# Ausable flow?



## ausable_steelhead

> get ready for some water!


Decent little spike today. It would be better if we got a nice week long warmup, instead of this one day deal coming up.


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## Kelly Neuman

Here is explanation from Consumers on what happened in Dec. They even made a nice little graph to show how poor there operations were! I attached my reply to them at the bottom. Since the Dec 20th water levels have been running good and river is in great shape for fishing right now - just a little cold. Big melt down was just what the river needed!











Kelly, 

This is a follow-up note from our evaluation of the changes in flow at Foote that occurred on 12-20. 

I've also included a graph that Dave McIntosh prepared using the USGS data over the last several days for the Curtisville, Au Sable and Red Oak gauges overlaid on a plot so we can see the inter-relationship of all of the flows. 

The variation in flow on 12-17 was caused by having to use spill at Alcona for the passage of water due to the transmission system owner, ITC, performing maintenance on the transmission line. The spill tube gates at Alcona by their design, cannot be modulated, so they must be either fully opened or closed. The generating load at Alcona had to be reduced due to the transmission line outage, so we had to use the open and closing of the spill tubes to maintain flow and headwater level at the Plant during that time. The Operators at Alcona attempted to maintain an overall run-of-river average flow coming from Alcona during the ITC maintenance activity. The Operators at Foote did not try and mimic the flow oscillations at Alcona, knowing that the Alcona Operators were attempting to maintain run-of-river. The maintenance activity was completed by about 2200 and by about 0000 on 12-18 Alcona was back to normal operation. 

Moving ahead to 12-18 at about 1600, the flow at Alcona starts dropping and continues to drop until about 0630 on 12-19, Alcona is automatically responding to changes in pond level. At 0930 the Operator at Foote started to reduce flow in response to the reduced flow from Alcona. As flows begin to rise at Alcona, the Foote Operator adjusts flow and at about 1445 increases flow at Foote until it eventually levels off at about 1330 cfs. At about 1600 on 12-19 Alcona flows start to drop, turn and peak out slightly at 2145 and then start dropping to a low flow of 715 cfs by 1000 on 12-20. In response, the Foote operator started to initiate a flow reduction at Foote at about 0945 on 12-20 to follow the Alcona flow down until a flow of 800 cfs is reached at about 1230 hours. At about 1415, the Foote Operator starts to increase flow again. 

Like I mentioned in one of my previous notes, the Operators at Foote don't solely look at the flows out of one pond or a single gauge reading to set the flows at Foote, as they are also responding to the headwater level of the Foote pond. The change in flow that was made at Foote was also complicated by the flow having reduced to below that which we could operate two units, so while the Operator was reducing the overall flow, he was also adjusting the flow down on one unit to remove the unit from service while adjusting it up on another unit to carry the flow from the other unit. 

Making flow adjustments for Foote in real time during winter conditions on the Au Sable is complicated by the natural obstructions caused by River icing and the effect on the flow gauges of the ice retaining and releasing staged water unpredictably. We've also seen the overnight temperature drops impact not only the River flow, but also the flow contributed by the tributaries. The rise on the Red Oak gauge starting on 12-21shown on the plot as it appears to be getting iced in is one of the items that demonstrates where Operator judgement is necessary when adjusting flow and there is not a typical pattern to how long or how much the flow or the gauge will be affected, so they make their best estimate. 

If the Operator had not taken the action to reduce the flow at Foote, the falling headwater level at Foote would have continued to fall due to the reduced upstream flow from Alcona into the rest of the River. After the initial reduction was made, the Operator adjusted the flow back up on 12-20 as the Foote headwater level started to recover. 

We are always looking to optimize the adjustment of re-regulation flows at Foote to try to minimize the impact on the downstream habitat. We will also commit to making the flow changes as gradual as possible within the limits of the equipment while still meeting our license requirements. 

I'd again like to extend an invitation for you to observe the determination of flow adjustments at Foote by spending a day with the Operator and the Au Sable River Supervisor, Dale Nickell, at the dam. That will give you the opportunity to observe how the Operators are using the available tools to determine the flow changes needed to maintain compliance with the license. Let me know and I can make the arrangements. 

Thanks, Bill Schoenlein 


Bill,

For the last year many have told you how the drastic flow changes negatively affect the lower Au Sable and our steelhead fishing but you continue to just try and explain it away. Never once have we heard something like: Maybe we can try to help the problem and make a few changes. Shutting Foote down to a level below all of the upstream dams and below Red Oak will always be poor operations! Looking at the data that you gave me I do not see how operations should be as complicated as you state. What I see is lots of over compensating flow changes by the dam operations causing system to look more complicated than it is. During the time on the graph you attached, flows coming from the upper river (above Mio Dam) are very constant over each 24 hour period. I thought run-of-river operations was supposed to monitor the flows coming in and mimic the natural running river upstream. When you compare Red Oak to Mio & Alcona they have basically nothing in common and do not look like the same river. It appears to me that your operations are trying to keep ponds level at all cost by sacrificing flows in many sections of the river.

I was under the impression that Foote was operating as a re-regulation project (not run-of-river) because of the peaking dams (Cooke, Five Channels, Loud) upstream and there operations caused problems with run-of-river. Now you state peaking project have not been operating since Oct 21st so that major factor has not even been involved in operating Foote during winter periods. During peaking operations the bulk of flows are passed into ponds during a short period of time causing pond levels to fluctuate. Now on Dec 20th you stated that Foote had to be changed from 1400 to 802 cfs so that Foote Ponds level would stay constant. During peaking operations you have no problem raising and lowering pond levels but now you would rather trash the steelhead water for a day to keep Foote Pond constant! Shortly after this all flows come right back like they always do from a cold night. Flows could have been cut 10% to 20% at the dams on Dec 20th and all would have run just fine. The major flow changes were not from the river is was from your operations. 

Thank you for the invitation to see operations at Foote. If Consumers is interested in making some changes, that are long overdue, I would very much like to see your operations. If the intent is to persuade me that current operations are the only way then I have no interest. Myself and others will continue to inform you and look for someone to help if operations in the future are negatively effecting the Au Sable River.

Thank you, Kelly Neuman.


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## Ron Matthews

;quote; If the Operator had not taken the action to reduce the flow at Foote, the falling headwater level at Foote would have continued to fall due to the reduced upstream flow from Alcona into the rest of the River. After the initial reduction was made, the Operator adjusted the flow back up on 12-20 as the Foote headwater level started to recover.

Thanks, Bill Schoenlein [quote}


How can He justify Killing flow at Foote when Red Oak was constant as you stated? The Mcgraph shows this.
Falling headwater levels at Foote was not ice It was operations at Alcona,that caused falling levels In Foote pond.
This doesn't hold up? Screw the lower sections to maintain Foote headwater level when Red Oak did not justify the reduction, They reduced flow at Alcona But won't admit Thats what caused falling levels. Oh It must have ALL THE ICE That formed and held flows up, Ya!!

That Bill's something- He really try's to make it complicated, and I'll say it again horsepucky is what it really is. 
They wanted levels back as fast as possible to maintain peak operations period... cause That's what happend.


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## Ron Matthews

Create presentation-quality graph[SIZE=-2]Parameter 00060; DD 01[/SIZE]


This is how they Kill the fishing.
Consumers say's they can't do any better than this?
Just KILL the flow like this is the worst conditions.
The fish freak when water drops at rates like this.

I'm Very disappointed as every time the Ausable comes to Good conditions they do this In Less than ONE DAY?
But Bill Schonenlein at consumers say's it the best they can do.


