# Shooting birds for another hunters bag



## Zink (Jan 9, 2006)

I'm usally go with the dog after a good volley and four or five birds are dead dying or crippled and if it's still swimming i kill it, then let the dog retrieve. on the way in i have five birds in my possesion that i know i didn't knock down, but i may have killed if they were all cripples are all those birds mine. I don't think so. I say it's who knocks them out of the air.

How about if my dog brings back a partners bird and i bite it's head to kill it, is that my bird cause i killed it. 

Personally i think theres too many lose ends in the law


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## lwingwatcher (Mar 25, 2001)

Zink said:


> I say it's who knocks them out of the air.



How ya ever gonna do that unless you hunt by yourself? A loner flew in, three guys shot and everybody got it of course---whaddaya gonna do, divide by three?

In the bag man...only way to make it enforceable....


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Most times we know who shot what because we'll take turns shooting.

We always start out shooting individual limits, but if someone can't hit th broad side of a barn, at some point in the morning it turns into a shared bag. We had that happend second day this year. I had a limit in the first hour, cousin one half hour after that and sat for 2 more hours watching the other 2 in our party miss bird after bird. Well, after 2 hours of twiddling thumbs, it became a group bag. Back when I was younger and not as good of a shot, in that type situation, if I had 5 to go and everyone was waiting on me, I'd have them give me my 3 shots on each bird and then it was free game. At this point in my life, I really don't care if I shoot 4 and my buddy takes up the slack. We really try though to stagger birds, I'm up till I get one, then someone else is up till they get one etc... so it is rare that we don't end up with individual limits.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Rudi's Dad said:


> Do you or would you shoot other hunters birds for their limit?
> Is it ethical?
> 
> For a fact, you are breaking the law if you shoot someone elses _migratory birds (woodcock, ducks, geese, dove)._
> ...


seems to me you should of just posted the real question here. do you violate or not? no point to this thread really.


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## sprigdog (Jan 29, 2004)

weve got a bunch of outlaws:lol: :lol: 

seriously look at most outdoor shows filmed in Arkansas or Alberta or inbetween.
How many times have your heard "hey Bubba, we better do a count". "yep, we need 2 more is it". next flock comes in, 4 people shoot at the 2 birds coming in. limit. 

think how insane it would be in Canada with a limit of 8 geese and you have 8 hunters in the blinds. I'm sure everyone shooting has their birds, no one shot 9 or 7 everyone shot exactly 8. basically, get to 64 and stop, and you better be quick with the shotgun. 

with all that said: everyone in my blind/layout know's exactly what bird they shot and i have never had to chase a cripple with a tender 
I have had the FEDS check me after coming out of a NWR with 2 other guys and we had all the birds on one strap. Let me tell you, that is a big, big no-no. we were educated harshly on the fact each person must carry their own bird or at the minimum seperate the birds on the strap so each has it's own "section". Now i personally could beat that one to death and how silly it is. For example, by the letter of the law, if you are in a tender boat and you have 3 guys, each persons birds SHOULD be in seperate stacks.
FEDS are very anal, i have never caught grief from a State CO.


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## sprigdog (Jan 29, 2004)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> seems to me you should of just posted the real question here. do you violate or not?


yeah that too, there is merit in the thread though. just admit if your an outlaw or not.


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## Hammerin' Hank (Nov 1, 2005)

sprigdog said:


> yeah that too, there is merit in the thread though. just admit if your an outlaw or not.


 A few grey areas, yes. Many more completely black and white!!


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

A shared bag is a violation, so yes on occassion we violate. The law is the law, but I think the spirit of it is to keep guys from brining people out just so you can personally shoot more birds. If your all hunting and your waiting on one guy to shoot his last bird and he says "Let's just drop the next one and get our of here", well to me that is totally different then having that guy come out just so you can shoot his limit. Still illegal, but before anyone starts pointing fingers, so is going 56mph in a 55mph zone, but it is not the same as running a red light. Illegal yes, on par with other infractions, no.

That's alright though, in another couple months, I'll hopefully be doing a lot of what would be considered violating in the U.S., shooting 20 ducks a day, using lead shot, baiting birds and I might not even be using a plug :yikes: When we get back, I'll start a new "Best Retriever" thread and compare Golden's with Chessie's with Labs with Argentinian bird boys:lol:


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

all i know is i when i'm heading in i make sure everyone knows what they shot and have them close by to them with no questions left to be interpeted by a CO.


