# Heading West with my raft, I don't want to be an A**



## Dr.Roe (Oct 31, 2015)

Hello all!

First off, a quick hello and introduction! My name's Andrew and I'm from way the heck east from you guys with a major problem, I'm a steelhead bum with no steelhead rivers near by, so like any saine man would do, I travel all over to find them. My ''home turf'', and where I was schooled, is the Salmon River, but over the years I've fished as far as the Kispiox (Skeena) up in BC! During the summer time, I guide up in Labrador for killer brookies and LandLocks. 

The Kispiox  









I finally found a buddy who was willing to take a week off in November (15-22th) and hit what I've heard is the best steelhead fishing in the East: Michigan!! I can't tell you how excited I am to make the 14 hour drive! This has been on my bucket list for so long. 

But, first, a couple of questions. The most important one would be; dose Michigan have any unwritten rules, especially regarding drift boats/raft?My my two man inflatable is tagging along and the very last thing I want to do is piss of the locals, or worst piss of the guides. I usually keep my distances from other folks, stay well clear of the area they fish and try to let guides with clients have a go a things first (trust me, I've had fellow anglers screw me over more than once, and I hate it!). So anything specific (besides don't be an ass), do you guys rotate through holes? Fish more than one boat in a hole? etc. Many thanks! 

Secondly, this is more the technical aspect of things, with limited time, I was planing on hitting only 2 rivers: the PM and Big Manistee, but we can drive all over the states, I know this might be asking a bit much, but would you guys care to comment on my river choices? Would you hit another spot instead? 

Finally (and this would be the biggest help) any motel/cabin/room that are angler frendly and cheap I should know about? Any cool local fly shops or restaurants we should check out? 

Many thanks guys,

tight lines


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## Dr.Roe (Oct 31, 2015)

Also! If someone is around during during that week and wants to hang out, first beer is on me!!


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## troutguy26 (Apr 28, 2011)

If you go to the PM make sure you are aware of the regulations on that river and the different sections of it. 

As far as lodging, local shops etc it all depends on where you plan to stay. Have you thought of a town?


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## Dr.Roe (Oct 31, 2015)

troutguy26 said:


> If you go to the PM make sure you are aware of the regulations on that river and the different sections of it.
> 
> As far as lodging, local shops etc it all depends on where you plan to stay. Have you thought of a town?


Thank you for the reply, I'm wrapping my head around the rules and regulations right now. If I understand correctly the PM is fly fishing only from M-37 to Gleasons (excluding beads) and type 4 from Gleason to Rainbow rapid, allowing beads and live bait. Past that would be 3. I'm not retaining any fish, mostly concern about weighting/bait regs.

Manistee is from 612 M-72 bait ban, the rest is ok? (din't read up all the regs on that one!)

For the PM I was thinking of staying around Branch or Baldwin, Mid-river for more flexibility!


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## GettinBucky (Jul 18, 2007)

Not sure what "cheap" is to u but we like to stay at the Lazy Bear cabins in Wellston when fishing the Manistee. The 2 person cabin is $80 night. Full kitchen so it makes ur food options cheaper. Friendly people and clean.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

You can narrow down the Big Manistee river to fishing downstream of Tippy Dam. You should check the regs to see if there are restrictions on fishing with treble hooks that aren't attached to a legit lure. The MIDNR instituted some new restrictions to thwart Salmon snagging this year. I don't really use treble hooks for Steelhead, unless they are on real lures. 

If you are used to fishing the Kispiox, you might be a bit disappointed in our Steelhead. Anymore a 12# Steelhead is a pretty good fish in MI. That river is on my bucket list, because I have friends who have fished it, and their stories just light me all up. I'd love to hit both the Kispiox, and Babine, if I had a chance. Beautiful fish there.


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## FishMichv2 (Oct 18, 2004)

if you stay in the Baldwin area i highly suggest staying with Clint at the Red Moose Lodge. He has a great place there and will likely take the time to help you with info for both the PM and Big Manistee. The PM is my all time favorite river to spend time on so enjoy.


