# Not enough outside air?



## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

During the winter months we have a problem with moisture on the windows. This is WITHOUT running the humidifier. I know this house is built extremely tight, with a ton of insulation. There's a direct vent intake, which appears to be a 5", that comes directly in from outside and into the cold air vent.

Am I not getting enough outside air inside or, am I not venting out enough air? Its causing mold to form on the Anderson wood windows and I need to get this stopped. I run a dehumidifier in the basement 100%, year round.....


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## WoW. (Aug 11, 2011)

It could be a combination of issues?

Is it occurring on all windows or just some of them?


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## MikeMP5 (Aug 3, 2011)

ENCORE said:


> During the winter months we have a problem with moisture on the windows. This is WITHOUT running the humidifier. I know this house is built extremely tight, with a ton of insulation. There's a direct vent intake, which appears to be a 5", that comes directly in from outside and into the cold air vent.
> 
> Am I not getting enough outside air inside or, am I not venting out enough air? Its causing mold to form on the Anderson wood windows and I need to get this stopped. I run a dehumidifier in the basement 100%, year round.....


 
I would think a medium sized dehumidifier used as necessary could help your situation in the upper portion of your home. 

Do you have central air as well?


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## MikeMP5 (Aug 3, 2011)

also, some other things come to mind...

do you have a bathtub/hottub that gets used regularly on the main floor?

Ventilation of the bathrooms, etc., is there an adequate-sized fan?


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

WoW. said:


> It could be a combination of issues?
> 
> Is it occurring on all windows or just some of them?


All the windows (13) plus the three 8' sliders. There's no window that's spared.

I had the home custom built and its wrapped tight and insulated full tilt! Even the *inside walls are insulated*. Its extremely easy to cool and then stay cool, same with the heat. Actually, its outstanding for maintaining either heat or cool. The attic is filled with the trusses covered at the eves, shooting air up. Garage is fully insulated along with the attic in the garage. There's no doubt what so ever, this place is insulated great. NewWol insulation.

House has 2 full baths and one large 1/2 bath. Each has the largest ceiling exhaust fan (qfpm) that I could find at the time I built. All fans are ducted and exhaust outdoors. All operate correctly. Although we have a whorlpool in the master, it hasn't been used only 5 or 6 times in six years. Something I wish now we hadn't installed....

I'm inclined to think that its too insulated or sealed and the moisture actually may be from our breathing. Kinda like being at hunting camp in the 5th wheel and having the windows get moisture on the inside, cold out heat on. I have a humidifier installed on the furnace but, its NEVER used because of the moisture on the windows. It operates properly.

Natural gas, forced air furnace, high efficiency and draws burning air from outside, exhaust vents through the blocks. Cold air vents in every room except the kitchen and bathrooms. Natural gas fireplace, which is lightly used. Natural gas water heater, draws burning air from outside, exhaust vent through the blocks.

As dry as the air gets up here in the winter, its hard to understand why I'm having moisture in the living areas. The dehumidifier in the basement rarely operates except in the summer months.


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## ih772 (Jan 28, 2003)

That's crazy, it seems like you're not exchanging enough air from the outside to the main living area. Like you say, maybe its insulated too well.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

ih772 said:


> That's crazy, it seems like you're not exchanging enough air from the outside to the main living area. Like you say, maybe its insulated too well.


I know that there is a thing as too well insulated. Actually its not over insulated but, there's not enough air exchanged. When my dad built his retirement home, he sealed it up like a tin can also. He had a wood buring fireplace and when ever he burned it, septic odor would come into the house. He was litterly burning up the air in the house. He had a furnace guy come over and install an air inlet to the furnace, which completely stopped the issue.

But..... I have a 5" outside air intake 


All windows, including the three 8' sliders are Anderson


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

With an ultra tight house you may need to install an air exchanger. It exchanges indoor air with outdoor air while retaining the heat in the house. There are health benifits besides the humidty issue in an ultra tight house.


