# a really nice spike horn???



## east bay ed (Dec 18, 2002)

i am sorry but i don't think there is ever been a really nice spike horn. for the second year in a row the guys who own the property next to us have broke it off up our you know what. last year we let spikes go by all fall while bow hunting. the guys next to us shot four. i talked to them and this year they said no spikes, right. just talked to a friend of mine that said he stopped by their house and they shot two "really nice" spike horns. i am so mad i am thinking about going and buying doe tags for the next week then shooting every deer i see over thanksgiving weekend and filling up a trailer full of deer. i am so fed up with michigan deer killers. not hunters, but guys that have to shoot any buck to prove that they are a man.

red light, red light.

breath deep and think of iowa, kansas and canada. 

just need to vent i guess.


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## live2fishdjs (Sep 9, 2003)

Is it a fact that a spike will ever be more than a spike?

If hunting on heavily trafficed public land they are going to be shot anyway, so I might as well use my tag and eat them.

Not trying to start an argument, just my opinion, but for some hunters it doesn't take a "trophy" to deem a good hunt. A spike is a "trophy" to many people.

Sounds like you are on private land and are trying to manage for trophys-well within your rights. It is also within hunters rights to legally take spikes, if they choose. If it bothers you that much about your neighbors don't ask them what they shot.

As I mentioned before, just my opinion as a hunter, we've all got one.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by live2fishdjs _
> *Is it a fact that a spike will ever be more than a spike?
> *


No its not a fact, its an old, old tale that just needs to go away.

The fact that the neighbors went back on their word just shows you there character. You can't control it Ed, so don't get to worked up about it. More important things in life. If you haven't already, see if you can get the rest of the neighbors to buy into what your trying to do and then let peer pressure work for ya.


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## Duwammer (Dec 26, 2001)

Until some people get with their legislator and get the "law" changed, like it or not spikes are not on the "do not shoot" list. Personally I've let my share of them go. But then again, I've shot my share also. Doesn't matter to me what anyone thinks about my manly hood. What I choose to fill my tags with are my choice. I let nobody pressure me into doing what they think is best. Years ago it was taboo to shoot does, now look at it. The state has liberal laws so more can be shot. And you still have those that want nothing do do with shooting one. If the state thought not shooting "spikes" was better for the herd they would change the law.


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## todumbeagles (Jan 10, 2002)

I thought I shot a nice spike on opening morning. Ended up a three point (spike with one brow tine). First buck in two years, proud to say the least, seeing as I'm a new father and haven't had much time to hunt. As for Iowa, awesome, if you get drawn, been there done that. Now if you don't get drawn, go to Missouri and hunt the state line, get a Missouri tag over the counter and go to Iowa. Don't want to open a whole new can of worms, but I know how some of those operations go over there. Just like Michigan a few years back. Four buck tags a year, people filling there wives tags, unlimited doe tags, if its brown its down. I feel lucky just to see a buck in Michigan!!!!!! my 2 cents


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Maybe peer pressure wasn't the correct wording. Usually if the neighbors are holding off on the spikes etc, they start to shoot a few nice bucks and the other neighbors start to think, " hey, maybe they are on to something over there? Maybe I should think about this a bit" That's typicaly how it begins....and unless you get really lucky, you are going to have to pass on the small bucks if you want to shoot a big one. The guys on this site shooting nice deer have almost all passed on smaller bucks. If all you want is a small buck, have at it, I won't critize anyone for their choice, it's ll about enjoying the hunt. But if you want to shoot a big one (don't we all really?) then you have to make some adjustments in your hunting.


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## quix20 (Jan 14, 2001)

now see after reading a reply like swamp monster's i can agree with that statement, but to berate a guy for shooting a small buck is a joke. not everyone gets to spend everynight in the woods. most only get the weekends if they are lucky.

i want to shoot a big buck, but you better believe that i will put meat on the table for my wife and kids before i pass on to many deer. i dont go out with the intention of shooting everything i see, i have passed on many deer, but i always say the trophy will come after the table is set. 

i understand what qdm is, and what it is supposed to do, but dont agree with being lumped into a group that was mentioned in the first post.


