# The field bred english setter room



## kek25

Consider this a place to discuss the countless virtues of the field bred English Setter as the ultimate upland bird dog and consummate companion.

I just couldn't bare the thought of not having a thread dedicated to my beloved Setters. 

Let's give the Spaniel Corner a run for its money. :evilsmile


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## Steelheadfred

Keith,

Is this going to involve a circle and a cookie like the SC?


This is the best English Setter I hunted over this season:


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## N M Mechanical

Steelheadfred said:


> Keith,
> 
> Is this going to involve a circle and a cookie like the SC?
> 
> 
> This is the best English Setter I hunted over this season:


I thought you were going to put a picture of "Tango" up 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gundogguy

Dusty out of Bob Leet's Sleepy the best ES I ever hunted.
ES nation for ever.
Lily a real real cutie


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## kek25

I fear thiat I'm going going to be embarassed by my brother and sister setter owners, as the only comments so far are from a guy that runs labs in the uplands and a guy that runs German dogs in the uplands.

Have to admit, though, that orange and white setter of Kelly's is a nice strong looking boy! I'm partial to the big dogs, as long as they demonstrate stamina and heat tolerance.

I've been out of touch lately. Who are the current go-to studs in the setter world? Anyone working offspring of these studs and care to comment on what they're seeing so far?


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## kek25

gundogguy said:


> Dusty out of Bob Leet's Sleepy the best ES I ever hunted.
> ES nation for ever.
> Lily a real real cutie


 
Sorry, posted too quick. What qualities did Dusty have that made her the best setter you hunted over?


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## N M Mechanical

I ran a setter pup this fall from Dave Terheer(sp) that I would feed. I know Finders Keeper has a litter mate and both are in arizona as I type with Vance chasing quail
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gundogguy

kek25 said:


> Sorry, posted too quick. What qualities did Dusty have that made her the best setter you hunted over?


Dusty boy handled like butter, ran big on the prairie drop his range in grouse covers, perfectly staunch and broke. Hunted naked other than small cowbell in September. Worked well we 5 different spaniels that did his picking. Always a spot in my mind for Dusty.


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## dauber

kek25 said:


> Consider this a place to discuss the countless virtues of the field bred English Setter as the ultimate upland bird dog and consummate companion.
> 
> I just couldn't bare the thought of not having a thread dedicated to my beloved Setters.
> 
> Let's give the Spaniel Corner a run for its money. :evilsmile


 
Nice job kek! Hope you can outdo the spaniel corner!


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## k9wernet

Spaniels get a corner; setters get a room... 

Might I propose we build a stadium to discuss the superiority of pointers? :evilsmile


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## Worm Dunker

I'll post later. Grampa has to go now. I'll look at the thousands of dog pictures I have and hopefully can find lots to post. You can go to Hunting Dogs.com I have a couple hundred posted there.


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## kellyM87

kek25 said:


> Have to admit, though, that orange and white setter of Kelly's is a nice strong looking boy! I'm partial to the big dogs, as long as they demonstrate stamina and heat tolerance.


Thank you  I like him... He is young but shows a lot of promise


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## Dave Medema

I've not much to add except my ROPOSFT setters seem to find me enough grouse to allow a few meals if I do my part.


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## FieldWalker

kek25 said:


> Consider this a place to discuss the countless virtues of the field bred English Setter as the ultimate upland bird dog and consummate companion.
> 
> I just couldn't bare the thought of not having a thread dedicated to my beloved Setters.
> 
> Let's give the Spaniel Corner a run for its money. :evilsmile


Keith,

Do you know anywhere that setters are currently trialing in herding dog trials? :evilsmile:evilsmile:evilsmile


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## WestCoastHunter

Kelly, you got that dog out of Oregon right? Is he a Tekoa Mountain dog?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kellyM87

WestCoastHunter said:


> Kelly, you got that dog out of Oregon right? Is he a Tekoa Mountain dog?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
Yes.

Tekoa Mountain Patriot x Tekoa Mountain Sunrays.


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## WestCoastHunter

Thanks. Since they're effectively "down the road" for me now it's nice to have a point of reference with one of their dogs on grouse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kellyM87

WestCoastHunter said:


> Thanks. Since they're effectively "down the road" for me now it's nice to have a point of reference with one of their dogs on grouse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


your living in Oregon now? did I understand that right? They are born and bred wild bird dogs..... I imagine that the habitat that the bird lived in wouldn't change that.... I hoped anyways... but I think atleast with mine I was right.


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## WestCoastHunter

kellyM87 said:


> your living in Oregon now? did I understand that right? They are born and bred wild bird dogs..... I imagine that the habitat that the bird lived in wouldn't change that.... I hoped anyways... but I think atleast with mine I was right.


Washington, right across the river from Portland. Moved in September. Totally screwed my hunting season...that and the baby. Oh well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NATTY BUMPO

kek25 said:


> Let's give the Spaniel Corner a run for its money. :evilsmile


BEST of LUCK, Keith.

You only have 99 pages to go!!:evil:

NB


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## Fix_F16

Here's Hanna, my first (hopefully of many) setter. I got her as a started dog out of TerHaar kennels. She's out of Rocko (Grouse Ridge lines) and Cooper Mountain Pepsi (2009 Seminatore Winner). I was in Afghanistan last year so this was our first season together. We had a lot of fun this year. 


Photo taken by Dave TerHaar











Our first hunt ever












Wet boots and dog












Woodcock opener 2012


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## Jay Johnson




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## Jay Johnson




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## Jay Johnson




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## kek25

Excellent photos, Jay. Setters at work.

Fix - Hanna is a really nice looking dog. Rocko - direct son of Reroy. Everyone knows I have a soft spot for Reroy dogs.


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## Merimac

This is my brother and sister with our Sam L Rebel X Wonsover Dogs.


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## Merimac

Myself My Brother and our dog Suzy.


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## Bobby

Mike McDonald said:


> If we aspire to the Spaniel thread of 100 + pages, we're going to need a lot of" I agree/ Woo Hoo/ Way to go/ x2/ Count me in/ and all the other pertinent posts that spaniel lovers feel the need to make. mac


You da man



2ESRGR8 said:


> Great post mac....woo hoo way to go.


u 2



Mike McDonald said:


> Very proud of my young male setter Boone. Last night he humped his mother, aunt, and sister back to back to back. He would have had a grand slam but his granddad Reed wasn't having any. Mac


One of the puppies we sold was named Humphrey, humpin' fool right out of the womb. He was also the biggest of the bunch.


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## Bobby

Lot of chestnut colored setters in those older pictures. Don't see many these days. I can only think of 2 I've seen in person and one is no longer with us. The other is a puppy.


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## Bobby

WWWDP (post)
That Jake dog and Abby dog of Wormdunker are very nice moving dogs, nice looking. I never hunted behind them but I was there when Jake earned his only ribbon. Well built and nice on the ground.


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## Bobby

I don't think this Katherine Webb is as hot as advertised. She's not ugly, she's just not smokin'. 
Does she run setters? That would make a difference.


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## Merimac

Bobby said:


> I don't think this Katherine Webb is as hot as advertised. She's not ugly, she's just not smokin'.
> Does she run setters? That would make a difference.


Who is Katherine Webb?


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## 2ESRGR8

Bobby said:


> I don't think this Katherine Webb is as hot as advertised.


****.


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## Merimac

Merimac said:


> Who is Katherine Webb?


http://www.pageantupdate.info/photoarchives/images/miss/2012/swimsuits/AL.jpg

I figured it out. I guess I would not bother me if she had a house full of hamsters let alone what kind of dog she has.


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## midwestfisherman

Bobby said:


>


Spawn of Satan?


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## midwestfisherman

kek25 said:


> Just so we're clear, when I said this thread is about field bred setters I meant setters actually conceived in the field, not through incestuous relations at home.


Well that just takes all of the fun out of it!  ne_eye:


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## hehibrits

Bobby said:


> I don't think this Katherine Webb is as hot as advertised. She's not ugly, she's just not smokin'.
> Does she run setters? That would make a difference.


Not that hot...with or without setters. 

Carry on.......


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## kellyM87

Just love this photo......










At the line... Wild Pheasant Hunting.


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## Brian121208

Cool pic Kelly, I'm a Setter guy, but I would feed that Alie dog If Brian Let me. Two nice dogs there.


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## Brian121208

Great pics everybody! Keep em comin. Maybe I will lern to put pics on here some day too.


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## Worm Dunker

[/IMG]
This post will be the last of my setters. I saved Hunter(Dunn Roven's Grouse Getter) last because he is my brag dog. He's not my best setter but my best chance to win a championship and get invited to the big dance the Invatational. This is the first setter I've had that's heavy in grouse ridge but still was lines back to Stoakly. Sired by 6X CH 4X RU Shady Hills Billy the only dog to win the Mi. Woodcock twice. His mother has a blue hen from Rich Holester Dunn Roven. Her breeding is a lot of Ghost and the Decathlon man. My only dislike of Hunter is he is a pocket rocket and some place back I think somebody slipped in some Silver Bullet!!!
I herd pocket rocket can be blamed by Mi. breeders.They cleaned up in Mi but couldn't win any place else. Back to the brag. Hunter's first win was the 2007 Mi. Hunting Classic at 6 mon. he had 5 fines and was the only puppy entered. He has placed twice at Duois puppy and derby, once at Lost Pond, once at Brittany(R.U.with 38 dog field so he 10 place cover dog of Mi. so far) once at Highland. But he will NEVER go there again. He has run in both the Grand and the Amt. Grand, twice in the Mi.WC ch. twice LakeStates Ch., and in alot of the eastern Cu. He was also run 3 times Armstrong-Umbel Endurance Classic. It's a two hour stake on wild birds. He finished once as a derby once as adult and was lost 3/4 throw when he decided to chase a deer! Now just randum pictures. 







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## kek25

Good stuff Terry. Thanks for bringing us back to reality. By the looks of the first photo, he got broke off deer. Good luck in the future with him.


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## Worm Dunker

More Setters








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## Worm Dunker

More setters2







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## Worm Dunker

setters 2







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## Jay Johnson

Let's not forget the real purpose of field bred setters:


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## Bobby

Mac
This is also the definition of HOT!




Steelheadfred said:


> Real Boobs


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## dash102576

h]


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## dash102576




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## Jay Johnson

Here are two of the three birds I killed this season using my field bred setter.


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## Scott Berg

kek25 said:


> I fear thiat I'm going going to be embarassed by my brother and sister setter owners, as the only comments so far are from a guy that runs labs in the uplands and a guy that runs German dogs in the uplands.
> 
> Have to admit, though, that orange and white setter of Kelly's is a nice strong looking boy! I'm partial to the big dogs, as long as they demonstrate stamina and heat tolerance.
> 
> I've been out of touch lately. Who are the current go-to studs in the setter world? Anyone working offspring of these studs and care to comment on what they're seeing so far?


Keith,

I did not see this thread for the 1st couple of days. The top studs got passed over. I guess thats all a matter of opinion but I will give you some input on the ones we have bred to or bought pups out of. We have always had 3-4 of our own dogs to use but we have also gone outside frequently. Here is a list from the past 6-8 years. Some of these dogs were great producers. Some we good but inconsistent and a couple were not so good, at least not for what we were looking to produce. 

CH Berg Brothers Jack
CH Ridge Creek Cody  Just bred another female to him
CH Houstons Blackjack  He has an outstanding son we are using twice this spring.
CH Hytest Skyhawk 
CH Tekao Mountain Patriot 
CH Tekoa Mountain Jettsun  Younger brother to Kelly's dog. We still have 3 straws.
CH Jetsetter
CH Skydancer Dancing Bull
CH Private Ryan  Made some tremendous bird dogs but there is no more semen.
CH Terhaars Rockko  Rockko was an absolute pleasure to hunt over.
CH Thunderbird Punch Buggy
CH Pennstar
CH Hamiltons Blue Diamond
CH Stone Tavern Matrix
CH Mignottas Pinot
CH Barbaro
CH Brannigan  via FS
CH Gridiron
Ch George Jones
CH Moss Meadow Traveler 
CH Tommy B
CH A Tarheel Sunrise
Outcast Houstons Vision  Younger brother to CH Houstons Belle. Just repeated a litter w/him.
Tom Jones  Not sure if he has a CH or not but he has a bunch of wins in the woods.
Silverado  Brother to Skyhawk
Timely Tales  Out of Patriot  Produced some dogs that stuck in out program.
Blue Chief
Northwoods Lager 

This is CH Tekoa Mountain Jettsun.









CH Ridge Creek Cody









Ch Houston's Blackjack










CH Skydancer Dancing Bull


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## Worm Dunker

For some reason I'm loosing my pictures and my patience!







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This is Hunters mother. This is Rich Holester boy and Ken DeLong carring on a famly tardision.







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This is one of Rich's daughter. "ll post the other girls pic later. So I hope some of you will remember field setter are for more than just putting meat on the table. You can due that with any dog even those rare pink pointing Laberdotle! . And with out us trialers making the breed better!


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## Jay Johnson

Worm Dunker said:


> For some reason I'm loosing my pictures and my patience!
> 
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> This is Hunters mother. This is Rich Holester boy and Ken DeLong carring on a famly tardision.
> 
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> [/IMG]
> This is one of Rich's daughter. "ll post the other girls pic later. So I hope some of you will remember field setter are for more than just putting meat on the table. You can due that with any dog even those rare pink pointing Laberdotle! . And with out us trialers making the breed better!


I can appreciate the contribution of field trialers but the main reason I use a field bred setter is to help me be a succesful grouse hunter. Plus, I think they are pretty.


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## Bobby

Mac
A few more examples.......................


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## 2ESRGR8

Cowgirl up!


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## Lucky Dog

Giddyup!


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## midwestfisherman

Bobby said:


> That's him and some days he is still the Spawn of Satan.


I can relate!


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## Mike McDonald

My hats off to those of to you that can look at a picture and tell real from fake. I guess I'm showing my age, I've got to figure it out the old fashioned way. I give them the motor boat with enough practice it's obvious. 
BTW, Bobby I always thought you might have a chap fetish. mac


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## FieldWalker

Bobby said:


> Mac


Agreed!


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## Bobby

Mike McDonald said:


> ...BTW, Bobby I always thought you might have a chap fetish, but here iare a pair of chaps that I really like :evil:....mac


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## Worm Dunker

Scott that's quite a list. One of those dogs on the list got breed a lot here in Mi. A lot of those dogs have heat issues. They won a lot of spring trials but not any fall trials. It wasn't from your line.

Here is a tip on setters that has worked well for me. Go to Gladwin to a championship. After a day or two you will see some bond fires at night. Get yourself a case of beer not the cheep stuff like PBR . Introduce yourself set down and just listen. You'll know when it's time to ask a question. You might be surprised at the answers at least I was


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## k9wernet

Now it's gone too far... You setter boys have fun in your "room"


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## Merimac

kek25 said:


> Jumpin jehosaphat. Top that spaniel owners.
> 
> Enjoyed the crica 198_ photos, Ben. Didn't realize your history with setters went back to your parents.
> 
> Where's your setter photos Harris?


Keith,
The photo of my brother and sister is from 1971, The ones of my brother and I are from 1982 and 83 Those were the first 2 years of grouse hunting in the UP for me. I grew up with Lots of English setters. Most of them were from Elwin Smith. My dog Addie was the first english setter that my family had owned that was not some version of Smith Blood since the Wonsover dogs.

Anyhow I was born with english setters and I have never not had one. I currently have 3.

Ben


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## HarleyP

A thread worth commenting on Fake or not, does it REALLY matter? I sez nope. :lol:


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## kek25

Thanks, Scott. Every time I see Cody I think to my self "that's a great looking, well proportioned settter." I seem to really prefer the all white bodies. My Reroy dog and TMS bred dog are all white and very easy to see in the woods in the fall. My Grouse Ridge Spencer dog is heavily ticked black, white, and orange and a bugger to pick up out there in the fall. The opposite is true in the winter. 

Any comments on how Cody's offspring are doing out there? How's his heat tolerance?

Dancing Bull is a sharp looking dude too!!

Feel free to add some videos of your dogs working, Scott. I know you have a collection.



Scott Berg said:


> Keith,
> 
> I did not see this thread for the 1st couple of days. The &#8220;top studs&#8221; got passed over. I guess that&#8217;s all a matter of opinion but I will give you some input on the ones we have bred to or bought pups out of. We have always had 3-4 of our own dogs to use but we have also gone outside frequently. Here is a list from the past 6-8 years. Some of these dogs were great producers. Some we good but inconsistent and a couple were not so good, at least not for what we were looking to produce.
> 
> CH Berg Brothers Jack
> CH Ridge Creek Cody &#8211; Just bred another female to him
> CH Houston&#8217;s Blackjack &#8211; He has an outstanding son we are using twice this spring.
> CH Hytest Skyhawk
> CH Tekao Mountain Patriot
> CH Tekoa Mountain Jettsun &#8211; Younger brother to Kelly's dog. We still have 3 straws.
> CH Jetsetter
> CH Skydancer Dancing Bull
> CH Private Ryan &#8211; Made some tremendous bird dogs but there is no more semen.
> CH Terhaar&#8217;s Rockko &#8211; Rockko was an absolute pleasure to hunt over.
> CH Thunderbird Punch Buggy
> CH Pennstar
> CH Hamilton&#8217;s Blue Diamond
> CH Stone Tavern Matrix
> CH Mignotta&#8217;s Pinot
> CH Barbaro
> CH Brannigan &#8211; via FS
> CH Gridiron
> Ch George Jones
> CH Moss Meadow Traveler
> CH Tommy B
> CH A Tarheel Sunrise
> Outcast Houston&#8217;s Vision &#8211; Younger brother to CH Houston&#8217;s Belle. Just repeated a litter w/him.
> Tom Jones &#8211; Not sure if he has a CH or not but he has a bunch of wins in the woods.
> Silverado &#8211; Brother to Skyhawk
> Timely Tales &#8211; Out of Patriot &#8211; Produced some dogs that stuck in out program.
> Blue Chief
> Northwoods Lager
> 
> This is CH Tekoa Mountain Jettsun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CH Ridge Creek Cody
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Ch Houston's Blackjack
> 
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> CH Skydancer Dancing Bull


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## 2ESRGR8

HarleyP said:


> A thread worth commenting on Fake or not, does it REALLY matter? I sez nope. :lol:


Great post Dave.


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## Mike McDonald

Bobby said:


>


 
Does anyone else find it a little strange that Bobby has access to pictures like this?? mac


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## Scott Berg

kek25 said:


> Thanks, Scott. Every time I see Cody I think to my self "that's a great looking, well proportioned settter." I seem to really prefer the all white bodies. My Reroy dog and TMS bred dog are all white and very easy to see in the woods in the fall. My Grouse Ridge Spencer dog is heavily ticked black, white, and orange and a bugger to pick up out there in the fall. The opposite is true in the winter.
> 
> Any comments on how Cody's offspring are doing out there? How's his heat tolerance?
> 
> Dancing Bull is a sharp looking dude too!!
> 
> Feel free to add some videos of your dogs working, Scott. I know you have a collection.


Keith,

We have a female out of Dancing bull. Her first litter produced dogs you would really like. They are really natural and really honest around game.

Where Cody is concerned, We just attempted another frozen semen litter that did not take. Where tolerance is concerned, Cody is not just good, he is probably top 1-2%. We have a young male out of him (Brody) that we started and sold with stud rights. We like him a lot. Brody was a rock around game from the very start and has grown up to be just gorgeous on birds. He is also as smooth as they come on the ground and his pace is perfect. He runs with purpose and is extremely easy to handle. We will use him at stud at some point.

I don&#8217;t have any adult video of him but I have one at 5 ½ months old that I think put on this site back when he was a puppy. Here it is &#8230;

*Brody - *5 month old male by Ridge Creek Cody X Berg Brothers Front Page. We normally allow pups to chase while we introduce them to the gun. Brody was chasing hard so we had him start to drag a small diameter check cord that we make especially for pups. After a couple minor corrections he would just stand there broke after the flush so we decided should capture it on video because people might think we were crazy if we told them a 5 month old puppy was standing through the flush until released.


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## Scott Berg

Worm Dunker said:


> Scott that's quite a list. One of those dogs on the list got breed a lot here in Mi. A lot of those dogs have heat issues. They won a lot of spring trials but not any fall trials. It wasn't from your line.
> 
> Here is a tip on setters that has worked well for me. Go to Gladwin to a championship. After a day or two you will see some bond fires at night. Get yourself a case of beer not the cheep stuff like PBR . Introduce yourself set down and just listen. You'll know when it's time to ask a question. You might be surprised at the answers at least I was


I am pretty sure I know which dog you mean. I did not breed to him but I bought two pups out of him. One was OK. The other was probably the worst dog I have ever owned and I gave it away as a pet. I also saw alot of offspring out of that dog that I did not care for but obviously plenty of others bred to him often.

SRB


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## Bobby

Mike McDonald said:


> Does anyone else find it a little strange that Bobby has access to pictures like this?? mac


Mac, I have it on good authority that you made the photo your screen saver.


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## k9wernet

HarleyP said:


> A thread worth commenting on Fake or not, does it REALLY matter? I sez nope. :lol:


I disagree. I was talking about this thread with my wife last night and she made a good point:

Take a pug-fugly woman, put a Heidi Klum rubber mask on her, and send her walking down the street. Do you think guys would turn and whistle, or post pictures of her in an internet forum talking about how hot she is?

Probably not...

But fill her chest with rubber and suddenly she's a drop-dead hottie? I don't think so!

I personally think fake boobs are weird and gross...


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## Mike McDonald

Bobby said:


> Mac, I have it on good authority that you made the photo your screen saver.


Come on man. You posted it. None of us will respect you less if you're honest about your preferences. mac


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## k9wernet

Mike McDonald said:


> Come on man. You posted it. None of us will respect you less if you're honest about your preferences. mac


I've personally heard Bob sing the praises of setters and pointers... comments like that will get people thinking you go both ways!


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## Bobby

Mike McDonald said:


> Come on man. You posted it. None of us will respect you less if you're honest about your preferences. mac


You claimed I have a thing for chaps, so I posted a self portrait. WTH? And you made it your screen saver.


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## 2ESRGR8

k9wernet said:


> I personally think fake boobs are weird and gross...


Motor-boatin'!!!!!!

http://youtu.be/V0O0nzkESTI


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## kellyM87

Worm Dunker said:


> Here is a tip on setters that has worked well for me. Go to Gladwin to a championship. After a day or two you will see some bond fires at night. Get yourself a case of beer not the cheep stuff like PBR . Introduce yourself set down and just listen. You'll know when it's time to ask a question. You might be surprised at the answers at least I was


I went to my first big bon fire outside my normal group at the woodcock CH... I learned a lot... most not related to the dogs though :sad:


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## HarleyP

k9wernet said:


> I personally think fake boobs are weird and gross...


I personally think that having a "rational, reasoning" conversation about fake titties based on some posts on an internet thread about setters is hil-freakin-larious! :lol:


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## 2ESRGR8

Nice abs Bob.


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## N M Mechanical

HarleyP said:


> I personally think that having a "rational, reasoning" conversation about fake titties based on some posts on an internet thread about setters is hil-freakin-larious! :lol:


It makes perfect sence false pointing and fake boobs................




Sorry could not help it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## k9wernet

HarleyP said:


> I personally think that having a "rational, reasoning" conversation about fake titties based on some posts on an internet thread about setters is hil-freakin-larious! :lol:


At this stage in the game, you take what the wife gives and you play every angle.


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## Worm Dunker

I guy at my age couldn't score with any on them even in my dreams.

Back to this post don't forget another good thing about the Ryman setters after the hunt you can ride them back to the truck.

Kelly did you bring LaBatts to the fire pitt? You won't get anything with PBR. I forgot to tell you it work best if you drink one to their six!!!

Today I went through another 1000 picture. I will try post these in like dead birds, which is my least favorite. MS members setters, the different hunts and trials with setters, people with setters who you may heard the names but don't them. Finally the big dogs maybe people or dogs for some reason I can't open my Invatational and the Grand disks. I did the big show pictures for the Alia-bi Hall it has all names and dog names and braces. For all you pointer owners who are flowing this thread it was hard for me to find picture that didn't have those big running quail dogs in them!!


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## 2ESRGR8

FieldWalker said:


> Does anyone have an update on a trial taking place this year in Europe?


The Setter won.


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## Bobby

Worm Dunker said:


> I guy at my age couldn't score with any on them *even in my dreams*.
> 
> !!


Sure you could, in your dreams, a big "Frisco Freeze."


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## Back woods

CH. Fireside Drama Queen


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## Back woods

Fireside Fleetwood pointing a brood of grouse.


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## Jay Johnson

Yep...field bred english setters can point grouse.


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## TrekJeff

Our first day together was yesterday...Vet said she's one year old and there's some challenges, but we'll see how those go over time. As for the end of the day, she made herself at home Hopefully I can find someone in the Mount Pleasant/Remus area willing to work with her and I, or I can head up to see Chuck in Marion. She's got skills, but who knows.


----------



## Scott Berg

Back woods said:


> CH. Fireside Drama Queen
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV3e264bmN0


Great stuff Bruce. But hey ... Drama Queen is 100% horseback breeding. I guess nobody told her she is not a cover dog.  She has a lot of nerve winning all those grouse trials. Just ribbin ya, of course. I have alot of that same blood. Jack offerd me Spymaster when we are on the prairie working that litter their 1st year. Jack and I had discussed that litter for quite awhile and was supposed to take one home with me. I wanted Silverado. Jack was still undecided between Skip and Si so the plan was to wait until Jack figured out which one he wanted. I figured Jack would eventually pick Skip (Skyhawk) and he would send me Si but of course he decided to keep Si too. So, I ended up breeding to Si twice with great results.

I like the breeding on Fleetside too. I bred to his brother last year and have two litters on the way out of that same male.


----------



## kek25

Thanks for the videos Scott and Bruce. 

Show 'em if you got 'em.


----------



## kek25

She's a nice looking setter, Jeff. Good luck with her. I'm partial to the orange and white dogs.



TrekJeff said:


> Our first day together was yesterday...Vet said she's one year old and there's some challenges, but we'll see how those go over time. As for the end of the day, she made herself at home Hopefully I can find someone in the Mount Pleasant/Remus area willing to work with her and I, or I can head up to see Chuck in Marion. She's got skills, but who knows.


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Good luck Jeff nice looking pooch.


----------



## J-Lee

She is a beauty Jeff, best of luck with her. She looks like she has found her forever home, well done.


----------



## Brian121208

2ESRGR8 said:


> Good luck Jeff nice looking pooch.


X2. Great lookin dowg!


----------



## Worm Dunker

I went through more pictures and with all the nice woman pictures I won't call these meat shots. I'll call em dead birds shoys. Some are MS hunts at BearCreek some hunting pro's and the big dogs and some just me.








[/IMG]

This is a point, back, and this bird is dead








[/IMG]







[/IMG]







[/IMG]


----------



## Worm Dunker

More dead birds

All these birds were shot over trial winners 1 and 2X Ch. We went out to tune the dogs for the Mi WC. Ch. and yes they all were retrieved. They could have shot many more but between tuning and styling the dogs more flew off then got shot at.








