# 16' square stern canoe build



## BumpRacerX (Dec 31, 2009)

Ran into a little snag today mounting the twister... guessing I can't just clamp things down onto the nuts eh?

What's my best play here? Drill new holes and replace the transom wood?


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## BumpRacerX (Dec 31, 2009)

Ready for a sea trial run now. Tongue light sitting on the trailer. Put a bag of decoys in the bow and it's okay. Also will mount a spare up front on the underside of the trailer frame to help add weight as well.

People with experience running canoes at bingos with dikes, what is your preference for going over the dike? Unload and carry or rollers?


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## adam bomb (Feb 27, 2006)

I had a 2 HP on mine and that was more than enough 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Partial unload and carry.

The pullovers can be brutal, sharp stones. You don't necessarily have to pull over at the pull over either.


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## Outdoor Gal (Sep 9, 2008)

Hubby and I unload and carry our 17ft. canoe over the dikes. Easy to do with two people and usually faster than winching over a dike.


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

I’ve got a 17’ Grumman square and a 30# trolling motor will push two guys and their gear about 3mph on a pond. Got one of those canoe add on transoms to put it out to the side for comfort. The straight behind thing was too uncomfortable with my 2.5hp outboard and I never liked the weight off the side in places I might hit a log and tilt the canoe, been swimming in the cold too many times. If I were pushing up a river I’d use a 50#.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

my square stern canoe build


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Keep inventory of the stuff you unload. Not that I've ever left anything.


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## BumpRacerX (Dec 31, 2009)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> my square stern canoe build
> 
> View attachment 858901


Theoretically, if one was so inclined...could a person slap a lewis winch and some runners on a cheap michicraft like mine? That would be the cats meow for a 2 person rig until I can find the right GSB.


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## BumpRacerX (Dec 31, 2009)

Outdoor Gal said:


> Hubby and I unload and carry our 17ft. canoe over the dikes. Easy to do with two people and usually faster than winching over a dike.


That's pretty much what I'm thinking. My son (12 year old) and I unloaded and carried 80-100 yards this weekend after a dad fail resulted in picking a spot that had a big hump of dry land on the way to it. It really wasn't that bad. Only difference at Shia is that the motor will be on. Make an extra trip to lift and haul that. 

A winch would be nice though.


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

I have a 16' seanymph square end and a 2.5 horse johnson. I have a cart that hauls my canoe and my kayak. I haven't used the canoe for several years and my wife says it needs to go but it's still behind the garage.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Leave the trailer attached. Easier to get through the shallow stuff and you can power load up the dikes.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Who needs a Drotto!


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## BumpRacerX (Dec 31, 2009)

adam bomb said:


> I had a 2 HP on mine and that was more than enough
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


I'm really kind of leaning towards a small outboard right now. The Twister is a pretty sweet drive, but I think it's going to be a lot more clumsy and awkward to actually operate. The other issue with it that I'm having is that the Predator starts great warm air temps, but doesn't like to start when it's less than 30 degrees outside. Kind of a PITA.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

BumpRacerX said:


> Theoretically, if one was so inclined...could a person slap a lewis winch and some runners on a cheap michicraft like mine? That would be the cats meow for a 2 person rig until I can find the right GSB.


heres my opinion. it may not be popular. so....sorry if offends. ditch the mud motor and the winch idea. keep canoe simple with either very small outboard and/or paddles. much more valuable as a hunting tool that way. can be pulled by hand over any dike in the state. even with outboard on it and gear in it.

then....take that mud skipper and put it on a 1436 flat. then mount a winch. now you have a 2 REAL rigs that will cover every possibility in the state.

