# CCW Weapon, what to get?



## someone11 (Mar 15, 2009)

I will be turning 21 in exactly one month from today. I plan on getting my CCW permit this summer along with a handgun. I have some questions though as to what to get. I want a gun that is fairly easy to carry around, though I may not be carrying it much and may be in the truck more than on me. I dont want a revolver. Ive been looking at .380, 9mm, and .40. Im really leaning towards 9mm but dont know what brand/model to go with. Ive been told Glock is good but read on here that its not good for beginners. Im liking S&W. Also I would like to spend around $400 on it, but can go up to around 5. I dont have a lot of experience shooting handguns but would love to learn. Ive only shot a .22 handgun and one other one (dont remember what it was, was a varmit handgun with a scope).

My other question is where do I go to find where and when classes are held? And is there any place around Algonac/ St. Clair MI where I can go to test shoot some handguns to get a feel for what I might want to get? I work in Algonac during the summer.

Thanks in advance


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## SWMich (Sep 1, 2010)

Shoot all three, then shoot them again. Talk to a bunch of people who shoot handguns regularly. Go to a local range, shoot, talk to the guys. Just my .02 but for me personnaly I would stay away from the .380...popular now for carry guns but I wouldnt want to be holding one in a gun fight. 9mm/.40 is a good bet. Glocks are good, simple guns dont believe the hype.


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

9mm..........cheap ammo. You can practice shooting bad guys a lot


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## Hammer62 (Oct 20, 2010)

You might want to check with the areas shooting ranges, alot of times they hold classes, but what you are looking for is a "CPL" liscense not a CCW. I have many handguns and to *ME* the 9mm is too bulky to carry. I have a snub nosed revolver or a 9 x 18 Makarov (similar to a .380) they make me feel safe, but to each their own. Try many out, you'll know what is right for you.


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## uncletj (Aug 30, 2005)




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## someone11 (Mar 15, 2009)

CPL...CCW I know. Anybody have any opinion on the Sigma series by S&W?


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## Whitetail1 (Oct 17, 2008)

Whatever you choose, be sure to shoot it often and get to know it better than your girlfriend. God forbid if you ever have to use it and you have to think about how it operates. Make it simple and fun to shoot.


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## tallbear (May 18, 2005)

To find a class do a search. Type in your city and "CPL class". Yes....it's CPL; "Concealed Pistol License".

To find the "right" handgun will take holding and shooting a number of handguns. Number one rule of proper handgun selection is "fit". If the gun doesn't fit your hand correctly, you'll never shoot it good. If you can't shoot it good, you'll never like it OR carry it. Once you have "your" handgun....PRACTICE and practice often.

Check out migunowners.org for a LOT of good info on guns and shooting.


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## Flash (Jan 17, 2006)

.380 - some consider it too small a caliber for self defense. It is better than nothing. Mag-safe Blue tip rounds are regarded as effective.

9mm - lots of real streat data. Used by many armies around the world. Due to this, it is considered a "military" round and some countries will not let you in with it. Only caliber to reach velocity in a 3" barrel. CorBon 115gr +p closely approximates .357 125gr ballistics. Kahr K9 is an excellant piece in this caliber. Concealable, reliable, dependable - but outside your budget.

.40 - too big or too heavy for daily concealed carry. Many of us who have carried for decades realized long ago that having something is better than having nothing but weight ultimately plays a role in your decisions.

For carry alot and shoot little, a 5 shot Titanium snub (.38) is pretty sweet. So is a Kahr K9.

Remember to calculate the weight of ammunition into your factoring. With some high capacity magazines and carrying a spare, the ammo can weigh as much or more than the gun.

Good luck with your research.


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## UPhiker (Jul 13, 2008)

someone11 said:


> CPL...CCW I know. Anybody have any opinion on the Sigma series by S&W?


They have terrible triggers. Buy a better quality used gun instead of a cheap new gun. I don't know why you don't consider revolvers but the Smith 642 is a great gun.


