# Perch minimum size limit??



## FishFace23 (Sep 2, 2008)

This may be a dumb question....But are the "Jumbos" a diffrent breed of perch, or are they just ones that just were able to grow. And are they always females? Simcoe grows ALOT of large perch, seems to have a ton of competition for food. 

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## Anish (Mar 6, 2009)

FishFace23 said:


> This may be a dumb question....But are the "Jumbos" a diffrent breed of perch, or are they just ones that just were able to grow. And are they always females? Simcoe grows ALOT of large perch, seems to have a ton of competition for food.
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Ohub Campfire mobile app


All the same perch. Takes a good food source and well oxygenated water to grow really big fish.


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## Hartland-Hunter (Jan 2, 2011)

We were up on Hubbard last winter when we were approached by a fisheries person. They were surveying everyone out there to see what they would like the possession limit and size limit to be. He said that they were looking at possibly reducing the possession limit to something like 25 on certain lakes.


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## WALLEYE MIKE (Jan 7, 2001)

FishFace23 said:


> This may be a dumb question....But are the "Jumbos" a diffrent breed of perch, or are they just ones that just were able to grow. And are they always females? Simcoe grows ALOT of large perch, seems to have a ton of competition for food.
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Females do grow larger than males. 10, 11, 12" and larger are more likely to be females than males.


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## justlurking (Dec 14, 2012)

It all depends on how hungry I am. 
Usually only 8" or bigger, but I will clean a bucket full of 6"er's just to catch a quick dinner. I know of a couple lakes where you can load up an lil ones in a half hour.


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## cityboy2977 (Jul 27, 2009)

anything smaller than a fat 7 or 8" is just a pain.
i like the idea of keeping all if you can feed the wildlife or pets. but i dont want ***** or opossums lurking around my house. they are good for 1 thing...target practice.


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## cdavid202 (Jan 29, 2011)

Perch r nasty. You guys should throw alk of them back. Exp the jumbos 




C

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## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

4 points and better and or you have to pass on catching them...


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## flockshot (Feb 23, 2007)

If you guys read a lot if the fisheries reports for some lakes. Perch show up in numbers. But have terrible survival rates. Meaning yes lots. But not stunted. Just all young. Not sure what causes this. But this is from fisheries reports themselves. A lot if inland lakes in se mich have this problem from what I've read. So chances are in some cases they will never hit size no matter if you take them all or throw them all back. It's a lot more complicated as many have said


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## TK81 (Mar 28, 2009)

Perch are prolific spawners and will quickly repopulate a lake that gets "fished out", but perch only get big if there is plentiful food available. Little perch don't have the same diet as jumbos either. Imposing a length limit on lakes with limited forage is bad medicine...unless you want nothing but 4 and 5 inch perch. Same thing goes for bag limits on these waters. Cant manage small to medium water the same way that you would large bodies of water either, like someone said above...no easy remedy.


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## roger23 (Jan 14, 2001)

7 inches on a terrible day ,But usually 8 inches.


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## steelheadbio (Jan 25, 2012)

TK81 said:


> Perch are prolific spawners and will quickly repopulate a lake that gets "fished out", but perch only get big if there is plentiful food available. Little perch don't have the same diet as jumbos either. Imposing a length limit on lakes with limited forage is bad medicine...unless you want nothing but 4 and 5 inch perch. Same thing goes for bag limits on these waters. Cant manage small to medium water the same way that you would large bodies of water either, like someone said above...no easy remedy.



Exactly true about small ones and big ones eating different foods. They start on small zooplankton, move up to bigger zooplankton/bugs, and finish out as fish eaters once big enough. 

Some fisheries people I know believe that young and small perch are directly competing with Zebra/Quagga mussels for zooplankton at some point in their lives. Same thing with Great Lakes Whitefish (they have observed a change whitefish size classes before and after the zebra mussel invasion).

Anytime fish populations (including perch) lack appropriate forage at the appropriate time of year or time of their life it will obviously impact them (and they won't necessarily die). You can end up with two fish the same age that are 5 inches different in length- the bigger fish was able to find appropriate forage when needed and the smaller one couldn't and stayed alive by eating smaller meals. 

