# Another lost to Rage



## Got_2_fish

The comment about rage coming 5 to 1 over any other broadhead as far as negatives. Rage is a marketing monster and because of that they sell a ton of broad heads. Obviously when a company has that much product there going to have more bad reviews. I have shot em and I don't mind em. I don't like the rubber o rings that rot crack and slip off or the rattling blades. To each his own and shot placement is your number one factor every time. 

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## B Smithiers

Firefighter said:


> Deer are not lost because of broadheads, but rather because THE HUNTER made a piss poor shot.
> 
> Aggravates the heck outta me when equipment is blamed, when in reality the answer to the issue is in the mirror.
> 
> The title off this thread should be Another Deer Lost To Poor Shot Placement...


I would have to agree. 

Swamp you did not post against a cult, you a receiving truthful answers. A properly placed filed point will bring down a deer, you may not get much for a blood trail, however you take out the heart and you should watch the deer fall. If a Rage should fail it would amount to a nasty field point IMO. Unfortunately we have all lost deer with all different equipment, if you hunt long enough its going to happen. Those who have not consider yourself lucky! Its not the fault of the equipment. B 

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## swampbuck62

Firefighter said:


> Deer are not lost because of broadheads, but rather because THE HUNTER made a piss poor shot.
> 
> Aggravates the heck outta me when equipment us blamed, when in reality the answer to the issue is in the mirror.
> 
> The title off this thread should be Another Deer Lost To Poor Shot Placement...


 

trying to keep this civil but your post is a tad confrontational, you seem to have a knack for that.. I used to be the same way, and have been banned from several forums:lol::lol:

your sayin 4 professional bowhunters two of them TV hunters you would know,who shoot 1000s of arrows a year made bad shots dispite the fact that that two of hunts were vidioed and shots verified as good.. sorry should have mentioned that sooner..

but your right Firefighter, Equipment never fails it's always operator error..



just reporting the facts as I know them 4 deer lost in 3 years to Rage..

this is one of the reasons I love forums everyone is so personally vested in whatever they use and will defend it to the bitter end..and the discussion often turn bitter no matter the intent..

As someone else stated 80% of the people they talk to who hunt with rage love them..what about the other 20%.. I would say these 4 lost deer fall within that 20% range..


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## Got_2_fish

Just shoot the NAP kill zones, all the positives of rage without all the negatives!

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## swampbuck62

B Smithiers said:


> Swamp you did not post against a cult, you a receiving truthful answers. A properly placed filed point will bring down a deer, you may not get much for a blood trail, however you take out the heart and you should watch the deer fall. If a Rage should fail it would amount to a nasty field point IMO. Unfortunately we have all lost deer with all different equipment, if you hunt long enough its going to happen. Those who have not consider yourself lucky! Its not the fault of the equipment. B
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Ohub Campfire mobile app


cult may have been a bit strong..:lol:

but it is the nature of the beast of forums people have very strong opinions on what they use.. I could have said 100 deer lost in the last 10 years and it still wouldn't matter if someone else or their friends never had an issue..

I guess the bottom line is hunt with what you want the way you want where you want and enjoy..


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## FishKilla419

swampbuck62 said:


> looks like I have stepped on the toes of the cult of the Rage Broad head.:lol:


No. Refer to post #18. Sick of seeing the same ol crap on here. If you can prove the head didn't open, bash away. I personally have seen a rage 3 blade pass through a rib cage without opening. The buck was still recovered as was the arrow after it fell out. 
There are way to many variables in archery to jump right to the conclusion the head failed.(adding moving parts to your broad head in no doubt adds to the variables). Deer are not recovered every year after shots were made that should have put the deer right down. I have watched video of muzzle loader shot deer before starting to track them that were not found. They are very tough creatures and have a will to get away like no other.
Since the adoption of the rage head in my camp the # of lost deer has dropped almost to nothing. And for the first time deer were dropping within sight after being shot. 
I'm not going to preach Rage is the best. Every one in my circle will continue to use them until we feel something better comes out. I think sometimes they give false confidence and people take shots they shouldn't. Also I see all the time hunters using ke demanding 3 blades rage that have no business using them. 

