# New 450 bushmaster ballistics



## 98885

Bobby072 said:


> Would you shoot the 240 or 285gr? None of my shots would be over 200 yards so I'm thinking the 285gr might hit harder. What are your thoughts?


Sorry about jumping in on your conversation but it's an interesting one. I have a question for you Bobby072. If your shots are only 200 yards or less, why not the Hornady loaded ammo ? Less than half the price and excellent accuracy. I know those BC numbers and velocities are impressive so I guess I get it. Maybe I answered my own question. I'm the same way. I reload alot if cartridges for guns I've built and many are ackley improved and wildcat cartridges so performance obviously is the draw. I guess I'm just thinking cost vs need. Those bear creek rounds brings nice numbers to the table for the 450 BM at ranges beyond 250/300 yards for sure.


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## Bobby072

johnIV said:


> Sorry about jumping in on your conversation but it's an interesting one. I have a question for you Bobby072. If your shots are only 200 yards or less, why not the Hornady loaded ammo ? Less than half the price and excellent accuracy. I know those BC numbers and velocities are impressive so I guess I get it. Maybe I answered my own question. I'm the same way. I reload alot if cartridges for guns I've built and many are ackley improved and wildcat cartridges so performance obviously is the draw. I guess I'm just thinking cost vs need. Those bear creek rounds brings nice numbers to the table for the 450 BM at ranges beyond 250/300 yards for sure.


That is what I used last year. Hornady Black 250gr. 

I still might continue to use it as its accurate, priced well and seems to kill them. My second deer I hit at 185 yards in the shoulder blade with no exit. Zero blood trail and he ran around 85 yards in an open area blocked from my view and made it maybe 40 yards into the woods. Almost never found him because no blood. I figured I must have missed.

Maybe if I used a 285gr copper it would have exited or put him down faster. Maybe I would have had some blood to track. Not sure on that. 

Also no chance of eating any lead shards using copper. Did not realize they fragmented so much leaving small chard's up to 16" or so from the entrance hole.


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## 98885

Bobby072 said:


> That is what I used last year. Hornady Black 250gr.
> 
> I still might continue to use it as its accurate, priced well and seems to kill them. My second deer I hit at 185 yards in the shoulder blade with no exit. Zero blood trail and he ran around 85 yards in an open area blocked from my view and made it maybe 40 yards into the woods. Almost never found him because no blood. I figured I must have missed.
> 
> Maybe if I used a 285gr copper it would have exited or put him down faster. Maybe I would have had some blood to track. Not sure on that.
> 
> Also no chance of eating any lead shards using copper. Did not realize they fragmented so much leaving small chard's up to 16" or so from the entrance hole.


Well it's sounds like the 285 or even that 240 would do the job. Both have plenty of energy and impact velocity at 200 yards or less is outstanding. I always use 2000 fps impact velocity in standard rifle bullets but with those big pistol big bore bullets, 1200 fps is plenty. Like to hear the results if you use them. I'm building a Raptor and bullet quality interests me in that heavy projectile. I use 295 power belts in my 50 cal ML. They do a great job and always exit out to 200 yards. Wouldn't seem tough to make a 240-270 grain 45 caliber bullet for the 450 BM that does the same thing. Please post your results


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## Bobby072

johnIV said:


> Well it's sounds like the 285 or even that 240 would do the job. Both have plenty of energy and impact velocity at 200 yards or less is outstanding. I always use 2000 fps impact velocity in standard rifle bullets but with those big pistol big bore bullets, 1200 fps is plenty. Like to hear the results if you use them. I'm building a Raptor and bullet quality interests me in that heavy projectile. I use 295 power belts in my 50 cal ML. They do a great job and always exit out to 200 yards. Wouldn't seem tough to make a 240-270 grain 45 caliber bullet for the 450 BM that does the same thing. Please post your results


I did some calculations for the 250gr hornady, 240 & 285gr Bear Creek.

