# Overpass Death



## frenchriver1

How can any fool think that this is a fun outdoor activity? String them up from an overpass.


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## frenchriver1

At this time it appears some high school kids are in for some hard life lessons. Starting with, you don't engage in "fun" activities that endanger or possibly end some person's life...


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## DecoySlayer

Hopefully prison will straighten them out, if they survive the experience.


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## swampbuck

Prison doesn't straighten anyone out. Although I agree that is where they belong.


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## DecoySlayer

It's been known help one or two, once every zillion years or so.


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## Al L

News tonight named 5 teen agers, charged with murder. All go to Clio high school.

 Al


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## DecoySlayer

I hope the throw the book at them. They deserve that.


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## Aaronjeep2

I read a few of them Could get life in prison good. This was obviously planned they thought it out.


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## hommer23

It was a very stupid mistake!! one bad decision made on their part don't mean they are bad kids or have bad parents. Think about some of the things you did when you were 14-16 years old, I know I did a bunch of things that were stupid or could of hurt someone. My thought go out to ALL the families involved, each and every one have already lost so much!!!


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## DecoySlayer

A man is dead. They deserve whatever comes their way. It was a deliberate act.


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## capper

I just saw all the kids pictures in the news - what a shame - they all look like normal neighborhood kids. What a waste of lives - all around!


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## DecoySlayer

It is a shame. Lives wasted all around. They must be made to answer for what they did.


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## Al L

Some one a few years back threw I believe a scare crow off the Oak road Over pass east of M 15 on I 69. Scared a woman so bad she went off the road and hit a tree and died.

All that throwing stuff off the over passes needs to stop and I do not believe we the tax payers should have to foot a bill to fence them all in.

I think that all each and ever one should go to prison. Make a big deal out of teen age boys doing stupid crazy stuff so word gets out that it isn't a fun game to drop crap off over passes.

I am sorry they felt it was a cool prank but being stupid should not get them out of paying the price for a mans death. 

Give a bit of thought to the dead mans family. His wife now has to raise her kids alone, Ya maybe she will remarry at some point but that doesn't mean the guy she marries will become a real dad to the kids. Also now these kids will spend time at a sitters while mom works to support them. Maybe her job will not provide enough to keep their home so they have to move some place they can afford. 

Nope being stupid isn't a ticket to get away with murder any way you look at it.
Besides in prison they can have a boy friend and life a life of 3 squares and a cot in country club style.

Hey lets do the bible trick and stone them to death.

 Al


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## Aaronjeep2

hommer23 said:


> It was a very stupid mistake!! one bad decision made on their part don't mean they are bad kids or have bad parents. Think about some of the things you did when you were 14-16 years old, I know I did a bunch of things that were stupid or could of hurt someone. My thought go out to ALL the families involved, each and every one have already lost so much!!!


I've done a lot of stupid things as a kid but I've never put any ones life in danger with the crap I did. They threw 6 pound rocks off a bridge at cars what did they think was going to happen ?


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## hommer23

Aaronjeep2 said:


> I've done a lot of stupid things as a kid but I've never put any ones life in danger with the crap I did. They threw 6 pound rocks off a bridge at cars what did they think was going to happen ?


Have you ever speed or sent a text while driving? Have you ever looked back at your kids because they were fighting in the backseat? Have you ever been distracted while driving by the deer standing in the field? All those things can kill people, all those things are just a laps in judgement on a persons part, and yet people (adults) do it every day. I am not saying give them a free pass, I am saying think before you judge the kids or their families on a public forum.


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## Aaronjeep2

hommer23 said:


> Have you ever speed or sent a text while driving? Have you ever looked back at your kids because they were fighting in the backseat? Have you ever been distracted while driving by the deer standing in the field? All those things can kill people, all those things are just a laps in judgement on a persons part, and yet people (adults) do it every day. I am not saying give them a free pass, I am saying think before you judge the kids or their families on a public forum.


They threw over 20 rocks the biggest one was 20 pounds. They killed the guy jumped in a car and went to eat at McDonald's to eat that's not right. I never judged the family's I'm judging the kids who had intent to do bodily harm.


