# Atlantics



## milanmark (Apr 10, 2012)

I know they stocked the Ausable with Atlantics in 2013, 2014 and 2015. Anyone know how long before they come back to spawn? I don't remember hearing of any last year other than a random fish. I'd really like to catch one and tried the St Mary's rapids a couple years ago when the water is down, can't imagine fishing it right now with 5 gates open! Just wondering what might happen, any ideas? Thanks!


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## milanmark (Apr 10, 2012)

So any thoughts on if/when might see returning Atlantics in the Ausable?


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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

milanmark said:


> So any thoughts on if/when might see returning Atlantics in the Ausable?


I feel 2017-2018 will be the first decent returns. Better plant-size, river conditions and water temps this spring. The first two were a wash from what the biologists believe.

However, there should be a few this fall. I doubt every one perished from the 13-14 plants. The 2013 fish will be 5-7lbs this year.


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## milanmark (Apr 10, 2012)

I hope you are right! That would be nice!


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## MichiganStreamside (Jan 19, 2014)

ausable_steelhead said:


> I feel 2017-2018 will be the first decent returns. Better plant-size, river conditions and water temps this spring. The first two were a wash from what the biologists believe.
> 
> However, there should be a few this fall. I doubt every one perished from the 13-14 plants. The 2013 fish will be 5-7lbs this year.


Sad to say but I think your right.


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## herb09 (Jan 11, 2009)

Agree couldn't get myself to say it.


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## SJC (Sep 3, 2002)

I don't think this plant will ever do well. I hope I am wrong. They need to start putting some of these fish farther up in some real trout streams where they can learn how to survive. Right now, they are being dumped into a hostile environment with little food, cold water, and lots of predators.

When they planted the first ones in an unmentionable, the fish were so dumb. They could be seen hanging around in big slugs right on the surface. I did not think many would make it, after all it was just a small plant of LSU culls. The ones that left the river right away probably did not. In a few days the others began to disperse and could be seen well into summer sipping flies off the top. I believe they trickled out of the river when they were ready. By doing this, they did not ring the dinner bell for large groups of predators to show up. Anyway, just like clockwork, a fair # of these fish returned to spawn and some were caught by boats, shore anglers and river fishermen. I landed over twenty of these awesome fish myself. 

I am afraid that the DNR is going to botch our chance at what could/should be the premier game fish in the state. If it aint working, you need to change it, especially when you have empirical data that points to another option. For the record I am not just one of these a-holes that is critical of everything the DNR does. I want this to work and I think it could work.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Steelhead are just a better fish for planting. They can be targeted in the lakes, and they can spawn more than once, although most don't. They can provide a real year-round river fishery, by planting Skamanias, and Manistee strains. 

I caught a few small Atlantics a few years ago @ the Ausable. None in the last couple years, though. I would be glad for more migratory fish to fish for in that river. But if I had to choose, I would choose to increase the Steelhead plants vs planting Atlantics. Just my opinion.


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## MichiganStreamside (Jan 19, 2014)

Fishndude said:


> Steelhead are just a better fish for planting. They can be targeted in the lakes, and they can spawn more than once, although most don't. They can provide a real year-round river fishery, by planting Skamanias, and Manistee strains.
> 
> I caught a few small Atlantics a few years ago @ the Ausable. None in the last couple years, though. I would be glad for more migratory fish to fish for in that river. But if I had to choose, I would choose to increase the Steelhead plants vs planting Atlantics. Just my opinion.


If you can get the quality of Atlantics that Northern Lake Huron and the St. Marys gets i would completely disagree! The finest fish I have caught in the Great Lakes has been an Atlantic Salmon - most aggressive, better fighting fish than a steelhead and they can return to spawn many times. They can even rise to a fly.


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## milanmark (Apr 10, 2012)

One day I hope to catch one and find out how good of fighters they are!


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## SJC (Sep 3, 2002)

I agree with Kelly. Steelhead are one of my favorite fish, but we already have tons of great steelhead opportunities in the state. People pay tens of thousands of dollars for a chance to hook an Atlantic salmon. They are an awesome game fish that could provide something for boat and shore anglers if we could just figure them out. Atlantics already make a great contribution to the Huron fishery and quite a few are caught every year. It's just that most are LSU or wild fish. I think it's time for the DNR to try something different before they have to pull the plug. Maybe they could try some fingerlings in some upstream spots. They may imprint and survive better, plus more could be planted for the same $. As far as steelhead imprinting better, I'm not so sure about that as the steelhead returns in these same places they plant Atlantics are not a helluva lot better.


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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

I don't think the DNR will scrap this too soon. I believe they wanted to give it a 5 year stretch with plantings. I do feel atlantics are more sensitive when planted than steelhead, and need fair river conditions. 

