# The gun .308



## SmithDerek16 (Jan 19, 2010)

Morning,

I wanted to run something by a few more eyes just perhaps to get another perspective. I want to purchase and put together a firearm that my kids will no of as "dads gun"....that probably sounds stupid to most - but i think some know where I am coming from...

For me - i grew up around alot of weapons, all the time, shotguns, rimfires, Bpowder, rifles...didn't matter my dad or his dad had it, whatever i needed or wanted to shoot.

For my dad it was his Marlin 30-30, originally his dads gun, and his dads dads gun... , I've never fired it...held it hundreds of times but never chambered a round... It's like my fathers right hand though - johnny crackshot open sight, it has killed many many whitetails....

For my grandfather - its his Rem 7mm mag.....amazing rifle- it two has taken alot of deer down, recently he shot a corsican ram with it in TN, I've always liked that weapon

enough about the memory lane trip

I currently have a Bpowder, a H&R USH in 12g, H&R UVR in .223 and a mossy 920 (skeet), couple handguns...But I want the rifle - I want a .308- I think I've narrowed it down to a certain weapon, it defintly has the looks which is a huge plus for me...also below is the scope...

Funny thing is I can't find SQUAT on these items in the sense of reviews, information or whatever...Of course I know Nikon is a good glass maker and I know Savage makes a great firearm....but these specifically...I cannot determine how they will pair up....Furthermore, I cant determine whether this set up will last my lifetime and hopefully that of my first son (future, no kids yet)

Open for suggestions, comments and ridicule

Savage 11BTH .308
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_62/products_id/52924

Nikon Monarch 6-24x50
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/99_353/products_id/47642


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

Do you honestly believe you will keep a firearm and use it that long? Most hunters I know change rifles every 5 to 10 years and no kid I know wants to use a hand-me-down. Maybe when they turn 50 using dad's old rifle may sound like a better idea, but not before. That being said, do you really think you need a scope that big? A 2.5 x 8 or smaller should be just fine. Just tossing some ideas around.


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## Maxx1 (Jan 25, 2011)

brookie1 said:


> Do you honestly believe you will keep a firearm and use it that long? Most hunters I know change rifles every 5 to 10 years and no kid I know wants to use a hand-me-down. Maybe when they turn 50 using dad's old rifle may sound like a better idea, but not before. That being said, do you really think you need a scope that big? A 2.5 x 8 or smaller should be just fine. Just tossing some ideas around.


Not totally true.
Only a spoiled brat wants a NEW gun.
Most I know want one that is a KNOWN deer killer.
I use a model 600 that was not new to me. I will not trade it for another gun.


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## acufly (Sep 1, 2002)

My father recently gave me his Winchester model 1200 12 ga. and I'm still proud to have it.


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## junkman (Jan 14, 2010)

5 to 10 years thats not really true I have been using the same rifle for about fifteen years now and don't plan on changing and most guy's I know have had there deer rifles just as long or longer


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

My point was not to assume your kid will like what you like. I have one of my dad's shotguns too but only because I like it. If someone is sentimental, great, but I don't see the point of putting away a gun that will probably never be used just because it belonged to a family member. Better that someone gets some use out of it.

My dad has gone through 3 different remington's, 2 savages, a winchester, and a ruger, not to mention the different shotguns. I would have to buy a bigger safe if I tried to keep everything. I never know what my buddy is going to show up with each year at camp. Me personally I have gone through 5 different rifles in the last 25 years.

Anyway, back the original question. Doesn't anyone else think a 24 power scope is overkill? I have binoculars that aren't that powerful.


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

First, I'd get a .270 

Seriously though, if this is to be a hunting rifle, I don't know if I'd go with one with a thumbhole stock. Nothing wrong with the Savages. A good shooting rifle at a decent price. If that's what you're set on, then go for it. 
but I'd also take a look at the Winchester M70 Featherweight or Remington M700 in a CDL. Both rifles have probably more history and nostalgia than any other makes. 

