# Questions on roofing quote



## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

double trouble said:


> So what kind of special deal did you get on your metal roof? They wanted $18000-$25000 for mine for 33 square. That was over 3 times what shingles cost me last year. I figured that even with the "increase in value" of my home that I would be long dead before it paid off. Remember that the tax man is going to want a piece of the action too.


I haven't put my roof on yet. But the contractor who will do it typically gets around $425.00 a square labor, material, disposal, permits, etc etc which includes tear off and disposal of the existing shingles. 
For the "typical" roof (which doesn't exist) his materials cost him around $250.00 a square. Steel goes back on a hell of a lot faster than shingles.


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## -Axiom- (Jul 24, 2010)

There are guys out there selling exposed fastener agricultural panels as residential metal roofing.

They look cheap and tacky when they are brand new, just give them a few years and see how they look then.


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## hypox (Jan 23, 2000)

ESOX said:


> I haven't put my roof on yet. But the contractor who will do it typically gets around $425.00 a square labor, material, disposal, permits, etc etc which includes tear off and disposal of the existing shingles.
> For the "typical" roof (which doesn't exist) his materials cost him around $250.00 a square. Steel goes back on a hell of a lot faster than shingles.


So, my quote includes tear down and clean up (one layer of shingles), 10 sq. of shingles, 280 Ft. aluminum drip edge, 94 Ft. ridge vent, 6ft ice shield shield around eaves, valleys and (2) chimneys, flashing for chimneys and pipe vents, allowance for (5) osb board replacement, synthetic underlayment, new seamless gutters, and a 10 year warrenty on workmanship.....$8,450. I don't know if it means anything, but my roof is a 4/12 pitch.

Would the metal roof you are talking about cost me $17000+ (double)?


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## storman (Mar 12, 2008)

$425 a square is way to cheap to do a good job unless he is paying cheap labor. I have seen jobs go over $350 a sq for material. A commercial job with large open areas may get down to $250. Been doing this for 20 years and i would never sell a job by the sq, i may cross check my bid by the sq but always bid our jobs out labor and material, to many variables for per sq bids for me.

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## -Axiom- (Jul 24, 2010)

hypox said:


> So, my quote includes tear down and clean up (one layer of shingles), 10 sq. of shingles, 280 Ft. aluminum drip edge, 94 Ft. ridge vent, 6ft ice shield shield around eaves, valleys and (2) chimneys, flashing for chimneys and pipe vents, allowance for (5) osb board replacement, synthetic underlayment, new seamless gutters, and a 10 year warrenty on workmanship.....$8,450. I don't know if it means anything, but my roof is a 4/12 pitch.
> 
> Would the metal roof you are talking about cost me $17000+ (double)?


Your roof is most likely bigger than 10 sq.

The average cost for materials for a shingle roof for me has been around $130 - 140/sq.


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## hypox (Jan 23, 2000)

-Axiom- said:


> Your roof is most likely bigger than 10 sq.
> 
> The average cost for materials for a shingle roof for me has been around $130 - 140/sq.


It could be, I don't even know what a square is....lol

I can tell you, my house is 1400 sq feet and has an attached 2 car garage.

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## sjk984 (Jan 4, 2010)

100 square '=1 sq
Just off hand with the garage its probably around 30

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## stevebrandle (Jan 23, 2000)

hypox said:


> It could be, I don't even know what a square is....lol
> 
> I can tell you, my house is 1400 sq feet and has an attached 2 car garage.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


lol, now that we've totally confused you, get a bid from Esox's guy (if he'll travel that far) and compare that to your best shingle bid. Go metal if you can afford it and shingle if not. If you plan on living in that house for at least 20 years I'd go metal. If not, you can still replace the shingles in 20 years and think about it some more and still be into the cost for the same money. I'd have a metal roof right now, but I'm 56 years old and have better things to spend my money on right now.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

storman said:


> $425 a square is way to cheap to do a good job unless he is paying cheap labor. I have seen jobs go over $350 a sq for material. A commercial job with large open areas may get down to $250.


He is not paying 350 a square for material, I know that for a fact because I sell it to him.  


storman said:


> Been doing this for 20 years and i would never sell a job by the sq, i may cross check my bid by the sq but always bid our jobs out labor and material, to many variables for per sq bids for me.


