# DNR Donates 460lbs of poached salmon



## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

sureshot006 said:


> Wrong is wrong and I completely agree with their prosecution.
> 
> Just need to ask because I honestly don't know. Pretty ignorant on this subject. At that stage of their life cycle are they still spawning? Or are those fish done and rotting alive? After a certain date, why can't fishermen take all the zombie boots they want?


It's not how the law reads.


sureshot006 said:


> Yeah I'm just curious what use they still have in the ecosystem to justify staying at a 5 fish limit.


Nutrients.


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## deagansdad1 (Jan 27, 2021)

Swampbuckster said:


> I couldn't fathom planning an entire multi day trip driving all the way from Colorado with $5.00 a gallon gas to snag a bunch of zombie salmon to bring home to your friends and family eagerly awaiting those white mushy filets....... Wait, is pot legal there too?


They were jus doing what most locals do up there, jus got caught is the only difference. As much time as I've spent on the salmon rivers in my life, more than half the anglers I have encountered are lining, flossing, blatantly snagging, or they jus get a bite at the end of every drift lol. This year I saw the most trying to catch then legit, but still a ton of the norm.

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## salmon_slayer06 (Mar 19, 2006)

not one for snitching unless its harassing other people, preventing others from fishing, causing property damage etc. salmon get snagged day in day out this time of year thats just how it is. keep er moving mind your own. again threatening others, destroying property littering, etc that's different.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

I want to see the names......... I know a few guys from Detroits lower east side who moved to Colorado in the late 70's/early 80's and come back every year to pillage the Betsie and Manistee. We grew up fishing when snagging was legal and they just never got past it. I went to join them once many years ago, decided I wanted no part of their antics.


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. The CO's got a hanging curve and crushed it. Glad they could donate the meat.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Nostromo said:


> It's not how the law reads.
> 
> Nutrients.


It's not how the law reads? Who are you, captain obvious? Lol duh, we know that.


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## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

sureshot006 said:


> Yeah I'm just curious what use they still have in the ecosystem to justify staying at a 5 fish limit.


The reason that salmon die after spawning, as I understand it evolutionary, is because the nutrients contained in their bodies will still be in the rivers and it provides a huge head start to their fry. So there's that. 

Also, everything else alive that depends on the rivers, be it other fish, eagles, yotes, bears, mink, bumblebees, etc eats from the carcasses. The dead salmon play a major part in the overall river ecosystem in that way as well. 

Now, as to your earlier contention about loosening the rules at a certain stage of the salmon life cycle, it would be impossible to enforce because fresh salmon enter the system daily and a lot longer into the season than many would expect. 

I've always held the belief that the balanced position could be to allow snagging and a higher take toward the end of the run, maybe for a week or two and maybe just at terminus dams like Tippy, because in my opinion, humans that want and will eat that meat have just as much a right to it as the crayfish and raccoons - moreso considering that we planted the salmon into the Great Lakes in the first place. However, the ugly visual of snagging will likely never be acceptable to the general public and therefore it's a moot debate to have (even though, as I've said 1000 times, flossing is just couthe snagging).

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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Macs13 said:


> The reason that salmon die after spawning, as I understand it evolutionary, is because the nutrients contained in their bodies will still be in the rivers and it provides a huge head start to their fry. So there's that.
> 
> Also, everything else alive that depends on the rivers, be it other fish, eagles, yotes, bears, mink, bumblebees, etc eats from the carcasses. The dead salmon play a major part in the overall river ecosystem in that way as well.
> 
> ...


I can buy into the body feeding the ecosystem. That makes complete sense. I cannot buy the argument that there might be a few stragglers we need to "save". You know there is a "bell curve" of sorts to this and the tail end is going to be negligible. I'm not saying loosen rules for specific fish because it can still spawn. I'm talking a date for all of them. Like closing rivers to walleye fishing.


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## Krystalflash (Nov 26, 2021)

$4,630.00 just doesn’t cut it….that amount of fish get taken in less than ethical fashion ever hour of every day in the fall. It’s the license thing and the arrogance. Travel that far with the pure intent of poaching and can’t even muster up at least a daily licence… entitlement at its finest. Gear and vehicles should have been seized and donated to family’s…walk back to Colorado for all I care. IMO its not about the fish…it’s the act.


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## AdamBradley (Mar 13, 2008)

Macs13 said:


> The reason that salmon die after spawning, as I understand it evolutionary, is because the nutrients contained in their bodies will still be in the rivers and it provides a huge head start to their fry. So there's that.
> 
> Also, everything else alive that depends on the rivers, be it other fish, eagles, yotes, bears, mink, bumblebees, etc eats from the carcasses. The dead salmon play a major part in the overall river ecosystem in that way as well.
> 
> ...