At 185 yards
==========================
240gr - 1,824fps/1773fpe 
250gr - 1,543fps/1321fpe
285gr - 1,656fps/1735fpe

The 285 and the 240 have about the same energy at 185 yards. Around 450 FPE more than the Hornady 250s.


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## 98885

Bobby072 said:


> I did some calculations for the 250gr hornady, 240 & 285gr Bear Creek.
> 
> At 185 yards
> ==========================
> 240gr - 1,824fps/1773fpe
> 250gr - 1,543fps/1321fpe
> 285gr - 1,656fps/1735fpe
> 
> The 285 and the 240 have about the same energy at 185 yards. Around 450 FPE more than the Hornady 250s.


Petty substantial really. Definitely worth it. I looked for the bullets and couldn't find what bullets they use for those load. Must be an in house design.


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## Bobby072

johnIV said:


> Petty substantial really. Definitely worth it. I looked for the bullets and couldn't find what bullets they use for those load. Must be an in house design.


You would think someone on youtube etc has done a 450 BM bullet comparison. I found this one where a faster so called better 450 BM bullet gets trounced by the old faithful Hornady black 250gr.

Hate to spend 75.00 on Bear Creek bullets only to find they are all over the place in accuracy because the loads are not consistent or the bullets are not uniform. I need to trust my ammo that each shot is going to hit where I aim and at 2x the price you would think at least the company would provide some head to heads vs its competition but they do not.

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/04/450-bushmaster-bullets-not-equal/


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## 98885

Bobby072 said:


> You would think someone on youtube etc has done a 450 BM bullet comparison. I found this one where a faster so called better 450 BM bullet gets trounced by the old faithful Hornady black 250gr.
> 
> Hate to spend 75.00 on Bear Creek bullets only to find they are all over the place in accuracy because the loads are not consistent or the bullets are not uniform. I need to trust my ammo that each shot is going to hit where I aim and at 2x the price you would think at least the company would provide some head to heads vs its competition but they do not.
> 
> https://www.ammoland.com/2018/04/450-bushmaster-bullets-not-equal/


Fortunately 57.00 being alot for 20 rounds, isn't the end of the world and may provide a very good performing and accurate alternative to Hornady. An email to Bear Creek wouldn't hurt asking what bullets they load in those rounds. Many times companies don't disclose bullet manufacturers. I emailed them one time with no response.


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## Bobby072

johnIV said:


> Fortunately 57.00 being alot for 20 rounds, isn't the end of the world and may provide a very good performing and accurate alternative to Hornady. An email to Bear Creek wouldn't hurt asking what bullets they load in those rounds. Many times companies don't disclose bullet manufacturers. I emailed them one time with no response.


Ok sounds like you are buying the ammo to test it at 100 yard groups vs the hornady. Thanks man! 

I'm way too cheap and prefer guys like you step up to the plate for the rest of us. Thanks !


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## DecoySlayer

The cost of the ammo will not be a problem once the initial sight in and turret purchase, if you go that route, are completed. 

I have emailed Bear Creek, on a different subject, they answered within two days. They have a complete machine shop, could they be making their own bullets? Could they have designed the bullets and then farm them out for production?


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## 98885

Bobby072 said:


> Ok sounds like you are buying the ammo to test it at 100 yard groups vs the hornady. Thanks man!
> 
> I'm way too cheap and prefer guys like you step up to the plate for the rest of us. Thanks !


I would if I owned a 450 BM. I'd buy a box of 3-4 manufacturers ammo and run a test of all side by side. I think once the decision is made and gun is dialed in, it would take several years to go thru 20 rounds of ammo during deer season. Before I reloaded , I'd spend 30.00 on a box of premium ammo (25 years ago). It's all worth it once all the development is complete.


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## DecoySlayer

Bobby072 said:


> Ok sounds like you are buying the ammo to test it at 100 yard groups vs the hornady. Thanks man!
> 
> I'm way too cheap and prefer guys like you step up to the plate for the rest of us. Thanks !


