# How much would you pay for a deer hunting lease in Michigan?



## goodworkstractors (Aug 7, 2007)

Curious how much you guys would pay per acre to lease hunting land in Michigan? From all the postings found here and other websites, it seems there is a lot of interest in leasing hunting land. Seems like I had heard $10 an acre was the standard, although it seems most of the lease opportunities I've seen are higher than that. Maybe I need to look harder.


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

Good hunting land will go for $20+ and acre. I pay $25 an acre. I hunt alot, the hunting is good, the owner is excellent, I have year round access, and habitat work is welcomed. The owner even offered assistance with food plots. Also the owner has even offered me the permission to hunt a seperate 80 acre piece he has about 20 minutes south of my lease free of charge the last two years, I have yet to take him up on that offer. So to me $25-$30 doesn't sound all to bad. Only thing that could make the hunting better would be less hunters, that cost more money per man. So far the past 8 years have been great.

By the way there are 6 of us total and almost 300 acres.


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## Bigchev (Dec 25, 2009)

A bit off subject but how do you pay that meaning is it once a year. I was just thinking about trying to find some but not sure how it all works.


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## Lugian (Aug 19, 2007)

Great thread and great question. Given the trend of real estate values in Michigan, I would say zero to $5. Save up for 5 years, hunt state land in the meantime, and you have a good chunck of money for a down payment just about the time hunting land values hit bottom. 

I will use B and B as an example(those guys are happy with their situation so I'm not questioning them). They have paid almost $60,000 over an 8 year period(300 acresx$25/acre=$7500/year). Thats alot of money if the land owner dies.


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## spice64 (Dec 1, 2004)

Michigan deer hunting sucks.


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## TwodogsNate (Jul 30, 2009)

25-30 an acre is about right, Is It a rip off? Yes It Is, but theres nothing we can do about It. I would suggest to anyone Spend your money on a Ohio Lease. You might be driving a little farther, But when your driving back with a "REAL BUCK" It will be worth It. Like the last guy just posted Mi Hunting Sucks compared to the states that manage there Deer herd's right.


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## FixedBlade (Oct 14, 2002)

0. 0. 0.


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## gunfun13 (Jun 13, 2003)

We pay $25/acre for our lease. Compared to the cost of ownership, its a steal.


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

With partners I wouldn't pay more than $1000 for myself anywhere in the country....at the same time I'd pay that $1000 in MI or any other state that had a few 4 year olds or older running around in the neighborhood.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sullyxlh (Oct 28, 2004)

If I ever had to pay someone to hunt I'd take up fishing.


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## 2Lman (Jul 15, 2009)

i get plenty of venison locally on state land.. i have my share of bucks.. no trophys by no means.. but i eat very well every year..


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## Whitetail1 (Oct 17, 2008)

sullyxlh said:


> If I ever had to pay someone to hunt I'd take up fishing.


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

The bottom line is some don't care for the idea of leasing...but let's face it, not everyone is wealthy enough to own their own land for hunting. 

As land prices continue to increase, and the quality of public land hunting continues to decrease, leasing hunting land is becoming the best option for the average working guy that doesn't have the $$$$ to own their own land. 

I've owned my own hunting land for a total of 15 seasons on property in the thumb and UP and I can't tell you how many times more it costs than leasing....in fact, as a single father who is very active in my kids lives, its getting hard for me personally to justify the expense any longer.

For some perspective...guys will think nothing of spending hundreds of $$$ a year to join a bowling league or two, but wouldn't think of "paying" to hunt for a lifetime of memories. Just something to think about during this "bowling season"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mustang72 (Feb 13, 2005)

Lets not forget taxes! Even if you own your land which I do, you still have to pay every year! 40 acres + around 1,200 in taxes = 30.00 an acre


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## Whitetail1 (Oct 17, 2008)

The one thing that sticks in my mind is where are we , as a hunting society, going to be in 30-50 years with the leasing going the direction it's headed. Is it going to develop into something similar to what England has where only the RICH can hunt because of the cost of leasing property. Those of us that have for years been hunting on family or friends property at no charge may be displaced because "THE MONEY" was too much to turn down. It may develop into a sport where only the fortunate / wealthy can participate. This unfortunate trend could be bad for the sport in the long run.
I both own property and, at no charge, hunt hundreds of acres. Who's to say a group with deep pockets couldn't push me out too?
I'm not a leasing fan but i do see the benefits for those who do.
My thinking is...Buy some property while you can. Even if it takes 2 generations to pay for. It can secure the great hunting heritage in your family forever.


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## Rasputin (Jan 13, 2009)

Lugian said:


> Great thread and great question. Given the trend of real estate values in Michigan, I would say zero to $5. Save up for 5 years, hunt state land in the meantime, and you have a good chunck of money for a down payment just about the time hunting land values hit bottom.
> 
> I will use B and B as an example(those guys are happy with their situation so I'm not questioning them). They have paid almost $60,000 over an 8 year period(300 acresx$25/acre=$7500/year). Thats alot of money if the land owner dies.


 
And if they owned the land, over that same 8 year period they would have paid probably $80,000 in property taxes. With that in mind, leasing doesn't sound so bad.


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## NoWake (Feb 7, 2006)

Looks like I will be looking for a different lease for next year. Evidently the $3,000 in labor / year and the $300 christmas presents each year for the 60 acres I've been hunting aren't enough anymore. 

I have an old retired neighbor who would sometimes bring in things for me to make/repair in my machine shop. I've never charged him anything. One day I asked him if he would be interested in leasing out his land for hunting and he said I could just hunt it and he wouldn't let anyone else back there since I was always helping him with his projects. I tried real hard to make it an official cash lease but he said he couldn't take any money from me. So every year at Christmas I made sure to get him a pretty nice present around $300. For a while things were going pretty well and there was only a few times he called me asking if I minded if 'so and so' went back hunting. Of course I didn't really have any say in the matter but I appreciated his consideration.

