# Discussed every year...Can we please SHUT-UP??!



## Rugerdog (Sep 19, 2005)

I know, I know...We talk about this every year, and even this year already. The internet is a wonderful place, full of information. Too much information, at times. 

Yes, we know not to discuss "specific holes". Fine. We know to use general terms when discussing "areas hunted". Fine. 

Taking this further, I for one would LOVE it if we could also quell discussions relating to:

*Flush counts*
*Bird numbers up/down*
*Counties/cities*

What else?

Bottom line, just shut-up entirely!

I don't know about you, but the pressure in "my spots" last year was insane. Don't think for a minute that a BB dedicated to the Michigan hunter didn't have something to do with that.

Two years ago, someone asked about an area, VERY near and dear my heart. Everyone gave the answer relating to: "Yes, there are birds there, have fun!" Then, some joker comes in and gives specific roads and such regarding the area. STUPID!!

We ALL need to be mindful of trolls when it comes to this. No matter how seemingly innocent, it has an affect. I hate it when my hard earned gas and boot leather go to waste at the stroke of a keyboard.

This HAS to go for folks asking about "thinking of going to such-and-such an area" type threads to. These are the worst, IMO. 

Last, I want to make it clear that I welcome other hunters, provided they EARN IT, just like I/we have. YOUR spot(s) could be next, don't give it away. 

Mum's the word, k? Please?


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## midwestfisherman (Apr 19, 2001)

Jeez Lon I was hoping to see GPS co-ordinates posted this year! :evilsmile


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

Rugerdog said:


> I know, I know...We talk about this every year, and even this year already. The internet is a wonderful place, full of information. Too much information, at times.
> 
> Yes, we know not to discuss "specific holes". Fine. We know to use general terms when discussing "areas hunted". Fine.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more with you. Just say we moved a few birds up north this weekend etc. Not geez we flushed 50 birds in 2 hours just north of XYZ. Come on. I too saw tons of hunters last year. In area's that are not easy to find with a ton of out of state plates.

This isn't pheasant hunting in SoDak. These good grouse spots are few and far between and like Lon said, lots of gas and boot leather are spent finding these areas.


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## GNS Shorthairs (Aug 6, 2008)

Wow, I guess I'm at a loss for words. Therefore, because I'm not a grouse/woodcock hunter, I would like to ask the following questions, for all the grouse hunters to answer honestly.

1. How many times have you actually taken directions (no matter how vague they may be) over the internet for your hunting excursions, specifically for grouse/woodcock?
2. How many times have you been driving down the road, saw a truck(with/without dogs) on the side of the road, and came back to hunt that area at a later date?

I am very curious about every grouse hunters answer to this question. Post your answer on an annual basis (example: 1 out of every three years, I hunted an area, that I never hunted before, because of somebody's truck was consistently parked there, for a total of .33 or 33%).

I guess my question is really, because there are a lot of hunters in your area, does it directly relate to an internet posting or is it more related to where you're parking your car? Personally, I would be very hesitant to follow-up on an internet posting, unless the location that is posted is within a certain distance of my hunting grounds. With this being said, I agree (even though I don't hunt them) that cities, crossroads, longitude and latitude coordinates should not be given out. If people would just abide by this rule, then I wouldn't have a problem, if I were a grouse hunter, if people talked about flushes/day, bird population on the rise, etc. Unless "internet browsers" suddenly began to follow-me to my hunting spots from my home base:lol:. We're all bird hunters, we want to hear about this stuff, we want to talk about this type of stuff, let's just leave the locations out of it. Give me flushes per day, tell me how many birds you shot, it gets me pumped up for my next excursion.

Next we're going to put a ban on talking about training because I don't want your dog to be better than mine or because I have an "investment" in training dogs (i.e-professional trainer, etc.).

I guess my vote is, talk about what you want to talk about ... just don't talk about locations. Sorry Rugerdog, I disagree (but agree a little) with your post.


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## MIoutdoorsjunkie (Oct 11, 2006)

BIGSP said:


> I couldn't agree more with you. Just say we moved a few birds up north this weekend etc. Not geez we flushed 50 birds in 2 hours just north of XYZ. Come on. I too saw tons of hunters last year. In area's that are not easy to find with a ton of out of state plates.
> 
> This isn't pheasant hunting in SoDak. These good grouse spots are few and far between and like Lon said, lots of gas and boot leather are spent finding these areas.


 
I agree as well.. Everyone should have to put the time, money (gas), and effort into locating good spots. No freebies.. I have a few spots that have been over run in the past year or so. Nothing hurts more than seeing an out of state plate parked in your spot, and, when you come back later you find garbage, spent shells, parts of someones lunch etc.. I think many guys forget just how many people read this board on a daily basis.


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## MIoutdoorsjunkie (Oct 11, 2006)

GNS Shorthairs said:


> Wow, I guess I'm at a loss for words. Therefore, because I'm not a grouse/woodcock hunter, I would like to ask the following questions, for all the grouse hunters to answer honestly.
> 
> 1. How many times have you actually taken directions (no matter how vague they may be) over the internet for your hunting excursions, specifically for grouse/woodcock?
> 2. How many times have you been driving down the road, saw a truck(with/without dogs) on the side of the road, and came back to hunt that area at a later date?
> ...