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## bwiltse (Jan 18, 2000)

Just a couple of thoughts. Does taste as good as bucks and most areas from the middle of the state south have plenty of antlerless licenses available. And if you choose to shoot a younger buck because you're afraid your neighbor may shoot him, you're probably hunting for the wrong reason.

I can understand your frustration when no one around you is signing-up for your deer management/hunting objectives. However, I feel we're still accomplishing something even if my neighbors may choose to shoot young bucks we pass on. We had 4 hunters in our hunting party on the opener who passed on 5 different young bucks. One of them was a nice seven point that three of us got to see and pass on. And one hunting partner saw him a second time in the PM and shortly thereafter he was killed on our neighbors. There still was a lot of enjoyment with the multiple sightings by our hunting party. We would have preferred that buck walk for at least another year but it wasn't to be. And as mentioned above, it's not good losing much sleep on the things that we can't control.


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## Mike L (Sep 8, 2003)

I agree with the spike thinking but also you can't manage it if nobody will buy into your idea. we let the small spikes go buy also, but they walk 500yds away onto state ground and there done for ! I have let spikes go buy and within 5 minutes there's shooting. So whats the sense of me passing on them ask's my uncle? I say well just maybe they will miss and maybe he'll turn and lay down for the day and make it til next year. At least I gave him a chance.


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

I have killed my share of pretty big bucks over the last 46 years. Horns are not an obsesion to me and never really have been. Now I am interested in good eating and I can't eat the horns. I sure am not going to turn down a good eating spike buck.

Now go ahead and tell me I should be shooting off my does if I want good eating. In western oceana county the deer herd has been taking it on the chin for years. We don't need doe permits as we have fruit farmers. They took care of our deer herd with block permits years ago.


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2003)

I love the comments from anti-QDM hunters that go something like this: 'Who are you to tell me I can't shoot small bucks? All I'm doing is hunting to put meat on the table for my family. And don't you dare tell me not to shoot does because those need to be protected.'

Don't you see the hypocracy in that statement?


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

I agree with Ed. The term "really nice spike horn" is an oxymoron. Hint - try a Webster's if you dont get it.

Natty B.


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## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

BUT - I would REALLY really like to know how many people are DEPENDANT I mean really, Like my family IS GOING HUNGRY if I don't shoot a deer??????? I call Bull - doo doo - If you family is damn hungry that you HAVE to deer hunt to feed them - then you should think about selling all your hunting supplies, save the gas money and ammo cash and all the expense that goes with hunting and go to the grocery store !!! 

Really, I don't know of anyone that would argue, that if you truly were hungry, your and your family, that you can harvest anything you want to - if its the only way your going to keep your family from dieing !!!!

But what is the reality of the situtation? The fact that you have computer access and internet access etc etc etc shows your not starving and likely nor is your family so STOP IT !!! 

That is the laimest BS for killing brown its down I've ever heard.

ferg...


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## Freestone (May 15, 2003)

I agree Ferg, alot of guys could buy a side of beef with what they spend on deer hunting. It's just alot of excuses. It's the Michigan mentality that if I don't shoot it someone else will that we have to get past. Also I would argue that most guys who shoot any little buck that comes along don't consider their hunt successful unless they can boast about their "huge" four point to their buddies. I get a kick out of how many times guys say " I saw thirty does and one six point so I shot him. Man the buck to doe ratio is out of wack around here."


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## east bay ed (Dec 18, 2002)

i am not saying that anyone that kills a spike horn buck is a bad person or not as good a hunter. i shot one when i was 14, my brother has shot one and my dad took his first buck with a bow a few years ago that was a spike. 
people should respect any deer they shoot be it a fawn with spots or a spike. 
but do not tell me you are going to pass on them then turn around and shoot two after i have told everyone else that you are passing them up. now i look like i am lying.
when i have freinds who pay for non res. licenses and pass the spikes up because we "all" agreed to do so, is that right.

also someone mention that they don't have all season to hunt. join the crowd. i have hunted 4, 2 to 3 hour hunts during bow season and i get opening day and half of the second day plus thanksgiving morning to hunt. i might get a evening or two at most that i can sneak out this year.


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## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

> If the state thought not shooting "spikes" was better for the herd they would change the law.


