# XTP Bullets. Mag or Regular for ML deer hunting?



## Barry

Reading the Shockwave Thread has convinced me to try other bullets for improved expansion on deer with my TC Omega. I suspect after reading the post, that others are thinking the same thing. I plan to experiment with the Hornady XTP as my next alternative. 

I have done some research on the Hornady XTP and most recommendations seem to lean toward the regular XTP because it expands better at ML velocities. One writer strongly suggested the 300 over the 240 gr. but I don't find the 300 available except if I buy the bullets in bulk (pistol). 

Curious if anyone has used this bullet? Any preference between mag or regular XTP? 300 or 240gr.?


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## Swamp Monster

The 300 XTP mags should be readily available in bulk with sabots...20 or 30 count packs anyway. I've never had a problem finding them. I use the 300 grain .45 caliber XTP mags in my Rem 700 inline over 100 grains of standard pyrodex. Accuracy and on game performance were exceptional. Personally I like heavier bullets in muzzleloaders so the little 240's never interested me. In my Encore, I use the Barnes TMZ in 290 grains over 120 grains of BH209. You will simply not find a better bullet than the Barnes for muzzleloading, period. They are not cheap, but their performance makes them worth every penny. I never have to worry if my bullet will perform, cause it will, every time.


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## dlbaldwin01

Barry said:


> Reading the Shockwave Thread has convinced me to try other bullets for improved expansion on deer with my TC Omega. I suspect after reading the post, that others are thinking the same thing. I plan to experiment with the Hornady XTP as my next alternative.
> 
> I have done some research on the Hornady XTP and most recommendations seem to lean toward the regular XTP because it expands better at ML velocities. One writer strongly suggested the 300 over the 240 gr. but I don't find the 300 available except if I buy the bullets in bulk (pistol).
> 
> Curious if anyone has used this bullet? Any preference between mag or regular XTP? 300 or 240gr.?


 
I made the switch to the XTP from shockwaves as well. The 240's are what they had at gander when I went so that is what went with. I have been shooting the 240gr regulars and they don't shoot quite as tight of a group as the shockwaves, but they are still pretty damn good. Couple of things I have noticed since the switch is that the xtp's load a little harder after a couple of shots even with swabbing after each shot. As well as my first shot after a complete cleaning seems to "fly" a little. It seems to throw the first shot around an inch or two right or left. After the first shot it shoots great groups and no flyers after that.


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## Pier Pressure

I've never shot the 240 gr. but I've had great success with the 250 gr. and 300 gr. XTPs with 80-100 grains of Triple7 from my Knight MK-85.

Several years ago while using a 250 grain XTP I shot a doe at roughly 125 yards on a steep quartering toward angle smashing the left shoulder and dropping her where she stood. When I butchered her I found that the lead and jacket had separated. Completely understandable considering how much bone it destroyed on impact. Between the 250 and 300 grain XTPs I had better success on the range and in the field with the 300s.

If you're looking for total expansion I'll have to agree with Swamp Monster and second the Barnes TMZ in 290 grain. Here's what they look like after going through a rib cage. I was quite impressed.


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## ENCORE

THANK YOU FOR POSTING THAT PICTURE!!!
I absolutely love it when pictures of retreived bullets are posted. YOU CAN'T BEAT A BARNES FOR PERFORMANCE !

A buddy shoots the XTP's and I've seen him knock the snot right out of deer at ranges further than 100, many times. He either buys them at wally or Dunhams. Not sure which. Shoot the heavier bullet.
Boy, they can sure make a wollop when they strike


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## redbug9

I have seen 240, 250, and 300 gr XTP's packaged with sabots. The 250's are HP/XTP's, regular.

I have never seen 300 gr HP/XTP's packaged with sabots.

I shoot the 300 gr HP/XTP over 90 gr of Blackhorn 209 and an MMP HP24 sabot out of my Knight. I prefer a heavier bullet that will always open at muzzleloader velocities.

Velocity vs Performance information is available for all XTP bullets.


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## redbug9

I almost forgot. The HP/XTP bullets, both the 250 and 300, will tear up a deer. I have shot them with both.


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## langkg

I'll second the 300 grain XTP's and 100 grains of Pyrodex. I shoot a .50 cal Rem 700ML and like the 300 grain XTP which comes as a .44 cal bullet with the green colored sabot. I learned the hard way about Power Belts, switched to the Hornady and have never looked back. I've killed plenty of deer with load but I tend to be a short range hunter with most shots 60 yards or less.


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## Grouse Hunter

Swamp Monster said:


> You will simply not find a better bullet than the Barnes for muzzleloading, period. They are not cheap, but their performance makes them worth every penny. I never have to worry if my bullet will perform, cause it will, every time.



Exactly!


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## Swamp Monster

langkg said:


> I'll second the 300 grain XTP's and 100 grains of Pyrodex. I shoot a .50 cal Rem 700ML and like the 300 grain XTP which comes as a .44 cal bullet with the green colored sabot. .


Mine likes the .45 caliber 300 grain XTP mag with the black sabots. Never have tried the .44 (.429) versions.


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## Swamp Monster

ENCORE said:


> THANK YOU FOR POSTING THAT PICTURE!!!
> I absolutely love it when pictures of retreived bullets are posted. YOU CAN'T BEAT A BARNES FOR PERFORMANCE !



