# Muzzleloader Season Weapon of Choice?



## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Those in zone 1 & 2 have no choice but what about those in zone 3? What are you hunting with?

I’m hunting in Ohio with my Johnston Ultimate BP Express Ultra now and will be using it next week in zone 1.


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## Shawnxbow (Sep 29, 2020)

350


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## skipper34 (Oct 13, 2005)

44 mag


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## HUBBHUNTER (Aug 8, 2007)

450 but thinking I might get the muzzy out for next weekend. I'm in doe mode until the end of the season and my muzzy has killed more deer than any gun I own.


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## Tracker83 (Jun 21, 2005)

.300 win mag


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## Biggbear (Aug 14, 2001)

I guess I'm getting old, but my weapon of choice for muzzleloader season is a muzzleloader. My TC Encore Pro Hunter, and the TC New Englander will both get their chance to let some smoke roll over the next 10 days. The New Englander is open sights, but I just had cataract surgery on Wednesday so I can actually shoot it again! Lol!


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## crossneyes (Sep 26, 2005)

I put up the 350 and grabbed the cva 44mag! Have not shot one with it yet!


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## Cjoform (Dec 3, 2020)

CVA Scout 44 magnum. Speer 270gr Deep Curl reloads.


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

In sticking with the spirit of muzzleloader season, I am going to pull out Black Betty


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

I got billy bawrue. Billy billy billy. My Omega is a tack driver. Have a triump also but not as confident with that one. Maybe need to shoot it more.


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## d_rek (Nov 6, 2013)

Since I don’t own a muzzy I’ll be out with the 350


Sent from d_mobile


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## reddog1 (Jan 24, 2009)

Traditions Pursuit w/3x9 Nikon purchased in 2014 and I haven't missed a deer since.


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## docbas (Dec 27, 2013)

My cheap CVA .45 cal muzzleloader works just fine for me.


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## snortwheeze (Jul 31, 2012)

HUBBHUNTER said:


> 450 but thinking I might get the muzzy out for next weekend. I'm in doe mode until the end of the season and my muzzy has killed more deer than any gun I own.


Mine as well...Just have to go shoot it then I'll switch, today good ol 870


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## mofo (Oct 9, 2009)

My 450


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

I'll still be using my old TC Renegade it's my doe killer unless horns show up.


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## Skibum (Oct 3, 2000)

Bowtech Revolt X. I might get my old T/C Renegade out for old times sake.


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## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

I don’t have a choice in the U P, but even if I did I would still be hunting with my muzzle loader. C’Mon Man!! It’s muzzle loader season. Hunting with anything other than a muzzle loader is like taking your sister to the prom! SMH


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## JasonSlayer (Aug 4, 2009)

Tracker83 said:


> .300 win mag


Nice hahaha, I think you better put that back in the closet.


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

Might not be fun if the CO sees it.


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## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

On standby in case I need to shoot two at the same time


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## Biggbear (Aug 14, 2001)

Wild Thing said:


> I don’t have a choice in the U P, but even if I did I would still be hunting with my muzzle loader. C’Mon Man!! It’s muzzle loader season. Hunting with anything other than a muzzle loader is like taking your sister to the prom! SMH


Wait what? That was a bad thing? Hey what can I say, she was a great dancer.


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

We're using single shot .350's & .450's, same as firearm season. There isn't any scenario in existence where a muzzleloader would be my weapon choice, starting with the fact that I like to see what a deer does after the shot rather than guess because my vision is obscured by smoke. I fully support the any weapon option in zone 3 and hope they never go back to muzzleloader only.


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## shooter (Feb 9, 2001)

Wild Thing said:


> On standby in case I need to shoot two at the same time
> 
> View attachment 612037


I like your bullet starter Wild thing,what brand is that? I’m shooting a old 58 caliber CVA myself


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

Then why not just extend rifle season another 10 days?


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## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

shooter said:


> I like your bullet starter Wild thing,what brand is that? I’m shooting a old 58 caliber CVA myself


it is a Spin Jag. It spins with the rifling. I have one that goes on my ramrod also but it doesn’t match up well with this particular Barnes bullet so I am using the Barnes Aligner Tool for now.


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## skipper34 (Oct 13, 2005)

I have to assume the NRC will be voting that in next year.


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## Tracker83 (Jun 21, 2005)

JasonSlayer said:


> Nice hahaha, I think you better put that back in the closet.





Martin Looker said:


> Might not be fun if the CO sees it.


why? I'm in zone 3 and above the rifle line


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## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

Different strokes for different folks I guess NS. There isn’t a scenario in the world where I would use a center fire rifle during “Muzzle Loader” season. I mean... isn’t that what muzzle loaders are for?

why don’t we just start using center fire rifles during Archery season as well?


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## honker99 (Aug 30, 2004)

30.06 for me. My county is in the any legal firearms zone. 

As for @wildthing I'm pretending I'm from Alabama for the evening


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## JasonSlayer (Aug 4, 2009)

Tracker83 said:


> why? I'm in zone 3 and above the rifle line


Ok, I may have misspoke, you may be right. As unclear as the rules have been this season I'd be worried about testing the waters. If you feel confident doing it, I hope you shoot a nice one.


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## Lazy-J (Apr 11, 2019)

November Sunrise said:


> We're using single shot .350's & .450's, same as firearm season. There isn't any scenario in existence where a muzzleloader would be my weapon choice, starting with the fact that I like to see what a deer does after the shot rather than guess because my vision is obscured by smoke. I fully support the any weapon option in zone 3 and hope they never go back to muzzleloader only.


Just curious...what is or was the rational/ logic for allowing any legal weapon for zone 3 muzzy season? I'm not against the new rule and do not see a big impact on the deer harvest. Just wondering how what started as a primitive weapon's season 40 + yrs ago has evolved into a 10 day extension of rifle season. I will be hunting with my TC encore 50 cal mostly due to tradition. Perhaps the new rule will allow more hunters with unfilled tags more opportunity for success.


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

November Sunrise said:


> We're using single shot .350's & .450's, same as firearm season. There isn't any scenario in existence where a muzzleloader would be my weapon choice, starting with the fact that I like to see what a deer does after the shot rather than guess because my vision is obscured by smoke. I fully support the any weapon option in zone 3 and hope they never go back to muzzleloader only.


You're missing out, there's nothing like choking down a mouth full of pyrodex smoke first thing in the morning. :lol:


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Wild Thing said:


> Different strokes for different folks I guess NS. There isn’t a scenario in the world where I would use a center fire rifle during “Muzzle Loader” season. I mean... isn’t that what muzzle loaders are for?
> 
> why don’t we just start using center fire rifles during Archery season as well?


Late archery opened December 1st so we do during later antlerless season.


