# Huron River Flow



## ericz (Nov 25, 2002)

Hey Guys,

To anyone that's noticed the flow rates are just a "bit" off again this year, we're starting to keep logs and observations to try and determine just what's going on down there. 

To me the river below belleville doesn't seem to follow what mother nature's doing to the rest of it. I've seen it rain like heck only to find the lower river at the same level as before the rains. Other times it's up and muddy for no reason what-so-ever.

Thanks,
Eric


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## gunrod (Jan 16, 2001)

Has anyone gotten a copy of the court order mentioned? That may be key. No matter how many people sign petitions and who says what, it may take another court order showing damage to the river from the previous court order to get things changed.


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## Woolybugger (Feb 26, 2001)

What is the function of the Belleville and Flatrock dams? Are they producing electricity?


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## YPSIFLY (Feb 13, 2001)

Belleville produces power while Flat Rock dam does not. The dam in FR used to generate power, but hasn't in decades.


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## Woolybugger (Feb 26, 2001)

There is a dam in Big Rapids that hasn't produced power in years. They are planning on having removed. I think the state or DEQ has something to do with it. Is this a possibility for Flatrock?


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## YPSIFLY (Feb 13, 2001)

From what I have heard, I doubt it. Its in need of some repair, so who knows.


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## gunrod (Jan 16, 2001)

I didn't know Belleville was still producing power. With the amount of water they let through they couldn't power my electric tooth brush. I'm sure no one would miss it were to disappear.


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## kroppe (May 7, 2000)

I think the likelihood of the Belleville dam being removed is very very slim. All that nice lakefront property on Belleville Lake would disappear. Residents on the lake wouldn't want it. 

There is a similar situation in Ann Arbor, with the Barton Pond Dam. It generates a minimal amount of electricity, and is a fairly high dam like Belleville (French Landing). However the Barton Hills residents would not stand for losing Barton Pond. There are many multi million dollar estates on Barton Pond. However if you are a fan of Huron River smallmouth fishing, dam removal would be a good thing. The FERC generating permit for the Barton dam doesn't expire for quite a while, but I haven't checked on it lately.


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## ericz (Nov 25, 2002)

One interesting comment I got from the DNR about the re-licensing of the Ford Lake dam was "If they (Ypsi Twp.) would have known how much the re-licensing was going to cost them they probably wouldn't have done it".

They can still operate the dam as a water retention device without being licensed by FERC and jumping thru all those hoops. There are plenty of them around that no longer produce power but still retain a backwater or pond.

Funny thing is the Ford lake dam is COSTING the twp over $100,000 a year to operate, even after they sell off all the power they produce to DTE.

e


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## mtorzews (Jan 20, 2000)

Although it would never happen. Removing the Belleville dam potentially could produce good smallmouth river fishing, but at the cost of great lake smallmouth fishing. Belleville Lake supports many fishing and recreation opportunities that would not exist if returned to a river. Belleville lake receives more fishing man hours than any lake in SE Michigan. How many anglers would be able to utilize the resulting river. 

Now removing the Flat Rock dam is a better possibility. The pond behind it is not used for anything at this time. 

Most of these dams are used in peak power times only. Such as the power outage. These dams helped return power to neighborhoods while the big power plants were being repaired.


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## ZobZob (Oct 27, 2002)

I read somewhere that Belleville Lake used to be much higher. 

Anyhow, I don't know how much good removing one dam would do for a river system that has at least 20. After Belleville, then we would move on to Ford, etc, etc. It sounds like a pipe dream to me!

Zob


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## Woolybugger (Feb 26, 2001)

Zobzob,

Are you saying we should start from the top in Oakland County? That's a great idea! 

I fished the 6" tailwater of Kensington today and caught nothing but dink smallmouths. Saw a couple carp though. Stood right next to the dam and didn't feel a current. You guys are complaining about Flatrock and Bellville, there is hardly anything coming over the dam. Two years ago, I would have been knocked on my @$$ by the current.

Take em down. They'll make great wetlands.


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## gunrod (Jan 16, 2001)

I think it would be a start to require them to post the water flows and levels from the Belleville Dam that are posted from Ann Arbor, Milford and New Hudson. Then we would have an idea of what we are dealing with.


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## Woolybugger (Feb 26, 2001)

I checked out the lower Huron at a couple spots yesterday. I agree its below summer levels. Didn't think it was possible but I didn't get the rod out because it looked like a waste of time.

I live by the Raisin which has a couple of dams but not impounded for lakes or electricity as far as I can tell. The water is up at least a foot over summer and looks pretty average for this time of year.

Two riversheds right next to each other, one average and one way down.


