# CWAC meeting Jan 14, 2023



## Rockydawg (Dec 8, 2019)

What did everyone think of the duck season dates this year? We aren't allowed to redistrict zones or anything this year, so please don't suggest that. Last meeting it was voted 17-1 to have the season openers stay the same for 3 seasons. 

2023 duck season opening dates would be consecutive weekends 
N Sept 30
M Oct 7
S Oct 14

2024 would be also consecutive weekends 
N Sept 28
M Oct 5
S Oct 12

There was a lot of discussion at last years meeting about the South zone having more December dates. The 2022 dates gave hunters an extra weekend in December, which seemed very popular. By 2024, the close date would be Dec 7, or back to only one December weekend. Keep in mind, we voted to move Saginaw Bay in to the middle zone a couple years ago to allow more December dates in the South zone, as Sag Bay freezes out very often before December. By 2024, if nothing is changed, we will be right back to only the first weekend in December for the South zone. 

Goose hunters in the SW lower asked for more January dates. We voted to split the last segment into some early January dates (Dec 31-Jan 8), and then reopen Feb 4-13. These dates seem to blend the wishes of the SE lower and SW lower guys about perfect, plus there is an extra opening day. Who doesn't love opening day?!


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## countryboy17 (Nov 25, 2010)

Saginaw bay needs more december dates. I dont think i ever remember not being able to find open water on the bay to hunt in the last 10 years before season closed. Maybe 2014 we froze out good but that was it. I think we can leave sag bay in the middle zone but open middle zone 2nd saturday of october and south zone the 3rd saturday. Still early enough to shoot brown ducks and the first push of divers and gives us another weekend to shoot mallards when it starts to get cold.

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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Would love two weekends in December in the south zone every year.


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## duckbuster2 (Aug 14, 2008)

Been hunting and keeping records for 56 years hunting Saginaw Bay doesn't need any days in december open the first weekend in october is PERFECT. The guys that want to hunt sea ducks hunt them on lake huron in the south zone. Open the south zone 2 weeks after the middle zone. They moved the Bay into the middle zone so it would open earlier then last year they moved it back a week so it wouldn't open on the first of October that was dumb.


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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

All the dates were fine by me. If we lose days due to low bird count take them from the front end.


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## countryboy17 (Nov 25, 2010)

From my records the first two weeks after opening day on the bay usually suck. Yeah you might have some good shoots on good weather days but other than that its stale birds until the first good push comes around holloween. Our falls have been on a warming trend with birds pushing down later so why would you open the season earlier? A big majority of the sea ducks are shot on the bay also. Not as many good access sites or areas to get out of the wind in zone 3 on huron to hunt them

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## Urriah (Jul 26, 2013)

Zone 3 hunter. I hunt managed areas, layout, boat blind and field hunt geese. I liked the dates this year and like the idea of opening on the 14th next year. I for sure wouldn't want to open the 21st. I could be convinced to open the 19th the following year, but I'd probably prefer the 12th. I'd rather have the sure days of October than gamble on being able to hunt later into December.


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## The Doob (Mar 4, 2007)

countryboy17 said:


> Saginaw bay needs more december dates. I dont think i ever remember not being able to find open water on the bay to hunt in the last 10 years before season closed. Maybe 2014 we froze out good but that was it. I think we can leave sag bay in the middle zone but open middle zone 2nd saturday of october and south zone the 3rd saturday. Still early enough to shoot brown ducks and the first push of divers and gives us another weekend to shoot mallards when it starts to get cold.
> Sent from my SM-G986U using MichiganSportsman mobile app
> 
> Could not disagree more! I thought this year's middle zone dates were fine. We had our most productive week of hunting from 10/16 to 10/23 - killed over 100 ducks that week with multiple days of 5 man limits of predominately divers. We did take a ton of oldsquaw late in the year but the limiting factor wasn't ice but more so the high winds. I am confident that the hunter participation numbers would be much greater from 10/8 to 10/15 than they would be from 12/4 to 12/11
> ...


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

IMO
speaking only for zone 3
parts of 7 decades experience
1. stop screwing with opening dates, changing the next year opener based upon mother nature in the past year
you will seldom get it perfect, so stop trying. keep it the same for 30 years - just not 2022 style, 2018-2021 dates
2. open October 6-11. 15th is too late, too much risk in December of losing managed area days. no risk at all in October - yes, possible suntans and mosquitos and few birds in October, but at least you can hunt. we came within a hair on our chinny chin from losing 20 days this year when it froze November 20. fortunately it got warmer before the ice got too thick. and this year the week prior was abnormally great ducky weather, the last week sucked for most who got bored and went in early. I hate being a Monday morning qb, but I am sure the majority of guys would go back and open on the 8th.


