# Ammo



## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

Okay, the cost of reloading has gotten to the point it no longer pays. I was purchaing new ammo built through Fiocchi hulls from a place near the bay. Great stuff, but the cost is now near the Hevi metal, and Black Cloud stuff. Since I have not purchased much in the way of regular ammo in a few years i was hoping someone had some experience through a Beretta Extremma II shotgun. I typically shot 3.5" shells, as with my source it was not much more for the 3.5". it also patterend better than the 3" stuff, so i went with it. 

My question:
Excluding all the Bismuth, Hevi-Shot stuff, what steel works best for you ? I was looking at the Prarie Storm, Blind Side, Winchester Expert, Fiocchi, Estate, Kent, and anything else cheap. 

I have not heard much on Prarie Storm, Fiochhi, or Estate.


----------



## Water swatter (Aug 16, 2012)

I like kent and blind side never had a problem with either 


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## woodie slayer (Feb 25, 2006)

always had good luck with kent
but it's not cheap anymore either


----------



## LayinLow (Oct 25, 2011)

I believe prairie storm is lead that is why it is cheaper than black cloud.

A lot of my buddies raz me for shooting black cloud out of the layout boat but I like it it shoots good out of my gun and I kill a lot of ducks. It will put a dent in your wallet though.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Bellyup said:


> Excluding all the Bismuth, Hevi-Shot stuff


With as bad as Michigan duck hunting is, I would definetly make every shot count and buy premium shells. No sense skimping and missing one of the few opportunities you get.


----------



## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

I've had very good luck with Hevi-metal. Patterns good and very few cripples. $25 mail in rebate on case right now and free shipping through Rogers.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## duckhtr213890 (Feb 9, 2008)

Just regular federals 3" #2 pattern great out of my nova at 40 yards. $99 a case with free shipping at Rogers. And prairie storm is the lead version of black cloud


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## camocladicebuster13th. (Mar 14, 2010)

GOOD luck with black cloud, and i shot alot of kent to though.


----------



## goosehunter31 (Sep 22, 2009)

been shooting kent faststeel and love it i only shoot 3 inch and get a case for 140 after shipping.


----------



## QuackCocaine (Nov 14, 2010)

I always look for something that has a nice balance between high velocity, and weight of the shot. For example, Black Cloud 12 guage 3.5in #2 has a velocity of 1500fps and a shot weight of 1.5oz. Im sure there are other STEEL loads that have those kinds of specs, however, I'm a big fan of Federal's Flight Control Wad. 

I still use many other brands of shells, because I don't like paying the $25 a box. I'd have to say my second choice would be Kent Fasteel 12 ga 3.5in #3. It has a velocity of 1625fps and a shot weight of 1.25oz.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Shlwego (Sep 13, 2006)

Bellyup said:


> Okay, the cost of reloading has gotten to the point it no longer pays. I was purchaing new ammo built through Fiocchi hulls from a place near the bay. Great stuff, but the cost is now near the Hevi metal, and Black Cloud stuff. Since I have not purchased much in the way of regular ammo in a few years i was hoping someone had some experience through a Beretta Extremma II shotgun. I typically shot 3.5" shells, as with my source it was not much more for the 3.5". it also patterend better than the 3" stuff, so i went with it.
> 
> My question:
> Excluding all the Bismuth, Hevi-Shot stuff, what steel works best for you ? I was looking at the Prarie Storm, Blind Side, Winchester Expert, Fiocchi, Estate, Kent, and anything else cheap.
> ...


First of all, since you said you patterend your previous rounds, you know how important patterning is. Price is not everything when it comes to shotgun ammo: expensive heavier-than-lead stuff may not pattern as well as less expensive steel. Or it may. But until you've actually put out a pattern board, you'll never know. For my money I'd rather put more pellets on target with steel than use a premium no-tox round with a blown pattern. Having said that, I also shoot a Beretta Extrema II, so I think you could expect similar results to what I've experienced.

PMC is known more for their handgun and centerfire rifle cartridges, but they also make shotgun ammo. Last season I used their High Velocity Magnum Steel 3" #3 1-1/4 Ounce 1450 fps shells almost exclusively. It patterend very consistently at 30 yards (modified choke), and because cost is important to me, I find the #3 shot size to be a good compromise (typically I used either #2s or #4s depeding on the situation). The #3s proved lethal on Canadas, Specks, and Sandhills in the fields in Saskatchewan, and worked great for ducks over decoys here in Michigan. I believe I paid around $125 for a case, so it's also pretty affordable.


