# Snare laws?????



## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

there is a topic on Michigan snare laws over on T-Man. Most are saying How they dont like the currant regs, and how can they be changed?I would like to see this subject on this site, after all this is a michigan site, Its our regs,What say you? How? Or when will this come to pass? the same time we get cat trapping back? Or the otter limit is changed, or martin, the list goes on. what will It take?


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## Dave Lyons (Jun 28, 2002)

Gil,

The otter limit has been raised to 2 in zone 2. Canine snaring forget it. Best way is to kill them in the snare. Quick fast dispatch is the key. Would really like to see mink snaring. I personally have talked to many people that would like mink snaring. Don't know why it was dropped. But look we have a extended season on muskrats. That in my opinion is a joke. 

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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Gotta start with the Natural Resource Commission.


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## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

Yes sir, thats the place.The problem being, every time snares a talked about, the nrc sticks there heads in the sand. The dnr is so afraid of being sued, they panic each time dog hunters are mentioned. Its sad. no Its pathetic.and our trapping groups, MTPCA, MMIT. someone scratches them behind the ear, and they just roll over. BUT as was mentioned we have a longer rat season


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## mvd (Apr 9, 2010)

Why are snares such taboo? Seem to me they would be a little more humane?

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## FixedBlade (Oct 14, 2002)

Gill are you gunn'in for a run at MTPCA pres position? Snare regs have been beat to death. They are never going to change unles they just abolish them altogether. which they should in their present form. I am talking dry land snaring.


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## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

FixedBlade said:


> Gill are you gunn'in for a run at MTPCA pres position? Snare regs have been beat to death. They are never going to change unles they just abolish them altogether. which they should in their present form. I am talking dry land snaring.


No sir.I have no interest in being El presidenty. IF I was to get into the politics again, I would do it with a new group, not the same ol, same ol. The groups we have now, are happy.Ya get your picture on the cover of rollin stone, and life is good.doesnt matter that the facts dont support that.And I agree with your point on dry land snares. we cant upset the hound hunters now can we. thorton mite get mad at us.


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## DIYsportsman (Dec 21, 2010)

gilgetter said:


> we cant upset the hound hunters now can we


How does private land snaring affect hound hunters, unless they are tresspassing...??


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## Bow Hunter Brandon (Jan 15, 2003)

DIYsportsman said:


> How does private land snaring affect hound hunters, unless they are tresspassing...??
> 
> 
> _OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors._


Exactly. There is no argument against going back to a 2.5" stop and allow it on private land.

heck, I can not see a reasonable argument to not allowing me to use snares here in the UP. The distance I am from any roads when i run my winter line is over 5 miles through the brush. I don't see anyone or sign of anyone where I trap. Bunny hunters and guys running cats simply are not going to be in the woods that deep in the winter snows we have.

I think Gill is on the right track. We as a group need to push the NRC for reasonable snaring regulations. The ones we have now are a joke and i don't care what the hound groups say about it they have proven before that they will take from us to gain more for themselves. If they feel that snares put their dogs in danger then there need to be new regulations put in place to protect there dogs. Maybe they need to be within 50 yards of a dog at all times. If that is hard to do I don't care!


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## DFJISH (Mar 30, 2009)

DIYsportsman said:


> How does private land snaring affect hound hunters, unless they are tresspassing...??
> _OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors._


No offense, but that comment is deserving of a great big "HUH???" Hound hunters ae THE group that opposes land snaring... PERIOD. They were responsible for the 4/1/4" *DOG STOP* rule that makes a fox impossible to catch and a coyote very likely to pull out.
*Dogs trespass.* In some cases they MIGHT BE released at a legal site(permission given) but in every instance I am aware of in my neck of the woods dogs are routinely tuned loose on a fresh track with no regard to whether they have permission to do so or not. Take fox/coyote hound hunters out of the subject and we would have almost no opposition to effective snaring for BOTH foxes and coyotes. 
The NRC has been unwilling to acknowledge that through the use of proper equipment, methods, and locations catching *a pet* in a snare would be an extremely rare event. Which brings us full circle to the subect of _trespassing_ dogs.


