# Wind Power



## Frantz (Dec 9, 2003)

I have been looking at putting together a small wind generator. Cheap, just as a test and trial kinda thing.

Has anyone here done this?

Here are my thoughts. We spend a lot of money on lighting in the basement. My daughter and I spend a lot of time down here and the lights are always on and the computers. I was thinking a small generator to start and a couple of deep cycle batteries. Add to the LED lighting or some serious 12V lights and I will save some $$$ while doing my share to lower consumption. After that, I move forward with more batteries and something bigger or some solar panels.

Any thoughts on what to get in the line of batteries to get the best life I can? Also parts and supplies? I am searching Ebay for generators and other parts but have no idea where to start.


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## fishenrg (Jan 9, 2008)

By saying "putting together a small wind generator", do you mean constructing one? Or putting a small system together? Plans are available for building a wind generator from a brake-drum...I had a copy until recently, but just passed them on.

I don't have a wind generator because my house is surrounded by trees and my tower would need to be too tall. But I do have a small photovoltaic array. I use it to power some lights and the tv in the basement. From outside the power goes through a charge controller to my batteries. The charge controller (I have a Trace C40) simply makes sure that the power is the correct voltage to properly charge the batteries. For batteries, I have 2 Trojan deep cycle batteries. Most of the systems that I have seen use Trojan batteries. I think mine were about $70 a piece and have lasted for about 5 years now.

You can do the 12 volt thing, which is pretty easy. I have a small inverter that I use though which converts the DC to AC power. Mine was probably about $40 and is similar to what you would find in an RV or something. With the new net-metering law the most recent trend is to not have batteries at all, but to use the grid as "storage". Of course this is not helpful during a power outage. I love being able to watch tv or whatever when the rest of the neighbors are dark!

Probably the most popular company for personal wind generators is Southwest Wind Power. They make a variety of sizes. Their systems also come with a charge controller (at least they used to) so that is something you wouldn't have to worry about. Here's their web address:

http://www.windenergy.com/index_wind.htm

I've also always liked a company called Bergey Wind Power:

http://www.bergey.com/


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## jackbob42 (Nov 12, 2003)

I plan on building my own using a GM alternator. It already has a voltage regulator built in.
I'm also working on running a heating and cooling ( AC ) system from it also.


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## Frantz (Dec 9, 2003)

I have an inverter that I use in my car, actually I have two. I thought against it as it seems like it would be a waste of energy converting it over, but I guess that it would not be enough to justify all the 12V stuff I would have to get?

I was considering both, building my own from parts and kits. I am still trying to figure out how much I would save building from scratch.

Thanks for the helpful info guys, keep it coming!

Frantz


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## fishenrg (Jan 9, 2008)

Some good DIY sites:

http://www.scoraigwind.com/

http://www.otherpower.com/

http://www.greeleynet.com/~cmorrison/

Lot of information to get your started there, I hope not too much.

Frantz - You're right, there are losses during conversion. I'm unsure of how much 12V equipment costs, but I'm sure there's some mathematical way to figure out where the break-even point it between system size with conversion losses vs. 12 volt equipment. I will say, it is always cheaper to invest in energy efficiency first.

Jackbob - That sounds like an interesting solution too. I'm not extremely technical, which is why I gave away my brakedrum windmill plans. But I've always been interested in power storage alternatives other than batteries. Like heating water, compressed air, or even hydrogen!


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## Frantz (Dec 9, 2003)

I live in the Blanchard area, 49310 Zip Code.

I was thinking , it would be cool to have a build party.. Get a bunch of us together with parts and plans and work together to build a few units.


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## jackbob42 (Nov 12, 2003)

fishenrg said:


> Jackbob - That sounds like an interesting solution too. I'm not extremely technical, which is why I gave away my brakedrum windmill plans. But I've always been interested in power storage alternatives other than batteries. Like heating water, compressed air, or even hydrogen!



