# Warning....YOU NEED TO GET INVOLVED NOW



## Rooster Cogburn

Just received word, the petition currently being circulated by sportsmen to defend against the 2014 HSUS ballot initiative needs your help NOW.
Just received word, only 6,000 signatures have been sent in so far. To be successful we need 2,000 signatures a day. Fail to do your part and we lose. This is no time to sit back and expect others to get it done for you.

Go to: citizenswild.com and sign up to get petition forms mailed to you. Be sure to read the directions and follow them to the letter, or signatures will not count.


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## CHASINEYES

Could you provide a valid link?

Got it. http://www.citizenswildlife.com/


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## john warren

to quote one of mr. waynes characters,,,,"fill your hands ,,you son of a bitttt"


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## Spartan88

I have some coming in the mail...


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## hunt city bucks

I also signed up to have some sent to me. Hopefully more on this site are doing the same...


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## PWood

I have a couple in the Warren area if someone wants to sign a petition.


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## WAUB-MUKWA

It will pick up once winter is gone, but that still doesn't mean people should continue to sit on their thumbs doing nothing.


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## EdB

I've got petitions in the Jackson/Washtenaw area if you want sign or need some. Quite a broad coalition of support for this, here are the endorsements.

Kirk Gibson - Former Detroit Tiger and current Arizona Diamondbacks Manager
Jimmy Gretzinger - Host of Michigan Out-of-Doors TV
Mike Avery&#8217;s Outdoor Magazine
Wild Michigan &#8211; Outdoors Radio Show w/ Duran Martinez
U.P. Trails & Tales Radio w/ Tim Kobasic
Bob Garner &#8211; former host of Michigan Out-of-Doors TV and member of the Michigan Conservation Hall of Fame
Michigan Outdoor News
Woods&#8217;N'Water News
Michigan OutofDoors Magazine
Haggard&#8217;s Plumbing and Heating
State Sen. Tom Casperson (R &#8211; Escanaba)
State Rep. Ed McBroom (R &#8211; Vulcan)
State Rep. Scott Dianda (D &#8211; Calumet)
James A. Lorenson &#8211; President of Gogebic Community College &#8211; Ironwood, MI
Michigan United Conservation Clubs
U.P. Bear Houndsmen
Upper Peninsula Sportsmen&#8217;s Alliance
Michigan chapters of Safari Club International
Michigan Trappers and Predator Callers Association
Michigan Hunting Dog Federation
U.P. Whitetails, Inc.
Michigan Bear Hunters Association
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
U.P. Whitetails, Inc. of Marquette :
Michigan Steelhead and Salmon Fishermen&#8217;s Association
Michigan Gun Owners
Michigan Bow Hunters Association
Great Lakes Council &#8211; Federation of Fly Fishers
National Wild Turkey Federation
Quality Deer Management Association &#8211; Michigan Advisory Council
Trapperman Trapping and Nuisance Control
Saginaw Field & Stream Conservation Club
Negaunee Rod & Gun Club
Frankenmuth Conservation Club
North Macomb Sportsmen&#8217;s Club
North Oakland Sportsmen&#8217;s Club
Wilderness Sports, Ispheming, MI
Iron Mountain Power Sports
Marquette Power Sports
Houghton Power Sports
Midway Rentals & Sales, Marquette, MI
Balsley Lure Company
Gary L. Towns, Retired DNR Lake Erie Management Unit Supervisor
Bait Plus LLC, Negaunee, MI
Pretty Hunter
Mark Romanack, host of Fishing 411
Detroit Buck Club
Ducks & Bucks Cartblinds
MSU Fishing Club
Ludington Charter Boat Association
Northeast Michigan Branch of Quality Deer Management Association


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## O'sdad

Rooster Cogburn said:


> Just received word, the petition currently being circulated by sportsmen to defend against the 2014 HSUS ballot initiative needs your help NOW.
> Just received word, only 6,000 signatures have been sent in so far. To be successful we need 2,000 signatures a day. Fail to do your part and we lose. This is no time to sit back and expect others to get it done for you.
> 
> Go to: citizenswild.com and sign up to get petition forms mailed to you. Be sure to read the directions and follow them to the letter, or signatures will not count.


 This may well be "The Big One" as far as epic battles with the anti hunter/trapper groups. If we win this one, it should send the s.o.b.'s limping off permanently with their tails between their legs. If we loose this deal, we are sunk as far as common-sense scientific wildlife management is concerned in Michigan. We loose this, and they will end up throwing a wrench into the whole North American Wildlife Management System, a system that is the envy of the entire world, and a system that will collapse if it comes down to management-by-public-referendum.
Dale Hendershot, from MTPCA, dropped off some petitions for me yesterday. I hope to fill every line with a valid signature. I also donated 51 copies of my Headwaters Legacy limited addition print. I hope MUCC sends a copy to every group that wants one to auction off. If they run out, I've got more!! We all need to do our part, so our kids and grandkids don't ask us about how we lost their heritage due to apathy.


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## Jager Pro

When is the deadline?


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## FREEPOP

I have 20 filled that will be sent out this weekend. Received another 50 to work on filling.
I hope we send a good enough message that they decide there efforts are pretty much a waste here.


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## justlurking

You want APRs statewide which in effect will be the end of me, my familys, and a lot of other peoples deer hunting, and you want my signature / vote?
Yea, F***** right!!!


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## FREEPOP

justlurking said:


> You want APRs statewide which in effect will be the end of me, my familys, and a lot of other peoples deer hunting, and you want my signature / vote?
> Yea, F***** right!!!


This has nothing to do with APRs  :lol::lol:


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## Jager Pro

FREEPOP said:


> This has nothing to do with APRs  :lol::lol:


My thoughts exactly :lol:


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## EdB

> You want APRs statewide which in effect will be the end of me, my familys, and a lot of other peoples deer hunting, and you want my signature / vote?
> Yea, F***** right!!!


This has nothing to do with APR's. This is only about stopping anti hunting groups from starting ballot campaigns to outlaw certain hunting practises. The did this and won on doves. They are doing this now with wolves and will surely win if we do not stop them with this initiative. If they win on wolves, they will go back to the east and left coast, boast how they won in Michigan and raise even more money and come back next year to target another one of our sports, probably hound hunting or trapping. With every win, they get stronger and come back for more. You can stand with hunters and anglers or you can stand with HSUS and PETA. I hope you get informed and make the right choice


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## AntiHuntersLoveMe

justlurking said:


> You want APRs statewide which in effect will be the end of me, my familys, and a lot of other peoples deer hunting, and you want my signature / vote?
> Yea, F***** right!!!


Read much :what:


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## justlurking

The only hunting we do is deer hunting and you guys push for APRs will be the end of hunting for us.
Why should I care if decisions for game rules goes to the vote of the people?
It would be better than having the NRC / DNR in bed with the special interest trophy groups.


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## Critter

justlurking said:


> The only hunting we do is deer hunting and you guys push for APRs will be the end of hunting for us.
> Why should I care if decisions for game rules goes to the vote of the people?
> It would be better than having the NRC / DNR in bed with the special interest trophy groups.


And this is why we will lose. Because people like this are butthurt and it's all about me me me and mine.


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## EdB

> Why should I care if decisions for game rules goes to the vote of the people?


One good reason is that the majority of people in this state do not hunt or care about hunting. The majority of non hunters can be easily swayed by million dollar ad campaigns with lies about hunting. It has happened in Mi before and in many other states.


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## dt7

Just made the request for the petition in the Monroe County area. Hopefully we can send back pages and pages of signed petitions!


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## AntiHuntersLoveMe

justlurking said:


> Its the wording of your goal
> "...BIOLOGICAL SCIENCE..."
> This would eliminate social science (the will of the people).
> We only deer Hunt.
> When MAPRs go into effect state wide our deer hunting will probably be over.
> If we loose the ability to use bait to assist us in hunting our deer hunting will definitely be over (we were going to quit by the third year of the bait ban).
> You posted that its all about me and my selfishness, well that's how I feel about you and your MAPRs, you only want to see bucks with larger antlers and bragging buck on your walls and to hell with everybody else.
> Sorry but you will not get my signature or my vote.
> And sorry to say that maybe my cousin mailing that petition to the humane society would be the smartest thing to do.


Please stop, your embarrassing yourself!


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## CHASINEYES

FREEPOP said:


> Wow, you admit on a public forum that you continued to bait while the ban was in effect and you were going to comply in the third year
> If a MAPR is passed, I think one of the many COs here could very easily get your IP address and then your name and home address, just to make sure you didn't wait until the third year to comply. THEN YOUR HUNTING WILL PROBABLY BE OVER :lol:
> 
> There is no biological science behind MAPRs, for every scientist that says that there is one, there's another that says that it will have no impact. This is about preserving the wolf hunt and all the hunting, fishing and trapping we now have in the state from out of state Antis. Nothing more....nothing less.


