# Moving opener poll



## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

At the Coldwater meeting yesterday the guy who represents businesses, he’s from Jay’s, suggested that trout and walleye openers conflict and force people to pick one of the other. How do you feel about that? His suggestion was to move the trout opener.


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## mfs686 (Mar 15, 2007)

Why move the walleye opener, half the state is fishing for them in the Detroit River right now anyways. lol


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

mfs686 said:


> Why move the walleye opener, half the state is fishing for them in the Detroit River right now anyways. lol


Truth. That’s why I think moving walleye makes more sense. Wasn’t that long ago it was April 15 anyway. Trout opener is a pretty revered tradition and an event for many people. Weather wise it’s all a crapshoot every year.


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

I think we should move both to the Tuesday after the last Saturday in April!


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

plugger said:


> I think we should move both to the Tuesday after the last Saturday in April!


At 1:37:42 pm.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Or close them all for 2 seasons.... to protect the fishery. LOL

Flies only, C&R.  :lol:


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Move the trout opener to Dec 1.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Why even bother at this point! Some guides got a free ride below Mio, which has been restricted since biblical days, add the upper at Gates, year round.

Just limit the take or C&R during the off season! If someone is willing to ply through through 2’of snow why not make it legal for all streams?


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

Shoeman said:


> Or close them all for 2 seasons.... to protect the fishery. LOL
> 
> Flies only, C&R.  :lol:


 Sorry, gonna be fishing worms tomorrow and eating trout!


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Go gettum, Mike!


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

plugger said:


> Sorry, gonna be fishing worms tomorrow and eating trout!


Lol, I'm sure you will. Really though, that shows how important the traditional opener is socially and is a good argument for it being preserved as a part of our fishing culture. You could have been fishing worms for brookies and browns all winter near your home. Maybe you were. Down here in the south I have 5 streams within 40 miles of me that are open to bait fishing all winter and none of them have salmon or steelhead. The opportunities are there for year round inland stream trout fishing. It seems that the tradition of Last Saturday to September 30 is so ingrained that most people don't even think of the possibility of going in the *off* season. Rather stay home and gripe, I guess. Much easier to blame your laziness on someone else than to take advantage of the opportunities afforded you.

edited to correct autocorrect


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

kzoofisher said:


> It seems that the tradition of Last Saturday to September 30 is so ingrained that most people don't even think of the possibility of going in the *off* season. Rather stay home and gripe, I guess. Much easier to blame your laziness on someone else than to take advantage of the opportunities afforded you.


You will have to show us these posts of people "not even thinking of going in the off season," and blaming it on others. Batter up!


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

plugger said:


> Sorry, gonna be fishing worms tomorrow and eating trout!





kzoofisher said:


> Lol, I'm sure you will. Really though, that shows how important the traditional opener is socially and is a good argument for it being preserved as a part of our fishing culture. You could have been fishing worms for rookies and browns all winter near your home. Maybe you were. Down here in the south I have 5 streams within 40 miles of me that are open to bait fishing all winter and none of them have salmon or steelhead. The opportunities are there for year round inland stream trout fishing. It seems that the tradition of Last Saturday to September 30 is so ingrained that most people don't even think of the possibility of going in the *off* season. Rather stay home and gripe, I guess. Much easier to blame your laziness on someone else than to take advantage of the opportunities afforded you.


 Suck what?


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

Ranger Ray said:


> You will have to show us these posts of people "not even thinking of going in the off season," and blaming it on others. Batter up!


Didn't say it was posters here. Guilty conscience making you overreact?


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

No, just wanted to see if you were interpreting out of context from what was being said again. Guess if it is happening mysteriously elsewhere, we won't know. The fact you introduced the scenario out of nowhere, tells me it was festering in your conscious though.


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

Came up in conversation at work today. Bunch of guys born and raised in Calhoun County and they had no idea that their complaints were groundless and based on willful ignorance. I meet a lot of people like that. Many of them even think they are smart but it doesn't take much effort to leave them grumbling in the face of the truth. They seldom resort to insults which is nice. I find that is usually reserved for the anonymity of the internet.


