# cwd/gut piles



## nadarasday (Feb 18, 2006)

ok, so what are we suppose to do with are gut piles? if burying them is not a good idea, is burning them an option, our is this cwd an airborne disease? are we suppose to place them in the trash and send them to the landfills?


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

Despite the fact that it's been indicated that decomposing carcasses of infected deer are likely a vector for Prion shedding & transmission, (Miller & Wiliams), our DNR, in their infinite wisdom, have determined that gut piles within the hot zone do not constitute any great degree of risk. But if you have a dozen apples on the ground 150 miles away from the hot zone and a deer gets near them, watch out, the spread of disease will be rampant! :lol:

But then again, Dr. Schmitt has stated that nose to nose contact between captive cervids and wild deer through the fence, is unlikely to transmit the disease, yet nose to nose contact between wild deer over bait poses an extreme risk. Does anyone else sense a pattern here?


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## bgbk-8 (Sep 2, 2008)

Munsterlndr said:


> Despite the fact that it's been indicated that decomposing carcasses of infected deer are likely a vector for Prion shedding & transmission, (Miller & Wiliams), our DNR, in their infinite wisdom, have determined that gut piles within the hot zone do not constitute any great degree of risk. But if you have a dozen apples on the ground 150 miles away from the hot zone and a deer gets near them, watch out, the spread of disease will be rampant! :lol:
> 
> But then again, Dr. Schmitt has stated that nose to nose contact between captive cervids and wild deer through the fence, is unlikely to transmit the disease, yet nose to nose contact between wild deer over bait poses an extreme risk. Does anyone else sense a pattern here?


How can gut piles not be a risk? Feces is suppose to be one of the most rampant means of transmission yet when you clean a deer most of it and the stomach contents stay exposed in the environment. I personally think we should bag up our gut piles and send them to the DNR/NRC for examination. I think while I'm at it I'll bag up all the deer feces I can find and send it along so they can examine it as well. 

Yes, the pattern here is a vendetta against baiting but not using common sense in most other areas. This was a convenient way to hatchet those who used bait.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

Given that 20 deer won't swarm on the gut pile and eat every last bit, like they do with bait, there's little threat.

There'd have to be CWD in that pile, then it'd have to get into the soil, then a deer would have to dig in the soil at that very location and consume CWD dirt.
That is very different from above ground bait with the certainty that deer will swarm onto it and cross contaminate lots of feces and saliva. 
It's above ground sources that get extremely heavy use that's the bigger concern, not in-ground lighter used sources.


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## bgbk-8 (Sep 2, 2008)

Pinefarm said:


> Given that 20 deer won't swarm on the gut pile and eat every last bit, like they do with bait, there's little threat.


No now they just swarm acorns, water holes, natural apples and bait plots. Leaving infected gut piles behind still OK? With the windfall of an added $20 million to the DNR budget with the finding of one deer with CWD you'd think they could create a special position for picking this stuff up. Any names for the specially created position come to mind?


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## kristie (Apr 23, 2003)

I personally put gut piles from any deer I kill, bagged, in a licensed landfill. Anyone who is concerned may feel free to do the same.
Kristie


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## oldrank (Dec 5, 2006)

There is no CWD in our wild deer herd........gut piles pose zero threat........baitpiles are zero threat.......black top, rubber wheels and 10 foot fences pose the biggest threat......and guys spreading the " end of the world " lies about CWD


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## averageguy (Jan 1, 2008)

oldrank said:


> There is no CWD in our wild deer herd........gut piles pose zero threat........baitpiles are zero threat.......black top, rubber wheels and 10 foot fences pose the biggest threat......and guys spreading the " end of the world " lies about CWD


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

Pinefarm said:


> Given that 20 deer won't swarm on the gut pile and eat every last bit, like they do with bait, there's little threat.
> 
> There'd have to be CWD in that pile, then it'd have to get into the soil, then a deer would have to dig in the soil at that very location and consume CWD dirt.
> That is very different from above ground bait with the certainty that deer will swarm onto it and cross contaminate lots of feces and saliva.
> It's above ground sources that get extremely heavy use that's the bigger concern, not in-ground lighter used sources.


Nice shot from the hip Bob but maybe you should read the science behind it before you offer your unsupported opinions. Miller's study found that the decomposing animal products caused a bloom of vegetation on the spot where the carcass had been, they essentially acted as fertilizer, which in turn attracted deer, who then consumed the vegetation and the soil where the Prions had been shed in the spot where the decomposing material had lain, so there is every indication that decomposing animal carcasses, including gut piles, provide an excellent vector for the transmission of CWD. That's coming from your hero Dr. Miller. 

It's pretty hilarious how you try to argue that only bait presents a potential vector while trying to minimize any other potential means of spreading the disease. Get real! :lol:


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## fairfax1 (Jun 12, 2003)

A poster above observes: _"With the windfall of an added $20 million to the DNR budget with the finding of one deer with CWD..............."_

Sherpa me on this: what $20 million? 

And, is there any increased costs to the DNR for addressing the CWD issue?

And, why would they have a vendetta? What could be their motive?

