# No Wake!!!!



## MuskyDan (Dec 27, 2001)

Is this a judgement call made by the person writing the ticket?? How do you determine what a wake is?? Some boats throw a bigger wake when idling than a bass boat going 60, how does that law actually work.


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## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

There are a number of items that are used - some jurisdictions use, no white water at the bow or stern of the vessel - 

Some use 5mph as the max speed - 

Some use 'only enough speed to maintain stearage of the vessel'

And a bass boat travel at 60 has one hell of a wake - when the water hits the shore - if he's running 60 in a now wake zone he's going to get hit bad.

No wake is to ensure no damage is done at the shoreline - whither that is to the enviroment, or other vessels moored at the shore line - or human safety there are a number of reasons for it.

ferg....


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## MuskyDan (Dec 27, 2001)

thanks for the reply and that is what I thought but I watched a DNR or state park guy drive a pontoon at a very high rate of speed all around a no wake lake yesterday and I can't help but wonder what would have happened if I would have done the same in my boat. That is why I asked, I don't like those questionable it is up to the mood of the cop laws.


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## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

If he was in the act of perform offical duties then he would be exempt from the law, but he would have to have his blue lights energized and in pursuite of someone or enrout to another scene of urgent distress where his violation of the wake zone is negated by the possbility of loss of life someplace else on the lake - 

ferg....


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## MuskyDan (Dec 27, 2001)

burn the carbon, joy ride, make sure the boat works, what ever you want to call it. It wasn't a police boat. I was just being silly, I understand the point behind what he was doing. I just think it is funny how rules work sometimes.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

The law defines it so I don't see too much interpetation. However, if any law enforcement officer wishes to give a person a break for breaking the law then they can. Just like a mechanic can fix your car at no labor cost to you, just like salesperson at Cabelas can get discounts just because they are an employee, on and on. Just like I have before because I though the individual deserved a break.

Anyway, the definitions are something like, and I don't have all my law references anymore but;

HIGH SPEED BOATING
Operate a vessel at high speed
A person shall not operate a vessel on plane. Have in tow, or shall otherwise assist in the propulsion of a person on waterskis, water sled, surfboard or other similar contrivance.

NO WAKE is very close to what was stated above by Ferg "only enough speed to maintain stearage of the vessel" To the best of my memory no wake is just enough speed to maintain forward movement of the vessel.

What lake was it on? Are you sure it was no wake or was it no high speed boating? Was there specific time restrictions? You are making an accusation here against a person, regardless who ther person is but I would like to hear more info. If there is no more info then......... If they guy was wrong, again regarless who the person was then you should make a complaint. Of course that might be hard because you don't even know what the guy was.


Musky Dan said:


> but I watched a DNR or state park guy


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## MuskyDan (Dec 27, 2001)

And I wasn't really complaining either. I would have said something to him if I thought there was a problem or he was intentionally being stupid. My point was only that if I needed to gas it for some reason other than an emergency would he/she be as understanding.

Also I was truly unclear as to what a no wake could be considered. I've seen boats on the same lake trolling muskies at 5mph throwing a bit of a wake. I was just trying to understand.


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## sullyxlh (Oct 28, 2004)

i thought the law defines no wake speed as no more power as needed to maintain foward momentum,and who's to say there not doing it on purpose,it'd be nice to see a fisher harassment law,THEY do harass on the water too not just on land...


