# still have baiting going on!!



## Borderlander (Sep 27, 2016)

DirtySteve said:


> I can almost gurantee you that you have neighbors that arent abiding by some laws. Laws are a funny thing. We all have our own interpretation which ones are important. My guess is if you neighbors that are blatantly ignoring the law they have always been doing so. Worrying about others isnt going to help your success. Chances are every big buck in the area is avoiding your neighbors bait pile......or atleast smart enough to circle downwind of him every night.
> 
> Worrying about how many times my neighbor races to work over the speed limit isnt going to affect my driving record.


I would again agree with you. I suppose that my frustration results from the fact that whether or not we agree that there is an advantage for those who bait, I believe we can all agree to this point: Baiting changes deer movement. Whether it makes them more nocturnal, avoid bait piles or ravenously attack bait piles- deer behavior changes when you add new variables to their environment. I for one wish that there was absolutely no baiting and that everyone HAD to abide by that restriction. At least then we would have deer moving within natural behavioral patterns.


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## Scadsobees (Sep 21, 2006)

Whether baiting or snagging, neither of them are banned in order to make it fair for other hunters.

When the snagging laws were passed, most of the salmon that we planted are going to die without offspring.

Deer baiting was only banned because of CWD fears.

I get passed all the time on the highway when I'm driving the speed limit.

But it's the law, like it or not, and we obey it. And there's always plenty who won't. And I still complain about the jackwagons flying by at 20 miles an hour over.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Borderlander said:


> I would again agree with you. I suppose that my frustration results from the fact that whether or not we agree that there is an advantage for those who bait, I believe we can all agree to this point: Baiting changes deer movement. Whether it makes them more nocturnal, avoid bait piles or ravenously attack bait piles- deer behavior changes when you add new variables to their environment. I for one wish that there was absolutely no baiting and that everyone HAD to abide by that restriction. At least then we would have deer moving within natural behavioral patterns.


I think baiting can change some deer movements. I have seen it not work though too. Anyone who has ever had a bear take over a bait pile can attest to how skiddish it can make deer in an area. 

For about decade I hunted a hay field that had a stand in the corner that a neighbor hunted. He baited it heavily and I hunted the hayfield edge downwind of several runs that came out into the hayfield on the opposite side. The deer would pop out of the woods near me and head towards his bait. The yearlings and fawns often ran right to him. The big ones held back coming out a bit later and always circled around downwind of him. They rarely got within shooting distance of him in his stand. It did affect me some if he wasnt hunting. The deer would approach his area when he wasnt out there so I guess he may have affected my hunting on those days. I had far more opportunities than he did at nice deer over that decade. He shot one deer that I would have considered taking.


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## Martian (Apr 28, 2011)

its all true, selling bait is not against the law it can be circumvented as animal food. We know it is bait, but,,,. Also years previous, my wife cans carrots, and a $5 bag of carrots, #50, is a boat load more from the store. However, baiting , at least this year is illegal, don't do it


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Trophy Specialist said:


> My guess is that with legislation ongoing to legalize baiting that would completely take baiting out of the DNRs control, and with license sales tanking, they will not be chasing baiters much.


I hear people mention this from time to time. Is the legislation actually going anywhere or is it just stalled? I would have to guess stalled since we are approaching nov and we still have a bait ban.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Of course there is still baiting going on, just like there is still other kinds of poaching going on.


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## micooner (Dec 20, 2003)

Read the dnr law reports. The last ones ran to October 5? They had at least 3 ticketed for baiting and I just skimmed thru them.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

micooner said:


> Read the dnr law reports. The last ones ran to October 5? They had at least 3 ticketed for baiting and I just skimmed thru them.


Latest ran thru 10/16 and included 7 bait citations.


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

I dont think baiting will curtail the spread of disease, but I will follow the regulations.


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## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

Spartan88 said:


> I dont think baiting will curtail the spread of disease, but I will follow the regulations.


