# Trespassers kill 2 bears on my property caught on trailcam



## Runaway2 (Jan 25, 2013)

Pretty sad that they are teaching their kids all the bad habits that they shouldnt be. What a bunch of ignorant morons. Do people have any respect for other peoples property or belongings anymore?! Id for sure press charges. I unfortunately have the same problem with **** hunters on my property i just cant figure out who the guys are yet . In due time i will though.


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## Gill'in time (Apr 20, 2012)

phensway said:


> Dogs need to obey property lines as well or else they are subject to my coyote foot hold traps.....


Wow man hope I don't live near ya never know when yellow lab wants to run across a street. What a crap head comment !


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## Huntmich (Sep 4, 2008)

Don't think he's talking about the everyday dog. Right or wrong, if a dog running anything on my property it's probably getting shot. JMHO


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## perchyanker (Jan 26, 2011)

Gill'in time said:


> Wow man hope I don't live near ya never know when yellow lab wants to run across a street. What a crap head comment !


SO he can't trap on his own property because of somebody else's dog

Pretty sure he is just stating the facts


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## MontcalmCounty (Apr 1, 2013)

I Really want to hear the outcome. I don't suppose my idea of punishment would work, nonetheless they deserve it!


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## johnhunter247 (Mar 12, 2011)

Jim Orman said:


> what these people did was dead wrong, But not all hound Hunters have this mentality. I sometimes have my hounds run on private property but I would never kill a animal on private property. They cannot help where game runs but they should have gotten there hounds and left on foot. No trucks , four wheelers anything walk in without a gun get your hounds and leave. JMHO


No offense but wrong answer. No trespassing means your dogs too. If you can't keep control of them you shouldn't have them out there. If a guy works real hard on his place for deer and goes the extra mile to keep human scent to a minimum last thing he wants is you in all your gear that probably hasn't been dissented properly running around his property after a damn dog. The last thing you want is K9 scent all over your hunting land. That is completely irresponsible to say it's okay to let your dog loose and can't control him and then trample all through someone else's place leaving scent everywhere. Why do you think that's okay? Some people take there deer hunting seriously and dump tons of money to make there farm a whitetail paradise. The whole dog thing really burns me up!


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## Crayfish Trapper (Dec 19, 2010)

What scumbags.

I hope you have them prosecuted.


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## limige (Sep 2, 2005)

Hangem high bro!


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## geobum (Dec 19, 2010)

Gill'in time said:


> Wow man hope I don't live near ya never know when yellow lab wants to run across a street. What a crap head comment !


What a crap head dog owner


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## shoelessjoe (Dec 13, 2012)

johnhunter247 said:


> No offense but wrong answer. No trespassing means your dogs too. If you can't keep control of them you shouldn't have them out there. If a guy works real hard on his place for deer and goes the extra mile to keep human scent to a minimum last thing he wants is you in all your gear that probably hasn't been dissented properly running around his property after a damn dog. The last thing you want is K9 scent all over your hunting land. That is completely irresponsible to say it's okay to let your dog loose and can't control him and then trample all through someone else's place leaving scent everywhere. Why do you think that's okay? Some people take there deer hunting seriously and dump tons of money to make there farm a whitetail paradise. The whole dog thing really burns me up!


 I honestly don't think that "I" could add a single sentence, word, term etc that can make your post any more accurate, you hit the bulls eye both morally and legally IMO, I have to give you a "YA THAT^. I agree wholeheartedly. Not to mention any bucks they may have bumped that could have ran into trouble somewhere during their escape and taken the OP's "perfect specimen of a Pope and Young record book buck. Just too many possible bad outcomes for the poster. GOOD POST John, Ya that!!!!


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## shoelessjoe (Dec 13, 2012)

Hey brotha, just looking close at the "photo's" is the date stamp of 16 JAN 2011 accurate? Are you actually 2 years into this thing without any relief? What have the CO's said about (w/o divulging sensitive info) the odds of this going all the way to a "hang'n" for these mutts? And another thing, was your property properly posted? Again, if this is asking too much just say so, Ill understand. Thanks. If it were me this happened to and had ID on them I don't think I could handle it as well as you have to date, I would probably just be getting out about now if you know what I mean


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## Waz_51 (Jan 10, 2010)

shoelessjoe said:


> Hey brotha, just looking close at the "photo's" is the date stamp of 16 JAN 2011 accurate? Are you actually 2 years into this thing without any relief? What have the CO's said about (w/o divulging sensitive info) the odds of this going all the way to a "hang'n" for these mutts? And another thing, was your property properly posted? Again, if this is asking too much just say so, Ill understand. Thanks. If it were me this happened to and had ID on them I don't think I could handle it as well as you have to date, I would probably just be getting out about now if you know what I mean


All of your questions were answered in the OP


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## shoelessjoe (Dec 13, 2012)

Waz_51 said:


> All of your questions were answered in the OP


 I've had my head in books up to my neck the last month and 18 hours a day the last 3 weeks studying for my CPCO Credentials, I can't even see straight about now. Every time I need a break I've been coming here to change up and take a break to get my mind off the exams and catch a break. Sorry if I've wasted anybody's time the past few days, not my intent!!!! LMAO, what a embarrassment. I'll read everything a bit closer from now on, WOW! LOL!:tdo12::yikes::lol:


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## ID&C (Jan 11, 2011)

My dad has had numerous run ins with bear hunters in the Lewiston area and none of them have been pleasant! Our drive in is clearly posted at the road and at a couple more spots on the way in. He has even had the wives/girlfriends run there mouths! And it wasn't the same group each time! All I can say is that the ones my dad has encountered definitely gave hound hunters a bad name and did act like a bunch of derelicts.


