# Snowshoe rabbits



## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

They are turning white saw a couple this weekend. Kinda stick out on bareground


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## reddog1 (Jan 24, 2009)

They starting turning in mid October, I was running them on Drummond Island and their feet, belly and ears were white.


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

I haven't seen a snowshoe in years. In the mid seventies there was a good population around Wellston where my parents had a cottage. One year when we were on Chritmas break all the snow melted and we hunted with .22's and did well.


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## Wolverick (Dec 11, 2008)

Not sure where Wellman is but there haven`t been many hares in the lower for a long, long time. I used to keep beagles just for the Winter hares and don`t bother any more. None of the swamps I used to hunt hold any. Checked other swamps and found the same thing.I see a lot of coyote tracks though, along with some fox. I miss it, hunting them that is. I also used a .22 exclusively. Oh, the good old days.


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## sourdough44 (Mar 2, 2008)

Turning white, that means Winter is coming.


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

sourdough44 said:


> Turning white, that means Winter is coming.


Or some good hunting with a 22


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

plugger said:


> I haven't seen a snowshoe in years. In the mid seventies there was a good population around Wellston where my parents had a cottage. One year when we were on Chritmas break all the snow melted and we hunted with .22's and did well.


State has lost control with predators and has no interest in controlling them... meanwhile every year there is less and less game to hunt .Even in prime areas the predators have taken over .Not only game animals but non game species also .


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

Thirty pointer said:


> State has lost control with predators and has no interest in controlling them... meanwhile every year there is less and less game to hunt .Even in prime areas the predators have taken over .Not only game animals but non game species also .


4 or 5 years ago we had a yote problem here. Snowshoes were coming back good and then the yotes moved in. Then we had a hard winter and most of deer died off. The yotes moved out and rabbits started back. I think this year willbe good but it all depends when the yotes move back. One think now is it is more open and I can shoot from the house with my 270 when they go across the clearcut


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

There is handful of them in my neighborhood. Hopefully that that will increase. I leave them alone....for now

A guy in the next hood north, has been dumping coyote carcasses in the woods that I boarder. He is putting a woopin on them yotes, nice pile!


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## Alex Andrzejewski (Jun 28, 2017)

Thirty pointer said:


> State has lost control with predators and has no interest in controlling them... meanwhile every year there is less and less game to hunt .Even in prime areas the predators have taken over .Not only game animals but non game species also .


Predators aren't the issue, habitat loss combined with shifting climate patterns over the last 35 years has moved most of Michigan, especially the NLP out of the viable range of existence for Snowshoe hare. You mention coyote and fox as predators, which does occur, however the largest predator of Hare is bobcat, lynx, and feral cats. R adapted species, or species that produce more young with less parental care to improve survival, actually survive and reproduce at lower rates in the absence of predators as opposed to there being a predator glut. Our shorter and warmer average winters over that 35 year period juxtaposed to the equal period preceding that has altered the naturally occurring habitat to the point of a shift out of the ecological niche that Hare encompass. Coupled with significantly changing logging habits removing much of the conifer plantation that individuals my fathers and grandfathers age had available, the populations of snowshoes in the NLP and much of the UP will never be as they once were, at least in our lifetime and the lifetime of our children and grandchildren.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Alex Andrzejewski said:


> Predators aren't the issue, habitat loss combined with shifting climate patterns over the last 35 years has moved most of Michigan, especially the NLP out of the viable range of existence for Snowshoe hare. You mention coyote and fox as predators, which does occur, however the largest predator of Hare is bobcat, lynx, and feral cats. R adapted species, or species that produce more young with less parental care to improve survival, actually survive and reproduce at lower rates in the absence of predators as opposed to there being a predator glut. Our shorter and warmer average winters over that 35 year period juxtaposed to the equal period preceding that has altered the naturally occurring habitat to the point of a shift out of the ecological niche that Hare encompass. Coupled with significantly changing logging habits removing much of the conifer plantation that individuals my fathers and grandfathers age had available, the populations of snowshoes in the NLP and much of the UP will never be as they once were, at least in our lifetime and the lifetime of our children and grandchildren.


