# Scent Control Paradigms



## standsetter (Dec 2, 2007)

bucksnbows said:


> If a deer could talk they could sniff a bowl of chili and tell you every ingredient used. Think about that while trying to smell like a pine tree.


Deer don't even know what chili is let alone the ingredients. :evil:



bucksnbows said:


> The goal is to reduce scent.....you can't eliminate it. *Its not the deer you see that you need to worry about......its the ones you don't see*.


The problem with this thought is that people can and do get so caught up with deer that can't be seen, can't be shot and may not even exist. They lose sight of what is most important, the deer that can and will be shot, if you have done your homework in identifying your targeted deer or behavior pattern. Sometimes I think that maybe this thinking is more common among those who hunt small private parcels with limited options. Assuming it is I always wonder why the best time and place isn't determined long before and hunted accordingly? Don't know, but long story short, I start with the end in mind. I apply the vast majority of my focus on getting close to the deer I expect to shoot, where I expect to shoot them. I can't control every thing everywhere so I prioritize.



bucksnbows said:


> You don't need to do anything beyond watching the wind, pay attention to your access and exits from stands and don't over hunt your stands. ....do that and you can do Very well. Imo though you better have a lot of locations to choose from. Every trip to the stand, you leave behind days worth of information for the deer.



All true but...I doubt you have a single stand set up that multiple hunts are anticipated in order to be successful, I know I don't. I expect every sit at every stand to deliver what I'm expecting to happen. Of course it doesn't but if the expectation doesn't exist why would you sit even once? 

Scent reduction will help anyone in any situation but in my mind it's a trade off. Cost in both time and money are important considerations, for me at least. I imagine I'm no different than others in having as much confidence in my actions as I can back with results.




bucksnbows said:


> Deer will pattern you much faster than you will pattern them.
> If you are hunting bucks 3.5 and older in high pressured areas you have to try and improve your odds. They will not tolerate intrusion or over look the scent of danger when it is where it is not supposed to be.
> If you just happy hunting deer and general and rely on luck more so than skill.



I'm thinking it's the buck that is playing catch up to me. I'm at least one or more days ahead of him. 

What bucks will or won't tolerate is another of those depends or what if's in my opinion. Bucks, especially older ones have already identified where conditions exist that they consider favorable, or presumably they wouldn't be there in the first place. The deer that pick up and leave a good place for a bad place generally die when they get there. Older deer avoid pressure they don't run from it.




bucksnbows said:


> Well then there is no need to get crazy with scent control.....but it can't hurt.


A true statement. And a disclaimer to finish my thoughts on your post. Nothing I said is intended to imply you are wrong, it's only my interpretation of things I have experienced, do or think.

Best thread in like Forever.


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

With poor scent control I might get one good day. Probably the evening would have been much poorer


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

farmlegend said:


> Trout King said:
> 
> 
> > You hear this "often"? The *only* place I ever see individuals proclaim that "they have scentlock or this and that so they do not worry about wind"(your words) is from scent control detractors. I have not once heard a scent control advocate say that.
> ...


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

Trophy Specialist said:


> John Eberhart has proclaimed that before.:lol:


He could well have. If he did, his is a distinct minority opinion. 

And I will take him at his word that his view is not colored by any business relationship he has with Scentlok.


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## Jet08 (Aug 21, 2007)

Jager Pro said:


> I did three sits on the ground this year, two of the days I didn't use my scent killer and I had deer at 10 yards and 5 yards the first day and one at 15 yards the second day the third sit I did use my scent killer and saw nothing.


What the OP is discussing, and a person taking a couple squirts of scent killer are not at all comparable.


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## Muskegonbow (Dec 31, 2006)

farmlegend said:


> I could probably post a decent-sized essay on this topic. Suffice it to say I believe that a sound scent control regimen will improve your hunting, no matter who you are. I too have seen evidence of deer scentbusting hunters at distances of 250+ yards, and that tells me that hunters are often unaware of how often they get winded.
> 
> Unless you're hunting from a stand hung from a tree on the shore of a large lake with a stiff breeze blowing from you onto the water, playing the wind can be a dicey strategy. Scent control is just a prudent strategy.
> 1. The deer don't always show up where you expect them to.
> ...


But your guests shoot all the big bucks. Lol. Just kidding.


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

Muskegonbow said:


> But your guests shoot all the big bucks. Lol. Just kidding.


They do, but they cheat by using guns. The one buck taken from my farm this year was sniped while waltzing out in the open during broad daylight in December from the zone where only I had access.


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

standsetter said:


> Deer don't even know what chili is let alone the ingredients. :evil:
> I'm sure you get my point on that
> 
> 
> ...



Yep scent control is not needed, but it sure helps.

I will give some examples later on how I have seen things change.....gotta go right now.


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## bowman68 (Feb 11, 2007)

bucksnbows said:


> Nope you don't know why.
> All that stuff I mentioned if done properly only increase your odds.
> Do you need all of it......no, but it can help.
> Don't believe me ......bow hunt in your street clothes from the ground.....that should be enough to see a difference.


U might need that crap but I don't. I do just fine hunting thanks..


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

Trout King said:


> they do not worry about wind,


As farmlegend said, this is a straw man.

I recently told the story of my hunt for my main target buck of the year in (in my trespassing thread).

I knew where he was bedding, and how he was getting to a particular food plot on a regular basis, but I did not hunt the last several days of the season because I did not have the right wind. In fact, I ended the season not trying because I was not willing to take the risk of using the wrong wind. There is always next year.

Wind is my main consideration on every single hunt. However, the wind is a fickle thing, and I have times when deer are all around me in every direction (like the video), so I use extreme scent control to make sure I will not diminish activity over the season. 

Make up a different straw man. That one is old and tired and only applies to some companies and individuals who are busy overhyping products.


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

How did deer ever get killed before scentlock? Bio your last response is exactly how I hunt, play the wind and only hunt a stand with certain winds. It has worked for me for 15 years without scentlock etc. 
Sorry, that I brought personal conversations with other hunters to this conversation since they are not valid, lol.


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

Trout King said:


> How did deer ever get killed before scentlock?


Native Americans practiced quite a bit of scent control. Check out the hunt prep of Ishi.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

Muskegonbow said:


> One thing I have learned since owning land and will improve on next year is keeping your access lanes mowed. I found out by watching deer walking on my trails is that sections mowed well and sprayed with roundup, the deer never spooked at all walking where I just walked. Its the stray pieces of long grass that brushed up against my legs that caught there attention. Play the wind, keep your boots clean, wash your cloths, and keep your trails maintained.


 Surely you jest! And I did not say Shirley


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## Muskegonbow (Dec 31, 2006)

I'm not jesting. Here's one example of an access lane that needs to be wider. The better mowed areas I would have deer feeding on clover that came up an hour or two after I walked through almost every sit. But areas like this were the grass brushed my leg would set them on alert.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

Thanks for the reply. I'm used to hunting Up North. In the woods. Did not know what you meant by mowing. I could not imagine mowing lanes in the forest. No harm meant!lol


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## Muskegonbow (Dec 31, 2006)

No problem. When I mean mow I use this walk behind string trimmer. Yeah not as practical in the big woods.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

You guys definitely have the bigger deer down there. Up here any deer is a trophy. But they all eat good!lol That deer in your picture is once in a lifetime up here.


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## brokenarrow (Oct 6, 2003)

One of the scent lessons I learned (but, some how knew already) was taught to me by 1 of my 2 labs. I work with them to track deer blood. Someday I hope to recover a lost buck with my dogs help. A while back I would leave the house, take a different route setting out a trail of blood. I'd try not to touch or spread much of my scent. The first day both dogs are on the blood scent, the younger takes off after half way to the end point (lunch) on a run. She finds the end game before the older one is done scenting and licking the blood splatters half way. (The older Lab would rather investigate every little smell in each drop of blood before moving on) On the second day, we leave the cabin, the younger dog takes off on a run, finds my spot 75yrds away in less than 45 seconds. Third day it's even worse. The young lab has no patience, don't want to "work the blood trail" ) (its not sinking in yet to me what's happening, I just thought , "how the heck can she smell that food bowl through the woods that far away? The next day I have no intentions of playing the blood tracking for dinner game. I was out doing some scouting. I had my rubber boots and all my fairly scent free clothing on. I had just came back from a 3 hour walk so I am sure I was not smelling like a tree or a bush but my boots should! I open the door to let the girls go potty (before lunch) Holy crap! The young lab takes off on a run (thinking its game on) tears off in the total opposite direction that we usually go. Runs down the 2 track . (I am now running after her yelling to get back! She stopped at the woods edge long enough for me and the other dog to get teased to think she was waiting for us by my commands! Long story shorter, She ran into the woods down the trail following my path I just came in on. Hailey ran 100 yards down a trail through the woods. She ran past where I cut off the trail and went through the woods so she turned and came back the ten yards past that point that she over shot it. I was worried she was not going to stop so I finally gave up trying to be semi quite and started to call her off. She eventually stopped and waited for me. That's when it hit me hard!!!!!! (I always knew dogs could follow a human track, dah!) but this helped me put 2 and 2 together.
I thought to myself. If a dog can do this with my tracks/scent on a dead run, in a area that she does not live in 24/7. If a dog can do this for just a game to get to her lunch faster than her sister. If a dog does not need to do this to survive another day, than what can a mature buck so with his nose? Wow, the smell we leave in the woods must be amazing. It was at this point that I confirmed my feeling that scent control is job number one (for me) right before hunting. It also makes me rethink about the routes I take to get to my stand (I never want a buck to "cut" my track if at all possible) 
BTW, Years ago when I was young and I smoked, I used the wind theory all the time.  I could get young deer to almost always walk up to me and try and figure out what that stench was but never a 4 1/2 year old.


