# Best muzzleloader?



## Pigpen69 (Feb 20, 2001)

I shoot 1" groups all day with my Black diamond. I think it is relatively decent as far as price. I got mine off an action auction last year and killed A FAT doe at 136 yds with no sweat. I think you can get a kit for like 250-300, and it comes with all three nipples. Although the shotgun primers are definitely the best. I have a bushnell stalker 3x 9 variable and it really is a good gun. Light and Accurate. Although like all good little boys, I want an Encore for x-mas but I think santas not listening. Maybe next year.


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## ArrowFlinger (Sep 18, 2000)

Not intending to hijack this thread, but I am thinking of getting a muzzle loader for next year. I am looking for something that is easy to maintain and load. I looked at the Omega since it is advertized as the easiest to clean. Is it a decent gun.

Also can someone summarize the different types of ignitions and benefits. Again looking for the ease of use.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Yes, the Omega is a great gun....I think it and the Encore are neck in neck for the top factory muzzleloader. You can't go wrong with either. Plenty of good guns out there and maybe the Knight Revolution is quick third but I don't like the way that gun balances or shoulders.....just doesn't feel right to me. Knight has some great deals going on their Disc guns, after the rebate, you can get them for under $200.....these are the same rifles they were originaly selling for $500. Great guns, but require a little more effort to clean compared to the Omega and similiar guns, but it is still minimal. Worth a look anyway. TC is a great company, hard to go wrong with any of their products.
I've posted it a few times, but go to www.natchezss.com for some great deals on the Omega and the Disc rifles. Whatever you buy, get stainless, it's worth every extra penny in these guns. It will still rust and corrode so maintanance is still a must.
Stick with 209 primers.....hard to buy an inline that isn't strictly 209 anymore. No drawbacks to this at all. I have a stainless Remington and have yet to convert it to 209. I use the musket cap nipple instead of the #11 nipple because it was cheap and easy. I have never had a misfire yet, not even a hangfire. It only has a 22" barrel and it seems tpo burn the 100 grains of powder just fine. The short barrel and nipple set up does not fully burn 150 grains of powder, but thats allright with me, 100 grains is enough for my purposes.
My next gun purchase will be the Thumbhole Stock Omega, expensive but it feels like lightning in my arms, I like the feel much better than the standard Omega, which still feels pretty darn nice.
Go buy one!


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## Magnet (Mar 2, 2001)

Don't go with anything smaller than a 50 cal barrel if you think you might use it some day for hunting other states. Some states out west have a 50 cal minimum law. Also, make sure the gun you select is set up to use the 209 shotgun primers. The shotgun primers make your muzzle loader alot more reliable in foul weather.


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

anybody got any opinions on the NEF huntsmen?

thinking about sending in my .223 and having a .50 cal barrel fitted..


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

I purchased one for my stepfather last fall. Shoots pretty darn good, though I really haven't spent much time dialing it in. Where he hunts, 50 yards is about the longest shot and it groups them very well at that distance......only fired it a couple of times at 100 yards and it looks promising. The gun is nice and compact, easy to clean etc. The plastic primer carriers work well, easy to load and easy to see that it is loaded. The breech plug tool isn't the greatest, but if you go to the H&R website and look in their forums, guys there have modified them to fit spark plug sockets and use a rachet for leverage. Once you mount a scope, it's tough to get leverage with the small tool. We have not had any problems yet, but we take the breech plug out immediately after were done using the gun, we don't let it it sit for any extended period with crud in it. Scope mounting is easy, like the rest of the NEF/H&R guns. The factory fiber optic sights are ok, but they are (or atleast were) plastic so I'm not sure how durable they will be in the long run.....moot point to my stepfather as he uses a scope. the ram rod is telescoping so it fits in such a short package. It works ok for field use, but I suggest a good range rod for the majority of the use. Some people claim it's to short depending on the bullet/load combination so they pack a small dowel in the field with them to push the ramrod in a bit farther.
Imo, for $160, it's tough to beat...far better than the tough to clean CVA's and Traditions in the same price point. Not sure what they charge for a conversion, but it might not cost to much more just to buy the whole gun.


