# Wolf threat while grouse hunting UP



## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

We all know there is a substantial risk to bear dogs, as they run long distances that can cover wolves territories, and they bark while running, which triggers territorial responses in wolves, among other risk factors such as wolves using bear bait piles, etc. But what about any risk to grouse dogs? They hunt much closer, and don't bark. I'm curious whether any of you think there's anything to worry about when running dogs for grouse in the UP.


----------



## dauber (Jan 11, 2010)

Sure there is something to "worry" about. Do you worry about Blastomycosis? I have 3 close friends who have lost dogs to this fungus in the last few years! Do you worry about Lyme or other tick related diseases? I have s few more close friends who have either lost dogs or had to treat aggressively. How about sticks in the woods? I had one dog luckily survive ramming in thru the back of his throat. I damn near had a dog shot by a road hunter, and one damn near ran over by a speeding bear hunter on a two track. I run Cockers so heck even big boar **** are a worry, let alone bears. A couple weeks ago I lost a dog for a while at a field trial...fell in a deep hole, was about 8 feet down and if we hadn't seen him a few seconds earlier would have had a hard time finding him. The hole was too small for me to get down so had to lasso him and pull him up. 

Point is there are tons of things you can waste your time "worrying" about. How can you avoid things you can't see like Blasto or Lyme? How can you avoid sticks in the woods? You can't! So be as knowledgeable as you can and try to keep the odds in your favor. I live in the UP, hunt 40+ days in the UP each fall, run my dogs another 200+ days, heck every time the dogs go outside a wolf could be here, they have pissed on the shrubs along my house. 

Wolves are easy to see sign, so if you see fresh sign go somewhere else. They shock howl to loud noises, I've heard them howl to train whistles countless times, shotgun shots, even a flock of Ravens carrying on. They leave their droppings often right in the middle of the road, if you see numerous piles of various ages, leave that area for the season. Check out the DNR site listed in the other thread to see where attacks have been. I have much much much less concern for wolves than most of the other maladies that are present in the woods and fields.


----------



## Canvsbk (Jan 13, 2013)

They are absolutely a threat to your dog. Check the DNR website - look in the small game digest - ask the first bird hunter you see up there.


----------



## N M Mechanical (Feb 7, 2008)

dauber said:


> Sure there is something to "worry" about. Do you worry about Blastomycosis? I have 3 close friends who have lost dogs to this fungus in the last few years! Do you worry about Lyme or other tick related diseases? I have s few more close friends who have either lost dogs or had to treat aggressively. How about sticks in the woods? I had one dog luckily survive ramming in thru the back of his throat. I damn near had a dog shot by a road hunter, and one damn near ran over by a speeding bear hunter on a two track. I run Cockers so heck even big boar **** are a worry, let alone bears. A couple weeks ago I lost a dog for a while at a field trial...fell in a deep hole, was about 8 feet down and if we hadn't seen him a few seconds earlier would have had a hard time finding him. The hole was too small for me to get down so had to lasso him and pull him up.
> 
> Point is there are tons of things you can waste your time "worrying" about. How can you avoid things you can't see like Blasto or Lyme? How can you avoid sticks in the woods? You can't! So be as knowledgeable as you can and try to keep the odds in your favor. I live in the UP, hunt 40+ days in the UP each fall, run my dogs another 200+ days, heck every time the dogs go outside a wolf could be here, they have pissed on the shrubs along my house.
> 
> Wolves are easy to see sign, so if you see fresh sign go somewhere else. They shock howl to loud noises, I've heard them howl to train whistles countless times, shotgun shots, even a flock of Ravens carrying on. They leave their droppings often right in the middle of the road, if you see numerous piles of various ages, leave that area for the season. Check out the DNR site listed in the other thread to see where attacks have been. I have much much much less concern for wolves than most of the other maladies that are present in the woods and fields.



Could not said it any better!
Every time you drop the tailgate bad things can happen


----------



## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

I run my dog one township east of where a bunch of dogs have been killed by wolves. I'm concerned but not overly worried about a wolf attacking my dog. Check out the map of where attacks have taken place and steer clear of those townships. There are 6 million acres of public land open to bird hunting in the UP and roughly 1,000 wolves at any given time. There is plenty of space in between wolves to enjoy the outdoors.


----------



## Worm Dunker (Sep 11, 2000)

Well it worries me enough I quit going to the U.P. Maybe if I had a closer working dog or didn't run a bell. A good dog's life is to short to gamble with when the hunting in the lower is as good as it is. Yes I know we have wolfs down here but not enough to have a problem with yet.


----------



## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

Worm Dunker said:


> Maybe if I had a closer working dog or didn't run a bell.


I thought bells would deter wolves. Are you suggesting they attract them? I might just be confused.


----------



## man vs. fish (Sep 6, 2010)

Lamarsh said:


> I thought bells would deter wolves. Are you suggesting they attract them? I might just be confused.


Some have said the bells actually attracted the wolves by peaking their interest.