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## shoelessjoe (Dec 13, 2012)

Scent "control" is the correct term IMO, you can not eliminate it (beat an animals nose). The best scent control is "the wind" in your favor, that's it. I do believe you can knocked down ones scent to maybe change your scent trails "freshness" to the animals nose, but it will still be there, just not as strong as if its 3 minutes old. Just my opinion. You can also condition deer to your scent to where they don't find you as a threat.


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## Jager Pro (Nov 8, 2013)

shoelessjoe said:


> Scent "control" is the correct term IMO, you can not eliminate it (beat an animals nose). The best scent control is "the wind" in your favor, that's it. I do believe you can knocked down ones scent to maybe change your scent trails "freshness" to the animals nose, but it will still be there, just not as strong as if its 3 minutes old. Just my opinion. You can also condition deer to your scent to where they don't find you as a threat.


I've heard of people leaving articles of clothing in their stand for a few days so that there deer get used to that individuals own scent. Not sure if it worked though.


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## oldrank (Dec 5, 2006)

brokenarrow said:


> One of the scent lessons I learned (but, some how knew already) was taught to me by 1 of my 2 labs. I work with them to track deer blood. Someday I hope to recover a lost buck with my dogs help. A while back I would leave the house, take a different route setting out a trail of blood. I'd try not to touch or spread much of my scent. The first day both dogs are on the blood scent, the younger takes off after half way to the end point (lunch) on a run. She finds the end game before the older one is done scenting and licking the blood splatters half way. (The older Lab would rather investigate every little smell in each drop of blood before moving on) On the second day, we leave the cabin, the younger dog takes off on a run, finds my spot 75yrds away in less than 45 seconds. Third day it's even worse. The young lab has no patience, don't want to "work the blood trail" ) (its not sinking in yet to me what's happening, I just thought , "how the heck can she smell that food bowl through the woods that far away? The next day I have no intentions of playing the blood tracking for dinner game. I was out doing some scouting. I had my rubber boots and all my fairly scent free clothing on. I had just came back from a 3 hour walk so I am sure I was not smelling like a tree or a bush but my boots should! I open the door to let the girls go potty (before lunch) Holy crap! The young lab takes off on a run (thinking its game on) tears off in the total opposite direction that we usually go. Runs down the 2 track . (I am now running after her yelling to get back! She stopped at the woods edge long enough for me and the other dog to get teased to think she was waiting for us by my commands! Long story shorter, She ran into the woods down the trail following my path I just came in on. Hailey ran 100 yards down a trail through the woods. She ran past where I cut off the trail and went through the woods so she turned and came back the ten yards past that point that she over shot it. I was worried she was not going to stop so I finally gave up trying to be semi quite and started to call her off. She eventually stopped and waited for me. That's when it hit me hard!!!!!! (I always knew dogs could follow a human track, dah!) but this helped me put 2 and 2 together.
> I thought to myself. If a dog can do this with my tracks/scent on a dead run, in a area that she does not live in 24/7. If a dog can do this for just a game to get to her lunch faster than her sister. If a dog does not need to do this to survive another day, than what can a mature buck so with his nose? Wow, the smell we leave in the woods must be amazing. It was at this point that I confirmed my feeling that scent control is job number one (for me) right before hunting. It also makes me rethink about the routes I take to get to my stand (I never want a buck to "cut" my track if at all possible)
> BTW, Years ago when I was young and I smoked, I used the wind theory all the time.  I could get young deer to almost always walk up to me and try and figure out what that stench was but never a 4 1/2 year old.



good post.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

Here's my take on the importance of extreme scent control: It is essential that you have at least one hunting buddy that practices extreme scent control. My wife often thinks that I am over the top with my hunting pursuits and starts getting agitated every once in a while about my hunting habits. For instance, she actually thought that me being away at hunting camp for just one month without coming home was somehow extreme. When she starts getting in a tiff, I plan a double date with my scent control freak buddy. I make sure he goes through his entire, super anal, pre-hunt scent ridding processes while feigning absolute shock about how some hunters are so over the top. My main focus is to make my hunting efforts seem below average in the eyes of my wife. It is usually a mutually beneficial strategy too where my buddy can also use some of my extreme hunting habits to soften up his wife too. After the dinner it is best to keep talking about how much of a hunting fanatic your buddy is and it also helps to have more stories of other fanatical hunters to tell her all the way home. After that, I'm ready to ramp things up a but for next season. :lol:


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## 7mmsendero (Dec 2, 2010)

I use to get pretty hung up on scent control with my clothes, but then I realized our breath is a much bigger deal. 

Finally I realized the real key was to play the wind, and do this by having multiple stands. I also place great emphasis on a careful entry. Scent free boots and pants matter in this regard.

Additionally, there is a lot to be said about the first day you hunt a stand, or giving key stands long breaks. I often save the best spots for an afternoon hunt when I know the rut is in full swing.


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## Sportsman1933 (Nov 26, 2007)

Trophy Specialist said:


> Here's my take on the importance of extreme scent control: It is essential that you have at least one hunting buddy that practices extreme scent control. My wife often thinks that I am over the top with my hunting pursuits and starts getting agitated every once in a while about my hunting habits. For instance, she actually thought that me being away at hunting camp for just one month without coming home was somehow extreme. When she starts getting in a tiff, I plan a double date with my scent control freak buddy. I make sure he goes through his entire, super anal, pre-hunt scent ridding processes while feigning absolute shock about how some hunters are so over the top. My main focus is to make my hunting efforts seem below average in the eyes of my wife. It is usually a mutually beneficial strategy too where my buddy can also use some of my extreme hunting habits to soften up his wife too. After the dinner it is best to keep talking about how much of a hunting fanatic your buddy is and it also helps to have more stories of other fanatical hunters to tell her all the way home. After that, I'm ready to ramp things up a but for next season. :lol:


HAHA, i can relate. I remember a conversation similar to that and then I said, "hey, you think I'm bad, LOOK AT THIS GUY!!" (Shows her a pic of Bio covered in carbon powder). So thanks Bio!


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## Jager Pro (Nov 8, 2013)

Trophy Specialist said:


> After that, I'm ready to ramp things up a but for next season.


Always use protection when ramping objects up a butt  :lol:


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

Jager Pro said:


> Always use protection when ramping objects up a butt  :lol:


Now that's an embarrassing typo. I'm now glad my wife got banned off this site a while back.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

November Sunrise said:


> Trusting in personal experience is what leads many hunters to do all sorts of illogical things. You see it all the time on this forum when people with expertise point out the deficiencies with certain muzzleloader bullets or broadheads. Inevitably then someone else with chime in with "Well, I've killed three deer with those bullets so I'm sticking with them." That's an example of a person who lacks the ability to see beyond their personal experience and to consider probability and data.
> 
> When it comes to scent control you've gotta sort through all the blather and egos that are voicing contradictory opinions, in many cases simply because their mode of operation on this forum is to be argumentative. The simple fact is that being attentive to scent control, including your body, clothing, and gear, will have a favorable impact on your success.


I started killing the kind of bucks I wanted to kill when I quit listening to me.


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## bowman68 (Feb 11, 2007)

7mmsendero said:


> I use to get pretty hung up on scent control with my clothes, but then I realized our breath is a much bigger deal.
> 
> Finally I realized the real key was to play the wind, and do this by having multiple stands. I also place great emphasis on a careful entry. Scent free boots and pants matter in this regard.
> 
> Additionally, there is a lot to be said about the first day you hunt a stand, or giving key stands long breaks. I often save the best spots for an afternoon hunt when I know the rut is in full swing.


That is how I go about my scent control now that u mention it. I hunt only public ground so I use a climber. I hardly hunt the same tree twice. I will be in same area but never same tree. I like to keep them guessing. I do wear rubber boots 90% of the time and keep them clean as possible. And I do smoke while hunting and I put my buts in a pill bottle. The best scent control on the market is the wind. If you learn to use it in the right way. And my most important way of using the wind is I try to think like a deer and how they use the wind, if they think I'm there how are they gonna come through to wind me. This has been real productive tactic on highly pressured state land.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

bioactive said:


> I recently told the story of my hunt for my main target buck of the year ... *There is always next year*.
> 
> .


Well....maybe.


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

bowman68 said:


> That is how I go about my scent control now that u mention it. I hunt only public ground so I use a climber. I hardly hunt the same tree twice. I will be in same area but never same tree. I like to keep them guessing. I do wear rubber boots 90% of the time and keep them clean as possible. And I do smoke while hunting and I put my buts in a pill bottle. The best scent control on the market is the wind. If you learn to use it in the right way. And my most important way of using the wind is I try to think like a deer and how they use the wind, if they think I'm there how are they gonna come through to wind me. This has been real productive tactic on highly pressured state land.


Just some food for thought......

A lot of times older bucks will circle their bedding area and wind it before entering. An average distance of 75 to 100 yards away at that. 
I have never noticed does or young bucks do this.

Another thing I have learned is don't focus on what wind is good for you but think about that buck and what wind is good for him.


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

farmlegend said:


> Native Americans practiced quite a bit of scent control. Check out the hunt prep of Ishi.


Yes, Saxton Pope wrote about Ishi and his strict scent control regimen LINK.



> Excerpt from Chapter 3 of "Hunting with the Bow and Arrow" by Saxton Pope, 1923: Having decided these and other questions, he prepared for the hunt. He would eat no fish the day before the hunt, and smoke no tobacco, for these odors are detected a great way off. He rose early, bathed in the creek, rubbed himself with the aromatic leaves of yerba buena, washed out his mouth, drank water, but ate no food. Dressed in a loin cloth, but without shirt, leggings or moccasins, he set out, bow and quiver at his side. He said that clothing made too much noise in the brush, and naturally one is more cautious in his movements when reminded by his sensitive hide that he is touching a sharp twig.


Scent control was very important to Native Americans who were hunting with bows and arrows.

Modern hunting mainly involved the use of firearms so scent control became less important. It is lessons from grandpa and great grandpa using their rifles that lead to the nonsense we hear today about scent control not being useful. Not using scent control when hunting is a relatively recent idea. 