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## hommer23

They also threw a tire and rotor off the bridge on Farrand road and 75. Of the 5 kids in jail 1 of them threw the rock that killed a man. How do you know they had intent to kill a man? I am 100% sure they had no intent to kill anyone. They most likely had intent to damage a few cars by playing ding whatever they called it. At their age they didn’t think it out, all the what if questions that an adult would have thought of.


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## Aaronjeep2

So they threw a tire and rotor off a bridge to.


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## DecoySlayer

Sorry, there is no excuse. They did the crime, they have to do the time. IF they ever get out, they should have to pay restitution to the family they wantonly destroyed. What they did was no different than a drive by shooting.


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## swampbuck

It's a really tough situation, I think we have probably all done something that could have resulted in someone's death. Drunk driving, careless/reckless driving, and probably other things that none of us want to think about. When I was a young, our group of neighborhood kids got busted for throwing struff at cars from an embankment along a road. Put a big dent in the side of a motor home, and had to pay for it.

Those kids did something really stupid, and need to suffer the consequences. I bet they are in phycological hell right now, along with their family's.

I believe they should do some prison time, but not life. 

You have to consider intent and malice. And I don't think either apply. Certainly carelessness, disregard, and stupidity does.

I would think something in the range of 5 years, heavy on rehabilitation. Followed by legnthy mandatory community service, focused on educating young people regarding actions and consequences.

And restitution to the affected family, until the children are adults, including college expenses.

I don't see a long prison sentence helping anything in this case.


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## Greatest hunter in world?

hommer23 said:


> Once again, try to follow.
> The Kids were 100% wrong for throwing the rocks.
> The Kids need to be punished for throwing the rocks.
> The Kids do not have the same mental capacity as an adult, although I wonder about a few adults on here.
> That does not make all of them guilty of murder.
> 
> The game of dinging is played by kids, the intent of dinging is to throw, toss or drop an object at or on the metal surface of a car to hear the pinging sound. It is not, nor was it, the intent to kill anybody.
> 
> Adult can act just as stupid, when the siblings are getting texts and emails threatening to beat their ass, kill or stone them. What I am asking or trying to do, is get people to keep the bashing out of social media. Look at some of the things you do everyday, and realize they can cause death to others and you could be facing second degree murder charges. The reason I chose "texting" is most people do it while driving at some point, and most don't think it will cause an accident or think it won't happen to them. Yet everyday people are killed from kids and adults texting and driving, society has became numb to it or they just don't want to compare it to second degree murder charge. After all killing a man playing a stupid game is different than, killing a man to send a funny text to your hunting buddy.


Are you these kids uncle or something? What you're saying sounds absolutely ridiculous an is completely out of line with the facts of this case. You should probably just stop now. Throwing 20 lb rocks onto cars traveling 70 mph from an overpass is not the "game of dinging." To suggest as much is willful denial of what really happened here, which makes me think you have some sort of emotional attachment to these boys that clouds your judgment.


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## Greatest hunter in world?

hommer23 said:


> You keep saying "depraved indifference" I could see that. However out of the kids involved, how many threw a large rock or object? How many threw a rock at a vehicle? How many protested to throwing the rocks? How many threw the rocks on the road or the shoulder? If the kids were looking at the opisite side of the bridge when one threw the rock that killed the passenger then it can't be depraved indifference.


An accomplice to a crime is charged as if he actually committed the crime. These teens had a moral and legal obligation to at the very least, say to their friend "you're a psychopath, I'm out of here", and morally to prevent their friend from doing something which could clearly kill someone.


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## DecoySlayer

hommer23 said:


> You keep saying "depraved indifference" I could see that. However out of the kids involved, how many threw a large rock or object? How many threw a rock at a vehicle? How many protested to throwing the rocks? How many threw the rocks on the road or the shoulder? If the kids were looking at the opisite side of the bridge when one threw the rock that killed the passenger then it can't be depraved indifference.


All this will come out at trial. 

There are a lot of "what if's". Like What if only one dropped a rock, BUT, all helped carry those rocks out on the overpass? Just one of the many "what if's".


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## Greatest hunter in world?

DecoySlayer said:


> Don't get "hung up" on intent. Regardless of intent it is still depraved indifference.


