# new shi rig for next season!



## fowlattitude (Nov 19, 2008)

I don't normally hunt shi that much but have come to the conclusion due to my schedule and how close I am I would benefit from being properly equipped to do so. I see a lot of the 14 or 15' war eagle packages. I know where they come from and a bit about them. Also know that it is a newer package deal. The big question is how does everyone like them for the managed area. Too heavy/ too big or what's the concenses. How about for just one or maybe two guys. I'm sure I will get many opinions from canoes to the mentioned setup.....all opinions are just that but welcome. Lets here how they work. Maybe ill get one so people will have less to talk about than the 18' GT in the parking lot. By the way I got to my spot just fine and killed my birds. More importantly lets here your likes /dislikes of the shi setups!


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## Quackaddicted (Mar 13, 2011)

After 39 years experience hunting the Shiawassee I would recommend the following. A 14-38 Lowes or Meyers flat bottom, 10hp outboard or 12-15 hp mud motor, and a Lewis winch with a 290 Stihl or Husky saw motor. This will give you enough carrying capacity and speed to hunt any of the fields, yet allow you to get out when the winch breaks down/fails and leaves you stranded! Not if but when!! I've witnessed so many horror stories with bigger boats tearing their bows out, cables breaking, saw drives blowing up, etc. not to mention the amount of damage these big boats do to crossings and the cover in the fields. Had to actually help a couple guys pull their boat DOWN a dike 'cause they had pulled to the post and STILL couldn't get it off the dike and floating. Way too big for the flats (30+ hp hyper-drive w/hydralic tilt/trim) on 16' War Eagle. Great set-up but NOT what you need to hunt Shia. Butch Boivin (Shi Kids dad) has a LOT of experience building rigs for the flats. Talk to him about winch mounting. He's been hunting Shia longer than me! I have no dog in this fight, just what I'd recommend as an ideal rig for the Flats. :corkysm55


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

I too have been tossing it around. I've determined a rig built for up there will suck for anywhere else I go.


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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

Purchased mine last December from shi kid and I love it....one of the best purchases I have made. I put a 13hp backwater mud motor on it and have gone many places beside shi. Someone who frequents this site often maybe selling his rig....at least he has been throwing around d the idea so keep your eyes open. 

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## Mike L (Sep 8, 2003)

craigrh13 said:


> I too have been tossing it around. I've determined a rig built for up there will suck for anywhere else I go.


I respectfully disagree, a flat back canoe would work at Shi and just about anywhere else you would like to hunt. Could be used at FP as well. Hunt the Bay shore skinny water ? And it's lightweight and can be used by yourself.

IMO a flat back canoe gives you many options....maybe a 6hp outboard ?
I'm sure there's a bracket that can be made for a winch....


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

1, 2 or 3 man boat: war eagle 1542 w/ backwater 23 is by far the best rig available in my opinion. this is what i would consider the deluxe of shiawassee...costs are substantial to go this route. if you buy all new equipment with new boat, complete runners, winch mount, saw motor, winch and backwater i think your looking at around $9300.

pretty much any boat with a mud motor = stranded if winch breaks...yer gonna need someone else with a winch to pull you over. with outboards you can yank them off and pull the boat over empty by hand if you absolutely have to. That ain't happening with a mud motor.

1 or 2 man boat, lowe, starcraft or meyers 14'-(36" to 42") wide style boat is best. can be had around $5000-6000 new and maybe snag a used package for around $3500.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Mike L said:


> I respectfully disagree, a flat back canoe would work at Shi and just about anywhere else you would like to hunt. Could be used at FP as well. Hunt the Bay shore skinny water ? And it's lightweight and can be used by yourself.
> 
> IMO a flat back canoe gives you many options....maybe a 6hp outboard ?
> I'm sure there's a bracket that can be made for a winch....


I said anywhere else I want to go. A small flat bottom will suck for me on my local lakes and what I need from it. I have a flat back canoe with a trolling motor. Need to pick up a lil outboard for it next year. I'm still leaning towards a 17-18' boat for everything else. The bay is 2-2.5 hrs away from me. Not going up there much if any. Shi is 1.5 hrs from me. Hunted that 4x this year and I shot a combined 12 birds myself and went skunk once.


