# CWAC Meeting January



## Brougham (Jan 29, 2010)

What's on the table at this meeting? I'm hearing discussion/recommendation on opening days and season format 2019. Zone boundaries will be discussed for a future vote. Cranes, when?


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

The feds are dropping our limit back to 1 pintail.


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## cruiseplanner1 (Aug 6, 2012)

The season dates will also be set for the next three years. Contact your CWAC rep with your choice and opinion on dates. These are federal guidelines and not the states choice so do not comment on setting three years at a time as that is out of the DNR control. Do it soon as the meeting is on January 5th 2019


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

I have good word that they are pushing for early openers across the board. 10/5 opener in zone 3. That is ridiculous and if you care at all please contact your rep and tell them that’s a terrible idea. Certain individuals with power are tying to chase Mother Nature. You will never win that battle. Some years we win and some we lose. This years dates were perfect for an average year. Unfortunately we had an unusually cold November and a very early big push of birds in mid October.. Making date suggestions off of this year is ridiculous.


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## StiffNeckRob (Apr 19, 2007)

craigrh13 said:


> I have good word that they are pushing for early openers across the board. 10/5 opener in zone 3. That is ridiculous and if you care at all please contact your rep and tell them that’s a terrible idea. Certain individuals with power are tying to chase Mother Nature. You will never win that battle. Some years we win and some we lose. This years dates were perfect for an average year. Unfortunately we had an unusually cold November and a very early big push of birds in mid October.. Making date suggestions off of this year is ridiculous.


Lemme guess who the chick is that's pushing for this.....

Are you going to be there?


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

StiffNeckRob said:


> Lemme guess who the chick is that's pushing for this.....
> 
> Are you going to be there?


Sad part is it’s not just her. It’s several Bay Area people. Yes, I will be there.


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

The Bay is definitely the elephant in the room. Realize that the Bay lost their birds with the winds on or about October 27.

It froze solid on many areas prior to November 30.

This year on opening day, bufflehead were present.

Those are the issues that you may be arguing against.

The Bay is far enough north to have a climate and migration pattern like Zone 2 but is near enough to population centers to attract Zone 3 crowds.

Btw: I took this pic off the Sebewaing River on November 30.


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## wavie (Feb 2, 2004)

Cant make meeting but contacted my rep. Took all of 2 minutes at the most.

Will you?
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/CWAC_List_Of_Members_450259_7.pdf


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

John Singer said:


> The Bay is definitely the elephant in the room. Realize that the Bay lost their birds with the winds on or about October 27.
> 
> It froze solid on many areas prior to November 30.
> 
> ...


This year was certainly an anomaly. Like I said, we can’t make judgements based on extremes. Take out the extremes on both ends and what we have currently is nearperfect for the masses.


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## StiffNeckRob (Apr 19, 2007)

wavie said:


> Cant make meeting but contacted my rep. Took all of 2 minutes at the most.
> 
> Will you?
> https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/CWAC_List_Of_Members_450259_7.pdf


I believe there's been some updates to this list, particularly in SW reps.


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## cruiseplanner1 (Aug 6, 2012)

We have also sent out to each Area Chairman of Ducks Unlimited to survey their hunting members and DU will present all of those option choices to the DNR. I am not sure that there has ever been a large scale survey like this before but we hope it helps. Please contact your chapter chairman if you have a preference. Before there are any comments DU has a representative seat on the board along with other waterfowl groups to represent their members.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

cruiseplanner1 said:


> We have also sent out to each Area Chairman of Ducks Unlimited to survey their hunting members and DU will present all of those option choices to the DNR. I am not sure that there has ever been a large scale survey like this before but we hope it helps. Please contact your chapter chairman if you have a preference. Before there are any comments DU has a representative seat on the board along with other waterfowl groups to represent their members.


I seen that survey on several FB pages. The results showed overwhelmingly to keep the dates set as they currently are.


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## cruiseplanner1 (Aug 6, 2012)

None of those should have been DU surveys as we can only survey our membership. But I see that also


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

Years ago NP was part of the middle zone, why did that change? My guess is for migration reasons, season was still on and the ducks were gone maybe?


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## Sparky13 (Sep 22, 2013)

I'll be there. Any sw guys feel free to shoot me an email with input you may have. [email protected] 

Sent from my SM-G920P using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## cruiseplanner1 (Aug 6, 2012)

NP was moved to the south zone back in either 85 or 86 when they decided due to put the whole Saginaw Bay into the south zone to disperse the hunting crowds on opening weekend. With only the shore from Linwood to Au Gres breakwall there were so many hunters using that middle zone opener it was not a quality hunt and there was fighting and other issues. Has worked out great. I know I live there and seen it before and now.


