# OK went the crossbow route and got bored, now what?



## Sasquatch Lives (May 23, 2011)

Had a few shoulder issues and got a Wicked Ridge crossbow and hunted with it for the past 3 years. Very impressive piece of equipment and very accurate. Took one nice buck with it. BUT, I have found crossbows to me are very boring to target shoot and not very satisfying for hunting. My shoulder is much better now and part of the problem is my old bow was 72# with a 35% letoff. With one of the newer bows with the higher letoff, shooting one should be no problem. 

I don't like the new super high tech parallel limb bows and want a more traditional looking compound with the high letoff. Overwhelmed by all the choices. Totally out of the loop now with bow manufacturers. Where should I begin looking?


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## thill (Aug 23, 2006)

Sasquatch Lives said:


> Had a few shoulder issues and got a Wicked Ridge crossbow and hunted with it for the past 3 years. Very impressive piece of equipment and very accurate. Took one nice buck with it. BUT, I have found crossbows to me are very boring to target shoot and not very satisfying for hunting. My shoulder is much better now and part of the problem is my old bow was 72# with a 35% letoff. With one of the newer bows with the higher letoff, shooting one should be no problem.
> 
> I don't like the new super high tech parallel limb bows and want a more traditional looking compound with the high letoff. Overwhelmed by all the choices. Totally out of the loop now with bow manufacturers. Where should I begin looking?


Unless you have a good reason for not liking parallel limb designs, I'd recommend you give them a chance and go to a bow shop and start shooting as many bows as you can get your hands on. Chances are you'll find something you'll like.


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## Pier Pressure (Dec 21, 2008)

What don’t you like about parallel limbs?


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## Mole Hill (Jul 15, 2020)

Always can get a long bow or recurve, don't own any compound or crossbows. 30# minimum preferably 40# good luck.


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## 454casull (Jan 6, 2005)

What’s your draw length, at least what was it for your current bow?


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## Joe Archer (Mar 29, 2000)

You will find that even entry level bows will out perform older bows. You can spend $350 to $1000 + and get a great piece of equipment. 
Parrallel limbs may not be eye candy, but the design leaves modern bows dead in your hand upon release.
<----<<<


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Select a few choice staves and put them up properly to cure.
Study the art of the bowyer in the meantime.
Then build a couple bows!

Check out a couple archery shops or more and test /shoot thier newest wares.
Been awhile , but the last new bow buy was neither of the bows I had been eyeing a while.
Simply by how what I ended up with shot.
I care little how a bow looks if it suits me shooting it. I appreciate nice cosmetics as much as the next guy. But the shot matters far more still.


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## 454casull (Jan 6, 2005)

OP, still like to know your draw. Let off is not the issues here it’s your shoulder. If surgically repaired or fixed through therapy you need to take care of it. Proper fit is a huge part of this. Cam design, if you are just a deer hunter you don’t need anything over 60# but some 60# draw like 70# because of their design. Faster bows load up real fast and you pull full weight longer. All that energy is stored and unleashed when you break the shot. Others are not as fast but give you plenty of speed but have a much smoother draw which is better for your shoulder. Proper DL makes sure you have the most leverage available against the draw cycle. So if you have a longer DL you can back off on the poundage and maybe choose a stiffer cam, or, if short draw you use a milder cam at higher poundage. This is what today’s bows offer. Parallel limbs, I don’t like them because my press doesn’t work, otherwise you are missing out on most of the bows on the mkt today, evolve brother!


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## Bucket-Back (Feb 8, 2004)

My shoulder lasts for a few weeks of target shooting . Then around the end of September , it acts up .

I use a re-curve crossbow now.


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## Sasquatch Lives (May 23, 2011)

Pier Pressure said:


> What don’t you like about parallel limbs?


I just don't like the space age look of them. I like the benefits of compounds but not the cut out risers and parallel limbs. Maybe I should try shooting some.


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## Sasquatch Lives (May 23, 2011)

454casull said:


> OP, still like to know your draw. Let off is not the issues here it’s your shoulder. If surgically repaired or fixed through therapy you need to take care of it. Proper fit is a huge part of this. Cam design, if you are just a deer hunter you don’t need anything over 60# but some 60# draw like 70# because of their design. Faster bows load up real fast and you pull full weight longer. All that energy is stored and unleashed when you break the shot. Others are not as fast but give you plenty of speed but have a much smoother draw which is better for your shoulder. Proper DL makes sure you have the most leverage available against the draw cycle. So if you have a longer DL you can back off on the poundage and maybe choose a stiffer cam, or, if short draw you use a milder cam at higher poundage. This is what today’s bows offer. Parallel limbs, I don’t like them because my press doesn’t work, otherwise you are missing out on most of the bows on the mkt today, evolve brother!


