# Illegal Tree Stands and Ground Blinds - MDNR Position



## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

This issue (illegal tree stands and ground blinds) was previously posted and received considerable response (19 pages as of April 30, 2017). I posted this reply on page 19 of that thread but I am posting here for the benefit of those who may not want to review the entire original thread. WT
*
These are the questions I emailed in to Mr John Pepin of the DNR on April 20th:*

Subject: Ask the DNR Question

Date: April 20, 2017 at 12:04:42 PM CDT

To: [email protected]


Hi John - I see that there is an “Ask The DNR” program on TV-13 tonight and would like to see some clarification on abandoned tree stands on public property. I have provided the link to a thread on the Michigan Sportsman’s Forum which highlights many of the concerns.


My questions are these:


1) According to the Hunting Law Digest, "Constructed Ground Blinds found on public land prior to Sept 1 or after the end of the deer season will be considered abandoned”. Does this apply to abandoned or illegal tree stands without the owners name on them as well?


2) Does this law apply to Commercial Forest Lands which are open to the public as well?


3) Can a citizen or sportsman’s club lawfully remove an illegal or abandoned tree stand from public property and turn it into the DNR or other law enforcement agency for disposition?


4) Many sportsman have reported these illegal stands, including the GPS coordinates of where they can be located, but they are very seldom, if ever, removed by the DNR. Why is this?

*This is the reply I got from F/Lt Peter Wright of the DNR Law Enforcement Div on April 28th:*

I can help you with your questions:

1. The law refers specifically to just ground blinds as being considered “abandoned”.

2. Commercial Forest lands consist of private property so the restrictions of blinds on public lands within the Wildlife Conservation Act Order (WCAO) do not apply. With that said, many of the large CFA landowners send us letters stating that their policy as to property left on their private land is to mirror what state law says…anything left contrary to it is to be considered as litter. Outside of WCAO there are specific rules that a CFA landowner must follow within the Commercial Forest Act itself. One of these restrictions is that you can’t build a structure on the property. Some blinds can take on the characteristics of a structure based on their size, permanency and design and this can get the landowner crossways with the law.

3. I do not advise anyone outside of a law enforcement agent removing illegal blinds from public land. The best method is to capture gps coordinates (if able) and pictures and send them to the local officer via direct contact, calling the local office or the RAP hotline. 

4. The DNR isn’t typically going to remove a blind from the woods. It’s very time consuming and cost prohibitive and once you seize something, you are responsible for it from then on. The preferred method is to have a conservation officer contact a hunter in the blind, issue a ticket and have them remove it. It may seem like blinds are seldom if ever removed but many contacts are made each fall by officers who ticket and have the offender remove the blind. The sheer volume of this infraction may make it seem like nothing is done but that is not the case. With that said, I understand that some blinds are clearly abandoned i.e. rotting and falling apart and are an eyesore on the landscape and yes, you are correct, it is hard to do much about those.


Officers don’t mind addressing these complaints for a variety of reasons i.e. decreases territorialism, litter and other issues such as over baiting, no license, no hunter orange, cutting of trees…etc. tend to present themselves as well. As always, we depend on our partners within the lawful hunting community to let us know when they come across any illegal activity so we can address it properly .


Thank you for taking the time to pose your questions.


*F/Lt. Peter Wright*

Michigan Department of Natural Resources

Law Enforcement Division 

District 1 Law Supervisor

1990 U.S. Hwy 41 South

Marquette, MI 49855

(906) 228-6561 work

(906) 225-1260 fax

[email protected]


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## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

So basically tough crap?
With that response a person could stake claim to all the best locations just by putting out treestands, they don't need to hunt from them, only put them out because nobody is going to do anything about it. Most hunters that I know will not hunt an area if somebody is already set up, myself included. Maybe some of you guys are right and everything should be removed daily.
I hope that decision doesn't make me pause and maybe look the other way when we see litter on public land.
Guess I need to think about this.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Alan Michaels said:


> So basically tough crap?


Funny how some people read something and see it in a completely different light. I thought the response was encouraging that some cases are actually being handled. I like the idea that some guys are being fined and forced to remove the stands. Who knows maybe the response being posted on a forum like this might make a few people take notice and follow the law.


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## kisherfisher (Apr 6, 2008)

Phone call with GPS #, sounds like a start, you have done something rather than complain on this site.


