# Clinton River



## stinger63 (Nov 25, 2003)

This river is so within reach and almost being in everyones preverable back yard instead of asking questions just get out check it out and watch other people that are there fishing.Ask a few questions to the anglers there then watch and learn its how I learned 99% of my fishing hands on.The internet wasnt around back then and it what cut down on the pissing and bickering.


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## stinger63 (Nov 25, 2003)

> I have been fishing for 31 years.


Fishing since the day you were born must have been born with a fishing pole in hand right out of the womb:lol:


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## stinger63 (Nov 25, 2003)

ESOX said:


> What is it about running water that turns some otherwise decent people into putzes?
> Seriously, there is more dissent in one month in one of the river forums than there is in onel year in all the all the open water forums combined.


You have a body of flowing water that isnt very wide and small stretch that isnt very long with many good fishing areas and a over population of people from the largest metropoliten area in the state all fighting to get thier piece of it which isnt big enough for everybody and some being very over protective about it not that it is a bad thing to an extent.its an asset that there for everybody to enjoy but this river just cant handle all the fishing pressure from so many people.Then you have sites like this one that draw out even more people to come out of the closet and want to fish there.The overly protective people get P OED when someone on here starts being loosed lipped about what stretch of river and other information on this site because they think they own the whole dam river and dont want anyone else fishing it.Well those people are the ones that start pissing and whining when people start talking about the precious clinton river.There needs to be some kinda balance protecting the resource and helping people that want to learn how to fish because they have lived in a closet all their lives and they 30 something years old and the door just got unlocked to let them out.Dont get me wrong I DONT MIND HELPING OUT PEOPLE but there are somethings that people can just get out and learn by themselves by doing what I mentioned in an above post.Personaly there are some things on this site that have realy been urking me lately that people are doing.I just wish everyone would learn to agree and disagree with out the bickering an attacking people.I wish this river was much larger to accomodate everyone who wants to learn how to fish and enjoy it that or an even larger part of the states population would just leave then everyone would be happy.Oh and Back2spool dont take my comment too personaly I was just kidding around with you and being sarcastic


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## uofmguy68 (Mar 16, 2008)

who runs the River Bend Park just the other side of Yates cider mill, i was wanting to see if i could find any maps of trails in the park and parking spots...


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## Chrome steel (Apr 6, 2003)

That would be Shelby Twp municipal parks and recreation,there building is located at Vandyke and 24 mile rd. I'm not sure if the supply maps or not? but look them up on net and give them a call.


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## Silverexpress (Sep 6, 2006)

Stinger63,

Here's an interesting view regarding your comments:
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Joe LaCross drives American cars. Always has. Born and raised in the blue-collar suburbs of Detroit, this son of a welder wouldn't dream of rolling past his autoworker neighbors in a Toyota. But not long ago the 38-year-old pulled into the driveway of his Sterling Heights home in a vehicle wreaking even more havoc in his home state.

A moving van.

"I grew up here," said LaCross, as he packed to move to Florida in search of a job. "My family is here. My wife's family is here. I love everything about Michigan.

"Everything," he said, picking up a plastic storage tub, "except the economy."

People are leaving Michigan at a staggering rate. About 109,000 more people left Michigan last year than moved in. It is one of the worst rates in the nation, quadruple the loss of just eight years ago. The state loses a family every 12 minutes, and the families who are leaving -- young, well-educated high-income earners -- are the people the state desperately needs to rebuild.

Long treated as a symptom of Michigan's economic woes, outmigration has exploded into a massive problem of its own, a slow-motion Katrina splintering families, gutting state coffers and crippling an already hobbled economy, one moving van at a time.

"I never thought I'd leave," said LaCross, looking around his empty Michigan home. "What happens now?"

Poorer, less educated

Michigan's exodus is one of the state's best known but least understood problems. Long ignored or downplayed, outmigration has been shrugged off partly because it was assumed that those who were leaving were unemployed blue-collar workers and retirees, groups that, in economic terms, don't cripple the state with their departure.

But a Detroit News analysis of U.S. Census Bureau and Internal Revenue Service data reveals that every day, Michigan gets less populated, less educated, and poorer because of outmigration.

The state's net loss to outmigration -- the number of people leaving the state minus those moving in from other states -- has skyrocketed since 2001. Although the Census Bureau does not report totals moving in and out each year, Internal Revenue Service records show that the population decline is a result of two disturbing trends: The number of Michigan residents leaving the state rose 25 percent between 2001 and 2007, while the number of new residents moving in plummeted by nearly one-third.


Since 2001, migration has cost Michigan 465,000 people, the equivalent of the combined populations of Grand Rapids, Warren and Sterling Heights -- the state's second-, third- and fourth-largest cities.

