# Crayfish and trout streams



## Mallard (Jan 9, 2002)

Two part question:

1) Is it legal to take crayfish for consumption, and not bait (Aside from the species protected, as well as females carying eggs) I don't see a regulation pertaining to this, and most text pertains to the crays being used for bait.

2) can a person catch these from a designated trout steam with a regular fishing licence, or must the fisherman posess an all species? (I guess the question is whether or not an "all species" fishing license is required to fish for non-trout species, within a designated trout stream)

Thanks in advance~


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

1) Yes you can take for consumption.

2) An all species is mandatory for a designated trout stream. My question back to you would be, are you sure it is a "designated" trout stream?


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## Mallard (Jan 9, 2002)

Yes, pretty sure it is. It's the boardman river in Traverse City, and I've always treated it as a designated trout stream although I can't remember ever looking to verify this. (upstream from the treatment plant for those of you gaging at the thought of eating anything from that river after the past few years of spills...lol)


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

The Boardman is a type 3 and although it does have special trout regulations, an all species license is NOT required unless you are targeting trout/salmon. Of course, there are certain areas of the Boardman that is closed to all fishing during certain times.


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## Mallard (Jan 9, 2002)

Thank you boehr.

The reason I ask is I have a buddy that wants to try a few for the table. I have a nice trout hole filled with them, and have to imagine the water quality is about as good as it gets for crays. I always purchase an "all species" license, but he doesn't as he usually fishes ponds for pan fish and what not, and usually only purchases a general license. We wanted to make sure he is legal, so he can join in on the catching side.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

Mallard-what you're looking at is probably one of our huge infestations of rusty crayfish, right? The exotic rusty is so aggressive and competitive that they are slowly pushing, or starving, out all other native species, and there's been a lot of studies done in other states on what they could be doing to change our ecosystems up here, just as there are studies on the ruffes, gobies, and zebra mussels. Studies are also showing data that shows rusties may be a significant threat to fish eggs.

I've been catching them and eating them for several years now-last year, it was a crayfish chowder...and I'm very interested in doing an article, or a couple of them, on folks in the Grand Traverse area who do this. As far as anyone knows, besides draining the lakes, managing them by consumption is the only method of controlling them, so let's get more folks out there doing it...let me know if your buddy tries this, I'll be happy to offer any advice if he's interested, and I'd love to do an article on his efforts...ask him to get in touch with me!

BTW-I've got about 50 in the trap here all ready, and most of them are breeding size. 4-6 inches.


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## Mallard (Jan 9, 2002)

Isn't the rusty crayfish protected? I don't have a giude here at work, so maybe its a different species? I thought I read that its illegal to posess or transport the rusty's? Boehr? I'll let you know how we do, but I can assure you there will be a boil, and I can also assure you I WON"T be sucking the heads like those cajuns. lol. Think we're in for some fun.

I had always thought the "crawdads" from the south was the primary "eaters" and that our species was less desirable. I hear more and more about folks eating, and enjoying them from the great lakes, so figure its time to belly up and see what the buzz is about. Any idea what the toxins are for them? I would guess a primary stable in and around the great lakes is zebra's, which in my head would mean increased toxisity levels.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Correct, law is below.

Fisheries Order  227.04
WATERS OPEN AND REGULATIONS GOVERNING THE TAKING OF
WIGGLERS AND CRAYFISH FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES

Under the authority of section 48730 of Act 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being section 324.48730 of the Michigan Compiled Laws, the Director of the Department of Natural Resources on October 10, 2003, ordered that the following waters are open to the taking of wigglers and crayfish for commercial purposes:

That the following waters are open to the taking of wigglers and crayfish for commercial purposes:

1.	The Great Lakes and their connecting waters (including Lakes Superior, Michigan, Huron, Erie, and St. Clair, and the St. Mary's, St. Clair, and Detroit Rivers) except that, the following waters are closed to the taking of wigglers and crayfish for commercial purposes:

a.	That portion of Tawas Bay of Lake Huron lying between the projections of Wadsworth and Church streets of East Tawas for a distance of 900 feet out from the water's edge.

