# 4th Zone 0r Later Dates



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

SBE II said:


> I'm confused so you're saying the a GMU will dictate what the rest of the state wants? I mean I realize that somewhat occurs now..>But after all isn't the MNDR about participation? But Regardles the z4 proposal would only include those locations west of 127 so that wouldn't be relative to z4. I'm for all GMU's not relating to any zones and being their own entity then that way it's not a time suck at the meetings and doesn't dictate what the rest of that state does. As analogy what you have described is how Chicago runs the state of IL, and the people are sick of it...
> 
> Also, Z4 open the week of thanksgiving...


listen, i'm stating the facts. nothing more, nothing less. you can bitch and complain all you want about it, i'm simply telling you WHY things are the way they are.

and FYI, GMA's in this state serve more purpose than filtering the random hunter thru the bingo process. 

pic from today.


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## duckbuster2 (Aug 14, 2008)

SBE II said:


> Yea they have and everyone I talk to or hunt with hates a 2nd week Oct opener in Z3


WELL EVERY ONE I hunt with and talk to for the last 50 years like the 2nd week in Oct. opener.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

duckbuster2 said:


> WELL EVERY ONE I hunt with and talk to for the last 50 years like the 2nd week in Oct. opener.


Question, do you target deer during firearm season?


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## duckbuster2 (Aug 14, 2008)

SBE II said:


> Question, do you target deer during firearm season?


No never, and no one I know gets in the way of duck hunting.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> listen, i'm stating the facts. nothing more, nothing less. you can bitch and complain all you want about it, i'm simply telling you WHY things are the way they are.
> 
> and FYI, GMA's in this state serve more purpose than filtering the random hunter thru the bingo process.
> 
> pic from today.


My lake looks the same way (molts are passing through and all ducks everywhere)...You can state facts all you want, I truly believe it's ignorance, just like JD said until we do something different nothing will change...


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Yeah and as our Governor is fond of saying, it takes bold decisions. Unfortunately in the case of waterfowl, that would also mean the federal government would have to make bold decisions, and we know how well they do that (anyone heard of the fiscal cliff?) :yikes:


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

SBE II said:


> My lake looks the same way (molts are passing through and all ducks everywhere)...You can state facts all you want, I truly believe it's ignorance, just like JD said until we do something different nothing will change...


see this is where i think you go wrong. you think the duck huntng world centers around what you think. you are very narrow minded....seem like your reaching out for support for your views. 

you think you have overwhelming support for your views. I think your wrong in your thinking and you don't like that i say it. 

i merely point out why things are they way they are. some of my personal preferences fall into line with yours but you are in no way encouraging me to join your fight...its kinda like your all bark, no bite. do something, rallying the troops and getting everyone all fired up on an internet board isn't gonna pass any new rules or legislation....i give ya credit for making a lot of noise tho. just an FYI, partnering up with bellyup to help your cause is kinda funny tho. must thank you for the entertainment effect there.


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## Bow Hunter Brandon (Jan 15, 2003)

SBE II said:


> My lake looks the same way (molts are passing through and all ducks everywhere)...You can state facts all you want, I truly believe it's ignorance, just like JD said until we do something different nothing will change...


Your lake has a bunch of geese sitting on it eating corn? That's impressive


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## rjmacker (Sep 3, 2011)

SBE II said:


> I'm confused so you're saying the a GMU will dictate what the rest of the state wants? I mean I realize that somewhat occurs now..>But after all isn't the MNDR about participation? But Regardles the z4 proposal would only include those locations west of 127 so that wouldn't be relative to z4. I'm for all GMU's not relating to any zones and being their own entity then that way it's not a time suck at the meetings and doesn't dictate what the rest of that state does. As analogy what you have described is how Chicago runs the state of IL, and the people are sick of it...
> 
> Also, Z4 open the week of thanksgiving...


As much as some don't like it, GMAs do somewhat dictate some waterfowl regs. Most of them have groups (Fish Point Waterfowlers, SFCHA, and St. Clair Flats) that all work very hard to keep these places going strong. So yes they do dictate more because as groups they can voice their opinoins to CWAC. Whoever makes the regs is more likely to listen to an established group rather than just a few individual people. These game areas also increase participation for those that don't have other places to hunt so that gives them more dictating power as well


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

SBE II said:


> My lake looks the same way (molts are passing through and all ducks everywhere)...


Certain areas around me have looked like that field since late November of last year.....And, I can assure you they are no where near a managed area.



Shiawassee_Kid said:


> see this is where i think you go wrong. you think the duck huntng world centers around what you think.


Completely disagree.


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## rholly2 (Feb 21, 2013)

I keep reading that people have opinions but nobody is giving reasons for their opinion. The closest I can find is because that is the way it has been of trying to change thing is hard. My reason for wanting a change is simple. While the east side of the state gets good numbers of flight birds through out their season we don't. Our numbers fall quickly when the woodies start to move out and don't start picking back up until the very end of the season. For me its not about killing birds (I've killed my share) but rather keeping my seven kids interested in the sport. I find it hard to do when they aren't seeing good numbers till right before they have to call it quit for the year. I can buy them warm clothes, wake them up early, take them to the marsh, put out dekes, and try to teach them patience....but when the birds aren't down yet they are gonna get bored and quit. We do make the 400 mile round trip to the eastside a couple times a year but if the powers above would just tweek the dates to fit the area we would be more successful in passing on great hunting experiences to our kids.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

Bow Hunter Brandon said:


> Your lake has a bunch of geese sitting on it eating corn? That's impressive


Yep so many they sheet it out then eat it again. 

Regarding support shi, everything I've stated or proposed seems to be trending in these polls...so I guess ill just keep barking..call me narrow minded because I disagree with your complacency and personal satisfaction...


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

rholly2 said:


> I keep reading that people have opinions but nobody is giving reasons for their opinion. The closest I can find is because that is the way it has been of trying to change thing is hard. My reason for wanting a change is simple. While the east side of the state gets good numbers of flight birds through out their season we don't. Our numbers fall quickly when the woodies start to move out and don't start picking back up until the very end of the season. For me its not about killing birds (I've killed my share) but rather keeping my seven kids interested in the sport. I find it hard to do when they aren't seeing good numbers till right before they have to call it quit for the year. I can buy them warm clothes, wake them up early, take them to the marsh, put out dekes, and try to teach them patience....but when the birds aren't down yet they are gonna get bored and quit. We do make the 400 mile round trip to the eastside a couple times a year but if the powers above would just tweek the dates to fit the area we would be more successful in passing on great hunting experiences to our hukids.


Solid statement, mine too is in regards to quality. Your post will probably trigger the photoshopped version of Michigan migration for dummies what the CWAC doesn't know...something to rip on guys like you and I that believe that the east side of the state is different.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

SBE II said:


> Solid statement, mine too is in regards to quality. Your post will probably trigger the photoshopped version of Michigan migration for dummies what the CWAC doesn't know...something to rip on guys like you and I that believe that the east side of the state is different.


If you didnt take the "me vs. Them" angle you would gather much more support.

You do realize all of us east siders totally agree that you guys see birds later in season? Or do you guys find its best to keep hammering that home hoping for a different outcome?

