# I feel sick



## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

Went to check out one of my local streams today and found the west bank has been cleacut and all trees and brush removed about 15 yds from the bank. No more shade or cover. Kind of wondering what the purpose is. This will definately not help thr trout.


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## Boardman Brookies (Dec 20, 2007)

Is it on private property? State land? I would look into that. Those roots hold the soil in place and without it the sediment load will mess things up. That really sucks.


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

Talked to a guy I know that is a riperian owner. He said the county drain commission did it. They took no public input and sent out the release only 6 days ahead. Went through and cut down all the trees along the bank. I guess it was not very popular with the landowners.


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## JBooth (Sep 21, 2009)

If you are curious about he sediment implications search google scholar for " Yellowstone fire sediment run off" or similar terms. Almost went to grad school under the guy studying sediment runoff in Yellowstone as a response to wildfire. Would be very similar in this case.


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

Man, I hear you. Maybe check in with the DNR on this, not everything the counties/townships do is up to snuff. Nothing messes up a stream like "bank improvement" stuff like that.


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## riverman (Jan 9, 2002)

Alot of "streams" are actually drains that were dredged years ago to drain the swamp called Michigan. In the past years a concentrated effort has been made to remove the spoils that have made those drains less effcient. Tile line outlets on my farm were almost a foot under water and were not draining. After dredging most are back to thier orignial positions six to twenty inches above water. The results for drainage has been remarkable. I can understand your dissapointment, but please remember a man made stream is and will be a drain and should always remain that way.


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## Benzie Rover (Mar 17, 2008)

Riverman - you raise a good point, but I suspect this was not a drainage ditch, given it was someone's favorite stream under gear regs - none of the designated trout streams, that I am aware of, are also managed as drainage ditches by the local road commssions. From what I've noticed the DNR did a decent job of not designating managed drainage ditches when the classified streams under the current system. You may know of an exception to that though. 

The bottomline is that Road Commssions are exempt from most environmental laws and they typically operate on a cowboy mentality, particularily up north here. We just had them authorize brine dumping on county roads right next to tribs that drain into the Platte River a couple weeks ago :tdo12:. Road commissions focus on transportation, all other aspects are secondary at best. Couple that with the 'boys with great big toys' mentality that comes with heavy machinary and you get some pretty ugly results from time to time. 

Best thing to do now is be proactive and help restore the riparian bank with some fast growing willow, alder or red oisers. The sunlight can actually help improve stream productivity, provided there is enough shade or cold spring water to compenstate for the solar heating. If you stablize the bank you may just find that the area fishes better in a few years, but definately focus on establishing rooted plants ASAP.


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## riverman (Jan 9, 2002)

Road commission has nothing to do with streams. That is why there is a drain commission. The streams I am taliking about are mostly in the southern half of MI. where the orginal post was made. The way these drains are being cleaned is to disturb the banks as little as possible. Trees and large shrubs have to be removed(on one side only) to allow the hoe to dig and swing, but little, and I mean little digging into establish banks is allowed unless some staightening is aproved. After the spoils have been leveled ALL exposed dirt HAS to have a fast establishing grass seeding applied. Yes, it can be ugly at first, but in a year that is gone.


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## Benzie Rover (Mar 17, 2008)

riverman said:


> Road commission has nothing to do with streams. That is why there is a drain commission. The streams I am taliking about are mostly in the southern half of MI. where the orginal post was made. The way these drains are being cleaned is to disturb the banks as little as possible. Trees and large shrubs have to be removed(on one side only) to allow the hoe to dig and swing, but little, and I mean little digging into establish banks is allowed unless some staightening is aproved. After the spoils have been leveled ALL exposed dirt HAS to have a fast establishing grass seeding applied. Yes, it can be ugly at first, but in a year that is gone.


Southern MI streams are not comparable to NW lower as they are predominately surface water based systems that are critical to drainage of ag lands and transporation corridors. Most of them are managed as drainage ditches and this sounds like the case here. We have a drain commissioner up this way, but that is about it up here. There is no 'Drain Commission' in our case, it's one dude up here. Any work done on any stream or drainage system is done by the Road Commission in NW lower.


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## carsonr2 (Jan 15, 2009)

Drain Commissioner is an outdated elected position that needs to be eliminated in this State. The position at the minimum should entail a knowledge of hydrology and basic engineering, but the only requirement for the elected position is to be a resident and a registered voter.

The Road Commission does assist with County drain work if requested often times, but the drain work is established by the Drain Commissioner and is paid for through assessments of the property owners within the drainage district.

The State Drain Code allows for a yearly assessment of up to $5,000 per linear mile of drain on the property owners within a drainage district for maintenance. This is likely what occurred in this case, as the rules for a board of determination to determine the desired need for the drain project is not necessitated in maintenance cases.

The State Drain Code is a powerful law, giving the drain commissioner more authority than the DEQ in many cases. Basically if a drain is already established or if a Board of Determination agrees with a need for establishment of a drain or a drainage project, the DEQ *has* to provide the permitting to complete the act, unless dire environmental consequences can be displayed that are greater than the general good of the public welfare and safety (flooding, disease, etc.) that would be received through the project.