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## tinmarine (Nov 19, 2007)

There is an option that will help, but it is a bit costly. Canada has mandated that every new house built have an HRV (heat recovery ventilator). It basically exchanges outside air giving the house the proper amount of whole house air exchanges. There is another unit that is designed for warmer climates that does the same thing. It's called an ERV (energy recovery ventilator) does the same thing, but it has a dissacant (sp?) wheel in it and it will pull the humidity out of the air. This is primarily used in the south in heavy humidity areas.

Take a look at this.

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/housingandclothing/dk7284.html

While you may get sticker shock, it may be a fix to the problem and save your windows from damage as well as prevent mold from forming in areas not seen.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

tinmarine said:


> There is an option that will help, but it is a bit costly. Canada has mandated that every new house built have an HRV (heat recovery ventilator). It basically exchanges outside air giving the house the proper amount of whole house air exchanges. There is another unit that is designed for warmer climates that does the same thing. It's called an ERV (energy recovery ventilator) does the same thing, but it has a dissacant (sp?) wheel in it and it will pull the humidity out of the air. This is primarily used in the south in heavy humidity areas.
> 
> Take a look at this.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the link. I have the business that did all the heating and cooling coming, sometime within the next week or so, to install a different dryer exhaust. I'll talk with them about it and it may take a powered fan to bring air into and/or out of the house. I saved and printed the information out in the link and will show it to the wife this morning.

Thanks again..


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## roger23 (Jan 14, 2001)

I think if I understand the 5" is hooked into your cold air return,if so I think when you introduce cold air into the system you are getting condensation from the cold air,the furnace should have a pipe 2" to 4" depending on efficiency and length to out side,connected to the burner area,if the house is sealed real tight ,they normally install a air intake with a damper on it so when you turn on a vent fan it brings in the proper amount make up air,,hard to explain I would have the house tested if you can't resolve the problem,Maybe someone is not using the kitchen and bathroom vent fans ,,my wife does not like the noise of the kitchen fan so does not use it a lot she will boil stuff then bitch about condensation on the kitchen window


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## 2Lungs (Mar 18, 2008)

I have the same problem. I have cen. air and once air is off for the summer I run my de-hum until house is dry with two windows cracked (which takes 2- 3 months) . I think the air exchanger is the way to go but its costly.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

roger23 said:


> I think if I understand the 5" is hooked into your cold air return,if so I think when you introduce cold air into the system you are getting condensation from the cold air,the furnace should have a pipe 2" to 4" depending on efficiency and length to out side,connected to the burner area,if the house is sealed real tight ,they normally install a air intake with a damper on it so when you turn on a vent fan it brings in the proper amount make up air....


This is exactly how its hooked up. The 5" is connected to the cold air return w/damper and because of the hi-efficency furnace, there's also an outside air intake to the burner.


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## Natehazen24 (Mar 25, 2006)

I work for a Home Energy company & with all of the Building Science Stratigies, this could be caused by a number of reasons & your home would have to be tested to to find the actual causes. If you are interested in a Home Energy Assessment, give me a call. We run into this type of situation & can solve your problems. Every home tells a story, we like reading the book. My name is Cathi Albright & my number is 517-646-4026.


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## tinmarine (Nov 19, 2007)

The fresh air intake won't work for your house. As you have found out. Since your house is tighter than a frog's ass you don't have exfiltration. If there is no way to get rid of the air, you can not take air in. You'd be in essence pressurizing your house. Your furnace doesn't have the capabilities to do that. The only way it gets rid of the air is when someone opens a door, window or by mechanical means. Your high eff furnace pulls combustion air from the outside and exhausts it as well. It's a closed loop running from the outside through the exchanger and out via the draft motor. There is no way that can contribute to a whole house air exchange. Until you install a unit that will pull air from the outside AND vent it as well, your air will continue to stagnate and humidity will rise. 

You can not pull air into the house unless you force air out.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

I've got a guy coming over either in the next couple days or, the first of next week, to cut and install another dryer vent. Actually, he's the same guy that did the heating/cooling when we built the house. I'll have him get to the bottom of it. But as stated above, if you're pulling air in, air has to go out.