[/IMG]







[/IMG]







[/IMG]







[/IMG]







[/IMG]


----------



## Worm Dunker

More dead birds
These first two pictures are made from dead bird parts. The woodcock tails I got from friends because I don't shot them. The grouse tails I shot. I used too make these to give at Mi. WC CH. the Lakes Stake Grouse Ch. and the Fruchey.







[/IMG]









Jakes first bird







[/IMG]

And last a real money shot. It was from the first MS grouse camp. I don't remember who shot them but was a MS member








[/IMG]


----------



## FindTheBird

Terry, as you know, I only run that lowly in-bred English Pointer breed, but it would have been fun to get Hunter and Lady on the ground today in the 58 degree weather! 
Let's get some paws on the ground on the next nice day.


----------



## Jay Johnson

I don't have many photo's from back in the day when I was hunting quite a bit but here are a few of birds bagged as the result of field bred setters.

Ten in 1-1/2 hours back in 2008.








Five killed over a youngsters points.








A limit killed over this dog when she was 13 years old.








Five killed over Meg's points in her Derby season.








Nice October colors.








Another five bird limit killed over Meg in her Derby year.








Last hunt of a great grouse dog. She died the next Spring at nearly 14 years.


----------



## Jay Johnson

Continued...
Rick created a vacancy at this drumming log.








I bought a new truck and the same day killed a limit of birds.








Rick, and Jenny as a 6-month old pup.








Ten killed the day before deer season.








Nine killed by the time we took a late morning break.








Three taken on a morning walk in Douglas County, WI.








Start them young!


----------



## Jay Johnson

Continued II...

Great gun and grand birds.








Fruits of Gordy Gullions work.
















Nice afternoon hunt with two buddies from PA.








Here I am with four.








And my hunting partner with five.








Five from this past November.








The last three birds of the 2012 season.


----------



## Jim58

That's a fine résumé Mr. Johnson.
Thanks for sharing.

Jim


----------



## hehibrits

This is turning into the tailgate corner...setters rock!!!


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## oilcan

Jim58 said:


> That's a fine résumé Mr. Johnson.
> Thanks for sharing.
> 
> Jim


 Yes nice collection, you are the Grouse commander.


----------



## kek25

The DOORS concert is playing on Public TV right now. WOOOOO HOOOOOOOO!


----------



## Jay Johnson

oilcan said:


> Yes nice collection, you are the Grouse commander.


No you are thinking of a guy that frequents the Spaniel and Retrieve threads. 

I'm more like the blind hog that finds the acorn every now and again in spite of having relatively nondescript dogs and not much of a plan.


----------



## milmo1

kek25 said:


> The DOORS concert is playing on Public TV right now. WOOOOO HOOOOOOOO!


A television link...
I really hate quarterbacks that run for more yards than the average running back (Kaepernick).
Aaron Rogers is said to be a grouse hunter...being a talented, intelligent guy, I'd imagine he would be a setter type guy.


----------



## Bobby

Jim58 said:


> That's a fine résumé Mr. Johnson.
> Thanks for sharing.
> 
> Jim


It's nice to see tailgate photos that DON"T include the Heller Bros.


----------



## oilcan

Jay Johnson said:


> No you are thinking of a guy that frequents the Spaniel and Retrieve threads.
> 
> I'm more like the blind hog that finds the acorn every now and again in spite of having relatively nondescript dogs and not much of a plan.


 Nah, You are dah Man with the Plan.


----------



## Jim58

Bobby said:


> It's nice to see tailgate photos that DON"T include the Heller Bros.


The Hellers are very efficient grouse killers.

Mr. Johnson appears to be a very efficient grouse hunter.

Both are different both are impressive.

IMHO.
Jim


----------



## Dave Medema

Oh, Oh, Oh. Can I play too? I'm off to church but will find some pics and stories later.


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Dave Medema said:


> Oh, Oh, Oh. Can I play too? I'm off to church but will find some pics and stories later.


Can never get enuf of the Afghan David hurry on with it.
How about some of those Kentucky Llewellins while you're at it too.


----------



## Mike McDonald

Jay Johnson said:


> Continued...
> Rick created a vacancy at this drumming log.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought a new truck and the same day killed a limit of birds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rick, and Jenny as a 6-month old pup.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ten killed the day before deer season.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nine killed by the time we took a late morning break.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Three taken on a morning walk in Douglas County, WI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Start them young!


Great pics killa.. BTW a great way to add length to a thread is to copy someone's post then add your comment. Guess where I learned that? mac


----------



## miturkey

We just got our first english setter pup. And he already enjoys the woods.


----------



## kek25

Welcome to the best Setter room on the web.

We need photos of the pup.


----------



## Worm Dunker

After looking through cd again all day yesterday I'm going to post MS members setters. I'll apogize now for the names! 

In the middle Bobby








[/IMG]

Bobby on left MidwesternFisherman on right(he will be just Jim in others








[/IMG]

Jim 








[/IMG]

Mil-Run








[/IMG]


----------



## Steelheadfred

Wooooohoooooo Keep it flowing Terry.


----------



## Worm Dunker

This is driving me crazy. And it' a short drive. I have to pull the pictures from 33 pages of pictures on hunt 101. Now I'm 0n page 23 and when a hit the back page that many times I end up losing both picture and post.


Again with the name all I remember is Charlie Cheeseburger. His dog on left after he stole Hunters point.








[/IMG]

Bear Creek before he bough a DUCK DOG!!!








[/IMG]


----------



## midwestfisherman

This thread has gone from a good idea, to funny, surprising, strange, and just weird (Bobby), Keep it going guys! Best thread in a while!


----------



## Worm Dunker

Thers are all setter pics

It's just hard for me to group picture. So this group will be from my quest for a champion setter and the people who have helped me along the way.








[/IMG]

This fine southern gentleman trained and force broke my first two setter. Just trained Jake I couldn't stand to watch that anymore. After his death my best hope started with Rich Hollester. I was crying in my bottles of fine dinner whine Boones Farm at the Int. We reached a deal I was off to the pawn shop and came back with Hunter.








[/IMG]

These are the people that helped me along the wayagain.Starting Rich ands his posse








[/IMG]








[/IMG]








[/IMG] 

And at last these two!!








[/IMG]


----------



## Worm Dunker

Even more picture in no order








[/IMG] MS member








[/IMG] MS members








[/IMG] 

Maggie my best setter her last point she died 10 days later







[/IMG]







[/IMG]







[/IMG]







[/IMG]MS member


----------



## woodcockridgekennels

In my opinion English Setters are the best looking dog in the woods. fun to watch work and beautiful on point. All I have ever had and all I will have...


----------



## Scott Berg

These are photos of 4-10 month old pups we evaluated this year but did not keep. The ones that don't make the team are an equal measure for us of how we are doing. This might seem odd on the surface but it is a great measure of consistenty or average quality. The site only allows 10 photos so I will have to make a couple posts.

Dixie - Kassie Cothran (OK)









Dot  Reed Thacker (IL)








Grace (backing)  Rocko Petrocco (AZ)








Gypsy @ 8 months  Mike Pluris (IN)








Hercules  Jeff Brown (MN)
We kept stud rights to Herc so he might participate in our program in the future.








Jett  Perry Rogers (AL)








Lilly - Joe Lazzara (IL)








Lucky  Kevin Hampleman (WY)








Memphis  Larry Katz (FL)








Maybellene  Bob Leet (MI)


----------



## Scott Berg

Part II

Max  Mike Fuller (AL)








Rocky  Bob Leet (MI)








Sally @ 6 months 








Sally  Bob King (NV)








Sam @ 9 months  Ben Tucker (OH)








Sue








Suzy Steve Cassellius (WI)








Trixy  Steve Skipworth (OR)








Zimmy  Jeff Brick (MN)


----------



## [email protected]

Nice Scott, that Trixy dog looks put together nice


----------



## Worm Dunker

Scott your breeding a nice looking setter. I really like the masks on the tri- colors. No signs of tail issues. But what I see in your setters I like best they all seam to keep all four feet on the ground on point. They seem to all keep a level body with both high head and tail.


----------



## Bobby

kek25 said:


> How many times has that old Gordon of Bobby's been in the placements for that stakes? He must be one heckuva hunter.


Maybe 7 times, something like that. That photo with Mike Pacitta's shorthair was 2005 (I think,) he would have been 7 then. That's the same weekend we had that long talk with Harold Haines, Wormdunkers Trainer and friend.



Steelheadfred said:


> I saw him go at 11 years old or more, he had a grouse and a woodcock that day, ran like the wind.


Placed 2nd at 11, 1st at 12, last Sunday at Highland he stuck a quail real nice, he is now 14.5. It wasn't a bird I planted, it was just hanging out ....................I'm not telling where.


----------



## kek25

[email protected] said:


> Nice Scott, that Trixy dog looks put together nice


Agreed, Johnathon. I've seen her photo before, and she really caught my eye -- long legs, long neck, nice blocky head for a female, deep chest, nice tailset and tail size in relation to her body, high head. 

What's her breeding, Scott?


----------



## Scott Berg

kek25 said:


> Agreed, Johnathon. I've seen her photo before, and she really caught my eye -- long legs, long neck, nice blocky head for a female, deep chest, nice tailset and tail size in relation to her body, high head.
> 
> What's her breeding, Scott?


To be honest, part of what you see in Trixy is that she is a little older than the others. Several of these photos were taken at 4-5 months of age. Her mother Berg Brothers Hyklass (below) is built really nice and Trixy is a gorgeous on the ground. She is a Sunrise/First Rate cross. We also got Berg Brothers High Roller "Pete" out of Classy when we bred her to our Jack dog.

Trixy&#8217;s sire is a younger brother to CH Houston&#8217;s Belle (Outcast Houston&#8217;s Vision) who is a linebred Sunrise female bred to a line bred Houston male. Of course, Belle produced CH Houston&#8217;s Black jack and CH Houston&#8217;s Belle out of the same litter. Same male produced our &#8220;Butch&#8221; and I have put his photo up here previously. We like what he produces and have two more litters on the way out of him. One of them being a repeat of the litter that produced Butch.


----------



## 2ESRGR8

I still love the looks of those red dogs.
I might have to take one of those for spin one of these days before my ride on this side of the dirt is over.


----------



## [email protected]

This is from about 4.5 years ago, this is my wife and Coco as a baby. Fast forward to 2013 and Coco has been one of the best dogs I could ever ask for. She has been a great grouse dog, gave me a couple of nice litters bred to some nice males, won a Runner Up Championship, plenty of other wins along the way, and came closer to some other big ones more than I care to think about. As for Erin, since this pic she is now nearing the End of a 4 year Ob/Gyn residency, had Luke or 2.5 year old boy, and is now due with twins at the end of April, so some of these pics may have been the glory days for now with dogs as your time surely does shift for a little while, but have a passion for both and the kids will surely always have a "field bred setter" around to play with. 



















Loving birds from the get go, 










Hardcore


















I believe this may have been back to North Dakota as a 1.5 old dog, some of it starts to blur together



















This was as a fall puppy in North Dakota, a camp we shared with Mr. Berg, great times and no better place to let a pup learn and up my shooting percentage!


----------



## [email protected]

These two pics are from last year, above is my lil buddy Luke with Banjo from a litter we had, he's a nice stout 55lb male, and below is Roxie, a littermate. I had her up until about 7 months old and one of my friends had a dog pass and I let him have her. She is a heck of a lil bird dog, and has a couple of nice placements last fall as a derby.


----------



## [email protected]

These are the field trial dogs that don't get hunted or have any birds shot for them, and most likely held them back as performers :evil:

Coco and I with Dave and Terhaar's Elvis, Champion of the Grand and Invitational along with 3 runner up Championships. This was at grouse camp 2 years ago, we had a couple other friends along, wore orange while hunting, had our licenses, and followed Michigan Bag Limit Guidelines, there is my disclaimer.










Left to rite at grouse camp is Coco, daughter of Scott's dog Kera (bred to Berg Brothers Jack to get my dog), who is daughter of Dave's dog Rocko. Fun day of hunting with siblings. 










Funny to look at the puppy pics from a fall hunting season and now look back later. The tri color dog with Dave is 2xCh/ru ch Terhaar's Rogue as a fall puppy, funny to watch them at 7 months old and get an idea of what they might do in a couple years. Exactly one year later she won the Wisconsin Cover dog Championship as a 1.5 old in a field of about 55 dogs. The pup I had in this pic was a nice dog, a little smaller than I wanted for a male, was all white, and only dropped one nut so I ended up selling him to a hunter.










Funny to watch this old boy boy get run in the woods almost year round then watch him get cut loose on the prairie on our first shift there and have about 10 sharptail finds in an hour. Funny how some memories just stick in your head. Scott Dave and I with Elvis after a memorable day, photo probably courtesy of Mr. Berg.


----------



## [email protected]

Freddy










Woody - both a couple males I have had over the years










Rogue - These three are Dave's, I enjoy carrying camera along so not my dogs, just enjoy taking pics









Elvis training at Allegan










I know this one has been posted, still a cool pic, Rocko in North Dakota


----------



## [email protected]

Above Ottimer guarding my beer on the canoe trip up in Bruce's neck of the woods, below lil buddy with the pups.










There now I went all Wormdunker on posting pictures, have a great day :lol:


----------



## Dave Medema

Current dog Kona in the back yard. 










An afternoons results with Kona. He can get it done. 








He's kind of pretty for an afghan.









puppy work.









Pup liked birds from the getgo


----------



## Dave Medema

Pat - he was a 1/2 Llew 1/2 FT dog out of KY. He was a grouse machine. He just found them when none were around. 

Pat and Kona keeping an eye on the squirrels. 








Out in S. Dakota with the last bird on the last day shot my my 12 yo.









Pat and Rex are in the truck. The rest of the dogs are all FT runoffs too. This was a fun couple of hours.









Training Pat as a pup with young helpers.


----------



## Dave Medema

Rex. Michigan FT mutt. 

Squirrel









Fishing buddy









Babysitter









Professional grouse dog with Pat as a youngster. 









Rex was the easiest dog I've owned. He was also the easiest grouse dog to hunt. He ran big, fast, and somehow just had the birds figured out. In terms of guiding, he was a dream.

Like others, I rarely take a camera with me and when I do, usually forget to take pics. But, Rex gave me so many memories they are forever burned into memory. 

Just a few highlights with some large numbers just to illustrate what he did provide in terms of finding shootable birds. Most of these days involved other dogs too...all of which were FT bred grouse dogs. They lived for the woods.

With 4 hunters, shooting 17 grouse before 10am.

With 8 hunters, shooting 60+ grouse in a weekend.

With 4 hunters, shooting grouse and WC limits 2 days in a row.

I've shot 5 bird limits with him in less than an hour. 

We shot 7 grouse on 7 points with 7 shells a couple of times. We quit after those hunts. 

I kept track of his points for one season, it was 1998 or 99 at the top of the cycle. He was unbelievable.


----------



## Steelheadfred

Thanks for sharing Dave, lots of fun to read, and aspire too.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Bobby

[email protected] said:


> ............*I went all Wormdunker *......................on posting pictures, have a great day :lol:


Thanks Jonathon.
We now have a new saying here on the M-S Upland Forum.

A lot of nice picks, I especially like the one after Cocoa ate the jelly doughnut.

WWWDD


----------



## 2ESRGR8

That Pat sure was a looker. How much did he weigh Dave?


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Worm Dunker said:


> I've always said I have setters because I have house dogs. While in Ky these were the Formans house dogs. The setter is ShaddyHill Bean a multi Ch. I slept with the pointer (heater is next to my bed) who is also a multi CH. I don't remember her name but she is a HiveFive dog. Best house dog short of mine I been around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]


I think that Pointer is Hifive's Desert Dream aka Jade.
She's a littermate sister to my Kater.


----------



## Steelheadfred

Bobby said:


> 17.4% of the spaniel posts and closing in...........................slowly


Right on.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Worm Dunker

I have enjoyed this post. But the picture posting is getter harder and harder to due. All the trial picture hard to find find one with out those big running quail dogs.Plus my spell checker just waves a yellow flag now.

As more and more picture are being posted I see more where I don't feet in here. For years a deluxe hunt was a truck with power windows and a case of beer in the back. After meeting Harold things started to change. When uncle Den started hunting behind my setter. I'd here a shot. I'd yell did Sam point it. No it was running on the ground. Harold got Sam steady again. We took Den on one of the trade trips to western Iowa. All the way there we kept on him. No shots unless Sam point. No bumped birds or wild flush. He had a fit we would stop for ditch birds. After the first day he couldn't stand it he had a heart attack. 

Bobby should I post a picture on the spaniel posts of Wanbli? He won what the woodcock Ch. or I could show a picture of a lab breeding a pitt bull to see if couls be a cover dog retrieve? But not what to call it Lababull or a Pittador.


----------



## Worm Dunker

2ESRGR8 yes her name was Jada. I though the Desert dogs are owened by Desert Dick he is from Az. Jada owner lives in NY.


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Worm Dunker said:


> 2ESRGR8 yes her name was Jada. I though the Desert dogs are owened by Desert Dick he is from Az. Jada owner lives in NY.


Gus Piperis is her owner and yes he does hail from New York state.
I believe he has a passion for chukar hunting so he named her High Desert Dream. She's out of CH Sugarknoll Buckshot x Hifive's Jasmine.


----------



## Dave Medema

Worm Dunker said:


> As more and more picture are being posted I see more where I don't feet in here.


Why?

Are you thinking that some of us with lots of birds shot everything in trees, stumps, and gravel?


----------



## Duece22

Dave Medema said:


> Why?
> 
> Are you thinking that some of us with lots of birds shot everything in trees, stumps, and gravel?


You didn't? 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Steelheadfred

Worm Dunker said:


> I have enjoyed this post. But the picture posting is getter harder and harder to due. All the trial picture hard to find find one with out those big running quail dogs.Plus my spell checker just waves a yellow flag now.
> 
> As more and more picture are being posted I see more where I don't feet in here. For years a deluxe hunt was a truck with power windows and a case of beer in the back. After meeting Harold things started to change. When uncle Den started hunting behind my setter. I'd here a shot. I'd yell did Sam point it. No it was running on the ground. Harold got Sam steady again. We took Den on one of the trade trips to western Iowa. All the way there we kept on him. No shots unless Sam point. No bumped birds or wild flush. He had a fit we would stop for ditch birds. After the first day he couldn't stand it he had a heart attack.
> 
> Bobby should I post a picture on the spaniel posts of Wanbli? He won what the woodcock Ch. or I could show a picture of a lab breeding a pitt bull to see if couls be a cover dog retrieve? But not what to call it Lababull or a Pittador.




Terry,

I'm thrilled this post as you brought you back! Stay after, I'm enjoying all the photos. You fit in just fine.


----------



## kek25

Keep it going, Terry. You're one of the driving forces behind keeping this thread strong. It is great to see all of those setters you've captured on film and digital over the years.

By the way, although this is off topic but since so many people have checked out this thread (8,631 in 8 days), I'll throw out this shameless solicitation that I'm looking for a well maintained 20-21 foot Ranger Reata boat in the $16,000-$19,000 price range if anyone has one for sale or knows of someone who does. Can email me at [email protected] or pm through this site.


----------



## Dave Medema

BTW Terry, Woo Hoo to the pup pics. I enjoy them.


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Agreed.


----------



## kek25

Dave Medema said:


> BTW Terry, Woo Hoo to the pup pics. I enjoy them.


Your contributions are appreciated too Dave. The successful hunting perspectives and photos using field trial bred dogs provides first-hand insight for those new to the sport who may question whether those types of dogs can get it done as meat dogs.


----------



## Steelheadfred

kek25 said:


> your contributions are appreciated too dave. The successful hunting perspectives and photos using field trial bred dogs provides first-hand insight for those new to the sport who may question whether those types of dogs can get it done as meat dogs.


x2 boom


----------



## Jay Johnson

A big dog grouse hunter moving in on his little dogs point:








Hard core grouse dogs:








Point!:


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Steelheadfred said:


> x2 boom


x3.


----------



## Worm Dunker

I've knocked heads on here with guys for years. Especially the short hairs guys. But I finnaly get it. Everybody on here owns the best dog. Or they wouldn't be feeding it. With each dog you get both of you get better because you have learned more. If your dogs aren't better get rid of them and take golf.


----------



## Bobby

Worm Dunker said:


> . If your dogs aren't better get rid of them and take golf.


Golf might be more expensive and my worst dog is better than I am at golf and I'm not too bad at golf. I don't think I could beat Fritz.


----------



## kek25

Bobby said:


> Gold might be more expensive and my worst dog is better than I am at golf and I'm not too bad at golf. I don't think I could beat Fritz.


I couldn't have said it any better, nor any clearer (well probably a little clearer, as I'm not sure how the gold fits in). :lol:


----------



## Steelheadfred

kek25 said:


> I couldn't have said it any better, nor any clearer (well probably a little clearer, as I'm not sure how the gold fits in). :lol:



I can't beat Ric, well I beat him once last year, but every dog has its day I think right, or not?


----------



## k9wernet

Steelheadfred said:


> I can't beat Ric, well I beat him once last year, but every dog has its day I think right, or not?


Depends on cover, conditions, and the guy driving the golf cart.


----------



## Duece22

k9wernet said:


> Depends on cover, conditions, and the guy driving the golf cart.


Mostly the guy swinging the club though. 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Bobby

k9wernet said:


> Depends on cover, conditions, and the guy driving the golf cart.


Golf is designed to walk. I dislike driving a cart. You usually have to share a cart and I don't like people.........as much as my dogs. I play better when I walk, much better.


----------



## Bobby

19%


----------



## Bobby

Wow
I just looked, I joined this site 12-21-2002, 10 years plus. We certainly get a rolling change on active posters. Only a few have been around as regulars since I joined. It doesn't seem that long.


----------



## Steelheadfred

Bobby said:


> Golf is designed to walk. I dislike driving a cart. You usually have to share a cart and I don't like people.........as much as my dogs. I play better when I walk, much better.


X2, what speed do you walk at?

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Bobby

Steelheadfred said:


> X2, what speed do you walk at?
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


I've never measured speed during golf. But I'm not slow. There is no question in my mind that average golfers, 2 to a cart, are slower than ****. They don't pay enough attention where the ball went and they only have the ability, because they are paired, to drive straight to one of the 2 balls. They then loose the angle or position of the other. If there are 90 degree rules in effect they usually can't drive straight to either ball and then they drive in circles. 

If you have 2 single HC golfers in the same cart and free space out front there is no way a walker could keep up. They hit it straighter and they know what they're doing. This is the exception.


----------



## Duece22

Bobby said:


> I've never measured speed during golf. But I'm not slow. There is no question in my mind that average golfers, 2 to a cart, are slower than ****. They don't pay enough attention where the ball went and they only have the ability, because they are paired, to drive straight to one of the 2 balls. They then loose the angle or position of the other. If there are 90 degree rules in effect they usually can't drive straight to either ball and then they drive in circles.
> 
> If you have 2 single HC golfers in the same cart and free space out front there is no way a walker could keep up. They hit it straighter and they know what they're doing. This is the exception.


Well said. I prefer to walk and play better walking as well. When I do have to take a cart I still walk a lot. Going to my ball well my partner plays or walking to the green after an approach to allow my partner to play his shots. It helps my game and the pace of play. 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## kellyM87

I tried golf a few times. I wore bright orange so people knew to watch out for me.


----------



## kek25

Golf attire for the discriminating setter owner.











Find it here:

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/English-Setter-Golf-Shirt-CafePress/dp/B00AEPETNK"]Amazon.com: English Setter Golf Shirt by CafePress: [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@419mRfWXaDL[/ame]


----------



## kellyM87

kek25 said:


> Golf attire for the discriminating setter owner.


Does it come in "Watch the hell out" Orange?


----------



## kek25

kellyM87 said:


> Does it come in "Watch the hell out" Orange?


Special order only. Orange Sharpie would work too.


----------



## Steelheadfred

Hey we could use some help over on the cdr brag thread

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## kellyM87

So what do u think the biggest differences are in gun dog setters and dot setters?


----------



## Jay Johnson

kellyM87 said:


> So what do u think the biggest differences are in gun dog setters and dot setters?


What is a dot setter?


----------



## kellyM87

Oops texting and driving.... Dot=FT


----------



## 2ESRGR8

kellyM87 said:


> So what do u think the biggest differences are in gun dog setters and FT setters?


Entry fees.


----------



## kellyM87

2ESRGR8 said:


> Entry fees.


Touché, lol


----------



## Dave Medema

2ESRGR8 said:


> Entry fees.


+1. Mine are FT bred dogs that don't FT. I don't have the time or interest. I do appreciate and benefit from all the efforts of the FT crowd.


----------



## mudbat2128

Dave Medema said:


> +1. Mine are FT bred dogs that don't FT. I don't have the time or interest. I do appreciate and benefit from all the efforts of the FT crowd.


+2.


----------



## Scott Berg

kellyM87 said:


> So what do u think the biggest differences are in gun dog setters and dot setters?


This is debatable but one way to look at it could be that the difference is a product of how many generations removed from FT lines. At least this is true of the most common breeds. If you examine the top hunting dog kennels, their dogs tend to be out of trial dogs or only a generation or two removed. In some ways it as simple as Trials provide a selection process across a large number of dogs being evaluated. The further removed you get the less selective the breeding becomes and the gene pool regresses. In other words, the dogs closest to trial dogs benefit from a higher degree of selectivity which is the point Dave made earlier.

SRB


----------



## Dave Medema

Found some more pics while looking for a business card. I had to scan and upload as this was prior to digital.

Pat going for a jetski ride.









Training Pat as a pup. 









A better pic of my dogs from the Yoop day posted earlier. Sorry about the missing head.


----------



## [email protected]

2ESRGR8 said:


> Let's get this back on track...............
> Where does Kate Upton fall on the Kelly M. lesbian crush scale?


So Grush are you dating? I mean if Mante can claim a girlfriend surely you should be able to do it! You can probably come up with a better story, like how she found your most coveted grouse spots, and trains your dogs while you are at work, and bought you that fancy Subaru to cruise around in on two tracks in the northwoods?


----------



## Mike McDonald

[email protected] said:


> So Grush are you dating? I mean if Mante can claim a girlfriend surely you should be able to do it! You can probably come up with a better story, like how she found your most coveted grouse spots, and trains your dogs while you are at work, and bought you that fancy Subaru to cruise around in on two tracks in the northwoods?


whoa!! The tall red headed one puts one across the bow. mac


----------



## Bobby

It's been a slow day in the setter forum. But it's good see Kate Upton returned. 

Kelly never answered Grushy's question on the Kate U lesbian crush.


----------



## kellyM87

Bobby said:


> It's been a slow day in the setter forum. But it's good see Kate Upton returned.
> 
> Kelly never answered Grushy's question on the Kate U lesbian crush.


I didn't see it? But no she doesn't do it for me.