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## Kelly Neuman

Ron you are 100% correct! I think it is a safe statement to make that Foote Dam is the only dam in Northern Michigan that is running below normal flow today. It is running the same as Alcona Dam which is three dams upstream. Both Mio and Alcona are running well above normal. This is called piss poor operations at Foote Dam! I just sent emails and we need 50 more people sending them today!


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## Slodrift

Streamside Custom Rod said:


> I just sent emails


Me too!


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## Adam Peterson

just sent my email!! I'm not even going to read the reply because it will be some stupid excuse AGAIN!!! What's mind blowing is the DNR has not steped in once yet!!! That's our tax dollars going to a good cause but our governer can take that money and fly over the country on her private jet!!! One thing that needs to happen is CHANGE!!!


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## Kelly Neuman

Telling these agencies your not happy with the way this is being handled can really help. The more people that tell them the more weight it will carry.


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## Ron Matthews

Ya, I took Time outta My Holiday to send 4 Emails, You got more address's I'll get it out:rant:


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## ausable_steelhead

Yeah, nice almost *2 foot* drop in gage height, but hey that's "run-of-river" right?.....look at the BM, it took 4 days for them to drop it a foot. The AS took 4 days to go down, then they just dropped it like a rock even more on the last day. Maybe we should all meet up one day, and bang on the door outside the dam. I'd like to see the look on they're faces when a mob of angry steelheaders is there to greet them:evilsmile!

*Au Sable*









*Big Manistee*


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## Ron Matthews

OOPs, Turned the lever to far we'll just turn it back up a little nobody will notice:lol:

See imo- The good operator that retired was using his own accretion values that He developed after many seasons of doing his job in an Outstanding manner That a new operator will have not figured out. I think imo- He's using a standerd set of values that may have been developed on the west side, As I believe the supervisor is from the Muskegon system- Croton specifically.. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Consumers has stated that the size of the impoundments on the Ausable is the main reason that the flows need to be adjusted more often than other systems and the Graphs do not show these factors so plainly.
The west side tribs have a Much higher influx of ground water that needs to be figured in the formulas and imo- I think that is what is compounding these factors on Ausable and You see much more of a dramatic result in flows.

Look at the flow today, It bottomed out and shot right back up. whatever formula there using is wrong Thats why Its So up&down every couple days.
Bill Schoenlein say's they have not been peaking upstream facilitys since what Oct. I think it say's In kelly's E?
So the ONLY thing it really could be is overcompensation of the formulas there using imo-

Help me out here cause I'm Really trying to understand How the flow Can drop so fast But yet come right back in what 16hrs??


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## Slodrift

Ron Matthews said:


> Help me out here cause I'm Really trying to understand How the flow Can drop so fast But yet come right back in what 16hrs??


I sent E-mails again today asking the same Damn thing!:rant:


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## Kelly Neuman

I asked for when peaking dams were shut off and graphs to show pond levels (those are not posted like river levels). There are gauges on back side of dams to show this. They told peaking dams have not been run since Oct 21st but they did not give me pond graphs. I found this very interesting because this is what there explanation is based from but they will not show it to us.


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## Slodrift

That's it, I'm not paying my power bill this month.... :cheeky-sm

Like I said last year... They think we are a bunch of backwoods fisherman who can be baffled with big words and lame excuses.


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## Ron Matthews

Ok, We want pond Height Numbers- if that's what there not showing Thats what we Need to SEE.

Why can't we get these numbers? how is this figured into the "data" or is it just maintained at a certain level constantly? I think David McIntosh had said it was basically a big bathtub They can't get too high or low. Where are these values and how do the numbers from Cooke affect the formula? 

Damn I got more e-mails to send out


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## ausable_steelhead

If that's their exscuse, how come it's only been ran this way since about 2004 or so? Weather hasn't changed much since then, river doesn't flow any different, ***? See, there's a few reasons the Au Sable went from easily competing with any other top Michigan steelhead river to being nothing like it was. Cormorants have ate the **** out of the plants since the early 2000's. Consumers has ran the river like this since about 2004, the last year the river fished really, really solid. So the few fish we do get up the river, get put down and off the bite from inconsistent river conditions. 

Think about it, one minute the river is running at 1300 for a week, the fish get acclimated, comfortable, and are happy. All of a sudden, the rivers at 800. Now those same fish are like ***! The waters dropped two feet over they're damn heads. Now they're in less water, less flow, ***! Then, they crank it back upto 1000 the same day. That kind of thing, ESPECIALLY in the winter, shuts all but the most active fish right down. This doesn't seem to happen much, if at all on our other rivers. Maybe this is a bigger part of the "decline" of this river's fishery then we thought? The runs _are_ down, but maybe we get more fish then we think, but do to very, very poor flow maintenance, they don't bite like they should.


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## Ron Matthews

I can tell you that The river used have outstanding fishing at x-mas thru january every yr. alway's got good numbers in to stage when the snow would get deep. The flows As far back as i can remember would kinda get set in there way at this time of yr. The cold temps kept the snow frozen and then the flows would become Very stable until we got Into Feb. 

I remember fishing the same pods of fish for months, They never moved until the flows fluctuated. They would Run when the flow increased any dramatic amount. Winter was Very predictable as far as finding fish.

Anymore you'll have to work at consumers to Know what the river is going to do Tomorrow, You can't really "predict" ***** anymore!! 

That River should Be stacked up with fish, But with inconsistant flows They're not easy to find.. 
And even tougher to get bit...



04 was awesome


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## Kelly Neuman

We need to keep telling those that oversee Consumers operations how it has negatively effected the river and look for other groups that can put pressure on them to change. 

Ron your right about stable flows in the winter. I remember in mid 90's how river used to freeze down near town all the time. I remember rowing back to Whirlpool one time from the narrows because of ice and no motor in those days. With all of the drastic flow changes now no need to worry about river freezing.

Jon I like your idea and it has been discussed! Take out the words "bang on" and replace them with "kicking down" and you got it.


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## ausable_steelhead

> Jon I like your idea and it has been discussed! Take out the words "bang on" and replace them with "kicking down" and you got it.


Hey, whatever works man!

I've been fishing the A since 1992, when I started steelhead/salmon fishing. I was younger and went when my Dad let me. I had some issues in the late 90's when I didn't fish much. I got my **** together in about 2002, and started hitting the river ALOT and on my own. Early 2003 is when I started getting it down and figuring things out. I remember good fishing in 2003, 2004, sporadic in 2005(except spring, it was HOT), slow in 2006, slow in 2007(Dec was good), good in 2008. But I also remember being on the river with my Dad, and seeing the spillway absolutely STACKED with fish in the spring, you couldn't even see the bottom(and this was before the mussels). I remember my Dad's fall trips there, old trips out on the pierheads, fishing in the rocks along the mouth, and I remember lots of steelhead being caught. Some days, especially spring, the pier would have fish literally laying all over it.

I think with whats going on with the cormorant harrassment program, stocking the smolts downriver(as long as they acclimate the river long enough), and our growing pressure on Consumers, the Au Sable river could very well get back to badass in the next 5 years easy. I think if we get more people involved, I've already told some others about it, we can force some kind of NECESSARY change on Consumers. Money should NEVER take precedent over a Natural Resource. Lets do it man, lets make **** happen! I have a fire and passion for this river like no other, so I'm up for whatever it takes.