Intent is the crucial element of a crime. Intent separates accidental manslaughter from murder.


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## DecoySlayer

Read the definition of "depraved indifference" I posted.


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## Greatest hunter in world?

DecoySlayer said:


> Read the definition of "depraved indifference" I posted.


It's another way of saying recklessness, which is a level of intent that separates murder from manslaughter, the latter of which only requires negligence. So again, intent is the crux of this situation.


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## Petronius

hommer23 said:


> Once again, try to follow.
> The Kids were 100% wrong for throwing the rocks.
> The Kids need to be punished for throwing the rocks.
> The Kids do not have the same mental capacity as an adult, although I wonder about a few adults on here.
> That does not make all of them guilty of murder.
> 
> The game of dinging is played by kids, the intent of dinging is to throw, toss or drop an object at or on the metal surface of a car to hear the pinging sound. It is not, nor was it, the intent to kill anybody.
> 
> Adult can act just as stupid, when the siblings are getting texts and emails threatening to beat their ass, kill or stone them. What I am asking or trying to do, is get people to keep the bashing out of social media. Look at some of the things you do everyday, and realize they can cause death to others and you could be facing second degree murder charges. The reason I chose "texting" is most people do it while driving at some point, and most don't think it will cause an accident or think it won't happen to them. Yet everyday people are killed from kids and adults texting and driving, society has became numb to it or they just don't want to compare it to second degree murder charge. After all killing a man playing a stupid game is different than, killing a man to send a funny text to your hunting buddy.


I stand by my post.
You really seem to be going out of your way to offer excuses for the rock throwers. Do you have some vested interest in playing their actions? Sounds like you are closer to the individuals than you will admit.
Maybe you should be part of their defense team.


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## DecoySlayer

Here, just to make it easy. 

If I understand this correctly, charging under "depraved indifference" "negates" the idea of intent. 

_"To constitute depraved indifference, the defendant's conduct must be 'so wanton, so deficient in a moral sense of concern, so lacking in regard for the life or lives of others, and so blameworthy as to warrant the same criminal liability as that which the law imposes upon a person who intentionally causes a crime."_


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## Greatest hunter in world?

DecoySlayer said:


> Here, just to make it easy.
> 
> If I understand this correctly, charging under "depraved indifference" "negates" the idea of intent.
> 
> _"To constitute depraved indifference, the defendant's conduct must be 'so wanton, so deficient in a moral sense of concern, so lacking in regard for the life or lives of others, and so blameworthy as to warrant the same criminal liability as that which the law imposes upon a person who intentionally causes a crime."_


You're right that this act seems to fit the depraved indifference or depraved heart murder doctrine, but that is still considered a "level" of intent. From the wiki artcle:



> In the 1946 case, _Commonwealth v. Malone_, the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania affirmed the conviction of a teenager on the charge of second degree murder using the depraved-heart doctrine. The teenager in question had set up a game of Russian roulette which ended in the death of another teenager, a friend of the defendant. When tried for the crime of murder, his defense argued that since he had no intent to kill, the defendant could not be convicted of murder. The prosecution successfully argued using the depraved-heart doctrine that his *recklessness and carelessness amounted to a level of negligence sufficient to serve as evidence of criminally culpable intent. *


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## multibeard

hommer

You keep reminding me of the kin and friends of some one that pulls a gun on a LEO and gets shot and killed. They all say they were such a great person. Maybe they were until they pulled the gun on the cop and lost their life. Doing some thing stupid does not make them innocent.


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## hommer23

You may be correct on me quitting now. I should of taken my own advice of staying out of social media. I will answer your questions first.

I am not related to any of the parties involved, I do live in the community though. 
I have no vested interest in this tragic event. 
I am taking the facts into account and not what the media is putting out as facts. 

And depraved indifference could apply, if knowledge was there, to many variables though to say it “is” at this time.

I have never said the kids shouldn’t be punished, never said they should get a pass. I have said people need to take their age into account, and their part into account.


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## Greatest hunter in world?

multibeard said:


> hommer
> 
> You keep reminding me of the kin and friends of some one that pulls a gun on a LEO and gets shot and killed. They all say they were such a great person. Maybe they were until they pulled the gun on the cop and lost their life. Doing some thing stupid does not make them innocent.