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

Jerry Lamb said:


> All the dates were fine by me. If we lose days due to low bird count take them from the front end.


jerry
so you want to go deep into December - spoken from a guy who called the season quits November 25? haha

please let us hunt on the front end, since you don't like breaking ice, loosening rivets on your boat, having to walk thru ice too thin jamming your shins and piercing your waders as you fall thru with every step, your dog breaking thru, having to walk 3 miles with a jet sled because the ice is too thick to get a boat thru....

what we had to go thru with the season set back a week - while you read the paper by your fireplace - haha

love
Don


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## birdshooter (Jan 7, 2006)

Urriah said:


> Zone 3 hunter. I hunt managed areas, layout, boat blind and field hunt geese. I liked the dates this year and like the idea of opening on the 14th next year. I for sure wouldn't want to open the 21st. I could be convinced to open the 19th the following year, but I'd probably prefer the 12th. I'd rather have the sure days of October than gamble on being able to hunt later into December.


This works for guys that don’t like the cold , I prefer the cold weather hunts for fields and water . I would love to see the season close let’s say around the start of deer season then get added to mid to end of December. But I know that equals lost opportunity for guys that can’t scout and rely on public lands .


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## propbuster (Mar 4, 2004)

Proposed opening days look good to me. I mostly hunt zone 2 and zone 3 managed areas.


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## Brougham (Jan 29, 2010)

Zone 2
2022 nailed it. Warm, cold, wind, rain, snow, sun , a great mix over the 60 days. I hunted big water, small water, Management Areas, private dry fields. Add teal and early goose and we had a great 90+day season. 
If your one dimensional, some weather periods are gonna suck for ya. Check the weather and adjust your gear. Basic Dude Stuff .


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## duckbuster2 (Aug 14, 2008)

countryboy17 said:


> From my records the first two weeks after opening day on the bay usually suck. Yeah you might have some good shoots on good weather days but other than that its stale birds until the first good push comes around holloween. Our falls have been on a warming trend with birds pushing down later so why would you open the season earlier? A big majority of the sea ducks are shot on the bay also. Not as many good access sites or areas to get out of the wind in zone 3 on huron to hunt them
> 
> Sent from my SM-G986U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


My records show for 50+ years that we kill ducks in all of October divers and puddlers and most of November till the marshes freeze up as long as the weather is good. The sea ducks late in the year are all wind dependent and no one I know hunts them on purpose.


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## chednhy (Feb 8, 2012)

Never mind. Merry Christmas 🎄


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## Fowl Play (Nov 30, 2014)

Dates are fine until someone can produce an 8-Ball that can predict whether that's a year away better than NOAA. Go when you can, adjust and make the best of it.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

only hunted z3. dates were awesome. mother nature sucked mid november but i'm ok with that gamble. next couple years dates look fine as well. 

only wish i have is i would much rather have a static opener like deer season set in stone.  i know its probably not the majority so i'm ok with that. too much worry about opening on weekends and such. just open it...guys will absolutely make whatever days those fall on work. think its way better for planning and such. for managed areas its a bonus as we get a full growing season and harvest time that we can schedule better with a fixed hard date. just my nit picks. don't read too much into them.


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## adam bomb (Feb 27, 2006)

Z2 hunter primarily in the Bay area although I hunt NW lower in beaver ponds and ag lands. I like the dates I have for my area taking into consideration the rest of the state as well as my personal interests. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I’d rather lose days to freeze up and know the ducks are through than stay warm and watch birds after season closed. I have a great work schedule that affords me a lot of days in the field in addition to my 21 days of vacation I took this year. Mother Nature absolutely ran the gambit of conditions. I had periods where it was a grind and others where they came so easily you had to fend them off. That’s just hunting. Some years you win, some years you lose on the migration. I consider myself an adaptive opportunistic hunter. I hunt teal, geese, wood ducks and local birds early, chase open water divers on the bay, do mixed bag shoreline hunts, hunt managed units. I hunt when it’s hot or breaking an inch of ice and everything in between……I love to hunt ducks period. And I love the variety of opportunity our state has to offer. And IMO, that’s the real gem of our state is the variety we are afforded for those willing to exploit it. I hunt the best opportunity that presents itself throughout the season.(ducks/geese/puddlers/divers/sea ducks). And if that’s not your approach then IMO, you are wasting a lot of days waiting for YOUR opportunity to come instead of chasing what’s available….or you better be prepared to put some miles on the truck to go pursue YOUR opportunity. The last day of my duck season we busted over an inch of ice and made the mallards pay. We worked our asses off. We saw a TON of ducks. I wouldn’t trade that hunt for shooting juvie brown ducks at first light in early October. Both are cool. But one will be etched in memory. The other will fade with time. 