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## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

From what I remember from the meeting, it seemed like they were more interested in moving the walleye opener up a week, but one or the other being moved was correct. I say leave it as is.


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

kzoofisher said:


> Didn't say it was posters here. Guilty conscience making you overreact?


No insults? You should learn from them


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## strmanglr (Sep 23, 2015)

I have no issues with the trout opener at the time it is, with the exception of when I'm steelhead fishing and hook a nice brown. 

Maybe open steelhead streams to browns from Jan 1st. Most of those browns I'm catching while steelhead fishing I would think are coming in with the steelhead.

Obviously, there are many trout streams open year round that are essentially C&R until the possession season opens.


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## mbirdsley (Jan 12, 2012)

Can you C&r on a closed trout stream. Or is it off limits to fish untill the opener on the last Saturday of April?


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## strmanglr (Sep 23, 2015)

mbirdsley said:


> Can you C&r on a closed trout stream. Or is it off limits to fish untill the opener on the last Saturday of April?


If it's closed, no fishing.

There are many trout streams open to rainbows and steelhead that can be fished all year. You just must C&R browns and brookies. 

Manistee R for instance.


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

There are 130 streams open as Type 4 (all gear) even though many have no salmon and steelhead like the 5 near Kalamazoo, all unmentionables. Might even be one of your favorites is a Type 4 and you don't know it, ever fish the trout stream 40 miles west of Chesaning? Check out the map in your area and the Trout Trails page from the DNR. A whole lot of lightly fished unmentionables out there. Yes, it's catch and release October to the last Saturday, standard regs during the regular season. It's also a chance to get out fishing this fall and early next spring. Summer is a great time to scout new water.

https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-350-79119_79146_82436-448503--,00.html


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## Treven (Feb 21, 2006)

Keep it as is. Less people fishing where I fish, the better. I say "tough crap" to those having to make a decision between the two.

Now, if we wanted to get into the weeds and talk about / poll whether everything should be C&R-only during restricted seasons, I'd support that in a second...


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## Boardman Brookies (Dec 20, 2007)

Move the trout opener! Some years it ends up being the last day in April.....but other years it ends up around the 23rd so we get an extra week! Can’t win!!!


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## mbirdsley (Jan 12, 2012)

strmanglr said:


> If it's closed, no fishing.
> 
> There are many trout streams open to rainbows and steelhead that can be fished all year. You just must C&R browns and brookies.
> 
> Manistee R for instance.


Ok that is where I was getting confused.


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## fishinDon (May 23, 2002)

Treven said:


> Now, if we wanted to get into the weeds and talk about / poll whether everything should be C&R-only during restricted seasons, I'd support that in a second...


Yes!! All streams, all year!

And if not that, I’ll settle out of court for October and all of April.


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## Treven (Feb 21, 2006)

I'd want it to be all waters in Michigan!


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

Treven said:


> I'd want it to be all waters in Michigan!


This idea, or something like it, was presented to the DNR and the biologists were concerned that it might be detrimental. As was stated earlier in the thread, there isn't much in the way of modern studies to validate or invalidate that concern. I think it's a great idea. I also appreciate the DNR erring on the side of caution. There is a ton of water with browns and brookies in it that is open year round without gear restrictions and a lot of it doesn't have salmon or steelhead. Quite a few unmentionables but also miles of the Manistee and Muskegon and Au Sable. 

I think this is proving hard for some people to believe. Anyone who is wondering if there is some water near them and isn't sure how to find it can PM me the name of the nearest town and I'll tell them what is within 50 miles or whatever distance they choose.


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## Treven (Feb 21, 2006)

I’m with you. I get them erring on the cautious side. I also think many anglers have a different mindset on conservation when compared to the past - especially when looking at previous research.

I’m actually aiming toward having C&R only walleye, pike, muskie during restricted seasons more-so than trout, but if the opportunity presented itself, it would nice to go trophy picture hunting during a restricted season and if a trophy fish were to be landed, I could easily have a replica made if I wanted it on the wall.