 
I dont think the problem is discussions of flush counts, downed birds or bird numbers alone. I think the problem arises when locations, cities, GPS coordinates, and crossroads are discussed in conjunction with the discussions of flush counts, dead birds and bird numbers. Lets not forget that this is PUBLIC forum that gets alot of daily traffic, not only from those that post frequesntly but from others that lurk and read daily.. IF a specific location is discussed on this forum I never take advantage of it.. Reason being.. it is worthless.. IMO the minute a location, specific area gets mentioned on this board or other public boards it is sure to be over run with hunters (both from michigan and surrounding states). That is just the way things work. Why would I waste my time...
Anyways.. I like putting in the work to find my own covers so I can share them with my hunting buddies.. I think Part of Grouse hunting is the enjoyment of scouting covers and finding new spots. I dont think anything feels better than finding a remote cover, knowing that you are probably the only one that knows about it, and having that cover produce. There was a post a week or so back about someones (cant remember who) Grouse scouting trip I think It was "hoppe's no. 10". It included photos and such but never gave specific locations. Great post, great way to spend the day and nothing specific mentioned. 
Trucks parked on the side of the raod could mean anything.. Bow hunters, bird hunters whatever.. I dont pay much attention.


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## Flash01 (Jun 12, 2008)

As someone new(ish) to this forum, I was excited when I found it and have found many of the posts to be informative and amusing...

But, there have been a rash of "I used to walk to school and back bothways uphill in the snow, etc." type posts about trolls and new folks.

Just wanted to say that this new guy is not "feeling the love". This will, unfortunately, probably leave me in the "troll" category forever.

Rugerdog, if you dont want your secrets shared, dont post any. But please dont tell the rest of us to Shut Up. I know you are more important than the rest of us, but...


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## direwolf23 (Jan 7, 2008)

GNS Shorthairs said:


> Wow, I guess I'm at a loss for words. Therefore, because I'm not a grouse/woodcock hunter, I would like to ask the following questions, for all the grouse hunters to answer honestly.
> 
> 1. How many times have you actually taken directions (no matter how vague they may be) over the internet for your hunting excursions, specifically for grouse/woodcock?
> 2. How many times have you been driving down the road, saw a truck(with/without dogs) on the side of the road, and came back to hunt that area at a later date?
> ...


I agree with this. I never hunt public land as I have access to more private land than I can possibly hunt. Why shouldn't I talk about what I see and how things go? Even if I did hunt public land, I still don't see why I shouldn't discuss it. If those that do post things like flushes and kill are willing to post specific locations as to where they are hunting then I guess it won't take them long to figure out where they went wrong. That shouldn't 

This is an attempt to regulate something that will regulate it self. If someone mentions a spot and suddenly can't hunt there anymore because of the pressure they invited they will no longer mention specific spots. When enough people see what has happened to others that mentions specific spots they will likely hold the locations of their honey holes close to the chest.

All in all, this is an unneeded rule that will only make the forums worse, not better. I like to hear this stuff to give me an idea as to how the population is doing in a general sense around the state.


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## GNS Shorthairs (Aug 6, 2008)

MIoutdoorjunkie - ... and your total for hunting an area, that you never hunted before because you saw a truck with dog boxes, is?

direwolf23 - Evolution through natural selection ... I love it.

Flash01 - Ah ..., ah ..., we're in America man. Post it like you see it. Participation is more fun than idleness.


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## geojasstef (Jan 23, 2005)

It&#8217;s a very touchy subject. On one hand you don&#8217;t want t give anyone information to any of your areas or honey holes but on the other hand how many times do you troll for information online. If you can say never then you hold the moral high ground. I hear a lot of people complaining that there are fewer and fewer hunters each year but then I hear others say that there areas are over run with hunters. 

I for one have gained a lot of useful (and some useless) information for this site and others that would have taken me years to uncover otherwise but just because someone tells me that they found birds at xyz doesn&#8217;t mean that I will have the same luck.

Also I&#8217;m sure that there are a multitude of other references where you can get information&#8230;I have read more books on fly-fishing and bird hunting over the last several years when I should have been doing other more productive things like working.

I personally would rather just see general locations maybe no more specific than the county you were hunting in, how many birds you flushed against how many you killed and number of shells used. Throw in a couple of pictures of a nice setter on point and I will be happy.
I hope that all the threads this fall don&#8217;t read &#8220;I hunted somewhere in Michigan and I may or may have not flushed some birds&#8221;

Maybe this site should be locked so that only members can view threads and posts&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

Flash01 said:


> As someone new(ish) to this forum, I was excited when I found it and have found many of the posts to be informative and amusing...
> 
> But, there have been a rash of "I used to walk to school and back bothways uphill in the snow, etc." type posts about trolls and new folks.
> 
> ...


Maybe things were posted a little harshly it's sometimes easy to write things that don't sound so great when read aloud. I think all anyone is saying is let's not post towns, roads etc. in which we moved birds. That info in and of itself isn't enough but, when a couple of people post "hey I hunt that area too", all of a sudden people can put 2 and 2 together. "Let's go check this area out". As far as birds go. I love seeing pictures as much as the next guy. But we don't need to say hey I moved 50 grouse and 27 woodcock in such and such a town. Why not just say "Wow, what a great weekend! We killed a few birds dogs did great and moved a few more birds than I thought I would". Still a great post and informative but, not explanatory.

I hope you don't leave this website because we are secrative about "our hunting spots". "Our Spots" are really most likely shared by many people and even though we may not know these people these spots are probably just as sacred to them as they are to us. And if they are not sacred to you have the common courtesy not to ruin it for someone else.