I'm no expert. Maybe you are. What do you base this on? The folks that put the ban into place did so because scientists, vets, and deer behavior experts thought this was part of the puzzle. This is something that, IMO, plagues our society - there's no respect given to experts. I say, listen to the experts. They have more experience than you or I (at least I assume... If you are an expert in the spread of CWD, my apologies)

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Macs13 said:


> I'm no expert. Maybe you are. What do you base this on? The folks that put the ban into place did so because scientists, vets, and deer behavior experts thought this was part of the puzzle. This is something that, IMO, plagues our society - there's no respect given to experts. I say, listen to the experts. They have more experience than you or I (at least I assume... If you are an expert in the spread of CWD, my apologies)
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


These are the same people (the DNR) that were encouraging planting autumn olive and now they have it on the invasive species list.


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

Macs13 said:


> I'm no expert. Maybe you are. What do you base this on? The folks that put the ban into place did so because scientists, vets, and deer behavior experts thought this was part of the puzzle. This is something that, IMO, plagues our society - there's no respect given to experts. I say, listen to the experts. They have more experience than you or I (at least I assume... If you are an expert in the spread of CWD, my apologies)
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


I 100% agree we should listen to the experts. The experts dont know enough about CWD to offer anything other than speculation on the bait issue. 

I hunt DMU 452, havent baited since I started hunting that unit. The new bait ban means nothing to me or my hunting approach. I hunt over scrapes in oaks and I see deer.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

The legislation probably won't advance unless license sales drop more than "normal" after this season. The fact that we are dropping at all though and that drop is accepted as normal is troubling to me though.


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## micooner (Dec 20, 2003)

I find it kinda sad and alarming that scientists, biologists and other professionals are all susceptible to the fake news world attitude that permeates society today. For some reason the motor city madman and one fenced deer ranch owner has more knowledge and experience that outweighs scientists.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

micooner said:


> I find it kinda sad and alarming that scientists, biologists and other professionals are all susceptible to the fake news world attitude that permeates society today. For some reason the motor city madman and one fenced deer ranch owner has more knowledge and experience that outweighs scientists.


Combine Scientific realism with anti-realism (and which view reflects what is actually being seen by hunters?) in any one regulation.
Is it possible?


[Science aims to give a literally true account of the world.
To accept a theory is to believe it is (approximately) true.
There is a determinate mind-independent and language-independent world.
Theories are literally true (when they are) partly because their concepts “latch on to” or correspond to real properties (natural kinds, and the like) that causally underpin successful usage of the concepts.
The progress of science asymptotically converges on a true account.]
What true account is baiting being causation of C.W.D. quoted under?
Or alternatively , what true account disproves baiting as being causative?
The "science" says may or might or could.

What have you seen?
Has it been anything sad ,fake , or alarming on a baited site? If not, where does your perception/feeling of sad ,fake and alarming come from?


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

Macs13 said:


> The same way fly fishermen are at a disadvantage to snaggers - fewer fish in the river for those following the laws because of illegal actions of others. I can't shoot the buck while I'm stalk hunting if my neighbor shot him yesterday over his bait pile.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Must be you have read a lot on here. Bucks don't go to a bait pile


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

Ever hear of fatal insomnia in humans ? It’s a folded prion disease in humans discovered in the early 90s no cure and it’s hereditary .Top scientist have studied it with no answers to date . This prion stuff is way beyond what we know today hopefully someone will unlock the answers someday ... until then we are just grasping at straws .


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## micooner (Dec 20, 2003)

Let me be perfectly clear I don't care if you or anyone else baits. Its against the law so I won't. I'm just sick and tired of the term "fakenews". It doesn't matter what it concerns. Just roll out a famous person to support or deride the theory. Doesn't matter whether it's cwd, Erie algae bloom or climate change. I'll just keep following the regulations.


