# Grouse Numbers



## wirehair (Oct 16, 2007)

Early Season Grouse Numbers poll.


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## BillBuster (Apr 25, 2005)

Way up in NElP!!


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

way up NWLP

even tho some doomsdayers on this site were saying we should shorten the season due to west nile virus


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

Up for my areas.


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

Way up


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## Sturty7 (Aug 25, 2016)

Up for me...could just be a little more knowledge than last year though.


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## Tomfive5 (Dec 15, 2015)

Up.


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## Mark4486 (Oct 14, 2015)

Down in my area according to the last couple years.


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## woodwise (Sep 14, 2009)

TheHighLIfe said:


> way up NWLP
> 
> even tho some doomsdayers on this site were saying we should shorten the season due to west nile virus


 Grouse down in the lower near Houghton Lake, Roscommon , lake city area, I’m finding pocket of birds in some areas. Averaging 1.5 grouse per hr. Overall. The pro trainers tell me that’s about their average too. Perhaps you should hunt 20 different spots then report your averages instead of going to your best 4 covers every other day and then tell everyone how great it is.


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## Mark4486 (Oct 14, 2015)

woodwise said:


> Grouse down in the lower near Houghton Lake, Roscommon , lake city area, I’m finding pocket of birds in some areas. Averaging 1.5 grouse per hr. Overall. The pro trainers tell me that’s about their average too. Perhaps you should hunt 20 different spots then report your averages instead of going to your best 4 covers every other day and then tell everyone how great it is.


as far as grouse go I haven’t seen many and the ones I have flush way to far away. This is just where I’m at. Woodcock is a different story. In an entire day I only flush one or two. Last year in the same spots they everywhere. So I’m not sure what’s going on. I know where the habitat and food is just can’t find the birds.


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

woodwise said:


> Grouse down in the lower near Houghton Lake, Roscommon , lake city area, I’m finding pocket of birds in some areas. Averaging 1.5 grouse per hr. Overall. The pro trainers tell me that’s about their average too. Perhaps you should hunt 20 different spots then report your averages instead of going to your best 4 covers every other day and then tell everyone how great it is.



woodwise (wise? really?)

averaging over 5 grouse flushes/hour. even when hunting alone
have not hunted any spot twice (twice at a woodcock only spot).
saving those areas where i know grouse are for this weekend when friends come up
have hunted more new spots (30+ miles from my areas) than ever before
actually, have hunted more totally unkown spots than known covers
they are all over the place - olive autumn and acorns galore
limits of woodcock within 200 yards of starting out

perhaps you should not take your frustrations out on here, making ASSumptions based on sitting there without any knowledge or facts


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## woodwise (Sep 14, 2009)

I


TheHighLIfe said:


> woodwise (wise? really?)
> 
> averaging over 5 grouse flushes/hour. even when hunting alone
> have not hunted any spot twice (twice at a woodcock only spot).
> ...


m not calling you a liar


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## woodwise (Sep 14, 2009)

To funny, I’m not calling you a liar, me and my buddies just don’t believe you. You must have way better dogs than we have..


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

ty4 the clarification
i have no need to embellish anything

i keep records, for 30+ years, to send into grouse tales, which sends their compilation of cooperating hunters to easily compare with all MI hunters averages

my flush rate is 30-40% higher than MI hunter average - my guess is because i use a flushing lab. my 'shot at' percent is 10-20% lower, which makes sense with the lab flushing birds farther out. 'kill %' is about 4-6% lower, also because of the longer shots - i don't miss many 'gimmees'

as you can see from this thread, i am not the only one stating 'way up'

try the autumn olives (the crops of birds i have harvested have been loaded with them), and thicker cover close by the olives

good luck


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## Mark4486 (Oct 14, 2015)

How bout you guys give me all the spots you have been hunting and I’ll hunt and take a survey. Then we can compare the data and I’ll let you know what I think.


