# Who's helping out the southern Michigan deer herd?



## Chromelander (Oct 1, 2011)

More snow and cold temps than i've ever seen has me worried about how many deer will make it threw the winter. Will hinge cutting do any long term help? Corn is to expensive. What are you guys doing? Or do nothing?

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## phensway (Nov 30, 2004)

I just started helping them again. I might try a little bit of hay to save some coin. Hinge cutting will help. I've noticed a lot of deer browsing on shrubs in peoples yards


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## UnluckyOne (Nov 17, 2012)

Over Christmas I made two gravity feeders and recently bought 200 lbs of corn from the local farmer that I use all season. He gives me a killer deal, $15/per 100lbs. Only problem....I haven't braved the cold to get them out there...


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

I killed three does last season, and my guests killed another six.

That leaves more good browse for the rest of 'em.

Habitat practices have significantly increased available browse.

I'm sure they're digging through the snow to get at the food I planted for them also.

Wouldn't mind seeing a good thaw. Visited my farm yesterday and stomped around for a bit. I have not seen sustained snow depth like this in the 18+ years I've owned it.


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## deer sluger (Jan 22, 2013)

Chromelander said:


> More snow and cold temps than i've ever seen has me worried about how many deer will make it threw the winter. Will hinge cutting do any long term help? Corn is to expensive. What are you guys doing? Or do nothing?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Corns cheap 393market close today .we took the snow blower out to the hay field and uncovers them a spot to eat.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

deer sluger said:


> Corns cheap 393market close today
> .......


Looks like $4.43 at the close today. About 8 cents a pound. 

I cut the tops off of the white cedars on my property. Takes 2-3 to grow back so I rotate trees each year. Smaller group feeding on the tops this year for some reason.

L & O


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

I don't normally feed during the winter, but this winter has been especially tough. Have been putting out corn for a couple weeks. Put out deer pellets, apples and corn today. Had 10 deer behind the house this evening.

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## RiverBelle (Mar 21, 2009)

I been taking 6 gallons of corn out to the bush every week. Sunday, I had another idea, my Neighbors tree, still hadapples, still hanging, (and red/frozen). I picked 15 gallons/ and took them out as well. Ill be they eat on them, even if frozen.


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## deer sluger (Jan 22, 2013)

Liver and Onions said:


> Looks like $4.43 at the close today. About 8 cents a pound.
> 
> I cut the tops off of the white cedars on my property. Takes 2-3 to grow back so I rotate trees each year. Smaller group feeding on the tops this year for some reason.
> 
> L & O


You must be putting in the basis


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

deer sluger said:


> You must be putting in the basis


Yep. $4.03 without.


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## deer sluger (Jan 22, 2013)

Liver and Onions said:


> Yep. $4.03 without.


Thought so are local coop is 49 still to cheap unless you got beef cattel or deer to feed


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## hartman756 (Nov 21, 2008)

Just as a heads up....here is a post from another thread along the same lines. 




Originally Posted by *QDMAMAN*  
_In 18 years I've supplimented twice (2 winters), this has been the most extensive.
I'm confident that I could feed 3 times as much and it would all be consumed._
_
_
_---------------------------------------------------------------------------------_
Isn't that illegal?

Right from the DNR web site....

What is the Difference Between Supplemental Feeding and Baiting?

"Baiting" is defined as putting out food materials for wildlife to attract, lure, or entice them as an aid in hunting. A person baiting wildlife must comply with the baiting regulations.

"Feeding" is defined as individuals placing food materials out that attract wildlife for any reason other than baiting. Feeding for recreational viewing purposes must follow regulations for recreational viewing. *Supplemental feeding of deer and elk is prohibited in the lower peninsula.* 




*NO accusations* Just a heads up


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Outside the allowance for recreational viewing, anyone that is participating in supplemental feeding in the LP is violating the law.