I never said he was bidding by the square, he bids a complete labor and material price. Being his supplier, I often help him work on complex quotes where he needs to know the cost of flashings and trims for numerous hips, valleys, wall flashings and projections. It is easy enough to back those costs into a rough per square figure.


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## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

I am surprised to hear the GAF bashing it wasn't too long ago and IKO was thought to be the entry level product i.e. something to throw on the rental house. 
Certainteed is cetainly the most popular today based on all the trucks hauling their product down the highway.


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## storman (Mar 12, 2008)

We fab all our own trim out if 24 gage 4x10 flat stock, i dont like the pre fab trim as it isnt always the best fit for non typical flashings. Chimneys skylights etc, gives me more options to fab our own. Metal roofing is still the best option if you can afford the upfront cost. NO SHINGLE will last a lifetime in my opinion.

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## outdoor junkie (Sep 16, 2003)

2ESRGR8 said:


> I am surprised to hear the GAF bashing it wasn't too long ago and IKO was thought to be the entry level product i.e. something to throw on the rental house.
> Certainteed is cetainly the most popular today based on all the trucks hauling their product down the highway.


i agree with you here. IKO is crap, all of the scab, fly by nighters around here use it because they are cheap. I will walk away fro ma job if a customer insists on them.


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## outdoor junkie (Sep 16, 2003)

Metal roofs are great if you can afford them and they are put on correctly. but in my opinion they look awful on some houses. I don't install metal roofing, but won't try to steer anyone awy from them either, I just give them a couple buddies numbers who do them. Good luck with whatever you decide on original poster. But if your paying over $8,000 for a ten square tearoff and reshingle you need to find another contractor, because that is ridiculous. A ten square one layer tearoff on a 4/12 pitch is a day job and should cost closer to half that quoted price. Unless I missed something or misread the thread run away from him.


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## hypox (Jan 23, 2000)

outdoor junkie said:


> Metal roofs are great if you can afford them and they are put on correctly. but in my opinion they look awful on some houses. I don't install metal roofing, but won't try to steer anyone awy from them either, I just give them a couple buddies numbers who do them. Good luck with whatever you decide on original poster. But if your paying over $8,000 for a ten square tearoff and reshingle you need to find another contractor, because that is ridiculous. A ten square one layer tearoff on a 4/12 pitch is a day job and should cost closer to half that quoted price. Unless I missed something or misread the thread run away from him.


OK, you inspired me to climb on the roof and figure out how many square feet of roof I have. The house and garage total 2,500 square feet. If I'm understanding correctly, that's 25 square? My quote says 10 square but it's a single line item and doesn't actually say 10 square of shingles. Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

So, assuming everything else in the original quote is correct, and it's 25 square (or 2,500 square feet of shingles), doe's the quote seem fair?

Good thing I'm not a roofer...lol:lol:


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## double trouble (Nov 20, 2003)

My roof was done last summer .It was shingles from Esox. The roof was 33.5 square. It is a 2 story , all the flashing , vents and shingle were replaced with BP shingles. The highest price estimate was $8300 for a full tear off job. I paid over a thousand less. Yes ,shingles have gone up 10-15% , but that is only an extra $500. Figure $250/square laid should be the real price.


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## outdoor junkie (Sep 16, 2003)

2500 square foot home does not mean 25 square of roofing usually. But I am sure it is alot closer than 10 square. Measure out the lengths and heights of each section, multiply them and move a decimal point two places to the left and that will give you the squares of each section. If your house is say 30' long by 15' from eaves to ridge that would be 30x15=450=4.50 square of shingles. dormers, valleys, and any other triangle areas of the roof can be measured the same and cut in half roughly to get the square needed. In my area we are roughly anywhere from $210-$300 a square. Depending on pitch and layout of the roof, and layers that need to be removed and hauled.


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## outdoor junkie (Sep 16, 2003)

If your job is around the 25 square range it should be closer to 5k than 8k. Without the gutters that would be extra. But not 3k.


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## hypox (Jan 23, 2000)

All good info here. I'm going to get more quotes based on this information.