We should get a couple of .450 owners together and split the cost of a box.


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## Bobby072

DecoySlayer said:


> The cost of the ammo will not be a problem once the initial sight in and turret purchase, if you go that route, are completed.
> 
> I have emailed Bear Creek, on a different subject, they answered within two days. They have a complete machine shop, could they be making their own bullets? Could they have designed the bullets and then farm them out for production?


I'm just amazed that not one person has tested it.


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## 98885

When my 45 Raptor is complete, I'll be loading several different bullets for it also. Only one company loads for it and it's very pricy. I'll reload for that cartridge and get best results vs loaded ammo.


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## DecoySlayer

It's too cold. The company claims a lot of testing. From their website.

You are here: Home / About

*About*

Bear Creek Ballistics is a family run business located in Southwest Michigan. As a company we focus on the development of products and shooting systems to improve firearm performance and customer success in the field. We are a level 7 FFL licensed business which allows us to manufacture firearms, perform general gunsmithing, build custom ammunition and perform retail firearm sales. The performance systems that we have developed focus on the firearm and the ammunition with applications for muzzle loading as well as center fire rifles. We have a full machine shop attached to our facility giving us the ability to perform nearly any type of firearm modification that a customer may require. In addition to the firearm accuracy systems we have an all copper ball point bullet that can be used in the 460 S&W pistol cartridge, 450 Bushmaster and saboted muzzle loading rounds as well.

The company was incorporated in 2006 but the owner has been actively designing and developing products for the shooting sports industry for over 30 years. The vision for the business was started over three decades ago about the desire to develop a muzzle loading firearm and ammunition that could achieve extended range one shot kills on the big Whitetails southern Michigan is known for.

The owner has over 30 years of experience as a mechanical engineer developing products used in the health care, aerospace and heavy industrial hydraulic power systems. His experience in these fields has given him a broad range of experience in the areas of materials and precision manufacturing processes.

The products displayed on this website have been extensively tested on the range as well as in the field across North America. We will not sell anything we do not use ourselves and feel that it will meet or exceed our performance expectations.


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## 98885

This company is like any other cartridge/ bullet/ firearms manufacturer. R&D is a must before marketing these products. Consumer homework will provide results and if you roll your own, your alot closer to Finding the sweet spot in all around performance in a certain cartridge. The OP wants better performance from the 450 BM so that entry and exit occurs in a deer harvest. I think it's a matter of increasing the velocity while maintaining accuracy. Easily doable if a reloader. Not so much if relying on factory ammo


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## Bobby072

DecoySlayer said:


> It's too cold. The company claims a lot of testing. From their website.
> 
> You are here: Home / About
> 
> *About*
> 
> Bear Creek Ballistics is a family run business located in Southwest Michigan. As a company we focus on the development of products and shooting systems to improve firearm performance and customer success in the field. We are a level 7 FFL licensed business which allows us to manufacture firearms, perform general gunsmithing, build custom ammunition and perform retail firearm sales. The performance systems that we have developed focus on the firearm and the ammunition with applications for muzzle loading as well as center fire rifles. We have a full machine shop attached to our facility giving us the ability to perform nearly any type of firearm modification that a customer may require. In addition to the firearm accuracy systems we have an all copper ball point bullet that can be used in the 460 S&W pistol cartridge, 450 Bushmaster and saboted muzzle loading rounds as well.
> 
> The company was incorporated in 2006 but the owner has been actively designing and developing products for the shooting sports industry for over 30 years. The vision for the business was started over three decades ago about the desire to develop a muzzle loading firearm and ammunition that could achieve extended range one shot kills on the big Whitetails southern Michigan is known for.
> 
> The owner has over 30 years of experience as a mechanical engineer developing products used in the health care, aerospace and heavy industrial hydraulic power systems. His experience in these fields has given him a broad range of experience in the areas of materials and precision manufacturing processes.
> 
> The products displayed on this website have been extensively tested on the range as well as in the field across North America. We will not sell anything we do not use ourselves and feel that it will meet or exceed our performance expectations.