I mildly agree. However its the bycatch that sickens me. I’ve seen some beautiful chrome steelhead come in sideways or tail first, along side a couple of massive lake run browns. That’s really the only reason I’ll never get behind a push for it.

you can catch as many of these things as you want with pretty limited learning.
Ive had a group watch me get into them pretty good floating skein many years back while they ripped holes with ticklers with nothing to show. They stopped snagging, walked over shocked I was getting them to bite, and genuinely interested in learning. Coached them thru what I was doing, showing them how to mend/keep a good drift, and sure as hell, hooked and netted one in that “coaching drift”. They were in disbelief. It was really cool seeing the same exact group the next year, maybe it was 2 years later, completely different gear and skein, fishing legit and hooking fish. They recognized me and came over and thanked me.

I mind my own when I see it, it happens. But, I will always take the time to show any group like that what I know when asked.


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

sureshot006 said:


> It's not how the law reads? Who are you, captain obvious? Lol duh, we know that.


Come on now. I'm only obvious when it's absolutely necessary.


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## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

AdamBradley said:


> I mildly agree. However its the bycatch that sickens me. I’ve seen some beautiful chrome steelhead come in sideways or tail first, along side a couple of massive lake run browns. That’s really the only reason I’ll never get behind a push for it.
> 
> you can catch as many of these things as you want with pretty limited learning.
> Ive had a group watch me get into them pretty good floating skein many years back while they ripped holes with ticklers with nothing to show. They stopped snagging, walked over shocked I was getting them to bite, and genuinely interested in learning. Coached them thru what I was doing, showing them how to mend/keep a good drift, and sure as hell, hooked and netted one in that “coaching drift”. They were in disbelief. It was really cool seeing the same exact group the next year, maybe it was 2 years later, completely different gear and skein, fishing legit and hooking fish. They recognized me and came over and thanked me.
> ...


That's great and that's the culture that I usually see when I'm up there - nice, helpful guys like yourself that love to share knowledge. This year, I was pleasantly surprised to have not run into any blatant snaggers (I didn't fish Tippy this year) and I saw people having tons of success with light flossing rigs. I met a group of 18 year old guys and bead rig, single hook set ups was all they were even familiar with (and they were KILLING it and one of their group had never salmon fished before). In part, I see it as a positive effect of YouTube. The anglers with big followings do it this way (or with skein) so that's what the young guys are learning. 

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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

sureshot006 said:


> I can buy into the body feeding the ecosystem. That makes complete sense. I cannot buy the argument that there might be a few stragglers we need to "save". You know there is a "bell curve" of sorts to this and the tail end is going to be negligible. I'm not saying loosen rules for specific fish because it can still spawn. I'm talking a date for all of them. Like closing rivers to walleye fishing.


Not nearly as important in Michigan as it is in the sterile waters of Alaska. We have a forage base! Minnows, crawdads and nymphs.


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

I hope the needy families need some fertilizer for their garden.


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## jr28schalm (Mar 16, 2006)

Steve said:


> I hope the needy families need some fertilizer for their garden.


Guess we should be discing them in our sand plots


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## cowboy48098 (Aug 20, 2015)

Nobody, no laws and no politicians are going to stop poachers. Always have and always will be poachers. Kind of like guns.


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## TriggerDiscipline (Sep 25, 2017)

Swampbuckster said:


> Perhaps it was a yearly event and finally caught up to them this year.


I guess, but they cleaned and filleted some of them. Yuck! I can't imagine willingly eating those fish, let alone traveling here from hundreds of miles away for the privilege. Most of my traditions are enjoyable.

Maybe these guys run sled dog teams or something. Those fish would be great for feeding dogs, and huskies eat a lot. That's the only explanation that makes sense to me.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

My only questions is, what did they do with all the loose eggs?


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## John Hine (Mar 31, 2019)

Honestly tho, if your family was truly hungry, (not like “I need another doughnut for my 60lb overweight fat ass” hungry” ),you’d welcome the nutrition. Canned & served in multiple healthy dishes, most wouldn’t be able to tell what stage of life the fish was in at time of harvest. Those fish are black, not white yet. Still edible. Again, prolly wouldn’t slap a filet in a pan but canned & used in dips, soups & patties, they’d be fine. If you know real hunger, you know what I mean!