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## UPhiker (Jul 13, 2008)

Flash said:


> .380 - some consider it too small a caliber for self defense. It is better than nothing. Mag-safe Blue tip rounds are regarded as effective.
> 
> 9mm - lots of real streat data. Used by many armies around the world. Due to this, it is considered a "military" round and some countries will not let you in with it. Only caliber to reach velocity in a 3" barrel. CorBon 115gr +p closely approximates .357 125gr ballistics. Kahr K9 is an excellant piece in this caliber. Concealable, reliable, dependable - but outside your budget.
> 
> ...


Who cares if a 9mm is a "military" caliber. You can't take your pistol into any other country anyways.
As far as .40's go- they are the same size as a 9mm-they just kick more and hold less.


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## Get Out (Dec 29, 2010)

Go with a springfield XD in compact or sub-compact. And for pete's sake go with the .40 S&W. It is in your price range. The pistol isn't any bigger than a 9mm but it has more power and punches a bigger hole. Whatever you get learn to shoot it and learn to love it.


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## Hoppe's no.10 (Sep 16, 2007)

someone11 said:


> I want a gun that is fairly easy to carry around, though I may not be carrying it much and may be in the truck more than on me.


Personally I'm loathe to leave a handgun in a vehicle and avoid doing so at all costs and regardless of inconveniences.



UPhiker said:


> They ( *S&W Sigma*) have terrible triggers. Buy a better quality used gun instead of a cheap new gun. I don't know why you don't consider revolvers but the Smith 642 is a great gun.


Good advice.



Get Out said:


> Go with a springfield XD in compact or sub-compact. And for pete's sake go with the .40 S&W. It is in your price range. The pistol isn't any bigger than a 9mm but it has more power and punches a bigger hole. Whatever you get learn to shoot it and learn to love it.


Compacts and sub-compacts are poor handgun choices for new handgun shooters and most especially in the larger calibers. Seen a lot of beginners try it (seduced by the :coolgleam of the handgun as opposed to practical/realistic expectations) and many if not most find themselves starting out on a less than impressive learning curve - lot more recoil, lot less rewarding bullet placement, lot of discouragement.

A handgun is a difficult firearm to shoot well - takes lots and lots of practice. Don't start out by hampering yourself with a weapon that- because of its inherent design - is even more difficult to shoot well.

If you can find a club in your area that holds I.D.P.A. (International Defensive Pistol Assoc.) or U.S.P.S.A. (United States Practical Shooting Assoc.) matches or clubs that put on "fun" tactical type shoots, by all means go. You will more about pistol shooting in just one session than you will in years of banging away here and there at paper targets, tin cans etc.

Hope this helps, good luck.

Hoppe's no.10


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## someone11 (Mar 15, 2009)

Thanks for the advice guys. I probably wont go with a .40 just cause its a little bigger and heavier. I have a few friends with pistols and will probably go out with them shooting one day to get a feel for the different types of guns.


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## bone (Sep 17, 2010)

love my s&w 642 airweight 38 special. designed specifically for carry. very acurate and will go bang 5 times no matter what


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## WhitetailJunkie (Nov 3, 2008)

Some gun ranges even rent handguns...so you can try out a lot of different brands/types to see what you like best.


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## Mags (Apr 10, 2002)

UPhiker said:


> They have terrible triggers. Buy a better quality used gun instead of a cheap new gun. I don't know why you don't consider revolvers but the Smith 642 is a great gun.


If you're looking at the Sigmas, step up a notch and try the M & P models in both regular frame and compact. Nice shooters for the $ spent, IMO, and basically the same price range as Glocks.


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## Flyhack (Jul 12, 2009)

Don't let anyone try to talk you into or out of anything here. There are lots of opinions, but they are from people that are not you and won't make the same decision for the same reason. As some have mentioned, go to a range that rents guns and try them and then try them again. The worst gun is one that you don't shoot, don't practice with, and don't feel comfortable with. It won't serve you when you need it. Understand the responsibility of having a CPL. Remember if you carry, you might just have to use it one day. 

Try
decide 
buy
practice
practice
practice

I am really surprised no one recommended the NRA website to find a CPL course. http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/index.asp A good place to find NRA certified trainers and courses.


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## amon (May 8, 2002)

UPhiker said:


> I don't know why you don't consider revolvers but the Smith 642 is a great gun.


Totally agree. Revolvers should never be discounted.

