# Can you start a farm these day's?



## DEERSLAYER (Mar 29, 2000)

I am getting desperate for a nice chunk of hunting land I can own/manage. I am curious if anybody out there (Ed?) knows if it is practical to buy a peice of land (about 160-200 acres) for a "hobbie" farm and have it pay for the operateing expences (payments)? This is something I would do "on the side".


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## wecker20 (Mar 10, 2004)

I would have to say no unless the soil is perfect. But you got to figure in the equipment and on and on.... My dad and I(or I should say my dad) own 280 acres but it's paid for(original paperwork back in 1885 family paid $5/acre). I have always wanted to come up w/ a cash crop but w/ soil conditions, machine prices, and time I can't see doing it. We do let a guy do the hay from it but I'm sure that's not even close to paying the payments nowdays...taxes too.


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## sagittarius (Jun 2, 2004)

It can be done, many guys are doing it, but you would be lucky to break even, suplimented payments is more realistic. 

If you buy a old farm property with a farm house, you can rent out the farm house, and rent out the tilable land to a neighboring farmer, Barn space for storage. Set the property up as a business. Do a timber cutting an get some income from that too. If you cash farmed the land yourself you could write off/depreciate all your foodplot equiptment. Then write off your hunting trip travel expenses (gas, food, lodging) to the property as management expenses.


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

DEERSLAYER said:


> I am getting desperate for a nice chunk of hunting land I can own/manage. I am curious if anybody out there (Ed?) knows if it is practical to buy a peice of land (about 160-200 acres) for a "hobbie" farm and have it pay for the operateing expences (payments)? This is something I would do "on the side".


I'd PM EdSpin (he's a real farmer) but from what I know its tough enough nowadays if you already own the land! We all know what land prices have done the past few years, but hereabouts good hunting land goes for more per acre than good tillable land! Go figure on that one.

Many of the farms that seem to be doing well up here are into specialty crops- grapes, farmers markets, roadside stands, herbs, flowers, etc. ie. value added stuff, not just cash crops. A cool idea if the numbers can be made to work.

Natty B.


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## ThumbBum (Oct 13, 2003)

I know some guys up in Kalkaska who run a chrismas tree operation to cover the costs of their hunting property. Granted they bought the land back in the mid sixties. If I remember correctly, they bought the property then had about half of it clearcut to make room for the trees. The money the got for the timber covered the equipment costs, mortgage payments, and taxes while they were waiting for their first crop to come in. After a while they actually started leasing propery from their neighbors to grow thier trees on while they re-planted thier field in hardwoods. Equipment wise they had a 120HP ford tractor, a trasport disc, and a large sprayer. Most of the heavy manual work was hired out to migrant labor. 

The big downside was that a lot of the work they needed to do was during hunting season. 

If I were in your position I might look around for a small tree-farming operation that was for sale on a land contract type basis. Just a thought.


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## brokenarrow (Oct 6, 2003)

Anouther option is to get 3 buddies and go in on land together. Get a lawyer and do it as "tenants in common" If anyone ever wants out they have to sell it to the other tenants for what you bought it for, (good way to keep it affordable and keep your partners) Also write up an agreement on WHO can actually hunt it! IOf you get the right partners, it works! If not, its a pain!
Good luck


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## trout (Jan 17, 2000)

If you are creative you can make money.
Berries and a pumpkin patch catering to the public, ETC.
Lots of work and it would be full time plus.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

without looking into it thoroughly first. Christmas tree farming doesn't have the profit margin anymore that it used to have-more and more people buying long term plastic, and a wide variety of insect infestations are making it absolutely necessary to spend almost as much as you would ever make on a year's harvest spraying your trees with insecticides. One of the reasons many farmers are now raising fir trees and spruces-which take a lot longer to grow to Christmas tree size. Most Christmas tree farmers I know are slowly bailing. 

Niche markets, of any kind, are very risky. And you never know what the weather is going to do to you from one year to the next. 

I would, if I could, try to find a nice piece of hardwoods-at close to good timber size. Probably pricey, but that depends on where you buy. Timber off the land in a selective cut every few years, which will stagger your harvest and allow you a continuous income of some kind. Invest the money you make in more real estate in other hardwoods. 

The only farming market I'm aware of these days, especially in northern Michigan, that's fairly steady or even rising in value, is hay. Put a good field into hay, which doesn't take a lot of effort, and you should realize a decent harvest twice a year-if it doesn't rain before you get it baled and into the barn. 

I don't know many people who are depending upon the land anymore to make a living-even the full time farmers put at least one member of their household out into the job market-usually their wives. 

Good luck.


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## brokenarrow (Oct 6, 2003)

I have heard the same thing. A guy up the roas from me stopped taking care of his place 3 years ago. Said if ya want a tree come take it and make me a small donation (anything!)


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## fairfax1 (Jun 12, 2003)

Sag has the formula. That's the way I see it being done all the time. 

Makin' a living off of 120 acres or 160 acres or 200 acres would be tough, real tough. Perhaps, if it was close to Detroit and you could 'niche' farm it ...maybe. 

But doing it with some of Sag's tactics is the way most fellas who have other jobs but want to own 'farm' land -----and/or want to have an assured place to hunt. They do it that way: Lease out the tillable, sell the market timber, rent any buildings, and diligently seek out tax advantages or sheltering. 

