# Can't find a roof leak! Watervliet MI



## Kevin49098 (Oct 31, 2009)

I have had a leaky roof for some time now. I had the biggest roofers in Berrien County come over and they replaced the flashing between the first and second floor and the roof still leaks.
Then I had some roofers come out that advertise as "leak specialists", they replaced some shingles and the roof still leaks. I had them come back over and showed them, they said "sorry your roof leaks" and left:rant:. The way they see it I paid them to replace a section of roof and they did that.
I no there isn't much money in chasing leaks but how hard is it for a roofer?
Should I just start tearing up shingles, I'm not even sure what to look for other than wet spots. If I do find it I don't know how to put new shingles on.
Is it time to find another roofer or just start tearing up shingles? Anybody know of a good roofer in northern Berrien County?
If any roofer near me thinks they can find the leak pm me and maybe we work something out, I can't imagine it taking much for somebody that knows what they are doing, also bring your fishing pole if you want, a good river hole is 150 yards from my back door.


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## RiverRanger (Aug 23, 2006)

I feel your pain. I have a similar problem at my house that has been going on at least four years now. My original contractor just won't give me the time of day anymore. I even went so far as telling him that I will split the cost with him,no problem he said,now he just does not even show up anymore. I just gave up and said I will pay for this out of my own pocket and like you I can NOT find anyone that will help me, I know where it leaks but I just don't know how to fix it correctly. I just wish I was a jack of all trades.


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## Sling (Aug 2, 2005)

Find a contractor with thermal scan camera's......they can find the problem. Try Out Of Sight Thermal Imaging in Jackson and Flint.


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## HunterZ (Jan 1, 2005)

Have your tried the hose trick. Unforunetly you did not discridbe the leak or where it is to begin to evaluate. 
The hoes trick is simple. Hold a hose at or around where you think the leak is. Having somone on the inside (attic if poss) to tell you when it comes in. Keep in mind that water can travel some distance in a roofing system before it enters the dwelling.
Keep moving the hose up the roof in itervals. Once the leak is found, you can address that area.
Many roof leaks are not roof leaks at all. If you have a chiminey or wall in that area, those could be the culprit. I have seen may masonary issues look like roof leaks.
The thermal imaging is a great idea also. Many commercial flat roofer have these for commerical uses. It should work in a sloped roof also.
Dan


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## outdoor junkie (Sep 16, 2003)

Any info you can give, might help some of us point you in the right direction. Whats in the area of the leak, any pipes, walls, chimneys, anything at all maybe a valleye. Are you positive its the roof. I've been on alot of "roof leaks" that turn out to be siding leaks.


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## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

Sling said:


> Find a contractor with thermal scan camera's......they can find the problem. Try Out Of Sight Thermal Imaging in Jackson and Flint.




That was going to be my suggestion. Find someone who will do a thermal imaging scan of the whole house and you should be able to find out exactly where it's getting in. As someone else pointed out, occasionally water can travel quite a distance from where it's getting in and where it's showing up on the inside of the house.

Good luck!

John


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

With the wind that is blowing, you may not need to tear any shingles off, may get blown off.

There is a local roofer, George Huff, pretty good guy, I ususally run across him at the sidetrack, will ask him next time I see him.


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## UNREEL (Jun 8, 2007)

Are you trying to find a leak on a 20yr old roof? Time for a new one. Is the water coming through the ceiling or down the wall? Remember, water runs downhill. Roof leaks can come from anywhere before the show themselves inside.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Matthew L (Oct 21, 2010)

I agree... look for the leak site at wall, chimney, or valley. If you can view the attic, this may help too. You could try and run a garden hose up there, and start at the bottom edge of the roof, and place a person in the attic, and slowly work your way up the roof trying to target those location. 

Well, it has worked for me before, GL


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## Greenbush future (Sep 8, 2005)

I started to get a small water stain in my ceiling, lower level of a tri-level, and found the leak to be the flashing around one of my Anderson windows on the second floor. Some of the reasons can be detected at your level by inspecting everything, and it may well be worth looking at all of your windows to make sure they are still caulked in well. If your dealing with a 20 year old roof, I would not even bother with repairs, just replace it before any serious water damage occurs.


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## Kevin49098 (Oct 31, 2009)

The roof is about 7 years old, I bought the house 6 years ago and the previous owners said the roof was done the year before but no paperwork for it.
I have checked the flashings around the chimney and between the first and second floor and sealed them better with roof repair stuff.
It is coming in through the seams in between the decking in the middle of the roof about 3 feet from the edge of the roof. I can see it in the attic. That is what makes me think it is leak between some shingles. I checked directly above where the leak is coming through and there looks to be no problem there.
It has to running in and down the decking to the first place it can get in.
I will try the hose thing as soon as it stops raining....
The thermal imaging sounds pricey, hopefully it won't be needed.


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## Wendy (Oct 6, 2008)

what kind of shingles do you have? 3 tab? Check between the tabs, alot of times they'll get nailed where the tab space is for the shingle above it... so the nail is exposed or gets pulled out leaving a hole.

Are there any protrusions through the roof above the leak? Stink pipe etc? Check around those really well. Some times you can hear squishy noises like a wet sponge if you press where the waters pooling under the shingle. 