As interest in archery hunting grew over the last few decades, the greatly improved ability of hunters to get within 20-30 yards of deer using good scent control has become essential for many hunters to achieve consistent success with archery equipment.

Unfortunately, many people let their existing mindset, handed down from a rifle culture, keep them from discovering the radical difference in deer encounters that can be achieved and sustained over many hunts on small properties through employment of good scent control.


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

Activated carbon in the form of charcoal has been used for scent control by native hunting and gathering cultures for a long time. I would not be surprised if hunters have been using charcoal for scent control for as long as they have been making fire. 

LINK


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## Davelobi (Feb 14, 2012)

I wish I could remember where I read this to credit the author..
Guy talked about hunting deer where humans live (100% of my deer hunting). Deer have smelled humans, seen them, watched them, etc. I think we can all agree that we will never be scent free but a lot of things can be done to reduce our scent in the woods. A deer, when it smells something, makes a decision on the danger involved with the new scent it has just picked up. If it smells a human (or something it relates to a human) but the scent is faint (ie far away) it will not be alarmed like it would if the scent was close or strong. If you drastically reduce your scent then the deer will only smell a faint smell rather than a strong smell from any given distance. If the deer thinks you are further away it will not be as alarmed. Make sense? Does to me.


I've been through different stages over the years on levels of scent control including hanging all hunting clothes outside (under a tarp hung in the trees) where I stripped down to my bvd's and put on all my hunting gear that never had been in the house. I now mainly use the wind, keep clothes out of the house and keep my all rubber boots outdoors all the time.


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## standsetter (Dec 2, 2007)

bioactive said:


> As farmlegend said, this is a straw man.
> 
> I recently told the story of my hunt for my main target buck of the year in (in my trespassing thread).
> 
> ...


"I ended the season not trying". A perfect example of one of the trade offs associated with a rigid scent control requirement. 

IMO, a season's twilight is the time to trust in your preparations, not your patience.


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## standsetter (Dec 2, 2007)

QDMAMAN said:


> I started killing the kind of bucks I wanted to kill when I quit listening to me.


Me too.

Once I quit listening to what I was saying I found it easier to focus on what I was doing.


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## GRUNDY (Jun 18, 2005)

I believe in scent control. I also believe that I'm too lazy/don't believe in it enough to take it extreme to the point where it takes the fun out of hunting.



Brian


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

GRUNDY said:


> I believe in scent control. I also believe that I'm too lazy/don't believe in it enough to take it extreme to the point where it takes the fun out of hunting.
> 
> 
> 
> Brian



No kidding, I cant count how many times I have rushed home from work to grab my stuff with no time to take a shower, just change real quick into camo, and go and kill a buck.

Sometimes I even went with my work cloths on and killed deer.

These guys that get naked in the dark in freezing temps, then put on all there specially packed scentlok clothing out of their carbon dusted airtight totes are freaking CRAZY. 

A lot of them haven't even killed very many deer, but they were somehow brainwashed by a hunting TV program or Magazine article.

If I had to tote all my camo, strip down, and get dressed in the field to kill a deer, I would quit hunting.


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

standsetter said:


> "I ended the season not trying". A perfect example of one of the trade offs associated with a rigid scent control requirement.
> 
> IMO, a season's twilight is the time to trust in your preparations, not your patience.


I guess it all depends on what your goals are.

I understand the concept of pulling out all the stops at the end of the season.

But really, the season in some ways is just beginning for me.

January is a time when I can go in and see where bucks were bedding (if I haven't disrupted them).

I can get trail camera pics.

I went out today and cut down a bunch of trees and set up a trail camera on them to try and see what bucks survived the season. I am pretty sure I will get a pic of most of the bucks in the area with those fresh buds on the ground. It is hard to measure the pleasure of these post season experiences. 

It really isn't just about killing a buck for me.

Really. 

I am perfectly comfortable with seeing if I can get him next year. If I don't, well, there is always the year after that.


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## RMH (Jan 17, 2009)

Bloodrunner said:


> No kidding, I cant count how many times I have rushed home from work to grab my stuff with no time to take a shower, just change real quick into camo, and go and kill a buck.
> 
> Sometimes I even went with my work cloths on and killed deer.
> 
> ...


One things for certain ...you like to kill deer. I hate to burst your bubble but many many many people you are chatting with here can kill plenty of deer without the use of scent control.

You can bet you last dollar there are not as many people that can say they enjoyed watching deer from their stand all day and say "not even one deer detected my presence". 

With extreme scent control I can now say this happens to me much more than before scent control.

For me at my stage of my hunting career I get just as much pleasure coming in from a hunt and being able to say "I was not detected" as to "I killed a deer".


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

RMH said:


> For me at my stage of my hunting career I get just as much pleasure coming in from a hunt and being able to say "I was not detected" as to "I killed a deer".


Bingo. I get great satisfaction from getting into a sensitive area with my scent control, clean, groomed approach/depature routes, putting in a long sit while suspended in my treesaddle in the hardwoods, seeing lots of deer, getting undetected, than climbing down and making it out stealthily. Besides the preparations, it also often involves remaining motionless for extended periods of time when deer are in close, even when muscles cramp, limbs twitch, and body parts go numb. Even if there's no kill opportunity, this sort of thing still defines a great hunt. And, overwhelmingly, I couldn't pull these sorts of hunts off very often, if ever, in my pre-scent control/clean approach/departure route days.

Without question, even when I have my best scent control game going, I still get winded on occasion. But when I do, it is different than pre-scent control. My presence is only noted by deer when they're pretty close in, and they often exhibit the "faint scent illusion" body language. It's been years since I heard or observed a deer 80+ yards away go into an instant negative reaction to my scent. Nowadays, when I hear a doe angrily blowing/snorting within my earshot, it's most likely caused by another hunter, and less likely caused by a marauding dog.


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## wild bill (Apr 20, 2001)

Bloodrunner said:


> A lot of them haven't even killed very many deer, but they were somehow brainwashed by a hunting TV program or Magazine article.


no hunting show or magazine brainwashed me. my own personal experience did and i will keep enjoying my hunts as sent free as i can.


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

RMH said:


> One things for certain ...you like to kill deer. I hate to burst your bubble but many many many people you are chatting with here can kill plenty of deer without the use of scent control.
> 
> You can bet you last dollar there are not as many people that can say they enjoyed watching deer from their stand all day and say "not even one deer detected my presence".
> 
> ...



What? Don't you think if I was being "detected" I would try something different? I can kill a deer every time I go on stand, I don't hunt unless I am positive I will see deer.


This season I hunted in Mi. a total of 17 hours(8 sets) and killed my two target bucks and a late season doe. The 5 times I sat that I didn't shoot I had deer within bow range but didn't want any of them. My last set Dec. 18 I had 4 bucks in front of me, two of them were APR legal, and about a dozen does and buttons. The wind was perfect for that blind and I wore Carhartts.


Deer hunting is a game too me, I pride myself in "hit n runs" I don't want to hunt everyday. I am over the whole "deer watching" gig. My *goal* is to go in and kill the deer I want in the least amount of time possible.


This summer I will be setting up many more trailcams at my old faithful stand locations I didn't hunt this season, to see if MAPR's helped produce more quality deer. 


I will then will determine my plan of attack at the end of Sept.


Proper stand location, fresh washed cloths in baking soda, and rubber boots is all you need.


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

Has anyone figured out how Mi. hunters absolutely slaughtered the deer herd with record harvest numbers, back before ScentLok was invented?


Back before ScentLok came out in 1992, we were killing 4 bucks a year wearing green Army Surplus coveralls and old brown jersey gloves. Must of been the baking soda?


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

Bloodrunner said:


> Proper stand location, fresh washed cloths in baking soda, and rubber boots is all you need.


You mean those things "is all *you* need" [sic]. Since others may have goals different from yours, how can you presume that you know what *they* "need"?


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## Nocturnal Ghost (May 26, 2011)

bioactive said:


> since others may have goals different from yours, how can you presume that you know what *they* "need"?


 hmm...


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

Bloodrunner said:


> Has anyone figured out how Mi. hunters absolutely slaughtered the deer herd with record harvest numbers, back before ScentLok was invented?
> 
> 
> Back before ScentLok came out in 1992, we were killing 4 bucks a year wearing green Army Surplus coveralls and old brown jersey gloves. Must of been the baking soda?


Killing a deer is easy. Killing the deer you want to kill may require some skills of various levels. Keeping a deer you want to kill on a property you hunt takes some skills and precautions. If you only have minimal acreage to hunt and you like to hunt more than less, then you better use some extreme scent control if you intend to kill that target deer.


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

bioactive said:


> You mean those things "is all *you* need" [sic]. Since others may have goals different from yours, how can you presume that you know what *they* "need"?


True. I hear BR kills better than average deer for the area. But not all of the bucks he kills would even make the hit list for some of us. So ya. ......depends on how high you set the bar.


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

bucksnbows said:


> Killing a deer is easy. Killing the deer you want to kill may require some skills of various levels. Keeping a deer you want to kill on a property you hunt takes some skills and precautions. If you only have minimal acreage to hunt and you like to hunt more than less, then you better use some extreme scent control if you intend to kill that target deer.




If you have small acreage and want to kill your target deer, you should switch to my "Hit n Run" method. Many times it only takes one hunt.


If your land provides Cover, Food, and water it is almost impossible to make the deer leave. Maybe if you really worked at it they would turn nocturnal, but they wont leave.


And like you said, killing deer is easy, why would it take many hunts to do it?


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

Bloodrunner said:


> Has anyone figured out how Mi. hunters absolutely slaughtered the deer herd with record harvest numbers, back before ScentLok was invented?
> 
> Back before ScentLok came out in 1992, we were killing 4 bucks a year wearing green Army Surplus coveralls and old brown jersey gloves. Must of been the baking soda?


Killing bucks without scent control would not be difficult for many of the guys you are preaching to in this thread. 