Second is your scope. You don't need a 24x on a big game rifle. I'd stay with a max power of around 9 or 10. If you're looking at lifetime service, look at some Leupolds. Their warranty and support are second to none.


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## SmithDerek16 (Jan 19, 2010)

brookie1 said:


> Do you honestly believe you will keep a firearm and use it that long? Most hunters I know change rifles every 5 to 10 years and no kid I know wants to use a hand-me-down. Maybe when they turn 50 using dad's old rifle may sound like a better idea, but not before. That being said, do you really think you need a scope that big? A 2.5 x 8 or smaller should be just fine. Just tossing some ideas around.


 
I have to say this comment kinda caught me off guard...I have my 10/22 that I was given at age 10 - I still use it....and always will, I've done some modification to it but it will always remain mine...I don't sell firearms, we must know completly different kids, most of my buddies adore their fathers weapons just the same as I...I take alot of value and pride into his things, his Marlin isn't a pair of ratty tennis shoes as you're suggesting.

No I don't think I need a scope that big, but the option is there...I have a 2-7 prostaff on my USH and a 4-12 prostaff on my UVR both of which I have set on 5- but, what i like about my 4-12 is the zoom ability to get in closer to see things a bit better.... having the option to get in close visually to see the surroundings of a target is a prominent feature, will i need to be at 24 power to take a shot? of course not


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## SmithDerek16 (Jan 19, 2010)

M1Garand said:


> First, I'd get a .270
> 
> Seriously though, if this is to be a hunting rifle, I don't know if I'd go with one with a thumbhole stock. Nothing wrong with the Savages. A good shooting rifle at a decent price. If that's what you're set on, then go for it.
> but I'd also take a look at the Winchester M70 Featherweight or Remington M700 in a CDL. Both rifles have probably more history and nostalgia than any other makes.
> ...


Funny you should mention 270, as was my biggest deciding road block was caliber and I had narrowed it down to the two, 270/308 ..and I tell you I'm nearly still on the fence...

I made mention of the variable power on my first repost to this thread, let me know what you think...

See heres the thing with the T-Hole stock, my dad told me a long time ago that T-Hole stocks are just like Fish - you either Love them or Hate them...now he's a Lefty so I know the lack of availability led him to hate them haha..I bought my H&R Slugger with the laminante wood and fell in love, you could probably attest, it feels nice that i have that grip, the pull, nearly like an ar-15 pistol grip...i can suck it into my shoulder very comfortably...

I liked it so much I bought another H&R on the T-hole frame called an ultra varmint rifle in .223


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

I've can't say I have very much exp with the thumbholes but if it feels good to you then I say go for it. You're the one who is going to be hunting with it. 

The 270 is one of my favorite rounds and I've had a lot of good success with it. IMO, it's one of the quintessential deer cartridges. Most of us in my family use them, one a 308. I like the 308, but more as a military round vs a sporting round. 

On my BG rifles I have anything from a 2-7 to a 3.5-10 scope. My highest power is on a varmint rifle, a 4-14x. I've actually been considering just going with a fixed 6x on some of the BG rifles as the only time I crank it up is at the range, otherwise I have it set on either 4 or 6 when I'm hunting. I actually was surprised that rifle weighs under 7 lbs. Skipping a 24x with a 50mm obj. will keep it a little lighter and probably the whole setup under 8 lbs.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Nothing wrong with the Savages. That said, I look at them as tools to be used, abused etc. If I were to buy a "legacy" rifle that I planned to hunt with, I'd look at a few others. Nothing too fancy but I'd look at Cooper or Sako, or for a few dollars less, a Rem 700 CDL, Winchester Featherweight or maybe a Super Grade, a Ruger 77 etc. These are all rifles that will stand the test of time and do it with a touch of class. That savage is pretty but it will never match the lines or the feel of some of the others. 