----------



## 2ESRGR8

If I can find one that wants to buy me a new fancy Subaru I will start dating again whether it pisses my wife off or not. :lol:

I'll take one of these..............


----------



## Dave Medema

2ESRGR8 said:


> If I can find one that wants to buy me a new fancy Subaru I will start dating again whether it pisses my wife off or not. :lol:
> 
> I'll take one of these..............



Grush, I took my oldest car shopping last week and we drove the cross trek, forester, and the outback. While cool looking, the crosstrek got last place as ranked by a college kid. It was a toad and really small on the inside. Last night I offered him the WRX but he wants a low end outback. It will haul all his outdoor gear (backpacks, fishing, and skiing) and a couple of friends where ever they need to be in Colorado.


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Boom! 
There ya go, good info from the Grouse Guru. I love my Outback and soon think we will be a 2 Outback home when my wife gets employed again.


----------



## k9wernet

I have a 2001 Forester for sale if your kid's interested. Heat and air work great, a couple small spots of body rust, mild-to-moderate dog chew damage throughout the interior, and the engine purrs like the day she was born -- pushing 300k.










Just kidding, she's not for sale.


----------



## Bobby

kellyM87 said:


> I didn't see it? But no she doesn't do it for me.


Let's circle back and focus on Kelly's lesbian crush.

From her responses she appears to favor brunettes with, what appears to be, smaller top side features. More photos would give us better data.

I don't think Kate Upton is truly blond, it appears she has brunette roots.
Kelly, if she was dark haired would that tip the scales?

The other lesbians on this thread should take their Suburu fantasies to another thread.




2ESRGR8 said:


> Let's get this back on track...............
> Where does Kate Upton fall on the Kelly M. lesbian crush scale?





kellyM87 said:


> I have a gay crush on these two


----------



## Jim58

Not only does the Setter Room seem to be a little more civil then some of the other threads it also has a certian je ne sais quoi that I can't quite put my finger on.....


----------



## k9wernet

Jim58 said:


> I can't quite put my finger on.....


If you could, you'd be the luckiest man in the room...


----------



## Jim58

k9wernet said:


> If you could, you'd be the luckiest man in the room...


Good point!


----------



## Bobby

Jim58 said:


> Not only does the Setter Room seem to be a little more civil then some of the other threads it also has a certian je ne sais quoi that I can't quite put my finger on.....


This is the first use of French that I can recall on this board.

I look up this phrase and I realize that you just repeat yourself:
*je ne sais quoi *something that cannot be adequately described or expressed 

Setter folks are a refined group, after all, setters are the refined and historical dog to use in the uplands. Do you ever see historical, farm land scenes of grouse or woodcock hunts with GSP's. No you don't.

Those stub tail guys start out mean and go on from there. Anyone that would chop the tail off a dog, sheeesh!


----------



## Jim58

Bobby said:


> This is the first use of French that I can recall on this board.
> 
> I look up this phrase and I realize that you just repeat yourself:
> *je ne sais quoi *something that cannot be adequately described or expressed
> 
> Setter folks are a refined group, after all, setters are the refined and historical dog to use in the uplands. Do you ever see historical, farm land scenes of grouse or woodcock hunts with GSP's. No you don't.
> 
> Those stub tail guys start out mean and go on from there. Anyone that would chop the tail off a dog, sheeesh!


You are correct, I used the tautology (kind of) to allow the meaning to come through in either language.

I totally agree about Setters. When I think of classic grouse hunting the first thing that comes to mind is a brace of Setters working an aspen stand at a gentlemanly pace with hunters bearing classic double guns in tow.

Jim

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## kellyM87

Nothing a about her does it for me.


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Bobby said:


> Let's circle back and focus on Kelly's lesbian crush.
> 
> From her responses she appears to favor brunettes with, what appears to be, smaller top side features. More photos would give us better data.


More photos.......purely in the name of science.

Mila Kunis


----------



## midwestfisherman

Jim58 said:


> je ne sais quoi


 always wondered how that word was spelled! ne_eye:


----------



## Steelheadfred

2ESRGR8 said:


> More photos.......purely in the name of science.
> 
> Mila Kunis


Back on topic Slappy's.

NOW that's awesome, a near perfect find, nothing to big or small on that woman!



> Setter folks are a refined group,


Yeah, I think of the word "refined" when I see this guy, perfect description.




















Setter owning refinement (did I spell this correct Bobby?)


----------



## Jim58

midwestfisherman said:


> always wondered how that word was spelled! ne_eye:


I always wondered how Mila Kunis was spelled!!


----------



## midwestfisherman

Jim58 said:


> I always wondered how Mila Kunis was spelled!!


:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Steelheadfred

Jim58 said:


> I always wondered how Mila Kunis was spelled!!


A W E S O M E


----------



## Jim58

I think I had better go take a nitro pill now.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Bobby

It appears Mila is wearing a set of bikini sized Depends




2ESRGR8 said:


> More photos.......purely in the name of science.
> 
> Mila Kunis


----------



## Bobby

It's clear from this shot why Kelly gets all hot over this girl. She would look quite nice on a horse and a trade in on those leather pants for a pair of chaps......I suppose chapless would be fine. But she would need a matching hat.










[/QUOTE]


----------



## miturkey

Here is our new Setter pup in the woods. Enjoying his run!!


----------



## Jim58

That is a very cool looking pup.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Steelheadfred said:


> Yeah, I think of the word "refined" when I see this guy, perfect description.


Hey this is the Setter thread, Ron Burgundy has a brittany.


----------



## 2ESRGR8

How does this piece of hotness rate on the Kelly M. scale? 
10 out of 10 I bet.


----------



## Steelheadfred

2ESRGR8 said:


> How does this piece of hotness rate on the Kelly M. scale?
> 10 out of 10 I bet.


X10

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## kellyM87

She's very beautiful that's for sure... How did end up with this judging though?


----------



## 2ESRGR8

kellyM87 said:


> I have a gay crush on these two


Page 6 post #82.


----------



## Jay Johnson

My hunting buddy with his field bred setter in front of the Gordon Gullion Kiosk with a fistful of partridge.









This little dog is 50% MI grouse gun dog:









She's my buddy and a sweet, calm dog:


----------



## Bobby

Only a single post today.


----------



## kellyM87

Mr. Wheelock, how's that Maddie pup doin? Haven't seen any recent photos


----------



## Bobby

kellyM87 said:


> Mr. Wheelock, how's that Maddie pup doin? Haven't seen any recent photos


I'm not the photo king some others are. She's doing well, she has a good long distance nose and loves birds and loves to run. Got her into a small covey of quail last weekend and she had a blast. She actually backed Ruby then went in and took the birds and chased. She came back, Tugger was stopped, she backed for a minute (probably more curious than actually backing) realized there might be more birds, there was, she took them for a ride too.


----------



## Worm Dunker

Bobby who are your two young dogs out of.


----------



## Worm Dunker

It's page 24 and I just realized it's field breed Setters. Did I miss something even the big AKC show ponies with the long side hair hunt. I run in to a couple at Grayling that their show hoarse had a grouse and a woodcock. I asked her about the hair she said she spray's it with Pam no problem. The area I always meet them I wouldn't hunt it. Who noes maybe the spray attracts birds what ever works


----------



## Bobby

Saddle up.

This will be one of our judges for the spring trial at Highland.


----------



## Bobby

Worm Dunker said:


> Bobby who are your three young dogs out of.


Tugger, Ruby's Shadow, Springfield's Orvis X Autumn Sophie

Mickey, Nobody's Shadow, Shadow Oak Bo X Quail Trap Sadie

Maddie, not yet registered, Nobody's Shadow X Ramblin' Ruby Lou (Ruby is Cracklin' Tail Speed X Pioneer Nina)

Maddie Mae, Mickey, Ruby Lou and Mr. Bugs, front to back


----------



## Steelheadfred

2ESRGR8 said:


> Is that a ten gauge?
> It might be that mythical cylinder choked 6lb. ten gauge that Mac has been searching for.


he'd give his left nut for either is my guess 

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Mike McDonald

Steelheadfred said:


> he'd give his left nut for either is my guess
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Yup


----------



## Worm Dunker

She's wearing a belt?


----------



## Duece22

Mike McDonald said:


> Yup


You have a left nut? 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Mike McDonald

Duece22 said:


> You have a left nut?
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


No but I have two rights. mac


----------



## TrekJeff

I was hoping to get my pup into some intro training to polish obedience and move into field training, but the Mt Pleasant KC doesn't have anything starting until April.

I'm in the lake isabella/beal city area and was hoping there was someone who would be willing to lend me a hand, or if there was anyone here who knew of someone.

Feelfree to PM

Thanks
Jeff


----------



## fishinlk

Work TOTALLY jacked my fall and we got ZERO trips north for grouse and had to put the breaks on steady to wing and shot training so trials are on hold too. Both my dog and I really missed it this year.... 

This was from one of our few trips out this fall. 












BTW I Like this thread!


----------



## kek25

Sorry to hear about your season. What's the breeding behind your female setter?


----------



## fishinlk

I got her from Nick Miller. She was in his first breeding of Milrun Salley x Second Chance Scooby.


----------



## kek25

There's a bunch of nonsense going on in another thread where setter haters are spreading their hate. As Bobby alluded to over there, it is only the owners of the English Setter who don't have to posit the question which breed is best. They already know.


----------



## Steelheadfred




----------



## Worm Dunker

I'm working on getting new setter picture. I took the first step and got a new camera today. It's just a point and shoot but I found with my bigger camera I just didn't carry it anymore. The first or second week of Feb I'm headed to hollers in Ky. There are a few wild quail, sometimes a woodcock or two but they due put out a bunch of liberated quail. There are a few different Johnny houses around on the property so the dogs get lots of bird work. I'm taking Hunter and he will stay with the Forman's till they come to Gladwin to run in the Grand National Grouse&Woodcock Invitational in April. If you could only see one trial this is the one to see. The 14 top cover dogs and handlers in the country will be there. They only run seven braces a day.The dogs that ran in the morning day 1 run in the after noon the second day. After day two the top 4 dogs can be up to 6 run the third day for the Championship.


----------



## TrekJeff

Steelheadfred said:


>


Oi, Oi, Oi


----------



## kek25

Looking forward to your new photos, Terry. Hve a great time.



Worm Dunker said:


> I'm working on getting new setter picture. I took the first step and got a new camera today. It's just a point and shoot but I found with my bigger camera I just didn't carry it anymore. The first or second week of Feb I'm headed to hollers in Ky. There are a few wild quail, sometimes a woodcock or two but they due put out a bunch of liberated quail. There are a few different Johnny houses around on the property so the dogs get lots of bird work. I'm taking Hunter and he will stay with the Forman's till they come to Gladwin to run in the Grand National Grouse&Woodcock Invitational in April. If you could only see one trial this is the one to see. The 14 top cover dogs and handlers in the country will be there. They only run seven braces a day.The dogs that ran in the morning day 1 run in the after noon the second day. After day two the top 4 dogs can be up to 6 run the third day for the Championship.


----------



## milmo1

Guess I know why we have had little female input on this thread...

And I have a nagging desire for a new ammo belt and O/U...


----------



## Bobby

Not hot, not at all.




Steelheadfred said:


>


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Steelheadfred said:


>


Is that a SKB?


----------



## Duece22

2ESRGR8 said:


> Is that a SKB?


Looks like an ASS to me. 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Duece22 said:


> Looks like an ASS to me.


 28 gauge.


----------



## milmo1

Bobby said:


> Not hot, not at all.


You Ok?

I think your opinion would be different if you were standing next to her shooting the bull.


----------



## kek25

milmo1 said:


> You Ok?
> 
> I think your opinion would be different if you were standing next to her shooting the bull.


That was the 400'th post to the "Room."

BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Awesome--errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.


----------



## Bobby

milmo1 said:


> You Ok?
> 
> I think your opinion would be different if you were standing next to her shooting the bull.


Physically, I don't think so and I feel fine. But attitude can be very sexy and you may be correct. She does have a big gun.



2ESRGR8 said:


> Awesome--errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.


errrrrrrrrr, yerself. Not; no lesbian crush, no hetro crush, sorry. We all have our criteria.


----------



## Bobby

2ESRGR8 said:


>


Smokin' hot 

The fire was put out a while back :fish2:


----------



## Dave Medema

2ESRGR8 said:


> 28 gauge.


so, just enough?


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Dave Medema said:


> so, just enough?


Boo yah Jack!


----------



## Scott Berg

The link below is a six month old male standing broke. We put no pressure on him to stand. He just did it on his own when we cautioned him verbally.

BTW ... You will see Ben styling up the pup in the video. There is no function in what he was doing. He was just trying to get an idea of what he will look like on point when he matures.

Jimmy http://youtu.be/mRcOX5FtkhQ


----------



## midwestfisherman




----------



## Steelheadfred

midwestfisherman said:


>


Tree sluicers?

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## k9wernet

The third photo wins both in terms of looks and gun safety. I sure hope the gun held by babe #1 isn't loaded.


----------



## Brian121208

Bump


----------



## midwestfisherman

Steelheadfred said:


> Tree sluicers?
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Or ground pounders!


----------



## Milo

The first picture is of my 10 week old pup the others are 4, 6, and 8 years old all hunted of grouse.


----------



## kellyM87

They'll do.


----------



## k9wernet

Kelly, this is supposed to be a family friendly website. 

Mods, can we get Kelly's offensive and frankly disgusting material removed from this thread???


----------



## Duece22

k9wernet said:


> Kelly, this is supposed to be a family friendly website.
> 
> Mods, can we get Kelly's offensive and frankly disgusting material removed from this thread???


X2 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Birdsonthebrain

k9wernet said:


> Kelly, this is supposed to be a family friendly website.
> 
> Mods, can we get Kelly's offensive and frankly disgusting material removed from this thread???


Good one Kevin


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Duece22 said:


> X2
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## milmo1

More dude pics... Time to check back out. This thread is now considered perverse (unless some more chic pics appear to offset).


----------



## GSP Gal

Yay Kelly!! 

Finally...:lol:


----------



## Bobby

kellyM87 said:


> What trial is March 16th???
> 
> 
> Diet coke.


Highland


----------



## Scott Berg

Finally got some decent weather for training this weekend. This is a brother to Greg Hilla's dog that was MI puppy of the year last year. They just turned two years old. The breeding is Berg Brothers Jack X Berg Brothers Patriot (out of Tekoa Mountain Patriot X Berg's Head Turner)


----------



## milmo1

88luneke said:


> that's is quite the shot. Stunning photo
> 
> 
> posted using outdoor hub campfire


x2

wow!


----------



## k9wernet

2ESRGR8 said:


> Agreed! x1000000!!!!!Boo -Yah!


All another chick with her finger on the trigger! Did the models and/or photographers fail gun safety... or is it innuendo?


----------



## k9wernet

You know, giving it a second look, maybe she's using the muzzle flash to dry her hair.


----------



## fishinlk

> You know, giving it a second look, maybe she's using the muzzle flash to dry her hair.


 lol:fish2:


----------



## midwestfisherman




----------



## Duece22

midwestfisherman said:


>


Country girls are ok by me. Chaps are a bonus. 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## kellyM87

Duece22 said:


> Country girls are ok by me. Chaps are a bonus.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Hate to burst your bubble..... "Normal" girls don't walk around dressed like that..... Get a fancy camera and some Benjamin's and you might be in business.....


----------



## babyelvis

I am one to two years away from getting a setter and would like to hear peoples opinion for a breeder. I have searched the archives and most of the thread regress into who has pups on the ground. Here is what I will be looking for in the dog. It will be a family pet, that lives in the house with two children 4, and 7. I will hunt with it 1-2 times a week. Most all of the hunting will be done in the EUP for Grouse and woodcock. I do not see me trialing the dog. So if you know of someone who if producing dogs that fit that type let me know. I figure it is never to early to get on a waitng list for the right dog. Thank you


----------



## 2ESRGR8

macvet aka Mike McDonald is your man.


----------



## Steelheadfred

babyelvis said:


> I am one to two years away from getting a setter and would like to hear peoples opinion for a breeder. I have searched the archives and most of the thread regress into who has pups on the ground. Here is what I will be looking for in the dog. It will be a family pet, that lives in the house with two children 4, and 7. I will hunt with it 1-2 times a week. Most all of the hunting will be done in the EUP for Grouse and woodcock. I do not see me trialing the dog. So if you know of someone who if producing dogs that fit that type let me know. I figure it is never to early to get on a waitng list for the right dog. Thank you


MacVet has nice dogs as you describe, but more info on desired range and characteristics would help.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Duece22

kellyM87 said:


> Hate to burst your bubble..... "Normal" girls don't walk around dressed like that..... Get a fancy camera and some Benjamin's and you might be in business.....


They don't? What the hell?  


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## N M Mechanical

Duece22 said:


> They don't? What the hell?
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Ric I am don't know what to say now I planned on getting some setthars if that is the view I would get to see 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bobby

midwestfisherman said:


> My whole life I have fished smaller streams and rivers for trout. I have this vision of wading around a bend and a mermaid is sitting on a rock. Standing in the river with chaps and a fly rod works too.
> 
> 
> 
> kellyM87 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hate to burst your bubble..... "Normal" girls don't walk around dressed like that..... Get a fancy camera and some Benjamin's and you might be in business.....
> 
> 
> 
> K, just what defines a normal girl? Do you think you fit that 'normal' definition? I think girls like to fly fish, I know a number of them. One just bought a house on a trout stream. The house includes a 6 stall horse barn. Hmmm? I'm good friends with her.
Click to expand...


----------



## Setter

I am having a litter of pups around April with Autumn being the dam that was sired by Mac's Reed. Sire for this litter is same one that I used in 2011 that produced 8 awesome pups that are hunting fools with lots of point and style. Don't know if I can have as nice of a ltter this time but with Dr. Carpenter's magic we are going to try.


----------



## kellyM87

Bobby said:


> midwestfisherman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My whole life I have fished smaller streams and rivers for trout. I have this vision of wading around a bend and a mermaid is sitting on a rock. Standing in the river with chaps and a fly rod works too.
> 
> 
> 
> K, just what defines a normal girl? Do you think you fit that 'normal' definition? I think girls like to fly fish, I know a number of them. One just bought a house on a trout stream. The house includes a 6 stall horse barn. Hmmm? I'm good friends with her.
> 
> 
> 
> What?!
Click to expand...


----------



## Worm Dunker

I went out this afternoon and shot some pictures. Now hunt101 isn't working. I'll try again later.


----------



## Worm Dunker

Bobby you need to fish in bare country to see these kind of shots. We have a spot we hunt along the AuSable you see girls in canoes some times all their wearing is a smile.


----------



## Mike McDonald

Setter said:


> I am having a litter of pups around April with Autumn being the dam that was sired by Mac's Reed. Sire for this litter is same one that I used in 2011 that produced 8 awesome pups that are hunting fools with lots of point and style. Don't know if I can have as nice of a ltter this time but with Dr. Carpenter's magic we are going to try.


Autumn is a very nice dog. I don't know the sire or pups from the previous litter but I really do like Autumn. mac


----------



## Bobby

kellyM87 said:


> Bobby said:
> 
> 
> 
> What?!
> 
> 
> 
> I might not have properly made my point. No offense meant.
Click to expand...


----------



## English Setter Gal

Setter said:


> I am having a litter of pups around April with Autumn being the dam that was sired by Mac's Reed. Sire for this litter is same one that I used in 2011 that produced 8 awesome pups that are hunting fools with lots of point and style. Don't know if I can have as nice of a ltter this time but with Dr. Carpenter's magic we are going to try.


A friend of ours has one of those pups. He has 3 young kids and a couple of horses. Dog gets along great with the kids and the horses and her owner thinks the sun rises and sets on her. She has style, an excellent nose and she hunts for her owner.


----------



## midwestfisherman

Bobby said:


> kellyM87 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I might not have properly made my point. No offense meant.
> 
> 
> 
> Bobby, don't go and piss KellyM87 off she might not bring those cookies to the trial!
Click to expand...


----------



## Milo

Here's a female of my hunting partner.
Below is my old male.


----------



## Worm Dunker

[/IMG] 








[/IMG]








[/IMG]








[/IMG]









[/IMG]

You can see the lack of intensity these are all eithor bunny or twetty birds points. The bottom picture I thought I was going to have a problem. But the bunny decided Hunter was no beagle and it holed!!!

He did move somebodys left over quail. I didn't get there in time just seen it fly.


----------



## English Setter Gal




----------



## babyelvis

Thanks for the replies. I don't know how much range I am looking for. I do plan to do most of my hunting with my kids and don't want to be running through the woods or always searching for the dog. Most of the cover I will be hunting I would not be able to see a dog much more than 50-60 yards.


----------



## Worm Dunker

Becarfull what you ask for. You can always get a dog to run closer. You can't get a slow and close working dog to run faster or bigger. You and the kids just crashing through the brush will move close birds. A bigger running dog can pin that moving bird till you and the kidds get there. At least that is the way it's suppose to work!


----------



## babyelvis

Thanks for the input Wormdunker, like I said I am not sure of what I want, I just know what I plan on doing with it and that is why I am on here seeking advise.


----------



## Merimac

I just have to say my kill percentage is higher with my closer working dog. I will say he also finds just as many birds as any of my other dogs. I know this is against field trial setter dog code but in this case it is true. He works at about 75 yards.


----------



## BIGSP

Merimac said:


> I just have to say my kill percentage is higher with my closer working dog. I will say he also finds just as many birds as any of my other dogs. I know this is against field trial setter dog code but in this case it is true. He works at about 75 yards.


Ben,
I have always maintained that there is a point of diminishing returns on bigger running dogs. I personally like my dogs to average about 100 yards. Much beyond 125 the points I get don't produce as many good shots. That being said, my 3 year old pointer really learned to track grouse this year and would move with them without bumping them but, she really punches it out over 150 yards.

I personally don't know anyone who kills piles of grouse with dogs that are consistently running over 150 yards. I'm sure there are a couple of people who do it but in my circle I don't know anyone.


----------



## TrekJeff

Had a great evening of training this past tuesday. "Birdsonthebrain" help out quite a bit with not only evaluating where my pup is, but also helped me understand what to work on and what to avoid. He put her on some pigeons and I was smiling from ear to ear. She went from being a soft setter to a dog on bird crack. It was great to see her potential (despite the sight point in the picture, she nailed it prior to the launcher going off). We have a lot to work on, but it's looking great.










Quote:
Originally Posted by Setter View Post
I am having a litter of pups around April with Autumn being the dam that was sired by Mac's Reed. Sire for this litter is same one that I used in 2011 that produced 8 awesome pups that are hunting fools with lots of point and style. Don't know if I can have as nice of a ltter this time but with Dr. Carpenter's magic we are going to try.


English Setter Gal said:


> A friend of ours has one of those pups. He has 3 young kids and a couple of horses. Dog gets along great with the kids and the horses and her owner thinks the sun rises and sets on her. She has style, an excellent nose and she hunts for her owner.


Also, I can vouch for Autumn. I had the pleasure of hunting with her and her daughter aspen this year at the Veterans Hunt at tails a waggin. She was what inspired me to look for a Setter


----------



## Setter

I was fun to hunt with you and your dad that day at Tails-a Waggin. The dogs always have fun when there are birds involved and are pleased whne the hunters can drop the birds from the sky for them. I am looking forward to doing that again this year.


----------



## Bobby

babyelvis said:


> Thanks for the replies. I don't know how much range I am looking for. I do plan to do most of my hunting with my kids and don't want to be running through the woods or always searching for the dog. Most of the cover I will be hunting I would not be able to see a dog much more than 50-60 yards.


With a pointing dog you don't need to see it to hunt with it, you do need to be able to hear it with bell or beeper. You do need to keep track of it so it is easier to find when it does stop.



Worm Dunker said:


> Be Careful what you ask for. You can always get a dog to run closer. You can't get a slow and close working dog to run faster or bigger. You and the kids just crashing through the brush will move close birds. A bigger running dog can pin that moving bird till you and the kidds get there. At least that is the way it's suppose to work!


When you are hunting with a pointing dog you don't need to crash thru the brush until the dog stops and points. That's one reason to have a pointing dog. When you finish a hunt you don't look like you went 12 rounds with Rocky. 



Merimac said:


> I just have to say my kill percentage is higher with my closer working dog. I will say he also finds just as many birds as any of my other dogs. I know this is against field trial setter dog code but in this case it is true. He works at about 75 yards.


I would agree completely and I have heard the same statement from many a field trialer. Range is always a hot topic.


----------



## kek25

Good to see the room still going strong.

Hey Grandpa Wormdunker. I thought you were working on some more photos?

If you get up to Gladwin and Highland this spring hopefully you'll post some of those photos here as well.


----------



## Steelheadfred

Merimac said:


> I just have to say my kill percentage is higher with my closer working dog. I will say he also finds just as many birds as any of my other dogs. I know this is against field trial setter dog code but in this case it is true. He works at about 75 yards.


Good stuff Ben.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Birdsonthebrain

TrekJeff said:


> Had a great evening of training this past tuesday. "Birdsonthebrain" help out quite a bit with not only evaluating where my pup is, but also helped me understand what to work on and what to avoid. He put her on some pigeons and I was smiling from ear to ear. She went from being a soft setter to a dog on bird crack. It was great to see her potential (despite the sight point in the picture, she nailed it prior to the launcher going off). We have a lot to work on, but it's looking great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Setter View Post
> I am having a litter of pups around April with Autumn being the dam that was sired by Mac's Reed. Sire for this litter is same one that I used in 2011 that produced 8 awesome pups that are hunting fools with lots of point and style. Don't know if I can have as nice of a ltter this time but with Dr. Carpenter's magic we are going to try.
> 
> 
> Also, I can vouch for Autumn. I had the pleasure of hunting with her and her daughter aspen this year at the Veterans Hunt at tails a waggin. She was what inspired me to look for a Setter


It was a pleasure meeting you and Bena. It was great watching her light up around the birds.


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Merimac said:


> I just have to say my kill percentage is higher with my closer working dog. I will say he also finds just as many birds as any of my other dogs. I know this is against field trial setter dog code but in this case it is true. He works at about 75 yards.


Harmon?


----------



## Bobby

2ESRGR8 said:


> * Harmon?*


Angie Harmon?


----------



## Duece22

Bobby said:


> Angie Harmon?


Yes


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Worm Dunker

Kek 25 I was going to Ky next week to work dogs but that's on hold for now. I'm waiting for the results from my M.R.I. first. Next Sunday I'm taking old Jake to a M.S. hunt so hopefully I'll get some pictures there. Jake will be the only setter there and I'll be the only flying the setter freak flag.



Merimac and Bobby running big verses not so big dogs I think has more to due with the cover than range. My best honey hole is pie shaped with beaver dams on both sides. I offen though somebody with a small ground scenting Britt could shoot a limmit evey time they went there. The guys that I have taken there we run bell or beepers. We yell back and forth bird headed your way and so on. Don't get me wrong I still like to eat grouse but I've pretty much lost the thrill of the kill. Now dog has to have a picture perfect point first. Then I take the picturefirst. If the grouse is stupid enough to set all that time I'll pop him. Those birds don't need to breed!


