# DNR should restrict leader lengths...



## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

I have used leaders longer than 3 feet fishing spawn off the pier or beach when it made a difference. I often use longer leaders when fishing trout in deep holes. It should not be banned for being unethical because the technique is not unethical but the people who misuse it are.

Bill has an idea of a bait only section. If we push for that, it makes us like them looking for special rules. It does have some merit however if the current flies only stretches were flies only for say 3 years and then remove the no kill rules where they apply and open them to all legal methods for three years. I still wouldnt want to restrict any fly fishermen because I dont feel threatened by them the same way I am not threatened by bait fishermen when I am fly fishing. Besides, that would be the fair way to do it because all the flies only areas are arguably the best waters in the state and the 98% of the fishermen wouldnt get a chance to fish it unless they purchased fly fishing equipment or we pushed for this rule.

I also think it would help the fly fishermen and women because it would kind of get rid of all the easy fish that build up in these waters that are not a challenge and make the river fresh again. After 3 years of fishing it could revert back to the old status for three years. Actually I started writing this tongue in cheek, but this idea actually might really have some merit. If the other 100 miles was designated flies only we could switch every three years so the fly fishermen wouldnt feel like we didnt care about them.

I do think giving one small group of fishermen special privileges should come with a cost. Not money, but the DNR could set stream improvement goals for them and if they werent met at the end of two years, they forfeit the third year. Special work for special rules. Actually that is a good idea and Im sure many of us would help as well. Hell I have been doing it for years. Maybe the second 100 miles could be shifted to less productive waters on the same rivers until the entire river is improved helping all fishermen.

In the process, we would get to know each other better and some day we could agree that there is really no reason to have any special rules. In the end, we are all just fishermen. Sure there will always be a few elitist few just like there will always be some slob bait dunkers. Who knows if we set a good example, perhaps we can reduce those numbers as well.

By the way Wildcat, it isnt guys like TC that are placing a wedge between fishermen, it is special interest groups and those who espouse to those ideas. Like me TC doesnt want any special rules for anyone and anyone who works or lobbies for special privileges are the ones responsible for the contentiousness. You included.


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## WILDCATWICK (Mar 11, 2002)

Yeah, I'm contentious Is that because I agree with his statments about chumming? Or is it that I agree with either eliminating fly waters or giving bait only waters?

I suggested writing editorials because it will do more for his fight, as he seems pationate to make a difference. But in his fight I don't think it beneifts him to "fight fire with fire" by banning leader lenghts with no science behind it but just doing it to piss off the "select few" and in the mean while probably pissing off the majority. Isn't that the point of much of his argument that a select few are pissing off the majority? Why should he do the same thing?




> What I do have a problem with is the wedge that some on here are starting to try to drive between all the groups of fisherman.


This comment goes for baitfisherman & fly guys. We don't need wedges. That's contentious?


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## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

I am not trying to drive a wedge, but I do believe in equality. What I'm trying to say is this, fly fishers, and bait dunkers pay the exact same amount of money for their license. Therefore, the DNR uses the monies equally from both groups. In this day and age, it seems ludicrous that one group has the power, and resources to dictate one method over another. Maybe I'm being naive, but, how can you tell someone they can't fish a certain way? What about the people who fish for enjoyment, and actually catching a fish, but don't have the money to buy the added equipment for fly fishing? How does that equate to equality? Frankly, it doesn't. 

Not to sound ridiculous, but in our U.S. Constitution all men are created equal. Thats the part that bothers me about all this, I frankly don't care, on the surface, about having flies only, but when it becomes something for the elite, then I have a problem with it. If it were reversed, and you had bait only sections, but no flies only sections, I'd feel the same way.

Now, back to the orginal subject. First of all, 3' is probably is little short, but having a 15' leader is ridiculous. Fishing from the pier, or surf, and using a longer leader is a entirely different subject than swinging long leaders through a hole in the river. Perhaps, as someone else said, we need to ban fishing over redds, that would most likely solve the problem. I, for one, don't fish over redds, and I am talking mainly steelhead here, as I want them to propogate, and if they are hassled enough, eventually they won't spawn. As for fishing salmon over a redd, have at it, if you want a fish in that condition, be my guest. If I remember right, the first advocate of long leaders was Dick Swan, do I need to say any more?


