# Mercury Electric Outboards



## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

sureshot006 said:


> They definitely are fine for use. They just can't charge too cold.


I would to do an experiment, with an auger, to see how much longer the battery would run at 70F compared to 10F. I know it does not matter that much due to the type of use involved, it would just be interesting


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> I would to do an experiment, with an auger, to see how much longer the battery would run at 70F compared to 10F. I know it does not matter that much due to the type of use involved, it would just be interesting


Yeah people like to keep a spare in a coat pocket just in case.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

sureshot006 said:


> Yeah people like to keep a spare in a coat pocket just in case.


I have an electric snow thrower. It does a good job. I use it on a SMALL area, just a concrete pad in front of the garage and my concrete patio. It would NOT handle my entire driveway/parking area. If the snow is deep enough I have it plowed. 

IF the entire area I need to clear was concrete, I would have a gas thrower.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Torqeedo!




bowhunter426 said:


> your just as bad as DS. It doesn't fit my use case so it's stupid. Like those tiny Boston Whalers people pay stupid money for so they can putz around the marina. Stupid!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My entire lawn fleet is electric, so it has its application. My Toro will do my lot twice on a charge. As for a primary on a lake you best bring some oars


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

piketroller said:


> I don't understand the similar to a 3.5 hp claim or whatever it is. 750W shaft power is just barely more then 1 hp. Rated HP on outboards is measured at the prop shaft with a +/-10% tolerance. It sounds comparable to a 24V trolling motor with a lithium battery, only this one has an integrated battery and runs at 48V. The video of it pushing a 12' Lund surely isn't showing performance on par with a 3.5 HP outboard.


Wondered the same thing and looked into it. 3.5hp comes with a 7 3/8 Dia x 6" pitch prop. 7.5e had a 12.4" Dia x 9" pitch prop. 

3.5hp. 6000 rpm at crank. 2790 at prop. Torque unknown

7.5e. RPM unknown. To Match speed of the 3.5 the prop needs to spin at 1860 rpm. Works out to just under 4Nm of torque. Completely doable for a 750W TFM motor put out that level of continuous torque. 

My calculations are likely off slightly due to the number of unknowns and no loss assumptios, but if we take the HP=Torque x RPM/5252 with the 7.5e numbers
HP =2.85ftlb x 1860/5252 = 1 HP = 750W.

Similar speed and acceleration to a 3.5hp outboard. Feel free to fact check these calculations


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

Shoeman said:


> Torqeedo!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is the key. The proper tool for the job. Everything has it's place.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

bowhunter426 said:


> Wondered the same thing and looked into it. 3.5hp comes with a 7 3/8 Dia x 6" pitch prop. 7.5e had a 12.4" Dia x 9" pitch prop.
> 
> 3.5hp. 6000 rpm at crank. 2790 at prop. Torque unknown
> 
> ...


The largest capacity batter noted on the OP was 1276WH. IF I understand this correctly, that is not much run time.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

All this math stuff spins my brain. Can someone explain this stuff in plain old 'Merican? In other words, how long can I run my motor. I know with my 24V trolling motor I can run it at about 1/2 speed, to produce about 1.5MPH, on my 21' PolarKraft. My batteries are [email protected] IF I trolled non-stop, they last 3-4 hours, depending on wind and current.









Thrust to Horsepower: Easiest Conversion for Boaters


Is there a relationship between HP and thrust? Yes, you can easily convert pounds of thrust to horsepower with the method inside for trolling motor, but in an estimated way. Check out the result of 30/50/55/100 lbs of thrust to horsepower.




electricboatingtips.com


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

How to calculate the Watt Hours (Wh) of a lithium battery – BatteryGuy.com Knowledge Base


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## piketroller (Oct 24, 2016)

bowhunter426 said:


> Wondered the same thing and looked into it. 3.5hp comes with a 7 3/8 Dia x 6" pitch prop. 7.5e had a 12.4" Dia x 9" pitch prop.
> 
> 3.5hp. 6000 rpm at crank. 2790 at prop. Torque unknown
> 
> ...


The amount of prop slip at low and even moderate speeds quickly make doing calculations like this for comparison basically worthless. Generally prop design is skewed for it to hook up the best with relatively low slip (<10%) at rated speed. The prop curve is not linear, so it has to be optimized for a certain speed, and no motor manufacturer want's their 3.5 hp motor to be significantly slower than a competitor, so everything is biased towards rated power. The new electric motor should have a prop designed for minimum slip at it's rated condition, and obviously because it's a lot bigger prop, it's going to be at a lower speed. When the 3.5 hp gasser is running part throttle with only 1 hp load on the propshaft, it probably is slower than the electric one, Even the prop on a 12V trolling motor is a lot bigger than a small gasser. But comparing the performance of this new electric outboard at rated power to a gasser at less than rated is just marketing BS.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

What it boils down to is this. My same boat, same 115HP rating. How long can I run on electric, compared to gas? Will I have to call a tow boat sooner with gas or electric?


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## piketroller (Oct 24, 2016)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> What it boils down to is this. My same boat, same 115HP rating. How long can I run on electric, compared to gas? Will I have to call a tow boat sooner with gas or electric?


Head east out of LEMP with your gasser. When you run the tank empty and it stops, use the electric to head back west. Then when the batteries are dead, call the tow boat and find out how long the tow is back to the dock. Then you will have your answer and can tell us all about it.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

piketroller said:


> Head east out of LEMP with your gasser. When you run the tank empty and it stops, use the electric to head back west. Then when the batteries are dead, call the tow boat and find out how long the tow is back to the dock. Then you will have your answer and can tell us all about it.