Population loss of that magnitude is so rare that its impact has never been studied. But The News' analysis discovered some sobering trends:

Those leaving Michigan are the people the state most needs to keep -- young and college-educated. The state suffered a net loss to migration of 18,000 adults with a bachelor's degree or higher in 2007 alone -- the equivalent of half the staff of the University of Michigan crossing the state line.

"We're home-grown," lamented Dave Stefanic, a former Ford engineer, who with his surgical assistant wife, Cindi, moved to South Carolina in January, leaving behind the dream home they built in Brownstown Township. "To have to leave Michigan because of the economy ... it's depressing."


Dave and Cindi both have college degrees. Dave was laid off from Ford six months ago, but didn't put his house on the market for four more months, hoping to find work in the area. "All the offers I got were out of state," he said.

Those with college educations were more likely to move than those without a degree. One-quarter of adults still in Michigan have at least a four-year college degree, compared to 39 percent of those who left.

In simplest terms, those with the skills to leave Michigan are doing so; high-skilled people from other states who once might have moved to Michigan are choosing to go elsewhere.

"Migration is good for the migrants but bad for the state they're leaving," said Mark Partridge, an economics professor at Ohio State University who specializes in the study of migration patterns. "It's a vicious downward cycle; the best and brightest leave; entrepreneurs don't come to the state because the best and brightest are elsewhere; as more people leave, that leaves fewer people to pay for services. Neither one will make Michigan a very appealing place."


Michiganians who fled the state in 2007 took with them almost $1.2 billion more in paychecks than the paychecks of those moving in. That represents a 45 percent increase in lost wages in just one year, money no longer spent in Michigan businesses, paying mortgages or paying taxes.

Those leaving Michigan had incomes 20 percent higher than those who moved here ($49,700 to $40,000), a disturbing reversal of a long-standing trend.

And those figures don't take into account the "ripple effect" those paychecks would have had here -- an estimated $3.7 billion.

The net loss of school-age children was more than 12,000 in 2007 alone, costing individual school districts roughly $84 million in state aid.


With about 36,000 more households leaving the state than moving in, that leaves 36,000 empty houses and apartments, damaging already weak home values. "When there are more properties on the market, it drives down prices," said Ron Walraven, a real estate agent in West Bloomfield. "With the layoffs and the buyouts at the auto companies, people are leaving. Some are just abandoning their homes."

People moving from state to state are disproportionately young. While almost 13 percent of Michigan's population is over 65, only 2.5 percent of those leaving are that old. That means outmigration is adding to the costs associated with an aging population, such as the state's share of Medicaid payments to retirement homes.


There will be fewer tax dollars to pay for those services, maintain roads or run schools. According to Senate Fiscal Agency estimates, the income leaving the state cost Michigan more than $100 million in personal income tax revenue in 2007 alone.

The impact on communities is harder to quantify, with each departure pulling a thread from the social fabric. The loss of LaCross means a group of buddies will no longer have his trailer to use to go to deer camp; his brother-in-law, Steven Selva, who moved to Florida with LaCross, left a girls softball team without a coach.

"We've got deep roots -- I've got tons of family here," said Vivian Matti, who told her parents over Thanksgiving dinner that she and her family were moving to Coco Beach, Fla.


Over turkey and dressing, the 35-year-old told an achingly familiar story of lost jobs and a foreclosed home. "I've been in Michigan for 15 years and my husband for 30," Matti said. "We're all depressed we're leaving, but there's no other choice."

As Michigan loses population and other states gain, the state is likely to lose more congressional seats, resulting in less clout in Congress. Electoral votes -- based on congressional seats -- probably will decline, giving Michigan less influence in presidential elections when votes are reallocated in 2010.

"These numbers -- my God," said Kurt Metzger, a demographer who heads a local nonprofit. "It's like a perfect storm -- the education, the income, the young people, everything is going in the wrong direction."

Recovery gets harder

As bad as the outmigration numbers are now, Metzger worries they may get worse.

"The pattern used to be that people would move away from Michigan and then move back," Metzger said. "Now, people are moving and then drawing the rest of their (extended) family with them."

Gina Damuth's husband, Fred Damuth, was laid off from Pfizer in 2007. Later that year, they moved from Farmington Hills to North Carolina.

Now, Gina Damuth has convinced her parents to move to North Carolina, too.

"I feel so bad for the people stuck in Michigan," said Damuth, 34. "I was in the Detroit area recently and I didn't realize the number of people who walk with their head down. You can see it if you pay attention -- nobody smiles, everybody looks depressed. My dad says it's scarier now. People are talking about how they don't know if Michigan is going to recover this time."


