# Why do Muzzleloaders leave poor blood trails?



## chuckinduck (May 28, 2003)

I've read a lot of posts on here this year about people shooting bucks/does and the poor blood trails they've left. I can also offer evidence of the same issue with many of the deer I've shot with my Muzzleloader. I've killed probably 5 or 6 deer with muzzleloader, a Remington Model 700 w/ Nikon scope. Its a real tackdriver, but blood trails have always been average at ebst. I've dropped two deer right on the spot, and I've retrieved the rest after 30-80yds, mostly all lung hit deer. I shouldn't complain about finding deer, but the lack of blood does leave me puzzled. Does it have something to do with loose powder and the temperature at which the powder burns? Or is it some other ballistical force and the energy the bullets carry down range? It doesn't seem to be bullet specific, I've shot the Hornady XTP's and SST's, I know guys who have shot powerbelts, shockwaves, etc, and lots of people talk of poor blood trails. Is there a good explanation to this ongoing issue?


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## CMR (Jul 25, 2003)

Get your self a .58 cal MZ, load it up with a 525gr Great Plains conical and don't worry about lack of a blood trail.


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## huntallday (Nov 26, 2007)

That is a good question. I have tried many combinations and have had similar results - poor blood trail. Presently I am pushing Barnes Expanders with 100 T7. I went with the Barnes because they are supposedly good for pass throughs. Well, last night I shat at a doe and never found her. I might have missed but a blood trail sure would have been nice. I look forward to someone with the knowledge to shed some light.


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## chuckinduck (May 28, 2003)

huntallday said:


> That is a good question. I have tried many combinations and have had similar results - poor blood trail. Presently I am pushing Barnes Expanders with 100 T7. I went with the Barnes because they are supposedly good for pass throughs. Well, last night I shat at a doe and never found her. I might have missed but a blood trail sure would have been nice. I look forward to someone with the knowledge to shed some light.


My brother put down what he thought was a previously wounded deer last weekend. It didn't bleed til the final ten yards, and even that was just a sparse spray. From examing the shoulder, you couldn't even find an entrance or exit hole, but upon looking in the cavity, you could see his shot was a perfect hit right behind the shoulder. Had that been a rifle/shotgun, the blood trail could've been followed by a blind man.


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## bersh (Dec 9, 2003)

huntallday said:


> That is a good question. I have tried many combinations and have had similar results - poor blood trail. Presently I am pushing Barnes Expanders with 100 T7. I went with the Barnes because they are supposedly good for pass throughs. Well, last night I shat at a doe and never found her. I might have missed but a blood trail sure would have been nice. I look forward to someone with the knowledge to shed some light.


I've farted in the general direction of deer before, but never shat at them.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

CMR,
I use a .58, but with roundballs. Needless to say, bloodtrails have been good so far. 

Although, I double lunged a doe with it last year and she went a very long way. Probably 200 yards. But, even with that distance, the blood trail was like a crime scene. I couldn't believe she went that far. But that's probably due to a round ball vs a jacketed bullet. 

My .58 twist is for round balls, not big conicals.


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

chuckinduck said:


> I've read a lot of posts on here this year about people shooting bucks/does and the poor blood trails they've left. I can also offer evidence of the same issue with many of the deer I've shot with my Muzzleloader. I've killed probably 5 or 6 deer with muzzleloader, a Remington Model 700 w/ Nikon scope. Its a real tackdriver, but blood trails have always been average at ebst. I've dropped two deer right on the spot, and I've retrieved the rest after 30-80yds, mostly all lung hit deer. I shouldn't complain about finding deer, but the lack of blood does leave me puzzled. Does it have something to do with loose powder and the temperature at which the powder burns? Or is it some other ballistical force and the energy the bullets carry down range? It doesn't seem to be bullet specific, I've shot the Hornady XTP's and SST's, I know guys who have shot powerbelts, shockwaves, etc, and lots of people talk of poor blood trails. Is there a good explanation to this ongoing issue?