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## Divers Down (Mar 31, 2008)

Urriah said:


> . I'd rather have the sure days of October than gamble on being able to hunt later into December.


Yes! Me too.
I’m not a mallard snob so I could care less about December. Give me a tennis shoe mixed bag limits in October any day. The best diver hunting is done by December anyway.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

The only thing I would be interested in experimenting with is a front end split rather than a tail end split. I thoroughly enjoy the tail end split But I would be very curious how the hunting would be with a front end split such as open for a week. close for a week. then run it straight though.


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## Brougham (Jan 29, 2010)

Z2 is looking good for a couple years under the current 60 day season:
Most of October.
All of November.
A few December days reg season.
Plus a couple split days in Dec.


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## Rockydawg (Dec 8, 2019)

craigrh13 said:


> It would be extremely hard to give up October Days for December days as the way things stand right now. When you look at every bit of data there is available it makes no sense. October is the highest participation month out of the whole season. There’s also far more birds around in October than December. So just keep that in mind. There’s not a snowballs chance in hell you would get any of the east side managed areas to give up even more october days for december days. A front end split would even be hard to push through. They want to maximize the meat of the migration and participation which is roughly middle october to middle december
> 
> I get many of you will say who cares about the managed areas but I don’t think a lot of you realize how much political pull and money they have to drive policy. It’s pure politics and they have the upper hand there. They have people in tight with people up above and they will for the most part get what they want over the average joe duck hunter.
> 
> ...



Your talking the East side data as far as peak migration. The SW migration peaks are in mid to late November for Muskegon (which is nearly in zone 2), and later than that for points further South. We have mostly local ducks around until right at the end of season-the best week for mallard and diver counts in 2022 was the week after zone 3 closed this year. Birds used to migrate on the West side around a peak of October 20 if you look at old data, but that peak has moved back at least a month the last 20 years.

The question is how do we set dates to please both sides of the lower zone? The West side guys who have commented here would really like to open for 2 weekends in October for swamp ducks, and then close for a couple weeks during late October to have more December weekends. Frankly, duck hunting in SW lower Michigan the last 2 weeks of October is a waste of time, unless there is an unusual storm. Those dates wouldn't work with peak migration on the East side at all according to any data I've seen. Given the 2 peninsulas, and the vast climate difference between Iron Mountain and Coldwater, we have to be the trickiest state to set dates in the country.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Rockydawg said:


> Your talking the East side data as far as peak migration. The SW migration peaks are in mid to late November for Muskegon (which is nearly in zone 2), and later than that for points further South. We have mostly local ducks around until right at the end of season-the best week for mallard and diver counts in 2022 was the week after zone 3 closed this year. Birds used to migrate on the West side around a peak of October 20 if you look at old data, but that peak has moved back at least a month the last 20 years.
> 
> The question is how do we set dates to please both sides of the lower zone? The West side guys who have commented here would really like to open for 2 weekends in October for swamp ducks, and then close for a couple weeks during late October to have more December weekends. Frankly, duck hunting in SW lower Michigan the last 2 weeks of October is a waste of time, unless there is an unusual storm. Those dates wouldn't work with peak migration on the East side at all according to any data I've seen. Given the 2 peninsulas, and the vast climate difference between Iron Mountain and Coldwater, we have to be the trickiest state to set dates in the country.



you said "how do we set dates to please both sides of the lower zone". you do realize we just kicked bay out of z3 and then just had the latest z3 october start that i can remember in the last 20 years....and then ran 2 weeks into december if you keep pushing for more....yer gonna lose east side lobby completely and be all by yourself on the next go around. I felt bad for my southwest friends who wanted more later dates...and agreed with them somewhat. we just had it....and i keep seeing complaints. i can't go to bat for ya no more if those season dates weren't enough because we are absolutely gambling to lose a lot of hunt time by opening that late.