My preference is always replicas for trophies, but replicas have certainly come a LONG way in recent years to justify my stance


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## Duke (Oct 6, 2000)

First came bass, now Muskies were added to year round C&R this year. I’m thinking you’re right that pike are next, but walleye?? Very little C&R interest in eyes, but who knows


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

Why move it? If anything, move the walleye opener.


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## fishinDon (May 23, 2002)

kzoofisher said:


> This idea, or something like it, was presented to the DNR and the biologists were concerned that it might be detrimental. As was stated earlier in the thread, there isn't much in the way of modern studies to validate or invalidate that concern. I think it's a great idea. I also appreciate the DNR erring on the side of caution. There is a ton of water with browns and brookies in it that is open year round without gear restrictions and a lot of it doesn't have salmon or steelhead. Quite a few unmentionables but also miles of the Manistee and Muskegon and Au Sable.
> 
> I think this is proving hard for some people to believe. Anyone who is wondering if there is some water near them and isn't sure how to find it can PM me the name of the nearest town and I'll tell them what is within 50 miles or whatever distance they choose.


Midland - I’d dare say it’s close. Maybe at 49 miles somewhere. 

Just cause the map shows a color (Type 3) doesn’t mean it holds any resident trout. Titt/Chip gets a small run of Steel. Good for bass all summer tho.


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## wyandot (Dec 5, 2013)

Steve said:


> Why move it? If anything, move the walleye opener.


Walleye season is only closed six weeks, why move it either?


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

Less than 50 to the Rifle, a pretty good trout stream. Midland is hardly a hot spot for trout streams so you have to expect to drive a bit. It's probably what, 30 miles to the nearest Type 1? A stream with a good reputation in some circles but unmentionable. Still, even in Midland you're less than an hour from a winter outing if it strikes your fancy. Better than someone in Bad Axe. It would be nice to have more water open, that's true, and maybe in the future we will.


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## PunyTrout (Mar 23, 2007)

What is this _'Walleye' _that you speak of? Is it a kind of fish? What has it got to do with trout fishing?

If someone can't decide between fishing for one or the other for opening day, eff em. Too bad. Figure out your priorities in life and do what you prefer. The last Saturday in April may be a holy day in the calender but it's often poor weather for fishing anyway.


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## Pinefarm2015 (Nov 29, 2015)

I thought sportsmen loved midweek openers? Why do it on a Saturday at all? 

How about April 15?


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## strmanglr (Sep 23, 2015)

fishinDon said:


> Midland - I’d dare say it’s close. Maybe at 49 miles somewhere.
> 
> Just cause the map shows a color (Type 3) doesn’t mean it holds any resident trout. Titt/Chip gets a small run of Steel. Good for bass all summer tho.


Maybe I shouldn't be saying this, but that river has browns.


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## fishinDon (May 23, 2002)

strmanglr said:


> Maybe I shouldn't be saying this, but that river has browns.


TMI!! Lol


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## 22 Chuck (Feb 2, 2006)

As one fellow just above said-fish what you like but no need to move.

Next thing you will be wanting to move deer opener.


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

CL-Lewiston said:


> As one fellow just above said-fish what you like but no need to move.


 It’s a fair point. My take is that there would be a lot more opposition to moving trout than walleye and the poll bears that out among some dedicated trout fishermen. How much benefit there would be to Northern towns is a big question for me. Unless they were quite far apart I don’t think too many guys would make both, too many time constraints to make two big weekends in just a few weeks. Probably best to just leave things as is.


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## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

Leave as is is the right thing to do. One thing that always stuck in my head about the question in the first place was, What is the REAL story behind this thought process, is it for the benefit of the people so they don't have to make that decision, or is it someway to benefit Jays, or any other sporting goods store, and outdoor business in general? To me, that is the fairer question.


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

He gave all those reasons. First thing he said was customers having to choose one over the other. He thought that might be contributing to the decline in trout fishing; when guys blow off the the trout opener tradition they don't take their kids and introduce them and the kids become strictly warm water anglers because they grow up with walleye opener. 

