# Expand the C&R Bass Season?



## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

What good reason is there to have a completely closed bass season from Jan 1 until the last Saturday in April - when the C&R season begins? 

What would be bad about folks _targeting_ bass thru the ice, after ice-out, or during ice-free winters? 
They're still weeks/months from spawning, especially in the Great Lakes.

I was very happy to see the C&R seasons implemented, but it was too long in the making. 

I know some from watching bass on the cam when ice fishing (for pike:evilsmile) that they're fairly uninterested with dining. They swim along like any other time of year, but are mostly unaffected by any presentation. 

Seems it's the bass' least vulnerable time of year, _unlike pike_, yet the bass is "protected"


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## waterfoul (May 18, 2005)

Well, you said you were gonna do this....


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## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

Maybe we shouldn't have any seasons on any type of fish. We should be allowed to target anything we choose 365 days a year! Who the heck is the state to tell us when and what we can fish for?

John


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## OTIS (Feb 15, 2001)

Speaking of Cams. Cabelas had these underwater cams on sale for $99 a few weeks ago. I think they were $200 normally. I shoud have bought one.


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## thedude (Jul 20, 2004)

jpollman said:


> Maybe we shouldn't have any seasons on any type of fish. We should be allowed to target anything we choose 365 days a year! Who the heck is the state to tell us when and what we can fish for?
> 
> John


First of all... most states don't have season at all on bass and they are doing just fine population-wise. 

Secondly, all he's asking for is C&R instead of a closed season - not a catch and keep season. In most of the state, bass are on beds at some point when the C&R season is open... so there really isn't any added protection to them from a closed season vs. a C&R season.

I'm fine with seasons to protect fish when they are vulnerable during the spawn, however it is accepted science that catching and immediately releasing bass on beds has little to no adverse effects on the fishery.

Just because the state has set guidelines doesn't mean we can't ask for them to be reviewed. We asked for a C&R season and it was just 2 years ago we got it. It used to be illegal to use a drop-shot, but we asked, it was reviewed and now we can..... i don't think that in this case asking to replace the full "closed season" with C&R is unreasonable in the least.


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## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

I'm not going to get back into this again. I've stated my opinion many times in previous threads concerning this issue. I was fine with having the season the way it was before it was changed to the current C&R season. The way I see it is that it just gives you something to look forward to. You've just got to learn PATIENCE! 

John


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## waterfoul (May 18, 2005)

Screw patience... as SOON as the ice melts my boat will be in the water!! I will however heed the law and target only for those fish which we are allowed go after. Spring rockbass fight like crazy!!


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## thedude (Jul 20, 2004)

jpollman said:


> I'm not going to get back into this again. I've stated my opinion many times in previous threads concerning this issue.
> 
> John


no point in you posting to this thread at all then i guess.


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

jpollman said:


> I'm not going to get back into this again. I've stated my opinion many times in previous threads concerning this issue. I was fine with having the season the way it was before it was changed to the current C&R season. The way I see it is that it just gives you something to look forward to. You've just got to learn PATIENCE!
> 
> John


I actually thought you were sincere in your first post. It made sense!

It's probably "fine" with you just because you don't _want_ to be out fishing that time of year (burr!). But not everyone feels the same as you. 

Like Dude said, the science of the matter is quite clear. 

Having laws solely for the purpose of having laws is rediculous, and scary.:yikes:

And don't tell _us_ what virtues _we_ need to learn:rant::lol:


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

waterfoul said:


> Well, you said you were gonna do this....


:lol::lol::lol:

...and I also said someone would chime in to argue the opposite while providing no solid reasoning to support the regulation:evil:


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## thedude (Jul 20, 2004)

what "because the state said so" isn't good enough rationale for you?:lol::lol::lol:


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## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

thedude said:


> no point in you posting to this thread at all then i guess.


Well I haven't posted anything in probably a couple of years on this subject. When I saw this thread I just couldn't stand it anymore. It drives me nuts because there's nothing wrong with the state imposing seasons on certain species of fish. Not long ago a lot of you were whining about not being able to C&R in the early season. The state gave in and at least set an early C&R season. Now that's not enough and you want to be able to C&R ALL YEAR LONG. When will it be enough?

John


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## waterfoul (May 18, 2005)

It will be enough when the Nympho says it's enough!!! And that's that!!


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## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

jpollman said:


> Well I haven't posted anything in probably a couple of years on this subject. When I saw this thread I just couldn't stand it anymore. It drives me nuts because there's nothing wrong with the state imposing seasons on certain species of fish. Not long ago a lot of you were whining about not being able to C&R in the early season. The state gave in and at least set an early C&R season. Now that's not enough and you want to be able to C&R ALL YEAR LONG. When will it be enough?
> 
> John


I don't see the big deal either - heck John , I live in Newaygo CTY. and Deer Season is open 24/7/365!!!
:evilsmile

Whooops!! s#!zN!T!!!!!!