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## rholly2 (Feb 21, 2013)

SBE II said:


> Solid statement, mine too is in regards to quality. Your post will probably trigger the photoshopped version of Michigan migration for dummies what the CWAC doesn't know...something to rip on guys like you and I that believe that the east side of the state is different.



It certainly is or i wouldnt spend the extra time or money to make the trip. We only get hunting like that during the late season (4 day hunt)


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## rholly2 (Feb 21, 2013)

Its funny to me how many people will say they are for or against something but when you ask for specific reasons they can't/won't come up with any. I posted a topic asking for specifics and get a lot of views but only one response...hmmmm


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## Coldwater Charters (Sep 17, 2000)

If having a zone 4 means loosing our split I don't want it. From experience when we have hunted into Dec straight thru the birds were dispersed. Not congested like rested birds would be. You will always see more birds if no one is hunting them especially after several weeks. The split to me is the perfect situation. It congests the birds mainly from freezing water moving them to the open water holes. Hunting later into December if the season goes straight thru would give you nothing but more of the same that happened the week before. 

The split late in the season especially a 3 week one is why you have such great success on those few days. Lack of hunting pressure always makes things much better.


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## rholly2 (Feb 21, 2013)

Coldwater Charters said:


> If having a zone 4 means loosing our split I don't want it. From experience when we have hunted into Dec straight thru the birds were dispersed. Not congested like rested birds would be. You will always see more birds if no one is hunting them especially after several weeks. The split to me is the perfect situation. It congests the birds mainly from freezing water moving them to the open water holes. Hunting later into December if the season goes straight thru would give you nothing but more of the same that happened the week before.
> 
> The split late in the season especially a 3 week one is why you have such great success on those few days. Lack of hunting prejssure always makes things much better.




Finally a solid reason....thank you. Then based on your opinion would you be for taking more days from our regular season and adding it to the split. I would support that and I wouldn't care what portion we took it from as long as we got more days when the birds we finally here


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

rholly2 said:


> Finally a solid reason....thank you. Then based on your opinion would you be for taking more days from our regular season and adding it to the split. I would support that and I wouldn't care what portion we took it from as long as we got more days when the birds we finally here


i know your new to the argument. its not as simple as just taking from reg and adding to the split... 

you have a strong contingent that have no intentions of letting that split get any bigger...i can't overstate the word "strong" enough.


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## Coldwater Charters (Sep 17, 2000)

I would say this year was close to perfect. If you add more days you'll just get back to educated birds again. The 4 days was just about right IMO. The problem with a longer late split is it would take productive days away from Marsh hunters in the northern zone 3 area. They have a huge voice on what happens with our seasons now. It would be like give them an inch and they want a foot. 

Some years will be better then others and some years will just be lousy. But to have the opportunity to not have to leave the state and have a world class hunt is well worth the years that lousy is the result. If it was all limits all the time, I don't think any of us would be doing it. The challenge of the hunt is why most of us love this sport. 

It doens't take very long to educate your quarry. But the time between dumb and educated can be fantastic.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

SBE II said:


> I just try to help the Shi posse keep their post count up..


Belly holds that title, but nice try at trying to steal his thunder

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> Belly holds that title, but nice try at trying to steal his thunder
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


JD has well ove 10,000 posts, you have well over 7000 posts.. I believe that entitles you and JD to the crown of King Posters. Does anyone else even come close ? 

But who gives a crap about that. I am not seeking thunder, just later zone 3 season dates, or to be more specific, later dates for my area. This just happens to fall in Zone 3, and it is not my fault this is where it is at. If it was in Zone 1 and I felt it needed to be later in my area, I would try for that. Simply put, the only thunder stealing done around here is by the Posse.


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## Dahmer (Jan 22, 2007)

Problem solved. Got ahold of Obama and he put this on his agenda of things to be resolved.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Dahmer said:


> Problem solved. Got ahold of Obama and he put this on his agenda of things to be resolved.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


sweet. right up there with gun control and increasing welfare roles....drummin up them votes for his successor.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Dahmer said:


> Problem solved. Got ahold of Obama and he put this on his agenda of things to be resolved.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


He must have this priority right below filling out his march madness brackets, which was shown all over tv last night. GEEZ! Washington cannot solve the budget crisis, but many of them apparently have time to join in on a march madness pool!


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Bravo has always been a joke. The highbanks used to be actually really good pass shooting, like tree top high 35-40 yard shots and not too many idiots. Why neither of these units hold birds any longer is beyond me.

Todd Farm has tons of untapped potential for ducks and it seems changes are in the works to exploit it.

I have to dasagree with most of our birds coming in the late split. I don't have access to much private land but pull decent numbers of mallards and other ducks off public land in Allegan County, mostly during deer season give or take. Need to be willing to look where others aren't.....


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Dahmer said:


> Problem solved. Got ahold of Obama and he put this on his agenda of things to be resolved.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


If only we knew some from his home state with connections.


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

TSS Caddis said:


> If only we knew some from his home state with connections.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk


You have the all this money and a thread started for you regarding all your bromance's, I think you have the best angle out of anyone. Yep, I took your bait.


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## rholly2 (Feb 21, 2013)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> Bravo has always been a joke. The highbanks used to be actually really good pass shooting, like tree top high 35-40 yard shots and not too many idiots. Why neither of these units hold birds any longer is beyond me.
> 
> Todd Farm has tons of untapped potential for ducks and it seems changes are in the works to exploit it.
> 
> I have to dasagree with most of our birds coming in the late split. I don't have access to much private land but pull decent numbers of mallards and other ducks off public land in Allegan County, mostly during deer season give or take. Need to be willing to look where others aren't.....



Good to hear someone is finding them in good numbers that early. The only good numbers I'm seeing in november are locals that got library cards as soon as the season opened and are living off popcorn.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> ...I have to dasagree with most of our birds coming in the late split. I don't have access to much private land but pull decent numbers of mallards and other ducks off public land in Allegan County, mostly during deer season give or take. Need to be willing to look where others aren't.....


Well that makes two of you west/sw siders on just this thread that disagree.



Far Beyond Driven said:


> Need to be willing to look where others aren't.....


Best statement I've read in two days. And futher, if some of you are willing to drive to IN, OH or ILL, why don't you drive a few hours to Saginaw Bay, LSC, or....dare I say...SHIAWASSEE? I promise we don't bite there. And that would keep your dollars right here in Michigan (seems like I heard that somewhere)


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

just ducky said:


> Well that makes two of you west/sw siders on just this thread that disagree.
> 
> 
> 
> Best statement I've read in two days. And futher, if some of you are willing to drive to IN, OH or ILL, why don't you drive a few hours to Saginaw Bay, LSC, or....dare I say...SHIAWASSEE? I promise we don't bite there. And that would keep your dollars right here in Michigan (seems like I heard that somewhere)



People don't look in December because there's no reason to, of course most would think the split is best, why look if you can't have?

Don't know too many people willing to drive that distance and risk money and gas on a public draw...


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

SBE II said:


> ...Don't know too many people willing to drive that distance and risk money and gas on a public draw...