I think he meant they were ready to quit hunting by the 3rd year of the bait ban. 3 years without the use of bait wasn't settling well with them.

I would suggest looking for better habitat that deer use naturally under those circumstances.


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## Jager Pro

FREEPOP said:


> *THIS IS NOT ABOUT MAPRS*
> 
> *THIS IS NOT ABOUT MAPRS*
> 
> *THIS IS NOT ABOUT MAPRS!*
> 
> *THIS IS NOT ABOUT MAPRS*


Wait so you're saying that the decision on whether to keep the wolf hunt has nothing to do with how many antler points a deer has? That is mind boggling that the *two issues have nothing to do with each other*


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## justlurking

Will never get my signature or vote


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## Jager Pro

justlurking said:


> Will never get my signature or vote


Because the HSUS winning will prevent MARPs?


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## Robert Holmes

I will get a bunch for my office... I have my doubts that it will stop them but it will slow them down a little bit. I just hate the cube farm biologists from California. Anyway regardless of what they do as long as I have guns, bows, rods and reels I will hunt and fish. Stupidity is not sound wildlife management.


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## miruss

This is from another one of these threads begging for help that sums up a lot of peoples feelings right or wrong . When the HSUS wins be sure to send a thank you to BIO and his friends!!!



Tron322 said:


> Problem I have supporting this petition lies right there.
> 
> 
> I enjoy those rainy or wet snow days, just going out and sneaking, if others are hunting with me we sneak the same direction or do a small drive, can't do that anymore in the TC area.
> 
> 
> none of my stalking guns or bows have optics, if I see antlers in the past I would shoot, now that activity is banned, stopped, and interfered with. hard to count points sometimes at longer distances, just one personal example, we can all think of our own.
> 
> 
> And there is no scientific data saying that it will help the herd, it is social pressure from groups similar to one that has bought a whole page of advertisement in our hunting guide, to me that is a special interest group pushing their own agenda, same as the humane society IMO .
> 
> 
> If the LPDMI passes like I am sure it will there will be a lot of disenfranchised voters angry with the DNR and blaming them regardless of where the blame is placed, we all know if any regulations change, fish stocking drops, their favorite spot is clearcut, etc. the DNR is always to blame and the question will be asked "what have you done for me lately" while in the ballot box.
> 
> 
> The Humane Society and other anti hunting groups may see the splits going on recently within Michigan as a chance to strike, a lot of sportsman are unhappy (APR, Baiting, Cutting Salmon Stocks, Change in license fee/structure just to think of a few) disention is in the ranks and this is going to be their best chance to get a big win.
> 
> 
> personally to get my vote the APR rules need to be abolished, with them in place the way I hunt deer is dead, if my lack of action ruins the hunt for those that ruined my hunt it will make us even. hate to say it like that but those in charge of making the rules haven't asked me yet.
> 
> 
> I know APR has nothing to do with the substance of this petition but there are unintended consequences for everything. a reaction for every reaction. the passing of any APR means I am not helping the DNR or NRC with anything, if I am in the minority then you guys have nothing to worry about.


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## WAUB-MUKWA

Social science is why we are in trouble now! You want some person who doesn't know anything or is coached by some organization that also doesn't know anything about hunting, trapping or fishing to vote? If the DNR isn't qualified to make decisions then no one is! The NRC may not be certified biologists but they as sports persons do listen to what the DNR says.

Social science is the death of anything outdoors.


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## swampbuck

WAUB-MUKWA said:


> Social science is why we are in trouble now! You want some person who doesn't know anything or is coached by some organization that also doesn't know anything about hunting, trapping or fishing to vote? If the DNR isn't qualified to make decisions then no one is! The NRC may not be certified biologists but they as sports persons do listen to what the DNR says.
> 
> Social science is the death of anything outdoors.


They don't always listen to the DNR. On the crossbow issue which the DNR supported, it took legislative action for the NRC to come up with their B.S. compromise.......mostly due to the MUCC and MBHA fighting the use of crossbows


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## Craves

justlurking said:


> Its the wording of your goal
> "...BIOLOGICAL SCIENCE..."
> This would eliminate social science (the will of the people).
> We only deer Hunt.
> When MAPRs go into effect state wide our deer hunting will probably be over.
> If we loose the ability to use bait to assist us in hunting our deer hunting will definitely be over (we were going to quit by the third year of the bait ban).
> You posted that its all about me and my selfishness, well that's how I feel about you and your MAPRs, you only want to see bucks with larger antlers and bragging buck on your walls and to hell with everybody else.
> Sorry but you will not get my signature or my vote.
> And sorry to say that maybe my cousin mailing that petition to the humane society would be the smartest thing to do.


Before you go sounding off on a public forum, you might take the time to get informed on the subject and what is at stake.

These people will continue to whittle away at EVERYONE'S hunting rights, whether you are for or against APR's.

Multiple people have written that this is way bigger than and NOT about APR's.

Wake up and get informed.



Sent from my SPH-L710 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## justlurking

Explain to me just why I should give a rats ...
We only hunt deer, we are going to be finished with the changes the big antler special interest are trying to push off on us who don't want it.
Why should I care?
You're not getting my signature or my vote.
I hope the NRC becomes powerless and is resolved.


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## Craves

justlurking said:


> Explain to me just why I should give a rats ...
> We only hunt deer, we are going to be finished with the changes the big antler special interest are trying to push off on us who don't want it.
> Why should I care?
> You're not getting my signature or my vote.
> I hope the NRC becomes powerless and is resolved.


Do yourself a favor. Go to the HSUS web site and use their search option and search by "hunting position". 

Read how they feel about ANY hunting. They are out to end any form of hunting all together. Any animal, ANYWHERE.

You and I can stand apart on the issue of APR's, but we must stand together to protect everyone's hunting rights.

Again, this is much bigger than APR's.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## FREEPOP

Craves try this


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## Craves

I know that you and I don't agree about APR's, but we both see this issue is much bigger than antlers. 



Sent from my SPH-L710 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Jager Pro

justlurking said:


> Explain to me just why I should give a rats ...
> We only hunt deer, we are going to be finished with the changes the big antler special interest are trying to push off on us who don't want it.
> Why should I care?
> You're not getting my signature or my vote.
> I hope the NRC becomes powerless and is resolved.


What if APRs don't go into effect and you continue to deer hunt, but at the same time the HSUS wins and the wolf hunt becomes illegal-- without a control on the wolf numbers you won't have any deer to hunt.


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## miruss

Craves said:


> I know that you and I don't agree about APR's, but we both see this issue is much bigger than antlers.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


I guess you guys should have thought of that before you divided over half the deer hunters with the push for MAPR. You've spent last last 6 months bashing people who are against the MAPR now you want them to come to your side and sign this thing only in your dream world . It's been told to you guys countless times there a some guys that only hunt deer a few times a yr that could give a rats ass if they have big antlers or not and they have been told sense they only hunt a few times they shouldn't matter. Well guess what MAPR take away their hunting so what the heck makes you think they care if your your hunting gets taken away. You guys really do live in a dream world!!!


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## Craves

miruss said:


> I guess you guys should have thought of that before you divided over half the deer hunters with the push for MAPR. You've spent last last 6 months bashing people who are against the MAPR now you want them to come to your side and sign this thing only in your dream world . It's been told to you guys countless times there a some guys that only hunt deer a few times a yr that could give a rats ass if they have big antlers or not and they have been told sense they only hunt a few times they shouldn't matter. Well guess what MAPR take away their hunting so what the heck makes you think they care if your your hunting gets taken away. You guys really do live in a dream world!!!


Dream world?

Wake up and smell the flowers. HSUS aims to end ALL hunting for EVERYONE.

Let me type that again...ALL HUNTING FOR EVERYONE.

That means all deer, whether they have big antlers, little antlers, or no antlers. 

Go to their website and read their own words.

They will try to end YOUR hunting.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Jager Pro

miruss said:


> I guess you guys should have thought of that before you divided over half the deer hunters with the push for MAPR. You've spent last last 6 months bashing people who are against the MAPR now you want them to come to your side and sign this thing only in your dream world . It's been told to you guys countless times there a some guys that only hunt deer a few times a yr that could give a rats ass if they have big antlers or not and they have been told sense they only hunt a few times they shouldn't matter. Well guess what MAPR take away their hunting so what the heck makes you think they care if your your hunting gets taken away. You guys really do live in a dream world!!!


