# Building a cabin without a permit



## saw

Ive always wanted to put up a little cabin at my place in Chippewa county and was wondering if anyone had any input on the permit issue.Im back in quite a way and no neighbors.I don't see how anyone could find it other than trespassing or Google earth.Nothing big,just 16x24.No electric ect,just a weekend hunt camp.Im convinced permits are just a money grab by the local ordinance Nazi,s.Im sure ill be chastised by a few for even thinking about breaking the law but am interested in realistic risk apprailsals.


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## Luv2hunteup

Not every twp in Chippewa county is zoned. Check with your twp to find out.


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## GuppyII

The permit's aren't that expensive compared to the fine. You will also get a fire number too in case it's ever needed. Not sure about Chippewa but in Baraga county we had to apply for a privy permit. The local builder was pissed we didn't use him to erect our camp and ratted us out. We are almost a mile back in and on a gated road. They will find you.


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## alex-v

saw said:


> but am interested in realistic risk apprailsals.


Not sure what that means.

As mentioned check with the township and county. There might not be any restrictions on a weekend only structure. When you think about it a 16 by 24 is pretty decent sized. You might have a lot fewer code restrictions if it was smaller. Thoreau's little cabin at Walden Pond was 10 by 16.

The photo is a recreation and that cabin could be built for under a grand in today's dollars using scavenged materials.









Photo from the link at:
_*http://www.simplesolarhomesteading.com/thoreaucabin.htm*_


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## ajs8000

I've been down this road before and can tell you what to expect based on my experience.

Bottom line is that i did get "caught" and had to remedy the situation. Which really meant that i paid twice the price of the original permit as a fine, which came out to a total of $150. I also had to request the permit as an "uninhabitable" storage shed.

In hindsight, i'd probably have got the permit ahead of time and said very little about it's intended purpose but either way, i'm violating whenever i use it for my weekend getaways. Technically, they could fine me for sleeping on my property but after going round and round with the local zoning person, we seem to have come to an understanding. She knows i use the shed as a cabin when i'm visiting but she doesn't check it anymore.


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## brushbuster

You would be surprised at what the tax assessors can see from aerials. Every time I go to the county equalization Dept. to view properties they bring the parcel right up and the smallest of out buildings are viewable.


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## saw

I gave the county a unanimous call just to gather info.Definitely hoops to jump through.A travel trailer is looking better and better,at least for now.


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## alex-v

saw said:


> I gave the county a unanimous call just to gather info.Definitely hoops to jump through.A travel trailer is looking better and better,at least for now.


I was reading the reply from "ajs8000" and thinking that a trailer might be a good compromise. Then maybe a small outbuilding, about 4x4 to keep rodent proof containers to hold the excess seasonal items. Extra blankets, dishes, pots & pan, things you want handy but take up room in the trailer.
>>>


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## multibeard

As I have been out of building for a number of years I am not up on codes. The last I knew a 200 sf storage shed did not require a building permit. Zoning permit yes so they get it on the TAX ROLL$.
My storage shed is 12x16 so just under 200 sf. I built my own gambrel roof trusses. I built them so that they were tall with a steep lower pitch. By setting the 2x6 floor joists just under the top plates and the trusses built the way I did there is standing room in the top floor. I did put a header on the inside of the studs to further support the floor. This would have been inset in the studs if I had been thinking so it was not into the bottom room.

One thing to think of if you use vinyl siding. Make sure that the corners are blocked off so that mice and not climb inside of them to get access to the inside of the building. I learned this the hard way and it took a while to figure out the problem


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## J D

saw said:


> Ive always wanted to put up a little cabin at my place in Chippewa county and was wondering if anyone had any input on the permit issue.Im back in quite a way and no neighbors.I don't see how anyone could find it other than trespassing or Google earth.Nothing big,just 16x24.No electric ect,just a weekend hunt camp.Im convinced permits are just a money grab by the local ordinance Nazi,s.Im sure ill be chastised by a few for even thinking about breaking the law but am interested in realistic risk apprailsals.


Sounds like a big deer blind to me
I'd go for it 
Don't want you to be the only one chastised


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## d_rek

Probably easier just to pull the permit than deal with the headache of getting caught and having paying a fine when the assessor and/or local building inspector inevitably discovers your structure. Seems like the harder way to go about it to me at least.


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## tito

d_rek said:


> Probably easier just to pull the permit than deal with the headache of getting caught and having paying a fine when the assessor and/or local building inspector inevitably discovers your structure. Seems like the harder way to go about it to me at least.


 X 2 The tax guys used to come around quite a lot when I was building. Also the police dept is not like Detroit. They do combs on ATV's in areas they will leave you a little note if they come around just to say they were there


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## Hauptmann6

You will get caught, and depending on how they are feeling you may pay alot more than a fine. Like tearing out walls so they can check construction.

And if you sell it..


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## Steve

They will find you. There are lots of vigilantes out there.


