# A Heathen on the Holy Waters



## GVSUKUSH

A cooler filled with PBR and the Beast! Only the classiest lagers for a classy stretch of river. 

Maybe even some Swishers.....With the plastic tip of course!


----------



## ESOX

My buddy and I will bring up an 18'6" tunnel hull jon boat we have rigged for flats fishing if the date is doable. That ought to make a few eyes bug out.LOL
Would have room for passenger or two too.


----------



## kingfisher2

John, I'm really sorry your friends float was basically ruined with this type of behavior. I think Sara said it well, "There are same A-holes that are fly fisherman....."

I'll tell ya, they are lucky your retarded brother wasn't there John......a 6 pound weight attached to an enhanced Nuke Egg (tied on a shark hook) would of flung their way.

One thing to keep in mind...if it wasn't for idiots like that, we would have a much more difficult time looking good ourselves.....

BTW Shoe, it's a little easier to get the locals advice on fly types when you're passing them a jug of wisers..... :lol: 

I'm surprised you didn't break their glasses or ribs John.......  

I think we should all carry water guns to combat such behavior.....I'm in!

Marc


----------



## beer and nuts

You wouldn't have that sort of BS if they were garden hackle, spinner fisherman!!!   Holy waters, ya right, holy than holier!!!! Nice to see a post on how elite these type of waters WANT to become.....


----------



## maxemus

:woohoo1: What idiots!!


----------



## Molson

kingfisher2 said:


> One thing to keep in mind...if it wasn't for idiots like that, we would have a much more difficult time looking good ourselves.....


Very true statement. Something like this could be a very good statement. But, if this happens, remember that everyone needs to be "legal" in all aspects to make the correct impression.

I don't fish the Holier Than Thou waters, but I do fish downstream, and as of August last year I have a driftboat to go with my float tubes of many years.

I remember a comment on a "web site" that was mentioned here, from several years ago... it went something like, "there is great fishing at other times of the season besides the hex hatch, come on up". Well, my experience in the part of the river I fish is this... I never see those gator looking wood toothpicks until the drake & hex appear. And, I have also been rewarded by chain dragging thru my fishing lane, wood toothpick purists casting to fish that I was standing over and trying to determine the best float for "first cast" success.

One more time from me... keep it all on the legal and up-and-up side, and you will make a bigger impact. 

Tell me when to be there :lol:


----------



## gomer

I fish the Au Sable several time a year and quite a bit of my time up there is spent in the holy waters. I am in no way taking the side of the "wood toothpicks" but think about it, the holywaters is NOT big water by any stretch of the imagination. Say you are standing in the middle of the river and around the bend comes a hyde with oars sticking out the side, making the craft almost as wide as the river. I do also think that those pricks should be beaten for giving you so much grief though.....

and i am not too much of a fan of the whole chain deal


----------



## Shoeman

I just forwarded a link to Rusty.

I highly doubt that he could change everyone's attitude toward drifters, but he should be aware that the "Elitist" mindset is falling on deaf ears. What really bugs me is that in the last year I have spent close to 500 bucks in the joint only to have one my friends get an earful by some of his patrons sitting on a bench smoking cigars and looking like movie stars. (Rin Tin Tin taking a sh*t) :lol:


----------



## chromium

First off, I'd like to thank everybody for the support on this topic. Not all of the people up there are a-holes, but that river has it share of the pretentious.

I have an opinion about the organized float of that river. My initial thoughts were to float that stretch as soon as possible just because I knew it would piss them off and that I had every right to be there. I suppose that's what everybody is feeling right now. The Holy Waters is a very prestigous piece of water that dates back way before my days (Even Whit's :tdo12: ). IMO, to mass float that river would go against what this site stands for. Sure, vengence would be ours but that's not what we're about.
Awareness is our most powerful tool in this case, and we have a great start. Linda, maybe we could float that stretch during the Hex hatch. I'm sure the Pretentia Dimwitta will be hatching as well. :evil: 

So, everybody go float / wade that stretch because it's some beautiful water and because you can. And if you're wading and you see me floating down toward you, don't feel the need to move, I can go behind you. It's easier to do when you're not dragging chain and that's what makes those driftboats fun.