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## skipper34 (Oct 13, 2005)

wildthing said:


> This issue (illegal tree stands and ground blinds) was previously posted and received considerable response (19 pages as of April 30, 2017). I posted this reply on page 19 of that thread but I am posting here for the benefit of those who may not want to review the entire original thread. WT
> *
> These are the questions I emailed in to Mr John Pepin of the DNR on April 20th:*
> 
> ...


Well here it is in a nutshell. What is possibly here to complain about? This is a very well thought out and informative post. Thankyou, Wildthing.


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## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

I have been calling in the coordinates for several years now, nothing gets done. I've lived this, there is locations where we used to hunt and another hunter put out stands that are never hunted out of to lay claim to the location, and its happened again.
Nope this is a cop out, the stands shouldn't be in the woods after March 1st per WCO.
Should be considered as litter just as much as any other trash that shouldn't be out there and be able to be removed as such.
There are a multitude of sportsman who are willing to help get the trash out of the woods, so maybe they need to either change the rule and label it as abandoned when they haven't been removed and allow sportsman to help or just plain get rid of the rule altogether.
They cant catch a hunter in it if it was never intended to hunted out of in the first place.


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## thill (Aug 23, 2006)

wildthing said:


> This issue (illegal tree stands and ground blinds) was previously posted and received considerable response (19 pages as of April 30, 2017). I posted this reply on page 19 of that thread but I am posting here for the benefit of those who may not want to review the entire original thread. WT
> *
> These are the questions I emailed in to Mr John Pepin of the DNR on April 20th:*
> 
> ...


Thank you for making the effort to get us answers! Appreciate this post!


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## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

Alan Michaels said:


> *There are a multitude of sportsman who are willing to help get the trash out of the woods, so maybe they need to either change the rule and label it as abandoned when they haven't been removed and allow sportsman to help *or just plain get rid of the rule altogether.
> They cant catch a hunter in it if it was never intended to hunted out of in the first place.


Perhaps this could be suggested to the NRC....the MDNR brass....or your state legislator. That is how laws/rules get amended. Until that happens at least we can do what we can to report them to the DNR - especially if you happen to see a violators' truck parked nearby during hunting season. C.O.'s are always happy to write up these types of infractions and just maybe the perpetrator will have to remove his own junk....


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## junkman (Jan 14, 2010)

At least you got an answer and not an opinion.


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## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

wildthing said:


> Perhaps this could be suggested to the NRC....the MDNR brass....or your state legislator. That is how laws/rules get amended. Until that happens at least we can do what we can to report them to the DNR - especially if you happen to see a violators' truck parked nearby during hunting season. C.O.'s are always happy to write up these types of infractions and just maybe the perpetrator will have to remove his own junk....


They cant catch a hunter in it if it was never intended to hunted out of in the first place.

Yep you're right, I'll get started on bitching further up the totem pole.

(is it really larceny if it wasn't supposed to be there in the first place?)


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## Rasputin (Jan 13, 2009)

I noticed that the DNR's is proposing to change the rule on tagging the blind, that you can use driver's license or DNR sportscard number instead of whole name and address. Maybe this will get better acceptance, and then maybe the law can be made different for stands without any identification.


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## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

Rasputin said:


> I noticed that the DNR's is proposing to change the rule on tagging the blind, that you can use driver's license or DNR sportscard number instead of whole name and address. Maybe this will get better acceptance, and then maybe the law can be made different for stands without any identification.


Providing that correct numbers or even numbers at all are used.

If not can we pull them and turn the stands in?


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Alan Michaels said:


> They cant catch a hunter in it if it was never intended to hunted out of in the first place.
> 
> Yep you're right, I'll get started on bitching further up the totem pole.
> 
> (is it really larceny if it wasn't supposed to be there in the first place?)


This is a strawman argument. Nobody is putting blinds in the woods to simply keep someone from hunting there. The law states hanging a stand doesn't give you exclusive rights to the spot so it would be pointless to spend the time,energy,and money to do so for that reason.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

DirtySteve said:


> This is a strawman argument. Nobody is putting blinds in the woods to simply keep someone from hunting there.
> ...........


OMG. That is a totally untrue statement. I know think that you have never stepped foot on any State land and have zero knowledge about this subject.

