# Need Help:My dog nipped/snapped and broke skin on a stranger



## PuddleJumper (Sep 23, 2009)

I have a 3 year old (I've had him since 1.5 years) Chessie and yes, he's protective of the front door. He shows no other aggresion at home- food bowl, toys, treats, kids fall/step on him at all.

I have gotten used to the fact that I have to have "formal" introductions when company/strangers come to the door and inside.

I have him sit and stay about 10 feet from the door (constantly barking of course), open the door then walk him holding his collar to the company let him sniff their hand and clothing, give him his duck toy and away he goes and all is fine.

Our handyman came and that changed today. As I was walking him up his tail was wagging and he was barking which is typical. The guy lowered his hand for a sniff and my dog lunged, growled, and snapped at his hand peeling back a 1/2" chunk of skin on his knuckle and drawing blood. I grabbed him by his mouth, flipped him on his back, swatted him, and shut him in the laundry room while yelling "NO!". 

About a half an hour later, with the handyman's permission, I brought my dog out again to make another introduction. I walked him out, layed him on his back and let the handyman pet his belly and chest. No issues. Then I let him roll over and sit, holding his collar, while I finished my conversation with the guy. All of a sudden he started agressively barking at him again. Into the laundry room with a swat and a "NO!" again.

I was/still am amazed at this reaction. I am at a loss as to what to do to prevent this behavior in the future, and quite frankly, I'm not sure I want the worry of this happening again. It's one thing have company intimidated by our dog, which is a pain, but this is totally unacceptable.

Is this a problem I can prevent via training or do I resort to stuffing the dog in the back room until company leaves?

A little more info- 

The dog is an intact male

We just added another baby to the family 2 weeks ago (visitors have been quite frequent and the dog exhibited "normal" behavor)

Three weeks ago at a training event he was fine with sharing his water bowl with about 6 or so dogs until the third time another intact male came for a drink. He snarled & went after the dog to the end of his leash. We properly went through the dog-to-dog steps to re-introduce them. His behavior, however, kept the dog (and the other dogs) from coming back and I'm afraid, positively reinforced this aggressive behavior.

Whether you think you're an expert or not, any insight or advice would be much appreciated.


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## Brittany Ben (Apr 19, 2010)

I'm pretty new here, and I'm not sure on this one.
Hopefully some of the regulars will chime in with some good advice.

I've got a golden that has been animal aggressive, but not human.
3 different tainers have warned me that if she ever bites a human, I am out of options. I look forward to hearing if there are any good solutions out there.

-Ben


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## PahtridgeHunter (Sep 1, 2004)

One solution: the $60 shot. The only way you can guarentee that it'll never happen again. I'd be especially nervous with a new baby in the house. Just my $.02.


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## timberdoodle528 (Nov 25, 2003)

No expert here, but I'll give my opinion, which is having a dog like that around is not worth the risk. You can't watch him every second, and stuff happens and it's quick and it could be a child next. He's a liability. Just my thoughts. I'd get rid of him. It's not worth it. I've been through it before.


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## PuddleJumper (Sep 23, 2009)

PahtridgeHunter said:


> I'd be especially nervous with a new baby in the house. Just my $.02.


I have a 5 year old and a 2 year old already. The dog gets mauled by the kids and licks them to death. The inner circle is okay- he's protective- it's those outside the circle that has me overly worried now. 

I mentioned the new baby wondering if the addition has stepped up protective behavior.


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

The dog isn't the problem, it's your handyman,, what's wrong with that guy??:lol:

All kidding aside,, I would NOT wanna be in your shoe's right now.


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## Bonz 54 (Apr 17, 2005)

Chesapeakes. I have two friends that either had (Sandy is gone now) or have a Chessie. Sandy was an intact male and was aggressive to the end. Drake is another intact male and is more like a Lab than a Chessie. If you read any of the books on Chessies, they tell you they can be aggressive, but I think that follows certain breeding. The fact that you have a new baby in the house may have amped up his defender genes. 

The question I would ask is: do you plan to breed him? If you don't intend to breed him, then I would probably opt for neutering. It does calm down most aggressive behavior in most breeds of dogs. Another question. What is different about the Handyman? Does he have a dog? Your dog may have smelled that on him and taken action.

Chessies were bred to retrieve hundreds of ducks in a day and then protect the camp and equipment while the hunter was away. Both behaviors were bred into them and your not going to change that. You may be able to tone it down, however you will always need to be on guard. My friend that owned Sandy, whenever he needed to discipline one of his kids. Would have to lock the dog in another room or the dog would get aggressive with him. Somethings you just have to work out to fit your personal situation. Best of Luck FRANK


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## jbo (Oct 12, 2007)

Just had the same scenario this past winter, animal aggresive dog, became protective of the kids and then bit a human, only option was put him down. He always played with the kids and my 2 yr old daughter could sit on him while he was laying down. Unfortunately that did him in as he was laying down and she sat on him and nipped at her and growled, barely broke the skin but it was on her face and there is no forgiveness for that. If you keep the dog, put him up when ppl come over and watch your kids, I trusted my dog and never thought he would touch my kid. I was lucky as nothing really bad happened. The scary part is, you can't know what they are thinking and when they will react and you don't want it to be bad. just my 2 cents. Be careful and trust me its a hard decision but whats more important having a non scared up kid or a dog.


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

Chessies are the retriever world's answer to a guard dog. 

Without knowing the history of the dog, I'm going to venture a guess and say that he probably wasn't socialized properly at a young age prior to your getting him.

I'm no dog behaviorist though and can't give you any useful advise. How your handy man approached the dog may have had an impact. You're likely good and tense when visitors come too and the dog is most likely feeding on that as well. Either way you have a problem on your hands.

Find a pro to talk to.


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## FIJI (May 15, 2003)

If he did that with YOU THERE. Whats going to happen when (and it WILL happen sooner or later) that youre not there to intervene ??
What if its a kid next time ? (or your baby that sets him off)


you said it yourself
"I'm not sure I want the worry of this happening again. "


Yes, ...I train dogs for a living and agree that there is only one viable option. Anything else is just an excuse


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## Interceptor (Apr 15, 2008)

We went through an aggressive dog experience with a rescue that ended sadly when the dog violently attacked our older dog and was correctly put down the next day. I felt bad thinking there was something I could have done but after a few days and talking with the trainer a light goes on and we realized the dog was wired wrong. 

