# Skein Walkers...



## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

Just out of curiosity...

Have any of you ever tried circle hooks?

Trying to limit the amount of steelhead that have the hook deep down in their gut, any advice???

I haven't used this method a lot, but from the times I have, seemed like you gut hooked a lot of the fish.


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## no lead (Jul 28, 2005)

i have had great luck with them on cats. never tried them for steelhead.


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## earl (Sep 7, 2007)

This last fall I got serious about trying circle hooks on bags from the pier. I've tried a couple of times previously with dismal results with size 6's with bags and size 4's with alewives.

I'm a little better than 2/3's of the way through my evaluation (season got short on me). Normally I've been an Owner and Gammi guy but a buddy of mine told me to try some Mustad "demon circles", these hooks performed significantly better than Gammi Octo Circles (in about 20 bites about 16 hook ups not one unbuttoned; zero gut hooked fish- though one in the upper gum line), the Gammi's performed worse on every measure (including a couple of gut hooks and a couple of fish pulled loose).

I've only got 5-6 bites on the owners (mutu circles), but I've pulled one loose and had one gut hooked. Of course the pier is not walking skein behind a boat. The mustad is in the middle and is a size 4 the others are both listed as 6's.

PS the fish hooked were a mix of Whites and Steel


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## diztortion (Sep 6, 2009)

The nice thing about circle hooks is that they snag up on the bottom less than a regular hook.

I've tried them but haven't put any serious time in with them.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

I'm interested in your observations... keep up the posts, will check back. As for the gut hooks... pay attention !...


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## samsteel (Oct 6, 2008)

METTLEFISH said:


> As for the gut hooks... pay attention !...


ouch


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## wabakimi07 (Mar 13, 2009)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wabakimi07 (Mar 13, 2009)

I have used circles hooks for back bouncing and side drifting since the early fall. They work nearly 100% of the time UNLESS you set the hook. It takes ALOT of practice not to set the hook when a fish is slamming. The fish are always hooked (except 1) in the side of the jaw. I have landed tons of fish on them but have lost quite a few when I started using them, I credit this to operator error.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

METTLEFISH said:


> I'm interested in your observations... keep up the posts, will check back. As for the gut hooks... pay attention !...


Not a matter of "paying attention" ole boy, sometimes they just inhale the stuff, no matter how fast you set...


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## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

earl said:


> This last fall I got serious about trying circle hooks on bags from the pier. I've tried a couple of times previously with dismal results with size 6's with bags and size 4's with alewives.
> 
> I'm a little better than 2/3's of the way through my evaluation (season got short on me). Normally I've been an Owner and Gammi guy but a buddy of mine told me to try some Mustad "demon circles", these hooks performed significantly better than Gammi Octo Circles (in about 20 bites about 16 hook ups not one unbuttoned; zero gut hooked fish- though one in the upper gum line), the Gammi's performed worse on every measure (including a couple of gut hooks and a couple of fish pulled loose).
> 
> ...


Just out of curiosity...

What type of knot did you use with the bent eye, circle octopus hook, which you didn't care for?

Reason being I would have to use a bent eye style hook in order to use a snell knot for skein. Thought if you used a normal type of knot (clinch, palomar, etc..) with the bent eye style of hook it could have made it less effective?


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## earl (Sep 7, 2007)

When I tried the Gammi Octo's a couple of years back I simply tied an improved clinch. This year after the having some success with the Mustads I retried the Gammi with a snell (having observed the difference in the curve of the shank). Still a poorer outcome for me.


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## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

earl said:


> When I tried the Gammi Octo's a couple of years back I simply tied an improved clinch. This year after the having some success with the Mustads I retried the Gammi with a snell (having observed the difference in the curve of the shank). Still a poorer outcome for me.


Thank you! Really appreciate the info man, I am going to try those Mustads and just going to bend the eye back a bit myself.

Will see how it works and let you know.

Thanks again!


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

I used them almost exclusively for 4-5 years and continue to use them in select circumstances. Someone asked me the same question a couple of months ago, and here is my observations and experience that I sent. Hope this helps.
_______________________________________________________