That all sounds great but talk is cheap takes money to buy whiskey! 

Lets see some independent testing. I'm waiting.


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## 98885

Bear creek offers the exact same bullets in sabots for 50 caliber muzzleloaders. Remove the sabot and you have the .452 bullet to load in the 450 bushmaster. There not cheap but if loaded, cheaper in the long run than buying it loaded.


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## DecoySlayer

I am going to try some once the weather warms up a bit. It's a long way until Nov 15th, 2019. 

IF I win a .450 bolt at our DU dinner it will change what I do. Fat chance of that happening. LOL!


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## DecoySlayer

johnIV said:


> Bear creek offers the exact same bullets in sabots for 50 caliber muzzleloaders. Remove the sabot and you have the .452 bullet to load in the 450 bushmaster. There not cheap but if loaded, cheaper in the long run than buying it loaded.


Only IF you already reload. For as many of those rounds I would ever shoot, I likely could never recover the cost of a reloading set up.


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## 98885

DecoySlayer said:


> Only IF you already reload. For as many of those rounds I would ever shoot, I likely could never recover the cost of a reloading set up.


True that. I agree. I'm building my gun for Ohio only. I don't hunt southern Michigan but plan on gun hunting Ohio now that I'm retired. Archery hunting it for years and seeing the quality they offer and places I can stretch a bullet 300 + yards makes sense using the high BC bullets


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## DecoySlayer

Bear Creek has two 240 grain bullets for the .450. One for the AR the other for bolts etc. They only list a 285 grain MZ bullet.


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## 98885

Yep. I'm communicating with them online right now. Believe it or not I'm getting a response on a Sunday. They sent me ballistics of the 285 from a muzzleloader based on 1975 fps. Looks pretty impressive at lower speeds than the BM. At 300 yards still had over 1K ft lbs energy. I'll buy some of the 285 ML sabots and load them in my raptor and see how they run.


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## DecoySlayer

I have found they are a very responsive company. I just wish I could get them out to Pointe Mouillee. I would also like to see them at the Ducks Unlimited State Convention in July.


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## 98885

DecoySlayer said:


> I have found they are a very responsive company. I just wish I could get them out to Pointe Mouillee. I would also like to see them at the Ducks Unlimited State Convention in July.


Used to go the MDH pt mouillee weekend event every year when I lived south. Great show. May have to make it down again. It's been 35 years since I have been at one. Loved going to them.


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## DecoySlayer

I need LOTS of new vendors for that show. Many of my older ones no longer are able to come, some have died.


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## 98885

I imagine. Lots were old timers then. Especially alot of the Carver's and call makers.


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## Bobby072

DecoySlayer said:


> I have found they are a very responsive company. I just wish I could get them out to Pointe Mouillee. I would also like to see them at the Ducks Unlimited State Convention in July.


I just want to see the results on their bullets in terms of accuracy and if the BC values are real at .26 for the 240gr and the 285gr.

Maybe you could sweet talk them into sending you free boxes to test for us.


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## DecoySlayer

Bobby072 said:


> I just want to see the results on their bullets in terms of accuracy and if the BC values are real at .26 for the 240gr and the 285gr.
> 
> Maybe you could sweet talk them into sending you free boxes to test for us.


Except that my rifle will not shoot the 285 grain bullet. I shoot a Bushmaster upper on the AR platform.


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## DecoySlayer

johnIV said:


> I imagine. Lots were old timers then. Especially alot of the Carver's and call makers.



I have several call makers.


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## 98885

You can get close with the bc numbers if you have accurate velocities and good accurate drop data. Regardless of bc numbers, Bear Creek gives the velocities and energy's already of there loads. I'll be testing those 285s in my gun. Velocities will be higher but will have an idea of bullet accuracy and drop based on those velocities. I'll post my results


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## duckman15

Bobby072 said:


> Would you shoot the 240 or 285gr? None of my shots would be over 200 yards so I'm thinking the 285gr might hit harder. What are your thoughts?


