# gun season in michigan



## deerhunter1989 (Feb 21, 2011)

what does everyone think??


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

I think a lot of gun hunters will frown on your post and throw a few shots at the bowhunters
.. shorter season.. changing the date....its been discussed, but always entertaining


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## HUBBHUNTER (Aug 8, 2007)

Gun season should start Dec. 1st and run until Jan.1.

Bow hunt for bucks, gun hunt to drink beer.:lol:


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

deerhunter1989 said:


> I think it would help out the michigan deer herd if we didnt have one such a long gun season and two the gun season right in the middle of the rut! I know other states that have big bucks in the books every year dont have a long gun season..... what does everyone think??


Hmm something seems a little fishy now.


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## deerhunter1989 (Feb 21, 2011)

HUBBHUNTER said:


> Gun season should start Dec. 1st and run until Jan.1.
> 
> Bow hunt for bucks, gun hunt to drink beer.:lol:


now thats my kinda season!!!


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## Don Walters Jr (Dec 21, 2009)

I couldn't agree more. Our gun season ruins things and it's not just all "bow hunters" who feel this way. It's about time Michigan starts learning from our Midwestern and neighboring States. Not only is a change in the length and timing of our gun season necessary, but so to is the buck rule. It needs to be changed to a one buck rule (or heavier restrictions) so people are more selective and more bucks are protected each year. It seems SO simple........however, most guys can't set their egos aside or whatever it is that makes them feel like they have to shoot multiple bucks each year to feel like they're "good/successful hunters", to make a difderence. It's just the old school approach and mentality of a lot of hunters that continue to hold Michigan down from producing more quality bucks as a whole. Attitudes and tactics are changing as people are being educated and start to see the success' QDM CO-OPs across the state are having. I know kids who are adhering to a one buck rule and passing quality bucks each year, which is very promising. It also begs the question, if todays youth are able to recognize this, why can't all of us do our part to make Michigan a better place to hunt, now and in the future? Instead of focusing only how many bucks we can put on the wall each year, why not focus on making some personal sacrifices to make things better for everyone.

_- "If ya can't beat 'em, join 'em."_


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## Quack R (Oct 7, 2010)

I think we need a late january deer season.


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## deerhunter1989 (Feb 21, 2011)

Don Walters Jr said:


> I couldn't agree more. Our gun season ruins things and it's not just all "bow hunters" who feel this way. It's about time Michigan starts learning from our Midwestern and neighboring States. Not only is a change in the length and timing of our gun season necessary, but so to is the buck rule. It needs to be changed to a one buck rule (or heavier restrictions) so people are more selective and more bucks are protected each year. It seems SO simple........however, most guys can't set their egos aside or whatever it is that makes them feel like they have to shoot multiple bucks each year to feel like they're "good/successful hunters", to make a difderence. It's just the old school approach and mentality of a lot of hunters that continue to hold Michigan down from producing more quality bucks as a whole. Attitudes and tactics are changing as people are being educated and start to see the success' QDM CO-OPs across the state are having. I know kids who are adhering to a one buck rule and passing quality bucks each year, which is very promising. It also begs the question, if todays youth are able to recognize this, why can't all of us do our part to make Michigan a better place to hunt, now and in the future? Instead of focusing only how many bucks we can put on the wall each year, why not focus on making some personal sacrifices to make things better for everyone.
> 
> _- "If ya can't beat 'em, join 'em."_


 i couldnt agree more!! if michigan wants to make money y not produce whitetails like wisconsin ohio nebraska iowa kansas. a tag there for non resident goes for 400$!!!!!!!!! no one wants to come here and i know a lot of people including myself that go out of state for a crack at a nice buck....why cuz yah there are some in select areas of michigan but def not in the whole state.


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## deerhunter1989 (Feb 21, 2011)

Quack R said:


> I think we need a late january deer season.


And this wouldnt hurt anything either...


