# GSP vs. EP



## rmd24 (Jul 3, 2008)

Just a quick question for all of you experienced bird dog owners - 

First a little background:
I am planning on getting a new pup in the Spring. I am looking at either a GSP or an EP. I have previously owned weims, but want to try something new. My wife isn't much of a dog fan, but loves our weim. She is not very happy about me wanting another dog, but caved in on the idea. I want a dog that is going to be calm in the house, yet birdy as all hell in the field. It also has to be great with kids, because my two are small 8 and 3. 

So here is my question:
I pretty much have my mind made up on which way I am leaning, but what breed would you recommend that best fits the description above....a GSP or an English Pointer?


----------



## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

Both great breeds but which ever you choose explain to her that neither will be "calm in the house" for a couple years.

I vote GSP.


----------



## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

I own both, and both are great in the house. Remember that whichever breed you get, you'll have to endure the dog as a crazy puppy for a while.

Hunting-wise, the pointers are significantly less interested in fur than my GSP. My GSP has super prey drive, but my pointers (I've only hunted one of them as a mature dog) typically produce many times more birds than my GSP probably due at least in part to their extreme athleticism. 

The pointers also have a much wider natural range, but also maintain contact with me on a regular basis. The pointers are generally much more staunch on point as well as I've never been able to eliminate the creep in my GSP. As a consequence, the GSP is a better pheasant dog because she handles the runners better, whereas my pointers are (and the new pup will be) much better grouse dogs where staunchness is critical. If retrieving is extremely important to you, the GSP is probably a better choice, although I've heard about a number of pointers who supposedly retrieve like a lab.

I love my GSP and like the breed, but she's probably the last one I'll own.


----------



## Gina Fox (Nov 4, 2007)

rmd24 said:


> Just a quick question for all of you experienced bird dog owners -
> 
> First a little background:
> I am planning on getting a new pup in the Spring. I am looking at either a GSP or an EP. I have previously owned weims, but want to try something new. My wife isn't much of a dog fan, but loves our weim. She is not very happy about me wanting another dog, but caved in on the idea. I want a dog that is going to be calm in the house, yet birdy as all hell in the field. It also has to be great with kids, because my two are small 8 and 3.
> ...


 
Vizsla  smaller, birdy, easy to train and will be a lap dog in the house. They LOVE kids... 

Good luck with what ever you decide on. A new pup is a LOT of fun (and work) prep your bride and keep that dog exercised whichever you choose.


----------



## lakergrad (Aug 2, 2002)

GSP vs. EP? 

All I can say is...... here......we......go


----------



## Firemedic (Apr 5, 2005)

2ESRGR8 said:


> I vote GSP.


 
Really? I am a little suprised Scott.


----------



## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

Firemedic said:


> Really? I am a little suprised Scott.


 I think he could find a foot hunting line maybe known for closer working that would closely resemble the mannerisms his Weim has.
Seems to be pleased with the Weim so why not try to duplicate it only with a different paint job.
That was my thinking.


----------



## Scott Berg (Feb 24, 2008)

rmd24 said:


> Just a quick question for all of you experienced bird dog owners -
> 
> First a little background:
> I am planning on getting a new pup in the Spring. I am looking at either a GSP or an EP. I have previously owned weims, but want to try something new. My wife isn't much of a dog fan, but loves our weim. She is not very happy about me wanting another dog, but caved in on the idea. I want a dog that is going to be calm in the house, yet birdy as all hell in the field. It also has to be great with kids, because my two are small 8 and 3.
> ...


RMD24,

You left out some very important criteria. What type of hunting you do. What percentage A) Ruffed Grouse; B) Pheasant; C) Prairie Birds (Sharptail, Prairie Chicken & Huns; D) Quail; E) other. Also, how much preserve hunting you do.

What type of range do you prefer. In general short, medium or big going.