His project volume has gradually increased and now he is in my shop almost daily with something or to ask me my opinion on what he is working on. My pseudo lease cost just quadrupled, but hey, I have a place to hunt (almost exclusively) and I can make up the lost shop time in the evenings right? Besides he's an old neighbor. Things changed last spring, after 3 solid weekends of rebuilding his tractor mounted tiller, he asked me which turkey season I drew. When I told him the second one he said "oh good, I met a couple guys from in the restaraunt that need a place to turkey hunt and they have the first season, I told them they could hunt the first couple days for $200, it will work out good since you have the second hunt." He said he couldn't pass up the cash. 

The two day hunt turned into the first whole week and they ended up with two birds. This place never had many turkey on it to begin with and after that I never saw another turkey. Then this fall he let a few more guys go back and deer hunt on the days I wasn't planning on hunting. 

Not sure what I am going to do for next year. I am either going to ask him for exclusive rights in a cash lease, or just continue with 'permission' and find another place to lease. I have no problems with land owners recognizing the value of their property, but they also need to recognize the value of my time and my machinery.


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## goodworkstractors (Aug 7, 2007)

Rasputin said:


> And if they owned the land, over that same 8 year period they would have paid probably $80,000 in property taxes. With that in mind, leasing doesn't sound so bad.


There are of course trade-offs, but I'm sure much of that land is tillable (lease to farmers) and you're forgetting land in the long-term has averaged a 4-5% increase in value per year. If you have the extra money, land can be an excellent investment. You're building equity, have your own land to enjoy year round, and aren't just throwing your money down the drain with a lease. It may not be for everyone, but for myself, I plan on buying land sometime in the next five years to call my own. Any of the headaches and hassles are well worth having a chunk of land to call my own. 

As NorthJeff said, it's about priorities. We choose where to put our money. Bowling leagues, golf leagues, new cars, and on and on. Any determined individual can make something happen if they want it bad enough.


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## Red Arrow (May 9, 2009)

Personally I would rather own than lease, since I do neither, I voted for wouldn't pay a $. There is plenty of good public land that doesn't cost me anything to hunt. Sure it would be nice if I could improve the habitat I hunt, but if the habitat/hunting isn't good, then I can just move to where it is (scouting). 

One problem I do see with leasing is that most folks that are paying hard earned $ to hunt private property(mostly zone3, SLP) don't want to use their tags on does, they are hunting bucks, and in a sense contributing to overpopulation of these DMU's. 

Just an opinion, but I think many here would agree.


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## pilsbury38 (Jan 2, 2010)

I lease 60 acres for $1000 a year, but i get to do what i want year round. We have food plots, permament blinds and tree stands that we never have to move or take down, its almost as if we own the land. Now when you divide this out for the year it comes to $83.33 a month. If some one knows where i can buy 60 acres for that kind of money and pay no taxes with no one on it but me and my son please tell me where it is:lol: personally i think leaseing is the only way to go.


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## portagelaker (Mar 3, 2008)

For the money you guys are talking, I'd want to see evidence that the land owner pays the IRS tax on the earnings of leasing the land to the hunters. That's way too much money for him to be getting tax free. That BF farms in Jackson who is always trying to rip off everyone keeps emailing me. I threatened to turn them into the IRS, they stopped emailing. Must be cheating the government.


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

I picked $0...

Over the years I have been very lucky with the amount of stateland in the areas I've lived, along with the permission that has been acquired on private land from friends, family and just knocking on doors... 
As mentioned if I ever have to pay to hunt land that is not my own I will stop hunting...

I understand why people lease, nothing wrong with it. But IMO its kind of a shame that $$$ plays such a large part in MI hunting.. Just makes me wonder what hunting will be like for our kids..


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## hunterrep (Aug 10, 2005)

All good points and a great discussion. One point I have not seen is the fear of losing that lease at any given time. Knowing I will have a place to hunt year after year without the fear of losing it is worth A LOT to me and my kids.
Nothing against leasing, it is a great alternative if buying isn't an option. In my opinion, buying is way better in the long run if the income from the farm pays the taxes.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

> Whitetail1 said:
> 
> 
> > Those of us that have for years been hunting on family or friends property at no charge may be displaced because "THE MONEY" was too much to turn down.


If it ever got to the point where my friends or family had to lease because the money was "to hard to turn down" I would feel like a heal for not recognizing their hardship. I would also feel like I let the relationship deteriorate to the point that they didn't feel comfortable coming to me first to ask if I wanted to lease.
I think that a lot of guest hunters don't recognize the value of what "they" bring to the table for the property owner. There's a lot to be said for peace of mind, free labor, and any other sort of bartered services. I know of a farmer that has a verbal lease with 2 guys because they fill every antlerless tag they can obtain.
The big advantage to leasing, over public ground, is, as pilsbury mentioned, soul access. Spending 9 months out of the year enhancing habitat, scouting, maintaining stands, etc. only to be overrun by strangers or "other guests", is madening.
I both own (19 acres) and lease (11 acres) and I'm looking to lease another 40-100 acres. Depending on the price of the lease, will determine how many partners have to be in on the deal. The advantage of brokering the deal is setting the sublet price as well as choosing the partners.

Big T


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

Just some #s. I think its safe to say that an average quality lease that you could go in on with a buddies on for $1000 each would be worth about $200,000. 

You are going to pay $1700 a month+ with taxes and insurance for that same parcel. Also, in my own personal experience I've spent several times more for habitat improvements on MY OWN land, vs my leases. Even if your lease is 7 hrs away like mine, the extra you spend on your own land makes it a wash when things like travel, habitat improvements, and overall costs are considered.

So...my personal expenses comparing a hunting lease, or owning that same parcel, are $20,400 a year for owning close to home...$1000 a year for leasing 7 hrs away. Basically owning is 20xs more expensive. 

