# DNR Crossbow Survey Results



## bersh (Dec 9, 2003)

The Michigan DNR recently published the results of a survey sent out to Michigan hunters that have used a crossbow to hunt deer.

Click Here to see the results of the survey.


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## boomer_x7 (Dec 19, 2008)

Very interesting. I remember getting into heated debates on the topic. Many members here made claims that crossbows were no different that a vertical bow. YET.....

At least 77% of the crossbow hunters agreed that in
comparison to other types of bows (1) crossbows were easier to use,

27% indicated using a crossbow had
increased the number of deer they took in the archery season

*Less than *30% of crossbow hunters stated they used
crossbows because it was either (1) more satisfying or (2) *more challenging *to hunt with
crossbows than other types of bows


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## skipper34 (Oct 13, 2005)

boomer_x7 said:


> Very interesting. I remember getting into heated debates on the topic. Many members here made claims that crossbows were no different that a vertical bow. YET.....
> 
> At least 77% of the crossbow hunters agreed that in
> comparison to other types of bows (1) crossbows were easier to use,
> ...


So what!


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## boomer_x7 (Dec 19, 2008)

skipper34 said:


> So what!


 
So ....... Its just funny how people try to lie about stuff.


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## aquanator (Dec 1, 2005)

Basically proof that allowing crossbows is a great success. I'll give the DNR credit for that, they clearly made a great call in allowing them.

I know there's still a few holdouts that won't agree with the facts, but it's nice to know the DNR still considers the facts instead of opinions when making these decisions.

Personally, I love my crossbow and would never go back to a vertical unless it was all I was allowed.


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

Personally I have never used a crossbow to hunt with but I have shot them at targets.

I found them easier to shoot than a vertical bow.
I found that it is easier to be a more proficient shot with a crossbow than a vertical.

I would say though, they are not any easier to hunt with than a vetical. You still have to get in range and pull the shot off. Movement is still required to be done without getting caught.

I would say that those who found them being more successful with the xbow over the vertical is because they are easier to be more accurate, without as much practice.

I'm glad we are able to use them if we want to.


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## KPC (Jan 29, 2000)

bucksnbows said:


> I would say that those who found them being more successful with the xbow over the vertical is because they are easier to be more accurate, without as much practice.


This and the fact that a crossbow allows for all the movement to be done prior to the deer being in range. Not so with a vertical bow. Even with a high let-off compound, the majorty of the movement (drawing the bow) must be done while the deer is in range or very close to it. Not so with a crossbow, making it more like hunting with a firearm in terms of movement.

KPC


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

The most dramatic stats are the ones that show how many more hunters are able to still go into the field. The same could be true of the average age shown.

Too bad they didn't do a survey for guys who still feel they need training wheels on their bows.  Now that would be interesting.


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

KPC said:


> This and the fact that a crossbow allows for all the movement to be done prior to the deer being in range. Not so with a vertical bow. Even with a high let-off compound, the majorty of the movement (drawing the bow) must be done while the deer is in range or very close to it. Not so with a crossbow, making it more like hunting with a firearm in terms of movement.
> 
> KPC


I agree with that. The hardest part of hunting with an arrow is getting them in range, with a optimal shot opportunity, and actually hitting them. Personally I have never had too much trouble with the "drawing part" of bow hunting, but more problems with getting that optimal shot opportunity. If I could solve that problem I would have a wall full of big bucks.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

aquanator said:


> I'll give the DNR credit for that, they clearly made a great call in allowing them..


It was the NRC not the MDNR. (It should be noted that the MDNR did not oppose the change.)


The NRC did not make the change willingly, And deserves ZERO credit for the benefits that have resulted.


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

KPC said:


> This and the fact that a crossbow allows for all the movement to be done prior to the deer being in range. Not so with a vertical bow. Even with a high let-off compound, the majorty of the movement (drawing the bow) must be done while the deer is in range or very close to it. Not so with a crossbow, making it more like hunting with a firearm in terms of movement.
> 
> KPC


So what? Who cares? It's archery season and the crossbow is archery equipment. 1/3 of the archery hunters in this state have moved over to it in the last few years. It will probably be half eventually like Ohio. Can't people just let it go?


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## Tracker83 (Jun 21, 2005)

KPC said:


> This and the fact that a crossbow allows for all the movement to be done prior to the deer being in range. Not so with a vertical bow. Even with a high let-off compound, the majorty of the movement (drawing the bow) must be done while the deer is in range or very close to it. Not so with a crossbow, making it more like hunting with a firearm in terms of movement.
> 
> KPC


I've hunted the past 2 seasons with a crossbow after hunting the previous 20 seasons with a vertical. I can say with certainty that your statement above is 100% false (at least when hunting in a tree). The amount of movement it takes to grab a hanging x-bow, swing it from a vertical to a horizontal position, and maneuver it into position is far more movement than simply drawing a vertical. I have found the crossbow to be extremely awkward and clunky to handle up in a treestand. I can, however, see a decent advantage for those hunting from the ground. The problem is that most guys form their opinion of crossbows by shooting 1/4" circles at 40 yards in someone's backyard. As most archers should already know, shooting backyard targets does not equal shooting a live animal in a hunting condition.


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## Gary Bontt (Jan 26, 2013)

Crossbows allow ****** hunters a better chance at killing a deer and to me is no different than a gun therefore only allow them during gun season. Not to mention all the 80yd shots wounded the deer. Idiots!!!


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## boomer_x7 (Dec 19, 2008)

brookie1 said:


> *So what? Who cares? It's archery season and the crossbow is archery equipment.* 1/3 of the archery hunters in this state have moved over to it in the last few years. It will probably be half eventually like Ohio. Can't people just let it go?


 
Exactly. Thats why im gonna strap one of these to a crossbow


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## boomer_x7 (Dec 19, 2008)

Tracker83 said:


> I've hunted the past 2 seasons with a crossbow after hunting the previous 20 seasons with a vertical. I can say with certainty that your statement above is 100% false (at least when hunting in a tree). The amount of movement it takes to grab a hanging x-bow, swing it from a vertical to a horizontal position, and maneuver it into position is far more movement than simply drawing a vertical. I have found the crossbow to be extremely awkward and clunky to handle up in a treestand. I can, however, see a decent advantage for those hunting from the ground. The problem is that most guys form their opinion of crossbows by shooting 1/4" circles at 40 yards in someone's backyard. As most archers should already know, shooting backyard targets does not equal shooting a live animal in a hunting condition.


 
Why dont you just put it on your lap.

If i hang a vertical bow sideways it takes the same proccess. If i leave it on the ground till a deer walks in, well.....


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## dialed-in (Feb 7, 2011)

brookie1 said:


> So what? Who cares? It's archery season and the crossbow is archery equipment. 1/3 of the archery hunters in this state have moved over to it in the last few years. It will probably be half eventually like Ohio. Can't people just let it go?


