# Baldwin Unit Options?



## Knight (Dec 7, 2005)

Hey all,

My FIL pulled a Baldwin Unit tag this year. He had a great place lined up on private land where they had issues with bear damage and we had two nice (300-400) bears hitting the bait for the first two weeks of baiting day and night. 

Early September, the baits starting going cold. Only a small(100-150) bear was hitting with any regularity. The larger boars disappeared for the most part. Now, for the last week and a half we have only two time points where what we think is one of larger boars walking through around midnight, but doesn't even touch the baits. 

Three days of hunting and no bear sightings or bait being hit. 

Yesterday, we ran into another hunter, hunting the same land(150-200 acres).  He had permission from the landowner, so we can't fault him. He has basically had the same thing, with his bait only being hit once. He said that they were running dogs pretty hard for the last couple of weeks through this huge section of private property and use the road this property buts up against as the spot where they retrieve the dogs typically.

My FIL is hunting the rest of the season up there and hopes it will settle down. 

Looking for any guidance on two things:

Any suggestions for getting the bears to hit the bait without just walking past it? We are using sweets, "bear-ly legal", grease, and small amounts of meat. No major changes in how we have been baiting or scent issues as far as we know.

Also, any guides/other hunters who have open active baits who are looking to fill a couple of days this week? 

Thanks!

Jon


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## Knight (Dec 7, 2005)

Feel free to pm costs.

Thanks,

Jon


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

You could check with the Nixon's maybe they have a spot.

As far as the baits going cold....Its the same all over.


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## TVCJohn (Nov 30, 2005)

FWIW....I'm in north Baldwin and now getting regular visits. Just trying to get a legal shooter in the daytime.


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## Knight (Dec 7, 2005)

Thanks guys, I'll check with Nixon's.

Jon


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

What the OP describes is the major issue with the Baldwin unit and why I haven't cashed in my points yet.

The issue is, since Baldwin is the most southern unit and close to the large populations of people, many the people with UP and Red Oak permits come to nearby Baldwin to train their dogs, then after running many bears off bait in Baldwin, they then head to their actual units elsewhere.

My suggestion to the NRC/MDNR for Baldwin is, since there are few permits that take many years to get and it's the closest to the big human populations, is that you can't train dogs in the Baldwin unit unless you have a Baldwin unit tag.


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## Knight (Dec 7, 2005)

Yeah, that was a huge bummer to find that out about the dogs.

I have 9 points myself. Hopefully by the time I can pull a permit, this won't be an issue.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

IMHO, a good solution for the Baldwin unit is, no training dogs there unless you have a Baldwin unit permit and make the first 2 days bait only. I believe now only the first day is bait only. Please correct me if wrong.
But 2 days of bait only seems like a fair compromise.

The issue's with the Baldwin unit are pretty unique and unique solutions seem reasonable.

Bear hunting is a new thing in the Baldwin unit. Landowners don't really accept the tradition of hound hunting and there's so few permits that it's easy to run bears off to land that nobody is ever going to bear hunt.


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## Knight (Dec 7, 2005)

I believe you are correct. Also, the last two days are reserved only for those hunting with dogs as well. 

The bummer is that the area was pounded by folks training, in an area of all private land. They may have permission on some properties, but definitely not all properties affected. And at least some of those who have not given permission are not "cool" with it. Legal? yes. Ethical? depends. 

Keep in mind, this is all second hand info. 

Seems like this would be addressed by now with so few permits being given out in this area. Next opportunity my FIL will have for this area will be when he is 70 something.

I think it would be fun hunting behind dogs as well. I think there can be a right time and place for both.

As the bear hunting world turns...


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

The MDNR bear folks realize that the Baldwin unit has unique issues and are trying to find a fix that everyone is happy with.

Most local landowners are not happy about all the dog training, in the least. Especially becasue of the sheer number of people training dogs there, with so few tags for the area.

Most locals are deer hunters, not bear hunters, and don't like others coming into retrieve dogs, even if unarmed. It's disturbing their own private land that they will be deer hunting.

Yet, bear hunting with dogs is a good management tool and a completely legal method of bear hunting.

The bottom line is, MDNR wants to properly manage the bear population in the Baldwin unit. If there's conflicts where not enough bear are being killed because they were run off active baits by those merely training dogs in the Baldwin unit that don't even have a Baldwin tag, then that's a problem for MDNR.

If someone has a tag for Baldwin, they should be able to train their dogs there. But if there's lots of guys with UP tags training there also, and limited bears and limited tags, and realistically limited bear habitat, then it's a bit of a mess.

My guess is, all party's know there's problems and hopefully a good compromise can come in the next year or so.

If those running dogs were limited to only those with a Baldwin unit tag, I'm certain the conflicts between locals, landowners, bait hunters and dog hunters would all but cease. 

For enforcement, the person with a valid Baldwin tag would have to be physically present in any party training dogs in the Baldwin unit and be able to present that tag if asked by a CO.


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## TVCJohn (Nov 30, 2005)

Pinefarm said:


> The MDNR bear folks realize that the Baldwin unit has unique issues and are trying to find a fix that everyone is happy with.
> 
> Most local landowners are not happy about all the dog training, in the least. Especially becasue of the sheer number of people training dogs there, with so few tags for the area.
> 
> ...


 
As I'm currently hunting Baldwin right now.....

