# Surplus salmon



## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Hey look...now we can buy those surplus salmon we paid for, and then paid someone to take away. What a deal !!

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/09/surplus_michigan_salmon_availa.html


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## dinoday (Feb 22, 2004)

I stayed at R&J in Brethren last year and they were picking up these fish for people and I got a look at them.
Some of the nastiest looking boots you've ever seen. 
Even a smoker wouldn't have fixed those things


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

swampbuck said:


> Hey look...now we can buy those surplus salmon we paid for, and then paid someone to take away. What a deal !!
> .......


Are you suggesting that these fish be handed out for free ?

L & O


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Yes, that would be a great idea, pick them up at the weir. Hell make it a liberalised zone. That not any worse than paying people to scoop them out and sell them.

Actually there was a time when they did give them away. I don't know what the details were, but several years ago they would be distributed on a schedule, the VFW hall in Roscommon would get them packed on ice to give out to those in need.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

I wouldn't eat one of those things if you paid me. Fun to catch yes, but to eat no thanks. The little skippers fresh out of the lake are good .


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

stickbow shooter said:


> I wouldn't eat one of those things if you paid me. Fun to catch yes, but to eat no thanks. The little skippers fresh out of the lake are good .


Any king that even gets close to nosing the river is inedible in my opinion. Always people looking for a "fresh" salmon handout. 

Coho seem to be edible for a short period once they hit the river, but the flesh gets soft fast. I wouldn't mind a couple fresh coho for the smoker, but wouldn't eat them out of this batch that has been in the river 2 weeks already. I guess I'm a bit of a meat snob when it comes to salmon and steelhead.


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

The bill the contractor sends to the DNR to remove these fish from the weir averages 160k per year .... to be fair the DNR bills them 160k per year for the fish . That figure is negotiated and based on the lowest possible ground cat food price ... but when the contractor is allowed to harvest fresh coho before the public is done with them they are allowed to sell it as prime foodgrade salmon and very pricey caviar and make millions . And pay the DNR or public nothing more.


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

Again to be fair when i called and talked to the contractor and asked they would not give me that information... they are a private company and do not legally have to provide it to me . But the contractor is basically doing the same work as TempoTech and why that was such a big deal was because it was for millions of dollars… but that was only disclosed in the court case… Read it it is on line.And with the weird barter system set up with DNR exchanging fish for labor ed could not quote me an hourly rate that they are being billed . But it is funny that the total always seems to be 160k and nearly balance no matter how much or little is said to be removed ... into the moderators when the DNR flag for this and ask you to have it locked can you at least give an explanation as to why


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Huntingguy23 said:


> ..... ... into the moderators when the DNR flag for this and ask you to have it locked can you at least give an explanation as to why


An unimpeachable source has informed me that a black helicopter will soon be landing in your backyard.

L & O


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## danthebuilder (Nov 22, 2011)

So, start a company and underbid them. Since they are making "millions" of dollars.


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## Jimbos (Nov 21, 2000)

Huntingguy23 said:


> Again to be fair when i called and talked to the contractor and asked they would not give me that information... they are a private company and do not legally have to provide it to me . But the contractor is basically doing the same work as TempoTech and why that was such a big deal was because it was for millions of dollars… but that was only disclosed in the court case… Read it it is on line.And with the weird barter system set up with DNR exchanging fish for labor ed could not quote me an hourly rate that they are being billed . But it is funny that the total always seems to be 160k and nearly balance no matter how much or little is said to be removed ... into the moderators when the DNR flag for this and ask you to have it locked can you at least give an explanation as to why


You must be getting close to the truth, the DNR fanboys are coming out of the woodwork.


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## wyandot (Dec 5, 2013)

Liver and Onions said:


> Are you suggesting that these fish be handed out for free ?
> 
> If there's that much of a surplus, perhaps folks that want them should be allowed to harvest them however they see fit. Nets, Spears, baseball bats, get in your 10 fish as quick as possible and go home.
> 
> ...


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

danthebuilder said:


> So, start a company and underbid them. Since they are making "millions" of dollars.


The bidding process is on the todo list.... it all takes tome .... or Mark or Jay could speed up the process . .... But honestly I would not bid on work that i feel is unethical.... those fish were not brought here to be stuffed into a plastic tote . You can not ethically plant more fish than you have room for .... continuing to plant those fish there while having an agreement to only pass 20k is unthinkable... and to do it where there are so many barriers to the anglers to properly access the resource . ....