----------



## Merimac

2ESRGR8 said:


> Harmon?


Yep, Harmondo! at 1 and a half he did things in the field that make me grin. No where near a field trial dog but he is a real bird dog. He can really pin a grouse.


----------



## Merimac

Worm Dunker said:


> Kek 25 I was going to Ky next week to work dogs but that's on hold for now. I'm waiting for the results from my M.R.I. first. Next Sunday I'm taking old Jake to a M.S. hunt so hopefully I'll get some pictures there. Jake will be the only setter there and I'll be the only flying the setter freak flag.
> 
> 
> 
> Merimac and Bobby running big verses not so big dogs I think has more to due with the cover than range. My best honey hole is pie shaped with beaver dams on both sides. I offen though somebody with a small ground scenting Britt could shoot a limmit evey time they went there. The guys that I have taken there we run bell or beepers. We yell back and forth bird headed your way and so on. Don't get me wrong I still like to eat grouse but I've pretty much lost the thrill of the kill. Now dog has to have a picture perfect point first. Then I take the picturefirst. If the grouse is stupid enough to set all that time I'll pop him. Those birds don't need to breed!


Terry, I agree I am not a guy who needs to kill a ton of grouse but I need legitimate productive opportunities. My dog Addie produces more grouse than I can dream of and looks like a million bucks doing it.( 2 years ago she had 300 pointed grouse for me during the hunting season( not to mention the off season with Me and or Jerry Kolter)) She made me work damn hard to do it though. When every point is at 100-300 yards away through thick crap, its fun for a while, but I prefer to have them at 100 or- . I run 30 + days a year during the season and work 3-4 dogs a day usually. I like the mix of dogs some that make you work and some that are on auto pilot. Harmon is auto pilot. He is not a perfect dogs and has limitations but I would not trade him for any dog I have.

Ben


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Merimac said:


> Yep, Harmondo! at 1 and a half he did things in the field that make me grin. No where near a field trial dog but he is a real bird dog. He can really pin a grouse.


I thought so. When I saw that picture of him ice fishing with you the other day I thought he had a bit more bone to him than your other dogs. I figured he didn't run as far or wide as the others.


----------



## Merimac

2ESRGR8 said:


> I thought so. When I saw that picture of him ice fishing with you the other day I thought he had a bit more bone to him than your other dogs. I figured he didn't run as far or wide as the others.


Yep he's a 53 pounder. He has some dandy litter mates.


----------



## Bobby

1st post in 3 days..........***. More girls on horses.....let's 'em, especially if there are setters running out front.


----------



## midwestfisherman




----------



## midwestfisherman




----------



## 2ESRGR8

Bobby said:


> .....let's 'em,




Great post Jim.


----------



## aimus1

Lucky Horse :evil:


----------



## FieldWalker

2ESRGR8 said:


> Great post Jim.


I'm a little scared how much Jim may be searching "women with horses" though...


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## 2ESRGR8

FieldWalker said:


> I'm a little scared how much Jim may be searching "women with horses" though...


Odd. I thought we had more in common, I wish Jim would link me to the homepage.


----------



## k9wernet

I think Bobby, Jim and Scott (and the rest of the girls-with-horses crowd) are falling prey to a simple spelling error. Kind of like this kid:


----------



## kellyM87

k9wernet said:


> I think Bobby, Jim and Scott (and the rest of the girls-with-horses crowd) are falling prey to a simple spelling error. Kind of like this kid:


I had that on my FB page. Bout died the first time I saw it laughing


----------



## midwestfisherman

k9wernet said:


> I think Bobby, Jim and Scott (and the rest of the girls-with-horses crowd) are falling prey to a simple spelling error. Kind of like this kid:


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:ne_eye:


----------



## Scott Berg

Now that is the post of the year so far. I about fell off my chair, especially the part about mom saying no. 



k9wernet said:


> I think Bobby, Jim and Scott (and the rest of the girls-with-horses crowd) are falling prey to a simple spelling error. Kind of like this kid:


----------



## Worm Dunker

I have enough problems just putting my dog pictures on let a lone women with horses. Must be I'm spending to much time with the dogs than the computer! 

Now that the cold has set in the dogs are going crazy.








[/IMG]

You guys that trial are you reading the endurance discussion? Hunter has run in it three times I thought he was going to run again this spring but things have changed and he might not make it.


----------



## 2ESRGR8

k9wernet said:


> I think Bobby, Jim and Scott (and the rest of the girls-with-horses crowd) are falling prey to a simple spelling error. Kind of like this kid:


Jim and I possibly but Bobby no way, he is the Spelling Nazi.


----------



## midwestfisherman

2ESRGR8 said:


> Jim and I possibly but Bobby no way, he is the Spelling Nazi.











^^ Bobby ^^


----------



## midwestfisherman

For Mr. Grush.


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Hell yeah! I will buy my own hores.


----------



## Worm Dunker

Finnally some fresh setter hunting pictures. This new camera is giving me fits. I'de get a great shot zomed centered then I hit the wrong button and turn camera off. These were from the M-S hunt today.








[/IMG]

Jake helped put some of these on the truck. He didn't retrieve any the short hair was to fast for old fat boy.








[/IMG]

How come none of you setter guys go to these hunts anymore? You all can't be worried those dogs with passports and duck dogs out hunting your setter are you! 

If you look Jakes pads got all cut had to put him up early.


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## Worm Dunker

[/IMG]








[/IMG]








[/IMG]


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## kek25

Thanks Terry. They look great. Nice sunny day by the looks of those long shadows.

Great day for traveling or following dogs in the field. I ended up taking a road trip to Indiana to pick up a boat.


----------



## k9wernet

Worm Dunker said:


> These were from the M-S hunt today.
> 
> How come none of you setter guys go to these hunts anymore? You all can't be worried those dogs with passports and duck dogs out hunting your setter are you!
> 
> If you look Jakes pads got all cut had to put him up early.


What's an MS hunt?


----------



## kek25

k9wernet said:


> What's an MS hunt?


Michigan Sportsman get together out at Bear Creek.


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## Worm Dunker

Michigan-sportsman members hunt. We use to due a couple of them a year. Everybody brought a dish to pass for a meal after the hunt. For some reason the weather always turned nasty cold with hurican winds. I got a picture of a women the wind was so bad it blew her pony tail back up over her head while she was shooting. It's was where I first meet BearCreek, Drwink, Midwestfisherman, Budwiser, RudyT, GSP, and others. This and the grouse camps I think just got so competive people just quite coming.


----------



## Bobby

midwestfisherman said:


> For Mr. Grush.


Thank you Jimmy.


----------



## Bobby

The setter thread has run down and almost out, now we continue the cowgirl thread. OR.....these may be the judge, the handler and the reporter going to a dog on point during the fall trial season.


----------



## midwestfisherman

Should we add girls and tractors?


----------



## 2ESRGR8




----------



## Worm Dunker

I throw on some setter training pictures to keep this part of of the post a live! 

These are from this morning this is my non hunting house dog.She blinked the bird after release she chased in back to the loft. 







[/IMG]

Hunter








[/IMG]








[/IMG]








[/IMG]








[/IMG]


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## Worm Dunker

[/IMG]








[/IMG]

A couple of skin head pictures. Randy helped me today and these are his pigeons. This pup is 18 months.








[/IMG]








[/IMG]


----------



## FindTheBird

This says little of the many factors required to win the big dance, but a shag had a potentially competitive run at the National today, at least by the bird count:
http://www.amesplantation.org/field-trials/2013-national-championship/brace-by-brace-synopsis/


----------



## Bobby

Dexter is standing right over there, just behind that tangle of spruce. We shouldhave packed the shotguns this weekend.


----------



## kellyM87

FindTheBird said:


> This says little of the many factors required to win the big dance, but a shag had a potentially competitive run at the National today, at least by the bird count:
> http://www.amesplantation.org/field-trials/2013-national-championship/brace-by-brace-synopsis/


A friend of mine who was there also said he had a strong race, finished strong and had a covey find at p/u!!! Here's to hoping a setter finally takes it this year! Bo and Jabba good luck!


----------



## Bobby

FindTheBird said:


> This says little of the many factors required to win the big dance, but *a shag *had a potentially competitive run at the National today, at least by the bird count:
> http://www.amesplantation.org/field-trials/2013-national-championship/brace-by-brace-synopsis/



That shag is Shadow Oak Bo, the winningest setter on the All Age circuit he last few years.


*Overnight drizzle added to the already wet terrain. Damp and 38 degrees at the start. Shadow Oak Bo tallied seven finds and also had three backs. Rivertons Funseek'n Scooter notched five and also had an unproductive. Both dogs finished the three hours.*


One of Bo's boys, Sadie's too.










One of Bo's grand daughters











Go Bo....................................


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## kellyM87

Love the look of that setter, Bobby. Like the clean body and the build.

Only what 28 dogs to go? lol


----------



## FindTheBird

kellyM87 said:


> A friend of mine who was there also said he had a strong race, finished strong and had a covey find at p/u!!! Here's to hoping a setter finally takes it this year! Bo and Jabba good luck!


Maybe the drought is broken--Go Bo!
(I'm still a pointer guy though).


----------



## Milo

This was the first bird for the hunter and dog. The dog is 8 months. He took this bird last Sat.


----------



## TrekJeff

Shag...Setter?
Skinhead...pointer?

Ok, where's the slang glossary...lol


----------



## k9wernet

Milo said:


> This was the first bird for the hunter and dog. The dog is 8 months. He took this bird last Sat.


Very nice! One of those mythical KY grouse?  Who is the young hunter?


----------



## midwestfisherman

FindTheBird said:


> Maybe the drought is broken--Go Bo!
> (I'm still a pointer guy though).


You'll see the light someday! 



TrekJeff said:


> Shag...Setter?
> Skinhead...pointer?
> 
> Ok, where's the slang glossary...lol


You got it!


----------



## FindTheBird

midwestfisherman said:


> You'll see the light someday!


Jim, being the intelligent gentleman that you are, I'm sure you will too!


----------



## midwestfisherman

FindTheBird said:


> Jim, being the intelligent gentleman that you are, I'm sure you will too!


:lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## VstarBR

this is my 10 week old setter playing in the field. seems to like it except for the deep snow on his belly!


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Bobby

VstarBR said:


> View attachment 32485
> this is my 10 week old setter playing in the field. seems to like it except for the deep snow on his belly!
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Nice
Have fun


----------



## midwestfisherman

VstarBR said:


> View attachment 32485
> this is my 10 week old setter playing in the field. seems to like it except for the deep snow on his belly!
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Good looking pup!


----------



## Walkinwoodsman

Davey my 1st setter. 





















Talon I know only supposed to be English setters but you guys have slipped a couple of times also. Lol










Duke


----------



## kek25

Good looking bird dogs. I'm partial to the pink eyed dogs. What was Davey's breeding? 



Walkinwoodsman said:


> Davey my 1st setter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Talon I know only supposed to be English setters but you guys have slipped a couple of times also. Lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Duke


----------



## Walkinwoodsman

To be honest I don't really know. Found him in the paper in the early 90s. If I remember right it was "Country sunshine kennels" in southern michigan. I just knew I wanted a setter and didn't know where to look. Not to disrespect Talon & Duke they're both good but not like Davey.


----------



## fishinlk

Nice pics!


----------



## sweet16dbls

Hazel at 7 weeks








Hazel at 10 weeks









Her breeding is Tomoka/Havelock Blacksmith


----------



## TimBuckTwo

Just read all 37 pages of this. My initial impression of the room is that it's full of passionate perverts and a a few setter nuts, not to mention a few females who continually get roped into rating other women. I loved all of it, carry on and I will see all of you soon.


----------



## 2ESRGR8

TimBuckTwo said:


> Just read all 37 pages of this. My initial impression of the room is that it's full of passionate perverts and a a few setter nuts, not to mention a few females who continually get roped into rating other women. I loved all of it, carry on and I will see all of you soon.


Agreed. :help:


----------



## Bobby

....perverts? Reading comprehension sir.


----------



## midwestfisherman

Preverts! All of you! ne_eye:  ne_eye:

With that said, I present.....


----------



## 2ESRGR8

C'mon Jim this is the Setter room, no assault guns please, leave those to the german dog folk.


----------



## midwestfisherman

2ESRGR8 said:


> C'mon Jim this is the Setter room, no assault guns please, leave those to the german dog folk.


Dam, my bad Scott. Don't know what got into me!


----------



## Bobby

2ESRGR8 said:


> C'mon Jim this is the Setter room, no assault guns please, leave those to the german dog folk.


Assault weapons? Those are assault women.


----------



## FindTheBird

Worm Dunker said:


> I ran dogs with FindTheBird Mike today. I posted pictures on a different post but here is one from after the training!


The bigger question is how was the handler feeling afterward?:lol:



Worm Dunker said:


> Bobby a win by a setter at the Grand is really big. I personally didn't think it would ever happen. But who wins the Invatational is the top of my game. The Grand how ever prestigous it is it's still a liberated bird game. Those dogs are trained to run edges and from feeder to feeder.


From what I see in the Field, I think that they still run a lot of AA on wild birds. A lot of those trials are run on 30,000-40,000 acre parcels, and I think the only practical way to plant birds would be from a helicopter


----------



## Worm Dunker

Bobby my mistake. I thought it was called the grand national ch. and with my spelling and typing i just typed the grand. I don't follow horse back but I understood all of these trials were held on big ranches on quail. You run a dog off a hoarse back for two hours(or even a hour) you need lots of land and birds. Quail numbers are down everywhere so they use those serogaters(sp) that hold both birds and food. It doesn't take a rocket science to figure where birds would be. Isn't it why they call these braces races? We setter guys get on the owners of german dog for breeding in pointer. What about the pointer guys that breed in hound for run and indurance. This is why I didn't think a setter would ever win it. This in no way takes away from what Bo did. He beat the best of the best. Remember I'm the only guy on here who always flyes the setter freak flag.


----------



## Worm Dunker

Mike that one fall no big thing I'm use to falling a lot.





From what I see in the Field, I think that they still run a lot of AA on wild birds. A lot of those trials are run on 30,000-40,000 acre parcels, and I think the only practical way to plant birds would be from a helicopter .

Are these run on public land or are they all private ranches? I've hunted a big private ranck in Ks. that still put out pheasants. Look at South Dakota how many pheasants they plant.


----------



## Scott Berg

Worm Dunker said:


> Mike that one fall no big thing I'm use to falling a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what I see in the Field, I think that they still run a lot of AA on wild birds. A lot of those trials are run on 30,000-40,000 acre parcels, and I think the only practical way to plant birds would be from a helicopter .
> 
> Are these run on public land or are they all private ranches? I've hunted a big private ranck in Ks. that still put out pheasants. Look at South Dakota how many pheasants they plant.


Most are on large ranches or sometimes several landowners that collectively allow trials to be run. I am not going to try to list them all but there are a numerous wild bird trials throughout the west. I have been to trials in MT, ND, SD, WI, and they all have excellent bird numbers as do the trials in Canada. The WI grounds are all public grounds. One of the grounds managed for Prairie Chicken and the other two are managed for Sharptail. There are nearly as many HB Shooting Dog trials and we also run our ABHA walking Championship on the Wisconsin grounds. (sharptail)

I think many people forget these pros spend the summer in training camps across the prairie states and Canada. Hopefully this win and the discussion generated from it will make more people aware of the variety of tests these dogs pass before they even make it into adult stakes, especially on the major circuit. Just my opinion but I believe our breed could benefit from a broader perspective. 

SRB


----------



## kek25

Scott, can you expound on the the types of tests these dogs pass on their way to being qualified for the National Championship. I read the book Zip Zap a while back detailing Mike Gaddis' journey and thought it well portrayed the trials and tribulations dog and owner go through when they choose that road.

I highly recommend the book to anyone interested in what it takes to campaign dogs at the hightest levels of the sport. Although Gaddis owned setters, the book crosses all lines from the persective of the trialer.


----------



## smokem

Jazz with a nice point on a ditch chicken. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## kellyM87

a picture of my dads 9 month old Jetwood x Ch. Cooper Mountain Pepsi pup. He has been doing really we with birds and pleased with him.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Bobby

kellyM87 said:


> View attachment 33260
> a picture of my dads 9 month old Jetwood x Ch. Cooper Mountain Pepsi pup. He has been doing really we with birds and pleased with him.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Does Dad also have OCD? Will we see him in Gladwin or Highland or Ionia?
Just askin'.

Nice pup.


----------



## kellyM87

Bobby said:


> Does Dad also have OCD? Will we see him in Gladwin or Highland or Ionia?
> Just askin'.
> 
> Nice pup.


Wow. My phone sucks! Sorry about my poor.... Everything. I doubt you will see my dad at any gladwin trials. Possibly highland. He is not OCD. Must have came from my mother.


----------



## Milo

When do the trials start? Is there any trials held is southern Michigan?


----------



## Bobby

Look here then ask questions.

http://coverdog.blogspot.com/


----------



## Ericgmci

Bobby said:


> Look here then ask questions.
> 
> http://coverdog.blogspot.com/


Better yet, look here: www.michigannstra.com


----------



## HankVIII

Pigeon pointing. Pics of lucy working on steadiness.















posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## northwinsetter

Ericgmci said:


> Better yet, look here: www.michigannstra.com


----------



## Xerxes Llewellins

Temps in the 40's made for some unseasonably cool hunting weather. Two dogs worked 3 hours & "Little Moll' " hunted 4 hours. This was a released bird hunt @ Burge Plantation. 1st photo - One of my hardest hunting dogs, Bull' (Xerxes Highland Bullet). 14 pheasant & 15 quail brought to the table on a 3 hr morning. 2nd photo of Bull's son "T", making the "blind" retrieve.


----------



## Fix_F16

kellyM87 said:


> View attachment 33260
> a picture of my dads 9 month old Jetwood x Ch. Cooper Mountain Pepsi pup. He has been doing really we with birds and pleased with him.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


I always wondered if Cooper Mountain Pepsi had any other litters. My 3 yr old is from her, sired by Rocko.


----------



## k9wernet

Ericgmci said:


> Better yet, look here: www.michigannstra.com


Did you get lost? This is a setter thread, not a GSP thread


----------



## Bobby

Milo said:


> When do the trials start? Is there any trials held is southern Michigan?


There is a US Complete sanctioned walking trial March 16 & 17.
There are coverdog trials thru-out the month of April in Gladwin County. That's Southern Mi for a bunch of folks.
There is a walking trial at Highland April 27/28, I do not know what stakes will be run. The main even is a US Complete Great Lakes Regional Championship.


What format are you interested in running?


----------



## Bobby

k9wernet said:


> Did you get lost? This is a setter thread, not a GSP thread


----------



## Bobby

.............from one setter nut to another...............you no who you are....


----------



## Xerxes Llewellins

Bobby said:


> .............from one setter nut to another...............you no who you are....



Not to (  ) mention Know & No !!


----------



## Ericgmci

k9wernet said:


> Did you get lost? This is a setter thread, not a GSP thread


Lol. They can all have a fair shake in our game, even with a stub tail!


----------



## Bobby

Bobby said:


> There is a US Complete sanctioned walking trial March 16 & 17.
> There are coverdog trials thru-out the month of April in Gladwin County. That's Southern Mi for a bunch of folks.
> There is a walking trial at Highland April 27/28, I do not know what stakes will be run. The main even is a US Complete Great Lakes Regional Championship.
> 
> 
> What format are you interested in running?


I read the ad this AM, March 23/24 there will be a combo Horseback/Walking stake (US Complete for the walking) in Ionia. That is all the details I have as I type.


----------



## Bobby

Ericgmci said:


> Lol. They can all have a fair shake in our game, even with a stub tail!



Your statement implies a stub tail can't get a fair shake; where?


----------



## Jay Johnson

Jaybird's Trout Lily.

I'm hopeful that she will become the next generation of my grouse dog dynasty.


----------



## Ericgmci

Bobby said:


> Your statement implies a stub tail can't get a fair shake; where?


Not going to get into it.....was just giving K9 a reply. 

I've got skinheads, stub tails and shags-still trying to find one worth a darn!


----------



## k9wernet

Bobby said:


> .............from one setter nut to another...............you no who you are....


That is just two funny! (Do too the mispellings)


----------



## k9wernet

Ericgmci said:


> Not going to get into it


Just doing my best to open a can of worms and get this thread started again...



Ericgmci said:


> I've got skinheads, stub tails and shags-still trying to find one worth a darn!


Can you explain WHY such a variety of breeds? Is it because any dog can win on any day in NSTRA, due to a comparative lack of unbiased, objective trial standards?


----------



## Worm Dunker

Well I though I'de try something new today and it didn't work. Hunter had two really nice bunny points. One was even steady to hop off. Really suprised me he didn't chase it.








[/IMG]








[/IMG]

The part that didn't work tried a new dog boy.








[/IMG]

She didn't work! After 30 min. of asking why are we going this way now I remembered why it didn't work last time!


----------



## WestCoastHunter

k9wernet said:


> Just doing my best to open a can of worms and get this thread started again...
> 
> 
> 
> Can you explain WHY such a variety of breeds? Is it because any dog can win on any day in NSTRA, due to a comparative lack of unbiased, objective trial standards?


Wrong question.

Better question to ask is why is NSTRA so popular these days?

The answer in my mind is guys want something that matches what they expect and even need in reality. A dog that has some endurance and that can retrieve. Something more foot hunter friendly doesn't hurt either.

Imagine having hiked up to where this Pointer is, you shoot a couple of chukar and then you have to hike down and try to find them...or you can send your dog down for the retrieve. 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zw0-GsEM4k"]Sunny in the hills - YouTube[/ame]

Michigan is flat as a pancake. Finding a dead bird there is something different from finding a dead bird where I live now.


----------



## Ericgmci

Can you explain WHY such a variety of breeds? Is it because any dog can win on any day in NSTRA, due to a comparative lack of unbiased, objective trial standards?[/QUOTE]

WHY NOT? I like good bird dogs not breeds no sense in being blind to what's out there.


----------



## Worm Dunker

I just talked with a friend that is ritting a story on Shadow Oak Bo. He is 55lbs. His stud fee is 1000.00 and his pups are 1200.00.


----------



## k9wernet

Ericgmci said:


> WHY NOT? I like good bird dogs not breeds no sense in being blind to what's out there.


I have an EP, GSP and a mutt. Again... just trying to open a can of worms.


----------



## midwestfisherman

Let me remind you all that this is a Setter thread. Only Setter peeps need apply!


----------



## Bobby

Worm Dunker said:


> I just talked with a friend that is* ritting *a story on Shadow Oak Bo. He is 55lbs. His stud fee is 1000.00 and his pups are 1200.00.


That's a new challenge for the spell checker.


Bo's stud fee has been $1000 for just over 2 years. I'm wondering where it will go now that he's the National Champ. He is 7 years old.

Someone asked for Bo's pedigree. Here it is. It can be expanded to 9 generations.

http://www.williewalker.net/dogarchive3/details.php?id=74487&gens=5


----------



## northwinsetter

Bobby said:


> http://www.williewalker.net/dogarchive3/details.php?id=74487&gens=5


That's quite an informative database. Surfed around it some. Great reference source. Others may have been aware of it but it's new to me. Thanks.


----------



## midwestfisherman




----------



## Bobby

A mermaid........................a real life mermaid.






midwestfisherman said:


>


----------



## Steelheadfred

Bobby said:


> A mermaid........................a real life mermaid.


 
Lots better photos of April out there.


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Steelheadfred said:


> Lots better photos of April out there.


Don't be so stingy and while you are at it maybe share May and June also.


----------



## Bobby

Cowgirls and boobs aside, this thread is just cruising along, not gaining any ground for some time on the spaniel thread. Let's go folks. 

This is Lucy Too, a litter mate to my Maddie Mae, owned by Paul Renius. Brought him over from the stub tail side, brit guy until now.

Just took him hunting a few times with my setters and he was hooked. Yea, even my old mutts with their less than stellar handler made a difference.


----------



## Bobby

Lucy Too..........again


----------



## Bobby

Lucy Too one more time...............


----------



## Bobby

Welcome home................


----------



## Bobby

Maddie Mae with Ruby Lou (mom)


----------



## Worm Dunker

Welcome home I can relate to that!








[/IMG]


----------



## midwestfisherman

Bobby said:


> Welcome home................


:yikes: :yikes: :yikes:



Bobby said:


> Maddie Mae with Ruby Lou (mom)


Ruby Lou: "Who's bright idea was it to bring this dam thing home?!" :idea:


----------



## kek25

Love those welcome home photos. Looks like the furniture in both cases came through unscathed. I don't have a photo but remember years ago when my wife and I were first married we came home to find the entire left arm of our brand new couch taken down to the skeleton by our year-and-a-half old Golden, whom we thought had passed the puppy stage. Unforutnately, no newpapers or other paper goods around to keep her otherwise occupied from eating the couch. Lol.


----------



## kellyM87

Bobby said:


> Cowgirls and boobs aside, this thread is just cruising along, not gaining any ground for some time on the spaniel thread. Let's go folks.
> 
> This is Lucy Too, a litter mate to my Maddie Mae, owned by Paul Renius. Brought him over from the stub tail side, brit guy until now.
> 
> Just took him hunting a few times with my setters and he was hooked. Yea, even my old mutts with their less than stellar handler made a difference.


 
Aww! You must be a proud Grandpa! Looking great for such a little one.


----------



## kellyM87

A video of my dad's 9 month old Jetwood X Ch. Cooper Mountain Pepsi pup. His name is Ender. This pup lives the life, 

This video was taken in Tennesee on liberated quail. Without any training he was holding until flush. Pretty impressive.

http://youtu.be/qq4NMT8JyOY


----------



## Stub tail




----------



## Stub tail




----------



## FieldWalker

Stub tail said:


>


Does every grouse hunter look at the dog in a photo like this... then instantly look at the background wondering if they know the particular location of the photo?


----------



## Bobby

FieldWalker said:


> Does every grouse hunter look at the dog in a photo like this... then instantly look at the background wondering if they know the particular location of the photo?


Every single time.


----------



## TCpat&trout

FieldWalker said:


> Does every grouse hunter look at the dog in a photo like this... then instantly look at the background wondering if they know the particular location of the photo?


Yep. Looks like a couple of mine. 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Glenmorangie

FieldWalker said:


> Does every grouse hunter look at the dog in a photo like this... then instantly look at the background wondering if they know the particular location of the photo?


Yes. Sadly, yes I do.

Unfortunately there is a darker, lonelier road we "cover envy" sufferers often travel. It's not pretty; it carries with it lots of shame, guilt and regret.

When I first moved to Michigan I suffered from cover dysfunction (cd). I looked for a magical blue pill in cyber scouting, exhaustive search engine usage and only had moderate success. As desperation sets in with the calander flipped to September I succumbed to Facebook intelligence gathering. Stocked with a name here, a location there; my efforts were to scour the photos brags in hopes that a location would have been inadvertently mentioned.

