# Tankless hot water heater and well water



## Downriver Tackle (Dec 24, 2004)

Has anyone had success or failure trying to use a tankless water heater on a well system. After doing some research, there seems to be an issue with wells and the pressure fluctuations. Most posts were more than a year old though. Any personal experience from anyone here?
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## caseyj (Apr 8, 2001)

My experience with a tankless water heater was that it would freeze up in the winter. It had to be mounted on an exerior wall and in doing that, the incoming water from my well would freeze and shut down the water flow. Now this was a number of years ago, so maybe that is no longer an issue or has been improved over the years.


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## Downriver Tackle (Dec 24, 2004)

I'm looking at propane indoor models.
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## Randle (Nov 6, 2000)

No problem at all for me other than it takes a while for the water to warm up when you turn it on. Our old hot water tank system was slow to warm up too so it doesnt bother me too much. The unit is installed in our garage . We have had it about a year and a half. Huge savings in LP for us.


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## Big Reds (Oct 14, 2007)

I can't imagine why well water would make a difference one way or another.
I was a water plant operator for six years, where the water comes from should not be an issue. 
The pressure should be the same as what you have existing whether it is a regular water heater or tankless. If you like long hot showers, it won't keep up from my customers' feedback. 
Sure you may save a few bucks not heating water all the time, but it pales in comparison to cold showers! lol


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## Downriver Tackle (Dec 24, 2004)

Big Reds said:


> I can't imagine why well water would make a difference one way or another.
> I was a water plant operator for six years, where the water comes from should not be an issue.
> The pressure should be the same as what you have existing whether it is a regular water heater or tankless. If you like long hot showers, it won't keep up from my customers' feedback.
> Sure you may save a few bucks not heating water all the time, but it pales in comparison to cold showers! lol


 If you look at different models, most have a minimum water pressure. Some are 40psi, some are 30. I assume they quit heating if it drops below that. Some reviews and tech articles blamed inconsistent heating on varying well pressure. Like I said, most were more than a year old posts. Wondering if anyone had success with a certain model or brand.


What do you have Randle?
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## Randle (Nov 6, 2000)

Its a Renai, not sure on the spelling. Its nice because its cheap and the hot water does not run out like in tank systems. The colder it is out the longer it takes for the water to heat up. Like I mentioned, it doesnt bother me but it is definitely slower to get the water coming out of the faucet up to temp.


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## PLUMMER47 (Dec 9, 2006)

I am an authorized repair and installer for Rinnai,Bosch and Noritz. I install Rinnai the most by far and they are the best only because their venting systems are cheaper and meet code cheaper. Anyways wells and tankless are a great option, anyone who bad mouths a tankless water heater just doesn't know the truth and facts, they are far superior and efficient than anything else you can use except a boiler and indirect tank. Pressure has little to NO effect on performance but water flow does. Actually on well systems you can get more hot water than from city water in winter months. As the ground provides constant water temp of 53 degrees and city can go as low as 34. Temperature rise is the key factor in sizing systems 50 degree rise at 6gpm is all you need for wells but in winter on city 50 degree rise on 34 degree water is only 84 degree shower. The only thing I will recommend and it is a must wether your on city or well is a white virgin vinegar flush every 6 months regardless of the amount of use. Its just like the REQUIRED flushing of a tank type to maintain optimum performance. Other wise you can burn thru a heat exchanger and rinnai by the way has the best customer support warranty and speed of getting parts on site if necessary. I have installed hundreds and only serviced a handful. I have never seen one just fail or wear out. It was ALWAYS installer error or lack of maintenance. Regardless of brand. 1 thing DO NOT buy from big box, most of the units are NOT made for the United States and do not meet ASTM-NFPA or AGA ratings. Also those nice aquastar bosch units are special for canada and europe, u can't get parts from Bosch for them, unless its a universal part, a John Alden company supplies the parts out of Oregon/California, that was a fun learning experience. If you need any help or advice , I'd be glad to help, hate to see good intentions go bad because of improper install, then of course homeowners bad mouth the product because of bad install. Use the webstone valve kit as u will need it for the flush. Good Luck


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## Threefish (Jan 20, 2009)

Put one in 2005 and haven't had any problems with it.


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## ih772 (Jan 28, 2003)

I'd *never* own another tankless water heater. We have one at our cabin and it can't maintain a constant temperature 80% of the time, too many times the water ends up running cold. As the pressure from the well and pressure tank fluctuates, the gas valve in the heater won't open up like its supposed too. TOTAL POS!


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## PLUMMER47 (Dec 9, 2006)

ih772, what do you have ? Interested in selling it ? How old is it ? If its a Rinnai, Noritz, Takagi, Solo I would be willing to buy it and save you all your headaches......ps. It has nothing to do with pressure fluctuations.....

Just a reminder if you have one, get a 5 gallon bucket 2-3 gallons of white vinegar, a set of clothes washer machine hoses and a sump pump old or any kind of easy and cheap pump hook it up and flush it with the isolation valves ( webstone valve kit) it will help performance "IF" you have build up and extend life. If you have build up on your shower heads and faucets you'll have in the heater no matter what kind you have. Some brands will void your nice 10 or 12 year warranty if you don't flush.

Pm me if you want to sell the bad unit....in fact I could probably trade you a brand new Bradford White ( made 100% in Greenville, Michigan) 40 gallon electric or gas for it , if she's not that old and one of those brands


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## N M Mechanical (Feb 7, 2008)

Pressure can be a problem with the OD's if your well drops down low enough say under 30 psi also the electric ones are pos
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## mi duckdown (Jul 1, 2006)

I have a bosch 125 NG at the cottage for the last 8 years love it.
water pressure from the the pump is a consideration.
if your pump/pressure is not set up right, you will have fluctuation in temp. 
Like going from 30 to 50 psi while taking a shower.
Gotta tweak it.