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## direwolf23 (Jan 7, 2008)

geojasstef said:


> I hope that all the threads this fall dont read I hunting somewhere in Michigan and I may or may have not flushed some birds



Yea, with a hundred replies of "me too". That should make for some interesting reading!


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

GNS Shorthairs said:


> Wow, I guess I'm at a loss for words. Therefore, because I'm not a grouse/woodcock hunter, I would like to ask the following questions, for all the grouse hunters to answer honestly.
> 
> 1. How many times have you actually taken directions (no matter how vague they may be) over the internet for your hunting excursions, specifically for grouse/woodcock?
> 2. How many times have you been driving down the road, saw a truck(with/without dogs) on the side of the road, and came back to hunt that area at a later date?
> ...


 
GNS, Point well taken. I can personally attest that I don't typically try these areas that are often mentioned, many people from out of state may. Or people who don't have a ton of spots to go. I don't typically post how many birds I kill unless it's a great day like, "Wow, I shot 3 grouse with 3 shots". Now that's fine and people can and do post anything they want. I for one am not going to censor people on what they say or do but, just use some restraint.


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## Firemedic (Apr 5, 2005)

It's kind of funny, all the people disagreeing with the original statement, hardly post here. 

I for one agree. Too many out of staters in the few spots I hunt, but I think this year with gas prices, you are going to see a huge slow down in hunting pressure. I saw it first hand during trout season. Places people used to camp the night before, I had all to myself all week. I hope it is the same for grouse hunting too. Am I being selfish? Probably.


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## DiversWelcome (Jan 15, 2007)

I have to second *firemedic* on this one it seems that the people that are so outraged by by what *ruger* has to say are people with very few posts, (hi guys nice to meet you are you getting excited for hunting season, the best place for grouse and woodcock is anywhere below m-20 goodluck lol) That being said I really don't see anything wrong with flush counts or number of birds but I don't think I would be spouting off about where I was hunting and this is coming from someone who just got back into bird hunting.


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## augustus0603 (Oct 24, 2005)

Not sure if I post here enough for my opinion to count, but if you're spot can be found that easily, it's not that big of a secret. If it's pretty much within 2 miles of a main road in northern Michigan, it's getting hit. 

I just like to pretend I'm the only one who knows about a spot. If I see someone in it before I hunt it, I probably won't go back there till next season. Doesn't mean I'm naive and think that nobody else hunted the spot I'm in all year, just makes me feel good. 

More often that not, if I guy/girl has to look to the internet for a hunting spot, they're not gonna kill too many birds when they get there. I figure more often than not guys not seeing birds is due to poor dogwork.


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## GNS Shorthairs (Aug 6, 2008)

It appears that we are all on the same page. However, where do we get this ...



geojasstef said:


> Throw in a couple of pictures of a nice setter on point


... I'm still looking to see a "nice setter".:lol:

Just trying to lighten things up a little.


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## augustus0603 (Oct 24, 2005)

If it wasn't for this site I would have never found one of my best spots. It's just off Meridith grade road. Birds hold really tight there it's like they've never seen any pressure or heard a gun go off.


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## midwestfisherman (Apr 19, 2001)

augustus0603 said:


> If it wasn't for this site I would have never found one of my best spots. It's just off Meridith grade road. Birds hold really tight there it's like they've never seen any pressure or heard a gun go off.


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## MIoutdoorsjunkie (Oct 11, 2006)

I have a feeling that this thread is not off to a very good start. To answer your question GNS... Rarely if at all.. Why does it really matter? Posting a specific spot on this board is like putting up a billboard along I-75. Anyways.. I am done. I have said my $0.02. no sense in beating a dead horse.


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## Pugetsound (Feb 5, 2002)

Take 101 south out of Cosmopolis, go past North River Road, then take any left on for the next 10-30 miles onto unmarked roads (if they are named/marked they are probably not good roads to get to grouse territory). You should be able to find birds w/o to much prob. Just a heads up though, you may see someone with a 22 shooting grouse. It's okay, we allow that out here. 

I am not to worried about giving up my spots per se, because you can go east or SE on logging roads for 50 miles and find birds.


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## Hunt-N-Camp (Nov 26, 2006)

Let's face it.... there are people on this BB that make their weekend plans based on the latest report, whether that is fishing or hunting. There are also people planning their vacation trip to Michigan based on the reports that are found on this board. Anybody who thinks that a hot report does not affect the traffic to that spot is sorely mistaken. I think generic locations are fine as long as they stay generic. If you want to help someone out and give detailed instructions then PM a message. I have been helped out more than once by someone pointing me in the right direction and I hope I can return their favor sometime.

Out of state -vs- locals.... I worry alot more about the locals pounding my spots all week long than a out of state vacationer. I think the Michigan hunters are also more apt to travel the state chasing a new hot-spot.

As far as pictures are concerned, post all you want. It helps to seperate the internet fiction from the fact. I also really enjoy seeing others with the same passion enjoying our sport, just not in "MY" woods!


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## metro49 (Nov 24, 2006)

Okay, listen up. I'm going to break down and give everyone a great tip. This place is guaranteed to have lots of action.

There is NO limit to what I'm willing to do to help a fellow bird hunter!!!

33 00 N... 44 00 E.....No no, don't thank me until you get back.