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

Wildcatwick,

You may not agree with me on this, and that's OK--no harm no foul. However, am I trying to drive a wedge between fishermen? Not at all, this whole poll and thread is an exercise designed to draw some attention to the fact that some think chumming is unethical, yet long-leaders and what not to line fish are not. 

See, in the past, any type of special interest group could pretty much get their way and we were left with no other option but to roll over and take it. The message needs to be sent that it's not going to be that easy for them anymore--maybe when these groups realize that, maybe then we can actually start working toward the things that might actually benefit everyone who utilizes the resources.


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## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

thousandcasts said:


> See, in the past, any type of special interest group could pretty much get their way and we were left with no other option but to roll over and take it. The message needs to be sent that it's not going to be that easy for them anymore--maybe when these groups realize that, maybe then we can actually start working toward the things that might actually benefit everyone who utilizes the resources.


Steve, I am still lobbying to get the Muskegon River from M-37 to Croton closed to all fishing from March 15 until the last Saturday in April.:evil: 

My special interest is that the steelhead and walleye be allowed to reproduce free of the distraction of jetboats, pencil lead, slinkies, brightly colored running lines, 8' flourocarbon leaders, and a variety of artificial flies:lol: 

Although I have been flyfishing (casting flies with a flyrod & reel) for nearly 30 years, I still don't like to be referred to as a flyfisherman. I fish how I want to fish and catch what I am able to catch. Labels create "wedges" as do selfish individuals attempting to make changes that benefit them personally. No particular style or technique of fishing deserves preferred treatment over another.


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## soggybtmboys (Feb 24, 2007)

Flyfisher said:


> Steve, I am still lobbying to get the Muskegon River from M-37 to Croton closed to all fishing from March 15 until the last Saturday in April.:evil:
> 
> My special interest is that the steelhead and walleye be allowed to reproduce free of the distraction of jetboats, pencil lead, slinkies, brightly colored running lines, 8' flourocarbon leaders, and a variety of artificial flies:lol:
> 
> Although I have been flyfishing (casting flies with a flyrod & reel) for nearly 30 years, I still don't like to be referred to as a flyfisherman. I fish how I want to fish and catch what I am able to catch. Labels create "wedges" as do selfish individuals attempting to make changes that benefit them personally. No particular style or technique of fishing deserves preferred treatment over another.


Is this section of the river have a natural producing population or are there DNR plantings here? If there are plantings then why close that section???? Basically plantings are 'put-n-take fisheries'. Now if there is a natural reproducing population that is the majority, well I could maybe, maybe go with that, probably better to reduce a creel limit for that time would be more appropriate.


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## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

I am not sure why anyone would want to use a leader much longer than 2' let alone 3' except 'MAYBE' on the surf. But I do not pretend to have all the answers by any means.
Anyways, I voted nope.
I think some guys are a little too hung up on the lining thing. I fish bait under a bobber, use spoons, spinners, tots-n-cranks among other stuff. Not a fly guy though. But some times the fish grab a lure or bait just right and the hook point catches them on the outer mouth. I certainly hope everyone can agree this will happen.
So to say fish hooked that way were lined is simply not the case.
Think about the probability of lining. Getting your line and that section of leader positioned just right in the water so a fishes mouth catches the line and it slides up to the "hook" into the outside of their mouth. Thats a pretty good feat if you can do it intentionally if you ask me. Casting visible line over a fresh redd maybe you can get good at it intentionally, but fishing the boils or runs below a dam or anywhere else? I doubt it. Sure it probably happens but I doubt with the frequency believed.
I certainly respect others opinions, it's just my .02 on the whole leader-lining thing.


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## Fish Magnet (Apr 15, 2007)

Alpha Buck said:


> I think they should limit the leader length to 14ft. Anything longer than that gets dangerous to hurl.


:lol: Good one, Mr. Sir you. LOL

Besides, it was really funny at one time the looks I used to get on the P.M. from some of the "guides", wondering why I was using a "BOBBER", Er Um, I'm sorry, a "strike indicator", on the gravel sections when the big fish were present. This method at one time, was sure & hell alot less noticeable to run a 12ft+ leader under a slip bobber, and "float" the line back & forth, & basically "drifting" my undesireable flies into the fishes mouth. I will admit, I practiced this for about a year, then common sense told me these fish didn't want anything to do with what I had to offer. So I learned in a short matter of time, changing to other "proper" alternatives.