You pose a great question. My 12 year old son has killed four deer in the past three weeks with Schockwave bullets, all were textbook shot placement, but none left a good blood trail in comparison to what we get with a shotgun slug, and with three of the deer the blood trail was nonexistent. I've now switched back to Barnes Hollow points, as these are the only ones I've used over the years where I've really been pleased with the bullet expansion and blood trail resulting from good shots. As a matter of fact I'm now questioning why I ever moved away from them.


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## D-BEAVER (Jan 8, 2008)

Bigger bullets with slower expansion traveling at slower velocities, that's why.


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## BallsRdragn (Jul 21, 2005)

I use the 240gr SST Hornady's. Blood trail's were awesome, so far 3 for 3. I have not experienced a bad trail yet.

Ben


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## jdub (Feb 27, 2007)

Seems you just don't get the same kind of expansion out of a muzzleloading sabot as you do a shotgun slug. I double lunged a doe this year in the snow. Only tiny specs for 30 or 40 yards, then it started spraying but it still wasn't the kind of blood trail i get with my 12 gauge.


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

jdub said:


> Seems you just don't get the same kind of expansion out of a muzzleloading sabot as you do a shotgun slug.


I agree. That's been our experience as well.


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## CMR (Jul 25, 2003)

Pinefarm said:


> CMR,
> I use a .58, but with roundballs. Needless to say, bloodtrails have been good so far.
> 
> Although, I double lunged a doe with it last year and she went a very long way. Probably 200 yards. But, even with that distance, the blood trail was like a crime scene. I couldn't believe she went that far. But that's probably due to a round ball vs a jacketed bullet.
> ...


I got a T/C System 1 inline using musket caps, the musket cap flame thrower nipple, 95gr of loose 777 powder, and the 525gr Great Plains. 
Talk about a WHOPPER!!!

(Gonna use it on my Russian Boar hunt in Jan..look for pics and story after the hunt)


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## Chip (Jun 6, 2005)

You know, that is an interesting point...I've shot deer both with Maxi Hunter 300 gr and round ball and have only had one fairly good blood trail out of five deer hit. Two dropped on the spot- one with each kind of bullet. One was a poor hit (brother's first ever shot at a deer, hit brisket) and was not recovered. The first deer I ever shot with my Hawkens was hit with the Maxi Hunter in the liver and lungs- that produced a very big wound channel, good blood and about a 100yd or less tracking job. The last deer I killed with my ML was hit in the shoulder and lungs with the round ball. The deer was quartering toward me at about 10-15 yds- the bullet flattened and was recovered just under the skin on the opposite side of the hit and at the back of the lungs. It ran about 50 yds and didn't seem to leave any blood. 

It seems that in the cases I've shot deer in the vitals with the ML there just hasn't been much time between the hit and when they died- that reduces the amount of blood. Also, the force the bullet hits with is less than that produced by the 1 oz slugs and center fire bullets I've also shot deer with. In addition, depending on the temp and amount of moisture the powder has been exposed to, it may further reduce a ML's accuracy and the force produced. The guy that helped my Dad and I up at Duncan's said that powder and pellets will not burn the same after three days once out of the sealed container- being handled, breathed on, humidity in the air, condensation from daily temp changes, etc. will impact accuracy. He recommended taking out your speed loads for the weekend of hunting, then setting those aside for target practice and using fresh pellets or powder the next weekend. He said that vaccum sealing the container would preserve the bulk of your powder indefinately. 

Finally, good ole human error and Murphy's Law play a huge part in ML hunting. I've had caps fail to snap because they weren't seated deep enough on the nipple (lesson= don't dry fire practice and burr the nipple). Powder will get wet from condensation when the day and night temps were different. Or maybe my body heat impacted the barrel resting over my lap. Hang fires are a concern, especially on a second shot several hours after reloading. A nipple that wasn't totally screwed in blew out and I lost hearing in my left ear for about two weeks. Not to mention developing a sweet accuracy robbing flinch that took a lot of shooting to get over. Snow or rain can get in a barrel. Any little twitch in that split second from ignition to bullet exit from barrel can make an impact. 