Is the same true with the perch? I don't know, but the research would be interesting.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Natural cycles, insecticides, saline %, , HGH, and so many other detailes go into large Perch. The one thing they have at large - healthy Adult size is age. My Dad found one hit by a Nothern in Appleton Lk. In the late 1940's that was over 19". It takes age -if all the other ingredients are available. I like smaller sized Perch, 7" is tough to work with, however if you like the eggs they add a lot of food to the equation. I chose a slot system on which ever Specie I am catching. Unless "wall" quality it swims. Large Specimens of whatever type do not taste as good (my opinion) & are far more valuable as spawners. With all the advancement in technology and equipment the odds are different than when many of the current regulations were adopted. Perhaps it is time for some re-evaluation of sizes/slots/posession limits. There is already some of this happening now, and it looks like more is on the way. Most do not know this, but back in the early-mid 20th Century there were much stricter regulations than now.


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## TK81 (Mar 28, 2009)

All the studies I have read contradict the theory I see put forth here often...that the biggest fish are the best spawners. Everything I have read indicates that spawning success increases to a certain age range and then decreases until death. Fish are not like people. People stop growing by about 1/4th of the way through their lifecycle and just pack on fat after that. Fish on the other hand will continue to get longer (and heavier) as long as they live. So the argument that keeping jumbos (12+ inch perch) will harm the spawn does not seem to hold much water. I say eat em all. 

The lakes around my home all used to grow lots of big perch. Not so much any more. What changed? My theory is that when they ran the sewer system though the area, a lot less nutrients made their way into the water. Less nutrients = more sterile water = smaller perch. And then we add the mussel invasion to the equation and we get even smaller perch.


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## steelheadbio (Jan 25, 2012)

TK81 said:


> All the studies I have read contradict the theory I see put forth here often...that the biggest fish are the best spawners. Everything I have read indicates that spawning success increases to a certain age range and then decreases until death. Fish are not like people. People stop growing by about 1/4th of the way through their lifecycle and just pack on fat after that. Fish on the other hand will continue to get longer (and heavier) as long as they live. So the argument that keeping jumbos (12+ inch perch) will harm the spawn does not seem to hold much water. I say eat em all.


Egg production and fecundity in female fish is typically a function of length- larger body cavity means more room for eggs. Your premise of decreasing fecundity as age increases may be true if the perch are dieing of old age- something that is likely rare. Most fish will die due to predation or disease long before they reach old age (like humans do).

I tend to agree that keeping all the jumbos won't hurt the population long term.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

I would disagree with that. Not all genetics lend themselves to achieving large size. The ability to survive is related to intelligence. If you remove the class of fish that have achieved old age and superior size certainly you are removing those traits from the gene pool. Older smarter Females may spawn more succesfully than younger specimens. I watch Northerns Spawn and the larger Females do not show up until the water is optimum for reproduction/ later in spring, I always see smaller-younger females in the Spawning ground before the last re-freeze, rarely do the large Females show then.


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## raisinrat (Feb 9, 2006)

This is one of my favorite topics, how to manage panfish. I haven written a few articles on this topic over the years. There is some things that need to be kept in mind.I also want to state I do have some background in ichthyology.

Perch are broadcast spawners not nesters like bluegill, crappies, and sunfish. There for their spawning success is more driven by weather then anything. Sexual maturity is reached in 2 to 3 years of age. There peak fertility will depend on there waters they live in. Most will peak at 5 years of age. Perch growth rates can vary greatly. I have seen them reach 11 inches in as little of two years and then barely reach 6 inches in 3 years.

So why the big difference in size? Food is one major factor, the other is genes. Many of our best panfish genes have been lost statewide because of over harvest of the biggest fish in the system. Because of this that is why so many people are starting to really like the ideas of a slot limit. But this will only work if a gene pool still has the "grow big gene" left in it sorta speak.

Another interesting fact that holds true in much of the country, is that where there is big bluegill, sunfish and rock bass there is also a fair number of large perch in a system. Nine inch and up perch prey heavily on young of the year of these fish. This helps keep these species in check and also help protect the bottom of the food web in a lake, which in turn gives their off spring more food in the spring after they hatch out a good 30 to up to 60 days before sunfish. So they get a jump on the food as it starts to show up in a system again after winter has passed.

