# Jay's Fur Sale Results- March 24, 2012



## Beaverhunter2 (Jan 22, 2005)

Jay's Fur Sale Results- March 24, 2012 

Species	Count	Low	High	Average B4	Average After
badger	1	$50.00	$50.00	$50.00	$47.50
beaver	300	$2.00	$65.00	$28.87	$27.42
bobcat	1	$5.00	$5.00	$5.00	$4.75
castor	22	$1.00	$310.00	$67.07	$63.71
coyote	56	$0.25	$75.00	$18.85	$17.91
deer hides	2	$2.00	$2.00	$2.00	$1.90
fmink	38	$5.50	$19.00	$14.13	$13.43
gfmink	1	$1.00	$1.00	$1.00	$0.95
gfox	9	$13.00	$60.00	$30.72	$29.19
gfox gr	1	$22.50	$22.50	$22.50	$21.38
glands	1	$32.50	$32.50	$32.50	$30.88
gmmink	2	$3.00	$3.00	$3.00	$2.85
gmuskrat	3	$7.00	$7.00	$7.00	$6.65
graccoon	39	$1.00	$10.50	$5.94	$5.64
grotter	2	$102.50	$120.00	$111.25	$105.69
marten	1	$47.50	$47.50	$47.50	$45.13
mmink	159	$3.00	$29.00	$19.46	$18.48
muskrat	2775	$1.00	$14.45	$11.02	$10.47
opossum	47	$0.25	$6.25	$2.07	$1.97
otter	17	$50.00	$120.00	$96.76	$91.93
raccoon	976	$0.25	$25.00	$9.43	$8.96
rat glands	1	$100.00	$100.00	$100.00	$95.00
redfox	14	$30.00	$60.00	$47.43	$45.06
skunk	21	$0.25	$10.00	$6.82	$6.48
squirrel	23	$0.95	$1.30	$1.12	$1.06
weasel	1	$3.00	$3.00	$3.00	$2.85

Sorry for the delay! It's been a crazy spring!

John


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## pikestalker (Dec 30, 2010)

I may be having a brain freeze here, but is the G in front of everything meen "grey"?


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## Beaverhunter2 (Jan 22, 2005)

"green" or "grease" Skinned but not stretched and dried. gfox gr is "green Gray Fox"

John


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## pikestalker (Dec 30, 2010)

Ok thanks! I had an older friend in high school. He use to drag me along on some of his trapping adventures back in the 80's. It was cold, wet, and alot of fun! Thanks again.


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## frostbite (Dec 22, 2004)

Not very good actually. besides rats and the few otter (not enough otter sold at Jay's for a good accurate average) the averages are way down compared to the big auction houses. 
wow!


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## Fur-minator (Nov 28, 2007)

60.00 high for red fox and $47.43 average sounds pretty good to me.


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## 9 (Jan 17, 2000)

With the averages overall being as low in comparison as they are, I have to give a long "hummmmmm" to that Red fox average and it has nothing to do with the accuracy of the tally figure. Also only 14 pelts sold! Hummmm, interesting, very interesting to me anyway!


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## James Dymond (Feb 23, 2002)

Why not a May auction for the spring beaver trappers. Jim


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## frostbite (Dec 22, 2004)

Furminator--- Although those prices look good against past years prices, talk to a few people that sell at the big auction houses and you will see what I mean. 

Seldom-----Do you care to share your averages on your k-9's verses the Jay's auction? I bet you could post a good example of my point.

Jim---I thought you thinned out the beaver up there years ago


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

James Dymond said:


> Why not a May auction for the spring beaver trappers. Jim


Selling mine at the auction houses this Spring and may throw them all in there much more often! Hate to report it, but my check just arrived from the lot I sent in to NAFA, which was what was split up from the Clare sale. Same beaver pelts, same time frame, indiscriminately divided...$18.75 average more at NAFA. The only difference was I fleshed and stretched them compared to two very experienced trappers that did an exceptional job for the ones sold at Clare. My job wasn' t nearly as well done. I can't understand it. I averaged $15.50 for damaged XL at Clare and $32.20 at NAFA!

Dennis

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## frostbite (Dec 22, 2004)

Furminator- Northern reds averaged over $60.00 and although Mi. red fox typically dont grade Eastern they went for an average of over $63.00 in March. 
I sold beaver, ****, mink and rats at Jays and left alot of money on the table.