Actually a lot of people care! That's why people debate it. 


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

bersh said:


> The Michigan DNR recently published the results of a survey sent out to Michigan hunters that have used a crossbow to hunt deer.
> 
> Click Here to see the results of the survey.


No surprises there, pretty much confirms what I have said all along......and yes, I agree crossbows are legal, you're more then welcome to use them, has no impact on me..........but if you are an able bodied archer using a crossbow during bow season............well lets just say you're able bodied archer using a crossbow during bow season

Crossbows are here to stay and the percentage of people using them during bow season will continue to increase......unless somebody finds another way to hunt during bow season that requires even less commitment, practice, or skill and makes killing deer even easier.


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## melvvin (Nov 21, 2007)

One thing I have noticed since crossbows became legal is there are a whole lot more archery hunters in the area I hunt then there used to be before they were legal. I'm fine with it though, use what you want as long as its legal.


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## boomer_x7 (Dec 19, 2008)

2PawsRiver said:


> No surprises there, pretty much confirms what I have said all along......and yes, I agree crossbows are legal, you're more then welcome to use them, has no impact on me..........but if you are an able bodied archer using a crossbow during bow season............well lets just say you're able bodied archer using a crossbow during bow season
> 
> *Crossbows are here to stay and the percentage of people using them during bow season will continue to increase......unless somebody finds another way to hunt during bow season that requires even less commitment, practice, or skill and makes killing deer even easier*.


 
Bingo!!!


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

*Compounds are here to stay and the percentage of people using them during bow season will continue to increase......unless somebody finds another way to hunt during bow season that requires even less commitment, practice, or skill and makes killing deer even easier.*

Popular point of view from the 1980's, yet the dire predictions of doom and gloom have yet to come true. :lol:


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## Chad1981 (Dec 20, 2011)

22 years here. Kill big bucks every year. First deer was 8 point 19 3/4 in side spread and have yet to beat it. First bow was a Ben Pearson 


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

Tracker83 said:


> Put that thing in any ole yuk's hands and let him pull the trigger and shazam - you've got yourself a gunhunter.


You want to bet......I won' tell you what diameter ball, how thick of a patch, how many grains of powder or where to hold......you won't be a gun hunter......you'll be a muzzle loader shooter.


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## Riva (Aug 10, 2006)

The survey is interesting and pretty much what just about expected, or for some, were horrified, to accept. The bottom line, hunter opportunity was expanded and to debate the efficacy and functionality of crossbow versus something else is, in my opinion, pointless at this juncture. 

In retrospect, this survey would never had seen the light of day had certain reactionary organizations been the slightest bit flexible when the discussion to redefine the medical criteria that allowed a person with a disability to hunt game with a crossbow. These groups not only wanted to reject any loosening of the criteria, they, in fact, worked tirelessly to make the then current criteria even more stringent. Had they been the slightest bit flexible in this arena, the NRC would, in my opinion, have given them anything they wanted. And, full inclusion, as we now enjoy, would have never even been put up for discussion in this State. 

However, their intolerance was also their doom. Many, even those within their own organization, finally saw how specious, cruel and bigoted such a stance regarding persons having a medical disability really was and said, "Enough!" After all, we were talking about reducing the definition of a 80% medical disability to a 65% level. They, wanted to make it 90% and make one go through all kinds of administrative tasks as well. "Enough!"

Shortly after that shameful episode, the discussion regarding full inclusion began, first in the Legislature and later, begrudgingly, by the NRC. During this time, the sentence that changed the world was scribed; "It is the opinion of the Wildlife Division (of the DNR) that the use of crossbows would not have a negative effect upon wildlife." With that profound sentence, any argument against the full inclusion of crossbows became moot. The NRC was forced to act, knowing that if the did not, the legislature most certainly would. 

Note: A former moderator on this site who, like myself and some other on this site, was gigantically involved in the effort for full inclusion, has stated that he plans to write a book about the entire experience. I hope he does because it really was/is a good story, start to finish.


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## dan d (Aug 26, 2009)

I am not going to get into the debate, but after one year (the first year allowed & using an old wooden stock horton I found in the antique shop) I went all the way back to traditional archery (no sights, no training wheels) so I get some satisfaction of doing it the hard way. & Yes I'm saying there was no satisfaction in using a crossbow, it's too easy. 

Dan


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## Riva (Aug 10, 2006)

dan d said:


> I am not going to get into the debate, but after one year (the first year allowed & using an old wooden stock horton I found in the antique shop) I went all the way back to traditional archery (no sights, no training wheels) so I get some satisfaction of doing it the hard way. & Yes I'm saying there was no satisfaction in using a crossbow, it's too easy.
> 
> Dan


Again, to each his/her own. The bigger issue however, is you had a "choice" whereas previously, your choices were made for you by others.

Incidentally, that wood stock Horton was probably a Super Sport model. I bought one in 1993 and still use it today. It is my favorite crossbow.


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## dan d (Aug 26, 2009)

Riva said:


> Again, to each his/her own. The bigger issue however, is you had a "choice" whereas previously, your choices were made for you by others.
> 
> Incidentally, that wood stock Horton was probably a Super Sport model. I bought one in 1993 and still use it today. It is my favorite crossbow.


I agree on the freedom of choice.

My Horton was older as it didn't have wheels, it was an oldie, but very accurate at 20 yards. It started to run out of steam after that, but it was good enough to harvest a buck & 2 mature does in one weekend. That's when I realized I needed a challenge for my own personal satisfaction. 

Dan


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## dialed-in (Feb 7, 2011)

boomer_x7 said:


> If injury or physical degeneration is a factor.... You could have gotten a crossbow permit when they where not full inclusion...


X2


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## Tracker83 (Jun 21, 2005)

2PawsRiver said:


> You want to bet......I won' tell you what diameter ball, how thick of a patch, how many grains of powder or where to hold......you won't be a gun hunter......you'll be a muzzle loader shooter.


Wait, you mean to tell me there's more to hunting than pointing a weapon and pulling the trigger??? Thanks for proving my point!!!!


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## Chad1981 (Dec 20, 2011)

Ya know I used to come to this site and like talking to other sportsman. There isn't many anymore. All the slamming on each other is bull ****. I'm out grow up 


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## boomer_x7 (Dec 19, 2008)

Tracker83 said:


> Wait, you mean to tell me there's more to hunting than* pointing a weapon and pulling the trigger???* Thanks for proving my point!!!!


Yet a crossbow is just one step closer to the stated.....


