# Plugged shotgun for crows?



## Mr. 16 gauge (Jan 26, 2000)

Hey Boehr;
I was going through the rule book, and there is nothing specific on this. It says that a gun must be plugged for all *migratory gamebirds* , including woodcock. Are crows considered migratory? (I believe they are). Are they considered game birds?(well...we do have a season on them )
Just wondering if a plugged gun is a requirement to hunt them with a shotgun?, or if I can top off the magazine tube and blast away!
Thanks in advance.


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## answerguy8 (Oct 15, 2001)

Just wanted to get my guess in before the official answer is given. Yes it needs to be plugged.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

No, plugged shotgun or 3 shell limit is not required for hunting crows.

Although migratory they are not migratory waterfowl (or woodcock).


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## answerguy8 (Oct 15, 2001)

Curses, the Answerguy gets the wrong answer.....again!


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Hey I give you credit for trying. One thing for sure was anyone that went by your answer would not get into trouble. I've been wrong before too, seem like the older I get the less I can remember.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

That might not be a bad idea during the slow time. But I don't know if I want to create more activity. My duties for other than my internet life are pretty taxed right now. We'll see.


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## Randy Kidd (Apr 21, 2001)

So Clay did anybody ever answer the question about shooting clays off a boat in the great lakes? Sounds like a pretty good time during the slow bite periods in the early afternoon. Just don't hit a freakin seagull by accident though


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

My guess is littering like that would be illegal. I sure hope so anyways. Why not just dump trash in a lake? Those "clays" are very toxic to animals and, if the water is clear, will be an orange or yellow eye sore for the next 10,000 years.


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## Mr. 16 gauge (Jan 26, 2000)

Winchester makes the nontoxic clay pigeons, and unfortunately they haven't (and probably wont) catch on. I guess the guys that shoot clays regularly in competition don't like them because they turn into white smoke instead of black like the toxic ones do.....don't know why it makes a difference. The other issue I have heard of is cost.....somewhere between 3 and 5 times what a regular box of clays cost 

SFK;
Unfortunately, you cannot go to paper wadding with steel shot; you need to have that heavy plastic wad to protect the barrel from the scoring effects of the steel shot. The only nontoxic loads that I have seen that are loaded with nontoxic shot and felt wads are those made in the U.K. for the estate shoots....and they are loaded with either bismuth or ITM, at around $45/box of 25!
That dent in my wallet would kind of take the fun out of it.........


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

You want a call, it's technically illegal. Possible nobody would ever say anything but maybe someone would too...... so there is you call SFK.

A lot of things are bio-degradeable but that doesn't mean you can just go dumping it anywhere. Can I ride around in my boat and just wade up paper and throw it in the water? Of course not, it's littering but it's still bio-degradeable


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## dfd189 (Jan 15, 2003)

The key word is "water" which means "Federal Regulations"

Shotgun shell casing, wads, and assorted packaging materials can also contain lead, chemicals, and other materials potentially harmful to the environment. For example, certain polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons found in clay targets are said to be known carcinogens. (It is worth noting that shotgun shooters rejected a biodegradable clay target Winchester tried to market because it discharged white powder when hit rather than the black powder they were used to.)

Three federal laws have been found to be especially relevant to outdoor shooting ranges: the Clean Water Act (CWA), the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act (RCRA), and the Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation and Liability Act (CERCLA or "Superfund").

The Clean Water Act makes it unlawful for any person to discharge "pollutants" from any "point source" into waters of the United States without obtaining a permit, called a "National Pollution Discharge Elimination System" (NPDES) permit. 

Two leading federal cases have held that lead shot and target debris (shattered clay pigeons) are "pollutants," and the trap shooting stations at shooting ranges are "point sources." Therefore, any range from which patrons shoot out over "Waters of the United States" must have an NPDES permit. This is a stringent requirement because "Waters of the United States" is broadly defined to include virtually all rivers, streams, lakes, ponds, drainage-ways, wetlands, and similar features, even those on private property, and it appears that, at least to date, no NPDES permit has ever been issued to a shooting range.

It is almost certain that many other shooting ranges across the country are operating without permits required by the CWA. This is particularly true when the shooting range is located on or near wetlands or waters such as rivers or creeks, or where the range allows the natural flow of rain or runoff to carry lead contaminants into such waters or even into groundwater.


The Resource Conservation and Recovery Act (RCRA) 

RCRA established a "cradle to grave" regulatory scheme for the treatment, storage, and disposal of solid and hazardous wastes. The leading federal case in the field is Connecticut Coastal Fishermen's Association v. Remington Arms Co., Inc. The first such suit against a private range, it resulted in the closing of the Lordship Gun Club in Stratford, Connecticut, operated by Remington Arms Company. 

The Lordship trap and skeet range was located on Long Island Sound, directly across the mouth of the Housatonic River from two wildlife refuges. According to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, "After nearly 70 years of use, close to 2,400 tons of lead shot (5 million pounds) and 11 million pounds of clay target fragments were deposited on land around the club and in the adjacent waters of Long Island Sound." A 1987 study documented acute lead poisoning in 15 of 28 black ducks captured in the area. 

Concerned about the effects of the range's operations, the Connecticut Coastal Fisherman's Association filed a lawsuit against the range, citing the CWA and RCRA. The case eventually wound up in the Second Circuit Court of Appeals which made three significant rulings: 

The CWA complaint was moot because the range had suspended operations and was unlikely to resume. In short, past violations will not support a CWA suit so long as it appears that operations have been permanently suspended. 


Under EPA's regulations and interpretations, shooting range operations do not constitute "discarding" a hazardous waste, and therefore do not require a permit. 


However, the deposited lead and potential target debris do constitute hazardous solid wastes that present a substantial threat to the environment. The range was therefore subject to another provision of RCRA requiring remediation and cleanup, even though the range had ceased operations. 
As a result of this ruling, the range closed and Remington agreed to clean up both the lead and clay target waste.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Well, dfd189 went into a lot more explanation that I would have, good job, no excellent job. 

I would have simply said that state land that you are talking about can be picked up but once material sinks to the bottom of a lake, it becomes much more difficult to pick up. Also, when people that continue to shoot in one particular area on that land and it does become a mess, those are the same people you might want to blame when it does get shut down for that area.

Now, you want to talk about the Gourdneck State Game Area here in Kalamazoo County when one could target practice at one time just a few years ago but now it's illegal, period?


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

Personally, I think shooting clays on public land is a dirty habit too. There's a couple places near me where guys have done it. Little chunks of orange and yellow that have been there for 20 years. I think it's an eye sore. Why not go to a public shooting range and shoot trap there? At least all the eye sores stay in one spot. Just my .02, but I hate seeing all those broken clays in the woods.


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