# Deer from northwestern Wisconsin game farm tests negative for chronic wasting disease



## uptracker

Munster,

Next time you go to the Deer and Turkey show, ask Greg Miller why he doesn't hunt in his home state anymore...aside from doing a show at Tom Indrebo's place. Next time you see Pat Durkin, ask him how he feels bait has affected his home state.


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## Munsterlndr

uptracker said:


> Munster,
> 
> Next time you go to the Deer and Turkey show, ask Greg Miller why he doesn't hunt in his home state anymore...aside from doing a show at Tom Indrebo's place. Next time you see Pat Durkin, ask him how he feels bait has affected his home state.


I don't go to deer or turkey shows any more, they tend to be mostly about trophy hunting hype in my opinion and that's not my thing. As far as Pat Durkin, I see him as Wisconsin's version of Eric Sharp, not too many original thoughts, tends to recycle well worn topics just to fill some space on a page. But by all means, if you don't like hunting in Michigan, feel free to go out of state, nothing wrong with that.


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## uptracker

Well, since you're not interested in going to a show or asking the ex-editor or Deer and Deer Hunting magazine (who's shot a lot ob really big deer on public land DIY hunts without bait), I'll fill you in.

Greg Miller doesn't hunt in WI anymore, his homestate, since they allowed baiting some 10 years ago. The hunting has gone done hill north of the 45th parallel of the state. He grew up hunting mature whitetails and was very successful at it. This was a time before bait. He did all the leg woork in the north woods to fill his tag every year and a quality speciman.

Pat, well, he's been involved in a camp in Bayfield Co. for 20+ years. If you don't that area, it borders Douglas and Ashland counties. The area used to give up Booner after Booner. (I use Booner as a reference to get an idea of how large the bucks were) The area now produces mediocre bucks and most of them are small 6 points or less. He attributes this to baiting issues, just like Greg Miller. He even gave up on an out of state spot because all the guys bringing bait with them and shooting every little buck they saw.

WI has gone down the tubes in the northern half of the state just like MI has....bait has a lot to do with it. You'll never convince me otherwise.

We need to get to a point where there are the same number of 1 1/2 year old bucks in area as there are 4 1 /2 year bucks. That's the way mother nature designed it and that's how it should be. As long as bait allows all the yahoos to shoot dink bucks every year, we'll never see: a pronounced rut, all out battles between two brute bucks, rubs and scrapes everywhere.

Some people need to go hunt somewhere where this is happening already, to get an idea of what they missing out on. I haven't had a rack back cross the road in front of my vehicle in the EUP since 2002. When I go where the deer herd is in good shape, I could see three or four rack bucks just driving one way from camp to hunting location....a 30 minute ride.

People here think we're doing just fine.......sad.

P.S. Sorry for the spelling errors. I have a cat in my way and it's causing me to type with one hand.:evil:


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## KPC

Munsterlndr said:


> No, carrying your analogy a little further, in this case a shoe bomber did not exist, it turned out to be just an ordinary run-of-the-mill passenger.
> 
> Interesting analogy, though. In the case of the actual shoe bomber, the preventive measures that were put in place (TSA screening) failed to prevent the threat from occurring yet provide a false sense of security, just as a baiting prohibition would fail to prevent the spread of CWD, should it make it into the free ranging deer population of Michigan. If CWD comes to Michigan, it will continue to spread, even if every ounce of bait was removed from the woods. That is simply an undeniable fact.
> 
> Focusing so much effort and resources attempting to curb an activity that poses no threat, in the absence of disease, is an absurd mis-allocation of public resources. But like not allowing passengers to carry nail clippers or tweezers on an airplane, it provides the illusion that the powers that be are doing something to address the problem.
> 
> If you really want to prevent CWD from coming to Michigan, target increased regulation or elimination of captive deer facilities and more stringent regulation of taxidermy operations, as well as ban the use of urine-based scents.


Yeah, but that would be* profiling*.

:lol:

Well thought out post Munster, void of the emotional, agenda driven, *"never let a good crisis go to waste"* mentality that we are so used to on here.

I posted this on another site but let me ask you all a serious question.

