# Shiawassee Winch Help



## Matthuntsall (Feb 21, 2013)

Hey everyone. I have a small 14' very shallow V alum boat. I wanted to rig a winch system up for Shiawassee Flats area. Instead of spending a buttload of money on a chainsaw winch. I was thinking of mounting a regular trailer winch to the front of the boat, and hand cranking it over the *****. So anyone heard of this being done before. I have pulled boats over the ***** for years, and I think this would be easy/quicker than taking the motor off and humping the boat up the hill. If this is a hand crank winch, what size cable should I use, and how long would I need that cable to reach the longest pull posts. Any help suggestion would be much appreciated. I think this will work because my boat is SUPER lightweight.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Matthuntsall said:


> Hey everyone. I have a small 14' very shallow V alum boat. I wanted to rig a winch system up for Shiawassee Flats area. Instead of spending a buttload of money on a chainsaw winch. I was thinking of mounting a regular trailer winch to the front of the boat, and hand cranking it over the *****. So anyone heard of this being done before. I have pulled boats over the ***** for years, and I think this would be easy/quicker than taking the motor off and humping the boat up the hill. If this is a hand crank winch, what size cable should I use, and how long would I need that cable to reach the longest pull posts. Any help suggestion would be much appreciated. I think this will work because my boat is SUPER lightweight.


i would love to tell you its a great idea...but i can't. you will go through all htat work of mounting something to the boat....and then when your arm falls off after 20' of winching, you will say "i shoulda listened to the kid".

hehe. i would beg, borrow or steal (kidding) a canoe that you can pull over by yourself...or a 12' flat bottom. easy to unload on dike and carry over by yourself. 100x easier than winching a 14' boat by hand. 

Please...trust me. Don't do it.


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## TINGOOSE (Apr 16, 2010)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> i would love to tell you its a great idea...but i can't. you will go through all htat work of mounting something to the boat....and then when your arm falls off after 20' of winching, you will say "i shoulda listened to the kid".
> 
> hehe. i would beg, borrow or steal (kidding) a canoe that you can pull over by yourself...or a 12' flat bottom. easy to unload on dike and carry over by yourself. 100x easier than winching a 14' boat by hand.
> 
> Please...trust me. Don't do it.


X2 seen a guy last year trying to do this man he was mad his idea didn't work as good as he thought. Seen him at the draw with an electric winch with two batteries. He smiled and he claimed to have it all figured out now lmao!!! Chainsaws are the way to go or a lighter boat!


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## Matthuntsall (Feb 21, 2013)

I understand what you are saying Shiawassee kid. But my boat doesn't even weight 100 lbs. I winch it onto the trailer every time loading it because it is so light Sometimes with over 400 pound of camping gear on it. I usually don't even make the trailer go fully underwater. Also, I have been pulling boats over the ***** for years now (yea I'm that idiot) or walking. So even dead ass arms would be a step up for me. I think this has to be much faster than that. I would have to remove all gear from boat (including motor) and haul the boat up the **** by myself. I do have access to a canoe and a kayak, but I think this is do-able. If you see a guy at the draw that cant hold his draw card up, maybe it didn't work haha. I think it's worth the try. Don't really have a 1000 to throw a winch on a boat/motor/trailer setup that was only 800. Also, I used to walk to like 14 from wahl road, so anything I think is better than walking!


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## Matthuntsall (Feb 21, 2013)

It is longer (14 ft.) But it has short sides and is pretty much a flat bottom. It isn't much wider than a canoe either, so that all adds up to really lightweight.


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

I fyou don't have the cash for a chainsaw winch, they by all means give your idea a shot. Can't fault you for that. I have never been to Shia, so i don't know first hand. I have talked to a few that have been, and they say it is like a lumberjack competition there in the early A.M. Can hear chainsaws everywhere. Pretty noisy operation from the couple videos I have seen at Shia. 

Look at it this way, if your idea does not work out, you still have option of pulling by hand, as you mentioned, you have done this for years. So give it a shot. If you don't like it, start saving up for a winch. No harm, no foul.


