# Night time centerfire



## 9 (Jan 17, 2000)

dead short said:


> One of the biggest problems is that people often live within a bubble of friends and like minded/acting people and are unaware or just plain oblivious at what may be happening around them.
> 
> Fortunately(?) for me, I get to see all of them.
> 
> Posted from my iPhone.


Far and away the most commonsensical and truthful reply I've seen anywhere in a long time! Sage facts of life! Good job Dead Short!


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

limige said:


> Just a friendly debate to explore the thoughts and opinions of others


Haha, my favorite kind. 




Posted from my iPhone.


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Seldom said:


> Far and away the most commonsensical and truthful reply I've seen anywhere in a long time! Sage facts of life! Good job Dead Short!


Thanks. I just call it as I see it. 

Posted from my iPhone.


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## Diogenes (Mar 9, 2012)

fr3db3ar said:


> Please help us out. I believe they are still working out the wording but if interested please show your support.
> 
> Sign here


I signed it because the arguments against it don't apply to me.


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## fr3db3ar (Feb 26, 2009)

I respect all opinions whether they agree with mine or not. 

Thanks to all who decide to help.


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## Cobra (Jan 19, 2000)

Honestly, can live with it either way. Enjoyed it when we could, didn't like the way it ended but have moved along. Under the right circumstances I'd like to see it back, limited calibers and bullet types with bolt actions or single shots. It's a marginal at best proposition and can live without it, easily, if that's the way it is. I'd still rather see a Dove season to be truthful


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## BVW (Jul 25, 2002)

dead short said:


> PM's aren't safe from cut and paste (not implying that you would, just sayng people have) so I'll just give you my opinion here. Notwithstanding the additional opportunity for someone to be afield to violate other game laws, there is also a definite safety issue with firing a center fire rifle into the black. I have shot a .308 open sites accurately at 1000 meters at Camp Grayling in the daytime. I can't think of a good reason why anyone would think that it's a good idea to fire a cartridge that can and will carry that far at night.
> 
> The safety issue of it far outweighs any alleged additional opportunity for taking game. Hunters have been successfully taking varmints after hours for years with a rimfire rifles or shotgun with "birdshot" loads.
> 
> ...


Based on this logic would you suggest banning Centerfire Rifles for Deer in the "rifle zone" ? Hunters in Southern Michigan have been succesfull in taking Deer with Shotguns and MLs for years.. Does the "want for centerfire rifles" and "safety issue" out weigh the "Need" for Deer as well? :evil: Maybe you actually believe this to be true and don't hunt with a rifle up north anyway so could careless.. if so ignore the following > .. Lol 
What caliber is most common in poaching convictions? I think this will help support one side or the other. 

You don't really think guys are walking into unknown areas at night and trying to call and shoot at Predators? How many guys you know drive around at night, park, and walk into areas that they have never been to night hunt for Predators? This does not make sense and is not happening with any caliber or load. Night hunting spots are the same spots guys hunt durring the day and at least need to be pre-scouted in order to know where to sit and be able to see with a light at night. Hunters know where they can shoot and where they can't. The areas i call durring the day and use my 223, i would be just as confident and aware of what is around if i was allowed to use my 223 at night. At least at night if someone is walking around the woods they will most likely need a flashlight and be able to be seen from long distances (unlike daytime) (unless this person has really really good vision and is walking in an area where a Coyote is at the same time and is so quiet that they haven't spooked the Coyote while walking in the woods at night . 

But with that being said, i can actually see both sides of this argument. I don't really night hunt much at all anymore (it's too much of a pain and even though i have killed Coyotes with my 22mag, i don't like using it much because it does not have the knock down power to kill Coyotes humanely and consisitantly). I understand this probably won't get passed based on people's natural fear of the dark, and the lack of respect for Coyotes. Most current night hunting laws were created for Raccoon hunters, not Coyote hunters.

