# Respect the Resource.



## axisgear (Jan 24, 2007)

sea nympho said:


> ...and a big flathead will outfight them both put together! lmao!!


Ya sure got that right!


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## bowonly (Oct 31, 2006)

A steelhead will gas before a laker will.

I hope you meant a laker will gas before a steelhead? Because making a statement that laker fights more than steelhead is funny! Makes me think you never caught either one. Sea nympho, I will be laughing at this one a long time.


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

natural reproduction is minimal everywhere but the pm? yeah...some rivers true, but i know of several tribs, streams....even tiny creeks that have plenty of natural reproduction. 

it doesn't matter to me...changed my opinion....to hell with it ROPE THEM ALL:evil::lolif you so choose)


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

thousandcasts said:


> I keep a limit now and then...a limit of hens. More now...this time of year. Steelhead eat eggs, hens have eggs...sacrifices must be made for the greater good, simple as that. :evil:


:lol: In the spring, anchor NEVER get's pulled for a male, but with any hen the anchor is pulled in 10 seconds, the fish is chased down with the boat and netted ASAP:evil:


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

TSS Caddis said:


> :lol: In the spring, anchor NEVER get's pulled for a male, but with any hen the anchor is pulled in 10 seconds, the fish is chased down with the boat and netted ASAP:evil:


It's truly an art form, isn't it? :lol:


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

bowonly said:


> I hope you meant a laker will gas before a steelhead? Because making a statement that laker fights more than steelhead is funny! Makes me think you never caught either one. Sea nympho, I will be laughing at this one a long time.


No, you read my post correctly. There are pics of me w/ *BOTH* in my gallery here, if you desire proof. Can you say the same? 



Trout King said:


> natural reproduction is minimal everywhere but the pm? yeah...some rivers true, but i know of several tribs, streams....even tiny creeks that have plenty of natural reproduction.


I grew up a stone's throw from the PM's "Holy Water" (& one might wonder _why_ I don't fly-fish? :lol, and it's level of natural reproduction is on a different plane then the little dinky tribs you might see a hen or two on a redd now & then. Your use of the word "plenty" is debateable. And I didn't say the PM was the only place... but it's rare in this state for a stream to have a self-sustaining wild steelhead population. My greater point being thatThe Grand is opposite the PM in this respect. Respect the wild resource the PM has? Absolutely. But, the Grand? It's put & take.

You know, sometimes I just can't resist the temptation to jump in & stir-the-pot w/ you river rats!! My bad! :evilsmile 

Just an observation, but this forum seems to regularly run rampant with guys spewing emotions, and getting their undies in a bundle over just about _anything_, hyper-sensitivity, some are 'protecting their turf' , while others preach to folks about how they should behave, etc... Kinda feels like I'm back on the 'holy water' in Baldwin again.:lol: 

Really, LIGHTEN UP!!!

P.S. - Steelhead are great :woohoo1:


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

sea nympho....while you are correct on the PM probably reproducing more than any stream ect. When I mentioned "plenty" that is what I meant. Some of them are closed until the end of april, but i still see fish in them while trout fishing. In the case of the Grand, the River itself is a put and take fishery, but there are plenty of wild, naturally reproducing fish making their way up to their spawning grounds in some of the major tribs, which have a self sustaining population, as well as the smaller closed streams that do also. From what I've caught and seen caught in the Grand this year it looks as though there is a pretty decent amount of naturally reproducing fish in the Grand River Watershed. Anyhow I'm not looking for a huge debate that is just my observation, but you are right that the PM is probably the biggest reproducer of natural steelhead in this state, along with the Little Man and some other NW streams, not to mention most UP streams have self sustaining populations since many ar not planted up there. anyhow, tight lines evryone be safe out there...cya on the river.
alex


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

Trout King said:


