# Tough Fishing



## herb09 (Jan 11, 2009)

Fished tuesday afternoon and we landed two fish one 8lb hen and a 6lb male. Water was really dropping well below what the gauge says:sad:. Fished from Rea Rd to the whirlpool wednesday, caught two skippers and bounced off allot of logs. Was just as bad yesterday said the hell with it might as well go walleye fishing.


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## Cedar Swamp (Oct 8, 2004)

Thanks Herb, you just ruined my weekend.

I am waiting to talk to Shawn for his report today before I decide on whether to head up or not.

Thanks again


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## herb09 (Jan 11, 2009)

Well the gauge says it went to 1700 if you can believe the gauge any more, but that should bring some fish to your favorite hole. We didn't touch a fish there so there waiting for ya.


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## Ron Matthews (Aug 10, 2006)

DNR say's things have been run well this past week Herb?

That spike your seeing is what Consumers stated this morning is a malfunction in the electronic data input from Alcona gauge.
Couldn't be from Alcona running higher than Foote most of the week:rant:

Last week is a maintanance issue at Mio BLEW the fishing, This week it's ANOTHER MALFUNCTION????? I"m having a REALLY Hard Time understanding this New system that was supposed to help the outflow from Foote with Many small adjustments over the course of the day To help THe fishing in the lower AuSable Below Foote Because there was a problem with only making 1 adjustment MANUALLY per day and this Automated System was supposed to make a difference. 

maybe it's just me, But I just don't see a dam bit off change for the better?


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## Ron Matthews (Aug 10, 2006)

How Low will she go this Time?


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## herb09 (Jan 11, 2009)

Marked a spot in my favorite hole when I got there tuesday water dropped a few more inches as I fished which almost left the ledge out of the water, which has to be close to 5or6 hundred cfs. That had not changed the last I checked it wednesday nite, and I get home and the gauge does not reflect that. "Something's wrong" It was a rough foat:help:.


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## Cedar Swamp (Oct 8, 2004)

herb09 said:


> Well the gauge says it went to 1700 if you can believe the gauge any more, but that should bring some fish to your favorite hole. We didn't touch a fish there so there waiting for ya.


Morning "on river" report has water up slightly.


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## herb09 (Jan 11, 2009)

Hey so your saying the water didn't go up today, that would really suck if it has not changed since I left.


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## Cedar Swamp (Oct 8, 2004)

herb09 said:


> Hey so your saying the water didn't go up today, that would really suck if it has not changed since I left.


He said it has gone up slightly...1 hit as of 1030, moving to his favorite spot next.


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## Ron Matthews (Aug 10, 2006)

[email protected]


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## herb09 (Jan 11, 2009)

Actually I was responding to Ron, Cedar swamp didn't see your post but glad you got a live one. Tell him to post a report, it would be good to see him on here again then I could just read instead of posting.


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## herb09 (Jan 11, 2009)

Ron Matthews said:


> [email protected]


Thank's Ron I did.


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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

I'm sick of this ********! Consumers does not care, nor does the DNR it seems!? Consumers is just talking out of their asses! It's very, very obvious they're doing the usual inconsiderate abuse they've been doing.

On a side note, I also wish Shawn would come back, he's cool as hell, and can fish too.....


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## 4lbtest (Feb 28, 2007)

Send me my friggin cabin key TODAY. I'd rather be chasing ghosts than sitting in this office....TODAY HERBERT


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## Ron Matthews (Aug 10, 2006)

ausable_steelhead said:


> nor does the DNR it seems!?QUOTE]
> 
> You think DNR biologists would understand your point you try to make to them, But have to wonder What the agenda Really is here?
> Because they are not protecting my resource Again this year after they Said they were working for improvements Last Year.


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## herb09 (Jan 11, 2009)

4lbtest said:


> Send me my friggin cabin key TODAY. I'd rather be chasing ghosts than sitting in this office....TODAY HERBERT


 Sh#! forgot to do that, been shivering on the river. Be in the mail or I can meet you there when you going?


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## herb09 (Jan 11, 2009)

Seen you launching in the parking lot, didn't do much better caught 6 skippers in two days of fishing all about 18 to 20". Pretty tough drift with the water as low as it was, suprised you made it that quick. Great pictures and nice report. Hopefully we'll get some water soon.