Again, I'm not trying to start arguements here again about this whole baitfishing v's flyfishing thing, but nothing in my mind is going to change the whole aspect of this created "redd fishing" in 18" inches of water sport. My belief is the fish come to do one thing, and that is spawn. Once they reach that stage, their stomachs basically atrophy & have no desire to feed. Besides, why would a mature adult Salmon/Steelhead, that's diet consists of mainly Alewife, Small Shad, Smelt, Shrimp, etc. it's entire life & sit in 200+ feet of water, all of a sudden start eating little green bugs(caddis flies) in 18" of water?:lol: I didn't know that these types of big bait eating fish, flip-flopped their entire life's diet overnite. I'm not trying to sound sarcastic here, but common sense should tell some people...

I voted for the small leader, I confess. I think it would make it much harder for the "redd rapists" to force the undesired fly into the big fishy's mouth.


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## driften (Jun 13, 2002)

3' isn't enough to fish an indie rig...


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## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

driften said:


> 3' isn't enough to fish an indie rig...


3' of tippet, length of line from your weight (splitshot) to your last fly. It does not include the leader above your weight. 

soggybtmboys...just a little tongue in cheek humor for the river guides on the Muskegon that make their living lining fish off of gravel. They would happily see "no kill" while constantly disturbing spawning fish but would never agree with a complete closure of the river, even if it was what would be best for the fishery (which, sadly, with summertime thermal pollution is not a reality).

Oldgrandman, lining is the real deal. All you need is a single fly (or bare hook for that matter), 6'-8' leader, and a 1/4 downstream approach to a spawning fish in 12"-18" of water. Its a great way to "mouth" hook a loose fish or two off of gravel in the Fall. I am not condoning it, just saying that its a lot easier than you might imagine, especially for big hook-jawed kings that have a tough time closing their mouths at that point. I detest the practice but like to have a few loose eggs for steelhead in the fall/winter. I agree its very difficult to line fish with float gear.


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## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

Flyfisher said:


> Oldgrandman, lining is the real deal. All you need is a single fly (or bare hook for that matter), 6'-8' leader, and a 1/4 downstream approach to a spawning fish in 12"-18" of water. Its a great way to "mouth" hook a loose fish or two off of gravel in the Fall. I am not condoning it, just saying that its a lot easier than you might imagine, especially for big hook-jawed kings that have a tough time closing their mouths at that point. I detest the practice but like to have a few loose eggs for steelhead in the fall/winter. I agree its very difficult to line fish with float gear.


Yes, agreed.
I am not much into bed fishing, I have a few times in the past but it isn't my bag anymore.


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## shotgunner (Jan 15, 2003)

> We all know that the only reason for "flies only" water is a social thing, and you or I can't fish there unless you have fly equipment._What about the people who fish for enjoyment, and actually catching a fish, but don't have the money to buy the added equipment for fly fishing? How does that equate to equality? Frankly, it doesn't_ by toto, post #19 & 23





> _Besides, that would be the fair way to do it because all the flies only areas are arguably the best waters in the state and the 98% of the fishermen wouldnt get a chance to fish it unless they purchased fly fishing equipment or we pushed for this rule.
> _ by splitshot, #21


I think it admirable when people stick up for equal rights. I've been there my self and likely will be again. What I don't understand is how you can promote the above with clear conscience? All thats required to be within the regulations is a sngl hook/unscented artificial bait without hardware attatched. Perfectly legal to flail & flog away with whatever your favorite rod may be.. I'm surprised more people dont take advantage of it. The std 9' spin rod would be a far more efficient method of drift fishing the special regs water. I've been onboard with a popular guide, my boat mate fishing a pin rod all day. There was a report made of the day with no exclusion of centre pin use on the sacred water. I've seen numerous other reports as well... Its a TERMINAL GEAR / BAIT restriction. Not a good ole' boys exclusive.