Assuming what the "experts" say is correct, that urine and feces is one of the most efficient transmitters of this disease, and that the prions live on forever in the soil, over a deer's lifetime, or even over a year for that matter, where to you think deer would be most at risk...


Here?










Or here?










KPC


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## uptracker

That's a nice mountain bike path in the second pic.....Bald Mountain, Gaylord or TC? Or is it a trail that lead to a late December bait pile in the U.P. (after snow melt)?


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## Munsterlndr

KPC said:


> Yeah, but that would be* profiling*.
> 
> :lol:
> 
> Well thought out post Munster, void of the emotional, agenda driven, *"never let a good crisis go to waste"* mentality that we are so used to on here.
> 
> I posted this on another site but let me ask you all a serious question.
> 
> Assuming what the "experts" say is correct, that urine and feces is one of the most efficient transmitters of this disease, and that the prions live on forever in the soil, over a deer's lifetime, or even over a year for that matter, where to you think deer would be most at risk...


Well, since you asked...... I'd say here. 





































Those brassica and beet plots will draw them in like flies. :coolgleam


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## KPC

uptracker said:


> That's a nice mountain bike path in the second pic.....Bald Mountain, Gaylord or TC? Or is it a trail that lead to a late December bait pile in the U.P. (after snow melt)?


Actually, it was in Google images under "deer trail." I trust you get the point, and I notice that you also avoided the question.

Over his/her lifetime, where is a deer at more risk of contact with onother deer's urine and feces? 

If you don't like the well used deer trail analogy, how about...

Here?










Or here?










Remember now, the "experts" say the prions stay in the soil forever.

:16suspect

KPC


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## Munsterlndr

Hey KPC -

You hit a home run with that recent post over on Bowsite, one of the most cogent and well thought out summaries of the situation that I've ever read...........felt like I was reading one of my own posts! 

It deserves reposting over here.


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## KPC

Munsterlndr said:


> Hey KPC -
> 
> You hit a home run with that recent post over on Bowsite, one of the most cogent and well thought out summaries of the situation that I've ever read...........felt like I was reading one of my own posts!
> 
> It deserves reposting over here.


I you want to cut an paste it, be my guest. I have to pick my daughter up from school so we can actually go hunting. Can you blieve that??

Apparently we are both making too much sense. Otherwise this thread wouldn't have been moved to the back 40 where nobody else would see it, unless of course they searched for it.



KPC


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## swampbuck

uptracker said:


> That's the way I feel too....just how far off is it though. I do know this new guy from PA, that's a big wig in the MDNRE now, absolutely hates bait and loves QDM. Can't remember his name...anybody know?


 His name is Russ Mason and he is close to solving all of the problems in the NLP and UP by eliminating the deer herd by mismanagement and neglect and losing hunters to frustration and disgust at the dismal deer density in the northern 2/3 of the state.....

He needs to go back to where he came from.


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## Munsterlndr

swampbuck said:


> His name is Russ Mason and he is close to solving all of the problems in the NLP and UP by eliminating the deer herd by mismanagement and neglect and losing hunters to frustration and disgust at the dismal deer density in the northern 2/3 of the state.....
> 
> He needs to go back to where he came from.


Dr. Mason is from Colorado, not PA. Have you ever spoken with him face to face? He's actually a pretty reasonable guy. I don't agree with everything that he's done but I think you are giving him a little too much credit, there are a number of other forces driving what has happened in the NLP/UP other then Mason's policies.


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## tgafish

Munsterlndr said:


> No, carrying your analogy a little further, in this case a shoe bomber did not exist, it turned out to be just an ordinary run-of-the-mill passenger.
> 
> Interesting analogy, though. In the case of the actual shoe bomber, the preventive measures that were put in place (TSA screening) failed to prevent the threat from occurring yet provide a false sense of security, just as a baiting prohibition would fail to prevent the spread of CWD, should it make it into the free ranging deer population of Michigan. If CWD comes to Michigan, it will continue to spread, even if every ounce of bait was removed from the woods. That is simply an undeniable fact.
> 
> Focusing so much effort and resources attempting to curb an activity that poses no threat, in the absence of disease, is an absurd mis-allocation of public resources. But like not allowing passengers to carry nail clippers or tweezers on an airplane, it provides the illusion that the powers that be are doing something to address the problem.
> 
> If you really want to prevent CWD from coming to Michigan, target increased regulation or elimination of captive deer facilities and more stringent regulation of taxidermy operations, as well as ban the use of urine-based scents.