----------



## Jager Pro (Nov 8, 2013)

Sure they're something to be worried about, every time I go bird hunting in the yoop I carry two 00 buckshot shells for bear, wolves, coyotes. Although admittedly I don't know much about wolves and am not sure what type of habitat they like. I hunt mostly thick aspen and pines and have never personally seen a wolf, one of my buddies claims to have seen a wolf in that exact area but he's also a fisherman so who knows for sure :lol: :lol:


----------



## dallasdog (Nov 17, 2009)

I live and hunt in the UP as well. Dauber's comment/advise is as good as it gets. I spend more time in the woods then the average guy up here and have only seen one wolf. They are more elusive then people lead them to be, or we would have killed more then 21 of them last year (thats a whole different thread though). I have had two occasions where a lone wolf has "shock Howled" at me while bird hunting. In both instances they held their ground even after I made some noise (gunfire) I left as fast as possible with no encounter. Respect them and you will be fine.

Has anyone looked at the stats recently? I dont think there is a confirmed case on a bird dog with a bell or beeper collar in MI, MN, or WI. That could have changed by now (I think I read that in the mining journal). 

As for carrying a pistol, buckshot or slugs if you have to use it, its most likely to late for your dog.


----------



## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

No bell or beeper is going to save your dog from a wolf or pack if it stumbles across a kill, rendezvous area, or den. Wolves hate other canines and they will kill your dog over ground they are protective of. You see lots of wolf tracks going multiple ways and lots of poop it is time for you and the dog to go. 

There have been some cases of bird dogs getting chased by wolves in the last couple of years, cases in which the hunter(s) involved had to shoot a wolf. One involved a shorthair in Minnesota a year or two back I think. I have no idea if bells/beepers were on or not.


----------



## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

The only reason this is rare is their numbers are still small. As they expand...

http://www.startribune.com/snap-decision-grouse-hunter-kills-wolf-to-save-his-dog/173624211/

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_26548097/duluth-grouse-hunter-shoots-wolf-that-was-threatening?source=rss


----------



## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

One last comment then I'm done. 

This wolf is likely descended from imports brought down from Alberta and those are rumored to be bigger than Great Lakes wolves but still...look at the size of that head and mouth, now imagine how quickly things would go for any 50 lbs bird dog encountering that in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Bears, mountain lions, most often those guys will run from a dog. Wolves? That depends. You guys can do what you want but people like me aren't made of money and I'd hate flushing years of dog training (bad or good) down the toilet by making a bad choice and going into wolf country.

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2011/oct/13/woman-bowhunter-glad-have-44-mag-when-wolf-came-close/


----------



## bluekona (Oct 28, 2011)

wolves are never going to go away in the u.p that's just the way it is. you have two options if you want to hunt in upper peninsula 1.quit or 2. deal with them. dauber and dallasdog spoke the truth. i love to hunt too much with my dog to stop. and statistically your dog is probably more likely to die from a car crash with you on they way to hunt then. by wolves. ya they suck for sure but there is no going back now:sad:


----------



## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

There is no choice, I agree. People are going to have to adapt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

man vs. fish said:


> Some have said the bells actually attracted the wolves by peaking their interest.


I'm calling BS on that. A wolf would have to be conditioned to "get a free meal" with bells in order to be "attracted" to bells/beepers as some have suggested. 

I hunt the U.P. fairly regularly and have quite hunting a few spots because of the danger they potentially are in that area. I still keep hunting the U.P. though, I'm just careful as Dauber and Dallasdog have said.


----------



## yooperguy (Mar 20, 2009)

I figure I'm probably in the same general area as luv2hunteup. I'm not far from where a bunch of dogs where killed by wolves a couple of years ago. As my fellow yoopers have said so well... it is the cost of doing business up here to have wolves on the list of those MANY dangers that could be encountered while in the forests of the North. I don't worry about it. But I'm always aware of the possibility that wolves are present.


----------



## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

Just to keep it in perspective for you guys. In Washington state we have...black bears, grizzly bears (rare, but they are here), mountain lions, wolverines, rattlesnakes, coyotes (24/7/365 "season" on them), and wolves. I look over my shoulder a lot more here than I ever did in Michigan. From grouse to quail to pheasants to chukar to Huns...there is not any one single type of bird here that won't expose your dog to serious potential harm if you hunt them. It's a roll of the dice every time. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be smart about where you hunt them either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old professor (Oct 26, 2008)

I have a friend that I used to bird hunt with that now lives in northern Wisconsin. He hunt the northern forest regions and has lost two dogs to wolves, Yes, there is a danger but as the other posters have said, Deal with it or hunt elsewhere.


----------



## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

old professor said:


> I have a friend that I used to bird hunt with that now lives in northern Wisconsin. He hunt the northern forest regions and has lost two dogs to wolves, Yes, there is a danger but as the other posters have said, Deal with it or hunt elsewhere.


What kind of dogs?


