# Building codes and small cabins (long post)



## bigdude

My wife and I are looking to buy a property with acreage and put a small cabin on it. We cannot afford to have a conventional home built so we are considering a pre-made Amish-type cabin with around 500-600 square feet. Even though I am referring to it as a “cabin”, we plan on having electricity, septic tank and a well. The challenge is finding a municipality with zoning that allows smaller dwellings. I have been spent countless hours researching different counties and townships and have found a few that allow “mini-cabins”. I have also found some that have no zoning ordinances at all.

The current problem I am attempting to solve involves building codes. The township we are considering will allow dwellings no matter how small which is great! But an Amish-type pre-made cabin will not meet building codes that are designed for stick built homes. Do I simply have the foundation poured and then put the cabin on it without pulling permits? What can happen down the road when authorities discover a cabin on our property and no building codes will applied for? I am concerned that local authorities could force me to tear it down or label it "uninhabitable". 

Please note, I am not attempting to evade paying property taxes or avoid paying permit fees. We just want a smaller vacation home because my wife and I do not have kids (among other reasons). If not pulling building permits simply means I ends up paying the permit fees plus fines, I have no problem with that.


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## Nostromo

I'd suggest talking to the building official before you make plans and drawing any required permits.


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## lazyike

To the OP

In some (if not most) rural areas you're going to be dealing with 2 different groups - if a township has a zoning ordinance, a township zoning administrator, at least, and usually a county building department or code enforcement department. 

Please, please (I can't stress this enough) take the time to at least talk with those folks from both groups before you build. This process can range from fairly pleasant (or at least mildly irritating) to truly devastating. In our county the building department knows which townships have a zoning ordinance. No zoning permit - the county will not issue a building permit (at least they are not supposed to.) If you build with no permits when they are required, chances are you will get caught, many times zoning violations are discovered by the assessor, that can start a chain of very severe consequences.

Do yourself a favor, protect your investment, follow the rules.


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## Lumberman

Welcome to the world of ridiculous government over site. 

Be prepaid to reach a level of frustration you didn’t know you were capable of. Your plan seems very logical and well thought out which isn't going to work at all. 

I agree with the above post. Go meet with the individual in charge. Bring coffee donuts and whatever else you can think of. Bow to them repeatedly when you get there and hope for the best. 

If you’re lucky it will be a fairly logical individual that will help you. If your not picture a guy with skinny pants on that doesn’t know the difference between a hammer and a screw driver and.... his favorite thing to do is tell you no. The only way you can get him to say yes is if you go so far above and beyond the rules that there is no way he could say no. Then he will say no anyway. Then you will have to go to an arbitrator who will approve your plan and apologize for the other guy. But you don’t get the 2 years and countless hours back.


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## PerchOnly

What everyone has already stated for you to do is the correct steps for you to take. As far as what they can do if you sneak one in, probably includes requiring you to take the structure down and fines. And while I know many people feel that this is an infringement on their property rights, it really is there to protect you. For example you probably would not want a garbage dump created next to your site, what prevents that? Local Govt regs. Good luck in your search.


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## MossyHorns

Don't do it without a permit. Someone down the end of our road had put one up and within a month the township had it removed. The bottom line is that these cabins don't meet building codes. Our township in Lake County requires a permit for anything over 200 sft.


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## Martin Looker

Build a garage big enough to park a trailer in also get permits for power and sewage.


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## lazyike

In the last few years we have had quite a bit of work done to our house. Our contractor let us know when we needed to pull permits (I know, trust but verify, right?), I checked myself and he was correct every time.

Zoning permit - no big deal, $25, I get a copy and the county building department gets a copy.
Building permit - a little more involved and definitely more expensive, if I remember about $75
for what we needed (no structural changes, cosmetic except for a new deck.) I get a nice laminated copy of the building permit to post in plain sight for all the world to see (my wife objected to the whole neighborhood being able to see it, "Everybody will think we're in foreclosure or something".) The contractor does the work, the building inspector does his inspections and we're all good.

The contractor told me the county building requirements added considerably to the cost of the deck and a little to the other work, but it was a lot cheaper than getting caught with no permits and tearing everything out and starting over and paying for the permits anyway.