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## deepwoods (Nov 18, 2002)

That is unbelievable. I hope they pay dearly. They obviously did not care one bit whose land they were on. Slob hunter at it's finest. That type of thing will lead to it's end IMHO. 


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## Jim Orman (Aug 21, 2012)

there are different scenario with these people they are dead wrong as I said in earlier post. When iam hunting on state land or land I have permission to hunt and my hounds run game on another private piece I will unload my gun get my dogs out of there as quick as I can. dogs and game don't read and my dogs do handle great. But if landowner shoots my dog or dogs that is a whole different scenario. I will call the police then my Lawyer and ther will be a lawsuit and I put each of my hounds at 3000 to 5000 a piece. far more than a trespass ticket that I will gladly pay. Not a threat a reality. Purpose of this post to landowners be careful if you decide to pull trigger cause there will be consequences believe me


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## LoBrass (Oct 16, 2007)

This post saddens me for a couple reasons. Trespassing by people is bad news. Unfortunately the dogs do not know better and someone threatening to shoot a dog is troubling.

The DNR is pretty specific about what to do if your dogs move onto private property and the protocol is cut and dry. Believe it or not, a dog owner MAY travel onto private property to remove his dog. The key is that they quickly REMOVE the dog and leave!!

These trespassers didn't follow any of that protocol so they should be fined heavily.

I say this because shooting dogs for "trespassing" will get you in FAR more trouble than the trespasser or his unknowing dog.

To the OP I really hope you make these poachers pay.


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## FishKilla419 (Feb 22, 2008)

shoelessjoe said:


> I honestly don't think that "I" could add a single sentence, word, term etc that can make your post any more accurate, you hit the bulls eye both morally and legally IMO, I have to give you a "YA THAT^. I agree wholeheartedly. Not to mention any bucks they may have bumped that could have ran into trouble somewhere during their escape and taken the OP's "perfect specimen of a Pope and Young record book buck. Just too many possible bad outcomes for the poster. GOOD POST John, Ya that!!!!


How bout when that pope and young they bump out takes cover in the trespassers poaching field. Guaranteed those low life scum bags poach deer year round to feed their hounds. 

Here fishy fishy..


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## dmrbigeshott (Apr 18, 2010)

bowhunter19 said:


> I don't disagree with anything you said but how did that ruin your bow opener?


obviously you don't take deer hunting very seriously. A bunch of stinky, smelly people and dogs walking through your property making as much noise as possible shooting and gutting animals? You don't think that will mess up a stand site?!?!?!?!??!?!? 

Trespassers and poachers are the scum of the earth and I hope you prosecute these idiots to the fullest extent of the law.


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## shoelessjoe (Dec 13, 2012)

FishKilla419 said:


> How bout when that pope and young they bump out takes cover in the trespassers poaching field. Guaranteed those low life scum bags poach deer year round to feed their hounds.
> 
> Here fishy fishy..


 Just one of many scenarios that can go bad for nobody else but Singinghills3, IMO He (SH3) is the only one who suffers when things like this happen. What did he do to deserve it? Put together the dough (after working hard), pay taxes, work the property, just time alone in maintenance, hey, could go on and on. But My GOD not one but two Bears, w/o a conscience. Nuff said, Hang'em.


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## spznation (Oct 19, 2011)

bansheejoel said:


> If I saw a dog running down deer the decision would be easy for me, I'd shoot it. If it was just wondering around on my property that would be a easy decision as well, I'd let it walk.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Banshee I am from Coopersville...small world.


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## boomer_x7 (Dec 19, 2008)

spznation said:


> I don't normally chime in on a lot of these...
> 
> When I was a kid my dog got into chasing around the neighbors hogs and he shot him. My dad apologised and there were no hard feelings. Even though I was only a kid, ten or so I understood it was my responsibility to keep control of my animal. Two other neighbors have issued open instructions to shoot their dogs if they interfere with our hunting. Of course these neighbors are farmers and inherently understand ones responsibility to control their animals. This is one of those laws that absolutely boggles my mind. If you can't control your dogs do not let them loose. I went to MTU and while living in Houghton we asked a CO what we should do about a wolf we were seeing. Off the record he said "S S S shoot shovel and shut up." The same advice is fitting here. If you want to keep your dog keep it off my property.


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## fishineveryminuteofit (Mar 31, 2011)

Good luck with your legal process. It will be a chore to follow through with it to the end. Stay strong. I just cant believe they didn't see/steal the cam. Its a good thing you've id-ed them, unfortunately that must mean u know who they are (neighbors or something).


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## 100 Grain (Aug 24, 2013)

Yes the trespassers did wrong. But its not the hounds fault....they're doing what they're trained to do ........its strictly the dog owner and they're mentality to make a poor decisions as they did here. Not all houndsmen are bad. My good friends run hounds and do things correct. Most will retrive the dogs off pvt land, sometimes you have to wait for the bear to tree. You're Never gonna stop hounds from running from state land to pvt land.