L & O


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## Tracker83 (Jun 21, 2005)

DirtySteve said:


> This is a strawman argument. Nobody is putting blinds in the woods to simply keep someone from hunting there. The law states hanging a stand doesn't give you exclusive rights to the spot so it would be pointless to spend the time,energy,and money to do so for that reason.


wrong. wrong. wrong. I could take you for a walk and show you a number of stands that have been placed specifically to "mark territory". No, the placement of the stand does not give someone exclusive rights, but the guys doing it know that most hunters will stay away. Whenever the topic of hunting near an already-placed stand comes up on these forums the general consensus is that you are an inconsiderate a-hole that is looking for a fight if you set up near someone else's stand on public property.

The response from the DNR only encourages the practice of placing a stand in an attempt to keep other hunters away.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Liver and Onions said:


> OMG. That is a totally untrue statement. I know think that you have never stepped foot on any State land and have zero knowledge about this subject.
> 
> L & O


I have primarily hunted state land exclusively for most of my life. I see stands all over the place. Some are hunted some are not. Some are back up spots for when a hunter can't hunt his spot due to wind or some other issue. Some are stands placed for use on Tuesday mornings when no one else is around at that location. I have personally hung 4-5 stands and only ended up hunting 1 or 2 throughout the season before. Could be I tagged out early in another spot. Could be I hung two stands for a buddy that couldn't get away to hunt that year. My motivation was never to keep someone from hunting a spot.

To say any stand was put in a specific place for the reason of keeping people away is nothing more than reckless speculation on your part.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

DirtySteve said:


> .......
> 
> To say any stand was put in a specific place for the reason of keeping people away is nothing more than reckless speculation on your part.


So you somehow have hunted public land for a number of years, but are unable to see what is obvious to everyone else. Got it. 

L & O


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Liver and Onions said:


> So you somehow have hunted public land for a number of years, but are unable to see what is obvious to everyone else. Got it.
> 
> L & O



Bottom line is that it doesn't matter what reason that stand was placed there for. It doesn't grant any specific right to anyone. It shouldn't affect how you hunt. To suggest it is an issue is just grumbling over nothing.


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## Tracker83 (Jun 21, 2005)

DirtySteve said:


> I have primarily hunted state land exclusively for most of my life. I see stands all over the place. Some are hunted some are not. Some are back up spots for when a hunter can't hunt his spot due to wind or some other issue. Some are stands placed for use on Tuesday mornings when no one else is around at that location. I have personally hung 4-5 stands and only ended up hunting 1 or 2 throughout the season before. Could be I tagged out early in another spot. Could be I hung two stands for a buddy that couldn't get away to hunt that year. My motivation was never to keep someone from hunting a spot.
> 
> To say any stand was put in a specific place for the reason of keeping people away is nothing more than reckless speculation on your part.


So you have 3-4 stands up in state land that are never hunted even 1 single time during the season? Your posts in this and the other thread now make a lot of sense. You are actively engaged in the practice of spot claiming.


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## skipper34 (Oct 13, 2005)

This is why the DNR has so much trouble during hunting season. They can somewhat manage animals but have a hell of a time managing humans, the ones who can think. The problem will never go away as long as humans are the hunters, no matter how many regs they enact. It's just that simple.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Tracker83 said:


> well, except for the 4-5 spots you've claimed as your own.


The difference in our opinions is that I don't see it as claiming anything as my own. For some reason you see it as I have. I am just using the state land that we all own as we are allowed to. I would gladly concede to anther hunter on any given day at any spot if he was there first......maybe even if I was there first if it was an elderly man or someone with a kid. It doesn't seem like you agree that anyone is able to use it and I just don't get that.


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## MossyHorns (Apr 14, 2011)

Tracker83 said:


> 3-4 stands that are placed on public land and are never hunted. Not once. That's spot claiming.


You can call it what you want, but I call it being prepared! For example, I could have 4 stands set up for each wind direction, but I only got to hunt out of 2 of them because the wind direction was never favorable the times I got to hunt the area. Also, how would you know that somebody has not been using that stand unless you were there every single day to check?



Tracker83 said:


> I pack my stand in and out each sit.


Good for you, but that is not required by law! 



Tracker83 said:


> And when you venture out into state land during labor day weekend to hang a stand you're not going to hunt until November... then, well, you're clearly intending to claim that spot. Not sure why so many are in denial about this.


Again! That's just called being prepared. Not sure why you are in denial about that.


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## mbrewer (Aug 16, 2014)

Liver and Onions said:


> So you somehow have hunted public land for a number of years, but are unable to see what is obvious to everyone else. Got it.
> 
> L & O


Add me to the list of those oblivious to the obvious. 