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## Mark4486 (Oct 14, 2015)




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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

mark

i have 56 years of scouting/hunting my spots. there are 200' trees that i recall being 10' high
i frustrate my son when i tell him to follow the road, and all he sees is cover - the road from the cutting disappeared 10+ years ago, but i still see it - haha

so, you have a better chance of getting a map from me to my house and bedroom where my wife is sleeping and i am away! haha


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## Missaukee Man (Sep 11, 2018)

Down for me in a couple spots that held a lot of birds the last couple years. Didn't put a lot of time in this weekend due to a few unforeseen problems, but only 3 flushes for me in areas between Lake City and Moorestown with about 6 hours on foot. Talked to 2 other groups on the road in these areas and they weren't having much luck either. I'll reserve judgment or theories until I get some more time out in different covers.


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## woodwise (Sep 14, 2009)

Grouse across Michigan aren’t migrating to your traverse city area to gorge on autumn olive. Grouse eat where their born. It’s funny that a pro trainer in your area with many grouse champions to his resume isn’t having nearly the luck as you describe.. I’ve had 40+ grouse finds in 3 braces in 2-3 hrs .. this summer in isolated areas.. I’m not adding those areas or occurrences to my overall average simply because it’s not a representation of the overall county. It’s a representation of a 100 acre spot,That happens to have a number of female carry over birds from previous year that had a great hatch with low predation. when people ask me how my numbers are I simply want to give the most accurate answer that represents the overall area. Sounds to me like your counting reflushes (rerooting)and adding to your averages.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

woodwise said:


> Grouse down in the lower near Houghton Lake, Roscommon , lake city area, I’m finding pocket of birds in some areas. Averaging 1.5 grouse per hr. Overall. The pro trainers tell me that’s about their average too. Perhaps you should hunt 20 different spots then report your averages instead of going to your best 4 covers every other day and then tell everyone how great it is.


Maybe but if your comparing this season to last season and are hunting the same spots then it is notable and a more relevant statistic.My consensus is from the same areas as last year.


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## Mark4486 (Oct 14, 2015)

From reading all of your posts it seems like you are all putting up pretty good numbers. This year for me I have been hiking 10+ miles a day and only putting up 1-2 birds and they are usually wild flushes so I can’t get a shot.


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## cdacker (Jan 10, 2011)

Numbers the same or slightly down for me. Still way better than 1.5 per hour though. If it ever gets that bad I’m done!


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## gundogguy (Oct 5, 2008)

Lamarsh said:


> I wait for the day *wise grouse hunters *post publicly online that they're putting up above average numbers in specific, named spots.


That sounds a little like redistribution of wealth. I question the wisdom of naming spots and I.D.
areas.
Me thinks you will have a long wait, do not hold hold your breath.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

Mark4486 said:


> From reading all of your posts it seems like you are all putting up pretty good numbers. This year for me I have been hiking 10+ miles a day and only putting up 1-2 birds and they are usually wild flushes so I can’t get a shot.


I imagine your passing up some birds!


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

TheHighLIfe said:


> i never hunted kalkaska county. went blind to two new spots there, flushed a lot of birds. hunt around thick areas close to acorns


I am finding most of my grouse are associated with acorns this year.All have had acorns in them so far.Makes me wonder if they are just right and tasty.ripe for the pickens just like fruit and vegetables!


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## Mark4486 (Oct 14, 2015)

birdhntr said:


> I imagine your passing up some birds!


This maybe true I’m still learning habitat and Louie does his best but I’m sure him being a beagle he passes up birds .


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

Mark4486 said:


> This maybe true I’m still learning habitat and Louie does his best but I’m sure him being a beagle he passes up birds .


Habitat for grouse: if you don't want to go in it or your spending half the time hunched over looking at the forest floor weaving throughout you found it!


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## Mark4486 (Oct 14, 2015)

birdhntr said:


> Habitat for grouse: if you don't want to go in it or your spending half the time hunched over looking at the forest floor weaving throughout you found it!