*This doesn't make any sense!!!* we are not republicans and democrats, we do not have set sides, positions on one stance do not correlate to positions on another stance!!! The sooner you guys understand that the better! This is not Party A asking Party B for support, this is about unifying hunters and protecting our rights! Pro APR guys did not push for the petition, hunters did-- and whether they support APRs or not shouldn't matter! You and JustLurking believe that APR guys turned around and made the petition, but like I just said there was no one group that made it, it is support by most hunters regardless of their position on APRs. 

End rant :rant:


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## EdB

> I guess you guys should have thought of that before you divided over half the deer hunters with the push for MAPR. You've spent last last 6 months bashing people who are against the MAPR now you want them to come to your side and sign this thing only in your dream world . It's been told to you guys countless times there a some guys that only hunt deer a few times a yr that could give a rats ass if they have big antlers or not and they have been told sense they only hunt a few times they shouldn't matter. Well guess what MAPR take away their hunting so what the heck makes you think they care if your your hunting gets taken away.


I don't plan to ever hunt wolves yet I've very invested in this battle with both my wallet and my time because if HSUS wins this, they will be back to ban another form of hunting. They won't stop if they win, don't you understand that. 
Also, where do you and Justlurking come up with this asinine idea that Citizens for Professional Wildlige Management is involved with or pushing APR's. They are not. This is not about APRs. :banghead3


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## Luv2hunteup

> *Originally posted by miruss* I guess you guys should have thought of that before you divided over half the deer hunters with the push for MAPR. You've spent last last 6 months bashing people who are against the MAPR now you want them to come to your side and sign this thing only in your dream world . It's been told to you guys countless times there a some guys that only hunt deer a few times a yr that could give a rats ass if they have big antlers or not and they have been told sense they only hunt a few times they shouldn't matter. Well guess what MAPR take away their hunting so what the heck makes you think they care if your your hunting gets taken away. You guys really do live in a dream world!!!


So in your dream world you are saying it's OK for active service military men and women to have their free hunting licenses taken away? Maybe you should look at the entire issue and take your blinders off.


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## Big Frank 25

No petitions in the mail today. Maybe tomorrow.


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## miruss

EdB said:


> I don't plan to ever hunt wolves yet I've very invested in this battle with both my wallet and my time because if HSUS wins this, they will be back to ban another form of hunting. They won't stop if they win, don't you understand that.
> Also, where do you and Justlurking come up with this asinine idea that Citizens for Professional Wildlige Management is involved with or pushing APR's. They are not. This is not about APRs. :banghead3


NO where did i say that the Citizens for Professional Wildlige Management is involved with or pushing APR's. but theres no way in hell i'm going to do anything to help the DNR or the NRC after the junk they have pulled with regards to the APR'S. 


Jager Pro "it is support by most hunters regardless of their position on APRs. "

You must have missed one of these same threads where the person said it was running about 50-50 on hunters signing just because of the MAPR's stance that have been pushed on people


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## EdB

> theres no way in hell i'm going to do anything to help the DNR or the NRC after the junk they have pulled with regards to the APR'S.


The NRC or DNR is not involved in this petition so you are not helping them by signing it. The NRC or DNR has nothing to do with this. They don't have any say on what happens with this. 

The people you help by supporting this is our fellow UP deer hunters so wolf populations can continue to be managed up there. You are also helping active duty military.

If you don't support this, you are hurting UP deer hunters and helping the anti-hunters win again in MI.


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## FREEPOP

EdB said:


> The NRC or DNR is not involved in this petition so you are not helping them by signing it. The NRC or DNR has nothing to do with this. They don't have any say on what happens with this.
> 
> The people you help by supporting this is our fellow UP deer hunters so wolf populations can continue to be managed up there. You are also helping active duty military.
> 
> If you don't support this, you are hurting UP deer hunters and helping the anti-hunters win again in MI.


He could be helping the lower peninsula deer too, as there are wolves in the NLP and they will need controlling. It says he's a fisherman too and this petition also earmarks money towards the prevention and control of invasive species, including Asian Carp.


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## Zeboy

EdB said:


> Unfortunately, this initiative will not open up dove hunting.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Ed
Not only will it not open it up. It will make it nearly impossible to EVER open it up in Michigan, even if Doves are the most hunted species in the United States. In fact, if you read the fine print, by signing the petition you are agreeing with the outcome of the ballot proposal in 2006. Sorry! I refuse to do that.

This petition is nothing more than a huge smokescreen. It's a pro wolf hunt referendum period. The folks pushing the wolf hunt screwed up twice when they pushed their agenda and passed their law to get a season. Because they screwed up, the antis are forcing referendums on both laws in 2014. The pro wolf guys know that they will never win at the ballot box in 2014 (had they got their S*&t together in the first place the issues wouldn't be headed for referendum). 

Now (in a desperate knee-jerk reaction) they throw out this petition in hopes of avoiding a state wide vote IF they can get the legislature to pass it IF they get enough signatures. To try to cooerce a few anti-leaning politicians, the writers of the petition throw the would-be dove hunters "under the bus" to get their wolf season. 

Bad precedent, Bad verbiabe, Big can of worms!


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## Rooster Cogburn

Whether or not it is intended, those voicing opposition to the petition drive are lending support to HSUS


There is absolutely no mention of wolves in the proposed legislation we are seeking in the petition drive. 


But I do want to make a comment directed at the individuals who have posted in opposition to wolf control though hunting and trapping. First off, the Upper Peninsula of Michigan has about the same number of wolves as the entire state of Idaho. Anybody who advocates against managing this mess, simply put....is advocating the same thing as HSUS. And regarding folks not living here and having no skin in the game to advocate no wolf management in the U.P. is a classic example of what is wrong in Michigan.


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## EdB

Zeboy,
You have a lot of inaccuracies in your post.



> It will make it nearly impossible to EVER open it up in Michigan, even if Doves are the most hunted species in the United States.


It is already nearly impossible to ever open up a dove hunt in Michigan right now because hunters did not unite on that issue and we lost big. Here is another chance for hunters and anglers to win or lose. 



> Because they screwed up, the antis are forcing referendums on both laws in 2014


That is totally false, the anti's would be forcing referendums on wolf hunting regardless how any season was established. They were already fighting it hard to try to stop the Fed from delisting wolves to allow the possibility of a hunt. There would have been a season a few years ago if not for the anti's fighting it then.



> IF they can get the legislature to pass it IF they get enough signatures. To try to cooerce a few anti-leaning politicians, the writers of the petition throw the would-be dove hunters "under the bus" to get their wolf season.


This bill will pass the legislature in its current form, the votes are there. If you specifically added doves to it, it would not pass. You're never going to see a dove season in Michigan established through the legislature. The only way it will ever happen in this state is for residents to approve it on a referendum. Good luck on that, it is over for doves in MI. We lost. 

Now you are willing to kiss off wolf management in MI because the setup is the same as was for doves. Anti's will put it on the ballot and outspend us 5 to 1 and convince the non-hunting public in southern MI with lies to ban wolf management. It will be gone forever like doves and the anti's will be back to target another hunt. You are so full of criticism, what's a better way to stop HSUS from ending wolf management in Michigan this year? 


The one thing you got right was IF we get enough signatures. If we do, we win. If we don't, HSUS will likely win. Sportsman got to choose what side they are on.


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## Zeboy

EdB said:


> Zeboy,
> You have a lot of inaccuracies in your post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is totally false, the anti's would be forcing referendums on wolf hunting regardless how any season was established. They were already fighting it hard to try to stop the Fed from delisting wolves to allow the possibility of a hunt. There would have been a season a few years ago if not for the anti's fighting it then.
> 
> 
> 
> .


You are wrong Ed. Did you ever see CCW put on Referendum? Is Right to Work going to be on the ballot this year?

The answer is NO. 
When appropriations were stripped off the "wolf" bills they should have backed off. Better for it to be not voted on at that time than passed in a fashion that made it open to a Referendum. It was the same mistake Sue Tabor made when she pushed the Dove bill through. The sad thing is the folks on the wolf bill didn't learn anything from the mistakes of their predecessors.

Furthermore, if this petitions gets the signatures it needs and the Legislature fails to approve it or decides just not to vote on it because they don't want to stick their necks out a few months before they are up for election . . . Sportsman will look like fools. It will then go to a State wide vote with no time or resources to raise the money required for victory.


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## EdB

I guess we just have to disagree on this issue, you can sit on the sidelines if you want.


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## Big Frank 25

Big Frank 25 said:


> No petitions in the mail today. Maybe tomorrow.


Several arrived yesterday. 

Thank you!


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## davi5982

Got some in Clare county and gladwin county area.


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## hunt city bucks

I got mine today!


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## AntiHuntersLoveMe

I received some petitions in the mail yesterday! If anyone in the Ypsilanti/Ann Arbor area would like to sign please let me know. I also travel to Dearborn 4 days a week if anyone in the Wayne county area would like to sign. PM's welcome.


