# DNR officers should think about doing their job



## Queequeg (Aug 10, 2007)

I've been in favor of starting a volunteer program during peak season where people could get trained to be part time co's. They could sign up for weekends at different locations, pay them hourly from the tickets they write. Spend an hour at Tippy and the state could make bank. 


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## Tron322 (Oct 29, 2011)

I am from kent county and I am checked by one CO all the time, one stop was during turkey season and he told me that he patrols 3 counties with another CO. The area was Kent, Allegan, and Ottawa counties.

During the fall salmon run I am sure he not only gets calls for salmon snagging but also hunting violations with deer, small game, and waterfowl. other species fishing violations. tresspassing calls, people dumping trash, people off-roading in closed areas, etc. all of these vioations that he or she needs to respond to in a multi county area.

On top of that that CO needs to also write reports that lead to convictions of those violators, prosecutors will not charge someone without a good report, after that the CO may have to show up to court and take the stand.

It bugs me too when I call and no one comes, down here it is guys standing too close to the fish ladder at 6th street has probly been my number 1 call.



GVDocHoliday said:


> You have to remember that the Indians are able to do these activities.


kind of off topic but I am a member of one of these indian tribes, I have seasons and am not allowed to snag, not sure what activity you are talking about but if it is the activity is snagging then your source is wrong.

I hope those on the rivers don't believe someone when they say "I am indian I can do this". For my tribe I need a current hunting fishing licence, if I am netting i need to buy a commercial licence, and if I am spearing I need to let my tribes natural resources department know where and when I am doing it.

I guess what i am saying is call the RAP hotline on any activity you guys think is not right, maybe some other tribe can still snag but the state and the tribes came to an agreement a few years ago and I was led to believe that all the tribes now have the same regulations, which would mean no salmon snagging.


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## FredBearYooper (Oct 5, 2009)

Tron322 said:


> kind of off topic but I am a member of one of these indian tribes, I have seasons and am not allowed to snag, not sure what activity you are talking about but if it is the activity is snagging then your source is wrong.
> 
> I hope those on the rivers don't believe someone when they say "I am indian I can do this". For my tribe I need a current hunting fishing licence, if I am netting i need to buy a commercial licence, and if I am spearing I need to let my tribes natural resources department know where and when I am doing it.
> 
> I guess what i am saying is call the RAP hotline on any activity you guys think is not right, maybe some other tribe can still snag but the state and the tribes came to an agreement a few years ago and I was led to believe that all the tribes now have the same regulations, which would mean no salmon snagging.


Thank you..I am a member of the Sault Tribe and we haven't been allowed to snag in years...yet uneducated people still think we can..even when we were allowed to I was against it.


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## near0921 (Nov 22, 2011)

Queequeg- I have to agree with you for the volunteer program - the wife and I just talked about this last night on our way back from fishing one of the known rivers.....I could have ticketed around 50-75% of the people we saw. It is sad to think these people feel good about the "catch" they are taking home. Funny when you talk to people and ask what they are using and they hesitate to tell you and they get nervous and start walking away from you - lol.


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

COs are state police and may handle warrants and felonies as part of a stop. The "tickets" are misdemeanors and must be handled like every other crime which includes reports to prosecutors so that charges can be brought. The defendant may opt for a jury trial which includes court time. Do you people really think you can train citizens to be state cops and deal with all this? As far as the state making money, except for 10 dollars to the game fund the fines go to the county of jurisdiction. The county would most likely house the prisoner should jail time be added to the sentence. It's not like writing a ticket for blowing a stop sign. And if you don't like any of this, contact your legislative representives to change it.


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## JimP (Feb 8, 2002)

brookie1 said:


> COs are state police and may handle warrants and felonies as part of a stop. The "tickets" are misdemeanors and must be handled like every other crime which includes reports to prosecutors so that charges can be brought. The defendant may opt for a jury trial which includes court time. Do you people really think you can train citizens to be state cops and deal with all this? As far as the state making money, except for 10 dollars to the game fund the fines go to the county of jurisdiction. The county would most likely house the prisoner should jail time be added to the sentence. It's not like writing a ticket for blowing a stop sign. And if you don't like any of this, contact your legislative representives to change it.


Yup, you can't expect citizens to be like meter maids and run around handing out snagging tickets.
When making contact with lawbreakers it can be a dangerous chore for even trained LEO's.
Look at the frequent army of belligerent drunks at Tippy at 2:00 in the morning.
An armed, experienced LEO and responsive backup are the only way to go.


