# robo's banned at SRSGA.....



## ahartz (Dec 28, 2000)

hot off the press..is this the beginning of the end of these??? 


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
June 7, 2010

Contacts: Barbara Avers 517-373-1263 or Mary Dettloff 517-335-3014


Spinning-Wing Decoys Banned At Shiawassee River State Game Area

Waterfowl hunters will not be allowed to use spinning-wing decoys at Shiawassee River State Game Area this fall, the Department of Natural Resources and Environment announced today.

Acting on a request by the Shiawassee Flats Citizens and Hunters Association, the Michigan Natural Resources Commission voted to ban spinning-wing decoys - popularly known as *robo-ducks* -- from the managed waterfowl hunts at Shiawassee on an experimental basis. The NRC directed the DNRE to evaluate the ban for three years with hunter opinion surveys.

Although research has shown no conclusive biological impacts from the use of spinning-wing decoys, the Shiawassee hunting group proposed the ban because the use of the decoys can negatively impact the hunting experience of other parties sharing the same field. Some hunters say the decoys can sometimes spook birds from entire fields during certain periods of the season.

The proposed ban was presented to the Citizens Waterfowl Advisory Committee
(CWAC) at its March meeting. CWAC supported the proposed ban at Shiawassee.

The DNRE is committed to the conservation, protection, management and accessible use of the state*s environment, natural resources and related economic interests for current and future generations. For more information, go to www.michigan.gov/dnre.


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## dpossum (Jul 19, 2006)

Thank you for the informartion Andy. I think this is a great idea. I can hardly wait to see how long this thread gets.


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## BFG (Mar 4, 2005)

LOL...look at the other one!


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## duckassassin95 (Mar 21, 2010)

This isn't gonna happen to point mouillette is it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

ban was in the morning local tv news. kinda surprised.


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## dankoustas (Sep 18, 2007)

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=336959

Check out this link and get caught up on the interesting and friendly discussion


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## wavie (Feb 2, 2004)

After his interview with Obi in Kalamzoo yesterday, Matt Laurer swung by the Shi flats to do a piece on this latest developement. Look for it on the Today show wed am. This thing is going global.


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## Big Honkers (Dec 20, 2008)




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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Big Honkers said:


>


thanks. can we kill this already?


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## Gander Club (Dec 31, 2004)

duckassassin95 said:


> This isn't gonna happen to point mouillette is it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 I sure do hope it will!!!!


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## ScavengerMan (Sep 6, 2006)

just ducky said:


> thanks. can we kill this already?



Sorry JD, but the discussion hasn't even begun on this topic. :tdo12:


I predict the outstanding work you and all the other volunteers did in getting this ban in place is going to be THE talk of the forum before, during and probably after the season. So settle in and be prepared to live with a constant rehash until everyone is ready to puke. 


After all, you guys opened the can of worms!   :lol:


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

ScavengerMan said:


> ...After all, you guys opened the can of worms!   :lol:


:lol: We just did what LOTS of people had talked about trying for years now. So....bring it on I guess.


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## Quaaack (Nov 22, 2007)

I'd like to see it state wide. They spook more birds than they attrack. Want to kill more birds ? Learn when and how to use a call! 100 times more effective than a spinner if you know what you are doing!


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## GrizzlyBear (Apr 27, 2003)

ahartz said:


> hot off the press..is this the beginning of the end of these???



Lets hope so.


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

I hope this is not the end of them in the entire state. That would be a dumb political move. While I agree with most that one can learn to call better, etc, you have to stop and think about money. I own three of these. I would be pissed that my $500 investment is suddenly worthless. In addition you suddenly have a few decoy companies pissed at the state. This could lead to lobbying against Federal Funding ? I dunno. 

I also would like the option to use them in a field, should I ever secure permission in a mallard flooded field. 

Like the next person I like old school hunting, but some of the gadgets today are helpfull, some are not. If we go as far to ban robos, we need to ban duck calls too. Both are as evil as the next is not used correctly.


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## FullBody (Nov 4, 2008)

Bellyup said:


> Like the next person I like old school hunting, but some of the gadgets today are helpfull, some are not. If we go as far to ban robos, we need to ban duck calls too. Both are as evil as the next is not used correctly.


While I respect your opinion BU, I keep hearing the same comparison..."they should ban bad calling or the duck call then." 

