# Humminbird Helix 5 with down imaging. Cant see my jig



## LGB (9 mo ago)

Sorry, went back to read his first post. I thought he wanted to know about the DI option. My bad. Almost has to be a transducer angle issue


----------



## LGB (9 mo ago)

Steve,
Does is your Helix 5 the Gen II model ? I ask because the Gen I I don't think has Chirp technology. The Gen II does and that could make a huge difference in seeing fish, baits etc on the sonar screen. My older 959/859 CI units didn't have chirp and seeing individual fish and baits under the boat was very tough.


----------



## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

I believe mine does have the Chirp technology. I am away from my boat right now so can't check. It's almost like I will have to be on my boat in the water and try to get some help from someone on this.


----------



## 50incher (Aug 23, 2011)

I'm an electronics dummy but I'll just mention this as it happened to us this year....I remember snagging our bow mount x-ducer cord on the dock pulling out one day....we fished a few times jigging after, then out of the blue, brother says, that x-ducer is bent out....it was pointing ? maybe 25 degrees from pointing straight down, lol....

Not sure what ya got but we have the added on ducer, funny sometimes how little things get over looked....


----------



## LGB (9 mo ago)

Steve said:


> I believe mine does have the Chirp technology. I am away from my boat right now so can't check. It's almost like I will have to be on my boat in the water and try to get some help from someone on this.


It has to be a transducer or unit adjustment IMO otherwise.


----------



## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

Steve said:


> Yes


@Steve
Oh boy am I late to the party! 🙂
There's no MSI (or MDI) version of the Helix 5, any of those models or Gen.
I'm unsure what exact model you have Steve but were welcome to call or text me...
A DI model has an extremely narrow fan shape beam that's very thin from to back and very wide side to side. Nearly impossible to keep any jig within the beam that's probably less than 3° in width!

On an SI model it's even tougher because they are using a bit of "smoke and mirrors" on the units without a dedicated DI element in the XDCR. The left and right SI beams are used with software compositing the L&R beams and using phase cancellation to "fold" the images into a DI image. This is predominantly used on the older number series and the earliest Helix units. When Mega was introduced the bigger units were designed with 4 elements - 2D, DI, L&R SI. The others (like the Helix 5 & 7 [mostly] have been doing composite DI for years, as are a lot of the current Garmin sidevu models. 
The SI beams are also razor thin and you'll go nuts trying to keep an object within the "slice" of that water column. Whether that's a Gen 1,2 or 3 it's only going to show a jig on 2D and if it's got Chirp expanding the sweep frequency range to it's maximum will help keep your jig onscreen.
As far as which model you have, it's located under the area on the back just above where your cables plug in.
I ran a Helix 5 DI Chirp GPS G2 for one season on the ice and they're pretty good little machines - just too small for my eyes ...

HTH!


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

sfw1960 said:


> @Steve
> Oh boy am I late to the party! 🙂
> There's no MSI version of the Helix 5, any of those models or Gen.
> I'm unsure what exact model you have Steve but were welcome to call or text me...
> ...


He's using 2d for the jig. So most likely the jig really isn't in the cone. Maybe the settings are such that cone is not as broad as it could be.


----------



## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

One more thing...
The "switch fire" option must not be set to "clear" (default) because it's probably filtering out the jigs because of the size - set it to "Max" for unfiltered results!


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

sfw1960 said:


> One more thing...
> The "switch fire" option must not be set to "clear" (default) because it's probably filtering out the jigs because of the size - set it to "Max for unfiltered results!


Clear picks up my jigs but not nearly as well as max.


----------



## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

sureshot006 said:


> Clear picks up my jigs but not nearly as well as max.


So your point is? 😂

The echoes created from a fishes air bladder are less dense objects & are considerably different than ones reflected off lead and steel.

I believe Steve is using ice/panfish jigs and many folks would be using larger ones for bass or other larger fish. The manually set 130-240 kHz range on the DS Chirp is good if he's got it, otherwise I would use the 175-225 kHz range if it's an older Chirp range the Dual Beam had.
That's probably why another person posted to use ice mode - sort of a work around the get the high wide Chirp, but you do need that HW Chirp element so you don't accidentally blow out the final amplifier transistors too.


