# Illegal tree stands on state land



## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

DirtySteve said:


> I believe you are also taking a risk removing the stands. One CO said if he saw a person removing a stand that didn't have their name on it past the time period they would be given a choice of* illegal stand ticket or larceny.*


There isn't a prosecutor in the world that would issue a warrant for either using an illegal stand or larceny in this case. Larceny of what - abandoned property? Who is the victim and complaining witness if nobody claims ownership by having their name on it as required by law? A more appropriate response would be to give him a good citizenship award for cleaning up litter on public property IMO. Using an illegal stand during hunting season is one thing - removing an illegal stand after hunting season and after the time it should have been removed isn't even covered in the statute... If a C.O. actually said that, he needs more training in criminal law and procedure.


----------



## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

keep reading, most of us are suggesting solutions to the problem like Making it "legal" to remove them and turning them into the field offices.
I don't touch things that aren't mine, but if they say that they are abandoned or litter and make it legal... Well You Betcha...


----------



## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

DirtySteve said:


> I believe you are also taking a risk removing the stands. One CO said if he saw a person removing a stand that didn't have their name on it past the time period they would be given a choice of illegal stand ticket or larceny.





wildthing said:


> There isn't a prosecutor in the world that would issue a warrant for either using an illegal stand or larceny in this case. Larceny of what - abandoned property? Who is the victim and complaining witness if nobody claims ownership by having their name on it as required by law? A more appropriate response would be to give him a good citizenship award for cleaning up litter on public property IMO. Using an illegal stand during hunting season is one thing - removing an illegal stand after hunting season and after the time it should have been removed isn't even covered in the statute... If a C.O. actually said that, he needs more training in criminal law and procedure.


Hey C.O.'s could one or more of you please speak up?


----------



## Corey K (Dec 11, 2009)

So I can't pick up empty beer cans in the woods? I wouldn't want to steal someone's empty, just in case they are going to come back for them next year!!!


----------



## U of M Fan (May 8, 2005)

Corey K said:


> So I can't pick up empty beer cans in the woods? I wouldn't want to steal someone's empty, just in case they are going to come back for them next year!!!


Leave them be!!! Those are Stickbows trail markers.


----------



## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

Alan Michaels said:


> keep reading, most of us are suggesting solutions to the problem like Making it "legal" to remove them and turning them into the field offices.
> I don't touch things that aren't mine, but if they say abandoned or litter and make it legal... Well You Betcha...


I agree Alan - particularly if the DNR doesn't have the staffing or time to remove these illegal stands ... and the statute does consider them to be abandoned (see 3rd paragraph from the end):










EQUIPMENT REGULATIONS

Raised Platforms and Tree Stands

The following persons may hunt from a raised platform or tree stand:


Bow and crossbow hunters (all species).


Bear, deer, and elk hunters when using a rearm.


Small game (except migratory bird) hunters using a shotgun only.


Fox and coyote hunters from one-half hour before sunrise to one-half hour after sunset.

All other rearm hunters are prohibited from
using a raised platform or tree stand. A raised
platform means a horizontal surface, constructed
or manufactured by a person, that increases the
eld of vision of a person using it beyond the eld
of vision that normally would be attained by that person standing on the ground.

If you hunt on public land, your tree stand must be portable and your name and address must be af xed in legible English that can be easily read from the ground. Hunting platforms cannot be af xed or attached to any tree by nails, screws, or bolts; however, a “T” bolt or similar device supplied by a tree stand manufacturer can be used.

Screw-in tree steps are illegal on public lands. It is unlawful to use any item that penetrates through the bark of a tree in the construction or af xing of any device to assist in climbing a tree.

Scaffolds, raised platforms, ladders, steps, and any other device to assist in climbing a tree cannot be placed on public lands any earlier than Sept. 1, and must be removed by March 1. A permanent raised platform or tree stand may be used for hunting on private land with the permission of the landowner.

It is unlawful to use an illegal tree stand, scaffold, step, etc., regardless of who placed it on public lands. Your name on a tree stand or ground blind on public land does not guarantee exclusive use.

Ground Blinds on Public Land

A ground blind means a structure, enclosure or any material, natural or manufactured, placed on the ground to assist in concealing or disguising the user for the purpose of taking an animal. Any ground blind on public land that does not meet the requirements of either Type 1, 2, or 3 described below is an unlawful ground blind. See pg. 60-61, Additional Hunting Rules, for cutting-lane information. Exception: See the current-year Waterfowl Digest for regulations on waterfowl hunting blinds.

Only the following three types of ground blinds are legal on public land:
























22 2016 Michigan Hunting and Trapping Digest









Type 1 (Portable Ground Blind): This blind must be clearly portable and removed at the end of each day’s hunt (if you wish to leave your blind out overnight, see type 3 below). Fasteners, if used to attach or anchor the blind, cannot penetrate the cambium of a tree and also must be removed daily. No identi cation is required. These blinds may be used for legal hunting on public land, including all state game areas, state parks and state recreation areas in Zone 3 (see pg. 12).

Type 2 (Dead Natural Materials Ground Blind). This blind must be constructed exclusively of dead and natural materials found on the ground in the area of the blind, except that a hunter may add netting, cloth, plastic, or other materials for concealment or protection from the weather if these materials are not permanently fastened to the blind and are removed at the end of each day’s hunt.

These items can be tied to the blind but cannot be stapled, nailed, glued, or fastened in any permanent manner. No identi cation is required. Fasteners (nails, screws, etc.) cannot be used in construction. These blinds may be used for legal hunting on public land, including all state game areas, state parks, and state recreation areas in Zone 3 (see pg. 12).

Type 3 (Constructed Ground Blind). This includes all other blinds not meeting the requirements of either Type 1 or Type 2, including portable ground blinds, if not removed daily.

• Bear hunters may place constructed ground blinds on state lands in bear management units open to bear hunting for which they have a bear license beginning Aug. 10 in Zone 1 units and beginning Aug. 17 in Zone 2 units.

2016 Michigan Hunting and Trapping Digest

23









EQUIPMENT REGULATIONS









EQUIPMENT REGULATIONS

Blinds must be removed within five days of a bear being harvested, or within ve days of the end of the bear season for which the hunter has a license.

• Deer hunters may place constructed ground blinds on all Zone 1 and Zone 2 public lands from Sept. 1 to the end of the annual deer season.* In addition to being subject to criminal penalties, any constructed blind found on public land prior to Sept. 1 or after the end of the annual deer season will be considered abandoned. *

The name and address of the person placing a constructed ground blind on public land must be permanently attached, etched, engraved or painted on the blind. These blinds are not legal on state game areas, state parks, and state recreation areas in Zone 3 (see pg. 12). Fasteners, if used to anchor or attach the blind, cannot penetrate the cambium of a tree and must be removed with the blind. It is unlawful to use an illegal ground blind, regardless of who placed it on public land.

Note: If a person’s Type 3 ground blind has been permitted to be placed on land administered by a local public agency (city, township, county), the local agency will establish the length of time that a blind may be placed on its property.