And many regular hunters at Shi, FP, Harsens, etc. are glad you think that way  You wanna see birds? You'll see them at these areas.

But then how about Saginaw Bay? Miles and miles of public shoreline, easily accessible to most anyone, without draws? And during weekdays, very roomy. Seems as if that would be more of a draw if I were in west/sw Mich?


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

SBE II said:


> People don't look in December because there's no reason to, of course most would think the split is best, why look if you can't have?
> 
> Don't know too many people willing to drive that distance and risk money and gas on a public draw...


No kidding.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

just ducky said:


> And many regular hunters at Shi, FP, Harsens, etc. are glad you think that way  You wanna see birds? You'll see them at these areas.
> 
> But then how about Saginaw Bay? Miles and miles of public shoreline, easily accessible to most anyone, without draws? And during weekdays, very roomy. Seems as if that would be more of a draw if I were in west/sw Mich?


You must have mistaken me for a diver hunter or a bird watcher? :help:

I know you're trying to seek rational in your resolutions but you're pretty far off on this one..


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

just ducky said:


> And many regular hunters at Shi, FP, Harsens, etc. are glad you think that way  You wanna see birds? You'll see them at these areas.
> 
> But then how about Saginaw Bay? Miles and miles of public shoreline, easily accessible to most anyone, without draws? And during weekdays, very roomy. Seems as if that would be more of a draw if I were in west/sw Mich?


Thanks, but no thanks. That's about a 4 hour drive for me. I can be on some of the best hunting around in less than half that time. If I'm driving 4 hours, it sure as heck isn't going to be East.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

field-n-feathers said:


> Thanks, but no thanks. That's about a 4 hour drive for me. I can be on some of the best hunting around in less than half that time. If I'm driving 4 hours, it sure as heck isn't going to be East.


Yeah that....


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

field-n-feathers said:


> ...I can be on some of the best hunting around in less than half that time...


um....if that's true, then why are we having this discussion again?


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## BangBangBang (Mar 30, 2011)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> Need to be willing to look where others aren't.....


whaaa??? you mean the malls in chicago don't have huntable ducks???


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

just ducky said:


> um....if that's true, then why are we having this discussion again?


Do you really need to ask that question?


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

BangBangBang said:


> whaaa??? you mean the malls in chicago don't have huntable ducks???


I'd put the "mall guy" from Chicago up against you any day, and twice on Sunday.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

field-n-feathers said:


> So what you're saying is other states that have early or mid season splits have it wrong and their participation rates are affected. Got it.


This would be a valid statement. Regarding my statistical comment it was relative to indicating who the majority is, at this point we can claim just about anyone because they "majority" has never been asked, right?

Shi if you use to be like me did you become complacent? So with people leaving the state because of the poor economy and people fighting a license increase, what's to lose?


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

field-n-feathers said:


> So what you're saying is other states that have early or mid season splits have it wrong and their participation rates are affected. Got it.


other states don't have the same migration, the same bays or the even the hunting we have on the great lakes. nice try but again, your drawing apples to oranges with your comparisons.

do you honestly want to take saginaw bays hunting and use ohio's dates? your kidding right?

next.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

just ducky said:


> Comparing the southern third of Michigan to Ill, Oh, Ind or most any state is ridiculous. We all agree how different the weather can be from the far west or southwest area, to the tip of the thumb, down to Monroe, yet we're all in one zone, with the same dates. This is why we have problems. Carve a 4th zone out for you in west/sw Michigan and it would certainly help. And don't anyone now say I've never pushed for a 4th zone, because several of you know how hard I did push it. But we all know how that went over.


So now both you and Shi have indicated to us that you once used to believe in the same things as us...I'm really starting to get confused.


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> see SBE, i used to be like you. i wanted later and later dates. i used to bitch non-stop about it. then when i got involved and tried to change it, guess what? i found out why it is the way it is. Its all about the $$$. you want to hurt the DNR budget, open late....split/close season during prime migration on your 2 big powerhouse areas of the state and then watch what happens. you lose participation and money and the DNR goes underfunded. that is the big picture but me telling this won't matter. you guys are so hell bent to change seasons to december at any consequence, your not looking at the big picture and the hurdles involved. you can poll your daylights out for all i care....your gonna come to the same conclusion and that is hard data that participation rate dictate where and when we open/close season.


Where is the Poll, or Data you used to come to your conclusion ? Was it an internet poll ? We are really thinking more on (at least me) what the majority of hunters want. You are indicating that the data you obtained, when you were like us, is not a specific poll to the hunters, but rather to money ? Two totally different data pools. Are you understanding what this thread is about ?


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

I honestly wish the DNR would cough up the cash to actually survey EVERY person who hunts waterfowl, from the so-called "tennis shoe" people who hunt only a day or two in October, to the die-hard layout guys cracking ice. That would be a true majority, and would stop a lot of this constant arguing. Or even better...include two questions...one, what is the zip code of your residence, and two, which counties do you regularly hunt watefowl. That would be really interesting to know.


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

just ducky said:


> Comparing the southern third of Michigan to Ill, Oh, Ind or most any state is ridiculous. We all agree how different the weather can be from the far west or southwest area, to the tip of the thumb, down to Monroe, yet we're all in one zone, with the same dates. This is why we have problems. Carve a 4th zone out for you in west/sw Michigan and it would certainly help. And don't anyone now say I've never pushed for a 4th zone, because several of you know how hard I did push it. But we all know how that went over.


And someone took that and drew all kinds of weird lines and called it all kinds of funny things... kind of hard to take you seriously on that.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

Bellyup said:


> And someone took that and drew all kinds of weird lines and called it all kinds of funny things... kind of hard to take you seriously on that.


Damnit Belly don't go backwards we just got both of them to admit they were once for a Zone 4 and dates in December..Kinda like they were agreeing with us..


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

SBE II said:


> So now both you and Shi have indicated to us that you once used to believe in the same things as us...I'm really starting to get confused.


Huh? You really need to take one of those speed-reading classes, cause you're missing a WHOLE lot of things we post. We have both said we at one time lobbied for "front-end splits", and for a 4th zone. Both of us even had drawings of the 4 zones that we floated around a couple years ago to get input. However unlike each of you, we saw the handwriting on the wall, when, as Shi Kid just said, the DNR said "ain't gonna happen". What more can I say?


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

SBE II said:


> So now both you and Shi have indicated to us that you once used to believe in the same things as us...I'm really starting to get confused.


about what part, i was pretty clear in every post i've made. i've told you 10x now that we have similar complaints..and i'm only trying to help you understand how it works but you keep choosing to make me the evil guy who wants the southwest to suffer....and your completely wrong.

if you paid attention or did some searching you will find posts where i pushed hard for front loaded splits so that our actual start dates would be 3rd weekend of october. late split hunters didn't like that. 1st hurdle and actually the biggest sinker of the idea. secondly, DNR data shows most participation happens in the weeks of the closing (second hurdle). 

i've even offered up redrawn zone lines that moved us and hte bay into z2, and specifically trying to keep the 1st weekend in october opener if that was to occur. met much resistance from bay hunters due to overcrowding (whole bay opening on same weekend) z3 could then open 3rd weekend and run 2 weeks into december. this was an attempt to get sw later dates....but u know me so well that I think sw michigan is a cancer...right? I must not know what its like to hunt down there or see all the ducks that come to kzoo late in the year....blah blah blah. i'm fell off the duck hunting truck yesterday and have no clue of michigans migration patterns.

so please, tell me more about your december hunting you desire.