mud motors andcanoes seriously donot work together as they cancel out each others advantages.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

if yers was a grumman i would say rails and a winch and it will do everything but its a much much different hull and strengths are much different than yours. bonus to yours is its a very lightweight setup...can be hauled on roof and dropped in anywhere and paddles great very popular canoe back in the day. we had a couple and ran 4hp weedless johnsons on them. was unstoppable in weeds/marshes. hard to find one of those motors these days also called a evinrude angle drive. notice the angle on the output prop shaft on bottom of unit. thats the dead give away.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

they also utilize a shear pin with a plastic hub and rubber clutch. if you run that motor have spare spins and clutch in yer blind bag as you will bust clutch hub up a few times hittin logs


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## BumpRacerX (Dec 31, 2009)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> heres my opinion. it may not be popular. so....sorry if offends. ditch the mud motor and the winch idea. keep canoe simple with either very small outboard and/or paddles. much more valuable as a hunting tool that way. can be pulled by hand over any dike in the state. even with outboard on it and gear in it.
> 
> then....take that mud skipper and put it on a 1436 flat. then mount a winch. now you have a 2 REAL rigs that will cover every possibility in the state.
> 
> mud motors andcanoes seriously donot work together as they cancel out each others advantages.


No offense taken at all, and glad you chimed in. Was already kinda thinking ditch the mud motor for this canoe. The steering tiller is going to be really awkward to try to run on this rig. And the twister is a ton of weight hanging off the back of the boat. The two just aren't a good long term match. Still trying to find what I want to run for an outboard, but toying with just ordering a $275 chinese unit off amazon and seeing what happens.


Shiawassee_Kid said:


> if yers was a grumman i would say rails and a winch and it will do everything but its a much much different hull and strengths are much different than yours. bonus to yours is its a very lightweight setup...can be hauled on roof and dropped in anywhere and paddles great very popular canoe back in the day. we had a couple and ran 4hp weedless johnsons on them. was unstoppable in weeds/marshes. hard to find one of those motors these days also called a evinrude angle drive. notice the angle on the output prop shaft on bottom of unit. thats the dead give away.
> View attachment 859033


How hard is it to find parts for the angle drive units...I think I know where one is for sale, but she wants $300 for it and it would be a gamble (allegedly runs...but needs the recoil fixed).


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## Tavor (Sep 10, 2011)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> View attachment 859033


Those are great motors for duck hunting.
That one looks like a mid '70's model.
Note that if you go about a decade older or a decade newer, you then have the option of getting one with an integral fuel tank which eliminates the need to haul a separate tank and hose. That's really handy in the managed areas where the travelled distances are not long.
I have read that on some integral-tank models, you can add a standard fuel pump and have the choice of switching between integral or remote tank as you see fit. I have never tried that.


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## Tavor (Sep 10, 2011)

BumpRacerX said:


> How hard is it to find parts for the angle drive units...I think I know where one is for sale, but she wants $300 for it and it would be a gamble (allegedly runs...but needs the recoil fixed).


They sold a billion of those little motors, so parts are still easy to come by.
The perishables, like points, plugs, condensers, coils and impellers are widely available as new aftermarket parts. The rest are rather easily scrounged on sites like ebay or some online parts houses, but in my experience, they rarely need parts. Almost never.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Tavor said:


> They sold a billion of those little motors, so parts are still easy to come by.
> The perishables, like points, plugs, condensers, coils and impellers are widely available as new aftermarket parts. The rest are rather easily scrounged on sites like ebay or some online parts houses, but in my experience, they rarely need parts. Almost never.


yeah i got 2 of them. they are on my do not sell list  right next to my do no sell grumman. hehe.


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## gaustin (Jan 14, 2009)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> yeah i got 2 of them. they are on my do not sell list  right next to my do no sell grumman. hehe.


You have all the cool toys


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## goosehunter31 (Sep 22, 2009)

I have been running this motor on my Grumman the last 3 seasons and have absolutely 0 complaints about it. I went with the lightest or second lightest model kit on the market, my 4 horse outboard is damn near the same weight


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## BumpRacerX (Dec 31, 2009)

$60 with brand new spare prop. Need to find a tank yet. Bought it off a guy that said it ran great but hadn't been used in 3-4 years. Also had a 3hp normal angle drive with the built in tank that I may snag as well.