He also said that by having to choose, they buy gear for the one they pick, increasingly walleye. This might hurt Jay's a little but they have enough walleye gear it's probably a drop in the bucket. The tackle shops it really hits are the little Mom and Pops in the north who look forward to that opening weekend bump to get them out of the end of winter doldrums. Also towns that look do the same thing with hotels and grocery stores. When the opener is bad they have to wait for morel season, also declining in popularity, and Memorial Day. And remember that those business owners are citizens of Michigan who the DNR also has an obligation to serve. You may not like it but it's the law.

I posted a similar poll in the warm water forum and got a mirror result to this one. 67% wanted to keep walleye just the way it is. A lot of people feel pretty strongly about it and I doubt the idea goes anywhere. If the combined openers _is_ one of the factors in the decline of trout fishing that will be a shame.

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## Duke (Oct 6, 2000)

My guess is walleyes are one of the factors for the decline in trout fishing. The surge in walleye populations has made fishing for them easy, at times. People like easy. Trout fishing is not easy. Trout fishing is not sitting in boat with friends and beer, it is not trolling or jigging. And I I think we are getting lazier as a culture, including in our outdoor pursuits.

The walleye season absolutely should be changed (open all year) but only for the Great Lakes spawning tributaries. The population can sustain the added harvest and anglers should be able to take advantage. 

Even if it did however, I highly doubt that trout opener participation will see any uptick- not as long as walleye fishing is so good.


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## Boardman Brookies (Dec 20, 2007)

Traditionally the trout opener is a very busy weekend. All of the access points have a vehicle parked there. No during the week they are void. Weekend pressure is low.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Come up to the UP where walleye and pike open May 15 and almost all of the major streams are a type 4.


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## Hauptmann6 (Oct 19, 2012)

kzoofisher said:


> He gave all those reasons. First thing he said was customers having to choose one over the other. He thought that might be contributing to the decline in trout fishing; when guys blow off the the trout opener tradition they don't take their kids and introduce them and the kids become strictly warm water anglers because they grow up with walleye opener.


Not to derail this thread, but I think there are other much harder to solve problems holding trout fishing back. Namely the regulations. If you've been doing it for the last 30 years you are used to them. But starting, you look at the rulebook, start to read it, go cross eyed and say screw this. Plus all the new equipment required. 

To compare it to walleye. Walleye requires a standard fishing pole, and various bait. Much of it is in common with other types of fishing. And a boat helps.

Trout, understand the rules and where you can actually fish, if you can keep them(depending on very specific location). Buy a fly rod(even for a cheap one, 2x as expensive as a decent rod/reel), learn to use, buy a ton of flies that may or may not work. Waders, special nets, vest etc. And unless you have a friend that's willing to teach, the learning process is amazingly slow to actually figure out a river or stream/technique.


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

Friend of mine is going to be in the UP in August. He wants to fish for brook trout because he's never caught one and he wants to try fly fishing at the same time. He wondered about the regs in Alger county and we talked about it.

Him: I see the list of streams in the guide but it doesn't list all the designated streams.
Me: Yeah? So what?
Him: How do I know what the regs are on those streams?
Me: Well, if it isn't listed in the exceptions or as a Type 2, 3 or 4 in the guide it's a Type 1
Him: They're almost all type 1 then
Me: Yep
Him: The one I want to fish is this one (points at map) that I've driven past for years.
Me: What are the rules on it?
Him: They're this up to here and then that all the way to the headwaters
Me: Sounds good. You're done learning the rules for your trip.
Him: What about the rest of them?
Me: If you aren't going to fish them why do you care? Pick another one or two as back ups, see what the rules are and go have fun. When you started walleye fishing did you go out and get everything for slip bobbering, live rigging, Lindy rigging, bottom bouncing, pulling harnesses, long lining cranks, in-line weights, planer boards, jigging live bait, jigging plastics and trolling spoons?
Him: No! It took me years to get all that stuff.
Me: Then don't bother trying to start trout fishing like you've been doing it for 30 years. Take some attractor dries, caddis, hare's ears and pheasant tail nymphs and have fun. Look for the brookies in the same places you would look for steelhead but on a much smaller scale.
Him: How am I going to learn the rest of these rules?
Me: Do you know the walleye regs for inland, Saginaw Bay, Lake St Clair, the Detroit and Erie?
Him: Yeah.
Me: Do you know the big lake rules for silver fish and lake trout from Indiana to Frankfort?
Him: Yeah.
Me: Do you know the boiler code inside and out?
Him: Yeah.
Me: Did you learn all that in an evening or did it take you a while? I thought so. Just go fishing and figure it out as you go along.