Why would the DNR and/or the NRC even want to _"hatchet those who use bait"?_

I don't understand what the motives of the DNR would be to rile up a certain faction within the hunting community. What is there to gain?


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## hunterdude772 (Oct 26, 2008)

fairfax1 said:


> A poster above observes: _"With the windfall of an added $20 million to the DNR budget with the finding of one deer with CWD..............."_
> 
> Sherpa me on this: what $20 million?
> 
> ...


That is exactly what we all are asking.

Considering the following facts:
No CWD in the free ranging herd
Baiting not proven to an effect on CWD (no more than food plots certainly)

Using those facts why don't you tell us why the ban. What is their motivation?

I want to be careful not to ask too difficult questions so I don't get censored again. (read last page of Lets look at proposal G)


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## bgbk-8 (Sep 2, 2008)

fairfax1 said:


> A poster above observes: _"With the windfall of an added $20 million to the DNR budget with the finding of one deer with CWD..............."_
> 
> Sherpa me on this: what $20 million?
> 
> ...


Not directly related to CWD but a "mystery" $20 million windfall:

Headline
"Michigan DNR&#8217;s Miracle Christmas! They Found $20 Million"
Link
http://michiganhuntingtoday.com/blog...nd-20-million/


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## fairfax1 (Jun 12, 2003)

OK, I understand. 

Your original post: "_With the windfall of an added $20 million to the DNR budget with the finding of one deer with CWD..." _ reads as if their is a link between the $20mm and the discovery of CWD.

Your next post retracts that link. 

OK, I'm cool, you're cool.


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## bgbk-8 (Sep 2, 2008)

Yes, NOT directly related. 

It helps when I actually go read the article (link) that someone else posted. The comments at the posting at the other site was somewhat misleading.


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## traditional (Mar 14, 2007)

oldrank said:


> There is no CWD in our wild deer herd........gut piles pose zero threat........baitpiles are zero threat.......black top, rubber wheels and 10 foot fences pose the biggest threat......and guys spreading the " end of the world " lies about CWD


 You hit the nail on the head oldrank.


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## nadarasday (Feb 18, 2006)

oldrank said:


> There is no CWD in our wild deer herd........gut piles pose zero threat........baitpiles are zero threat.......black top, rubber wheels and 10 foot fences pose the biggest threat......and guys spreading the " end of the world " lies about CWD


 i hear you, seems like a smoking gun, i agree wild herd has not seen any proof of cwd. my question is, can you burn a gut pile or would become airborne if there was cwd present, i live where i hunt, and the people next door have sheep, which are at risk, from what i've read.


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## terry (Sep 13, 2002)

nadarasday said:


> i hear you, seems like a smoking gun, i agree wild herd has not seen any proof of cwd. my question is, can you burn a gut pile or would become airborne if there was cwd present, i live where i hunt, and the people next door have sheep, which are at risk, from what i've read.



my opinion, i believe incineration would be better than burial, but incineration would have to be done properly, or your just barbecuing for the animals. 

also, what about different strains of CWD, and one being more virulent than the other, or others?



Sunday, November 16, 2008

Resistance of Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE) Prions to Inactivation 

http://bse-atypical.blogspot.com/2008/11/resistance-of-bovine-spongiform.html



kind regards,
terry


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## Gina Fox (Nov 4, 2007)

Appears to me that the DNR might be 'infested' with folks that lean toward the animal rights factions. While CWD is an area of concern and something that they certainly should be diligent about, it seems to me that they went from 0 to 90 in one test result. Realistically they should have banned baiting in the area where the infected deer was found...being that it was captive, limited to that county. 
Obviously they have wanted to discontinnue the practice and used CWD as a handy excuse. 
I agree that some guys have abused the baiting thing. Dumping whole truckloads of bait seems to me to be unsportsman like. I am thinking we will be planting some apple trees on our property and other forage they like. 

I can't imagine that they would outlaw that...would they???


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## symen696 (Nov 7, 2006)

Take all you gut piles to lansing and dump them on the capitals lawn...:lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Surf and Turf (Mar 26, 2008)

I have read many posts regarding this cwd subject. Very interesting on how some of you still think that the dnr really cares about our states wildlife. I have hunted and fished in this state for 35 years and have seen lots of changes and learned alot of things on deer just buy observation. We hear how the dnr needs our cooperation to fight this disease that doesn't even exsist in our wild deer herd at this point. I could go on and on about all the things that disgust me about this branch of state government, but I only have one point to bring up. Being a truck driver, I see anywhere from 3 to 5 deer a day along the road that have been hit by vehicles. 15 to 20 a week. Not one time have I ever seen a DNR vehicle pick up one of these carcasses. They want to test as many deer as posible for diseases why not some of these deer. They want all the say as to how they are hunted, but when it comes putting up some effert on thier part, the deer are not thier problem. They are not liable for any damage from the deer, but they reap all the profits. Wake up sportsmen, hunters, and wildlife observers, we are all getting scammed.


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## dwarneroutdoorswriter (Apr 17, 2008)

My suggestion is to take the entrails to a DNR check station and give it to them. Tell them you are so concerned about inadvertently spreading CWD that you think it's best if they test the guts as well.


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