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## Tracker83 (Jun 21, 2005)

JasonSlayer said:


> Ok, I may have misspoke, you may be right. As unclear as the rules have been this season I'd be worried about testing the waters. If you feel confident doing it, I hope you shoot a nice one.


okay, you scared me for a minute as I looked down at the rifle on my lap. To me the rule is 100% clear, so I don't feel like I'm testing any waters.. in fact, where I'm at this isn't even a new rule - was this way last season and maybe even prior to that.


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## onebad800 (Apr 28, 2003)

My TC Omega .50!! Haven’t used it in while but kids do occasionally for youth hunt.


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## Milosh (Dec 28, 2018)

sparky18181 said:


> I got billy bawrue. Billy billy billy. My Omega is a tack driver. Have a triump also but not as confident with that one. Maybe need to shoot it more.


This deserves more upvotes!!


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## junkman (Jan 14, 2010)

IMG_0024




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junkman


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Dec 7, 2016




Muzzy deer









  








scoped 700




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junkman


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Mar 5, 2014




scoped 700





Probly use my Remington 700 50 cal and take along my Traditions Deer hunter cutdown 50 cal for back up.


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## Milosh (Dec 28, 2018)

450BM doe hunting.


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## johnhunter247 (Mar 12, 2011)

Martin Looker said:


> Then why not just extend rifle season another 10 days?


Agree 100%! Why are they calling it muzzleloader season? Why not just make gun season go another ten days. Heck why not just open deer season 12 months a year and weapon of choice 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Then all the flood light hunters wouldn’t be breaking the law anymore. Think of all the time and paperwork it would save dnr officers. Heck we wouldn’t even need them. The only law they need is anything goes! Buy as many deer tags as you can afford and keep filling the nrc pockets with no good management practices. If their goal is making the insurance companies happy I’m sure they would appreciate that! The reasoning for all the extra seasons is always more opportunities afield. How could you possibly beat 24/7/365?


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Wild Thing said:


> Ah Ha.... So you did take your sister to the prom!


Twice!


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Chessieman said:


> So just because you guys over there in the *CONTAMINATED DEER* area that must get rid of all deer think the rest of us must suffer like you. Do you even own a Muzzle Loader? Just a extension of gun season is what has been in the past for you. For us that have been enjoying it the calm down pressure from gun season it is a different hunt all together. Oh yea, those Muzzle Loaders have not been shooting enough does. Those can shoot them after the ML season ends by the way, we are bad. Sure treat us like kids, slap us, we want you to kill *NOW DO NOT WAIT!*


I own a muzzle loader in the contamination zone.
It's had thousands of rounds run through it. Spanish kit I built and started going to shoots with for years. Shoots where you'd encounter folks that could outshoot many centerfire owners in similar competition. Can you cut playing cards with their edge facing you? Cut strings? 
I'll spare you the original intent of a muzzle loading season. We're so far beyond it that it don't matter anyways.
There's other muzzle loaders here too. And others have come and gone.
Killing a deer with one is not less likely for me. And it would be close range.

I sat with a centerfire rifle last evening.
Enjoyed the heck out of it.
Left the deer in range alone.

Not a fan of such a long season of centerfire. But I still participated. 
Part of it is the novelty of it.
My season can end other years if we get a couple inches of snow.
So I'm just enjoying being out there still.
If I touch off the muzzle loader to unload it , I have to clean it before going to bed.
Or , I could pull the ball and dump the powder. Broke my last homemade puller though...
Still , prefer to clean after pulling a load.


No , I don't want all the deer killed. A few will squeak through though. Usually.


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## Flight of the arrow (Feb 11, 2008)

I’m not hunting until next weekend, the farm went dead so it’s getting a 2 week break.The cameras are just starting to wake back up with deer But when I’m ready they boys are always ready.
Flight


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## johnhunter247 (Mar 12, 2011)

Dish7 said:


> View attachment 612363


That ml is too pretty to take it out in the woods and scratch it up. Beautiful stock. Here is mine. I’ve posted pics of it before.


















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## wildcoy73 (Mar 2, 2004)

JasonSlayer said:


> Ok, I may have misspoke, you may be right. As unclear as the rules have been this season I'd be worried about testing the waters. If you feel confident doing it, I hope you shoot a nice one.


Zone 3 and the limited firearm area, are not the same. I am in north kent County and the 308 is with me today.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## wildcoy73 (Mar 2, 2004)

Chessieman said:


> So just because you guys over there in the *CONTAMINATED DEER* area that must get rid of all deer think the rest of us must suffer like you. Do you even own a Muzzle Loader? Just a extension of gun season is what has been in the past for you. For us that have been enjoying it the calm down pressure from gun season it is a different hunt all together. Oh yea, those Muzzle Loaders have not been shooting enough does. Those can shoot them after the ML season ends by the way, we are bad. Sure treat us like kids, slap us, we want you to kill *NOW DO NOT WAIT!*


Yes I own a true muzzle loader and hunt the core area. 
I strongly believe we need to go back to a true muzzle loader season as intended. No inlines or scopes.

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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

Half of them wouldn't know how to make them work.


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

Starting with the 450. I might get the .54 Renegade out at some point this month just because I like that gun and have used it since it was new in 1985. My eyes and open sights are limited to about 50 yards with good lighting. Used to be over double that. Gun has nice square front and rear sights or I would be done.


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## Slimits (Jun 30, 2014)

Wont see the affects for s couple years. But surely this will not help michigan buck numbers or age structure. I have not personally taked to a single person in favor of what they did. Who does the dnr think they are pleasing beaide insurance conpanies?


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## Jeffish74 (Sep 24, 2017)

johnhunter247 said:


> Agree 100%! Why are they calling it muzzleloader season? Why not just make gun season go another ten days. Heck why not just open deer season 12 months a year and weapon of choice 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Then all the flood light hunters wouldn’t be breaking the law anymore. Think of all the time and paperwork it would save dnr officers. Heck we wouldn’t even need them. The only law they need is anything goes! Buy as many deer tags as you can afford and keep filling the nrc pockets with no good management practices. If their goal is making the insurance companies happy I’m sure they would appreciate that! The reasoning for all the extra seasons is always more opportunities afield. How could you possibly beat 24/7/365?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Then just need a rule similar to fish no more than 2 in the freezer.


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

Slimits said:


> Wont see the affects for s couple years. But surely this will not help michigan buck numbers or age structure. I have not personally taked to a single person in favor of what they did. Who does the dnr think they are pleasing beaide insurance conpanies?


Amen! This ridiculous any gun structure has been in place for several years where we hunt in Eaton, Calhoun, and Hillsdale counties and the impact on buck age structure has been devastating. The slaughter that has occurred here is now going to spread throughout the SLP. Hope the stinken DNR & insurance companies are happy!!


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

Just heard my 4th shot in 2 days. Ain’t gonna be a deer alive by the time this carnage is done!!