Think carefully about your family, other people and your liability coverages and most importantly get some impartial advice from someone that knows and can evaluate dogs and their behavior. 

ed


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## GamebirdPreserve (Nov 21, 2006)

*Dog Owner's Guide: Canine Aggression*


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## JBooth (Sep 21, 2009)

Chessies are tough to break if the behavior is allowed. Pup thinks he is king ding a ling over there and needs to be taught otherwise. I have the most kind and non threatening Chesapeake I've ever heard of, and even she is protective and dominant. I'm highly skeptical of the other dog owners claiming that he would hurt your children. The inner circle is always safe with chessies. They are too smart of a breed to get that one confused. Neutering may calm him down but it is likely he considers himself dominant and will not go away from that.A 3 year old should still be able to be trained. I swat my dog on the nose anytime she tries something and she has learned what is acceptable and continues to do so. If you let up one time, the dog will continue the behavior. If you let chessies get away with anything, they will always remember and test you to see if you will follow up. You need to be dominate and dictate the meeting. No growling or barking should occur once the dog has seen you with the person. Stamp that out. And don't for a second think that dog doesn't believe it is king of that house. Everytime someone comes to the door back the dog up and make him sit and STAY. Don't open the door until you've gotten him to stop barking. If he does, remove him from the room before you open the door. Dominant dogs want to know who is in their house. They will stop the behavior if they are denied the privilege of dominance. I love chessies. Gotta be tough and consistent with them though


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## FIJI (May 15, 2003)

how many of y'all would learn if I smacked YOU on the nose ???:rant:


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## WeimsRus (Oct 30, 2007)

I'm not a professional trainer or behaviorist, what ever that is, but I do have experiance as an owner and a breeder. Have never met an aggressive Chessie and never hope to as these are a larger breed an can do some damage in a short period of time. I do have people I know call the house with situations like this asking my opinion. The last one was a Bull Terrier, the difference is this dog was gotten as a pup. I asked them if they were going to breed, they were kind of wishey washey about it. I told them flat out if you are unsure if you want to you probably won't, just get the dog neutered and to a professional trainer. Today this dog is a great family pet. This was a puppy less than a year old. You have an adult dog and all the rules have changed. You can neuter and send put him through training, but he is old enough now for this not to make much of a difference. You will find trainers/behaviorists that will tell you they can fix this, DON'T BELIEVE THEM. This training is only effective if you are around to control the dog because you are the alpha, if you are not there is nothing to stop the dog from reverting back to this behavior. This is an older dog that does not have bite control when it is being protective. A bad thing around me because my first rule is no blood, no foul, and this dog is being protective but does not show enough control to not draw blood. I do make exceptions when it is a young dog, because this is something that is taught while training a pup. 

So here comes the economical/time question. In these economic times are you commited to spend the time and money required to fix this problem with a new baby, knowing that this might not work and the dog is a legal liability, because it has already exhibited this type of behavior?

My advice would be to cut your losses and look for a pup that you can train and will grow up with your kid.


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## jackbob42 (Nov 12, 2003)

FIJI said:


> how many of y'all would learn if I smacked YOU on the nose ???:rant:


You are right.
Somebody should have stomped his guts out long ago.
Treating your dog like your kids and thinking a " swat " will work is for the birds. :lol:

Face it , man or beast , the only way you're ever gonna be dominant over the other is to " put the fear of God " into them at one time or another.
MUCH easier to do when they are young.


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## Michihunter (Jan 8, 2003)

I'm no dog trainer but have had "aggressive" dogs in the past. None of their aggression was ever to a family member and I honestly can say I was never in fear for my families well being regardless of my presence or not. My boys grew up from babies with our German Shepherd/Chow mix that was known throughout the neighborhood as a dog that can and will bite someone if given the opportunity. And that actually gave me more of a piece of mind than anything else knowing full well that my home and family were protected by this "vicious" dog. And yes he indulged twice on people that thought he was pet-able only to find out otherwise. And no I didn't give any thought to putting him down. He did his job and he did it well. I miss that guy more than words can express.









In the end you have a choice to make and I can only tell you what I would do- nothing. Except of course put him up when you have strangers over in your house.


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## KEITH207 (Feb 17, 2005)

PuddleJumper said:


> The dog is an intact maleQUOTE]
> 
> The first thing I would do is to have him neutered. You do not need to pass his aggressive genes on, no matter how good of a retriever he is.
> 
> The second thing is to call an animal behaviorist, to work with him. If he still has aggressive behavior after that, I would put him down before he harms someone.


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## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

I wonder if the handyman just came from a job with another intact male dog in the house?


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## WeimsRus (Oct 30, 2007)

2ESRGR8 said:


> I wonder if the handyman just came from a job with another intact male dog in the house?


Does not matter I opened the door, I let this person in, any protection ends at this point. The same with another intact male dog. If a family member was in contact with another intact male, would you expect the same behavior when they entered your house? The most likely cause of this is the Handyman reached for the dog to quickly and the dog struck out in defense, but none of us was there to see the reaction. Even in this case with the dogs size and with no bite control the dog it is a liability. Not every rescue can be saved, unless you properly evaluate the dog, take the proper precautions after this has been done, and you cannot fix every problem the previous owners created. It could be a great family pet if locked up in another room when friends come over, but I do value my friends also and have put some rescues down because of some of these issues.


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## Socks (Jan 8, 2007)

PuddleJumper said:


> I have a 5 year old and a 2 year old already. The dog gets mauled by the kids and licks them to death. The inner circle is okay- he's protective- *it's those outside the circle that has me overly worried now. *
> 
> I mentioned the new baby wondering if the addition has stepped up protective behavior.


Your kids will grow up and make friends. These kids won't be part of the circle. I was bit twice as a kid by a german shepard that my best friend had. I was real happy when that dog ran away.



Interceptor said:


> We went through an aggressive dog experience with a rescue that ended sadly when the dog violently attacked our older dog and was correctly put down the next day. I felt bad thinking there was something I could have done but after a few days and talking with the trainer a light goes on and we realized the dog was wired wrong.
> 
> Think carefully about your family, other people and your liability coverages and most importantly get some impartial advice from someone that knows and can evaluate dogs and their behavior.
> 
> ed


Won't bore you with my story, but mine ended similarly except my dog killed a neighbors dog. She was heartbroken and rightly so.



WeimsRus said:


> I'm not a professional trainer or behaviorist, what ever that is, but I do have experiance as an owner and a breeder. Have never met an aggressive Chessie and never hope to as these are a larger breed an can do some damage in a short period of time. I do have people I know call the house with situations like this asking my opinion. The last one was a Bull Terrier, the difference is this dog was gotten as a pup. I asked them if they were going to breed, they were kind of wishey washey about it. I told them flat out if you are unsure if you want to you probably won't, just get the dog neutered and to a professional trainer. Today this dog is a great family pet. This was a puppy less than a year old. You have an adult dog and all the rules have changed. You can neuter and send put him through training, but he is old enough now for this not to make much of a difference. You will find trainers/behaviorists that will tell you they can fix this, DON'T BELIEVE THEM. *This training is only effective if you are around to control the dog because you are the alpha, if you are not there is nothing to stop the dog from reverting back to this behavior*. This is an older dog that does not have bite control when it is being protective. A bad thing around me because my first rule is no blood, no foul, and this dog is being protective but does not show enough control to not draw blood. I do make exceptions when it is a young dog, because this is something that is taught while training a pup.
> 
> So here comes the economical/time question. In these economic times are you commited to spend the time and money required to fix this problem with a new baby, knowing that this might not work and the dog is a legal liability, because it has already exhibited this type of behavior?
> 
> My advice would be to cut your losses and look for a pup that you can train and will grow up with your kid.


My wife went in to use the restroom and some how the dog got out of the backyard fence and attacked the dog. About three days earlier we had her sitting at heel on a leash with a little dog that was 2 feet away and no problem.

Oh yeah, we spent a crap load of money on training and then the evet bills for the dog that died.