Just another lost deer thread...:what:

And honestly just because your buddies (or their tv sponsors) pay big bucks to shoot big bucks on private ranches on film gives them no more credibility than you or I on this forum. Everyone knows someone on a tv hunting show these days. Not taking anything away from them as I dont know them. Just saying..
Here fishy fishy..


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## swampbuck62

Got_2_fish said:


> Just shoot the NAP kill zones, all the positives of rage without all the negatives!
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


have heard nothing but good about them..


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## swampbuck62

bigbuckmiddaugh said:


> I don't think you stepped on toes of rage fans by no means.


sorta seems that way...:lol:


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## boomer_x7

Got_2_fish said:


> Just shoot the NAP kill zones, all the positives of rage without all the negatives!
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


I have to disagree but wont go into details. 

There is always a chance of failure from any product. When it comes to mechanical broad heads, your adding moving parts. I don't care who made it, how fool proof it is, or how good their advertising is..... moving parts = more chances for failure.

Shoot what you want. For me too much time and effort goes into getting to "crunch time" to use a product that i know has a higher failure rate right out of the package....


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## swampbuck62

lets take this in another direction DO NOT WANT TO ARGUE...

so for opinions sake.. what do you folks think makes the perfect broad head..

I am thinking a BIG fixed blade, 
but like I said I am trying swhakers this year first time ever for a mechanical.. I have shot original bear w/bleeder blades ,wasps, thunder heads and Muzzys actually muzzy for the last 25 years...


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## SPITFIRE

Just shoot the spitfires swampy, and follow the short red carpet to your trophy .


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## swampbuck62

SPITFIRE said:


> Just shoot the spitfires swampy, and follow the short red carpet to your trophy .


got a buddy that swears by them..


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## U of M Fan

What makes the perfect broad head?

I would say one that is sharp, durable, flys right, and a shooter that knows where to put it.


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## GVDocHoliday

swampbuck62 said:


> lets take this in another direction DO NOT WANT TO ARGUE...
> 
> so for opinions sake.. what do you folks think makes the perfect broad head..
> 
> I am thinking a BIG fixed blade,
> but like I said I am trying swhakers this year first time ever for a mechanical.. I have shot original bear w/bleeder blades ,wasps, thunder heads and Muzzys actually muzzy for the last 25 years...



Fixed blade and one solid piece. Pyramid point. Montec, Snuffer, hellfire, wensel woodsmans, etc.


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## swampbuck62

FishKilla419 said:


> And honestly just because your buddies (or their tv sponsors) pay big bucks to shoot big bucks on private ranches on film gives them no more credibility than you or I on this forum. Everyone knows someone on a tv hunting show these days. Not taking anything away from them as I dont know them. Just saying..
> Here fishy fishy..


your gonna hook me but gonna try and wiggle off..:lol:..do have to answer this one comment , none of the guys I know hunt private ranches, they hunt free range wild deer the same deer me and you can hunt if we are lucky enough to secure a farm in a big buck area, the fact that they and some times me use an outfitter who leases farms and woodlands when hunting unfamiliar areas or there are time constraints is not a factor and sort of of an unfair assumption.. 

ok done with this let talk broad heads..


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## swampbuck62

GVDocHoliday said:


> Fixed blade and one solid piece. Pyramid point. Montec, Snuffer, hellfire, wensel woodsmans, etc.


let me ask you this how do the big fixed blades fly in a super fast bow?


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## 100 Grain

I've Never shot Rage or any mechanical heads. I stick to cut on contact heads.....Just my preference. I've shot Rocky mt. Razor, NAP, Satellite, Muzzy, Magnus, etc........Hell I've even shot deer with cheap walmart. $10.97 heads. Never lost a deer yet in over 25 yrs with bow. 

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## Firefighter

swampbuck62 said:


> trying to keep this civil but your post is a tad confrontational, you seem to have a knack for that.. I used to be the same way, and have been banned from several forums:lol::lol:
> 
> your sayin 4 professional bowhunters two of them TV hunters you would know,who shoot 1000s of arrows a year made bad shots dispite the fact that that two of hunts were vidioed and shots verified as good.. sorry should have mentioned that sooner..
> 
> but your right Firefighter, Equipment never fails it's always operator error..
> 
> 
> 
> just reporting the facts as I know them 4 deer lost in 3 years to Rage..
> 
> this is one of the reasons I love forums everyone is so personally vested in whatever they use and will defend it to the bitter end..and the discussion often turn bitter no matter the intent..
> 
> As someone else stated 80% of the people they talk to who hunt with rage love them..what about the other 20%.. I would say these 4 lost deer fall within that 20% range..