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## stackemup (Oct 31, 2011)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> 1, 2 or 3 man boat: war eagle 1542 w/ backwater 23 is by far the best rig available in my opinion. this is what i would consider the deluxe of shiawassee...costs are substantial to go this route. if you buy all new equipment with new boat, complete runners, winch mount, saw motor, winch and backwater i think your looking at around $9300.
> 
> Yep, it is a nice rig. Been using it since the youth hunt at Shi this year. Just a smidge under $10,000 all done, but we've also carted it to the UP, and run a rather large river on the west side for other hunting/fishing opportunities. It's usually myself and my kids, but we have squeezed a 4th, plus a dog a time or 2. Butch does a great job adding the mods to the boats, and mating the saw/winch combo. Now if it could improve our shooting we would be all set.:lol:


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## choc24/7 (Jan 22, 2008)

craigrh13 said:


> I too have been tossing it around. I've determined a rig built for up there will suck for anywhere else I go.


absolutely false and one of the worst comments i have seen in a while.....the rig will work anywhere except way out in the bigwater...mine does


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

and the 1542 war eagle will work on some pretty big water and on the flats without being too big there. Its the best all around boat crossover IMO.

that being said, i wouldn't have it out n 4' rollers....but it does expand the possibilities while remaining light enough to run the flats.


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## charcoal300zxtt (Sep 8, 2011)

14/36 tracker-24hp beavertail-lewis winch-runners. Its cheap, light, fast, and can be pulled manually with two guys if you break something. 3 guys is tight but did it a few times this season wasn't that scary..lol 

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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

choc24/7 said:


> absolutely false and one of the worst comments i have seen in a while.....the rig will work anywhere except way out in the bigwater...mine does


You are not listening. I could put all that money into a shi rig, but it won't work as a tender or be the best for what I do mainly. It's really one or the other. Not sure why this is hard to comprehend.


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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

Is both an option....I like the smaller rig(the shi rig) for skinny small water and crummy launches. Works great on back sloughs and small rivers. My plan is to get a 1754 war eagle for the bay. I had the 14 out the other day and it was a bit sketchy on big water.

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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

jonesy16 said:


> Is both an option....I like the smaller rig(the shi rig) for skinny small water and crummy launches. Works great on back sloughs and small rivers. My plan is to get a 1754 war eagle for the bay. I had the 14 out the other day and it was a bit sketchy on big water.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


That's what I'm thinking as well. 1754 with an outboard for around here then do some work on my flat back canoe for shi. Need to score me a 3-5 hp outboard to put on it and runners on the bottom for dragging dikes.


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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

craigrh13 said:


> That's what I'm thinking as well. 1754 with an outboard for around here then do some work on my flat back canoe for shi. Need to score me a 3-5 hp outboard to put on it and runners on the bottom for dragging dikes.


Just sold a 3.5hp....it was rather new and wasn't cheap....maybe look at one of the small mud motors.

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## fowlattitude (Nov 19, 2008)

Some great opinions and advice. Don't really need a crossover boat already have 18' gatortrax and do the whole layout gig. Now another tender or bigger tender might be an option. I think you need like five duck boays to cover the basis. But that's getting of subject. I liked the idea of the 1542 eagle for stability and room. Very valid point on the saw/winch break down. And rebuttle from shikid about the mud motors. I was thinking mud motor was the only option for me but maybe not. I really like the 4x4 mentality on the mud motors. Run a hyper on the GT and love it. They do have some drawbacks but great motor for the most part. I'm thinking the 1436 boats really will have to be considered. What size motors are guys running on the 15' eagles


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> and the 1542 war eagle will work on some pretty big water and on the flats without being too big there. Its the best all around boat crossover IMO.
> 
> that being said, i wouldn't have it out n 4' rollers....but it does expand the possibilities while remaining light enough to run the flats.