That recovery will be harder because of the people who have left, said University of Michigan economist Don Grimes. "You can't grow your economy if you're shrinking. You basically have an infrastructure built around a certain size of economy, and if you shrink below that scale, you have fewer people to support the infrastructure."

That can mean higher taxes, poorer services or both.

Some of those costs won't be felt for decades.

"When you lose people in their 20s, in five years, you won't have their kids entering school; in 20 years, you won't have their kids entering the work force," Grimes said. "It puts you in a downward spiral."

Indeed, demographers have said the sharp population losses from 1979 to 1983, when the state lost nearly a half-million people in four years, created an "echo dip" in the state's population nearly two decades later. The current migration, which has seen similar total losses, has lasted twice as long.

'What can you do?'

In Sterling Heights, Joe LaCross Jr.'s father, Joe LaCross Sr., tears up as he helps his "No. 1 son" load his belongings into a van to move across the country.

"You may never see me again," LaCross Sr. said.

"Oh come on," said his son.

The father brought a bottle of his best home-made cherry wine for his son to take to Florida; a piece of the family, a piece of Michigan.

"It's terrible for the people in Michigan," LaCross Sr. said. "It's a beautiful state. But what can you do? You have to work."

[email protected] (313) 222-2175
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If we make it through this, the fishing will be tremendous here is SE MI. Look at what's happening in Detroit with all the people leaving....

Silverexpress
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Detroit - When selecting the best raccoon carcass for the special holiday roast, both the connoisseur and the curious should remember this simple guideline: Look for the paw.

"The paw is old school," says Glemie Dean Beasley, a Detroit raccoon hunter and meat salesman. "It lets the customers know it's not a cat or dog."

Beasley, a 69-year-old retired truck driver who modestly refers to himself as the **** Man, supplements his Social Security check with the sale of raccoon carcasses that go for as much $12 and can serve up to four. The pelts, too, are good for coats and hats and fetch up to $10 a hide.

While economic times are tough across Michigan as its people slog through a difficult and protracted deindustrialization, Beasley remains upbeat.

Where one man sees a vacant lot, Beasley sees a buffet.

"Starvation is cheap," he says as he prepares an afternoon lunch of barbecue **** and red pop at his west side home.

His little Cape Cod is an urban Appalachia of **** dogs and funny smells. The interior paint has the faded sepia tones of an old man's teeth; the wallpaper is as flaky and dry as an old woman's hand.

Beasley peers out his living room window. A sushi cooking show plays on the television. The neighborhood outside is a wreck of ruined houses and weedy lots.

"Today people got no skill and things is getting worse," he laments. "What people gonna do? They gonna eat each other up is what they gonna do."


A licensed hunter and furrier, Beasley says he hunts ***** and rabbit and squirrel for a clientele who hail mainly from the South, where the wild critters are considered something of a delicacy.

Though the flesh is not USDA inspected, if it is thoroughly cooked, there is small chance of contracting rabies from the meat, and distemper and Parvo cannot be passed onto humans, experts say.

Doing for yourself, eating what's natural, that was Creation's intention, Beasley believes. He says he learned that growing up in Three Creeks, Ark.

"**** or rabbit. God put them there to eat. When men get hold of animals he blows them up and then he blows up. Fill 'em so full of chemicals and steroids it ruins the people. It makes them sick. Like the pigs on the farm. They's 3 months old and weighing 400 pounds. They's all blowed up. And the chil'ren who eat it, they's all blowed up. Don't make no sense."

Hunting is prohibited within Detroit city limits and Beasley insists he does not do so. Still, he says that life in the city has gone so retrograde that he could easily feed himself with the wildlife in his backyard, which abuts an old cement factory.

He procures the ***** with the help of the hound dogs who chase the animal up a tree, where Beasley harvests them with a .22 caliber rifle. A true outdoorsman, Beasley refuses to disclose his hunting grounds.

"This city is going back to the wild," he says. "That's bad for people but that's good for me. I can catch wild rabbit and pheasant and **** in my backyard."

Detroit was once home to nearly 2 million people but has shrunk to a population of perhaps less than 900,000. It is estimated that a city the size of San Francisco could fit neatly within its empty lots. As nature abhors a vacuum, wildlife has moved in.

A beaver was spotted recently in the Detroit River. Wild fox skulk the 15th hole at the Palmer Park golf course. There is bald eagle, hawk and falcon that roam the city skies. Wild Turkeys roam the grasses. A coyote was snared two years ago roaming the Federal Court House downtown. And Beasley keeps a gaze of skinned **** in the freezer.

With the beast fresh from the oven, Beasley invites a guest to lunch.

