# Moving to Warren, tributary in town?



## ogie (Dec 31, 2011)

Hey all,

I'm moving to Warren friday to start a new job. I was looking around on google maps and it looks like there's a tributary that comes off the Clinton and into Warren, going all the way down to about a mile away from my apartment. Does anyone know if this is fishable? Would be nice to have something I could ride a bike to and toss a line in. I'll be living off Van **** on 13 mile so any other information about fishing in the area would be appreciated. Not expecting much but it never hurts to ask.


----------



## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

Thats the Red Run Drain. Thanks to Oakland County it is an open sewer any time we get a decent rain. There are carp in there but I would seriously be reluctant to come in contact with the water at any time.


----------



## ogie (Dec 31, 2011)

Ah =/, and here I thought I got lucky and had somewhere good to fish close by... I notice it breaks off about 3 or 4 miles up from where I'm living in town though, is the river in that area ok to fish? Or does that drain nasty up the waters as well?


----------



## bborow2501 (Nov 12, 2007)

this should about sum it up:

http://www.examiner.com/kayaking-in-detroit/red-run-clinton-river-tributary

http://www.epa.gov/waters/tmdldocs/31272_Red Run Decision 2.pdf

http://redrundrain.wordpress.com/

from I have heard, it is only slightly cleaner than the rouge. Not too much fishing down there, head west or north to the metro parks for good general fishing opportunities. The clinton river in the mid sections in Rochester and Auburn Hills and its tributaries provide far better options if you want to fish a river. Warren is too citified and paved over to provide much in the way of fishing opportunities.


----------



## ogie (Dec 31, 2011)

bborow2501 said:


> this should about sum it up:
> 
> http://www.examiner.com/kayaking-in-detroit/red-run-clinton-river-tributary
> 
> ...


I figured it would be, when I saw the drainage I figured it would be too good to be true . Was really hoping to be able to only use my truck when I wanted to put in a canoe or kayak or go two tracking this summer. Oh well... Such is life.


----------



## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

There is still some EXCELLENT fishing nearby. Let me know when you are settled in, I would be happy to show you around.


----------



## The Downstream Drift (Feb 27, 2010)

This is thread comes at a very interesting time considering the conversation I had over the weekend involving the sanitary waste water discharges within the Clinton River watershed.

History has a way of building a distorted image of what is actually happening with our wastewater treatment plants. Many people remember the a time when actual raw sewage was discharged into our rivers. However, this simply does not happen anymore. By design, the water treatment plant in Warren will discharge *sanitary sewer water *during a high water event. Please note that I put *sanitary sewer water* in bold print. This overflow discharge has been screened and treated with chlorine prior to being discharged. It is *NOT *raw sewage.

Now, I know that many of you are going to jump on me about this but the image the media has painted has distorted the truth. The fact is that there has not been a RAW sewage discharge in Warren for a very long time.

Please take the time to find the truth in this. Image is everything and some of the media sources have done everything they can to continue the public fear of RAW sewage being pumped into our waterways. The following links will help to educate us on this issue...

http://www.cityofclawson.com/your_community/docs/RedRunStormwaterFlyer_09.pdf

http://redrundrain.wordpress.com/sewage-water-macomb-county/

http://redrundrain.wordpress.com/page/2/

Remember guys, I am a steward of this watershed. I look for the best in what we have accomplished while being realistic about the challenges that we are still facing.


----------



## The Downstream Drift (Feb 27, 2010)

bborow2501 said:


> this should about sum it up:
> 
> http://www.examiner.com/kayaking-in-detroit/red-run-clinton-river-tributary
> 
> ...


Bborrow, 

Please note the following with the links you provided...

1. This article was written by a man that is notorious for negativity on any improvement within the Clinton River watershed. Many of you should remember the several threads worth of debates I had with him prior to his "banned" status on this site. Needless to say, I tend to take all of his words with a grain of salt.

2. There is not a date on the EPA report that was posted. While reviewing the report I noted several dates prior to the improvements at the George Kuhn Waste Water Treatment Plant and several expectations scheduled for after the treatment plant was completed. Therefore, I have to believe this is an old document and there is much more accurate, up-to-date information available.

