# Participation in Hunting is on a "Major Decline" in Michigan



## Shlwego (Sep 13, 2006)

https://www.freep.com/story/news/lo...-hunting-big-decline-deer-fishing/1924497002/

We've talked at length about this on this forum over the past few years. This article goes into it in detail. Sad stuff. As secretive as we are about giving away our hunting locations or posting field reports, we all need to try to figure out how to get someone who hasn't hunted to go along. We're going to lose our voice at the table if there are more hikers and birdwatchers than hunters.


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## Wolverine423 (Dec 3, 2013)

I have always helped those that are willing to help themselves - But to many are always looking for the easy way out. I say so be it in the end.


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## lefty421 (Dec 7, 2012)

weird. Seems like everywhere I hunt, there are more hunters.... not less.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

In 1970 there were roughly 2 million duck hunters. There’s now less than 1 million.


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## Divers Down (Mar 31, 2008)

Access to good properties is an issue, it’s definitely decreased my hunting especially small game. Farmers used to give permission freely, now they’re worried about lawsuits or want money.


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## Divers Down (Mar 31, 2008)

craigrh13 said:


> In 1970 there were roughly 2 million duck hunters. There’s now less than 1 million.


And they all hunt Mouilee


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## eye-sore (Jan 7, 2012)

Dont believe this bs!!!!! I hunt and fish srsga and sag bay/tribs......there are more people hunting and fishing than i have seen EVER! So either all the remaining sportsmen moved to my home range or its all bull. Im sure wherever you live in mi its the same story


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Divers Down said:


> Access to good properties is an issue, it’s definitely decreased my hunting especially small game. Farmers used to give permission freely, now they’re worried about lawsuits or want money.



AMEN! Then, when they don't allow hunting, they complain about crop damage.

There is no worries about lawsuits, they are exempt from that by law.

Many want the cash of a lease, many are now just anti-hunters.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

eye-sore said:


> Dont believe this bs!!!!! I hunt and fish srsga and sag bay/tribs......there are more people hunting and fishing than i have seen EVER! So either all the remaining sportsmen moved to my home range or its all bull. Im sure wherever you live in mi its the same story


There is a marked drop in license sales. People who do hunt and fish are being "concentrated" into smaller and smaller areas due to lack of access. 

I had to laugh at Pointe Mouillee this year at the opening day draw. They said that 42 parties was a "record" draw. That's just funny! It is not even close to a "record" draw.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

It’s because there is less available hunting areas. The pressure is more concentrated. Hunting licenses have been on the decline for a long time and will continue so.


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## Shlwego (Sep 13, 2006)

craigrh13 said:


> It’s because there is less available hunting areas. The pressure is more concentrated. Hunting licenses have been on the decline for a long time and will continue so.


This is true. Nationally hunting license sales are trending downward even faster than they are here in Michigan. And probably one of the reasons for that is that Michigan is pretty unique in that we have more public hunting land available than most states. As waterfowlers, I think we see more of the effects of being concentrated into fewer areas, just by the nature of where waterfowl tend to be found. We complain about the anti-hunters, but really it seems like all they have to do is wait and watch as hunting dies on its own.


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## AaronJohn (Oct 18, 2015)

Fake news. 


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## TNL (Jan 6, 2005)

It's multi faceted. 

The Boomer generation was huge in terms of #s. Their fathers coming back from WWII hunted - many for food. Their sons hunted (boomers). Most had contacts with firearms in the service. It was a way of life. Schools were shut down during pheasant and deer openers. Now, guns are scary. There isn't the normal service related exposure to them that there was a generation ago. And people certainly don't "need" to shoot a deer anymore.

Another reason touched upon is land available to hunt. Public land during deer season is crazy. People just don't want to deal with the crowds or having to "claim" their spot. Competition has been fueled by the internet/TV and hunters being aggressive to "lock up" hunting areas. Guides have added to it by paying for the hunting rights as well. So now you have to come with your wallet open when you ask for permission. Long gone are the days when a farmer would BS a bit then say go ahead. And you could do it for free. Add in all the large tracts that have been split or made into subdivisions and the available areas to hunt are shrinking.

