# Rape over clover?



## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

This Spring, I mixed in some clover with my rape. Both are coming in great, but the deer are hammering the rape. I don't think there'll be much rape left by August. Question, even if the deer eat the rape down to 3" high, will it come back for the fall? Or could I just broadcast more rape over the existing clover in August. I don't want to destroy the clover that is there. What's the best bet to have rape in the fall?


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2004)

Bob;

By all means spread more forage rape (4 lbs per acre) over this existing plot if the rape plants look like they are spaced far apart. Otherwise if they are close but eaten probably no improvement will be gained.

Rape can take a pretty good hit providing it has established its roots, which it appears is the case. I have in more than one instance seen forage rape eaten to within two inches of the ground in late summer and keep right on growing new leaves thru mid December. Rape with a good root base will just keep on growing even into early January with a snow covering. 

The answer bob, may be more forage rape in your hunting property. Is this the first experience you have with planting rape ? If it is, you are lucky for many times deer need to learn to like the stuff. I know of many food plotters that would like to have your experience. 

As mentioned, more rape plots may help. There is plenty of time to establish them. I normally plant forage rape from mid April to the first of June for deer maintenance plots, then again in differant plots (small deer attractant type) from late July to mid August. Bob, do you have the space to add this summer? It is already established that your deer are rape happy.

By the power vested in me by the members of the Michigan Sportsmen Forum I hereby oppoint you, BOB @ BTT the "Official Rape Artist" of this forum. 

Bob,your only responsibility is to create several outstanding rape fields and report back to us your experience of rape on this forum after the 2004 deer season.

Keep the fun in hunting!


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

Bob,

I run into this problem every year and if in your case you rely on that brassica for the best part of hunting season to be a great attraction, you may be very dissappointed if there isn't any there and your deer go elsewhere.

It's a great, great forage for the summer time though, even if it doesn't last into fall, so that's why if frost seed it into my plots with clover in the spring(last fall's plantings), and then concentrate more on the grain/clover plantings for the fall.

You may want to try another broadcasting of brassica right now like Ed pointed out, but come about the first part of September if it looks like it will end up fairly low sparse, try a good dose of grain, such as wheat or annual rye. At that point I usually go with about 100#'s per acre and it ends up being a real nice draw for hunting season.


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## gunrod (Jan 16, 2001)

I find that surprising Bob. Even in our limited plots we've found the deer take the clover over the rape to the point of eating the clover down to the ground and not giving it much time to root.

In defense of the rape, we just started planting it last year in very sandy soils so it hasn't taken off much where the clover plot is in it's third or fourth year. We hope for better results this year with it being the second season. 

Our little clover plot seems to be the key to the deer in our area. We can't hunt it without being busted but once it's gone the deer in the area are gone. We hunt the perimeter of it and near the rape plots. We found that if we leave the deer alone in the clover plot we can hunt them coming and going. 

I'll have to keep an eye on it to see if it begins out producing the clover.


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## brokenarrow (Oct 6, 2003)

Gunrod
You re-planted the rape this year? , ( When you say), "this being the second year" correct?


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## gunrod (Jan 16, 2001)

Not yet. We are planting late (August) intentionally this spring. We found alot of the clover and rape had problems in this area when planted early. Mostly because of the sandy soil and dry summers. If we had known this spring was going to be so wet we may have planted earlier.

And when I talk about food plots we measure ours in feet where many of you measure yours in acres. Our largest plot is about 40' X 40'. These plots are about a half mile back in the woods in thick stuff. We do them by hand so we are limited in how big they can be.


