# Small Boats on Big Water



## textox (Jan 30, 2020)

Seeing several posts through out fishing forums where Fishermen that have small boats think because they don't venture far from shore that they are completely safe. I can vividly remember the tragic event that happened in 1967 near Empire when 7 Coho fishermen drowned when an unexpected storm created a catastrophic event for over 1000 boats and their
occupants on that September day. Many of those victims were within 100' of shore.How small of a boat is too small?


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Nine miles out in Saginaw Bay in my 14' with my six year old crewing.

Lake Michigan, Huron, and, Superior all have claimed 600'+ ships. Were those too small?


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## cuda man (Mar 6, 2008)

Common sense


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

There is *nothing* that replaces a high sense of awareness for people operating boats. From kayaks, to canoes, to sailboats, to motorized fishing boats, to Iron Ore Freighters. Ya know that cruise ship that ran aground @ Italy some years ago? The idiot Captain thought it would be entertaining to run too close to shore to give the Cruisers a better view. Ya know that freighter that has been blocking the Suez Canal for a week or so? Operator error. Boat operators need to pay attention to the water, and the shore, and the wind, and the waves, and every other boat around them, and their passengers, and flotsam and jetsam. After a decade or so, it becomes second-nature. Fog or rain can change everything in a matter of minutes. 

People can get into a lot of trouble with big safe boats. There was a tragic accident on the Detroit River last year, where a fairly experienced Boater made a mistake that caused his (fairly large) boat to flip at-speed. He, and a passenger were killed, and others had to be rescued. 

Experience comes from living through situations that could have turned out very badly. An experience Boater (like FBD) can take their 14 foot boat far offshore safely, when the conditions are right for it. Notice the calm seas, and his daughter in a swimsuit wearing her vest? That is how an experience boater safely runs miles offshore in a 14 foot boat. I'm willing to bet he wouldn't have made that same run in 3 foot waves, in March, although that boat will handle 3 foot waves adequately. Small boats on big water = knowing very well approximately how long it will take to get your boat back to where you launched, from wherever you are, and how to get there. Sometimes the most direct route is not the best route in a small boat, or any boat.


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## deagansdad1 (Jan 27, 2021)

Ya what dude said 

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## textox (Jan 30, 2020)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> View attachment 759784
> 
> 
> Nine miles out in Saginaw Bay in my 14' with my six year old crewing.
> ...





Far Beyond Driven said:


> View attachment 759784
> 
> 
> Nine miles out in Saginaw Bay in my 14' with my six year old crewing.
> ...


Not looking for confrontation, only opinions.I have had 14' boats with a wide beam that i felt safe in on lake Huron under the right conditions and was aboard a 22' that was a nail biter on Lk Erie when a storm event unexpectedly happened..


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Well, there was this time in March 2005 when it took six hours to get to Milwaukee, it was 12 degrees, and there were 4-6' rollers and we said eff it, we've come this far, we're going out. 

Ended up towing in a boat where at times we'd get yanked backwards when a wave hit them, and often we could not even see them just a rope cutting through a swell. Anything above idle and we cavitated.

We went home that night. The next morning two boats fished in dead calm conditions and had 35 browns by 10 am.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Worst trip I ever had was on a 31' Well craft spotting it from Manistee to Saugatuck, on one engine, head long into a 30 mph south wind. Ten hours at the helm, no breaks, throttling up a wave and then backing off, up, then down, up, then down, with the wheel skewed over due to the power imbalance. Then it got dark and it was pure Zen as you couldn't see the waves any more.


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## textox (Jan 30, 2020)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> Worst trip I ever had was on a 31' Well craft spotting it from Manistee to Saugatuck, on one engine, head long into a 30 mph south wind. Ten hours at the helm, no breaks, throttling up a wave and then backing off, up, then down, up, then down, with the wheel skewed over due to the power imbalance. Then it got dark and it was pure Zen as you couldn't see the waves any more.


I would feel some what safer on a 31' vessel than on my present 16&1/2 ' Great Lakes Special Sea Nymph under those conditions!


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## Baybum (Jan 9, 2008)

No water big or small is ever completely safe in any size boat.