The first 2 Au Sable plants were 3-4" fish, put in a river at 3000-5000cfs and in the mid-30's. I believe this spring they were 5-6", and the river was around 2000cfs and in the 40's; MUCH better conditions for them. I do think they should be dumped at Rea rd though. Not sure why they've chosen a mid-river spot in the Whirlpool. I think they can take hold in the AS, though they won't run the river during summer. September through March is when they'll be there.

A few of the small tribs would suit them well. That unmentionable should be right up there on the list, as there was a very good return for a half-ass dumping of a small plant. The first run was quite a lot of fish. While there were a few less the next couple years after, the fish got bigger. Made perfect sense.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

The problem with the Atlantic Salmon that they are stocking is that they are a landlocked salmon. These fish are content to live, spawn, and die in the lakes and never in their life enter a river. Don't get your hopes up there too high about ever catching one in a river. I have and do catch a few in the UP rivers but they have been planting them in the UP since I believe 1984 so there is an established population of them up here. If the people doing the planting introduce them to a river by planting them 20 miles upstream of the mouth then you will probably have some great returns. This was actually done in one of the EUP rivers in the 1990's and the fishing for Atlantics in the river was excellent in June, July and August.For whatever reason they quit doing this and the salmon were happy staying out in the lake. I am under the impression that the people driving the hatchery trucks associate salmon with lakes and are on auto pilot. Do something different plant them way up in the rivers so that they will return to the rivers. For whatever reason there is a river in the NE LP that gets a decent return every year and they have never been planted there. It not the AuSable.


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## Raylaser (Jan 29, 2015)

Seems like the braintrust on this blog have some great ideas. RH, I know you have some connections in the DNR, what (if anything) are you hearing as to why they aren't considering some of these seemingly good alternatives to the planting technique for Atlantics? I would love to see some type of reestablished salmon fishery that has the chance to replicate itself year after year throughout the state's typical salmon fishing lakes and rivers. If the DNR can work out the bugs, there would be a huge economic impact with the improved fishery. Not to mention the great fishing we could all enjoy!


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## MichiganStreamside (Jan 19, 2014)

SJC said:


> I agree with Kelly. Steelhead are one of my favorite fish, but we already have tons of great steelhead opportunities in the state. People pay tens of thousands of dollars for a chance to hook an Atlantic salmon. They are an awesome game fish that could provide something for boat and shore anglers if we could just figure them out. Atlantics already make a great contribution to the Huron fishery and quite a few are caught every year. It's just that most are LSU or wild fish. I think it's time for the DNR to try something different before they have to pull the plug. Maybe they could try some fingerlings in some upstream spots. They may imprint and survive better, plus more could be planted for the same $. As far as steelhead imprinting better, I'm not so sure about that as the steelhead returns in these same places they plant Atlantics are not a helluva lot better.


The info that I saw at the beginning said they were committed till 2018 and then evaluate program. At least they have made some changes and trying to improve. I do not see it as an imprinting issue right now. The state has stocked their raised fish at the St. Marys, Thunder Bay River, Au Sable and southern Lake Huron and all have adipose clip and many wire tag. Almost none have been found but LSSU fish are found everywhere and numbers in Lake Huron are increase. They stock there at 8" plus in June and state did 4" long in early April for first two year. I'm not biologist but seems like there is your problem. At least this past year they were 6" and stocked in May - Maybe that will help!


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## Raylaser (Jan 29, 2015)

Seems like strain, size and water temp at release are key issues in addition to where they should be released for best survival habitat. Would hope that the DNR has taken as good notes as some of you on this thread have. If so, I would believe they could answer most of the initial survival rate and return rate questions. Let's keep our fingers crossed and the discussions fresh in the mind of the DNR for the best possible results. I would really like to see this type of salmon make long-standing fishery here!


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## Fantastic0 (Aug 20, 2015)

I've seen them in Tawas before.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

MichiganStreamside said:


> If you can get the quality of Atlantics that Northern Lake Huron and the St. Marys gets i would completely disagree! The finest fish I have caught in the Great Lakes has been an Atlantic Salmon - most aggressive, better fighting fish than a steelhead and they can return to spawn many times. They can even rise to a fly.


 
I trust you to be a good judge of a sporting fish to fight. LOL. Hopefully we get some returns with some size, so I can give that a try myself. I've often thought about hitting the Rapids, but just never made the summer trip.


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## GuppyII (Sep 14, 2008)

Robert Holmes said:


> The problem with the Atlantic Salmon that they are stocking is that they are a landlocked salmon. These fish are content to live, spawn, and die in the lakes and never in their life enter a river. Don't get your hopes up there too high about ever catching one in a river. I have and do catch a few in the UP rivers but they have been planting them in the UP since I believe 1984 so there is an established population of them up here. If the people doing the planting introduce them to a river by planting them 20 miles upstream of the mouth then you will probably have some great returns. This was actually done in one of the EUP rivers in the 1990's and the fishing for Atlantics in the river was excellent in June, July and August.For whatever reason they quit doing this and the salmon were happy staying out in the lake. I am under the impression that the people driving the hatchery trucks associate salmon with lakes and are on auto pilot. Do something different plant them way up in the rivers so that they will return to the rivers. For whatever reason there is a river in the NE LP that gets a decent return every year and they have never been planted there. It not the AuSable.


