# 30 day?



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

all you guys that pissed and moaned over your late split and precious early season days...freeze outs, blah blah....

better put your big boy pants on. drought in pothole region is very real. duck counts did not go well. This liberal season probably gonna change after this year. 

/pulls up his kevlar britches

p.s. side note: gaddies are the new mallard.


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## Bertslash (Sep 3, 2011)

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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> all you guys that pissed and moaned over your late split and precious early season days...freeze outs, blah blah....
> 
> better put your big boy pants on. drought in pothole region is very real. duck counts did not go well. This liberal season probably gonna change after this year.
> 
> ...


As soon as I saw that I thought the same.
I would predict 45/4.
Whatever we’ll make it work. I’m sure they’ll keep geese liberal.


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## Reef runner (Jan 21, 2020)

Not what Any waterfowler wants to hear. But if they set it at 30 days cause of drought, thats just the way it goes. We had it good for a long time. I can remember 30 days seasons with 3 bird limits. Only good thing for me is I have 20 years in now and get 32 vacation days. Suppose I’ll have to hunt everyday of the season and Go after geese more often if the season allows. How do you think it’ll effect the teal season ?


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

I started in the dark days of the point system and a 30 day season. The worst case scenario will still be better than 1976.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Reef runner said:


> Not what Any waterfowler wants to hear. But if they set it at 30 days cause of drought, thats just the way it goes. We had it good for a long time. I can remember 30 days seasons with 3 bird limits. Only good thing for me is I have 20 years in now and get 32 vacation days. Suppose I’ll have to hunt everyday of the season and Go after geese more often if the season allows. How do you think it’ll effect the teal season ?


idunno, i never hunt it. too hot out. usually open when i'm not even in the mood to hunt yet. so the answer is...i don't really care about it enough i guess.

if teal taking big hit with drought they probably suspend until it gets better.


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

no drought in mississippi flyway. no surveys. no need to invoke fear just yet. had enough fear with covid.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

TheHighLIfe said:


> no drought in mississippi flyway. no surveys. no need to invoke fear just yet. had enough fear with covid.


our spring wasn't much good either. we were drought conditions/no burn warnings til last week.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

TheHighLIfe said:


> no drought in mississippi flyway. no surveys. no need to invoke fear just yet. had enough fear with covid.


circled where a large portion of where our birds come from.

and a drought map for ya.


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## Urriah (Jul 26, 2013)

Based on band returns, the vast majority of our birds (over 75% of what we harvest in michigan) are homegrown; Michigan, Ontario, Wisconsin, Minnesota. Only years with heavy, sustained NW winds result in much prairie push for us anymore. However, the rest of the Mississippi flyway is definitely impacted more than us by this drought. I could see a flyway wide reduction come out of it.

Honestly, I've thought a reduction in Michigan was warranted for a while now, so it might not be the worst thing.


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## cvg3 (Nov 27, 2015)

Here you go


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## cvg3 (Nov 27, 2015)




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## GRUNDY (Jun 18, 2005)

If duck needs shortened. Then that's what it takes. No worries/regrets for having to do that. It'll be a bummer though.

Sure is insanely dry in a lot of the U.S. now!


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

75% of all mallards killed in Michigan come from the Great Lakes.
We won’t go right to a 30 day. That’s not the next step in the system. But personally. I don’t care. Give me something around 10/15-11/15 right in the meat of the migration for all species and I’ll be happy.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

I believe 45/5 is the next step down from 60/6. Days mean more than limits.