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

just ducky said:


> I honestly wish the DNR would cough up the cash to actually survey EVERY person who hunts waterfowl, from the so-called "tennis shoe" people who hunt only a day or two in October, to the die-hard layout guys cracking ice. That would be a true majority, and would stop a lot of this constant arguing. Or even better...include two questions...one, what is the zip code of your residence, and two, which counties do you regularly hunt watefowl. That would be really interesting to know.


THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR, and you and the KID have been arguing against us !! I am more than willing to accept a majoirty vote !!!! I said that a while back. What we don't have is the data. Nobody does. 

Good grief.........


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Bellyup said:


> And someone took that and drew all kinds of weird lines and called it all kinds of funny things... kind of hard to take you seriously on that.


The infamous "yellow line"....still got it someplace :lol: Yep, that was long after the DNR and CWAC basically killed any hope for a 4th zone. At that point, humor was all we had :lol: But I hope you remember all of the discussions before that, AND the various maps that were floated around trying to get support for a 4th zone?


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Bellyup said:


> THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR, and you and the KID have been arguing against us !! I am more than willing to accept a majoirty vote !!!! I said that a while back. What we don't have is the data. Nobody does.
> 
> Good grief.........


Again, read the words...we aren't arguing against you. We're pointing out reality...the DNR has said over and over now they won't do a full survey of every hunter. How much plainer can it be? :banghead3


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> do you honestly want to take saginaw bays hunting and use ohio's dates? your kidding right?
> 
> next.


I know things are sometimes hard for you to follow from your soapbox.....

No, I'm not saying that. It's in reference to a front loaded split. But, it is funny to see that if you cross the border into Ohio you can duck hunt for another month. There must be a magical ray of sunshine warming the temps up over there.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> about what part, i was pretty clear in every post i've made. i've told you 10x now that we have similar complaints..and i'm only trying to help you understand how it works but you keep choosing to make me the evil guy who wants the southwest to suffer....and your completely wrong.
> 
> if you paid attention or did some searching you will find posts where i pushed hard for front loaded splits so that our actual start dates would be 3rd weekend of october. late split hunters didn't like that. 1st hurdle and actually the biggest sinker of the idea. secondly, DNR data shows most participation happens in the weeks of the closing (second hurdle).
> 
> ...


I'm only on the verge of 800 posts, I don't really have the time to search the 7,500 of yours. 

I will agree about the split and I have. I think some are in fear sacrificing 2-4 day late days for a couple of weeks in December, why? Because longevitiy in December has never occured, at least to my memory and goes back to why look for what you cant have..


----------



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

field-n-feathers said:


> I know things are sometimes hard for you to follow from your soapbox.....
> 
> No, I'm not saying that. It's in reference to a front loaded split. But, it is funny to see that if you cross the border into Ohio you can duck hunt for another month. There must be a magical ray of sunshine warming the temps up over there.


you cant pull one sentence from my post and disregard the rest of it to make a point FNF. 

i gave the reasons for the early split and why it wont work. i answered that fully in my post. dont pick one sentence and leave out the rest to make your point, not gonna work that way.

you know damn well i would support a front split. using ohio as an example of why it should work is apples to oranges. just by geography and weather alone.


----------



## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

SBE II said:


> I'm only on the verge of 800 posts, I don't really have the time to search the 7,500 of yours....


Thanks for reminding me. GOD has my post count gone up today! :evilsmile I'm gonna win that prize that Smoke and I talked about


----------



## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

just ducky said:


> Thanks for reminding me. GOD has my post count gone up today! :evilsmile I'm gonna win that prize that Smoke and I talked about


That prize being a roll of duct tape? :lol:


----------



## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

just ducky said:


> Huh? You really need to take one of those speed-reading classes, cause you're missing a WHOLE lot of things we post. We have both said we at one time lobbied for "front-end splits", and for a 4th zone. Both of us even had drawings of the 4 zones that we floated around a couple years ago to get input. However unlike each of you, we saw the handwriting on the wall, when, as Shi Kid just said, the DNR said "ain't gonna happen". What more can I say?


JD, I think most of us that seriously want later hunting into December are willingto grasp onto anything that will help accomplish that goal. If it means a 4th zone, or of it means a front loaded split, a rear loaded split, a mid season split, moveing the bay into z2, or whatever. So that is why you see us push for things you might agree with, it helps with our casues. And personally, i think you & the Kid enjoy this debate **** way to much. It is taxing. The Kid is more 'matter of fact and you are stupid' type than you are, but you are getting close. If we ever get the full data instead if snipets from your links, the kids links, or anyone elses links maybe, just maybe something can be done.


----------



## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> you cant pull one sentence from my post and disregard the rest of it to make a point FNF.
> 
> i gave the reasons for the early split and why it wont work. i answered that fully in my post. dont pick one sentence and leave out the rest to make your point, not gonna work that way.
> 
> you know damn well i would support a front split. using ohio as an example of why it should work is apples to oranges. just by geography and weather alone.


LOL! You are really something to behold.


----------



## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

Bellyup said:


> JD, I think most of us that seriously want later hunting into December are willingto grasp onto anything that will help accomplish that goal. If it means a 4th zone, or of it means a front loaded split, a rear loaded split, a mid season split, moveing the bay into z2, or whatever. So that is why you see us push for things you might agree with, it helps with our casues. And personally, i think you & the Kid enjoy this debate **** way to much. It is taxing. The Kid is more 'matter of fact and you are stupid' type than you are, but you are getting close. If we ever get the full data instead if snipets from your links, the kids links, or anyone elses links maybe, just maybe something can be done.


----------



## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Bellyup said:


> JD, I think most of us that seriously want later hunting into December are willingto grasp onto anything that will help accomplish that goal. If it means a 4th zone, or of it means a front loaded split, a rear loaded split, a mid season split, moveing the bay into z2, or whatever. So that is why you see us push for things you might agree with, it helps with our casues. And personally, i think you & the Kid enjoy this debate **** way to much. It is taxing. The Kid is more 'matter of fact and you are stupid' type than you are, but you are getting close. If we ever get the full data instead if snipets from your links, the kids links, or anyone elses links maybe, just maybe something can be done.


I think I saw a compliment in there! I think I did...I really did :yikes:


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

field-n-feathers said:


> LOL! You are really something to behold.


Which is why his picture on his posts has an almost halo effect :lol::lol::lol: But he's not quite the pope...not yet.


----------



## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

just ducky said:


> Which is why his picture on his posts has an almost halo effect :lol::lol::lol: But he's not quite the pope...not yet.


LOL! He asked a question and I answered it. But now I'm only pulling a sentence out to respond to. Yes, I did......It was the question sentence.