So what is the answer to this completed problem.Here is the conclusion I have come to after years of research and talking with DNR and other fishery people.

1. Identify where in the state that we have genes left that can grow larger fish. We do this with walleye they move genes from the west side of the state where size avg is higher and move them to areas that produce higher numbers. think of this has a low does steroid over time the avg size will get better. Such has Saginaw all the way down to lake Erie. This practices goes back some 30 years maybe more going by the info I have come across.

2. Stock those genes where they would be needed as long as that lake has the forage base and structure to handle them.

3. Next is to support sound predator management on those lakes which helps every species in that lake grow larger.

4. The last thing I think should be done once everything has been met above and this has never been tried anywhere in the world when we are talking perch. Introduce a slot limit of 6 to 10 inches and have a second slot for managing trophy aka Jumbo Perch. Anything 10 inches and up limit the percent of them that can be part of a limit. So say the perch limit was lowered to 25 fish. All 25 can be the 6 to 10 inch size but you would be limited to say 7 of them that can be in the jumbo slot limit.

I think this could be a happy middle ground between social management of our resources and also the biological part of management. This is just a quick cliff note of my thoughts on this topic.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Good input R.R. . The pond I grew up on has a Sunfish/Panfish stunting issue now. However the Perch are on a upswing. I caught three on topwater (just before a front passed) last summer... All over 12". A changing of the Guard in our Fisheries Biologists is needed to improve our Sunfishes now, that will improve Gamefish by improving primary food size averages and thus eliminating Caloric Debt issues that are prominent in many waters.


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## raisinrat (Feb 9, 2006)

METTLEFISH said:


> Good input R.R. . The pond I grew up on has a Sunfish/Panfish stunting issue now. However the Perch are on a upswing. I caught three on topwater (just before a front passed) last summer... All over 12". A changing of the Guard in our Fisheries Biologists is needed to improve our Sunfishes now, that will improve Gamefish by improving primary food size averages and thus eliminating Caloric Debt issues that are prominent in many waters.


How is your largemouth population?What kind of size do you guys see? The 18 inch and up largemouth feed the heaviest on Sunfish in the 3 to 5 inch range of any other largemouth size. Lake La Su An Wildlife has regs where you can't take a Largemouth over 18 inches. On some of there lakes 40% of there bluegill harvest is of 8 inches or more for the year with some hitting the 11 inch mark. So if you have lots of that size might want to look into that and also maybe channel catfish stocking, that has shown to help reduce bluegill numbers which in turn will help the overall size of them down the road.

Its all about getting a balance in the pond.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

LMB are high in numbers. However fish over 18" are showing stunting. High numbers of Northern too, stunting present there as well. Decades of both US Fisheries Department and U of M Fisheries management were ruined when some rules failed to be printed with the new rule books. It has higher than average spawning areas, no Carp, no motors churning beds and low fertility. It is Spring fed. They installed sewers around 1990, a marked drop in fertility is shown in graphs immediately afterwards.

With the high amount of available spawning areas it produces high numbers of fry. Now, throw in Milfoil that provides an over abundance of cover, low fertility , inadequate numbers of yearling Pike and Bass to provide adequate predation and as has been the case with the body of water in the 1930's ,40's 50's it is stunted. In years past when stunting was not an issue you holes would be filled Plankton at night, literally thousands in your hole. Now there is very little Plankton.
P. S. Similar Perch management to what you desire has been Implemented on Lk. Gogebic in the U.P. .


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## raisinrat (Feb 9, 2006)

METTLEFISH said:


> LMB are high in numbers. However fish over 18" are showing stunting. High numbers of Northern too, stunting present there as well. Decades of both US Fisheries Department and U of M Fisheries management were ruined when some rules failed to be printed with the new rule books. It has higher than average spawning areas, no Carp, no motors churning beds and low fertility. It is Spring fed. They installed sewers around 1990, a marked drop in fertility is shown in graphs immediately afterwards.
> 
> With the high amount of available spawning areas it produces high numbers of fry. Now, throw in Milfoil that provides an over abundance of cover, low fertility , inadequate numbers of yearling Pike and Bass to provide adequate predation and as has been the case with the body of water in the 1930's ,40's 50's it is stunted. In years past when stunting was not an issue you holes would be filled Plankton at night, literally thousands in your hole. Now there is very little Plankton.
> P. S. Similar Perch management to what you desire has been Implemented on Lk. Gogebic in the U.P. .


