# Season dates - planning ahead



## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Not trying to fuel the fire in arguing about setting season dates, but I subscribe to a listserve from North Dakota Game and Fish that gives regular updates every couple of weeks on various things. Guess what just hit my email box? This years season has not even closed, and they are already giving everyone an update on what they expect for next years dates. Even though their dates are subject to approval by their commission in late summer after the USFWS weighs in just like here, this at least gives us confidence of what they are thinking, and makes planning our annual Nodak trip much easier. Here in Michigan we have very little idea what next year holds. I'm just sayin, things could be a lot easier here if the will was there.....

*Late-Season Hunting Opportunities End Soon
North Dakota waterfowl hunters are reminded the statewide duck and white-fronted goose seasons close Dec. 2. However, duck hunting in the high plains unit reopens Dec. 8 and continues through Dec. 30.
In addition, the season for Canada geese closes Dec. 20, except for the Missouri River Zone, which closes Dec. 28. Light goose hunting closes statewide Dec. 30.
Archery deer, sharp-tailed and ruffed grouse, partridge, pheasant and tree squirrel hunting seasons continue through Jan. 6, 2013.
The fall turkey season closes Jan. 13, 2013.

Tentative 2013 Season Opening Dates
To help North Dakota hunters prepare for hunting seasons in 2013, the North Dakota Game and Fish Department annually provides its best estimate for opening dates for the coming year.
Dates become official when approved by governors proclamation. Tentative opening dates for 2013 include:

Spring Crow	March 9
Spring Turkey	April 13
Fall Crow	August 10
Early Canada Goose	August 15
Deer Bow, Mountain Lion	August 30
Dove	September 1
Sharptail, Hun, Ruffed Grouse, Squirrel	September 14
Youth Waterfowl, Sandhill Crane	September 14
Youth Deer	September 20
Early Resident Waterfowl	September 21
Regular Waterfowl	September 28
Youth Pheasant	October 5
Pheasant, Fall Turkey	October 12
Mink, Muskrat, Weasel Trapping	October 26
Deer Gun	November 8
Deer Muzzleloader	November 29

Upcoming Events:
Nov. 26: Mountain Lion Zone 1 Late Season Opens; Districts 3, 7 Advisory Board Meetings
27: Districts 2, 4 Advisory Board Meetings
28: Districts 5, 8 Advisory Board Meetings
29: Districts 1, 6 Advisory Board Meetings
30: Muzzleloader Season Opens
Complete List of Schedule of Events

Game and Fish Media:
November 2012 North Dakota Outdoors Magazine
North Dakota Outdoors Weekly Webcast: Aquatic Nuisance Species
North Dakota Outdoors Weekly Video: No Water in Winter*


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

wish z1 just opened on last saturday in sept every year and rest of the zones opened the next 2 weekends every year. would naturally move the opener earlier and later by calendar. *shrugs


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Why do we in Michigan constantly have to move the dates around? Other states don't unless the USFWS throws a curveball. Do people hunting Nodak bitch if the weather turns out to be 80 degrees and sunny during the opeing week, or 40 and snow flurries? Sure they do. Our crew does every time we get the heat for our week there. But do they freak out and change their dates the next year? NO! 

There's no reason that the DNR/CWAC can't have a position already in mind today for the 2013 opener. JMO.


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## Duckman Racing (Oct 11, 2004)

I am headed to Missouri for work next week, and since it is duck season I am going to try and squeeze in a hunt. Anyway, as I was reading through the MO duck hunting regulations I found this table, which seems useful...


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Duckman Racing said:


> I am headed to Missouri for work next week, and since it is duck season I am going to try and squeeze in a hunt. Anyway, as I was reading through the MO duck hunting regulations I found this table, which seems useful...


Works for me. No reason we couldn't have something similar.


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

Duckman Racing said:


> I am headed to Missouri for work next week, and since it is duck season I am going to try and squeeze in a hunt. Anyway, as I was reading through the MO duck hunting regulations I found this table, which seems useful...


OMG!!!! How dare you post something that makes so much sense!!!!:yikes:

A plan like that with how the calendar falls(and using Shi Kids last saturday of September for zone 1) would have years that favor the early guys, years that favor the later guys and years that split the 2 groups.

