# Am i trespassing if i am wading?



## Catfish keats (Jun 16, 2012)

There is a smaller dam in one of my fav stretches of river. The land around the dam is private property owned by someone and there house seems to be attached to the dam. That private property is fenced off by the road. I access river where it is not fenced off and there are no signs and i will be wading standing completely in the river it is shallow here. Is there such thing as private property on the water? Am i legally allowed to wade where on land there are no trespassing signs. Have done it once and ppl were very rude but unless its against the law i will continue to slay fish there


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## Wall I Chasr (Feb 15, 2012)

Rivers yes. Small streams ? Probably not legal. Must be navigable. Boat? Log must float. Always has been a touchy subject.

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## Catfish keats (Jun 16, 2012)

Im talking a river the size of the kzoo or grand. Dont want to give away what river.


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## Wall I Chasr (Feb 15, 2012)

Yes . Most rivers you are legal. Where you access them there could be an issue if you are using private land to access them. Public bridges should be legal for access.


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## jrv (Nov 11, 2008)

Catfish keats said:


> Im talking a river the size of the kzoo or grand. Dont want to give away what river.


I am guessing you are fine to fish it if it is that big. Has it ever been stocked?


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## Catfish keats (Jun 16, 2012)

Im sure it has been stocked. It is one of the two. Kalamazoo,Grand.


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## Catfish keats (Jun 16, 2012)

From what im gathering online it should be legal to wade the river. I was never out of the water. These people were mean. Threatening to call the police on me for trespassing and taking pictures of me made fishing really awkward. I would normally give in to these people but the fishing is just too good here. But if i am breaking the law i will by all means stop.


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

For all practical purposes you are fine wading/fishing. There are very few streams which have already been deemed non-navigable in Michigan. From my perspective, it is open to the public (navigable) until deemed non-navigable and closed. 


Posted from my iPhone.


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

Get a pair of those video glasses or like a go pro setup and film them. Amazing how fast people either shut up or leave when its you doing the filming.


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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/Water97e_142928_7.pdf


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## Roger That (Nov 18, 2010)

Sounds like a case of angler harrassment. I'd call a CO and inform them of your situation if it continues. I hate dickhead land owners

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## Catfish keats (Jun 16, 2012)

How would i contact a CO? I see it from there perspective but im really not bothering anyone i practice catch and release so im not hurting the population or anything. I can tell these people dont even fish anyway....


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## malainse (Sep 2, 2002)

Best thing is to use the link below and locate a CO from this area. Ask if it would be legal to fish in the area in question ? Make sure to get the CO's name if he/she states is OK...

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-42199-24666--,00.html


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## bass70003 (Feb 1, 2012)

We have ran into this issue lots of times on the rivers up north. People just don't expect to see people in "their" rivers. As long as you are wading in the river and are not on their land you are legal. If you are wading a river and there is a log jam or deep hole you have to get around you are legally able to walk on their land and immediately return to the water after you have cleared the obstacle. It just depends where you are accessing the water. As long as you are getting in the water on public land or have permission on private you are good to go. Just be careful people are complete idiots when it comes to things like this. Its like the fishing underneath people docks. People flip out but as long as your lures are not touching their dock then you are ok unless there is a local ordinance.


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## Wall I Chasr (Feb 15, 2012)

Catfish keats said:


> How would i contact a CO? I see it from there perspective but im really not bothering anyone i practice catch and release so im not hurting the population or anything. I can tell these people dont even fish anyway....


You got Dead Short's blessing CK ! You are good to go ! Just don't engage in unfriendly s#*t talking while you're fishing. Good Luck !

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## gatorman841 (Mar 4, 2010)

dead short said:


> For all practical purposes you are fine wading/fishing. There are very few streams which have already been deemed non-navigable in Michigan. From my perspective, it is open to the public (navigable) until deemed non-navigable and closed.
> 
> 
> Posted from my iPhone.


Actually thats the complete opposite they are very few rivers that are actually deemed navigable unless you are fishing in a city k-zoo for example. I went through same thing last year on my property which is on the kzoo river had people parking on the road and launching their canoe from the bridge and they were under same impression that most all sections of river are deemed navigable. After a call to the co/dnr/and county sherriff they went over the non and navigable portions of rivers and that was one of first things they told me is that most people are under impression that most all rivers are considered nav but in all truth most 80 percent are considered NON. There is very few sections of the kzoo that are considered nav. Most all areas are around decent size cities just because you can take a boat down the river dosent mean that the dnr have considered it navigable.