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## riverbender (Dec 1, 2012)

I've been putting out alfalfa for a few weeks now, and always in quantities that would comply with the "rules". That's not a significant amount of food considering how many are showing up lately, but it's keeping them in good thermal cover (cedars) and lessening the distance they need to travel thru three or more feet of snow to find additional browse. Besides the cedars, which they've been eating for weeks now, they're also browsing heavily on the river willow that grows between the river and the cedars. On any given day there are up to 12-13 different deer, that I know of, coming in to the hay and they look to be in really good condition. The next several weeks are critical in my estimation. There's an awful lot of snow to melt and more of it in much quantity along with frigid temps could really spell trouble.


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

hartman756 said:


> Just as a heads up....here is a post from another thread along the same lines.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wrong choice of words. In a different thread he stated, they are feeding outside my living room window.


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## Jager Pro (Nov 8, 2013)

Even the suburban deer need help. A lot of the shrubs are buried in snow.


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## itchn2fish (Dec 15, 2005)

I put in many habitat plots in 2013 again that the deer are hitting heavily now.


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## phensway (Nov 30, 2004)

farmlegend said:


> I killed three does last season, and my guests killed another six.
> 
> That leaves more good browse for the rest of 'em.
> 
> ...


9 dead deer does not take Into account that they winter in a different location. Your resident herd could triple in the winter. Do you accommodate for that? I planted 5 acres of soys hoping to carry the resident 10 deer through the winter. I kicked up nearly 60 deer in one of my plots 3 weeks ago. How could I have known that many deer would travel for an available food source?


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

phensway said:


> Your resident herd could triple in the winter. Do you accommodate for that?


Come on.......he is Farmlegend.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

bucksnbows said:


> Come on.......he is Farmlegend.


I know, right?

#rookiecomments


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## phensway (Nov 30, 2004)

QDMAMAN said:


> I know, right?
> 
> #rookiecomments


Lmao knew some of you clowns would chime in!


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

dead short said:


> Outside the allowance for recreational viewing, anyone that is participating in supplemental feeding in the LP is violating the law.


How many feed stations for recreational viewing can be put out? 1- 10sq ft area containing 2.5 gallons or dozens, as long as it's within the legal distance from the occupied dwelling?

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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

One 2 gallon feed pile per residence. Subsection (d)

3.100a Deer and elk feeding; prohibitions and conditions; words and phrases.
(3) Recreational viewing in areas not closed to feeding, conditions.
In remaining portions of Michigan not described in subsection (1) or identified by provisions of subsection (2), a person may engage in deer and elk feeding for recreational viewing only if all of the following conditions are met:
(a) The feed is placed not more than 100 yards from a residence of the person and upon land owned or possessed by that person.
(b) The feed is placed, scattered, or dispersed at least 100 yards from any area accessible to cattle, goats, sheep, new world camelids, bison, swine, horses, or captive cervidae and no more than 100 yards from a residence.
(c) The feed is scattered directly on the ground by any means, including mechanical spin-cast feeders, provided that the spin-cast feeder does not distribute on the ground more than the maximum volume allowed as described in subdivision (d) of this subsection.
(d) The volume of feed placed, scattered, or distributed does not exceed 2 gallons per residence at any 1 point in time.
(e) The feed placed, scattered, or distributed may be of any food type.
(f) Subsection (3) shall be rescinded on June 9, 2014.


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

dead short said:


> One 2 gallon feed pile per residence. Subsection (d)
> 
> 3.100a Deer and elk feeding; prohibitions and conditions; words and phrases.
> (3) Recreational viewing in areas not closed to feeding, conditions.
> ...


I have a question on this. Does someone have to be living at the residense to be able to put out feed or can it be a hunting cabin. I have wondered about this for some time


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## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

I have a 150 lb tripod feeder that I set in my back fourty every year thru Jan-April. It throws out 6 seconds of corn twice a day. I've never measured how much corn comes out. I do it to help the critters out thru this time of year. I also leave a camera on it to see what I have left from the past year. I do not live on the property. If Im breaking a law, then oh well. Isnt there about a million more important things that our law enforcement could be doing than checking someones feeder or food pile in the middle of winter? I do understand the disease spread concern, so as long as the food pile isnt semi trailer size, whats the big deal? Someone would have to parachute into my property right now to check my setup anyways. I havent been back there since Jan 20.