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## Matthuntsall (Feb 21, 2013)

Bellyup said:


> I fyou don't have the cash for a chainsaw winch, they by all means give your idea a shot. Can't fault you for that. I have never been to Shia, so i don't know first hand. I have talked to a few that have been, and they say it is like a lumberjack competition there in the early A.M. Can hear chainsaws everywhere. Pretty noisy operation from the couple videos I have seen at Shia.
> 
> Look at it this way, if your idea does not work out, you still have option of pulling by hand, as you mentioned, you have done this for years. So give it a shot. If you don't like it, start saving up for a winch. No harm, no foul.


That's true, and the thing is the ***** are about 6-10 feet tall and about 20-40 feet wide. But you only have to crank it up the first 1/2 let gravity do the work after that. The guys you are talking about (and who everyone is referring too) are the guys that have a heavy gauge 14-16 ft duck boats with 150 lb mud motors, attached blinds and fast grass, and the kitchen sink in them. My boat is more not 1/5 as heavy as those. I can lift the whole back of my boat (while strapped to trailer and with motor on it.) I can lift the whole trailer off the ground while parked about6 inches. The whole trailer boat and motor prolly is under 400 lbs, I pull it with my little BMW and you can't even feel it back there. I have seen those guys who go out and bring everything, that's not me, I only bring the essentials.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

i can only give advice. some need to learn the hard way. it will be easier to pull over by hand.


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## Matthuntsall (Feb 21, 2013)

I think I'm going to try it by hand if I can. I'm just worried I wont be able to, or will have to pull motor and gas can, and everything out of boat every **** im at. When I winch the boat up trailer on a good angle (with a few hundred lbs of gear, its still not that hard due to the mechanical advantage of the winch. And I am talking about pulling it right now the trailer, not floating it across trailer, the boat is totally out of the water.


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## OLLIE719 (Feb 14, 2009)

Trailer is only a few feet hullion rd is a little different then putting a boat on a trailer

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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Matthuntsall said:


> I think I'm going to try it by hand if I can. I'm just worried I wont be able to, or will have to pull motor and gas can, and everything out of boat every **** im at. When I winch the boat up trailer on a good angle (with a few hundred lbs of gear, its still not that hard due to the mechanical advantage of the winch. And I am talking about pulling it right now the trailer, not floating it across trailer, the boat is totally out of the water.


using a 14' boat to hunt shia with no winch is only possible with 2 strong guys but usually 3 guys. goin solo in a 14' is a recipe for a hernia. why would you need such a big boat goin solo.

i hunted shiawassee for many years....well 15 years without a winch. 12' flatbottom. you pull yer motor, can, guns and decoys at every pullover. that just how it was done regardless of what rig you used. if you can't do that then yer rig isnt very good setup for out there.

bottom line if you have a canoe at yer disposal and still insist on using a 14' boat with hand winch, i nor anyone else has any advice that can "help" you.

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## Duckiller (Mar 26, 2010)

Your Lab is big enough. Hook it to the front end and you get ahold of the stern and walk your boat over any dike.


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## Matthuntsall (Feb 21, 2013)

Duckiller said:


> Your Lab is big enough. Hook it to the front end and you get ahold of the stern and walk your boat over any dike.


I don't have a dog, that's my buddies dog in the picture, he was on a kayak so I had to ferry the dog. But I will rig up a harness to my "hunting cat", he is all over 7 lbs and should be able to pull it no problem. LOL Shiawassee kid, I got a 14 footer so I could fit 1 or 2 buddies if needed, but I go out by myself a lot. I paddled out to the woods a few times and that's a decent paddle, that's why I wanted a motor. It sounds like I'm just gonna be stuck carrying up the ***** or paddling a canoe/kayak. Stuck between a rock and a hard place.


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## lefty421 (Dec 7, 2012)

The pulling of ***** isn't a necessity to hunt SRSGA.

Lots of winchless boats go out and just stay off the *****.