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## feedinggrounds (Jul 21, 2009)

I know for a fact many deer watchers that do not hunt are placing feed. At least that is what the guy told me, loading carrot and beets in his truck. Oh well, not my concern.


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

I was thinking the other day. Remember years ago the KILROY WAS HERE signs. The one with 2 eyes and a big nose looking over a fence. Maybe someone should have some signs made up with this on them so the ones worried about baiting could leave one on the bait piles they find. I have better things to do than look for someones bait pile


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

If you know people are breaking the law call the RAP line and your local officers have to check it out.


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## poz (Nov 12, 2004)

Macs13 said:


> Um. Right.
> 
> Snagging is illegal. Baiting is illegal.
> 
> ...


Can't the same be said that non fly fishermen get the short end of the stick. I have one of the best stretches of river by me that is flys only. I can't fish it because I don't fly fish. So I get the short end of the stick. 
Also if I hunt state land, and now I can't bait, but the guy who borders the state land has food plots on his private land, he has a better advantage because I can't put a food plot on state land. So the state land hunter gets the short end of the stick. 
That's the problem no one cares who gets the shortend of the stick as long as it doesn't effect them. Your hunting and fishing opportunities may cause someone else to get the short end of the stick.


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## june bugger (Oct 28, 2015)

life gets so much better when you quit worrying what the neighbors are doing


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

june bugger said:


> life gets so much better when you quit worrying what the neighbors are doing


Amen


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

skipper34 said:


> I can't figure out why anyone would defy the law just to hunt deer. Hunting without bait is not difficult.


Nor is allowing one group of people to do the same exact thing that another group of people are still allowed to do. If they wish to do so. 

Sent from my E6810 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## 03a3 (Sep 4, 2008)

Timberdoodle2 said:


> the local retailers ares selling it regularly and you can see residents selling it as well along the road. has anyone heard of anyone getting ticketed for doing it. or are the ones who abide by the laws getting the short end of the stick..?


I watch the piles of bate go down real fast at the gas stations and it effects everyone around us who are playing by the rules. The tree farm across the road from me are baiting and have block kill permits and shot 20 deer off the farm last year and it really shows this year I almost think about quitting deer hunting. The deer population has gone to nothing because of this crap.


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## BulldogOutlander (Oct 1, 2019)

block permits or not, they can't use bait.. report them


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## oaksrus (Aug 28, 2015)

Went bird hunting in one of my favorite spots, 80 acre parcel. I came across 4 tree stands, 4 cameras and three illegal baits. Stood in front of the cameras holding up the bait. Went back through the same area a few days later, two stands gone and no bait on the ground. Imagine that...


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## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

I was squirrel hunting last weekend and stumbled into a small food plot. I couldn't believe the DNR would allow baiting like this. It is the same right? 

I'll have to get a picture next time I'm there. The tree rats were scarce and I had to keep moving...


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

oaksrus said:


> Went bird hunting in one of my favorite spots, 80 acre parcel. I came across 4 tree stands, 4 cameras and three illegal baits. Stood in front of the cameras holding up the bait. Went back through the same area a few days later, two stands gone and no bait on the ground. Imagine that...


Already filled their tags


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## MossyHorns (Apr 14, 2011)

03a3 said:


> I watch the piles of bate go down real fast at the gas stations and it effects everyone around us who are playing by the rules. The tree farm across the road from me are baiting and have block kill permits and shot 20 deer off the farm last year and it really shows this year I almost think about quitting deer hunting. The deer population has gone to nothing because of this crap.


Maybe this is why the bait is going down fast at the gas station? Just saw it on FB.
https://www.facebook.com/100000915786555/posts/3364437123596781/


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## Duckiller (Mar 26, 2010)

I started deer huntig in the late 50's. At that time when we threw our apple cores from lunch on the ground were worried about getting cited for baiting. Move away in '65. Have been back a few time visiting relatives and deer hunting. When did "hunters" get the attitude that they have a god given right to bait?