Regarding the circle hooks, they work OK, but for what I am using what I see available, the most common hook type/size for stream fishing, are Octopus Circle hooks, which are a bit modified and less "radical" than the circle hooks more commonly used in saltwater. I only mention saltwater because I believe that is where the true effectiveness of circle hooks were established. I still use Octopus Circles on larger rivers where I am making long drifts, on the pier from time to time, and with my son, who doesn't always set the hook. As I said, I used them exclusively for about 4-5 years. Many of the steelhead streams I fish either have stream trout, or, as in the case of IN, hordes of coho smolts (which IN stocks in the fall-go figure) and steelhead fingerlings. In this situation, it is hard to say that circle hooks make a significant difference because the virtually all the fish I hook are hooked around the mouth, and that includes steelhead, regardless of hook type. With either a J-hook or circle hook, you will occasionally get some eye injuries to smaller trout/immature lake runners. I typically find that hook and bait size mitigates stream trout and parr/smolts from swallowing a spawn sack/waxworm/wiggler float rigs, as often, their teeth just get caught up in the mesh of a spawn bag. Also, an immediate hook set I would opine makes a big difference. As I mainly fish floats, with stream steelhead, occasionally, you will hook one in the tongue, but to be honest about it, I had more mature steelhead/salmon get deep hooked (Gills and towards the esophageal sphincter) with spinners, plugs and less commonly with flies. Flies at times due to the "weightless" aspect and spinners/plugs because of some of the overt aggressive takes. Regarding stream trout/smolts while fishing salmon/steelhead in streams, deep hooking with artificials/flys in my experience is not significant. 

Tangentially, I also have used circle hooks for walleye, smallmouth and on the peirs for salmon/steelhead, and also a bit in saltwater. For smallmouth, which can really swallow baits fast, you will still get some gut hooking even with circle hooks. Is it less than with a J-hook? Maybe, but to be honest, it would be hard for me to say whether it is significant. I have also noted the same thing with pier caught skamanias. They tend to really swallow baits (alewifes, crawlers or shrimp) really fast and a high percentage get gut hooked, regardless of hook type. for reasons I can't readily explain, In contrast, I rarely gut hook salmon on the piers, again, regardless of hook type. Both steelhead and salmon are ostensibly both in feeding mode, but why I am gut hooking way more skamanias is just speculative. Just for comparison sakes, bait fishing on piers during the summer is mostly a passive method. As I mentioned before, the circle hooks used in saltwater appear more radical than the modified circles commonly used in freshwater fishing, and perhaps that may be significant.

XXX, in my opinion, other factors beside hook type may matter more. They would be:
- Bait/hook size
- Active fishing techniques vs fork stick
- Setting the hook on the initial take vs "letting them take it"
- size and type of trout

There are multiple reasons I have went back to using more J-hooks again. They include costs (Gami Octopus Circles go about $3.00/10 right now), old habits of setting the hook (a no-no with circles), and the fact that the vast (>95%) of all fish hooked while steelheading in streams are mouth hooked, regardless of hook type.


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## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

Yeah, definitely agree on the pier skammies and the fact no need for circles when float fishing.

I was also thinking that perhaps just going to a larger hook when walking skein may be a better option than trying circle hooks to avoid fish swallowing it.

I also thought, perhaps if you only walked skein in the Winter months when fish are less active and tend to not inhale baits quite so much, may be a good solution right there.

If you like to keep what you catch, no reason to worry, but I have no desire to keep most of the fish I catch.


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## southshore (Oct 27, 2008)

I have minimal experience with circle hooks for steelhead, only tried them for a couple weeks pier fishing for skams and had similar results, missed a few gut hooked a few had it work right on a few. I dont think they would work very good for walking spawn because the fish are usually opening their mouth and inhaling the bait and not really moving away with it which, from my saltwate experience, is what seem to be what makes them engage. 

As to not gut hooking fish when walking spawn, my suggestion is to tie some two hook mooching rigs, and cut the rear hook at the bend. Bait the rear shank and you should have a bait with the hook just out in front, like a hair rig for carp. I have used the opposite rig, cutting and baiting the front hook trailing the hook behind, for light biting kings on single hook rivers in AK. I know its a bit more expensive, but the back shank can be any cheap hook you have laying around since its only to hold the bait.


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## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

My thoughts were that by using the circles you could just let them eat it and once they felt the line, they would move and set the hook themselves, then I began to think, if you let them eat it that long, will likely just be in their gut every single time...

So I will probably just stick with the Owner SSW hooks I have always used...

I may try that double hook rig too, thank you for the suggestion, much appreciated!


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## TrekJeff (Sep 7, 2007)

As mentioned before, it's the shift from setting the hook, to feeling the "tug" I started using these on live bait rigs for walleye. It was a learner curve. Once I got the "feel" of it, they are just as effective as a J hook. I ran thes on harnesses I tied, so they all were snelled...come to think about it I don't think I've fished a circle that wasn't snelled.

I now use them on everything that I rig live bait on...sure there are some exceptions, like pan fish, but tip ups, catfish, walleye etc. I've had great results and less mortality of sub legal fish...which is my biggest concern.


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## aslongasitpullsback (Dec 30, 2005)

to get the effectiveness out of a circle hook it must be snelled... you never set the hook .... you just wind the reel tight to the fish and play him out... this system works tired and true...
I have hooked small fresh water fish all the way to large sharks in the Keys... with circle hooks.... they are defiantly a bait hook....


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