# Meeting on AuSable water levels



## hbt (Jan 27, 2007)

Can someone fill us in on how the meeting went? I fully intended on going but the snow fall we got yesterday kept me plowing most of the night and all morning. Have to keep the client's happy you know.


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## HemlockNailer (Dec 22, 2000)

Lot's of fluff. Consumers claims there is nothing different about the way that they operate the dams now than pre 1994. Oh, there was that one or two times that there may have been human error involved. Also some of the guage stations upstream may at times give false flow rates if the river has ice on it ,which in turn causes the operator to needlessly open or close the flow at Foote Dam to compensate for the false reading. To soften the debate about the water flow, Consumers brought in DNR Biologist and USGS technicians to tell us the effects of the decrease in forage fish in Lake Huron; and to explain how they gauge the flow of rivers on the west side of the state. 

On the upside, we can expect tremendous walleye fishing because of natural reproduction and the elimination of salmon and steelhead competition for the forage base. And we have an open invitation to visit Foote Dam to see in person the data used by the operator to gauge the operation of the dam.


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## Kelly Neuman (Apr 12, 2007)

I think overall meeting went very well. Consumers blamed river ice problems for many flow problems and at times used some very lame reasoning. I expressed my views the best I could as did others at meeting. Consumers did continue to justify they have been operating dams correctly but at least all the issues related to fishing were point out to them. Consumers did admit to some poor operate errors this past fall at Foote Dam that was related to personal and said problems had been fixed. There were a couple of reports there and when I see there stories I will post them. At least Consumers knows people are watching there operations and I would think that would make the problem get better.


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## Adam Peterson (Mar 20, 2006)

that's good to hear, hopefully they will make some changes. I wonder why it was below 650 yesterday. Let's just hope they keep the flows steady come spring time!


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## Slodrift (Oct 28, 2006)

Lots of fluff is right they had a answer(excuse) for everythig and the way I understood it we won't be seeing steady flows anytime soon. Like Sreamside said at least they know we are watching. I had to leave 2hr's into the meeting so I did'nt get to hear the Biologist speak. They are suppose to e-mail a copy of the minutes to everyone who attended,when or if they do I will post them.


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## Kelly Neuman (Apr 12, 2007)

Consumers blamed just about all problems on ice. Some of the reasoning was extremely lame in my opinion. When pressured about non ice times, like last fall, he did look a little uncomfortable and answers were very short. He wanted to talk about extreme cold winter periods the whole time and that is because it is much easier to justify. People do have to remember the guy that was there is a Consumers employ and Im sure has been told what to say. You really can not expect him to say publicly how poor of a job his company has done in the past. Before the cold weather came Consumers was talked to by DNR about there poor operations and there had been some changes made. Ice problems will be gone very soon and if flows are not run better then it will be time to start complaining to the agencys that oversee Consumers operations. It will be interesting to see a reporters view on that load of BS Consumers was dishing out! Michigan Outdoor News and Iosco County News did have reports there. The good news was others at meeting did also state steelhead fishing is showing some really improvement this winter over the past couple.


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## LostnHungry (Jan 29, 2008)

The ausable's impounded? That really pisses me off. Back in CA, PG&E has turned many great rivers into dangerous situations to wade, not to mentioned all the eco-implications i'm sure it probably has on them. On the North branch of the Feather it's like every mile = large dam. Pretty sad stuff, I wish energy was free.


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## Ron Matthews (Aug 10, 2006)

I'm still trying to figure out why Consumers had the whole platoon down there To quash some fisherman?

They had enough People on payroll there To Hold a softball tourneyment.
I can understand the Tech's from west side. They do well there..

To Me, it seemed They are blaming the gauge at red oak?
The gage Never had these problems for as long as I remember back to 94 flows
Alway's had good water In Bad years before? Had to push boats in by hand cause of the snow and ice for Many years..


It seems there is a compounding factor in flow between the 5 dams- 
I Never Knew They operated on three licence? If Loud & five channels are a Peak op. That's the problem along with gauge placements. imo

To Maintain the -0- factor he talked about, Every Time they peak the two
dams you have about 8 hrs. before foot is adjusted. On the 15hr flow times
Alcona? Is an automatic flow control?? Why is one auto- 4dams manual
And two are peaking? I'm lost, How can you have a run of river with two peak operations? 

Help Me I'm just a steelheader- :sad:


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## Kelly Neuman (Apr 12, 2007)

It was all one big show on Consumers part. They got catch not following there license agreement and had to make it look like they really care now. Basically ever problem has caused by ice at Red Oak. If you would have asked David McIntosh about why Michigans economy is doing badly he would have blamed it on the ice in the Au Sable! I liked it when that woman tried to tell me the ponds would overflow if water was not run this way. Basically water shut downs at Foote are caused by a gauge reading that is not accurate at Red Oak. Ice gives a false reading on gauge and Consumer said they know the data is not accurate but they use it anyways to make extreme changes at Foote. The best was when Muskegon operator even stated a good operator would not use that data. When I pointed out the two said opposite statement they went back to babul ling about something stupid again. Ice will be gone soon and we will see what happens. If it is not run properly this time we need to scream even louder and to more people!


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## Kelly Neuman (Apr 12, 2007)

I wonder if we can trade our Foote Dam operator for that operator from the Muskegon?


