# Watervliet Dam Removal



## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

Any chance of increased stocking of michigan strain steelhead in the near future on the paw paw from 9,000 which is what was put in this year up to 15,000-20,000?


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## Jay Wesley (Mar 2, 2009)

Multispeciestamer said:


> Any chance of increased stocking of michigan strain steelhead in the near future on the paw paw from 9,000 which is what was put in this year up to 15,000-20,000?


There is a chance, but the fish would have to come from another stocking. We could move from fish from the Joe or the Grand to the Paw Paw, but those anglers would not be too happy about that. 

Our yearling steelhead production is at capacity. We could possibly put fall fingerlings in but not any more yearlings.


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## Jay Wesley (Mar 2, 2009)

BigR said:


> jay, what about that site the city of Hartford maintains now, I think its part of the old chernugel farm on my platbook, just west of the hartford speedway, that was a large chunk on the paw paw. There is a site by Hanson cold storage in Hartford as well that the people allowed access for years until a few bad apples screwed it up, but that was one sweet stretch of gravel back in there as well and an access road that runs right back to it practically.


Thanks! Are these sites for sale or do you know that there is a willing seller?

Wonder if the City of Hartford would want to improve their site.


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

Jay Wesley said:


> There is a chance, but the fish would have to come from another stocking. We could move from fish from the Joe or the Grand to the Paw Paw, but those anglers would not be too happy about that.
> 
> Our yearling steelhead production is at capacity. We could possibly put fall fingerlings in but not any more yearlings.


 Right, but the fingerlings idea isnt bad. I would fear the pike would have a easy lunch. Not that they dont consume the yearlings already.


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## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

Multispeciestamer said:


> Right, but the fingerlings idea isnt bad. I would fear the pike would have a easy lunch. Not that they dont consume the yearlings already.


I disagree, large amounts of Fall fingerlings can ruin the fishing on small water, you can't keep em off the hook...


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

Boozer said:


> I disagree, large amounts of Fall fingerlings can ruin the fishing on small water, you can't keep em off the hook...


 easy fix use a bigger spawn bag :lol: or use bigger smolt imitating flies 4-6 inchs long.


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## anon12162011 (Jun 9, 2009)

PM Sent Jay...


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

Boozer said:


> I disagree, large amounts of Fall fingerlings can ruin the fishing on small water, you can't keep em off the hook...


Wholeheartedly agree, large spawnsacs not withstanding.


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## quest32a (Sep 25, 2001)

Fall fingerlings are a pain. 

BTW, I would absolutely love to come watch when the upper dam is pulled. Any ideas on the dates?


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## Still Wait'n (Nov 25, 2005)

quest32a said:


> Fall fingerlings are a pain.
> 
> BTW, *I would absolutely love to come watch when the upper dam is pulled.* Any ideas on the dates?


That would be interesting to see.


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## quest32a (Sep 25, 2001)

Still Wait'n said:


> That would be interesting to see.


And about an hour after you will see me pillaging the old river bottom for hardware...LOL


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## Jay Wesley (Mar 2, 2009)

Maybe you couldnt make it to the Fish DemoHere is another chance to learn more about the Watervliet Dams Removal Project to restore the Paw Paw River.

Two dams on the Paw Paw River at Watervliet are to be removed later this year to restore connectivity to over 100 miles of river and streams. To read more about the project visit www.swmpc.org/watervlietdam.asp If you have any questions about the project or event, please contact Marcy Colclough with the Southwest Michigan Planning Commission at [email protected] or 269-925-1137 x25. We hope to see you there! 

*PUBLIC SITE ORIENTATION*
*June 16, 2011 5:00-6:00pm*
*Hays Park Pavilion, Watervliet (the park is located to the east of M-140 just north of the Paw Paw River in downtown Watervliet)* 
*Open to the Public *
The meeting will give those interested in seeing the site or those unable to attend the hearing a chance to hear a brief introduction to the project and see the site. The MDEQ will host a public hearing following at 6:30pm at Watervliet Township Hall (see below).
​*MDEQ Permitting Process - Public Hearing*
*JUNE 16, 2011 6:30pm*
*Watervliet Township Hall, 4959 M-140, Watervliet, MI*
MDEQ is reviewing the permit and accepting comments. A 30 minute question and answer period will begin at *6:30pm* and the Public Hearing portion will begin at 7:00pm. MDEQ will accept written comments for 10 days after the public hearing date.


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## Monark (Sep 16, 2007)

Attending the meeting helped alleviate some of the concerns I had with the dam removals. Marty with ECT took alot of time to explain and answer questions. What I found most interesting and satisfying was that they do not expect to see much of a drop in the level or width of the current river channel (mill race) and we will get a flowing river at the historical channel vs. the stagnant backwater we have now. So we pretty much will end up with double the section of river we have now. I did ask the DNR to investigate purchasing the Berrien County property so that it may be used for public access. Berrien County currently owns the island, the parking area south of the spillwater dam and the old paper mill site. The county is actively seeking someone to purchase and develop the old paper mill site which could make access there an issue. I also tried to encourage them to start the removal at some time other than in the fall as this might disrupt salmon and steelhead spawning but due to time constraints this may not be possible. There is still time for public comment concerning the approval of the permits if anyone else has any issues or concerns.