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## snaggs (Jul 20, 2005)

............One may create a wake in a NO Wake Zone...if...there is an emergency...ie: fire aboard...heart attack...boat sinking....to get to safety and secure the safety of other persons aboard...as long as the action does not interfere with the safety of others while commiting the act....judgement call at best.........Ok how's about this....entering the harbor ( narrow entrance ) on the correct side.. red right return...and finding just around the corner 4 other boats ...poised and ready to put the pedal to the metal out to sea.....so.....I continue across their bow and enter the harbor on the other side ( starboard side ) wrong side...( remember rules of the road ) and just enter the harbor under more than no wake speed..... Deputy gives me a ticket.....see ya in court says I....I ask for a jury trial..Deputy fails to make mention of 4 boats on the wrong side of the pier heads exiting the harbor...I bring this up to the prosecutor...prosecutor gets the deputy to add this to his report...only after my review of the report...I ask for the Deputys credentials, was refused by the Sheriff not a freedom of info.act B.S. after 1 1/2 years the case was dropped...Stick to your guns..if you are in the right...I have never acted in my own defense but would have just loved to get into court and win one for the gipper ( ME )
( 1 ) Deputy was one of the boats on the wrong side
( 2 ) Deputy failed to stop and instruct those boaters exiting the harbor on the wrong side of the proper rules of the road
( 3 ) Rules of the road for boaters says when in a possible collision course or even thinking there could be a collision to take evasive action as long as the action does not foster other safety conditions 
( 4 ) Sheriff refuses to give me the file on the Deputy ie: how long on the job? how long doing harbor patrol: does Deputy have a boaters certificate? etc. etc. 
I was totally prepared to defend myself in court..and found this an educational and fun experience...how many people have had the chance to confront the Law in a jury trial...I really wish that the case would have gone foward.......just for my own satisfaction.....see ya on the Waters...:lol:


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

sullyxlh said:


> ...it'd be nice to see a fisher harassment law,THEY do harass on the water too not just on land...


There is one already, has been for years.


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## Jason Adam (Jun 27, 2001)

The Handbook of Michigan Boating Laws and Responsibilities ( http://www.boat-ed.com/mi/handbook/toc.htm ), which is the guide used by the state of michigan in its boaters saftey classes. etc.., defines "no wake" (It's The Law: On The Water ) as :

Slow-No Wake Speed - The slowest speed at which it is still possible to maintain steering and does not create a wake

Additionally, what I do know is that if the slowest speed required to maintain steering still creates a wake, you are still in violation. Just because your boat needs to run at 1200RPM or it waill stall does not make it alright in a no wake zone. In that case you would need to fix your boat.

Dictionary.com(Websters) defines "Wake"(as it applies to boating) as: The visible track of turbulence left by something moving through water.

If you read the law as stated, I think speed is not going to be the deciding factor in a "no wake" scenario, but rather the turbulance from the boat. I dont believe with the definition from the dictionary above that any vessel could ever truely make "no wake", as there is always going to be some visible track in the water from anything that moves through it(i.e a waterbug).

I beleive if you are splaching water up on the shore or rocking other boats at the dock or moored, you're going to get a ticket, and rightfully so.


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## Beave (Aug 26, 2002)

Realistically you're looking at 5mph or less on the gps. 

Of all the boating laws, this seems to be one of the most erratically enforced, which creates a lot of animosity and confusion IMO. The charter boats at Grand Haven and St. Joe go much faster than 5pmh and push wakes up and down the channel all the time.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Beave said:


> ...this seems to be one of the most erratically enforced....


I'm assuming you can provide examples of people who have been arrested for it and others who have not in the same location by any LEO be it a CO, marine deputy or other?


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## double trouble (Nov 20, 2003)

many moons ago we got a ticket in front of deckers landing for violating "no wake". we were going as slow as we could. we had a bad fuel pump that dees sport shop improperly rebuilt. it would not idle right. the officers let other boats go by much faster than we were. it was clearly selective enforcement.we were punks , in an old beater boat, i admit it.1962 glass majic with a 75 starflight evinrude. we didn't fight it because we would have had to miss work, go to algonac twice. once to get a court date and once to meet the judge and who knows what the verdict would have been. it was a crooked sham ,but we paid the $65. i have never been back that way again.i will keep my tourism dollars where i know the fix isn't on. i hope the speed trap has changed.let me know.