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## Don Walters Jr (Dec 21, 2009)

deerhunter1989 said:


> i couldnt agree more!! if michigan wants to make money y not produce whitetails like wisconsin ohio nebraska iowa kansas. a tag there for non resident goes for 400$!!!!!!!!! no one wants to come here and i know a lot of people including myself that go out of state for a crack at a nice buck....why cuz yah there are some in select areas of michigan but def not in the whole state.


Exactly. It's all about money in the end. It will take someone with enough of it to say, "Hey State Of Michigan, I, or my foundation will make up for all of your lost revenue after you put these changes into effect." Also, because Michigan is broke up into such small land parcels vs. other Midwestern States, it's tough to make an impact by just controlling your own property. This is why cooperation is so necessary to make a difference. I don't care if you hunt with a rifle, shotgun, oozie, compound bow, long bow, Atlatal or a knife.........every hunter with a true passion for it, wants to take a quality buck at some point.



_- "If ya can't beat 'em, join 'em."_


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

By the time gun season rolls around my button buck quota has been filled, wrapped and stuffed in the freezer.  Thanks to the evil crossbow, bow season is only hours long not days.  I seem to spend more money at deer camp, I cant seem to win at cards and drink way more than I should.


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## deerhunter1989 (Feb 21, 2011)

Spartan88 said:


> By the time gun season rolls around my button buck quota has been filled, wrapped and stuffed in the freezer.  Thanks to the evil crossbow, bow season is only hours long not days.  I seem to spend more money at deer camp, I cant seem to win at cards and drink way more than I should.


hey whatever floats your boat bud


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## localyahoo (May 28, 2009)

I do both(gun/bow). Since I hunt in SE MI mainly I wouldn't mind one bit for the later opener for gun season. In my neck of the woods gun season starts nov 15 and lasts til dec 30th. I really miss the days of sitting in my stand at the end of december and would see a few bucks, but now that we have a late doe gun season, My sighting have gone way down. I wouldn't mind having a january gun hunt.


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## deerhunter1989 (Feb 21, 2011)

i would settle for a january muzzleloader hunt even


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## Enigma (Jan 30, 2006)

Gun hunting should be the hole month of oct.:lol:


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

We wouldn't have to change anything if Michigan didn't allow bucks to be shot before the rut.


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## mathewshooter (Feb 3, 2011)

Michigan will never be like some of the big buck states because we have a lot more hunters than any of those states, but I am in favor of a OBR. One buck, shoot whatever you are happy with and don't worry about what your neighbors think.


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## Dale87 (Dec 19, 2008)

mathewshooter said:


> Michigan will never be like some of the big buck states because we have a lot more hunters than any of those states


Don't worry people like the OP are working on taking care of that problem.


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## WAUB-MUKWA (Dec 13, 2003)

deerhunter1989 said:


> what does everyone think??


I don't know, 90 days straight to hunt with a bow and 2 weeks for rifle season? Where's the problem?  I used to fill all my tags the first week of October.


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## old graybeard (Jan 19, 2006)

I think Michigan should have a gun seasonWe pretty much have one now that opens on November 15th and runs to January 1st.


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## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

Putman Lake Campground said:


> I was reading today that a good goat farmer has 1 billy to about 27 - 35 nannies. A excellent breeder has 1 billy to 50 nannies. The variable being that a good goat operation provides for 3 pregnancies for every 2 years, rotating stock. therefore, since deer are in the goat family (aren't they?)


First, Goats are in the family Bovidae and white-tails in the family Cervidae.

Second, white-tails are a natural resource - why should they be managed like a domestic population (ie a farm) instead of like a wild population?



> If we want more bucks we need to shoot less does.


The problem in much of Michigan isn't a lack of bucks, it's a lack of antlered/older deer. There are plenty of button bucks in Michigan, it's just the vast majority don't make it past 1.5 yrs old. It is the selfish wants of hunters that lead to overpopulation in many areas of this state - those who want more bucks and, therefore, refuse to (or can't) shoot does.