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## Jeffish74 (Sep 24, 2017)

Dish7 said:


> View attachment 612363





johnhunter247 said:


> That ml is too pretty to take it out in the woods and scratch it up. Beautiful stock.
> 
> 
> 
> ...











It’s a gun but the the stock is what makes these look soo nice. I get her out hunting about once a year. Nice pick on the gun you got!


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## ckosal (May 20, 2013)

Had to sit out this weekend, but next will be using my ML (Ultimate Black Widow). I do want to use my .450 gamebreaker for late doe season though. 

And.. a text from my neighbor said that there are a lot of hunters afield compared to traditional muzzy season rules. One place isnt a statistical sample, but i do think it will have the impact (and is having) of extending the season for many.


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## Old lund (Apr 20, 2016)

November Sunrise said:


> This change is causing you to "suffer? LOL - your drama is well noted but the fact remains that in recent years a number of SLP counties have already been following this any weapon structure and it just hasn't had any meaningful impact on hunting pressure, deer killed, etc.
> 
> I understand that it's a requirement for some MS members to whine about regulatory changes but to claim that this structure is resulting in some meaningful change in hunting pressure is pure emotionalism. The reason that muzzleloader season participation is always much lower than firearm is not because getting a muzzleloader is some big barrier to entry for most hunters. The reason participation is lower is because many hunters have already taken a deer or two and that's enough for them. And for many who haven't gotten anything yet they're not driven to keep going afield after several months of previous hunting opportunities.
> 
> The amount of hunters who go afield in December will always be much lower than November firearm season, regardless of which weapon those December hunters can use.


I agree with this muzzy season has always been slow hunter wise normally the weather is twice as bad as regular gun and most have got at least one deer and got holidays coming and things to do before hand . I doubt there will be a big increase in participation this year even with the any weapon change . I normally go out just because I can and want one last deer not this year got enough by 4 days into gun season I’m good for the year . I’ve been outside quite a bit and haven’t been hearing much shooting going on for second week of gun season


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## mofo (Oct 9, 2009)

Joe Archer said:


> I'm out with the only legal firearm that I have for zone 3. 12 guage Remington 870 pump.
> First time ever I hunted during a muzzle loader season with a gun.
> Why not?
> <----<<<


Boy that 870 kicks like a mule had one and used it for years always busted my face up getting to close to the scope lol


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## IceHog (Nov 23, 2007)

Wild Thing said:


> Different strokes for different folks I guess NS. There isn’t a scenario in the world where I would use a center fire rifle during “Muzzle Loader” season. I mean... isn’t that what muzzle loaders are for?
> 
> why don’t we just start using center fire rifles during Archery season as well?


Can't agree more, this any weapon in zone 3 is complete BS in my opinion. The ignorance of our leadership never ceases to amaze me, might as well just have anything goes deer season Mid-September thru December.


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

It sounds like some people up here in zone 2 think we also any weapon.


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

30/06


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## IceHog (Nov 23, 2007)

Michigan has never had a sound deer management plan, why start now. I truly wonder how many other states change regulations willy-nilly like Michigan, can't imagine many do. I'll never be convinced that this won't have a significant impact on the herd.


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## lreigler (Dec 23, 2009)

I’m a bit torn on it. On one hand, my personal agenda is to dislike regulations that make it easier to kill young bucks, in this case by extending firearms through muzzleloader. 
However with that said, advancements in muzzleloaders in the past ten years make the difference in firearms vs muzzle very little. I could argue I am more lethal with my muzzle than my 44mag. I know for fact that the longest shot I’ve killed a deer with in the past five years was my muzzle (143 yards)


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## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

DirtySteve said:


> My uncles who taught me to muzzle load use patch and ball Hawkins style rifles that they built as kits. Not flintlocks but percussion caps. They tease me about being a cheater because I use an inline style T/C thunderhawk with a percussion cap and saboted bullets.





Fool'em said:


> I killed a doe once with a borrowed flintlock. It was fun, so I had to get my own. I haven’t taken mine out yet.
> Makes you feel like a real mountain man when your carrying a flintlock on a cold snowy dec hunt. Someday I’ll have my buckskin hunting clothes done and my deerskin moccasins so I can really get into it.


Now you guys are talkin. Stay away from those sissies who take their sisters to the prom. .50 Cal Hawken - the only way to go...

Signed - Yours truly,

Hatchet Jack


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

brushbuster said:


> One of these years I'm gonna build a flintlock and shoot a deer with it.. Been wanting to build one for years.


Do it.
Spend some extra time polishing the lock. 
I had one some one else built with a Siler lock on it polished by another gun builder friend of mine , that could fire upside down. That's darned good lock timing.44" barrel , a stock that would almost make you scream for it's lavish carving and inlays ect. She was pretty. But pretty is not what drops deer.
It looks wrong , but if you are going to shoot it alot , put a removable touchhole liner in it.
That well tuned flint rifle I tried on the hundred yard running deer target at a Manistee clubs shoot.
I held on it's nose thinking I needed to put a lead on it , and kept my swing going as I touched it off/followed through.
The deer was rewound behind the bunker and an orange sticker put on it where I hit it and ran back out for us to see.
He looked like Rudolf...

I have a " French Fusil " , built like one in the sixteen hundreds , smoothbore around twenty gauge I need to get shooting.
It will be a closer range proposition though.

Miss those shoots we used to hit regular . The comraderies were fun of course , but learning the ins and outs and hows and whys of care and feeding ect. went far in consistent success in shooting...
My point being , a good flintlock with a familiar user is a force to reckon with.


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

I'll be out this weekend with one of my 7mm centerfires, just as I have the last couple years during muzzy season.

Don't worry guys there will still be deer to hunt next year. I MIGHT feel differently if MI muzzy season had been round ball with no optical sights all along, but the difference between a modern inline and a centerfire is so small that it just doesn't matter. I pretty much guarantee that Luv2Hunt can outshoot me with his smokepole vs my 7mm-08 at 350 yards.


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## Slimits (Jun 30, 2014)

jatc said:


> I'll be out this weekend with one of my 7mm centerfires, just as I have the last couple years during muzzy season.
> 
> Don't worry guys there will still be deer to hunt next year. I MIGHT feel differently if MI muzzy season had been round ball with no optical sights all along, but the difference between a modern inline and a centerfire is so small that it just doesn't matter. I pretty much guarantee that Luv2Hunt can outshoot me with his smokepole vs my 7mm-08 at 350 yards.


Tell that to the guys shooting 3-4 times in a row on deer drives No muzzy will do that


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

November Sunrise said:


> This change is causing you to "suffer? LOL - your drama is well noted but the fact remains that in recent years a number of SLP counties have already been following this any weapon structure and it just hasn't had any meaningful impact on hunting pressure, deer killed, etc.
> 
> I understand that it's a requirement for some MS members to whine about regulatory changes but to claim that this structure is resulting in some meaningful change in hunting pressure is pure emotionalism. The reason that muzzleloader season participation is always much lower than firearm is not because getting a muzzleloader is some big barrier to entry for most hunters. The reason participation is lower is because many hunters have already taken a deer or two and that's enough for them. And for many who haven't gotten anything yet they're not driven to keep going afield after several months of previous hunting opportunities.
> 
> The amount of hunters who go afield in December will always be much lower than November firearm season, regardless of which weapon those December hunters can use.


