# Expanding spray foam insulation



## The Nailer (Feb 7, 2000)

Does anyone know if you can rent a expanding spray foam installation unit. I see them in use all the time when I watch Holmes on Homes and it looks like it does a really good job of sealing things. I would like to use it around the rim joists in the crawl space of my cabin and maybe even my house. 

If you can't rent them does anyone have a recommendation for someone who does that kind of work?


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## The_Don (Apr 28, 2008)

I dont think you can rent them. If you seen one they are all setup in a box truck, its a pretty big deal.


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## trailwart (Mar 20, 2004)

there are many hits with this search

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=spray+foam+kit


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## MEL (Jul 17, 2005)

Retrofoam.com in Michigan is the best


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## Lundman (Apr 27, 2007)

Go to fomo.com. Use the standard www in front of the fomo. I cannot post URL's yet.

Download their product catalog. They offer disposable foaming kits of all sizes. We used the one with twin tanks. The size of a 20 lb propane tank. We bought the slow expanding stuff rated for use by the Coast Guard for use in marine vessels. Cost about $800. The fast expanding stuff may be cheaper. They have many distributors. We bought ours at Construction Fastners in Flint. Any distributor will have to order it. Took about a week to get it. You will want to order extra tips if you use this product. Works just like you see on TV. They also have some good videos on their website.

The cheapest was is to call in a contractor. I used Sunray Insulation in Flushing MI. Cheapest by far in this area. They all spray the same stuff. If you use a FOMO product, it will be more expensive, but you can do it on your schedule. This is huge as it is tough to schedule a contractor to come up to a cabin. I do know that Sunray will travel if the job warrents ($$$) it.


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## The Nailer (Feb 7, 2000)

Thanks for the replies guys!

Lundman, I think I'll check into the website you provided. Your right trying to schedule anything up north is tough when you don't live there full time. I have a couple of questions;

How hard is it to to use? I will have to do it from my back as this is a true crawl space.

Are there a lot of fumes?

How long to cure?


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## Lundman (Apr 27, 2007)

There are some fumes, but since we used it in an open area is was not a concern for us. Call FOMO and ask for an application engineer or customer service. They were very helpful with our questions. Buy a high end respirator that can filter out the fumes. Buy two, one for your helper. Ask the application engineer what fumes come off the curing process. They told me, but I forgot. They can tell you what kind of respirator to buy.

If you get the fast curing stuff. It cures within seconds. Watch some of their videos on their web site. We used a very slow curing stuff. Took 1-2 minutes or more to cure. For your application, you want the fast curing stuff.

The FOMO system is a two part system. This means two tanks the size of 20 lb propane tanks. You will have to drag them around your crawl space. If you can, it would be good to have some adult help. I think the hose is 15' or 20' long. Ask their application engineer how long the hose is.

When you start spraying and then quit, you have either 30 or 60 seconds before your tip will clog up. I think you get a 5 pack with the purchase of the foam kit. You can buy spare tips in a 5 pack for pretty cheap. You will need spare tips. Buy spares just in case.


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## Lundman (Apr 27, 2007)

I forgot. Very easy to use. Open valves on tank. Install plastic spray tip on spray gun. Pull trigger!! 

On their web site they have a yield calculator. You can determine how much coverage you will get. You will have to do some math.

I assume you will want to spray around 1.5" or 2" thick.


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## MPT (Oct 7, 2004)

Make sure you use a respirator for organics. Also the reaction produces CO2 so some ventilation is needed even just a fan blowing fresh air in the access door. A body suit with goggles and head cover should be used with many disposable gloves.


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## MichiganFoamer (Feb 3, 2010)

We install spray foam insulation and not all foams are the same. I will not mention my company's name, as I am not trying to drum up business in this post, I am just trying to point you in the right direction. For a crawlspace you want to only use CLOSED CELL foam. Closed cell foam is waterproof, has an actual R-value of around 6.5 per inch and is very rigid. Mice and insects rarely get through it.

Open cell foam (typcially 1/2 pound) which is installed by the big advertising companies such as RetroFoam is fine for some applications, but you do NOT want to use it for metal pole barn walls or in crawlspaces as it is soft like a sponge and will hold water creating mold and moisture problems. Building codes also require that they have a vapor barrier over top as they do not prevent moisture movement.

The do-it yourself kits work fine for most projects and usually contain a lower density closed cell foam such as 1.5 or 1.7 pound foam. Normal closed cell foam that is made out of real rig is typically around 2.0 pound foam. The higher the density, the better it will hold it's R-value over time.