> _Oldgrandman, lining is the real deal. All you need is a single fly (or bare hook for that matter), 6'-8' leader, and a 1/4 downstream approach to a spawning fish in 12"-18" of water. Its a great way to "mouth" hook a loose fish or two off of gravel in the Fall._ by Flyfisher, post # 30


Agreed!100%! Thing is, its FAR from just people hanging onto a flyrod doing it. Its a fact of the whole.. an unstopable faction.. a SEPERATE issue that I don't see as connected with the one @ hand.

T-casts, you & others have had a bad taste in your mouth for pro's since i've been online & gained access to the forum boards. I'm not saying it isn't legit but your letting your _personal_ dislike bleed over into this. Every time a slant is tossed out a it almost feels directed @ me as well. That definatly does contribute to "driving a wedge"

For the record I'd wholeheartedly support a leader length restriction [New york implemented 4' a few years ago] _and_ equal bait only waters.. No purist here  Where do i sign?

SG


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

> T-casts, you & others have had a bad taste in your mouth for pro's since i've been online & gained access to the forum boards. I'm not saying it isn't legit but your letting your personal dislike bleed over into this. Every time a slant is tossed out a it almost feels directed @ me as well. That definatly does contribute to "driving a wedge"


I'm man enough to agree to that...and I'm also not afraid to point out that I generalize a bit too much sometimes. There's actually guides out there that I think highly of and I also understand that all fly-fisherman aren't like the ones that I really have a problem with. 

I always say what's on my mind...if that personally offends you, then I apologize. My fight is against this chumming ban and you're right--I need to leave it at that issue specifically. I won't back down from this issue though--I'm not cut that way. 

On a side note, privately I have a sense of self confidence that right or wrong, is either a strength or weakness depending on how one looks at it...so I never consider anyone a "pro," might mean that I'd have to concede that someone is better than me at something. :lol:


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## Spoon3234 (Jun 26, 2002)

I can think of one situation where using a longer leader is legitimate... On my favorite river the water is always crystal clear and slow moving. I use a jig about five feet below a bobber with no weight or swivel in between. The water is about 8-10 feet deep so it's not like I'm gonna line any fish and I think the longer leader increases my hookups.... Just my 2


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## uptracker (Jul 27, 2004)

Spoon3234 said:


> I can think of one situation where using a longer leader is legitimate... On my favorite river the water is always crystal clear and slow moving. I use a jig about five feet below a bobber with no weight or swivel in between. The water is about 8-10 feet deep so it's not like I'm gonna line any fish and I think the longer leader increases my hookups.... Just my 2


Same here! Even with just fishing with a slinkie or pencil weight above a swivel.

If you're in a deep pool or run, it's a whole nother ball game than fishing with a 4' leader on the redds.


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## steelie (Sep 20, 2000)

Good Day,

Why not just ban fishing to activly spawning fish? 

I agree most rivers this concept of leader length may be useful. However, most of the folks I see fishing the Grand are using leaders up to maybe 8' or more! 

Steelie


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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

I like to run longish, 4lb leaders on bright, direct sun days in the CRYSTAL clear water of the Au Sable river. I feel MUCH more confident running a longer leader when it's super bright, than an 18" leader. 

I line kings in the fall off gravel to get loose eggs, it's really not a big deal to me, a bunch of planted kings that are gonna die. I'm not into slitting or stripping a rotten hen for eggs along the bank, or begging people for loose eggs. I'll just zip a couple hens, get my eggs, no big deal. 

I'm starting to get into flyfishing pretty steady now, it's fun. I had fun swinging streamers at bedders this spring, watching bucks peel off and chase a bunny leech was pretty cool. I never did hook-up on a legit fish yet though. But it was fun watching how the fish reacted to different flies and retrieves. It was also fun finding what pattern they'd actually show interest in, and what patterns they wouldn't. It's something new for me, and is fun. There will probably be a time maybe, when it gets old. But I fish to have fun, and if some fish graveling are the only game in town, that's what I'm doing. It seems to me, that we don't have the good numbers of fish setting up behind spawners that they do on the western side of the state. And a person could easily be fishing the dark water BEHIND the polish, but people will automatically assume they're raking bedders. I mind my own business when I'm fishing, and don't pay attention to other people, unless they're snagging or hooking up alot  ! 