----------



## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

We just need to have treestands and raised platforms added to that abandoned part.


----------



## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

wildthing said:


> There isn't a prosecutor in the world that would issue a warrant for either using an illegal stand or larceny in this case. Larceny of what - abandoned property? Who is the victim and complaining witness if nobody claims ownership by having their name on it as required by law? A more appropriate response would be to give him a good citizenship award for cleaning up litter on public property IMO. Using an illegal stand during hunting season is one thing - removing an illegal stand after hunting season and after the time it should have been removed isn't even covered in the statute... If a C.O. actually said that, he needs more training in criminal law and procedure.


There is a legal process that even the state has to go through to declare something abondoned.... you certainly cant. They have to make an attempt to allow the owner to claim it (more than one) hold it for a period of time and get a judge sugnature. This is why when they take a stand down it is generally a project where they do many at once in a day in a group effort. They process them all at once. Having officers take a single stand down is an enormous waste of tax payers money.  That is why they don't do it and don't care unless someone complains many times.

Complaining about old stands in the woods is equivalent to complaining about something trivial like Jay walking in the street. Making law enforcement deal with it is a burden that isn't necasary. A mildly irritating occurance that isnt worth the cost of dealing with it.


----------



## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

Alan Michaels said:


> We just need to have treestands and raised platforms to that abandoned part.


True - I think the inference is certainly there but it would be best if it was included.


----------



## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

So Russ is ok with guy's breaking the law ?


----------



## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

stickbow shooter said:


> So Russ is ok with guy's breaking the law ?


Hoping to find out, wife sent him an email. If he says get that trash out the woods we will.


----------



## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

DirtySteve said:


> There is a legal process that even the state has to go through to declare something abondoned.... you certainly cant. They have to make an attempt to allow the owner to claim it (more than one) hold it for a period of time and get a judge sugnature. This is why when they take a stand down it is generally a project where they do many at once in a day in a group effort. They process them all at once. Having officers take a single stand down is an enormous waste of tax payers money. That is why they don't do it and don't care unless someone complains many times.
> 
> Complaining about old stands in the woods is equivalent to complaining about something trivial like Jay walking in the street. Making law enforcement deal with it is a burden that isn't necasary. A mildly irritating occurance that isnt worth the cost of dealing with it.


Yep - There is a procedure which provides for the disposition of lost or abandoned property:

DISPOSITION OF LOST, UNCLAIMED, OR ABANDONED PERSONAL PROPERTY Act 238 of 1957

AN ACT to authorize the sale or other disposition of lost, unclaimed or abandoned personal property in the custody of state departments, boards or institutions; and to provide for the disposition of the proceeds of any such sale.

History: 1957, Act 238, Eff. Sept. 27, 1957.
The People of the State of Michigan enact:

434.151 Lost, unclaimed or abandoned personal property in custody of state; application of act.

Sec. 1. The provisions of this act shall apply to:

(a) Personal property of patients in state hospitals remaining after the death, discharge, release or escape of the patient and unclaimed by the patient, his or her relatives or heirs or personal or legal representative.

(b) Personal property of prisoners in state prisons remaining unclaimed after the death, discharge, release or escape of a prisoner and unclaimed by the prisoner, his relatives or heirs, or personal or legal representatives.

*(c) Personal property lost or abandoned by the owners thereof in or on state owned property administered by the department of conservation and turned into the custody of said department. *

(d) Personal property lost or abandoned by the owners thereof in or on other property owned, leased or rented by the state of Michigan for the use of state departments, boards and institutions.

History: 1957, Act 238, Eff. Sept. 27, 1957.

434.152 Personal effects without intrinsic or commercial value of certain state hospital patients; applicability of act.

Sec. 2. The provisions of this act do not apply to property subject to the provisions of the uniform unclaimed property act, or to property subject to the provisions of Act No. 203 of the Public Acts of 1937, being sections 28.401 to 28.406 of the Michigan Compiled Laws. The provisions of this act apply to personal effects of no intrinsic or commercial value of deceased, discharged, or escaped state hospital patients.

History: 1957, Act 238, Eff. Sept. 27, 1957;Am. 1995, Act 46, Eff. Jan. 1, 1996.

434.153 Lost, unclaimed or abandoned personal property in custody of state; appraisal.

Sec. 3. Each state department, board or institution when necessary to accomplish the purposes of this act shall delegate authority to 2 or more of its employees, hereinafter called appraisers, to examine and appraise lost or abandoned property in its possession remaining unclaimed for at least 6 months. The said appraisers shall examine, appraise and inventory each article of lost or abandoned personal property. Property found to be of no intrinsic or commercial value in the opinion of the appraisers shall be inventoried and recorded separately from property found by the appraisers to have intrinsic or commercial value. A record of property having intrinsic or commercial value containing a description of the property, the name of the county where found, and the appraisers' estimate of its value shall be made and a copy thereof forwarded to the commissioner of the state police.

History: 1957, Act 238, Eff. Sept. 27, 1957.

434.154 Lost, unclaimed or abandoned personal property in custody of state; professional opinion as to intrinsic value; appraiser's opinion as to value.

Sec. 4. Should the said appraisers be unable to decide whether or not certain articles of lost or abandoned property are of intrinsic or commercial value, professional opinion may be sought. No fee shall be payable for such opinion. Whether or not professional opinion is sought as to the value of any article of lost or abandoned property, the opinion of the said appraisers, made in the exercise of ordinary care and pursuant to this act, shall be prima facie evidence of the value of such property.

History: 1957, Act 238, Eff. Sept. 27, 1957.

434.155 Lost, unclaimed or abandoned personal property in custody of state; sale by commissioner of state police.

Sec. 5. Upon the request of the commissioner of the state police, property previously reported to him pursuant to the provisions of section 3 of this act shall be delivered to his custody at the East Lansing state police headquarters or to such state police post as the state police commissioner may direct. Said property

Rendered Friday, March 17, 2017 Page 6 Michigan Compiled Laws Complete Through PA 563 of 2016  Legislative Council, State of Michigan Courtesy of www.legislature.mi.gov

shall be sold at any ensuing state police sale of stolen property, such sale and the disposition of the proceeds of such sale to be governed by the provisions of Act No. 203 of the Public Acts of 1937, except that such property need not be held by the state police for the 6 months' period provided in that act.

History: 1957, Act 238, Eff. Sept. 27, 1957.

434.156 Lost, unclaimed or abandoned personal property in custody of state; disposition of property without intrinsic value.

Sec. 6. Property found by the appraisers to be of no intrinsic or commercial value, after being appraised and recorded as such, may be donated to state institutions for the use of patients or inmates or to charitable institutions, or may be destroyed, but the inventories of such property shall first be submitted to the state administrative board and the authority of that board secured for such disposition of the property. Property remaining unsold by the state police after having been offered for sale at any 2 state police sales may be disposed of by the commissioner of the state police in the same manner upon order of the state administrative board.

History: 1957, Act 238, Eff. Sept. 27, 1957.


----------



## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

stickbow shooter said:


> So Russ is ok with guy's breaking the law ?


