# open carry



## tigerGSP

I come back home to Michigan, once a year can I open carry ? 
I am a fl res. and have a CCW permit here, no open carry yet.
Can I OC in Michigan while visting ??


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## eddiejohn4

I understand the stance being taken on both sides of this issue. personly I see more of a tactical advandage to being concealed when armed. I do however think it is your right as an american to carry openly if you so choose.

The point of being a deterrent though is questionable from a tactical position. If you are idenified as armed you will most certainly be the first taken out. When you state that thugs have a habit of moving on to softer targets you are missing the fact that there are serious offenders out there. these are the types that rob banks with armed guards, shops with armed personel, they are not afraid of armed conflict as I think they do not have enough brain power to be. I work in an urban trauma one ER and I will tell from fact that gunfights happen quite frequently with other armed thugs, and these young thugs do not have the fear God gave a goose. If these same goons see you armed and want your weapon they will simply wait untill they have the advantage and shoot you to get it. remember they have the upper hand as they know you are armed ,you however do not know who is armed and stalking you. 

Please remember that any man can be killed ,I do not care who you are and what training you have, armed conflict at best is a heart thumper and you will have to deal with adrenaline while dealing with your assailant. this is not as easy as one might think. I personly want all the advantage I can get. I want my assailant to be oblivious to my being armed untill hopefully 5 tenths of a second after I have shot him. But most of all I hope I never have to.


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## GENERALDET

tigerGSP said:


> I come back home to Michigan, once a year can I open carry ?
> I am a fl res. and have a CCW permit here, no open carry yet.
> Can I OC in Michigan while visting ??



Yes, you may. And since your CPL is recognized my Michigan you may CC as well. (which I'm sure you already know.) Just make sure that you read up on Michigan law regarding OC. If you want to PM me your email address I'd be happy to send you some info.


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## timberdoodle528

Im glad I stumbled onto this thread. We were just talking about this the other day. I like to run down the backroads around where I live, I dont have a concealed weapons permit or anything... can I carry a gun on me while I run as long as it's not concealed?


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## malainse

timberdoodle528 said:


> Im glad I stumbled onto this thread. We were just talking about this the other day. I like to run down the backroads around where I live, I dont have a concealed weapons permit or anything... can I carry a gun on me while I run as long as it's not concealed?


Yes, as long as it is not concealed. In a holster is OK. Since you do not have a CPL ,the handgun must be registered in YOUR name.


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## timberdoodle528

Right. It is. Thanks!


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## GENERALDET

One thing to keep in mind is that you can not carry the gun on you in a vehicle unless you have a CPL. Walking, no problem.


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## yooperguy

GENERALDET said:


> One thing to keep in mind is that you can not carry the gun on you in a vehicle unless you have a CPL. Walking, no problem.


GENERALDAT - does that apply to 4 wheelers too? I assume it does but not sure. Thanks!


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## malainse

yooperguy2003 said:


> does that apply to 4 wheelers too? I assume it does but not sure. Thanks!



Yes, any motor vehicle...


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## DeerManager

I have a CPL, so i don't need to worry BUT be cautioned that you may encounter some issues when Oc'ing from the public and even Police Officers.

*YOU CAN OPENLY CARRY A HANDGUN IN MICHIGAN**

*1) Any law abiding citizen of the State of Michigan who owns a safety inspected handgun may openly carry (in a holster) said firearm in all places not explicitly exempt by law with or without a CPL. Private property rules over-ride state law in regards to firearm possession. *

MSP Legal Update Newsletter: April 2007: Did You Know: It is not illegal under Michigan law to openly carry a pistol...

PLACES off limits to firearms without a CPL: Sec. 234d (1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following: a) A Bank. b) A church. c) A court. d) A theatre. e) A sports arena. f) A day care center. g) A hospital. h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act (BAR). (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity. 
b) A peace officer. 
c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity. 

*2) If you dont have a CPL, you must transport your handgun as prescribe by law. *

Michigan State Police Web Site. Transporting a pistol in a motor vehicle? 

