# skam or regular steelhead?



## riverdawg54 (Aug 27, 2012)

How does one know if its a skam or a regular steelhead?

I have caught alot of steel from the upper Grand this fall and some have been short and fat and some have been real long and skinny .Some have been silver and some have some red on them and one male I caught on Saturday was over 30" long but was very skinny and he had two bright red stripes on him.

does anyone know?


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## steelton (Jan 29, 2012)

I've been told that skams in the river this time of year get real dark almost like a kang, but then again a fall run that is caught nearing the spring fling will look the same way.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Well that's not a tough one without a picture!.. haha... long and skinny can indicate Skamania... short and fat could mean Umpqua...Rogue...Silets...Mich. Strain...

We need a picture!..... you could also Google Steelhead pictures and possibly come to a conclusion of your own too!....

Summer runs are typically first to spawn... as early as late Jan. Feb. for sure... so finding Chromers is fairly common when condition are right...


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## riverbob (Jan 11, 2011)

can't tell for sure without pic, but if it was a hen i would think the maturity of the eggs would tell u something. ps glad to here u have done so well on the upper grand, as for me it has been the worst fall season for steel i have seen in the last 10 years, when i went below 6th st., i never got skunked on steel. the walleye fishing,below has been one of my best....... just goes to show ya, their bitting somewhere.


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## Roger That (Nov 18, 2010)

Caught a black spawned out female steel last week.... December spawners bro


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## riverdawg54 (Aug 27, 2012)

Here is something interesting that happened today.We caught a nice red stripped male about 6 pounds plugging and my friend wanted it to eat so I put it on my rope stringer to bleed it out and I noticed it had a mouth and throat full of salmon eggs.I would say there were 8 to 10 large sized eggs.

King salmon spawning in the river this late in the year?

I have not heard of anyone getting a king salmon fishing for steel in the Grand River this fall or winter?Must of been king salmon eggs or maybe coho?We were along ways from any dam and I thought all the salmon were dead by now.These eggs were much larger than steelhead eggs that you see in the spring.They were nice big eggs like you get from kings on the PM in September


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## danimalt14 (Aug 30, 2012)

Roger That said:


> Caught a black spawned out female steel last week.... December spawners bro



You wouldnt happen to have a pic of that fish would you??


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## Roger That (Nov 18, 2010)

riverdawg54 said:


> Here is something interesting that happened today.We caught a nice red stripped male about 6 pounds plugging and my friend wanted it to eat so I put it on my rope stringer to bleed it out and I noticed it had a mouth and throat full of salmon eggs.I would say there were 8 to 10 large sized eggs.
> 
> King salmon spawning in the river this late in the year?
> 
> I have not heard of anyone getting a king salmon fishing for steel in the Grand River this fall or winter?Must of been king salmon eggs or maybe coho?We were along ways from any dam and I thought all the salmon were dead by now.These eggs were much larger than steelhead eggs that you see in the spring.They were nice big eggs like you get from kings on the PM in September




Chum...


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## Roger That (Nov 18, 2010)

danimalt14 said:


> You wouldnt happen to have a pic of that fish would you??


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## riverdawg54 (Aug 27, 2012)

Was that you I saw fishing today?Fishing spawn with a pin setup?In a Sea Ark with a 40 Mercury Jet?


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## riverbob (Jan 11, 2011)

Roger That said:


>


my goodness that's a ruff lookin steelie. did she fight or just give up


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## Roger That (Nov 18, 2010)

riverdawg54 said:


> Was that you I saw fishing today?Fishing spawn with a pin setup?In a Sea Ark with a 40 Mercury Jet?


Not me, I have a deep v and a drift boat.

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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Did you open that fish or put it back.... I've caught ol'Doe's that were dry, not producing anymore and had shriveled - not fully re-absorbed eggs in them (very few) as well..... Fall spawners..... few and far though...

