# Oaks under rated



## chasmo54 (Feb 2, 2006)

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Just how important are Oaks as part of a wildlife habitat plan?
I know of no conservation plans written by any recognized conservation district, by a qualified forester or conservation habitat planner that would not include oaks if your property didn't have any unless you live on a house boat!
Trees, bushes and plants that are from the Woody's (have bark) family have long lives and produce fruit and nuts for many years without yearly soil amendments, disking, eradicating weeds, adjusting pH levels, fertilizing, replanting, mowing, spraying, purchasing seed, tractors, spreaders, seeders, cultipackers and the list go on and on needed for Food plot establishment and maintance. It's all about food. Tree's and shrubs that produce a wide range of food types require very little to none of your time to maintain once established, with the added bennifit of paying you back at harvest or when you sell the property. 
They are a beautiful thing!


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## wecker20 (Mar 10, 2004)

But are a pita to establish, will not see any return in our lifetime(kids and grandkids may) and it's a question if they will be good producers if at all. My grandparents land has plenty of oaks and there's years w/o any nuts. Animals still survive w/o them. For myself I will not mess w/ planting any hardwood tree, except for a few apple trees, because of the work involved to be sure they live. Mother nature is doing most of my work for me and I'll continue to let her be. I have numerous young oaks, cheery, maple, and other trees starting to grow on their own. Oh, and I don't have a producing oak tree on this particular 80. I do think oaks are important and would be nice to have but there are other food sources that animals will depend on when there are little to no acorns in the fall. Deer and turkeys around here prefer beech nuts over acorns anyways. Maybe beech trees are under rated and over looked....???:16suspect


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

wecker20 said:


> Maybe beech trees are under rated and over looked....???:16suspect


I'd agree with you that Beech trees are under-rated. They are, however, even more sporadic producers than oaks are; still, when you do get a bumper crop of beech nuts, they are a huge draw while they last. Since beech nuts are far less acclaimed than are oak acorns, yes, I'd call 'em under-rated.

I also agree with you about the work involved in establishing hardwood trees (by the way, apple trees may be worse:yikes: ); I'd recommend it only for guys that live on their hunting property and can more conveniently tend to things like weed control for the first three years or so.

Now, if you're looking for a soft-mast producer that establishes fairly easily, much more so than apple trees, I'd give pears a shot. I have had some success growing hybrid pears which produced their first fruit in about five years. Used 4ft. tree tubes.


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## G-Vac (Sep 20, 2004)

wecker20 said:


> But are a pita to establish, will not see any return in our lifetime(kids and grandkids may)


There's an ancient proverb (Chineese I believe) that says "Societies grow great when old men plant trees whose shade they will never sit under."


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## Gopher13 (Jan 5, 2011)

Oaks are under-rated and under-planted, mostly on the mistaken impression they are slow growing and slow to bear acorns. When planted properly and given everything they need to thrive, they grow WAY faster than most people think. Planting a mix of oak species along with other hard mast trees ensures a more consistent annual crop of nuts that will drop over a much longer period of time every spring.
Hybrid oaks often grow even faster and produce acorns earlier than "pure breds."
More importantly, if we don't plant them now they won't be there for our grandchildren!


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## Gopher13 (Jan 5, 2011)

I have found that Mossy Oak's Nativ Nurseries is a great source for fast-growing, early-producing hybrid oaks, as well as carefully selected "pure bred" species oaks grown from acorns harvested from parent trees (mother trees - you never know who the father is ) with desirable characteristics... fast growth, HUGE acorns, early/late acorn drop, etc.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

On public land around here they cut them down and plant jack or red pines........If we are lucky they just come back up in poplar.


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## LarryA (Jun 16, 2004)

I questioned the DNR one time regarding the harvest of only mature oak trees on state land. The response I got was that they needed to increase the browse.

Apparently, they don't frequent the woods this time of year after a good mast crop. Right now the deer and turkeys are hammering the acorns, and this is a scene I have seen repeated over many years.

Yes, oaks do not get the attention they should.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

2 years ago they wacked 20 acres of 18"dia oaks that were fairly open with lots of underbrush/browse right next to my house... 5' from my garage wall and planted 6" tall redpines.


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## anon442018 (Jul 12, 2010)

Just for the sake of discussion, would you suggest they leave them until they die? There is a chance of sprouting and/or new trees coming up with the increase in sunlight. All trees are finite.


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## bishs (Aug 30, 2000)

I may be one of the only guys on this site, that has planted oak seedlings, that our now producing acorns. The crop was light, but I was surprised they produced acorns this fast. The private land biologist I worked with told me to expect acorns in 20 years, well they appeared in 16 years. In 94, I planted 1-2 foot oak seedlings, White oak, Northern Red oak, and Pin oak. "Pin oak is also a member of the oak family". They were planted in the spring in soy bean stubble. They grew well with little to no weed control. Since then I have planted oaks in weeded areas, and given them little attention. These have not faired as well. I have oaks popping up all over, and seem to do best when they find their own location. 

White oaks grow very slow. They are half the size of the red oaks. I am pretty skeptical of all the "Hybrid" oaks. I have not seen anyone who has experienced super gropwth or early acorns as advertised. Red oaks will grow 2 foot a year with ease.


