# Outdoor wood burning furnaces



## gundogguy (Oct 5, 2008)

*Pros and Cons?* Of installing an outdoor wood burning heating system.
Currently We use about 4 cord using a Vermont Sandstone wood burner. And about 100 gals of oil forced air per season year. 2 story 1800 sq plus basement.
Thanks in advance.


----------



## grapestomper (Jan 9, 2012)

Sounds like you have a decent set up right now. 
What temp do you try to keep the house at?
Do you need to heat a garage or a shop?
I heat about 2500 sf and my shop to about 45 degrees unless I am in it. 
Last year being a cold winter I burned 12 full cords. 
We keep the house at 70 and 68 at night. 
I have a Hardy outdoor furnace. 
We cut all of our own wood. This also supplies all of the hot water to the house. 
You never run out of hot water.


----------



## gundogguy (Oct 5, 2008)

grapestomper said:


> Sounds like you have a decent set up right now.
> What temp do you try to keep the house at?
> Do you need to heat a garage or a shop?
> I heat about 2500 sf and my shop to about 45 degrees unless I am in it.
> ...


Thanks for your insights. You are prolly heating more space for a longer winter time exposure than what I'm up against here in southern Mich. I also cut all my own wood. Though If I was up against more than 5 cord per year I might become a buyer of some. Hot water is a consideration, though there is just the two of us.
I think there would be a pay back but it would take a few years. Thanks again.


----------



## UplandnWaterfowl (Jan 3, 2010)

Pro's:
All wood/mess is outside, nothing in the house, easy to remove ash once a week.
Lower insurance with OWB.
Only need to load once a day (if below zero, just need to throw a couple in to make it to your feed time)
Also heats your Hot Water, so no fuel/electric used 
Easy to add a unit to also heat your garage/barn (even with my house, water and barn only feed once a day)


Con's:
Must keep running all winter, you can't shut it down, so if you go on vacation (or even gone 24 hours) you have to have a neighbor/friend/someone fill every day. Got 3-4 OWB's in our area, so we just all help each other out.
Initial cost, payback is shorter if you have access to free wood to cut, if buying wood, do the math.
You have to like to cut/spit wood, even if you buy, the only economical way is to buy 8 foot logs and cut/split them.

Overall I am glad I got mine.


----------



## grapestomper (Jan 9, 2012)

You don't need to keep it going all winter. 
If you have forced air furnace the coil will keep your water at about 60 degrees if you are gone a few days. You just leave the circulating pump going.


----------



## UplandnWaterfowl (Jan 3, 2010)

grapestomper said:


> You don't need to keep it going all winter.
> If you have forced air furnace the coil will keep your water at about 60 degrees if you are gone a few days. You just leave the circulating pump going.


Yes the OWB will absorb some heat from the indoor loop preventing freezing; however, you are then using your forced air furnace or inside boiler to not only heat your home but to also heat 500 gallons of water, it will run 100% and burn a whole bunch of fuel. 

If you will be away for a weekend, you can turn down your indoor thermostat, fill the furnace full of wood and turn off the draft fan, and enjoy your weekend away.

For me, I also heat my Barn and keep items in it that I don't want to freeze, so for me the only option is to make sure I have coverage if I am gone to keep the OWB going.

Either way, it still is a con that you can't easily shut it down, if you are away for a week you can't just fill with antifreeze (too expensive) or let the inside furnace back feed heat (too expensive). So if someone has the lifestyle of going to Florida for weeks at a time over the winter they need to consider that before buying an OWB.


----------



## grapestomper (Jan 9, 2012)

Aree, If you are gone more than a few days and the temp. is below 20 degrees you should probably have someone fill the stove or you need to invest in antifreeze.


----------



## Chromedoggy (Mar 25, 2007)

I have shut my central boiler down many, many times. As long as the water pump is moving water, it is very unlikely to freeze in the stove, and will not freeze a line.


----------



## gillcommander (Oct 19, 2011)

I bought my OWB this past Fall and so far I am very happy. Looks like I am going to go thru about 10 cords but I probably fill it too often. Last winter I paid over $5k in fuel oil... This winter the fuel oil has kicked on exactly 5 times. I've pretty much paid for my OWB by the end of year one!! 

Like others have said you have to enjoy cutting and stacking wood. It's not my most favorite thing to do but beats sitting my butt on the couch waiting for the fuel oil truck to show up every month. Also, you are kind of married to it keeping it full but again so much better than the alternative.


