# Baldwin Area.



## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> as insensitive as dimestore psych advice of "if you don't like you job, just quit"



Hey, I use that one all the time!  

I don't care what kind of deer herd you've got; high density, low density, poor or good age structure, 43 hunters per square mile is incompatible with anything that I would consider a quality hunting experience. That sort of hunter density is a "lower hole in the bucket" than anything having to do with the deer themselves.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

I'm not saying there's no deer. Of course there's deer around. We did take 2 pretty nice bucks off our place last year. It's about all was saw last year, but we did good enough considering the whole picture. The whole debate can be taken right down the the lowest denominator. In some northern counties, is it time to ease back on antlerless tag quota's because the reduction phase has been accomplished? I say yes and it appears Lansing says yes. So now, the only people I'm debating with is fellow hunters. Do you see my point? Sometimes it's so easy to get wrapped up into an ideaology, it's difficult to admit that you've won. And it wasn't me who's won, it's QDM who's won. In my area,, we're "there". Everything this forum is about is implemented. We cut the herd in half and have begun better habitat regrowth. Many hunters are putting in food plots. The idea of passing bucks, which was an impossible thought around here 10 years ago, is taking root. 
In a way, it's like a government social program that lives too many years after the stated goals have been met, but nobody wants to give it up and defund it because it was so successful meeting it's goals.
At some point, somebody has to admit that the initial part of the plan has been accomplished. Not statewide of course, but in a couple DMU's it has been. What's wrong with that? 
I guess what I'm asking for is some here to say "you know what, if you guys keep everything status quo for 5 years, you will be poster boys for what QDMA is all about because you'll have turned an overpopulated and overhunted 'deer factory' into a QDM paradise". 
I'm asking the naval guns to stop shelling because we've taken the beach and all resistence is over. Adam and I are standing on the beach and can see so ourselves.  Now we need to concentrate on teh southern front.
ps-I'm not arguing with anyone. We all want the same thing. I just think we got there first.


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

The point of hunting the family property is because of a few factors first- you do not have to contend with someone else at daylight you never expected to be there, second- safety, I realize a lot of people do not think about this as much but we know where everyone is at all times on the property and if someone needs help we are there. 3- the 2 older guys (my Dad and his friend) don't need to be off having a heart attack dragging a deer in the middle of nowhere (they just enjoy the hunting and watching etc they are not die hards by anymeans like some of the rest of us in camp. 4- there are no antlerless tags for state or federal land. 5- my Dad has an A$$ load of money tied up in it and he likes to utilize it. The frustrating thing for him is it was great hunting from 1994 to about 2002 then went down the toilet quick. When I complain I am not complaining about gun season as gun season is a bonus for me I do most my hunting in archery season so hunter numbers etc really don't phase me a whole lot. Hunting private property with stands that have names etc is all part of the fun of the camp. I know areas of stateland that are better than others and many times they are vacant but it is being out there that counts unless I have not attached a tag to a deer yet in bow season. I do a little on state land but for the most part go to where I have tagged many deer in past seasons and try for another. The frustrating thing is for years all of our stands were producers and you could sit back and take your pick of big doe small doe and maybe a buck if you sat tight through the day. I know there are deer up there but not in the same supply as there could be. I beleive the amount of doe tags given recently has really put a hurting to the button buck population up there and that is why there has been such a reduction in young bucks being seen. We use our property we fish it, we hunt it for turkey, woodcock, grouse, deer, and an occasional squirrel or two it is great looking property but we use it it is not a sanctuary that we only enter 2 weeks out of the year and leave alone the rest of the time. We enjoy being on it and I am sure that effects the deer sightings but a matter of 3 years ago we wouls be out sitting at the camp fire and have deer eating corn 30 yards away. Things have changed a great deal up there in a few short years and people are upset about it so those who are not knowledgeable about it should not comment and say we are wrong. Drive around and you will see deer yes but not the same way you once did. There are great turkeys and other wildlife around as well and it is a beautiful are to spend time. It will come back I know it and I look forward to it in the mean time as the hunter numbers will be lower this year and the next few years to come.

And yes there are a lot of pileated woodpeckers this year  

AW


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## Cherokee (May 24, 2004)

AW

Understand your situation completely. You are fortunate to have such a nice property with great resources and to have a camp with great traditions that will last for years to come. Everyone's situations are different. As Bob's recent post states - you're there - look forward!