*They can't stop the "Short Bus"*  :mischeif:


----------



## Splitshot

This type of behavior has been going on for a long time in many areas, but the holy waters are probably the worse. If it wasnt for the Internet a lot of people who just like to fish would not be aware of this righteous attitude of some of our fellow sportsmen. Using the term sportsmen in the broadest sense. The main problem with many of these people think the holy waters are really Holy. In that area Rusty Gates is their icon and his guides are minor deities.

It gets more complicated when you toss property owners into the mix as they think they have even more privileges to the river since they pay taxes on the land adjacent to the river. Of course because they live there they know much more about the river, the fish the ecology and what is best for their river. Toss in a big dash of arrogance and self righteousness and you can see why they think they have the absolute right to tell you how you should behave on their river.

In the movie A River Runs Through it, a statement is made at the beginning of the film that there is a fine line between fly fishing and religion. Honestly I have no problem with either, but when you brew the two together you get this strange concoction. 

Last time I looked the Au Sable was a navigable river open to every citizen to wade, canoe or otherwise make use of. The fish belong to anyone who can catch them although in this case the Brethern have lobbied the state to change the rules so they can be caught over and over and only with a fly.

Believe me it is the same in the other Quality waters too, except not quite as blatant. People who own land on rivers, make the mistake in thinking they have more rights to the rivers surrounding their properties than other citizens. Not true!

Bringing up a flotilla might make you feel a little better in the short term, but why waste a good fishing weekend to catch dinks. These elitist groups around our state have been kicking our collective asses for years by organizing and playing back door politics. 

Dont like it, well get ready for more. Members of these groups and guys like the head of TU are quietly working to take more of our prime waters and in my opinion are just waiting for apathy to set in and then continue to take more of the best waters in Michigan for themselves. Protect the resource you know!

The truth is, No kill does nothing to help improve or protect the fishery and flies only and artificial lures have the same impact on the fishery. Someone needs to lobby the DNR to change all flies only designation waters to artificial lures only and do away with this no kill idea. Change them all No Kill areas back to the two fish limit over 15".

Once that is done you wont hear all the chatter about protecting our waters from self serving religious groups. The science is there and the mandate to use hard science is there, now all that is needed is some organization to make the powers that be act scientifically. So instead of wasting all the energy and money for this in your face float, take the time to write the DNR, the NRC and your state senators and representatives and dont forget the governor.

In fact you dont even have to organize, just write personally. If enough of you take the time to write, some change will come of it. Many of the people who make the decisions already know some of their decisions are not in the best interest of a majority of fishermen, but when they hear just one side of the story over and over with no opposition they just figure; What the hell!


----------



## Buddy Lee

Splitshot said:


> This type of behavior has been going on for a long time in many areas, but the holy waters are probably the worse. If it wasnt for the Internet a lot of people who just like to fish would not be aware of this righteous attitude of some of our fellow sportsmen. Using the term sportsmen in the broadest sense. The main problem with many of these people think the holy waters are really Holy. In that area Rusty Gates is their icon and his guides are minor deities.
> 
> It gets more complicated when you toss property owners into the mix as they think they have even more privileges to the river since they pay taxes on the land adjacent to the river. Of course because they live there they know much more about the river, the fish the ecology and what is best for their river. Toss in a big dash of arrogance and self righteousness and you can see why they think they have the absolute right to tell you how you should behave on their river.
> 
> In the movie A River Runs Through it, a statement is made at the beginning of the film that there is a fine line between fly fishing and religion. Honestly I have no problem with either, but when you brew the two together you get this strange concoction.
> 
> Last time I looked the Au Sable was a navigable river open to every citizen to wade, canoe or otherwise make use of. The fish belong to anyone who can catch them although in this case the Brethern have lobbied the state to change the rules so they can be caught over and over and only with a fly.
> 
> Believe me it is the same in the other Quality waters too, except not quite as blatant. People who own land on rivers, make the mistake in thinking they have more rights to the rivers surrounding their properties than other citizens. Not true!
> 
> Bringing up a flotilla might make you feel a little better in the short term, but why waste a good fishing weekend to catch dinks. These elitist groups around our state have been kicking our collective asses for years by organizing and playing back door politics.
> 
> Dont like it, well get ready for more. Members of these groups and guys like the head of TU are quietly working to take more of our prime waters and in my opinion are just waiting for apathy to set in and then continue to take more of the best waters in Michigan for themselves. Protect the resource you know!
> 
> The truth is, No kill does nothing to help improve or protect the fishery and flies only and artificial lures have the same impact on the fishery. Someone needs to lobby the DNR to change all flies only designation waters to artificial lures only and do away with this no kill idea. Change them all No Kill areas back to the two fish limit over 15".
> 
> Once that is done you wont hear all the chatter about protecting our waters from self serving religious groups. The science is there and the mandate to use hard science is there, now all that is needed is some organization to make the powers that be act scientifically. So instead of wasting all the energy and money for this in your face float, take the time to write the DNR, the NRC and your state senators and representatives and dont forget the governor.
> 
> In fact you dont even have to organize, just write personally. If enough of you take the time to write, some change will come of it. Many of the people who make the decisions already know some of their decisions are not in the best interest of a majority of fishermen, but when they hear just one side of the story over and over with no opposition they just figure; What the hell!


  Excellent post.


----------



## kingfisher2

Wow Ray........are you on this years ballot? Nice read!!!

Marc


----------



## FREEPOP

Buddy Lee said:


> Excellent post.


......and you would expect less from the infamous Splitshot?  

Hi, Ray


----------



## fishinlk

Glad to see cooler heads prevailing!

A mass float is definitely NOT the thing to do. Yeah the guys encountered were real a***s' but like you there are a LOT of others who like to fish those waters and either drove up or flew in from other parts of the country on a given day and those are the people your going to hurt. You may get your revenge on a few but you could very well be ruining someone elses rare chances to hit the water and were would that leave their opionions of driftboats? I know where mine would be after running into that. Float traffic starts getting too heavy and pissing off the wading fisherman and they'll get like Montana and they'll start regulating them by daily permits.

Oh and hi Split!


----------



## mondrella

Sorry to hear about the way your trip went. 

Ray has nailed it in his post.


----------



## kienbaumer

Well i'm not a purist by any means, but the majority of the time i'm using fly rod when fishing for trout. That said why can't there be section of flys only no kill? Just like the bait fisherman there are fly fisherman taking the other extreme. i bet alot of fly fisherman are saying all trout water should be no kill flys only, like the wormdunkers saying it should be open to kill and bait. guess what wormdunkers have more trout water. Now you say its just because fly fisherman don't want to fish with the wormdunkers. From the sounds of this thread the wormdunkers don't want to fish with the flyfisherman. Should they add more special regs? hell no its fine the way it is. Then you say the no kill flys only is the best water......well groups like anglers of the au sable and TU made them that way. i could be wrong but i have heard of wormdunkers unlimited. Also how can you fish out of a drift boat in the holy waters i can see using it for transportion but i've seen some drifts go down it and there isn't alot of room. I personally think it would be easier to walk the damn thing, but i'm not going to tip your boat over if you float on by. Finally there are two types of fisherman I hate, wormdunkers and fly fisherman becasue they both get in my way.


----------



## chromium

kienbaumer said:


> Finally there are two types of fisherman I hate, wormdunkers and fly fisherman becasue they both get in my way.


You're intelligence (or lack there of) astounds me. Sounds like you're getting in your own way. :16suspect


----------



## tangleknot

kienbaumer said:


> Also how can you fish out of a drift boat in the holy waters i can see using it for transportion but i've seen some drifts go down it and there isn't alot of room. I personally think it would be easier to walk the damn thing, but i'm not going to tip your boat over if you float on by. Finally there are two types of fisherman I hate, wormdunkers and fly fisherman becasue they both get in my way.