I'd prefer to let the hounds run only for the last half of the season or give them their own season. It was a bummer to be in my stand well before daylight on the opening morning and have a truck drive by several hundred yards away with hounds baying when they cut the tracks going to my bait. A person waits 9 or 10 years (should go up to 11-13 points next year to draw) to get a Baldwin tag, goes thru the time and expense of maintaining baits.....then you have to sweat it if a hound(s) will cross your bait and a bear gets killed off it.

Then there are the bird dogs coming in. This is from the 18th. It gets a little frustrating but....what do ya do under the current regs? Luckily I'm getting bears coming in regular now on this bait. It did go cold for 4 days or so after the opener.


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## dickey3476 (Dec 19, 2005)

the dog hunters are struggling this year also its not just the baiters. theres plenty of natural food and not many bears. ithink i would question the other guy thats hunting there on his tactics before i point the finger at one particular group. if you didnt know this guy was hunting the same area you are just think how many other people are hunting in the surrounding area you dont know about. im all for the splitting of seasons as long as they rotate who goes first every other year.

i **** hunt with dogs every spot i deer hunt and my freezers full of venison every year


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## Uncle Boopoo (Sep 15, 2008)

My family has owned 80 acres up there since the 70s, but we all live in SELP and we're all deer/turkey hunters. If we found out that dogs were running our property without our permission, for ANY reason, we would be livid! No excuse! We would rather have the bears living there, unhunted, then have your dogs run all over the place! :rant:

Sorry for the rant!


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## dickey3476 (Dec 19, 2005)

thats understandable and your right as a property owner. anybody that is on property they are not supposed to be should be prosecuted if they are intentionaly turning dogs out there or just trespassing. im not gonna get into dogs vs bait battle. alot of people are having a slow year even in the u.p. theres alot variables out there that could happen and who knows the bear this guy had on camera could of been harvested by someone else. thats just the way hunting goes sometimes. 

michigan has around a 20% success rate so 20% are gonna be happy campers and the other 80% are gonna point the finger at everyone else


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

I have zero issue with those who have a valid Baldwin unit permit training and hunting in the Baldwin unit.

The issue is, all of those people who have no Baldwin permit, never intend to hunt Baldwin, but come there to run bear simply because it's close to where they live.

The problem is proximity to where most hunters live. 

Like I said, the Baldwin unit's problems are unique. If the Baldwin unit was in the UP, guys from Muskegon and Lansing wouldn't be there running the bears all over just to run them, even though they never plan to hunt there.

I'm not suggesting guys can't run bears in the UP if they don't have a permit for that BMU.

But at least then it's spread out.

Baldwin has the least bears, the least permits, the most guys training dogs per bear, the most private land by percentage and by far the most landowner complaints. 

That makes for a unique situation needing unique solutions.

I think alternating years of bait first for 3 days-dogs first for 3 days is a good solution, just as long as it's clearly printed in bold in the application booklet. That way everyone applying knows.

The issue of people with no Baldwin permit training there will need unique solutions too. Maybe those without a Baldwin permit can train until mid-August in the Baldwin unit or something like that. Those with a Baldwin permit can train under the current rules


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## coyote/dave (Mar 10, 2009)

pinefarm..... i am a local..i live here....i run hounds with plenty of locals.. don't assume you know what the locals like or don't like... i just spent two days trying to get local bait hunters a bear on the last two days......


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## hound1 (Sep 26, 2011)

Pinefarm
I too am a local who has baited and ran hounds in my backyard.My group has hunted here since the baldwin unit was created,by far this has been the worst season on record for us.My baits are baited every day at the same time.I have 4 baits that i run my dogs off and 4 that we use for hunters.When baiting started i had multiple bears hitting at all baits,as the baiting season progressed bears came and went until natural food took over,as it was for lots of hunters this year.My baits that i run the dogs off is higher ground,an are visible from the road.So this means that other dog hunters find an run off my baits,not a thing i can do they are on state land.my baits in the lower ground was also found by other groups of hound hunters,and they too were ran off daily.I would never dream of running off someone elses bait but they do,but this still did not stop the bear from hitting them.I also had 2 different bait hunters and i have their picture on cameras find my bait and put there own in 70 yrds from them,again it is state land.As far as the hounds go i make every effort to stop my hounds from entering private property,but as soon as i unsnap the leash anything can happen and does.My appologies go out if your hunt was ruined by another hunter,whether it be hound or bait hunter.Every year a couple days before bear season begins small game season opens,people that weren't there before are now shooting and walking in the woods.Every year the first saturday and sunday of season a group of horse riders have a big horse ride,with desiel trucks running up an down the roads along with a multitude of riders.So i guess what i'm saying is that the baldwin unit is a tough unit to hunt some years.I myself don't like the fact that so many different things can affect a license that took someone at least 11 yrs to get,but when were hunting public land what can we do.


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## coyote/dave (Mar 10, 2009)

baldwin unit has a log history of hound hunting....carl t. johnson originared hound hunting in michigan .....he ran baldwin unit in many of the place i hunt in.....this neck of the woods has many houndsman who have lived here there whole life...(coyotes,****,bear,bobcats ).....


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## Musket (May 11, 2009)

I don't think I would so far as to say that Carl Johnson was the originator of hound hunting for bear in Michigan. I say this only because my grandpappy Benno Weidler and his best friends the Plotts had a hand in it as well.


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