2.	All nontrout streams.

3.	All inland lakes except the following inland lakes which are closed, as indicated, to the taking of wigglers and crayfish for commercial purposes:

a.	Lakes closed year around:
(1)	Gun Lake in Allegan and Barry Counties.
b.	Lakes closed from March 1 through November 30:
(1)	Pine Lake in Barry County.

4.	The following trout streams:

BENZIE COUNTY
Betsie River from River Road, Sec. 30, T26N, R15W, downstream to M-22

CHARLEVOIX COUNTY
Boyne River Pond, Sec. 5, T32N, R5W
Boyne River, Sec. 35, T33N, R6W

CHEBOYGAN COUNTY
Little Sturgeon River, Sec. 24, T35N, R3W
Big Sturgeon River, Sec. 24, T35N, R3W

EMMET COUNTY
Bear River, Secs. 21, 28 & 34, T34N, R5W

GRAND TRAVERSE COUNTY
Boardman River from Beitner Road down to Boardman Lake


KALKASKA COUNTY
That part of the Rapid River west of Co. Road 597 in Secs. 5, 6 & 7, T28N, R8W, down to Torch River

LEELANAU COUNTY
Solon Creek from the S. line of Sec. 16, T28N, R12W, down to the entrance into Cedar Creek, Sec. 9, T28N, R12W Crystal River

MACKINAC COUNTY
Millecoquin River from Millecoquin Lake to Lake Michigan

MANISTEE COUNTY
Big Bear Creek down from Potters Bridge, Sec. 18, T22N, R14W, down to Big Manistee River, Sec. 22, T22N, R15W

MASON COUNTY
Sauble River from highway US-31 down to Hamlin Lake
Pere Marquette River down from Walhalla Bridge to Pere Marquette Lake

MISSAUKEE COUNTY
Clam River from highway 66 to Falmouth Dam
West Branch of Muskegon River from Co. Road Bridge in the Center of Sec. 25, T23N, R6W, down to the Muskegon River, Sec. 3, T22N, R5W

MUSKEGON COUNTY
White River and bayous
Cedar Creek downstream from River Road

OCEANA COUNTY
Pentwater River from highway US-31 down to Pentwater Lake
White River down from Taylor Bridge

WEXFORD COUNTY
Big Manistee River from US-131 downstream

*It shall be unlawful for any person to:*

1.	Commercially harvest wigglers from any state waters from June 1st to September 1st

2.	Use or make use of a water or sand-sucking pump or a mechanically powered device to take or attempt to take wigglers or crayfish.

*3.	Take, possess or sell rusty crayfish (Orconectes rusticus) anywhere in the State of Michigan.*

4.	Take wigglers or crayfish without submitting a monthly catch report as required by FO-228.03.

This order is assigned number FO-227.04, titled Waters Open and Regulations Governing the Taking of Wigglers and Crayfish for Commercial Purposes.

This order rescinds the order entitled Waters Open and Regulations Governing the Taking of Wigglers and Crayfish for Commercial Purposes effective April 1, 2003, and assigned number FO-227.03.

This order shall take effect on April 1, 2004, and shall remain effective until rescinded.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

It is illegal to transport live rusties from one body of water to another, and illegal to sell them, but rusties are listed as an exotic invasive, you mean to tell me that this revision of the law means we can't take rusties from our inland lakes, like mine, and eat them as long as we're in possession of a legal fishing license???

Is that how you read that, Boehr?

To tell the difference in a rusty from another species of cray, look along side of the carapace, or body shell-you'll see a fairly distinct brown patch. 

Go over to Pearl's, and eat the Lousiana crays, then get their recipe and try it yourself with native rusties-you won't taste any difference at all. 