> sea nympho....while you are correct on the PM probably reproducing more than any stream ect. When I mentioned "plenty" that is what I meant. Some of them are closed until the end of april, but i still see fish in them while trout fishing. In the case of the Grand, the River itself is a put and take fishery, but there are plenty of wild, naturally reproducing fish making their way up to their spawning grounds in some of the major tribs, which have a self sustaining population, as well as the smaller closed streams that do also. From what I've caught and seen caught in the Grand this year it looks as though there is a pretty decent amount of naturally reproducing fish in the Grand River Watershed. Anyhow I'm not looking for a huge debate that is just my observation, but you are right that the PM is probably the biggest reproducer of natural steelhead in this state, along with the Little Man and some other NW streams, not to mention most UP streams have self sustaining populations since many ar not planted up there. anyhow, tight lines evryone be safe out there...cya on the river.
> alex



Yes, the Grand tribs provide a large number of wildfish, but from here on out it's going to be hard to tell since the DNR stopped clipping the fins of the hatchery fish. Obviously, there's deformities on the fins of some fish due to them rubbing against the concrete in the hatchery raceways, but the ol' "no clips means it's a wild fish," thing isn't going to apply anymore. 

However, like I said, when the DNR did clip fins, you'd always get a large number of wild fish from the Grand, and those fish are mostly offspring of fish that spawned in the cool creeks through out the system.

I love wild fish...seems to me, their eggs are a brighter orange than the hatchery ones.


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## MrFysch (Feb 9, 2008)

Lots of good points here for sure....My 2 cents...lol...from someone who has guided for ovr 20 years and had clients kill 100's of fish. I agre in the put and take fisheries take what ya legally can if you so desire..i fishd the Niagara 2 weeks ago and caught 60 stelhead in 2 days..kept a bunch as they have no reproduction in the river. But in some of our rivers there definitely sustained by natural rreproduction. Todays fishrmen are better and more informed..hence thy catch more fish...i think restraint is best on these rivers...most of us know which streams im talking about. And steelhad are much more adept at survival than most give them credit for...revive them and they will be fine for the most part. In the end it comes down to ur personal preference to do! Just remember that 10 lber you rlase will be back as a 14 lber to spawn if it survives to return!


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## bowonly (Oct 31, 2006)

Hey Sea Nympho, I don't desire proof! You will never see a report or pictures from me on river fishing. And if you asked me if they are biting. The reply is always, NO! River fishing is getting over crowded and I refuse to add to the problem. I grew up fishing lake Michigan and the white river and the manistee. And your the first person I EVER HEARD SAY A LAKER WILL OUT FIGHT STEEL! Maybe we should just go fishing because I want to experience these laker's that fight more than steel. Your boat or mine? I keep mine in St.joe. Home of the SILVER BULLETS! June usually rocks for skamania!


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

> You will never see a report or pictures from me on river fishing. And if you asked me if they are biting. The reply is always, NO! River fishing is getting over crowded and I refuse to add to the problem.


Dude...that was by far the best thing I've seen posted on here in years. I give you a standing ovation for that one! :coolgleam


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

thousandcasts said:


> Dude...that was by far the best thing I've seen posted on here in years. I give you a standing ovation for that one! :coolgleam


Was it you with me the one day where I was fighting a fish while a guy motored by and asked, "hooking any", caddis reply "no".:lol:


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

thousandcasts said:


> Yes, the Grand tribs provide a large number of wildfish,


To add another quote from TC, "F yeh their wild, they were jumpin all over the place!":lol:


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## blastingcapsandsnagging (Feb 1, 2008)

Just because you can keep a limit of fish, biologically keeping large numbers of large steelhead is probably not best for the sport from a biological standpoint. If you want good natural reproduction, you release trophy fish. Having lived all over the country, I am surprised by the self-righteous indignation of folks justifying their keeping of fish. 

The only good news for steelhead I see in these folks keeping lots of mature fish is that presumably these folks eat large numbers of large fish. As a physician I have seen a number of patients who appear to have pre-mature dementia, similar to Alzheimer's, who have consumed large amounts of Great Lakes steelhead and salmon. My discuusions with experts in the area of dementia and my search of the medical literature suggests that the toxins in these fish may be a major factor in causing the dementia in these sportsmen. And, of course, people with dementia die earlier than those without--and they have stop fishing before that because of dementia. 