Now...let's say u hav a 30 year mortgage on that $200,000 property. What will u spend in interest over 30 years? $100,000? What was your cost in taxes and insurance? You will spend about $200,000 in 30 years in taxes and insurance for a total of $300,000 in costs. However, at a 5% increase per year your parcel will double in value every 14.5 years. So, basically in 30 years that 200K parcel is now worth 800k, with an increase of 600k and expenses of 300k for a net of $300k. Pretty good profit--right?!? No, take a look at this....

Let's say you instead lease and spend the $1500 a month extra to put into an average mutual fund. An average mutual fund has returned 12% annually since the 1920s. Then, instead of investing for 30 years, u decide to ony put in for 20 years, and then let it sit the remaining 10. Well, $1500 per month @ 12% for 20 years is $1.5 million. Then, you still earn that average 12% for the remaining 12 years that means at 26 years its worth 3 million, and at 30 roughly 5 million. So, same monthly payout as owning yourself, but only for 20 years instead of 30....so, 5 million vs 300km heck, let's even say that u had to have 2 other partners in on it cus u couldn't afford by ureself so u only had 1/3 to invest...that's still almost 1.7 million vs 100k owning yourself.

Hey, jus crunching some #s...but $$$$ or "investment" wise, what's really the best option? Of course there are many intangibles...overall family use, personal enjoyment, overall frequency of use...some may even end up living on their little slice of heaven! But, anyway u look at it...cost or investment potential, ownning your own land can often cost you 20xs more than leasing. 

Believe me, as a recently divorced father of 3 and 120 acres of land I had to sell-ive crunched the #s!
_Posted via Mobile Device_

Instead of keeping my 120 acres of hunting land, I feel I could have a lease in MN, WI, ILL, IN, OH, IA, and MI for the same expense. Now the problem is this thing called "time".


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## Whitetail1 (Oct 17, 2008)

QDMAMAN said:


> If it ever got to the point where my friends or family had to lease because the money was "to hard to turn down" I would feel like a heal for not recognizing their hardship. I would also feel like I let the relationship deteriorate to the point that they didn't feel comfortable coming to me first to ask if I wanted to lease.
> Big T


I'll rephrase....
If given a choice of having a friend or family member hunt and do all of the things to improve the quality of the property OR simply taking the money and forgoing the habitat management, Most landowners would go for the cash.
If the piece of property is inviting enough and in the right location, Not many family members or friends can compete with the amount of cash offered by someone (generally a group)with leasing in mind. 
Example;
OK Andy, I know you have been hunting here for 30+ years. I admire the tree's you've planted in our hedgerows, I love the fact you spend countless hours helping on the farm and ask for nothing more than a garden hose to clean your boots before you get in your truck. The gifts at Christmas are always wonderful. I'll never forget the time you sent flowers and a singing clown to my room when i went in the hospital for knee surgery. I've seen so many different birds and animals at our feeder since you began your habitat management program here. The fact you always offer us money to help when we are in need is always appreciated. BUT...The fact is, a man from Detroit came to us yesterday and offered us a LOT of money for a hunting lease. Bill and i just couldn't refuse the offer with our health and all. I told the man I would ask you first to see if you would be willing to match his offer. Can you afford $5,000.00 for this Andy? :SHOCKED:
Happens every year somewhere!


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## hunterrep (Aug 10, 2005)

NJ, your numbers seem right and if I was a realtor I would try to find a way to delete that post. Reminds me of trying to justify owning a boat.:lol:
Let me play the devils advocate here before everybody gets discouraged about buying property.

Your assuming that you will be able to find a lease for $1,000/year which is hard to do for anything decent and sizable.
Your assuming a lease, if you can find it, will stay at $1,000/ year for 20 years. Highly doubtful.
Your not factoring in that income from your property pays the taxes and insurance with a little left over for food plots. That alone is a $600,000 swing in numbers by your example. (BTW, I would never buy a piece of property that doesn't achieve this objective and should be a heavy part of anybodys decision)
I know you mentioned the intangibles can also be a factor but these intangibles are worth a whole lot of money to me personally.
You better hope people keep buying property for the sake of your consultation business.
This same debate could be made for owning a home vs. renting a home. In fact, with the way property taxes are in Michigan, upkeep, and falling values of homes, this would be a more effective argument over owning vs. leasing.
I'm going to go work on my farm now


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## brdhntr (Oct 1, 2003)

portagelaker said:


> For the money you guys are talking, I'd want to see evidence that the land owner pays the IRS tax on the earnings of leasing the land to the hunters. That's way too much money for him to be getting tax free. That BF farms in Jackson who is always trying to rip off everyone keeps emailing me. I threatened to turn them into the IRS, they stopped emailing. Must be cheating the government.


Landowner gets a 1099 every year.


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## brdhntr (Oct 1, 2003)

Red Arrow said:


> snip
> One problem I do see with leasing is that most folks that are paying hard earned $ to hunt private property(mostly zone3, SLP) don't want to use their tags on does, they are hunting bucks, and in a sense contributing to overpopulation of these DMU's.
> 
> Just an opinion, but I think many here would agree.



From personal experience, MOST lessee's are killing lots of does, and are often blamed by local land owners who don't lease for "wiping out our deer herd". The cost of the lease very seldom can account for the loss in crops in SE MI, so if the lessee doesn't kill does, the lessor finds someone who will.


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## brdhntr (Oct 1, 2003)

NoWake said:


> Looks like I will be looking for a different lease for next year. Evidently the $3,000 in labor / year and the $300 christmas presents each year for the 60 acres I've been hunting aren't enough anymore.
> 
> I have an old retired neighbor who would sometimes bring in things for me to make/repair in my machine shop. I've never charged him anything. One day I asked him if he would be interested in leasing out his land for hunting and he said I could just hunt it and he wouldn't let anyone else back there since I was always helping him with his projects. I tried real hard to make it an official cash lease but he said he couldn't take any money from me. So every year at Christmas I made sure to get him a pretty nice present around $300. For a while things were going pretty well and there was only a few times he called me asking if I minded if 'so and so' went back hunting. Of course I didn't really have any say in the matter but I appreciated his consideration.
> 
> ...