Depending on who the drain commissioner is for each County, they can be very threatening to the natural environmental state of our wetlands and streams. We have had issues with our drain commissioners "knowing best" in this area, when other local, State and Federal employees are in disagreement with him....but there is little that can be done to stop a drain project due to the strength of the drain code and the drain lobby in Lansing. Trust me I've been in the trenches in a very contentious project recently and every avenue we pursued led to a dead end at the drain code.


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## irishmanusa (Mar 10, 2009)

Great information.


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## ab5228 (Nov 13, 2009)

Is this a grand trib in ionia county? If so, I was disappointed to see this as well.


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## carpslayer (Jan 31, 2009)

Here in sw Michigan they call them drainage ditches! They have the convicts from the local jail go out and pull all the tress out of the water and cut the brush along the sides! 25 yrs ago these streams were awesome to fish and had lots of native fish,now your lucky to see a push of fish up doing what's natural for them! They need to make some changes on what's a actual designated trout steam! 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## STEELHEAD JUNKIE (Feb 20, 2010)

Bottomline not good for the Trout! Sad to see!


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## tannhd (Dec 3, 2010)

I know many drains that are also trout streams.


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## STEELHEAD JUNKIE (Feb 20, 2010)

But the trout don't last long if there is no relief from the heat or cover.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Many times over the years I have seen trout streams look like green kool aid with lamphrey poison. A few days later I see not hundreds but thousands of dead salmon and trout lining the banks.


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

carsonr2 said:


> Drain Commissioner is an outdated elected position that needs to be eliminated in this State. The position at the minimum should entail a knowledge of hydrology and basic engineering, but the only requirement for the elected position is to be a resident and a registered voter.
> 
> The Road Commission does assist with County drain work if requested often times, but the drain work is established by the Drain Commissioner and is paid for through assessments of the property owners within the drainage district.
> 
> ...


Tend to agree. In some counties, drain commissioners view their responsibilities as serving rowcrop farmers first and foremost and the general public takes a back seat. When drain work is done, every shrub and practically every tree adjacent to the drain is removed and the dirt is heavily re-seeded with coolseason grasses, which form a thick sod which can persist indefinitely to the exclusion of woody vegetation which could provide some shading. 

The manner in which drain work is funded in rural areas is simply an income transfer from non-farming landowners who get stiff assessments if drains run through their ground to farm operators who directly benefit from the artificial rapid draining of surface water.

The position of drain commissioner can be near dictatorial. I have a neighbor that has a site on his property which would be spectacular for wetland enhancement, and he'd drafted the plans and submitted the application to build it, but the drain commish had authority to put the kibosh on it, which he did, after the lobbying of nearby farm operators who tend to oppose the existence of any sort of wetland. Of course, the landowner had no right of appeal; the drain commissioner's edict, in this case, superceded the landowner's management autonomy over his own property, even though it could be reasonably argued that the landowner's desires were far more supportive of healthy watersheds/ecosystems what prevails around him.


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## MERGANZER (Aug 24, 2006)

Thats ridiculous when they have the authority to shut down habitat improvements on private land especially when it foesn't effect the neighboring property.

Ganzer


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## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

It is ridiculous, you have people who really have no knowledge of this stuff making these decisions. There are some townships that have constables and these guys have more power than one thinks. For example in Sims Township they used to have constables and some of the one's they had over the years, had no police experience, and frankly were dumber than a stone, and yet they had the power to shut down bars, or arrest you for whatever. That's politics for you though.


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## riverman (Jan 9, 2002)

One of the best things I ever did in my life was to put fifteen years of free service on different boards concerning conservation, water quality, land use and another ten years or so on other boards of different agenda's. You don't like the way somethings are happening THEN "YOU" HAVE THE POWER TO MAKE CHANGES. All it takes is a little of your time, sometimes alot of your time, but I can promise you, you will laugh just as I do, when you read some of the post made on this thread and others. Internet intelligent is so enlightening.:help:


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## carsonr2 (Jan 15, 2009)

riverman said:


> One of the best things I ever did in my life was to put fifteen years of free service on different boards concerning conservation, water quality, land use and another ten years or so on other boards of different agenda's. You don't like the way somethings are happening THEN "YOU" HAVE THE POWER TO MAKE CHANGES. All it takes is a little of your time, sometimes alot of your time, but I can promise you, you will laugh just as I do, when you read some of the post made on this thread and others. Internet intelligent is so enlightening.:help:


Tell me which board oversees the drain commission office?

I'll tell you which one....none. A County Drain Commissioner does not report to a County Board of Commissioners, County Planning Commission, Road Commission, Township/Village Board or Commission. The only board a drain commissioner is involved with is the Board of Determination, which is a 3 member panel that determines the necessity of a drain. Sure they can stop a drain project from being initiated, but this is rather rare since the panel is appointed by the drain commissioner.

This is first-hand knowledge with which I have a great amount of experience.


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