Wrong forum!!!!! QDM....bassssss!!
0' boy.............................................


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## thedude (Jul 20, 2004)

whining? how is it whining? Deer hunters whine... all we want is a to be able to fish in april... maybe even march!

Last time i checked.. letting my elected officials know what i want is kinda the premise on which this country was founded... they work for me... and that means the DNR too. Especially the DNR since i buy a fishing and hunting license every year. I and every other citizen of this state is entitled to ask the DNR for whatever they want....

I'm curious as to why you take such opposition to an issue that is virtually all PRO and no CON? You're only beef seems to be that the DNR might have to do some work? I mean is there some fundamental issue here i'm missing? 

Maybe theres some jealousy residue because us bass fisherman "always get what we want" and the deer hunters get screwed or something?:gaga:


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## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

Jealousy?

Not from me. I'm a Bass fisherman and haven't hunted deer in almost twenty years. I've got no problem at all giving the Bass a few months off to do their thing without being harassed. But apparently some people just want to be able to fish them all the time and not give them a break. I'd rather give them some time off from being targeted so that the resource will have a better chance at being there in the future.

John


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

Personally, I think they should be open for fishing from the end of June to the second week of May, Closed for about 6 weeks while they do the nasty.


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## waterfoul (May 18, 2005)

John... look at all the states surrounding Michigan.... many of them have no season on bass and their populations are just fine. Take a look at the lakes they did the C&R studies on... no adverse affects. Also, do you think the average fisherman will be out there in March/April targeting bass? Probably not... they don't like the cold!!! I could see the DNR posting a NO HARVEST period from say Dec. 1 till May 1 or something... but I do not think (and there's data to back it up) that fishing for bass in the spring would affect the population one way or another.


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## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

ESOX said:


> Personally, I think they should be open for fishing from the end of June to the second week of May, Closed for about 6 weeks while they do the nasty.












:yikes:


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## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

Well it looks like I'm definitely in the minority here. I guess that when it comes to this subject, I'll just shut my mouth and crawl back into my hole for a couple more years. :lol:

Maybe a setup that permits C&R during the normally closed season wouldn't HURT the population. But I can see where having a closed season forbidding even targeting Bass could do nothing but HELP it. 

I guess I just like having a big "opening day" to look forward to every year.

John


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## waterfoul (May 18, 2005)

Oh, trust me John... I'm looking forward to April 19 MORE than most people I'm sure!!! In fact I'd put money on it!!! $$$$$$$$$$$

But I guess if you took away that opening day DATE to look forward to, we'd simply replace it with "Ice Out Day."


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## waterfoul (May 18, 2005)

Oh, and why oh why would you give a hoot one way or the other oh guru of the CraZy TypInG???? At that time of the year you have nothing on your mind but eyes... and eyes... and more eyes!!!!


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## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

waterfoul said:


> Oh, and why oh why would you give a hoot one way or the other oh guru of the CraZy TypInG???? At that time of the year you have nothing on your mind but eyes... and eyes... and more eyes!!!!


You got me all fiGGereD out , doncHa Mikey??
( I love bein' pSYcH0-aNalYzeD - LMAO)
:evilsmile
How do you know I don't have _some_ of my eyez on sum-0'- _your_ money???
:lol: 
I was just agreeing with Paul , walleys only get a 6 week 'rest' and they are closed (in most places) for the spawn , the rest or the time it's full steam ahead & damn the torpedoes!!!
:fish2:
frEEkiN' deer just are tryin' to do their thing and all the pSYcH0 pUnK!N'-HeDzz are trying to blow their jewels off!!
wasupwitdat????
:yikes:
If memory serves , last SAT. in April 2007 I was pitchin' baits to sLiMeRz in your tin *****.
:cheeky-sm


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## thedude (Jul 20, 2004)

I kinda figured December through March was enough of a rest for them:sad:

I do like Esox' idea though...


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## waterfoul (May 18, 2005)

Hey, if the eyes were bitin that day we woulda been tossin baits ta eyes... but as ya know... no body wasa catchin da eyes!!


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## JJ Mac (Dec 29, 2003)

Wow, there's lot's of opinions and different scenarios that have been beaten to death on this issue. After considering all of them, I think the present laws we have now is the best compromise.

As far as bass go in icefishing,......c'mon......it's basically C&R anyway isn't it? I catch lots of smallies through the ice, and they are just a blast...better fight than most walters. But I don't target them, they're all incidental catches. I don't know how a CO could claim you were targeting bass while icefishing, unless you had a Gary Yamamoto impregnated with garlic down on a tip up. :lol:


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

I don't know about ice fishing, but I have found holes chock FULL of smallies when trying to find steelhead. I usually gave up and moved on after 6 bronze fish or so.......


