# Masuer 8mm question



## ramitupurs84 (Nov 9, 2008)

A guy at work wants to get rid of a Turkish Mauser in 8mm. It comes with a bayonet and numerous rounds. He's shot it a lot he said. He also said the ammo down right sucks for it. Doesn't always fire, inaccurate loads-surplus that came with the gun. Just one of those things were he doesn't want it anymore. He wants a $100 for it. I think it's a deal regardless. However I was wondering if I could shoot box ammo out of this gun. I know my Garand I own, it isn't suggested unless you has a Schuster gas plug to deal with the hotter loads from today's powders. If nothing else I figure I could dump some money into it and make it a hunting rifle. 

He is taking pics of it tonight and writing down serial numbers/markings/model numbers.


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## CMR (Jul 25, 2003)

Depending on what condition its in, I'd buy it. 
Worst case is you get a project gun. Lots of Turkish mausers have been made into some real nice custom guns.


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## Rustyaxecamp (Mar 1, 2005)

The brrl might be shot anyways, if he has shot any real amount of surplus through it, I'm sure some has been the corrosive stuff.

There is real decent factory stuff availible, it just costs more than the junk stuff.

Like CMR said, might be worth it as a project gun (basically just keeping the action), if that is your thing (I have 2 finished Mauser customs and 2 in the works). If you are looking for a knockaround shooter, maybe still. If you want a plinker to take out as is and shoot bugholes at 100 yards, more than likely, find another gun.

Worth taking a look at anyways. Some of the Mausers out there now are the real nice shape ones that never saw real abuse.


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

Personally, I'd get it just for the action. It'd be a great one for a project or simply put a new barrel and/or stock on.


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

I'd pass on it. Put the $100 towards a M96 in 6.5 Swede if you want a Mauser project gun. The end result is likely to be a much better, nicer rifle that would be perfect for Michigan Whitetail.


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## ramitupurs84 (Nov 9, 2008)

It says 1941 on it


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## 8nchuck (Apr 20, 2006)

It all depends on what the action looks like. 100.00 might be high. The actions/rifles I see now a days are the ones they FORGOT ABOUT and found in the basement of a building in Europe. VERY RUSTED. Not worth 100.00 IMO.

I have built 6 - 98 mausers custom's and I love doing it. It would have to be a real nice action for me to take for 100.00. 

Does the bolt SN match? 

Look down the barrel and see how bad it is.


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## UkiahDog (May 12, 2008)

I agree on the action and barrel. If it's in good shape then why not? 

I don't know if I'd want to count on finding 6.5 swede ammo anywhere... 8mm Mauser is very common, and well known.

I always thought the issue was not the hotter powders of new loads, but the corrosive powder and primer of older loads and then not cleaning it whenever you use it. New pwoders and primers burn more cleanly, without corrosive chemicals. The Mauser action is one of the strongest out there. If it's clean and the barrel is nice, I would shoot it without worry. 

After shooting you may decide to have the barrel or bolt redone. You should be able to find a nice stock.. Take a look at this one, I almost bought it: http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=52006. It's 7mm, but it give you an idea of what can be done! Heck, I may still buy it if it's not gone soon....


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## 6thMichCav (Nov 8, 2007)

First, to answer your question, as long as the action is sound, YES, you can shoot normal, modern factory ammunition in it. In fact, the Remington, Winchester, PMC and other "shelf" ammo is probably milder than the surplus rounds your friend has with the gun (both recoil and pressure-wise).

Second, most factory 8x57 ammo sucks (this excludes the European loadings like Norma and S & B, which can be pretty good). I apologize if I offend anyone, but I've tried all the domestic brands in five different military mausers, and none of them met my standards of accuracy. When handloaded with the Hornady 150 spire-point at 2500 fps, all of that changes.

Third, unfortunately, the Turkish mausers have the worst reputation for condition and resale value around. It's not that some of the guns weren't perfectly fine, but Turkey took oodles of different models and reconfigured them. You never know if you're going to get a pristine Loewe action or a beat-up, soft-receiver, set-back 1893 (originally 7x57) rebored for 8x57, or any one of the dozens of models they captured or bought. Saying "Turkish mauser" is a little like "Olds Cutlass chop job"--you never really know what you're getting, originally.

As a backup gun, rain gun, or a gun for a visitor you don't like, sure, I would take a Turkish mauser, if you gave it to me for free. For $100 on a military action, I would be looking to put it toward a Swede, a VZ-24, or a 7x57.