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## thetreestandguy

justlurking said:


> Its the wording of your goal
> "...BIOLOGICAL SCIENCE..."
> This would eliminate social science (the will of the people).
> We only deer Hunt.
> When MAPRs go into effect state wide our deer hunting will probably be over.
> If we loose the ability to use bait to assist us in hunting our deer hunting will definitely be over (we were going to quit by the third year of the bait ban).
> You posted that its all about me and my selfishness, well that's how I feel about you and your MAPRs, you only want to see bucks with larger antlers and bragging buck on your walls and to hell with everybody else.
> Sorry but you will not get my signature or my vote.
> And sorry to say that maybe my cousin mailing that petition to the humane society would be the smartest thing to do.


It's very difficult for me to imagine the scenario where I would actually quit hunting deer. I understand there are areas of the state where the experience may be less fulfilling than others, to each his own I suppose. 

But to somehow draw a straight line from those pushing MAPR's to those trying to protect our overall way of life, a hunting tradition, is impossible for me to grasp. This falls exactly in line with the emotional doctrines the anti-hunters want to utilize and have utlized in the past. I totally appreciate that those swayed by pure emotion would be hard to get back with rational logic. This is precisely how I see todays politics in general; one side seems to use emotion while others try to sway with logic. Logic has been poorly presented and emotion has been winning the day. Critical thinking is a seemingly lost art.

I'm just sorry that your emotional passions have sunk you so far down the rabbit hole that you can actually believe "mailing a petition to the humane society would be the smartest thing to do". They likely already have multiple copies with which to formulate battle plans, they are a terribly sophisticated, well-oiled machine. Sending money directly to HSUS would likely do more damage to hunters, the fraternity to which you arguably still belong.

You speak of family and I don't know who they are, perhaps your kids or those of siblings. Sitting on the sidelines is one thing, actively helping out those that would take away their (the kids) very ability to hunt is another altogether. If, for future generations, you have actively helped in taking away their choice to hunt/not hunt, is that something you can live comfortably with? Obviously, on a personal level, your on the fence about your own future with regard to deer hunting. Your clearly a man on fire right now. Maybe helping the other side is merely fiery rhetoric, only you know. I wouldn't be able to sleep if I knew I played an active role in chipping away at the next generations ability to hunt. But that's just me.

Gods speed my friend, I honestly hope that you don't give up hunting. But reading your thoughts has only galvinized my beliefs in how strongly we must attack this scourge to the hunting lifestyle! Doves yesterday, wolves today, what's tomorrow going to bring?


----------



## Big Frank 25

Can petitions be folded to fit a business envelope?

Can I sign a petition I circulate?

Or should I sign a petition circulated by another?


----------



## Jager Pro

Does the NRA know about this? I'm not sure how the NRA is set up, but I would assume they have a Michigan chapter. If so we should make sure it's passed on to them as well.


----------



## EdB

Big Frank 25 said:


> Can petitions be folded to fit a business envelope?
> 
> Can I sign a petition I circulate?
> 
> Or should I sign a petition circulated by another?


You can fold to mail them and you can sign a petition that you circulate.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## Ranger Ray

thetreestandguy said:


> Gods speed my friend, I honestly hope that you don't give up hunting. But reading your thoughts has only galvinized my beliefs in how strongly we must attack this scourge to the hunting lifestyle! Doves yesterday, wolves today, what's tomorrow going to bring?


Between the anti's and special interests within our own hunting and fishing community pushing singular agenda's, more regulation and limitations.


----------



## augustus0603

I received my petition in the mail. When are they due to send back? 

There really is no information with what they sent. It does specify where to send, but not by when. I would like to get enough signatures for all three pages.


----------



## TVCJohn

Zeboy said:


> Furthermore, if this petitions gets the signatures it needs and the Legislature fails to approve it or decides just not to vote on it because they don't want to stick their necks out a few months before they are up for election . . . Sportsman will look like fools. It will then go to a State wide vote with no time or resources to raise the money required for victory.



Strategically speaking....excellent point above. IMO that bears watching.








Moving on.....I've been reading this whole thread and I do have to chuckle when I see the selective use (or lack of) of "sound science" in this petition drive and then look at APR's. Both have something to do with hunting in Michigan. All of a sudden the "concerned sportsmen" want sound science to manage wildlife and making policy decisions???? What about the demand for "sound science" behind statewide APR's? Many other state F&G and DNR Depts already studied it, tried it, studied the results, said it didn't have the desired effect and got rid of them. Now some in Michigan still want more APR rules implemented despite the "sound science" already performed in other states??? Sorry....I'm smelling a bit of hypocrisy going on here. 




WRT to this petition....I'd sign it as I do support the use of proven, sound science in wildlife management**. I do not support social desire science, emotional desire science or outdoor television science. 




**Unless I missed something, has anyone pushing this petition took into account the timing of the petition drive and all of the Michigan residents who are snowbirds and out of state till the late spring/early summer? I'm in Florida till April. No doubt many other prospective signers are out of state too and may not be able to sign up. The timing of this petition could loose alot of prospective signatures. Just a thought to chew on.....


----------



## kzoofisher

Ray and swampbuck,

Which of these "special interest groups" do you find so objectionable? 
Michigan Bear Hunters Association
Michigan Hunting Dog Federation
Michigan Trappers and Predator Callers Association
Michigan United Conservation Clubs
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
Michigan chapters of Safari Club International
U.P. Whitetails, Inc. of Marquette County
Upper Peninsula Sportsmens Alliance

These are the people who put together the petition and the proposed law, everyone who has signed on afterward is just lending weight to the effort.

Also, aren't you both members of the GLFSA, a "special interest group" which has a prominent member on one of the DNR's citizen advisory committees? It would appear that you have been unsuccessful using your influence to get things your way so now you prefer to burn the whole house down rather than live in it if you can't be boss. That seems less like a principled stand and more like cutting off your nose to spite your face. The DNR and NRC are far more likely to be responsive to hunters and anglers than the general voting public is, if I have to pick between those groups as to who will make the rules I'll side with he DNR and NRC. Every time.


----------



## justlurking

Sign that? Not a chance!

I would rather reserve my voice with a public vote on game rules rather than the push that's going on right now for mandatory antler point restrictions by the special interest groups that are in bed with the NRC & DNR.
With the initiative you are trying to push, the use of bait for hunting deer will be gone also.

I would rather keep my right to have a voice in the rules for the our natural resources.

People would be nuts to give up their right to be able to have a voice.


----------



## Ranger Ray

kzoofisher said:


> Ray and swampbuck,
> 
> Which of these "special interest groups" do you find so objectionable?
> Michigan Bear Hunters Association
> Michigan Hunting Dog Federation
> Michigan Trappers and Predator Callers Association
> Michigan United Conservation Clubs
> Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
> Michigan chapters of Safari Club International
> U.P. Whitetails, Inc. of Marquette County
> Upper Peninsula Sportsmen&#8217;s Alliance
> 
> These are the people who put together the petition and the proposed law, everyone who has signed on afterward is just lending weight to the effort.
> 
> Also, aren't you both members of the GLFSA, a "special interest group" which has a prominent member on one of the DNR's citizen advisory committees? It would appear that you have been unsuccessful using your influence to get things your way so now you prefer to burn the whole house down rather than live in it if you can't be boss. That seems less like a principled stand and more like cutting off your nose to spite your face. The DNR and NRC are far more likely to be responsive to hunters and anglers than the general voting public is, if I have to pick between those groups as to who will make the rules I'll side with he DNR and NRC. Every time.


You are entitled to your assumption, but like usual when you assume, well you know the saying.

Weren't you the one that defended the position of the HSUS sitting on social game management panels in Wisconsin? Didn't you defend the Sierra Club, an anti trapping organization, sitting on the Cold Water committee? You do know they are also against wolf hunting right? Are these groups and the people in them responsive to hunters and anglers? Funny how you have no problem with people that are not responsive to hunters and fishermen when they benefit your agenda and ideology. Appears you talk out both sides of your mouth.


----------



## Whitetail Whisperer

justlurking said:


> Sign that? Not a chance!
> 
> I would rather reserve my voice with a public vote on game rules rather than the push that's going on right now for mandatory antler point restrictions by the special interest groups that are in bed with the NRC & DNR.
> With the initiative you are trying to push, the use of bait for hunting deer will be gone also.
> 
> I would rather keep my right to have a voice in the rules for the our natural resources.
> 
> People would be nuts to give up their right to be able to have a voice.


Your embarrassing yourself again!