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## Lil' Tanker (Jan 9, 2002)

according to the law...

How about this situation:

there are 5 guys goose hunting = 10 birds
one guy decides to call only and not to shoot that day so he doesn't even take a gun. The c.o. shows up when they are picking up and the group has 10 birds. Two guys could have shared one gun and each shot there limits, 1 guy could have shot both limits.

Will there be any tickets written??
I do not see where any rules have been broken.

It could be an ethical argument but it seems ethical to me to let a first timer shoot my limit also and have the time of there life. 

my 2 cents


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## stacemo (Oct 23, 2003)

I asked a CO what happens if I shoot at a flock of geese (limit 2/day) and accidently drop three with two shots. He said you should collect your two and leave the third laying there. I asked if another hunter could go and pick up that goose and he said sure. Of course, that may be one CO's interpretation of the law.


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## Rudi's Dad (May 4, 2004)

Well, because I was asking both for upland and migratory, (woodcock, dove, and ducks) I was hoping this would stay in the upland section.


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## sprigdog (Jan 29, 2004)

Lil' Tanker said:


> according to the law...
> 
> How about this situation:
> 
> ...


sounds to me like you have 4 guys hunting and one guy calling.
i dont know where it says one gun=one hunter and I dont know how much interaction you've had with CO's but there not stupid.
The CO will handle in one of 3 ways
1. write you a ticket and have you spend your hard earned money and time to prove him wrong
2. Or become on his watch list, i've seen it before. Everytime you come out of the field he'll be waiting for you and commenting on each persons shot etc.
he'll let you know that you possibly got a free one, and your being watched.
3. he's reading this right now, and you've been tagged


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

The one I still don't like, is that you can't have 2 guns for you in the boat. I can see that they might think you load 2 guns with 3 shells, unload one on a bird and grab the other giving you a potential at more shots per bird, but come on! It is a rare occassion that I get all 3 off let alone have time to get 3 off and grab another gun. The only time that happens is on bills when you pop off 3 shells and they are still milling around you.

Why can't you have one uncased loaded gun and the other cased and in the gun box????? I'd love to bring the 410 out more, but if the birds are flaring wide, don't want to have to just sit and watch because 40yds is too far for 410.

I guess the solution would be to get a 30" barreled browning o/u beater and use my 410 tubes in it. Then I could always just pound out the tubes if I needed to.


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## sprigdog (Jan 29, 2004)

Rudi's Dad said:


> Well, because I was asking both for upland and migratory, (woodcock, dove, and ducks) I was hoping this would stay in the upland section.


us waterfowlers are pretty focused on one thing, and it dont eat aspen buds:lol:


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## lwingwatcher (Mar 25, 2001)

TSS Caddis said:


> The one I still don't like, is that you can't have 2 guns for you in the boat.


No kidding, I really want to try a smoke pole in the layout but, it would sure be a hindrance in the tender. Gonna have to be on a day with three guys I guess.


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## Rudi's Dad (May 4, 2004)

Well, using a 410 with non tox shot might be a stretch. I never saw non tox in 410.


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

stacemo said:


> I asked a CO what happens if I shoot at a flock of geese (limit 2/day) and accidently drop three with two shots. He said you should collect your two and leave the third laying there. I asked if another hunter could go and pick up that goose and he said sure. Of course, that may be one CO's interpretation of the law.


That actually happened to my nephew this year.


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## bartley (Jun 29, 2004)

im gonna keep my mouth shut on this one. i typed out a big long answer but i deleated it.
~chris~


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Lil' Tanker said:


> according to the law...
> 
> How about this situation:
> 
> ...


this ones easy. caller takes a gun and doesn't load it. again, this is an interpetation deal.....don't leave it open for discussion by the CO and you won't have an issue. Like said above, he may treat it differently than another CO and that could be good or could be bad.