I think the ultimate carry piece is an ultra-light weight revolver, preferably in .357. I have a .340PD. I will say that the recoil is absolutely brutal, but it's not for plinking. You're not going to feel the recoil in a defensive situation. 

It doesn't even need to be an airweight. Any compact .357 is superior if you know how to aim. 

Also, I've never had a carry or service revolver jam or otherwise fail EVER, but I can't say the same about an auto. I do carry autos, but ultimately I have the most trust in revolvers.


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## PITBULL (May 23, 2003)

Like what was stated in several post. Go out and shoot and handle as many as you can, also look for reliability as far as no ftf, stovepipes ect. If the unfortunate day comes that you need to use your weapon it needs to work flawlessly. 9mm will allow you to shoot more at the range due to lower ammo cost and availibility. That being said I carry a Ruger SR9 for every day carry and have been more than happy with it. But thats just my personal choice.


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## Flash (Jan 17, 2006)

UPhiker said:


> Who cares if a 9mm is a "military" caliber. You can't take your pistol into any other country anyways.
> As far as .40's go- they are the same size as a 9mm-they just kick more and hold less.


I believe you may be overlooking a couple of scenarios. 1. Firearms Trainers - namely those with international credentials and students who might travel for that training. 2. .40 caliber ammunition is heavier than 9mm ammunition. Daily carry of a loaded .40 with spare magazine(s) will be heavier than a similarly sized/equiped 9mm.

In my view - if one is committed to carrying the weight of a .40 then a .45 would be the better choice. However since weight will play a deciding factor for a large part of the general concealed carrying public, it may want to be considered early on in the research and evaluation stages.


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## UPhiker (Jul 13, 2008)

Flash said:


> I believe you may be overlooking a couple of scenarios. 1. Firearms Trainers - namely those with international credentials and students who might travel for that training. 2. .40 caliber ammunition is heavier than 9mm ammunition. Daily carry of a loaded .40 with spare magazine(s) will be heavier than a similarly sized/equiped 9mm.


What does being a firearms trainer have to do with the OP?
Secondly, you're talking an ounce or two of weight. Yes, .20 ammo weighs more , but there are fewer of them. Worry more about the weight around your middle.


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## Bucket-Back (Feb 8, 2004)

UPhiker said:


> What does being a firearms trainer have to do with the OP?
> Secondly, you're talking an ounce or two of weight. Yes, .20 ammo weighs more , but there are fewer of them. Worry more about the weight around your middle.


I couldn't decide between a revolver or a semi-auto . I ended up with a Glock 19 ,and a S&W 642 airweight 38 , but usually carry a Charter Lite 38 .I tried Taurus thrice ,EAA ,KelTec ,and a CZ also ,all NIB. The only dislike of the CZ was the weight.The others just plain sucked every which way


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## Flash (Jan 17, 2006)

UPhiker said:


> What does being a firearms trainer have to do with the OP?
> Secondly, you're talking an ounce or two of weight. Yes, .20 ammo weighs more , but there are fewer of them. Worry more about the weight around your middle.


You seem to be taking a narrower view than what I was taught in my training. Contingencies mean to consider and evaluate several potential scenerios and have an evaluation of them. The OP is soon to be a student. I have no way of knowing from the original post what his ultimate intentions are nor what level of training he will seek. I hope he seeks a very high level of training from professionals.

Not sure why you are so commmitted to this dialogue. A simple accurate statement and you blow right by the other parts of my post regarding the virtues of the 9mm caliber. My training has taught me to be a bit more open in my vision.


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## zfishman (Dec 21, 2008)

The key for me when I was looking at guns was if it was a carry gun then get something that is easy to carry. I decided on a revolver. I also went and shot other guns and they were great, but the main factor was ease of carrying. Some people dress around their gun, but I'm a shorts/jeans/ T-shirt person. Good luck with your decision.


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## Hoppe's no.10 (Sep 16, 2007)

zfishman said:


> The key for me when I was looking at guns was if it was a carry gun then get something that is *easy to carry*. I decided on a revolver. I also went and shot other guns and they were great, *but the main factor was ease of carrying**. Some people dress around their gun, but I'm a shorts/jeans/ T-shirt person. Good luck with your decision.