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## boomer_x7 (Dec 19, 2008)

Chad1981 said:


> Ya know I used to come to this site and like talking to other sportsman. There isn't many anymore. All the slamming on each other is bull ****. I'm out grow up
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Who is slamming anyone? I have seen any name calling, slander ect. towards anyone.... Just because we are having a healthy debate about crossbows doesnt mean anyone (including crossbow users:lol arnt sportsman....What the hell is a forums purpose?


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

Tracker83 said:


> Wait, you mean to tell me there's more to hunting than pointing a weapon and pulling the trigger??? Thanks for proving my point!!!!


If your point was that it takes more skill to hunt with my muzzle loader then it does with a crossbow, then I agree and your welcome.



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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

Tracker83 said:


> I've hunted the past 2 seasons with a crossbow after hunting the previous 20 seasons with a vertical. I can say with certainty that your statement above is 100% false (at least when hunting in a tree). The amount of movement it takes to grab a hanging x-bow, swing it from a vertical to a horizontal position, and maneuver it into position is far more movement than simply drawing a vertical. I have found the crossbow to be extremely awkward and clunky to handle up in a treestand. I can, however, see a decent advantage for those hunting from the ground. The problem is that most guys form their opinion of crossbows by shooting 1/4" circles at 40 yards in someone's backyard. As most archers should already know, shooting backyard targets does not equal shooting a live animal in a hunting condition.


I agree.

I am much more accurate with a crossbow but there is a lot more movement involved in getting it to the shoulder and on target than with a compound.

Still, the accuracy thing makes the difference for me. 

I feel comfortable with a 30-35 yard shot with the crossbow vs. a 22-25 yard shot with the compound. So it extends my confidence range. That makes up for the downsides.


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

My first post on this site was about my opinion against xbows being full inclusion. I was against them all the way through first year of them being allowed.
Once I realized my fears were not a fact, the sky didn't fall, I started to think about how my son could start hunting earlier in life during the archery season with an xbow if he wasn't strong enough to pull enough weight to ethically hunt with a compound. I also thought about how one day I may not be able to pull enough weight to ethically kill a deer with a compound, not because of a physical disability .....just old age.
For those reasons I am glad we have them.
I was only against them because I thought it would of made archery season a chaotic mess like our firearm season. I was wrong.

One thing I will always stand by and I believe it has already been stated is......xbows are easier to shoot. Maybe that makes hunting with one easier than with a compound ......I really don't know, but I don't deny that is what I think.
The 40 yard gun IMO pretty much sums it up.
But in the end the actual hunt of the animal is the true challenge. Its kind of hard to kill what you can't see reguardless of what weapon you have. 

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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

boomer_x7 said:


> Who is slamming anyone? I have seen any name calling, slander ect. towards anyone.... Just because we are having a healthy debate about crossbows doesnt mean anyone (including crossbow users:lol arnt sportsman....What the hell is a forums purpose?


X2.....not slamming anybody, I have my opinions and views and others have there's that are different then mine.........I don't mind a bit that they are wrong.

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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

2PawsRiver said:


> .......I don't mind a bit that they are wrong.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


LOL. 



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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

boomer_x7 said:


> So ....... Its just funny how people try to lie about stuff.


If you are talking about people or a group that lied when this debate was taken to the NRC, look no further than the Michigan Bow Hunters. I was a member back then, no longer as I quickly learned how little the truth meant to the group.

L & O


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## CHILLEM2KILLEM (Mar 16, 2011)

boomer_x7 said:


> Who is slamming anyone? I have seen any name calling, slander ect. towards anyone.... Just because we are having a healthy debate about crossbows doesnt mean anyone (including crossbow users:lol arnt sportsman....What the hell is a forums purpose?




Never try to get personnal nor do I take it personally.
Just an opportunity for an occasional _touche!_

:mischeif:

Kinda like standing around the campfire at deer camp.
No one is immune to the ribbing.


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

2PawsRiver said:


> Taking a deer with a crossbow rates just a bit below hitting one with your truck on the way out to hunt.


If it is so easy why did I lose the first deer I ever shot at with a crossbow from 17 yards due to an unseen goldenrod stalk deflecting the arrow?


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## boomer_x7 (Dec 19, 2008)

Liver and Onions said:


> If you are talking about people or a group that lied when this debate was taken to the NRC, look no further than the Michigan Bow Hunters. I was a member back then, no longer as I quickly learned how little the truth meant to the group.
> 
> L & O


Not at all. I was refering to other threads (while back) where many people have went on and on about how crossbows where not any easier to kill a deer with, shoot, ect..


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## Hunter.Bourne (Dec 11, 2012)

cakebaker said:


> I respectfully disagree with this statement. Not only do you have to get a vertical bow up into position, you also have to draw it and then aim.....all while going undetected. Pulling a pre-loaded weapon up to your shoulder w/ a trigger and gun stock is hardly the same. They're easier, which is why those w/o a disability use them. That being said, I'm not against those that use them, just those that conjure up excuses as to why they do so.
> 
> She was slowing me down.


 

Its the difference of using a remote for a tv or having to get up and change the channel on the tv itself. A crossbow is not a bow its a gun.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. That made me LoL.

She was slowing me down.


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## dialed-in (Feb 7, 2011)

Hunter.Bourne said:


> Its the difference of using a remote for a tv or having to get up and change the channel on the tv itself. A crossbow is not a bow its a gun.


Agreed. That made me LoL.

She was slowing me down.[/QUOTE]

X3

A vertical bow is a vertical bow, you still have to pull them back on a target in the same fashion. A preloaded Xbow is a totally different weapon that is much easier to be accurate with(on targets and game)!


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## N.E. Outdoorsman (Sep 18, 2006)

2PawsRiver said:


> I agree, runs in line with "Santa" whatever reality you want your son to believe is your busines, and how you raise your son is your business.
> 
> If the object is simply have a son kill a deer, then the crossbow may be the fit and sadly that is the route many take.
> 
> ...


2 Paws,
I wrote you a P.M.


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

Hunter.Bourne said:


> there is a lot more movement involved in getting it to the shoulder and on target than with a compound..
> 
> I respectfully disagree with this statement. Not only do you have to get a vertical bow up into position, you also have to draw it and then aim.....all while going undetected. Pulling a pre-loaded weapon up to your shoulder w/ a trigger and gun stock is hardly the same. They're easier, which is why those w/o a disability use them. That being said, I'm not against those that use them, just those that conjure up excuses as to why they do so.
> 
> She was slowing me down.


You are not just pulling it up to your shoulder, you are swinging the big bulky weight forward thing some distance which creates a very noticeable profile. When you are in a tree stand with a crossbow, you are thinking about that problem a lot. 

I will say without question that the crossbow is "easier" for me to use because I can hit the target more accurately and consistently at greater distances with it than I can with my compound bow.

