# Caution! Remington Nitro Steel



## bheary (Dec 29, 2010)

I had a 3.5 Rem Nitro Steel turn into a cut shell on me the other day and broke my trigger group. I bought the shells last year.









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## bheary (Dec 29, 2010)

bheary said:


> I had a 3.5 Rem Nitro Steel turn into a cut shell on me the other day and broke my trigger group. I bought the shells last year.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I meant Rem HYPERSONIC not Nitro steel

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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

All the more reason not to shoot 3.5” and especially Hypersonics.


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

bheary said:


> I meant Rem HYPERSONIC not Nitro steel
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Interesting, I've never seen a Remington hull come apart like that. The Hypersonic stuff is pretty nuclear - but to the way they avhieve that performance in that load is irrelevant. It still meets SAAMI pressure specs for 12ga 3.5" ammo or they wouldnt be selling it.

Contact Remington with a brief note about what happened, what broke, and lot # from the box of ammo. I wouldn't be surprised if they hook you up with a new trigger group for your 870, if nothing else. They may want whatever shell components you were able to recover or analysis.

I'm curious what happened to the trigger group. Is it one of the newer trigger groups with the polymer frame?


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## JAA (Oct 6, 2004)

Are you sure it's not your Gun? Stove pipe or out of Battery It Does Happen. I'v seen it shooting skeet at the club B-4. ----------------------------------------------------------------When a firearm has a movable breech (slide or bolt), being locked in the forward (firing) position is called being "in battery". Firing out of battery happens when something malfunctions and the hammer follows the bolt/slide and the weapon fires before it locks up. This does not contain the pressure from firing properly and can be dangerous. The only exception to this is some, mainly machine guns, are designed to do this. But, because they are designed to fire "from an open bolt", they are also designed to do it safely.


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## Divers Down (Mar 31, 2008)

I don’t bother with Rem guns or ammo but thanks for the word of caution.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

I contacted rem about bad primers (corroded) and they wouldn't give me the time of day.


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## bheary (Dec 29, 2010)

JAA said:


> Are you sure it's not your Gun? Stove pipe or out of Battery It Does Happen. I'v seen it shooting skeet at the club B-4. ----------------------------------------------------------------When a firearm has a movable breech (slide or bolt), being locked in the forward (firing) position is called being "in battery". Firing out of battery happens when something malfunctions and the hammer follows the bolt/slide and the weapon fires before it locks up. This does not contain the pressure from firing properly and can be dangerous. The only exception to this is some, mainly machine guns, are designed to do this. But, because they are designed to fire "from an open bolt", they are also designed to do it safely.


I was thinking that might of been the case but obviously couldn't replicate it. The picture was taken immediately without manipulation. 

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## AaronJohn (Oct 18, 2015)

I shoot these in 3.5 never had an issue. Looks wonky 


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## grassmaster (Jan 10, 2009)

Those things are too fast for there own good, loud as heck and flame comes out the barrel, ran a case of them spring snow goose hunting, junk!


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## Magnet (Mar 2, 2001)

JAA said:


> Are you sure it's not your Gun? Stove pipe or out of Battery It Does Happen. I'v seen it shooting skeet at the club B-4. ----------------------------------------------------------------When a firearm has a movable breech (slide or bolt), being locked in the forward (firing) position is called being "in battery". Firing out of battery happens when something malfunctions and the hammer follows the bolt/slide and the weapon fires before it locks up. This does not contain the pressure from firing properly and can be dangerous. The only exception to this is some, mainly machine guns, are designed to do this. But, because they are designed to fire "from an open bolt", they are also designed to do it safely.


I agree that it looks like the slide wasn't locked and was most likely caused by the gun, not the ammo. Did this occur on the first shot or a quick follow up shot?


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

grassmaster said:


> Those things are too fast for there own good, loud as heck and flame comes out the barrel, ran a case of them spring snow goose hunting, junk!


They pattern like hell too.


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

sureshot006 said:


> I contacted rem about bad primers (corroded) and they wouldn't give me the time of day.