That was my first thought when I saw that posted. I bet if you ask 5 different officers if the dnr you get 5 different answers on the subject. If you follow letter if the law you can never take someone else's property and just say it was abandoned. The idea that you could do this is ludicrous. What would stop you from saying that about a trail camera or any other item?

I doubt you would get in any serious trouble for taking a stand if you were stopped in the process. But if the guy made a complaint about his stand being gone and you were found with it who do you think would be in trouble? An email from russ mason wouldn't matter.


----------



## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

That's the whole idea, Email, pull them, turn them in at the next natural resources meeting.
Then the issue would be front and center in front of everybody.
Bet a solution would result.

Dirty Steve, do you work for the state?


----------



## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

It just so happens that an "Ask the DNR" program is being televised tonight on WLUC-TV-13 in Marquette at 8PM (Eastern). I submitted a link to this thread and several questions via email to Mr John Pepin who is the DNR PR person for the U.P. Hopefully, some of these Q's can be clarified tonight. The program will be repeated at Noon on April 21.

Hi John - I see that there is an “Ask The DNR” program on TV-13 tonight and would like to see some clarification on abandoned tree stands on public property. I have provided the link to a thread on the Michigan Sportsman’s Forum which highlights many of the concerns.
My questions are these:
1) According to the Hunting Law Digest, "Constructed Ground Blinds found on public land prior to Sept 1 or after the end of the deer season will be considered abandoned”. Does this apply to abandoned or illegal tree stands without the owners name on them as well?
2) Does this law apply to Commercial Forest Lands which are open to the public as well?
3) Can a citizen or sportsman’s club lawfully remove an illegal or abandoned tree stand from public property and turn it into the DNR or other law enforcement agency for disposition?
4) Many sportsman have reported these illegal stands, including the GPS coordinates of where they can be located, but they are very seldom, if ever, removed by the DNR. Why is this?
Thank you,

BTW - 2 NRC Commissioners will be on the show tonight - Chairman John Matonich of Bessemer and Commissioner J.R. Richardson of Ontonagon. George Madison of the Fisheries Div and C.O. Sgt Marc Pomroy will be on the panel as well.


----------



## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

We reported the location of stands this year, not sure if anything became of it.
Busy this weekend and a banquet for presentation of hunting trophies to disabled individuals in Grand Blank on Monday.
But as soon as we can we will see if anything has been done (this should be the lite duty part of a conservation officers year)


----------



## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Alan Michaels said:


> That's the whole idea, Email, pull them, turn them in at the next natural resources meeting.
> Then the issue would be front and center in front of everybody.
> Bet a solution would result.
> 
> Dirty Steve, do you work for the state?



No I don't work for the state. I have just read this same thread every year for the last 5 yrs and i am stating facts that stsnd in the way. It always comes up. CO'S have chimed in on the subject in past yrs. I am just repeating some of the same things that have been said in the past. I personally asked a CO once in roscommon and he told me that if he encountered a person in april with a stand on their back with no name he would give the option of a ticket or larceny charge. He basically said that because if you had your stand out after the date you deserve a ticket. If you try to get out of it by saying it is someone else's he could give you a charge for larceny.

For the record I would be fine with the state allowing people to claim them. I would never buy another stand as long as I live. The issue it could never happen because we have abandonment laws in place that would have to be changed. I don't see that happening for a specific item. You open up a can of worms.


----------



## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

Sure hope they address it wildthing


----------



## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

I just recorded it on DVR so I will be sure to check and let you know...

Email questions had to be received by 2 PM today to be included on the show so it was submitted in time. Sent it at 1:04 PM.


----------



## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

Its for fishing season and fire prevention, do you think that they address the stand issue?


----------



## BadgerRidge (May 2, 2015)

Grew up near Pontiac rec area... knew quite a few of the employees and even the head DNR guy for that area when I was a kid... so this was over 20 yrs ago...

Some facts: 

If the stand is not labeled as to who the owner is (like required by law) and you remove it... how could the DNR ever know you weren't taking your own property out of the woods? (statement from the DNR head of the time)

The guys in Pontiac Rec were under staffed and over worked. They had little time to take care of this: they appreciated it when stands went away.

Because my brother and I were known to those who worked there (ie we were in boy scouts with their kids, or they were our scout leaders etc...) we were known as the good guys. We were good scouts and always left the place better than what we found. We occasionally reported poachers, or even helped the workers with tasks (like dumping trash cans at the range) if we ran into them. They were our friends and neighbors. We knew those who were in charge - personally.

Lots of un-labeled stands that stayed up after the season ended up coming down, but not by the hands off the employees/DNR.

If you asked those in charge, they couldn't authorize you to remove someone else's property, but they had no problem seeing the stands cleaned up. 

YMMV.


----------



## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

BadgerRidge said:


> Grew up near Pontiac rec area... knew quite a few of the employees and even the head DNR guy for that area when I was a kid... so this was over 20 yrs ago...
> 
> Some facts:
> 
> ...


Isn't it nice when common sense prevails...


----------



## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

DeerSlayer36 said:


> Highland Recreation area on Duck Lake road is just full of tree stands left up.


Now that you reported where the tree stands are, start watching Craigslist for an increase of stands for sale.


----------



## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

Abandoned, illegal, whatever, if it isn't mine, I don't muck with it, that's just the way I was raised. Report it and move on. 

One of you treestand pirates are going to run into the wrong person while you're confiscating someones tree trash, it's only a matter of time. 

You can save yourself some time by not typing out how tall you are and how much you weigh, or how much you bench pressed in high school, or what caliber Glock you carry at all times. None of that is gonna matter when the situation goes south. 

Will that abandoned $60 treestand be worth it?


----------



## dafuzz89 (Jul 31, 2013)

I think the DNR should start a program that 90 days after a specified date, you could remove the stand, report the location found (gps) and a pic of the stand. After another 90 days if no one claims it, it's yours. If someone does claim it, they get a ticket.


----------



## MuddybootsGB (May 14, 2016)

I tend to agree with leave it and report it. Some folks believe the stand location is theirs and no one is going to "drive" them out of it. No stand is worth your life or anyone else's. If DNR/CO's do not want to deal with it, then recourse is to "elevate" it to next level of responsibility in DNR. Either enforce the law or do away with it. If an "adopt a area" could be implemented, then stand removal becomes recognized as legal means to remove trash from woods. I could even see publishing a 30 day notice at March 1st stating a specific area is going to be walked to remove all trash including treestands. I know this is a reach, but it would be an interesting "community service" activity.......


----------



## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

BadgerRidge said:


> Grew up near Pontiac rec area... knew quite a few of the employees and even the head DNR guy for that area when I was a kid... so this was over 20 yrs ago...
> 
> Some facts:
> 
> If the stand is not labeled as to who the owner is (like required by law) and you remove it... how could the DNR ever know you weren't taking your own property out of the woods? (statement from the DNR head of the time)


It isn't up to them to decide if it is your it is up to you to prove it. 


