# Bear Survey



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Did you all get it from the DNR?

I completed the survey today. It asked whether you agree or disagree with newly proposed harvest and tag quotas, as well as questions about bait barrels.


----------



## Tilden Hunter (Jun 14, 2018)

Is it online and available to hunters that didn't get a tag this year?


----------



## Fishindeer (Dec 29, 2017)

I received mine as a email today from the DNR. Haven’t opened it yet. Applied for point only last year.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Tilden Hunter said:


> Is it online and available to hunters that didn't get a tag this year?


I got it in an email. I am not sure about an online link. There is an option to complete an active wildlife survey on the DNR'S surveys and reports section.

I assume it would be all, or a sampling, of bear applicants who have signed up for DNR emails.


----------



## Botiz (Oct 21, 2010)

I got it and I’ve never had a bear tag before. Was also wondering why they sent it to me. I’m not gonna answer, don’t have any experience from which to base answers. 

I did like the proposal for the increased LP tags it detailed. Though I was confused why they also proposed decreases in UP tags after reporting an increase in bear prevalence in the UP as well as the LP


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Botiz said:


> I got it and I’ve never had a bear tag before. Was also wondering why they sent it to me. I’m not gonna answer, don’t have any experience from which to base answers.
> 
> I did like the proposal for the increased LP tags it detailed. Though I was confused why they also proposed decreases in UP tags after reporting an increase in bear prevalence in the UP as well as the LP


Did you ever apply?


----------



## Botiz (Oct 21, 2010)

Have only ever purchased points


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Botiz said:


> Have only ever purchased points


I'm guessing that's why you received the survey.

But maybe they should have had a qualification question like they do for other surveys. "Have you participated in bear...baiting, hunting, etc".


----------



## Botiz (Oct 21, 2010)

For sure, I should not be getting to answer a bear survey haha.


----------



## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

They should have never went to the lottery system.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Hunters Edge said:


> They should have never went to the lottery system.


What would you rather see? Points seem very fair to me. Makes planning easy.


----------



## Tilden Hunter (Jun 14, 2018)

Hunters Edge said:


> They should have never went to the lottery system.


Why's that? It seems to work good.


----------



## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

Tilden Hunter said:


> Why's that? It seems to work good.


Nope. Bear population did not warrant it. Why was those wanting to run bears coming from out of state want it easier to get on them for training. Thus the reason for limiting hunters.

Also it has caused increase in property damage and higher conflicts with humans and livestock/pets


----------



## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

sureshot006 said:


> What would you rather see? Points seem very fair to me. Makes planning easy.


There was nothing wrong with over the counter tags. Actually the bear population was healthy in Michigan prior to the implementation of the lottery system. It kind of went along with hunter attrition. Now you have less hunter recreation because of limiting licenses.


----------



## Tilden Hunter (Jun 14, 2018)

Hunters Edge said:


> Now you have less hunter recreation because of limiting licenses.


That's the cost of a huntable population.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Hunters Edge said:


> There was nothing wrong with over the counter tags. Actually the bear population was healthy in Michigan prior to the implementation of the lottery system. It kind of went along with hunter attrition. Now you have less hunter recreation because of limiting licenses.


Lol you think the population would remain healthy if it was OTC? Everyone and their mother would hunt bear. This is not 1950.


----------



## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

sureshot006 said:


> Lol you think the population would remain healthy if it was OTC? Everyone and their mother would hunt bear. This is not 1950.


I believe the lottery system did not get implemented tell 1995 maybe 1997.


----------



## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

Tilden Hunter said:


> That's the cost of a huntable population.


Not so, it was a huntable population prior to the implementation of the lottery system.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Hunters Edge said:


> I believe the lottery system did not get implemented tell 1995 maybe 1997.


Things are a bit different now. You'd have a lot more people targeting bear. At least until the population wasn't worth hunting.


----------



## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

sureshot006 said:


> Things are a bit different now. You'd have a lot more people targeting bear. At least until the population wasn't worth hunting.


Not very different at all. Check the stats and bear populations from the year before the lottery to 2020. What you have is a certain group instigating higher bear numbers to make it easier to run them with dogs. Not to hunt them with dogs but to be able to run then to help train their dogs in the off season.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Hunters Edge said:


> Not very different at all. Check the stats and bear populations from the year before the lottery to 2020. What you have is a certain group instigating higher bear numbers to make it easier to run them with dogs. Not to hunt them with dogs but to be able to run then to help train their dogs in the off season.