Usually it's the guy getting the free ride to hunt that doesn't realize what he has, this is the opposite, I hope he wakes up for both of your sakes.


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

hunterrep said:


> NJ, your numbers seem right and if I was a realtor I would try to find a way to delete that post. Reminds me of trying to justify owning a boat.:lol:
> Let me play the devils advocate here before everybody gets discouraged about buying property.
> 
> Your assuming that you will be able to find a lease for $1,000/year which is hard to do for anything decent and sizable.
> ...


Makes some sense HR I'm just trying to point out though its kind of ironic that the "little guy" syndrom is cried when guys are paying$$$$ to lease...when its in actuality the little guy whose only option for quality hunting often is to lease. 

Also, if I lost my lease for $1000 each for my lease partners and I, I think I could find one at least as good within a month. And yes...I truly hope hunters keep buying the land!! In reality, I bet hunter ownership of land is a very high % these days!!!

And don't think I don't hunt public land still, I will be hunting MI, PA, and possibly IA public land this year. I'm ever in search of "cheap quality"

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

> Whitetail1 said:
> 
> 
> > OK Andy, I know you have been hunting here for 30+ years. I admire the tree's you've planted in our hedgerows, I love the fact you spend countless hours helping on the farm and ask for nothing more than a garden hose to clean your boots before you get in your truck. The gifts at Christmas are always wonderful. I'll never forget the time you sent flowers and a singing clown to my room when i went in the hospital for knee surgery. I've seen so many different birds and animals at our feeder since you began your habitat management program here. The fact you always offer us money to help when we are in need is always appreciated. BUT...The fact is, a man from Detroit came to us yesterday and offered us a LOT of money for a hunting lease. Bill and i just couldn't refuse the offer with our health and all. I told the man I would ask you first to see if you would be willing to match his offer. Can you afford $5,000.00 for this Andy? :SHOCKED:
> > Happens every year somewhere!


Andy, You forgot to quote this part.



> I think that a lot of guest hunters don't recognize the value of what "they" bring to the table for the property owner. There's a lot to be said for peace of mind, free labor, and any other sort of bartered services. I know of a farmer that has a verbal lease with 2 guys because they fill every antlerless tag they can obtain.


Just wondering. Would you not visit these folks in the hospital if they didn't let you hunt?:evil:
I already know the answer.
I think that any one who reads your post can determine that for 30 years you HAVEN'T been hunting for free. Just compensating in a different fashion than $.
The clown thing is genius, I'm putting that one in my bag of tricks!:lol:


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

Whitetail1 said:


> I'll rephrase....
> OK Andy, I know you have been hunting here for 30+ years. I admire the tree's you've planted in our hedgerows, I love the fact you spend countless hours helping on the farm and ask for nothing more than a garden hose to clean your boots before you get in your truck. The gifts at Christmas are always wonderful. I'll never forget the time you sent flowers and a singing clown to my room when i went in the hospital for knee surgery. I've seen so many different birds and animals at our feeder since you began your habitat management program here. The fact you always offer us money to help when we are in need is always appreciated. BUT...The fact is, a man from Detroit came to us yesterday and offered us a LOT of money for a hunting lease. Bill and i just couldn't refuse the offer with our health and all. I told the man I would ask you first to see if you would be willing to match his offer. Can you afford $5,000.00 for this Andy? Because, the property is worth over 300K, prices keep going up, our fixed income is "fixed", and the clown didn't bring cash


Wait...wasn't that how the letter read?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## On Target (Jun 10, 2007)

This whole $$$ to hunt thing sucks. How many people who lease have any kind of guilt for displacing the people that have hunted certain lands for generations. I have free permission to hunt some nice private along with around 5 other people, leasing has crossed my mind briefly until my conscience gets the better of me. What kind of a right do I have to make these people lose there hunting land. I have a feeling that someone else will be doing it to me within the next year or two. I will always have my remote stateland areas to hunt and I will be able to look at myself in the mirror.


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## walleyerick (Sep 30, 2004)

We lease a little over 500 Acres south of Cadillac for about $4,000 per year (9 members). We have to tip-toe around that property. The landowner is very particular about where and how we can operate on his property. No tree cutting, no habitat improvement, his wife and their friends ride horses out there all the time and yes even during "primetime" on October evenings. We do this because the hunting is decent and we know he has had offers offering more than what we pay and could be replaced if we put up too much of a fuss.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

> On Target said:
> 
> 
> > This whole $$$ to hunt thing sucks. How many people who lease have any kind of guilt for displacing the people that have hunted certain lands for generations. I have free permission to hunt some nice private along with around 5 other people, leasing has crossed my mind briefly until my conscience gets the better of me. What kind of a right do I have to make these people lose there hunting land. I have a feeling that someone else will be doing it to me within the next year or two. I will always have my remote stateland areas to hunt and I will be able to look at myself in the mirror.


Where do you hunt?


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## goodworkstractors (Aug 7, 2007)

walleyerick said:


> We lease a little over 500 Acres south of Cadillac for about $4,000 per year (9 members). We have to tip-toe around that property. The landowner is very particular about where and how we can operate on his property. No tree cutting, no habitat improvement, his wife and their friends ride horses out there all the time and yes even during "primetime" on October evenings. We do this because the hunting is decent and we know he has had offers offering more than what we pay and could be replaced if we put up too much of a fuss.