Too many places for those does to hide in SLP, Metro Parks, cemeteries, golf courses, city parks, I-275 (saw a little 8 get smacked this morning).


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

Slimits said:


> Tell that to the guys shooting 3-4 times in a row on deer drives No muzzy will do that


Hopefully now those guys will actually finish those deer off rather than just gut shooting them and never finding them.


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

William H Bonney said:


> Too many places for those does to hide in SLP, Metro Parks, cemeteries, golf courses, city parks, I-275 (saw a little 8 get smacked this morning).


Amazing how much we have to rely on car/deer accidents to keep deer numbers at least mildly in check in some areas of the SLP, especially metro areas.


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

Slimits said:


> Tell that to the guys shooting 3-4 times in a row on deer drives No muzzy will do that


Now you're anxious about how many deer are killed on deer drives? You have my vote as the champion of straw man arguments - LOL.


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## NonTypicalCPA (Feb 16, 2007)

I didn't read all the posts, but I've been hunting with my Husqvarna. Been successful each time out!


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

NonTypicalCPA said:


> I didn't read all the posts, but I've been hunting with my Husqvarna. Been successful each time out!


I'm offended that you're using a power saw in what is supposed to be a traditional saw season.


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## Slimits (Jun 30, 2014)

November Sunrise said:


> Now you're anxious about how many deer are killed on deer drives? You have my vote as the champion of straw man arguments - LOL.


Well those are the situations where guys are unloading their guns on i feel.


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

Slimits said:


> Well those are the situations where guys are unloading their guns on i feel.


Yes, multiple shots is definite proof of deer drives gone wild. There is no other explanation for multiple gun shots. 

And considering how crazy popular deer drives are in 2020 (almost everyone does them) that's a BIG problem. I bet that for every 1 landowner who tries to attract deer to his property there are at least 50 who prefer to drive the deer off their property.


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## miruss (Apr 18, 2003)

Chessieman said:


> So just because you guys over there in the *CONTAMINATED DEER* area that must get rid of all deer think the rest of us must suffer like you. Do you even own a Muzzle Loader? Just a extension of gun season is what has been in the past for you. For us that have been enjoying it the calm down pressure from gun season it is a different hunt all together. Oh yea, those Muzzle Loaders have not been shooting enough does. Those can shoot them after the ML season ends by the way, we are bad. Sure treat us like kids, slap us, we want you to kill *NOW DO NOT WAIT!*


Yep own a TC OMEGA i have it sighted in at 100 YDS 1 " groups ! But i'll be using my 450 Scout because truthfully I'm to lazy to have to clean the Muzzy after shooting it !I used to use my muzzy all gun season from early to late season because it had the range and i was accurate with it ! Once they opened the lower to straight wall and could use it during muzzy season i went and bought my 450 why work harder if you don't have to!


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## Slimits (Jun 30, 2014)

November Sunrise said:


> Yes, multiple shots is definite proof of deer drives gone wild. There is no other explanation for multiple gun shots.
> 
> And considering how crazy popular deer drives are in 2020 (almost everyone does them) that's a BIG problem. I bet that for every 1 landowner who tries to attract deer to his property there are at least 50 who prefer to drive the deer off their property.


so if you feel so strongly that the dnr made the right decision in allowing this rule change whats your reasoning? What good does the change do? What was wrong with what we had? What benefits does the age structure of the buck herd get from it? An answer without extreme sarcasm requested.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

November Sunrise said:


> Amazing how much we have to rely on car/deer accidents to keep deer numbers at least mildly in check in some areas of the SLP, especially metro areas.


Just received a picture of one from a friend that is a candidate.


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## trucker3573 (Aug 29, 2010)

Probably won’t have time to get out but if I did it would be my ruger 44 mag carbine being from Livingston county. It’s a sweet rule as I bought a muzzle loader a few years back that was a POS. You literally couldn’t shoot it more than once without a complete bore cleaning. I do have and older t/c fire hawk that uses the tiny little primers. Never had a problem loading and shooting it but haven’t used it in years. Hopefully won’t ever have to in the future with the rule change. 


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

Slimits said:


> so if you feel so strongly that the dnr made the right decision in allowing this rule change whats your reasoning? What good does the change do? What was wrong with what we had? What benefits does the age structure of the buck herd get from it? An answer without extreme sarcasm requested.[/QUOTE
> 
> .


Deer management never has and never will revolve around "doing what we've always done." Those who are responsible for managing the SLP deer herd are navigating an ongoing decline in SLP hunter numbers and a disease that is going to continue to spread. As a result, they're going to maximize opportunities for hunters to be afield.

They made this "any weapon in muzzleloader season" change a number of years ago in several SLP counties. There's no evidence that it had any meaningful impact on buck age structure. They were pleased with the mild impact that it had on hunter participation in December and so they expanded it throughout the SLP.

It's a positive change whose impact on the deer herd is tiny at best


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## snortwheeze (Jul 31, 2012)

Luv2hunteup said:


> Just received a picture of one from a friend that is a candidate.
> 
> View attachment 613853


:tdo12:


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## Slimits (Jun 30, 2014)

November Sunrise said:


> Deer management never has and never will revolve around "doing what we've always done." Those who are responsible for managing the SLP deer herd are navigating an ongoing decline in SLP hunter numbers and a disease that is going to continue to spread. As a result, they're going to maximize opportunities for hunters to be afield.
> 
> They made this "any weapon in muzzleloader season" change a number of years ago in several SLP counties. There's no evidence that it had any meaningful impact on buck age structure. They were pleased with the mild impact that it had on hunter participation in December and so they expanded it throughout the SLP.
> 
> It's a positive change whose impact on the deer herd is tiny at best


Choked on deer hunter numbers shrinking. You do realize we are in the top three states of hunter numbers right? I dont understand the dnr wanting more hunters other than being money hungry. And this years licence sales alone puts alot more people in the woods which means more deer shot. We will agree to disagree on the cwd comment. Thats just an excuse to shoot more deer. Killing all the deer is not the answer to cwd. It will always be here Other states have realized that


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

If I were hunting down below......


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## 12970 (Apr 19, 2005)

Knight Disc Elite SS 50 Cal with a 3x9 x 44 Simmons with Blackhorn 209 B P Substitute
Newaygo1


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## MossyHorns (Apr 14, 2011)

I find it ironic that some of you are totally against the new Zone 3 Muzzloader firearm rule change and yet you totally support the use of crossbows during the archery season. It's basically the same argument. I have a feeling this new rule change is here to stay just like crossbows.