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## Huntmich (Sep 4, 2008)

bansheejoel said:


> If I saw a dog running down deer the decision would be easy for me, I'd shoot it. If it was just wondering around on my property that would be a easy decision as well, I'd let it walk.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Ding ding ding, we have a winner. 


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## FullQuiver (May 2, 2006)

I've had many run ins with many different bear hound hunters, and never had a positive experience with a single one of them. Not one positive experience. If there are any good houndsmen running bear here in my area it would be news to me. They come in on a postage stamp of federal land and then cut their dogs loose knowing that they will end up all over private land that no one wants them on and they do not care. I have heard that I'm retrieving my dog bull so many times it makes me want to throw up. CO's do nothing and yet it continues. These laws are in dire need of revisiting. Laws need to be tightened up to protect property rights and penalties need to be more severe for those who hunt like this.............


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## kingfisher 11 (Jan 26, 2000)

I was a **** hunter in the late 70's-mid 80's up in Northern MI. Once I moved to Saginaw County I just could not hunt with dogs and feel good about it. To many times they ended up on someone elses property. I finally just gave it up.. I enjoyed it but, if you can't do it legally then you should not do it in the area. As a land owner your rights supercede all the houndsman in the world.

What you have with many of these houndsmen, is this thinking....."I have been doing it for years and damn if I am going to change... I use to be able to run this whole area and no one said a word.

If your dog does go on someone else property you best not take a gun and get your dog out of there as fast as you can. I don't hold to anyone shooting a dog. Once you do that, you are no better than the trespasser. You both should go to jail.

We need trespass laws like they have in KS. They do have problem with hounds out there to. Its just easier to convict. I heard the same comment out there as I heard here.......been doing it for "ever"


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

boomer_x7 said:


> What if they dont have a dog?


Most trespassers don't have a dog. But many trespassers say they were looking for their dog when questioned. When my trespasser told them that, the prosecutor asked him where the dog was, he said it was in Georgia. When they asked him where he lost it, he said it jumped out of his car at the wine store 1.5 miles away from where I photographed him.

So much for retrieving a hunting dog. Just a totally fabricated story.

It is a law that was designed for the 19th century, not the 21st century.


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## Padilen (Jun 18, 2013)

Huntmich said:


> Ding ding ding, we have a winner.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


No it is illegal.


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

kingfisher 11 said:


> I was a **** hunter in the late 70's-mid 80's up in Northern MI. Once I moved to Saginaw County I just could not hunt with dogs and feel good about it. To many times they ended up on someone elses property. I finally just gave it up.. I enjoyed it but, if you can't do it legally then you should not do it in the area. As a land owner your rights supercede all the houndsman in the world.


Finally we hear from a responsible dog owner. If you know when you unhook the dog from a leash that you have even a small probability of the dog going on someone's property where you have to trespass to retrieve it, don't unsnap the leash. I applaud you king.


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## limige (Sep 2, 2005)

You people need to stop bickering. They were tresspassers. Whether or not dogs were involved is irrelevant. 

They weren't retrieving a dog they took two bears! Tresspassers plain and simple. Hope get it nailed to the wall.

But yes. Michigan's laws state if you can't control your dog it must be leashed. Plain and simple no opinions involved its the law


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## flying wasp (Aug 22, 2006)

farmlegend said:


> Consider the possibility that it is still quite worth doing if you can afford to write the check.  Come to think of it, if someone were to start a legal defense fund dedicated to the defense of those charged with dispatching marauding dogs on their properties, I would write a fat one and be sure to attend the fundraisers and banquets.
> 
> 
> It is indeed sad, insofar that hound hunting for bear and coyotes, an entirely legitimate and rewarding endeavor when practiced in an ethical manner, is likely on its way out. On its way out because of scumbags such as those featured in this thread. I'm sure the ethical houndsmen out there are just as, if not more, infuriated by their actions than some of us are.
> ...


 
This saved me from typing the EXACT reponse.Thanks Legend!


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## adamhartwell (Nov 4, 2011)

This type of behavior down right disgusts me. This group of morons obviously has no regard or respect for rules and more importantly private property. In really hope they get what they deserve.


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## Dynrat (Jun 13, 2003)

bucksnbows said:


> So do you expect respect for your dog from the property owner?
> 
> 
> I would never shoot a dog that happens to run through my place, not the dogs fault his owner is an idiot who can't be responsible enough to understand that 10 acres is not enough property to run dogs. He may be legally allowed to retrieve his dog..........he also will be legally allowed to retrieve his teeth from my shoe:lol:


I would add that I would not shoot a hound hunter's dog for just running through my property on a normal day. My neighbors dogs have run around my yard several times. However, if my kids are out on the property and some dog I don't know goes running at them barking and yelping he is going down. I love dogs, but I love my kids more and I'm not taking any chances. And no matter what any of you dog hunters think under those circumstances I won't pay a dime.


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## lang49 (Aug 1, 2005)

One relevant fact that few seem to understand: according to the law, in order to retrieve a hound on private land, you have to leave your gun at the line. It doesn't matter what a hunter claims to be doing on private land- if he possesses a firearm, he is in violation, period!


