# New License fees



## FieldWalker (Oct 21, 2003)

Gas goes up...

License went up...

Ammo went up...

The swing of gas prices can cost people more money than the license. The prices have went up... plant accordingly. Or trade in those nice SxS guns and start slinging some pumps out there.


----------



## hehibrits (Mar 10, 2007)

BIGSP said:


> Have you been out west lately? Drought, grazing, emergency haying have destroyed tons if acres if what used to be good hunting ground. That doesn't even count the lands that have been pulled from CRP and cattail sloughs that have been burned, tiled and panted with corn. Not saying out west won't be viable but I usually drive around 200 miles a day out west I can spend a while week in the UP without driving that much.


I was only in four western states hunting this year, so I might not be up to speed. Montana had too much moisture, not a lack of it. In the Dakota's, drought, grazing, and emergency haying are short term and sometime beneficial events. We will get a few wet seasons when the weather pendulum swings back. It doesn't take long for grass to green up and grow. Speaking of pendulums, corn futures for 2014 closed at $2.76 and with seed corn at over $200/bag and fuel and fertilizer what it is, a majority of the sloughs and draws greedily farmed for $7+ corn will revert back into what previous generations knew was "red ground" because the yield is pathetic IF you don't get washed out before germination. With the dump on ethanol now and mandated to blend 3 billion less gallons in 2014, congress capping the total amount of CRP at 32 million acres and eyeing a 25 million acre cap, people will be much more interested in signing up since there is about 27 million acres enrolled as of now.


----------



## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

hehibrits said:


> ........ corn futures for 2014 closed at $2.76........
> 
> 
> > Typo ?
> ...


----------



## hehibrits (Mar 10, 2007)

Liver and Onions said:


> hehibrits said:
> 
> 
> > ........ corn futures for 2014 closed at $2.76........
> ...


----------



## Bobby (Dec 21, 2002)

Jakezilla said:


> Just found out my out of state small game license is going up from $67 to $151. Are they trying to cripple the tourism industry? I know more than a few hunters that used to come to Michigan to hunt that won't be once they see the new cost of a non-resident license.


This appears to be a big jump (it is,) that's how government agencies work, they won't look forward and do things correctly (politics is another thread.) No price increase since 1997, 17 years. The math; an out of state small game license is $69 today, $151 next year. That's a yearly average increase of 4.7%. That's more than inflation has been but it's not that huge a jump. From the rest of the responses it's more or less in line with other states for the same type of hunting. 




Steelheadfred said:


> Let's step back and take a realistic view here.
> 
> License Fees have been undervalued for a long long time, I think the last hike was a dollar in 98 but don't quote me on that.
> 
> ...


As Fritz states (I couldn't agree more) the license cost is not a huge % factor in the overall cost of any trip and is a great value compared to other recreational opportunities.



Double Gun said:


> This is true if you small game hunt. If you just deer hunt you still have to buy the $10 hunting license.
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


If you only deer hunt then the average annual increase would have been 2.4%
If you deer hunt and small game hunt the average annual increase is 1.7%
The DNR needs to be funded and the fairest way to fund are user fees. This statement will open a large can of worms and I do agree that more users need to be added to the mix. But I won't try to steal this thread.


----------



## Double Gun (Feb 22, 2005)

Bobby said:


> This appears to be a big jump (it is,) that's how government agencies work, they won't look forward and do things correctly (politics is another thread.) No price increase since 1997, 17 years. The math; an out of state small game license is $69 today, $151 next year. That's a yearly average increase of 4.7%. That's more than inflation has been but it's not that huge a jump. From the rest of the responses it's more or less in line with other states for the same type of hunting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm in favor of the license increase, but a license that goes from $15 to $30 doesn't equal 2.4%.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Jager Pro (Nov 8, 2013)

Double Gun said:


> I'm in favor of the license increase, but a license that goes from $15 to $30 doesn't equal 2.4%.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Which license is increasing from 15 to 30?


----------



## Bobby (Dec 21, 2002)

Double Gun said:


> I'm in favor of the license increase, but a license that goes from $15 to $30 doesn't equal 2.4%.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Amortized over 17 years (since the last increase) it equals 2.4% per year. That's what I stated in the original post. That's the math.


----------



## Hevi (May 18, 2004)

Double Gun said:


> I'm in favor of the license increase, but a license that goes from $15 to $30 doesn't equal 2.4%.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Jager Pro (Nov 8, 2013)

Hevi said:


>


If someone knocks on the door while I'm in the bathroom I just simply say "hypotenuse"  :lol:


----------



## Double Gun (Feb 22, 2005)

Bobby said:


> Amortized over 17 years (since the last increase) it equals 2.4% per year. That's what I stated in the original post. That's the math.