----------



## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

SBE II said:


> That prize being a roll of duct tape? :lol:


You watched Red Green too? Hey, duct tape has a lot of good uses.


----------



## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

oh and by the way...DING..DING...DING...


----------



## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

just ducky said:


> I think I saw a compliment in there! I think I did...I really did :yikes:


Anyone who has WAYYYYYY over 10K posts and counting strong, deserves a compliment now and again. Let me get this right, I don't dislike you, in fact I think outside this political arena filled with bull c h i t, you are an okay guy. You want to please everyone, and think it can be done. That is an admriable trait. I alo think you are a little brainwashed with the DNR stuff. But that is not meant as a take away. It is simply saying, you believe they are right and you are standing up for what you believe in, am I right ?


----------



## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

just ducky said:


> You watched Red Green too? Hey, duct tape has a lot of good uses.


I was only thinking of a 2-3" roll, that would be enough for your trap right? :lol::lol::lol:

Red Green is the man...


----------



## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

just ducky said:


> oh and by the way...DING..DING...DING...


Is that what you hear for every post over 10K? :lol::lol: Damn, I'm jealous.


----------



## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

field-n-feathers said:


> Is that what you hear for every post over 10K? :lol::lol: Damn, I'm jealous.


He hears Bang Bang Bang...:lol:


----------



## BangBangBang (Mar 30, 2011)

SBE II said:


> Why thank you sir...I'd be willing to accept that challenge as well.


Me too


----------



## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

SBE II said:


> He hears Bang Bang Bang...:lol:


:lol::lol::lol:I bet he does.


----------



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

hooker (a sw native) laid that line down personally


----------



## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

Quit giving away our cornfield secrets. :lol::lol:


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## BangBangBang (Mar 30, 2011)

field-n-feathers said:


> That's a great question.....
> 
> 
> Taken from the 2010 Waterfowl Harvest Survey....
> ...


You've been to Harsens, right? You do know it's in the middle of a much larger used area called lake st. clair, right??
To imply the harsens unit ITSELF and the people using only it are driving decisions is foolish.


----------



## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Bellyup said:


> Anyone who has WAYYYYYY over 10K posts and counting strong, deserves a compliment now and again. Let me get this right, I don't dislike you, in fact I think outside this political arena filled with bull c h i t, you are an okay guy. You want to please everyone, and think it can be done. That is an admriable trait. I alo think you are a little brainwashed with the DNR stuff. But that is not meant as a take away. It is simply saying, you believe they are right and you are standing up for what you believe in, am I right ?


I don't necessarily believe the DNR is "right". I just feel that in some instances they can do no right. This is one of those issues. I would say that very few, if any, waterfowlers are truly happy with the seasons right now. I have heard a couple say that, but few. I believe nearly every waterfowl hunter gives up some in this fight, and most just accept what they have and make the best of it. Yes, even those of us who hunt the managed areas a lot. Now granted, some of you in the west/sw potentially give up more. But you have to admit, both Shi Kid and I have said many times on this site that you all have the deck stacked against you. But you can't change your physical location, or magically make the migrations change. So if you can't find birds near you, you either have to travel more, find a way to convince the powers that be to change the season dates, or live with the hand you're dealt.


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## BangBangBang (Mar 30, 2011)

SBE II said:


> This is going in the save file titled, "putting words in my mouth." You see the comment but you fail to read it, Who is going to drive 3+ hours for a draw? Or to watch a display of sky busting, or to have possible working ducks blown out by the group of retards 150 yards away...
> 
> You wanted an explanation I gave you one...



In all seriousness now, that's one of the dumbest things you guys have said. Go search or wait for this fall to see all the guys talking about all the driving they do do.(also, recall the campaign the DNR did to get people to try them all out.)
I specifically remember this past fall a guy on Lake st. Clair, (which by the way, contains a small unit called Harsens) who routinely drives hours to get to shiawasse.


----------



## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

BangBangBang said:


> You've been to Harsens, right? You do know it's in the middle of a much larger used area called lake st. clair, right??
> To imply the harsens unit ITSELF and the people using only it are driving decisions is foolish.


Thanks Mr. Obvious....You understand their peak numbers are in November, right? Stick with the shopping references please. They are more your speed.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

I often drive 40 minutes one way to Shi, 90 minutes to up and down the west side of the bay (sometimes the Nayanquing managed area), 70 minutes to the east side of the bay (Sebewaing area or middle grounds, or sometimes Fish Point Managed area). These are my three main areas...both sides of the bay, or Shiawassee. I also have a few local marshes, but after the first week or two, the lull sets in and they are, like for many of us, dead. But I hate to think of the miles I drive each fall


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

BangBangBang said:


> In all seriousness now, that's one of the dumbest things you guys have said. Go search or wait for this fall to see all the guys talking about all the driving they do do.(also, recall the campaign the DNR did to get people to try them all out.)
> I specifically remember this past fall a guy on Lake st. Clair, (which by the way, contains a small unit called Harsens) who routinely drives hours to get to shiawasse.


I can name no less than 20 shiawassee regulars....yes regulars who live 15 minutes from harsens...

Sfcha president is from mt. Clemens....way closer to harsens and easily 1.5hrs to shiawassee. 

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## BangBangBang (Mar 30, 2011)

SBE II said:


> By the way, I never have hunted any GMA's in MI, never will. If I hunt public land its in a mecca like SD no stakes or draws...


The general population of MI duck hunters hunt public lands and here we have a guy who claims he never hunts GMU's and is too good for MI's public land , and we all need to listen to him and his girlfriend tell the public when hunting seasons can be (which is whatever works best for this guy on his private land.)

Have I missed anything?? (that's rhetorical girls)


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## BangBangBang (Mar 30, 2011)

just ducky said:


> Again, read the words...we aren't arguing against you. We're pointing out reality...the DNR has said over and over now they won't do a full survey of every hunter. How much plainer can it be? :banghead3


They never understand this fact....it's always "you and your mob argue against us".:banghead3:banghead3:banghead3


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## BangBangBang (Mar 30, 2011)

field-n-feathers said:


> I know things are sometimes hard for you to follow from your soapbox.....
> 
> No, I'm not saying that. It's in reference to a front loaded split. But, it is funny to see that if you cross the border into Ohio you can duck hunt for another month. There must be a magical ray of sunshine warming the temps up over there.


Sag Bay moved down next to Ohio now??? That would have been cool to see.


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## BangBangBang (Mar 30, 2011)

field-n-feathers said:


> Thanks Mr. Obvious....You understand their peak numbers are in November, right? Stick with the shopping references please. They are more your speed.


Awww now now. Who's peak numbers? The gmu or the greater area? 

More importantly, my point about tiny harsens inside of a bigger are is maybe only 20% use harsens, but you can guarantee those same guys know and also hunt the rest of the area so really, the opinion you get out of the 20% at Harsens, is a very good barometer for the whole huge area. Is that too fast for ya?


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## BangBangBang (Mar 30, 2011)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> I can name no less than 20 shiawassee regulars....yes regulars who live 15 minutes from harsens...
> 
> Sfcha president is from mt. Clemens....way closer to harsens and easily 1.5hrs to shiawassee.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Yea but that can't be, they said no one will drive to hunt???:lol:


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Sure, I can see the comparison. Saginaw Bay is EXACTLY like Ohio (aka the armpit of the earth), so why shouldn't the bay have the same seasons?