When does a stand cease being a property marker and start being abandoned? And does it still retain it's potency or is is diminished by some factor that also escapes me.


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## mbrewer (Aug 16, 2014)

jr28schalm said:


> I usually start target practicing if someone's in my seat. Espicaly if my chairs been saving my spot for 5 years...


Best post yet. Guys be trippin


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## Tracker83 (Jun 21, 2005)

mbrewer said:


> How do you tell the difference between a good stand and a bad stand?


It's May. They're all bad.


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## mbrewer (Aug 16, 2014)

Tracker83 said:


> It's May. They're all bad.


Yes, welcome home. No need to mention how long it took you to get here.


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## jjlrrw (May 1, 2006)

If I am out looking for mushrooms this weekend on public land and come across a tree stand with no name or markings and also a $100 bill laying on the ground should I leave both, take both, take only the tree stand or take only the $100?


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

jjlrrw said:


> If I am out looking for mushrooms this weekend on public land and come across a tree stand with no name or markings and also a $100 bill laying on the ground should I leave both, take both, take only the tree stand or take only the $100?


Take only the money for obvious reasons. The stand was left illegally and the owner of the stand deserves a ticket. The money was obviously lost and the rightful owner doesn't deserve punishment.


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## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

This is why I bought my own dirt!!
These posts are unreal!


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## jjlrrw (May 1, 2006)

DirtySteve said:


> Take only the money for obvious reasons. The stand was left illegally and the owner of the stand deserves a ticket. The money was obviously lost and the rightful owner doesn't deserve punishment.


But without a name the owner may never be back and the stand may also be lost.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

DirtySteve said:


> Take only the money for obvious reasons. The stand was left illegally and the owner of the stand deserves a ticket. The money was obviously lost and the rightful owner doesn't deserve punishment.


Any lost property should be turned into the proper authority. If it's not your's, don't take it.
That being said, take the money and sell the stand on Craigslist.


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## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

Everybody who puts mutable stands out for different situations, would you set up if there is already a stand there. That's something I don't do. But maybe that's my problem, maybe I should move over 4 or 5 trees and set up also , that would probably cause a worst problem wouldn't it?
It's not an even playing field when the stands are never removed as required, You can go out at 12:01 am September 1st to set up and never get to the spot before a person who never follows the rules and doesn't remove their stands.


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## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

"It's state land, you got the right to hunt wherever you want. Just go ahead and set up" I was told that years ago by a CO after I reported stand that was left up all year. Yep believe or not, that's what he said.
I wonder if he would have stood by what he said if the situation would have turned violent, probably not, probably would have denied ever saying it. He has never impressed me as being trustworthy.


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## JDHunts (May 23, 2013)

jjlrrw said:


> If I am out looking for mushrooms this weekend on public land and come across a tree stand with no name or markings and also a $100 bill laying on the ground should I leave both, take both, take only the tree stand or take only the $100?


Carry a sharpie, write your name on it, now the stand and the money are yours.


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## MossyHorns (Apr 14, 2011)

JDHunts said:


> Carry a sharpie, write your name on it, now the stand and the money are yours.


And the fine will be yours if caught by a CO with an illegal stand.


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## JDHunts (May 23, 2013)

MossyHorns said:


> And the fine will be yours if caught by a CO with an illegal stand.


With my name on it, its legal.


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## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

In the woods right now its illigal


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## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

What does WCO say?
Is it illegal for it to be in the woods after March 1st?
Or is it illegal using it?
Or both.


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## JDHunts (May 23, 2013)

Alan Michaels said:


> In the woods right now its illigal


I go out in the spring every year with treestands, I scout, hang stand, trim shooting lanes, take stand down, as long as you take it out with you, nothing illegal. This way, I'm all set to go in the fall. Just my way of doing things, I don't like alot of activity around my stands in the fall.


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## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

Do you hunt public land?


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## Tracker83 (Jun 21, 2005)

DirtySteve said:


> It is my opinion that you will never get a rule where a general person can deem something abandoned after a date. If a law enforcement officer isn't allowed to without a judge consent I highly doubt the public ever will.


I still don't understand what the big problem is. I get that certain abandonment procedures have to be followed right now (which seems ridiculous), but it seems like it would be a very simple piece of legislation (or maybe just a WCO through the DNR/NRC) that would deem any stand left after 3/1 to be abandoned property. Period. No court order needed. I don't see this as being some big hurdle to overcome, and I can't imagine any law-abiding sportsman would have a problem with it.