I agree, as far as the climate. Habitat has changed, but not real drastic. 

What I am seeing is the climate zones becoming far less pronounced, as well as the seasons more blended.

But hey....we got possums now!!


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

Come on guys so called climate change would not affect most of the species that are disappearing .They are being eaten up .Found a nest of newborn rabbits last spring the next day a raccoon ate all but one and it was dead .Eggs just do not survive and populations have thinned to the point no breeding happens in many areas .


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Thirty pointer said:


> Come on guys so called climate change would not affect most of the species that are disappearing .They are being eaten up .Found a nest of newborn rabbits last spring the next day a raccoon ate all but one and it was dead .Eggs just do not survive and populations have thinned to the point no breeding happens in many areas .


I don't think it's man made climate change, just a natural cycle. 

For instance more reports of bear and Porky's in the lower, possums showing up to the north. Changes in snow quantity, thickness in ice on the lakes.

It seems like the seasons in the 3 zones of Michigan have kinda blended together.


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## cdacker (Jan 10, 2011)

Alex Andrzejewski said:


> Predators aren't the issue, habitat loss combined with shifting climate patterns over the last 35 years has moved most of Michigan, especially the NLP out of the viable range of existence for Snowshoe hare. You mention coyote and fox as predators, which does occur, however the largest predator of Hare is bobcat, lynx, and feral cats. R adapted species, or species that produce more young with less parental care to improve survival, actually survive and reproduce at lower rates in the absence of predators as opposed to there being a predator glut. Our shorter and warmer average winters over that 35 year period juxtaposed to the equal period preceding that has altered the naturally occurring habitat to the point of a shift out of the ecological niche that Hare encompass. Coupled with significantly changing logging habits removing much of the conifer plantation that individuals my fathers and grandfathers age had available, the populations of snowshoes in the NLP and much of the UP will never be as they once were, at least in our lifetime and the lifetime of our children and grandchildren.


Sounds depressing!
However, there are still plenty of hare around if you are willing to put boots on the ground and know where to look.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

cdacker said:


> Sounds depressing!
> However, there are still plenty of hare around if you are willing to put boots on the ground and know where to look.


Interesting!

All of my usual haunts were void of hare as of a few years back. These areas were loaded for decades that I know of. 

Might have to revisit those spots! Encouraging! The habitat we hunted has not changed. They're not pheasants in farm country. It's all swamps and other low lying cedar thickets in the Mid to LNP (east)

Thanks!


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## Wolverick (Dec 11, 2008)

Alex, I used to believe that too, but logically if the climate changing was the reason for the lack of hares then the cottontails should have increased and filled the void. Around here they remain scarce, except right around peoples houses. Now if predators were not the problem cottontails would be all over, not just in people`s yards. 

When the hare population crashed it happened seemingly overnight. It was right after the fur boom ended. I thought at the time the hares were just cycling to a low and would rebound. That was in the early 1990s. It never happened. 

Building habitat will help but unless the predator problem is dealt with the hares will remain scarce. I`m not of the mind the coyotes are single handedly responsible. We have so many hawks and owls now that they are a factor as well. Right along with the foxes and everything else that kills rabbits. We need a balanced approach.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

The cottontail have filled the void plus a bunch here


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Where ever Majinabesh is....lol


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## Alex Andrzejewski (Jun 28, 2017)

Wolverick said:


> Alex, I used to believe that too, but logically if the climate changing was the reason for the lack of hares then the cottontails should have increased and filled the void. Around here they remain scarce, except right around peoples houses. Now if predators were not the problem cottontails would be all over, not just in people`s yards.
> 
> When the hare population crashed it happened seemingly overnight. It was right after the fur boom ended. I thought at the time the hares were just cycling to a low and would rebound. That was in the early 1990s. It never happened.
> 
> Building habitat will help but unless the predator problem is dealt with the hares will remain scarce. I`m not of the mind the coyotes are single handedly responsible. We have so many hawks and owls now that they are a factor as well. Right along with the foxes and everything else that kills rabbits. We need a balanced approach.