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## johnhunter247 (Mar 12, 2011)

I have a Takagi tankless that has been in my house since I built it in 2000 and have a well and never had any problems. Once every two years I clean the igniter but thats it. I would never go without a tankless again after having one.


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## PLUMMER47 (Dec 9, 2006)

mi duckdown said:


> I have a bosch 125 NG at the cottage for the last 8 years love it.
> water pressure from the the pump is a consideration.
> if your pump/pressure is not set up right, you will have fluctuation in temp.
> Like going from 30 to 50 psi while taking a shower.
> Gotta tweak it.


Was that bosch an Aquastar unit? ( if so that would be the slow response from that unit) Older bosh unit do have slow response compared to the other brands. It has to do with the flow sensor, which is an inline impeller and in some cases it only takes a little piece of debris or build up to impede the proper functioning of the sensor. Noritz is the best and a close second between rinnai and solo. If you see its all molex connectors and fittings that only go together one way. The impeller is right on the inlet side and a part of the brass connection on the bottom of the unit. ( all brands). I have several working on 20-40psi switches with no issues. Flow is usually the problem and some cheaper units won't activate until you have atleast 1 gpm, this is where CHEAP single handle faucets can play havock with them.


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## ih772 (Jan 28, 2003)

PLUMMER47 said:


> ih772, what do you have ? Interested in selling it ? How old is it ? If its a Rinnai, Noritz, Takagi, Solo I would be willing to buy it and save you all your headaches......ps. It has nothing to do with pressure fluctuations.....
> 
> Just a reminder if you have one, get a 5 gallon bucket 2-3 gallons of white vinegar, a set of clothes washer machine hoses and a sump pump old or any kind of easy and cheap pump hook it up and flush it with the isolation valves ( webstone valve kit) it will help performance "IF" you have build up and extend life. If you have build up on your shower heads and faucets you'll have in the heater no matter what kind you have. Some brands will void your nice 10 or 12 year warranty if you don't flush.
> 
> Pm me if you want to sell the bad unit....in fact I could probably trade you a brand new Bradford White ( made 100% in Greenville, Michigan) 40 gallon electric or gas for it , if she's not that old and one of those brands


Pressure has everything to do with it. When the pressure falls enough the gas valve closes and the burner turns off. When the pressure rises during a cycle of the pump and pressure tank, the gas valve won't reopen and the burner won't re-ignite 80% of the time even though there is still a demand for hot water. When it does work, the water pressure is near its maximum, the gas valve will open and briefly operate until the pressure drops enough for the valve to close. The valve on my unit doesn't work by measuring a volume, it works by measuring a difference in pressure. There are not any clogged faucets shower heads or scale or any sort of crud built up in the unit. I'm the one that has observed this POS first hand and I can see what is happening, even though it may be contrary to what you believe.


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## Downriver Tackle (Dec 24, 2004)

Looking at a 9.5gpm Rinnai model. Seems they have the pressure fluctuation issue under control. Theirs operate at a wide range. Low end was around 10psi, when most other brands have a 30psi minimum. Thanks for the advice guys!
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## PLUMMER47 (Dec 9, 2006)

ih772 said:


> Pressure has everything to do with it. When the pressure falls enough the gas valve closes and the burner turns off. When the pressure rises during a cycle of the pump and pressure tank, the gas valve won't reopen and the burner won't re-ignite 80% of the time even though there is still a demand for hot water. When it does work, the water pressure is near its maximum, the gas valve will open and briefly operate until the pressure drops enough for the valve to close. The valve on my unit doesn't work by measuring a volume, it works by measuring a difference in pressure. There are not any clogged faucets shower heads or scale or any sort of crud built up in the unit. I'm the one that has observed this POS first hand and I can see what is happening, even though it may be contrary to what you believe.


What brand do you have? Where is the pressure sensor? Have you done a walk thru with an online tech? Did you find fault codes?

I am sure it is a simple misunderstanding too.


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## harpo1 (Dec 6, 2007)

I had a tankless system setting in my basement all set to be hooked up. Too many conflicting stories about rust and scale build-up affecting the performance of a tankless unit so I haven't done it yet. I had my well water tested and it's actually decent quality as far as wells go. I did install a whole-house filter between my well pump and water softener but I've yet to pull the trigger on the tankless system yet.

(Not to hyjack the post but, another question) Should the water going to the tankless system be run through a softener, or should I tee off the main line and bypass the softener? I know my refrigerator manual says to run un-softened water through my auto ice maker as the salt will corrode internal components. Would the same hold true for tankless water heaters?


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## PLUMMER47 (Dec 9, 2006)

Do not bypass the water softner. Flushing the tankless heater is very easy, its also required for tank type heaters too. just a different procedure. There is a reason you have to be certified to install Tankless water heaters, correct installation is very easy, but all too often DIY'ers miss the little details. Then when they have problems, its always the tankless never their install. Like I said before anyone who bad mouths a tankless is VERY uneducated on the product. They aren't for everyone and aren't always the best option. Not enuff water output is a COMPLETE myth, correct sizing and piping solves these issue's. If your on Propane or using electric currently, its a no brainer to choose tankless. ROI in 36 months, show me another appliance that even comes close. Natural gas applications take almost twice as long because of the cost per BTU of natural/vs. / electric & propane. Based on a 2500.00 install tankless versus 50 gallon electric @ 700.00.


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