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## jr28schalm (Mar 16, 2006)

They should sell 7 day permits to put a blind on state land...Oh and land owners should get free deer tags


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Tracker83 said:


> Outlawing stands altogether wouldn't be ideal, but a law requiring daily removal of stands would be a HUGE enhancement of the public land hunting experience. I have lobbied for this in the past, and it may be time to do so again.
> 
> I've also thought a stand/blind permit might work. Each licensed hunter is allowed 2 or 3 permits (at a cost). Permits must be affixed to the stand, and any permitted stand found violating rules (screw-in steps, left out after a certain date, trimmed shooting lanes, etc.) would result in revocation of public stand privileges for say 5 years. The WCO establishing a stand permitting system could also declare any stand on public land at any time without a permit to be considered abandoned property.



I would hate to have to remove daily. a guy bowhunting 150 yds away who slips in and out of his stand quietly is quite tolerable. A guy who is hanging climbing sticks and stands 2 hrs before dark would drive me nuts. Or the guy who decides to get down 30-45mins before shooting time is over because he is afraid to walk out in the dark and needs extra time to remove his crap. Daily removal would ruin my experience. Seeing a stand in a tree doesn't bother me. No matter how long it has been there.


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Tracker83 said:


> I still don't understand what the big problem is. I get that certain abandonment procedures have to be followed right now (which seems ridiculous), but it seems like it would be a very simple piece of legislation (or maybe just a WCO through the DNR/NRC) that would deem any stand left after 3/1 to be abandoned property. Period. No court order needed. I don't see this as being some big hurdle to overcome, and I can't imagine any law-abiding sportsman would have a problem with it.


Since the regs are in the WCO it would probably only require a change at that level.


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## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

Who controls WCO?


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Alan Michaels said:


> Who controls WCO?


Primarily the NRC.... with input from DNR divisions, the public, stakeholders...etc.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Tracker83 said:


> I take it you've never camped on public land for a bear hunt? Due to the warm temperature in September we used to always bring an old chest freezer and a generator so that if/when someone in our group shot a bear we could skin it and quarter it and get it cold as quickly as possible. It worked great. If our group left the freezer at the campsite I don't know why it would be treated any different than stands that were left on trees after 3/1. I honestly don't see any difference. Maybe my perspective is warped because I don't leave stands out on public ground. I dunno.


You are really grasping at straws for some sort of scenario here. 

If you include a freezer as part of your camping equipment you would be using a camp permit to camp.on stateland legally. The requirement of the camp permit is that you leave it posted on your site after you leave. This so if you leave something or damage something they know who was camping.

In the scenario you described where you left the freezer behind...... If I was the CO that came across your freezer I would be contacting you for removal and possibly give you the fine if I could. I wouldn't remove it myself. You see scenarios in the dnr reports often where they do investigations on dumping and make the violator remove the trash.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

dead short said:


> Primarily the NRC.... with input from DNR divisions, the public, stakeholders...etc.



Interesting I guess I learned something there. Doesn't it also have to go before our legislature and be passed?


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## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

dead short said:


> Primarily the NRC.... with input from DNR divisions, the public, stakeholders...etc.


So we should ask the NRC about it?


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

DirtySteve said:


> Interesting I guess I learned something there. Doesn't it also have to go before our legislature and be passed?


Not for this.


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Alan Michaels said:


> So we should ask the NRC about it?


Yes, for this regulation they would be the panel in charge of any modifications/changes. People can attend a NRC meeting and get time to speak or write a letter or email to address their concern.


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## Tracker83 (Jun 21, 2005)

Alan Michaels said:


> So we should ask the NRC about it?


Yes!


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## Tracker83 (Jun 21, 2005)

DirtySteve said:


> You are really grasping at straws for some sort of scenario here.
> 
> If you include a freezer as part of your camping equipment you would be using a camp permit to camp.on stateland legally. The requirement of the camp permit is that you leave it posted on your site after you leave. This so if you leave something or damage something they know who was camping.
> 
> In the scenario you described where you left the freezer behind...... If I was the CO that came across your freezer I would be contacting you for removal and possibly give you the fine if I could. I wouldn't remove it myself. You see scenarios in the dnr reports often where they do investigations on dumping and make the violator remove the trash.


Not grasping. This is just one easy real-life scenario. And no, we've never needed a permit where we camp on fed land.

