# DNR Rules - Dog Training versus Dog Hunting



## H. Smith (Apr 1, 2017)

I was recently accosted by the DNR (and Brighton Rec. Stable worker) while chasing game (squirrel and possum) with my two dogs out in the Brighton Rec. area and was told that my dogs need to be on a 6ft leash. I was told that if I wanted my dogs to be off the leash that I had to take them to a state park that had a designated "field training area".

I contacted the DNR and it appears that want to play a game of semantics about "dog training" versus "dog hunting". I would like to hear from others as to what their understanding of these terms mean. I asked the DNR several times in email exchanges to define what they define as "training" and "hunting" and they refused to provide a definition. They would only repeat that the Brighton Rec. Area was not suitable for "training" without defining the term. Basically any use of a dog in their park is apparently deemed as "training".

The DNR officer told me that there was "pressure at the state level to get the dogs off the trails". My impression is that the horse riders (and Brighton Rec. Stable workers, run by the state) want exclusive access to that land that contains 18 miles of trails (Chilson Pond area) and they do not want to see any dogs off leash there and that is what this really all about.

Thanks in advance.


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## BassFisher91 (Sep 11, 2005)

Though I may not agree with it, I think the DNR was right on it. Brighton rec is not a state game area, therefore even for training purposes the dog has to be leashed, as is the rule for dogs in any state park (at least what I've seen). If Brighton rec was a SGA I think you'd be fine for running your dog unleashed. It looks like there are 4 SGA's / Wildlife areas in Livingston county. I'd pick one of those to run your dog. Or if you're close to a neighboring county look up the SGA's in that county.


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## BassFisher91 (Sep 11, 2005)

And I just realized I read your post wrong. I thought you were training, but you were hunting. Lol. Hmmm I'll have to look into it now.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

I got scolded for running and swimming my dogs off leash at Bald Mountain State Recreation. The problem was solved by moving out of the SLP.


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## Dead Bird (Oct 2, 2001)

*seems like it is open unless you are after a "season" closed prey....


Hunting*








Wildlife is abundant in the park and hunting is allowed during legal seasons.


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## Dead Bird (Oct 2, 2001)

*I hunt feral pigeon's with my pup April to April....

*Opossum*, *porcupine*, *weasel*,* red squirrel*, *skunk*, *ground squirrel*, *woodchuck*, *feral swine*, *feral pigeons*, *starling* and *house sparrows* may be taken year-round with a valid Michigan hunting license.


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## H. Smith (Apr 1, 2017)

Dead Bird said:


> *I hunt feral pigeon's with my pup April to April....
> 
> *Opossum*, *porcupine*, *weasel*,* red squirrel*, *skunk*, *ground squirrel*, *woodchuck*, *feral swine*, *feral pigeons*, *starling* and *house sparrows* may be taken year-round with a valid Michigan hunting license.


That is another area of contention. Here are the rules for hunting with dogs. Is your interpretation that you even need a hunting license or not?

---

Wildlife Conservation Order (Updated 03/10/2017)

Chapter VI Hunting with Dogs

6.3 Hunting with dogs, license requirement.

Sec 6.3 The following persons chasing or locating game with dogs during the open season for that game, except as provided in section *2.1a*, shall have a current valid hunting license for the game being chased or located:

(a) Any person possessing a firearm, crossbow, or bow and arrow.
(b) The owner, when present, of any dog chasing or locating bear or bobcat.

History: Eff. Mar 31, 1989; Am. 2, 1990, Eff. Feb 19, 1990; Am. 2, 2009, Eff. Mar 6, 2009, with a sunset provision regarding the use of the crossbow effective Mar 6, 2012; Am. 5, 2009, Eff. Apr 3, 2009; Am. 2, 2010, Eff. Feb 5, 2010; Am. 17, 2010, Eff. Aug 13, 2010.

Chapter II General Hunting and Trapping Regulations

*2.1a* Tracking by dogs; requirements.