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

Here we go!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look it is pretty much common sense here if it is no wake then don't make a wake and you won't get a ticket. If the officer ot employee was breaking the law at the time ok report it if you lke but there is usually a reason for them doing what they are doing.

I am not calling the county everytime A county police officer fies past me on the highway because I have no idea why he did it or where he is going. I tend to worry about myself most of the time and let others worry about their stuff as well. This has the great potential for one of those "my brothers buddy was ticketed by a CO on a lake while he was rowing his girlfriends sisters brothers uncles boat with oars and he created too much of a wake. I heard this from my neighbors uncles mom" and then we can all bash all forms of law enforcement without knowing what the sam hill happened but thats just my opinion i am sure it will be closed soo enough though.

AW


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

:lol: So you admit breaking the law because your vessel was not mechanically sound but you should have been let go and the LEO should have went after someone else. Sounds like an excellent defense. One at a time is how it is done.

I get a kick when someone says something about their tourism dollars...OK do you really think it with bother anyone that much? Please keep them from all of SW Michigan.


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## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

double trouble said:


> many moons ago we got a ticket in front of deckers landing for violating "no wake". we were going as slow as we could. we had a bad fuel pump that dees sport shop improperly rebuilt. it would not idle right. the officers let other boats go by much faster than we were. it was clearly selective enforcement.we were punks , in an old beater boat, i admit it.1962 glass majic with a 75 starflight evinrude. we didn't fight it because we would have had to miss work, go to algonac twice. once to get a court date and once to meet the judge and who knows what the verdict would have been. it was a crooked sham ,but we paid the $65. i have never been back that way again.i will keep my tourism dollars where i know the fix isn't on. i hope the speed trap has changed.let me know.



Yea yea - the 'fix' is in - sounds like so much sour grapes to me - how many time do people get pulled over and ten cars go past faster than you? And you got stopped - once the officer is in an enforcment situation, he is NOT going to drop what he is doing and go after someone else that was speeding fast than you - it was your 'turn' and the visual site of you getting a ticket works as a deterent to others, at least in the short term. (do you slow down when you see an officer on the side of the road? Sure you do) - 

I did maritime law enforcment for years - there is no 'fix' - you catch what you can and 90% of the others 'get away' with it.

Can't be everyplace all the time - 

ferg....
Equipment failure has nothing to with this BTW, if your boat had mechanical problems it should not have been in the water in the first place -


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

Ferg, cmon! You guys always single out people and try to get em because you know they are from out of towm and will not fight it:lol: :lol: :lol: My guess is this if it was an equipment failure you should have fought the ticket with documented proof you had a failure and there would have been a different outcome. I had a speedometer failure and fought it and got a $10 dollar fix it deal instead of $85. They are not out to get you they are there to enforce the laws they swore to uphold thats it. 

AW


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## john warren (Jan 25, 2005)

to a degree its up to the officer. if they feel your being as carefull as you can they won't bother you. if they feel your being thoughtless of your wake, they will certainly have a chat with you, or more.the law says you are responsible for any damage your wake causes. obviously any movement threw the water buy a boat will cause a degree of wake, its your responsibility to reduce your speed to the least wake . usually an idle speed. this is a major concern in marinas where very expensive boats can be dammaged by wake. also in areas where shorelines are sensitive to dammage. your not going to save any appreciable amount of time buy going much faster in these areas so go slow and enjoy the view.=MuskyDan]Is this a judgement call made by the person writing the ticket?? How do you determine what a wake is?? Some boats throw a bigger wake when idling than a bass boat going 60, how does that law actually work.[/quote]


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## double trouble (Nov 20, 2003)

part of the story i didn't tell is that we really were not making a wake. when we were called into the dock we didn't even have to turn arround. the officer just said to come over and waved.if we were going 5 m.p.h. that would be a shock. we were pretty close to the docks and just pulled in without even having to turn arround. that is how slow we were going. the boat had just been repaired and this was our first trip out. it was not serious , the idle was rough below 1000 r.p.m.(catching then sputtering like all magneto motors did) and would stall below 600. it was an old motor. we didn't find out until quite a while later that the mechanic forgot to re-install a return spring in the pump.the officers were quite rude and would not explain how slow was "no wake". we pointed out both the other boats and asked if they were going faster than we were. no answer. 
the lady officer almost got pushed into the lake when she bent over the boat to check out fire extinguisher. i still maintain that we got the shaft.


