# Looking for long-range shooters



## Mickey Finn (Jan 21, 2005)

Hmmm, who are you recruiting for exactly?:16suspect


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Mickey Finn said:


> Hmmm, who are you recruiting for exactly?:16suspect


:lol:

Honestly, it should not be hard to find people capable of making 400yd shots, nor is it really that hard to do.

I site in for 200yds and bring my ranger finder into the field. Anything 300yds or closer I don't adjust my aim point. As you range animals farther from 300yds I adjust up knowing my drop at 400yds. Not really rocket science. I also use a bipod which almost makes it so any idiot can make long shots.

I should add that a few years ago we were at a 300yd range where some guys seemed to be prepping for a trip out west. Well, they had drawn a deer on card board and were plicking away at it. When done they were congratulating themselves on their good shooting and left the cardboard at the end of the range. I almost fell over laughing when we walked down to setup. The cardboard deer was riddled from tail to nose with holes :lol: So maybe there is a little more to it


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

TSS Caddis said:


> :lol:
> 
> Honestly, it should not be hard to find people capable of making 400yd shots, nor is it really that hard to do.


Not too long ago< Jim Charmical (sp?) the gun writer for Outdoor Life did a test just to see how many people were proficient at 200 yards. It was very interesting that very few were, I think even suprized him.


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

Many people are capable of taking 200-400 yard shots, few are capable of doing so with an acceptable degree of accuracy.

Should be an interesting article. There is alot more to making ethical long distance shots, then just being able to shoot long distances.

Hope you come back and post a link when it'd done.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

2PawsRiver said:


> Many people are capable of taking 200-400 yard shots, few are capable of doing so with an acceptable degree of accuracy.


What would be the purpose of making any shot with accuracy as a secondary consideration?  :lol:


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## Rustyaxecamp (Mar 1, 2005)

I anchored a fat doe at a step short of 200 this fall with my 30-06. Farthest shot to date on a live animal.

It didn't feel nearly as cool as one at 20 yards with an iron sighted 30-30.

IMHO ....I'd rather brag about getting super close, than poking one way out.....

There is a website just for that type of thing http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/index.php There used to be some MI people on there.


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

> What would be the purpose of making any shot with accuracy as a secondary consideration?


My point was that most people shoot farther then they are capable.

If most people were half as good a shot and they think they are, they would be twice as good a shot as they actually are..................there, wrap your mind around that


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## Rustyaxecamp (Mar 1, 2005)

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=150966


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

2PawsRiver said:


> My point was that most people shoot farther then they are capable.
> 
> If most people were half as good a shot and they think they are, they would be twice as good a shot as they actually are..................there, wrap your mind around that


Agreed, it a wrap :lol:

I always bit my lip when I hear stories of distances.

The neighbor and I shoot at the bow range quite frequently at 70+ yards but neither of us would do more than 30 in the woods. 

Oh, and "the crust of the biskit is the apostrophy" :chillin:


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

to shoot prairie dogs at long distances? Makes deer look like elephants. Ill have to agree with TSS on this one. One becomes proficient knowing his equipment, ranges [laser rangefinder] ballistics, and shooting those distances. Iam sure there are many here besides myself that have taken big game beyond 300-400 yards plus. Not to mention thousands of varmints the size of coke bottles farther!
300-400 yards isnt that far if you practice and have suitable equipment. Cooter and his iron sighted lever action 30-30 arent quite what were talking about here.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

Like others have said, if you KNOW your weapon and KNOW the variables (wind, angles) and you HAVE to use a range finder and quality optics.


I used to spend a TON of time shooting my weapons and had no qualms shooting anything I could get my crosshairs on. Basically if I could see it, it was in range. In the past few years my range time has decreased and I wouldn't feel confident taking a 400yd shot today. The biggest thing most people fail to realize is that when you pass 300 yds your bullet will drift as much because of wind deflection as it will drop. I zeroed my 7mm for 200 yds and would be 8" low at 300, 19" low at 400. One trick I used is this- deer are roughly 20" top of back to bottom of chest. -20" at 400 meant I held half the animals depth over its spine and ususally just forward of the sholder (as usually they will face into the wind) and stroked it for a lung shot.