SRB


----------



## GSP Gal (Nov 12, 2005)

Scott Berg said:


> RMD24,
> 
> You left out some very important criteria. What type of hunting you do. What percentage A) Ruffed Grouse; B) Pheasant; C) Prairie Birds (Sharptail, Prairie Chicken & Huns; D) Quail; E) other. Also, how much preserve hunting you do.
> 
> ...


That would help, but I have seen both breeds do the same range.

I think Findthebird had some valid points, but with any luck, my GSP will be killer on grouse.  She ranges big, so we work on staunchness.


----------



## rmd24 (Jul 3, 2008)

Scott Berg said:


> RMD24,
> 
> You left out some very important criteria. What type of hunting you do. What percentage A) Ruffed Grouse; B) Pheasant; C) Prairie Birds (Sharptail, Prairie Chicken & Huns; D) Quail; E) other. Also, how much preserve hunting you do.
> 
> ...


Grouse, Pheasant and woodcock. I don't do a ton of preserve hunting. Only a couple times per year. The majority is grouse/woodcock hunting. I prefer medium range.


----------



## k9wernet (Oct 15, 2007)

My next dog will be one or the other and I can't honestly say I'm leaning toward either breed. 

I currently own both and love both. I guess my advice is to watch a few in the field, find a breeder or sire or dame that you like, and go for it. I'm sure the "experts" can make generalizations about the breeds' differences, but you could easily wind up with an exception that throws those generalizations out the window.

In my limited experience, the EP has been more staunch on birds and more independent in general. She's a good family dog, but is perfectly happy to spend the entire day chasing butterflies and tweety birds in the back yard. The GSP is a bit more social and affectionate. After an hour or so outside, she'll sit at the back door and whine. She's right at my heels when I'm walking around the house doing chores. She's plenty birdy but has had trouble holding birds, especially grouse.

Both are active dogs that you should plan to exercise regularly and not just as puppies. Mine are both 5 and if we go more than a few days without some rigorous exercise things get a little wild in the house!

KW


----------



## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

Pointers are generally natural bird finders and great family dogs with low aggression levels. Like FindTheBird said, they usually aren't too interested in fur either. I own two, one is 17 months old and the other is 7 months. As puppies they are a handful but they get over it as they get older. They are not a breed that can be left to just sit around the house all day and be expected to be calm in the evening however. You really need to make sure they get some exercise (not just a walk) for them to be the house dogs they can be. If you have property they can run on, then you're set. If not, go find the nearest park to run them in.

At least in the case of my older Pointer, I've found them to be wide ranging dogs, but they do check in.

Lastly, Pointers really are one of the last unspoiled hunting breeds out there. There are few of them in the show ring and many bred for the field. That said, if you want a closer working one, it might be worth your while to find someone who breeds a blend of the two as show Pointers, the ones that are hunted at least, are known for being closer working.

I have no experience with GSP's and have nothing against them. I've just been happy with my Pointers and probably won't ever deviate from the breed unless I get into duck hunting. But for a newbie to the breed, there are things to consider, like their exercise requirements, that you should think on


----------



## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

Im far from an expert but would tend to lean more toward the line of dog or breeder is going to be of more importance when you compare these two breeds for your needs. For all intensive purposes the dogs have mostly the same traits and characteristics with variances being in the blood lines.

We all see GSP's that hunt wide and some that hunt close. We see some GSP's that are aggressive and some that are not........some more wild than others.......etc etc. Same holds for the EP.

I would explore both breeds and breeders and find a mating that suits your needs best. If it ends up EP, cool....or GSP....cool.

If calm is a criteria i think neither will be so for a few years. Im told Drahts are a bit calmer; as is my Brittany. My GSP is a year old and more on birds now.....and more wild than when he was 5 months old.


