# Couple things



## quest32a (Sep 25, 2001)

Seems like this is turning into an annual post. 

1st Keep the personal stuff off the site, threats and allusions to threats have no place here. 

2nd thing seems that there has been some "baiting" going on in a few threads here. What I mean by that is it seems that members are making posts trying to illicit a negative response out of other members. 

I am trying to be fair to all members here, some are friends who I have fished with many times.... others aquantinces that I have only met once or twice either on the water or at outings. I really don't want to have to hand out strikes or ban anyone, but I will if I have too. Friend, aquantince or any other member I do my best to keep this forum on the straight and arrow. I would ask that other members do the same.

Whether it be biting their lip about a report, or "baiting" a response out of someone. Any problems let me know personally, I have tried to stay out of this stuff as much as possible and let you guys figure it out. It seems that isn't going to work though and I am going to have to be more involved. I have deleted an entire thread tonite and I don't like doing that. But it needed to be done.

Good luck on the water the rest of the fall, and I am sure I will be seeing some of you quite a bit this year as it is looking like it is going to be a good fall for steelies.


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## waterfoul (May 18, 2005)

Well I see it was my thread that got deleted. 

I guess I only have this to say: If fish alot. And I'm going back to 3rd shift next week so I'll probably be fishing even more. I've gotten many, many pm's from members I don't know and some I do asking me about certain spots on the Grand... specificly 6th street. And like I posted in the deleted thread, I find it easier to make a short report in this section than to make multiple pm's to multiple people. But it seems that a couple of individuals just don't like this. Why it seems to be such an issue I (and others) just dont' know. When I fish a smaller trib I never give out specifics... keeping to the rules of the site.

I guess I see nothing wrong with posting reports if there is good information that others can use (is the wading safe was the jist of the deleted thread that got totally twisted by some). If I'm lucky enough to catch fish... I like to post pics, this is due in part to the fact that I fish with several different members here who ask me to post the pics (Steelhead05, Troutking, and a couple others).

So I guess if I'm doing wrong I'd appreciate a PM from you Quest... we can talk about it there.

Mike
'Foul


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## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

John,
I can appreciate the situation that you are in as moderator. You do an excellent job at remaining unbiased. In viewing, and occasionally participating in, the recent threads on this forum I can see why they illicit less than friendly responses. Much like the infamous "Fremont Lake" threads from last year, it appears that some members feel it necessary to "flog a dead horse" by continual posts on the same body of (moving) water. So, they fish a lot in the same spot on an extremely regular basis and obviously take a lot of pictures of fish in less than prime condition. Other members are obviously getting tired of seeing the daily "deja vu" threads, with dead giveaway photos of the exact location of their conquests. And then there was, what I would call, the "coho incident", whereas an obvious king salmon was misidentified as a coho. Sure, we all make mistakes but why argue the obvious facts? In light of recent saturation of Grand River threads, it is my feeling that few members feel any desire to visit, or create new threads, on this particular forum. Albeit the wrong way to go about it, some members are just trying to keep in check other members that are, perhaps, actually embarrassing themselves without even knowing it. To a lot of us on this forum, the idea of targeting dark river salmon (other than an egg take) is of little interest and we are more focused on fresher fish that have a greater propensity to strike our bait, lures, or flies. Thanks again for your good work John.
FF


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## waterfoul (May 18, 2005)

Hey Quest, why is it all the sudden I can't make pm's??


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

Man, I always miss the good threads. 

I also have to agree that John does a good job of moderating what can sometimes be a difficult furum.

Waterfoul.....it's not just you, there are a number of problems going on with the site to include problems with the PM feature.


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## Still Wait'n (Nov 25, 2005)

I'm just wondering. Do you let us know if we get strikes against us?