I know this because I practice a lot with the crossbow and every time I do I take an equal number of shots with my compound bow. There is no chance I will ever be able to shoot the compound bow as accurately as I can the crossbow, no matter how much I practice.

With all that said, there is no comparison when it comes to the profile you produce when getting the bulky, heavy weight forward crossbow up on target.

The raising the bow and drawing it thing being an advantage is, in my view, something you would probably not say if you have hunted much with the crossbow. The only exception would be the many guys I see who have their bows set for too high a poundage for them to handle. They have to contort themselves to draw but that is their own bad choice. A properly set bow should produce a completely stress free, fluid draw. 

Getting the crossbow up on target is not the advantage. The advantage, for me at least, is a much higher degree of accuracy and repeatability because I am able to create more stability by resting it against my shoulder. I spend about 95% of my time in a tree stand so all shots are free hand.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

bioactive said:


> You are not just pulling it up to your shoulder, you are swinging the big bulky weight forward thing some distance which creates a very noticeable profile. When you are in a tree stand with a crossbow, you are thinking about that problem a lot.
> ......................
> ... there is no comparison when it comes to the profile you produce when getting the bulky, heavy weight forward crossbow up on target.
> ...................


Do you have some type of muscle disease ?

L & O


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## Riva (Aug 10, 2006)

Lots said here about the "difficulty" between a crossbow versus a vertical bow while deer hunting. To me, these arguments are the equivalent of some famous, argumentative, product slogans; " Tastes great. Less filling" (Miller Lite Beer) , "It's a breath mint. It's a candy Mint" (Certs).

To me, the supreme argument regarding "difficulty" can be, once and for all, summarize quite simply and specifically:

*"Crossbows are difficult to use while deer hunting, when you ,categorically, do not have a choice to use one."
*
Alternately: 

_*"Crossbows are not difficult to use while deer hunting, when you, indeed, have a choice to use one." 

*_Gotta see the bigger picture, kids! _
_


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

I dont have a problem deploying a compound or a crossbow. I can shot 40yrds with either. I havent shot my compound since early bow season and bet I could go out and be in the zone on the first shot. The hunting, not the shooting, should be the challenge. I beleive as young hunters come into the crossbow ranks the succes ratio between compounds and crossbows will become closer. Everyone I know that uses a crossbow currently is an experienced former bow hunter. The older hunters that I know that have switched to crossbows have had a nearly zero wounding rate. As a teacher I had a lot of interaction with begining bow hunters and beleive the wounding to recovery rate was less than 50%. If inexperienced hunters start with a crossbow hey will make the same learning mistakes made by other bow hunters.


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## Gary Bontt (Jan 26, 2013)

However I have never used a crossbow but I also think it has let the wrong people in the woods.


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## ridgewalker (Jun 24, 2008)

Gary Bontt said:


> However I have never used a crossbow but I also think it has let the wrong people in the woods.


Please explain: who are those "wrong people in the woods"?

I have seen some wrong people in the woods but their presence had nothing to do with crossbows or archery hunting. It had to do with their slob behavior in trashing the woods and in having no respect for anyone else in the woods.


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

ridgewalker said:


> Please explain: who are those "wrong people in the woods"?
> 
> I have seen some wrong people in the woods but their presence had nothing to do with crossbows or archery hunting. It had to do with their slob behavior in trashing the woods and in having no respect for anyone else in the woods.


I know one. He hunted for one season with a crossbow. Shot a big buck in the shoulder from 25 yards, never recovered it, found the arrow 70 yards away with about 2 inches of blood on it, and never picked up the crossbow again because he realized it was not a gun.:lol:

As plugger said. You have to go through the same learning mistakes. It comes with the territory when you are trying to shoot a deer with a sharp stick flung with a string.:lol:


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## KPC (Jan 29, 2000)

The "profile" isn't the issue, it's the movement. With a crossbow, the movement can be done a lot sooner. (getting in position that is, the "bow" has already been drawn) With a vertical bow, alll the movent happens at the time of the shot. You have to lift the bow, extend the bow arm, and draw the bow, resulting in movement and often noise.

Much of what is passed off as a bad shot, really wasn't. It was a good shot in that the arrow went exactly where it was aimed... had the deer not been alerted to the movement/noise, and therefore wired.

How long can a hunter stay in this position, if he just drops his elbow to his knee...










Compared to how long a hunter can stay in this position...










Or harder yet...












KPC


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## Rut-N-Strut (Apr 8, 2001)

All of my tree stands and ladder stands have shooting rails, or I use a shooting stick. Also it allows shooting from 4 box blinds that were only suitable for gun hunting before.

___________________________________________________________


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## standsetter (Dec 2, 2007)

bioactive said:


> You are not just pulling it up to your shoulder, you are swinging the big bulky weight forward thing some distance which creates a very noticeable profile. When you are in a tree stand with a crossbow, you are thinking about that problem a lot.
> 
> I will say without question that the crossbow is "easier" for me to use because I can hit the target more accurately and consistently at greater distances with it than I can with my compound bow.
> 
> ...


The whole "more motion, more difficult" argument is silly in my opinion. It would be similar to saying long arms are a disadvantage in comparison to short arms. A deer is going to see either equally well if the hunter doesn't understand how and when to move them.

Any hunter who chooses one method over another because accuracy is increased has made a good decision in my book. No apologies or excuses required. Any hunter who chooses one method over another because time or dedication doesn't allow for proficiency not only made a good choice but a wise one as well.

Wise to be good? Or, Good to be wise? Either is fine with me. I wouldn't have a problem with a child learning either way. I'll leave the moral dilemma and angst for sportsmen like TwoJaws to hash out for themselves. :evil:


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

Gary Bontt said:


> However I have never used a crossbow but I also think it has let the wrong people in the woods.


Wow, lol. The humorous part of that response is that over 100,000 of those "wrong people" were previously using some type of vertical archery equipment, so they were already in the woods. More and more I am really thankful that I don't associate on a regular basis with anyone who hunts. I know a couple people that share similar values and that's it. It's embarrassing to be associated with of a group that thinks like people on this thread.


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

Tracker83 said:


> Why don't all of the compound hunters stop making excuses and just admit that they use a compound because they are too lazy to take the time to be proficient with traditional equipment? Afterall, any healthy able bodied bowhunter that is not using traditional equipment is just a lazy slob.


This deserves a bump to the front.


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

I think to make it all fair... no arrow flinging weapon should be drawn until the animal is with in range...


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## KPC (Jan 29, 2000)

Tracker83 said:


> Why don't all of the compound hunters stop making excuses and just admit that they use a compound because they are too lazy to take the time to be proficient with traditional equipment? Afterall, any healthy able bodied bowhunter that is not using traditional equipment is just a lazy slob.













