# Arrow Gurus



## eboll

Been reading up and watching a lot of videos on building heavy arrows with high foc. Seeing stuff on nock tuning, bare shaft tuning, testing various field point weights, etc. Is there anyone near Lapeer/North Branch that could help me out with setting up some arrows for hunting? I don't have any of the tools for squaring, fletching, inserts, etc.


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## Pier Pressure

What’s your current setup? How heavy are you looking to go? Planning on hunting anything bigger than whitetails?


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## eboll

I was given a set up of 350 spine carbon express maxima blue rz. They have blazer vanes, and the standard aluminum inserts. I was hoping to be around 450-500 total, depending on how they fly. Want to have at least 15 percent foc too. I only hunt whitetails currently.


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## Matt3ddsteel

Go watch the latest vid that thp just posted on youtube. Lots of good info on the exact thing you're talking about.


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## eboll

I saw that video, and have watched a bunch of the Ranch Fairy's videos too. Looking for someone who has a fletching tool, arrow squaring tool, and can remove/install inserts.


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## Pier Pressure

Need more info on your bow. Make/model, cam style, draw length and weight, arrow length. What weight and style of broadheads do you plan to shoot?


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## thill

eboll said:


> I saw that video, and have watched a bunch of the Ranch Fairy's videos too. Looking for someone who has a fletching tool, arrow squaring tool, and can remove/install inserts.


I’m going through the same process. I spent hours yesterday shooting bare shafts, various size field points, shooting paper and knock tuning. I had no idea knock tuning made such a difference. I plan on doing the work myself instead of stopping in the bow shop each time I need an arrow fletched. With all the resources available online and instructional videos on YouTube, all the things you mentioned are well within reach if you’re willing to try. I’m not talking about anything that involves a bow press, just fletching arrows and messing around with insert weights. If you teach yourself to do these things, then you’re never dependent on someone else to help you.


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## Golden Arrow II

Unless your shooting an extremely short arrow, to get those arrows to your spec's your going to be on the weak side of the 350 spine. Which will cause you to have to tune on the bow, nock tune each arrow, to get the best performance out of them. Not saying that you can't do it, but it will take some time to get them to fly good. A stiffer arrow spine would be better to start out with. A weaker spine it way harder to tune than a stiffer spine arrow.


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## thill

FOBs might be an easy alternative to fletching arrows.

I just placed an order to give them a try.


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## eboll

I do plan on getting a few different arrows to test. I saw those fobs, they look interesting. My only concern would be them coming off in the brush that I go through on public land. My buddy found an arrow fletching jig, and another friend has a squaring tool. I will be experimenting tonight/tomorrow. Any particular combo work for you, thill?


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## eboll

I shoot a hoyt torrex which has a 327 ibo, I'm at 63 pounds currently, with a 26.5 inch draw. I'd like to shoot the 125 black hornet ser razor broadheads.


Pier Pressure said:


> Need more info on your bow. Make/model, cam style, draw length and weight, arrow length. What weight and style of broadheads do you plan to shoot?


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## thill

eboll said:


> Any particular combo work for you, thill?


I started out with a 28" 250 spine black eagle rampage with a 50 gr insert and it took a while but I got 250 gr field points to fly great bare shafted. That set up proved to be too heavy to use with my EZV sight. I couldn't shoot beyond 35 yards, the arrow was too slow. 
Yesterday I picked up 3 more arrows but in a 300 spine w/a 50 gr insert and it flew great with a 225 gr field point and I was able to shoot out pass 50 yards with decent bare shaft groups. I ordered some fobs to try so as soon as they're delivered I'll test them out. I'm pretty sure this will be my set up for the coming season. 28” Black Eagle Rampage 300 spine with a total of 275 grains up front. I plan on having 150 grains in inserts and 125 gr single bevel Broadhead.


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## Pier Pressure

eboll said:


> I shoot a hoyt torrex which has a 327 ibo, I'm at 63 pounds currently, with a 26.5 inch draw. I'd like to shoot the 125 black hornet ser razor broadheads.


As is, your current 350s should tune and fly well with 125 heads. If you’re looking to go heavier I’d move into a stiffer shaft with heavier inserts (brass).

Probably not heavier than what you’re shooting now but I’m shooting Easton Hexx 330s at 29” with 50 grain inserts and 125 heads, 3-Flex Fletch 360 vanes and standard H nocks. Total arrow weight is just under 446 grains. Best tuning, most consistent arrows I’ve ever built. Bows are a Hoyt Defiant 34 and an Xpedition Denali 30.5” DL at 62lbs.

I’m not far from you and can help you build something new. Shoot me a PM if interested.


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## bowhunter426

Good luck on your endeavors. One of the best archery tools I have bought was an arrow saw and fletching jig.