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## Alpha Buck (Jan 24, 2006)

Flyfisher said:


> John,
> I can appreciate the situation that you are in as moderator. You do an excellent job at remaining unbiased. In viewing, and occasionally participating in, the recent threads on this forum I can see why they illicit less than friendly responses. Much like the infamous "Fremont Lake" threads from last year, it appears that some members feel it necessary to "flog a dead horse" by continual posts on the same body of (moving) water. So, they fish a lot in the same spot on an extremely regular basis and obviously take a lot of pictures of fish in less than prime condition. Other members are obviously getting tired of seeing the daily "deja vu" threads, with dead giveaway photos of the exact location of their conquests. And then there was, what I would call, the "coho incident", whereas an obvious king salmon was misidentified as a coho. Sure, we all make mistakes but why argue the obvious facts? In light of recent saturation of Grand River threads, it is my feeling that few members feel any desire to visit, or create new threads, on this particular forum. Albeit the wrong way to go about it, some members are just trying to keep in check other members that are, perhaps, actually embarrassing themselves without even knowing it. To a lot of us on this forum, the idea of targeting dark river salmon (other than an egg take) is of little interest and we are more focused on fresher fish that have a greater propensity to strike our bait, lures, or flies. Thanks again for your good work John.
> FF


:lol:


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## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

Alpha Buck said:


> :lol:


Dude...clear out your PM box!


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## quest32a (Sep 25, 2001)

Still Wait'n said:


> I'm just wondering. Do you let us know if we get strikes against us?


Yup, I haven't issued any strikes on this forum in a while.


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## quest32a (Sep 25, 2001)

I have posted my feelings on this subject as a mod and I guess I should probably post some personal feelings as well. I will try and make this quick as the tigers are on 

Reports and updates are appreciated, I like to look at pictures as well. W/O pics these forums would become boring rather quickly. That king that Waterfoul caught although a bit dark was still a pig and I would have been happy to land one of that size myself. To this day I don't think I have actually landed a salmon that big. Way to go man! I would have posted a picture of that fish as well regardless of where I caught it and what the background scenery showed. 

But I do question the continuing posting on specific spots.... this does remind me eerily(sp?) of the Freemont thread of last year. It seems that the updates are continually put up to call attention to a spot(6th st) out of spite for other members. And that is where I see a problem, I could be completely off base with that but I do wonder if the continued postings are made with less than good intentions. I don't fish 6th st, so I am not sure of the dynamic of the fishing there. I know it gets crowded during the runs as does every other major river that gets a good run of salmon and steelhead. That won't change regardless of internet postings. 

I know both Alphabuck and Flyfisher are both very experinced fisherman who have spent many hours and days fishing the Grand Rapids area and beyond. And I know that Waterfoul and others have had some great success this fall and I am glad they are sharing it. Like I said this page would be boring without pictures. I guess all I ask is that when you post (and this is aimed at everyone) that you do take into account how other folks that fish the same areas will react. Although I do post reports and pictures where it is blatantly obvious where I fish I do try and consider the effect it may have. If you look in my gallery you will see some very obvious landmarks in the background. 

I would just ask that all parties from here on out consider the effect and response that their posts may recieve. Whether it be posting a report, or giving someone a hard time for posting that report. I don't want this website and this forum in particular turning into another website that many of us frequent. Bitchfests are not fun and in the long run noone is ultimately happy. 

Any comments and criticism are very welcome as that is the reason I started this thread. I tried to ignore this whole thing for a while but that is obviously not going to work. So I am taking more of a head on approach...LOL

Have at it!:xzicon_sm


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

> I guess all I ask is that when you post (and this is aimed at everyone) that you do take into account how other folks that fish the same areas will react.


Well said, my friend--the wisest thing I've read in all of these argu...er...debates.


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## waterfoul (May 18, 2005)

Well in my defense... I've been fishing the same spot by boat for about 3 or 4 weeks now, we'll say maybe 10-12 trips with the anchor hitting the bottom in the same location every time... and I know I have NOT made 10-12 reports about it. Maybe 3 or 4 reports at most. Posted pics of steelhead05's best day of fishing in his 20 years... posted a pic of the biggest fish I've ever landed... posted a pic of Troutking's smallmouth caught on a salmon rig... so maybe 25-30% of my trips have been documented here. I also want to add that on NONE of these trips have we had to fight for that spot, wait for someone to leave that spot, or fish spitting distance from anyone. Every time we've been there it's the same 2 or 3 boats.. one of which is a man and son that must be from Croatia or other middle european country as the man speaks NO english... so I KNOW he's not reading this... then there's my friend Rich, who does not even own a compter, and myself. So I can say with certainty that my 3 or 4 reports on that spot have had NO impact on the fishing pressure there. Heck, even the GR Press pinped that spot out for all to see and the number of boats didn't change one bit.