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## Matthuntsall (Feb 21, 2013)

lefty421 said:


> The pulling of ***** isn't a necessity to hunt SRSGA.
> 
> Lots of winchless boats go out and just stay off the *****.


Doesn't that limit you to Prior rd only?


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## lefty421 (Dec 7, 2012)

Matthuntsall said:


> Doesn't that limit you to Prior rd only?


No. Zones 15 -22 are also accessible without a winch. Launch from Hulien Rd.


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## Tom_Miller (Apr 23, 2010)

lefty421 said:


> The pulling of ***** isn't a necessity to hunt SRSGA.
> 
> Lots of winchless boats go out and just stay off the *****.


I am one of those who hunts without a winch but it definitely does limit the areas which can be hunted. I have at times walked to zones that are pretty far out but those days are behind me. My boat is used mostly for the river zones and I can still walk into about a dozen other zones.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Matthuntsall said:


> Doesn't that limit you to Prior rd only?


1-5, 6-7-8, 9-14, north and south prior, rookery and south woods are all accessible without a boat. bicycle does wonders for the longer ones (1-5 or 9-14)

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## Mallard870 (Aug 11, 2005)

Dont fall into the thought that you "have" to have a winch to hunt some areas of Shiawassee. The entire area is accessible with a canoe or small boat and small outboard.
You will have to pull over a dike or two, but it is possible. If you remove the gear and motor most all is possible.


Yes there are a lot of chainsaw winches out there, they are for convience not necessity. It was only about 5 yrs ago I was pulling by hand, circumstances dictate now that I can have a winch(because me and a buddy pooled our resources and got one!) I talk to a lot of people every year that are using canoes and small flat bottoms just fine without all the extra's. ( Hunt Prior, Wahl, or use the bridge on Hulien to get into the woods without going over the dike)

IF you think a hand winch will be easier by all means give it a try, but a few feet on a trailer is a lot different than 120' over the hulien dike!


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## charcoal300zxtt (Sep 8, 2011)

If you do decide to give it a shot with the hand crank make sure you have at least 130ft or so of cable, going through all that work and coming up 10ft short would suck ***.


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## Quackaddicted (Mar 13, 2011)

Hand pulled a sq. stern canoe 'till I passed 54 trips around the sun. Went to a Lewis winch when I found myself not hunting 'cause I didn't want to pull a dike that day. If you don't want to go the canoe option then you'll need 150' of cable to pull Hulien Rd or the Marsh, 130' for Wahl rd, nothing for Prior. Still use a small (14' flat bottom) 'cause if the winch blows you still need to get out! Some of these guys with their HUGE rigs are a recipe for disaster! Look at SK or Butch's rigs. Don't need anything bigger. 
Try the hand winch if you must. Next winter start watching Craig's List for a used Lewis. You won't be sorry!


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## Greenbay (Mar 2, 2008)

Matthuntsall said:


> I understand what you are saying Shiawassee kid. But my boat doesn't even weight 100 lbs. I winch it onto the trailer every time loading it because it is so light Sometimes with over 400 pound of camping gear on it. I usually don't even make the trailer go fully underwater. Also, I have been pulling boats over the ***** for years now (yea I'm that idiot) or walking. So even dead ass arms would be a step up for me. I think this has to be much faster than that. I would have to remove all gear from boat (including motor) and haul the boat up the **** by myself. I do have access to a canoe and a kayak, but I think this is do-able. If you see a guy at the draw that cant hold his draw card up, maybe it didn't work haha. I think it's worth the try. Don't really have a 1000 to throw a winch on a boat/motor/trailer setup that was only 800. Also, I used to walk to like 14 from wahl road, so anything I think is better than walking!


You were given good advice by Shi kid and did not care for the advice given....that being said I do not feel bad by asking you to please let me know when you are going to give your idea a try so I can watch and say "told ya so"


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## stackemup (Oct 31, 2011)

You may not find a deal this time of the year, but a deal can be had. I bought an older Lewis winch, saw, and had them rigged together, with a couple of modifications for less than the price of a new winch.


