# UP hunting opportunities ?



## ssrhythm (Jan 11, 2017)

Hello, I am originally from SC, I currently live in central IN, and I'm thinking about taking a job in either Ironwood or Keneewa. My family loves winter and snow, so that won't be a problem. I'm wondering about the hunting up there. I go after Whitetail hard here and in Ohio from season opener through mid November with most of my stand time being the first two weeks of November in Ohio, and then I turn my attention to ducks. I chase turkeys in the spring and do a little fishing in the spring and summer. I figure the deer hunting will be pretty good up there, but I'm sure that duck hunting will be a whole different beast with opportunities at divers on superior. Not looking for any specifics on places and not cyber scouting...just want to know if the duck hunting is pretty good there, what species are targeted besides the typical puddlers migrating through, etc. What other big game do y'all hunt up there, and is there any decent turkey hunting? If I move up and buy some land in those areas, how likely is it that my Dalmatian will become wolf food? Any info on the wildlife and any opinions on the hunting there will be greatly appreciated.


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## Timberdoodle2 (Jan 6, 2015)

you say your used to snow but you havnt had ironwood or keneewa snow,, it gets deep!! as for the deer hunting up there i have hunted it a little and its not going to measure up to your indiana and ohio hunting..dont know anything about the duck hunting.. others here should chime in.. as for the dog becoming wolf food i wouldnt worry about that to much. yes some have lost dogs but not on a regular basis. contact the local dnr up there for more insight on what is or isnt there.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

Those areas get a ton of snow 300 inches plus a year and gets brutally cold as well. If that doesn't do you in the bugs will. There is some good deer hunting to be had there but not big numbers of deer and fewer hunters. As for the wolves getting your dog ? It can be a roll of the dice if you just let it run. But there has been dogs killed chained up in there own yard. Odds are pretty low thow it will happen. Great fishing and bird hunting also. The thing I would worried the most about is if you move there, what happens if you lose your job ? There isn't much there in way of jobs. Maybe a part time clerk job at the local citgo gas station. If I could make a living there, I would move back in a heart beat.


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## Timberdoodle2 (Jan 6, 2015)

stickbow is right on the job situation, forgot to mention the black flies and skitters


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## ssrhythm (Jan 11, 2017)

Timberdoodle2 said:


> stickbow is right on the job situation, forgot to mention the black flies and skitters


Blackflies and Skeeters suck for sure, but then there are thermacells! Not worried about losing the job; I'm blessed to have plenty of opportunities elsewhere if something were to happen, but I'm in healthcare, and as critical access hospitals, the job will always be there If I do my part. I don't ever see not being in Ohio during the first two weeks of November no matter where I live, so if there are some deer there and plenty of places to go and take the boys in the early season, that'll do. Ducks are my main passion, and I just want to make sure I'm going to be somewhere with decent numbers of ducks. I'm not in a flyway here, and I only have a couple of creeks and one half a pond to hunt, but I've been able to scratch out 30-50 mallards each year, a few woodies, a pintail, and four blacks last year and two blacks this year. It's not barn-busting duck hunting, but it's not bad either. The pay is good, and I know the scenery and fishing will be outstanding, but if the duck hunting isn't as good or better than here, I don't think it will be worth the move.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

I don't know a thing about duck hunting but the Baraga area has a lot of goose hunters .


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## ltcnav (Oct 10, 2010)

If you are serious, better learn how it is spelled-
*Keweenaw. It is the penninsula that juts out into Lake Superior, a pretty large area.*


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## ssrhythm (Jan 11, 2017)

Seems like there are plenty of opportunities after searching around google a bit. Looks like the goose hunting can be outta sight good. We are going to take a trip up in writhin the month, so we will get to experience first hand what the dead of winter is like. It blows my mind that the mosquitos are as bad as they are there. Down south, it's pretty brutal for 10 months a year, and it seems like it wouldn't be that bad where temps dip into the 50s during summertime nights, but I've watched the black bear spring hunting shows and know it gets bad. So tell me...is it awful from April through October??? Blackflies and mosquitoes that is...or is their a period of reprieve from the swarms?


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## Brian Berg (Jun 22, 2013)

Don't forget the stable flies and ticks...


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

I live near Ironwood and worked in the Keweenaw Peninsual for about a year. Both places are deep snow country with Keweenaw being the heaviest snow fall. Currently they have received a total of 150 inches. The record is about 390 inches. There are plenty of inland lakes to duck hunt within 30 or 40 miles of Ironwood. Twenty-five miles south of Ironwood in Mercer,Wisconsin in Iron county (there are 87 lakes). The Flambeau Flowage is near Mercer and is great for decoy hunting divers like bluebill, and even golden eyes. Inland lakes get wood ducks, early teal, and mallards. Ironwood is wolf country, but so is Keweenaw.. Deer numbers are down in the western U.P. currently. Got any other questions feel free to ask.


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## ssrhythm (Jan 11, 2017)

Lawdy! I've been watching some YouTube footage. I can't believe that freaking blackflies could be s deal breaker. I worked at the Santee coastal reserve one week in may back in 1989 for wildlife biology college credits, and the deer flies were like what I'm seeing I. The videos. I was so messed up after an hour on the first day there, I hit myself in the face with a hammer that was in my hand while slapping at the bastages. Lost track of where I was working and ended up standing in a fireant bed swatting the flies and trying to get them out of a feed sack I had cut holes in and fashioned into an ineffective, makeshift mosquitoes net. I told them screw the credits if I had to go back out there...we were maintaining trunk and gates on the rice ponds. From what I can tell, thermacells are effective, but I'll probably have to visit during season to make a decision that big. Dammit I hate a biting bug!


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## Brian Berg (Jun 22, 2013)

I went on a fishing trip to Canada when I was a kid. The black flies were horrible. But I will say, after 4 or 5 days of it, you get accustomed to it. The bites are there, but they don't seem to bother you. They don't stay all summer either. They seem to hang around for the first part of the summer, then they're gone.


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## Buckbaker (Aug 3, 2015)

Yes bugs can be bad. But people do live there and people do vacation there so there must be ways to deal with them. First off, they are not always there. Second, even when they are bad in the woods, in town is fine. So considering deep snow and bugs, maybe you would want to live in town and just play in the woods when snow and bugs are not a problem.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Here in the U.P. bugs are a factor in early morning and in the evening primarily....except in low land with a lot of moisture. Deer flies....bite like a dog, but they are most active for a few weeks in the summer when its hot and dry. 
Bug repellent is fairly effective. Black biting flies along the Lake Superior shore and a ways inland vary every year.
Have been 7 miles out in the lake trolling and had them cover the boat. Bought a Thermocell....and it saved the day. 

Woodticks, like our black bear do not reproduce like clockwork every year. Some years are worse than other. Later in the spring seems to be the worst time around here. Although, ticks in my area were lower in numbers than other years. But, unfortunately the small deer ticks are becoming more pervasive and are active even in the fall.

Bottom line, I'd rather deal with bugs than what folks have to deal with in the big cities.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

A Thermocell will not be effective enough in much of the U.P. at certain times of the year. In my opinion, the black flies are not the worst bugs either (but that can be bad). In my neck of the U.P. the ticks, deer flies and horse flies are especially thick from the May warmup through mid-July. From late July on though, the bugs are not all that bad. If you go into the woods though during late spring/early summer, you need to be very prepared, and it is possible to beat them back with various bug sprays (deet and permithrin), especially the wimpy mosquitoes and black flies. I also forgot to mention, the stable flies can be a real problem along the Great Lakes when the humidity is high and it's warm. Those little buggers may be the worst of all when they are thick. I actually thought about moving to the U.P. too, but the bugs and snow changed my mind over the years. I can deal with it for stints, but not for life.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

Man I love the Yoop.