LOL! 

The ONLY problem with that idea, although it would be fun, is that I don't have a 115HP electric motor or the battery system to power it. I KNOW my "current" electric trolling motor won't bring me in. 

We can try it, in July, assuming I am walking good enough to run the boat, just so I can be out on the Lake again. It's been over a year since I even put the boat in the water.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

I got an even funner idea! MAYBE some of those who say that we HAVE to switch to electric can do this:

Take my existing boat, put in a battery that weighs equal to, or less, and with equal to, or greater range, in the same space as my gas tank. Put an electric outboard on it, with equal HP ratings, then lets fish all summer and we will see how it goes. At your cost of course.


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## Bucman (Jun 29, 2016)

Solar power it like Andy on life below zero..


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

piketroller said:


> The amount of prop slip at low and even moderate speeds quickly make doing calculations like this for comparison basically worthless. Generally prop design is skewed for it to hook up the best with relatively low slip (<10%) at rated speed. The prop curve is not linear, so it has to be optimized for a certain speed, and no motor manufacturer want's their 3.5 hp motor to be significantly slower than a competitor, so everything is biased towards rated power. The new electric motor should have a prop designed for minimum slip at it's rated condition, and obviously because it's a lot bigger prop, it's going to be at a lower speed. When the 3.5 hp gasser is running part throttle with only 1 hp load on the propshaft, it probably is slower than the electric one, Even the prop on a 12V trolling motor is a lot bigger than a small gasser. But comparing the performance of this new electric outboard at rated power to a gasser at less than rated is just marketing BS.


I didn't do the calculations at low or moderate speeds for the motor. I did them at max speed which should have the lowest amount of prop slip. 

They used a larger diameter prop on the electric to bump acceleration and a high pitch to get speed and they can get away with it because of a higher torque output at lower RPM.

The Torqeedo 1003 is a 1000 Watt motor and in numerous tests by RIB manufacturers it comes in just below the performance of a 3.5Hp merc for speed and acceleration. Is it as good as the 3.5hp. No but it is dang close and I would consider that similar. 

Is it marketing BS? A 32 foot Hellkat with twin 300Rs will run 115 to 118mph. A similar HellKat boat with changes to support twin Electric 180 HP outboards ran 109MPH.

The 180E puts out 288 lb ft of torque which is very close to the 300r. 

Last time I checked torque turned a prop.

Horsepower sells a boat. Torque is what moves a boat


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

bowhunter426 said:


> I didn't do the calculations at low or moderate speeds for the motor. I did them at max speed which should have the lowest amount of prop slip.
> 
> They used a larger diameter prop on the electric to bump acceleration and a high pitch to get speed and they can get away with it because of a higher torque output at lower RPM.
> 
> ...


Any, normal type, aluminum boats, like you find out on Lake Erie being built for electric? If so, cost?


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## piketroller (Oct 24, 2016)

bowhunter426 said:


> I didn't do the calculations at low or moderate speeds for the motor. I did them at max speed which should have the lowest amount of prop slip.
> 
> They used a larger diameter prop on the electric to bump acceleration and a high pitch to get speed and they can get away with it because of a higher torque output at lower RPM.
> 
> ...


Torque moves the boat. Horsepower is what determines how fast it moves. Maybe this is shining a light on just how terrible small outboards make use of their shaft power. The mercury electric won't do anything that can't already be done with a regular transom mount trolling motor and a lithium batter except hide the wire that connects them. The mercury will probably cost a lot more.

The marketing video I saw didn't show any bow rise at all on the 12 foot Lund. I ran a 3 hp Bucaneer on a 12 foot boat as a kid, and a 4 hp Johnson as a teenager. Both of those motors would start lifting the bow when you opened them up. Neither had any chance in hell of getting on plane, but they still pushed that size of boat past the displacement speed where the nose started lifting a little. I find it very odd that a video supposed to help sell this thing doesn't show that level of performance.


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> Any, normal type, aluminum boats, like you find out on Lake Erie being built for electric? If so, cost?


I haven't looked and don't really care too as it would be a boat that doesn't fill a need for me. 

I have no interest in converting my Bass Boat to electric as the technology isn't at a price point that makes it affordable and it won't fit my use case.


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## TC-fisherman (Feb 15, 2003)

Have a torqeedo 1003 for 6 years. will it do everything? No. Is it great at what it does? Yes. Amount of any kind of maintenance in 6 years. Zero.

want to plane or go fast, not for u.

super high torque, I’ve towed a bigger boat with my dinghy and the other owner was in disbelief.

the ability to start or go in reverse just by turning the throttle is great.

i can putz around all day fishing, but when i throttle up it burns thru battery quick.

if it fits your criteria it’s an amazing piece of equipment. If it doesn’t its overpriced junk


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

piketroller said:


> The mercury electric won't do anything that can't already be done with a regular transom mount trolling motor and a lithium batter except hide the wire that connects them.


I don't think anyone said it wouldn't. It essentially is a 48V transom mount trolling motor with an integrated removable battery. They are going after the small self contained outboard market with the 7.5e

Minn Kota and Motor Guide offer nothing in this arena. 

The Minn Kota vantage is a 36V option. $1800. 36V battery and charger $2200. Approx $4k. 