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## LarryA (Jun 16, 2004)

gilgetter said:


> No sir.I have no interest in being El presidenty. IF I was to get into the politics again, I would do it with a new group, not the same ol, same ol. The groups we have now, are happy.Ya get your picture on the cover of rollin stone, and life is good.doesnt matter that the facts dont support that.And I agree with your point on dry land snares. we cant upset the hound hunters now can we. thorton mite get mad at us.


I am not going to get into the snare issue right now, but as a supporting member of trapping organizations going back 35 years I think it is pretty cheap shot to make such comments regarding any of our officers. The time commitment it takes to do the job that others only scoff at is huge.

All I can say is I much more respect for individuals who are actually working on issues than someone else who refuses to make the same commitment.


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## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

I made the commitment. WAS, the NTA director, and was region 4 director. So I have been there. I have NO interest in being in a group whos only interest is to perpetuate there own existence.

Tell me larry in that 35 years, what has changed? what is better today, that 35 years ago?

Im getten old, In another 35 years I will be a picture on a wall. gone. I dont have time to waste, I am not looken to step on any toes, BUT I also think the trapping public NEEDS better.

Are we the red headed step child of the outdoor world?We should be happy with hind teet? No thanks.Id rather have nothing, as someone elses crumbs. what say you larry.


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## DIYsportsman (Dec 21, 2010)

DFJISH said:


> No offense, but that comment is deserving of a great big "HUH???" Hound hunters ae THE group that opposes land snaring... PERIOD. They were responsible for the 4/1/4" *DOG STOP* rule that makes a fox impossible to catch and a coyote very likely to pull out.
> *Dogs trespass.* In some cases they MIGHT BE released at a legal site(permission given) but in every instance I am aware of in my neck of the woods dogs are routinely tuned loose on a fresh track with no regard to whether they have permission to do so or not. Take fox/coyote hound hunters out of the subject and we would have almost no opposition to effective snaring for BOTH foxes and coyotes.
> The NRC has been unwilling to acknowledge that through the use of proper equipment, methods, and locations catching *a pet* in a snare would be an extremely rare event. Which brings us full circle to the subect of _trespassing_ dogs.


I never said that they were not the reason for the regs, all i said was if its private land, i dont see any real issue... Just perceived




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## Mister ED (Apr 3, 2006)

FixedBlade said:


> Gill are you gunn'in for a run at MTPCA pres position? Snare regs have been beat to death.


It wouldn't make a difference if Gil was pres ... or if Ronald Reagan or Charleton Heston came back from the dead and were the president. The NRC/DNRE isn't going to change what they do not want to change.



gilgetter said:


> No sir.I have no interest in being El presidenty. IF I was to get into the politics again, I would do it with a new group, not the same ol, same ol. The groups we have now, are happy.Ya get your picture on the cover of rollin stone, and life is good.doesnt matter that the facts dont support that.And I agree with your point on dry land snares. we cant upset the hound hunters now can we. thorton mite get mad at us.


Not really sure what/who pizzed in your wheeties a couple years back. New group ... IMHO that's been part of the issue ... too many groups/factions in the state.

The 'Cover of Rollin Stone' comment (if you are referring to, what we all think you are referring to) ... is a very low blow as well. Nothing will help the image of trapping more than putting in front of the public ... be it in print or from a booth at a 'sportsman's show'. And I think there could have been no better image than a young lady trapping.


LarryA said:


> I am not going to get into the snare issue right now, but as a supporting member of trapping organizations going back 35 years I think it is pretty cheap shot to make such comments regarding any of our officers. The time commitment it takes to do the job that others only scoff at is huge.
> 
> All I can say is I much more respect for individuals who are actually working on issues than someone else who refuses to make the same commitment.


Well said Larry. And thanks goes out to all those involved.


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## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

Give up before you even try.Nothing is ever gona change.thats pathetic. and the number one reason, I left.


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## magnumhntr (Aug 18, 2003)

Maybe the back door is the answer. If enough people raise enough stink about the trespassing issue, and get that amended, then the NRC wouldn't have grounds to restrict the snares. Go into the deer hunting forum and see how those guys like having trespassers on their land while deer are in season. It's all about how you play the game guys. Fighting to relax the snare regulations when the trespassing laws are written the way they are is like head butting a brick wall. But get rid of the 'reason' for the snare restrictions in the first place, and the excuses then go out the window...