I think if one wants to argue against this proposal, i would argue that it's more difficult for Identifying your target at night. And i would worry that hunters are shooting long distances at just a set of glowing eyes. But all forms of hunting involves different levels of common sense and responsibilies. 

FYI: New York allows Centerfires at night.. But not Michigan?


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

The difference is night and day.....


Posted from my iPhone.


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## Buddwiser (Dec 14, 2003)

dead short said:


> Simply said, because there is a fair number of people that do not know better or care.
> 
> 
> Posted from my iPhone.


We all know that there are people already using calibers far greater than 
.22 at night while they are out and about poaching. Punishing/limiting those who do not or would not break the law i.e. poaching or hunting in an area that does not provide safe hunting just because a few do so is tantamount to denying every citizen a CPL because crooks carry pistols or banning hunting in general because a few people have been killed in accidental shootings. What I read here between the lines is that anyone who wishes to use something larger than a .22 at night is a potential poacher or a very stupid person. Way to go guys.


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## WAUB-MUKWA (Dec 13, 2003)

BVW said:


> Based on this logic would you suggest banning Centerfire Rifles for Deer in the "rifle zone" ? Hunters in Southern Michigan have been succesfull in taking Deer with Shotguns and MLs for years.. Does the "want for centerfire rifles" and "safety issue" out weigh the "Need" for Deer as well? :evil: Maybe you actually believe this to be true and don't hunt with a rifle up north anyway so could careless.. if so ignore the following > .. Lol
> What caliber is most common in poaching convictions? I think this will help support one side or the other.
> 
> You don't really think guys are walking into unknown areas at night and trying to call and shoot at Predators? How many guys you know drive around at night, park, and walk into areas that they have never been to night hunt for Predators? This does not make sense and is not happening with any caliber or load. Night hunting spots are the same spots guys hunt durring the day and at least need to be pre-scouted in order to know where to sit and be able to see with a light at night. Hunters know where they can shoot and where they can't. The areas i call durring the day and use my 223, i would be just as confident and aware of what is around if i was allowed to use my 223 at night. At least at night if someone is walking around the woods they will most likely need a flashlight and be able to be seen from long distances (unlike daytime) (unless this person has really really good vision and is walking in an area where a Coyote is at the same time and is so quiet that they haven't spooked the Coyote while walking in the woods at night .
> ...


Thats why it's going to the State because if it was up to the DNR LE division we would all be afield with coat hanger slingshots and straws with beans.


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Buddwiser said:


> What I read here between the lines is that anyone who wishes to use something larger than a .22 at night is a potential poacher or a very stupid person. Way to go guys.


I'm thinking you need reading glasses. 





Posted from my iPhone.


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## Skinner 2 (Mar 19, 2004)

dead short said:


> I'm thinking you need reading glasses QUOTE]
> 
> I must need glasses then too LOL
> 
> ...


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Y'all sure come up with some weird conclusions. 


Posted from my iPhone.


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## Dom (Sep 19, 2002)

Might have better chance of reinstating if the petition were worded to the effect of something like: "Any rimfire or centerfire .22 caliber permitted for night varmint hunting is required to be fired only from a highstand that is a minimum 10 feet or taller for proper bullet backstop."

Things are a bit different here, but in a country the size of Montana with 85 million people here we regularly hunt at night, with any centerfire we desire to use, with extremely few incidents. So it can be safely done. We have a lot more riding on the line to loose for doing stupid stuff though  Waidmannsheil, Dom.


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## sgtguardsman (Nov 5, 2010)

I agree with the comment of .22 centerfire or less. I would like to coyote hunt on my place, but now I have seen I have to use my .17 HMR. I have not been able to call one in during the day. It would make the chance of getting a shot better....just saying for me. I do understand the chance that someone would use it as an "excuse" to violate. I hear rifle shots WAY before Legal hours every year on Gun opener!! I hunt with my bow and it Really angers me, when I can't see antlers past 20 yards how can they. Sorry, getting off the subject.


