# sit on vs. sit in?



## wartfroggy (Jan 25, 2007)

I have been looking around at kayaks for a while now and still have one thing hanging me up. I am looking for a fishing yak and most of the ones I am finding are sit on open models. This is fine, and I see alot of advantages to it. More freedom to move, things like that. But, I am hoping to use it some early in the year and also near shore on lake michigan to troll and am worried about the lack of protection that the sit on models offer. Mainly getting wet. In talking to a few people that have used the sit on models, some have complained of getting more wet, having water splashing up from the small drains, and lack of protection from waves and spray. For those of you that have used these on larger waters, is this a big concern? The other thing is it would seem to me that a sit in would be more stable as you have a lower center of gravity than a sit on. For these reasons, I may be leaning more towards a sit in, but it would seem easier to actually fish out of and set up a sit on. 

Any suggestions?


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

For big water like the great lakes, you'd prefferably want a SOT. A SINK could be used but remember, they are swampable. Using full whitewater skirting would be an option in a SINK. On the SOT, you can plug the scupper holes to keep water from splashing up and pull them to drain quickly if needed. In cold water, most guys I see are wearing lightweight breathable waders with a wading belt to stay dry. In warm water, getting a little wet is not a big deal. I'm going through the same process you are. Have ordered A Native Ultimate that is really considered a hybrid. You sit inside but it is all open like a canoe. It is swampable so use on big water, while possible is best left to calm days and light powerboat traffic. I am also going to test the Native Manta Ray SOT if possible and I may shell out a few more dollars to get a Native Mariner with the Propel peddle system. The Mariner is a SOT with a Ultimate seat which is extremely comfortable. In reality, I don't think there is one perfect boat for all types of water/fishing....lots of kayak enthusiasts have mutliple boats. If I end up with the Ultimate, I would like to add a SOT as well.

For boats I would look at Native Watercraft, Wilderness Systems, Heritage, Ocean Kayak, Hobie, and Malibu. You'd be hard pressed not to find a rig to your liking from one of those manufacturers.


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## old professor (Oct 26, 2008)

I have gone from a sit in to a sit on model because of problems getting my legs back out from under the deck because of back problems. Yes, you do tend to get wet(ter) in a sit on kayak. My solution was to buy a set of breathable stocking foot waders from Cabela's for $100. It also keeps me dry while climbing in and out of the kayak. Another, more expensive solution, that would be best if you kayak in really cold water periods is a dry suit. Of course they are about three times as expensive! If you look at dry suits, they are probably cheaper from a kayak store/catalog that from a dive shop.


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## wartfroggy (Jan 25, 2007)

Thanks for the suggestions. The more I read the more I am thinking I'll stick with a SOT, even though it is more open to the water. I have heard alot of good things about the Heritage Redfish. I have been also quite interested in the Feel Free Moken13 Angler, but have not heard much about them. Looks pretty decent with some nice features. Anyone have any experience with the Moken 13?


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

That Moken looks pretty interesting though I have not seen one in person. The Integrated wheel on the back is a good idea. I have to wonder how well it works in sand or soft dirt however. If it works, it saves another $80-$130 for a kayak cart though. Those with experience (not me yet, but soon!) will recommend that you paddle as many as you can since they will all have their own personality. 

I figure in the spring and fall, I'll use my breathable waders to help stay dry especially launching and beaching the boat. 

I'm also looking at the inflatable lifejackets instead of a vest for comfort, especially when it's hot.


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## Rysalka (Aug 13, 2008)

I have sit on top...Ocean Kayak, it is extremely stable for fishing on a stream or open water....I fish on the Sturgeon River and small lakes in Northwest Mich with it. 
You do get wet on them even if you stuff the scuppers, so in cold weather I wear a wet suit on the lake or my waders if stream fishing.
I am tall 6'4" and my knees don't bend so well, so had a hard time finding a sit in, that had sufficient room for my legs and allow me get out of when I was done using it. The sit on top allows me to drop my legs over the side to stretch, and when I stop on a stream I just stand up and tie off the Kayak....when I get back on I just step over and sit down and off I go.


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## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

wartfroggy said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. The more I read the more I am thinking I'll stick with a SOT, even though it is more open to the water. I have heard alot of good things about the Heritage Redfish. I have been also quite interested in the Feel Free Moken13 Angler, but have not heard much about them. Looks pretty decent with some nice features. Anyone have any experience with the Moken 13?


I have a Heritage Redfish 12, extremely stable but not the fastest boat. A Wilderness Systems Tarpon 120 would be faster but not necessarily as stable (but still plenty of stability). To stay dry, wear waders, a wading belt, a dry top, and a good PFD. We fish are SOT's as long as there is open water. I would avoid SINK's for the reasons mentioned above, particularly in open water. The Ocean Kayak Prowler is also a good model to look at.


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## R_T (Feb 20, 2009)

Flyfisher said:


> To stay dry, wear waders, a wading belt, a dry top, and a good PFD.


 If you wear waders make sure your PFD will hold you up with your waders filled with water. Also make sure you can get out of them if you need to.


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## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

R_T said:


> If you wear waders make sure your PFD will hold you up with your waders filled with water. Also make sure you can get out of them if you need to.


My opinion on this issue differs a bit

A snug wading belt and a drytop (not just a zip-up wading jacket) should prevent the intrusion of water and actually creates air pockets that aid floatation. If you take measures to prevent your waders from getting water in them, you needn't worry about removing them in an already stressful situation. Focus on getting back into your kayak. That said, do a test run over the summer in shallow water, practicing a water rescue while fully dressed for cold water paddling. SOT's, not including hybrids, are by far the easiest kayaks to re-enter.