----------



## man vs. fish (Sep 6, 2010)

BIGSP said:


> I'm calling BS on that. A wolf would have to be conditioned to "get a free meal" with bells in order to be "attracted" to bells/beepers as some have suggested.
> 
> I hunt the U.P. fairly regularly and have quite hunting a few spots because of the danger they potentially are in that area. I still keep hunting the U.P. though, I'm just careful as Dauber and Dallasdog have said.


Just what i heard, i don't bird hunt nor do i hunt in the U.P., it sounded viable to me as some animals are intrigued by new noises/sights.


----------



## UplandJunkie (Feb 4, 2013)

Between the wolves and the cougars I'd say stay below the bridge! Plus, all the predators are killing all the deer and small game so might as well stay where the gettin is good. 

Personally, I'm more worried about the things dauber spoke of. Where I mainly hunt there is a decent Badger population as well. I am more concerned one of the dogs could wind up face to face with one of them or a porkie more than I am concerned with Wolves in the fall. Its just like anything else, risk vs. reward. If the risk is too high for you time to start looking for a new hobby. I accept the risk and won't be trading the hunting gear in any time soon.


----------



## Worm Dunker (Sep 11, 2000)

I was told by somebody who's friend lost a Brittany to a wolf in the upper that not to run bells or beepers . Also was on the news the other day only one wolf left on Island Royal maybe they can send these problem wolfs there.


----------



## UplandJunkie (Feb 4, 2013)

Worm Dunker said:


> I was told by somebody who's friend lost a Brittany to a wolf in the upper that not to run bells or beepers . Also was on the news the other day only one wolf left on Island Royal maybe they can send these problem wolfs there.



I would be interested to hear more details about your friends friend who lost the Britt to a wolf. Was this during the fall? We usually hear of the dog/wolf conflicts pretty quick up here. I have yet to hear of a bird dog being attacked/killed but have seen the aftermath of several hounds that were killed. 

Not saying it didn't happen. Just would like to know the when, where, and why to the story. I have a couple Britts myself and would hate to find out my area has a pack running with a taste for elite bird dogs.


----------



## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

WestCoastHunter said:


> The only reason this is rare is their numbers are still small. As they expand...
> 
> http://www.startribune.com/snap-decision-grouse-hunter-kills-wolf-to-save-his-dog/173624211/
> 
> http://www.twincities.com/localnews...r-shoots-wolf-that-was-threatening?source=rss


I remember that story about that woman and that huge wolf. What a honker that pup was. Wouldn't want to run into something like that with or without my bird dog.


----------



## Worm Dunker (Sep 11, 2000)

It's been years ago and I believe it was around Trout Lake or Chrystal Falls. It was in the fall.


----------



## ncgreg (Dec 26, 2010)

Worm Dunker said:


> Well it worries me enough I quit going to the U.P.


Hey Wormdunker, well maybe I was thinking your way a little bit also last fall but sure enough got surprised on a rainy cold Nov day around Iron River. Attached pic I took with iphone through the rainsoaked windshield, wish it was more clear, but there is no doubt in my mind about this guy.

Couple days later in same general area, I gave my dog the tap and ok and away he went out sight. 1 minute later he tore back to me, looking at me, then the woods. Did not want to go there. Didn't take me too long to tell him, " not sure what you saw, but we're getting the H outta here! And did!
All the best


----------



## ralphbeagle (May 24, 2006)

The MI and WI DNRs have a page with reported wolf depredations on their website - no bird dogs on the list last time I looked although I haven't done so in awhile. While you may or may not trust the DNR 'facts', why would they systematically NOT report bird dog depredations while still listing some pet kills? There was a report of a wolf attacking a bird dog by Iron Mountain a few years back but they were apparently never able to determine whether the attack was by a wolf or a pack of feral dogs that was down there. (Trout LAKE by the way is on the Eastern end of the UP; Trout CREEK is about 30 miles or so Northwest of Crystal Falls on M28). With regards to beepers and bells...I am aware of a bear hound or two that were killed by Watersmeet last year that were wearing bells - but bear hounds also tend to be barking which is an aggressive act likely to trigger a defensive attack among canines. I tend to think that wolves coming to beepers or bells on bird dogs would have a short life expectancy. I have also spoken with a number of vets on the West end of the UP (Houghton. Marquette, Bruce Crossing) and all have stated they had not heard of a dog out hunting bird that had been attacked. Here is a link to the wolf killed in Minnesota - the one actual attack that I'm aware of (http://www.startribune.com/snap-decision-grouse-hunter-kills-wolf-to-save-his-dog/173624211/).


----------



## Fowlersduckhunter (Oct 28, 2011)

There's a worry for sure, but I've been running grouse dogs for 10 years and only this past fall have I had an incident to cause me legitimate worry. And that was only because I saw one standing in the road I was gonna walk. Let him go on his way, turned the truck around and went to another spot.


----------



## N M Mechanical (Feb 7, 2008)

Worm Dunker said:


> It's been years ago and I believe it was around Trout Lake or Chrystal Falls. It was in the fall.


Wow that is like saying there is a great steak house in either Detroit or ludington


----------