While as far as price goes, that's a good deal. I would hate dealing with that other crap. I mean, if you're paying to hunt the land, the least they could do is be considerate during deer season. I understand about not modifying the property to an extent, but what's the point of leasing hunting land if people are all over the property all the time. I already experience that on public land.


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## NoWake (Feb 7, 2006)

On Target said:


> This whole $$$ to hunt thing sucks. How many people who lease have any kind of guilt for displacing the people that have hunted certain lands for generations. I have free permission to hunt some nice private along with around 5 other people, leasing has crossed my mind briefly until my conscience gets the better of me. What kind of a right do I have to make these people lose there hunting land. I have a feeling that someone else will be doing it to me within the next year or two. I will always have my remote stateland areas to hunt and I will be able to look at myself in the mirror.


Remember there is two sides to the coin. I wouldn't be able to live with myself using someone else's property all the time for free when they have so much money intvested in it and are paying taxes on it every year.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

> NoWake said:
> 
> 
> > Remember there is two sides to the coin. I wouldn't be able to live with myself using someone else's property all the time for free when they have so much money intvested in it and are paying taxes on it every year.


Nowake,
What's your neighbor's next fabrication going to cost him?


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## Whitetail1 (Oct 17, 2008)

NorthJeff said:


> Wait...wasn't that how the letter read?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 He had the money. Clowns are paid handsomely. Just look at our President!:lol:


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## MCMANN (Jan 13, 2010)

if we as hunters would have some respect towards other fellow hunter everyone wouldnt have to lease land
cant tell you how many times ive set goose decoys in a field in the dark and as light starts to show here comes some one and they set up downwind from me and cuts me off

or park and walk to my tree stand and be sitting there and here comes someone and they climb a tree 50 yrds from you and they had parked right next to your truck

this late duck season we hunted lk st clair we had guys set decoys 10 feet from our decoys no need for that i asked him what he was thinking his come back was ive hunted here for the last 4 yrs so i have a right to hunt here ITS CALLED HAVE SOME RESPECT FOR THE OTHER HUNTERS

if i head to a spot and see a truck parked there i find a new spot

SORRY FOR THE RANT

mike


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## Sam22 (Jan 22, 2003)

sullyxlh said:


> If I ever had to pay someone to hunt I'd take up fishing.


In ten years, you will be fishing on Nov 15.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

> November Sunrise said:
> 
> 
> > I've yet to find one person who doesn't have at least one spending habit that is completely wasteful.


Surely you're not suggesting that leasing, or even hunting, is a waste of money?:yikes: 
I told my wife how much I respect you. If she sees this it's no more leasing for me! 
How am I going to get away with the "I'm puttin meat on the table" shpeel while you're pontificating in public?:rant:


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

> MCMANN said:
> 
> 
> > if i head to a spot and see a truck parked there i find a new spot
> ...


 
What if it's John Eberhart's?:lol:


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

> Red Arrow said:
> 
> 
> > :yikes: *I WOULD RATHER OWN THAN LEASE*,:yikes:


What?


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## Michihunter (Jan 8, 2003)

QDMAMAN said:


> Surely you're not suggesting that leasing, or even hunting, is a waste of money?:yikes:
> I told my wife how much I respect you. If she sees this it's no more leasing for me!
> How am I going to get away with the "I'm puttin meat on the table" shpeel while you're pontificating in public?:rant:


Tony tony tony. Haven't you learned to shield your wife from all those nasty terrible places where fights break out over the simplest things? You know the types of places- Bars, night clubs, wild parties, M-S, etc


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

> Michihunter said:
> 
> 
> > Tony tony tony. Haven't you learned to shield your wife from all those nasty terrible places where fights break out over the simplest things? You know the types of places- Bars, night clubs, wild parties, M-S, etc


 
Shhhh....she's here now!:lol:


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## NoWake (Feb 7, 2006)

Michihunter said:


> That right there is an issue I deal with yearly. I get permission from some great people and try to extend my gratitude in ways I feel would help but even that seems inadequate to me most times. How do you express the proper amount of gratitude for the things given to you freely? Especially with people you only see a couple of times a year? It can be a tough situation a lot of times even if those feelings may not be warranted.


All you can do is express your gratitude to the best of your abilities, or weighted to how important it is to you, I guess. I have a hunch though, if those people decided to lease it out you would probably get first chance, and if you couldn't justify the cost you would be diisappointed but yet also understand. 

I learned a long time ago that friendships can be really strained over hunting property. To me it's not worth it, and that is why I chose to pass, on most of my 'permission' only opportunities.


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## Red Arrow (May 9, 2009)

QDMAMAN said:


> What?


Sorry gentleman, (NS, QDMAMAN, Brdhntr, you too). Didn't want to yell, but I was just trying to get my point across.


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## Whitetail1 (Oct 17, 2008)

QDMAMAN said:


> That's not something Andy has to worry about. :evil::lol:


SSSHHHHH.... If word got out that I bash the antlers off the big ones before I drag them out only to later have Mitch Rampola glue them back (REAL WIDE), I could be in danger of loosing my spot. 
Keep it under your hat.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

I lease and own and will continue to lease. I have no problem with my conscience. If I were not the one leasing one of the farms, someone else would be. I didn't force anybody out of any parcel of land, and neither did the farmer. If someone chooses not to lease, that is their perogative but because someone else doesn't see a dollar value on hunting land _I_ should feel bad? Sorry, but I'll never ever feel bad about my decision to lease, and in the same breath, I won't feel sorry for those that choose not to. 

As for the poll, I can't really vote. There are to many variables involved to vote on a random per acre dollar amount.


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## WALLEYE SEEKER (Nov 30, 2009)

I have leased land in manistee and leslie in the past here is somthing to think about

1.Manistee lease 240 acres for $1500 good deal right well maybe not since it needed alot of work food plots cost me $3000 bucks 

Grand total =$4500 bucs total

2.Leslie lease 100 acres $1800 corn and beans everywhere good deal yes no food plots necessary

So its not always about cost more about what it needs to be productive.