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## frostbite (Dec 22, 2004)

Seaarkshooter said:


> Selling mine at the auction houses this Spring and may throw them all in there much more often! Hate to report it, but my check just arrived from the lot I sent in to NAFA, which was what was split up from the Clare sale. Same beaver pelts, same time frame, indiscriminately divided...$18.75 average more at NAFA. The only difference was I fleshed and stretched them compared to two very experienced trappers that did an exceptional job for the ones sold at Clare. My job wasn' t nearly as well done. I can't understand it. I averaged $15.50 for damaged XL at Clare and $32.20 at NAFA!
> 
> Dennis
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


 
Eye popping isn't it. Did you do the math to figure how much you left on the table at Jay's? Good year to be a michigan fur buyer at a Michigan auction hugh? I will say the buyers pay alot more for them at auction than they do otherwise though, but that won't be good enough for me in the future, unless I take my smalls, damaged and blue.


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## 9 (Jan 17, 2000)

frostbite said:


> Furminator--- Although those prices look good against past years prices, talk to a few people that sell at the big auction houses and you will see what I mean.
> 
> Seldom-----Do you care to share your averages on your k-9's verses the Jay's auction? I bet you could post a good example of my point.
> 
> Jim---I thought you thinned out the beaver up there years ago


Coyote- $48.45
Red fox- $46.33 (the handful I sent were all "flat"(pups))
Grey fox- $42.00
****- $32.83
Female mink- $23.33 (no males sent)
Muskrat- $13.30 (82% falls)

3 Top Lots!!!


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

frostbite said:


> Eye popping isn't it. Did you do the math to figure how much you left on the table at Jay's? Good year to be a michigan fur buyer at a Michigan auction hugh?


Yes it was, if I stuck with my average on beaver alone, with me having brought 33 beaver to sell, I left over $580 just in beaver! I'm not sure what I would of lost in rats, **** or mink. I haven't sold those to NAFA ....YET. 

The real shame, because I do believe in the association and always will, is that they lost out on $30 plus in commission to help in battling the antis. Also, with that type of fur check, I would be more likely to donate more to further the association's auction in August. 

My guess is, the association fur buyers will not donate an extra $300, that alone $600, proportionally with what they earned off me to donate to the association this year. The economy still lags and their just middlemen. They probably still have a lot of catching up to do. 

I really am nobody and I don't have any say anywhere, however, if I did, I would be looking at finding as many fur buyers as I can in the state and inviting them also to the auctions. There may not be enough competition it seems. Being seller 91 of 93 parties, I bet I wouldn't be telling the same story if there were ten buyers left at the table when I got there instead of four. My receipts show only two of them bought my beaver.




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## frostbite (Dec 22, 2004)

Sarkshooter, I was seller or lot 79, so I got the same bitter taste in my mouth as you did, watching several buyers walk out of the auction an hour before my fur hit the table. Tough watching $50.00 beaver sell for $33.00 bucks after all the work and care involved in harvest and put up. Live and learn, shame on me for not saying "NO SALE" I supose. 
The local auctions are a nice option for many and I wish no harm to the trapper associations. I also realize the local buyers are trying to make a buck and there are risks involved, but I don't wish to have them blow smoke up mine anymore either. Everybody has there preferences and thats a great option to have. 

Seldom, Thanks for the post on the averages. Thats about what I am seeing from others who sold at the big auction houses. By the way congrats on the top lots. Always nice to see a reward for well put up furs. You know the old saying " you can't get $20.00 out of a $5.00 ****, but you can sure get $5.00 out of a $20.00 **** with a poor put up"


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## Gary A. Schinske (Jul 10, 2006)

Just a couple random thoughts about the state auctions, NAFA and Fur Harvesters. It is an individual decision of where you send your fur. Therefore, I make no judgement where anyone chooses to sell their fur. While the prices seem to be good right now at the big boys, what happens at future sales as well as past sales? All fur may not be sold and once it is at the big boys it stays there. No returns or refunds. No say on if you like the price or not. NAFA is now reporting income of fur sales on any seller that sells $1,000 or more. Will Fur Harvesters follow suit? How long does it take you to get your money from the big boys? The December sale at Jays has become very popular due to the ability of the trapper to get immediate cash for Christmas expenses. In the past has there maybe been some colusion amoung buyers? Maybe, but all buyers at state auctions are not crooks past or present. The state auctions were set up for the benefit of the members of the association. Do they make money for the association? Some but not always. There is rental of the facility, auctioneer expense, sometimes food expense and sometimes a charge to clean the facility after the sale is complete. Except for the autioneer expense the other expenses vary depending on the site. Currently, except for the auctioneer being paid; all other help is strickly volunters. All of the tables used at Jays were purchased by MTPCA and MMIT. The state auctions do not have a pick up fee or drumming charge. Grading of the fur at state auctions is done by the seller and determined by the buyer if grading was correct at time of sale. When shipping to the big boys, you get no advice as to better handle/put up your furs except to see how they graded them. There are pros and cons for state and national fur auctions. It comes down to a personal decision. Take responsibilty and live with it. By the way, I have sold at state auctions, Fur Harvesters and country buyers. I was pleased with all three. Hope you all had a good season and your fur checks helped with your expenses regardless of whee the check came from. See you at convention.