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## FishMichv2 (Oct 18, 2004)

No thanks, I'll just go catch what I need and there are plenty to fish for. I feel like some of you would whine if they gave them to people who hadn't bought the terribly expensive fishing license. Maybe some of you who are complaining about this should volunteer at the weirs and hatcheries so you can see what all goes into it. Maybe we could save ourselves from paying that enormous fee of a fishing license. Chances are you will realize that the help received from the contractor who buys these fish might be providing a nice symbiotic relationship..


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## mrjimspeaks (Aug 23, 2009)

If someone was so inclined a FOIA request might shine some light on things...


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## FishMichv2 (Oct 18, 2004)

Huntingguy23 said:


> The bidding process is on the todo list.... it all takes tome .... or Mark or Jay could speed up the process . .... But honestly I would not bid on work that i feel is unethical.... those fish were not brought here to be stuffed into a plastic tote . You can not ethically plant more fish than you have room for .... continuing to plant those fish there while having an agreement to only pass 20k is unthinkable... and to do it where there are so many barriers to the anglers to properly access the resource . ....


do you know how often they get a 20000 fish return in the Platte? Do you realize the hatchery on the Platte is where all of our Coho come from? Do you know why the Platte was chosen? Do you ask yourself what happens if not enough Coho return to the Platte? Do you think there are 10000 Coho at a time sitting behind the lower weir every year? Do you think it's simple to predict returns? Do you ask yourself any of these questions before you get going?


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## Slimits (Jun 30, 2014)

FishMichv2 said:


> do you know how often they get a 20000 fish return in the Platte? Do you realize the hatchery on the Platte is where all of our Coho come from? Do you know why the Platte was chosen? Do you ask yourself what happens if not enough Coho return to the Platte? Do you think there are 10000 Coho at a time sitting behind the lower weir every year? Do you think it's simple to predict returns? Do you ask yourself any of these questions before you get going?


Do you have the answers to all these questions?!? If you do I sure want to know the answers.


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

FishMichv2 said:


> No thanks, I'll just go catch what I need and there are plenty to fish for. I feel like some of you would whine if they gave them to people who hadn't bought the terribly expensive fishing license. Maybe some of you who are complaining about this should volunteer at the weirs and hatcheries so you can see what all goes into it. Maybe we could save ourselves from paying that enormous fee of a fishing license. Chances are you will realize that the help received from the contractor who buys these fish might be providing a nice symbiotic relationship..


Having to provide "security" for something the DNR gives away should tell you all you need to know


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## Whitetail_hunter (Mar 14, 2012)

I keep on hearing about this service that they provide. One of which is to watch the platte and LM weirs. I have only one question at the moment and that is where is this guy that supposedly watches the LM weir. I have never seen him and i stopped by there almost daily for 2 months this year.


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## danthebuilder (Nov 22, 2011)

Huntingguy23 said:


> But honestly I would not bid on work that i feel is unethical....


It would be a lot less ethical if you were paying the state or doing it for no cost instead of getting paid. Worst case scenario. Maybe the DNR gets a better price out of the other guy.


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## FishMichv2 (Oct 18, 2004)

Huntingguy23 said:


> we BOTH can speculate all we want about what the contractor is profiting... that should be public information... and could be easily settled by the DNR ...these fish were paid for by the public to be enjoyed by the public ..... the only entity benefiting from removing these fresh coho early was the contractor..... that is not debatable


Give it up. You have dug yourself a hole and have been wrong about everything. Go out and enjoy the fishery we have that exists because of the hard work, science, and business that you are complaining about. Don't like how it is going down? Get out there and help then. You have been given all the facts and reasons why these coho were harvested. I'm gonna go now and I'll be out on the Platte for a couple hours struggling to find fish because of the evil greedy dnr.


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

danthebuilder said:


> My numbers were not speculation. They were released by the alaska dept of fish & game. You were wrong & proven wrong. Its okay to admit it. I proved that it would be a TERRIBLE business idea for you to underbid the current company. You're welcome btw.
> 
> Then I suggested a WIN-WIN "ethical" approach to the situation. The problem is that I predicted that always happens. The guys who complain the most never show up, organize things & volunteer their time to make things right. They just like to complain.


Thanks for clearing everything up ... in your eyes ..... How do figures from alaska fish and game have anything to do with what the contractor in michigan profited? And why is it so easy to get alaska fish and game numbers and not Michigan DNR numbers ...