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## Boardman Brookies (Dec 20, 2007)

The date you choose should be perfect. Out firearms deer season starts on the 15th so I can imagine you are going to see very few guys out.


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## flyrodder46 (Dec 31, 2011)

Your planned trip is at the start of the Michigan firearms deer season, so make sure you bring Flo. Orange. At least hats and maybe a vest. If floating it wouldn't hurt to have something on the boat itself. As for a place to stay, in Baldwin check out Cloud Nine Motel, nice cabins with kitchens and the owner is a guide and great guy, he will help you out I am sure. There are 2 good fly shops in Baldwin, both are also guides in the area, and could be of help. For a spotting service on the PM use Veterans Spotting, Bill is a nice guy and donates a portion of his fee to Vet's 231-898-4644. Another river to check out would be the Muskegon, lots of water and some pretty good fishing, a place to stay there is Cronk's Inn, just south of Newaygo. There is a nice fly shop on the south side also, the Muskegon River Fly Shop, great people there to talk to. For spotting just ask at the fly shop. Hope you enjoy yourselves, and maybe I will see you.

D


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## Dr.Roe (Oct 31, 2015)

Thank you all for the replies! 

Awesome coincidence, more water for us!! Noted for the orange markers. 

@GettinBucky: thanks that in our price range and will look into them

@Fishndude: if you want info for the Kis/Bul PM me, I'm by no means an expert, but pulled off a couple of great self guided trips for cheap! Not using any trebles, or barbs for that matter, thanks for the heads up!

@FishMichv2: noted will give him a call

@flyrodder46: Thanks for the car spotting, that was my follow up question. Mmmm... the Muskegon is also so tempting!!

Muskegon or Manistee?!


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## piscatorial warrior (Sep 14, 2011)

Good Luck wherever you go. I hope you enjoy this beautiful state of ours and all she has to offer.


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## tsr770 (Mar 3, 2010)

The PM is a beautiful river to fish for sure, and if your looking for a scenic trip it is a must. But if you are looking for sheer numbers of fish, the Big Manistee and the Muskegon are the ticket, and if you enjoy the big waters of the West those 2 are going to be the closest you will get! Most of the guides and locals are pretty easy going and won't be a problem, but there are some pushy ones out there too as always... most importantly have a blast in our wonderful state!

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Dr.Roe (Oct 31, 2015)

How deep are the rivers? I usually bring 35' of rope to anchor.


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## jd_speed (Jul 22, 2014)

Dr.Roe said:


> How deep are the rivers? I usually bring 35' of rope to anchor.


You'll have plenty with 35.


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## AdamBradley (Mar 13, 2008)

My advice, you're here for a week! Hit all 3, pm, big man, and the muskegon. Each has a "flavor" of its own, and all 3 are great steel streams. I personally haven't heard too much for guys targeting them on the pm, but some around for sure..., but muskegon and big man already have fish going in the lower stretches, with some scattered in the upper. Your dates should be great... for places to eat/stay of my personal opinion.... Northwoods cabins on manistee, traks bar/grill.... pm, good advice already...muskegon, cronks hotel, sportsman's for grub..... 35' should do you well, depending on weight of anchor/boat/flow at the time. Sounds comfortable to me though.


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## AdamBradley (Mar 13, 2008)

As for specific question of depth, depends on the access point. Lower stretches of all 3 are deep. Muskegon and big man 6 foot plus, with runs up to 20 feet deep, pm, a little less. Upper stretches of all 3, less than a few feet, but with holes peppered in that are several feet deep.


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## milanmark (Apr 10, 2012)

Boardman Brookies said:


> The date you choose should be perfect. Out firearms deer season starts on the 15th so I can imagine you are going to see very few guys out.


Bring some hunter orange to wear for safety!


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## Lake Erie Monster (Nov 7, 2012)

Big Mo River house up River from Newaygo is in a great location on the Muskegon. You can dump in and float back to the cabin fishing some of the best sections of the river. The owner is a member of this forum and an avid fisherman. Great view out the back wall of windows in his cabin.