----------



## Bonz 54 (Apr 17, 2005)

Pointer. You can ask Firemedic, he's been to my house and seen the girls. They just love people, especially babies. Whenever anyone comes to the door, they will first run and get a toy to bring to the door. Just incase whoever is there wants to play and didn't bring their own toy.:lol: They are pretty high energy for the first couple of years, but what puppy isn't. The two that I have are driven retrievers and it doesn't matter if it has feathers or not, a ball is just fine thank you. Which is alot of fun for the whole family. I have been using them exclusively on Grouse and Woodcock, but I hope to head out West this fall and try some other birds. Their range can be adjusted two ways. Buy a dog from Grouse stock or rein them in with training. I prefer the former than the latter. Part of being a good citizen in the house is crate training. Start them young and keep at it. We have no problems with other critters in the house. Ofcourse our Cat thinks he's a dog. Alittle smaller and a funny sounding bark, but he makes up for it in spirit. The girls pretty much respect him. 

That is another thing, I would suggest a female if at all possible. IMHO they make better house dogs and are equall to if not better than males as hunters. I hope you'll notice I haven't said anything against the GSP's. I have friends with GSP's and they are fine dogs. They just wouldn't be my choice. Whatever you decide Good Luck. FRANK


----------



## up-hunter (May 19, 2007)

from what i've found out in research you might best suited with a elhew pointer, there are some good kennels out there like hampshire, autum memory i beleave it is, or you could just call bruce minard and see what he thinks with your criteria.

good luck in your search


----------



## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

they share some common heritage, but the older european style german shorthair and the pointer are two very different dogs. the american style of german shorthair found in horseback trials falls somewhere in between the two.

make your choice based on what characteristics are important to you. my only advice for a grouse hunter is, there are kennels of pointers that are excelling at grouse trials. those traits transfer very well to grouse hunting.


----------



## chewy (Mar 27, 2006)

FindTheBird said:


> I own both, and both are Hunting-wise, the pointers are significantly less interested in fur than my GSP. My GSP has super prey drive, but my pointers (I've only hunted one of them as a mature dog) typically produce many times more birds than my GSP probably due at least in part to their extreme athleticism.
> 
> The pointers are generally much more staunch on point as well as I've never been able to eliminate the creep in my GSP. As a consequence, the GSP is a better pheasant dog because she handles the runners better, whereas my pointers are (and the new pup will be) much better grouse dogs where staunchness is critical. If retrieving is extremely important to you, the GSP is probably a better choice, although I've heard about a number of pointers who supposedly retrieve like a lab.
> 
> I love my GSP and like the breed, but she's probably the last one I'll own.


 
ohhh here we gooo.... probably the only one you have owned.. your dog creeping is from either two things.. pooor breeding or pooor training.... 

I have gsps that are just as athletic as pointers... 

Pointers can retreive just as well as any other breed. again its training... 

Both are awesome breeds... 

GSPs there are a couple different types.. big and slow or small and fast

Range is not breed specific either.. 

Again both are awesome dogs you wont be dissapointed with either.


----------



## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

chewy said:


> ohhh here we gooo.... probably the only one you have owned.. your dog creeping is from either two things.. pooor breeding or pooor training....


Nice shot, I was just passing on my personal experience (I thought that I made that clear in my post--sorry if I confused anyone). I can say (again in my personal experience) that my pointers were significantly more staunch right out of the box at a very tender age. 
Chewy, how are your pointers coming along?


chewy said:


> I have gsps that are just as athletic as pointers...


You're an experienced bird dog guy and I'm sure you're right. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the breed as a whole has literally never proven it in organized competition via the AA FDSB *all breed* (notice I said all breed) horseback trials--or even the walking coverdog or walking shooting dog trials for that matter. It would be very cool to see them buck that trend however--Anybody listening?


chewy said:


> Pointers can retreive just as well as any other breed. again its training...


While we're on the subject of training, I distinctly remember reading about a bird dog trainer who taught a 3 legged, aging German Shepard to point birds...
I can't disagree with your comment, and as I suggested, there are also some pointers out there who don't require force breaking or any other intensive method to make them do it.


chewy said:


> Both are awesome breeds...
> ...Again both are awesome dogs you wont be dissapointed with either.