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## shell waster (Nov 5, 2004)

What percent of duck hunters hunt after opener, my guess is 25%...personally after opener I get out once or twice per week till the rut kicks, then switch gears. So days in field counting goose..10 ish. Shortening season won't do much imo, lowering bag limits will, think some hunters will pack it in out of spite.." I ain't doing all that work for 3-4 ducks"


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

shell waster said:


> What percent of duck hunters hunt after opener, my guess is 25%...personally after opener I get out once or twice per week till the rut kicks, then switch gears. So days in field counting goose..10 ish. Shortening season won't do much imo, lowering bag limits will, think some hunters will pack it in out of spite.." I ain't doing all that work for 3-4 ducks"


Idk. Duck hunters are a different breed. When I was in my late teens early 20's we had a 100 point system. You could shoot one hen and be done for the day. I didnt own a boat or any nice epuipment like jetsleds. We carried stuff on our backs. We still did it.

Maybe hunters are soft and spoiled and I am wrong but I think many still do it. Shoot I walk miles grouse hunting without bagging a bird and still go out the following day to do it again. Dont get me started on pheasant.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Limits don’t mean need as much as days in the field. Most people never ever come close to shooting a limit or multiple limits. However they can shot a couple a day. I’ve had this discussion with many biologists.


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## Blacklabsmatter (Aug 28, 2020)

I sure hope they don’t take away our days in the field. I don’t care that much about a 6 bird limit. 3-4 birds is fine with me. I definitely care about how many opportunities we get to share days in the field with our friends,family, and bird dogs. Hopefully it will make people let the birds finish and really try to shoot all drakes. I never understood the two hen mallard change a few years back. I did notice a lot less hen mallards wasting away in the fields because of the limit change. I’m going out as much as I can regardless of bag limit. How many times have you shot your limit early and stayed out to watch the birds work? It’s not all about big piles of birds.


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## Rockydawg (Dec 8, 2019)

Blacklabsmatter said:


> I sure hope they don’t take away our days in the field. I don’t care that much about a 6 bird limit. 3-4 birds is fine with me. I definitely care about how many opportunities we get to share days in the field with our friends,family, and bird dogs. Hopefully it will make people let the birds finish and really try to shoot all drakes. I never understood the two hen mallard change a few years back. I did notice a lot less hen mallards wasting away in the fields because of the limit change. I’m going out as much as I can regardless of bag limit. How many times have you shot your limit early and stayed out to watch the birds work? It’s not all about big piles of birds.


 In the early 2000s, ducks unlimited had a campaign to shoot drakes only, and our hunting group worked very hard to "save next years brood" by shooting as few hens as possible. At the time, the thought was that shooting a hen took her whole brood out for the next year, so in essence, shooting a hen was like shooting 5-6 ducks. Biologists have since learned that you can't stockpile ducks, and hunter kill is only a small part of overall mortality. The facts are that the more liberal seasons and bag limits on hens in Michigan have actually resulted in less mallards being killed by hunters. There are simply fewer mallards. The reality is the whole limit could be hens, and it wouldn't have the effect that something like this springs drought will have on the mid-continent mallard population. 

Michigans problem (with mallards specifically) seems to be poor brood survival as far as broods that survive summer to make the fall migration. Fact is that biologists have theories, but no real answers yet as to why. Michigan state is launching a study with Dave Luukkonen to determine what's going on. It's going to take years before any conclusions can be reached.


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## Blacklabsmatter (Aug 28, 2020)

I definitely understand that Mother Nature plays a way bigger role in population control than hunter harvest. I don’t need to be a wildlife biologist to have common sense. It’s hard for me to believe that killing hens doesn’t hurt the population though.


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## hmrx (May 4, 2012)

When the Limit on beaver was removed the small beaver ponds went too. In a portion of the north that resulted in lots of fewer places for nesting mallards and woodies. IMO the decline in nesting mallards and local birds started shortly after. Hard to find many beaver ponds anymore. Yes there are isolated ponds but not like 10 to 15 years ago. Some will say my area has ponds but on a larger scale they are reduced. Try to find many along the manistee watershed. Just my 2 cents.