I'm not telling you what to do or am I going to lecture you. I'm just saying what happened to me. Think long and hard and make sure you heed my experiences when making your decision. Good luck and it sucks being in your spot, been there done that.


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

I just put down my dog Elvis. Raised him from a pup. Loved him as family.

3 1/2 , Cute, cuddly, goofy at times and a downright good dog.............till you pissed him off.

He had more chances than I would have normally given and I wasn't about to take the chance of him tearing off a kids face. I couldn't live with that guilt. I would have totally been my fault for not doing what I knew had to be done.

As much as I loved him, he could be dangerous and unpredictable. Way out of charactor for a Bassett Hound.

RIP buddy.


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

Michihunter said:


> I'm no dog trainer but have had "aggressive" dogs in the past. None of their aggression was ever to a family member and I honestly can say I was never in fear for my families well being regardless of my presence or not. My boys grew up from babies with our German Shepherd/Chow mix that was known throughout the neighborhood as a dog that can and will bite someone if given the opportunity. And that actually gave me more of a piece of mind than anything else knowing full well that my home and family were protected by this "vicious" dog. And yes he indulged twice on people that thought he was pet-able only to find out otherwise. And no I didn't give any thought to putting him down. He did his job and he did it well. I miss that guy more than words can express.
> 
> In the end you have a choice to make and I can only tell you what I would do- nothing. Except of course put him up when you have strangers over in your house.



You let someone close enough to pet your dog knowing how he was and he bit for no reason whatsoever.

Unacceptable and irresponsible.


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## Michihunter (Jan 8, 2003)

Thunderhead said:


> You let someone close enough to pet your dog knowing how he was and he bit for no reason whatsoever.
> 
> Unacceptable and irresponsible.


I thought they were too.Who in their right mind tries to reach over a fence and pet a barking dog with signs stating 'Beware of Dog' attached to it? Fortunately for me my dog did his job well and no one ever made it over my fence or in my house without my permission in all the years he was alive. If I were you I'd quit assuming to have a clue.


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

Michihunter said:


> I thought they were too.Who in their right mind tries to reach over a fence and pet a barking dog with signs stating 'Beware of Dog' attached to it? Fortunately for me my dog did his job well and no one ever made it over my fence or in my house without my permission in all the years he was alive. If I were you I'd quit assuming to have a clue.


If I were you, I'd tell the _whole_ story next time instead of trying to look like a tough guy.

Talk about clueless ............


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## RecurveRx (Jun 21, 2004)

Ahh, TH, one of the few that I miss from the WT forums. Glad to see youre still around. 

Back to the OP. That sucks. Sorry to hear youre going through this.

These things cant be diagnosed over the internet, especially by a first rate novice such as myself.

I dont know enough about your dog and your situation to suggest what is going on. Furthermore, I dont have enough personal experience to help you.

What I can do is share with you a couple of my personal observations over the past two years regarding small children and dogs. You can decide if they apply.

Most people, myself included until my current dog, dont take owning a dog as serious as they should. Having a dog with very young children in the house creates an even more interesting dynamic. We have 2 and 4 year old boys. Most of our friends have small children. What I observe more often than not from our friends and their dogs is a dog that regards himself above the children in terms of the pack pecking order. Hes fine with the kids. The kids can do anything to him. The kids clime all over him. This only happens when we have people over. Ever heard any of that before?

Why, because the toddlers are part of HIS pack. Unless the toddler challenges him (which is why kids are not allowed to play with dogs), he wont harm them. Furthermore, he will harm anyone that he regards as a threat to his subordinate pack members. 

Dont get me wrong. Our kids have a great time with their dog. Playing ball, Frisbee, lying on the floor watching TV together, hugging, etc. But what you wont find in our house is our kids wrestling with their dog, playing tug of war, chasing, or tormenting their dog. What people view as cute frolicking between their dog and their three year old, your dog views as interaction with another pack member to determine social order.

How do you get a dog to submit to a two year old? Most two year olds can say the words kennel and okay pretty well. They think it is great fun opening the crate door and not letting the dog come out until they say okay. Even more fun to put him in there on their command. Feeding and removing food from their dog is also an exercise that shows dominance. Of course, this is all done with direct supervision from the alpha  you. 

Small children and dogs are tricky IMO. Get it right, and the relationship that ensues is AWESOME. Get it wrong, and youve got a time bomb in your living room.


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## Michihunter (Jan 8, 2003)

Thunderhead said:


> If I were you, I'd tell the _whole_ story next time instead of trying to look like a tough guy.
> 
> Talk about clueless ............


I didn't realize I needed an editor for my posts here. Next time I'll check with you first OK? Hate to assume your role here and come off looking like a tough guy.


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

Michihunter said:


> I didn't realize I needed an editor for my posts here. Next time I'll check with you first OK? Hate to assume your role here and come off looking like a tough guy.


:lol:


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## WeimsRus (Oct 30, 2007)

Thunderhead said:


> I just put down my dog Elvis. Raised him from a pup. Loved him as family.
> 
> 3 1/2 , Cute, cuddly, goofy at times and a downright good dog.............till you pissed him off.
> 
> ...


 
Thunderhead, have made the same decision with pups and rescues I have gotten, no matter what the breed, sometimes you have to make this choice. After 20 years of dog experiance, you have to make the responsible one.


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## PuddleJumper (Sep 23, 2009)

WeimsRus said:


> Does not matter I opened the door, I let this person in, any protection ends at this point. The same with another intact male dog. If a family member was in contact with another intact male, would you expect the same behavior when they entered your house? The most likely cause of this is the Handyman reached for the dog to quickly and the dog struck out in defense, but none of us was there to see the reaction. Even in this case with the dogs size and with no bite control the dog it is a liability. Not every rescue can be saved, unless you properly evaluate the dog, take the proper precautions after this has been done, and you cannot fix every problem the previous owners created. It could be a great family pet if locked up in another room when friends come over, but I do value my friends also and have put some rescues down because of some of these issues.


This is my exact stance on the issue- If I approve of the guests, you will too. You can bark and sniff and act tough for a minute (not anymore) but you WILL accept the "stranger" into the house. With numerous kid and adult (grown-up) parties and dozens of guests (including the handyman) in our house under his belt, this was his first refusal. 

He did not reach his hand too fast- I have no obvious explanation. The handyman showed no threatening/intimidating behavior to the dog or me. He is a large (tall) man with a very deep voice, thats all.

My brother from out-of-state barged in my house (STUPID) a few months ago to see what the dog would do. The dog had him up against the door with his arm in his mouth- no bruises, no marks, no blood. My brother was scared and I was caught off guard but i felt the dog did exactly what it should have. 

The same handyman last winter did the same- he was working on the roof (I was gone and the wife and kids were home) and just walked in to use the bathroom. The dog had him backed up against the door barking with the guy saying "Oh S**t!, I forgot about you". No biting, nipping or mouthing.

Our cleaning lady (only comes twice a month) loves him and says he sounds tough when she's keying into the house but turns into a licky baby after she's in.

I dont get it. It's a tough spot to be in now knowing he crossed the line. And to the comment about allowing the barking at strangers once I've let them in-- I think that's the nail on the head. Even that was too much freedom to give the dog.


