# Ultimate



## WHITE BEAR (Jan 12, 2005)

I see a lot of folks on here use the Ultimates for fishing and I really like the looks of them. I was wondering how they are for big water when compared to a s.o.t. as far as safety is concerned. Right now I have a Future Beach Angler 144 s.o.t. and for the money(under $400) I love it. It is VERY stable and fairly comfortable. I am kind of a beginner to kayaking and kayak fishing and I can tell already that it won't be long before I want to upgrade.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

The Ultimate is a tremendous fishing platform. It's achilies heel is big deep water however, just like any other open craft that isn't self bainling. It handles rough water pretty well but it is not a self bailing boat as you know. You can get a full set of skirts for it including body lock skirting but it would be a large expense and it would not fully seal the cockpit, just slow down the water entry. The boat was built for stand up fly fishing salt water flats so it's very stable and that helps in big water a little. The guys that take this boat on big deep water outings often use small electric bildge pumps and they always carry a manual pump (as do I regardless where I fish).
Deep water entry into this boat is not the easiest....and far more difficult than your average SOT. If the boat gets swamped, you're looking at 100's of gallons of water to either move to shallow water or to try and empty. Good luck! And in cold water without (even with) the appropriate gear, you better have help near by. The boat will float when filled but it will float right at the gunnels and any chop will continue to fill the boat as you are trying to empty the boat making things even more difficult. 

I love mine and I have no concerns on any inland lake. You have to pay attention ofcourse but that goes for any yak. The boat is incredibly stable and very easy to fish out of. I like the open floor in front since I can fit tackle bages and camera cases etc and not feel cramped at all. Everything is within easy reach. The downside to that openness, at least on the 12 is your are somewhat limited on mounting locations. This has been minimized with the new slidetrack system like on the Wilderness Systems yaks. 

I would take mine on Lake Michigan if the weather was right but I would monitor the weather on a portable VHF, and I would not go alone....basically rules you should follow even on a SOT. 

I'd like to ad a Native Marinar 12 Propel to the collection or a Native Manta Ray 14. Both would compliment the Ultimate perfectly for bigwater situations.


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## WHITE BEAR (Jan 12, 2005)

That's kind of what I was figuring. I'll probably end up getting an Ultimate eventually but I'll also keep a SOT for big water situations. Thanks for the reply.


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## Willi_H2O (Mar 6, 2009)

If a boat has a ""big ol bottom" sitting in the water, any wave energy
will hit all that surface area and cause the boat to pitch, yaw, tilt hard.

Great illustrative pictures on this page explaining hull shapes
http://www.topkayaker.net/Articles/Instruction/HullDesign.htm

Often a kayak will behave better in rough water when it sits "in the water"
i.e. heavily loaded, instead of just twitchily floating on top of it all. 

Picture = 18 foot Epic Endurance ,2004 Edition, 
hybrid (Fiberglass,Carbon Fibre,Kevlar) design.










*Influences on Stability in a Kayak*
1) Water conditions
2) Boat shape
3) Boat loading
4) Skill of the paddler
5) The paddler
6) Wind



















*The paddler affects how the boat sits in the water. 
Humans are not rigid stick figures !.
*










Having a seat - very, very, very low in the kayak will make a "twitchy" kayak calm down and act nice.
When the seat is way up high, the kayak will bounce around a lot in response to wave action.

Designing a ""great"" kayak takes thought and engineering, along with some trial and error.
Just blow molding some bathtub shape that floats for maximum profit margin is bogus.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

WHITE BEAR said:


> That's kind of what I was figuring. I'll probably end up getting an Ultimate eventually but I'll also keep a SOT for big water situations. Thanks for the reply.


As you know, the Ultimate has a tunnel hull design. It will behave differently in the water than traditional yaks that traditionalists are accustomed to. The Ultimate's seat sits about an inch above the hull floor on the Ultimate, and can be adjusted to sit higher. You can also adjust the and lower the front bar of the seat to adjust the angle. You can also buy a seat riser that will help if you want to sit higher and site fish without standing. Plus it makes it easier to stand if you choose.....the Ultimate makes a great impression of a stand up paddle board if that's how you want to use it. I doubt anyone would confuse a stand up paddle board with a touring boat. That's how stable it is and those that actually own them and use them daily will second those facts. Initial stability is tremendous but secondary stability is not nearly as strong as other designs. It was never designed to be a glossy go fast touring yak. The boat pictured above is a beauty for sure and the engineering and design is tremendous for its intention. It would be worthless when used how the Ultimate was designed for however, and vice versa. Since you are interested in a kayak for fishing, you'll need to filter some of the info you might get here. Traditionalists and non fishing folks sometimes have a difficult time understanding how to separate the two.


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## WHITE BEAR (Jan 12, 2005)

I did used to own a Perception Captiva and though it was not as fancy as the kayak pictured above it was great for paddling out on Grand Traverse Bay or anywhere for that matter. It would have however made a terrible fishing platform and that is what I'm interested in now. I understand that a traditional style kayak can handle a lot more conditions than most fishing yaks but I don't plan on fishing in any gales or high seas.