Zebras filter food and retain toxins, crays are opportunistic predators, and although they can and will eat from the bottom of the lake, they feed primarily on invertebrates and green vegetation, so you won't have the toxicity levels in crayfish that you would in a zebra, I wouldn't think...certainly no worse than eating an occasional large lake trout, and lots of people do that, every day. 

Do a search on the web-you'll find lots of interesting stuff about rusties. 

The lakes over here are loaded, and getting worse every year.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

that's for COMMERCIAL take, right? Not personal take??

I can't believe they'd make it illegal to take an exotic species from our waters for personal consumption, when that's the only known way to try to control them at all...they don't in every other state in the union, at least?


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## Mallard (Jan 9, 2002)

That's a bit of my question. If you truely read into it, then it does appear to pertain to the taking for commercial purposes. I can see why they don't want them spred, but will also agree that eating them is a different game, and will also agree that taking these for personal consumption may well be more beneficial than not, but I guess its doubtful any small scale efforts would really push the invaders numbers down. One beneficiary to the crayfish have been the perch, at least currently. it seems there has been a small resurgance of the yellow bellies, and almost every one I clean is packed with crayfish. Contradictory to the negative effects of the zebra and gobi on the perch numbers, I'm glad to see that one of the exotics may well be benefiting them, although your comments about the crayfish eating eggs has me wondering if they are only helping the juvinile and adult perch, while still consuming the eggs which may well lead to troubling times ahead. Aghhhh.....


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

Again, Mallard, I'd really like to do a story on this, but I haven't been able to find any body else who does it in this area. No need for anyone to be a pro at it, or anything like that. 

Tell your buddy to try using a common minnow trap, with the ends opened up a bit to allow the bigger crays to swim in-that will also allow the smaller crays that you don't want to mess with to swim out, but the big ones will be stuck. Tried the traditional crayfish traps, they didn't seem to work, the crays just swam in, ate, then swam back out. 

I bait mine with spare rib and chicken bones, or a hot dog. Tried canned cat food with holes in the lid, but it wasn't enough scent, apparently. Didn't do much. 

I put traps in various water depths, from just a few inches to 5-6 feet, the crays are real sensitive to water temperatures as well as boat traffic and move around a lot. If I'm trapping off a dock, I look for surrounding structure that will offer the crays in the area cover, and if possible, shine a light on it at night. That draws smaller bait into the area, and pretty soon you'll see thousands of glowing eyes-all the crayfish in the area will come if there's bait. 

I keep my crays until I'm ready to cook up a batch in a keep trap, actually, an old bird cage, and feed them every few days. I empty the catch trap every day, seems like if crays outside the trap see a lot inside, it gets harder to catch more-maybe they're smart enough to know those guys inside are goners...


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## Banshee's Wail (Feb 27, 2004)

We had a discussion earlier this year about the legalities of crayfish trapping that included this issue of the Rusty crawfish. I left that conversation with the understanding that it was legal to catch Rusties as long as it was for personal consumption. 

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64256&highlight=Crayfish

Linda--I started trapping crayfish this past spring, and except for having a trap or two stolen, have had a fun time at it. Like you say, it's takes a bunch to make a decent meal, and not living on a lake I've had a little bit of an issue in keeping them alive in an aerated cooler. With respect to traps, I ordered some from www.terrybullard.com that have worked very well for me. His are slightly different than minnow traps...they look relatively the same though. Another thing that's been somewhat of an issue are these round-nosed gobbies. I was surprised to read in the Record Beagle a month or so ago that they only just officially discovered them in Grand Traverse Bay. I found that very odd considering how many and the size of the ones that seem to find their way into my crayfish traps easily enough. I'd be happy to share what little insights I've been able to develop in the short time I've been playing around. You probably have my e-mail but PM me if not.