My roof ened up leaking or so I thought until I discovered the guy never glued our stink pipe up inside the attic and it leaked on to our ceilings.


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## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

I've never priced it out but I'm pretty sure that thermal imaging does cost a few bucks. But there is a benefit to having it done other than just finding your water leak. You will also be able to see where you have any problems pertaining to air leaks due to bad or lack of insulation. You could kill two birds with one stone. Find your leak, and identify any problem areas that can be corrected. That way you'll save on heating/cooling bills in the future! It wouldn't hurt to at least call someone that does it and get a rough idea what it costs. I'm sure that it's based on the size of the house. They should be able to give you a pretty good estimate over the phone. Then you can decide if it's worth it or not.

John


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## Matthew L (Oct 21, 2010)

if it's 3-tabs you could run a bead of roof tar on the rain lines in that area to see if that's truly the area. At times, the water can run across the top edge of shinle row and show elsewhere.


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## Big Game (Feb 7, 2002)

Just curious how the thermal imaging camera would show the leaking area. Trying to learn is all.

On a note along those lines maybe you know of someone on a volunteer fire dept that has one. Maybe they could come over and try to find it cheaper than an actual company. If that would work maybe in return you could donate a small amount to the dept. Just a thought.


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## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

I'm no expert, but the way thermal imaging cameras work is that they indicate areas of different temperature in different colors. The area where water is leaking will be a different temperature than the surrounding area so it will stand out.

John


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## bigcountrysg (Oct 9, 2006)

My roof was leaking I went ahead and replaced it.


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## Sling (Aug 2, 2005)

Probably pay em just to shoot the area in guestion....rather than a whole house scan...never know till ya ask


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## -Axiom- (Jul 24, 2010)

Perhaps it's a siding or window leak?
It's not likely that your roof is leaking in the open field of the roof.
Check all penetrations that go through the roof.
Chimneys, chimney caps, pipes, walls, siding, windows, a leaking pipe, are all suspect.

A roof leak that leaks when it rains can usually be found by an average roofer, what I mean is, for the roof to be leaking from simple rain it's usually pretty obvious what the problem is.


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## Kevin49098 (Oct 31, 2009)

I think it is in the middle of the roof somewhere, otherwise the water would have to travel a long ways, but I know that is possible.
The second roofers I had come out said something about the way the shingles( I think 3 tab) were not laid properly because of how they lined up in spots. It was kind of seam to seam of the shingles going down, hard to explain. As best as I can explain it, it is that the one below was lined up with the one above it...
I will try to get a pic or 2 up tomorrow, hopefully somebody will see what I am talking about.


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## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

Without seeing it but from your description I think you've definitely found your problem. The vertical seams between shingles should NEVER line up above/below each other! Problem solved. Sounds like you're going to need to get the roof replaced if it has been done that way in more than a couple of spots.

John


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## storman (Mar 12, 2008)

jpollman said:


> Without seeing it but from your description I think you've definitely found your problem. The vertical seams between shingles should NEVER line up above/below each other! Problem solved. Sounds like you're going to need to get the roof replaced if it has been done that way in more than a couple of spots.
> 
> John



Bingo! It would be hard to line up the seam on a three tab as the rain slots would be off. the shingles should have a 6" side lap. If they over exposed the shingles the nails may be just covered by the row above and taking on water at the end joints, meaning the head lap is exposed at the side lap. See it all the time. tab exposure should only be 5 or 5.5" at most. I hate to say it but it sounds like you have a poorly installed roof.


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## outdoor junkie (Sep 16, 2003)

Yup sounds like a hack job to me. All to common now a days. Seems everyone is a roofer today, and carrying no insurances they can undercut our prices and cut our throat. I hate hacks.


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## Wendy (Oct 6, 2008)

wow, no fixing that!

Can you find out who did the roof? I doubt they'd have pulled a permit with the township.. but you never know.


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## Fabner1 (Jan 24, 2009)

Kevin,

Roof cement the hail out of every thing that the shingles come in contact to. You could cement the seams where they are too close. Go directly above the leak first and then spread out. A can of cement is cheaper than all that other stuff.

Better start savin' for a new roof, at least on that side.

Fred


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## Kevin49098 (Oct 31, 2009)

I went up on the roof yesterday, no pics but it is as I described with them being misaligned. I am thinking it was a homeowner job on the roof. I am thinking maybe they started that part of the roof in 2 spots and where their work met they ended up with them not being properly layered out.
I found some seams that when I pressed on them there was still water in them. I used that black roof tar in some seams and under some lose shingles. 
The last roofers that were out replaced a maybe 8 foot around section by the leak, but it looks like if they would have went out a few feet further they would have actually replaced the bad section.
Like I said the roof is about 7 years old and it is just a little leak, so if the roof tar takes care of the leak I am going to consider it fixed for now.
Light rain today and no leak, if I can this afternoon I will hit the roof with the hose. Thanks all for the help.


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## HunterZ (Jan 1, 2005)

Many manufacturers make the same color blends in three tabs that they did 7 years ago. If the messed up only in one area than replace that area. It would be no different than if a tree put a hole in the roof and you patched it in. Just make sure any shingle that are salvagable around the repair are tarred back down for wind.
Just not sure how a progfessional looking for a leak in a three tab would not catch the lined up end joints...?


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