# What would you do???



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

So I've got a camera set up watching where beaver come up to get their timber. At first I expected to see deer and beaver. Well... there is a group of at least 4 otter, bunch of ****, coyote, 2 or 3 beaver and a large bobcat...

I have a very limited time to trap. Nov 5-10 and Nov 14-16 ( if I dare set foot around the area). So bobcat is out of the question due to season. My desired catch(es) would be ranked high to low as: otter, coyote, beaver.

So... I'm looking for a way to 1. Not harvest more than one otter (2 would still be legal though) and 2. Maximize odds of more than one species.

The otter and beaver come in from the creek through a 3-4 ft wide channel into a small 20x30 ft shallow pond. They typically go to the far end where the camera is, and up the bank where the beaver have worn nice runs into it. The beaver den does not appear to be on the property (private). I do not know where the otter live either, unfortunately, but it's safe to assume not on the property because the edge just clips the creek and includes the small pond.

The coyote likes to check out the top of the beaver run. I cant tell from pics exactly where he walks, but I know where he stands. It's the same place beaver and otter roam... and the beaver is dragging small trees over the area, of course.

I have a bunch of #3 4-coil foot traps and a few body gripping in 220 and 330.

Here is a map of my first thought... F is for foothold and C for conibear. Of course conibear would be in the water. I was thinking conibear in the main opening from creek to pond, then one in each run up out of the pond. Then, foothold on/at the top of the run(s).








Now, as I think about it, I'd be basically setting a mine field lol. Maybe overkill and end up with nothing? Though I dont want ****, they are so thick I have a feeling they could be incidental. 

Any suggestions? Attractant/scents? Kinda looking for a more experienced trapper's insight.


----------



## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Set for beaver, hope for otter. Set the crawl out spots, trap half in water on 330s, pinch points. I'd use a foothold also for otter/beaver at a crawl out. Set all your traps to increase odds.
Beaver Castor for lure, no real good lure for otter.
If I don't have a week or more, i wouldn't bother with coyote.

That pinch point by the creek would be an ideal spot if it is narrow or could be narrowed down and put a 330 or two there. Otter usually have large ranges so getting one can take some time. Beaver are relatively easy until educated.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

FREEPOP said:


> Set for beaver, hope for otter. Set the crawl out spots, trap half in water on 330s, pinch points. I'd use a foothold also for otter/beaver at a crawl out. Set all your traps to increase odds.
> Beaver Castor for lure, no real good lure for otter.
> If I don't have a week or more, i wouldn't bother with coyote.
> 
> That pinch point by the creek would be an ideal spot if it is narrow or could be narrowed down and put a 330 or two there. Otter usually have large ranges so getting one can take some time. Beaver are relatively easy until educated.


Yea I can narrow the creek entry point, or somehow block a portion and put in a couple 330s. Probably a fence of a few vertical sticks would work. If I block I'm assuming theyll just rip it down but hopefully not before they get smacked.

The otter are on cam pretty frequent (every couple days) so I am at least a little hopeful.

I'm worried about the foot traps freezing (and the pond for that matter). I guess I might have to pony up for some waxed dirt for the price of gold. In the past I've seen a huge drop in the use of that pond once it ices over. They use it heavily in October but that's obviously not an option.

I have about a doz foot traps lol. Literally could be a mine field at those 2 spots. I suppose then the coyote could walk through and I just might get lucky. He's been there quite a bit...

Then again if I set where the yote stands, I have a feeling the darn deer will set off every trap. I had set 2 overnight on the edges of a 2 track where yotes poop, dirt hole, no scent at all and both were tripped empty in the morning.


----------



## Fool'em (Sep 29, 2016)

I would stuff that creek with 330s. Block it completely off with traps side by side. Couple blocking sticks if necessary. 
Then set a couple climb outs and or bank dens in the pond. 
Check that point under the arrow marked C otter could pop out of the river and cross that point somewhere. Set both ends of the crossover if you have the traps. 

Dirt hole set for coyote wouldn’t hurt. If you want it away from the pond bank just backtrack a little. Probably if nothing else you could pick up a nice **** in a dirt hole. Otter could hit it as well. 
Make sure you bring your catch pole so when you end up with a cat your prepared.


----------



## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

I been out of the game too long....

For yote I'd set up a pee post.
I moved the rock I had placed and my trapper has scored with , but it was where yotes worked it , but deer did not. More deer than yotes on that edge though.
(I learned years ago deer liked certain **** sets with sweet lure... So pee for yotes seemed safer in regards to nontargeted encounters.)

