# 2021 Waterfowl Digest is out



## Urriah (Jul 26, 2013)

Digest came out yesterday in case folks haven't seen it yet. Managed Area reserved hunt applications start August 1st.

www.michigan.gov/waterfowl


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

note big change in reserved hunt applications
reserved hunts are now the first TWO weekends in all except Pt Mouillee (1st weekend only)


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## Grampski (Jan 28, 2015)

i see they finally changed the zones like they said they were going to


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## Urriah (Jul 26, 2013)

Grampski said:


> i see they finally changed the zones like they said they were going to


They changed them right on schedule. 2021 was always to be the first year; 5 year cycle for changes like that with the feds.


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## propbuster (Mar 4, 2004)

1st two weekends are reserved? Why? Never heard that was even being discussed. Now many weekend hunters will need to wait until the 3rd weekend to have a chance to hunt.


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## Sampsons_owner (Dec 30, 2005)

I dont recall hearing about the first 2 weekends being reserved discussed by CWAC or anywhere. Very interesting. Steve


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## Bertslash (Sep 3, 2011)

I get the whole “more hunter opportunities” point, not that it will work. But why have 2 weekends reserved? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

Back to AM and PM draws. Glad to see that.
1 Bluebill until November. That's a tough one.


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## Swamp Boss (Mar 14, 2003)

Thank you Urriah! I have been looking for this info for awhile!


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

Urriah said:


> They changed them right on schedule. 2021 was always to be the first year; 5 year cycle for changes like that with the feds.



as to the move to reserved hunting for the first two weekends, I agree, I never heard a peep about that
must be a MIDNR move - easier administration, or a spreading of wealth move
a surprise to me, and obviously others

with 36 different hunts, optimists might say chances of 'scoring' will increase, maybe more than double the success rate. so wait and see. obviously, drawn last of 35 if you get a permit on the 2nd weekend will be better than drawn 75th of 85 in an open draw that weekend.

but I hear ya when weekend only hunters fear not hunting managed area until the 3rd weekend. but you can hunt the 2nd weekend of south zone if you go to saginaw bay managed areas, that will be their 3rd, no permits required.

good luck to you, and all


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

The two weekend option was discussed for a while. I tried telling them that it would be best to allow people to apply for BOTH weekends…just pay $5 for each application. But I was told it’s too complicated and expensive to make that change.

Two draws a day blows. Last year was by far the best quality hunting I and many others experienced. They are creating a work group to look at all future managed operations. I won’t go down that rabbit hole any further.

The chances of a more restrictive season are very real due to production areas in the US and Canada. Honestly. It wouldn’t bother me one bit. I’ll take 45/6 and be perfectly happy.


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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

5 geese for the whole season!


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

i was aware of a discussion on the 2 weekend reserved a few months ago...but im not aware of any public discussion on it where they gathered any input.


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## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

Very happy that 2 draws a day are back. I spend a lot of time at the managed units and only managed to get one top 10 pick last season. Very excited to not have 80+ parties at every draw.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

ajkulish said:


> Very happy that 2 draws a day are back. I spend a lot of time at the managed units and only managed to get one top 10 pick last season. Very excited to not have 80+ parties at every draw.


I can only speak for Shiawassee. Buuuuut draw order means very little. I understand it’s a lot more important at places that are much more limited like Harsens and FP.


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

Jerry Lamb said:


> 5 geese for the whole season!


how many on your lawn, jerry?

37 on mine this morning! haha


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## ih772 (Jan 28, 2003)

I'm glad two draws a days are back. Last year I was only able to get a zone 25% I was in the draw. When it is two a day I'm able to get a zone to hunt in that day 95% of the time.

Two weekends of reserved hunts is BS. It takes opportunities away to hunt the managed areas for those of us that can't take a day off M-F.


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## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

craigrh13 said:


> I can only speak for Shiawassee. Buuuuut draw order means very little. I understand it’s a lot more important at places that are much more limited like Harsens and FP.


You are right, Shi is kind of its own beast though. Lots of room, lots of variety. Those local who can scout or are well-networked certainly do better in poor draws. 

