# Amazing turkey hunting in state could be better



## Hamilton Reef (Jan 20, 2000)

Note the two suggestions Bob makes near the end of his article.

Amazing turkey hunting in state could be better 

I had a grand season. I heard birds gobble every day I hunted this spring and saw at least one tom almost every time I went. My dad got his bird the second time I took him (from the same blind). I shot mine a few days later. Excellent. 

http://www.mlive.com/outdoors/grpre...ndard.xsl?/base/sports-0/1054980955116380.xml


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

Glad Bob had a great turkey season...lots of other folks didn't, and this isn't sour grapes on my part because I had a GREAT season...but I've got to wonder how many other turkey hunters Bob talked to this season or how many other areas he observed or hunted throughout the state to say what he's suggesting...I know a lot of folks who hunted hard, very hard, and the harder they hunted, the harder the birds got to hunt. That's called the quality of the hunt, and we're losing it, steadily. When birds refuse to gobble, even on the roost, much less come to the call, hunters resort to all kinds of things they wouldn't normally do, and it's not half as much fun. 

Bob should try talking to a few of those folks-there's a lot of them right here on this board. If we can continue to regulate the hunt in some small way, we continue to hang onto a little quality-open it up, which is what Bob is suggesting, and you'll lose that...

Thank god Bob Gwizdz isn't our upland gamebird specialist, but I do think he makes a great mouthpiece to feel out Al Stewart's ideas...and that's what he's doing...I don't have any idea of what southern Michigan turkey hunters want for next year, and wouldn't suggest anything for them, that's up to them. I wish Bob would do the same when it comes to northern Michigan.

Open up the 234 hunt completely and you'll open up a huge can of worms, drawing the much more casual hunters-leaving the door open for all kinds of careless, reckless things, illegal activities, etc. Serious turkey hunters make the time to hunt, no matter what. They just do. If you want to turn the turkey season into the first few days of the firearms deer season on public land in northern Michigan, just open it up to the guys who can't remember ahead of time to buy a tag or aren't certain if they'll "be able to hunt"...and decisions about private land in northern Michigan like allowing ZZ hunters to hunt there, too, should be asked only of private landowners in northern Michigan.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

I can think of only one way to improve the hunting in our area, area ZZ, allow us to buy a second license that would allow us to hunt for a second bird in area ZZ. Just the last 2 weeks of the season would be good enough. Plently of birds and not that much pressure on private land in some regions. I doubt that many would buy a second license, but why not sell more licenses and allow more hunting in the areas that can support it ?
I would be more than happy if some or most of the new money generated went to improve habitat and/or provide winter turkey feeding programs in Northern Mich. 

L & O


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

Lots of other states, even states with what I'd describe as much smaller populations of turkeys for the habitat and huntable land available, offer two tags, L & O, and you're right, very few hunters use them. My son had his hands full in Ohio just getting one bird off the limited amount of private land he had to hunt...and getting a bird off of public land in Ohio is almost impossible without crawling over 10 other hunters...but if there are adequate numbers of birds, and the hunters wanted it in southern MI, sure, why not...?

Hey, that gives me an idea, if ZZ hunters are allowed to come up north to hunt during the long season on private land, why not let all the guys with tags for one of the state's other earlier one week seasons do the same in southern MI?

The DNR can keep the money...they seem to really be in need of it...


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Linda,
That works for me. 2nd license available to anyone the last 2 weeks of the season on private land in area ZZ. 

L & O


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## steveh27 (Oct 23, 2000)

I've hunted in 5 states the past 3 years. We must NEVER have unlimited over the counter permits for public land. That destroys the calling in of birds & leaves just ambushing them, like deer hunting in a blind. I also disagree with the idea of 2 permits. There are so many people trying turkey hunting that the limited resource should be spread around. Be happy if you got one, even if it was in the first 15 minutes, and dream about next year. This grand bird of ours needs to be kept on a pedestal.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

Bravo, Steve...you, quite obviously, are a serious turkey hunter. Offering more opportunity does not necessarily mean better hunting...often, it's just the opposite...I wish we had more folks like you...