Based on this thread I assume that you: 1) are against sportsmen cleaning up crap left behind by slob campers? and 2) are against rule changes to make it easier to clean up crap left behind by slob campers?


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## Tracker83 (Jun 21, 2005)

DirtySteve said:


> I would hate to have to remove daily. a guy bowhunting 150 yds away who slips in and out of his stand quietly is quite tolerable. A guy who is hanging climbing sticks and stands 2 hrs before dark would drive me nuts. Or the guy who decides to get down 30-45mins before shooting time is over because he is afraid to walk out in the dark and needs extra time to remove his crap. Daily removal would ruin my experience. Seeing a stand in a tree doesn't bother me. No matter how long it has been there.


The pros FAR outweigh the cons.


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## jjlrrw (May 1, 2006)

DirtySteve said:


> The requirement of the camp permit is that you leave it posted on your site after you leave. This so if you leave something or damage something they know who was camping.


I always thought this was a dumb law, any law abiding person is going to leave trash behind "the sign" anyone leaving a pile of trash behind is not going to be leaving a sign with their name on it.


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

Tracker83 said:


> The pros FAR outweigh the cons.


I respectfully disagree.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Tracker83 said:


> The pros FAR outweigh the cons.


You would in the minority. I can't imagine many people would be for losing their right to hunt from a stand on state land or for taking their stand with them daily.


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## MossyHorns (Apr 14, 2011)

DirtySteve said:


> You would in the minority. I can't imagine many people would be for losing their right to hunt from a stand on state land or for taking their stand with them daily.


Fortunately it will never come to that and why should law bidding hunters be punished for the stupidity of others? I have been hunting for over 30 years and probably have only found 5 abandoned treestands.


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## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

dead short said:


> Yes, for this regulation they would be the panel in charge of any modifications/changes. People can attend a NRC meeting and get time to speak or write a letter or email to address their concern.



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Phone: 517-284-6237
[email protected]


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

DirtySteve said:


> ..........
> . To suggest it is an issue is just grumbling over nothing.


Going back to this post from Monday, post # 18.

No, we are not grumbling over nothing. Those of us who wish to find at least a partial solution to the thousands of abandoned stands on public land are the same people that will pick up trash that is left behind by slobs at township, county and state parks in addition to public hunting land.
-To think our COs should be using their time to patrol these abandoned stands is crazy.
-For anyone suggesting that stands should be taken down each day.....that's nuts too.
-The NRC/DNR has the power & authority to change the rules so that starting in early March volunteers can start removing them legally from public hunting areas.
-These rules could be posted at public hunting area parking lots.
-Contacting the NRC seems to be the key. This bad problem is only getting worse because cheap stands($49-$89) have flooded the market the past 10 years and it just easier to walk away from a stand than to make a return trip to the area.

L & O


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## NorthWoodsHunter (Feb 21, 2011)

How do you know someone else hasn't been scouting that land for a few seasons and comes in with a climber to setup in their predetermined tree only to get up and see a stand 75 yards away? 

Happened to me twice this season. Had a spot pegged for good rut movement. No stands up anywhere nearby through mid October. Went in first week in Nov. get up to perch height and see a massive floating tent stand within shouting distance. 

If have a stand I'm leaving in the state land woods now it's in a spot I'm confident only a handful of hunters will make it back to and if they're back there they have their own gear and know what they're looking for as well.


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## Alan Michaels (Mar 21, 2014)

Well if the DNR isn't going to do anything about other hunters locking up prime spots by never removing stands and not willing to allow hunters to remove them during the off months, guess it's now time for me to stop.
Just to old and worn out to look for and scout out alternative prime spots.


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## kisherfisher (Apr 6, 2008)




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## kisherfisher (Apr 6, 2008)

State land , 2016, and that's all I am saying . Takes time, effort .


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## mattawanhunter (Oct 30, 2011)

Very well stated!



Pinefarm2015 said:


> Time is why. From a USFWS survey, the most common reason that hunters drop out (40% of people that no longer hunt) was the lack of free time. The next reasons for why people no longer hunt is family obligations (35%) and work obligations (34%).
> 
> The same reasons why people drop out is why they hunt closer to home too. Time.
> 
> ...


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

skipper34 said:


> Bob, good post. I understand all of that. But it seems to me that if the SLP public lands are what is described, I would think that more hunters who really want to hunt would make arrangements to find public land where there isn't the "combat" scenario which occurs on those SLP lands. I just can't fathom why any deer hunter would want to put up with those headaches as described in these posts.