----------



## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

I love my outdoor wood boiler, it keeps my lazy ass in shape.:lol:

If you get a stove make sure it is well insulated. P&M,Central boiler,ridgewood,wood master,heatmaster,empyre those are all great stoves.
Do not get any tiled underground pipe unless it is double walled tile from zsupply in grand rapids. The best underground lines are thermopex and logstor hands down, do not go cheap on pipe you will kick yourself over and over.

I have done way to much research on these things.


----------



## polaris500 (Jul 24, 2010)

I considered an outdoor furnace myself but decided that dealing with wood constantly (I've done that for 15 years using a wood stove) was not in my future. I decided that going with geo-thermal was my best option. I have propane and the payback will be 6 years. You get a 30% tax credit on the cost of the system, hot water and air conditioning that will freeze your toes off (if wanted). I also get a major reduction on the cost of electricity for the geo system. Just a thought, I'd rather be doing something fun other than bucking wood all summer and fall for heat.


----------



## Yarcraft (Jul 15, 2006)

If you go with geo, you will be still cutting wood for your wood stove. Geo is good for cooling not so good for heating. My house is 57 degrees this morning running all out with grid heaters on.


----------



## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

Wood is still the best bang for the buck.


----------



## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

gundogguy said:


> *Pros and Cons?* Of installing an outdoor wood burning heating system.
> Currently We use about 4 cord using a Vermont Sandstone wood burner. And about 100 gals of oil forced air per season year. 2 story 1800 sq plus basement.
> Thanks in advance.


I have a Heatmor. Got a letter from the company that they will no longer make a non-catylitic boiler due to EPA laws. If you want a non-catyalis boiler you better hurry. 4 cords? What do yo consider a cord? Outdoor boilers eat wood!


----------



## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

There are many variables that can cause these to eat wood.


----------



## CrankYanker (Aug 20, 2011)

Yarcraft said:


> If you go with geo, you will be still cutting wood for your wood stove. Geo is good for cooling not so good for heating. My house is 57 degrees this morning running all out with grid heaters on.



Sounds like you got ripped off.


----------



## Wandering arrows (Dec 20, 2009)

Just a fyi for wood boilers . A friend of mine put a propane add on burner inside of his for when he goes on vacation . Seemed like a good idea


----------



## tmanmi (Sep 20, 2005)

Wandering arrows said:


> Just a fyi for wood boilers . A friend of mine put a propane add on burner inside of his for when he goes on vacation . Seemed like a good idea


Central Boiler has what they call dual fuel option.

http://www.centralboiler.com/dualfuel.html

This is my seventh winter with a Central Boiler and I don't regret it at all. I don't have the dual fuel model, if I recall it added about another $1,500 on to the price. I went into it knowing that it was going to burn a significant amount of wood and that I was going to have to cut it. This winter I would have been spending $500-$600 a month for propane. Normal winter weather, not -20, I burn about a face cord week. 

I try to get at least a months supply a head before the weather turns nasty. If you have your own woods or a place to cut close by 2 people with 2 saws and a splitter can easily cut, load, unload and stack a weeks worth of wood in 3 hours or less. I cut 2-3 times a month and have been staying ahead of the game. I do have an emergency stack I usually contribute to during the summer from storm damage trees around the farm that is too green to really burn. I have probably a month's worth sitting in that stack. I usually start burning that the next fall.


----------



## Steiny (May 30, 2011)

I see pros and cons to these outfits. 

My neighbor has one as his only source of heat. Costs him a fair amount of work and a very small amount of electricity to run his furnace fan and circulation pump, so he saves quite a few $$ on annual heat, however he puts in quite a few solid days of cutting, splitting, hauling and stacking wood, I'd guess several hundred $$ per year in expenses towards cutting and hauling. There is also a fair time and effort investment in keeping the unit stoked twice daily and disposal of ashes.

One huge problem could be a power outage. If power goes out for any length of time, the circulation pump and furnace fan quits running and you have no heat. This happened to a guy I work with last winter, then his pipes froze and he had one heck of a mess / expense. If this is your only heat source, I would definitely recommend that you have a generator handy to power the thing in event of a power outage.

Another real negative with my neighbors set up is that he can't take a trip anywhere in the winter, unless he gets someone lined up to keep the wood boiler stoked in his absence.

For somebody that is pretty handy and likes the work associated with wood cutting and heating it can save a ton of utility bills, but I would definitely have a generator, and I would definitely maintain your original furnace so that you have an alternate heat source if you want to leave.