With all due respect the "main factor" in choosing a carry gun should be finding a gun that you can* learn* to shoot well and that only comes with shooting often. Your "...shorts, jeans and T-shirt..." will not save your life but your capabilities with your carry gun just might. Better to be alive than to be :coolgleam " but dead. 

Hoppe's no.10

* my highlights


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## someone11 (Mar 15, 2009)

Thanks for the input guys/gals.


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## Chevyguy28 (Dec 29, 2010)

I fought the same fight you are having now with choosing a weapon about 3 months ago. I pain stakingly researched several differnt weapons, Glock, S&W, Ruger, Springfield is where I stayed. IMO I believe these and maybe a few others I'm leaving out to be of great quality, relability, and decently priced. After reading on forums, watching youtube videos, reading magazines, researching everything I could and comparing them all I reached no conclusion. Until I went to a gun shop and held them all. Found out which one felt best in my hand and pointed naturally. Ultimately I ended up with a Smith and Wesson M&P 9c. I like the way it shoots and the cheapness of ammo. A 9mm despite what others may say has plenty of knock down power as does any round as long as you put it in the RIGHT PLACE. Also I wouldn't go out and buy a full sized weapon if you plan on carrying. Many reputable makers will offer an extra piece that attaches to a full sized magazine to replicate the feel of a full size. You just won't have the same sight plane though. All in all, pick one that feels right, points naturally, you can shoot well and are willing to bet your life on.


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## Bucket-Back (Feb 8, 2004)

Hoppe's no.10 said:


> With all due respect the "main factor" in choosing a carry gun should be finding a gun that you can* learn* to shoot well and that only comes with shooting often. Your "...shorts, jeans and T-shirt..." will not save your life but your capabilities with your carry gun just might. Better to be alive than to be :coolgleam " but dead.
> 
> Hoppe's no.10
> 
> * my highlights


But...,if your weapon you can learn to shoot good , but is too big to carry with the shorts and T-shirt ,it Will be left home and won't be able to save you either sitting in the sock drawer . Its happens . Go to a shop that has guns and holsters and try them on ,for fit.Then go home without buying . Then go back another day and try them again. You might save a couple K doing so.


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## Gun Nut (Jun 3, 2010)

I carry a few different guns. Itjust depends on what I am doing and what I will be wearing. Mostly I carry a Kimber Ultra CDP II in 45 ACP. Or a Smith & Wesson Airweight .38 spl +P rated. I know you said 9mm but I like how light and slim the 1911 is. The power of the 45 is also nice to have.


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## Hoppe's no.10 (Sep 16, 2007)

Bucket-Back said:


> But...,if your weapon you can learn to shoot good , but is too big to carry with the shorts and T-shirt ,it Will be left home and won't be able to save you either sitting in the sock drawer . Its happens . Go to a shop that has guns and holsters and try them on ,for fit.Then go home without buying . Then go back another day and try them again. You might save a couple K doing so.


For what it's worth I carry a full size handgun (Browning Hi-Power) the year round' - even when wearing light summer clothing - the secret to comfortable concealed carry is not the gun but the holster. Many mornings I go to a local coffee shop that is often frequented by city, county and state LEOs - some of whom I know, most of whom I don't - and I've never gotten so much as a sideways glance from any of them when I'm carrying.

Hoppe's no.10


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## karl (Oct 21, 2009)

This is a choice you are going to have to make yourself based on your personal attributes, experience, lifestyle and many other factors. For example I EDC a full sized 1911 in .45 acp. I also have a S&W 642 in my pocket like some carry a pocket knife. That fits my life. You have to, as others have said, go to a range and shoot, feel, fondle many different handguns. Keep in mind that there are handguns that have interchangable parts to change the grip size. Might be another thing to look at. What you for sure don't want to do is go with your buddies to a range and buy a gun because your buddy thinks it's the best thing since smokeless powder. Your buddy is not you.
Holsters are another consideration. Once you decide on a handgun, you have to find something to carry it in. Don't go cheap. You'll end up with a box full of holsters that you don't use and will have spent far more money than if you just ante up and get a quality holster that, again, fits your purpose. Alot of people talk about comfort. I agree to a point, but the most comfortable of course would be to not carry. Just remember, your going to have a "getting used to it" curve. No getting around it. At first your going to be self-concious, always checking to make sure everything is in the right place. You'll get over it. Clint Smith said "Holsters should be comforting, not comfortable". Might be some truth to that.