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## Cork Dust (Nov 26, 2012)

I grew up in southwestern Michigan hunting waterfowl, deer, and pheasants. I have now lived in the U.P. for thirty-four years. Yes, this is a different place; one I will never leave permanently. For twenty-five of those years I worked for a Pharma. company, driving 1,200 miles on-average per week covering physician clinics and hospitals up here. I think I have enough scope exposure and duration of contact with all of the population centers up here to speak to your concerns.

I would opt to live in the Keweenaw over Ironwood, particularly when you factor-in hunting opportunities. Houghton is an excellent small town with all the benefits a top-class college location brings with it. Combine this with entertainment options, to eateries, to groceries with both domestic and international focus. Plus, like Ironwood, the road commission employees know how to deal with heavy snowfall accumulations.

We have copious amounts of snow. I said snow, not gray slush, not the packy snowball/snowman stuff, real snow. If you don't ski via either downhill or cross-country;learn. We (my wife and our neighbors) keep a 4 mile and a 6 mile snowshoe trail open on the State and CFR lands near our neighborhood. 

You will have to put more time in to find a good buck. Hunting "Big Woods" deer is different that hunting deer in rolling farm country. I would suggest you read Jeff Sturgis' techniques to locate mature deer via cover-type intersection points. That said, I have killed over a dozen bucks in the 146" to 115' range. The Upper Peninsula Habitat Working Group has put in-place a variety of management plans specific to nearly all of the currently used Deer Wintering Complex sites (a handful of plans in the eastern U.P DWCs are still being finalized.) Goose hunting is very good. I carve decoys and am a devout waterfowl hunter. Duck hunting opportunities are good for both puddle ducks and divers. Turkey hunting is Very good, with the exception of the immediate Lake Superior shoreline areas that receive heavy annual snowfall values. You can also learn to miss grouse and woodcock.

Hunting land access and opportunities are substantially more accessible, be they on Federal Forest, State, or Private Corporate CFR lands (These lands are closed to off-road motorized traffic, accessible via foot travel only beyond gates.).

Wood ticks are more of a nuisance than are black flies or deer flies, both of which are cyclic and largely short-term pests. Stable flies can be a pain on the beaches of the Great Lakes, when the weather is warm and it is windless or a light breeze situation. A portable screen house is a worthwhile purchase, expanding your outdoors time.

I would not be concerned about your pet dog being consumed by wolves. I have two labrador retrievers around the house most of the time that spend a ton of time in the woods with us. Out of nine dogs we have owned, we have had only one confrontation with wild canids, and that was with coyotes trying to get at my six month old pup.

To avoid direct wolf conflict issues, avoid wolf den sites. I assure you they will avoid you.

As John Voelker said: " only in the woods (of the U.P.) can you find solitude without loneliness."


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

If you are going to do anything outdoors in the UP in the warmer months you adjust for insects. There are times of the day that you don't fish because you will be dinner. There are also places that you don't fish. Berry picking is out of this world on a good year. As for deer hunting you will have to do lots of scouting. Pick out about a dozen highly likely places and narrow them down. Don't stick to one spot and pick a mid day area where you can walk for a couple of miles looking for deer on the move. If you stay in areas that have lots of human traffic you should be okay with wolves. Do your homework on the ticks because there are plenty of them in the UP.


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## Cork Dust (Nov 26, 2012)

One thing I left out...Scandinavians dominate the geography you are considering to relocate to, along with some descendants of Cornish and Italian hard rock miners. "Finns" consider it confrontational/rude to make direct eye contact during conversation, so don't be offended-incredibly self-sufficient people and very resilient. Find a copy of The Winter War; severely outnumbered and under-equipped, they destroyed the Russian invasion force.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

If I had to pick between the Houghton or Iron Wood, I would pick Iron Wood, which is right on the WI boarder. I hunted N. WI and found incredible deer hunting there. Far better than anything I've seen in MI or OH, IL and IN too. Also far less snow there and likely better waterfowl and upland bird hunting. The grouse hunting in much of the U.P. is world class. I used to waterfowl hunt a lot, but in the last 10 years, I have really shifted over to grouse and enjoy it a lot. I also think that overall, the fishing would be better in the Ironwood area too, but that could be debatable.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

I


Cork Dust said:


> One thing I left out...Scandinavians dominate the geography you are considering to relocate to, along with some descendants of Cornish and Italian hard rock miners. "Finns" consider it confrontational/rude to make direct eye contact during conversation, so don't be offended-incredibly self-sufficient people and very resilient. Find a copy of The Winter War; severely outnumbered and under-equipped, they destroyed the Russian invasion force.


I did not know that about eye contact. Interesting.


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## Cork Dust (Nov 26, 2012)

Trophy Specialist said:


> If I had to pick between the Houghton or Iron Wood, I would pick Iron Wood, which is right on the WI boarder. I hunted N. WI and found incredible deer hunting there. Far better than anything I've seen in MI or OH, IL and IN too. Also far less snow there and likely better waterfowl and upland bird hunting. The grouse hunting in much of the U.P. is world class. I used to waterfowl hunt a lot, but in the last 10 years, I have really shifted over to grouse and enjoy it a lot. I also think that overall, the fishing would be better in the Ironwood area too, but that could be debatable.


I used to buy a Wisconsin license, but stopped. I used to hunt Oconto, but grew tired or the crowds. West of Ashland over to Bayfield area is good for waterfowl, but too many unmarked or poorly marked nets in the Apostles. I heard that the lake trout fishery is collapsing, so this may have changed.

The waterfowl that migrate across the Woodrff/Minocqua area lake cluster that Gordon McQuarrie wrote about "pop-out" on Green Bay from Escanaba south to Suamico. 

Mississippi Valley Canadas migrate through the central and western U.P., with the transition over to Southern James Bay flock birds occurring in the Seney NWR area and east to the St. Mary's River. The Lake Superior shoreline gets a fair number of divers moving along the coastline, with good numbers of scoters, goldeneye, and old squaw offshore. Divers and puddle ducks that funnel down the St. Mary's River diverge at Cedarville /Hessel, with a cohort moving along the northern Lakes Michigan and Huron coasts, Green Bay birds also move north and east to the Straits prior crosing into northern lower Michigan. Agricultural lands with nearby undisturbed loafing water can be knock-em dead good for every puddle duck, outside of wood ducks, which are numerous on beaver flowages and ponds in oak dominated woodlands. When you combine this with lower hunter numbers than you would experience in Wisconsin, as well as their bizaar law that denies you the ability to hunt from a boat on open waters.

Like anywhere else, individual success demands that you find the 'X' and set-up there. 

The question I would ask as follow-up to your deer hunting statements is: How long ago were you hunting there? If it was prior the hard winters a handful of years ago, then, yes it was very good.


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

Take a drive up to Houghton for winter carnival Feb 8-11 to get an idea of what winter is like up there. Then go back up in June to see what the bugs are like and do some fishing.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

Cork Dust said:


> I used to buy a Wisconsin license, but stopped. I used to hunt Oconto, but grew tired or the crowds. West of Ashland over to Bayfield area is good for waterfowl, but too many unmarked or poorly marked nets in the Apostles. I heard that the lake trout fishery is collapsing, so this may have changed.
> 
> The waterfowl that migrate across the Woodrff/Minocqua area lake cluster that Gordon McQuarrie wrote about "pop-out" on Green Bay from Escanaba south to Suamico.
> 
> ...