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## perchjerker

We have one of these Amish cabin building "factories" down the road from my place. Cedar Creek cabins in Manton. They have a modern crane for unloading building supplies. They actually just built a bigger place to build them in. Doesn't really look very Amish to me but they are. At any one time there must be 20 of these cabins and sheds lining the road for sale or ready for pickup

They are pumping these things out, they are always busy. People must be buying these things and setting them up someplace. I would ask one of these builders their take on it as well as check with the authorities already mentioned.

I always wondered about this, we thought about getting one as a guest cabin but decided on a used popup camper instead


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## Mack Brown

I am curious which counties you found to be in the top running for you. Why not just have someone build you a small to code house. The same size as the Amish but to code so you can permit it all the way through. I bet the Amish would do it for xtra money. I imagine most people put these cabins on land that has a house on it already. Then it is just a shed. A fancy shed, but shed all the same.


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## sullyxlh

Lumberman said:


> .. Go meet with the individual in charge. Bring coffee donuts and whatever else you can think of...


Inspector's or building officals can NOT accept offerings of any type....


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## sullyxlh

lazyike said:


> ..he contractor told me the county building requirements added considerably to the cost of the deck and a little to the other work..


He is wrong.


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## Steve

As others have said, contact the local building inspector.


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## Waif

Expect a new structure to be noticed. If not right away ,eventually.

Knowing the codes helps avoid multiple problems getting up to code later. (After failing an inspection when noticed.)
A footing not deep enough=headache.
A structure not beyond setback requirements =headache.
Weatherhead the wrong height=headache.
Roof pitch wrong if code is specific... " ".
Snow load wrong = " ".

Save the headaches by doing it right the first time. And avoiding "re-work" or worse.

A former neighbor...Thought he was getting away with certain things besides a polebarn built without a permit ,while the township took aerial pictures/notes.
Guess who received more attention for trying to dodge proper process ,than if he had done it right the first time? Too close to main dwelling. Improper footing depth and I don't recall what else. Lightning hit it and of course raced into his house through the shallow wire run to barn partly as a result of it being so close , but more for his not wiring it better. Blew up a lot of equipment...
Across the street from him ,the township supervisor stopped to measure my setback and dimensions on my finished polebarn and after a brief talk about a deer I had hanging he said "I trust you" and did not measure. 
But everything was on the up and up all along too....
This was the same supervisor I complained to when the zoning changed from Ag to residential with my purchase. I would not have bought it if no livestock was allowed.
He told me my having stock depended on my neighbors. And I said good ,they have no complaint...
And he heard no complaints about it.
Otherwise , ordinance variance would have needed to be sought , and/or a special use permit.
But the townships residents (especially neighbors) can weigh heavily on if it gets approved when a change is sought....


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## Nostromo

Lumberman said:


> Welcome to the world of ridiculous government over site.
> 
> Be prepaid to reach a level of frustration you didn’t know you were capable of. Your plan seems very logical and well thought out which isn't going to work at all.
> 
> I agree with the above post. Go meet with the individual in charge. Bring coffee donuts and whatever else you can think of. Bow to them repeatedly when you get there and hope for the best.
> 
> If you’re lucky it will be a fairly logical individual that will help you. If your not picture a guy with skinny pants on that doesn’t know the difference between a hammer and a screw driver and.... his favorite thing to do is tell you no. The only way you can get him to say yes is if you go so far above and beyond the rules that there is no way he could say no. Then he will say no anyway. Then you will have to go to an arbitrator who will approve your plan and apologize for the other guy. But you don’t get the 2 years and countless hours back.


Lumberman I have to say you are being rather dismissive of an entire class of professionals. As adults we all understand the reason for codes and the enforcement that is required. In my professional experience most confusion and frustration is caused by ignorance or deceit on the part of the property owner. The last thing I wanted to see from a property owner is feigned submissive behavior. If you feel an inspectors interpretation of the code is incorrect explain it to him or her. If they don't agree you can appeal at a minimal cost.


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## Hunters Edge

Zoning is separate from building codes.

Through history they have changed and added building codes for one reason SAFETY. Top and sole plates, not only allow substance for attaching material (drywall/paneling etc) but provide structure support/integrity and fire retardant. Headers not only is structure support but help to protect areas of ingress and degrees in case of emergency. The amount of window space per room is not just for light but emergency ingress and degrees. Through history or time basic design has been a considerable factor in safety thus the reason for it's requirement. Not just to save you and your family but years later when you sell it to others.