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## fisheater (Nov 14, 2010)

Hello White Bear, I think the best advice is to consider what you would be using the new boat for, and if you would be keeping the old boat for a back-up. If I got into big water more I too would look at the Manta Ray 14 or a Tarpon 16, but somewhere I'd have to paddle a Trident 15 also. The point is you need to have the right tool for the job. If you want to stand and fish and the open deck appeals to you then the Ultimate would be a great choice. I river fish alot, and paddle upstream alot, the shallow arced hull of my canoe is a more efficient paddling design than a tunnel hull. I would recommend a little bit of rocker for a river craft. If you are fishing big inland lakes you may want to look at an Ultimate 16 (I think they still make one) or a canoe without alot of freeboard. Any boat will be a compromise, you just have to determine what your needs are. I really like the open deck of an Ultimate or a canoe for fishing, except in the Great Lakes


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

I agree with Fisheater. Every boat will offer up a compromise and no boat will excel in every fishing/water condition. Getting a boat that works for you and your needs is what is important. Everyone has favorites but there are a lot of quality boats available to meet many needs. I would like to get a second boat that excels at different water than my Ultimate. The new Necky 13 really has me interested since it is supposed to be a speedy sot, especially for a 13 footer. The OK Trident Ultra 4.7 is another boat of interest. Both of these would be far different then my current ride. Heck, there are a number of sot's I'm interested in. When doing my initial research I wondered why many guys that were dedicated yak fisherman had multiple boats.....it didn't take long to understand. 

On news stands right now is Kayak Angler magazine. They only print 3-4 times a year but the current issue is a buyers guide and lists most models. Good starting point to see whats out there and then investigate further.


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## Ryno (May 5, 2007)

WHITE BEAR said:


> I see a lot of folks on here use the Ultimates for fishing and I really like the looks of them. I was wondering how they are for big water when compared to a s.o.t. as far as safety is concerned. Right now I have a Future Beach Angler 144 s.o.t. and for the money(under $400) I love it. It is VERY stable and fairly comfortable. I am kind of a beginner to kayaking and kayak fishing and I can tell already that it won't be long before I want to upgrade.


I just ordered a Jackson Coosa, which is basically a SOT. It's designed for rivers but you might check it out if fishing is going to be a priority. I did a lot of research, looked at a lot of boats, including the Ultimate, Manta Ray, and others. I don't think you can go wrong with any of those boats. It was a tough call. Just make sure you think long and hard about where you'll use the boat the most: rivers, small lakes, or big waters.

I'll post some pics of my camo coosa when I get it. Good luck out there.


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## jimmy johans (Feb 19, 2007)

I saw a 9.5 foot Ultimate at Franks for $585.00. You guys mention Ultimate but always bigger length. Is 9.5 going to work for me?
I also saw the Manta Ray as mentioned above. 12 foot Angler $785.00
regular 12 foot Manta Ray $585.00. Is Angler worth 200 dollars?


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Don't spend $200 extra for the angler version! It's a couple of rod holder bases, a rod holder and an anchor trolley and anchor....you can get all of that for a lot less than $200 on your own. If it is a current Manta Ray it will have slide tracks up on the gunnels that will make mounting equipment a breeze. But for $585 it is probably a left over.....which is just fine, that is a heck of a price. Still easy to mount equipment! The Manta Rays are a great platform.

The 9.5 Ultimate is probably a bit small for an adult male. It is geared more towards small women and children. I don't know your height or weight but I wouldn't go smaller than a 12 in the ultimate and many prefer the 14.5.


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## centerpin (Jun 13, 2009)

I was also considering the 9.5 ultimate for the reasons of weight and shorter length for river fishing. Has anyone around 5'9" and 150lbs used one? How does it fit?. If it fits I am getting one!

My theory is 12' is really too long for smaller rivers at least to me it is, Pivoting is the big factor. Being able to turn and not hit stuff is important while navigating around logs jams and such. Many times I have barely made it in my 8' mini drifter, cant imagine a 12' long boat. 

Secondary reasons for the 9.5 include carrying the yak down a river trail to the water and busting some minor brush one the way.also entering a small creek with insane amounts of logs that never gets fished...

Like others I was thinking a 9 or 10' yak for rivers and 13 to 14 for the big lake like others have suggested. 

Natives website does describe the 9.5 used in such a way. Only thing stopping me is the size issue.


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## centerpin (Jun 13, 2009)

I couldn't find any first hand reviews of a full sized adult using a 9.5 ultimate while fishing. Only reviews by parents concerning children's use of the kayak. Also some of the weight capacity's thrown around their forums seem awfully low.

The old town vapor 10 is very similar in specs and has a decent price with some decent carrying capacity considering size. Found some good reviews including a 280lb 6' tall texan liking it. So for now that's my stealth river boat choice.


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