I have not hunted in WI in over 10 years, but my buddy is still experiencing phenominal hunting where he hunts there in NW WI within a couple hours of Iron Wood.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Martin Looker said:


> Take a drive up to Houghton for winter carnival Feb 8-11 to get an idea of what winter is like up there. Then go back up in June to see what the bugs are like and do some fishing.


Rooms have been booked for months.


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## Cork Dust (Nov 26, 2012)

Trophy Specialist said:


> I have not hunted in WI in over 10 years, but my buddy is still experiencing phenominal hunting where he hunts there in NW WI within a couple hours of Iron Wood.


I was assuming you were talking about the Ashland/Bad River Reservation area. 

Using your criteria and definition of close- two hours travel-that distance from Ironwood (without the need to purchase a out-of-state license by going East) would place him in the agricultural belt where over sixty percent of the annual deer kill has occurred historically, on 35% of the "dirt" in the U.P. I would also hazard a wager that access to deer hunting land in that three county block is better and far cheaper, if he opts to buy or lease, than land in or near the Buffalo County area, as well as CWD concern free.

Have a sit-down talk with an Infectious Disease specialist regarding CWD. The biggest issue that will potentially impact the U.P. deer herd's future is CWD spread. I maintain that one of the unrecognized vectors in prion dispersal is dirt on off-road vehicles and 4x4 truck chassis in ares where fulminant infections are occurring. Recent NIH study data has identified that plants can also be infected and serve as prion carriers, implicating the grasses in hay, other cereal crops, corn, fruits etc. as potential vectors for spread.

When you consider that the disease keeps popping-up in and around captive cervid facilities, despite current blood screening efforts -where high herd density obviates the need to augment the enclosed captive animals diet's-this fits with Koch's Postulates, even though prions don't "play by his rules", since they are infectious proteins and not a bacterium or virus.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Really enjoying the discussion in this thread on this cold (4 above zero) U.P. morning. The mention of not making eye contact during conversation with Finlanders was great! I worked at the White Pine Mine for 29 years and Finns made up a large part of the work force. It took awhile to fit in to be sure. But, once they find out you like to hunt and fish, work hard, speak the truth, and don't take any crap you are considered one of them. They were not especially fond of Cousin Jacks (Cornish/English) mostly because some of the bosses were Cousin Jacks. There was a lot of the Molly Mcquire feelings still there. Back in the old days bosses were told to keep the men pissed off so they would work harder. Took several decades for management to learned a pissed off work force worked harder....at disrupting production.

We moved here in 1973. A couple neighbor ladies came buy and welcomed us and brought cookies. Some folks were a little skeptical to come by because they heard I had bear dogs. Nobody bear hunted around here back in those days. They just killed bears as a nuisance. We live in an area called Green. Some folks may know of Green Park....a picnic area on Lake Superior. Not long after moving here neighbors invited us to a neighborhood picnic at the park. While sitting at a picnic table one of the neighbor's with a thick Finn accent asked if we were Finish. I said no, I'm sort of a mongrel. The individual sort of looked down their nose at me....when another Finn popped up and said, That's what's wrong with you people, you're all inbred....we need some new blood around here! Pretty good ice breaker.

Another time I was bear hunting up in Toivola with a co-worker who lived there. Was rigging along a gravel road when my dog struck a bear right by a mail box. Before I could drive off and not offend the home owner an older Finish couple came out to see what was going on. I told them I was sorry to have disturbed them, but my dog picked up on bear scent. They seemed to be enjoying the whole thing....and told me there had been a sow bear with a cub there a short time before. Then they asked us to come in for coffee. I declined, but expressed my sincere thanks for the offer.

That's how it used to be around here. But, just as it happened in northern Wisconsin....when city people move in things get territorial. No trespassing signs go up and distrust of everybody creeps in.

When I moved here I made it known...folks were hunting through our land long before we moved here, and they'll be hunting through here long after I am gone so have at it. Now a lot of the neighborhood is off limits. There was a downstate guy that bought a local motel. Then he bought a pine plantation on the north end of the Ottawa National Forest and proceeded to deny access to deny access to folks who trapped there for decades. Made a lot of enemies. Then one day this guy called me on the phone accusing me of hunting on his land. He claimed someone saw me in the area where the supposed trespass took place. I told him I do not go onto his property,
but did drive past it because it is a forest service road that leads into the national forest. He then said well the game warden told him he didn't think I would trespass onto his property. Makes a person think about flipping a lite cigarette into those pine some hot dry summer day (but, I don't smoke).

Bottom line with all this rambling...if you move to the U.P. and are a good neighbor you'll get along just fine.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

Well said Rooster, it's the truth. Most of the yoopers are a proud strong people. They will help you at a drop of a hat and can be very friendly or the biggest a$$ you will ever meet.


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## ssrhythm (Jan 11, 2017)

Cork Dust said:


> I grew up in southwestern Michigan hunting waterfowl, deer, and pheasants. I have now lived in the U.P. for thirty-four years. Yes, this is a different place; one I will never leave permanently. For twenty-five of those years I worked for a Pharma. company, driving 1,200 miles on-average per week covering physician clinics and hospitals up here.
> 
> I would opt to live in the Keweenaw over Ironwood, particularly when you factor-in hunting opportunities. Houghton is an excellent small town with all the benefits a top-class college location brings with it, from eateries, to groceries with both domestic and international focus. Plus, like Ironwood, the road commission knows how to deal with heavy snowfall accumulations.
> 
> ...


Great info...thanks! I spent my first 43 years in the woods of SC trying to remain still as swarms of mosquitoes sucked my blood and longing for the three or four days a year that freezing temps coincided with hunting season. I was worried about IN winter, but I find myself cussing the warm weather here and thoroughly enjoying spending the few sub zero and single digit days we have wading in the creeks and hammering the ducks looking for some open water. I know it will be a big step up in ruggedness and will require a next-level hardiness from us, but we are a family that digs adventure, and I have found that a good hunting will make miserable conditions delightful every time.


stickbow shooter said:


> Well said Rooster, it's the truth. Most of the yoopers are a proud strong people. They will help you at a drop of a hat and can be very friendly or the biggest a$$ you will ever meet.


Sounds not to different than neighbor relations in the Appalachian Mountains. It is, however, a universal fact; be good neighbors/have good neighbors...it just takes longer for that truth to play out in some places.


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## Cork Dust (Nov 26, 2012)

Luv2hunteup said:


> Rooms have been booked for months.


I had a physician I called on tell me I could stay at his camp during Winter Carnival, if I couldn't get a room. I ended-up taking him up on that offer a couple of times... We often joked about ordering a couple hundred irons and selling them in the weeks leading-up to the snow sculpture judging out of a car trunk on campus at night!


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

I moved out of the Copper Country in '76 for work just like a bulk of my friends did. I lived in Ripley on the west side of the ski hill and my wife lived on the east side of the ski hill. My plan was to move back when we retired but my wife couldn't leave the kids and creature comforts she got used to below the bridge. Houghton county offers a lot for the outdoorsman. 

There are two seasons, shoveling and swatting. You get used to both. You'll do fine once you realize there are 9 months of good sledding weather and 3 months of poor sledding weather. Season snow total this year is over 14 feet so far. 
John Dee has access to the north country camera system.
NOAA has and interactive map of snow depths.
Pasty.com/snow can give you updates on snow totals along with a nice picture of the snow thermometer, showing historical data. Pasty cam always has beautiful pictures.


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## Cork Dust (Nov 26, 2012)

stickbow shooter said:


> Well said Rooster, it's the truth. Most of the yoopers are a proud strong people. They will help you at a drop of a hat and can be very friendly or the biggest a$$ you will ever meet.