Ut oh wife over shoulder my leasing days could be over:lol::lol::lol:


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

After reading all of these posts I feel the need to comment.

Yes I am one who is in the $25 - $30 /acre range. Yes I am sure I could find a cheaper lease. But I have an excellent relationship with the owner. A good owner/lesse relationship is just as important as important as the amount you are willing to pay. I have so much freedom on the farm it is almost like my own. Why? Because of the trust I have gained by the owner. Because of this I feel safe from being out bid (and people have tried) and don't mind paying the money. Infact I got him to drop the price a $1000 last season. I told him times were tough for me and my group and might not be able to lease it if we can't get a discount for at least a year. I shot for $1500 less he countered with $1000 I agreed. This year he told me he will leave the price the same and won't raise it back up a $1000. I got it good and I know it. So does he.

As for leasing only to shoot big bucks. That is not the case with me. Yes I think my chances are better than others due to the location, but that was never the intention when we found the lease. We just don't like state land and at the time couldn't afford to buy our own.

responding on how people who lease don't shoot does. Well in 8 years we have killed 127 does and 24 bucks. Largest buck scored in the 130's 8 of them in the 100"- 110" . 
We like to kill does.

Now the part about coming and taking away the land from those who had free permission by offering money they can't turn down. I guess that does have some truth to it, but again it was the owners decision to lease. I have been turned down by land owners I was trying to lease from because they said they had friends and family already hunting it. In my current lease there was some friction between us and some of the locals who once had permission. But the guy I lease from bought the land from the guy who used to give those people permission to hunt. They some how figured they still would be given a free ride with a new owner. Nope. He offered them a lease deal.

Would I rather own than lease? Of course. But 8 years ago I was in no position to buy land, leasing was a better option. I hope to buy some of the land I lease within in the next 2 years, because by 2011's hunting season I will be more finacially ready to buy.(or at least that is the plan) Once it is my land and I am the one paying the full bill on it I will have more say in how things are done from a hunting perspective. As for now there are 6 of us that pay equally so the "rules" are made and agreed by everyone. 

In the end the owner will ask what ever he wants for HIS LAND. It is up to you the lesse to decide if that is a fair price for what you are getting. If not don't lease. If you find out the lease or the hunting is not up to your expectations, look for another. 
Here is a leasing tip, don't wait too long to find one, start looking now.


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## pilsbury38 (Jan 2, 2010)

Lugian said:


> Thats a great set-up big time. Have you thought how your hunting would change when that land changes owners? Its not a matter of if but when. From the sounds of it you might be paying double to replace that 60 acres and more than likely won't have that much control. Does that in any way change your mind about leasing?


 I found that peace of property because a friend owns some property next to it. The property i lease actually just went up for sale, BUT i got really LUCKY because my friend that lives next to it is buying it. So yes it had crossed my mind we are currently working out the details so i will be staying.


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## Jacob Huffman (Sep 13, 2004)

Gotta pay to play...


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

November Sunrise said:


> I both own and lease property, and Lord willing will continue to do both for many years to come.
> 
> A couple of tips for those of you who are pursuing a lease:
> 
> ...


All of this is very good advice. #4 is probably one of the toughest things to achieve. I have had to let a few guys go over the years and well lets say they don't always go quietly.

The guy I lease from told me in the begining "I like to keep this simple, you pay me in full before you hunt, you let me know who is hunting the property, let me know how many deer you kill and keep the place clean." I don't see that as too difficult. I was the one who made up a lease agreement and that was basically just so everyone knew who the "lease holder " was and to know that if it comes down to it I will be the one kicking you out if you want to play games.


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

Bigchev said:


> A bit off subject but how do you pay that meaning is it once a year. I was just thinking about trying to find some but not sure how it all works.


 This will all depend on the landowner. The way my group does it is like this

January (usually late Jan.) every one pays a min. of $200 (you can pay more)

July (usually mid july) everyone pays half of their balance or more.

September (mid Sept.) everyone pays off their balance.

I am allowed to turkey hunt in the spring but if we are not paid in full by Oct 1, no hunting until lease is fully paid. 
This way of paying is nice for us. Never really had any problems that couldn't be handled easily.


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## OSXer (Jul 12, 2005)

A couple of years ago I would have voted that I'd never pay straight cash, but gladly labor/gifts/friendship/etc.Now as a landowner, ownership really opens your eyes as to how much land costs. 

I'd gladly pay a decent price for a lease for land if I was given sole year round access to it, could hunt anything I wanted and put/leave up stands. Making habitat improvements would be a bonus. 

Right now I see paying the price to own still alright even though it's many times greater for smaller acreage than if I was to lease, but only given that I live on what I pay for. I get to view my tiny slice every day year round. I could never see owning a place that wasn't just around the corner at the very least.

That said, I still have family/friends over, though sometimes I suspect that they don't realize the true expense I pay for what I share with them for free. I do get friendship and help on house/property/habitat improvements if I ask, but in the money-(tax)-driven world we live in unfortunately non-monetary gifts only help so much to cover the true costs.


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

OSXer said:


> A couple of years ago I would have voted that I'd never pay straight cash, but gladly labor/gifts/friendship/etc.Now as a landowner, ownership really opens your eyes as to how much land costs.
> 
> I'd gladly pay a decent price for a lease for land if I was given sole year round access to it, could hunt anything I wanted and put/leave up stands. Making habitat improvements would be a bonus.
> 
> ...


Those are great points, and in a way it brings us back to one of the things that came up earlier in this thread regarding what makes more sense economically, owning or leasing. There are at least two weaknesses that are inherent in any attempt to compare the two. 