A muzzle loader is also more work- you have to take care of your powder, primers, follow your loading, fouling, firing and cleaning procedure consistently and correctly every time. People tend to be lazy and like to save resources- then they make a shot and pay the consequences. Sometimes a faulty primer, failing to mark your ramrod properly, zeroing in during conditions different than those present during the hunt, or simply setting your weapon in the trunk for the ride home can end up costing you at the moment of truth. Hopefully, reading about things like this will save some people the painful lessons of watching a deer walk away unscathed, or worse, wounded. I know I'd be interested in hearing other ideas people have.

Take care

Chip


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## Uncle Boopoo (Sep 15, 2008)

D-BEAVER said:


> Bigger bullets with slower expansion traveling at slower velocities, that's why.


 
I agree. A bullet with less energy wont do as much damage as a bullet with more energy. 

Seems like most ML guys shoot 100 grains of powder. I wonder if the guys shooting 150 grains have better luck with blood trails?


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## Raf (Jan 23, 2006)

bersh said:


> I've farted in the general direction of deer before, but never shat at them.


man this had me rolling on the ground:lol:


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## boomer_x7 (Dec 19, 2008)

also take in to consideration many hunters are hunting from raized platforms these days. If there is no exit hole, the wound is bleeding up instead of out.


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## P.R.S.F. (Jul 2, 2008)

Chip said:


> failing to mark your ramrod properly,
> 
> Take care
> 
> Chip


 
Mine is not marked I shot at a doe last saturday and the gun did'nt fire just the cap she ran off into the woods.I pulled out the ram rod and pushed the load about 1/4 to 1/2 inch.:rant: :rant: :rant:


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## OSXer (Jul 12, 2005)

I'm surprised to see this post. I shoot .45 cal Hornady HV sabots out of my .50 and have had excellent success with deer not making it far and leaving a nice blood trail.

Now my slug gun on the other hand, an H&R with 2.75" lightfields has left much to be desired often times.


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

I've been hunting with a muzzleloader for around 20 years, started off with a .54 Hawken shooting round balls and have moved on to two in-lines, one a .54 TC Thunderhawk and most recently a .50 Encore. I've probably harvested 15 or so deer with Muzzy's and the only one that did not have a good blood trail was the Encore with powerbelts. Since switching to 300 Gr. Shockwaves over 150 grains of T7 I have harvested 3 deer and all were complete pass through's with good blood trails. Question for those who are having problems with blood trails and who are not using Powerbelts (the problems with those have already been discussed ad nauseum), are most of the problems occurring during the muzzleloading season or do you also have problems during the regular firearms season when using a muzzleloader? I'm wondering if part of the problem is thicker layers of suet that may be present during the later season that can easily plug up an exit wound if the bullet does not expand very much. Just a thought, like I have said, after dumping powerbelts, expansion & penetration have not been a problem. I should also note that most of the shots that I take with a muzzleloader tend to be pretty short range (<65 yards.)


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## sdean04 (Jan 7, 2008)

i use 150 gr of 777 pellets and a 250 gr shockwave bullet. every deer shot this year wer over 100 yards all pass through.
and good blood trails


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## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

I hit a doe at 30 yards with a 300 grain Barnes Expander MZ and it looked like a slasher film! She ran 50 yards spraying blood out both sides of her. I love those hollowpoints!


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## SCOOTER3148 (Jan 7, 2007)

I also use 240gr SST Hornady's shot a deer 2 nights ago just after that last fresh snow. Was hunting up in a tree about 20 feet up shot the deer at about 45 yards i could see the blood trail from my tree stand deer went about 75 yards no problem seeing blood trail. Cut the heart in half .


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## sport72186 (Dec 20, 2007)

Uncle Boopoo said:


> I agree. A bullet with less energy wont do as much damage as a bullet with more energy.
> 
> Seems like most ML guys shoot 100 grains of powder. I wonder if the guys shooting 150 grains have better luck with blood trails?