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## Musty Mariner (Aug 25, 2009)

lots to pick from out there. it took me about 6 months to open up my pocket book. i've been around gun for a while and it still took some time. when it comes to carring conceaied you want to be very comfortable with the gun. do your home work it will pay off.


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## Ricky Bobby (Feb 16, 2011)

When i first got my CPL i carried my S&W 40 and was never really comfortable carrying it. Was never a revolver fan till i shot the 38 bodyguard, great gun and felt good to carry, slides right in the pockets, plus packs some good power, but its all about whats right for you get out there and shoot some guns, most gun shots will let you rent guns to try out at there range. Good luck.


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## Hoppe's no.10 (Sep 16, 2007)

karl said:


> This is a choice you are going to have to make yourself based on your personal attributes, experience, lifestyle and many other factors. For example I EDC a full sized 1911 in .45 acp. I also have a S&W 642 in my pocket like some carry a pocket knife. That fits my life. You have to, as others have said, go to a range and shoot, feel, fondle many different handguns. Keep in mind that there are handguns that have interchangable parts to change the grip size. Might be another thing to look at. What you for sure don't want to do is go with your buddies to a range and buy a gun because your buddy thinks it's the best thing since smokeless powder. Your buddy is not you.
> Holsters are another consideration. Once you decide on a handgun, you have to find something to carry it in. Don't go cheap. You'll end up with a box full of holsters that you don't use and will have spent far more money than if you just ante up and get a quality holster that, again, fits your purpose. Alot of people talk about comfort. I agree to a point, but the most comfortable of course would be to not carry. Just remember, your going to have a "getting used to it" curve. No getting around it. At first your going to be self-concious, always checking to make sure everything is in the right place. You'll get over it. Clint Smith said "Holsters should be comforting, not comfortable". Might be some truth to that.



 Great advice, especially the comments on a holster. This is my IWB holster made specifically for a 9mm Browning Hi-Power (as opposed to a 40 S & W Hi-Power which has a slightly wider slide):








.

I opted for the optional thumb break:








.

This holster is about 4 years old and is still in great shape even though I use it most days - including UP bird hunting trips that finds me climbing over cedar blowdowns, pushing through alder thickets etc. . It makes carrying a full size pistol a very "comforting" proposition. Although it was fairly expensive at around $100.00 (current price - $125.00) IMO it's worth every penny:








.

Hope this helps.

Hoppe's no.10


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## Birddogm33 (Nov 9, 2007)

Love my Springfield sub-compact in 9mm.....Keyword in all of these is practice practice practice. JMO


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## Supa Roosta (Jul 1, 2003)

Hoppe's no.10 said:


> For what it's worth I carry a full size handgun (Browning Hi-Power) the year round' - even when wearing light summer clothing - the secret to comfortable concealed carry is not the gun but the holster. Many mornings I go to a local coffee shop that is often frequented by city, county and state LEOs - some of whom I know, most of whom I don't - and I've never gotten so much as a sideways glance from any of them when I'm carrying.
> 
> Hoppe's no.10


*BINGO*!!!

Don't let the size of a gun dictate the purchase.
Find what fits your hand "naturally".
Ask around for help in basic gun safety/shooting, then,,
Shoot the hell out of it.
During this time find a holster that fits (In fits, I mean, what will allow for concealed carry that doesn't print and allows for best presentation). Any Gun Shop worth it's weight will allow you to try on any holster, and guide you in your selection. 
After you've become thoroughly acquainted with the gun, then look for a defensive training course.
Then, take the course for CPL.
The reason I've put them in this order is , because you'll be well above the curve when it comes time to actually put into action the responsibility that accompanies the privilege to carry concealed.


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## Quack Wacker (Dec 20, 2006)

This is a pretty sweet gun. Lazer sight, slim and compact. Going to be my next purchase.