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## PuddleJumper (Sep 23, 2009)

RecurveRx said:


> How do you get a dog to submit to a two year old? Most two year olds can say the words kennel and okay pretty well. They think it is great fun opening the crate door and not letting the dog come out until they say okay. Even more fun to put him in there on their command. Feeding and removing food from their dog is also an exercise that shows dominance. Of course, this is all done with direct supervision from the alpha  you.
> 
> Small children and dogs are tricky IMO. Get it right, and the relationship that ensues is AWESOME. Get it wrong, and youve got a time bomb in your living room.


I agree- in my house, dogs are not for playing with or doing tricks. "Playing" in my house is running retrieving drills which my almost six yo daughter does as well as BO. She walks him on heel with or without the leash and she places him on stay, feeds him, and releases him-twice a day, everyday. If he releases before she says, she walks him back to his spot and REALLY makes him wait. 

Not only is that good for the dog but it also teaches responsibilty to the children and an understanding that these animals are important to us and directly dependant on us to survive.

Like I said, this isn't a mean dog issue, it's a protective family/territorial behavior issue with outside members- and it could be a real deal breaker...


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## RecurveRx (Jun 21, 2004)

PuddleJumper said:


> I agree- in my house, dogs are not for playing with or doing tricks. "Playing" in my house is running retrieving drills which my almost six yo daughter does as well as BO. She walks him on heel with or without the leash and she places him on stay, feeds him, and releases him-twice a day, everyday. If he releases before she says, she walks him back to his spot and REALLY makes him wait.
> 
> Not only is that good for the dog but it also teaches responsibilty to the children and an understanding that these animals are important to us and directly dependant on us to survive.
> 
> Like I said, this isn't a mean dog issue, it's a protective family/territorial behavior issue with outside members- and it could be a real deal breaker...


In an earlier post you said the kids "maul" the dog. 

I know it is hard to be objective when a dog is a part of your life and a part of your family. But think about what you just wrote. "This isn't a mean dog issue." 

Like I said, I don't know anything about dog behavior. I took the time to respond because this situation seems eerily similar to the one that my best friend and his family went through in the Spring. They made excuses for their dog's aggressive behavior for nearly a year. Even after he bit someone. Because they loved him. That love resulted in a very unfortunate incident (an incident that EVERYONE that came through their door knew was coming) that finally led them to put the dog down. 

He asked for advice too. It has been my experience that most people really don't want advice, they want confirmation.


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## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

RecurveRx said:


> In an earlier post you said the kids "maul" the dog.
> 
> I know it is hard to be objective when a dog is a part of your life and a part of your family. But think about what you just wrote. "This isn't a mean dog issue."


 That was my take too when I asked where the handyman had just come from.
That's why dogs sterotypically chase mailmen. The mail carrier walks sidewalks all day delivering mail. When people walk their dogs where do they pee? They pee on every mailbox post or corner of a driveway or sidewalk. Mailman walks thru those spots all day long and even though they are dry dog still smells them. Dogs communicate by smell. 
I am not trying to give the OP an out here but just wondering why this time? Yes it is unacceptable behavior, I wouldn't give dog another chance to fail but not sure I would put him down either. Tough spot to be in, good luck.


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## GSP Gal (Nov 12, 2005)

PuddleJumper said:


> This is my exact stance on the issue- If I approve of the guests, you will too. You can bark and sniff and act tough for a minute (not anymore) but you WILL accept the "stranger" into the house. With numerous kid and adult (grown-up) parties and dozens of guests (including the handyman) in our house under his belt, this was his first refusal.
> 
> He did not reach his hand too fast- I have no obvious explanation. See below. The handyman showed no threatening/intimidating behavior to the dog or me. He is a large (tall) man with a very deep voice, thats all.
> 
> ...


 Thank God. Now go into maintenance- confine the dog with strangers entering the house. I know we like the "protection" thing, but more bites occur with family and accepted strangers like handyman, etc. No more introductions, he has learned to take things into his own hands. 
[/COLOR] 
A real threat to your family is going to kill your dog first. Dogs should only be an alarm. A bark or two is enough. Use your .357 for protection. 

Wagging tails don't always mean acceptance. You stated the dog rolled over for the handyman. This is submission-then he got up and bit.

Tricks with kids are ok. Drills or tricks are the same to the dog. Compliance to the human -just because tricks are viewed as useless to us, they are still a command and compliant reponse. 

If you choose to keep this dog. I would encourage you to seek some help with a behaviorist. You missed your clues. Alot of people do.


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## Drifter Saver (Sep 13, 2005)

Priorities are not in the right order if you accept any sort of aggressive behavior from a dog (especially with a child in the house). I don't keep (under any circumstance) an aggressive dog. I also would never place an aggressive dog into another home.

Nothing is worth the potential legal ramifications of a bad incident.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## windknot (Jul 22, 2001)

Couple of things......

First, I try and stay away from hot-button topics usually, as I tend to get very emotional about things I feel strongly about....and this is one. I've been on both sides of your dilemma and I'll share 2 stories from the same incident. 

While working as a Police Officer, I got a call reference a vicious dog in the area of a neighborhood full of kids. As I pulled up, I spotted two things.....an 8 year old boy coming down one road and a 90+ pound German Shepherd coming up a cross road. I was coming fast, but then the German Shepherd saw the kid and started picking up speed. I could see and hear the barking and aggression coming from this dog (as of note, you should know that I owned 2 German Shepherds at the time and one of which was my retired Police K9 dog....so I can read a dog a lot better than the average Joe) the dog was going to get that kid. 

I couldn't get between the dog and the kid and he was oblivious to the danger coming his way. I stopped my car and started yelling...not to the Kid, but to the dog......"Hey you frickin' maniac....COME GET ME!!!" Which at the time seemed like a REALLY smart thing to do (First BAD Decision of the call).....the Kid finally saw me, the dog who was still coming on strong and THANK GOD.....he FROZE in his tracks. If he would have started running, I would have never been able to get to the Kid or the dog before it was too late. But he did stop and the Dog Immediately turned back towards me. I'm still yelling at the top of my lungs, trying to get the dog to keep his attention on me (he does) and now the thing is coming at me doing what looks like 50 mph (Second BAD Decision). It's amazing how quickly a dog moving at full speed can cover a 200 yard gap!!!

I had 4 things on my belt. Radio, expandable baton, Taser and Kimber .45acp cocked and locked. Radio was out of the question.......too long a response time for additional help. Baton - nope.....I know German Shepherds....I'd taken well over 1000 bites in a bite suit (dislocating my arm a couple of times in the process) and knocking a GS in the noggin' is going to do nothing but pissss him off. That left Taser and Kimber. I chose Taser.....I just couldn't bring myself to shoot a GS (THIRD BAD DECISION - I let my emotions get in the way of what I knew was a fact. This dog was trying to kill that kid and now he was trying to kill me). 

Taser was deployed at 12 feet. Both nubs contacted and stopped the threat....till the dog ran away and the little wires snapped off. 

Guess what furry four legged monster was REALLY pisssssssssed now? 

Ever try and do a "combat reload" on a Taser? Doesn't happen. 