----------



## miruss

kzoofisher said:


> Ray and swampbuck,
> 
> Which of these "special interest groups" do you find so objectionable?
> Michigan Bear Hunters Association
> Michigan Hunting Dog Federation
> Michigan Trappers and Predator Callers Association
> Michigan United Conservation Clubs
> Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
> Michigan chapters of Safari Club International
> U.P. Whitetails, Inc. of Marquette County
> Upper Peninsula Sportsmens Alliance
> 
> These are the people who put together the petition and the proposed law, everyone who has signed on afterward is just lending weight to the effort.
> 
> Also, aren't you both members of the GLFSA, a "special interest group" which has a prominent member on one of the DNR's citizen advisory committees? It would appear that you have been unsuccessful using your influence to get things your way so now you prefer to burn the whole house down rather than live in it if you can't be boss. That seems less like a principled stand and more like cutting off your nose to spite your face. The DNR and NRC are far more likely to be responsive to hunters and anglers than the general voting public is, if I have to pick between those groups as to who will make the rules I'll side with he DNR and NRC. Every time.


It's not about those groups it's about the DNR & the NRC They have both been proven they can't be trusted by the way they sway with the wind. don't know how many times they have to sh#t on you before you realize that they stink no way in hell will i vote to give them more power


----------



## poz

QDMAMAN said:


> Hey swampy, If the LPDMi takes up the cause of limiting antlerless archery take in below goal areas like Roscommon County, would you be in favor?


If the DNR / NRC are managing using sound science. There wouldn't need a group to take up the cause. They would already be addressing it.


----------



## WAUB-MUKWA

whitetail whisperer said:


> your embarrassing yourself again!


x 2


----------



## justlurking

People would be crazy to give up their ability to have a voice by signing this petition.


----------



## FREEPOP

justlurking said:


> People would be crazy to give up their ability to have a voice by signing this petition.


You obviously don't remember the dove hunt.


----------



## justlurking

FREEPOP said:


> You obviously don't remember the dove hunt.


Do you really remember?
We were inundated in the media, just ******* overwhelmed.
I do not recall seeing even one advertisement for a useful reason having a hunt for doves, never heard anything of doves being edible (the early European Americans even built dove coops to harvest the young doves for food)
Why don't you put your effort into fighting the fight instead of trying to silence my voice.


----------



## AntiHuntersLoveMe

justlurking said:


> Do you really remember?
> We were inundated in the media, just ******* overwhelmed.
> I do not recall seeing even one advertisement for a useful reason having a hunt for doves, never heard anything of doves being edible (the early European Americans even built dove coops to harvest the young doves for food)
> Why don't you put your effort into fighting the fight instead of trying to silence my voice.


Your level of education (or lack there of) becomes more apparent every time you post!
You sir are an embarrassment to the sportsman community.


----------



## justlurking

Sooooo I'm guessing that you really don't remember the dove hunting debate then huh?


----------



## hitechman

justlurking said:


> People would be crazy to give up their ability to have a voice by signing this petition.


That confirms it for me....my wife also calls me crazy!


----------



## FREEPOP

justlurking said:


> Do you really remember?
> We were inundated in the media, just ******* overwhelmed.
> I do not recall seeing even one advertisement for a useful reason having a hunt for doves, never heard anything of doves being edible (the early European Americans even built dove coops to harvest the young doves for food)
> Why don't you put your effort into fighting the fight instead of trying to silence my voice.


...and who spent all the money, the antis, because they have it to burn. 
Your voice becomes less effective every time you use it.
How many adds to protect your hunting are you going to buy?


----------



## Jager Pro

Whitetail Whisperer said:


> Your embarrassing yourself again!


I don't think he cares anymore. 

Anyone wanna take bets on how many times he'll say "if you guys pass APRs I'll most likely be done because that's the only thing I hunt, and if baiting is banned I'll be done for sure. You guys are trying to take away my hunting!" Before this thread is locked?


----------



## kzoofisher

Ray,

Been a while since we chatted, good to see you haven't changed your posting style; get asked a tough question and you change the subject. Would you care to go back and answer my question about the "special interests", honestly if you can?

As for my comments on the Wisconsin situation you left a whole lot out. In that thread you were complaining that members of the HSUS got elected to the Wisconsin Conservation Congress. Since those are county wide public elections, open to any voter, I have no problem with everyone having a chance to run and get elected. Wisconsin has been doing it that way for decades, maybe that's part of the reason they have double the participation rates in hunting and fishing that we do. I think that mandating ideological tests before allowing a person to run for public office is a terrible idea. Public elections are just that, public, and very different from appointments to non-binding committees.

Which brings us to the Sierra Club. Yes they sit on the Cold Water Committee and why shouldn't they? The SC has done a lot for water quality and trout conservation and has absolutely no problem with fishing. Do they have a problem with trapping? You bet, which is why they shouldn't be appointed to a trapping committee. I said that then and I say it again now. I don't know how committed to trout any of the people are on the trapping committee are and I don't care because it doesn't matter. It's a _trapping committee._ If you really want to have an argument about the place of social considerations in wildlife policy then start a new thread like Rooster suggested. In the meanwhile can you please tell us what your beef is with the groups listed previously and why we shouldn't trust the law they have proposed?


----------



## Ranger Ray

kzoofisher said:


> Ray,
> 
> Been a while since we chatted, good to see you haven't changed your posting style; get asked a tough question and you change the subject. Would you care to go back and answer my question about the "special interests", honestly if you can?


Tough question? You flatter yourself. It was a dumb question, hence the reason I didn't answer. I see you have gotten to your typical innuendos right off the bat. 



kzoofisher said:


> As for my comments on the Wisconsin situation you left a whole lot out. In that thread you were complaining that members of the HSUS got elected to the Wisconsin Conservation Congress. Since those are county wide public elections, open to any voter, I have no problem with everyone having a chance to run and get elected. Wisconsin has been doing it that way for decades, maybe that's part of the reason they have double the participation rates in hunting and fishing that we do. I think that mandating ideological tests before allowing a person to run for public office is a terrible idea. Public elections are just that, public, and very different from appointments to non-binding committees.





kzoo said:


> The DNR and NRC are far more likely to be responsive to hunters and anglers than the general voting public is, if I have to pick between those groups as to who will make the rules I'll side with he DNR and NRC. Every time.


So you were for public elections deciding game management before you were against it? Wait! I thought the reason for Wisconsin probably having more participation in outdoor sports was public participation in game management rules? Now your stating the DNR and NRC is who you would side for over the 
public. 



kzoo said:


> If you really want to have an argument about the place of social considerations in wildlife policy then start a new thread like Rooster suggested.


Gee a couple posts in here and you are making demands of me. Who died and made you boss. 


kzoo said:


> In the meanwhile can you please tell us what your beef is with the groups listed previously and why we shouldn't trust the law they have proposed?


Are you already speaking for the us? You mean tell you? I have already explained it to the us. Take your you and figure it out.


----------



## bioactive

swampbuck said:


> At this point I would be opposed to anything with a special interest group involved.


----------



## Duckiller

People that enjoy the outdoors are a bunch of special interest groups. Hunters ,Deer, bear, waterfowl, pheasants, grouse, rabbits Trappers , assorted fishermen. Which ones are you against?


----------



## justlurking

Duckiller said:


> People that enjoy the outdoors are a bunch of special interest groups. Hunters ,Deer, bear, waterfowl, pheasants, grouse, rabbits Trappers , assorted fishermen. Which ones are you against?


Me personally, the ones that are in bed with the NRC / DNR and and are are trying to force their agendas onto me with the only goal to put a head on their wall and or see more deer in their food plots.

You won't get my signature or vote.


----------



## AntiHuntersLoveMe

justlurking said:


> Me personally, the ones that are in bed with the NRC / DNR and and are are trying to force their agendas onto me with the only goal to put a head on their wall and or see more deer in their food plots.
> 
> You won't get my signature or vote.


What part of THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH APR'S don't you understand?
Do everyone a favor and...


----------



## justlurking

FREEPOP said:


> ...and who spent all the money, the antis, because they have it to burn.
> Your voice becomes less effective every time you use it.
> How many adds to protect your hunting are you going to buy?



You've been shouting at the moon that the game rules should be left up to the wildlife personnel, it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that one well constructed add by one of these wildlife gurus and placed in selected media areas explaining the need for wolf population control would beat out any ten adds by HSUS that they are just wild doggies and leave them alone.
Or you could go the same route as the dove issue where HSUS was the only one doing any talking, see where that gets you.
If you keep doing the same thing, you will always get the same results.


You will not get my signature or vote.
I choose to keep my voice.


----------



## justlurking

AntiHuntersLoveMe said:


> What part of THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH APR'S don't you understand?
> Do everyone a favor and...