and the bottom line is more hunting happens NOT in the sw part of the state. you can't kick that elephant out of the room. sag bay, LSC and 4 managed area occupy a giant portion of yer zone. cutting days from those regions when prime time migration is hapening? well good luck.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Rockydawg said:


> Your talking the East side data as far as peak migration. The SW migration peaks are in mid to late November for Muskegon (which is nearly in zone 2), and later than that for points further South. We have mostly local ducks around until right at the end of season-the best week for mallard and diver counts in 2022 was the week after zone 3 closed this year. Birds used to migrate on the West side around a peak of October 20 if you look at old data, but that peak has moved back at least a month the last 20 years.
> 
> The question is how do we set dates to please both sides of the lower zone? The West side guys who have commented here would really like to open for 2 weekends in October for swamp ducks, and then close for a couple weeks during late October to have more December weekends. Frankly, duck hunting in SW lower Michigan the last 2 weeks of October is a waste of time, unless there is an unusual storm. Those dates wouldn't work with peak migration on the East side at all according to any data I've seen. Given the 2 peninsulas, and the vast climate difference between Iron Mountain and Coldwater, we have to be the trickiest state to set dates in the country.


I completely understand what you’re saying but you guys are in the minority. The number of SW or even west side hunters pales in comparison to the east side. Z3 opened mid October this year. That’s honestly the latest you’re probably gonna ever see…..for the time being. The feds set the rules on what we are allowed as far as zones and splits. If it gets lobbied for 4 zones then you lose the splits.


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## cruiseplanner1 (Aug 6, 2012)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> you said "how do we set dates to please both sides of the lower zone". you do realize we just kicked bay out of z3 and then just had the latest z3 october start that i can remember in the last 20 years....and then ran 2 weeks into december if you keep pushing for more....yer gonna lose east side lobby completely and be all by yourself on the next go around. I felt bad for my southwest friends who wanted more later dates...and agreed with them somewhat. we just had it....and i keep seeing complaints. i can't go to bat for ya no more if those season dates weren't enough because we are absolutely gambling to lose a lot of hunt time by opening that late.
> 
> and the bottom line is more hunting happens NOT in the sw part of the state. you can't kick that elephant out of the room. sag bay, LSC and 4 managed area occupy a giant portion of yer zone. cutting days from those regions when prime time migration is hapening? well good luck.


You hit the nail on the head. Not sure if any of these commenters have been to a CWAC meeting or even contacted their CWAC rep but there is so much compromise going on with the zones and the seasons and we also have to work within the Flyway guidelines regarding splits zones dates etc. The meeting and dates set last January were very good and matched the data provided by the DNR . That would be on hunters choice for dates success, bird migrations and other stats that the group uses.


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## twoteal (Jul 22, 2001)

lol, Seasons.


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## TNL (Jan 6, 2005)

Actually, you can tell the season has ended by this annual thread, lol. I hold no illusions that the DNR will frontload the split. Too many tennis shoe hunters. The framework has been set for the next coupe years by the Feds, so we have to operate within those parameters.

If I thought a 45 day or 30 day for a couple seasons would help the resource bounce back, I’d be all for it. However, correlation does not imply causation. Habitat, CRP loss, avian flu, et al probably need to be looked at a little closer too. DU hasn’t been very vocal that I’ve seen on the matter.

If we look at pure hunter participation numbers, I think a later 4th west or southwest zone would have more hunter participation (hunters could travel SW much the same way they do for the UP opener) than a two day split where the majority of hunters are frozen out. Also, the abundance of offshore squaws would extend that opportunity. Something to think about the next time we confer with the Feds.


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## Zorba (Jan 24, 2007)

I might take some flak for this but, I’m going to say it anyway. Historically, a 60 day season in Michigan is a long season. And, a 3 zone system makes it more like a 74 day season state wide. It’s been a long time now since we had a restricted season of some kind. Birds migrating right past us, birds staging later in December, birds “urbanizing”. Teal season. I guess my point is, do the birds get any rest? Maybe leaving some staging birds alone is a good thing. Maybe the season is too long. These birds are banged at a lot. And, their not stupid. Maybe a shorter season would bring a higher quality hunt. Something to think about while we are talking about seasons.
There was a whole thread devoted to the mackinaw bridge asking when the birds showed up. Well, I think it’s funny that as soon as the season ended up here the birds showed up.