Minn Kota E drive. 2HP electric outboard. Not Tiller capable. $3250. 48V battery and charger . $3000

Approx $6250 plus rigging. 

To be competitive Mercury needs to fall near the $3000 range(similar to the 1103.


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## LoBrass (Oct 16, 2007)

You got a lot of responses for not even asking a question!!

I can see an e-motor being very useful in a lot of areas. Purchased an e-bike last winter and it has been a critical part of every big game hunt where I killed something this year. Started with a big tom turkey, snuck in on a trophy buck and killed a doe at my house by slipping in quietly. The e-bike has changed how I hunt, approach and exit stands to the point that I am lost without it. I let a buddy take it to Iowa and felt like I was handcuffed!!

For the application you are looking at an e-outboard to help you with, perfect.

I do believe we will always bellyache about battery life. Not like it is new when it comes to trolling motor battery life. A buddy of mine has drained his in tournaments multiple times.

Good luck bowhunter426!!


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## piketroller (Oct 24, 2016)

bowhunter426 said:


> I don't think anyone said it wouldn't. It essentially is a 48V transom mount trolling motor with an integrated removable battery. They are going after the small self contained outboard market with the 7.5e
> 
> Minn Kota and Motor Guide offer nothing in this arena.
> 
> ...


Mercury already sells the Motorguide R5 trolling motor that you can get in 24V or 36V configurations in the $500 to $600 price range. The Dakota Lithiums are 1.28 kw-hrs which is more than this integrated mercury battery and cost around $1500 for the 24V and $2000 for the 36V. So you can get the similar or more thrust and longer battery life for $2000 to $2600, but only part of that revenue goes to Mercury.


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

bowhunter426 said:


> your just as bad as DS. It doesn't fit my use case so it's stupid. Like those tiny Boston Whalers people pay stupid money for so they can putz around the marina. Stupid!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It has a niche market as does my electric ice auger. I think there is a place for these motors for sure. Just as there are places for EVs and EV trucks (as Pescy has done the research). Trucks won't fit my lifestyle but will many others just as the 7.5E will. Common sense goes a long way when deciding where these electric motors fit in. They do not answer the call for every use.


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## Scott K (Aug 26, 2008)

TC-fisherman said:


> Have a torqeedo 1003 for 6 years. will it do everything? No. Is it great at what it does? Yes. Amount of any kind of maintenance in 6 years. Zero.
> 
> want to plane or go fast, not for u.
> 
> ...


How big a boat and how big is the motor?


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## Bigeejakes (Nov 11, 2011)

If it performed well in cold weather, I would almost be interested, I've had water pumps on old outboards freeze up and this would solve that problem... But, 45mins of run time at full throttle isn't much in a 3.5hp - my longest trips with a 4hp are often 35mins each direction... So, this is not for me yet... I won't be buying a 2nd battery at the prices being listed here... Which also begs the question, how many years will the battery last before needing replaced? I can buy a 1970s 4hp outboard that will continue to last my lifetime with minimal parts.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk


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## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> Wind removes heat faster than calm, even when you are talking about your house. I don't know how wind chill might affect a battery.


Houses, and the bodies of living creatures, are trying to generate a certain level of heat, whether through bodily functions or the use of a furnace. Yes, having high winds and a heavy windchill factor will cool down your house and body quicker, meaning that the heat you are generating within them, will leave faster, and more quickly approach the actual temperature. Batteries do not generate heat to keep themselves warm, they just sit there and are at the actual temperature. A battery at 30* in no wind or 100mph wind will perform the exact same.


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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

ajkulish said:


> Houses, and the bodies of living creatures, are trying to generate a certain level of heat, whether through bodily functions or the use of a furnace. Yes, having high winds and a heavy windchill factor will cool down your house and body quicker, meaning that the heat you are generating within them, will leave faster, and more quickly approach the actual temperature. Batteries do not generate heat to keep themselves warm, they just sit there and are at the actual temperature. A battery at 30* in no wind or 100mph wind will perform the exact same.


Thermodynamics never lie, eh AJ?


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## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

Jerry Lamb said:


> Thermodynamics never lie, eh AJ?


Spent more time thinking about thermo than I care to admit lol


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

Shoeman said:


> My entire lawn fleet is electric, so it has its application. My Toro will do my lot twice on a charge. As for a primary on a lake you best bring some oars


Should probably bring an oar and anchor no matter what. Gasoline powered boats are not immune to breakdowns or running out of fuel either. It's why I have a tow boat membership.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

bowhunter426 said:


> I haven't looked and don't really care too as it would be a boat that doesn't fill a need for me.
> 
> I have no interest in converting my Bass Boat to electric as the technology isn't at a price point that makes it affordable and it won't fit my use case.


The problem arises if we are told that we MUST buy something, and it's trending in that direction.

I am in no way opposed to new technology, FORCED new technology, is another thing


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

bowhunter426 said:


> Should probably bring an oar and anchor no matter what. Gasoline powered boats are not immune to breakdowns or running out of fuel either. It's why I have a tow boat membership.


I have a tow boat membership as well. And an electric bow mount in summer AND an anchor AND a paddle. Not to mention a VHF and a cell.


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> The problem arises if we are told that we MUST buy something, and it's trending in that direction.
> 
> I am in no way opposed to new technology, FORCED new technology, is another thing


No one in this thread ever said you or anyone else has to buy an electric outboard. 

No one is forcing this on you. 

Mercury has 50+ ICE product offerings and this 1 electric right now. 