I would not buy the gun to sharpen it up as a hunting gun. It will probably shoot high with most ammunition, and to correct it you have to add aftermarket sights. Unless you can do all the work yourself, it is more cost effective to put the money toward a production hunting rifle. Believe me, I have tried it. Once you have $350 into a military action, you think, "Darn, I could have had that like-new Remington 700, Ruger 77, Winchester 70, Savage 110, (place gun here) for $400...." Any of these guns in their most basic forms will have better looks, a better trigger, easy means to add a scope sight, and some decent resale value.

I'd like to finish by saying your friend's Turkish mauser may be the Cadillac of Turks--who knows? Throw the handload above in it, and it may shoot nice 2-inch groups at 100 yards. Most mausers with a good barrel will. If it doesn't, now you have a heavy military action that is hard to upgrade and hard to get your money back if you sell.

Either way, good luck on your decision.


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## Topshelf (May 24, 2005)

I would pick it up in a second for 100 bucks. Mine shoot real nice and are both WWII vintage.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

I dont have exp. with a turkish mauser. But I have a custom built .308 with a mauser 98 action that will drive tacks well beyond my capability. A buddy has a .223 bench gun built on a 98 action also that is incredible.


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## ramitupurs84 (Nov 9, 2008)

It has good wood, it seems like a tight gun except when the bolt is toward the end of the receiver. 

My receiver has 43641 stamped on it. The bolt has 9838 on it. The barrel says '1938 German 8mm' 'Cal Georgia VT'.
*Note the wet chair is me after I went swimming lol ok...
*
Pictures:


























































Well I took it into the gun store. The thought the rifling looked good but it needed a good good good cleaning. But that was after they cleaned it a little for me there. I couldn't really see the rifling till they cleaned it. I took it home and cleaned it really good. I can see the rifling, however I can still some crude in it. It looks way better then when I saw it with the bore light at the shop. Any ways to get that stuff out or just shoot it. The guy fired it at the shop...so..


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## 6thMichCav (Nov 8, 2007)

Well, it sounds like you own it now? May as well shoot it.

Believe me, a good military 8mm barrel will shoot even when dirty, pitted, and in condition that many other rifles would consider "condemned." I've had three in the "dark, pitted bore" condition, and they would all shoot relatively accurately when I did my part. Usually, the two-stage trigger was the bigger culprit than the bore, since it didn't always let off cleanly or lightly. One of my VZ-24's had a trigger that I could just squeeze enough to feel the last tiny stage, and it would shoot lights out.

My first advice is to leave it in the military stock and barrel bands. They and the stepped barrel were designed (among other things) to control barrel vibration, and they usually do a pretty good job. Take the rifle out of the stock, and sometimes strange things can happen to your accuracy.

It appears you have a Turkish manufactured 98 action, unless there is something different on the left side of the receiver than your other pictures. From a collector's standpoint, it is purely a shooter. I still recommend that you look into handloads if you really want to enjoy shooting the gun. If you don't handload, look for the Sellier & Belloit (Czech) ammo in the green/gray box if you can find it. It should be modestly priced and fairly accurate. The military rounds will sometimes be accurate, but some will be inconsistent, inaccurate, and dirty (read, "corrosively primed").

My favorite loading (disclaimer: I don't control your reloading, so I take no responsibility if you load it wrong and hurt yourself) is 44.5 grains of IMR 4064 or VarGet, a Hornady 150 grain spire-point, a CCI LR primer (not magnum), and standard factory Remington brass. Seat the bullet to C.O.L 2.9650" and don't crimp it. If your 8mm won't shoot this into 3 inches at 100 yards with a steady rest and young eyes, then the barrel is probably toast. Most 8mm's will do better. Adding a Timney trigger and a B-square scope mount may shrink your groups down to as far as 1-1.5 inches. 

However, you see where this starts to go...a Timney = $50-$90; a B-square mount is $40-$60; even a "cheap" pistol scope is $50-$100. Soon you have $240 to $350 into an old military mauser, and you're back to, "I could have had a Ruger."

Or, you can just take it out and shoot plates and paper targets at 50 yards and have fun, and tell the nay-sayers where to put it! :lol:


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## mkarpov (Jan 12, 2009)

6thMichCav said:


> Well, it sounds like you own it now? May as well shoot it.
> 
> Believe me, *a good military 8mm barrel will shoot even when dirty, pitted, and in condition that many other rifles would consider "condemned.*" I've had three in the "dark, pitted bore" condition, and they would all shoot relatively accurately when I did my part. Usually, the two-stage trigger was the bigger culprit than the bore, since it didn't always let off cleanly or lightly. One of my VZ-24's had a trigger that I could just squeeze enough to feel the last tiny stage, and it would shoot lights out.
> 
> ...