I shoot 150 grains of 777 with 250g shockwaves with a TC Omega. I shot my first deer with it Nov 16. double lung pass through. The deer sprayed blood for 50 yards and piled up. So far no complaints here.

The only problems i've had with blood trails we when using powerbelts..


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## Knight (Dec 7, 2005)

Higher percentage of body fat and thicker coat at the time of which most people muzzleload plus what has been said already about velocities = more poor blood trails. 

Never experienced it myself with a muzzleloader, but that is what makes sense to me. I use 300 grain bonded shockwaves pushed by 100grains of powder. The blood trails are astonishing.


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## ART (Jul 7, 2004)

I have generally gotten very good to excellent blood trails with a muzzleloader.
One deer with a .50 roundball/90 grains bp, and another 16 deer with either 250 grain TC PTX/90 grains pyrodex or my current load 250 shockwave/90 grains T7.
Most have gone down within 30 yards, none past 100.
Most blood trails looked like a crime scene.


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## Skinner 2 (Mar 19, 2004)

I lost track of all the deer we ahve taken with our Knight 50 cals. For years my dad's load was 110 Goex ffg and 310 grain .45 cal lead hollow points. I use 110 Goex FFG and 300 gr .45 XTP. 

I can remember two blood trails that were hard to follow and these were also under "today's" conditions. Deep light powdery snow. The blood would hit and get under the snow leaving no sign on top. Only the tiniest drops could be seen. Blood was ok on trees or sticks. We followed the deer's tracks and sometimes that was kind of hard as they crossed with others. What was strange was looking backward. Many of our footprints would then show the red blood on the bottom after we pushed/compacted the snow down. 

This year we took two with 300gr SST. My dad's had a fine trail with double lung and mine was unreal with a upper heart shot with both lungs. Mine was leaving softball size puddles and spray over three foot high in the grass and tag alders.

Why did I try SST's I dont know. I guess I just wanted to see if they would group better then the 2 inches were getting with the XTP at 100 yards. They did so we tried them.

OK Now we have only ever recovered one bullet from a deer the rest were all pass throughs. The bullet shown below was from a 175lb 8 point quartering away. Shot was 30 yards away. The bullet was just under the skin in front of the left shoulder. Entered in front of the right rear leg. THis was also a heart hit deer. What better performance could one ask for.









For all you guys saying they are not expanding is this just a guess or have you recovered the bullets? (Powerbelts aside)

As someone else said no exit with a high hit needs lots of blood before seeping out. Add the deep light snow and what drops out my be under the snow.

I can think of about 7 deer now that were shot on cristed snow with the 300gn XTP. Blood could be seen wide and far. Looking close many also had a very fine pink dusting. I would not ahve been able to see this on leaves.

Anyway this is what we have seen so far and totals deer should be 50 plus deer. Most deer drop in sight. I don't recall any/many that made it over 100 yards. I would say average distance was 25 to 50 yards traveled. We don't aim/shoot to drop in tracks. Heart lungs!

Skinner


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## jdawg240 (Oct 1, 2007)

Seems to be a Pattern???

150 grains 777 and a shockwave???????????? 

Its what I shoot as well and like others have posted complete pass throughs and good blood trails. I had shot powerbelts and never had a exit or blood trail.


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

Knight said:


> Higher percentage of body fat and thicker coat at the time of which most people muzzleload


I also have wondered if this could be the lack of blood trail problem. All that winter hair could soak up alot of blood.


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## soggybtmboys (Feb 24, 2007)

Munsterlndr said:


> I've been hunting with a muzzleloader for around 20 years, started off with a .54 Hawken shooting round balls and have moved on to two in-lines, one a .54 TC Thunderhawk and most recently a .50 Encore. I've probably harvested 15 or so deer with Muzzy's and the only one that did not have a good blood trail was the Encore with powerbelts. Since switching to 300 Gr. Shockwaves over 150 grains of T7 I have harvested 3 deer and all were complete pass through's with good blood trails. Question for those who are having problems with blood trails and who are not using Powerbelts (the problems with those have already been discussed ad nauseum), are most of the problems occurring during the muzzleloading season or do you also have problems during the regular firearms season when using a muzzleloader? I'm wondering if part of the problem is thicker layers of suet that may be present during the later season that can easily plug up an exit wound if the bullet does not expand very much. Just a thought, like I have said, after dumping powerbelts, expansion & penetration have not been a problem. I should also note that most of the shots that I take with a muzzleloader tend to be pretty short range (<65 yards.)


