# Speculating on the impact of the chocolate ban



## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Following the announcement of the total ban on chocolate in bear bait there has been some interesting discussion.

One of the major bait dealer's is forecasting the cost of a barrel of quality chocolate free bait will go up to $100, or more. How much would you be willing to pay?

Most likely the cost of a guided hunt over bait will increase. Could be hunters from downstate will realize they are much better off giving up on Michigan in favor of hunting Ontario. No lottery, just buy your license over the counter. Three times the number of bears as Michigan. Guide fees about the same and travel distance is about the same. Why would anyone even consider accumulating
somewhere between 4 to 11 points to hunt here?


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

I'm not in the game ..but chocolate being eliminated would only change my recipe.
Being ignorant but having read accounts over the years ,if many baits were of one major type I would be tempted to use another in case of bears connecting it with a negative.

Economics would factor . But coyotes are not the only flexible critters.

I keep chocolate and onions and some other items away from my dogs.
I have no proof other than the info from others but am reluctant to test potential issues.

Takes trust to believe chocolate is bad for bears too.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Waif, should you be interested in learning how lethal chocolate is just do an online search for theobromine poisoning (that's the technical name for chocolate poisoning). There was a cub bear found dead at a bear bait about 2009, or so in Michigan. Necropsie documented the cub died from ingesting milk chocolate. Two years ago 4 adult bears were found dead at a bait site in New Hampshire. Necropsie documented all four were poisoned by chocolate.


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

Waif, there is really no disputing the toxicity of Chocolate when it comes to bears or dogs.

Rooster, I think any impact will be temporary. I'm sure there will be violators, and perhaps a few convictions. But most of us are sportsman, and we follow the rules. As for the price guides charge? They'll stay within the bounds of what people are willing to pay. No matter what changes we see here in Michigan. It'll always be cheaper to hunt in Ontario and Quebec.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Interesting question..Back when the chocolate issue first surfaced, I was still involved in the bear hunting business. We had no problem avoiding chocolate, and did just that immediately. 

Most of the commercial bait, granola etc. Is food manufacturing waste, and boxes/crates generally were pretty product specific. There were other consumers, such as hog farms.

So I guess the biggest factor will be if the wholesaler/distributer is going to be willing to separate bear friendly food from that used for other animals.....And what additional cost it will add. I have a feeling there may be some price gouging.

Another factor is some of it included imitation chocolate. How will they test that in the field?

Either way, great move by the MDNR. Hopefully hunters will abide by the law. This was long overdue, it's been 7 or 8 years I believe, since the issue surfaced.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

The issue of chocolate (theobromine) poisoning was noted in the 2008 Review of The Michigan Bear Management Plan. In there buried in about page 21 the report made note of multiple raccoons found dead from theobromine poisoning in three different U.P. counties. 

Upon reading this I emailed MDNR's Furbear Specialist at the time expressing my concern over the likelihood of cub bears being poisoned. The response I got stated, "they were not concerned over an animal the size of a bear being vulnerable to chocolate." I considered that to be a less than professional response as my stated concern was for CUB BEARS. Low and behold the very next year a cub bear was found dead at a bait site. Necropsie determined the cub was poisoned by milk chocolate. Shortly after the NRC opted to issue a warning on the use of chocolate rather than to ban it.


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## Callinalldeer (Jun 25, 2009)

I never use choc. for baiting. It isn't needed.


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## cmonkey (Nov 6, 2004)

I speculate my girlfriend's arse will grow proportional to this. 

Never used chocolate on bears, not needed.


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## Lumberman (Sep 27, 2010)

I don't know. I think it's a large over reaction. 

I have access to old donuts and granola. Both of them occasionally have chocolate mixed in. Small chips in the granola and chocolate frosting on some of the donuts. Now I can't use any of it. 

I get dumping a 55 gallon drum of dark chocolate syrup could be a problem but a complete ban is a bit much. Most of the chocolate we see has very little actually chocolate in it. It's mostly super. 

I bet carb loading isn't great for bears. Maybe we should ban all baiting.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

The concern was not just that chocolate (theobromine) can be lethal to bears it is also lethal to small animals and birds. From a legal stand point....we do not have the right to poison them in our quest to bait bears.