----------



## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

Kent FastSteel 1 9/16 oz #2's through an Extended Range Patternmaster. If I'm hunting smaller water for duck only, I'll switch to #4's.


----------



## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

Bellyup said:


> Do you have any valid input, or just the B.S. ?
> To go along with you anyway, most of the ammo I use up is on trips to other states. I have a few planned this year. I use about 4 or 5 boxes total in MI on an average season. I am nowhere near as skilled as you and your killing crew, nor do I have the means. I tend to make due with what I can.


Come on man. Lighten up. Life can't be so damn serious all of the time.


----------



## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

field-n-feathers said:


> Come on man. Lighten up. Life can't be so damn serious all of the time.


I deleted my post.


----------



## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

_Do you have any valid input, or just the B.S. ? _

In this case B.S.

But in seriousness, if I felt as strongly as you do that my opportunities are extremely limited to the point that it is not worth hunting in Michigan, I'd be paying $2/shell for the opportunities I do have. Sort of like me and geese. For the 3 times a year I shoot geese with Dedgoose, I just shoot Hevi and call it good.


----------



## mwakely (Jan 7, 2004)

I shoot an Extrema and have kilt ducks and geese with cheap old #2 shot 3 inch Experts. I shot all the other expensive stuff and patterened it all as well. After all of my experiments through different brands and chokes (except Pattern Master) Xperts and a factory LM choke patterened good and kilt ducks and geese when I did my part.


----------



## sullyxlh (Oct 28, 2004)

Winchester 3" BB
$40 a 100 at Cabelas 
and it kills geese just as good as snob ammo.
they also have 3.5 for $40 per 75rds


----------



## Water_Hazard (Aug 16, 2006)

TSS Caddis said:


> With as bad as Michigan duck hunting is, I would definetly make every shot count and buy premium shells. No sense skimping and missing one of the few opportunities you get.


I disagree. I would recommend buying the cheapest shot available. Then spend the money saved to drive to the parts of Michigan that the seasons are catered to.


----------



## WoW. (Aug 11, 2011)

Water_Hazard said:


> I disagree. I would recommend buying the cheapest shot available.


Gosh darn it man---don't be tellin' people that stuff.


The best ammo out there is the stuff you can snatch out of blinder bags when people are focusing on other things.

I keep telling myself to have somebody load me a bunch of ammo with confetti...:lol:


----------



## Water swatter (Aug 16, 2012)

WoW. said:


> Gosh darn it man---don't be tellin' people that stuff.
> 
> 
> The best ammo out there is the stuff you can snatch out of blinder bags when people are focusing on other things.
> ...


Last day last year my buddy gave me a shell to try, looked a little different loaded it for got about it, first blue bill comes in he didn't even shoot he watched me give the duck a shower in confetti

I was a little mad but had to laugh


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## The Doob (Mar 4, 2007)

I like Heavy Metal #3's - the plus side of having a small amount of Hevi-shot + plus velocity + price (I think I paid either $189 or $199 for a case from Rogers). I mainly shoot open water over decoying divers.


----------



## choc24/7 (Jan 22, 2008)

i have always shot Supremes but switched last year to Federal and no probs at all....the waterfowl loads, blue box.....$139/case compared to $250 and no complaints at all..


----------



## duckcommander101 (Jan 14, 2003)

I think that HevMetal is a great shell (I prefer 3" 3s), and it has been a very effective load for me and quite a few of the guys that I hunt with.

As a previous poster already said there is currently a $25.00 rebate on a case purchase.


----------



## DEDGOOSE (Jan 19, 2007)

The Doob said:


> I like Heavy Metal #3's - the plus side of having a small amount of Hevi-shot + plus velocity + price (I think I paid either $189 or $199 for a case from Rogers). I mainly shoot open water over decoying divers.


Its not real hevishot


----------



## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

Fed blue box or Win Xpert, 3" 2-4...whatever is cheapest.