Your priorities are clearly different than a number of the guys you are talking to. For most of us, there is far more to deer hunting than just killing deer. 

Take the 9 point buck in this 30 second video for example. I passed this buck, which would easily meet the requirements for a CBM archery buck, on November 9th, and got to pass him again with my Muzzleloader on December 7th. If I had shot him the first time, guess what? I would not have had the second encounter. Not only that, but I would not have the opportunity to possibly meet him again next year. I never even picked my weapon up. I was too busy with the camera. 

[youtube]PKGTDLYpGDg&feature=c4-overview&list=UU0uGPiDMHTFQHkviRmR2zvg[/youtube]


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

bucksnbows said:


> True. I hear BR kills better than average deer for the area. But not all of the bucks he kills would even make the hit list for some of us. So ya. ......depends on how high you set the bar.



Very true, some of the deer the NW12 guys want to kill you Southern guys may want to let walk. 


This is true for all areas one hunts, your standards are based on what is available. If I am hunting an area I know has big deer my standards go up, if I am in an area where a 100" deer is really nice, than killing him is the goal. 


I have also found that deer in the big buck States are not any harder to kill than the deer I hunt at home, they are just bigger. I killed my biggest deer 167" at 15 feet. He was so close that all I seen thru the peep was hair, I had to take a second look to make sure I was looking at the right hair.


Take inventory, then set your standards.


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

bioactive said:


> Killing bucks without scent control would not be difficult for many of the guys you are preaching to in this thread.
> 
> Your priorities are clearly different than a number of the guys you are talking to. For most of us, there is far more to deer hunting than just killing deer.
> 
> ...



Show me pictures of the deer you wanted to kill, besides that weird looking 6-point.


Did you even have any bucks around that meet your standards? Where are these 4.5 year old 140+" deer?


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

I want to see pics of the bucks you elite SLP guys were hunting and wanted to kill.


Hunting a deer that you don't know exists doesn't make any sense.


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

Bloodrunner said:


> If you have small acreage and want to kill your target deer, you should switch to my "Hit n Run" method. Many times it only takes one hunt.
> 
> 
> If your land provides Cover, Food, and water it is almost impossible to make the deer leave. Maybe if you really worked at it they would turn nocturnal, but they wont leave.
> ...


......and if the hit n run doesn't work? 
......or the target buck gets killed else where. 
...,,or there is no target buck living on the properly and you have to rely on cruising bucks.
...... food, cover and water. .....it doesn't take much to push a mature buck off of 40 acres.


Killing deer is easy......Killing the deer can be difficult


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## RMH (Jan 17, 2009)

Bloodrunner said:


> What? Don't you think if I was being "detected" I would try something different? I can kill a deer every time I go on stand, I don't hunt unless I am positive I will see deer.
> 
> 
> > One thing I am saying that you do not understand is it is easy to kill a deer without be undetected. Scent control comes into the picture *after* you don't kill the deer.


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

bucksnbows said:


> ......and if the hit n run doesn't work?
> ......or the target buck gets killed else where.
> ...,,or there is no target buck living on the properly and you have to rely on cruising bucks.
> ...... food, cover and water. .....it doesn't take much to push a mature buck off of 40 acres.
> ...



Did you get any pics last season of a deer you would kill?


On the one property I hunted last year I had 4 different bucks that I had pics of and would kill if I got the chance. 


If I didn't have any pics of deer that I would kill I would not of wasted my time hunting there and would have looked elsewhere. If I didn't have any other place to hunt I would have lowered my standards or went fishing. I don't hunt deer that I don't know exist.


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## wild bill (Apr 20, 2001)

bioactive said:


> Your priorities are clearly different than a number of the guys you are talking to. For most of us, there is far more to deer hunting than just killing deer.


guess we been doing it all wrong bio. hunting is clearly about killing deer.


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

RMH said:


> Bloodrunner said:
> 
> 
> > What? Don't you think if I was being "detected" I would try something different? I can kill a deer every time I go on stand, I don't hunt unless I am positive I will see deer.
> ...


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## RMH (Jan 17, 2009)

Bloodrunner said:


> Did you get any pics last season of a deer you would kill?
> 
> 
> On the one property I hunted last year I had 4 different bucks that I had pics of and would kill if I got the chance.
> ...


The reason you are not seeing eye to eye with anybody in this thread is your standards are set lower than most others in this this thread.


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## standsetter (Dec 2, 2007)

bioactive said:


> I guess it all depends on what your goals are.
> 
> I understand the concept of pulling out all the stops at the end of the season.
> 
> ...


I completely understand, no criticism intended.


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## standsetter (Dec 2, 2007)

bioactive said:


> You mean those things "is all *you* need" [sic]. Since others may have goals different from yours, how can you presume that you know what *they* "need"?


:yikes: That's what I'd like to know.


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

RMH said:


> Not reallyne_eye:.......
> 
> Bloodrunners antler obsessions thru it off track a little though...lol.


I just like seeing what a "high standard" deer looks like:lol:


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

CHASINEYES said:


> I hunt using the wind these days. I've gone through the whole scent reduction routine and decided it was a pain. If I could find an easier routine I may take it up again sometime. Reducing scent no doubt helps as I've seen the results. They may still detect you but its so minimal they go back to a relaxed state.
> 
> My program was washing clothes in baking soda then hanging outside to dry. Taking a shower using baking soda before the hunt. Place cloths in plastic bag, add more soda then shake. Spray boots inside and out, spray socks and inside/outside of hat. Before touching boots or clothing I would spray my hands.



Gotta love Baking Soda, I swear it draws them in, they sure are not afraid of it. I believe it is one of the main ingredients in DeerCain.

Yep, just checked a bag of DeerCain Black Magic and the second highest ingredient is Sodium bicarbonate. No wonder the deer come runnin, LOL!


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## RMH (Jan 17, 2009)

Bloodrunner said:


> I could have easily filled my buck tag, had 6 different bucks between 110-130" within 30 yards. And seen countless little bucks.


Hopefully you learned from your Ohio hunts......with better scent control and the right stand placement maybe you will be able to connect next season.....Good Luck!!!


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## oldrank (Dec 5, 2006)

RMH said:


> We're MEN... shouldn't you be watching Piers Morgan or something???





haha....nice come back...ill take that one


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

RMH said:


> Hopefully you learned from your Ohio hunts......with better scent control and the right stand placement maybe you will be able to connect next season.....Good Luck!!!



I will work on it. Still not sure I used enough baking soda, might have to double my dose next year.


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## RMH (Jan 17, 2009)

oldrank said:


> haha....nice come back...ill take that one


:lol: sorry oldrank I shouldn't have blurted that out.


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

Bloodrunner said:


> Gotta love Baking Soda, I swear it draws them in, they sure are not afraid of it. I believe it is one of the main ingredients in DeerCain.
> 
> Yep, just checked a bag of DeerCain Black Magic and the second highest ingredient is Sodium bicarbonate. No wonder the deer come runnin, LOL!


They're definitely not affraid of it. I can get away with more while using it. I had one location that was an awesome funnel but was limited on stand placement due to lack of cover trees. The tree I settled on only put me 10ft high. Deer travel was SE/NW, but they would end up straight east of me at one point in the funnel. The only time I could sit there with a westerly wind was mornings or evenings doing the scent routine with baking soda. Without doing the scent reduction, movement from the SE didn't happen. Night and day difference.


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## shoelessjoe (Dec 13, 2012)

CHASINEYES said:


> They're definitely not affraid of it. I can get away with more while using it. I had one location that was an awesome funnel but was limited on stand placement due to lack of cover trees. The tree I settled on only put me 10ft high. Deer travel was SE/NW, but they would end up straight east of me at one point in the funnel. The only time I could sit there with a westerly wind was mornings or evenings doing the scent routine with baking soda. Without doing the scent reduction, movement from the SE didn't happen. Night and day difference.


I love it. One has to was their clothing in something, I choose baking soda and have since Ive been 14 years old, and that has been a looooonnng time. You can't beat the price, or its uses. I believe that drying your clothing outside is also key, along with never allowing your clothing or boots to see the inside of a dwelling or vehicle. Pack all the clothes to include skivvies and socks, gloves, hats, headnets, thermals, BDU's,... everything with the stuff in the vacuum bags, boots included. Does it work? Have to wash your clothes anyway, and you can't beat the price for its many uses (consistant).


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

I think.......repeat. .....think baking soda has brightners in it. They say most detergents make you glow...I'm not a deer so I don't know if that is true.

As for scent buster dust. Yes it is messy. Any part of your body that is touching clothing that has it will get dirty .......kind of like what your hands look like after touching charcoal. ..,but not as bad.

The mess doesn't bother me.

The regimen sounds more painful than it is. Most of the prep work is done long before the hunt. The rest is basically just keeping your gear from getting contaminated. Which is easily done by not taking or wearing your gear any where but in the field.
Other than that it just requires your to wash your body with scent free soap before hunting. A good scrubbing with a lufa(sp) Is recommended.


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

.......and of course the wind is important too.


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

shoelessjoe said:


> I believe that drying your clothing outside is also key, along with.....



I used to do this, but found it didn't work so well for me during December or on rainy days. Perhaps I never mastered the proper clothesline technique.


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

A reminder of what the thread was originally about.

Here is my synopsis (parapharasing?) of my rather long and detailed OP:

You do not need extreme scent control to be successful at harvesting deer.

Many very successful hunters do not worry too much about scent control.

Many hunters are skeptical about scent control because they have tried this or that and it did not "work" for them.

Others really don't care at all what they see or harvest. It does not make sense for them to worry about scent control.

If you are one of the skeptics, you probably had a serious hole in your program. If you were working a solid full scent control regimen, you would see a radical difference.

This thread was *not* about what bucks there are in the neighborhood. Most hunters are not obsessed with shooting big bucks, they just want to see more deer and not witness the deterioration of their hunting spot with successive hunts.