I think this is pretty close to what may be happening. I shot one after they fattened up and had lost a blood trail. 250grain Shockwave with 150 grains 777. She stopped bleeding because of fat plugging up the entrance and exit wounds. I really like the shockwaves, they group well for me and they carry accurately at greater distances that I often find myself hunting on three of the farms I hunt. With that being said, if I did not have the ranges to worry about and were hunting in situations that only offered me shots less than or equal to 100 yards....I would be hunting with a heavy grained hollow point. Every single deer I have ever shot with a hollow point sabot slug out of a muzzleloader has just absolutely annhialted the animal. Most of them dropped on the spot as well, never an issue with a blood trail. *Shot placement I have found, is to be kinda critical with any of the ballistic tip type sabot slugs. They carry real well downrange, but they tend to zip thru the animals quick and don't always expand...but are most certainly better than any of the powerbelts I have shot or read about.*


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## 7MM Magnum (Sep 10, 2003)

BallsRdragn said:


> I use the 240gr SST Hornady's. Blood trail's were awesome, so far 3 for 3. I have not experienced a bad trail yet.
> 
> Ben


 
Yep,... me too. 

But I use the Hornady XTP's in 240 and 300 grain,... never had a problem with them either.


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

I shoot a TC Encore, 150 grains of Shockey Gold Pellets, with a 300 grain TC Shockwave Bonded in .50 cal. I've never had a deer make it over 100 yards with massive blood loss. I'm not quite sure what the problem you are experiencing may be caused from. As far as not having passthrough shots, I've never experienced that either. Maybe I'm just lucky. One thing to keep in mind though, high lung shots above the center of the animal will tend to bleed less than shots through the lower heart lung area.


Also, on a side note. I used to shoot 777 but it kept leaving a foul ring in my barrel making it almost impossible to seat the next round properly. I highly recommend the Shockey Gold Pellets. It took me a little bit to get over the whole square peg in a round hole thing, but they are awesome. Just for the heck of it I shot 18 rounds through my Encore and never cleaned it between. The last shot was as accurate as the first.

Good luck hunting.
Jim


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## Ken (Dec 6, 2000)

Another vote here for the Barnes Expander bullets. I now shoot the Expander TMZ tipped bullet (290 gr.) with 150 gr. of 777 pellets. But, for most muzzleloader hunting where it is going to be shorter ranges, the original open hollow point Barnes Expanders are great. These things have a massive open hollow point, and will open up at any muzzleloader velocity. 

I shot a big doe last week with the 290 grain TMZ's, right before dark. By the time I changed my clothes and went to drag her out, it was dark. Once I got to the place where the deer was standing at the shot, the blood trail started. It was like someone was going along dipping a paint brush in red paint and shaking it out along both sides of the track. It was just as dramatic as any rifle shot blood trail I have seen. I even tried turning off my flashlight, and following the trail with no light (the moon was not out). I was easily able to follow the trail in the snow with no light on. The deer went about 50-60 yards and piled up. Hit was right behind the shoulder mid height.


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## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

Ken said:


> Another vote here for the Barnes Expander bullets. I now shoot the Expander TMZ tipped bullet (290 gr.) with 150 gr. of 777 pellets. But, for most muzzleloader hunting where it is going to be shorter ranges, the original open hollow point Barnes Expanders are great. These things have a massive open hollow point, and will open up at any muzzleloader velocity.
> 
> I shot a big doe last week with the 290 grain TMZ's, right before dark. By the time I changed my clothes and went to drag her out, it was dark. Once I got to the place where the deer was standing at the shot, the blood trail started. It was like someone was going along dipping a paint brush in red paint and shaking it out along both sides of the track. It was just as dramatic as any rifle shot blood trail I have seen. I even tried turning off my flashlight, and following the trail with no light (the moon was not out). I was easily able to follow the trail in the snow with no light on. The deer went about 50-60 yards and piled up. Hit was right behind the shoulder mid height.