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## Slimits (Jun 30, 2014)

Ill just hunt out of state more. That is my short term cure all. Just a shame to see them do these changes as it seemed our buck quality was steadily increasing here in michigan.


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## unclecbass (Sep 29, 2005)




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## FullQuiver (May 2, 2006)

At this juncture in the season, I hardly believe the choice of tools is going to be the ending of deer hunting. Like some have already stated. Modern muzzleloaders have closed the gap between themselves and modern rifles as to make the difference insignificant. Quarreling about this is laughable at best and myopic at worst. The bigger issues being the availability of tags and length of seasons..


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

Slimits said:


> Ill just hunt out of state more. That is my short term cure all. Just a shame to see them do these changes as it seemed our buck quality was steadily increasing here in michigan.


Whatever you do don’t hunt Eaton, Calhoun, or Hillsdale counties. They started the any weapon in ML back in ‘18 here and it’s wiped out the older bucks. Taxidermists are barely keeping their doors open due to the December buck slaughter that occurred in ‘18 & ‘19.


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## Slimits (Jun 30, 2014)

November Sunrise said:


> Whatever you do don’t hunt Eaton, Calhoun, or Hillsdale counties. They started the any weapon in ML back in ‘18 here and it’s wiped out the older bucks. Taxidermists are barely keeping their doors open due to the December buck slaughter that occurred in ‘18 & ‘19.


Did they let hunters shoot bucks with a muzzleloader during late anterless season on public land those years? 
I used to hunt calhoun. Not any more. Had our fair share of trespassers and road hunters in our area that kept it from being great. But it is fantastic deer land down there for sure.


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

Slimits said:


> Did they let hunters shoot bucks with a muzzleloader during late anterless season on public land those years?


You're not paying close enough attention. ALL the bucks have already been wiped out from regular firearms being used in ML season. But if by some stroke of fate there is a lone antlered survivor we all know that the private land hunters will race to public land for an opportunity at him with a muzzleloader rather than archery hunting on private land. So now the one survivor becomes none and the bucks can't pass on their jeans to improve the health of the heard and we end up with buck to doe ratios of 20 to 1 (or more!).

It's all a money grab by the DNR. Did you know they're letting hunters use their combo tag on a doe killed with a firearm so that the hunter doesn't have to buy an additional antlerless tag? They're padding their pockets by intentionally decreasing how much we have to spend on licenses. Bunch of scammers.


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

November Sunrise said:


> You're not paying close enough attention. ALL the bucks have already been wiped out from regular firearms being used in ML season. But if by some stroke of fate there is a lone antlered survivor we all know that the private land hunters will race to public land for an opportunity at him with a muzzleloader rather than archery hunting on private land. So now the one survivor becomes none and the bucks can't pass on their jeans to improve the health of the heard and we end up with buck to doe ratios of 20 to 1 (or more!).
> 
> It's all a money grab by the DNR. Did you know they're letting hunters use their combo tag on a doe killed with a firearm so that the hunter doesn't have to buy an additional antlerless tag? They're padding their pockets by intentionally decreasing how much we have to spend on licenses. Bunch of scammers.


I would go slaughter a buck on public but I don’t have any buck tags left. Guess I’ll just stay on my private where that doesn’t matter.


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## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

unclecbass said:


> View attachment 613925


NICE R.U.M.!


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

jatc said:


> I would go slaughter a buck on public but I don’t have any buck tags left. Guess I’ll just stay on my private where that doesn’t matter.


Who wouldn't be up for that? What private land hunter doesn't dream of ditching private land opportunities in favor of hunting on lightly pressured SLP public land that's brimming with big bucks at the end of December? 

My recommendation for the tens of thousands who are going to be flooding onto public land is to show up early during those final few weeks of December or else run the risk of not being able to find a parking spot.


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

jatc said:


> I would go slaughter a buck on public but I don’t have any buck tags left. Guess I’ll just stay on my private where that doesn’t matter.


I bet there are not enough bucks frequenting Zone 3 public in most area for it to even be considered a slaughter, but don't worry, I will be out with my Muzzleloader that is sighted in for 200 yards trying to finish off the buck population


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

I’m using my smoke pole. The ol CVA Hunterbolt Mag that I got for my 16th birthday. Stainless barrel and black stock with a decent scope. It ain’t pretty anymore, but I love that gun. Spent years hunting and just shooting with it and it just plain ol shoots good. Sucks I can’t get my big fingers in there so I need a cap tool, but it ain’t all that bad if that is the worst of it. 

My wife is using her .270


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## Slimits (Jun 30, 2014)

November Sunrise said:


> You're not paying close enough attention. ALL the bucks have already been wiped out from regular firearms being used in ML season. But if by some stroke of fate there is a lone antlered survivor we all know that the private land hunters will race to public land for an opportunity at him with a muzzleloader rather than archery hunting on private land. So now the one survivor becomes none and the bucks can't pass on their jeans to improve the health of the heard and we end up with buck to doe ratios of 20 to 1 (or more!).
> 
> It's all a money grab by the DNR. Did you know they're letting hunters use their combo tag on a doe killed with a firearm so that the hunter doesn't have to buy an additional antlerless tag? They're padding their pockets by intentionally decreasing how much we have to spend on licenses. Bunch of scammers.


So in some weird way you are saying you agree with the dnr new rules then? I bet ud be first in line to sign up for gun for oct - jan then too wouldnt you?


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## fishnpbr (Dec 2, 2007)

Slimits, you could just go enjoy your out of state hunts and leave the slaughter to the rest of us. Just sayin.


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

Slimits said:


> So in some weird way you are saying you agree with the dnr new rules then? I bet ud be first in line to sign up for gun for oct - jan then too wouldnt you?


I think the new structure is fine. I think the people who are fretting about it are overreacting and in many cases lack a solid understanding of deer management. And I think people who make assertions about what we have now as being akin to a 3 month any weapon season are demonstrating themselves to not be well equipped for serious conversation. 

I think all of those things. But most importantly, I'm think I need to bow out of this thread, as clearly I'M AN IDIOT for getting sucked into debating the nonsense you keep spewing - lol.

Over and out.


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## miruss (Apr 18, 2003)

I really don't understand whats so hard to understand ! The DNR has come out and said the hunters are not killing enough deer so they are going to give hunters more chances to do it! If the hunters don't step up and start killing more deer expect more changes ! In 1998 michigan killed 597,980 deer in 2019 they killed 364,000 .


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## 1morebite (Apr 9, 2016)

And you can bet those numbers are highly accurate



miruss said:


> I really don't understand whats so hard to understand ! The DNR has come out and said the hunters are not killing enough deer so they are going to give hunters more chances to do it! If the hunters don't step up and start killing more deer expect more changes ! In 1998 michigan killed 597,980 deer in 2019 they killed 364,000 .


