# 2d Jan Season => Decline in GL Mallards?



## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

Is it possible that one contributing factor in the decline of the Great Lakes Mallard population is the January 2-Day hunt?

It is a sad, established fact that the Great Lakes Mallard population has been declining in recent years. It is also an established fact that the majority of Mallards killed in Michigan during our duck seasons are hatched in the Great Lakes region.

I have participated in the late season hunt in the past. I have hunted both Lake Erie (mostly divers) and inland crop fields in South Central Michigan. When hunting inland our bag has consisted exclusively of Mallards.

I know full well that there are other possible explanations for this decline: Habitat Loss, Predation, Pesticide Use, Encroaching Mute Swan Population, Global Climate Change, etc. 

However, if we wanted to reduce the Great Lakes Mallard population, one way to do it would be to allow the weather to concentrate the surviving birds on prime habitat of remaining open water and food in South East, South Central, and South Western Michigan. Lull the birds into sense of security with a 3-4 week season closure and then to enter that habitat and proceed to "smack-down" the population.

Now, my original statement is not a fact. It is not a theory. It is a hypothesis. It is a testable explanation for an observation. One test of this hypothesis is to look at historic population data and see if the decline in Great Lakes Mallards corresponds with or accelerates with the establishment of the late January season. Another test would be to suspend or end the 2-day January hunt and see if there is a positive change in the Great Lakes Mallard population.


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## GuppyII (Sep 14, 2008)

Maybe you need to look at the tentative season dates in the CWAC threads. I doubt you'll get much support here, most guys that are serious loved that hunt.

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## mintgreenwalleyemachine (Jan 18, 2005)

But they say there wasn't enough participation in the 2 day Jan hunt? 


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## here2 (Apr 28, 2008)

i really dont believe that the birds we shoot in jan are hatched in the great lakes area. i mean thats a heck of a long time for birds that even live on the north end of superior to just linger around our state, i mean maybe if there is a ton of bands getting turned in from the split that were hatched in the area and shot in the area. i know last year buddies shot 3 geese durring early season with consecutive numbers and banded in ontario but thats the resident season, but i could also be wrong.

i love the ice battle of the late season, but i didnt go to meeting call email, or snail mail anyone one so im not goign to bit h on this


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

shot quite a few bands over the years. most of those bands were from november. not a one of them is a michigan band. 90% of our mallards get tore up and head south after the 1st 3 weekends of war.


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## Chemicoducker (Aug 7, 2011)

I've shot banded birds during the January split near Lansing and all of the bands were from Michigan. In fact they were banded within 10 miles of where we harvested them. However, I do not believe (based on science that's out there) that hunting affects the populations. The science indicates the reason for increases or declines rests PRIMARILY with habitat, food, nest success and hatchling survival (predation). Now this is not to say that if we hunt only GLMs that hunting could not have some effect, but I would question any decline based on hunting alone. I have mentioned this in other posts: we are hunting surplus birds. If any of our ducks were at such a level that we risked the species, then the seasons would be eliminated and we would not be able to hunt them. That would come from the USFWS. Believe me, they (the USFWS) pull the trigger and attribute hunting as a causal factor in duck numbers when evidence does not support it (referring to the reduced Scaup season a few years ago). Letters were written, calls were made, scientific evidence was provided yet they STILL had a reduced season. The reported reason was they miscounted during the surveys and it was too late to recall the numbers to allow for a regular season. We need to let the GLM study happen and then make sound decisions based on the very best science we have at the time, not merely on speculation and conjecture.


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

Homer Simpson said: "Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that."

I doubt that 90% of our mallards get killed or leave the state in the first three weeks of our season. Even if they do studies show that the majority of our mallard kill are Great Lakes population which is documented to be declining. We do get mallards here from other Great Lakes states/provinces.

Just because a banded mallard is not from Michigan, it does not mean that it is not a Great Lakes Mallard.


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## here2 (Apr 28, 2008)

Yes i do think we shoot gla mallards i just dont believe that our birds just hang around until january.


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## Water_Hazard (Aug 16, 2006)

I always thought that the mallards I would hunt on the 2 day January hunt were just local birds on the last remaining open water.


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## Water_Hazard (Aug 16, 2006)

Chemicoducker said:


> I've shot banded birds during the January split near Lansing and all of the bands were from Michigan. In fact they were banded within 10 miles of where we harvested them. .