Huh. I had a Nitrosteel squib on me a couple years ago and Remington was very interested in it. They requested I send them the remains of the shell and lot # from the box. They returned me a check for enough to buy a couple boxes of shells of my choosing along with some Remington swag.

That was while back and things have changed at Remington since...


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Quack Addict said:


> Huh. I had a Nitrosteel squib on me a couple years ago and Remington was very interested in it. They requested I send them the remains of the shell and lot # from the box. They returned me a check for enough to buy a couple boxes of shells of my choosing along with some Remington swag.
> 
> That was while back and things have changed at Remington since...


Mine was about 2015. Had a new case of 1000 primers. About 1 in 5 had corrosion on the inside of the primers. Didn't notice it right away but was having misfires about 1 in 15, including shooting at an 8 point. Luckily he had women on his mind and I had time to rack another round in the chamber.


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## bheary (Dec 29, 2010)

Magnet said:


> I agree that it looks like the slide wasn't locked and was most likely caused by the gun, not the ammo. Did this occur on the first shot or a quick follow up shot?


First shot

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## Bucket-Back (Feb 8, 2004)

I have had issues with the Nitros, all the way back to 1996. I have a 1978 1100. and a 2017 870 ( 20), had a 1976 Wingmaster, all bought new by me.


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## AaronJohn (Oct 18, 2015)

This gun was shot out of battery. 


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## bheary (Dec 29, 2010)

After closer inspection there is more damage than I originally thought. Who knows if the bolt and barrel wore over time and could of caused the issue. You can clearly see where the trigger assembly is broke by the hammer spring.























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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

That's one of the newer triggers with poly housing. The trigger frames on older 870's were cast aluminum. Not sure if that played a role in your issue, other than aluminum might have stayed together or broke differently.

The locking lug and barrel detent look serviceable. A little polishing on the edges, but not worn at an angle. Was there any accumulated schmutz in the barrel detent that might have prevented the locking lug from fully engaging? They tend to accumulate crud and need to be cleaned out with a q-tip from time to time. Looks clean in the pic.

Any idea why the locking lug and carrier are both stamped with a match mark (A)? I've never noticed that on any 870 I've had apart. How well does the carrier fit into the slide rails (any wear)? Were both trigger pins installed (saw one fall out during a hunt once)? I'd mic the receiver to see if it is bulged - the combination of a bulged receiver and crud on the locking face might have played a role.


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

For the sake of Captain Obvious, the 870 in question has a "Super Mag" receiver, and the barrel is stamped 3.5" shells, right?


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## OnHoPr (Jul 21, 2013)

Should be a super mag. I don't think a 3" gun will eject 3.5 hulls cleanly out of the port. It is a thought though.


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## Blacklab77 (Jun 21, 2006)

Did the shell get wet from the previous year. Anything that gets wet, rust you can see on the brass, or spots where the bass has changed color, don't fire it. Seen many folks learn their lesson the hard way blowing triggers, barrels, or both up by using these bad shells.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

careful to condemn a company when you don't know the reason for it. not fair to them IMO.

that looks like it could be an action or shell issue.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Hyper Steel. Anything that comes in a metallic silver box but is designed for duck hunting, well, enough said...


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

bheary,

I do hope that nobody was hurt (except maybe a duck).

I also hope that you are sending the gun and any remaining ammunition back to Remington. They will likely do what they can to determine the cause. 

You may or may not learn of their findings. I am aware of similar circumstances with other companies in recent years.

I also hope that they compensate you fairly for your loss. 

Let us know what happens.


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## bheary (Dec 29, 2010)

Luckily I was ok minus a ringing ear and soiled underwear. I was really concerned for where the rest of the shell ended up assuming it stayed intact. I knew there weren't but one crew of two people around but who knows how far it will go when pointing upwards at a 30 to 40 degree angle. 

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## bheary (Dec 29, 2010)

Quack Addict said:


> For the sake of Captain Obvious, the 870 in question has a "Super Mag" receiver, and the barrel is stamped 3.5" shells, right?


Yup, I have it since 2007 or 08

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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> Hyper Steel. Anything that comes in a metallic silver box but is designed for duck hunting, well, enough said...