It was small scale , but this winter I got water to 180 dgrees while outside in 25 degree weather. No insulation , open container.
I figure , if I can heat with water on those cold , clear spring and fall days , I might be able to knock a good chunk off my winter heating bills.

Now that it's hot , I've switched to working on cooling the house. LOL


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## jackbob42 (Nov 12, 2003)

Frantz said:


> I live in the Blanchard area, 49310 Zip Code.
> 
> I was thinking , it would be cool to have a build party.. Get a bunch of us together with parts and plans and work together to build a few units.



Another good thing would be to find some guys that could cut our costs.
I had a guy tell me he'd help me if I didn't forget him when I succeded and came up with a finished product. I told him no problem.
But , when I had him do about 1/2 hours worth of machine work , he charged me 40 bucks !
I have access to some pretty reflective stainless steel that I could bring to the table , so to speak.

Now I'm on my way outside to work on my " project " as I call it. :lol::lol:


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

fishenrg said:


> Frantz - You're right, there are losses during conversion. I'm unsure of how much 12V equipment costs, but I'm sure there's some mathematical way to figure out where the break-even point it between system size with conversion losses vs. 12 volt equipment. I will say, it is always cheaper to invest in energy efficiency first.


Sure there will be loses due to the conversion (one easy way to tell is that heat is created) but you are getting the power for free. So what you gain is free, minus initial investment, and what you lose was free too. 

I work at a satellite dish company, 94cm up to 12 meters. We have done a couple of solar projects, one a 25kw solar generator and it tracks the sun to optimize. The other is a prime focused dish that heats water. We just started on another that would track the sun and pipe it into houses and buidings to reduce electric for lighting. The last one isn't looking real good money wise as the controls are quite expensive.

Anyway, if anyone needs any large irregular parts made, I have a friend that owns a water jet and laser and IMO parts can be made relatively inexpensive compared to other methods.


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## USST164 (May 6, 2008)

You don't want to get too carried away in this state with the current set up , only 25 households use net meters because the rip-off costs and having to give away extra power you make over a set time period to the local power company. 

http://www.michigan.gov/mpsc/0,1607,7-159-16393_38274---,00.html

If you do some searching at the above site you'll see some of the down-falls discussed at the public meetings.


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## Ausable Junkie (Oct 2, 2002)

I did alot of reading on the net and started to build a wind power system. I got as far as making 2 of the 3 cedar blades needed for a 52" diameter blade. I'm going instead with a set of poly blades i've seen on ebay to give me 8' diam. The smaller the diam, the less wind it takes to start the blades turning. On the flipside, A larger diam. allows for more torque with higher wind speeds and can drive a larger generator (more power). You need to match your genrator's specs to the diam. blade set you plan on using.

Car/truck alternators are poor choices for wind power. The rpm's need to generate the >12 volts needed, is waaay beyond what you'll get from a wind turbine unless its in a tornado. If you're charging a 12v battery bank, and your turnbine and gen. are only generating 11.9 volts, net charge to batteries=o. 

The best genrator ive found is at this link. The "kick-in"voltage (>12V) starts at rpms a wind turbine can reach with low wind speeds.http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...o=SI&its=I%2BIA&itu=CR%2BIA%2BUCI&otn=4&ps=42 I did alot of reading on the net and started to build a wind power system. I got as far as making 2 of the 3 cedar blades needed for a 52" diameter blade. I'm going instead with a set of poly blades i've seen on ebay to give me 8' diam. The smaller the diam, the less wind it takes to start the blades turning. On the flipside, A larger diam. allows for more torque with higher wind speeds and can drive a larger generator (more power). You need to match your genrator's specs to the diam. blade set you plan on using.

Car/truck alternators are poor choices for wind power. The rpm's need to generate the >12 volts needed, is waaay beyond what you'll get from a wind turbine unless its in a tornado. If you're charging a 12v battery bank, and your turnbine and gen. are only generating 11.9 volts, net charge to batteries=o. 