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## Wildcatdad (Dec 24, 2009)

Where are the responsible dog hunters? 
I am pretty sure that dog hunters know other dog hunters and someone knows who these guys are. These guys and others like them are going to put an end to your sport. There are a whole lot more deer hunters than there are dog hunters. You guys need friends in the hunting community, not what you are hearing in this thread. If the dog hunters don't start policing themselves, they can kiss thier sport goodbye. You already have the downstaters that live in a different world than you do, and don't see the point in chasing bears with dogs. Now you are turning the biggest hunting community (deer hunters) against you.
Yes these guys are poachers, but this whole thread points out a sore spot that is going to ruin the dog hunting sport. The dog hunters should have a thread in thier forum with the title "these scumbags are going to ruin our sport" with pictures.


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## thetreestandguy (Dec 16, 2005)

farmlegend said:


> Even if these bums are caught and prosecuted, our laws do not provide for severe enough penalties for the likes of them. I'm totally down with public flogging, caning, and decades of forced labor for the perpetrators and all of their wiling accomplices, including their broads.


Was thinking the same thing FL. I can no longer read those pages in magazines dedicated CO activity because I shake my head at the penalties, a mere nuisance to those offenders. I'm no legal expert but if this was in season is it actually considered poaching? If not then this group is going to get a couple of tickets valued at less than the price of one dog, not enough to alter their future behavior.

Then there's the whole screwing with the locals gig. When your home during the week are they going to burn the cabin down? Steal everything? This is a bad situation with bad players and perhaps no satisfying ending.


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

I guarantee some of the individuals in those pic's are members on the site here... Anyone been over to the Bear Forum? :lol:


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## wartfroggy (Jan 25, 2007)

William H Bonney said:


> I guarantee some of the individuals in those pic's are members on the site here... Anyone been over to the Bear Forum? :lol:


 I was thinking that exact same thing while reading all of this. Wouldn't it be great to see one of those guys from the trail cam pics post up a few pics in the Bear forum.


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

Except for some large tracks of state land, is there any place someone could run bear dogs and not cross property lines? I can't see letting dogs go on private land given the typical size of an individual parcel.

The OP should look into this. It's from the recreational trespass laws. It may really pay if brought against everyone in the pics:

*324.73109 Violation of part; cause of action by property owner.*

Sec. 73109.
The owner of property on which a violation of this part is committed, or his or her lessee, may bring a cause of action against a person who violates this part for $250.00 or actual property damages, whichever is greater, and actual and reasonable attorney fees.

Here is the page from the MCLs:

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(e0...SPASS-731&highlight=recreational AND trespass


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## kfileccia12 (Apr 10, 2012)

Dynrat said:


> No prison here. I asked a friend who is a CO, and my cousin who is a cop about it this morning. If they are unlawfully on my property and I have any question to the safety of my family I am lawfully justified to dispatch them. Once again I'll state though. This is only if they are near or approaching my kids.


As said above, hounds in pursuit of game CLEARLY want nothing to do with you or your children. You'd have to be pretty stupid to mistake a hound wagging it's tail, nose down, and barking on track for an aggressive dog on the attack. Not to mention, you can hear them coming from a mile away, which would tell anyone with a hint of common sense that the dog is pre-occupied with something else.

Also, you state that if the dog is "unlawfully on your property..." as if I could give my dog a plat map and tell him to avoid certain parcels of land. FYI: There is nothing illegal about hunting dogs running through a piece of private property. As long as the dog is put down legally on land that the dog owner owns or has permission to be on, then there is nothing unlawful about the dog running across a piece of private land. That being said, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are simply finding whatever excuse you can to tell hound hunters you can shoot their dog. 

I've never had a problem with a landowner and will never disrespect a landowner or his/her property. However, if you shoot my dog then be prepared for a rude awakening.


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## Waz_51 (Jan 10, 2010)

kfileccia12 said:


> As said above, hounds in pursuit of game CLEARLY want nothing to do with you or your children. You'd have to be pretty stupid to mistake a hound wagging it's tail, nose down, and barking on track for an aggressive dog on the attack. Not to mention, you can hear them coming from a mile away, which would tell anyone with a hint of common sense that the dog is pre-occupied with something else.
> 
> Also, you state that if the dog is "unlawfully on your property..." as if I could give my dog a plat map and tell him to avoid certain parcels of land. FYI: There is nothing illegal about hunting dogs running through a piece of private property. As long as the dog is put down legally on land that the dog owner owns or has permission to be on, then there is nothing unlawful about the dog running across a piece of private land. That being said, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are simply finding whatever excuse you can to tell hound hunters you can shoot their dog.
> 
> I've never had a problem with a landowner and will never disrespect a landowner or his/her property. However, if you shoot my dog then be prepared for a rude awakening.


The fact that you think that it is ok for a dog to be on land that it doesn't have permission to be on is very telling...


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## sjk984 (Jan 4, 2010)

kfileccia12 said:


> As said above, hounds in pursuit of game CLEARLY want nothing to do with you or your children. You'd have to be pretty stupid to mistake a hound wagging it's tail, nose down, and barking on track for an aggressive dog on the attack. Not to mention, you can hear them coming from a mile away, which would tell anyone with a hint of common sense that the dog is pre-occupied with something else.
> 
> Also, you state that if the dog is "unlawfully on your property..." as if I could give my dog a plat map and tell him to avoid certain parcels of land. FYI: There is nothing illegal about hunting dogs running through a piece of private property. As long as the dog is put down legally on land that the dog owner owns or has permission to be on, then there is nothing unlawful about the dog running across a piece of private land. That being said, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are simply finding whatever excuse you can to tell hound hunters you can shoot their dog.
> 
> I've never had a problem with a landowner and will never disrespect a landowner or his/her property. However, if you shoot my dog then be prepared for a rude awakening.


