# Tine to raise some hackles--Defending the STOPLOSS



## Bogmaster (Dec 24, 2001)

Boys,I am going to ruffle a few feathers here,but whats a good trapping forum without a dispute or two?
Mister Ed,you are right,the Duke #1 stoploss you purchased,were the old style.They were lacking in several areas.
For that reason,I was asked by Bill Duke to help them in redesigning a new stoploss trap.This took place 4 years ago,and the new ones became available in the early summer of 2003.
Every single thing I asked for,was implemented into this trap.Those of you that liked the old Blake and Lamb stoploss should like this one.It was one of my favorite traps,and some of its better features were put into this trap.I did have the chain moved from the jaw end to the spring end of the trap,that way a trapped animal has no extra chain to play with.The trap can be set with the cain pulled tight,and it stays that way.The stoploss pin was also removed--you don't need it.I found that over the years,the rats I lost ,when using a stoploss ,were because the pin had been caught up and didn,allow the stoploss spring to fire--no pin--no malfunction,no lost rat.

Lang,without the stoploss spring--it is just a number one longspring.The stoploss spring,helps prevent wring offs,that is its main and only function.
Yes it has a very strong longspring,but with practice,you get used to setting it.

Everlast,The extra cost of the stoploss trap ,pays for itself over and over again.Yes,if you have deep water without any entanglements--a stoploss trap isn't needed.When trapping rats,I do not find this situation very often.My heaviest concentrations of rats ,are in heavily vegetated areas,many without real deep water.The stoploss allows me to trap these areas,with minimal wring off---This season,I lost 1 rat out of 450--and I am still debating whether this was indeed a hind leg wringoff--or the work of a predator.
In my situations,the stoploss puts a lot of extra rats in my fur shed--and they have paid for themselves many times over.
While some of you may not agree with me----at least you know---THE REST OF THE STORY.

Tom Olson


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## Gary A. Schinske (Jul 10, 2006)

I could not agree with you more, Tom. In the UP, the river I trap is brush on both sides. Without a stop loss, you would catch zero. The brush is also tough to even set 110s. Dominate set is feed beds in the brush. Also, the water is deep so everything is done out of a canoe. Alot of times I am placing the trap with the paddle. In central Michigan, the rat trapping I do is around cattails. These are really prime places for wring offs without a stop loss. I was fortunate to find a bunch of Blake and Lamb that replaced all the early Duke stop loss I had purchased. All the old Dukes had to be reworked and were still not as functional as they needed to be. The ones that were totally screwed up, Duke took back and replaced. I have always found Duke to stand behind what they sell and make the trapper as happy as a trapper can get, which is a questionable subject. Tom did a great job re-designing the Duke Stop Loss. Thanks Tom

Gary A. Schinske
President, MTA


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## lang49 (Aug 1, 2005)

Bogmaster said:


> Lang,without the stoploss spring--it is just a number one longspring.The stoploss spring,helps prevent wring offs,that is its main and only function.
> Yes it has a very strong longspring,but with practice,you get used to setting it.


Thanks for your insights Tom. I have no problem with the stoploss as a whole. I just think that fewer wring offs would occur if the muskrat's leg wasn't broken in the process of catching him. You're right about the delay pin being a bad idea- if the stoploss mechanism on this trap ever failed to function, you would definitely lose the rat because with a spring as strong as this one, you're going to break the leg everytime.


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## Bogmaster (Dec 24, 2001)

Lang,these traps have been in use for 4 seasons now,if leg breakage was a problem,I would have been inundated with calls--that is not the case.
Tom Olson


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## gunrod (Jan 16, 2001)

I'm new to the sport a couple of months ago so I know next to nothing.  

I will say that most of my traps are Dukes because of the price of getting started and I'm very happy with their traps. I see no reason to spend extra money when I'm getting a pretty good trap for the price.

I bought my Duke stoploss after missing quite a few rats early on and stoploss were recommended. I found mine on eBay cheaper than anywhere else for a new dozen.

I'm not giving up on the traps but I did not like them under the ice on board sets. Part of my problem was that I got lazy and went with 1" X 3"s that were light to carry in. These boards are too thin and make it easy for rats to come up on the side knocking the trap off. I'll fix that for next season.