----------



## walleyeman2006 (Sep 12, 2006)

Hevi metal is blended steel and hevi shot....prairy storm does make have a non toxic load as some areas are totally none tox......i have zero experience with any 3.5 in load...hevi shot is worth 2 bucks a shot if you dont miss much...#4 hevi duck loads smoke geese ...i try to buy the high density stuff on sale..got a bunch of winchester b shot supremelite for 13 a box testing soon lol


_Posted from Michigan-sportsman.com App for Android_


----------



## QuackQuackBoom (Aug 17, 2012)

I use 3 inch winchester xperts in #2 shot..its cheap, and it works


----------



## Bow Hunter Brandon (Jan 15, 2003)

Bellyup,
don't you love all the replies. "I shoot this I shoot that". So far it looks like only one answer to your question from someone shooting your setup though.
I believe in the past Shlwego got good results shooting kent fast steel 3" #2 and #4 when we were in Canada.

unless I am mistaken you shoot a gas operated gun. So I would avoid the 99$ a case federal blue box shells. They might pattern well but are very dirty and in a gas gun its just not worth the hassle. Personally I don't believe in wasting money on designer loads. If you not able to kill ducks and geese with plain old steel shot your simply not hitting them. From what you said your modivation on looking for new shells was based on cost as well. So that really leaves only two brands I know of and that is Eperts and Kents. Both pattern well out of my gun. I choose Kents as my go to shell simply because they are a little higher quality. I am sure you saw the old post on the experts not having uniformed shot in them. They still kill birds but I would prefer a uniform pellet in size an shape so I get a good pattern every time. The difference in case price is between 10 and 20 bucks so I pop for the Kent and buy two cases at a time. If I run out or want to shoot #4's for teal Ill pick up a box of Experts.

My suggestion is to go to Gander Mountain, pay there over inflated price for a box of Kent's in what ever size and # you shoot, and a box of Experts and pattern them. If they both pattern well then go with the Kents. If only the experts pattern well then go with them. Order your case online or buy them at a Cabela's store.

Good Luck!


----------



## T.J. (Mar 1, 2009)

I shoot Fiocchi any more these days. I'm ur like me and like to kill things hard. I'd say try the golden goose loads at over 1400 fps you deliver a 1 5/8 oz load of steel. 160 a case. I have shot there 1 9/16 shells for a few years and will likely move on to the golden goose. More is never bad.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## Deadeye Mike (Oct 16, 2007)

I agree with dkhntr, I have been using Federals, Winchesters and Remington 3" forever - 2s and 4s. They are not a premuim shell but I kill as many ducks as my buds who like to use premium shells from time to time. My only secret is to let the ducks get into 30 to 40 yard range before firing the first shot. No skybusting, no long shots. If you cannot identify the species, sex and see the colors of the target duck, it's too far away!


----------



## Goosedown (Jan 12, 2009)

My gun likes the kent 1 9/16th in 2s. I would like 3s, Cabellas will not carry. Go big or go home. Lots of geese moving off shore today from the south end of the bay.


----------



## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

Goosedown said:


> My gun likes the kent 1 9/16th in 2s. I would like 3s, Cabellas will not carry. Go big or go home. Lots of geese moving off shore today from the south end of the bay.


Kent's 1 9/16 oz #2's is a fantastic goose load.


----------



## Shlwego (Sep 13, 2006)

Bow Hunter Brandon said:


> Bellyup,
> don't you love all the replies. "I shoot this I shoot that". So far it looks like only one answer to your question from someone shooting your setup though.
> I believe in the past Shlwego got good results shooting kent fast steel 3" #2 and #4 when we were in Canada.


That's true. The Kents worked great in my set up. But I was buying a case of #2s and a case of #4s, and after a week or two rolling around in the blind bag, it was hard to tell which was which. So last season I just settled on #3s as a compromise. Kent does make a #3 in the weight and velocity I use, but it's significantly more money than the PMC, so I patterned a box of PMCs and then bought a case ($121.40 at "Cheaper than Dirt."). Even with shipping they're less than the Kents.


----------



## The Doob (Mar 4, 2007)

This discussion always seems to devolve to the "cheap stuff" versus the "snob" stuff. I find it humerous, kind of like the Commecheros from the old Blazing Saddles movie - "Badges, we don't need no stinking badges". So the cheap stuff crowd denigrates those who pay anything but for the cheapest shells as being poor shots, unable to accurately judge distances and substandard hunters for not letting them get close enough.

But the truth be told, we don't seem to mind going to the mats in other areas. For instance, most duck boats are on the smaller side and could be satisfactorily towed to the launch with a Ranger or an S-10, probably even your family sedan. And 99% of the time there is no need for 4WD either. But just pull into the boat launch and see what is parked there - 3/4 ton 4X4's with big tires. This analogy it not intended to offend those with big vehicles, I drive a 4wd Suburban. But most times, I will go an entire season and never have more than me and my buddy in the truck and don't engage the 4X4 feature. 