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## georgeb (Sep 17, 2008)

After sail yacht racing in 35 to 40 foot boats on lake Michigan for over 30 years I have seen it all. When most fishing boat are heading for port the blo-boat racers are heading out for fun. I have been in 15' waves, had many water spouts around us and have been in many other interesting weather conditions. I have raced end to end and side to side of the lake many times. Any one of thoe races or deliveries I was on could have gone bad but we were prepared for bad things with the safety gear on board and the knowledge of how to use it if required.

I chose my 16' aluminum boat setup for salmon fishing because I do not want to be out in anything rough any more. My need for adventure racing is over and I Iike a nice flat lake to spend time on fishing now.

Preparation and caution are key to safe boating no matter the size of the boat. Common sense is required at all times also. Weather forecasts, buoy reports for wind and wave conditions are the minimum for pre trip information. Keeping track of cloud formations and wind changes is never a bad thing. Noticing if a second wave direction shows up can predict changes are coming and from where. There are many other items that are good to keep track of also.

letting someone on shore know where you are what you are doing and when you will be in are a requirement. I also made a pact with my wife that I would let her know when i got to port no matter what time of day or night and in the pre cell phone days that was tough. Now it is so much easier to keep in touch with a cell phone


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## John Hine (Mar 31, 2019)

Watch the weather, be prepared & go have fun! I’ve been on saginaw bay in my 14 footer in 3 foot rollers where it was fishable without concern & ive been on western Lake Superior in a 37 footer in 5’ waves that got pretty darn scary. Good safety gear & a good “what if” plan is a must too!


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## Lund Explorer (Jan 23, 2011)

textox said:


> Seeing several posts through out fishing forums where Fishermen that have small boats think because they don't venture far from shore that they are completely safe. I can vividly remember the tragic event that happened in 1967 near Empire when 7 Coho fishermen drowned when an unexpected storm created a catastrophic event for over 1000 boats and their
> occupants on that September day. Many of those victims were within 100' of shore.How small of a boat is too small?


As I remember that day, most of the fishermen that drown, and many boats that were destroyed met their fate on the shoreline. Guys would run out of fuel, the boats would wash up on shore, and the next wave would fill up the boat and then drag it back out.

My father decided to avoid the crowds that day and we went out of Portage Lake (Onekama) and it was a wild slow ride back to get through the breakwalls. We would go down between two swells and all you could see was water. We would climb the next wave and there were boats all around us. That was in a 18' wooden boat, and I can't remember the size of the motor. I was sworn to secrecy when we got home the next day for fear I would never get to go again if I told the whole story to my mother.


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## textox (Jan 30, 2020)

Lund Explorer said:


> As I remember that day, most of the fishermen that drown, and many boats that were destroyed met their fate on the shoreline. Guys would run out of fuel, the boats would wash up on shore, and the next wave would fill up the boat and then drag it back out.
> 
> My father decided to avoid the crowds that day and we went out of Portage Lake (Onekama) and it was a wild slow ride back to get through the breakwalls. We would go down between two swells and all you could see was water. We would climb the next wave and there were boats all around us. That was in a 18' wooden boat, and I can't remember the size of the motor. I was sworn to secrecy when we got home the next day for fear I would never get to go again if I told the whole story to my mother.


Many unforeseen things can happen while on the water,one can only prepare for what they perceive might happen.
One of the reasons i no longer fish from my boat alone.Have had too many near collisions while anchored at night
whipping for walleyes...


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Ran across Lake Macatawa in the dark. Putting the boat on the trailer and find a yellow bird hanging off the bow rail. A minute later a guy in a camo John boat screams up saying I almost hit him while he was walleye trolling just outside the no wake zone.

I didn't see your lights.

I'm not running any. It's your fault for going fast in the dark. You need to slow down.

Idiot.

Only later did I think if that line missed the bow rail it would have slipped over the windshield and caught my neck.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

How many of those people up at Platte had zero experience on the lake? There was no sport fishery and very little recreational boating before the 70's. The lakes were for transport and up until the 50's commercial fishing.

One of the first registered charter boats in the 70's was a 22' and he stood out from the fleet as the biggest boat out there by far.


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

My Dad went up there to fish that day and said no way. We spent a lot of time on Lake Superior when I was a kid. He looked at the lake and said that hell was about to break loose and he headed home.


