# Trial of the century?



## Not far from beer

I heard it is over but my source is being a dick and won't tell me who won!

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## Pez Gallo

It is over, but being a fellow Dick I'm gonna let ya hang like your buddy.lol

Have a good day, Pez

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## standsetter

Pez Gallo said:


> It is over, but being a fellow Dick I'm gonna let ya hang like your buddy.lol
> 
> Have a good day, Pez
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Anyone with half a brain would know. No one got paid but the lawyers. :lol:


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## wintrrun

standsetter said:


> Anyone with half a brain would know. No one got paid but the lawyers. :lol:


 
YEp!
Theres winners!
Theres Losers!
and then theres the lawyers! $$$$$:lol:$$$$$


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## Not far from beer

I just want my case of beer from our bet


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## Munsterlndr

I heard a rumor that one of the parties has fled the state and is on the lam in Ohio! :yikes:


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## William H Bonney

I'm dyin' over here!! :lol:


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## wintrrun

Munsterlndr said:


> I heard a rumor that one of the parties has fled the state and is on the lam in Ohio! :yikes:


 
That might explain why i just saw the mantracker film crew and horse trailer heading South on US23.


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## Nocturnal Ghost

I heard Bio offered the plaintiff "that was sweating like he was hinge cutting trees in July" some scent buster dust to combat the sweaty witness box smell.:lol:


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## Pez Gallo

wintrrun said:


> That might explain why i just saw the manhunter film crew and horse trailer heading South on US23.


Is it aiding and abetting if the perp is frail and over sixty? Or is it cruel and unusual punishment on my part for having him hunt hills with no habit work done whatsoever?

Either way I may be screwed.lol

Have a good day, Pez


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## Not far from beer

Soooo who won I'm thirsty!


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## William H Bonney

Not far from beer said:


> Soooo who won I'm thirsty!
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Early reporting has TL out in front.


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## S.B. Walleyes&Waterfowl

wintrrun said:


> That might explain why i just saw the mantracker film crew and horse trailer heading South on US23.


The Mantracker, hahaha :lol:!!! That's awsome! "Know the land, know your prey!"


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## bioactive

Munsterlndr said:


> I heard a rumor that one of the parties has fled the state and is on the lam in Ohio! :yikes:


:lol:

Hiding out in a holler and celebrating a beautiful Ohio evening.


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## anonymous7242016

Well the W.A.S. site is still up and running so.................


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## William H Bonney

bucksnbows said:


> Well the W.A.S. site is still up and running so.................


The patent office rushed that one through...


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## bioactive

bucksnbows said:


> Well the W.A.S. site is still up and running so.................


And we have some great videos coming up of Jake doing post-season scouting.


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## bioactive

standsetter said:


> Anyone with half a brain would know. No one got paid but the lawyers. :lol:


As usual standsetter...you are right on the money...pun intended...:lol:.


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## bioactive

FYI before the thread is closed. The judge summarily dismissed all complaints against all parties yesterday.


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## walleyedude

bioactive said:


> FYI before the thread is closed. The judge summarily dismissed all complaints against all parties yesterday.


Congrats if there is actually a winner in this case. It should of never went as far as it did.


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## gillcommander

Does that mean we get all of the ULM double top secrets for free now? :help:


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## wintrrun

walleyedude said:


> Congrats if there is actually a winner in this case. It should of never went as far as it did.


I agree.
Hunting and the knowledge gained and shared has no place in a courtroom.


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## Not far from beer

gillcommander said:


> Does that mean we get all of the ULM double top secrets for free now? :help:


There was never was any double top secretes that was the beauty of his marketing.


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## FISHMANMARK

bioactive said:


> FYI before the thread is closed. The judge summarily dismissed all complaints against all parties yesterday.


 
Does that mean the confidentiality agreements were not enforceable?


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## anonymous7242016

FISHMANMARK said:


> Does that mean the confidentiality agreements were not enforceable?


Ya really? How does the decision effect boot camp attendees? Can I post pics without the fear of a law suite? Can we have habitat days or show others how to hinge cut etc? 

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## brushbuster

Glad to hear that bio sorry you folks had to go through it.