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## Putman Lake Campground (Oct 4, 2010)

Radar420 said:


> First, Goats are in the family Bovidae and white-tails in the family Cervidae.
> 
> Second, white-tails are a natural resource - why should they be managed like a domestic population (ie a farm) instead of like a wild population?
> 
> ...



I never did really know if they were or weren't but with all the goat stories and jokes, and remarkable resemblance in characteristics... etc. I wasn't sure. so are they different subspecies?

The comparison was for demonstration purposes. What it shows is how many does a buck should be able to breed successfully.

I didn't know we had an over population of bucks? I realize that insurance companies could argue that point. And mega farmers also agree that there are too many deer are eating their crops. But I just don't remember an issue of over population of bucks.

Of course if we had more does, in turn more bottom bucks, then there would be more bottom bucks that stand a chance of becoming mature bucks.

I think I'll steer clear of the doe issue. I have my beliefs and I have my practices, and then we have the law/s, I Personally stay in check with all three and ad ethics to it also. (Oops I said I'd steer clear.. darn...).


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## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

Putman Lake Campground said:


> I didn't know we had an over population of bucks?
> 
> Of course if we had more does, in turn more bottom bucks, then there would be more bottom bucks that stand a chance of becoming mature bucks.
> 
> I think I'll steer clear of the doe issue. I have my beliefs and I have my practices, and then we have the law/s, I Personally stay in check with all three and ad ethics to it also. (Oops I said I'd steer clear.. darn...).


We have an overpopulation of deer in much of the state - which includes a fair portion of button bucks. (remember just because they don't have antlers yet, they are still bucks)

I don't know where you hunt, the habitat you're in, what kinds of numbers you see while hunting, or what your harvest statistics are but I can give my thoughts on flaws to your argument. From sheerly a hunter's perspective, who wouldn't want to see more bucks (read: antlered deer)? No one, right? To get more bucks we need to pass on shooting does. If everyone decided to not shoot does, then how do we control the population since it's the females giving birth every year (often times to twin fawns). Over population leads to habitat loss and changes in herd dynamics which can cause a host of other problems.

If people truly want to see more bucks they should push for rules that limit buck harvest or just personally limit themselves in what they harvest and try and convince others the same. 

As for the last part of your post, as long as you are being legal and ethical in your pursuits, then that is all one can really ask for


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## Putman Lake Campground (Oct 4, 2010)

Radar420 said:


> We have an overpopulation of deer in much of the state - which includes a fair portion of button bucks. (remember just because they don't have antlers yet, they are still bucks)
> 
> I don't know where you hunt, the habitat you're in, what kinds of numbers you see while hunting, or what your harvest statistics are but I can give my thoughts on flaws to your argument. From sheerly a hunter's perspective, who wouldn't want to see more bucks (read: antlered deer)? No one, right? To get more bucks we need to pass on shooting does. If everyone decided to not shoot does, then how do we control the population since it's the females giving birth every year (often times to twin fawns). Over population leads to habitat loss and changes in herd dynamics which can cause a host of other problems.
> 
> ...


Geesh, I don't want to offend you. But yes, deer numbers are down. I hunt Calhoun county, Newaygo county Mecosta county, Oceana County Mason county and Lake county, for the most part. Not to say I don't venture out of those areas. (It's been a number of years since I've hunted the east side of the state).

I've been hunting since... `1974? there about's (heck I don't remember for sure). Yep missed a couple years here and there (like while deployed in the military, but substituted hunting/fishing with other field knowledge). 

I'm sure there's an area that has a high deer population. Lets Take Albion for Example.. way too many down town. Leave town and it's another story. I sincerely can't think of an area where the deer herd is up.

I've been a lot of places, hunted a lot of areas, killed a lot of deer and have never seen the population as low as it is today, regardless of what scientists in Lansing report, regardless of where I hunt.