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## Biggbear (Aug 14, 2001)

I have read all the posts on this thread, and I'm getting a bit confused and concerned. When did the prevailing attitude come into play that the birds on state land, or the coverts they occupy become the property of any one. If I have some success and share that with my friends or an entire message board isn't that my choice? When did we as sportsmen lose site of the real reasons we started hunting in the first place? Everyone is so protective of their deer, their birds, their coverts or stretch of a river, why? When did it become acceptable to berate or order anyone else on how to hunt or fish? If I share my spot, and then find it over run with trucks the next time out, how does that effect you? And if my actions don't effect you, why would it be acceptable for you to tell me what to do? 

It seems to me alot of us need to get back to the friendships gained, time spent with family, and enjoying the outdoors and quit expending energy on what other people do, which you can't control any way. I for one would rather hunt with friends and share my success, than hunt a great spot all alone.

As for the insinuation that someone who doesn't post much in this forum has less validity to their opinion than those who post all the time, that is one of the most selfish, thoughtless, arrogant things I've ever heard on this entire site. Now to have a valid opinion or be a real bird hunter you have to have a ton of posts under your belt? When did typing become a pre-requisite for being a good outdoorsman and/or hunter? 

It's this mine, mine, mine attitude that is inevitably going to be the undoing of our beloved past time. If we don't share our knowledge with new hunters, young hunters, and people that don't like to type, our way of life will soon die out or be lost to the anti-hunting establisment. 

If it doesn't effect you personally, let it go, and put your energy into something you can cause a positive effect on, help a fellow sportsman learn to type so they to can become as knowledgeable an upland hunter as some of us on this site.


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## I'm with Brandy (Aug 5, 2007)

metro49 said:


> Okay, listen up. I'm going to break down and give everyone a great tip. This place is guaranteed to have lots of action.
> 
> There is NO limit to what I'm willing to do to help a fellow bird hunter!!!
> 
> 33 00 N... 44 00 E.....No no, don't thank me until you get back.


Your off just a little. 

33°19'56.93"N by 44°25'6.24"E


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

Biggbear said:


> I have read all the posts on this thread, and I'm getting a bit confused and concerned. When did the prevailing attitude come into play that the birds on state land, or the coverts they occupy become the property of any one. If I have some success and share that with my friends or an entire message board isn't that my choice? When did we as sportsmen lose site of the real reasons we started hunting in the first place? Everyone is so protective of their deer, their birds, their coverts or stretch of a river, why? When did it become acceptable to berate or order anyone else on how to hunt or fish? *If I share my spot, and then find it over run with trucks the next time out, how does that effect you?* And if my actions don't effect you, why would it be acceptable for you to tell me what to do?
> 
> It seems to me alot of us need to get back to the friendships gained, time spent with family, and enjoying the outdoors and quit expending energy on what other people do, which you can't control any way. I for one would rather hunt with friends and share my success, than hunt a great spot all alone.
> 
> ...


You just made our point by posting this less than informed post. If you want to bring your buddies, family etc. nobody cares. If you want to invite people openly on this forum again nobody cares.

The point is from your post that I underlined is it does affect others who hunt your spot. Nobody claims that these are "their birds" or "their spots", we are just saying lets not be too specific in the posts that we make. ie. number of flushes, towns or crossroads. I personally like seeing photo's that have a limit of grouse or woodcock in them. I don't like seeing a photo with 5 guys and 20 grouse but, that's just me, post away if you like.


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## I'm with Brandy (Aug 5, 2007)

wirehair said:


> 40? You must be a Noob!:lol::yikes::lol:


I have more those are just my central MI ones. You can get your own just go to this website and order them for what ever area you want.

http://www.northwindenterprises.us/

They have drumming counts to help too.


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## MIoutdoorsjunkie (Oct 11, 2006)

I think I said it first... I think I mentioned the out of staters in my first post on this thread and I want to appoligize for that. I opened that can of worms. I shouldnt have referred to out of staters so stereotypically. My bad. I know not everyone from (fill in the blank with state name here) litters the MI woods and exploits all of our (MI) covers. I welcome all out of staters that are respectful and treat our state like they would their own backyard. 
That being said.. I feel that everyone should be welcomed on this site to discuss topics, hunting, fishing etc within reason. Implying that your opinion doesnt count because you dont have 5000 posts is plain stupid. If you want to talk about SPECIFIC Locations then just PM/email/instant message/ text message/phone/telegram or whatever just dont post it here for the world to see. I too agree that pics, stories, and VERY vague locations are ok.. Just not specifics. Maps with no markings are great to!! ha ha ha... (Nice one "Im with Brandy"!! lol) 

As BIGSP said, no one is claiming that the woods are "theirs", that the birds are "theirs", or the states public land is "theirs"... I believe the guys that are defending the original post are just trying to preserve what we have here and ensure that heavy hunting pressure doesnt ruin it for everyone. 

Anyways.. Good luck to everyone this upcoming season.. Michiganders, Out of staters, those with concurring opinions, and those with dissenting opinions. 


Jeff


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## Amber's Hunt'n Buddy (Aug 5, 2007)

NEMichsportsman said:


> Why would anyone feel compelled to give specifics??? Reports are great, I love hearing about dog work , success stories, pictures make my day! Does it somehow make things more believable if I tell you I found a crapload of birds at a specific crossroad in Antrim County??
> 
> I get no more value or enjoyment if someone posts only the results and pics from there hunt vs. GPS Coordinates.
> 
> ...


