# Question for the experts



## Jet08 (Aug 21, 2007)

I am getting ready to be in the market for a pistol. I originally was pretty set on a .44 mag. The more I talk to people the more I am leaning towards a .460 or something in that range. I want a gun that I can use for hunting purposes as well as something that i can carry on my side while bear hunting or for elk out west...

What are your thoughts?
I am putting into consideration a scope on this gun, but will this be to bulky to carry....

Thanks for the thoughts.. all are welcome


----------



## Rustyaxecamp (Mar 1, 2005)

Not an expert, but.....

You will find it hard to meet both the requirments for hunting and bear protection. I proper hunting revolver will be a tough big and heavy for a carry gun.

I chose a Smith 629 in 44 with a 6.5" brrl. I intended to use it for both, like you mention, but I carried it one day in AK and it stayed in the tent the rest of the trip. It was just too darn heavy to lug in addition to my rifle and light pack.

I have not hunted with it exclusively yet, but plan to some day. I carried it a few times while in the woods during season helping others (and not carrying a long gun myself).

As far as caliber, I am not a big fan of new calibers, so I chose the 44 mag (the 460 was not out when I bought mine, but other biggins' were like the 454). Most sporting goods shops carry 44, 460 and the like can be scarce (and expensive).


----------



## SweetWilliam (Mar 9, 2008)

If you really want it for bear and elk then bigger is better...If you can shoot it. With the proper bullet put in the right spot, a .44 will do the job.

I like using some sort of red dot sight on revolvers, but they add a lot of bulk to carry all day, batteries go dead, simple is good. My eyes just don't pick up the front sight like they used to, and the red dot is quick to point in any light condition. 

Realistically you are not going to be shooting very far with a handgun at elk or bear. A scope is not needed.


----------



## phyrelin (Jun 14, 2007)

hmmm... I'm no expert. I dont like bears at all so I would probally use a short 375 H&H Mag w/ a CCO and figure out a way to mount up a 40mm grenade launcher. then carry the 44mag on my side. ok... Back to the real world. I would say the 44 Mag would be the minimum requirement. I would suggest something more like the .500 Smith w/ a mil-spec grade optics package, something like trijicon or aimpoint. Trijicon makes a great 1.5x reddot w/ no batteries it is the called ACOG. I've never seen one on a pistol but I do not see why it would not be a good option. Also, shoot w/ both eyes open if you do not already. This will do more than any sight for fast target accusition. Necessary when you are about to get chewed on by a grizzly. Are you planning on using the pistol to shoot the elk as well? Because if htat is the case i would think a scope would be nescessay. 

Eric


----------



## jmoser (Sep 11, 2002)

Beyond 50 yards max you will need optics for hunting. Anything longer than 6" bbl is a big pain to carry in any caliber, forget about a sidearm with scope for woods carry.

Get a scoped gun for hunting and one for carry if needed. .460 will break the bank and still be marginal for grizzly.


----------



## Jet08 (Aug 21, 2007)

phyrelin said:


> Are you planning on using the pistol to shoot the elk as well? Because if htat is the case i would think a scope would be nescessay.
> 
> Eric


I should have been more clear, at this point in time I am looking for a good side arm for pertection while in the mountains or bear hunting. I would like to find a gun to deer hunt with as well.. Some day I would like to take an elk with one as well. I thought about just taking the scope off one of these calibers and using it as a side arm and remounting the scope when i need it for hunting. That doesn't seem very economical tho...

So what caliber would be most universal to carry for protection and to be able to hunt with?


----------



## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

Jet08 said:


> I should have been more clear, at this point in time I am looking for a good side arm for pertection while in the mountains or bear hunting. I would like to find a gun to deer hunt with as well.. Some day I would like to take an elk with one as well. I thought about just taking the scope off one of these calibers and using it as a side arm and remounting the scope when i need it for hunting. That doesn't seem very economical tho...
> 
> So what caliber would be most universal to carry for protection and to be able to hunt with?


I'm FAR from being an expert but, here's a question that I'd probably be asking myself if I was in your situation: *Considering the prices of the different handguns and the price and availability of ammunition, how many times and what are my odds that I will have to use THAT handgun for protection from a bear?*

I have a friend that lives way up north of Thompson Falls in MT. He's lives in the mountains and is out further than his wife wants him to go looking for gold when not hunting. Ya, he's got the fever! He's in the mountains every day and has seen grizz. He's never had any type of close call. He says that as long as you don't poke one in the ass, you don't have anything to worry about. He spends his summers in Alaska, back in the bush so far or, on some desolute coast that he just proves that he's nuts! He says that the only place that he's had to worry about bears was in the bush in Alaska and it was ALWAYS a black bear. For that, the weapon of choice for the "miners" is a shotgun with slugs.