As for ignorant guides, there's one on the AS, I have no idea who he is, that I see sometimes during winter. He's motored right through the run I'm fishing many times without slowing a bit. I used to get pissed, but I would hook-up quite a bit shortly after he'd motor through. One time I was fishing the tail of a wide, slow bend hole. He came motoring upriver and I heard him cussing about me being in "his" next hole, one he'd motored by earlier in the day. I also heard him clearly tell his client "yeah, he's in a total wrong part of the hole". I hooked a nice-sized buck right as they were passing me, and he sure got red in the face and buzzed off pretty quick, especially after his customer pointed:evilsmile . So, I think people need to just back off and let people fish how they want to fish. As long as they're not outright snagging, I really don't give a F(yeah, all capitals). All these sub-groups of fisherman fighting and whining with each other is stupid, and ridiculous. I mean, we-STEELHEADERS, are a unique type of angler, we should all be united together in our quest for the best fish that swims.


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## UBDSLO1 (Feb 23, 2004)

ausable_steelhead said:


> All these sub-groups of fisherman fighting and whining with each other is stupid, and ridiculous. I mean, we-STEELHEADERS, are a unique type of angler, we should all be united together in our quest for the best fish that swims.


I agree.


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

> I mean, we-STEELHEADERS, are a unique type of angler, we should all be united together in our quest for the best fish that swims.


That's a great concept, but as long as certain groups keep trying to take away things that the larger groups enjoy, it ain't gonna happen. By the way, I hope you don't plan on bringing any of those Au Sable or Lake Huron eggs over here to the west side--that's a strict NO-NO with this new fisheries order. 

Besides, is the steelhead the best fish that swims? I don't know...from my perspective nothing beats an early king absolutely crushing into a crankbait in front of a log jam. Let the argument begin!  :lol:


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## rcdan-o (Nov 13, 2004)

All these sub-groups of fisherman fighting and whining with each other is stupid, and ridiculous. I mean, we-STEELHEADERS, are a unique type of angler, we should all be united together in our quest for the best fish that swims.


Best thing I have read in this thread...


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

_"I mean, we-STEELHEADERS, are a unique type of angler, we should all be united together in our quest for the best fish that swims."_


What do small mouth have to do with steelhead fishing


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## MERGANZER (Aug 24, 2006)

If they are hooked in the mouth who cares? Its the down right snaggers that people should focus on stopping IMHO. So restrict lb test I see wads of freaking cable along the banks thats more frustrating then a guy who lines a fish or two 

Ganzer


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## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

thousandcasts said:


> By the way, I hope you don't plan on bringing any of those Au Sable or Lake Huron eggs over here to the west side--that's a strict NO-NO with this new fisheries order.


Wow, I just realized I have Lake Huron fish roe. Guess I better pitch it, be more room in the freezer for this falls "might be infected" Michigan eggs thats for sure!



steelie said:


> Good Day,
> However, most of the folks I see fishing the Grand are using leaders up to maybe 8' or more!
> 
> Steelie


Really?! Man thats crazy. Either I ain't paying attention or you must be in the East corner where all the snaggers are, and I ain't  . 
I seriously have not seen this, thats bizzare for sure.


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## steelie (Sep 20, 2000)

Good Day,

Oldgrandman - yep - East Side. First run (corner) usually a shorter leader. From the second run out is where I generally see the longer leaders. Many times they are 3/4 to nealy the full length of the rod from the cannonball. 

Steelie


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## Long Spurs (Mar 29, 2005)

No leaders are subject to change due to conditions.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

The State of New York passed a law prohibiting the use of leaders more than 4 feet long, a couple years ago. I would support such a law in Michigan. I normally don't use leaders which are more than 3 feet, but once in awhile I use 4 foot leaders with light line, in very low clear water conditions. I hate doing it, but it makes a difference sometimes. 4 feet seems like a good max. There isn't any reason to run a longer leader, unless you are attempting to line fish. 

While we are talking about restrictions - how about restricting double fly rigs? If one fly doesn't produce, then people should clip it and tie something else on. I can tie a knot in about 30 seconds; 60 seconds for a really nice strong knot. I think that way too many fish get foul hooked with double fly rigs. Someone posted on here last Spring, inquiring about putting 4 flies on a single line. Ya don't suppose he was looking to max his hookups-per-cast ratio, do you? Probably wasn't thinking of throwing that at spawning fish either, right? :lol:


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## Fish Magnet (Apr 15, 2007)

Fishndude said:


> While we are talking about restrictions - how about restricting double fly rigs?