The big arguments would be where to split the 2 wasted days(Mon and Tues at the end of a straight 60 day season).


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## rentalrider (Aug 8, 2011)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> wish z1 just opened on last saturday in sept every year and rest of the zones opened the next 2 weekends every year. would naturally move the opener earlier and later by calendar. *shrugs


I though you weren't gonna put your opinion out there this time? :evilsmile


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

goosemanrdk said:


> ...The big arguments would be where to split the 2 wasted days(Mon and Tues at the end of a straight 60 day season).


yeah but Robert, that would be a much smaller hurdle than what we currently go through year after year after year.... UGH :banghead3


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

just ducky said:


> yeah but Robert, that would be a much smaller hurdle than what we currently go through year after year after year.... UGH :banghead3


I would like to think that, but after the last couple of years, I am not so sure that this would be true.


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## Chez29 (May 11, 2008)

I think we should have a set zone 1 start of the last weekend of Sept for the already mentioned reasons. I follow the wisconsin boards and they have many of the same discussions we have about dates and splits. The Northern zone in Wisconsin has been a straight 60 day season opening at the earliest time for years. This year they switched to a split with the following days. *September 22 - November 4, 2012 and November 10 - 25, 2012 *Kent Van Horn is the Wisconsin DNR Waterfowl guy and said this in an email that was shared on another forum.



> The factors are relatively simple. My goal is generally to put the most hunters in contact with the most ducks when setting the duck hunting seasons. We alter this slightly each year to accommodate smaller number of hunters seeking a different hunting experience.
> 
> With regard to the north duck zone, the best data I have available is an analysis of 10 years of duck harvest data that shows about 90% of the ducks harvest north of Hwy 10 are harvested by November 1. If you look at the graph below which is harvest by week, it is rather apparent that to put the most duck hunters in contact with the most ducks, we should open the north duck zone as early as possible without any split. Duck harvest decreases fairly steadily each week the season continues. However, there are a group of duck hunts that have continued to ask for later hunting in November. *With most of the duck harvest in September and October, I do not want to have a split or closure during those months.* However, since relatively little harvest occurs in November, I told the group of late season hunters that if they wanted to move days around in November that they could make a suggestion. They suggested the early November Monday-Friday closure and putting the days over the holiday period of Thanksgiving. This proposal received the majority of the public support during 2012 so this is what was implemented


This line
*My goal is generally to put the most hunters in contact with the most ducks when setting the duck hunting seasons.*
sums up what the Michigan DNR philosophy is and I dont have a problem with that. That being said I think they could do a better job for the late season hunters. The participation and harvest is much lower at this time, in Wisconsins case only 10% harvest after Nov 1. So I think they could go outside the box more without affecting recruitment, retention or harvest. One thought I had was moving away from the split mentality of a 2 day or 4 day split. Why not end the first split on a Tuesday versus a Friday or Sunday and make the second split 7 days. 2 days is too short of a time and what difference does it make if you end the split on a Tuesday or a Friday. Just my long 2 cents.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

rentalrider said:


> I though you weren't gonna put your opinion out there this time? :evilsmile


i know, i know...i'm done. i said my piece. thats the only wish i have for next year. I even like this late split, i have some offers for downstate, gonna try it out if we have the weather for it.


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## The Doob (Mar 4, 2007)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> wish z1 just opened on last saturday in sept every year and rest of the zones opened the next 2 weekends every year. would naturally move the opener earlier and later by calendar. *shrugs


Agree!!! This may be the best solution for two issues:
1 - the continuity and fore knowledge of seasons
2- the natural progression between starting early to starting later

There was some serious conversation about this at the CWAC meeting at Frank's this year. Forget the vagaries of the migration, freeze up versus no freeze up, east side versus west side and go with a 60 day format that consistently gives the majority of hunters the most days afield with the best chance at success. With the plus that they can plan on this year to year - so if your miserable about the dates, you can get the proper therapy prior to season


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

Am I losing my mind, or did I just not pay attention to the dates, or what? Zone 3 closes on a Friday, seriously? 
My dad pointed this out to me this past weekend, I told him it had to be a mis-print in the Guide, no one is dumb enough to close the season on a Friday.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

William H Bonney said:


> Am I losing my mind, or did I just not pay attention to the dates, or what? Zone 3 closes on a Friday, seriously?
> My dad pointed this out to me this past weekend, I told him it had to be a mis-print in the Guide, no one is dumb enough to close the season on a Friday.


