# quality deer mangement area's



## Steve in MI (Jun 10, 2000)

I would not be intrested in giving more money. I dont see the improvements that they said would happen. Also I am bent out of shape about theland that they sold off in the north. to pay for new biologsit. Some of the land went to paper companys as well!!??


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## jamie7117 (Aug 15, 2001)

the estimation of deer populations and buck to doe ratio's would be eliminated by the institution of mandatory deer check stations. the dnr is grossly undermanned to undertake such a huge task and the extra fee's would compensate such an undertaking.

bovine diseases are inherent in deer populations much like diseases in humans we/deer may be carrying a disease and show no symptoms or the disease may not fully develop. put a group of people/deer together via hospital/overpopulated area and the disease/diseases will begin to spread and become more virulent in it's effect.

How can you say this QDM thing will work, where is the facts? 
there are plenty of qdm's throughout the south, west, and east on state/private lands that show qdm works.

Georgia, for example, several state wildlife management areas have selective harvest regulations allowing only certain minimum spreads and/or main beam lengths to be taken. But what about on a county-wide or regional basis? Have any states had regulations designed to protect yearling or larger bucks on a regional or statewide basis? The earlier regulations in states like Florida and Texas were designed to do this, but were based on incomplete biological knowledge. In 1992, the Georgia Game and Fish Division initiated an experiment in Dooly County, an area that is noted for producing very large bucks, has large land ownerships, and has good soils. It has landowners and hunters who, because of their experience in Quality Management, were more likely to be receptive to the notion of protecting yearling bucks. Remember, the 1.5-year-old males range over large areas and are extremely vulnerable. Protecting them over an entire county would greatly facilitate the practice of Quality Management. It would encourage landowners and clubs to voluntarily restrict harvest of immature bucks in the intermediate age classes older than 1.5 years.

The experiment followed several steps. First, the appropriate county was selected. Second, the DNR personnel sought the blessings of law enforcement, the judiciary and the politicians. Third, the DNR conducted public meetings to seek the blessing of the hunters and landowners.

Another step in the experiment was to determine an appropriate harvest prescription. In other words, what size antlers would be illegal in order to protect at least the better yearling bucks. This was done through analysis of data from previous years' harvests. The criterion selected was a 15 inch minimum outside antler spread.

Finally, the plan was implemented and evaluated over a 3-year period in terms of the biological results and the acceptance by the people. 

this program has been adopted by many states with a great deal of success and hunter acceptance.

If you won't take 1.5 years old and are out to take trophies, we don't you just go buy some trophy sheds or synthetic trophy antlers?? 
answer that question yourself? why don't you take does instead of the 1.5 year old bucks? if you are so concerned about harvesting a deer, because that, in your words,"that this is deer hunting season its what you are suppose to do, that's why you are out in the woods" you would follow sound science and harvest more does and let 1.5 year olds walk. myself and many others do.

the answer to your question:"What is the difference in taking four 1.5 year old deer or taking four 3.5 year old deer each year. You still take 4 bucks out of the population, its just they would 2 years older???? " has been answered here several times and i see you may be unable to comprehend it, this is getting redundant and it's like talking to a brick wall.
we obviously have different opinions on the subject and believe me i respect your opinions and understand your concerns. old traditions die hard.


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## beer and nuts (Jan 2, 2001)

Jamie,

Yes obviously we have different opions, but just a few comments and then I'm done here.

Its obvious, you want to harvest the biggest set of antlers you possibly can each year and that would be considered a trophy hunter.

Your Georgia scenerio is fine but I still didn't see any facts on what QDM has done there besides not take 1.5 year olds, hence making a better chance at taking a trophy deer. You also state that this area had traditionly produce trophy whitetail anyways. Other factors is this county has a ton of large private land(clubs, large farms, etc..), now way comparable to Michigan.

I have read all posts and nowhere do I see someone explaining to me what is the difference whether you take 1.5 year old or 3.5 year old, BESIDES having bigger racks to harvest each year.

