# Electrician Help Please



## Christian (Feb 23, 2004)

I want to run electricity to my pole barn. I want to have 8 lights (6 inside 2 outside), 4 outlets and an outlet for a garage door opener. What size wire is needed to run to the circuit breaker? How many breakers? I have the basic knowledge of wiring. Any input will be appreciated.

Thanks


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

How far is the the barn from the power source?

The two most important things are distance and draw (amps).


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## Christian (Feb 23, 2004)

FREEPOP said:


> How far is the the barn from the power source?
> 
> The two most important things are distance and draw (amps).


Only about 25 ft.


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## direwolf23 (Jan 7, 2008)

Christian said:


> I want to run electricity to my pole barn. I want to have 8 lights (6 inside 2 outside), 4 outlets and an outlet for a garage door opener. What size wire is needed to run to the circuit breaker? How many breakers? I have the basic knowledge of wiring. Any input will be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks



It may seem trivial now but be sure to put this through a conduit and, if you have the materials, pull a phone, cat5, and coax cable at the same time (although some shielding will be necessary). Even if you don't plan on using them right away, it is worth the extra few $ to put them in. For the wire, 12-2 UF should do the trick. 10-2 if you are worried about future heavy loads. 

My disclaimer is that I am not an expert per say, but I do work with one on matters like this on a regular basis.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Current draw is the next biggest thing. Garage door opener is what 1/2 hp. Do you plan on running a compressor, A/C, freezer etc. add all the amperage requirements together.


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## roger23 (Jan 14, 2001)

I would go with the biggest wire you can afford and your breaker panel will handle once you get power to it,I am sure you will want to add stuff


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Roger is correct. If it were me, I'd get a 100amp box and run #2. Do it right once and you'll never have to mess with it. You may not have to buy all the breakers now, but you can add on. If you bury it, I believe code is 2 foot in our area. Add a line for a phone as well, maybe some extra wires for a control for the door opener also.


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## MSUICEMAN (Jan 9, 2002)

do not just use the cable that says it can be buried.... put it in conduit. I talked to an electrician about just this thing, and he says that he always recommends the conduit and has to replace a lot of the cables that are buried alone.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

The nice thing about conduit is that you can put some rope in to pull more stuff, cable tv, more door opener wire, etc.
I've had mine in for 15 years, direct burial has been around a long time just make sure you'll never ever have to dig there, phone, gas, etc.


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## snowman11 (Nov 21, 2006)

You can't run phone/internet/cable lines in the same conduit as power lines. Definately can't run gas in the same conduit.

I used #2 direct burial aluminum, I'll be surprised as heck if that were to somehow get broken simply because it's not in conduit.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

snowman11 said:


> You can't run phone/internet/cable lines in the same conduit as power lines. Definately can't run gas in the same conduit.
> 
> I used #2 direct burial aluminum, I'll be surprised as heck if that were to somehow get broken simply because it's not in conduit.


Didn't know that was against code,but you have to dig a hole and you can have more than one run of conduit.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

I used aluminum too, never again.


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## snowman11 (Nov 21, 2006)

I ran two runs of conduit...one 1 1/2 is currently empty (for later expansion). One is just the conduit drops on both ends, with the wires themselves directly buried.

If it was me, I'd run two conduit runs from the house to the garage in 1 1/2" pvc. I'd then run three pieces of #12 and one piece of #14...all copper, THWN. That will get him two 110 circuits at 20 amps each with ground, but room to expand at a later date if needed...WITHOUT digging that dang trench!


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

I'll stick with my suggetion of a service panel, but would go with #4 copper. Everything is nice and neat with breakers and a main, it also gives him 220. THough you could get that with 2-12's


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## soggybtmboys (Feb 24, 2007)

If you are putting a subpanel out in your barn, you will also have to drive two ground rods 6 ft apart. If you put it into conduit, you will also have to pull a ground with it and bond your neutral with your ground bar in the panel. Use copper if you can get your hands on it, don't play with aluminum, especially under ground....it will corrode, and even in conduit it will get wet. Use a direct burial cable even in the conduit or a cable/wires suitable for wet locations. If you throw it in conduit and not run a ground wire that is bonded, your pipe will carry current....thats a no no.

My professional opinion, is to go with a 100 amp panel for your garage, it will leave you room to expand. Consequently, if you end up running water line to your garage as well, you will also have to bond the water pipes to the grounding system.

Also, be sure if and make sure you have either your conduit/ uf cable buried deep enough to meet minimal code requirements.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Good info Soggy


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## soggybtmboys (Feb 24, 2007)

Thanks Freepop, good to see you.

My bad though, looking thru my code book again, I was mistaken, if you run a ground out in the conduit...do not bond your neutral with the grounding bus.....only bond if you run not in conduit. Sorry bout the confusion.


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## WAR EAGLE (Apr 7, 2006)

NEC only requires 1 ground rod so depending on your local authority you may only need 1. also assuming your main service panel has the neutral bonded to the case you NEVER bond it again at the sub panel, and if you pull a ground wire to the sub panel it must be inside the same pipe as the feeder wires.


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## soggybtmboys (Feb 24, 2007)

WAR EAGLE said:


> NEC only requires 1 ground rod so depending on your local authority you may only need 1. also assuming your main service panel has the neutral bonded to the case you NEVER bond it again at the sub panel, and if you pull a ground wire to the sub panel it must be inside the same pipe as the feeder wires.


 
NEC requires that you have 25 ohms or less to ground, unless you have the necessary testing equipment (expensive) to prove to local authority...you are pretty much cornered into running two ground rods.Have gone round and round with inspectors on this one. Run two and you will have no problems with local inspectors.

Why would anyone run their ground outside of the conduit if you are pulling underground feeders? Never heard of anyone doing this.

The only time you will bond a sub panel is if you run a three wire feeder without a ground to the sub panel....in that case you are indeed required to bond at the sub panel.


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## WAR EAGLE (Apr 7, 2006)

soggybtmboys said:


> NEC requires that you have 25 ohms or less to ground, unless you have the necessary testing equipment (expensive) to prove to local authority...you are pretty much cornered into running two ground rods.Have gone round and round with inspectors on this one. Run two and you will have no problems with local inspectors.
> 
> Why would anyone run their ground outside of the conduit if you are pulling underground feeders? Never heard of anyone doing this.
> 
> The only time you will bond a sub panel is if you run a three wire feeder without a ground to the sub panel....in that case you are indeed required to bond at the sub panel.


 
Inspectors local to me typicaly only require 1 ground rod.

I don't know why anyone would run a ground outside of the conduit either, I thought thats what you were saying, looking back I see you were not saying that.

I guess to be more specific, wether it's in conduit or not, you don't bond as long as you have a ground wire or if you use metal conduit ( and do not have a ground wire). and I'm not sure if you can buy UF cable without a ground...can you?


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