----------



## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

@Steve
Not positive the latest has that feature yet ... 
I posted here instead of texting you the link - maybe helpful for others!




https://www.humminbird.com/learn/sonar/switchfire


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

sfw1960 said:


> So your point is? 😂
> 
> The echoes created from a fishes air bladder are less dense objects & are considerably different than ones reflected off lead and steel.
> 
> ...


Point was that even though clear can work he should be using max like I had mentioned a few posts back.


----------



## Erik (Jan 17, 2000)

On my Helix 9 I can't see my jig using DI. Regardless of whether its on mega or not. I thought this was normal.
I can see it when using reg Sonar. But its sort of an after it happens thing. Not like perfectly "real time". 
Case in point,
I was able to see where a fish came up off the bottom and it hit my jig. But I actually felt it first and when I looked down at my screen I could see where it had happened. As in past tense. 
I thought this was normal? 
I dont have the 360 imaging. Just reg sonar and mega DI and SI with my transducer mounted on the transom.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Erik said:


> On my Helix 9 I can't see my jig using DI. Regardless of whether its on mega or not. I thought this was normal.
> I can see it when using reg Sonar. But its sort of an after it happens thing. Not like perfectly "real time".
> Case in point,
> I was able to see where a fish came up off the bottom and it hit my jig. But I actually felt it first and when I looked down at my screen I could see where it had happened. As in past tense.
> ...


You really can only see it in "real time" with the RTS window visible. It's like flasher mode at that point.

If you want real time bites you need panoptix type stuff.


----------



## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

I just blew through most those posts as a few seemed a guess or with an IDK.
Which usually isn't a confidence booster for very many.

I'll try to address what I've gone back and read... 
(This goes for any brands I'm familiar with.)

Generally when I'm helping someone with a Sonar/GPS issue, I'm going off of my knowledge and I typically don't guess. 

Reset to defaults is not usually a good "fix" because of the settings like Steve mentioned. I can setup menus, views and settings in less than ten minutes, but it's a PITA for many because they're not familiar with the depth of menu options and haven't run software updates dozens and dozens of times.

The H5 unit is NOT Mega capable, never has been and probably never will be.

The newest Gen Helix don't have a dual beam transducer out of the box, they're HW Chirp (Dual Spectrum) utilizing the 130-240 kHz frequency range, whereas the Dual Beam Plus is utilizing the 75-95 and/or 175-225 kHz band(s) if Chirp. If not - then 83/200 kHz. 

The earliest Helix 5 & 7 did NOT have Chirp, and transmitted CW (Continuous Wave) which _IS_ traditional Sonar. 
The G2+3 _ARE_ Chirp and are capable of utilizing either the HW Chirp or the Dual Beam Plus (with a menu and hardware change), hence the reason I always refer to what you called traditional Sonar as 2D because Chirp and CW are vastly different in operation, target separation and functionality and I don't consider Chirp "traditional".

The cone angle of the DB+ is 20° on 200 kHz which only covers about two foot at best. 
The 83 kHz beam is too wide to give any details even if the beam is much wider, the pulse length is too long to discern any details in shallow. 
The smaller Helix models usually only cover 455/800 kHz for imaging and the Gen 2 larger units can use 1100-1300 kHz with the Gen 3/4 using something like 1075-1195 kHz to obtain the longest ranges yet along with eight kilowatts instead of 4000W like my Gen 2's topping out at 125'.


I only dropped by because Daniel mentioned me and Steve was more than welcome to contact me with questions as he can reiterate I've told him quite a few times if I can help, just to LMK. 

Hopefully this can clear up any confusion over what is available and capabilities of each machine because the HB website isn't as clear as it once was. 
I no longer have my HB training DVDs since I gave them to @Mike some time ago.
I told him to pass them on and AFAIK he's still got them because I can no longer afford to change my gear every model change like I once did. 
Timing is everything! 🙂


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

sfw1960 said:


> I just blew through most those posts as a few seemed a guess or with an IDK.
> Which usually isn't a confidence booster for very many.
> 
> I'll try to address what I've gone back and read...
> ...


