# Over kill rifle size?



## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

Used a 30-30 most of my life with good results as i hunted mostly wooded areas with shots less than 75 yds .After planting a food plot with the end over 125 yds i went with a 30-06 .Maybe slightly overkill but its good for 50 -100 yds without any adjustments .30-30 drops several inches from 50-100 yds .


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## Forest Meister (Mar 7, 2010)

Lever4ever said:


> My old uncle, WW-1 veteran, which I had the pleasure to hunt with when he was in his later years, never hunted with any other gun than a 20-gauge (Stoeger), that included hunting Michigan black-bear. He was teaching me the art of stalk hunting for deer, when all of a sudden a dear ran across in-front of us at dead out full blast run, my uncle leveled off and dropped that deer with one shot. hit it in the neck just behind the cheek and was mad as hell, because he missed the head (waste of meat in his eyes). If I remember right he was 86 years young at the time. Hit what your aiming at kills deer.





7mmsendero said:


> I really don’t like switching guns, and I hunt out west at times. The 7mm rem magnum has served me well. I know that gun inside and out, and in the agricultural area I hunt you can see 500-600 yards in at least one direction from any of our rifle blinds. So there’s that.


There is an old saying that goes like this: Beware the man who hunts with only one gun, he knows how to use it. FM


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Thirty pointer said:


> Used a 30-30 most of my life with good results as i hunted mostly wooded areas with shots less than 75 yds .After planting a food plot with the end over 125 yds i went with a 30-06 .Maybe slightly overkill but its good for 50 -100 yds without any adjustments .30-30 drops several inches from 50-100 yds .


The .350 Legend out performs the 30-30 at those ranges.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Ft-lbs of energy required to kill deer sized animals is between 800 & 1,000 at the distance you expect to make your kill. Bullet construction makes a difference as does placement. The more energy the more meat damage that can occur. With that said I’m glad I live in a country where I can use whatever caliber I want to. I’ve killed deer with bullets that range in size from .222” to .503” without needing a follow up shot. I only need one rifle to get it done but where’s the fun in that? Shooting and hunting are my favorite hobbies aside from getting ready to do either.

This years choices will be 308 Winchester and 50 caliber muzzleloader. Both rifles were purchased used and were on my bucket list acquisitions. If I fill tags with those I’ll move on to other choices. A man has to know his limitations but rifle calibers is not one of them as long as you have room for another gun safe.


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## BulldogOutlander (Oct 1, 2019)

I've used 3 different rifles in taking deer.. a .243, a 300mag, and a 30-06.. The 300mag just wastes too much meat in the front shoulder(s) in my opinion. the 30-06 i've only taken one deer with, and i think it did pretty well (didn't butcher that one).. my .243 has taken the most deer and i love it. I'm a big guy, and my cousin jokes when i bust out that .243.. But i love it.. shoots straight, shoots fast, and its lighter than sheet. 

I shoot all of my deer behind the front shoulder and do my best to miss the heart. I've had deer run 100+ yards, and i've had deer drop right in their tracks. The most any has ran with the 300mag has been maybe 30 yards? the 30-06 he ran a total of 100 yards, and my .243 has done both. I had a doe run 120 yards on me with no lungs, and i've had a 6 point drop in his tracks after hitting one lung and heart. Had another 6 point go 20 yards after hitting all 3 from 10 yards away! However the .243 saves the most meat out of the 3


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

7mmsendero said:


> I really don’t like switching guns, and I hunt out west at times. The 7mm rem magnum has served me well. I know that gun inside and out, and in the agricultural area I hunt you can see 500-600 yards in at least one direction from any of our rifle blinds. So there’s that.


I don't own a 7mm mag, but a few buddies do and I don't notice a huge difference in that and my 30.06 as far as recoil. I don't notice a lot between my wife .270 and my .06 either. 

A 7mm mag is to a 300win mag as a .270 is to a 30.06. About the same energy that is just a little flatter shooting. Which I think I would take over the little bit extra energy, as they both are ample. 

I have really grown to love the .270 and the 7mm mag. If I was going for a little extra range, I would settle on the 7mm mag just for the increased accuracy alone. 

My next rifle will be a 6.5 Creedmor for field hunting. Those things are just impressive when it comes to ballistics.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

I think it is basically personal preference. I would never think about hunting a deer with an AR-15 in .223, but I have never seen how that turns out or tried it. I could easily change my mind after being a witness to it, just in my mind right now it doesn't seem right. 

I have seen deer shot in a field with a 22-250 that is absolutely incredible damage. Not much for a blood trail, but you can watch them drop in the field so that isn't so important and the damage to the insides of the deer is devastating. So a .223 could be ok.

My mom put up her 30-30 she used for years for a .243 and never looked back. That is the opposite direction that I would have gone, but she loves it and it works, so it worked out perfect. 

I know guys that won't use anything other than a 300 win mag, which I think is more than needed and probably more to stroke the ego a bit, but they love it and it works. So who am I to judge. 

I think just get what you can afford, like to shoot and most importantly you a GOOD with. And have a ball.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

I used a 375H&H for two seasons.
It was overkill. Rolled deer like tumble weeds.
Wasted plenty of meat if a bone was hit.
$80 ammunition and blown up deer. Bad mix for me.


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

Meat damage is more a function of bullet construction than caliber.

My 7mm Rem Mag with 140 grain Nosler Partitions doesn’t waste any more meat than my 7mm-08 with 144 grain Browning BXR rounds.

I’ve killed well over 100 deer with my 7 Mag over the years, but my Model Seven SS/HS in 7mm-08 weighs less than 7 lbs with scope, sling, and five shells in it. Sweet little gun for shooting inside 300 yards.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

Gamekeeper said:


> I used a 375H&H for two seasons.
> It was overkill. Rolled deer like tumble weeds.
> Wasted plenty of meat if a bone was hit.
> $80 ammunition and blown up deer. Bad mix for me.


My Uncle uses his 45/70 and shoots in the top of the front shoulders. He says, "I hate tracking and I'd rather lose a few pounds of meat than all the pounds of meat!"

I can see the logic, even if it ain't my style. Lol


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

jiggin is livin said:


> My Uncle uses his 45/70 and shoots in the top of the front shoulders. He says, "I hate tracking and I'd rather lose a few pounds of meat than all the pounds of meat!"
> 
> I can see the logic, even if it ain't my style. Lol


There are a number of European calibers that You run into on various nice rifles, and many of them are designed for shooting moose in countries where you can't own unlimited firearms, or for shooting medium sized African animals. A 9.3x72, or 375H&H magnum, Are both Big heavy animal calibers That have had up and down Levels of popularity and come in stunningly beautiful rifles.

Big bear, moose, Kudu, Elephant, Rhino, Hippo, calibers are overkill for whitetail deer.

I shot a Mouflon with a 9.3 double rifle, and it seemed to fly down the mountainside. Rough recovery.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

jatc said:


> Meat damage is more a function of bullet construction than caliber.


Yup. And of course placement. Going through both shoulders wastes more than holding back a couple inches, no matter the caliber or even bullet construction. Personal preferences vary when it comes down to tracking a few yards vs dropping them.


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## FullQuiver (May 2, 2006)

jatc said:


> I’d rather see guys using a .300 Weatherby for deer than a .223 any day of the week.


I'd rather have a guy that shot his 223 like a boss than a guy who couldn't shoot his 300 mag for shinola.. I've seen a lot more of the latter than the former..


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

sureshot006 said:


> Yup. And of course placement. Going through both shoulders wastes more than holding back a couple inches, no matter the caliber or even bullet construction. Personal preferences vary when it comes down to tracking a few yards vs dropping them.