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## swampbuck

Bummer, This could have been a great topic for the long boring summer.....And possibly affected the future direction of that industry.

Dismissed, What a copout!


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## tomtrombone

I think the biggest crime is people paying for a site like was. Actually it's not a crime, I just feel sorry for the suckers who eat that garbage up. Better get some magic pixie dust.:lol:


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## TVCJohn

FISHMANMARK said:


> Does that mean the confidentiality agreements were not enforceable?


Great question! I wondered about that too.


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## TVCJohn

swampbuck said:


> Bummer, This could have been a great topic for the long boring summer.....And possibly affected the future direction of that industry.
> 
> Dismissed, What a copout!


Me thinks if the complaints were dismissed, that tells me they were found without merit. Otherwise the judge would have kept proceding with the complaints.


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## motdean

brushbuster said:


> Glad to hear that bio sorry you folks had to go through it.


 
Amen.

BB,
We have agreed twice in the same week.

I ought to be buying lottery tickets......


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## brushbuster

What the hells up with that. Usually no one agrees with me

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## Liver and Onions

swampbuck said:


> Bummer, This could have been a great topic for the long boring summer............!


:lol::lol:

L & O


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## QDMAMAN

> brushbuster said:
> 
> 
> 
> What the hells up with that. Usually no one agrees with me
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Click to expand...

Not true.


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## Rainman68

Does this mean BIO won't be getting that free invite to boot camp like past years?


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## MichiganMan24

Good to hear Bio, hopefully some common ground was met, and both companies can continue successful businesses.

On a side note - Bio did you kill a buck this year? What about Jake? Any pics?


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## KPC

First O.J....

then Casey...

now this.

What is this world coming to?

:nono:

KPC


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## QDMAMAN

> KPC said:
> 
> 
> 
> First O.J....
> 
> then Casey...
> 
> now this.
> 
> 
> KPC
Click to expand...

Yup! All killers.


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## KPC

QDMAMAN said:


> Yup! All killers.


Yep, they all vehemently denied it, and the only thing diffferent is what died.

:lol:

KPC


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## hunterrep

Anti climatic for sure, but I'm glad it is over and that it was found without basis. Now maybe we can get down to some good discussions about APR's.:SHOCKED::evilsmile


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## koz bow

After what I have been through. Why would ANYONE sign one of his agreements????



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## KalamazooKid

koz bow said:


> After what I have been through. Why would ANYONE sign one of his agreements????


This!


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## wintrrun

koz bow said:


> After what I have been through. Why would ANYONE sign one of his agreements????


 
Thats the 64 million dollar question.
Only time will tell but i don't see alot of people following this case that are just going to jump on the ULM Train without looking at other possibilities.
Word travels and incidents like these find there way into conversation in places you and i would not think possible.
He'll survive but will have a limp.


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## WMU05

koz bow said:


> Regarding insurance and recouping costs. Unless you let your insurance company.represent you from day one, you will not be able to claim it.
> 
> I was not willing to defend myself and my family that way.
> 
> I lose. Everyone loses except the attorneys. The insurance company did not have to fight the ludicrous battle for me.


While this may have been the case with your carrier, it is not a universal truth. I handled a claim where I reimbursed individuals who incurred out of pocket defense costs for over a year of litigation before they became aware that their insurance policy may have applied to the situation. I then hired counsel to handle the remainder of the case. 

I think it is important for others to realize that if they find themselves in the same situation they may have an avenue to help prevent personal financial ruin. People pay damn good money for insurance and should avail themselves of the protection it affords. 

Again, I am really sorry for the BS you had to go through, and am in no way trying to question how you handled it...more just trying to provide a PSA for others. I'm also going to try and hit up "The Buck" with the family one of these days on a trip from Chicago back to Michigan. I'll buy you a beer if you're in.


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## ih772

koz bow said:


> After what I have been through. Why would ANYONE sign one of his agreements????
> 
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


I totally agree. 

You got the shaft Koz! Karma will catch up with TL and his wife and they will go through even greater misery than they put you through.