I have always been a person who embraces bad picks and unpopular zones. In fact, I have never scratched at Harsens. Pre-rona, on a bad draw, I would still be picking from a few of my back pocket zones. Last year, more than a handful of times, I found myself standing around the board not knowing if I would even get a spot. My best last year was 106/106. Took one of 3 zones left. I get exploring, and learning, but some of these zones are unpopular for a reason.

I am ready to go back to my usual bad draw of 47th, and still have a few options.


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## Divers Down (Mar 31, 2008)

Can someone please explain "reserved hunt"?
So i pay$5 and get drawn...my choice on day/zone or both?
Is the rest of my party out? I have to hunt alone because i won?
Never applied before.


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## Reef runner (Jan 21, 2020)

You get to be in the draw on a reserved weekend. Last year it was only Opening weekend. Fish point is limited to 35 parties for Morning and Pm draws. There will only be 35 parties in the entire place 
Instead of all the zones


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

craigrh13 said:


> So the DNR is supposed to release PR on every change they implement every year? I think some people need to calm their nipples just a bit.


they do for just about every other change, lol. they didn't announce this or say **** about it because of the bad feedback it woulda got. they took a weekend away from 99% of the public (again) with no public comment. its pretty simple concept to work with CWAC on stuff and you know this.


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

I have not checked this thread for awhile

all I can say is WOW

I am sitting here with my 10' pole - ain't touchin it!

what I can safely (I hope) say is this....

1. whether it is 1 draw or 2 draws, your happiness with either system is directly proportional to how high in the draw you come out

2. in 2018, and for years prior, I never saw one single comment in any thread I watched where someone blasted the 2/14 system, saying it should be 1/6 or 1/7. apparently the 2/14 wasn't broke


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

TheHighLIfe said:


> I have not checked this thread for awhile
> 
> all I can say is WOW
> 
> ...


1) Again. I can only speak for Shi. But I completely disagree with that statement. Draw order isn’t that big of a deal to me. 
2) You’re right. I thought I was gonna hate the 1 draw a day. Then I experienced it. The quality of hunt was so much better and if I’m driving 150 miles every time I hunt there I care about having a quality hunt. I wouldn’t drive there if the hunting was garbage.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> they do for just about every other change, lol. they didn't announce this or say **** about it because of the bad feedback it woulda got. they took a weekend away from 99% of the public (again) with no public comment. its pretty simple concept to work with CWAC on stuff and you know this.


The response I got was there were numerous changes across the board for hunting all game. Did they release PR for all those changes? No.


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

craigrh13 said:


> 1) Again. I can only speak for Shi. But I completely disagree with that statement. Draw order isn’t that big of a deal to me.
> 2) You’re right. I thought I was gonna hate the 1 draw a day. Then I experienced it. The quality of hunt was so much better and if I’m driving 150 miles every time I hunt there I care about having a quality hunt. I wouldn’t drive there if the hunting was garbage.


1. yes, shi and often fp offer a number of good spots even with bad draws. and even all of the other managed units do if you are hunting every day and are totally in tune with where birds are working in less popular zones

my question to you is... 'if you were on top of things at shi, knew exactly where birds were dive bombing (exclude the woods, etc, I am talking only about a corn strip), really wanted that strip, and you were drawn #1, would you scratch?' 

2. many others are also into quality hunts and also drive 150 miles, but don't have 'secret backup spots' like you/i do. if they had to hunt a zone or only knew to hunt zoned strips and marked potholes, and were drawn 80th in a once a day draw, would they have a quality hunt?

seems like you have a 'personal take' that I suspect represents only about 15% of hunters - and yes, I am one of those, fortunately (21 birds drawn 75th/77 one time last year tho we quit 3 hours early - not an uncommon thing at all for me to limit when drawn 50th or worse)

but most hunters I see, talk with, and read on here have a single focus, limited experience and narrow knowledge, and rely solely on getting good draws. when they take a day off work and get screwed in the am, my guess is they really appreciate that second chance

