# Should the Foote dam coffer be OPEN to FISHING?



## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

What do you guys think? Should fishing be allowed in the coffer at Foote dam? I personally think it should be as far as steelhead. There is almost NO natural reproduction in this river. ALOT of the annual plant goes into the spillway and unproductively spawns. I personally don't think it's worth closing just so we can get a couple wild fish returning among the thousands of fin-clips. I understand the closing during salmon season(though anymore, it probably wouldn't be a big deal to keep it open), but when the steelhead are in the river it should remain open, like from November 15-September 15. I mean, why is it even closed during summer!?, to protect spawning carp?,6-inch smallmouth(SUPER numerous), drum?


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## dinoday (Feb 22, 2004)

Probably not during the steelhead runs. 
A closure from say Aug 31 to Nov 30 would be enough IMO.


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## Adam Peterson (Mar 20, 2006)

do you really think there is enough fish in there een to worry about it? I voted yes and would like to see it open. Dont really see why it is closed anymore like you said anyways. Only fished there a couple times but I really cant see why it would be closed.


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## Bulletproof (Jul 26, 2005)

I would have to agree, but would still err on the side of caution.

Closed from August 31-Nov.15th for salmon.

Closed from April 1st till May 31st for steelhead. Also probably leave some language in the law that would allow for an adminstrative close early if necessary.

The rest of the year keep it open.


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## bombcast (Sep 16, 2003)

I used to (1988-1991) park at the boat launch, hike up, and wade across in front of the floodgate during the summer. I could, with a leap of faith make it to a rock right off the spillway of the coffer. I'd have a crawler rigged under a big slip float with some serious lead, and whip it all the way up to the fast water right below the powerhouse. A couple times in low water I even climbed over the coffer and fished from the small concrete ledge at the base of the far wall. I could, with great care, make it 15-20' above the spillway tight to the far wall. Blew up a 10'6" custom Lamiglas fighting a huge summer-run in the coffer. :lol: Long walk back for a back-up rod. 

Can't tell you how many skammies I hooked in there. It was sick some days. They'd thrash around all over the coffer and most times I'd have to lead them over the coffer. Kinda cool- get 2 fights in 1- in the coffer then in the fast water down below. BTW, not proud of any of this other than maybe my misguided ingenuity. 

You know- that is one river that should have a huge summer-run planting. For sure. I'm talking as big as the Joe. It's just cool enough that they can hang. Not to threadjack too far, but whenever the sky clouded up or it rained in the summer, we'd pop fish in and around the blockhouse run that scooted up from the safety of the meat hole. And the pools below the High banks and further down at 3 pipes always had some fish too. 

Good times.


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## walleyeman2006 (Sep 12, 2006)

it would be different if there was some natural reporduction going on but i cant see why or what difference it would make if the majority of the fish are stocked any way,,,,maybe things will change and some reporduction will happen


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## RIVER LADY (Jun 13, 2005)

Sorry A.S. I had to vote no on this one. 

While there is little reproduction at Grandma's place, she's still an old girl struggeling to keep breathing. Choke Grandma at the throat, and over a period of time, she will eventually die. 

The coffer is way too small. Open fishing at that coffer would lead to nothing less than disaster in every sense of the word. Maybe not right away but, it definatley would contribute to the fact. The sizes are small enough as it is and the numbers are declining, at what I feel, is an alarming rate. Why would we want to contribute anything to those numbers willilngly? 

Just my 2 cents....ok maybe 3 or 4.


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## fishin addiction (Mar 11, 2004)

no for me. I remember the days of shoulder to shoulder when I was younger and guys with big attitudes, and egoes and even bigger snagging hooks yelling "fish on" and proceeding to make lasting impressions on me (not good ones) of how big people fish. It wasnt worth it then nor now, sorry.


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## snowman11 (Nov 21, 2006)

fishin addiction said:


> no for me. I remember the days of shoulder to shoulder when I was younger and guys with big attitudes, and egoes and even bigger snagging hooks yelling "fish on" and proceeding to make lasting impressions on me (not good ones) of how big people fish. It wasnt worth it then nor now, sorry.


Is it any different below the coffer now when they are running? I remember the same thing as a kid, but it was below the coffer.


