# Word of Warning!



## 9 (Jan 17, 2000)

As those of you that follow me on this forum you know I take my coyote trapping pretty darn seriously and involve myself in coyote trapping pretty much year-round. So, to those buying lure this year, be aware that depending on the lure manufacturer, you may not have in the new bottle/jar that you purchased for this season as you had used in previous years!

I showed anybody who choose to watch that one testing video of mine where I tested an old bottle of lure with a yellow label and tested a new bottle of supposedly the same lure but with a white label. Video shows proof that with test holes 6'-8" away from each lure the coyotes would ONLY work the older, yellow labeled lure!!

Yesterday I received another lure order, a different lure then described/tested in my previous paragraph but from the same lure manufacturer to supplement my supply and it had a white label!!!! I opened the bottle and compared the smell with a yellow labeled bottle from last year's purchase. Whoa! Something was certainly different between the two. I had tested the previous year's yellow label without video and the coyotes dug hell out of it as they were suppose too. 

Knowing it's too late to test this new, white labeled bottle of lure, it won't get used on my line this year. I called/contacted 7 different trapping supply businesses yesterday afternoon looking for a leftover yellow label bottle of that lure, sort of looking for a vintage wine. LOL By golly I found one supplier out of seven that still had 1-4oz bottle of yellow label on the shelf. That baby will be here Friday!!

As I close this post I can tell you in all honesty, once I use up these "vintage" bottles of yellow label, I'm done with buying anything from that lure manufacturer! If you don't test your lures or at least compare them with previously purchased lures you're leaving yourself vulnerable to unwittingly using a substandard lure.


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## nick 74 (Dec 4, 2008)

That sucks. If it’s who I think it is I just ordered from them. Have you considered calling them and asking what’s up ?


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## 9 (Jan 17, 2000)

nick 74 said:


> That sucks. If it’s who I think it is I just ordered from them. Have you considered calling them and asking what’s up ?


It's not the supplier's fault Nick, they just sell what's shipped to'em. I always have been leery when lure manufacturer's sell their business which really are their recipes. Recipes are a cost to make and in times such as now when the fur market is near the bottom of the barrel and trapping industry $$ is tight, every cent of cost is a red check mark against their profit margin.

A few years ago Stef Forget from Quebec made several great lures and only a handful of US suppliers were carrying his stuff. Word got to him that certain lures of his were being cut so he came personally to the US and visited those suppliers. He pulled all of his lures out of the US immediately after that and if you wanted any of his, you had to order direct. Stef has since sold his business.

This yellow label vs white label stuff started last year when I ordered a very particular lure that very, very few suppliers carry. Well they didn't have the lure so they sent me a 1oz bottle of white label lure that I've used since 2006. I was pissed that they took my $$ without contacting me, they just said we don't have it so ship the guy something off the shelf. Piss poor supplier when they had my phone number and email addy!!!

So I opened the white label bottle and immediately knew it was crap because it smelled like crap not like the 4oz yellow label I had to compare it with!!! So I tested both as I've explained! CRAP in a glass bottle with a WHITE label!!


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## Tail-Chaser (Feb 7, 2014)

One of the baits That I had tested also came in a different container when I stocked up for season then when I tested it. Hope that’s not hurting me now. I didn’t think to do a sniff test but I will tomorrow!


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## nick 74 (Dec 4, 2008)

I worded it poorly. I was asking if you considered contacting the lure maker directly. 
Keep your fingers crossed maybe you got a bad batch. Long shot but you never know.


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## 9 (Jan 17, 2000)

Nope, never considered doing that because I wasted my $$ on the product so I’m not wasting my time as well. Lesson learned about that lure manufacturer so shame on me if I waste anything more.


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## James Dymond (Feb 23, 2002)

I had high hopes of coming up with a new favorite bait this year. Was going to send some to Mike to try in his area. Had ten holes in a row in a field where I have caught coyotes and tested lures and baits many times before. Didn't get any action! Tried it a few miles away in a spot that has always been good for me, nothing their either. I guess I will not kill any canines this year.
In the early 2000s I had years of 71 and 55 in a month of trapping and 45 in two weeks once. We had more coyotes and a two day check then. Now not as many coyotes and a one day check. Of course now they are worth trapping averaged about $55 last year. Back when I could catch more I said it was just for fun. They are easier to put up now but it is still work to put up coyotes. Our skunks and raccoon have taken a big hit from distemper and I guess that has got some of the coyotes also.
Maybe I will catch a few beaver for fun this year.

Jim


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## 9 (Jan 17, 2000)

Thank you for thinking of me Jim, that is an honor because I consider you a very good friend. I sure did enjoy spending time with you at the convention and hope to do that again even though you are a non-stop talker I could hardly get a word in edgewise! LOL-LOL-LOL

I remember you were really putting a hurt on them back then Jim. Yes, the more we put up the easier it becomes partly because we're smarter because as we get older we have to do a lot of things smarter to make up for the body. 

There are a lot of factors with our decrease in coyote numbers today, as I'm not unlike you, I'm down 1/2 what I was in the early 2000's though you and I have learned to trap coyotes, we can't trap ghosts! There has always been coyote hunting (dogs) west of me but now there are a lot of folks calling and killing coyote around me. You can't kill bitches in the spring and expect the den full of pups to survive.


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## General Ottsc (Oct 5, 2017)

Thanks for the info Seldom! I was curious though, have you ever tried to make your own lure? 

I'm not sure how involved it would be or how difficult it is because I'm kind of young and ignorant(lol), but it's a thought. And who knows, maybe you'd come up with a formula that has a great success rate if you went that route.