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## hartman756

koz bow said:


> After what I have been through. Why would ANYONE sign one of his agreements????
> 
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


 

Sadly koz, many still will thinking they have nothing to worry about!!:sad:



c hartman


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## Hawgleg

People need to stop drinking the KOOL-AID


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## CHASINEYES

Our judicial system is in need of major overhaul. (Prevenative maintenance). TL should be footing the bill, not koz and his family. What a POS, he needs a good thumping... Sorry to hear of this koz. 

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## miruss

bucksnbows said:


> Neither has Randy and Jake has been doing the same thing as TL for just as long. He started with his own property and then that turned into a business (not W.A.S.) ............just like TL. They do exactly the same thing (habitat wise) but Jake just doesn't use the word "Ultimate" to describe everything.


Koz i feel for you you should have never got drug into this mess !! And according to bnb randy and jake never went to one of his classes . Someone in there little group must have went to his class otherwise there never would have been a lawsuit. So it sounds like they need to pick who they go into business with better so this wouldn't happen.


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## QDMAMAN

miruss said:


> And according to bnb randy and jake never went to one of his classes . Someone in there little group must have went to his class otherwise there never would have been a lawsuit. So it sounds like they need to pick who they go into business with better so this wouldn't happen.


Come on miruss, the judge dismissed the case for a damn good reason, because it had no merit.
Your underlying insult of bio is out of line when you have little, to no, history or information concerning this case to make these kinds of comments.
From where I stand TL's biggest issues aren't from outside influences they're from within and he's going to get a real eye opener in the near future, if he hasn't already.


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## NT179

My wife and I spent two years in court on a adoption case. It cost us 30,000 dollars.The fact the birth father had several assault charges against the mother was ilerevent in the case but our sex life was!When things make sense ,I get nervous now. Best to you and your family Koz.


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## William H Bonney

miruss said:


> Koz i feel for you you should have never got drug into this mess !! And according to bnb randy and jake never went to one of his classes . Someone in there little group must have went to his class otherwise there never would have been a lawsuit. So it sounds like they need to pick who they go into business with better so this wouldn't happen.


I feel for the guy as well, since this EXACT thing has happened to me,, classic case of "wrong place, wrong time". Russ' post also reminds me of what my parents would always say when I got in trouble,,, _"see,, I told you not to hang out with those guys". _ (even though I was innocent all the time :lol: )

As for the business aspect of it, any time a CA is introduced and you're asked to sign it, light bulbs should go off immediately, especially if it involves so called "friends", or "friends of friends". Honestly, if I were TL, I woulda been pretty PO'd as well, not sure I would have brought litigation forward, but there definitely woulda been some strongly worded phone calls and emails basically stating,, _" dude, seriously,, W T H? ". _ 

The other issue in my opinion boils down to an ethical business issue and what you personally deem acceptable. For instance,, I make ice-fishing jigs and spoons... Not that any of my work could stand up to his, but the last thing I'm going to do is throw up an ad on here in direct competition with Harry. I wouldn't even know how to solder a hook correctly, if it wasn't for him taking the time through PM's to explain everything to me. Personally, I just couldn't do that to _anyone_, it's such a crappy thing to do to someone.


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## NoWake

I've spent almost my whole life in Branch County and over the years heard several stories about shady behavior from that individual. Some of the past Ultimate cheerleaders had me convinced those rumors must have been based solely on jealousy because he was such a wonderful generous angel. Looks like maybe some true colors have been exposed. 

Also makes me wonder about his claims on how bad his neighbors were and their trespassing habits. 

I feel terrible for Koz Bow and the other completely innocent bystanders. Although, I'm guessing if the focus would have been focused down to one individual, the case might have not been dismissed so quickly.


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## Pez Gallo

Not far from a beer, are you buying or is your buddy?

Have a good day, Pez


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## Not far from beer

Pez Gallo said:


> Not far from a beer, are you buying or is your buddy?
> 
> Have a good day, Pez
> 
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


 My buddy is buying. 




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## Not far from beer

NoWake said:


> I've spent almost my whole life in Branch County and over the years heard several stories about shady behavior from that individual. Some of the past Ultimate cheerleaders had me convinced those rumors must have been based solely on jealousy because he was such a wonderful generous angel. Looks like maybe some true colors have been exposed.
> 
> Also makes me wonder about his claims on how bad his neighbors were and their trespassing habits.