(1) A dog may be used to locate a wounded deer or elk if the dog is kept on a leash and, subject to section 43510,
subsections (2) and (3), of part 435, hunting and fishing licensing, natural resources and environmental protection
act, 1994 PA 451, as amended, MCL 324.43510, none of the persons in attendance possess a firearm, crossbow or
bow and arrow, except as noted in 2.1a (2 ) and (3). If the tracking is done at night, artificial lights ordinarily
carried in the hand, or on the person, may be used. A dog that barks while tracking shall not be used on public
lands. The use of dogs to recover legally taken game does not authorize trespass.
(2) A licensed deer or elk hunter accompanying a dog tracker shall not have a live round in the chamber, a
cocked crossbow, or bow with nocked arrow, except at the time and point of kill.
(3) A licensed bear hunter accompanying a dog tracker outside of legal hunting hours shall not have a
loaded firearm, a cocked crossbow, or bow with nocked arrow except at the time and point of kill.
(4) Only a licensed hunter may dispatch and tag the wounded deer, elk, or bear.
(5) A dog tracker, when accompanying a licensed hunter, must comply with all the following:
(a) Tracker must successfully complete a basic tracking test as administered by a department approved organization and shall furnish such proof upon the request of a peace officer.
(b) Tracker has in his or her possession a license to carry a concealed pistol or is authorized to carrywithout obtaining a license to carry a concealed pistol under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435.
(c) Tracker must receive annual written authorization from the department’s law enforcement division priorto participation in activities involving the tracking of wounded animals.
(d) Tracker’s name, address, telephone number, and accompanying hunter’s license information must beprovided to the department’s report all poaching telephone number prior to initiating each tracking activity.
(e) Tracker must contact the department’s report all poaching telephone number within 12 hours of amortally wounded animal being dispatched or ending each tracking activity.
History: Am. 2, 2010, Eff. Feb 5, 2010; Am. 17, 2010, Eff. Aug 13, 2010.


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## H. Smith (Apr 1, 2017)

Luv2hunteup said:


> I got scolded for running and swimming my dogs off leash at Bald Mountain State Recreation. The problem was solved by moving out of the SLP.


Yes, that activity is essentially outlawed anywhere. What a 1984 world it is becoming when people cannot let their dogs take a swim in a lake. I have been hassled before in the park when there was no one in the park but me at a boat launch. These rules and regulations are driving away what little traffic they have these days. That Chilson park that I visit is essentially empty 99% of the time. God forbid a dog where to be in the water. Violation!


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## Dead Bird (Oct 2, 2001)

yes a license is required.... because I am hunting.... and a side note pigeons make a great soup...


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## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

Parks and Recreation areas are not state game areas, they are different and treated different.

For one parks n rec areas their is no shooting of firearms between April 1st through September 14th, with the exception if their is a early goose, or nuisance gees


Dead Bird said:


> *I hunt feral pigeon's with my pup April to April....
> 
> *Opossum*, *porcupine*, *weasel*,* red squirrel*, *skunk*, *ground squirrel*, *woodchuck*, *feral swine*, *feral pigeons*, *starling* and *house sparrows* may be taken year-round with a valid Michigan hunting license.


Not on Parks n Recreation areas. Closed to use of firearm from April 1st through September 14th, exception is if their is an early goose season or designated nuisance geese season, then it opens on day of that season. Usually in the past it has opened September 1st.

In Parks n Recreation areas dog training is only legal on designated field trial area with starter pistol, during April 1st through September 14th. If you want to use a firearm a permit is required.

On state game areas which was posted you can train year round except during nesting season. Lately it is April 16th through July 7th but these dates can and have been changed. Use to start Aug 1st, then July 15th and lately has been July 8th.

Even though Parks n Recreation areas are state land they are managed differently than state game areas, and state forest. It is very confusing, but Parks n Recreation areas offer many outdoor activities and safety is an issue but also they are trying to limit conflicts, and allow families, children and non hunters the opportunity to enjoy Michigans Natural Resources during this time frame.

Seeing the origination of this thread H Smith was done in March, my guess he was not dog training, because the original post states his dog was chasing squirrel, which is out of season and opossum, even though open year round does not have a designated season. If he was running a beagle chasing rabbits either hunting or training as long as he had a base license (small game license) and he had the required hunters orange, he would have been legal. Even if he had mutts and they confronted him, if he would have told him he was dog training on rabbits and was trying to break them from running squirrel, would have been sufficient. But both squirrel being out of season and opossum not having a designated season, is why they were in the right because he was on Parks n Recreation area not state game area.