OK its a 30" draw. My last compound was a Pearson Spoiler 72# with 35% letoff I believe. Got it when I was 24 and I'm 56 now haha. Love the bow and it still shoots good. Shot a bunch of deer with it over the years just too rough to pull back anymore. Maybe I should evolve!


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## Pier Pressure (Dec 21, 2008)

Sasquatch Lives said:


> I just don't like the space age look of them. I like the benefits of compounds but not the cut out risers and parallel limbs. Maybe I should try shooting some.


Parallel limbs are a huge design advantage. They help to eliminate forward jump and hand shock on the shot. They’re also incorporated with a longer riser making a much more stable platform. Shoot a few. I think you’ll like what you find.


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## 454casull (Jan 6, 2005)

Ok so given 30" and back when those bows were the SHEEEET everyone's draw length was too long. However, 29-30" gives you a big performance advantage due to a longer power stroke, (draw minus brace height). You could go aggressive with the cam but less poundage and get deer killing performance without shoulder killing effort. While not a PSE fan they do have a very good performing cam on their Evo and Drive lines. Quest makes the Thrive and for the money it's one of the best values out there. No idea what your budget is but I would look at 33-34" ATA, 6.75 - 7.0+ brace heights. Mission has some good entries too. As most have stated you will find the new bow designs do not want to jump out of your hand, limbs fire up/down versus forward. what you will find interesting is that the new designs will force you to use your back more, this is good since it forces you to use proper form. If you creep the string will want to go. 80% letoff is a game changer, when you let down it sometimes feels that you will have to push the string forward. Set a budget, I would account for nothing coming over from your Spoiler just so you are covered. I'd recommend a drop away but if you went the biscuit way just get one that has vertical and horizontal adjustments, you will thank me later. Releases have come a long way too. Lots of smooth drawing bows out there but as I stated make sure the draw length is correct, makes all the difference in drawing and shooting accurately. Oh and I'm 60 in April so you're not telling me anything new! Success with both bows in my sig this season.


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## 454casull (Jan 6, 2005)

Sasquatch Lives said:


> I just don't like the space age look of them. I like the benefits of compounds but not the cut out risers and parallel limbs. Maybe I should try shooting some.


To your point some of these bow are downright ugly, look at the gearhead line first then everything else will be sexy in comparison. Designs were driven by market demands and this is what you get when engineering advances take over. Today you can have speed, silence, pin point accuracy and durability without compromise. Shot a Hoyt Super Slam Fast Flight @ 84# until 2010.


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## BigWoods (Jul 6, 2003)

Probably get laughed at but if you want a smooth drawing bow that is easy on the shoulders, look at an Oneida.


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## 454casull (Jan 6, 2005)

I agree but there are better bows for the money and good luck finding someone who knows how to work on them.


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## BigWoods (Jul 6, 2003)

They are one of the easier bows to work on actually. No press needed to totally disassemble and reassemble. Youtube has good vids showing all you need.


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## Sasquatch Lives (May 23, 2011)

454casull said:


> Ok so given 30" and back when those bows were the SHEEEET everyone's draw length was too long. However, 29-30" gives you a big performance advantage due to a longer power stroke, (draw minus brace height). You could go aggressive with the cam but less poundage and get deer killing performance without shoulder killing effort. While not a PSE fan they do have a very good performing cam on their Evo and Drive lines. Quest makes the Thrive and for the money it's one of the best values out there. No idea what your budget is but I would look at 33-34" ATA, 6.75 - 7.0+ brace heights. Mission has some good entries too. As most have stated you will find the new bow designs do not want to jump out of your hand, limbs fire up/down versus forward. what you will find interesting is that the new designs will force you to use your back more, this is good since it forces you to use proper form. If you creep the string will want to go. 80% letoff is a game changer, when you let down it sometimes feels that you will have to push the string forward. Set a budget, I would account for nothing coming over from your Spoiler just so you are covered. I'd recommend a drop away but if you went the biscuit way just get one that has vertical and horizontal adjustments, you will thank me later. Releases have come a long way too. Lots of smooth drawing bows out there but as I stated make sure the draw length is correct, makes all the difference in drawing and shooting accurately. Oh and I'm 60 in April so you're not telling me anything new! Success with both bows in my sig this season.


Interesting. Will never get rid of the Spoiler, sentimental value. Will look into those you mentioned. Smoothness is what I am after.


