# muskrat question



## brent164 (Mar 6, 2005)

For you veterans out there, how many rats are there in a den usually? I have a pond that I am trapping and was curious that if I get one out of there den entrance should I reset, or should I move on to another den? Thanks in advance.


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## SNAREMAN (Dec 10, 2006)

5 rat's per den/hut is a pretty safe guess.So yes,you should re-set the trap's.


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## Bogmaster (Dec 24, 2001)

80% of the rats can be taken without depleting future populations. So you can take 4 from each one without worrying.
Tom Olson


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## brent164 (Mar 6, 2005)

so if there is 10 dens on this pond there could be 50 rats in it? Or do i need to find the one that they are redily using? There are a lot of there dens, i would guestamate, 10 to 15.


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## Joe R. (Jan 9, 2002)

Set it up heavy. First days check should be a pretty high percentage. Second day will be about half. Third day usually isn't worth checking. How many rats are in a den varies greatly. If your dens are tightly clustered chances are there are multiple entrances to one den. I'll set every den I can find. Believe me you won't find them all. I've trapped over 100 rats from a stretch of creek and never found a den.:yikes:

Joe


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## brent164 (Mar 6, 2005)

Thats pretty impressive. This is my second year trapping rats, the first was under ice which I failed misserably! I am pretty sure I found there entrances, I walked around them until I found a run, then I ran my foot trough it twards the den and I could slide my foot into holes at the end of the run. I figured I found the entrances? I did this at the three dens I found some murky water by them! Hopefully theres a couple waiting tomarrow! 

Thanks for all the info, it all helps!


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## David G Duncan (Mar 26, 2000)

Like Joe indicates finding the entrance to a muskrat bank den is not that easy.

The true den entrances are usually in deeper water at a depth of 2' to 3' below the surface.

A lot of the runs the go up into a bank are actually going into hidden feeder or refuges and are not a true den.

Therefore, it is very difficult to determine the # of dens on a stream of stream and then use any kind of formula to calculate the population.

So set all the under water runs you find and remove the sets once the catch drops off.

If you are trapping a marsh, then you do have a pretty good idea of the muskrat population, base on the number of muskrat houses and I believe that 5 rats per normal sized house would be a good estimate.


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## brent164 (Mar 6, 2005)

So, the dens that I found are _not_ actual dens? They are about 10 -15 yards off shore, and built out of mud, twigs, and catails. The "entrances" that I think I found were about 2' deep under the water. They are running all over on the bank too. You can see the runs going into the pond, so I set a couple of blind sets with conibears, but there are so many runs, I picked the ones with murky water at the end of the trails! 

Thanks,

Brent


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## David G Duncan (Mar 26, 2000)

Brent,

It sounds to me like you are talking about what I would call a covered feeder.

During the summer and early fall in marshes, muskrats build floating mats of vegetation in protected areas where they dine on roots that they carry there. These are feeders.

Then once the weather starts to turn cold they pile up more vegetation into a small mound and hollow it out from below. There is normally two entrances to this "covered feeders" or "pushups".

Sometimes they will actually push up vegetation through a hole in the ice and create a covered feeder or pushup. The purpose of this covered feeder is to provide the muskrat with a safe place to dine after the pond freezes and also a breathing spot.

It is fairly easy to tell the difference between a muskrat house or hut, where the muskrat actually live, because a muskrat house or hut is always anywhere from 5 to 10 times larger than a covered feeder or pushup.

Does this make sense to you?


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## brent164 (Mar 6, 2005)

If I am understanding you, there should be a feeder that is much, much bigger than the rest, and that is basically the house? My sets are at these houses or feeders, that are about 2' taller than the water. Do you think they are still using these at this time? The water seemed to be murky, which is soly what I was going off of. Is there anything else I should look for tomarrow? I guess i should ask if they are usually on land or water?

Thanks, I'm enjoying reading and learning about this!


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## David G Duncan (Mar 26, 2000)

Brent,

A pile of mostly vegetation, that is over 2 foot above the water line, sounds more like a small muskrat house, rather than a covered feeder or pushup. 

Pushup are normally fairly small in size and can rely on support from submerged logs or other objects at or just under the surface of the water and surrounded by still standing cattails or other vegetation that the muskrat are feeding on.

The muskrat houses or huts are normally in the deepest water with open water around them, where all the vegetation was cut for use in building their fairly large hut. Large muskrat houses in a cattail marsh can measure 3 or 4 feet high.

The main indication on whether these rat houses and pushups are active would be the appearance of the material used to construct these houses and pushup. If it appears that the mounts of vegetation have been piled up this fall, then they are active.

The fact that you are seeing murky water at the bottom of the runs you are finding is a good indication that rats are using these runs.

So I would expect that you will have some success in catching muskrats at this location.


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## brent164 (Mar 6, 2005)

Thanks for all of the help! Wish me luck I am off to check them, and look a little closer this time!


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## brent164 (Mar 6, 2005)

Well today was a sucess! I was 1-5 on my 110 sets, it was set up on a run. I had three set up on the feeder huts, and nothing. The rat I did get had its head chewed up from mink. So, my bro-in-law set three mink boxes up around the pond. As we were walking it, we found den after den, up on the sides of the banks. You could see there footprints in the mud, and the murky water at the end of the runs. A couple of the runs were covered in poo, so i'd imagine we will have a few more tomarrow, and hell, maybe a mink or too! It was a fun morning!


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## muskrat (Oct 21, 2005)

hey you got a camera? take a few photos and post them up. Good for a lot of people to see what you are talking about.
Matt


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## brent164 (Mar 6, 2005)

I didnt bring it today because I figured I would be skunked as usual. I will bring it with me tomarrow. I am sure i will hear crap about this but my wife isn't too fond of trapping, and she is the computer gu-ru so it may take me a bit to learn how to post them. I got my first coyote the other day and was stumped on how to do it. But I will try!


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## muskrat (Oct 21, 2005)

muskrats are fun to trap, just takes a little bit just like anything else. Have you tried making a float set, there is a good thread about float sets under the trappers technique archives forum, picked up some good ideas.
Matt


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## brent164 (Mar 6, 2005)

Can you see the picture of the coyote I just posted??


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## muskrat (Oct 21, 2005)

nope, I dont have an answer either:lol::lol:
Matt


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## brent164 (Mar 6, 2005)

I got them uploaded onto my personal pictures then someone else posted it...


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## danboe (Jan 13, 2018)

Joe R. said:


> Set it up heavy. First days check should be a pretty high percentage. Second day will be about half. Third day usually isn't worth checking. How many rats are in a den varies greatly. If your dens are tightly clustered chances are there are multiple entrances to one den. I'll set every den I can find. Believe me you won't find them all. I've trapped over 100 rats from a stretch of creek and never found a den.:yikes:
> 
> Joe


Joe I had to do a crash course in trapping under the ice and was late marking the bubble trails. Finding the runs to set boards with #1s and 11o BG was a problem. Seldom had allot of great info but he suggested you where the expert so here's my question. Have you ever thought there was a pattern the rats used when they constructed the dive hole and bubble trail relative to the shape of the hut/ house? Most of the large houses have a ramp area where I suspect the can pull building material up on top the house easier this leaves a cliff like appiarence on the high side of the house? I have looked at allot of pictures and there seems to be allot of runs coming of the bottom sides of the ramp? I read on the forum if you find one trail there should be another one directly across from it does this sound right. What are your thoughts on trails coming out away from the house. Dan Boe


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