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## eboll

Well, here us an update for you guys. Pier Pressure graciously hosted me and showed me how he builds arrows. Got 6 gold tip velocity XT arrows in 300 spine, cut to 26 inches and squared on both ends. We added 100 grain brass inserts and flex fletch 360 fletchings. I then shot bare shaft and a fletched arrow. Nock right and high every time, which is what I was getting with my other arrows.


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## eboll

My rest doesn't have vertical adjustment, so Pier Pressure moved my nocking point, serving a new string loop. After some more tweaks in the bow press, and me fixing my grip pressure, I got some good results. Bare shaft and fletched arrows coming in very close to being the same.


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## eboll

Tonight I got my broadheads from VPA (125 grain 3 blade), and they shot great with my field points. Just a touch lower at 20 yards. I think some of that gap was caused by me being afraid to clip those beautiful new fletchings haha. So total arrow stats are 26 inch, 100 grain brass inserts, 125 grain heads,3 right helical 3.6 inch flex fletch vanes, for a total arrow weight of 488 grains and a 18 percent foc. 
Huge shout out to Pier Pressure for building the arrows, and helping me get my bow tuned. I can't say enough about your generosity. I plan on acquiring my own supplies to build arrows in the future. Will be also looking to buy a bow press. 
On a side note, these arrows hit hard and are soooooo quiet.


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## NoJoe

My arrows for the season. Will be shooting the 125gr Magnus Stinger


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## Pier Pressure

eboll said:


> Tonight I got my broadheads from VPA (125 grain 3 blade), and they shot great with my field points. Just a touch lower at 20 yards. I think some of that gap was caused by me being afraid to clip those beautiful new fletchings haha. So total arrow stats are 26 inch, 100 grain brass inserts, 125 grain heads,3 right helical 3.6 inch flex fletch vanes, for a total arrow weight of 488 grains and a 18 percent foc.
> Huge shout out to Pier Pressure for building the arrows, and helping me get my bow tuned. I can't say enough about your generosity. I plan on acquiring my own supplies to build arrows in the future. Will be also looking to buy a bow press.
> On a side note, these arrows hit hard and are soooooo quiet.


Eric, it was my pleasure. Glad I could help.


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## Eyecon

Solid info gentlemen. I am interested in this process as well. I watch all of the THP videos and this year I decided I’d be switching from a xbow to compound after the season. Well I broke my xbow so I bought a compound bow last week. When I told the guy at the archery shop what arrows I wanted he said they’ll be to stiff and he had 340’s. Well I bought the 340’s so I could start shooting. Ranch fairy says shoot a 250 and 300 see which one shoots better. Is there a place to buy single arrows? Or do I have to buy 6 packs of each?


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## 454casull

BTW, are pictures 1 & 2 at different draw lengths? In one your bow arm appears to be in the correct position and you actually look short while the second you have a pretty good bend in your elbow and your anchor has moved. If the same then you are not consistent. You want bone on bone alignment. Sounds like a lot of work because it is, the benefit will be your progression will be much quicker.


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## Pier Pressure

Also in form pic #2 you have your nose to the string. This is great as it adds another piece of consistency to your anchor point.


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## Eyecon

454casull said:


> BTW, are pictures 1 & 2 at different draw lengths? In one your bow arm appears to be in the correct position and you actually look short while the second you have a pretty good bend in your elbow and your anchor has moved. If the same then you are not consistent. You want bone on bone alignment. Sounds like a lot of work because it is, the benefit will be your progression will be much quicker.


Yes. I took the first picture to show where I feel like my left arm should be. I watched an archery 101 video by John Dudley he said to point left arm at the target then draw back to my face. When I do that the string is short. The second picture shows how much I bend my arm to get my right hand to the anchor point. The second picture is how I have been shooting


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## 454casull

This is why we could use a better pic at full draw, a mirror image if you will. You are bending the elbow which could be a too short DL issue but it could be your total body alignment and the DL is correct. Don’t want you to change DL just yet. Aim at a point that is at shoulder height.


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## 454casull

I have shot with a bent elbow and it does impact arrow flight.


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## Eyecon

Is this a better picture? Or do you mean for the other side when you say mirror image? I’ve been shooting using the new grip. Seems comfortable and I’ve been shooting pretty good. I have not done any other adjustments. The bare shaft arrows are longer than the arrows they cut for me when I bought the bow.


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## 454casull

Muuuch better, draw length actually looks pretty good. I would lower your anchor point, you have the sky high elbow going on. Work on your grip, make sure your bow shoulder is not all scrunched up like you a shrugging and open the stance a tad, left foot should be a bit behind the right. You may end up going .5" longer but for now work with what you have. How is you pin movement? Dancing like a Jack Russell on speed or slow and drifting?