That scope is a huge waste of money for what you plan to use it for. 6-24x50 on a deer rifle? Only if you want a bunch of unusable optic power and a bunch of ungainly weight bolted to what would have been a nicely balanced rifle. That scope on a deer rifle is good for one thing....braggin' to guys on the benches next to you at the range. I see em every year, and rarely can they shoot worth a hill of beans despite the high powered glass they have. If you were building a paper puncher, a long range varmint gun, or a very specific long range big game gun and even then, it's a bit much for field use. Obviously by your caliber choice, you are not buying a rifle for any of the above, so you should really rethink your choice in glass. A 4.5-14x40mm is about as much glass as an all purpose big game rifle needs. And if this is truly a legacy rifle, than Monarch or Leupold VX3 stature, or Zeiss Conquest should be the least you invest in optics. No bargain versions of the good brands for this type of rifle will suffice. 

At the end of the day, a "legacy" rifle can be anything you want it to be. Doesn't need to be fancy, doesn't need to be expensive. Personaly, any and every gun I own would be worthy of handing down etc.....meaning just about any gun is worthy.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

I would say get whatever YOU want. Hopefully that old 30-30 will reach him eventually. A .308 would be a great choice.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

swampbuck said:


> Hopefully that old 30-30 will reach him eventually.



Kind of what I was thinking....sounds like there are already a couple fine rifles waiting in the wings for the job described. However, I would never talk anybody of of buying a new rifle if they felt the need!


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you like thumbhole stocks, laminate stocks and the looks of that Savage, then go for it. Caliber is also largely a matter of personal taste. I get a kick out of the endless arguments that go on over what is the "perfect" deer caliber. .308 would not be my first or even my second choice but it's a perfectly good deer caliber and if that's the caliber you want then go for it.

I will agree that the scope is unsuited for that rifle, for deer hunting. I like high magnification scopes, due primarily to crappy eyesight and I like 4.5 x 14 for my deer rifles. Leupold, Burris, Weaver, Nikon all make good scopes in the $400 price point, which is about what I would be spending on a scope for that rifle.

As far as the legacy aspect, I don't think the gun matters much at all, it's the relationship that you have with who you get it from. I own around 40 different rifles and shotguns, including a Kimber and a Sako. The rifle that means more to me then just about any of them was the battered old P-17 Enfield 30-06 that my Dad got as a teenager, through the Civilian Marksmanship program and which he used hand tools to cut down the stock and sporterize and put a marbles site on. My Dad was not a hunter but when I was 16 and indicated that I'd like to try deer hunting he pulled this old rifle out of the closet and took me to the range and we spent several afternoons learning how to shoot it and sight it in. Steel butt plate and it weighed about 10 lbs and the only hunting ammo that he had was a box of 220 Gr. winchester silver tips that someone had given him. To my 16 year old shoulder, that thing kicked like a mule. Even though he didn't hunt, he took time out of his busy schedule a number of times that fall to go out in the woods with me, to take me hunting. I hunted with that old rifle for that first year but never got a chance to actually shoot a deer with it. My next birthday he surprised me with a nice little model 94 30-30, that seemed like a dream compared to that old Enfield. The P-17 went back in his closet for the next 32 years. He passed away just over a year ago and one of the personal items that he left me was that old Enfield. It now sits in a hallowed place in my gun rack and I can say for certain that it's one rifle that I will never sell. So as I said, the legacy involved has little to do with the rifle and a lot to do with the memories that it evokes. I hope that whatever rifle that you choose, that you take your kids and go make some memories with it and them. If you do, it will become a legacy that will be priceless.


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## SmithDerek16 (Jan 19, 2010)

I certainly appreciate the responses gents. I suppose i should add a purpose to what i want to do with the weapon. I defifnitly want to be ableb to use the rifle for some long range shooting..both at paper and also at bigger game....this isnt really a deer rifle, i l ive in olivet, south of lansing....no-go down here

Although if given the opp i certainly would head up north to do some whitetail hunting...but i chose the caliber to also hunt some animals larger than deer... 

_OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors_e


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## Maxx1 (Jan 25, 2011)

I will say this from a realistic stand point.
When you get low on ammo and are in the sticks, odds are you will find .308 before you will find .270.


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## SmithDerek16 (Jan 19, 2010)

You know i've heard that same argument from many about calibers.....for some that may apply, but to be quite honest....

