# Looking for pointing labs



## HRKPOINTINGLABS (Jan 13, 2006)

Rooster_Smasher said:


> I am just curious as to the range a typical pointing Lab has ???
> 
> You also mention you bust your ____ on these Dawgs ??? Sounds like they are hard to train if ya gotta bust your **** to get them to do what comes naturally to the true pointing/Versatile breeds....
> 
> ...


 Answering your first question I let my dogs go and they stay within 100yards in open cover and are tight in thick cover.
Answering you second
Yep its tough preparing to run for master in the APLA, all the retriever requirements and then all the pointing requirements in the same day.
Double on land with a blind.
double in water with a blind.
20 min 3 chuckers 2 pheasants dog must be steady to wing and shot in the upland field. ALL in one day.
The last test I went to there where more then 50 dogs in three different catagories and only 21 passed, 1 out of 11 masterdogs passed, 2 out of 4 Advanced dogs and 18 certified dogs out of 35+. We took 4 dogs and came home with 3 ribbons losing a 9 month old female who was a last second replacement for another dog who came into heat and she was not prepared. When you have to drive 500+ miles to a test I'd say you better be over prepared then under.

its also lots of work just tending to dogs, caring for pups, talking to customers, answering emails and all the paperwork involved.
So yea its tough but I should have said busting our... on running the kennel


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## Rooster_Smasher (Oct 18, 2003)

Double on land with a blind.
double in water with a blind.
20 min 3 chuckers 2 pheasants dog must be steady to wing and shot in the upland field. ALL in one day.

Pass this one time and you get your Master ???

How long are the Doubles and the Blinds and the conditions ??? How many faults are you allowed ???

I am just wondering,

Rooster


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## HRKPOINTINGLABS (Jan 13, 2006)

http://www.americanpointinglab.com/site/TestRules/tabid/55/Default.aspx


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## jlock (Feb 24, 2006)

sounds like Rooster Smasher is one of those ignorant guy's that just like to spue crap. You should see his dogs before you open your mouth. I would put money on his dogs out hunting yours and when they were done doing that the labs would kick your little tinkerbell pointing breeds rear end in a brawl.:lol: I have my sisters pup from Dale over ( baby setting ) and she is something else. She nails the birds just as fast as my setters and my buddy's shorthair out of Crosswind kennels. If that does not say enough I do not know what does!


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## Rooster_Smasher (Oct 18, 2003)

HRK, looks like a fun test


jlock,

I was just asking a couple simple questions...

Look whos doing the spuing... If it was taken wrong thats your problem... 

Lets hook up this saturday and do some 150 yard blinds in some thick covered waters. How about a 150 yard blind to the other side of the lake and the dog has to hit the bank and take direction from there and have a planted duck 50 yards up on shore..... I'll bring a shorthair and you bring a Lab. I'll show ya a Versatile. After that lets send them out for a 1 hour romp and put out a couple dozen birds in 80 acres and see who scores more finds and is steady through the fall. I'll bring my UT Prize one dog and you bring what ever you want... Lets end it with a couple tracking events. say 2 hour old track across a couple trails and through some standing water ending about 1/4 mile distance.... Saturday, noon, can your pooch handle the heat ??? Bring it, I:ll be there. Been awhile since we have done our blinds, but she will handle the task. Tip off at noon in Highland... 

Water work followed with one hour in the field. Backing on sight of the dog, not scenting the bird. Backing dog has to honor the other dogs work with NO commands from the backing dogs handler. Complete steadiness, retrieve only when released by the handler. Prompt delivery to hand, bird released by command. Must remain steady on wild flushes or bumped birds.

Water work 150 yard blind in lilly pads and heavy cover, hit the other bank and track and find the dead duck and deliver to hand. Each command is a 1 point reduction. 

The above is two of the events we train for. You in jlock ??? If ya hold up to that we can add in the other events. 

No Beeper Collars, Bell or Ecollars.

http://www.wolfescreekshorthairs.homestead.com/


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## labdog99 (May 8, 2005)

Not bad.....throw in a water quad in cold weather with a blind up the gut and under the arch and you might convert me


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## jlock (Feb 24, 2006)

NIce come back !!! I do have a lab but he is sixteen and has been retired for a few years. The puppy like I said is a puppy and is not even close to being finished. I wish I had one of HRK's finished labs then I would take you up. The running part I would give you but any amount of watertime would be plain stupid to think a shorthair would compete with any trained lab.I keep hearing about these shorthairs that make super duck dogs but just have never seen one. When I see them at the Duckhunters festival they never can compete with the labs or chessies in the water. They just seem to be there as a novel piece. I have hunted with shorthairs in December and cannot hunt the day due to them shivering to death. Would keep going but it would be a bickering match. I am sure you are a nice guy and you have dogs to be proud of. But Iwould ask you to see the HRK dogs in action before taking shots at them. I was in your shoes a year ago about pointing labs but after seeing them for myself in action the truth has set me free:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: I do have some setters which I would never put in the water against a lab or shorthair but if you want to run a marathon I would take you up . Besides my setters would never honor your shorthairs since they would have found the birds first ( lol - just taking a cheap shot )


