# Cohos



## Mr_Dease (Aug 30, 2011)

I have read the papers posted on the food web changes in Lake Huron as a result of the muscles and understand the reasons for the elimination of the Chinook stocking in almost all of lake Huron. Hopefully one day in the next decade or two we will see a sustained Atlantic Salmon fishery on this side of the state...I'm sure that's everyone hope but regardless it still seems a long ways out. I do think it a great project though and hope it succeeds.

My question is and perhaps I missed it in my research is why is there no stocking of Coho in the Ausable or smaller rivers close by. It's seems they are more opportunistic than Chinook and may actually benefit from the large goby population. Again, I'm not suggesting this is accurate but wanted to understand by someone more informed or perhaps from a member that is or has spoken directly with the DNR. Is it a food web issue for them as well or is a cost concern with Cohos in general? Is the opinion to take a long term approach to build the steelhead numbers along with the Atlantics and this will take decades (we are already approaching 15 years with relatively no salmon on the Ausable)? I the see the Platte had a massive run of Cohos this year but I would prefer to fish the rivers on this side of the state in the fall with my boy rather than driving across state. You can fish on this side in the fall but at least for me it has been a fairly poor proposition. Any thoughts are appreciated.....why not even introduce pinks in the short term; there fun to catch.


----------



## MapleRiverSalmon (Aug 19, 2007)

Cohos spend a lot of time in the hatchery. The price point per fish is quite high. Also there isn't really and space to raise them currently. This is what I was told when I looked into it this spring. 
There is a natural population of coho in Lake Huron and I personally wish they would plant some of the cold water streams for a couple years just to see if it couldn't boost the population of natural fish a bit.


----------



## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

IF there is a need to establish a fish in the Great Lakes it's my belief that the striped bass would be a much better candidate than any members of the trout/salmon family. They should have went with the striped bass from day one. 

IF we must have a salmon, I would go with the Atlantic over any of the Pacific salmon.


----------



## SJC (Sep 3, 2002)

MapleRiverSalmon said:


> Cohos spend a lot of time in the hatchery. The price point per fish is quite high. Also there isn't really and space to raise them currently. This is what I was told when I looked into it this spring.
> There is a natural population of coho in Lake Huron and I personally wish they would plant some of the cold water streams for a couple years just to see if it couldn't boost the population of natural fish a bit.


The price per Atlantic is quite high, yet they keep shoving money down that rat hole without changing tactics or plant sites. As much as I love catching atlantics and genuinely want to see the program work, I would bet that cohos would provide more bang per buck. Also, I don't believe that cohos absolutely must stay in the hatchery so long. How about fall fingerling plants in some of our colder tribs? I personally know of a couple warmer tribs (one actually dries up from time to time) that host runs of wild coho. The fingerlings in these systems are forced to leave for the lake before they should, yet some still survive to return. 

Perhaps, Lake Michigan could give us some of the 1.5 million coho that they dump annually. I think this would only be fair, especially if they get their way and steal the Swan River Chinook plant like they are trying to do. Not enough room for more coho, or just not enough room for coho to be planted in Huron?


----------



## JBooth (Sep 21, 2009)

I don't know, I had some lake trout the other day and I'm fine with just letting those be the big dogs.


----------



## wyandot (Dec 5, 2013)

DecoySlayer said:


> IF there is a need to establish a fish in the Great Lakes it's my belief that the striped bass would be a much better candidate than any members of the trout/salmon family. They should have went with the striped bass from day one.
> 
> IF we must have a salmon, I would go with the Atlantic over any of the Pacific salmon.


Really? Why is that, on both theories?


----------



## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

DecoySlayer said:


> IF there is a need to establish a fish in the Great Lakes it's my belief that the striped bass would be a much better candidate than any members of the trout/salmon family. They should have went with the striped bass from day one.


In my opinion, introducing another major predator species to the Great Lakes won't solve any of the problems anglers would like to see solved. In 50-year hindsight, Stipers might have been a better option to solve the (old) Alewife crisis - having too many Alewives. However, we had 40 years of bang-up Salmon fishing, followed by some marginal years. Things (Alewife and Salmon numbers) now seem to be rebounding on Lake Michigan, although not on Lake Huron. The future of Great Lakes fishing seems brighter than it has for quite a while. Only people who focus solely on King Salmon are unhappy right now. 

Steelhead, and Coho Salmon do take a lot more work, and money to raise in hatcheries for a year, before they are planted. But the provide a decent lake fishery, and great river fisheries for sportsmen/women. They return in higher percentages than Kings, and Steelhead can live to return multiple times. 