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Scout 2 said:


> I have a question on this. Does someone have to be living at the residense to be able to put out feed or can it be a hunting cabin. I have wondered about this for some time


If it was me checking, if it's a maintained and used/visited cabin that has a feed pile out that meets the recreational feed criteria, I wouldn't be arguing with the landowner about "residence v. cabin" over a two gallon feed pile.


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## wintrrun (Jun 11, 2008)

sniper said:


> I have a 150 lb tripod feeder that I set in my back fourty every year thru Jan-April. It throws out 6 seconds of corn twice a day. I've never measured how much corn comes out. I do it to help the critters out thru this time of year. I also leave a camera on it to see what I have left from the past year. I do not live on the property. If Im breaking a law, then oh well. Isnt there about a million more important things that our law enforcement could be doing than checking someones feeder or food pile in the middle of winter? I do understand the disease spread concern, so as long as the food pile isnt semi trailer size, whats the big deal? Someone would have to parachute into my property right now to check my setup anyways. I havent been back there since Jan 20.




Parachutes could be involved but merely as a safety measure. :lol:


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

2 gal of feed isn't going to supplement many deer anyways. Sounds like there might be a few violators here.


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

swampbuck said:


> 2 gal of feed isn't going to supplement many deer anyways. Sounds like there might be a few violators here.


Exactly my thoughts. It's human nature to want to help out. In actuality, it's human behavior that elevates an animals population beyond the natural carrying capacity of the area in the first place. It's particularly evident in highly agricultural areas where the food supply seems almost endless for parts of the year. It's just nature, the strong and healthy will survive. Nature will take its course and in some areas the winter kill might be higher than in winters that start in the third week of December and end the first week of March. 

A lot of people are concerned (and proud) about how great their food plots look in the fall and now they look like a blanket of snow, virtually inaccessible to the deer that use the property the rest of the year. Sure some plants will be dug out a little by deer, but in winter, the most valuable food source is browse, which for the most part vegetable/leafy food plots provide do not provide.


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## Tron (Jan 13, 2010)

I have a 6.5 gallon Moultrie feeder at my cabin that is set to spit out corn for a five-second interval two times per day. I measured it, and it puts out approximately one quart of corn each time it goes off, which equals a half gallon per day. I'm only able to refill the feeder approximately every two weeks, which is about when it runs out. Even with this small amount of corn, I regularly see as many as 10 deer under the feeder.

I searched the statutes and the regulations and could not find any specific definition for "residence." As a result, I think a very good argument could be made that "residence" as used in the baiting regulations would include a part-time residence such as a cabin.

My feeding is done primarily for the purpose of recreational viewing of deer, not to help sustain the local deer herd through the winter.


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

dead short said:


> Exactly my thoughts. It's human nature to want to help out. In actuality, it's human behavior that elevates an animals population beyond the natural carrying capacity of the area in the first place. It's particularly evident in highly agricultural areas where the food supply seems almost endless for parts of the year. It's just nature, the strong and healthy will survive. Nature will take its course and in some areas the winter kill might be higher than in winters that start in the third week of December and end the first week of March.
> 
> A lot of people are concerned (and proud) about how great their food plots look in the fall and now they look like a blanket of snow, virtually inaccessible to the deer that use the property the rest of the year. Sure some plants will be dug out a little by deer, but in winter, the most valuable food source is browse, which for the most part vegetable/leafy food plots provide do not provide.


Excellent advice. IMO, making sure there is regenerating forest is the most important thing you can do to maintain good winter habitat to provide deer with woody browse, which is what they need to sustain them in the winter months when there is heavy snow cover.

From the Michigan State University Extension Office: Supplemental deer feeding



> *Supplemental winter feeding of white-tailed deer offers no benefit to the size or health of deer herds on the landscape scale. Research has shown this to be true across the northern tier of states from Maine to Montana. Repeatedly. For decades.
> 
> It is costly. It is ineffective. There are risks of unintended damage to the herd, non-target species and the habitat. It does not increase quality hunting.*


The best management is not reactionary, it is proactive.

Harvesting does in the fall, and making sure that deer have access to woody browse by letting light into your woods are the two best ways to help deer survive the winter.