I am willing to be an early adopter of a self contained propulsion system that solves a lot of short comings of my current gas system, but want to see what the larger power options offer at the end of 2023


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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

bowhunter426 said:


> No one in this thread ever said you or anyone else has to buy an electric outboard.
> 
> No one is forcing this on you.
> 
> ...


California banned all ICE under 25 horsepower. Like everything we are being subjected to, it starts out there...


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

Jerry Lamb said:


> California banned all ICE under 25 horsepower. Like everything we are being subjected to, it starts out there...


The legislation was written to Instruct CARB to make a zero emissions timelines for SOREs. Small Off Road Engines. 

Watercraft which includes outboards do not currently fall under SORE. 

Can you show where Outboards under 25hp are going to be banned?


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## stevieblunder (Feb 27, 2011)

Here's a stupid idea. I have alot of stupid ideas. You said your old 15hp motor was overkill and you don't use it that much. Instead of paying something like $2400 for the small Mercury electric, shell out $1100 for a Mercury 3.5hp 4 stroke. it even weighs less than that electric. If you took care of it you would probably be able to hand it down to your kids or grandkids. Plus they wouldn't have to worry about finding an outrageously priced battery years from now.


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

stevieblunder said:


> Here's a stupid idea. I have alot of stupid ideas. You said your old 15hp motor was overkill and you don't use it that much. Instead of paying something like $2400 for the small Mercury electric, shell out $1100 for a Mercury 3.5hp 4 stroke. it even weighs less than that electric. If you took care of it you would probably be able to hand it down to your kids or grandkids. Plus they wouldn't have to worry about finding an outrageously priced battery years from now.


So you didn't read the reasons I am trying to get away from gas.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> MANY in here use small outboards for duck hunting. Duck hunters are often on the water in sub-freezing temps. It's a fair question. I would also ask where those batteries are manufactured.


If the motor is in sub freezing temp it is in ice. That was the point. Water temps have to be above freezing to run. I have had my electric trolling motors out on days well below 30 degrees aor temp and never had an issue. I have had my old carb 2 strokes not want to start or idle in cold temps. 

Sent from my SM-S901U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## stevieblunder (Feb 27, 2011)

bowhunter426 said:


> So you didn't read the reasons I am trying to get away from gas.


I did. The smell and some other stuff. Based on your replies to others suggestions you have already bought that motor in your mind. That's fine, if you want one buy one. The only opinion that matters is your wife's if you have one.


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

stevieblunder said:


> I did. The smell and some other stuff. Based on your replies to others suggestions you have already bought that motor in your mind. That's fine, if you want one buy one. The only opinion that matters is your wife's if you have one.


What replies and other suggestions imply I have already bought it in my mind? Trying to debunk absolute BS posted by members that are trying to make these something they are not? 

In my very first post and post 73 I said I was considering it, but was waiting to see the larger options and what the price was. Bought it my mind. Absolutely not.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Funny thing, there's a thread on this at THT

Not one reply....


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## stevieblunder (Feb 27, 2011)

I can't speak for others. Personally, I wouldn't buy one of those things in a million years. Not only is it crazy overpriced but you have to worry about eventually replacing the battery. Again, that's just my opinion. Everybody has one. Maybe I *misinterpreted the meaning of your thread. I thought you were asking for opinions, not marketing a product.*


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

stevieblunder said:


> I can't speak for others. Personally, I wouldn't buy one of those things in a million years. Not only is it crazy overpriced but you have to worry about eventually replacing the battery. Again, that's just my opinion. Everybody has one. Maybe I *misinterpreted the meaning of your thread. I thought you were asking for opinions, not marketing a product.*


If you know the price of the 7.5e please share. 

Not marketing or seeking an opinion. Just posting something I found online that I found intriguing. If the larger units cost $5k + I will be looking at something else. Until then I wait.


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## LoBrass (Oct 16, 2007)

stevieblunder said:


> I can't speak for others. Personally, I wouldn't buy one of those things in a million years. Not only is it crazy overpriced but you have to worry about eventually replacing the battery. Again, that's just my opinion. Everybody has one. Maybe I *misinterpreted the meaning of your thread. I thought you were asking for opinions, not marketing a product.*


The original post never asked a question at all.

He was trolling for discussion. BH426 got some great dialogue and some babble. Where you at bro?


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

Shoeman said:


> Funny thing, there's a thread on this at THT
> 
> Not one reply....


It's at 26. They are also a boating group that understands what this product was geared towards. Unlike here....


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

DirtySteve said:


> If the motor is in sub freezing temp it is in ice. That was the point. Water temps have to be above freezing to run. I have had my electric trolling motors out on days well below 30 degrees aor temp and never had an issue. I have had my old carb 2 strokes not want to start or idle in cold temps.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S901U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


I was asking how well the batteries held up, how much loss there would be, in subfreezing temps.


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## CrawlerHarness (Dec 9, 2017)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> Wind "chill" does affect a house, although it is not called that. Your house will cool faster, at the same ambient temp, when you had a wind. The higher the wind speed, the faster your house will cool.


Going to have trouble helping you understand anything about horsepower and torque conversion....when you can't understand that houses and batteries are not affected by wind chill. 

Pretty soon you are going to start question what effect heat index has on batteries and houses.


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## piketroller (Oct 24, 2016)

bowhunter426 said:


> If you know the price of the 7.5e please share.
> 
> Not marketing or seeking an opinion. Just posting something I found online that I found intriguing. If the larger units cost $5k + I will be looking at something else. Until then I wait.