My longest rifle kill on a whitetail was 467yd and my longest with a pistol was 239 yds.


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## aquaticsanonymous (Jul 1, 2006)

Many people claim to be proficient at longe range, and I think in reality, few are. Knowing your ballistics, ammunition, gun capablities, range, wind and other factors are a variable which an informed shooter may increase their range, but overal, most people without proper training are at best lucky when making 400 yard kills. I talked with one fine gentlemen who hunts the adjacent field to me with a 7mm who told me that he sights his rifle in for 700 yards and if he can see it, he kills it. I have hunted within range to hear him empty his weapon routinely and when I see him at the truck after the evening hunt he is always empty handed. I think for some, it is a ego booster to brag to others about how far they can shoot. I know my limitations, and I do have training in shooting rifles, probably more than most, but 400 yards would be a stretch for me. I will not say that there are not people out there who can not shoot that far or farther, because I know people who are great shooters who fill tags farther than 400 yards routinely with good accuracy, but most can't! Plain and simple!


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

2Paws, I was thinking on the way home last night. Prior to this job I was bartending and I would converse with the people that were on the pool leagues. We would discuss shot slelections and/or methods and my phrase was always, "I never missed a shot from here" meaning while I was standing behind the bar. Much like internet snipers


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

KLR said:


> My longest rifle kill on a whitetail was 467yd and my longest with a pistol was 239 yds.


239 yards with a pistol? What was the make and caliber?


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## NoWake (Feb 7, 2006)

M1Garand said:


> 239 yards with a pistol? What was the make and caliber?


Well, a .38 snubbie of course.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

M1Garand said:


> 239 yards with a pistol? What was the make and caliber?


 
Magnum Research LEP .260 Rem w/ Burris 2x7 (before anyone else says it-I know, shoulda bought the Encore)


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## malainse (Sep 2, 2002)

Mickey Finn said:


> Hmmm, who are you recruiting for exactly?:16suspect


With a Michigan.gov email address, we could only hope....:16suspect


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## KingSalmon (Aug 9, 2002)

KLR said:


> ...and my longest with a pistol was 239 yds.


I call B.S. what calibre pistol and was this whitetail 30 feet tall? I would have to see video to believe this fish story.....


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## Rustyaxecamp (Mar 1, 2005)

KingSalmon said:


> I call B.S. what calibre pistol and was this whitetail 30 feet tall? I would have to see video to believe this fish story.....


He said it was in 260. Its very do-able.

The late great Elmer Keith shot a deer at ~600 yds with a 44 revolver...


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## ronintank (Dec 4, 2007)

look up some of the shooters on this list.
These are long range (long range is 1000 yards) match shooters.
this match was may 2008 at camp grayling michigan.
http://www.michrpa.com/PDFS/2008 LR May_Results.pdf


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

KLR said:


> Magnum Research LEP .260 Rem w/ Burris 2x7 (before anyone else says it-I know, shoulda bought the Encore)


Nice, I kinda figured it something like that. My first thought was the T/C though. Not happy with the MR or rather have the Encore?


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## steelsetter (Dec 14, 2003)

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(sight in from 200 to 600 yards) on a regular basis with a capable caliber and optics, and hitting deer sized targets becomes a lot easier.

HOWEVER it is still hard to do....

I usually do 2-3 long range sight ins a year.

It's a lot of work, but I know my guns because of it.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

M1Garand said:


> Nice, I kinda figured it something like that. My first thought was the T/C though. Not happy with the MR or rather have the Encore?


 
The biggest problem with the MR is that each different caliber is a seperate barreled action, therefore reqiring a purchase permit every time you want a new caliber to play with...something you don't have to deal with when you own a TC. Plus about 3 months after I bought mine MR discontinued the mfg the LEP and their values hve not held up like TC's do. Also-the firing pin is pretty fragile, I'm on the third or fourth one after just a few thousand rounds, and there is a new one on the work bench, just in case.......I will give it it's dues though- I have a .22 hornet bbl that is as accurate as any rifle I own.


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## Wetlandhunter (Jun 7, 2005)

KingSalmon said:


> I call B.S. what calibre pistol and was this whitetail 30 feet tall? I would have to see video to believe this fish story.....


