# Licensing and Registration of Guides



## Mickey Finn (Jan 21, 2005)

soggybtmboys said:


> You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but doesn't hold alot of water. Responsible, licensed, regulated guiding service are a good avenue for those who need or desire those services should be available. If that were the case, then why allow baiting to start early at all or allow hounds to run bear for training ahead of time.
> 
> Alot of us do commit a week or more when we do come north. 20-24 hours of drive time for a weekend of scouting and setting up bait stations is unreasonable. The money that pours in to the areas when guys comes up helps quite a bit, and the last time I looked, the UP's economy is doing worse than that of downstate and is a needed bump to get local businesses thru till snowsled season.
> 
> Restrictions that you speak of will only further hurt the area and limit hunter opportunity, that is not good for Michigan, or her downstate resident hunters.


Alot of good points here. i would just add a couple.

Jackbob42, brother hunter. Not everyone is as capable as you and I. Some are in poor condition through no fault of their own. I'm refering to vets and disabled persons. Others are just not that woods savy as you are. It is still their resource as well as it is yours or mine. They should be and, if wheel chair ramps and drinking fountains at an akwardly low level are any indication. It's their right to have access to the resource. Guides, expensive as they may become. Fill 
that need. None of us have a right to deny these people their rights.

Also, I wish I had known that you don't have to bait well in advance of your hunt. That would have saved a fair amount of gas.:lol:

ATB


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## dickey3476 (Dec 19, 2005)

hound hunters travel every year to hunt not every two to five years. most start in july and go to the end of season so why is it so impossible for somebody to bait hunt on there own. i live about as far south as you can get and know alot of people that run dogs and they have no problem making it to the u.p. if somebody wants put the time in it can be done. alot of people are looking for the easy route.


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## soggybtmboys (Feb 24, 2007)

dickey3476 said:


> hound hunters travel every year to hunt not every two to five years. most start in july and go to the end of season so why is it so impossible for somebody to bait hunt on there own. i live about as far south as you can get and know alot of people that run dogs and they have no problem making it to the u.p. if somebody wants put the time in it can be done. alot of people are looking for the easy route.


I know quite a few hound hunter and they run down to Kentucky, Pennsylvania, West Virgina, Tennessee to run and train their dogs. Yes you guys do put some big miles on. I don't know any guys running to the west end of the upper pennisula every weekend to run their hounds from down here, its just too far. If there are, they are machines that dont need to sleep. 
To expect a bait hunter to run to the Upper Pennisula to set up a couple of baits in preperation for a hunt a week or two weeks ahead of time is completely unrealistic and your analogy is without merit. I don't think anyone is looking for an easy way out, but considering the distances involved and the out of pocket expenses involved the math makes sense.

There are quite a few of us that do and hunt every year, because we enjoy it and take the back seat for the third hunt in the areas that you can get the third hunt every year. Not all of us are doing it just every 2 -5 years.


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## jackbob42 (Nov 12, 2003)

Mickey Finn said:


> Alot of good points here. i would just add a couple.
> 
> Jackbob42, brother hunter. Not everyone is as capable as you and I. Some are in poor condition through no fault of their own. I'm refering to vets and disabled persons. Others are just not that woods savy as you are. It is still their resource as well as it is yours or mine. They should be and, if wheel chair ramps and drinking fountains at an akwardly low level are any indication. It's their right to have access to the resource. Guides, expensive as they may become. Fill
> that need. None of us have a right to deny these people their rights.
> ...


Sorry , you are absolutely right. I just assumed folks would know that I have no problem with guides for disabled folks. I guess I should have said so in the first place.


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## jackbob42 (Nov 12, 2003)

soggybtmboys said:


> To expect a bait hunter to run to the Upper Pennisula to set up a couple of baits in preperation for a hunt a week or two weeks ahead of time is completely unrealistic and your analogy is without merit.


I don't expect it.
I'm the one who said you don't have to bait ahead of time , remember? :lol:
It's the guides who have folks convinced that you do. :lol:


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## Mickey Finn (Jan 21, 2005)

jackbob42 said:


> Sorry , you are absolutely right. I just assumed folks would know that I have no problem with guides for disabled folks. I guess I should have said so in the first place.


No apology needed. I didn't doubt for a second that your heart was in the right place. When we start talking about changes, some segments of our citizenry need an advocate from time to time. 

ATB


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## dickey3476 (Dec 19, 2005)

soggybtmboys said:


> I know quite a few hound hunter and they run down to Kentucky, Pennsylvania, West Virgina, Tennessee to run and train their dogs. Yes you guys do put some big miles on. I don't know any guys running to the west end of the upper pennisula every weekend to run their hounds from down here, its just too far. If there are, they are machines that dont need to sleep.
> To expect a bait hunter to run to the Upper Pennisula to set up a couple of baits in preperation for a hunt a week or two weeks ahead of time is completely unrealistic and your analogy is without merit. I don't think anyone is looking for an easy way out, but considering the distances involved and the out of pocket expenses involved the math makes sense.
> 
> There are quite a few of us that do and hunt every year, because we enjoy it and take the back seat for the third hunt in the areas that you can get the third hunt every year. Not all of us are doing it just every 2 -5 years.