My guess is $3999 for the 7.5e with at least a thousand bucks more for each step up in size, maybe more. I did look at the Torqeedo and all the other electric options out there before ordering a kicker in the spring of 2021. I get the appeal of them, and maybe the higher power ones on the way could be the first viable electric options to replace a kicker motor on an 18-20 ft fishing boat that needs to troll above walleye speeds for more than just a couple hours.


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## CrawlerHarness (Dec 9, 2017)

piketroller said:


> Torque moves the boat. Horsepower is what determines how fast it moves. Maybe this is shining a light on just how terrible small outboards make use of their shaft power. The mercury electric won't do anything that can't already be done with a regular transom mount trolling motor and a lithium batter except hide the wire that connects them. The mercury will probably cost a lot more.
> 
> The marketing video I saw didn't show any bow rise at all on the 12 foot Lund. I ran a 3 hp Bucaneer on a 12 foot boat as a kid, and a 4 hp Johnson as a teenager. Both of those motors would start lifting the bow when you opened them up. Neither had any chance in hell of getting on plane, but they still pushed that size of boat past the displacement speed where the nose started lifting a little. I find it very odd that a video supposed to help sell this thing doesn't show that level of performance.


Well....were you the same size as a teenager? That might explain why your bow would lift when opening up the motor


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## CrawlerHarness (Dec 9, 2017)

piketroller said:


> My guess is $3999 for the 7.5e with at least a thousand bucks more for each step up in size, maybe more. I did look at the Torqeedo and all the other electric options out there before ordering a kicker in the spring of 2021. I get the appeal of them, and maybe the higher power ones on the way could be the first viable electric options to replace a kicker motor on an 18-20 ft fishing boat that needs to troll above walleye speeds for more than just a couple hours.


If only we could come up with a greener way to power a boat across the water?


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

bowhunter426 said:


> It's at 26. They are also a boating group that understands what this product was geared towards. Unlike here....


I looked at LSCBoater's thread. My bad


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## CrawlerHarness (Dec 9, 2017)

Shoeman said:


> Funny thing, there's a thread on this at THT
> 
> Not one reply....


There is also a thread over there on product reviews and personal experience on an approved lower unit gear oil. 

That one got pretty much only my snarky response.


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## piketroller (Oct 24, 2016)

CrawlerHarness said:


> Well....were you the same size as a teenager? That might explain why your bow would lift when opening up the motor


If you want to get into weight, as fuel burns off, the weight in the boat decreases, so the bow should gradually get lower while running it. How strange that didn't happened but did go up and down based on throttle position and subsequently hull speed. The world is full of unexplained mysteries.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

CrawlerHarness said:


> Going to have trouble helping you understand anything about horsepower and torque conversion....when you can't understand that houses and batteries are not affected by wind chill.
> 
> Pretty soon you are going to start question what effect heat index has on batteries and houses.


The temp in the house IS affected by the wind. I can hear the difference in how many times the furnace runs on a cold day and on a day with the same temp with wind. The heavier the wind, the more often it runs.

I was ASKING about the batteries.


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## CrawlerHarness (Dec 9, 2017)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> The temp in the house IS affected by the wind. I can hear the difference in how many times the furnace runs on a cold day and on a day with the same temp with wind. The heavier the wind, the more often it runs.
> 
> I was ASKING about the batteries.


Now you change it to the wind. Thank you for finally reluctantly agreeing with me it is not affected by wind chill!


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## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

bowhunter426 said:


> Been following this for about a year now as I have been shopping for a new tiller motor. My 1970s 15hp Johnson is a strong runner but it is overkill for what I am doing. Last year I ran 6 gallons of gas thru it on over a dozen outings.
> 
> The 7.5e - comparable to a 3.5hp, would met 95% of my needs as I rarely get my 12 footer on plane, but I think I am going to wait for the 20e or 35e if they are price comparable to a new 4 stroke.
> 
> ...


Wait, so you're telling me I am going to be forced to buy an electric outboard for my boat, having to buy crazy expensive unobtanium batteries if I want to drive more than 45 minutes?! But where does the smoke come from? How am I going to generate body temp without having to rip on a rope 15 times before my hunt? I dont like any of what youre telling me. I want gasoline baby! Paying 7 dollars a gallon all last summer just got me fired up and I dont think I could ever go back. Toss 2 stroke oil on top of that and I got to spend so much money it was awesome! Really made me feel like a baller down at the gas dock. Like I truly belong down there. I dont think an electric outboard would give me such a feeling, so for that reason, your thoughts are stupid and I dont like them. Hell they dont even meter my electrical connection at the marina so how would I even get to pay for the electricity? IDK this is really dumb.


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

ajkulish said:


> How am I going to generate body temp without having to rip on a rope 15 times before my hunt?


LOL.


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## Erik (Jan 17, 2000)

I think going electric is something a person does because they want to. Not because its more efficient or cost effective.
My friend has some e stuff, like yard stuff, car, even a motorcycle. He's real into it. And thats cool. It works decent enough for him. He lives 10 minutes from where he works. He has a little tiny yard with like maybe 3 trees, some shrubs.

I live 35 minutes from work. If it snows our road doesn't get plowed till the main roads get done. If you dont have 4 WD in the winter you aint making it up my driveway. I have several acres to take care of. Trees and limbs come down periodically and I have to be able to clean it up. It may take me days. Not hours. And sometimes the power goes out and it may be a week before they get it back on. Regardless of what they say an e car isn't going to power my home for a week. Thats such a joke!