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## KjW (Apr 16, 2007)

Streamside Custom Rod said:


> I wonder if we can trade our Foote Dam operator for that operator from the Muskegon?


 
Or just get a monkey to do the job. Could it be any worse?


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## Kelly Neuman (Apr 12, 2007)

I like that idea! Its called making a simple task sound very complicated.


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## Slodrift (Oct 28, 2006)

It seemed to me that they thought we were a bunch of backwoods fishermen and they could overwelm us with chart's, graph's and stat's and it was'nt working. Even the DNR seemed to be backing them, like everyone said we are the one's standing in the water every day,we see whats happening but when that point was made they all just stood there studdering (like a bunch of backwood's Rep's.)


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## Pink Bags (Jan 13, 2008)

Yup, it sounds like what I figured would happen did: Consumers making a bunch of lame exscuses. If the current operators don't know what they're doing, then they need to get rid of them. I don't think it's only on the AS, as the BM's flow pattern was almost identical to the AS last week.....


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Their stance is stupid. We have ice every Winter - well, almost every Winter. The guages have always done what they are doing. If the people whose job it is to run the dams properly cannot understand that, then perhaps they should not be running the dams. Also, since this seems to be a known problem, why doesn't somebody impart this wisdom to the guys who operate the dams? It seems like those guys should be able to pick up the phone and contact each other, and find out whether the upstream guage is iced or not. Maybe I am a simpleton (I really am), but that seems like simple logic to me. 

Did anything come up about Consumers installing bottom draw equipment on any of the dams on the Ausable, at this meeting? The river gets quite a bit warmer, in the hottest part of Summer, than it did just 10 years ago. I would be willing to bet that it gets at least 5 degrees warmer at the warmest point, and maybe more. That means that ZERO Steelhead holdover in the river for a year - which used to happen with quite a few fish. Those fish would stay, for whatever reason, and would fatten up for an extra year, before they smolted; and subsequently returned after 3 years in the lake. I have to think that some of those were the outsized 17 - 20 pound fish that we would happen across, once in awhile. It was always fun to hook into one of those freight train fish, that you really had very little chance of landing. When was the last time anyone reading this hooked a Steelhead on the Ausable, with straight 10 lb line, and the fish just took you to the cleaners in 10 seconds? Man, I miss that.


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## snowman11 (Nov 21, 2006)

Fishndude said:


> When was the last time anyone reading this hooked a Steelhead on the Ausable, with straight 10 lb line, and the fish just took you to the cleaners in 10 seconds? Man, I miss that.


My dad did that.

But it was a carp.

lol


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## Ron Matthews (Aug 10, 2006)

[quote=Fishndude; Did anything come up about Consumers installing bottom draw equipment on any of the dams on the Ausable, 


That's Not what the meeting was set up for..
I don't like to say it, But We're not gonna get anywhere on that subject.
It's about Money-
The more Consumers peak flows, the More Money.

I Think after hearing what fisheries people Had to say, Consumers is Not real intrested what a "few" fisherman are concerned with.

Now if 100 People Went to that meeting? We could have debated All day.

It was All against a few, What ya gonna do?
Hell, we didn't have a fancy projection lap top to prove anything..


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Sorry I could not make it. I work a ton, and live in the Detroit area. I really would have liked to be there, because I have lots of questions I have thought of, over the years, and which the DNR and the guys who have run the dam never seem able to answer. If anymore meetings get scheduled for stuff relating to Foote dam, I will make it a point to get there.


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## Pink Bags (Jan 13, 2008)

I think the fish are still decent fighters, for the size. I also don't run heavy line, 8lb for fall-runs, 4-5lb(straight) for winter fish, and 5-6lb for spring. I don't lose many fish, and the ones I do usually just spit it or I rip the hook out horsing them. I haven't gotten wrapped-up in awhile, probably 2-3years. I think a stable flow helps, it sure seemed helpful when we were hitting fish regularly for a month and a half. The last 3 weeks have been tough, and Consumers has been changing the flows every other day for the last two weeks. I'm going up tomorrow, not expecting alot of action, might hook a fish or two, that'd be cool.


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## Kelly Neuman (Apr 12, 2007)

After listening to how Consumers justified running flows at Foote Dam I took another look at some recent data and some very interesting numbers were found. Here is email that I sent to Consumers, DNR, US Foresty, and USGS yesterday. Still no reply. I think this shows the problem very clear and will post there reply. If you use the model that was presented at meeting Foote should have been dropped to 1150 and not 700 and everyone would be happy. 


Hello,

Had a question that Im sure someone can answer. I have been told the term run-of-river means measuring flow coming in and going out. If the flow is reduced upstream then it will be reduced down stream with regard for time for water to travel.

On Feb 10th Red Oak dropped naturally from 750cfs to 600cfs and I was told it was caused by extreme cold weather and this is what started the chain for reduced flows at all of the lower dams. Later Feb 10th or 11th Mio dropped from 1000 to 590, Alcona dropped from 1100 to 675 and Foote dropped from 1300 to 700.

Flow was reduced naturally by 150cfs at Red Oak and in less than 24 hours it was reduced 600cfs at Foote dam. Foote got reduced 4x the amount of the first flow reduction.

My question is how is this run-of-river?

Thank you, Kelly Neuman.


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