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

cruiseplanner1 said:


> NP was moved to the south zone back in either 85 or 86 when they decided due to put the whole Saginaw Bay into the south zone to disperse the hunting crowds on opening weekend. With only the shore from Linwood to Au Gres breakwall there were so many hunters using that middle zone opener it was not a quality hunt and there was fighting and other issues. Has worked out great. I know I live there and seen it before and now.


This issue is what makes Saginaw Bay the elephant in the room. It complicates scheduling the waterfowl seasons for Zone 3. 

The migration in SW Michigan is much later than the Bay. Lake Erie/LSC even has a later timetable.

Like I said earlier, the Bay has climate more like Zone 2 than Zone 3 but is close enough to Zone 3 to experience crowding issues. 

It is a complex problem.

Good luck at CWAC.


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## hoody25 (Jun 9, 2007)

Sparky13 said:


> I'll be there. Any sw guys feel free to shoot me an email with input you may have. [email protected]
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Email sent 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## Zeboy (Oct 4, 2002)

John Singer said:


> This issue is what makes Saginaw Bay the elephant in the room. It complicates scheduling the waterfowl seasons for Zone 3.
> 
> The migration in SW Michigan is much later than the Bay. Lake Erie/LSC even has a later timetable.
> 
> ...


So basically, because of fears about opening day crowding, we keep Saginaw Bay in zone 3??? One of the dumbest decisions ever.

One day dictates how we schedule our entire season. Just isn't a good scenario for all the people who actually hunt in the "real zone 3". All one has to do is look at a map of Michigan. It's pretty darn clear that Saginaw Bay isn't in the southern third of Michigan. . . .


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

Zeboy said:


> So basically, because of fears about opening day crowding, we keep Saginaw Bay in zone 3??? One of the dumbest decisions ever.


If you go to CWAC, be sure to tell the reps and NRC that. They really like to hear that kind of input.

I wish you all well with the January CWAC meeting.


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## Brougham (Jan 29, 2010)

So where would the new line be to put Saginaw Bay in Z2. Use old east/west boundary on west side of state. Going east, use US 10 east (old boundary) to M-25 to Unionville, then east on Bay City /Forestville Rd to Forestville on Lake Huron. Puts the Bay, Fish PT, and Nayanquing, in Z2. Shiawassee and Crow Island Z3 Or East on US-10 (old boundary) to I-75, go south to M-46, then east to Sandusky, on Lake Huron, see route. That's if those areas want the change. I believe zones get voted on next year. There will be discussion at this meeting I'm sure. My guess is in the future we'll have four zones to satisfy a southern Michigan later opener. No more split possibility. Recommended openers for 2019 follow 2018's pattern. Would be tough to deviate for 2019. But could happen.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

Zone and boundary discussions are on 5 year windows.

The next opportunity to change boundary’s or number of zones will be in 2021.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Zeboy said:


> So basically, because of fears about opening day crowding, we keep Saginaw Bay in zone 3??? One of the dumbest decisions ever.
> 
> One day dictates how we schedule our entire season. Just isn't a good scenario for all the people who actually hunt in the "real zone 3". All one has to do is look at a map of Michigan. It's pretty darn clear that Saginaw Bay isn't in the southern third of Michigan. . . .


I agree for the most part. The weather and bird patterns from the bay to even PM are very different. Saginaw bay would be better off being in zone 2. Hell, throw the bay and the areas you mentioned in zone 2 and give them a week split at whatever date they want to satisfy both groups. It won’t ever happen but it does make sense.


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## Duke (Oct 6, 2000)

Zeboy said:


> So basically, because of fears about opening day crowding, we keep Saginaw Bay in zone 3??? One of the dumbest decisions ever.
> 
> One day dictates how we schedule our entire season. Just isn't a good scenario for all the people who actually hunt in the "real zone 3". All one has to do is look at a map of Michigan. It's pretty darn clear that Saginaw Bay isn't in the southern third of Michigan. . . .


Nothing is ever that simple. Overcrowding on opener due to splitting the Bay into 2 zones is not just a fear, and must be avoided. 