It isnt very realistic for me to end up 6 miles from the nearest town in the middle of the rockies....i'm not fred eichler....i hear what you are saying, and some people have to ask themselves that question....but i highly doubt that will ever be the case for me.


_OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors_


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## Maxx1 (Jan 25, 2011)

I reload. I use a Dillon Precision.

The point I am getting at is why buy a firearm that *IF* times get tough that you are going to have problems finding ammo for?

I don't need a .270 or any so called non standard round to take what I am after.

Edit: Go for it! That means more ammo for me!


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## RyanV (Oct 7, 2009)

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=217954876

or do a search for ar-10

Ryan


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

I agree; i support the concept of owning a rifle that you intend to keep. Sure we all have guns that might lack that emotional bond; but im sure most of us have at least 1 that we don't ever want to swap out...unless it is to pass down to a family member. I too have my first new gun i was given at 12, Mossy 500...and my first gun i saved up to buy at 14; my 10/22 .22lr.

As for the rifle you have picked out. Though it is a great rifle you do realize it is more of a target combination. Thumbhole laminated stocks can be heavy and awkward hunting with gloves, etc. If you intend to hunt i would go with a standard stock. Same goes for your scope. A 50mm is gonna sit pretty high. US Snipers have used 10x 40mm scopes shooting 800m accurately. That said a 12 to 14 power is usually enough for the average hunter. I have a 6-25x42mm on my .308 target gun and a 2.5-14x40 on my .308 hunting rifle.

Could prob scroll back through a million debates over the .270 and .308. 98% of the time a hunter could use either with the same results. I went with .308 as it has been around a long time with a lot of accurate load knowledge and guys using it for me to share knowledge.

As for Savage rifles; everything ive found they newer models are great and extremely accurate. In the end I opted for a R700 for reasons beyond this thread.

Good luck! 
Bob


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

M1Garand said:


> Swamp, correct me if I'm wrong but seems I saw somewhere they test fire the guns and ones that show better than average groups are stamped MOA, or is there a little more attention to detail in their manufacture?


I think you are correct. I don't think they "tune" them any different, just offer the guarantee. But I think the price is about $100 more. I could be worng but I remember looking at a couple locally and the MOA's were more money....wether thats what Weatherby intended or not, I'm not sure. Could have been a dealer thing.

I know they offer versions in the $800 price range that are "tuned" I think they also offer guarantees.
I can't get on their site at the moment.

Oh, I think the standard Vanguard has a 1.5" guarantee.


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## SmithDerek16 (Jan 19, 2010)

Certainly seems that they are worth a look at then eh? Its crazy to think you know what you want but yet there's so many options out there that it makes you double and triple think...

When I was narrowing down my findings I was stuck on 3 rifles...

The aforementioned Savage 11BTH
The aforementioned Weatherby Vanguard
And a Browining XBLT (around same price as the Savage)

All calibered in 308...they all seem like nice Rifles, the Savage just has the visual appeal over the other 2...in MY opinion...i havent heard squat on the Browning...nor have I really looked much at all


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

I think the satin finished Walnut Browning X-Bolt is a beautiful rifle. The gun feels great in your hands and while the styling might be a little edgy to some I think it blends the traditional lines and new styling quit nicely. And, I like the fact that the rifle is lightweight for a full size bolt gun. That gun will only weigh about 6.5#'s in the .308. Mount a Nikon Monarch 3-12x42mm in nice rings and it would be a sweet looking and sweet shooting set up! However, I have yet to see an X-Bolt in the $600 range. Most seem to be pushing $750 to $800. Browning still offers the A-Bolt and cabelas sells them for $599. I owned an A-Bolt and I liked it, very nice rifle. I like the X-Bolt better however. 


I would love to have a stainless/synthetic X-Bolt in .325WSM with a 3-9x40mm Zeiss Conquest mounted on top.