I would imagine the eggs in the mouth of the fish you caught were Brown eggs... quite a few of them around there with the plants in the R.... recently



Roger That said:


>


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## Jones (Mar 5, 2010)

riverdawg54 said:


> Here is something interesting that happened today.We caught a nice red stripped male about 6 pounds plugging and my friend wanted it to eat so I put it on my rope stringer to bleed it out and I noticed it had a mouth and throat full of salmon eggs.I would say there were 8 to 10 large sized eggs.
> 
> King salmon spawning in the river this late in the year?
> 
> I have not heard of anyone getting a king salmon fishing for steel in the Grand River this fall or winter?Must of been king salmon eggs or maybe coho?We were along ways from any dam and I thought all the salmon were dead by now.These eggs were much larger than steelhead eggs that you see in the spring.They were nice big eggs like you get from kings on the PM in September


You must've been fishing downstream from a guide.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Steelie on my wall was a skam, confirmed by fin clips as a 7 year old Indiana plant.

29.5" / 15.77#. Literal foot ball.

I've caught several steelies in the 32" range and even a 35" spawned out fall back hen, but nothing again more than 14.5#....

So the assumption that all skams are long and skinny is false.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

That fish in the picture is what we call a "ZOMBIE" throw it back.:yikes::lol:


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## Roger That (Nov 18, 2010)

I threw that fish back but gave it a squeeze or two first.... Definitely skeinless.... Skeinless in Seattle

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## DReihl9896 (Nov 20, 2012)

Don't know if this holds 100% true all of the time, but I watched a program where a guide from the Pacific Northwest compared Skam v non-Skam steelies and claimed that one distinguishing feature of Skamania strain steelhead is that the transition from the grey on the tops of their backs to their silver flanks forms a much more definitive line, while it is much more gradual transition on other steelhead strains. Truthfully, I can't even remember exactly what program this was on either, only that I went back and looked through some old pictures of fish that were caught in June and July and compared them to fish caught in the spring and that it seemed to hold up. Might be a little harder to tell on fish that have darkened up that much though.


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## riverdawg54 (Aug 27, 2012)

Thanks guys for all the info

How many differant strains of steelheads are there in the Grand River?

I have never seen any with clipped fins,maybe I have over looked that?


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## DReihl9896 (Nov 20, 2012)

riverdawg54 said:


> Thanks guys for all the info
> 
> How many differant strains of steelheads are there in the Grand River?
> 
> I have never seen any with clipped fins,maybe I have over looked that?


The only strain listed as being stocked in the Grand are Michigan (Manistee) strain. Any Skamania are strays from Indiana or from the Manistee. Eagle Lake strain is another variety that is stocked in the Muskegon and I assume some of those stray as well. The fish stocking database also lists which fins are clipped if at all. 

http://www.michigandnr.com/fishstock/


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Skamania have good natural production and can be found in most any suitable river/creek now. I'm confident there are other varieties that were once tried and also have breeding populations, though relatively small.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

METTLEFISH said:


> Skamania have good natural production and can be found in most any suitable river/creek now. I'm confident there are other varieties that were once tried and also have breeding populations, though relatively small.


 From looking at shapes, sizes, and color patterns at the ones that we have caught in the UP I would say that many of them have some cross breeding. Skamania are one of the more common ones but they prefer to stay out in the lake in the summer except NWLP streams


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Robert Holmes said:


> From looking at shapes, sizes, and color patterns at the ones that we have caught in the UP I would say that many of them have some cross breeding. Skamania are one of the more common ones but they prefer to stay out in the lake in the summer except NWLP streams


 
A friend lives in Indiana... they (Skamania) stack up out in the lake til a good rain, then storm "the" creek.... same @ the Joe.. they stack up in the troughs around the pier heads then after a good rain shoot the river. I agree with crossing... I see lots of fish looking like Rogue, Umpua & Silets, some appear to be solid strain too. If only Michigan was a true cold water State!


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

METTLEFISH said:


> A friend lives in Indiana... they (Skamania) stack up out in the lake til a good rain, then storm "the" creek.... same @ the Joe.. they stack up in the troughs around the pier heads then after a good rain shoot the river. I agree with crossing... I see lots of fish looking like Rogue, Umpua & Silets, some appear to be solid strain too. If only Michigan was a true cold water State!


 Mettlefish you need to eliminate some pm's


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## jrv (Nov 11, 2008)

METTLEFISH said:


> Skamania have good natural production and can be found in most any suitable river/creek now. I'm confident there are other varieties that were once tried and also have breeding populations, though relatively small.