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## Lumberman

Nostromo said:


> Lumberman I have to say you are being rather dismissive of an entire class of professionals. As adults we all understand the reason for codes and the enforcement that is required. In my professional experience most confusion and frustration is caused by ignorance or deceit on the part of the property owner. The last thing I wanted to see from a property owner is feigned submissive behavior. If you feel an inspectors interpretation of the code is incorrect explain it to him or her. If they don't agree you can appeal at a minimal cost.


You're probably right. I’m sure they don’t all wear skinny pants. 

I left the door wide open for the helpful professionals. I’m sure most of them are fine. 

Thanks for the advice. So submissive but not too submissive. Have to hit the sweet spot.


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## Nostromo

Generally happy with compliant.


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## junkman

Best to go talk to the county or township people before you do anything.With the whole tiny home movement some counties and townships are willing to give variances.


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## Suzanne C

Waif said:


> Expect a new structure to be noticed. If not right away ,eventually.
> 
> Knowing the codes helps avoid multiple problems getting up to code later. (After failing an inspection when noticed.)
> A footing not deep enough=headache.
> A structure not beyond setback requirements =headache.
> Weatherhead the wrong height=headache.
> Roof pitch wrong if code is specific... " ".
> Snow load wrong = " ".
> 
> Save the headaches by doing it right the first time. And avoiding "re-work" or worse.
> 
> A former neighbor...Thought he was getting away with certain things besides a polebarn built without a permit ,while the township took aerial pictures/notes.
> Guess who received more attention for trying to dodge proper process ,than if he had done it right the first time? Too close to main dwelling. Improper footing depth and I don't recall what else. Lightning hit it and of course raced into his house through the shallow wire run to barn partly as a result of it being so close , but more for his not wiring it better. Blew up a lot of equipment...
> Across the street from him ,the township supervisor stopped to measure my setback and dimensions on my finished polebarn and after a brief talk about a deer I had hanging he said "I trust you" and did not measure.
> But everything was on the up and up all along too....
> This was the same supervisor I complained to when the zoning changed from Ag to residential with my purchase. I would not have bought it if no livestock was allowed.
> He told me my having stock depended on my neighbors. And I said good ,they have no complaint...
> And he heard no complaints about it.
> Otherwise , ordinance variance would have needed to be sought , and/or a special use permit.
> But the townships residents (especially neighbors) can weigh heavily on if it gets approved when a change is sought....


 Crazy you mention your zoning suddenly changing upon buying the property because ours did too! Really though, it's not the township changing it, it's the realtor who incorrectly listed it. Ours was listed AG when in fact it was low density residential, so we can farm but not have a business, which is a bit of a deal killer since that HAD been our intent.


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## Suzanne C

bigdude said:


> My wife and I are looking to buy a property with acreage and put a small cabin on it. We cannot afford to have a conventional home built so we are considering a pre-made Amish-type cabin with around 500-600 square feet. Even though I am referring to it as a “cabin”, we plan on having electricity, septic tank and a well. The challenge is finding a municipality with zoning that allows smaller dwellings. I have been spent countless hours researching different counties and townships and have found a few that allow “mini-cabins”. I have also found some that have no zoning ordinances at all.
> 
> The current problem I am attempting to solve involves building codes. The township we are considering will allow dwellings no matter how small which is great! But an Amish-type pre-made cabin will not meet building codes that are designed for stick built homes. Do I simply have the foundation poured and then put the cabin on it without pulling permits? What can happen down the road when authorities discover a cabin on our property and no building codes will applied for? I am concerned that local authorities could force me to tear it down or label it "uninhabitable".
> 
> Please note, I am not attempting to evade paying property taxes or avoid paying permit fees. We just want a smaller vacation home because my wife and I do not have kids (among other reasons). If not pulling building permits simply means I ends up paying the permit fees plus fines, I have no problem with that.



I came upon this post because I am doing this right now. For our township (Nelson) a building must be OVER 200 sq ft to need a building permit. However, eletrical permits DO need to be pulled regardless, even if run on solar or battery power.

In a nutshell, it was ok for the kids to have a sleepover in it (provide smoke detector to be safe) but anything more would require a zoning permit and a seperate address.