Oh but wait...geography lesson...the bay is only 140 miles NORTH of the Ohio line. Maybe they should have earlier dates? Hmmm


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

I have another 20 minutes...I can wait.... :lol: :bouncy: :16suspect :evilsmile


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

just ducky said:


> Sure, I can see the comparison. Saginaw Bay is EXACTLY like Ohio (aka the armpit of the earth), so why shouldn't the bay have the same seasons?
> 
> Oh but wait...geography lesson...the bay is only 140 miles NORTH of the Ohio line. Maybe they should have earlier dates? Hmmm


Who said they should have the same season?


----------



## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)




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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

field-n-feathers said:


> ...it is funny to see that if you cross the border into Ohio you can duck hunt for another month. There must be a magical ray of sunshine warming the temps up over there.


They are just a tad south of the bay...

Your turn :evilsmile


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## BangBangBang (Mar 30, 2011)

just ducky said:


> They are just a tad south of the bay...
> 
> Your turn :evilsmile


LOL, that's probly too fast for him...FNF, you better get back inside the mall.:evil::evilsmile


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

BangBangBang said:


> LOL, that's proby too fast for him...FNF, you better get back inside the mall.:evil::evilsmile


I'll slow it down for YOU. 

I didn't introduce the Bay into this.



Shiawassee_Kid said:


> other states don't have the same migration, the same bays or the even the hunting we have on the great lakes. nice try but again, your drawing apples to oranges with your comparisons.
> 
> *do you honestly want to take saginaw bays hunting and use ohio's dates? your kidding right?*
> 
> next.


I replied.



field-n-feathers said:


> I know things are sometimes hard for you to follow from your soapbox.....
> 
> *No, I'm not saying that. It's in reference to a front loaded split. But, it is funny to see that if you cross the border into Ohio you can duck hunt for another month. There must be a magical ray of sunshine warming the temps up over there.*


I think the mall is a bit too advanced for you. Better stick to Walmart.


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

just ducky said:


> They are just a tad south of the bay...
> 
> Your turn :evilsmile


I can only hope that you are just tired. See my above post.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

field-n-feathers said:


> I'll slow it down for YOU.
> 
> I didn't introduce the Bay into this.
> 
> ...


Now thats good stuff right there....

I mean because a 3 hour difference in Michigan can't be much of a difference in weather can it? :gaga:


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## blklab (Jan 5, 2011)

75 day four bird limit sure will save a ton of buffies and squaw the sea duck hunters will love that


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

FNF check out Maryland..>How do they do it?

Regular Duck Season Oct. 13 - Oct. 20 
Nov. 10 - Nov. 23 
Dec. 11 - Jan. 26


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## LoBrass (Oct 16, 2007)

They "do it" because they have their entire state as a single zone. Therefore, they may have 2 splits.

The Federal Frameworks spell out all the details by flyway and by state depending on a number of variables.

Pretty confusing stuff.

In addition, they can hunt seaducks from Oct. 1-Jan. 31. Here again, the reason we should hound the Feds about other options for our state which is the most diverse of waterfowling states in the union. We have seaducks, right?


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## Dahmer (Jan 22, 2007)

Holly crap what a pissing match. I tend to agree with the SW guys there needs to be a change in season dates. This is coming from a Saginaw Bay Hunter. GMA's are a usefull tool and alot of people use them, but I dont think they should be the deciding factor on how seasons are set in zone 3. This is the impression I get from the CWAC. We need to be gathering data outside of these GMA's also. I think the DNRs data is skewed when it comes to participation and duck harvest in November at the GMA's. Specially Fish Point. These birds have been pounded on for weeks making them hard to hunt in the GMA. You venture out a few miles and its a whole different story. When Fish Point is sucking *$$ we are pounding them on the open water or in the fields. I always like the agruement about these areas freezing up in late Nov. And the loss of days if we hunt into Dec. There are alot of other areas to hunt when these areas freeze up. These organizations that support the GMAs represent a small fraction of the states waterfowlers. What I would like to see is a mandatory survey that is done when your waterfowl license is purchased. You get to pick one zone, the zone you hunt the most and you are given several season dates for that zone to pick from. To me this is the only true way to get what the people want. If the majority comes back that people hunting in that zone want a early opener I think the SW guys would buy into the dates. Before all you GMA guys start jumping on me I buy my annual use permit every year and havent hunted at any of the GMA's in 5 years.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## duckbuster2 (Aug 14, 2008)

NO HUNTING in Dec. ever!!,hunt in Dec. go to another state.:evilr have a 75 day season.


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## Dahmer (Jan 22, 2007)

duckbuster2 said:


> NO HUNTING in Dec. ever!!,hunt in Dec. go to another state.:evilr have a 75 day season.


Whys it to cold for you!

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## duckbuster2 (Aug 14, 2008)

No. Is spell check too hard for you? I've hunted October and November for 45 years and have shot plenty of ducks. Nothing I've seen in that time leads me to believe I'd shoot any more ducks in December. December is for Christmas, not duck hunting.:lol:


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

The only reason that I (if it were me working on this) would communicate with the key DNR staff is so that you don't waste your time doing things they've already done. They deal with them on a regular basis, so I would assume they could give some insight on "we asked them this already" or "we've proposed this already". They may also say "John Doe is the guy who could be a sympathetic ear for you on this". It would just seem to me that you might save yourself some grief that way. But that's JMO. 

For what it's worth, I wish whoever takes this on all the luck in the world. I normally love a good challenge, which is really why I took on the SWD ban a few years ago. I've been talked into doing crazier things. But in this particular case, I currently just don't have the time.


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## LoBrass (Oct 16, 2007)

SBE II said:


> http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/AboutUS/mbstratplan/MBStratPlanTOC.html
> 
> http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/AboutUS/mbstratplan/ImplementationStrategies.pdf


There they are. Thanks.

And regarding contacting our DNR first, they will likely tell you "have at it!!" They know what it takes to get something done and will likely be behind any liberalization of regulations. They also will be the first to recognize that PUBLIC INPUT from user groups and constituents will make the Feds listen.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

This is the clout statement-But the state isn't providing the information they should i.e. the general publics opinion

C-4: Continue to implement and improve an 
objective, streamlined process for establishing
annual hunting regulations and strengthen the 
working relationships with flyway councils and 
individual states

State Limits CWAC awareness on this to

C-6: Continue to provide an effective forum for 
public review and comment during the development
of annual hunting regulations.

E-7: Maintain and expand existing conservation 
partnerships with hunters and the hunting industry
to increase awareness of hunting opportunities and 
the importance of bird conservation.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

SBE II said:


> This is the clout statement-But the state isn't providing the information they should i.e. the general publics opinion
> 
> C-4: Continue to implement and improve an
> objective, streamlined process for establishing
> ...