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## 454casull

On second thought keep it where it is and add .5" to the draw length and see if your tear improves. I think your bow has a sliding module and can adjust without a press, don't forget the draw stop too. Google GRIVs Thing a week and watch the one one low hold, I think it's #8 and maybe 9 too. He talks about shoulder alignment, you may be bunching up the bow shoulder to get to anchor.


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## Urriah

454casull said:


> On second thought keep it where it is and add .5" to the draw length and see if your tear improves. I think your bow has a sliding module and can adjust without a press, don't forget the draw stop too. Google GRIVs Thing a week and watch the one one low hold, I think it's #8 and maybe 9 too. He talks about shoulder alignment, you may be bunching up the bow shoulder to get to anchor.


I think part of the issue in the most recent picture is that his hand is really scrunched up behind the release trigger; makes it look odd to me but is obviously the safest way to take a picture in the house lol. I think if his release hand was relaxed and around the trigger he'd probably look about right. But I agree that .5" or even .25" more looks like it'd be more comfortable.


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## 454casull

The man has some shoulders so I cannot tell if it is muscle or he has his bow shoulder too high. The anchor is ok as long as he can repeat it but the high elbow is probably adding tension to the upper body. OP Sorry but could you get a picture from behind as well? Have the photographer stand on a chair, not an over head though that would be good too but more of an over the draw shoulder shot. I'm guessing your elbow/forearm/hand are not inline with the arrow and you have not recruited the back muscles to hold at full draw. Again trying to coach/comment over the net is tough but it can be done. I think I've said it in this thread or another one but I struggled all summer with consistency until I added .25" to my DL and that's when everything fell into place. BTW extra half inch should still be ok with the arrow shown.


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## Eyecon

Sorry I’ve been a little busy the last few days. I’ll try to get the picture taken tonight. I did watch the videos you suggested. As well as the school of nock videos. I haven’t added any to my draw length since I wanted to focus on the form these guys talked about. I’m getting used to the grip but haven’t shot much in the last few days. Least amount since buying the bow. I’m going to bring the bag inside close range should be better than no shooting. I snuck out early today. My pin doesn’t dance I’d say I’m working on staying still after pulling the trigger the most. This is my first two groups today. I know I have a long way to go but I’m getting tighter groups. 


454casull said:


> The man has some shoulders so I cannot tell if it is muscle or he has his bow shoulder too high. The anchor is ok as long as he can repeat it but the high elbow is probably adding tension to the upper body. OP Sorry but could you get a picture from behind as well? Have the photographer stand on a chair, not an over head though that would be good too but more of an over the draw shoulder shot. I'm guessing your elbow/forearm/hand are not inline with the arrow and you have not recruited the back muscles to hold at full draw. Again trying to coach/comment over the net is tough but it can be done. I think I've said it in this thread or another one but I struggled all summer with consistency until I added .25" to my DL and that's when everything fell into place. BTW extra half inch should still be ok with the arrow shown.[/QUO


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## Uinta_Highline

After reading all of this, watching RF, and doing additional research online, this all seems so intimidating to me. My goal is to shoot high FOC. This was my first year archery hunting, and I had success with a 350 Easton Axis with a G5 broadhead, but it was perfect conditions for the shot. 

My set back is that in new to archery, so the idea of paper tuning, bare shaft tuning, etc. seems intimidating to me. My local shops don’t buy into the heavy arrow craze, so they are no help. So, I really have no idea where to start. 

Currently shooting a Mathews V3 at 60lbs with a 28” draw length. My goal is to get around 500-525g in total. I have Iron Will 125g single bevels with bleeders on order, but I’m open to other heads. I honestly just don’t know where to start.


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## 454casull

Your Axis 340 spine Assuming 29" and using Blazer Vanes and 125 tip gets you 440Gr with 11% FOC swagged the insert and nock. Plenty for deer, if you want add 50gr extra mass up front, spine "should" be ok and you are at 490 and 14-15%. Going over that will force you up a spine and then you start over again. Used the Goldtip FOC calculator.


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## Uinta_Highline

454casull said:


> Your Axis 340 spine Assuming 29" and using Blazer Vanes and 125 tip gets you 440Gr with 11% FOC swagged the insert and nock. Plenty for deer, if you want add 50gr extra mass up front, spine "should" be ok and you are at 490 and 14-15%. Going over that will force you up a spine and then you start over again. Used the Goldtip FOC calculator.


I’m not opposed to changing arrows either. Just looking to push up to that 500 mark. Still need to do a lot of research in tuning, including bare shaft. Probably undertaking a little too much in my first ear of archery/bow hunting.


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## 454casull

I’ll assume you’ve read the whole thread. If bow fit is proper and your form is very good and repeatable then enjoy the challenge of bare shaft tuning. Like I said current setup is plenty heavy, I’d be more concerned with arrow flight but we as archers are always looking for an edge. The deer I killed this season were with arrows under400 grains.


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