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## wolfe

I have had a 28ft office trailer on my property for 8 yrs now works great. We also purchased a old travel trailer that we used just for sleeping. The office trailer was converted into a kitchen and living room that's where we spend are nights watching TV and eating.


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## Rainman68

Talk to the building inspector before you break ground. As asj8000 said you will be hit for a fine and on top of that if it doesn't meet code you could be forced to tear it down. They will get their tax money even if it's a shed in the long run.

Most areas only allow you up to 200 sq ft without permit. After that they may require 800 sq ft, footings, full electrical, septic and well even in areas off grid. 

The zoning in my area allowed me up to 400 sq ft without all the extras but I still had footing and final inspection. If I had built 401 sq ft, I would have had to build a complete home meeting the 800 sq requirements with all of the inspections....Your section may vary from the next so do your homework first.


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## saw

A friend told me in his area there are some old retired guys that have nothing else to do but drive around an report things,lol.As if the local gestapo isn't enough!


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## Steve

Yeap the local gestapo is exactly what happens.


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## jatc

You guys do realize that there are "for contract" companies that specialize in looking at aerial views to find violations of the building code right? IE building without permits in those "can't see it from the road" spots. A few townships are starting to use these contractors and the list is growing every day.

The State of Michigan is also starting to use this technology to look at properties that are "misclassified" on the tax roles too. Namely, hunting property that is listed as "agricultural" and taking the 18 mill school tax reduction but has not been farmed at all in the last 10 years and is actually no longer even tillable due to habitat manipulation. Getting caught can get really expensive in a hurry for the landowner!

Eventually you will get caught if you try to bypass the system.


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## Robert Holmes

I have found some real nice trapping/hunting shacks on federal property in the UP that have been there for awhile that have not been spotted in photographs yet.


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## Trophy Specialist

The U.P. is different than the L.P. concerning building "camps". Camps are a tradition in the U.P. and I would guess than the vast majority were built there with no permits. I only know of one person that bothered to get a permit for a camp in the U.P. and by camp, I'm talking about a small cabin with no power or water. The inspector actually got a laugh out of it as he had never actually inspected a camp before.


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## Luv2hunteup

I own 2 camps in 2 different counties in the UP. I pulled permits for both since I had access to the power grid. I also pulled a permit for my pole barn. No issues at all doing it that way. 

Neither one has indoor plumbing that's why they are called a camp and not a cottage.


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## Trophy Specialist

Luv2hunteup said:


> I own 2 camps in 2 different counties in the UP. I pulled permits for both since I had access to the power grid. I also pulled a permit for my pole barn. No issues at all doing it that way.
> 
> Neither one has indoor plumbing that's why they are called a camp and not a cottage.


If you have electricity in your cabin, then it is not a true camp. Sorry, but you own cottages.


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## Luv2hunteup

Trophy Specialist said:


> If you have electricity in your cabin, then it is not a true camp. Sorry, but you own cottages.


Not true, if you have a flashlight you have electricity in your camp. Lack of indoor plumbing is the determine factor. Gas lights are still piped in for emergencies.


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## brushbuster

Luv2hunteup said:


> I own 2 camps in 2 different counties in the UP. I pulled permits for both since I had access to the power grid. I also pulled a permit for my pole barn. No issues at all doing it that way.
> 
> Neither one has indoor plumbing that's why they are called a camp and not a cottage.


If you put a garden in you would have a homestead


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## Trophy Specialist

Luv2hunteup said:


> Not true, if you have a flashlight you have electricity in your camp. Lack of indoor plumbing is the determine factor. Gas lights are still piped in for emergencies.


Actually, the technical definition for what you have are cabins. The dictionary says cottages are small, seasonal, lakefront houses. A camp is a remote, temporary dwelling. A cabin is a small shelter or house situated in a wild or remote area. At first glance, my cabin looks like a camp, but it will probably out last me, so it's a cabin too.


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## Trophy Specialist

brushbuster said:


> If you put a garden in you would have a homestead


Do food plots count?


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## bucko12pt

MossyHorns said:


> Most campgrounds have cabins, which are built like a storage shed. I personally think that some of these storage shed type cabins are very nice looking and look better than the travel trailers that I see scattered throughout Lake County.


That's what we did at our camp. My cabin is 16x24 and no permits, or inspections were required by the county and ours are a lot nicer than storage sheds.

There was a nice little log cabin, built by shop class, 14x16' I think, auctioned at Kingsley HS Big Buck Night last Saturday that sold for $1800. Hell of a deal.


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## Rainman68

A flashlight means electricity? Please explain your reasoning......

Building inspectors will work with you. I had all the ceiling joists on my plan tripled up every 4' for no loft just a beam look. My intention after final inspection was to separate some, build a loft then build stairs. Well I pushed my luck an decide to leave the loft area on 16"oc. The building inspector caught that and said that will make a nice sleeping area. I told him no I thought would make great storage.....He knew and passed my final no problem. He was actually impressed I got the permit and followed through the process getting a final inspection.