Then again there have been a number of times when the big vehicle has saved my bacon, kept me from being stranded or hauled 4 guys to the marsh. This same "be prepared" approach to the vehicle I also use when purchasing shotgun shells. Most of my compadres consider me an above average shot and I believe that 75% of the time, Kents and Experts would be all that I need to fill a limit. But who can predict when the wind might begin to howl, the ducks flare, you are not perfectly centered on the bird at the shot or that prize bird is crossing at the edge of the effective range of your load. 

Ballistically, some of the more advanced loads will provide you with more foot/pounds of energy at the point of impact, better patterns and more overall lethality. There is a reason why they are more expensive other than just the fancy box, hype and endless advertising. 

I understand that I am able to, at this point in life, afford shells that maybe others cannot. If Experts/Kents are all you can go with, then by all means, blaze away and enjoy the sport. I will not look down my nose at anyone and I am sure some stud can out shoot me with the cheaper ammo - not a problem.

And as far as spending the extra dough to increase your chances of success during the limited opportunities presented to you, I get that too. Case in point. Two Christmas's ago, my two son's and I had the glorious once in a lifetime chance to hunt together on a sea duck hunting trip to Maine. In preparation and not knowing what entirely to expect, I purchased some of the close out Federal Heavyweight 3" shells from Rogers at $169 a case = $1.69 every time we pulled the trigger. On December 29th, in the ocean during extremes circumstances, we were all able to kill beautiful drake oldsquaws - pass shooting at 60 yards (the guides estimate, not mine - I kept telling the boys don't shoot and the guide was telling them to, he knew they weren't coming any closer). These three trophies (along with several Eiders and a white winged Scoter) now sit in our dens for us to enjoy for a lifetime. The Federal Heavyweights saved the trip!!!

Whatever you shoot, good luck to you this fall.


----------



## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

Brandon, you are right, I was looking more for Extrema II loads to get me closer to the mark than simply buying 10 brands to try. Might as well buy the good stuff If I have to go buy ten boxes of cheap stuff to pattern. 

Thanks for all the replies guys, and the PM's. I will see what I can do. And if you have any more input, feel free to post.


----------



## SILVER FOX (Jan 5, 2009)

I got to laugh at you guys that spend money on clothes, decoys ,blinds, time off work, get up early, etc. And the last thing between you and a goose or a duck--- you get cheap. Not to mention the ethical harvesting of waterfowl versus hitting birds and watch them fly, swim or walk away.
I don't think you need to use hevi-shot but at least use hevi-metal or something comparable.


----------



## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

I laugh at guys that try and compensate for their lack of skill with "enhanced" products.

Still the best duck loads ever invented...


----------



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

KLR said:


> I laugh at guys that try and compensate for their lack of skill with "enhanced" products.
> 
> Still the best duck loads ever invented...
> 
> View attachment 20660


people would laugh at me if they saw my shell belt about october 30th. it looks like the rainbow from scavenging left over shells from all the people i hunt with and they leave in my boat. lol

this year i ponied up and bought 2 cases of kents in the offseason. should get me thru october.


----------



## Bow Hunter Brandon (Jan 15, 2003)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> people would laugh at me if they saw my shell belt about october 30th. it looks like the rainbow from scavenging left over shells from all the people i hunt with and they leave in my boat. lol
> 
> this year i ponied up and bought 2 cases of kents in the offseason. should get me thru october.


I hunted last year late in the season by myself. I still remember the hunt it was an afternoon and I had one box of shells left. I had a hunt planned the next morning and I did not want to break into that last box. I hunted with all the live shells off the bottom of the boat floor. Quite the mix for shells from what I remember. Killed 11 birds in an hour that afternoon and went home. 

KLR, could not agree more


----------



## BFG (Mar 4, 2005)

Failed to mention that the better hunter you are, the cheaper the ammo you can get away with in the field. 

That's what it all boils down to IMO....if you never have to take a shot over 30 yards, it doesn't matter what ammo you are shooting. 

If you suck at hunting...like me...you need ammo that at least gives you a damn chance with your inept camo-calling-decoy placement skills. 

Your choice should also be influenced by the type of waterfowl hunting in which you participate. Do you hunt SGA's? Open water? Public beaches? Public parks? Are you shooting decoying birds? Are you roost busting? Are you pass shooting as they come over the trees? 