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## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

John Hine said:


> Honestly tho, if your family was truly hungry, (not like “I need another doughnut for my 60lb overweight fat ass” hungry” ),you’d welcome the nutrition. Canned & served in multiple healthy dishes, most wouldn’t be able to tell what stage of life the fish was in at time of harvest. Those fish are black, not white yet. Still edible. Again, prolly wouldn’t slap a filet in a pan but canned & used in dips, soups & patties, they’d be fine. If you know real hunger, you know what I mean!


You're exactly right. I've said it on so many different threads, but for the most part my enjoyment of Michigan salmon, whether it's been a shiny dime coho or an end of run Chinook, has been dependent on the preparation. I don't expect sushi quality (even if I do use it that way at times) but even white fleshed salmon fry up good. 

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## Ricky Bubbles (Apr 1, 2019)

salmon_slayer06 said:


> keep er moving mind your own.


Nah. If I see something I'm going to say something. The snaggers _are_ the same folks who dump litter, leave wads of line and beer cans behind, cause fights, etc. Don't need them coming in from out of state to wreck our natural resources as well - we have enough of those lowlifes here already.


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## Ricky Bubbles (Apr 1, 2019)

RHRoss said:


> Part of the fine/sentence should be cleaning up trash on the River they were caught on


That's a great idea. Make them wear clown costumes too.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

John Hine said:


> Honestly tho, if your family was truly hungry, (not like “I need another doughnut for my 60lb overweight fat ass” hungry” ),you’d welcome the nutrition. Canned & served in multiple healthy dishes, most wouldn’t be able to tell what stage of life the fish was in at time of harvest. Those fish are black, not white yet. Still edible. Again, prolly wouldn’t slap a filet in a pan but canned & used in dips, soups & patties, they’d be fine. If you know real hunger, you know what I mean!


They would have to be STARVING to DEATH


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

Ricky Bubbles said:


> Nah. If I see something I'm going to say something. The snaggers _are_ the same folks who dump litter, leave wads of line and beer cans behind, cause fights, etc. Don't need them coming in from out of state to wreck our natural resources as well - we have enough of those lowlifes here already.


Im no snitch either, but like ya said, if i see it iusually give them a bunch crap over it


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

Macs13 said:


> You're exactly right. I've said it on so many different threads, but for the most part my enjoyment of Michigan salmon, whether it's been a shiny dime coho or an end of run Chinook, has been dependent on the preparation. I don't expect sushi quality (even if I do use it that way at times) but even white fleshed salmon fry up good.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Try one of them Zombies once, you will never do it again, the meat gets blood soaked and very tough


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

I can taste the death in them...


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

A Buddy of mine got me to smoke one for him once, i tried to warn him, the meat was blood red and it was like leather and pretty nasty. learning experiance for him


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## brianlc39 (Jan 27, 2013)

AdamBradley said:


> I mildly agree. However its the bycatch that sickens me. I’ve seen some beautiful chrome steelhead come in sideways or tail first, along side a couple of massive lake run browns. That’s really the only reason I’ll never get behind a push for it.
> 
> you can catch as many of these things as you want with pretty limited learning.
> Ive had a group watch me get into them pretty good floating skein many years back while they ripped holes with ticklers with nothing to show. They stopped snagging, walked over shocked I was getting them to bite, and genuinely interested in learning. Coached them thru what I was doing, showing them how to mend/keep a good drift, and sure as hell, hooked and netted one in that “coaching drift”. They were in disbelief. It was really cool seeing the same exact group the next year, maybe it was 2 years later, completely different gear and skein, fishing legit and hooking fish. They recognized me and came over and thanked me.
> ...


Same thing happened with a good friend of mine.. Salmon fishing in the river consisted of ripping and lining. 

Said he was watching YouTube videos of salmon fishing ,where they were using bobbers & skein and decided to call a guide to show him how it’s done.

Other than throwing the occasional hot n tot out, that’s his main technique, and catches far more fish than lining & ripping ever did.

I think snagging is more of a learned behavior, passed down from the “old” days when it was thought that salmon didn’t bite in the rivers. I know a lot of guys that started out that way and passed it on to the next generation.




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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

I started out snagging years ago then switched to c&d then switched to a fly rod. I don't catch as many fish but it is more fun. I also taught my kids to do the c&d .


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## Ricky Bubbles (Apr 1, 2019)

RHRoss said:


> Im no snitch either, but like ya said, if i see it iusually give them a bunch crap over it


I'd rather not risk getting my bell rung, or worse, from some half-drunk yokels and just let the DNR deal with it. Getting a nice fine or your license revoked will probably increase the likelihood you'll think twice over than some random guy calling you an *******.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Salmon have always attracted the criminal element


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## gatorman841 (Mar 4, 2010)

sparky18181 said:


> Great job by our CO s. Glad the fish werent wasted.