 There was a poster on here that was blasted for doing his homework and talking to tl neighbors before spending his money on bc only to find that he leased all of their ground, and alot of his public claims about them were baseless. maybe that guy should be unbanned??? 




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## Not far from beer

I Wonder if Lapratt and Rompola share more then a friendship? maybe they have the same marketing/business company representing them.


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## Not far from beer

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## Nakoma

Just out of curiosity does anyone have a copy of the agreement that boot camp participants are required to sign? Do you receive a copy of this to review before you pay for the course and before you show up?


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## Trophy Specialist

Jeff Sturgis said:


> I was referred a KS client by WAS last year...and thanked WAS in writing early in 2012. To me...information has equaled 2 things:
> 
> 1. A LOT of fun and friendships spread across man states over many, many years.
> 2. And more clients...
> 
> The more information shared, the more clients and fun Carry on!
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Yup. 

I certainly don't have to worry about Jeff suing me over me telling other people about his secrets. My guess is that the more people, including myself talk about Jeff, the more business he gets. I have never heard anybody ever complain about Jeff's business practices.

I do the same thing with my businesses to by giving out and encouraging the spreading of information to the max. Despite an unfavorable economy in the region, I've had to turn away business from both my charter and taxidermy businesses because I'm too busy, so I guess that philosophy hasn't hurt. It also makes life more enjoyable helping people to have fun without all the drama.


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## swampbuck

So now that he dont have any secrets legally, Maybe one of the Boot Campers can tell us the "secrets" of the Ultimate buck beds.

Maybe we should have a thread titled "what did you learn at boot camp"


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## StevenJ

swampbuck said:


> Maybe one of the Boot Campers can tell us the "secrets" of the Ultimate buck beds.


"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." The Usual Suspects.

The greatest trick TL ever pulled was convincing you there were secrets of the Ultimate Buck Beds.


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## Riva

swampbuck said:


> So now that he dont have any secrets legally, Maybe one of the Boot Campers can tell us the "secrets" of the Ultimate buck beds.
> 
> Maybe we should have a thread titled "what did you learn at boot camp"


Here's a "secret", somethin I lernt, and been fairly effective ever sinse


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## anonymous7242016

swampbuck said:


> So now that he dont have any secrets legally, Maybe one of the Boot Campers can tell us the "secrets" of the Ultimate buck beds.
> 
> Maybe we should have a thread titled "what did you learn at boot camp"


The following are videos on how to make a buck bed. These will work and work well. Where to put buck beds on your property will depend on your property. If you search around you can find info to help you make those decisions. Jeff Sturgis has blogs on the subject and a book about it too. You can watch these videos then go pay TL $800 and decide if there is a difference.........Or you can see what others do, since there are plenty of pictures of bedding areas on the net, plenty of discussion and figure out what seems to work the best.........or pay TL and decide if there is a difference. There could be, there may not be, but I can't tell you. What I can tell you though is what anyone can find with a little work........for free.

Or you could join WAS for a small price and learn how to do all kinds of things without figuring out what works and what doesn't:lol:





 




 




 

.....and so you understand hinge cutting the following will help. Note things mentioned in the video are pretty common topics discussed openly on MS and many other sites, books, and videos. Also the methods of how to hinge cut a tree are not a secret or taught by TL.





 

It took me about 10 minutes to pull up all this info. Granted I knew about them prior but they are the top hits on the search I did on youtube:lol:

Maybe TL should put some vids up on youtube


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## William H Bonney

Some interesting reading here:

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359635&highlight=Tony+Lapratt&page=5

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=374493&highlight=Tony+Lapratt


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## Whitetail Freak

William H Bonney said:


> Some interesting reading here:
> 
> http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359635&highlight=Tony+Lapratt&page=5
> 
> http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=374493&highlight=Tony+Lapratt


Some definately have short term memory loss. Reminds me of a bunch of middleschool girls.