It's not just you, its been said by many on here. Just seems like complete apples and oranges to me. Duck calling is an actual skill that takes practice and can be aquired. There is no set definition or guidelines to gauge what is acceptable calling. 

However, anybody...ANYBODY can stick a robo (or 10) out.


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## waxico (Jan 21, 2008)

There is one.............the ducks.

Enough bad calling, and I think even Cletus could make the connection.


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## FullBody (Nov 4, 2008)

waxico said:


> There is one.............the ducks.
> 
> Enough bad calling, and I think even Cletus could make the connection.


Agreed and I almost said that earlier...its just more of a grey area and sometimes matter of opinion. Some guys can call ducks so well they can set em down 10 yards out. Some guys can barely get them to swing in range, but to them...that is acceptable calling because they shot a duck.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Bellyup said:


> I hope this is not the end of them in the entire state. That would be a dumb political move. While I agree with most that one can learn to call better, etc, you have to stop and think about money. I own three of these. I would be pissed that my $500 investment is suddenly worthless. In addition you suddenly have a few decoy companies pissed at the state. This could lead to lobbying against Federal Funding ? I dunno.
> 
> I also would like the option to use them in a field, should I ever secure permission in a mallard flooded field.
> 
> Like the next person I like old school hunting, but some of the gadgets today are helpfull, some are not. If we go as far to ban robos, we need to ban duck calls too. Both are as evil as the next is not used correctly.


I can only give you my thoughts. Since I spent lots of time talking with the policy makers at the state level, I can tell you they were not at all talking about a statewide ban (even though I'm sure many of you know that the CWAC had made that recommendation a few years ago), nor do they intend to based on this "experiment". I caution everyone not to read too much into this experiment. There was no "grassy knoll" conspiracy behind this proposal to take over the entire state. It was one band of interested individuals looking to improve the experience when hunting in close quarters of managed areas. Could they expand the ban to include other managed waterfowl areas? Who knows. But I would expect if this experiment is deemed a success, *AND*there is support from other managed area consituent groups like there was at Shiawassee, then maybe they would consider it. 

My personal opinion for what it's worth...you'll never see a statewide ban on these devices unless you can prove that they're harmful to the resource (like in the case of deer baiting). But this ban had nothing to do with harming the resource. As stated in the final Director's Order, this ban is not based on biological reasons, but is based on social reasons, and providing a quality hunting experience.

PS- I own one, and I intend to keep it to use in dry fields both here and in North Dakota, where they work extremely well all year. And we can all still use them anywhere but SRSGA.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

just ducky said:


> I can only give you my thoughts. Since I spent lots of time talking with the policy makers at the state level, I can tell you they were not at all talking about a statewide ban (even though I'm sure many of you know that the CWAC had made that recommendation a few years ago), nor do they intend to based on this "experiment". I caution everyone not to read too much into this experiment. There was no "grassy knoll" conspiracy behind this proposal to take over the entire state. It was one band of interested individuals looking to improve the experience when hunting in close quarters of managed areas. Could they expand the ban to include other managed waterfowl areas? Who knows. But I would expect if this experiment is deemed a success, *AND*there is support from other managed area consituent groups like there was at Shiawassee, then maybe they would consider it.
> 
> My personal opinion for what it's worth...you'll never see a statewide ban on these devices unless you can prove that they're harmful to the resource (like in the case of deer baiting). But this ban had nothing to do with harming the resource. As stated in the final Director's Order, this ban is not based on biological reasons, but is based on social reasons, and providing a quality hunting experience.
> 
> PS- I own one, and I intend to keep it to use in dry fields both here and in North Dakota, where they work extremely well all year. And we can all still use them anywhere but SRSGA.


well said, i hope everyone reads this quote before they sound off about taking their rights away.


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

Some people will just NEVER get this. Period, end of story!!!

Guess we should all listen to the drunks that like to drink and drive and be sypathetic to their feelings. Time to start lobbying Lansing to repeal drunk driving laws, as the laws infringe their rights. Yeah right, NOT!!!!!!
(FYI if you do't get this please see the other thread, you should find your explanation there)

*I am going back to my same prediction from the other thread:*
I think that anyone who has the capability to set some decoys, hide decent and make a few duck like calls is going to see consistent shooting at SRSGA this year, rather than having the peaks and valleys that were seen in the last few years with Robo's running everywhere.