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## twohats (Oct 1, 2004)

I have a TC Firehawk thats an inline, SS ,use's # 11 caps and has a thumb hole stock.It always fires and I love the thumb hole.It lets you pull it nice and tight to the shoulder. Unfortunetly they dont make it anymore. What ever gun you pick clean it well and it will be good to you.


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## ArrowFlinger (Sep 18, 2000)

Any feedback on the Magnum Hunter advertised from Gander Mountain for $199?

Is it junk or is a decent firearm. In a few years I can give it to my son then buy an Omega. By the the price of the Omega will be down and I can have 2 for about the same amount of cash. I is always good to have a build in excuse for needing to upgrade the equipment every few years.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Which gun is it? Post a link....they have about half a dozen with the word Magnum in it...whats the brand?

For $200 I would by one of the knight Disc rifles...stay away from the spanish made stuff, it may not last long enough to hand down. If you look through the natchez link I posted you can get a blued/synthetic Knight Disc for $179 after the $50 rebate.....If thats your price range you will find no better gun, and it will be a gun you may not want to hand down when the time comes. there are numerous $150 bolt action style inlines but none will hold a candle to that Knight for that kind of price....to me those prices, make the cva's and the traditions etc in that price range obsolete.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Try This
http://www.natchezss.com/category.c...RecID=&brand=KG&category=19&prodID=KGDISC706C

$260 for a stainless/composite knight Disc rifle with 26" barrel, plus you get a $50 rebate. This rifle was a $500 gun when first intrduced and it's stil las good as it was then, jsut al ittle more work to clean. The standard blued model for $226 is currently out of stock, but they may get more in??


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

swamp monster - 

as always - a good informative post. thank you for the input.

i'll probably get one whether its a conversion or a new gun. i'm looking to use the hornady 240 grain XTP's, with 100 grains of triple 7. at least for a starting point. any advice on the loads that you use?

i'm hoping this will be a 100-150 yard gun for me. i have other NEF's and love the guns, which is why i want to stick with them. my H&R slug gun - with open sights, is a tack driver. even ventured out to about 130 yards last year with a doe - performed flawlessly, but the conditions were perfect. i'm going to finally break down and get optics on the muzzleloader.

but i'm new to muzzleloading... hope my expectations aren't too high.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

I don't think your expectations are to high. We are currently shooting the gun with 100 grains of T7 and 300 grain XTP's in the mag sabots. Haven't tried any other combo's yet, but this one load shows lots of promise. I use the same load in my Remington and my gun loves this combo and so thats what we started with. The 240's shot almost as good in my gun, but in the end the 300's got the nod and since my shots are typically under 100 yards, the added velocity of the lighter loads didn't really matter to me. And really point of impact at 100 yards is pretty close. The XTPs are cheap to shoot and perform really well on deer from what I have seen, though my own combo has yet to be put to that test...maybe in a few days!?? I had expected this gun to kick a little since it is pretty light, but I was surprised how well the stock design and recoil pad tamed this gun. There is a bit of muzzle jump, but it's controlable. And since you have the slug gun, this thing will feel like a varmit gun in comparison! 
I plan to put this gun through its paces this winter or spring, it's been shot less than 50 times so it's not even broke in yet. Overall I'm happy with this gun and if they offer a model with the laminated stocks like the Ultra models, I'll buy another one for myself as well.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

You may want to check out the sidekick instead of the huntsman...looks to be the same gun except you can get the sidekick with a 26" barrel. The extra length may be something you want to consider if you want to burn a little more powder, say 130-150 grains.


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## deputy (Feb 2, 2002)

you guys should also look into the horanady sst in the 200/250 grain weights it is a bullet made for muzzeloaders not a pistol bullet, it has better b.c and bullet integraty than the xtp when going through brush and shoot flatter and hold up well under higher speeds! and is 7 bucks for 20 rounds i used to shoot the xtps but switched to the sst much better bullet


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

I have some 300 TC Shockwaves, basically the Hornady SST. And your right, these are a great bullet. These are 45 caliber instead of the .429 XTPs and I do like that. I have shot a few of them in my Remington and they are pretty good, thought the XTP's shoot a bit better in my gun with the powder combo I'm using. I will work on them some more, but for this year the XTP's will be the choice and at the distances I'm shooting, the terminal performance of the XTP's will be more than acceptable. 
When I get my Omega, the SST or Shockwave will be the bullet I try to develop a load around. With the 250 gr bullets and 130-150 gr of T7, I'll be looking to extend my range past the 200 yard mark. I don't expect to use my Remington/XTP combo much over 100 yards, though I would note hesitate to take a shot out to 150 yards + if conditions are right.