Jay - Great meeting you and thanks for taking the time to keep us informed. By the way, where did the DEQ dig up those two clowns that chaired the meeting? I try not to be critical of others but these guys just gave the impression that this was a waste of their time. I understand if political correctness prevents you from answering that.


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## twowack (Dec 21, 2010)

Im glad to see it happen, Ive been fishing that river since I was young boy with my father, I think returning it back to its natural state is a wonderful thing, as far as structure for the fish, the beaver are doing a wonderful job already, just take a walk upstream, Looking into the dams that have already been removed, they have had success with them, tight lines fellas its gonna be alright. Education on this subject is the whole key to understanding it,
There is enough info on internet now to help as well as attending the meetings and asking questions,I hear complaints from fishing buddies and I always have to ask if they have read up or attended any meetings to ask about your concerns and the usual reply is ,uuh,,,no. My reply is get involved, some fishing holes might change alittle ,even the ones you think are secret but really never were,buy a canoe or yak take a trip,now if we could figure out how to get people to stop the leaving the trash. I can adapt to the change.


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

I am interested to see how the river is this fall, when I salmon fish it. I also wonder how good this will make the brown trout fishery. :chillin:


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

Jay Wesley said:


> We could move from fish from the...Grand to the Paw Paw, *but those anglers would not be too happy about that*.
> 
> Our yearling steelhead production is at capacity. We could possibly put fall fingerlings in but not any more yearlings.


"not happy" is the understatement of the year. I know of one angler that happens to be typing this response who would be absolutely LIVID if you took fish from the Grand or anywhere for that matter to increase the plants in the freakin' Paw Paw of all places. :16suspect


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## Still Wait'n (Nov 25, 2005)

thousandcasts said:


> "not happy" is the understatement of the year. I know of one angler that happens to be typing this response who would be absolutely LIVID if you took fish from the Grand or anywhere for that matter to increase the plants in the freakin' Paw Paw of all places. :16suspect


Hey, I'm all for it.


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

thousandcasts said:


> "not happy" is the understatement of the year. I know of one angler that happens to be typing this response who would be absolutely LIVID if you took fish from the Grand or anywhere for that matter to increase the plants in the freakin' Paw Paw of all places. :16suspect


 Paw paw's a cold river year round, I would love to see it happen. But it wont.:lol:


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## samsteel (Oct 6, 2008)

thousandcasts said:


> "not happy" is the understatement of the year. I know of one angler that happens to be typing this response who would be absolutely LIVID if you took fish from the Grand or anywhere for that matter to increase the plants in the freakin' Paw Paw of all places. :16suspect


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## quest32a (Sep 25, 2001)

Multispeciestamer said:


> Paw paw's a cold river year round, I would love to see it happen. But it wont.:lol:


The Paw Paw gets in the high 70's during the summer. Cooler than the Joe yes, but no where near a cold river.

_Heres an excerpt from Paw Paw River Watershed Management Plan.
Coldwater streams contribute to the hydrologic stability of the PPRW because they have large groundwater inputs. Coldwater streams with a July monthly average of 70 degrees Fahrenheit or lower comprise 69% (100 miles) of the river distance within the watershed. Designated trout streams (MDNR Fisheries Division regulations) found in the watershed are characterized by having fish communities dominated by mottled sculpin, brown trout, and coldwater minnows. Sand Creek, Blue Creek, Mill Creek, Pine Creek, Brush Creek, North Branch Paw Paw River and tributaries above M-40, West Branch and East Branch above M-40 are designated coldwater trout streams within the watershed.
34_
So yes a good deal of the upper river above Maple Lake is cold, but the lower part of the river near Watervilet is warm. Heres a link to the entire document. Very interesting reading.
http://www.swmpc.org/downloads/PPRW_DraftWMP.pdf


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

quest32a said:


> The Paw Paw gets in the high 70's during the summer. Cooler than the Joe yes, but no where near a cold river.
> 
> _Heres an excerpt from Paw Paw River Watershed Management Plan._
> _Coldwater streams contribute to the hydrologic stability of the PPRW because they have large groundwater inputs. Coldwater streams with a July monthly average of 70 degrees Fahrenheit or lower comprise 69% (100 miles) of the river distance within the watershed. Designated trout streams (MDNR Fisheries Division regulations) found in the watershed are characterized by having fish communities dominated by mottled sculpin, brown trout, and coldwater minnows. Sand Creek, Blue Creek, Mill Creek, Pine Creek, Brush Creek, North Branch Paw Paw River and tributaries above M-40, West Branch and East Branch above M-40 are designated coldwater trout streams within the watershed._
> ...


 So all that upper habitat would provide smolts a good chance to live through the summer so long as the browns, walleye or pike dont eat them. Very good link btw.


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