Not being confrontational, just being blunt (as I have been here for 6+ years).

Yes, equipment does fail - in fact, anything made by a human or machine will fail; that is inevitable, but you still beat a dead horse by making a blanket statement about equipment. I'm no engineer, but I do not think that I am out of line saying that every broadhead on the market today has a 99% effectiveness outside of user error. Fact is, I don't care how many arrows your pals throw a year, mistakes still happen - someone rushes and pulls a shot, the animal "ducks" the string, weather influences the flight of the arrow, a bow is improperly tuned, the list goes on and on. I also don't think I'm out of line saying that most shots I see on TV downright suck, which I believe is a product of "good footage" which also makes me sick. 

I've wounded animals in the past, and yes, odds are I will again sometime in my hunting career as I hunt a great deal. This is because of mistakes I have or will make since I am not perfect, not because of my equipment. Admiting fault is a sign of maturity in my blunt opinion. Only when someone realizes a mistake was from within and correctable, will they see improvement.

What did Einstein say? Something to the tune of "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". With this in mind, to me blaming equipment is insane. Tell your buddies to practice up...


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## TVCJohn

IMO a big advantage to any of the big expendables is they help make up for poor shot placement that fixed blades can't do.


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## sniperx043

dmrbigeshott said:


> G5 montecs and T-3's are where it's at!
> 
> T-3 expandable penetrated the opposite shoulder blade about 2 inches of a buck I shot last year. Chisel tip does the trick.


Pry the beat comment on here!! T3's r wicked!!

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## JohnBischoff

I don't know rages seem to work for me if you hit a deer in the right spot you can kill it with about anything even a field tip a would guess. Sounds like they made bad shots to me.


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## Sr.Blood

GVDocHoliday said:


> Fixed blade and one solid piece. Pyramid point. Montec, Snuffer, hellfire, wensel woodsmans, etc.


X2 .....AMEN BROTHER.!!
I'm a firm believer in the cut on contact type BH. I have shot 3 of 4 you mentioned with great success. No mechanicals here..murphys law applies with mechanicals...if it can go wrong it will go wrong (sooner or later) and at the worst time.

My nephew shot a real nice 140 class buck last year with 2 bladed rage. Broad side and put it right where it needed to be. Not sure if it did not open or what. 4 hours through grass, golden rod and prolly 400 - 500 yards later it was dead. But good thing we had the A team on the track job....Not impressed here!!


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## swampbuck62

sniperx043 said:


> Pry the beat comment on here!! T3's r wicked!!
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


they do seem to be popular...


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## FishKilla419

swampbuck62 said:


> let me ask you this how do the big fixed blades fly in a super fast bow?


Great question. This is my#1 beef with fixed blades. If someone made one that could go toe 2 toe with a mechanical. I'd b willing to sacrifice some of the advantages of the rage.


Here fishy fishy..


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## jrmy_1

Tron322 said:


> G5 Montec is no good, cost me a nice buck a couple years ago. absolutely no blood. followed the way I watched him go after 30 min. real slow sneak, no blood. went to a small swell hole, a clearcut, no blood. spent all night and most of the next day looking, no blood....found his skeleton during spring turkey scouting right in that swell hole, I walked within 5 feet of him but the tall grass was 6 to 8 feet tall and I couldn't see him, he only ran about 200 yards, and the Montec left no blood.
> 
> I now have Rage 2 blade, but haven't got a good shot yet. only shot was right after I climbed a tree, really noisy climbing, got the bow up and sat down, sent a quick text. looked up and here came another nice buck. first time I ever sat in that spot I made the mistake of looking at the body which was huge, used my 30 yard pin and the arrow hit right at the 40 yard pin, the rage flew great, but if I would have had the smarts to range things right when I got up there I could tell ya how those 2 blade rages perform.


I've shot quite a few deer w/out blood. If you smash the heart, nothing to pump the blood out of the holes in the body....