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## Topshelf (May 24, 2005)

Im guessing your friends are NOT shooters? Most of mine are, and what I did with the ones getting their CPL's was to set up a shoot day. I brought my two pistols with ammo along with inviting my friends who are shooters with their various pistols. 

That way the new guy can shoot some different models and makes and get a feel for what he/she likes and doesnt like. Cost is low, basically just ammo, no pressure from sales guys, low pressure setting. 

Personally I'm willing to do the same for any member that wants to buy a new gun. I'm sure there are others here who feel the same. I have a full size 1911 in 45 and a Sig P225 in 9mm available.


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## karl (Oct 21, 2009)

Topshelf said:


> Im guessing your friends are NOT shooters? Most of mine are, and what I did with the ones getting their CPL's was to set up a shoot day. I brought my two pistols with ammo along with inviting my friends who are shooters with their various pistols.
> 
> That way the new guy can shoot some different models and makes and get a feel for what he/she likes and doesnt like. Cost is low, basically just ammo, no pressure from sales guys, low pressure setting.
> 
> Personally I'm willing to do the same for any member that wants to buy a new gun. I'm sure there are others here who feel the same. I have a full size 1911 in 45 and a Sig P225 in 9mm available.


 That's a good idea, offering to let a new person shoot what you have. I'll kick in. I live in Gaylord and have access to an outside range. I have a 1911 in .45 acp, a compact poly .45acp, a 4" wheelgun in .44mag and an airwieght snubby in .38 +P. Drop me a pm with some notice if your in the area and I'd go shootin' with ya if yor gonna be in the Gaylord area. It is BYOA.


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## brock_gingery86 (Mar 15, 2011)

I just remembered something else we went over in those Law Enforcement College classes. Something that some states have written and passed into law, but they don't get made public often. 

California's Government Code, Sections 821, 845, and 846 which state, in part: "Neither a public entity or a public employee [may be sued] for failure to provide adequate police protection or service, failure to prevent the commission of crimes and failure to apprehend criminals.'' 

The basic principle here as my course instructor explained, looking at my notes, is that "Police are duty bound for the safety of either society as an entity, or an individual in a case where the state has placed restrictions upon them to where they would be unable to maintain a means for their own self defense. Examples: An individual under arrest or in jail awaiting trial, or in the case of being under the control of a Mental hospital."


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

In the Gun Control (reform) act of 1972, (KKK legislation), the United States Supreme Court issued a ruling, in regards to the legislation, Stating that a pistol, in that by basic design is 100% concealable, cannot be deemed a defensive weapon. Their definition still stands, but is largely overlooked and un-enforced.


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## karl (Oct 21, 2009)

dogwhistle said:


> the point that all sorts of advice is being given without any experience to back it up. it's likke the guys that are first to give advice about training dogs without ever having trained even one. or a priest giving marital advice.


Just curious, How is it exactly you know my background or the background of anybody here? Are you one of my hundreds of former patrolmen? Are you one of my former range students? Maybe your one of the people I've had to use my weapon to stop. I'm guessing none of the above, I'm guessing, no I'm not guessing, I'm basing this on your statements and attitude, that you just don't want any of those pesky civilians in your little club. Read some real stats, truely educate yourself and your mind may change, but I doubt it. I am so reminded of the guy that sits in the bar talking about all his SF combat missions, when in reality he was the unit clerk.


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## karl (Oct 21, 2009)

Wax said:


> Lol...
> 
> I think your advice is solid and maybe even sways me another notch towards getting a pocket holster (I've thought about it lately, saw a few last weekend I liked). I do not mean to press my choice on this kid, just offer another setup that exists.


I didn't think you were pressing your choice Wax, just engaging in some information and opinion sharing. If you look at pocket holsters, please remember that you want the holster to stay in your pocket when you draw your weapon. That means the outside of the holster has to be rough or "sticky".


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## someone11 (Mar 15, 2009)

Ugh...another topic thats gonna get locked up. If anyone has any more advice on what GUN to get send me a PM. Im done reading this.


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

glockman55 said:


> Hoppe's no.10 said:
> 
> 
> > I know the type..
> ...