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## flyrodder46 (Dec 31, 2011)

One word of caution, the ramps on the upper part of the PM may need extra rope to pull the boat out. Green Cottage ramp is steep from the water to the trailer , and Gleason's Landing is a long haul from the water to the trailer over log rollers. Most guy's carry about 100' of rope for this one. All the other ramps on the rivers are pretty straight forward.

D


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## Dr.Roe (Oct 31, 2015)

flyrodder46 said:


> One word of caution, the ramps on the upper part of the PM may need extra rope to pull the boat out. Green Cottage ramp is steep from the water to the trailer , and Gleason's Landing is a long haul from the water to the trailer over log rollers. Most guy's carry about 100' of rope for this one. All the other ramps on the rivers are pretty straight forward.
> 
> D


Awsome, thanks for the heads up, running a FishCat 13, thankfully it's not too heavy!


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

Alot of good suggestions.

IMHO, for a 2 man toon, the PM will be the better experience. Most of that river (to Indian Bridge) is no motors and thus you will be on pretty much equal terms with any drift boats you might encounter. Morever, most all of the spots you will fish in the upstream area from Indian Bridge you will be able to jump off the toon and wade.

Both the Manistee and Muskegon are larger rivers where powerboats are predominant. Most of the boat operators are courteous, but it only takes one or two jerks to make a bad day. Many but not all of the spots you will fish on these rivers are not necessarily fished best or even amenable to wading. Depending how you are fishing, having a good anchoring system is a must. Not that you can't fish two guys from the toon (I have one the same size), and guys do use them on that river, but be advised,

As far as a place to stay, you got some good suggestions. Depending on your budget, another great place is Barothy Lodge right on the water between Walhalla and Lower Branch (Mid River). http://www.barothylodge.com/ Most of the lodges are for bigger groups, but they do have the Log Cabin, which is perfect for two people. I know going for a week, it's nice to have a cabin type accomodation to have room the spread out, dry gear and have somewhere to cook.

As far as river etiquette, it sounds like you have it down. One thing that typically tees people off is low holing, which is setting up downstream of an already anchored boat to the point of impeding their drifts. Depending on the crowd and size of the hole, if someone is already working it, I usually keep on moving.

Lastly, regarding private property/posted land, as long as your feet are in the water when you're wading, your legal

Have fun on your trip.


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## Dr.Roe (Oct 31, 2015)

Thanks for the info, the boats is nicely set up for fishing with appropriate anchor systems. I've run her a lot in the past couple of season and know her capacities well! 

Your post confirms the thoughts regarding the PM, regardless of the quantity of fish she holds, really looking for a couple of good fun drift, rather hit less fish and see less anglers than the opposite!


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## JB85 (Nov 2, 2010)

PM sent


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## michiganmaniac (Dec 9, 2008)

What type of fishing will you be doing? Spey fishing, nymphing, or conventional(center pin/spinning)? Each river due to size and types of runs and holes, is conducive to different type of fishing.

For the pm- nymphing works really well, and you can swing but the river is pretty tight and you can only swing fish a few of the spots. Something you should try on that river is stripping streamers for steelhead, which will also get you browns. It's a whole different experience from normal Spey/streamer fishing and you can cover all the water.

The muskegon- my favorite Spey fishing water in the state. However some of the runs are so big that they are tough to nymph effectively, you will see a lot of guys with floats and spinning gear or centerpins to cover this water.

The big manistee- once again has a lot of great Spey water but can be tough to nymph. Not saying people don't do it, but when you have a deep and very long run it can be tough to keep the flies drag free, once again this water is easily fished with conventional tackle. 

Just so you know sort of what to expect on each of these rivers. Either way, they are all very beautiful and have lots of fish at the right time! Also, pompeis pizza in Baldwin is really good, as is barksi A few miles north of Baldwin on m37.