----------



## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

sureshot006 said:


> View attachment 631315
> View attachment 631317
> View attachment 631319


I believe you just proved my point.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Hunters Edge said:


> I believe you just proved my point.


Do you need me to point out the text?


----------



## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

Just look at the bear populations before lottery was instituted. When it was over the counter.

Keep in mind seasons are implemented to achieve game management. Not to make it easier.

Also by limiting license sales they are limiting hunting recreation. Many applying apply for points only knowing they will not have the time or resources to hunt that year. So the actual those who wish to hunt are less that those applying.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Hunters Edge said:


> Just look at the bear populations before lottery was instituted. When it was over the counter.
> 
> Keep in mind seasons are implemented to achieve game management. Not to make it easier.
> 
> Also by limiting license sales they are limiting hunting recreation. Many applying apply for points only knowing they will not have the time or resources to hunt that year. So the actual those who wish to hunt are less that those applying.


Try reading it.


----------



## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

I did but it does not dispute facts of data. Even showing with over the counter sales still showing a slight increase in populations.

I noticed in 2008 showed hunter increased but is that application or actual applications that we're going to hunt. With the lottery many apply for preference points but no plans on bear hunting that year, which I already posted


----------



## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

Keep in mind where majority of bear population increases have occurred, many also deer hunt. Studies have showed that 30% or higher mortality rates on fawns were from bears. I would have to look it up but it was a study in Minnesota if I remember correctly.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Hunters Edge said:


> I did but it does not dispute facts of data. Even showing with over the counter sales still showing a slight increase in populations.
> 
> I noticed in 2008 showed hunter increased but is that application or actual applications that we're going to hunt. With the lottery many apply for preference points but no plans on bear hunting that year, which I already posted


There is significantly increased demand to bear hunt. Not just points. This document is from 2008. Demand is now higher than ever.

Giving everyone a tag that wants one would easily cause a large drop in populations (especially in the lower peninsula), which has been rising to the levels and hunter satisfaction we see now.

The survey addresses the desire for additional harvest in some areas and in a way, gages whether people think there is overpopulation or the opportunity for increased harvest without damaging hunter satisfaction.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Hunters Edge said:


> Keep in mind where majority of bear population increases have occurred, many also deer hunt. Studies have showed that 30% or higher mortality rates on fawns were from bears. I would have to look it up but it was a study in Minnesota if I remember correctly.


And dnr wants less deer.


----------



## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

sureshot006 said:


> There is significantly increased demand to bear hunt. Not just points. This document is from 2008. Demand is now higher than ever.
> 
> Giving everyone a tag that wants one would easily cause a large drop in populations (especially in the lower peninsula), which has been rising to the levels and hunter satisfaction we see now.
> 
> The survey addresses the desire for additional harvest in some areas and in a way, gages whether people think there is overpopulation or the opportunity for increased harvest without damaging hunter satisfaction.


I disagree. It showed that even with over the counter bear populations we're good. Your speculating that bear harvest would be greater that need be but not everyone will be successful especially with additional bait sites and woods being disrupted by hunters. The bear population should be less in several areas. The only area that would have to stay lottery that could very well be over hunted is Drummond Island being it is land locked and a very small area.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Hunters Edge said:


> I disagree. It showed that even with over the counter bear populations we're good. Your speculating that bear harvest would be greater that need be but not everyone will be successful especially with additional bait sites and woods being disrupted by hunters. The bear population should be less in several areas. The only area that would have to stay lottery that could very well be over hunted is Drummond Island being it is land locked and a very small area.


Lower populations would result in lower success rate and lower hunter satisfaction. The document also talked about distribution of hunters in regions. The current structure helps spread them out, thereby avoiding over harvest in particular regions.

Fill out the survey. You can put comments in there that you disagree with how things are done.


----------



## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

sureshot006 said:


> Lower populations would result in lower success rate and lower hunter satisfaction. The document also talked about distribution of hunters in regions. The current structure helps spread them out, thereby avoiding over harvest in particular regions.
> 
> Fill out the survey. You can put comments in there that you disagree with how things are done.


Already done, actually hours ago, before I even posted. Reality is they will do very little. They make more money with application fees. If the average wait or points is 13 your looking at a very expensive resident license if you add all those application fees plus the license fee.


----------



## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

I filled mine out when I received the email from the DNR.


----------



## otterc (Mar 20, 2016)

I have been trying to do the survey. When I type in my drivers license number it tells me it is an invalid id and to try another one. Does anyone have any ideas?


