# What minimal caliber bullet to use?



## PDS

Although I haven't checked each thread, I don't recall seeing any discussion on the topic of what firearm and caliber/bullet weight one should use. So here goes: What is the minimal caliber/bullet weight bullet one should use on feral pigs? I use the term "minimal" not to encourage small caliber hunting, but, rather, to see if there is agreement on entry level loads, the theory being that everything larger is also adequate. 
I know what grandpa used to use on the farm at butchering time, but this is a little different setting.
For that matter, would any other weapon work, such as the bow?


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## Perferator

Plenty of guys are using .223's in the AR platform. Me? I'm going to be taking my Guide Gun 45-70.

What the heck, whatever kills them. A .22lr will take one down if you put it in his ear. Minimal should be defined as what you shoot accurately and quickly at the distance you expect to be shooting.


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## bioactive

Perferator said:


> Plenty of guys are using .223's in the AR platform. Me? I'm going to be taking my Guide Gun 45-70.
> 
> What the heck, whatever kills them. A .22lr will take one down if you put it in his ear. Minimal should be defined as what you shoot accurately and quickly at the distance you expect to be shooting.


I would not hesitate to try to take one out if all I had was a .22. However, I carry a 30-06 close at hand at all times when on the property in case an opportunity arises. A .223 is probably the starting minimum for a serious chance at killing them.

One of the unfortunate things about all this is that night hunting for varmints with lights is a good way to take pigs out but we are limited to a .22 in MI. It would be nice to have targeted hunts for pigs with larger caliber rifles.

I do not see why there would be a problem with this. We are faced with all kinds of situations where we are carrying arms that can kill a particular animal but are not allowed to shoot it. For example. I could kill a turkey with a rifle during rabbit or deer season or while varmint hunting, and the only thing that keeps me from doing so is the personal decision to not break the law. Seems to me the same thing applies for things like night hunting with lights (allow shooting of only the targeted animal with the high powered rifle), day hunting for turkeys (allow the hunter to carry a rifle with him or slugs, and use them to opportunistically take a pig, and depend, like we do in all seasons anyway on the hunter not using it on the turkey).

I guess the arguments against this are that the hunter may not be able to resist the urge to shoot the turkey at 100 yards. Well, the guy who is going to do that will do it anyway. The majority of honest hunters won't. 

I see the pig problem as doing potentially as much harm as CWD except it is not a potential problem, it is a real infection that is already taking hold and requires drastic measures to attack the problem while it is in the early stages.

The DNR really needs to get on board with this because these pigs are on their way to destroying the Natural Resources that the DNR is in charge of.


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## jmoser

Perferator said:


> Plenty of guys are using .223's in the AR platform. Me? I'm going to be taking my Guide Gun 45-70.
> 
> What the heck, whatever kills them. A .22lr will take one down if you put it in his ear. Minimal should be defined as what you shoot accurately and quickly at the distance you expect to be shooting.


Many folks in other states routinely use .223s with 60+ gr bullets like the Nosler Partition [$$$] or Win 64 gr Powerpoint [cheap.]

I have handloaded and grouped both in my AR and Encore.

I have a buddy who has taken freezer hogs on ranches with his .22 LR pistol more than once, of course you better be close and a very good shot.


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## HTC

During the 9 years I lived in South Texas I estimate I took nearly 100 hogs of all sizes from shoats to one boar that was over 500lbs. Additionally I was there when my buddies took at least another 100-150 pigs. Some were trapped, most were taken at night with a scoped rifle. I have taken a few with 44 caliber handgun. In my experience they do not take a whole lot of gun to put on the ground. Like any other game, if you put one through their chest they don't go far. I primarily used a 7mm-08 with 140 NBT's. I also used a 300 winmag with 165 grain NBT's. Centerfire .22's with a quality bullet would work fine. I do see them as possibly problematic with a big boar. Some of you may have read about a guard plate that adult boars have over their vitals to protect them during a fight. That plate is real, as in real thick and real hard. About 1.0" or so thick on a big guy and made out of something like cartiledge it will open a bullet up right away.....possibly taking the gas out of a light .22 caliber bullet prevetning it from getting through the ribs and into the chest. Like a bear, blood trails from a pig are often not all that great. They have a small heart some fat and heavy hide that just does not allow good drainage. So if your .22 does not exit you may be searching blindly for him after the shot, something to consider when choosing your caliber. I had, on more than one occasion, 7mm-08 bullets fail to exit but the hogs went down on the spot so it wasn't an issue. When you skin a boar that plate is also problematic as it does not just fold over and roll down like normal hide.