I would do the 240 grain bullet.. looking at the Ballistics if you sight in 2” high at 100 it almost zeros at 200 and you don’t have to compensate for anything to 230 yards. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## duckman15

Bobby072 said:


> My issue with the 240gr (which might be the best overall) is my gun and CDS dial are set up for the 250gr hornady. Would throw off my zero and create additional costs and work to get it to shoot the same. I know the 250gr shot many rounds and I know where it will hit.
> 
> Now the 285gr is a very close drop in that might not mess up my turret settings too much. It shoots the same velocity as the 250gr. Bet it kicks more too. But it might shoot very similar to the 250gr with a little less drop.
> 
> Oh and don't try to shoot these with an AR style gun, they are not strong enough to handle the increase load, might tear them apart.


If you sight the gun in at 90 yards instead of 100 it should follow the turret almost perfectly. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## Bobby072

duckman15 said:


> If you sight the gun in at 90 yards instead of 100 it should follow the turret almost perfectly.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Im wondering at 150 yards yards which one hits harder the 285 or the 240gr.


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## 98885

Bobby072 said:


> Im wondering at 150 yards yards which one hits harder the 285 or the 240gr.


Based on the 285 and 240 having the same BC according to bear creek, the 240 takes the title at every range. At 150 yards, the 240 has 2087 fps/ 2322 from lbs VS the 285 at same range with 1820 fps/ 2096 ft lbs. I don't believe personally that both bullets share the same BC. It's probably close due to the 240 having a similar tip to the Amax bullets. The 285s have a polymer tip as well but not nearly as aerodynamic. I'd go for the 240s as they are flatter and arrive with more energy.


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## Bobby072

johnIV said:


> Based on the 285 and 240 having the same BC according to bear creek, the 240 takes the title at every range. At 150 yards, the 240 has 2087 fps/ 2322 from lbs VS the 285 at same range with 1820 fps/ 2096 ft lbs. I don't believe personally that both bullets share the same BC. It's probably close due to the 240 having a similar tip to the Amax bullets. The 285s have a polymer tip as well but not nearly as aerodynamic. I'd go for the 240s as they are flatter and arrive with more energy.


And the 240s probably have a little less felt recoil to boot. 

Hope they shoot as accurately as the Hornady 250s.


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## 98885

Bobby072 said:


> And the 240s probably have a little less felt recoil to boot.
> 
> Hope they shoot as accurately as the Hornady 250s.


Definitely will have less felt recoil provided the gun has some heft. Those are 450 bushmaster stats.


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## Bobby072

johnIV said:


> Definitely will have less felt recoil provided the gun has some heft. Those are 450 bushmaster stats.


Ok since no one else wanted to spend the cash I decided to try some of those Bear Creek 240gr in 450 BM. I'll chono it and see if I get close to the advertised velocity of 2550 fps. I'm thinking maybe 2400 fps from a 16" barrel.


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## 98885

Bobby072 said:


> Ok since no one else wanted to spend the cash I decided to try some of those Bear Creek 240gr in 450 BM. I'll chono it and see if I get close to the advertised velocity of 2550 fps. I'm thinking maybe 2400 fps from a 16" barrel.


You'll only lose or gain 10-15 fps per inch increase or decrease in barrel length with the 450 BM. Not like a traditional shouldered cartridge. May be surprised.


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## Skinner 2

DecoySlayer said:


> Except that my rifle will not shoot the 285 grain bullet. I shoot a Bushmaster upper on the AR platform.


I loaded up Barnes 285 and the fit and worked well.in my 20 in Bushmaster upper. I ended up using 200 grain Barnes for hunting. Love them.


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## Bobby072

Skinner 2 said:


> I loaded up Barnes 285 and the fit and worked well.in my 20 in Bushmaster upper. I ended up using 200 grain Barnes for hunting. Love them.


Worked so well you don't even hunt with it. 