That's actually a paraphrase of the conversation. There was a lot more ribbing and swearing.


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## Shupac (Apr 17, 2005)

Hauptmann6 said:


> To compare it to walleye. Walleye requires a standard fishing pole, and various bait. Much of it is in common with other types of fishing. And a boat helps.
> 
> Trout, understand the rules and where you can actually fish, if you can keep them(depending on very specific location). Buy a fly rod(even for a cheap one, 2x as expensive as a decent rod/reel), learn to use, buy a ton of flies that may or may not work. Waders, special nets, vest etc. And unless you have a friend that's willing to teach, the learning process is amazingly slow to actually figure out a river or stream/technique.


Interesting. I've always found walleye the most counterintuitive fish around. 

People talk about the high cost of fly fishing. But you could get all the things you mention for less than the cost of a 12' aluminum boat, trailer, and outboard. Buy the former and you're an elitist, buy the latter and you're still Joe Six Pack.


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## Tilden Hunter (Jun 14, 2018)

I've always been warm water only. That was until they did away with the restricted license. Then I just quit fishing altogether. I wasn't about to subsidize the trout fishing while never doing it. I guess I no longer have a dog in this fight.


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

Shupac said:


> Interesting. I've always found walleye the most counterintuitive fish around.
> 
> People talk about the high cost of fly fishing. But you could get all the things you mention for less than the cost of a 12' aluminum boat, trailer, and outboard. Buy the former and you're an elitist, buy the latter and you're still Joe Six Pack.


And you can fly fish out of a Honda Fit but you can’t pull a boat with one.


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

Tilden Hunter said:


> I've always been warm water only. That was until they did away with the restricted license. Then I just quit fishing altogether. I wasn't about to subsidize the trout fishing while never doing it. I guess I no longer have a dog in this fight.


You’re not subsidizing cold water fisheries, they are no longer subsidizing the warm water guys. The extra money was never dedicated to cold water.


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## Treven (Feb 21, 2006)

kzoofisher said:


> You’re not subsidizing cold water fisheries, they are no longer subsidizing the warm water guys. The extra money was never dedicated to cold water.


Being we're talking about General Fund dollars, pretty tough to figure out where A LOT of it goes sometimes...


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

Not really, 67% of the DNR budget comes from State restricted funds that have dedicated spending requirements and the biggest chunk of that is license fees. Another 17% is Federal money that is also tightly controlled. Only 14% comes from the General Fund. That's the whole DNR budget. Fisheries by itself is largely funded by license fees while the General Fund money goes to infrastructure, law enforcement, wildfire protection and stuff like that. 

Don't rile people up too much about paying for DNR services they don't use. We don't want the public figuring out that the pay about a half cent per gallon of gas to help fund the DNR. 80% of that money goes to maintain harbors and boat ramps, about $22 million. Heck, a lot of fly fishermen don't even own boats, why should they pay that money?


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## fisheater (Nov 14, 2010)

I certainly do not support opening the small streams to all year catch and release. There are too many "disabled" guys that can't work, but they sure can fish. My buddy has a cabin on unmentionable. I was up there in early November, stream was closed. Mr Disabled comes up through my buddy's yard with a satchel over his shoulder. It was not hard to go to where he had come up from. My buddy spotted the fishing pole stash first. Small streams can't take the pressure. If it were C&R in a trout stream, hooks should be barbless.


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