I totally agree.


----------



## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

chewy said:


> ohhh here we gooo.... probably the only one you have owned.. your dog creeping is from either two things.. pooor breeding or pooor training....
> 
> I have gsps that are just as athletic as pointers...
> 
> ...


Chewy, I understand what you're getting at here, but if I may, I think you're doing GSP's something of a disservice here.

Because they're used so widely in all sorts of field trials Pointers are bred to run run and run with someone on a horse chasing after them in a lot of cases. One of the appealing things about a GSP is that many, if not most, are more for the walking hunter. Both can hunt all day long, but one lends itself to a comfortable range more than the other for many people I think.

The retrieving game is a whole other thing. Both my Pointers will retrieve decently. But it's nothing compared to a lot of Labs I've seen that do it naturally.

I do however agree that both breeds are great regardless.


----------



## Gina Fox (Nov 4, 2007)

chewy said:


> your dog creeping is from either two things.. pooor breeding or pooor training....
> 
> quote]
> 
> ...


----------



## Merimac (Jan 17, 2006)

up-hunter said:


> from what i've found out in research you might best suited with a elhew pointer, there are some good kennels out there like hampshire, autum memory i beleave it is, or you could just call bruce minard and see what he thinks with your criteria.
> 
> good luck in your search



I dont get it... Do you think there is only one style Elhew? If you go to any kennel you will see a ton of difference with in the litter. It is like saying all of Scott Bergs dogs or Lloyd Murrays dogs are the same. 

What dog out of Elhew are you thinking fits his criteria?

Ben McKean


----------



## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

I'll chime in here with my thoughts. My experience is pretty limited with pointers (about 6 weeks to be exact). But at any rate here are the reasons I decided to make a change. I will first talk about my shorthairs.

They are great family pets, especially my female. Both were early developers and my female has been a real good bird dog and retriever. My male has always been a creeper but, that is solely my fault.

Both dogs have high prey drive for both fur and feather. Neither is great in the heat but, my male is better. Both run pretty good (within 175 yards and usually around 100 according to my Astro).

The reasons I decided to go to a pointer are some of the negatives about shorthairs. Fur, heat tolerance being the main two. I would say both of my shorthairs are good athletes but, not compared to most pointers. I have heard that well bred pointers (like Find the Bird said) staunch up more easily than shorthairs.

Again, I don't know if all these things about pointers are true but, I do know there is a reason why pointers and setters dominate in the bigtime trials. I didn't buy out of real hot trial stock but, she seems like she is going to be a pretty good moving dog.

Just to put my 2 cents worth in. I think shorthairs are great first bird dogs. Easy to train, tough enough that they can overcome some mistakes by handlers and are great family pets. Just buy from a good proven breeder and you'll have a great dog for many years to come.


----------



## midwestfisherman (Apr 19, 2001)

2ESRGR8 said:


> I think he could find a foot hunting line maybe known for closer working that would closely resemble the mannerisms his Weim has.
> Seems to be pleased with the Weim so why not try to duplicate it only with a different paint job.
> That was my thinking.


Just goes to show, Scott is not breed blind...........






yet.... :evilsmile


----------



## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

BIGSP said:


> she seems like she is going to be a pretty good moving dog.


Any recent happenings that bring you to this conclusion? :evilsmile :lol: :lol:


----------



## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

midwestfisherman said:


> Just goes to show, Scott is not breed blind...........
> 
> 
> yet.... :evilsmile


Like James Earl Jones says, _welcome to the dark side Luke_.