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## Beave (Aug 26, 2002)

I didn't want to hijack this thread or turn it into a LEO bashing thread Boehr, and I'm sorry I pretty much have. You guys do a good job and I know it's a thankless job most of the time. All I'll say is that there is a definite perception among a lot of fishermen and pleasure boaters that the charter fleet seems to be exempt from tickets for all sorts of things, and violating the no-wake laws is one of them. 

I've watched the charter fleet blow in and out of the channels at Grand Haven and St. Joe for years, both fishing from the piers and in my own boat. When the perch aren't biting the best entertainment on the pier is often to watch the Coasties and the Marine Sheriff's deputies pulling over boaters. I've seen a lot of pleasure boaters pulled over and given courtesy inspections... lifejackets counted, flares checked for expiration dates, tickets written, etc. I have never witnessed a Charter boat pulled over, not once, and they're often the worst offenders on the lake with regards to yielding right-of-way and wake speeds. 

As for a specific example, I only have one for you. In St. Joe two years ago I was pushing about 4-5mph on the GPS of my 17' Lund coming in after a morning of fishing. One of the Capt. Hook charter boats passed me coming in about halfway to the Coast Guard station. Based on how quickly he passed me he was probably going at least 8mph. Regardless of his speed, he was definitely pushing a wake. And since it was a pretty busy morning and he was ticking off enough people, there was quite a bit of chatter and salty language on the radio directed his way. There was a Sheriff's boat coming up the channel and I figured, "this guy is gonna get it", instead he waved at the guys in the Sheriff's boat, they waved back, and that was it. I can't guarantee you that they weren't giving everyone a free pass that day, but I really doubt anyone else in a 30+' boat would've been allowed to get away with it. 

Again, I'm not trying to get on the LEO's, but that's been my observation and one that anecdotally I've heard again and again from other fishermen.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Well I guess cops just like picking on the little guy and that is the end of that. Yes the fix is in and as the saying goes, excusses are like a$$ holes, everyone got one. I would recommend selling your boats and cease fishing that way the state would not get money from you for boat registrations, trailer plates and fishing licenses, and you can't get a ticket if you aren't there. Geez, I like being retire and not having to be politically correct or even the resembalance of polite anymore.


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## Overdew (Sep 7, 2004)

boehr said:


> Well I guess cops just like picking on the little guy and that is the end of that. Yes the fix is in and as the saying goes, excusses are like a$$ holes, everyone got one. I would recommend selling your boats and cease fishing that way the state would not get money from you for boat registrations, trailer plates and fishing licenses, and you can't get a ticket if you aren't there. Geez, I like being retire and not having to be politically correct or even the resembalance of polite anymore.


 
:lol: :lol: :lol: 
Please move to the comedy forum


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## MuskyDan (Dec 27, 2001)

Get in the game!!! If you think for a moment that the laws are set up completely to protect the public and not at all to generate revenue than your smoking crack!!!!!!

Click it or ticket??? I have seen so many rinky dink things, and then to let a drunk cop go instead of giving them a DUI.

But when it is time to vote on the mills, and whether or not the police force grows or shrinks well things change.

I respect the police, dnr, and other LEO's and I am glad their out there doing what their doing. This post began as a question and a jab at someone blantantly breaking the rules but not really a slam. I didn't care I just found it amusing, but you LEO's should get off of your horses.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Glad I'm not an LEO anymore. I think this one has said everything possible, Good night.


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