This thread topic comes up every year. A couple of yrs ago I ran into a CO in roscommon county heading out turkey hunting. I asked this same question about removing stands. His answer to me was that anyone caught with a stand in the woods without his name on it would get a warning from him for that offense. If you had the stand on you and you were removing it after march 1 he would probably give.you a ticket for not removing it on time. If you tried to avoid the ticket by claiming you were taking down someone else's stand he would give you the choice of illegal stand or larceny. His recommendation was to leave someone else's stand alone and report it. This was his way of making you accept the illegal stand ticket.


----------



## triplelunger (Dec 21, 2009)

I get waaayyyy more PO'ed with seeing old appliances, cars, and other real trash in the woods to shed many tears over seeing a couple treestands 15-20 ft in the trees in July.


----------



## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

A couple things that bug me about stands not being removed after season include those never retrieved( timber and or saw damage in time).
The biggest is safety. Metals can be affected by sub zero temps and the differing temp between a trunk and ambient air temp. Screw in steps now banned were a good example. The T- screws I would not re- use if over wintered in a trunk too.
Straps suffer from the elements alone and critters can violate them as well.
Many hunters check a stand before occupying it ,but not all.

The territorial use does not bug me, unless like one site I know and would report if the hunting was decent where the access to parking trail is blocked by the stand user.


----------



## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

DirtySteve said:


> *It isn't up to them to decide if it is your it is up to you to prove it. *
> 
> 
> This thread topic comes up every year. A couple of yrs ago I ran into a CO in roscommon county heading out turkey hunting. I asked this same question about removing stands. His answer to me was that anyone caught with a stand in the woods without his name on it would get a warning from him for that offense. If you had the stand on you and you were removing it after march 1 he would probably give.you a ticket for not removing it on time. *If you tried to avoid the ticket by claiming you were taking down someone else's stand he would give you the choice of illegal stand or larceny. * His recommendation was to leave someone else's stand alone and report it. *This was his way of making you accept the illegal stand ticket.*



The C.O. was blowing smoke Dirty Steve ... and you obviously inhaled it. Like I said many pages back, there isn't a prosecutor in the world who would ever try to prosecute anyone under these circumstances. The nice thing about the criminal justice system in this country is that you do not have to prove your innocence - the burden of proof has always been upon the prosecution. How many receipts do you still have for tree stands you have purchased over the years?


----------



## Fool'em (Sep 29, 2016)

Steve said:


> There would be a ton of that.
> 
> I wonder what the new rules will bring. Also @Pinefarm2015 the rules you posted deal with state land. What (if anything) is different if they are on federal land?


I turned in an illegal permanent blind and about 6 old collapsed blinds in the Ottawa NF a couple years ago. The group of bear hunters would build tar paper shacks and just leave them I got pissed when they became possessive of the area and ran my old man off. I showed a co the blinds and debris and even provided him a picture of the owners name and address painted on the side. They had removed it once they left the area. The next season all trace of those blinds was gone. Even the old rotting 2x4s. We did find some old dirty t shirts and water bottles so my guess is the owners had to make a 8hr drive to remove their litter from the woods. I did not see the officer around last season or I would have stopped him and thanked him


----------



## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

wildthing said:


> The C.O. was blowing smoke Dirty Steve ... and you obviously inhaled it. Like I said many pages back, there isn't a prosecutor in the world who would ever try to prosecute anyone under these circumstances. The nice thing about the criminal justice system in this country is that you do not have to prove your innocence - the burden of proof has always been upon the prosecution. How many receipts do you still have for tree stands you have purchased over the years?


A Cuban friend explained that assumption of guilt over less valued items in Cuba.
A reciept for something you are carrying on the street was considered proof of ownership... in his example of a pair of jeans.

Bless the U.S.A. !


----------



## James Dymond (Feb 23, 2002)

Some of those stands are tribal, I talked to CO Fox here in Presque Isle County. I guess they don't have to follow all the rules us white guys are supposed to.
Jim


----------



## hear fishie fishie (Feb 26, 2015)

Alan Michaels said:


> *Get GPS Location*
> *E-Mail these people;*
> 
> *Terri Jensen, DNR*
> ...


Great post!
Should be made a sticky for future reference.
Would only need to be updated as the players change.
Best aproach for stands found in woods get gps location and report to rap line. Local DNR officer will respond as they know if that don't the line becomes useless.
There are a lot of laws on the books that there just isn't enough manpower to enforce them all without good starting point information. Response isn't always instantaneous but they do the best they can with the available resources at hand.


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

DirtySteve said:


> There is a legal process that even the state has to go through to declare something abondoned.... you certainly cant. They have to make an attempt to allow the owner to claim it (more than one) hold it for a period of time and get a judge sugnature. This is why when they take a stand down it is generally a project where they do many at once in a day in a group effort. They process them all at once. Having officers take a single stand down is an enormous waste of tax payers money. That is why they don't do it and don't care unless someone complains many times.
> 
> Complaining about old stands in the woods is equivalent to complaining about something trivial like Jay walking in the street. Making law enforcement deal with it is a burden that isn't necasary. A mildly irritating occurance that isnt worth the cost of dealing with it.


Old tree stands can damage trees to the point of killing them. Jaywalking doesn't endanger natural resources. Complaining is the only strictly legal solution.


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

James Dymond said:


> Some of those stands are tribal, I talked to CO Fox here in Presque Isle County. I guess they don't have to follow all the rules us white guys are supposed to.
> Jim


They do on public land......


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

Alan Michaels said:


> We reported the location of stands this year, not sure if anything became of it.
> Busy this weekend and a banquet for presentation of hunting trophies to disabled individuals in Grand Blank on Monday.
> But as soon as we can we will see if anything has been done (this should be the lite duty part of a conservation officers year)


That was a great banquet once again


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

DirtySteve said:


> Ha. Wouldn't it be great of we could all just make up our own rules of how we think things should be legal based on our own common sense. You are leaving out all sorts of issues that you aren't thinking about.
> 
> The law is pretty clear. If something isn't yours you can't take it. You can't declare something abondoned no matter what the item is.
> 
> What if a car is left on the street in front of your mailbox for a week? By your logic all you need to do is send an email to the state and assume somebody read it......You get to claim a car.


Parking legally on the street and abandoning a stand after a clear deadline do not correlate.


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

triplelunger said:


> Am I allowed to take a car that is illegally parked? What about one with no license plate? Is an abandoned car fair game?


Public streets vs public recreation areas differ greatly. Is an abandoned car a direct threat to natural resources? Rhetorical question. We all know the answer.


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

DirtySteve said:


> Maybe in your eyes it is apples vs oranges. The issue is that in the laws eyes they aren't really any different and that was my point.
> 
> I understand what people are saying that they should make a rule to allow tree stands to be confiscated by people. In theory I like the idea. There are a couple issues with that where I believe it won't work. The first is that we have abondonment laws for a reason in this state and a rule to allow people to claim items (no matter what they are) negates those laws.
> 
> ...