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## RML (Apr 24, 2009)

Need to hire trained Temp.CO's on commission only for peak season. The more tickets they write the more they get paid. Take out the trash and make there own paycheck..This is what companies do when they have more work then they can handle, hire temps!! I'm quite sure there are laid off police/ sherrif officers that would need minimal training that could start in a couple weeks..


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

RML said:


> Need to hire trained Temp.CO's on commission only for peak season. The more tickets they write the more they get paid. Take out the trash and make there own paycheck..This is what companies do when they have more work then they can handle, hire temps!! I'm quite sure there are laid off police/ sherrif officers that would need minimal training that could start in a couple weeks..


As has already been pointed out, except for 10 dollars to the game and fish fund, fines levied by courts go to the local county of jurisdiction processing the case. Where is the money supposed to come from to pay the temps? Who will pay for office space, vehicles, etc. If there was money for more COs, more COs would be working.


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

near0921 said:


> Queequeg- I have to agree with you for the volunteer program - the wife and I just talked about this last night on our way back from fishing one of the known rivers.....I could have ticketed around 50-75% of the people we saw. It is sad to think these people feel good about the "catch" they are taking home. Funny when you talk to people and ask what they are using and they hesitate to tell you and they get nervous and start walking away from you - lol.


When you see percentages like that violating, its usually an indication that the rules are opposite that of the "social will" of the majority. Maybe with all this new polling of the public and "social management" in fish management, we should poll the fishing public as to whether they want snagging reinstated. I mean, some here say there was no science in the decision to ban it to begin with.


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## JimP (Feb 8, 2002)

Ranger Ray said:


> When you see percentages like that violating, its usually an indication that the rules are opposite that of the "social will" of the majority. Maybe with all this new polling of the public and "social management" in fish management, we should poll the fishing public as to whether they want snagging reinstated. I mean, some here say there was no science in the decision to ban it to begin with.


The problem is that it's not selective.
Yes, the salmon are going to die.

It's the effect on the other species like trout, walleye, and others that are inadvertantly killed or seriously wounded.

Not to mention the safety factor of 3 oz lead weights flying around in the dark.


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## LSSUfishmaster (Aug 4, 2008)

I was reluctant to click on this thread and just see a bunch of CO bashing but Im happily surprised to see you guys standing up for the officers. They are an extreme small minority trying to stop a large group of people spread out over a large area. Out west any permanent employee of Fish and Game can write a citation. That includes fish techs, biologists, and managers. It definitely helps increase the presence of the department on the river. However very few citations are written by non-law enforcement personal. They simply arent trained to handle confrontation.


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

LSSUfishmaster said:


> Out west any permanent employee of Fish and Game can write a citation. That includes fish techs, biologists, and managers. It definitely helps increase the presence of the department on the river. However very few citations are written by non-law enforcement personal. They simply arent trained to handle confrontation.


Are those civil infractions or misdemeanors.


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## limpinglogan (Sep 23, 2009)

I don't think any individual CO is not doing thier job...they are just not enough of them to have a real presence. 

I fish at least 1X per week all over Michigan and I have never been stopped ...or even seen a CO on the water.

I have stopped a couple times while hunting...never while fishing...I can't even think of the last time I saw a DNR vehicle any where.


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## Queequeg (Aug 10, 2007)

Ranger Ray said:


> When you see percentages like that violating, its usually an indication that the rules are opposite that of the "social will" of the majority. Maybe with all this new polling of the public and "social management" in fish management, we should poll the fishing public as to whether they want snagging reinstated. I mean, some here say there was no science in the decision to ban it to begin with.


I'm not sure the frequency of violators means the law is unjust. Take speeding while driving. The vast majority of drivers speed but that doesn't mean speed limits are unjust. Human nature as a whole is self centered. 

That being said, I have posted in the past that allowing snagging on certain rivers/parts of rivers may not be a bad idea. Allow it on rivers with little or no natural reproduction and at dams. Then the co's could concentrate on other rivers with natural reproduction (Betsie etc). 


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

limpinglogan said:


> I don't think any individual CO is not doing thier job...they are just not enough of them to have a real presence.
> 
> I fish at least 1X per week all over Michigan and I have never been stopped ...or even seen a CO on the water.
> 
> I have stopped a couple times while hunting...never while fishing...I can't even think of the last time I saw a DNR vehicle any where.


I used to see C.O.'s several times a year in the 80's, especially on piers and at popular access sites during duck season but not very often anymore. This spring I saw one at an access on Lake Charlevoix and was mighty surprised. I'd be willing to pay more for licenses if I new it went to enforcement. Just wish I knew how to make it go there instead of some sort of shell game being played.