I have a Ruger Super Redhawk in .44 mag., 7 3/8", and I've taken numerous deer with it. I handload all my ammunition and try to stay extremely consistent with my loads. I believe that if I wasn't handloading, I'd much rather prefer to pay for 44 mag rounds than the larger rounds.

One thing that I can just about assure you, if you want to harvest ANYTHING with a handgun, leave the long gun at home. I've seen so many guys purchase a handgun to hunt with, only to end up carrying a long gun also. Guess which weapon that they used when it came right down to it? A hunting buddy of mine carried both for 4 years and always ended up using his Encore. Finally, during the late season he only took his handgun. Made is first handgun kill that evening.
Good luck with your choice!


----------



## UPhiker (Jul 13, 2008)

phyrelin said:


> Trijicon makes a great 1.5x reddot w/ no batteries it is the called ACOG. I've never seen one on a pistol but I do not see why it would not be a good option.
> Eric


The ACOG is not a red dot as we know it. It is a regular rifle scope with a fed dot as as aiming poit. The eye relief is only 2 inches, which keeps it from being feasible on a handgun.


----------



## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

Bigger is better. Just be aware of the massive recoil from the .460. The 500S&W actually has less recoil due to it's huge frame. If it were me, I'd get the 460 too.


----------



## MIoutdoorsjunkie (Oct 11, 2006)

I own the 460 in the 5 inch barrel. I bought it specifically for Protection while salmon fishing in Alaska. The 460 is a heck of a gun and very versitle at that. Can shoot .45 LC and .454 Casull with no problem. For Bear protection I used Corbon 395gr Hard cast Bullets with 1525fps and 2040 ft/lbs of energy. I was worried about carrying such a heavy large revolver as well... but this holster solved my problem. 

http://www.davidjohnstonleather.com/Pages/GuidesChoice.html

The holster is of very, very good quailty and handmade by a guy in Alaska. 
If you are looking for something for protection purposes only, go with the 5inch barrel but if you are planning on hunting with it I would probably get the 8 inch barrel. or 8 1/4 or whatever it is. 



Jeff


----------



## UPhiker (Jul 13, 2008)

QuakrTrakr said:


> Bigger is better. Just be aware of the massive recoil from the .460. The 500S&W actually has less recoil due to it's huge frame. If it were me, I'd get the 460 too.


The .460 and .500 use the same frame.


----------



## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

UPhiker said:


> The .460 and .500 use the same frame.


Are you sure? Guns & Ammo TV did a side by side comparison of the two. The 460 will shoot .45 Colts and .454 Casulls also.


----------



## 8iowa (Jan 28, 2008)

I've been on many elk hunts in Colorado, on horseback in the mountains. I don't carry a handgun. In fact, I limit the weight of my personal baggage because I will have to do some walking/hiking/climbing at 9000 feet altitude. I've even gotten to carrying a lighter weight rifle. Carrying a 5 lb pistol on your belt would only last one day! In fact, none of my guides carry anything heavier than a 22 pistol, and it's intended purpose is to "pop" an occasional grouse. My outfitter has a 45 Colt single action revolver, but I've never seen it leave the ranch.

That said, one guide that I had a few years ago also does some ranching and guiding in Montana. Up there there have been a few encounters with Grizzlys. However, he carries a 30-06 rifle rather than a pistol. It would probably be a good idea to check with your outfitter, who can best advise you of the potential bear hazzards in his hunt area. If you are going on a "do it yourself" hunt check with the state's wildlife division.

If you are just longing to own a big hand cannon that's another matter. However, it will not have a whole lot of usefulness on a Rocky Mountain elk hunt.


----------



## A-plus (Mar 30, 2003)

I would consider the Ruger Redhawk in 44 Mag with the 4" barrel. According to statistics I have seen, the 44 Mag is the most often used handgun caliber for successfully protecting folks from bear attacks in Alaska. The Redhawk has a longer cylinder than the Smith & Wesson N-frame revolvers and will accept the Cor-Bon heavy loads using 300+ grain bullets if that will make you feel more comfortable. It is a bit large for general carry, but significantly smaller than the X-frame Smith & Wesson. Ammunition is considerably less expensive than the 460 or 500 Smith, easier to find also. I have killed several deer with a 4" 44 Mag using open sights, from 15 yards to 65 yards, never lost one.