I had talked to your dad this fall about that very boat. He did not seem to care for them as they are a modified v and the runners don't always work or hold, one of the two. His advice to me was a 1436/40 and true flat bottom, not a modified v. 

Not too long ago there was a brand new shi rig on craigslist. War Eagle 1436, runner, lights, Lewis winch, long tail motor.....Complete set up, used 5 times I think, bought new last year. He was wanting like 7k for it. I almost bought the sucker, but that kind of boat is just too small for me for the MAJORITY of my hunting. Would have been perfect for shi though.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

craigrh13 said:


> I had talked to your dad this fall about that very boat. He did not seem to care for them as they are a modified v and the runners don't always work or hold, one of the two. His advice to me was a 1436/40 and true flat bottom, not a modified v.
> 
> Not too long ago there was a brand new shi rig on craigslist. War Eagle 1436, runner, lights, Lewis winch, long tail motor.....Complete set up, used 5 times I think, bought new last year. He was wanting like 7k for it. I almost bought the sucker, but that kind of boat is just too small for me for the MAJORITY of my hunting. Would have been perfect for shi though.


ask him the same question today. i'll bet you get a different answer. war eagles 1542 is the right size and shape to move a lot of weight with a mud motor. I can't explain it because if you use another hull and thow the same weight into it....you lose 5mph. it just works.

i'm not a fan of mod-v's either. the war eagle is a different kinda mod tho.


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## fowlattitude (Nov 19, 2008)

That's exactly the kind of info that I am looking for. Real world experience with these rigs. Lots of options on the market and the salespeople will tell you why they are good and everyone will defend what they have/ bought but some just work better than others . Shikid...what motors are they running most effectively. I know your a fan of the longtails is there room for argument for a surface drive on this rig


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## flintfisher44 (Jun 19, 2009)

agree with what has been said above. Need to consider how much gear and number of hunters. I have a 1548 war eagle powered by a 27 HP Backwater with shiawassee modifications. I easily can take 3 hunters, dog, 4 dozen duck and 1/2 dozen goose decoys, plus other gear. could probably swap out some of those decoys and other gear and fit a 4th hunter. 
I bought it for a hybrid to hunt shia and small/medium sized water. I don't break any speed records, but am able to get to where I need. As said above, if I have winch problems, I will not be able to fend for myself. Still waiting for Dan and Butch to expand Duck Rite to include emergency dike hauling services. 
This decision is going to reflect your disposition. If you like to keep it simple and you don't want to ferry more than 2 hunters and minimize decoy and gear, go with 1436 flat bottom with largest compatible outboard. if you want to make your life a little more complicated and take more hunters and gear 1542 with 23 backwater is a good way to go. Because you already have a larger boat, I would not recommend any bigger.


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## fowlattitude (Nov 19, 2008)

The 1542 package is the way I'm leaning due to stability and capacity. Just want to make sure its winchable with one guy. I load/run/hunt the 18' now alone. Although not the way I prefer it and not that often. Seems like everyone can go and then no one can go. Just looking for a midweek alternative that opens my options if I have to hunt alone.


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## fowlattitude (Nov 19, 2008)

I'm seeing these backwater motors but am not familiar with them. Who carries them? Been looking online and seen like nice LT. Any speed difference between 27 and 23


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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

fowlattitude said:


> I'm seeing these backwater motors but am not familiar with them. Who carries them?


Freeway sports in Fenton has a few on hand to check out. That is where I purchased mine and I love it. Was considering the 10hp but after talking to many experienced people I went with the 13, it handles very well.