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## wintrrun (Jun 11, 2008)

dead short said:


> Exactly my thoughts. It's human nature to want to help out. In actuality, it's human behavior that elevates an animals population beyond the natural carrying capacity of the area in the first place. It's particularly evident in highly agricultural areas where the food supply seems almost endless for parts of the year. It's just nature, the strong and healthy will survive. Nature will take its course and in some areas the winter kill might be higher than in winters that start in the third week of December and end the first week of March.
> 
> A lot of people are concerned (and proud) about how great their food plots look in the fall and now they look like a blanket of snow, virtually inaccessible to the deer that use the property the rest of the year. Sure some plants will be dug out a little by deer, but in winter, the most valuable food source is browse, which for the most part vegetable/leafy food plots provide do not provide.



Well put.
It's a hard pill to swallow for most to just let things be what they may be.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

bioactive said:


> Excellent advice. IMO, making sure there is regenerating forest is the most important thing you can do to maintain good winter habitat to provide deer with woody browse, which is what they need to sustain them in the winter months when there is heavy snow cover.
> 
> From the Michigan State University Extension Office: Supplemental deer feeding


 
The difference between those of us that practice this sort of forestry practice, yearround, vs the number of deer hunters in the same geographic area expecting a target rich environment, maintains a huge gulf.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

swampbuck said:


> ......... Sounds like there might be a few violators here.


Yep and I also drove 72 mph on the expressway today. So are you saying that you never break any rules ? If we spread out the small amount of feed that we are putting out there it's not going to be any different than if the deer were able to dig thru the snow and find clover or some other crop/foodplot food.

L & O


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## wintrrun (Jun 11, 2008)

QDMAMAN said:


> The difference between those of us that practice this sort of forestry practice, yearround, vs the number of deer hunters in the same geographic area expecting a target rich environment, maintains a huge gulf.


True dat.:chillin:


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## Rasputin (Jan 13, 2009)

I have a question for dead short. If I cut down a large hemlock for the sole purpose of providing browse for the deer and it is no where near a residence, did I just create an illegal feeding station?

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## poz (Nov 12, 2004)

Liver and Onions said:


> Yep and I also drove 72 mph on the expressway today. So are you saying that you never break any rules ? If we spread out the small amount of feed that we are putting out there it's not going to be any different than if the deer were able to dig thru the snow and find clover or some other crop/foodplot food.
> 
> L & O


but it's still breaking the law. Don't get me wrong I'm all for feeding. I'm sure the guy who trespasses 5 feet into your property line to hunt, will say it's not any different than me being 5 feet away. Or the guy who shoots a doe without a doe permit, claim that it's know big deal, they want the doe population down in the area ,so it's know big deal. The laws are there for a reason. Some of the posters on here have already admitted to over feeding according to the law. Some of these guys will be the first to bash a hunter who has a bait pile of 2 gallons. The laws were put in place to protect the spread of disease. So if your feeding more than 2 gallons, you are just as bad as the hunter that puts out more than 2 gallons of bait.And they would want the book thrown at him. Probably even worst, because more deer will concentrate on a feed pile now.


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Rasputin said:


> I have a question for dead short. If I cut down a large hemlock for the sole purpose of providing browse for the deer and it is no where near a residence, did I just create an illegal feeding station?
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Only by a persons own admission....it would be about impossible to prove.


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## U D (Aug 1, 2012)

Isn't it funny how everyone wants to "bend" the law to fit their desired situation?
A residence is place where one lives. A part-time residence is just that, a part-time residence sometimes called a cabin. 
If you are not living there it is NOT a residence. If there is no dwelling and you are not living there, there is NO residence. Simple.

You must put your recreational viewing feed within 100yds of a residence to be legal.

Enjoy the ride!


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

Heck, I just wish there were deer to feed. They left as soon as the snow fell, as they do in my neck of the woods every year. I have to settle for watching the turkeys instead.

