# property line ?



## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

Having a survey done this month sometime. Pretty sure the neighbors driveway and horse pasture are on our property. Can I take him to smalls claim and sue for the cost of survey? Since he didn't when he put them in.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Does not seem likely.
With squatters rights reform there is less contention over boundries.

A previous innacuracy is not unheard of in surveys.
Mistakes in estimated boundries are too when no previous survey and boudries were clearly marked /and or defended. How do you know "pretty sure" if you don't have a survey?

Not unusual to have neighbors encroaching onto other neighbors parcels found following a survey.

Reads like you don't get along with the neighbor.
In the couple cases I've seen they just leave the short encroachements as is , informally..
But surveys lines show the encroachments.

If you purchased the property without a survey , are you not at fault as much as the neighbor for not knowing the boundries?
And the neighbor may know for all we know.
Was there a prior arrangement with prior owner between them?

Good luck though.
I always pay for a survey to know my boundries.
I'm less concerned about the neighbors knowing thiers , when I know mine. If that makes sense.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

You can sue for just about anything. Even if the neighbor is on your property doesn’t mean you can collect. It may be cheaper for all parties involved if you just sell him what’s in dispute and move the property line.

No doubt the judge will look at how long you allowed it to go on. Look up adverse possession laws.


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

I bought the property about 14 years ago from a family member. Neighbor bought their piece about 7 years ago from another family member. When he began to build he decided to put the drive and a fence up on the property line based off an old farm fence. I tried to tell him he was too close but he didn't want to listen to me.

About 4 and 1/2 years ago oil company came through and did a survey, only the corners. Front stake by the drive way disappeared before I could see it.

Now that we have finally moved here full time, me and my wife decided to go out and map it with google map. Dropped a pin on the back marker that we know is there and dropped a pin where he put a pole in the ground claiming to be the other corner. Came in the house got on the laptop and drew a line between the two pins. Shows a third of his drive way and about 10 to 12 feet of his pasture on my side.

Have looked up the adverse possession laws, would just like to get this cleared up before we either sell or pass along to the kids and don't want them to have to deal with it.

Their "survey" was daddy said the line is here based off an old fence row from the 50's. Her husband has since got in a bad business deal with daddy and know they no longer speak. My wife talked to the daughter the other day. She is positive they are not encroaching. We will see when the surveyor shows up.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

You can have stakes planted. Not just wood ones , but iron. If the more permanent iron do not already exist below ground. And of course , you want to see them to mark them however you want.
A decorative split rail corner with only single rails each side to the ground looks decent.
The neighbor front side (same neighbor that encroaches on the neighbors beyond his) I marked with a t-post. Despite the buried iron marker. Just so he knows I know where it is.

Being familier with a metal detector ,i covered my rear ones near a disputed (with a drunk beyond) trail "between" multiple properties used by nonowners and previous owners.... More so in the past.
As the trail is beyond my border by inches. All is well. Till someone lands on my property and gets hurt.
Drunk conceded , being he didn't know where borders are , and moved away anyways.

Great neighbors on my other parcels. The most used border on one is well marked and we each mow a buffer between them too. As we know where the line is and respect it.


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

The surveyors put in metal markers and stakes. Metal marker and stake are still there in NW corners. Stake is missing in SW corner. Looked for marker with metal detector could not find it. Right now giving him the benefit of the doubt that he did not remove the metal marker in that corner. As I have previously stated he did sink poles where he thought the corners were. The one is the NW corner was about 10 feet from where the surveyors put their marker. He was East and North of the marker/stake.

Surveyor is going to mark every 100 feet for me. Time will tell.


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## MISurveyor (Mar 18, 2017)

If this isn't easily resolved with the survey generally you will see the judge hold the fence line if it is longstanding. Once the survey is done an iron marker will be in place at the corners, state law. If they don't find old ones new ones will be set. Generally 18"x 1/2" rerod and must have a cap bearing the surveyor's license number.
If it goes to litigation and can't be resolved between the 2 parties the judge will set the new line. In the U. S. surveyor's can only offer their professional opinion. We have no ability litigate property lines.
Good luck. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

Brother had a neighbor who told him he was cutting a trail in the woods on their property. He said no, your deer blind is on my property, I just never bothered to mention it because I don't really care. They had a monument in a corner, and the property has been surveyed twice in the last 45 years with the same results. A quick walk from the monument along the line as described on both plats and the neighbor understood what a cool guy my brother is. The blind was damn near 150' on my brothers land...........


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

ESOX said:


> The blind was damn near 150' on my brothers land...........


That is a long way off. When I was growing up the deer camp we were invited to hunt at had a work bee every late summer early fall. We would go out and walk the property lines. 500 acres.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

stickman1978 said:


> The surveyors put in metal markers and stakes. Metal marker and stake are still there in NW corners. Stake is missing in SW corner. Looked for marker with metal detector could not find it. Right now giving him the benefit of the doubt that he did not remove the metal marker in that corner. As I have previously stated he did sink poles where he thought the corners were. The one is the NW corner was about 10 feet from where the surveyors put their marker. He was East and North of the marker/stake.
> 
> Surveyor is going to mark every 100 feet for me. Time will tell.