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## smith34

What you pay for at Boot Camp isn't secrets, but rather, 2 days of taking all the facts (available for free on the internet and books) and being shown examples done correctly of how they work and why they work. It also shows the how and why and where to apply certain techniques. It's not groundbreaking info, but rather another way to learn to put all the puzzle pieces together. The value in it all, it that it is 2 days of 'this is what works' rather than having to sort thru the internet and deciphering if what you are reading is correct or just someone on a soapbox, pulling things out of his :SHOCKED:! Basically, the same thing W.A.S. does, but packed into one weekend and live rather than on video that you can go back to for reference or watch over again. Bootcamp is just another way/place to learn and was really critical before more and more info became available on the internet.


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## wintrrun

Whitetail Freak said:


> Some definately have short term memory loss. Reminds me of a bunch of middleschool girls.


 

Yep. 
One day it's Boyz to Men and the next its Justin Bieber.
If you ain't part of the latest and greatest than your not in the cool peoples club.:lol:


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## gillcommander

wintrrun said:


> Yep.
> One day it's Boyz to Men and the next its Justin Bieber.
> If you ain't part of the latest and greatest than your not in the cool peoples club.:lol:


I'm not cool...I don't like The Bieb!


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## StevenJ

smith34 said:


> What you pay for at Boot Camp isn't secrets, but rather, 2 days of taking all the facts (available for free on the internet and books) and being shown examples done correctly of how they work and why they work. It also shows the how and why and where to apply certain techniques. It's not groundbreaking info, but rather another way to learn to put all the puzzle pieces together. The value in it all, it that it is 2 days of 'this is what works' rather than having to sort thru the internet and deciphering if what you are reading is correct or just someone on a soapbox, pulling things out of his......


It's called bootcamp for a reason. Do you think military recruits can sit around and look up basic training on the internet and then report for duty?

Two days of intensive discussion about 150 valuable techniques for bowhunting whitetails in a beautiful 50 acre property, set up with over 20 years of fine fine habitat work. What's not to like except the price?

Why do families go and spend more money for a trip to Disneyland with the kids? Because it is all in fun for a few days!

The price for the two days is pretty modest for the value. (It's about 1/4 of the check I just wrote to send my wife and teenage son to Cancun for a luxury senior Spring break. :yikes



Whitetail Freak said:


> Some definately have short term memory loss.


Some of us have long term memory gain.




wintrrun said:


> Yep.
> One day it's Boyz to Men and the next its Justin Bieber.
> If you ain't part of the latest and greatest than your not in the cool peoples club.



Some of us don't regret in the least attending bootcamp at full price. 
Things change including the sentiment of this thread after a lawsuit ensued. Can you think of anyone that has posted that they regret going except for THEONLYDOE. Or Ken today?

I ask this question: If you had a buddy that helps you out with habitat work, would you rather he did or did not attend bootcamp in the past? 

Plenty of people have attended and have sung TL's praises in the past before being sued. So what, they are some of the more motivated at deer hunting and habitat management. You get stung by a bee, you don't sing praises for the bee.


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## William H Bonney

I only posted those links for the entertainment value, like most of us posting, we don't have a dog in this fight. 

I just found it somewhat amusing that people would pay $800 bucks (some probably more since they attended multiple times) for something that they could find on YouTube in 10 minutes from the comfort of their LazyBoy.


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## smith34

StevenJ said:


> Some of us don't regret in the least attending bootcamp at full price.
> Things change including the sentiment of this thread after a lawsuit ensued. Can you think of anyone that has posted that they regret going except for THEONLYDOE. Or Ken


I agree. I dont regret going, nor feel i didnt get my moneys worth. A GOOD education is valuable and people have a hard time putting a number on it because everyone has different factors that make it worth more or less to them. I believe the lawsuit has brought up skeptisim and questions that were never prevelant before. Combine that with the fact that there are now similar options out there from guys like jake, jeff and even tours by bish and youve got guys weighing their options.


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## hunterrep

William H Bonney said:


> I only posted those links for the entertainment value, like most of us posting, we don't have a dog in this fight.
> 
> I just found it somewhat amusing that people would pay $800 bucks (some probably more since they attended multiple times) for something that they could find on YouTube in 10 minutes from the comfort of their LazyBoy.


Really nothing amusing about it at all. Read smith34 post #204. I think he explained very well why some would spend that kind of money to gain knowledge and make sure they do things right. Think about it, at $3,000/acre, guys have a lot of money invested in their hunting property. Paying another $800 to get your habitat plan kick started is chump change in the big picture. 
I wouldn't trade the information I gained from BC for anything. At the time it was invaluable. But the bee stung me too.