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

FishMichv2 said:


> Give it up. You have dug yourself a hole and have been wrong about everything. Go out and enjoy the fishery we have that exists because of the hard work, science, and business that you are complaining about. Don't like how it is going down? Get out there and help then. You have been given all the facts and reasons why these coho were harvested. I'm gonna go now and I'll be out on the Platte for a couple hours struggling to find fish because of the evil greedy dnr.


I do just fine with the fish .... i just never brag about it . And .. as far as being proven wrong? we shall see .... The DNR hasn't released any facts yet so your definition must be different than mine .


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## FishMichv2 (Oct 18, 2004)

Huntingguy23 said:


> ..... the only entity benefiting from removing these fresh coho early was the contractor..... that is not debatable


This comment here shows how off you are on this particular subject. One thing you have to consider is that way more fish than usual ran upstream early. The Platte really isn't all that cold right now. Warmer water means less oxygen for the fish. More fish also means less oxygen and more stress on the fish. When you pile all these fish up in one spot for a long time in warm water you run a risk of a big fish kill. These fish would have had to sit behind the lower weir for weeks of 80 degree weather before they were ready for egg take. Letting them through doesn't help because they just shoot upstream and would all be sitting in the pens at the hatchery running the risk of a useless death before egg take. These coho don't just spread out through the system when passed through, they shoot straight upstream and sit in a pile where they are stopped unless they are ready to spawn. Maybe I'm mistaken on this subject but I would assume 15000 or so coho sitting behind the lower weir for 2-3 weeks of 80 degree weather is bad.

With that being said, we all benefit from proper management that considers all things. The dnr likely saves time and money by contracting out the harvest and we have a pretty solid fishery at the moment. Could you imagine how bad the dnr would look if they let a bunch of fish die just sitting there? They would receive backlash from all sides. 

Also keep in mind that this contractor you seem to think makes millions has had a couple pretty rough years working with us. The Platte had pretty terrible coho returns the last few years and if I'm not mistaken they didn't get any fish from us for a couple years. This goes for all of our hatcheries and weirs. I'm sure some of our dnr members here could tell us if I'm correct on that. I spend a fair amount of time at both Platte weirs and the Boardman weir and I seem to recall the Boardman even had to use some fish there for egg take a couple times because the Little Man didn't get enough fish. Even if the dnr was "throwing the contractor a bone" by giving up these 5000 fresh cohos I have no problem with it. The contractor stuck with them after a couple of years of nothing. On top of that, I have fished the Platte a ton since those fish were harvested and have had absolutely no trouble finding fish. It had zero negative affects on the fishing as far as I can tell.

My point is, you aren't considering any of the information needed to make important decisions.


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

FishMichv2 said:


> This comment here shows how off you are on this particular subject. One thing you have to consider is that way more fish than usual ran upstream early. The Platte really isn't all that cold right now. Warmer water means less oxygen for the fish. More fish also means less oxygen and more stress on the fish. When you pile all these fish up in one spot for a long time in warm water you run a risk of a big fish kill. These fish would have had to sit behind the lower weir for weeks of 80 degree weather before they were ready for egg take. Letting them through doesn't help because they just shoot upstream and would all be sitting in the pens at the hatchery running the risk of a useless death before egg take. These coho don't just spread out through the system when passed through, they shoot straight upstream and sit in a pile where they are stopped unless they are ready to spawn. Maybe I'm mistaken on this subject but I would assume 15000 or so coho sitting behind the lower weir for 2-3 weeks of 80 degree weather is bad.
> 
> With that being said, we all benefit from proper management that considers all things. The dnr likely saves time and money by contracting out the harvest and we have a pretty solid fishery at the moment. Could you imagine how bad the dnr would look if they let a bunch of fish die just sitting there? They would receive backlash from all sides.
> 
> ...