Face it if u can't control your animals don't run them near private land. I run my dogs all over state land and have NEVER HAD TO RETRIEVE THEM OFF SOMEONE ELSES LAND. my dogs listen.

You are absolutely right it not the dogs fault its the dumb***** owners 

Anybody that uses ignorance as an excuse has no business carrying a weapon. 

RESPONSIBILITY. Some people have it others just need to stay home

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## phensway (Nov 30, 2004)

srconnell22 said:


> I am a hound hunter. I have dogs that run bear/bobcat and bear/coyote. I have never been involved in any trespassing issues with landowners. I routinely get stopped along the roads by landowners asking if I have a chase going on, and telling me where they've been seeing bear or tracks or to kill every coyote I see. Usually I can tell them to sit right here for a little bit and they'll see a bear run across the road, which they love. I can't think of one negative interaction with a landowner and myself.
> 
> I am not involved in any of the issues the gentleman that first posted has. I feel bad for what he has to go through, and feel that he is 100% right in prosecuting the trespassers involved as he sees fit. My guess is he is well on his way to that and has already provided the evidence to his local CO.
> 
> ...


Dude, that statement makes you lower than the people who said they would shoot the dog! are you serious? Congrats, you sank to their level!


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## BIRD BARREL (Aug 14, 2010)

I understand trespassing is a huge deal in Michigan and if people want any excuse to shoot an animal for trespassing. I would have to say since all wildlife is owned by the state of Michigan then they are illegally trespassing. Does this mean I can leagally shoot game for trespassing I don't think so . yes I do believe you have every right to protect your property from those people and damages they may casuse. I have had multiple times when hunt that I have dogs come out on me while hunting and never gave a thought of shooting them because they ruined my hunt . And on this same hunts they never bothered the deer activity same goes for coyotes . I shoot a ten point on the same deer run that I shoot coyote ten min earlier that same day . 

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## Jim Orman (Aug 21, 2012)

No it dont he is a serious as a heartattack in what he says. This post got way out of hand concerning the threatening of dogs, trucks, People. In this day and age everyone better be careful on actions they take. The truth of the matter is myself as a houndsman is Iam pissed off as anyone what these guys did. That gives everyone a bad name and definately could jepordise my hunting in future. I hope this gentleman gets what he deserves and that is justice. But when people take there law into there own hands usually it back fires. You then realise you are not as innocent as you believed you were.


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

Feed the dogs they are probably hungry. Hang the hunters.


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## Padilen (Jun 18, 2013)

kfileccia12 said:


> As said above, hounds in pursuit of game CLEARLY want nothing to do with you or your children. You'd have to be pretty stupid to mistake a hound wagging it's tail, nose down, and barking on track for an aggressive dog on the attack. Not to mention, you can hear them coming from a mile away, which would tell anyone with a hint of common sense that the dog is pre-occupied with something else.
> 
> Also, you state that if the dog is "unlawfully on your property..." as if I could give my dog a plat map and tell him to avoid certain parcels of land. FYI: There is nothing illegal about hunting dogs running through a piece of private property. As long as the dog is put down legally on land that the dog owner owns or has permission to be on, then there is nothing unlawful about the dog running across a piece of private land. That being said, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are simply finding whatever excuse you can to tell hound hunters you can shoot their dog.
> 
> I've never had a problem with a landowner and will never disrespect a landowner or his/her property. However, if you shoot my dog then be prepared for a rude awakening.


To shot a dog you have to prove it is threatening you or your kids.
People who raise animals for profit can shot if the can prove harassing animals.
The person who is shooting at a dog running by his children is more likely to shoot a kid. 
Some areas shooting a firearm is a crime in its self, when by people, homes ect.
I love reading posts about how somebody is going to "solve" a problem by committing a crime.


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## ratherboutside (Mar 19, 2010)

Can someone explain to me this scenario in which a split second decision.has to be made to shoot a dog that might be attacking your kids. specifically address why you have a loaded firearm in the yard with you while your kids are playing. then are you shooting over your kids at the dogs or have you moved the kids thus making it not a split second decision? Did the hounds howling and the bear that also just ran by the kids not lead you to reassess the situation ahead of the dogs being there? These hero cowboy scenarios people think up are unbelievable. You are not Ralphie from the Christmas story and the dogs are not black Bart. Maybe come back to the real world and grow up for a day Peter pan. 

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## MontcalmCounty (Apr 1, 2013)

phensway said:


> Dude, that statement makes you lower than the people who said they would shoot the dog! are you serious? Congrats, you sank to their level!


How so?


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## kingfisher 11 (Jan 26, 2000)

I find it very funny that some would feel threatened by a hound. Your biggest concern should be how much they are going to slobber on you! A good dog on a track has tunnel vision. It would be like your wife having a platium credit card with no limit at a high end mall. You might as not even try talk to her.