Was a compromise to get sw some more later days at end of season

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## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

Then all we'd have to complain about is a useful split. That's no fun.  

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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

William H Bonney said:


> Am I losing my mind, or did I just not pay attention to the dates, or what? Zone 3 closes on a Friday, seriously?
> My dad pointed this out to me this past weekend, I told him it had to be a mis-print in the Guide, no one is dumb enough to close the season on a Friday.


Sorry man, but you must follow this group... http://www.asleepatthewheel.com/

This was hashed and thrashed and regurgitated at length in August after the CWAC meeting. As Shi Kid said, it was someone's compromise to give a couple more late days.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

IMO, since zone III is closing on 11/30, the late split should have been mid December and not end of year. That would have given the birds a 2 week rest and opened up a lot more opportunities to a lot more people to utilize the split.


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

just ducky said:


> Sorry man, but you must follow this group... http://www.asleepatthewheel.com/
> 
> This was hashed and thrashed and regurgitated at length in August after the CWAC meeting. As Shi Kid said, it was someone's compromise to give a couple more late days.


Man, I guess so. I mean, I knew it was the 30th, I just never looked at the calendar to see that it was a Friday. 

I'm not sure if this has been everyone elses experience for the late split, but for us only the first day has ever been any good. The birds get the snot shot out of 'em that first day and then they're gone.


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## Branta (Feb 6, 2002)

been chirping about this for decades now.

no reason (given a 60 day season) that we don't know what the start date is for each zone.

argue about splits all day, but not start dates.

there's plenty of states and provinces that know right now when they'll start the season for 2013 (all things being the same and we don't jump off a cliff into "restricted" formats).


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Branta said:


> been chirping about this for decades now.
> 
> no reason (given a 60 day season) that we don't know what the start date is for each zone.
> 
> ...


yep, this has been discussed at length. I've yet to hear a good argument why we can't do it here. So now it's up to someone of authority in CWAC (um, John...are you out there?) to plant the seed in everyone's head.


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## Quackaddicted (Mar 13, 2011)

one thing is for sure, set season dates need to be a priority. If not for the obvious, vacation requests, planning different types of hunting activities, and for the tourism dollars that will accompany set dates, just the d--- peace of mind! As has been stated, you can't please everyone. Mother nature is never gonna do what we want, just play the hand that is dealt, and become a better hunter under adverse conditions. Adapt and overcome. Trying to play the season dates with the weather,you have a better chance of busting the powerball this week. I applaud our CWAC reps. for doing the job the majority of us can't. I have been hunting waterfowl for over 30yrs, every season brings it's own unique challenges, learn to enjoy them. 

Yeah, well put!


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## LoBrass (Oct 16, 2007)

Season dates? Really, already?

Must say that I like the idea of having a set chart to go from. Stressed consistency at the last meeting if you recall. My feeling is that we are only going to get it close for the majority and that's about all you will see. The system is not broken.

Over the years I have seen countless good ideas and other not so good ideas. They all have merit to some.

Where the 2013 chips will fall is anyones guess. 

But, I'm listening and reading so carry on.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

I am down for the set saturdays as openers. I could live with the 2nd saturday in Z3 as like it was said already the calendar will naturally love the date around. As long as I get my Late December-January split I am happy.


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## RS1983 (Mar 16, 2009)

craigrh13 said:


> I am down for the set saturdays as openers. I could live with the 2nd saturday in Z3 as like it was said already the calendar will naturally love the date around. As long as I get my Late December-January split I am happy.


I live for that December-January spit. I know we might lose it if the season become more restrictive.

Snow on the ground, birds that haven't been hunted in a month-its like a second opener without all the tennis shoe yahoos. When we get those spits I take those days off from work b/c its pretty much certain we limit out.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

LoBrass said:


> Season dates? Really, already?
> 
> Must say that I like the idea of having a set chart to go from. Stressed consistency at the last meeting if you recall. My feeling is that we are only going to get it close for the majority and that's about all you will see. The system is not broken.
> 
> ...