I'm all for a report and approve removal solution with GPS coordinates if no personal info is posted on that property (should be legally considered abandoned immediately). If that property placement violates two separate laws,(name requirement and removal requirement) report it, DNR approves removal, responsible hunter removes. DNR saves time and $, natural resources protected.


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

DirtySteve said:


> Just as stupid as a person who thinks they can take another person's stand because they left it past March 1. That was my point.


So using your logic that would apply to any remaining bait left over 24 hours as well. Lol


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

DirtySteve said:


> I get some people get fired up about left stands. I don't really care one way or the other because I do my best to follow the laws. When I walk thru the woods I don't get any more offended by the sight of a stand in June than I do in october. If it is an eyesore in June it is an eyesore in october.....but very few are griping about them being there in sept til march. As far as people claiming spots I would rather have them do that. Nothing worse then hanging my stand and then having them set up on me a week later. It allows me the opurtunity to avoid them. I am not for a rule where you can't leave stands overnight. That would be a royal pain to me. Also the only thing worse than having a person sit next to me and hunt would be a guy hanging a stand next to me when I am hunting.
> 
> One thing I can definately say is that I can not agree with people interpreting the law on their own and confiscating stands. I have had a couple legal stands stolen. I don't want to open up the idea of taking stands to people that normally don't. I don't trust that 20% of the guys out there won't think a stand in sept is illegal.


When hanging stands on state land there is always a theft risk. There will always be more thieves than "do gooders" attempting to remove an illegal stand. I think people hanging stands and leaving them up all year to "claim" an area is bs. I'd rather see them.lose their hunting privaleges for multiple violations. Would send a very clear message.


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

DirtySteve said:


> I also wonder what a new rule would bring. If enough people complain about treestands and demand removal who knows? I read comments about texting GPS coordinates and repeatedly calling in complaints. The DNR could just say they aren't worth it and ban treestands on state land all together. That would probably be an easier solution than allowing the public to regulate laws.


We hire the lawmakers.to represent us, not rule us, so why wouldn't we want to regulate the laws to suit our needs and protect our natural resources?


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

GVDocHoliday said:


> Stands left out after March first on public land is a misdemeanor.
> 
> Also remember, any stands up on public property is available for ALL public use. After March 1st, treestands are considered abandoned property/litter and available for anyone to remove legally.


Not sure where you found that verbiage in any laws/regs.


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

Lucky Dog said:


> Now that you can hunt coyotes from elevated stands, and coyote season is open all year, are the stands really illegal?


According to the H and F Guide, yes they are.


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

DirtySteve said:


> This is great idea.
> 
> I would be all for an organized event were sportsman got together and cleared a section of woods of treestands. As long as it was an organized type of deal with dnr involvement at some level. Drop the stands off at the end of the day and let the dnr get them in the state auction. I think this is a far better solution than texting the dnr GPS locations and logging complaint after complaint.
> 
> My only beef is the idea of telling the general public they can just go out and take stands at will. I see too many underlying issues going that route.


If they are abandoned (especially unmarked stands) what would be the underlying issues?


----------



## fairfax1 (Jun 12, 2003)

Wow! What a great thread....on a topic that has been well-plowed in prior years. Still, there is much to like in the views expressed.

Some shout-outs:
*Pinefarm* in posts #11 & 96. What PF did is responsible sportsmanship. And importantly....he has raised the awareness and thus the sensitivity to the problem by the head of the Wildlife Division. Contacts like PF's do get noticed. And the more the merrier.

*Alan Michaels*...several posts, but #39 is of the same calilber as PF's #11. He gives us concerned sportsmen a road map on who to call or write with our concerns .

And then #53 & #54 by posters *Mac66* and *jr28* ------ I ain't a lawyer or ever been in law enforcement so could not offer insight into the legal liability, but, from my very personal very civilian perspective ---- it is just a darn shame if someone's illegal stand ran into an illegal taking expedited by someone's battery DeWalt. Two wrongs don't make a right. However, life is full of such little anomalies. So be it.

A couple more comments: I think the idea of volunteering to help your local CO remove 'em is great on several levels: first, he may need and appreciate the help; second, you've raised his awareness that at least one within his jurisdiction believes abandoned treestands are a problem. That's not a bad thing. When I see either of the two who stop by my farm I'm gonna offer my help.....and I'll bring the aluminum ladder.

Lastly, look how much this topic resonates with the readers of this M-S forum ---- in just a matter of days there have been near 200 posts. There clearly is an issue. Russ Mason, as alert as he is. surely will recognize this is a topic that can have traction with the sportsmen of Michigan and, it follows, traction for the regulators, the NRC Commissioners.

Great thread!


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

wildthing said:


> If they don't have the name of the owner on them they are illegal and they can not be left in the woods after March 1.


They can't be left after Mar 1st in any case, owner's name or not.


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

William H Bonney said:


> Abandoned, illegal, whatever, if it isn't mine, I don't muck with it, that's just the way I was raised. Report it and move on.
> 
> One of you treestand pirates are going to run into the wrong person while you're confiscating someones tree trash, it's only a matter of time.
> 
> ...


The chances of that happening is almost nil. You are FAR more apt to have a run-in during the season over a hunting area. As I have with some window lickers who thought that an area they hunted regulay was "theirs".


----------



## triplelunger (Dec 21, 2009)

I'm really curious, do all of you call the DNR if you see a discarded washing machine in the woods? Or is it only if someone puts a tree stand in your spot? I mean our main concern here is keeping the forests clean, right?


----------



## t_bell40 (Nov 9, 2008)

Just to clarify. You are saying the tree stands are illegal because they are being left after the season is over or because they don't have the persons name on them or both. ??


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

triplelunger said:


> I'm really curious, do all of you call the DNR if you see a discarded washing machine in the woods? Or is it only if someone puts a tree stand in your spot? I mean our main concern here is keeping the forests clean, right?


Keeping aggressive hunters from "staking out" an area isn't a valid reason to report? More than one hunter here has mentioned the adopt-a-forest program option too, so I don't think there is a need to be condescending. Keeping hunters that don't play fairly in line, is reason enough to address the illegal tree stand issue.


----------



## triplelunger (Dec 21, 2009)

Big Beard said:


> Keeping aggressive hunters from "staking out" an area isn't a valid reason to report? More than one hunter here has mentioned the adopt-a-forest program option too, so I don't think there is a need to be condescending. Keeping hunters that don't play fairly in line, is reason enough to address the illegal tree stand issue.


Playing the "litter" card is just funny to me. There is much more low hanging fruit to clean up public hunting areas that treestands.


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

t_bell40 said:


> Just to clarify. You are saying the tree stands are illegal because they are being left after the season is over or because they don't have the persons name on them or both. ??


Any stand left after Mar 1 is illegal. Any stand without personal info attached, is illegal, at any time.


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

triplelunger said:


> Playing the "litter" card is just funny to me. There is much more low hanging fruit to clean up public hunting areas that treestands.


I'm personally far more concerned with protecting timber. I know it appears some may have "played the litter card" but those are probably the guys actually packing out trash, cans, and reporting dumping.