What it sounds like is you have a problem with weeds which is the cause of stunning. I would guess it happen to the predators first because they had a harder time finding prey. Which then meant more panfish made it every year. Which then over browsed their food sources causing them to become stunted.

In this cause management of the weeds would be the first step maybe removing the storm drains coming straight unit it would be a good idea. 


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## Ann Arbor Hokie (Oct 6, 2011)

This is an awesome post. Nothing to add, just wanted to thank you for contributing.



raisinrat said:


> This is one of my favorite topics, how to manage panfish. I haven written a few articles on this topic over the years. There is some things that need to be kept in mind.I also want to state I do have some background in ichthyology.
> 
> Perch are broadcast spawners not nesters like bluegill, crappies, and sunfish. There for their spawning success is more driven by weather then anything. Sexual maturity is reached in 2 to 3 years of age. There peak fertility will depend on there waters they live in. Most will peak at 5 years of age. Perch growth rates can vary greatly. I have seen them reach 11 inches in as little of two years and then barely reach 6 inches in 3 years.
> 
> ...


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Aquatic plants are not much of an issue as they are and have been managed since detection. Lack of fertility (Spring fed) and the over harvest of large predator species leading to over population of Sunfishes is and has been identified is the problem. It is well documented. A return to protection for large and small Predators and placing lots of brush/trees in the water will help. Lakefront Urbanization (Dr. Hal Schramm) has also been identified as an issue.


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## raisinrat (Feb 9, 2006)

METTLEFISH said:


> Aquatic plants are not much of an issue as they are and have been managed since detection. Lack of fertility (Spring fed) and the over harvest of large predator species leading to over population of Sunfishes is and has been identified is the problem. It is well documented. A return to protection for large and small Predators and placing lots of brush/trees in the water will help. Lakefront Urbanization (Dr. Hal Schramm) has also been identified as an issue.


So they got the 1st step done from the sounds of things. Looks like you have a up hill battle what ever lake this is.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

poachers are the biggest threat. it has worked for decades and will in the future.


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## Chad Smith (Dec 13, 2008)

I never understood why we could keep 50 in the first place when spawning occurs at the same time as pike, never made sense to pull the big fish out before they can spawn and reproduce plus every lake as bluegill not every lake has perch. Should be a 25 fish limit or slot size like mentioned above. A couple guys who know how to perch fish can totally deplete a lake of its perch and the dnr as far as I know doesn't stock perch, they should imo.


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## Chad Smith (Dec 13, 2008)

And my wife and I were just talking about this, maybe only keep so many females or no females over 11". Something should be done to preserve the species and but no one complains except those who notice their lakes they fish regularly notice a steady decline in the perch pop.


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## raisinrat (Feb 9, 2006)

Chad Smith said:


> And my wife and I were just talking about this, maybe only keep so many females or no females over 11". Something should be done to preserve the species and but no one complains except those who notice their lakes they fish regularly notice a steady decline in the perch pop.


I have been in the DNRs ear asking for panfish management for sometime. The problem is that panfish are food fish not a gamefish in the eyes of many fisherman in the state. 

One of the easiest things we can do is adjust crappies and give them a size limit.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

raisinrat said:


> I have been in the DNRs ear asking for panfish management for sometime. The problem is that panfish are food fish not a gamefish in the eyes of many fisherman in the state.
> 
> One of the easiest things we can do is adjust crappies and give them a size limit.
> 
> ...


I too have written, voiced concerns and....they simply do not care. Their overwhelming answer is I am talking about QUALITY fishing opportunities. Their concern is fishing opportunities. One day when the fisheries are in a state of collapse (see Lk.MI. Perch) they maybe then will realize what has been going on with the "lessor" fishes. Trout and closing accessibility to the average Angler is paramount to them. Trout ponds for the Elite Fly Anglers is their mission. I would argue that Angler hours for Panfish far out weigh the hours for non Indigeonous Trout.(s) As I already mentioned, most Biologists and people I've spoken with never heard of the seasons and quite restrictive limits that once were provided the States Sunfishes. This was prior to Monofiliment lines, flashers, and all the other modern tools the Angler now has to utilize.