When I first moved over to Marquette from the Sault, I was still trapping. An oncology unit nurse at MGH told me that her ex-husband was looking for somebody to trap beaver on his land, as well as his brothers dairy farm. I gave her my contact information. My first trip in with her former husband was via woods roads and trails, involving an extra couple of miles of walking, prior arriving at the beaver flooding. I could see open land through the timber to the northeast and hear cattle calling. I shut-up and said nothing about our route. I trapped for three years for these two brothers, working as an intermediary along the way, since they seldom talked to each other (far longer story, there), eventually gaining access to hunt wood ducks and mallards off the pond complex, as well as geese in the empty pastures on the farm. Along the way, I got to listen to what life was like in the lumber camps, since both brothers worked the woods for most of the early years. In the end, I got them to actually converse together again routinely...prior their passing.

People don't always remain how you found them to be, initially. In our current environment, that gives me hope and renews my faith in Mankind.

I had the opportunity once to play pin-setter at the bowling alley in the Miscowaubik Club for a group of local physicians and an Infectious Disease specialist I brought-in from the Twin Cities, after he finished his talk on Hepatis B management and prevention. He kept bringing up how much fun he had last night the the following morning before I dropped him off at the airport to catch his flight back home. He actually requested my employer to notify him again if they had another speaking opportunity in the U.P. He eventually bought a camp up here and is now a full-time resident, post retirement.

There is a documentary: A Good Man in the Woods that is a worthwhile watch. It captures the flavor of the region quite well.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

Cork Dust said:


> When I first moved over to Marquette from the Sault, I was still trapping. An oncology unit nurse at MGH told me that her ex-husband was looking for somebody to trap beaver on his land, as well as his brothers dairy farm. I gave her my contact information. My first trip in with her former husband was via woods roads and trails, involving an extra couple of miles of walking, prior arriving at the beaver flooding. I could see open land through the timber to the northeast and hear cattle calling. I shut-up and said nothing about our route. I trapped for three years for these two brothers, working as an intermediary along the way, since they seldom talked to each other (far longer story, there), eventually gaining access to hunt wood ducks and mallards off the pond complex, as well as geese in the empty pastures on the farm. Along the way, I got to listen to what life was like in the lumber camps, since both brothers worked the woods for most of the early years. In the end, I got them to actually converse together again routinely...prior their passing.
> 
> People don't always remain how you found them to be, initially. In our current environment, that gives me hope and renews my faith in Mankind.
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting I loved it. I have never been so at piece in my life as when I lived there. Someday I will be back there for good. Wether it in body form or ashes. I truly love it there.


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## U of M Fan (May 8, 2005)

When I used to snowmobile the west end had the best trails. It was always amazing to see the amount of snow up there. It seemed like it never stopped snowing in Calumet. Had great times trout fishing up that way also on the Otter river.


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## Cork Dust (Nov 26, 2012)

U of M Fan said:


> When I used to snowmobile the west end had the best trails. It was always amazing to see the amount of snow up there. It seemed like it never stopped snowing in Calumet. Had great times trout fishing up that way also on the Otter river.




Check-out Brad Petzke, at Rivers North guide service. He knows nearly all of the trout streams up here intimately, as well as some walk-in Assinica brook trout lakes. 



This is the T.U. regional rep. and her husband on one of these lakes. Yes, both fish were released.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Loved that video clip! 

Some of you folks might remember when Dan Rather did the controversial so-called documentary, GUN'S OF AUTUMN. It started with Rather in an airplane flying over the U.P. looking down at what looked like wilderness as he spoke. He was telling about the sparse population of loggers and miners....and went on to say," if they thought they were going to have easy pickings there, they had another thing coming!"


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## U of M Fan (May 8, 2005)

Cork Dust said:


> Check-out Brad Petzke, at Rivers North guide service. He knows nearly all of the trout streams up here intimately, as well as some walk-in Assinica brook trout lakes.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the T.U. regional rep. and her husband on one of these lakes. Yes, both fish were released.


I use to hunt by Timber lake in Iron county and always wanted to take a float tube out there. I know that have some nice brookies in there.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

Luv2hunteup said:


> I moved out of the Copper Country in '76 for work just like a bulk of my friends did. I lived in Ripley on the west side of the ski hill and my wife lived on the east side of the ski hill. My plan was to move back when we retired but my wife couldn't leave the kids and creature comforts she got used to below the bridge. Houghton county offers a lot for the outdoorsman.
> 
> There are two seasons, shoveling and swatting. You get used to both. You'll do fine once you realize there are 9 months of good sledding weather and 3 months of poor sledding weather. Season snow total this year is over 14 feet so far.
> John Dee has access to the north country camera system.
> ...


If you could pick a place to live in the U.P. where would it be and why?


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## Cork Dust (Nov 26, 2012)

Yes, I can assure you personally there are some nice fish in there! Did you ever fish Cooks Run or the Iron? The Marquette MDNR fish hatchery used Iron River strain brook trout to develop their current brood stock from... numerous fish in the Iron, but not much size.

I did some bathymetric mapping via a Trimble GPS unit that had sub-meter accuracy,"married" to a small sonar unit on some other remote lakes in the central U.P. on corporate forest lands three years three years ago while working for a local company as a consultant. Several of these lakes were planted with Assinica strain brook trout or rainbows; many had next to nothing for fish populations beyond stunted members of the bass family and some minnows, a bit disappointing after spending a good chunk of time carrying a canoe through the woods. The MDNR requested written assurance that these lakes would not be developed or that lease agreements would be developed for private individuals or entities to gain partial access or control of them. One of the immediate follow-ups by the forestry company was to actually berm a couple of woods roads that lead-in to "boat liveries" and/or illegal campsites that we came across (one site had a fire pit that contained over a hundred partially incinerated beer cans) as well as a dock and boat ramp.

The two of us never stumbled into a meth. lab. or a marijuana grow operation, but we did end-up notifying the area's C.O. of the location of an illegal gillnet we found stashed on shore at one lake and several illegal bear baits, as well as coming across two sets of hours old cougar tracks. No major mosquito or deer fly issues either; eleven nesting pairs of loons were recorded and a couple of bald eagle nests that were previously unknown added to the U.P.inventory.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

U of M Fan said:


> I use to hunt by Timber lake in Iron county and always wanted to take a float tube out there. I know that have some nice brookies in there.


Shhhh.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

I 


Trophy Specialist said:


> If you could pick a place to live in the U.P. where would it be and why?


I Would go back to Iron County. Great bird ,Deer,Bear and Turkey hunting. Fishing is out of this world on inland lakes and miles of rivers. Big woods hunting to the north and west and farmland to the south. A couple hour drive to the porkies and to Copper harbor. Small town environment and you can still drive to cities like Iron Mountan, Marquette, Esky and Rinelander Wisconsin easily. To me there is no better place to live in the Yoop. I will also add you will have the woods, lakes and rivers basically to your selves. And great people.


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## U of M Fan (May 8, 2005)

stickbow shooter said:


> Shhhh.


Lol!!! Most people are too lazy to walk that far back.