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## fishenrg (Jan 9, 2008)

I would recommend getting a blower door test done on your home. This way you will know just how tight (or too tight) your home is. It definitely sounds to me that it is too tight. Some HVAC companies do blower door testing, or energy auditors do too. I wouldn't recommend a full energy assessment, just the blower door and use the results to determine how much fresh air you need to bring in.


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## PLUMMER47 (Dec 9, 2006)

Alot of the energy audit/assesment companies are just trying to make sales. I would only use a highly qualified HVAC company that can do an AE/H test and this will tell you correctly what your options and next step will be. Is the gas logs DV'd or are they HE and venting to the living space? THey create tons of moisture. Your burner is completely sealed and separate from your living air. i.e. sealed combustion and thus the intake/exhaust combo. Have you thought of a cracked heat exchanger? Do you have a combustion air for the HW? Size BTU or the HW? You could leave an upstairs window open/cracked and see what that does. Does the damper work properly on your 5" make up air? If your creating negitive air pressure it will swing open when your furnace blower turns on. Regardless of the stagnate air the furn should cook the air dry in the winter, thus why we usually add humidifiers to the furn that only operate during winter months.


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## fishenrg (Jan 9, 2008)

PLUMMER47 said:


> Alot of the energy audit/assesment companies are just trying to make sales. I would only use a highly qualified HVAC company that can do an AE/H test and this will tell you correctly what your options and next step will be.


Because an HVAC company would never be trying to make sales!


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## ih772 (Jan 28, 2003)

fishenrg said:


> Because an HVAC company would never be trying to make sales!


Like pushing those POS tankless water heaters.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

PLUMMER47 said:


> Alot of the energy audit/assesment companies are just trying to make sales. I would only use a highly qualified HVAC company that can do an AE/H test and this will tell you correctly what your options and next step will be. Is the gas logs DV'd or are they HE and venting to the living space? THey create tons of moisture. Your burner is completely sealed and separate from your living air. i.e. sealed combustion and thus the intake/exhaust combo. Have you thought of a cracked heat exchanger? Do you have a combustion air for the HW? Size BTU or the HW? You could leave an upstairs window open/cracked and see what that does. Does the damper work properly on your 5" make up air? If your creating negitive air pressure it will swing open when your furnace blower turns on. Regardless of the stagnate air the furn should cook the air dry in the winter, thus why we usually add humidifiers to the furn that only operate during winter months.


I'm going to print out a number of the responses that I've received, and provide them to the guy when comes over to install the dryer vent. I know that the gas fireplace that I had installed, brings in burner air from one part of the flue, while the exhaust goes out also. The NG fireplace is completely sealed and has a heat chamber, sucking cool air off the floor and a variable speed blower, which blows out the heated air. I'm totally sure, as I've had the fireplace apart a couple times.


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## PLUMMER47 (Dec 9, 2006)

99% of the energy audit companies are no where nearly as qualified or equipped as a good HVAC company. And 99% of them sell you more than what you need or need at all. Especially government sub or related companies. They are just trying to work off of tax funded subsidies. With an HVAC you almost always can first hand see and read the results, something I know Encore can understand obviously. Pushing a product or recommendation only goes as far as your decision to do so. Which can initially start with your choice of the cheapest or most qualified contractor you call out.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

Well, just exactly what I thought. Everything was checked over by the HVAC guy and just as I figured, the house is to tight.

There was discussion concerning how to move some of the air out of the house. Some of the discussion would have ment that we would have been moving warm air out during the winter. Such as timers on the exhaust vents in the bathrooms.....

However, the best way is with an air exchanger. We discussed the square footage, etc. and he's going to discuss options with the different manufacturers that he uses. It appears that some of these systems can be pretty expensive, depending on the application. He explained how they had just installed a system in a large full log home and it wasn't cheap.

That said, I have no clue where, what, how or anything else about these exchangers. I don't have a clue which manufacturer to stay from, which is a good product and/or the average cost for the unit and installation......

Any help will be appreciated.....


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## Sling (Aug 2, 2005)

I think you need to determine how many air changes per hour you currently have.....and what the target air changes per hour is.....that will determine what equipment is needed


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

Sling said:


> I think you need to determine how many air changes per hour you currently have.....and what the target air changes per hour is.....that will determine what equipment is needed


There are a couple samples that I have found on the internet, but we'll see what the HVAC guy comes up with. He's pretty familiar with the house and the current systems. First thing he needed was the square footage.