H Smith call them back and ask if you can rabbit hunt and/or dog training on rabbits in that area up to the end of March, see what they say. Just for the record use to rabbit hunt that area just have to make sure your not within the safety zone as well.


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## H. Smith (Apr 1, 2017)

Hunters Edge said:


> H Smith call them back and ask if you can rabbit hunt and/or dog training on rabbits in that area up to the end of March, see what they say. Just for the record use to rabbit hunt that area just have to make sure your not within the safety zone as well.


Thanks for the detailed post. The incident happened in February, I just found time to look for a forum to discuss the issue now.



> Even though Parks n Recreation areas are state land they are managed differently than state game areas, and state forest. It is very confusing, but Parks n Recreation areas offer many outdoor activities and safety is an issue but also they are trying to limit conflicts, and allow families, children and non hunters the opportunity to enjoy Michigans Natural Resources during this time frame.


Do you have a link that you can share that details these differences? I did find this difference between state parks and recreation areas. I have not found where state game areas are different than recreation areas with designated hunting areas. If you could share that information I would appreciate it.

_*State Parks and Recreation Areas*

All state recreation areas are open to hunting unless designated closed and all state parks are closed to hunting unless designated open. Information on areas open and/or closed can be found in Chapter VII of the Wildlife Conservation Orders, or by contacting the individual park or recreation area.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10363_10913-31687--,00.html_

Training has a specific meaning and is different from hunting although there is no official delineation given by the DNR (that I can find or that the DNR will provide when asked this question several times in written corespondence). You cannot 'train' your dogs on rabbits (or any other game) anywhere outside of the designated field trial areas irrespective if the land is a state game area, a state park, or a recreation area. You can however hunt rabbits with dogs with or without firearms in any hunting area if they are in season (with the exception of the dates mentioned above to preserve ground nesting birds in zone 3). That much I have confirmed with the DNR. Training is only allowed in field trial areas, period.

As far as 'safety zones' go at that park, there is a tiny area the size of maybe a few football fields. Everything else is designated as a hunting area (Chilson Pond area not to be confused with the Bishop-Lake portion of the park). In the map that I posted, the Chilson Pond area is in the red circle. The barely perceptible area shown at right inside the circle is the safety area. 

The Chilson Pond trails do not allow any wheeled vehicles including bicycles. Basically the only way to access the Chilson Pond property is by horse or foot. Very few people actually hike there. I have been one of the few people that actually does hike there for the past 25 years. 

Essentially the entire Chilson Pond property, with the exception of the pond area and pavilions near it used for picnicking, are used only by equestrians and they do not like hunters and especially hunters with dogs, even during the winter (when I was accosted by a woman on a large commercial tractor from the horse stable) when they are not using it.

Many areas consisting of 100s each of acres have no trail system at all are located to the North-West. These are not even shown on the map above (or the DNR website) but are clearly designated as being part of the Brighton Rec. area with local signage and other maps. Those areas are not even open to horses, apparently only hunting (but not with dogs from April 16 through July 8).

_Michigan residents may train dogs on fox on state lands in Zone 3 (southern Lower Peninsula) during the closed season for dog training (April 16 through July 8) with written authorization from the Michigan Department of Natural Resources and Environment._

_http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-31574_31580_31711-230850--,00.html_

Good luck getting a permit however. Even though thousands of acres are not even used by the public, the Chilson Pond park manager said that this activity was 'not compatible' with the park (as in no where within in the 5,000 acres).


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## H. Smith (Apr 1, 2017)

> If he was running a beagle chasing rabbits either hunting or training as long as he had a base license (small game license) and he had the required hunters orange, he would have been legal. Even if he had mutts and they confronted him


I forgot to mention, I have two pit bull mixes. My female has a bit of American bulldog in her but she is skinny, lean, and fast. The male is a standard pit bull terrier breed, not too thick and also fast. Both are 2 years old. While I have heard many people talk down the breed so far as hunting goes, they are quite capable at chasing down just about anything. They are quite intelligent as well.