+1 To all of that!
My Turk is probably the most accurate gun I own. And most 8mm is good, there are a few surplus years that are commonly bad.
This gun will be a plate MURDERED at 50yrds.


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## ramitupurs84 (Nov 9, 2008)

Well I bought a bore light, the rifling looks really good. I gave it a good cleaning with some 'Break Free CLP'. That seemed to make it loosen up. More less let it soak then brush it it out.I saw some crude in it, it looked like it would come out when I shot it. Well I took it to the range on Saturday. I picked up some 8MM Mauser Winchester Super X 170gr. Power points. 

There was a older gentleman shooting his 1903 Springfield (He let me shoot it 5 times-insisted I do a good group lol). I initially shot at 50 yards, sitting down with a wooden rest. I shot my first six rounds this way. The older gentleman lent me his butt rest and this shooting pod. I shot two rounds like that, high. He thought the bullet was still rising at 50 yards. He also thought that it was such a long rifle that putting it out at 100 yards might not help my cause either. Here is the the first 8 shots:











Well at a 100 yards it looked like it was still rising. My shots were not even on paper, but rising. I took 6 shots. My sight picture was keeping the rear "V" and the front "I" level under the black at a 6 o'clock position. The rear sight was pulled as far back towards the rifle butt's direction as I could go. I even tried to bury the front "I" into the bottom of "V" of the rear (not level). I did that once. I brought the target back into 50 yards. Not before taking the older gentleman's suggestion of putting a black blot of market on the bottom of the target at 6 o'clock. I aimed for the blot and fired two shots. One in the black on the 9 ring and one in the 8 ring. See below:










Now the older gentleman suggested coming back out and shaving the front sight. He said the rifle and the groupings suggest good rifling in the barrel. I am no marksmen by any means, I shoot from time to time. Logically, I agree with shaving the front sight. I just wasn't sure how much I should do. However, I found it to be the opposite on other sites. I have to get a taller front sight as seen below from Brownell's:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=341/Product/MAUSER_FRONT_SIGHT_BLANK

The sight on it now is like stamped on both the part that would be replaced and the base. It looks like a type of "scoring". Like someone took a chisel and mallet to it. What is the difficulty of something like this to do on your own?

Any comments?


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## 8nchuck (Apr 20, 2006)

ramitupurs84 said:


> It has good wood, it seems like a tight gun except when the bolt is toward the end of the receiver.
> 
> My receiver has 43641 stamped on it. The bolt has 9838 on it. The barrel says '1938 German 8mm' 'Cal Georgia VT'.


OK right off the bat. your bolt does not match! I would say *don't shoot* it until you have the head space checked but I see that you have shot it already.

Not smart in my book. 

You took it to a "gun store"? Gun Shop? And they did not check the head space for you? 

Again NOT SMART, and not very professional on their part!

Listen to me.... HAVE THE HEAD SPACE CHECKED, PLEASE!!

THE FACTORY LOADS ARE WIMPY 35,000 LBS PER SQUARE INCH. YOU RELOAD TO THE GERMAN SPECS 55,000 LBS/SQ-INCH AND THE GUN HAS EXCESSIVE HEAD SPACE...... THINGS GOING GET INTERESTING.

Have the barrel clean with a electrical set up. 

oh and have the head space checked.

LOOK AT THE SPENT CASES FOR EXCESSIVE HEADSPACE.

Primer pushed out?
Case stretched at the extractor ring groove? 
Light colored ring around cases at the rear?


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## 6thMichCav (Nov 8, 2007)

Ram,

It sounds like you have already started to have fun with your turk. Good for you.

I agree that it is a good idea to have your rifle checked for headspace. A weak cartridge could blow if the rifle is too far out of spec. This is more of a problem with repeated loadings of reloaded brass, but it's not impossible with factory ammo. An extended primer could also be a sign of low pressure ammo, but it also means the primer had space to travel...or a headspace problem.