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## Rockydawg (Dec 8, 2019)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> you said "how do we set dates to please both sides of the lower zone". you do realize we just kicked bay out of z3 and then just had the latest z3 october start that i can remember in the last 20 years....and then ran 2 weeks into december if you keep pushing for more....yer gonna lose east side lobby completely and be all by yourself on the next go around. I felt bad for my southwest friends who wanted more later dates...and agreed with them somewhat. we just had it....and i keep seeing complaints. i can't go to bat for ya no more if those season dates weren't enough because we are absolutely gambling to lose a lot of hunt time by opening that late.
> 
> and the bottom line is more hunting happens NOT in the sw part of the state. you can't kick that elephant out of the room. sag bay, LSC and 4 managed area occupy a giant portion of yer zone. cutting days from those regions when prime time migration is hapening? well good luck.


For the record, I'm not trying to lobby for anything later than this year. We got 2 December weekends, and I think the dates pleased the majority in the South zone. 

My objective is to collect the opinions of the guys in my SW lower region, and represent those concerns at the CWAC meeting. The SE reps are striving to do the same, and they should vote accordingly.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Zorba said:


> I might take some flak for this but, I’m going to say it anyway. Historically, a 60 day season in Michigan is a long season. And, a 3 zone system makes it more like a 74 day season state wide. It’s been a long time now since we had a restricted season of some kind. Birds migrating right past us, birds staging later in December, birds “urbanizing”. Teal season. I guess my point is, do the birds get any rest? Maybe leaving some staging birds alone is a good thing. Maybe the season is too long. These birds are banged at a lot. And, their not stupid. Maybe a shorter season would bring a higher quality hunt. Something to think about while we are talking about seasons.
> There was a whole thread devoted to the mackinaw bridge asking when the birds showed up. Well, I think it’s funny that as soon as the season ended up here the birds showed up.


It’s been proven over and over again that people are more concerned with opportunity than quality.

In 2020 when the managed areas went to 1 draw a day the quality of the hunt was soooo much better. However, it did lessen opportunity. People chose opportunity. I personally choose quality and I am with you on what you’re saying but we seem to be in the minority.


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## Rockydawg (Dec 8, 2019)

TNL said:


> Actually, you can tell the season has ended by this annual thread, lol. I hold no illusions that the DNR will frontload the split. Too many tennis shoe hunters. The framework has been set for the next coupe years by the Feds, so we have to operate within those parameters.
> 
> If I thought a 45 day or 30 day for a couple seasons would help the resource bounce back, I’d be all for it. However, correlation does not imply causation. Habitat, CRP loss, avian flu, et al probably need to be looked at a little closer too. DU hasn’t been very vocal that I’ve seen on the matter.
> 
> If we look at pure hunter participation numbers, I think a later 4th west or southwest zone would have more hunter participation (hunters could travel SW much the same way they do for the UP opener) than a two day split where the majority of hunters are frozen out. Also, the abundance of offshore squaws would extend that opportunity. Something to think about the next time we confer with the Feds.


Very thoughtful response. Since I started waterfowl hunting in 1984, we've seen the addition of early goose season, teal season, and youth (and now veterans) weekend all before "opening day". These are the "good old days" right now, but the pressure might be too much on the resource. Our quarry isn't white tailed deer that can't fly away. Too much pressure, and we can force a migration to points south before opening day ever happens. If you've hunted a while, you know that opening day is a non event compared with how it was in the 80s and early 90s. 

The biologists tell us that a 30 or 45 day season likely wouldn't help numbers, as hunter harvest is only a small part of overall mortality. Its hard to imagine that we had a 30 day season with a limit of 3 ducks (2 mallards) when numbers were so much higher, but now that bird numbers have dropped, we have a 60 day 6 duck limit. 

I agree on the 4th zone. That would give us 4 opening dates if your willing to travel. The downside is that under the federal framework, we would then lose any splits. The splits are very popular in hunter surveys, but I agree that most waterfowlers are frozen out for the January dates. I proposed making the split earlier (like 2020 season), which gives the SW lower guys an extra December weekend, but most of the reps felt strongly that hunters like the holiday weekend dates.