----------



## triplelunger (Dec 21, 2009)

Big Beard said:


> I'm personally far more concerned with protecting timber. I know it appears some may have "played the litter card" but those are probably the guys actually packing out trash, cans, and reporting dumping.


What percentage of timber is being compromised by illegal tree stands... again, curious.


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

triplelunger said:


> What percentage of timber is being compromised by illegal tree stands... again, curious.


I don't think that is a question anyone could answer accurately. I think the bigger question is how can we effectively enforce a law that is in place to protect our natural resources and keep our sportsman and women safe? Empowering volunteers to rid our woods of a nuisance that is an ongoing threat to our natural resources seems like a no-brainer. I don't see how opposing it is productive.


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

triplelunger said:


> Playing the "litter" card is just funny to me. There is much more low hanging fruit to clean up public hunting areas that treestands.


And that litter should be addressed as it does affect our natural resources, like water sources/supply. Old growth timber is at risk with tree stand misuse and should also be a priority.


----------



## triplelunger (Dec 21, 2009)

Big Beard said:


> And that litter should be addressed as it does affect our natural resources, like water sources/supply. Old growth timber is at risk with tree stand misuse and should also be a priority.


I guess it just doesn't bother me all that much to see a couple tree stands through the summer. I, however, could get on board with a group removing real trash from rivers and public hunting areas.


----------



## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

triplelunger said:


> Playing the "litter" card is just funny to me. .............


Litter is a joke to a lot of individuals. Birds of a feather flock together.

L & O


----------



## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

hear fishie fishie said:


> Would take a lot of CO'S to stake out with no guarantee of stand even being hunted opening day.
> If CO'S too busy during slacker times of year you really think they would have time for stake out duty opening day?


I hate to say it ... and I may be looking at this issue the wrong way, but I get the impression that the C.O.'s would just as soon leave the illegal stands/ground blinds there so they have the opportunity to write a ticket if they find it in use, rather than take the time and effort to remove it. Hopefully that isn't the case...

The C.O. that called me said there was a crew in Lansing that was responsible for removing illegal stands and that is why it may take forever for them to get around to the one you report. How often can I expect a crew in Lansing to drive 400+ miles to remove an illegal stand I find??


----------



## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

wildthing said:


> I hate to say it ... and I may be looking at this issue the wrong way, but I get the impression that the C.O.'s would just as soon leave the illegal stands/ground blinds there so they have the opportunity to write a ticket if they find it in use, rather than take the time and effort to remove it. Hopefully that isn't the case...
> 
> The C.O. that called me said there was a crew in Lansing that was responsible for removing illegal stands and that is why it may take forever for them to get around to the one you report. How often can I expect a crew in Lansing to drive 400+ miles to remove an illegal stand I find??


Not to often, them city boys are scared to get lost up there.


----------



## thill (Aug 23, 2006)

L.E.Stick said:


> move on or hunt them


Move on...never. Hunt them...yes!


----------



## skipper34 (Oct 13, 2005)

thill said:


> Move on...never. Hunt them...yes!


Yes, hunt them, but make damn sure that your name and address is on it. Don't get caught hunting an illegal stand even if it isn't yours. Treestands are first come first serve on public land just like duck blinds.


----------



## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

hear fishie fishie said:


> Would take a lot of CO'S to stake out with no guarantee of stand even being hunted opening day.
> If CO'S too busy during slacker times of year you really think they would have time for stake out duty opening day?


I have a family member that was staked out opening day. I think that is mostly what they do on the opener. Someone reported him for over baiting. He dropped several bags of beets 3 weeks before rifle season knowing he was leaving out of state for several weeks and he would be gone until the opener. After he was reported the Co came out and looked at his ladder stand which he had no name on. The CO made a point to drive by several times and look for a truck over the next 3 weeks with no luck. He came back the morning of Nov 15. He snuck up on my relative and his young son. At the time there was a fresh bag of beets out plus 3-4 gallons of corn. My relative also had no license on him since he accidentally left it at the cabin and his wallet was in his truck so no drivers license either.

Now you would think he would have been issued several citations after causing all that trouble to the CO. The CO actually commended him for getting youth involved by taking his young son out with him on opening day. The officer said he had to write him up for the bait because a complaint was called and he was required to follow up in that complaint....he was almost apologetic about it. He told him to pick up the beets and spread the corn around. He then said just bring out something to add your name to the stand and you will be allowed to hunt the stand legally tomorrow. He then helped my relative carry his gear to his truck and allowed him to present his drivers license so he could check for deer license.

This relative did end up paying a $350 for his bait. I am sure that is why the officer let him slide on other infractions. The fee was enough to make him pay attention and follow the rules to the letter of the law last season.


----------



## triplelunger (Dec 21, 2009)

DirtySteve said:


> I have a family member that was staked out opening day. I think that is mostly what they do on the opener. Someone reported him for over baiting. He dropped several bags of beets 3 weeks before rifle season knowing he was leaving out of state for several weeks and he would be gone until the opener. After he was reported the Co came out and looked at his ladder stand which he had no name on. The CO made a point to drive by several times and look for a truck over the next 3 weeks with no luck. He came back the morning of Nov 15. He snuck up on my relative and his young son. At the time there was a fresh bag of beets out plus 3-4 gallons of corn. My relative also had no license on him since he accidentally left it at the cabin and his wallet was in his truck so no drivers license either.
> 
> Now you would think he would have been issued several citations after causing all that trouble to the CO. The CO actually commended him for getting youth involved by taking his young son out with him on opening day. The officer said he had to write him up for the bait because a complaint was called and he was required to follow up in that complaint....he was almost apologetic about it. He told him to pick up the beets and spread the corn around. He then said just bring out something to add your name to the stand and you will be allowed to hunt the stand legally tomorrow. He then helped my relative carry his gear to his truck and allowed him to present his drivers license so he could check for deer license.
> 
> This relative did end up paying a $350 for his bait. I am sure that is why the officer let him slide on other infractions. The fee was enough to make him pay attention and follow the rules to the letter of the law last season.


Sounds like a positive and constructive interaction with a CO.


----------



## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Sounds like a poacher training a future poacher. Rules just aren't that important to us, son. One rule I can see missing, overbait, no ID, no license on him, illegal stand. Wow.


----------



## skipper34 (Oct 13, 2005)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> Sounds like a poacher training a future poacher. Rules just aren't that important to us, son. One rule I can see missing, overbait, no ID, no license on him, illegal stand. Wow.


Hey Driven, that's a little harsh, don't you think? Not all CO's are poachers and not all CO's are ding dongs. You should feel fortunate that they are out there keeping the riff raff at bay, at least trying to.


----------



## jr28schalm (Mar 16, 2006)

350 for bait..guess I'll dump a truck load next year


----------



## hear fishie fishie (Feb 26, 2015)

I'd be willing to bet the CO is keeping an eye on him.
Shame on him if he reverts to law breaking. 
You think the CO will be as forgiving if subsequent violations occur?
Also , the Co's statement " he had to follow up on the complaint" . Its part of his job and he has to do something when the complaint is verified or he might join the ranks of unemployed. 
Use the RAP line for law violations and there will be an investigation by boots on the ground and when possible action taken when the violation has been verified.