I was a weekend hunter relying solely on good draws for decades, so I know what it is like in their shoes
I personally don't mind one draw - with a bad draw, butterfly weather, wise birds, and nothing working in my secret backup spots, I can go home, 5 miles, and work on projects

but this is not about me

the 'weekend/draw is the sole determinate of a quality hunt' hunters contribute to the revenues, and raise kids to carry on the tradition. so while I don't need a second draw at all most days, I feel the less fortunate (less experienced, less local knowledge) hunters should have a 1/45 chance plus a 1/50 second chance of a good draw, versus only one 1/85

when my son was starting, we would go to Harsen's Island draws for the weekend (close to or sometimes over 100 in both draws in those days). even with 4 draws, we rarely got a top 40 pick. not many opportunities, he didn't fire many shells. that happened almost every weekend one year. I could see his interest waning. wound up taking him to the public marsh at nayanquing, giving him 2 boxes of shells, distancing us from other hunters, and letting him shoot til his barrel melted. he has turned out to be a 'surprising if he misses' shot who loves every day 

and he has brought in 12-15 friends who had never hunted - most of whom now attend banquets and spend money now that they have good jobs. all these kids talk about is getting a good draw. last year, with only one draw, many kids not hunting with my son or I, got 2 bad draws (one kid dead last or near it 6 draws in a row) went home after an entire weekend, having fired only 1-3 times altho out hunting for 15 or so hours. the disappointment on their faces was clear.

when my son started, had Harsen's Island been 1 draw, had I not taken him away from the draws, my son might not be carrying on our tradition, nor his friends, and all of their children to come

yes, you and I don't need 2 draws - we are the 15%

I believe the future of our sport does

hoping cwac considers all (100%) hunters, not just 'special ones'


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

From what I was told it was pretty close to 50/50 on feedback To the DNR on the 1/2 draw issue. Slightly favoring 2 draws. Either way. In the end. It doesn’t matter. You either want to hunt or you don’t. 

I’m curious how many hunter trips are made up
Of the hardcore guys at each area throughout the season? You might be surprised at how many trips are accounted for by a small population.


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## lastflight (Aug 16, 2005)

craigrh13 said:


> You might be surprised at how many trips are accounted for by a small population.


And those guys are going to hunt regardless. It's the "other" guys that are being considered here.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

I'm the other guy.

I know my way around Shiawassee but don't have my finger on the day to day to day pulse. I like to get there around dawn listen for the shooting and glass the best I can. If I have crew we divide and conquer. This works very well as I take one day off a week for all of season and usually there's 10-15 parties in a weekday pm draw.

This works at other units too with FP and NP even easier to scout.

What doesn't work is getting up at 2 and driving 200 miles and having 80 parties in one draw. Or 100. So I work around it.

Last year there was no working around it.

I'm the guy that hunts managed units about 20 times a year. I hit every one but Harsens each year, as I'm not driving 4 hours to sit in a empty marsh on draw 100. NP a couple times, Shiawassee a half dozen, Muskegon a lot, Fennville if I have to.

So what happened last year? I hunted Muskegon 11 times, Fennville once.

I did not bring any new people into any managed unit.

I was due to the wisdom of Muskegon in hosting pm hunts able to sponsor Bump Racer, Fish Fighter, AJ, and Lumber Jay on our annual hunts and birds were killed and brats eaten and Peyronie's disease and how it applies to setting a spread explained to an incredulous youth sharing the other half of our field.

But I did not go across the state to hunt.

I will also state in watching this and other forums it was very evident last year that other than MWW it seemed with the influx of new hunters, the regulars were cold and treated THEIR areas as their private hunt clubs. Much frustration noted, little true help offered. Hell I was taking the Miata scouting and handing off Intel on MWW on days I wasn't hunting, and giving 100% honest reports to other parties on days I was. Never amounted to anything as we all drew badly...


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> I will also state in watching this and other forums it was very evident last year that other than MWW it seemed with the influx of new hunters, the regulars were cold and treated THEIR areas as their private hunt clubs. Much frustration noted, little true help offered. Hell I was taking the Miata scouting and handing off Intel on MWW on days I wasn't hunting, and giving 100% honest reports to other parties on days I was. Never amounted to anything as we all drew badly...


i think thats a product of limiting the amount of hunting. the tighter it gets the more you will see locals clamp down on their information.

i was open with anyone that pm'd me during last season. i mean i have probably 50 pm threads on last season with guys on here...but i did not give up any honey holes obviously because i had literally 8 less chances of getting into those holes per week.