When you are dumping 4000ft/lbs energy into a 125lb animal, it leaves a mark.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Gamekeeper said:


> When you are dumping 4000ft/lbs energy into a 125lb animal, it leaves a mark.


But you're not with pass through.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

sureshot006 said:


> But you're not with pass through.


Wound channel with the 375 was about 4"dia opposite side, internals extra juicy. I think I used 300 gr bullets at maybe 2800? Mouflon was ruined from one side through the front opposite shoulder. Like a blast wound.
I'm not recoil sensitive, but all the big bores do push back.

I'm all for using whatever is legal. 
I think overkill probably is best quantified as the rifle you hesitate to squeeze the trigger. So it's individual.


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

sureshot006 said:


> But you're not with pass through.


Like I said, I’ve had a lot of experience killing deer with my 7 Mag and Partitions. Typically hold about 4” behind shoulder on a broadside deer. Usually two holes and the lungs are literally turned into soup. Only place the deer goes is straight down with zero loss of meat.

Anything other than broadside I aim for opposite shoulder. Guess I’m in Jiggin’s Uncle’s camp. Rather lose a few pounds of meat and not track than have to worry about how far he is going to go.

I guess the other factor is that I can afford to be picky on doe kills and I won’t shoot if it isn’t perfectly broadside. If it is a buck of the caliber I’m looking to kill with my rifle, than being worried about a few pounds of jerky meat is the very last thing on my mind and I will take whatever lethal shot I can get.


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## FullQuiver (May 2, 2006)

I have killed deer with 300 Win mag to 223 here in MI and never felt undergunned, perhaps overgunned. That 300 mag was a lot of weight and kick for nothing. Deer weren't any more dead.. I've lost 1 deer in all of my years hunting with a rifle I can tell you for certain it wouldn't have mattered what caliber that I used, the outcome would have been the same.. It was operator error..

Shot selection and shot placement make far more of the determination of outcome than Cartridge headstamp in deer hunting..

Perhaps it's because I am more of an archery guy and have had to learn to get ideal shot scenarios or pass. Deer are like anything else. Put a round through both lungs and they're dead..


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## FullQuiver (May 2, 2006)

BTW I will be hunting opening morning with my 223. Hopefully not too much gun..


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

jatc said:


> Meat damage is more a function of bullet construction than caliber.
> 
> My 7mm Rem Mag with 140 grain Nosler Partitions doesn’t waste any more meat than my 7mm-08 with 144 grain Browning BXR rounds.
> 
> I’ve killed well over 100 deer with my 7 Mag over the years, but my Model Seven SS/HS in 7mm-08 weighs less than 7 lbs with scope, sling, and five shells in it. Sweet little gun for shooting inside 300 yards.


7mm-08 is the next caliber I wanna pick up, just trying to decide which rifle to get it in. Probably will become my main hunting rifle here in michigan and any outta state trips I may take.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Former grunt said:


> 7mm-08 is the next caliber I wanna pick up, just trying to decide which rifle to get it in. Probably will become my main hunting rifle here in michigan and any outta state trips I may take.


It's an ideal deer rifle, IMO.


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

FullQuiver said:


> BTW I will be hunting opening morning with my 223. Hopefully not too much gun..


What ammo are you using? I've only shot one deer with a 223 and it was on a deer drive and I was in some thick stuff so a 30 yards neck shot dropped her. Believe it was 62 grain hornady hunting ammo.


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## Cork Dust (Nov 26, 2012)

jatc said:


> Like I said, I’ve had a lot of experience killing deer with my 7 Mag and Partitions. Typically hold about 4” behind shoulder on a broadside deer. Usually two holes and the lungs are literally turned into soup. Only place the deer goes is straight down with zero loss of meat.
> 
> Anything other than broadside I aim for opposite shoulder. Guess I’m in Jiggin’s Uncle’s camp. Rather lose a few pounds of meat and not track than have to worry about how far he is going to go.
> 
> I guess the other factor is that I can afford to be picky on doe kills and I won’t shoot if it isn’t perfectly broadside. If it is a buck of the caliber I’m looking to kill with my rifle, than being worried about a few pounds of jerky meat is the very last thing on my mind and I will take whatever lethal shot I can get.


I hunt in thick mixed conifer/hardwoods, mostly around beaver flowages and in lowlands.

I would encourage you to consider a shot point right at the base of the deer's neck, just in front of the chest shoulders. A shot placed here will generally take a deer off the feet outside fifty yards. If you spend time watching deer they can move the heads and necks around and this spot remains stationary minimizing risk of a poor hit. I have shot through bucks hit behind their shoulder at ranges inside 50 yards with a full pass through and not much mushrooming or bullet impact energy transfer which resulted in each of these three bucks walking off of trotting off to fall out of sight. One fell down a steep hill to a stream be nearly 80 feet. Getting him out of there was not fun. Each of them was shot with no snow on the ground and each bled very little until their pleural cavity filled with blood. Two of them I could follow in my scope. Both of these deer were indicating that they were heavily hit with their tails down and had a very deliberate gait, but not wobbly as the slowly moved away from my stand site. All moved downhill after the shot, but never offered a follow-up shot opportunity.

The only time this shot has ever failed was on a nice 140s nine point that walked up to my stand behind me. Initially, the sound of him breaking through the crusty snow was bouncing off the cedar swamp edge I was watching where three trails converged. When I finally realized he was immediately behind me, I slid off my seat and dialed my scope down to 2X and waited. Very quickly I realized that my knees were starting to lock-up in that position and I might not be able to stand quickly, so I rose as slowly as I could, popped my safety off and slow eased my rifle up to my shoulder and popped out from behind the huge maple that was the back corner of the triangular woody debris pile. My scope was completely full of deer face and antler bases! I switched to his shoulder, only to discover I had to shoot through a down tree route to make that shot and came back-up to his neck base and fired when the crosshairs settled on it. He took off at light speed and I initially thought: how did I miss a chip-shot, followed by a massive adrenaline rush. I jumped up on my chair and tried to get on him as he bounded away....Nope! After calming down and replaying events a couple times I stepped over the stand an pace the shot distance...roughly 21 feet! That was when I realized that there was likely three to four inches discrepancy between my rifle bore and my scope crosshairs at that distance. I completely missed hitting bone and the bullet never expanded. I could see the bloody tissue and hair from the bullet hit near his front legs tracks where I shot him, After a long wait I eventually found him dead in his bed on a small knoll of aspen slash near a beaver pond about a mile away from stand by his track route, but only about 3/8s of a mile "as the crow flies". Luckily it didn't snow that night while I waited to keep tracking him.


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

sureshot006 said:


> It's an ideal deer rifle, IMO.


I'm just struggling to figure out which rifle I wanna get it in, want a different model of rifle than something I already have. Leaning towards the browning hell's canyon speed.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Former grunt said:


> I'm just struggling to figure out which rifle I wanna get it in, want a different model of rifle than something I already have. Leaning towards the browning hell's canyon speed.


My grandfather had a browning medallion. Very, very nice rifle.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

Former grunt said:


> I'm just struggling to figure out which rifle I wanna get it in, want a different model of rifle than something I already have. Leaning towards the browning hell's canyon speed.


There are so many different ways to purchase that cartridge in a rifle, that The only advice I could give you is Take your time and take a look at every rifle that's out there.You may find a Wood stock to your Or something in Kevlar. Long barrel, or Scout style. Etc. Etc.


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

Former grunt said:


> I'm just struggling to figure out which rifle I wanna get it in, want a different model of rifle than something I already have. Leaning towards the browning hell's canyon speed.