I did shoot one a couple years ago from Nanavut during the January season. Usually the bands I shoot in September are within a few numbers of the ones I shoot in January, and some are within a few numbers from last year or the year before. Sounds like we are hunting the same flock.


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## Ieatantlers (Oct 7, 2008)

Chemicoducker said:


> I've shot banded birds during the January split near Lansing and all of the bands were from Michigan.


A banded duck near Lansing? Now I know you are lying.


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

Chemicoducker said:


> I've shot banded birds during the January split near Lansing and all of the bands were from Michigan.


Total band harvest since 1914 banded anywhere and harvested in Michigan: 24,598

Michigan: 9709 or 39.5% of the harvest
Ontario: 4283 or 17.4% of the harvest
Wisconsin: 1995 or 8.1% of the harvest
Manitoba: 1081 or 4.4% of the harvest
Minnesota: 909 or 3.7% of the harvest
Ohio: 882 or 3.5% of the harvest

Approximately 10% of the yearly harvest of Michigan banded birds occurs in January.


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## wavie (Feb 2, 2004)

Chemicoducker said:


> However, I do not believe (based on science that's out there) that hunting affects the populations.


There is a study about to happen in another state looking at a specific population of birds and how a reduction in the bag limit is hypothisized not to have any impact on the population. It is a unique study in that this has never been accomplished before. Might be applicable to our GL birds, heck, even in how the feds suggest a reduction in any bag limit, regardless of the species.


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## Chemicoducker (Aug 7, 2011)

Ieatantlers said:


> A banded duck near Lansing? Now I know you are lying.


I do a lot of things but not lie about banded birds!!! :16suspect Maybe you need to join our MDHA chapter and hunt with us??


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## Chemicoducker (Aug 7, 2011)

wavie said:


> There is a study about to happen in another state looking at a specific population of birds and how a reduction in the bag limit is hypothisized not to have any impact on the population. It is a unique study in that this has never been accomplished before. Might be applicable to our GL birds, heck, even in how the feds suggest a reduction in any bag limit, regardless of the species.


Wavie, could you please PM me with the study information? I'd love to look into it further. Good to know. Thanks!


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## Chemicoducker (Aug 7, 2011)

field-n-feathers said:


> Total band harvest since 1914 banded anywhere and harvested in Michigan: 24,598
> 
> Michigan: 9709 or 39.5% of the harvest
> Ontario: 4283 or 17.4% of the harvest
> ...


Where are your statistics coming from? That's interesting information. The DNR came out with information that has Great Lakes mallards being a lot higher than the percentage outlined in your numbers. Curious to see where they got their info and where you got yours. Inquiring minds HAVE to know! :coolgleam


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

chemicoducker said:


> where are your statistics coming from? That's interesting information. The dnr came out with information that has great lakes mallards being a lot higher than the percentage outlined in your numbers. Curious to see where they got their info and where you got yours. Inquiring minds have to know! :coolgleam


I can't divulge all of my secrets. LOL!


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## LoBrass (Oct 16, 2007)

We were told (at the meeting) that GLM were only considered Minn, Wis and MI birds. According to that information, using these band numbers, that would account for 51.3% of our birds. However, if you were to count Ontario and Ohio that brings the numbers up to 72.2%-much closer to the 75% figure that was given to us at the CWAC meeting. I honestly do not know how or where these numbers were found. As previously stated statistics can be an interesting study on it's own.

What I have confidence in is that the majority of our Michigan mallard harvest comes from our own state and neighboring areas. I also am certain we have an issue with those populations dropping in recent years. I have theorized that perhaps this drop was related to increased resident geese, decreased Great Lakes water levels and dry Michigan conditions. But, virtually all those issues have, to a degree, relieved themselves. We have lower resident goose populations this year, I believe stable GL water and great wet spring weather with wetlands everywhere yet we are down on GLM's again.

This upcoming study is much needed and I hope it sheds some light on what is happening with the local mallards.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Tons of factors in our region for the decline. Don't forget the boom in Mute Swans, which can aggressively curtail nesting success. 

You guys are getting side-tracked...the big take away from that talk at CWAC about GL Mallards is even though duck numbers in the main rearing areas of North America (the prairie pothole region of the US and Canada) are mainly up, those aren't the birds we see in our state. We all get lulled into thinking things are great, when in reality those prairie pothole birds bypass us altogether.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Ieatantlers said:


> A banded duck near Lansing? Now I know you are lying.


