# Outdoor wood boilers



## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

Gamekeeper said:


> The salesmen always tout the bug thing. Never see it. Logs come in through a chute into the old coal bin, and I sweep up regularly.
> Every person has a list of needs, likes, dislikes, Fears, etc. What I really hoped to gain by it.
> When I netted out my list of pluses/minuses, I came to a good list of conclusions.
> 
> ...


 A simple insulated chimney extension will get the smoke out of their faces. My stove has a chimney bypass handle which allows the smoke to quickly empty out the firebox and up the chimney. Can't blame you for not wanting one especially having natural gas and being in town.


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## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

lmholmes11 said:


> I have had a Ridgewood OWB for 2 years at my house, and have been filling a boiler at the farm for years. As others have said, you have to like or put up with cutting wood, there's no getting around that. And if you have Nat Gas it won't be worth it. Even if you don't have to buy it and cut yourself. Heck, with propane prices right now, if they are the same next fall I probably won't burn at all


Ridgewood is a solid stove I know many that have them and love them. Only issues is the damper door solonoid burns out quite often.


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## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

swampbuck said:


> I have a wonder wood stove. Automatic damper. Get about 6-8 hrs on an armload. Use far less wood than my neighbor with an outdoor stove and smaller house.


Like how many splits are in an arm load?


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

I live on an acreage in the country that has water sewer and Nat gas.
The math won't work here. I save $10-15 dollars for every day I burn. 

Emissions are the bane of outside wood boilers.

Once a township adopts an opacity ordinance, they all get shutdown.


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## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

I


Gamekeeper said:


> I live on an acreage in the country that has water sewer and Nat gas.
> The math won't work here. I save $10-15 dollars for every day I burn.
> 
> Emissions are the bane of outside wood boilers.
> ...


I never knew you could live out in the country with town necessity's. Do you keep your furnace fan on to keep the house evenly heated?


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

When they rebuilt the road, the township had the infrastructure put under it.
The municipal water authority allowed adjacent townships to join their system.
Not every home hooked on. This property did.
No one will believe the amount of ng we used to use.
I set the baseline year 1 for future improvements.
I measure my energy reduction efforts by decrease/degree day.
"I used to use X cubic feet of gas /degree day and now I use Y." Same for electricity.
10 years ago I set about a mission to lower the building operating costs by 75%. 

I prioritized my list of changes for best long term benefit and resale.
Insulation gave greatest benefit/$ spent. R49 ceilings specifically were the biggest individual change.
Then changing the furnaces to 98%eff w/ air cleaning and filtration as they were needed. Computerized thermostats. Don't heat when not there saves a ton. Insulation allows a fast delta T for comfort. Both up and down.
Hot water tank was leaking so, I spit the system, 1 on demand for the lower use part of the house, and a smaller tank for the high use area.

Then I added a 1557 Hotblast, and 32' of insulated stainless chimney liner. Tried soft and hard coal, couldn't get the overnite burn time I need.
Combustion air already pulled from outside, and my wood burning odyssey began.
5 years of fiddling with that, pulled it, put it in the barn, and went to a high efficiency wood stove.
I burn one third the wood or less.
Save same amount of Nat gas, with a fraction of the work.

I have about 10 mins of high opacity when lighting (which is my threshold for polluting) If I recall, at low I am at about 3 gm/hr. And of course all the burned wood is as seasoned as my wood shed allows. Sometimes it has been drying 2 years or more. First standing, then cut, split, stacked, then moved to the bin, then burnt to ash, then shoveled out, swept up, and dumped in my gardens. Anyone should be able to see that burning wood is a lot of material handling.

And many people burn under seasoned wood, and have to boil off water from it first to get it to burn decently. So any boiler user that is under the gun for wood faces that as well.

If someone wants an explanation of degree days, ask.

Every persons circumstance is unique, and step by step they can walk the journey.
If I was going to spend 10k on a boiler, I'd first spend 2500 on insulation. There's tax credits, insurance savings, measurable cost savings, and no issues if you sell.