That Browning is a really nice gun. That was my second choice. The only reason I went with the Model Seven over that gun was barrel length. I find a shorter barrel is more convenient in my blinds, and since that was going to be the primary use for the new gun that’s the direction I went. I’m sure I would have been very happy either way though.


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## huxIIIhammer (Feb 28, 2005)

Thats how my dad taught me to shoot.


CDN1 said:


> No such thing as overkill but there is over gunned.
> 
> From a recoil perspective a lot of guys that are shooting heavy calibers are the worst " flinchers" I know of. If you want to test your flinch response. Head to the range and let you friend load your rifle or maybe not load your rifle while you're not watching. Then you shoot it.
> 
> ...


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

I've only owned one browning and it was in 308, great shooter but sold it to find a different 308 build. I've handled the hell's canyon a couple of times in the gun stores just never bought one. Most of the guns in the arsenal have synthetic stocks. The hell's canyon checks off alot of boxes in what I want but if I don't go that route I might buy a remington adl or sps and use it for the donor build. I have looked at the model sevens and they look pretty slick.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

Former grunt said:


> I've only owned one browning and it was in 308, great shooter but sold it to find a different 308 build. I've handled the hell's canyon a couple of times in the gun stores just never bought one. Most of the guns in the arsenal have synthetic stocks. The hell's canyon checks off alot of boxes in what I want but if I don't go that route I might buy a remington adl or sps and use it for the donor build. I have looked at the model sevens and they look pretty slick.


7's are great for smaller shooters.
It's Remington's take on a Mauser.


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

Use what you are comfortable with and can consistently shoot accurately. Every shot I take it is with the intent to plant that animal in its tracks. My first trip out west I bought a browning 7mm. After that trip my wife bought me a weatherby 300. Depends on my mood will depend on which gun I use for deer hunting I don’t think you can ever have to big a gun. It’s just personal preference


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## U.P.Grouse Chaser (Dec 27, 2018)

I been trying to match my rifles to where I am sitting . For opening day I use either a 25-06
or a 308 Both were built by my dad in the 70's The 25-06 is built on a Springfield 03A3 action. The 308 is built on a Mauser 98 action . Later in the season when I am out sitting on bluff tops I take my 300 WSM . The one spot overlooks a marsh, You can get and honest 350 yard shot . What I am lacking is a short range rifle. I've found a couple spots while running the dog this fall that were clear cut 20-25 years ago, the aspen is 4 to 6inches in diameter if you stretch it you might get a 50 yard shot. The aspen come off a ridge top and runs right to the edge of a cedar swamp with a grown over skid trail where they meet . I'd like to find Ruger Lever action or autoloader in 44 mag and put a peep sight on it . My eyes aren't good enough to shoot traditional iron sights any more.


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## baseballdad (May 28, 2017)

I appreciate all the feedback and I wasn't trying to take away from anyone's choices.

I am just looking at the average Deer kill in Michigan.

I know I have personally Have had Wall hangers in open fields that I would have loved to have a rifle with some reach on it but it was in Zone 3.

Again this is just my opinion but I think there are a lot of hunters out there who think they need the biggest caliber to take the shot but they are also the ones who cant hit the broad side of a barn past 40 yards because of recoil. 

I know I was there once 20 years ago when I had a synthetic Stock 7mm, that think Kicked like a Raped Mule and I sold it after that season to a friend, and he still uses it to this day.

With all my shoulder issues I have, recoil is a issue now So I will stick with a .50 cal muzzle loader and maybe next year look in to a .350 legend as I only hunt the zone 3 area


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

baseballdad said:


> I appreciate all the feedback and I wasn't trying to take away from anyone's choices.
> 
> I am just looking at the average Deer kill in Michigan.
> 
> ...


Consider a dedicated Savage 20ga slug gun. Or gas auto slug gun.


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## NonTypicalCPA (Feb 16, 2007)

I used the trusty Remington 870 in 12 gauge for many years until the straight wall cartridge became legal. That law has cost me some cash. Started with the 450 and just sold that and bought a 350. We’ll see how it performs this year. I don’t mind a blood trail, so I always shoot for bullet placement right behind the shoulder blades if possible.


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

My main problem is outta of all my guns only my 300 win mag or 338 lapua is a hunting rifle. Unless I'm sitting my creek spot I carry my remington 700p in 308 cause I never know where I'm gonna end up sitting and I know more than likely a shot over a 100 yards ain't happening, hence why I'm getting a 7mm-08, I definitely agree though there are people out there shooting more gun then they need or feasible could shoot. I bought the lapua cause I've always wanted one and the 300 win mag for future out west hunts but hell randy newberg shoots everything with a 308.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

U.P.Grouse Chaser said:


> I been trying to match my rifles to where I am sitting . For opening day I use either a 25-06
> or a 308 Both were built by my dad in the 70's The 25-06 is built on a Springfield 03A3 action. The 308 is built on a Mauser 98 action . Later in the season when I am out sitting on bluff tops I take my 300 WSM . The one spot overlooks a marsh, You can get and honest 350 yard shot . What I am lacking is a short range rifle. I've found a couple spots while running the dog this fall that were clear cut 20-25 years ago, the aspen is 4 to 6inches in diameter if you stretch it you might get a 50 yard shot. The aspen come off a ridge top and runs right to the edge of a cedar swamp with a grown over skid trail where they meet . I'd like to find Ruger Lever action or autoloader in 44 mag and put a peep sight on it . My eyes aren't good enough to shoot traditional iron sights any more.


That is why I keep my 30-30's. I don't use them much and have shot many deer inside 80yds with my 30.06. I have some 220 grain ammo I use for that. Kicks a bit, but it lays the smack down. But, besides the sentimental value of the 30-30 and my sheer love for the round, we keep them for the thicker shorter range hunts. I even use my 12ga with the rifled barrel from time to time for things like that.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Good ol 30-30. Gramps called it the pumpkin slinger.


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## Lumberman (Sep 27, 2010)

I'll be using my new .300 Weatherby and I'm not sure there's anywhere I can shoot more then 75 yards from my stand.....


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## Dynrat (Jun 13, 2003)

I shoot a 300 WinMag which my dad refers to as the blunderbuss. Is it overkill...? Maybe, but it was a matter of circumstances. I had been shooting an old Remington 740 30-06 for years. It had constant extraction/feed issues and after several trips to the shop I decided it wasn't worth messing with anymore. So I needed new rifle. At the same time my father-in-law had invited me to go on a caribou hunt the next year and the guide had certain rifle recommendations. Couple his recommendations with what was running a good deal I went with my Savage in 300 WM to kill too birds with one stone. Father-in-law ended up having a heart attack the next spring (he's fine now, but no longer hunts) so we never made the trip, but I did start using in Michigan for deer. I now own a fairly large collection of long guns, but love my 300. It shoots flat at any distance I'll encounter in the Michigan woods, knocks them down on the spot about 80% of the time, and most importantly I am comfortable with it at just about any range.


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

Former grunt said:


> I'm just struggling to figure out which rifle I wanna get it in, want a different model of rifle than something I already have. Leaning towards the browning hell's canyon speed.


I am partial to the Browning BAR and would recommend you get the Hells Canyon Speed


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## FullQuiver (May 2, 2006)

Former grunt said:


> What ammo are you using? I've only shot one deer with a 223 and it was on a deer drive and I was in some thick stuff so a 30 yards neck shot dropped her. Believe it was 62 grain hornady hunting ammo.