What part of this petition don't YOU understand takes away your voice and the only ones left whispering in the NRCs ears are the special interest groups.
And one of these groups are the ones who are trying to take opportunity away from me and others just so they may have a better chance to put a head on their wall.
Do yourself a favor and think about the end result. Maybe not this year, or next year but what could happen when you no longer have a voice.


----------



## kzoofisher

> Is it the same special interests and the supporters of them that are seeking to change wildlife laws?


You asked the question. I provided the list and asked which ones you objected to. You're right, it isn't that tough but you still haven't answered. Here's the list again to refresh you memory: Michigan Bear Hunters Association, Michigan Hunting Dog Federation, Michigan Trappers and Predator Callers Association, Michigan United Conservation Clubs, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Michigan chapters of Safari Club International, U.P. Whitetails, Inc. of Marquette County, Upper Peninsula Sportsmens Alliance.


As for Wisconsin and the Conservation Congress; that's a publicly elected council, they don't make the rules and the scientists at the DNR have the final say. The Citizens Advisory Committees in Michigan are similar, they have an opinion but no power to make rules. As I'm sure you've noticed in following them, their recommendations are not always followed. A referendum becomes law without input from the scientists and is very hard to overturn. Do you see the difference? One is good policy, the other is bad policy.


----------



## WAUB-MUKWA

justlurking said:


> Sign that? Not a chance!
> 
> I would rather reserve my voice with a public vote on game rules rather than the push that's going on right now for mandatory antler point restrictions by the special interest groups that are in bed with the NRC & DNR.
> With the initiative you are trying to push, the use of bait for hunting deer will be gone also.
> 
> I would rather keep my right to have a voice in the rules for the our natural resources.
> 
> People would be nuts to give up their right to be able to have a voice.


If you need to hunt over bait maybe you should give up hunting all together. Its obvious you aren't a hunter or have the want or need to support anything else that's involved with hunting, just your selfish outlook? You think 9 million people are going to let you bait if they have a vote on it? Good luck with that.


----------



## FREEPOP

justlurking said:


> What part of this petition don't YOU understand takes away your voice and the only ones left whispering in the NRCs ears are the special interest groups.
> And one of these groups are the ones who are trying to take opportunity away from me and others just so they may have a better chance to put a head on their wall.
> Do yourself a favor and think about the end result. Maybe not this year, or next year but what could happen when you no longer have a voice.


I only wish your decision was an informed one. You have convinced me that you will not realize the full gravity of the situation and/or what course of action to pursue, until it is too late.


----------



## Rooster Cogburn

Even though I started this thread, I do find myself in agreement with opinions expressed about incidents where some in the NRC & DNR have shown favoritism to special interests. I would like to see this issue fully debated and specific details exposed. I have some to contribute. Please start a seperate thread where we can focus on it and end the controversy on this thread.

Regarding why I started this thread.....I wanted to make folks aware of the petition drive aimed at ending out of state big money organizations like HSUS from exploiting Michigan's ballot initiative process. I also want to see the petition drive to be successful so the legislature will pass a law requiring the NRC to manage using sound science. 

If we end up with a state law requiring sound science management by the NRC....then the next time we catch either the DNR, or NRC backsliding and favoring special interests we can pursue accountability through our state representatives and the governor's office. Unfortunately, Proposal G (Public Act 377 of 1996) did not go far enough.
This proposed legislation does.


----------



## bioactive

justlurking said:


> What part of this petition don't YOU understand takes away your voice and the only ones left whispering in the NRCs ears are the special interest groups.
> And one of these groups are the ones who are trying to take opportunity away from me and others just so they may have a better chance to put a head on their wall.
> Do yourself a favor and think about the end result. Maybe not this year, or next year but what could happen when you no longer have a voice.


This is kind of hard for me to follow.

You are concerned about having your "voice" taken away...

But you are angry about the DNR listening to hunters and soliciting their input in an APR survey.


----------



## bioactive

Rooster Cogburn said:


> Even though I started this thread, I do find myself in agreement with opinions expressed about incidents where some in the NRC & DNR have shown favoritism to special interests. I would like to see this issue fully debated and specific details exposed. I have some to contribute. Please start a seperate thread where we can focus on it and end the controversy on this thread.


So let's be clear. Are you saying you do not want the DNR and NRC to be sensitive to hunter's desires and to solicit hunter's opinions?

Which of these special interest groups are you opposed to?

Michigan Bear Hunters Association
Michigan Hunting Dog Federation
Michigan Trappers and Predator Callers Association
Michigan United Conservation Clubs
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
Michigan chapters of Safari Club International
U.P. Whitetails, Inc. of Marquette County
Upper Peninsula Sportsmens Alliance
Quality Deer Management Association
Michigan United Conservation Clubs


----------



## justlurking

FREEPOP said:


> I only wish your decision was an informed one. You have convinced me that you will not realize the full gravity of the situation and/or what course of action to pursue, until it is too late.


 
Actually I do understand that this petition would cease my right to vote and have a voice on our natural resources.



FREEPOP said:


> ...and who spent all the money, the antis, because they have it to burn.
> Your voice becomes less effective every time you use it.
> How many adds to protect your hunting are you going to buy?


 
You all running scared of the HSUS propaganda machine and rather than fighting this fight you're trying to pass an initiative that will take away your right to vote and have a voice on our natural resources.

What you don't have is organization and allegiance.

Who will pay for the fight against HSUS? Everybody.
There are enough outdoor cable or television shows that the adds needed could be produced for next to nothing.

Here is a list I copied from earlier in this thread to start;
Kirk Gibson - Former Detroit Tiger and current Arizona Diamondbacks Manager
Jimmy Gretzinger - Host of Michigan Out-of-Doors TV
Mike Averys Outdoor Magazine
Wild Michigan  Outdoors Radio Show w/ Duran Martinez
U.P. Trails & Tales Radio w/ Tim Kobasic
Bob Garner  former host of Michigan Out-of-Doors TV and member of the Michigan Conservation Hall of Fame
Michigan Outdoor News
WoodsN'Water News
Michigan OutofDoors Magazine
Haggards Plumbing and Heating
State Sen. Tom Casperson (R  Escanaba)
State Rep. Ed McBroom (R  Vulcan)
State Rep. Scott Dianda (D  Calumet)
James A. Lorenson  President of Gogebic Community College  Ironwood, MI
Michigan United Conservation Clubs
U.P. Bear Houndsmen
Upper Peninsula Sportsmens Alliance
Michigan chapters of Safari Club International
Michigan Trappers and Predator Callers Association
Michigan Hunting Dog Federation
U.P. Whitetails, Inc.
Michigan Bear Hunters Association
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
U.P. Whitetails, Inc. of Marquette :
Michigan Steelhead and Salmon Fishermens Association
Michigan Gun Owners
Michigan Bow Hunters Association
Great Lakes Council  Federation of Fly Fishers
National Wild Turkey Federation
Quality Deer Management Association  Michigan Advisory Council
Trapperman Trapping and Nuisance Control
Saginaw Field & Stream Conservation Club
Negaunee Rod & Gun Club
Frankenmuth Conservation Club
North Macomb Sportsmens Club
North Oakland Sportsmens Club
Wilderness Sports, Ispheming, MI
Iron Mountain Power Sports
Marquette Power Sports
Houghton Power Sports
Midway Rentals & Sales, Marquette, MI
Balsley Lure Company
Gary L. Towns, Retired DNR Lake Erie Management Unit Supervisor
Bait Plus LLC, Negaunee, MI
Pretty Hunter
Mark Romanack, host of Fishing 411
Detroit Buck Club
Ducks & Bucks Cartblinds
MSU Fishing Club
Ludington Charter Boat Association
Northeast Michigan Branch of Quality Deer Management Association

Also
You
Me
The NRA
North American Fisherman
North American Whitetail
QDMA
Sporting good retailers
Sporting good manufactures
Etc etc etc...

There need to be an organization and alliance from everybody who has a stake in the game.
And not just in Michigan but a national lobbying allegiance. (I'm sure that other states have this same problem). 
Everybody, You, Me, The people who make the video programs, Internet sportsman websites, Retailers, Manufacturers, even city's and towns who rely on sportsman's dollars... 

How do unions work? If a retailer doesn't want to support you (Example; Cabelas, or Bass Pro Shop) you don't shop in their stores, or you don't buy their products, or watch their television shows, food plot seed etc etc etc...

You have billions and billions of dollars but you don't have any organization and alliance.
Shoot this could be somebody's career putting this together and leading this.

Fight the fight that looming.

Just don't try and take away my right to vote on and have a voice regarding our natural resources. 

I will not sign that petition and if my deer hunting ends because of the greed of some you, you will lose my support.