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## 454casull (Jan 6, 2005)

Bowtech had some smoother bows too I’ve heard. The smooth is so subjective. That’s why most of us see shoot as many as you can. Just remember many of these may not be perfectly synced and have a little vib at the shot. You will have issues with the grips too, most new bows want a low wrist, sounds like work and it is but you will shoot better than you ever have once everything shakes out.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

Most new bows are very quiet,fast and dead in the hand. But they lost me when they went shorter and lower brace heights. Been shooting bows for dang close to 50 years now. I prefer longer axle to axle lengths like 40 inches plus with at least a 7 inch plus brace height for best accuracy . These new bows shoot great in the shop at 10 -20 yards but once I got back home and hit my range that's when the issues arouse. Groups scatterd like quail for me. While I can take one of my older bows like a cheap Golden Eagle Orion that is 42 inches ATA ,9 inch brace height with 65% let off and drive takes at 40 yards. I struggle with the newer bows that are under 32 ATA sub 7 inch brace height and 80% let off. Also the grips are another issue for me.
Guys will chime in and say well you have bad form. Maybe I do,maybe I don't. But none of the deer ever complained.
That's been my experience with newer bows in the compound world, but everyone is different. Not bashing them just saying everyone is different. Good luck in your search.


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## Joe Archer (Mar 29, 2000)

Sasquatch Lives said:


> I just don't like the space age look of them. I like the benefits of compounds but not the cut out risers and parallel limbs. Maybe I should try shooting some.


Sure looks purdy to me.








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## Sasquatch Lives (May 23, 2011)

Joe Archer said:


> Sure looks purdy to me.
> View attachment 636031
> 
> <----<<<


No offense but I hate it. That thing looks way too fragile to hang with me in the woods.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

Never seen a componund and thought, man that pretty lol. Now traditional bows on the other hand


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)




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## 454casull (Jan 6, 2005)

Sasquatch Lives said:


> No offense but I hate it. That thing looks way too fragile to hang with me in the woods.


If durability is your concern then your perception is way off. Billet stock versus a casting isn’t even a fair comparison. Billet is so much stiffer and in most cases lighter. Same with the cams. My Hoyt cams were solid, the mass is why they weren’t fast compared to today’s bows. If the engineered solutions really bother you that much you are SOL. You could go older used but you are no further ahead. Trad equipment is cool, some bows are more spendy than a compound. Now sure it’s the right choice if shoulder issues are a concern. So what are your thoughts on carbon arrows?
Stick, no surprise you like longer ATA, 40” in a hunting bow is going to be hard to find. My Primal is 32” and my limit. 33-34”, maybe even 35” as stated earlier are a good compromise. Another thing, if you are super worried about 6.75-7” brace heights don’t be. 6-7” today is so more shootable than the beasts of yesterday.


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## Captain Happy (Mar 17, 2002)

Curious of what would the draw weight is about on the traditional bows?


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## Sasquatch Lives (May 23, 2011)

454casull said:


> If durability is your concern then your perception is way off. Billet stock versus a casting isn’t even a fair comparison. Billet is so much stiffer and in most cases lighter. Same with the cams. My Hoyt cams were solid, the mass is why they weren’t fast compared to today’s bows. If the engineered solutions really bother you that much you are SOL. You could go older used but you are no further ahead. Trad equipment is cool, some bows are more spendy than a compound. Now sure it’s the right choice if shoulder issues are a concern. So what are your thoughts on carbon arrows?
> Stick, no surprise you like longer ATA, 40” in a hunting bow is going to be hard to find. My Primal is 32” and my limit. 33-34”, maybe even 35” as stated earlier are a good compromise. Another thing, if you are super worried about 6.75-7” brace heights don’t be. 6-7” today is so more shootable than the beasts of yesterday.


The riser looks like crap imo but I'm sure it is strong. The wheels are what I am concerned about. I would probably dent or break them or knock the string off them they look pretty fragile.


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## 454casull (Jan 6, 2005)

Mathews “Waffle” has been the butt of jokes for years. They still shoot but like you not a fan of the aesthetics. I wouldn’t worry about the cams unless you like to throw your equipment or like to drop your bow a lot. I’m going on 11 years with my newer equipment and I hunt a bunch, never been an issue.


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## pgpn123 (May 9, 2016)

454casull said:


> You will have issues with the grips too, most new bows want a low wrist, sounds like work and it is but you will shoot better than you ever have once everything shakes out.


Had to look up what low wrist was. The Pearson Spoiler was my favorite bow ever. It has a high wrist (or forward angle grip) which I loved! It made the whole bow. Whenever I pick up a new bow it's what I look for, and none seem to have it. Also just saw there are after market grips out there. Going to see if I can find one for my compound. I hope you're wrong 454, lol (you seem very knowledgeable). What little I read it sounds like hand placement repeatability is key. I'm thinking if it's more comfortable and feels right I'll be fine. We'll see.