Outside wood boilers are very safe compared to an inside wood stove. A stove malfunction or chimney fire would occur out away from your house rather than in it. The trade off is, you don't get the nice radiant heat with or without power like you get from a wood stove.

Something that doesn't get talked about much is the cost of these units. My neighbor paid $8500 for his. That amount of money would pay for some significant furnace upgrades, gas bills, or buy a bunch of insulation, replacement windows, etc.

In summary .... They are nice and will get you away from some significant monthly utility bills, and give a certain feeling of independence, but you need to be the type of guy that likes that hard work that goes along with it.

For my money, I'd rather make my house as well insulated and efficient as practical, have a high efficiency furnace, and an inside wood stove to use as supplemental heat. I'd rather use my spare time ice fishing in the winter instead of feeding a wood boiler.


----------



## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

I have a central boiler. It cut my heat bill in half but increased my labor 100 %. I buy 2 logger trucks a year, I usually dont split wood, just cut it and stack it. I did split some this year because i got a bunch of free wood given to me that was too large to handle in the round. I have used well over half my supply since sept. I heat a 2800 sq ft house plus my 670 sq ft garage and all the hot water i need. I work my ass my off putting up wood, but im never cold:lol: I crank the heat up in the house to 72-75. and my garage is comfortable to work in, and i take a fifteen minute almost scalding hot shower every day. When i burned propane in my basement boiler, i was cold and broke.
My next house I am going to look into a pellet/ wood boiler.


----------



## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

Good post Steiny. I still like cutting and stacking wood. Although it's getting a little harder. I'll be 63 shortly. It's a good work out if I don't overdo it. I'm usuall done cutting by June 1. Have not had to buy any wood yet in nearly 10 years of burning. But I am considering a stand by generator to power my house in case of a power outage.


----------



## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

brushbuster said:


> I have a central boiler. It cut my heat bill in half but increased my labor 100 %. I buy 2 logger trucks a year, I usually dont split wood, just cut it and stack it. I did split some this year because i got a bunch of free wood given to me that was too large to handle in the round. I have used well over half my supply since sept. I heat a 2800 sq ft house plus my 670 sq ft garage and all the hot water i need. I work my ass my off putting up wood, but im never cold:lol: I crank the heat up in the house to 72-75. and my garage is comfortable to work in, and i take a fifteen minute almost scalding hot shower every day. When i burned propane in my basement boiler, i was cold and broke.
> My next house I am going to look into a pellet/ wood boiler.


I talked to the guy at Fairview Hardware today. He runs a Outdoor boiler. Classic I believe. He burns pellets and says it may be a little cheaper than buying semi loads.


----------



## RML (Apr 24, 2009)

My brother uses a Fire Cheif OWB made in Missouri..

Pros: Forced Air into pletum above forced air furnace.. Has a nice blower AND can leave his house when ever he wants..Boiler units suck..Tanks rot out, Freeze, Eat Wood like crazy..He can make a fire or not make a fire..mess is outside and uses half the wood of a boiler unit..Cost of the unit is half of a boiler unit also..

Cons: Can't heat household water..


----------



## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

My stove is a non-catylist. I can burn non seasoned wood. Though I seldom do. The new laws coming in May say the manufactuers can not make them anymore according to the letter I got from Heatmor.


----------



## out2fish (May 11, 2011)

A big issue is the cost of jeopardizing your back moving the cut logs around. I grew up with my dad burning wood. His back was always an issue. My father-in-law has a bad back due to burning wood too. My brother-in-law gets shots for his back because he burns wood. A friend from work had surgery on his back recently because he heats with wood. All of them can't give it up because they have to much invested in burning wood. I'd rather pay more for propane then risk my back for the rest of my life.


----------



## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

out2fish said:


> A big issue is the cost of jeopardizing your back moving the cut logs around. I grew up with my dad burning wood. His back was always an issue. My father-in-law has a bad back due to burning wood too. My brother-in-law gets shots for his back because he burns wood. A friend from work had surgery on his back recently because he heats with wood. All of them can't give it up because they have to much invested in burning wood. I'd rather pay more for propane then risk my back for the rest of my life.


I doubt if it's the moving of fire wood that causes bad backs. I think it's the lack of knowing how to move heavy objects the right way.


----------



## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

2508speed said:


> I doubt if it's the moving of fire wood that causes bad backs. I think it's the lack of knowing how to move heavy objects the right way.



Exactly. Proper exercise, including lifting is good for you. I suspect their problem is not the fire wood.