----------



## FREEPOP

justlurking said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> Actually I do understand that this petition would cease my right to vote and have a voice on our natural resources.
> 
> 
> 
> You all running scared of the HSUS propaganda machine and rather than fighting this fight you're trying to pass an initiative that will take away your right to vote and have a voice on our natural resources.
> 
> What you don't have is organization and allegiance.
> 
> Who will pay for the fight against HSUS? Everybody.
> There are enough outdoor cable or television shows that the adds needed could be produced for next to nothing.
> 
> Here is a list I copied from earlier in this thread to start;
> Kirk Gibson - Former Detroit Tiger and current Arizona Diamondbacks Manager
> Jimmy Gretzinger - Host of Michigan Out-of-Doors TV
> Mike Averys Outdoor Magazine
> Wild Michigan  Outdoors Radio Show w/ Duran Martinez
> U.P. Trails & Tales Radio w/ Tim Kobasic
> Bob Garner  former host of Michigan Out-of-Doors TV and member of the Michigan Conservation Hall of Fame
> Michigan Outdoor News
> WoodsN'Water News
> Michigan OutofDoors Magazine
> Haggards Plumbing and Heating
> State Sen. Tom Casperson (R  Escanaba)
> State Rep. Ed McBroom (R  Vulcan)
> State Rep. Scott Dianda (D  Calumet)
> James A. Lorenson  President of Gogebic Community College  Ironwood, MI
> Michigan United Conservation Clubs
> U.P. Bear Houndsmen
> Upper Peninsula Sportsmens Alliance
> Michigan chapters of Safari Club International
> Michigan Trappers and Predator Callers Association
> Michigan Hunting Dog Federation
> U.P. Whitetails, Inc.
> Michigan Bear Hunters Association
> Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
> U.P. Whitetails, Inc. of Marquette :
> Michigan Steelhead and Salmon Fishermens Association
> Michigan Gun Owners
> Michigan Bow Hunters Association
> Great Lakes Council  Federation of Fly Fishers
> National Wild Turkey Federation
> Quality Deer Management Association  Michigan Advisory Council
> Trapperman Trapping and Nuisance Control
> Saginaw Field & Stream Conservation Club
> Negaunee Rod & Gun Club
> Frankenmuth Conservation Club
> North Macomb Sportsmens Club
> North Oakland Sportsmens Club
> Wilderness Sports, Ispheming, MI
> Iron Mountain Power Sports
> Marquette Power Sports
> Houghton Power Sports
> Midway Rentals & Sales, Marquette, MI
> Balsley Lure Company
> Gary L. Towns, Retired DNR Lake Erie Management Unit Supervisor
> Bait Plus LLC, Negaunee, MI
> Pretty Hunter
> Mark Romanack, host of Fishing 411
> Detroit Buck Club
> Ducks & Bucks Cartblinds
> MSU Fishing Club
> Ludington Charter Boat Association
> Northeast Michigan Branch of Quality Deer Management Association
> 
> Also
> You
> Me
> The NRA
> North American Fisherman
> North American Whitetail
> QDMA
> Sporting good retailers
> Sporting good manufactures
> Etc etc etc...
> 
> There need to be an organization and alliance from everybody who has a stake in the game.
> And not just in Michigan but a national lobbying allegiance. (I'm sure that other states have this same problem).
> Everybody, You, Me, The people who make the video programs, Internet sportsman websites, Retailers, Manufacturers, even city's and towns who rely on sportsman's dollars...
> 
> How do unions work? If a retailer doesn't want to support you (Example; Cabelas, or Bass Pro Shop) you don't shop in their stores, or you don't buy their products, or watch their television shows, food plot seed etc etc etc...
> 
> You have billions and billions of dollars but you don't have any organization and alliance.
> Shoot this could be somebody's career putting this together and leading this.
> 
> Fight the fight that looming.
> 
> Just don't try and take away my right to vote on and have a voice regarding our natural resources.
> 
> I will not sign that petition and if my deer hunting ends because of the greed of some you, you will lose my support.





Worked real well for the dove issue didn't it?

What will be different this time?

Who will unite and lead us to this grand victory? 

You?

Some very important questions and there is not much time to prepare because if the petition fails, it'll be on the ballot in November. The anti idiots with money flying out of their butts will run a multi-million dollar ad campaign and are ready to do so at the drop of a hat. 
On the other hand, you have a fictitious group, with no leader/leadership, no funds, no plan and no ambition, except to sit here and complain about people that are actually doing something, trying to preserve and protect our hunting freedom. Yes freedom, I am in no way shape and form, part of LPDMI! My only intention is to protect what freedoms we have, not to take any away. 

You may think this is the wrong action to take to solve this situation but at least I am doing something and not sitting on my hands


----------



## CHASINEYES

bioactive said:


> This is kind of hard for me to follow.
> 
> You are concerned about having your "voice" has been taken away...
> 
> But you are angry about the DNR listening to special interest group LPDMI and soliciting their input in an APR survey.


Let me help you. I think this is his message. Lol


----------



## CHASINEYES

Humor aside, do the petitions come with a flyer or literature for the signer to read?


----------



## EdB

> Actually I do understand that this petition would cease my right to vote and have a voice on our natural resources


Tell me how many times you got to cast your vote for setting hunting regulations?


----------



## FREEPOP

CHASINEYES said:


> Humor aside, do the petitions come with a flyer or literature for the signer to read?


Yes, and the full text of the legislative proposal is included on each petition.


----------



## Rooster Cogburn

Bio,

Thanks for bringing that up. I should have been more specific. I am 100% in support of sportsmen having a voice and having input with both the NRC and the DNR. Its vital that we do have a voice....and we should never be dictated to by either. I want to be able to go to the DNR and NRC with documented facts and be heard. And, if I can prove my case and show the sound science behind it....I don't want to be blown off by some authority in the DNR or NRC that cannot show their decision is based on sound science. 

And, above all of this.....there is nothing democratic about HSUS coming here, using hired consultants to run around in the big metropolitan areas of the state, and lying to uninformed folks to get their signatures on petitions to carry out their anti hunting agenda. They have been here 3 times exploiting out ballot initiative process. This petition drive is the one way we have to end out of state anti hunting efforts from preying on us.


----------



## bioactive

justlurking said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> Actually I do understand that this petition would cease my right to vote and have a voice on our natural resources.
> 
> 
> 
> You all running scared of the HSUS propaganda machine and rather than fighting this fight you're trying to pass an initiative that will take away your right to vote and have a voice on our natural resources.




Wow. Right now, as we speak, hunters have a direct voice with the DNR. That seems to be what you are angry about. They listen to us now. 

If you get 100% of hunters in Michigan to band together to vote with you, well, that is less than 10% of the population.

According to some estimates, there are almost as many vegetarians in Michigan as there are hunters.

There are over 11 million members of the HSUS nationwide. 

Right now the DNR/NRC has a huge bias towards listening to hunters and their desires regarding game laws rather than the other 90% of the population. But you don't like them to be influenced by hunters, right?

You prefer, rather than having a direct line with the DNR, to have to fight every battle with every voter in the state.

How much will your PR campaign cost?


----------



## bioactive

Rooster Cogburn said:


> Bio,
> 
> Thanks for bringing that up. I should have been more specific. I am 100% in support of sportsmen having a voice and having input with both the NRC and the DNR. Its vital that we do have a voice....and we should never be dictated to by either. I want to be able to go to the DNR and NRC with documented facts and be heard. And, if I can prove my case and show the sound science behind it....I don't want to be blown off by some authority in the DNR or NRC that cannot show their decision is based on sound science.
> 
> And, above all of this.....there is nothing democratic about HSUS coming here, using hired consultants to run around in the big metropolitan areas of the state, and lying to uninformed folks to get their signatures on petitions to carry out their anti hunting agenda. They have been here 3 times exploiting out ballot initiative process. This petition drive is the one way we have to end out of state anti hunting efforts from preying on us.


Thanks Rooster. I understand.


----------



## FREEPOP

Interesting!! 

LANSING The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS)-financed front group Keep Michigan Wolves Protected (KMWP) is suing the State of Michigan to allow out-of-state petition gatherers as the anti-hunting group tries to repeal a law that provides free hunting and fishing licences for active military members and authorizes the bipartisan Natural Resources Commission (NRC) to designate game species and issue fisheries orders using sound science. 

"The anti-hunters wouldn't be suing the state to allow out-of-state circulators if they had the support of Michigan citizens," said Drew YoungeDyke, spokesman for Citizens for Professional Wildlife Management (CPWM), which is circulating a competing petition for a citizen-initiated law that would protect free military licenses, the NRC's ability to name game species and issue fisheries orders, and establish a $1 million rapid response fund to fight Asian carp and other aquatic invasive species.