As for my report earlier in the week (the one that got canned yesterday), that was the first time I've stepped foot IN the water downtown in 3 weeks. And all I said was I had no luck and that the water was safe to fish if you were careful. But the same two individuals just have to... how was it said??? "poke with a stick" every time I mention fishing in this section of MS.com. Perhaps if they just stayed out of any thread I start??? I've asked both of them to do so... with little result. Respect? Maturity? Sportsmanship?? After all that's what it's all about isn't it?? Sportsmanship???

As for the Fremont thread... please let a dead horse lay.

Mike


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## Creek-Chub (Apr 15, 2004)

Waterfoul said:


> Well in my defense... I've been fishing the same spot by boat for about 3 or 4 weeks now, we'll say maybe 10-12 trips with the anchor hitting the bottom in the same location every time... and I know I have NOT made 10-12 reports about it. Maybe 3 or 4 reports at most. Posted pics of steelhead05's best day of fishing in his 20 years... posted a pic of the biggest fish I've ever landed... posted a pic of Troutking's smallmouth caught on a salmon rig... so maybe 25-30% of my trips have been documented here. I also want to add that on NONE of these trips have we had to fight for that spot, wait for someone to leave that spot, or fish spitting distance from anyone. Every time we've been there it's the same 2 or 3 boats.. one of which is a man and son that must be from Croatia or other middle european country as the man speaks NO english... so I KNOW he's not reading this... then there's my friend Rich, who does not even own a compter, and myself. So I can say with certainty that my 3 or 4 reports on that spot have had NO impact on the fishing pressure there. Heck, even the GR Press pinped that spot out for all to see and the number of boats didn't change one bit.
> 
> As for my report earlier in the week (the one that got canned yesterday), that was the first time I've stepped foot IN the water downtown in 3 weeks. And all I said was I had no luck and that the water was safe to fish if you were careful. But the same two individuals just have to... how was it said??? "poke with a stick" every time I mention fishing in this section of MS.com. Perhaps if they just stayed out of any thread I start??? I've asked both of them to do so... with little result. Respect? Maturity? Sportsmanship?? After all that's what it's all about isn't it?? Sportsmanship???
> 
> ...


Mike, did you read any of what John wrote?


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## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

Creek-Chub said:


> Mike, did you read any of what John wrote?


:banghead3 

WF...rather than continuing the defensive posture...take a breather...step away from the keyboard, and disconnect from the internet. 

...And Flyfisher hits a pop fly into the bleachers...S-T-R-I-K-E O-N-E!


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## MPsteelheader (May 2, 2000)

john well said my man...

many have dubbed me the internet river police:lol: 

i guess up there at a major metropolitan area you wouldn't notice the affects of posts...

i didnt realize just how many people were viewing my posts(years ago when I too posted regularly) until they started talking to me on the rivers, lakes, peirs, etc...

people ive never met before know me by name...

then i started noticing pressure in spots that normally would see maybe 1-2 anglers in a week, now having 10-20 anglers fishing based on a picture in one morning...

i stopped posting reports because i have seen the effects...

newer members haven't had that experience(yet)...

i always welcome reports that are informative, never reports that are "poking" or "prodding" for a reaction...

call me a hypocrite but at least now i can see where all those that responded negatively to my posts were coming from...

i apologize for not listening sooner...

just my .02,

mark


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## roger23 (Jan 14, 2001)

Are these forms covered by the first amendment .I am not looking for a fight just a question seems like emotions are running high .


About the First Amendment 



Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
 The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

The First Amendment was written because at America's inception, citizens demanded a guarantee of their basic freedoms. 

Our blueprint for personal freedom and the hallmark of an open society, the First Amendment protects freedom of speech, press, religion, assembly and petition. 