Just my $0.02.


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## twoteal (Jul 22, 2001)

seriously??

Drinking and driving is not funny and should never be compared to whining, spinners or duck hunting at any time.

What are you like 25 or something?:lol:


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

You obviously didn't read through the other thread to understand.

Just so you know, I am 32, a Pharmacist and I take care of children with cancer every day at work. So i think that I have a pretty good grip on life. Had you read the other thread you would have seen that I was using drunk driving laws to maybe help people understand the basis of this ban. aka, sometimes laws/bans are created to protect the innocent from the ......(fill it in with what ever term you like). In this case, the die hard hunters that understand birds, from the inexperienced/rookies whose understanding of birds is: turn on the spiner and they will come. Shi Kid thought it was a great analogy, thus why I referenced it here again.

Like you said drunk driving is serious, yet I bet at least a dozen people, who all probably know better, will drive drunk tonight alone. Thus why we have and need laws. This ban protect the die hards from the inexperienced/rookies/........(fill it in with what ever term you like) from other hunters who don't even know better.

The only dog I had in this fight was being on CWAC and involved in that vote in regards to the ban, but I understood the basis of the creation of the ban, and thus voted for it. I will say again, if I had gotten any hint of this being a "ban-em cause we hate em" senario, I would not have been able to support that.


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## Mike L (Sep 8, 2003)

The other thread had a lot of info and eventually went south. This one 
is not far behind it. I can see that long hand reaching in and shutting this down as well. Where's that dead horse graphic when you need it........


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## highcaliberconsecrator (Oct 16, 2009)

Rob, why even take the bait from that guy?

Alright. Enough is enough!! Before I jam pencils into my eye sockets. Please go away, thread.


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## ScavengerMan (Sep 6, 2006)

highcaliberconsecrator said:


> Alright. Enough is enough!! Before I jam pencils into my eye sockets. Please go away, thread.



Better lock away the pencils along with any other sharp objects. The discussion about Shiawassee banning spinning wing decoys is just getting warmed up! Just wait until season approaches and traffic heats up on the waterfowl forum.


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## Branta (Feb 6, 2002)

As I said in the other related thread; keep it cool, debate as you see fit, but let's show some respect for others AND their differing opinions.