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## Hamilton Reef (Jan 20, 2000)

I also agree with Steveh27. In my area of ZZ we could consider the second license with no harm to the population, but there should not be any blanket liberalizations statewide.


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## TUCKER (Nov 1, 2002)

I dont want to ruffle any feathers, but what ever happened to the good ol' days when we had to quit hunting during midday. The birds were a lot more talkative back then because they had a break from all the pressure. Personally I have heard of too many birds that were ambushed at there roosting trees sometimes before and sometimes after legal hunting ours. That, to me, takes all the fun out of being a turkey hunter and seems unethical. It would have been nice if the State could end the hours at three or four and give the Turkeys a little break once again and take away the temptation for someone to violate them when they go back to roost.


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## Hamilton Reef (Jan 20, 2000)

Again I agree with TUCKER. I'm noticing that as more turkeys become available to the expanded areas, that more amateurs are entering the hunt. This is supposed to promote the sport, but we are now getting more of the "I have to kill a bird macho" to match their young egos to the veteran hunters. This is not unlike the "have to kill a buck deer" syndrome. They will bend the rules to join the braggarts club which detracts from the quality of the hunt. The DNR is trying to satisfy everyone and that is not possible.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

It gives me hope to read this thread...bravo, bravo, bravo...now, if only the DNR and the rest of the state would listen to us-it's NOT going to get any easier to hunt turkeys if we chase them all day long, from dawn till (sometimes) after dusk, with more and more hunters out there, during a season that lasts more than 6 weeks...again, BRAVO to those who believe in quality hunting!!


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## TUCKER (Nov 1, 2002)

Not to sound redundant, but as I see it we have more of an opportunity to kill a turkey now than ever. More people hunting. At some point in time we should be willing to give something up for all of these added opportunities that we have gained. I think a few hunting hours would be a good start!


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## jscott27 (Dec 20, 2001)

Based on the last few comments, I would infer that some people are running into other hunters? I am one of those horrible new turkey hunters  , but this past season, I didn't see any other hunters in the woods (other than the one I was hunting with). I was hunting state land mostly over weekends, too.

I guess this just demonstrates that I wasn't in very good locations for turkeys


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## steveh27 (Oct 23, 2000)

JScott,

Other than trespassing road hunters a few years back, I usually don't have interference from other hunters in Michigan, especially on public land. That is due to the state's lottery for a limited number of available permits for public land. If Michigan ever went to unlimited, over the counter permits on public land (like I've seen in OK) the concept of calling in a gobbler would not work. Too many hunters would be chasing them all over. It was a real eyeopener 2 years ago when I put to roost 2 long beards in OK. The next morning I snuck to within 200 yds, heard them flydown & get shot by a hunter under their roost. Then at least 6 other hunters stood up & came out from all around me. The turkeys were running onto the private land as fast as they could go.

I would be happy to cut the legal hunting hours to ending at 4PM like we used to have, as the other posters suggested. This would stop ambushing them at their roost trees in the evening. I do not see a need to quit at noon like we originally had when I started turkey hunting in the 70's.


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## jscott27 (Dec 20, 2001)

> If Michigan ever went to unlimited, over the counter permits on public land (like I've seen in OK) the concept of calling in a gobbler would not work.


But that is effectively what MI has in the N. LP. The only difference is that we have to be smart enough to purchase our permits ahead of time. The only truly limited permits in MI are for public land in the S. half of the LP. 

Oh, and to be clear, it isn't important to me one way or the other if they change the regs. My question was just one of curiousity.

Also, I don't see how anyone can really hunt the whole day during turkey season. During the late season hunt, you needed to be out in the woods before 6, and I believe that legal hunting hours go past 9PM. Throw in a little bit of drive time and time to walk to / from your vehicle, and there isn't much left!


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## steveh27 (Oct 23, 2000)

JScott,

You are correct that hunt No. 234 is guaranteed & is good for public land in the N LP, but it is does not start until May 5. The area I hunted for 30 years is in F, and I would try for the 800 available permits for April 21-April 27, or April 28 -May 4. I believe all of the other units first 2 weeks are also with limited quotas of varying amounts depending upon area and projected turkey populations. I hope Michigan can avoid the problems I've found in other states by keeping the hunting pressure spread out. Didn't 234 just start a few years ago? The DNR should not let it cover the first 2 hunting periods or my concerns may be realized.