----------



## Rudi's Dad (May 4, 2004)

I have had GSP's for over 30 yrs, only one or two at a time though.
They are all different, the younger of my two is a closer working dog than Ive had before and now that I am 60, I am enjoying this. 
Just shop breeders, ask what temperment of dogs they breed, and walk away from those that have "the wrong" dogs.
Shop carefully, there is a GSP line that is what you want, just be careful in choosing. Seeing the Sire and Dam away from the puppies to get a feel for their personality and drive is a huge plus. 
I rate the dogs personality equal to hunting abilities. My dog has to be a house dog and the wife has to be happy with puppy for many years.


----------



## ScottSki (Sep 6, 2004)

GSP or EP ???
I have both, let me put it to you this way.....
Everything I read and almost everything other people told me about both dogs I found to be pretty true.
My pointer is beautiful, a really great hunting dog,but... he's not dog friendly, he's distroyed $487,000 worth of my stuff, anyone else would of shot him 3 times over!
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD GET A GERMAN SHORTHAIR POINTER!!!!
See Scott T. and crosswinds kennel, Maybe MI.


----------



## Flash01 (Jun 12, 2008)

FindTheBird said:


> However, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the breed as a whole has literally never proven it in organized competition via the AA FDSB *all breed* (notice I said all breed) horseback trials--or even the walking coverdog or walking shooting dog trials for that matter.


1. The OP does not own horses (at least that is not indicated in his post).

2. I wonder what Scott at Crosswind Kennel would say about the "never proven in an organized competition" part.

People do love "thier" dogs. I have two gsp's and love them both... but would feel the same way about a pointer if I had that too I am sure.

Pick a good breeder and off you go.


----------



## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

Flash01 said:


> 2. I wonder what Scott at Crosswind Kennel would say about the "never proven in an organized competition" part.


You completely glossed-over the key part of that statement:


> ...via the AA FDSB *all breed* (notice I said all breed) horseback trials--or even the walking coverdog or walking shooting dog trials for that matter.


Obviously, Scott and others have some superb GSPs who win like crazy in several trial venues and who are also extremely athletic. My point was that (to my knowledge) nobody has proven their GSP's in the all breed, FDSB events where extreme endurance and athleticism are factors. 



Flash01 said:


> People do love "thier" dogs. I have two gsp's and love them both... but would feel the same way about a pointer if I had that too I am sure.


...and one of "my" dogs is a GSP and I feel the same way--unfortunately, not all breeds are identical, which was the original point of this thread.


Flash01 said:


> Pick a good breeder and off you go.


Absolutely.


----------



## Firemedic (Apr 5, 2005)

rmd24 said:


> Just a quick question for all of you experienced bird dog owners -
> 
> First a little background:
> I am planning on getting a new pup in the Spring. I am looking at either a GSP or an EP. I have previously owned weims, but want to try something new. My wife isn't much of a dog fan, but loves our weim. She is not very happy about me wanting another dog, but caved in on the idea. I want a dog that is going to be calm in the house, yet birdy as all hell in the field. It also has to be great with kids, because my two are small 8 and 3.
> ...


 
I'll tell ya what. You give Scott Townsend from Crosswind a call, and I am sure he will be more than happy to show you both breeds. I trained with him yesterday and he ran a few GSP's, a Britt and a pointer. I promise you, within 5 minutes you will be able to make a solid decision on what fits YOU.


----------



## BradU20 (Jan 17, 2005)

Firemedic said:


> I'll tell ya what. You give Scott Townsend from Crosswind a call, and I am sure he will be more than happy to show you both breeds. I trained with him yesterday and he ran a few GSP's, a Britt and a pointer. I promise you, within 5 minutes you will be able to make a solid decision on what fits YOU.


Best advice so far. 

You can wade through all the BS you want to on this site, from your buddy or any group of dog guys. 
But....nothing takes the place of seeing the actual animal on the ground doing its thing.


----------



## Grouseman2 (Dec 28, 2001)

Firemedic said:


> I'll tell ya what. You give Scott Townsend from Crosswind a call, and I am sure he will be more than happy to show you both breeds. I trained with him yesterday and he ran a few GSP's, a Britt and a pointer. I promise you, within 5 minutes you will be able to make a solid decision on what fits YOU.