I shot a huge banded drake woodie years ago at Maple River that turned out to be 13 years old. If I hadn't already had a nice drake woodie on the wall, he would've been there.


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## PhilBernardi (Sep 6, 2010)

Keep in mind, FnF is giving you ALL bands since 1914 - of data given him by USFWS.

The numbers reported at CWAC were from data one or two years old and those number were mallards ONLY. FnF is for ALL waterfowl (or he can further define what the species are that he's assuming in those band numbers).

The hypothesis is: Is there a strong negative correlation (my wording) between the late season duck hunt and the drop in WI/MN/MI mallards?

It's a good question to ask, just not sure how one would go about finding supporting (or non-supporting) evidence.


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## PhilBernardi (Sep 6, 2010)

Get to work, ChemicalJunkyDude!


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## wavie (Feb 2, 2004)

What we do know at this point is that GL mallards nest fine and produce ducklings. Its duckling survival (ie once they hatch) that is pathetic and appears to be the limiting factor.


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## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

Shoot more varmits! 

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## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

I wonder if there might be a correlation between the glm numbers going down and the number of people that trap going down? 

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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

field-n-feathers said:


> Total band harvest since 1914 banded anywhere and harvested in Michigan: 24,598
> 
> Michigan: 9709 or 39.5% of the harvest
> Ontario: 4283 or 17.4% of the harvest
> ...


You mean we aren't shooting Canadian Red Legs Damn:irked:

I thought our local mallard population migrated with their food source when the grey hairs went south in October.


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## Mike L (Sep 8, 2003)

Concerning the mallards ?.....I wonder if pesticides would have an effect on the local bay mallards, I'm thinking it would. "All" farmers use them and every farmer in the bay area try to have there fields tiled.

Our water has dropped and has been that way for a number of years, so there's less pothole area's for breeding and you have pesticide run off entering the Bay all of the time. I'm thinking it could very well be like the pheasant thing. Take all that has happened to the pheasants and apply it to the ducks.

Of course this is all speculation, but in my local area I used to see teal, woody's, mallards in the ditches, now I don't see them anymore. There has to be a reason. The farm fields all drain into these ditch's.


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## Ieatantlers (Oct 7, 2008)

Chemicoducker said:


> I do a lot of things but not lie about banded birds!!! :16suspect Maybe you need to join our MDHA chapter and hunt with us??


I was only kidding. I've shot probably 500 ducks in the greater lansing area over the past 14 or 15 years and haven't got a band yet. Geese and collars I've fortunately been able to shoot though.


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## Chez29 (May 11, 2008)

Few thoughts, I have always thought it strange that more emphasis wasnt placed on GL bird numbers when setting seasons and harvests. Its been no secret for several years that the number of GL mallards has declined but we set our seasons based off numbers in the prairie pothole region, which we dont get a major migration from. 
Another factor is the upper regions of these areas Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota have been in very dry conditions that last several springs, low snowfalls etc. At the same time the prairie areas ND,SD have been extremely wet which may have resulted in a shift in breeding as the GL mallards followed the water to the west, and as a result those hatches tend to home into those areas versus coming to the GL region.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Chez29 said:


> ...At the same time the prairie areas ND,SD have been extremely wet which may have resulted in a shift in breeding as the GL mallards followed the water to the west, and as a result those hatches tend to home into those areas versus coming to the GL region.


you've hit on yet another variable...the fact that over the last 20, 30, 40 years or so the pattern of bird migration through the great lakes region has shifted. We've all probably seen the studies. Whether you're looking at Cans, Scaup, Old Squaw or Mallards, they have all changed their patterns. so if you're talking strictly about GL Mallards, shouldn't this be factored in as well?

Like I said in a previous post...lots of variables, many which have been mentioned here. Hopefully this latest research will yield some kind of conclusive data.


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## waterfowlhunter83 (Aug 10, 2005)

TSS Caddis said:


> You mean we aren't shooting Canadian Red Legs Damn:irked:


:lol::lol::lol:...come on we haven't even started the season yet, too early to be using that line.


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## PhilBernardi (Sep 6, 2010)

*Hopefully this latest research will yield some kind of conclusive data.*

Do you mean in support of an alternative hypothesis that predicts some sort of correlation? 

It may be the case that whatever research is going is nothing but exploratory. 