I strongly disagree.......I think it has been proven that our deer aren't managed for their own benefit. Deer are managed, to a large scale, politically in Michigan. These influences include the Farm Bureau, Insurance lobby, license revenue, & hunter/public opinion.

Neal


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Neal _
> *I strongly disagree.......I think it has been proven that our deer aren't managed their own benefit. Deer are managed, to a large scale, politically in Michigan. These influences include the Farm Bureau, Insurance lobby, license revenue, & hunter/public opinion.
> 
> Neal *


I agree!


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## marty (Jan 17, 2000)

Yepper hunters opinion the last item Yep that about sums it up  ..........marty


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## marty (Jan 17, 2000)

Ed I know how you feel. We tried to let some does go only to get blasted by the first guys who wanted to save a couple . We tried 6 or better for two years just to see and it gets me about these nice spikes. Yep they're nice but let's try to repair what's left of our deer herd As I said before hunting is getting to be big lands rule period. Sad but true.......marty


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## quix20 (Jan 14, 2001)

east bay, yes i do agree that if all in the area agree not to shoot a buck or small doe or whatever then that should be adhered to. but at the same time, how many in the area that you hunt are actually doing the qdm. if everyone is great, but you cant knock the guys if they arent interested in qdm, or didnt agree with the intent of what you and your group are trying to do. i hope if i was to ever happen to hunt close to you that you wouldnt be upset with me for shooting a spike if we never agreed that we would pass on one. i can understand being disappointed at a lost opportunity, but i cant see being upset with an individual over something like this. maybe i am not seeing along the same lines, but this is what i feel about it.

ferg, if it is any of your business. no i cant always afford to put meat on my table from the grocery store. i live paycheck to paycheck like most who count on hunting/fishing seasons to put food on their tables. i dont spend alot on hunting seasons. most of my equipment is hand me downs from my dad and my grandfather and uncles. i hunt out of stands that they put up, i use one of my dads or my grandfathers old guns. i pay for the license that i use to shoot whatever it is that i want to no matter how big or how small. never in any of my previous posts did i put anything in there about it being brown and its down. i dont shoot every deer i see, i try not to shoot small ones, i practice what i believe. if you really think about it how much beef will i be able to buy if i dont buy a 27$ license and a 7$ doe permit? not very much, especially with the price of beef now a days. i did not say that my family was starving, but i would rather have a freezer full of venison and be able to save the money that i would be spending on beef if not for that fact.

like i have said before, i dont think there is a hunter in michigan or anywhere that wouldnt rather shoot a big buck. but in some areas you have to take what comes along if you want it. if not that is up to you, but dont look down on others for doing what you dont believe in. i am a christian and work with guys that dont agree with nor believe in any form of church. i dont look down on them because they dont believe in what i do. i treat them as equals and try to drop subtle hints when appropriate, but i dont lump them into the godless, no moral group of society because of their beliefs.


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

Hey Rob,

Bingo! You hit the Gold ten-ring, bro.

We have a similar project in the works at our place. Its good for your deer huntin', good for your woods and good for your pocketbook. A three bagger! Just be darn sure about who you let on your place to do some timber management. 

There have been a number of threads on the Habitat forum in the past couple of years re this subject for those interested

Natty B.


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## east bay ed (Dec 18, 2002)

we have logged off about 20 acres of the 80 we own. the people to our north and east have logged off about 40 acres each and the people to the west logged off about 15 acres all within the last 8 years or so.
two years ago we did the cut, clear and plant for free basically plan. cut out a few oaks and a lot of aspen that in turn payed for the bulldozer, lime, fertilizer, and seed.
our original clear cut (98) is growing up really nice and tends to hold some deer. my brother and brother-in-law hunted the edges this year and each seen more deer then my dad and i did combined. 

just something else to talk about

we had a big buck contest on the 16th. all of the top 10 bucks came of land that has a 6pt or bigger restriction. just some food for thought.


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

> _Originally posted by BuckBass _
> *Also, I still havn't seen where a QDMr is getting "mad" or "pissed" at an individual who is not practicing QDM. The anti-QDMrs keep accusing us of that, but nobody has been able to provide examples. Most of the personal attacks here seem to be directed toward QDMrs. *


BB,
You weren't around the site when the QDM forum was going overboard with insulting posts.......from both sides of the issue. Two members....former members now........were removed from the site due to their antagonistic rhetoric. This forum has risen hackles all over the state, that's why it has a high number of moderators and is closely watched.