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## Buddwiser (Dec 14, 2003)

dead short said:


> PM's aren't safe from cut and paste (not implying that you would, just sayng people have) so I'll just give you my opinion here. Notwithstanding the additional opportunity for someone to be afield to violate other game laws, there is also a definite safety issue with firing a center fire rifle into the black.
> 
> Posted from my iPhone.





dead short said:


> I'm thinking you need reading glasses.
> 
> 
> Posted from my iPhone.


Well, I put my reading glasses on and look what I found. Seems as though 
I was wrong about reading in between the lines. Its the actual words. People here DO believe those who want to use a larger caliber are just potential poachers and not smart enough to not shoot towards houses. As I said in my last post.......way to go guys.


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Since this was omitted in your quote, I took the liberty to quote it back for you, since you finally are wearing your glasses. Read the paragraph that starts with "The safety issue" closely. 



dead short said:


> there is also a definite safety issue with firing a center fire rifle into the black. I have shot a .308 open sites accurately at 1000 meters at Camp Grayling in the daytime. I can't think of a good reason why anyone would think that it's a good idea to fire a cartridge that can and will carry that far at night.
> 
> The safety issue of it far outweighs any alleged additional opportunity for taking game. Hunters have been successfully taking varmints after hours for years with a rimfire rifles or shotgun with "birdshot" loads.
> 
> ...


Whatever. Read it how you want. Whether you'd like to believe it or not, there are "some" that would use it as an excuse to be afield with a center fire rifle with no other intent than to violate. Same as checking a group of guys spearing pike that swear they're out for suckers, or a guy with a hidden stringer of bass only out for "catch and release". 

I am less concerned about that (violating) than the safety aspect of it anyway, that part is just job security. I have no problem restating the safety aspect again in case you missed it again. 


Posted from my iPhone.


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## Diogenes (Mar 9, 2012)

I think it's selfish to use government to limit people before they've committed a real crime (a crime where somebody's rights get violated). I used to fly small private single engine airplanes. That is a federally regulated activity. For a variety of reasons, flying them at night is a safety issue. It's also a way to move illegal drugs long distances with little fear of detection. It's also something many people do strictly for pleasure. I really enjoyed it. I was already an adult then and I'm glad private aviation wasn't regulated by the state of Michigan. I didn't need another of my hobbies regulated by people who think they can be trusted to play the role of father over everyone else.


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## WAUB-MUKWA (Dec 13, 2003)

Diogenes said:


> I think it's selfish to use government to limit people before they've committed a real crime (a crime where somebody's rights get violated). I used to fly small private single engine airplanes. That is a federally regulated activity. For a variety of reasons, flying them at night is a safety issue. It's also a way to move illegal drugs long distances with little fear of detection. It's also something many people do strictly for pleasure. I really enjoyed it. I was already an adult then and I'm glad private aviation wasn't regulated by the state of Michigan. I didn't need another of my hobbies regulated by people who think they can be trusted to play the role of father over everyone else.


Its a chosen few who think they know best for the entire population and its not right, nor is it fair and might be unconstitutional if you really think about it. But thats another 5-6 paged thread.  Its like what I had said earlier and was angered that just because new people were in office they decided to change it when it worked well before without any problems as far as the general public knew. 

Oh well, i'm going out to kill something legally right now. :yikes: :lol:


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## Beaverhunter2 (Jan 22, 2005)

Cobra said:


> Enjoyed it when we could, didn't like the way it ended but have moved along. Under the right circumstances I'd like to see it back, limited calibers and bullet types with bolt actions or single shots. It's a marginal at best proposition and can live without it, easily, if that's the way it is.


When you say you'd like to see it "back", do you mean you'd take it the way it was- no lights allowed? From what I've heard (just rumors) lights were allowed because the firearms were changed to rimfires and shotguns only.

John


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