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## WALLEYE MIKE (Jan 7, 2001)

Chad Smith said:


> I never understood why we could keep 50 in the first place when spawning occurs at the same time as pike, *never made sense to pull the big fish out before they can spawn and reproduce *plus every lake as bluegill not every lake has perch. Should be a 25 fish limit or slot size like mentioned above. A couple guys who know how to perch fish can totally deplete a lake of its perch and the dnr as far as I know doesn't stock perch, they should imo.


 Makes no difference when they are harvested, they are still out of the system. Take them out in the fall, they are not there in the spring. Take them out after they spawn, not there next year. Take them out in the summer, not there next spring.

The problem is not population but everyone wants big ones but not little ones.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

WALLEYE MIKE said:


> Makes no difference when they are harvested, they are still out of the system. Take them out in the fall, they are not there in the spring. Take them out after they spawn, not there next year. Take them out in the summer, not there next spring.
> 
> The problem is not population but everyone wants big ones but not little ones.


Perhaps he was referring to taking CONCENTRATED fish. Surely they are more susceptible during their Spawning cycle when large numbers of fish are tightly quartered. I believe some fish are protected during their Spawning Cycles.


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## rico1391 (Dec 12, 2007)

METTLEFISH said:


> Natural cycles, insecticides, saline %, , HGH, and so many other detailes go into large Perch. The one thing they have at large - healthy Adult size is age. My Dad found one hit by a Nothern in Appleton Lk. In the late 1940's that was over 19". It takes age -if all the other ingredients are available. I like smaller sized Perch, 7" is tough to work with, however if you like the eggs they add a lot of food to the equation. I chose a slot system on which ever Specie I am catching. Unless "wall" quality it swims. Large Specimens of whatever type do not taste as good (my opinion) & are far more valuable as spawners. With all the advancement in technology and equipment the odds are different than when many of the current regulations were adopted. Perhaps it is time for some re-evaluation of sizes/slots/posession limits. There is already some of this happening now, and it looks like more is on the way. Most do not know this, but back in the early-mid 20th Century there were much stricter regulations than now.


Sorry Mettlefish, but HGH? You made me laugh, lol


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## Quig7557 (Dec 31, 2008)

The prolific feeders grow the fastest and get the biggest of a given species. If we are removing the biggest are we over time genetically changing the fish size, leaving the less prolific feeders. 
I believe trout unlimited found this to be the case on some trout streams, not sure if it carries over to lake and panfish.


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## Chad Smith (Dec 13, 2008)

Perch spawn at ice out, most of us know that but during the ice season the perch put on the feed bag and prepare to spawn. In the winter where any swinging richard can walk out on any lake and take 50 perch day after day after day is bs but is legal, people don't neccasarly need to change, the law needs to change.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

METTLEFISH said:


> One day when the fisheries are in a state of collapse (see Lk.MI. Perch) they maybe then will realize what has been going on with the "lessor" fishes. .


The collapse of the fishery on Lake Michigan and a few other inland lakes including Higgins is directly related to noxious invasives .... Alewives,smelt, mussels etc. in various mixtures, and their effect at the bottom of the food chain.

The mdnr needs to stop managing for invasive and start managing against them. 

Need an example.... Look at the changes in Lake Huron with the demise of smelt and alewives.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

rico1391 said:


> Sorry Mettlefish, but HGH? You made me laugh, lol


Do some raeding. It has been found in water samples and is believed to effect Fishes, same with other Hormones used in Beef. Effecting Sexuality in fishes.
Treatment plants do not remove from water before discharge.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

swampbuck said:


> The collapse of the fishery on Lake Michigan and a few other inland lakes including Higgins is directly related to noxious invasives .... Alewives,smelt, mussels etc. in various mixtures, and their effect at the bottom of the food chain.
> 
> The mdnr needs to stop managing for invasive and start managing against them.
> 
> Need an example.... Look at the changes in Lake Huron with the demise of smelt and alewives.