Hey Jaime my question on why don't you buy sheds instead was exactly my point to you when you asked me previously about why not take does and not 1.5 year olds if we were just interested in meat, well if you are just interested in large antlers than buy fake ones. 

I do take does and have taken plenty, so your answer is yes I do take does when necessary, but I also take 1.5 year olds too IF they present a shot to me. I have gone seasons without taking a buck too. But that is the whole reason I hunt, the anticipation, the thought they next deer might be a buck(big or small)

What about the thought of 1.5 year olds are the first deer to die during a hard winter kill(remember in Georgia, no winter). So if I take a 1.5 year old might I be creating a healthier deer herd too!?!? 

My scare is, most QDM talk ALWAYS comes back or starts with, creating bigger racks. Here is a proven theory we should try, how about letting the 10 points or bigger go so they can pass on a better gene and lets try to create 1.5 year olds with 6 and 8 points, nice racks and great meat. By the way this has proven data, that large matured antlered bucks produce a quality offspring, sometimes resulting in 8-10 point 1.5 year olds, they have seen this on deer ranches and large private hunting clubs.

I'm still waiting on data from the DNR on these experimental QDM area in Michigan, has anybody heard anything? 

I'm out


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## jamie7117 (Aug 15, 2001)

qdm facts on dmu 107:

http://members.tripod.com/~mmbqdm/articles/2000DMU107report.htm


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## jamie7117 (Aug 15, 2001)

How does protecting 1 1/2 year old bucks benefit the welfare of our deer population even if we have those devastating winters that might knock them off anyway?
You have all heard of the old dominate buck. Well he is real and he is there if he gets the chance to mature. He can and usually does take charge of the breeding ritual. Younger bucks are often times suppressed which allows them to enter winter in better shape thus helping them to better survive a tough winter. Besides the fawns the rutting 1 1/2 year old bucks are the least capable of surviving a hard winter. It is not unusual for young bucks that are not suppressed to lose 20% or more of their weight during the rut. Another few more pounds lost during a tough winter and they are history. If we lose a few older dominate bucks so be it. They did their job. There are many other benefits that occur when addressing the general welfare of our deer population. May I suggest the four seasons books by Mr. John Ozoga and the Quality Deer Management Association Book "Quality Whitetails."


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## jamie7117 (Aug 15, 2001)

i am a deer hunter, for the past number of seasons i have let more bucks walk than i care to divulge. in the process my self and my hunting party have harvested far more antlerless deer than antlered. yes a first time hunter or someone who has never harvested a deer was allowed to harvest a buck(any buck), the rest were encouraged to harvest antlerless deer and let the little guys live to see another season. 
the first season of hunting the property (we are talking 80 acres not a huge tract of land) my hunting party that consists of 4-6 hunters during gun season, 3 during bow, noticed an immense number of does and began the process of thinning the herd, we took 2 does per hunter 12 does and no bucks, several were seen but none were harvested, we have continued this for 4 years and it is paying off. the does are bigger, birth rates are higher, producing more buck fawns, a lot of twin button bucks, and the buck population is beginning to recover, even though neighbors do not practice qdm. we have harvested 5 bucks in 4 years all respectable 6,7,8 point deer with 14-16 inch spreads as well as 46 does. we have noticed a drop in the number of deer sightings but still see plenty of deer and have intern been able to let many does walk in the process. last year i saw as many bucks as does and that was a first in my hunting experience. we have seen first hand that qdm works and look forward to this season and what lies ahead.


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

Jamie, I believe you have set a new Michigan Sportsman record for the largest number of good points made in a single thread.

I, like practically every QDM believer that I know, am not focused on producing large antlers. I haven't taken a buck in years, and in fact, I and my hunting partners have harvested two dozen does from my farm in the last four seasons. And anyone that thinks that killing a 1.5 year old buck is more of a challenge than taking a mature doe, well, they wouldn't pass the hunter competency test that I apply to my guests.