Without the First Amendment, religious minorities could be persecuted, the government might well establish a national religion, protesters could be silenced, the press could not criticize government, and citizens could not mobilize for social change


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

To be as short and concise as possible, the answer is no, the forums are not covered by the first amendment. They are privately owned and we are all guests here. The first amendment allows much behaviour that you wouldn't consider doing in someones living room, and would be shown the door if you did. Same goes for this site.


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## roger23 (Jan 14, 2001)

Thanks thats all I wanted to know


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

No matter what the vehicle, continual exposure of any watershed regardless of size will have an adverse effect on the resource and fishery. 

Sure there's been mention of Tippy being overcrowded for decades and that's true, but the entire Manistee from Suicide down was virtually uncrowded with only a handful of boats (ok maybe 7 or 8) all the way down to High Bridge. I'm talking about the late 70's until about '85. Frequent articles in National magazines and in newspapers brought anglers from around the country for the annual salmon/steelhead fest. In a matter of 10 years one would have to wait in line to fish a hole (by boat). Naturally the guides took advantage of the popularity and they started multiplying like rats at a dump. 

The same went for the Au Sable, but it took a little longer. Sure the bankies would line the popular sites like the dam, Highbanks and Eagle Island, but the rest of the river was very fishable until about 92. I only knew of a few guides working back then. Old John Scrobot (of National Fame...LOL), Rinke, Bidigare and Ron LaBon had steady bookings. Scrobot ended up on National TV and brought the crowds along with weekly tidbits in the Detroit News. The popularity of the sport added the entire Pirate Fleet Charters (out of Port Clinton OH). A few part time guides worked the river along with anyone that owned a boat. Once again... A Zoo

It's all about exposure. Just take a look at the PM. Splitshot took us to Green Cottage several years back. There must have been close to 100 cars parked there. That's insane. The PM is probably one of the most overfished watersheds in the entire state, mostly do to the yearly magazine articles, websites and guides. 

There aren't many anglers that don't target salmon or steelhead at some time or another during the season, unlike years ago when most hung up their rods in September and left them there until April. Money was plentyful and most bought the gear and boats to chase these fish. Many of them read the reports posted on here and other sites. A little common sense in posting locations will go a long way in keeping angler pressure at a manageable level. Just because it's in the ghetto, it still might be someone's hot spot and create zoo-like conditions.


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## Mitch (Jan 10, 2003)

Alpha Buck, your PM's are full.

Mitch


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## Alpha Buck (Jan 24, 2006)

Its empty!


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## bombcast (Sep 16, 2003)

As much as I enjoy actually steelhead fishing, I do it less and less every year and become more selective about how I do it. Why?

Internet-fueled crowds, drift boat races, jet sled races, "my method is better than yours", river pimps, numbers freaks, and other assorted jackasses.

I have deleted from my favorites list Betts and Stueber's websites, BBT's, TSS-- pretty much everything steelie-related EXCEPT USGS waterdata. I am sick as hell of all the hype and associated nonsense. Makes things a lot simpler and much less aggravating. 

Thoughtful discussion I can handle. Habitat, methods, rigging, etc. But "reports" have become the domain of pimps and those craving affirmation.


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

bombcast said:


> As much as I enjoy actually steelhead fishing, I do it less and less every year and become more selective about how I do it. Why?
> 
> Internet-fueled crowds, drift boat races, jet sled races, "my method is better than yours", river pimps, numbers freaks, and other assorted jackasses.
> 
> ...


Come on, the real reason you've been giving up is that you haven't figured out how to catch them with a 12 guage........well, at least not legally.:yikes:  :evil:


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

All over fish!  

btw....Shoeman, don't see much from you around these forums anymore...where ya been?


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## STEINFISHSKI (Jan 30, 2001)

All I really have to say is this. Most if not all of the "spots" and techniques on fishing our rivers and lakes have been shown to me by someone, or found with others I have fished with. Out of respect to them I do not post on these or post pictures to reveal exactly where I am. To pinpoint and whore them out through posts and pictures after someone takes you to a spot just seems wrong, but that is just me and how I roll. To reveal these locations in private is acceptable as long as people are trustworthy and this usually works both ways. These systems are fragile, publicly known or not, and pressure can certainly kill the fishing and experience IMO whether one can see it or not. If someone wants to post and tell all, that's their choice within the rules, but don't expect the same, or expect respect from those who feel differently about it. This does not mean they should be allowed to criticize anyone either.