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## rwenglish1 (Jan 6, 2007)

Was you in the Red truck that said Hersay Meters? After you left I noticed it in your windows, I was wondering if you might have been at the Expo in Lansing on the 2nd and 3rd of Feb?


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## herb09 (Jan 11, 2009)

My partner was there I was fishing, don't tell him though:lol::lol:


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## rwenglish1 (Jan 6, 2007)

herb09 said:


> My partner was there I was fishing, don't tell him though:lol::lol:


For a map with some good holes marked on it, I might forget it. lol 

I work for a public a works and I was there. We are using Sensus meters, glad to see I am not the only one who takes off work to enjoy the rivers in this winter weather. Congrats on catching some, I really thought I could row up there but I was not making any head way, as it was, I would have probably burned an hour up there and would have had to finish some of the trip in the dark. I seen what looked like a lot of cement post in the river right at the water level. I thought they were trees but one I got close to take a look at it and it had grooves on the top and looked like cement.


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## herb09 (Jan 11, 2009)

Buy some Hersey meters and I'll show you all the holes I know. I'm heading back up tomorrow hopefully we'll be able to float it tuesday, oh and they are old stumps they just feel like concrete when you hit them, but the water is usually not that low. Hopefully consumers will let us fisherman have some.


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## rwenglish1 (Jan 6, 2007)

herb09 said:


> Buy some Hersey meters and I'll show you all the holes I know. I'm heading back up tomorrow hopefully we'll be able to float it tuesday, oh and they are old stumps they just feel like concrete when you hit them, but the water is usually not that low. Hopefully consumers will let us fisherman have some.


You know they say it is a small world, I bet you know John P. who taught the Water Operators class up at Saginaw.


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## herb09 (Jan 11, 2009)

Yea worked for Saginaw for 30 years John's a good friend. Gotta go fishing I'll give a report when I get back.


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## rwenglish1 (Jan 6, 2007)

herb09 said:


> Yea worked for Saginaw for 30 years John's a good friend. Gotta go fishing I'll give a report when I get back.


Any body heard from Herb09, he must have had to good a day to leave early.


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## herb09 (Jan 11, 2009)

Just got back from two days of fishing, caught the same little brown both days in the same hole that was it. Fished from Rea rd to the drugstore nothing. We need some water bad !!!!!


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## Ron Matthews (Aug 10, 2006)

Get used to it!
This is the way it will be...
Rules are in place to be manipulated to ones advantage I allway's say....


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## rwenglish1 (Jan 6, 2007)

Ron Matthews said:


> Get used to it!
> This is the way it will be...
> Rules are in place to be manipulated to ones advantage I allway's say....


 
Any body heard or been on the river Friday and seen what it was like? Just wondering about coming up there today or in the next couple of days.
rw


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## Ron Matthews (Aug 10, 2006)

With a flow like that you might as well stay home, I did!
Not saying you can't fish, But pretending to fish isn't really what I'm after...

River is low and clear as gin I'm sure!

Looks like it might pick up a little today in flow, but it's not following the trend it should be. 
The upper gauges are very stable last few day's, And Foote shouldn't be reflecting a falling flow but it is. 
In 6hrs that can all change and most likely will? 

I think it'll rise a little today and fall back off tonight?


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## rwenglish1 (Jan 6, 2007)

Ron Matthews said:


> With a flow like that you might as well stay home, I did!
> Not saying you can't fish, But pretending to fish isn't really what I'm after...
> 
> River is low and clear as gin I'm sure!
> ...


 
Thanks Ron, I have been watching that page, but I thought they said they were going to be doing something in Virginia and the gage would be off line.

Maybe this is a stupid question, but if they do not release the water, does it not create some kind of effect in the back water above the damn, such as causing flooding? Or when they release it would the water drop below the ice above the damn causing a problem?

I am just asking questions, so don't get mad at me. I had posted I seen what looked like small concrete post in the water about the size of telephone poles in diameter. I did not bang on one to see for sure, but I saw several about the same distance from shore over quite a length of drifting. One I got real close to look at it, I would have sworn it was a concrete monument of some kind. I can not find that post, but someone told me those were tree stumps. Now if that is true, the river never use to be that high at one time. So if the river is higher today to be up where woods use to be, how can it be to low?