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## flyrodder46 (Dec 31, 2011)

I will 2nd Barski's, great Paroki's . sic

D


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## busket (Jan 5, 2009)

Make sure to bring some BIG trout streamers and chuck those between the holes you will be stopping at to wade. This is a great time of year to find some of the bigger browns out in the open during the day.


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## Fish Eye (Mar 30, 2007)

I'll only address 2 issues you've raised. The first being pool rotation. Pool rotation is not practiced in Michigan. The Michigan mentality is arriving as early as possible and squatting in the run all day. This will not be as big of an issue for you as you're not fishing during the Salmon (what's left of it) and Steelhead run. The second issue is floating the Big Manistee in a raft. On the BM, we use aluminum boats, motors, anchor winches and heavy chain. 90% of this river is too deep to wade. Most places, especially the lower river, your first step off the bank will put you into 6 feet of water. Guide boats anchor off and have their clients cast from boats. The motor gives you an option of being able to move up and down the river, scouting water, passing runs that others are fishing, or returning to these runs later in the day. I'd swap out the raft for a row boat or Jon boat with a motor. I'm not sure anyone on the Big Manistee would spot your car/trailer for you either. Keep moving and keep your flies wet. Good luck...


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## saltydog47 (Apr 29, 2011)

Dr.Roe said:


> Hello all!
> 
> First off, a quick hello and introduction! My name's Andrew and I'm from way the heck east from you guys with a major problem, I'm a steelhead bum with no steelhead rivers near by, so like any saine man would do, I travel all over to find them. My ''home turf'', and where I was schooled, is the Salmon River, but over the years I've fished as far as the Kispiox (Skeena) up in BC! During the summer time, I guide up in Labrador for killer brookies and LandLocks.
> 
> ...


If you guys are catch and release you may want to contact Jon who has a cabin on Bear Creek which is the major tributary of the Big Manistee feeding in from the North. He could be reached at 231.590.1136 and he is dyed in the wool catch and release. This location would be about 15 minutes north of the Big Manistee and the launch at Highbridge road.


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## Boardman Brookies (Dec 20, 2007)

cowboy48098 said:


> I wouldn't wear bright orange on the river. I'm more worried about my beer getting warm than some hunter shooting my ass down at the river. Don't be pussies people it's pathetic.


Really? Wow. I am more worried about drunken idiots shooting at anything that moves than the fashion police or looking cool. It is not about someone being a "*****" it is about coming home at the end of the day........


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## cowboy48098 (Aug 20, 2015)

Boardman Brookies said:


> Really? Wow. I am more worried about drunken idiots shooting at anything that moves than the fashion police or looking cool. It is not about someone being a "*****" it is about coming home at the end of the day........


Lol, to each there own buddy. See you down at the River. I'm always in my camo. Good luck!


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## Boardman Brookies (Dec 20, 2007)

cowboy48098 said:


> Lol, to each there own buddy. See you down at the River. I'm always in my camo. Good luck!


Test that theory during rifle season by walking down the path to the river in front of a CO decked out in camo, you might be a little lighter in the pocket.


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## cowboy48098 (Aug 20, 2015)

Boardman Brookies said:


> Test that theory during rifle season by walking down the path to the river in front of a CO decked out in camo, you might be a little lighter in the pocket.


I have for 20 + years,if I get a ticket one day...OH WELL!!! Cheaper than child support.


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## johnnie555 (Jan 25, 2005)

Boardman Brookies said:


> Test that theory during rifle season by walking down the path to the river in front of a CO decked out in camo, you might be a little lighter in the pocket.


Since when is it against the law to fish and wear camo? Last I knew there isn't a law on camo wearing. If he's fishing, he's fishing. He can wear whatever floats his boat.


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## Boardman Brookies (Dec 20, 2007)

johnnie555 said:


> Since when is it against the law to fish and wear camo? Last I knew there isn't a law on camo wearing. If he's fishing, he's fishing. He can wear whatever floats his boat.


I am not going to derail the OP thread. During firearm season, for safety, you should have on some hunter orange.....