The Bay also freezes early- at least most of the shore hunting areas and access points can often freeze early. That is a reason to keep it in zone 3.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Duke said:


> Nothing is ever that simple. Overcrowding on opener due to splitting the Bay into 2 zones is not just a fear, and must be avoided.
> 
> The Bay also freezes early- at least most of the shore hunting areas and access points can often freeze early. That is a reason to keep it in zone 3.


Early freeze up is a reason to keep it in zone 2. 

In all reality the northern lower could be thrown into zone 1 and I’m sure it would benefit more so than being in zone 2.


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## R.J.M. (Jun 10, 2007)

Be nice to have a 4th zone using 8 mile/ baseline as the dividing line. Any thoughts on this . And as far as CWAC
Why can’t each zone representatives 
Just vote on what they feel is good for there zone only . And if you are a rep
From an organization such as DU you get one vote pick your zone and vote on those purposeals. Why should a zone 3 rep have anything to say about what zones 1&2 gets or vis versa .


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Duke said:


> Nothing is ever that simple. Overcrowding on opener due to splitting the Bay into 2 zones is not just a fear, and must be avoided.
> 
> The Bay also freezes early- at least most of the shore hunting areas and access points can often freeze early. That is a reason to keep it in zone 3.


Early freeze up is a reason to keep it in zone 2. 

In all reality the northern lower could be thrown into zone 1 and I’m sure it would benefit more so than being in zone 2.


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

Duke said:


> Nothing is ever that simple. Overcrowding on opener due to splitting the Bay into 2 zones is not just a fear, and must be avoided.
> 
> The Bay also freezes early- at least most of the shore hunting areas and access points can often freeze early. That is a reason to keep it in zone 3.


If the shore line freezes early then its a reason to put it in Zone 2 and start it a week earlier. 

Someone said that the ice issue was just a one year anomaly for northern Zone 3, wrong. And I'm using the 40+ years of data in my head on seasons shutting down early in the bay area due to winter conditions. 

The real elephant in the room is not the Saginaw Bay, its the open water hunters wanting to hunt as late as possible to get the sea ducks and old squaw. And I get it, there are more south open water hunters than us that hunt marshes and flooded corn fields. 

NP needs to be in Zone 2, like it was in the past.


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## duckcommander101 (Jan 14, 2003)

For the most part the CWAC reps vote the line of the reps from the particular area that is being voted on


QUOTE="R.J.M., post: 7088387, member: 25884"]Be nice to have a 4th zone using 8 mile/ baseline as the dividing line. Any thoughts on this . And as far as CWAC
Why can’t each zone representatives
Just vote on what they feel is good for there zone only . And if you are a rep
From an organization such as DU you get one vote pick your zone and vote on those purposeals. Why should a zone 3 rep have anything to say about what zones 1&2 gets or vis versa .[/QUOTE]


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## R.J.M. (Jun 10, 2007)

For the most part . ???


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## duckcommander101 (Jan 14, 2003)

Yes.


R.J.M. said:


> For the most part . ???


I have yet to see a vote go against the preferred season dates of the zone being voted ons reps.
It could have happened in the past before I attended the meetings though.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Someone recently said that the biggest wrench in all of this talk is the managed areas. Placing them in a GMU outside the zone would solve a lot of issues.


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## Brougham (Jan 29, 2010)

At a past CWAC meeting I attended, the DNR pushed for staggered "front loaded seasons" for all three zones. Rolling the dice that we can always hunt early, but weather/ice could impact seasons end on water (lost Mang Area days for sure). They showed charts of management area bird numbers supporting their claim that ducks show up mid-late Sept.. I believe they also said Sag Bay was hunted by more waterfowlers than any other area of the state. Maybe that's why it's the "elephant in the room" for these discussions. I'll bet we have four zones as soon as they allow another vote. With our streak of 60 day seasons, I'd let the split go. I don't see a conservative season coming anytime soon, IMO. Thank goodness we're not dealing with 30 days and 3 ducks again. Now that would be a bare knuckle brawl.


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## fsamie1 (Mar 8, 2008)

Please bring up following hunter dislikes:
1. Posting kill charts at managed areas.
2. Allow mojo in all managed areas.
3. Limit managed area hunting to 20 times per person.
4. Do it like Canada, 90 day season and 6 of any duck.
5. Tell Pointe Mouillee to dig ditches for oat access.
6. More COs presence at managed areas to catch sky busters with too many shells.

I probably come up with more improvements later.:lol:


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Much better hunts at Shiawassee without spinners. 