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## IceHog (Nov 23, 2007)

miruss said:


> I really don't understand whats so hard to understand ! The DNR has come out and said the hunters are not killing enough deer so they are going to give hunters more chances to do it! If the hunters don't step up and start killing more deer expect more changes ! In 1998 michigan killed 597,980 deer in 2019 they killed 364,000 .


Since when does the DNR know how many deer were killed in Michigan :coco: Only states with sound deer management practices have that data, Michigan hasn't a clue.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

stickbow shooter said:


> I'd bet there's alot using rifles right now.


I wouldn't count on that. They've had it in most newspapers up here to put the rifles up. What the boys have down below is not what we have up here. Muzzleloaders only during the dedicated muzzleloader season.

HOWEVER...... It was reported in the paper today that another cattle herd has been confirmed with bTB, which makes 3 for the year.
That said, if they opened it up like down below, I'd be using SML.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

I


ENCORE said:


> I wouldn't count on that. They've had it in most newspapers up here to put the rifles up. What the boys have down below is not what we have up here. Muzzleloaders only during the dedicated muzzleloader season.
> 
> HOWEVER...... It was reported in the paper today that another cattle herd has been confirmed with bTB, which makes 3 for the year.
> That said, if they opened it up like down below, I'd be using SML.


That sucks on the BTB. I've had a couple of discussions with guys that think it's ok to go with there rifles this year in the NW12.


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## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

MossyHorns said:


> Not much different than adding crossbows to the archery season.



View attachment 614361


Yup - reading between the lines on this thread it looks like a lot of folks are just looking for....


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

Wild Thing said:


> View attachment 614361
> 
> 
> Yup - reading between the lines on this thread it looks like a lot of folks are just looking for....
> ...


Yeah I kinda agree. I rank the fact that I use a compound bow and a rifle when legal just below the fact that I manipulate my land strictly to make it easier to kill mature animals.

I know I should do it the “right” way by burning boot leather and finding them where they already exist, but I just can’t help myself. I’ve been exposed for what I am I guess.


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## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

I think the primary point being made here by those who don’t really buy into this new muzzle loader season is that it is no longer a muzzle loader season. It is an “anthing goes” season. Let’s face it - the muzzle loader season in the affected counties has been eliminated. Why does the DNR continue to do the smoke and mirrors thing?

if the objective is to extend the deer season, make it easier for people to kill deer with whatever weapon they feel most comfortable with, increase the antlerless harvest or whatever ....FINE. Just don’t try to insult intelligent people by telling them it is a muzzle loader season when, in fact, it is anything but. Muzzleloader season in Zone 3 has been eliminated.


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## Old Shortstop (Jun 6, 2006)

I have gone back to the longbows and recurves for the month of December. I have a muzzleloader, shotguns and rifles that are legal in zone 3, but I hate the amount of pressure the deer are getting with the changes. The deer I saw last weekend were even more paranoid than I expected and no one had been on my place for a while. I had a decent 5x5 at 20 yards, but had no shot. I know I am limiting myself, but hell I am limiting myself anyway with the archery equipment I choose to use.

D.P.


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

The were cool and calm back here tonight. Had 14 wandering through the lanes. I think one has horns but with no scope and almost out of daylight I couldn't tell. Dang peep sights.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

If it’s just the name of the current season that bothers some it should be called what it is in zone 3. Low participation season.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Wild Thing said:


> View attachment 614361
> 
> 
> Yup - reading between the lines on this thread it looks like a lot of folks are just looking for....
> ...


Willing to admit that I have hit the easy button many times over the past 58 years of deer hunting.
Probably the 1st time was in '66 when the rifle line was moved south and I bought a rifle with a scope. Wow, it sure was easier to kill deer with this weapon instead of using my pheasant gun with buckshot and then 2 slugs.
1st year of bow hunting in '69 with a recurve. Compound in '79 sure did make it easier and then a crossbow in '09. 
Maybe the 2 biggest easy buttons were food plots and elevated coops for rifle hunting. Lure them in with food and shoot them when I'm out of the wind/rain/snow. I don't heat any of my coops.....I haven't hit that easy button yet. I do like the chair with cushioned seats and arm rests though. 
This is only a partial list of things on my easy button list. Pretty much every purchase and move I make ups my odds of seeing the kind of deer I want to put in the freezer and also put their antlers on a wall.

L & O


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## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

Liver and Onions said:


> Willing to admit that I have hit the easy button many times over the past 58 years of deer hunting.
> Probably the 1st time was in '66 when the rifle line was moved south and I bought a rifle with a scope. Wow, it sure was easier to kill deer with this weapon instead of using my pheasant gun with buckshot and then 2 slugs.
> 1st year of bow hunting in '69 with a recurve. Compound in '79 sure did make it easier and then a crossbow in '09.
> Maybe the 2 biggest easy buttons were food plots and elevated coops for rifle hunting. Lure them in with food and shoot them when I'm out of the wind/rain/snow. I don't heat any of my coops.....I haven't hit that easy button yet. I do like the chair with cushioned seats and arm rests though.
> ...


Yep - I’ve done a lot of those progressive improvements along the way also...but do you still call it a “Muzzle Loader” season when you can also use a center fire rifle during the same season? I don’t think so.

A dedicated muzzle loader season in those counties no longer exists. It has been eliminated for the sake of making things easier and less challenging, which I think is very unfortunate for those who have enjoyed having a season of their own (even if for only 10 days) with maybe a few less hunters in the woods while toting just a little more primitive weapon of choice.


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## Oak (Oct 12, 2020)

My choice is 350 Legend, it will do the job.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Wild Thing said:


> Yep - I’ve done a lot of those progressive improvements along the way also...but do you still call it a “Muzzle Loader” season when you can also use a center fire rifle during the same season?
> .........


Nope extended gun. The intent is to lower deer numbers in the SLP. Probably working, especially with the mild weather that we have enjoyed.

L & O


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## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

Liver and Onions said:


> *Nope extended gun.* The intent is to lower deer numbers in the SLP. Probably working, especially with the mild weather that we have enjoyed.
> 
> L & O


That is probably what I would call it too...anything but Muzzle Loader season, which it isn't anymore.


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## buckwacker 48097 (Nov 11, 2010)

Took out my high school graduation present to hunt with tonight... Smith and Wesson 6 shooter in .357 8 3/8'' barrel. Killed a few with it over the years... 33 years to be exact.


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## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

Wild Thing said:


> Yep - I’ve done a lot of those progressive improvements along the way also...but do you still call it a “Muzzle Loader” season when you can also use a center fire rifle during the same season? I don’t think so.
> 
> A dedicated muzzle loader season in those counties no longer exists. It has been eliminated for the sake of making things easier and less challenging, which I think is very unfortunate for those who have enjoyed having a season of their own* (even if for only 10 days)* with maybe a few less hunters in the woods while toting just a little more primitive weapon of choice.