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## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

H. Smith said:


> I forgot to mention, I have two pit bull mixes. My female has a bit of American bulldog in her but she is skinny, lean, and fast. The male is a standard pit bull terrier breed, not too thick and also fast. Both are 2 years old. While I have heard many people talk down the breed so far as hunting goes, they are quite capable at chasing down just about anything. They are quite intelligent as well.


I do not think it was your dogs being pit bull, then again, if after rereading your post you were taking your dog hunting. Does that mean you allowed your dogs to chase, harass and kill the game they chased. If that is the case it may be illegal, especially if you left the game lay or allowed dogs to eat it or was unfit for table fare. There is also laws wanton waiste laws that are in affect. Hunting is not just about killing but putting food on the kitchen table, along with game management. Also even state land is in a county, and township with additional, leash laws. 

I am reading the post and think you did not have a hunting license, and or you did not have hunters orange, and you were going for a walk on the paths with your dogs running off leash. I could be wrong was not there, only trying to make sense.

Also like I mentioned over 30 years ago I hunted that area. Across the road was a building, may not be there now, safety zones are 450 ft from all occupied dwellings. 

In hunting situations with a dog in Michigan they are used to put game in front of the hunter. It is the hunters responsibility to harvest the animal, not the dogs. Either using a firearm or primitive weapon or a raptor, all of which needs license and rules to follow. 

Again I was not there but if dogs are off leash self hunting and you are not legally hunting with a license, and hunter orange. Not only are you breaking laws and are acceptable for tickets/prosecution but if you can not call your dog off chasing game or your dogs threaten the CO he has the right to put that dog down.

Not sure where your going with this thread but believe we are not getting all the facts.
1 Were you in possession of a small game license at the time?
2 Did you have hunters orange on?
3 Was your dogs killing game?
4 Did your dogs run up to stable or harassed horses on trail? 
5 Did your dogs threaten anyone that day?


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## H. Smith (Apr 1, 2017)

Where to begin with that over the top presumption of guilt? Did my dogs attack someone? Harass horses? I think that you are fantasizing here and I do not appreciate the tone of where you are going. I do have a hunting license, my dogs were not killing game, and I will not dignify the other preposterous fantasizing with a response. To suggest that I am out killing and having wanton waste on my hands is really over the top. Attacking people that disagree with your faulty assertions is petty at best.

As far as 'chasing and locating game' with dogs goes, I would like you to point me to that rule or law that states that hunting with dogs requires the wearing of hunter orange. Are you too inventing rules as you go too? Show me the rule. An actual reference would be appropriate here since you seem to be an expert on the rules.

I already showed you that I do not even need a hunting license (although I do hold one). Let me quote the rule, again:

*6.3 Hunting with dogs, license requirement.*

Sec 6.3 The following persons *chasing or locating game with dogs during the open season for that game*, *except as provided in section 2.1a*, shall have a current valid hunting license for the game being chased or located:

* (a) Any person possessing a firearm, crossbow, or bow and arrow.
(b) The owner, when present, of any dog chasing or locating bear or bobcat.*

History: Eff. Mar 31, 1989; Am. 2, 1990, Eff. Feb 19, 1990; Am. 2, 2009, Eff. Mar 6, 2009, with a sunset provision regarding the use of the crossbow effective Mar 6, 2012; Am. 5, 2009, Eff. Apr 3, 2009; Am. 2, 2010, Eff. Feb 5, 2010; Am. 17, 2010, Eff. Aug 13, 2010.

No where does it mention the requirement for hunter orange. Show me where you are pulling that from? The backside?

I already had this conversation with the DNR but let's hear from the expert here.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

Hunters orange requirements is in the hunting and trapping guide.page 16.Rabbit and squirrel season was open til march 31


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## H. Smith (Apr 1, 2017)

birdhntr said:


> Hunters orange requirements is in the hunting and trapping guide.page 16.Rabbit and squirrel season was open til march 31


Do you mean this one?