Answer A person is now permitted to transport a pistol for a lawful purpose if the owner or occupant of the vehicle is the registered owner of the firearm and the pistol is unloaded and in a closed case in the trunk of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, the pistol may be in the passenger compartment of the vehicle unloaded and inaccessible to the occupants of the vehicle. The law defines lawful purpose as: 1) While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area. 2) While transporting a pistol to or from home or place of business and a place of repair. 3) While moving goods from one place of residence or business to another place of residence or business. 4) While transporting a licensed pistol to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed (registering the pistol) or to have a law enforcement official take possession of the pistol. 5) While en route to or from home or place of business to a gun show or place of purchase or sale. 6) While en route to or from home to a public shooting facility or land where the discharge of firearms is permitted. 7) While en route to or from home to private property where the pistol is to be used as permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance. 

*3) No local ordinance concerning firearm possession is enforceable due to Michigans preemption law.*

In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

THE MICHIGAN APPEALS COURT CONCLUDED: April 29, 2003 9:10 am. v No. 242237 In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas. 

Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse.

MCRGO v. Ferndale: The Michigan Court of Appeals held that local units of government may not impose restrictions upon firearms possession. 

*4) Brandishing and disturbing the peace are not an offense while lawfully openly carrying a firearm. *

ADVISORY NOTE: Though this section on disturbing the peace does not deal with firearms, due to the nature of this code, this law has been cited by officers to suppress or discourage lawful open carry. Since a person who is not licensed to carry concealed MUST open carry their firearms on foot in order to avoid criminal charge, nor is there any duty for anyone licensed to conceal their handgun, open carry is not disorderly conduct. The open carrying of firearms is not by itself threatening, nor does it cause a hazardous or physically offensive condition.

BRANDISHING Opinion No. 7101 February 6, 2002: In the absence of any reported Michigan appellate court decisions defining "brandishing," it is appropriate to rely upon dictionary definitions..the term brandishing is defined as: "1. To wave or flourish menacingly, as a weapon. 2. To display ostentatiously. A menacing or defiant wave or flourish." This definition comports with the meaning ascribed to this term by courts of other jurisdictionsthe court recognized that in federal sentencing guidelines, "brandishing" a weapon is defined to mean "that the weapon was pointed or waved about, or displayed in a threatening manner." Applying these definitions to your question, it is clear that a reserve police officer, regardless whether he or she qualifies as a "peace officer," when carrying a handgun in a holster in plain view, is not waving or displaying the firearm in a threatening manner. Thus, such conduct does not constitute brandishing a firearm in violation of section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code. It is my opinion, therefore, thatby carrying a handgun in a holster that is in plain view, does not violate section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code, which prohibits brandishing a firearm in public. 

*5) A person openly carrying a firearm on foot in a legal manner when approached by a police officer and questioned where the only reason for the questioning is because of the openly carried firearm need not give that officer their name and address. No license or ID is required to openly carry a firearm. It is your option to provide ID/CPL. *

ADVISORY NOTE: Each situation is different. We recommend you cooperate with all lawful questions and requests. Ask the officer if the reason you are being detained is for the legal open carry of a firearm. After giving your name and address, ask if you are free to go, ask if you are being detained. If they continue to ask questions about ID and why you are carrying a gun, repeat the question, am I free to go? Am I being detained? If the situation escalates ask for a supervisor. Remember the officer can arrest you for anything, dont resist the arrest. After an illegal arrest you may have legal options you can employ.

*6) An AG opinion, the MSP and Senator Prusi stated that a person with a CPL can carry a firearm openly in the exempted areas listed in MCL 750.234d. For example, with permission from the owner you can openly carry a handgun in a bar, sports arena, etc. *

Opinion No. 7097 January 11, 2002 A person licensed by this state to carry a concealed weapon.By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places but explicitly exempts from its prohibition [a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon. Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol, including a private investigator, is exempt from the gun-free zone restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the types of premises listed in that statute. 