This thread was *not* about any individual product. Personally, I try to talk more people *out* of buying SBD than I try to talk *into* it. Really, if you don't work a full program, there is no product that will help. Wearing a carbon suit is a complete waste of money unless you are doing a bunch of other things so that you are not carrying human scent wicks out to the woods with you. 

It has been a while since this thread has been about anything except who is the best hunter. Now we are being told there is a "magic dust" called baking soda that is all anyone needs...:lol:.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

Bloodrunner said:


> How can anyone possibly set their harvest *standards* without pics of the deer in your area? Do you just hope one of the bucks down the road travel over to your place? And how do you know there is any big deer living down the road?
> 
> 
> You guys keep preaching how important *extreme scent control* is to kill big deer, and yet you don't have any proof there is any big deer where you hunt? What am I missing here?


I find it interesting that you aren't able to determine what buck to target without *Extreme Scouting Camera Usage*.
How did you ever kill a deer before you started using cameras?


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

GRUNDY said:


> Has anyone tried scentbuster dust yet?
> 
> That's really the whole point of this thread isn't it?


No, discussing a single product would be off the topic of the original post. 



GRUNDY said:


> Does the dust really work? Just how messy is it really?


Whether Scentbuster Dust or any other product works or does not work is immaterial to this thread.

This thread was aimed at trying to understand why different folks, based on their experiences, have the varying opinions (all of which by the way have some validity) that scent control (1) isn't needed, or (2) doesn't work, or (3) is extremely useful. 

On the one extreme you can be an extremely successful big buck hunter without using any scent control products. 

On the other extreme, you can be a hunter that uses scent control to help prevent the decline in deer numbers seen when hunting repeatedly in the same spots. 

Using any one product will really do very little for you.

I talk guys out of using SBD on a regular basis if they are not working a full scent control program and think that it is magic dust. It ain't.


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

bioactive said:


> No, discussing a single product would be the opposite of the aim of the original post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Knowing how scent control will work in your favor by using BS I have no doubts Scentbuster Dust will do the same. I have to agree if you have a hole in your program its going to be detrimental to your efforts. That hole is what makes it a pain.

I once had a nice 3.5 or 4 yr old so fired up by dropping tinks into his scrapes daily at lunch time, I couldn't beat him to the scrapes for an afternoon sit. He would tear the place up mid-afternoon. His scrapes were very close to his bedding area. Wearing sprayed down hip boots I was able to get in and doctor his scrapes each day without being detected. I wouldn't allow a twig or blade of grass touch above those boots.

On my third or fourth sit in that stand I finally had an encounter with him. N/W wind was perfect. My evening ended full draw with the buck standing N/W of me at 25 yards, but quartering to me. Even though I was facing the wind, every gust I could feel a slight breeze on the back of my neck. That's what happened while I was at full draw. That deer went nuts, instant maniac never to be seen again. Had I been using a scent control program,(which I wasn't that day) I'm confident I would have been given a shot before being detected. Those scrapes died on that day and if I hadn't been using scent control while doctoring those scrapes, they probably would have died much sooner. This was mid to late october.

It only takes a few sits to burn out a stand location. Every situation is different. I've seen deer you couldn't pushed out of the area, but not many.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

Most of the posters on here likely hunt in Lower Peninsula areas where deer are fairly used to contacting humans on a regular basis. From what I have seen and heard from other savvy hunters, deer in those areas do not react to human scent nearly as radically as they do in areas where contact with humans are rare. Where I have hunted in S. MI, I have had deer smell me many, many times without spooking much. In some areas, like right behind my house, they don't react to human scent at all. In the U.P. where I hunt mostly now though, if a deer gets the slightest whiff of me, they snort and run off every single time regardless of the scent control measures I take. I think a lot of hunters that hunt farm country or Xburbs give way too much credence to scent control due to their observations, when in reality the deer they are hunting are just conditioned to human contact and act accordingly.


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

QDMAMAN said:


> I find it interesting that you aren't able to determine what buck to target without *Extreme Scouting Camera Usage*.
> How did you ever kill a deer before you started using cameras?



Before cameras we looked at the deer and then we decided to shoot it or not. Many times it was a split second decision and didn't work out well for the deer.


Now with cameras I know what the inventory is. Example, last season I had pics of 18-20 different bucks hitting my mineral stations on a regular basis. I decided 4 of them were worthy to ride in my truck, and the others are free to live.


So with all those pics and knowing what deer are around I could hold out for 2 of the 4 worthy deer and let the smaller ones walk. Many of the smaller bucks were MAPR legal, but I set my standards to wait on the deer I wanted.


Cameras are a great tool, and even a fun hobby of getting pics of the wildlife.

Without seeing the deer you are only guessing how big it is, I have seen it all, little bucks working a huge rub or scrape, actually multiple deer use the same rubs and scrapes. Pics or actually seeing the deer takes the guess work out.


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## Huntmaster143 (Aug 28, 2003)

I personally fall under the "I'm not dedicated enough to spend the effort every time I go in the woods" category of scent control...

However, if I'm in serious buck hunting mode, I have a couple stand setups that have golden approaches that allow me access by crossing a lake to get to them. I use the deadly access, a proper wind and SBD on my boots. This combination has been very successful for me over the past several years.

I will add that as mainly a bow hunter, the SBD on my boots has helped in several different ways for me. Even if someone didn't want to do anything else (which I am one of them), I would definitely use it for your boots to cover your access trail in and right around your stand. I keep my boots in a tub and add SBD every time I wear them.


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

One more thing on cameras, besides knowing what deer there are around, the best thing about cameras is knowing what time the deer came by. I have had bucks patterned that I knew within 15 min when they were going to show up. 


The plotwatcher feature is amazing at telling the story, many times the buck you want to kill uses different very small secondary trails to the fields than what the does use. Without this tool a hunter will set up on the big runways and watch multiple does file by and the big boy steps out 100 yards away. Knowing this you can set up wind friendly.


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## shoelessjoe (Dec 13, 2012)

farmlegend said:


> I used to do this, but found it didn't work so well for me during December or on rainy days. Perhaps I never mastered the proper clothesline technique.


Rain? That's what gazebo's are for IMO, other people have some silly idea they are for other things. As for DEC, I can't remember the last time I had to hunt in DEC. But that said, I have more than enough of everything for 10 days if I had too ( lots of BDU's accumulated over the years), and as long as the sun is shining and its around 35 or better you could get a load done on the line if need be, if not, that is when the "wind" REALLY comes into play (out there really stink'n the joint up), LOL!. I never say never when it comes to hunting.


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## billmitch (Dec 21, 2009)

IMO, there is some truth to both sides. I try to be as scent masked as possible, but have seen to many instances of big bucks being shot in circumstances that were far from ideal scent control.
There are a lot of good products out there that help control the level of your stink, but I would say we are fooling ourselves if we thought we could eliminate it. Obviously, deer in the U.P. Will be less conditioned to human scent then the SLP where I hunt. However, I am quite certain I've been busted by a good many deer I never knew were there.
Whatever works for each individual guy is the most powerful testimony for them, and not much else matters.


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

billmitch said:


> Whatever works for each individual guy is the most powerful testimony for them, and not much else matters.


But does that mean they are right and can tell everyone else they are a fool for thinking otherwise?

There ya go blood, I just lobbed one into your wheel house. ....,don't miss it


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## standsetter (Dec 2, 2007)

bucksnbows said:


> But does that mean they are right and can tell everyone else they are a fool for thinking otherwise?
> 
> There ya go blood, I just lobbed one into your wheel house. ....,don't miss it


He's making me dizzy. He can't make up his mind if he wants to convince everyone of his hunting prowess or convince us he's a scrub with a crossbow and a game camera. 

Which ever it is, it seems to be working. The sun is definitely shining on his ass. :lol:


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

standsetter said:


> He's making me dizzy. He can't make up his mind if he wants to convince everyone of his hunting prowess or convince us he's a scrub with a crossbow and a game camera.
> 
> Which ever it is, it seems to be working. The sun is definitely shining on his ass. :lol:


Home run.


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

bucksnbows said:


> But does that mean they are right and can tell everyone else they are a fool for thinking otherwise?
> 
> There ya go blood, I just lobbed one into your wheel house. ....,don't miss it



I am not telling anyone to not buy Scentlok clothing, Im just saying it is a total waste of money


Many times early season I hunt with my jacket zipped half way down, how would that work wearing a scentlok coat? Or is there scentlok undershirts too? Do you wear scentlok gloves and hat? How bout socks and underwear? Is there a scentlok backpack? Do you carbon dust your bow, gun, rangefinder, bino's, grunt calls, cell phone, tree steps and stand? Can you eat or drink anything when hunting?


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## hunting man (Mar 2, 2005)

I agree with Blood about the scent control and scent-lok. We kill nice deer every year on NELP state land and on our SELP/NELP private tracts. 


Some hunters never get a good buck not matter what. I bet there are more than a few of the later talking down to Blood. They might be able to talk a good deer hunting game but cant close the deal consistently.


Most of the time I have been getting a nice buck the first time I sit a stand. Sometimes it has been the same day we set it up. 


One thing I have learned over the years is, if a hunter smokes in the stand. We haven't gotten big bucks from that stand the rest of that season.


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

standsetter said:


> He's making me dizzy. He can't make up his mind if he wants to convince everyone of his hunting prowess or convince us he's a scrub with a crossbow and a game camera.
> 
> Which ever it is, it seems to be working. The sun is definitely shining on his ass. :lol:



Just kickin back getting an education on how you city folk view deer hunting. It is an eye opening experience. 


I have killed a few Kent County bucks in the immediate Grand Rapids area and they didn't seem as smart as you guys make them out to be? One buck I killed I could see cars driving down 44th St. and the East Beltline, I wasn't even wearing scentlok, and that was with a Vert bow, maybe I got lucky


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

Bloodrunner said:


> I am not telling anyone to not buy Scentlok clothing, Im just saying it is a total waste of money
> 
> 
> Many times early season I hunt with my jacket zipped half way down, how would that work wearing a scentlok coat? Or is there scentlok undershirts too? Do you wear scentlok gloves and hat? How bout socks and underwear? Is there a scentlok backpack? Do you carbon dust your bow, gun, rangefinder, bino's, grunt calls, cell phone, tree steps and stand? Can you eat or drink anything when hunting?