People forget that we only heat in MI from about 10/15 through 5/15 so, 2 mos of climbing demand, then about 4 of steady, then 1 tapers off.


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## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

Gamekeeper said:


> When they rebuilt the road, the township had the infrastructure put under it.
> The municipal water authority allowed adjacent townships to join their system.
> Not every home hooked on. This property did.
> No one will believe the amount of ng we used to use.
> ...


I agree. I see it way too often people think an outside wood boiler is gonna fix the leaky farm house. Those wood piles disappear extremely fast. Make the home efficient first and you will use a lot less wood.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

I try to be thorough, but it comes off as preachy.
I could easily dupe a Central boiler dual plane system in my shop.
There isn't enough gain to be had anymore for me.

My home has a 1" gas line. There were winters when it delivered the maximum it could flow for several months straight. I was the largest residential natural gas user the energy guy from Consumers had ever seen. They though the pipe was broken.

That was not a title I wanted.
Now, our old shack uses less/sq Ft than many cheaply built 70's homes.
I was shocked the first time I saw snow on the roof.
I just wanted to be able to spend my retirement here on the grounds, and heating costs might have made that impossible. Fracking and my efforts changed that.
Diligence and thoroughness pays off. Make a plan, implement the pan. A dollar saved is one less to earn. Or one more to grow.
Buy those shrink wrap window kits wholesale online. They work.

Everyone has to make their situation work for them.

The last of my more preachy comments is this:

You can do more good things for yourself and for others if you don't use your resources paying for wasted energy.

Tell her to put a sweatshirt on.


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## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

Gamekeeper said:


> I try to be thorough, but it comes off as preachy.
> I could easily dupe a Central boiler dual plane system in my shop.
> There isn't enough gain to be had anymore for me.
> 
> ...



This is great.


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## grapestomper (Jan 9, 2012)

cakebaker said:


> You shouldn't be burning pumps up that fast. How is your pump mounted? What brand? Stove temp? Are you pulling from the bottom or top of the tank? Air Bleed screw? Softened water? What water treatment?


I run two pumps one for each area I heat. both are mounted vertically and the water enters from the top. No soft water. I run water treatment. Don't have the brand name handy. I don't have a closed system so there is no need for an air bleed screw. Water comes from the top of the tank into the pump. TACO pump, I have the pumps run continuous. They do not start and stop with the thermostat in the house.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

grapestomper said:


> I run two pumps one for each area I heat. both are mounted vertically and the water enters from the top. No soft water. I run water treatment. Don't have the brand name handy. I don't have a closed system so there is no need for an air bleed screw. Water comes from the top of the tank into the pump. TACO pump, I have the pumps run continuous. They do not start and stop with the thermostat in the house.


My two pumps are on the back of the stove with bleeders on each pump. Installer told me you probably don't need them but if your stove ever gets emptied of water for any reason it's a good way to get that little bit of air out. Every now and then I crack them open. Haven't seen air yet. They're not Taco pumps, but I know the installer recommended a better pump than the manufacture of the stove recommended. He said the pumps are better at the stove pushing instead of pulling at the initial start up because you won't get air in the pumps.

Everyone has their own theory. My theory is that I don't have any open flame in the house and no danger of a chimney fire. There have been two houses burn within 2 miles of me within the last year alone due to chimney fires.

House was built in '95 and I burned a Jotul stove in the basement for 5 years. I'd never go back to burning full time in the house.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Gamekeeper said:


> Tell her to put a sweatshirt on.


I tell her to get up and do something or grab a blanket.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

2508speed said:


> Everyone has their own theory. My theory is that I don't have any open flame in the house and no danger of a chimney fire. There have been two houses burn within 2 miles of me within the last year alone due to chimney fires.


Chimney fires are caused by a lack of maintenance or burning wood that is too high in moisture content.