3. The third link is a source of articles that are related directly to the Red Run Drain. While searching through the linked site you will find several articles that prove there is no longer RAW sewage discharged into the Red Run from the George Kuhn Treatment Plant. You will also find several articles (such as the ones I linked in my previous post) that will explain the difference between RAW sewage and sanitary sewer discharges.

Again, this is a case of falling prey to all of the irresponsible information that is available online to anyone that does a simple Google search. Please know that I am not blaming you for posting links that may not be accurate. However, this proves the point that even people such as yourself (who are excellent stewards of the watershed) can find misguided information and fall victim to the irresponsible reporting.


----------



## Afterthaut (Sep 7, 2011)

The Downstream Drift said:


> This is thread comes at a very interesting time considering the conversation I had over the weekend involving the sanitary waste water discharges within the Clinton River watershed.
> 
> History has a way of building a distorted image of what is actually happening with our wastewater treatment plants. Many people remember the a time when actual raw sewage was discharged into our rivers. However, this simply does not happen anymore. By design, the water treatment plant in Warren will discharge *sanitary sewer water *during a high water event. Please note that I put *sanitary sewer water* in bold print. This overflow discharge has been screened and treated with chlorine prior to being discharged. It is *NOT *raw sewage.
> 
> ...


This is not true. According to this article dated March 2011, raw sewage and other chemicals were pouring untreated into Bear Creek from somewhere inside the GM Tech Center. Bear Creek empties into the Red Run Drain. The problem has been fixed, but who knows how long this was happening. 

http://theoaklandpress.com/articles/2011/03/08/news/doc4d76345facff9050643801.txt

Not only that, I've been fishing in the Clinton by Yates and could smell something that smelled an awful lot like sewage after a rain event. 

Before you jump on me and imply that I have some motive for posting this, save it. I just saw your post and recalled that article that I saw when doing my own research about the watershed, as well as my observations over the last year or so. I agree that the watershed isn't nearly as bad as it used to be, but I wouldn't be too quick to eat any fish out of there, and I certainly wouldn't go frolicking around in the Red Run Drain.


----------



## The Downstream Drift (Feb 27, 2010)

Afterthaut said:


> This is not true. According to this article dated March 2011, raw sewage and other chemicals were pouring untreated into Bear Creek from somewhere inside the GM Tech Center. Bear Creek empties into the Red Run Drain. The problem has been fixed, but who knows how long this was happening.
> 
> http://theoaklandpress.com/articles/2011/03/08/news/doc4d76345facff9050643801.txt
> 
> ...


Afterthaut, don't take this as "jumping on you" but I have some thoughts on your post.

1. The article that you posted spoke of a cracked sewer pipe that was discharging raw sewage. These things will happen occasionally due to the age of our sewer systems. If you read through my post I stated that the *water treatment plant* in Warren is not discharging RAW sewage any more. This is a fact. Now, the article you posted is correct. An underground sewer pipe did crack and leaked into Bear Creek. This happens from time to time with the massive amounts of our underwater pipes. For example, there was a recent (within a year or so) gas pipe break in the area of the North Branch of the Clinton which leaked gas into the waterway. And, of course, we all remember the oil pipe break on the Kalamazoo River. When infastructure gets old things happen. However, this is not a normal occurance.

2. The smell you mentioned at Yates has been noticed by many anglers and is often mistaken for raw sewage. This odor is most likely due the close proximity to the historic 23 Mile Rd Superfund site. As many of you know, this was one of the worst toxic dumping sites in the nation 25 years ago. However, the EPA has spent considerable time and money to improve the conditions in this area. There are several reports online written by the EPA on this superfund site and the efforts to repair the issues. Within these reports it is noted that they have yet to prove that any of the toxic substances are leaking into the Clinton River. As a result of the EPA efforts this area is much cleaner that it was historically. Now, I wouldn't drill a well for drinking water in this site. But in Holland Ponds we have an annual heron rookery. These birds will not hang out in an area that is coated in pollutants. Also, according to the EPA reports, water was not allowed to be collected into ponds until a certain level of restoration had been completed. All of this aside, if you drive down 23 Mile Rd you will see several pipes sticking out of the ground in the fenced in superfund site. The "exhaust" pipes are most likely the cause of whatever smell we encounter while fishing down at Yates.