E stuff is not yet practical for someone like me. Let alone affordable.

Its all good so long as they dont start forcing folks to go EV. But if guys like bowhunter426 want to go that way hey go for it.


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## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

Since we are talking about electric rechargeable's what does everybody thing about those new electric fishing poles?

It seems like with that lithium battery in the handle it might set the hooks quicker!


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

bowhunter426 said:


> Should probably bring an oar and anchor no matter what. Gasoline powered boats are not immune to breakdowns or running out of fuel either. It's why I have a tow boat membership.


Probably more prone than electric with all the extra crap to go wrong with gas


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

piketroller said:


> Torque moves the boat. Horsepower is what determines how fast it moves. Maybe this is shining a light on just how terrible small outboards make use of their shaft power. The mercury electric won't do anything that can't already be done with a regular transom mount trolling motor and a lithium batter except hide the wire that connects them. The mercury will probably cost a lot more.



48V vs. 24/12V means less wiring weight, and higher efficiency.

Given the general 1970s era tech in trolling motor speed controls, I assume these motors will get a good bit of efficiency improvement in the speed control electronics also.

I mean... Relays and brushed DC motors...


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

48V requires more battery weight.


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> EVERY deep cycle I have lists AH, not WH. Just trying to compare apples to apples.


It lists more than AH - it lists AH at a specific voltage and current draw.

Something like:

12V, 150AH at 50 amp draw.

At 30A draw, it will have more than 150AH capacity 
At 70A draw, it will have less than 150AH capacity


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> 48V requires more battery weight.


No, it doesn't. It means the exact opposite.

Given the same energy capacity, a higher voltage battery will be LIGHTER. Higher voltage means lower current means SMALLER current carrying conductors.


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## Bucman (Jun 29, 2016)

bowhunter426 said:


> You overestimate the average intelligence of a Florida boater. Dead battery and no gas are top reasons they are called.


Emberassed to say I ran out last year and made that call. 🤷🏻‍♂️. That's why I get it! JIC!


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

pescadero said:


> It lists more than AH - it lists AH at a specific voltage and current draw.
> 
> Something like:
> 
> ...


Everyone I have list [email protected]


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> Everyone I have list [email protected]


That means the rated capacity is at a current of the rated AH/20.

If the battery says 150AH @ 20Hr it means: 150AH at 7.5 amps draw. 

If you're drawing more than 7.5A - you get less than 150AH. If you're drawing less than 7.5A - you get more than 150AH.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

pescadero said:


> That means the rated capacity is at a current of the rated AH/20.
> 
> If the battery says 150AH @ 20Hr it means: 150AH at 7.5 amps draw.
> 
> If you're drawing more than 7.5A - you get less than 150AH. If you're drawing less than 7.5A - you get more than 150AH.


I know that. I just want one standard, on all batteries, to compare apples to apples. Right now, battery companies lean more towards marketing than useful.


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## piketroller (Oct 24, 2016)

pescadero said:


> 48V vs. 24/12V means less wiring weight, and higher efficiency.
> 
> Given the general 1970s era tech in trolling motor speed controls, I assume these motors will get a good bit of efficiency improvement in the speed control electronics also.
> 
> I mean... Relays and brushed DC motors...


If you think 24/12V trolling motors from the 1970s is state of the art today, then you've got a lot more googling to do, Jeeves. And why do they have you working on the weekend?


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> I know that. I just want one standard, on all batteries, to compare apples to apples.


There is... It's called discharge curve graphs.










If your looking for a single number - it's always going to be bad and wrong, just like EPA mpg numbers.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

pescadero said:


> There is... It's called discharge curve graphs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Few people carry such a chart when shopping for a battery. You can bet your bottom dollar that those E outboard companies are fudging their numbers to look better, just as EV companies are and ICE makers try to fudge their EPA MPH ratings.


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

piketroller said:


> If you think 24/12V trolling motors from the 1970s is state of the art today, then you've got a lot more googling to do, Jeeves. And why do they have you working on the weekend?


Reading.Is.Fundamental.

Trolling motors TODAY are using 1970s era technology when it comes to speed control and the electric motors themselves.

State of the art in terms of electric motors and speed control aren't used in trolling motors today or ever.

Now - modern trolling motors have clapped modern navigation/control interface electronics on top of the 1970s gunk - but the underlying motor/speed control is basically horse and buggy era


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> Few people carry such a chart when shopping for a battery.


So what you're saying is you want a single number for something that is impossible to represent with a single number.

The problem isn't with the metrics - its with people wanting simple answers to complicated questions.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

pescadero said:


> So what you're saying is you want a single number for something that is impossible to represent with a single number.
> 
> The problem isn't with the metrics - its with people wanting simple answers to complicated questions.


That is NOT what I am saying. I KNOW my gas tank holds 18 gallons. What use I get out of those 18 gallons has many variables. That storage battery is my gas tank.


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> That is NOT what I am saying. I KNOW my gas tank holds 18 gallons. What use I get out of those 18 gallons has many variables. That storage battery is my gas tank.


Except it isn't.

Batteries cannot be rated in that way. Their very capacity is dependent on the use.

Well - not exactly. More like a fuel tank with a leak that depends on flow rate... So your usage effects how much of the capacity you actually get to use.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

pescadero said:


> Except it isn't.
> 
> Batteries cannot be rated in that way. Their very capacity is dependent on the use.
> 
> Well - not exactly. More like a fuel tank with a leak that depends on flow rate... So your usage effects how much of the capacity you actually get to use.