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

Gunrod,

Don't know where you are at, but around here August 1st is already too late for brassica. You want to time your planting about 6-8 weeks before your expected first frost, with 8 weeks better than 6. Especially on those size plots, the brassicas can become quickly consumed, even overnight. On the other hand, a good grain mixture can compete favorably in colder temps and you will experience re-growth with small warm-ups.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

Ed, the deer did the same last year, they hit the rape pretty hard in the Summer. But it seems like they're hitting it even harder this year. What I planted was "shot plot". We sell it at the store. Here's the link...http://www.ehoutdoors.com
Then click the shot plot link. Shot plot is a premium mixture of forage brassicas developed in New Zealand. The site claims "ShotPlot provides forage quickly by growing over 24 inches tall in about 45 days and once the Brassicas are mature, deer will begin to devour them as the forage plants surge with growth to replace the devoured leaves." Mine only got about 8" tall before the deer started on them. Now all the plots are uniformly mowed to like 3-4".
Could this be a better blend of seed and maybe the deer like it earlier in the year? Jason from the store is having the same experience with the shot plot on his property. It's funny because everything I've read is how the deer mainly hit rape after the first frost. Well I'm here to attest that that's bunk. At least by me and my local experience. Now, it could be that I'm the only guy around with food plots (I have 6 and am working on another right now and maybe one more for next year) and the deer have no other plot options. Add to that that I've been doing lots of tree cutting and my second growth is getting pretty darn thick and lush and much of my neighboring property is in dire need of cutting. So I may have most of the deer in my area sucked into my place. I have to admit that, despite my endless complaining about the deer numbers on my property the last 5 years, I've seen more deer this year than in quite a while. I saw 5 again this morning while driving back to clear out that new field, before I came into work. I have yet to drive in the back, since March, without seeing at least one deer! No skunks! Perhaps my place was so thin right after the cutting that the deer vacated, but are now back in good numbers, due to the re-growth and food plots? I'm not sure, but something very positive seems to be happening. I have no problem being the brassica guinea pig. LOL So far, I couldn't be happier with the stuff. As mentioned, my only concern is still having some left for Fall. Although, my main purpose for the plots is to give the deer something good for the Summer, for overall Summer nutrition and hopefully bonus antler growth. But the jury is still out on the later. 
I did have one question about planting the brassica's. I've asked this before, but I'm still not clear. We have two plots that are powdery yellowish sand. It's very loose when plowed up. I've limed them to where the ph is in the decent mid 6's. But we plowed them up this Spring and I used the quad spreader to spread the shot plot on the loose dirt. The shot plot basically came in very lush in all of my tire tracks, but is very poor everywhere else, where I did not drive over. Although, with running the quad, I do have lots of tire tracks. I do not have a packer or a roller and with all the other camp expenses, probably won't get one for the next year or so. I do have a heavy duty harrow drag. So here's what I'm asking, for next Spring, am I better off plowing it up, then running the harrow drag over it to flatten it out, then seed the plot? Or, am I better off not plowing it up at all and just tearing it up with the harrow drag and then seeding it? For that matter, am I better off doing that in all the plots, if mainly planting brassica's and some clover. Is a firmer bed with the top 2-3" tore up a safe bet with my sandy soil? I was just wondering because the soil is pretty loose and fluffy after it's plowed in the Spring. Thanks for any advice and I'll keep everyone posted. BTW, of the 5 deer I saw today, 3 were eating the rape, and at 10am!


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

Oh yeah, so if I do have some open patches in the plot, I'm fine with continually spreading some shot plot through out the Summer so there's always some new brassica's coming up? And it will do OK if I do that during July? Is that my understanding? I think that's what you meant.


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2004)

Hi BOB:

Welcome to the school of hard knocks.

Yes, I know that story of how tire tracks grow forage while the rest of the broadcasted plot is spotty at best. This occurs as you noted in lighter soil. 

I had a hard time convincing one fellow in northern Michigan to work in his broadcasted rape and yes, even clover seed lightly with a disk before he went over it with his cultipacker. This is light soil probably like yours BOB. Only after I threatened him with mayhem did he relent to follow my instructions. 

He planted a brassica mix in two ways in a half acre field in an early and dry August. His way and mine. He absolutely grew not a single plant by broadcasting on bare soil then cultipacking. With my suggestion of working the fertilizer into the soil, then broadcasting the seed, followed by a light (2 inchs deep) double disking then a cultipacking this skeptic grew in the lighest dry soil imaginable 18 inch high brassica that the deer couldn't keep away from after they found out what it was. He now thinks that I may know something about food plots, but not much else. 