I was considering trying to make my own lure for the water trapping line next year based on a formula in Mike Marsyada's book. He claimed in the book that the lure formula he gave would work very well and in many cases, better than his own brand of lure. I guess it'd be worth a try just to see if it actually works.


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## 9 (Jan 17, 2000)

Don’t get me wrong, there are some very good and honest lure/bait manufacturers out there that have paid 1000’s of dollars for a formula and strive to use the best of the best ingredients. I have no desire at this time of my life to become a manufacturer, time is running out. So, I spend my $$ on others products and then spend the time to sort the wheat from the chaff.

From my career in welding I learned that performing at a high level of consistency is a huge key to success for quality and reputation. As in coyote trapping, consistently being able to catch coyotes brings success by numbers. A lure/bait manufacturer, being consistent with the product is I would think, also a huge key to success but there’s the rub. The vast majority of trappers use only subjectiveness as a measure of the product‘s quality since no one knows the formula and whether or not corners were cut and substandard ingredients used is all secret.

There is one more facet to think about and that’s if a lure/bait is formulated for a specific area in the country. Some manufacturers will tell you and others won’t, some absolutely know and other don’t because they’ve subbed the manufacturing out or tell you all of their product works, but works WHERE?


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## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

Seldom said:


> *I showed anybody who choose to watch that one testing video of mine where I tested an old bottle of lure with a yellow label and tested a new bottle of supposedly the same lure but with a white label. Video shows proof that with test holes 6'-8" away from each lure the coyotes would ONLY work the older, yellow labeled lure!!*
> 
> Yesterday I received another lure order, a different lure then described/tested in my previous paragraph but from the same lure manufacturer to supplement my supply and it had a white label!!!! I opened the bottle and compared the smell with a yellow labeled bottle from last year's purchase. Whoa! Something was certainly different between the two. I had tested the previous year's yellow label without video and the coyotes dug hell out of it as they were suppose too.
> 
> ...


Can you post a link to the video Seldom? Thanks.


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## 9 (Jan 17, 2000)

Go to Youtube and search for my channel - “Seldomfales” (without parentheses) and you’ll find that video toward the top of catalog. There are a couple of testing videos so you might have to watch a couple buy they’re short


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## General Ottsc (Oct 5, 2017)

I can see that. It's definitely easier and a little less time consuming buying lure and testing it, instead of making your own lure and testing it which would take much more time. That is also a tricky part of trying to come up with a formula that would work for a multitude of areas, not just a select few. It still sucks though that your old go-to isn't what it use to be anymore.

I thought it was interesting in Mike Marsyada's book listed one of the ingredients for that lure he said was good, and that otter in particular like, is tonquin musk. I had to look up what it was and where it came from. It comes from a deer in Siberia. How or why an otter would like that scent from deer on the other side of planet is beyond me.


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## BigBlackBirds (Apr 29, 2019)

Seldom said:


> There are a lot of factors with our decrease in coyote numbers today, as I'm not unlike you, I'm down 1/2 what I was in the early 2000's though you and I have learned to trap coyotes, we can't trap ghosts! There has always been coyote hunting (dogs) west of me but now there are a lot of folks calling and killing coyote around me. You can't kill bitches in the spring and expect the den full of pups to survive.


Here is a slightly different perspective from my recollection of roughly the 1998 to 2008 timeframe. For me there were not as many coyotes back then as now. However, I'm specifically referencing my area of knowledge across the lower and western to middle parts of zone 3. I'm 99% sure the coyote population hadn't really hit a big stride there yet and was still building up. 

In those years I was both calling and trapping and simply didn't find as many critters. For a couple years right prior to then I was spending lots of time in Indiana/Illinois and to me Michigan clearly had a fraction of the population of either of those states. Yet you'd think it was a prime time to have a sizable population in Michigan as a good % of the notable land trappers (at least ones I grew up with) had packed it up by then. I started calling in Michigan in 1981 and by the late 90's/early 2000's I'd been calling in 7-8 states and overall there were only a few guys that were having much success Michigan so that wasn't putting any notable pressure on them either. 

My total numbers (combination trapped/hunted) didnt really take a big leap until after 2010. But just looking at numbers its not perfect apples to apples comparison as i did swap around on ground and run more miles and weeks. However, i still hit ground that we've been on for a couple generations and i can compare those catches starting right at 1989 to now and there was a real slow uptick over the years until after 2010. 

for me there was a period from 2011 thru 2015 that the numbers seemed to have substantially peaked. since then things have dropped way off and more so last 2 years. i see four things---1) WAY more hounds. Have always been some but more now running coyotes particularly in march simply for something to shoot. 2) more people watching internet and deciding to catch a few coyotes. the videos, facebook, blog stuff is a pretty new thing and prior there was still a touch of the late 70's/early 80's fur boom silence that I grew up with. individually none of them make a dent but collectively maybe different story. 3) overly liberalized hunting with people deciding to call pups in the summer, night vision, rifles at night, etc. 4) increase in disease. i tossed a huge percentage last year from lice/mangy looking critters.


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## 9 (Jan 17, 2000)

I think it was 2014(could have been 2013?) that Parvo came thrugh the Tri City area from what a Vet, whose clinic is in Freeland, told me. It was epidemic on dog breeders litters she said, wiping many out and it was real tough on my coyote catch numbers as well. After that, possibly due to some of the same circumstances you mentioned, my numbers never rebounded to the 2006-2012 numbers


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