In all of the past research I've looked at has said that there's little to no reproduction going on w/ summer steel. Have they changed the strain? I was always told that they go through the motions, but they don't reproduce. 

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

jrv said:


> In all of the past research I've looked at has said that there's little to no reproduction going on w/ summer steel. Have they changed the strain? I was always told that they go through the motions, but they don't reproduce.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


 
That would be incorrect... they are a viable spawner....


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## skamaniac97 (Feb 17, 2009)

The skams ive been catching out of a sw trib have no skeins or milt in them. Not one in the 4 years ive fished there.

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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

ive caught a lot of skams with eggs in the grand. from august to sept. seen spawning fish is late jan and feb i assume were skams in certain creeks. the grand got a huge skam run this year and were huge pods in isolated areas. riverdawg i have a good idea of the area you are fishing and there have been a lot of skams around since july. too bad the fall run is nothing like last year. 

btw shoot me a pm if your interested in fishing the upper grand. i dont have a boat, but i got spots.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jrv (Nov 11, 2008)

I started reading some more articles and most of them said that limited reproduction occurs. If the water goes above 70%, then they probably don't stand much of a chance. But a MI strand probably doesn't either. 
I hope more and more fish make it, I love catching steelhead in the rivers in July! 

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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

I have made educated guesses about Manistee vs Skamania strains many times, but they were still only guesses. I would say the small hens I have caught at Tippy dam in July, which were spitting eggs, were probably Manistee strain fish spawning late. I would guess that the long slender looking "torpedoes" I have caught in summer, from piers, are mostly Skams. I would guess that the more hump-backed fish I catch in many rivers in fall/winter are Manistee strains. But only someone who knows how to properly analyze scale samples, or perform DNA testing, knows for sure.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Fishndude said:


> I have made educated guesses about Manistee vs Skamania strains many times, but they were still only guesses. I would say the small hens I have caught at Tippy dam in July, which were spitting eggs, were probably Manistee strain fish spawning late. I would guess that the long slender looking "torpedoes" I have caught in summer, from piers, are mostly Skams. I would guess that the more hump-backed fish I catch in many rivers in fall/winter are Manistee strains. But only someone who knows how to properly analyze scale samples, or perform DNA testing, knows for sure.


 
True, however if you look up Umpqua, Rogue, Siletz, those strains have certain shapes that are synonomous with themselves....


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## Catfish keats (Jun 16, 2012)

Robert Holmes said:


> From looking at shapes, sizes, and color patterns at the ones that we have caught in the UP I would say that many of them have some cross breeding. Skamania are one of the more common ones but they prefer to stay out in the lake in the summer except NWLP streams


Caught two skamania in Late July and in August in the Kzoo


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## SALMOTRUTTA (Nov 10, 2010)

http://poseidonflies.wordpress.com/2010/03/19/steelhead-101/
this is a little informative peice on all the different strains of steelhead stocked into lake michigan. it might be a little dated but still interesting none the less.


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

I guess sometimes, perhaps things might not be what we assume. Alot of us always thought we were proficient in ID'ing fish, but those who have the methods to really identify with much more certainty can give one a reason to at least not be so sure. 

I remember on another site, there was a fisheries bio major whose doctoral thesis involved steelhead, alot of which involved shocking and identification. I remember him stating how there was more variation in body types for the various steelhead strains than one would assume. 

Also, relative to the skamania spawning issue, I once had a discussion about this with a UM fisheries asst prof. who's done and/or mentored quite a bit of work on steelhead in MI, especially on the FERC rivers. He indicated they weren't seeing natural reproduction on skams, at least during the timeframe in which the river surveys were performed. I am not saying it doesn't happen or can't happen, but more definitive verification to alot of those questions (like is there, where and how much) by our biologists seems to be lacking.

ST, thanks for the link, it looks like the author was speaking of strains that were stocked by Wisconsin into Lake Michigan at the time of the blog. However, of note, Michigan strain (Little Manistees) were missed.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Michigan nor Indiana recieve Annual eggs from Washington for these fish. It was a one shot deal. I believe they utilize the same technique of gathering and fertilization. I had never read/heard that they were a cross til Multispeciestamer informed me of that last fall, he says they are a cross from two different Rivers, some information says otherwise. 

