# looking for closer working calm setter



## skidooboy

i know for the most part the field setters are more high strung and wired up. however i have saw some breedings that are more calm around the house and in the car/truck. 

i had a pair of tri color setters, the father (out of the late ce pagano dun roven kennels), and his son from a local breeding. the dogs were great hunters and companions, and hyper to a point, but controlable. 

i had to put both of them down a few years apart. two of the hardest things i ever had to do in my life. hard to put a good friend and what feels like one of your childern to permenant rest.

i have been bitten by the bug to try again, as i miss my buddies. any suggestions for good calm breeders? would prefer tri colors, but not against other options. i am looking for a specific looking setter, head, coat, tail size ect... some breedings, look "funny" to me. so, i guess you can say, i am looking for a specific body style.

would prefer close working, foot hunting, dogs. both my previous dogs were big runners, and i am getting too old to chase a big runnin dog. LOL! 

i live in central lower michigan, not afraid to travel a little to find the right dog for me and the mrs. not against an irish or gordon option. was rasied around the red setters, miss them a bunch too, and always liked the regal looking gordons. 

any help is appreciated. ski


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## Mike McDonald

Check out October Setters on the web. Great people, great dogs, that are thoroughly evaluated on wild birds. Might be something you'd like. Mike McDonald


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## GTHC

Give Jean Webb a call, she's from Sylvanus Gordon Setters in Ohio. 
Jean's a great person with some beautiful dogs.
740-477-1561

Good Luck!!


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## Setter

I sent you a PM regarding my upcoming litter.


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## Linda G.

Try Deb at Bierl Setters in Nwestern Wisconsin, about 20 miles from Ironwood, Michigan. I have one of her dogs and am very pleased with his personality and hunting ability, plus he has great stamina and goes all day for me if asked to. Never further than 80 yards or so, very biddable, and has been since he was a pup...now, that doesn't mean these dogs aren't crazy pups, they all are, but Cody grew up very nicely and was hunting a full season at a year and a half and doing a good job. 

www.bierlsetters.com

The breeding is Pinecoble and October. 

I know several other people with these dogs, I was a bit leery at first, but have been very pleased.


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## Mike McDonald

If the breeding is Pinecoble and October, why not just go to the foundation kennels? mike


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## 2ESRGR8

Mike McDonald said:


> If the breeding is Pinecoble and October, why not just go to the foundation kennels? mike


 Wait?
Price?
:evilsmile


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## Double Gun

2ESRGR8 said:


> Wait?
> Price?
> :evilsmile


 
There is also waiting list time and travel involved.


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## 2ESRGR8

Linda's link did not work for me but I was making the point that maybe they(Beirl) have pups on the ground ready to go where I know guys that have been waiting for a year or more for a Pinecoble dog.
And maybe they are half the price? I don't know.
Just sayin' there are some real nice dogs being bred by hobby breeders, buy the dog not the name/kennel/pedigree/etc......


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## happy bird hunter

Whispering woods kennels breeds old hemlock lines. They should be having a litter this spring.


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## Double Gun

Gotcha, as a matter of fact the are exactly half the price of pinecoble.


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## Mike McDonald

2ESRGR8 said:


> Linda's link did not work for me but I was making the point that maybe they(Beirl) have pups on the ground ready to go where I know guys that have been waiting for a year or more for a Pinecoble dog.
> And maybe they are half the price? I don't know.
> Just sayin' there are some real nice dogs being bred by hobby breeders, buy the dog not the name/kennel/pedigree/etc......


Scott, I'm not dissing the hobby breeder. I'm one. What I am saying is to buy your pup from a breeder that hunts both parents on your target species... Most people don't have the balls to cull a dog if they make a mistake so picking right is of utmost importance. I wouldn't consider buying a pup if I hadn't seen both parents work wild birds and if possible other dogs from their kennel.
Obviously I like my dogs but I've also watched at a minimum of 7 pinecoble dogs work and at least that many October setters. mac


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## 2ESRGR8

Mike McDonald said:


> Scott, I'm not dissing the hobby breeder. I'm one. What I am saying is to buy your pup from a breeder that hunts both parents on your target species... Most people don't have the balls to cull a dog if they make a mistake so picking right is of utmost importance. I wouldn't consider buying a pup if I hadn't seen both parents work wild birds and if possible other dogs from their kennel.
> Obviously I like my dogs but I've also watched at a minimum of 7 pinecoble dogs work and at least that many October setters. mac


 The best method, I prescribe to it too. 
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree theory.


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## Linda G.