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## fishin addiction (Mar 11, 2004)

No its still pretty much the same, if they have a run. But lately the runs havent been as good and not as many guys. Still little kids with there "sportsman" dad watching him as they huddle around fires right under the sign that says "no camp fires". Sorry getting off the subject. Closing the coffer is the right thing for the DNR to do, in my opinion. I wish you could still walk it though.


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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

It would atleast be cool, like Bombcast said to get a skam plant and open the spill for that during summer, that would probably be okay to do. I still see the biggest steelhead each year in the AS up in the spill, I watched a monster hen well over 15lbs digging for a week early last May up there, just HUGE. I'm not sure about the salmon snagging. There's not many rippers up there anymore, there's a few, but most of those are up in the white-water or at the end of the rail, rippin' the gravel. Maybe like some people suggested, close it during the peak of each run, then open it the rest of the year.


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## walleyeman2006 (Sep 12, 2006)

i like the idea of a skam run in the summer that would be cool...i never did fish the salmon run up there this year but over the winter ive pulled snag hooks off the bottom in tangled messes of line from the dam all the way back to rhea rd launch..they are even selling those damn things at the dam store...dnr needs to refine the laws and make that crap totally illegal...and bust the people taking foul hooked fish


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

There is plenty of gravel downstream for enough Salmon to spawn on, to produce enough Smolts to sustain their population. Couple that with the absolute crash in baitfish populations in Lake Huron for the last few years, and there is no reason to close the coffer to Salmon fishing. So, let's talk Steelhead.
The Ausable gets above 80 degrees each Summer. It is much too warm to sustain Steelhead parr, so they can spend the necessary year or two in the river before they smolt. In fact, there used to be year-old planted Steelhead in the river all year long - but no more. They die from the warm water. No real natural reproduction occurs in the Ausable, although there is 1 trib which has some. That stream does not produce a lot of Steelhead. I would guess that if people catch unclipped fish in the Ausable, they probably strayed from somewhere else. So, I see no reason to keep the coffer closed for Steelhead. 

Which means (by default) that the DNR should allow people to fish in the pool immediately below Foote dam again. THAT is where the Salmon and Steelhead go, when they make their runs to spawn. THAT is as far upstream as they can get. THAT is where they stay until they either die, or spawn fruitlessly (because the young fish will die) and drop back to the lake. Any way you look at it, almost all Steelhead, and many of the Salmon, are planted. Our license fees pay for them, and we should be able to fish for them. The DNR closed that pool as a concession to a special interest group - Michigan Steelheaders. There was not scientific reason to do so, but they went ahead and did it anyway. So they basically caved to a special interest group, and chose to enforce no fishing laws instead of no snagging laws. 

I would agree that Skamanias should be planted in this river again, except that the temps now get even warmer than they used to. I think those fish would die if they spent any significant time in the river in the heat of mid-Summer. Don't get me wrong - I would love to catch Skams in the Ausable again. They were the most exciting fish I have ever caught. Just not sure it would make sense to plant them. I would love to just catch good numbers of Steelhead in the Ausable again.


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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

I can only imagine how hard a skam would be to land in the AS with all the wood around.....at the dam, probably not too bad. It only seems to hit 80 degrees during a really warm summer, like the last two years. When it's a cooler summer or even somewhat normal, it seems to stay in the 70's. I think steelhead could survive up in the spillway all summer.


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## RIVER LADY (Jun 13, 2005)

ausable_steelhead said:


> I can only imagine how hard a skam would be to land in the AS with all the wood around.....at the dam, probably not too bad. It only seems to hit 80 degrees during a really warm summer, like the last two years. When it's a cooler summer or even somewhat normal, it seems to stay in the 70's. I think steelhead could survive up in the spillway all summer.


A skammie would be the ultimate challenge in that river. You'd definatley have to gain control very quickly. Dang, makes my adreneline pump just thinking about it. :evilsmile


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## chuckinduck (May 28, 2003)

This might be a dumb question, but is the pond above the dam too warm and shallow to create a cool water draw, and is this stretch of the Au Sable too big to even keep it cool? I know they've done it on both Paint Creek in Oakland County, and I believe they did it in Grayling too to keep the rivers cooler? However, both rivers are much smaller in comparison to the big waters downstream


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Yeah, just think of your favorite bottom bouncing spot, anywhere that doesn't get a ton of traffic. Then make it warm out, and throw in a couple thousand LARGE Steelhead, spread throughout the river. They loved the fast riffles late in the day, and first thing in the morning. In October, when the river usually started to cool nicely, they would come in thick after a heavy rain - which would also bring lots of Kings up, which would start spawning. And those Skams would just crush a spawnbag, and tear you up before you knew what was going on.