The range on my fuel tank depends entirely on use, both in my truck and boat. For example, the [email protected] is just a "guide" to go by, sort of a standard. THEN, after it's on my boat I will learn how long that battery lasts. You "chart" does not help much with that. Right now, IF I have a battery rated at [email protected], I KNOW what to expect.


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## piketroller (Oct 24, 2016)

pescadero said:


> Reading.Is.Fundamental.
> 
> Trolling motors TODAY are using 1970s era technology when it comes to speed control and the electric motors themselves.
> 
> ...


You are already backtracking by acknowledging digital controls being added now that we're not 1970s trolling motor technology. There are also brushless trolling motors on the market now, a d they have been there for several years. That was something you specifically mentioned earlier that didn't exist. The only arguments you are winning are the ones with the voices in your head.


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> The range on my fuel tank depends entirely on use, both in my truck and boat.


No, it doesn't. A bunch of environmental factors come into play also.

With a battery the capacity varies based on use rate.

It's like a gas tank that is 18 gallons if used at 1 gallon per hour, 15 gallons if used at 1.5 gallons per hour.



SEMichiiganConservation said:


> For example, the [email protected] is just a "guide" to go by, sort of a standard. THEN, after it's on my boat I will learn how long that battery lasts. You "chart" does not help much with that. Right now, IF I have a battery rated at [email protected], I KNOW what to expect.


The chart tells you exactly that information - but at multiple different draw rates instead of just one.

The chart helps anyone who knows how to read it a lot with that.

It just doesn't help YOU with that, because you don't want to bother to educate yourself - you just want to complain.


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

piketroller said:


> You are already backtracking by acknowledging digital controls being added now that we're not 1979s trolling motor technology. There are also brushless trolling motors on the market now, a d they have been there for several years. That was something you specifically mentioned earlier that didn't exist. The only arguments you are winning are the ones with the voices in your head.


I very specifically called out 1970s technology *in motors and speed controls.*

You know... The only parts that have any effect at all on efficiency.

...and very few brushless exist, and they are also super ancient technology.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

pescadero said:


> No, it doesn't. A bunch of environmental factors come into play also.
> 
> With a battery the capacity varies based on use rate.
> 
> It's like a gas tank that is 18 gallons if used at 1 gallon per hour, 15 gallons if used at 1.5 gallons per hour.


No, there are all kinds of environmental factors that come into play. One hour on the road at 55MPH will use less fuel that one hour on the road at 70MPH. Temps, wind speeds, towing or not towing, all come into play.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

pescadero said:


> The chart tells you exactly that information - but at multiple different draw rates instead of just one.
> 
> The chart helps anyone who knows how to read it a lot with that.
> 
> It just doesn't help YOU with that, because you don't want to bother to educate yourself - you just want to complain.


We would need charts with multiple temps, current speeds, wind speeds, etc.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> No, there are all kinds of environmental factors that come into play. One hour on the road at 55MPH will use less fuel that one hour on the road at 70MPH. Temps, wind speeds, towing or not towing, all come into play.


Doesn't change the energy available in the fuel


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

sureshot006 said:


> Doesn't change the energy available in the fuel


No, but it still takes more fuel, or less fuel to move. There is still a finite amount of fuel in a battery. HOW you use that fuel determines how long that will will last, even with a battery.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> No, but it still takes more fuel, or less fuel to move. There is still a finite amount of fuel in a battery. HOW you use that fuel determines how long that will will last, even with a battery.


Yea but that's not what he's saying.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

sureshot006 said:


> Yea but that's not what he's saying.


But is what I am looking for. JUST the standard there are 40 doohicies in that thingamabob. HOW I use those doohicies I will figure out based on REAL life use. One company using doohicies, and another using whatchamacallits, to describe the same thing often is just a marketing game.


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## waldowillie (Feb 1, 2012)

Well I have just one HUGE problem with buying an electric outboard from Mercury! In the next 2 years my current outboard may eventually wear out. But Evinrude and Johnson have created a big problem for the marketing of Brunswick/Mercury today.

I presently still use my 1983 50HP tiller Evinrude to fish 60+ trips a year. Thinking the Evinrude might eventually wear out, I bought a brand new 2002 2-stroke tiller Johnson 20 years ago and the new Johnson has sat unused. So my HUGE problem is once my Evinrude wears out someday, I will still need to wear out a brand new 2002 Johnson that awaits it's turn. I keep getting 40 years and hundreds of hours out of a well maintained motor and it would take one heck of a marketing campaign for me to sell what I have an go electric.


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> We would need charts with multiple temps, current speeds, wind speeds, etc.


Yes... Just like you would to calculate the same info for an ICE.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Really doesn't matter. Bottom line 45 minutes of run time. Like making a 3.5 horse with an internal tank with a capacity of 8 oz of fuel


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> No, but it still takes more fuel, or less fuel to move. There is still a finite amount of fuel in a battery. HOW you use that fuel determines how long that will will last, even with a battery.


Batteries have zero fuel.

Fuel is one way to store energy. Batteries are another.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

pescadero said:


> Yes... Just like you would to calculate the same info for an ICE.


NOPE, Don't use charts for ANY ICE engine I have used. I just keep track of what I use under what circumstances. I DO however, have a standard fuel level to start with. I do that with every engine I have owned, except stupid one's that didn't matter, like the lawn mower, which I no longer have one.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

pescadero said:


> Batteries have zero fuel.
> 
> Fuel is one way to store energy. Batteries are another.