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## Kelly Neuman

*More lame replies from Consumers and my reply is at the bottom:
*

Kelly, we'd be interested in you coming to the Foote dam in person and offering any comments on the operation, or during setting or adjustment of flows as the Operator is evaluating the River conditions and making changes. We are genuinely interested in hearing any suggestions you might have on the operation that can benefit the habitat below Foote. It's not our intention to explain away changes in flow, and it can only help both parties if you observe how the changes are made based on real-time data and offer your suggestions. If we can constructively work together to adjust the operation within the limits of the current license and improve the habitat below Foote, everyone benefits. 
Let me know about arrangements, I'd suggest spending the morning through lunchtime to see how changes are made. Thanks, Bill Schoenlein

Bill, 

Emailing back to make sure Im clear. Im supposed to come to Foote Dam on a given day to watch a couple of flow changes and the operator is going to listen to my suggestions and make positive changes in the operations. I think we both know that your point here is to make a nice sounding email. Many came to meeting last year in Oscoda and told you of the problems. Every point we brought up was met with 100% opposition and justification by Consumers. Now youre going to state you want to constructively work together by given me a little show at the dam. There is no other way to put it  that is bull **** and an insult! Myself and other have repeatedly told you how well Foote Dam was operator in the winter months with regard to the steelhead fishing until just the last few years. Then a major change in your operations happened causing negative problems to our steelhead fishery. This has totally been left out about how well Foote was run in the winter months for years and now you are not even willing to state that it ever happened or could happen this way again. Only justifications for the current poor operations. Now you repeatedly state your limited by a license agreement and equipment to the changes you can make in your operations when in fact no one had a complain for many years with your winter operations WITH THE SAME LICENSE AGREEMENT AND EQUIPMENT! Im all for constructively working together to improve the lower Au Sable River. Youre the one who has shown no interest. 

Thank You, Kelly Neuman


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## Ron Matthews

How hard is it. They get a friendly request {even if it's from Kelly]
and still can't get it done..

Man,It's like the whole thing has come apart up there. I can't believe they haven't plowed, That's Just Rude!


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## Kelly Neuman

I just emailed and asked status of snow plowing for that parking lot. Also asked if they can not get it done if i can pay someone to plow it.


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## stelmon

Yikes, they must be having a drought up there and it must be like 150 deg up there...holy smoke!!










I don't understand consumers. How can they run tippy pretty stable but can't run the foote at all....wow


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## Ron Matthews

i was just on my way back to post that- Good lookin out!!

What the Hell, This IS UNBELIEVABLE..

Now There just putting in your face:rant: WHEN IS THIS MEETING, WHEN IS DNR GOING TO DO SOMETHING!!


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## Kelly Neuman

I would think water would even drop a lot lower than currently at Foote. They ran the water way to high yesterday evening and all last night compared to the rest of the system. To make it worst they did that with extreme cold weather on its way. These are not mistakes here they are just following there own plan. Consumers has got a good thing going because overseeing agencies HAVE NO BACKBONE! As for you guys questions I do not have those answers and I think you know who to ask. Hopefully some help is coming soon.


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## Ron Matthews

Ron thanks for trying to help me out. I normally would not be trying to post as I would rather be fishing but the situation has gotten to the point where it is destroying my favorite pastime. What I was trying to post is that I was wondering if anyone was interested in forming an organization to deal with all the different issues the old girl faces flying rats, consumers ,access in the winters river cleanups all the problems we are aware of. A few years back we had some major issues with deer hunting around the Shiawassee State game area and refuge, private land owners with some heavy political clout were trying to keep deer hunters out of these public lands as to create there own refuge claiming deer hunters were disturbing the duck hunting. Thus the Shiawassee Flats Advisory Council was formed and with the help of a fellow named Doug Reeves from the DNR, MUCC attorneys and Saginaw Field and stream club we were able to stop the nonsense and accomplish many other things, we bought gravel for parking lots paid to grade roads started the states first youth and handicap hunts on public lands all by joining together as one voice and only dealing with the flats. I'm not looking to run such an organization my candle been burning along time but would help in any way I can to get this done. I would hope one of the local fella's such as Kelly or Slo-drift or possibly yourself could look into it. I believe this is the easiest way to deal with these problems and be sure they don't reoccur every year as they will know we would not be going away. You could start with a meeting of a few and for a small fee give bumper stickers out to members that would be interested in joining and the recruitment could be done by those folks all through the season hell just the guys from Owosso form a formable group. But I really think this thing would snowball and could be fun I've seen the same folks fishing for the past 39 years and think they would be excited to belong. For along time we had it good, that changed big time in the last few years and if we want it back were going to have to do it ourselves. You can post this if you would like I'm really hope there's enough interest to get it started and I think it will grow on it's own. Thanks for your help and I look forward to meeting you on the river if I haven't already or hopefully the first meeting.


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## Ron Matthews

This has become very serious.
We need an army
ANYONE That want's to help e-mail me [email protected] PM me, Hit My profile what ever JUST GET INVOLVED.


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## ausable_steelhead

HOLY **** *654cfs*!!?? Damn man, there's like no river flowing. The lower is gonna probably lock up if this stays.


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## Ron Matthews

I'm with kelly, I think Mr. Tom Burh would welcome all of us to join his orginazation. I'd have to agree, cause then your hooked up with the right people. E-mails are going nowhere and will continue as such.
I said it before a few pages back It Will Have to Go to Litigation. only way you'll make them do anything...


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## Adam Peterson

Two words!! Holy ****!!! I told ya jon!! Over a ****ing 800 cfs drop in under 12 hours!! I would bet there is some gravel showing now!! I really don't even know what to say anymore! Maybe a stick of TNT would help the cause!!


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## Adam Peterson

It's only 248 below it's all time low! I remember someone saying they have never seen it below 700! Well it's below that now my friend!


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## Slodrift

Had a feeling they were going to do that.

Kelly is right the AuSable Big Water Preservation Association is an organization that does a lot for the AuSable River and I recommend checking it out.


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## Adam Peterson

Already a member of it!


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## Fishndude

To be fair, when it gets very cold, like it is now, ice forms, and NATURALLY locks up water, so not as much water flows down rivers. Ice forms, which causes resistance to flow, and also freezes some of the water which would otherwise be flowing down the river. So in very cold spells of weather, I can see very low flows being reasonable. But the SUDDEN drops in flow make no sense, and are not natural. 

648 cfs is amazingly low on the Ausable. You could just walk around the pick the fish up, instead of having to fish for them.


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## Kelly Neuman

That is an excellent point! All the rivers will drop when sub zero weather sets in. I was told last year + or - 20% flow changes were considered normal during very cold weather periods and when river is icing. You look at the Muskegon and Manistee and that number is very normal for what happens. At Foote Dam on the Au Sable it went for 1500 cfs to 650 cfs. That is close to a 60% drop in the water! If all the water really was frozen up then water should not come back until warmer temps come. Well today is the coldest day yet and water is already coming back up.


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## stelmon

Don't look at the flows now. Just above 500. If any fish were spawning there beds are probably all dried up now:yikes:


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## Slodrift

I'm heading that way now, I have to see what the river looks like right now, I'll take some pics.


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## Ron Matthews

That's called a creek


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## ausable_steelhead

> That's called a creek


Yup, the eastside now has the Thunder Bay, Ocqueoc, Rifle, Tawas, East Branch, and the Little Au Sable, all small to medium rivers:irked:.


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## Adam Peterson

Nice, 532 let's see if they can get it down to 342 or so it's almost been a 1000cfs in 2 days!! Hell why don't they just shut down flows completly and then they will be able to have a good pool and peak operation tomorrow! Hopefully you got some nice pics slodrift I can not wait to see them!!


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## ausable_steelhead

> Hopefully you got some nice pics slodrift* I can not wait to see them!!*


I cannot wait to fish in it Sat/Sun. I'll just look for the dorsal and tops of the tail fins.