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## fowlattitude (Nov 19, 2008)

What boat do you have the 13 on


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

fowlattitude said:


> The 1542 package is the way I'm leaning due to stability and capacity. Just want to make sure its winchable with one guy. I load/run/hunt the 18' now alone. Although not the way I prefer it and not that often. Seems like everyone can go and then no one can go. Just looking for a midweek alternative that opens my options if I have to hunt alone.


i've hunted solo many times with mine. that being said, any winching isn't just hooking up, firing up and running the saw. you have to be aware of what your grade is going down, how slick it is with your boat on it, how your gonna hold back the weight when she wants to take off....not winching your hook off your cable,..being able to walk your cable on the drum so that it don't load up on one side and bind.....all this stuff comes into play when your solo...all boats are heavy and hard to move by hand so you have to be conscious of all your actions while winching solo.

also gotta plan for low water...if you winch to the post and your boat is still high and dry, you got problems with any boat thats too heavy to move by hand.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

here's my take on backwater. they took all the things that the other mud motors did and made it all better. its one of the better designs out there...just real solid and well thought out. i wouldn't even consider a surface drive for the flats, not even an option in my opinion....it defeats the purpose out there. If the flats was all mud flat that i could sink a prop into without tons of downed logs....then it would become an option. Then throw in dike pulls with no way to swing tail into boat..ugh.

michigan doesn't have any mud IMO that warrants a surface drive. its all semi hard with a bottom...if not sandy. all you do is grind props down. 

the real reason for a mud motor around here is its a weed eater. you can mow thru a flooded cut cornfield and never mis a beat or cut thru the flooded woods anywhere you want to go and never have to clear your prop. surface drives perform well if you want to run high speed wherever you go...but i would just run an outboard to achieve that.


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## fowlattitude (Nov 19, 2008)

I completely get your opinion and experience....but just as an example I put the 18 footer on plain in no time flat on prior w/ surface drive. Why....because of mucky bottom. River bottom sandy, rocky...means grinding props. I agree. Goes back to my statement everything has down sides. Layout hunt bay where travel across less than 12" of water more like 8" with full load on plain that you wouldn't do with outboard. Could you go around with outboard....probably but not shortest quickest route. Another example....friday winds picked up and had to pull layouts due to wind and waves so we cut the flats in less than 12" of water hitting rocks that would have destroyed an outboard. Nothings perfect right. We live with the downfalls of our rigs and exploit there advantages. Thus the reason I am asking opinions of people running the flats and what "works". Thanks for all opinions and advice. Keep em coming.


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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

fowlattitude said:


> What boat do you have the 13 on


It's on a 14x36.....a bit heavy in my opinion but if you play the weight right and read the water it does very well.


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## fowlattitude (Nov 19, 2008)

I'm liking the sounds of the 1542 with the 27 backwater but realize this is going to be on the heavy side. I like overkill but this might be way overkill and might be more than I need. 

I know everyone has preferences and opinions but the speed of surface drive is hard to beat. I must be a speed junky (that would explain the checkmate). I know the leverage is much better on long tail. I suppose for a shi specific rig the lt would be a better choice...


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## stackemup (Oct 31, 2011)

fowlattitude said:


> I'm liking the sounds of the 1542 with the 27 backwater but realize this is going to be on the heavy side. I like overkill but this might be way overkill and might be more than I need.
> 
> I know everyone has preferences and opinions but the speed of surface drive is hard to beat. I must be a speed junky (that would explain the checkmate). I know the leverage is much better on long tail. I suppose for a shi specific rig the lt would be a better choice...


We don't set any speed records for sure. I have the 1542 with the Backwater 23. According to GPS, top end loaded with 600 pounds of people, and our gear, we could still do 16 mph. That's not cruising for sure, but it gets you where you need to go.

One of the reasons I wanted the 23 was for the recoil start. I don't think the 27 has that option.


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## charcoal300zxtt (Sep 8, 2011)

Skip the 15/42 War Eagle and buy a 15/44 Gator Trax, its cheaper and tougher! Freeway in Fenton usually has a few in stock and can order them in a bazillion different combinations much like the Eagle.


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## fowlattitude (Nov 19, 2008)

I agree would definitely be a reason to look at 23. Although I have hunted just about every condition possible on the bay and only had one incident with e-start on the 31 but that was self induced. Somehow light switch got turned on with no lights in place at the time so there was no indication. Luckily with a quality dual role battery I was just able to get it restarted. Other than that one incident never had any issues.