Sorry.......you missed it again.


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

> Most of the time I have been getting a nice buck the first time I sit a stand. Sometimes it has been the same day we set it up.


This is real hunting, finding a fresh scrape line, hot runway down a travel corridor, ect. Put up the stand and kill the deer the same day, this is exactly how I learned to hunt. Scout out State land till you found what you wanted, then you hunt. My dad and I would walk for hours just looking for the right scrapes to hunt.


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

hunting man said:


> I agree with Blood about the scent control and scent-lok. We kill nice deer every year on NELP state land and on our SELP/NELP private tracts.
> 
> 
> Some hunters never get a good buck not matter what. I bet there are more than a few of the later talking down to Blood. They might be able to talk a good deer hunting game but cant close the deal consistently.
> ...


Strike one


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

bucksnbows said:


> Sorry.......you missed it again.


You keep doing what you're doing, and I'll keep doing what I am doing


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

Here is a true story for you. 


Remember the guy at the Ohio camp that got naked before and after every hunt in the dark in freezing temps I talked about. Well he was from the city and didn't have much of a resume on killing deer. 


Another guy I hunted with in Ohio was a Top editor from Buckmasters magazine, this guy has killed numerous HUGE bucks all over the United States and he lived in Alabama. He would get fully dressed in his hunting cloths with me at the camp before we drove to our hunting site.


Hmmm? This guy is best friends with Jackie Bushman and told us many cool deer hunting stories. Why didn't he use all the carbon dust and BS? He could have every scent control item ever invented for free?


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

Bloodrunner said:


> You keep doing what you're doing, and I'll keep doing what I am doing


I wouldn't expect you to change. Your way works for you, but the way you hunt and the way I hunt are night and day different.

Let me explain why I keep saying you missed it.

You are so set on saying this doesn't work, this isn't needed, your deer are different, that every time anyone says something that you don't feel is needed or works you tell us about it. I bet if I said deer were brown you would tell me they were gray.:lol: 

You say if you don't have any target bucks in an area you hunt another.

Well I don't hunt that way because I know just because if I don't have them on camera doesn't mean they are not there or won't eventually be there. Therefore I have to prepare for what I can not focus on at the present time. Which leads me back to when I say, it is not the deer you see but the ones you don't. Also I don't have multiple properties to hunt, I don't hunt state land and I limit myself to where I am at because I enjoy everything it has to offer me. Just because I don't consistently kill big bucks every year doesn't mean I don't consistently get a chance to 

All things you describe seeing in the woods just using rubber boots and baking soda I have seen the same things by not doing too much more but the same. I have also seen deer come out of their skin. 

I like to stack the odds in my favor. Because I don't hunt multiple properties, because I can't just hunt under the most favorable conditions
and because I don't always have a buck patterned, I have to adjust.

This adjustment required a lot of changes in the way I hunt and it also included going to a more extreme scent control. 

You also like to stack the odds in your favor. You wash your clothes in BS for a reason, you use cameras for a reason, etc. Dan Infalt (google him) would laugh at you for using BS.........he uses what ever the wife uses when washing clothes. If he has rubber boots on....its because he has to walk in water.

Your style of hunting doesn't put you on the same property unless you have a reason to be there and like you pointed out.......it only took 17 hours of hunting.

I don't discredit your skills, its obvious you got some. 

But lets look at facts.............


Activated carbon does absorb scent.

Scent sprays do eliminate some scent.

Unscented soaps and detergents, do not smell.

The less foreign scent you take into the woods the less scent you give off or leave behind.

Ozone does kill bacteria which eliminates scent.

Getting dressed outside is not going to pick up any scent like smoke, food, human odor, etc.

So to say that stuff doesn't work is just not true. When it doesn't work it is because, like bio says, you have too many holes in the bucket. 

I get busted, but the deer don't flip out. They may change paths, but their reaction is much better than with my old ways.

I used to have good hunting with not much more scent control than what you do, I now have even better hunting with what I do now. If I hunted more properties I would probably do less scent control and focus more on hunting bucks that I know are there now, rather than waiting for them to show up.

I only saw one shooter in Michigan this year.........turns out that is all I needed to see


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## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

Bloodrunner said:


> A good outfitter puts up different stands everyday based on client deer sightings, they are constantly working. Monster bucks get killed every year by going in and putting up a stand and killing that deer the same day.
> 
> 
> If I were you guys hunting these super power elite deer you have, I would try tag teaming it. 2 hunters go in, and only one comes out. I would also let these freak deer know who I am and I mean no threat year round.
> ...


I have to agree with the killing or missing a big mature deer the same day as the stand was hung from my experiences. As far as deer knowing me I would also agree since I am constantly bumping them around before bow season. My goal is to get the doe use to me that way the buck is completely clueless and will trust his ladies. I usually walk my dog into bedding areas during spring and summer just so the doe and fawns get use to me and my dogs scent. I know it sounds crazy but I litterally have doe and fawn follow where we walked up into my yard towards my house. Pretty comical


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

bucksnbows said:


> I wouldn't expect you to change. Your way works for you, but the way you hunt and the way I hunt are night and day different.
> 
> Let me explain why I keep saying you missed it.
> 
> ...



That's cool, you're very dedicated and I respect that, I like hunters that try.


Todays posts stemmed from Bio's statement saying deer will smell his walking path look both ways freak out then vacate the area without using his scent control system? I have never heard or seen anything of the sort, that is total BS. What could you possibly wear on your feet to make that happen?



And my deer are not different? I have hunted deer in Alabama,Kentucky,Ohio,Iowa, and Illinois. I have hunted and killed bucks all over the State of Mi. in 8 different Counties. Deer are deer for the most part. Actually it has been said by many members and myself that hunting remote location deer like in the U.P. is much harder than SLP deer?


I guess I just have an attitude against Scentlok, I truly think it is an overpriced scam, they prey on naïve hunters. 


I know many excellent hunters that have killed MONSTER deer all over the Midwest that never fell for the hype. They use traditional fleece type camo. 


There is a reason Scentlok was sued many times by hunters that feel they were wronged. Some hunters came to realize they were ripped off and wanted others to know. If you look at other hunting forums the majority of hunters out there don't promote Scentlok.


So I am not knocking your system, always do what gives you confidence, I am okay with that. And I really do hope you guys kill the deer you want, Bio included.


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

cakebaker said:


> I have to agree with the killing or missing a big mature deer the same day as the stand was hung from my experiences. As far as deer knowing me I would also agree since I am constantly bumping them around before bow season. My goal is to get the doe use to me that way the buck is completely clueless and will trust his ladies. I usually walk my dog into bedding areas during spring and summer just so the doe and fawns get use to me and my dogs scent. I know it sounds crazy but I litterally have doe and fawn follow where we walked up into my yard towards my house. Pretty comical




I believe you, sneaking around your hunting property is probably the worst thing you can do. 


The deer know you are or were there, so why be sneaky about it, that just makes them uneasy and afraid of you.


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

cakebaker said:


> I have to agree with the killing or missing a big mature deer the same day as the stand was hung from my experiences. As far as deer knowing me I would also agree since I am constantly bumping them around before bow season. My goal is to get the doe use to me that way the buck is completely clueless and will trust his ladies. I usually walk my dog into bedding areas during spring and summer just so the doe and fawns get use to me and my dogs scent. I know it sounds crazy but I litterally have doe and fawn follow where we walked up into my yard towards my house. Pretty comical


Doesn't sound crazy at all. I've had conversations with a few hunters from the area about these modern cagey as all get out deer. Most of them agree the reason is because of the fragment land and much of it doesn't have humans step foot in it until gun season, if then. Years ago more people got outside, small game hunters covered the landscape. Dirt bikes, quads and kids used to play outside.lol 

I can't remember the last time I had a doe who knew something was up try to pin my location. They get a whif now and they're gone. Two seasons ago I had a doe and her two fawns pass under my stand a half dozen sits. Then one evening she took a different turn that put her on my walk in trail but still upwind of me. I sh__ you not, when she hit my trail she almost done a complete backflip. Lol Last time she passed that stand. They don't all act like that but its becoming more common.


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## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

CHASINEYES said:


> Doesn't sound crazy at all. I've had conversations with a few hunters from the area about these modern cagey as all get out deer. Most of them agree the reason is because of the fragment land and much of it doesn't have humans step foot in it until gun season, if then. Years ago more people got outside, small game hunters covered the landscape. Dirt bikes, quads and kids used to play outside.lol
> 
> I can't remember the last time I had a doe who knew something was up try to pin my location. They get a whif now and they're gone. Two seasons ago I had a doe and her two fawns pass under my stand a half dozen sits. Then one evening she took a different turn that put her on my walk in trail but still upwind of me. I sh__ you not, when she hit my trail she almost done a complete backflip. Lol Last time she passed that stand. They don't all act like that but its becoming more common.


I think the youth and eas seasons have got us to this point.


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

CHASINEYES said:


> Doesn't sound crazy at all. I've had conversations with a few hunters from the area about these modern cagey as all get out deer. Most of them agree the reason is because of the fragment land and much of it doesn't have humans step foot in it until gun season, if then. Years ago more people got outside, small game hunters covered the landscape. Dirt bikes, quads and kids used to play outside.lol
> 
> I can't remember the last time I had a doe who knew something was up try to pin my location. They get a whif now and they're gone. Two seasons ago I had a doe and her two fawns pass under my stand a half dozen sits. Then one evening she took a different turn that put her on my walk in trail but still upwind of me. I sh__ you not, when she hit my trail she almost done a complete backflip. Lol Last time she passed that stand. They don't all act like that but its becoming more common.