Regardless - when you cross a Steelhead with Steelhead you get a Steelhead. Below is one link I found in the past few minutes when looking for the cross Multi refered to.

http://www.nwisteelheaders.org/page4.html

I learned something new here in that they DID recieve more than one shipment of eggs...always good to learn something!....


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

SALMOTRUTTA said:


> http://poseidonflies.wordpress.com/2010/03/19/steelhead-101/
> this is a little informative peice on all the different strains of steelhead stocked into lake michigan. it might be a little dated but still interesting none the less.


Well that for sure is not consistent (link) with what I have read over the decades... all Summer run fish's (primary) spawn is in early/mid Winter, it is thought they enter the river early as most have spawning grounds far inland, some into Idaho. I have never seen polished gravel or a Redd in the Summer months.. late spring yes.


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

I have come across to my knowledge two different body forms of Skamania strain Steelhead. Most are your typical elongate torpedo shaped. The other are fish with very wide shoulders and immense girth (stocky/ yet balanced with length). The State records for Steelhead of most the Great lakes States are the second body form the Stocky Skamania. I am sure there is other body forms present with summer steelhead, some of which may yet to be discover or evolved yet. Typically Skamania Steelhead have to swim great distance in the Pacific Northwest homeland to reach the spawning grounds a great many miles up fast flowing rivers. Only the fit survive and make it to these spawning grounds this led to the isolation of the long torpedo shaped body becoming the dominant body(gene) form of these fish. But in the Great Lakes the environment is much more forgiving on these fish then their home waters, so we start to see other genes passed on and continued to be passed on so we see body forms that we would not normally see in true native fish. Skamania do have the potential to spawn, as most(if not all) the current plants here come from fish returning to the St. Joseph and Indiana Streams/rivers which are captured for broodstock. As far as I am aware (off the top my head, dont quote me on this) all current Skamania Strain hatchery Steelhead are clipped or have some form of major wear on fins from being raising in tight hatchery conditions. So to find a true fish with perfect condition fins the chances of that happening are slim from the hatchery so it is fare to assume it is most likely a wild spawned fish. When Skamania enter the river in the summer they are not yet ready to spawn, they will continue to develop there sexual parts as they make their way up the rivers.


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

Roger That said:


> I threw that fish back but gave it a squeeze or two first.... Definitely skeinless.... Skeinless in Seattle
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


So you gave it a few squeezes and nothing came out so that makes you think just because of that it was a spawned out female? :banghead3

Almost any steelhead dark or not you squeeze this time of year nothing is going to come out Roger. So to think just because you squeezed it and nothing came out and you felt nothing that this was an already spawned out steelhead is just simply wrong. 

Fall spawning steelhead are possible, cant say I have ever came across any. I have seen dark skinny fish with eggs still tight and maturing inside yet though.


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

https://www.google.com/search?q=Was...sugexp=chrome,mod=12&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Some interesting links in that google search.


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## mdj (Oct 1, 2005)

One thing we notice alot in our Indiana fish is a mangled dorsel. Something about the way their raised in the hatcheries. Not all of them, but it shows up alot, just food for thought on the posters original question. Heres a couple lake caught skams.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

The swept Dorsal is from running back and forth under the baffles in the hatcheries. The meaning of the word Skamania is "Swift Water" in native American. I catch quite a few un-scared Skamania's.... especially in the Betsie & Big Manistee. I also am confused as to iether detecting the presense of Row or lack of Row from a squeeze...except when neering or @ ripe....


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## itchn2fish (Dec 15, 2005)

Even when you clean them side-by-side, the spots vary, skin coloring varies, and even the flesh color varies. Now to check out those cool links.........troooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut!!!!!!!!


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## wartfroggy (Jan 25, 2007)

Multispeciestamer said:


> https://www.google.com/search?q=Was...sugexp=chrome,mod=12&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
> 
> Some interesting links in that google search.


