# New QDM related web site



## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

Just had this information forwarded to me from Matt Tarr who is the new President of the first QDMA branch in NH. Lots of great information.
Looks like this fly-by-night idea of Quality Deer Management isn't going away. 
www.whitetailstewards.com

Big T


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## Bob S (Mar 8, 2000)

Looks like a lot of information over there Big T. 

*Looks like this fly-by-night idea of Quality Deer Management isn't going away.*

You`ve got that right. QDM and the QDMA are here to stay. We continue to grow.

You only have to read these message boards to find that the QDM hunters are seeing and shooting more deer than hunters practicing traditional deer management.


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## Swamper (Apr 12, 2004)

"You only have to read these message boards to find that the QDM hunters are seeing and shooting more deer than hunters practicing traditional deer management."

I am no polling or sampling guru, but somehow I don't think this forum represents a cross section of the state's hunters. Suggest you expand your horizons a bit broader to get a better feel for the winds of hunter opinion. Most of the traditionalists don't find the chatter to becoming.

For my tribe, we consider this website to be a blessing, as it has helped to get us off our duffs to protect the sport of hunting and gun ownership, and we are spreading the word.

Swamper


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

Bob S.,

Kip Adams has articles archived on this site also. I believe I read some of them in QUALITY WHITETAIL.

P.S. with the harvest of the Malcuit Buck our co-op is getting alot of very possitive press. Even a couple of "not so pro qdm" neighbors are making inquires! 

Keep your chain sharp!

Big T


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## Swamp Ghost (Feb 5, 2003)

Swamper,

I do know one thing, not one of my friends or aquaintances that practice QDM have complained of "the worst deer season ever" or "all the deer are gone", the same cannot be said for friends and aquaintances that hunt in the same areas that don't.


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## Swamper (Apr 12, 2004)

I won't relate tales of who saw what or saw not. We can just flip through the forum and hear the tales from both QDMers and non QDMers of "best season ever to worst season ever". When QDMers are talking about using bait and feeders to "hold them" in the area while non QDMers are talking about too many deer in other areas, then we know the full spectrum is being voiced.

Happy New Year to all.

Swamper


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## Bob S (Mar 8, 2000)

Big T, I see a lot of the articles were written by Kip. It looks like many of the articles are directly from the QDMA also.

Sound scientific management of the white-tailed deer continues to grow. While the nay sayers continue to live in denial.


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

Bob S said:


> Big T, I see a lot of the articles were written by Kip. It looks like many of the articles are directly from the QDMA also.
> 
> Sound scientific management of the white-tailed deer continues to grow. While the nay sayers continue to live in denial.


Ok! Straighten me out here. Who are the naysayers? What is the denial? Where does the naysayer denials come from, the principles of QDM, or how to obtain the desired results. The standard basic principle of QDM is pretty straight forward, so I don't see where someone would be in denial of it. You dont want 80 deer per square mile if the habitat can only sustain 30. If you let younger deer go you will eventually work into a proportionate age group. All of these things are pretty much common sense. I see difference in opinions of whether deer numbers are up and down and the reasons why some think the others opinion is not based on anything concrete, I see difference in opinions as to what the ratio should be between bucks and does, but I dont see anyone saying QDM does not work.


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## Bob S (Mar 8, 2000)

Ray, you missed the point of my thread. The nay sayers are those who oppose QDM, but have no science behind their arguments. Their only argument is that QDM doesn`t work because they don`t want it to work.


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## Swamper (Apr 12, 2004)

Bob S.,

I submit to you that ALL hunters are interested in a HEALTHY deer herd. Period. Full stop.

Where the masses start getting divided is how the future state looks beyond HEALTHY.... Fewer deer or more deer....Bigger bucks, only trophy bucks, or any legal bucks. Your version is defined I assume in the words below your signature, ie "sad state of affairs when average-sized, not-yet-fully mature bucks are so rare they are deemed trophies".

Over the past 8 months, QDM has been defined on this site in many differing ways:

"bigger doe harvests, selected doe harvests, smaller doe harvests
Harvest of adult does, harvest of fawn does
Habitat improvement, food plots, baiting
No baiting..baiting as today...defensive baiting
Antler restrictions, 3 points to one side, 4 points on one side, only 3.5 year bucks
QDM is and only is:
1. Adequate buck age structure
2. Populations maintained at or below the carrying capacity of the land
3. Adequate sex ratios ====> all open to interpretation

trophy bucks, not about trophies

I am not writing this to criticize QDM, its supporters, or its goals. My point is this - QDM is not a single definition, but rather a basic philosophy open to the interpretation of many in terms of goals, practices, and methods. To those who say QDM is all of the above points, then it begins to sound like the Democratic party moving left to center to right of center, saying "we can be all things to all people".

To criticize those who stop at simply a "healthy deer herd" as a #1 goal because they don't have scientific facts is wrong. In the world of internet research and "experts" everywhere, "science and facts" can be found most anywhere, some of it legitimate and some not. Many persons choose not to cite research, but rather rely on gut feel, history, family tradition, personal observation, and intuition. To some of them, deer hunting is more an art than science. 

We have much to be thankful for about hunting in MI - particularly when at a minimum, my guess is that we are supportive of a HEALTHY deer herd.

Happy new year.