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## jlock (Feb 24, 2006)

If you want to show me versitile then we can hook up and do some duck/goose hunting out in the big lake ( Superior,Michigan or Erie ) in below freezing temps with whitecaps and wind with your dogs coat literaly being one big frozen sheet of ice and have your dog sit on the step on the boat getting pelted by waves from dusk to dawn. Do you honostly think a shorthair can compete in the real arena and not some fancied up warm water pond. Thats versitile.


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## Rooster_Smasher (Oct 18, 2003)

Not once did I bad mouth his dawgs. Just asked a couple simple questions. I absolutly love Labs. I have watch National Grand Champions in action. I have also worked with several Labs and they are an outstanding animal, if bred right. 

I know a kid who bought a couple shorthairs of me, he is a DNR biologist out on St.Clair. He puts a neoprene vest on his shorthairs and is out in some pretty nasty stuff. But when the weather is as wicked as you mentioned, you will find my butt out in the fields in Iowa chasin Roosters or up north working late season Grouse. 

The dog in the photo below is a pup I sold him a couple years ago. I agree, cant compare them to a chessy as far as cold water goes, but the dog in the photo breaks ice. Desire over comes ice, but not hypothermia. Upland hunting in December is no big deal for a shorthair. Just depends on the breeding. Desire desire desire...

Duck hunters festival, I know I would enjoy it, but Go watch a NAVHDA Invitational, it will WOW ya. One upland event followed with three water events. Its good stuff.











Lets get out and run the bird dogs some day.


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

Its all planted bird crap anyway, NAVHDA, APLA, ext....

This is why I wish - AKC, NAVHDA would not classify the type of breed you can run in tests.

I wish Rooster Smasher could run his shorthairs in any of the Hunt Tests, or Open Retriever competitions, and I wish Dale could run his Labs in NAVHDA tests.

The True measure of a dog, is how much it loves its owner, and how much its owner loves him, and what ever joy they get out of they're relationship, be it trials, hunt tests, or just looking for birds and getting lucky every now and then. The rest is just ribbons on the wall. To each his own.

Dale has great dogs, and so does RS.....


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## Socks (Jan 8, 2007)

Steelheadfred said:


> Its all planted bird crap anyway, NAVHDA, APLA, ext....
> 
> This is why I wish - AKC, NAVHDA would not classify the type of breed you can run in tests.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more and I've seen both RS and HRK work and do great IMO.


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## Firemedic (Apr 5, 2005)

Socks said:


> I couldn't agree more and I've seen both RS and HRK work and do great IMO.


Hey, what about MINE!?!?!?!?!


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## Socks (Jan 8, 2007)

Firemedic said:


> Hey, what about MINE!?!?!?!?!


Well no one taking shots at you, but if you want/need one I can do that!
And yeah I thought your dogs did great too! Your lab cracked me up! Talk about wanting to get out and play! By the way. How's the gsp doing? Still as intense? That was one focused pup, at least I thought so.


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## HRKPOINTINGLABS (Jan 13, 2006)

I love my dogs period.
I know RS loves his.
I know my neighbor loves theirs.
No dog is better then the one you own.

We need to get another MSF hunt planned for this year so we can all get out and drink some beers and talk dogs.
How bout it.


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## Firemedic (Apr 5, 2005)

HRKPOINTINGLABS said:


> I love my dogs period.
> I know RS loves his.
> I know my neighbor loves theirs.
> No dog is better then the one you own.
> ...


AMEN!!! How about just getting together and drinking some beers!!! Not to thread jack, but my 5th annual BBQ will be in September, before the 15th. You are all welcome to attend! I need to find something to do with 25 phez and 9 grouse.... Ya'll wanna come and eat?


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## jlock (Feb 24, 2006)

Rooster Smasher, I guess I did not need to go to the extreme I did. I was just sticking up for a guy who is doing the lab/dog world a great service in his breeding program. You need to check out HRK dogs and I know you will be impressed. I can't wait to get one of my own hopefuly sooner than later. I also will be adding a shorthair from crosswind in the future also.We all get a little carried away when it comes to our dogs or breeds but in the end we are all the same type guy's. I hope you accept my apology and maybe we could drink a cold one some day.


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## Rooster_Smasher (Oct 18, 2003)

No Biggie jlock, I just get a little pumped up when a challenge is presented. 