Why you go with 200gr? I might drop down to 240gr but even that seems puny.


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## Bobby072

Ok the Bear Creek 450 ammo is in. Feast your eyes.

The packaging and presentation is very good. 
Got to love that "2590fps Crushing Expansion" line.
































They look too pretty to shoot but I'm going to.

Any guesses on what they will chrono from my Ruger Scout with its 16" barrel?

Also got their Muzzle Loader bullets to try.

I hope they group as well as the Hornady from my gun.


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## GrizzlyHunter

Bobby072 said:


> Yes that is a home made vise, good eye!


Nice Work!!!


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## Bobby072

GrizzlyHunter said:


> Nice Work!!!


If you do get the gun, we tried a little trick on the rings that I did not do because it seems counter productive. 

But we added mineral oil to the rail screws and the rail slots. Its suppose to allow you to wiggle the rings into place easier with the oil. Anyway it seemed to have worked no locktite like I had to use on the same ring screws.


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## Bobby072

CL-Lewiston said:


> I dont usually shoot that far and would have great difficulty 'guesstimating' a hold for that kind of a drop. I suspect 90% of hunters would be in the same boat.
> 
> Ive kinda lusted over a 450 and where I hunt 100 yrds is a 'long' shot, actually last deer was 65 yrds and would still be going had she not stopped and looked back.


I agree while the 450 can do 300 yards I would not feel super confident. 

If the CDS dial is used 300 can be done, just less room for error due to the 3 foot drop.
There are also factory hotter rounds that are 2600 fps up from the standard 2100-2200 range.
https://bearcreekballistics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/bearCreekBulletSlick041619.pdf
if you zero at 100 (I do and know the drops) the drop is 3 feet at 300 for hornady but only 22" at 300 with the hotter bear creek 2550fps ammo. Bear creak zeroed at 200 to make it look better at 300 (only 12" drop) but then its off 2.5 inches at other ranges.

I think its the perfect round for people in the shotgun zone.


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## DecoySlayer

Bobby072 said:


> I think its the perfect round for people in the shotgun zone.



Maybe for some. I do wonder, however, just how many people can make a 300 yard shot, even with a CDS scope. My guess is, that few could, myself included, and more so if there is any kind of cross wind. I would go as far as to say that there is a large number who would have problems at 200 yards. I could several years ago, now, I am not very sure. 

The .350 Legend seems like it just may fit the bill for many "shotgun zone" hunters.


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## Bobby072

DecoySlayer said:


> Maybe for some. I do wonder, however, just how many people can make a 300 yard shot, even with a CDS scope. My guess is, that few could, myself included, and more so if there is any kind of cross wind. I would go as far as to say that there is a large number who would have problems at 200 yards. I could several years ago, now, I am not very sure.
> 
> The .350 Legend seems like it just may fit the bill for many "shotgun zone" hunters.


Yea not saying the Legend is inferior as it has many good things about it, price of ammo, price of gun and far less kick in the shoulder at the range.

I won't take a shot if I don't think I can 100 percent down it. 300 would give me pause unless I practiced at 300. I would not feel super confident at anything past 200 but that is just because I've not shot it that far. Some guys might and those bear creeks have 2x the energy over the hornady at long range. I think the hornady is just over 800 FPE at 300 yards and the beak creak is 2x that at 1600 fpe and 3,300 at point blank.

Agree not many can make that shot but I think guys that put in some range time could.


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## DecoySlayer

Bobby072 said:


> Agree not many can make that shot but I think guys that put in some range time could.


Of course there are people could can make some really long shots. I hunt with a man who can, and does.

I can't, and won't, so, for me, the .350 may just be all I need.


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## DecoySlayer

In fact, I am now heading out to "Supermatch" on North Dixie, to look at a Savage .350. Matt brought one in for me to look at, knowing full well I may not buy it if I don't like it. Good gun shop. They do a lot with both Pointe Mouillee and Monroe Ducks Unlimited. 