Transportation, getting the opportunity to see an incredible stretch of river, relaxation, the obsessive and captivatiing joy of rowing, the ability to fish as a family.......I could go on and on why we like to fish from a drift boat on the Ausable and many other rivers. If it was damaging, not feasable, unethical, etc., we would not do it. We fish from the boat and get out and wade. 

As far as your last sentence, it clashes with your first sentence in the beginning of your post.


----------



## Kevin

Originally Posted by kienbaumer: "guess what wormdunkers have more trout water."

There are no trout waters that are open to using bait, and prohibit the use of flies.


----------



## Splitshot

Im not surprised at your attitude and I dont mean to pick on you, but it seems to me that you did not read what I wrote, at least with an open mind. First fly fishermen can fish any river or stream with their preferred method. If your preferred method is bait fishing there is currently 100 + miles that you cannot fish. 
I love fly fishing, but it is a waste of time if the fish are feeding on bait. You would probably call me stupid if I was casting night crawlers during the Hex hatch and you would probably be right. Well guess what I think when I see someone fishing dry flies when the conditions are like they were this weekend.
I am not a worm dunker nor am I a fly fisherman, I am just a simple fisherman and when I fish, I am trying to catch them and I dont care if I look good doing it. 
If you just wanted to catch trout even 100 years ago you would find the flies only sections of rivers were in the top 10% or productive trout waters to begin with. Thats why they are the best, not because of Anglers of the Au Sable spent a few weekends working on them. If you were better informed, you would know that many people who help improve the habitat of our rivers dont even fish. For your further information 40% of the members of TU dont fly fish at all and that is according to TU.
Lets just say you are young and new to fishing and have a lot to learn. According to DNR fisheries biologist No Kill actually does more harm than good, especially for brown trout. If some fish are not harvested they will over populate and as the numbers grow, the average size of the fish will diminish. On the plus side it does make it easier for guys like you to hook a nice one once in a while. My advice is instead of trying to make our pristine rivers into hatchery like areas, save us the grief and just go to the ol trout pond and pay by the inch
Catching a trophy brown trout in a No Kill area is much the same as shooting a trophy buck in some fenced in area. Looks good in the picture, but it just dont seem right somehow. And finally, if you prefer wading just do it, but dont criticize someone who might want to take kids, inexperienced fishermen or just take a nice ride and a hardy lunch and fish in style because that is ignorant.


----------



## flyfsh4trt

I was hoping I could break in the new downriggers/rods! :lol: I would have been trolling streamers of course...


----------



## gunrod

Splitshot said:


> I am not a worm dunker nor am I a fly fisherman, I am just a simple fisherman


There lies the greatest obstacle for sportsman in this state. We divide ourselves into sub categories and make it easier to conquer us when it comes to legislation. It's the same in hunting (pro-QDM, anti-QDM, bow hunter, rifle hunter, traditional bow hunt.......). Now the fishermen are drift boaters, AuSable boaters, waders, float tubers, worm dunkers, hardware and fly fishermen.

My hope is someday we come together as sportsmen (or outdoorsmen, hell even outdoorsperson to be P.C.) before we lose what we have because we are divided amongst ourselves.


----------



## Steve

Please let's not turn what was one of the first unifying threads on this site in a long time into a devisive one pitting "worm dunkers" against "fly flingers" and "hardware slingers". I also do not want Rusty to think that we have anything against him. The first time I stayed at his place I wandered down to the fly shop to sheepishly ask if there was someone I could hire to take me upstream for a long wade back down. I guy said hop in my truck and lets go. Turns out after some discussion it was Rusty. Rusty is a down to earth guy and has helped me other times since then with spotting as well.


----------



## HATCHBOMB

Hello -

Getting back to the original topic...