I shot Estates out of the layout boat for years, and there are holes on my grey rain coat from still-burning powder that was thrown onto me when my gun cycled. Dirty....as in...trailer park, no bath for a week, 90 degrees w/ no AC dirty...and the same can be said for Federal Ultra Shok or whatever it is in the blue box that they sell for $99 a case at Rogers Outdoor Walmart. Ugh....no better way to turn your gas gun into a single shot. But....it is all cheap...so it is all relative. When layout gunning, my shots were always less than 25 yards, and I shot a lot...so Estates fit my need nicely, and I accepted the burns and weekly aloe treatments on Sunday nights. 

As I have aged (less like a fine wine and more like an old pumpkin), my hunting opportunities have decreased. In the past, if I missed three ducks in a morning hunt, it was no big deal. "I'll get 'em tomorrow.." I would say... Now...if I miss three ducks in a morning, its more like "dammit...junior has soccer tomorrow, sissy has volleyball next week, and the wife has Bunco on Sunday...and I used up my vacation at Mickey Mouse Land in April..." Soooo.....

For the past few years, I have purchased higher performing ammunition. Black Cloud and Hevi-Metal are my ammo of choice, both in 3"...1's 2's, 3's and occasionally BB's. They both run well through my 870, X2, and 11-87. 

So to surmise, if your hunting skills suck, and you don't get out that often, you would be doing yourself a dis-service by purchasing cheap ammo. If you are a stone-cold killa, one who has kilt himself a lot of ducks in his time, there is absolutely, positively, no need for expensive ammunition. Spend all that extra money on high dollar decoys, acrylic calls, DVD's, GoPro barrel cams, and the like. 

Hope that helped....


----------



## Dahmer (Jan 22, 2007)

SILVER FOX said:


> I got to laugh at you guys that spend money on clothes, decoys ,blinds, time off work, get up early, etc. And the last thing between you and a goose or a duck--- you get cheap. Not to mention the ethical harvesting of waterfowl versus hitting birds and watch them fly, swim or walk away.
> I don't think you need to use hevi-shot but at least use hevi-metal or something comparable.


We killed over 400 ducks using cheap Federal Blue Box steel shot. No need to use expensive steel shot. But hey what do i know.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> people would laugh at me if they saw my shell belt about october 30th. it looks like the rainbow from scavenging left over shells from all the people i hunt with and they leave in my boat. lol
> 
> this year i ponied up and bought 2 cases of kents in the offseason. should get me thru october.


There is an MS moderator that had Active hulls rolling around the floor of the boat the other year. Now that is hitting the bottom of the barrel.


----------



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

TSS Caddis said:


> There is an MS moderator that had Active hulls rolling around the floor of the boat the other year. Now that is hitting the bottom of the barrel.


haha that said "moderator" wouldn't happen to start with B and end with A does it?


----------



## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> haha that said "moderator" wouldn't happen to start with B and end with A does it?


I don't recall. Still traumitized from seeing these babies.


----------



## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

I have a spot (public) that has some close up shots at times. I purchased some 7.5 shot in Hevi-Shot once. That my friends is a DEADLY load. It shreds geese too, out to 30 yards (approx yardage I brought a couple down). This is no BS, so don't jump all over me. I think the 7.5 Hevi Shot would be ideal for layout hunting if it patterns through your gun. Expensive, but it is layout hunting, and a lot of folks have a lot wrapped up in tender boats and layout rigs, etc.


----------



## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

Put who wants to pick that much shot out of birds? 

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## BFG (Mar 4, 2005)

> Put who wants to pick that much shot out of birds?


Those who enjoy the awesome taste of fresh bufflehead kabobs....that's who!


----------



## QuackCocaine (Nov 14, 2010)

expensive shells, cheap shells, whatever. try every and all types you can, and shoot what works best for you! and dont worry about how much money is flying out of another guys barrel at a merganser


----------



## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

Huntermax-4 said:


> Put who wants to pick that much shot out of birds?
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


???? Never saw a recipe for the heads.


----------



## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

KLR said:


> ???? Never saw a recipe for the heads.


 Sorry "Chief", I don't like putting pellets in the head. They don't look as good for my hero shots in McDonald's parking lots..... 

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

Huntermax-4 said:


> Sorry "Chief", I don't like putting pellets in the head. They don't look as good for my hero shots in McDonald's parking lots.....
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


McDonald's? That's pretty spendy isn't it? :lol:


----------



## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

They got a dollar menu.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------