Remember, I have not been on that river but once in my life. I just made obsevations and now am asking questions to LEARN something.


rw


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## Ron Matthews (Aug 10, 2006)

rwenglish1 said:


> Thanks Ron, I have been watching that page, but I thought they said they were going to be doing something in Virginia and the gage would be off line.
> 
> Maybe this is a stupid question, but if the do not release the water, does it not create some kind of effect in the back water above the damn?
> rw


 
The "real time" data is still good, I can't remember.... But I think is was historic data was going to be down??

I'm looking at the historic data from 1997-06 avg's
mean is 1299cfs for Feb.
min 903cfs [03]

We just got to see pond data from dnr last week..... and there's not alot of water to work with this season.

The ponds are HELD at 0" and I didn't really see any giant fluctuations in the system anywhere?
Granted Consumers could do a better job with Foote flows, But overall They are not storing water? and flows are supposed to follow outflow of Alcona w/ time delay of aprox 4 hrs. in adjustment differentials between the two reference points in this system. Which is about the only place we could really see improvements to the sharp rise/fall cycle that we've seen?
There's were the automated system was supposed to help, But because it's new it has under estimated/over shot the input data a couple times. They say they are learning still? Maybe next year will be different?


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## rwenglish1 (Jan 6, 2007)

Ron Matthews said:


> The "real time" data is still good, I can't remember.... But I think is was historic data was going to be down??
> 
> I'm looking at the historic data from 1997-06 avg's
> mean is 1299cfs for Feb.
> ...


Ok good point Ron, but maybe lack of snow and melting plays a little, but you would think the normal water points of entry should be putting out enough water to keep things in a better average. 

Has any new buisnesses went in along that water way that pulls water out? 

rw


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## Ron Matthews (Aug 10, 2006)

Na, There's no extra "fuel" for Consumers to burn thru or we'd be at the median flow I think -imo.

Remember we just had an "Incident" were Alcona sent the wrong data to Foote and alot of fuel was wasted.
Consumers had to fill Mio pond up 8' after maintanence project earlier this season also...
Yes the snow is light this yr. Manistee is 100" below last season so not much made it inland this yr.

I've said the accretion values in the formula were not right, But I can't argue with senior fishery biologists from dnr over it? They don't give a sheet what I have to say about it:lol:


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## herb09 (Jan 11, 2009)

My understanding is that the level's in foote pond are what consumers are regulated by and they really don't care what happens downstream from the damn. I believe that's what they told us, so if there is less water coming into foote pond they have to store water to keep there level's there so that means less coming downstream. So really they are storing water, correct me if i'm wrong Ron.


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## Ron Matthews (Aug 10, 2006)

That's correct Herb, 0" is the only thing that matters..
If there was extra water we would see more as the ponds can Not rise and fall but 3.5" So if were at 0" they can't store but maybe an inch, and they don't like to do that because if the system "burped" and flows were to rise quick Consumers would/could go over regulated pond hieght and have to report to ferc.

The regulation the way It was told to me-
Alcona outflow + accretion value with 4hr delay in flow to Foote outflow.
This keeps Foote slightly higher in flows than Alcona within say half a day is the way it should be everyday.
But it looks like if there's no accretion value to account for -your flows at Foote could be less than alcona for a short time? 

This machine operates like a bucket, The bucket will allways be full! If there is any extra then it follows as stated above


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## herb09 (Jan 11, 2009)

Rwenglish what you saw the other day was just about as low and slow as it get's which imo has a negative effect on the fishing. When we get a few days around 1300 that's when to go. There's a few fish in the system right now as I saw a few but low water doesn't help the bite.


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## AftertheSteel (Dec 10, 2008)

got one out there today !!!! yes I took two pics of ONE fish .... try and tell me you wouldnt if she LOOKED this good


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## rwenglish1 (Jan 6, 2007)

AftertheSteel said:


> got one out there today !!!! yes I took two pics of ONE fish .... try and tell me you wouldnt if she LOOKED this good


WoW rub it in Kyle, nice job and Great looking fish, I am glad to see you don't wait around but just go out and get things done. How long was that football, that thing looks like a really nice fish. 

I am suppose to be coming up that way tomorrow with Nate. But if he calls and says he can't go, I will give you a bump.
What is that an egg or a jig head.
rw


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## AftertheSteel (Dec 10, 2008)

jig head  that I tied up last night !!!


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## Fishfighter (Dec 20, 2009)

that looks just like the jig I have siting on the table hopefully I can get a fish on it next weekend I haven't caught any steel in a long time on a jig


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## herb09 (Jan 11, 2009)

Very nice fish Kyle.


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