# DNR Wildlife Chief Lies To Deer Hunters



## USST164 (May 6, 2008)

It turns out the " Need " for an antlerless deer hunting permit lottery is a lie & and a money grab.

http://michigan.gov/documents/dnr/Antlerless_Public_Private_FINAL_4.28.08_233063_7.pdf

The wildlife chief said 16 DMU's were sold out the first day. A lie

35 DMU's were sold out before Mid Nov.--- a lie

From the documents provided by the DNR records department , there were NO DMU's sold out in 2007.


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## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

USST164 said:


> From the documents provided by the DNR records department , there were NO DMU's sold out in 2007.


The records you have must be wrong. I know for a fact that Osceola County has sold out the first day each of the last two years.

Here is a thread from last year. The original poster is a bait shop owner up north and sells licenses. He listed at least 3 counties that had sold out the first day. http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=196681

I'm sure if you do a search around the same time frame you can find other people who couldn't get antlerless permits because they were sold out


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## .480 (Feb 21, 2006)

Nice that the dnr has two sets of different records.
Kind of like their accountants books. lol


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## USST164 (May 6, 2008)

.480 said:


> Nice that the dnr has two sets of different records.
> Kind of like their accountants books. lol


.480 , your correct , but it's no joke. Think for a second , thousands of permits were sold out on the first day in 17 different DMU's ... thats where it's funny . We are suppose to believe that. I'll post some links if they're passed on to me.


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## .480 (Feb 21, 2006)

Just like last year I thought that you could only buy TWO antlerless tags in the U.P., but I talked to a few guys that said that they bought over 10 tags.
They just went to the gas stations and they kept buying tags all throughout the season.


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## USST164 (May 6, 2008)

USST164 said:


> It turns out the " Need " for an antlerless deer hunting permit lottery is a lie & and a money grab.
> 
> http://michigan.gov/documents/dnr/Antlerless_Public_Private_FINAL_4.28.08_233063_7.pdf
> 
> ...


Here's a link to the DMU info... good luck finding sold out DMU's , NOT just on the first day , but any day. Also the idea floating that some were buying dozens at a time doesn't hold water.



So this " plan ' for an antlerless lottery is a money grab scam... Rip - off.

Your being lied to AGAIN by the money grubbing bureaucrats.


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## USST164 (May 6, 2008)

So when you look over the documents provided by the government's record division , you'll see only 4 DMU's on public land got to or slightly above the government quota. On private land, not one DMU got to it's quota.

If you add all the individual hunters who bought antlerless permits and charged them $4 , you see it comes out to a low seven digit amount.... Free money to the DNR , when it was proposed on a giant lie.


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## wildcoy73 (Mar 2, 2004)

must be a missprint in that form, I went to sevral retailers last year and looked at the map and had quite a few areas sold out. and even looked at the print out and seen the same thing. doe tags do sell out up north and go rather quickly.


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## USST164 (May 6, 2008)

It wouldn't surprise me that this was a planned out exercise to shake out money from the naïve sportsmen. The DNR controls what's said to the retailers , in this case give the false impression that these permits are a hot commodity , NOW we can con the sportsmen into thinking they need a lottery just to participate in this alleged hot commodity.

The documents were provided by the State of Michigan , the DNR has 3 weeks to think up damage control. 

Like the need to raise license fees over 100% last year because of a funding shortfall , when they really had a surplus in funds .

Now some questions were asked about $75 million missing , but suddenly nobody wants to talk about that $75 million inside the DNR. This could turn out to be a total swing in funding at the DNR in the area of $100 million , when you toss in the $20 million swing earlier in the year.

Remember this governor wanted to shutdown the state of Michigan , after that stunt broke the will of the Republican Party , they reluctantly raised taxes. But low and behold they found somewhere in the neighborhood of $500 million right after they cram those tax increases down the throats of the citizens.

It's a miracle.... No , it's the lowlife's in charge.

I pity anyone who wants to believe this government.


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## USST164 (May 6, 2008)

If anyone wishes to contact the DNR record division on the sales of antlerless deer permits for 2007 ... Try this contact person.

http://mich.gov/som/0,1607,7-192--162562--,00.html

Lets see if they got to that person... instant amnesia perhaps.


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## USST164 (May 6, 2008)

Looks like the DNR records division has provided proof that NO private property DMU sold out of antlerless deer permits in the entire season . The data for 2004 through 2007 states NO DMU sold out on private lands for FOUR YEARS , any words from the top of the DNR otherwise ... is a lie.