Sorry I missed this part.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Hackman (Aug 13, 2008)

What's extra CO's going to do nab a few teenagers whacking an illegal deer when predators are dining on deer and urban sprawl decreases game. Top officials that hired in years ago will probally have a retirement in excesses of 50,000.00 a year say for the next 20 to 30 years they live after retirement. All there doing is making sure their pensions are secure and fully funded. Wake up Liver.


----------



## MandJ (Oct 10, 2012)

Licenses have really been low for a long time. I have no issue paying  more. Hunting license money should be allocated to hunting items. Habitat improvement, co's, etc. Fishing same way. Money is and will be an issue with all of our pursuits. The other users should be paying in also, too much money gets allocated to activities that don't pay in. Anyway I think we probably should have a fairly large resident license hike. How its being used should be looked at. Seems we lag behind in regulation/management and that shouldn't be. 

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## Hackman (Aug 13, 2008)

I have an issue with increases and every citizen should too. When yearly income is going down and tax bases decreasing in Michigan why are so many people blind. Alot of people work hard or harder than state employees that basically give themselves wages increases. If the economy goes bad then everybody suffer. Look at California some cities are bankrupt because they can't pay the pension of there retired workers. Well Michigan DNR is no different, Fat Cats living high on the hog while blind fools say " I'll pay extra money". you guys are blind.


----------



## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

License fee increases do nothing to increase the pay of state employees. What it will do is allow critical positions that have been empty for long periods of time to be filled, including in fisheries and wildlife division. Might even allow equipment that in some places has become a maintenance nightmare to be replaced. Everyone will pay the increases, even state employees.


----------



## Jager Pro (Nov 8, 2013)

Hackman said:


> I have an issue with increases and every citizen should too. When yearly income is going down and tax bases decreasing in Michigan why are so many people blind. Alot of people work hard or harder than state employees that basically give themselves wages increases. If the economy goes bad then everybody suffer. Look at California some cities are bankrupt because they can't pay the pension of there retired workers. Well Michigan DNR is no different, Fat Cats living high on the hog while blind fools say " I'll pay extra money". you guys are blind.


 what? Do you even know what the increases are for? We're not stuffing the pockets of the DNR, we're getting a lot more COs


----------



## Hackman (Aug 13, 2008)

Dead Short you might be newer employee which funds his own retirement as you probally know with the State matching a percentage of what you put in 401k. Older civil servants have a fully funded pension plus a seperate option 401 k. Plus years ago civil servants would get unpaid sick leave paid to them when they retire. Any fees taken into the system in a round about way helps the entire fund. You are probally a very hard worker but unfortunately contracts were negotiated that can't be backed up now. My so called whining is backed up by many National news head lines plus look at Detroit.


----------



## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Heck, even if I can get some newer electronics on a 22 year old Great Lakes patrol boat that aren't as old as the hull, I'll be happy.


----------



## Hackman (Aug 13, 2008)

I'll stop my whining and admit I am jeolous of some of the "toys" equipment DNR gets to use. Years ago me and a buddy would go back in a swamp area and beat the hell out of our outboard engine getting back there. Always thinking no one would go back where we were. All of a sudden we hear a hi pitch whine and before you know it a CO is in front of us with a Brand new Jet drive boat. This was before Mud Motors became big. I was shocked he came so fast plus thru that area. After that I knew money meant nothing to the DNR.


----------



## i missed again (Sep 7, 2008)

Hackman said:


> Dead Short you might be newer employee which funds his own retirement as you probally know with the State matching a percentage of what you put in 401k. Older civil servants have a fully funded pension plus a seperate option 401 k. Plus years ago civil servants would get unpaid sick leave paid to them when they retire. Any fees taken into the system in a round about way helps the entire fund. You are probally a very hard worker but unfortunately contracts were negotiated that can't be backed up now. My so called whining is backed up by many National news head lines plus look at Detroit.


So what your saying in one post is they give themselves pay raises and in the next they are lossing sick days and some 401 suport, soud like they are lossing like the rest of us


----------



## Hevi (May 18, 2004)

Hackman said:


> I have an issue with increases and every citizen should too. When yearly income is going down and tax bases decreasing in Michigan why are so many people blind. Alot of people work hard or harder than state employees that basically give themselves wages increases. If the economy goes bad then everybody suffer. Look at California some cities are bankrupt because they can't pay the pension of there retired workers. Well Michigan DNR is no different, Fat Cats living high on the hog while blind fools say " I'll pay extra money". you guys are blind.