Because if I have to get up and drive 2+ hours to my hunting spot and then drive 2+ hours back at the end of the day - I'm not going to bother hunting.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

kisherfisher said:


> State land , 2016, and that's all I am saying . Takes time, effort .


Nice buck congrats, next time lose the shades


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## jr28schalm (Mar 16, 2006)

stickbow shooter said:


> Nice buck congrats, next time lose the shades


something out of top gun


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

It was very sunny that day.


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## kisherfisher (Apr 6, 2008)

Prescription Sunglasses,my son lost his other ones . Just glad it was sunny this morning LOL! Sometimes Luck does come into play .


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

I was just kidding around. But I got thinking, if wearing them would get me a buck like that. Sign me up.


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## Dirtyman (Feb 8, 2017)

pescadero said:


> Because if I have to get up and drive 2+ hours to my hunting spot and then drive 2+ hours back at the end of the day - I'm not going to bother hunting.


And right there is what separates the die hards from the casuals. 

Some are willing to go the extra mile and those are the ones who find success no matter where they hunt.


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## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

Dirtyman said:


> And right there is what separates the die hards from the casuals.
> 
> Some are willing to go the extra mile and those are the ones who find success no matter where they hunt.


Yep, I do numerous 90 min drives one way one day trips about 12-14 times a season without blinking...Driving gives me valuable think time about future and pasts hunts..


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## mbrewer (Aug 16, 2014)

Dirtyman said:


> And right there is what separates the die hards from the casuals.
> 
> Some are willing to go the extra mile and those are the ones who find success no matter where they hunt.


That's true but it isn't the die hards that fund resource management, it's the casual mass who do that. Always will be too.


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## jr28schalm (Mar 16, 2006)

sniper said:


> Yep, I do numerous 90 min drives one way one day trips about 12-14 times a season without blinking...Driving gives me valuable think time about future and pasts hunts..


Did you see that pic..lol


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## Dirtyman (Feb 8, 2017)

mbrewer said:


> That's true but it isn't the die hards that fund resource management, it's the casual mass who do that. Always will be too.


So what does that have to do with one not finding it worth it to drive 2 hours to avoid hunting pressure?


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## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

mbrewer said:


> That's true but it isn't the die hards that fund resource management, it's the casual mass who do that. Always will be too.


I'm a little leery with this statement...This might have been true 20-30 years ago...Gonna have to see some true numbers to convince me of this....What defines a true die hard??


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## mbrewer (Aug 16, 2014)

Dirtyman said:


> So what does that have to do with one not finding it worth it to drive 2 hours to avoid hunting pressure?


Not much unless your response implies as I thought it did that motivation level is the determining factor for consideration/value. 



sniper said:


> I'm a little leery with this statement...This might have been true 20-30 years ago...Gonna have to see some true numbers to convince me of this....What defines a true die hard??


I'm not trying to convince you of anything, especially if it involves defining something as subjective as what a true die hard is or is not.


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## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

mbrewer said:


> Not much unless your response implies as I thought it did that motivation level is the determining factor for consideration/value.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to convince you of anything, especially if it involves defining something as subjective as what a true die hard is or is not.


Im just not convinced the novice hunter is running the Michigan deer budget....The budget is more than just licence sale....Any business that has its doors open here in MI because of deer hunting is not up and running because of the 2,3 day a year deer hunter...The serious guys are the ones spending jack on products and such..


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

sniper said:


> Im just not convinced the novice hunter is running the Michigan deer budget....The budget is more than just licence sale....Any business that has its doors open here in MI because of deer hunting is not up and running because of the 2,3 day a year deer hunter...The serious guys are the ones spending jack on products and such..


I guess it boils down to definition of die hard. I consider myself a serious die hard hunter. I also don't think I spend as much on hunting as my friends who come to camp for 3-4 days a yr to have a good time. I am a very frugal guy that prefers to invest my money vs blow it. I do things on the cheap so I can do it all season long. It is a week long vacation to some and they live it up. They are the guys that buy extra luxuries. They visit the bars restaraunts and casinos. They take their deer to a processor and spend $180-200 for processing fees as well as sausage salami and jerky because their wife won't cook venison. 

Don't get me wrong I am not talking down about anyone. Nothing wrong with enjoying hunting at a level were you do it as recreation a few days a year. I have many friends and family that do precisely that and I like everyone of them.


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