I may just end up selling my .450 upper. We shall see.


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## Jaws58

johnIV said:


> How's them 170s shoot ? Pretty light for a .45 caliber bullet. I'm sure there smoking fast tho.


Did not get tight groups so went back to Hornady 250 gr.


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## Jaws58

Bobby072 said:


> Nice shooting Grizzly.
> 
> Yea I think most of the issues with the 450 is scope related. I had issues at first keeping the screws locked down. Blue lock tite fixed it.
> 
> I think the 450 freedom is the best bang for the buck scope for the 450.
> CDS is pre calibrated and close enough.
> 
> My buddy did a pretty good group at 100 once his freedom scope was dialed in.
> 
> His was out of a hawkeye special stainless edition with 20" barrel.
> 
> Well not quite dialed in needs a few clicks to move it left a bit .


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## Jaws58

Get groups just like that with my Scout TD 450 . Congrats


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## 98885

Jaws58 said:


> Did not get tight groups so went back to Hornady 250 gr.


Yeah I'm guessing a little too light for caliber. Most of the 450 Bushmasters have a twist designed for heavier bullets


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## Bobby072

johnIV said:


> Yeah I'm guessing a little too light for caliber. Most of the 450 Bushmasters have a twist designed for heavier bullets


Its not the weight its the length of the bullet. Two identical bullets 250gr one is copper one is lead. The copper will require a faster twist vs the lead even at the same weight. Why? The copper will be longer than the lead bullet.


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## 98885

Bobby072 said:


> Its not the weight its the length of the bullet. Two identical bullets 250gr one is copper one is lead. The copper will require a faster twist vs the lead even at the same weight. Why? The copper will be longer than the lead bullet.


Exactly. No doubt 170 grain 45 caliber bullets going to be a whole lot shorter than a 250 grainer. Obviously it's a bearing surface issue


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## Bobby072

johnIV said:


> Exactly. No doubt 170 grain 45 caliber bullets going to be a whole lot shorter than a 250 grainer. Obviously it's a bearing surface issue


Maybe the 170gr made of copper will be long enough. The twist on the CVAs is only 1/24 the rugers all have 1/16 twist which might be better for really heavy long bullets. 

Are you thinking the 1/16 over spins the 170gr? Well they are trying to make the .450 BM somethings its not. Trying to put light bullets in a large .45 caliber just not going to cut it. 

I think the range is 200-300 for copper and 240-350 for lead. I think they just want to advertise higher velocities to sell bullets. The current 250gr Hornady is the gold standard to beat. Very accurate and dumps most the energy into the game.


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## GrizzlyHunter

Bobby072 said:


> Maybe the 170gr made of copper will be long enough. The twist on the CVAs is only 1/24 the rugers all have 1/16 twist which might be better for really heavy long bullets.
> 
> Are you thinking the 1/16 over spins the 170gr? Well they are trying to make the .450 BM somethings its not. Trying to put light bullets in a large .45 caliber just not going to cut it.
> 
> I think the range is 200-300 for copper and 240-350 for lead. I think they just want to advertise higher velocities to sell bullets. The current 250gr Hornady is the gold standard to beat. Very accurate and dumps most the energy into the game.


I would agree that the 250gr Hornady is very accurate and is "currently" the gold standard to beat. I do hope somebody beats it though and does so soon.

I have had the opportunity to use my .450BM on three big game animals (one bear and two deer) and have observed very mixed results with respect to the bullet performance. At the risk of being flamed I will say that all three were one shot kills, but only one was a quick one shot kill. Two of the three bullets did not hold together well which probably contributed to the fact that the bullet did not pass through. The third did pass through and resulted in a good blood trail, however the animal was still alive when we tracked him down 25 minutes later. The shot that killed the quickest was not a pass through, barley bled at all, and took an hour and a half to find the deer due to no blood trail and being shot late in the day.

In summary I feel the accuracy is fantastic. But the actual bullet performance is fair at best. Hopefully the bullet manufacturers can develop higher quality bullets that will improve their performance soon.