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## dodge7 (Jan 18, 2005)

Theoretically, yeap, no problems here


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## evil_eye75 (May 27, 2004)

I thought that if the season was 60 days long, and you can shoot 6 birds per day = 360 total birds possible. So if I miss shots most of the season, I could shoot my 360 birds on the one good day I shoot accurately. And if I know somebody with a license, I can shoot thier limit too. :lol:


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## dodge7 (Jan 18, 2005)

evil_eye75 said:


> I thought that if the season was 60 days long, and you can shoot 6 birds per day = 360 total birds possible. So if I miss shots most of the season, I could shoot my 360 birds on the one good day I shoot accurately. And if I know somebody with a license, I can shoot thier limit too. :lol:


 
No theres a plan


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## SWMIH20FOWLER (Nov 17, 2005)

Well there is obviously a whole slew of different opinions, and when it comes down to it, it will depend on the story of the CO versus you, and because they are out doing their job, I hope that the CO's story would win, as long as he/she is an honest person, not just looking to write a ticket. As far as having two guns in a boat, that will never change in MI....A story from the local marsh....a guy made a run up to the boat launch to drop off the gear before they picked up the dekes, he took the three guns, shell boxes, etc......CO was at boat launch and wrote a ticket for having three guns for one hunter.....that would make me furious, but I no longer have more than my gun in the boat if I am doing anything.

When it comes down to it, it will be the CO's perception of what has gone on, and they will sit and watch for hours.....trust me on that one 

The best thing to do is always be legal, if you make a mistake just remember Big Brother is always watching!

That being said, yes, I am sure we have all shot ducks for someone before.


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## Hammerin' Hank (Nov 1, 2005)

SWMIH20FOWLER said:


> That being said, yes, I am sure :tsk: some people have shot ducks for someone before.


I fixed that for you. Wanted to make sure your brush was a little smaller so as not to include me or those I hunt with.


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## lwingwatcher (Mar 25, 2001)

Hammerin' Hank said:


> I fixed that for you. Wanted to make sure your brush was a little smaller so as not to include me or those I hunt with.


Oh my word...and you know that those you hunt with have never shot a duck that somebody else included in their bag or vice versa....gimme a break. Nobody that has hunted any amount of time can possibly know that for sure...unless only one hunter ever shot at the birds each and every time. But, you know that for sure eh????? Me thinks you might wanna shorten up your brush stroke as well....


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## Hammerin' Hank (Nov 1, 2005)

lwingwatcher said:


> Oh my word...and you know that those you hunt with have never shot a duck that somebody else included in their bag or vice versa....gimme a break. Nobody that has hunted any amount of time can possibly know that for sure...unless only one hunter ever shot at the birds each and every time. But, you know that for sure eh????? Me thinks you might wanna shorten up your brush stroke as well....


Yes, I can absolutely, 100% guarantee, without reservations say that no one I hunt with has ever shot a duck/goose over their limit or shot a bird for someone else. How can I say this, well.....we all just started waterfowl hunting  and haven't been anywhere nears a one man limit let alone having to worry about others'. But I can also say none of us has ever shot a phez that would fall into the grey area either and we've taken quite a few of those birds. It's a personal limit and we abide by that, whether it's waterfowl, upland, deer, bear or turkey. I'm not trying to start an arguement with you, just starting a fact about our hunting circle. To each their own, just rinse the brush before taking another swash .


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## Bow Hunter Brandon (Jan 15, 2003)

I can say that I have been on a malard hunt before in late season. Shooting was excelent and we were taking our time shooting drakes. I had 3 drakes in the bag my "name protected" had a hen and two drakes in the bag. We had two birds drop in straight down out of the fog. I ID them both wisper they are both drakes and I shot the one on the right he shoots the one on the left. They hit the water and .... I mean I shot the HEN on the left and he shot the drake on the right even though I was standing on the right and he on the left  

Here is what I have realized in my short time waterfowling. Limit days arent reached by on final "lucky" bird. If its a day for a limit it comes failrly easy. So if your getting near a limit take your time. Who cares if your budy cant hit them let him keep trying its fun to tease him anyway :evil: 

Im not opposed to putting down my gun and letting a kid take some shots for a while either though. Ill just fill out my limit swating his cripples... Would that work???


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Rudi's Dad said:


> Well, using a 410 with non tox shot might be a stretch. I never saw non tox in 410.


They back Bismuth factory and you can also reload it. I have 6 boxes at home right now.