I haven't heard one way or the other.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

PhilBernardi said:


> *Hopefully this latest research will yield some kind of conclusive data.*
> 
> Do you mean in support of an alternative hypothesis that predicts some sort of correlation?
> 
> ...


No one hypothesis in particular. I mean coming up with some kind of scientific based reasoning for the drop, whether it is loss of habitat, increased predation, competition from swans, chemicals in the water, over hunting, changes in migration patterns, yada, yada, yada, or just "inconclusive" due to numerous factors.


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## gunsnrods (Jun 8, 2009)

sooo if we r still shooting our local mallards on the 2 day january hunt, then wouldnt it make sense that we r shooting them all season.... so in the end result if its our local great lakes population we want to cut back on harvesting why dont we juss end our michigan duck season... sounds like the same logic to me???? i personally enjoy the 2 day hunt as well as every other day of duck season. i can only guess but looking at what kind of local birds we shoot as an average over the rest of the season compared to that of the 2 day hunt would b somewat similair, or that we shoot MORE local birds during the normal season than we do during the 2 day hunt??? idk im no biologist


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## DEDGOOSE (Jan 19, 2007)

gunsnrods said:


> sooo if we r still shooting our local mallards on the 2 day january hunt, then wouldnt it make sense that we r shooting them all season.... so in the end result if its our local great lakes population we want to cut back on harvesting why dont we juss end our michigan duck season... sounds like the same logic to me???? i personally enjoy the 2 day hunt as well as every other day of duck season. i can only guess but looking at what kind of local birds we shoot as an average over the rest of the season compared to that of the 2 day hunt would b somewat similair, or that we shoot MORE local birds during the normal season than we do during the 2 day hunt??? idk im no biologist


I agree.. 

Yes the birds will be concentrated but due to lack of open water and what can be brutal conditions, participation amongst the tennis shoe hunters and even some avid folks cannot make a dent in the number of birds that are shot in the 58 days of hunting that led to the 2 day.


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

PhilBernardi said:


> Keep in mind, FnF is giving you ALL bands since 1914 - of data given him by USFWS.
> 
> The numbers reported at CWAC were from data one or two years old and those number were mallards ONLY. FnF is for ALL waterfowl (or he can further define what the species are that he's assuming in those band numbers).


No Phil, my numbers are Mallards only.



DEDGOOSE said:


> Yes the birds will be concentrated but due to lack of open water and what can be brutal conditions, participation amongst the tennis shoe hunters and even some avid folks cannot make a dent in the number of birds that are shot in the 58 days of hunting that led to the 2 day.


Approximately 20% of SW Michigan's Mallard band harvest has taken place on the January 2-day hunt. Looking at the Waterfowl Survey estimates.....on average less than 10% of SLP duck harvest takes place on those two days.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

field-n-feathers said:


> ...Looking at the Waterfowl Survey estimates.....on average less than 10% of SLP duck harvest takes place on those two days.


this certainly doesn't bode well in your quest to convince the DNR that the Jan two days are highly important with respect to participation.


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## Chemicoducker (Aug 7, 2011)

LoBrass said:


> We were told (at the meeting) that GLM were only considered Minn, Wis and MI birds. According to that information, using these band numbers, that would account for 51.3% of our birds. However, if you were to count Ontario and Ohio that brings the numbers up to 72.2%-much closer to the 75% figure that was given to us at the CWAC meeting. I honestly do not know how or where these numbers were found. As previously stated statistics can be an interesting study on it's own.
> 
> What I have confidence in is that the majority of our Michigan mallard harvest comes from our own state and neighboring areas. I also am certain we have an issue with those populations dropping in recent years. I have theorized that perhaps this drop was related to increased resident geese, decreased Great Lakes water levels and dry Michigan conditions. But, virtually all those issues have, to a degree, relieved themselves. We have lower resident goose populations this year, I believe stable GL water and great wet spring weather with wetlands everywhere yet we are down on GLM's again.
> 
> This upcoming study is much needed and I hope it sheds some light on what is happening with the local mallards.


In fact, SO wet that we lost a lot of ground nests due to flooding. I had that conversation with Dave Luukkonen prior to the beginning of the CWAC meeting. It makes sense that our numbers this spring from the early season counts would be down. It will be interesting to see what the harvest numbers for this season will be. I'm not a betting man so I won't even venture to guess. However, I am seeing a lot of small ponds and waterways with a lot of mallards in them. It could be an interesting year.