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## flockshot (Feb 23, 2007)

am I the only one who really sees the issue of tresspassers being the real deal here? My only hope is the OP hasnt lost intrest in keeping us bickering idiots in the loop as to what has been done to these people who regardless of what animals/tools they used to tresspass and illegally take game on his property. I for one maintain that we as sportsman , are our own worst enemy. knock it off fellas, crap happens, handle yourself in the way that best fits the situation as you would want someone to handle it with you. THAT SIMPLE!!!

To the OP! please keep us updated..I hope to god these guys get at least some form of punishment! And im sorry you had to find this on your camera.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Waz_51 said:


> it doesn't matter how many points they have, a 1.5 year old could have 12 points...its those 4.5 and older bucks that will VACATE once they sense any sort of human intrusion and never return


False in all accounts. We are all over our hunting land year round. uring season, after season, does not matter. The deer are always there. I have shot 3 wall mounters by anyones standard off this property doing this very thing. Hell, today we were out with the bulldozer clearing autumn olive right where I will be hunting today. The deer don't care. It is those TV shows that have everyone thinking you need to wear that scent lock crap and have all those gadgets to kill a stupid wood goat. The deer get used to traffic. The small ones and the big ones. As long as you are not trampling their prime bedding area every day you have nothing to worry about.


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## ratherboutside (Mar 19, 2010)

craigrh13 said:


> False in all accounts. We are all over our hunting land year round. uring season, after season, does not matter. The deer are always there. I have shot 3 wall mounters by anyones standard off this property doing this very thing. Hell, today we were out with the bulldozer clearing autumn olive right where I will be hunting today. The deer don't care. It is those TV shows that have everyone thinking you need to wear that scent lock crap and have all those gadgets to kill a stupid wood goat. The deer get used to traffic. The small ones and the big ones. As long as you are not trampling their prime bedding area every day you have nothing to worry about.


I agree. Mature bucks will not abandon there favorite bedding areas easily from what I have seen. They may shift their patterns slightly for a while but if its not a regular invasion they will soon return to normal patterns. This of course is all from my own personal observations. Others may have had different luck. But I am sure we will find out soon how stupid we are for trying to encourage the original poster that in our experience not all is lost. We will be reminded that we only kill yearlings and aren't serious hunters. 

Sent from my C771 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

ratherboutside said:


> I agree. Mature bucks will not abandon there favorite bedding areas easily from what I have seen. They may shift their patterns slightly for a while but if its not a regular invasion they will soon return to normal patterns. This of course is all from my own personal observations. Others may have had different luck. But I am sure we will find out soon how stupid we are for trying to encourage the original poster that in our experience not all is lost. We will be reminded that we only kill yearlings and aren't serious hunters.
> 
> Sent from my C771 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


I agree with your post, but you cannot argue with the great wanabe hunters here if you know what I mean. I have seen the same thing as you but each area is different. Some people act like these deer have never seen or smelled a dog or smoke or whatever. They just adapt to the noise and a few days go back to a regular pattern. The hunting shows don't tell them that because they are pushing something for sale. Don't get me wrong trespassing is still wrong


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## ratherboutside (Mar 19, 2010)

Scout 2 said:


> I agree with your post, but you cannot argue with the great wanabe hunters here if you know what I mean. I have seen the same thing as you but each area is different. Some people act like these deer have never seen or smelled a dog or smoke or whatever. They just adapt to the noise and a few days go back to a regular pattern. The hunting shows don't tell them that because they are pushing something for sale. Don't get me wrong trespassing is still wrong


Agreed. The idea that people and dogs are not something deer have to adjust to in their environment is foolish to me. Trespassing happens much more frequently than anyone realizes in my experience and its an stupid problem that no one should have to deal with but see it all the time in my hunting travels. Yet people still kill mature deer on the property never even knowing they were wronged. Then there is the stray dogs that travel peoples property. Most go undetected and people still kill mature deer on the property. Unless you dont work and stay at your property all day, assume there are trespassers. But then again what do I know. If I knew half as much as some people here think they know about deer, I would know twice as much as anyone in the world. 
Sent from my C771 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

I thought I was the only one. This year will be my 50th year deer hunting and I have probably saw more mature bucks in one day than many have all season, but that was a few years ago. I have not shot a buck since 2006 and this was by my choice I would rather hunt the mature does anymore. The one place I use to see many large bucks was in the city limits of GR and dogs did not bother them


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Scout 2 said:


> I agree with your post, but you cannot argue with the great wanabe hunters here if you know what I mean. I have seen the same thing as you but each area is different. Some people act like these deer have never seen or smelled a dog or smoke or whatever. They just adapt to the noise and a few days go back to a regular pattern. The hunting shows don't tell them that because they are pushing something for sale. Don't get me wrong trespassing is still wrong


One of the best hunters I know smokes in the tree stand. He wears no scent lock crap, does not where the most modern camoflage, does not where rubber boots, put his clothes in a dang tub during transportation, none of that crap. He knows where to be though. Location and luck are 98% of wood goat hunting, being able to hit the dang thing is the other 2%.