I know that I haven't posted enough for this post to have any merit but I need to put this out there. You may think that this is an easy group to break into but its not. The first time I posted I was slammed by some of the "many posters". And because of that wonderful experience I am very careful about what I post, whether its responding to an existing thread or asking a question. I enjoy reading many of these post and do so almost daily. So I guess that makes me a lurker but I became gunshy. I am not suggesting that you slammed me because honestly I only remember a few of the names and you are not one of them. But I think you are mistaken to believe that everyone is welcomed with open arms, at least that wasn't my experience. I do believe that there are many, many good people on here that I have much in common with and if the proper effort was made I would find friends, however, for now I will slide back into the shadows lurk about and learn about all kinds of good stuff from those of you who are already friends.

Dan


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## Birddog8487 (Jul 10, 2006)

metro49 said:


> GREAT point. You forgot to mention one thing. When that guy from Ohio decides to visit Michigan, he goes home and tells his buddies about what a great time he had. Next year he and the whole truck load of Buckeyes come up and slay some more. All they need is one city as a base camp. From there they can just continue to scout. Pretty soon your honey hole is just a plain hole with no birds left.
> 
> Last season I was working my way through an exceptional cover of mine. Up ahead I heard the sound of multiple dog beepers coming through the woods. Pretty soon I see 6 hunters walking in line like a bulldozer through the woods. I talked with one of them and he told me half of them were from Ohio and the other half were from Indiana. I just about puked.


When I fish the Maumee River in the spring I see plates from all over the country. If you go to the Ohio Sportsman site in the spring and ask about the walleye fishing you will get some pretty specific info on the run. I still get mine every year so I dont whine about it. 
I have a friend that brings his dad and a family friend down here for a pheasant and bunny hunt every year. They invited me up opening weekend to sample the grouse hunting around their place. If this is the kind of reception you give your fellow hunters there Maybe I'll just take a pass. I cant afford to go up more than once this year but it sounds like that trip will have a devastating impact on the grouse population. What a weenie.


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## omega58 (Sep 3, 2003)

Most of my spots are crappy private spots where you get shot before you hear the warning, so I wouldn't try to go there. 

The other spots we found driving around the UP somewhere with a bunch of No Trespassing/No Hunting signs around.:lol:


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## MIoutdoorsjunkie (Oct 11, 2006)

Amber's Hunt'n Buddy said:


> I know that I haven't posted enough for this post to have any merit but I need to put this out there. You may think that this is an easy group to break into but its not. The first time I posted I was slammed by some of the "many posters". And because of that wonderful experience I am very careful about what I post, whether its responding to an existing thread or asking a question. I enjoy reading many of these post and do so almost daily. So I guess that makes me a lurker but I became gunshy. I am not suggesting that you slammed me because honestly I only remember a few of the names and you are not one of them. But I think you are mistaken to believe that everyone is welcomed with open arms, at least that wasn't my experience. I do believe that there are many, many good people on here that I have much in common with and if the proper effort was made I would find friends, however, for now I will slide back into the shadows lurk about and learn about all kinds of good stuff from those of you who are already friends.
> 
> Dan


Sorry you had a bad experience Dan.. I think everyone is welcome and that has been my experience on this board. I have been helped, had questions answered (even what I thought were dumb ones) and had some of these guys make every effort go out of their way to lend me a hand.. Everyone is usually willing to help. Written communication is pretty impersonal from my experience. Things can be taken the wrong way and people can get the wrong idea etc.. I wouldnt take anything personally.

Jeff


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## I'm with Brandy (Aug 5, 2007)

MIoutdoorsjunkie said:


> I think I said it first... I think I mentioned the out of staters in my first post on this thread and I want to appoligize for that. I opened that can of worms. I shouldnt have referred to out of staters so stereotypically. My bad. I know not everyone from (fill in the blank with state name here) litters the MI woods and exploits all of our (MI) covers. I welcome all out of staters that are respectful and treat our state like they would their own backyard.
> That being said.. I feel that everyone should be welcomed on this site to discuss topics, hunting, fishing etc within reason. Implying that your opinion doesnt count because you dont have 5000 posts is plain stupid. If you want to talk about SPECIFIC Locations then just PM/email/instant message/ text message/phone/telegram or whatever just dont post it here for the world to see. I too agree that pics, stories, and VERY vague locations are ok.. Just not specifics. Maps with no markings are great to!! ha ha ha... (Nice one "Im with Brandy"!! lol)
> 
> As BIGSP said, no one is claiming that the woods are "theirs", that the birds are "theirs", or the states public land is "theirs"... I believe the guys that are defending the original post are just trying to preserve what we have here and ensure that heavy hunting pressure doesnt ruin it for everyone.
> ...



All kidding aside. I agree with your concerns about over hunting an area. And maybe that is the real point you are trying to make. Every time I go into a grouse area I am fully aware of how many grouse I see and if I only find one family group in the area I will only take one bird, if its a small group I might not take any from that location and move on to another area. We can only be responsible for our individual actions as hunters and we have to take responsibility for how we hunt an area. I personally like to leave something behind for next year. I also understand that not all hunters think that way, thats why we have bag limits. I also realize that some hunters pay no attention to bag limits. I hope they get caught over limit.

I would not knowingly share hunting areas with someone who would wipe out the bird population in an area just for the sake of shooting birds.