:lol:

KPC


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

KPC said:


> The "profile" isn't the issue, it's the movement. With a crossbow, the movement can be done a lot sooner. (getting in position that is, the "bow" has already been drawn) With a vertical bow, alll the movent happens at the time of the shot. You have to lift the bow, extend the bow arm, and draw the bow, resulting in movement and often noise.
> 
> Much of what is passed off as a bad shot, really wasn't. It was a good shot in that the arrow went exactly where it was aimed... had the deer not been alerted to the movement/noise, and therefore wired.
> 
> How long can a hunter stay in this position, if he just drops his elbow to his knee...


The only problem with this theory is that I can hold my 80% let-off compound bow at full draw on target longer than I can hold my crossbow on target. Try it sometime. By design most crossbows are very heavy at the front end. You cannot hold one free hand in shooting position very long without getting shaky. 

As I said, I always practice with both and have hunted with both so I have some idea of the comparison. 

I will choose the crossbow every time because I am more proficient with it. But I find it amusing that you guys come up with these theories about why it is "easier," while most of you are using a tricked out 80% let-off ultra-featherweight, pulley and cable rigged micro-length bow with a peep sight, stabilizers, trigger release, light amplifying pin to shoot high tech carbon arrows with state of the art mechanical blades all the while criticizing others for taking the "easy" route. :lol:

Unless you are using a wooden stick with a string attached please do not try to eek out nuances of why one legal ultra refined weapon designed to make things "easier" is more "challenging" than another just so you can put down your fellow hunters for doing exactly what you are doing, which is everything you can to make things easier.


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## tdduckman (Jan 17, 2001)

Has anyone mentioned the fact that while it may be easier to become proficient with a crossbow that this fact means that many less deer will be wounded and not recovered. There are people who do not have the time to become proficient with a Traditional bow; I would prefer them to use a tool that they can be proficient with. I gave up bow hunting because I did not have the time to practice and make sure I could always hit what I was shooting at. I purchased a Crossbow and have spent the time required to be a good shot. 

The number of deer no longer lost to poor bow hunters switching to crossbows I think is greater than the number of extra deer taken by folks who become archery season hunters. 


It is better for Hunters to be seen as competent by the non-hunting public and I think that allowing people to choose a weapon that they can be proficient with is key. 


The fewer stories I see posted on gut shot lost deer the better I feel


TD


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

bioactive said:


> The only problem with this theory is that I can hold my 80% let-off compound bow at full draw on target longer than I can hold my crossbow on target. Try it sometime. By design most crossbows are very heavy at the front end. You cannot hold one free hand in shooting position very long without getting shaky.
> 
> As I said, I always practice with both and have hunted with both so I have some idea of the comparison.
> 
> ...


I agree with you that it is a very fine line, and quite frankly that line varies a great deal from hunter to hunter. The hard part is balancing effectiveness with at least trying to stay true to the intent of the season.

I guess I view it a lot the way I view the fish netting by the Indians. I believe the purpose of allowing Indians to net, was to preserve their heritage and I agree with that completely, however their heritage did not include power boats, nylon nets, hydrolics etc.........and when I view Indians netting I don't support and do most, and primarily because they have bastardized the intent.

I just think the view now is not to preserve any type of hunting heritage or tradition, but to just make things as easy as possible and sell licenses.....and I don't think my concern is just about bow hunting, but hunting in general.

We would all agree the majority of the population does not hunt, but my experience is that the majority of non-hunters still view hunters and hunting positively as a skill........................they view hunters as a guy that enjoys and has knowledge about the outdoors, has a commitment to a skill....sounds corny, but a bit of Daniel Boone or Grizzly Adams...........and as such they support hunting.

When the non hunting populace figures out that for many a hunter is a guy that drives his truck to a heated box overlooking a field of clover and shooting a deer when it comes to eat...............or that the average bow hunter, is just a guy that does the same thing with a bow, and really doesn't have the skill, commitment, knowlege or compassion...........then I think the non hunting populace could become a threat to hunting in general.

Just to clarify........not painting everybody with a broad brush, but quite frankly there is a growing percentage of hunters, short of a GPS wouldn't even know how to navigate through the woods, that as a hunting populace the attention is on how easy we can do this, without any thought to maintaining a skill.

Won't effect me, I don't think they will figure it out before I kick the bucket, but unless somebody and few do, take the time to try and preserve the skilled, knowledgeable outdoors-man aspect of hunting.....they will figure it out......heck many of us here already have.


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

I love that many of the arguments are the same as they were when compound bows were introduced::lol:

Sports Illustrated October 31st 1977: LINK



> *Detractors argue that because an arrow shot from the compound has more speed, a flatter trajectory and greater accuracy than one from the longbow, the compound should be placed in the same category as a firearm.*
> 
> "Several of my friends who are bow hunters," says Mike Kennedy, ex-sports editor of the Anchorage Daily Times, "argue that the compound bow takes much of the sport out of hunting, that it has increased tremendously the number of game animals killed, that *the compound bow is attracting people to the sport who are more interested in the kill than in primitive hunting.*"


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## miruss (Apr 18, 2003)

bioactive said:


> The only problem with this theory is that I can hold my 80% let-off compound bow at full draw on target longer than I can hold my crossbow on target. Try it sometime. By design most crossbows are very heavy at the front end. You cannot hold one free hand in shooting position very long without getting shaky.
> 
> As I said, I always practice with both and have hunted with both so I have some idea of the comparison.
> 
> ...


Can't believe i'm agreeing with bio if they didn't want to take such a easy way out they would use one of these 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VlOpwsj09c"]How to use an Atlatl - YouTube[/ame]


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

sjk984 said:


> I have been to qdm meetings were they talked about xbows. Their views reflect yours. Find a way to keep people out of the woods in the name of big rack management.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Regardless of what you may have heard someone say at a regional meeting, the QDMA has clearly stated their support for crossbow use on page 15 of their 2012 Whitetail Report:












> *QDMAs Recommendations*
> The QDMA is dedicated to ensuring
> the future of white-tailed deer, wildlife
> habitat and our hunting heritage. As such,
> ...


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

It was down right fun to hunt with my wife this year as she used her xbow for her first time ever deer hunting. We sat in a blind and several times she drew up up on does for practise with out ever getting busted.
She has no desire to hunt with a gun in the colder months but really loved being in the woods deer hunting in October.
I can still see the smile on the face of my best friends daughter every time we talk about her first bow kill this year using an x bow.
I know an older gentleman who would never bow hunt because he was afraid he just wasnt a good enough shot with a regular bow. But now he gets to enjoy archery season with his xbow.
At one time i was against these things because i thought it would limit my oppurtunity but boy was i ever wrong.
Glad to see them become legal.