I reload everything I hunt with. That having been said I use a 62gr bonded Speer bullet.. Loaded with AA 2520 powder in LC cases and I get 3050 fps at the muzzle. This load shoots bug holes out of my bolt gun and hits like a hammer. I get great terminal performance and blood trails when I have needed them.. I typically get 1- 1 1/2 inch exit holes.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

NonTypicalCPA said:


> I used the trusty Remington 870 in 12 gauge for many years until the straight wall cartridge became legal. That law has cost me some cash. Started with the 450 and just sold that and bought a 350. We’ll see how it performs this year. I don’t mind a blood trail, so I always shoot for bullet placement right behind the shoulder blades if possible.


You won’t be disappointed. I love my 357 Maximum and use at times in zone 1 & 2. Inside 200 yards is a dead deer and all I use are crossed sticks.


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## retired dundo (Jul 21, 2015)

I shoot HR 12gauge slug gun I love it .Probaly would not if I did lot of walking still hunting it is real heavy.But have no problem shooting 160 yards.


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## stevieblunder (Feb 27, 2011)

I would have to consider anything over a 30-06 to be overkill on a whitetail. Amazingly if a guy was to choose that caliber he could hunt and kill at distance any large game animal in North America. Ammo can be bought off the shelf in different grains to kill anything from a pronghorn to a grizzly.


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## SPITFIRE (Feb 10, 2005)

So my 300 RUM might be overkill?  
30-06 is what I use most when I rifle hunt for deer, though I do want to get 6.5 creed just because.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

FullQuiver said:


> I reload everything I hunt with. That having been said I use a 62gr bonded Speer bullet.. Loaded with AA 2520 powder in LC cases and I get 3050 fps at the muzzle. This load shoots bug holes out of my bolt gun and hits like a hammer. I get great terminal performance and blood trails when I have needed them.. I typically get 1- 1 1/2 inch exit holes.


Pew!


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## 50incher (Aug 23, 2011)

If I could only have 2 rifles here in MI. it would be a 22 mag & a 30 06....for the world I'd like a 300 win mag, even in Alaska....over kill is kinda getting to semantics for me, no such thing, lol....dead is dead....wasted meat ? yeap a consideration....

My uncle who owned a gun shop for 30+ years & reloaded, loved the 350 Rem mag for MI...."brush busters" was the thought, lol....308 though is what he used mostly, lol....both very accurate calibers....

Over kill ? yes....there is a reason why the more dangerous the game you hunt, the caliber goes up....for less than dangerous, shoot what you are most comfortable with & can shoot accurately above all....here in MI I bounce between my favorite 06 and a sweet 270 for deer....

Nephew, a gun nut mind you, uses a 300 blackout ?....this year a 6.5 Creedmore is the choice....& brother has dropped nice deer with a 243, I always wanted one in that caliber....follow the law for caliber & be familiar with your rifle ='s meat on the table....


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## bigbuckmiddaugh (Oct 16, 2005)

sureshot006 said:


> If I could have only 2 rifles I'd probably have 22mag and 300 win mag. That means I'd be using a 300 win mag for deer. Overkill, yes. But the deer is dead so...


Oh man! 300 win mag! My favorite! I’ve shot doe in shoulder at 45 yds...still ran! Most drop though.
I also like mossberg 295, makes the 300 fell nice!


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

Waif said:


> Pew!
> View attachment 600623


Wish my at still could be switched to pew pew pew or full pew.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

SPITFIRE said:


> So my 300 RUM might be overkill?
> 30-06 is what I use most when I rifle hunt for deer, though I do want to get 6.5 creed just because.


Yes!! I want a creed so bad. 

I have only shot a 300 RUM once. I see no reason to punish myself like that again unless it’s an elk, on the other mountain. Lol


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Former grunt said:


> Wish my at still could be switched to pew pew pew or full pew.



There's a guy....I consider his location to be in the next county but within a mile, maybe , who burns through hundreds and hundreds and...of rounds when I'm hunting early firearm.. Well ,when I'm not too and at other times as well; that I always envision being knee deep in spent brass. And sitting in a shortwalled empty ammo can pillbox.
Don't know if he uses a crank , or has an agile finger.

That's fine with me. But would drive me to distraction if he was next door.
I smile when he gets going. Pitying his neighbors if they're sitting out hunting. For their sake , not the deers.
And no ,the deer around me don't worry about it.


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## TheLionsFan (Dec 20, 2011)

I've always said, you can't be more dead than dead. You definitely dont want to be underpowered, but for deer thats pretty hard to be underpowered when you have proper shot placement. Whatever you can shoot the most accurate and comfortable is best IMO. But again, an elephant gun cant make a deer more dead than a .243 

My .270 has worked great for me, but I wouldn't feel overpowered if I went to a .300 Win Mag.


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## Masterblaster1 (Sep 28, 2004)

I have felt at times that my .280 remington was a bit on the heavy side, but it has never let me down. I have killed them with .45 auto... shot placement is mostly all that matters. This year I will be using my 6.5 creed or .300 blackout.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

For the guys thinking about a 6.5CM check out the 6.5PRC before you make your purchase. 250fps makes a big difference.


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

The 6.5 creedmor is the hipster of the gun world, there I said it lol.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Former grunt said:


> The 6.5 creedmor is the hipster of the gun world, there I said it lol.


Lol they should come with instructions on how to style a man-bun.


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## CDN1 (May 27, 2018)

Thirty pointer said:


> Used a 30-30 most of my life with good results as i hunted mostly wooded areas with shots less than 75 yds .After planting a food plot with the end over 125 yds i went with a 30-06 .Maybe slightly overkill but its good for 50 -100 yds without any adjustments .30-30 drops several inches from 50-100 yds .


Zero it properly and it won't 
http://gundata.org/blog/post/30-30-ballistics-chart/


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## CDN1 (May 27, 2018)

huxIIIhammer said:


> Thats how my dad taught me to shoot.


Dad's often know some things about some stuff! I bet you don't flinch 

Question is how many beers did dad make you buy him


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Speaking of recoil. My brother had to be about 7 or 8 when he shot a 7mm08 for the first time. He was sitting on a folding chair. I kid you not the front legs of the chair came off the ground LOL


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## tgafish (Jan 19, 2001)

I love my obsolete rifles and rounds. I'll be deer hunting with my 338RCM this year. Have hunted last few years with Rem 600 in 308 and 350 Rem Mag. Might even break out the .35 Rem Contender. Don't need a big round to kill whitetails but it's fun to bring the rifles and handguns in the woods. I own no safe queens.


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## 98885 (Jan 18, 2015)

baseballdad said:


> I’m just reading post and stuff here and in Facebook and has me thinking?
> 
> Is there a rifle that is too much for Michigan whitetails?
> 
> ...


IMO, there is no such thing as Overkill. I built a 338 lapua mag improved. I built it for 2000 yard competition but it's with me at deer camp right now. I loaded some 250 Sierra game kings and a small dump truck load of powder rather than a big do truck load when using the 300 grain bullets. I built it so I'm going to kill a buck with it this year. .33 caliber bullets aren't out of the norm for deer. The lapua magnum part makes people think Waaaay too much for deer. It's just not true. Energy wise and recoil wise, maybe it's a bit much. The energy will be wasted as it will probably not effectively allow the bullet to perform at its best due to the size of animal. Either way, it WILL work. I'll post a pic of my "Overkill harvest".


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

Here my "overkill" 338 lapua with the first buck I shot with it.


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## 98885 (Jan 18, 2015)

Former grunt said:


> Here my "overkill" 338 lapua with the first buck I shot with it.
> View attachment 602063


Excellent !!!
Is that a Savage LR Hunter ? If it is, I didn't know Savage offered the 338 lapua in that model. What load did you use ?