From my report (I remember verbatim) "after the animal continued to charge, I discharged my weapon once I was able to aim in a safe direction away from the residences. The animal was dispatched with the first shot." 

What the report didn't say was I ran like a little girl trying to get away from the dog and get back to my car so I didn't have to shoot it (Fourth BAD decision of the call), I went one way around the car, the dog came the other and I popped him before he killed me or killed the kid (FIRST SMART THING I DID ON THE CALL). 

Did I feel good about shooting the dog? I felt good to know that I was safe, the Kid was safe, but I felt like absolute SSHHIITT afterwards, left early and went home and hugged the bejeezus out of my dogs and cried. Why? Because I know that they're animals, and as much as I'd like to think that I know them inside and out, they can change without warning and without explanation...and I hoped to hell that never happened to one of my dogs. 

Second Story: 

The German Shepherd that I dispatched had bitten a pool-repair guy about a year earlier and had done nothing. The day of the incident, another adult had gotten bitten while trimming his shrubs. This all ends up in a police report for the case. Pool guy finds out about it through the neighborhood, gets a copy of the report, shrub guy gets a copy of the report. Both sue the owner of the dog. Homeowners insurance pays out about a half a million to the pool guy (before fees) as his hand/arm was "disabled" by the dog bite (he took it to trial and won big), Shrub guy gets a quarter million and insurance agrees to pay his lawyer fees if he'll just go away. 

Lady loses her house (she's personally sued too) and dont know what happened to her in the end. Crux of the second part of the story is this - I documented the hell out of this case, as I was afraid of a negative news report coming out "bastard police officer shoots loving little doggie" (that never happened thank God) but what that did was provide enough documented proof that there was more than one incident with this dog biting someone. 
_________________________________________________________

What does all this dissertation mean? Here's my take. I suggest you call your homeowners insurance company TODAY, tell them about the handyman and WATCH how fast they cancel your policy or jack your rates so high that you'll never be able to afford them.......

Then I want you to call your Lawyer and tell him about the handyman and ask him how to proceed. Handyman has (I believe - I'm not very up on the civil litigation thing) 2 years to file a suit (lawyers step in if I'm wrong). 

How do our stories connect? You've published on a public forum that your dog has serious aggression issues and has bitten someone and broken the skin. You further documented that there was a past issue with the dog and the very same person that he bit. You've expressed fear (publicly) that this may escalate. You've done a good amount of the documentation yourself (I'm not saying you're wrong.....I'm just suggesting that you're aware of what publishing this does) and this is leaving you with fewer and fewer options. 

My story happened almost 6 years ago and I still cry when I talk (or type) about it....he wasn't my dog, he was going to do me great injury, but I still feel the pain of ending a dog's life. I CANNOT imagine what is going to happen to me when my old K9 partner (Now 14 and failing rapidly) needs to pass over that bridge. But when he goes, I'll know that it's his time.....if he were to bite someone tomorrow, I'd end it without hesitation. It's the right thing to do.

I assure you, if you decide to euthanize your dog, you'll feel like crap...feel like crap for a very long time, but in the end you know that you did what was right for the dog and for your FAMILY. 

I do not envy your position - but I understand it.....I hope that you do as well.


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## RecurveRx (Jun 21, 2004)

Excellent post windknot. Thanks for sharing a difficult story. 

In the age of FB and forums ppl sometimes forget that they're creating public record that will hold up in court.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

GSP Gal said:


> Thank God. Now go into maintenance- confine the dog with strangers entering the house. I know we like the "protection" thing, but more bites occur with family and accepted strangers like handyman, etc. No more introductions, he has learned to take things into his own hands.
> [/COLOR]
> A real threat to your family is going to kill your dog first. Dogs should only be an alarm. A bark or two is enough. Use your .357 for protection.
> 
> ...




Another great post/piece of advice.

Quick story and I'm sure everyone will get the gist. 

At a friends house the other night with a bunch of people, enjoying a few beers, the topic of dogs came up and how well behaved my friends dog was. Everyone then started telling stories about dogs, one fella told story after story of how bad every dog he ever had was....


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## timberdoodle528 (Nov 25, 2003)

windknot said:


> I suggest you call your homeowners insurance company TODAY, tell them about the handyman and WATCH how fast they cancel your policy or jack your rates so high that you'll never be able to afford them.......
> 
> Then I want you to call your Lawyer and tell him about the handyman and ask him how to proceed. Handyman has (I believe - I'm not very up on the civil litigation thing) 2 years to file a suit (lawyers step in if I'm wrong).


windknot makes a couple very good points....


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## spartansbleedgreen (Jan 30, 2006)

Sounds like it is a pattern, so simply...break the pattern. I know some people think Cesar Milan is a quack but I for one believe in his teachings. I have used his approach with my own dogs and the results are amazing. Consistency and control are the key! Obviously you are not in control. Secondly, read your dog. When he starts to get excited (body language, barking, etc) correct it. (sounds like you let your dog approach the handyman in an excited state of mind (lots of tail wagging), and he lashed out). 

set up a scenario where stangers knock, ring the door bell, to ellicit the response and correct it EVERY SINGLE TIME, until it doesn't happen and then practice some more. Simple rule of training, don't expect a dog to do something voluntarilly and always be in a position to make them do what you want. Have the dog leashed in the house on a pinch collar or choke chain. Without saying a word or getting overly aggressive/excited/anxious yourself yank UP on the leash and correct the dog when he exhibits the unwanted behavior. Never let the dog near the guest until in a "calm submissive" mind set. Tail wagging doesn't always mean happy/friendly/pet me, it sometimes means dominance (tail up). don't let the guests interact with the dog until he is calm and relaxed laying down or sitting. Know your dog and read his body language.

It sounds like you yelling just added to his excitement. Yelling and screaming at a dog really does nothing. It's just barking to them. Sometimes our bark is intimidating and is a corrective action, sometimes it just adds to the excitment/anxiety.

Another option is to train the dog to go to its kennel (if you have one) or mat when the doorbell rings or there is a knock on the door. It must stay there until the excitement that is produced from a stranger/guest entering subsides.

It really boils down the being in control and the dog understanding its role that any and all humans are alpha. I hope this all makes sense and you give it a try before putting your dog down. I hate hearing stories that end up like that, but I understand aggression is unacceptable as well.


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

agression is agression regardless of the cause. he should be put down forthwith.

you may also find yourself served with a subpoena for a law suit. that will be an educational experience.

also the bite must be reported to animal control. it will be if the repairman seeks medical attention.

im glad i'm not in your shoes.


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## Peterson (Jun 19, 2010)

There is a difference between a protective dog and an aggressive dog.
You are that difference.
Considering the degree of aggression, if you have not taken the pack leader position by the time the dog is three years old...I'm afraid that you never will.

Choices are now limited.
Changing the present behavior would seem a large task with this dog given his particulars....any decision hinges on the particulars.
Passing on an aggressive dog to another w/o all facts put into evidence would be criminal.
Keeping the dog in a seperate room from strangers is not a good plan for another 10 years and it does not allow for accidents.
Kenneling outside may not be an option.
While a call for blue juice seems too easy, the possibilities of increasing aggression with strangers/dogs, let alone your own kids, and the liability issues today makes a tough decision understandable.