Clearly, you don't pay much attention to current events.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

i missed again said:


> So what your saying in one post is they give themselves pay raises and in the next they are lossing sick days and some 401 suport, soud like they are lossing like the rest of us


I'm still trying to figure out how I suffered a net income loss of 5 grand this year.....

No one does it for the money.......


----------



## Blueboy05 (Dec 27, 2013)

If you see the driver in front of you drive off a cliff, are you going to follow? That's what arguing under the premise that other state's are such and such dollars. I'm ok with paying a couple extra bucks for a hunting and fishing license, but lets not put a match to a can of gas. Things need to be weighed against what exists here, and now, not what some other state with different goals and attributes has. That the same argument being made to raise the price of putting a license plate on your vehicle..."well Illinois is $205..." Yes, but Illinois is run by crooks (I've lived there) and we won't see any improvement in our roads for all the money the state is going to collect. Back to woods and water of Michigan, will it cause a drop tourism? Possible, and it may offset the whole math thing. I personally think we should make "Out of State" licenses very affordable and attractive to out of state patrons. Will we see a big improvement in the outdoor adventures in Michigan with license fee increases? I doubt it. Most likely be spent on bureaucracy.


----------



## azsixshooter (Nov 15, 2009)

Well, I won't say whether I think it's fair or not fair but I'm in a bad situation where I have a little daughter and I'm also taking care of 2 other guys (losers) kids. Money is tighter than frog ***** and that's water-tight. 

Hunting in Michigan has officially become too rich for my blood. I love to hunt, but until I can find a way to make more money I will not be buying any more hunting or fishing licenses here. I guess guys like me are the ones they must be wanting to price out. I'll be storing my guns and rods and packing away all my hunting gear. I'll put the money I normally spend on hunting towards hot dogs or something. Hopefully Kroger will be having a sale on them soon. Maybe in the next 5 years I'll find the time to finish my degree while working 6 days a week and make enough money to be able to afford the luxury of hunting and fishing in my home state. 

In the end, I just hope the DNR is doing the right thing for Michigan and our natural resources, regardless of how it might affect my family in the immediate term.


----------



## Jager Pro (Nov 8, 2013)

Blueboy05 said:


> If you see the driver in front of you drive off a cliff, are you going to follow? That's what arguing under the premise that other state's are such and such dollars. I'm ok with paying a couple extra bucks for a hunting and fishing license, but lets not put a match to a can of gas. Things need to be weighed against what exists here, and now, not what some other state with different goals and attributes has. That the same argument being made to raise the price of putting a license plate on your vehicle..."well Illinois is $205..." Yes, but Illinois is run by crooks (I've lived there) and we won't see any improvement in our roads for all the money the state is going to collect. Back to woods and water of Michigan, will it cause a drop tourism? Possible, and it may offset the whole math thing. I personally think we should make "Out of State" licenses very affordable and attractive to out of state patrons. Will we see a big improvement in the outdoor adventures in Michigan with license fee increases? I doubt it. Most likely be spent on bureaucracy.


Are we driving off of a cliff if we are bettering our hunting?


----------



## Hexagenia (Feb 5, 2012)

My biggest problem with the increases of non res. fees is I own property and pay taxes ( I believe equal to res. taxes) and yet am charged the higher non res. rates. This must be NEW MATH. LOL
Hex


----------



## KCRuger (Oct 18, 2010)

I don't mind the increase too much as it for the most part come out in awash for me. I try and spend more time going after small game. With the newdeer management rules that they want to impose combined with the price increaseI will end up not spending as much. I usually kill 1 deer a year. Generally Ipass small bucks looking to fill my restricted tag first. Save my non restrictedtag for later. I hunt zone 3 and I dont see a lot of bucks that would fill tworestricted tags so I will end up just buying 1 buck tag and a doe. That willsave me $10 in based on what I usually spend. Doing both of these things hasthem loose money on me though I do see that they will make more in the longrun. I think they could have done it better and still made money. They couldhave left the prices the way they are but change the small game tag to ahunting license. I know lots of guys who only hunt deer and now they will beforced to spend the extra $10. It would have increased the cash flow but wouldnot be so much that it would be debated this much.


----------



## kdogger (Jan 10, 2005)

Is the required base tag gonna clog up the grouse woods with yahoo's now? Or will they just sit home until nov 15 regardless?


----------



## Unregistered4 (Dec 11, 2004)

To me, I could see the out of state hunters becoming somewhat cyclical like the grouse numbers.

Good hatch, peak of the cycle...you'll probably see out of state hunters.

Poor hatch, bottom of the cycle...you'll probably see less then before, during these types of occurrences.

Regardless, it's a done deal and only time will tell from here on out.