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## frenchriver1 (Jul 5, 2005)

Catfish keats said:


> ...I can tell these people dont even fish anyway....


Totally immaterial to the discussion or the law....


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

The DNR does not make legal determinations to decide whether or not a stream is navigable. I can offer an opinion if asked by a judge but my opinion is not legally binding. That is handled by the court system in Michigan by taking the criteria as established by law for a stream being determined navigable or non-navigable and carefully reviewing the history of the river in question and applying it to each stream in Michigan as they are brought into question. There is no blanket determination that fits every stream in every case.

That being said, there are very few streams in Michigan by total percentage of numbers that have been determined by law *either way*. "The public or private status of a stream to date has been determined only by judicial action. Streams where such determinations have been made represent only an
infinitesimal number of the state's total streams". 

"A navigable inland stream is (1) any stream declared navigable by the Michigan Supreme Court; (2) any stream included within the navigable waters of the United States by the U.S. Army Engineers for administration of the laws enacted by Congress for the protection and preservation of the navigable waters of the United States; (3) any stream which floated logs during the lumbering days, or a stream of sufficient capacity for the floating of logs in the condition which it generally appears by nature, notwithstanding there may be times when it becomes too dry or shallow for that purpose; (4) any stream having an average flow of approximately 41 cubic feet per second, an average width of some 30 feet, an average depth of about one foot, capacity of floatage during spring seasonal periods of high water limited to loose logs, ties and similar products, used for fishing by the public for an extended period of time, and stocked with fish by the state; (5) any stream which has been or is susceptible to navigation by boats for purposes of commerce or travel; (6) all streams meandered by the General Land Office Survey in the mid 1800's." - Check out this link and follow the river in question back from the mouth county by county - http://michigan.gov/dnr/1,4570,7-153-10371_14793-31058--,00.html. Check this out too - List of public fish stocking locations back to 1979 by county/location and date - http://www.michigandnr.com/fishstock/.

Who deserves the benefit of the doubt in each case of an undetermined stream? I think that if a landowner wants to restrict access to a piece of stream that is otherwise legally accessible and fishable by the public, it needs to be tested and determined in the courthouse, not the roadside.

This is not a blessing to just go out where ever you want and do what you want. A little knowledge goes a long way and some research should be done to figure out if a legal determination has been made and why or why not it was made if tested.

Don't forget, legal access is still required. You could have a 50 mile blue ribbon trout quality trout stream, but if you can't legally access it you can't legally fish it. Highway right of way at a bridge overpass is considered legal access as long as you stay within the right of way to do it.


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## GVDocHoliday (Sep 5, 2003)

bass70003 said:


> We have ran into this issue lots of times on the rivers up north. People just don't expect to see people in "their" rivers. As long as you are wading in the river and are not on their land you are legal. If you are wading a river and there is a log jam or deep hole you have to get around you are legally able to walk on their land and immediately return to the water after you have cleared the obstacle. It just depends where you are accessing the water. As long as you are getting in the water on public land or have permission on private you are good to go. Just be careful people are complete idiots when it comes to things like this. Its like the fishing underneath people docks. People flip out but as long as your lures are not touching their dock then you are ok unless there is a local ordinance.


Just x2'ing this. If they have a dam across the river, and you can't continue wading up/down stream safely, you are legally safe to get out of the river for the purposes of traversing around said obstacle. Navigable streams are public property, and all public has free access to the stream.


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Taken from the Public Waters booklet.....

"During the period 1837-1907, the Michigan Legislature by local act or general statute authorized construction on certain navigable streams provided that locks, sluices or slides were erected for the passage of boats, canoes, rafts or other watercraft and logs.

The following streams should, therefore, be deemed navigable in law downstream to
their mouths from the following indicated Legislature-authorized dam locations.​ 
Kalamazoo River, Section 26, T2S R6W, Calhoun County, Laws 1837"

Although it has been a long time, the Kalamazoo River has already been addressed, back into Calhoun County from the mouth. This is for the main portion of the river, not all the feeder creeks, streams, rivers that feed into it are necessarily automatically included. it may go back further than that location. Each one of those would probably need to be tested on their own merit.


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