I probably don't have the spelling right in that link, but they're there. Their pups are normally sold six months to a year in advance, I ordered Cody a year ahead of time. They had two breeding females when I bought Cody, and breed each one once a year. Blue is mostly all Pinecoble, Abbie is mostly all October, and that was enough of each for me. I have lost touch to some degree, but I believe they are now breeding daughters of Abbie and Bleu.

Why not go to the foundation? Well, I can't afford October, and I am not entirely thrilled with the direction that some of the Pinecoble breedings took for a while. It's better now, I understand. Warren did some outcrossing that he really needed to do. I am not a breeder, nor am I a competitor, I am a bird hunter who loves hunting with biddable English Setters that have great noses-therefore, I wanted the best I could get for the least amount of price within a reasonable distance of my home. 

And I got it. All of Bierl's dogs are hunted. That end of WI is mecca for ruffed grouse.


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## Bobby

Folks. To fill that little spot where I store what might be useless information (but some day might just serve a purpose) what is a rough estimate for the cost of an October setter? Pinecoble too?

Not trying to start a fire, just would like to know.

Thanks


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## 2ESRGR8

bobby said:


> folks. To fill that little spot where i store what might be useless information (but some day might just serve a purpose) what is a rough estimate for the cost of an october setter? Pinecoble too?
> 
> Not trying to start a fire, just would like to know.
> 
> Thanks


 $1200.00


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## MedicineMan

You may want to try Mountainview Kennels. http://www.llewellinsetter.8k.com/

I picked up a pup last year and he is definatly calmer than my previous ES. My last ES was a bird finding machine but just to much go for me. Tekoa Mountain Lines. Would have been a great Field Trial dog. My new one just turned 1 and he did ok last year. This year should be fun.


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## Linda G.

The Llews, thanks to Hank and friends, can be very over priced these days. I would consider $900 a great deal of money for a dog, particularly if you are just looking for a nice hunting/family companion. 

I looked very closely at Michigan's Llew lines before deciding on Cody. 

I'm also familiar with Nancy's dogs, and would have bought one of her pups if she hadn't already had them all sold well in advance. Like two years. Then I found the Bierl's dogs. I would buy another in a heartbeat with one consideration-some of Deb's pups have been very dark in coloration in the last couple of years, I don't like the dogs that have primarily black or lots and lots of "belton bleu"...I want to see them in the woods. Cody is borderline dark, I would like more white on him. I will pick carefully if I buy another Bierl's...and look at pups thrown from the same bitch and sire in the past.

I found the link...

www.beirlsetters.com/

here's Cody's page...Deb keeps up with all the pups as much as possible...Cody will be 4 this spring. 
http://www.beirlsetters.com/Cody.html


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## midwestfisherman

Since you were pleased with your previous setters, why not see what Rich at Dunn Roven has. Not all of these trial bred dogs are run off SOB's  

I have one that is at most a 75 - 100 yard dog. Very easy to hunt behind.


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## skidooboy

no disrespect for the current dunn roven kennels but, after moving the kennels, chuck being gone, and both my dogs being gone, i would rather go a different route this time. thanks for all the info guys and gals, keep it comming it really helps. ski


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## Northbound

We bought our pup from Setter in August 08.
Here is HIS coach







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Training at 9 mos








He also retrieves








and is an excellent dancer, I believe that's a waltz.


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## Mike McDonald

Northbound, He truly is a beautiful dog. Both he and Setter's aka Mark's brother's dogs are taller than their father, my dog Reed. I'd love to see him work sometime. I really like his tail set. Mike


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## Unregistered4

2ESRGR8 said:


> Deputy and close hunter should not be used in the same sentence...that is unless somehow the county being hunted has been rid of all deer. :yikes:


I took the Deputy out this weekend, again, looking for deer. I had him all "geared up" for the event and we couldn't find one deer. I found fifteen or twenty spots where deer had been bedded down for the evening...but no deer. That's two weekends in a row I've taken him out for a walk and found nothing...in a field that normally produces four or five deer every time...

Granted, he did seem to find every burr in the field and I spent an entire day grooming him afterwards. I think I have to come up with another plan...or another field, one absent of burrs at least...lol

He did run nice and handled beautiful if that matters at all or is any consolation. 

Brian.


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## slammer

Find a high fence preserve and I'm sure they would let you walk around for a few bucks and fix him. I'm sure they are long gone by Smiths Creek Hunt club used to have a few deer in a pen that I once had to use for the same problem.


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## Northbound

Mike McDonald said:


> Northbound, He truly is a beautiful dog. Both he and Setter's aka Mark's brother's dogs are taller than their father, my dog Reed. I'd love to see him work sometime. I really like his tail set. Mike


Thanks Mike, I'll get in touch with you this fall. In the mean time we plan to enter Jack in a couple RGS Fun Trials this spring.