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## U of M Fan (May 8, 2005)

Cork Dust said:


> Yes, I can assure you personally there are some nice fish in there! Did you ever fish Cooks Run or the Iron? The Marquette MDNR fish hatchery used Iron River strain brook trout to develop their current brood stock from... numerous fish in the Iron, but not much size.
> 
> I did some bathymetric mapping via a Trimble GPS unit that had sub-meter accuracy,"married" to a small sonar unit on some other remote lakes in the central U.P. on corporate forest lands three years three years ago while working for a local company as a consultant. Several of these lakes were planted with Assinica strain brook trout or rainbows; many had next to nothing for fish populations beyond stunted members of the bass family and some minnows, a bit disappointing after spending a good chunk of time carrying a canoe through the woods. The MDNR requested written assurance that these lakes would not be developed or that lease agreements would be developed for private individuals or entities to gain partial access or control of them. One of the immediate follow-ups by the forestry company was to actually berm a couple of woods roads that lead-in to "boat liveries" and/or illegal campsites that we came across (one site had a fire pit that contained over a hundred partially incinerated beer cans) as well as a dock and boat ramp.
> 
> The two of us never stumbled into a meth. lab. or a marijuana grow operation, but we did end-up notifying the area's C.O. of the location of an illegal gillnet we found stashed on shore at one lake and several illegal bear baits, as well as coming across two sets of hours old cougar tracks. No major mosquito or deer fly issues either; eleven nesting pairs of loons were recorded and a couple of bald eagle nests that were previously unknown added to the U.P.inventory.


I never fished cooks run or Iron. I hunted that area for many years. Only fished up there a couple times though. Fished Otter lake and river for a week about 20 years ago and I fished the fox river once. Did most of my trout fishing below the bridge because I spent my vacation time on deer hunting so it was hard for me to get the time. I wouldn't mind fishing Golden lake I was surprised how deep it is.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

U of M Fan said:


> Lol!!! Most people are too lazy to walk that far back.


The last time I was in there, I didn't catch any fish and while floating in my inner tube something grabbed my leg . Every cast I got snagged. The bugs were absolutely horrible. I got lost for two days because I stepped in quick sand and I lost my compass trying to get out. Then a pack of wolves trees me for another night. Then some drunk yoopers answered my calls for help. But I shut up when I heard banjo music playing. Finally I crawled out of there basically half naked and suffering from major blood loss and mental disorder. I still hear the screams in my head to this day. That should cover it.


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## U of M Fan (May 8, 2005)

stickbow shooter said:


> The last time I was in there, I didn't catch any fish and while floating in my inner tube something grabbed my leg . Every cast I got snagged. The bugs were absolutely horrible. I got lost for two days because I stepped in quick sand and I lost my compass trying to get out. Then a pack of wolves trees me for another night. Then some drunk yoopers answered my calls for help. But I shut up when I heard banjo music playing. Finally I crawled out of there basically half naked and suffering from major blood loss and mental disorder. I still hear the screams in my head to this day. That should cover it.


Oh that was you?????

Sorry we were just messing with you!!! Lol


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

I am glad You guy's left a trail of old style cans . I followed them out to safety.


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## U of M Fan (May 8, 2005)

stickbow shooter said:


> I am glad You guy's left a trail of old style cans . I followed them out to safety.


Yeah that orange marker tape is a real eyesore, beer cans work so much better. Lol


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

stickbow shooter said:


> The last time I was in there, I didn't catch any fish and while floating in my inner tube something grabbed my leg . Every cast I got snagged. The bugs were absolutely horrible. I got lost for two days because I stepped in quick sand and I lost my compass trying to get out. Then a pack of wolves trees me for another night. Then some drunk yoopers answered my calls for help. But I shut up when I heard banjo music playing. Finally I crawled out of there basically half naked and suffering from major blood loss and mental disorder. I still hear the screams in my head to this day. That should cover it.


Stickbow, you're U.P. experience reminded me of another incident from years ago. Back in the early 1970's there were not any local bear hunters with hounds around here. Once in awhile someone would come through town and ask at places like the local hardware store if they knew of anyone one local who bear hunts. They'd send them out to my place. 

One such individual was a guy named Dan Bolic from Hamtramek (not sure how to spell it). He didn't know anything about bear hunting so I showed him a place where bears had been feeding on apples recently. I remember he had a black Lab with him. Had a bright colored bandana tied around the dog;s neck so he wouldn't be mistaken for a bear. Anyhow, that afternoon off he went, him and the dog on their first bear hunt. Next morning he checked in. Said just before dark a bear came in. He spooked him and he bolted. Dan said he got down on one knee and tried to get off a shot. I asked why he got down on one knee. He responded saying, "I'm a kneeler you know."

Next day we took him on a hound hunt. Dogs treed a bear about a mile and a half in. Dan followed along with his trusty .44 Ruger carbine. By the time we climbed out of the second ravine Dan was nowhere in sight. We got to the treed bear and gathered up the dogs, let the bear go and walked back out expecting to see Dan at the truck.
Could not imagine him not being able to find his way back to the truck.

A couple hours later a farmer living nearby got a hold of us and said a guy came to his place exhausted and said he was lost and we needed to come get him. We headed to the farmer's place and saw Dan walking toward us.
When he saw the truck he burst into a big smile....we drove past like we didn't notice him then turned back to pick him up. 

Dan explained he was unable to keep up with us going to the dogs so he headed back, but rather than climbing back out of the ravine he walked north along the bottom. Said being lost in the "wilderness" he didn't know if he'd make it out that night so he shot a partridge so he wouldn't go hungry.

A day or two later he was involved in the killing of Mean Sue....where he fabricated the story that the bear was mauling me and he saved my life by killing the bear. That's a story for another time.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

Alright now we have to here the story of Mean Sue. Common


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

I got a story about mean sue. She is my ex wife.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Must be two Mean Sue's in Michigan, Sparkey. The guy from Hamtramick, Dan Bolic walked into a thick clear-cut with the two dog hunters who's the dogs were bayed up tight. They shot the bear at point blank range. By the time they got back out to the trail the story changed to where I was supposedly being mauled and Dan rescued my by killing the bear. I was out on the trail when all that was going on so if that story made its way back downstate it was no fault of mine.

Mean Sue was an old sow with two tags in her ears and as I recall two canine were cut off for some odd reason. Contacted El Harger (DNR Bear man) about the ear tags. He told me he had live trapped that bear 11 years before and hauled her the Sturgen River Gorge and released her. Obviously, she returned to her home range.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

Ah the ol gorge area. I love going in and out of there lol. That's definitely for younger guys.


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## Cork Dust (Nov 26, 2012)

stickbow shooter said:


> Ah the ol gorge area. I love going in and out of there lol. That's definitely for younger guys.


That is some very wild country...still is. 

We primarily hunted deer just northeast of there along the Sturgeon and north, as well as northeast to Herman and southe to "the spreads" section of the Sturgeon from the late 1980s until 1996 when the those two Big Snow years decimated the herd. There was a pack of around 13 wolves that hung around the Sturgeon R. north to a deer yard south of a feeder creek of the Falls. I never saw any wolf tracks down in the gorge itself prior relocated my deer camp to eastern Iron County again. I think we moved from Peavey Pond up there the year after Louis Roy and Howard Mesick killed those two book deer (1987?). I always admired Howard. The three of us were in our early thirties when we met-up with him still hunting several miles each day on foot in his early sixties. For two years we all hunted the same buck. We would meet-up in the morning at the Mead gate, everyone wearing their base layer long underwear and boots, with all our still hunting clothes loaded in our packs along with a sleeping bag apiece for the hike back in. Your beer can comment reminded me of that deer, because we marked each skidder road junction with a beer can stuck on a sappling upside down for straight ahead or sideways for turn here( Beer cans are obviously still abundant O.P.!). You always knew where Howard had stopped to post-up for an hour or two, because he would cut a little pile of hemlock branches to sit on and usually you could find a curled apple skin he would peel-off while he waited. In that country, the does would concentrate either around the beaver flowages that formed in sequence as the tributaries flowed down from the higher country to feed either the Sturgeon or the Falls Rivers, or in the heavy aspen and alder thickets along the main river course. The bucks would run their "swing" every couple of days, working down one feeder stream and back up the next, spending most of the summer and fall up in the open hardwoods. O.P. this is one pattern to look for around large river courses up here that flow through hilly terrain. The other is to use Google Earth and a topo map to find pinch points and intersections of clear-cut edges, conifer lowlands and old beaver flowages that have regrown as partial meadow/grass openings. Find several on the map and then go-in at snow-melt and ground truth the area looking for big rubs and large scrapes. You can see much further and all the sign will still be intact. I snow country the pellet trails in spring will give you a clear read of doe/fawn movement preference once storms hit. One other thing, I assume you see to the south is especially true up here, after leaf-drop you will notice a marked change in deer movement patterns, particularly those of old(er) deer.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