Rule of thumb no. 1, the smaller the seed the shallower the depth of planting. Rule of thumb no. 2, don't pay attention to rule number one in light soil or dry conditions. 

Keep the fun in hunting!


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

Ed, since my food plot knowledge light bulb is only about 40 watts, you have to bear with me and walk me through this for next Spring. I have no packer, but I do have a neighbor with a tractor that disks up my plots for me in the Spring. I do have a nice heavy duty harrow drag for my quad. Are you suggesting that, next Spring, I put down my fertilizer (and maybe some more lime), run the drag over it (it does rough up the soil pretty good and a few inches deep), then putting down my seed and then running the drag back over everything again? That would cover up the seed pretty good. Or are you saying disk it up, put down the fert and seed, then run the drag over it? Sorry for my ignorance. Thanks. And like I said, you're dealing with a food plot novice here that just happened to finally have some great luck with some brassica's. I still have much to learn.


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2004)

Hi BOB:

It takes some time, but BOB, you will get with the program. Yeah, why not run that drag to rough up the soil ,work in the fertilizer and seed. You can top it off by running your ATV over the plot as a cultipacker, I have done it many times when I was too lazy to go back and hitch up the packer. This not a bad way to accomplish good seed soil contact on small plots. Bob you will need to keep your eyes open for conditions as they exist and how they may affect the outcome. This includes soil moisture, rain being emminint, soil type, which is a major factor and plot maintenance.

By the way a drag is a very effective tillage tool. 

Keep the fun in hunting


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

Thanks for the tips Ed, keep em coming they are certainly well appreciated!

Bob,

Congrats on the deer "explosion" on the property! I'm sure it's been a ton of hard work and streches your budget to the max, but it's well worth it in the end and it sounds like you are starting to see that. I've found that that same explosion will take place every year for a few years at least(I haven't seen the end yet), and each year is just as dramatic for tracks, rubs, scrapes, sightings, total number of deer, number of bucks, etc. 

One thing I'm wondering though is can you have enough brassica going into hunting season on property that the deer seem to readily consume brassicas as if they were alfalfa or clover, eating them at any stage of growth? One of the beauties of brassica on some property is that they are NOT touched until the rut, gun season, muzzleloader, late bow, whatever. But, on property where they will consume them in May, can enough brassicas ever be planted on the typical limited acreage of us weeked recreational farmers to leave a substantial crop during the rut? On my largest, central field I have(a little over 2 acres and it is adjacent to a 1 acre area) considered planting the entire field in a brassica clover blend in hopes it would be enough for the deer through the migration but I'm just not sure. The only consolation is that I can spread 200#'s of rye on the field in mid-September if the plot looks depleted, who knows.


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## DEERSLAYER (Mar 29, 2000)

BOB, 

Now I know where all the deer went from the state land on your east side! LOL. Used to be a good spot to see deer but they seem to have vanished (getting to be to many hunters anyway  ). Hopefully you are getting enough cover to hold them during daylight. In the past I would see some nice bucks that were at least 2 1/2, cross the road on your east side (you know which road) as I was comeing back from hunting in the evening. They seemed to hold up on the other private property in the thicker part of the swamp untill dark. I would see them crossing during the rut.


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2004)

Jeff:

Nothing wrong with Rye Grain, but wheat is better and will last longer in the nutritious and palatble stage. There are not to many forages that I can think of that can compete with a brasica mix for late fall and early winter in the UP. The protien content is around 30% and if turnips are included in the mix you now have a good energy source.

Yes, Jeff there is a point where you will have enough rape to not worry about it being gone and therefore a useless plot during the fall. I found it to be around two acres. You still need to stay with a grain and certainly a clover mix for near year round nutrition in the UP.

Keep the fun in hunting!


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