How did I do?


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## flighthunter (Nov 21, 2005)

Good buy.


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## Tavor (Sep 10, 2011)

You stole it. Great motor for your canoe.
I'll recommend that you drain and refill the gearbox, then try to start it.
If it starts easily and runs well at high and low speed, you're good to go.
If it is hard to start or runs rough, take the time to give it a thorough tune-up, both electrical and carburetion.
If you have or can find an owner's manual, it has step by step directions on how to adjust the carburetor. Follow the directions to a tee.
Points and condensers are easily replaced under the flywheel.
Give it a once-over and it will run like a million bucks, and it will almost push your canoe across wet grass.


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## BumpRacerX (Dec 31, 2009)

Square stern made it's first motorized appearance at a Wetland Wonder yesterday. We roof racked it vs using the trailer. A week or so ago I picked up what I call the Chinesium outboard off the internet. Hangkai 3.6hp air cooled four stroke. It was cheap ($251.23 to be exact, including tax and shipping) and I figured it would work fine for putting around until I could get the angle drive outboard running.

We had a great draw, and I wanted to see how it did. So we went for a long ride. 

Chinesium outboard starts very easy and runs well. There's absolutely no way it's anywhere close to the HP rating claimed. If it's 2hp I'd be amazing. As such... it also is not fast. And by not fast, I mean it's slow. Think...4mph on the GPS. Wide open we hit 5. We used waaaaaaaay more fuel than we anticipated getting to our destination. The ride back was a question of...when are we going to run out of gas. Not if we were going to run out of gas.

It'll work for now as a filler until I can get the other outboard build done. 

Portage was relatively easy.

We ran out of gas 100 yards or so from the launch on the return trip. It was pretty hilarious. Fortunately I had a pair of carbon fiber canoe paddles onboard to finish up our journey.

Really impressed for $250. Now to see if I can get a little more out of it.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

How slow is it? We left the pullover at the same time, and granted they had to stop to clear the prop of weeds, but I beat them back in a head wind, in a kayak, with enough time to pack the car and be waiting to hear them sputter out of gas just before the landing.

Then, Bump doesn't have blisters and ferried back my decoy bag for me.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

BumpRacerX said:


> Square stern made it's first motorized appearance at a Wetland Wonder yesterday. We roof racked it vs using the trailer. A week or so ago I picked up what I call the Chinesium outboard off the internet. Hangkai 3.6hp air cooled four stroke. It was cheap ($251.23 to be exact, including tax and shipping) and I figured it would work fine for putting around until I could get the angle drive outboard running.
> 
> We had a great draw, and I wanted to see how it did. So we went for a long ride.
> 
> ...


Four stroke about half the horsepower of a two-stroke rating I would plum in a line and put another tank in the front bow of the boat


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

I wouldn't worry about the consumption is just the tank is really small plumbing to 5 gallon up front and that thing will last you all day plus the next day and the next day and the next day


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## BumpRacerX (Dec 31, 2009)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> How slow is it? We left the pullover at the same time, and granted they had to stop to clear the prop of weeds, but I beat them back in a head wind, in a kayak, with enough time to pack the car and be waiting to hear them sputter out of gas just before the landing.
> 
> Then, Bump doesn't have blisters and ferried back my decoy bag for me.


We'd have had a shot but for stopping to clear the prop. At least that's my story. 

That was the trade off. I love paddling. But it was pretty nice to just there and steer for a change even if it was at slow speed.


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## BumpRacerX (Dec 31, 2009)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> I wouldn't worry about the consumption is just the tank is really small plumbing to 5 gallon up front and that thing will last you all day plus the next day and the next day and the next day


Adding this to the list of mods to make. Probably under the front seat? 