As Bud pointed out, it will be difficult to get the majority on board with such a table. But then what's new about that? I think if this concept were sold to the DNR & CWAC as a positive step, being that people would at least now have a reasonable idea of when to expect the opener, I think many would have an open enough mind to see the benefit. Then, as Shiawassee Kid said, the argument will be over when the split occurs, and how long it is. At least it's a step in the right direction IMO.


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## PhilBernardi (Sep 6, 2010)

:lol:


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## Zorba (Jan 24, 2007)

The main issue to look at next year will be when will the UP open? What ever the UP does everyone else will follow suite. If all the frame work stays the same for next year the UP will have the option to open as early as 21 Sept.

With all the talk of later seasons, why was this years cwac vote to open early 17 to 1 and the only person to vote no was from the UP. You would think it woud have been a zone 3 guy.

At next years Aug meeting I bet you will see much more debate on what the UP dates are.


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## Boyd (Aug 19, 2006)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> *60 day season:*
> z1 - last saturday in sept
> z2 - first saturday in oct
> z3 - second saturday in oct (i would kill for this to alternate between 2nd and 3rd saturdays each year)
> ...


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

F&F, I have offered help to many organizations, so don't think I don't do anything. I simply choose to stay local. I sit on a few boards, and am a commisioner in a very large organization that will remain nameless, but it is a world wide organization (non waterfowl related). So don't think i don't contribute, I try to let things go the way they are supposed to the last several years, speak to the reps, express my thoughts on season dates, etc. Where has that gotten it ? Nowhere. So I have every right to complain on this board as you do. And perosnally, I hope you get a lot of what you wish for on season dates. But remember one thing, Karma is a good thing, and I can't wait for it. I even offered to LoBrass to volunteer for the CWAC last year or the year before. Have you ever volunteered to do this ? 

Good luck all. And SK, I see you can't stick to your word very well. I thought you were gonna be quiet on season dates....


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

My original post was about the idea of having set opening weekends, and knowing ahead of time, like the North Dakota or Missouri examples. So let's stay focused on that only...is such a thing possible here? If not, why not? I have yet to see a rationale reason why a table like Shi Kid posted is not a good thing. Yes, we'd argue about which weekends should be listed. But if you average it over say 5 or 10 years, the weather should play out so that we'd all have some of what we really want. In other words, another example of no one getting what they want all the time, but most getting some of what they want most of the time anyway.


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## wavie (Feb 2, 2004)

We really need a couple of consecutive restrictive seasons. 

Most people dont realize how spoiled we've been with the liberal frame work. You might have to work harder to find birds but they are there. If you think people arent having great duck hunts in SE or SW MI up to Nov 30th your sadly mistaken. Its been repeated many times on here, if you have to wait for the late 2/4 day season to have your best hunts of the year, just what the hell are you doing for the other 58/56 days? 

Dont forget, this was a projected record flight this fall.


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## Blacklab77 (Jun 21, 2006)

I ask the question as well will/if we get a early teal season within the state will that help guys who normally like to hunt early give up a few more days on the end of the season. 

For me it I could hunt teal that sept 1 to 15 with geese I'd gladly give the guys in the SW another 4 to 10 days in dec, but thats just me.


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## Fowl Minded (Apr 9, 2008)

I think we can all agree that those of us who hunt teal and woodies on the beaver ponds want a earlier opener. Those of us hunting wintering Goldeneye want a later opener. Hunting the Keewenaw Pen. and hunting Monroe Co. are not the same either......
Framework, ducks, weather, ect, aside...

The point remains,
wouldn't it be nice to have a real good idea, RIGHT NOW, that next year:
the UP would open the 28th of Sept.
the N. Lower would open the 5th of Oct.
and the S. Lower would open the 12th of Oct.

then its up to us to deal with how we react to those dates.


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## PhilBernardi (Sep 6, 2010)

_Dont forget, this was a projected record flight this fall. _

Assuming that broods fledged as on average, etc, etc, then maybe. But even if it did mean record fall flight, that doesn't translate into record number of birds coming through Michigan. 