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## KPC (Jan 29, 2000)

bioactive said:


> The only problem with this theory is that I can hold my 80% let-off compound bow at full draw on target longer than I can hold my crossbow on target. Try it sometime. By design most crossbows are very heavy at the front end. You cannot hold one free hand in shooting position very long without getting shaky.



That's nice and everything but we *both* know *"free hand"* is not what I said.



KPC said:


> How long can a hunter stay in this position, if he *just drops his elbow to his knee...*


Most people can't hold a rifle on target free hand for very long without getting shaky. Does that mean it's not easier either? That's what shooting sticks, rails, knees, and elbows are for. Does that mean rifles aren't easeir either? 

Simply put, if you think lifting a stock a couple inches off your knee and pulling a trigger is as conspicuous or as potentially noisy as extending a bow with one arm and drawing with the other, (while the game is in shooting range no less) you are either delusional or you simply cannot bring yourself to admit you are wrong. I suspect the latter is the case. 





bioactive said:


> But I find it amusing that you guys come up with these theories about why it is "easier," while most of you are using a tricked out 80% let-off ultra-featherweight, pulley and cable rigged micro-length bow with a peep sight, stabilizers, trigger release, light amplifying pin to shoot high tech carbon arrows with state of the art mechanical blades all the while criticizing others for taking the "easy" route. :lol:
> 
> Unless you are using a wooden stick with a string attached please do not try to eek out nuances of why one legal ultra refined weapon designed to make things "easier" is more "challenging" than another just so you can put down your fellow hunters for doing exactly what you are doing, which is everything you can to make things easier.


First, nobody is putting down any other hunters, at least I'm certainly not. Total red herring...as usual. The question here is *not* whether crossbows are good, whether they're right, whether or not they should be allowed in archery season, are even whether or not they are even archery equipment. They question is, are they easier than a vetical bow to harvest a deer with, and if so why? 

Second, some of us *do* just use a "stick" with a string on it. They might not be all wood, but there is no difference between a wooden stick and string, a fiberglass stick and string, a carbon stick and string, or any other kind of stick and string when it comes to the motion required to shoot one A selfbow and a modern recurve require the exact same mechanics to lift, draw and release. Even a compound is the same motion, it's just that you have a little longer to hold at full draw. Is one easier than the other...yep. Is that a bad thing...nope. To each his own. 

In a nutshell, a verical bow, traditional or modern, requires a totally different, and *much less* conspicuous motion (especially at the time of the shot) than that of a crossbow or rifle. If a deer detects that motion or noise, no amount of carbon dust is going to help you.

If you're walking through the woods and pass by one guy (@ 20 yards) that is well camo'd and standing still against the trunk of a tree, and another guy that is dressed the same way, standing against another tree, same distance, only this one waives his arms, which one would you think would be easier to pick off?



KPC


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

85% let off, pin sights with levels, peep sights, kisser buttons and a release is not hard to master. I know I can pick up almost anyones right handed compound and within a few shots be accurate enough to kill a deer at what most consider an ethical shot distance. The only reason most guys use compounds is because it is easier than a recurve or long bow. It is a bow with training wheels. Not much difference than a crossbow, all the reasons for making the switch are the same.


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## Rut-N-Strut (Apr 8, 2001)

bioactive said:


> The only problem with this theory is that I can hold my 80% let-off compound bow at full draw on target longer than I can hold my crossbow on target. Try it sometime. By design most crossbows are very heavy at the front end. You cannot hold one free hand in shooting position very long without getting shaky.
> 
> As I said, I always practice with both and have hunted with both so I have some idea of the comparison.


In an open cottonwood tree that I have on the edge of a food plot, I have had my X-Bow up to my shoulder for 2 hrs straight while deer are in the plot using a shooting stick.


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## KPC (Jan 29, 2000)

Rut-N-Strut said:


> In an open cottonwood tree that I have on the edge of a food plot, I have had my X-Bow up to my shoulder for 2 hrs straight while deer are in the plot using a shooting stick.


How in the heck did you get those deer to use a shooting stick?

Sorry Rut, couldn't resist.

:lol::lol::lol:

I know what you mean though and you are totally correct. Not a whole heck of a lot of hunters can hold even an 85% letoff compound in shooting position, at full draw, for two *minutes*...and then make the shot.



KPC


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## Rut-N-Strut (Apr 8, 2001)

KPC said:


> How in the heck did you get those deer to use a shooting stick?
> 
> Sorry Rut, couldn't resist.
> 
> ...


After I re-read it, it does sound like that don't it?:lol::lol::lol:


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## Gary Bontt (Jan 26, 2013)

brookie1 said:


> Wow, lol. The humorous part of that response is that over 100,000 of those "wrong people" were previously using some type of vertical archery equipment, so they were already in the woods. More and more I am really thankful that I don't associate on a regular basis with anyone who hunts. I know a couple people that share similar values and that's it. It's embarrassing to be associated with of a group that thinks like people on this thread.


You're the one that started it.


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## boomer_x7 (Dec 19, 2008)

tdduckman said:


> Has anyone mentioned the fact that while it may be easier to become proficient with a crossbow that this fact means that many less deer will be wounded and not recovered. There are people who do not have the time to become proficient with a Traditional bow; I would prefer them to use a tool that they can be proficient with. I gave up bow hunting because I did not have the time to practice and make sure I could always hit what I was shooting at. I purchased a Crossbow and have spent the time required to be a good shot.
> 
> *The number of deer no longer lost to poor bow hunters switching to crossbows* I think is greater than the number of extra deer taken by folks who become archery season hunters.
> 
> ...


Another fine example of making it easier for the lazy.... Don't require them tobecome hunters.... Lets make it easier for them....


Whats funny is i hear about more people wounding deer with a crossbow from taking "long" shots" or going with the "its a crossbow... it'll punch through" mentality than all other bows combined. 

If anything i woud say there is more deer wounded since crossbows went full inclusion.Not only do you have the normal hunters making poor shots with either bows NOW we have a whole new group of "hunters" joining b/c of crossbow legalization. (not to mention all the hunters being brought into sport that spent 5 minutes in the back yard before their first hunt.)


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## KPC (Jan 29, 2000)

boomer_x7 said:


> Another fine example of making it easier for the lazy.... Don't require them to become hunters.... Lets make it easier for them....


Ya know...you could almost say the same thing about making it easier for people to get a mature...

Nah, that's different.

:lol:

KPC


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## halfczech (Nov 27, 2004)

I can put my compound away and not shoot it for months. I then can take my compound out in the yard and go back from my block target 20yrds and put t my first arrow in the bullseye or right next to it. A modern compound is very easy to shoot and so is a crossbow. During the summer I shoot my compound some days and my crossbow on other days. I love shooting both of them. I do believe its easier to shoot a deer with my crossbow but since the deer has to be close no matter what bow I use its still very rewarding.


