# Rubber Roof or Tar Roll?



## Lunker (Aug 27, 2001)

I have a one room roof that had no pitch to drain till i rebuilt it all today with 6 inches of drain or so. The roof is about 12/12 with about inches of drain pitch now. I had rubber roof on before and a metal railing that was lag bolted in. Leaked like crazy and ruined the wood. Im tempted to go with rubber again and railing bolted into the facia now but no gutters can be put on that way.. so... should i go with tar paper and tar roll . What say you?


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## outdoor junkie (Sep 16, 2003)

If I'm reading this right and it is indeed a 12/12 pitch i would shingle it, seeings that is pretty darn steep . But if you are meaning to say it is a very low pitch I would go with rubber, the rolled roofing is junk and don't last. But your problem may have been the rubber/bar system. I never use the bar system instead use a complete glue down rubber job, will last for many many years. I have done probably close to a hundred of them and never had a complaint. And you can get it done in black or for a little more money white.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

If you need the handrail because you intend to walk on it, bite the bullet and have a flat lock (Pittsburgh lap) metal roof installed. It will cost a lot (Guessing about 3 grand for 144 sq ft) but would be the last roof you ever put on there, and it is designed to be walked on.
If you don't intend to walk on it the options are more open. I think you had a typo and didn't state the pitch, but if you are 1/12 to 3/12 you could install a 2 ply peel and stick system with self adhesive base and cap sheets, a five year warranty but easily accomplished by a homeowner.
Other than that an EPDM (Rubber), or APP or SBS (Modified bitumen) would be a good option. they generally offer 10-12 year warranties.


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## Lunker (Aug 27, 2001)

I guess that was the brew and heat talking ..  I meant to say 12 by 12 foot roof and the pitch is now raised about 6 inches to drain away from the house. I m putting all new facia and built the over hang about a foot over all around to keep from splashing the house with that black rubber roof water ( i have white siding) and staining it. There is a door that goes out to this roof and would be fun to put plants out there is the only reason id need a railing at all. But since I have a little one on the way now I think that door is going to be sealed shut for a while and the hamper door traffic will be taking over. If it was just me Id put clear plastic barn siding up there and let some sunshine in...man it looked awesome with no roof.


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## tdejong302 (Nov 28, 2004)

I would go with rubber. Just put rubber on my dormer that didn't have much of a slope (tarred roof leaked). I have used rubber many times and it works great.


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## roger23 (Jan 14, 2001)

rubber is great if installed properly,if not it is junk


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## MPT (Oct 7, 2004)

If I have rubber down already can I put down another layer or rubber or does the old 1 come off? My problem is that the roof leaks between temps of 40 to 50. I'm sure there's a problem between the shingles and the rubber interface.


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## Lunker (Aug 27, 2001)

I went with rubber for now till I can afford to make it a clear roofed sunroom. Found a local guy that had seamless peices so I couldnt pass that up for 90 bucks and went with the mulehide glue and that cellulose board under it with the big coasters/screw combo. Went with no railing so theres no chance of leaking and wont get in the way of gutters.


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## hbongaiii (Apr 13, 2004)

People call different products "rubber." Generally they fall into two different categories:
1. Modified bitumen. This is the product that they sell at Home Depot. It comes in rolls that are 39" x 33' (100 sq. ft.). This product is "TORCH" applied or it can be "mopped" on with asphalt. Both of these applications must be done by "QUALIFIED PROFESSIONALS." Torch applications are inherently dangerous due to open flames. The "mopped" application requires the use of hot tar, which involves a 'hot tar kettle'(one of those stinky things them nasty roofers pulls around on a trailer that drips and oozes hot tar all over the place).

2. EPDM. This is the same material that is used in bungie cords and automobile tires. It comes in different thicknesses (.045, .060, .090) and also reinforced and non reinforced. This is REAL rubber, the one just 'resembles' rubber and is inadvertently 'called' rubber.

EPDM generally is either loose laid or fully adhered. When it is 'loose laid', there is an aggregate (stone) that goes on top of the material to hold it down. 
When it is fully adhered, the whole sheet is 'glued' to the substrate (plywood, insulation, block wall, etc.).
On small jobs such as this, most people go with fully adhered because it is much less labor intensive. Also, the installer only will need to have the necessary 'hand' tools to install the material. 