That sounds like a good idea, but there might be one problem. The so-called fly fishing purist would say stuff like, well how come the guys on the pier can use double perch rigs?, Or how about that ice fisherman guy that uses 2 teardrops or just 2 hooks of whatever bait they use on their line? Etc, Etc, Etc. But I must admit, these type of fisherman are not targeting fish in 18" inches of water either.

Again, I agree on the short leader & one fly limit in the spawning areas. I guess it depends on how many times you chuck your fly at the fish, but, by the end of the fishing season, you will probably have to acquire a good chiropracter, to work that pain out of your upper shoulder from all the "arm swinging.":lol:


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## steelie (Sep 20, 2000)

Good Day,

So I have been thinking about this a little more. I think we may have to separate the terms leader and tippet. Or - define where the "leader" starts. There are times with dry fly hatches that even in Michigan a 12" leader or more may be needed. The same may be true for deeper runs for streamers or nymphs - and not just during the spawning runs. Perhaps instead of leader length, it should be defined as keeping any weight on said leader no more than "x" feet/inches from the hook. I think that would be a more clear definition. The same I think would have to hold true for those using sinking lines. That the "leader" not be any more than "x" from the end of the line as it is imparting a sinking weight. Then there is the matter of where would this be enforced? Most of us in this thread I believe are refering to rivers and streams. Would you want the same be held true for non-moving water?

Steelie


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## sullyxlh (Oct 28, 2004)

TC or anyone else,
Aside from loosing alot of main line on break-offs,what's the reasoning on this issue,I mean what's the dif if I run a 6lb leader of whatever length or run straight 6lb off my reel ??


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## Fish Magnet (Apr 15, 2007)

Steelie,

*Then there is the matter of where would this be enforced? Most of us in this thread I believe are refering to rivers and streams.

*I do not think it would be logical to include this typle of rule, above obstructions where migratory fish cannot reach. This short leader rule should only apply to those "Flies Only" water, when the migratory fish are present within the gravel areas.

Also, some of us sure know, there is a "HUGE DIFFERENCE" between fly fishing for trout, oppose to "THIS CREATED SPORT" of fishing on the Salmon/Steelhead redds. (Wether you use artifical bait, or even live bait.) I personally do not know any people that run extremely long floating line tippets using "DRY FLIES" when the Salmon/Steelhead are present within the main gravel areas.


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

Guys and gals let's stay away from catch-all words which are intended as a rebuke of any group. Terms such as elitist, snob, mob, etc. when used to cast a spell of negativity upon a group do nothing for the discussions we have on these boards. To some they are trigger strikes which set up sides and one thing we'd better learn quickly is that when "your side" and "my side" are created things go asplinter fast.

We are all on the same side.........we are anglers.


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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

I think it would be a good idea to just close some parts of rivers during the spawn. I mean, yeah, I said I zip a couple salmon hens in the fall, and I've certainly lined steelhead before, but I wouldn't mind seeing that. Imagine how many steelhead would pile up at the Highbanks without a single person fishing for them, you could than actually call it the "scenic overlook". They would spawn in total peace. But, seeing how the Au Sable gets too warm during summer for smolt survival, it'd be sensless on a river like that. But it would be good on rivers that have alot of or are primarily natural fish. And lining isn't just by fly guys or guys running really long leaders and double-flies. Lining visible fish with bobbers isn't that hard, and is done alot more than people would think. I've even seen guys lining the s**t out of fish with bags and waxworms. 



> I normally don't use leaders which are more than 3 feet, but once in awhile I use 4 foot leaders with light line, in very low clear water conditions. I hate doing it, but it makes a difference sometimes. 4 feet seems like a good max.


That's about what I do. I like a long, light leader on bright days when theres alot of people around, like midday at Foote on a bright sunny day in April. I think there's certain situations that dictate a longer leader. Most of the time, a 30" leader is plenty and I usually go shorter for October fish, they usually hit really quick.