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## Chemicoducker (Aug 7, 2011)

just ducky said:


> Tons of factors in our region for the decline. Don't forget the boom in Mute Swans, which can aggressively curtail nesting success.
> 
> You guys are getting side-tracked...the big take away from that talk at CWAC about GL Mallards is even though duck numbers in the main rearing areas of North America (the prairie pothole region of the US and Canada) are mainly up, those aren't the birds we see in our state. We all get lulled into thinking things are great, when in reality those prairie pothole birds bypass us altogether.


JD, please remember there are a lot of PPR mallards that get harvested in the U.P., especially in the western part. So the PPR mallards aren't bypassing us altogether...


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## Chemicoducker (Aug 7, 2011)

Ieatantlers said:


> I was only kidding. I've shot probably 500 ducks in the greater lansing area over the past 14 or 15 years and haven't got a band yet. Geese and collars I've fortunately been able to shoot though.


Ok, I'm cool with that... :coolgleam but you can STILL join our MDHA chapter. Meeting tomorrow (Wednesday) night at 6pm, Eagle Eye in Bath, downstairs in the log room. Be there!!! :chillin:


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

just ducky said:


> this certainly doesn't bode well in your quest to convince the DNR that the Jan two days are highly important with respect to participation.


I don't see how you can say that. 10% of the harvest takes place in 2 days, and it can also be argued that 20% of SW Michigan's harvest takes place during those 2 days. I'm not the one flying around this board touting participation.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

field-n-feathers said:


> I don't see how you can say that. 10% of the harvest takes place in 2 days, and it can also be argued that 20% of SW Michigan's harvest takes place during those 2 days. I'm not the one flying around this board touting participation.


We can all spin this however we want. yes, 10% in two days is impressive. But as has been said many times it's because it's typically a slaughter for those few people who have them located, and have a huge smackdown. Take time away in October or early November, and you'll see more than a 10% drop.


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

just ducky said:


> We can all spin this however we want. yes, 10% in two days is impressive. But as has been said many times it's because it's typically a slaughter for those few people who have them located, and have a huge smackdown. Take time away in October or early November, and you'll see more than a 10% drop.


So, now it's a spin. LOL!


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

just ducky said:


> Take time away in October or early November, and you'll see more than a 10% drop.


Prove it.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

FWIW, flats lost complete nesting the last 2 springs due to floods. to the point that you couldn't find a mallard brood on the flats. only wood ducks.


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## Ieatantlers (Oct 7, 2008)

Chemicoducker said:


> Ok, I'm cool with that... :coolgleam but you can STILL join our MDHA chapter. Meeting tomorrow (Wednesday) night at 6pm, Eagle Eye in Bath, downstairs in the log room. Be there!!! :chillin:


If I'm going to Eagle Eye it is to golf. Duck hunting organizations are getting wayayyyy too political for me to get involved.


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## lestat (Oct 27, 2007)

Ieatantlers said:


> If I'm going to Eagle Eye it is to golf. Duck hunting organizations are getting wayayyyy too political for me to get involved.


Right on!


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

field-n-feathers said:


> Prove it.


C'mon man...stop the childish bs for once. I could say prove that you won't shoot birds on Dec 10th and 11th. OH WAIT...I guess we will this season, eh?


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## Ferris_StateHunter (Apr 24, 2006)

just ducky said:


> Take time away in October or early November, and you'll see more than a 10% drop.


Until we actually try dates that utilize splits during those times, its purely speculation if you ask me how much we would loose/gain by having splits during those months.

My take on participation is this, people will hunt no matter the conditions, if their chances of success are high. Sure we will loose SOME people due to weather, but if the shooting is good, then people will hunt!

Now I recognize some people are just not willing to work later in the year to find birds, but those are probably the same people who hunt one or two weekends a year, typically the first few weekends, then done.

Imo if the license sales do not show a significant decrease by the split being earlier, or a significant decline in sga usage, then all options should be on the table. 

The dnr is going on "historical records" that to my knowledge have never seen an early or middle split, its about time we try
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

just ducky said:


> C'mon man...stop the childish bs for once.


Come on JD......Really? Bottom line, every single CWAC representative from SW Michigan voted no for the current proposal. They represent the majority of us.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

field-n-feathers said:


> Come on JD......Really? Bottom line, every single CWAC representative from SW Michigan voted no for the current proposal. They represent the majority of us.