Pretty awesome blood trail huh? I'm amazed at the blood I saw! Like I said earlier, it reminded me of a slasher movie. :lol:


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## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

field-n-feathers said:


> I shoot a TC Encore, 150 grains of Shockey Gold Pellets, with a 300 grain TC Shockwave Bonded in .50 cal. I've never had a deer make it over 100 yards with massive blood loss. I'm not quite sure what the problem you are experiencing may be caused from. As far as not having passthrough shots, I've never experienced that either. Maybe I'm just lucky. One thing to keep in mind though, high lung shots above the center of the animal will tend to bleed less than shots through the lower heart lung area.
> 
> 
> Also, on a side note. I used to shoot 777 but it kept leaving a foul ring in my barrel making it almost impossible to seat the next round properly. I highly recommend the Shockey Gold Pellets. It took me a little bit to get over the whole square peg in a round hole thing, but they are awesome. Just for the heck of it I shot 18 rounds through my Encore and never cleaned it between. The last shot was as accurate as the first.
> ...


Jim, I swear by American Pioneer. I've never had a crud ring, stinky smoke, an unruly recoil, or a hard loading sabot since I switched from 777 and Pyrodex.


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## 330-Trapper (Dec 8, 2008)

I Can't say why I've stuck with the Powerbelts so long,,, must have been the Advertising.... I've only taken 3 deer with them but you are right... blood trails were hard...


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## thunder river outfitters (Aug 21, 2007)

jdub said:


> seems you just don't get the same kind of expansion out of a muzzleloading sabot as you do a shotgun slug. I double lunged a doe this year in the snow. Only tiny specs for 30 or 40 yards, then it started spraying but it still wasn't the kind of blood trail i get with my 12 gauge.


i agree with the small specs of blood. Every deer we have taken this year had small specs of blood spray. I shot a 50cal with 245gr wal-mart brand bullet(i wont say the name). Everyone else was shooting the same brand and had the same reaction. Im thinking thats the problem.


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## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

thunder river outfitters said:


> i agree with the small specs of blood. Every deer we have taken this year had small specs of blood spray. I shot a 50cal with 245gr wal-mart brand bullet(i wont say the name). Everyone else was shooting the same brand and had the same reaction. Im thinking thats the problem.


:tsk: Walmart?


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## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

330-Trapper said:


> I Can't say why I've stuck with the Powerbelts so long,,, must have been the Advertising.... I've only taken 3 deer with them but you are right... blood trails were hard...


Try the Barnes Expander. You'll love them. Knight sells them as Red Hots. 
"Scissors cuts paper, and the Barnes will give you a complete pass-through where other bullets cannot."
http://www.chuckhawks.com/barnes_expander_bullets.htm

The EZ Load sabots really do work too. http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/s...e&cm_cat=CAT&cm_pla=425010003&cm_ite=name_cat
They're softer, and seem to have better expansion and velocity, making more consistant groups.


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## fishinmachine2 (May 7, 2004)

I've shot probably shot close to 20 deer with my Omega and have had great blood trails all but about 2!! I'm shooting 130 gr of Pyrodex and a 45 cal 250 gr XTP Hornady!! I just killed a doe Wed morning and she only went 30 yrd and piled up, the blood was spraying like a paint can!!


Scott


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## oldrank (Dec 5, 2006)

They bleed for me......I would guess it is the type of bullet and shot placement......


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

CMR,
My .58 is a flintlock with a 1:66 twist. It's made for round balls. The Great Plains don't shoot very good out of it.

I assume your T/C is 1:48 twist, which is much better for that. 