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## hmrx (May 4, 2012)

Why don't we address the elephant in the room. The issue is not the 300K ducks we shoot here its the overall distribution of harvest. Some states kill many times more ducks than Michigan in this flyway. Mostly in the south but MN and WI are up there too. We make all these adjustments to the seasons here and we are always about the same harvest. If reductions in season lengths and bag limits are in order the feds should look elsewhere, other than Michigan. I'm dreaming if I think AR and LA would loose days and not the north. Always been this way. Never will change.

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## Outdoor Gal (Sep 9, 2008)

My personal opinion on season dates. They were pretty decent to start with. This year worked fine too. The majority of my hunting is at Shiawassee and Ionia/Montcalm County. I also hunt southern Kent/Northern Barry Co. Michigan is an extremely diverse state when it comes to setting season dates, our weather is all over the place, and we're never going to please everyone, especially those in the far corners of the state. Some years we freeze out early, some years it stays warm until the end. The key is being versatile and being able to change your style of hunting to match conditions. I really enjoy hunting the late split but am starting to think that a 4th SW zone may be the answer.

I 100% do not want to lose any November days for hunting. November is always my best month of hunting. Meanwhile October is usually pretty good for geese and yes, I like shooting wood ducks. Behind teal they are the tastiest ducks out there. Also, October is a great time to take the kids out. Go a head and call me a tennis shoe hunter. I'm also out there when the temps are freezing and hunted until the end this year. Just my personal opinion. No matter what the dates are, people will always complain.


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## gaustin (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm going to need to agree with Outdoor Gal, no matter with what dates are chosen people are going to complain. The weather was odd this season. Stayed warm to long then the storm in November might have pushed birds south. Nov 10th Sunny and 75 in Battle Creek, Nov 23rd a 2500 acre in Barry county was locked up. Actually saw a guy ice fishing.
I would entertain the idea of no splits and a 4th zone.


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## Outdoor Gal (Sep 9, 2008)

Side note. I wasn't a big fan of the extra week break between Z2 and Z3 opener. From my house I heard three different groups hunting the week before Z3 opener. On what would be the traditional opening day. It definitely messed the birds up. And yes. I called the RAP line but don't know if the DNR caught anyone.


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## Zorba (Jan 24, 2007)

Outdoor Gal said:


> Side note. I wasn't a big fan of the extra week break between Z2 and Z3 opener. From my house I heard three different groups hunting the week before Z3 opener. On what would be the traditional opening day. It definitely messed the birds up. And yes. I called the RAP line but don't know if the DNR caught anyone.


You mean between Z1 and Z2?


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## Outdoor Gal (Sep 9, 2008)

Zorba said:


> You mean between Z1 and Z2?



Whoops. Yeah Z1 and Z2. I didn't hunt the Zone 2 opener this year, got that mixed up. 

Morons down by me in Zone 3, started hunted the week before the Zone 3 opener. They just assumed the opening dates followed the old pattern. Can't change morons though.


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## Urriah (Jul 26, 2013)

hmrx said:


> Why don't we address the elephant in the room. The issue is not the 300K ducks we shoot here its the overall distribution of harvest. Some states kill many times more ducks than Michigan in this flyway. Mostly in the south but MN and WI are up there too. We make all these adjustments to the seasons here and we are always about the same harvest. If reductions in season lengths and bag limits are in order the feds should look elsewhere, other than Michigan. I'm dreaming if I think AR and LA would loose days and not the north. Always been this way. Never will change.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


The feds give the same framework to all the states in the flyway. Meaning all Mississippi flyway states are 60 day/6 duck, 30 day/3 duck, whatever. It would be absolutely unprecedented for them to allow northern states to hunt 60 days but southern states only 45 or 30. Not saying it can't ever happen, but it's extremely unlikely. A dream as you say.

I would like to see the great lakes states be made into our own 'flyway' for federal purposes. You can add that to the list of dreams.


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## propbuster (Mar 4, 2004)

Not a big fan of the splits. Especially on a holiday weekend in zone 3. As some others have said, I am really NOT a fan of all the Hunting Days, before Opening Day, like Teal, Goose, youth, veteran etc. At a minimum, it would be nice if there was a bigger break between all of the other hunts and Opening Day. The Opening days of years ago were sooooo much better than more recent Opening Days.


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## Brougham (Jan 29, 2010)

I'd hate to sacrifice goose and teal opportunities for a "good opening day" .

People talk about taking breaks and resting birds, yet we still have 14 hunts a week at Fish Pt, Nayanquing Pt, and Shiawassee.