Locating front iron first , then one rear ,combined with the survey helped me locate the last one with a detector at a former homestead.
I'm not that good at estimating feet , but still managed. Then had neighbor accuse me of moving it. L.O.L..

Should be interesting after your survey.......


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

Waif said:


> Should be interesting after your survey.......


One side of me says I hope they are not over the line. Not really a drama person here. But I have the time and money now. Plus they are adding another business over there, a horse rehab. Meaning not only them but potential customers using the property. We shall see.....


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## Lumberman (Sep 27, 2010)

I hate to say it but you’re going to put all this effort and money into this deal and then likely lose. 

I would double triple check there isn’t an old fence line there before going any farther. 

Please understand I’m playing devils advocate but I’ve been down this road before. 

If I’m your me neighbor and it’s turns out I built on your property all I need is a reasonable expectation (existing fence line) that I built on my property and your out of luck. 

They will record the encroachment on the deed and move on. 

I’ve pieced my property together 5-10 acres at a time and every time I’ve had to clean up encroachment. Generally always lose just make sure it recorded.


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

Lumberman said:


> I hate to say it but you’re going to put all this effort and money into this deal and then likely lose.
> 
> I would double triple check there isn’t an old fence line there before going any farther.
> 
> ...


Why can't I put a fence down the surveyed line and he be out of luck? I am paying for the survey that he should have when he built. He has a 40 acre lot and needs to put his stuff on my side of the line makes no sense.


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## Jiw275 (Jan 1, 2015)

stickman1978 said:


> Why can't I put a fence down the surveyed line and he be out of luck? I am paying for the survey that he should have when he built. He has a 40 acre lot and needs to put his stuff on my side of the line makes no sense.


That is a great idea. Buy the material in advance and have the surveyor flag the line every 9 or 10 feet. Start as soon as the corner is marked.


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

Jiw275 said:


> That is a great idea. Buy the material in advance and have the surveyor flag the line every 9 or 10 feet. Start as soon as the corner is marked.


They will be flagging it every 100 foot, it is a 1320 foot line with his drive way running close to half of that.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

stickman1978 said:


> Why can't I put a fence down the surveyed line and he be out of luck? I am paying for the survey that he should have when he built. He has a 40 acre lot and needs to put his stuff on my side of the line makes no sense.


You can put up a fence down your property line. Let him take you to court if he objects. He may find out it’s cheaper to move his driveway/fence than pay for legal help. You never know maybe the neighbor will agree to the survey once the line is established. 

You want the survey so you will bear it’s cost. Good luck, maybe your neighbor won’t seek legal council due to its cost for his mistake.


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## DigitalGuru (Feb 25, 2019)

Did you buy title insurance when you purchased your property? If so, that could help. When we bought our property and had it surveyed last year we had 4'x4" concrete markers with rebar in the center placed at the corners. Cost an addl. $100 each.


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## jd4223 (Feb 12, 2012)

I have 1-1/2 acres of property that was surveyed in the early 50's using the shore line of a lake as 1 of the boundary lines. At that time property lines were based on the lakes level. Last time my property was surveyed(2 years ago),it showed I own my neighbors driveway and he ended up owning part of his neighbors property and so on and so on for the rest of the property owners. The last property owner now owns 2 lanes of U.S. 12(highway)...lol Don't know what he intends to do about that..maybe put up a Toll...lol I'm sure all the property owners will leave things as originally surveyed.


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

jd4223 said:


> I have 1-1/2 acres of property that was surveyed in the early 50's using the shore line of a lake as 1 of the boundary lines. At that time property lines were based on the lakes level. Last time my property was surveyed(2 years ago),it showed I own my neighbors driveway and he ended up owning part of his neighbors property and so on and so on for the rest of the property owners. The last property owner now owns 2 lanes of U.S. 12(highway)...lol Don't know what he intends to do about that..maybe put up a Toll...lol I'm sure all the property owners will leave things as originally surveyed.


Sounds like a mess.


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## MISurveyor (Mar 18, 2017)

Title insurance only insures that the title to the land is "clean" and that no other parties have an interest in the land. Under the General Exceptions listed in your title work, (which no one reads) it will state that it does not cover defects that would be exposed by a field survey. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Tilden Hunter (Jun 14, 2018)

Negaunee has an odd history of property boarders in the city. Until the 90's most lots were leased from the mining company with an annual fee, and one only owned the house. Eventually the company wanted out of this and sold most of the lots.

In the mid 2000's I had a garage built, and had a survey done before. My neighbors garage built probably sometime in the 70's when both lots were leased is about 8" onto my property. My bad for not having the survey done before I bought the property. Call it tuition for the school of life.