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## Slodrift

Well as you might have guessed the river is looking pretty sad, yes basically it is a creek right now, it's only about 20 yards wide at the first curve from the Dam. The launches are getting iced in and there is a ton of ice and slush floating down river, I would say impossible to fish from a boat right now and with the slow water icing over fast, hard to fish from shore also. The pipe running from the gauge house is only a foot under water and the first set of bridge pilings with the gauge stick on them is out of the water by 2 feet.(Rea Rd) I took pics and will get them on here later, when they bring the water back up it's going to bust a lot of shore ice loose so it's going to be trashed as far as fishing for a while.


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## ausable_steelhead

So there's what, half a wheel going? I'm still gonna try and fish'er this weekend, shelf ice _will be a bitch!_


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## Fishndude

WHOA, that is an amazing drop in flow, and I absolutely do not believe it is solely due to the extremely cold weather we are having. They MUST be pooling water to run the dam harder once they have enough pooled, and thus producing more electricity when they open er up. That is just horrible for the bugs and stuff that live in the river year round. I honestly don't worry too much about the Steelhead surviving, because they will do fine - they will find deep enough water to hang out in, and will just wait it out. And since there aren't hardly any Alewives for Kings to eat, the exposed gravel (which will kill any fertilized King eggs which are present) won't really hurt the Salmon returns significantly. But the other stuff - crayfish, caddis larvae, hellgramites, etc., are just going to be destroyed by this. If only this action would wipe out the Mussels. :tdo12:

I am in for a lobbying effort to try to get this crap stopped. It is utterly ridiculous. If this was happening where Trout were present year-round (like they used to be below Foote dam, until about 8-10 years ago), TU would jump into the fray. 

Personally, I can even live with this flow making it impossible to boat on the river, because it is too cold for me to boat it right now, anyhow. BUT Kelly makes his living guiding, and there used to be quite a few guys who guided the Ausable all through Winter. The fish will bite when the water comes back up, but this is simply mismanagement of a valuable resource, and something has to be done about it. Emails going out.


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## Ron Matthews

Fishndude said:


> WHOA, that is an amazing drop in flow, and I absolutely do not believe it is solely due to the extremely cold weather we are having. They MUST be pooling water to run the dam harder once they have enough pooled, and thus producing more electricity when they open er up. That is just horrible for the bugs and stuff that live in the river year round. :quote:
> 
> What bugs? there dead A good % anyway- caddis, rock worms, mayfly's. Bugs Tend to concentrate in shallow water where the oxegen is higher and are more influenced by sunlight. Gravel shoals that were exposed are now depleted of life, The sand bars don't matter, Nothing lives there anyways.
> 
> I'd bet I could walk across The "BOYSCOUT" In Hip waders.Hell- I Know I could!!


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## Slodrift

I'm trying to up load the pics from yesterday but it tells me they exceed file size limit, what does that mean? Are the pics to big or do I have too many in my album?

Ron, you could walk across the river in many places right now, some places you would only need knee boot's........


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## Ron Matthews

Man

I just don't Know what to say, But that bug % just got bigger.....

edit- Ya I do, I'll predict????? 1300cfm On ???Tuesday the 20th 
well +/- a little cause you never know, But I'm seeing the pattern 
Temps are going to climb to mid 20's for you guy's they'll peak that beotch! You'll see The patten..

edit-Ice for the excuse, power is the product.

edit-Nice River temp this morn, 0.1 c
can you say Anchor Ice, cause that's the deal.

edit-It's been said here that pond levels are the only concern, Nothing else Matters?? I'd have to agree.


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## Slodrift

Still can't get pics to upload so if you want to PM me your E-mail address I'll send them your way


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## Kelly Neuman

Shawn, Here are some of your pics you sent me this morning of Au Sable on Jan 15th.


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## Kelly Neuman

Here are some more!


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## Ron Matthews

Thanks, But damn that hurts:sad:


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## cheweyscharters

I used to fish there all the time but havent in the past few years because of this garbage. i've even got a free family place in tawas to stay anytime i want, but usally opt to go to the west side of the state to spend even more money on hotels,restaurants,etc. because of the piss poor experiences the last few times i've been to the ausable.I mean how do they expect the guys like kelly neuman to even attempt to make a living on this resource with this mismanagement of our resources going on. which by the way kelley is an excellent guide to work with. I've had a trip booked with him for a year and a half that we keep delaying becase of poor returns. MY KUDOS GOES OUT TO HIM FOR THIS BECAUSE MOST GUIDES WOULD TAKE ME FOR THE (BOAT RIDE) ANYWAY.but this is ridiculous.
many thanks will have to go out to becky humphries and any other moron at consumers,forest service,fun governer granholm,etc.etc.etc.
way to destroy` a beautiful resource


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## Slodrift

Thanks for putting them up, I'm just too computer illiterate I guess:lol:

Ron, Your right that hurts,you can walk without getting your feet wet in places you would usually be in water over your knees, lots of exposed gravel eveywhere.


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## Kelly Neuman

New regional coordinator keeps telling me how he will stand up for what is right, really he states if data shows in the future he will stand up for us, (no backbone approach the way I see it) on the Au Sable River. If you do not like the way the current problem is being handled then tell him so. 



Kurt R. Newman, Ph.D.
Lake Huron Basin Coordinator
Fisheries Division
Michigan Department of Natural Resources P.O. Box 30446 Lansing, MI 48909 office (517)241-3623
FAX (517)373-0381
[email protected]


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## Ron Matthews

Has HE seen These Pic's? I can't print what i feel...


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## stelmon

I can't believe what I am reading from the DNR making excuses up for consumers. How could they say anything when the au sable is fluctuating by the day, when tippy barely has budge and it's receiving the same conditions. 

Emails being sent...


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## Ron Matthews

It's already DOUBLED today alone since this morningLike 1036cfm right now, When I checked this morning at 5am it was 700ish All from the low of 536ish yesterday.


CLICK ON KELLYS LINK TO THAT DIRwhatthefhedoesisfnbeyondme And send something short & nasty. always turned me on!!


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## Fishndude

Yeah, I just checked and it is running at 1090 cfs. Last night the temps @ my house (Detroit area) was -13*. I think it was actually warmer in Oscoda, but not enough warmer for the flow to increase that much. What a crock. 
I seriously can remember a couple times, long ago, when the entire river froze. I am talking from the bottom of the rail at the dam to the mouth was frozen over, without a single opening in the ice, that I could find. But I think the last time was also the last winter that all of the Great Lakes froze over, too - which happens about every 20 years or so. 

Chewey: You should call Kelly to get something lined up, for after the worst of winter weather breaks. There were more Steelhead in the river last Fall than there have been for a few years. He knows where to find them.


----------



## 4lbtest

So I called MUCC and spoke with someone there and walked them through getting to this Forum and posts. They apologised and said they had no idea, but would view the posts advise the NRC and make a determination as to what extent they would get involved. I requested a flollow up call on Monday, I will advise what I hear.


----------



## Ron Matthews

4lbtest said:


> So I called MUCC and spoke with someone there and walked them through getting to this Forum and posts. They apologised and said they had no idea, but would view the posts advise the NRC and make a determination as to what extent they would get involved. I requested a flollow up call on Monday, I will advise what I hear.


Nice to have you onboard.
Thank you for your time and intrest..


----------



## 4lbtest

Dan, Thanks for your email. I was actually just alerted to this issue not minutes before by *Aaron Mastro*[/COLOR]-- but this is the first time that it has been put on MUCC's radar as far as I know. Aaron pointed me to the Michigan-Sportsmen's forum for the discussion and I have shared that with our policy and communications staff members. 

Can you tell me who at the DNR and Consumers you or others have contacted already or have responses from? We are going to follow up with our contacts and see what we can find out. 