One CODE that I found if from Minnesota. For non-energy recovery units, it's based on the number of bedrooms, each with a minimum of 15cfm and a total ventilation capacity equal to 0.05cfm/square foot. It also discusses increased ventilation for "special needs", such as hobbies and excessiver moisture.


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## fishenrg (Jan 9, 2008)

Sling said:


> I think you need to determine how many air changes per hour you currently have.....and what the target air changes per hour is.....that will determine what equipment is needed


I agree with this 100%. If he doesn't do a blower door test then he is just guessing and only trying to sell you something. The current ventilation standards that I see most frequently in my work is ASHRAE 62.2


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

fishenrg said:


> I agree with this 100%. If he doesn't do a blower door test then he is just guessing and only trying to sell you something. The current ventilation standards that I see most frequently in my work is ASHRAE 62.2


I guess we'll just have to wait and see what he comes up with, in terms of checking. I can pretty much assure that the only air exchange that I get right now, is when I open the door. And that's if the fan on the furnace is on and sucking in the fresh air into the cold air return.

Lots of excellent information for me and I thank everyone for it. One of by buddy's sent me a couple links, one of which listed almost every HRV/ERV manufactured and sold in the United States. They actually grade them on a scale of 1 to 5 in two ways. First the unit and how well it operates, repairs, etc. The second is for what kind of warrantee it has. Some brands are made in China, Ireland, or Italy and with "0" warrantee and a very poor overall rating. Some have "so called" Brand names.....

I put one of the dehumidifiers centrally located in the house and I'm drawing over 2 gallons in 24hrs, with the airconditioning running. The humidity in the house, as I have the dehumidifier set, is running between 45 and 46% for the last few days. Sure beats the 61% before using the dehumidifier.

Thanks everyone......


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

Well, the wife just went off when she opened up the last electric bill. Let's just say she wasn't happy and leave that part alone.

After some discussion, she called Consumers to discuss our usage. Come to find out, the idea that I had about running a dehumidifier throughout the winter, came back to bite me in the ass. Consumers did some kind of graph check (usage check) and found that we used substancially more durning the winter than average. When asked what we may have done or attached different, at the time we didn't think of anything. But... they did! They asked if we had used any kind of humidifier or dehumidifier. Thus the culpret was found. Using the dehumidifier just during the winter months, caused us an increase of $380. And..... we were still breathing the same stale air.

The wife is talking more about the air exchange system and how much its going to cost to install. From the information I was given earlier in this post, it appears that I'll need to exchange 100 cfm in the house. Someone told me that there is someone up here at Alpena Supply that has knowledge of air exchangers. It looks like a trip up to check this out is in the future, then a good HVAC guy.


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## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

Sounds like a LOT of money to run a dehumidifier!

My dad has a house up here in Troy and a condo down in Florida. He leaves for Florida in Late October and comes back home in late April or early May. He's concerned about the humidity in the basement while he's gone so he bought a new high efficient low-temp dehumidifier and put it in the basement. He runs two or three fans down there set on timers to cycle on and off. The humidifier runs 24/7. He too was concerned about what the cost would be so on February 02, I bought and installed one of those "Kill-A-Watt" usage meters and plugged the dehumidifier into it. I kept and eye on it every so often when I was over there doing some work on the house while he was out of town. From February 02 through April 28 when they got home, the overall average monthly cost was about $15/month or .50 a day. Like I said, it is set to run 24/7. I'm sure that is cycles off when the humidity reaches the desired level but that's a LOT less than what it looks like yours costs to run.

Is yours an older unit? If so, it's probably not the right type to be using in a basement. You need to use and ultra low-temp unit that is designed to remove the humidity at a much lower temperature. Usually down to about 50 degrees I think. His works very well and the humidity was always right at what the humidistat on the unit was set at. He has two or three small digital humidity gauges around the basement and they all pretty much agree and show that same thing that the gauge on the dehumidifier shows.