Won't kill ducks at Fennville or Muskegon without them. That said, not much talk about west Michigan getting a later season. I'd much rather hunt in 4" of snow that swat bugs, shoot nasty half plumed ducks that spoil before the end of the hunt.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

i seen a ducks unlimited poll about season dates and it was comical. whoever put that together needs to NOT be in charge of anything duck hunting related.

fsamie, i'm not sure what planet you are from but maybe we can return you to it. i'll pay for the rocket ride.

last 3 season dates/starts/closes/splits have been best i've seen in all my years of duck hunting. The least amount of complaining in the last 15 years on here alone. Careful what you guys push for and eventually get...because it may swing back at you twice as hard if it is disliked and/or fails.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

As I said earlier, Boundary’s and Zones aren’t up for vote until 2021.

If I were a Zone 3 hunter wanting the Bay in Zone 2 or a 4th Zone, I’d scream long and loud for later dates now...if you cave and go with early openers in 19/20/21, the motivation to make a change won’t be as pressing. 
If the Bay guys are sick of losing days at the end of the season, they might be more open to supporting either a Boundary change or 4th Zone in a couple years...


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## cruiseplanner1 (Aug 6, 2012)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> i seen a ducks unlimited poll about season dates and it was comical. whoever put that together needs to NOT be in charge of anything duck hunting related.
> 
> fsamie, i'm not sure what planet you are from but maybe we can return you to it. i'll pay for the rocket ride.
> 
> ...


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## fsamie1 (Mar 8, 2008)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> i seen a ducks unlimited poll about season dates and it was comical. whoever put that together needs to NOT be in charge of anything duck hunting related.
> 
> fsamie, i'm not sure what planet you are from but maybe we can return you to it. i'll pay for the rocket ride.
> 
> last 3 season dates/starts/closes/splits have been best i've seen in all my years of duck hunting. The least amount of complaining in the last 15 years on here alone. Careful what you guys push for and eventually get...because it may swing back at you twice as hard if it is disliked and/or fails.


Hey Kid, can I have my own opinion, likes and dislikes that differ from yours? That is the way democracy works and people vote.


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## TNL (Jan 6, 2005)

fsamie1 said:


> Please bring up following hunter dislikes:
> 1. Posting kill charts at managed areas.
> 2. Allow mojo in all managed areas.
> 3. Limit managed area hunting to 20 times per person.
> ...


Ah, no. You don't speak for me. 

Kill charts actually help those of us who spend the time and gas scouting. People board scout and end up in unproductive fields over here on the west side. Leaves the X to those who did their homework.

Spinners are used in fields over here for ducks and usually don't interfere with neighbors. The smart hunters have them on remotes. Shiawassee is a different kind of hunt entirely. Of course, smart hunters know that.

Limit hunter visits? Tickets for sky busting? Shoot whatever you want, as long as it's six? What about 6 hen mallards? Good lord.


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## wavie (Feb 2, 2004)

Always perplexed why 2 days (late split) is such a sought after hunt. Unpressured birds which are usually congregated can make hunting much easier. Personally I would like to see 4 zones and do away with the split. If you think the 2 day split makes your season I think you need to reevaluate what your doing during the regular season.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

wavie said:


> Always perplexed why 2 days (late split) is such a sought after hunt. Unpressured birds which are usually congregated can make hunting much easier. Personally I would like to see 4 zones and do away with the split. If you think the 2 day split makes your season I think you need to reevaluate what your doing during the regular season.


It’s tradition. It’s always a great shoot and I look forward to it every year. I’m not willing to give it up.


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## Tunaman (Apr 17, 2006)

I would like to see m-46 across the state to be the dividing line for the middle and south zone


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## mkubiak (Feb 21, 2006)

One thing people don’t talk much about/consider is how many birds we get back when birds bounce or reverse migrate in southern Mi . Every year in late goose or anytime after an extended cold period we get covered up with in migratory flocks of mallards after a big freeze then thaw. 

A lot of times when we are absolutely loaded for the 2 day late season it is not because birds just made it down. It is a combo of the availability of open water, condensing of birds and/or reverse that has happened. 

It is the perfect storm of the wintering birds and maybe birds that came back. 

It is the freeze/thaw cycle that we see year after year now. 

It never gets cold and stays here south of I94. Just ask your ice fishing buddies. 

That is why most of us in the south would take a season that is open until Christmas. 

We lose a ton access due to firearms deer season as well. 