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## NoWake (Feb 7, 2006)

Waz_51 said:


> it doesn't matter how many points they have, a 1.5 year old could have 12 points...its those 4.5 and older bucks that will VACATE once they sense any sort of human intrusion and never return


Eureka!! You've exposed the secret of mature bucks. Everyone tries to argue that there's so very few of them in Michigan, but in reality according to your very profound conclusion, they are all just stacked up on some property that has NEVER had any sort of human intrusion. Instead of lobbying for APRs we need to be lobbying for the ability to use drones for scouting and hunting. :lol:


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## Dynrat (Jun 13, 2003)

ratherboutside said:


> Can someone explain to me this scenario in which a split second decision.has to be made to shoot a dog that might be attacking your kids. specifically address why you have a loaded firearm in the yard with you while your kids are playing. then are you shooting over your kids at the dogs or have you moved the kids thus making it not a split second decision? Did the hounds howling and the bear that also just ran by the kids not lead you to reassess the situation ahead of the dogs being there? These hero cowboy scenarios people think up are unbelievable. You are not Ralphie from the Christmas story and the dogs are not black Bart. Maybe come back to the real world and grow up for a day Peter pan.
> 
> Sent from my C771 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


It's called a CPL. I have a gun on me while I shop for groceries. And yes of course my kids safety comes first. I would never shoot in their direction.

I'll state again as I have several times before. If the dogs don't bother my kids then they are in no danger. My statement was only meant because I don't like the "absolutes" of "if you shoot my dog I'll sue" or "you'll go to prison". That may be true for the guy who shoots your dogs just because he thinks he can, just because he is a sick bugger, just because he doesn't want them there. I don't agree with that one either, private property or not. I am only saying that I will protect my kids against unkown dogs on my property *if I feel the kids are in danger*. I understand what those of you with dogs feel about protecting your dogs. I also understand when you say that your dogs on a trail won't want anything to do with anybody at the house, but not all hunting dogs are created equal. Some of them are unfriendly toward strangers, some get aggressive if you get in their way, etc. and when your dog comes out on my property I don't have time to get to know it. Like I also said if the kids aren't around the dog has nothing to fear, and even if they are and he doesn't give me any reason he also has nothing to fear.


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## Scott K (Aug 26, 2008)

I don't know why we arguing about a point that 99.999% of people agree about. Of course if kids are in danger from a dog then shooting the dog is an appropriate response.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

NoWake said:


> Eureka!! You've exposed the secret of mature bucks. Everyone tries to argue that there's so very few of them in Michigan, but in reality according to your very profound conclusion, they are all just stacked up on some property that has NEVER had any sort of human intrusion. Instead of lobbying for APRs we need to be lobbying for the ability to use drones for scouting and hunting. :lol:


:lol::lol:

FWIW, I've lost count of the times that I've killed a nice buck after tracking one of the neighbor's right by my stands the night before. I realized that it bothered me more than the deer. 
But what does 40 years experience mean compared to the Wizard Of Waz


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

My friend has 80 acres in Clare with no habitat improvements at all on this property. Three weeks ago we were building new elevated blinds,,, ATV's, chainsaws, cordless drills and sawsalls, post hole diggers,,, basically the kitchen sink. We stood admiring our 1/2 day of hard work, when literally less than 25 yards from us,,, up stands this beautiful 8 point. He had been laying there on this tiny patch of grass for 5 HOURS!!! :SHOCKED: He was either a real heavy sleeper,, or just didn't care. :lol:


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## Drop Tine (Aug 29, 2006)

Wow. Just wow. This entire thread makes me sad for us hunters. I haven't posted or even visited this site for awhile, but something about the thread made me click on it. There is a whole range of emotions contained in this thread. First of all to the OP: I really hope you catch the tresspassers. Not just so you can prosecute them, but so that their kids might realize how wrong the tresspassers really are. This thread has been hijacked by the pro-dog vs anti-dog people, and I hope that you won't let it distract you. Please catch the tresspassers and prosecute them to the laws full extent. Secondly to the dog owners: I own a golden retriever myself. I always keep him leashed. The reason is that I feel for the property owners. You have all admitted that you know that dogs can't read signs. Thinking logically then, why on earth would you let your dog run free knowing that he/she might tresspass? This is on YOU - the dog owner. Be more responsible. Lastly, to the dog owners that equate a dog with humans - please be real. We all absolutely love our dogs. But please stop saying things like "my dog is like my kids" or "I value my dogs life as much as I do my families lives". Dogs are not people. I don't care if your pooch cost $50,000 or more. Dogs are not people. To those that think they are as valuable, you have a warped sense of reality.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

> William H Bonney said:
> 
> 
> > My friend has 80 acres in Clare with no habitat
> ...


Some in the Clare area claim that the old spikes are the ones that need culling. An APR allows for the taking of dumb 8 pts.


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## TimBuckTwo (Jan 3, 2009)

One day we will have satellite game cameras for a reasonable price. Imagine being able to call your local CO and say that at this very moment there are illegal trespassers on your property killing bears, you know it for sure because you just received a picture text from your game camera. That will be awesome!


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

TimBuckTwo said:


> One day we will have satellite game cameras for a reasonable price. Imagine being able to call your local CO and say that at this very moment there are illegal trespassers on your property killing bears, you know it for sure because you just received a picture text from your game camera. That will be awesome!


If I was the op I would invest in a couple immediately....


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## Drop Tine (Aug 29, 2006)

srconnell22 said:


> That being said, for the keyboard tough guys that talk about shooting dogs, or pulling collars; you wouldn't want the hell that would come down if you ever layed a hand on my dogs.