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

Yes it is, bought it brand new almost 6 years ago, glad I did before savage went to that new stock, I hate it and the look of it. Only thing I would change on my lapua is the accutrigger. Not a fan of those. I shoot american eagle by federal 250 grain soft points. I always wanted a lapua for [email protected] and to hunt with if wanted so this rifle fits the bill.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

For whitetail, in Michigan, where I hunt, and how I am able to shoot, my .350 Legend is all I need.


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## Norman Kaster (Mar 6, 2017)

270 short mag is way too much.... Buddy shot a really big buck last year opening day blow chunks of lung's out its nose, and imploded the B-HOLE.... Also ripped every major organ loose inside chest cavity and turned it to jello.... Ruined back straps with intense bloodshot bruising.


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## coyote-hunter (Apr 3, 2009)

Norman Kaster said:


> 270 short mag is way too much.... Buddy shot a really big buck last year opening day blow chunks of lung's out its nose, and imploded the B-HOLE.... Also ripped every major organ loose inside chest cavity and turned it to jello.... Ruined back straps with intense bloodshot bruising.


I wouldn’t say the .270 wsm was too much...your buddy’s bullet selection was poor. Any larger cal weapon it’s critical to use a bonded or guilded metal, high retention projectile and allow the excess energy to pass through the animal...or take advantage of the addition penetration gain on hard quartering shots. Instead of a high frag projectile exploding with minimal penetration.

Excessive meat damage is due to poor bullet selection, and shot placement, not too large of caliber (within reason). 

Bullet options today for common calibers is nothing short of amazing IMO. You can .243 or even smaller calibers into absolute deer hammers, and inversely turn .300 cals or larger magnums into guns that don’t blow a deer to bits. All it takes is a little bit of research and time/$ investment on the hunter’s part to make your weapon give you optimal terminal performance. We’re all spoiled in today’s world in that aspect IMO.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

coyote-hunter said:


> I wouldn’t say the .270 wsm was too much...your buddy’s bullet selection was poor. Any larger cal weapon it’s critical to use a bonded or guilded metal, high retention projectile and allow the excess energy to pass through the animal...or take advantage of the addition penetration gain on hard quartering shots. Instead of a high frag projectile exploding with minimal penetration.
> 
> Excessive meat damage is due to poor bullet selection, and shot placement, not too large of caliber (within reason).
> 
> Bullet options today for common calibers is nothing short of amazing IMO. You can .243 or even smaller calibers into absolute deer hammers, and inversely turn .300 cals or larger magnums into guns that don’t blow a deer to bits. All it takes is a little bit of research and time/$ investment on the hunter’s part to make your weapon give you optimal terminal performance. We’re all spoiled in today’s world in that aspect IMO.


I won’t disagree, but the shooter has to choose one. They can hyper analyze it, and try to find that bullet that will perform between 100 and 300 yards for their magnum rifle, and then they’re only going to see deer at 50 yards or they’re only going to see deer at 500.
And very few people shoot more than one a year. So it’s all a big guess. And shot placement is however it develops for them.

So you get blown up deer with the magnums.


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## FullQuiver (May 2, 2006)

Gamekeeper said:


> And very few people shoot more than one a year. So it’s all a big guess. And shot placement is however it develops for them.
> 
> So you get blown up deer with the magnums.


I'm in agreement with you for the most part.. However the real question in my world is why anyone shooting under 500m feels the need to use any magnum on deer sized game. Elk, moose, bigger bears I get it. I just don't see the necessity of all that power and muzzle blast to kill deer.. The .308, 30-06, and 270 offer more than enough horsepower to get the job done easily out to 500m. Especially considering the actual amount of people who can pull off 500m shots or should even try.. 

In reality there is a very few people who can use the extra power hp a magnum rifle has to offer.. It's just that the number of people who can and those who think they can are not in the same ball park..


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

Pretty much all my rifles are zeroed the same, first I use remington or Winchester 180 grain soft points then I fine tune the zero with 180 grain federal blue box which is what I use hunting. I've been very happy with the federals.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

Like I said about eight pages ago, I sold my 375 because $80 box ammunition and blowing up deer didn’t work for me,

I am Totally cool with every Hunter using the rifle that they love, the cartridge they carefully chose, and having the maximum amount of fun they can with their chosen firearm.


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## Cjs180 (May 13, 2018)

jiggin is livin said:


> I think it is basically personal preference. I would never think about hunting a deer with an AR-15 in .223, but I have never seen how that turns out or tried it. I could easily change my mind after being a witness to it, just in my mind right now it doesn't seem right.


My buddy brought his .223 AR to deer camp one year. I put out 2 milk jugs filled with water and had him shoot 1 with his .223 then had him shoot the other with my 30-06. The .223 just cracked, the 30-06 exploded. I told him that’s what it does to the inside of a deer. He hunted with his .270 for the rest of the season.


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## FullQuiver (May 2, 2006)

Cjs180 said:


> My buddy brought his .223 AR to deer camp one year. I put out 2 milk jugs filled with water and had him shoot 1 with his .223 then had him shoot the other with my 30-06. The .223 just cracked, the 30-06 exploded. I told him that’s what it does to the inside of a deer. He hunted with his .270 for the rest of the season.


223 is plenty of gun for deer in the right hands.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

I have a couple favorites for whitetail deer.
Will be tossing a hundred grain bullet if a round is touched off again soon.
Hunted many years with heavier , but like the set up of a different rifle the past few years.
It's very heavy , which makes it solid on my rest. Plus great glass.

As far as what others use , one shot kills are a greater preference to me than a given caliber.
No , I don't object to someone putting multiple bullets in or through a deer.
But it's the efficiency of the first I tend to expect as to efficiency of the shot choice more than caliber..
Can caliber or stouter charges make up for a poor shot choice followed by a poor hit?
Not enough for me to depend on it. And hopefully for no one else either.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

I have plenty of choices .308 is the norm. But this year, I set one of the AR’s in .223 up for hunting. Looking forward to the weight and size difference. And finding out how it performs.


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## bucko12pt (Dec 9, 2004)

I use my REM 700, 7mm REM Mag with 165 grain Nosler partitions I bought with my Vietnam bonus back in 1974. It’s sighted at 200 yards for out west hunting and has my favorite scope, a 4-12 Schmidt and Bender. I’ve hunted with and killed so many animals with it I’m just really comfortable shooting it.

It might be a little overkill in MI and if I had the same scope on another REM 700/30:06 I have, I’d likely hunt in MI with that.

I have a friend that hunts out west with a 700 Ultra Mag. He can’t hit a barn door at 100 yards and I know he’ll never kill an animal with it. It’s stupid for the average hunter to own something like that.

Hunt with what your comfortable with and can shoot accurately.


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## FullQuiver (May 2, 2006)

swampbuck said:


> I have plenty of choices .308 is the norm. But this year, I set one of the AR’s in .223 up for hunting. Looking forward to the weight and size difference. And finding out how it performs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


What bullets are you using?


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## Whitetail_hunter (Mar 14, 2012)

Former grunt said:


> Here my "overkill" 338 lapua with the first buck I shot with it.
> View attachment 602063



Lets see the other side of that deer.


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## Whitetail_hunter (Mar 14, 2012)

Ive been accused of using too big of a gun hunting with my 300wsm. Never wasted much meat at all. but I try to stay away from the shoulder shots, prefer the federal blue box myself but couldn't find any this year. Good performance out of them and anywhere from 10-30 dollars cheaper per box than most brands.

Have shot many deer with a 12 gauge, 30-30, etc and they all do the job just fine. My reasoning behind purchasing the 300wsm was simple, it will put down any game animal I could hunt in this country. Only had 1 deer take a step after pulling the trigger which I see as a bonus, the one that ran a bit was all on me, piss poor shot placement to say the least.


