# Should Michigan be a multi-bird state?



## Ieatantlers (Oct 7, 2008)

k9wernet said:


> For those who say "we don't have enough birds now," here's the way I see it:
> 
> A quota is a quota. The DNR sets a certain amount of birds that can be shot in order to keep the population in balance. In some areas, that number is zero, in other areas that number is several thousand.
> 
> ...


Exactly. A quota is a quota, who cares how many people it takes to meet that quota. Adding tags in the fall is the only thing that will hurt populations, because then people can shoot hens. Take out one hen, and there goes an entire hatch the next year. 

People saying there aren't enough birds in the SLP- I have no idea where that is coming from. I hunt 4 different counties in the SLP and birds are everywhere. Maybe you have poachers in the area taking them all out? Or you need to brush up on the calling.:lol:


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

There is no quota for the 234 hunt. So, if 20 million people decided they wanted to hunt, they could. Granted, we'd probably be shooting each other, and not doing the birds much harm at all, but...just sayin...there is no quota on the 234 hunt.

Which for a lot of people is too many, no matter how many there are...

As for the DNR and quotas set for "management"....harharharhar. 

Not enough people are interested in hunting turkeys in the UP for the number of complaints farmers give the DNR about what is, probably, not all that many birds. But these farmers drive the DNR crazy with their complaints, every year, so the DNR's only out is to...crank the tags...then they can say to the farmers that they're trying, and tell the farmers it's THEIR fault because they won't give the hunters access...the same is true of many parts of central and southern Michigan...and the ZZ hunt had might as well be unlimited, too. 

In the meantime, there's entire areas of the state where there probably shouldn't be any turkey hunting at all...but there is, not to mention an unlimited quota hunt.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

> Linda G. said:
> 
> 
> > Not enough people are interested in hunting turkeys in the UP for the number of complaints farmers give the DNR about what is, probably, not all that many birds. But these farmers drive the DNR crazy with their complaints, every year, so the DNR's only out is to...crank the tags...then they can say to the farmers that they're trying, and tell the farmers it's THEIR fault because they won't give the hunters access...the same is true of many parts of central and southern Michigan...and the ZZ hunt had might as well be unlimited, too.
> ...


How bout offering a UP and a LP tag separate? I'd head to the UP for a second bird.


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## MERGANZER (Aug 24, 2006)

A few year ago I would have said yes but I must say something so hear me out and don't jump on me too quickly......okay here goes. Since the supplemental feeding ban took effect the turkeys were hit hard by us up in Newaygo cty. Now I would say no to a one bird limit. A few years ago I would say yes cause there were a lot of birds by us but now they are way doen compared to just a few years back. Those birds need some help some winters. Some winters they are fine without it. JMO

Ganzer


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

> MERGANZER said:
> 
> 
> > Now I would say no to a one bird limit. A few years ago I would say yes...
> > Ganzer


 Do you mean now you would say "no" to "2" bird limit?


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## k9wernet (Oct 15, 2007)

That's pretty pessimistic regarding the quotas/DNR Linda. If you think the quotas are too high, it seems you could take your vast scientific research and knowledge and use it to persuade the NRC.

There are no statewide tags. The entire UP is its own unit under the new regulations (in the fall -- spring units are unchanged). There will be a fall YY unit similar to the spring ZZ unit. And multiple tags.

KW


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

As far as "our vast scientific knowledge", each chapter of MWTHA speaks for its own area-and we do, every year in the fall when they're already considering the next spring's quota on the limited hunts, which they do before they have any idea whether these birds will survive the winter or not. Other states, like Wisconsin, set quotas in late winter...that's much better management, imho. Our winter numbers, which the DNR gets by February (plenty of time to change quotas, but they don't) are then used for that FALL's hunt...before so much as an egg has hatched. 

As for us advising the DNR, as I said...we do. Would be nice if they'd listen. Amazingly, they did, apparently, this spring, when our pretty dismal winter counts came in for Area J. No fall hunt this fall, thank god. 

I was speaking for the lower peninsula, I have no idea what the UP does anymore, but I know it's pretty liberal...doesn't matter how liberal it is or how many tags there are when hunters can't get access to birds on the private lands up there in Menominee and Delta County. So the farmers continue to complain, and the DNR continues to issue huge numbers of tags that never get filled. Spring or fall.


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## EdB (Feb 28, 2002)

Here is another drawback to offering multiple tags. It will hurt the quality of the late hunts. A lot of hunters like the 234 hunt or late general hunts. If you make your picks right, you can almost be certain of drawing a general tag like I do every year but most years they are the 3rd or 4th hunt period. You can have a high quality experience during the late hunts under the current regs. A big reason is more hunters go for the early hunts, get their birds and are done. The turkeys are not pressured every day in the early season and get some time to settle down. 

If they start allowing multiple tags, even in southern Mi with good populations, the quality of the late hunts will degrade because the birds will be under constant pressure during the early hunt periods. 

I don't understand the drive to kill multiple birds. I get more satisfaction calling in birds for others, especially new hunters, and get to hunt just about the entire season. You don't need to pull the trigger to enjoy our long season in MI.


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## michhutr (Jan 16, 2009)

Every season same old I want this I want that. Too cold in April.....too hot in May. State makes it hard to travel around.....to many hunters in my spots busting my set up. I want 2 bird limit....I want unlimited fall birds....Give us over the counter licenses........yada...yada....yada.