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## Justin (Feb 21, 2005)

Duckiller said:


> I started deer huntig in the late 50's. At that time when we threw our apple cores from lunch on the ground were worried about getting cited for baiting. Move away in '65. Have been back a few time visiting relatives and deer hunting. When did "hunters" get the attitude that they have a god given right to bait?


Probably about the time they discovered fire.


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## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

poz said:


> Can't the same be said that non fly fishermen get the short end of the stick. I have one of the best stretches of river by me that is flys only. I can't fish it because I don't fly fish. So I get the short end of the stick.
> Also if I hunt state land, and now I can't bait, but the guy who borders the state land has food plots on his private land, he has a better advantage because I can't put a food plot on state land. So the state land hunter gets the short end of the stick.
> That's the problem no one cares who gets the shortend of the stick as long as it doesn't effect them. Your hunting and fishing opportunities may cause someone else to get the short end of the stick.


I believe in enjoying something that you've earned. The private land owner bought that land, pays taxes on it, and then put in the effort to plant and tend a food plot! He has earned greater odds. The same is true of fly fisherman in the example - it's a much more difficult sport. He's earning that privilege. I'd say that it's akin to bow season. We're giving the privilege of extra hunting time because it's a much more difficult way to take a deer. 

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## Get'nLucky (Oct 30, 2011)

I really don’t care what the regs are.....However until they start actually aggressively enforcing whatever regs they have it wont make any difference. 7 baiting tickets??? Ohh tough stuff, not even one per officer..


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## Whitetail_hunter (Mar 14, 2012)

Funny thread, the flossing/baiting comparison is hilarious.


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## poz (Nov 12, 2004)

Macs13 said:


> I believe in enjoying something that you've earned. The private land owner bought that land, pays taxes on it, and then put in the effort to plant and tend a food plot! He has earned greater odds. The same is true of fly fisherman in the example - it's a much more difficult sport. He's earning that privilege. I'd say that it's akin to bow season. We're giving the privilege of extra hunting time because it's a much more difficult way to take a deer.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Bull, tax dollars and hunting licenses pay for that public land. The deer are owned by that same public. Just like the guy who owns private land. Under your logic since I own land I should be able to shoot more deer because I'm privileged. You chose to increase your habitat, no one forces you. That's your choice is all yours and it will effect your neighbors hunting 
Bow hunting and fly fishing is a choice. I bow hunt. But that is my choice. If I choose to do something with a different method I shouldn't be rewarded for it. By giving me exclusive seasons or fishing spots.


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

Duckiller said:


> I started deer huntig in the late 50's. At that time when we threw our apple cores from lunch on the ground were worried about getting cited for baiting. Move away in '65. Have been back a few time visiting relatives and deer hunting. When did "hunters" get the attitude that they have a god given right to bait?


1980


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## Birddogm33 (Nov 9, 2007)

It's all Trumps fault......


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## trucker3573 (Aug 29, 2010)

Yawn...sick of reading the dumb advantage vs disadvantage argument. How about the fact that it spreads disease possibly. Isnt that the point of the law? Seems that should be the focus rather than your neighbor changing deer patterns. If the population is severely impacted by disease guess what, you both will be at a disadvantage. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## feedinggrounds (Jul 21, 2009)

Radar420 said:


> The deer population in the UP is so low that most DMUs don't have antlerless tags and they even removed the antlerless option on the archery combo regs.
> 
> In the LP the population is so robust that there are plentiful antlerless opportunities, discounted antlerless permits in some areas, and even free permits in CWD areas and people still won't kill enough.


I wouldn't waste a $1.00 bullet or $12.00 bolt and broadhead in a CWD zone. drive to head drop off point, then store unprocessed carcass while waiting for results.