Excellent advice there CD. I saw the Louis Roy buck in person and only picks of the Howard Mesick buck in CBM book. There has always been some friggen studs taken in that area. When you hunt , do you always still hunt ? Or just post up on some sign.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

Cork Dust said:


> That is some very wild country...still is.
> 
> We primarily hunted deer just northeast of there along the Sturgeon and north, as well as northeast to Herman and southe to "the spreads" section of the Sturgeon from the late 1980s until 1996 when the those two Big Snow years decimated the herd. There was a pack of around 13 wolves that hung around the Sturgeon R. north to a deer yard south of a feeder creek of the Falls. I never saw any wolf tracks down in the gorge itself prior relocated my deer camp to eastern Iron County again. I think we moved from Peavey Pond up there the year after Louis Roy and Howard Mesick killed those two book deer (1987?). I always admired Howard. The three of us were in our early thirties when we met-up with him still hunting several miles each day on foot in his early sixties. For two years we all hunted the same buck. We would meet-up in the morning at the Mead gate, everyone wearing their base layer long underwear and boots, with all our still hunting clothes loaded in our packs along with a sleeping bag apiece for the hike back in. Your beer can comment reminded me of that deer, because we marked each skidder road junction with a beer can stuck on a sappling upside down for straight ahead or sideways for turn here( Beer cans are obviously still abundant O.P.!). You always knew where Howard had stopped to post-up for an hour or two, because he would cut a little pile of hemlock branches to sit on and usually you could find a curled apple skin he would peel-off while he waited. In that country, the does would concentrate either around the beaver flowages that formed in sequence as the tributaries flowed down from the higher country to feed either the Sturgeon or the Falls Rivers, or in the heavy aspen and alder thickets along the main river course. The bucks would run their "swing" every couple of days, working down one feeder stream and back up the next, spending most of the summer and fall up in the open hardwoods. O.P. this is one pattern to look for around large river courses up here that flow through hilly terrain. The other is to use Google Earth and a topo map to find pinch points and intersections of clear-cut edges, conifer lowlands and old beaver flowages that have regrown as partial meadow/grass openings. Find several on the map and then go-in at snow-melt and ground truth the area looking for big rubs and large scrapes. You can see much further and all the sign will still be intact. I snow country the pellet trails in spring will give you a clear read of doe/fawn movement preference once storms hit. One other thing, I assume you see to the south is especially true up here, after leaf-drop you will notice a marked change in deer movement patterns, particularly those of old(er) deer.


I have read a lot of your posts over the years and this one I feel was crafted under the influence as it seems different, but not in a bad way though. LOL
.


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## youp (Jan 5, 2017)

Blackflies will not chew through Shaklee Basic H. That's what the little buggers do is chew.

Deet works well on mosquitoes and ticks. If you feed a few thousand mosquitoes, their bites no longer swell and itch

A heavy dose of suntan oil will stop stable flies from ripping chunks out of you.

Ironwood has more problem wolves removed from the gene pool by the DNR than any other area in the UP. The Keeweenaw Peninsula seems to have a higher percentage of bunny huggers than any area other excepting Marquette. I think its the pseudo-enlightenment that higher learning institutions impress upon weak minds. 

Learn to hunt grouse or woodcock. Goose hunting can be great, but season the geese are around can be short. They like the grains further south. Wood duck hunting can be great. I have doubts that you will continue that kind of mallard kill. The diver ducks can make up for it. 

Move up now, Ironwood is way behind in snowfall.


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## Brian Berg (Jun 22, 2013)

youp said:


> Blackflies will not chew through Shaklee Basic H. That's what the little buggers do is chew.
> 
> Deet works well on mosquitoes and ticks. If you feed a few thousand mosquitoes, their bites no longer swell and itch
> 
> ...


I'll have to remember that about the suntan oil. Wearing a hat keeps them off too. They are attracted to hair.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Double sided carpet tape on the back of your hat collects flies like you can't believe.


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## Cork Dust (Nov 26, 2012)

stickbow shooter said:


> Excellent advice there CD. I saw the Louis Roy buck in person and only picks of the Howard Mesick buck in CBM book. There has always been some friggen studs taken in that area. When you hunt , do you always still hunt ? Or just post up on some sign.[/QUOTE
> 
> Over the years I have switched away from wool to the synthetic fabrics, which are lighter and offer the same heat retention benefits when wet. Fleece is very nice, but it really retains scent...


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## Cork Dust (Nov 26, 2012)

The Roy deer was shot while he was watching a saddle in a ridge line, on the north side of the ridge the face of it is pretty steep to near vertical much of the way along it, forcing the deer that are moving across to funnel through this spot. There is a swamp upstream of Plumbago Creek pond where I think that deer spent much of its time...a long way in and "uphill both ways". From what I recall of Howard's recount of events, he shot his deer the day after or two days after the Roy buck was killed. It was a rainy morning and they were running late when they arrived at the Mead gate at the power line crossing. Rather than waste the dark, Howard opted to walk up the power line right-of-way and sit on a tributary stream course about a quarter mile uphill from where everyone parked (Yes, in those days everyone honored a gate and didn't try to circumvent it with the ATV.). He said it was an easy decision, since he knew he was going to get soaked quickly and it enabled him to get back to the truck and get warmed-up if the rain didn't drop-off. He settled-in and had that deer walk-up past him less than two hours later. He told us the story after my hunting partner, Mike, shot a buck on the same trib. course across a small beaver flowage as it slipped down the edge. We were loading the deer in the dark when Howard walked-up to the gate.

Howard killed that deer we were all chasing two days into the season: an eleven point. He found blood in a set of tracks and followed it up. He shot the buck in the head, splitting the skull cap. Two "hunters" came scrambling up his tracks yelling that they had shot the buck the previous day in a fresh logging cut to the east and had followed it through the wet ground west. Howard said he put his knife and tag away and picked up his rifle to leave, when one of them asked if he would help them drag it back to the gate and give them a ride back. He told them he was not headed south,but north. When he finished that part of the story, he stopped. I asked him why he didn't off help. He said they looked and acted like poachers, not deer hunters; "scruffy out of shape with cobbled together attire and gear." When we checked-out their location off the Herman truck trail, we found a giant bait pile on the back edge of the logging cut with a repeated set of truck tracks pointed at it, with slash piled-up along both sides...somebody had been sitting there with their headlights aimed at that baitpile.

In Big Woods country,well away from roads, particularly if I have not seen good sign in previous outings in there or in previous years, I like to still hunt. Deer will often behave more like mule deer when you jump them, stopping to look back if they don't know specifically what spooked them to their feet. That one look back is often fatal.

We usually deploy in a rough triangle, with the point guy leaving a couple of minutes in advance of the two guys on his flanks. I am usually the point guy. If a deer is up and circling back behind me, I step behind the nearest tree and wait until I can hear or see my partners moving through the timber.