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## textox (Jan 30, 2020)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> How many of those people up at Platte had zero experience on the lake? There was no sport fishery and very little recreational boating before the 70's. The lakes were for transport and up until the 50's commercial fishing.
> 
> One of the first registered charter boats in the 70's was a 22' and he stood out from the fleet as the biggest boat out there by far.


Mostly all of them, except for a few locals that knew better and many didn't even have life jackets. Small craft warning was in effect but many had driven a long way to fish and launched any way...


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## loomis82 (Nov 4, 2014)

This boat is just about the right size!


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## outdoorsman48049 (Jan 27, 2011)

figured i d chime in, i learned a very good lesson a few years ago.
the captain is the captain.what i mean, is he/she knows their boat its capabilities, etc etc, they've spent time on it. I was sailing a long time ago on lake erie, near moullie.theres a little island not far from shore.We were having a great time, on the island, and decided to push off, sail a bit.I look to the west, huge squall line. i said to my passengers."well what do you guys want to do, it's going to get bad here for a bit"....LETS HEAD FOR THE MARINA....ok....so we headed that way, we got a 1/4 mile, and No wind, calm before the storm and then it hit hard, we were flyingggggggg, it was a catamaran...i knew, we should have went to the island and waited it out....it could have been bad, we made it but, the other guys gf was holding my gf's arm, and you could see her hand print, they were scared to death.....i learned a lesson that day....my boat, my decision.Don't like it........tough..........swim.


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## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

BumpRacerX said:


> Made that run from Rogers to Swan and back many of times as a kid. Pre GPS era. Good times.
> 
> My worst Calcite story involved almost hitting a freighter. Broad side. During daylight.
> 
> ...


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## textox (Jan 30, 2020)

Seam's many have had some harrowing experiences on big water...


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

Lake Superior 60 years ago. Two hours to go about five miles. The old commercial fishermen said God was at the helm.


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## textox (Jan 30, 2020)

Have a friend that launched from Marquette to fish near Stannard rock in a 24fter. Gearbox locked up coming in late on
6 to 8 footers blowing from the SE. 10 hp Honda kicker would only stay running while pumping primer bulb. 4 hrs overdue
on planned return they beached the boat 10 miles north of the harbor,went back the next day and went down shoreline
still pumping primer bulb.What we do for fish,WHY?


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

The big lakes will kill you in a hurry.


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## georgeb (Sep 17, 2008)

Martin Looker said:


> The big lakes will kill you in a hurry.


Rouge waves can show up seemingly out of nowhere. All they require is 2 separate wave sets to collide and 2' rollers can form a sharp peak wave that can flip a small boat easily. I watched a 32' sport racer blo-boat get picked up, turned on her side, the keel snapped off and flipped over in about 10 seconds. That happened off Chicago a few years ago when we were in the pre-start for a blo-boat race. There were 6' rollers from a storm in the N. end of the lake along with 2- 4' breakers from the E from an overnight storm that was clearing that morning. Our wind instrument was reading under 5 Knots from everywhere which added to the misery of the wave sets. Without sufficient wind for the blo-boat to sail, we were just big bobbers on the pond. When some of the south bound waves collided with the west bound waves we were seeing wave peaks that would wash our decks easily and I was on a 40' boat, The wave that took out the the Python 32 happened and was gone in seconds. The crew was picked up by other boats and all were safe but shaken up pretty good. After that incident they called off the racing for the morning and we returned to port. I heard many stories of racers that never got sea-sick before that encounter loosing their breakfast overboard that morning.

Respect the lakes and always know you are not in charge.


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## textox (Jan 30, 2020)

georgeb said:


> Rouge waves can show up seemingly out of nowhere. All they require is 2 separate wave sets to collide and 2' rollers can form a sharp peak wave that can flip a small boat easily. I watched a 32' sport racer blo-boat get picked up, turned on her side, the keel snapped off and flipped over in about 10 seconds. That happened off Chicago a few years ago when we were in the pre-start for a blo-boat race. There were 6' rollers from a storm in the N. end of the lake along with 2- 4' breakers from the E from an overnight storm that was clearing that morning. Our wind instrument was reading under 5 Knots from everywhere which added to the misery of the wave sets. Without sufficient wind for the blo-boat to sail, we were just big bobbers on the pond. When some of the south bound waves collided with the west bound waves we were seeing wave peaks that would wash our decks easily and I was on a 40' boat, The wave that took out the the Python 32 happened and was gone in seconds. The crew was picked up by other boats and all were safe but shaken up pretty good. After that incident they called off the racing for the morning and we returned to port. I heard many stories of racers that never got sea-sick before that encounter loosing their breakfast overboard that morning.
> 
> Respect the lakes and always know you are not in charge.