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## anthonyd87

i got a buddy who took one out with a 22 mag. he had to shoot it in the ear 4 times though


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## Perferator

anthonyd87 said:


> i got a buddy who took one out with a 22 mag. he had to shoot it in the ear 4 times though


Was it a good group??


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## tommy-n

Perferator said:


> Was it a good group??


Lets just say his hearing is not so good anymore


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## ramitupurs84

I don't think I would take .223 unless I was really sure of my ability. People discount a .223 on a deer, but a hog sometimes double the size of a adult doe doesn't seem raise issues. :SHOCKED:

So I would take a 12 ga.


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## PDS

...and without any experience whatsoever in hunting these beasts, my sense was that the minimum I would take would be my .223 with a BUG of at least my .357 handgun. I know from my days on the old farm (now 40+ years ago) that my grandfather used a .22 to dispatch domesticated hogs for butchering, which would sometimes require more than one shot to the head, all being from close range in a relatively controlled environment. I figured that the 22-250 or the 243 might be better options than my 223. 
So, I am simply looking for opinions in a realtively new sport here in Michigan, and thanks to all who have responded.


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## ramitupurs84

I think if your going to flirt with .223 you might want the semi-auto platform verus the bolt gun.


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## bigman

357 mag.


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## BassFisher91

I'll be taking my .270 up north with me this weekend and see if the opportunity presents itself while I'm cutting wood. Any other laws I should know of before shooting one and using it for a nice meal? I know no hunting at night, anything else? They should put out a flyer about the hazards these pigs may be making.


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## Gun Nut

Shot placement is one of the most important things to consider. A few years ago two kids were out rabbit hunting in a field down the street. To their surprise a feral pig jumped up in front of them. They shot it 13 times while chaseing it across the field. Now I know there were no head shots, but that was alot of lead being thrown. I shot 2 wild Russians with a 45-70. one was a neck shot, the other was a lung shot. I was useing Federal 350 gr JHP ammo. The neck shot put him down in his tracks, but the bullet never exited, shot was about 50 yards. The lung shot was a complete pass through. Fact the bullet sucked a bunch of lung out the other side. 

I have killed domestic hogs here on my farm. 1 shot with a .22, center skull about 1 inch above their eyes. Puts them down every time. If I were to go out to hunt them, I would opt for a 12ga with slugs out here. Most of our feral pigs are in the thickest crap you could think of. Fact 3 very nice ones were taken about 5 miles from my house. The guys hunting them were on their hands and knees, crawling through briars and brush to get to them. They were never more than 10 yards apart. All 3 pigs were taken with a slug gun. At up close and personal ranges, it's hard to beat the power of a shot gun. If the area you are hunting is more open then I would go with a rifle for sure. If thr AR is what you have, practise head shots or neck shots, I would definetly recomend useing a partition, pointed soft point, or a X-Bullet. There is nothing worse than a wounded & pi$$ed off boar, and all you have is a mouse gun. :yikes:


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## franky

I watched on TV a guy was shooting hogs with a .22 cal BB gun. These shots were taken around 20 yards or so and were head shots, but it goes to show, if you have good shot placement, you can expand your range of selection as far as caliber goes.