What were the major differences between the GSP & Pointer breeds that would enable him to make such a decision? From what I've seen out of Scott's GSP's I'm not sure there is much of a difference between them & pointers. 

Mike


----------



## Unregistered4 (Dec 11, 2004)

WestCoastHunter said:


> Lastly, Pointers really are one of the last unspoiled hunting breeds out there.


And...just what are you trying to say here...???



















This pointer looks *mighty* spoiled to me...lol

Of course...we have a few setters around that get the same treatment.

Back to the question. 

I'd say it also depends on whether or not you do much late season hunting. Or expect any water work out of your new dog...especially, cold water work. 

Brian.


----------



## Firemedic (Apr 5, 2005)

Grouseman2 said:


> What were the major differences between the GSP & Pointer breeds that would enable him to make such a decision? From what I've seen out of Scott's GSP's I'm not sure there is much of a difference between them & pointers.
> 
> Mike


I never said just _Scott's _GSPs. He also had a few clients shorthairs that were at various stages of training. I know just watching a few shorthairs and a pointer or two, I would be able to make a decision that would suit me, i.e. biddability.


----------



## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

Again......its just as much the particular bloodline as it is the breed when comparing these two dogs.


----------



## Grouseman2 (Dec 28, 2001)

Firemedic said:


> I never said just _Scott's _GSPs. He also had a few clients shorthairs that were at various stages of training. I know just watching a few shorthairs and a pointer or two, I would be able to make a decision that would suit me, i.e. biddability.


Biddability is a breed specific trait, eh?


----------



## Firemedic (Apr 5, 2005)

Grouseman2 said:


> Biddability is a breed specific trait, eh?


 
If you want to pick apart everything I have spoken about, be my guest. The guy asked a simple question as to which would suit him, not what everyone else would own. I told him to go look at a few dogs, and the only reason Crosswind came up was because he has multiple breeds/lines currently in his kennel, with all different levels of training. It seems you have more time to question answers instead of giving your own.


----------



## oilcan (Feb 10, 2007)

wow that pointer gets to drink Bud light, he must be in training.


----------



## Grouseman2 (Dec 28, 2001)

Firemedic said:


> If you want to pick apart everything I have spoken about, be my guest. The guy asked a simple question as to which would suit him, not what everyone else would own. I told him to go look at a few dogs, and the only reason Crosswind came up was because he has multiple breeds/lines currently in his kennel, with all different levels of training. It seems you have more time to question answers instead of giving your own.


Didn't feel I needed to give a redundant response as there was already some very good advice given. 


Mike


----------



## Tecumseh (Aug 13, 2004)

ScottSki said:


> GSP or EP ???
> My pointer is beautiful, ... but... he's distroyed $487,000 worth of my stuff, anyone else would of shot him 3 times over!


 
I know what you mean brother. Shoes, pants, shirts that I am wearing while taking a nap:yikes:.


----------



## S.E.M.O.R.E. (Nov 1, 2008)

Both are fine hunting breeds. The better the trainer the better the dog. This applies both in the field and in the house. I have seen both breeds as complete destructive vicious idiots and others model dogs. The difference was their owners and histories.

I stay away from line breeders. I have purchased two shorthairs from the same breeder 14 years apart, same bloodline, I have a great great niece to my first one. Hell on wheels, and like a reincarnation, only better. Excellent natural instinct, retrieved from the beginning, excellent nose, obiedience is excellent, desire to please, great around kids, people, yet a force to be reckoned with if you dare try getting in my vehicle or house. I have no doubt anyone attempting to hurt my family wont make it through the door. You will be told if you get too close, otherwise youre monitored closely and wont even know it, only barks with good reason. I have paced her with my atv and GPS at 29mph for over 1/4 mile, and she will gait 15mph all day long far as I can tell. Steady and strong in the field, and bursts of speed come out of nowhere when a bird flushes. Birds dont get a chance to bounce if they get hit. Finds cripples with ease where others couldnt. Will be 5 this fall. Very strong and very fast, and she is on the small side dimension wise, but weighs 62 pounds, and no fat. 