Firstly, the future is unknown. Who could have known that property values were going to escalate so radically from the early 90's through 2005 or so, or plummet so much since then? Here in Hillsdale County recreational parcels that had little if any farming value could be bought for $500/acre in the early to mid 90's. By the time we reached 2005 hunters were in some cases paying $4,000/acre for the same ground. Now that land won't sell at current asking prices in the $2,600-$2,800/acre range. The person who bought at $500/acre in 1993 is still thinking that recreation land is a great investment. The person who bought at $4,000/acre is wondering how many decades it might be before his land value even returns to the price he paid for it. Way too many variables in play to come up with a solid economic comparison. 

Which brings me to the second point, which is that there's a lot more to owning than just the economic facet. It goes a lot deeper than just the economic considerations. As I said earlier I own and lease, I don't see the two as mutually exclusive, and plan to continue doing both in the future, but there's no comparison between the two in terms of satisfaction. Leasing to me is a practical way to expand hunting opportunities for my family and friends, but at least for me it doesn't compare at all to the feeling of owning your own ground.


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

NoWake said:


> I learned a long time ago that friendships can be really strained over hunting property. To me it's not worth it, and that is why I chose to pass, on most of my 'permission' only opportunities.


Strained or fractured friendships is why I don't do partnerships, whether they be in business, hunting leases, or anything else. Over the years I've seen way to many friends and family members turn on each other and become enemies after their partnership efforts fell apart.


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## Lugian (Aug 19, 2007)

November Sunrise said:


> The best prospects to secure a lease with in southern MI are landowners who own substantial acreage. I'm friends with a few guys like that. They each own between 3,000-10,000 acres of land.
> 
> Their primary fundamental goal is to have leaseholders who won't create any hassles for them. The farmer doesn't want to mediate disputes, he doesn't want to hear any negative feedback from his neighbors, he doesn't want to deal with any of that stuff. In addition, they want people who will make their annual payment on time without excuses, and who will do their part to keep the deer numbers in check.
> If the leaseholder gets this fact, they will in most cases be granted the ability to do almost anything they desire - they'll be able to set up a camper, put in food plots, leave stands out year round, etc.
> ...


I must be very naive. Are there THAT MANY clowns out there who ruin it for the rest of us?


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## Lugian (Aug 19, 2007)

pilsbury38 said:


> I found that peace of property because a friend owns some property next to it. The property i lease actually just went up for sale, BUT i got really LUCKY because my friend that lives next to it is buying it. So yes it had crossed my mind we are currently working out the details so i will be staying.


 
Good deal for everybody involved. The two of you can have a sweet set up.


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

Lugian said:


> I must be very naive. Are there THAT MANY clowns out there who ruin it for the rest of us?


Probably not on a percentage basis, but on an overall cumulative basis, yes. 

Picture it this way. Joe Farmer lives outside a small town where most of the locals know him and his family. He owns 4 tracts of land totaling roughly 1,000 acres. Over the years he's had hunters get stuck driving across his fields, leave tree steps in harvestable timber, come to him to mediate disputes about who should get to sit where on opening day, etc. A few years previous he gave permission to a neighbor only to find out that the neighbor then brought along his brother and three buddies from work. Most of the guys who hunt on his place don't even take the time to give Joe a simple thank you gift at Christmas, and some of the guys who've hunted on his place for a long time exhibit a clearly discernible entitlement attitude.

Eventually Joe has had enough and decides to flip the switch and begins to lease out some of his farms. He leaves his best parcel set aside for him and his family. He now can contractually control exactly who hunts on his property, dictate acceptable conduct and how many deer need to get shot, and generate meaningful extra income in the process. After a year or two the word gets out that his farms are leased and the endless requests for hunting permission go away as well. If he leases to the right person(s) he'll also now have someone else who has a vested interest in the property and as a result gains another set of eyes to watch over the place. 

Put it all together, and it means for some farmers, especially those who have large land holdings, leasing is a clearly preferable and beneficial option for them.


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

Looking at the poll I see alot wouldn't pay a dime and the majority that would pay $ don't want to pay alot. 
Why is that?
The way I see it is I spend an average of 35 days a year hunting and probably at least 70 days a year scouting and hanging stands. Add about 2 or 3 days of turkey hunting and about 10 days cutting wood for our hunting shack and just work around the place that is about 118 days I spend on the property. It cost me just under $1200 a year to lease.(thats my share of the lease) So using the property 118 days a year and a cost of $1200 a year to use the property equals out to be $10.17 a day. Even if you only factor in the hunting days (35) it costs $34.29 a day to hunt.
Since I have year round access you could say it costs me $3.29 a day to lease the property.


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## Justin (Feb 21, 2005)

I,m sure glad I don't live down in southern Mich. Seems everybody has lousy neighbors.


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

Justin said:


> I,m sure glad I don't live down in southern Mich. Seems everybody has lousy neighbors.


Why is that?
My buddy who owns land in the UP told me when you put up no trespassing signs the locals will purposly hunt your land. He said you give one of the locals permission to hunt when you are not there if they keep and eye on the place they will guard it like it is their own


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## standsetter (Dec 2, 2007)

bucksnbows said:


> The way I see it is I spend an average of 35 days a year hunting and probably at least 70 days a year scouting and hanging stands. Add about 2 or 3 days of turkey hunting and about 10 days cutting wood for our hunting shack and just work around the place that is about 118 days I spend on the property.


What in the world could you possibly learn in 70 days of scouting "almost 300 acres" that you couldn't learn in 10 or less? I don't mean this to be disrespectful towards you or your abilities, but I am having a hard time with that one.