I suppose I should ask you.. where in Michigan is the deer herd too high and what supporting evidence do we have to attest to that? By what standard are they too high?


Hmm, I was looking at your profile.. it says you are in the field 100 days a year, and live in royal oaks so that means you are in the field 50 weekends a year (both days)? I have to say I"m very impressed. There was a time I fished/hunted 2 to 3 times a week religiously feeding the family, etc and I know exactly how much work that dedication was. but I only had to walk out my door to get the game. You have to drive nearly an hour or better. How do you do it?


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## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

Putman Lake Campground said:


> I suppose I should ask you.. where in Michigan is the deer herd too high and what supporting evidence do we have to attest to that? By what standard are they too high?


Much of the SLP is way over DNR population goals - some as much as 200%. There are areas of the UP that have too many deer and negatively affect the deer yards through over browsing which affects carrying capacity. Parts of the NELP were/are overpopulated as evidence by disease in the herd. I hunt in Osceola County - if you look in my album you will see dramatic browse lines on multiple conifers (some species of which are considered starvation foods). There is also an absence of some preferred browse species due to too many deer over browsing as well as an increase in the number of invasive species in our terrestrial ecosystem.

http://www.nature.org/ourinitiative.../placesweprotect/Deer-Hunting-in-Michigan.xml

If you want to see a lot of deer, come to the Leroy/Tustin area one evening and you will see hundreds.



> How do you do it?


I'm single.  I work outside, am pretty much my own boss so I make my own hours, and winter is my slow time for work until the ground thaws. I have plenty of lakes and parks less than an hour away. I make it out 4-5 times a week to ice-fish and have several areas to mushroom hunt down here all year long. Not to mention turkey, grouse, deer, duck, and mushroom seasons up north.

I have to ask - are you a public land hunter?


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## belden148 (Nov 15, 2007)

Radar420 said:


> Much of the SLP is way over DNR population goals - some as much as 200%. There are areas of the UP that have too many deer and negatively affect the deer yards through over browsing which affects carrying capacity. Parts of the NELP were/are overpopulated as evidence by disease in the herd. I hunt in Osceola County - if you look in my album you will see dramatic browse lines on multiple conifers (some species of which are considered starvation foods). There is also an absence of some preferred browse species due to too many deer over browsing as well as an increase in the number of invasive species in our terrestrial ecosystem.
> 
> http://www.nature.org/ourinitiative.../placesweprotect/Deer-Hunting-in-Michigan.xml
> 
> ...


If you are seeing hundreds of deer in the leroy tustin area you have yourself one hell of a honey hole. I'm from Reed City/Chase area, about 10-15 minutes south of leroy/tustin, and I've hunted all through there. Yeah there are deer there, but not by the hundreds. We've got private property that we hunt that's literally 4 miles to the west of MR. Pibs (down town Leroy) and you are lucky to see a doe every couple of hunts.


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## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

belden148 said:


> If you are seeing hundreds of deer in the leroy tustin area you have yourself one hell of a honey hole. I'm from Reed City/Chase area, about 10-15 minutes south of leroy/tustin, and I've hunted all through there. Yeah there are deer there, but not by the hundreds. We've got private property that we hunt that's literally 4 miles to the west of MR. Pibs (down town Leroy) and you are lucky to see a doe every couple of hunts.


I just got back from an ice-fishing trip up north. In one night, I counted 352 deer - could've been more if I used the spotlight. And that's right now, in March. Imagine how many deer there will be once they drop fawns.

Start at the dairy farms at 18mi and 140th by Rose Lake (one of those fields had legitimately over 100 deer in it) Then take 17mi and drive East and tell me how many deer you see. Most of the browse line photos in my album came from 110th so you can check around there too.