----------



## Fishindeer (Dec 29, 2017)

otterc said:


> I have been trying to do the survey. When I type in my drivers license number it tells me it is an invalid id and to try another one. Does anyone have any ideas?


 Check your last hunt or fish license make sure it’s the same.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

otterc said:


> I have been trying to do the survey. When I type in my drivers license number it tells me it is an invalid id and to try another one. Does anyone have any ideas?


I tried to get in that way too, just to see what other surveys are available, and it didn't work.


----------



## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Use this program.

http://www.highprogrammer.com/cgi-bin/uniqueid/dl_mi


----------



## buck11pt24 (Mar 11, 2007)

Hunters Edge said:


> Already done, actually hours ago, before I even posted. Reality is they will do very little. They make more money with application fees. If the average wait or points is 13 your looking at a very expensive resident license if you add all those application fees plus the license fee.


What’s you definition of expensive? I pay over $1000 a year on tags in other states. A Michigan nonresident bear is not expensive compared to hunting other states. 

Also I’d love to have a bear tag every year. Problem is that guys like me and my family know what we are doing and we would put a hurting on the population. So I will hunt when I have enough points to draw which should hopefully be at least every other year.


----------



## SMITTY1233 (Dec 8, 2003)

Been around bear hunting my entire life. Watched dad OTC hunt bears and even my older brother but I never was old enough before the lottery went into effect. I could not think of a worse management idea over going to OTC tags. Limited resource calls for limited hunting especially in certain areas of the state. I hate waiting ten years in my area but I understand why its necessary.


----------



## cotote wacker (Jun 12, 2012)

Hunters Edge said:


> They should have never went to the lottery system.


In the mid-to late 80's more and more over the counter licenses were being sold....also success numbers were going down....plan and simple bear hunting was becoming more popular.....
But the major reason anti-hunters were working to stop bear hunting first with dogs then go after all bear hunting....
With area quotas and hunter quotas it would be easer to prove the numbers of bears and a harvestable numbers are available....
LP in the early 70's you could buy over the counter tags but also needed to apply to hunt and limited permits were issued....

What kind of quality hunt would there be if 35'000 + over the counter tags were sold....sure wouldn't be fun and success rates would be less than 1%....bear number would drop fast....
Not like a deer where a doe will have 1-2 sometimes 3 fawns a year ...some sows don't breed until the 3-4 years old and then may have twins its very rare more....if they don't have a good fat supply for winter they will abort the fetus to save them selves....on the average a sow needs to weight 160 lbs going into hibernation.....


----------



## otterc (Mar 20, 2016)

I am with you Smitty. I am really concerned with the number of bears they are trying to take out of the Baldwin Unit. I have hunted the Baldwin Unit for thirty years and can already see the difference in numbers compared to ten years ago.


----------



## SMITTY1233 (Dec 8, 2003)

otterc said:


> I am with you Smitty. I am really concerned with the number of bears they are trying to take out of the Baldwin Unit. I have hunted the Baldwin Unit for thirty years and can already see the difference in numbers compared to ten years ago.


I will be shocked if Baldwin and Gladwin don't see the October archery only hunt extended into their respective management units.


----------



## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

This is just one thread why we need OTC tags. It's also should be about game management not to over populate a species to make it easier to hunt, easier to train dogs, or to create conflicts with other hunters or species.

https://www.michigan-sportsman.com/...bear-in-the-baldwin-unit.653813/#post-7507929


----------



## cotote wacker (Jun 12, 2012)

I'am hoping that barrels on Private Land is changed from being limited to 1" holes....have always been able to have any size hole on Private Land ....even on State Land shouldn't make a difference how big a hole or how many....100 yards from a road on State Land was only to benefit dog hunter and nobody else...
I've been saying ever since barrels were outlawed on State Land that there should be a license for barrels....charge $10 each limit 3 tags made of steel with a serial # must be welded or bolted to the barrel they could be bought at any DNR Office or Bear Check Station and need to be returned to the DNR or Bear Check Station 4 days after the bait barrel is no longer used or 4 days after season ends .....would make enforcing easier for officers.... don't return the tags you cannot buy a hunting - fishing license until you pay $100 Fine and or 3 years you cannot apply for a license or points....


----------



## FullQuiver (May 2, 2006)

otterc said:


> I am with you Smitty. I am really concerned with the number of bears they are trying to take out of the Baldwin Unit. I have hunted the Baldwin Unit for thirty years and can already see the difference in numbers compared to ten years ago.