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## fishinlk (Apr 14, 2000)

I think people sometimes put too much blame on the web when it should really be placed on that more people grouse hunt when the cycle is on the upswing and with improved information available online they can figure the cycles out. Sure if your dumb enough to say youwere putting up birds of xx road, it will surely see more people. All you need to do is go to the WI DNR or MI DNR sites and look at the flush rate tables and you'll figure out the cycle is almost always bottomed out in 1994,2004...... and the real upswings start to move in the 87,97,07. Once you've got that, the guys that hunt maybe once ore twice a year go 5 or 6 times. And that goes for both non-residents and residents. Those doubled up number of trips is where you suddenly find others in your spots that you hardly see a sole in during the down years. Those same maps are a start on what counties to look at trying out. Even if your just looking for a new area to try. 

I'm only lucky enough to be able to come up once or twice a year, regardles of the cycles because even the bad years there are better than here in OH. However I've got a half dozen friends that are at different point in life and the go from their usual 3-4 trips a year north to 5 or 6. Plenty of pro trainers also make the trips up as well. My last two trips to the western UP I ran into guys from Georgia and Texas and I think they had it figured out with out the postings on sites like this.

For what it's worth that's my take on it.


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## NEMichsportsman (Jul 3, 2001)

Birddog8487 said:


> I cant afford to go up more than once this year but it sounds like that trip will have a devastating impact on the grouse population.



I consider myself polite, but I have never thanked anyone from out of state for coming here to hunt. I have never been embraced by hunters when I am visiting their state either. I don't know if that particularly means anything whatsoever.

I am not sure how my reluctance to see a "helpful" hunter potentially post one of the coverts that I hunt on the internet... would make someone uncomfortable about hunting in Michigan?

It would be nice during hunting season to bump into a MS Member from Ohio who is hunting here in MI-I would just prefer it is at a restaurant vs. one of my favorite coverts!


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## Biggbear (Aug 14, 2001)

BIGSP said:


> *You just made our point by posting this less than **informed post.* If you want to bring your buddies, family etc. nobody cares. *If you want to invite people openly on this forum again nobody cares*.
> 
> The point is from your post that I underlined is it does affect others who hunt your spot. Nobody claims that these are "their birds" or "their spots", we are just saying lets not be too specific in the posts that we make. ie. number of flushes, towns or crossroads. I personally like seeing photo's that have a limit of grouse or woodcock in them. I don't like seeing a photo with 5 guys and 20 grouse but, that's just me, post away if you like.



The original post on this thread was a whole message about directing everyone to "shut up" so how is it that no one cares?
As for my less than informed post, is it less than informed because I don't agree with the original post or because I don't type as much as many on here so I can't possibly know what I'm talking about. Either way, telling someone else to "shut up" or what information they are allowed to give out is just ridiculous. If you don't like the posts where to much information is divulged for your tastes don't read them, or read them and then avoid the area if you're afraid of an onslaught of new hunters in the area.


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## hehibrits (Mar 10, 2007)

My log book shows that in 1994 we saw 3 other groups of hunters the whole season, in '99 17 groups in '03 5 groups, last year 26 hunting parties. Seems to be a bit of a cycle here??? If this board "hurts" your hunting how do you feel about Northwinds LLC.? These maps put more pressure on small areas than every BB combined. About every other day I get PM'd about locations, info, sometimes a PM to "hush up" I always give accurate info and try and point someone in the right direction. Not once has anyone offered me any info nor have I asked for it in return. I once gave an out of state hunter from this board my "secret map" for a three day trip of his with the only request that he mail it back to me when he got home. He did.
To me too many people take flush counts too personal and start to feel inadequate. Finds and flushes are terms that equate to running pointing dogs. It is the measuring stick of what kind of run a dog had. Not describing flushes would be like describing a baseball game by the jersey colors and pop corn vendors, not the runs hits and errors. If someone wants to sugar coat a dog romping through the forest story, great I'll read it, if someone wants to post some facts, great I'll read it too. If you are only concerned with birds, buy some to plant and shoot, run in more trials and events, go to the bird farm, there are several sponsors here that can accomodate. 
Unfortunately, I will not be here the first 10 days of grouse season as I am going to visit a friend I made on this bulletin board.


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## Firemedic (Apr 5, 2005)

direwolf23 said:


> I don't even know where to start with this... I can make a few thousand "me too" posts or I can make a few posts that actually have some content.


 
I meant to say the posts are not HERE in the UPLAND FORUM, had nothing to do with numbers. Sorry. And, I have been MORE than generous with my locations, as long as it is face to face. I will not give citeies, counties, etc over the internet, but if you want to ride up one day, I have no problem taking you to any of my spots......


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

hehibrits said:


> To me too many people take flush counts too personal and start to feel inadequate. Finds and flushes are terms that equate to running pointing dogs. It is the measuring stick of what kind of run a dog had.
> .


The great thing about finds and flushes being talked about as a "pointing Dog measuring stick" is, us guys running retrievers and spaniels talk about the number of "grouse retrieves" we had that day.:lol:

Finds and Flushes has much more to do with hunter experience and knowledge, rather then the sort of dog you are running. The ability to put all the variables that go into successful (how ever you want to define that) grouse hunting together to find birds on any given day are what is important. These variables can be learned through long hours in the woods, picking the brains of other hunters, or at times read on the internet. 

You might have the best dog on earth, but if you dont pick the right covers on the right days, your dog wont have a chance to point, find, or flush a grouse.