I'll save you the rest of my shame. However, like a 12 step recovery program, I rose from the pit. Mi-hunt maps, talking with the MDNR, diesel fuel, new tires and boots on the ground gave way to some covers of my very own. Did I mention diesel fuel and boots on the ground?

I'm not "there" yet. I don't know that I will ever be. I will say in answer to the question, yes. Yes, I believe every grouse hunter, for a variety of reasons, does wonder if they know the location of a particular photo.


----------



## VstarBR

10 weeks old today. Looking good, and loves to run in the woods!


----------



## midwestfisherman

VstarBR said:


> 10 weeks old today. Looking good, and loves to run in the woods!


Nice!


----------



## J-Lee

Very nice looking pup.


VstarBR said:


> 10 weeks old today. Looking good, and loves to run in the woods!


----------



## Bobby

VstarBR said:


> 10 weeks old today. Looking good, and loves to run in the woods!


Fun stuff at this age.


----------



## Worm Dunker

Got the old virus infected computer working again so I'll try post last setter pic. working woodcock. May have to post pic. as singles to get this machine to work.

And Bobby no spell check here!









[/IMG]

This is not a poor tail set picture. Cover was so thick he couldn't get it up. It's a male thing not a setter thing!


----------



## Worm Dunker

I can only load one picture at a time machine time out if I try more than one.








[/IMG]


----------



## Worm Dunker

Pic 3








[/IMG]


----------



## Worm Dunker

Last pic









[/IMG]


----------



## Glenmorangie

THE Field Bred English Setter Room thread should NEVER not be found but on page one and toward the top. That's its natural place.

Bump

[ame]http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab279/cashabc123/Max/image-1.jpg[/ame]


----------



## kek25

Agree wholeheartedly. Nice Tri Color!!

Also, thanks for posting your photos of Hunter, Terry. Hopefully you'll be able to keep this thread fresh with photos during the spring trial season.


----------



## Worm Dunker

I'm going to Hooter for free shrimp the boys taking his twin girls and they draw more girls than puppies! Maybe I'll get some good shots their and Sunday at Ionia the open walking shooting stake 9 or the 10 are setters and at least one of them is a champion so I hope to get so nice pictures there.


----------



## FindTheBird

Worm Dunker said:


> I'm going to Hooter for free shrimp the boys taking his twin girls and they draw more girls than puppies! Maybe I'll get some good shots their and Sunday at Ionia the open walking shooting stake 9 or the 10 are setters and at least one of them is a champion so I hope to get so nice pictures there.


I believe three are champions (or RU CH). See--I know something about setters!:lol:


----------



## Worm Dunker

I never understood that RU thing. Vance Butler and I had a very loooong dicussion about it at Gladwin and I still don't buy in to it! Rich Hollister sent me a real nice plaque with a picture of him(I took the picture)and Hunter when he ran Hunter as a puppy. It say Mi Amt. Hunting Stake winner which he did. Then it say Highland FTC Shooting Dog Winner which he didn't he was second. I don't care how well you call it second or RU. isn't a winner. I don't belittle any placements Hunter has six and I'm very proud of each but he's only won once.


----------



## kek25

I agree with you Terry. The winner is the first place finisher. The others placed.


----------



## Scott Berg

Worm Dunker said:


> I never understood that RU thing. Vance Butler and I had a very loooong dicussion about it at Gladwin and I still don't buy in to it! Rich Hollister sent me a real nice plaque with a picture of him(I took the picture)and Hunter when he ran Hunter as a puppy. It say Mi Amt. Hunting Stake winner which he did. Then it say Highland FTC Shooting Dog Winner which he didn't he was second. I don't care how well you call it second or RU. isn't a winner. I don't belittle any placements Hunter has six and I'm very proud of each but he's only won once.


I think this is merely a little confusion over the "win" record that appears on the pedigree. Perhaps it should be referred to as a placement record. Regardless, this is common in all sports. We have gold, silver, and bronze in many olympic sports. In golf or tennis R/U and even top 10s are considered in terms of accomplishment.

I don't agree with the all or nothing position either. Would you prefer to breed to a dog that ran in 50 trials and had 10 wins and no 2nd or 3rd place finishes or a dog that ran in 50 trials, had (9) wins, (9) 2nd, and (9) 3rds?

SRB


----------



## Duece22

Scott Berg said:


> I think this is merely a little confusion over the "win" record that appears on the pedigree. Perhaps it should be referred to as a placement record. Regardless, this is common in all sports. We have gold, silver, and bronze in many olympic sports. In golf or tennis R/U and even top 10s are considered in terms of accomplishment.
> 
> I don't agree with the all or nothing position either. Would you prefer to breed to a dog that ran in 50 trials and had 10 wins and no 2nd or 3rd place finishes or a dog that ran in 50 trials, had (9) wins, (9) 2nd, and (9) 3rds?
> 
> SRB


I agree with you Scott, but I have also wondered the same thing about the "winner" terminology. It seems logical it would be 1st,2nd,3rd and so on as you choose and that is how it should be recorded. It is confusing when you see someone say there dog was a "winner" when they took 3rd. 1st is winning 2nd is 2nd or runner up and so on in my mind. 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Mike McDonald

They should change it to the Montessori school system where everybody is a winner and there are no losers. mac


----------



## Bobby

Duece22 said:


> I agree with you Scott, but I have also wondered the same thing about the "winner" terminology. It seems logical it would be 1st,2nd,3rd and so on as you choose and that is how it should be recorded. It is confusing when you see someone say there dog was a "winner" when they took 3rd. 1st is winning 2nd is 2nd or runner up and so on in my mind.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


All endeavors have their tradition, their syntax, words that may have slightly different meanings when used in different arenas. 3rd place in a 6 dog draw really isn't a 'big' win, how much bigger is 1st place in this same draw? 3rd place in 60 dog draw is pretty damn good, it's all perspective, is the glass half full? 
This game chooses to call any placement a winner. So be it. Embrace it, I don't think your chances of changing it are good. I don't think the time spent worrying about it is time well spent. 


I will take any RU CH my dogs and I can earn and I will be happy to be 2nd (I have yet to accomplish this) And to anyone who would call this the 1st loser; unless the title RU CH was put on their dog, I would consider them the loser for their piss poor attitude.

Was that last sentence my piss poor attitude?


----------



## Duece22

Bobby said:


> All endeavors have their tradition, their syntax, words that may have slightly different meanings when used in different arenas. 3rd place in a 6 dog draw really isn't a 'big' win, how much bigger is 1st place in this same draw? 3rd place in 60 dog draw is pretty damn good, it's all perspective, is the glass half full?
> This game chooses to call any placement a winner. So be it. Embrace it, I don't think your chances of changing it are good. I don't think the time spent worrying about it is time well spent.
> 
> 
> I will take any RU CH my dogs and I can earn and I will be happy to be 2nd (I have yet to accomplish this) And to anyone who would call this the 1st loser; unless the title RU CH was put on their dog, I would consider them the loser for their piss poor attitude.
> 
> Was that last sentence my piss poor attitude?


Lol. I am definitely not trying to change it. Hell I own boot lickers. I was just stating from an outside perspective it is confusing to see a 3rd and winner be one in the same. Any placement in any trial be it 6 dogs or 60 is something to be proud of if you were proud of what your dog did and accomplished. 

Now take your bad attitude somewhere else. We are trying to gain traction and catch those spaniel boys  


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## BIGSP

Bobby said:


> I will take any RU CH my dogs and I can earn and I will be happy to be 2nd (I have yet to accomplish this) And to anyone who would call this the 1st loser; unless the title RU CH was put on their dog, I would consider them the loser for their piss poor attitude.
> 
> Was that last sentence my piss poor attitude?


Lets face a RU championship being called a win is different than a 3rd place finish at a weekend trial. Calling that a win is a bit if. Stretch for me. I'm not in the game so I'm sure my attitude would be different if I were.


----------



## kek25

I think they should add a few more categories such as first, second, and third closest to the winners so those dogs can be called winners too.


----------



## Worm Dunker

They way the R.U. was explained to me is it's just used in championships. So if they wanted to run dogs from different menues against each other. If the winner of( Mi. Woodcock Ch just to use as a expample) couldn't compete the runner up would fill in to represent the Woodcock Ch. against the other championships. And if I remember right it was one of those Boones Farm lunch and dinner descusions. Yes Bobby I'm on the old computer with out spell check!



I'de love to be a runner up at the invititanol that means I'de owned the second best grouse/woodcock in the country for the year won. Hell I'de die happy just to get a invatation to it!


----------



## TimBuckTwo

Mike McDonald said:


> They should change it to the Montessori school system where everybody is a winner and there are no losers. mac



:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Bobby

Duece22 said:


> Now take your bad attitude somewhere else. We are trying to gain traction and catch those spaniel boys
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


You should just jump back in the river and hook another boot


----------



## Glenmorangie

Pretty tough to do any puppy walks right now. The snow plow man got a little over zealous and this is about all we got as far as bare ground. I thought I'd run down to the tackle store, buy a bunch of worms, let them go and see if I could attract a woodcock. On second thought would that be baiting?


----------



## BIGSP

Worm Dunker said:


> I'de love to be a runner up at the invititanol that means I'de owned the second best grouse/woodcock in the country for the year won. Hell I'de die happy just to get a invatation to it!


Maybe in the trial world but I'm sure there a quite a few more meat dogs out there that could put more birds in the bag.  

Just stirring the pot I know you setter guys get a little squirrelly when someone questions a trial dog.


----------



## Mike McDonald

Glenmorangie said:


> Pretty tough to do any puppy walks right now. The snow plow man got a little over zealous and this is about all we got as far as bare ground. I thought I'd run down to the tackle store, buy a bunch of worms, let them go and see if I could attract a woodcock. On second thought would that be baiting?


 
That's a damn good looking dog.

I think the Ryman folks need to embrace the concept of changing a generally accepted definition to something entirely different. Sorta like a secret code. Then when you bought your Ryman puppy you'd automatically get a decoder ring. So you could understand what other 
Ryman owners were talking about but no one else would. mac


----------



## FindTheBird

With the vast majority of human (and a few canine) sports, I strongly agree with those who say that calling a "placement" a "win" is charitable to the extreme.

With dogs however, things are significantly different because there is always going to be a very strong degree of built-in human subjectivity and subconscious or conscious bias in picking the best dogs. 

Don't get me wrong, I think that that the majority of judges do a very reasonable job of picking the top "X" number of dogs, but considering the built-in human/subjective factor, I think the "placement" order for many field trials would very often change with different judges in the saddle.

With this in mind, one really has to look at all "wins" and the context of those wins in evaluating the best dogs. For example, would you prefer a dog with one 1st place "win" earned in front of _friendly_ judges or another dog with three, 2nd "placements", awarded by _unfriendly_ judges?

I feel so strongly about this that I think the national and state-level dog of the year awards should lower the points awarded for 1st placements in favor of the total placement count (while still taking into account the total dogs beaten).

To recap: In the context of human athletes, using the term "win" for a placement is normally inappropriate. In the context of canine athletes, using the term "win" for a placement can often be entirely appropriate.


----------



## Steelheadfred

Balls and strikes are subjective too.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Duece22

FindTheBird said:


> With the vast majority of human (and a few canine) sports, I strongly agree with those who say that calling a "placement" a "win" is charitable to the extreme.
> 
> With dogs however, things are significantly different because there is always going to be a very strong degree of built-in human subjectivity and subconscious or conscious bias in picking the best dogs.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I think that that the majority of judges do a very reasonable job of picking the top "X" number of dogs, but considering the built-in human/subjective factor, I think the "placement" order for many field trials would very often change with different judges in the saddle.
> 
> With this in mind, one really has to look at all "wins" and the context of those wins in evaluating the best dogs. For example, would you prefer a dog with one 1st place "win" earned in front of _friendly_ judges or another dog with three, 2nd "placements", awarded by _unfriendly_ judges?
> 
> I feel so strongly about this that I think the national and state-level dog of the year awards should lower the points awarded for 1st placements in favor of the total placement count (while still taking into account the total dogs beaten).
> 
> To recap: In the context of human athletes, using the term "win" for a placement is normally inappropriate. In the context of canine athletes, using the term "win" for a placement can often be entirely appropriate.


If this were the case why not throw second and third out the window and award three dogs as winners? 

Probably because winning, 1st, winner, is a singular position at the top, as in the best. 

In the case of the judges subjectivity you can find that in multiple human athletics that are judged as well (diving, gymnastics, ect). And is something that comes with the territory of bringing a dog to the line. 

How come they don't call the top three dogs in a spaniel trial winners? Or the national retriever championship? 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Duece22

Bobby said:


> You should just jump back in the river and hook another boot


I took your advice this afternoon. . Couldn't even find a boot today. Just a little skipper. 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## BIGSP

Steelheadfred said:


> Balls and strikes are subjective too.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


So are boxing matches that are judged and I've never heard of even a split decision loser being called a winner. 

Mike by your definition, the winner aka 1st place should have an asterisk next to them as well.


----------



## Worm Dunker

BIGSP the phrase meat dog really this is the The field bred english setter room. Setters aren't MEAT DOGS. They have been selectily breed from generations of field trial setters so their way past that. You need to go to the spanel, duck dogs,and due all dogs for meat dogs. If hunting is just about meat to you sell your dog and buy chicken!


----------



## BIGSP

Worm Dunker said:


> BIGSP the phrase meat dog really this is the The field bred english setter room. Setters aren't MEAT DOGS. They have been selectily breed from generations of field trial setters so their way past that. You need to go to the spanel, duck dogs,and due all dogs for meat dogs. If hunting is just about meat to you sell your dog and buy chicken!


Terry I was just jerking your chain. Lot's of people claim to have great dogs. If you bring your dog to the line and it wins or takes runner up at the Grand National I would be more than comfortable calling those 2 dogs the best grouse dogs in the country.

FWIW, I'm sure there are a few great grouse meat dogs that come from setter coverdog breedings and I like grouse more than chicken so, I'll keep with my skinhead pointers.


----------



## Glenmorangie

Worm Dunker said:


> BIGSP the phrase meat dog really this is the The field bred english setter room. Setters aren't MEAT DOGS. They have been selectily breed from generations of field trial setters so their way past that. You need to go to the spanel, duck dogs,and due all dogs for meat dogs. If hunting is just about meat to you sell your dog and buy chicken!


I run field bred English setters and my empty freezers have nothing to do with lack of trying. Mostly due to piss poor shooting, still learning to find the best covers because all too often:


----------



## N M Mechanical

BIGSP said:


> Terry I was just jerking your chain. Lot's of people claim to have great dogs. If you bring your dog to the line and it wins or takes runner up at the Grand National I would be more than comfortable calling those 2 dogs the best grouse dogs in the country.
> 
> FWIW, I'm sure there are a few great grouse meat dogs that come from setter coverdog breedings and I like grouse more than chicken so, I'll keep with my skinhead pointers.


Run germans and labs and you will never need to buy chicken again. Just saying
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## [email protected]

The venue also makes a pretty significant difference, specifically championships. You could essentially be 1st place in a 60 dog trial, have adequate shooting dog work, but not meet a championship standard, or you could be 2nd place in a 6 dog trial and put down a championship performance. Championships have a championship standard, which again is subjective, but you could run 60 dogs in one and not name a winner if no performance was put down, where as a 60 dog shooting dog stake just needs the best 3 dogs that day with broke work to place. You could also refer to the "winners" as 1-3, or the "winner" as 1st place. Again in the case of a championship, the runner-up still put down a championship caliber performance, and could have been named champion that day if the "champion" had not been there (I know its still second but in many cases as findthebird stated it could be 1a and 1b since they both met the performance the judges deemed championship worthy, in other cases there could be a bit of seperation). However in a weekend trial, 2nd place was the second best dog they had, sorta the same thing, but the standards are quite a bit different.


----------



## Milo

Here's a couply field bred setters that I worked yesterday.


----------



## Steelheadfred

I respect tradition and what works for any venue, all I also sent a Facebook message to Tiger Woods and let him know Jack finished second 19 X in majors, so good luck Tiger getting to 37.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Steelheadfred said:


> I respect tradition and what works for any venue, all I also sent a Facebook message to Tiger Woods and let him know Jack finished second 19 X in majors, so good luck Tiger getting to 37.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


It's called judging not score keeping, you cannot compare the two. 
If Ben Hogan hit every fairway, green in regulation, and two putted his way around to a even par round followed by Tiger Woods who hits 6 fairways, scrambles his way to par on many holes, throws in some sand saves, and makes two bombs one for eagle and shoots 3 under par Tiger wins based on score but if they were being _judged_ Hogan would get the nod from many.


----------



## Steelheadfred




----------



## Mike McDonald

Two thoughts this morning. 
#1 Clearly this board needs an acknowledged linguist. Thankfully, Bobby has assumed the position of Grammar police and none of us need to worry about the placement of commas or the conjugation of verbs ever again. I'd like to do this job because as all you know I think I know everything. However, I really don't at the end of the day I'm a science/math guy, so it shouldn't be me. Maybe we need a poll or some nominations and a vote and problems like this wouldn't haunt us. 

#2 Milo, If my dad had caught me with my gun pointing down as is the cased in the second picture he would have kicked my ass!!!

mac


----------



## Jay Johnson

Worm Dunker said:


> BIGSP the phrase meat dog really this is the The field bred english setter room. Setters aren't MEAT DOGS. They have been selectily breed from generations of field trial setters so their way past that. You need to go to the spanel, duck dogs,and due all dogs for meat dogs. If hunting is just about meat to you sell your dog and buy chicken!


My setters are meat dogs.


----------



## Glenmorangie

Mike McDonald said:


> Two thoughts this morning.
> #1 Clearly this board needs an acknowledged linguist. Thankfully, Bobby has assumed the position of Grammar police and none of us need to worry about the placement of commas or the conjugation of verbs ever again. I'd like to do this job because as all you know I think I know everything. However, I really don't at the end of the day I'm a science/math guy, so it shouldn't be me. Maybe we need a poll or some nominations and a vote and problems like this wouldn't haunt us.
> 
> #2 Milo, If my dad had caught me with my gun pointing down as is the cased in the second picture he would have kicked my ass!!!
> 
> mac



I don't know about an acknowledged linguist, but in my younger day I fancied myself a rather cunning linguist. However, I might be past my prime.

I'm damned sure not impressed with the prose of many a poster here on M-S. Full time job and I think that should be the job of the moderators.


----------



## Mike McDonald

Glenmorangie, I like the way you think, but I'm having trouble spelling Glenmorangie without a reference. Would it be alright if I referred to you as Glen as in Glen-morangie or Angie as Glenmor- Angie. mac


----------



## Glenmorangie

Mike McDonald said:


> Glenmorangie, I like the way you think, but I'm having trouble spelling Glenmorangie without a reference. Would it be alright if I referred to you as Glen as in Glen-morangie or Angie as Glenmor- Angie. mac



Sir, I think you're going to have to suck it up and just learn how to spell it correctly. You see, quality single malt whisky just shouldn't be bastardized. A drop of water is acceptable; which I can allow a Mr. Glenmorangie in this case. An ice cube or two is pushing the limits but acceptable in many circles. Therefore, I can make an exception for you and only you and can perhaps allow a "Glen-more" used as a term of endearment from time to time.

See, if I drank Cutty Sark or some other such blend I would open myself up for any name you saw fit. But I'm sure you understand from whence I came.

I think I'll work on an avatar next.


----------



## Bobby

[email protected] said:


> The venue also makes a pretty significant difference, specifically championships. You could essentially be 1st place in a 60 dog trial, have adequate shooting dog work, but not meet a championship standard, or you could be 2nd place in a 6 dog trial and put down a championship performance. Championships have a championship standard, which again is subjective, but you could run 60 dogs in one and not name a winner if no performance was put down, where as a 60 dog shooting dog stake just needs the best 3 dogs that day with broke work to place. You could also refer to the "winners" as 1-3, or the "winner" as 1st place. Again in the case of a championship, the runner-up still put down a championship caliber performance, and could have been named champion that day if the "champion" had not been there (I know its still second but in many cases as findthebird stated it could be 1a and 1b since they both met the performance the judges deemed championship worthy, in other cases there could be a bit of seperation). However in a weekend trial, 2nd place was the second best dog they had, sorta the same thing, but the standards are quite a bit different.


I follow Jonathon's ideas, I doubt a non-field trialer does.



Steelheadfred said:


> I respect tradition and what works for any venue, all I also sent a Facebook message to Tiger Woods and let him know Jack finished second 19 X in majors, so good luck Tiger getting to 37.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Tiger Woods will never be Jack Nicklaus, regardless of the tournaments he wins. NEVER



2ESRGR8 said:


> It's called judging not score keeping, you cannot compare the two.
> If Ben Hogan hit every fairway, green in regulation, and two putted his way around to a even par round followed by Tiger Woods who hits 6 fairways, scrambles his way to par on many holes, throws in some sand saves, and makes two bombs one for eagle and shoots 3 under par Tiger wins based on score but if they were being _judged_ Hogan would get the nod from many.


Ben Hogan pars and Arnold Palmer pars as I listen to Arnie announce at his own tournament. I don't like Ricky Fowler's hats, I like Ricky Fowler. And now Arnie is kissing Kate Upton. 



Mike McDonald said:


> ............at the end of the day I'm a science/math guy,
> mac


So am I.




Jay Johnson said:


> My setters are meat dogs.


And I bet they are good.



Glenmorangie said:


> I don't know about an acknowledged linguist, but in my younger day I fancied myself a rather cunning linguist. However, I might be past my prime.
> 
> I'm damned sure not impressed with the prose of many a poster here on M-S. Full time job and I think that should be the job of the moderators.


What really matters; did the fairer sex think the same?


----------



## Glenmorangie

Bobby said:


> What really matters; did the fairer sex think the same?


That's a damned good point you make. 

When I first started out I had several unproductives; ordered up and was quickly out of contention. I never qualified for the grand, but I did go to a few invitationals. Based on this thread I can't say that I was ever called a champion. RU Ch. most likely. But to be honest I'm not sure if that was a first, second or third. Back in the day the points were poker straight 12:00 tail. In later years I got more flagging, 9:00 tail and quite a few pump handle tails. I don't think that is gonna win any ribbons.


----------



## Duece22

Glenmorangie said:


> That's a damned good point you make.
> 
> When I first started out I had several unproductives; ordered up and was quickly out of contention. I never qualified for the grand, but I did go to a few invitationals. Based on this thread I can't say that I was ever called a champion. RU Ch. most likely. But to be honest I'm not sure if that was a first, second or third. Back in the day the points were poker straight 12:00 tail. In later years I got more flagging, 9:00 tail and quite a few pump handle tails. I don't think that is gonna win any ribbons.


Was the way you were scored subjective based on the judge? 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Glenmorangie

Duece22 said:


> Was the way you were scored subjective based on the judge?
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


You bet your sweet bippy it was subjective; every single time. And remember, sometimes you score sometimes you don't. Like I said, unproductives will get you dropped in a New York minute. For example, if you've got one that won't bust the bush you can kiss that one goodbye. Think of Gladwin. Not all courses are the same. The have one out there called heart attack hill, I think? If you're not up to the task you'd better stay away from her. Same with judges. Yes it's subjective. I may think I had one hell of a run; only to find out later they never asked me back.


----------



## kek25

Steelheadfred said:


> Talladega Nights - Piss Excellence - YouTube


 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A0-u85aAYg"]Talladega Nights - Prayer to Baby Jesus - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Bobby

Single Malt, I like the way you're rollin'. Very creative.


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## FindTheBird

Bobby said:


> I follow Jonathon's ideas, I doubt a non-field trialer does.


 Absolutely


----------



## Worm Dunker

Well I've had a very very bad day. So I'm going to take another Vicidi and call it a nite. No sence pissin off more people because I hurt bad.

Waite Mr. Johnson I'm sorry your setters are meat dogs. I hunted over setters for years, I hunted over setters that din't mind well, some that didn't even hunt well but even them weren't meat dogs. Maybe Bigsp can recomend you someplace to buy chicken.


----------



## BIGSP

Worm Dunker said:


> Well I've had a very very bad day. So I'm going to take another Vicidi and call it a nite. No sence pissin off more people because I hurt bad.
> 
> Waite Mr. Johnson I'm sorry your setters are meat dogs. I hunted over setters for years, I hunted over setters that din't mind well, some that didn't even hunt well but even them weren't meat dogs. Maybe Bigsp can recomend you someplace to buy chicken.


I bet my pointer had more grouse killed over her last tear than all your setters combined for the last few years. Can't remember the last time I bought chicken. How about you Terry


----------



## 2ESRGR8

bigsp said:


> i bet my pointer had more grouse killed over her last tear than all your setters combined for the last few years. Can't remember the last time i bought chicken. How about you terry


boom!


----------



## Glenmorangie

BIGSP said:


> I bet my pointer had more grouse killed over her last tear than all your setters combined for the last few years. Can't remember the last time I bought chicken. How about you Terry


http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=nyA_G75btvw&desktop_uri=/watch?v=nyA_G75btvw


This weren't no chikin' being pointed:


----------



## Bobby

Worm Dunker said:


> Well I've had a very very bad day. So I'm going to take another Vicidi and call it a nite. No sence pissin off more people because I hurt bad.
> 
> Waite Mr. Johnson I'm sorry your setters are meat dogs. I hunted over setters for years, I hunted over setters that din't mind well, some that didn't even hunt well but even them weren't meat dogs. Maybe Bigsp can recomend you someplace to buy chicken.


Terry, you should have stopped at that 1st paragraph.


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## kellyM87

I think I'd define a meat dog as a dog who up to a certain point manners don't matter. A "if it flys it dies" mentality. For ex: I'm getting a new vehicle here soon, and as an already financially strapped college kid my trialing may be limited. However I plan to keep my broke dog broke. No birds shot over idiocy. My Llewellin is if its in gun range then it's gonna get shot at.


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## Glenmorangie

kellyM87 said:


> My Llewellin is if its in gun range then it's gonna get shot at.


Mam, PLEASE don't shoot your Llewellin if it gets in gun range. Some are just naturally close workers. :lol:


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## Dave Medema

Why is there an assumption that meat dogs aren't broke and that their owners kill anything in the air?

Signed,
coverdog bred meat dog owner.


----------



## kellyM87

Dave Medema said:


> Why is there an assumption that meat dogs aren't broke and that their owners kill anything in the air?
> 
> Signed,
> coverdog bred meat dog owner.


"Meat dog" is not an official term. It is not in the dictionary. There is no definition of it. (except from those who make their own up.) It is a subjective term for those who decide to use it. Therefore it can mean whatever the person who wants to use it wants it to mean. You can't chastise someone for using it differently then you do. I said, and I quote "for me". Id be lying if we didn't shoot at unpointed grouse over my llewellin. She is my meat dog. My trial dog I don't shoot at anything that flies in gun range, because I want him to handle them right. He is NOT my meat dog. Even if I did stop trialing him I doubt I would "if it flies it dies" over him.