Trust me when I say there were posts that were more than "mad". They were insulting, sarcastic, and vitriolic in nature. As I said above, they came from both sides of the issue.


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## Robert W. McCoy Jr (Jan 18, 2002)

I think that is the best thing I have found in years for good property managment.


I really like the job the Timberer did I my land and he isn't done yet.

I just want to stagger it a little so everything wasn't cut the same year.


It has helped me out alot in being able to better see why the deer are moving through certain areas.


Also I didn't have him chip anything and now the birds and rabbits have a ton of cover. With all the brush.

It's working already for the birds I have never seen so many grouse in one spot.


The rabbits aren't taking to it yet but hopefully after next spring it will be thick enough.


Now I gotta get my own tractor so I can take care of cutting more trails and planting etc.


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Robert W. McCoy Jr _
> *
> Also I didn't have him chip anything and now the birds and rabbits have a ton of cover. With all the brush. *


The use of chippers really eliminates a lot of valuable game cover. The rabbits will take to it. They really need the protection of large brush piles.


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## Tony H. (Feb 6, 2003)

Here's the bottom line.

There are those with a bit of education and sense in them. They understand and, generally, appreciate the benefits of QDM.

The others? Well, they shoot whatever they see and seldom find the ones they do fill with buckshot. Eventually, they'll either kick off, quit hunting or be squeezed out by the growing number of people who are fed up with their garbage. Keep faith. Soon enough they'll get what's coming to them.


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## Kevin (Oct 4, 2000)

Rob,
As you pointed out, bolstering habitat for the whole array of species may be as, if not more, important than any qdm-specific "bottom line."


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## quest32a (Sep 25, 2001)

Tony, your arrogance never ceases to amaze me. Again you come on here and discredit anyone who disagrees with your thinking. Honestly man, i agree with you on many things(much of qdm makes sense). But your delivery is that of a bull in a china shop. 

Your condescending attitude will get you nowhere. In fact it probably pushes more people away from your beliefs. I don't mind a rational converstaion on the merits of qdm, but to have my intelligence and many others members intelligence insulted because they don't agree with you? That is out of line!

I understand that you care about qdm and the outdoors in general. But if you ever want to change peoples minds you will have to change your attitude. Because honestly it sucks!


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## Tony H. (Feb 6, 2003)

Actually quest I, personally, care nothing about anyone's personal opinion of me. Because what I'm stating is not an opinion based on my personal beliefs. It's one based on fact. Michigan's deer hunting is in serious jeopardy because of ignorance and years of Traditional Deer Management techniques. I care about the future and I''ve simply had it with guys who care nothing about the resource and use their ignorance as an excuse to continue down the wrong path for deer hunting's future in Michigan. They balk at ANY idea that would keep them from firing 20-30 shots a day and bragging about that "big spike" they shot. The science is there that proves, without doubt, limiting buck kills and maintaining adequate doe kills is the ONLY way to have a herd that can meet the requirements of today's social carrying capacity. My response was not meant to be arrogant, it's simply a stance of frustration. I'm sick and tired of people who don't take the time to educated themselves on issues and then try to label those who do as "elitists", "trophy hunters" or "arrogant."

Go to www.battlecreekenquirer.com and check out the story on QDM. Let me know if you find something in there that states QDM will eliminate the deer herd or that QDM prevents hunters from shooting does. It doesn't. And yet several people called to complain about QDM and cited those exact reasons. Some said they won't support QDM because they want to fill their doe tags. What????!!??? That's what QDM encourages! But these people don't want ANY kind of change and so they simply complain and bristle at the notion without even having an inkling of what the program is really about. That's what gets me so irritated. There is a certain segment out there who not only has no clue about science-based management they REFUSE to learn about it. And so the rest of us have to suffer because of it.

So I do apologize if I offended anyone out there. But, I suppose, that comes with the territory if you dare to think outside the box. I'm not trying to turn anyone away. But I'm not going to sugar-coat things either. Those folks have had their way for 100 years and look what it's got us. It's time to change.


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

It's time to close this thread.


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