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## duckbuster2 (Aug 14, 2008)

45 day seasons would be fine with me but that won't help much,if there were the trappers like there were in the 50's and 60's that would help a lot.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Rockydawg said:


> In the early 2000s, ducks unlimited had a campaign to shoot drakes only, and our hunting group worked very hard to "save next years brood" by shooting as few hens as possible. At the time, the thought was that shooting a hen took her whole brood out for the next year, so in essence, shooting a hen was like shooting 5-6 ducks. Biologists have since learned that you can't stockpile ducks, and hunter kill is only a small part of overall mortality. The facts are that the more liberal seasons and bag limits on hens in Michigan have actually resulted in less mallards being killed by hunters. There are simply fewer mallards. The reality is the whole limit could be hens, and it wouldn't have the effect that something like this springs drought will have on the mid-continent mallard population.
> 
> Michigans problem (with mallards specifically) seems to be poor brood survival as far as broods that survive summer to make the fall migration. Fact is that biologists have theories, but no real answers yet as to why. Michigan state is launching a study with Dave Luukkonen to determine what's going on. It's going to take years before any conclusions can be reached.


well said and very accurate. can't stockpile birds. nature will always win.


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## Divers Down (Mar 31, 2008)

…all Lemonade to me.
Muskie, Eyes and deer will get more needed attention from me.


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## Bertslash (Sep 3, 2011)

No need to worry about a drought in southern/mid Michigan now Dan!!! 


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

earlier in week.











today.


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## lastflight (Aug 16, 2005)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> all you guys that pissed and moaned over your late split and precious early season days...freeze outs, blah blah....
> 
> better put your big boy pants on. drought in pothole region is very real. duck counts did not go well. This liberal season probably gonna change after this year.
> 
> ...


The drought is real and the production from this year will certainly be down. However, they didn't actually do "the" survey this year, again, due to Covid. ND did their survey, but this is not the data used to make management changes for the entire flyway. We won't have a true count until next spring, assuming the world is back to normal and the FWS can get up to Canada to fly. With the way seasons and bag limits are currently set, that change wouldn't go into effect until 2023.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

The report I got from the farmers in the area I hunted last year in ND was:

“The said they are doing okay in ***>|!|€{€€{{€€{€***. Duck number's good and phesant way up.”


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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

craigrh13 said:


> The report I got from the farmers in the area I hunted last year in ND was:
> 
> “The said they are doing okay in _>|!|€{€€{{€€{€_. Duck number's good and phesant way up.”


Thanks that info and it's source means a lot more to me than estimates....


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

craigrh13 said:


> The report I got from the farmers in the area I hunted last year in ND was:
> 
> “The said they are doing okay in _>|!|€{€€{{€€{€_. Duck number's good and phesant way up.”


"your" contacts in ND eh? thats funny because mine aren't ok with the drought there and said spring hatch wasn't very good. maybe i should go find some new contacts.


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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> "your" contacts in ND eh? thats funny because mine aren't ok with the drought there and said spring hatch wasn't very good. maybe i should go find some new contacts.


Hmmm. Keep us posted on what your guys are saying too.


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## Mr. 16 gauge (Jan 26, 2000)

I hunted ducks back in the days of the point system, when pintails and scaup were plentiful and worth 10 points each. I hunted in the late 80's/early 90s when the season was 30 days/3 ducks. I hunted when there were closures on various species (notably redheads and canvasbacks), so you had to know your duck ID. If the season is shortened to 3 ducks and 30 days, I'll still be out there. If they limited it to 10 days and 1 duck/day, I think I would still be out there (because I'm a pretty poor bow hunter......and besides, the upland hunting in my area is nil anymore).
One thing I did notice when the season when from 30 days/3 ducks to 60 days/6 ducks: There were (are?) a lot of "Johnny -come-lately" types that came pretty much just so they could kill a pile of something...........I've seen an increase in skybusting, no attempt made to retrieve shot birds, overlimits, etc, While I would like as much opportunity to hunt as possible, I can't help but wonder if a shorter season and fewer birds would cause some of these individuals to move on to other persuasions...................


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> "your" contacts in ND eh? thats funny because mine aren't ok with the drought there and said spring hatch wasn't very good. maybe i should go find some new contacts.