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## anon442018 (Jul 12, 2010)

You may find that water is *the limiting factor* for getting your oak seedlings and saplings to survive. I do not know what the situation is there but I do have some experience with getting them to succeed. The first couple of years you may not see much growth but then they will go. I have put tree spikes near them and I just leave a hose barely dripping after the soil is moistened. The results have been very good. Next year I plan on planting more Oak saplings. Once trees have reached about 4-4.5 ft. of height they will be considered viable. Getting the trees to that height is a task. In the wild their environment can be quite stressful. All is takes is a couple of deer to browse on them. Keep working on the seedlings you are doing well.


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## dakota48 (Nov 28, 2008)

I planted English oak trees from Coldstream in 2000 that were 5 ft tall with about a half inch or larger diameter in Saginaw county..A couple of these trees are going to be about 20 ft-30 ft high this year with about a 5-6 in diameter.Unbelievable..They have been producing acorns that are at least 1 inch long.
Deer will eat these acorns before a white oaks.And they produce every year, I believe, minus possible late frost..I could probably hook a ladder stand to them this year..The English oak has a shorter life expectancy than native oaks..I have good and moist soil at this sight and 100 percent sun from the south..Plus fertilizer..and fenced..If you do not have oaks on your property,planting several of these may help draw wildlife..

Kevin H..


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## anon442018 (Jul 12, 2010)

That is great, the soil in Saginaw county is a big help and the English Oak is in the White Oak family and that probably accounts for the preference by the deer. The combination of soil, water, and fertilizer goes a long way to adding to the success of the trees. There were some on the campus at MSU and sometimes you could have used a shovel to clear the acorns. I will keep that in mind this spring when I order some trees. Thanks very much for the information.

How much space did you leave between the trees?

Stinger


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## Joedirt (Dec 3, 2010)

swampbuck said:


> On public land around here they cut them down and plant jack or red pines........If we are lucky they just come back up in poplar.


Aw come on man...... would you really rather have the oaks than the jack pines. You now have the opportunity to see the illussive Kirkland warbler :evil:

My property is in NW Ogemaw county, its sickening to see what happens to the land over a handfull of birds.


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## anon442018 (Jul 12, 2010)

Perhaps you should plant oak seedlings on your property and you can amaze the DNR foresters when you have oaks producing acorns. It would be amazing, most of the soils in NW Ogemaw county are not that good. But give it a shot, you will benefit from your own efforts.


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## boostfan (Feb 7, 2011)

I got into the property market late last summer, I found a spot with a lot of maturing oaks. It was an important selling point to me but I this year will tell me a lot more.


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## ruger223 (Feb 2, 2010)

I was at a meeting regarding the closure of semi primitive and primitive areas within the Huron and Manistee National Forest to any sort of rifle hunting a few weeks ago. I had got off topic for a moment and while speaking with the ranger at Huron Shores Ranger Station in Oscoda. She stated that in their management plan, trees that are to be harvested for Kirkland Warbler habitat had to be fifty years of age. West of Mikado to Glennie thousands of acres of hardwood forest primarily Oak and a coniferous mix have been clear cut to establish habitat for this bird. I am fine with that, however if the thing won't nest in a jack pine that is much over six feet, tall why can't they rotate the jack pine stands rather than cut down more hardwoods. Somebody please explain this to me!


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## anon442018 (Jul 12, 2010)

I think there may be a master plan somewhere which deals with acreage in the plan. You might find out when the plan was put into effect. Lands withing the jurisdiction of buth the USFS and the MDNR are included in the plan. You might try contacting the MDNRE-Wildlife Division in the Roscommon Unit. The Wildlife Biologist there should be able to help with any questions. I believe the phone number there is (989) 275-5151 and ask for the wildlife biologist, Mark R. Boerson, his extension is #2730. He works for you and should be able to provide you with any answers you need. I hope this helps. There are more KW now than in the past.


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## Forest Meister (Mar 7, 2010)

Stinger4me said:


> That is great, the soil in Saginaw county is a big help and the English Oak is in the White Oak family and that probably accounts for the preference by the deer. The combination of soil, water, and fertilizer goes a long way to adding to the success of the trees. There were some on the campus at MSU and sometimes you could have used a shovel to clear the acorns. I will keep that in mind this spring when I order some trees. Thanks very much for the information.
> 
> How much space did you leave between the trees?
> 
> Stinger


 
Several years ago I started some English Oak from acorns obtained on the MSU campus. Some were put in the ground and pretty much ignored and some were put in a small tilled row where they did not have to compete with other plants. The ones in the sod were about 12" to 15" high several years later; some were only a few inches high. In the area with weed control the EO grew like.......weeds! Once started, those trees grew about a foot or so each spring and put on another growth spurt in the fall of about two feet or more. Unfortunately part of the fall growth would frost back most winters.

Give 'em plenty of sun and a bit of weed control until they are a few feet high and you should have acorns in less than 10 years.

How far apart to plant them? If you grow your own from acorns Id start them in a small bed for ease of weed control, maybe six to eight inches apart and plant them out at a foot and a half or so. Less if they look crowded. 

As a general rule the more open the crown the better the acorn production. If using your own seedlings they could be planted ten feet apart and thinned as necessary once it can be seen which ones are doing the best once their crowns start to grow together. If paying a lot of money for trees go wider and put a spruce between each one and shear it for use as a Christmas tree! FM


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