----------



## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

I got a bad back but i think jumping out of airplanes over 60 times did that. If a guy works smart it shouldnt be a problem. I roll the big stuff into a wheel barrow and use my legs and arms as leevers.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## UplandnWaterfowl (Jan 3, 2010)

RML said:


> My brother uses a Fire Cheif OWB made in Missouri..
> 
> Pros: Forced Air into pletum above forced air furnace.. Has a nice blower AND can leave his house when ever he wants..Boiler units suck..Tanks rot out, Freeze, Eat Wood like crazy..He can make a fire or not make a fire..mess is outside and uses half the wood of a boiler unit..Cost of the unit is half of a boiler unit also..
> 
> Cons: Can't heat household water..


Comparing apples and oranges, the Fire Cheif is not an Outdoor Wood *Boiler* it is an Outdoor Wood *Stove* and is more comparable to Indoor Wood Stove with the difference being you don't have have the mess inside and it is hooked up directly to your home duct work. Yes a great option if you are looking at a Stove, you can run it or not, mess is outside and the purchase cost is half.

However, I would disagree that it uses half the wood, OWB's are very efficient at transfering heat to the house vs forced air. Maybe your brother only burns half the wood that I do with my OWB but can your brother claim that his primary furnace has never kicked on even with this cold snap we have had. Can he claim that he loaded his stove last night at 5:00 pm and that he is still sitting in his house at 10:00 am this morning with it still burning. Oh, yes I use more wood, but my Pole Barn is also sitting at 60 degrees right now and my hot water heater has also not run since October when I fired up my OWB.

So for you to claim that "Boiler units suck" is trolling, they both have pros and cons and they both are good choices for some and bad choices for others.


----------



## Tracker83 (Jun 21, 2005)

Steiny said:


> Something that doesn't get talked about much is the cost of these units. My neighbor paid $8500 for his. That amount of money would pay for some significant furnace upgrades, gas bills, or buy a bunch of insulation, replacement windows, etc.
> 
> In summary .... They are nice and will get you away from some significant monthly utility bills, and give a certain feeling of independence, but you need to be the type of guy that likes that hard work that goes along with it.
> 
> For my money, I'd rather make my house as well insulated and efficient as practical, have a high efficiency furnace, and an inside wood stove to use as supplemental heat. I'd rather use my spare time ice fishing in the winter instead of feeding a wood boiler.


There is no way that I could add enough energy efficiency upgrades to my house to save $3k per year. No frickin way. There are a lot of valid complaints against OWBs, and a lot of "cons" associated with their operation, but from a purely economic standpoint they make a lot of sense. I calculated a 3-year return on investment from mine, and I am now on winter #9 with it. After paying back the investment I have probably saved a conservative $15k since then. If I didn't like all of the firewood processing I could buy delivered for about 1,500 a year. Even then I would still be WAY ahead than if I had to heat with LP.


----------



## Steiny (May 30, 2011)

I'm very pro wood heat and have been using it all my life, but the real savings can be a bit exaggerated. Something that gets overlooked when looking at the true economics is what it really costs to cut a load of wood.

I've got (3) chain saws $1500
A 28 ton splitter $1800
(20) chains $360
A chain sharpener $150
$10 - 20 in gas & mix to run saws & splitter each time I cut / split
Misc. Safety gear & PPE for cutting $200
$10 in fuel for truck / tractor each time I cut 
Wear & tear on truck / tractor
Misc. hand tools, fuel canisters, etc.

This is all stuff folks that don't heat with wood don't need. All of this could go towards buying heat or making a house more efficient too.


----------



## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

Steiny said:


> I'm very pro wood heat and have been using it all my life, but the real savings can be a bit exaggerated. Something that gets overlooked when looking at the true economics is what it really costs to cut a load of wood.
> 
> I've got (3) chain saws $1500
> A 28 ton splitter $1800
> ...


 Not every wood cutter needs all that stuff either, 
I got a 20 year old stihl, I live in the woods so i need one anyways.
I have a 5 dollar file.
I have to put gas in my truck anyways,
I go through about 20 gallons of gas for the saw and 5 gallons of bar oil.
I use my ear plugs that i shoot with.


----------



## Josh R (Dec 4, 2010)

What does a load of wood cost these days? I'm taking like a semi load of logs? 
Josh


----------



## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Oak about 12-1400. I know a couple people that buy it.