I try, but I cannot recover the bullet! Even on severe angle shots I get complete pass thru's.


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## whitmo28

I shoot the 300gr XTP with 100 grains of triple 7 and an MMP HP24 sabot out of my TC Omega. Very accurate so far and have no complaints...shot my buck this year with it and my buddy requested that I keep the heart for him...needless to say there was not much left to keep...he was with me when I gutted it and he said forget it!:lol:

I only sighted it in for up to 100 yards and it was money.


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## Barry

Swampmonster and Pier Pressure make a compelling case for the Barnes 290gr.TMZ. Pier Pressure's pic clearly resolves any question about expansion. I understand the TC barrels to be tighter bullet fit than most. Does anyone have issues with loading the Barnes TMZ into their TC barrels (I have an Omega)? Also, will the TMZ pass through a deer more than not? 

btw, I sent an email to Hornandy asking about the difference between the XTP Mag and XTP Regular bullet. The response this morning from Hornady Technical Staff is: "The mag series is a thicker jacket and will withstand higher pressures and velocities, I suggest using the mag series in the muzzle loader. thanks"

I suspect that the Hornady "Mag" ML recommendation may only consider accuracy and and not bullet expansion on deer sized game. If accuracy was my only concern, I would stay with Shockwaves because they are dead on. 

So I still don't think I have the answer to XTP Mag vs. Non-Mags for Muzzle loader deer hunting. But if the Barnes TMZ work well with my gun, the Mag question becomes irrelevant to me anyway

Thanks everyone. I appreciate all the good info being shared here. I was a little worried that my thread was too narrow and technical for the forum but that is obviously not true. This is a good education for all of us and hopefully will result in better recovery of ML shot deer Maybe the ML manufacturers will pick up on some of this discussion and start marketing ML bullets for hunting and not just accuracy at the target range.


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## Steve

The manual for my CVA states


> "CVA does not recommend the use of non-CVA approved projectiles for
> CVA rifles. This is due to the fact that CVA has no control over projectile
> bullet molds or saboted bullets sold and marketed by other manufacturers.
> Some projectiles produced by other manufacturers, especially saboted
> bullets, can produce high barrel pressures creating unsafe conditions. If
> you have questions concerning approved projectiles, contact the CVA customer
> service department"


Do all muzzies have such a disclaimer in their manuals? If not, it kind of makes me not want to try sabots at all.


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## Barry

Steve said:


> Do all muzzies have such a disclaimer in their manuals? If not, it kind of makes me not want to try sabots at all.


It's all about liability.... My TC has the same disclaimer. No different than MS not allowing gun sales on the forum. None of us are going to stop buying and selling guns because of it.


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## Swamp Monster

Steve said:


> The manual for my CVA states
> 
> Do all muzzies have such a disclaimer in their manuals? If not, it kind of makes me not want to try sabots at all.


No, my Remington does not, nor does my T/C. CVA wants you to use thier branded bullets......plus their lawyers and liability insurance lawyers probably wanted that language put in the manual to help their legal case in the event of a gun damage/personal injury. In years past, CVA's barrel quality was questionable at best and add to that the advent of "magnum" powder charges and you can see the potential for problems. Not knocking CVA, but not too long agao, the barrels they used were never proof tested to withstand the pressures generated today. This is not so much the case today however. Basically its CVA trying to cover their butts but I wouldn't be to concerned. I know several CVA owners that shoot sabots with no problems.


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## Swamp Monster

Barry said:


> It's all about liability.... My TC has the same disclaimer. No different than MS not allowing gun sales on the forum. None of us are going to stop buying and selling guns because of it.


I didn't think my Encore had that disclaimer but maybe they do? I do know that they only recommend T/C products however. Considering T/C contracts out many of their products, I find it kind of funny. But yeah, it's a lawyer thing.


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## Barry

Pier Pressure said:


> If you're looking for total expansion I'll have to agree with Swamp Monster and second the Barnes TMZ in 290 grain. Here's what they look like after going through a rib cage. I was quite impressed.


WOW. Talk about great expansion. Wouldn't want to be that deer:yikes: 

I did some checking on Barnes website about the Spitfire TMZ and found the T-EZ, a new version of the TMZ that Barnes came out with for tight barrels like the Thompson Centers. Since I have the TC Omega, this might work better in my barrel.


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## ENCORE

Here's a couple pictures, although not such a close up, of the Barnes Expander bullets.
Both of these bullets were recoverd after passing through the ribs of a couple does.


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## Quack Addict

Swamp Monster said:


> CVA wants you to use thier branded bullets......plus their lawyers and liability insurance lawyers probably wanted that language put in the manual to help their legal case in the event of a gun damage/personal injury.




I seriously doubt there is anything significantly different between a CVA sabot and an 'aftermarket' sleeve. So long as bearing surface of the sabot is similar, coefficient of friction is similar and projectile diameter / weight are similar, I can't see where a non-CVA sabot & projectile would generate higher chamber pressure.

On the other hand, if CVA engineers their firearms that close to the ragged edge that they are worried about splitting hairs on what kind of .50 muzzleloader projectile you should load into their .50 muzzleloader because their product may (admittedly) become unsafe... well, you do the math.

I guess one could also argue the converse - if the CVA sabots/projectiles are that far different from everything out there, maybe they are 'unfit' for use in everything but a CVA firearm...


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