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

Welp guess I'm gonna have to put the mullet up into a man bun, couldn't pass up a deal at my local outdoors store. Picked up a brand new mossberg patriot for $299 sadly in the only caliber they had 6.5 creedmor, never thought I'd own one but can't miss a chance at adding another gun to the family.


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## jacksonmideerhunter (Oct 9, 2011)

Former grunt said:


> Welp guess I'm gonna have to put the mullet up into a man bun, couldn't pass up a deal at my local outdoors store. Picked up a brand new mossberg patriot for $299 sadly in the only caliber they had 6.5 creedmor, never thought I'd own one but can't miss a chance at adding another gun to the family.


Everyone likes to make fun of it, but the reality is; that you would be pretty hard pressed to find a more ideal round, for any person, in any situation north of zone 3, for whitetail hunting. Sure, there are similar rounds that are older, and will do the same thing, but who cares. Enjoy your new gun!


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## 6thMichCav (Nov 8, 2007)

I don’t shoot large cartridges, but that doesn’t mean people shouldn’t. The deer doesn’t care what you kill them with.

In my opinion, the problem is when shooters use a caliber they are incapable of firing accurately due to recoil anticipation, thus preventing a clean kill. That threshold is up to the individual’s recoil tolerance.


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

jacksonmideerhunter said:


> Everyone likes to make fun of it, but the reality is; that you would be pretty hard pressed to find a more ideal round, for any person, in any situation north of zone 3, for whitetail hunting. Sure, there are similar rounds that are older, and will do the same thing, but who cares. Enjoy your new gun!


It was more the fan boys that originally turned me off the caliber much like the 450 bushmaster. I'm sure I'll use it next year or it might also be the loaner rifle. Still dead set I'll never own a 450 though. Still planning on getting a 7mm-08 to be my main hunting rifle.


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## 50incher (Aug 23, 2011)

The talk/debate/discussion of ballistics is age old....still good stuff mind you, imo....bottom line shoot what you are comfortable with and hence shoot well....that's #1....

Got a lot of gun buff's in my family, I'm a fishing buff, lol....but a poor shot with any large caliber will never = a good shot with a small caliber....wasting meat ? yes, a serious consideration, blah, blah....

Always admired Fred Bear who shot everything with a bow and also, now I'm having a brain fart ? LOL !....who was the guy who exalted the .270 ?....epic writer ?....Jack O Conner ?....

Tons of variables just like everything !!!....if you haven't read O'Conners writing's I would recommend them just for the adventure....cheers....


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## CDN1 (May 27, 2018)

Ole Jack loved him his .270. Personally I think the same as Jack, hard to find a better caliber for deer sized game.


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

Former grunt said:


> It was more the fan boys that originally turned me off the caliber much like the 450 bushmaster. I'm sure I'll use it next year or it might also be the loaner rifle. Still dead set I'll never own a 450 though. Still planning on getting a 7mm-08 to be my main hunting rifle.


Inside 400 yards there is such a slight difference between the 6.5 and the 7mm-08 that they are pretty much identical for hunting deer. If I’d already owned a 6.5, buying a 7mm-08 would be pointless unless I really just wanted a different gun.


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

jatc said:


> Inside 400 yards there is such a slight difference between the 6.5 and the 7mm-08 that they are pretty much identical for hunting deer. If I’d already owned a 6.5, buying a 7mm-08 would be pointless unless I really just wanted a different gun.


I agree, I really want the 7mm-08, the 6.5 is the just to have another gun plus I couldn't pass up a sale.


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

Former grunt said:


> I agree, I really want the 7mm-08, the 6.5 is the just to have another gun plus I couldn't pass up a sale.


I spent some money last year and bought a really nice 7mm-08, mainly because it’s the gun/combo I’ve always wanted. Still going to get a 6.5 though because I can coyote hunt at night with that round. Probably going to pick up a .257 Weatherby Mag someday too simply because I think the cartridge itself looks cool as hell!


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

jatc said:


> I spent some money last year and bought a really nice 7mm-08, mainly because it’s the gun/combo I’ve always wanted. Still going to get a 6.5 though because I can coyote hunt at night with that round. Probably going to pick up a .257 Weatherby Mag someday too simply because I think the cartridge itself looks cool as hell!


What 7mm-08 did you get?


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

Former grunt said:


> It was more the fan boys that originally turned me off the caliber much like the 450 bushmaster. I'm sure I'll use it next year or it might also be the loaner rifle. Still dead set I'll never own a 450 though. Still planning on getting a 7mm-08 to be my main hunting rifle.


That's funny. If I buy a new rifle soon it'll be a .450BM. I understand how a lot of hype can turn you off. But everything I've heard is positive for what I like to hunt.


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## mjh4 (Feb 2, 2018)

As far as a 100-150yd gun I'll take a 44mag lever gun. Hard hitting round with barely any recoil. Far better for me then lugging around the ole heavy 12gauge mule kicking cannon.


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

Nostromo said:


> That's funny. If I buy a new rifle soon it'll be a .450BM. I understand how a lot of hype can turn you off. But everything I've heard is positive for what I like to hunt.


I've read about em here and other places, know a couple guys that have em, seems like a decent gun just something I don't need or want, I don't hunt below the rifle line unless it's bow season. If I was to judge the 450 on just my one buddy who has used his alot the past 2 years I would hardcore no it but he's a ****** shot so it's not the gun or bullets. I've thought about putting together a 458 socom ar build for s&gs so when people ask if that's a 450 I can be different.


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## IceHog (Nov 23, 2007)

I bought a Tikka T3X lite in 6.5 Creedmoor, absolutely love the gun. It's a tack driver, took 2 shots to get it sighted in, the next 38 were in a 1.125" group at 100 yards. Shot a giant Saskatchewan buck with it last year, he was dead on impact. I've never had a rifle that was more enjoyable to shoot. I wish there was enough hair on my head for a bun .


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

Former grunt said:


> I've read about em here and other places, know a couple guys that have em, seems like a decent gun just something I don't need or want, I don't hunt below the rifle line unless it's bow season. If I was to judge the 450 on just my one buddy who has used his alot the past 2 years I would hardcore no it but he's a ****** shot so it's not the gun or bullets. I've thought about putting together a 458 socom ar build for s&gs so when people ask if that's a 450 I can be different.


Go ahead. Be an individual.


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

Former grunt said:


> What 7mm-08 did you get?


I bought a Remington Model Seven SS HS Precision last summer. Gun was about $1000. I had an older Leupold Vari-X Two stainless 3-9 X 40 that I sent in to Leupold to get some custom work done. It is actually now has 3.5-10 X 40 Vari-X Three optics inside the old VX Two tube.

Wanted a silver scope on the gun and that seemed to be my best option.

Total weight of the gun is just under seven pounds with scope and rings. It has a twenty inch light contour barrel which heats up quickly, but I can keep my first three shots inside a 1 1/2” circle at 200 yards on my target range.

Perfect gun for deer inside 350 yards. If I need more range of power I’ll bust out my Remington 700 7mm-mag, but the 7mm-08 has been doing pretty well on the last six deer I shot with it.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

Former grunt said:


> Welp guess I'm gonna have to put the mullet up into a man bun, couldn't pass up a deal at my local outdoors store. Picked up a brand new mossberg patriot for $299 sadly in the only caliber they had 6.5 creedmor, never thought I'd own one but can't miss a chance at adding another gun to the family.