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## .480 (Feb 21, 2006)

Yup,
Just like it takes the dnr over FIVE months to tell us what the previous deer season's kill numbers are.

They should be able to tell us in JANUARY what the kill was, NOT wait until JUNE!

It's all just a guess anyways. 

Can any dnr employee's out here, past or present, explain to us WHY there are sooooooo many different numbers floating around about these doe tag issues???????


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## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

.480 said:


> explain to us WHY there are sooooooo many different numbers floating around about these doe tag issues???????


I've never worked for the DNR but I have some theories. Since the tag system is pretty much run entirely by computers, there is probably some type of cut-off point programmed into the system. If you think about it, anyone with a computer can purchase a license on-line or go to any license retailer whose system is also being run by computer. When antlerless licenses go on sale, the server is probably overburdened and can't refresh itself as fast. Therefore, after a DMU sells a certain amount of licenses, there is probably a breaking point of how many license are being sold per minute vs how long it takes for it to refresh itself. The computer takes into account what the quota is and how fast they are being sold and, in an effort to not oversell any DMU, stop sales ahead of time. That way, hunters don't get in an uproar over overselling antlerless licenses. 

There was another thread about this in the whitetail section that has since been deleted. In it, one of the members is a license dealer and knew what time a certain DMU "sold-out" of antlerless licenses (don't remember the county but it was MuskyDan who posted it). At that time I did the math for the DMU and found that, for that DMU, license were being sold at a rate of ~35/min. If the server only refreshed itself every 10 min, this county would have oversold its allotment.

To go along with the overburdened server, human error can probably be factored into the equation for fewer license being sold than the quota. Not sure if this is how the DNR system works, but there are probably instances where people at home get tired of waiting for their slowed down computer and in turn hit the return key multiple times in hopes of "speeding" it up. It is quite possible that for each time you hit the return key, at that moment, you are taking an additional antlerless tag (at least in the computer's eyes). To go along with that there are probably license dealers that make mistakes and have to void licenses due to human error. The system is probably so burdened it can't make up for these corrections until after the season has expired.

Like I said, these are just some of my theories and have no basis in fact but seem to make sense to me. I liken it to some days on here when people post the same thread/post 3 times over before they finally see it on their screen.


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## USST164 (May 6, 2008)

.480 said:


> Yup,
> Just like it takes the dnr over FIVE months to tell us what the previous deer season's kill numbers are.
> 
> They should be able to tell us in JANUARY what the kill was, NOT wait until JUNE!
> ...


Think about this , these records are up to the second. They would have to be for the retail machines to have the info allegedly confirming whether a permit is available or not at the retail level.

There's a lot more info inside the DNR then you might think.

Think of this scenario , A CO stops you while you'll are out in the field , but you grabbed the wrong equipment bag. Your license is someplace else , the CO can find out the truth electronically if you ever owned a license. Think about how much information is on the licenses or the permits you buy.

Anyone who wants the truth can contact Brian Frawley at the DNR , if they haven't sewn his mouth shut. Or attend the next NRC meeting , it looks like some members of the Legislature will have those documents with them.


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## USST164 (May 6, 2008)

Radar420 said:


> I've never worked for the DNR but I have some theories. Since the tag system is pretty much run entirely by computers, there is probably some type of cut-off point programmed into the system. If you think about it, anyone with a computer can purchase a license on-line or go to any license retailer whose system is also being run by computer. When antlerless licenses go on sale, the server is probably overburdened and can't refresh itself as fast. Therefore, after a DMU sells a certain amount of licenses, there is probably a breaking point of how many license are being sold per minute vs how long it takes for it to refresh itself. The computer takes into account what the quota is and how fast they are being sold and, in an effort to not oversell any DMU, stop sales ahead of time. That way, hunters don't get in an uproar over overselling antlerless licenses.
> 
> There was another thread about this in the whitetail section that has since been deleted. In it, one of the members is a license dealer and knew what time a certain DMU "sold-out" of antlerless licenses (don't remember the county but it was MuskyDan who posted it). At that time I did the math for the DMU and found that, for that DMU, license were being sold at a rate of ~35/min. If the server only refreshed itself every 10 min, this county would have oversold its allotment.
> 
> ...


Or someone has access to the computer system that is the façade for the permit system . They deliberately create computerized shortages so they can cram another permit fee down the throats of the public.

The idea of one permit per day would instantly halt most shenanigans.


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## USST164 (May 6, 2008)

A timely letter to the editor with the facts.

http://www.deltacd.org/Letters.aspx?ID=293


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