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## deer sluger (Jan 22, 2013)

fairfax1 said:


> First, we get this from post #31:
> From the *Michigan State University* Extension Office: _Supplemental deer feeding: Supplemental winter feeding of white-tailed deer offers no benefit to the size or health of deer herds on the landscape scale. Research has shown this to be true across the northern tier of states from Maine to Montana. Repeatedly. For decades.
> 
> It is costly. It is ineffective. There are risks of unintended damage to the herd, non-target species and the habitat. It does not increase quality hunting.
> ...


I don't sit on stumps .read the post again . The point was that the dnr needs to make an exception this year they do in the up if there is a to much snow ! And I have called them ! By the way we have very nice blinds here with no bait .


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

fairfax1 said:


> Finally, is it now the DNRs fault that we have an extraordinarily harsh winter? If so, someone should tell them.





fairfax1 said:


> Finally, is it now the DNRs fault that we have an extraordinarily harsh winter? If so, someone should tell them.


Winters like this make me fantasize about retirement....running blue crab traps in the near shore marsh waters of the gulf....









For now though, if you need to find me I'll be on Belle Isle.....


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## fairfax1 (Jun 12, 2003)

_"Winters like this make me fantasize about retirement....running blue crab traps in the near shore marsh waters of the gulf."_

Funny you should mention that. I can tell you that here on Sarasota Bay the redfish have been biting and even a few spanish mackerel. Been using shrimp for bait so far, will switch to crabs for sheepshead near the pilings. (ps...been catching quite a few bonnethead sharks the last several days.) No need to be bored in retirement.


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## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

dead short said:


> For now though, if you need to find me I'll be on Belle Isle.....


You seem like a good guy - does someone in the department not like you :16suspect 

First windfarms in the Thumb and now Belle Isle, sheesh :lol:

(just kidding dead short - Belle Isle was a great place to visit growing up. Hopefully you get to see a resurgence of sorts)

PS crabbing was in full effect a couple weeks ago in the Tampa area


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Radar420 said:


> You seem like a good guy - does someone in the department not like you :16suspect
> 
> First windfarms in the Thumb and now Belle Isle, sheesh :lol:
> 
> ...


Luck of the draw I guess. The Detroit district is working most of the shifts there. Because it's being covered 24 hours a day seven days a week with two conservation officers (and MSP), the Bay City district and the Lansing district are filling in shifts that can't be covered with the Detroit districts current staffing level. 

 ....I have to try to figure out how many crab traps it would take to make a good supplemental retirement income.


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## Chromelander (Oct 1, 2011)

I read somewhere that to much corn was bad for deer also. But its hard to sit and do nothing. Come this spring I dont want to say that we should have done something cause the deer died over the winter. Hate to see deer that we try to keep alive to maturity die cause we did nothing

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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Chromelander said:


> I read somewhere that to much corn was bad for deer also. But its hard to sit and do nothing. Come this spring I dont want to say that we should have done something cause the deer died over the winter. Hate to see deer that we try to keep alive to maturity die cause we did nothing
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Too much can affect deer the same way. 

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_shouldn't_cows_eat_corn


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## Rainman68 (Apr 29, 2011)

hartman756 said:


> Just as a heads up....here is a post from another thread along the same lines.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gee can I make this post my signature? Might come in handy next fall


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

I put out a combination of corn, apple's and deer pellets for the same reason I put out suet, bird seed and cracked corn, as well as cobb corn on the squirrel feeder........we enjoy watching the wildlife. From birds, squirrels , opossum, and ***** to deer. 

I don't think I have any real impact on the herd, but the 10 or so deer that stop don't seem to mind the hand out.

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## Firefighter (Feb 14, 2007)

Is everyone as concerned about hungry people throughout the cold months as they are about feeding "their" precious deer?

Take a moment to consider.

If half of us spent HALF our time and money helping people, well, you get the picture.

Just sayin'.


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

I have to admit, I did throw a flake of hay spread around my back patio to keep the friggin rabbits out of my bushes and away from my trees.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

Firefighter said:


> Is everyone as concerned about hungry people throughout the cold months as they are about feeding "their" precious deer?
> 
> Take a moment to consider.
> 
> ...


I don't wait until it's cold or they're hungry, or for a member of a chat forum to ask for groceries to take to Detroit so I don't have to. 