Kings are perfect for reducing Alewife numbers. They consume Alewives almost exclusively from the time they are Parr, until they stop eating to return for spawning, then they die. They can be targeted pretty easily in the lakes, and they sure pull hard. But they have eaten themselves out of house, and home; and the lakes simply cannot support the numbers of Kings that Michigan Anglers grew accustomed to. Lake Ontario Anglers are still having a great time with them. 

It is very interesting that, after the DNR cut King plants severely, that only a couple rivers really have good return runs of Kings. It is my guess that an awful lot of the Kings caught on lake Michigan over the summer, would have migrated back to the Betsie. That might explain why the lake fishery everywhere else fell off as soon as those fish returned to their natal river to spawn. That happened in 2016 and 2017, right around the end of July.


----------



## SJC (Sep 3, 2002)

Fishndude said:


> In my opinion, introducing another major predator species to the Great Lakes won't solve any of the problems anglers would like to see solved. In 50-year hindsight, Stipers might have been a better option to solve the (old) Alewife crisis - having too many Alewives. However, we had 40 years of bang-up Salmon fishing, followed by some marginal years. Things (Alewife and Salmon numbers) now seem to be rebounding on Lake Michigan, although not on Lake Huron. The future of Great Lakes fishing seems brighter than it has for quite a while. Only people who focus solely on King Salmon are unhappy right now.
> 
> Steelhead, and Coho Salmon do take a lot more work, and money to raise in hatcheries for a year, before they are planted. But the provide a decent lake fishery, and great river fisheries for sportsmen/women. They return in higher percentages than Kings, and Steelhead can live to return multiple times.
> 
> ...


It's a myth that kings need alewives to survive. Any pelagic bait will do as long as there is enough of it. The bait situation has been improving in Huron. The bait is not mostly ales, but the amount of pelagic bait has been steadily increasing. Along with the increase of bait, I have seen a marked improvement in the fishing, including more and bigger kings. In 2016 and 2015 we actually caught more kings in Huron than my friends did in Michigan. However, I have noticed the # of wild kings decrease. I'm not saying it's like the good old days, but it's getting better and I believe that we could cautiously start planting more salmon.

Young kings do not start feeding on ales in the par stage. In the Pacific young kings live in tidal estuaries and bays eating mostly crustaceans and insects. After they smolt, they switch over to eating mainly fish and head for bigger water. The preferred water temp of the pars is also much warmer than adult fish. I think this is why we see the best natural reproduction in rivers that empty into drowned river mouths, like the Betsie, PM, Manistee, etc. These places are similar to the places that they kick off life in the Pacific. Probably why we also used to have so many wild kings in the Rifle and Au Gres before we it was so lousy with walleye...


----------



## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

A few people, who didn't fish lake Michigan much, but fished lake Huron quite a bit, may have caught more Kings on Huron than Michigan. Or, perhaps someone fished around Rogers City when the Kings returned (most from lake Michigan) to spawn. Other than that, there are far more King Salmon caught out of lake Michigan, than there are out of lake Huron. 

I get that other species of baitfish than Alewives are rebounding on lake Huron. But it is absolutely true that Great Lakes King Salmon (which we are discussing) focus almost solely on eating Alewives as soon as they Smolt. That is the exact reason the large reductions in plants of Kings are resulting in significantly higher numbers of Alewives on lake Michigan, this year. 

It would be nice if the DNR would plant some more east-side rivers with Cohos. There are some places that get natural reproduction, but no runs like are happening on the Grand, Manistee, and Platte, right now. Now if the lake anglers could figure out how to target them as effectively as they can target Kings, everyone would be happy.


----------



## wyandot (Dec 5, 2013)

I'm not certain the lack of kings is the only reason alewives are coming back. Doesn't it seem odd that as quick as the water levels came back up, the baitfish are coming back too?


----------



## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

The water levels were a lot lower, than they are now, when the "wifes" were at their worst.


----------



## SJC (Sep 3, 2002)

Fishndude said:


> A few people, who didn't fish lake Michigan much, but fished lake Huron quite a bit, may have caught more Kings on Huron than Michigan. Or, perhaps someone fished around Rogers City when the Kings returned (most from lake Michigan) to spawn. Other than that, there are far more King Salmon caught out of lake Michigan, than there are out of lake Huron.
> 
> I get that other species of baitfish than Alewives are rebounding on lake Huron. But it is absolutely true that Great Lakes King Salmon (which we are discussing) focus almost solely on eating Alewives as soon as they Smolt. That is the exact reason the large reductions in plants of Kings are resulting in significantly higher numbers of Alewives on lake Michigan, this year.
> 
> It would be nice if the DNR would plant some more east-side rivers with Cohos. There are some places that get natural reproduction, but no runs like are happening on the Grand, Manistee, and Platte, right now. Now if the lake anglers could figure out how to target them as effectively as they can target Kings, everyone would be happy.