It can happen I shoot 50 and 100 yards with my .357 sig and my 10mm.:lol:

This 50 BMG handgun could shoot a 1000+ yards


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## Hunter333 (Jan 19, 2000)

So where is the original poster? Perhaps he was/is a poser instead of a writer??!!!!


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## Grouse Hunter (Jan 23, 2000)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Aw-35x9E-s


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## eddiejohn4 (Dec 23, 2005)

I am confident of my capabilities out to 400.


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## hobtag (Oct 25, 2006)

Rifle (centerfire)

550 yds give or take a few 

Mule deer 

1903 springfield , (as issued) open sights

150 gr. winchester silvertip

rifle (black powder)

300 yds

50 caliber t/c hawken (scoped)

120 grs GOEX 3 F
.500 round ball, .015 patch

Handgun 

175 yds

T/C contender (scoped)
45/70

300 gr HP (handload)

shooting at that range is easy once you shoot the 1000 for awhile , 

just need to practice and learn your gear, which most people do not do.

also shoot at smaller targets, you don't shoot at the whole deer , you pick a spot on the deer , like a tuft of hair , the little white spot behind the shoulder,

practice by shooting thumb tacks , not big black targets

biggest thing is shoot , shoot , shoot


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

KLR said:


> The biggest problem with the MR is that each different caliber is a seperate barreled action, therefore reqiring a purchase permit every time you want a new caliber to play with...something you don't have to deal with when you own a TC. Plus about 3 months after I bought mine MR discontinued the mfg the LEP and their values hve not held up like TC's do. Also-the firing pin is pretty fragile, I'm on the third or fourth one after just a few thousand rounds, and there is a new one on the work bench, just in case.......I will give it it's dues though- I have a .22 hornet bbl that is as accurate as any rifle I own.


It's too bad there's not an aftermarket firing pin that is a little more sturdy. I've always toyed with getting a Hornet in the CZ. That's got to be a fun round to shoot and play with in that MR.


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## jayzbird (May 19, 2005)

Does take alot of practice. Once you learn your rifle/ammunition shooting long distance is still pretty hard. Holdovers for long range is easily accomplished as long as you know your yardage. Judging target distance and doping the wind isn't. Most guys that shoot long distance would be lost if it weren't for their rangefinders. At 400 yards with a 8-10 mph side wind will make you ALMOST COMPLETELY miss a deer if your're holding in the kill zone. I know from experience trust me. If you want to talk to some real riflemen talk to the guys out west. It's pretty hard to get a 400 yard shot in Michigan....And MOST of the guys that say they can hit their targets at that range are comletely full of bull. These are the guys that are good at typing or talking and NOT good at marksmanship. Guys that pull of such shots practice often and have lots of experience, not the guys that load their dad's 30-06 with Remington core-lokt's and shoot a box of shells every couple of years. We owe it to the animals we hunt to kill them as quickly and humanely as possible.


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## rotty (Jan 22, 2003)

Well myself and 3 friends just returned from South Dakota on a prairie dog hunt, we made shots out past 500yds from benched and prone shooting postions, lots o fun.....
I shot my Mule deer last year in colorado at 245yds from a field kneeling postion .....


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

jayzbird said:


> Does take alot of practice. Once you learn your rifle/ammunition shooting long distance is still pretty hard. Holdovers for long range is easily accomplished as long as you know your yardage. Judging target distance and doping the wind isn't. Most guys that shoot long distance would be lost if it weren't for their rangefinders. At 400 yards with a 8-10 mph side wind will make you ALMOST COMPLETELY miss a deer if your're holding in the kill zone. I know from experience trust me. If you want to talk to some real riflemen talk to the guys out west. It's pretty hard to get a 400 yard shot in Michigan....And MOST of the guys that say they can hit their targets at that range are comletely full of bull. These are the guys that are good at typing or talking and NOT good at marksmanship. Guys that pull of such shots practice often and have lots of experience, not the guys that load their dad's 30-06 with Remington core-lokt's and shoot a box of shells every couple of years. We owe it to the animals we hunt to kill them as quickly and humanely as possible.