We have a great turkey resource in Michigan that is still a quality hunt. Many of the changes that people want will do only two things. One it will make someone happy and others unhappy. Two, It may screw up a system in Michigan that provides a quality hunt. We are so lucky to have the options we have. 

Enjoy it


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## double lung (Sep 7, 2007)

We could probably look to other states to get a pretty accurate estimate of how many more birds we would take if given a 2 bird limit, then make an educated decision from there.

We have excellent turkey hunting opportunities here, and I would hate to see too liberal of a bag limit lessen the quality of our hunt. I would, however, like to see a 2 bird limit if it is reasonable to expcect that, based on year-to-year harvest data from other states when they went from 1 bird to 2 bird limits, that our harvest would not increase to a level that would be detrimental to the quality of the hunt.


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## double lung (Sep 7, 2007)

On a side note, I also realize that killing toms does virtually nothing to the overall population. 

Killing bucks does virtually nothing to the overall deer population, either. 

But it sure is a lot more fun to hunt a population with a good ratio of mature males in it


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## PITBULL (May 23, 2003)

Keep it the way it is. There is no sense letting the DNR screw it up like our "quality" public land Deer hunting.


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## k9wernet (Oct 15, 2007)

I think the reason behind the change is that the DNR would like to see more hens shot in the southern units in the fall to help curb the population in the region. It probably won't affect northern units much.

they understand that guys want to shoot big birds with long beards, so I don't think they'll mess with the spring season. I still think it doesn't hurt to let guys buy multiple tags within the quota if there are leftovers in the spring, but nobody asked me.

Linda -- you make a valid point. Why not petition the NRC and/or the director for a policy change?

KW


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## srconnell22 (Aug 27, 2007)

After reading the quality responses posted, I've come to the conclusion that I think MI should stay the same with the 1 bird limit. 

I also compare this to our deer herd to come to my conclusion. Our current deer tag system allows the taking of two bucks, most of the time using the "mulligan tag." 

I enjoyed hunting and seeing multiple age classes of birds this spring, along with both hens and jakes/gobblers. I think the people who make the rules for deer hunting could look at our incredible turkey hunting resource as guidance. 

1 tag = great resource with diverse composition of the total population.


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## jackbob42 (Nov 12, 2003)

I like the idea of a multi-bird system , BUT ...........

It seems every year there are more and more turkey hunters. So , I'm afraid that it might be OK now. But , what will it be like in another 10 years? We may be shooting ourselves in the foot.

However , for right now , I see no reason why we can't go get another tag as long as there are leftovers for the area.
I'm just afraid that the state might get too addicted to the money and then not cut the tags back when neeeded.


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## Stalker (May 15, 2000)

5 years ago I would have said yes to two tags. Now I am not so sure. There does seem to be alot fewer birds in the section of Isabella county that I hunt. It is hard for me to believe that it is because of hunting. It is mostly private land and few hunters. I believe it is from increased natural predators. I had a bobcat come after my decoy this spring.


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## Playin' Hooky (Aug 29, 2002)

Other states limit hunting to noon or 2 PM. There was an article in Outdoor News last week about PA hunters weighing the option of increased opportunity (longer hunting HOURS) against an increased harvest that will reduce mature bird numbers. (One of the members here has hunted PA, thoughts...?)

I think that we have a good balance here now. I would like to see any multiple tags in the fall season be 1 bearded bird, others hens for population control. There are rumblings in the local ag community about turkey numbers--but access for fall seasons can be difficult because of concerns that turkey hunters will spook the deer. Sounds like does, eh?

10 years ago the fall season offered 2 for 1 tags for Area J to reduce population...now it can be hard to strike a bird up there--away from a bird feeder!


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## k9wernet (Oct 15, 2007)

Playin' Hooky said:


> I would like to see any multiple tags in the fall season be 1 bearded bird, others hens for population control. There are rumblings in the local ag community about turkey numbers--but access for fall seasons can be difficult because of concerns that turkey hunters will spook the deer. Sounds like does, eh?


I've said it a few times already in this thread, but there are changes in place for this upcoming fall season:

1) Availability of multiple tags up to the quota number
2) Longer season starting Sept 15
3) New, consolidated units.

As far as I know it's a done deal. I believe this was approved at the May 6 NRC meeting. Read about it here:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/08-10_FallTurkey_FINAL_4.8_318674_7.pdf


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## Playin' Hooky (Aug 29, 2002)

k9wernet said:


> I've said it a few times already in this thread, but there are changes in place for this upcoming fall season:
> 
> 1) *Availability of multiple tags up to the quota number*
> 2) Longer season starting Sept 15
> ...



K9--I've been following this the past couple of weeks. I know it would be nearly impossible to enforce a 1 bearded bird limit with effectively unlimited YY private land tags--here's hoping those that hunt fall turkeys will exercise restraint on the mature toms and remove the tender young birds and a few of those "problem" hens for purposes of population control. 

"Opportunity" is limited to the birds' location in the ag areas we hunt.
The birds really congregate on a food source and could be exploited by those who so choose.


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## k9wernet (Oct 15, 2007)

Playin' Hooky said:


> The birds really congregate on a food source and could be exploited by those who so choose.


tell that to my friends and me who have been chasing birds around farm fields for the past week or so, looking like a bunch of fools! :sad:

KW


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