While establishing a pee post off the hotter otter potential , a castor mound could be built to test reaction in a popular beaver haul out.
Not sure where they are cutting currently , but they are likely leaving sign of worn areas. 
Just off a haul out still risks dragged branches , but that requires beaver to have passed already.


With **** around ,fish or shellfish to test bait otter is not going to work as well as a low **** count area.
Blind wet coni's at otter pinch points might be worth setting.

Yotes , I need to learn the difference between a little scent vs. more scent vs a lot of scent.
A recent discussion has fueled curiosity as to response/reaction to strength of scent (or more importantly ,what part of a scent) with a canine.
Living with a dozen I've watched how a little vs a lot can cause anything from sniffing, to digging ,to rolling.
Just as my friend mentioned. But why? And can a sets efficiency be enhanced by volume of scent different from lure after canine is at the set?
The answer wants to be yes.
Factors affecting scent are varied though.

I've gone past my trappers previous set points months after season and gotten a whiff still...
So a lot has worked for him. For some canines. Not all though.
My guess is they get pinched before they can get farther into investigating/reaction.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Fool'em said:


> I would stuff that creek with 330s. Block it completely off with traps side by side. Couple blocking sticks if necessary.
> Then set a couple climb outs and or bank dens in the pond.
> Check that point under the arrow marked C otter could pop out of the river and cross that point somewhere. Set both ends of the crossover if you have the traps.
> 
> ...


Got 3-330s and 3-220s. I'm guessing 220 would be fine for an otter but borderline for the beaver. I could set em all and cross my fingers.

Might just blow the whole place out and scare them all off setting traps though lol.


----------



## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

sureshot006 said:


> Got 3-330s and 3-220s. I'm guessing 220 would be fine for an otter but borderline for the beaver. I could set em all and cross my fingers.
> 
> Might just blow the whole place out and scare them all off setting traps though lol.


You won't scare anything but the coyote because he's always a scared little bully.


----------



## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

I'd definitely set a couple footholds for the otter on drowning rigs. I've had problems with getting them to go thru fenced down areas. Those #3s are on the small side for beaver but can work on a front foot.


----------



## 9 (Jan 17, 2000)

Waif said:


> .
> My guess is they get pinched before they can get farther into investigating/reaction.


That’s the WHY of it!


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Seldom said:


> That’s the WHY of it!


Ya I knew that's the main thing to try because it appears it's the entry both otter and beaver use. The yote... I have a suspicion he likes the deer trail along the tree line/tall weeds. I'm guessing he likes to visit because there is so much potential prey activity there.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

FREEPOP said:


> I'd definitely set a couple footholds for the otter on drowning rigs. I've had problems with getting them to go thru fenced down areas. Those #3s are on the small side for beaver but can work on a front foot.


Yea they're on the small side but then again I've been more lucky than that. I got a huge beaver, bout 50-55# a few years back on a plain Jane #2 straight outta cabelas. The way I'm probably gonna set up it'll have all 4 feet and its tail pinned lol.

I have a bunch of peat moss... you guys think that'll keep the traps from freezing better or worse than waxed dirt/sand?


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

FREEPOP said:


> You won't scare anything but the coyote because he's always a scared little bully.


Walked out there to grab the camera card in the dark one night. Beaver let me know its displeasure. Otter showed up an hour later.


----------



## 9 (Jan 17, 2000)

sureshot006 said:


> I have a bunch of peat moss... you guys think that'll keep the traps from freezing better or worse than waxed dirt/sand?


Remember, peat and waxed soil are completely different. Peat allows water to seep/run through with very minimal absorption and waxed soil sheds water completely with no penetration.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Seldom said:


> Remember, peat and waxed soil are completely different. Peat allows water to seep/run through with very minimal absorption and waxed soil sheds water completely with no penetration.


I've never used waxed dirt. I assumed it would soak through but not stick. The soil is very... well a lot of clay. Holds water in a bowl basically. I will give wax a shot


----------



## 9 (Jan 17, 2000)

sureshot006 said:


> I've never used waxed dirt. I assumed it would soak through but not stick. The soil is very... well a lot of clay. Holds water in a bowl basically. I will give wax a shot


For either peat or waxed soil, use a cable stake and the hole left by the driver becomes a sump for collecting water that either runs through the peat or around waxed soil. Almost like one of those plastic rain gauges that have a funnel-type mouth that feeds to a calibrated tube. The upside of the cable stake hole is that collected water can escape into the soil instead of being just held and filling up.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Seldom said:


> For either peat or waxed soil, use a cable stake and the hole left by the driver becomes a sump for collecting water that either runs through the peat or around waxed soil. Almost like one of those plastic rain gauges that have a funnel-type mouth that feeds to a calibrated tube. The upside of the cable stake hole is that collected water can escape into the soil instead of being just held and filling up.


