# Question for the COs



## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

As the LPDMI travels the lower peninsula doing our Public Information Meetings, the question about fines and jail time have repeatedly come up from a couple of different organized groups against APRs.
The question comes up in this form _"LP DMI...why don't you let us all know how big the fine will be and how much jail time and length of time hunting privelages will be lost, if someone shoots a sublegal APR buck"._
Of course the LP DMI doesn't make those determinations, it's the law division that decides if there's been a violation and the courts that determine the penalty, if any.
My question to the COs is this. On a first time honest mistake in the taking of a protected deer, how many times has a hunter spent even one night in jail, paid a $1,000.00 fine, or lost a single day of hunting privelages?
Also, how often do honest mistakes take place by hunters trying to fill their restricted (4 pt) combo tag?

Thanks in advance!

T


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## bowhunter42 (Aug 22, 2012)

A slap on the wrist if that.. Michigan is too easy on the violators. Taking a buck protected by aprs need to be enforced, be it by mistake or intentional. 
Honest mistakes are still broken laws.
Lock em up and throw away the key!

Sent from my DROIDX using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

With the right amendment to the proposal, there would be no need to involve a CO. 
I'm also interested how many, if anyone, has ever received a ticket for shooting a buck with 4 pts. of a side using the restricted tag and at least 1 tine was less than 1". Even less than 1/2". It's done quite often.
The rule seems to be......If you can see 4 pts. from 20' away.......close enough.

L & O


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Totality of circumstances. There is no right way to answer that question in a public forum (that covers all instances) other than to tell what the actual penalty could be.


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## fanrwing (Jul 31, 2010)

bowhunter42 said:


> A slap on the wrist if that.. Michigan is too easy on the violators. Taking a buck protected by aprs need to be enforced, be it by mistake or intentional.
> Honest mistakes are still broken laws.
> Lock em up and throw away the key!
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Ohub Campfire mobile app


 
One of the many reasons I'm against APRs. Guys are going to shoot what they think is a 6 pt only to find its a 4 pt. Others will shoot what they think is a doe only to find its a spike. Others will be frustrated when they have to let a big buck walk because they couldn't get a good enough look to count the points. A year from now a lot of guys who now favor APRs will regret it.

Most COs are good guys doing a tough job for too little pay but there are a few jerks out there who are stocking up on pens waiting to bust guys making a mistake.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

QDMAMAN said:


> My question to the COs is this. * On a first time honest mistake in the taking of a protected deer, how many times has a hunter spent even one night in jail, paid a $1,000.00 fine, or lost a single day of hunting privelages?*
> Also, how often do honest mistakes take place by hunters trying to fill their restricted (4 pt) combo tag?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> ...





dead short said:


> Totality of circumstances. There is no right way to answer that question in a public forum (that covers all instances) other than to tell what the actual penalty could be.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


dead short, are you aware of _anyone_ spending even (1) night in jail, paying $1,000.00 in penalties, or loosing 3 years of hunting privelages over an honest mistake?
I read the CO field reports from time to time in the fall. While I'll admit that it's only the violations that are in those reports, not the penalties, I seldom, if ever, see reports where a ticket is issued for honestly mistaking a protected deer. Is it more common (citations) than I am lead to believe?

Thanks!
T


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

QDMAMAN said:


> dead short, are you aware of _anyone_ spending even (1) night in jail, paying $1,000.00 in penalties, or loosing 3 years of hunting privelages over an honest mistake?


How many in a year? There is no actual way to determine that other than look at actual illegal deer case numbers as they are not separated out and most will try to convince you that it was an accident anyway. (Pertaining to an "honest mistake") 

When someone is charged and convicted of taking a deer illegally, the fine is what the fine is. What exactly is an honest mistake? That is somewhat like a person admitting to causing a "preventable car accident", they are still responsible. Do I know of people that have taken a 3x3 six point and swore it was a 4x3? Yes, and if they are charged and ultimately convicted of an illegal deer the fine is set in statute. If they are able to deal with the prosecutor that is a whole separate issue. In my county the court is very strict with the five days in jail and rarely waivers. If someone is convicted, they are very likely going to do five days (per statute), have licenses revoked (per statute), and will pay the extra $1,000 (per statute). 

People just need to understand that even if they make an "honest mistake", there is a possibility (sometimes likely) of being charged with a crime. The possibility needs not be diminished or why bother with a regulation? I don't see it as a scare tactic (as some do), it just is what it is. 




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## Greenbush future (Sep 8, 2005)

NPR just reported yesterday about the severity of *all criminal convictions* in Michigan being at the very top compared to other states. We incarcerate more, and hand out much stiffer sentences, that's a fact. Not sure how much this impacts poaching or APR specific convictions but I will bet we are above average there too. Just because you don't read about it doesn't mean it isn't happening.


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