One word of caution, practice with whatever you choose frequently. A handgun is much more difficult to use effectively than a long gun and requires considerably more practice.


----------



## redneckdan (Dec 14, 2004)

Pick the one that you are willing to carry 24/7 while in the field. 100ft-lbs on your hip beats 10,000 back in the tent. Murphys law states that you will need it most when you go visit the crapper at 3 in the morning, not when you are standing around with you primary weapon.


----------



## Skinner 2 (Mar 19, 2004)

I have a Super Redhawk in .44mag. 7 1/2" barrel. I also placed a 2x Nikon on top for hunting. I use the Shoulder rig to carry for deer. If you want it for protection then use a hip holster without the scope. All close shooting then.

Also with the Ruger and the rings supplied you can pretty much place the scope on top and remove it without moving the POI. Least everytime I did I have not had to adjust the scope.

Skinner


----------



## Rustyaxecamp (Mar 1, 2005)

Have you shot large handguns before?

Might want to call a local shop that rents guns on their range (Duncans in Bay City) and see if they have a 44 and a 460 or 500 you can rip a few off with. Might help you decide. Check out ammo prices also.


----------



## Jet08 (Aug 21, 2007)

MIoutdoorsjunkie said:


> If you are looking for something for protection purposes only, go with the 5inch barrel but if you are planning on hunting with it I would probably get the 8 inch barrel. or 8 1/4 or whatever it is. Jeff


Do you know if they make interchangable barrels like a shotgun?


----------



## Jet08 (Aug 21, 2007)

Rustyaxecamp said:


> Have you shot large handguns before?
> 
> Might want to call a local shop that rents guns on their range (Duncans in Bay City) and see if they have a 44 and a 460 or 500 you can rip a few off with. Might help you decide. Check out ammo prices also.


I have shot a .44 mag with a scope pretty often, with a scope. From the dealers tell, a .460 with a muzzlebreak has a similar recoil to the .44 just louder..


----------



## Jet08 (Aug 21, 2007)

redneckdan said:


> Murphys law states that you will need it most when you go visit the crapper at 3 in the morning, not when you are standing around with you primary weapon.


:yikes: :lol::lol:


----------



## Rustyaxecamp (Mar 1, 2005)

I think Dan Wesson used to make a revolver with switch out barrels. Google that brand.


----------



## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

I would carry the Smith & Wesson 329PD....24oz fullsize 44 mag. If you can't manage to hump 30oz of gun and ammo on your hip or pack waist trap, you probably shouldn't be in the mountains. 

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...angId=-1&parent_category_rn=15706&isFirearm=Y

I don't know if I qualify as an expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express recently!


----------



## MIoutdoorsjunkie (Oct 11, 2006)

From my experience the .460 has quite a bit more recoil than the .44 Mag. However, I think it depends on which 44 mag we are speaking about. If you get one of the ultra light S&W, you may have your hands full as well. Especially with hot .44 rounds!! The .460 draws a heck of alot of attention at the range. I make a habit of letting the guys next to me know that I am about to fire it and make sure they have ear protection on. IT IS LOUD!! Not only is it loud but the concussive blast will rattle the concrete at the shooting range. 

It is kinda funny.. If I am at the range (outdoor) and I dont make it a point to tell everyone that I am shooting it I definitely get alot of attention!! After the blast you will see guys from the other end of the range give you the "what is the hell was that" look. It is rather comical. Most often they will come down and chat and If someone is really interested I always extend the offer to shoot it. Lots of fun. 

Anyways.. It is a fun gun to own but, as with everything, it comes with a price tag. Also .460 ammo is pretty expensive and yes, it is a heavy gun. I shoot alot of .45LC through it as the ammo is cheaper. If you are looking for a pistol for protection, You really cant go wrong. Check out the holster that I mentioned in my pervious post. The holster is super comfortable. 

Jeff


----------



## joe allen (Dec 23, 2008)

.44 mag ruger super redhawk w/7.5 bbl.25 grns of h110 behind a hornady 240 grn xtp
still has about 1000 lbs of energy at 100 yds. (if you can hit at 100!)plenty for a deer.at 10 yds you might be able to get on target 6 times quickly if you are motivated enough! the .454 and the .460 are large handguns and will require a lot of practice to be proficient. i would shoot them all first before a major purchase.


----------



## Jet08 (Aug 21, 2007)

Rustyaxecamp said:


> I think Dan Wesson used to make a revolver with switch out barrels. Google that brand.


Does anyone know anything else about this brand. That would be perfect if I could get two different lengths. One for a side arm and one for hunting purposes.