John


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## thumbgoodfisherman (Dec 6, 2005)

Encore, I usually don't run my dehumidifer in the winter months cause it tends to ice up on the coils, I usually don't start it up until around april. My basement usually is around 62 deg to 65 deg during the winter because I have hot water heat only on the main floor. Do you have heat in your basement and what tempature do you keep it? My windows also sweat in the old part of the house, 6 years ago I put an 800 square foot addition and that part of the house the windows don't sweat can't figure that one out either. 

In the new basement addition I put hot water heat in the floor and it makes it so nice during the winter months. I don't know if this helps the new addition for the windows from not sweating. My addition had the walls spray foamed and I am sure the original house that was constructed in the 50's is definetly under insulated, I blew in a extra foot of insulation and the walls are only 2x4's so maybe that could be cause why they only sweat in the old part of the house.

If you do put an air exchanger in and it works I'll be definetly looking in to one as well. Atleast you can be the guinea pig!!!:lol::lol:


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## thumbgoodfisherman (Dec 6, 2005)

jpollman said:


> Sounds like a LOT of money to run a dehumidifier!
> 
> My dad has a house up here in Troy and a condo down in Florida. He leaves for Florida in Late October and comes back home in late April or early May. He's concerned about the humidity in the basement while he's gone so he bought a new high efficient low-temp dehumidifier and put it in the basement. He runs two or three fans down there set on timers to cycle on and off. The humidifier runs 24/7. He too was concerned about what the cost would be so on February 02, I bought and installed one of those "Kill-A-Watt" usage meters and plugged the dehumidifier into it. I kept and eye on it every so often when I was over there doing some work on the house while he was out of town. From February 02 through April 28 when they got home, the overall average monthly cost was about $15/month or .50 a day. Like I said, it is set to run 24/7. I'm sure that is cycles off when the humidity reaches the desired level but that's a LOT less than what it looks like yours costs to run.
> 
> ...


John, can you tell me what brand this low temp dehumidifer your dad uses is? The one I have is an older one I bought at sears many moons ago.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

In the basement............ I've always had a dehumidifier running 24/7, or, at least when the humitity goes above the setting that I have it set at. But, that's not the one causing the concern or the increase in our bill.

Its an additional dehumidifier that I put upstairs, to take the humidity out of the air up there in the winter. The house is so tight, that even your breath, showers, cooking and washing the dishes makes humidity. It has no place to go, which is why the house is so humid and the windows "sweat".

I guess a way to explain it, no matter how elementary (my part ), is the house is like a balloon. Although I have a 5" air intake coming directly from outside into the cold air return duct, it can't draw enough outside air because the balloon is full and there's no way to exit existing air. Cold winter air is dry and in most cases, many people run a humidifier, either stand alone or one that is perminantly afixed to their furnace. I already have to much moisture in the house, because it can't escape. Our dehumidifier ran an outstanding amount of time, just to take the humidity down to 47%. It was dumping it about every 18 hours, as it was full. If I waited longer, it would automaticly shut off because it was full. The dehumidifier that I'm using is only about 4 years old.

I have a good friend that installed his own in his home. Of course he's a lot younger and much more fit  He's shown me how his works and he's NEVER has any moisture problems during the winter. Although he didn't put in one of the top models/brands, it works perfect. It takes all of the stale air out of the house, while it brings in an equal amount of fresh air. The air is pre-heated in the winter, so he isn't bringing ice cold air into the house. It has a control box and also a 2 speed fan, which by the way, is WHISPER QUIET!!! While he was showing me the unit, he turned the fan on hi and he showed me the intake vents, a couple of which were low enough that I could just feel the incoming fresh air. He also showed me how it exhausted the air. Definately could feel it. His unit also has a drain for the mositure is removed from the air.