Physics hasn't changed. Steel shot performance is all about velocity (and shot placement). Don't let Rem's marketing department sway your opinion with their flashy packaging. Hypersonic Steel is a tool. It's just a normal payload pushed with slower burning powder and a 'special' wad to modify burn rate. Peak pressure isn't achieved until the payload is farther down the pipe, hence the louder bang and muzzle flash. I can see where that could wreak havoc on a direct impingement semi-auto...

Hypersonic isn't my go-to load, but I have seen it fold geese like a suitcase that I've seen sail to the treeline (or just keep on going) on identical shots with regular Nitrosteel, Kent Fasteel, and/or Black Cloud. I usually carry 3 Hypersonics in my pocket when geese are in season to flip out when a pass shoot opportunity presents itself. Usually good for a WTH comment from your buddy when you send one downrange too, lol. 

I can safely duplicate the HS performance at my load bench with modern powder but the convenience of a factory load that only gets chambered a couple times a year gives me more time for things that matter. 

That being said, I've been working off the same box of Hypersonics for at least 3 years and theres still a few left in there. My 870 Express Mag is old enough to drink and has processed at least 5k rounds with a heavy bias toward waterfowl loads and doesnt have a problem digesting them.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Steel bleeds speed so fast that the difference between a 1700 and a 1350 fps round at 50 yards is negligible. Even hyper steel brags you only need 8" less lead. Most people can't even judge range that well. And faster loads are very tricky to get to pattern well.

I pass shoot geese with slow Federal blues in 1 steel and fold them at any range I care to shoot. Lots of holes in birds kill birds, not a couple "faster" pellets.

We were shooting threes and fours, Federal blue box, on the opener at Shiawasee and at 30-40 yards only one of the five geese we shot needed follow up work. Beautiful geysers they made when they hit the water DRT from that high.


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

bheary,

Like others have stated, it looks like the shell detonated when the gun was out of battery. One cause could be a hang-fire. The fact that the brass is broken on the side and the trigger group is damaged, makes it appear that the chamber of the gun did not contain the pressure and the the shell detonated with the bolt back instead of being locked up in battery.

When you pull trigger on an 870, the bolt disengages and the slide can be pulled back.

When you fired that shot, I suspect you were pointing at game and worked the slide automatically. If the cartridge hang-fired and detonated later, that could be the cause.

Modern ammunition is not supposed to do that. Many years ago, hang-fires were common with shotgun cartridges. 

Because of this, Model 12 Winchester pump shotgun was designed with that in mind. When you pull the trigger on an old Model 12, the gun stays in battery until the slide is pushed forward slightly. The recoil usually did this. But if the gun did not recoil, it stayed locked in battery.


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## bheary (Dec 29, 2010)

John Singer said:


> bheary,
> 
> Like others have stated, it looks like the shell detonated when the gun was out of battery. One cause could be a hang-fire. The fact that the brass is broken on the side and the trigger group is damaged, makes it appear that the chamber of the gun did not contain the pressure and the the shell detonated with the bolt back instead of being locked up in battery.
> 
> ...


I would say that is plausible. Today while completing semi-annual qualifications I watched 45 rds of 3in 00 Buck fired from an 870 and noticed the bolt would travel back about a 1/8" and catch the locking lug on the barrel everytime. We also could not get it to fire until fully into battery, when the action bar lock engaged. I am very confident that the shell was too hot. I dont normally buy these hot ass shells but when that's all there is to buy what's a man to do? 

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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Here's your chance:
*
Remington HyperSonic Steel 12 GA 3" 1 1/4oz only $179.99 a case
*
At Roger's Sporting goods.

Oh wait, I just got two cases of the same load in Federal Blue Box for $89.99 a case after rebate. I don't think an extra 300 fps is worth twice the price, but then, if you end up SOL with a dead motor you can use that shiny silver box as a signal mirror.


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> *Remington HyperSonic Steel 12 GA 3" 1 1/4oz only $179.99 a case*
> I don't think an extra 300 fps is worth twice the price, but then, if you end up SOL with a dead motor you can use that shiny silver box as a signal mirror.