So, ironically, the lust of these anglers for killing salmon and steelhead may reduce the numbers of these anglers in the long run.


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

TSS Caddis said:


> Was it you with me the one day where I was fighting a fish while a guy motored by and asked, "hooking any", caddis reply "no".:lol:


Probably! :lol:

_"Steelhead, buddy--thanks!" _


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## waterfoul (May 18, 2005)

I say eat em all!! Put and take..... put and take.


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## bowonly (Oct 31, 2006)

I am surprised by the self-righteous indignation of folks justifying their keeping of fish. 


Well Blastingcapsandsnagging welcome to the site and I couldn't agree with you more!


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

blastingcapsandsnagging said:


> If you want good natural reproduction, you release trophy fish.


Not applicable when most rivers in Mi do not support natural reproduction. But I'm sure in your moving around the country you know that.



blastingcapsandsnagging said:


> Having lived all over the country, I am surprised by the self-righteous indignation of folks justifying their keeping of fish.


Great, way to take the 1% knowledge you have of people on the site and make statements about them.

I have not read every post in this thread, but from what I've read, I don't see any one being self-righteous and if TC is talking about keeing hens for eggs, we are talking of maybe 6 hens out of a couple hundred fish a year making it to the boat, your lucky he's only killing 6.

And BTW, could you pick an alias that would scream "pay attention to me" any more?


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

bowonly said:


> Hey Sea Nympho, I don't desire proof! You will never see a report or pictures from me on river fishing. And if you asked me if they are biting. The reply is always, NO! *River fishing is getting over crowded and I refuse to add to the problem.* I grew up fishing lake Michigan and the white river and the manistee. And your the first person I EVER HEARD SAY A LAKER WILL OUT FIGHT STEEL! Maybe we should just go fishing because I want to experience these laker's that fight more than steel. Your boat or mine? I keep mine in St.joe. Home of the SILVER BULLETS! June usually rocks for skamania!


Well, I* GOT* proof nonetheless, bro!! :coolgleam ...and YOU DON'T!! :lol:

I would NEVER ask you (or anyone) "if they are biting"

"River fishing too crowded..." Oh, _I see_, you're one of those river prima donnas, like many guys on this forum. And when you're out there, it's probably YOUR river, and YOUR hole you're fishing, too!:lol: Lots of _guys like you_ out on the river, to be sure. 

It's not yours, and you have no more right to it than anyone else.

I'm down with fishing together, you choose the place, I'll choose the time. But if you wanna fish the St Joe, I could CARE LESS about catching steelhead. You got 40#+ mudcats in there!!:yikes: 

PM me & I'll be there ANYTIME for some of that state record flathead action.:corkysm55 June is cat time, and I can't see how you find the time to go after skams when the big cats are in. 

OH WAIT!! I shouldn't have said that, now you're gonna start catfishing and "crowding _my_ space"!:lol:




blastingcapsandsnagging said:


> ... I am surprised by the *self-righteous indignation *of folks justifying their keeping of fish.
> 
> The only good news for steelhead I see in these folks keeping lots of mature fish is that ...pre-mature dementia, similar to Alzheimer's....die earlier than those without.


"Self righteous" you say? You are the most _self-righteous_ poster on this thread yet! Kinda like the kettle callig the pot black. YOU presume to come on here and tell people who _obey the law_ they are doing something wrong. Whatever. Call your state reps, start a petition or something, but don't just bitch on a website. I still can't belive you said "self-righteous":lol:, By your statements here, I think *you *are a paradigm of self-righteousness. 

Keeping a limit of fish DOES NOT make someone bad.

And your comments about guys eating lots of fish dying sooner may be scientifically correct, but in this context it's atrocious and absolutely dispicable for a _real_ physician to be saying, like you think it's great they will die and be out of your fishing hole. Dispicable. You're probably not even a _real_ doctor!:lol: A _technician_ maybe? I don't think _real_ docs would talk like that on a public forum. Once again, a dispicable statement.


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## TheSteelheadBum (Feb 7, 2006)

Could you just get those TPS reports on my desk by this afternoon?

Thanks......


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