I agree with John and think this is exactly like the Fremont fiasco from last year. I know several people who felt burned from the constant barrage and daily attention that thread led to, and wished the whole thing would just go away. WF how would you feel if someone posted about your tournament bass holes, and why don't you?

This constant bickering and backbiting has always existed in these forums, and seems to really bring out the worst in all of us. Salmon and steelhead season seems to provoke a "full moon" type response in people that is sickening. Many have come and gone in these forums, opinions formed and changed through time and experience. These younger, newer guys will experience this too.

I have been part in this problem as well and apologize to those I have offended or hurt in the process. Let's move on, forgive and forget.


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## Bowfin1 (Jul 9, 2004)

It is funny how many people are looking for "you are the greatest responses" by posting pictures or bragging about how many they have caught. The river master's have created quite an industry and attitude when it comes to river fishing. No longer are the days of landing 2 or 3 fish enough. For many, if it isn't 10 or more, it has been a bad day. This same mentality has been shown in this forum. No longer is one report from the same spot enough. Instead of one, it is 10. I, like many, have grown sick of the numbers, and the catch a fish and brag about it at all cost mentality. Unfortunately, I have had to accept the fact that this is the industry of river fishing: try to make a name for yourself even if it means ruining spots it took people many years to find. Ironically, all of this hype and publicity is for a type of fishing that is 75% snagging whether it be legal or not. To sum it up, as a whole river fishing is not the glamorous sport many people would like to believe it is. Lately, its ungly head has turned and shown us all this true reality.


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

I was going to delete this post due to its attempt to spread the distasteful butter of discontent on a lot of members of this site, including me as I am one who has posted river reports w/photos. In retrospect I'm going to respond.

*It is funny how many people are looking for "you are the greatest responses" by posting pictures or bragging about how many they have caught. *
Young man, you may have that type of ego, but most of the regular posters in here don't. We.......I'll include myself....are merely trying to share some of our adventures with the membership. Bragging and greatest are not on the agenda.


*The river master's have created quite an industry and attitude when it comes to river fishing. No longer are the days of landing 2 or 3 fish enough. For many, if it isn't 10 or more, it has been a bad day.* 
Okay, point out to me where you've seen this. The URLs please. Certainly it does happen on occasion and I can think of a couple. The membership, however, usually takes care of it with civility and good taste.

*This same mentality has been shown in this forum. No longer is one report from the same spot enough. Instead of one, it is 10. *Again, how often does this happen in here. Yes, there have been a few members giving several reports in a short period of time, but again, it doesn't happen too often.

*......like many, have grown sick of the numbers, and the catch a fish and brag about it at all cost mentality.* 
I certainly wouldn't want you to be ill so then we can expect that you will no longer sicken yourself by visiting the site?

*Unfortunately, I have had to accept the fact that this is the industry of river fishing: try to make a name for yourself even if it means ruining spots it took people many years to find*. 
May I assume that you will spouting off to newspapers, magazines, and TV shows that dare to give river reports. Let's see, you can start with the Detroit Free Press and News, the Grand Rapids Press, Woods n' Waters News, MOOD, etc. all of which give fishing reports in one form or another that reach FAR more readers/eyes than these forums.

*Ironically, all of this hype and publicity is for a type of fishing that is 75% snagging whether it be legal or not.* 
This is where you really go off the deep end young man. You are accusing guys and gals who you have never seen, let alone know, of poaching. That includes me and I do take offense at that. Your words brush a huge and wide stroke that covers a lot of anglers on this site and you have no call to do that.

*To sum it up, as a whole river fishing is not the glamorous sport many people would like to believe it is. Lately, its ungly head has turned and shown us all this true reality.* 
And with this comment you only make it uglier.