The key is to find a pattern on any given day, and ride that pattern out.




> Hit my honey holes with the dogs finally, trying to get them into shape. I am starting to panic that they won't last too long out west, but the good news is I had 50 grouse flushes and about 6 woodcock flushes in 3 hours. Family groups everywhere. One group had about 2 dozen birds in it. Good sized young birds. Had a lot of good dog work on the singles, the young grouse got a bit of an education by brittany. I have some good pics to post when I get home.


This thread is a direct result of what you had to say up above, congrats you had a good day....sounds like your spots will be good ones this year. I have a good idea, based on what you wrote, a few phone calls as to the general area you hunt.


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## Birddog8487 (Jul 10, 2006)

NEMichsportsman said:


> I consider myself polite, but I have never thanked anyone from out of state for coming here to hunt. I have never been embraced by hunters when I am visiting their state either. I don't know if that particularly means anything whatsoever.
> 
> I am not sure how my reluctance to see a "helpful" hunter potentially post one of the coverts that I hunt on the internet... would make someone uncomfortable about hunting in Michigan?
> 
> It would be nice during hunting season to bump into a MS Member from Ohio who is hunting here in MI-I would just prefer it is at a restaurant vs. one of my favorite coverts!


I am not talking about "thanking" someone for coming to hunt. I'm talking about a general level of pissiness against out-of-staters that seemed to be pervading a few post. I hope none of you hypocrites that rail against out-of-staters hunt public land for elk or pheasant or anything else outside of Michigan.

Having said that, I dont have a problem with what the original poster was saying about specific locations. My issue was strictly with the way a few posters were characterizing non residents.

In a different thread I noticed a few posters talking about coming to Ohio for the dove opener. I'm sure most of you will be hunting public land and you will find maps to the dove fields located on the ODNR website. Good luck.


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

I have zero problem with out of state huntes, they should be welcome in our state, we appreciate them staying in our motels, buying our gas, and eating in our diners.

I have a couple wish list items though that would benefit both intrastate hunters and out of staters.

1st. I think our non-resident hunting licenses are to cheap - you cant go out of the state of MI and hunt for less then 100 bucks in license. 

2nd. If our Federal Govt. would manage (read cut) 20% of the federal forest for grouse and woodcock, which would also benefit Deer, it would open up so much more land in the Northern Lower for all hunters. 

Hunter numbers are decreasing in our state, but the amount of available information via the web is increasing pressure in certain areas, we need to simply lobby to have the pressure spread out, by increasing the amount of cover available to hunt.

We can do this via support of RGS, the DNR compartment reviews, and comments on management of the federal forests.


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## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

Steelheadfred said:


> I have a good idea, based on what you wrote, a few phone calls as to the general area you hunt.


I call BS.
There is no way based on what you quoted above that you can tell where he hunts.
I've read it multiple times and cannot find one clue.
PM me with your best guess.


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## pts (Dec 27, 2005)

I understand not wanting to share your "honey hole" however i think that we need also to look at how this attitude affects future hunters. How many of us got hooked on hunting because we had an amazing hunt early on versus walking around in the woods for three hours and seeing nothing at all. Also in a state that is as depressed as this one do we really want to not promote one of the few renewable and nurmous resources that we have. Do not misunderstand me, I am not saying to give mapquest directions at the border but maybe we should look a little more kindly at those who hunt around us.


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## Rugerdog (Sep 19, 2005)

I will be kind and inviting, as I have in the past.

I will not, however, become an information desk via these pages.


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## NEMichsportsman (Jul 3, 2001)

pts said:


> I understand not wanting to share your "honey hole" however i think that we need also to look at how this attitude affects future hunters. How many of us got hooked on hunting because we had an amazing hunt early on versus walking around in the woods for three hours and seeing nothing at all.



I'll gladly introduce a youth or an adult to the sport...Getting involved in the sport via clubs and conservation groups is another great way for someone to forge friendships.

People interested in hunting birds or training dogs don't have to look to far to see ALOT of actvities. I have never been involved in a situation where people weren't welcomed. Dr. Wink opened his annual camp for a few years to anybody that wanted to attend. (This was in the heart of some of hi honey holes!) We had out of state people attend and alot of friendships were made as a result.

The point of all this (in my book) is nothing is gained for anyone by blabbing info to lurkers who are neither interested in getting to know their fellow sportsmen or contributing to the site. Like I said I will gladly spend time with someone who is interested, but I will not give location information of any kind to an _anonymous_ party on the internet.

I have talked with several members and they have expressed similar sentiments.


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## Rugerdog (Sep 19, 2005)

> nothing is gained for anyone by blabbing info to lurkers who are neither interested in getting to know their fellow sportsmen or contributing to the site.


Bang. Exactly. If I seemed rude, or un-inviting, my apologies. I hope I illustrated how open and giving I can be, in a follow-up post to the ill-conceived initial post.

It's the lurkers. Some of you still are not understanding the potential impact you have.


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## GVSUKUSH (Mar 9, 2004)

Fred's gonna kill me, cause I showed his favorite cover on my "map", but hey, all about sharin' info.....


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## Rugerdog (Sep 19, 2005)

Thanks for the levity, Kush...

I note that Fred avoids the middle. I call BS.


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## GVSUKUSH (Mar 9, 2004)

Rugerdog said:


> Thanks for the levity, Kush...
> 
> I note that Fred avoids the middle. I call BS.