You are missing the point but that does not surprise me ... you claim to live on the river and i can not confirm or deny that . if it is true you clearly have an agenda ... you would prefer the status quo with all its impediments to other anglers. While others would prefer other options for these fish that would include reasonable accessibility for all .The fact is these planted coho eat up a substantial amount of the baitfish "budget " for lake michigan without a ethicsl plan if there is a large return . i will no longer respond to your factless claims that clearly show you have an agenda in an effort to get this thread locked out again before the DNR is forced to reveal the facts


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

wilsonm said:


> You can be the the most ethical person concerning this issue.





wilsonm said:


> The best post I read was about getting your business plan together and bidding on the salmon contract. All this was talked about on a locked post , but some like to cherry pick facts and ignore others.
> Mike ... it is true alot of these issues were discussed in a thread that is now locked out ... that is a bit misleading since there was no resolution... we were told in that thread that Ed Eish would explain the financial side of the weir harvest which he has not ... i must have missed that part of your post


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

wilsonm said:


> The best post I read was about getting your business plan together and bidding on the salmon contract. It's funny how in this great country of opportunity and fortune, no other companies have provided the silver bullet deal that makes everyone happy. All this was talked about on a locked post , but some like to cherry pick facts and ignore others. If you can save the DNR and anglers "millions" put your bid in!!!!!


Mike ... you are correct when you say most of these issues were discussed in a thread that is now locked ... what you failed to add was there was no resolution.... Ed Eisch was supposed to explain the financial side of the weir harvest ...


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

wilsonm said:


> The best post I read was about getting your business plan together and bidding on the salmon contract. It's funny how in this great country of opportunity and fortune, no other companies have provided the silver bullet deal that makes everyone happy. All this was talked about on a locked post , but some like to cherry pick facts and ignore others. If you can save the DNR and anglers "millions" put your bid in!!!!!


Mike ...as you suggested I should put a Bussiness plan together to harvst these fish .... i detected a little sarcasm so i will respond in kind ..... many others have said i should bid a dollar and become a millionaire... since you have a Bussiness degree maybe i can run it past you for a critique .... bid the contract to harvest all the surplus salmon in michigan for a $1.... take that same $1 and buy the city of Oscoda .... grind the surplus salmon up and dump them in the ausable river instead of a landfill ..... i could use the he boat launch since it has been vacant for awhile.... the 3 residents still living there would not complain .... they know the value of salmon dead or alive...do that for 3 yrs until the nutrients build back up around there and suport baitfish and then start depositing the live coho into the river and allow the anglers who paid to plant them harvest them and spend there money while doing so .... sell the properties at the corrected market value and retire in Hawaii....


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## FishMichv2 (Oct 18, 2004)

Huntingguy23 said:


> You are missing the point but that does not surprise me ... you claim to live on the river and i can not confirm or deny that . if it is true you clearly have an agenda ... you would prefer the status quo with all its impediments to other anglers. While others would prefer other options for these fish that would include reasonable accessibility for all .The fact is these planted coho eat up a substantial amount of the baitfish "budget " for lake michigan without a ethicsl plan if there is a large return . i will no longer respond to your factless claims that clearly show you have an agenda in an effort to get this thread locked out again before the DNR is forced to reveal the facts


You think a thread on an internet forum is gonna force a government agency to do something? Doubtful but I'm all for learning more. I have no agenda and benefit from nothing aside from living in a great fishing area. I'm just some guy who doesn't wear a ton foil hat. Where i live has no real affect on my thoughts on this matter accept i have a fair amount of experience with this river system over the last few years. I can tell you are bitter over some things and that clouds your ability to be objective. Im just some guy with an opinion and am open to being proven wrong. Best of luck to you on your business plan.


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## Fishman95 (Jan 25, 2015)

Trout King said:


> Any king that even gets close to nosing the river is inedible in my opinion. Always people looking for a "fresh" salmon handout.
> 
> Coho seem to be edible for a short period once they hit the river, but the flesh gets soft fast. I wouldn't mind a couple fresh coho for the smoker, but wouldn't eat them out of this batch that has been in the river 2 weeks already. I guess I'm a bit of a meat snob when it comes to salmon and steelhead.


The one I caught Friday was better than any store bought salmon I've ever had. It was up in the spawning grounds.


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

Back in the 80's I was working for a big building contractor in Hart, where Tempotech was based. I did some work for the owner of Tempotech. I told my boss the guy was a crook. He said he was a good guy. When the guy got caught bringing the eggs in from Lake Ontario he did not know what to say. The guy did some time for it if I remember right
I was working at the landfill where all of the remains from the salmon were taken to be buried. When one of the trucks picked up a load from Tempotech they radioed in so they could did a big hole in the land fill to put them in. 
I had filled a hole next to the office I was building on Friday so no one would fall in it over the week end. On Monday when I was digging the hole back out my shovel hit some thing funny. It was a rotten salmon. The dog that was the landfill mascot must have drug it up to the office and buried it. Man did it stink


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