The bottom line young man is that no one is forcing you to come into these forums. No gun is being held to your head. If what goes on here so displeases you then I'd urge you to never set your fingers in here again.


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## Spanky (Mar 21, 2001)

Bowfin, you can't be serious! If you actually believe that steelhead fishing is 75% snagging, than you need to hang out with different people, and quit making these"fantasy accusations". You are just trying to stir up trouble in a thread that is constructively trying to address that type of problem.
Thanks Whit for keeping this one open long enough for me to reply. I must admit though, I had to put the specs on to read your reply there Whit!


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

Spanky said:


> I must admit though, I had to put the specs on to read your reply there Whit!


Yep Milt really kept his cool. He didn't raise his voice once.:lol:


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

I was going to delete this post due to its attempt to spread the distasteful butter of discontent on a lot of members of this site, including me as I am one who has posted river reports w/photos. In retrospect I'm going to respond.

*It is funny how many people are looking for "you are the greatest responses" by posting pictures or bragging about how many they have caught. *
Young man, you may have that type of ego, but most of the regular posters in here don't. We.......I'll include myself....are merely trying to share some of our adventures with the membership. Bragging and greatest are not on the agenda.


*The river master's have created quite an industry and attitude when it comes to river fishing. No longer are the days of landing 2 or 3 fish enough. For many, if it isn't 10 or more, it has been a bad day.* 
Okay, point out to me where you've seen this. The URLs please. Certainly it does happen on occasion and I can think of a couple. The membership, however, usually takes care of it with civility and good taste.

*This same mentality has been shown in this forum. No longer is one report from the same spot enough. Instead of one, it is 10. *Again, how often does this happen in here. Yes, there have been a few members giving several reports in a short period of time, but again, it doesn't happen too often.

*......like many, have grown sick of the numbers, and the catch a fish and brag about it at all cost mentality.* 
I certainly wouldn't want you to be ill so then we can expect that you will no longer sicken yourself by visiting the site?

*Unfortunately, I have had to accept the fact that this is the industry of river fishing: try to make a name for yourself even if it means ruining spots it took people many years to find*. 
May I assume that you will spouting off to newspapers, magazines, and TV shows that dare to give river reports. Let's see, you can start with the Detroit Free Press and News, the Grand Rapids Press, Woods n' Waters News, MOOD, etc. all of which give fishing reports in one form or another that reach FAR more readers/eyes than these forums.

*Ironically, all of this hype and publicity is for a type of fishing that is 75% snagging whether it be legal or not.* 
This is where you really go off the deep end young man. You are accusing guys and gals who you have never seen, let alone know, of poaching. That includes me and I do take offense at that. Your words brush a huge and wide stroke that covers a lot of anglers on this site and you have no call to do that.

*To sum it up, as a whole river fishing is not the glamorous sport many people would like to believe it is. Lately, its ungly head has turned and shown us all this true reality.* 
And with this comment you only make it uglier.

The bottom line young man is that no one is forcing you to come into these forums. No gun is being held to your head. If what goes on here so displeases you then I'd urge you to never set your fingers in here again.

__________________


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

There! How's that size??? :lol:


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## Bowfin1 (Jul 9, 2004)

Nothing was aimed at anyone here. Because of the media attention given by many different sites, river fishing and the mentality seems to have changed. It was just an observation. I think most of what I said was taken out of context. If you go to a couple of popular guide websites or business websites,(the so called river master's I was referring too) this is where my comments were to be aimed, not at anyone or moderator on the site. Sorry if I offended anyone, not my intention at all! The 75% was aimed at peak times(spring and fall) where fishing/lining has become popular. If you notice I made no mention of names for a reason as I tried not to put anyone person down. Sorry you jumped to the conclusion I was talking about you or anyone else on this site as this was not my intention.


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## riverman (Jan 9, 2002)

Whit1 said:


> There! How's that size??? :lol:


I said that once to an old girlfriend. :evilsmile


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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Whit1
> There! How's that size???
> 
> ...


  !


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

riverman said:


> I said that once to an old girlfriend. :evilsmile


 
:lol: :lol: :lol: ..........Thanks! I really needed that!!!