The best genrator ive found is at this link. The "kick-in"voltage (>12V) starts at rpms a wind turbine can reach with low wind speeds.http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...o=SI&its=I%2BIA&itu=CR%2BIA%2BUCI&otn=4&ps=42 

It starts generating 12v at 150 rpms. Easily done in a 8-10 mph wind depending on your setup.
Its not cheap, but its made and designed with wind power generation in mind. This is a direct drive
generator meaining there's no gears in between the turbine blades and the generator spindle. Some units
are a geared system to get more generator rpm's per turn of the turbine blade. Sounds good on paper but
more torque/wind is required to overcome the resistance of the gears. These geared systems require a bigger blade diameter and
a higher-than-normal average wind speed to be effective. 


I'm sure I posted too much info but just wanted to make you aware of some of the variables involvled.

It starts generating 12v at 150 rpms. Easily done in a 8-10 mph wind depending on your setup.
Its not cheap, but its made and designed with wind power generation in mind.


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## fishenrg (Jan 9, 2008)

FREEPOP said:


> I work at a satellite dish company, 94cm up to 12 meters. We have done a couple of solar projects, one a 25kw solar generator and it tracks the sun to optimize. The other is a prime focused dish that heats water. We just started on another that would track the sun and pipe it into houses and buidings to reduce electric for lighting. The last one isn't looking real good money wise as the controls are quite expensive.


That's cool. 25kw is a big system, where is it located?

That focus dish, what are you using the hot water for?

On that newer system what part of the controls are you finding to be too expensive? Is it the tracking mechanism itself?

You guys sound like you are working on some really interesting projects!


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## jackbob42 (Nov 12, 2003)

Ausable Junkie said:


> Car/truck alternators are poor choices for wind power. The rpm's need to generate the >12 volts needed, is waaay beyond what you'll get from a wind turbine unless its in a tornado. If you're charging a 12v battery bank, and your turnbine and gen. are only generating 11.9 volts, net charge to batteries=o.


You may be right , but according to my guage , my alternator on my truck is putting out 14 volts at idle and it runs 12 volt equipment every day. And keeps the battery charged. I also charge a deep cycle battery while I'm driving the two-tracks up bear hunting. ( low speed )
Drag racers have been using them ( powered by a small engine ) to charge batteries for years.
And there are a ton of them around at the junkyards.
They might not be as efficient , but if I can get them for free.........


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## Ausable Junkie (Oct 2, 2002)

I'm no mechanic, but at idle, i'm guessing your truck alternator is spinning at 800-1000 rpm. This is attainable for a turbine, but gearing would be needed to get these rpm's. A geared system needs buku wind to get the genrator going enough to charge the batteries. You'll probably only see winds like this maybe 1 or 2 days out of a month. I'm not trying to "one-up" ya on this, just wouldn't wanna see anyone invest alot of time into a system that might disappoint them.

The plus for vehicle alternators is the wire used on the windings is heavy enough gauge to take the current developed at high rpms. Some people try to use a generator that has good charts (voltage generated vs. rpms) but the wire in the windings isn't heavy enough to handle the current for long periods of time, say a few hours. These burn out quickly and end up only worth the scrap value in copper they have.

Here's a bad outcome due to too many rpms. Yikes!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nSB1SdVHqQ


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

fishenrg said:


> That's cool. 25kw is a big system, where is it located?
> 
> That focus dish, what are you using the hot water for?
> 
> ...


I'm not sure where the 25kw system ended up, we were a sub supplier, the main company did the lenses and photo pic ups and we did all the assembly.

We haven't used the hot water for anything yet, just a little testing. There was some interest by a new casino/hotel in Vegas to heat their water with it, haven't heard anything for a little while about it.


The new system for lights, the problem(s) is the gearing and postioning. We believe that the customer wants something more accurate than they really need. In accurate postioning, one of the main problems is backlash in the drive system.

Some of the projects are interesting but with a work force that mainly makes $7.00 an hour, it can quickly take the wind outa your sails.


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