# sandy soil



## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

One thing that I did not mention is that you should contact your conservation district and get a free soils map plus the index that goes with it. The map shows the types of soils you have which can then be cross referenced with the index to find out what your potenial habitat elements your property favors. The matrix for my soils includes columns for grains/seed crops, grasses/legumes, wild herbaceous plants, hardwood trees, coniferous trees, wetland plants, shallow water areas, openland wildelife, woodland wildlife and wetland wildlife. These columns are then rated somewhere between poor and excellent for each soil type.


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## davidshane (Feb 29, 2004)

NJ,

Like what your talking about, my soil is mostly all sand. I plan to do a lite disk after all the trees and stumps are cleared. This is to be done to accomplish some leveling and to put down some of the roots left behind. I plan on a 4-5 inch cut with a ATV disk. I figure I could even go deeper since the dozer has already turned over so much sand, covering up the small amount of topsoil. 

After the first planting (hopefully rye this fall), I would plan to only do shallow cuts (2 inches) each year to work in the buckwheat or other plants. 

If I'm only taking shallow passes, will this be a bad thing or will it be ok?

I thought that once a year shallow passes would be good to help keep mixing the top soil and for making a better bed for the seeds. Is this thinking wrong?

Dave


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

I think that sounds good Dave. That's basically what I do, but I have my tiller set at 4". So, on all my plots I've never gone below that 4" line. I control a lot of the growth...weed or not, with herbecide. It may sound like I use a lot of chemicals, but even while managing 8 acres of plots I do not use more than a $100 a year-expensive, but fairly managable. Your soil will improve fairly quickly with frequent crop rotations.

Simon,

Those pictures look exactly like my plots when they start out, and your sand looks like a "sandy loam", which is better than the type of sand Ogre is talking about. I have some fields in the type of sand Ogre is talking about and it does take longer to develop a good crop...but it can be done with the right ph, buckwheat, then a fall plantings of rye, followed by another buckwheat crop..and then plant a decent fall combo with a fall attractant/perennial mix. Might take an extra year of rotations, but only in the worst cases and you still have the buckwheat in the summer, and the rye in the fall. My Memorial weekend buckwheat is already being foraged by deer and growing rapidly so it doesn't take long for the deer to start using if you get some timely rains. If you see immediate rain when you are at the property for the 7/4 weekend the buckwheat should do well. 

Again though...those plots look the same as mine, in fact David's are pretty close as well, and it's good you were able to leave a little top soil.....I think you will end up being real happy with the results. Is your ph O.K.? that's real important if you haven't addressed it yet.

Looking forward to hearing how you do.


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## stick bow (Jan 3, 2004)

Simon,

The BFO (Buck Forage Oats) do very well in our area in the fall. I have not had a chance to even lime yet, just some fertilizer (19-19-19) and seed. Though I have a disk now and can cover this years fall plantings, I did not even cover the BFO seeds in the past and they grow like crazy. I seeded very heavily with good success. If it works down the block, it will work at your place.

Steve.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

simondet1 said:


> I was thinking that I could plant some buck wheat and then just till it in the ground and do that for a few years. How long would it take to build up the soil?
> Simon


We started planting buckwheat on marginal farm land 40 yrs. ago for the wildlife. It's still marginal farmland. I believe that Mother Nature builds soil at the rate of about 1 inch per thousand years under normal conditions. So you can do the math to find out how much top soil you'll be making in your lifetime.
As everyone one has said, buckwheat & rye are pretty much idiot(farming wise) proof. However, not much grows well in sand. It's pretty hard to beat the buckwheat/rye combo when it comes to attracting deer.
As far as planting time, the old saying is..."Wet or dry, plant your buckwheat by the 4th of July."

L & O


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

"As everyone one has said, buckwheat & rye are pretty much idiot(farming wise) proof." 

No wonder I like it so much!...yes, I admit, I am an idiot 

I can't say I've ever watched a deer eat buckwheat, but by the looks of it they just eat the entire head of the leaves and top of the plant right off. I only have a few years experience with it, but when I first started planting it I did not realize how much deer, and even the rabbits, like it. Buckwheat was always sold to me as a great "soil builder", but I have always appreciated the fact that the deer and rabbits like it so much.


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## Swamper (Apr 12, 2004)

It is very difficult to build up soil if deer and other animals are eating it to the base...in the end, a net drain/loss from the soil. Part of the benefit of growing a cover crop is the material you are putting back into when you disk or plow it under. Perhaps Ed Spin has some ideas for you on what to grow that will help build up the soil without the animals mowing it down.

Swamper


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

NJ,
Did you have any background in farming before you started working on food plots ? I would say that many of the guys that are big into food plots today were raising patio tomatoes & roses 10 yrs. ago.
Our deer are eating the heads(blossoms & top leaves) now. They will eat the seeds later. They are also eating the corn & sunflowers. As usual, alfalfa is the number # 1 hot spot. Moderate action in the clover plots.

L & O


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## GrouseBuster (Apr 18, 2004)

Steve I have better luck with triple 12 or 13 than 19 especially if the PH is not corrected yet, unless triple 19 is on sale.:lol: Dont forget to add Urea (46-0-0) in the fall. Simon the biggest improvement I made on my lots with the same soil as yours was dragging the chain harrow over and over again to get all of the sticks out. If you or Steve ever need to borrow it just let me know. It makes a big difference for seed contact. I just planted Rye a few times a year and turned it back under it was so inexpensive. I want to mix it with some winter wheat this fall and right now I have sunflower and rye mix. Another one of our neighbors at the front used Buckwheat last summer on the same soil as ours and it grew very well. The three of us need to get together for a tractor jamboree.


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## stick bow (Jan 3, 2004)

Pour me a tall diesel and call me Zeb.


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## GrouseBuster (Apr 18, 2004)

LOL, pretty soon everyone in our neighborhood will be wearing bib overalls and straw hats. YEEE HAAAW ! :lol:


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## Nimrod1 (Apr 26, 2004)

GrouseBuster said:


> LOL, pretty soon everyone in our neighborhood will be wearing bib overalls and straw hats. YEEE HAAAW ! :lol:


That's a visual that I didn't need!!:yikes:


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## simondet1 (May 14, 2002)

Thanks guy's this is all great info.

Steve, Ed and Dave, will you be up the week of the fourth. We'll be up late saturday for the whole week.

Hopefully we'll see you


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

L&O,

I had no background on farming. What was interesting is that when I started with foodplots back in 96 I relied heavily on the advice from the local farmers, but had little success. Nothing against those farmers, but what I was trying to do is grow crops for deer on poor soil with light equipment, and they were growing cash crops on good soil with large equipment and the same tactics didn't necessarily apply. That was when I started talking to Ed Spin and with his help and the help of my local ag extension agent I was able to form a base for my "farming" practices. The importance of good ph, lime, fertalizer, rotating crops and experimentation with various seed varieties I learned from Ed, and many tips relative to my specific soil I learned from the local ag extension agent.

Anyways, it is certainly a constant "practice"...but it's lots of fun learning.


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