And your point is????? "Majority of us"??? 19 total seats last I counted.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Ferris_StateHunter said:


> My take on participation is this, people will hunt no matter the conditions, if their chances of success are high. Sure we will loose SOME people due to weather, but if the shooting is good, then people will hunt!


I've really found just the opposite. The average guy has no clue most of the time and most of the time struggles to shoot birds. So when it get's cold, that is the excuse he has to bail. You may get some that will deal with the cold/wind/snow for 1 day, but most won't do that more than one day.

Didn't see a sole this day. 3 hunters, 3 limits in a couple hours. Snowing so hard that you could not see the end of the lines.


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

just ducky said:


> And your point is????? "Majority of us"??? 19 total seats last I counted.


Don't be dense. You know exactly who I'm speaking of when I say, "majority of us". If not....I'll make it easier.......The majority opinion of SW Michigan as evidenced by every CWAC member that represents our majority opinion by voting NO on the proposal.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

field-n-feathers said:


> Don't be dense. You know exactly who I'm speaking of when I say, "majority of us". If not....I'll make it easier.......The majority opinion of SW Michigan as evidenced by every CWAC member that represents our majority opinion by voting NO on the proposal.


Reading some of the posts on this board from your fellow west/sw Michigan hunters, and discussions I've had with some of them, I'd suggest you're opinion does not represent the MAJORITY of even west/sw Michigan. I could go back and count up the posts, but I think it would show about a 50/50 split over the switch from the Jan weekend to the Dec weekend, just like it would if I polled hunters at Fish Point, Linwood, Monroe, Shiawassee River, etc. 

You're hearing from your close circle, who you've obviously rallied up to be anti-CWAC, anti-DNR, anti-bay hunters, anti-Shiawassee....have fun out there on your plank.


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## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

If we are not in the majority why would all of our cwac reps have voted against the proposal?.......

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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Huntermax-4 said:


> If we are not in the majority why would all of our cwac reps have voted against the proposal?.......
> 
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to get to specifics, do you guys have the vote tally. i know that our rep voted against the proposal...he wanted to see another round of debate on a different date set (i think thats what he told me last night).

so if we do the math. 19 possible votes. 1 absent voter, 1 unfilled spot. 17 total voters. 13 needed to pass. believe there was 14 votes for proposal. that leaves 3 nay votes....sfcha being one of them. I know rob voted against...thats leaves 1 other nay vote. How many reps are from SW?


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Huntermax-4 said:


> If we are not in the majority why would all of our cwac reps have voted against the proposal?.......
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


I'm just saying look at the posts here for a random sample...several people from west/sw have said they don't mind this split. As we've all said, this board only represents a few waterfowlers.I 'm only suggesting it may not be as lopsided as you think.


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## PhilBernardi (Sep 6, 2010)

*field-n-feathers,* 

Can you give us that initial breakout but for ***the timeframe of 1995 and later (AHM years)? 


p.s. I have that band data set too but two laptop crashes and other attention getting events have kept me from doing a further detailed analysis. 

p.p.s. We need to get the wing and feather data as well.


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## Chemicoducker (Aug 7, 2011)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> to get to specifics, do you guys have the vote tally. i know that our rep voted against the proposal...he wanted to see another round of debate on a different date set (i think thats what he told me last night).
> 
> so if we do the math. 19 possible votes. 1 absent voter, 1 unfilled spot. 17 total voters. 13 needed to pass. believe there was 14 votes for proposal. that leaves 3 nay votes....sfcha being one of them. I know rob voted against...thats leaves 1 other nay vote. How many reps are from SW?


I was nay number 3


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

just ducky said:


> Reading some of the posts on this board from your fellow west/sw Michigan hunters, and discussions I've had with some of them, I'd suggest you're opinion does not represent the MAJORITY of even west/sw Michigan. I could go back and count up the posts, but I think it would show about a 50/50 split over the switch from the Jan weekend to the Dec weekend, just like it would if I polled hunters at Fish Point, Linwood, Monroe, Shiawassee River, etc.
> 
> You're hearing from your close circle, who you've obviously rallied up to be anti-CWAC, anti-DNR, anti-bay hunters, anti-Shiawassee....have fun out there on your plank.


I am not anti anyone JD. I've said before.....I don't blame CWAC, they voted how they were supposed to vote. Ours happened to vote no, those CWAC reps represent the majority of our opinion....it's what they are there to do.


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