Or you can propel yourself home by firing the Remington Hypersonic from the back of your boat.


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## bheary (Dec 29, 2010)

UPDATE: Remington got back to me and offered me my choice of camo Super Mag. Which I'm not surprised that was the minimum they would do. 

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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

am just seeing this thread
i have used 870s, 1100s, 1170s... since i was pre-teen
they were $160 (870) to $295 (1100)
i would hunt and shoot like crazy, and never clean my gun until the summer
most dependable

i think of going back and using them, after 20 years of sitting in the gun safe because now they make guns that cost $700-1200, and we wind up with a problem, or more, every year 

my shooting went to hell when i bought a new versa max - 2-3 years later, i found out the factory shims were set for a left hander. now it shoots fine
my 870 super mag had a part break, and i could not unload the other two shells
my v3 has been ok, knock on wood - except that winchester 3" get caught (too long) when ejecting, and kent, fiooci, and others get dented but do not go off (contacted kent, sent two cases back and they sent me three cases back - no problems with them)
(btw, i switched to a benelli, shot it for a few months, and sold it due to problems. my son and his friends have other brands, brownings, etc, and they have had problems every year0

my similar issue to this thread was in 2016, using my backup grouse/backupbackup duck gun, an 1187 premier
shot at a duck and two shells went off nearly at the same time

not sure how that happened









have not shot it since - definitely a backup!


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## TNL (Jan 6, 2005)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> careful to condemn a company when you don't know the reason for it. not fair to them IMO.
> 
> that looks like it could be an action or shell issue.


SK, Remington owns both ends of this equation - firearm and ammunition. The fact that they're sending a new gun is very telling. 

Got a bud who damn near blew off his hand with a Rem auto. Looks like the same thing that happened to THL in the pic above. He skipped the customer service part and went to a lawyer. That bud is driving a new F-250, has a new Benelli and some other toys besides college. Good vintage Remingtons are still out there. Just be careful of the Cerberus Capital models. I believe JP Morgan and Franklin now hold most of the Remington paper these days. Sad deal for America's oldest gunmaker.


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

TNL said:


> SK, Remington owns both ends of this equation - firearm and ammunition. The fact that they're sending a new gun is very telling.
> 
> Got a bud who damn near blew off his hand with a Rem auto. Looks like the same thing that happened to THL in the pic above. He skipped the customer service part and went to a lawyer. That bud is driving a new F-250, has a new Benelli and some other toys besides college. Good vintage Remingtons are still out there. Just be careful of the Cerberus Capital models. I believe JP Morgan and Franklin now hold most of the Remington paper these days. Sad deal for America's oldest gunmaker.



wow
how badly was he injured?


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## AaronJohn (Oct 18, 2015)

Love my versamax (shimmed perfectly straight) and V3. 

Hundreds of rounds possible thousand in the versamax, not a single hang up by the gun.

Had one box of black cloud that was crimped to tall and wouldn’t cycle. 

The new super mag has treated my buddy well. 


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## FISHMANMARK (Jun 11, 2007)

TheHighLIfe said:


> my similar issue to this thread was in 2016, using my backup grouse/backupbackup duck gun, an 1187 premier
> shot at a duck and two shells went off nearly at the same time


Double feed and fired out of battery???

That's scary.


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## TNL (Jan 6, 2005)

Don, look at your pic. Everything on the hand right of the receiver had all the flesh blown off - just muscle showing, plus tore into the palm pad and fingers there too. I found parts of the forearm 80' away.


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

holy crap.
i get the vision of his hand damage
struggling to envision how the damage happened - if the kind of the same that happened to me, my right hand was on the stock and trigger, so i am not sure how it injured his palm?


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## bheary (Dec 29, 2010)

TheHighLIfe said:


> am just seeing this thread
> i have used 870s, 1100s, 1170s... since i was pre-teen
> they were $160 (870) to $295 (1100)
> i would hunt and shoot like crazy, and never clean my gun until the summer
> ...


Wow! Couldn't imagine the oh **** factor that came with that.

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