Needless to say, the Clinton River watershed still has it's impairments. I am one of the first to admit that. However, I will not simply stand by an stay quiet while the media offers irresponible reporting on the actual condition of our watershed. Too many people have worked too hard to let the media discredit their efforts.


----------



## Lubbs (Jan 7, 2012)

If your in warren you can take 696 east to lake st clair 696 west to novi (Davidson area) . Heading north to Yates cider mill area or even to Stoney creek metro park just to have some fun . I grew up 2 miles north of the tech center and always had to head north east or west . There are spots in the northern part of sterling heights , just look at any thread started by users that have pike I'm the username


----------



## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

> SELWESKI: When will Oakland admit polluting Macomb waters?
> 
> Saturday, March 3, 2012
> 
> ...


http://redrundrain.wordpress.com/page/2/


Anybody that wants to tell me the Red Run is doing just fine, I will believe you when you wet wade it after a summer downpour.:lol:


----------



## The Downstream Drift (Feb 27, 2010)

Perhaps we should schedule a tour of the George Kuhn facility? 

Esox, while I have always respected all of your posts this article is simply another bit of irresponible, fear mongering reporting. The author clearly states that the discharges are sanitary sewer water, not raw sewage. This is going to happen and George Kuhn is within compliance with DEQ and EPA discharge standards.

We all know that wet wading the Red Run isn't the best choice. I can prove that by simply taking a net down and scooping some bugs. All you will find is midge larva and leeches, two very tolerant species.

I guess my point here is that there is a major difference between raw sewage and sanitary sewer water. The media is great at not explaining the difference and continues attempts to plant fear with every article written about a discharge.

Now, you want the issue answer to the issue in the Red Run? While it may not be this simple, stormwater runoff is the biggest impairment facing this area. Non-source pollution. Read the AOC documents, read the RAP documents. Set up a time to visit the watershed council's office. They have a library full of documents written by the DEQ and EPA on the watershed. They also have staff available to help understand the documents. CRWC is an education resource for our watershed and should be used as such so we, as river stewards, have the right information to rally around.


----------



## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

The Downstream Drift said:


> Esox, while I have always respected all of your posts this article is simply another bit of irresponible, fear mongering reporting. The author clearly states that the discharges are sanitary sewer water, not raw sewage. This is going to happen and George Kuhn is within compliance with DEQ and EPA discharge standards.


That article is irresponsible? It came directly from your link.....


----------



## The Downstream Drift (Feb 27, 2010)

You're right. It came from the Red Run site. So did one of the articles that Bborrow posted.

Let me clarify my term "irresponsible". The article posted once again did not clarify the difference between raw sewage and sanitary sewer water. Without this clarification the general public is left to believe that sanitary sewer water has human waste floating in it. You are intelligent enough to realize the difference, Esox, but is the general public? Without proper education I honestly don't think most people understand the difference.

To put my point in perspective, here is a great article written on the difference between raw sewage and stormwater runoff...

http://redrundrain.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/storm-drain-versus-sewer-drain-in-macomb-county/

The best way to understand this difference is to visit the treatment plant. Every year during River Day (the first weekend in June) both the George Kuhn Treatment Plant and the Pontiac Treatment Plant offer public tours of the facilities. Both tours are interesting and very educational as the two treatment plants operate in two different manners. One is a combined system and the other seperates sewer and stormwater.

To be clear, I am not here to debate if we still have issues in the watershed or not. But I will continue to advocate for the public education on sanitary sewer discharges. This is an issue that carries alot of questions with the general public and hopefully I can help prove the historical myths incorrect. Maybe I won't but it is worth my efforts.


----------



## Dead Bird (Oct 2, 2001)

ESOX said:


> There is still some EXCELLENT fishing nearby. Let me know when you are settled in, I would be happy to show you around.


hey....

I live at 13 and Ryan... I never got an invite for "EXCELLENT" fishing....

I have been a Warren resident since the 70's... stay out of the Red Run Drain....

there is some good fishing a little east of us... and west of us... also just a little north....

welcome to Warren... give me a PM and we can chat...

I will say that ESOX probably has some better low down than me...


----------