No one on a BB can know the true situation a keyboard away but most of us are dog owners and few share their words lightly.
I wish you and your family the best.


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

May have missed it, but I think you only had this problem with the handyman. If so maybe you want to listen to your dog and get rid of the handyman
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gina Fox (Nov 4, 2007)

This is a tough one. But all the experts agree that an agressive dog cannot be trusted. Chessies ( and I don't want to hear from the Chessie breeders/owners) are known to be agressive dogs. The intact male thing is not helping. I hate to see a dog destroyed because he met and bit a person. There ARE ways to introduce dogs to strangers. My recommendation is never face on...it is like a show down. The same with introducing him to other dogs. they should never be on leashes face to face. Side to side is the correct way. Crates are a must for dogs like this. But I ask you this. If your dog is agressive when people other than family come over and agressive to other dogs then really, what kind of enjoyment can you get from having him? Sporting dogs be they pointers,setters, flushers or retrievers are bred to be man's companion in the field. They should be able to work with other dogs too. Sorry to say there are many dogs that end up this way and their owners adapt to them....not good. 
I have a Golden that boards with me...this dog needs the blue shot in the worst way, you would not believe what his owners put up with, he is ruining those folks for another dog in the future. He bites, he is neurotic and destructive and I don't know how he made it to 6 years old. I don't envy your position. But if you keep him, neuter him immediately and get rid of some of those male hormones...that is his first problem.


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## GSP Gal (Nov 12, 2005)

Thank you for sharing that story. What a tough situation to be in.

We all are on this forum because of our passion and love for our canines. No other animal species has earned the right and privilege to share our homes, furniture, and lives like the canine. We can be in awe with their intuition and instinct. And sometimes that close relationship is their undoing. We forget that they are dogs, not humans. I heard somewhere that we hold the canine in esteem because they are the only animal that attempts to communicate through eye contact. 

I have been down that road with a lawsuit over a dog bite. The person that was bitten was a roommate that had been told not to let all the dogs (his and mine) run loose at once. He did anyway. The dog fight ensued, and he was bitten trying to break it up. One tooth mark. He carried his dog to the car to go to the vet. The dog required stitches. He lost his job a week later. Trying to use the dog bite, I was sued -for him losing his job. He was asking for $150,000. My homeowners insurance was cancelled shortly after that. Do you know how much your insurance is in the State of Michigan Insurance Pool? $2500 a year. If you can't afford it, you sell your house. The depositions were a nightmare. He couldn't prove I cost him his job, so he got $10,000 in "go away money". Your homeowners insurance will not fight for you. $10,000 for one tooth mark, I lost my house.* If you can learn from this do so.*

My dogs do not greet people. They are very friendly, but I don't take chances anymore. They bark a few times, they are put up.


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## RecurveRx (Jun 21, 2004)

Since we bought our house, I have carried a 1 million liability insurance rider. It even extends to our automobiles. Cheap (it really is affordable) peace of mind. 

Wave a million dollars in front of someone's face and thoughts of a law suit typically go out the window.


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## Michihunter (Jan 8, 2003)

RecurveRx said:


> Since we bought our house, I have carried a 1 million liability insurance rider. It even extends to our automobiles. Cheap (it really is affordable) peace of mind.
> 
> Wave a million dollars in front of someone's face and thoughts of a law suit typically go out the window.


Not to get off topic but I think a few lawyers might disagree. You just gave them about a 100% guarantee of payment on any lawsuit. And from the experiences I have in that regard, the more you are insured for the higher the monetary amount they will seek.


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## RecurveRx (Jun 21, 2004)

Yes, it is guarenteed. A guarenteed out of court settlement. 

Could they seek more? Sure, but they would have to go to court to get it.


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## k9wernet (Oct 15, 2007)

PuddleJumper said:


> "Playing" in my house is running retrieving drills which my almost six yo daughter does as well as BO. She walks him on heel with or without the leash and she places him on stay, feeds him, and releases him-twice a day, everyday. If he releases before she says, she walks him back to his spot and REALLY makes him wait.


Tonight I was unloading the car when my 3 year old daughter came out to "help." She didn't get the screen door shut all the way, and my EP pushed it open and bolted. The dog was half a block away before you could blink.

Without a word from me, my daughter shouted, "Maddie HERE" (well, really it was more like "Maddie HEWE"). That dog turned on a dime and trotted right back up onto the porch. 

I'm not sure who I was more proud of!


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## Michihunter (Jan 8, 2003)

RecurveRx said:


> Yes, it is guarenteed. A guarenteed out of court settlement.
> 
> Could they seek more? Sure, but they would have to go to court to get it.


Do you honestly think your insurance company cares whether or not it's a lawsuit or out of court settlement they paid when they figure your new rates?:16suspect


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## RecurveRx (Jun 21, 2004)

Michihunter said:


> Do you honestly think your insurance company cares whether or not it's a lawsuit or out of court settlement they paid when they figure your new rates?:16suspect


NO. But I will still have a house and the rest of my assets.


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## Michihunter (Jan 8, 2003)

RecurveRx said:


> NO. But I will still have a house and the rest of my assets.


Gotcha.


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## RecurveRx (Jun 21, 2004)

k9wernet said:


> Tonight I was unloading the car when my 3 year old daughter came out to "help." She didn't get the screen door shut all the way, and my EP pushed it open and bolted. The dog was half a block away before you could blink.
> 
> Without a word from me, my daughter shouted, "Maddie HERE" (well, really it was more like "Maddie HEWE"). That dog turned on a dime and trotted right back up onto the porch.
> 
> I'm not sure who I was more proud of!


 
Atta girl!


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## chewy (Mar 27, 2006)

What you need to do is have the vet pull all his teeth. Then he can bite anything he wants.


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

the point is, avoid the situation and you avoid the litigation. even an out of court settlement is extremely stressful. i have a very large rider too, part of my farm policy, but i dont want to use it. i dont see any place in this world for vicious dogs. i had one of my own bite me many years ago. i put him down forthwith. i've had many more since then and they are all everyones friend. it's one of the things i look for in choosing a pup. i pass on shy, timid or agressive dogs.


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## Ronald G. Mitchell (Sep 18, 2009)

I agree with the other replies this is a bad situation. One of the reasons I breed Llewellins is because it is a rare thing for one to be agressive. I had a Setter more than 30 years ago that had never been agressive in any manner until we brought our new born son home from the hospital. We had several problems with him until our son was about three months old and then the dog settled down. 
I do think it is a protection issue more so than an aggression issue but I have not been around the dog to see how this started. If it is a protection issue you should be able to train him to be better. I don't know how the problem started or how long it has been an issue so it would be hard for me to give any in depth advice. I hope this works out for you. 
When guards dogs are trained most of the time they will allow anyone to enter the house they just can't leave with you allowing it. Just a thought on a direction you might take him. 
Good luck
Ronnie


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## Mickey Finn (Jan 21, 2005)

The dog should be taking its cues from you. Not acting on it's own. Thats not happening and the dog is showing aggression to someone welcome in your home. 

What else is there to consider?