 
Holy Smokes. That has to be one of the longest Google Searches I have seen. I usually just throw in some key words, that is pretty much an entire sentence.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Skamanias got their name from the Skamania Hatchery, on the Washougal River, in Washington State. The State of WA decided to raise summer-running Steelhead in the hatchery, to support more year-round fisheries in rivers that didn't feature naturally summer-running strains of Steelhead. The strain was a cross between two different strains of summer-running Steelhead which were native to two different rivers. The Skamania strain is essentially a man-made strain of fish, which are best maintained through hatchery production. Some surely do spawn, but not a lot of them. If they did, the Little Man and PM would be full of them every year, as they are with Manistee strain Steelhead, during their spawning time.


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

Fishndude said:


> Skamanias got their name from the Skamania Hatchery, on the Washougal River, in Washington State. The State of WA decided to raise summer-running Steelhead in the hatchery, to support more year-round fisheries in rivers that didn't feature naturally summer-running strains of Steelhead. The strain was a cross between two different strains of summer-running Steelhead which were native to two different rivers. The Skamania strain is essentially a man-made strain of fish, which are best maintained through hatchery production. Some surely do spawn, but not a lot of them. If they did, the Little Man and PM would be full of them every year, as they are with Manistee strain Steelhead, during their spawning time.


Native Summer run Steelhead on the Pacific coast are listed as threatened in the Endangered Species Act in most of their native range. Not sure if they were already threatened when they started the Skamania Program in the 1950s but it was around that time when the Pacific fishery was at a roller coaster of ups and downs.


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## DReihl9896 (Nov 20, 2012)

Multispeciestamer said:


> Native Summer run Steelhead on the Pacific coast are listed as threatened in the Endangered Species Act in most of their native range. Not sure if they were already threatened when they started the Skamania Program in the 1950s but it was around that time when the Pacific fishery was at a roller coaster of ups and downs.


This doesn't make sense to me. I know one tact used to try to stop the mine project in the UP was to get Coasters listed as endangered or threatened and that that attempt was unsuccessful due to coasters being considered just a lifestyle variant and not a separate species from brook trout, which are not endangered or threatened. Seems like Skamania or any other strain of steelhead would likewise be considered as a smaller subset of Rainbow Trout, which are also not threatened or endangered on the level of species and therefor also wouldn't qualify for such listing. Just seems like a lack of consistency or a double standard of some sort in the manner in which the tag on applied.


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

DReihl9896 said:


> This doesn't make sense to me. I know one tact used to try to stop the mine project in the UP was to get Coasters listed as endangered or threatened and that that attempt was unsuccessful due to coasters being considered just a lifestyle variant and not a separate species from brook trout, which are not endangered or threatened. Seems like Skamania or any other strain of steelhead would likewise be considered as a smaller subset of Rainbow Trout, which are also not threatened or endangered on the level of species and therefor also wouldn't qualify for such listing. Just seems like a lack of consistency or a double standard of some sort in the manner in which the tag on applied.


I dont know enough about coasters. But are they not a sub species of Brook trout, if so they in all rights should be protected and the situation should have been fought with scientific data to prove that they are indeed a sub species and not just the same thing as a normal brook trout.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Fishndude said:


> Skamanias got their name from the Skamania Hatchery, on the Washougal River, in Washington State. The State of WA decided to raise summer-running Steelhead in the hatchery, to support more year-round fisheries in rivers that didn't feature naturally summer-running strains of Steelhead. The strain was a cross between two different strains of summer-running Steelhead which were native to two different rivers. The Skamania strain is essentially a man-made strain of fish, which are best maintained through hatchery production. Some surely do spawn, but not a lot of them. If they did, the Little Man and PM would be full of them every year, as they are with Manistee strain Steelhead, during their spawning time.


 
Multi has said he read that too!. Read the link I posted and it says nothing of the like. So it is a difficult topic on which to establish fact. I know Buzz Ramsey and I will ask him what he knows.... I'd never read that or heard that unil Multi..then read it, and as in the above link I posted it does not mention a hybridization, perhaps it was done later to possibly improve the Genes, though the whole reason the the Washugal strain was used was it's propensity to be large, so what would the gains be in Hybridizing the two? Also I believe those two rivers are within the same system, so the cross would occur naturally also. Yes most of us know how they derived their name!