I can understand people being a little put off for seeing a drifter in that section. It's small water for that size boat, but it is legal to use it there nonetheless. There actions are inexcusable.

You must be a good rower to make it thru there! I floated the same stretch in a 11" hyde during the opener a few years back and it was tight for that boat. We only had a few grumbles from wading fishermen that had to move a bit when we came through. 

Next time someone wants to give you an earful, drop the anchor and get out and the watch them STFU!!!

HATCHBOMB


----------



## kienbaumer

First of i'm just debating the issues...I'm not trying to offend anyone i'm just taking the another point of view. By taking shots at me was like all the wade fisherman and property owners taking shots at you. 

Splitshot,
You stated early in a post that fishing in no kill area was like hunting on a trophy farm. I don't quite get that. In the no kill areas of the au sable they do not plant its all wild. In a trophy farm they put animals in a enclosed area. I understand that there are areas that are kill areas that aren't planted as well, but areas that are planted, to me, are more like trophy ranchs. People put fish into an enclosed area and kill them. Also if no kill areas make the section of river worse off then why do you feel bad about catching a fish out of that section of river? It should be more of a challenge and a greater reward if all those studies are right.


----------



## Splitshot

Last year my largest brown trout a 26" fish came out of the no kill area of the PM. I had a friend with me from out of state who loves to fish salmon. I walked down to a deep hole I know, but someone was already there so I asked if he minded if I fished the top of the hole. On my second cast 10' in front of me I hooked this big brown.

In the rivers I normally fish you would never hook a fish like that under those circumstances. That was a dumb fish. Many fish once hooked will become more wary but some never learn and can be easily caught over and over which gives them a chance to grow big. Thats what makes it so easy. One of your buddies caught a 23" fish and he knew it was 23 inches because one of his buddies had caught the same fish in the same place a few days before. Personally I dont want to catch the same fish over and over again and that is why I try to fish any particular section of a river only once a year.

I dont consider the dinks they plant in our rivers as trophies. Anyway if a planter lives to be 15" he is wild and has adapted. Almost all cold water rivers have natural reproduction but most are supplemented plantings. Brown also migrate long distances and that is why some of the guys who fish the holy waters are crying because some guys upstream and downstream are catching some of their easy fish when they do migrate.

Im glad you brought up the challenge issue, because if you fly fish for the challenge, the real challenge is catching a decent trout on a fly in waters where everyone can fish. Some people would rather catch a trout on a fly, than catch a trout. That is fine, but what I object to is lobbing the DNR to take our prime waters and turn it into a trout hatchery stream.

Fly fishing started because frustrated bait fishermen sometimes watched trout rising and couldnt catch them on bait. Back then, no self respecting trout fisherman would release a legal fish because a big part of the tradition of trout fishing was enjoying the fine eating the trout they caught provided. I am all for conservation and releasing fish you dont intend to consume but to many it has become an obsession. Fish are like any other crop. If you plant a field with corn, you can harvest all the corn and you can have another crop next year, as long as you take care of the land and re-seed it. The same applies to fish of all type and game animals as well.

Humans are at the top of the food chain, not above it. There is a difference.

Steve,

Rusty Gates must be a nice guy or he wouldnt be in business for so long. Everyone I know says the same thing about him. He is well know for his stance on protecting the river as are many other people. He is almost an icon and if you mention the holy waters most fly fishermen will associate those waters with Rusty. Most of the time protecting his river protects his bottom line too. I just wonder if he would be in favor of changing the designation of the holy waters to artificial only and a two fish


----------



## kienbaumer

Splitshot
I can see were you are coming from. I'm not flydunker or a wormdunker am just a dunker. When i fish steelhead salmon the fly rods go bye-bye. That said, I still would rather fish for naturally reproducing trout than planted trout. As for a planter living to be 15" and adapting, well they still don't have the coloring of a wild brown, i personally don't think they fight as hard and when you catch one they are usually missing a fin or something. Also that 23" brown was caught twice yes. By my buddy first then I caught it about a week later. I did not go to that spot looking to catch that fish i just happen too. We new that fish was there for about a month because we hooked him a number of times. This fish became a challenge to us that is why we kept going to that spot. After he caught it the first time we still went there because its a good run, it was not of only nice fish taken out of that spot. We tagged 3 other fish over 20" out of the same spot. This spot is in a KILL zone. 