Matt 6:1-4
Just sayin'.


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

Firefighter said:


> Is everyone as concerned about hungry people throughout the cold months as they are about feeding "their" precious deer?
> 
> Take a moment to consider.
> 
> ...


So, you know what charities other members contribute to?


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## riverbender (Dec 1, 2012)

Firefighter said:


> Is everyone as concerned about hungry people throughout the cold months as they are about feeding "their" precious deer?
> 
> Take a moment to consider.
> 
> ...


Nice thought to put out there for people to consider, and my guess is that there's quite a few folks here on MS that have charitable hearts and deeds to match. Personally, my wife and I started a community dinner program a bit more than 4 years ago. Its every Wednesday and we've prepared and served over 25,000 meals in that time. The generosity of so many people that help to make that possible is very humbling. I happen to know that a lot of them feed "their" deer, too.

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## Nocturnal Ghost (May 26, 2011)




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## shoelessjoe (Dec 13, 2012)

I let them yard up, supplemental feeding (corn, apples, etc) by humans isn't what the deer needs right now from what Ive read. Ive also read that if you do try and help, take a look at what the deer has to negotiate to get to your spots, like traffic, snow depth etc. Conditions on the roads aren't so great in the winter and it could lead to more deer - vehicle accidents. I let them stay in their yard I think it is better for them.


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## Rainman68 (Apr 29, 2011)

dead short said:


> I have to admit, I did throw a flake of hay spread around my back patio to keep the friggin rabbits out of my bushes and away from my trees.


Is a "Flake" under 2 gallons? :evil:

On a side note....

Sorry, but I started all this "Supplemental Feeding" talk. QDMAman admitted to it so I posted the DNR law. I posted in "Questions about it in "MI Hunting/Fishing Law". Dead Sort was quick and right on it with an answer. Fact is, you trust the biologist for information a about antler growth, APR's, MAR's and baiting (to top it off), yet ignore what they have to say about supplemental feeding. 

IMO, I think most are more concerned about the buck they are letting grow...


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Rainman68 said:


> Is a "Flake" under 2 gallons? :evil:


For sure.


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## casscityalum (Aug 27, 2007)

Rainman68 said:


> Is a "Flake" under 2 gallons? :evil:
> 
> On a side note....
> 
> ...


Huh??? Who ignores??

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## Chromelander (Oct 1, 2011)

Dont believe everything the biologist say, they are not the know it all . Mother nature is not a text book thing. After loosening deer to EHD I dont want to see deer die from a harsh winter. 

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## hunting man (Mar 2, 2005)

I always do my part to help the local herd. I still shoot as many as I can


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## wintrrun (Jun 11, 2008)

casscityalum said:


> Huh??? Who ignores??
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R760X using Ohub Campfire mobile app


The author of post 25 does.:lol:
And he just represents the vocal / voiced out crowd.


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## FullQuiver (May 2, 2006)

Chromelander said:


> After loosening deer to EHD I dont want to see deer die from a harsh winter.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Then you should shoot more when your area is above carrying capacity... 
I would trade snow conditions with any one south of here on the lower peninsula, and I'm not crying about snow levels or deer dying. If there is enough habitat they will survive the winter if not they are over carrying capacity and will die.... 

Mother nature is the great equalizer from greedy hunters who expect bloated deer numbers.... The slp should never have supplemental feeding nor should anyone from there expect it.. This whole thread shows the true colors of far too many MI deer hunters:gaga: who have no real concern for anything other than themselves..........


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## motdean (Oct 23, 2011)

So I finally made it out to the hunting grounds to check on things. Here is a pic of the deer trail. The trail is over 24 inches wide. Of interest was one of the last deer to come through was dragging what appeared to be it's right rear hoof...

Also, a buddy of mine that lives on a small (shallow) lake took me over to see where his geothermal dumps out. It was open water there. There had to be 15-20 pike, an assorted number of bass, catfish, bluegills, and perch in the 20 foot opening. He said that they were fighitng for oxygen. The heavy snow and ice combined with the shallow lake was oxygen deprived.

Hurry, spring!!!


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