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## RMH (Jan 17, 2009)

2PawsRiver said:


> I agree with you that it is a very fine line, and quite frankly that line varies a great deal from hunter to hunter. The hard part is balancing effectiveness with at least trying to stay true to the intent of the season.
> 
> I guess I view it a lot the way I view the fish netting by the Indians. I believe the purpose of allowing Indians to net, was to* preserve their heritage *and I agree with that completely, however their heritage did not include power boats, nylon nets, hydrolics etc.........and when I view Indians netting I don't support and do most, and primarily because they have bastardized the intent.
> 
> ...


Yesterday and todays Indians hunt and fish to "kill" for food and money and do what ever it takes to get the job done.




































*We hunt and fish for recreation.* It is funny how you try to demean people for enjoying there recreation legally.


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## tdduckman (Jan 17, 2001)

boomer_x7 said:


> Another fine example of making it easier for the lazy.... Don't require them tobecome hunters.... Lets make it easier for them....
> 
> 
> Whats funny is i hear about more people wounding deer with a crossbow from taking "long" shots" or going with the "its a crossbow... it'll punch through" mentality than all other bows combined.
> ...


I respectfully disagree, I do not think making archery hunting as difficult as possible is in the resources best interest. There has to be a balance between being able to be functional with the tools and making it sporting. The number of deer wounded and not recovered by archers is too high in my opinion. This is mostly because they over estimate their abilities and take shots they shouldnt. I think Crossbows reduces this, and still allows for more people to particpate in Archery season

There is no evidence that the number of new particpants has hurt the resource and the number of hunters retained looks good. The only reason I see for people to object to Crossbows is that they see more hunters as competeing for "their deer" 


Since I did not allow bow hunters on my property before crossbows I do not see how my using a crossbow now impacts your activity 


TD


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## dialed-in (Feb 7, 2011)

tdduckman said:


> I respectfully disagree, I do not think making archery hunting as difficult as possible is in the resources best interest. There has to be a balance between being able to be functional with the tools and making it sporting. The number of deer wounded and not recovered by archers is too high in my opinion. This is mostly because they over estimate their abilities and take shots they shouldnt. I think Crossbows reduces this, and still allows for more people to particpate in Archery season
> TD


Making the archery season as difficult as possible? Really? It's always been evolving.

This is the problem with society today, everything is too hard! No one wants to work for anything and all of our kids are being taught the same way! Future looks great for the sport


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## tdduckman (Jan 17, 2001)

dialed-in said:


> Making the archery season as difficult as possible? Really? It's always been evolving.
> 
> This is the problem with society today, everything is too hard! No one wants to work for anything and all of our kids are being taught the same way! Future looks great for the sport
> 
> ...


 
So you get to decide what is challenging enough for everyone or should the choice of the archery equipment be left to the user to decide what they can be accurate with?


I think the people have spoken on this and the sky has not fallen.

I think the resource will be better for it.


TD


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## dialed-in (Feb 7, 2011)

tdduckman said:


> So you get to decide what is challenging enough for everyone or should the choice of the archery equipment be left to the user to decide what they can be accurate with?
> 
> 
> I think the people have spoken on this and the sky has not fallen.
> ...


If its within the law, knock yourself out. Whatever makes you happy! Up until a few years ago, only handicapped or special permit could use them! The sky wasn't falling WAY back then either. Give me a break. 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## FullQuiver (May 2, 2006)

dialed-in said:


> Up until a few years ago, only handicapped or special permit could use them! The sky wasn't falling WAY back then either. Give me a break.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


That's unless you where one of those people who couldn't meet the unbelievably high standards set by the DNR along with MBH's guidance. Then you just couldn't hunt at all because people wanted to protect their "deer" from the big bad crossbow people. Give me a break. 

Certainly crossbows are easier, but just as certainly so are today's compounds. It makes me sick when I see hunters knocking other hunters because of what they hunt with. I've hunted long enough to see the evolution from mostly recurves and longbows to what we have today. I killed my first half a dozen deer with a Loomis recurve and cedar arrows. If not for a bout with brain cancer I would still be hunting with a vertical bow today, but to hunt and to do justice to the animals I hunt I need a crossbow to do it, I am just too weak anymore to hunt without one. Yet I wouldn't have met the standards that where set before full inclusion.


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## dialed-in (Feb 7, 2011)

Not sure how "high" the standards were, as I knew of at least 3 guys that had doctors sign bogus excuses? Just like medical drug use. 

As for your situation, I truly feel for you and I'm glad you're still out enjoying life! Crossbows do not effect my hunting but for guys to say they are the same as a vertical, no way. 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## skipper34 (Oct 13, 2005)

dialed-in said:


> Not sure how "high" the standards were, as I knew of at least 3 guys that had doctors sign bogus excuses? Just like medical drug use.
> 
> As for your situation, I truly feel for you and I'm glad you're still out enjoying life! Crossbows do not effect my hunting but for guys to say they are the same as a vertical, no way.
> 
> ...


In other words, you know of at least 3 guys who cheated the system. Sounds like you're proud of that. If crossbows don't affect your hunting, why make derogatory comments about those who use them?


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## dialed-in (Feb 7, 2011)

skipper34 said:


> In other words, you know of at least 3 guys who cheated the system. Sounds like you're proud of that. If crossbows don't affect your hunting, why make derogatory comments about those who use them?


How am I proud of that? Sorry Skipper, next time I post, ill be sure to not offend anyone. 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## ridgewalker (Jun 24, 2008)

dialed-in said:


> Not sure how "high" the standards were, as I knew of at least 3 guys that had doctors sign bogus excuses? Just like medical drug use.
> 
> As for your situation, I truly feel for you and I'm glad you're still out enjoying life! Crossbows do not effect my hunting but for guys to say they are the same as a vertical, no way.
> 
> ...


Easy? It took me 5 years and countless doctor examinations and reports before I received mine. That was the year before they became legal for everyone. I guess I didn't know the right doctor with his hand out. But then having a cracked shoulder, vertebrae problems, and Parkinson's seemed to be enough disabilities. Finally the legislature agreed and the regs were changed. My long battle to see that others did not have to suffer through the same system ended the following year when the NRC made a great decision.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Maybe the reason why crossbows were included is that compounds have become a long range weapon like a muzzleloader. Most of the guys I know that shoot muzzleloaders don't even practice at these ranges. :tdo12:


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## ridgewalker (Jun 24, 2008)

boomer_x7 said:


> Another fine example of making it easier for the lazy.... Don't require them tobecome hunters.... Lets make it easier for them....
> 
> 
> Whats funny is i hear about more people wounding deer with a crossbow from taking "long" shots" or going with the "its a crossbow... it'll punch through" mentality than all other bows combined.
> ...