Look where the drought has hit hardest in NoDak. It’s not around that area. As you may or may not know the water last year was insanely deep in that area. It was odd considering all of the people talking about no water last year….


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## Swamp Boss (Mar 14, 2003)

less than 10 years ago sea walls were caving in and residents were mowing vegetation on their extended beaches. Nature has a plan that doesn't consider or respect hunters. Either way, I will be watching as many sunrises as possible ...regardless of season length.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

craigrh13 said:


> Look where the drought has hit hardest in NoDak. It’s not around that area. As you may or may not know the water last year was insanely deep in that area. It was odd considering all of the people talking about no water last year….


i have been out there in high water...and following year the place was totally bone dry and they were burning cattails as far you could see. it will disappear in 12mo like nothing. hunting was better in the dry years there tho...or when the water started coming up and spilling into the bean fields...probably never see that again....was amazing hunting water holes facing out into flooded beans...only had that situation 1 year out of 15.


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## Lucky Dog (Jul 4, 2004)

craigrh13 said:


> The report I got from the farmers in the area I hunted last year in ND was:
> 
> “The said they are doing okay in _>|!|€{€€{{€€{€_. Duck number's good and phesant way up.”


My buddy owns a section in ND, about 350 acres of it is water. He said he has never seen so many mallard broods in his 20 plus years of owning the place. 
His crops are wilting from the drought, but at least on his little world Ducks are doing well.


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## Cork Dust (Nov 26, 2012)

It will be interesting to see the effects of no US hunters in Canada through the early part of our domestic season.


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## Cork Dust (Nov 26, 2012)

Lucky Dog, you make an interesting point: haying wasn't an issue regarding early season mortaity on nest and broods. Also, basically zero snow enabled early nesters to get going much earlier... I have a Water Moccasin for my layout blind but it is a pain to use because the blind bootie gets a good coat of NoDak gumbo on it and weighs a ton. Washing that stuff off at a car wash makes you NO friends, too.


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## adam bomb (Feb 27, 2006)

I’m just going to grab my gun, decoys and dog and make the best of it no matter what length of season or bag limit gets sent down. I like to knock the heck outta them as much as anyone. But all I really need is days afield with one bird doing it right and a good retrieve from old girl. 


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## Urriah (Jul 26, 2013)

Take'm said:


> In my opinion, there is nothing better than sticking the day out to shoot a pile of just greenheads and no hens.


You'd be the poster child for why it can work. Most hardcore duck hunters (the ones whose totals would actually add up to something long term) would rather shoot drakes of just about any species. It's just like buck hunting vs doe hunting; no one's posting a glory pile picture of three dead hens.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Urriah said:


> You'd be the poster child for why it can work. Most hardcore duck hunters (the ones whose totals would actually add up to something long term) would rather shoot drakes of just about any species. It's just like buck hunting vs doe hunting; no one's posting a glory pile picture of three dead hens.


must not have seen many of my pics? lmao


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## lastflight (Aug 16, 2005)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> betting we will see a 45/6/4/1 season next year. will bookmark this thread to revisit next summer.





lastflight said:


> I'll take that bet, 60/6.
> 
> I'm not bookmarking, so let me know what I win.





Shiawassee_Kid said:


> yer on, lol


@Shiawassee_Kid Now that we have the official word of the 60/6, when do I show up to claim my prize of a fully guided Shiawassee hunt??


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

lastflight said:


> @Shiawassee_Kid Now that we have the official word of the 60/6, when do I show up to claim my prize of a fully guided Shiawassee hunt??


lets make it happen.


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## lastflight (Aug 16, 2005)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> lets make it happen.


It's on!! Let's stay in touch when season gets going, I am pretty flexible to hunt during the week.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

lastflight said:


> It's on!! Let's stay in touch when season gets going, I am pretty flexible to hunt during the week.


me too.  hit me up once season gets rolling we'll do some hunts.


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