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## Merimac (Jan 17, 2006)

I have never taken more than my limit or helped anyone with there limit. I am also on the Ted nuggent diet I only eat meat that i kill. There is a bit of responsibility we all must take... Not finding ways to skirt the law. It is about doing what is best for all hunters and the hunted. Just because timmy does it, does not mean you have to be an idiot too. These are living animals not just target practice... Be responsible.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Hammerin' Hank said:


> ....But I can also say none of us has ever shot a phez that would fall into the grey area either and we've taken quite a few of those birds. It's a personal limit and we abide by that...


Man Hank, them's some pretty strong contentions. I grew up pheasant hunting in the 60's when we actually had some birds, and it was common for several to go up at once even without a dog :yikes: After all of those hunts in the "glory years", I can say that there were many times when we were not 100% sure who actually killed the bird because often when a rooster went up, at least two guns fired. If it were a literal "tie", one of the hunters claimed the bird....happened all the time. If that hunter reached his two bird limit (which rarely happened even in those days), he emptied his gun. Since we rarely had to worry about reaching limits, when a bird went up, it was a "party shoot". And I hunted enough upland, with enough different people, to know that that was the rule, not the exception....right or wrong. 

So I'm not challenging your statement here Hank, just saying you're a better man than me (and a heck of a lot of other hunters too :evil: ).


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## Hammerin' Hank (Nov 1, 2005)

just ducky said:


> So I'm not challenging your statement here Hank, just saying you're a better man than me (and a heck of a lot of other hunters too :evil: ).


No, No, No. By no means am I a better man, can't make that judgement based on things here, maybe just different with different views. I am far from being a "Pedestal" type hunter, I'm sure I may have fallen into other grey areas somewhere, sometime, maybe still do, but it's not something I would do knowingly. As for the phez, I can honestly tell you we claim what we hit, if there's a tie, every sports guy knows it goes to the runner (meaning the first one to the bird  ). It goes to whomever dropped it and then it's added to their own bag. Once you reach your limit your gun is to be unloaded and you now become another "bird dog". We tend to spread out and know which zone we should be shooting. For us it's not about killing the bird, it's about working the dogs so we're not in so much of a hurry to knock the birds down, which lends itself to less shooting. Case in point, we bought four melanistic phez, five chukar and five quail last weekend. Myself, my daughter and a buddy began training. I used four shells, all on the quail, hit two . My daughter used only a handful. My buddy shot all the phez, most of the chukar and a few quail. Birds always flew his way, we didn't have many shots.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Merimac said:


> I have never taken more than my limit or helped anyone with there limit. I am also on the Ted nuggent diet I only eat meat that i kill. There is a bit of responsibility we all must take... Not finding ways to skirt the law. It is about doing what is best for all hunters and the hunted. Just because timmy does it, does not mean you have to be an idiot too. These are living animals not just target practice... Be responsible.


Well, I hardly see someone letting a hunting partner that already has 6 shoot one of their birds for them as trying to "skirt" the law. If I was trying to "skirt" the law, I'd have my wife buy a license and have her come to just sit in the boat so I could shoot her limit to.

I'm sure you don't "skirt" the law and go 56mph in a 55mph zone do you. In my mind a far more serious infraction then letting someone shoot one of your ducks.


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## cupped-n-locked (Jan 5, 2006)

My personal opinion is that what's the difference who shoots what ducks or geese as long as the limits are abided by - just my two cents - not arguing - but I can say that I have hunted with a DNR CO and had a discussion about this very subject and he was pretty firm on the rule that no one is supposed to shoot the ducks in your bag but yourself.


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## sprigdog (Jan 29, 2004)

TSS Caddis said:


> If I was trying to "skirt" the law, I'd have my wife buy a license and have her come to just sit in the boat so I could shoot her limit to.QUOTE]
> 
> no duck is worth: "do we have to leave so early" "it's too cold out here" "are we almost done yet" "wheres the nearest bathroom" "how come you dont have milk and sugar with the coffee in the thermos" "cant you teach the dog to shake off before it gets in the boat" "ohh, thats gross, poor duck, what it ever do to you?" "why do you insist on shooting these things, you know i hate how they taste" "so you buy a 10 thousand dollar boat and just park it the weeds" "how come that gun is so loud" and my very favorite, "hurry up and lets go, Dr Phil starts in an hour":lol:


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## stacemo (Oct 23, 2003)

sprigdog said:


> TSS Caddis said:
> 
> 
> > If I was trying to "skirt" the law, I'd have my wife buy a license and have her come to just sit in the boat so I could shoot her limit to.
> ...