Another big reason kids are staying out of the sport is that in the computer age they would rather play Fortnight than go sit in a cold deer blind or wake up at 3:30am to go duck hunting. They are used to and want instant gratification. Look at the youth deer hunt - these kids shoot huge bucks in Sept, which is great and instant gratification, but how are you going to top that in Nov when there's competition out there. We offer a youth hunt so they can easily shoot dumb ducks for instant gratification. Are these kids getting hooked or are they getting jaded because in reality, during the season, it's not like that. The lack of the instant gratification leads to boredom which leads to "I don't want to go hunting". School and extra-curriculars also take their toll; there just isn't time. Coddled by helicopter moms, these kids move on to the next big thing. Sorry part is that we're going on our 2nd generation of them.

As for the duck hunting decline in the 70s, a lot had to do with steel shot. Steel was damned expensive as compared to lead. Probably double. It didn't hit as hard either. Also ducks weren't as plentiful and with the point system, you could drop one bird and be done. Duck hunting is also not for the meek. It's hard work and takes a lot of gear as compared to others. I wouldn't doubt that half dropped out. I actually thought it might be more.

So what do we do? Hunting will never be what it once was. Times have changed. What we can do is take someone hunting. Your kid, your wife or girlfriend, a buddy. Age and gender doesn't matter; I see the whole spectrum as a Hunter Safety Instructor. Don't focus on the kill count, but maybe on more on the social aspect. I'm leaving for deer camp in a few days. I know chances are slim we'll have one hanging as the deer just aren't there. But its tradition. We eat well, we drink well, we hunt hard, and we laugh. I love it.


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## TNL (Jan 6, 2005)

AaronJohn said:


> Fake news.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


It's pretty easy to quantify. Just compare license sales. 785K in 1998 to 621K now.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

TNL said:


> Also ducks weren't as plentiful and with the point system, you could drop one bird and be done.


OR, you could shoot 15 day then too.


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## Lund Explorer (Jan 23, 2011)

Shlwego said:


> https://www.freep.com/story/news/lo...-hunting-big-decline-deer-fishing/1924497002/
> 
> We've talked at length about this on this forum over the past few years. This article goes into it in detail. Sad stuff. As secretive as we are about giving away our hunting locations or posting field reports, we all need to try to figure out how to get someone who hasn't hunted to go along. We're going to lose our voice at the table if there are more hikers and birdwatchers than hunters.


I know that the number of hunters and license sales are dropping, but how can anyone take a "news" report seriously that starts with a video saying deer are the number one game animal with a video showing two spotted fawns.

I was happy that this very intelligent reporter made sure to mention that all of the best spots to hunt the top six are all located to the East of I-75. Keeps lots of citiots where they belong.

Want the real story? Take a youngster, make him watch a gaggle of hunting shows, and then send him out into the real world. Welcome to the new world of hunting.


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

eye-sore said:


> Dont believe this bs!!!!! I hunt and fish srsga and sag bay/tribs......there are more people hunting and fishing than i have seen EVER! So either all the remaining sportsmen moved to my home range or its all bull. Im sure wherever you live in mi its the same story


Just because it is raining in your backyard does not mean that the majority of the country is not in drought.

The fact is that Shiawassee River State Game Area and Saginaw Bay are great places to duck hunt. Saginaw Bay and its tributaries are great places to fish. These areas will concentrate people. There is quantitative data available that shows that participation in hunting has been declining for many years in this country.


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## mkubiak (Feb 21, 2006)

1. Family farms being sold to farm conglomerates. This cuts out access to a ton of land and land is leased to a few that are willing to pay the price

2. Urbanization. How many of your favorite swamps now have an apartment complex within shooting distance or housing complex. The expansion of non shooting zones

3. Our access laws kind of suck of waterfowling. In a lot of states, if it is a public lake, river you can hunt it in the same manner you would hunt SAGINAW Bay for instance. Think about whatever you can Fish being able to hunt. 