Thanks,
Amy Spray


----------



## 4lbtest

I forgot to include this
Amy Spray [[email protected]]

Aaron


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## 4lbtest

I sent the Forum and brief summary to the News/Free preess outdoor writer, Let's get the news out to everyone, the more voices and support the better chance we have


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## Adam Peterson

im sure they produced some power today!! those pics are just crazy!! nice work 4lbtest!


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## stelmon

No Problem, Aaron. Hopefully something good will come of this quickly. I just sent some emails out to Amy about this forum, and the emails Kelly (w/ his permission) has had with consumers and the DNR.


----------



## cheweyscharters

I just got off the phone with Eric Sharp from the detroit free press. he told me he's been in florida for the last 2 weeks,and will be home tuesday. said that now he's aware of the problem (from these posts on MSF)and will be looking into it directly. It was great and very suprising that he took the time out of his vacation to call me and voice his concerns. I can only hope this will bring us concerned anglers some coverage in the media. keep your fingers crossed for the


----------



## Kelly Neuman

It is very nice to hear how many people truly care about the lower Au Sable River!! Thank you very much for all that are helping with this issue and getting more people involved. If any one wants more information just let me know.


----------



## Adam Peterson

I just sent a 2000 word email to kurt Kruger and gave him examples about how this kind operations has effected other rivers! I gave him some nice info! Well see if he replys!


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## ausable_steelhead

I've emailed MUCC twice, and have not got a reply back. Hopefully we can get some things fixed on the river. I'm gonna try and go tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## Ron Matthews

ausable_steelhead said:


> I'm gonna try and go tomorrow afternoon.


If it's Truth you Seek, You May Not Like what you find!!


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## Ron Matthews

How many day's and nights You guy's think I'd have to live in my boat below foote before you could get every major tv station to report some Freak Is protesting flows on the lower Ausable and has taken refuge in a 16'er that Is anchored in the middle of the river and will NOT leave?

I'll need to get some supplies-


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## Slodrift

I thought about staging some kind of protest myself, thought about chaining myself to the gate:lol: but i don't know what kind of coverage you'd get from the local news. I have been going round and round with Editor of the Oscoda Press, she doesn't think Consumers is doing anything wrong and although she claims to be a Steelheader herself doesn't believe that flows affect the bite.:banghead3


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## Ron Matthews

Slodrift said:


> , she doesn't think Consumers is doing anything wrong and although she claims to be a Steelheader herself doesn't believe that flows affect the bite.:banghead3


she proly only Knows 5 sq.yrds. Of steelhead water at the bottom of the stairs, I wouldn't expect her to KNOW!! flow is alway's good on 45* day's... she must be a dental assistant that likes the long leader on her day's off......

I Know 100's of miles of steelhead water, And I'd beg to Differ


----------



## Slodrift

A Blonde Dental Assistant.

She talks like a Biologist, blames everything on the lack of bait fish and reduction in stocking and doesn't believe that Cormorants play that big of role in declining numbers.

She says the way we are stocking now isn't allowing the plants to acclimate to the river and our fish end up elsewhere.


----------



## Kelly Neuman

For our local media to not cover this issue and stating that Consumers is not doing anything wrong is extremely poor reporting! So editor of the Oscoda County Press supports Consumers operation on Jan 15th to basically shut off the river? Even our DNR stated that was wrong!! That editor did not even state the proper license at Foote in responses to your last letter Shawn. Lawyer stated when a natural resource is being damaged and it could be run a different way there is legal standing. Now even the DNR is looking at some different options for Foote Dam. The closest gauge to Foote Dam that anyone can look at outside of Consumers is Alcona Dam (roughly 40 miles apart) and Foote is not even being operated off of that guage. It is run off of the pond level data from Loud, Cooke and Foote Pond. The gauges are on the backside of dams and no one has access to this real time data except Consumers. I have asked Consumers for graphs and I get no reply. I was told DNR has requested this data. Without this data there is no way to justify current operations! My point is: For a newspaper to not look into this issue and to just support Consumers is extremely poor reporting and leaves many with one big question. What is the editors relationship to Consumers Energy?

For someone to state there is no bait fish in the lake but we need more fish stocked shows this person has no idea of fish management. 

Maybe some real news media like 9/10 news or newspaper in Traverse City. The Traverse City paper has covered many issues on the upper Au Sable in the past.


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## Ron Matthews

Slodrift said:


> A Blonde Dental Assistant.
> 
> She talks like a Biologist, blames everything on the lack of bait fish and reduction in stocking and doesn't believe that Cormorants play that big of role in declining numbers.
> 
> She says the way we are stocking now isn't allowing the plants to acclimate to the river and our fish end up elsewhere.


Wow she must have went to the meeting last winter and Bought every word of it, Hook Line and sinker some might say.
When all you have to go off of is data from dnr they'll try to get you to bite also.
I know Kelly has seen HUGE schools of emeralds along the shoreline of Huron when he's fishing for brown trout, Dnr will tell you that the trawls in lk Huron have shown a Dramatic Rise in the number of rainbow smelt that they have collected. The perch seem to be on the rise I've seen reported. The damn walleye's are part of the problem w/smolts NOT making it. I was there in oscoda fishing this past spring off the pier and the amount of giant Lake Trout that were in the shallows Gorging on smolts
made me sick, There wasn't a damn thing I could do about it as I had to let them all go w/season being closed and all, Guess what the pattern of lure was? YUP- rainbow trout.
I talked with people that told me that the walleye he got the night before had 3 smolts inside of a 7# fish. wonder what a 15 laker can DO?

DUDE I even Know of a 33# king caught in 10' of water on a south troll from the north about 1000 yrds. off the N pier. Michigan stinger spoon hung from leadcore out of a 14'er. 

See I don't believe everything someone smarter than me has to say cause if they were a serious steelheader on the east side, I would have heard/seen/met them over the yrs. NOT All, But Most....

Let me just say I make it a point to meet fishin girls bro, It's my favorite animal to chase.. 
Just don't tell Lisa-


----------



## Ron Matthews

Streamside Custom Rod said:


> For someone to state there is no bait fish in the lake but we need more fish stocked shows this person has no idea of fish management.
> 
> 
> 
> That's just the blonde Bro, Don't Hold that against her:lol:
> 
> 
> My Mission on monday morning Is to find These "pond" charts, Cause I GOTTA HAVE IT... I have No way to predict good fishing when I have to use Data that's not even any good, As In The Gauge thats NOT EVEN IN THE WATER!
> How can they tell me This is EVEN data at all, It's a Guess! That's All it is!!
> The only gauge Here that matters IS the Gauge On the back of FOOTE.
Click to expand...


----------



## Kelly Neuman

The Oscoda Press editor just soaked up every word from that biologist who just loved listening to himself talk at last years meeting! You guys know who I'm talking about - the dude that thought he was pretty cool! That is the same guy who had no data on Au Sable River steelhead, had not sampled one, or even been to the river to look at one. 

Lake Trout are not stocked like steelhead and spawn much differently. The young ones do not get hit nearly as bad by Cormorants as the steelhead do. They are stocked and spawn mostly on reefs and at least have a chance to escape from the nasty black birds. There is tons of food for them in Lake Huron with the goby being one of there main sources. Those biologist that spoke in Oscoada left out the part that should have been studied. What is in the stomach's of fish in Lake Huron? Lots of trout and salmon looked very health and are finding plenty eat in 2008. Those Lakers are great fun in the shallows in the spring & fall and will just smash a big rainbow streamer stripped in on sink tip fly line. Open season on spring Cormorants and Lake Tout - now that would be a fun cast and blast in Oscoda!