My hand is not to scale, Lon.:lol:


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## Shotgun Kennel (Feb 9, 2007)

Rugerdog said:


> I
> I don't know about you, but the pressure in "my spots" last year was insane.


If you stopped going to those spots, you could lessen the pressure.:evil:

My suggestion would be to just move on and enjoy the day. Michigan is BIG!!!! Don't get worked up over other hunters doing the same thing you love. The problem which I hear from the DNR is fewer and fewer people buying licenses. We need to concentrate our wrath on the tree huggers wo believe clear cutting is a bad thing then maybe there would be more spots.


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## hehibrits (Mar 10, 2007)

Steelheadfred said:


> The great thing about finds and flushes being talked about as a "pointing Dog measuring stick" is, us guys running retrievers and spaniels talk about the number of "grouse retrieves" we had that day.:lol:
> 
> The CO gives me a funny look when my dog has a "grouse retrieve" in August So I have to stick with a flush count.
> 
> I do agree that out of state licences are way too cheap AND more of the Nat'l and State forests need to be managed to spread out hunting pressure and produce prime age cover.


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## wirehair (Oct 16, 2007)

I'm with Brandy said:


> I have more those are just my central MI ones. You can get your own just go to this website and order them for what ever area you want.
> 
> http://www.northwindenterprises.us/
> 
> They have drumming counts to help too.


Reminds me of those star maps they sell in Hollywood. :lol::lol::lol:
We need to use all resources we can to find them sneaky assed birds:lol::lol::lol:


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

more sophisticated than waterfowlers.........I have to see this. Man, the squabbling never ends. Thank God for SD and parts west. What a schmidt hole this states in.:lol:


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## g&d (Jan 15, 2006)

I fail to see the importance of whether an out-of-stater hunts in MI compared to someone that's a resident. He's American isn't he. I've been fortunate to hunt in several states and have been treated very well by the locals. Way better than most would be treated here for sure.

I've made some very good friends through the internet and have hunted with a few because of it. Most are out-of-staters. In fact, I'm hunting with two more in ND in Sept. I'm also inviting a couple more up to grouse hunt in Oct. One is from Tenn. and has struggled to get his setter into grouse in his home state. I felt compelled to invite him up to MI where we are blessed to have good numbers of grouse for his dog to get a snoot full for a change. I guess I'm a horrible person.

If someone is dumb enough to post their hunting spots online then they will have to battle that mistake, but I urge everyone of you, not to be upset when you see an out-of-state plate. They are just doing what we like to do but doing it in a state that has grouse. Unlike there own. Just like we hunt out west for pheasant, huns and prairie grouse.


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## BarryPatch (Jul 21, 2004)

g&d said:


> I fail to see the importance of whether an out-of-stater hunts in MI compared to someone that's a resident. He's American isn't he.


Apparently patriotism has it's limits.

Just who ya gonna call when Canada invades your covers???


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## BarryPatch (Jul 21, 2004)

Steelheadfred said:


> 1st. I think our non-resident hunting licenses are to cheap - you cant go out of the state of MI and hunt for less then 100 bucks in license.
> .


I spent over $800 on MI licenses last year and hunted almost exclusively on my own land. I have to disagree.


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## ohio hunter (May 31, 2006)

I am an out-of-stater who does not post much because I don't have much to add that I feel would be useful. That being said, many of you have offered advice to me regarding training and spent a good bit of time with me on the telephone working through dog issues.

I have also been overly sensitive to a couple of posts, but received many PM's and follow up posts clarifying and making me realize I need to take some of the posts with a grain of salt.

This board has been very helpful to me and I have learned alot in the 3 years I found it. (Even though I don't have many posts to show for it) Before I found this site, I seriously thought you looked for BIG trees for grouse cover. Folks on this & other sites and books recommended here and on other sites have helped me learn about grouse hunting. I have also been fortunate and greatful for being pointed to areas. But, I wouldn't psot those locations or pass them on to 10 buddies here in Ohio.

Hasn't helped my success at harvesting birds (1 grouse in each of the two trips I have made up and 3 woodcock). But, I have never enjoyed hunting as much as I do there, because I at least feel like there is a chance the dogs will get on wild birds. 

I have also learned that just because I see a grouse, I don't have to shoot at it if the dog doesn't point. I think this is the most important thing I have gained from this site, in terms of helping the dogs learn and making the hunt more enjoyable.


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

hehibrits said:


> Steelheadfred said:
> 
> 
> > The great thing about finds and flushes being talked about as a "pointing Dog measuring stick" is, us guys running retrievers and spaniels talk about the number of "grouse retrieves" we had that day.:lol:
> ...


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## Merimac (Jan 17, 2006)

Steelheadfred said:


> $69.00 is to cheap for an entire season of small game hunting IMO.


The problem is many out of staters only hunt a week. There is no week rate it is only 2 or 3 days or a whole season. Did this rate go down? It seems like I pay 80 bucks each year....I could be wrong


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

Merimac said:


> The problem is many out of staters only hunt a week. There is no week rate it is only 2 or 3 days or a whole season. Did this rate go down? It seems like I pay 80 bucks each year....I could be wrong


 
So pheasants in the Dakota's and Iowa are more important than Grouse and WC in Michigan? Because it is around 100 bucks for two weeks of hunting in those states, and I dont believe it can be consecutive weeks. Which essentially makes it a one week license...


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