Side note:
I really, really can not stand what hunting shows have become and in some ways influenced our sport.


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

mkubiak said:


> Side note:
> I really, really can not stand what hunting shows have become and in some ways influenced our sport.


Emphasis on deer hunting has negatively affected access to private property for small game and waterfowl hunting.


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## Divers Down (Mar 31, 2008)

mkubiak said:


> 1. Family farms being sold to farm conglomerates. This cuts out access to a ton of land and land is leased to a few that are willing to pay the price
> 
> 2. Urbanization. How many of your favorite swamps now have an apartment complex within shooting distance or housing complex. The expansion of non shooting zones
> 
> ...


Hunting shows should have an asterisk.
*all hunts shown will far exceed anything that you experience on your overcrowded public land...but keep buying our cheap products. Lol


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## Divers Down (Mar 31, 2008)

John Singer said:


> Emphasis on deer hunting has negatively affected access to private property for small game and waterfowl hunting.


Amen, many kids first game taken is a big rack shot over an expensive private food plot. Kinda sad really


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

mkubiak said:


> 2. Urbanization. How many of your favorite swamps now have an apartment complex within shooting distance or housing complex. The expansion of non shooting zones
> 
> 3. Our access laws kind of suck of waterfowling. In a lot of states, if it is a public lake, river you can hunt it in the same manner you would hunt SAGINAW Bay for instance.


Sometime in the late 1980s or early 1990s, we waterfowl hunters lost a great deal of access to our inland lakes. 

Prior to that time, a waterfront land owner and his invited guests could shoot waterfowl in a lakeward direction without permission from neighboring houses.

The 450 ft. safety zone did not apply.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

John Singer said:


> Emphasis on deer hunting has negatively affected access to private property for small game and waterfowl hunting.


The over emphasis on deer hunting is hurting hunting, and habit projects, negatively.


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## hmrx (May 4, 2012)

Here's the catch 22, won't be popular but, it's how I see it from northern Michigan. Seems a good portion of our habit money is spent on the managed units. May or may not be true but, it's the perception up here. Many of our marginal areas get few dollars spent on them. Consequently they get older and continue to hold fewer ducks. The lack of good places to hunt tend to congregate hunters at the traditional areas. Many of us don't care to play duck bingo mostly due to the areas being to far to drive regularly. If you live close it's ok. This state should try to improve our marginal areas as it would relieve pressure on the traditional areas. It would also let hunters who live hours away from bingo feel there local areas are getting some concern. Where to spend habitat dollars is always difficult. Won't please everyone. 

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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Most of the managed areas are in places that were degraded coastal wetlands. Much non-DNR money goes into those areas. 

There are ways to improve your areas, you must make the efforts to do it "on your own". We do it down here with a LOT of work, and the combined efforts of all of the conservation groups, like Ducks Unlimited, Waterfowl USA, Gibraltar Duck Hunters etc etc. When you combine your efforts, and work with the DNR, much can be done.


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## hmrx (May 4, 2012)

So it costs no money to plant and farm, build levees, install and maintain pumps etc. and staff the managed units. We have DU chapters up here too. Still doesn't alter the fact that distribution of money is skewed to the units. Many old floodings up here are growing old and choked with growth. Poorer every year for hunting and duck nesting. 

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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

I am not going to argue. There are MANY reasons that what is taking place, is taking place. The monies that the conservation groups put in, are "Leveraged". 5K per group can be turned into a LOT of money thru grant writing, federal matching funds, etc etc. The more you have, the more you get.


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

DecoySlayer said:


> The over emphasis on deer hunting is hurting hunting, and habit projects, negatively.


Should we state this in the thread on the Deer Forum?


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## ice ghost (Jan 17, 2015)

So who have you guys introduced to hunting this year? Or last year? Or who you gonna show next year? I'm doing my part with my kid and my buddy's kid. They will understand ethics... shooting, decoy placement, calling, dog training and respect for others. Who cares about the numbers. You can only do so much yourself so start doing it.