ATB


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## I'm with Brandy (Aug 5, 2007)

A Dog Owner's Legal Defenses http://doglaw.hugpug.com/doglaw_082.html

Several years ago one of my dogs bit a guy. The guy jumped the fence in our back yard both my kids ages 6 and 8 at the time were out in the yard. I was inside the house and heard the dog going nuts. I went to the back door to see my 55lb dog hanging on this guys arm. I called the dog off. The guy apologized for being in the yard. Something was not right with the picture so I called 911 and the operator told me the police were chasing a guy that had robbed a store. About ten minutes later the guy turned him self into the police. I saw him holding his arm. I was worried about a law suit so I contacted a lawyer right away. The officer told me the skin was not broken but the guy complained it hurt. The guy never filed a suit. It was the only time my dog had ever tried to bite someone.

I no longer have the dog he died at the age of 13 from cancer.


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## gonzos (Oct 26, 2007)

YEP!!!


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

my wife works for a very large insurance company. she deals with structured settlements, the way most insurance claims of this type are paid out- a form of annuity. she tells me the majority of them are for dog bites.abd the amounts are substantial.

an insurance co can drop you for too many auto claims and i'm sure they can drop you for something like this.

chessies have a reputation for agressiveness. they were bred to retrieve waterfowl for market hunters but also to guard their gear.

i dont know why people get so attached to their dogs that they wont eliminate them for aggressiveness.


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## anon442018 (Jul 12, 2010)

I am new to this forum but we have had CBRs for more than twenty years. The three most important things about the breed are; temperament, temperament and temperament. This is NOT an understatement. We have two Chessies at our house. The female is 4 y.o., 82 lbs. and spayed. The male is 19 mos. old, 105 lbs. and is intact. He will be neutered soon. Both of the dogs have taken multiple obedience classes and they have passed the Canine Good Citizen test. I use them when I do volunteer work with elementary school children. They spend time with special needs students. We continue to work on the obedience phase each day. Neither dog is allowed to eat until they sit, and perform some other commands given by the handler.

The female hunts and the male will start this fall. Chessies need work and they need to know they are not the alpha in the house where they live. I know there are folks who think they need a big tough Chessie for hunting or for the house. Some of those folks permit some aggression by their dogs. There is no room for this. Correction must be fair and quickly doled out. I do NOT believe in being heavy-handed with our dogs.

We don't know what type of owner the previous owner was. Dogs can pick up some bad habits in a couple of years with someone. The check and balance system here work well on the two dogs we have. We do not permit any nonsense from these two dogs. It is rewarding to hear from folks when they compliment us on our dogs. We work with them everyday. I wish you well with your situation. The first thing I would do is to neuter the dog. It may take up to six months for the testosterone levels to drop. Work the dog and show him love and affection. 

Stinger


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

you are probably selecting breeding based on temperment. not everyone does that and chessies have a reputation for aggression.


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

Just to throw the monkey wrench into the mix. I know of a woman, a veterinarian, who got chomped on the face by one of her friends' dogs a number of years ago. She was kneeling down and trying to pet the dog when it reached out and chomped her.

She got scars on her face, sued her friends', got surgury and I believe another $50,000 on top of that for her to do whatever she wished with.

My understanding is that the situation that caused all of this was something similar to what's shown in the video below...

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHLnjiISsOo"]YouTube- Untamed and Uncut: Attack Dog Bites Reporter[/nomedia]


Now we can talk about how smart the vet was in getting herself in that position, she's supposed to know how to behave around dogs, but it does serve as an example of how easy it can be to get sued if your pooch misbehaves.

The courts don't care how stupid your guests are, the cards are stacked against you and your dog if something happens. 

Get a handle on this dog or get rid of it.


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## GSP Gal (Nov 12, 2005)

WestCoastHunter said:


> Just to throw the monkey wrench into the mix. I know of a woman, a veterinarian, who got chomped on the face by one of her friends' dogs a number of years ago. She was kneeling down and trying to pet the dog when it reached out and chomped her.
> 
> She got scars on her face, sued her friends', got surgury and I believe another $50,000 on top of that for her to do whatever she wished with.
> 
> ...


to add to the story above, a very good friend of mine is a manager at the big kennel. She has handled dogs all of her adult life, and one of their regular clients' dog was in while they were on vacation. My friend had handled this dog on many occasions without incident, and so as she was bathing the dog, preparing it to go home, it bit her excatly like the Shepard did in the video. When the owners picked up the dog, they had admitted that the dog had been subject to behavior issues recently, but never thought to tell the kennel about it. My friend only had to have some stitches in her forehead, but still.....and she is what I consider a good dog handler....

again, they are animals and we cannot always read what they are telling us.


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## augustus0603 (Oct 24, 2005)

dogwhistle said:


> my wife works for a very large insurance company. she deals with structured settlements, the way most insurance claims of this type are paid out- a form of annuity. she tells me the majority of them are for dog bites.abd the amounts are substantial.
> 
> an insurance co can drop you for too many auto claims and i'm sure they can drop you for something like this.
> 
> ...


I represent 8 different home insurance carriers. If they find out about your dog has bitten someone past or present, they will not insure you unless you no longer own that dog. 

Obviously they would pay on any claim you have, but after it's closed, they'll non renew your policy.


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## Peterson (Jun 19, 2010)

dogwhistle said:


> ....i dont know why people get so attached to their dogs that they wont eliminate them for aggressiveness.


 
I understand why....as well as why the ultimate decision can be so difficult.
That you don't understand either is not at all surprising.

There are tough decisions that can be considered tougher if we are forced to see that we, ourselves as the dog's owner, may well share part of the blame. 
Quite honestly, the thread starter can easily read the direction that the majority here believe is indicated and the reasons for it. 
But, in some other form or to some additional degree, there could go I.
I hope all is well at the original poster's house.


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

i put down two dogs in the past year, one was only three and an excellent dog. i thought highly of each of them, but putting down dogs for various reason comes with owning a dog. few decicions in life are easy. i also had to ship a horse for meat, he had an abcess in his hoof that would not clear up despite several visits to the vet.

i grew up on a farm where you learn to make those tough decisions at an early age. our fair is in progress, kids will be selling livestock that they have cared for for a year or or more to be slaughtered for meat. most of them show a very mature attitude about it.


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

dogwhistle said:


> i put down two dogs in the past year, one was only three and an excellent dog. i thought highly of each of them, but putting down dogs for various reason comes with owning a dog. .


How many dogs have you put down for aggressiveness and what were the reasons for putting down the 2 dogs in the last year,, if you don't mind me asking?


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## Peterson (Jun 19, 2010)

Dog ownership carries all forms of responsibility, some of which entail tough decisions.
The fella starting this thread found one such. 
I understand.
Others speak of horses, kids and fair animals.
They say they do not understand.
I agree. 
A lot of us grew up on farms and around livestock yet still manage to understand "why" even when we know when tough is the call.
Maturity often is shown best in understanding.


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

dogwhistle said:


> i put down two dogs in the past year, one was only three and an excellent dog. i thought highly of each of them, but putting down dogs for various reason comes with owning a dog. few decicions in life are easy. i also had to ship a horse for meat, he had an abcess in his hoof that would not clear up despite several visits to the vet.
> 
> i grew up on a farm where you learn to make those tough decisions at an early age. our fair is in progress, kids will be selling livestock that they have cared for for a year or or more to be slaughtered for meat. most of them show a very mature attitude about it.