He believes **** meat tastes something like mutton or pork, but to the uneducated pallet, it has the aroma and texture of opossum.

While Beasley preps his **** with simple vinegar brine and spices, there are 100 ways to cook a ****.

There is roast **** with sweet potato, sausage and corn bread stuffing; raccoon cobbler and roast marinated raccoon with liver and onion. It is this reporter's opinion that the best sauce for **** may very well be hunger.

The story of Glemie Dean Beasley plays like a country song. The son of a sharecropper, Beasley left school at 13 to pick cotton. He came to Detroit in 1958. His woman left him in 1970 for a man he calls Slick Willy.

Someone stole his pickup truck and then someone killed his best dog.

"I knowed some hard times," Beasley says. "But a man's got to know how to get hisself through them hard times. Part of that is eating right."

Travels with Charlie [email protected] Travels With Charlie will appear each Thursday in The Detroit News.


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## Billm0066 (Apr 11, 2008)

I love coming in to read about the clinton river, but instead its people whining like little girls, and people posting links to crap about people moving. I thought this section is for fishing Metro Detroit rivers and streams? I was hoping to get some good info because I was going to make a trip there in the next few days, but it looks like I have to look elsewhere. Maybe a moderator should come in and clean some of this **** up?


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## stinger63 (Nov 25, 2003)

How about having a general forum about how to trout fish which would inform everyone on how to read water to catch trout and the type of setups to use like what kinda tackle,line,lures and baits on how to catch trout with out mentioning a specific rivers name.Since fishing for trout on the clinton and other rivers is generaly about the same I think it would eleminate alot of whinning and griping on this river.People can use the knowledge they would potentialy learn about how to trout fish and the rest can and would be hands on learning.Seems pretty easy to me.


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## DE82 (Nov 28, 2007)

stinger63 said:


> How about having a general forum about how to trout fish which would inform everyone on how to read water to catch trout and the type of setups to use like what kinda tackle,line,lures and baits on how to catch trout with out mentioning a specific rivers name.Since fishing for trout on the clinton and other rivers is generaly about the same I think it would eleminate alot of whinning and griping on this river.People can use the knowledge they would potentialy learn about how to trout fish and the rest can and would be hands on learning.Seems pretty easy to me.


That's a really good idea Aaron..I'd be all for that.


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## slammer (Feb 21, 2006)

stinger63 said:


> How about having a general forum about how to trout fish which would inform everyone on how to read water to catch trout and the type of setups to use like what kinda tackle,line,lures and baits on how to catch trout with out mentioning a specific rivers name.Since fishing for trout on the clinton and other rivers is generaly about the same I think it would eleminate alot of whinning and griping on this river.People can use the knowledge they would potentialy learn about how to trout fish and the rest can and would be hands on learning.Seems pretty easy to me.


Why don't we stop acting like 1) the Clinton is a blue ribbon trout stream, 2) like it is a secret that there are steelhead there from LSC to the dam and the best areas are from Sterling Heights to Yates 3) and that you need some special mojo to give info about it. 
I have been fishing there for 23 years and have never had an issue finding a spot or with others going there. It is in a busy area where 10 of thousands of cars pass by and see the fisherman. Who care is someone comes on and asks a little info about it.
Get a G.D. life and if you don't like people around go hit the Fotte Dam then come back and complain.


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## stinger63 (Nov 25, 2003)

slammer said:


> Why don't we stop acting like 1) the Clinton is a blue ribbon trout stream, 2) like it is a secret that there are steelhead there from LSC to the dam and the best areas are from Sterling Heights to Yates 3) and that you need some special mojo to give info about it.
> I have been fishing there for 23 years and have never had an issue finding a spot or with others going there. It is in a busy area where 10 of thousands of cars pass by and see the fisherman. Who care is someone comes on and asks a little info about it.
> Get a G.D. life and if you don't like people around go hit the Fotte Dam then come back and complain.


Hey dont slam me Im just trying to help out the site by coming up with an idea to do so.



> if you don't like people around go hit the Fotte Dam then come back and complain


Or better yet Tippy I talked to guy who fished there and said you have to get there at 2-3am just to get spots to fish.


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## steelheadpursuit (Feb 16, 2008)

if anyone has any questions about the clinton send me an email im not afraid to let/help people when it comes to fishing, ive fished the clinton for several years and i know what that river holds, there are plenty of fish to go around and personally im a catch pic release person, but if you want some info send me an email and i be more than happy to assist you, and about the over crowding you guys havent seen nothing come to alaska for some fishing and youll see overcrowding, ive seen people get into fist fights, and also seen spots where you couldnt fit a rod between to guys.


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