My cousin's boat is in Frankfort and he probably puts more hours on it than 80% of the people who fish lake Michigan. He's also a successful tournament fisherman. The two previous seasons we caught more kings in Huron than he did in Michigan. FACT. 

Kings in Lake Michigan focus almost solely on alewives because that's the only pelagic bait that appears in quantity. I do fish northern Huron. The last three seasons we have started catching kings as soon as the boat hit the water. We are still catching immature fish. I fished up there during the "good old days" and even then kings did not start showing up in #'s til July and it was over as soon as the spawners ran. This summer we marked bait like I never have. Some of it was even ales, but not most. All fish caught of all species were very healthy, with the exception of one that had BKD, and even it was fat. I don't think that most of the Swan fish are going to Lake Michigan now, since virtually 75% of the fish we catch are clipped. When planted fish leave Swan, how do they know which way to go? What makes them decide to turn left, right or straight? Do they somehow know that there's ales around the horn and seek them out? I think not. I think they wander where they may until they find food, then stick with it as long as they can. I would bet a certain number made a left turn even when Huron was full of ales. 

The # of wild cohos on the eastside is small and seems to be dwindling. It's also true that no east side river get runs even close to the rivers you mentioned. Of course, the rivers you mentioned collectively receive over a million cohos annually. I'm sure if we had some plants like that in a few rivers over here, we would see similar returns. The boats seem to target Cohos very well in southern Huron and Michigan. They provide great spring fishing, are very good eating, and bite well in the river. I think it would be great to have more cohos in Huron.


----------



## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Thanks for the additional info, SJC. I don't fish the lakes for Salmon, and was relying on information I had heard from others, and some of it is outdated. I did hear reliable reports of schools of Smelt in upper Huron, last summer, that stretched for miles. It would be great to see Alewives at least become re-established in Huron again. Saginaw Bay used to be a fantastic nursery for them. 

It _*really would be great*_ to have more Cohos in Huron. And more Steelhead. It does kind of seem like the DNR has turned their back on Huron in favor of maintaining a good fishery on Lake Michigan. You can still find great deals on Salmon boats all over the east side. Now they are Walleye boats, though.


----------



## SJC (Sep 3, 2002)

I agree. Huron has been showing signs of improvement for awhile now. I have been seeing more bait each year, even some ales. I think the thing that is holding them back is all the walleye that live in their nursery. Smelt is the main bait we find in fish with bloaters second. Parts of the lake have a really good mixed bag fishery with with good #'s of silver fish. I think there is plenty of room for improvement and get frustrated when I hear people write off Huron as dead or that there's no hope of it ever having a significant salmon fishery.


----------



## MapleRiverSalmon (Aug 19, 2007)

Northern Lake Huron coho last weekend. Wish they would plant a few of my north east rivers...


----------



## salmon_slayer06 (Mar 19, 2006)

I would rather see more perch out of Lexington and sanilac. The walleye are there throughout summer but more perch would be nice. The spring fishery out of Lexington and sanilac is so hit and miss anymore for kings and coho wouldn't waste my time. It's too bad there isn't any natural reproduction of the returning kings in Rodger city. The heavy plants of Atlantics don't interest me because they seem to be so elusive. But the best Atlantic report I have seen so far is the most recent one out of one of those harbors.


----------



## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

salmon_slayer06 said:


> I would rather see more perch out of Lexington and sanilac. The walleye are there throughout summer but more perch would be nice. The spring fishery out of Lexington and sanilac is so hit and miss anymore for kings and coho wouldn't waste my time. It's too bad there isn't any natural reproduction of the returning kings in Rodger city. The heavy plants of Atlantics don't interest me because they seem to be so elusive*. But the best Atlantic report I have seen so far is the most recent one out of one of those harbors*.


Then you’re not paying attention. The Au Sable river had a good return, and they are still getting them. A guide recently posted a pic of three Atlantic salmon in one day from there, on streamers. Also, a river to the north has turned out to be a sleeper for them, with strong returns out of every plant so far. The Thumb plants have been successful as well. Sounds like you don’t want to work to figure them out, and instead give up before you even try.