I agree it is near impossible to hunt all day & be up to go the next morning. Sleep is a necessity. In PA hunting ends at noon & you are required to be out of the turkey woods by 1 PM. I wish you could hunt longer, but they have unlimited permits. In TX, OK, & WY, all with unlimited permits, you can hunt all day. I like to have the option to hunt until 4, but after that I like to shower, eat, relax & get a good nights sleep before the alarm. Due to my bad experience in OK I've only hunted private land in TX, WY & PA. I'm considering hunting the public Black Hills of SD next year based on talks with hunters there this year.


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## Tony H. (Feb 6, 2003)

Here's a reply I'm sure Linda G. won't like.

I find it laughable that Linda equates non-gobbling turkeys to something other than nature's way. The birds aren't gobbling because the DNR mismanaged them? Give me a break. The birds didn't gobble anywhere this year. I hunted SD, Ohio, Michigan and it was all the same. It was a weird spring and that's the way it is.

Furthermore, once again Linda's trying to say southern Michigan folks should have no say in how northern Michigan is managed and, of course, the DNR is out to get them.

How about those northern lower birds? I hunted them a bunch this year and, guess what? They didn't gobble any more or less than the southern Michigan birds did. The only thing they did was confirm my theory that they aren't quite as smart as they could be. These birds roosted right beside a house that was being built. They'd wander in all day long regardless of how much activity was around. Why? To get to the feeders of course. You know. Those winter feeders that don't make the birds tame. And there were birds everywhere I went. So much for winterkill and the DNR's wrong count.

We could walk up to these birds and chase them off and they'd be back in an hour. I finally said forget it about shooting one because it felt like a canned hunt.

Also, I hunt a lot of public land in southern Michigan. My time in the northern lower was the only time I had anyone come barging in while I was set up on birds. These "hunters" stopped their truck by a posted sign and started owl-hooting. The birds answered so they jump out and come waltzing into the woods in plain view of the birds onthe roost. Normal birds would have spooked right away. But these didn't and gave me a chance to tell the slobs to beat it.

Here's the bottom line: The DNR has done a great job with the turkey system and Al Stewart knows what he's doing. I've talked with him and hunted with him which I'm certain is more than some "journalists" have done. Is there room for improvement? Always. I personally like the lottery system and the staggered seasons. I think they keep the qaulity of the hunt high but in no way do I think this year's non-gobbling toms had anything to do with our licensing system. That's just lunacy.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Tony,
Did you get up on the wrong side of the roost this morning ?

L & O


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## Tony H. (Feb 6, 2003)

Not at all. The whole issue of North vs. South just gets old and is absolutely unproductive. The DNR has done a great job of managing our turkey population. It really bothers those that have worked for the betterment of the flock to read garbage about how "the DNR has turned its back on the north", the "southern hunters shouldn't come to northern Michigan", "the southern flock has all the help." Blah, blah, blah. 

I don't mean to sound crabby but post after post after post, it's the same tired story. Like I said, I don't think we should go to an open license system. I like the staggered seasons and lottery. But it has nothing to do with gobbling birds or that nonsense.


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## steveh27 (Oct 23, 2000)

Tony,

I reread all of the post on this thread & do not find the north vs. south theme you're saying there is. I know generalties always have exceptions. Location is as important with turkeys as it is with real estate. 

I believe Linda has worked for the betterment of the flock. Without the winter feeding help of some private organizations the northern turkey populations would be hurt.

I also believe the northern LP population "in general" is down from a few years ago. The DNR has said there will not be a fall hunt to compensate. They react, sometimes slowly, sometimes not. No one know all of the answers, not even the DNR. Some people suggest West Nile Virus may have had an impact, others believe winter or poor spring nesting weather had more impact, some suggest the deer feeding ban has hurt the winter survival of turkeys.

My belief is gobbling or lack thereof is bue to 1) which cycle of the breeding season the birds are in, 2) the current weather (rainy, windy, etc.), 3) the amount of hunting pressure, and 4) the number of birds.


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