I think you are greatly exaturating the difficulty in shooting long range as well as seeming to doubt the people that have posted on this thread.

It is fairly easy to shoot 400yds in Michigan if you are hunting fields. I personally have shot deer at that distance in Michigan on a farm that we used to hunt near Rodney. I have also shot deer out in S.D. with the longest shot there being 300yds dead on the money. All these deer were ranged with a laser range finder. I usually shoot a 3" group at the 300yd range and can post pics. Gun can do much better than that, but with a HVD reticle at 14x it is too hard for me to have the exact point of aim, I'm sure there are others that would do better with my same setup.

This is not rocket science. It requires a steady rest, a good trigger pull and an accurate rifle/shell combination and that's it.

True most people do not shoot well at distance, but most are very capable if they were to learn that all the bad habits they can get away with at 50yds can not be tolerated at 200+.


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## jayzbird (May 19, 2005)

jayzbird said:


> Holdovers for long range is easily accomplished as long as you know your yardage. Judging target distance and doping the wind isn't. Most guys that shoot long distance would be lost if it weren't for their rangefinders.


Caddis- Nuff said. Not everyone in Michigan carries rangefinders and MOA rifles with 14x scopes capable of doing such feats. I can't tell you how many times I've been at the range where I have actually seen guys skip their bullets off the ground into their intended targets. I am speaking of 75% of most hunters out there. Was the wind blowing at all with your 400 yard shots? Here is a link to a nice article that has some nice info for some long range rifle work that you may find educational http://www.gunhuntermag.com/Article...View/articleId/6/Coping-With-Wind-Drift-.aspx

BTW- Wasn't it you that said this? "I should add that a few years ago we were at a 300yd range where some guys seemed to be prepping for a trip out west. Well, they had drawn a deer on card board and were plicking away at it. When done they were congratulating themselves on their good shooting and left the cardboard at the end of the range. I almost fell over laughing when we walked down to setup. The cardboard deer was riddled from tail to nose with holes So maybe there is a little more to it "


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## Nealbopper (May 28, 2008)

Good advise to anyone who is willing to listen, "Shoot the distance
you feel comfortable with but you should never feel good about wounding 
any animal"


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

had some 400+ kills but in 20-30 mph winds it takes a bit of doing. Shooting 22-250/243s easier done with larger guns at longer ranges (shouldve taken the 25-06 this year). Lots of targets this year!.


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## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

Not all shooters are created equal, for many reasons. Most importantly is practice. I handload and run my load through a ballistics program, and then confirm at the range. I took a 4x3 muley last fall, a quick shot with hardly no time to judge distance. I guessed 300 yards and after it dropped, I ranged it at 330. We were shooting prairie dogs at 350 to 400 yards too. Wind doping was the only real issue we had for the PD's. I practice on a 250 yard range, which helps.


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## Rustyaxecamp (Mar 1, 2005)

Estimating range is just as important as being able to put them in the 10 ring at various ranges. Being able to make bugholes at 100 yds is great, but if you can't tell 200 from 350, you're going to have problems.

For years, my friends and I have played "games" while driving around or in the field hunting on guessing ranges to various objects, trees, signs, hills, etc... Until you get in the field and have to guess, it is amazing how different scenarios like open spaces, hills and snowcover can change the way things look.

It is suprising how much peoples guess vary. In the past few years a few have bought laser rangefinders and that makes it more of a learning experience..


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## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

Rustyaxecamp said:


> It is suprising how much peoples guess vary. In the past few years a few have bought laser rangefinders and that makes it more of a learning experience..


I agree. A rangefinder will teach you distances. That a good idea about the guessing game. I may have to do that. I'll just keep it in my truck.


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

QuakrTrakr said:


> I agree. A rangefinder will teach you distances. That a good idea about the guessing game. I may have to do that. I'll just keep it in my truck.


We wouldnt go without them. The terrain is such that one could easily think a shot is but 200 but be 350 or more with the way the land drops there.
Youre right Quak, practice does help guys who have never shot those distances before. We had a riot out there on the PDs and other varmints this year.


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## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

Huntsman27 said:


> We had a riot out there on the PDs and other varmints this year.


Cool! I think we're gonna try to head back out there next year.


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