----------



## Ron Matthews

Ye-HA Dude!!

Hell I'd Buy me one a them fancy pump 12 fer that!!


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## Kelly Neuman

Mio and Alcona Dam are set to run automatically off of the ponds levels behind them. Here is the problem: Foote is manually run and in the winter if the amount of water that comes thru Foote Dam each day is +/- 20% ( or even a little more/less some days) to what is coming thru Alcona some will say all is fine. When you think about that, you will see how bad operations could really be on given day or what you get is what is happeing right now! That is a bull **** way of running Foote. The intent of the license agreement at Foote was to simulate, as best as possible, the natural river above the dams and that was stated in Stuber email from US Forest Service. Consumers is not doing this at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is no guess work here by Consumers there following there plan perfectly and I sure hope someone steps in soon.


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## Ron Matthews

Deceive, Manipulate, and Fabricate is what Consumers does best!!


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## ausable_steelhead

Oh, I just sent Stuber an email on this, and I let it out:

Sir, why are you guys letting consumers energy run the show? A meeting on a Tuesday at 7pm, that's a joke right? I live in Charlevoix, but fished the Au Sable every single week up until I moved last summer. How the hell can I be there at that time? I would think that you guys and the DNR, being 2 resource agencies, would have the say in when the meeting would be. Do you guys not see? This is what consumers did last fall, held a very inconvenient meeting, that way, the numbers of people showing, would be minimal, just like this year will be. Doesn't anybody actually care about the river, or is consumers greed more important? That's what it boils down too, we all know it, some just don't want to admit it. WOW, this is just ridiculous man.....


----------



## Kelly Neuman

The US Forest Service has been completely unwilling to comment on this issue. Stuber did sent email about meeting and calling for change this month. But has not replied to a single email of mine. Stuber is one of the great flip-flopper of the resource agencies. Who knows were he stands right now - most likely where ever someone above him told him to stand! Last year when this issue first came out he told me what I great job I was doing and Consumers was completely wrong. Then Feb 15th 2008 he sent this:

Kelly - Consumers Energy went over their Au Sable River operations history with agency representatives and the Michigan Hydro Re-licensing Coalition at a recent meeting last week. At first I was skeptical of what was going on but after hearing the explanation of what the ice is doing to the river flows it did make sense.

 Hopefully, they will continue to address the concerns about flow fluctuations and do their best to mimic run-of-the-river at Foote (based on outflow at Alcona Project puls accretion from tributaries and groundwater, adjusted for time-of-travel between Alcona and Foote). Again, I do not believe they have any ulterior motive in not doing this.
Bob Stuber
Fisheries Biologist, Huron-Manistee National Forests U.S. Forest Service


This email sure does not sound like email he sent out this Jan stating problem and meeting AND THE PROBLEM HAS NOT CHANGED! If he would have had a back bone last year and stood up to Consumers maybe this year problem would not have been so bad.


----------



## Ron Matthews

Hopefully, they will continue to address the concerns about flow fluctuations and do their best to mimic run-of-the-river at Foote (based on outflow at Alcona Project puls accretion from tributaries and groundwater, adjusted for time-of-travel between Alcona and Foote).


> [/COLOR]
> :lol:


----------



## Ron Matthews

Ron Matthews said:


> Hopefully, they will continue to address the concerns about flow fluctuations and do their best to mimic run-of-the-river at Foote (based on outflow at Alcona Project puls accretion from tributaries and groundwater, adjusted for time-of-travel between Alcona and Foote).
> 
> 
> 
> :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully, BOB.
> HOPEFULLY!!
Click to expand...


----------



## wyldkat49766

wyldkat49766 said:


> I wonder if someone couldn't draft something up for us to sign for those of us that cant make it?



Can someone do this? And someone that is going to that meeting give it to them to show that there is more support for this but some of us just cannot make that meeting?


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## Kelly Neuman

Anyone that can not make it to meeting that has an opinion on the issue if you put it all down in a letter I will make sure it goes to the correct people. You can either mail or email it to me and my contact info is on my web site which is listed below.


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## Ron Matthews

I can't believe what I'm seeing on the flow charts.
Is that Re-Regulated constant flow?
Sure looks like it too me, Hmm- imagine that...


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## Kelly Neuman

There are piles of ice everywhere from Red Oak to Mio Pond and from Mio Dam to Alcona pond. Over half of the waters below Mio are frozen. Right now temps are below zero. Water levels are fine at all of dams on the system. These are the conditions that Consumers and DNR have blamed poor dam operations on in the past. The problems we have seen have nothing to do with ice in river! Dams can be operated in manner that are good for the river and the fishing just fine when Consumers wants to or someone makes them.


----------



## ausable_steelhead

> Dams can be operated in manner that are good for the river and the fishing just fine when Consumers wants to or someone makes them.


EXACTLY!!!!!!!! And it's sad it has to come to that.


----------



## weekendredneck

I haven't read through all the posting to this thread, but I fish below Mio quite a bit during the summer and below Foote a hand full of times in the fall and spring. It's hard for me to make it to any meetings during the week, but it there is a letter I can write or something I can sign I will. Anyway I can support?


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## stelmon

Is anyone up there taking pictures of what were seeing and keeping track of the flows on the whole river to show the DNR what idiots consumers are? 

Picture proof always helps...


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## Kelly Neuman

Yes I have taken plenty of pictures of river conditions over the last two winters. It has had no effect on Consumers. Seems like river has been much more stable since article came out in Free Press. Hopefully it continues!


----------



## Fishndude

I fished below Foote yesterday, and the water was LOW, despite the flow data reflecting that it is at 1300 cfs. I could see rings of ice around metal poles that hold up the retaining wall below the dam, with the highest ice rings being close to 18" higher than the current water level. Not sure when the water was that much higher, but it was after the last thaw. I did not go anywhere other than the dam, and did not see anyone else fishing, although there was plenty of beaten down snow. I parked out by the road and walked in - I could have run my truck through the snow, but figured why bother? 
I did drive into Oscoda, and saw LOTS of slush and ice coming down, when I crossed the River Road bridge. Too much slush for fishing the lower river, and I wouldn't fun a boat in it, either - although Lynn had has lauch plowed.


----------



## DryflyII

Would like to help some how. Living in Ohio it would be difficult for me to make meetings. I realy do care about the AuSable and would be willing to wright letters or sign whatever to help. Please let me know what I can do.


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## Ron Matthews

Everyone call In sick Today?
What's up with That!!
Can It be?
Isit
Is That Constant Flow what I'm seeing


----------



## stelmon

naw, consumers has it rigged

Looking good for fishing


----------



## Ron Matthews

Ron Matthews said:


> Hopefully, they will continue to address the concerns about flow fluctuations
> 
> 
> 
> But a FEW e-Mails Never hurt either


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## Kelly Neuman

Dam operations of late do seem to be handled pretty good and flows at Foote have been very consistent. As to what changed I really do not know but it does show system can be run much different than the past if Consumers wants to! Right now there is ton of ice in the system and January's temp have been way below normal with no thaw this month. Hopefully these operations continue and all is handled well when things start to melt. Those that have concerns should come to meeting in Oscoda Feb 10th and express there views.


----------



## Ron Matthews

I'm kinda looking foward to the tour at Foote Dam on the 10th at 3:00 also, It'll be intresting to say the least?
Where are people going to meet after the tour and before the meeting at 7pm?

I know they said to meet at Foote for the show, Maybe they'll plow by then you think??


----------



## Slodrift

They have been plowing to the gate for Consumers employee's and have a big pile of snow blocking the drive to the lot right now. They could at least push the snow along the fence so people could get in the lot, almost looks like they trying to block the drive, the lot at the launch (Rea Rd) is in bad shape also.