I personally think a lot of the trespassing issues could be avoided if we went back to having written permission for the private lands we have been given the privilege to use... but that is a different debate for a different day...

-Chris


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## Beaverhunter2 (Jan 22, 2005)

gilgetter said:


> I made the commitment. WAS, the NTA director, and was region 4 director. So I have been there.


Gil, Did you ever have a District Meeting? I know you went to one NTA Convention as NTA Director but left early.

If you (or anyone else) is interested in making changes- your chance will occur in August 2013. That will be the end of my second term as President and I'm not planning to stand for reelection. After three years as a Director, three years as Vice President, and four years as President, I think it might be good for some new blood to take the reins. I'll still be there as a volunteer to support the new leadership.

As far as what has changed, here's a few things.

-Snaring (except under ice beaver) was illegal less than ten years ago- now we have a coyote snare (although not an effective one- I agree), and we have added open water beaver snaring. We're still working on coyote snares although in this state it's an uphill battle.

We have a two otter limit in the NLP (it was one) and a one otter limit in the SLP (it was zero).

We were able to prevent restricted access bodygripper boxes from being required on private land. If you don't think that was a hard fight you weren't there.

We have an NLP Bobcat Season and are working to expand it. BTW The NRC fought hard and spent a lot of money to get that for us.

Yes- Muskrat season was extended a month. (With the weather this year February may be the only chance for under ice trapping in SE Michigan; and the ice is pretty spooky in Alcona County, too.) 

Raccoons can now be hunted at night with a call. (I never did get a chance to try that this year.  )

We have a Trapper Education Program.

Not too may years ago, colony traps were illegal. They have since been legalized and the size limit expanded from 6"x6"x24" to 8"x8"x36".

These are a few of the items the MTPCA has made happen since I've been active in the organization. If you're not satisfied, I'd ask you where do you think you'd be without the hard work our volunteers have put into these efforts?

Some people are content to sit back and complain. Others donate time and money to try to do what they can to support, expand and develop our sports.

Which one are you?


John


BTW The results of our Members' Furbearer Regulations Survey are in the current issue of "The Trapline"- which should be in our members' mailboxes in the next few weeks. The responses we received from our members will be used by the Board to guide us on the issues to focus on during the next Furbearer Reg review cycle.


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## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

John, I have to hand it to you. give credit where its due. you can put lipstick on a pig with the best of them, well done. I have a some what differant view of what you listed. I do have one question, what color is the sky in you world?

you forgot a couple, one that sticks in my mind is traps with teeth, Had a couple boys from the UP tell me how happy they where with that gem, seemed they had the Idea they where good beaver traps, O well.


I am amazed you knew I went to marshfield, didnt see you any where around, must have just missed you.

As for which one I am. Im the one thats going to keep asken questions. what I will not do is give money or time to people who give up before the fight even starts.

with a few more victories like you listed, we will be down to catching crickets and fireflys. with that Im gone.


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## lang49 (Aug 1, 2005)

Is anyone having success with cubby boxes on public land that are compliant with the new regulations? I'm not.

I wrote letters to all the NRC members prior to those rules being adopted. I really feel like the MTPCA dropped the ball on that one.


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## magnumhntr (Aug 18, 2003)

gilgetter said:


> John, I have to hand it to you. give credit where its due. you can put lipstick on a pig with the best of them, well done. I have a some what differant view of what you listed. I do have one question, what color is the sky in you world?
> 
> you forgot a couple, one that sticks in my mind is traps with teeth, Had a couple boys from the UP tell me how happy they where with that gem, seemed they had the Idea they where good beaver traps, O well.
> 
> ...


Pretty harsh if you ask me. Also pretty easy to sit behind a computer and pass judgement on someone who has volunteered their time to stand up publicly to defend our sport. The way you act is as if we as trappers don't get our way 100%, then it was a failure. The fact of the matter is that there needs to be constant diligence on our part to protect the sport we love so well.Nobody can address every issue. Considering all of these guys are volunteers, and have lives outside of trapping, I think they have done pretty darn well. I think every trapper wants the snaring laws changed, but we aren't the ones making policy. So I ask, besides belittling the man, what have you done lately to try and make a difference? What have you done to try and get the laws changed, seeing as you think our state organization is doing such a poor job. What have you brought to the table? 

-Chris


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