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## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

Pumps must pull from the bottom and the return water goes to the top. You are probably sucking air in when the temps vary inside the water tank. Not only that but when you return the water to the bottom of the tank that creates condensation with the ash line which eventually will destroy the stove. Set your pumps up to pull water from the bottom ports and return the water to the top ports and your pumps will last a long time.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

cakebaker said:


> Like how many splits are in an arm load?


Guess I never heard that term. I seldom use split wood. Most of what I burn comes from The waste in Public land clear cut. It is round wood. Which from my expierience burns slower.

A fair average would be 1-8", 2- 5 to 6" and a couple small 2" logs. 18-20"long


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## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

swampbuck said:


> Guess I never heard that term. I seldom use split wood. Most of what I burn comes from The waste in Public land clear cut. It is round wood. Which from my expierience burns slower.
> 
> A fair average would be 1-8", 2- 5 to 6" and a couple small 2" logs. 18-20"long


My owb went 12hrs on a load like that yesterday.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

I am guessing the outdoors temp had something to do with that. When the temp gets close to 40, I let the furnace take care of it.


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## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

swampbuck said:


> I am guessing the outdoors temp had something to do with that. When the temp gets close to 40, I let the furnace take care of it.


A great designed system had something to do with that.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

That very well could be. My knowledge of them is limited to a neighbor who has one. Every time he opens the door and sees it smoldering, he stands there with the door open until it's a roaring fire...lol

I don't have a problem with OWB's, just can't justify the cost in my case, at this time. I have a very good indoor system. And can deal with them mess.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

swampbuck said:


> That very well could be. My knowledge of them is limited to a neighbor who has one. Every time he opens the door and sees it smoldering, he stands there with the door open until it's a roaring fire...lol
> 
> I don't have a problem with OWB's, just can't justify the cost in my case, at this time. I have a very good indoor system. And can deal with them mess.


Me neither, I like the concept, but it has to work for the homeowner.

Any opinions on Grundfoss (sp?) pumps?


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## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

Gamekeeper said:


> Me neither, I like the concept, but it has to work for the homeowner.
> 
> Any opinions on Grundfoss (sp?) pumps?


Go with the grundfos alpha pump. What are you planning to use it for?


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## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

swampbuck said:


> That very well could be. My knowledge of them is limited to a neighbor who has one. Every time he opens the door and sees it smoldering, he stands there with the door open until it's a roaring fire...lol
> 
> I load mine and forgetaboutit.
> 
> I don't have a problem with OWB's, just can't justify the cost in my case, at this time. I have a very good indoor system. And can deal with them mess.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

I built a radiant floor system for the addition on my barn, and I never finished it. It would need a pump, and Taco vs Grundfos came to mind from this thread. It's a twin loop heated slab. Usually, I just light a stove, but I really should finish it for next year.


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## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

Gamekeeper said:


> I built a radiant floor system for the addition on my barn, and I never finished it. It would need a pump, and Taco vs Grundfos came to mind from this thread. It's a twin loop heated slab. Usually, I just light a stove, but I really should finish it for next year.


Check out the grundfos alpha or the taco bumblebee


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

I have a central boiler, had it since 2007. I heat a 2800 sq foot log home and a 672 sq ft garage. I use to heat with a propane indoor boiler. My heating bill was through the roof, pretty close to a 100bucks a week just to heat the house, and hot water.roughly 3600 bucks for the winter. sept- may. Once i swithced to the outside boiler i spend 1600-2000 for wood (depending on supplier) hauled in and i cut. I heat my water and my garage. The mess is outside, I feed 2-3 times a day, depending on temps. I heat my water all summer.I order 2 semis every year. It sucks to cut and stack, I actually hate it. Once that chore is done its no big deal to walk out in the morning to fill the box before work, and after work and before beddy by time. It is what it is. It saves me money, it kills my back and my time but I aint spending 3-4 grand any more to heat the pine palace.