I love the options I have now in Sept, Oct, Nov, Dec, because I know it could be 30 days/3 ducks again if things go to shat. 

I've lived through that duck great depression. Don't want to see it again.


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## hoody25 (Jun 9, 2007)

I will say living in the berrien county the dates for this year where great mix of early and late. 

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## Take'm (Dec 6, 2011)

Rockydawg said:


> What did everyone think of the duck season dates this year? We aren't allowed to redistrict zones or anything this year, so please don't suggest that. Last meeting it was voted 17-1 to have the season openers stay the same for 3 seasons.
> 
> 2023 duck season opening dates would be consecutive weekends
> N Sept 30
> ...


To answer the original question from my perspective (hunting primarily around Jackson, Washtenaw, Livingston, Saginaw, Bay counties), I liked the dates this year as they were. I enjoyed my early season hunting in the marshes and managed areas but pivoted later in the season to fields. You can't hunt a corn field in October as they haven't cut the corn yet, typically not until early to mid November. Thus I enjoyed having the season extend into December to allow more time to hunt the fields once the corn came off.

If future seasons split ducks from goose seasons, then I'm a bit more indifferent as I'd hope that I could continue to pursue geese late in the season in the fields and ducks more in the water.


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## Rockydawg (Dec 8, 2019)

Trying to bump this back to the top, as we have the pre CWAC meetings this week, and the actual meeting next Saturday. The adaptive harvest management model calls for a liberal 60 day season again with a 6 duck limit. This is not subject to change (from what I understand), unless some crazy event happens this spring that would cause the feds to step in and make a change. Below are the options we will vote on. Please comment only on available options, not changing zones or anything else that isn't up for consideration this year. The comments so far have been well thought out and much appreciated!

Teal either Sept 1-16 or Sept 1-10. Shorter season would reduce pressure prior to youth/veterans hunt

Youth/veterans Sept 16-17

Regular duck
North Sept 30-Nov 28 or Sept 30-Nov 26 and Dec 2-3. 2nd option gives a split and more weekend days.
Middle Oct 7-Dec 3 and Dec 16-17. Consistent with 2022, which everybody seemed happy with. 
South Oct 14-Dec 10 and Dec 30-31. Consistent with 2022. Essentially gives 3 December weekends, out of 5 possible weekends, and the South zone would be open all but the first weekend in Oct. If those dates don't make you happy, I don't know what would. 

Goose (limit 5 per day)
North Sept 1-Dec 16 
Middle Sept 1-Dec 16 or Sept -30 and Oct 7-Dec 22. 2nd option lines up with duck season dates 
South Sept 1-30, Oct 14-Dec 10, Dec 30-31and Jan 27-Feb 12 or same regular season on the front end but Dec 30-Jan 7 and Feb 3-Feb 12 for late season dates. Option 2 gives more early January dates and is consistent with 2022.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Stick with the status quo. 9/1-9/16 teal, same youth/veteran, south zone dates look great.


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## BumpRacerX (Dec 31, 2009)

Those dates look great. If this were Congress, I'd abstain courteously or vote "present".


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## cvg3 (Nov 27, 2015)

I agree with Craig, keep everything the same, the youth I took out this year were not effected by the teal hunters being in the marsh they still shot at enough big ducks to keep them and the shell manufacturers happy


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## duckbuster2 (Aug 14, 2008)

Teal September 2nd to the 10 thats 2 weekend's.The regular duck seasons the north zone last Saturday in September the middle zone the first Saturday in October and the south zone the third Saturday in October would be great and keep it that way for ever as long as the season is 60 days.


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## cvg3 (Nov 27, 2015)

It is my understanding that Early Teal has no effect on the days in the Regular season so why give up days that you can be afield


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## adam bomb (Feb 27, 2006)

Rockydawg said:


> Trying to bump this back to the top, as we have the pre CWAC meetings this week, and the actual meeting next Saturday. The adaptive harvest management model calls for a liberal 60 day season again with a 6 duck limit. This is not subject to change (from what I understand), unless some crazy event happens this spring that would cause the feds to step in and make a change. Below are the options we will vote on. Please comment only on available options, not changing zones or anything else that isn't up for consideration this year. The comments so far have been well thought out and much appreciated!
> 
> Teal either Sept 1-16 or Sept 1-10. Shorter season would reduce pressure prior to youth/veterans hunt
> 
> ...