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

I am a Hunter Safety Instructor. I have taught 3 classes each of the past two years.

Over my lifetime, I have taken many newcomers, both children and adults, hunting.

There are many people who are interested in hunting but have nobody to mentor them.

Mentoring newcomers is really rewarding.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

John Singer said:


> Should we state this in the thread on the Deer Forum?


It would be a waste of time.


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## ice ghost (Jan 17, 2015)

Now we're talking. Thanks sir for your contribution. Hunter's safety was part of my conservation class in junior high back in the 80's. The world and times have changed, no doubt. When I look at how much time my dad and uncle spent dragging me and my brother and cousin around with them I understand better what I need to do, what we all need to do. We probably won't be able to reverse the way things are going but the way I look at it, the ones who get trained right...right now are gonna have it pretty good when it comes to shooting ducks in the future. That is until ducks are extinct and tree huggers and hikers take our guns and land. LOL!!!!!


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## AaronJohn (Oct 18, 2015)

Again. Fake news. 


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

surprising
i had 19 people here for opening weekend, only 4 were over 30
seeing more young people, and females, at the draws than 10 years ago


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

Last summer, I had a mother of a 14 year old boy call me to register her son for a Hunter Safety class. The mother asked if we would be teaching hunting techniques in the upcoming class. I explained that the class focused on safety and for the most part, we do not teach hunting techniques. She then told me that her son was very interested in hunting and that there was nobody in the family that hunted and could mentor him in hunting.

I fear that there are many young people and adults who are interested in hunting but find it intimidating to learn about hunting because they do not have a proper mentor.

Here is an article from Outdoor Life on this topic of hunting decline. It is an interesting read. At the end, it discusses the importance of mentoring new hunters.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/why-we-are-losing-hunters-and-how-to-fix-it#page-8


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Kids may be a tougher nut to crack, but adults have the ability to learn what ever they want. 

My dad did not know how to hunt waterfowl, or fish, so I taught myself. People can join conservation groups where they can do some good work and meet others that hunt.


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## bfaber (Apr 17, 2010)

My dad never waterfowl hunted and still doesn’t to this day. I had to learn how all by myself and started as soon as I was 16 and could drive myself because only spot dads truck went was to the deer woods. I remember skipping school multiple pheasant openers it was just as big the deer opener. Now everybody uses the excuse of the youth weekends to get kids out. Sure great but one weekends not enough. I have 2 young boys 6 and 3 that are still a little to young to tag along. When I get home most morning I pull into them playing in the back yard with fake guns trying to build a duck blind or deer blind. On the other end of the spectrum are all those kids not from hunting families. Finding ways to find them kids and getting them involved is tough. I wish like heck I would have had some one to take me between ages 12-16. So maybe we should start asking how to find those kids and get them involved.


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## don novicki (Oct 13, 2017)

In the late 90s Pennsylvania put about 1.2 million deer hunters in the woods. Last year they put a little over 1/2 million. Hunting is dying unfortunately. The numbers don't lie.
There are vast untapped pools of youth though that would probably love to go if someone could find a way. I can count on one hand the number of minorities that I have seen or hunted with. How to get them.involved is the big thing


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## ErieH2O (Jan 24, 2018)

Just some thoughts after reading through this:

PA - It was excepted non-posted land could be hunted. Most private land is now posted. Result -> loss of access.

Crop Damage - The first question that should be asked when a farmer, tree Farm, apple orchard, what ever is when they ask for crop damage permits is “do you let people hunt your land”. Block tags are total bull. Result -> loss of access 

Farming - Much has changed in this business, the days of the family farms are fading fast or already gone. Now we have soybeans that are engineered to be resistant to Round-up and 2, 4-D so that farming can bee more productive. The crops are now a complete monoculture with no weeds or cover for small game. The farming companies (no longer can call them farmers) have removed a lot of fence rows in the order to become more productive. CRP land has reverted back to crop production. Fertilizer is polluting our rivers and lakes (Erie!). Result -> loss of habitats, loss of access, damaging envirionment 

Soft People - The world is full of sissy people that do not get enjoyment from hunting, fishing, or hard work. There is a large segment of society that want the pay check but don’t want to do the work. We are also further removed from the family farm. 40 years ago many would have a rural connecation and access to a network of people that could allow them to have access. Result -> loss of access, no interest, urbanization of people disconnected with where food comes from.