Shaving the front sight will make your rounds land even higher. What you want is what you found at Brownells--a taller front sight. This is the cheapest way to try to get your rounds into a 100 yard bull. I've also seen guys build up the front sight with a dot of JB Weld epoxy, then file it down until their POI was perfect. Not sure how durable that idea is, though. Obviously a choice for a shooter Mauser than a new rifle!:lol:

I would suggest you call the folks at Brownells and ask them which sight to buy based on groups being about a foot over your point of aim. There is a simple formula you can use to determine this depending on your sight radius, assuming you use similar ammo. For example, if you are shooting 12 inches high, and the distance between your front sight and your rear sight notch is 20 inches, you would want a front sight that is .06 inches taller than your current sight to lower your POI 12 inches at 100 yards. If you change ammo around, your point of impact can change, too.

The chisel marks you found on the front sight is from a procedure called "staking." Once the shooter found a point where shots landed in the center of the group, they take a punch (and often it may look like a chisel or screwdriver--could have been!) and drive a little metal into the sight and base to keep the sight from traveling. From the looks of your groups, whoever staked your gun put it in a good spot for your POI.

Good luck with the Turk, and glad you had some fun today.


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## Hoppe's no.10 (Sep 16, 2007)

ramitupurs84 said:


> I brought the target back into 50 yards. Not before taking the older gentleman's suggestion of putting a black blot of market on the bottom of the target at 6 o'clock. I aimed for the blot and fired two shots. One in the black on the 9 ring and one in the 8 ring. See below:
> 
> 
> Now the older gentleman suggested coming back out and shaving the front sight. He said the rifle and the groupings suggest good rifling in the barrel. I am no marksmen by any means, I shoot from time to time. Logically, I agree with shaving the front sight. I just wasn't sure how much I should do. However, I found it to be the opposite on other sites. I have to get a taller front sight as seen below from Brownell's:
> ...


Kind of confused about the "older gentleman's" suggesting you should "shave" the front sight. By "shave" I assume he meant filing it down. If a rifle is shooting high - as your's seems to be - then making the front sight lower by shaving it will make the rifle shoot even higher. On rifles and handguns the front sight works opposite the rear sight. Raising a rear sight will make the gun shoot higher while raising the front sight will make it shoot lower. The converse is also true - lowering a rear sight will make a gun shoot lower while lowering a front sight will make it shoot higher. This opposition is also true for windage. Moving the rear sight to the right will make the gun shoot more to the right. Moving a front sight to the right will make the gun shoot more to the left and vice-versa. Front sights, generally speaking, do not have up/down adjustment capabilities unlike the rear sight on your Mauser. Generally if you need a taller front sight to make your gun shoot lower the sight has to be replaced. If you need a lower front sight to make the gun shoot higher the existing sight can be filed down in incremental steps to the needed height. However if it's filed to low it may not be visible in the rear sight. The Brownell's replacement Mauser sight in the link is purposefully made tall - so that purchasers can file it down to the needed height - "...plenty of extra material so you can file and shape....."

Hope this makes sense.

Hoppe's no.10


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## ramitupurs84 (Nov 9, 2008)

I took it into Dick Williams in Bridgeport. I took it in to see if I could fire it safely with commerical ammo. They checked the headspace, rifling and gave it a good cleaning. They actually fired it there to make sure it was safe. The thing with Turkish Mauser was they weren't exactly all the same parts-numbers matching. I am on a Mauser forum and they stated that it is extremely rare. 

Here is the thread I started over there about it:
http://mausercentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28822


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## 8nchuck (Apr 20, 2006)

Good to hear Dick checked it out. I have had him work on some of mine.

Yes mis-matched bolts are no problem as long as the headspace is good.

Have fun with it.


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## ramitupurs84 (Nov 9, 2008)

Yeah I definately have to raise the sight. It seems logical now, to raise instead of lowering it by filing it. I am going to shoot Brownell's a email since I will be pretty busy this week. Hopefully, their customer service will help me out.

I love Dick Williams, one of the younger guys took care of it. He seemed like when he had questions the other guys would chime in and help him. 

I think the groups are pretty good. Not as good as my Garand, but good enough I feel comfortable taking it hunting.

Now will it be hard on my own to break the staking or is this one of those "take it in" and have it done?


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## ramitupurs84 (Nov 9, 2008)

Also, if I need a new rear sight what are my options for a rear sight?


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## ramitupurs84 (Nov 9, 2008)

Well I ordered it from Brownells. Dick Williams said they would put it in on for me.


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## unclecbass (Sep 29, 2005)

I have one of those rifles, Mine is surprisingly accurate but it is a pain in the butt to see the sights in low light conditions. If its light out then the gun is a great shooter, dusk or dawn and I cant use it, which is obviously a problem for deer hunting. Make sure you try the rifle in low lignt conditions before you settle on it as your deer rifle. Or add new sights or scope.


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