Chris Raymond


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

Those were gobies they just discovered, Chris, not rusties...the rusties have been around for a few years now, but they are getting worse. On some lakes, like Hubbard, the anglers over there think it has changed the entire ecosystem. And they're awful in the western UP...

The invasion of the rusty crayfish has been widely under-reported, and ignored by our DNR/DEQ when compared to the studies done in other Great Lakes states like Minnesota and Wisconsin. Ontario is quite concerned as well, played host to an international symposium on the subject a few years ago...

In fact, rusties were JUST listed on the signs at lake accesses about exotic species a year or so ago...and talk to a DNR bio about it, and he'll point you to Minnesota...


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## Banshee's Wail (Feb 27, 2004)

Linda--I know that article was dealing with round nose gobies, that's why I found it so odd given that I can get a trap half full of them some times. It didn't seem to me they should have been unknown when I was catching so many of them. 

Yeah, rusties would seem to be a problem. One solution in my mind is to change the regulations to allow commercial harvesting (with traps of course) and to build a crayfish market here in the Great Lakes region. How many crayfish are eaten down south and out west? Seems like an opportunity to me; but if I had the time to chase something like this down I wouldn't be speaking of it openly on a bulletin board. ;-) 

I know the DNR would have issues with the idea with respect to controlling population spread. But it I can't imagine it would be that hard to put measures in place to ensure Rusties go only into consumptive markets vs. those for bait and school biology classes, etc. I will admit though that if a commercial market were to be developed, there might be some folks who build Rusty pops where they currently aren't just to make a buck...and that would probably be the rub of the issue.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

just read your post again...duh. I spend too much time on the pc, sometimes it all becomes a blur...

I think that's the way the scientific world works, it takes them forever to come down conclusively about something we've all known about forever...they just officially announced this spring that Lake Bellaire is now infested with zebra mussels-we knew that three years ago...


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## MSUICEMAN (Jan 9, 2002)

Linda, I posed a question about possible Rusty crawfish control and didn't get a response. unfortunately i think a lot of people are passive on this because the general public is also. they think more crawfish for the fish to eat. While this may be true, people don't realize the damage they do. Anyone see any weeds in Hubbard? BTW, them dang spiny fleas are in hubbard too. but thats another story altogether.

steve


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

Great, what next....????   

MSU, from what I've read and been told, there is no control for rusties after they've been introduced into a new ecosystem short of draining the lake, and killing everything in it-and even then, the rusties might survive. They're pretty tough, a lot tougher than a lot of fish species are.

What the general public doesn't realize is two things about rusties-first of all, they're only considered edible by fish, and only SOME fish, when they're in the soft-shell molt stage, which is only something like twice a year for very brief periods. And when they're in soft shell stage, they know it, and don't exactly hang out in public. 

Second, rusties are INCREDIBLY prolific, laying millions of eggs, in warmer waters, sometimes 2-3 times a year...so there's no way most fish could keep up with that even if they wanted to, and like I said, only SOME species of fish will eat them, and even then, they're not a preferred food source.

Now, raccoons LOVE them...but I think we have plenty of those, no need to augment the populations any further there, either. And the ***** can't get to the rusties unless they're in very shallow water.


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## ibthetrout (Sep 24, 2003)

I don't know anything about crayfish. Can they be caught in ponds too?


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## Mallard (Jan 9, 2002)

Sure they can, as long as there is a population. Best way to check is to snorkel around and have a look see. if you see one, there will undoubtedly be more. basically you can use a wire minnow trap, like Linda mentioned, bend the openings into sort of an oval and a little bigger than they come stock. Wire a piece of fish to the middle and set it where you see the crays. Usually there are decent numbers in rock piles, and as well a few scattered in the weeds. The scent of the fish will reach out and bring them in from quite a ways off. Check them daily, and try and keep them alive in an airated cooler until you have enough to eat. Keeping the bait fresh seems to work best, although they will still work a "past fresh" chunk as well. I change it up more for my sake than anything else.


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