50 years and and have owned dogs almost all of them, and outside of old age or illness, have never had to put one down..............thinking your attitude may have an impact on your actions.
As for comparing livestock to dogs, doesn't even make sense.

To each their own. I have a mutt that we put almost 4,000 dollars into her back legs resulting in her still being around and healthy at 10 years old. Some would think that is crazy.

For some the "Easy" decision is to put a dog down, for others the tough decision is doing what is necessary to fulfill an obligation when you took on a dog.

She loves her mom, and I'm just glad it wasn't 10,000 dollars or I would still be paying on her.


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## Michihunter (Jan 8, 2003)

2PawsRiver said:


> 50 years and and have owned dogs almost all of them, and outside of old age or illness, have never had to put one down..............thinking your attitude may have an impact on your actions.
> As for comparing livestock to dogs, doesn't even make sense.
> 
> To each their own. I have a mutt that we put almost 4,000 dollars into her back legs resulting in her still being around and healthy at 10 years old. Some would think that is crazy.
> ...


I agree 100%. BTW- That ain't one of the "handymans" arm or leg bones sitting there between your wife and the dog is it?:evilsmile:evilsmile


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

William H Bonney said:


> How many dogs have you put down for aggressiveness and what were the reasons for putting down the 2 dogs in the last year,, if you don't mind me asking?


i put down one of my own for aggressivness. i also required some people to put down a dog that bit me or i would charge them.

of the dogs in the past year, one was 12 and had a disease that formed fluid around her heart. she was an average grouse dog but deadly on woodcock.

the otherr was a 3 yr old daughter of a r/u natl ch, 2 times champion. she was an outstanding dog. she contracted liver disease according two vets and finally went dramaticaly downhilll in a few days.

i also put down a highly valued horse due to old age- he was 35 and shipped one for meat that had acquired a hoof abcess that we couldnt clear.

i was 8 when my first animal died, a shorhorn heifer. i went crying to my grandad and he told me "be glad it didnt come in the house" excellent advice. if you own enough animals, some are going to die. many people have advised to put this dog down. there is no place in the world for an aggressivve. k9s are a different story but they should only be aggressive on command.


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

*Every *dog has the potential to bite and will if pushed.

It's why you should not let your kids wrestle with the dog or mess with the dog while it's sleeping and even eating.

It's also why you should not invite people to try and pet your dog.

My wife watched a 5 year old horse get put down the other day. It's a part of her profession. As she put it, she'd be happy if she could live the rest of her life and not see that again. The horse's owner had put literally thousands of dollars into the animal and had they had more, some time and an expensive surgury probably would have saved it, but the owner had to make an economic decision. Sometimes you have to worry about the big picture and worry about your other animals and family.

The same applies to an aggressive dog and the potential financial ramifications if can have on a person's family and any present and future animals they are responsible for. I'm not saying this dog should or should not be put down, but I'd be weighing some costs and benefits if I were the owner.


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## PuddleJumper (Sep 23, 2009)

Well, as the original poster, I can shed some light and give an update on this issue. Since the post, the dog did get nuetered, spent all it's time in the kennel when "strange" males (not family or the usuals) came over, and had an in-house aggression evaluation by a Chessie trainer- thanks to an offer by a member of this site.

To understand the results you must first understand a fact about guarding & non-guarding breeds:

There *is* a difference between "aggression" and "protection" behavior. "Guarding" is an inherent quality bred into the breed that most "non-guarding" dog owners can not relate to. The subsequent conditioning and training of this behavior is different for breeds of the guarding nature vs. those breeds where this behavior has not been bred in.

The results:
1. The dog has not/will not get put down. I don't need to start an arguement here- it is my dog and my opinion. If the dog turned on his family or was in unbearable pain, that's a different story. I don't run a petting farm- you dont *need*
to pet/meet my dog.

2. The dog showed no signs of aggression with the trainer (they seem to know not to mess with the dog whisperer type) and, in fact, was the opposite showing good obedience, temperment, and trainability 

3. I know what the dog *can* do, I may never know what conditions triggered the response

4. Upon the advice of the trainer, I will be stepping up the obedience training and start working on more training at the door and have enrolled in some group Chessie sessions

5. Unless you are a Chessie owner, the dog whisperer type, a hunting/training buddy, or a burglar, you will probably never be allowed to "meet" the dog

Thanks for all that offered their opinions and help whether it was soft or hard. Because of the high number of views on this thread, I thought it necessary to give an update. I will be sure to give any further information in the future if it can help any other dog and/or owner in this situation.


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

Glad to hear things are going well. :chillin:


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## windknot (Jul 22, 2001)

PuddleJumper......

No arguments from me. The important thing that I'm sure EVERYONE will acknowledge is you *DID SOMETHING* Ours is not the place to judge, you asked for our advice - and you got a LOT of it....but you did something about it. 

Congrats and Great Luck in the future with your friend!!!!


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

i caught the thread late.

it's a personal decision that's up to the owner.

i've had to put one dog down due to aggression. it was 2.5 years old. it took me too long to make the decision. 

In the end, the hardest part was that inevitably, i was partially to blame.

i didn't feel as though i was directly responsible for the behavior. but i wasn't receptive enough to the early warning signs, and therefore, was complicit. it was bad all the way around. bad for those involved, bad for the dog, and definitely bad for our household that had to deal with the stress of dealing with the conflict that would arise for certain house guests.

there's only two options in this scenario - deal with the dog in your household as you're doing, or put the dog down. some people would not be able to accept the difficulty of that situation, and would let the dog go to another owner to avoid making the decision.

i sincerely wish you the best of luck in your efforts.


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## junebug (Sep 25, 2008)

dogwhistle said:


> i put down two dogs in the past year, one was only three and an excellent dog. i thought highly of each of them, but putting down dogs for various reason comes with owning a dog. few decicions in life are easy. i also had to ship a horse for meat, he had an abcess in his hoof that would not clear up despite several visits to the vet.
> 
> i grew up on a farm where you learn to make those tough decisions at an early age. our fair is in progress, kids will be selling livestock that they have cared for for a year or or more to be slaughtered for meat. most of them show a very mature attitude about it.


I agree dogs are livestock, they can't live with humans they must be put down. Have good friend that likes chessies. I've put down 3 of the 5 for him. They had bitten family members and strangers. Dogs are animals don't ever trust them. I won't say mine won't bite, but they won't bite twice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chewy (Mar 27, 2006)

I know people who put down 5 to ten dogs a year. they are wash outs and he is licensed to do it.


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## Socks (Jan 8, 2007)

PuddleJumper said:


> Well, as the original poster, I can shed some light and give an update on this issue. Since the post, the dog did get nuetered, spent all it's time in the kennel when "strange" males (not family or the usuals) came over, and had an in-house aggression evaluation by a Chessie trainer- thanks to an offer by a member of this site.
> 
> To understand the results you must first understand a fact about guarding & non-guarding breeds:
> 
> ...


Sounds like you did the right thing. I hope you're not ever in this situation again.


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