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## waterfoul (May 18, 2005)

Hey Nympho.... it worked just like you said it would.... LOL!!!


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

The point I want to make is this: Why do people who don't mind a particular ordinance, one way or another, seek to prevent those who believe differently from achievig their goals even if it changes nothing for them. 

BASS GET PLENTY OF A BREAK, SEASON OR NOT, TARGETED OR NOT, FROM DEC - APRIL!!!!!!!!!!!!

If any fish season is to close at all it should be to protect the spawn, which would be scientific and solid reasoning to support the reg. But just so they can "rest"????????? , :idea:, , , C'mon, really!:lol: LMAO!!!

Just b/c it's "C&R anyway, isn't it?", that doesn't cut it. The regs have to be more clear than that in order to be effectively & uniformly enforced.

LAWS THAT DON'T MAKE SENSE DON'T MAKE SENSE

...like a wise man once said..."if it don't make dollaz, it don't make cent$!":chillin:

DON'T _FEAR_ FREEDOM, IT TASTES LIKE CHICKEN!!!:chicken:


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

JJ Mac said:


> ...*unless you had a Gary Yamamoto impregnated with garlic down on a tip up*. :lol:


 
LMAO!!! :lol::lol::lol:


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## DeanV (Jan 9, 2001)

The science of the issue is not completely settled, at leas the last time I looked at the scientific journals. Look up research by Dr. Mark Ridgway, he is the guru of all things smallmouth bass. You will need to find the articles at a college library in the research journals and some of his stuff is hit on in In-fisherman. Smallmouth reproduction can be harmed by C&R fishing, not only during the spawn but before the spawn as well.

states to the south are much more fertile and there are a lot more fry the are produced in those lakes/


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## Ninja (Feb 20, 2005)

waterfoul said:


> Oh, trust me John... I'm looking forward to* April 19* MORE than most people I'm sure!!! In fact I'd put money on it!!! $$$$$$$$$$$


Better wait one more week!!!


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## waterfoul (May 18, 2005)

Oh come on... you gonna tell on me??

(and I can't believe no one else caught that!)


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

DeanV said:


> The science of the issue is not completely settled, at leas the last time I looked at the scientific journals. Look up research by Dr. Mark Ridgway, he is the guru of all things smallmouth bass. You will need to find the articles at a college library in the research journals and some of his stuff is hit on in *In-fisherman*. Smallmouth reproduction can be harmed by C&R fishing, not only during the spawn but before the spawn as well.
> 
> states to the south are much more fertile and there are a lot more fry the are produced in those lakes/


I am familiar with his research and data via _InFish_. But by itself it changes nothing here in MI, b/c our bass' spawning time is not protected by our closed seasons, and that's especially true for the michigan smallie. Many spawning smallies here in MI do so during our regualar open season.

*My point is this: our closed seasons (as they are) on bass serve NO PURPOSE except to "give them a break", which is NOT a good enough reason to restrict freedom. *

Most other states, even at our lattitude, do not have closed seasons (other than to explicity protect the spawn) on bass and it works out just fine for them. 

*Why do we here in MI have to be more restricted, for no good measure?*

*Why do so many folks here in MI never even bother to question why things are the way they are? And even get offended at the thought of someone else doing so?*

"OH NO!!, don't disturb the status quo!!:tdo12:"

One has the right (and should be encouraged) to think for himself, and question why MDNR does this or that. 

Fact of the matter is, the regulations is there from years ago, before science gave clear_er_ answers. These regs are based on the _speculation_ of fisheries "_scientists" _from eons ago, rather than objective science. They knew little compared to what fisheries managers should know these days. 

Time for a review.


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## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

waterfoul said:


> Oh come on... you gonna tell on me??
> 
> (and I can't believe no one else caught that!)


I did , but have long accepted the fact you're a lil bit h!cKeRb!LLY and got MCRS like a sunnuva.......
:lol:


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## waterfoul (May 18, 2005)

Oh yeah... and my MCRS has gotten nothing but worse since I met you!!!


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## Texas_Justice85 (Feb 20, 2008)

I love it down here, fishin season all year long!


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## DeanV (Jan 9, 2001)

When I did research in northern michigan on spawning largemouth bass, early may into mid june is when the bass where on the beds on the small lake we studied. Smallmouth, if I recall correctly, tend to spawn a little earlier than largemouths. There is also Ridgeway information that indicates that even C&R fishing can harm the year class.

I fish a lake that used to give up a lot of master angler class bluegills in the 90's. Every year a couple guys would be there fishing for them pre-spawn and during the spawn. They pulled out buckets of bluegill every year from the 600 acre lake. The population of trophy gills as still not recovered. 

My concern is not really what the law says, it may be to liberal at times. My concern is the resource. Wise, conservation-minded, sustainable use. I would just hate to see our bass resources compromised because angling during the spawn is so heavy that the nest sites are not defended adequately . Only a very few nests contribute signifcantly to the year class. If the guardian males of the few sucessful nests are disturbed, it can seriously damage the the year class.