I live in Kalamazoo County. If anyone here is interested in giving me a quote, let me know!


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## whatever (Jan 13, 2011)

outdoor junkie said:


> The certainteed shingle is superior to the GAF, the lawsuit is from a bad batch of shingles they ran years back. And yes Certainteed does stand behind their products, I have dealt with them in insurance jobs a few times ove rthe years. And save your money on the underlayment, if installed properly 15# or 30# felt will do the job with no problem and save you money. If you have can vents, have them filled and cut the ridge open and install ridge vent. Tell them you want new flashings and pipe boots. If anyone quotes you a price and involves IKO shingles, close the door and tel lthem to get off your property.


IF THEY STAND BEHIND THEM WHY WAS THE LAW SUIT NEEDED ? THYE STAND WAY BEHIND THEM


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## HunterZ (Jan 1, 2005)

Wow, a lot interesting idea flying around. I can't disagree with a lot of them. For those hung up on the warranties and everybody should be. Read them. But be fair, Read them all. Look out for phases like." In the event of a leak" means don't call unless it leaks. Or Maximum amount paid per sq. Look at the price given. If it failed the day it was put on it would not be covered. Is color covered? Only one company covers it unless it comes from the same manufactured batch.
All shingles have at least 2 levels of warranty. An upfront strongest portion of the warranty which usually covers LABOR and MATERIAL (most are 10 years). Some are actually prorated in the up front portion. Then they go into a prorated portion that is for material only. The prorated portion runs for different lengths of time. Most 40 years with better products being 50 years. BUT THEY ARE LIFETIMES? Limited Lifetime. At this point there are varied amounts of retained warranty ranging from 10 to 20%.
This is on laminated shingles. 3 tabs still have 25 and 30 year warranties but they too have up front stronger warranties
If I wanted the strongest warranties I would go with the manufacturer who trains the installers and offers up front NON Prorated warranties out to 50 years and will even cover the workmanship (How it is installed not just how it is manufactured) for up to 25 years.
Shingles are easy to install. It is the ends, penetrations and flashings that will get you every time. It is a totally installed system, Not just shingles. Make sure your ventilation system is installed correctly can save you a multitude of issues.
I would rather pay a little more and sleep a lot better since my roof protects everything I own.


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## outdoor junkie (Sep 16, 2003)

Yes shingles are easy to install, just not correctly apparently. I cannot tell you how many times in a year I have to go out and fix someone elses screw up. Ridge cap ra nthe wrong way and blow off, shingles nailed to high and blow off, valleys ran the wrong way in a pin line style valley and they leak, flashings ran wrong, or not at all, especially around chimneys. Cut them in, don't butt and tar them. Bottom line make sure you use a reputable company that is licensed and insured, not some hack who does it o nthe side and can beat any price.


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## -Axiom- (Jul 24, 2010)

outdoor junkie said:


> Yes shingles are easy to install, just not correctly apparently. I cannot tell you how many times in a year I have to go out and fix someone elses screw up. Ridge cap ra nthe wrong way and blow off, shingles nailed to high and blow off, valleys ran the wrong way in a pin line style valley and they leak, flashings ran wrong, or not at all, especially around chimneys. Cut them in, don't butt and tar them. Bottom line make sure you use a reputable company that is licensed and insured, not some hack who does it o nthe side and can beat any price.


 Same here.


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## HunterZ (Jan 1, 2005)

I agree totally. That is where the comments on getting the cheapest quote or how much they can beat up the price of a roofer comes into play. You can get by cheap (maybe) but if you pay a fair price for the roofer to stay in business, pay his taxes and insurances, you generally are going to get a better roof job. Not to mention if you do have a problem, the contractor has a better chance of still being in business to come back and fix the issue.
I am amazed at the amount of roofers in the fear of losing the job cut corners on things such as ventilation and waterproofing underlayment to the home owners loss. They don't even pay attention to bringing these things to code. Code is a bare minimum and the roofer is on the hook every time he does not. Even if there is no permit required, the roofer is still responsible.
Likewise the home owner is responsible for any injuries on the job site if the roofer is not properly insured. He might be your buddy but when he does not come home from your job, his wife may not be so understanding in court.