You sound like you are one of those "keyboard tough guys".



srconnell22 said:


> Shooting one of my dogs will be handled in the same manner as if you shot my son. I am not a derelict, I am not without means. I have the financial means and legal counsel to drag you through court for the next twenty years if thats what it takes to take everything you own and every right you have away from you. If that doesn't work, I'll handle the issue myself.


 You sir, are a derelict. You are everything that is wrong with dog owners. The fact that you equate your dogs life with your sons life proves that you you have a skewed sense of reality. To top it off, you go on with a threat that you will "handle the issue yourself" if the law doesn't handle it quite like you thought. You are a loose cannon and need to "reel it in" for a moment and think about what you just posted.



srconnell22 said:


> Bottom line: I am a responsible dog hunter. I hunt without issue, and a ton of positive interactions with landowners every year. Don't touch my dogs unless you want to watch everything you own and love disappear.


If you allow your dogs to tresspass, you are not a responsible dog hunter. You can keep saying it, but it doesn't change the fact that if you allow your dogs to tresspass, you are not responsible.



srconnell22 said:


> I hope I've made myself crystal clear.


Oh yes, you have. Crystal clear.


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## Orlando fireman (Nov 17, 2008)

sad,sad,sad! This problem is everywhere, even in Georgia where I hunt. Our problem was they were picking up their dogs and putting them over our fences (hog wire fence). They claimed to have been "just retrieving their dogs and when we showed the game warden pics of them picking them up and putting them over the fence, he charged them with everything. Ended up costing them thousands of dollars. Best of luck and please prosecute, it appears they don't give a rats behind about your property


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## Waz_51 (Jan 10, 2010)

Some of you guys are pretty funny...go stomp around the woods in a mature bucks living space and see what happens...I won't be holding my breath for the hero shots...


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

QDMAMAN said:


> Some in the Clare area claim that the old spikes are the ones that need culling. An APR allows for the taking of dumb 8 pts.


We did our culling during the Youth Hunt... Although I wouldn't consider these deer "old",,, or even "spikes" for that matter. Well,,, two of 'em were spikes,,, the other three I would classify as "nubbers"...:lol:


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

thetreestandguy said:


> Was thinking the same thing FL. I can no longer read those pages in magazines dedicated CO activity because I shake my head at the penalties, a mere nuisance to those offenders. I'm no legal expert but if this was in season is it actually considered poaching? If not then this group is going to get a couple of tickets valued at less than the price of one dog, not enough to alter their future behavior.


Bingo. The penalties typically levied are laughable, IMO. $100-$500? Just a cost of doing business. Ought to be 50x that.


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## fishindude644 (Jan 3, 2001)

AntiHuntersLoveMe said:


> Its impossible to keep trespassers out, no matter what you do or where you live... SAD
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


 This is one of the main reasons I am losing intrest in hunting. When you have to make a long drive,take time off work etc.etc to go hunting then find out someone has already been hunting your stand or stole it on private property really is getting old.


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## srconnell22 (Aug 27, 2007)

Waz_51 said:


> Some of you guys are pretty funny...go stomp around the woods in a mature bucks living space and see what happens...I won't be holding my breath for the hero shots...


Look up the name Andre D'acquisto and learn how he killed a few of his giant typicals. You may be a little surprised. 

Let me give you a synopsis...he walks directly into their bedding area and intentionally boots them out. He then sets up and waits for them to circle back downwind a couple of hours later. The deer returns because his plan worked. He escaped danger from that location which makes him come back to it. 

Just because your MS hero hasn't posted about a particular method of killing ditch goats doesn't mean it doesn't work like a charm.


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## MERGANZER (Aug 24, 2006)

This is really quite amusing at the least. Are you guys that threatened by a hunting dog??? My god! In past years there have been numerous dogs on our property in Newaygo County all of the bird dog breeds. GSP's setters and britts. Each and everyone of them I watered, fed and put in the truck to find the owners and every one of them was returned safely. The owners were all very concerned and thankful for me doing so. not once did I think "oh I better shoot that trespassing dog so it doesnt ruin my hunting" They were no threat to my kids in fact one was outside playing with my little girl when I found her in the middle of the woods. I love the toughguy mentality on here I bet most would run and hide if they were introduced in person to those they call out on here. If you say "those with dogs need to control them all the time" you dont know #### about hunting with dogs. They are driven to get what they are after. Educate yourself before you judge or do something really stupid or retain a really good attorney cause you will pay dearly for shooting a prize dog if you live to tell about it.

Ganzer


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## Waz_51 (Jan 10, 2010)

srconnell22 said:


> Look up the name Andre D'acquisto and learn how he killed a few of his giant typicals. You may be a little surprised.
> 
> Let me give you a synopsis...he walks directly into their bedding area and intentionally boots them out. He then sets up and waits for them to circle back downwind a couple of hours later. The deer returns because his plan worked. He escaped danger from that location which makes him come back to it.
> 
> Just because your MS hero hasn't posted about a particular method of killing ditch goats doesn't mean it doesn't work like a charm.


I read Bill Vale's book and he speaks of ways to harvest mature whitetails in their bedrooms but nowhere will you find a soul that recommends to trample through there and expect results...bumping a buck out without him detecting you as a strategy is one thing but walking all around through their core areas isn't gunna get you anywhere


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