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## Hoppe's no.10 (Sep 16, 2007)

dogwhistle said:


> glockman55 said:
> 
> 
> > not entirely true. it's just that most of the advisors have no experience using a firearm against another person. it's as if a person who had never driven was giving advice on which car to drive.
> ...


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## brock_gingery86 (Mar 15, 2011)

GIDEON said:


> In the Gun Control (reform) act of 1972, (KKK legislation), the United States Supreme Court issued a ruling, in regards to the legislation, Stating that a pistol, in that by basic design is 100% concealable, cannot be deemed a defensive weapon. Their definition still stands, but is largely overlooked and un-enforced.


 
Gideon, The Gun control Enforcement Act of 1972 was an add-on to the Gun Control act of 1968. The basic result of which expanded federal funding for the Dept. of the Treasury's Alcohol and Tobacco Tax Division. The word "Tax" was then replaced with "Firearms" and then became the B.A.T.F.

If you have a Court Case name or link, please post it, as I would love to read it. Especially in light of the fact that Pistols, or Handguns in their current form(Not having a shoulder stock) have always been "DEFENSIVE WEAPONS" by nature. Your comment seems to be very inaccurate, or at least the information presented. Small Derringers and pocket revolvers have always been considered strictly defensive weapons, and yes, they are 100% concealable. They are made for defensive use only, because of a lack of range and power. If anything you are misconstruing the meaning of the ruling, as it would apply to certain firearms that cannot be detected with metal detectors, or that don't show up on immaging detectors.


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## brock_gingery86 (Mar 15, 2011)

someone11 said:


> Ugh...another topic thats gonna get locked up. If anyone has any more advice on what GUN to get send me a PM. Im done reading this.


 
Basically, For Ease of Use, a revolver is your best option. It's chamberings can also be a bit more powerful.

Semi-autos can excel in capacity depending on size, but their main advantage is staying relatively thin and flat if you want to carry it in a pocket holster. Hope that sums it up as short as it can be made.


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## 45/70fan (May 29, 2005)

Hoppe's no.10 said:


> I was using the phrase, metaphorically. Hoppe's no.10


You seem to do that a lot in discounting what others offer as their opinion.


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## Wax (Dec 1, 2010)

someone11 said:


> Ugh...another topic thats gonna get locked up. If anyone has any more advice on what GUN to get send me a PM. Im done reading this.


 
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

it's like opening pandora's box!

u know what's good, go find yourself a good deal on a good gun and you won't regret it


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## gonorth (Aug 6, 2009)

I got sick of relieability issues. So I went with clock 19. Not the most concealable but it shoots every time and imo 9mm is plenty for civilian use. I also have a small keltec 380 for summer situations when you are dressed light. Can't go wrong with a titaniun smith and wesson revolver either. There is also compact (baby clocks) in different calibers.


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## Bucket-Back (Feb 8, 2004)

gonorth said:


> I got sick of relieability issues. So I went with clock 19. Not the most concealable but it shoots every time and imo 9mm is plenty for civilian use. I also have a small keltec 380 for summer situations when you are dressed light. Can't go wrong with a titaniun smith and wesson revolver either. There is also compact (baby clocks) in different calibers.


Just remember to keep the firing pin & channel clean & DRY, or you might get light strikes . Steves Pages has the G-Lock armorers manual available for a free download

http://stevespages.com/page7b.htm


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## Paul C (Nov 27, 2001)

Ruger has a nice line of 9mm SR9, SR9C and of course the new SR40 (40S&W). Made in America, affordable and all have good reviews. I just bought the SR40 and have put 150 rounds through it in the past few weeks and must say that it is a nice shooting gun. The SR40 is only slightly wider than the SR9 and if weight is a concern, don't fill the clip with all 15 rounds!


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## Bucket-Back (Feb 8, 2004)

Paul C said:


> Ruger has a nice line of 9mm SR9, SR9C and of course the new SR40 (40S&W). Made in America, affordable and all have good reviews. I just bought the SR40 and have put 150 rounds through it in the past few weeks and must say that it is a nice shooting gun. The SR40 is only slightly wider than the SR9 and if weight is a concern, don't fill the clip with all 15 rounds!