I agree , keep that scum away from our resources. Excellent work


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

John Hine said:


> Honestly tho, if your family was truly hungry, (not like “I need another doughnut for my 60lb overweight fat ass” hungry” ),you’d welcome the nutrition. Canned & served in multiple healthy dishes, most wouldn’t be able to tell what stage of life the fish was in at time of harvest. Those fish are black, not white yet. Still edible. Again, prolly wouldn’t slap a filet in a pan but canned & used in dips, soups & patties, they’d be fine. If you know real hunger, you know what I mean!


Yep. Could theoretically put enough seasoning on a cat turd and it would taste fine lol


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## jr28schalm (Mar 16, 2006)

sureshot006 said:


> Yep. Could theoretically put enough seasoning on a cat turd and it would taste fine lol


Canned cat food and mayo never know it's not tuna


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

jr28schalm said:


> Canned cat food and mayo never know it's not tuna


I understand the "going to good use" idea of this thread but in a way it's like "hey, we have some moldy bread left over here to feed the less fortunate. It's the best we can do..."


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## Ricky Bubbles (Apr 1, 2019)

Shoeman said:


> Salmon have always attracted the criminal element


What is it about salmon specifically?? Why not steelhead too?


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Dunno? Maybe 'cause it's too cold for those Southern Boys??? Used to be mostly FIPS and FOPS setting up camp


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

John Hine said:


> Honestly tho, if your family was truly hungry, (not like “I need another doughnut for my 60lb overweight fat ass” hungry” ),you’d welcome the nutrition. Canned & served in multiple healthy dishes, most wouldn’t be able to tell what stage of life the fish was in at time of harvest. Those fish are black, not white yet. Still edible. Again, prolly wouldn’t slap a filet in a pan but canned & used in dips, soups & patties, they’d be fine. If you know real hunger, you know what I mean!


I've consumed more than my share of river Kings over the years, although I haven't eaten any in a very long time. They are nasty, and probably not overly nutritious by the time they are done spawning. Why someone would drive to MI from CO, and spend money to stay here, to catch all those boots, is a complete mystery to me. For half the price they could buy great jet-fresh Alaskan Sockeye Salmon, and have something good to eat - without leaving CO. And why weren't all those nasty Kings fileted? 

But for someone who is hard pressed to feed themselves, or their family, they can have all the boots they want. Hunger can be a terrible thing.


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## deagansdad1 (Jan 27, 2021)

RHRoss said:


> Try one of them Zombies once, you will never do it again, the meat gets blood soaked and very tough


Pretty easy to bleed them and avoid this. To each their own. 

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## triplelunger (Dec 21, 2009)

maybe they can throw in some muffin stumps


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## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

RHRoss said:


> Dude, I ain’t talking clean fish, I’m talking fish that have turned, I didn’t just start fishing these things a couple years ago, been doing this for 40 years, if you wanna eat them, go ahead. I ain’t no kid, and don’t need to be scolded as such!


Appreciated, but what does that have to do with anything in this thread? ****heads got busted. Needy families got meat. Hurray for all involved. Where is the need to insult and denigrate the quality of meat? That's all I've been saying. It's in the eye of the beholder. If you don't like it, great; don't eat it and shut tf about those that are happy with it. That's all. 

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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

Macs13 said:


> Appreciated, but what does that have to do with anything in this thread? ****heads got busted. Needy families got meat. Hurray for all involved. Where is the need to insult and denigrate the quality of meat? That's all I've been saying. It's in the eye of the beholder. If you don't like it, great; don't eat it and shut tf about those that are happy with it. That's all.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Your right, the quality of the fish don’t have anything to do with some jackass poachers. I won’t eat it, because it’s not fit for eating. It’s a shame that any family is needy, don’t hope that for any, also a shame that they would have to eat them also.


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## Cork Dust (Nov 26, 2012)

Much of what you guys are saying is why I have often questioned why Steelhead got switched from Salmo genus to Onchorhynchus. When you look at the distribution in native habitats in the Pacific Norhtwest they spawn in the same streams that Pacific salmon spawn in, both leaving after smolting to spend most of their lify cycles in the open ocean. Did you know that rainbows in the streams and rivers the empty into Bristol Bay-many of which are long and more fertile tributaries- do not leave their natal streams and remain within these systems? 