Climate change isn't the direct effector of the loss of hare. The lack of snow and seasonal variation isn't whats causing the overall population decrease, same as predation. However, the shifting patterns of season and climate directly effect habitat, and loss of habitat is the #1 reason species overall population numbers decrease at rates greater than a standard deviation from the expected cycles induced by a number of factors including predator populations and unique weather patterns and climate circumstance. To say that predators are the driving reason there are fewer and fewer snowshoes is ludicrous. Also, using cottontail rabbits as a comparative species creates a umbrella hypothesis. Umbrella hypotheses use a singular idea that when examined is plausible, yet however utilizes evidence to support itself that is never testable nor supported under any circumstance other than that for which you wish it to stand as evidence. Hare are a precocious species, meaning their young are born self-reliant and the mother doesn't care for them. Rabbits are the opposite, and as you know are born naked and blind. Because of this rabbits require burrows where as hare do not. Cotton tail require far less habitat and exist around farms and homes because of the cover available, i.e. in burrows under old barns, bramble piles, ect. Hare however require substantial habitat to make their living and feed on an entirely different subset of foods to exist. When this habitat is reduced over large periods of time hare do not have the reproductive and young raising adaptations that rabbits do, and therefore their populations decrease disproportionately in comparison to a seemingly similar species in varieties of rabbits that when truly examined, only shares a few similarities.


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## Wolverick (Dec 11, 2008)

What hare and rabbits share is habitat. Or at least they always did when I would hunt them. Many of the places I used to hunt are unchanged due to habitat type. A tag elder swamp remains a T.A. swamp. Only devoid of either species where there used to be both. I maintain rabbits do well near peoples homes because the predators are reluctant to venture too close. Move those animals into a more wild setting and they too are toast. 

Clearly there is a lot at play here but to say the predators are not a huge factor is to disregard the obvious.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Shoeman said:


> Where ever Majinabesh is....lol


It was the native name for Higgins Lake. Translates roughly to "sparkling waters".

As far as hares 30 years ago we had a bunch. Since then there have always been a few, mostly in the cedar swamp or close.

Right now not many coyotes, so lots of rabbit's.....for now.


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

They have been here all along just not in big numbers. A few years ago I went back after deer season and was going to try and get couple. Every rabbit track I came on had several coyote track right behind it and a short ways there was a pile of fur. We use to hunt them in the cedar swamps but then the DNR cut the swamps off for habit improvement the rabbits disappered. They never came back the same as the cedar swamp. We use to hunt a pine tree farm and the rabbits left there also and last I know very few are in there now. They should be in mine here good this year if I can keep control of the coyotes as the rabbits like the new growth where I had cut this spring. I had one cotton tail by my buildings but I think our local owl got him


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## jps (Jan 6, 2005)

Climate change resulted in later snow cover and more snow melts through the winter.

White hares stick out like a sore thumb if there is no snow in the winter. It's easier for us to see them, but it's also easier for non human predators to spot them.

As global warming continues the trend will be for them to disappear from their southern range. Slowly but surely, we will have to travel increasingly north to see them. The odd year, with better conditions may result in increased survival into the next year... but their overall trend is tied to that of a climate thar will get warmer.

Let's enjoy them while we can.


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

Okay climate and loss of habitat people people why did pheasants .Partridge ,woodcock .box turtles ,many snake species ,many ground nesting birds ,frogs and many more become rare or gone from many areas ?