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## B Smithiers

swampbuck62 said:


> cult may have been a bit strong..:lol:
> 
> but it is the nature of the beast of forums people have very strong opinions on what they use.. I could have said 100 deer lost in the last 10 years and it still wouldn't matter if someone else or their friends never had an issue..
> 
> I guess the bottom line is hunt with what you want the way you want where you want and enjoy..


I do agree. Wounding a deer is never good, be it a Rage, Muzzy, or Remington. Fact of the matter is it happens and the best thing to do is own up to it, chalk it up to a mistake, learn from it, and become a better hunter from it. That is makes a us better as Sportsman. B 

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## swampbuck62

jrmy_1 said:


> I've shot quite a few deer w/out blood. If you smash the heart, nothing to pump the blood out of the holes in the body....
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Ohub Campfire mobile app


killed a buck last year muzzy 100gr 3 blade pass though dbl lung center punched both at @40 yards, a little blood where he stood then decent blood for 50yds then specks for another 50 where I heard him crash and I found him..


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## B Smithiers

I really need to start proof reading my posts before submitting! Lol 

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## TrekJeff

I've seen numerous shows with shots that resulted in poor placement, human error, mechanical error, **** happens.

No matter what BH I've used, every deer I've hit has died. Some had marginal blood trails, other bled like stick pigs, some bled and the hole plugged only to be found after yotes got to them.

I'd say friends of mine and myself are as tuned in as any so called "pro" with enough cash to have a show, point is I have yet to be able to blame my results on mechanical failure...and besides, if someone is going to make a show, they have to keep sponsors happy only second to their reputation as "Hunting God"


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## MillDoo

I just watch Tyler Jordan from real tree miss a deer from 50 yards and I'm sure he has shot thousands of arrows. How far we're these shots, did they get pass throughs, do you have videos to share?



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## FishKilla419

swampbuck62 said:


> killed a buck last year muzzy 100gr 3 blade pass though dbl lung center punched both at @40 yards, a little blood where he stood then decent blood for 50yds then specks for another 50 where I heard him crash and I found him..


I had the same exact experience twice. Same head.. 1 at 10 yards,1 at 25.

Here fishy fishy..


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## Waz_51

MillDoo said:


> I just watch Tyler Jordan from real tree miss a deer from 50 yards and I'm sure he has shot thousands of arrows. How far we're these shots, did they get pass throughs, do you have videos to share?
> 
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


I seen the same show, he was hunting at the Lekosky farm in Iowa...shot clean over that brute's back at FIFTY YARDS! FIFTY YARDS?!?!!? Jesus lord in heaven, that is a questionable shot on a whitetail, then, he goes back the next day and shoots one in the exact same spot at 50 again and it was a horrible shot! Way back and high...the only thing that saved his ass was that he hit the femoral artery just below the spine...if I was Lee in that situation, I'd be chewing him a new one for taking such a low percentage shot that he obviously isn't capable of in the first place (as evidenced from the previous day)...I guess he gets a pass tho cuz he's Bill's son and it's all for the cameras ...seems to be a common theme lately on all the shows I've seen...horrible shot placement, how sad...


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## GVDocHoliday

Waz_51 said:


> I seen the same show, he was hunting at the Lekosky farm in Iowa...shot clean over that brute's back at FIFTY YARDS! FIFTY YARDS?!?!!? Jesus lord in heaven, that is a questionable shot on a whitetail, then, he goes back the next day and shoots one in the exact same spot at 50 again and it was a horrible shot! Way back and high...the only thing that saved his ass was that he hit the femoral artery just below the spine...if I was Lee in that situation, I'd be chewing him a new one for taking such a low percentage shot that he obviously isn't capable of in the first place (as evidenced from the previous day)...I guess he gets a pass tho cuz he's Bill's son and it's all for the cameras ...seems to be a common theme lately on all the shows I've seen...horrible shot placement, how sad...


I always wondered why Tyler always used a gun and you never saw him shoot a deer outside a box blind with a bow. Then I remember watching the old Realtree vids with the 3d shoot....he sucks. Bow doesn't fit, way too long of a draw length, punches like crazy with a wicked flinch.


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## tc scout

After a fast reading of all the posts on this thread, my comments in order of importance IMHO.
Expandable Broadheads:Cost more, the more moving parts you have, the greater the risk of failure. People state they "fly better", never used them, never will, can't verify that. The easy way to get an arrow to fly straight.