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## Krull (Mar 29, 2005)

No way. It would invite ridiculous ripping IMO. I know, I know, call the DNR on them. ..... My opinion, if you want to fish for penned up fish, go to a trout pound.


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## 4lbtest (Feb 28, 2007)

Fishin as a kid for salmon in that Cauffer was where I learned about swearin, drinkin, fightin and all kinds of other importnat life skills...I sort of miss it...


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

I can remember a time when there were COs all over the place, and a magistrate was sitting in the parking lot holding court. People were literally paying fines, and going right back to ripping Salmon. But people did that all over the place, back then. It was stupid to ever allow snagging, and it is stupid to not allow legal fishing in that pool. 

I catch plenty of fish in other places of the Ausable. But that is a perfect pool for people to bank fish, with little or no experience. Anyone can fish there and expect to at least hook a fish every day of the year. And since our license fees pay to put those fish there, we should be able to fish for them, instead of wasting that resource. If we cannot fish in that place, then they should install something which will prohibit those fish from getting into that pool. Nothing is gained by having that pool closed to fishing.


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

Yes, it should be opened to fishing again. It was a blast when it was open. That's where you used to find the bulk of the skams when it got a plant and not too mention some very good sized small mouth and browns could be found in the coffer pool.


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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

> No way. It would invite ridiculous ripping IMO


I highly doubt people would be ripping steelhead from the coffer, it would be totally unnecassary. Throw a bag, a spoon, a jig, a waxworm, a fly, you name it up there, it'd get spanked.


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

ausable_steelhead said:


> I highly doubt people would be ripping steelhead from the coffer, it would be totally unnecassary. Throw a bag, a spoon, a jig, a waxworm, a fly, you name it up there, it'd get spanked.



That's no joke. When those steelies were packed in there and it was legal to fish above the coffer, it was like a trout pond some days. I didn't even bother tying up spawn for those trips up there. Run a crawler under a bob and it was go time!


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## dinoday (Feb 22, 2004)

ausable_steelhead said:


> I highly doubt people would be ripping steelhead from the coffer, it would be totally unnecassary. Throw a bag, a spoon, a jig, a waxworm, a fly, you name it up there, it'd get spanked.


 My love for steel was started on that river and right in that coffer 20+ years ago,I'd love for my kids to be able to give it a go there


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## bombcast (Sep 16, 2003)

It should be open. Why have a sanctuary there? I don't get it. If there was natural reproduction, maybe. Even then, the spawning activity in the coffer would be a fraction of the rest of the river.


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## unclecrash (Mar 3, 2007)

I used to get a kick out of going to the couffer with my Dad. Usually didnt fish it. But to watch the guys was just as fun. You would have one guy hook a fish and a couple guys out in the middle would throw over the guy with the fish on line and before you new it the fight was on and the cussing started. Usually the guy with the heaviest test line won.


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## Chuck1 (Dec 16, 2002)

It should be open. Especially outside of salmon season. There are alot of species that hang out up there in the summer. I went around the fence once,and dropped down the aqua view. Try it......:SHOCKED:


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## fishin addiction (Mar 11, 2004)

> 4lbtest Fishin as a kid for salmon in that Cauffer was where I learned about swearin, drinkin, fightin and all kinds of other importnat life skills...I sort of miss it...


Gotta love that for a first post. Welcome to the site.


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## scale (Feb 6, 2003)

I would like to see it opened. It would also give the rippers from the High Banks another area to perfect the Earth Shatterring Hookset at the end of EVERY drift. 
Personally, I don't see any reason to close any fishing area because its "too good". If there is no natural reproduction I say open it.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Okay, so the general consensus (of everyone who agrees with me):lol: ; is that this pool should be open to fishing. So now, what can anyone do to make that happen? Here is the answer.