Per capita - sure seems like there are more people enjoying the areas that are local to me. The baseline of what is good hunting seems to have shifted and now people need a quest for a monster and look down on a person that shoots a lesser buck. Small game hunting is not popular, there are no freaken Pheasants. The focus for many is solely on deer. The experience per hunter is measured differently now than it used to be. Result -> It Changed


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Jeff Steven P said:


> ...........
> i often ask my wife (2nd)can the kids plant a seed, safely use a firearm, use a compass or find a place. the simple answer is no. too many kids cant even tell you the time from an analog watch. .............


Aren't these 100% the responsibility of the parents ?

L & O


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

charminultra said:


> Lol try duck hunting the martiny chain in mecosta county on opening day of duck season. Or lake dubonnet in grand traverse. Or harsens island on a rainy Tuesday morning mid season. Sometimes I wish there was less hunting participation.


It would be better to have more places to hunt.

As access dwindles, hunters are crowded into the remaining accessible places to hunt. This explains why so many people responding to this thread have stated that hunting participation is not declining.


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## charminultra (Feb 8, 2017)

BFG said:


> This right here...taking a 5 year old out in a hub shanty, putting the crossbow on a bench, and allowing him/her to shoot a deer over a pile of beets/carrots/apples is NOT hunting, it is simply killing. The satisfaction achieved from successful hunting and fishing should NEVER be with the harvest of the quarry. This is where we have gone wrong with the past couple generations. I missed three deer over four years before I was finally able to harvest a doe. I had worked hard for that deer, along with my Dad, cousin, and my Uncle. I'll never forget how excited I was to take that deer, and the smile on my face in the picture shows it. Look at a lot of the faces of kids in outdoor pics today...even as they stand over a 130" buck, a cooler full of walleye, or a tailgate full of geese...most don't look they have really enjoyed themselves. Reason being...most of those outings were slammers. They didn't have to earn their quarry. They felt only success, and no failure and the frustration that comes from hard lessons learned afield.
> 
> Online forums "rack shame" folks for shooting deer that don't approach the status of the Beatty buck. Television and Youtube have created unrealistic expectations for hunters and fishermen in that only the "best" trips make it to tape. Ask a snow goose guide in Missouri how much they love Youtube. They hate it...they absolutely hate it. Same applies for deer hunting, and the never-ending chase for monster bucks and the "let 'em walk" brigade.
> 
> ...


I seen some beat down boats catching tons of walleye on st Clair river. They didn’t pay 90k, more like $1900. Not to say my 1994 aluminum boat is any better, it cost 3000 but included trailer and down riggers. My favorite are the guys fishing on the side of the road. I bet they do pretty good too. I don’t mind paying the bait shops for bait, they have to make a living. Just don’t buy anything from bass pro shops or cabelas or gander mountain, only local.


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## Bucket-Back (Feb 8, 2004)

Fishing of the banks around these parts gets me called a "BankBilly"


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

Check this out:
http://www.mngovernorsdeeropener.com/

And this:
http://www.exploreminnesota.com/mngpho/

And this:
http://www.mngovernorsopener.com/ar...hing-opener-host-selected-for-governor-dayton

I would love to see a Michigan governor who understands and promotes the importance of hunting and fishing. It would go a long way toward supporting economic development in our rural areas.


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## spartansfan (Nov 8, 2011)

I live in extreme sw michigan. The public land options for duck hunting are non existent. When i do ask permission for fields it's often the first time many people have been asked. And as for deer, I've heard at most 15 shots each hunt so far this gun season and the amount of cars I've seen matches that. 

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