The last sentence is all telling George,but some don't abide by it!!


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

Martin Looker said:


> Lake Superior 60 years ago. Two hours to go about five miles. The old commercial fishermen said God was at the helm.


Many years ago fishing the Huron Islands at night in October on the full moon, the peak of the tubilee spawn, and huge L Superior pike up on the reefs having a feast. I was out there with a buddy and we were having the third night of fishing dreams are made of. Then I noticed whisps of clouds moving across the moon. Then the wind started switching, rapidly clocking from SE to NE and rising from barely a breeze to 3-5 mph. We were in a 17.5' boat and decided that the best course of action was to skedaddle before the wind got any worse, and the waves followed.
Mind you, this was in the pre GPS days when we navigated with a chart , a compass, a "speedometer" and a stopwatch, and any available LORAN C reciever was too damn big for that little boat. In the blackness that was then the Lake Superior shore. By the time we got the 13 miles back to Skanee we had a 4' following sea, and the wind was steady in the upper tens, gusting into the upper 20's (rollers thank God, not those steep walls of water like St Clair or Erie make). The next morning the lake was ANGRY. steep 6-10' waves well into Huron Bay. We never would have survived had we been foolish enough to not head in. No Cells, no GPS, Weren't the old days not so great? LOL


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## georgeb (Sep 17, 2008)

*Meteotsunami on lake mi*


The link below is to a non wind caused wave that will easily swamp a small boat and has caused some deaths. Science is finally beginning to understand this kind of stuff and is hoping to be able to predict when it can happen.









Google News


Comprehensive up-to-date news coverage, aggregated from sources all over the world by Google News.




news.google.com


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

I feel safer out on the lake than I do on my morning commutes.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

georgeb said:


> Rouge waves can show up seemingly out of nowhere. All they require is 2 separate wave sets to collide and 2' rollers can form a sharp peak wave that can flip a small boat easily. I watched a 32' sport racer blo-boat get picked up, turned on her side, the keel snapped off and flipped over in about 10 seconds. That happened off Chicago a few years ago when we were in the pre-start for a blo-boat race. There were 6' rollers from a storm in the N. end of the lake along with 2- 4' breakers from the E from an overnight storm that was clearing that morning. Our wind instrument was reading under 5 Knots from everywhere which added to the misery of the wave sets. Without sufficient wind for the blo-boat to sail, we were just big bobbers on the pond. When some of the south bound waves collided with the west bound waves we were seeing wave peaks that would wash our decks easily and I was on a 40' boat, The wave that took out the the Python 32 happened and was gone in seconds. The crew was picked up by other boats and all were safe but shaken up pretty good. After that incident they called off the racing for the morning and we returned to port. I heard many stories of racers that never got sea-sick before that encounter loosing their breakfast overboard that morning.
> 
> Respect the lakes and always know you are not in charge.


I fished out of Frankfort with a buddy quite a few Labor Day weekends ago. We went out in the morning and it was breezy, but doable. He has a 26ft boat with a 10ft beam, plenty stable almost always. We got out to the inlet and it was bumpy but not terrible. We headed north a ways to fish our way back, it got a little windier after we got set up. It wasn't long and the radio chatter started up about the high seas and we were about half way back. We were on fire and didn't pay much mind as we were a lot closer than some of the guys talking over the radio. After a wave broke over the stern we decided that was enough and pulled lines and headed for the marina. Once we got back to the inlet it was scary, just like you said. It looked like two story houses placed randomly in a field. Just random peaks all over. I asked my buddy if he has ever seen it this bad and he said "Yeah, from the other side when I turn around and head back to the slip!". He powered through with relative ease but he commented on the fact that he never wanted to try again. 