P.S you dont want to argue with me. I've been grumpy lately. I've had a bad month


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## Glenmorangie

Dave Medema said:


> Why is there an assumption that meat dogs aren't broke and that their owners kill anything in the air?
> 
> Signed,
> coverdog bred meat dog owner.


Sadly, it's because many people justify their unbroke (lack of training) dogs as meat dogs VS. doing the work to get them broke. Additionally, they put the bird in the bag (shot) ahead of the restraint required to only shoot properly handled birds for the dogs best intetests. 

I would venture to say 80% of the comments you read on here where someone said their dog "pointed" such and such wasn't really a TRUE STAUNCH POINT. Videos get posted all the time bragging on "points" where the dog goes on to take steps, move with the handler or run up the bird as the hunter gets close to flushing it. Usually followed up by a plethora of comments on what a nice "point" that was. That works for a lot of folks and to them I say God bless you and that's fine. But, there are those who call a point a point only when the dog won't move AT ALL while the handler kicks, pushes, prods, snaps twigs, shakes limbs etc...to produce the flush. That's what I like, but it takes effort to get there and to each his own.

Edit...I'm speaking generally, overall. Not in reference to any one person or post above.


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## Steelheadfred

Kelly,

Again, why can't you have a hunting dog that is not staunch broke bird finder?

Just cause a dog is not run in Gladwin and receive some exposure does not mean there is not lots of really good Setters that do nothing but sleep on a couch and point bird after bird after bird with manners and style.


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## 2ESRGR8

N M Mechanical said:


> I did not know you where suppose to get out of the truck


Doesn;t sound like ewe need two north of Clair.


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## Glenmorangie

If you think this whole thread has been confusing about champion, RU-Ch. 1st., 2nd., 3rd., AND IT HAS BEEN.....THINK AGAIN. Nice hooters. I'd hate to be the judge at a wet T-shirt contest.


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## FindTheBird

Worm Dunker said:


> ...Mike from where I stood you may have been robbed. Lady looked to me as a stop to flush. I could see if she took a step...


I had just glanced down at the trail and when I looked up and saw her, the bird was about 4 feet above her head and she was just stopping, so you could technically say the dog and bird were in motion at the same time albeit for only a fraction of a second. At that point she stopped and stood with no prompting just like she was supposed to, but the one judge obviously saw something he didn't like so what can you do?

Good to hear Hunter ran himself a nice race and thanks for the pictures especially the last one!)


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## N M Mechanical

2ESRGR8 said:


> Doesn;t sound like ewe need two north of Clair.


Fancy upland hunting for me is when we buy bottled beer:evilsmile


----------



## Glenmorangie

Found this and thought this might be interesting for the setter thread.


Shadow Oak Bo ~ Meditations on a Pedigree

Nineteen Seventy (Johnny Crockett) to Twenty Thirteen (Shadow Oak Bo), thats forty-three years! Before that, twenty-four years, back to Nineteen Forty-Six and Mississippi Zev; before that, back seven years to Nineteen Thirty-Nine and Sports Peerless Pride; before that, back nine years to Nineteen Thirty and Feagans Mohawk Pal, who won also in Nineteen Twenty-Eight and Nineteen Twenty-Six.

But starting at the beginning, in Eighteen-Ninety Six, the first twelve were setters, until Nineteen-Nine when Manitoba Rap became the first pointer winner. Another seven years until John Proctor became only the second pointer winner in Nineteen Sixteen. But that opened the pointer floodgate, and pointer domination of the National Bird Dog Championship, the World Series &#9472; Super Bowl &#9472; NBA Championship &#9472; Indy 500 of the bird-dog sport, ensued.

So it has been forty-three years since a setter has won the National at the Ames Plantation in Grand Junction, Tennessee. More than half a human lifetime. Some thought setter fans would never see another setter National Champion.

Pedigree CH Shadow Oak Bo

Why so seldom? Because pointers are easier and quicker to train to the harsh and peculiar requirements of this extreme sport. Or stated another way, because it generally takes longer for a setter to round into form, and a setter is more likely to suffer a setback in the process, and so fewer and fewer patrons and handlers choose the longhair as a candidate. Economics and impatience.

Yet in one demanding category of pointing-dog competitions, setters have continued to dominate &#9472; in ruffed grouse and woodcock trials. And in horseback shooting-dog competitions, setters have competed and won their share and sometimes more. Moreover, in hunting fields across the continent, setters have been the favorite of many; save in the Deep South where short hair naturally favors pointers.

Especially for the shoe-leather bird hunter, the heart of the bird dog sport, the setter has been and likely will always be the favorite, for one reason, personality. A setter loves a hunter, becomes his best friend, sometimes only friend.

For the die-hard setter fan, and there are many among us despite the forty-three years, Shadow Oak Bos pedigree merits careful study and contemplation. It tells many stories of great dogs, loyal owners, and dedicated trainer-handlers, professional and amateur.

Here are a few snippets of those stories, taken from the memory bank of one who has bred and hunted setters fifty years uninterrupted, and been owned by a setter best friend in each of those decades.

Shadow Oak Bo represents largely rested blood  that is, his close-up ancestors are, with a few exceptions, not major winners, if winners at all. His sire, Shak Ti, named for the Star Wars character Shaak Ti, the Compassionate Jedi, won the Alabama Open Shooting Dog Championship in 1999 and the Region Three Amateur Walking Shooting Dog Championship in 2002 and had twelve other placements. His dam, Rays Sundrop Jill, had no placements, but produced six winners. She goes back to foundation setters in the Grouse Ridge, Smith-Ray, Sunrise and Mosley lines, though the close up dogs, top and bottom, were not significant winners or producers.

Shak Tis ancestors, top and bottom, go back to Smith-Rays great Pinnacle (by (Im Oscar-Amber), Hall of Famer Grouse Ridge Will, Mr. Motion, and Long Gone Stokley (by Long Gone Sam).

We all know and appreciate the Smith-Ray setters, solid multiple champions which won and produced and carried on, the lifeline of the hunting-setter breed. And we should know too of the special females owned by others they went to for outcross magic. (If Shadow Oak Bos pedigree tells us nothing else, it is that it takes many great setters from disparate lines to produce a lighting in a bottle setter National Champion).

The key outcross females in the Smith-Ray lineup were Petes White Star, by Flaming Star, and her daughter Riva Ridge, by Grouse Ridge Will, both owned by long-time setter breeder D. Dana White, an Alabama (later Florida) school teacher who also bred Hall-of-Famer Ch. Mr. Thor. Mr. White was already close to eighty when I met him and struck up a long lasting correspondence. I had the pleasure of calling to tell him in consecutive years that Cash Masters DD and Barnum, two pups he raised from Petes White Star and Riva Ridge, had won the United States Quail Shooting Dog Futurity for the Smith-Rays. Cash Masters DD produced Hall-of-Famer Ch. The Performer when mated with Ch. Pinnacle.

Mr. White then lived at Homestead, Florida, where he daily ran his setters in orange groves. I could tell from his letters that dementia was taking its toll on the old man. Then one day he called me in tears to report his beloved Petes White Star had succumbed to a heat stroke when shed gotten away from him and couldnt find water. Not long after, his wife called to say hed died from a blow to the head, struck by a passer by hed gotten into an argument with, all sadly the product of his dementia.

The survival of the setter as a competitive working dog can be traced through a handful of dedicated people who have bred the best to the best through the last century. Their names include among others Duffield, Bobbitt, Smith and Ray, Flanagan, ONeale, Robertson, Smith (Herman and Collier), Birdeshaw, Farrow, Mauck, Murray and McConnell.

While only two champions (Shak Ti and A Tarheel Sunrise) appear in the nearest three generations of Bos ancestors, five Hall-of-Famers appear in the next two generations. Most striking is that only three dogs, male or female, appear more than once in the five generation pedigree, and these in the earliest two. Im Oscar, Brannigan and Amos Mosley appear twice, each mated with two different females. It would be hard to produce another five-generation setter or pointer pedigree with so little line breeding, especially up close. I leave it to the readers contemplation what that tells us.

Much luck goes into producing every champion bird dog, and especially so every National Champion. Bos luck to fall into the hands of the talented developer Buddy Smith of Collierville, Tennessee, was crucial. Buddy has played a key early role for many a great one. And luck too to be discovered by Robin and Hunter Gates and their long-time patron Butch Houston and his partner Dr. John Dorminy, to give Bo the major circuit opportunity. Setter fans everywhere are the beneficiaries of this luck. Lets all hope and pray Bo stays healthy and potent a long time.

Tom Word


----------



## Scott Berg

Terry,

Was this last weekend. What grounds?



Worm Dunker said:


> Enough politics lets get back to setters
> 
> This is Wild Cat(on right)GVSD Open Walking dog puppy winner. It's out of Craig Merlington Ch. Kate who took third place in open walking shooting dog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]
> 
> Brace two Mike(on right) with the only pointer there and a Pennstar breed setter Hi Andy Star
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]


----------



## Bobby

Glenmorangie said:


> ....You bet your sweet bippy ....


I'll mix one of my homemade Old Fashioned's the next time we meet for the poster who can tell me where this quote originated. Single malt, you are dating your old ass.



Glenmorangie said:


> http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=nyA_G75btvw&desktop_uri=/watch?v=nyA_G75btvw
> 
> 
> This weren't no chikin' being pointed:


Single malt, how did you get that dog to stand still long enough to photograph?



kellyM87 said:


> I think I'd define a meat dog as a dog who up to a certain point manners don't matter. A "if it flys it dies" mentality. For ex: I'm getting a new vehicle here soon, and as an already financially strapped college kid my trialing may be limited. However I plan to keep my broke dog broke. No birds shot over idiocy. My Llewellin is if its in gun range then it's gonna get shot at.


I would state that the saying, "..if it flies it dies.." is a meat hunter, not a meat dog. I understood a meat dog to be livestock raised in Korea.



Glenmorangie said:


> Edit...I'm speaking generally, overall. Not in reference to any one person or post above.


You've taken your diversity training to heart. Nice job. phfff You don't really mean it, not really.



Mike McDonald said:


> I've been waiting for a pissin match. Wasn't sure whether it would be meat vs trail or whether labs should be allowed to point. mac


Labs don't point. They hesitate..........



Glenmorangie said:


> Lesbians, thespians, acknowledged linguist, cunning linguist, high tails, low tails....we have it all here now. *I'd hate to be known as an antagonist and starter of pissin matches. * To get us back on track I offer:
> 
> BTW...Have you checked your appointment book for 3:15 today?


I call bull****.......




kellyM87 said:


> That's pretty much what I was trying to verbalize and failed to do. The vultures here will pick apart poor wording. Hell hath no fury like a MS member scorned


Grammar, syntax, spelling and pointing labs will raise the fury.



Worm Dunker said:


> 40 years ago drive down any gravel road north of Clare you didn't need dogs all you needed was a case of beer and a box of shells we got a limmit every time we went. .


I've tried it, I haven't shot my limit yet. Do you get out of the truck or just roll the window down.



Steelheadfred said:


> I was never so honored when a Setter owner described one of my dogs as a "Meat dog par excellence."


That is a compliment, especially for a duct dawg.



aimus1 said:


> So you HAVE sinned in the eyes of the grouse gods. Yet you've grown out of those old sinful ways. *Do you worm dunk for trout at all? * And if so, do you practice catch and release? I don't know many worm dunkers that practice catch and release and I'm wondering if your sportsman purism extends into your fishing habits or if it's just a grouse thing? I'm an avid flyfisherman and I used to look down the end of my nose at worm dunkers...AKA Meat Fishermen. But I too have grown out of my sinful & resentful ways and came to accept that some folks just dont think about everything in the world exactly the way I do. And that doesn't necessarily make them wrong. It just makes them different.
> I have setters too. Both staunch and broke. They're my meat dogs. Will I shoot grouse off a branch? Only if the dogs aren't looking.


I worm dunk, I love it, I call 'em pork chops. I also throw spinners (the fishing lures) and I tie flies and toss them too. Throw scorn on me, I don't care. I enjoy it. 




Mike McDonald said:


> Wait a second. People actually shoot them flying. What the ___. mac


They get anxious and shoot before they land. Some people are too high strung for this sport.



Worm Dunker said:


> Back in the late 60's I took a class at LCC on fly tying and fresh water entomology. The instructer was saying to catch a trout on the Pine you had to use this fly and so on as he went down the list of streams. He was the most aragunt man I ever meet. When he got all done with his speach I just simply said when your done I'll come right in behind you with a can of worms and out fish you. Well he called me a mother F#[email protected]*!g worm dunker I just bought a new salmon boat and that is the rest of story. Oh ya I flunked the class and never did take up fly fishing.


That is the best story you have told in quite some time. Thank you



Glenmorangie said:


> Nice hooters. *I'd hate to be the judge at a wet T-shirt contest*.


Really? I call bull**** again.




FindTheBird said:


> I had just glanced down at the trail and when I looked up and saw her, the bird was about 4 feet above her head and she was just stopping, so you could technically say the dog and bird were in motion at the same time albeit for only a fraction of a second. At that point she stopped and stood with no prompting just like she was supposed to, but the one judge obviously saw something he didn't like so what can you do?


We should start discussing the technical aspects of stop to flush. That should run a few pages.



N M Mechanical said:


> Fancy upland hunting for me is when we buy bottled beer:evilsmile


That's funny


----------



## Worm Dunker

Yes Scott this was yesterday at Ionia Mi. Ionia is state owned and managed as a field trial ground but is open to all hunting even goose. They changed the puppy coarse so dogs and horses didn't have to run on the snow and ice. Wind chill was single digit temps.


----------



## Dave Medema

Back to meat dogs. I"m running a dog with nearly 20 different champions within 5 generations including many HOF dogs. He was bred to trial. I don't have the interest nor time to trial. I hunt birds with a staunch and broke dog that hunts meat. We seem to do well enough whether you judge by dog standards or birds on a tailgate.


----------



## Scott Berg

Worm Dunker said:


> Yes Scott this was yesterday at Ionia Mi. Ionia is state owned and managed as a field trial ground but is open to all hunting even goose. They changed the puppy coarse so dogs and horses didn't have to run on the snow and ice. Wind chill was single digit temps.


Terry,

I recieved an email from Greg Hilla that the pup (now derby) we sold him won the Shooting Dog Stake and was 2nd in the Derby but I thought it was at Highland. Am I confused as usual?

SRB


----------



## Bobby

Scott Berg said:


> Terry,
> 
> I recieved an email from Greg Hilla that the pup (now derby) we sold him won the Shooting Dog Stake and was 2nd in the Derby but I thought it was at Highland. Am I confused as usual?
> 
> SRB


Scott, Greg and Cash had similar placements, the previous weekend, at Highland, then repeated the feat, the placements were different, this past weekend at Ionia.

Highland

Open Shooting Dog 

1st Call Me Kate - Craig Merlington 
2nd Bad River Frankie - Tom Vanecek 
3rd One Shot Remington - Greg Hilla 

Open Derby 

1st One Shot Remington - Greg Hilla 
2nd Nobody's Shadow - Wheelock/D'Hulster 
3rd Call Me Maggie - Craig Merlington 

Ionia

Walking Shooting Dog: 
1st-Remington--Hilla 
2nd-Rusty-------Vanecek 
3rd-Kate-------Merlington 

Derby 
1st-Maggie---Merlington 
2nd-Remington--Hilla 
3rd- Moduc ----Cerofolini 

They won 4 times!!!! :evil:


----------



## Bobby

Fritz is banned?

Him and Single Malt got the spaniel thread shut down and now Fred is banned, I think.

Wow, some one had a bad day on Monday.


----------



## k9wernet

Bobby said:


> Fritz is banned?
> 
> Him and Single Malt got the spaniel thread shut down and now Fred is banned, I think.
> 
> Wow, some one had a bad day on Monday.


Give it a couple weeks and he'll be back as SteelheadFritz or RainbowFred and the mods will never notice.


----------



## Glenmorangie

Bobby said:


> Fritz is banned?
> 
> Him and Single Malt got the spaniel thread shut down and now Fred is banned, I think.
> 
> Wow, some one had a bad day on Monday.



MISTAKEN IDENTITY







A man went into a bar. The bartender said to the guy, "What can I get you?" 

"Make it a single malt whisky," said the man who promptly throws it down in one gulp. 

"That will be three dollars," said the bartender. 

"Says you!" said the man. "You offered to get me something. I thought you were paying." 

"Get out," said the bartender. "You're banned. I don't need your business." 

Anyway, two years later, the same man went back to the same bar with the same bartender. 

The bartender looked at him and said, "You're the jerk who tried to con a drink out of me, aren't you?" 

"Excuse me, but I have no idea what you are talking about," said the customer. "I've never been to this bar before in my life!" 

"Sorry. My mistake," said the bartender. "You must have a double." 

"Hey thanks, dude!" said the customer. "Make it a single malt whisky."


----------



## FindTheBird

Bobby said:


> We should start discussing the technical aspects of stop to flush. That should run a few pages.


Here's my understanding of some of the common STF situations:

--The dog shows definite evidence that he knows a bird is around, then bumps the bird, but stops almost instantly, with or without handler prompting
----A breach of bird manners (the dog didn't point at first scent and then went even further, pushing the bird to flush)

--The dog shows no evidence that there is a bird nearby, a bird flushes and the dog chases a short distance then stops, with or without handler prompting.
----Still a breach of bird manners (the dog chased)

--The dog shows no evidence that there is a bird nearby, the dog physically sees the bird in the air and the dog stops without prompting. Handler approaches and shoots with the dog remaining broke. 
----This is a quality stop to flush, the dog should be credited.

--Same as above but the handler whoas the dog at the flush. 
----Neutral judgement situation--no pickup, but no credit either (the judges don't know if the dog would have stopped on his own.)

--The bird flushes without being seen by the dog at all, and the dog showed no evidence of getting "birdy" beforehand.
----In some cases this might be a tough one for the judges to call (what did the dog see?). If the dog shows no evidence of moving toward the bird in flight and the bird didn't appear to cross the dog's forward line of sight, the situation is completely neutral. If there's any evidence the dog could see the bird in flight (whether he acknowledges the bird or not) it's a breach of bird manners.


----------



## Glenmorangie

This is the damnedest guy I've ever seen in all my borne days. I wonder if Al Stewart can do for grouse what this guy can do with quail. Why setter thread? It will be clear half way through the video.

[ame="http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GyLe-JpEHpI"]Sounds a Quail Makes - Texas A&M AgriLife Extension Service - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Jim58

:lol::lol::lol: :tdo12:


----------



## Worm Dunker

Fred's gone? With my health getting better I has hoping to settle our bet trial dog verses duck dog this fall. And now I read East Bay Lodge is closing that been a part of the cover dog trailing as far back as I can remember. This is a bad day.


----------



## BIGSP

Worm Dunker said:


> Fred's gone? With my health getting better I has hoping to settle our bet trial dog verses duck dog this fall. And now I read East Bay Lodge is closing that been a part of the cover dog trailing as far back as I can remember. This is a bad day.


I think he was just put into a timeout. He'll be back. Just like herpies. Lol


----------



## Birdsonthebrain

Worm Dunker said:


> Back in the late 60's I took a class at LCC on fly tying and fresh water entomology. The instructer was saying to catch a trout on the Pine you had to use this fly and so on as he went down the list of streams. He was the most aragunt man I ever meet. When he got all done with his speach I just simply said when your done I'll come right in behind you with a can of worms and out fish you. Well he called me a mother F#[email protected]*!g worm dunker I just bought a new salmon boat and that is the rest of story. Oh ya I flunked the class and never did take up fly fishing.


 
Good Story! I think you should start your own thread called Worm Dunker's Story Corner or The Life and times of a Worm Dunker


----------



## Worm Dunker

I hope Fred does or is allowed to come back. I can't remember anything we agreed on but I still respected him. Like me right or wrong he would stand up for what he believed in. In our polictly correct(I can't even spell it)world now thats says alot.


Birdsonthebrain nobody would believe it if a book was written about my life. Here is another quicky. A guy from the same class ended up being called Spawn Bag Richard. He shot me point blank while meat hunting with one of my shorthairs. Yes this is a true story! and he flunk the class also with Dr. Jonos he got his name for giving free gynecology test!


----------



## FindTheBird

Worm Dunker said:


> I hope Fred does or is allowed to come back. I can't remember anything we agreed on but I still respected him. Like me right or wrong he would stand up for what he believed in. In our polictly correct(I can't even spell it)world now thats says alot.
> 
> 
> Birdsonthebrain nobody would believe it if a book was written about my life. Here is another quicky. A guy from the same class ended up being called Spawn Bag Richard. He shot me point blank while meat hunting with one of my shorthairs. Yes this is a true story! and he flunk the class also with Dr. Jonos he got his name for giving free gynecology test!


I never know what I'm going to be reading when I open one your posts Terry:lol:


----------



## N M Mechanical

Terry I would like to hear more about the cutting a tree down or your boat stories. Those right there could carry this thread 5 pages
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## N M Mechanical

Or about you owning GSP's
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bobby

Worm Dunker said:


> I hope Fred does or is allowed to come back. I can't remember anything we agreed on but I still respected him. Like me right or wrong he would stand up for what he believed in. In our polictly correct(I can't even spell it)world now thats says alot.
> 
> 
> Birdsonthebrain nobody would believe it if a book was written about my life. Here is another quicky. A guy from the same class ended up being called Spawn Bag Richard. He shot me point blank while meat hunting with one of my shorthairs. Yes this is a true story! and he flunk the class also with Dr. Jonos he got his name for giving free gynecology test!


Fish Head was only banned for a week and he is only banned from the Upland area. Go figure. 


The free test issue above makes me think of line: I'm not a gynocologist but I'd be happy to take a look. 













FindTheBird said:


> I never know what I'm going to be reading when I open one your posts Terry:lol:


Every time.....................


----------



## midwestfisherman

BIGSP said:


> I think he was just put into a timeout. He'll be back. Just like herpies. Lol


Wow....:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Worm Dunker

findthebird I never know what I'm going to say till I open my mouth then when I try to post it here I can't spell it anyway.

N M Mechanical you must be a new member I said for years I've own plenty of shortshairs and not one of them was worth a(you get the idea). I'm suprised I didn't get the boot during the shorttail wars.

Back to the setter form. I went to the camera shop and explained I can't get a woodcock picture with this new camera. So he set it up and I got close! 








[/IMG]

All this cold and strong N. N.W. we still have plenty of woodcock to run dogs on. Hunter moved 10 one may have been a reflush we had some inapro(I can't spell it)didn't stay steady and even chased. I lite him up the energizer bunny. I hit the button he keep goig so I keep turning up the power.








[/IMG]








[/IMG]


----------



## Scott Berg

Bobby said:


> Scott, Greg and Cash had similar placements, the previous weekend, at Highland, then repeated the feat, the placements were different, this past weekend at Ionia.
> 
> They won 4 times!!!! :evil:


Thanks Bobby. I have to live vicariously through those that trial our dogs now that I trail so little. He is also the last of our Jack offspring so I keep an eys on him. You guys get started earlier than we do. The snow holds on some years here and this year is one of those years. Ben and I host a gun dog stake north of the TC in mid-April and we were worried for a while we might have to cancel it. 

Michigan is a great place for a walking trialer with Gladwin, Highland, and Iona. Plus, you seem to have really good participation, not just in terms of entries, but people that share the work of putting on trials. :coolgleam

SRB


----------



## milmo1

N M Mechanical said:


> Terry I would like to hear more about the cutting a tree down or your boat stories. Those right there could carry this thread 5 pages
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Amen. I still chuckle when I remember the story of the boat on the trailer that chased you down the driveway. Damn, that's a funny image.:lol:


----------



## milmo1

So maybe we have a strategy to overtake these spaniel guys...

We keep throwing a sacrificial lamb into their thread to shut them down. Then they have to reorganize and start a new thread. Over time they will tire and give in, then we overtake and claim victory.:idea:


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Worm Dunker said:


> N M Mechanical you must be a new member I said for years I've own plenty of shortshairs and not one of them was worth a(you get the idea).


Brilliant!


----------



## N M Mechanical

milmo1 said:


> So maybe we have a strategy to overtake these spaniel guys...
> 
> We keep throwing a sacrificial lamb into their thread to shut them down. Then they have to reorganize and start a new thread. Over time they will tire and give in, then we overtake and claim victory.:idea:


This one will get derailed at some point Range or Planted vs Wild bird training. Just give it time
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Duece22

N M Mechanical said:


> This one will get derailed at some point Range or Planted vs Wild bird training. Just give it time
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Take your bad attitude and German dogs somewhere else Nick. We are talking about Field Bred English Shedders here. 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Glenmorangie

N M Mechanical said:


> This one will get derailed at some point Range or Planted vs Wild bird training. Just give it time
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Shouldn't come off the tracks. It's easy:

Start with planted then stick with wild bird training when they are ready.

Range: beyond gun range, staunch dogs that hold, let them run the way the Good Lord made them.

Done deal.


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Duece22 said:


> Take your bad attitude and German quill pig dogs somewhere else Nick. We are talking about Field Bred English Setters here, fine upland gentleman's shooting dogs.


Agreed.


----------



## Worm Dunker

I've only been running my young dog to get him in shape for the Spring Amature Classic. So old Jake decided to get even for being left home all of the time. Some of you here have seen the things I've made to give the winners of fall Championships. Mark Forman and Tony Bly got the ones for the Woodcock Ch. Vance Butler and somebody from Pa. got the ones for the Lake State and Rich Hollister got one for the Frutchie. I had my best idea ever for the Invatational. So I been making one for the Forman Brothers as a test so the one for the Invatational would perfect. Jake chewed the grouse tails of the plaque and even got in the box and chewed up my back uppes the plaque was sitting on.

Due you know why the Grouse is called the gentleman bird? They don't come down out of the trees early so if you got hammered the night before you don't need to get up early to hunt them.


----------



## TimBuckTwo

Worm Dunker said:


> Due you know why the Grouse is called the gentleman bird? They don't come down out of the trees early so if you got hammered the night before you don't need to get up early to hunt them.


That's good stuff right there. :lol:


----------



## k9wernet

I'm looking for a petite and athletic whip of a English Setter who always works within gun range.

I've narrowed my search to Ryman or Lewellin... which line of English setter is best?

I haven't completely ruled out the possibility of a silver pointing lab either.

Could someone please compare and contrast all possible benefits and drawbacks of the above-mentioned dogs? Which will produce the most birds for the gun? Which will look the most stylish doing it?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Duece22

k9wernet said:


> I'm looking for a petite and athletic whip of a English Setter who always works within gun range.
> 
> I've narrowed my search to Ryman or Lewellin... which line of English setter is best?
> 
> I haven't completely ruled out the possibility of a silver pointing lab either.
> 
> Could someone please compare and contrast all possible benefits and drawbacks of the above-mentioned dogs? Which will produce the most birds for the gun? Which will look the most stylish doing it?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Silver lab 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## FieldWalker

k9wernet said:


> I'm looking for a petite and athletic whip of a English Setter who always works within gun range.
> 
> I've narrowed my search to Ryman or Lewellin... which line of English setter is best?
> 
> I haven't completely ruled out the possibility of a silver pointing lab either.
> 
> Could someone please compare and contrast all possible benefits and drawbacks of the above-mentioned dogs? Which will produce the most birds for the gun? Which will look the most stylish doing it?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


If you're looking for a real bird dog... I'd highly suggest joining the tickle fight over in the spaniel II corner.