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## waterfoul (May 18, 2005)

We're not talking bluegills though Dean.


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## thedude (Jul 20, 2004)

i gotta agree with brandon on this - our seasons don't protect the spawn.. pretty much everything north of muskegon is either on beds or prespawn come the regular season opener... some small inland lakes on average may be done as they warm up fast.. but any of the west-side drowned river mouths with access to lake michigan and arguably the states best trophy smallmouth waters of traverse bays and surrounding inland lakes see spawning large and smallmouth well into july.... 

Now look at the waters that get the most pressure and you'll see that its these waters... any bass tournament on the west side on memorial day through mid-june will have a large number of boats that run up as far as GT bay, pentwater, arcadia -- all to catch big smallies on beds. Those fish are brought back to the grand river, Musk. Lake, etc. If you want to protect the fish.. then make the season closed when they are on the beds.... or make it illegal to transport fish from lake to lake (even if connected to Lake Mich).

we caught pre-spawn largemouth in Whitehall mid-june last year... even on kent lake i've caught smallies on beds in late may... well before the LM moved up. NBAA has a tournie on hardy dam every opening weekend just to fish bedding fish....

obviously you can't protect all areas without pretty granular zone definitions, but having the same closed season in Grayling and St. Joe doesn't make much sense if you use the spawning argument.


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## walleyemania (Feb 23, 2008)

Lets get down to the cold hard truth here.

The real issue is that the Walleye fishermen do not want to share the lakes, rivers, and launches with Bass fishermen. Walleye is open year around on some waters and closed on others. Walleye fishermen always have fish they can target and while were out targeting those fish we don't want to see bass boats around do we?

Come on in the spring were forced to fish the great lakes and connecting waters ... there no more room for bass fishermen.


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## jim sasser (Feb 19, 2007)

That was the most useless rant i'v heard on here in a while....WALLEYEMANIA:banghead3...what the hell does sharing a ramp with bass fisherman got to do with c&r fishing laws?


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

thedude said:


> our seasons don't protect the spawn.. ... If you want to protect the fish.. then make the season closed when they are on the beds.... or make it illegal to transport fish from lake to lake (even if connected to Lake Mich)


If the closed season DOES NOT protect the spawn, WHAT GOOD IS IT FOR

Will someone who disagrees w/ expanding the season please respond to *this* point!!



walleyemania said:


> Lets get down to the cold hard truth here.
> 
> The real issue is that the Walleye fishermen do not want to share the lakes, rivers, and launches with Bass fishermen. Walleye is open year around on some waters and closed on others. Walleye fishermen always have fish they can target and while were out targeting those fish we don't want to see bass boats around do we?
> 
> Come on in the spring were forced to fish the great lakes and connecting waters ... there no more room for bass fishermen.


:lol::lol::lol: WHAT??? Walleye Guys VS Bass Guys??? :irked:


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## walleyemania (Feb 23, 2008)

jim sasser said:


> That was the most useless rant i'v heard on here in a while....WALLEYEMANIA:banghead3...what the hell does sharing a ramp with bass fisherman got to do with c&r fishing laws?


 
Jim I would like to know that answer myself. I love to fish for everything and I do not care if I am fishing for bass, pike, walleye, trout or whatever. 

I think bass fishermen get the short end of the stick. They have the shortest season and they are the most disliked of all fishermen. I have heard countless walleye buddies complain about having to share THEIR fishing waters with Bass fishermen. All of those same buddies think that if the bass season is longer than the lakes will be crowded with bass fishermen during THEIR time to fish. This is silly nonsense to me. Why does any one species have a longer season then the other? 

I've asked several MDNR officer and biologist why does trout, walleye, and perch have a longer season then bass? I imediately lost respect for anyone who claimed it is to protect the fish. Walleye trout and perch are stocked regularly but bass are never stocked. Why are we protecting Bass and not the fish that we have to stock?

What other reason can you give me as to why the season for bass needs to be shorter then Walleye, pike, trout or any other species?

I am sorry that you feel this is a useless belief on my part but my experiance has shown that the main reason why Bass fishing season is the shortest season is to keep those bass boats off the water.


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## jim sasser (Feb 19, 2007)

Thank u for clearing that up,from your first post i got the feeling u where taking the side of a pompuse walleye angler.but now i see u were being sarcastic and actully on the side of extending the already to short c&r bass season.im in the same boat[no pun intended]i fish for every thing that swims,scales and skin and no angler has more right than the next on the water,no matter the fish they chase....welcome to m.s.