You can still get .58 Hawken's and Renegade's from the T/C custom shop called Fox Ridge Outfitters. Those come in 1:48 twist, in case someone wants to shoot those big conicals. They are HUGE!


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## STEELCHASER5150 (Aug 23, 2006)

Just got done skinnin a doe i shot tonight with t/c omega,nikon, 110 grns.pioneer,250 grn.shockwave superglide,,, shot just behind shoulder on a qtring away and she bleed like a sonaofa........She ran about 20yrds. on a lung shot and dumped on the run.


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## Nick Adams (Mar 10, 2005)

chuckinduck said:


> Why do Muzzleloaders leave poor blood trails?


I have not found this to be true. The deer I have shot with 54 roundballs and 45 200gr REALs have all left great blood trails. The deer I have shot with 128 gr 45 caliber roundballs have left more than adequate blood trails. All have been lung shots and complete pass-throughs leaving two holes.

-na


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## Paperboy 1 (Aug 7, 2008)

I have had hunts in the past where I have a shot a deer at close range in the neck and the bullet out of the ML had not passed through! 

The help I got here earlier this month about this subject showed me it is NOT the ML or me, it is the choice of bullet and amount of the charge behind it and matching that to the type of ML you are shooting that can and usually will change this problem of lack of blood or no pass through.

Using T/C XTP's this season I had 2 deer with complete pass throughs and the second one, being a nice 8 point, left a blood trail to rival any rifle hit I have seen.


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## kerby1 (Oct 17, 2006)

I did not read all the posts so if this was already mentioned, sorry, but I was always under the impression that they have their winter coats on them, heavier fur as well as as much fat as they are going to have at any point during the year, add in cold to freezing conditions, and you get conditions were blood clots and holes plug as quickly as they will and can under any conditions.


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## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

Paperboy 1 said:


> I have had hunts in the past where I have a shot a deer at close range in the neck and the bullet out of the ML had not passed through!
> 
> The help I got here earlier this month about this subject showed me it is NOT the ML or me, it is the choice of bullet and amount of the charge behind it and matching that to the type of ML you are shooting that can and usually will change this problem of lack of blood or no pass through.
> 
> Using T/C XTP's this season I had 2 deer with complete pass throughs and the second one, being a nice 8 point, left a blood trail to rival any rifle hit I have seen.


Glad it worked out for you Paperboy!


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## Bushbow (Nov 12, 2005)

http://www.prbullet.com/ulk.htm

I shoot a Thompson Center New Englander with 90 grains of Black powder and cannot say enough about these bullets for both accuracy and knock down power. Between a friend and I we have shot a dozen or so der with these bulets and most drop in their tracks as advertised. The few that have been able to run have left awesome blood trails. We found the bullet in the hide on the off side smashed to the size of a quarter on al of them. These bullets deliver as advertised and have been awesome. Two I shot a week ago Friday

Bob Urban


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## cardiac69 (Nov 27, 2007)

In the past two years I have killed three does with my TC Encore. The one last year I took with a 300g Shockwave with 2 T7 pellets. The shot was about 50 yards through the lungs with exit hole. She made it about 30 yards, massive blood trail the whole way.
I shot two more this year with 250g Shockwave and 2 T7 pellets. The first was double lung, broke offside leg and exited, went about 30 yards, moderate blood trail, but saw her go down. The second last weekend was at 80 yards, through the ribcage destroying lungs and liver and exited, She dropped right in her tracks.


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## Grey Ghost (Jun 25, 2002)

I'd suggest the Barnes bullets as well. The Expander line tend to perform extremely well in testing and the Spitfire TMZ's seem to shoot very well and leave great blood trails too.

I tuned up my Disc Elite late summer for a New Mexico mule deer hunt. I was shooting the Spitfire TMZ 250gr (boat tail base, polymer tip) and was getting 5" groups at 200yds with 100grains of 777. 