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## kroppe (May 7, 2000)

Woolybugger, 

Interesting comparison. I drive over the Raisin twice a day to/from work on US-23. It seems to have a decent fill of water just about all the time. BTW it always seems to be muddy; it's a rare day to have a nice stain and almost never clear. 

Three differences I can think of between the Huron and Raisin. 

1. Throughout its length, the Huron flows through much higher population density areas than the Raisin. 

2. The Raisin flows through almost flat low gradient plains type agricultural areas, Huron has some areas of good gradient in the Dexter area. 

3. There are three large lakes (Kent, Ford, Belleville) and at least 2 significant "lake" impoundments (Barton, Argo) on the Huron, none that I know of on the Raisin. 

I'm sure these have something to do with the water level differences.


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## Woolybugger (Feb 26, 2001)

I suspect the stain is mostly from farm run off. Algae is getting to be more and more of a problem. There are small dams, one in Dundee and three in Monroe but none to impound a lake.

One problem I noticed growing up in the Clinton Watershed and living the past nine years in the Rouge Watershed is that there is increasing runoff with development. As wetlands are replaced with pavement, rain runoff is fast, so the rivers are either very high or low. Beaver Creek, a Clinton trib, ran behind my house and was always about 8 inches deep. Now it is 2 inches, mostly stagnant, and has bank erosion problems. A friend of mine had lived over 15 years with Sealey Creek, a Rouge trib, meandering through his property. Now it is nearly straight, taking out several large trees from erosion in the past two years. This happened after all the development on 14 and Haggerty. Similiar problems were discussed at the Johnson Creek Society meetings when Beck and 6 Mile were developed.

I don't think that development is the problem on the Huron. ericz had mentioned, and I have to agree, that there isn't much fluctuation with rainfall. Something strange is going on here.


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## kroppe (May 7, 2000)

wooly, 

Good points. Another dam I forgot is the Baseline Dam which is a lake level structure for the Portage chain of lakes. 

With development creating a lot of non-permeable surfaces (roofs, roads, parking lots) I can understand large upswings in flow during big rains. But what I am having a hard time figuring out is the sustained low flow on the Huron. 

I'm no climatologist, but I think the last few years have been lean in terms of rainfall. Also maybe it's possible that increased development has created increased demands on groundwater and direct river water consumption for household use. I've been told that Ann Arbor has water intakes in the Huron River, not sure if that is true or not. 

The combination of lean precipitation years and increased withdrawals for human consumption might be partial explanations for the low flows.


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## YPSIFLY (Feb 13, 2001)

Looks like they draw water from Barton Pond:

http://tappan.aaps.k12.mi.us/Science/Kelley/Water1.html


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## Woolybugger (Feb 26, 2001)

My brother lives at the headwaters of the Huron in Commerce Twsp. A lot of the water comes from springs as well as runoff prior to the first impoundment of Commerce Lake. The lake is down atleast a foot and hasn't changed much this year. The Huron was fishable above Commerce Lake two years ago but is a trickle for the past year and a 1/2. 

Part of this area relies on groundwater and not city water and I wonder if this is playing a role?

Groundwater is low throughout SE Michigan. The pond is Mayberry is down four feet and has been that way for atleast the past four years.


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## kroppe (May 7, 2000)

Pretty interesting stuff Chris. 

Here are three plots. First is the Huron River at Geddes Dam in Ann Arbor. The next is the Raisin in Monroe, which is where it flows into Erie. Last is the Raisin in Adrian, attempting to compare to the Huron in Ann Arbor, which is more in the middle of the length of the river. The magnitudes of the flows are more or less the same on the Huron @ Ann Arbor and Raisin @ Adrian.




























Here are a couple things I see:

1. The Huron seems to have low flow events more often than high flow. The Raisin seems to be the opposite. 

2. The Huron seems to have generally lower flows vs. long term average than does the Raisin. 

3. The Raisin flow pattern is pretty similar at Adrian and Monroe. There is no data on the Huron downstream of Ann Arbor so the same cannot be said for the Huron. 

The overall low flow shift for the Huron may be due to evaporation taking place on the lakes/impoundments, and also due to drinking water demands placed on it by fast-growing communities. 

The lack of high flow events on the Huron could be due to the buffering effect of the various level control structures at Baseline, Barton and Belleville. 

The high flow events on the Raisin is consistent IMO with a runoff-dominated river, as it flows through many miles of deadpan flat agricultural areas. 

Just more fuel for the discussion, no rocket science in this information.


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## grapeape (Oct 3, 2001)

City of a2 draws the majority of their water from a couple of big wells at the airport. Could it be possible that the Huron is helping to support the groundwater?


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