Yup, you see a quote in the Detroit Freep saying "he was a good boy, he didn't do anything, a talented athlete and aspiring rapper who was just about to turn his life around." 

For these kids, I'm sure hommer will be quoted in the Clio Daily saying "They were good buys, they were just playing the game of "ding", talented football players and aspiring country musicians who were just about to turn their lives around."


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## Petronius

hommer23 said:


> You may be correct on me quitting now. I should of taken my own advice of staying out of social media. I will answer your questions first.
> 
> I am not related to any of the parties involved, I do live in the community though.
> I have no vested interest in this tragic event.
> I am taking the facts into account and not what the media is putting out as facts.
> 
> And depraved indifference could apply, if knowledge was there, to many variables though to say it “is” at this time.
> 
> I have never said the kids shouldn’t be punished, never said they should get a pass. I have said people need to take their age into account, and their part into account.


I can see where their age could be taken into account, either chronological or mental age. But they are not 12 or 13 years old nor developmentally disabled. This was not an accidental rock throw, it was done with the intent to at the least, damage property. The act of throwing items from an overpass onto vehicles below brings the risk of causing harm or death. There have been enough of these cases over the years for them to understand that.


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## Petronius

Kenneth Andrew White, 32, of Mt. Morris, was killed on Wednesday, Oct. 18, after a rock was thrown off an overpass and smashed through the windshield of the vehicle he was riding in. Photo provided by the Genesee County Sheriff's Office.


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## Greatest hunter in world?

petronius said:


> Kenneth Andrew White, 32, of Mt. Morris, was killed on Wednesday, Oct. 18, after a rock was thrown off an overpass and smashed through the windshield of the vehicle he was riding in. Photo provided by the Genesee County Sheriff's Office.


Man, what a tragedy. Breaks my heart that little boy will grow up without a father just because some psychopathic brats decided to "play the game of ding". Put them in jail for as long as possible.


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## TK81

Greatest hunter in world? said:


> An 18 year old pursuing a 15 year old is creepy and they should be rightfully punished. I got a 14 year onld daughter. If an 18 year old man was going after her, I'd think he was some sort of prevert.


C'mon man, as a 16 yr old sophomore, I had an 18 yr old senior girlfriend. As an 18 yr old high school senior, I had two different 16 yr sophomore old girlfriends. There are 13 year old freshmen and some seniors are as old as 19. These age groups are "mingling" everyday. Maybe not your 14 yr old daughter, but probably your next door neighbor's. 

That said, high school kids dating other high school kids can not be compared with douchebags dropping rocks from overpasses. Whichever kid/s dropped the rocks need to go down hard. A man is dead. On this I agree with you.


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## Greatest hunter in world?

TK81 said:


> C'mon man, as a 16 yr old sophomore, I had an 18 yr old senior girlfriend. As an 18 yr old high school senior, I had two different 16 yr sophomore old girlfriends. There are 13 year old freshmen and some seniors are as old as 19. These age groups are "mingling" everyday. Maybe not your 14 yr old daughter, but probably your next door neighbor's.
> 
> That said, high school kids dating other high school kids can not be compared with douchebags dropping rocks from overpasses. Whichever kid/s dropped the rocks need to go down hard. A man is dead. On this I agree with you.


16 and 18 is not too bad. I'd start raising an eyebrow at 15 and 18, and anything 14 and below with an 18 and over I consider downright creepy. Just my opinion. Anyway, that was an aside to this main conversation.


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## frenchriver1

Apparently the actions of the MI youths and the horrible outcome had no impact on the OH kids who did essentially the same shortly thereafter.


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## DecoySlayer

Jail 'em all. Be sure and put how they are treated by "BaBa" on live TV. That would maybe scare some sense into these animals.


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## mattawanhunter

Is there an article or link to a news story I am missing here, I am on my work laptop and normally don't use it at home so maybe the inf. isn't showing up?!



frenchriver1 said:


> How can any fool think that this is a fun outdoor activity? String them up from an overpass.





frenchriver1 said:


> How can any fool think that this is a fun outdoor activity? String them up from an overpass.


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