# 60lb GSP food intake?



## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

Hey guys (and gals). Quick question regarding dog weight. I know its common for people to struggle with over weight dogs...i have the oppostive issue.

I have a 3.5yo unfixed male GSP, 51lbs. Though i don't have his height numbers on hand, he is on the long leg side though his frame is not heavy. High energy, very high drive dog. I can see five ribs clearly, his spine and hip bones up top easily and even more after a few days of long hunting. He is primarily Eulenhof(sp) and Sourkraut(sp) line.

I feed him 4 cups of premium food high fat/protien blend. Two cups in the morning and two in the evening. I won't get into a food brand battle, but i can say that i am currently feeding above what this food and several others suggest for his size. During extended training days and or hunting i will up his food to about 5 cups. Tried a few different brands and elliminated the food brand as a culprit.

My dog has been cleared healthy by the vet, just will not hold weight. I know what a fit trim dog looks like and im my opinion he is even thinner than this ideal image.

I had made repeated attempts to up his food to have him put more weight on while he was younger......only result was more poo.

Now that he is a bit older and seems to be slowing a tad. During this quiet time due to deer hunting i upped his food to almost 7 cups daily to see if there is an increase in weight over the three week period. Not sure if there is a gain yet as its only been a week. I take him to work vs crate now so he can elliminate more often as needed with the increase of food.

Any other suggestions that i may try? 7 cups plus my other dog......dang i might as well pick up a number 3 dog, ahaha


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## N M Mechanical (Feb 7, 2008)

Bob I was feeding mine 7 cup per day on premium dog food then switched to native and now feed 4 per day and he gained 7lbs since nov. 1st granted he is not being trained or hunted like he was but he went from 49lbs to 56 and looking good
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## northwinsetter (Aug 1, 2011)

I had a similar situation with a setter. Instead of upping food I added a supplement to avoid excessive yard depositing. My vet suggested going to 3 feedings a day. His view was that he had a fast metabolism causing the absorption rate to be high and he therefore eliminated a lot of highly nutritious waste. It seems to be working.


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## GSP Gal (Nov 12, 2005)

What does he do during the day? Is he doing laps in his kennel? Or is he crated in the house? (Never mind, I see you are keeping him in his crate.) 

I ask, because I have a three year old male that looses weight in the fall, and a couple of winters, spent the days in the kennel outdoors. Between the cooler temps, and pacing the kennel various times thoughout the day, he is really lean. I take him into the vet for a heartworm, she is concerned about his weight. I started crating him during the day a little more in the barn, where he is not burning btu's keeping warm, and pacing. He still gets to run, but less during the day when I am not home. 

He looks fabulous, and we are on two cups a day top of the line premium food. He's 50 lbs, soaking wet.


Also- remember, just because it says "protein" it doesn't have to be broken down my meat protein and plant protein. Not all foods are created equal....


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## chewy (Mar 27, 2006)

it is better to feed once per day. you want the food in their system as long as possible to absorb the nutrients. feeding twice a day promotes bowel movements when the nutrients haven't been absorbed in the intestines. 

it's covered in the nutrition book dr Jacobs has. 


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

I'd like some info on this subject, as I have a dog that getting weight on is a problem also.

So: if I switch to once per day feeding, do I feed the combined total all at once? More/less? Also, should the switch to once per day be done at a gradual pace, or all at once? 

Thank you!


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## chewy (Mar 27, 2006)

I feed my dogs depending on the dog 2 to 4 cups a day. all at once. there are extreme circumstances I feed more than once a day. but overall once. u will find most people who have kennels with a large amount of dogs it's usually once per day. 

there is a book on dog nutrition. by a vet named Jacobs. she is in freeland. she was a nutrionist for eukenuba and wrong a book on k9 nutrition for performance dogs. you can find it on the Internet. 


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## chewy (Mar 27, 2006)

name of it is performance dog nutrition by dr jocelynn Jacobs. 





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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

What does your vet think of your dog's weight? 

Excess weight just increases the chances of injuries (see CrCL injuries)

Just because your dog is thin doesn't mean he isn't healthy or getting the nutrition he needs. Don't over think it.


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## chewy (Mar 27, 2006)

WestCoastHunter said:


> What does your vet think of your dog's weight?
> 
> Excess weight just increases the chances of injuries (see CrCL injuries)
> 
> Just because your dog is thin doesn't mean he isn't healthy or getting the nutrition he needs. Don't over think it.


yeah that. except the vet part they are usually clueless on what a dog that is in superb shape looks like. 

if your dog isn't losing muscle I wouldn't sweat it. 


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## WeimsRus (Oct 30, 2007)

What is the ratio of fat to protein in the food your feeding? I don't care what brand it is.


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## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

I think the average 60lb. dog should be doing fine on 4 cups of food a day.

My 60 lb dog gets 3 cups a day in the off season and will gain weight but he isn't getting much if any structured exercise either other than free run in a fenced yard with the other dogs.
Maybe you just have a high metabolism skinny dog. 

If you push 6 and 7 cups of food through him it never drops off any nutrient, it just gets pushed out as waste from what I understand.