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## MIfishslayer91 (Dec 24, 2013)

haha wear blaze orange to go fishing! Should probably wear a helmet too since your going to be in a boat.


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## JB85 (Nov 2, 2010)

Not too worrisome floating the PM, you are at the bottom of the river valley and form the most part, the hunting activity is above you. I would still wear some orange when floating, however, I can't imagine tromping through the woods with no orange on the last 2 weeks of November.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

I would wear the orange, I got shot at by a duck hunter while fishing. No orange at the time but he knew that I was there a duck flew my way and he shot. Fortunate I hit the dirt prior to the gunshot.


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## carsonr2 (Jan 15, 2009)

I would also wear some orange...doesn't mean you need to be covered head to toe, but wearing a hat during firearm deer season is a smart thing imo. To poke fun of someone for wanting to be safe is ridiculous.

BTW, there will be float hunters and hunters in the lowlands along ALL of the rivers....P.M., Big Man. Little Man., you name it. They don't all stick to up on the ridges, and I know a couple who will be walking ridges looking at shooting into the lowlands.....good to have some orange so you are readily seen if in the background.


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## RobW (Dec 6, 2012)

Makin' fun of someone in the bush during hunting season because they have orange on is weaksauce.


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## JungleGeorge (Apr 18, 2013)

I was on the pm and had several hunters pass me while I was fishing, they went off the main river


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## AWPREEFKEEPER (Jun 8, 2012)

AWPREEFKEEPER said:


> If your a serious angler, check out Stealthcraft Boats at Batchkes Baldwin Creek Lodge!


Talk to Mike about boats and prolly the best to give you insights on fish, if you can hunt down Steve Cornett he's a steel chasing maniac!


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## Dr.Roe (Oct 31, 2015)

Thank you for the replies got into a few today! Lower to Whalhalla.

I'll update periodically, for day to day add me on Instagram @murphy_fly


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## AdamBradley (Mar 13, 2008)

Glad to hear! Welcome to michigan!


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

Nice raft!! If you stopped by for oars, hopefully Mike didn't pull your chain (jk) on floating out there with a "kid's pool toy" now that he's making rafts.:lol::cwm27:


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## flyrodder46 (Dec 31, 2011)

Glad to hear that you found a few fish yesterday, that stretch of river is a beauty to float. Keep the reports coming on your efforts. Enjoy the river and all it has to offer, hope this weather doesn't put a kink in your trip.

D


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## JungleGeorge (Apr 18, 2013)

Over a foot of snow coming ?!? I'll be up there for that. Thanks for the updates Euhhhhhhhooooooo


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## Dr.Roe (Oct 31, 2015)

fishing is still steady, bit of water today


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## JungleGeorge (Apr 18, 2013)

Got up today at 3 pm fished til dark went 1/3 got my dad his first steelhead ! 9lb buck rosy cheeks


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## Dr.Roe (Oct 31, 2015)

Back home, full post in the next few days thanks all for the tips!


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## SteelieArm14 (Jan 6, 2012)

Where's the full post?!? Curious how your trip went.


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## Dr.Roe (Oct 31, 2015)

Arg! On my mind, got to write it! Promise before next Monday


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## SteelieArm14 (Jan 6, 2012)

Cool. Looking forward to the read and hopefully some pics.


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## Dr.Roe (Oct 31, 2015)

Alright! 


Ended up driving all night and crossed the border by sun up on Sunday (so no, we din’t hit any deers haha). 

Drove the rest of day around checking out the river, launches and shops (stopped into Pere Marquette and BBT). Also dropped in The Bottle and Can (being an on-off bartender it’s imperative that I find local spirits), cool little spots selling good craft stuff and some fishing gear! Had a sip of Traverse City Co. Burton (good stuff, maybe too smooth), passed out by 3pm. 











First day was fun, took the boat down from Rainbow Rapids to Sulak. Not much fishing done, got on the water super late (10:30am) and spent to much time fishing high up (it was 1pm when we left Rainbow Rapids after lunch). Rowed and casted left and right, picked up a few resident bows and browns. 