You mean that they are removing too many? 

Because there is a stupid number of bears where I live and lots of huge bears... I don't have bird feeders or any food on my place other than my gardens and raspberry and strawberries.. I had bear different bear at least once a week in my yard in the daylight last summer... The numbers in the Baldwin unit very greatly from area to area. It's a large unit with greatly varied habitat and ownership mix.. I could kill a bear here and a decent one without breaking a sweat..


----------



## 12970 (Apr 19, 2005)

I can say that in Southern Baldwin Bear numbers have increased As I have had sows for the last 5 or 6 years with three and four clubs for almost ever year. Plus a few others roaming on my property I did not see much as to bears back when I purchased my property in Newaygo County 30 Years ago had a trail cam out back then when it was a 35 MM cam. then we got a glance of 1 a once a year and now I get many images of different bears, 5 years back while Deer Firearms Season though I have not see a Bear, my brother had a sow with 4 cubs climbing 1 of my apples trees for the apples! I have still not see a bear on my property but have see 1 driving in on the road within a 1/2 mile. I cannot say it would be easy to take a bear as my buddy got a bear license 3 maybe 4 years back was there every other day Baiting, hunted 5 days then found a guy that offered his property where captured bears have been release and he saw zero bears. But we have hounds practicing and seem to push the bears off come the time they can run the hounds before the season starts. I have see them along the roads near my property several times in the last 7 or 8 years. And once that happens the bears on my Cams all but disappear till mid Oct they slowly reappear and climbing my apple trees but mostly after dark in mid late Oct!

But as mentioned Baldwin is a large BMU and there is only 1 HUNT Period not like others where there is 3! And it takes at least 12 points maybe more now to get a license and that is a Long wait. I have 15 points but I do not have the time to do a Bear Hunt till I retire and that is 3 years off as I want to make the most of it because I doubt I will be able to do it again in the Baldwin BMU. As 12 years is a Long Time! And only 1 Hunt period is limiting to being successful unless you use a Guide and can spent a whole lot of Time if you are a Bait Hunter and having more than 1 bait site. And this will be for me a Once in a life time Bear Hunt but with most things the DNR can increase the licenses and that could take more bears near me and that is the chance I take Waiting but at Least I should get a Bear License I cannot say the same about a Michigan Bull Elk License and hunting in December is a lot harder in deep snow. But that is Michigan!
Newaygo1


----------



## otterc (Mar 20, 2016)

Never ceases to amaze me how some people think it is easy to fool a Michigan Black Bear into to being tagged. I know someone within 10 minutes fo Woodville who had three nice bear coming into his baits during August and half of September. Guess what happened once season opened. He hunted everyday all week long from two in the afternoon until dark. Tag soup was on menu.


----------



## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Hunters Edge said:


> I believe the lottery system did not get implemented tell 1995 maybe 1997.


Last year of over the counter tags was 88 i believe. Might of been 89....struggling to remember if I was a junior or senior that year. I was in highschool and I bought in the last year of over the counter tags. We had the lottery with no preference point system until year 2000. The preference point system started then.


----------



## Tilden Hunter (Jun 14, 2018)

sureshot006 said:


> Did you all get it from the DNR?
> 
> I completed the survey today. It asked whether you agree or disagree with newly proposed harvest and tag quotas, as well as questions about bait barrels.


I tried to fill out the survey today, but wasn't allowed to. Perhaps it was because I failed to apply this year.


----------



## FullQuiver (May 2, 2006)

otterc said:


> Never ceases to amaze me how some people think it is easy to fool a Michigan Black Bear into to being tagged. I know someone within 10 minutes fo Woodville who had three nice bear coming into his baits during August and half of September. Guess what happened once season opened. He hunted everyday all week long from two in the afternoon until dark. Tag soup was on menu.


Yeah and more than likely dog hunters ran his bear off.. I've seen more than my far share of that going on even on large sections of private. However it's more often just a function of most hunters having their eggs all in one basket... 

Bear aren't that difficult to get in front of a hunter.. I have helped more than a few guys kill bear here. Several of them were very good bear.. I am pretty sure I could do it most years... It's as much about figuring out people habits as it is bear habits around here...


----------



## Tilden Hunter (Jun 14, 2018)

Tilden Hunter said:


> Is it online and available to hunters that didn't get a tag this year?


It is online, but not available to me. Perhaps that was because I didn't apply this year.


----------