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## 454casull (Jan 6, 2005)

pgpn123 said:


> Had to look up what low wrist was. The Pearson Spoiler was my favorite bow ever. It has a high wrist (or forward angle grip) which I loved! It made the whole bow. Whenever I pick up a new bow it's what I look for, and none seem to have it. Also just saw there are after market grips out there. Going to see if I can find one for my compound. I hope you're wrong 454, lol (you seem very knowledgeable). What little I read it sounds like hand placement repeatability is key. I'm thinking if it's more comfortable and feels right I'll be fine. We'll see.


Google GRIVs thing a week #12, shows how to use Sugru to build up your grip. Most of the ready to go grips are for the mitigation of torque, GRIV has a video on that as well. I’ve probably worked on grip or better stated hand position the most, may finally be at a point where it doesn’t change every 60 days! Remember the bow shoots the arrow, we have to let it do it’s job.


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## CDN1 (May 27, 2018)

Anything new will be miles ahead in feel from what you have shot in the past. Stick to 7" brace heights and longer axle to axle length 33-35". These new bows offer so many options and adjustability you will find some thing you really like. And shoot well. One thing that no one but you can describe is a bow draw cycle. 
You need to go shoot as many as the bow shops will let you. 
Not sure where your price point is so hard to suggest a bow. PSE seems to be the most diverse ( makes some thing for everyone) manufacturer, bowtech would be a close 2nd


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## ErieH2O (Jan 24, 2018)

If you are looking for traditional looking bow, from a camo standpoint, Bear has a Fred Bear camo that is very classic looking.


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## Biggbear (Aug 14, 2001)

If you get a traditional bow you won't be bored. Frustrated at times maybe, but never bored.


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## Sasquatch Lives (May 23, 2011)

pgpn123 said:


> Had to look up what low wrist was. The Pearson Spoiler was my favorite bow ever. It has a high wrist (or forward angle grip) which I loved! It made the whole bow. Whenever I pick up a new bow it's what I look for, and none seem to have it. Also just saw there are after market grips out there. Going to see if I can find one for my compound. I hope you're wrong 454, lol (you seem very knowledgeable). What little I read it sounds like hand placement repeatability is key. I'm thinking if it's more comfortable and feels right I'll be fine. We'll see.


Yeah my favorite bow ever too. Would still be shooting it if the letoff wasn't only 35%. I don't understand what "high wrist" or "brace heights" are? What are they? I was watching a popular hunting show with some pro hunting chick with one of those high $ super giant wheel bows and she snagged it on some brush and when she pullled it free it popped the string off! This kind of crap won't fly with me. I need something bulletproof.


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## 454casull (Jan 6, 2005)

__





Get a grip


Grip choices to increase bow accuracy




www.gohunt.com





This will show you what high, medium and low grips look like.
Brace height is the string position to the deepest part of the grip at rest. Direct impact on shootability and speed. It’s and element of the bows power stroke calc. 29” of draw with 7” brace is a 22” power stroke. Shorter DL say 26” is a 19” power stroke. All else equal the longer DL will always produce more speed. So, is lunch free?? No, the longer the power stroke the longer the arrow is on the string and the bigger risk that the shooter will influence arrow flight. You can shoot a 5” brace bow but your form better be machine perfect. This should help you get more current. Big cams in brush could be a problem but if it happens with a larger cam it will also happen on a smaller cam.


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## pgpn123 (May 9, 2016)

She must have got it caught just right and really pulled on it. 35% isn't much. I had my Spoiler about 10 years.
I made a bow vice (copied), have some Sugru coming, and also bought some epoxy putty. Seeing what I can do for a higher wrist. Think I'll try the more flexible Sugru first. Made some quick basic wood handles to see what angle might feel best. Watched a couple videos. Any advise? I'm thinking I can always go back to original if all fails, but hoping for more comfort.


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## 454casull (Jan 6, 2005)

While a bow should not be painful or a strain to shoot, the biggest factor is repeatability of hand position and pressure. High grips can be more subject to “heeling”, more pressure at the bottom of the grip with the joint area of the thumb. Olympic Recurve shooters tend to use more contact, from the looks of some they spend a lot of time and trials until they get it right for their style.


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## pgpn123 (May 9, 2016)

I remember that old bow really had the ahh factor. Seemed like a V shape instead of a barely slanted I. I'll see what happens, can always go back. Now's the time to mess around. Didn't even know you could modify the grip, I'm a little excited about it.


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## 454casull (Jan 6, 2005)

Deflexed risers were the most accurate with a high wrist grip configuration, they looked and acted more like recurves. When companies started going straighter this high and medium grips became quirkier. Welcome to the world of bow tinkering, you’ll learn more playing around and experimenting than you ever thought you could. Not directly at you but more of a general statement, if you look at the crossbow specs they always call out the power stroke. As they have figured out how to go from 11-12” to 14-16”+ the speeds have skyrocketed and some with far less poundage. Not the single reason but it’s all part of the solution.


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