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## midwestfisherman

Unregistered4 said:


> I took the Deputy out this weekend, again, looking for deer. I had him all "geared up" for the event and we couldn't find one deer. I found fifteen or twenty spots where deer had been bedded down for the evening...but no deer. That's two weekends in a row I've taken him out for a walk and found nothing...in a field that normally produces four or five deer every time...
> 
> Granted, he did seem to find every burr in the field and I spent an entire day grooming him afterwards. I think I have to come up with another plan...or another field, one absent of burrs at least...lol
> 
> He did run nice and handled beautiful if that matters at all or is any consolation.
> 
> Brian.


Brian, if you're ever down this way with Deputy, I can take you to a couple of places where Brad and I run our dogs which is loaded with deer.


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## skidooboy

thanks for all the help from everyone, i am still looking and keeping my options open. 

i want to personally thank mac and setter for putting up with me. i understand their dogs are going to have a great litter, possibly smaller and completely or almost completely spoken for. i didnt want to put myself in a position to find out i commited to a litter, that i couldnt get a pup out of. 

i am looking for a smaller stature dog 45-55 pounds. with a particular head and coat texture and colors. i am not big on the orange or chestnut colorings. i really like the tri's and tri beltons, white/black ticked, and blue beltons. that is what i previously had and want to continue that pattern.


i think i have it narrowed down to mountain view breeding, of hank and lady they have a litter due at the end of april. i am also still looking into october, and beirl's kennels and their offererings. i havent got the chance to call dun roven yet. again, i am still looking and keeping my options open. still looking if there are more suggetions. thanks again to all, keep the info comming please. ski


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## Setter

Its your decision skidooboy, but I think that you are closing out the opportunity for a great pup before they are even born to find out what she is carrying. The variety that she had the last litter was like a box of chocolates -- everyone was different, and that is part of the excitement of having a litter in that you don't know for sure what she will have. With english setters, its not like most other dogs where they all look the same i.e. golden retreivers etc.


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## Bobby

I was going thru this thread, 1st time in a while, and I really like this photo.
Why?
It's summer, there are leaves on the trees, sharp shadows, it's warm, the grass is green and we would be getting the boat ready to go fishing.

Florida tomorrow..............................oh boy

I really like the heavy markings or ticking on those October Setters and the other similar breeding. I think October is the kennel that has the advertising photo of all the dogs on a picnic table. It's a neat one. It's not at their website, maybe my memory is still in poor shape from my younger years.


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## 2ESRGR8

That's a dunroven dog in the background, he's a pretty nice dog.
The tri color standing will end up being Brian's best dog, he won't admit now because she is his wife's specail baby.
As for the dog laying down in the foreground....well the jury is still out on that knucklehead.


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## Big Nic

Another vote for Rich and his Dun Roven setters. I have Joker and he will turn 4 YO next month. A very nice bidable dog that handles well and will stay close or stretch his legs as the terrain permits. He is a joy to have as a companion , at home on the couch or in his outdoor kennel.

Very nice 12 oclock tail on point , retrieves to hand, and has weighed 42 pounds since the day I got him. Very pleased with Joker and thankful that Rich let me make him part of my family.


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## skidooboy

am i missing something? not trying to be a smart alec but, i have a question on deposits. it seems everyone is willing to take deposits on breedings even if they "over sell" the litter. 

then the deposit (non-refundable by most reports) is kept by the kennel till the depositor gets a pup from either that breeding or another at a later time? what if they dont have another same pairing, what if you dont want to "settle" for a different breeding or litter???

having a hard time parting with the money and then being locked into a particular breeder, if the litter i want to get into is sold out and never bred into again. (or maybe years later). 

very close to pulling the trigger on a deposit, just want to make sure i have my ducks in a row. scared i wont get "the" breeding pup i am looking for in a reasonable amount of time. ski


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## 2ESRGR8

Most breeders only take 6 deposits has been my experience.
Even then anything can happen but I wouldn't deal with anyone that won't give you your deposit back if they cannot produce a pup from the litter you are dropping money on.


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## Linda G.

I agree with Scott about the six deposits...and if you don't get what you want with THAT litter, you get your money back right then. 

I've also noticed that some people are taking deposits before they've even selected a stud. I would never send a deposit until you know exactly what the breeding is you're getting.