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## inland44 (Dec 1, 2008)

I personally like my Savage, mostly because they had a wide selection of "lefties" to choose from. Which brings up a point. What if your child is left eye dominant?? I grew up on Right handed bolt guns and got used to them. I bought my first lefty with my own money. If you go with the thumb hole stock it would be useless to a lefty shooter. Thats not a reason not to buy it but something to think about. (read more)

Another qestion is? if you really like your H&R USH why not make that your "dads gun" that gets passed down? Im sure thats what your kids will see you useing most of the time. 

My dads gun is a Winchester 94(mfg 1947) that will one day be mine. Will I use it more than any of the guns I have now?? probably not but I will now and then. 

The gun that I own that will get passed down will by my custom .300WSM built on a Remington 700 SA lefty action. I put alot of money and time into making a pretty damned accurate and reliable rifle and it has the most sentimental value of all of my rifles. Lately I have been shooting and hunting with my Savage .308 mostly becuase its new to me and its easier on the pocket book (and sholder) to shoot. My son/daughter will probably get them both but the Remington will be a special gift.

All in all I dont think it makes a diffrence what gun it is. "Dads gun" is going to be the one that is most assocated with you on opening day. The one in the pictures of the "one big buck dad shot at the last second on the last day, way back when." Yes, as others have said there is a level of style and elegance that goes with that "old rifle of dads". An uncle of mine left a Belgium made Browning BAR to my brother, it hangs in his den and to my knowelge hes never shot it. Im sure if I asked him however he would say that is his most prized gun. So would a thumb hole Savage hanging on your sons wall hold as much value? If he assocated it with you, I would say yes...


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

Friend just picked up a Remy R25, with a cheapo scope he is shooting under 1" at 100m with 150g Federal sp ammo from walmart. If you do like the AR feel this would be right up your alley; though they are a bit heavier.

I have a Armalight AR10 in .308; virtually the same rifle. Armalight lists the rifle @ 1.5 to 2 moa; im shooting at about 1moa with it at 200m. I like the rifle for hunting situations out to 300m as it grants a quick follow up shot. However I do shoot a bolt action R700 in .308 that is my go to gun.

Either platform can serve you well. USA army uses a semi auto similiar to the AR10 for its snipers while the others use the bolt guns.

No so sure i would keep my AR10 to pass down to my son, though my bolt gun I can see myself doing so.


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## Newcub (May 26, 2010)

SmithDerek16 said:


> Funny you should mention, I pulled that Vanguard up last night, It comes in a slew of calibers to include 270 and 308. 600 for the rifle, not a bad looking firearm......
> 
> I have yet to hold one in my hands - I know its a Weatherby, but just because it wears the name, it doesn't nessesarily mean its quality....so I would like to feel one in person... How do you like yours?


Vanguards are made in Japan.


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## Newcub (May 26, 2010)

SmithDerek16 said:


> You know i've heard that same argument from many about calibers.....for some that may apply, but to be quite honest....
> 
> It isnt very realistic for me to end up 6 miles from the nearest town in the middle of the rockies....i'm not fred eichler....i hear what you are saying, and some people have to ask themselves that question....but i highly doubt that will ever be the case for me.
> 
> ...


Maybe not the Rockies but in the U.P.. There is many of places up there that you are in b.f.e.


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## SmithDerek16 (Jan 19, 2010)

The more and more I take a look at this X Bolt the more I am driven to shoulder the weapon before I make a final decision. i do agree with some that a browning may hold value significantly better than a savage...I hate these moments  now hopefully bobs carrys both weapons.

any word on the XBolt that hasn't already been shared?


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## Putman Lake Campground (Oct 4, 2010)

SmithDerek16 said:


> Funny you should mention, I pulled that Vanguard up last night, It comes in a slew of calibers to include 270 and 308. 600 for the rifle, not a bad looking firearm......
> 
> I have yet to hold one in my hands - I know its a Weatherby, but just because it wears the name, it doesn't nessesarily mean its quality....so I would like to feel one in person... How do you like yours?



The weatherby is a fine rifle, I'd take it over a Ruger any day or a remington 700, and a few other rifles. But when faced with a weatherby or savage weather warrior. I took the weather warrior and have never looked back or regretted it in anyway.