I'll admit, I'm still a "rookie" and learning about this but, I know alot more about it now than I did, thanks to some of the posters links. I completely understand why Minnesota requires all "new" construction to include and air exchanger. I'm not one for lots of regulations but, I do believe Michigan should consider the same for NEW construction. It'll be interesting to find out how this is going to work out here. I guess we're just going to have to look further into the complete installed price of a unit that removes humidity (as necessary) and pre-heats the air in the winter.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

Well I picked one up today, along with all the necessary equipment. After talking with someone up here that knows what he's talking about and has installed, worked on and sold these before, it was determined that for our size home it would need 160cfm. This also includes the basement, so we're talking 4,000 sqft.

This one is pretty simple to install (notice I didn't say easy?) and air pressure will be equal. I'll hang it right next to the furnace and run one 6" into the cold air return and another into the heating part. Two 6" runs go outside, one for fresh air intake and one to remove the stale air. It also pre-heats or pre-cools the air, depending on which is running and removes moisture to what you set the control at. It'll drain right into the furnace drain for the humidifier, THAT WE'VE NEVER USED. I also purchased their top of the line control box. No need to run all the room vents in the ceiling, as stale air goes into the cold air returns and fresh air through the registers.

I also asked about someone to help (do) with installation. With enough guys looking for or, for extra work, we found someone to do that too. This is sure going to help and be different having fresh air coming into the house and stale air removed. These past years this place has been like a balloon and I'm about to fix that.

Here's the unit I picked up today.. http://www.venmar.ca/42-air-exchangers-he-1-8-nrv.html


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## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

thumbgoodfisherman said:


> John, can you tell me what brand this low temp dehumidifer your dad uses is? The one I have is an older one I bought at sears many moons ago.


Oops!

Sorry, I didn't see this until just now. I'll be going down there tomorrow or Monday and I'll find out the make and model.

John


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## thumbgoodfisherman (Dec 6, 2005)

jpollman said:


> Oops!
> 
> Sorry, I didn't see this until just now. I'll be going down there tomorrow or Monday and I'll find out the make and model.
> 
> John


I was beginning to wonder if you were giving me the amish shun!!:lol::lol: No problem John, when ever you get a chance.


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## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

No shun, I just haven't been on much lately. Going through some stuff and it's been a tough week or so. If it doesn't rain later, I'm going down there to cut his grass because he's up in Gaylord until tomorrow. I'll check to see what model that one is when I get there. It's a pretty nice one that does the job very well.


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## thumbgoodfisherman (Dec 6, 2005)

Thanks John!!


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## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

Just got back from my dad's place.

His is a Danby Premier Model #DDR7009REE

As I said earlier, it's been running since he left for Florida in late October. On February 02, I installed a Kill-A-Wat power monitor. I checked it today and it's currently at $114 used since then. That's almost five months. Not too bad I'd say. The basement isn't damp and musty at all. 

I don't know if we'll get to it this summer or not, but he wants to paint the block walls which are bare now with DryLok. That might help with the dampness too.

John


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

Got the call this afternoon from the HVAC guy that's going to install the air exchanger. He's coming Tuesday evenng to look over the area and the unit and he's talking installation on Wednesday. Sure will be glad when that's completed.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

Well its hooked up now, but we came up short on the vent jacket and I need another 25' piece to complete the unit. Mounted the control and might I say IN THE RIGHT SPOT and not like I had the heating thermostat mounted when the house was built. Vents for outside fresh air intake and stale inside exhaust are complete.

The HVAC guy can't come back until Monday and no problem there. He's bringing back the jacketed vent and in probably less than 20 minutes, everything should be totally complete. Amazing when a knowledgable person with the proper tools does the job.

We made sure everything worked properly and just set the controler to "recirculate". WOW! That thing's going to move some air!!! Whisper quiet also. No doubt this thing's going to work and do what we need it to do. Winter will be the real test...


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

All hooked up and running perfect 

At max speed, this specific model will exchange 220cfm and if you're standing outside by the vents, you can really tell! Inside the house though, with 19 registers and all the cold air returns, of course the volume isn't that noticable out of the registers. However, its exchanging air in over 4,000 sq ft of house.