Drytops like this seal around the waist, wrists, and neck.


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## Buddwiser (Dec 14, 2003)

Flyfisher said:


> My opinion on this issue differs a bit
> 
> A snug wading belt and a drytop (not just a zip-up wading jacket) should prevent the intrusion of water and actually creates air pockets that aid floatation. If you take measures to prevent your waders from getting water in them, you needn't worry about removing them in an already stressful situation. Focus on getting back into your kayak. That said, do a test run over the summer in shallow water, practicing a water rescue while fully dressed for cold water paddling. SOT's, not including hybrids, are by far the easiest kayaks to re-enter.
> 
> Drytops like this seal around the waist, wrists, and neck.


Just don't panic when you can't get the dadblamed thing stuck around your neck when trying to pull it off. Don't ask how I know.:yikes::lol::lol:
On a serious side, even though a sot may be easier to get back into when dumped out of it, how many of you have taken a self rescue class? Its worth the time and money and you never know.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

I have not had any classes but plan on practicing this move. Have watched a handfull fo videos online about different techniques. Powers Outdoors is having a Michigan Paddle Symposium June 5th and 6th (it's one day, you can go either day). As a rookie we plan to attend so I hope one of the things they cover is self rescue. At my size, self rescue will not be easy so practice will be necessary. I'll likely never be that far from shore but one never knows.


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## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

Buddwiser said:


> On a serious side, even though a sot may be easier to get back into when dumped out of it, how many of you have taken a self rescue class? Its worth the time and money and you never know.


Excellent suggestion. I spent sometime last summer practicing self-rescues.


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## wartfroggy (Jan 25, 2007)

Well, I got out of the search for a while, but with fall fishing coming up I am back at it. I am stuck between a new/last years model Feel Free Moken 13 and a used once Ocean Kayak Prowler 13 Angler with some goodies...paddle & life jacket. Looking to do some trollling, some big water, mostly looking for stablility, not too slow, and ease of adding accessories. Both are about the same price. Any thoughts? With the kings coming in skinny soon, and steelhead after that, I really want to get something to use in the next month.


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## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

wartfroggy said:


> Well, I got out of the search for a while, but with fall fishing coming up I am back at it. I am stuck between a new/last years model Feel Free Moken 13 and a used once Ocean Kayak Prowler 13 Angler with some goodies...paddle & life jacket. Looking to do some trollling, some big water, mostly looking for stablility, not too slow, and ease of adding accessories. Both are about the same price. Any thoughts? With the kings coming in skinny soon, and steelhead after that, I really want to get something to use in the next month.


The Ocean Kayak Prowler is considerably lighter and a proven design. While I am not a huge fan of Ocean, mostly personal because some of their "pro" staff, I would highly recommend the boat. A group of us will be making a 3 day trip for salmon in the open water the weekend after Labor Day. We all caught salmon, kings and coho, last year in 35-80 FOW within a couple hundred yards of shore with little or no powerboat traffic. PM me if you want details.


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## wartfroggy (Jan 25, 2007)

Flyfisher said:


> The Ocean Kayak Prowler is considerably lighter and a proven design. While I am not a huge fan of Ocean, mostly personal because some of their "pro" staff, I would highly recommend the boat. A group of us will be making a 3 day trip for salmon in the open water the weekend after Labor Day. We all caught salmon, kings and coho, last year in 35-80 FOW within a couple hundred yards of shore with little or no powerboat traffic. PM me if you want details.


How is it for mounting a couple of rod holders and other accessories? Comfortable? Overall layout? Price seems ok so I am considering it. Thanks for the help!


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## wartfroggy (Jan 25, 2007)

Not to make this more difficult, but I also found a 12.5 perception caster that looks ok too. I do like the layout better for mounting a front rod holder, but it is a little heavier than the ocean kayak and it sits a little low too.


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## Boone (Feb 24, 2009)

Flyfisher said:


> The Ocean Kayak Prowler is considerably lighter and a proven design. While I am not a huge fan of Ocean, mostly personal because some of their "pro" staff, I would highly recommend the boat. A group of us will be making a 3 day trip for salmon in the open water the weekend after Labor Day. We all caught salmon, kings and coho, last year in 35-80 FOW within a couple hundred yards of shore with little or no powerboat traffic. PM me if you want details.


I sure was looking forward to hearing the results of this trip. The weather doesn't sound favorable. If your group gets a chance to get out please post the results.


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## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

Boone said:


> I sure was looking forward to hearing the results of this trip. The weather doesn't sound favorable. If your group gets a chance to get out please post the results.


Yeah, its a good thing we didn't plan it for this weekend. The forecast for the end of next week when we make our annual trip look quite a bit better.


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## Boone (Feb 24, 2009)

Must have had my glasses off, I missed the weekend after part.


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## Boone (Feb 24, 2009)

Was your group able to make it out? Please give a report if so. Fishing pics would be neat to see. That trip just sounds like a good time, actually fighting the salmon versus tugging it in behind a moving vessel.


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## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

Boone said:


> Was your group able to make it out? Please give a report if so. Fishing pics would be neat to see. That trip just sounds like a good time, actually fighting the salmon versus tugging it in behind a moving vessel.


The conditions have been great, other than Thursday night being a little bumpy. Fishing has been tough but we have caught some salmon. I released a 10lb-12lb female king yesterday morning that took a crankbait close to shore (25-30 FOW) as I was setting lines.


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