Ok so if these fish get caught over and over again the fish gets wary like you said. Then it should be harder to catch them persenting more of a challenge. I bet alot of those pigs you tag have been caught before anyways. Besides on the au sable the biggest fish are located below the holy waters anyways.

Finally i not say i'm not trying to say you wrong and i'm right. I'm just stating my opinion....Tightlines


----------



## Splitshot

No problem, and I didn't know you caught that fish too, but that doesn't matter. We would all rather catch wild fish and I am sure some of the fish I catch have been caught before but 99% of the time I can't tell.

Different strains are colored differently, but brown trout of one strain will mate with other strains, so after a while it is impossible to tell what is what. If you can tell by the way they fight, you are a better man than me.

There is only one river in the state that has never been planted that I know of so all other rivers have had some fish planted. By the way there is nothing wrong with catching a fish over and over, I just have a different preference. I also know lots of different places that have big wild trout, but it has taken me a lifetime to find them.

If you only have a couple of places to fish, and the word gets out the crowds will come and your forced to find new ones. My advice is to try new places in the next month as it is the best time of the year instead of going to the same few spots over and over. If you pay your dues someday your biggest decision to make is where to go to catch a trophy fish.

Again about the challenge deal, some trout never learn and are easy to catch over and over. In streams where you can keep fish the easy ones get removed first and then it becomes a challenge. One good thing about no kill areas is it helps newer fishermen gain confidence in their abilities which might be the most important aspect of fishing.

Sorry I got off the topic. I said about all I have to say on this issue for now. John and Sarah, I feel bad about this handful of people that put a cloud over your weekend especially since we all work so hard to get to enjoy them.


----------



## Erik

Wow reading all that made my eyes ache.
Is the "holy water" really that great? I've never been there, but if it's to small for a drift boat it must be pretty small.


----------



## tangleknot

Erik said:


> but if it's to small for a drift boat it must be pretty small.


It's not too small for a drift boat.  Maybe if I was on the sticks it would be an issue, lol, but I'd have the same problem on the MO. :lol:


----------



## Erik

I've encountered the same attitude on other rivers. Maybe not as bad as chromiums fiasco, but it happens. Bet you guys know what I'm talking about. The river is shallow and theres only one spot to get a boat through, and someones fishing in that spot. I've been in both posistions at one time or another. Sometimes I'm the boat, and sometimes I'm the wading fisherman. I can tell you from experiance that it is annoying no matter which person you are. However getting mad doesn't accomplish anything other than raising your blood pressure, and taking the fun out of what your there for. 
I guess what I'm trying to say is, try not to let this kind of stuff bother you. It's going to happen eventually no matter which side your on. The only choice a person has in such a situation is how they react when it does happen. I'll bet a 20 dollar bill that if you just let it pass without saying anything that ten minutes latter you will have forgoten the whole ordeal. However, if you let it get to you, and blurt out some profanity, or just plain get loud, I'll garantee you'll be dwelling on it for the rest of the trip. Thats what I think anyway.
Hope everyones weekend goes well!
See ya all on the river, and I swear I'll try my best not to piss anyone off whether I'm wading or floating


----------



## tangleknot

I understand where you are coming from Erik. However, the sad thing is, the people that were yelling stuff weren't even fishing. Not one of them. Chromium was just floating past their property, cabins, etc., minding his own business having people yell this stuff to them from the banks. One guy even followed John down the river with his cup of coffee, b*itching away. I think John was pretty patient considering all of the bs he dealt with on the float.

Regardless, can't wait to float this Saturday! Sounds like it is going to be beautiful.