I have only had reset work once. I was ice fishing for splake with an old 597cihd and whatever I must have done caused it to barely read bottom and certainly not mark my jig. Had no idea what went wrong so I reset. My fishing experience was restored. But yes, j had to turn off that awful beep lol. There are a lot of settings that are annoying, I agree!


----------



## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

I would prefer the beep volume be adjustable, but I usually choose the highest pitch beep because most guys with less than perfect hearing don't notice it and it doesn't carry as far - I believe it's off by default in ice mode but when OTW it's helpful with rougher seas. 
With a 597 DI I'm pretty sure you can change the default 2D to 455 kHz like my old 688 DI and that would NOT work well in deep water which I'm guessing you were in. 
I used it in shallow with "neighbors" to avoid the cross talk from the other units. 
That would have replicated your inability to reach down there and see!


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

sfw1960 said:


> I would prefer the beep volume be adjustable, but I usually choose the highest pitch beep because most guys with less than perfect hearing don't notice it and it doesn't carry as far - I believe it's off by default in ice mode but when OTW it's helpful with rougher seas.
> With a 597 DI I'm pretty sure you can change the default 2D to 455 kHz like my old 688 DI and that would NOT work well in deep water which I'm guessing you were in.
> I used it in shallow with "neighbors" to avoid the cross talk from the other units.
> That would have replicated your inability to reach down there and see!


Plain old 2d 83/200 on the 597CI HD.


----------



## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

Doh... ! 🤦🏻‍♂️
I still have DI on the brain! !
The 83 kHz can do a similar deal, it's happened to me in 55-60' ice fishing and sometimes a reboot can help - but you were probably best doing a reset to defaults - especially if you can fly through it quickly. 👌


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

sfw1960 said:


> Doh... ! 🤦🏻‍♂️
> I still have DI on the brain! !
> The 83 kHz can do a similar deal, it's happened to me in 55-60' ice fishing and sometimes a reboot can help - but you were probably best doing a reset to defaults - especially if you can fly through it quickly. 👌


I had exhausted all options aside from shoving it down the bleapin hole!

Caught a 26" splake over something like 79fow that day. And lost another after a short battle.


----------



## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

We've all had those kind of days lol


----------



## Mike (Nov 26, 2000)

@Steve I still have the DVD’s @sfw1960 gave me to watch. I live by Newaygo, work in GR, and usually end up in Traverse City once a week for work. Let me know if you’re around that area and want to meet up to grab them, or message me your address and I’ll mail them out…

Mike


----------



## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

You go @Mike !
🤘💪👌🤙


----------



## Erik (Jan 17, 2000)

I went back over some of the vids on HB settings. I think I know what I've been doing wrong. Well one of the things I've been doing wrong. Theres probably several.

I have my settings on clear and my switch fire on max. Didn't realize I was eliminating information. Guess it even effects the RTS image. I didn't know that. 
I'm going to try re setting that stuff tomorrow and see if it helps me see my jig better. Will report back next week when I get back.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Erik said:


> I went back over some of the vids on HB settings. I think I know what I've been doing wrong. Well one of the things I've been doing wrong. Theres probably several.
> 
> I have my settings on clear and my switch fire on max. Didn't realize I was eliminating information. Guess it even effects the RTS image. I didn't know that.
> I'm going to try re setting that stuff tomorrow and see if it helps me see my jig better. Will report back next week when I get back.


Maybe I'm wrong but I thought switchfire was either clear or max.


----------



## Erik (Jan 17, 2000)

Hmmm. your right. I'm not sure then what I was looking at. Made sense at the moment. 
I remember setting the switch fire to max, but theres another setting, I thought it was another setting, I've been setting it to clear. I remember seeing it, but now can't remember where I was when I set it. I just remember setting it to clear cause I was getting a bunch of interference. And when I set it to clear it was much cleaner. 