Enjoy! See you up that way!
Rob


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

Cherokee, I wish I could say the reason I have yet to take a nice tom this year is because they are not there but that would be a lie as they have outsmarted me and have been about 1 step ahead of me the whole season :lol: it isa beautiful area with lots to discover hope to see you up that way

AW


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## Cherokee (May 24, 2004)

AW

" It's hunting!!" :lol: 

Have fun and good luck to you!


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

Geat posts [email protected]! I too have lots of hunters around me.....at least 40-50 bait piles (that I know of personally) within a 1/2 mile to a mile of my borders. I wonder sometimes if the best way to protect a few small bucks would be to keep doing what I have been doing, bait heavy(within the law) consistantly throughout the property during gun season...but do not hunter during gun season..at all. Let the deer know when they come onto the property they have a free pass for a couple weeks, and then keep hunting during bow and muzzleloader. Although there is an extremely low amount of pressure even during the gun season already. For example, 3 people hunted a combination of only 10 days during hunting season...total, on a 130 acres. Like FL said though, those shear hunter numbers can indeed by the "lowest hole in the bucket"...but I still think you can Adam can have good hunting, even in those conditions.


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## poz (Nov 12, 2004)

If driving around is going to determine the deer population, then I have been driving an average of 200 miles a weekend during turkey season in Lake co. Since 1988 I've been up there during turkey season. We use to count the number of deer we would see. On average we use to see approx. 200 deer a day. in the late 80's to mid 90's. this year I counted 22. A 90% drop form 10 years ago. Don't tell us that the deer are still around and we should be happy, because you saw a few. The deer are down, everyone who hunts up there agrees. If you lost a $100,000 a year job and were complaining that now you could only make $10,000 a year, what would you think of me if I came up to you and said what are you complaining about, I still see you with some money. We worked hard on our places up there, and are mad that the hunting has just dissapeared. I hope that what has happened to the herd up there never happens anywhere else in Mich.


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## hoyt03 (Jul 21, 2003)

I have spent many years hunting south of Walhalla, Branch, etc in the
P.M. river area. No more, we all bagged that area 3-4 seasons back.
Don't get me wrong, there are deer there, you just need to do some
serious pre-season homework, stand placement, etc and I don't have
the time or gas $ to be up there all the time that is required to succeed
now. We killed alot of bucks in a 20 year period time frame up there, it
was a very nice hunting area and lots of fun was had. Now, I stay home
in southern Mi and hunt close by. Lots of deer and more convieniet for me.


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

poz said:


> If driving around is going to determine the deer population, then I have been driving an average of 200 miles a weekend during turkey season in Lake co. Since 1988 I've been up there during turkey season. We use to count the number of deer we would see. On average we use to see approx. 200 deer a day. in the late 80's to mid 90's. this year I counted 22. A 90% drop form 10 years ago. Don't tell us that the deer are still around and we should be happy, because you saw a few. The deer are down, everyone who hunts up there agrees. If you lost a $100,000 a year job and were complaining that now you could only make $10,000 a year, what would you think of me if I came up to you and said what are you complaining about, I still see you with some money. We worked hard on our places up there, and are mad that the hunting has just dissapeared. I hope that what has happened to the herd up there never happens anywhere else in Mich.





Are you sure you are telling the truth now    

AW


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## poz (Nov 12, 2004)

Actually Adam,

We really have 1000 DPSM with a buck to doe ratio of 10: 1 and all the bucks are 180 class or better. but don't tell anyone. we don't want the hunting up here.


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

Same with us but the dmn things won't usually break 190! Must be bad genetics though I guess plus we need to get rid of every antlerless deer we see there are just far too many of them to deal with. Hope nobody shows up this year to hunt i wouldn't want to let our secret out of how this hunting has been then everyone will think they are entitled toa traphy every year  

AW


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

all kidding aside, adam - have you ever seen a 190 lb + whitetail up close? 2 years ago i butchered a 3.5 year old buck (for a friend) that weighed in at 194 lbs field dressed.

never seen backstraps that big - amazing.. those 2 straps piled up in a pan were more meat than the 4 straps taken from 2 other doe i was doing at the same time... can't imagine what some of these canadian bruisers look like..


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

Yeah Alberta, Saskachewan thats what I'm talkin about I wanna try those areas some day for the 300 lb bruisers. I see em on tv and it is hard to judge the racks on em because they look small compared to the body until you see the guy hold it up :yikes: 

AW


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