----------



## Duece22

FieldWalker said:


> If you're looking for a real bird dog... I'd highly suggest joining the tickle fight over in the spaniel II corner.


Tickle fight I like that 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## N M Mechanical

Setter VS pointing lab?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Eliminate the Lab genes from your decision, no need to start with such a large handicap.
Stick to the God given born with traits of the superior grouse dogs.
The choice between Llew or Ryman type is up to you.


----------



## TimBuckTwo

k9wernet said:


> I'm looking for a petite and athletic whip of a English Setter who always works within gun range.
> 
> I've narrowed my search to Ryman or Lewellin... which line of English setter is best?
> 
> I haven't completely ruled out the possibility of a silver pointing lab either.
> 
> Could someone please compare and contrast all possible benefits and drawbacks of the above-mentioned dogs? Which will produce the most birds for the gun? Which will look the most stylish doing it?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Would this be dog number 3 or 4? I remember you saying that you have a GSP and a pointer if I remember correctly. Still haven't found exactly what your looking for in the breeds you own, or are you looking for something different? 

I want another dog but I figure I will give it at least another year to get some training under my belt first so I will be more prepared.


----------



## Scott Berg

k9wernet said:


> I'm looking for a petite and athletic whip of a English Setter who always works within gun range.
> 
> I've narrowed my search to Ryman or Lewellin... which line of English setter is best?
> 
> I haven't completely ruled out the possibility of a silver pointing lab either.
> 
> Could someone please compare and contrast all possible benefits and drawbacks of the above-mentioned dogs? Which will produce the most birds for the gun? Which will look the most stylish doing it?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Are you trying to get this thread closed? :evil:

SRB


----------



## TimBuckTwo

Scott Berg said:


> Are you trying to get this thread closed? :evil:
> 
> SRB


 
Looks like I fell for it, hook, line, and sinker.


----------



## k9wernet

To those actually entertaining the ridiculous notion that I would ever own a setter... I already have a pretty good collection of burrs. I keep it in a shoe box with some old coins and stamps.


----------



## northwinsetter

k9wernet said:


> To those actually entertaining the ridiculous notion that I would ever own a setter... I already have a pretty good collection of burrs. I keep it in a shoe box with some old coins and stamps.


Speaking of burrs. That reminds me that I've been meaning to post for some time that if you have a long haired dog this is by far the best tool for removing burrs. It does quick work at getting out even the clumps of burrs but be forewarned, keep your thumb on the guard when using, the blades are razor sharp!

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Safari-De-Matting-Comb-for-Dogs/dp/B0002ARR2W"]Amazon.com: Safari De-Matting Comb for Dogs: Pet [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@31FzcjLfHsL[/ame]


----------



## midwestfisherman

k9wernet said:


> I'm looking for a petite and athletic whip of a English Setter who always works within gun range.
> 
> I've narrowed my search to Ryman or Lewellin... which line of English setter is best?
> 
> I haven't completely ruled out the possibility of a silver pointing lab either.
> 
> Could someone please compare and contrast all possible benefits and drawbacks of the above-mentioned dogs? Which will produce the most birds for the gun? Which will look the most stylish doing it?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Uh Oh! K9 is trolling! :16suspect


----------



## kek25

Darn, Terry. Wish I'd known of this last week. I just threw out a few boxes of grouse tails I've been collecting over the past couple seasons. Had about a thousand of them. Gotta love those *Field Bred* English Setters.


----------



## kek25

I agree Roger. And thank you again for selling me yours a while back. It's really come in handy.




northwinsetter said:


> Speaking of burrs. That reminds me that I've been meaning to post for some time that if you have a long haired dog this is by far the best tool for removing burrs. It does quick work at getting out even the clumps of burrs but be forewarned, keep your thumb on the guard when using, the blades are razor sharp!
> 
> Amazon.com: Safari De-Matting Comb for Dogs: Pet Supplies


----------



## BIGSP

kek25 said:


> Darn, Terry. Wish I'd known of this last week. I just threw out a few boxes of grouse tails I've been collecting over the past couple seasons. Had about a thousand of them. Gotta love those *Field Bred* English Setters.


You must have friends with shorthairs and pointers. Lol


----------



## Lucky Dog

2ESRGR8 said:


> Eliminate the Lab genes from your decision, no need to start with such a large handicap.
> Stick to the God given born with traits of the superior grouse dogs.
> The choice between Llew or Ryman type is up to you.



Ha.

Says the guy with 2/3rds of his string sporting butch cuts!

I think you are no longer a setter guy, you are a pointer guy that owns a setter.:evil:


----------



## N M Mechanical

BIGSP said:


> You must have friends with shorthairs and pointers. Lol


Or he collected all the tail fans from all the setter owners from the past 10 years:evilsmile


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Lucky Dog said:


> Ha.
> 
> Says the guy with 2/3rds of his string sporting butch cuts!
> 
> I think you are no longer a setter guy, you are a pointer guy that owns a setter.:evil:


no sir you are mistaken. My latest charge is a setter, at least that is what my wifey told me to get when I left the house that day.


----------



## 2ESRGR8

N M Mechanical said:


> Or he collected all the tail fans from all the setter owners on this thread last year. '


Ha! Good one.


----------



## N M Mechanical

N M Mechanical said:


> Or he collected all the tail fans from all the setter owners from the past 10 years:evilsmile


 
No I had it right


----------



## kek25

Can't believe you guys don't believe me. That's only 500 birds a season. :lol:


----------



## k9wernet

kek25 said:


> Can't believe you guys don't believe me. That's only 500 birds a season. :lol:


Maybe a discussion of possession limits would get this thread fired up. :16suspect


----------



## Lucky Dog

2ESRGR8 said:


> no sir you are mistaken. My latest charge is a setter, at least that is what my wifey told me to get when I left the house that day.


Ha ha, looks like it is time to post on her FB page and let her know the difference between setta, pointa, and blue tic.:lol:


----------



## TrekJeff

k9wernet said:


> Surprisingly little... Every GSP I've every known was able to "top off the tank" on the dead things they drag out of the woods and other dogs' **it.



WOW...that was good...lol


----------



## Dave Medema

Worm Dunker said:


> Bobby look at what I drive, the dogs I own, and even the toys I still have. Even at my age I can still make the wife smile at the end of the night! How due you think I have affored this for years. When I got married 44+ years ago I only had to be the wifes boy toy. The last Suburban even used was 25,000.00 I had to step up to man whore!!!



Whenever I read "the wife", it gives me an impression. 

BTW - is a "man whore" similar to a "man bitch"?


----------



## N M Mechanical

Dave Medema said:


> Whenever I read "the wife", it gives me an impression.
> 
> BTW - is a "man whore" similar to a "man bitch"?


Dave you are both ......and I am jelous
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## midwestfisherman

Bobby said:


> I'm trying to square the picture I have created after I read the hi-lited quote.
> 
> Any help out there?


:SHOCKED:


----------



## Bobby

Worm Dunker said:


> .....I only had to be the wifes boy toy. QUOTE]
> 
> WWBTD
> 
> 
> Grammar lesson for the end of Lent:
> The above 'wifes" is possesive, the proper punctuation; wife's boy toy


----------



## Little Slugger

Worm Dunker said:


> Bobby look at what I drive, the dogs I own, and even the toys I still have. Even at my age I can still make the wife smile at the end of the night! How due you think I have affored this for years. When I got married 44+ years ago I only had to be the wifes boy toy. The last Suburban even used was 25,000.00 I had to step up to man whore!!!


:Modified_ rotest_e more



Glenmorangie said:


> Having never utilized the services of a man whore, I'm afraid I can't be of help.
> 
> I would like to compliment the gentleman and thank him for sharing all these pictures of his beautiful setters. He can't be all bad. I'd like to offer my pm box where I can discretely share the benefits of experiences in my younger days of woman whore utilization.


we our taking a fork in the road I don't want to go down.


----------



## Glenmorangie

Little Slugger said:


> :Modified_ rotest_e more
> 
> 
> 
> we our taking a fork in the road I don't want to go down.



Reading that with a fresh set of eyes, I tend to agree with you. Poorly worded. My bad.

I'll try to get us back on track.

It's field trial season. Here is one of mine at THE BIG DANCE.

[ame]http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab279/cashabc123/Misc/IMG_0528.mp4[/ame]


----------



## Walkinwoodsman

Bobby said:


> I'll mix one of my homemade Old Fashioned's the next time we meet for the poster who can tell me where this quote originated. Single malt, you are dating your old ass.
> 
> I think the show was called Laughin or something like that. It was a weekly sketch comedy show with Goldie Hawn when she was just starting out.


----------



## milmo1

Walkinwoodsman said:


> Bobby said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll mix one of my homemade Old Fashioned's the next time we meet for the poster who can tell me where this quote originated. Single malt, you are dating your old ass.
> 
> I think the show was called Laughin or something like that. It was a weekly sketch comedy show with Goldie Hawn when she was just starting out.
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is older than that:
> 
> "Bet your sweet Bippy" comes from the childrens books written by Elizabeth Downing Barnitz in the 1940's "Bippy" and "Bippy Rides Again". A Bippy is an elf.
> 
> Of course that is from the internet, so who knows if it dates back further.
Click to expand...


----------



## Worm Dunker

COMPUTERS SUCK I've lost this post three times so far.

I talked to the Formans today Hunter has 10 half brothers and sisters that are at least 1XCh and some are multiple Ch. that are his age. 
Midwestfisherman's old dog Billie is one of them. Hunters light has finnally turned on. He handles like a dream and thanks to the woodcock being stacked up he has almost 50 birds with only three bumped. The Formans will not be at Gladwin this spring. So after I run hunter in the Amature Classic I've e-mail a Mi.pro to see if he will handle Hunter he rest of the spring. I can't hear a bell more than 50 yards. We'll see how it turns out for fall. I have run dogs five days this week that's the most I've ran since my accident in 94. So this fall after the Championships I will settle the bet with Steelheadfread. TRIAL DOG (hopefully new Ch.) verses DUCK DOG. Below pictures from today. I've left the ugliest point ever picture out.It's posted on the woodcock post.








[/IMG]









[/IMG]








[/IMG]


----------



## Glenmorangie

That Hunter dog of yours is a fine looking specimen. Thanks for all the pictures.


----------



## FindTheBird

Worm Dunker said:


> COMPUTERS SUCK I've lost this post three times so far.
> 
> I talked to the Formans today Hunter has 10 half brothers and sisters that are at least 1XCh and some are multiple Ch. that are his age.
> Midwestfisherman's old dog Billie is one of them. Hunters light has finnally turned on. He handles like a dream and thanks to the woodcock being stacked up he has almost 50 birds with only three bumped. The Formans will not be at Gladwin this spring. So after I run hunter in the Amature Classic I've e-mail a Mi.pro to see if he will handle Hunter he rest of the spring. I can't hear a bell more than 50 yards. We'll see how it turns out for fall. I have run dogs five days this week that's the most I've ran since my accident in 94. So this fall after the Championships I will settle the bet with Steelheadfread. TRIAL DOG (hopefully new Ch.) verses DUCK DOG. Below pictures from today. I've left the ugliest point ever picture out.It's posted on the woodcock post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]


Terry, there was a bird about 4 feet inside the brush at the right side of the picture above that Lady stuck on the way back. 
I just think it's amazing that a young skinhead was able to stick a bird who was bypassed by such a nice, field-bred setter


----------



## Worm Dunker

Mike believe it or not I didn't let him hit that hole I lined him out along the black top till he hit that outside edge. He ran that to the tree line then went north. That's were we meet Lady. That hole is where Jake put up the whooping crane. I see rock is entered in the Dewey Mullins Classic. What and where is it. I'm sure it's not the same Dewey Mullins that was friends with Harold and sold my son his treeing Fiest? Lady pointed the first woodcock of the year out there it wasn't my big running TRIAL BREED setter that found it that day!! I'll be out there agin tomarrow hopefully I'll beat the rain. I couldn't believe how dry it was last time. The leaves were crunchy and made noise like the fall.


----------



## FindTheBird

Worm Dunker said:


> Mike believe it or not I didn't let him hit that hole I lined him out along the black top till he hit that outside edge. He ran that to the tree line then went north. That's were we meet Lady. That hole is where Jake put up the whooping crane. I see rock is entered in the Dewey Mullins Classic. What and where is it. I'm sure it's not the same Dewey Mullins that was friends with Harold and sold my son his treeing Fiest? Lady pointed the first woodcock of the year out there it wasn't my big running TRIAL BREED setter that found it that day!! I'll be out there agin tomarrow hopefully I'll beat the rain. I couldn't believe how dry it was last time. The leaves were crunchy and made noise like the fall.


Terry, that classic is being run in KY. I think Dewey Mullins is a hard-core Southern shooting dog guy, but I'm not entirely sure.

Lady's tail is looking like crap after a great training run up North--we may miss the Amateur next weekend. Good luck up there if we don't make it!


----------



## midwestfisherman

FindTheBird said:


> Terry, there was a bird about 4 feet inside the brush at the right side of the picture above that Lady stuck on the way back.
> I just think it's amazing that a young skinhead was able to stick a bird who was bypassed by such a nice, field-bred setter


Are you guys training at the rest stop again? I thought they ran you guys off!


----------



## Worm Dunker

They ran us out of there!!! Now were by all the crazy state workers. Hunter had a close incounter with a shuddle bus the other day thank god for the hot button on the Alpha.Parking is becoming a premeion this guy was parked in Mikes spot when I came out.








[/IMG]

From where I was when I seen him I thought he had a pointer and a hound.

I called Dave Fletcher tonight to see about a up coming trial. One of his Britt got out of the kennel and was killed by a car.


----------



## FindTheBird

midwestfisherman said:


> Are you guys training at the rest stop again? I thought they ran you guys off!


The new state cops out there are all good sailors!



Worm Dunker said:


> From where I was when I seen him I thought he had a pointer and a hound.
> 
> I called Dave Fletcher tonight to see about a up coming trial. One of his Britt got out of the kennel and was killed by a car.


Terry, there's a guy who regularly runs out there with a setter and a small hound of some kind. Nice guy, pretty sure he belongs to the Lansing RGS chapter.

Sorry to hear that about Dave Fletcher's dog; he seemed to really like him.


----------



## midwestfisherman

Time to spice things up. You guys are getting boring! ne_eye:


----------



## midwestfisherman




----------



## Scott Berg

How did you guys get all those photos of my old girlfriends? :evilsmile

SRB


----------



## midwestfisherman

Scott Berg said:


> How did you guys get all those photos of my old girlfriends? :evilsmile
> 
> SRB


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## midwestfisherman

Hopefully we get some pictures from this weekend's trial at Gladwin!


----------



## fishinlk

> Hopefully we get some pictures from this weekend's trial at Gladwin!


Of cowgirls like those?!?!?!? Most everyone I've seen the trials was clad in canvas and would likely not look good out of it. :lol:

Looking forward to some fresh dog pics though.


----------



## HankVIII

Here is a picture of my dogs on a woodcock this weekend. Vizsla hidden on the right.


----------



## Mike McDonald

Is it just me or do others think that it must be really challenging to raise and train spaniels. Think about it, less than 10 people that have spaniels actively participate in the spaniel thread, but it seems to require a page or two of postings daily to sort out the problems they must have. I feel lucky. I just put my setters down and go kill birds. I'm to lazy to own a spaniel. mac


----------



## 2ESRGR8

mike mcdonald said:


> i just put my setters down and go kill birds. Mac


boom!


----------



## gundogguy

Mike McDonald said:


> _* I'm to lazy to own a spaniel. mac*_


:lol::lol::lol: Well like the good book says "and truth will set you free"


----------



## Bobby

Mike McDonald said:


> Is it just me or do others think that it must be really challenging to raise and train spaniels. Think about it, less than 10 people that have spaniels actively participate in the spaniel thread, but it seems to require a page or two of postings daily to sort out the problems they must have. I feel lucky. I just put my setters down and go kill birds. I'm to lazy to own a spaniel. mac


Wow, you actually read that spaniel thread? Why don't don't you go train dogs or clean the basement or sort your sock drawer, but read the spaniel thread? Maybe you need to open a second clinic.

By the way, did you ever have a class at MSU with Prof Dade?


----------



## Steelheadfred

Mac did you sell your second office too?

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Worm Dunker

Steelheadfred welcome back. I hope this fall after the last Gladwin trial we can finnally settle our bet. Trail dog verses duck dog. Looking forward to this fall.


----------



## Basil Hayden's

Hi everybody. I'm new to the forum and a big fan of the English Setter. Looks like I came to the right place.


----------



## Mike McDonald

Bobby said:


> Wow, you actually read that spaniel thread? Why don't don't you go train dogs or clean the basement or sort your sock drawer, but read the spaniel thread? Maybe you need to open a second clinic.
> 
> By the way, did you ever have a class at MSU with Prof Dade?


Haven"t you been curious? Dogs going to McGrail on Saturday, don't want to make his job harder by helping. Spring is steelheadd time not dog time. basement clean, barn clean, socks arranged, have opened 4 clinics tired of that. rivers blown out can't fish so what was left? spaniel thread. Didn't know Dade probably much older than I am.


----------



## Bobby

Basil Hayden's said:


> Hi everybody. I'm new to the forum and a big fan of the English Setter. Looks like I came to the right place.


Hah!!!

The bet is on.


----------



## k9wernet

Basil Hayden's said:


> Hi everybody. I'm new to the forum and a big fan of the English Setter. Looks like I came to the right place.


Huh... I thought this was the place to stare at boobies...


----------



## kek25

Basil Hayden's said:


> Hi everybody. I'm new to the forum and a big fan of the English Setter. Looks like I came to the right place.


Get back to us in a couple weeks on that. You may just end up trading your setter in for a spaniel. :lol:

Key to entry == must post photos of your setter(s).


----------



## Basil Hayden's

This should do it.

[ame="http://s1364.photobucket.com/user/Photosofstuff135/media/Misc/image_zps7652fbed.jpg.html"]image_zps7652fbed.jpg Photo by Photosofstuff135 | Photobucket[/ame]


----------



## kellyM87

That is a deceased Tekoa Mountain Dog. Tekoa Jet Stream. Nice Try.


----------



## Basil Hayden's

kellyM87 said:


> That is a deceased Tekoa Mountain Dog. Tekoa Jet Stream. Nice Try.


Sorry, I'm new to the forum and was just trying to fit in and be one of the guys posting Setters AND BOOBIES. 
Here's my story.
I recently found a nicely marked orange /white setter lost at the Gladwin FT area. While there I spoke with a boorish guy named Bobby who recommended an avid grouse hunting vet who hunts with several english setters for me to use. I had planned to field trial this dog in coverdog trials but the vet, incompetent as he was, got confused and docked his tail. Also, he neutered him and then substituted a set of prosthetic testicles called neuticles so I wouldn't be a laughing stock among the FT guys with "the dog with no balls". He did do a nice job, no scars or anything. I now have a real nice Brittany which I can use as a hunting dog and shoot to retrieve trial dog.

The problem I'm now having is that the dog has become an incessant scrotum licker and he's now humping his blanket all the time. Any thoughts?
Also I read a lot about the coverdog retrievers on here. Have any of you CDR guys had any personal issues with excessive humping or licking? Do you breed much? Thanks for the help. Sorry for such a long post.


----------



## TrekJeff




----------



## Bobby

Basil Hayden's said:


> ........ While there I spoke with a boorish guy named Bobby who recommended an avid grouse hunting vet who hunts with several english setters for me to use. ........


...said the kettle to the pot.


boorish;
ill-mannered and coarse and contemptible in behavior or appearance; "was boorish and insensitive"; "the loutish manners...


----------



## N M Mechanical

Merimac said:


>


_Posted via Mobile Device_ Is it false pointing?


----------



## 2ESRGR8

Where should Nick send his deposits?:lol:


----------



## Merimac

N M Mechanical said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_ Is it false pointing?


Nope you can see the bottom and he lets me know when there are fish. He gets antsy. Waits for me to hook the fish. He will smell it and I let it go. That is his favorite part. He watches them swim away.


----------



## kek25

Classic Ben! That's one nice ice shanty from the looks of the floor and frame finished holes.



Merimac said:


>


----------



## kek25

Bobby said:


> I have no photos to show what you ask. I added 2 Big Jon riggers, the most expensive kind, rod holders on the sides and on the rear deck, that's about it. It's tight for 2 people, no way to fish more than that confortably. Of course I now want a bigger boat, wanted one the 2nd time I went fishing. But then, I never wanted one in the first place. The motor is too small........but, it all works fine for us. . .


Thanks for the info. I went all through that -- boat's too big; boat's too small; get an aluminum boat; get a fiberglass boat; max the motor; motor's too small; etc. Bottom line -- all that matters is that it works for you.

Does Diane have an unmarried sister?:lol::lol:


----------



## N M Mechanical

kek25 said:


> Classic Ben! That's one nice ice shanty from the looks of the floor and frame finished holes.


Is the shanty a trailer


----------



## 2ESRGR8

He points Walleye. Pony up mechanical boy.


----------



## N M Mechanical

2ESRGR8 said:


> He points Walleye. Pony up mechanical boy.


I need to see point not a sit you know it is anout the tail set I need to look at if I am going to be a setter owner
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kek25

Steady to catch and release. What more could you ask for?



Merimac said:


> Nope you can see the bottom and he lets me know when there are fish. He gets antsy. Waits for me to hook the fish. He will smell it and I let it go. That is his favorite part. He watches them swim away.


----------



## Merimac

Let me see what I can dig up.


----------



## HankVIII

Dogs checking out the new aviary.


----------



## Worm Dunker

These pictures were taken at the Brittney trial yesterday at Gladwin. This was the last trial till summer.








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## Worm Dunker

The winners Kate 2 Gary 3 Traveler








[/IMG]

I may have heard it wrong but one of these dogs will be this year Mi Cover dog of the year.

Puppy winners Kat 2Lucy 3 Star








[/IMG]


----------



## Bobby

You have the winner and runner up


----------



## kek25

Hope it's Ken Moss's dog. Ken is a true ambassador of the sport.


----------



## Dave Medema

Where are th Brits from th Brit trial? 

Go setters!!!


----------



## Steelheadfred

Dave Medema said:


> Where are th Brits from th Brit trial?
> 
> Go setters!!!


Everyone knows a Britt vs. Setter head to head a setter will win every time. They're just smarter.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Scott Berg

kek25 said:


> Hope it's Ken Moss's dog. Ken is a true ambassador of the sport.


Ken stopped by and visited the kennel a couple years ago. We bred to Trav a few months later and kept these two pups until the final cuts of the year.

Samson









Lilly


----------



## Bobby

I don't think there was a single brit running in the Brit trial. The brit guys just don't run in the woods very often, at least in our coverdog events.

I haven't tallied the final results but Travler is solid in 1st (Ken Moss) and Gary (Rich Hollister) was in 2nd.
The 1st place dog at the Brit (above) also won the Great Lakes Regional US Complete CH that ran this weekend at Highland, Call Me Kate with Craig Merlington.


----------



## Scott Berg

Training photos from yesterday. The O&W male is almost two. The tri-color female is 9 months.


----------



## BIGSP

Mike McDonald said:


> Dave, I shave mine right down. Not because they need it, but if I ever got a chance to hunt with Brent or Nick I want to be accepted. mac


You're a lot smarter than fritz gives you credit for.


----------



## N M Mechanical

Mac you are not the normal setter owner I would hunt with you and your dogs
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mike McDonald

Nick, although I may be pitiful I'm still proud enough that I don't want to be pitied. Dave, unfortunately Fritz probably has me pegged. Mac


----------



## Bobby

Basil Hayden's said:


> Ok, we might just be able to get this thing rolling in a civil manner. Until recently I've had mostly orange and white setters. Other than a few coverdog breedings like Pennstar, for example, I seem to notice more orange and white setters south of the mason Dixon line and more black / tri's nort of the line. Likewise more o/w in non coverdog lines; and *more liver/w*, b/w and tri's in coverdog lines. Any correlation speculation?


Basil, I think you're full of dog poop. As I sit here and think thru all the Michigan coverdogs I have seen in person I can only see one liver-white dog and I would almost guarantee you have never seen that same dog (though it lives right across the bay from you)



Worm Dunker said:


> I'm with Bobby *I like orange setters best*. I own all three Jake on right has lost most of the tri with old age.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]


Terry.....................as he shows a photo of two black ticked setters....



Dave Medema said:


> Do your dogs really get that furry to require a full shave?


Yes, I prefer it that way. I also cut my hair short, I some times wear a flat top.



N M Mechanical said:


> Mac you are not normal _Posted via Mobile Device_


Fixed it :evil:


----------



## Worm Dunker

Thanks northwinsetter yes it was the test done as a combo with heart worm. I finnally got a hold of the Forman Brothers they are my go to guys for anything setter related. Scott told me calm down nothing to worry about he says in Pa. 90% of all dogs test positive for Lymes. Just throw him in the truck and bring him to DuBois for the last trial till summer at Gladwin. I wish I had the money they like big fast running dogs. Hunter has been there twice and placed both times.

Might as well throw in a setter picture. Hunter after a disasterus month at Gladwin.








[/IMG]


----------



## Mike McDonald

The combo lymes/heart worm test is famous for false positive lymes reactions. Not that you have it but if you did many if not most vets treat it with doxycycline. Bobby, it sounds like you're one heck of a groomer. I know you're approaching retirement, any interest in a second career??? Mac


----------



## Bobby

Mike McDonald said:


> The combo lymes/heart worm test is famous for false positive lymes reactions. Not that you have it but if you did many if not most vets treat it with doxycycline. Bobby, it sounds like you're one heck of a groomer. I know you're approaching retirement, any interest in a second career??? Mac


All that Mac wrote is the same as my vet communicates and some of my dogs have tested just as Terry's without actually having Lyme.

Yes Mac, this 2nd work cycle has been discussed. I'm actually not very good but getting better. I would have no concern just doing a setter shave but all those little cutesy dogs and old women wouldn't work well.


----------



## Bobby

You don't like the orange and white ones you seem to like left eye patches best.

Terry has a mess of good looking dogs.


----------



## Jay Johnson

Currently my field bred setters have switched gears and are now serving as field bred trout dogs.

To everything there is a season and for me tis the season to be fishing not messing with bird dogs.


----------



## Basil Hayden's

Bobby said:


> Basil, I think you're full of dog poop. As I sit here and think thru all the Michigan coverdogs I have seen in person I can only see one liver-white dog and I would almost guarantee you have never seen that same dog (though it lives right across the bay from you)


Number one: we both know I'm normally full of dog poop; that goes without saying. . However, I kid you not the first time I ever saw a liver / white setter it was a beautiful picture on this forum of l/w and B/w sitting under a pair of harvested grouse hanging on a tree. The picture is so stunning to me I copied it and have it in my album. The first l/w setter I ever put my hands on is a full brother to my newest, which had l/w in both litters. All coverdogs. 