I areas that have been logged, I hunt clear-cut corners, particularly if the high timber outside them has a lot of oaks in it. I also like to use a call if there is little or no wind.

I do use bait when I am near roads or people, where the two legged and four legged predator density is so high it pushes deer to become primarily nocturnal. I try to sit the travel corridors from bedding cover to the bait, particularly if there is good newly made rub sign around. If I see no tracks in the snow or hear no vehicle traffic near me, I call every 20-30 minutes and glass or watch downwind. I'm sure others do this too, but I always set-up to take my quickest shot downwind in that 25-30 degree arc where the wind is blowing my scent to, even in light to no wind conditions and even though I take a bath in scent killer spray each morning after I dress at the truck. I shoot a Rem. 760 with a side-mount scope with a peep sight underneath the eyepiece bell to offset snow and rain issues with the lens image. These are light guns that enable you to load a second round quickly while still keeping the gun mounted. I dial the peep aperture out to broaden my sight picture and speed target acquisition and I paint my blade sight tip with luminous paint. I also rigged my sling with the rear stud in the top comb of the stock enabling me to string the sling band over my neck/shoulders area and keep the gun in the at-the-ready position while I walk.


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## Cork Dust (Nov 26, 2012)

stickbow shooter said:


> Cork Dust, have you ever heard about or seen The Wiegolds family of bucks they have taken ? Unbelievable.


Hans Weigold taught his two sons well, quite well. I duck hunt with his former physician. He often marveled that Hans would sleep out on the open to stay at it. They are walkers/still hunters, more along the lines of the Benoits in how they go after a deer. Many of those deer mounted by Terry and Jerry in their basement were taken near Kenora, Ontario as well as the Marquette/Baraga county border country.

ATV/UTV intrusions past private and corporate CFR gates have served to limit the area where a deer can grow old. We just don't have the nutrition/soils make-up/long growth season/short mild winters to generate big deer routinely, other than allowing them to walk for two to four years, or limiting public pressure over time.

Before someone says that wolves specifically stalk post-rut bucks, I'll tell you that is heresay, based on scant evidence... The more plausible cause of death was more likely post-rut rhabdomyolysis and death, followed by the carcass being scavenged by wolves, rather than a wolf killing a mature buck. The other way to look at the event from a probability perspective is...how did a buck live through to maturity around wolves, to suddenly get killed at 7,5YO or older?

Time for me to get going and pull those cameras...


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

If you get some pics, post em if you would.


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## WAUB-MUKWA (Dec 13, 2003)

North Ironwood and the Porkies were the places to hunt in the same time frame. Back when everybody walked and still hunted. Wheelers and jacked up fat tired diesels have now invaded that hunting area like a bad tick infestation.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

In Iron County they have been cracking down big time on atv/orvs. Ask U of M Fan about that.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Cork Dust said:


> Your tape have the video segment showing the cooky-cutter bucks arrayed outside the Taxidermy shop by Chassell? Sorry, I just went downstairs to check the tag on my 1987 buck.
> 
> Probably the most interesting thing about that Fall is that it came on the back of a previous hard winter. I shot a nine that had a beautiful rack that swept well forward, but without much mass. His brows and G2s were short too. When I too him into the MDNR field office, Jim Hammill commented, "just think what this guy would look like had we had a mild winter last year?"
> 
> ...


10 to 15 deer per square mile sounds high. 
Where did you obtain your deer population estimates from? I've asked Dave Jentoff, Terry Minzey and Russ Mason for population estimates, their combined response was the DNR no longer estimates Michigan's deer population since they gave up on SAK.


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## Cork Dust (Nov 26, 2012)

Luv2hunteup said:


> 10 to 15 deer per square mile sounds high.
> Where did you obtain your deer population estimates from? I've asked Dave Jentoff, Terry Minzey and Russ Mason for population estimates, their combined response was the DNR no longer estimates Michigan's deer population since they gave up on SAK.


You touch on an interesting point that should be expanded-on, since the lack of ANY empiric estimate nor valid estimation techniques negates their whitetail management plan and policy. The document speaks in broad terms of trend management, rather than deer density assessment as a barometer of managment effort(s) success.

I came across them while reading though CWD assessment studies. I don't remember the publication year. As you state there are no current estimates or valid estimates per the agency's own assessment of SAK model precision. I also don't know whether the range values were spring or fall numbers. I find it a little disingenuous of these MDNR officials, since they continue to list population estimates at the statewide level (1.75 million in 2016) for deer and then make this statement...

I do think 10 deer per square mile in the fall is a reasonable minimal value for agricultural lands, which comprise roughly 35% of the total square mile area (16,452 sq. mi.), so extrapolating off that density value you get around 57,000. Applying five deer per square mile to the remaining acreage, would yield another 53,000 animals. So these two values combined would likely represent a minimum lower-bound estimate value of 110,000 deer.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

I feel your estimates are a lot closer to being accurate than the first estimated value. If a lot of the 2015 & 2016 born deer make it to see June 1st things will be on the road to making a recovery.


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## Cork Dust (Nov 26, 2012)

Luv2hunteup said:


> I feel your estimates are a lot closer to being accurate than the first estimated value. If a lot of the 2015 & 2016 born deer make it to see June 1st things will be on the road to making a recovery.


I sincerely hope not. One other very important statistic to consider is also the percentage of does in the population in the fall. I lean more toward a fall herd of over 150,000 animals, with a minimum of 65% of this value does. If you assume that all does are impregnated, which appears to be true via the Mississippi State University deer predation studies that are ongoing, absent wiinter mortality, spring fawn drop would add nearly 100,000 if all pregnant does dropped a single viable fawn, far higher should they drop twins. The value of holding overwinter mortality at a minimum is further undersored. Add-in yearling buck losses from exhaustion and starvation now that they are doing the vast majority of the breeding in the fall...

First year mortality estimates for fawns can be as high as 80to100% at current herd numbers via the MSU data in the moderate snowfall tier.

My perspective remains...How does anyone, including the current array of wildlife division managers know not only whether the herd is recovering, but how well of how far it is along that path, as well as what the trajectory of recovery is? If you opt to not make empiric estimates of deer habitat, as well as deer within that habitat, you have no guidance... Why is this important? How do you target and/or determine the success of a management initiative when you have no means of generating how many more or fewer management goal items (deer) exist on the landscape at any given point in time, or can still be sought via your management directive(s). The other point is when and how do you measure trends in deer density? Do you simply plot kill statistics and assume everything else impacting that number is a constant? If, yes, then I would move to support a mandatory online registration requirement, with loss of hunting privileges as the "stick".

The MDNR has hired a whitetail specialist whose background is not in habitat or habitat management, but in population dynamics, yet she has no model to apply to direct her efforts in Region 1 and Region 2. The Mississippi State folks made specific recommendations to the MNDR on use of occupancy models and employing camera surveys to determine whitetail numbers...as usual, they have been ignored by State of Michigan wildlife agency managers;an absolutely ridiculous approach to managing the resource.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

Cork Dust said:


> I sincerely hope not. One other very important statistic to consider is also the percentage of does in the population in the fall. I lean more toward a fall herd of over 150,000 animals, with a minimum of 65% of this value does. If you assume that all does are impregnated, which appears to be true via the Mississippi State University deer predation studies that are ongoing, absent wiinter mortality, spring fawn drop would add nearly 100,000 if all pregnant does dropped a single viable fawn, far higher should they drop twins. The value of holding overwinter mortality at a minimum is further undersored. Add-in yearling buck losses from exhaustion and starvation now that they are doing the vast majority of the breeding in the fall...
> 
> First year mortality estimates for fawns can be as high as 80to100% at current herd numbers via the MSU data in the moderate snowfall tier.
> 
> ...