We get, if I remember correctly, less than 20% of our birds from outside of the "Great Lakes" region. Someone can correct me on this - please.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

wavie said:


> We really need a couple of consecutive restrictive seasons.
> 
> Most people dont realize how spoiled we've been with the liberal frame work. You might have to work harder to find birds but they are there. If you think people arent having great duck hunts in SE or SW MI up to Nov 30th your sadly mistaken. Its been repeated many times on here, if you have to wait for the late 2/4 day season to have your best hunts of the year, just what the hell are you doing for the other 58/56 days?
> 
> Dont forget, this was a projected record flight this fall.


Great post!

I see waaay more potential for restricted seasons than I do expanded seasons.


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## Chez29 (May 11, 2008)

Zone 1 should open the last saturday of Sep. Next year it will open Sept 28, almost a stonecold lock.

I think the quote from Kent Van Horn WDNR sums up the governing bodies thoughts on season dates. 



> My goal is generally to put the most hunters in contact with the most ducks when setting the duck hunting seasons


They dont care that late season can be exceptional hunting for the few people who hunt the few spots that are covered with birds. They want dates that allow the most hunters a shot at the most birds. For zone 1 that would be to open as early as allowed so that is what happened this year, when allowed to open on the 22nd they took it next year it will be Sept 28th, see North Dakota prelim dates, we will follow that.


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## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

KLR said:


> Great post!
> 
> I see waaay more potential for restricted seasons than I do expanded seasons.


This is a good post and I see your point. But,.....just because the late split is usually our best hunts of the year doesn't mean we're not killing birds the rest of the season.

The late split is my favorite for a couple reasons. First, there is usually snow on the ground and I love a mallard shoot in the snow. Second, color of the birds. They have good color now, but great color the end of Dec. Third, oddballs. I'm sure this sounds odd to some, but I've shot more blacks, gaddies, wigeon and pinnies on the split than any other time of the year. And last, usually the best numbers we have at any given time of the year(at least concentrated numbers).

I know this is why I cried last year when it was taken away. Hope I don't have to go through that again.

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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

Chez29 said:


> Zone 1 should open the last saturday of Sep. Next year it will open Sept 28, almost a stonecold lock.
> 
> For zone 1 that would be to open as early as allowed so that is what happened this year, when allowed to open on the 22nd they took it next year it will be Sept 28th, see North Dakota prelim dates, we will follow that.


That is incorrect. During a Liberal framework, the USFWS allows for an opener on the Saturday closet to September 24th. Next year that would be September 21st.

North Dakota Prelim dates have the Resident opener on September 21 and the non-resident opener on the 28th for next year. The 21st opener is North Dakota following the Saturday closest to the 24th as the opener. It's not them getting any "bonus" time for their residents. They choose to be more restrictive within their USFWS alloted days to non-residents. Thus the 28th opener for nonresidents.

In my opinion, it is the few years like this past year and next year that would make the concept of a set schedule of openers a hard sell(at least based on my previous experience with CWAC) as they allow the opportunity to have the Zone 1 opener fall on the second to last Satruday of September. 

Don't worry, 2014, 2015 and 2016 will be much nicer, as the Saturday closet to September 24th is the last Saturday of September. So given a liberal season option, in those years the Zone 1 opener will be the last Saturday in September. Almost a stonecold lock for those years.


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## Chez29 (May 11, 2008)

Looks like mister math failed me again. :lol:

I still stand by my stonecold lock of Sept 28th just because.


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

Just Ducky,

I agree with you on set dates for the waterfowl seasons in MI. It should be a set date every year, regardless of weather. Then all we have left to argue is when the splits in each zone is used. 

As for all the people worried about less liberal seasons, lets not focus on this right now, lets deal with that as it occurs, becasue that will be an an exception to the rule when we have a restrictive season. If it needs to be 30 days, then so be it. I would it rather be 30 days in bad times then in good times should we get restricted. That means the resource needs help, and us shooting our 30 days in October would mean more protection for the birds. I am all for that if needed. But please, remember, if the Feds decide to restrict us, nothing the state can do with seasons. Just deal with it then. No planning ahead will help with a restrictive season on dates. I think we should focus on the present and fixing the square wheels.


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