I"m pro Savage when it comes to bolt actions. More gun for the money. I never factor in resale value since I don't sell my weapons. But even though.. The rifles I bought new, years later are still worth what I originally paid, regardless of manufacturer. Yes Brownings, Howa's, Weatherby's sell for more used. but you also pay proportionately more up front too. 

ON the other hand.. my browning semi, auto .308.. I paid less used than any other used rifle proportionate to what it is.... ($150.00 with cheap scope).

I shoot Savages, Rugers, Browning, Weatherby, German made, Remingtons... (trying to remember what else) Savage bolt out shoots them all, and have the same relative re-sale value. My browning (even though it has been my primary rifle (30-06 BLR, lever action and .308 semi Auto(back up rifle)) is also my 4/5th least accurate (weatherby being the 3rd least accurate and that is the MOA version). (Worst accurate is an old german made 8mm mauser, and a Ruger 223). In my house Remington and Savage rule the roost for off the shelf accuracy. (Remington pump actions )
Why Pump? Count the number of hand arm movements to get that second round off should it ever be needed? (1 back and 2 forward). Count the Bolt action (1 up, 2. back 3. forward, 4 down)? Lever is the same as the pump. But Pump is the same action as our shotguns therefore an easier habit to adapt too, and flawless reliability.


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

Why pump or lever...semi auto, 1 motion (trigger pull) = bang! ahahah

Hell i love em all


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

Browning A-Bolt is a nice gun. The X-Bolt is even nicer.


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## SmithDerek16 (Jan 19, 2010)

Found some detail on that X Bolt. I'm headed on a window shop trip this saturday to shoulder one...that is...if gas goes down....3.55 today :rant:

Youtube:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Yr5YCpfM8E"]YouTube - Browning X-Bolt Bolt Action Rifle.[/ame]

Browning direct:
http://www.browning.com/products/ca...armint-big-game-hunting-rifle-firearms#center

It's offered in 16 calibers...

Everything I have read is making this rifle more and more appealing


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## Newcub (May 26, 2010)

Another one made in Japan.


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## SmithDerek16 (Jan 19, 2010)

Newcub said:


> Another one made in Japan.


 
As is the A-bolt II....perhaps instead of posting what is aimed at being a derragatory comment- you'd find many component of the rifle come for the US - to include the walnut stock... Most everything from MOST firearm companies is made in a foreign country


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## Putman Lake Campground (Oct 4, 2010)

Rugergundog said:


> Why pump or lever...semi auto, 1 motion (trigger pull) = bang! ahahah
> 
> Hell i love em all


Semi's lead to more of a chance of an accident, and less apt to truly aim is the natural human tendency.

I myself don't normally allow my children to shoot a semi. OH.. and hotter loads in semi's aren't always safe. Hornady LIght mag for example says no semi's and no to most levers. Breeches do explode.. I've seen the aftermath.


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## Putman Lake Campground (Oct 4, 2010)

Newcub said:


> Another one made in Japan.


what is fully made in the US? and of that what is affordable?

What can we do to change that? 

I know this post belongs someplace else, but had to respond....

my apologies....


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## Putman Lake Campground (Oct 4, 2010)

SmithDerek16 said:


> Found some detail on that X Bolt. I


http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models/ (Weather Warrior Series 16 FHSAK, in case the link doesn't work 100%)

Check this sweet thing out.. I have this same model in the .243. It's a tack driver, good fit for a variety of sizes of people and that brake is awesome to use for plinking. (I don't use it in the woods, it can toss dirt back in your face, etc.) 

I didn't pay near the listed price even thought I bought it new. I topped mine with a silver Simmons Aetec scope 3 - 10 (or 12) it's very comparable to my leupold vari X III


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## SmithDerek16 (Jan 19, 2010)

So I headed up to Bobs Gun & Tackle last night started handeling the Browning X Bolt and a couple other rifles up there...I must say the Browning just felt sooo right. It shoulders like a dream, the weight is very balanced, the checkering is superb...It feels right in your hands..