Second day we had a run from Lower Branch Bridge to Walhalla another late start at around 9am, got a lot more water covered but again spent to much time in iffy holes. We crossed path with bank anglers by late afternoon and asked if we where far off from Walhalla; a couple of bends away he said, 10-15min max. Turns out we were several bends away from Barothy. Ended up rowing in the dark for 30 min, good think we do our hex hatch at night back home haha. Again, a couple of residents but no chromers!











Third day we got an early start and hit the same stretch. Got a few hits left and right, had some good head shakes but our game felt off. Lunch reviled the true horror my buddy had brought along; bananas, a whole bunch of them, ripe and sitting at the bottom the dry box FOR THE LAST THREE DAYS. Who in there right mind brings bananas on a ship of any kind? 









The bananas were laid to rest and not 30min later I landed my first chromer, a good hen of 8-9 pounds that gave me a great fight. She got away before the photos. A few bends later I picked up another one. 










Fun day for sure


Next morning we hit Rainbow to Sulak, picked up 1 good hen and lost two more, plus a few browns (hey no bananas). Rained a lot. 










Shared the stretch with one other boat, who instead of threatening to slash my tubes like in NY, offered a glass of scotch. Nice change from nice people up there.













On Friday we took a hard call, my buddy had yet to hit chrome, a storm was rolling in and the fish were spread thin (from my point of view and from the on water reports we got anyways). A few phone calls to my buddies in NY revealed a similar story but water was being bumped up past 500 CFS for the first time this season with should of meant good fishing. 


It was a though call and if it wasn’t for the storm we would have stayed around in my book, but unfortunately we packed early and headed back for a week-end of fishing in NY. We hit Barski the night before (glorious as all of you said) met some cool dudes and stopped in at stealthcraft for oars and a new anchor. 


Long story short, fishing was ok on the Oswego boating up in, ironically my buddy’s decked out Kenai, the Salmon SUCKED (and still dose as of last week-end) on Sunday. Called quits and left that evening. 











But back to Michigan it was AWSOME, the best steelheading I’ve had since BC, fish fought hard, the river was a riot to float, fish and see and the people we met were terrific. We will be back, most likely during the spring run. After that, I’d love to see it in the summer!!









Thank you all for the info, the trip was so much fun!


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## troutguy26 (Apr 28, 2011)

Cool write up! Looks like you guys enjoyed your stay.


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## SteelieArm14 (Jan 6, 2012)

Cool man, glad you guys enjoyed it. The PM is a great river to spend time on. Cool write up and we will see us in the spring.


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## flyrodder46 (Dec 31, 2011)

Great post, thank you for the update. I'm glad you enjoyed your trip and found a few fish(after the yellow scourge was properly disposed of). Do hope you make it back for a second trip, PM is an awesome river.

D


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

I think you could make a couple different floats on the Big Man with that tube, if you wanted to. More, and bigger boats to contend with, and most people fish from an anchored position. But you could make it work on a Tippy-High Bridge, or High Bridge - Bear Creek, or Bear Creek - Rainbow Bend float. 

I saw a recent (Nov '15) video of a Steelhead excursion on the Catt - a river I have been interested in for quite a while. The guys who filmed it caught quite a few fish, but not a fish was over about 4#. Somehow that isn't my idea of great Steelhead fishing, although it looked like fun. They walked about 4 miles of river, and fished some really cool looking spots. I kept waiting for the nice fish, but they didn't happen. 

The PM is a true gem, and is supported by natural reproduction - in its main branch, and some tribs. Glad you enjoyed your visit. Our licenses (annual) don't run on a calendar year. They run April 1 - March 31. If you bought an annual license, it is probably good through March 2016. March is a great time to buy a new annual license, too. 

Hexing the PM in June is legendary, and Mousin in late July, through August is great fun. The Ausable mainstream, near Grayling is very similar, without the anadromous fish. Lots of true trophy river Browns in both rivers, as well as the upper stretches of the Big Man - which also originates near Grayling.


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