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## Ron Matthews

figures


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## Kelly Neuman

No point in complaining right now about water levels below Foote Dam. Of late water has been run just fine for winter fishing. I poured a 80lb bag of salt on the Rea Rd boat landing today and it is greatly improved. It is time to steelhead fish now! Put four in the net today and here are a couple pics.


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## ausable_steelhead

Nice fish Kelly, I figured you'd find some. Take away that nasty wind, and yesterday would have been great(it was). I thought the river was at a good winter level, and the upper was very fishable.


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## Ron Matthews

Good lookin fish bro, Glad the water is in Good shape finally..
Good Flows = Good fishing
Nice Job Man....


----------



## CAPT HEAVY

Great Pics Kelly! Look like nice healthy fish.


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## Kelly Neuman

Jeff we need some charter boat capt at Oscoda meeting Feb 10th. Hope you can make it!


----------



## stelmon

Nice fish! Wish we could have found some but like jon said, the wind was a pain.

Just recieved MUCC's email and below foote was in the article. 

Consumers Energy Announces Public meeting on Au Sable flow issues
In recent weeks MUCC has been hearing from a growing list of concerned anglers, guides and residents of the Au Sable River country about the operation of the Foote Dam and its suspected impact on the steelhead, salmon, and trout fishery.

While MUCC initiated discussions with DNR and DEQ officials about the issue, the federally licensed operator of the dam, Consumers Energy, has since scheduled a public meeting in Oscoda on Tuesday, February 10 to hear from the public and address concerns. A visit to the Foote Dams powerhouse has also been arranged earlier in the afternoon.

The primary focus of the meeting will be to discuss what can be done to address the operating concerns and maintain compliance, with a specific focus on the following:
(1) what are the license requirements regarding operations for the six dams
(2) a discussion of run-of-river, peaking and re-regulation
(3) a brief discussion of the available data
(4) a discussion of potential alternatives.

The meeting will take place on Tuesday, February 10 beginning at 7:00 p.m. at the AmericInn of Oscoda (720 E Harbor St., Oscoda, MI 48750, 989-739-1986). At 3:00 p.m. that same day, arrangements have been made to visit the Foote Dam powerhouse for those who are interested.


----------



## autumnlovr

stelmon said:


> Nice fish! Wish we could have found some but like jon said, the wind was a pain.
> 
> Just recieved MUCC's email and below foote was in the article.
> 
> Consumers Energy Announces Public meeting on Au Sable flow issues
> In recent weeks MUCC has been hearing from a growing list of concerned anglers, guides and residents of the Au Sable River country about the operation of the Foote Dam and its suspected impact on the steelhead, salmon, and trout fishery.
> 
> *While MUCC initiated discussions with DNR and DEQ officials about the issue*, the federally licensed operator of the dam, Consumers Energy, has since scheduled a public meeting in Oscoda on Tuesday, February 10 to hear from the public and address concerns. A visit to the Foote Dams powerhouse has also been arranged earlier in the afternoon.
> 
> The primary focus of the meeting will be to discuss what can be done to address the operating concerns and maintain compliance, with a specific focus on the following:
> (1) what are the license requirements regarding operations for the six dams
> (2) a discussion of run-of-river, peaking and re-regulation
> (3) a brief discussion of the available data
> (4) a discussion of potential alternatives.
> 
> The meeting will take place on Tuesday, February 10 beginning at 7:00 p.m. at the AmericInn of Oscoda (720 E Harbor St., Oscoda, MI 48750, 989-739-1986). At 3:00 p.m. that same day, arrangements have been made to visit the Foote Dam powerhouse for those who are interested.


You beat me to it! I just got back in and was checking my email and got a copy also. Did MUCC really initiate discussions? Or was it you guys?


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## Slodrift

I would have to say Kelly had more to do with getting this meeting scheduled than anyone, he was on Consumers and the DNR before MUCC even got involved.

Iosco County press and Oscoda Press said they are going to run the info about the meeting in this weeks papers.


----------



## Ron Matthews

Ya, This is the second Meeting with the agency's, This was started long ago Even before the winter of 07.
People started to notice a diff trend in river flows in 06, Nobody asked alot of questions up till that point.


----------



## Slodrift

*This is what was printed in the Iosco County Press and Oscoda Press.....*


*Consumers Energy to hold meeting on concerns over Foote Dam flow*
by Holly Nelson
OSCODA - Continued angler concerns about the impacts of Foote Dam operations on the lower AuSable River fishery has resulted in Consumers Energy calling a public meeting in Oscoda for Tuesday, Feb. 10, 7 p.m., at the AmericInn on Harbor Street in AuSable Township, which is open to the public.

Power company officials plan to present an overview of the license requirements regarding operation of the six AuSable River dams. They will discuss the various flow modes - peaking, run-of-river and re-regulation - along with available data. There will also be a discussion of potential alternatives for the operation of Foote.
Also expected to participate in the meeting are representatives of the Michigan Department of Natural Resources, the U.S. Forest Service and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

According to James Bernier, the companys senior natural resource manager, Consumers is currently working with the DNR on different ways to address public concerns.



The primary focus of the meeting will be to discuss what can be done while still maintaining compliance with the project license, Bernier said.

Foote is one of six hydroelectric dams on the AuSable River owned and operated by Consumers. It is licensed and its operation regulated by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC).

[We are] fully in compliance with the license. But, could some things be done differently? Absolutely, Bernier said.

During the past few years, some anglers have contended dramatic fluctuations in water levels on the riverine stretch below Foote Dam have negatively impacted the steelhead fishery. Many blame Consumers and contend this is done to maximum electric generation.



One such critic is Shawn Tidball of National City, who contends the operation is irresponsible and mishandles a major resource.

According to Bernier, the bulk of complaints occur during winter months, a time in which most AuSable River dams operate on a run-of-river mode. This basically means that water is let out of the dams as it comes into the ponds.

During a cold winter, ice dams form in the ponds, backing up water, Bernier explained. Eventually, these natural dams let loose and the surge of water must be passed through the hydro dams.

Consumers Energys 13 hydroelectric dams have the capacity to generate 132 megawatts of renewable electricity at facilities on the AuSable, as well as the Manistee, Muskegon, Grand and Kalamazoo rivers. Foote Dam has been generating electricity since 1918.


----------



## Kelly Neuman

Consumers Energy can keep stating that as many times as they want but that will not make it true! They have been in violation of there FERC agreement numerous times over the last ten years and the operations at Foote is just one of many. Last year we heard it could not be run any differently. Now we hear "absolutely" it can be run differently. I would say that is progress in the right direction. I do urge all to come to meeting in Oscoda to show support for the Au Sable River!


----------



## Ron Matthews

*Au Sable river anglers, utility debate Oscoda dam's effect on steelhead*

*by Helen Lounsbury | Bay City Times Monday February 02, 2009, 9:20 AM
*

OSCODA - Sports fishermen know that the Au Sable River's steelhead fishery lives and dies with the stream's rise and fall, warming and cooling.
Which is why anglers are angered by what they describe as another winter of wild, rapid flow fluctuations caused by Consumers Energy's Foote Dam operation near Oscoda.
BE HEARD WHAT: Anglers, natural resource managers and Consumers Energy meet to discuss Au Sable River flow changes below Foote Dam.
WHEN: 7 p.m. Tuesday, Feb. 10. 
WHERE: AmericInn of Oscoda, 720 E. Harbor St.