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

Update.

Survey is done. Pasture about 5 feet on my side. Drive way ended up still all on theirs but he was mowing 3 to 4 feet on my side.

He spoke with the wife and said he would do whatever to correct the situation. We will see.


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)




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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

Now that you have the corners marked put two metal stakes 10 feet from each surveyors stake so you can find them with a metal detector. Simple geometry will help you find the corner if the surveyors metal stake. A 1O foot arc from the stakes you put in will intersect where the original stake is or was.
When I bought a small house in town the neighbor thought that one of the corners was in the middle of his driveway. When I had my lot surveyed I ended up owning all of his driveway and 6 inches of his porch. It is no problem as we have been friends for years. The neighbor gave me $100 toward my survey as the surveyor had to find the corners on part of his larger piece of property to do my survey.


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## hunter7 (Apr 16, 2010)

stickman1978 said:


> Update.
> 
> Survey is done. Pasture about 5 feet on my side. Drive way ended up still all on theirs but he was mowing 3 to 4 feet on my side.
> 
> He spoke with the wife and said he would do whatever to correct the situation. We will see.


Fixing the pasture line will be much easier than moving a driveway. Sounds like the guy is decent and is going to work with you. Just me but I would go over and talk to him and offer to help sink some new posts for his new pasture line and help him move it. It would go along way.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

It sounds like it worked out well for both parties involved.


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

Five feet ain't bad.


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## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

Yeah, five feet isn't a big deal, don't want it to happen of course but I've seen worse. My FIL bought property up near AuGres, when he bought back in 1961 or so, the guy he bought it from "Clint dont ever move that fence", and my FIL knew what he meant. So he picked up about 75 feet by 1/4 mile, now that's alot. Of course later, the next door neighbor sold his property and that's when he knew what happened, too late, my FIL already filed the paperwork with the county. Sucks to see it happen, especially when the person doing so knows what he's doing, I was rather disgusted to be honest.


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## ridgewalker (Jun 24, 2008)

Luv2hunteup said:


> You can put up a fence down your property line. Let him take you to court if he objects. He may find out it’s cheaper to move his driveway/fence than pay for legal help. You never know maybe the neighbor will agree to the survey once the line is established.
> 
> You want the survey so you will bear it’s cost. Good luck, maybe your neighbor won’t seek legal council due to its cost for his mistake.


_If a person wants a survey, that person pays for it unless agreed to by the other person. A different surveyor from a different company might have surveyed or will survey your neighbor's property and come up with a different line. It is not supposed to happen but it does in our county all of the time. Even after filed it can be contested. It is surprising how many surveys are done without finding a monument first and how hard it can be to find a monument up here. Some lawyers and companies make a pretty good living over property line disputes._



DigitalGuru said:


> Did you buy title insurance when you purchased your property? If so, that could help. When we bought our property and had it surveyed last year we had 4'x4" concrete markers with rebar in the center placed at the corners. Cost an addl. $100 each.


_IMO it is always a good idea to have property insurance unless your great grandaddy got him from his grandaddy who bought it when it was platted._



MISurveyor said:


> Title insurance only insures that the title to the land is "clean" and that no other parties have an interest in the land. Under the General Exceptions listed in your title work, (which no one reads) it will state that it does not cover defects that would be exposed by a field survey.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE/]
> 
> ...


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

hunter7 said:


> Fixing the pasture line will be much easier than moving a driveway. Sounds like the guy is decent and is going to work with you. Just me but I would go over and talk to him and offer to help sink some new posts for his new pasture line and help him move it. It would go along way.


Over the weekend they got a post hole digger and moved everything back.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

stickman1978 said:


> Update.
> 
> Survey is done. Pasture about 5 feet on my side. Drive way ended up still all on theirs but he was mowing 3 to 4 feet on my side.
> 
> He spoke with the wife and said he would do whatever to correct the situation. We will see.


Good move to get the survey. Sounds like you were both wrong on the property line, but he was closer than you ?

L & O


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

Here is one of the driveway.


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

Liver and Onions said:


> Good move to get the survey. Sounds like you were both wrong on the property line, but he was closer than you ?
> 
> L & O


Doesn't make me happy that I had to pay for his mistake. Guess I will get over it.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Money well spent, move on. Life is short.


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## JAA (Oct 6, 2004)

LOl!! 5 feet ain't even worth pissing Over. Your money not his.


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

Waif said:


> Does not seem likely.
> With squatters rights reform there is less contention over boundries.
> 
> A previous innacuracy is not unheard of in surveys.
> ...


I had my property surveryed, and before I owned it, it was surveyed multiple times along with neighboring properties. Come to find out a USFS survey going back to the early 1900's was off by 5 feet. That shifted all the property lines over 5 feet because they are all based on this. Good thing they require 50ft to the property line for building.


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