Awareness of the danger of chocolate in bear bait hit the national stage when 4 adult bears were from dead on one bait site in New Hampshire year before last.
Necropsie documented it was theobromine poisoning. HSUS is well aware of it.

At the Bear Symposium last December in St. Ignace a representative from HSUS was seen recording the discussion on the chocolate issue and what action was being considered as a plan of action.

Had HSUS taken this issue to court we would not have had a leg to stand on, because poisoning any form of wildlife is an animal cruelty issue.


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## srconnell22 (Aug 27, 2007)

It's very simple to avoid chocolate in bear baiting. I've done it for years. 

I predict a price drop on hog feed containing chocolate and a slight (if any) price increase on chocolate-free granola and bait products. 

In the end, there will not be much of a noticeable difference for the average Joe. It was the right move by the DNR.


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## SMITTY1233 (Dec 8, 2003)

You can make your own donuts out of bread and a good imagination. Been doing it for years. Skip the chocolate topping find some other toppings that bears like equally as much. There are plenty of them. More work yes because going and picking up thrown away donuts was quick and easy. I always made my own when those supplies ran out or low. However I have found some other bait that I prefer to use over bread and donuts now. I won't use nearly as much of that now. 




Lumberman said:


> I don't know. I think it's a large over reaction.
> 
> I have access to old donuts and granola. Both of them occasionally have chocolate mixed in. Small chips in the granola and chocolate frosting on some of the donuts. Now I can't use any of it.
> 
> ...


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## Lumberman (Sep 27, 2010)

Rooster Cogburn said:


> The concern was not just that chocolate (theobromine) can be lethal to bears it is also lethal to small animals and birds. From a legal stand point....we do not have the right to poison them in our quest to bait bears.
> 
> Awareness of the danger of chocolate in bear bait hit the national stage when 4 adult bears were from dead on one bait site in New Hampshire year before last.
> Necropsie documented it was theobromine poisoning. HSUS is well aware of it.
> ...



This make more sense actually. But what a slippery slope this is. You could make a argument that any unnatural food could be bad for wildlife.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

I imagine it would be an uphill climb trying to ban any type of feed that has nutritional value and is not poisonous.


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## Joel/AK (Jan 12, 2013)

I'm sure they will be banning bullets next.

We used chocolate for a couple of decades and never found a dead animal that died mysteriously. Granted, we didn't use alot of it, just enough to sweeten it up.

Gov agencies usually don't know crap on what's going on in the bush. We never did but maybe it's a Michigan thing. I don't know.

I'm not trying to piss people off but use what works, whatever it is. Don't rely on so called professionals.


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

Joel/AK said:


> I'm sure they will be banning bullets next.
> 
> We used chocolate for a couple of decades and never found a dead animal that died mysteriously. Granted, we didn't use alot of it, just enough to sweeten it up.
> 
> ...


I think we are called to be conscientious in our pursuit of our sport. Not doing things that are known to be harmful to our target species and others is part and parcel of that.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

I agree.


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## Joel/AK (Jan 12, 2013)

All I'm saying is why such a major action and how big was this study? Take into account throughout the US and even Canada where baiting is legal, how many cases of premature deaths was because of chocolate?

Can some bears just be allergic to chocolate? Some humans are just predisposed to be sick and others never get sick, I'm sure the same can be in the animal world. Anytime you introduce a foreign substance into a body can be disastrous. I'm actually surprised more garbage bears aren't found dead.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Joel, 

The DNR necropsied multiple raccoons found dead at bear bait sites in 3 U.P. counties several years ago. Cause of death was theobromine poisoning (theobrine poisoning is the same thing as chocolate poisoning. 

If you want to learn more just google "theobromine poisoning." You will find out it is lethal on small animals and birds and even bears if they eat enough. Dark chocolate is the most lethal although a bear cub was found dead at a bait site several years ago. Necropsie determined the cub had ingested milk chocolate.

Two years ago 4 adult bears were found dead at one bait site in New Hampshire and the necropsie verified it was theobromine poisoning. New Hampshite banned chocolate.


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## 19rabbit52 (Jul 15, 2007)

The thing I do not understand is, when I was growing up we had a wiener dog. She ate chocolate till she was 14 years or and got run over. I have had dogs 55 years. Never had one die from chocolate and everyone that I gave chocolate loved it. Just my experience. And the wiener dog ate a lot of chocolate.


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