Oh you got laughing on this one. Way back when my buddy's wife started going out with us. My buddy shoots a duck and puts it in the boat. Wife is in the boat. 10 minutes later. "Its alive! Its staring at me! How come you did not kill this thing properly! You don't know what you are doing!"


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## Hammerin' Hank (Nov 1, 2005)

TSS Caddis said:


> Well, I hardly see someone letting a hunting partner that already has 6 shoot one of their birds for them as trying to "skirt" the law. If I was trying to "skirt" the law, I'd have my wife buy a license and have her come to just sit in the boat so I could shoot her limit to.
> 
> I'm sure you don't "skirt" the law and go 56mph in a 55mph zone do you. In my mind a far more serious infraction then letting someone shoot one of your ducks.


But where do you stop? If you're willing to let someone shoot your limit, will you then shoot over both limits if you can get away with it? Why not? If "slightly" breaking one rule it's just as easy to move on to the next. Why is one rule sacred (overall limits) and not others (individual limits)? Slippery Slope, I know, but you get the picture. You used a Red Herring, Poisoning the Well type position. If I drive 56 mph, then I can't possibly be trusted to have not shoot over my limit. Or by not coming to a complete stop I'm no better than someone who only steals a little bit of money. It's the old "apples and oranges", which can lead this thread down the crapper. Nobody wins and poster's get irritated, possibly missing out on meeting good people by thinking the other guy is a jerk. I agree to disagree  .


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

sprigdog said:


> TSS Caddis said:
> 
> 
> > If I was trying to "skirt" the law, I'd have my wife buy a license and have her come to just sit in the boat so I could shoot her limit to.QUOTE]
> ...


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## Merimac (Jan 17, 2006)

TSS Caddis said:


> Well, I hardly see someone letting a hunting partner that already has 6 shoot one of their birds for them as trying to "skirt" the law. If I was trying to "skirt" the law, I'd have my wife buy a license and have her come to just sit in the boat so I could shoot her limit to.
> 
> I'm sure you don't "skirt" the law and go 56mph in a 55mph zone do you. In my mind a far more serious infraction then letting someone shoot one of your ducks.


Yeah right and shooting 1 deer out of season is ok? You Better say no. Because it is the same thing. You have a limit so that is all you are allowed. How about the guys who catch 40 blue gill... Driving 1 mph is not the same. Most likely driving a mph over isnt even some thing you were even aware of. Poaching is!
When you go trap shooting do you go an collect the ones you miss so they will throw them again? When you go to a restaurant do you not buy any thing and wait for someone to leave food on there plate so that you can have it? It is about doing the right thing...

I think you missed the point.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

My equine loving wife has seen a Zebra gutted, so it doesn't worry me much to take her hunting. Although, duck hunting is totally different. Sort of like the first time she went steelhead fishing with me and hooked one. While it is still 20' from the boat, whe kept wondering why I wasn't netting it:lol: I can just see ducks flying by at 100yds and having her question why I don't just shoot them 



Hammerin' Hank said:


> But where do you stop? If you're willing to let someone shoot your limit, will you then shoot over both limits if you can get away with it? Why not? If "slightly" breaking one rule it's just as easy to move on to the next. Why is one rule sacred (overall limits) and not others (individual limits)? Slippery Slope, I know, but you get the picture. You used a Red Herring, Poisoning the Well type position. If I drive 56 mph, then I can't possibly be trusted to have not shoot over my limit. Or by not coming to a complete stop I'm no better than someone who only steals a little bit of money. It's the old "apples and oranges", which can lead this thread down the crapper. Nobody wins and poster's get irritated, possibly missing out on meeting good people by thinking the other guy is a jerk. I agree to disagree  .


Taking that line, you could equate to going 56mph to, "what's next murder".

If the birds are flying and there is one guy with me 12 birds are dieing, the 12 dead ducks don't care who shot them, they are dead. We do some video taping, so there are times where it's, "nah, you shoot my last bird, I'll keep taping". Hardly a slippery slope.


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## lwingwatcher (Mar 25, 2001)

dodge7 said:


> Say we each got three birds, but I'm carrying all six, think a C.O., would say anything


Hell, downriver you might get cited for having too many cans in possession....


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