It handled very differently from the Savage. I like how the savage looks dont get me wrong - It just doesn't feel right in my hands..

They didn't have any weatherby vanguards, but the Browning...wow


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

SmithDerek16 said:


> I must say the Browning just felt sooo right. It shoulders like a dream, the weight is very balanced, the checkering is superb...It feels right in your hands..
> 
> It handled very differently from the Savage. I like how the savage looks dont get me wrong - It just doesn't feel right in my hands..


Comparing the feel and balance of the Browning X Bolt to the Savage is like comparing a Camaro SS to a Chevy Aveo. They both accomplish the same task, but one is far more fun to drive!


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

SmithDerek16 said:


> They didn't have any weatherby vanguards, but the Browning...wow


Sounds like you found your gun...I've actually thought about trading my Rem M700 Mountain in a 280 towards the X bolt in 280....


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

I like the feel of all of them. Though none of them feel just right to me with factory stocks when scopes are placed on 'em. I think i might just have a high cheek or hold my head odd; but i need a cheek pad installed or a nice adjustable stock. The rest of the gun; i don't feel. I don't swing my rifles or fast shoulder mount them or even move them around. In fact the only part i feel is the trigger and i usually upgrade that and the stock......so its smoothness of action and accuracy potential for the price that i look at.


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## Putman Lake Campground (Oct 4, 2010)

Swamp Monster said:


> Comparing the feel and balance of the Browning X Bolt to the Savage is like comparing a Camaro SS to a Chevy Aveo. They both accomplish the same task, but one is far more fun to drive!



Is that Aveo the most awesome car to drive or what? :yikes:

Oh okay, I just couldn't resist !! :lol:


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## Putman Lake Campground (Oct 4, 2010)

M1Garand said:


> Sounds like you found your gun...I've actually thought about trading my Rem M700 Mountain in a 280 towards the X bolt in 280....



and a 270 and a 30.30 just to say I have them I guess. but the first two are awesome rounds.

Hard to believe the ballistics of the .280 match the 270 with more knock down and yet the 270 sales are higher. 

It's all about timing and marketing. 

how hard is it to get 280 ammo?


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Remington botched the success of the .280 from day one. They introduced it as the 7mm Remington Express. All it did was confuse people at a time when the 7mm Remington Mag was very popular. It could not match the 7mm mag and it was close to the long successful .270 Win. I twas too bad it was poorly introduced as the .280 may well be the best .30-06 based cartridge we have...and that includes the .30-06!


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

Putman Lake Campground said:


> and a 270 and a 30.30 just to say I have them I guess. but the first two are awesome rounds.
> 
> Hard to believe the ballistics of the .280 match the 270 with more knock down and yet the 270 sales are higher.
> 
> ...


I have all 3 

Really I don't see any difference between the 270 and 280 other than bullet weights. I've never bought ammo for mine, I've loaded it all and shot a number of different ones from 140-160 grns. I did get some 120 Barnes TTSX to try out. Factory ammo isn't too hard, but if I didn't load, I'd keep some on hand as you won't find it in every place that sells ammo like you will the 308, 270 or '06. If it had been released in 1925 instead of the 270, it may be the one enjoying the massive popularity the 270 has.



Swamp Monster said:


> Remington botched the success of the .280 from day one. They introduced it as the 7mm Remington Express. All it did was confuse people at a time when the 7mm Remington Mag was very popular. It could not match the 7mm mag and it was close to the long successful .270 Win. I twas too bad it was poorly introduced as the .280 may well be the best .30-06 based cartridge we have...and that includes the .30-06!


Remington has a history of poor marketing with several very good cartridges. The 280 was actually introduced in the late '50s in Remingtons 740 autoloader. Supposidly it's not loaded to the same pressure as the 270 due to it being in the 740, but that same rifle also was available in the 270. In the late 70's, it was reintroduced as the 7mm-06 then again a few months later as the 7mm Express Remington. A lot of confusion followed due mainly to the 7mm Rem Magnum so it was changed back to the 280 Remington. 