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## shop tom

I'd use whatever big game (deer) gun I was most comfortable with. Most hogs will be at least 125-150 lbs., likely more. Personally, I'd use my .30-30 or one of my M-Ns, with my .44 Mag as a back-up.

tom


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## junkman

Bigger is always better if I was targeting hogs I would more than likely use my deer rifle wich is .45/70 a little over kill but deer do not go very far after taking one in the chest


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## BirdieShooter

I have a Rock River .458 SOCOM upper on a DPMS Lower. A 300 grain JHP comes out of the barrel somewhere around 1800fps and 2300 ft-lb (give or take a couple of feets or lb's). If ya think it would do the trick I am always open to some good horse tradin'. Or maybe I will convert it into a pistol, with a quad rail... and light....and a laser....:evilsmile


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## Perferator

junkman said:


> Bigger is always better if I was targeting hogs I would more than likely use my deer rifle wich is .45/70 a little over kill but deer do not go very far after taking one in the chest


I use my guide gun, nice to know other 45-70 guys are hanging around.


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## junkman

Perferator said:


> I use my guide gun, nice to know other 45-70 guys are hanging around.


 Very devastating round on almost anything alive and should do very well on a pig no matter how big it is that and I just don't like to be under gunned for animal I'm going after


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## Perferator

junkman said:


> Very devastating round on almost anything alive and should do very well on a pig no matter how big it is that and I just don't like to be under gunned for animal I'm going after


Since the Michigan woods arent your "grampa's woods anymore" what with hogs, bears, wolves and perhaps one other dangerous species....I take the guide gun when calling coyotes. Or just about anytime going for a walk in the woods.


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## junkman

Perferator said:


> Since the Michigan woods arent your "grampa's woods anymore" what with hogs, bears, wolves and perhaps one other dangerous species....I take the guide gun when calling coyotes. Or just about anytime going for a walk in the woods.


 I normally take the N.E.F. handy rifle or the Magnum Research B.F.R. along for a walk in the woods or in persuit of other game just itching for the chance to smoke some bacon


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## Perferator

junkman said:


> I normally take the N.E.F. handy rifle or the Magnum Research B.F.R. along for a walk in the woods or in persuit of other game just itching for the chance to smoke some bacon


BFR's are crazy huge. Cylinders the size of a campbell soup can:lol:


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## junkman

Perferator said:


> BFR's are crazy huge. Cylinders the size of a campbell soup can:lol:


 Makes Dirty Harry's look like a pea shooter:lol:


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## shop tom

I've thought about it some more. Sticking with the Mosin-Nagant theme, I have a few choices. The M91/30 would work for both long-range shooting, and if need be, long-range bayonetting. For short rang work, my M-44 does the trick with both bullet and bayonet, with the added advantage of instantly cooking the pig with the legendary Mosin fireball. 

But I will probably use my M91/59. Still fireball capable, but a good pound or so less than the M-44, and more accurate. And the recoil..............



tom


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## junkman

The MN is a great choice for pigs I would say + the amo can be found pretty cost effective


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## TrekJeff

I say go as big as you can handle. These critters turn into the hunter if they are wounded. The last thing I want to do is to enter into some thick brush to track a wounded pig. Wound a big boar with turned out teeth and you could find yourself in a whole different world. I'd adamantly recommend a big caliber 30+. Save the rim fires and bean field guns for thier inteded purposes.


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## Perferator

TrekJeff said:


> Save the rim fires and bean field guns for thier inteded purposes.


....or learn to speed climb trees:lol:


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## Ed Bergeron

For hogs I've been carrying 140gr .357 Magnum Hornady Leverevolutions in my 6" GP100. I've read that others swear by 180gr Federal Premium Castcores, which report a muzzle velocity of 1,259 fps, and muzzle energy of 625 ft-lbs. But the Leverevolution FTX record a muzzle velocity of 1,440 fps, and 644 ft-lbs. of muzzle energy. So this means that the lighter-weight Leverevolutions actually have more knock-down power, right?