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## StevenJ

smith34 said:


> Combine that with the fact that there are now similar options out there from guys like jake, jeff and even tours by bish and youve got guys weighing their options.



It is not a zero sum game. We all win when someone divulges deer and deer habitat info, whether for a price or not.

I'm not trying to defend TL's actions. I just jumped in to parry the silly comments. I have an acquaintance with all of those sued and those mentioned above. I have refrained from significant comments because all of them are outstanding guys. Bioactive is an outstanding contributor to this forum and a great guy. He plain and simply does not divulge proprietary information he obtained from bootcamp to make a profit off of someone else's knowledge.


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## William H Bonney

hunterrep said:


> Really nothing amusing about it at all. Read smith34 post #204. I think he explained very well why some would spend that kind of money to gain knowledge and make sure they do things right. Think about it, at $3,000/acre, guys have a lot of money invested in their hunting property. Paying another $800 to get your habitat plan kick started is chump change in the big picture.
> I wouldn't trade the information I gained from BC for anything. At the time it was invaluable. But the bee stung me too.


I'm with ya, I believe ya, it probably is quite a bargain for what you learn. I just find it ironic that the tune changed,,, only after this lawsuit was brought forth.


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## Riva

Thinking out loud...I wonder how many boot-camp attendees indeed received a discount and/or paid nothing whatsoever in order for a class to always appear to be "sold out?"

Thinking out loud...I wonder how many people would now attend this fellow's boot camp with the subliminal fear that the teacher could sue the pupil?

Thinking out loud...I wonder what the reaction will be if, going forward, an attendee refused to sign the non-disclosure? 

Thinking out loud...I wonder if those named in the suit will seek legal remedy if they know that their chances of collecting meaningful damages rests somewhere between slim and none (no assets, no insurance)?

Thinking out loud...I wonder if those named in the suit, as well as others working in this specialized channel, consider what impact this incestuous suit/counter-suit behavior will have on consumers, as well as the future of their "industry"?


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## standsetter

farmlegend said:


> I would say there's a couple material flaws with what you suggest.
> 
> 1. Of course, there's employees, payroll taxes,...


That was so 20 years ago Rip. While you were sleeping, our State Legislature banned employees and payroll taxes. Something about creating a better business environment or some such thing.


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## johnhunter

Federal payroll tax = 15.3% of gross pay. 12.4% FICA, 2.9% medicare.

Or zero if you choose to run the risk of not paying them.


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## standsetter

farmlegend said:


> Federal payroll tax = 15.3% of gross pay. 12.4% FICA, 2.9% medicare.
> 
> Or zero if you choose to run the risk of not paying them.


My bad, I forgot to remember, Romney lost. Guess those plans will have to be shelved until the next Republican primary. :lol:


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## QDMAMAN

> StevenJ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some of us don't regret in the least attending bootcamp at full price.
> Things change including the sentiment of this thread after a lawsuit ensued. Can you think of anyone that has posted that they regret going except for THEONLYDOE. Or Ken today?
Click to expand...

Exactly, I enjoyed my BC experience as well as multiple property consults with TL on several different properties including my own. My total outly BTW, was $400.00. I purchased my BC from a friend that bought it as a Live Auction item at a QDMA banquet, I paid him what he paid for it (he had already attended once before). My sight evaluation was gratis.
What has changed for me is TL's actions toward my friends despite my intervening on their behalf. This coupled with TL's unfounded thread to sue me as well as his total false recollection of conversations he and I had, and false and embelished comments in the deposition to use me as an "example", were off base and unforgiveable.
I have employed what I had learned at BC and will continue as planned, like I've said a million times before, once you start the work it is never completed.
I have long since abandoned promoting TL's business or defending him here, or anywhere else, however I will give an honest assessment, when it's solicited, of what I learned at BC from TL as well as what I learned from recent events.
I'm saddened by what has taken place. I don't know Randy, but the rest of the people involved are/were friends including TL, and I feel betrayed that he (TL) felt he had to lie about me and my motives.

T


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