What I couldn't understand was the morons in little boats bobbing around that inlet that flat out didn't give a schitt we were coming through. He claimed it was normal but this time he wasn't able to steer around the suicidal maniacs. Luckily we didn't hit anyone, but there were enough close calls that I stopped caring. 

It is pretty neat fighting a King that is above your head in a wave and you can see it darting back and forth. 

The other thing I will say is Lake Michigan was considerably more comfortable in those seas than Lake Huron. The depth allows the frequency of the waves to be wayyy more friendly in that regard. Those were by far the biggest swells I have been in and it was a lot less scary then some 6fts on Huron.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

If you wanna see some crazy waves at an inlet search Haulover Inlet on youtube. It is hours of good fun. And a lot can be learned by someone not used to how to deal with that sort of thing.


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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

jiggin is livin said:


> If you wanna see some crazy waves at an inlet search Haulover Inlet on youtube. It is hours of good fun. And a lot can be learned by someone not used to how to deal with that sort of thing.


I watch those clips all the time I love the NorTech guys that just power over the crests at 50mph...


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## Ltucc00 (Nov 4, 2019)

Use your head. What's the priority - catching fish or getting back alive?
16' Tracker walk thru windshield 60hp. As Captain, the Rule on my boat is if ANYBODY wants to go home then we go back to dock and go tomorrow.
Went out of St Joe to Manistee area bout 65 times last year. Too windy? Approx 5 times turned around at lighthouse and went back. Another 15 times fished less than an hour. Another 10-15 was sick as hell from seasick. Caught in one nasty storm coming from east and scared to death.
Build layers off safety. Now keep two phones charged. Plus new bigger compass. Plus new GPS Garmin graph. Plus new Marine Radio - handheld in case both batteries dead. Top off gas and charge batteries after every trip. Caught fish all spring and summer. Wife caught 18# King and I got a 23# in 2020. Had a blast and already been out 8 times this year (too early) from New Buffalo to Port Sheldon.
Whenever she wants to go in, we just go. Now she just asked me if we can fish South Haven this Saturday. Oh baby!



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## charminultra (Feb 8, 2017)

Just watched something on pbs called the big six, it was about the six biggest shipwrecks in the Great Lakes. Most of them were attributed to the boats being too long in ratio to hull depth which caused them to have high stresses in the mid section and break in two parts in rough water. Also the materials and joining methods used created brittle joints that had insufficient toughness and fatigue strength for a cyclically loaded structure like a boat. These poor hull designs and construction methods made the big boats unsafe and unfit for the conditions in which they were supposed to operate in.
These things are now avoided with better engineering skills and materials and joining methods that produce boats with higher fatigue limits. Also one of the wrecks was caused by a collision with another boat due to retarded captain and fog.


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## charminultra (Feb 8, 2017)

PBS has a show on right now about a South Korean ferry that went dow in 2014. Apparently they turned too fast and the thing just flipped over and sank. Not sure why they’re showing so many ship wreak shoes right now


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## charminultra (Feb 8, 2017)

It looks like a huge ship too, terrible luck or just a combo of poor hull design and bad maneuvering. The boats name was the Sewol.


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## jbtc (May 7, 2020)

We boat camped for 20 years all over the Great Lakes, but the trip I remember best was our run from Detroit to Cedar Point with an overnight stay at Put-in-bay.
Beautiful trip to the Island, great nights stay, nice tour of the Island. Next morning the wind had shifted out of the NE, left the Island and as soon as we got out of it's leeward side we were fighting 4-5'. There were two of us, both with young kids, 22' SeaRay and 23' Slickcraft, Sun was out, water was in the 70 degree range but a strong NE wind.
Moved the wife and kids back to the back of the boat and tried to act as if this was no big deal. 
At one point after misjudging the wave and the bow of the boat free feel about 5' I told the wife I"m running here up on shore and we'll collect insurance, she said we can't leave our friend out here alone and to keep going.
We finally pulled into Cedar Point and had people watching us from the docks, asked were we came from and when we said Put-in-Bay, the were amazed, said they had 30 & 40 footers go out and come back because of the waves.
The rest of the day any ride at Cedar Point was kids stuff compared to what we came through.


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