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## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

Bowfin1 said:


> I think most of what I said was taken out of context. If you go to a couple of popular guide websites or business websites,(the so called river master's I was referring too) this is where my comments were to be aimed, not at anyone or moderator on the site.


I think what Bowfin1 is trying to say is that his home river has become a circus due, mostly, to people that take from the resource but do little to give back. There is a lot of money being made on that river, where "sports" from the big cities pay good money to "flyfish" to spawning salmon and steelhead and cheer gleefully whether the fish took in the mouth or is jumping like crazy due to a fly stuck in its anal fin. Probably just the wrong post at the wrong time...maybe better suited to the sound-off forum? My apologies if I, too, got off topic. Does anyone fish anymore? And can we bring back daylights saving time so I can get an hour in afterwork? Maybe its time we all just got along Tight lines!


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## silversides (Aug 16, 2002)

bombcast said:


> As much as I enjoy actually steelhead fishing, I do it less and less every year and become more selective about how I do it. Why?
> 
> Internet-fueled crowds, drift boat races, jet sled races, "my method is better than yours", river pimps, numbers freaks, and other assorted jackasses.
> 
> ...


Word. 

I've fished less this year than I have ever before, and at times, don't miss it one bit. Is it because I don't enjoy river fishing anymore? Hardly, but watching the fisheries change in the short time I've been around is a tough pill to swallow. Is it the internet? Is it the rediculous amount of river pimping guides that seem to inhabit every stream in Michigan these days?? Who knows, but every rose has its thorn, and it seems that thorn of steelhead fishing is digging pretty deep into everyone lately. 

Anyways, I've gotten nothing more to add. Only a few more days of school and I'll be on some lake or stream as far away from any people (and probably fish) as I can possibly be. If you stumble across some bum fishing with a raggidy old Shakespeare reel that keeps free spooling on him at the worst times, its probably me. Say Hi, have a beer, and be thankful that we live in a country where you don't have to worry about your kids tripping a roadside bomb when they are playing outside.


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

I LOVE salmon and steelhead fishing. Call me selfish, but the less people that are around me when I'm doing it, the better my day is--and those kinds of spots are still around if you know where and when to go. So yeah, I tend to get a bit defensive when some of those sections get mentioned. It's nothing personal, I did my time doing the combat fishing thing and I've moved on--peace, solitude and high numbers of fish can go hand in hand, but it'd be nice if people didn't take those things for granted and kept a bit tighter lip when it comes to mentioning those places on a public forum--be it the internet, newspapers, etc. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy fishing around friends and guys I know, but the combat thing? Hell no--elbow to elbow at 6th st or Tippy is not my idea of a good time. 

I'll talk all day long about techniques and my love of the fisheries, but when it comes to specific stretches of water, I've learned to "just say no!"  

I enjoy a good dose of fish porn as much as the next guy, so pics don't bother me much--some may know where a person is fishing, but most won't. It's just the detailed mentioning of certain stretches of rivers that gets me going, since alot of those are still "un pimped" so to speak. Selfish guys like me would like to keep a little peace and solitude for as long as it's available. 

Not that my opinion matters, but I've seen one particular guide's name mentioned on here and from my experience, Mr. Betts is one of the nicest guys you'll meet on the river. Any slams on him are undeserved, IMO, based on the meetings I've had with him at the launch or on the water...a very decent guy who's not afraid to share info if he knows your face.


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## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

thousandcasts said:


> Not that my opinion matters, but I've seen one particular guide's name mentioned on here and from my experience, Mr. Betts is one of the nicest guys you'll meet on the river. Any slams on him are undeserved, IMO, based on the meetings I've had with him at the launch or on the water...a very decent guy who's not afraid to share info if he knows your face.


Likewise...always been nice to me. I think you know which one(s) I was referring to


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## bombcast (Sep 16, 2003)

For the record I have absolutely NO problem with Chad or Fred, or Steve and John from BBT. Good guys all of them, and you'd be hard-pressed to find more cooperative and respectful guides anywhere. 

I did not mean to mention any of them in a critical manner, other than broadcasting to the world where they make their living.


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