Your analysis is correct. Non-CPL pistol free zones do not apply to CPL holders. The CPL pistol free zones only apply to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones. 
Sincerely, Sgt. Thomas Deasy, Michigan State Police Executive Resource Section, (517) 336-6441

My office has contacted the Michigan State Police legislative liaison and has received some answers to share with you. According to the liaison, it is legal to openly carry a firearm in a "Pistol Free Zone" if you are a licensed CPL holder. I was advised that your information was correct that MCL 28.425o and MCL 750-234d permit this activity. I was informed that there was no other additional relevant laws regarding this matter Michael A Prusi, State Senator 38th District"

ADVISORY NOTE: Before carrying a handgun we recommend that you become familiar with all state and federal laws in regards to firearm laws and the use of deadly force. Taking a self defense/firearm course is recommended. Michigan has a self defense act PA No. 309 July 18, 2006 that states you do not have to retreat from a threat, but you must meet the legal requirements before you engage in the use of deadly force.

FOR MORE INFO SEE OpenCarry.org and click on forums, then click on MICHIGAN.

*The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research on the subject of open carry in Michigan. You are responsible in determining the accuracy of any information listed above. If you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.


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## DeerManager

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/13328.html


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## k9wernet

Couldn't get past the first line of the article:

"A group of gun owners in West Michigan is speaking up for it's rights"...

Did Fox 17 hire a 13 year old girl to write it for them?

KW


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## DeerManager

I agree! I married an English teacher and I am also a Elementary school teacher, drives me nuts!


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## lmholmes11

I love open carry. When i'm carying my XD .45 with two mags I always have people say that they appreciate me doing so..on the other hand there are always some exceptions also.


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## wyldkat49766

Our Walmart stopped a guy for doing just this last week. Im actually glad. I would rather they kept them concealed.


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## miruss

wyldkat49766 said:


> Our Walmart stopped a guy for doing just this last week. Im actually glad. I would rather they kept them concealed.


from what i understand corp policy is to follow state law so if this guy calls corporate your manager will get a call saying he was wrong

Wal-Mart's corporate policy is to follow state law. If OC is legal, then it's allowed in Wal-Mart. Same for CC. Managers are not allowed to set policy contradictory to corporate policy. If the manager at this store doesn't know what the corp policy is, tell her to call Bentonville.

Better yet, send a letter to Wal-Mart corporate and have them send you the policy on their letterhead and carry a copy with you into the store (while open carrying of course). Their address is:

Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.
702 SW 8th Street
Bentonville, Arkansas 72716-8611


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## k9wernet

miruss said:


> from what i understand corp policy is to follow state law...


Might want to check your understanding...

Private property owners can put all kinds of limitations on what happens on their property. No guns, no smoking, no shirt - no service. I have a legal right to drink beer, but if I try to do it in my Grandma's house, she's likely to call the cops and have me removed... seriously.

It might be bad for business for Walmart to kick people out of the store, but I do think it's within their legal right.

If I'm wrong, feel free to call me out on it.

KW


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## Justin

k9wernet said:


> Might want to check your understanding...
> 
> Private property owners can put all kinds of limitations on what happens on their property. No guns, no smoking, no shirt - no service. I have a legal right to drink beer, but if I try to do it in my Grandma's house, she's likely to call the cops and have me removed... seriously.
> 
> It might be bad for business for Walmart to kick people out of the store, but I do think it's within their legal right.
> 
> If I'm wrong, feel free to call me out on it.
> 
> KW


While what you say is true... the local manager is not the owner.


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## miruss

k9wernet said:


> Might want to check your understanding...
> 
> Private property owners can put all kinds of limitations on what happens on their property. No guns, no smoking, no shirt - no service. I have a legal right to drink beer, but if I try to do it in my Grandma's house, she's likely to call the cops and have me removed... seriously.
> 
> It might be bad for business for Walmart to kick people out of the store, but I do think it's within their legal right.
> 
> If I'm wrong, feel free to call me out on it.
> 
> KW


 k9wernet

you are right owners of private property sets the rules BUT corporate walmart has the rules that they follow state laws and there managers are suppose to follow corporate rules


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## dewman22

Do I have to have my Application and License to purchase a pistol certificate on my person to open carry?


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