One word of advice...be careful not to slam the DNR's process at all. Point out to the feds (constructively) where you think the DNR could do things differently or better. Because if you're successful at getting someone at the federal level to listen, at some point you're going to need the DNR as a willing partner in the discussions. You don't have to kiss the DNR's ***, but don't piss on them either  My 2 cents.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

just ducky said:


> One word of advice...be careful not to slam the DNR's process at all. Point out to the feds (constructively) where you think the DNR could do things differently or better. Because if you're successful at getting someone at the federal level to listen, at some point you're going to need the DNR as a willing partner in the discussions. You don't have to kiss the DNR's ***, but don't piss on them either  My 2 cents.


I'll go back to my definition of insanity and this is problem why I'm different then you folks. I think they hear us but they don't listen and push it back on the lack of monies. Sorry but I would probably go around them because at the end of the day its not their decision, right?:help:


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## LoBrass (Oct 16, 2007)

I'd LOVE to continue this discussion (which has taken a wonderful and productive turn) but I got a call yesterday and the STUD woodie in my avatar is done and, frankly, I want to go and get him:evil:!!

Then, I have tickets for the AMERICAN BAD ASS-KID ROCK tonight at Huntington Center in Toledo, Ohio. My beautiful and shapely wife is going to dress in her skimpiest outfit with tight pants and high heels for the concert phsyc-up party and show. Honestly, I'm kinda stoked about the days events.

Sooooooo.......I'll check in tomorrow (after the boys hockey try-outs):coolgleam.


----------



## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

LoBrass said:


> I'd LOVE to continue this discussion (which has taken a wonderful and productive turn) but I got a call yesterday and the STUD woodie in my avatar is done and, frankly, I want to go and get him:evil:!!
> 
> Then, I have tickets for the AMERICAN BAD ASS-KID ROCK tonight at Huntington Center in Toledo, Ohio. My beautiful and shapely wife is going to dress in her skimpiest outfit with tight pants and high heels for the concert phsyc-up party and show. Honestly, I'm kinda stoked about the days events.
> 
> Sooooooo.......I'll check in tomorrow (after the boys hockey try-outs):coolgleam.


AHAHAHA the dog has his nose to the ground...Have fun!


----------



## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

SBE II said:


> You heading this? Let's go...





SBE II said:


> Are you at least willing to collaborate to lobby for a 75 day season?
> 
> Ill sign a petition or do what I'm able...


So with all your passion on this topic, as soon as there is work to be done your trying to delegate to JD? It's all good I guess because you are willing to contribute by signing a petition.:lol:

Keep up the good work.

I wouldn't mind a Zone 4, I would like to hunt later. I realize there is a majority that does not feel the same and am fine with being in the minority and not getting everything I want.

I look forward to reading the additional 10 pages when I log back on Monday.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

SBE II said:


> I'll go back to my definition of insanity and this is problem why I'm different then you folks. I think they hear us but they don't listen and push it back on the lack of monies. Sorry but I would probably go around them because at the end of the day its not their decision, right?:help:


Yeah but have you talked to them directly? I don't think you have. You've just listened to a lot of jibberish from people like me on websites like this, many of whom lump all DNR staff into one category...useless. Believe it or not, there are a lot of good, hard-working DNR staffers, who really do want to help us. I know of a few in particular who would love nothing better than to see a proposal like this go through. They may not want to, or may not BE ABLE TO openly support or push this proposal because of their internal politics, but they would help behind the scenes. 

I'm not trying to sway you one way or another on how to approach this. I just know in my mind how I would do it, and that's not saying it's the only way


----------



## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

LoBrass said:


> I'd LOVE to continue this discussion (which has taken a wonderful and productive turn) but I got a call yesterday and the STUD woodie in my avatar is done and, frankly, I want to go and get him:evil:!!
> 
> Then, I have tickets for the AMERICAN BAD ASS-KID ROCK tonight at Huntington Center in Toledo, Ohio. My beautiful and shapely wife is going to dress in her skimpiest outfit with tight pants and high heels for the concert phsyc-up party and show. Honestly, I'm kinda stoked about the days events.
> 
> Sooooooo.......I'll check in tomorrow (after the boys hockey try-outs):coolgleam.


Can't say I'm a fan of Kid Rock  but I certainly am a fan of wives who dress in skimpy outfits and get all frothed up at events like this  My own lovely bride still does on occasion. So have fun brutha!


----------



## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

TSS Caddis said:


> So with all your passion on this topic, as soon as there is work to be done your trying to delegate to JD? It's all good I guess because you are willing to contribute by signing a petition.:lol:
> 
> Keep up the good work.
> 
> ...


just roll with it Gene. They're finally on a constructive roll, and if something productive does happen to come out of this, you could get even more use  :yikes: out of your big water rigs


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

I think it is collassal waste of time to get something changed at the Fed level. That is going to take at least ten years. Still pursue it, but in the meantime we need a more timely change. 

You see, if we manage to get this changed at the State level, it provides more data that can be surveyed and presented to the Feds to plead for a longer season. I also don't think 50K people of the state of MI would have an impact on the Feds decision to allow a 75 day season, they are looking at millions of people in the flyway and their best interests. 50K in a pool of a million is pretty insignificant. We can fix this issue within the state level. But I also agree that if something could be done at the Fed level, someone with the ineer knowledge working of the politics should do it. I would get fed up way to fast on the beurocrats and speak my mind. So I am certainly not that person. I will contribute, but not head anything. 

As for the survey that the Kid posted, that is 5k of 50K... what percentage of waterfowlers is that that were given a survey ? Hmmm. And were any of them in SW MI ? I think if you truly gave people a choice, they would chose to hunt waterfowl when the best hunting occured, not when the migration occurs.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

TSS Caddis said:


> So with all your passion on this topic, as soon as there is work to be done your trying to delegate to JD? It's all good I guess because you are willing to contribute by signing a petition.:lol:
> 
> Keep up the good work.
> 
> ...



You obviously ignored the rest of the post, it's apparent that you just like to get your digs, and thats okay. I'm sure most get theirs when you show up to banquets with that sweater tied around your neck looking like a Euro...

But I do appreciate your last statement, you realize the majority doesn't agree, how many posts did it take for you to understand that? I just received very good information privately and I will follow that guidance rather than listen to the shi posse. JD there's hope for you...Hope this works out so we can laugh...


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

TSS Caddis said:


> So with all your passion on this topic, as soon as there is work to be done your trying to delegate to JD? It's all good I guess because you are willing to contribute by signing a petition.:lol:
> 
> Keep up the good work.
> 
> ...


Can you give up some of your easily earned cash and donate to our casue ? If not, then can I have some cash so I can travel all over the state ? If not, just share some of that puff puff pass, casue I sure ain't picking up what you are laying down. 

Now since I rebutted your D/Bag comments you might have ten pages to read on Monday.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

SBE II said:


> ...JD there's hope for you...Hope this works out so we can laugh...


LoBrass said it best...nothing worth fighting for is easy. Don't get the false impression that the feds will bow down and just do this. It will take a lot of work. I disagree with Bellyup thinking it will take 10 years. But it very well could take a couple. So does that mean you don't try? Hell no...ya gotta start someplace. 