Hunter Orange Clothing Requirements
A person shall not take game during the established daylight shooting hours
from Aug. 15 through April 30 unless the person wears a cap, hat, vest, jacket,
or rain gear of hunter orange. Hunter orange includes camouflage that is not
less than 50 percent hunter orange. The garments that are hunter orange
shall be the hunter’s outermost garment and shall be visible from all sides of
the hunter.
Exception:
This does not apply to a person engaged in the taking of deer
with a bow or crossbow during archery deer season, a person taking bear
with a bow or crossbow, a person engaged in the taking of turkey, crow or
other migratory birds other than woodcock, a person engaged in the sport of
falconry, or a person who is stationary and in the act of hunting bobcat, coyote,
or fox.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

H. Smith said:


> Do you mean this one?
> 
> Hunter Orange Clothing Requirements
> A person shall not take game during the established daylight shooting hours
> ...


Yes


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## H. Smith (Apr 1, 2017)

birdhntr said:


> Yes


Ok, good, so we can agree that unless one is "taking game" that one need not wear hunter orange when is "chasing and locating" game.


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## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

H. Smith said:


> Where to begin with that over the top presumption of guilt? Did my dogs attack someone? Harass horses? I think that you are fantasizing here and I do not appreciate the tone of where you are going. I do have a hunting license, my dogs were not killing game, and I will not dignify the other preposterous fantasizing with a response. To suggest that I am out killing and having wanton waste on my hands is really over the top. Attacking people that disagree with your faulty assertions is petty at best.
> 
> As far as 'chasing and locating game' with dogs goes, I would like you to point me to that rule or law that states that hunting with dogs requires the wearing of hunter orange. Are you too inventing rules as you go too? Show me the rule. An actual reference would be appropriate here since you seem to be an expert on the rules.
> 
> ...


First off I was not attacking you. If there is a disagreement I still would not attack you, thus the reason for debate/forum. I am trying to find out what happened kind of like three stories with a disagreement, he said, she said and what actually happened. Sorry you took it that way, but if you had a license and wearing hunters orange, especially in February because squirrel season goes to March 1st. Which I might add was not given in your first post of the thread. I was trying to find out if anything else was left out, either intentually or by accident.

Yes you do need a valid hunting license. Only exception I know of is running on field trial grounds when rented out for training,testing, or trials.

Read the exceptions on not wearing hunters orange, dog training is not listed in the exceptions. I believe the dates are a typo or error but is anytime or all year unless listed in the exceptions.

It actually in the past was listed in the guide under dog training. Now they are using the hunters orange as a blanket in the guide. Note the guide is not all the laws but a brief summary. So the hunters orange for dog training may have been reversed but doubt it for safety reasons.


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## H. Smith (Apr 1, 2017)

Hunters Edge said:


> First off I was not attacking you. If there is a disagreement I still would not attack you, thus the reason for debate/forum. I am trying to find out what happened kind of like three stories with a disagreement, he said, she said and what actually happened. Sorry you took it that way, but if you had a license and wearing hunters orange, especially in February because squirrel season goes to March 1st. Which I might add was not given in your first post of the thread. I was trying to find out if anything else was left out, either intentually or by accident.
> 
> Yes you do need a valid hunting license. Only exception I know of is running on field trial grounds when rented out for training,testing, or trials.
> 
> Read the exceptions on not wearing hunters orange, dog training is not listed in the exceptions. I believe the dates are a typo or error but is anytime or all year unless listed in the exceptions.


No worries. I am not sure if you caught the earlier post, at the beginning, where the DNR officer at the park told me there was "pressure at the state level to get the dogs off the trails". That is what happened, I was basically harassed by state worker at the stable (in the International tractor) and was threatened by the DNR officer at the park with citations for not following the rules, that I have already demonstrated I was following. I have already settled the matter with higher ups at the DNR (in my situation).

One of the main reasons that I came to the forum was to get perspective from hunters who use dogs and to discuss this tricky area of "training" versus "hunting". To ask what their impression of these terms was, hunting versus training. I certainly did not come here to troll or argue with anyone. I do not have the time for that. I want to have a rational discussion and polite debate over DNR rules and regulations only.