I wasn't looking to ruffle anyone's feathers. It is just my observation that orange and white setters, of which I've had the vast majority of experience, seem to be more prevalent in the southern parts of the U.S and blacks, tri's and liver SEEM to be more prevalent, to me, in the northern regions. I was wondering if there were any correlations...that's pretty much it!

On another note...good luck with your second career...what was it? Shaving old women? Please wear gloves with that. I hear wax works too. Do they need an AARP card or is it 65 and older?


----------



## Basil Hayden's

jay johnson said:


> currently my field bred setters have switched gears and are now serving as field bred trout dogs.
> 
> To everything there is a season and for me tis the season to be fishing not messing with bird dogs.


Blasphemy!!


----------



## mudbat2128

Since there's a shortage of liver and white's I'll put this one up its been posted a few times though.


----------



## 2ESRGR8

I like Oster A5 clippers, they work so well it makes the Settahs look like Pointers.


----------



## Worm Dunker

I take my dogs to a groomer with my luck the wife doesn't allow me to use sharp objects around her babies. My vet said shaving dogs is worst for fleas. They can move around better with out long hair?


----------



## Worm Dunker

The setter color I like the least all white.








[/IMG]


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## midwestfisherman

My chestnut colored setter (when he was a pup). Setters aren't referred to as liver colored.


----------



## Worm Dunker

Hunter got his buzz cut. To help him through the tramma of looking like a pointer the wife got him a new toy.








[/IMG]


----------



## HankVIII

Some training at an undisclosed non-DNR approved location


----------



## kellyM87

Dexter on some throw down birds. Not a big fan of training on throw down birds too often now, but both me and him were getting bored of not being in the woods.


----------



## Steelheadfred

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=465043


Lots of openings in this trial.


----------



## Jim58

HankVIII said:


>


Nice, but can it get back in the boat?


----------



## HankVIII

Ha, boat? It takes 30min of warmup in the shallows before she'll swim. It better be a gradual beach and hot out too.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## Jim58

HankVIII said:


> Ha, boat? It takes 30min of warmup in the shallows before she'll swim. It better be a gradual beach and hot out too.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-D710 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Too much class to splash! 

Sent from my XT907 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## midwestfisherman

hankviii said:


> ha, boat? It takes 30min of warmup in the shallows before she'll swim. It better be a gradual beach and hot out too.
> 
> Sent from my sph-d710 using ohub campfire mobile app


lol!


----------



## Worm Dunker

Just to keep post a live. Crazy female 92 degree she rather chase yard birds than be in aircondishning.








[/IMG]


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## Worm Dunker

Still in the basement keeping out of the heat. I was going through my pictures and found this gem.








[/IMG]

It's Hunter sharing a pen with a son of Whomblie. For you Britt guys that sneak in here it's a pup from the only non setter or pointer that won a open Champion at Gladwin as far as I know.


----------



## Worm Dunker

She'll never be a trial dog but what the heck maybe I could try run her in a grassy field RGS trial!!!!!








[/IMG]


----------



## Worm Dunker

I took Hunter out this afternoon to start the long road back to gettin him in trial shape. We found 4 woodcock one had been banded. The reason I know it came running out in front of Hunter and almost hit me in the head as it flushed. The pictures arn't very good due to heavy cover and it rained on and off so lenze was wet also.








[/IMG]


I'm hoping cover is the reason for lack of speed. This is the wors't I've seen the cover in all the years I've run there. I'll get a machete before I go back again!








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[/IMG]








[/IMG]

No 12 o'clock tail pictures here cover to heavy to get tail up! One spot I had to get down and crawl under brush just to find dog. A heavy thunder storm with lighting rolled in I was trying to get out quick got lost and made it back to car just as it really cut loose.


----------



## TrekJeff

That cool wet spring we had is a blessing and a curse, heavy plots of new growth, yet poor nesting/hatching environments. Should be an intersting season. I just hope my girl gets comfortable with the gun shot. Jury is still out on that. When working with birdsonthebrain we fired a few shots after releasing a few birds, not sure if she was running towards the truck or just chasing after the pigeon as it flew back towards the truck...so hopefully we can get her excited, pop a few blanks off and find out if she'll hunt. Bob is confident she's going to be good, so I have to run with that confidence...lol


----------



## Scott Berg

We had a high oh 70 degress yesterday. What a nice break for summer training. Here are a couple photos.

Jake @ 7 months










Susie at 5 months


----------



## TimBuckTwo

Nice photos guys, keep'em coming.


----------



## Worm Dunker

I am very heavly medicated after two really bad falls earlier today while running my gentlemen grouse dog! There is a TV commershal running that says Don't be a ___ for cable TV. Well that's what happened today to Hunter. After my last fall I finnally caught up with Hunter and he was in a stinky pond trying to catch a swiming mallard. I went to take his picture thats when I found out I lost my camera. I hooked him to the bumper and back tracked and found camera. This is what happens where your a setter duck dog. You get hooked to bumper to dry and try loose some of the smell. You go to the dollar store for cheap dog soap. and you end up with a bath in cheap soap!








[/IMG]

First fall woodcock








[/IMG]

Second fall bunny rabbit I think at least no splash no drill marks but a big hole! 








[/IMG]

I need to find another area to run Hunter. Cover so thick here he has no hair left around his eyes. Nose and tounge front legs and chest all cut from grass and mulifloria rose. Theres plenty of birds(woodcock)but cover to thick to let him really roll.


----------



## TrekJeff

Had a great day in the field thanks to Birdsonthebrain and his dogs. Did some pigeon yard work to start off the afternoon wrapped up with a beautiful scent point on a chukar (she was sight point the pigeons) Then off to the fields for a wild bird exposure.
Got a chance to see how tech stuff aids in finding your your setter that can be out of bell range in a matter of seconds, luckly he strapped her up with his Astro  ... gonna have to get one of those after saving some pennies. 
We saw birds, Bena ran over one woodcock and I think it startled her as it flushed, but for not having any wild bird exposure that I know of, she had me smiling at least most of the time. She wore her self out then Bob broke out Hutch...now that's a bird finding machine, I lost count but between Hutch and Chloe I think there were 8 woodies found/pointed.
Good day, learned what I need to work on with Bena and who knows she may be ready sometime this season. Being a rescue dog, I have no idea of what her first year was, although I think that her tendency to range out far and fast is how she wound up in Gladwin's animal shelter in December.


----------



## Birdsonthebrain

It was my pleasure Jeff. Getting to see Bena's insticts kicking in is well worth anytime spent.
The Astro is a pretty neat tool. But, it doesn's replace the need for a dog to handle....well.... I guess it can. There is plenty of time to fix that.

A few more planted birds and a steady diet of wild birds and walks in the woods and she'll make a bird dog. 




TrekJeff said:


> Had a great day in the field thanks to Birdsonthebrain and his dogs. Did some pigeon yard work to start off the afternoon wrapped up with a beautiful scent point on a chukar (she was sight point the pigeons) Then off to the fields for a wild bird exposure.
> Got a chance to see how tech stuff aids in finding your your setter that can be out of bell range in a matter of seconds, luckly he strapped her up with his Astro  ... gonna have to get one of those after saving some pennies.
> We saw birds, Bena ran over one woodcock and I think it startled her as it flushed, but for not having any wild bird exposure that I know of, she had me smiling at least most of the time. She wore her self out then Bob broke out Hutch...now that's a bird finding machine, I lost count but between Hutch and Chloe I think there were 8 woodies found/pointed.
> Good day, learned what I need to work on with Bena and who knows she may be ready sometime this season. Being a rescue dog, I have no idea of what her first year was, although I think that her tendency to range out far and fast is how she wound up in Gladwin's animal shelter in December.


----------



## Worm Dunker

Hunter and I may take a few days off from training. I'm so stove up from the falls yesterday I couldn't put socks on or tie my shoes today. Plus I fell in a wild raspberry bush and the wife is still pulling out prickers. Hunters eyes were matted shut and he's limping as bad as me!








[/IMG]

The first trial of the season starts is in less than two weeks I hope we both heal before that:lol:!


----------



## TrekJeff

Looks like his chest may have taken a beating too. Bena's was pink and irritated, but after a good lathering of aloe and then wearing a neoprene vest that night to keep her from licking it, she looks a lot better.


----------



## TimBuckTwo

TrekJeff said:


> Looks like his chest may have taken a beating too. Bena's was pink and irritated, but after a good lathering of aloe and then wearing a neoprene vest that night to keep her from licking it, she looks a lot better.


 
Do you ever hunt your dog in that vest? In snow my dog's chest gets really worn down, after a day of hunting I will have to switch to a vest of some sorts.


----------



## Worm Dunker

The last picture I posted that red on his chest is the pond scum.This is a before picture.








[/IMG]

It's his eyes that worry me the most. His left side is even worst.








[/IMG]


----------



## TrekJeff

Worm Dunker said:


> The last picture I posted that red on his chest is the pond scum.This is a before picture.


Oh I see...maybe a trip to the vet?



TimBuckTwo said:


> Do you ever hunt your dog in that vest? In snow my dog's chest gets really worn down, after a day of hunting I will have to switch to a vest of some sorts.


Just got her this past January and we are still getting her into hunting mode, she was a rescue so it's touch and go. The vest I have for her was a hand-me down and is actually a size to big for her, although if one fit better I would think it may help, but I have no idea.


----------



## FindTheBird

TrekJeff said:


> The vest I have for her was a hand-me down and is actually a size to big for her, although if one fit better I would think it may help, but I have no idea.


I used them on my dogs early-on, but stopped using them many years ago. In Michigan, I think they are generally overkill for most of our cover.


----------



## Worm Dunker

Speaking of eyes I found a picture from the spring trials you can see how intense a dog is by his eyes.








[/IMG]


----------



## kek25

I agree, Terry.




























Then there's that look on their face when they've done their job perfectly.














*DO YOU KNOW WHO THAT FIELD BRED ENGLISH SETTER IN THE SECOND PHOTO IS?*


----------



## Worm Dunker

Have you ever had that look the dog gives you after you muff a clear shot at a grouse. My very first setter gave me that look all the time. Hunter to intense he's all about finding the next bird.


The setter looks like Randy Strouse's old setter that use to win all of the RGS gun dog trials.


----------



## kek25

My setters are so use to me missing shots that I can tell by the way they act right after I take a shot whether I hit the bird or not.


You'r right, that dog in the second photo did a lot of winning, but he's not Randy's dog. In fact he's a multiple champion.


----------



## Scott Berg

kek25 said:


> My setters are so use to me missing shots that I can tell by the way they act right after I take a shot whether I hit the bird or not.
> 
> 
> You'r right, that dog in the second photo did a lot of winning, but he's not Randy's dog. In fact he's a multiple champion.


Keith is that a photo of Reroy after he retired?


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## kek25

Yes. That's Reroy, Scott. I've also got some photos of a littermate and older siblings, as well as a photo of Mr. Verle Farrow (1977 Field Trial Hall of Fame Inductee) working birds with Leroy in Virginia given to me by a good friend who was a friend of Mr. Farrow's. The "type" is very evident.


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## TrekJeff

Worm Dunker said:


> Have you ever had that look the dog gives you after you muff a clear shot at a grouse. My very first setter gave me that look all the time. Hunter to intense he's all about finding the next bird.
> 
> 
> The setter looks like Randy Strouse's old setter that use to win all of the RGS gun dog trials.



LOL...my first year hunting a preserve deserves a laugh. Dad and I participated in Tails A'Waggins Veteran hunt. Growing up and only ever hunting wild birds I had the mind set to call out "HEN" if the situation deemed so. Well the first bird that was flushed was a hen, I drew up and hollard out "HEN" and lowered my gun. As the bird flew away both the handler and the dog looked at me like WTH????? :16suspect I believe the handler's name was Mike, he explained to me that we are on a preserve and if it flies, it dies.:lol:


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## Worm Dunker

Point








[/IMG]

Relocate








[/IMG]


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## TCpat&trout

I got a chance to visit Grand Junction today and found a very staunch setter.










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## Milo

The weather cooled down this morning, I had a chance to work my pup, she's coming along well.


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## TrekJeff

I'm going to be at the DNR RAM center (Higgins Lake) the next two weekends for a non hunting type training conference and plan on taking Bena. Anyone have any experience or advice for finding some areas to let her run in the evenings? She's really starting to put things together, still a ways before gunfire is introduced, but I want to get her as much wild bird exposure as possible.

Took her out by my father's house near Leroy the other evening, I saw 4 grouse flush and actually saw her lock and point on one before she broke point and flushed it as I made my way to her Progress, not perfection for this rescue pup


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## FindTheBird

TrekJeff said:


> I'm going to be at the DNR RAM center (Higgins Lake) the next two weekends for a non hunting type training conference and plan on taking Bena. Anyone have any experience or advice for finding some areas to let her run in the evenings? She's really starting to put things together, still a ways before gunfire is introduced, but I want to get her as much wild bird exposure as possible.
> 
> Took her out by my father's house near Leroy the other evening, I saw 4 grouse flush and actually saw her lock and point on one before she broke point and flushed it as I made my way to her Progress, not perfection for this rescue pup


This is what I often start with. It's no substitute for paws/boots on the ground, but it can narrow your choices and save you time.

DNR's MIHunt App.:
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10371_14793_55471---,00.html

DNR Compartment Reviews (forest inventory maps)
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-30301_30505_54967_54969-299935--,00.html#ROS


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## kek25

I see Worm Dunker has a ringer running Hunter in the Lake States Amateur and Open. Some guy named Lareau. Not sure if a pointer guy can handle such a refined animal. Boones Farm notwithstanding, of course. :lol:

Good luck guys.


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## Worm Dunker

Mike and I train together because we live close and close to a birdie place. Mike is almost as good as a Garmin as knowing were a dog is by it's bell. When we would check he was never more than 5 feet off. I can't hear a bell more than 40 yards and that's about four running jumps for Hunter :lol: So he was kind enough to volunteer to scout for me this weekend. Lake Stakes doesn't allow trackers. This will likely be Hunter last trials so who better to help? A friend instead of some you have to pay. Mike no ringer just a friend.


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## kek25

Excuse me. A guy that can pinpoint a bell within 5 feet of the Garmin is certainly not a ringer. He's a ringmaster.

All kidding aside. Being able to hone in on the bell is the key.


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## FindTheBird

Crap, the pressure's on now! I'm going to request that he sport a LC Northwoods and that he be hacked-in to within 50 yards at all times:lol:.


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## kek25

FindTheBird said:


> Crap, the pressure's on now! I'm going to request that he sport a LC Northwoods and that he be hacked-in to within 50 yards at all times:lol:.


:lol:

This whole pointer guy helping a setter guy seems like an unholy alliance to me. 

Before you know it the pointer guys are going to want a closet in the setter room. :yikes::lol:


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## FindTheBird

kek25 said:


> :lol:
> 
> This whole pointer guy helping a setter guy seems like an unholy alliance to me.
> 
> Before you know it the pointer guys are going to want a closet in the setter room. :yikes::lol:


Keith, word of advice; metaphorically-speaking, don't give us pointer guys a closet or we'll wind-up occupying the whole damn room!:lol:

On a side note, rumor has it that Mr. Wormdunker has full access to a quantity of fine libations (not Boones) so I have a lot of motivation to ensure that Hunter maximizes his grouse contacts this weekend.


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## Worm Dunker

Mike winning high end booze and getting it are to different things. It's the Amatuer Stake where it's suppose to be at.


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## J-Lee

Good luck Terry and Mike, give em hell.


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## Sleepysetter

Scott Berg said:


> Ray,
> 
> There are plenty of Setters that will hunt very hard and be perfectly calm in the house. The very best bird dogs are composed on and off task.
> 
> 50 lbs would be an exceptionally large female within field lines. The 50 lbs plus females generally have some bench breeding, sometimes described as dual dogs. An average female from field lines is roughly 38-40 lbs.


I agree about the temperament and with setters you will almost certainly have a dog with an off switch. Size wise I think 38-40 lbs is on the small end of an average female. Most all age dogs have much bigger frames and are right around 50lbs so a dog in that weight class might be the exact opposite of show breeding. 

Generally speaking a bigger dog might not be as fancy running but they will have more endurance as a general rule. Longer strides = fewer strides per mile = more endurance. Gait has a lot to do with it too/ lots of factors but you can put a lot more muscle on a larger dog. All age pointers can be in the 60lb range. Think Usain bolt...

An example of all age females http://www.settersunlimited.com/repeat.aspx?a=9&b=82&c=6


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## Scott Berg

Sleepysetter said:


> I agree about the temperament and with setters you will almost certainly have a dog with an off switch. Size wise I think 38-40 lbs is on the small end of an average female. Most all age dogs have much bigger frames and are right around 50lbs so a dog in that weight class might be the exact opposite of show breeding.
> 
> Generally speaking a bigger dog might not be as fancy running but they will have more endurance as a general rule. Longer strides = fewer strides per mile = more endurance. Gait has a lot to do with it too/ lots of factors but you can put a lot more muscle on a larger dog. All age pointers can be in the 60lb range. Think Usain bolt...
> 
> An example of all age females http://www.settersunlimited.com/repeat.aspx?a=9&b=82&c=6


You have a point. The bigger dogs can have greater endurance. That's part of the reason that most AA guys don't trial females.The example you gave belongs to a friend of mine. She is a big dog but she is also an anomaly. More to the point, AA dogs we not reference specifically and there have been so few AA females in the past 20 years it would not even make sense to talk about female AA setters in the context of a a norm. The only three females I can even think of in the past few years are Johnny&#8217;s Jewel, Gotta Lot of Nose and Greg Sand&#8217;s dog. (there are others ) The prefix of her name is Traveler&#8217;s Prairie Sioux if I recall correctly. I saw her win the Montana Shotting Dog Championship in literally 100 degree heat. She went on to be successful as an AA dog. She was about 35Ibs. Johnny&#8217;s Jewel and Gotta Lotta nose are around 40 lbs.

Going back a few years, Ida O&#8217;Priscialla and her sister Oakhurst Ellen were successful AA dogs and I am pretty sure they qualified to go to Grand Junction. I can&#8217;t think of another female who has qualified in the past 20 years. I never saw them in person. They were between 40 & 42 based on what others told me. Murrays Glide also did well 15 years or so ago. She was 38 at most. 

The only female I can think of that is close to 50lbs is Erin&#8217;s Sky Dancer and I don&#8217;t think Sean is trialing her. I had a pup out of her 1st litter that was 37 lbs. She was also bred to Ridge Creek Cody. I train with Cody&#8217;s owner frequently and he has a female out of her that is 38ish. 

If we were to look at the dam&#8217;s of the most famous AA dogs, they are 40-42 lbs.

Hytest Skyhawk &#8211; His dam blaze is around 42lbs. Our Jack dog is a sister to Blaze and she was 42 lbs. We also own Skyhawks younger sister and she is 42 lbs.

Jettsetter &#8211; Lacy was around 40 lbs but her dam was big. I think Jim told me all of 45 lbs.

Tekoa Mountain Patriot &#8211; I don&#8217;t remember for sure but I think Brian told me she was 42 lbs.

Shadow Oak Bo - ???

T&#8217;s Gun Runner / Pace Setters Equinox / Tommy B / Mona&#8217;s delight (brothers) were out of Lookout Mona who was 40, maybe 42 lbs. Her grandmother, Mac&#8217;s Kelly Patrick was a big and a real physical specimen. She was upper 40s.

We should also be careful not to generalize. A 60 lbs dual type male and a whatever AA Champion male you want to name have little in common when it comes to physical ability. The dog below is 57lbs.


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## TrekJeff

Spent the last two weekends at Higgins Lake and had Bena up there with me all the time. Did some internet scouting using Mi-Hunt (thanks Arron) and found something good!

















She found grouse, but the aspen was so thick by the time I got to her the birds flushed before I had the camera out :lol:


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## Fireguy133

One of my favorites from last year. 


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## Fireguy133

Sawyer & Finn working together.









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## RCA DOGS

RCA DAISY ON YARD WORK

SETTER ALLEY
 
SETTER MOBIL

DAN G


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## kellyM87

Been having father, daughter, and son training days to get ready for the season and to also give bored dogs something to do on days when i couldn't get to birds... Dexter (dad)








Maddie has been doing really well and has impressed me with her drive and her intelligence. She also has the sweetest personality.... Even if she's a purse setter.... Maddie (daughter)








Chalie hasn't figured the game out yet but he's fancy, fancy, fancy...... Hopefully he gets it soon.... Charlie (son)









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## drwink

RCA DOGS said:


> RCA DAISY ON YARD WORK
> 
> SETTER ALLEY
> 
> SETTER MOBIL
> 
> DAN G


Hey Dan
I see you will be making good use of the Quail you got from me yesterday


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## Scott Berg

It finally cooled of last weekend and we had a good time working some young pups. 

Bell @ 17 weeks










Bell @ 19 weeks










Gypsy @ 15 weeks


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## kek25

Took an extra long holiday and ran dogs for 3 days straight. Found lots of woodcock to work those young dogs. Grouse were scattered with few families found.


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## milmo1

kellyM87 said:


> Maddie has been doing really well and has impressed me with her drive and her intelligence. She also has the sweetest personality.... Even if she's a purse setter.... Maddie (daughter)
> View attachment 44102


Nice looking dogs. Ok, I'll bite. What is a "purse setter"?


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## kellyM87

milmo1 said:


> Nice looking dogs. Ok, I'll bite. What is a "purse setter"?


Lol.... She's a friggin midget! Like a chihuahua I could carry her around in a purse.


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## 2ESRGR8

Kelly,
What's the early word from Tony Bly on that pup you sent to him?


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## kellyM87

2ESRGR8 said:


> Kelly,
> What's the early word from Tony Bly on that pup you sent to him?


She leaves on Weds.... She was supposed to go over a week ago, but that week they wouldn't ship because of the heat... Then I had to get her health certificate updated. Shes doing a good job here though.......Ill update after I send her and hear whats up with her.


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## [email protected]

Here's some more cpr for thread. After a busy spring and summer, the outlook is still, well, busy. Twins born at end of April along with a 3 yr old have somehow taken up a little bit of the free time, but still trying to get out when I can. 

Reese and Liam









Male Pup

















Coco this winter








Female pup








Hot pursuit








Got one








Friend Dave's dog Daisey








Friend Dave's dog Kernel


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## kek25

Great photos. Who is Daisy out of Johnathon? I wanted to go up and see Dave's 2 females run at the last trial but didn't get up there in time.



[email protected] said:


> Here's some more cpr for thread. After a busy spring and summer, the outlook is still, well, busy. Twins born at end of April along with a 3 yr old have somehow taken up a little bit of the free time, but still trying to get out when I can.
> 
> Reese and Liam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Male Pup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coco this winter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Female pup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hot pursuit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friend Dave's dog Daisey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friend Dave's dog Kernel


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## FindTheBird

Nice shots as always Johnathon! Can I presume that Kernel is out of Dave's recent litter?


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## hoosier

Lucky at 5 months old


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## Scott Berg

hoosier said:


> Lucky at 5 months old
> 
> http://youtu.be/QZsNZBqoTqI


Nice day for training yesterday. It remained overcast with a nice breeze all day. Bell is a littermate (almost a twin) to Hoosier's pup. Brandy is the other sister we kept. 

The O&W female (Jesse) is out of CH Ridge Creek Cody. We had never taken any photos of her so we got her out for a photo session yesterday. Cody, her sire, is an uncle to the sire of the other pups.

Bell




















Brandy 










Jesse


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## kek25

I like the looks of Jesse!!


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## Merimac




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## Merimac




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## Worm Dunker

Congratulation Bobby where did Maddie Mae win at Gladwin?


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## kek25

Good to see the setters back on the first page of the forum where they belong. No new news to report on this end. Looking forward to a good 2015 season. Dogs are getting up there in age but can still get it done.

Walking woodsman, the dog "Rita" in that photo is still here at the house with us. I put that post up to demonstrate that even with the right blood sometimes they don't work out as a hunter. But a more perfect pet she couldn't be. Real pleasure to have around after a hard day's work.

All nice photos of some good looking setter.

And Bobby, your "Shadows" are looking great!


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## Brian121208

Representing at the MAFTC Michigan Grouse & Woodcock Hunting Dog Clasic.


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## Walkinwoodsman

Brian121208 said:


> Representing at the MAFTC Michigan Grouse & Woodcock Hunting Dog Clasic.
> View attachment 188751


When was that?


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## Brian121208

Walkinwoodsman said:


> When was that?


Two weeks ago at Gladwin.


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## Walkinwoodsman

Brian121208 said:


> Two weeks ago at Gladwin.


Nice congratulations


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## ejellis

Brian121208 said:


> Representing at the MAFTC Michigan Grouse & Woodcock Hunting Dog Clasic.
> View attachment 188751


Brian, is that Arrow?


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## Brian121208

ejellis said:


> Brian, is that Arrow?


Yes it is Eric, same breeding as your dog. How is that litter of pups coming along?


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## ejellis

Brian121208 said:


> Yes it is Eric, same breeding as your dog. How is that litter of pups coming along?


Nice work, congrats! The litter raising went great and was a lot of fun. All the pups went to excellent bird hunting families, mostly in Michigan but I did sell one to the Ohio DNR upland bird biologist who promised to come up north to get the dog some grouse and woodcock time. I kept one female to keep the family line going (far left below) though I think that breeding will be about 4 or 5 years down the road if she stays healthy enough and proves herself in the field.


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## 2ESRGR8

ejellis said:


> View attachment 188810


I heard that pup with testicles is a prodigy...pointing sharptails, ruffed grouse, and woodcock before he was 6 months old.


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## Worm Dunker

Hunter is my fifth setter and is the first and last setter I'll give authentic Mexican food to The guacamole sauce didn't even get a chance to change color. At least he should be all flushed out and good to go hunting next week.


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## ncgreg

From this morning, cooper locked up on the king.


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## GSP Gal

Setter guys--This 3 year old male is available. Great breeding, started, and a great house dog to boot!!! PM me for details.


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## Smokey77

GSP Gal said:


> Setter guys--This 3 year old male is available. Great breeding, started, and a great house dog to boot!!! PM me for details.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 190809


I am interested in finding out more about the 3 year old setter please email me at [email protected]


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## GSP Gal

Smokey77 said:


> I am interested in finding out more about the 3 year old setter please email me at [email protected]


E-mail sent.


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## Smokey77

GSP Gal said:


> E-mail sent.


Sorry for being pain but I haven't received any email from you regarding the setter .Just to clarify my email is [email protected]


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## GSP Gal

Smokey77 said:


> Sorry for being pain but I haven't received any email from you regarding the setter .Just to clarify my email is [email protected]


I think you should have it, if not feel free to call me. 231. 920.0418


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## GSP Gal

Setter is still available; Don't miss out on a nice dog.
He is double bred 5xCH/2x RU CH/USOCH/FTHF Mr. Thor


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