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## riverrat424 (Oct 20, 2008)

With some of you guys talking pumps I am just curious what your pumps are running as in gpm. I have had an outdoor boiler for two years now I love the stove itself but still can't get my hot water right 105 is the max I get without the mixing valve. Also who has a heat plate to a side arm and opinions. Thanks in advance


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

riverrat424 said:


> With some of you guys talking pumps I am just curious what your pumps are running as in gpm. I have had an outdoor boiler for two years now I love the stove itself but still can't get my hot water right 105 is the max I get without the mixing valve. Also who has a heat plate to a side arm and opinions. Thanks in advance


My OWB shuts off at 180 and the low side I have set to kick on at about 145-150.
I don't know what GPM the pumps are. 
Here is some info I took off the pumps. I have 1 pump for the garage and 1 for the house on the back of the stove about 75' run to the house and 50' to the garage.

Bell and Gosset 
PL-36B C-50g
115 V
60 HZ
1 PH.
214 W 2.1 Ag

Thermally protected 
Max Pressure 150 PSI

Those temps that I quoted were at the stove. I have no idea what the temps are inside.

Hope this helps.


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## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

riverrat424 said:


> With some of you guys talking pumps I am just curious what your pumps are running as in gpm. I have had an outdoor boiler for two years now I love the stove itself but still can't get my hot water right 105 is the max I get without the mixing valve. Also who has a heat plate to a side arm and opinions. Thanks in advance


What pump are you using? What size pex? I use a 20 plate heat exchanger and love it. Sidearms tend to build up with limescale badly which could be affected the heat of your water.


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## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

2508speed said:


> My OWB shuts off at 180 and the low side I have set to kick on at about 145-150.
> I don't know what GPM the pumps are.
> Here is some info I took off the pumps. I have 1 pump for the garage and 1 for the house on the back of the stove about 75' run to the house and 50' to the garage.
> 
> ...


That pl 36 is a badass pump


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## KEITH0828 (Oct 20, 2010)

I have the US STOVE 1600EF, it is a forced air unit this year I went through 5 face cords. Last year 9 or 10. In my opinion I like this more then a boiler it is much more simpler. here is a linkhttp://www.usstove.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=125&product_id=980


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

KEITH0828 said:


> I have the US STOVE 1600EF, it is a forced air unit this year I went through 5 face cords. Last year 9 or 10. In my opinion I like this more then a boiler it is much more simpler. here is a linkhttp://www.usstove.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=125&product_id=980


How is the duct work ran? And how far from the house is yours? Chimney?


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## KEITH0828 (Oct 20, 2010)

2508speed said:


> How is the duct work ran? And how far from the house is yours? Chimney?


the 10" supply is run right to the gas furnace plenum through a basement window I took out, the 12" return is used as a common return in the basement with a 14x14 filter box that i made for it. The unit is 5' from the house. There is a calculation for draft and the distance from the peek of your house in the manual. My stack is 9' above the unit. My house is a low peek ranch home.


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## Jimbos (Nov 21, 2000)

I had to dig this thread back up. I'm torn, I need something to supplement my existing furnace when I retire next year. 
I went in to get a price on the new thermostat run automatic Quadrafire Adventure III, and the sales person tried to talk me into an QWB, and he doesn't even sell them.
Now I'm truly in a turmoil as to what to do.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

Is that a pellet stove?
An OWB is a ton of work, literally.
If you look at it as exercise and you like cutting and splitting wood it's nice.
I've only had to buy wood once since 2004 and that was last spring. 
I talked with the guy in Fairview hardware,where they sell wood stoves, and he says he has an outdoor boiler that burns pellets. Says he can buy pelletscheaper than firewood. But then you need storage forall the pellets to keep them dry.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

For supplemental heat, using it when you want to, a high efficiency woodstove is perfect.
We deliver more heat for less wood than our former USS 1557 did. The wood furnace designs are not governed by EPA, and send most of their heat up the flue. More smoke, short burn times, and more work.
Our township has a moratorium on outside wood burners.
As I am a casual wood burner, using it to lower costs, and clean up my woodlots, I want ease of use, convenience, and output for effort.
Do the math. Look at your utility bill. Go to consumers and see the degree day graphs. You'll be able to pick out when it made sense historically for you to burn, and when it doesn't.