I also now understand why people would rather have an outboard and pole to your zone once in the field than some of the slower mud motor options.


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## the_skog (Jan 19, 2006)

Good to know. I was thinking about rolling the dice on a small Amazon outboard for my canoe build. Guess I will pass and keep my eye out for a good deal on a more proven motor.


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## BumpRacerX (Dec 31, 2009)

the_skog said:


> Good to know. I was thinking about rolling the dice on a small Amazon outboard for my canoe build. Guess I will pass and keep my eye out for a good deal on a more proven motor.


For the price point, it's remarkable impressive. I beat the bloody hell out of it yesterday just to see what would happen. She was wide open for a large portion of the ride in (on accident contributing to the poor fuel economy I'm sure). Did bad things to it that I would have never dreamed of doing to a nice motor. Drug it across bottom. Ran it through the weeds (didn't realize what was wrong when we lost our speed thankfully Fishfighter plays with small engines and outboards and knew exactly what was up). Drug it up the landing when we left. It never missed a beat. 

It's just not fast.

Once the Johnson is ready for duty I might turn Fish loose on it and see if we can make it scream.


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## Fishfighter (Dec 20, 2009)

The outboard itself is probably a solid motor but it would need nearly three times the CCs to compare to other outboards in the class it claims to be in. I do think stock it would be good for NQP.


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## Tavor (Sep 10, 2011)

Be aware, that weedless Johnson is no speed demon either. The lower unit, while great for going through weeds, is not nearly as efficient as a conventional lower unit.
My son has a 3hp Johnson with a standard lower unit. I believe it pushes a boat faster than a 4hp weedless. But for me the weedless feature is well worth the tradeoff in speed, unless it is only used in open water.
Frankly, I think any 4hp motor is plenty for a canoe. Be careful with the speed. Duck hunting and capsized boats don't mix well, and canoes were never meant to go fast.


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## BumpRacerX (Dec 31, 2009)

Tavor said:


> Be aware, that weedless Johnson is no speed demon either. The lower unit, while great for going through weeds, is not nearly as efficient as a conventional lower unit.
> My son has a 3hp Johnson with a standard lower unit. I believe it pushes a boat faster than a 4hp weedless. But for me the weedless feature is well worth the tradeoff in speed, unless it is only used in open water.
> Frankly, I think any 4hp motor is plenty for a canoe. Be careful with the speed. Duck hunting and capsized boats don't mix well, and canoes were never meant to go fast.


What type of speed do you get out of the weedless 4hp? We teased 5mph on the GPS yesterday but mainly ran 4.5 on the high end. I'm thinking if we could get a 6mph average out of it while loaded I'd be happy. I don't need super speed. But losing to FBD in a banana yellow kayak might be where the line is drawn. 

There's no way the Chinesium is actually hitting the power rating they claim. It's a 50cc single cylinder. Predator 212cc is 6.5hp. The Briggs and Stratton 5hp air cooled is right around 190cc.


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## Bigeejakes (Nov 11, 2011)

My guess is you'll see about the same speed. My canoe and weedless 4hp is about 35mins to the first 30s pull (into the triangle). 6hp is not much different (maybe a few minutes) but isn't worth the extra weight imo. You can only get so much speed from a canoe because it isn't a plane-ing Hull.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk


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## Fishfighter (Dec 20, 2009)

Bigeejakes said:


> My guess is you'll see about the same speed. My canoe and weedless 4hp is about 35mins to the first 30s pull (into the triangle). 6hp is not much different (maybe a few minutes) but isn't worth the extra weight imo. You can only get so much speed from a canoe because it isn't a plane-ing Hull.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk


I'm guessing his rig will gain 1 or 2 mph on the top end. not a huge gain but more horses also means you can find that sweet spot where the hull is at a good speed and keep the motor off the rev limiter.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

I foresee rage and back acne as I start popping 'roids like candy before our next trip.


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