Contact your State Legislators. You have to contact people who you can actually vote for, or else they probably won't give you much consideration. Call them and email them, and let them know the reality of the situation - that closing that pool has virtually no impact on the amount of naturally reprouced Steelhead and Salmon from the Ausable River. Let them know that this spot was designed for recreational use, and was used by many people for many years, safely and with respect. You can even compare it to other similar dams, where it is legal to fish right up to the actual dams - Muskegon (Croton dam); Manistee (Tippy Dam); and Thunder Bay (9th St dam) are just a few examples. Let them know the pros and cons of having this water open to fishing, and ask them to work to get it re-opened. 

If you have a vacation/second home in that area; you should be able to get the ear of the Legislators in the area you own in. 

This is what the Michigan Steelheaders did to get this water closed. I will tell you that they worked with the DNR to get this accomplished, and I have had more than a couple COs tell me that this pool will NEVER be open to fishing again. They have an ignorant bureaucratic mentality, but they hold the power; or at least some of it. If anyone wants to start a grass-roots effort to lobby for this, I will be glad to participate and perhaps coordinate to some extent. 

That pool is pretty much where most of the migtatory fish which run the Ausable end up. Sure some of them post up downstream and never make it to the dam. But a very large percentage do make it that far, and we should be able to fish for them.
In the Summer time, you can catch as many HUGE Carp up there as you want to spend time fishing for. I used to have days where I could hook a Carp on every cast, and the average size had to be close to 20 pounds. It was very frustrating, because I was usually trying to get Skams to bite. I had an awesome day of catching Channel Catfish one time, too. Someone told me that the limit was 50, and I got scared; because all the fish I was catching were at least 6#. I hooked 9 Steelhead in 10 casts up there one day, when the Salmon run was peaking. I lost every single one, but they were fun to have on the end of my line.


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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

I would totally help open the coffer up 100%! By the way, a few skams MAY still stray up the AS. Two years ago, I was up there every weekend walleye fishing and would always stop at the dam. Every time I looked, from late June to early August, I'd see a couple steelhead. Sometimes they'd have a green back, sometimes a brown back. They disappeared during a heat wave in mid August, but were spotted again when it cooled back down in early September. I didn't go up there much last summer, so I never checked the coffer for them. I also think a few of the really late spring fish, mainly the ones you see in mid-June, end up staying up there till fall, then dropping out when the water cools.


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## Krull (Mar 29, 2005)

scale said:


> I would like to see it opened. It would also give the rippers from the High Banks another area to perfect the Earth Shatterring Hookset at the end of EVERY drift.
> Personally, I don't see any reason to close any fishing area because its "too good". If there is no natural reproduction I say open it.
> 
> My question is who said fishing was supposed to be easy? That is why it is fishing and not catching. As sportsman doesn't the enjoyment come from the chase and more importantly the environment surronding the fishing opportunity. In my eyes, natural reproduction should have nothing to do with this debate. Steelhead and Salmon are one of the few fish that do not enjoy any closed season, so if the DNR wants to offer Sanctuary to a few fish that managed to make it 10 miles up the Ausable to a 100 ft x 100 ft area, dodging approximately 10,000 treble hooks on the way and jumping up a small wall to get there, so be it, but that is just my opinion. Opening up that area would increase the yahoo factor 10 fold, and in my opinion make fishing the nearby areas of the dam even more intolerable than it already can. Did I mention the kids? Do we really want to expose the kids to the type of combat fishing that would occur in the area as what steelhead fishing is all about?


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

I could agree to keeping that pool closed, as long as the migratory fish were blocked from entering it. That way everyone could fish for all the fish our license fees paid to plant; and which lived to return. As it stands, literally thousands of game fish enter that pool, and nobody is allowed to fish for them. It isn't a matter of it being easy fishing, or it being difficult to catch fish elsewhere. It is a matter of not even being able to cast a line for all those fish. It would be like fencing in an area of public land, where Deer could go during hunting season, and nobody could shoot them there. How much sense would that make? 

If it was impossible for fish to get into that pool, they would drop back and spread out downstream, and people would be able to fish for them in other places. That would make a lot of sense.


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## buck11pt24 (Mar 11, 2007)

If there is no natural reproduction then why were the 5 of the 7 steelies my brother and I caught last Friday natural? Keep it closed. Thats my opinion.