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## feedinggrounds (Jul 21, 2009)

skipper34 said:


> Yes I remember what I said for the last 6 months. Those who were baiting in the area that we hunt were indeed slobs. They were running their ATV's in an area which is restricted to ATV use, they were dumping copious amounts of bait at a time, they were leaving their bait bags as trash in the woods, and yes the deer became nocturnal in short order. That was last season and the season before. And yes we did report them to the local CO. One so-called hunter left a trail of empty beer cans all the way to his ladder stand, where we found at least a case of empty cans along with a huge pile of beets. Thankfully that particular group was not there this year. But as for the lack of deer sightings, our camp was not the only camp that experienced an almost complete shut-down of deer movement. I don't know if it was a combination of full moon, high wind, or the cold snap that happened the week of gun season. Sometimes there are conditions that shut the deer movement down. This year baiting was not one of those conditions. We hunt in a low-pressure area of public land. Furthermore, we are hunting in an area of low deer density. Any deer that is taken in our hunting area is well earned. That's exactly how we like it.


Low hunting pressure?....hate to see what high pressure looks like in that area.


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## kstout (Dec 26, 2005)

poz said:


> Doesn't make sense, under your logic the DNR is saying "hey let's prevent it from spreading in the lower because we believe it spreads the disease so we need to get ahead of it so it doesn't spread to the non cwd counties, but let's let it spread in the upper, by letting them use bait, and then we will ban it. " seems from your comments the DNR wants it to spread in the U.P .


Makes perfect sense. The DNR suspected the CWD here in Mecosta county was an isolated case in penned deer. When further testing revealed they were wrong the baiting ban was expanded. The bait suppliers, and growers whined and cried because they had already planted seed with the expectation of selling bait, so it didn't go peninsula wide when it was expanded. They gave a years notice. They suspect the UP case was an isolated incident also, so if further testing reveals they were wrong, the baiting ban will be expanded there as well.


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## skipper34 (Oct 13, 2005)

feedinggrounds said:


> Low hunting pressure?....hate to see what high pressure looks like in that area.


Yes, low hunting pressure. Low deer numbers usually equates to low hunting pressure. I prefer to hunt a low density deer area which means not having to put up with other hunters. Yes it sounds selfish but oh well.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

feedinggrounds said:


> I wouldn't waste a $1.00 bullet or $12.00 bolt and broadhead in a CWD zone. drive to head drop off point, then store unprocessed carcass while waiting for results.


"then store unprocessed carcass while waiting for results." 
Do you know of someone who actually did this ? Not many would have the refrigeration space available. I realize that Skidway Lake is not close to the CWD zone so you probably have no worries currently about wasting a bolt or bullet on a deer. Many of us in the core area continue to hunt as we have hunted in the past. Some of us have all of our deer tested, some chose to not bother.

L & O


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## Martian (Apr 28, 2011)

in the op " people are still baiting" . I bait, but choose to follow the law this year I did not bait. What I think you find is shinning is illegal, people will still shine, shooting before or after hours is illegal , it will still happen, maybe even riffles in shotgun area, and so on. I like to believe the number of legal and ethical hunters are in the 90 % range. I don't adhere to laws are meant to be broken, I do adhere to 100% of people out there will follow the law, Otherwise we would have laws, but no police or dnr


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## Martian (Apr 28, 2011)

haha , as a matter of fact, I was coming home from an evening hunt, and wanted to buy some shell corn that I seen at a gas station. but because of being in full camo, I would surely look like a poacher. I also spear pike, and have found shell corn is about the cheapest, and easiest thing to put on the bottom to help highlight the fish, so I told my wife, I would wait until I was dressed differently lol


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

A retired DNR officer friend of mine said the last time they banned baiting they just made a bunch of violators. Same thing this time.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

Martian said:


> haha , as a matter of fact, I was coming home from an evening hunt, and wanted to buy some shell corn that I seen at a gas station. but because of being in full camo, I would surely look like a poacher. I also spear pike, and have found shell corn is about the cheapest, and easiest thing to put on the bottom to help highlight the fish, so I told my wife, I would wait until I was dressed differently lol


First thing I've learned on here kn a while. I may have to try that this winter.