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## skidooboy

i was about 90% sure i was going to go with mountain view but, i am not guarnteed any pick from the litter i am interested in, even if it is not sold out. from what i gather from the website and emails we have been bouncing, when you are next in line they give you a choice of litters and pups left... then you pick, if you so choose. but the deposits are non refundable. 

i am having a hard time with placing a deposit when you are looking for a specific body style, coloring ect.... you may have to wait a looooong time to get a pup YOU want.

guess i dont understand the protocols in new age kennel sales. there are either pups available from a litter (after they are born) and you can put a deposit on a pick, by the order in which your deposit was recieved, or the litter is completely spoken for. 

if you have a deposit on a specific breeding and you dont get your pick, i would think you could get your deposit back but, by what i gather, you cant. 

what am i missing? or should i just move on to another breeder? ski


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## Unregistered4

skidooboy said:


> i was about 90% sure i was going to go with mountain view but, i am not guarnteed any pick from the litter i am interested in, even if it is not sold out. from what i gather from the website and emails we have been bouncing, when you are next in line they give you a choice of litters and pups left... then you pick, if you so choose. but the deposits are non refundable.
> 
> i am having a hard time with placing a deposit when you are looking for a specific body style, coloring ect.... you may have to wait a looooong time to get a pup YOU want.
> 
> guess i dont understand the protocols in new age kennel sales. there are either pups available from a litter (after they are born) and you can put a deposit on a pick, by the order in which your deposit was recieved, or the litter is completely spoken for.
> 
> if you have a deposit on a specific breeding and you dont get your pick, i would think you could get your deposit back but, by what i gather, you cant.
> 
> what am i missing? or should i just move on to another breeder? ski


OK...lets say I'm a breeder...

And, I have a litter coming up that "may" have a pup you want. I take six or seven deposits, including yours. Then I end up turning away six or seven other interested folks, because I can only assume I'm going to get around six or seven pups (hopefully) out of the dam. 

So, now those six or seven folks that I didn't take a deposit from...have, probably, gone off to find a pup from another breeder. 

And, then lets say I end up having eight pups.

Then lets say, you come in to look at the pups and your looking for a blue eyed, black eared, mostly white body, short coupled, long body, with ticking just the way "you" like it. You look...and, well, I don't have a pup that meets your requirements...and now, I've gone and turned people away because I didn't want to get stuck holding a lot of deposits that I knew I could never fill in the first place, and didn't want to hold them up from finding a puppy.

So, if I was a breeder I'd tell you to get lost. Because, we're breeding dogs here not painting cars. Get my drift?

If you want a certain puppy and he has to look the way "you" want him too. Start searching through litters already on the ground and hope for the best. Or give a deposit to a breeder that is breeding dogs similar to what you want and, again, hope for the best.

Good luck,

Brian.


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## Linda G.

Most breeders I know that take only 5 or six deposits will STILL take your name down in case they have more pups or in case one of the people with a deposit drops out...and they also find out what you're looking for, and warn you if they may not be able to deliver exactly what you want IF it happens a pup becomes available. These people will also ask you to stay in touch with them and let them know if you are no longer interested. If they don't hear from you within a reasonable amount of time, you're off their list, and they contact someone else. 

I know breeders who practically do criminal background checks on their prospective owners LONG before they actually sell them a pup...and if there's ANYTHING they don't like about you, suddenly something goes very wrong with that entire litter...LOL

And I would personally not want to deal with someone as picky as you're describing...LOL

I have never known a breeder that wouldn't let you pick from the pups that are still available...and I wouldn't deal with that person...

Ski, find another breeder. If you are not allowed to pick out the pup YOU want from what's left, you will always find fault with that dog in some way because it was not the dog you wanted...


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## skidooboy

i know it sounds like "i am one of those picky people" but really, i just know what i am looking for. 

take mountain view for example. they have alot of chestnut colors in their litters... not for the coloring but for the breeding pairs. i dont happen to like the chestnut on a setter, to me (and i know i will get blasted but, i have broad shoulders) they look like a brittney with long hair and tail. (get my drift?)

i dont like a huge headed setter or big bodied settter, just not my thing. those are my only requirements. i know everyone of you look at the dam and sire before you buy, and decide if that is the breeding and style YOU want. 

i am doing no different. i just have a question of over-selling litters and then not getting the deposit back if that litter isnt available to me that i chose to put a deposit on. ski


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## 2ESRGR8

Go to this thread on the coverdog board and call this lady and see what she has, sounds like a couple 7 month old pups are available.
John Yates was a dedicated setter man.
http://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/msg/1267757581.html


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## RecurveRx

Why not take a look at the Setter GSP Gal referenced in a recent thread? He would give you several years of good service while you're on the waiting list for your pup.


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