I know a dedicated bowhunter who hunts hard and long on his own land during October through November 12th....then leases out (for a darn good dollar) the shotgun deer rights starting November 15th thru November 30th.....then leases out again to another group, the muzzleloader rights. The muzzleloader guys kill the most deer on this property with their private land antlerless permits.


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## bishs (Aug 30, 2000)

If I was looking for more land, I would look for primarily farmland, with some fencerows, tree lines ect. Then I would apply for WRP, Wetland Reserve Program. Then I would put the land in permanent easement. 

The WRP program, would help create wetlands with surounding prairie grasses, wetland shrubs ect. Only a portion has to be water. The land can also have some woods. Lots of paperwpork, probably a year or two to see it through, but worth the effort. The farm 3 miles from me is in permanent easement. You could enroll all the property except the road frontage, and a few acres for foodplots.

In a nutshell, if you qualify. 100% of the cost to establish the project is funded. Then they give you a one time payment. The payment is based on current land value. I was told last week, they give 2,500 an acre in my area. That is what land is going for in my area. They would basically cover the cost of the land. Once in the program, you can never build, change ect. The wetland must exist forever. You control the land, keep out trespassers hunt and fish ect. How can you go wrong? 

Land is going for $100,000 for 40 acres in my area. This $2,500 would cover that cost. 

They also have 30 year easements. They pay 75% of the cost to establish, then 75% of the land value. Plan lasts 30 years.
Go to WRP website and make some phone calls.


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## DEERSLAYER (Mar 29, 2000)

I thought about that WRP, but the way I understood it was that they would require me to flood the land. I'm confused?  Maybe I should talk to someone about these possibilities.


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## bishs (Aug 30, 2000)

The surrounding land is as important as the wetland itself. For example my CREP wetland program has 3 ponds about 1 1/2 acres total, and 5 acres of prairie grasses. Most of these projects have as much or more actual dry land enrolled. The land surounding is important to filter water, and for nesting wildlife.

Check it out


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## drwink (Oct 15, 2003)

To bad you can't grow hemp :lol:


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2004)

Can you start a farm?

There are now in Michigan more farms than five years ago, with the acreage average decreasing not increasing.

It seems the new venturous farmers can succed but need to fill a new niche. The old proven standbys of raiseing standard livestock and cash crops of corn, soys and wheat are iffy at best. 

Deer slayer it will not be easy. I suggest you put a lot of thought into this. Pick a path that is not trodden with zillions of footprints. Create your own market, which may mean you may need to locate close to traffic if you will deal with the public. Find something that excites you and your spouse if you have one. Learn the selected field well (very well) before you lay one dollar down in a location purchase. Start slow, Do your research. You will make many mistakes and cannot afford big expensive ones. Try to fill a unique need or be the best in the county in what you produce. Someone mentioned to choose the right conditions for what you will produce and this may mean soil type, price, temporary shortfall of income etc.

It appears Deerslayer that you would like your home and field of dreams of wild animals to pay for it self. This is not easy but why not!

Keep the fun in hunting and good luck Deerslayer!


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

When I used to hunt the Iron River area I ran into a couple of brothers from Wisconsin who were ginsing farmers. Start up costs were high but it helped them with the cost of their land and allowed them out of state hunts every year. 

I had a passing thought about it but never followed through with much research. There is lots of info out there on the subject and growing demand for it in the far east.


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## DEERSLAYER (Mar 29, 2000)

I thought about a lot of thing's, Raising crops for hard to find seed, herbs, etc. but I'm just not sure. I don't know squat about the farming industry.  Sure would like to sit down and pick your brain one of these day's Ed.  Although, I don't know how that could happen. Your alway's surrounded when I see you.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

like ginseng are good to consider, they are additional options hardwoods owners can consider, along with things like maple syrup. But getting a ginseng crop takes a minimum of 10 years before your first plants are mature enough to harvest, and before your first harvest your start up costs will be high, as ginseng needs not only forest canopy cover, but fertilizier, watering when it's dry, and protection from wild animals who enjoy browsing on it. Lately, in the last two decades, ginseng farmers have suffered from a variety of diseases making investment in insecticides necessary as well...look into this one closely before you leap. Contact the USDA, they have a great deal of information on ginseng farming.

Ed-where did you see that information that there are MORE farms now? Perhaps more small farms, but overall, I would think there are fewer farms. There sure are in most of the areas of the country I'm familiar with. The best crop most farms seem to be growing these days is subdivisions and little white balls, along with occasional crops of asphalt and retail shops.


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

hey linda - how are things looking out there? seeing any big bucks for the fall? ;-)


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## drwink (Oct 15, 2003)

Linda Ed's right about more farms.
There was just an article in the Detroit News within the last month about this.
Most are hobby farms, niche farms & farmers market type farms. Seems like these farmers markets have sprouted up everywhere over the last few years.
Organic farmers and such, alot set up there own roadside stands too.
They raise other things also like pumpkins, Indian corn, Herbs and stuff.
I think a lot has to do with unreported cash but I could be wrong.
Back in 1990 when I bought my place in Livingston county, I got more for the money going 10 miles farther west than I was looking. I chose Iosco township partly because they had the most registered farms. At the time I didn't realize that with the economy improving, land prices rising that so many would start selling out and growing homes instead of crops.
As of a year or so ago, our township only had ONE registered dairy farm left.


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