# the answer to the failing crossbow??



## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

How is the xbow failing, that's all we pretty much see anymore is guy's running around with them. My buddy who owns an archery shop says they out sell compounds something like 3 to 1.


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## timbrhuntr (Feb 4, 2009)

I usually don't get involved in this stuff but I think the guy using the access to disabled hunters like wounded vets is just using that as scam to get a weapon that has no business in archery season into the archery season period !!!!!!


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## UpNorthAirGunner (Sep 5, 2017)

stickbow shooter said:


> How is the xbow failing, that's all we pretty much see anymore is guy's running around with them. My buddy who owns an archery shop says they out sell compounds something like 3 to 1.


I agree - to say that crossbows are failing just makes this conversation muddier than it needs to be. Crossbows and crossbow sales are doing great and are probably one of the fastest growth areas within hunting. I actually think that is one of the driving reasons for the push back from the archery side of this conversation (backed by archery manufacturers). The idea of airgun based hunting with arrows could threaten their sales. For the record I actually don't agree with the title of this forum thread - although I am 100% in support of airbows / airbolts for disabled hunters. There doesn't have to be winners and losers in this conversation.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

I really don't care what anyone that is Disabled uses. If it's a rifle, bow , air bow or runs them over with a truck. What ever keeps them hunting. And on a side note. I don't think anyone who served should have to even pay for a licence.


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## UpNorthAirGunner (Sep 5, 2017)

timbrhuntr said:


> I usually don't get involved in this stuff but I think the guy using the access to disabled hunters like wounded vets is just using that as scam to get a weapon that has no business in archery season into the archery season period !!!!!!


I am just an airgunner / hunter that loves my sport and would love to bring more people into it. I am also a U.S. Army Veteran and also a current crossbow hunter and formerly a compound bow hunter. This conversation is about INCLUSION not EXCLUSION.

Allowing disabled people to hunt with an airbow / airbolt will in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM have ANY effect on you or your hunting experience. Giving disabled hunters access to an easier to use technology should be the goal.

If anyone thinks this conversation is all about big business and a strategic legislative money grab - that doesn't make any sense. Airguns are already legal for the Firearm season and that makes up a HUGE percentage of the market opportunity vs. the disabled hunter population. Just look at this deer harvest study from 2016. Liberty and Independence Hunters made up less than 1/2 of 1 percent of the overall hunter population that harvested a deer in 2016.

If you look at this issue from a skeptical point of view that this is just about selling a bunch of airbows / airbolts to disabled hunters - the math doesn't add up. From a basic head count of disabled people (potential consumers) it is so insignificant as compared to the larger archery and firearm hunter population.

So even after that nugget of truth - If someone still looks at this topic through the filter that is just big business - I would be aiming that skepticism towards archery equipment makers and the special interest groups they support. From what I have seen and researched in the published material about this bill - they are the loudest voices against this. Follow the money people - for AND / OR against.


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## Riverdude (Dec 21, 2017)

Airgunner, "seriously I want to better understand this position"..........
You obviously don't understand the first thing about "Archery"
It is where you propel an arrow from a bow where the shooter pulls the weight of the bow and holds that weight at full draw.
If you add some mechanical device or gadget that holds that weight it is no longer a bow. It is in fact a gun.
Your argument is the same one many of us bowhunters fought against crossbows in the 80's.
Just because something propels an arrow doesn't mean it belongs in archery season.
" use the same weapon for all seasons"
" more challenging as a marksman"
And you're the one "Calling BS".
I asked this above and in another thread and no one has answered my question yet;
Where do you draw the line on technology in "Archery Season"?
Good Grief!


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## UpNorthAirGunner (Sep 5, 2017)

Riverdude said:


> Airgunner, "seriously I want to better understand this position"..........
> You obviously don't understand the first thing about "Archery"
> It is where you propel an arrow from a bow where the shooter pulls the weight of the bow and holds that weight at full draw.
> If you add some mechanical device or gadget that holds that weight it is no longer a bow. It is in fact a gun.
> ...


I am going to ignore your comment about me not understanding the first thing about archery. We all have Google and could throw Latin definitions at each other about the origins of the word arcus and the definition of the word is about the use of a bow or a device that is based on a bow. That isn't the conversation I am trying to have, because academically you are right. 

But the point you are trying to make is like saying all of those U.S. Paralympic Sled Hockey players need to get up off their asses and be upright like "real" hockey players. They use two sticks instead of one! How shameful! No. They are real men and women who have used technology to enjoy sport and it doesn't take ANYTHING away from the NHL or other hockey players. Period.

So with your comment about the 80s and the fight against crossbows - you just made my point for me. "Your argument is the same one many of us bowhunters fought against crossbows in the 80's. Just because something propels an arrow doesn't mean it belongs in archery season." 

So based on your struggle in the 80s - not trying to use your words against you - but I really want to understand. You went through this "struggle" back in the 80s to try to fight off crossbow technology. With a few decades behind us and most everyone's hair isn't too much on fire now about the crossbow issue (though still smoldering for some) - my question to you is this: 

Is your vertical / traditional bow hunting experience some how worse off today than it was before crossbow hunters were allowed with you in the woods during archery season? Are the woods being overrun by hoards of crossbowers crowding out all the traditional archers? No Difference what so ever. None.