A few years ago during hunting season, I saw over 400 deer in/around my property and I can't remember a season where I've ever seen less than 100


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

I'm less enamored by gun season in Michigan with every passing year. I always hunt the opener until about 2:00 and then head to town to run our buck pole. If I didn't have this responsibility I would definitely consider leaving Michigan at sundown on Nov. 14th for a few days of archery hunting in Ohio, Iowa, Kansas, etc.
If my only choice of places to hunt was public land, I'd give up the buck pole in a heart beat.

Big T


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## wallhd (Nov 14, 2010)

I like the sounds of a January muzzleloader season too. Dec. is a bit early because things haven't settled down yet.


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## captjimtc (Aug 10, 2005)

I would leave gun season the same except limited it to 1 buck only and the same with bow hunting. If you do both you must shoot only 1 buck and if offered in your unit you can shoot a doe on a doe permit. Abolish the 2 buck rule altogether. Gun season needs to be two weeks long. The last 2 bucks I shot have been in the last couple days of rifle season not the first couple.


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## deerhunter1989 (Feb 21, 2011)

captjimtc said:


> I would leave gun season the same except limited it to 1 buck only and the same with bow hunting. If you do both you must shoot only 1 buck and if offered in your unit you can shoot a doe on a doe permit. Abolish the 2 buck rule altogether. Gun season needs to be two weeks long. The last 2 bucks I shot have been in the last couple days of rifle season not the first couple.


The one buck rule would be fine!! But seriously i really dont think theres to many people that can say thay fill both their buck tags every year. sooo


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## Enigma (Jan 30, 2006)

brushbuster said:


> I usually hunt for my guns in Sep are there better deals in Oct.


Yes there is.But deer rifle season should start oct-1 and end nov-14 and start again dec-1 and end jan-1


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## Putman Lake Campground (Oct 4, 2010)

Radar420 said:


> Much of the SLP is way over DNR population goals - some as much as 200%. There are areas of the UP that have too many deer and negatively affect the deer yards through over browsing which affects carrying capacity.


Over populated by DNR goals? I can argue this but I'll try to behave. DNR goals are largely determined as a result of political activists aka environmentalist and insurance companies, not just nature's needs.

I have to agree with more housing and mega farming there is less natural habitat for them than there used to be.

I will argue that I don't think the original 500,000 was an accurate figure do to pre historic calculation methods and calculated from Lansing and NOT from the woods. (Additionally, I've grown up with at least two of the states top DNR officials that work with our wild life and frankly they didn't live in the country, they rarely hunted or fished, their knowledge was gained via classroom education and field work as an officer. That is NOT to slight them one bit. They impress me, literally. And I'm very thankful that they made it to the top and to have them on our side. But the fact still remains that they lack the experience of those that spend days a week in the woods and learning the true facts of our wooded nature and it's inhabitants.

I've yet to see a wood lot diminish from over grazing of deer. I have seen years of heavy snow fall a lot of skinny deer by the time spring gets here (starvation, and natural selection process at work).



Radar420 said:


> Parts of the NELP were/are overpopulated as evidence by disease in the herd.


Disease's: 

TB: something we the farmers passed on to the deer? I'm not sure but that's what I was led to believe. 

CWD: I think they for got to publish that, although the locals suspected CWD in the private herd, that the state found negative samples. My hats off to our public officials that banned baiting until the final determination. It was a nice horse to ride and keep the long awaited bait ban in place that the environmentalists have pushed for ages. 

(Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed hunting much more prior to baiting. It took an educated hunter to fill their tags, rather than an individual with a bag of feed and a weapon)

But, the unpublished fact (and I could be wrong) is that CWD never did exist in that isolated private herd). And, that private herd had no contact with the deer outside of their elaborate fencing system. And further there has been no evidence of CWD from our deer herds in MI or nearby states. It was merely suspected, and via the states facilities, determined it a false alarm (the news and politicians forgot to publish that).



Radar420 said:


> There is also an absence of some preferred browse species due to too many deer over browsing as well as an increase in the number of invasive species in our terrestrial ecosystem.


This is the first I've heard of invasive species in our terrestrial ecosystem. Please elaborate and further educate us.