I've got a lot to learn


----------



## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Is the transducer mounted on the trolling motor or at the back of boat?

Sent from my SM-S901U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

Yes that's either clear or Max (on the switch fire) @Erik - there are other settings under the Sonar tab for interference reject and additional a noise filter setting. The more stuff you turn off or down the more you'll see. The thing is most less experienced users aren't sure what they're looking at, so they generally complain instead of investigate and learn about raw returns!
So HB made "feature easy" settings to make people happy. I almost _*never*_ run clear and my displays are always pretty "dirty" with the surface clutter/ clarity (SCC on some units) and settings are off or low.
Probably what you were poking around in earlier? 🤔
The advanced settings are definitely your friend...


----------



## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

This is the unit I have. Nothing fancy for sure. Will probably have to take it out on a lake and just play with it instead of fishing.


----------



## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

Steve said:


> This is the unit I have. Nothing fancy for sure. Will probably have to take it out on a lake and just play with it instead of fishing.


@Steve - did you miss an attachment?
😜
I'm not seeing the unit you have!

Set the menus to advanced first - then...
I'd suggest turning off the SCC and/ or noise filters, switch fire to Max, set gain to 14 to start and don't plan on fishing for at least a few hours, bring a stick so you can put a jig down and depending on which model transducer, set the frequency ranges to as wide as you can (probably 175-225 kHz) and expect you would still have a hard time seeing anything except about 2’ circle in ten fow. You should see a bunch of screen clutter but should be seeing the jig at times.
There's a silver tag about a foot from the cable end - it's probably a XNT 9 20 T which is the ol Dual Beam Plus 83/200 kHz model, LMK when you get a chance to look at it...

✌🍀


----------



## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

Mk




  








20220717_090639.jpg




__
Steve


__
6 mo ago












  








20220717_090645.jpg




__
Steve


__
6 mo ago












  








20220717_090732.jpg




__
Steve


__
6 mo ago












  








20220715_233023.jpg




__
Steve


__
6 mo ago










sfw1960 said:


> @Steve - did you miss an attachment?
> 😜
> I'm not seeing the unit you have!
> 
> ...





sfw1960 said:


> @Steve - did you miss an attachment?
> 😜
> I'm not seeing the unit you have!
> 
> ...


Here are my tags from the head unit and the ducer.





  








20220717_090639.jpg




__
Steve


__
6 mo ago












  








20220717_090645.jpg




__
Steve


__
6 mo ago












  








20220717_090732.jpg




__
Steve


__
6 mo ago












  








20220715_233023.jpg




__
Steve


__
6 mo ago


----------



## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

sfw1960 said:


> @Steve - did you miss an attachment?
> 😜
> I'm not seeing the unit you have!
> 
> ...


I don't know what scc is.


----------



## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

My switch fire is set to clear. Surface clutter 2, di chirp freq is 800khz, 2d chirp freq is high, zoom width is wide, 455khz freq is 0 on scale of -10 to 10, noise filter is off, connected transducer is set to display 200/455 kHz, di pings is 2d+di.


----------



## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

It's a Helix 5 Chirp DI GPS G2 with a Navionics bundle - the DI model has a different size piezo element in the XDCR than the 83/200 model.
The yellow tag is the XDCR model number.
XNT 9 DI T and it IS a down imaging model... 
SCC is surface clarity control. 
It also works opposite of what most would expect, up is down and down is up - if that makes any sense...
You definitely have to adjust that so you're getting MORE surface clutter on-screen - and I'm still not very sure you're going to see your jig because of the small cone coverage but we'll see after you crank up the sensitivity to over 12-14 at least. 
*Second menu option down* is Chirp range - open it and widen the 200 kHz band to the upper/lower maximums (should be around 185 - 235 kHz for a H5DI) the down imaging at 800 kHz gives you better definition but less coverage, that also has a sweep range you can open up past default - you might consider the 455 kHz range though, which is like 435-535 kHz, don't recall exactly as I sold mine a few years ago and the MDI/MSI ranges likely differ.
Definitely set switch fire to Max on the 2D and if you want on DI. The SCC and Max will make a world of different by itself and I'm guessing when you pump up the gain along with the other settings you might be able to keep on your jig better.👌

I'd have to dig into my H10MDI after charging the battery for more ideas but the picture should help on the settings.