No we *HAD* a 14 day season we lost and a different start day then you guys in the upper zones. We use to go up to the UP for your starter then come back to the warm weather and start hunting down here. Yep, we lost a lot!


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## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

Too bad Chessieman. I feel for you guys down below ... and hope they don't entertain the notion of passing similar regs up here.


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

I thought this was a thread about which weapon you are using during this season because up here in 2 it's still muzzle loader season. If you want to rent why don't you start your own thread?


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

The goal of the NRC/DNR in zone 3 is herd reduction. The result was 7 days less of buck hunting with a firearm. That should balance out the extra take by hunters using a centerfire rifle vs their $89 front stuffer that doesn’t get practiced with until the day before season.


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## Mole Hill (Jul 15, 2020)

Will be hunting with the widow recurve for the remaining season. Would like colder weather but still seeing deer just not the right one. Our area is slowly turning into an archery zone making for some great hunting.


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## mjh4 (Feb 2, 2018)

Old school (TC New Englander 50cal Patch & ball). Next three days anyways!


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


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## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

Martin Looker said:


> I thought this was a thread about which weapon you are using during this season because up here in 2 it's still muzzle loader season. If you want to rent why don't you start your own thread?


You talking to me Martin Looker?


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

All of the people whining about the hunting in zone 3.


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## AntiHuntersLoveMe (Apr 18, 2012)

The 450









Sent from my SM-S727VL using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

stickbow shooter said:


> I'd bet there's alot using rifles right now.


I’m just on the line. I have been hunting in zone 2 and have seen the DNR a few times already this week. Haven’t been checked but they are around. I have also heard a few quick shots that didn’t sound like a ML. My guess is there are a few that either don’t know where the line is or think it’s ok, possibly don’t care. 

i will be hunting below the line after Sunday with my ML still on public land.


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## miruss (Apr 18, 2003)

Luv2hunteup said:


> The goal of the NRC/DNR in zone 3 is herd reduction. The result was 7 days less of buck hunting with a firearm. That should balance out the extra take by hunters using a centerfire rifle vs their $89 front stuffer that doesn’t get practiced with until the day before season.


Got a 8pt tonight with the 450 at 140yds could have did the same thing with my TC OMEGA but all i had to do when i got home was wipe down the Scout and run a couple patches down the barrel ! Think my ML was more then $89 i know the scope i have no it was more then that!


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## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

Martin Looker said:


> I thought this was a thread about which weapon you are using during this season because up here in 2 it's still muzzle loader season. If you want to rent why don't you start your own thread?


*So you are not going to RENT *(rant)* when it happens to you in your zone?*



Martin Looker said:


> All of the people whining about the *hunting in zone 3*.


Yep, we use to have a special quite time that us Muzzle Loaders and the bow hunters enjoyed before the filling of the freezers start for the late anterless. Just because we have more deer down here, you do not think we have to hunt them?


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## SchekRN (Aug 23, 2014)

Wild Thing said:


> On standby in case I need to shoot two at the same time
> 
> View attachment 612037


Love the Spinjag starter!!


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## BillBuster (Apr 25, 2005)

A .50 cal. CVA Apex. The only deer rifle I own.


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## bigdoedown (May 29, 2009)

Too many gun seasons in MI period... thats why we are one of the worst states for older buck harvest quite honestly.... Make everything easier for the snowflakes...


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

It isn't easier on my place. I'm seeing lots of deer put no horns during hunting hours. I have a couple nice ones coming through just after dark but not when I can shoot.


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## buckwacker 48097 (Nov 11, 2010)

Just took the top of the heart off a nice doe at 40 yards with the .357! The old graduation present strikes again...


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## Lov2hunt257 (Jan 30, 2019)

I get out my win model 71 lever gun in 348cal its all about having fun !!!!!


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## salinehunter (Nov 20, 2008)

Wild Thing said:


> View attachment 614361
> 
> 
> Yup - reading between the lines on this thread it looks like a lot of folks are just looking for....
> ...


And I thought I was just following the stated rules for the season. I now realize that my choice of legal weapon for December was really just a reflection of my low moral standards and propensity to alway take the “easy” way out in life. In fact, I looked back at some of my trail cam pics from last week and there I was, in plain view, setting the low bar and not even feeling shame in the moment. I’m coming clean. It starts by admitting you have problem right. I’m salinehunter and I read and follow the hunting digest for season dates, bag limits, and legal weapons. If you’re reading this from zone 3 and did, virtuously, carry afield your muzzleloader this December as if there was no rule change for 2020, stay strong. Walk the narrow, fight the good fight and learn from me. You don’t want this pain.


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## Bucman (Jun 29, 2016)

salinehunter said:


> And I thought I was just following the stated rules for the season. I now realize that my choice of legal weapon for December was really just a reflection of my low moral standards and propensity to alway take the “easy” way out in life. In fact, I looked back at some of my trail cam pics from last week and there I was, in plain view, setting the low bar and not even feeling shame in the moment. I’m coming clean. It starts by admitting you have problem right. I’m salinehunter and I read and follow the hunting digest for season dates, bag limits, and legal weapons. If you’re reading this from zone 3 and did, virtuously, carry afield your muzzleloader this December as if there was no rule change for 2020, stay strong. Walk the narrow, fight the good fight and learn from me. You don’t want this pain.
> 
> View attachment 618847


Dude its no big deal... As long as its legal do you. If I hadn't already filled tags I would have used every advantage available. That said I don't really feel I need a second shot if I do my part. 
There's something to be said about unleashing a cannon and seeing the cloud of death that spews from it!


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## Bucman (Jun 29, 2016)

Here's one of them death clouds!

Partner said "I KNOW THAT WAS YOU I SEE THE SMOKE ON THE CAMERA" lol


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## Brian W. (Dec 10, 2002)

Wrist rocket for me.
I can drive an iron ore pellet clean through one side of a Maxwell House can leaving a nice dent on the other, using all its energy inside the can.
Reload much faster than my TC.


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## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

salinehunter said:


> And I thought I was just following the stated rules for the season. I now realize that my choice of legal weapon for December was really just a reflection of my low moral standards and propensity to alway take the “easy” way out in life. In fact, I looked back at some of my trail cam pics from last week and there I was, in plain view, setting the low bar and not even feeling shame in the moment. I’m coming clean. It starts by admitting you have problem right. I’m salinehunter and I read and follow the hunting digest for season dates, bag limits, and legal weapons. If you’re reading this from zone 3 and did, virtuously, carry afield your muzzleloader this December as if there was no rule change for 2020, stay strong. Walk the narrow, fight the good fight and learn from me. You don’t want this pain.
> 
> View attachment 618847


Love the pic of the Easy Button saline hunter!