I like my M700 Mountain and threw a Timney trigger in but it does seem to be a little finicky and is more particular than my M700 ADL in 270. I was debating to get a new bold shroud for the 280 (mine has the J-lock) and possibly have it blueprinted, trued and bedded to see if it was a little less fussy. Or skip all that and trade up for an X-bolt. Juries still out...


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## Putman Lake Campground (Oct 4, 2010)

Swamp Monster said:


> Remington botched the success of the .280 from day one. They introduced it as the 7mm Remington Express. All it did was confuse people at a time when the 7mm Remington Mag was very popular. It could not match the 7mm mag and it was close to the long successful .270 Win. I twas too bad it was poorly introduced as the .280 may well be the best .30-06 based cartridge we have...and that includes the .30-06!


I knew it had something to do with the timing of the introduction, how it was introduced and a bad economy at the time.

I agree it does out shoot the 30.06. Shhhh, don't tell the other .06 lovers I said that they'll dislike me LOL.

it's an awesome round.


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## Putman Lake Campground (Oct 4, 2010)

M1Garand said:


> I have all 3
> 
> Really I don't see any difference between the 270 and 280 other than bullet weights. I
> 
> ...


Wow, I thought the 270 came out in the 50's (prime economy) and then the 280 in the 60's. what you are saying explains alot.

What do you mean finicky or fussy for your 280?

Just curious, why to you like the Browning's better than the Savage's other than Elegance?

You sound like a serious shooter, and it's just plain hard to beat the off the shelf accuracy of the savage, and they have actually done a darned fine job of competing with elegance in recent years.

MY buddies 7400 actually had 50 yards more range before the dropping point than my browning blr. I re couped it with light mags that he couldn't shoot, and I had consistant sub moa's that he didn't. But then his was half worn out. All of my remington pumps shoot side by side my Brownings.


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

What I mean by it's fussy is some of my other rifles aren't as touchy to get good groups out of them. Nothing to do with the cartridge, but the rifle, which is a M700 Mountain. It has a pressure point under the barrel and I've seen many free float the barrel in them but I haven't done that yet. I do have a couple of loads that shoot well, but its more particular about what I feed it vs my M700 ADL or M70. 

I like the Savages and have heard nothing but good things about how they shoot, I just don't own one. I did consider their American Classic in either 250 or 300 Savage. Would like a 99 also. I do have a couple of Brownings and both shoot very well.


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## Putman Lake Campground (Oct 4, 2010)

M1Garand said:


> What I mean by it's fussy is some of my other rifles aren't as touchy to get good groups out of them. Nothing to do with the cartridge, but the rifle, which is a M700 Mountain. It has a pressure point under the barrel and I've seen many free float the barrel in them but I haven't done that yet. I do have a couple of loads that shoot well, but its more particular about what I feed it vs my M700 ADL or M70.
> 
> I like the Savages and have heard nothing but good things about how they shoot, I just don't own one. I did consider their American Classic in either 250 or 300 Savage. Would like a 99 also. I do have a couple of Brownings and both shoot very well.



There is supposedly a lot of new science in floating barrels.. but yet my blr (non free floating barrel) is side by side with the vast majority of newer rifles with floating barrels.

I don't own a lot of floating barrels and even though I can understand the science, I can't see the difference for the average hunter/shooter. 

My 300 weatherby is like that.. had a fella try to get me some nice rounds for it. Nothing matched up to factory Weatherby rounds. 

I have a Model 99, I forget which sub model off hand, but an older one. I have to get a round through it to see if it needs rebarreled or not. If it does I"M seriously considering ruining it's collector value and putting a 7mm-08 barrel on it.

I don't own many savages since I"M a pump and lever fan, but the savages I do have are just plain awesome rifles.


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## SmithDerek16 (Jan 19, 2010)

Another week by of sifting and feeling....I object to my original posting and re-addvertise the same question.

Browning X-Bolt in .308
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/52563

Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14x40 w/Mil Dot
http://www.opticsplanet.net/nikon-riflescope-buckmasters-4-14x40.html


I think I have stumbled onto something gents


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Looks like a great choice to me !


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