Swamper


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## walleye magnet (Mar 4, 2001)

Bob S,
What is QDMA?
I know QDM is Quality Deer Management.
Thanks
Walleye Magnet


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Swamper said:


> I am not writing this to criticize QDM, its supporters, or its goals. My point is this - QDM is not a single definition, but rather a basic philosophy open to the interpretation of many in terms of goals, practices, and methods. To those who say QDM is all of the above points, then it begins to sound like the Democratic party moving left to center to right of center, saying "we can be all things to all people".
> 
> .........We have much to be thankful for about hunting in MI - particularly when at a minimum, my guess is that we are supportive of a HEALTHY deer herd.
> Swamper


My thoughts exactly. I've been vocal in the past in saying that there seems to be many differing definitions of what "QDM" is. I've learned from many of you over the last couple years that QDM is a lot of things, but the bottom line goal is a healthy herd. When the name of this page was changed to "Whitetail deer management", I applauded loudly, because that more appropriately described what I was hearing from most of you. The QDM meetings I attended a few years ago prior to the vote in my hunting area was simply a vocal minority who want big bucks.....pure and simple. They made no bones about it. That vote was defeated soundly, and probably always will be until some purported supporters change their vocal stance. Many like me are not opposed to what this forum represents....overall deer management for the health of the herd. I think all hunters have that same concern. But many like me *are* opposed to the one-sided "big buck" point of view that many continue to support.

Like Swampers analogy of the Democratic Party, not one recipe fits all conditions. The QDM community must recognize that some areas of the state, like where I hunt, have great numbers of deer, and a good B/D ratio already. I acknowledge though that many areas, especially in zones 1 & 2, are not as fortunate. So I'm all for a change in regulations.....just not blanket, statewide regs.


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## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

walleye magnet said:


> Bob S,
> What is QDMA?
> I know QDM is Quality Deer Management.
> Thanks
> Walleye Magnet


www.qdma.org


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## walleye magnet (Mar 4, 2001)

Thanks Neal.


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## Swamp Ghost (Feb 5, 2003)

Quality deer management (QDM) is a management philosophy/practice that unites landowners, hunters, and resource managers in a common goal of producing healthy deer herds with balanced adult sex ratios and age structures. This approach typically involves *protecting young bucks* while harvesting an *appropriate number of female deer* to maintain herds within existing environmental and social constraints.


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## Bob S (Mar 8, 2000)

Swamper said:


> Bob S.,
> 
> Your version is defined I assume in the words below your signature, ie "sad state of affairs when average-sized, not-yet-fully mature bucks are so rare they are deemed trophies".


You assume wrong. The quote in my signature refers to traditional management not Quality Deer Management.

What is Quality Deer Management?

Quality Deer Management (QDM) is a management philosophy/practice that unites landowners, hunters, and managers in a common goal of producing biologically and socially balanced deer herds within existing environmental, social, and legal constraints. This approach typically involves the protection of young bucks (yearlings and some 2.5 year-olds) combined with an adequate harvest of female deer to maintain a healthy population in balance with existing habitat conditions and landowner desires. This level of deer management involves the production of quality deer (bucks, does, and fawns), quality habitat, quality hunting experiences, and, most importantly, quality hunters.

A successful QDM program requires an increased knowledge of deer biology and active participation in management. This level of involvement extends the role of the hunter from mere consumer to manager. The progression from education to understanding, and finally, to respect; bestows an ethical obligation upon the hunter to practice sound deer management. Consequently, to an increasing number of landowners and hunters, QDM is a desirable alternative to traditional management, which allows the harvest of any legal buck and few, if any, does.

QDM guidelines are formulated according to property-specific objectives, goals, and limitations. Participating hunters enjoy both the tangible and intangible benefits of this approach. Pleasure can be derived from each hunting experience, regardless if a shot is fired. What is important is the chance to harvest a quality buck - an opportunity lacking in many areas under traditional management. When a quality buck is taken on a QDM area, the pride can be shared by all property hunters because it was they who produced it by allowing it to reach the older age classes which are necessary for large bodies and antlers.


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

Bob S said:


> Ray, you missed the point of my thread. The nay sayers are those who oppose QDM, but have no science behind their arguments. Their only argument is that QDM doesn`t work because they don`t want it to work.


Thanks for that clarification Bob S.

Nice link QDMAMAN. Thanks


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

Another one on the way.


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## Swamper (Apr 12, 2004)

"...Pleasure can be derived from each hunting experience, regardless if a shot is fired. What is important is the chance to harvest a quality buck - an opportunity lacking in many areas under traditional management. When a quality buck is taken on a QDM area, the pride can be shared by all property hunters because it was they who produced it by allowing it to reach the older age classes which are necessary for large bodies and antlers." - Bob S.

A classic example of why QDM is opposed by so many...the above first describes how hunting pleasure can be derived without firing a single shot (I agree wholeheartedly), but then it even defines "quality bucks" for hunters. We have a wallful of racks hanging on the wall, probably more than 1/3 are spikes and forks, and even several buttons for the first time successes. I will tell you very clearly that from the vantage point of the hunters in our camp who took those - each and every one was and will always be a QUALITY buck, with QUALITY memories to stay with us forever. 

It hearkens the comparison of some politicians who feel government can best spend and manage our money, best tell us what is pleasure and eveil, best manage our safety and well being...as we are all so mindless creatures without government. 

I still assume ALL hunters want a healthy deer herd. From there, the roads split up into many different interests. That is why the concept of free enterprise and private land ownership is wonderful, as we can then choose our own goals for our own property.

Swamper


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2004)

Kip Adams, Regional Northeast Branch Director of the QDMA was the State Deer Manager of NH prior to coming on board with the National QDMA. I have worked with Kip on several occasions and a true professioal is Kip. I have not worked with BSK but have a positive feeling about that man from Tennesee (he should change his name to Sam Mc'kee). These well trained professionals including the founders of that new web page from NH cannot be thanked enough for their contribution to our knowledge of the whitetails and their ways.


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