I mean it for both sides of the debate. 

~~~~~~
if you find yourself drawn into running gun battles with another member, there's a simple fix. it's called the "ignore" function. I'd suggest you use it.

the other option is to step away, give it a break and cool down before you start lobbing shells at each other.

it's really unproductive any other way.


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## Ferris_StateHunter (Apr 24, 2006)

just ducky said:


> Frankly, I'd love to see them gone from the face of the earth, and I can tell you without a doubt, the majority of people feel the same...I spoke with tons of them in this process. Not that people don't use them...but the majority would rather not.
> 
> 
> 
> I realize you like to keep stirring this pot, but so everyone else knows, no one ever said "everyone else is ignorant". What we said is all it takes is one hunting party to use these things blindly at the wrong time to ruin the day for everyone. And if you've never set foot on SRSGA, you have no factual way of understanding that concept.



JD you mentioned that only winged spinners both air and motor would be banned... Does this include mojos that sit on the water as well? From what I took, about using mallard machines etc, they would include that floating mojos would be acceptable.. Just looking for clarification.

BTW nice work with the proposal and the ban, looking forward to hunting the SRSGA without hauling fancy gear around. But I am sure we will have a few more 100+ decoy days again this fall because of it


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Ferris_StateHunter said:


> JD you mentioned that only winged spinners both air and motor would be banned... Does this include mojos that sit on the water as well? From what I took, about using mallard machines etc, they would include that floating mojos would be acceptable.. Just looking for clarification.
> 
> BTW nice work with the proposal and the ban, looking forward to hunting the SRSGA without hauling fancy gear around. But I am sure we will have a few more 100+ decoy days again this fall because of it


Ferris,

PM sent.


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## twoteal (Jul 22, 2001)

In all seriousness, is this to big for most of shiawasee? I have a 2500 lbs warn with mount. Also have osage duck canoe but like to have the extra freeboard when I have my 9 y.o. with me?


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Ok in an attempt to be positive (as Branta urged), I'll bite on your question, assuming you're serious...

That's a big boat, but I've seen bigger used at SR. And an airboat too. Now would I recommend it? Heck no. It's overkill for SR. Stick with the canoe, which is what I use a good share of the time, because it's a lot easier to pull dikes, and to hide. But if you have enough manpower, or a good winch to pull the dikes, have at it. Tons of guys use pretty big boats out there.

The real issue to me is hiding a boat that big if you're in the corn strips. You're going to take out several rows to hide it, which makes it that tougher for the next party to follow you to hide. By the end of the season, you can really see where these kinds of boats have made a mess of the corn. So it's really another one of those issues about being considerate of your fellow hunters.


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

Not a problem here. These discussions are just very frustrating and I didn't even have a dog in the fight. I feel bad for the Shi guys having to defend their position on this.

Does anyone else find it ironic that the guys against the ban keep whining that the guys for the ban should hear and consider their opinions, but don't seem to even want to consider the opinions of those that brough the ban on. 

Irony's new definition: I am NOT going to listen to you, but you should listen to me.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

refuge needs some action because twoteal is bored. wonder why no one posts over there much?


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## twoteal (Jul 22, 2001)

just ducky said:


> Ok in an attempt to be positive (as Branta urged), I'll bite on your question, assuming you're serious...
> 
> That's a big boat, but I've seen bigger used at SR. And an airboat too. Now would I recommend it? Heck no. It's overkill for SR. Stick with the canoe, which is what I use a good share of the time, because it's a lot easier to pull dikes, and to hide. But if you have enough manpower, or a good winch to pull the dikes, have at it. Tons of guys use pretty big boats out there.
> 
> The real issue to me is hiding a boat that big if you're in the corn strips. You're going to take out several rows to hide it, which makes it that tougher for the next party to follow you to hide. By the end of the season, you can really see where these kinds of boats have made a mess of the corn. So it's really another one of those issues about being considerate of your fellow hunters.


Thanks, I am assuming that most is wadeable if its corn. The canoe will be the best bet.


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## twoteal (Jul 22, 2001)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> refuge needs some action because twoteal is bored. wonder why no one posts over there much?


Yeah the place is dead, I was part of the migration over there a while back. I like this place more for the ice fishing stuff. checked out the pit blind, it sucks. Go to MMT alot, those are good guys. The mdha board seems like a bunch of stiffs:lol:

The reason no one post over there anymore might be that the knowledge base here is second to none.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

twoteal said:


> ...The reason no one post over there anymore might be that the knowledge base here is second to none.


That's our thought as well :yikes: :evilsmile


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

While I don't which one is worse now, hauling Mojos or 100 plus decoys ! :evilsmile

At any rate, back to a staewide ban possiblility. Here is another argument as to not ban them statewide. I like hunting near someone who is using a few of them on a public lake or marsh. Sometimes it is the easiest set you will ever do. Toss your dozen out hide and wait. When I say near, I am meaning well out of common sense area. Like a few hundred yards or more. And in the path the birds flare. :evilsmile

Personally, I could care less if they ban them, they are a pita to set up in a lake or marsh anyway, especially with no bottom. But I don't know if picking up 150 decoys after a morning hunt is all that much more appealing either. I see that race happening around some areas too.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

some days i ran 100 decoys and 5 spinners. i don't see spreads getting bigger or smaller or any bearing this ban will have on them.

your still only gonna take in your boat what you can fit either way.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

The "outnumbering your neighbor" thing has always happened. And remember when "magnum" size dekes started coming out, and everyone started using them instead of "standard" size? Create your own refuge if ya like...hey if you can carry 'em, more power to ya. 

Doesn't matter what outdoor activity you talk about, you're gonna get the "one-up" thing happening as technology changes. Bowhunting went from recurves, to compounds, to better/faster compounds, to crossbows. Motors went from several variations of outboards, to mud motors and the like. And electronics, whether GPS units, fish finders, cell phones, etc. It goes on and on.

There's one big difference however between the ban and this "one-up" argument...if I'm in a typical flooded corn field, and I have my standard two dozen dekes out, and the other parties are using 4 dozen, 6 dozen, 8 dozen, or whatever (more than me anyway), they may suck all the birds in and away from me, but they won't flare them from the entire field like a robo used at the wrong time will.


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

*"but they won't flare them from the entire field like a robo used at the wrong time will." *

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No more having your hunt completely ruined by someone who either doesn't know, or doesn't care running a robo 3-500 yards from you at the wrong time.


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