Perfection


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## swampbuck

Munsterlndr said:


> Dr. Mason is from Colorado, not PA. Have you ever spoken with him face to face? He's actually a pretty reasonable guy. I don't agree with everything that he's done but I think you are giving him a little too much credit, there are a number of other forces driving what has happened in the NLP/UP other then Mason's policies.


 I agree that there are other forces, winter 08-09, coyotes etc. But there are things he can influence/control such as overharvest of does, APR's in a diseased area, His qdma fixation, Misuse of DRIP funds, even coyotes as he has worked with predator control etc. In this area the deer population has been on a downward spiral for several years. What would normally be a busy time for the economy has evaporated because of the lack of deer........But they still issued 1000 doe permits........I believe that is is intentionally reducing the population in preparation for APR's........The beginning of trying to slip QDM in under the radar.

Russ Mason is the chief of the wildlife division, It is HIS PROBLEM. 

He actually came here from Nevada. I Wonder why he only stayed there 3 years.

I havnt spoken to him, My previous conversations with some of the NRC/DNR big wigs did not end on a high note........I dont like it when they try to blow smoke up my a**. I have been working on a e-mail for him, It takes a while to convert a profanity laced tirade into a profesional courteous conversation. If I get a response I will share.


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## e. fairbanks

Russ Mason and Dr. Schmitt concluded their investigation as to the source of the CWD INFECTION FOUND IN THE KENT COUNTY DOE when they examined the records of the taxidermy shop connected w/the deer farm.


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## S.E.M.O.R.E.

swampbuck said:


> I agree that there are other forces, winter 08-09, coyotes etc. But there are things he can influence/control such as overharvest of does, APR's in a diseased area, His qdma fixation, Misuse of DRIP funds, even coyotes as he has worked with predator control etc. In this area the deer population has been on a downward spiral for several years. What would normally be a busy time for the economy has evaporated because of the lack of deer........But they still issued 1000 doe permits........I believe that is is intentionally reducing the population in preparation for APR's........The beginning of trying to slip QDM in under the radar.
> 
> Russ Mason is the chief of the wildlife division, It is HIS PROBLEM.
> 
> He actually came here from Nevada. I Wonder why he only stayed there 3 years.
> 
> I havnt spoken to him, My previous conversations with some of the NRC/DNR big wigs did not end on a high note........I dont like it when they try to blow smoke up my a**. I have been working on a e-mail for him, It takes a while to convert a profanity laced tirade into a profesional courteous conversation. If I get a response I will share.


You need to verify your "thoughts" cause they aint facts.

Diversion of drip funding was done that I know of since 1996. The key architechts are MSU, Rebecca Humphries, Mindy Koch, MNFI.....RUSS MASON DIDNT HAVE SQUAT TO DO WITH IT.

Likewise he didnt have a thing to do with the baiting and feeding ban in place..the trigger was set up when DNR TRIED to stop captive cervid ranches in the first place. (2003? Mason wasnt even here) So thank Dept of agriculture for that along with the russian boars (wild boars) we are apparently facing...I havent seen one or any evidence but I believe theyre out there.

QDMA fixation???? I must have missed something. NRC made that decision on behalf of a bunch of wannabe biologist bow hunters suggesting they have the answers on the small rack sizes but what theyre really trying to do is save themselves some bucks after gun season.

Talk about tradition? Hunting is for food, not trophy's. Go to a game ranch or be happy with a wild hunt without telling everyone else to play by your rules. 

OH, off track? Nope, grow a pair and contact Mason yourself...likely you will hear the same from him. I HAVE spent hours talking with the Man...youre all wet with what youre saying about him.

He came here from Arizona. I dont blame him for leaving either...bunch of tree huggin liberal weanies out there.

Mason is a common sense Man. Take the time, go to an NRC meeting, approach him on one of the numerous breaks, and talk with him. Youre giving him a bad rap without meeting him or knowing the REAL story.