Shoeman said:


> Yes, drop backs are ferocious feeders, but the quality of the meat somewhat compromised


Spawning takes a large physiologic toll on them with many developing Saprolegnia sp. infections that indicate their immune systems are significantly compromised. Right now, based on the recent otolith based studies that mapped their microchemistry content in wild and hatchery steelhead, about 42% of the Lake Michigan based population is composed of wild fish, with the remainder composed of hatchery fish. When the Lake Michigan hatchery stock was analyzed for natal stream origin, fish reared at the Thompson Creek Manistique) and Wolf Lake Hatcheries and rearing facilities had highest survival levels among all facilities basin wide. Both of these hatcheries are hardwater rearing systems and use wild stock from the the Little Manistee as the brood stock. Abput 24% of the steelhead stock in Lake Michigan was old enough in 2021 to not have an adipose clip for hatchery fish. This year, that value is just over 11%, giving you an idea of how many fish die after spawning or ar caught by anglers. 



Rando Wilson said:


> And unlike salmon, steelies continue to actively feed while in the river (not much during their actual spawning cycle) but once they are done with that they really put on the feed bag. Sure the rigors of spawning takes its toll but they are actually replenishing their body during the process.


The principal reason salmon don't feed much once they enter the tributaries is tied the the reality that their digestive tacts begin to atrophy about the time they get dark and near spawning The same hormonal changes that cause enzymes to start to break down ovarian tissues, enablin eggs to fall free into the peritoneum to be expelled during spawning play a role in causing this tissue breakdown as well.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

RHRoss said:


> I’m not talking about stress, I’m talking the natural cycle of life to the species, Steelhead do not naturally die off after spawning. Salmon spawn once and die and that’s a fact, Steelhead can spawn a few or more times in a life cycle.


Can, and Do, are two different things. You seem to have it in your head that Steeelhead just do not die after they spawn. And that is simply wrong. A lot of post-spawn Steelhead do die. A whole lot. Fishing pressure aside, approximately 60% of post-spawn Steelhead die from the stress of spawning. And that_* is*_ the natural life cycle of Steelhead, in the Great Lakes. How many Fall-run Steelhead do you catch that have ragged fins from spawning the previous Spring? Browns?, yes. Atlantics?, absolutely. Steelhead with healed ragged fins from spawning previously are rare. It is less common for hen Steelhead to spawn twice or more, than it is for them to spawn just once.


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

I remember being mildly annoyed when Oncorhynchus came along, they’d always been salmo to me. But, taxonomists have jobs, too. Back when Darwin got the ball rolling he used the best information he had at his disposal and that led to a lot of things with similar characteristics getting lumped closer together than they should. A while back (40? 50? years) science had come far enough that a lot of things started to get corrected. The renaming to Oncorhychus was one of those things and it includes several fish we call trout; Apache, Cutthroat, Gila, Golden and Rainbow. We call a lot of fish trout that aren’t, heck, they might not even be salmonids. Some of them have populations that run to lakes or the ocean and return to rivers to spawn, some stay in rivers their whole lives and some never leave the big water. The spawning habits of salmonids isn’t much of an indication of their relationships to each other.

Oh, and as for the poachers this thread is about - blank ‘em. I can make room in my heart for a guy with hungry kids at home, not a guy who can afford to come 1200 miles to poach.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

Fishndude said:


> Can, and Do, are two different things. You seem to have it in your head that Steeelhead just do not die after they spawn. And that is simply wrong. A lot of post-spawn Steelhead do die. A whole lot. Fishing pressure aside, approximately 60% of post-spawn Steelhead die from the stress of spawning. And that_* is*_ the natural life cycle of Steelhead, in the Great Lakes. How many Fall-run Steelhead do you catch that have ragged fins from spawning the previous Spring? Browns?, yes. Atlantics?, absolutely. Steelhead with healed ragged fins from spawning previously are rare. It is less common for hen Steelhead to spawn twice or more, than it is for them to spawn just once.


I get it, they die from stress, and i think your abit high on 60 percent


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

Can you guys find anything else to argue about?😒


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

Martin Looker said:


> Can you guys find anything else to argue about?😒


Everything & Anything


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

RHRoss said:


> Everything & Anything


Right. What kind of party pooper has a problem with that? 😉


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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

I love poached sakmon.
Poached Salmon with Dill Sauce Recipe: How to Make It (tasteofhome.com)


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## deagansdad1 (Jan 27, 2021)

That river salmon meat is like a nice slab of beef...well aged to perfection. Should be better eating technically.

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## dirtyfisheyes187 (Jul 12, 2017)

The blacker the salmon get the better the eating 
Lol


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## jimbo (Dec 29, 2007)

the "GROUP" faces $4000 in fines?
snagging, over limit and no license. I would think each one would face way more than that


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

Looks like Kyle was there around the time the bust happened


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