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

Trophy Specialist said:


> First thing I've learned on here kn a while. I may have to try that this winter.


The white beans work good to. That is what we use to use. Some used the bottle caps on the old style bottles but we had better ethics than that. We use t say instead of dying from a rusty cap they would eat the beans and fart themselves t death


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## Martian (Apr 28, 2011)

Trophy Specialist said:


> First thing I've learned on here kn a while. I may have to try that this winter.


yeah it works great I carry enough in a gator aid bottle, if it is kept dry , will last forever, and I even had take about a 4 ft. length of 3/4 in. PVC pipe, and you could fill the pipe up and put the pipe under the ice shelf and shoot it our a little farther, in a matter of time though , I didn't do it any more., but works great and is the cheapest thing I have ever found


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## BulldogOutlander (Oct 1, 2019)

big buck 75 said:


> * Personally I don't bait but have a food plot* so I am ok with the bait ban just don't think it is fair for some to bait and others don't.


I'm sorry, but if you have a food plot, you are baiting, just "legally".. Baiting is done for the sole purpose of bringing in animals to see/shoot. Planting a food plot is done for the sole purpose of bringing in animals to see/shoot. Thus it's still baiting


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

So if I am watching a hay field, corn field, or some oak trees I'm baiting. I must be baiting right now because there's deer feeding in my shooting lanes .


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## poz (Nov 12, 2004)

Martin Looker said:


> So if I am watching a hay field, corn field, or some oak trees I'm baiting. I must be baiting right now because there's deer feeding in my shooting lanes .


 No you're not legally baiting but you have to ask yourself why did you put your stand in that location. Is it because deer are coming to a food source? I have a couple stands on a cornfield, they're there because I know the deer are going to come and eat there. So yes I am hunting over a bait source.


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## Martian (Apr 28, 2011)

This is a slippery slope, and some could say "I cannot spread bait for the purpose of viewing or luring in something to shoot" , So,I will go out by 60 acres, buy some logging equipment, buy farm equipment to till, plant, weed , fertilize, " for the purpose of viewing,or luring in something to shoot" or then there is the other guy, who is saying so I can't buy a bag of apples? If votes come with money generated where is the apple buyers power?, or, if during the rut, I put a decoy, estrus urine , ( which I do), I think by definition, I am baiting. If I put plastic apples ( The kind usually as a centerpiece on a table), and spray the area with apple juice,
( which I have done but unsuccessfully), am I baiting? If a girl goes to a bar, short skirt, tight top, , oh wait got off point,lol I have baited a lot. I hunt private land that is 4 acres this year I did not, it is the law. but 'bait" by definition is as stated a slippery slope. What I do , and will continue to do is follow the law. just a point of view


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## Martian (Apr 28, 2011)

Scout 2 said:


> The white beans work good to. That is what we use to use. Some used the bottle caps on the old style bottles but we had better ethics than that. We use t say instead of dying from a rusty cap they would eat the beans and fart themselves t death


we used beans as well 2lb bag $3, or a 40 lb. bag of corn $5


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

Martian said:


> we used beans as well 2lb bag $3, or a 40 lb. bag of corn $5


Ours were cheaper as my dad raised them. But it did not really take that many to lighten things up and most of the lakes we speard were quite clear


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## Martian (Apr 28, 2011)

nice


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## MichMatt (Oct 24, 2008)

A little late to chime in, but a deer I shot Nov 11 in the manistee NF had corn in its belly. Now as best I can tell there are no corn fields nearby. Nearly - meaning at least over 5 miles to the nearest field. 

So you dont have to tell me where that deer found corn. 

While I would use bait when legal, when not legal i don't use it. 