(I have no affiliation with the state, dnr, or Mason...just a resident Michigan Outdoor enthusiast.)


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## swampbuck

Regardless of what problems he created or inherited one fact that is indisputable........He is the cheif of the wildlife division THEY ARE HIS PROBLEMS TO DEAL WITH.

As far as your wealth of knowledge regarding the facts........




> "August 5, 2008, Greencastle, Ind. - J. Russell Mason, a 1976 graduate of DePauw University, has been appointed chief of the Michigan Department of Natural Resources' wildlife division. Dr. Mason has served as game chief for the Nevada Department of Wildlife since 2005. He will assume his new position next month"
> 
> 
> 
> His bio.....http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=21914
> 
> And the controversy he started there just before leaving NEVADA was his idea to shoot wild horses and burrows in the field....Wonder how many horse lovers are in Michigan.
> 
> Also I am.......anti QDM, Anti baiting, and anti trophy hunting. And I think its about time we have some REAL BIOLOGIST'S IN CHARGE OF OUR WILDFLIFE.
Click to expand...


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## S.E.M.O.R.E.

swampbuck said:


> Regardless of what problems he created or inherited one fact that is indisputable........He is the cheif of the wildlife division THEY ARE HIS PROBLEMS TO DEAL WITH.
> 
> *As far as your wealth of knowledge regarding the facts........*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "August 5, 2008, Greencastle, Ind. - J. Russell Mason, a 1976 graduate of DePauw University, has been appointed chief of the Michigan Department of Natural Resources' wildlife division. Dr. Mason has served as game chief for the Nevada Department of Wildlife since 2005. He will assume his new position next month"
> 
> 
> 
> His bio.....http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=21914
> 
> And the controversy he started there just before leaving NEVADA was his idea to shoot wild horses and burrows in the field....Wonder how many horse lovers are in Michigan.
> 
> Also I am.......anti QDM, Anti baiting, and anti trophy hunting. And I think its about time we have some REAL BIOLOGIST'S IN CHARGE OF OUR WILDFLIFE.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, ya got me...I am at deer camp, dont have my paperwork to re verify, but as soon as I read it again, it WAS Nevada...and yes, the decision to just "shoot" the horses pissed em off. Wild horses are a pain in the [email protected]@ out there if the Wyoming Ranchers I have spoke with arent telling me a story. Theyre mean, kill other wildlife, overgraze, cause a lot of problems...dunno personally, but Mason's solution was "shoot em
> 
> Personally, I believe the greatest thing about Mason is he didnt cut his teeth in MSU's "click". THat means He has a working brain and a backbone.
> 
> Seems DNRE is loaded with MSU brainwas...er educated individuals and as long as you have the MSU shingle, play their song, you have a career in State of Michigan employment.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## swampbuck

While he certainly has expierience in the wildlife field. I would rather have a BIOLOGIST from MSU or anywhere else running the wildlife division.....Dr. Mason is not a biologist.

"Mason has a bachelor's degree in psychology from DePauw University, a master's degree in animal learning from Clark University, and a Ph.D. in chemical ecology"


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## S.E.M.O.R.E.

Seems to me we were doing pretty well managing our wildlife UNTIL MSU got in the game vs. the REAL Field Personnel that were REAL outdoors enthusiasts....

Mason IS an outdoor enthusiast, hunting and fishing for sure. When have you heard of or seen others from DNRE in the field as outdoor enthusiasts vs. acting in their titled capacity? They rule from books written by others who dont even live here.

Take a hard look at the Wolf Re Introduction, Diversion of Funding, LIES to the people, deer number reductions, multiple schemes to get more money out of stake holders, providing LESS service with more rules..

Significant correlation with Becky Humphries rise to the top...All her underlings pushing her agenda and their own.

LOOK FOR SIGNIFICANT CHANGE after first of the year, it will take a bit of time...Mason just might turn out to be the best thing that ever happened to Michigan out of doors. Personally, I like what I have seen so far, I believe he is a good man.

As far as the psychology degree....I suspect it served him best when he had to deal with the agenda driven egotistical liars and thieves of the last administration.


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## e. fairbanks

http://www.wqow.com/Global/story.asp?S=13531684&clienttype=printable


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