The electricity stored in a battery is the "fuel" that motor uses. You can call it all the things you want, in practical use, it amounts to the same thing.


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

Shoeman said:


> Really doesn't matter. Bottom line 45 minutes of run time. Like making a 3.5 horse with an internal tank with a capacity of 8 oz of fuel


A 3hp tiller Yamaha has a 1.3l tank, and burns 1.5l per hour.

52 minutes of run time.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

pescadero said:


> A 3hp tiller Yamaha has a 1.3l tank, and burns 1.5l per hour.
> 
> 52 minutes of run time.


I bet in a 3MPH current it would use fuel faster.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Could probably recharge the battery with solar. Might take a while longer than a tow but you sure ain't gonna refine oil on the water.


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> I bet in a 3MPH current it would use fuel faster.


Or use it slower. Direction matters.

...but it's true whether the boat is powered by gas, battery, steam, or anything else.


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## piketroller (Oct 24, 2016)

pescadero said:


> Batteries have zero fuel.
> 
> Fuel is one way to store energy. Batteries are another.


Many types of fuel


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## CrawlerHarness (Dec 9, 2017)

piketroller said:


> Many types of fuel
> View attachment 877178


So H2O can be used as a fuel?


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

CrawlerHarness said:


> So H2O can be used as a fuel?


Well it does have H


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

No way will I ever have an electric motor on my boat other than a trolling motor. Don’t ever seeing there being enough run time to satisfy my needs on the water.


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

sparky18181 said:


> Don’t ever seeing there being enough run time to satisfy my needs on the water.


I think people said similar things when the horseless carriage was presented.


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

sparky18181 said:


> No way will I ever have an electric motor on my boat other than a trolling motor. Don’t ever seeing there being enough run time to satisfy my needs on the water.


Some of the current batteries in development have 100x the volumetric capacity of current batteries.

That would take this from 45 minute runtime to over 60 hours of runtime.


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

bowhunter426 said:


> I think people said similar things when the horseless carriage was presented.


I’m 62. Have a brand new boat. It will outlast me and I will never own an electric primary motor. Ever


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

pescadero said:


> Some of the current batteries in development have 100x the volumetric capacity of current batteries.
> 
> That would take this from 45 minute runtime to over 60 hours of runtime.


Don’t care what the runtime is. I ll never own one when I have a perfectly good gas engine and new boat. Not happening


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

pescadero said:


> A 3hp tiller Yamaha has a 1.3l tank, and burns 1.5l per hour.
> 
> 52 minutes of run time.


Didn’t know Yamaha made a 3.


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

Shoeman said:


> Didn’t know Yamaha made a 3.











Yamaha 3BMHS 3hp 2 Stroke Outboard Engine Short Shaft


Here you can buy a Yamaha 3BMHS 3hp 2 Stroke Outboard Engine Short Shaft with a manual starter and tiller control at a low price.



yamaha2strokeoutboards.com


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

pescadero said:


> Yamaha 3BMHS 3hp 2 Stroke Outboard Engine Short Shaft
> 
> 
> Here you can buy a Yamaha 3BMHS 3hp 2 Stroke Outboard Engine Short Shaft with a manual starter and tiller control at a low price.
> ...


How about a site that isn't a scam?


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## steelhead281 (Feb 1, 2007)

waldowillie said:


> Well I have just one HUGE problem with buying an electric outboard from Mercury! In the next 2 years my current outboard may eventually wear out. But Evinrude and Johnson have created a big problem for the marketing of Brunswick/Mercury today.
> 
> I presently still use my 1983 50HP tiller Evinrude to fish 60+ trips a year. Thinking the Evinrude might eventually wear out, I bought a brand new 2002 2-stroke tiller Johnson 20 years ago and the new Johnson has sat unused. So my HUGE problem is once my Evinrude wears out someday, I will still need to wear out a brand new 2002 Johnson that awaits it's turn. I keep getting 40 years and hundreds of hours out of a well maintained motor and it would take one heck of a marketing campaign for me to sell what I have an go electric.


You have a much bigger problem if you bought the 1983 new on your 55th birthday. Can I have the 2002 when you done looking at it in the box. Lol


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

bowhunter426 said:


> How about a site that isn't a scam?











3BMHS | Yamaha Motor New Zealand


Built lightweight and compact to be ready for any adventure the 3B is an exceptional portable outboard. With a unique look, ergonomically designed carry points and Yamaha's legendary performance, the 3B has the verasility to make it perfect for a huge selectin of small boats and applications.




www.yamaha-motor.co.nz












3BMHS (In-Stock) 2021 - Trev Terry Marine Lake Taupo


Engine Type: 2-Stroke, In-line 1




www.trevterrymarine.co.nz









Yamaha 3B | Family Boats







www.familyboats.nz












Yamaha 3hp New amp Used Outboard Boat City Wellington


Light weight, portable with an affordable price makes this the perfect option for your little inflatables or tenders.




www.boatcity.co.nz


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

Some Photos from the CES Show over the weekend. 

Avator Lineup. 7.5e 20e and 35e. Excited to hear more about the 20e and 35e models



















Lund Veer with Optional 7.5e. Mercury 9.9 is the Standard equipment. 









Mercury 600HP V12 -










Navier 30 - The Boat of the future. 30' Electric Hydrofoil with 75 nautical miles of range at 20 knts


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