----------



## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

Unregistered4 said:


> To me, I could see the out of state hunters becoming somewhat cyclical like the grouse numbers.
> 
> Good hatch, peak of the cycle...you'll probably see out of state hunters.
> 
> ...


That's already the case I think.


----------



## k9wernet (Oct 15, 2007)

kdogger said:


> Is the required base tag gonna clog up the grouse woods with yahoo's now? Or will they just sit home until nov 15 regardless?


My guess is that you MAY see more people hunting pheasants, rabbits and squirrels, but I don't anticipate a huge spike in grouse hunters, especially considering where we're at in the cycle.

Grouse hunters are a bunch of yahoos to begin with... it takes a certain love of pain and disappointment to really get hooked, IMO


----------



## Unregistered4 (Dec 11, 2004)

BIGSP said:


> That's already the case I think.


Yes, it's happening now and I understand that...but in my statement ("you'll probably see less than before")...meaning, it might become more pronounced in relationship to the cycle. Maybe, I really didn't make it clear enough before, all good though. Pay sixty something to hunt less birds, or pay a hundred and a half to hunt less birds...it may add into someone's equation.

Although, I would have thought a doctor would figure this out easily...lol

Me, if I was driving to Kansas and the rate had double...I'd definitely do my research on bird populations/hatch out there, even more thoroughly, before pulling the trigger.


----------



## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

My friend from Indiana has expressed concern. He's already decided to not persue turkey I'm Michigan and will instead head for multiple bird states and/or different species.
As for upland birds, I won't allow the license increase to keep him away. I'll pay the difference to keep our tradition going, it's well worth it to me.

Sent from my SPH-M820-BST using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## UplandJunkie (Feb 4, 2013)

I think its great. If I go to South Dakota I pay $110 for a 10 day license for pheasants. I live in the heart of grouse country and see many out of state hunters come up. Some will be here for weeks while camping the entire time on state land. The few local bars may get a meal or two out of them and a few tanks of gas at the station in town. Many of the hunters that come up whether it be for birds or deer are doing the same thing and that is not putting any money into the local economy. 

At least this way the state will get a little more money and hopefully the DNR will be able to help continue to fund projects like the UP Grouse Trail that our RGS chapter is currently working with the local DNR branch on. Talking to our biologist it was very unlikely they would have gotten any funding to throw our way had these increases not went through. 




Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Jager Pro (Nov 8, 2013)

azsixshooter said:


> Well, I won't say whether I think it's fair or not fair but I'm in a bad situation where I have a little daughter and I'm also taking care of 2 other guys (losers) kids. Money is tighter than frog ***** and that's water-tight.
> 
> Hunting in Michigan has officially become too rich for my blood. I love to hunt, but until I can find a way to make more money I will not be buying any more hunting or fishing licenses here. I guess guys like me are the ones they must be wanting to price out. I'll be storing my guns and rods and packing away all my hunting gear. I'll put the money I normally spend on hunting towards hot dogs or something. Hopefully Kroger will be having a sale on them soon. Maybe in the next 5 years I'll find the time to finish my degree while working 6 days a week and make enough money to be able to afford the luxury of hunting and fishing in my home state.
> 
> In the end, I just hope the DNR is doing the right thing for Michigan and our natural resources, regardless of how it might affect my family in the immediate term.


So what part of the changes do you find so crucial?


----------



## Unregistered4 (Dec 11, 2004)

UplandJunkie said:


> At least this way the state will get a little more money and hopefully the DNR will be able to help continue to fund projects like the UP Grouse Trail that our RGS chapter is currently working with the local DNR branch on.


I would like to hear about your chapter's project, maybe you could start another topic if possible. That's one thing I do miss about not being actively involved with our chapter anymore, is habitat projects.


----------



## dauber (Jan 11, 2010)

Unregistered4 said:


> I would like to hear about your chapter's project, maybe you could start another topic if possible. That's one thing I do miss about not being actively involved with our chapter anymore, is habitat projects.


You can read about the GEMS in the new RGS magazine. They would not have gotten off the ground without the new lisc package. I can only speak for the Mid-UP and EUP chapters, but the local biologist have been keeping us in the loop and working very well in planing projects. UpJunk has all the details, but in short we are planning on doing some coordinated platings of fruits and shrubs this spring.


----------



## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

dauber said:


> You can read about the GEMS in the new RGS magazine.


Nice article, glad to see that in the works.


----------



## dallasdog (Nov 17, 2009)

Unregistered4 said:


> I would like to hear about your chapter's project, maybe you could start another topic if possible. That's one thing I do miss about not being actively involved with our chapter anymore, is habitat projects.


email me I know a lot about this


----------