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## thedude (Jul 20, 2004)

walleyemania said:


> Jim I would like to know that answer myself. I love to fish for everything and I do not care if I am fishing for bass, pike, walleye, trout or whatever.
> 
> I think bass fishermen get the short end of the stick. They have the shortest season and they are the most disliked of all fishermen. I have heard countless walleye buddies complain about having to share THEIR fishing waters with Bass fishermen. All of those same buddies think that if the bass season is longer than the lakes will be crowded with bass fishermen during THEIR time to fish. This is silly nonsense to me. Why does any one species have a longer season then the other?
> 
> ...


just for the record - i did read your first post as tongue-in-cheek -

and to add to your point.. most of the fish mentioned are primarily catch and eat fish - not many people C&R walleye or salmon.. but the majority of bass fisherman perform C&R - granted, sometimes its at the boat ramp after weighin, but C&R nonetheless.


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## walleyemania (Feb 23, 2008)

Only two sport fish in Michigan are self sustaining. Bass & Pike.

With Pike the DNR are doing things to decrease thier numbers like lifting size limits, allowing for spearing, even netting pike fry on some lakes.

With Bass they continue to protect them claiming the bass are fragile and need protection.

The strange thing to me is Walleye and trout are more fragile than bass. Walleye and trout need constant stocking to maintain levels but at the same time Walleye and trout have longer seasoons then bas do.

I just wish one person from the MDNR could honestly answer why this is? 

I would settle for one poster who is against a longer Bass season.

Someone please enlighten me.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

> Walleye and trout need constant stocking to maintain levels but at the same time Walleye and trout have longer seasoons then bas do.


Maybe they can have a longer catch and keep season because their numbers are kept higher due to stocking.


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

I find it more disturbing that they would allow weed control chemicals in a lake during the bass spawn then C&R. I grew up fishing White Lake and witnessed 1000's of bass killed after chemical treatment. I am not a biologist but would like to see a study done on the effects of these chemicals when the fish are in a already stressed situation (spawning). Saddens one to see all those bass belly up in their beds.


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## DeanV (Jan 9, 2001)

I think the idea is this: If bass are protected during the spawn, especially in the northern, less fertile waters, and most bass fisherman are C&R, then they should be capable of self-sustaining populations. Of course, if bass fisherman are going to be irresponsible and catch spawning smallmouth from a rivermouth up north and release them at a weigh-in on spring lake, then we are all screwed since there is nothing we can do to protect our resources from that kind of stupidity other than a longer closed season to protect idiots from themselves.

stocking for salmon and walleye is different, since they have been introduced to waters they are not native to, so to maintain a quality fishery, stocking is needed, especially if the anglers are mainly catch and keep. Reproductive sucess may be marginal for these fish as well since they are not in native areas.


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## wolverines (Jan 29, 2007)

Ranger Ray said:


> I find it more disturbing that they would allow weed control chemicals in a lake during the bass spawn then C&R. I grew up fishing White Lake and witnessed 1000's of bass killed after chemical treatment. I am not a biologist but would like to see a study done on the effects of these chemicals when the fish are in a already stressed situation (spawning). Saddens one to see all those bass belly up in their beds.


 

I remember hearing about that...guys rave about how great a smallmouth factory White used to be, one of the best around. Green fish dominate the weigh-ins there now.

I also remember about 5 years ago seeing the fan boat on Reeds spraying a bunch of chemicals and then a few days later there were dead Crappie floating all over.

The lake associations are going to spray, not much we can do about that. It would be nice to be able to convince them to not do it so early in the spring. Their timing couldn't be worse. They screwed up Morrison so bad a couple years back the DNR had to bring in some big devise to produce Oxygen. That lake has 3 associations...it's constantly being sprayed.


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

ESOX said:


> Maybe they can have a longer catch and keep season because their numbers are kept higher due to stocking.


Good point. _Put & Take_ is just that. "Protect The Spawn" seems more a battle cry than science. 

Think about this: One cannot really 'protect the spawn' unless the preceeding months to the spawn are off-limits. All big pike caught thru ice are egg-laden hens, & legally taken fish. And that's approved. Same story for walleyes. I think Bass populations suffer the least from angling than any species here, yet the are 'protected' the most(or at least on par w/ stream trout:lol. People -generally- don't harvest bass. But a big (or any)walleye?:corkysm55 



Ranger Ray said:


> I find it more disturbing that they would allow weed control chemicals in a lake during the bass spawn then C&R. I grew up fishing White Lake and witnessed 1000's of bass killed after chemical treatment. I am not a biologist but would like to see a study done on the effects of these chemicals when the fish are in a already stressed situation (spawning). Saddens one to see all those bass belly up in their beds.


An outrage. Another example of MDNR improperly balancing the interests of the angling public vs the all-sports folks and/or residents.