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## 98885

Bobby072 said:


> Maybe the 170gr made of copper will be long enough. The twist on the CVAs is only 1/24 the rugers all have 1/16 twist which might be better for really heavy long bullets.
> 
> Are you thinking the 1/16 over spins the 170gr? Well they are trying to make the .450 BM somethings its not. Trying to put light bullets in a large .45 caliber just not going to cut it.
> 
> I think the range is 200-300 for copper and 240-350 for lead. I think they just want to advertise higher velocities to sell bullets. The current 250gr Hornady is the gold standard to beat. Very accurate and dumps most the energy into the game.


I have a 45 Raptor with a 20 twist 24" barrel. I prefer the 240s as they shoot the best in my gun. At 2650 fps and 100 yards, they shoot .50-.75 MOA. The 180s shot over 3000 fps and accuracy was not good. The 200-270s shoot best but the 240s are what mine likes the most.


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## Chappy410

Have to agree wit Grizzly Hunter. 250FTX is great for accuracy but fragments on impact. Not a suitable bullet for deer.


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## Bobby072

GrizzlyHunter said:


> I would agree that the 250gr Hornady is very accurate and is "currently" the gold standard to beat. I do hope somebody beats it though and does so soon.
> 
> I have had the opportunity to use my .450BM on three big game animals (one bear and two deer) and have observed very mixed results with respect to the bullet performance. At the risk of being flamed I will say that all three were one shot kills, but only one was a quick one shot kill. Two of the three bullets did not hold together well which probably contributed to the fact that the bullet did not pass through. The third did pass through and resulted in a good blood trail, however the animal was still alive when we tracked him down 25 minutes later. The shot that killed the quickest was not a pass through, barley bled at all, and took an hour and a half to find the deer due to no blood trail and being shot late in the day.
> 
> In summary I feel the accuracy is fantastic. But the actual bullet performance is fair at best. Hopefully the bullet manufacturers can develop higher quality bullets that will improve their performance soon.


Yes for some reason people will flame you over a bullet or brand they love. 

If you are wanting full pass-through then coppers are probably better. I like the full pass and double lung shot. They might not instant drop like a high shoulder shot but they are not going very far with two collapsed lungs and with two holes you will be able to track it easier.


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## GrizzlyHunter

Bobby072 said:


> Yes for some reason people will flame you over a bullet or brand they love.
> 
> If you are wanting full pass-through then coppers are probably better. I like the full pass and double lung shot. They might not instant drop like a high shoulder shot but they are not going very far with two collapsed lungs and with two holes you will be able to track it easier.


Unfortunately I don't reload. Would you have any suggestions for ammo?


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## Bobby072

GrizzlyHunter said:


> Unfortunately I don't reload. Would you have any suggestions for ammo?


 There are some new factory bullets coming out so maybe wait a bit

Right now (price aside)
1. Bear Creek 240 gr 2550 fps (copper) are probably the best. 
https://bearcreekballistics.com/product/450-bushmaster-240-grain-ammo/

2. Black Butterfly 
https://www.blackbutterflyammunition.com/pages/450-bushmaster-275-grain-barnes-xpb

3. Hornady 250gr


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## 98885

Chappy410 said:


> john,
> I don't disagree with what you say, my point is that the majority of deer killed in Michigan are 100 yards or less.


Agreed. My case in S. Michigan is the same, less than 150. I just don't hunt southern Mi. My trips to Ohio offer power line, coal property open shooting opportunities. Initially I planned on using the gun in S Mi. Just didn't have any good available locations that weren't full of orange


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## Ken

It depends on the type of bullet and quality. The 200 grain Barnes will outperform the 250 FTX any day.
I wouldn't give 2 cents for any of the bullets under 200 grains. The only way they can gain enough length is by adding polymer or another non metal to make it longer, or have a huge hollow core. No, I'm not paying obscene prices for half plastic bullets.


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