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## Steve

Rainman68 said:


> A flashlight means electricity? Please explain your reasoning......
> 
> Building inspectors will work with you. I had all the ceiling joists on my plan tripled up every 4' for no loft just a beam look. My intention after final inspection was to separate some, build a loft then build stairs. Well I pushed my luck an decide to leave the loft area on 16"oc. The building inspector caught that and said that will make a nice sleeping area. I told him no I thought would make great storage.....He knew and passed my final no problem. He was actually impressed I got the permit and followed through the process getting a final inspection.


I did something similar. Said the area was going to be used to display mounted animals.


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## BigW

feedinggrounds said:


> Can law enforcement even peek in windows? What the hell? Some inspectors let a title go right to the head.


Mt. Haley twp supervisor and his zoning director go on a peeping tom ride every year. I have caught them twice using binoculars to look in my house windows. Creepy and disgusting.


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## alex-v

BigW said:


> Mt. Haley twp supervisor and his zoning director go on a peeping tom ride every year. I have caught them twice using binoculars to look in my house windows. Creepy and disgusting.


What did they say they were doing?


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## dachief

Call the law


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## feedinggrounds

BigW said:


> Mt. Haley twp supervisor and his zoning director go on a peeping tom ride every year. I have caught them twice using binoculars to look in my house windows. Creepy and disgusting.


I would call them out on that at the very next public meeting of that township, both times. Then it would be public record and demand they stay off property. Any future contact or inspection be in writing a reasonable time say 10 days in advance. That window peeping crap is almost hard to wrap my head around, up here in Skidway lake someone would get roughed up for that at the very least. Some things you just don't do.


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## pescadero

d_rek said:


> It was also really interesting to watch it double in taxable value just because it changed hands to a new owner, even though at the time it was still the same undeveloped raw land that it had been for 20+ years. Go figure that one out...


Not interesting, or hard to figure out, at all. It's an obvious consequence of the Headlee Amendment and Proposal A, both of which limit the rate of assessment increases regardless of increase in value.

Assume - 
You buy a house for $10,000
It's market value increases 25% per year

After 1 year:
Taxable value: $10,500
Cash Value: $12,500

2 years:
Taxable value: $11,025
Cash Value: $15,625

3 years:
Taxable value: $11,576
Cash Value: $19,531

4 years:
Taxable value: $12,155
Cash Value: $24,414


You're paying taxes on $12,155. 
You sell the house for $24,414.
The new owner assessment immediately jumps from $12,155 to $24,414


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## multibeard

I bought a permit to build an addition to my house in Golden Township (Silver Lake dunes) I got a big boost in my taxes. When I went to the Board of Review, I asked if I had built the addition.All I could get out of them was "You bought a permit, the three of four times I asked them. Ikept asking did I build. with the same answer. Then I switched to If I built what is it one open room or a fancy kitchen and bathroom. They stuck with "You bought a permit"

Then I asked them how did you determine the value. They pulled out my permit and looked at what it cost at the county building office. They had determined my taxes by the cost of the permit. I asked when did Lyle become an assessor. I got a 10% reduction for one year.

From there I went to the building office and told Lyle what they were doing. He called in his secretary and told her to block out the cost on all permits so they had to do there own work.


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## brushbuster

pescadero said:


> Not interesting, or hard to figure out, at all. It's an obvious consequence of the Headlee Amendment and Proposal A, both of which limit the rate of assessment increases regardless of increase in value.
> 
> Assume -
> You buy a house for $10,000
> It's market value increases 25% per year
> 
> After 1 year:
> Taxable value: $10,500
> Cash Value: $12,500
> 
> 2 years:
> Taxable value: $11,025
> Cash Value: $15,625
> 
> 3 years:
> Taxable value: $11,576
> Cash Value: $19,531
> 
> 4 years:
> Taxable value: $12,155
> Cash Value: $24,414
> 
> 
> You're paying taxes on $12,155.
> You sell the house for $24,414.
> The new owner assessment immediately jumps from $12,155 to $24,414


Great explanation of how that works.


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## pescadero

brushbuster said:


> Great explanation of how that works.


Yep... it's also why your home value can go down, but your taxes can continue to go up.


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## Luv2hunteup

There always seems to be a delay with SEV going down. Ours just went down a little over 14%.


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## DirtySteve

Trophy Specialist said:


> The U.P. is different than the L.P. concerning building "camps". Camps are a tradition in the U.P. and I would guess than the vast majority were built there with no permits. I only know of one person that bothered to get a permit for a camp in the U.P. and by camp, I'm talking about a small cabin with no power or water. The inspector actually got a laugh out of it as he had never actually inspected a camp before.


My buddy built a really cool camp In chippewa county. He went into his Twp office and inquired about permits. He was very honest about his intentions. It was an off the grid place. The Inspector thought about it and said where are you building this thing again? He showed him on the map where his 20 acres was and the snowmobile trail he used to access it. The inspecter said aw hell just go build your "shed". If you ever decide to add electricity, running water,or expand come talk to me and we will catch up with the permit process later. He said nobody was going to drive back there to inspect a camp.


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