DeanV said:


> I think the idea is this: If bass are protected during the spawn, especially in the northern, less fertile waters, and most bass fisherman are C&R, then they should be capable of self-sustaining populations. Of course, if bass fisherman are going to be irresponsible and catch spawning smallmouth from a rivermouth up north and release them at a weigh-in on spring lake, then we are all screwed since there is nothing we can do to protect our resources from that kind of stupidity other than a longer closed season to protect idiots from themselves.


And the question here is: Does the closed season *actually protect* the spawn? 

Maybe the tourney guys _transplanting_ bedding bass many miles could be detrimental enough to warrant restriction. Might be resolved by the tourney organizations mandating/defining travel parameters for the competition, to avoid this. Dunno. (I fish tournaments)

All fish do not spawn at the same time, and that makes the effeciveness of closed seasons questionable and the setting the season's dates a matter of subjectivity.


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## waterfoul (May 18, 2005)

As I understand it, this year the MDNR will be re-evaluating the weed spraying permits? As I understand it the MDNR must approve the spraying of lakes and issue permits.

Am I all wet on this?


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## Southend517 (Feb 18, 2004)

1) Bass are for guys that can't catch walleys

2) I run into alot of people that do not know there is a bass season. I probably have told over 30-40 people last year that they cant target bass through the ice or until the C&R season starts. I also have ran in to few people keeping small bass, and over the limit.

3) I catch way more bass then walleye


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## waterfoul (May 18, 2005)

Southend517 said:


> *1) Bass are for guys that can't catch walleys*
> 
> 2) I run into alot of people that do not know there is a bass season. I probably have told over 30-40 people last year that they cant target bass through the ice or until the C&R season starts. I also have ran in to few people keeping small bass, and over the limit.
> 
> 3) *I catch way more bass then walleye*


 
So what does that say about you?? :lol::lol:


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## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

waterfoul said:


> So what does that say about you?? :lol::lol:


I think it basically says SE sLaYaH is a waaaaaaaaaaaay better bass fisherman than you and we _won't EVEN _go there on eyeballZ , "Mr. I'll be the first to admit a Walleye is more cagey than a bass"
:woohoo1::mischeif::woohoo1:

I ate my last three smelt today.....

:sad: 
boo hooo .....


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## waterfoul (May 18, 2005)

Hey, bass are eazy fo sheezy... wally eyes are cagey fo shazy.... and I'll be the first to admit it!!


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

Southend517 said:


> 1) Bass are for guys that can't catch walleys/quote]
> 
> :lol:
> 
> ...


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## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

*Oh God........*


Get your waders on boYYz & gUrLz!!!

 


I gotta go fishin' with this guy MORE OFTEN!!!!
Maybe he's got some REAL pointers he's not lettin' on to!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## treehunter2 (Feb 7, 2001)

can't find them its been so long ...... i remmeber now gave the waders and snow shovel to my brother hahaha


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

sea nympho said:


> *I catch 'em on spinnerbaits*.


I catch 12# channel cats on spinnerbaits, too.:coolgleam


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## MAttt (Dec 15, 2004)

I was out at Kent Lake on Sunday and it looked like a small bass tournament
going on with about a dozen boats out just from the east launch.
The few I could see were tossing all the basic bass lures and seem they
either don't know the current regs or just don't really care one way or the other.

Personally I don't have problem with it except I wouldn't do it myself
in fear of getting a ticket for targeting fish out of season.
Does the dnr actually give a ticket for this?

When the c&r season does start is when the spawning starts and they'll
just be ripping them off their beds at that point which is not much of
an accomplishment imao.
But then again they are only bass and are about as hard to catch as carp.


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## BradU20 (Jan 17, 2005)

The timing of the regulations are being evaluated with some ongoing and planned research by the MDNR. A combination of GIS work, field and lab studies are being used to get a better handle on the timing of the spawn statewide. Depending on the results, changes could be made in the future.


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

The guys out bass fishing now probably believe the regualation in question (a matter of _targeting_, not harvesting, of course) is pointless, has no positive impact, and is an affront to citezens' rights! ...and therefor conciously decide to ignore that ancient, ignorant regulation until such time as the over-paid MDNR 'rule-makers' in Lansing finally relent that their predecessors had *NO CLUE* (or even a basic understanding of the scientific process) in establishing the reg! 

But remember, prior to the C&R bass season, you're *not* bass fishing, you're fishing for dogfish or a state-record perch! :evilsmile

Now how much 'research' does MDNR need to do & spend $ on, since _any_ of us who knows jackshit can tell you exactly when the bass [email protected]!

And if MDNR wants to close the season* then*, well, there will probably be outright Mutiny!:lol: A closed bass season the last 2 weeks of May?  *NOT!! *

*Time to give up the pointless fight, MDNR! *
Redefine all 'Closed Seasons' as 'Zero Harvest'. Do away with the "targeting" clause that NEVER should have been written in the first place. And please appologize to your constituency for having such faith in your ignorant predecessors and being _so_ slow to rectify this injustice and apply modern science.