Fixed blade: Cheaper, replacement blades cheaper. Cutting diameter is significant on fixed blades, bigger is better some can't get them to "fly" true, Tune your bow/arrow. I have used fixed broadheads for years, first the old "Wasp" in a compound and now Muzzy 125 Gr. out of a crossbow.
The old Wasp blades would actually break and shatter if they hit bone but still left nice blood trails. As I recall they had an 1 1/2" diameter cut.

I could go on and on, But, the bottom line is shot placement. There is no magic formula or super broadhead out there that makes up for a poor shot.


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## swampbuck62

B Smithiers said:


> I really need to start proof reading my posts before submitting! Lol
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Ohub Campfire mobile app


DITTO some forums will let you delete a post or correct it after receiving comments, this one will not..


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## camp42

You lose a deer with a rage, and you did something really wrong. They are DEADLY. 


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## camp42

And as for basing what "clients" of your buddy have shot and lost, that means next to nothing to me. I have been in camp with some real dummies before. And an outfitter buddy of mine could take up 4 hours of your time with stories of idiots that think they know how to bowhunt and have no archery skill


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## swampbuck62

camp42 said:


> And as for basing what "clients" of your buddy have shot and lost, that means next to nothing to me. I have been in camp with some real dummies before. And an outfitter buddy of mine could take up 4 hours of your time with stories of idiots that think they know how to bowhunt and have no archery skill
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


let it go man let it go...I have ..


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## hickabilly

swampbuck62 said:


> cult may have been a bit strong..:lol:
> 
> but it is the nature of the beast of forums people have very strong opinions on what they use.. I could have said 100 deer lost in the last 10 years and it still wouldn't matter if someone else or their friends never had an issue..
> 
> I guess the bottom line is hunt with what you want the way you want where you want and enjoy..


No cult about sums it up lol but that's part of comraderie I also believe duck hunters and musky fisherman are a cult to but shoot wht u like and wht flys good I got a buddy of mine that shoots nothing but rage where I have another buddy who would shoot brick with threads on it if g5 said to I shoot thunder heads my self (if it ain't broke don't fix it)


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## buckslayer54

So long as there is more than one living person on this earth there will be truck, caliber, and broadhead wars 

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## bwlacy

rgillespi said:


> I agree. you can't please everyone!
> however things to take in to consideration....
> 1 - placement! of course.
> 2 - the 3 blade works like crap... most of them do not open effectively
> the 2 blade works great!!!
> 3 - there are different types of RAGE, 1 for compounds, 1 for x-bows.
> if shooting 1 out of the other bow... they may and most likely will
> malfunction.
> 
> I've seen this a lot and the hunter always changes broadheads on the x bow to what they were shooting from compound. that will work IF they are fixed blade.
> 
> just my .02cents worth.



2? Everyone I know using the 3 blade loves them and has never had a problem or lost a deer. Maybe got a couple deer they shouldn't have, hard to say that.


I don't shoot them at all so I don't have a dog in this fight. Might try the Rage 3 blade with the chisel tip though.


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## Hawgleg

tsymmes17 said:


> Here are 2 pics. One on the entrance side with no blood and you can not really tell there is a hole but it is right at the back edge of the shoulder blade. The second is the exit wound that was just a horizontal slice. The deer is hanging up if you were wondering. Still amazes me that a 2" wide cut did not bleed like crazy from start to end but out of 100 yards there was about 10 yards of blood trail in the middle of the path he followed. That leads me back to my question of how?


I had the same thing happen this year. Buck piled up 35 yards from where I shot it, not a drop of blood. 2 blade rage from xbow. Last year same setup, was a blood bath!!


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## Waz_51

Hawgleg said:


> I had the same thing happen this year. Buck piled up 35 yards from where I shot it, not a drop of blood. 2 blade rage from xbow. Last year same setup, was a blood bath!!


The 2 blade heads are nasty when you get a slight quartering shot...like dragging a knife down the side of the deer...lots and lots of blood!


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## kenn1320

Shot placement is key, but even then sometimes things happen that can't be explained. I shot rage 2 blade and other then issues of opening in the quiver, they were devestating on deer. The newer models may be better. Check out this thread and the provided video.....
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=488581


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