Sounds like a good idea. I think the clay is a little deeper in this area so it might work well.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

I think I have a bottle of castor from about 6 years ago... any good? Been in a sealed bucket in the garage.

On that topic... I've been thinking of the deer. Will they be even more curious and be more likely to trip the foot traps with a scent? I was considering putting a scent past the foot traps, near where they are chewing down the trees.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

So here's what I think is going on. Blue is critter travel (SW to NE is deer/bobcat/coyote). red is where the beaver are doing their dirty work (they take it out to the creek and head north).


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)




----------



## Drakedog (Feb 28, 2019)

beaver are fairly easy to trap if you have good sign, castor mound-drowning rig


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Drakedog said:


> beaver are fairly easy to trap if you have good sign, castor mound-drowning rig


Yea I've caught a few there before. I quit because I didnt want to totally eliminate them. This time I am more about getting an otter than anything because I've never caught one. Never knew they were even around there until a couple years ago when my dad saw small beaver looking things jump across the channel. He couldnt tell they were otter from that distance but we figured they had to be based on how they jumped.

The beaver this year look pretty small relative to the ones I've caught there before. The challenge this time is the limited days to trap. Might be a few days where they don't even come around.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Sitting in a stand couple hundred yards from the beaver. I can hear it in the water. Now chewing! (Or grinding its teeth??? Hard to tell) Should have set a coni out last night... woulda heard a SNAP instead.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

48 pounder first night at the entrance to the pond. It's starting to ice over so I'm worried the conis sticking out of the surface wont fire right


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Also had one 330 tripped with nobody home. Thinking it tried to climb over. I did have branches over top of it but still coulda.

Why set with the trigger up vs down?


----------



## kdx1980 (May 15, 2012)

I am going to show my ignorance here not even sure how i ended up in this forum lol but what do you do with the animals? eat them, for pelts, just to eliminate a nuisance?


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

kdx1980 said:


> I am going to show my ignorance here not even sure how i ended up in this forum lol but what do you do with the animals? eat them, for pelts, just to eliminate a nuisance?


Both nuisance (beaver) and I am going to tan the pelts for decor in my 1/10th of the house.

The beaver are destroying an area of perfect deer cover. And soon, the creek would be backed up pretty good.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

FREEPOP said:


> That pinch point by the creek would be an ideal spot if it is narrow or could be narrowed down and put a 330 or two there.


The pinch point is wide enough that even with a good "fairly leap" I can barely make it across without wet feet. Also, it's about 1.75 x a 330 depth. For width I got lucky... there are 2 old root balls on either side, narrowing it to almost exactly the width of a 330 with springs outstretched. That's where I caught the beaver last night. I had trouble setting it because of how deep the water is. I held it up with wire from spring to stake.

Now... the pond is skim iced over since this morning and by tomorrow will likely be almost walkable. I might still have a chance at the entrance if one comes to investigate but I'm thinking it might be over for the beavers exit in the opposite end. Probably wont go there and the traps will be half in the ice and I've never seen where they continue to use it after it freezes up. Not confident the conis will fire well enough to catch with the ice anyway.

Oh, those footholds were #4-4 coil, not #3. I had a brain fart. I didnt have time the other day but I set a few on the crawl outs with waxed dirt. Trouble there might be washing out... when I dug in, there was water flow. The swamp above drains through the soil into the pond.

Forgot the dang castor... might bring em in even with the ice. Might do that yet tonight. Never used a lure for beaver... should it be close by or just depend on them using that pinch point?


----------



## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

#4 coils, traps about 18" from bank, in the pond, "5 from center. If beaver still go in there they will pop up thru the ice for air occasionally. There will also be bubble trails. Lure 6-8" off the edge of water on a pile of fresh mud. Fresh mud can work in lue of Castor, it's how they mark their territory, but it's better with the lure. Sticks from poplar, maple or soft woods will work for bait too.
If the creek has good moving water, it won't freeze up and that's what I'd look to set. Set all the pull outs, make some new ones and hope the otter use one.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

FREEPOP said:


> #4 coils, traps about 18" from bank, in the pond, "5 from center. If beaver still go in there they will pop up thru the ice for air occasionally. There will also be bubble trails. Lure 6-8" off the edge of water on a pile of fresh mud. Fresh mud can work in lue of Castor, it's how they mark their territory, but it's better with the lure. Sticks from poplar, maple or soft woods will work for bait too.
> If the creek has good moving water, it won't freeze up and that's what I'd look to set. Set all the pull outs, make some new ones and hope the otter use one.