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## 22 Chuck (Feb 2, 2006)

Kinda like in my subdivison.

Cant get the sheriff to ticket the 35+ drivers (posted 25) cause they are voters and he might get the boot.

OR the 8 or 10 yo that shoots a 10 pointer in the youth season.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

CL-Lewiston said:


> OR the 8 or 10 yo that shoots a 10 pointer in the youth season.


What's wrong with that?


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

That was probably his deer.


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## ridgewalker (Jun 24, 2008)

MichMatt said:


> A little late to chime in, but a deer I shot Nov 11 in the manistee NF had corn in its belly. Now as best I can tell there are no corn fields nearby. Nearly - meaning at least over 5 miles to the nearest field.
> 
> So you dont have to tell me where that deer found corn.
> 
> ...


DNR Food Plot!


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## Lazy-J (Apr 11, 2019)

Shoeman said:


> Still lots of berry pickers unaware of the ban. Prime example my non-hunting neighbor and his cabin


Who are you calling the " berry pickers " interesting subject...ignorance is no excuse. Perhaps your non hunting neighbor just does not care about current law.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Totally unaware


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## Jimbos (Nov 21, 2000)

sureshot006 said:


> The part where you said bait was a non-factor. My bad if that was a poor assumption.
> 
> Looking back on the last few seasons observations, we kind of saw this one coming. Couple years of bad fawn crops. But that's always tough to go on because maybe they'll disperse from some other more concentrated area.


In your opinion what caused the poor fawn crop?
Weather, predators?

Without rehashing everything, I had 3 cameras out on my 26 acres in historically productive areas since the crack of spring and from what I could tell, all I had was one doe with twins showing up, maybe one other fawn and that was it, while it was buck central most all year.


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## Timberdoodle2 (Jan 6, 2015)

on a 160 acre piece i only had the most at 6 does and fawns on 5 cameras running from august till the mid november,, and the dnr decided to lessen the antler requirements and allow gun hunting requirement in muzzle loader season and also increase the number of landowner permits to ten per person.. so next year if we see any at all it will be a miracle


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Timberdoodle2 said:


> on a 160 acre piece i only had the most at 6 does and fawns on 5 cameras running from august till the mid november,, and the dnr decided to lessen the antler requirements and allow gun hunting requirement in muzzle loader season and also increase the number of landowner permits to ten per person.. so next year if we see any at all it will be a miracle


How many CWD positives in your township over the past 3 years ?

L & O


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## Timberdoodle2 (Jan 6, 2015)

0 they said we were close to eaton county so grouped us up in the cwd area, barry county L&O


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Jimbos said:


> In your opinion what caused the poor fawn crop?
> Weather, predators?
> 
> Without rehashing everything, I had 3 cameras out on my 26 acres in historically productive areas since the crack of spring and from what I could tell, all I had was one doe with twins showing up, maybe one other fawn and that was it, while it was buck central most all year.


I have no idea what caused it to be honest. Had more yotes around than ever this year and had a bunch of fawns. Its up and down, but could be localized sometimes giving an illusion of few fawns.


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## Jimbos (Nov 21, 2000)

sureshot006 said:


> I have no idea what caused it to be honest. Had more yotes around than ever this year and had a bunch of fawns. Its up and down, but could be localized sometimes giving an illusion of few fawns.


I was just wondering what you thought.
We had 150 inches of snow last year which was 30 above normal along with a late spring. So I was leaning towards that, then after hearing yotes all year and seeing one in daylight a month ago, I'm not so sure now.
I dump loads of fish carcasses on the far side of my property throughout the year, I think that is going to change as a start.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Jimbos said:


> I was just wondering what you thought.
> We had 150 inches of snow last year which was 30 above normal along with a late spring. So I was leaning towards that, then after hearing yotes all year and seeing one in daylight a month ago, I'm not so sure now.
> I dump loads of fish carcasses on the far side of my property throughout the year, I think that is going to change as a start.