To some extent yes. However some invasives actually end up in the food chain. As I recall with the Lk. MI. collaps it was thought over harvesting was the primary cause.

That is a good example, both Alewife & Smelt are invasives.


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## river rat78 (Dec 30, 2010)

Quig7557 said:


> The prolific feeders grow the fastest and get the biggest of a given species. If we are removing the biggest are we over time genetically changing the fish size, leaving the less prolific feeders.
> I believe trout unlimited found this to be the case on some trout streams, not sure if it carries over to lake and panfish.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


I've read articals that say you want to keep the big ones in the system to prevent stunting to occur. During the spawning period the small ones focus more on eating and not spawning.


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## raisinrat (Feb 9, 2006)

river rat78 said:


> I've read articals that say you want to keep the big ones in the system to prevent stunting to occur. During the spawning period the small ones focus more on eating and not spawning.


That primarily holds true for nest builders, which perch are not.Now with that said I'm going to say that the larger fish don't push the little guys off the best spawn areas.


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## TK81 (Mar 28, 2009)

steelheadbio said:


> Egg production and fecundity in female fish is typically a function of length- larger body cavity means more room for eggs. Your premise of decreasing fecundity as age increases may be true if the perch are dieing of old age- something that is likely rare. Most fish will die due to predation or disease long before they reach old age (like humans do).
> 
> I tend to agree that keeping all the jumbos won't hurt the population long term.


I stumbled into this post on Lake Erie walleyes from Fred Snyder of the Ohio SeaGrant Extension

"Division of Wildlife studies have shown consistently that most female Lake Erie walleye reach sexual maturity at age four; most of the males are ripe at two or three years old. Of course, a few fish always vary from the norm; age at maturity can be affected by things like food availability and growth rate. In a few certain years the females have all been mature by age three. 

*A widely acknowledged principle in fishery science is that while long-lived fish species may produce more eggs as they get older and larger, the percentage of those eggs that are viable (capable of being fertilized and incubating into normal fry) drops off significantly.* That's why hatcheries tend to rotate broodstock on a regular basis, replacing older females with youger ones. 

The word "fecundity" refers to the numbers of eggs produced. The word "fertility" refers to the number of actual offspring produced. After reaching sexual maturity, Lake Erie walleye are likely to be at peak fertility for around three to five years. Their peak fecundity may occur later."

Would this apply to perch as well?


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## steelheadbio (Jan 25, 2012)

TK81 said:


> *A widely acknowledged principle in fishery science is that while long-lived fish species may produce more eggs as they get older and larger, the percentage of those eggs that are viable (capable of being fertilized and incubating into normal fry) drops off significantly.* That's why hatcheries tend to rotate broodstock on a regular basis, replacing older females with youger ones.
> 
> The word "fecundity" refers to the numbers of eggs produced. The word "fertility" refers to the number of actual offspring produced. After reaching sexual maturity, Lake Erie walleye are likely to be at peak fertility for around three to five years. Their peak fecundity may occur later."
> 
> Would this apply to perch as well?



In response to the bolded quote- yep, that's absolutely true. It's a problem in hatcheries that use *captive broodstock*. Probably not as big of an issue with wild stocks, as natural mortality is higher. They also specify *long-lived species*, and I'm not sure if perch qualify. I've seen wild perch aged out to 13+ years, but that's an extreme example. If I had to guess, I'm thinking the quote refers more to species like lake sturgeon.

Do perch follow the same fertility/fecundity pattern as walleye? I honestly don't know the answer. Probably, but they are a shorter lived faster growing species and all patterns won't play out the same way as slower growing longer lived walleye. I should investigate this more.

Edit: Another thing to consider: it doesn't matter how big the females are, or how many eggs are produced if there is an early mortality problem that is killing eggs or fry. You could have a population of 14 inch females in a pond and never harvest a single fish, and yet still have a declining population if there is a bottleneck elsewhere.