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## WacoKid (May 6, 2012)

This is a joke u can't stop snagging and spearing just won't happen and the last thing I want is some power hungry yuppie thinking he can spy and scope out everyone fishing if it bothers u leave u know there spots where people snagging so why go there!!!!!Let the dnr do there job last time I checked there was still fish in this state.


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## FredBearYooper (Oct 5, 2009)

WacoKid said:


> This is a joke u can't stop snagging and spearing just won't happen and the last thing I want is some power hungry yuppie thinking he can spy and scope out everyone fishing if it bothers u leave u know there spots where people snagging so why go there!!!!!Let the dnr do there job last time I checked there was still fish in this state.
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


My I.Q. went down reading this..Making sure people follow the rules is the whole point of those "power hungry yuppies" job.


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

Queequeg said:


> I'm not sure the frequency of violators means the law is unjust. Take speeding while driving. The vast majority of drivers speed but that doesn't mean speed limits are unjust. Human nature as a whole is self centered.
> 
> That being said, I have posted in the past that allowing snagging on certain rivers/parts of rivers may not be a bad idea. Allow it on rivers with little or no natural reproduction and at dams. Then the co's could concentrate on other rivers with natural reproduction (Betsie etc).
> 
> ...


Well when you put in context of how our fisheries is advocating management by "social science" when biology is indifferent, it would certainly bring to question the reasoning of the law. Last I checked the state was not advocating public opinion into traffic management.


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## janddp (May 13, 2009)

kzoofisher said:


> I used to see C.O.'s several times a year in the 80's, especially on piers and at popular access sites during duck season but not very often anymore. This spring I saw one at an access on Lake Charlevoix and was mighty surprised. I'd be willing to pay more for licenses if I new it went to enforcement. Just wish I knew how to make it go there instead of some sort of shell game being played.


I would be willing to pay double for the fishing and hunting licenses if it went straight to hiring more CO's. I hate seeing people out there trashing areas and poaching.

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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

I know two retired cos and both say they would rather work security at wamart than work salmon season on the rivers. They were both good cos and were gungho in other regards.


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## RML (Apr 24, 2009)

I have family in Mo.and I have hunted and fished down there my whole life.. Down there Salmon season wouldn't be a issue.They have 4X the CO's. New conservation building , new trucks and if you are a poacher you had better watch out. Somehow they keep everyones hand out of there Conservations Departments cookie jar full of money.That's the first thing we need to change!!! Even out in the feild you had better be folowing the laws you have a 50/50 chance you will be stopped. There CO Department should be the model for the rest of the states. There big game automated check-in is second to none for those who follow the law and check-in there animals( also it's very easy).

Double the lic. fees or what ever but don't just sit around saying we ain't got no money for this or that and that's why we suck...That's not a good excuse. Fix it..


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## Steve_D (Mar 8, 2011)

This summer, I've probably witnessed 10-15 fish caught and kept illegally. I have called the RAP hotline 6 times, two of those I got a call from the DNR officer who asked where it was at, and couldn't find it himself. The other four times, there was never a response, never an officer sent, and never anything done about it.

Economy is more important than our ecology. Half of these officers couldn't tell the difference between a bass and a pike. I gave up.


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## salmonguy10 (Dec 24, 2011)

plugger said:


> I know two retired cos and both say they would rather work security at wamart than work salmon season on the rivers. They were both good cos and were gungho in other regards.


Well there you have it..they don't like doing there job so they just do the least they can...I'm not saying all of them are like that I just wish they were all 110% into helping and saving the environment and the things in it


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## salmo'dog (Aug 24, 2007)

Steve_D said:


> Economy is more important than our ecology. Half of these officers couldn't tell the difference between a bass and a pike. I gave up.


You are such a ray of sunshine and a positive influence to all anglers.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

I believe they have 14 days to total 80 hours. 3.5 days straight = 10.5 days off. There is no mandate for peak operating hours. As members of AFSME do you expect them to really put an effort in? Remember any Officer of the State is sworn to uphold the Laws of the State, your local Township Officers & Sherriff Dept. are sworn to duty, call them when you get no response from MDNR.


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## JerryBoy1984 (Sep 6, 2010)

salmonguy10 said:


> Yea I guess your right..well all I know is that something has to change with all the snagging going on these days...anyone have any respect for the fish????it's a great sport and people just are too lazy and too impatient these days I what I think it is


Thats exactly what it is...they see 30 fish in a hole and they can't not catch a fish....their just lazy...snaggers show up to the river and they don't even have waders.....it seems like half the snaggers never even fish any other time of the year besides salmon season...they have no clue what is going on....i think that if you get caught snagging you should have your fishing license banned for life.......it is disgusting...nothing worse than getting up early getting a spot, fishing legit by swinging streamers, floating skein or casting hardware and some leroy shows up at noon in his lee dungarees, no waders and just starts casting in your spot with a rod for marlin fishing.