I thought the long winter would have caused some damage too. I just didn't notice anything but the fawns appearing to be a little late born. Not abnormal though.

I should just give up trying to assign cause to how each season goes. Too darn many variables!


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

Just chalk it up to Mother nature. She does what she wants when she wants.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Timberdoodle2 said:


> 0 they said we were close to eaton county so grouped us up in the cwd area, barry county.


Ouch. And you're not close to a CWD case currently identified by the DNR. Posting a link with a map so anyone interested can view your location and know CWD cases.
https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-350-79136_79608_90516_90536-501527--,00.html

L & O


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## Timberdoodle2 (Jan 6, 2015)

yeah they didnt help the situtaion when EHD showed up in our area,, still had booku doe tags after a lot of folks were seeing dead deer every where we had over a hundred in our close neighborhood 4 square miles


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Lazy-J said:


> Who are you calling the " berry pickers " interesting subject...ignorance is no excuse. Perhaps your non hunting neighbor just does not care about current law.


Now that I have a moment 

He is far from a sportsman, but enjoys the outdoors. Short of reading the hunting guide and/or a website such as this, or the local paper in Lake City he could very well be uninformed.

Coverage in the news down here (S/E) was very limited and mostly pertained to hunting over bait. 

He enjoys watching wildlife. It wasn't until October when asked what he does all day when at his cabin. 

I'm sure he's not the only non-hunter that throws out some corn for the turkeys, squirrel and deer without realizing he's breaking the law. 

Perhaps a notice at the supplier of said bait stating the illegality of its use... Right! 

Yes, a berry picker that in his mind was helping wildlife and enjoying the sightings


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## Lazy-J (Apr 11, 2019)

Shoeman said:


> Now that I have a moment
> 
> He is far from a sportsman, but enjoys the outdoors. Short of reading the hunting guide and/or a website such as this, or the local paper in Lake City he could very well be uninformed.
> 
> ...


So, to answer my question....I assume that a berry picker is someone who lives downstate & ownes property or a cabin in northern mi. Sounds like you may be calling the kettle a bit blackish. If I was asked by a neighbor what I did all day at my camp in the U.P. my answer would be...what ever the ###K I want! I own the property & I pay the tax's.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Lazy-J said:


> So, to answer my question....I assume that a berry picker is someone who lives downstate & ownes property or a cabin in northern mi. Sounds like you may be calling the kettle a bit blackish. If I was asked by a neighbor what I did all day at my camp in the U.P. my answer would be...what ever the ###K I want! I own the property & I pay the tax's.



Don't overthink it and get all abrasive. To me a berry picker could be a tourist or a flatlander. It's just a term! What the hell is the difference? He's not a sportsman... therefore....

My god, you read way too much into it!


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## Lazy-J (Apr 11, 2019)

Shoeman said:


> Don't overthink it and get all abrasive. To me a berry picker could be a tourist or a flatlander. It's just a term! What the hell is the difference? He's not a sportsman... therefore....
> 
> My god, you read way too much into it!


Just calling it as I see it. Good luck with your neighbor.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

He's my neighbor at work. I was only educating him about his practices at his cabin.

Might have saved someone's hunt or him a ticket


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Berry pickers = trunk slammers = flat landers = fudgies = trolls....................


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## BulldogOutlander (Oct 1, 2019)

FREEPOP said:


> Berry pickers = trunk slammers = flat landers = fudgies = trolls....................


i've heard of all of those but trunk slammers lol

I'm a troll and love every second of it  However i love me some true Yooper Pasties


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

BulldogOutlander said:


> i've heard of all of those but trunk slammers lol
> 
> I'm a troll and love every second of it  However i love me some true Yooper Pasties


First heard it from my stepfather. Afterward I noticed how many times the neighbors came out to get something else out of the vehicle and it was quickly evident that it is an appropriate name.


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