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## junkman

Ed Bergeron said:


> For hogs I've been carrying 140gr .357 Magnum Hornady Leverevolutions in my 6" GP100. I've read that others swear by 180gr Federal Premium Castcores, which report a muzzle velocity of 1,259 fps, and muzzle energy of 625 ft-lbs. But the Leverevolution FTX record a muzzle velocity of 1,440 fps, and 644 ft-lbs. of muzzle energy. So this means that the lighter-weight Leverevolutions actually have more knock-down power, right?


 In theory yes but the numbers don't always tell the truth. Leverevolution amo is designed to perform the best out of a lever action rifle. Wich has a much longer barrel than a hand gun. Giving the powder more time to burn in the barrel. And give the bullet more time to pickup speed and energy.


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## M1Garand

Leverevolutions were designed so bullets with higher ballistic coefficients could be used in leverguns. Higher BC's mean more downrange energy and extending range. I don't know exactly why they would load them in handguns other then for the increased BC....but I have to wonder if there'd be much advantage or gain except in certain handguns. And FWIW, I chrony'd some 200 grn Leverevolutions out of a co workers 35 Rem and they were 150 fps less then claimed velocity. 

All things being equal in a bullet, the heavier bullet will penetrate more. If someone were using a handgun such as the GP100, the cast core would be a great choice. As said, you have to read more than just the numbers. The shape of the cast core will make them hit not only harder, but penetrate deeper which is probably why you are hearing such good things about them. Randy Garrett of Garrett Cartridges uses cast in his 45-70 Hammerheads and reports outpenetrating 458 mags. He also reported penetrating a cape buffalo lengthwise. There are many other good bullet choices but IMO cast bullets are awesome in hunting handgun and some rifle rounds. 

Junkman, most powder is burned in the few inchs of a barrel. The bullet keeps accelerating due to expanding gases. At a certain point, they will no longer accelerate but this occurs with barrels that are in the mid 30" length.


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## Ed Bergeron

Thanks guys, I very much appreciate the additional information and clarification regarding Leverevolutions vs. hard cast. I guess I'll have to mail order the heavy hard cast .357 magnum ammunition, for I haven't been able to find it in the stores.


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## Perferator

Ed Bergeron said:


> Thanks guys, I very much appreciate the additional information and clarification regarding Leverevolutions vs. hard cast. I guess I'll have to mail order the heavy hard cast .357 magnum ammunition, for I haven't been able to find it in the stores.


Have you checked a Gander Mountain? It seems to me they carry some hard cast bullets....but I cant remember for sure since it's not my load.


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## donbtanner

This one I took on the family ranch near San Antonio TX.











Taken in open country w\ 30-06 @ about 100 yds. He weighed 200#. Suprisingly he still ran about 50 yds even though I put one right in the boiler room. Sometimes we will walk some of the ravines and bottoms for these things in pretty tight cover. I always use my 12 ga BPS w\ buckshot in that application... fast moving game in thick cover 25-40 yds distance, give me the scatter gun. So, I guess it depends on how you will hunt them.... one word of caution.... if you wound one of these things and go after it into thick cover, be prepared for one PO'd bowling ball coming after you in a hurry. I would not be caught w\o the scatter gun for sure then.....

Good Luck,


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## HoytRLWinstonGuy

I've been looking out for them with my Glock 29 in 10mm. Double Tap makes a gas checked cast 200gr round that spits out of the muzzle at 725 ftlbs.


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## predator_caller

Most will work but shot placement is definately a key. of all these: none had an exit would but the 2 little ones.

.223 close range.










.223 @ 157 yds (base of the ear shot)











.243 (106 yds)




















.308 (preferred choice now)



















After spending 37 years in Michigan and wishing there was more to hunt there: these things are a real problem. There is alot of money spent on hogs every year. heck maybe that's what it will take to boost michigans suffering economy. lord knows the wonderous government (at the state level anyhow) has done enough to throw it out the window.


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## HoytRLWinstonGuy

awesome pics


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