Coming from you I can believe it, that is crazy your deer in the SLP are becoming so educated. The never ending gun season and doe slaughter probably doesn't help. Deer are easily manipulated and killed, but they are catching on it seems.

You should start building airtight bubble box blinds with carbon filter exhaust fans. You could make a fortune


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## Jager Pro (Nov 8, 2013)

cakebaker said:


> I think the youth and eas seasons have got us to this point.


This won't turn into the "stirring the pot" thread will it?


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

Jager Pro said:


> This won't turn into the "stirring the pot" thread will it?


No, but I do think if you kill a record book deer while wearing ScentLok clothing or scentbuster dust there should be an Asterisk next to it:lol:


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

Bloodrunner said:


> Coming from you I can believe it, that is crazy your deer in the SLP are becoming so educated. The never ending gun season and doe slaughter probably doesn't help. Deer are easily manipulated and killed, but they are catching on it seems.
> 
> You should start building airtight bubble box blinds with carbon filter exhaust fans. You could make a fortune


We do have several groups who start in the EAS and don't quit until jan1. Deer are still easy to kill, but they don't put up with humans as much as in the past. They simply move where they're not bothered.

Wouldn't that bubble blind put more in my pocket by using baking soda. Lol


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

CHASINEYES said:


> We do have several groups who start in the EAS and don't quit until jan1. Deer are still easy to kill, but they don't put up with humans as much as in the past. They simply move where they're not bothered.
> 
> Wouldn't that bubble blind put more in my pocket by using baking soda. Lol



Yeah, the carbon filter fans might freak em out. 

I am thinking Baking Soda fragrance incense sticks would be the golden ticket, we would be rollin in cash. 


Just need to film a deer kill while we have one burning, and the phones will start ringing


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## onenationhere (Dec 18, 2008)

Great thread, I'm enjoying everyone's input. I practice a scent control routine every time I go hunting, actually it's every time I set foot on one of our leases. I have noticed more deer sightings since I started being more conscientious about scent control. I still get busted on occasion but nothing like it used to be when I didn't care where I stored my clothes or boots. My deer encounters have increased 40% since starting my scent control routine and I am trying new things every year to see what I can do to make myself as unnoticeable to deer as possible. I found early on this year that some deer were winding me and added a cover scent to my routine and it worked pretty well because on occasion deer had approached directly down wind of me and did not spook. I'm not using expensive scent loc clothing, none of my gear is top end or expensive. I store my clothing in a bag washed with dead down wind and then stored in a garbage bag. I spray myself with dead down wind before I step foot in the woods and also apply either the earth spray or acorn spray made by hunters specialties. Both of these things are inexpensive and have helped me see more deer. Taking scent control measures is very important in my opinion, so important that I would skip hunting for a day if I thought I didn't have my scent under control.


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

onenationhere said:


> Great thread, I'm enjoying everyone's input. I practice a scent control routine every time I go hunting, actually it's every time I set foot on one of our leases. I have noticed more deer sightings since I started being more conscientious about scent control. I still get busted on occasion but nothing like it used to be when I didn't care where I stored my clothes or boots. My deer encounters have increased 40% since starting my scent control routine and I am trying new things every year to see what I can do to make myself as unnoticeable to deer as possible. I found early on this year that some deer were winding me and added a cover scent to my routine and it worked pretty well because on occasion deer had approached directly down wind of me and did not spook. I'm not using expensive scent loc clothing, none of my gear is top end or expensive. I store my clothing in a bag washed with dead down wind and then stored in a garbage bag. I spray myself with dead down wind before I step foot in the woods and also apply either the earth spray or acorn spray made by hunters specialties. Both of these things are inexpensive and have helped me see more deer. Taking scent control measures is very important in my opinion, so important that I would skip hunting for a day if I thought I didn't have my scent under control.



Nice, I haven't tried the dead down wind stuff, but I did try something different this year. I rubbed EverCalm deer herd on my boots before I walked in, and around my ground blinds on the trees. I am a believer. I have been ground hunting the last two years and enjoy the safety and the challenge.


Clean cloths is really key, I have multiple camo fleece pants and jackets, gloves, hats, and facemasks. That way I always have a fresh set on hand. I refuse to buy Scentlok gear.


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

I've seen guys talk how they love their scentlok then hunt in the same boots and hat that they've been wearing day in day out to gas stations, work or wherever the day takes them. Lol

One thing I haven't seen mentioned for not pushing deer out of your hunting area. I think its a must to have a pair of binos to give your area a good look before climbing down and walking out on evening hunts. I hate bumping deer even in the dark. IMO, bumping them after climbing down just helps condition them to move later or it give away your stand location. If darkness falls with deer in your vicinity, use your binos to keep an eye on them; binos gather light. Deer like variety and will move on to the next food source shortly. Same for a long walk from my stand, keep glassing and let them move on. I've had times where I got sick of waiting and had to cough them out, but will always wait out a good buck.


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## shoelessjoe (Dec 13, 2012)

onenationhere said:


> Great thread, I'm enjoying everyone's input. I practice a scent control routine every time I go hunting, actually it's every time I set foot on one of our leases. I have noticed more deer sightings since I started being more conscientious about scent control. I still get busted on occasion but nothing like it used to be when I didn't care where I stored my clothes or boots. My deer encounters have increased 40% since starting my scent control routine and I am trying new things every year to see what I can do to make myself as unnoticeable to deer as possible. I found early on this year that some deer were winding me and added a cover scent to my routine and it worked pretty well because on occasion deer had approached directly down wind of me and did not spook. I'm not using expensive scent loc clothing, none of my gear is top end or expensive. I store my clothing in a bag washed with dead down wind and then stored in a garbage bag. I spray myself with dead down wind before I step foot in the woods and also apply either the earth spray or acorn spray made by hunters specialties. Both of these things are inexpensive and have helped me see more deer. Taking scent control measures is very important in my opinion, so important that I would skip hunting for a day if I thought I didn't have my scent under control.


Boots are number 1 on my list, they are the only item that actually comes into contact with the ground that is a BIG POINTER to where I'm going, and where Ive been. I scrub my boots (100% rubber, no fabric ever) down with pond water and baking soda after I come in, and before I go out. I then put them in a plastic vacuum bag that nothing else has ever been in, I pour some baking soda inside the boots and shake them up. I handle everything with a new pair of latex gloves (powderless). I'll go thru a box of gloves and a case of baking soda a season, both very inexpensive for the results. Ive never used any of the deodorizing sprays on the market because IMO they too are a chemical not native to the environment and a deers nose is very sensitive. Does this work? Ive had excellent results because I have gone out without doing this routine and I spooked quite a few, so this is a religion now. I dress and undress outside either on the open air back porch or the gazebo out at the farm. Im not telling anybody this IS the way, just saying what I do and would never do it different. GOOD LUCK!!!!


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## shoelessjoe (Dec 13, 2012)

CHASINEYES said:


> I've seen guys talk how they love their scentlok then hunt in the same boots and hat that they've been wearing day in day out to gas stations, work or wherever the day takes them. Lol
> 
> One thing I haven't seen mentioned for not pushing deer out of your hunting area. I think its a must to have a pair of binos to give your area a good look before climbing down and walking out on evening hunts. I hate bumping deer even in the dark. IMO, bumping them after climbing down just helps condition them to move later or it give away your stand location. If darkness falls with deer in your vicinity, use your binos to keep an eye on them; binos gather light. Deer like variety and will move on to the next food source shortly. Same for a long walk from my stand, keep glassing and let them move on. I've had times where I got sick of waiting and had to cough them out, but will always wait out a good buck.


Gotta love the guy who practices scent protection and then purchases their bait from the gas station between the pumps or even uptight to the store and wonders why they don't hit their bait or only at night. The only time I use anything, it may be corn that I get from the grain store to establish traffic patterns at a new stand location. However, I prefer my tried and true acorns that I freeze and employ late in the season if Im not seeing enough, or my buddies come out and I want to make sure they do see something due to their time constraints. I prefer the acorns, and rarely use the corn, and I make sure I disperse them as if they just fell off the tree NEVER in a pile, same with the corn, I believe deer will relate a "pile" with human activity. One thing I will use if Im in the stand and hung up after dark with deer around is apples. I will throw apples at the deer to get them out of there. But the best way is to have the wife or buddy roll up on the 4 wheeler with some apples. Throw a few around as if she was feeding, but its just to push them out so I can get down, that works. I step right off the ladder right on or right next to the 4 wheeler, same with going out, I rarely walk out, just roll right up to the tree, deer can't count how many came and went.


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

I learned long ago deer don't like bait piles. Make a pile you get one dominant doe and her fawns hogging the bait chasing everyone off plus the bait rots from the bottom. Make small piles over a large area and everyones happy with breathing room and they pile in. Another thing about bait, they like it in an area where they can see around them. I don't bait anymore except for maybe keeping a gimme spot ready just in case I want some venison the last few days of december. I did use a couple gallons a day behind my house, but only to control some young ones line of travel so they didn't get shot. Can't beat fresh harvested corn. The acorns would be like deer crack late season. I used to rake up feed sacks of acorns.


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

Bloodrunner said:


> Nice, I haven't tried the dead down wind stuff, but I did try something different this year. I rubbed EverCalm deer herd on my boots before I walked in, and around my ground blinds on the trees. I am a believer. I have been ground hunting the last two years and enjoy the safety and the challenge.
> 
> 
> Clean cloths is really key, I have multiple camo fleece pants and jackets, gloves, hats, and facemasks. That way I always have a fresh set on hand. I refuse to buy Scentlok gear.




The irony and hypocrisy is unbelievable.


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

bucksnbows said:


> The irony and hypocrisy is unbelievable.


Maybe you misunderstood my thoughts on the subject? 


I don't believe in ScentLok, it is all hype, and not worth the money. But I do give the inventers credit as they are excellent business men. 


I do believe in Stand/blind placement for predominate winds, High tree stands, major and minor moon times, conditioning the deer I want to kill, and a few other things.