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## DuckDynasty (Oct 5, 2012)

Is it possible to use a kayak and tow a jet sled behind you. I've never hunted there, how far do you have to travel on the water? You say the dikes are around 30 yards long, throw kayak on shoulder and pull jet sled with other hand, would this work?


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## Nuff Daddy (Dec 5, 2012)

Just a question.
Is there a reason that the bridge at Hulian can't be driven across to launch at the other side to avoid pulling that monster ***** dike?


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

DuckDynasty said:


> Is it possible to use a kayak and tow a jet sled behind you. I've never hunted there, how far do you have to travel on the water? You say the dikes are around 30 yards long, throw kayak on shoulder and pull jet sled with other hand, would this work?


probably should get a taste of the flats and rethink it a little bit. its quite big.

fish point, nyq, harsens are literally chip shots compared to most of the flats. 

30's are 2 mile boat ride, 40's are 2.5 mile boat ride. 9-14 about a mile. most of those i just listed are 1-2 and 3 dike pulls. This is why a lot of people don't ever try shiawassee as they are intimidated by the size. its not as bad as it sounds but it definitely way way different than the others listed...doing those rides in the dark can be daunting for a newcomer.

canoe + 3-5hp motor is probably the best starter unit on the flats. if you launch at the bridge on hulien you can VERY easily pull the other 1-2 dikes to the big fields. If it breaks down you can paddle...if the waters shallow you can paddle into unit...you can hide the boat where you hunt in the corn with you very easily.

winches are a luxury item just like mud motors. not necessary at all....actually true overkill on the mudmotors. just makes stuff easier. great for the older guys and solo hunters.


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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

Some of the dikes have a steep rise or nasty drop off so trying to pull a 14ft boat over with two guys may be a struggle, I can tell you it is with my 14.5ft sportspal, and that thing is light as hell. Good luck and be courteous and aware of those waiting behind you to pull over as you struggle, maybe someone will be nice enough to hook your boat on the back of there's and winch you over. Anything out there is possible, I have done some dumb stuff out there but I learned quick. I have also learned to heed those more experienced in the areas' advice.


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## sthiede (Aug 31, 2004)

Nuff Daddy said:


> Just a question.
> Is there a reason that the bridge at Hulian can't be driven across to launch at the other side to avoid pulling that monster ***** dike?



They keep the gate closed to cross the bridge. It is low enough to step over but no vehicles are aloud. Have to unload boat and drag/carry across.


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## Nuff Daddy (Dec 5, 2012)

sthiede said:


> They keep the gate closed to cross the bridge. It is low enough to step over but no vehicles are aloud. Have to unload boat and drag/carry across.


That's what I meant. Why? If you could launch on the other side it would give access to basically the entire place without ever pulling a dike.


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## Matthuntsall (Feb 21, 2013)

charcoal300zxtt said:


> If you do decide to give it a shot with the hand crank make sure you have at least 130ft or so of cable, going through all that work and coming up 10ft short would suck ***.


 
Yea that's one thing I was looking for was how much line I would need. To be honest I never have pulled the Heulen rd ****, we always dragged the boat over the bridge and launched there.


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## nastynate2728 (Mar 30, 2010)

Matthuntsall said:


> It is longer (14 ft.) But it has short sides and is pretty much a flat bottom. It isn't much wider than a canoe either, so that all adds up to really lightweight.


My buddy and I have a 14' flat bottom with a 6 horse go-devil, we pull the dekes out at every pull-over and push it up and across. we use the tie down strap (about 6' long) and have no problems pulling it over. We are in our mid 30's and in decent shape and it is not that much work for us. But a winch is in our near future because it is just soooo easy! We made the mistake one year with a bigger heavier boat trying to use an electric trailer winch many years ago and that was a lesson learned! Chainsaw or push it over is really the only options you have out there...


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## Sampsons_owner (Dec 30, 2005)

DuckDynasty said:


> Is it possible to use a kayak and tow a jet sled behind you. I've never hunted there, how far do you have to travel on the water? You say the dikes are around 30 yards long, throw kayak on shoulder and pull jet sled with other hand, would this work?