 

so what you are saying is that there is no way possible at all that i could set a bait up myself and get a bear off of it just bescause i live down state? all the hound hunters i know run off baits during season so how do they pull it off?


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Just a couple comments to add to the discussion....

Soggy, Yoopers are not hogging up all the game in this region. Actually, 70 percent of the bear taken here are by folks from the lower. As for whitetails...won't be long and we'll be traveling down there to deer hunt!

There's a fair number of folks from the lower who own camps here in the western U.P. and I do not know of any who hire a commercial baiter.

I had the good fortune to have a visit from Jerry Keck and Ron Urlic this bear season. They are well know in the bowhunting fraternity. When I asked them if they were hunting with a guiding service they told me
no. They always hunt on their own, and they both live in the lower. 

In good bear country...if you can find such a place, using a good caller scent you stand a real good chance of getting an active bait within about 3 days. So, maybe its time we start to dispell some of the bs commercial operations are putting out to stimulate their business.


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## jackbob42 (Nov 12, 2003)

*From Tennessee......*

2008 BEAR SEASONS - DOGS PERMITTED
Blount, Carter, Cocke, Greene, Johnson, Monroe, Polk (east of Hwy. 411 and north of Hwy. 64), Sevier, Sullivan, Unicoi, Washington. G/M/A - dogs permitted - Nov. 12-15, Nov. 29-Dec. 12. One per year, either sex.

Monroe - G/M/A - dogs permitted - Oct. 8-9, Oct. 20-21. One per year, either sex.

Blount, Cocke (south of I-40), Sevier, - G/M/A - dogs permitted - Sept. 24-30. One per year, either sex.

Prohibited Acts
&#8226;Hunting private property without landowners permission.
&#8226;Hunting prohibited over a site where bait has been placed to feed or attract wildlife unless the bait has been removed at least 10 days prior to hunting.
&#8226;It is illegal to hunt, shoot at, chase, or kill any wild animal, wild bird, or wildfowl from a public road right-of-way, or from any motorized vehicle, or to shoot any firearms across or from any public road or vehicle.

Bear Dog Training Season
&#8226;Cocke, Greene, and Sevier - private land and Cherokee WMA in these counties - Open Sep. 4-17. No bears may be taken. No weapons may be possessed. Daylight hours only.
&#8226;Blount, Carter, Johnson, Sullivan, Unicoi, and Washington - private land only in these counties - Open Sep. 4-17. No bears may be taken. No weapons may be possessed. Daylight hours only.

I'm not even sure if non-residents can train down there. But , if they can , I doubt anyone is going down there with training season opening on Sept. 4th. When we can start running Sept. 15th.

*You cannot use hounds at all in Pennsylvania.*

*Bear isn't even listed as a game animal in Kentucky*

*And this is from West Virginia*..........


Dog Training
The same licenses required for bear hunting are required for the training of dogs on bear. 

*Training for nonresidents may begin October 10, 2009 and continue through February 28, 2010.* 

&#8226;It is unlawful for a person to permit a dog owned by him or under his control to chase, pursue or follow upon the track of any deer or wild turkey. 
&#8226;Residents may train dogs on bear on private land with the landowner&#8217;s written permission, or on public lands, at any time. Prohibitions on Sunday hunting apply to dog training. 
&#8226;Persons training dogs may not have firearms or other implements for the taking of wildlife in their possession during closed seasons on wild animals and birds.
&#8226;A person may not be guilty of hunting without permission just because their dog, without their direction or encouragement, travels onto another person&#8217;s land where they do not have permission to hunt, providing no game is taken, livestock or domestic animals killed or damage done to that property. Dogs may not be retrieved without the landowner&#8217;s permission. 
&#8226;No person other than the owner of a registered dog may remove a tag, collar or other identifying apparel, nor remove or turn off a radio transmitting collar without the permission of the owner, unless it is necessary to prevent or treat an injury to the dog, or is done by a law-enforcement officer for law enforcement purposes.

If training season for non-residents don't open till October 10th , I don't think anybody is going down there either! 

Spreading this crap kinda falls right in there with telling folks they need to bait a month in advance , or telling their clients they didn't see a bear because of hound hunters. :lol::lol::lol:


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## PLUMBDOG (Jun 29, 2009)

I voted yes . however we already have some laws and regulations in place to address some of your concerns. such as hunting and guiding on CFA lands , state land use permit for guiding on state lands . as dicussed before on this fourm the real problem is E-N-F-O-R-E-C-E-M-E-N-T. the state mdnr can't mamage and enforce the laws we have now . but i agree we need to change regulations to better manage bear hunting . I feel this is a 2 part problem . 1 part bear management and 2nd regulating a small business . it will take more than just regulating bear guiding in mich. but all guiding in mich .a bill will have to be written and put on the house floor for a vote to get this done . we need to get some state reps on board and start getting a bill drawn up to adress this problem .it's the only way it will ever happen .we as sportsmen can dicuss this issue until were blue in face and nothing will ever happen until something is brought to the house floor for a vote 

THANX PLUMBDOG


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## skullman (Dec 9, 2008)

I got to agree with lincensing guides, seen to many want 2b's out there. Running dogs in my area is not a good thing do to the terain.

Smile & Wave 

Denis


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