We continue to practice QDM in spite of the fact that we have generally not been successful in having a meaningful impact on local herd density (it's still too high) or the age structure of the buck component of the herd (there is none, and this fact, combined with the high overall density DOES HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON THE HEALTH OF THE HERD, despite the general appearance of the young deer as "healthy"). The problem we have is with incorrigible drunken slobs on neighboring parcels that massacre the 1.5 year old bucks annually.

Educating hunters and landowners takes time, but it is slowly happening. And widespread QDM will eventually become reality, simply because it's the right thing to do for the deer, for landowners, and for hunters.


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## Hamilton Reef (Jan 20, 2000)

Okay gentlemen, I'll admit I too did not shoot a buck last year on my QDM property. I did pass up an 8-pt after I noticed the brow points which would have qualified our own voluntary 4-pt on a side rule we imposed upon ourselves. I did shoot one doe, but I only had one doe tag to fill. This year we are having a ball watching several qualifying bucks in our third year of QDM. Video C/R hunting the last three years is as much fun and 

On September 15, I was the guest speaker at a 4500-acre scout reservation that is now going to QDM voluntary 4-pt on a side rule. This will be their second full season as voluntary QDM. Exception to the rule are all the young hunters that need to get a buck in their first hunting experiences.

I did express the point that QDM is a different for different people and I did mention that even a spike or a 1-1/2 year 4 or 6-pt could be a trophy buck to some people. I mentioned that not all properties are equal for habitat to work with and I stressed that QDM is 'not' trophy rack hunting. There were several other discussions we covered and I came out of the meeting with exactly 20 names and addresses to send additional QDM information to.


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## Rico (Mar 15, 2001)

For those that are HUNTERS, not YAHOOS wanting the thrill of a kill, How many hours a season do you spend in the field actively hunting: Answer- AS MUCH AS YOU CAN. 

For those HUNTERS that are not fortunate to belong to a HUNT CLUB, own the land they hunt or get permission to hunt on someone elses land: YOU HUNT AS MUCH AS YOU CAN.

What do the HUNTERS not fortunate get with the land that is LEFT available to hunt:

A BUNCH OF YAHOOS and DOES and SMALL BUCKS.

I say bring on the QDM we need it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RIC

This is one DNR policy I won't choke on!
HELL MAKE IT A ONE BUCK LIMIT ON TOP OF THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Bob S (Mar 8, 2000)

Rico, I agree about the one buck limit. I believe that a lot of hunters will shoot the first legal buck that they see because they still have the second license to continue hunting for a larger buck. With a one buck limit a lot of young bucks would be passed on early in the season. Some of those early October spike and four point kills would become doe kills instead. 

I heard a radio report on Monday that the DNR expects archers to take 75,000 bucks and 51,000 does this year. That is a big reason as to what is wrong with the Michigan deer herd. Those numbers should be reversed. With all of the hours bow hunters spend in the woods, they should be killing many more does.


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

Bob, it's actually worse than that. The DNR's 2001 archery harvest estimate is for 75,000 bucks and 51,000 "antlerless" deer, not 51,000 does. In reporting actual and estimated harvests, the DNR does not differentiate between male and female antlerless deer, and button bucks are included in the antlerless numbers.

I generally assume that 25% of the antlerless harvest consists of male fawns, or "button bucks". Adjusting the DNR's estimate, we have a harvest of 87,750 male deer and 38,250 female deer. 

I'm not aware of any state in the nation with such an imbalanced archery harvest. Michigan gun hunters actually do a better job of taking does, but we've got a long way to go there also.


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## leon (Jan 23, 2000)

I would only add to this spirited debate that Farmlegend has the best sense of humor and I sure like his outlook on hunting and this thoughts on managing our deer herd. Keep poppin those big does and it's a matter of time before you start seeing a few big bucks. Some of those 1.5 year olds are bound to get by those noncooperating neighbors of yours.


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## Bob S (Mar 8, 2000)

Farmlegend, I stand corrected about the antlerless kill, not being doe kill. I should have worded that better.

Leon, I hope some of the 1.5 year old bucks get past my neighbors also.


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