----------



## MapleRiverSalmon (Aug 19, 2007)

You haven't been looking very hard for Atlantics than! They have been a great asset to the fall fishing in the north east. Great biters pre spawn and post. Also a lot more wild kings and coho around than you would think.... I can't speak for the south part of the lake but I know the big water guys down that way did a good job finding them. Atlantics that is. 

We catch cohos on and off and for a fish that isn't stocked they actually show up a lot! Wish they would just give us a supplemental plant in a few tributaries that have good natural reproduction. That would be awesome!


----------



## Bay BornNRaised (Oct 23, 2017)

ausable_steelhead said:


> Then you’re not paying attention. The Au Sable river had a good return, and they are still getting them. A guide recently posted a pic of three Atlantic salmon in one day from there, on streamers. Also, a river to the north has turned out to be a sleeper for them, with strong returns out of every plant so far. The Thumb plants have been successful as well. Sounds like you don’t want to work to figure them out, and instead give up before you even try.


You Da man AS! As said before only a select few agree with you and the rest of us are to lazy, incompetent, have way less knowledge to you superior few lol. All we can do is keep trying, right. Good luck


----------



## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

Bay BornNRaised said:


> You Da man AS! As said before only a select few agree with you and the rest of us are to lazy, incompetent, have way less knowledge to you superior few lol. All we can do is keep trying, right. Good luck


Whatever you say, Fishmaster. Just because _you _don’t know, doesn’t mean _it_ doesn't happen.

Makes no sense when multiple people are having success on the East side, yet there are always naysayers doubting the fishery. Believe what you want.


----------



## Bay BornNRaised (Oct 23, 2017)

ausable_steelhead said:


> Whatever you say, Fishmaster. Just because _you _don’t know, doesn’t mean _it_ doesn't happen.
> 
> Makes no sense when multiple people are having success on the East side, yet there are always naysayers doubting the fishery. Believe what you want.


Another post with wrong assumptions. Best part of your post " Believe what you want". Which we are all entitled to are own beliefs and opinions! Good luck and keep up with your Excellent success with the silver fishing on the Eastside! Seriously I am wishing you and all others Good luck.


----------



## Ausable_Drifter (May 20, 2014)

Only thing that stopped me from catching Atlantics this year was hunting season........


----------



## MapleRiverSalmon (Aug 19, 2007)

So Bay born, are you saying no one is catching any silver fish in the north east? I'm trying to make sense of your hyjacked rant but I'm unclear of your implications? What knowledge do you have to support this? I myself have caught over a hundred steelhead this fall, cohos, kings, browns, Atlantics... I have been skunked 0 times! I caught kings out of my boat in tawas this summer along with plenty of other chrome? I'm confused? Do you fish for steelhead? Did you drift skein at the river mouths in early sept when kings made there first push? If so then we met and I'm sorry if you struck out! If not I guess get bent out of shape then...


----------



## Bay BornNRaised (Oct 23, 2017)

MapleRiverSalmon said:


> So Bay born, are you saying no one is catching any silver fish in the north east? I'm trying to make sense of your hyjacked rant but I'm unclear of your implications? What knowledge do you have to support this? I myself have caught over a hundred steelhead this fall, cohos, kings, browns, Atlantics... I have been skunked 0 times! I caught kings out of my boat in tawas this summer along with plenty of other chrome? I'm confused? Do you fish for steelhead? Did you drift skein at the river mouths in early sept when kings made there first push? If so then we met and I'm sorry if you struck out! If not I guess get bent then...


My post stated what I said, only a select few seem to be catching silvers in low numbers at that. I am not going rounds with who has more time spent fishing lake huron for silver fish. Like beating a dead horse. Nope never met and I can honestly say probably wouldnt get along anyways! As to your comment "Get bent" very sportsmen like... Uncalled for at that, so I will take the high road Not the High banks lmfao. Good luck with your efforts on chasing them silvers!


----------



## TheBootDryer (Dec 9, 2016)

ausable_steelhead said:


> Whatever you say, Fishmaster. Just because _you _don’t know, doesn’t mean _it_ doesn't happen.
> 
> Makes no sense when multiple people are having success on the East side, yet there are always naysayers doubting the fishery. Believe what you want.


I don't know why people doubt it, I don't mean to sound like a bragger but I stick up for my fishery, lol this fall I've caught over 100 steelhead, plenty of Atlantic's and kings and cohos and browns as well


----------