----------



## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Hey Driven, that's a little harsh, don't you think? Not all CO's are poachers and not all CO's are ding dongs. You should feel fortunate that they are out there keeping the riff raff at bay, at least trying to.

No, I meant the dad teaching the son to poach. I'm amazed the CO noted four violations and then commended the guy about getting a youth out to "hunt". My local CO thought nothing about wailing on me over a non-issue issue in front of my then 12 year old daughter, who has over 2000 hours on the water / in the field as my main fishing / hunting buddy. I certainly didn't get a "good job" for taking her out hunting, instead he planted the seeds of distrust of authorities in my daughter's mind.


----------



## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> Sounds like a poacher training a future poacher. Rules just aren't that important to us, son. One rule I can see missing, overbait, no ID, no license on him, illegal stand. Wow.


Well the guy is a pretty good dude overall. He wasn't a guy to leave his stand or anything like that. The name on the stand he didn't even know it was a requirement. I know ignorance is not an excuse but....I have only once in my life seen a name on a stand in the woods. Maybe some have it if you climb up there to look closely but they are just as illegal as the guy who doesn't put it on if you want to be nitpicky. The CO even said it was no big deal but he should probably do it. The forgetting the license happens all the time. I have seen it more than once while fishing and once while duckhunting. CO checked the drivers license and let them go with a warning to carry. I even once witnessed a hunter with no duckstamp that claimed it was at his cabin 10 miles away. The CO allowed his buddy to take him to get it while he waited in the woods at his truck. He held the guys drivers license in the meantime. The CO was waiting on the trail to check hunters who came out of the woods anyway at the time.


----------



## triplelunger (Dec 21, 2009)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> Hey Driven, that's a little harsh, don't you think? Not all CO's are poachers and not all CO's are ding dongs. You should feel fortunate that they are out there keeping the riff raff at bay, at least trying to.
> 
> No, I meant the dad teaching the son to poach. I'm amazed the CO noted four violations and then commended the guy about getting a youth out to "hunt". My local CO thought nothing about wailing on me over a non-issue issue in front of my then 12 year old daughter, who has over 2000 hours on the water / in the field as my main fishing / hunting buddy. I certainly didn't get a "good job" for taking her out hunting, instead he planted the seeds of distrust of authorities in my daughter's mind.


What was the non issue?


----------



## miruss (Apr 18, 2003)

triplelunger said:


> What was the non issue?


You mean the one where he was teaching his DAUGHTER to break the law!!! Don't you knoiw the law he broke was a non issue but not putting a name on a stand should be a HANGING offense!!


----------



## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> Hey Driven, that's a little harsh, don't you think? Not all CO's are poachers and not all CO's are ding dongs. You should feel fortunate that they are out there keeping the riff raff at bay, at least trying to.
> 
> No, I meant the dad teaching the son to poach. I'm amazed the CO noted four violations and then commended the guy about getting a youth out to "hunt". My local CO thought nothing about wailing on me over a non-issue issue in front of my then 12 year old daughter, who has over 2000 hours on the water / in the field as my main fishing / hunting buddy. I certainly didn't get a "good job" for taking her out hunting, instead he planted the seeds of distrust of authorities in my daughter's mind.


In my experiences they are all different. No different than any other field of work. I too have been given stern warnings by a LEO in front of my kids. It was a snowmobiling incident I have told many times on here. I was in the right. I had to agree and head home because I didn't want to set a precedent that it was OK to argue with law enforcement. I later went to their office and straightened it out. I was later contacted by the officer and given an apology on my voicemail. I made sure the kids heard that.


----------



## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> No, I meant the dad teaching the son to poach.


Calling someone a poacher over a misdemeanor infraction is the equivalent of referring your coworker who was born to a single mother as bastard. It may be technically accurate to the letter of the definition.....but you probably wouldn't say it as a common label to their face. Most wouldn't accept it as a definition today.


----------



## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

One oops, maybe not. Four oops considering one was a deliberate over baiting, not afraid to say he's poaching. Let's not be afraid to call a spade a spade.

Maybe I'm in the wrong but when a CO pulls my daughter aside and tries to talk to her without my consent, and then rips me on a bs charge in front of her, you damned well better expect in that teachable moment I'm not going to smile and nod and say "yes sir, please give me that ticket, and make me take a day off and go to court and hopefully get it thrown out or have it on my record and make me unemployable and not able to provide for my family". I called him out on it as the best case was not to get the ticket in the first place. Same guy my daughter had previous history with as he tried to throw us out of a parking lot while "camping". Two kids in a Jeep with no provisions at all, watching the last 30 minutes of bird movement at a managed area before dark to help decide what zone we want to hunt the next morning, and I have to "leave now or get a ticket for camping".

Uh, no. I'm watching these birds and in 15 minutes I'll be gone.

She's learned to have the utmost respect for those that deserve it and has had many positive, some wonderful experiences with LEO's and CO's. CO's with a chip on their shoulder making claims they can't support don't get my respect, in fact they deserve to get complete and total contempt for the abuse of their position. You don't get respect from a title, you earn it.


----------



## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

jr28schalm said:


> 350 for bait..guess I'll dump a truck load next year


That's pretty cheap. Beets (pun intended) the cost of a food plot.


----------



## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> One oops, maybe not. Four oops considering one was a deliberate over baiting, not afraid to say he's poaching. Let's not be afraid to call a spade a spade.
> 
> Maybe I'm in the wrong but when a CO pulls my daughter aside and tries to talk to her without my consent, and then rips me on a bs charge in front of her, you damned well better expect in that teachable moment I'm not going to smile and nod and say "yes sir, please give me that ticket, and make me take a day off and go to court and hopefully get it thrown out or have it on my record and make me unemployable and not able to provide for my family". I called him out on it as the best case was not to get the ticket in the first place. Same guy my daughter had previous history with as he tried to throw us out of a parking lot while "camping". Two kids in a Jeep with no provisions at all, watching the last 30 minutes of bird movement at a managed area before dark to help decide what zone we want to hunt the next morning, and I have to "leave now or get a ticket for camping".
> 
> ...


Sounds very similar to the one and only experience I ever had with a USF&W Fish Cop one time. The guy was completely unprofessional, definitely had a chip on his shoulder and would have written me for anything and everything he could have found. Even after stripping my entire car he couldn't find anything to write me up for and ended up going away disappointed... What a jerk! 

On the contrary, every experience I have ever had with a Michigan C.O. has been completely professional and concluded on a positive note. There is just no comparison between the two. No complaints here at all with our MDNR officers.


----------



## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

triplelunger said:


> I'm really curious, do all of you call the DNR if you see a discarded washing machine in the woods? Or is it only if someone puts a tree stand in your spot? I mean our main concern here is keeping the forests clean, right?