Radar420 said:


> I hunt in Osceola County - if you look in my album you will see dramatic browse lines on multiple conifers (some species of which are considered starvation foods).


I'll give that a peek.

http://www.nature.org/ourinitiative.../placesweprotect/Deer-Hunting-in-Michigan.xml


Radar420 said:


> http://www.nature.org/ourinitiative.../placesweprotect/Deer-Hunting-in-Michigan.xml


Nice site. I'm wondering how many true outdoors people are on their board, rather than desk jocky's? Not to slight them. they do have a serious part of maintaining our ecological system. But they'd be more effective if they had a wider variety of education to include having been in the woods for extended periods of time. (aka more than one school of thought)

(I can give examples of more than one professor in masters level studies, that have taught totally wrong information to their master level students).




Radar420 said:


> If you want to see a lot of deer, come to the Leroy/Tustin area one evening and you will see hundreds.


I hunt Tustin area too. Yes there is a nice herd remaining there, but it has also dwindled to a small extent. Over population: Not that I've witnessed. I also understand that "over population is a relative term, dependent upon what ones perspective of over populated is. I've yet to see scientific, factual evidence of overpopulation. (I've yet to look at your photo's too)



Radar420 said:


> I'm single.  I work outside, am pretty much my own boss so I make my own hours, and winter is my slow time for work until the ground thaws. I have plenty of lakes and parks less than an hour away. I make it out 4-5 times a week to ice-fish and have several areas to mushroom hunt down here all year long. Not to mention turkey, grouse, deer, duck, and mushroom seasons up north.


That's awesome!! hopefully when you get married and have children you can keep it up to an extent and pass our diminishing hunting/fishing traditions down to your children, etc. 

(we already have a nice crop of mushrooms sprouting on our firewood I don't know what they are called but pleased since it's a new thing in town to try to grow these on their own and ours just popped up! Stompers here on the campground last year were out of this world plentiful. I've never mushroom hunted accept morals and puff balls. We had so many beef steaks on the property the spring before last that we couldn't hardly avoid stepping on them.)





Radar420 said:


> I have to ask - are you a public land hunter?


I hunt both private and public lands.

I'm enjoying the education that you have and are sharing with us. I do strongly suggest you enjoy some of the education that the ol timers that have all but lived in the woods have to share. There is often a huge contrast between what scientists demonstrate and the reality of those in the woods have experienced/witnessed.


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## Putman Lake Campground (Oct 4, 2010)

belden148 said:


> If you are seeing hundreds of deer in the leroy tustin area you have yourself one hell of a honey hole. I'm from Reed City/Chase area, about 10-15 minutes south of leroy/tustin, and I've hunted all through there. Yeah there are deer there, but not by the hundreds. We've got private property that we hunt that's literally (deleted in quote) miles to the west of MR. Pibs (down town Leroy) and you are lucky to see a doe every couple of hunts.


Give me a holler Belden, I might could give you a hand, I can't be everywhere all at once. (not to mention my disabilities)......

but you are right, the numbers are down.


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## Putman Lake Campground (Oct 4, 2010)

Radar420 said:


> I just got back from an ice-fishing trip up north. In one night, I counted 352 deer - could've been more if I used the spotlight. And that's right now, in March. Imagine how many deer there will be once they drop fawns.
> 
> Start at the dairy farms at 18mi and 140th by Rose Lake (one of those fields had legitimately over 100 deer in it) Then take 17mi and drive East and tell me how many deer you see. Most of the browse line photos in my album came from 110th so you can check around there too.
> 
> A few years ago during hunting season, I saw over 400 deer in/around my property and I can't remember a season where I've ever seen less than 100


the deer you counted are ALL of the deer in that area. and how many times did you count the deer twice? I"ll explain that common mistake in another post.