One of the slickest rigs I have seen out there was a guy hunting south prior out of a kayak. He pulled up and unloaded it and his decoy bag off close to the water then went and parked. Slipped into his waders and came over with a blind bag and gun. He towed his decoy bag since they float and was gone in seconds. By the time we got back to the launch he was all the way to the back of the zone. Steve


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## BFG (Mar 4, 2005)

I have to think a 'yak would be a good option right up to the point where you had to try to paddle through a tight spot. 

You guys are making the Flats sound like Mount Vesuvius. I've pulled 14'ers over the ***** at Mouillee with my buddy for years, and we never had to unload the boat? 

Are these super-***** or what? The ones at Mouillee are probably 15-20' to the top, then another 20' on top, and then the same down the other side. 

150' of cable for one **** pull....man oh man...why so tall???


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## Duckman Racing (Oct 11, 2004)

BFG said:


> I have to think a 'yak would be a good option right up to the point where you had to try to paddle through a tight spot.
> 
> You guys are making the Flats sound like Mount Vesuvius. I've pulled 14'ers over the ***** at Mouillee with my buddy for years, and we never had to unload the boat?
> 
> ...


There really aren't any tight spots to paddle through, unless you are in the flooded woods. 

My biggest concern with a kayak would be getting in and out of the dam thing in 2 feet of water with waders on, without dumping my gun or myself into the drink.

The Hulien Road **** is pretty big, depending on water level it has to be at least 15' high. That is vertical height, so the actual distance you have to drag your boat is more like 50-60 feet just to get to the top, then you're only half way there...

Not sure why the ***** are so big, probably because of the massive amount of water the area gets in the spring.


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## Nuff Daddy (Dec 5, 2012)

I think these are kids pictures







The dikes have to be big to try and prevent this is the spring. As you can tell, they weren't quite big enough for this springs flooding.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

hulien dike pull length is dictated by the water level on the river side. if water is low like last 10 year, that dike is 2 stories tall....if not more. 

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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

Native watercraft tandem 14.5 is a great stable kayak. Can fit lots of stuff and almost impossible to tip....tried it later that day with a swim suit.....couldn't get it tipped. 

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## Greenbay (Mar 2, 2008)

Nuff Daddy said:


> That's what I meant. Why? If you could launch on the other side it would give access to basically the entire place without ever pulling a dike.


Even doing this you still have to pull 1 small dike to access the triangle marsh, 1 dike to access the 40's and 2 dikes to access the 30's, 1 dike to access the rookery.


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## Nuff Daddy (Dec 5, 2012)

Yes but none of them are as big as the Hulian dike. And, once you got to the dike at the 40s you could walk from there. The 30s this is already possible if you take the river. And the woods would be accessible without pulling a dike. Just seems like a waste to have that bridge right there to make everything alittle easier, and they gate it off.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Nuff Daddy said:


> Yes but none of them are as big as the Hulian dike. And, once you got to the dike at the 40s you could walk from there. The 30s this is already possible if you take the river. And the woods would be accessible without pulling a dike. Just seems like a waste to have that bridge right there to make everything alittle easier, and they gate it off.


there has been talk of making parking lots a lot closer to the fields...like even down toward the triangles. Much like fish pt or nyq. I'm not sure where that conversaton went but i'm guessing it didn't have much backing. I'm not so sure i would back it. Thats what separates us from the rest is you have to do a little work to hunt it...to me that adds to the experience but theres always gonna be the guys that want it easier so who knows.

the bridge gate is up for a reason...it would be useless launch as it would be a non-stop fight to get a truck in there with 40 others lined up to get across it. only way they will ever use that as a launch is if they make a parking lot on other side of bridge to accommodate the amount of vehicles. It would be a clusterbomb to leave that gate open...and we would have to build another gate to keep people from driving to the 40's....and thats not even talking the liability it would open up...ugh.


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