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## on-the-hunt (Feb 25, 2007)

i remember when it was open, I was just a kid then. My dad wouldn't let me go up there with all the yahoo's snaging fish and bringing them down the break. If the fish make it that far up the river, give them a break. There are plenty of honey hole's on this river, you just have to put in the time. Fishing by the dam in the peak of the run still brings on challenges with some of the yahoo's, especially the one's bugging to use your net. I could only imagine the crowd's if they opened up the coffer.


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## unclecrash (Mar 3, 2007)

buck11pt24 said:


> If there is no natural reproduction then why were the 5 of the 7 steelies my brother and I caught last Friday natural? Keep it closed. Thats my opinion.


Exactly I with you maybe with it being closed the fish can do there thing and not be disturbed while there spawning. Instead of the male being ripped off the nest about the time he needs to be there to fertilize the eggs. They sure wont be as much natural reproduction if everybody is up there ripping them off the nests. Maybe thats why they go there because of the extra oxygen that might help in the spawning of there eggs. Some people just are too lazy to do a little walkin around to find a good hole. Want every thing handed to them on a silver platter.


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## walleyeman2006 (Sep 12, 2006)

im sure some of those fish are true wild fish but many fish with no fin clips have been planted...just wondering if thats what your catching


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## limige (Sep 2, 2005)

80 degrees in the summer, are you joking? i have never felt that river even remotely warm, but then i haven't spent much time there in awhile.

is foote dam a top draw? if so i think they should spend the money to make it a bottom draw, it would make a huge difference.

i remember when the coffer used to be open, we would catch rock bass in there like mad! do i think it should be re-opened, no not really, you've got the rest of the river to fish, why do you need to be in that short stretch, let the fish have some space. the ausable doesn't have flies only sections or anything like that just the coffer.

instead of trying to fish every last fish out why don't you think more about what could be done to make it a better river to sustain the fish we like to catch. many dnr plans don't happen because they don't have the money to pay for things that need to be done, volunteering, donating and things you can do to help out. all people serious about the sport should be in some local groups like the steelheaders, trout unlimited or something, just to help your voice be heard, stay on top of current topics and help get some money flowing where it will help. instead of complaining try taking a positive approach.

thats my .02


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

The Ausable gets up to 80 degrees every Summer, and there are ZERO Steelhead parr in there, in the heat of Summer. There used to be small planted Steelhead which would spend the entire Summer in the river, but that has not happened in at least 10 years. The river used to have more flow, and used to stay cooler in Summer, which allowed a few fish to reside there and not be killed by the high temps. So there truly is no viable natural reproduction in the Ausable. There is a single trib of the Ausable, below Foote Dam, and a trib of that trib does stay cold, and does have some natural reproduction of Steelhead (and a resident wild Trout population), but it does not add 1000's of Steelhead to the plants the Ausable gets. 

I cannot say why there would be wild fish in the Ausable, other than the fact that Steelhead stray a lot; and there are some other streams in that general area which do support some natural reproduction. 

Since the Ausable doesn't support natural reproduction, it makes no difference if wild or planted fish spawn - the resulting parr will not survive in the river for a year before they smolt, which is what Steelhead need to do. I can appreciate that people feel that the fish should be allowed to spawn in peace, but science does not support that feeling at all. Essentially all those fish are there for people to fish for and catch, and that is the best utility of that resource. Prohibiting people from fishing for, and catching Steelhead, in the place where most of them want to get to, is silly and counter-productive. 

The DNR stopped clipping fins on Steelhead, last year, I believe. If people are catching Skippers - Steelhead which are returning before they are mature; then it is likely that the are catching planted fish which simply were not fin clipped. In another year, nobody will know if a fish was hatchery raised, or naturally spawned. There really isn't a ton of difference, as all of our hatchery fish come from wild parents from the Little Manistee River.


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## retiredsailor (Feb 25, 2007)

We camped at Old Orchard 2 years ago. Still great campsite. But, I hadnt been there in 20 plus years while in the service. What happened to all the perch we used to catch? I was disappointed for the kids sake. Any luck there, a guy caught a huge bass and had a photo at the DAM store that weekend.


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