I am a firm believer in wild bird contact. With that being said and looking back to page two and what Stealheadfred said about the planted bird crap and test and trials, is this not one of the sound ways to find out what your breeding and breeding too, I mean titles and such... Dont get me wrong, just about any dog can get a title. Might take a long time for some. If I have several bitches here and one rips through her testing and breezes through a comformation title as well am I not doing the breed justice by breeding her to a well rounded male. On the other hand I see some who spend years and thousands of dollars on dogs to get their titles and get sent to a pro trainer and handler and finally put a couple titles on the dog and then breed to some male is that person doing the breed right. I guess what I am getting at is even the titled dogs need to be researched. At what age did the dog get the title, how many test did it have to run to recieve the title. Getting a little long winded here, sorry. I cant type as fast as I think and I guess I have that A.D.D thing. 

Got a question for ya HRK... say ya have a litter of 10 pups, how many have the natural pointing instinct in them ??? Do ya keep several pups from a litter if ya have a couple of real stand outs. My wife and I keep a couple from each litter to truely see what we have produced. Then sell off the other two or one after thay have been studied for several months. Thats another reason we like to see the owners of our pups test them so we can see what we produced. 

I have this lil 8 week old male here at the house I like. Lil stinker is built perfect. Pointing the wing nice, picking bird wings& tails up and bringing them back nice. Pointed a Quail in the yard nice and when it moved he pounced and it flew off, was not afraid of it at all. He lookd at me like " Did you see that" and started racing around the yard.












Fun hunt sounds like fun. I'll bring the coffee, been on the wagon for 19 years. I am alergic to booze, I break out in drunks, fall down and do stupid stuff and forget what happened the night before. 


Rooster


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## Shotgun Kennel (Feb 9, 2007)

I have a friend that bought a pointing type lab several years ago. He is still "looking" for him to point. He was pretty sure it did once but there were no pointing dog people around to confirm the claim.:evil:


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## HRKPOINTINGLABS (Jan 13, 2006)

At the bottom of our litter page we have a couple vids.
If you have dial up give it some time as both vids load at the same time.

http://www.huntersrosekennel.homestead.com/litters.html

Yes i keep pups out of our litters and know right where we stand and I have not heard of one of customers complain of lack of point , retrieve or drive. I have also trained several of our customers dogs and believe me you might just be a little suprised when you see some of them point.

Example 'Cash' this dog was cat walking birds from 30 yards and when he had it, his body froze if he was in between steps he locked up sometimes with his back leg still stuck in the air.

I am personally a huge upland guy and thats what i would rather do. 
But until some other organizations allow PLs to play I'll run the APLA, train and hunt. 

Your always welcome to come on down.

I drink coffee too.


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## Shotgun Kennel (Feb 9, 2007)

HRKPOINTINGLABS said:


> At the bottom of our litter page we have a couple vids.
> If you have dial up give it some time as both vids load at the same time.
> 
> http://www.huntersrosekennel.homestead.com/litters.html
> ...


 I am not 100% but I think you could run a pointing Lab in NAVHDA hunt tests


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

Shotgun Kennel said:


> I am not 100% but I think you could run a pointing Lab in NAVHDA hunt tests



NO you cant.

Just to clarify the planted bird issues I spoke of earlier.

They are just that Planted Birds, do they show natural ability I guess I have not been around enough dogs in dog trials to answer my own questions.

One of my complaints with APLA is that the pointing part is run on planted birds, they dont really have a choice, as they are in the same situation as NAVHDA.....I have seen lots and lots of really nice "POINTING" work done by labs, but they were planted birds, when these dogs hunt wild birds, they dont have the same "point." Just an observation, not being critical. 

I dont know a lot about the Cover Dog game, but it seems to me, to be where it is at, run on wild birds.

Just my .02, I will continue to buy Pointing Labs, with point being my last concern, as I like the breeding programs' from guys like Dale and Steve. They fit my need as a hunter, and thats all that should really matter to anyone.


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## Hevi (May 18, 2004)

jlock said:


> They just seem to be there as a novel piece.


 
I feel the same way about Pointing Labs, Unicorns, Bigfoot, and Nessy. Just my opinion though.



Matt


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## Shotgun Kennel (Feb 9, 2007)

Steelheadfred said:


> NO you cant.
> 
> Just to clarify the planted bird issues I spoke of earlier.
> 
> ...


OK you can't run Labs in NAVHDA. But, I think they should be able to do so. But I disagree about the planted bird issue. If you train your dog to handle planted birds that are not dizzied to the point of being near dead you get birds that will move and run you find out if the dog has a nose. So I guess it depends on how hard they are put down. I like to drop chukars on their head so they will flush if crowded. Most dogs will stay steady on a sleeping bird. One of my complaints with some trials is the dog might not even find a bird and place or win. Does it have a nose The most important part of a good bird dog)? But if it runs nice and carries it's tail correctly and covers enough ground it can win. This is not a criticism just a different game where different things are emphasized.


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

OK, sure I guess.

You cant compare dog work on a chukar dropped on its head, and Wild Ruffed Grouse.


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