I totally get that it is expensive to flood mgmt units and every week that you lose to ice is $ down the drain. This is why 4 zones make sense. 

This is my .02 and I have been on late hunts where we have limited both and ducks/5 geese limit both days so I know what the late 2 day can be.


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## birdshooter (Jan 7, 2006)

I also have been fond of the split , a lot of things have to be in line for it to be a success.
As I get older I really could care less about shooting birds on these two days , what I do care about is it gives my crew a chance to get together for two days (after deer are done) talk about the season we had , talk about the holidays and our families, and try to plan our next adventures . 
If the birds show it just a small bonus , main thing is we’re all together enjoying and unwinding doing what we love .


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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

I’m happy with things just the way things are. Our numbers were up by 25 this year over last, with only 2 Friday hunts versus 6 last year. I think the split is great. Feast or famine. I don’t hunt it.
I’m curious as to why the late goose dates were pushed out?


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Jerry Lamb said:


> I’m happy with things just the way things are. Our numbers were up by 25 this year over last, with only 2 Friday hunts versus 6 last year. I think the split is great. Feast or famine. I don’t hunt it.
> I’m curious as to why the late goose dates were pushed out?


I believe late goose was pushed out because they said we were shooting too many migrants and not locals. Don’t quote me on that but I’m pretty sure that was the reason. Either way, the new dates suck and I quit hunting it.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

John Singer said:


> Because you did not slay any this season?


Exactly! LOL!

It's just not worth the money. Too few ducks.


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## R.J.M. (Jun 10, 2007)

“ if it’s not broken fix it till it is “


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

craigrh13 said:


> If I could only pick one month to hunt it would be November. The first 3 weeks of November are my favorite. More like the middle 2 weeks.


If I could only pick one month to hunt waterfowl, it would be March. The birds are in full breeding plumage. And it would be something cool to do after a long winter.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Spring break a couple years ago we stayed at the folks place in Pentwater. A creek flows into the lake a few houses down and had about a one acre opening around it. It was full of every kind of duck, all in full plume. I think at one point we counted 11 species. Scoter swimming with wigeon. Pinners and blue bills and hooded merggansers. Was crazy.


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## population control (Apr 18, 2009)

Froze out on the bay. Hear that yearly.
Sitting here right now watching mallards work a Corn field outside Fish point after trolling for walleye on the 6th of January. But we froze out 15th of November. Or so the tennis shoe hunters say.

Put the bay in zone 2. I’ll be more than happy to travel after zone 2 closes and encroach on other people in their little potholes and rivers on the west side of the state. Get some steelhead fishing in too while I’m there


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## population control (Apr 18, 2009)

Sebewaing River is wide open. But we once again were froze out by Thanksgiving.


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## duckbuster2 (Aug 14, 2008)

population control said:


> Sebewaing River is wide open. But we once again were froze out by Thanksgiving.


Did you go out of the river.


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

Many guys that have blinds on the Bay pull them by November 15. If they leave them in after that date they risk not being able to recover them due to ice.


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

population control said:


> Froze out on the bay. Hear that yearly.
> Sitting here right now watching mallards work a Corn field outside Fish point after trolling for walleye on the 6th of January. But we froze out 15th of November. Or so the tennis shoe hunters say.


Your observation is by no means unusual. Any Zone of our state will have locations with concentrations of birds after our seasons end. The birds are not being pressured. They concentrate on food and water sources.

Every season, people observe this and say that our season ended too soon. This has been going on long before the internet.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

John Singer said:


> Your observation is by no means unusual. Any Zone of our state will have locations with concentrations of birds after our seasons end. The birds are not being pressured. They concentrate on food and water sources.
> 
> Every season, people observe this and say that our season ended too soon. This has been going on long before the internet.



Well, part of the problem is lack of birds, when speaking of bluebills. They also do not come down as early as they did even in 2005, compared to now. There is also far less celery than there once was. There are not nearly as much pressure as there once wae. 

Things has changed. Shoot, much of the problem is the much greater numbers of fall fisherman than there once was, running through the rafts does not make them feel safe.


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## Lurker (Jan 25, 2009)

John Singer said:


> If I could only pick one month to hunt waterfowl, it would be March. The birds are in full breeding plumage. And it would be something cool to do after a long winter.


get a falcon.


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## lastflight (Aug 16, 2005)

Anyone have the notes from the meeting?


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

lastflight said:


> Anyone have the notes from the meeting?


Whatcha wanna know?


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