It does have good moving water so the entrance wont freeze quite yet. Been looking at the banks along the entrance for a place to set but nothing has climbed up. I might be able to narrow the entrance right at the creek without too much trouble, to pinch them a bit more.

I'm not sure the water in the pond is deep enough for them to come in and get out. Pretty shallow except the entrance, which is probably my best bet aside from the footholds on land, which I have set on the crawl outs, particularly where I have seen otter standing in pictures. Might be able to bust it up a little and set under water.

There is one path into the pond that is much more narrow than the others. Guessing it's either **** or otter using it... no tracks visible though. I have not set it yet but will this afternoon. 

Havent had the otter around since last weekend and their frequency (if any indication) would put them due to arrive any day now!

Thank you for the advice.

Any advice for skinning beaver?! I had forgotten what a PITA it is to try to skin them clean. The back takes FOREVER!!


----------



## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

I don't clean skin them, I rough skin, freeze and then flesh on a beam later in the comfort of the basement. Yes, lots of cartilage and gristle on the back.

Razor sharp tools and the correct angle of attack will make any of the chores almost effortless.


----------



## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

Look for an otter toilet. It will be grey matter filled with fish scales. Generally they will have a trail going to it. Set the trail where it comes out of the water. Every otter will use it. I have taken most of my otter with a 220 where they come out of the water.

If you have any big ant hills around, the dirt in them will not absorb water as it is waxed by the ants. Just sift a little natural dirt over the set to disguise the ant hill dirt. One night we got a few inches of rain. When I tried to scrape the wet natural dirt off of the set, so it would not freeze, I triggered the trap getting a face full of anthill dirt in my face. I do not think spitting the ant hill dirt out of my mouth helped the coyote set.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

multibeard said:


> Look for an otter toilet. It will be grey matter filled with fish scales. Generally they will have a trail going to it. Set the trail where it comes out of the water. Every otter will use it. I have taken most of my otter with a 220 where they come out of the water.
> 
> If you have any big ant hills around, the dirt in them will not absorb water as it is waxed by the ants. Just sift a little natural dirt over the set to disguise the ant hill dirt. One night we got a few inches of rain. When I tried to scrape the wet natural dirt off of the set, so it would not freeze, I triggered the trap getting a face full of anthill dirt in my face. I do not think spitting the ant hill dirt out of my mouth helped the coyote set.


I've got a very limited area to trap because of a property line. I've looked around and this pond is my only real choice.

No ant hills I can think of around here but if I'm out somewhere and find some I will remember your advice!


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

FREEPOP said:


> I don't clean skin them, I rough skin, freeze and then flesh on a beam later in the comfort of the basement. Yes, lots of cartilage and gristle on the back.
> 
> Razor sharp tools and the correct angle of attack will make any of the chores almost effortless.


I used a havalon knife (the replaceable blade style) which is SUPER sharp. I replaced the blade cuz I thought it was getting dull... nope lol. Will rough skin next time since that would have taken only a few minutes.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

A slightly smaller one, 44# is waiting to be skinned.

I have to hike them about 350 yards, uphill the whole way, back to camp. Now I realize why trappers use sleds and backpacks. Darn things are awkward and heavy.


----------



## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

I use this for many things besides trapping. Well worth the money IMO

https://loringoutdoors.com/products/pack-baskets/24-pack-basket/


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Oh, the beaver i got today had made it past the first one at the pinch point without triggering the trap. I'm 90% sure it went under it. Luckily, one of the others is in a good spot where water is leaching through the soil and preventing freezing, for now. So it appears it IS deep enough for them to travel under the ice to the opposite end.

In light of this, I have lowered the pinch point trap so it is fully submerged and will not freeze, and blocked it well on top, with only a couple inches underneath. Theyll have to push it over, go around or go through.

Not sure if it helped or not but I did put castor out last night.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

No critters today. Checked the camera and no target species. Did have coyote on cam and saw yote tracks where I had seen some poo on the 2 track, at the corner of a chunk of woods where it opens to field. I wont have but 2 days but I'm gonna set the west side of the trail playing on the prevailing wind, when I get back there. The yotes will be hanging around with the beaver carcasses not too far away.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

So the otter has a rusty trap mark on its fur. What's the best way to clean that off?


----------



## BumpRacerX (Dec 31, 2009)

sureshot006 said:


> So the otter has a rusty trap mark on its fur. What's the best way to clean that off?


I have no clue. But if I'm reading this right, congrats on your otter!


----------



## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

sureshot006 said:


> So the otter has a rusty trap mark on its fur. What's the best way to clean that off?


Vinegar


----------