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## BradU20 (Jan 17, 2005)

sea nympho said:


> Now how much 'research' does MDNR need to do & spend $ on, since _any_ of us who knows jackshit can tell you exactly when the bass [email protected]!


The problem is that it doesn't occur at the same time, on every lake, in every part of the state and even for different size fish, in the same lake.



sea nympho said:


> *Time to give up the pointless fight, MDNR! *
> Redefine all 'Closed Seasons' as 'Zero Harvest'. Do away with the "targeting" clause that NEVER should have been written in the first place. And please appologize to your constituency for having such faith in your ignorant predecessors and being _so_ slow to rectify this injustice and apply modern science.


Are you convinced C&R has no effect on spawning fish? Just want your opinion, because no one knows for sure.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

It has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that fishing during the spawn does have an efffect. Particularly in goby infested waters predation of the nest occours. Not all males caught even return to the nest to resume guard duty after release. I am all for catching bass all year EXCEPT the spawn.


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

ESOX said:


> It has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that fishing during the spawn does have an efffect. ... *I am all for catching bass all year EXCEPT the spawn*.


I agree, but since the spawn is too variable to define in terms of specific dates, attempting to close the season from this date to that date IN ORDER TO protect that spawn is unworkable & ineffectual.



BradU20 said:


> The problem is that it doesn't occur at the same time, on every lake, in every part of the state and even for different size fish, in the same lake.
> 
> Are you convinced C&R has no effect on spawning fish? Just want your opinion, because no one knows for sure.


NO, I think pulling fish off beds is bad & unethical, I don't do it. *But a couple of bad apples shouldn't spoil it for the rest. * And other states don't close their seasons and do just fine, even other northern states.

Statewide spawning patterns is ONE reason that closed seasons don't perform their intended task, another is seasonal weather patterns. For example, last year spring came early, this year it's late. Such factors can manipulate the spawn by weeks. Therefor, MDNR cannot close the season during the spawn effectively, it's impossible unless the season is closed from , say, May 1 - June 20 every year!!!:yikes:

And THAT is not worth it.

It's up to the individual angler to exercise good judgement and common sense. YES, not everyone will 'play ball', but not everyone does anyway, so what difference does it make?


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## thedude (Jul 20, 2004)

it will be quite rare to find a spawning bass before the last sat in april most years, with maybe the exception of a few lakes down by IN.... so the season now pretty much lets us target bass while they spawn... By the regular season opener, bass are just spawning in most mid to northern lakes - leaving them open to catch & keep fishing.

there is no argument to not allow C&R fishing year round based on the current regulations.


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

thedude said:


> ... *By the regular season opener, bass are just spawning in most mid to northern lakes - leaving them open to catch & keep fishing.*
> 
> there is no argument to not allow C&R fishing year round based on the current regulations.


EXACTLY!

Unless that argument involves MDNR being out-of-touch. I swear there are a dozen things they could do with the stroke of a pen that would cost $0 and make things better, like slot limits on pike. They are over-focused on high dollar improvements and projects.


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## BradU20 (Jan 17, 2005)

thedude said:


> there is no argument to not allow C&R fishing year round based on the current regulations.


Based on the current, yup, completely agree....things just don't quite make sense.



sea nympho said:


> _They _are over-focused on high dollar improvements and projects.


Specifically fish division? or the entire DNR? What other $0 improvements do you have? PM me with more details...I don't want to clutter this thread.


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

BradU20 said:


> Based on the current, yup, completely agree....things just don't quite make sense.
> 
> 
> 
> Specifically fish division? or the entire DNR? What other $0 improvements do you have? PM me with more details...I don't want to clutter this thread.


Specifically fisheries, yes, but I believe there's a general mentality pervading MDNR that's top-down, of passing the buck, complaining, and basically freezing in the face of adversity, like a deer in headlights. Well, welcome to the club MDNR, we're ALL feeling the pinch!

$0 - Fire several over-paid white collar, administrative/mgmnt/beaurocrats etc.., and use the freed funds to put ,boots on the ground', you know, people out doing _real_ work like lake assesments, (which were halted BTW) and taking care of launches, or increase enforcement, which could then focus on _really important issues_ instead of handing out tickets for 'targeting a species out of season'.

$0 - Redefine all closed fishing seasons as 'zero-limit' seasons, thus increasing angling opportunity in the state, and maybe subsequently increasing revenue.

$0 - Scream like a banshee (publicly!) when a FED entity like the EPA overrules MDNR and allows something like unchecked ballast water dumping in the G Lakes. Citezens of the state would respect that action, and may get motivated to DO something about it. It IS the right thing to do.

$0 - Spend the revenue dollars in accordance with angler hours. Too many expensive 'pet projects' that reach too few anglers in the state.