The issue with the Duke stoploss was the guard is larger than most and allowed rats to get on the guard rather than the pan because the guard placement made you put the bait too far from the pan (if my explanation makes sense). I also found that the guard would catch on the under side of the ice allowing the rat to escape. Placing the board/bait/trap deeper only allowed room for the rat to come up from the side.

I'll definitely use them in the fall before ice and experiment with wider boards in the winter. I'm not knocking the trap completely since I wasn't able to put it to the test in all seasons but the limited use so far hasn't faired well.


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## Alfie Cat (Jan 17, 2004)

I got a couple dozen last year, there a great trap, and there an affordable replacement for my aging Victors.


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## Bogmaster (Dec 24, 2001)

Gunrod,now you made me do some measuring--lol.
Length of stoploss spring:
New Duke- 4 inches
Old duke-4 3/4 inches
Blame and Lamb-4 inches
Victor-4 inches

Heighth of stoploss spring above the closed jaws,when passing over the top of the jaws: 
New Duke- 1 3/4 inches
Old duke-2 inches
Blake and Lamb -1 3/4 inches
Victor -2 inches.

I gave the inches over the the trap jaws to show at what level they would have to be set to avoid hitting the ice.
All the traps listed,have the stoploss that rests over the jaws when set---except the victors,the stoploss spring on these rests on the longspring when set.
So when setting on a slanted board,the bait could be set closer to the jaws of the vic.

I never even considered this ,when working on the Duke.I was and still am,more concerned with open water situations.
Under ice setting is a perfect place for longsprings--stoploss traps are not normally needed.The rat is already in a total submersion situation and should expire rapidly.
Tom Olson


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## Mister ED (Apr 3, 2006)

Tom -

Thanks for the info in this thread and the PMs to my original question.

Ed


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## Bogmaster (Dec 24, 2001)

Ed,glad I could be of help.
In case you haven't noticed ,I am a bit passionate about stoploss traps.The stoploss and 330's are my main trapping tools.
Tom Olson


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## gunrod (Jan 16, 2001)

I agree. I was only using the stoploss to get more traps in the water/ice. Just starting out this year I didn't have many traps and when the Dukes became available the ice was already here. Since I put them away and bought another dozen 110's and went strictly baited 110. I did ok but would have been better if my boards were fatter. The bigger boards may have even made the stoploss work better because it would decrease the space on the sides where the rats sneak up and knock the trap off the board. 

In other words, I can't blame the Dukes but only my lack of preparation. I won't make that mistake next year and can give a more accurate report of how the stoploss work for me. 

On the bright side, I never had a twist off on any trap. I did have a pull out on an old Victor #1 longspring but it's 20 years old and was used for nostalgic purposes. My dad bought me the trap when I was a kid but never used it until this year. I wanted a rat in it so I could say it took something and then put it away. I'm sure the spring was weak from years of sitting.


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## soggybtmboys (Feb 24, 2007)

Stoploss traps of any sort are good tools in the hands of any capable trapper. Using stoploss traps should be reserved for non ice conditions. As it was put forth earlier, under ice sets the rats are already submerged and generally expire quickly. Thin boards can be a problem, it allow rats to come into the side of the trap and flip the loose jaw over and swipe your bait. When I utilize my stoploss traps, and even more so when I don't, I utilize drowning stakes to get the rats tangled and down under the water fast as possible. I had a few ring offs this year in traps that had no guard, thus adjusting and using drowning stakes. Dukes are fine traps and I own several. Bridger also makes a stoploss trap that is very comparable to the old victor stoploss style. Sleepy Creek is supposed to be coming out with a new one too. Any are good traps, I prefer to buy made in the USA when possible and hopefully we will be getting more options here to play with.


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

I never had any problems with the pin on my #1 stoploss victors not comming loose when the rat first got in it. The reason was that I saw no need to have it stuck all the way through. I just inserted it enough to delay the firing of the guard but allowing it to easily pull out.

I have not had any experiance with any of these new brands of traps having all the victors that I need.


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## Bogmaster (Dec 24, 2001)

I have no qualms whatsoever buying traps made in Asia.There is no american made stoploss and that is for a reason--cost.
Without the Asians,we would have little if any places to sell our furs.I will buy and sell traps made in Asia and thank them for giving me a place that welcome the furs I catch.
Turn about is more than fair play.
Tom Olson


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