----------



## Josh R (Dec 4, 2010)

Ok, I over heard a guy a couple years telling another guy at work saying a semi load lasts him approx 2 years. I'm not saying it's the truth tho, just what I thought heard. I guess I should've found out of it was the truth. He was saying he heats his garage, 2800 ft house and some of his barn. Seams to be stretching the truth but I guess if he gets some wood from storms and other stuff it could be possible. I'm also not sure how well everything is insulated. 
What's everyone's thoughts?
Even if it lasted 1 year that seems to be a decent price to heat a full cold season from November to April.


----------



## Tracker83 (Jun 21, 2005)

I can get a 9 cord load of oak delivered for $1100 plus sales tax. I certainly wouldn't get two years out of that, but one year easily. That's heating my house, my hot water, and my 1000 sq ft garage. Still very very cheap compared to what propane would cost.


----------



## Josh R (Dec 4, 2010)

9 cords a full semi load? Or partial?


----------



## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Josh R said:


> 9 cords a full semi load? Or partial?


This guy's semi load is 10 cord

http://coxx.com/firewood/


----------



## Tracker83 (Jun 21, 2005)

Josh R said:


> 9 cords a full semi load? Or partial?


Yes, full semi load. Advertised as 10 cords, but closer to being 9 after cut/split/stack.


----------



## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

I've looked at a wood burner for my home. I crunched the numbers and in my situation it doesn't really save me much over the next fifteen years. I am fortunate enough to live in the "country", BUT I also have natural gas. 

My BIL on the other hand, who lives about ten miles from me, DOESN"T have NG and compared to burning propane the wood burner is a much better option for him over the same fifteen year time frame.

Really boils down to what you are currently heating with as to whether the wood makes sense.


----------



## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

I'm in the country too and I too also have natural gas. The house came with a fireplace insert and I have 20+ wooded acres with lots of dead ash, I have a chainsaw, trailer, tractor, splitter etc. so I take advantage of the relatively inexpensive heating source. If it all wasn't there, I doubt that I'd make the effort as I cut wood my whole life and my back doesn't like it.


----------



## Tracker83 (Jun 21, 2005)

Honestly, I wouldn't mess with wood heat if I had natural gas available.


----------



## Josh R (Dec 4, 2010)

Yeah, no natural gas around my place. It's a 1/2 mile away. Last time I looked into it, it was 7 grand I think and needed 2 other neighbors to sign on I believe. Got 3 neighbors and they ain't spending zero lol. 
Josh


----------



## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

Josh R said:


> What does a load of wood cost these days? I'm taking like a semi load of logs?
> Josh


 I paid 800 bucks a load this year. 2 loads was beech and maple and some ash the other load was oak and some maple.
One of my friends told me about a guy that was delivering for 700/ oak. Of course that wasnt until after i got my last load


----------



## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

For full loads that's a hell of a deal


----------



## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

I first started getting loads fo 500, each year though it went up 100 bucks every year. Ive been paying 800 for the last 3 years. 
Gapinski trucking in Gaylord is who i get it from
Frenchy helsel from Grayling is the guy my friend told me about for 700.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## 5pt. (Dec 17, 2010)

What's a "load"? How much wood.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## Josh R (Dec 4, 2010)

5pt. said:


> What's a "load"? How much wood.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Advertised as 10 full cords but closer to 9 cut and stacked. As Tracker above above!
Josh


----------



## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

I have heard about buying a bundle of slabs from the sawmills in mio that i just havent had time to look into yet. If i remember right 30 bucks a bundle for hardwood slabs and 10 for softwood
I do not know how many cord is in a bundle. I think the bundles are 4x4x8. Pick up only. 

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

Here is a load i got in Nov. That will cut up in the spring

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## Tracker83 (Jun 21, 2005)

Josh R said:


> Advertised as 10 full cords but closer to 9 cut and stacked. As Tracker above above!
> Josh


That's just one guy. I have no idea if that applies to others who sell truckloads of wood.


----------



## Josh R (Dec 4, 2010)

Gotcha!


----------



## polaris500 (Jul 24, 2010)

Yarcraft said:


> If you go with geo, you will be still cutting wood for your wood stove. Geo is good for cooling not so good for heating. My house is 57 degrees this morning running all out with grid heaters on.


I'm sorry that whomever installed, sized (designed) or maintains your geo system has done such a poor job. I know 8 people with geo systems and they are having no problem this year. Only time the grid's come on is if they bump the heat more than 2 degrees and it won't bring the house up to temp in a predetermined amount of time.


----------



## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

I've made my home efficient and have a wood boiler plus no propane since march 2011. I also go to the chiropractor every two weeks for the last 9yrs, its just great for your health.


----------