I would recommend that you insulate not only your rimband, but the entire crawlspace walls. You will be amazed at how much of a difference it will make. The most important place is where the wood sill meets the block wall. In some cases the block cores need to be plugged up before you install the foam.

In most cases, you can usually hire someone with a real rig to insulate a crawlspace for the same price or cheaper than you can do it yourself. Plus you get a better foam when a professional does the work. Just remember that you get what you pay for. I would suggest 2 or 3 quotes and never take the lowest price. There are a lot of ways installers can cheat you, and lowballers are the main culprits. Or if you don't have time for multiple quotes, just ask around the local area for a recommended person that does GOOD work. There are probably a dozen good foam manufacturers, but stay away from any ICYNENE dealers. Foam works great, but bad installers can give it a bad reputation very quickly. There is no other insulation that performs nearly as well.

Sorry to ramble on so much.


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## The Nailer (Feb 7, 2000)

MichiganFoamer-

Thanks for a great reply.

There is a 1/4" foam sealer between the sill plate and the top of the block and the walls have 2" foam board attached that extends below grade. What I really want is a good sealer at the rim and where the sill plate meets the block for the reasons you mentioned, to keep mice out and insulate the rim joist. I currently have 6" fiberglass stuffed in the space, but because I have engineered joists it really isn't a great fit, plus I had a red squirrel get in there this summer and he made a mess of a good share of it trying to get out. The more I investigate the more I think I may leave this to the professionals. The Do-it-yourself kits didn't seem to have a very high R-Value per inch and I was thinking I needed about 5-6" of foam to get a good R-value and that starts to get expensive pretty quick. 

Does your company do work in NE MI? If so can you send me a PM with their contact info.


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## MichiganFoamer (Feb 3, 2010)

Our company will travel anywhere in the LP of Michigan for larger projects, but for small jobs like this we pretty much just stay fairly close to the Midland area. What city are you in exactly?

If you have foam board on the crawlspace walls, you are in good shape. 5-6 inches of foam is overkill. With closed cell foam there is no advantage to installing more than 4 inches. In your situation, I would suggest 2 or 3 inches and have the foam overlap the top edge of your foam that is on the walls. As far as the sill sealer separating the wood from the block, it helps but the wind can blow right through or around it. Older houses are far worse than new ones, but they all leak.


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## The Nailer (Feb 7, 2000)

MichiganFoamer said:


> Our company will travel anywhere in the LP of Michigan for larger projects, but for small jobs like this we pretty much just stay fairly close to the Midland area. What city are you in exactly?
> 
> If you have foam board on the crawlspace walls, you are in good shape. 5-6 inches of foam is overkill. With closed cell foam there is no advantage to installing more than 4 inches. In your situation, I would suggest 2 or 3 inches and have the foam overlap the top edge of your foam that is on the walls. As far as the sill sealer separating the wood from the block, it helps but the wind can blow right through or around it. Older houses are far worse than new ones, but they all leak.


Thanks for the info that is what I needed to know. As for location I'm 11 miles north of Hillman which is quite away from Midland. I'll try to do a search in the Alpena, Gaylord or Cheboygan area and see what I come up with unless you have a recommendation up there. Thanks again for your help!


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## theknack (Sep 7, 2010)

I think it would be quicker and a better job if you have an insulation company do it. Here's a quote from an installer's website:



> *I Want To Install Icynene® Myself. Why isnt it Sold in Stores?* Good question. DIY (do it yourself) spray foam insulation might look very cool, but here are some good reasons why it should only be installed by a licensed professional:
> 
> 
> Only an Icynene® Licensed Dealer and installer are trained to spray Icynene® properly to ensure it fills every space to create a complete air barrier system.
> ...


Company: Eco Tec Insulation(can't post the link, but they do install in Michigan)

Of course they want to install it so they can charge their fee, but I don't think I would risk doing it myself personally


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

*QUALITY COATING & INSULATION
133 Surfside
Roscommon, MI 48653
Thomas Hayes
989-821-4010*


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## Grouse Hunter (Jan 23, 2000)

What can one expect to pay per square foot for 2" foam install?


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## Grouse Hunter (Jan 23, 2000)

Hey guys, 

I've got plumbing in a crawl space I want to spray foam. Any issues with spraying copper and PVC pipe? Besides the obvious of having issues if you ever need to do a repair, anything else to consider?


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