Has an ESP that continually surprises us. Sneaky like I have never seen before. Personality is submissive, but she knows how to push buttons and get her way. Stubborn in a good way most times, and a test of patience other times. You have to experience it to appreciate it, I wont waste your reading time here. 

I have friends that swear by setters and they get lots of birds, and have really good dogs. Most of them have had their dogs professionally trained. My shorthairs have held their own alongside those dogs, I am not going to say one or the other was superior, cause it changes hunt to hunt and dogs have good and bad days too. I feel I have had more good days than bad, but I am prejudiced. Drawback to the setters in my view is the burrs and coat maintenance. 

Guaranteed, about the time you tell your buddies how great your dog is, you take them out to show off and the dog becomes an idiot. You dont need to brag up your dog, they do it all by themselves. Save youself the embarassment. Been there done that. 

Preference is a female vs. male. Females seem to respond quicker, and easier to break if necessary, and more aggressive and responsive. Males more stubborn. BUT, Males have more drive and endurance in my view. 

Sorry for the lengthy post..hope it helps..good luck with your choice.

Pics of my shorthair in profile.


----------



## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

S.E.M.O.R.E. said:


> ...she will gait 15mph all day long far as I can tell.


That's a blistering pace over a full day and is probably very competitive with the top horseback trial dogs in the country.
I've run my new pointer a couple times with a recently-purchased Garmin Astro and it shows him covering about 10 miles in a one hour run at about 10 months-old.

One thing that I don't think anyone has touched-on is the availability of the two breeds. GSP's are far and-away the most popular pointing breed available--just in my neigborhood, I know of 5 or 6 within 1/2 mile of my house. This provides the buyer with enormous availability and choice compared to the relatively few local pointer breedings.

Here are a couple videos of two of my three dogs, the first of my GSP pointing a woodcock during Spring training, and the second of my newest pointer at 12 weeks-old pointing a pigeon.
http://pws.cablespeed.com/~mlareau/Mocha_Spring_Woodcock_4.wmv

http://pws.cablespeed.com/~mlareau/RockPoint_4M.wmv


----------



## rmd24 (Jul 3, 2008)

I went to check out Scott's place yesterday. He pretty much sold me on a GSP after he ran a few dogs out of Fritz. This is the way I was leaning when I posted the original post.


----------



## Firemedic (Apr 5, 2005)

rmd24 said:


> I went to check out Scott's place yesterday. He pretty much sold me on a GSP after he ran a few dogs out of Fritz. This is the way I was leaning when I posted the original post.


 
So when are you getting the pup? 

The shorthair in my avitar is a son of Fritz and Katelyn. I have another pup on the way, just not sure which Crosswind's breeding I am going with yet. Good luck with your pup!


----------



## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

rmd24 said:


> I went to check out Scott's place yesterday. He pretty much sold me on a GSP after he ran a few dogs out of Fritz. This is the way I was leaning when I posted the original post.


You won't be disappointed: congrats, keep us posted on the pup's progress and above all, post some pictures!


----------



## slammer (Feb 21, 2006)

FindTheBird said:


> That's a blistering pace over a full day and is probably very competitive with the top horseback trial dogs in the country.
> I've run my new pointer a couple times with a recently-purchased Garmin Astro and it shows him covering about 10 miles in a one hour run at about 10 months-old.
> 
> One thing that I don't think anyone has touched-on is the availability of the two breeds. GSP's are far and-away the most popular pointing breed available--just in my neigborhood, I know of 5 or 6 within 1/2 mile of my house. This provides the buyer with enormous availability and choice compared to the relatively few local pointer breedings.
> ...