I have not looked at the prices of the Hornady, But I will if they are only $7 for 20. The 300 TC's are $11 for 15 compared with $11 for 30 of the XTP mags around here. 

Have you shot anything up close with these loads yet at the velocities that your Ultimate produces? I would think they would hold up perfectly, regardless of the shot angle or bone, but it would be interesting to hear a report


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## deputy (Feb 2, 2002)

Last deer i shot was a large mature doe almost 140 pounds on the hoof.

60yds shot and the wound was terrible! had a basic entrance wound but the exit of the entrance was about 3 inches around and the actual exit wound was about 5 inches with large amounts of rib blown out and fragmented with a large piece of lung tissue hanging about 7 feet behind were she was standing, she ran 30yds an feel dead on her feet in mid run mid body behind the shoulder shot.
last year i shot a large doe at 140yds in the shoulder and dropped it with 100t7pellets.

killed a large doe at 247yds this year and he dropped on spot! high shoulder shot. look to this weekend paper to see my buddys monster he killed with my gun at 275yds with an sst complete pass through animal dropped in 25-30yds
killed a small meat deer this year as well with it at 45 yds and just turned her insides to jello not much but intestines were visiable as solid


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## Joeker51 (Jan 25, 2002)

Very satisfied with my TC Black Dimaond XR 50 cal. in-line. Uses 209 primers or you can change it out for one of the others. Comes with a kit that includes 3 nipples. Haven't had any issues with it. When done using it for the season take the beech plug out or your asking for problems.


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

Swamp Monster said:


> I don't think your expectations are to high. We are currently shooting the gun with 100 grains of T7 and 300 grain XTP's in the mag sabots. Haven't tried any other combo's yet, but this one load shows lots of promise. I use the same load in my Remington and my gun loves this combo and so thats what we started with. The 240's shot almost as good in my gun, but in the end the 300's got the nod and since my shots are typically under 100 yards, the added velocity of the lighter loads didn't really matter to me. And really point of impact at 100 yards is pretty close. The XTPs are cheap to shoot and perform really well on deer from what I have seen, though my own combo has yet to be put to that test...maybe in a few days!?? I had expected this gun to kick a little since it is pretty light, but I was surprised how well the stock design and recoil pad tamed this gun. There is a bit of muzzle jump, but it's controlable. And since you have the slug gun, this thing will feel like a varmit gun in comparison!
> I plan to put this gun through its paces this winter or spring, it's been shot less than 50 times so it's not even broke in yet. Overall I'm happy with this gun and if they offer a model with the laminated stocks like the Ultra models, I'll buy another one for myself as well.


thanks again.. sounds like a good combo to try out. and at the price, i'll probably check out the sst's that deputy recommended.

btw, swamp, if you want the muzzleloader in a laminate version, you can always get one of the handi/ultra rifles/shotguns in either a camo, or a new cinammon laminate, and then have a barrel put on.. who couldn't use a new .223, .243, .270, 30-06, etc., etc., anyway?


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

rzdrmh said:


> btw, swamp, if you want the muzzleloader in a laminate version, you can always get one of the handi/ultra rifles/shotguns in either a camo, or a new cinammon laminate, and then have a barrel put on.. who couldn't use a new .223, .243, .270, 30-06, etc., etc., anyway?


This is true and I thought about contacting H&R to see if its possible to modify the forearm to accept the the large diameter muzzleloader barrel and ramrod.....those two issues would need to be worked out but it seems entirely possible.
Maybe I'll just email them and request that they just bring this gu nto market!

Deputy...can't argue with that kind of performance! Which paper are we taking about?


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## Hawker (Jan 6, 2003)

Detroit news. Sat i belive.