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## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

You win, some times you lose. Tryen to guess the fur market, is like herden cats. this fur is up, that fur is down. then every once in a while, they switch around.

sounds like some of you did well in canada, thats great, hope that continues. I also remember fur sitting for years. and you have nothing to say. I just sent some fur to nafa, just some left overs from late in the year. curious as to how that pans out. sold my green **** to a local buyer, and had a lot better ave than clair. but a lower ave on rats. sad to say I wont be getting that new truck with my fur money. dang, maybe next year.


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

Thank you for the information and insite Gary. I am interested in learning more about the history of state fur sales and auctions, as how their conducted appears to be important to a great number of members: past, present and considering joining. As the obvious pros and cons come to light and to the forefront of discussion within these posts, I would hope that it is seen as an opportunity to view how they can be continuoisly improved in order to benefit the members, seeing as they are the reason they exist. Without tangible constant improvement being seen by its members, organizations will and do suffer through their membership numbers. Idiological administrative stagnation has brought many good and important associations to an unfortuneate and early end. 

As a newbie, I have had the benefit recently of hearing alot of people pass on to me their impressions of these sales as it seems many would like to share their past experiences in order to shorten my learning curve. I feel this puts me in a great position to share what I hear repeatedly. It wasn't until I got the chance to experience first hand what many of them told me is a con that I truly understood the impact it has on the member's outlook of these sales in general. Although there are many commmon complaints, I would like the board to consider the following because it seems to be the most obviously accepted, read ignored, by many. I find that to be disheartening. 

From my understanding, it is not unusual, regardless of how many trappers attend these sales, that nearing the end of the sale some of the buyers drop out by leaving or otherwise stop buying due to lack of interest in the final products being offered, way before the last seller has an opportunity to hit the end tables. It's not my oppinion that there is anything unscrupulous going on with this. Who has? Not me. It's just a *very unfortunate fact*, again, for the very people that these sales exist, the *members*. It may be happening for any number of reasons but it does happen from what I hear at almost every sale. Unfortuneately, for the last 20% of the sellers it does send an *unearned* "you snooze, you lose" message when sale prices drop by 50% or more here.

Analysis as to whether this fact truly exists at each sale is rather simple, although time consuming to prove, just by looking at the average prices of the last 20% of furs sold compared to the averages of the rest of the sale. However, I don't think anyone is willing to deny the price difference fact as the association itself offers opportunity for trappers to get middle lot numbers assigned to them presale when attending the August convention. It's common knowledge that the middle lot number sales seem to be the most stable, if not the highest also. 

One does not have to be a college grad, taking numerous macro and micro economic classes, to know that low volume sales curves are best controlled demand side (buyer) with little or no negative impact to supply side (seller) variables. Infact, increasing the demand almost always increases supply here. In a nutshell, increase the demand (buyers) and the prices will stabilize earlier in the sale, will remain high and will. not affect supply (sellers) getting close to the end of the sale. In time, word can and will get out to other trappers that state auction sales prices are closer to the higher auction house prices now and more trappers will attend, read higher membership numbers here. Its simple economics.

There are very simple, palatable remedies. The status quo needs to change in my opinion. I don't think at nearly every sale the last 20% of membership paying sellers should have to "Take responsibilty and live with it." 

What problems are there in increasing the number of buyers? How is it determined how many buyers attend? The MIDNR website shows a reasonable number of them. Have they all been invited?

I would like to hear what other member's thoughts are. Anyone?


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## ottertrapper (Jan 6, 2006)

The only comment I will make is I have no problem with nafa or fur harvesters reporting money over $1000 as no matter where i sell I pay taxes on it. 

Gary you are exactly right we all have the choice where to sell and that is the great part, there can't IMO be complaints if "you" the seller decides to ship to the big guys, sell to groeny, or the MI sales as it was "your" decision to do so. If I sell to fha and something sits for many sales, it was my decision to ship there, no complaints. It is also my choice where to sell and I personally will never sell to the MI auctions, there are several reasons for it and won't list here.

All buyers, sales have a place in the industry as not everyone wants to ship and wait, not all want to drive several hours to a state auction and spend a whole day there etc...

OT


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## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

Just where are you going to find all of these new buyers?there arnt many around any more.

The only thing that a trapper needs to know about state sales is this, Quality fur gets sold. the buyers are not there to help out. they dont see what they want on the table, there gone. and you cant make them stay, and you cant make them bid. show them fur they can make money on, you couldnt run them off with a gun.

At the time I was going to the fur sales, there was a couple buyers that I would not have let in. flat out **** holes.wouldnt sell them fur at twice the price.


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