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## Apple Knocker (Feb 7, 2009)

Interesting discussion. I was a "state-lander" for 35 years or so. Bought our retirement property in the mid-90's, gradually built on it, and moved here full time in 2002. Feel fortunate to be able to live on what I consider to be an incredible place. We have an apple orchard (USDA tells me it is the biggest in Menominee Co.) that backs up to a heavily wooded river bottom that snakes through miles and miles of farm country and woodlots. Much of the value that I assign to living here does not relate to deer hunting, it is the enjoyment and experience that comes on a daily basis. I am not nearly as avid of a hunter as many on M-S, don't bow hunt, but we (wife and I) shoot several deer a year, get some nice, but not real trophy bucks, and enjoy eating them. A better hunter could no doubt do better, we see some dandies every year, but usually not during the rifle season. I have offers almost every year from folks wanting to hunt here, particularly bow hunters. I did allow a couple friends access years ago, but I believe that my best luck comes from staying out of the woods and river areas until I have a gun in my hands. And, it can be awkward to tell someone "No" after they have been there. I may invite someone out on a case-by-case basis, but not that much. Expense and value are often not the same thing, each case is unique. It costs me in money and work to live here. The per-hour return on an orchard sure doesn't make sense. But put us on the back deck with a couple cold ones, watching the sun going down over the trees and seeing the deer come out, priceless!! Always enjoy a good read on M-S, Thanks.


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

standsetter said:


> What in the world could you possibly learn in 70 days of scouting "almost 300 acres" that you couldn't learn in 10 or less? I don't mean this to be disrespectful towards you or your abilities, but I am having a hard time with that one.


70 days of scouting and* hanging stands*. This includes glassing fields, looking for specific buck beds, in season scouting to determine how food and hunting pressure are changing deer movements from either previous season or from earlier in the current season. Also looking for rutting activity, got to hunt when the sign is hot. Many days of stand preperation. This is hard work at times. What keeps me constantly having to scout is the pressure from the other hunters. More of my scouting is learning how their actions change deer movements.

Scout more than you hunt.

If I were to start doing habitat work to control the lines of movement on the property and established stands that all hunters shared with an understanding of when and how these stands got hunted I would not need to scout as much. But for now everyone is free to hunt where they want as long as they don't intrude on another hunter. So for now I need to continue to pay attention to how their actions change the deer movement. I don't agree with the way most of my hunting partners go about hunting their locations (bad access and exit routes, over hunt, smoking on stand, etc.) so I just have to adapt to the hunting pressure just like the deer do.

I learn something new every year during my post season scouting. This is the time I enter into areas that I avoid during the season. I may not learn anything about how or where the deer are but I learn about how and where a particular deer is utalizing the property. Last year I located and area where a large buck was bedding and staging. I hunted this location this past season and saw 3 different bucks that were at least 3.5 using this one little section the size of maybe 2 acres. I have learned from hunting there that I need at least 2 more stands set up in that small area for different wind directions. So as an example my next scouting trip will involve finding the best way to access and exit that little 2 acre section depending on wind direction and time of day I plan to hunt that stand. This might involve some work to clear a path, build a screen, block off a trail, clear small shooting lane,etc. This work may take me several days. The days add up quick.


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## Hulk (Dec 18, 2009)

standsetter said:


> What in the world could you possibly learn in 70 days of scouting "almost 300 acres" that you couldn't learn in 10 or less? I don't mean this to be disrespectful towards you or your abilities, but I am having a hard time with that one.


 My thoughts too


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## standsetter (Dec 2, 2007)

bucksnbows said:


> 70 days of scouting and* hanging stands*. This includes glassing fields, looking for specific buck beds, in season scouting to determine how food and hunting pressure are changing deer movements from either previous season or from earlier in the current season. Also looking for rutting activity, got to hunt when the sign is hot. Many days of stand preperation. This is hard work at times. What keeps me constantly having to scout is the pressure from the other hunters. More of my scouting is learning how their actions change deer movements.
> 
> Scout more than you hunt.
> 
> ...


 That's a good answer. It shows me that you aren't wandering around blind. Not that I believed you were, but I had to wonder.

As much as I try to not judge others based on my understanding of things, it is impossible not to.

I think hunters in general, for many different reasons, credit deer with far more "intelligence" than deserved. All deer, relatively speaking, on all properties react to the same conditions, in the same way that other deer will. Age, pressure, seasonal etc. absolutely play a large role in deer movements, granted. However there is not a single factor that can't be anticipated and accounted for prior to it occurring, very few require walking the property to understand. Hot sign, to the extent any behavior is "predictable", is as predictable as any other. You saidLast year I located and area where a large buck was bedding and staging. I hunted this location this past season and saw 3 different bucks that were at least 3.5 using this one little section the size of maybe 2 acres. IMO, those places are THE most predictable, not every property is large enough or strategically located to include those, hence all the habitat manipulation being used by an increasing number of landowners. But, if those conditions exist, regardless of how they came to be, they should never be a surprise to the knowledgeable hunter.

Once a particular property is "scouted", hunting proven, predictable patterns will provide a higher percentage for success than any amount of hot sign chasing will ever provide. All the "I have to figure out what the deer are doing" type scouting, in many cases becomes counter-productive. 

Fisherman, understand and accept patterns far better than hunters. Hunters mostly need to "see it to believe it". Deer do not do anything without a reason for doing so. Of course there are no absolutes in hunting and this whole response is an over-simplification of a complicated topic, but basically...Deer react, Man reasons.

I realize this is way off topic but, it peaks my interest and I felt the need to comment on it. I apologize for getting off topic, and hope that you dont consider my comments as an attack on you personally.


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

standsetter said:


> That's a good answer. It shows me that you aren't wandering around blind. Not that I believed you were, but I had to wonder.
> 
> As much as I try to not judge others based on my understanding of things, it is impossible not to.
> 
> ...


I have no problems ever when it comes to learning more insight into the world of deer hunting, so your comments are welcomed. Maybe I should rephrase that most of what I call scouting may just be a casual walk through the property during the spring and early summer. Most of my days prior to hunting are spent hanging and moving stands. I wish the hunting would stay more predictable. But with neighboring movements and my guys movements it doesn't always workout that way.


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