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## flintfisher44 (Jun 19, 2009)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> also gotta plan for low water...if you winch to the post and your boat is still high and dry, you got problems with any boat thats too heavy to move by hand.


Agree. So far, this has been a bigger issue for me. would recommend having as many rales on bottom as possible. I went from 2 to 4 this season and has made a big difference.

Also, I love my cable winding lever set-up that Mel, from saginaw marina, designed.

I winch my boat solo frequently. Need to use caution and common sense. Take it slow from apex down the back side.


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## flintfisher44 (Jun 19, 2009)

stackemup said:


> One of the reasons I wanted the 23 was for the recoil start. I don't think the 27 has that option.


Correct. I have the 27. Electric start only. Packed small battery charger last year and didn't have a problem. Took it out mid season this year, only to have my dog flip a light switch a few hours before I had a 1548 jet sled. Luckily, I was hunting Prior.


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

Sorry of topic, but why did the construction of Shia make it so hard to hunt without a winch rig? I mean a newb or guy like me is really limited to certain zones based on winching. Just always wondered why it was designed that way. Seems for public hunting it could have been built different for water movement and ease of hunting, sorry to change subject.


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## fowlattitude (Nov 19, 2008)

Would definitely look at a smaller GT as I love my 18' lots of options and this is why I asked. Lots of different ways to go about the same thing. Usually the masses are on target but never hurts to think outside the box. Are the gatortrax really cheaper than the war eagles....who would have thought. I know some of the manufacturers lightened up there structures by going with a thinner gauge material standard.


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## charcoal300zxtt (Sep 8, 2011)

fowlattitude said:


> Would definitely look at a smaller GT as I love my 18' lots of options and this is why I asked. Lots of different ways to go about the same thing. Usually the masses are on target but never hurts to think outside the box. Are the gatortrax really cheaper than the war eagles....who would have thought. I know some of the manufacturers lightened up there structures by going with a thinner gauge material standard.


Ive been looking at 15' boats also . The GT is a little cheaper than war eagle but not much. I believe war eagle uses .100 and Gator Trax use .125, also the front end's are different. I really want a 16/44 Go Devil but the closest dealer is Tennessee and shipping to MI is like $1700! War Eagle/Gator Trax your really splitting hairs with these two brands, there both BA!


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

charcoal300zxtt said:


> Ive been looking at 15' boats also . The GT is a little cheaper than war eagle but not much. I believe war eagle uses .100 and Gator Trax use .125, also the front end's are different. I really want a 16/44 Go Devil but the closest dealer is Tennessee and shipping to MI is like $1700! War Eagle/Gator Trax your really splitting hairs with these two brands, there both BA!


prefer the war eagle over the gator for shiawassee. its lighter...or at least pulls lighter/feels better while pulling the dike. Its hard to explain to people who have never pulled dikes with winch or haven't pulled with a good setup rig. Where the winch mounts, how it mounts...where it sits in the universe in relation to the balance point of your boat going over the top of the dike has EVERYTHING to do with my recommendations. 

if i was never pulling a dike, i would be all over a gator or any of the mud motor specific boats.


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

Do the runners that are typical of a Shiawassee Rig, inhibit running open water or other mud areas where Runners are needed ? Might be something to consider if you are intending on a dual purpose rig ? I don't know the answer, hence why ia m asking. 

I also would like to see an answer to the one guys question on the dikes, why is it so tuff ? Why make it so you have to invest over a grand into a chainsaw winch just to hunt there ? Seems like more people might hunt it if they didn't have to have a specific rig, or a winch. Just a thought I guess.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

sswhitelightning said:


> Sorry of topic, but why did the construction of Shia make it so hard to hunt without a winch rig? I mean a newb or guy like me is really limited to certain zones based on winching. Just always wondered why it was designed that way. Seems for public hunting it could have been built different for water movement and ease of hunting, sorry to change subject.


Back in the day, you motored your canoe up to a dike, unloaded everything, pulled the canoe over and then reloaded it. Back then there were posts with what appeared to be boat trailer winches attached, but no one used them. Basically your only limited if your rig is too heavy to deal with by hand.


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