You CAN ask the Amish to build it to code. Find out how much square footage you legally need and get creative, maybe some lofts? MAKE SURE TO CHECK ON YOUR CABIN while it's built. I went through a contractior/sales guy and said I wanted it with 16" studs and etc etc. NOTHING I asked for was completed, except a "full size" door. It wasn't full size but had been cut down. The guy had promised 2-4 weeks, it took 12. The Amish in Michigan are awful builders who don't care about craftsmanship. While mine had LOTS of major flaws, I've seen plenty others FAR WORSE by other companies offering Amish sheds.

You are right, these things are being pumped out, the guy even told me he sells a large size cabin every 2 weeks. Where are they going? I don't know . . .

I live on a 1 mile long road and this year 5 sheds were delivered here, including mine.

For what it's worth, mine is getting spray-foamed and finished with hardwood boards and fancy lighting. It's going to be my office, and maybe I'll rent it out down the road as a weekend "cabin". We'll see! (By that I mean, I'll cautiously approach the township about it  )


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## Chessieman

Waif said:


> Expect a new structure to be noticed. If not right away ,eventually.
> 
> Knowing the codes helps avoid multiple problems getting up to code later. (After failing an inspection when noticed.)
> A footing not deep enough=headache.
> A structure not beyond setback requirements =headache.
> Weatherhead the wrong height=headache.
> Roof pitch wrong if code is specific... " ".
> Snow load wrong = " ".
> 
> Save the headaches by doing it right the first time. And avoiding "re-work" or worse.
> 
> A former neighbor...Thought he was getting away with certain things besides a polebarn built without a permit ,while the township took aerial pictures/notes.
> Guess who received more attention for trying to dodge proper process ,than if he had done it right the first time? Too close to main dwelling. Improper footing depth and I don't recall what else. Lightning hit it and of course raced into his house through the shallow wire run to barn partly as a result of it being so close , but more for his not wiring it better. Blew up a lot of equipment...
> Across the street from him ,the township supervisor stopped to measure my setback and dimensions on my finished polebarn and after a brief talk about a deer I had hanging he said "I trust you" and did not measure.
> But everything was on the up and up all along too....
> This was the same supervisor I complained to when the zoning changed from Ag to residential with my purchase. I would not have bought it if no livestock was allowed.
> He told me my having stock depended on my neighbors. And I said good ,they have no complaint...
> And he heard no complaints about it.
> Otherwise , ordinance variance would have needed to be sought , and/or a special use permit.
> But the townships residents (especially neighbors) can weigh heavily on if it gets approved when a change is sought....


 Waif, with the small amount of acreage you have I would not have been surprised with no AG rating. In the Thumb around here everybody that uses a Amish cabin mounts them on 12' I-Beams. This way they are movable (3" every 5 years) and do not require permits. I should note that I am sure this would be rated as AG land, maybe someone can pipe in if their rating is recreational in the Thumb.


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## Waif

Chessieman said:


> Waif, with the small amount of acreage you have I would not have been surprised with no AG rating. In the Thumb around here everybody that uses a Amish cabin mounts them on 12' I-Beams. This way they are movable (3" every 5 years) and do not require permits. I should note that I am sure this would be rated as AG land, maybe someone can pipe in if their rating is recreational in the Thumb.


That switch from ag to residential happened at my former homestead. Not my hunting property. Which I'm not even recalling if my hunting property is zoned residential now....

One township supervisor (from a different township than my land) said , if you don't have a problem ,don't worry about it.
But in my former friends case with the polebarn , it cost him a lot of time and labor to correct his violations.
Had he at least studied the required codes he'd have been better off by knowing what would pass muster.


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## junkman

I have heard that there are a few municipalities that are granting building permits for tiny homes.Always worth checking into.


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## brushbuster

junkman said:


> I have heard that there are a few municipalities that are granting building permits for tiny homes.Always worth checking into.


I just heard the same thing. About time.


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## Waif

Suzanne C said:


> Crazy you mention your zoning suddenly changing upon buying the property because ours did too! Really though, it's not the township changing it, it's the realtor who incorrectly listed it. Ours was listed AG when in fact it was low density residential, so we can farm but not have a business, which is a bit of a deal killer since that HAD been our intent.


You could research a zoning variance.
It can depend on your neighbors and other owners in the area.

I intended having stock and would not have bought the parcel if I'd known ag. was being phased out as grandfather clauses faded with transfers of property ,and I discussed that with the board. 
That depends on your neighbors if you seek a variance was the answer.
I said great , we all get along.
Chickens thrived there with no complaints from neighbors anyways...Had there been complaints I'd have sought a variance. 
( No , I don't advocate zoning non compliance.)