Nice thing about the control, is the ability to do just about anything that one would want. Setting the outside temp max lower, will keep the unit from running when its so hot out. That is, in the program mode. Manually you can run it any time and for any amount of time. Tomorrow I'll set the programing mode, to exchange air during the middle of the night, when the outside air is the coolest. During the day, I'll set the program mode to re-circulate just the inside cool air. This winter will be the real test. So far, so good and happy with the system.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

So far both the wife and I are happy with the air exchanger. The wife is happy, because she says there's less dust in the house. Nothing like a happy wife!

We're both happy and can REALLY tell the difference with the fresh air in the whole house. The heat exchange system appears to work perfectly, as the furnace isn't running any different than normal for this time of year. Its definitely taking out humidity from the house, as evident by the water draining.

All and all, we believe we made the right decision to install that system. Winter has yet to get totally underway but, I'll report back after it really gets cold. So far..... GREAT!


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## ih772 (Jan 28, 2003)

Good to hear its working so far.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

Another update.......... Nice having fresh air in the house. To date, no moisture forming on any windows. We've found that it can actually take to much moisture from inside the house, which is easily corrected. I think we hit a winner......


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

Well the last week or so has given us the results. It was the right thing to do by installing the air exchanger.

Not one single bit of moisture anyplace. Had we known when we built, it would have been installed then. IMO it should be code for all new builds.


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## Tracker01 (Jul 6, 2010)

May I ask what it cost for the unit? As people were saying they can be expensive.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

Tracker01 said:


> May I ask what it cost for the unit? As people were saying they can be expensive.


We have about $1,800 invested. Instead of locating a heating company to install it, I asked the retailer if he knew someone looking for work on the side. Took no longer than me to put a question mark on my question and he named a couple that were working on the side or, that needed work.

This is the unit we bought http://www.venmar.ca/42-air-exchangers-he-1-8-hrv.html

Easy to install, as I helped the guy. I can certainly say, its the best home investment we've made. Like I said, IMO it should be code for new housing.


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## Gary Bontt (Jan 26, 2013)

Does this unit need the furnace running constantly to work properly? I have looked at some that only work in the existing ducting only if the furnace fan runs constant. I built my own that opens a damper and opens a exhaust fan at the same time on a programable timer. I know it doesn't heat the air but I dump the outside air into the basement to blend it and the. Have another motor controlled damper on the return plenum. Whether you go hrv or just hang a fresh duct in your return plenum and then put your bath fans on a timer it really does close to the same thing. The hepa is the big difference but buy a good hepa filter vaccuum and that will work better than any hrv can.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

Gary Bontt said:


> Does this unit need the furnace running constantly to work properly? I have looked at some that only work in the existing ducting only if the furnace fan runs constant. I built my own that opens a damper and opens a exhaust fan at the same time on a programable timer. I know it doesn't heat the air but I dump the outside air into the basement to blend it and the. Have another motor controlled damper on the return plenum. Whether you go hrv or just hang a fresh duct in your return plenum and then put your bath fans on a timer it really does close to the same thing. The hepa is the big difference but buy a good hepa filter vaccuum and that will work better than any hrv can.


The unit it completely self contained and has its own blower. It requires one 6" run to bring in fresh air and one 6" run to exhaust the stale inside air.
I believe its called a heat exchanger, as it warms the intake air by it passing through the stale air exhaust.

We hung it from the floor joist and one vent goes PAST the furnace into the run for the registers. The other goes into the cold air return PRIOR to it going into the furnace. The flexable and insulated 6" hose is run on all runs. It also has a drain at the bottom of the unit, which must be run to a drain. It takes the moisture from the house....

Forgot to mention that we bought the premier control unit, which we have upstairs. It can be used manual or you can program it.

Kinda busy for awhile today but, I'll run down and take a couple photos of how its set up and post them later.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

Got my fish cleaned 

Here's the control for upstairs










Duct work to the outside...










Hanging unit.... da gone Windows 8 flipped the pic. You'll have to figure it out...... 










Duct taking stale air out of the cold air return.........










Inside of the unit. It has two (2) removable and washable filters. The large box in the center, is the exchanger or, rather where the cold air is heated by the warm exiting stale air. This comes out and is hosed off.










SORRY........ about the pictures being rotated. I'm still getting used to Windows 8 and this new laptop. Sooner or later I'll get it figured out.


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