Landlocked fish do not spawn in the lake, they still run the rivers to spawn. They took the strains out of the finger lakes I believe, they have several rivers with good runs of Atlantics. All of the salmon and trout in the great Lakes are basically landlocked..
http://www.maine.gov/ifw/fishing/species/identification/landlockedsalmon.htm


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

I fish several streams and rivers in the EUP that should hold thousands of Atlantic Salmon returning to spawn. Where are they if they are not spawning in the lake? I catch kings,coho,and pinks but few if any Atlantic Salmon. I am fishing the streams hard from August 15 to November 15. I actually catch more atlantic salmon in the spring while steelhead fishing than I ever do in the fall.


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## Sean065 (Dec 8, 2014)

Robert Holmes said:


> I fish several streams and rivers in the EUP that should hold thousands of Atlantic Salmon returning to spawn. Where are they if they are not spawning in the lake? I catch kings,coho,and pinks but few if any Atlantic Salmon. I am fishing the streams hard from August 15 to November 15. I actually catch more atlantic salmon in the spring while steelhead fishing than I ever do in the fall.


They have only stocked atlantics in one eup river and that was in the 90's. And the majority of them were the strain that didnt do well


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## GuppyII (Sep 14, 2008)

Sean065 said:


> They have only stocked atlantics in one eup river and that was in the 90's. And the majority of them were the strain that didnt do well


Can't argue with the plant report!


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

That strain in that river kept me eating atlantic salmon for the better part of 5 summers. I got to be pretty good at catching one or two every time that my line hit the water. They need to repeat that plant a few times over. Problem is when something works they quit doing it. Those salmon would be thick in that river in June, July, and August. I don't see where there was a failure at all. Most of the fish that I caught were 8 to 14 pounds and they packed a punch on 6 lb test line.


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## Raylaser (Jan 29, 2015)

Robert Holmes said:


> That strain in that river kept me eating atlantic salmon for the better part of 5 summers. I got to be pretty good at catching one or two every time that my line hit the water. They need to repeat that plant a few times over. Problem is when something works they quit doing it. Those salmon would be thick in that river in June, July, and August. I don't see where there was a failure at all. Most of the fish that I caught were 8 to 14 pounds and they packed a punch on 6 lb test line.


Robert: How recently have you caught Atlantics in this EUP river? You said 5 years of good catches and it seems the other comments here said the plantings occurred in the 90's (they didn't specify early or late 90's) so just curious when was the last time you experienced a "good" return to the river. Just curious. This is all very interesting to me because I've never targeted nor caught any Atlantics but they sound like a blast!


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

The good runs died about 2000. Since then they have been few and far between them I think that the Guppy needs to be on the rivers 4 or 5 days a week like I am so that he can catch the Atlantics that are not there. When they had the good runs I would have 20 or so fish chase the lure and have about 5 hook ups every trip. If they are stacked like they are in the Sault then why don't the strays show up elsewhere? It is because they are happy to stay in the lakes where they are planted. Until they are planted in a river and get a taste for the river they will not return to a river. The river in the NELP that gets a decent run it is a spring run. The same with most of the Atlantics that I catch are in the spring.


Raylaser said:


> Robert: How recently have you caught Atlantics in this EUP river? You said 5 years of good catches and it seems the other comments here said the plantings occurred in the 90's (they didn't specify early or late 90's) so just curious when was the last time you experienced a "good" return to the river. Just curious. This is all very interesting to me because I've never targeted nor caught any Atlantics but they sound like a blast!


What ever they did in the 1990's it provided very good salmon fishing for Atlantics and they need to repeat it. Now only a very few people knew that it even existed. I will verify the returns to anyone from the DNR that wants to know about it. Those salmon were planted in the river and they returned to the river. If you are casting and get 20 chases in a couple of hours of fishing that is very good. I would like to have days like that again. They are fighters they have peeled 100 yards of 6 lb test from my reels in about 10 seconds airborn most of the way. In the lake you have the whole lake to battle them, in rivers you have to chase them and avoid obstacles. To have a good overall fishery the salmon need to be river planted.


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## Raylaser (Jan 29, 2015)

I'm not trying to blame the DNR but why is that a seasoned fisherman who spends time on the water can know these things and formulate a plan, but it seems the DNR is oblivious. They may not be oblivious but their lack of action makes it seem that way. It would appear that there are many alternatives to our Chinook/Coho decline that would create at great/sustainable salmon and trout fishery throughout the state and it seems the DNR is dragging its feet or not moving at all on getting something done.


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