Too bad those pointers usually grow into their tails. I prefer a short stout tail just because it usually stays straight but I love the looks of those big long tails on pointers.


----------



## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

Firemedic said:


> I never said just _Scott's _GSPs. He also had a few clients shorthairs that were at various stages of training. I know just watching a few shorthairs and a pointer or two, I would be able to make a decision that would suit me, i.e. biddability.


I think it's a little unfair to compare breeds when the representative dog for a breed may behave specific to how the breeder it came from breeds the dogs and not the breed as a whole.


----------



## rmd24 (Jul 3, 2008)

Firemedic said:


> So when are you getting the pup?
> 
> The shorthair in my avitar is a son of Fritz and Katelyn. I have another pup on the way, just not sure which Crosswind's breeding I am going with yet. Good luck with your pup!


I am going to wait until next spring. He has a litter their now, but those are all sold.


----------



## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

slammer said:


> Too bad those pointers usually grow into their tails. I prefer a short stout tail just because it usually stays straight but I love the looks of those big long tails on pointers.


On a related note, I've noticed a big difference in the actual circumference of the tails between different pointers. For example, my older dog has a fairly thin tail at the base, while the new one (now) is pretty thick.


----------



## chewy (Mar 27, 2006)

findthe bird if i use your logic on determining the characteristics of dogs,

My friend had a gordon setter. it died of cancer... therefore all gordon setters will die from cancer.. 

The truth to the matter is,, the breeding is what matters not the breed itself.. 

Tails on pointers are thick or thin... same with shorthairs.. its the breeding... certain lines have certain characteristics

My point to my post was that you cant look at one dog and make an assumption that all dogs in that breed are that way... 

I like pointers and i will probably buy one at some point.. 

I never mentioned anything about horseback so i will save that for another day...


----------



## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

I just see the tail being a problem in the house the first year of the dogs life..........i would have stuff broken and shattered.


----------



## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

Chewy, you're over-analyzing and I have to respectfully disagree with the insinuation that the various breeds of bird dogs are relatively generic. 

My logic is basically this: most people shop for dogs beginning with a single or small number of breeds, because there's something about that breed (s) that they like, or conversely, something about other breeds that they don't like. The presence and acknowledgement of these differences establishes a baseline of performance, behaviour, abilities, looks or whatever geeks the buyer about the breed. 

From that baseline, the buyer can then choose where he buys the dog, looking at both breeders and lines. It's on this point that I think that we can both agree that you can potentially find some big differences between lines/breeders and yes, you could see some characteristics of one breed (including performance) bleeding through to another.


----------



## FieldWalker (Oct 21, 2003)

S.E.M.O.R.E. said:


> Guaranteed, about the time you tell your buddies how great your dog is, you take them out to show off and the dog becomes an idiot. You dont need to brag up your dog, they do it all by themselves. Save youself the embarassment. Been there done that.


Amen to that...


After 4 pages... there is about 6 post on this thread worth reading... the rest are the same people arguing about the same **** from every other post they participate in. 

You'd think with all the tail conversations out there that this longer is better (but heaven forbid too long and result in a curl) talk really isn't about the dogs tail... but instead your..... egos... At least the tail conversation took a little different twist this time... some talk about girth...

Edit-- not that there has been much hating on short-tailed dogs on this thread... I just couldn't resist bringing up the girth reference.


----------



## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

FieldWalker said:


> ... I just couldn't resist bringing up the girth reference.


 Are you missing a Y chromosome? :lol:


----------



## FieldWalker (Oct 21, 2003)

2ESRGR8 said:


> Are you missing a Y chromosome? :lol:


Actually... I think having XY chromosomes is what makes me have to respond to the reference of "thickness" -- I think most people that are XX would find it disgusting to talk about (but the real benifactors of the girth in which I joke about).

(I can already hear the Wikipedia pings from people whom have forgotten biology)


----------