$0 - Learn from other states' DNR's and network more. If you ever wonder what might happen if you do 'X', there's probably another state that already tried doing 'X', and that can give you a head start. Apples to Oranges? Sometimes. But, for example, Ontario's MNR is doing excellent work and I think MDNR could learn a lot from them. Other states have open bass seasons year round and they do just fine. 

$0 - Allow dropshots in rivers & esp. drowned rivermouths. Are as many people gonna use this gear to snag stupid salmon (who cares anyway!:lol as are gonna fish it for smallies 3/4 of the year? I doubt it. Let us have our freedom to apply this technique where we choose.

More exaples to follow as I remember them.

Recruitment is the fisheries term for the number of fry that survive to fingerlings. The scientific reports I've read indicate that while angler pressure can leave a nest exposed to predators like bluegill, actual recruitment #'s vary little from jurisdictions with & without closed seasons protecting the spawn. 

And HERE's the real kicker: OUR closed bass season DOESN'T EVEN DO THAT!

If anyone questions this research I will be happy to post it as soon as I can find it, lemme know. I have MASSES of info and 20 years of In-Fish publications to look through to find it.


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## waterfoul (May 18, 2005)

So Brandon, we're going dogfish fishing tomorrow... right?


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## twoteal (Jul 22, 2001)

jpollman said:


> . I'd rather give them some time off from being targeted so that the resource will have a better chance at being there in the future.
> 
> John


That is a retarted argument. Lord knows all those poor overfished and skinny, tired bass in Texas and Florida need a break then:lol:


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## thedude (Jul 20, 2004)

twoteal said:


> That is a retarted argument. Lord knows all those poor overfished and skinny, tired bass in Texas and Florida need a break then:lol:


yeah, around here thats called "November through April". How many guys do you think really would be out giving bass h*ll when its 38* out? I would, but its not gonna be like labor day weekend! They get a pretty good break and honestly, if you can go out and pound bass in 38* water... well you might as well go pro because there are few fish that are harder to catch than a lip-locked bass.


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## RichP (Jan 13, 2003)

I dunno, maybe it's just a strange coincidence due to the lakes I'm on, but some days when I'm out fall fishing or ice fishing for panfish I catch quite a few bass unintentionally, and I'm about as far from a pro bass fisherman as you can get...


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

Does every species need a 'break'?  :lol:  Every fish should be so lucky!That's reduculous! Many othr species recieve no such break and do _just fine_ here. Bass in other northrn states even, GET NO BREAK and do as good or better than ours - and that's really due to MEANINGFUL regulation & management.

*Even so*, ice time is _plenty_ of break time. Not many are pulled thru the ice & cold water AS COMAPRED with the soft-water open season, & I think that's what dude is saying.


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## BradU20 (Jan 17, 2005)

I'll tell you what, the more I think about this, the more I see why you guys get so fired up about this. I have tried to justify how things stand right now, and can't come up with anything.

I have also caught a fair number of bass in Ohio and Michigan crappie and bluegill fishing in early spring and late fall. So maybe guys fishing with micro jigs and wax worms should be ticketed for targeting bass, not the guys chucking cranks.


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

BradU20 said:


> ...maybe guys fishing with micro jigs and wax worms should be ticketed for targeting bass, not the guys chucking cranks.


Or maybe it's no one's right to tell you how to fish for a particular species. I catch many big specs & perch on little raps every spring.

Because that's really what the issue of enforcement of this archaic statute boils down to. A guy fishing after ice-out with a spinnerbait will be presumed to be pike or bass fishing, and that's not fair. Maybe he's clueless, or tuning baits for the upcoming season, or looking for a state-record perch or rockbass or dogfish or channel cat! YES channel cats!, I took this one last summer on a booyah blade: 









I think it's nobody's business how I'm fishing for whatever I'm fishing for and THAT should have made the idiotic rule UNenforceable form the start, almost by default cancelling-out the ignorant closed season by virtue of this loophole and sheer common-sense - and _freedom_.

In a way, 'the man' can tell us HOW we have to fish, that's almost stalinist!:lol:
Let's hope he's cool, and in a good mood. Or better yet, feels as we do and thinks it crazy he has to enforce this


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

All warmwater species target_able_ all year.

'Zero harvest' periods directly coinciding with spawning spawning activity, to be determined by MDNR and averaged in a workable way, as in saddling by 2 weeks either side of an averaged spawning period per gamefish species (less those species relatively unaffected by angling pressure during spawntime). And maybe even by region (zone) if found, scientifically, to be more neccesary than the need to keep regulations concise.


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## Jason Ammerman (Sep 17, 2007)

Having an "Opening Day" Brings every bobber chucker out for one weekend that owns a cane pole, If you did not have an "opening Day" I bet 1/2 of the bass would get put in the pan per year.

It is a stupid law, as was stated in a earlyer post we are only one of 3 states that has a season on bass. The other states bass population is doing just fine.


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