Teal Sept 1-16….I see way more teal at the tail end of season.(personally I wish it started second week of September)

Regular Duck season I like the dates we have. 

Option 2 for geese. Sept 1-30, then Oct 7-Dec 22. 


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## adam bomb (Feb 27, 2006)

cvg3 said:


> It is my understanding that Early Teal has no effect on the days in the Regular season so why give up days that you can be afield


Agreed. Seems dumb to vote against opportunity. 


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## Fowl Play (Nov 30, 2014)

Southern zone dates look great!


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## birdshooter (Jan 7, 2006)

Rockydawg said:


> Trying to bump this back to the top, as we have the pre CWAC meetings this week, and the actual meeting next Saturday. The adaptive harvest management model calls for a liberal 60 day season again with a 6 duck limit. This is not subject to change (from what I understand), unless some crazy event happens this spring that would cause the feds to step in and make a change. Below are the options we will vote on. Please comment only on available options, not changing zones or anything else that isn't up for consideration this year. The comments so far have been well thought out and much appreciated!
> 
> Teal either Sept 1-16 or Sept 1-10. Shorter season would reduce pressure prior to youth/veterans hunt
> 
> ...


Teal September 1-16 and geese December 30 -Jan 7 south zone of course. Mirror this season please .


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

How do the west coast states with 107 day seasons not burn things out?


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## Rockydawg (Dec 8, 2019)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> How do the west coast states with 107 day seasons not burn things out?


I don't think there are a lot of waterfowl hunters out there.


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## adam bomb (Feb 27, 2006)

Rockydawg said:


> I don't think there are a lot of waterfowl hunters out there.








TOP 30 STATES WITH MOST ACTIVE DUCK HUNTERS IN 2019 | Realtree B2B


In August 2019, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service released its report detailing national migratory game bird hunter activity and harvest during 2017-18 hunting seasons.




business.realtree.com






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## Rockydawg (Dec 8, 2019)

adam bomb said:


> TOP 30 STATES WITH MOST ACTIVE DUCK HUNTERS IN 2019 | Realtree B2B
> 
> 
> In August 2019, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service released its report detailing national migratory game bird hunter activity and harvest during 2017-18 hunting seasons.
> ...


California has 51,000 duck hunters for a state with 40 million people. You would expect 4 times the number of hunters that Michigan has, given 4 times the population, or more than 150,000 hunters. Oregon and Washington have surprisingly high numbers! Since you are good at finding this stuff, what was the high for waterfowl license sales in Michigan? We have roughly 38,000 licenses sold the last few years, but I think we used to have 3 times that number. I can't find the data for some reason.


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## adam bomb (Feb 27, 2006)

Rockydawg said:


> California has 51,000 duck hunters for a state with 40 million people. You would expect 4 times the number of hunters that Michigan has, given 4 times the population, or more than 150,000 hunters. Oregon and Washington have surprisingly high numbers! Since you are good at finding this stuff, what was the high for waterfowl license sales in Michigan? We have roughly 38,000 licenses sold the last few years, but I think we used to have 3 times that number. I can't find the data for some reason.




Although I agree, they still had 20,000 more license sales than we had and they killed north of 1,000,000 ducks that season. A whopping 800,000 more ducks than we killed in our state that year!!!! I would certainly think to some degree that instills some sort of pressure on those birds. There was probably 3,000,000 rounds of ammunition fired to kill those 1,000,000 waterfowl!!! Incredible stuff!!! 

I’m not that good lol…I can’t find beyond 2018 report unfortunately. 


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## Chez29 (May 11, 2008)

Rockydawg said:


> Teal either Sept 1-16 or Sept 1-10. Shorter season would reduce pressure prior to youth/veterans hunt
> 
> Youth/veterans Sept 16-17
> 
> ...


Sigh back to the 45 day season for the north zone, well 90 percent of it anyway. December 2-3 lol. Sure I’ll drill an extra hole in the ice and toss a decoy in it


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Also factor in that large portions of Washington and Oregon are mountainous and forested.

Access is a huge issue in CA. My uncle retired to Sacramento and pay stupid money to run his upland dogs on a couple private clubs. Waterfowl land is worse.

TN kinda surprised me gotta be the rivers and reservoirs on the west end of the state, as the plateau my daughter is on in south central TN has nothing for waterfowl.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Three shells per dead duck? They must be way more proficient than my Fish Point neighbors.


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