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

Ever see FindTheBird's dog Rock Solid? That dog is all bone and muscle and I'll make a pretty big bet he looks skinnier than most of the "skinny" dogs written about on this board. He's also healthy as a horse and able to work all day long.

Like I said, don't over think it unless your vet is telling you to change something or you're noticing performance problems in the field.


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

Thanks for all the input guys (and gals). To answer to questions presented.

-Yes he is crated during the day. He is a ballistic high drive dog when awake or if any kind of prey has his interest. Thank god he has finally advanced to the point that if there is no stimuli around he will just relax and be calm.

-Yes the Vet thinks he is overall healthy with no medical issues. She says he looks great, she works agility collies not hunting dogs if it matters. She does identify him as thin but did not raise any concerns to me. The visibility of his bones, mainly the hips and spine is was concerns me. 

-As for his food content...without the bag in front of me it think its 28/30 or 30/32 protien fat ratio....can't recall exactly.

-I will try to move his feeding from two meals to one main meal.

Im going to try and take some detailed quality pics of him this evening.

Thanks
Bob


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## Lloydboy (Jan 25, 2008)

chewy said:


> it is better to feed once per day. you want the food in their system as long as possible to absorb the nutrients. feeding twice a day promotes bowel movements when the nutrients haven't been absorbed in the intestines.
> 
> _OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors._




What I have done is to start feeding a sled dogging food... PPP and other performance foods are usually 30/20 Protein/fat. Foods like Native Level 4 or Caribou Creek Gold run 35/25 or HIGHER. Better nutrition, usually can feed less volume (might be the same weight if you weigh your food). And I have found them to be cheaper than what I was paying for PPP.


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## Paco (Dec 18, 2006)

You have gotten some good help here. Chewy is spot on and WCH, Scott, and David gave you good info.

Dr. Jacobs clinic is in Freeland, call and have them send you that book or stop by they have some copies there. She knows performance dog nutrition.
On the lean side of the ideal by those charts, "for life" is the latest info on where you want your dogs. You may be right on.

Once a day feedings as mentioned, more than thats speeds the transit time of the digestive tract and nutrient absorbtion suffers..... equaling very high priced poop !

Another good place for info is www.gundogdoc.com he has a PHD in animal nutrition I believe and is a Vet.

Most vets I have dealt with are a little weak on performance dogs and nutrition.

I can identify with your concerns, some dogs are wired for 220 or 440 in a 110 world, I own one, burns more calories in his sleep than the others do working.

PACO

btw; I liked what I saw of your dog, and the Brit too, nice dogs.


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

Im going to transition him from his two feeding two one over this week and weekend incase it disrupts his cycle i will be around with him to let him out. I basically live in Freeland so i will check into the book that you guys are talking about.

Thanks
Bob


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

I understand the reasons for one feeding a day, but can someone comment on the information that states that one feeding a day can increases chances of bloat?

Will be purchasing my first GSP this spring, I'm curious - just want to start off the right way.


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## chewy (Mar 27, 2006)

don't feed puppies once a day. bloat isnt very common in gsps. don't feed a dog immediately after or before exercising. I always feed my dogs at night 


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

Ive had to limit water to only a bit immediately following feeding also. My GSP will eat his food and then drink a LOT of water. The food will swell, he will toss it up. Than the part my wife enjoys (not) he will eat it right back up.

Oddly my GSP has been rather picky as far as what food he can utilize as well as this weight issue.


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## Lucky Dog (Jul 4, 2004)

2ESRGR8 said:


> Me either LD but 7 cups of food a day is a pile load of food for a dog of that size. Shouldn't have to push that much to maintain his weight and not gain any.
> I'd listen to Backwoods and give that process a try.


Good point except I did not see where he said the dog loses weight on less than seven cups a day. I've got one right now that will do fine on 4 cups a day or 8 cups a day, the extra food does nothing but go right through him.

I think it would be a great idea to treat the dog for parasites, no harm can come from it. Panacur has worked for me in the past on dogs with a problem with weight gain. 

I'd still like to see some pics. If nothing else, i like looking at dog pictures.


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

Thanks for the input guys.

Ill try and get a good current picture of him now that i have a better camera. I would add that its amazing how much 2lbs have changed the look of him. I do feel he looks much better, maybe 1 or 2lbs would be ideal, but i think he looks healthy now. I feel 55lbs for him would prob be ideal. He is a GSP on the taller side, big ole' block head male. Thin chest up front but good sized haunches. Im not trying to build a fat GSP. Working to elliminate the exposed spine. Im cool with ribs and some hip. 

The pics you guys posted look great and that pretty much what he is looking like now.

Yes he has been tested for intestine parasites and has been on prevenative since i got him as a puppy. Ive pretty much ruled out parasites and got a more focused direction on this being a genetic thin dog or even a unrecognized internal issue.

Self-feeding is not really an option as I have two dogs and do not want to go this route. My dogs are crated daily so im not sure it would work anyhow. Not to mention i did a good deal of reading and the single feeding seems to best for maximizing the food.