As to the wearing orange requirement, if you read the rule again, it clearly states "if you are taking game". In the "Hunting with Dogs" rules, it states clearly that "chasing and locating game" (in season) is a hunting activity (more below on training). I have already exchanged communication with the DNR and they never objected to this. You do not need to wear hunter orange unless A) You are hunting with a weapon B) You are taking game.

From my exchanges with the DNR the word "training" is a loaded word. Their perception is that "training" (of any form) is a special activity that can only be performed at designated parks with field trial area. Training is not permitted anywhere other than these locations. I was basically accused of training but that does not match the rules and definitions.

Now you cannot get much clearer than the rules under "Hunting with Dogs" under this link:

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10366_37141-120756--,00.html

It is two page of easy reading.

As for Training, this is clearly outlined here:

Chapter XIV, "Dog Training"

14.1 Dog training, defined.
Sec. 14.1 For the purposes of this chapter, "training" or "dog training" means to chase or locate game with dogs *outside of the open season for that game.*
History: Am. 2, 1990, Eff. Feb 19, 1990

So at no point in time was I "training" dogs by chasing game out of season. The very definition is chasing or locating game outside of the open season, which I was not doing at any time.

The fact is that I was run out of the park by the DNR because, in reality, someone (probably the horse riding folks) wanted to get the "dogs off the trails" and the rules and laws be damned in that process. Most people would have walked away with their tail between their legs. I am not one of those people.


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## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

H. Smith said:


> No worries. I am not sure if you caught the earlier post, at the beginning, where the DNR officer at the park told me there was "pressure at the state level to get the dogs off the trails". That is what happened, I was basically harassed by state worker at the stable (in the International tractor) and was threatened by the DNR officer at the park with citations for not following the rules, that I have already demonstrated I was following. I have already settled the matter with higher ups at the DNR (in my situation).
> 
> One of the main reasons that I came to the forum was to get perspective from hunters who use dogs and to discuss this tricky area of "training" versus "hunting". To ask what their impression of these terms was, hunting versus training. I certainly did not come here to troll or argue with anyone. I do not have the time for that. I want to have a rational discussion and polite debate over DNR rules and regulations only.
> 
> ...


So if you were hunting? You may want to take it a step further? 

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10366_37141-34924--,00.html

If time is a factor which you mentioned in a post. Taking it to this level with time for court, may not be of interest. On the other hand not sure if you can get an officer to cite another officer either. It sure would make the headlines eh? DNR officer cited or even charged with hunter harassment.


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## H. Smith (Apr 1, 2017)

Hunters Edge said:


> So if you were hunting? You may want to take it a step further?
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10366_37141-34924--,00.html
> 
> If time is a factor which you mentioned in a post. Taking it to this level with time for court, may not be of interest. On the other hand not sure if you can get an officer to cite another officer either. It sure would make the headlines eh? DNR officer cited or even charged with hunter harassment.


In my exchanges with the DNR that is exactly where it was headed. It was clearly harassment. I can post more about this later. Just do not let them running you off the hunting lands telling you that you are "training", that is a loaded word and they play word games. Stick to your guns and know the rules.


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

H. Smith said:


> (5) A dog tracker, when accompanying a licensed hunter, must comply with all the following:
> (a) Tracker must successfully complete a basic tracking test as administered by a department approved organization and shall furnish such proof upon the request of a peace officer.
> (b)_ Tracker has in his or her possession a license to carry a concealed pistol or is authorized to carry without obtaining a license to carry a concealed pistol under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435._
> (c) Tracker must receive annual written authorization from the department’s law enforcement division prior to participation in activities involving the tracking of wounded animals.
> ...


Geez. I guess I'm a criminal.


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## Ray Adams (Feb 17, 2006)

H. Smith said:


> I was recently accosted by the DNR (and Brighton Rec. Stable worker) while chasing game (squirrel and possum) with my two dogs out in the Brighton Rec. area and was told that my dogs need to be on a 6ft leash. I was told that if I wanted my dogs to be off the leash that I had to take them to a state park that had a designated "field training area".
> 
> I contacted the DNR and it appears that want to play a game of semantics about "dog training" versus "dog hunting". I would like to hear from others as to what their understanding of these terms mean. I asked the DNR several times in email exchanges to define what they define as "training" and "hunting" and they refused to provide a definition. They would only repeat that the Brighton Rec. Area was not suitable for "training" without defining the term. Basically any use of a dog in their park is apparently deemed as "training".
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, the closer society moves toward city-dwelling, the further they get from hunting, and the less they understand it.