LoBrass also made another great point...other flyways are getting 75 days, so why not us? Show us the data that says we're so different. And if you can get the majority of this state's waterfowlers on-board with the idea (and this is one fight that I really do think the majority will easily support), then it will be that much harder for the feds to ignore you.

I still say getting some support from the DNR asap would help your cause, but that's just me.


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

just ducky said:


> ...other flyways are getting 75 days, so why not us?


Because the duck harvest within the Mississippi Flyway is approximately the same as the Atlantic, Central, and Pacific....combined.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

The fastest way to screw up populations is with longer seasons as opposed to higher bag limits.

You could make the limit 10 mallards a day with little effect. The average hunter struggles to kill 4 as it is - what's the average daily take?? Hell, you could make the limit 100 and it's not going to do anything for the guy that doesn't scratch a limit when the bogey is 4.

Buuuuut...

Start adding 10-15 days to the season and the average guy that manages 1-3 birds a trip all of the sudden adds 10-15 more birds per season X 50,000 waterfowlers = a metricshitton more dead ducks. 


I guess I'd just as soon leave the decisions regarding season dates and lengths to the biologists and the rest of you can keep your day jobs.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

KLR said:


> The fastest way to screw up populations is with longer seasons as opposed to higher bag limits.
> 
> You could make the limit 10 mallards a day with little effect. The average hunter struggles to kill 4 as it is - what's the average daily take?? Hell, you could make the limit 100 and it's not going to do anything for the guy that doesn't scratch a limit when the bogey is 4.
> 
> ...


As bag limits increase why is the snow goose and Canada population increased?


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

Because your reading comprehension sucks.


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## TNL (Jan 6, 2005)

KLR said:


> I guess I'd just as soon leave the decisions regarding season dates and lengths to the biologists and the rest of you can keep your day jobs.


This selfishness of personalizing your own duck season dates to kill more ducks when the duck killin' is easiest is BS. It used to be duck hunters were the duck's best friend raising coin for DU, Delta, etc., buying our duck stamps and generally caring that we left the resource better than when we found it. Success was measured in the hunter that could actually find some ducks during the lull by traveling or changing tactics. Now it's tailgate shots, black hoodies, and making sure we can hunt at the absolute peak of the migration because "I gotta get me mine".

DNR biologists are tops in their respective fields. Listen to them. They are not about the money; that's the NRC, their bosses. Lord help us if we have to go back to 30 day seasons and 3 duck limits. My guess is that the whiners will go back to bowhunting.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

KLR said:


> ...The average hunter struggles to kill 4 as it is....


I guess I'm a bit different (most of you are problems saying "yeah, no kidding you're different JD" :lol: :lol. What I mean is I don't 
"struggle" for my few birds...I actually am pretty happy when I have 2 or 3 greenheads, and often stop at that point. Why? I've said it before...limits mean nothing to me anymore. 90% of the reason I'm out there is to escape from the daily grind of work and life, to share some laughs with friends, and to just have fun. Some of the guys in my Nodak crew get pissed because my drive is just different than it was 20 years ago. However some of them are the same way.

But having said that, I have absolutely no problem with a guy who's out there charging hard for the daily limit each day. To each his own...life is way too short.

Some of you will find this hard to believe, but at a recent Shiawassee Flats meeting, one of the long-time association members, AND very active hunters, floated a few suggestions such as reducing the bag limit at SRSGA to 3 ducks per day, allowing morning only hunting, allowing hunting only 4 days per week, making more area refuge, etc. I was amazed that this particular person was suggesting these things, none of which gained a lot of support (NO GUYS...no one is proposing any of these things). But for him to be suggesting them was a shock to me. It made me realize that many of us are out there mainly for reasons OTHER than killing ducks. But again, nothing against the guy who goes hard for his limit.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

I fully understand self-restraint and shooting less than a limit. However, most guys heading out are going to try and shoot as many as they legally can.

Point remains the same. If you shoot 2-3 every time out (for what ever reason) and make more trips (because of longer seasons) more birds die.
If the limits are doubled and you still shoot 2-3 birds...nothing changes.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

KLR said:


> I fully understand self-restraint and shooting less than a limit. However, most guys heading out are going to try and shoot as many as they legally can.
> 
> Point remains the same. If you shoot 2-3 every time out (for what ever reason) and make more trips (because of longer seasons) more birds die.
> If the limits are doubled and you still shoot 2-3 birds...nothing changes.


Agreed. But there's another thought too...those of us who hunted the 30 day seasons may also say it seemed a lot more urgent back then to hunt most of those 30 days, and now that we have more days, it almost seems a little less urgent...if that makes any sense? I can remember in my early 20's planning most of the month of October to hunt way out ahead of time to take as much advantage of those limited days, and now it's a bit more relaxed...at least for me. 

But then old dudes like Waxico and I...we think differently anyway :evilsmile (that should get a rise out of at least one guy who happens to have a place on Harsens Island :lol


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

just ducky said:


> Agreed. But there's another thought too...those of us who hunted the 30 day seasons may also say it seemed a lot more urgent back then to hunt most of those 30 days, and now that we have more days, it almost seems a little less urgent...if that makes any sense? I can remember in my early 20's planning most of the month of October to hunt way out ahead of time to take as much advantage of those limited days, and now it's a bit more relaxed...at least for me.
> 
> But then old dudes like Waxico and I...we think differently anyway :evilsmile (that should get a rise out of at least one guy who happens to have a place on Harsens Island :lol


Truth to this. We used to hunt every day of the 30 day season, now ill be lucky to get 20 days in field total on a 60 day. 

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Wingmaster22 (Oct 29, 2003)

TNL said:


> This selfishness of personalizing your own duck season dates to kill more ducks when the duck killin' is easiest is BS. It used to be duck hunters were the duck's best friend raising coin for DU, Delta, etc., buying our duck stamps and generally caring that we left the resource better than when we found it. Success was measured in the hunter that could actually find some ducks during the lull by traveling or changing tactics. Now it's tailgate shots, black hoodies, and making sure we can hunt at the absolute peak of the migration because "I gotta get me mine".
> 
> DNR biologists are tops in their respective fields. Listen to them. They are not about the money; that's the NRC, their bosses. Lord help us if we have to go back to 30 day seasons and 3 duck limits. My guess is that the whiners will go back to bowhunting.


Best post in this whole thread...


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

Wingmaster22 said:


> Best post in this whole thread...


Time the Bay folks give it up to us 90 percenters.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

KLR said:


> I fully understand self-restraint and shooting less than a limit. However, most guys heading out are going to try and shoot as many as they legally can.
> 
> Point remains the same. If you shoot 2-3 every time out (for what ever reason) and make more trips (because of longer seasons) more birds die.
> If the limits are doubled and you still shoot 2-3 birds...nothing changes.


I would like to think that because the way the seasons are run in Z3 right now and hunting the southern most part of the state, the amount of migrators that are killed isn't enough to put a dent on anything. The 10-15 days you indicate and why my reading comprehension sucks is because you assume that the 50,000 are going to kill that amount in ducks, when in all reality unless you're on the X that's not going to happen. The mallard harvest in MO compared to MI is double...

Participation is key to the DNR regardless of what some might say because it's the money maker.


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