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## pdp3 (Oct 21, 2009)

It is so funny that we're having this discussion I used to make fun of my brother he would keep and call them verchs but hey this year I joined him. Plam my hand to index finger a keeper. .lol

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## pdp3 (Oct 21, 2009)

WALLEYE MIKE said:


> Females do grow larger than males. 10, 11, 12" and larger are more likely to be females than males.










pdp3 said:


> It is so funny that we're having this discussion I used to make fun of my brother he would keep and call them verchs. but hey this year I joined him. Plam my hand to index finger a keeper. .lol
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Ohub Campfire mobile app




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## TK81 (Mar 28, 2009)

Thanks Steelheadbio, I thought I had seen a couple studies stating the the biggest females were not the best spawners, but could not remember if those studies were species specific. I googled for a few minutes back when this thread got started, but couldn't find anything to support what I could have sworn I had read. Anyway, when I stumbled on the walleye thread, it rekindled the memory of the "perch size limit" thread. If you have any links to perch studies, I would sure like to read up.


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## steelheadbio (Jan 25, 2012)

TK81 said:


> Thanks Steelheadbio, I thought I had seen a couple studies stating the the biggest females were not the best spawners, but could not remember if those studies were species specific. I googled for a few minutes back when this thread got started, but couldn't find anything to support what I could have sworn I had read. Anyway, when I stumbled on the walleye thread, it rekindled the memory of the "perch size limit" thread. If you have any links to perch studies, I would sure like to read up.


I can do some digging. Unfortunately, perch were one of those species that no one cared about until they crashed, and as far as I know, there wasn't a lot of research interest until the crash.

Speculating: the perch crash in the late 80s *may *be related to zebra mussel invasions that occurred at the same time. Zebra mussels filter out the same zooplankton that young perch need as they are converting from yolk-sac fry to feeding fry. A reduction in growth at critical stages can permanently affect fish length as an adult. 

A former co-worker of mine found a similar trend occurring in the lake whitefish populations (decline in condition factor/size after zebra mussel invasion).

Illinois Natural History Survey (the research wing of their DNR) has a big perch study on the Illinois waters of Lake Michigan here's links to their site:

http://wwx.inhs.illinois.edu/fieldstations/lmbs/yellowperch/

The INHS link supports my Zebra Mussel claims.


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## steelheadbio (Jan 25, 2012)

TK81 said:


> Thanks Steelheadbio, I thought I had seen a couple studies stating the the biggest females were not the best spawners, but could not remember if those studies were species specific. I googled for a few minutes back when this thread got started, but couldn't find anything to support what I could have sworn I had read. Anyway, when I stumbled on the walleye thread, it rekindled the memory of the "perch size limit" thread. If you have any links to perch studies, I would sure like to read up.


Perch are also one of those species that we haven't had in aquaculture facilities until recently. It is unlikely that anyone would have good data on fecundity/fertility of perch by size unless they were rearing them. Perch did well enough in the wild that Natural Resource departments didn't need to supplement the wild stocks.

Recently, Bell Aquaculture of Indiana has made some fantastic leaps in commercial perch aquaculture. They use very sound scientific research in managing their stocks and they might have some interesting info, but I don't know how public the data is.


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## raisinrat (Feb 9, 2006)

It looks like Alewife may also be playing a major rule in the decline of yellow perch on Lake Michigan . 

It sounds to me that Alewife had reduced the recruitment strength in that population. And then when the Zebra mussel came along it made things right for a crash. So now since zebra mussel are starting to scale back thanks in part to the round goby and other fish learning to eat them. There has been a increase in zooplankton in the system.but the lake still has a long ways to go on that front before we see a strong population over on that side.

From the looks of things on St. Clair we are seeing a weaker year class in the system right of adults more then likely from a poor spawn a 3 to 5 years ago. Which I would guess was caused by weather.

On Lake Erie I am going to go out on a limb here and say that once the power plant in Luna pier is closed down I would guess there will be a nice increase of perch in that area of the lake. There is a very strong number of larger adult fish that winter in that area right now but I feel that the water temps are not right in some of the best spawning grounds in that area because of the warm water from the power plant. 

Another thing that has happen in that area is all the dam work in the river raisin. This has now given yellow perch and walleye access to spawning areas that they have been cut of from for many years. I know that these two species have already been caught in areas they have not been in 30 plus years.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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