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## Roger That (Nov 18, 2010)

No Tooler, It's empty, flappy, saggy belly was also an indication.... Sometimes I really wish you would run your face into a wall.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Roger That said:


> No Tooler, It's empty, flappy, saggy belly was also an indication.... Sometimes I really wish you would run your face into a wall.


 
Now Now Boys!.... I also have seen one set of Fall spawners, on the Au back around 1997 or so, I know they do exist, however it's not what you could call a run. I would think that over the Eons a Fall spawning strain would of evolved if there was an ample amount of fish spawning at the time, perhaps it is now!


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## Roger That (Nov 18, 2010)

oops


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## wilsonm (Dec 28, 2010)

SALMOTRUTTA said:


> http://poseidonflies.wordpress.com/2010/03/19/steelhead-101/
> this is a little informative peice on all the different strains of steelhead stocked into lake michigan. it might be a little dated but still interesting none the less.


This link shouldn't be used for any info on the subject. It is outdated, incomplete and full of misinformation. 
Identifying steelhead strains by the way they look is just speculation. There are generalities like skamania being long and slender, but they are still generalities that don't always hold true. CWT''s or fin clips and known ages by dorsal rays or scales are the only way to really know. The one thing we do know is that there is a lot of variability out there. There can be cohos in a given river from Sept to Feb. and occasional spring run chinooks. There are adult steelhead in some river in Michigan all 12 months out of the year. From, CWT's, there is definitely straying that does take place to some extent. I think that there probably has been a fair amount of strains interbreeding over the years in a lot of our rivers. One thing is true, all of the various strains used over the years spawn sometime from mid/late winter through late spring no matter when they entered the river. There is spawning time variability even within strains. As far as I know, a steelhead doesn't ask another steelhead what strain he or she is before spawning with them. Only a hatchery can keep a viable, pure skamania strain going because they are in control of the breeding.


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## steely74 (Feb 9, 2010)

We have this same conversation once a year and it always the same participants. This is why I didn't add my 2 cents, 1/2 of this thread came from the 2 threads below. Oh well its a good way to pass time :lol:


http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=434412&highlight=washougal&page=3

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=435262&highlight=washougal

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=434412&highlight=washougal&page=3


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

steely74 said:


> We have this same conversation once a year and it always the same participants. This is why I didn't add my 2 cents, 1/2 of this thread came from the 2 threads below. Oh well its a good way to pass time :lol:
> 
> 
> http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=434412&highlight=washougal&page=3
> ...


"we''... thanks for Info. !


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Oooops 4got....


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## HURONFLY (Aug 12, 2007)

Founding broodstock of Skamania steelhead were taken from summer runs in the Washougal and Klickitat rivers. Most of what you read about Skamania that comes from sources in the great lakes region tend to just mention the Washougal river. Most of what i have read coming out of the pacific northwest tend to list both rivers.


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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

I've caught steelhead during the summer months that have had different body shapes, clipped/non clipped fins, nubbed dorsals, all their fins etc.

These are steelhead from August, September and March of this past season. Two have clips that indicate skamania(RV) and one has every fin, with none worn down. Maybe a wild spawned skam? The trib these were taken from has cool enough water and tons of gravel and wood. 

*August*








*September*








*March*


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

Roger That said:


> No Tooler, It's empty, flappy, saggy belly was also an indication.... Sometimes I really wish you would run your face into a wall.


Again I dont see how that is a viable reason to make that assumption. Perhaps it had been in the river since June, and had used up all of its fat reserves? perhaps it has not eaten in several months due to being on the spawning run. To many what ifs. So just because you squeezed it a few times and because the way its belly looked it is not a positive indication that it was a fall spawning fish. The fins should support some wear on the edges from working the redd if you wanted to get more technical with appearance of the fish, that would be a more logical reason to support a fall spawning fish other then belly appearance and a squeeze test.


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## Roger That (Nov 18, 2010)

I fingered it bro.. Then cut it open to peak and threw it back....

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

This article may or may not apply to this area, but it might add to the discussion.
http://www.nativefishsociety.org/co...y_on_salmon_hatcheries/fitness/Kostow2002.pdf 

Also, keep in mind that not all seams are clipped. The amount clipped is variable from year to year. Wisconsin, which used to clip Root/kewaunee River skams only (not all their skams) has not stocked them for a bit.


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