----------



## redneckdan (Dec 14, 2004)

Swamp Monster said:


> I would carry the Smith & Wesson 329PD....24oz fullsize 44 mag. If you can't manage to hump 30oz of gun and ammo on your hip or pack waist trap, you probably shouldn't be in the mountains.


 
Unless you are truely counting ounces, I would go with either the 629 4" or 629 mountain gun. Guides who live out of their backpacks for months at a time are the target demographic for the 329PD. The 329PD recoil is truely vicous with magnum loads. The friggin thing weights 26oz for pete sake! The 329 with a rem-chester class load (not buffalo bore) has 39.4 pounds of recoil energy. The 629 mountain gun with the same load is kicking just under 25lbs. The alloy frame smith and wesson revolvers have hideous triggers compared to stainless or ordance steel frames. It has to do with the difference in friction coefficent. Another problem of the 329PD is that the recoil can be sharp enough that the 'safety lock' actually locks it self, this doesn't happen all the time with every gun but I've had it happen to me with 2 different guns. The cam operates in a forward motion. When the gun recoils, inertia keeps the cam in place and the gun moves backward....viola you now have a 30 ounce paper weight.

I carry a 4" 629, prelock model, stoked with 250gr keiths at 1400fps.


----------



## malainse (Sep 2, 2002)

Rustyaxecamp said:


> I think Dan Wesson used to make a revolver with switch out barrels. *Google that brand*.


As Rusty said "Google Dan Wesson revolver" .... 
I had one in .22 and was a good shooting gun. My friend has .357 Max, .41 and .44 mag... He said would never sell them.....

Here is a good links with info...http://www.notpurfect.com/main/dwrev.htm


----------



## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

AHHHHHHHHHHHH! REDNECKDAN Still has that same picture!


----------



## redneckdan (Dec 14, 2004)

QuakrTrakr said:


> AHHHHHHHHHHHH! REDNECKDAN Still has that same picture!


 
I don't check in here much. Usually too busy with classes and such. I'll try to find another one for ya....:lol:


----------



## UPhiker (Jul 13, 2008)

QuakrTrakr said:


> Are you sure? Guns & Ammo TV did a side by side comparison of the two. The 460 will shoot .45 Colts and .454 Casulls also.


Yes, I'm sure. They are both built on the X-Frame.


----------



## Nick Adams (Mar 10, 2005)

Jet08 said:


> Does anyone know anything else about this brand.


You will have to find a used one. They don't make them anymore.

CZ ended up with the Dan Wesson brand. They currently only offer 1911 autos in handguns.

-na


----------



## UPhiker (Jul 13, 2008)

I know this is nowhere near as much "Fun", but if you want bear protection, get some pepper spray.


----------



## MIoutdoorsjunkie (Oct 11, 2006)

UPhiker said:


> I know this is nowhere near as much "Fun", but if you want bear protection, get some pepper spray.


 
or.. alot more simple... just make sure you are with a friend that you can outrun in a foot race!! ha ha ha or... just bring a 22. pocket pistol. When the bear is charging, shoot friend in knee and take off running. ha ha ha!!


----------



## Jet08 (Aug 21, 2007)

malainse said:


> As Rusty said "Google Dan Wesson revolver" ....
> I had one in .22 and was a good shooting gun. My friend has .357 Max, .41 and .44 mag... He said would never sell them.....
> 
> Here is a good links with info...http://www.notpurfect.com/main/dwrev.htm


I seen that one, lots and lots of info




Nick Adams said:


> You will have to find a used one. They don't make them anymore.
> 
> CZ ended up with the Dan Wesson brand. They currently only offer 1911 autos in handguns.
> 
> -na


 Thanks na, this is why I asked, because I could not find any Dan Wesson revolvers on the CZ site. Now I need to figure out where to find a nice used one :lol:


----------



## phyrelin (Jun 14, 2007)

UPhiker said:


> The ACOG is not a red dot as we know it. It is a regular rifle scope with a fed dot as as aiming poit. The eye relief is only 2 inches, which keeps it from being feasible on a handgun.


Good to know... Thanks


----------



## Beaglernr (Dec 1, 2002)

While you are looking at big bore handguns, be sure to check out Freedom Arms and there outstanding guns. They cost more but are shooting machines and a dream to operate.


----------



## 22 Chuck (Feb 2, 2006)

Remember to file those front sights off of handguns for bear.


----------



## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

UPhiker said:


> I know this is nowhere near as much "Fun", but if you want bear protection, get some pepper spray.


 Maybe a Desert Eagle, 44, or 50 cal., they bring a whole new meaning to the word fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------