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## deputy (Feb 2, 2002)

I know gun is legal, smokless isnt i know typed it wrong


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## One Eye (Sep 10, 2000)

Sorry, didn't mean to come off as a smarta$$. Must have been one of those days  

Dan


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## Jacob Huffman (Sep 13, 2004)

I use a CVA hunter bolt magnum 50 cal.I use it only for muzzleloader season.Why spend hundreds of dollars for an encore when all your going to get to use it(if you hunt muzzleloader only)is 10 days.My CVA is very accurate and has enough power to hit and kill any deer I want to shoot.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Buying a muzzleloader is about as easy as naming a child.

For the money a Knight Disc Elite is a great rifle.

Knight Disc Elite Pricing 

I took 3 does in 20 minutes yesterday with one in the UP. All head shots so tracking was breeze, (I have a hard time seeing red in dim light, even in snow, thus the need for an accurate rifle that won't break the bank). None of them were over a hundred yards.

Keep in mind you will have to scope this rifle, it does not come with iron sights. Put aside another $100 for other items you will need once you put on a scope. Just to name a few items you will need but the list can get pretty long.

Cleaning patches, powder, powder flask, bullets, sabots, powder measure, ball starter, cleaning jag, bronze brush, breach plug lube, primers, speed loaders, patch puller, bullet puller, bore swabs, range rod, tool box to store this stuff and the list goes on. If you're like me you'll buy several bullet weights and sabot combos to find the most accuate out of your new rifle.

Muzzleloading rifle season is my favorite time of year, 17 days if you hunt both peninsulas like me. Throw in 16 days for firearm season plus early antlerless season and you can justify spending a few more bucks for a quality firearm.

Good luck on what ever you choose.


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## Banditto (Jun 9, 2000)

I like my Knight Disc Elite. They phased them out though and are getting harder and harder to find. 

I paid a whole lot less for it...


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## Dave200516 (Mar 31, 2004)

I picked a remington up for christmas (santa came early). I got it at jays when they were having their blowout sale. I got it i think for 300.00. They had Knights for like 75.00 or 80.00. It was insane. The trigger guard breaks down like the thompson center omega. I love this gun, it is so easy to clean and shoots unbelievably. 
Good luck to everyone during the ML season.


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## Dave200516 (Mar 31, 2004)

I picked a remington up for christmas (santa came early) last year. I got it at JAYS SPORTING GOODS when they were having their blowout sale. I got it, i think for 300.00. They had Knights for like 75.00 or 80.00. It was insane. The trigger guard breaks down like the thompson center omega. I love this gun, it is so easy to clean and shoots AWSOME. 
Good luck to everyone during the ML season.


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## Superintendent of Fish (Jan 10, 2002)

I ordered my first ML online thru Bass Pro Sports. CVA Optima with the nickel barrel, synthetic stock for $199. Can't wait to get outdoors again.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Dave, ahh, I think you bought a Winchester, not a Remington. The Winchester Apex has the drop away trigger (aka falling block )style action.

The Remington is a Bolt Action design...now discountinued, but plenty on the shelf. If your trigger guard falls away on this gun.....you might want to take it back!


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## passthru (Oct 28, 2003)

MIBIGHNTR, Does Ultimate sell a hitch and wheels to go with their 100 pound guns? HAHAHA!!!!!!! Ive held your gun and couldnt imagine hauling that thing around all day. Its a great gun if you like to sit on your butt all day. You know me I never stay still and that gun would be impossible to stalk corn with. Ill keep my Encore!!!!! Hey I got some good 1" groups with it last week at west walker. I went to a different way of charging. Brother bought an Encore today too. Portland this weekend??? cpaddock87 from Kisky.com may join us on Sunday.


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## deputy (Feb 2, 2002)

humm weighed them out lets see 3 pound differance between then fully decked out. and my plastic stocked one is equal to my laminated encore! 
no wheels needed here!  but yah it is a bet heavier


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## MIBIGHNTR (Aug 27, 2002)

Passy - 

Real men carry real guns..... :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Come on now, you should have expected that one!  

I thought it would be more of a burden to carry, but it isn't that bad at all. Maybe I should pick up one of Melvin's for a "walk around muzzleloader"?  