I watched a great film called "The Eagle Huntress" with my kids the other day. You should have heard the gasps and retches when this golden eagle tore into a sheep. It was like none of the folks in the theater had ever handled raw meat before. 

Are these people only buying Gorton's fish sticks and Tyson chicken nuggets? Who knows. Either way, humanity offers neither love nor support for what they don't understand, and that's a fact.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

The all eat chicken but if I was to butcher one and put it on a plate they would.And I feel since they are so disconnected that they have no problem throwing out chicken.(wasteful).


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## gundogguy (Oct 5, 2008)

Take'em to a dairy farm if they saw what milk production looked like they quit drinking milk eating cheese and ice cream. 
I was 5 yrs old when I milked by hand one of Gramps cows. Ha!
Oh and by the way chocolate milk does not come from brown cows Ha!


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## PA BUCK 2 (Oct 17, 2006)

gundogguy said:


> Take'em to a dairy farm if they saw what milk production looked like they quit drinking milk eating cheese and ice cream.
> I was 5 yrs old when I milked by hand one of Gramps cows. Ha!
> Oh and by the way chocolate milk does not come from brown cows Ha!


LOL- just took my kids to one of the largest farms in SEMI- 2900 head- milk them three times a day. My kids spent almost 3 hours there learning how things worked... pretty cool to see the wheels turning in their heads..


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## jdcherry (May 31, 2012)

Whether or not you actually shoot a rabbit or squirrel "taking it", if you are hunting them, you still need to wear hunter orange.


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## micooner (Dec 20, 2003)

I


jdcherry said:


> Whether or not you actually shoot a rabbit or squirrel "taking it", if you are hunting them, you still need to wear hunter orange.


It seems the poster wants to have it both ways. Im letting my dog off leash to chase animals but I'm not training nor hunting. So what are you doing ? A non dog person would say you are harrassing wildlife which is against the law. Jmho


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## jdcherry (May 31, 2012)

micooner said:


> I
> 
> It seems the poster wants to have it both ways. Im letting my dog off leash to chase animals but I'm not training nor hunting. So what are you doing ? A non dog person would say you are harrassing wildlife which is against the law. Jmho


Yeah its not entirely clear to me. It sounds like he might not have been wearing hunter Orange. In which case, if you are hunting small game then a CO would be able to issue a ticket, or if you are not hunting small game, well then you are not hunting small game.


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## gundogguy (Oct 5, 2008)

Over the years training sporting dogs of all stripes, needed to haul much equipment depending the variety of dogs being trained. Very thank-ful I never had haul a lawyer type when training on private grounds. No wonder the sport is not growing, to much legalese.


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## michgundog (Feb 22, 2008)

Yeah state rec areas and state game areas fall under diff guidelines. I had a similar debate with a bow hunter who didn't think dogs are allowed on state rec areas. My impression as long as your not out there running your dogs during quiet time the CO's on my area are understanding. But no matter what always wear hunters orange if your on either.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

michgundog said:


> Yeah state rec areas and state game areas fall under diff guidelines. I had a similar debate with a bow hunter who didn't think dogs are allowed on state rec areas. My impression as long as your not out there running your dogs during quiet time the CO's on my area are understanding. But no matter what always wear hunters orange if your on either.


So when I'm training my dogs in the springtime (closed season) on upland birds I should be wearing hunters Orange requirements?I never have and would like to know.


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## michgundog (Feb 22, 2008)

birdhntr said:


> So when I'm training my dogs in the springtime (closed season) on upland birds I should be wearing hunters Orange requirements?I never have and would like to know.



Depends if your on private I would say no, but state especially Highland or Lapeer it would be wise. Even though the CO's are cracking fish in it there's target shooters all year long shooting at the state land by my house.


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