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## reddog1 (Jan 24, 2009)

http://www.michigan.gov/som/0,4669,7-192-45414-377006--,00.html
This is a good read. The DNR making an effort to improve Hare habitat in Crawford County


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

reddog1 said:


> http://www.michigan.gov/som/0,4669,7-192-45414-377006--,00.html
> This is a good read. The DNR making an effort to improve Hare habitat in Crawford County


It will be good for predators also so if the predators stay in numbers its all wasted .


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

reddog1 said:


> http://www.michigan.gov/som/0,4669,7-192-45414-377006--,00.html
> This is a good read. The DNR making an effort to improve Hare habitat in Crawford County


Interesting, maybe they would do that a bit south


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## reddog1 (Jan 24, 2009)

I disagree, everyone is either blaming climate change or predators. What about the out of state hunters or hunters in general who kill every hare they see. 
I'm not against killing hare, I kill a few every year at my hare camp but when out of state hunters come to the Island and kill 52 hare in 11 days it seems a bit sensless. I hunt mostly private land and I only shoot 4 hare a year at the most. Year after year I run the same spots and never have trouble finding hare. Wolves, Coyotes, And lynx are also in these same areas. And this year for the first 4 days the temps were in the mid 70's. A little warm for late October.


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

Out of state hunters cannot get to most of the areas here as they are private and if they do go on state land they don't go deep enough to get to them. One of the biggest predators on them is owls. I use to see in the snow where they got them. This is where the christmas tree fields are ideal for them as they are under the limbs 90% of the time


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Interesting, I didn't realize hare hunting was a big deal. Just knew there wasn't many left in my area, so I leave them alone. Nobody really ever talks or ask's about them.

That's pretty much how I treat any species of fish or critter that seems to be down.


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## Wolverick (Dec 11, 2008)

Thirty Pointer, I know in the case of Wood Turtles there was a study done in the U.P. The biologist reported every nest in his study area was destroyed by............raccoons. If memory serves me that was a 2015 study.

Scout 2, I used to see the same thing. Owls swooping in and killing a hare all written in the snow.


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## reddog1 (Jan 24, 2009)

On Drummond Island out of State hunters do kill the majority of Hare taken durning the season. I might be a bit bias because I enloy just running hare and enjoying the houndsman I invite to my cottage during my annual hare camp but the same guys that kill as many hare as they can so they can post pictures of tailgates full of hare are the same guys that B***h that their prime spots have no hare the following year. I also hint alot of state land but I am willing to go deep into the swamps to get good running.


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

Wolverick said:


> Thirty Pointer, I know in the case of Wood Turtles there was a study done in the U.P. The biologist reported every nest in his study area was destroyed by............raccoons. If memory serves me that was a 2015 study.
> 
> Scout 2, I used to see the same thing. Owls swooping in and killing a hare all written in the snow.


You are correct they are placing box turtles in predator proof pens .They have become so rare in many areas that breeding does not occur despite plenty of habitat .


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## Alex Andrzejewski (Jun 28, 2017)

Wolverick said:


> Thirty Pointer, I know in the case of Wood Turtles there was a study done in the U.P. The biologist reported every nest in his study area was destroyed by............raccoons. If memory serves me that was a 2015 study.
> 
> Scout 2, I used to see the same thing. Owls swooping in and killing a hare all written in the snow.


Raccoons might be getting all sorts of young, robbing nests and such. However snowshoe have precocious young, they are born fully furred and able to fend for themselves. Predators and raptors are awful, but most don't affect hare populations in statistically significant ways. Owls and hawks probably kill thousands of times more snowshoes than ***** and fox and coyotes ever will.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

swampbuck said:


> It was the native name for Higgins Lake. Translates roughly to "sparkling waters".
> 
> As far as hares 30 years ago we had a bunch. Since then there have always been a few, mostly in the cedar swamp or close.
> 
> Right now not many coyotes, so lots of rabbit's.....for now.


Got it, thanks!

Thought it might be something Dearborn....


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