No haul them out ourselves, along with tires and all sorts of trash, cleaned up a nasty abandoned camp site last year, and the worst of all was the stolen car that was torched, wrecker hauled it out, we cleaned it up (that was almost a pickup load itself, a crap load of glass) have to pay to dispose of tires.


----------



## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Alan Michaels said:


> No haul them out ourselves, along with tires and all sorts of trash, cleaned up a nasty abandoned camp site last year, and the worst of all was the stolen car that was torched, wrecker hauled it out, we cleaned it up (that was almost a pickup load itself, a crap load of glass) have to pay to dispose of tires.


Thank you. There are other sportsmen like you and groups that will do the same thing when given the go ahead by the DNR/NRC to remove the trash from the trees......abandoned stands. And then there are the slobs that leave them there and those who come here and encourage the behavior because believe they have the right to be "pro-choice" when it comes to litter on State land.
Birds of a feather flock together. Or simply --turds like to stink together.

L & O


----------



## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

Yes it was a fantastic banquet Monday Night Big Beard. 
My wife was contacted and they told her they were going to remove those stands so way to go DNR, Russ Mason and crew.


----------



## LastGWH (Apr 28, 2017)

wildthing said:


> How about these things?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's wood. Knock it down. It will rot with the rest of the wood in this photo.


----------



## jr28schalm (Mar 16, 2006)

And the ones on 4x4 treated lumber..cut with chain saw and scream timber...nov 15th at 7 am is best time


----------



## hear fishie fishie (Feb 26, 2015)

Been reading the CO reports. Lots of enforcement action going on in regards to illegal tree stands and blinds just doesn't make the newspapers.
Great big thank you to the involved CO's.


----------



## U of M Fan (May 8, 2005)

Big Beard said:


> The chances of that happening is almost nil. You are FAR more apt to have a run-in during the season over a hunting area. As I have with some window lickers who thought that an area they hunted regulay was "theirs".


It only takes one time.


----------



## U of M Fan (May 8, 2005)

wildthing said:


> How about these things?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There are a couple like that where I go in Ottawa NF. There is even an old hippie bus, that I'm convinced is Stickbows, that's been abandoned a half mile back on a logging road. LOL


----------



## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

DirtySteve said:


> I kind if think the better option is to mark it and wait til next season to report it. The CO will make a point to drive by when he is in the area try to catch the guy using the stand. This is a better option because the user has to remove and not waste the CO'S time taking it down.....and he gets a ticket out of it. The ticket will be far more painful than the cost of the stand.



In my experience - the great majority of these stands are never used. They are either abandoned, or put in place to keep other hunters out of the area but not intended to be hunted.


----------



## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

DirtySteve said:


> The law is pretty clear. If something isn't yours you can't take it. You can't declare something abondoned no matter what the item is.


If something isn't yours, and is on state property, you can't just take it.

If it is abandoned on your property - the law is a little different.

...and in general straling a treestand would fall under "petty theft" in the Michigan code, and would require the owner of the stand to file a criminal complaint.


----------



## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

triplelunger said:


> Am I allowed to take a car that is illegally parked? What about one with no license plate? Is an abandoned car fair game?


A vehicle or vessel may be considered abandoned when it is:

A vehicle or vessel on private property without the consent of the owner.
A vehicle or vessel that has remained on public property for not less than 48 hours.
A vehicle that has remained on a state trunk line if a valid registration plate is not affixed to the vehicle.

When an abandoned vehicle or vessel is taken into custody, the owner and any secured party (most often a lending institution) are notified by mail of the vehicle or vessel's status and location.

If you or the secured party do not redeem the vehicle or vessel or request a hearing within 20 days, it may be sold at public auction, and you lose all rights to the vehicle or vessel.


----------



## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

DirtySteve said:


> The laws actually define them as illegal treestands not trash. If you leave an appliance on state land and you are caught you will be ticketed for illegal dumping. If you leave a treestand on state land without your name or beyond the deadline and your are caught you will be ticketed for an illegal treestand.


...and littering.

Any abandoned property (cars, boats, tree stands, etc.) are subject to littering laws.


----------



## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

triplelunger said:


> Playing the "litter" card is just funny to me. There is much more low hanging fruit to clean up public hunting areas that treestands.



I pick up that litter.

...and where I hunt, 90% of the litter is related to hunters. Abandoned stands are probably the largest contributor by volume.


----------



## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

Big Beard said:


> That said removing a stand every day is egregious. I hope that never happens.


I have to do it with my pop-up by law, why should tree stands be treated differently?


----------



## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

buggs said:


> I'm calling you out on this one - no one - except Law enforcement or a land owner - has any right to take another persons property.



False.

A number of private folks are legally allowed to be "custodians" of abandoned property.

If someone abandons a car on your property - you can call a private towing company to haul it away, no need to contact police.


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

March 1st?


Randy Bailey said:


> Pretty sure i read in the michigan hunting rule book that any stand still on state land after last day of season ...Jan 1st is considered abandoned property. I asked a CO in baldwin area and i was told that abandoned stands are free for the taking..?


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

pescadero said:


> I have to do it with my pop-up by law, why should tree stands be treated differently?


A pop up weighs a few lbs, and takes a few minutes to remove. A tree stand set up could take hours. Is that a serious comparison?


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

wildthing said:


> How about these things?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If they were on property I bought/leased, be dang sure I'd hunt them if they were in a good spot.


----------



## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

Big Beard said:


> A pop up weighs a few lbs, and takes a few minutes to remove. A tree stand set up could take hours. Is that a serious comparison?



Yep.

You don't have to use a tree stand. It's a choice.

...and there are numerous other states that require exactly that.


----------



## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

You are not required to remove a pop-up daily.
Just have your name on it, re-read the guide on blinds.


----------



## Big Beard (Feb 1, 2017)

pescadero said:


> Yep.
> 
> You don't have to use a tree stand. It's a choice.
> 
> ...and there are numerous other states that require exactly that.


And MI isnt one of them and likely never will be. It's 100% legal to hang a tree stand Sept 1-Mar 1. Tree stands offer a big advantage for some. Especially bow hunters.


----------



## Koondog47 (May 6, 2017)

jr28schalm said:


> I got a 20 volt dewalt grinder ...would u like to barrow it


NICE.... i like that input.. so tired of the trash and garbage that so many leave on the state lands. I agree that we should get involved as state land is OUR land... i take them down... period.


----------



## Koondog47 (May 6, 2017)

thill said:


> I've been scouting a lot of state land this spring and have come across many tree stands that are never taken down. I haven't done anything to them except mark them on my GPS, but it is now getting pretty annoying. They are either from the same guy or guys as the stands are very similar in design and have the same size chain attaching them all. I wouldn't care much if it were just a couple but I'm talking about 15-20 stands.
> 
> I really don't feel like messing with someone's gear even if they are illegal. I am thinking about contacting the DNR but I really don't know if they care.
> 
> What do you guys do when you find illegal stands? Take action or ignore?


 I take them down.


----------



## mbrewer (Aug 16, 2014)

U of M Fan said:


> It only takes one time.


You're trying to reason with people who own a gladiator costume for just in case.


----------