LMK how it goes! 
RAS


----------



## Jiw275 (Jan 1, 2015)

Robert, thanks for the information. 

Good luck Steve.


----------



## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

Just trying to pay it forward as best I can...
TY for the kind words!


----------



## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

Turning "up" SCC is actually decreasing the filtering (moving the control to the right) - which is bass-ackwards from other other OEMs. 🤷🏻‍♂️
You can also turn off the "color bar" for more screen real estate if you haven't already under the Sonar tab.

When you've made the changes you should have a pretty cluttered screen - but with the differing colors it's still quite easy to identify targets in the surface clutter, bottom items and weeds.
This is my H10MDI G2N running simulator on a High Wide Chirp XNT 9 HW T model XDCR selected, and the display is pretty "dirty" yet plenty of details are shown.

I don't think even the _latest_ software for the H5G2's can use that without putting it into "ice mode" as another person posted quite some time ago.

In "ice mode" the XI 1521 ($105 MSRP) is an available selection and the unit could be effectively "fooled" to utilize the XNT 9 HW T ($105 MSRP) and that's what I'm using for my oversized "Ice Helix" 10 though I could have kept using the stock HW MDI transducer.
I've been _tempted_ to flash my H12MSI G2N with the newer firmware, but the H10MDI is heavy enough & can still see it with my bad eyes!

The ice XDCRs have been almost impossible to source and they are basically the same thing with a different housing and a thermistor built in the skimmer version. I just used a bit of ¾” UHMW HDPE to fab an articulating arm like the other ones I've been making/using since way before the "ice machine" was a thing... 😉
The Lowrance LMS332c was probably the first using the plastic because my first LCD was an Eagle Z-6000 and I used a wooden chair arm on that with the Lowrance portable box after I cut out the dual 6v lantern battery guts and added the 7 amp SLA 🤣
This would work on a trolling motor as well using ice mode... But I doubt you want to sink another hundred into it!









Humminbird Xtm-9-Hw-T Dual Spectrum Chirp Trolling Motor Transducer W/Temp F/Helix


HUMMINBIRD XTM9HWT TROLLING MOTOR MOUNT TRANSDUCERXTM9HT Dual Spectrum CHIRP Trolling Motor Transducer with Temp for HELIXregTrolling Motor Dual Spectrum CHIRP Transducer supports Dual Spectrum CHIRP 2D Sonar with high frequency beam and wide...




www.hodgesmarine.com


----------



## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

In case people want to know about some of the HB products beam angles.... 

*AND* 
Yes Virginia, these things indeed do see ALL the way to the surface with SI.
MSI, MSI+ or plain old vanilla SI! I've pointed it out to a few people out OTW... 

I've also posted a picture or two of that but many probably never noticed because they haven't learned to read the unit as well as they can perform!


----------



## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

sfw1960 said:


> In case people want to know about some of the HB products beam angles....
> 
> *AND*
> Yes Virginia, these things indeed do see ALL the way to the surface with SI.
> ...


This is exactly what I needed to see. Looks like all my beams are too narrow for the depth of water I fish. Also I wonder - does the unit automatically detect the correct transducer, or is it up to you to set that somewhere?


----------



## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

Unit doesn't auto detect.

The default for the H5DI is probably just called DI or 2D/DI.
The 455 can also be used on 2D which is even more narrow so ensure 200 is selected though I'm pretty sure you understand that the lower the frequency the larger the cone coverage is (except the imaging frequencies are a fan shape beam).

Reset to default will set the unit to it's default transducer also.

@Steve 
I'll try to see if my H10MDI has a XDCR selection for the regular DI and what it's called in the menu.


----------



## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

@Steve my H10MDI says DI 200/455 but your connected XDCR entry may be different in the labeling.
It's definitely not HB 200/83 though!


----------