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## Bucman (Jun 29, 2016)

Crimsonarrow! said:


> IV yet to meet true hunter who has made the switch to an x bow unless they have physical limitations. But somehow there are those people who can justify it. They probably think everyone should get an honorable mention trophy for do less as well. Let's keep some skills. Teach our young boys/men to push a little harder.


 Dude I’m more of a hunter than you’ll ever be .... and sportsman!! Along with many others here. I hunt with all the legal methods if it moves me that day. I hunt private and public. I don’t p&m about others methods or success. I’m disgusted with your holier than thow attitude. Grow up 


Now I feel better!!


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## 7mmsendero (Dec 2, 2010)

stickbow shooter said:


> I really don't care what anyone that is Disabled uses. If it's a rifle, bow , air bow or runs them over with a truck. What ever keeps them hunting. And on a side note. I don't think anyone who served should have to even pay for a licence.


I agree, and they should have access to out of state deals on tags for life.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

[QUOTE="Riverdude, post: 6721463, member: 112889".........

Your argument is the same one many of us bowhunters fought against crossbows in the 80's.
my question yet;
..........
[/QUOTE]

During the 80's you were fighting against crossbows ? Where were you living then ? I believe it was in '09 that crossbows became legal for anyone and it was a few years before that they became legal for the hadicapped with a doctors written letter that could be submitted to the DNR.

L & O


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## Riverdude (Dec 21, 2017)

1988, Michigan Bowhunters Rendezvous, Harrison Fairgrounds.
For a $1 donation you could try and throw a crossbow into a 55 gal. drum.

L & O, as a member of MCF, would you care to answer my question as to if and where a line should be drawn on technology as it pertains to archery deer season?


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Riverdude said:


> 1988, Michigan Bowhunters Rendezvous, Harrison Fairgrounds.
> For a $1 donation you could try and throw a crossbow into a 55 gal. drum.
> 
> L & O, as a member of MCF, would you care to answer my question as to if and where a line should be drawn on technology as it pertains to archery deer season?


What is MCF ? I would like to know what I am a member of.

I can see where that would be a fun thing to do at a MBH rendezvous, but to imply that playing ring-toss with a crossbow was part of a fight against crossbows is at best a stretch.

L & O


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## Riverdude (Dec 21, 2017)

Michigan Crossbow Federation. ^


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## Bucman (Jun 29, 2016)

Riverdude said:


> Michigan Crossbow Federation. ^


Where can i join??


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## BlackRhino (Feb 21, 2005)

Martian said:


> good question, I don't think it will be the airbow,, they are heavy, and I think there is this rather expensive tank you have to buy to shoot it. I think x- bows, for one, need to stop with the,," Our bow shoots 390, our bow shoots 400, our bow shoots 410, etc. " It really appears to me that engineers have these things way to hot for their limbs. Maybe that hand thing, needs to wrap around your hand, where you can't put it over., but, all that said, they scare me. I work part tiem at an archery shop, and every time I demonstrate one, I am nervous


Why should the xbow companies stop talking up speed? The compound companies have been doing this for years....until they hit the wall. I'm sure the engineers will overcome speed wise, then they'll start again.

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## BlackRhino (Feb 21, 2005)

Crimson just sounds butthurt. You hunt your way, others will hunt theirs. As long as it's legal, you would be doing yourself a huge favor by keeping your mouth shut.

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## BlackRhino (Feb 21, 2005)

Riverdude quotes MBHA from 30 years ago!!!! I remember back then I almost joined that group until I met a few of the guys. Maybe one was riverdude...

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## BlackRhino (Feb 21, 2005)

Martian, I should add it scares me if you are working on something you are afraid of....and that something I may really want fixed correctly. Not a slam, but I surely would let the owner know you are afraid of them so the customers get a fair shake

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## retired dundo (Jul 21, 2015)

I think it is just normal for every thing to ke epgetting better every year.Just look at the difference in compounds in the last 20 years.And us hunters want all the improvements.Look at the improve ments in slug guns,muzzleloader cameras,blinds in last 30 years.If a hunting fanatic that died in the 70s or 80s came back to life and walked in CabbelAs he would be amazed at what we have


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## BlackRhino (Feb 21, 2005)

retired dundo said:


> I think it is just normal for every thing to ke epgetting better every year.Just look at the difference in compounds in the last 20 years.And us hunters want all the improvements.Look at the improve ments in slug guns,muzzleloader cameras,blinds in last 30 years.If a hunting fanatic that died in the 70s or 80s came back to life and walked in CabbelAs he would be amazed at what we have


Pretty darn true words there.

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## UpNorthAirGunner (Sep 5, 2017)

Well we finally got out the other day to test out the new AirVenturi bolt system with the AirForce Texan .357. This thing is crazy accurate! At 50- yards and in we were doing 1.5 inch groups! I will be in the Lansing area again soon doing demonstrations if any of you are interested in trying this out. It is pretty awesome and to anyone who was concerned about accuracy - well this video speaks for itself! (I would never attempt a hunting shot at this distance - but we attempted it to just prove a point - point was made!) Watch:


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