The hydroelectric dam is among six Consumers runs on the Au Sable; it's the only dam that directly affects the river's 9 miles of steelhead waters.
"Some fluctuation we expect, but not the dramatic ramp-up and draw-down we've seen in a matter of minutes," bemoans Ron Matthews, a Flint angler who fishes the Au Sable all winter. "The big changes in depth and water speed scatter the fish, erode the banks and create these ice floes that scour the spawning beds.
"They're ruining a fishery that was just getting strong again."
Anglers' protests, echoed, have drawn enough attention to prompt state and federal fisheries managers to request a Feb. 10 meeting for river stakeholders, with Consumers Energy, in Oscoda. 
The 7 p.m. session should be a "frank, open discussion" of flow concerns and possible solutions, according to Bob Stuber, fisheries biologist for the Huron National Forest Service. Stuber called the meeting.
Consumers Energy acknowledges winter flow problems below Foote Dam. Managers add, however, that operations comply with the utility's federal licensing agreement. The latter requires that Foote Dam activity reflect the river's natural flow and flow changes.
"The biggest difference is that it's been a more severe winter than we've seen in recent years," said James Bernier, senior resource manager for Consumers' hydro generation. 
"We get ice dams upstream that hold the water, then break free and send more water downstream."
Foote Dam is managed to reflect such fluctuations, he says.
Bernier adds that Consumers Energy is exploring ways to adjust dam equipment so that it releases, and ceases, flow more gradually, over a period of hours.
The power company will present its findings Feb. 10.
"We want some real answers this year," Matthews says. "We met with Consumers last year and they claimed (dam) operator error. Now it's ice. We want a solution."

*See more in* Community News, Environment, Government News, Outdoors


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## Kelly Neuman

Add James Bernier to the list of rejects from Consumers Energy who can not tell the truth! James if your out there pull head out of ass. Last two weeks the ice is the worst it has been in years and most nights below zero but dam is being operated like you said was not possible for the last year! Do you know how many past emails I have from Consumers stating what we were asking for was not possible due to equipment and license limatations?


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## ausable_steelhead

Man, I never imagined this would get this big and this far, it's GREAT to see the Au Sab get some attention and positive action. It's also great to see that a few people still care to make a difference on that side of the State. I hope we can come to an agreement with Consumers; we have some great points on the current flow and conditions, and on Consumers petty exscuses.....


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## Slodrift

Streamside Custom Rod said:


> Last two weeks the ice is the worst it has been in years and most nights below zero but dam is being operated like you said was not possible for the last year! Do you know how many past emails I have from Consumers stating what we were asking for was not possible due to equipment and license limatations?


It is simply amazing isn't it!!!:SHOCKED:


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## cheweyscharters

the true test of consumers is coming!!!below 0 temps tonight then a big warm up right before the meeting! i wonder how dumb they react to that. i would think we can expect an increase in flows but by how much? any predictions?


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## Slodrift

Although they are talking about a warm up it's not suppose to be a major one up here, one day near 40 (Tue) and a few in the mid to upper 30's(so far) with temps dropping into the 20's at night. I would think that with all the attention we have brought to this problem Consumers will do a better job from here on out, but remember this is Consumers we are talking about here. Maybe at the least we will get rid of some of the ice that has built up in the lower river..... No predictions here as I have given up trying to figure out what Consumers will do, we'll just have to wait and see.


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## OscodaAsh

Members of the Michigan Audubon will be at the meeting in support of consumers. They are worried about erosion of the banks taking away "important" river side habit for some of the warblers.:yikes: Just giving you guys a heads-up.


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## Slodrift

Usual hole? Why what ever do you mean?:shhh::lol:


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## Slodrift

It's 50 degree's here right now and the river is rising fast, lots of ice breaking loose from shore and heading down river. There is a lot of run off and we have lost a lot of snow so I would imagine the CFS's are going to rise pretty good in the next few days. Fishing started off pretty strong this morning but quickly slowed in the area we were in, kind of interested to hear how you did down river Kelly, let me know.


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## ausable_steelhead

Hey you forgot to mention the snagger and the @$$hole who kept a 13 incher...don't hold back bro, put that $h!t out in the open.....


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## Slodrift

ausable_steelhead said:


> Hey you forgot to mention the snagger and the @$$hole who kept a 13 incher...don't hold back bro, put that $h!t out in the open.....


I'm sorry, I won't let it happen again 

There are a lot of juvenile fish (13 to 20 inches) in the system right now which tells me that our Cormorant harassing is working. There are a lot of them going home on stringers also, I have no problem with someone keeping a legal fish to eat but a lot of these fish are being kept by locals who fish 3 to 5 times a week and get plenty of adult fish. I know not everyone has the privilege of fishing a couple times a week and when you drive a long distance, and want some fish for the pan go for it but when you live right here and fish weekly there is no reason to keep the younguns. See what you did Jon, you got me ranting and hijacking the thread :lol:

BUT....there is no excuse for keeping an undersized fish!!!:rant:

Same goes for a snagged fish, local or not ...no excuse for putting it on the stringer!

By the way how long do you think they will run Foote higher than the upstream Dams this time?????


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## Kelly Neuman

Thought we would have some good fishing today but fish were just not on the bite. When that water started to rise so much shelf ice has knocked loose it made fishing very tough. Hopefully river will be ice free in couple days and fishing should pick up again.


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## Ron Matthews

Consumers going to DUMP all that water so we can have low flows for the end of week!!
Nice job trying to manage a resource.


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## Ron Matthews

The river is still covered in ice?, Frozen across at some gauge sites?


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## Ron Matthews

4 Day's at tippy doesn't look anything like Foote dam..


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## Slodrift

If your going to the tour of the Dam tomorrow be careful when you enter the parking lot especially if you are in a car that sits low. They plowed part of the lot but you have to drive over parking blocks to get in and there is some re-bar sticking up through them a few inches that could easily pop a tire. It wasn't bad when they were covered with snow but the snow melted away and they are exposed now.

Fishing was slow for us today, ended up with a stripe, seen one fish caught at the Dam and that Rea Rd guy landed a nice one down stream from a boat. Kelly went past us all alone and didn't even offer to take us with him even though he had all that room in the boat   :lol:, hope you got into a few Kelly,we called it a day shortly after talking to you.


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## Kelly Neuman

Why spike the water on Feb 7th?? That is simple - a good time to make some extra power for Consumers and pass it off as run off! Temps went into the 50's and a big flush of water is what some think would happen on a warm winter day. In a big frozen river run off does not start that fast there was no spike up stream at any gauge or dam - some even dropped. Here is picture on Feb 8th at the Mckinnely gauge (4001 bridge). This ice goes for 10-15 miles up stream! Good point for Consumers at meeting tomorrow!









Shawn I hit a few more holes but did not stay long either. I have not found a biter since the water went up.


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## Slodrift

Streamside Custom Rod said:


> I have not found a biter since the water went up.


Same here, Saturday before they opened her up was the last time we had any luck and have only seen 2 fish caught since then.


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## uofmguy68

wanting to head up and get my line wet, the ice is gonna start disapearing... hows the shelf ice on the sides of the river? down around here in genesee county its gonna be to scary to venture out on the ice after the next couple of days but i doubt the season will be done, parts of the local river is open around there... so that has me thinking hows the ice looking on the Au Sable river? any areas open enough for shore fishing....? if so pm me i dont care if i catch anything just want to get my line wet...


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## ausable_steelhead

Uofmguy68, you should be fine, most shelf ice is probably gone by now, with the spike in water. There's a few fish around, but sound's like the water spike slowed them down some. High water seems to scatter them, and get them moving a little more; once it drops, they'll pool up.


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## herb09

Fished today river and weather perfect fishing not.


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## Slodrift

Man what a melt off we had, 2370 cfs.... there's some water flowing now.


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