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

Lucky Dog said:


> Good point except I did not see where he said the dog loses weight on less than seven cups a day. I've got one right now that will do fine on 4 cups a day or 8 cups a day, the extra food does nothing but go right through him.
> 
> I think it would be a great idea to treat the dog for parasites, no harm can come from it. Panacur has worked for me in the past on dogs with a problem with weight gain.
> 
> I'd still like to see some pics. If nothing else, i like looking at dog pictures.


Lucky
In the past i was feeding 2+ cups of food twice daily. Any less and yes he would drop weight. I wasn't able to see a weight increase until recently when i went up to 1.5+ per feeding more...now single feeding of 7c.

My dogs are on a routine of ivermectin(sp)

I will have to explore the panacur

Ill get some pics of him


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## BradU20 (Jan 17, 2005)

Rugergundog said:


> Yes he has been tested for intestine parasites and has been on prevenative since i got him as a puppy. Ive pretty much ruled out parasites and got a more focused direction on this being a genetic thin dog or even a unrecognized internal issue.


It was mentioned before, but often internal parasites will not show up in fecals. 
Ivermectin is not effective at killing all internal parasites.


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## RecurveRx (Jun 21, 2004)

BradU20 said:


> Ivermectin is not effective at killing all internal parasites.


The one and only reason that I still shell out the $ for Interceptor year round. Once you deal with whip worms once....


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## Back woods (Jul 30, 2003)

We do the Ivermectin once a month for heart worm prevention and then every third month I'll give a higher dose to kill hooks and rounds as well. We Panacur when needed and twice a year to the dogs that stay year round for treatment of whips and tapes need it or not.


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## kek25 (Jul 9, 2005)

I have an 8-year-old 50lb. plus setter that has been thin all his life. Tried every food known to man, all the supplements, and he is panacured twice a year (safeguard for goats; can't recall the exact k9 doseage off hand; have it written on the bottle). During hunting season his ribs show and his rear hip bones protrude despite being fed a supplement with his feed. All lab work performed when he was younger came back negative.

I feed all the dogs once a day in the morning each with their own bowl, and he is the first to his bowl and usually the first to be done eating. I feed 26/16 feed all year long except he gets a supplement (xtra bloom wate) during the hunting season. He gets 3 cups a day in the spring/summer and 4 cups a day in the fall/winter. The doc says nothing to worry about; he's just one of those dogs that doesn't gain weight. Better to be on the thin side, all other things being in check, than on the obese side.

Once hunting season is over and he puts on the 3-4 lbs. he loses during that time he looks much better, but still very thin compared to the other dogs. A couple ribs always showing, except the hip bones not so much.

I agree with Chewy. Back when I was feeding the dogs multiple times a day all it did was add to the cleanup chores. Feeding them once a day limits their voiding to once a day, and I haven't noticed any weight reduction by decreasing the schedule to once a day.

Some dogs are just pre-dispositioned to being on the thin side. I did increase this dog's feed intake for a while, but all it did was add to the waste being eliminated with no appreciable change in his appearance.


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## Josh R (Dec 4, 2010)

I curious about this feeding once a day idea.... I have a 7 month old GSP that gets 2 cups in the morning and 2 at night. She weighs about 35 lbs now and I think she looks great. You can see some ribs but no back bone unless she is in a awkward position. When can I start introducing once a day feeding and how do I go about it?

josh


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

i had a pointer male that was pretty thin. i cooked up about 1/4 lb of the cheapest hamburg and mixed it with as much dry food as he would eat.

he runs out in an acre dog pasture and is active most of the time, chasing and playing with my spayed setter female. so it took a while but he looks good going into the winter. i feed once a day at night. i'm trying to figure how anyone who has a job can feed three times a day.


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

Well finally remembered to take a pic. Caught him real quick with the phone camera.

Not sure if the lighting helps or not but you can tell his ribs are now filled in and looking good. His spine is still visible a little bit but overall he is looking good now. Again this is on 7 cups with a once a day feeding.

Sorry the pic isn't too "outdoors" unless you count the Cichlid tank as a pond ahahah.


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## Lucky Dog (Jul 4, 2004)

Rugergundog said:


> Well finally remembered to take a pic. Caught him real quick with the phone camera.
> 
> Not sure if the lighting helps or not but you can tell his ribs are now filled in and looking good. His spine is still visible a little bit but overall he is looking good now. Again this is on 7 cups with a once a day feeding.
> 
> Sorry the pic isn't too "outdoors" unless you count the Cichlid tank as a pond ahahah.



Dam fine looking dog, I wish all of mine looked as good.

I'd still recommend the panacur to make sure he does not have anu internal parasites.


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## chewy (Mar 27, 2006)

he looks perfect muscular and not fat. if he starts losing muscle I would be worried


mysignature http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1295


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

sparked by another thread, a quick update. 
Kilian has continued to do well on the one a day feedings. He gained a solid degree of size. To the extent that i was able to drop of 1.5 cup of food over a short period. Over a two week period i noticed he was dropping in size again. I went back up .5 cup and seems to be the perfect balance with the single day feeding. Solid dog now without over exposed skeleton. Ill try to get another pic.


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