I'm new here , so forgive me for asking . But if you aren't going to fill the MAGAZINE to capacity because of weight issues . Why not buy a lighter pistol , and for that matter , why not make it a single stack ? Which would make it lighter and thinner.


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## glockman55 (Mar 9, 2006)

Bucket-Back said:


> I'm new here , so forgive me for asking . But if you aren't going to fill the MAGAZINE to capacity because of weight issues . Why not buy a lighter pistol , and for that matter , why not make it a single stack ? Which would make it lighter and thinner.


 
Exactly


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## Paul C (Nov 27, 2001)

The weight cannot be that much of an issue as they sell the same gun with 10 rd clips and the people that are forced to buy them (states like California) can shoot them fine. that is 1/3rd less capacity.


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## glockman55 (Mar 9, 2006)

Paul C said:


> The weight cannot be that much of an issue as they sell the same gun with 10 rd clips and the people that are forced to buy them (states like California) can shoot them fine. that is 1/3rd less capacity.


 
The weight can't be much of an issue..and I don't like to be one of those people but...they're MAGIZINES!!! not clips.


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## Paul C (Nov 27, 2001)

glockman55 said:


> The weight can't be much of an issue..and I don't like to be one of those people but...they're MAGIZINES!!! not clips.


ok Magazines


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## KeithD (Mar 8, 2010)

amon said:


> Totally agree. Revolvers should never be discounted.
> 
> I think the ultimate carry piece is an ultra-light weight revolver, preferably in .357. I have a .340PD. I will say that the recoil is absolutely brutal, but it's not for plinking. You're not going to feel the recoil in a defensive situation.


While true you may not feel the recoil, there still WILL be recoil to manage. and that "absolutely brutal" recoil means you are slower on target.




Chevyguy28 said:


> Also I wouldn't go out and buy a full sized weapon if you plan on carrying. Many reputable makers will offer an extra piece that attaches to a full sized magazine to replicate the feel of a full size. You just won't have the same sight plane though. All in all, pick one that feels right, points naturally, you can shoot well and are willing to bet your life on.


The barrel is the easy part to conceal, its the grip for most people that is the hardest part. So your going to buy a compact pistol, extend the grip back out to the length of a full size? so all you really are doing is short changing yourself on barrel length without really making the pistol any easier to conceal.



45/70fan said:


> Get the largest caliber in the smallest gun that fits your hands and you can point shoot accurately. How long do you have to make the right decision? The rest of your life.


So I want a .500 S&W in a 3 inch barrel? Apparently no one was taught recoil management in there defensive training.





brock_gingery86 said:


> It depends on what you want to get. If you are looking for a Defensive pistol to shoot an intruder and allow yourself time to get away, a 9mm or 380 will do. However if you are looking for a "Stopper" one that will put someone down with center mass hits, Then a .40 or 45 is what you want. If you are new to shooting, the 40 might be the better choice. If it is a revolver, a 357 will do. You can shoot 38s for practice and work up to 357 loads, but remember, A 357 will be more of a stopper, while the 38 has the power of a 9mm on the high end, 380's at the lowest.
> 
> Consequently, The only 9mm loading that truly qualifies it as a stopper is the +P+ loading. Two Plus marks. These loads are similar to a 357Mag, or 357 sig, which was designed to mimic the 357mag load with 125gr bullets.


I would be very curios to know where you have gotten you ballistic information from. And what constitutes a round as being a "true stopper". Cause we've seen guys die from one round of .22 and i have video of a guy that was shot my an AK-74 center brain box and sitting in a hospital bead talking. 

I find it also pretty weird that almost all Tier 1 firearms trainers in the world, ya know the been there done that and killed alot of people ex Delta seal recon super secret squirrel sniper guys.... most carry 9 mike... hmmm might be a clue.


A lot of internet and gun rag myths being thrown around here.

To the OP:

Watch who your getting your info from. Ask people where they have been and what they've done. Do they have first hand knowledge of hundreds of different weapons systems to be able to give a truly educated opinion. Just because some one has carried for 20 years or is a cop, doesnt mean they know a great deal of knowledge.


You are looking for information on a topic that is far to serious to be getting false information. be critical about who your getting it from.


KeithD


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