Took a coyote at 180yds on the first day of the trip and proceeded to take 2 javelinas (160 & 96yds) and a mulie (130yds), all great blood trails. All pass through shots with good exit holes. Then came back to Michigan and shot a doe at 155yds and a coyote at 105, again, both with pass throughs and the doe had a great 30yd blood trail, coyote went straight down. I'm very impressed with them and when we shot them into phone books at 200yds, they came out beautifully mushroomed. 

They are leaving the barrel at 1900fps, just for reference.


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## unclecbass (Sep 29, 2005)

If you hit a deer properly, I.e. doubble lung or heart shot, you will get a monster blood trail. I shot one last year that looked like two cans of spray paint had come out of both sides. Huge blood trail.


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## Grey Ghost (Jun 25, 2002)

I've personally witnessed three double lung shots, two with powerbelts and one with a buffalo bullet, that went over 100yds with no blood until the last 10-20yds. Wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen it. This was in the snow too. Double lung shots with exit holes sometimes do not bleed externally like you'd think. Shoot enough deer with anything and you'll see some weird stuff.


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## buckslayer2008 (Dec 2, 2008)

huntallday said:


> That is a good question. I have tried many combinations and have had similar results - poor blood trail. Presently I am pushing Barnes Expanders with 100 T7. I went with the Barnes because they are supposedly good for pass throughs. Well, last night I shat at a doe and never found her. I might have missed but a blood trail sure would have been nice. I look forward to someone with the knowledge to shed some light.


step 1- preseason practice shooting your gun, make sure it is on.
step 2- aim for the heart lung area, not the guts.
step 3- aim and slowly squeeze the trigger.
step 4- recover dead deer around 50 yds away, if u have hit in the heart lung area not the guts.

if u follow these simple steps then u might have a blood trail. i have shot around 12 deer with a muzzeloader and had good blood every time, following these simple steps.


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## old graybeard (Jan 19, 2006)

I have never had a bad blood trail with any of the deer I have shot with a muzzleloader My last three have been mature bucks that have gone less then 50 yards after the hit and the blood trails have been huge. All three of those were shot with a CVA Optima pro using power belt hollow points but I have had similar results with several other guns and loads from 50cal, 54 cal and 58 cal. guns. It is no different then any other weapon used to take deer but it has everything to do with shot placement.


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## jperry8 (Feb 6, 2006)

200 grains of pyrodex 777, 275gr. Fury ballistic tip bullets and a .45 mag rifle primer=never losing a deer. 11 killed in 2.5 years.


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## PahtridgeHunter (Sep 1, 2004)

BallsRdragn said:


> I use the 240gr SST Hornady's. Blood trail's were awesome, so far 3 for 3. I have not experienced a bad trail yet.
> 
> Ben


BRD, 

Just out of curiosity, are you hitting them in the boiler room or the shoulder? I ask because I use these same bullets and have had the last 4 deer leave NO blood trail. All were shoulder shot, 2 dropped on the spot, 2 ran 40-60 yards with not a speck of blood...not a single one had an exit hole. The bullets either stopped in the hide or fragmented and dispersed over the cavity.

-J


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## hunt-n-fool (Oct 10, 2006)

I have never had a ML shot deer not bleed well, hit them in the lungs and they bleed, may not die immediately, but within 100 yards they will.


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## bigbuck (Mar 17, 2001)

Another vote for Barnes expander, had good results on a doe this year. My son shot a doe last year with a Barnes TMZ and didn't get a good blood trail and yes it was recovered and shot through the lungs. I have experienced poor blood trals with shockwaves on lung shot deer. I have not lost a deer with a muzzleloader just had poor bloodtrails. Usually shoot between 100 and 120 grains of powder.


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## Jet08 (Aug 21, 2007)

huntallday said:


> Presently I am pushing Barnes Expanders with 100 T7. I went with the Barnes because they are supposedly good for pass throughs.
> 
> I also made the switch to the barnes, two does down last weekend. Both pass throughs. The most impressive was a slightly quartering 100yd doe that the bullet passed completely through length wise of here body. she didnt move so no blood there. The second was 30 yard broad side, can't say i was impressed with blood though......:sad:


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