:help:


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## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

Putman Lake Campground said:


> Over populated by DNR goals? I can argue this but I'll try to behave. DNR goals are largely determined as a result of political activists aka environmentalist and insurance companies, not just nature's needs.


The DNR's budget is largely funded through license dollars from hunters and fisherman. Therefore they have to appease several hundred thousand hunters (all of which have a different attitude in terms of best management policy) if they want them to continue to purchase permits and fund the DNR.



Putman Lake Campground said:


> I will argue that I don't think the original 500,000 was an accurate figure do to pre historic calculation methods and calculated from Lansing and NOT from the woods.


Prior to European settlement, Michigan was largely an old growth forest with habitat that was more suited to moose and elk. There were far fewer deer then than there are now.



Putman Lake Campground said:


> I've yet to see a wood lot diminish from over grazing of deer.


While reading these, keep in mind that Lake and Osceola counties are managed for ~40 DPSM - which is a higher population goal than almost every county in Michigan, including all that farmland in the SLP

http://www2.dnr.cornell.edu/ext/bmp/contents/nonharvest/non_damage.htm

http://www.minnpost.com/stories/2008/02/25/976/deer_herds_devouring_forest_seedlings_urban_hostas

http://www.prudenceisland.us/prud/i...impacts_of_overabundant_white-tailed-deer.htm

http://www.deerandforests.org/resources/High deer number hurting state forests.pdf

http://www.audubonmagazine.org/incite/incite0203.html

http://www.audubonmagazine.org/incite/incite0507.html

http://www.deerandforests.org/resources/1-Whitetails are changing.pdf




Putman Lake Campground said:


> TB: something we the farmers passed on to the deer? I'm not sure but that's what I was led to believe.


I never mentioned CWD but in response to TB - would deer have contracted the disease if there weren't so many of them to begin with?



Putman Lake Campground said:


> This is the first I've heard of invasive species in our terrestrial ecosystem. Please elaborate and further educate us.


Hmm, the link I had to some MSU research is now dead but to put it simply deer have preferred browse, secondary browse, and starvation foods. When deer get to high population levels, they will decimate the preferred browse and secondary browse species leaving starvation foods and invasive plant species such as autumn olive or buckthorn. Deer never evolved with these invasive species and thus they exhibit little browsing pressure so when deer eat all of their preferred and secondary species we get left with a bunch of non-native species.



Putman Lake Campground said:


> Over population: Not that I've witnessed. I also understand that "over population is a relative term, dependent upon what ones perspective of over populated is.


Yep many hunter's in Michigan, regardless of how many deer they see, will always think that they are underpopulated. I experience that all too much.



Putman Lake Campground said:


> There is often a huge contrast between what scientists demonstrate and the reality of those in the woods have experienced/witnessed.


This is very true. 

In the interest of not trying to derail this thread any further - if you have anymore questions shoot me a PM and I'll see if I can explain things better. I also have several more links of interest.


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## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

Putman Lake Campground said:


> the deer you counted are ALL of the deer in that area. and how many times did you count the deer twice? I"ll explain that common mistake in another post.


If you are referring to my hunting sightings, I realize that many of those deer are the same deer. However, it is not uncommon for me to see 40 individual deer at one time on my 80 - it has happened to me many times.

If you are referring to my recent sightings that was 352 individual deer - I never back tracked.


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## Putman Lake Campground (Oct 4, 2010)

Radar420 said:


> In the interest of not trying to derail this thread any further - if you have anymore questions shoot me a PM and I'll see if I can explain things better. I also have several more links of interest.


I think we could go a long ways to educate each other on the middle ground we are missing out on.

your knowledge is impressive, whether or not I agree with it.

again thank you and especially for the resources.


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## hunting man (Mar 2, 2005)

Open October first and run through the first of the year. Weapon of choice.


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

hunting man said:


> Open October first and run through the first of the year. Weapon of choice.


 WOW dusting one off thats a week old.... must be bored eh'
Try trolling your bait tipped with a bowhunter:lol:


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