I'm not fiddling with a stove around the clock to save 10 bucks. Saving 70-100 during a cold snap, then I am interested. YMMV of course.


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## Jimbos (Nov 21, 2000)

2508speed said:


> Is that a pellet stove?
> An OWB is a ton of work, literally.
> If you look at it as exercise and you like cutting and splitting wood it's nice.
> I've only had to buy wood once since 2004 and that was last spring.
> I talked with the guy in Fairview hardware,where they sell wood stoves, and he says he has an outdoor boiler that burns pellets. Says he can buy pelletscheaper than firewood. But then you need storage forall the pellets to keep them dry.



It's wood, 4.0 cubic foot box.

What I was seriously looking at was the Blaze King Princess, but their dealer network is just too damn far away. The "stated" burn time was in the 20+ hour range,(I know,I know), and the reviews are great.

Then I come across this Quadrafire, all automatically controlled with a linked thermostat. It seemed to me it would alleviate the up and down of a burn cycle, and it also claimed a 20+ burn time, even if in the real world it was 12 hours, I could live with that. Also I have a quad dealer close by, and there's a gold star dealer in Gaylord.

Now I'm just not sure, I'm on my phone researching which sort of sucks, but when I get back home I'll do more searching. 
I have 26 hard core rolling acres, and I don't mine cutting and splitting wood, but 10-12 full cord, forget that. I do have 10 split face cord to season coming in a couple of weeks to supplement what I churn out myself.


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## Jimbos (Nov 21, 2000)

Gamekeeper said:


> For supplemental heat, using it when you want to, a high efficiency woodstove is perfect.
> We deliver more heat for less wood than our former USS 1557 did. The wood furnace designs are not governed by EPA, and send most of their heat up the flue. More smoke, short burn times, and more work.
> Our township has a moratorium on outside wood burners.
> As I am a casual wood burner, using it to lower costs, and clean up my woodlots, I want ease of use, convenience, and output for effort.
> ...


I didn't realize that OWB's were an issue in some townships, I'll have to check, but my closest neighbors are still over 450 feet away, I do still gun hunt but I am most definitely getting boxed in.

I don't want to dink with a stove all night long either which lead me to big box, long burn time stoves initially.

Also, I was just outside with the dog, and it is most definitely snowing on May 14. This is sick.


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## Jimbos (Nov 21, 2000)

.....


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

Jimbos said:


> I didn't realize that OWB's were an issue in some townships, I'll have to check, but my closest neighbors are still over 450 feet away, I do still gun hunt but I am most definitely getting boxed in.
> 
> I don't want to dink with a stove all night long either which lead me to big box, long burn time stoves initially.
> 
> Also, I was just outside with the dog, and it is most definitely





Jimbos said:


> It's wood, 4.0 cubic foot box.
> 
> What I was seriously looking at was the Blaze King Princess, but their dealer network is just too damn far away. The "stated" burn time was in the 20+ hour range,(I know,I know), and the reviews are great.
> 
> ...


I googled the Quadrafire. This looks like an excellent stove IMO. I like the fact it has a programable thermostat.
Looks to be about $3500.00 plus installation.
I'dgo with a stainless steel chimney if you don't already have a chimney. Straight up through the roof if possible.

I didn't notice a clean out on it. Do you have to scoop out the ashes, or is there a drop pan?

Fairview Hardware sells them. They have many other brand stoves too and a nice showroom with lots of stoves and several operating.
I don't know anything about how their service is but they've been around forever.


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## Jimbos (Nov 21, 2000)

2508speed said:


> I googled the Quadrafire. This looks like an excellent stove IMO. I like the fact it has a programable thermostat.
> Looks to be about $3500.00 plus installation.
> I'dgo with a stainless steel chimney if you don't already have a chimney. Straight up through the roof if possible.
> 
> ...



Nope, no drop pan, what's underneath in the pedestal base is the electronics.

That was one feature that I did not like.

I'll check out Fairview, I've certainly heard of them.


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