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## junkman

In the near future I will be looking for some hunting property and will be checking out places that are tiny home friendly.


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## Luv2hunteup

This may help. 








No state oversight of planning, zoning; limited central database of zoning ordinances


While there is no state oversight of planning and zoning, there is a statewide database of zoning ordinances in Michigan.




www.canr.msu.edu


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## Spartan88

I talked to the county a few times about sheds and the timeframe required to finish a full size cabin. Decided a 200 square foot shed was the best option right now. The inspector was helpful and answered my questions.


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## Ronnie D

Just an idea, single and double wide modular homes fall under trailer classifications. No bldg. permits needed until main utility hookups


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## Foryseph

I don’t know how much “do it yourself” urge, motivation, and skill you have, but if I was going to build something off-grid but wanted it to be quality and code, I would look at a log home kit. Well done ones tend to hold their value, and it could be plumbed and wired, all set up for connection to “mains” or connection to a stand-alone solar system. They come with plans, materials, how-to documents, and (usually) you can have the manufacturer put it together for you if your skill or enthusiasm don’t make the grade. You will have to do your own foundation and do quality work because logs are heavy. The overall costs tend to be about the same as building a regular home to the same finish standard. There are a bunch of suppliers available in Ontario, some in the north. Google “Pete Suen” and see what hits you get.


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## BumpRacerX

Luv2hunteup said:


> This may help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No state oversight of planning, zoning; limited central database of zoning ordinances
> 
> 
> While there is no state oversight of planning and zoning, there is a statewide database of zoning ordinances in Michigan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.canr.msu.edu


Certain townships in Oscoda County are the ones you're looking for if you want to go the Tiny Home route. Notice the white and grey areas on the map in this link. As always...check the with the township before making plans...but back when I was in the construction business in the area these were anything goes. Maybe it's changed now. Who knows. 

It's a great thing if you want to try the tiny home life or buy 20 acres and slap up an Amish building/tiny home. It's a not so great thing when you build your nice retirement home and the people on the parcel next door create a small trailer park by bringing in every "free" 1960's singlewide they can get their hands on.


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## Martin Looker

Our new neighbors bought a 40 in the middle of the section. Then they built a house with no permits. For a kind of payback they started a forest fire which brought in the fire department and someone on the department also works in the building department. Now the fun begins. They also found a stolen truck back there.


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## Steve

Looks like Lake country is wide open.


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## mofo

I’m in sanilac county, been also thinking of getting a small cabin instead of old camper, I been in for 25 years. going to call tomorrow, my land is considered recreational,,Ag all woods


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## Lucky Dog

If you want to stay on the right side of the codes you really need to ask / involve your township officials. Asking here will only muddy the waters since township / county codes vary wildly.


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## jmich24

Ogemaw County is in the process of adding a “Tiny Home” provision for the county. I spoke with the building department. They are hashing out the details, hoping to get something set by late summer.

Information I gathered from my conversation.

400 sq ft minimum.
Foundation/permits required.
Nothing on wheels

To me the only change was really going from 720 sq ft minimum to 400 sq ft.


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## WilEcoyote63

MossyHorns said:


> Don't do it without a permit. Someone down the end of our road had put one up and within a month the township had it removed. The bottom line is that these cabins don't meet building codes. Our township in Lake County requires a permit for anything over 200 sft.


While many new residents are putting up structures the county here Lake,is starting in on them. This is unzoned Cherry Valley Township. So if you know the area and as one comment above stated its to protect you and your investment. You don't want trash next to you. Yet that is exactly what exists and has for many years.. unsightly junk yards .more than a couple. And yet it appears the county has no power over it. Plus squatters,people setting up camp on pvt land and yet they cannot seem to do anything about them either. Apparently if you ignore them there seems to be little done.


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## OscarRosario

Hmm, that's a very interesting project. And with it, you can calculate the creation of monolithic houses? Monolithic houses are a popular trend in the real estate market. This construction technology has both pluses and minuses. That they now dominate the real estate market is a fact. So I wonder how the creators of this project approached this problem. I know that if the concrete deteriorates, it can be repaired. I know of several companies that do this. Here is one of them almightyconstructionnw.


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