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## standsetter (Dec 2, 2007)

bucksnbows said:


> I wouldn't expect you to change. Your way works for you, but the way you hunt and the way I hunt are night and day different.
> 
> Let me explain why I keep saying you missed it.
> 
> ...


WOW. Compared to you I have a ways to go when it comes to understanding. It's only recently that I have been able to determine that my butt takes up the same amount of space no matter where I sit.:evil:


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

CHASINEYES said:


> I've seen guys talk how they love their scentlok then hunt in the same boots and hat that they've been wearing day in day out to gas stations, work or wherever the day takes them. Lol


Yes, that is what I was talking about in my OP when I discussed the skeptics. 

Most people try scent control products but do not have an effective scent control program, so they declare the product they are using is a failure even though they are carrying their stinky billfold with them.

I can prove that it is impossible for any brand of driver to hit a golf ball 300 yards.


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

standsetter said:


> WOW. Compared to you I have a ways to go when it comes to understanding. It's only recently that I have been able to determine that my butt takes up the same amount of space no matter where I sit.:evil:


Understanding what? Blood doesn't believe in factual information on how or what many of these products do......but evercalm is the real deal. Ya some guy figured out how to put the smell of a bedding area into a stick of deodorant but activated carbon is a bunch of hype.....you really can't make this stuff up.

At one point we were told all you need is baking soda and rubber boots. 
Now this same person uses......
Evercalm
Trail cams
Thinking about dead down wind.

Gee what's next? tinks 69 and Fox urine.


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

Bloodrunner said:


> Maybe you misunderstood my thoughts on the subject?
> 
> 
> I don't believe in ScentLok, it is all hype, and not worth the money. But I do give the inventers credit as they are excellent business men.
> ...


Why do you wash your clothes in baking soda?
Why do you wear rubber boots? 
What is the purpose of these two things and how does it help you?


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

bucksnbows said:


> Why do you wash your clothes in baking soda?
> Why do you wear rubber boots?
> What is the purpose of these two things and how does it help you?




I love the fresh clean scent of baking soda, and rubber boots keep my feet dry, and rubber is known as good scent control.


To be honest with you, I was only busted twice last season and that was two different does caught me *moving*. I found out deer can see thru that duck camo netting people use to make duck blinds. I fixed that problem.


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

bucksnbows said:


> Understanding what? Blood doesn't believe in factual information on how or what many of these products do......but evercalm is the real deal. Ya some guy figured out how to put the smell of a bedding area into a stick of deodorant but activated carbon is a bunch of hype.....you really can't make this stuff up.
> 
> At one point we were told all you need is baking soda and rubber boots.
> Now this same person uses......
> ...



Killed many bucks using Tinks 69, back in the 80's that was the hottest buck lure money could buy, it drove bucks crazy, but scared the he11 out of does. I think bucks have evolved the last 30 years and estrous lures don't seem to be as effective as they once were.


I like the whole concept of the deer herd stick because it doesn't scare does and makes all deer curious. I used it more as an attractant than a cover scent.


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## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

I get on a liquid chlorophyll program 2 weeks before oct 1st until then end of bow season. IMO the best way to control human scent is internally first and external second.


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## standsetter (Dec 2, 2007)

bucksnbows said:


> Understanding what?


I was just admiring your determination to be understood the way I generally do, by making fun of it. :evil:


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

cakebaker said:


> I get on a liquid chlorophyll program 2 weeks before oct 1st until then end of bow season. IMO the best way to control human scent is internally first and external second.


You might be on to something.

"Liquid chlorophyll balances the alkali levels in the stomach and is said to deodorize the entire body. People who struggle with bad breath may benefit by using chlorophyll as a natural breath freshener. Adding one tablespoon of liquid chlorophyll to ½ cup of water may be used as a mouthwash or gargle."

I see Monster Bucks in your future


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

I love the fresh smell, and it gives me confidence that I will see and kill the deer I want. Maybe it doesn't work at all, I don't care, I have 6 bucks 130+" and dozens of other bucks that fell for my program. 

But then one could argue if I had been using Bio's scent program I might have 20 bucks 130+"? 


Maybe I should re-think this:lol:


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

riverman said:


> and that Bio is why such a small number of hunters put great deer on the ground almost every year. You can build a nirvana, practice the best scent control, have a great location, the list goes on........., but until you actually do the legwork, sit time, and learn how to beat a smart deer at his own game, it's all in vain because the deer will always win. Yes, you can get lucky once in a while. The past four weeks have been awesome to find big bucks, find those buck beds, find those downwind trails, it's been virtually a road map for success next year. How many have taken advantage of it? You want to be good at something, then get your butt out of the chair, you want to be lucky, just keep reading these threads and all the "expert' advice that is given.


Most people are not out there to "put great deer down on the ground..." or ..."beat a smart deer at his own game..." or to..."want to be good at something..."

They just want to see more deer and possibly have the chance to kill one. 

This is part of the thesis presented in my original post. People from a paradigm of high expertise criticize those who do not have the same goals. They are often unable to see the world from the average guy's point of view.

Most hunters are not trying to be an expert.

Most deer hunters are like most golfers. When they walk on the course, they are not expecting to shoot par on the course. They mainly just want to enjoy the game, and perhaps make a par or birdie now and then. In that context, you criticizing a hunter for not putting in their time is like a scratch golfer criticizing an average golfer for not putting in their time on the range, not recognizing that the guy does not want to put in the time. He buys cavity backed clubs to have a bigger sweet spot and does not want to be made fun of by an expert for doing so.


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## RMH (Jan 17, 2009)

Bloodrunner said:


> But then one could argue if I had been using Bio's scent program I might have 20 bucks 130+"?
> 
> Maybe I should re-think this:lol:



That's why your a good hunter!!!


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

As for me, I'd rather _own_ a nirvana, improve my hunting experience through the practice of scent control strategies, and leave the January scouting to guys that aren't working 60 hour weeks this time of year.


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## NovemberWhitetailz (Oct 10, 2008)

I try my best to use extreme scent control. Under garments are washed after every single hunt, I have a separate washer and dryer for my hunting clothes, I get dressed and undressed out side, I use a scent wash starting mid Sept, wipes, sprays yada yada yada and always hunt the wind. Other people hunt our farm and none of them except my older brother(fishmanmark) use any type of scent control....... So what do I do that has worked out the best? I pattern the other hunters on the properties


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## shoelessjoe (Dec 13, 2012)

HUBBHUNTER2 said:


> I try my best to use extreme scent control. Under garments are washed after every single hunt, I have a separate washer and dryer for my hunting clothes, I get dressed and undressed out side, I use a scent wash starting mid Sept, wipes, sprays yada yada yada and always hunt the wind. Other people hunt our farm and none of them except my older brother(fishmanmark) use any type of scent control....... So what do I do that has worked out the best? I pattern the other hunters on the properties


And after all of that, your routine still can't put a trophy class deer in front of you. They have to first exist.


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## NovemberWhitetailz (Oct 10, 2008)

They do around us.... but we also pass on the dinks.


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## NoWake (Feb 7, 2006)

Wow! Let me offer some cliff notes for anyone who doesn't want to read through almost 20 pages.

If you don't follow a very strict scent control regimen, then your not going to see many deer, and if you do see deer they won't be the 'quality' deer that us dedicated, educated, and otherwise 'big time' hunters are after. 

No, no, no..........all that's unnecessary when your an expert woodsman and skilled hunter who hunts real deer in the big woods and not the farm raised hand fed deer from the SLP deer sanctuaries. 

The only thing in common with this and almost every other topic is that *I* am always right. :lol:

Someone needs to come up with ego food and market it towards deer hunters. They would make a fortune. :lol:


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

NoWake said:


> Someone needs to come up with ego food and market it towards deer hunters. They would make a fortune. :lol:


NO! don't feed the ego, find a market for it and pad your pocket like a good middle man


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

NoWake said:


> Wow! Let me offer some cliff notes for anyone who doesn't want to read through almost 20 pages.
> 
> If you don't follow a very strict scent control regimen, then your not going to see many deer, and if you do see deer they won't be the 'quality' deer that us dedicated, educated, and otherwise 'big time' hunters are after.
> 
> ...



You have to give Bio credit, he did start an entertaining thread, and it was interesting seeing different points of view on the subject.

Scent control will always be a hot topic in the Whitetail hunting forums. 

And I believe all hunters that want to be successful at putting a deer on the wall, or just filling the freezer should at least buy a box of Baking Soda.:lol:


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

Bloodrunner said:


> You have to give Bio credit, he did start an entertaining thread, and it was interesting seeing different points of view on the subject.
> 
> Scent control will always be a hot topic in the Whitetail hunting forums.
> 
> And I believe all hunters that want to be successful at putting a deer on the wall, or just filling the freezer should at least buy a box of Baking Soda.:lol:


Looking at the number of views on this thread, Arm and Hammer is probably retooling and adding a second shift as we speak. Lol

Bio had an interesting write up on baking soda and why it can be used to help reduce scent. I've been patiently waiting for the write up on carbon powder.


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## NoWake (Feb 7, 2006)

Bloodrunner said:


> You have to give Bio credit, he did start an entertaining thread, and it was interesting seeing different points of view on the subject.
> 
> Scent control will always be a hot topic in the Whitetail hunting forums.
> 
> And I believe all hunters that want to be successful at putting a deer on the wall, or just filling the freezer should at least buy a box of Baking Soda.:lol:


I think the Bio's OP was very interesting, thought provoking, and quite innocuous. I was just poking fun at some of the tangents the thread went on.:lol:


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

Here is an excerpt from a video on interpreting scent busts. It shows some examples of a Level 2 scent bust, a Level 0 trail bust, and finally a bust that illustrates why even minor scent busts are not a good thing. 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2A-acFbndo&feature=youtu.be"]Interpreting Scent Busts Excerpt 2 - YouTube[/ame]


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