I want a 6.5CM so bad. The ballistics are awesome and for about as little recoil as you will get with having it be that flat and still carrying the energy. But, lately I have been looking more into the 6.5PRC, just because of the hype with the creed. I like the ammo availability of the more popular round though. 

I really want to get into long range shooting. Sure my 30-06 or the .270 will do it, but a 6.5 is just built for it and you can night hunt with them, like you said. That’s my biggest justification to it. 



jacksonmideerhunter said:


> Everyone likes to make fun of it, but the reality is; that you would be pretty hard pressed to find a more ideal round, for any person, in any situation north of zone 3, for whitetail hunting. Sure, there are similar rounds that are older, and will do the same thing, but who cares. Enjoy your new gun!


They are definitely in the ballistic sweet spot. No one with a brain can argue that. 



CDN1 said:


> Ole Jack loved him his .270. Personally I think the same as Jack, hard to find a better caliber for deer sized game.


The .270 is a very well rounded gun. I love the one I bought my wife. Problem is, she doesn’t like how much I love it. So I’ll use that to buy my 6.5, which she is totally on board with. I just worry she’ll like that one too.......

I will likely deer hunt with my 30.06 mostly still. Just because it’s bigger and badder are close range. Hell I still use the 30-30 when in bow range. 

I love all my rifles and select them for the area I’m hunting. 

If I had to only have one though, 30.06 Hands down. The ammo selection is amazing and there are rounds for every situation.


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## Joel/AK (Jan 12, 2013)

CDN1 said:


> No such thing as overkill but there is over gunned.
> 
> From a recoil perspective a lot of guys that are shooting heavy calibers are the worst " flinchers" I know of. If you want to test your flinch response. Head to the range and let you friend load your rifle or maybe not load your rifle while you're not watching. Then you shoot it.
> 
> ...


Usually the guys who flinch with big bores are newbies. I've owned 375H&H's, 416remmag, 458winmag, and a 458Lott. I let an experienced shooter shoot them and no problems, new guy who talks smack(usually) well....

Worse flinched I have seen were in the military. New people around guns but still. As an RSO, I used to spend alot of time helping them get over the fact that the 556 will not blow your shoulder off. I'd reload their mags and periodically put a spent case in. When the firing pin would go click on the empty and they would flinch, I would ask if they needed a doc for their pain. Most ended up getting it.


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## CDN1 (May 27, 2018)

The uncertainty of not knowing cures the certainty of the reaction. It also allows the the shooter to understand that the reaction is the cause of their poor performance.


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## Joel/AK (Jan 12, 2013)

Yeah its amazing when people realize the basics. Control your breathing, squeeze and let it surprise you. People can shoot pretty good. Those are basics.

I'm a big gun guy, dead is dead. Thats just me. I do believe that though that a 30-06 is all you need to hunt anything in North America. Be smart on your shots and your good to go......

Thats boring though


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## Joel/AK (Jan 12, 2013)

One year we did a bear camp for griz on the Taylor highway in AK. Buddy brought out his 50bmg. Nice griz stepped out at 600 yards. He told us to aim x amount inches low at 600 since it was sighted in for 1 mile. Nobody wanted to shoot cuz we all wanted to watch. We actually argued til the bear walked away.

Not sure if it was actually sighted in for a mile but listening to him, at 600 shooting at natural targets that thing was on. We shot 100 rounds that week. Glad he had more money than I did..lol


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## rdwings926 (Oct 15, 2007)

Yes as I can attest to using a 300WM. On one hand I never have used it to its capabilities, 200-500 yard shots. On the other I know damn well hit a deer anywhere in the body its down within 60 yards which has come in handy for 2 I have shot on dead all out runs with mid body hits a lessor may have not put down quick, not killed but incapacitated. Major issue is I do not handload and have not found a factory that leaves a blood trail which I believe is due to high velocity at to short a distance. I hit he vast majority in the boiler room, dbl lung, heart et all. They blow thru the deer, wreck it inside, no blood. Don't really like neck shots. Have used many factory loads, thought Hornady Whitetail 150 gr Interlocs would solve, nope. This year Norma 155 gr Kalahari may be the ticket. Jury still out due to no broadside hits, one quartering to me, center chest out rt side down on the spot and a neck just in front of the shoulder, down on the spot. With the new rules I use it rather than the CVS for blackpowder and perhaps get a broadside to further evaluate.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

rdwings926 said:


> Yes as I can attest to using a 300WM. On one hand I never have used it to its capabilities, 200-500 yard shots. On the other I know damn well hit a deer anywhere in the body its down within 60 yards which has come in handy for 2 I have shot on dead all out runs with mid body hits a lessor may have not put down quick, not killed but incapacitated. Major issue is I do not handload and have not found a factory that leaves a blood trail which I believe is due to high velocity at to short a distance. I hit he vast majority in the boiler room, dbl lung, heart et all. They blow thru the deer, wreck it inside, no blood. Don't really like neck shots. Have used many factory loads, thought Hornady Whitetail 150 gr Interlocs would solve, nope. This year Norma 155 gr Kalahari may be the ticket. Jury still out due to no broadside hits, one quartering to me, center chest out rt side down on the spot and a neck just in front of the shoulder, down on the spot. With the new rules I use it rather than the CVS for blackpowder and perhaps get a broadside to further evaluate.


It Sounds contrary to manliness, but they make reduced recoil,Soft cartridges now for the 300WM. They are lower speed And might work better inside 300 yd.


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

rdwings926 said:


> Yes as I can attest to using a 300WM. On one hand I never have used it to its capabilities, 200-500 yard shots. On the other I know damn well hit a deer anywhere in the body its down within 60 yards which has come in handy for 2 I have shot on dead all out runs with mid body hits a lessor may have not put down quick, not killed but incapacitated. Major issue is I do not handload and have not found a factory that leaves a blood trail which I believe is due to high velocity at to short a distance. I hit he vast majority in the boiler room, dbl lung, heart et all. They blow thru the deer, wreck it inside, no blood. Don't really like neck shots. Have used many factory loads, thought Hornady Whitetail 150 gr Interlocs would solve, nope. This year Norma 155 gr Kalahari may be the ticket. Jury still out due to no broadside hits, one quartering to me, center chest out rt side down on the spot and a neck just in front of the shoulder, down on the spot. With the new rules I use it rather than the CVS for blackpowder and perhaps get a broadside to further evaluate.


Federal Premium 165 Nosler Partitions. Been using the Partitions in my 7 mag for almost thirty years on everything from coyote, elk, and deer. 20 yards to 450 yards they do the same thing every time. Pull the trigger and animals just drop.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

jatc said:


> Federal Premium 165 Nosler Partitions. Been using the Partitions in my 7 mag for almost thirty years on everything from coyote, elk, and deer. 20 yards to 450 yards they do the same thing every time. Pull the trigger and animals just drop.


I used Nosler Partitions out of my 338 Win Mag for 35 years and they do work very well on everything. My only complaint is the lead tips get damaged with repeated loading/unloading. We recently switched over to Barns bullets and really like the performance and durability of them.


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

Trophy Specialist said:


> I used Nosler Partitions out of my 338 Win Mag for 35 years and they do work very well on everything. My only complaint is the lead tips get damaged with repeated loading/unloading. We recently switched over to Barns bullets and really like the performance and durability of them.


I notice the same thing with the lead tips on the partitions. Using a Remington 700 with a hinged floor plate seems to beat them up pretty good, but it doesn’t seem to hurt the accuracy at all like I would think it should.


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## Skibum (Oct 3, 2000)

jatc said:


> I notice the same thing with the lead tips on the partitions. Using a Remington 700 with a hinged floor plate seems to beat them up pretty good, but it doesn’t seem to hurt the accuracy at all like I would think it should.