I have a solution, which I have suggested many times, but has been ignored for some reason by the DNR. They should count the deer the same way they do wolves on fly-overs. Heck, they can even combine the effort and count both at the same time to save money.


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## U of M Fan (May 8, 2005)

stickbow shooter said:


> In Iron County they have been cracking down big time on atv/orvs. Ask U of M Fan about that.


Funny thing is when we first started hunting there, they used to drive trucks down those fire lanes with rifles in their laps. Lol


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

U of M Fan said:


> Funny thing is when we first started hunting there, they used to drive trucks down those fire lanes with rifles in their laps. Lol


That's true, and the pipe line had a atv trail running along the whole thing. The trail was still there but the brush has grown up to about six ft. and you can't see down it in some spots. I am not giving up on that spot even though I don't think I will ever kill a giant there. It's still might produce some nice ones. But the hunting pressure in that area was kinda heavy this year. You need to get back up there.


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## U of M Fan (May 8, 2005)

stickbow shooter said:


> That's true, and the pipe line had a atv trail running along the whole thing. The trail was still there but the brush has grown up to about six ft. and you can't see down it in some spots. I am not giving up on that spot even though I don't think I will ever kill a giant there. It's still might produce some nice ones. But the hunting pressure in that area was kinda heavy this year. You need to get back up there.


I might, even if I do it solo. There was a new camp down the road this past season. I love that place especially when there are deer there. Lol


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## U of M Fan (May 8, 2005)

stickbow shooter said:


> That's true, and the pipe line had a atv trail running along the whole thing. The trail was still there but the brush has grown up to about six ft. and you can't see down it in some spots. I am not giving up on that spot even though I don't think I will ever kill a giant there. It's still might produce some nice ones. But the hunting pressure in that area was kinda heavy this year. You need to get back up there.


They come off that road to the west of my camp to access the pipeline. I think the guys in those cabins use it, unless that forest ranger caught them using it.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

That road to the west is where all the hunting pressure was at. I have never seen so many guys there. There had to be at least 8 trucks parked along it. Plus a motor home. I did see one guy camping close to your spot ( west ).He had a small camper and had an American flag hanging off of it.


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## Cork Dust (Nov 26, 2012)

U of M Fan said:


> Funny thing is when we first started hunting there, they used to drive trucks down those fire lanes with rifles in their laps. Lol


The most bazaar thing I have ever seen during gun season in the U.P. woods was a truck driving slowly down a sand road with two " tribal hunters" lashed to the cab roof. It was a Toyota with a good muffler. The first time I saw it from my original vantage point, I thought I was hallucinating briefly, because all I could see were two humans floating along through the woods


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## WAUB-MUKWA (Dec 13, 2003)

Cork Dust said:


> The most bazaar thing I have ever seen during gun season in the U.P. woods was a truck driving slowly down a sand road with two " tribal hunters" lashed to the cab roof. It was a Toyota with a good muffler. The first time I saw it from my original vantage point, I thought I was hallucinating briefly, because all I could see were two humans floating along through the woods


Imagine that a toyota with a good muffler. LOL A rare sight indeed.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

One time I was hunting along the Brule river . I was up on the hill tops still hunting along the edges looking down the sides for bedded bucks. When I saw a station wagon driving down the grade below . It looked like a porkypine, every window that could be opened had a gun sticking out of it. I just shook my head. Road hunting is very common in this area but this was a first for me.


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## damgoodhunter (Jan 18, 2017)

ssrhythm said:


> Hello, I am originally from SC, I currently live in central IN, and I'm thinking about taking a job in either Ironwood or Keneewa. My family loves winter and snow, so that won't be a problem. I'm wondering about the hunting up there. I go after Whitetail hard here and in Ohio from season opener through mid November with most of my stand time being the first two weeks of November in Ohio, and then I turn my attention to ducks. I chase turkeys in the spring and do a little fishing in the spring and summer. I figure the deer hunting will be pretty good up there, but I'm sure that duck hunting will be a whole different beast with opportunities at divers on superior. Not looking for any specifics on places and not cyber scouting...just want to know if the duck hunting is pretty good there, what species are targeted besides the typical puddlers migrating through, etc. What other big game do y'all hunt up there, and is there any decent turkey hunting? If I move up and buy some land in those areas, how likely is it that my Dalmatian will become wolf food? Any info on the wildlife and any opinions on the hunting there will be greatly appreciated.


The deer hunting in the UP can be great or not so great, but it sounds like you put the time in scouting so you will probably have pretty good success. This year we spent a week on the stand for the opener of Bow and a week for rifle. While we only ended up with one buck we had plenty of missed opportunities. We saw deer every day, a lot of them. If your family likes the outdoors there is always something to do. In the winter you have downhill skiing, cross country skiing, and snowmobiling are just a few of our favorite past times in the winter. In the summer the fishing, camping, and hiking are pretty amazing. Bugs can be an issue, but I bought my family bug suits and that solved the bug problem! You asked about other big game, have you ever thought about bear hunting? I love shooting deer, but bear hunting is truly amazing! Duck hunting is OK, it does not compare to Arkansas, but you get first crack at a lot of local birds and the Canadian Goose hunting in that area is pretty good. Last thing I will throw out to you is trapping. We trap in the winter for coyotes and fox and it is a blast! We spend the frigid days in the truck checking traps, enjoying the beautiful country.


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## yooperkenny (Jul 13, 2004)

I've enjoyed the discussion here in response to the OP's original inquiry; lots of knowledgeable folks contributing with obvious experience up here.

My bride and I moved to Houghton immediately upon our marriage in '81 so that I could attend MTU; we've been in the UP ever since seeking adventure, hunting & gathering, and raising our family, with 5 years in the Soo before moving to Marquette County for good in '88. 

Houghton has a distinct vibe that hooked us from the start, and we always enjoy visiting up there especially since we established our family camp a short drive south of there in '98 and built the cabin in '05. It's pretty much the only other place we'd live in da UP other than Marquette area. For some it might come down to living in a college town or not, because that definitely makes a difference that seems to attract some and repulse others lol

The responses confirm that waterfowling has good potential up here, and give some thought to bear hunting which is a great big woods experience that provides amazing table fare. Lots of turkeys, and although they've been spotted in the Copper Country I've had the most success in the Banana Belt down Delta County way. Fishing is simply world class, and opportunities for camping, hiking, skiing, snowshoeing, kayaking, exploring waterfalls and such seem never ending.



ssrhythm said:


> ...I don't ever see not being in Ohio during the first two weeks of November no matter where I live, so if there are some deer there and plenty of places to go and take the boys in the early season, that'll do....


That actually could work out quite well because in my opinion the highest quality UP deer hunting experience is with a muzzleloader in early December with snow on the ground, very few other hunters around, and surviving deer looking for food and moving to winter yards along traditional migration trails.

As far as bugs and snow, when you're swatting you're thankful you're not shoveling and vice versa. If you wanna be here bad enough, you deal with it one way or another and find a way. Definitely keeps the riff raff out for the most part

Good luck whatever you decide!


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## damgoodhunter (Jan 18, 2017)

Late season Muzzle loader and bow is truly amazing! It is nothing to see 100, 200 deer a day on Migration routes or the deer yards. Because it is usually cold we do a lot of still hunting, with pretty good success.


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

Be careful hunting the yards because my up friends don't like it when trolls hunt those yarded up deer.


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