If you had a problem around the railings, chances are, the last guy you had did not properly install the flashing around them. There are 'field wraps' and there are pre-formed factory wraps. When properly installed, both of these (even on a 2/12 pitch) will last, at least, the warranty length (10-20 years!!). Guys either get lazy and don't flash them properly or (more common than not) they don't know the proper way and they just caulk it or use roof cement to 'seal' it. Both of these ways will last long enough for them to get paid. Unfortunately, the homeowner will have a leak by the next spring (it may not show up for a couple of years after its damaged a good deal of the structure beneath the roof). 

Oh yeah, If you're gonna be spending a lot of time on the roof, there is a product called 'walkway pads' which are specifically made for traffic areas. 

Just remember, "If it seems too good to be true, chances are, IT IS!!"

Just the .02 of a 20 year roofer.
Hank


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## hbongaiii (Apr 13, 2004)

MPT said:


> If I have rubber down already can I put down another layer or rubber or does the old 1 come off? My problem is that the roof leaks between temps of 40 to 50. I'm sure there's a problem between the shingles and the rubber interface.


When you put a layer of rubber over top of another layer of rubber you get 'condensation.' Your roof will leak when its 70-90 degrees and you will be scratching your head wondering "How could this be happening??"

This sounds more like improper installation. 40-50 degrees is when the ice and snow melts. Ice and snow will penetrate areas that rain will not because rain 'flows' with the pitch of the roof. The 'rubber' may not be far enough under the shingles for a water tight seal.


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## Lunker (Aug 27, 2001)

Hbong you called it man! When I peeled the old railing off all they used was caulk and very little of that. Makes me never want to mess with railings again. However they did provide a nice tressel for my grapes and morning glorys and beans and cukes in my garden. i went with .060 thickness and its one seamless peice that i left long enough to glue to the backs of the gutters for a complete water tight fit.


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## mattm (Aug 13, 2005)

Check Versico or Firestone specs, The rubber should slighty overlap into the gutter, then a drip metal should the screwed dow and coverstripped.

Ice buildup in the gutter will work its way under the glue and caused you a headache this winter


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## hbongaiii (Apr 13, 2004)

You can glue it in the gutter but you MUST use a solid bead of water block(also called water cut off) underneath the termination bar. Its sold in caulk tubes and its grey in color. We always used to call it bubble gum, cause that's what its like, bubble gum on a warm summer day (its REAL stringy). 

The termination bar is a piece of aluminum with holes every six inches (its sold in 10' lengths). The term bar must be the entire length of the gutter and you should leave about a 1/2" gap between pieces. The tricky part is gonna be getting the fasteners (screws) into the gutter. A lot of the time, you have to use a right angle drill with a phillips head bit (#3) to get them in. Typically, you'd only need to use 1 1/4" screws.

In the picture, where it says to use 'lap sealant' I always use a good caulk (Vulkem or Solar Seal).

This is a 'typical' detail for most 'single-ply' systems.


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## Highest Bidder (Jul 3, 2008)

I have a PVC type membrane and I love it. I had tried rolled and rubber and both produces way to much heat. It would just melt when you walked on it. Literally stuck to your feet. The PVC is white and does not grab and hold heat. I can walk barefoot in 90 degree heat. It's amazing. It is applied just like rubber and I had my posts right through the deck and put plastic covers over them and have not had leaks yet. (10 years). MAke sure you flash correctly and all leaks should be eliminated. Hope this helps. I'm a believer in the PVC, it's used alot on large commercial roofs.


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## hbongaiii (Apr 13, 2004)

There are two stories that I've heard about how PVC came into business. One, they started out as a gas hose liner and, two, a pool liner manufacturer. They definitely are VERY durable(it is pretty much impervious to chemicals[Even fuel based products]). I know from experience that they will hold a lot of water. I went on a leak call that was a PVC roof that was coming in thru the HVAC ductwork. I went up on the roof and there was standing water almost to the top of the parapet wall (about 16 inches). Upon careful inspection, I found that on one (out of 6) rooftop unit, the installers neglected to put 'water cut off behind the flashing.
One of the drawbacks about single ply roofs that have heavy traffic is this: All it take is one pinprick in the material to cause a leak. I've spent 4 hours trying to track down a leak before. That was me down on my hands and knees inspecting every square inch.


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