Actually, if you read all of my posts you realize of course that I was making a little fun of the easy button and those who choose to use centerfire rifles over muzzle loaders during the "Muzzle Loader" season - I know most of you didn't actually take your sister to the prom . I recognize that it is perfectly legal and do not take issue with those who hunt legally. Moreover though...I was lamenting the fact that the DNR has eliminated the traditional muzzle loader season as we have known it for many years.


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

That wrist rocket with 3/4".ball bearing will stagger a really big bear. I hit one right behind the ear with one up in the old Lac La Belle dump about 40 years ago and actually staggered him. After that he hauled a** out of there every time a car came in.


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## Brian W. (Dec 10, 2002)

Martin Looker said:


> That wrist rocket with 3/4".ball bearing will stagger a really big bear. I hit one right behind the ear with one up in the old Lac La Belle dump about 40 years ago and actually staggered him. After that he hauled a** out of there every time a car came in.



Yup, you don't want one of them cracking you in the forehead.
We used to pick up the ore pellets off the RR tracks in the U.P. They made good sling shot ammo.

LMAO


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

I have several pails of iron ore balls that the kids picked up years ago. They still come by to pick up a bunch to play with.


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## chuckinduck (May 28, 2003)

I’m still using the same Remington 700 I’ve used for the last 20 years. Not as easy to clean as the new setups but it’s always shot great. I won this gun when I attended LSSU. I was one foot out the door to head home for Xmas break when one the RA’s asked if I wanted to buy a gun raffle ticket for his fire departments raffle. Being a broke college kid I only wanted one as they were a dollar each. He couldn’t break a $5 bill which was all I had. So I bought 5. Probably a smart choice looking back. Btw. The stock is one I made this spring during the start of covid. It was one of those 80% finished stocks. But between the customizing and re-shaping/detailing and sealing it still took about 50 hours. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

chuckinduck said:


> View attachment 618889
> 
> I’m still using the same Remington 700 I’ve used for the last 20 years. Not as easy to clean as the new setups but it’s always shot great. I won this gun when I attended LSSU. I was one foot out the door to head home for Xmas break when one the RA’s asked if I wanted to buy a gun raffle ticket for his fire departments raffle. Being a broke college kid I only wanted one as they were a dollar each. He couldn’t break a $5 bill which was all I had. So I bought 5. Probably a smart choice looking back. Btw. The stock is one I made this spring during the start of covid. It was one of those 80% finished stocks. But between the customizing and re-shaping/detailing and sealing it still took about 50 hours.
> 
> ...


The stock looks great. Don’t forget to break down the bolt and clean prior to annual storage.


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## twiliter (Jan 9, 2009)

johnhunter247 said:


> Agree 100%! Why are they calling it muzzleloader season? Why not just make gun season go another ten days. Heck why not just open deer season 12 months a year and weapon of choice 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Then all the flood light hunters wouldn’t be breaking the law anymore. Think of all the time and paperwork it would save dnr officers. Heck we wouldn’t even need them. The only law they need is anything goes! Buy as many deer tags as you can afford and keep filling the nrc pockets with no good management practices. If their goal is making the insurance companies happy I’m sure they would appreciate that! The reasoning for all the extra seasons is always more opportunities afield. How could you possibly beat 24/7/365?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Could not have said it better myself. Enough is enough already! We all need to be good stewards of the resources we have. The OLD muzzloader season was a challenge that leveled the playing field a bit. Take the time to access your hunting areas carrying capacity- doesn’t matter if it’s public or private and adjust your harvest and perhaps methods accordingly. I stopped into the deer check station last Sunday in Bay City. Spoke with a young gal from Millington that works there. There were 5 pickups in line checking in deer. Guy in front of me dropped his tailgate he had 4 -50# bags of corn and a cardboard box with two heads in it in the bed. He checked in two button bucks and got his two patches. The girl working said 9 out of 10 deer she was checking were antler-less and 3 out of ten were males.


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## chuckinduck (May 28, 2003)

Luv2hunteup said:


> The stock looks great. Don’t forget to break down the bolt and clean prior to annual storage.


Thanks. It was a fun project. And yes. I break that gun down after every shooting session and give it a deep clean. I may not always like it. But I do it. Haha.


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## gemihur (Jan 24, 2020)

chuckinduck,
I admire that woodwork, How's the weight as shown?
I'd like to shed my rynite on my 700 ML but haven't tried the inletting that would be required
I do make furniture for my contender, tho


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## chuckinduck (May 28, 2003)

gemihur said:


> chuckinduck,
> I admire that woodwork, How's the weight as shown?
> I'd like to shed my rynite on my 700 ML but haven't tried the inletting that would be required
> I do make furniture for my contender, tho
> View attachment 619281


Very nice looking setup. As for the weight. I honestly never weighed it. I don’t think it added a whole lot from the original stock but it’s definitely heavier. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


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## gemihur (Jan 24, 2020)

Actually I use it's big brother with a 20" Bbq


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## buckwacker 48097 (Nov 11, 2010)

Shot this doe with my high school graduation present. Smith and Wesson .357 mag with 8 3/8'' barrel... makes the doe look small...


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

Kind of looks like a fawn.


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## Bucman (Jun 29, 2016)

buckwacker 48097 said:


> View attachment 620421
> 
> 
> Shot this doe with my high school graduation present. Smith and Wesson .357 mag with 8 3/8'' barrel... makes the doe look small...


What bullets do you shoot?


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## Bob S (Mar 8, 2000)

Martin Looker said:


> Kind of looks like a fawn.


That is what I thought looking at the head and neck.


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## Bucman (Jun 29, 2016)

Martin Looker said:


> Kind of looks like a fawn.


No spots Martin! geez


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## Bucman (Jun 29, 2016)

Probably looked like a date to a big buck this time of year!

You guy post some of your kills so we can critique you!!...


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

I will guess that you have never seen spots on an adult deer but if you get the sun just right they're there but real faint.


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## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

Either that or lack of Oxygen in your lungs!


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

Or you need to do more watching.


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## buckwacker 48097 (Nov 11, 2010)

Bucman said:


> What bullets do you shoot?



*Barnes VOR-TX Ammunition 357 Magnum 140 Grain XPB*

*shot at 40 yards... traveled 40 yards... nasty bullets!*


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## buckwacker 48097 (Nov 11, 2010)

Not a fawn. Probably 1.5-2.5 year old doe. She wasn't the biggest but she was the meanest thing in the field!


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

I have one like that back here. The only other deer around her is her fawn and sometimes she will flog him too.


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## Cjoform (Dec 3, 2020)

buckwacker 48097 said:


> *Barnes VOR-TX Ammunition 357 Magnum 140 Grain XPB*
> 
> *shot at 40 yards... traveled 40 yards... nasty bullets!*



Ive used that Barnes XPB in 44 magnum a few times now on deer. They are a pretty darn good bullet.


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