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## WacoKid (May 6, 2012)

Hey I love trout fishing as much as the next guy and don't snag ever but what some people need to understand is that not everybody eats at the country club every night and fishes for fun some need every fish or deer they can get for there family.God put animals here for a reason to eat not for bragging to your friends about how you caught and released 5 salmon because you are the greatest fisherman and above anyone who takes fish home to eat.wish people would remember what fishing and hunting is about.

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## JerryBoy1984 (Sep 6, 2010)

jimp said:


> The problem is that it's not selective.
> Yes, the salmon are going to die.
> 
> It's the effect on the other species like trout, walleye, and others that are inadvertantly killed or seriously wounded.
> ...



I dunno what anyone would think that is a legit excuse to snag...the salmon are going to die...100% correct....but the salmon have to spawn...you snag and keep them before they spawn you have no natural reproduction...the excuse that they are going to die is the lamest ***** anyone would come up with.


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## JerryBoy1984 (Sep 6, 2010)

WacoKid said:


> Hey I love trout fishing as much as the next guy and don't snag ever but what some people need to understand is that not everybody eats at the country club every night and fishes for fun some need every fish or deer they can get for there family.God put animals here for a reason to eat not for bragging to your friends about how you caught and released 5 salmon because you are the greatest fisherman and above anyone who takes fish home to eat.wish people would remember what fishing and hunting is about.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


why are the people that need food spending money on rods and 50 lb test and time they could be spending finding a job or going to school to get a good job on the river....they have no business being there in the first place...they cant afford waders half the time and salmon in the river isnt that good anyways...even a fish a week in the river often times tastes bad even if it looks pretty fresh


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## sjk984 (Jan 4, 2010)

JerryBoy1984 said:


> why are the people that need food spending money on rods and 50 lb test and time they could be spending finding a job or going to school to get a good job on the river....they have no business being there in the first place...they cant afford waders half the time and salmon in the river isnt that good anyways...even a fish a week in the river often times tastes bad even if it looks pretty fresh


LOL. 

We probably stocked their coolers with the families food stamps.....

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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

METTLEFISH said:


> I believe they have 14 days to total 80 hours. 3.5 days straight = 10.5 days off. There is no mandate for peak operating hours. As members of AFSME do you expect them to really put an effort in?


Not really how it works. 


Posted from my iPhone.


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## Steve_D (Mar 8, 2011)

salmo'dog said:


> You are such a ray of sunshine and a positive influence to all anglers.
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine



You obviously read that wrong.


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## sjk984 (Jan 4, 2010)

dead short said:


> Not really how it works.
> 
> 
> Posted from my iPhone.


His comment is obviously anti union.

I see you all over the place and been contacted a few times. 
Hunting
Spearing
Fishing rivers and the bay
Snowmobiling
Duck hunting




Alot of us appreciate what you are doing.

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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Unless it has changed, it was that you had 14 days in a pay period. you had to reach 80 hours in that period, perhaps it was / is 40 per week, so you could work 1 3/4 days and reach your hours, then the truck stays parked in the drive way.....


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

METTLEFISH said:


> Unless it has changed, it was that you had 14 days in a pay period. you had to reach 80 hours in that period, perhaps it was / is 40 per week, so you could work 1 3/4 days and reach your hours, then the truck stays parked in the drive way.....


Are you sure you're not thinking of Matt Millen?


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

METTLEFISH said:


> Unless it has changed, it was that you had 14 days in a pay period. you had to reach 80 hours in that period, perhaps it was / is 40 per week, so you could work 1 3/4 days and reach your hours, then the truck stays parked in the drive way.....


No way this is right. I wish I knew where you got your info. About the only thing correct in there is that we work a 80 hour biweekly pay period, like most full time law enforcement. Using your logic I only have to work 87 days a year. That would be nice. We probably work more than that in Saturdays and Sundays alone. 


Posted from my iPhone.


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## salmonguy10 (Dec 24, 2011)

JerryBoy1984 said:


> I dunno what anyone would think that is a legit excuse to snag...the salmon are going to die...100% correct....but the salmon have to spawn...you snag and keep them before they spawn you have no natural reproduction...the excuse that they are going to die is the lamest ***** anyone would come up with.


Beautifully said


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## quest32a (Sep 25, 2001)

What a silly thread. DNR officers do a fantastic job with very limited resources. No need to continue this discussion.


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