That sounds about where I’m at


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

Lamarsh said:


> Is it possible your pro trainer friend isn't being as honest as you are when it comes to giving the most accurate answer _for a respective area_? Grouse hunters are notoriously secretive. Why should anybody here assume that everybody is being 100% accurate _when it comes to specific areas_ being productive this year?
> 
> I wait for the day wise grouse hunters post publicly online that they're putting up above average numbers in specific, named spots.


who knows for sure.Grouse are where they are.My good years have never lined up with status quo(flush rates) or reports.I'm not sure that a big running field trail dog will always provide an accurate measure.They could possibly overrun,or be led or leading you away from birds at times.


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## fordman1 (Dec 12, 2015)

I moved more than last year, but I didn't think last year was all that bad.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Not grouse hunting but walking the woods I have never seen so many grouse on the property. Nelp


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

sureshot006 said:


> Not grouse hunting but walking the woods I have never seen so many grouse on the property. Nelp


I have heard they're are quite a few birds up there!:bouncy:


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

In the central UP grouse numbers seemed to be about the same as last year. 2017 though was way down from 2016 and probably the lowest I've seen in decades of hunting there.


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## augustus0603 (Oct 24, 2005)

Trophy Specialist said:


> In the central UP grouse numbers seemed to be about the same as last year. 2017 though was way down from 2016 and probably the lowest I've seen in decades of hunting there.


We experienced the same results last couple years. This weekend was extremely disappointing. I still love going though!


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

Like last year, I am seeing very few young birds this fall. I haven't been out as much as usual since my dog dies in mid-Sept. and I have a new pup now that is too young for gun work yet. I'm just hiking around with in the woods a quite a bit working on training the pup.


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## Mark4486 (Oct 14, 2015)

I didn’t go up this weekend and probably won’t this weekend coming up. But this entire season taken in as a whole my numbers were way down in my area. But woodcock was out of control for my area. I also had a lot of skidish birds where I hunted. They would flush way ahead and I could hear them but couldnt see them. And this was all season not just in the later part. Still enjoyed myself and can’t wait for next season. The fun stuff always speeds by... this season flew by


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

Overall numbers are down for me.
But.
I found young males expanding out into new habitat areas.
So, if they can lure in a couple young females, we might get some expansion.

I've been waiting for it to happen for several years. Still cautiously optimistic.

The central LP is literally covered with early successional, if it doesn't hold anything but porcupines after 5 years, maybe the habitat model is flawed.


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## augustus0603 (Oct 24, 2005)

Gamekeeper said:


> Overall numbers are down for me.
> But.
> I found young males expanding out into new habitat areas.
> So, if they can lure in a couple young females, we might get some expansion.
> ...


Agree. I've concentrated on a lot of new spots this year and saw some unbelievable habitat. Unfortunately, bird numbers (grouse) were quite low or non-existent in some. I hit edges, middles, hardwoods, swamp edges, conifers and still came up empty quite a few times. I thought numbers in Central NLP were a little better than last year though. Hoping it's the beginning of a turn around. One thing that concerns me is the complete lack of road birds seen. I do a lot of driving and saw maybe 3 birds on trails this season where I couldn't even count the number in the past.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

augustus0603 said:


> Agree. I've concentrated on a lot of new spots this year and saw some unbelievable habitat. Unfortunately, bird numbers (grouse) were quite low or non-existent in some. I hit edges, middles, hardwoods, swamp edges, conifers and still came up empty quite a few times. I thought numbers in Central NLP were a little better than last year though. Hoping it's the beginning of a turn around. One thing that concerns me is the complete lack of road birds seen. I do a lot of driving and saw maybe 3 birds on trails this season where I couldn't even count the number in the past.


You can parallel the propagation of Red grouse on heather moorland in a predator suppressed environment, and get a relative idea of how large it might be, and how long it might take, for any kind of pre-1900 style rebound to occur.

essentially, a warm, reasonably wet, spring, and no summer drought, ought to more than double pops. No sign of that so far. Acorns and berries are phenomenal this year, so, surviving hens will be in great shape next spring.

Even factoring in lower fertility in older hens, there is potential (based on available habitat) for an explosive re-population.

I want to see it.


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## wirehair (Oct 16, 2007)

I saw lower numbers this year than the past few. Hunting in the North NELP. Worked hard to find them. But found some new areas that should always hold birds. That's a big plus for the season.


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