Partitions are just a great bullet.


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## U.P.Grouse Chaser (Dec 27, 2018)

I've been shooting 150 gr ballistic silvertips out of my 300 WSM I've taken 5 bucks and 2 Does with the rifle. All have died within sight. I've back trailed most of them to the point of impact . All have left good blood trails.


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## JasonSlayer (Aug 4, 2009)

U.P.Grouse Chaser said:


> I've been shooting 150 gr ballistic silvertips out of my 300 WSM I've taken 5 bucks and 2 Does with the rifle. All have died within sight. I've back trailed most of them to the point of impact . All have left good blood trails.


I shoot these bullets out of my 22-250 albeit hand loads. Accuracy is outstanding. I've yet to hear of a groundhog complain about the performance


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## BucksandDucks (May 25, 2010)

Trophy Specialist said:


> I used Nosler Partitions out of my 338 Win Mag for 35 years and they do work very well on everything. My only complaint is the lead tips get damaged with repeated loading/unloading. We recently switched over to Barns bullets and really like the performance and durability of them.


I have shot 4 deer and 1 bear with a 338 Win Mag, 250 grain Nosler Partitions. 4 of the animals were bang flop. 

One buck was close to a property line so I put the cross hairs center shoulder. Hit right where I was aiming but the buck ran 150 yards. Couldn't believe it 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Gamekeeper said:


> It Sounds contrary to manliness, but they make reduced recoil,Soft cartridges now for the 300WM. They are lower speed And might work better inside 300 yd.


Is that called 30-06?


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

I've noticed with any soft point bullet wether the wonderful partions or regular ole winchester super X's the point will get deformed, ain't hurt nothing yet except the deer.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

Former grunt said:


> I've noticed with any soft point bullet wether the wonderful partions or regular ole winchester super X's the point will get deformed, ain't hurt nothing yet except the deer.


It crazy how well cheapo Core Lokts perform in so many rifles.


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

Gamekeeper said:


> It crazy how well cheapo Core Lokts perform in so many rifles.


That's my go to round to zero a scope then I fine tune it with federal blue box that I hunt with.


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## Jiw275 (Jan 1, 2015)

My cheap CorLok hit a rib going in (1.25” hole) and a rib going out (2” hole) going out on this years’ deer.

Though I didn’t take pictures so it may not have happened.


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## BlackRhino (Feb 21, 2005)

.50 cal Gatling gun might be overkill. However, you can likely fill all your tags in one setting....and cut some firewood down.

Sent from my SM-A515U using Tapatalk


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## Joel/AK (Jan 12, 2013)

BlackRhino said:


> .50 cal Gatling gun might be overkill. However, you can likely fill all your tags in one setting....and cut some firewood down.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A515U using Tapatalk


Now thats time management...lol


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Gamekeeper said:


> It crazy how well cheapo Core Lokts perform in so many rifles.


Yup. And they actually perform pretty well after impact.


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## TriggerDiscipline (Sep 25, 2017)

BlackRhino said:


> .50 cal Gatling gun might be overkill. However, you can likely fill all your tags in one setting....and cut some firewood down.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A515U using Tapatalk


Did somebody say .50 cal?


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## Richard Cranium (Feb 27, 2008)

Milosh said:


> That’s what I’ve settled on too, what ammo are you using? I switched to Bear Creek this year and I’m thoroughly impressed with it, but it ain’t cheap.


I too am shooting a Bushmaster. I switched this year to Federal 260 gr Fusion. I have killed two deer with them. First one went about 35 yards and the second one dropped in his tracks. I really like the penetration. The second deer had the round go through the liver (angled shot) and turned it into pudding. I am thinking about switching to Barnes copper next year to get away from the lead. About $35.00 per box for the Federals. I guess I will see how they do. Who knows, I may switch back to the Federals if not happy with the Barnes.


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## CDN1 (May 27, 2018)

All of the calibers suggested are easily capable of killing a deer. Discussions about bullet performance is a moot point. shot placement and practice is likely more a factor in DRT kills. Use a 50 BMG an blow a leg off. The deer is still likely to hobble off and make for a horrible or no recovery. Hit one in the boilerroom with a .233 it's likely to be dead inside of 100yrds. Blood trails are debatable based on entry and exits and shot angles etc.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

rdwings926 said:


> Yes as I can attest to using a 300WM. On one hand I never have used it to its capabilities, 200-500 yard shots. On the other I know damn well hit a deer anywhere in the body its down within 60 yards which has come in handy for 2 I have shot on dead all out runs with mid body hits a lessor may have not put down quick, not killed but incapacitated. Major issue is I do not handload and have not found a factory that leaves a blood trail which I believe is due to high velocity at to short a distance. I hit he vast majority in the boiler room, dbl lung, heart et all. They blow thru the deer, wreck it inside, no blood. Don't really like neck shots. Have used many factory loads, thought Hornady Whitetail 150 gr Interlocs would solve, nope. This year Norma 155 gr Kalahari may be the ticket. Jury still out due to no broadside hits, one quartering to me, center chest out rt side down on the spot and a neck just in front of the shoulder, down on the spot. With the new rules I use it rather than the CVS for blackpowder and perhaps get a broadside to further evaluate.


I don’t have any experience killing with a .300WM or WSM, but two very good buddies do. The one got the .300WM given to him on his 14th birthday and never shot a deer with anything else until last year. He always said the same thing and he hardly ever let it stretch its legs past 100yds. Tried different ammo but never was really happy with it. He bought a .450 Bushy last year for kicks and he LOVES it. Said he probably won’t take the .300WM out of the case unless he’s hunting over a field. 

Other buddy has a .300WSM, he does like to use it and let it stretch its legs and has much more positive reviews. He said that core loks or other soft point rounds seem to perform best inside 300yds were 90% of Michigan whitetail are shot. 



Gamekeeper said:


> It Sounds contrary to manliness, but they make reduced recoil,Soft cartridges now for the 300WM. They are lower speed And might work better inside 300 yd.


Lol this made me laugh, but you are absolutely correct. It isn’t really less mainly right if you think about it from a ballistic stand point. You’re just allowing it to skip the first few hundred yards so it can transfer the energy into the animal vs slide right through before the bullet understands what’s going on and forgets to do its job. 



Gamekeeper said:


> It crazy how well cheapo Core Lokts perform in so many rifles.


I can’t agree more. I’ve bought a few different rounds this year, due to Remington leaving the majority of Michigan hunters high and dry with the core lokts shortage. I have got a couple that shoot/group well from various rifles/calibers, but I have yet to test them on an animal. 

I’m hopeful the Winchester whitetail XP’s or the federal’s we have work well. I do have a couple boxes of some other soft points that remind me of core lokts. Can’t remember who made them off hand though.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

jiggin is livin said:


> Lol this made me laugh, but you are absolutely correct. It isn’t really less mainly right if you think about it from a ballistic stand point. You’re just allowing it to skip the first few hundred yards so it can transfer the energy into the animal vs slide right through before the bullet understands what’s going on and forgets to do its job.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I use many Federal .308 Game Shok on whitetail's. 180gn typically. Sometimes 165's
But I shoot from a box blind over food plots on all the properties.
Solid rest, relaxed, etc.
The .30's, for nearly identical targets, put more energy into the animal, and distance to pile up is 25% better than the .243.
That's a heart shot, behind the crease, at feeding 110 lb does, ranging from 180 to 275 yards.
.243's lay against the hide if they hit ribs, 308's power through typically.
I have no complaints with std cup and core bullets.

For recovery purposes, people should think about some of this more closely.
It's kinda fun.


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