----------



## WAUB-MUKWA

Sounds like you guys should get a float boat regatta going on that river and let everyone you know with a drift boat or canoes, kayaks and show up and do some fishing. Is this during the weekend, or when all the part time complainers are back downstate during the week? I didn't read all the threads but what river is this? Glad i'm up here, don't have any of those problems ever.  That just sucks, but when you have money and can buy up all that expensive river frontage people think they own the river and they are boss


----------



## Steve

Soumds like John needs to install some sort of water balloon launcher in hisi boat to keep the locals at bay.


----------



## Shoeman

Steve said:


> Soumds like John needs to install some sort of water balloon launcher in hisi boat to keep the locals at bay.


"Oh Winston, just look what that heathen did to your silk blazer" "I know Didi, let's move to Mission Point" 
:lol:


----------



## gunrod

Shoeman said:


> "Oh Winston, just look what that heathen did to your silk blazer" "I know Didi, let's move to Mission Point"
> :lol:


I'm sorry, I thought he was on fire. I should have known it was just a pipe in his mouth by the smoking jacket and kerchief he was wearing. 

And isn't it Thurston and Lovey.:lol:


----------



## beer and nuts

Wowowowowowow Steve, you better define "local"!!!!  

I would lay a dollar to a donut that most of those guys that were rude were not locals but "implants". A 'local' is somebody that has lived for most of his life up here in god's country not somebody that claims to live up here and worked most of his life downstate.     

Don't blame us locals, it was problably a 'downstater' 'weekend warrior'  :lol:


----------



## Erik

> One guy even followed John down the river with his cup of coffee, b*itching away.


Okay, it probably bares mentioning that I personally do not always find it possible to restrain my anger in such situations as I should. I just know that when I am able to restrian myself I feel better for it later on. 
It sounds like these folks just wanted to ruin chromiums day, and maybe they accomplished that. I'll bet in the end though it took away from their own enjoyment as well. Thats just how these things work out.


----------



## WEEZER

I can see that there are a lot of sheep visiting this site. I'm willing to bet that half the people that responded to this thread have fished the Holy waters less than 2 times in their lives. Joining the cause without knowing the reason is pretty damn pathetic. I suggest that before forming a flotilla you actually visit the river in question and see for ourself that a driftboat is just too damn big to fish out of in that part of the system. 
There are lots of other places that can support drifters on the Ausable system. A) Mio stretch(The boats you see at gates are there to fish Mio). B) Conners to Parmalee also would be suitable. There really isn't much use for a drifter in the upper branches. I don't really care for riverboats and canoes either but at least they don't block off the whole river.
Fishing in the holy waters isn't as easy as some may like to think. A fish that has been caught before isn't easily fooled again unless the presentation is flawless. It's not a trout pond, it's more times than not very frustrating to have 20 inch fish feeding on top only to the bug that you don't have in your box,(If you are lucky enough to figure out what they are eating!)
As for Rusty, He's a good guy. I doubt he wants to be an "icon" He loves trout, and loves everything about the ecosystem. He doesn't talk about catching "swine" and "I'm the best flyfisher out there"." I was the fly angler of the year in 1995"...........Rusty doesn't seem to care about these things so personal attacks on him are an outrage. 
At any rate I'm off the subject now. So long. and word of advice......if a flotilla does occur. I wouldn't pick the next 4 weeks to do it! When the Big bugs come out.....everyone gets a little tense.


----------



## quest32a

A lot of sheep eh? I have never fished the "holy waters" in my life. But Chromium is my friend and i know he has fished those "holy waters" for many years. And if he felt comfortable floating those waters in a driftboat, I trust his judgement. 

You know what, I have changed my mind. Flies only is a great thing, it keeps all the *******s in one strech of river. Where i don't have to deal with the bitching, and moaning. If they want that section of river so damn bad they can have it to themselves. I have no desire to ever step foot in that section if this attitude is a common occurence. 

Until there is a law banning driftboats in that section then those "dicks" have no right to treat John and his friend as they did.


----------