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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

I was free with advice too regarding Harsens but the 100+ parties precluded almost all of the inquirers getting a chance to actually hunt it.
I did send a few to some old spots on the north end of the lake that I used to hunt the last time the water was high. They got some birds.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

You've always been cool with info and by info I mean the theory and execution of the trends there. Not "what zone you been hitting?"

Last hunt at MWW last year told BRX that it was 29a, or 31a, and then throw a dart at a corn field. If he drew before me take those as all six trucks last night were watching them and it's not a secret. No sleeper back pocket zone. Draw one 29a, draw 2 31a, I ran traffic between them in 30 and did ok in dirt, all the geese went to 37 which no one took. Which may be why they went there...


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## BumpRacerX (Dec 31, 2009)

Still haven't figured out what I'm putting down for my #1 and #2 choices in the reserved lotto. Moving NQP and FP to the middle + adding the second weekend has complicated things for me. To further complicate things, NQP has their youth non-reserved on October 16th, which I think might be opening weekend for the fields of glory at MWW.

Last years system had good/bad for me. On the plus side...Drove to MWW quite a few trips hunting multiple afternoons as they had a PM draw. It was fun being able to scout in the AM and then try to predict where the birds were going to be in the PM. Started the year with three dozen silos. Now have twelve dozen. Took tons of notes. Learned a lot. Had a great time every trip. Didn't always kill birds, but we worked them every trip. 

On the bad side...it killed hunting any place other than NQP/MWW for me. Is what it is.


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## BumpRacerX (Dec 31, 2009)

How any people put in for the opening weekend (or now opening two weekends) reserved hunts? Looks like 1304 available spots to be drawn. Just curious as to what the actual % of entries are picked.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

BumpRacerX said:


> How any people put in for the opening weekend (or now opening two weekends) reserved hunts? Looks like 1304 available spots to be drawn. Just curious as to what the actual % of entries are picked.


I have the numbers and stats for each draw and area somewhere. But it’s roughly 3,000-4,000.


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## RiverRanger (Aug 23, 2006)

Just curious but does anyone know if they are going to let singles in the draw (Except the reserved draw) and let them choose any field they want till two singles fill a field. Like they did pre COVID?


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

RiverRanger said:


> Just curious but does anyone know if they are going to let singles in the draw (Except the reserved draw) and let them choose any field they want till two singles fill a field. Like they did pre COVID?


i'm not 100% positive on this but i do remember discussing it earlier this year. they may have kept the covid version where singles could pick anywhere. If they do fallback to pre-covid shiawassee will have single rule where they can pick 1 party field before its locked to other single parties...if that makes sense. again, i'm not sure which version they are sticking with this year.

i'll do some asking around and see if i can get answer and report back


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## daddyduck (Nov 2, 2001)

I hope its pre-covid . That was nice to be able to pick any zone as a single


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## RiverRanger (Aug 23, 2006)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> i'm not 100% positive on this but i do remember discussing it earlier this year. they may have kept the covid version where singles could pick anywhere. If they do fallback to pre-covid shiawassee will have single rule where they can pick 1 party field before its locked to other single parties...if that makes sense. again, i'm not sure which version they are sticking with this year.
> 
> i'll do some asking around and see if i can get answer and report back


Thanks Kid


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> i'm not 100% positive on this but i do remember discussing it earlier this year. they may have kept the covid version where singles could pick anywhere. If they do fallback to pre-covid shiawassee will have single rule where they can pick 1 party field before its locked to other single parties...if that makes sense. again, i'm not sure which version they are sticking with this year.





daddyduck said:


> I hope its pre-covid . That was nice to be able to pick any zone as a single



covid rules you could pick anywhere at anytime for a single.

pre-covid, 1st single into a party block locked it out to the rest of the singles. (except for designated single zones fields).


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## Sampsons_owner (Dec 30, 2005)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> covid rules you could pick anywhere at anytime for a single.
> 
> pre-covid, 1st single into a party block locked it out to the rest of the singles. (except for designated single zones fields).


Is this for all managed areas or just Shiawassee? Steve


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