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## double trouble (Nov 20, 2003)

If you take out an all risk policy on your home owners policy for $1,000,000 it cost less for a year than a one roof policy the contractor pays for your 2 day job. They pay $41 per thousand per roof. You can have the policy for a week and cancel it. Covers your ****. No matter if the roofer pays comp or not, you are still liable if he or his workers fall. They are still on YOUR property. 
It depends on the insurance companies involved and the judge.
The tax issue is a fair one. We all pay taxes , so should your roofer.
You need a receipt for warranty issues anyway. 
So now there is a permit issue. Some communities want $300-500 in permit fees . That is insane. The city does not warranty ANYTHING , so why would you ever get a permit. I have Never seen an inspector on a roof so what good are they.. 
So if you totally go by the book , you will pay about $1000 in extra fees alone. 
I was quoted almost $2500 difference in prices for the same job . 
All the companies were highly qualified.
Mine was 33 square , 9 guys, done in one day . Excellent work.
Just make sure you provide a bathroom , cold drinks , and lunch. You'll get a good job.


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## outdoor junkie (Sep 16, 2003)

If a worker who is covered under the companies insurance falls, no fault or risk goes to the homeowner. i guess you could try to take it to court, but you will NEVER win anything. The homeowner is not liable for that whatsoever. And it is not the homeowners responsibility to take out extra cost on their homeowners to save the contractor a few bucks, that just allows the far too many scabs in this state to work care free. You sound like a great customer though, but I do not allow myself or my employees to use customers bathrooms, far too entrusive. i won't allow strangers to use mine, so I don't even ask. just run to the nearest store or fast food establishment. i will say cold drinks on a hot summer day goes along way. We as contractors pay the liability and comp to ease the customers mind. It's what seperates the trustworthy from the hacks. Doesn't bother me, the worse is paying into unemployment.


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## outdoor junkie (Sep 16, 2003)

i will say you are right about the inspectors though, what a joke of a job. Got into it twice in the past few weeks fro mthe pretty lady who does it in haslett. Comes and asks the same questions, hows the decking, and did we put the ice and water shield on? I say check it out, but I don't see a ladder on top of your Caddy, and your not climbing mine, for insurance purposes.:lol: Not being responsible for you climbing two stories up my ladder in stilletos.


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## double trouble (Nov 20, 2003)

outdoor junkie said:


> If a worker who is covered under the companies insurance falls, no fault or risk goes to the homeowner. i guess you could try to take it to court, but you will NEVER win anything. The homeowner is not liable for that whatsoever. And it is not the homeowners responsibility to take out extra cost on their homeowners to save the contractor a few bucks, that just allows the far too many scabs in this state to work care free. You sound like a great customer though, but I do not allow myself or my employees to use customers bathrooms, far too entrusive. i won't allow strangers to use mine, so I don't even ask. just run to the nearest store or fast food establishment. i will say cold drinks on a hot summer day goes along way. We as contractors pay the liability and comp to ease the customers mind. It's what seperates the trustworthy from the hacks. Doesn't bother me, the worse is paying into unemployment.


 Ask my brother in law the lawyer. Anybody who enters your property can sue and win if they are hurt. Yes, comp will PROBABLY cover all the expense , but there are times it may not. I have seen him win cases from homeowners insurance companies even with contractors who had proper insurance. It is unusual , but it does happen.
As far as the bathroom goes, I have been a residential electrician and doing construction jobs a long time. Can my boss charge $85 per hour so I can drive to the store. Just as a matter or courtesy , I always allow workmen or anybody in my home to use the facilities. Since I am a worker ,I try to treat workers in my home how I would like to be treated.
I know you feel that you are doing customers a service by carrying full insurance and being responsible , but it also involves how we have let government intrude on our lives. In the "old days" if you fell off the roof , you suffered .It was your problem. Now its a major expense to us all. 
I am not sure I agree with the whole concept even though I have collected it myself (hernia) when I was injured on a job. Same with no fault and catastrophic claims . I pay for other who are not as responsible as myself.


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## outdoor junkie (Sep 16, 2003)

I agree with your last comment whole-heartedly. My rates have been going up for years, although I have never had a claim in 15 years. The system needs to be revised.


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