_Boomer, what is your real problem? I have seen many wounded deer from arrows (before crossbow use) and from bad firearm shots. It is not a good thing but it happens for many reasons and by all methods of hunting. "5 minutes in the back yard" for crossbow hunters? Again I could say that seemed to be the situation for hunters of all methods that I have seen that did not seem to be qualified to use the particular weapon that was in their hands. Your problem seems to be with other hunters of all kinds. Are they taking your deer or is this your excuse for not getting a deer?_



tdduckman said:


> So you get to decide what is challenging enough for everyone or should the choice of the archery equipment be left to the user to decide what they can be accurate with?
> 
> 
> I think the people have spoken on this and the sky has not fallen.
> ...


*AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## stinky reinke (Dec 13, 2007)

Gary Bontt said:


> Crossbows allow ****** hunters a better chance at killing a deer and to me is no different than a gun therefore only allow them during gun season. Not to mention all the 80yd shots wounded the deer. Idiots!!!


Quite possibly the most intelligent post I have ever read on MS Forums.


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## stinky reinke (Dec 13, 2007)

KPC said:


> The "profile" isn't the issue, it's the movement. With a crossbow, the movement can be done a lot sooner. (getting in position that is, the "bow" has already been drawn) *With a vertical bow, alll the movent happens at the time of the shot. You have to lift the bow, extend the bow arm, and draw the bow, resulting in movement and often noise.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

One thing that I have noticed is that wounded deer threads have dramtically decreased since full inclusion. Some years there seemed to be more wounded deer threads than recovered deer threads in early October. For that I am thankful.

Another thing that I have noticed is the number of deer contest entries with crossbows. It must be that more deer are being recovered than lost due to poor shot placement with vertical bows.


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## RoadDog (Mar 13, 2011)

Luv2hunteup said:


> One thing that I have noticed is that wounded deer threads have dramtically decreased since full inclusion. Some years there seemed to be more wounded deer threads than recovered deer threads in early October. For that I am thankful.
> 
> Another thing that I have noticed is the number of deer contest entries with crossbows. It must be that more deer are being recovered than lost due to poor shot placement with vertical bows.



All assumptions that are biased.


:lol:


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

Luv2hunteup said:


> One thing that I have noticed is that wounded deer threads have dramtically decreased since full inclusion. Some years there seemed to be more wounded deer threads than recovered deer threads in early October. For that I am thankful.
> 
> Another thing that I have noticed is the number of deer contest entries with crossbows. It must be that more deer are being recovered than lost due to poor shot placement with vertical bows.


I think based on what I've seen on MS.com, I would agree, and that is a positive side to full inclusion. Take a hunter that for whatever reason, just can't shoot a bow, give him or her the option of using a crossbow and they are able to shoot accurately for obvious reasons...........and regardless of one's position on full inclusion, less deer wounded or unrecovered is a good thing.


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

Bad Ass 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RKrHnYexBic#!


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

It sure is biased on what is posted here. Go back to the deer hunting threads posted here starting in early October. Last years wounded deer threads were alot less than the previous years. It was either two or three years ago when wounded deer threads nearly out numbered recovered deer threads. Some members say they learn from them; what I learned is there are alot of deer wounded with vertical bows posted on this site.


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## Bowhunt (Jul 27, 2010)

Luv2hunteup said:


> It sure is biased on what is posted here. Go back to the deer hunting threads posted here starting in early October. Last years wounded deer threads were alot less than the previous years. It was either two or three years ago when wounded deer threads nearly out numbered recovered deer threads. Some members say they learn from them; what I learned is there are alot of deer wounded with vertical bows posted on this site.


I agree, however I also think that there are less and less people willing to post a "help me, I am struggling to recover my animal" thread on M-S because of the unfortunate bashing one opens itself too. There are alot of "experts" on here who apparently have never done anything wrong or made a poor choice/shot that are quick to crawl all over the poor sap who is man enough to post he did.


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## KPC (Jan 29, 2000)

*"With a vertical bow, all the movent happens at the time of the shot. You have to lift the bow, extend the bow arm, and draw the bow, resulting in movement and often noise."*




stinky reinke said:


>


What part of that didn't you understand or agree with stinky? 

KPC


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## Lumberman (Sep 27, 2010)

It depends on where the challenge lies for you. I am much more interested in getting close to deer without spooking them then I am practicing for hours to be efficient. Your worse off with a crossbow on the ground then you are with a vertical in a tree. 

What I don't understand is how what someone else hunts with effects your hunting. It's not like they get more tags????? Over harvest is managed by the tag system not the weapon. 

Should elk licenses be sold to anyone but you can only use a knife?


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

Lumberman said:


> Your worse off with a crossbow on the ground then you are with a vertical in a tree.
> 
> ?


I dont know... prone position covered with my ghillie suit worked out pretty well with the xbow..... not so well with my vertical bow...


:lol:..


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## Jigin-N-Grinin (Jan 22, 2008)

This thread is comical. 90% of you anti's have no clue what your spewing since you have NEVER hunted with one. 

Just for the Record, I hunt with both..... 

True story, This year I had two seperate bucks trailing seperate does on a passing trail directly behind my tree on the morning of Nov 3rd. I couldnt swing my crossbow around the tree due to the left limb crowding the tree on both of them. Soooo, I took my compound out Sunday morning and at 9:20 am I killed one of the two bucks by easily facing the tree and shooting around the right side of the tree.....with my compound.:yikes:

- The versatility of a verticle is more adventageous to the hunter then a horizontal

- The quietness of a verticle is more advantageous then a horizontal when shooting outside lets say 25 yards. 

- IMHO...they are a toss up as far as accuarcy if shooting freehand.
-
Ya, shooting my 10 point with a rest .....at 30 yrds I could outshoot any compound shooter. At least all the haters on this forum.

Enjoy!!!!
(Whatever weapon you may choose to hunt with)


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## stinky reinke (Dec 13, 2007)

KPC said:


> *"With a vertical bow, all the movent happens at the time of the shot. You have to lift the bow, extend the bow arm, and draw the bow, resulting in movement and often noise."*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You make the process sound like such a difficult task..

My favorite part - *resulting in noise. *

Noise??? Hence the . This is where you would end with a...

:lol:



I have never hunted with a Xbow, I hope I never have to, but my old man used one for a couple seasons and he hated how bulky it was and way too difficult to move around in a tree stand.


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

2PawsRiver said:


> I chuckle every time I see where somebody posts about how hunting with a crossbow isn't easier,


Success rates for normal archery equipment - 32% (2000-2011)
Success rates for crossbows - 36% (2009-2011)

...not much easier based on actual success rates.


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

KPC said:


> Apparently 80 some percent of the people that responded to the survey disagree with you. They say it's easier.


Yes, but actual data doesn't really support their beliefs.


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