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## bucketmouthhauler (Sep 24, 2005)

ausable_steelhead said:


> I think it would be a good idea to just close some parts of rivers during the spawn. I mean, yeah, I said I zip a couple salmon hens in the fall, and I've certainly lined steelhead before, but I wouldn't mind seeing that. Imagine how many steelhead would pile up at the Highbanks without a single person fishing for them, you could than actually call it the "scenic overlook". They would spawn in total peace. But, seeing how the Au Sable gets too warm during summer for smolt survival, it'd be sensless on a river like that. Quote.
> 
> 
> The fish don't have any problem w/ survival on the ausable. If I catch native steelhead on the tittabawassee, saginaw, and other rivers like that. (and I have) Plenty of natural reproduction in ausable IMO.


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## chibear54 (Feb 9, 2007)

4 foot leader lenght would be legit, thats about as long as i go. i'd be happy to see the restrictions on that in michigan. hell, i'd like to see some michigan waters soon, south carolina is getting boring just catching small sharks!


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## steelslam (Apr 8, 2001)

lets see now, we dont have very many rules/regs on fishing in michigan now. lets make it more confussing than it is already. i fish short leaders an also fish them long. if the fish is hooked in the mouth i keep it sometimes for dinner. an how about when i run a 6-8' tippet off my fly rod. an some times run a big dri fly an short tippet off it with a small nymph. i say dont make the rules/regs any worse to understand than they are at times now.


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## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

steelslam said:


> lets see now, we dont have very many rules/regs on fishing in michigan now. lets make it more confussing than it is already. i fish short leaders an also fish them long. if the fish is hooked in the mouth i keep it sometimes for dinner. an how about when i run a 6-8' tippet off my fly rod. an some times run a big dri fly an short tippet off it with a small nymph. i say dont make the rules/regs any worse to understand than they are at times now.


This is a hypothetical scenario anyway but could read like this:

*From September 1 to May 1 it is illegal to have in excess of 4' of line (ie leader or tippet) between any weight and the farthest hook while fishing on a designated trout stream.*

I don't think we are talking rocket science. As I stated in an earlier post, it would not apply to fishing dry flies BUT only when weight is employed in the rig.


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## axisgear (Jan 24, 2007)

Flyfisher said:


> This is a hypothetical scenario anyway but could read like this:
> 
> *From September 1 to May 1 it is illegal to have in excess of 4' of line (ie leader or tippet) between any weight and the farthest hook while fishing on a designated trout stream.*
> 
> I don't think we are talking rocket science. As I stated in an earlier post, it would not apply to fishing dry flies BUT only when weight is employed in the rig.


I can live with that!


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## gamebird_guy (Feb 8, 2007)

I for one am against all restrictions the state puts on *US, *in all things we do in the outdoors. If it stops or prevents anyone from enjoying our sports it is bad for our sports. The less people means the less dollars available and the more *NO *votes when silly things like dove hunting go to the voters. We all stand to lose many things like baiting, hunting with dogs, and trapping. Just let any of these go to a vote its not that far fetched these are all illegal in Colorado. Now off that rant and the the lining of fish if anyone wants to see it first hand got to tippy and stand at the coffer on the brethren side I would say about 90% of those fish are lined, I can still remember one idiot bragging about his (fly) a bare hook with a few strands of copper wrapped around it. I used to be part of that crowd but have evolved out of it and enjoy actually getting a fish to bite. If lining fish gets them hooked on the sport and they evolve into better fisherman I'm all for it. But personally I don't steelhead much anymore for the main reason I moved a litle farther away from tippy and I can't stand the class of people that fish down there anymore, meaning right below the coffer but its even getting bad down river. And I don't mean to call names or point fingers but the courtesy has gone down hill, i.e. casting over top of you when you're fighting a fish, stepping in your spot when you're retying, or parking a boat right in the hole you're fishing. Anyways I voted nope.


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## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

gamebird_guy said:


> If lining fish gets them hooked on the sport and they evolve into better fisherman I'm all for it.


I don't think lining makes anyone a "better" fisherman. The "liner" make think that they are a "better" fisherman because they are hooking fish but its truly just another form of snagging.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Let's teach our kids to "cheat" at baseball and other sports also. Cheating is way underestimated now days, we really should push for more of it.


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