Sunday is looking C,C,Cold..... they should be up and moving. Hopefully the corn will be down! The more the merrier!

See ya,

Mark


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

Swamp Monster said:


> .....Scope mounting is easy, like the rest of the NEF/H&R guns. The factory fiber optic sights are ok, but they are (or atleast were) plastic so I'm not sure how durable they will be in the long run.....moot point to my stepfather as he uses a scope. ......


swamp - thought you might like to know - the barrel that i received didn't have plastic sights - had metal sights with "williams" stamped on the rear sight. looked to be pretty durable. i've got my mueller 2-7 mounted too. the gun shoulders very nice. i'm very glad that i sent in my handi rifle receiver instead of the pardner II shotgun reciever. unfortunately, with as comfortable as this feels, if it shoots well, the old reliable slug gun might start collecting a little dust.. 

i've changed my mind, after reading a good deal on chuck hawks web site.

i'm starting out with 80 grains of 777 (powder), and 325 grain sabots by buffalo bullet co. we've got precision rifle's "dead centers" to test in a 240 grain sabot, and some of the 260 grain powerbelts as well. i'm hoping that the buffalo bullet co sabot wins out. i really like the idea of an all lead bullet for down-range energy. if this isn't it, then i'll probably try the hornady great plains conical as well, trying to find that all-lead bullet that will work. hopefully, i'll get to shoot this weekend. i'll let you know how it goes. winchester primers for the time being.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

RZ, I think NEF changed the sights after some issues and some complaints. I see the new ones are using the Williams fire sights, or a similiar model from Williams. I feel this is an improvement for sure. This gun as only seen a few days in the field and thats probably the case year in and year out in my stepfathers case. it will see plenty of range time though, but I don't see the sights being an issue. 

He is using 777 pellets, 100 grains with 300 grain XTP's and the results look promising. I'll be experimenting with this gun and my new Encore this spring. I plan on starting with loose 777 as well. I am doing the breech plug conversion on the Encore for sure (.25acp case and small rifle primers) and may do it on the NEF once Precision bullets gets it on the market, but we'll seeafter some more testing. Overall, I really like the NEF! And even though the Encore as 3x the price, I highly doubt it will be 3x more accurate!!


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## ublyhunter (Jan 10, 2005)

Thompson Center is an awesome gun - 500- 700 dollars

CVA Firebolt - Competes with the T/C and only costs 260 dollars.

I own the CVA and love it!


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## MarbleEyeMack (Jul 14, 2007)

I have a T/C Omega. Bought it 5 years ago. (I think) Have killed several deer with it. I Have the Bushnell Elite 3-9 X 50 scope and it shoots like a dream. I took two Doe this year, each in excess of 150 yds. Verified distances with the range finder. I use the T/C shockwave sabot. 250 grain, with three 50 gr. pellets of triple 7's. The one doe did not take a step. Planted her where she stood! The shot was a through and through on both shoulders. Exit wound was kinda ugly. She was walking slowly, so I put it on her shoulder, and that is precisely where it hit. The velocity is plenty fast. My Uncle shoots the encore and swears by it as well. My father is shooting the CVA Optima Pro magnum. Iron sights. I have shot it with great success to 100 yds. No Problems. Now this year, I have heard locally, three different people who have purchased the Remington Genesis, complain about the quality of the firearm. One was sent back to Remington. The front sight was mounted out of alignment. I'm told the holes which anchor it in place were drilled in the wrong place. (I'm told, did not see it myself)
This is the extent of my experience. This is my conventional knowledge, based solely off of my experience and conversations with friends and family. Happy Hunting.


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## woodie slayer (Feb 25, 2006)

encore pro hunter


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## Rootsy (Nov 1, 2006)

Real muzzleloaders throw sparks


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## wally-eye (Oct 27, 2004)

Rootsy said:


> Real muzzleloaders throw sparks



Yep, just like my 23 year old TC 54 cal. iron sighted side lock......BOOM..... but I cheat and use a #11 on it........lmao


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## redwingsdude (Jan 6, 2002)

I was wondering why I didn't see any mention of the TC Triumph, this thread is four years old!


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