Keep Michigan Wolves Protected has received over $800,000 from the Humane Society of the United States since November. Their current referendum drive to repeal Public Act 21 of 2013 is their second referendum in an attempt to ban wolf hunting, even though the Michigan Wolf Management Plan allows for hunting to address wolf-human conflicts, and Michigan's professional biologists structured a limited hunt that targeted wolves from problem packs. Their lawsuit alleges that Michigan's law violates federal law because it prevents a Florida woman from being paid to circulate petitions in Michigan. Under current law, only Michigan residents may circulate petitions, paid or unpaid. 

"Why should people from Florida or Washington, D.C. be able to overrule Michigan's professional biologists and force their radical agenda on Michigan citizens, especially those of us in the U.P. who actually live around wolves, who actually lose pets, hunting dogs and cattle to them, and who have them running through our backyards and circling our treestands?" said Tony Demboski, president of the Upper Peninsula Sportmens's Alliance. 

"Regardless of the outcome of the lawsuit, Michigan citizens support making fish and wildlife management decisions with sound science, not emotional propaganda," said Erin McDonough, executive director of Michigan United Conservation Clubs. "This is just another attempt by radical out-of-state animal rights activists to force their agenda on the people of Michigan. It's obvious that they don't respect Michigan's laws, citizens or wildlife."

Citizens for Professional Wildlife Management is a coalition of Michigan-based conservation, hunting, fishing and trapping organizations. They need to collect over 258,000 valid signatures by the end of May to place their citizen initiative, called the Scientific Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, before the state legislature, which will have 40 days to vote on the initiated law. Michigan citizens who want to collect signatures for the Scientific Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act can request petitions by emailing [email protected].


----------



## miruss

FREEPOP said:


> Interesting!!
> 
> LANSING The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS)-financed front group Keep Michigan Wolves Protected (KMWP) is suing the State of Michigan to allow out-of-state petition gatherers as the anti-hunting group tries to repeal a law that provides free hunting and fishing licences for active military members and authorizes the bipartisan Natural Resources Commission (NRC) to designate game species and issue fisheries orders using sound science.
> 
> "The anti-hunters wouldn't be suing the state to allow out-of-state circulators if they had the support of Michigan citizens," said Drew YoungeDyke, spokesman for Citizens for Professional Wildlife Management (CPWM), which is circulating a competing petition for a citizen-initiated law that would protect free military licenses, the NRC's ability to name game species and issue fisheries orders, and establish a $1 million rapid response fund to fight Asian carp and other aquatic invasive species.
> 
> Keep Michigan Wolves Protected has received over $800,000 from the Humane Society of the United States since November. Their current referendum drive to repeal Public Act 21 of 2013 is their second referendum in an attempt to ban wolf hunting, even though the Michigan Wolf Management Plan allows for hunting to address wolf-human conflicts, and Michigan's professional biologists structured a limited hunt that targeted wolves from problem packs. Their lawsuit alleges that Michigan's law violates federal law because it prevents a Florida woman from being paid to circulate petitions in Michigan. Under current law, only Michigan residents may circulate petitions, paid or unpaid.
> 
> "Why should people from Florida or Washington, D.C. be able to overrule Michigan's professional biologists and force their radical agenda on Michigan citizens, especially those of us in the U.P. who actually live around wolves, who actually lose pets, hunting dogs and cattle to them, and who have them running through our backyards and circling our treestands?" said Tony Demboski, president of the Upper Peninsula Sportmens's Alliance.
> 
> "Regardless of the outcome of the lawsuit, Michigan citizens support making fish and wildlife management decisions with sound science, not emotional propaganda," said Erin McDonough, executive director of Michigan United Conservation Clubs. "This is just another attempt by radical out-of-state animal rights activists to force their agenda on the people of Michigan. It's obvious that they don't respect Michigan's laws, citizens or wildlife."
> 
> Citizens for Professional Wildlife Management is a coalition of Michigan-based conservation, hunting, fishing and trapping organizations. They need to collect over 258,000 valid signatures by the end of May to place their citizen initiative, called the Scientific Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, before the state legislature, which will have 40 days to vote on the initiated law. Michigan citizens who want to collect signatures for the Scientific Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act can request petitions by emailing [email protected].[/QUOTE
> 
> According to BIO and his cheer leading follower's if the people spend there money here in Michigan they should have a vote. If they come to Michigan they should have a vote after all it's the Will of the Majority.


----------



## swampbuck

FREEPOP said:


> "Regardless of the outcome of the lawsuit, Michigan citizens support making fish and wildlife management decisions with sound science, not emotional propaganda,"


Is that a new position for the MUCC or just more rhetoric. It's unfortunate they have never followed that.


----------



## FREEPOP

swampbuck said:


> Is that a new position for the MUCC or just more rhetoric. It's unfortunate they have never followed that.


My beliefs' are not 1005 aligned with MUCC or the NRA but they are a heck of a lot closer than PETA, HSUS and all anti-gun organizations.


----------



## bioactive

miruss said:


> FREEPOP said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting!!
> 
> 
> According to BIO and his cheer leading follower's if the people spend there money here in Michigan they should have a vote. If they come to Michigan they should have a vote after all it's the Will of the Majority.
> 
> 
> 
> Hunters POP, hunters, not leftist nut jobs.
> 
> If you can't tell the difference I am sorry for that.
Click to expand...


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## FREEPOP

bioactive said:


> Hunters POP, hunters, not leftist nut jobs.
> 
> If you can't tell the difference I am sorry for that.


Look you ignorant carbon peddler, you better scan that post and mine again to see who said what


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## billmitch

FREEPOP said:


> Look you ignorant carbon peddler, you better scan that post and mine again to see who said what


I was thinking the same thing Pop...:lol:


----------



## AntiHuntersLoveMe

FREEPOP said:


> Look you ignorant carbon peddler, you better scan that post and mine again to see who said what


Lol  Game-set-match


----------



## Jager Pro

bioactive said:


> Wow. Right now, as we speak, hunters have a direct voice with the DNR. That seems to be what you are angry about. They listen to us now.
> 
> If you get 100% of hunters in Michigan to band together to vote with you, well, that is less than 10% of the population.
> 
> According to some estimates, there are almost as many vegetarians in Michigan as there are hunters.
> 
> There are over 11 million members of the HSUS nationwide.
> 
> Right now the DNR/NRC has a huge bias towards listening to hunters and their desires regarding game laws rather than the other 90% of the population. But you don't like them to be influenced by hunters, right?
> 
> You prefer, rather than having a direct line with the DNR, to have to fight every battle with every voter in the state.
> 
> How much will your PR campaign cost?


According to the Michigan hunter's safety work book only 5% of the population hunts, and about the same number of people are against hunting.


----------



## justlurking

Why did we loose the dove hunt fight?
Adds like this!!!




Show even one add that contradicted them.
Now they are going to come at us with wolves as wild doggies that need to be left alone.
Wouldn't just even one add by the wildlife biologist explaining the need for population control placed in select places condradict all their efforts?


----------



## FREEPOP

justlurking said:


> Wouldn't just even one add by the wildlife biologist explaining the need for population control placed in select places condradict all their efforts?


nope


----------



## Ranger Ray

We lost the dove fight because the democratic governor refused to sign the bill making them a game animal. She abdicated the state duty as trustee of our game, to a vote of the people.


----------



## justlurking

Are you saying that you have no faith in the wildlife biologist or that they are right and there shouldn't be a wolf hunt to begin with?


----------



## Jager Pro

justlurking said:


> Are you saying that you have no faith in the wildlife biologist or that they are right and there shouldn't be a wolf hunt to begin with?


Wait did you just say wolf? :yikes:

Did you guys see that?!?! He finally said wolf hunt instead of APRs!!! I honestly can't believe my eyes...


----------



## justlurking

What you are trying to do with this petition is close the door on me and others from having anymore say on our natural resources.
That's not going to fly with me!
You can't have my signature or my vote.


----------



## Jager Pro

justlurking said:


> What you are trying to do with this petition is close the door on me and others from having anymore say on our natural resources.
> That's not going to fly with me!
> You can't have my signature or my vote.


Are you an out of state member of the organization known as HSUS? If so then yes, yes I am trying to take your voice away. 

However if you're a Michigan resident then I respect your right to state your beliefs on the wolf hunt.


----------



## justlurking

Jager Pro said:


> Wait did you just say wolf? :yikes:
> 
> Did you guys see that?!?! He finally said wolf hunt instead of APRs!!! I honestly can't believe my eyes...


Oh yea
APRs
Lol


----------



## Rut-N-Strut

Ranger Ray said:


> We lost the dove fight because the democratic governor refused to sign the bill making them a game animal. She abdicated the state duty as trustee of our game, to a vote of the people.


I talked to the guy who is collecting sigs. from Sag. Co. and 6 surrounding counties. Mind you, we are a UAW plant. 

One Non-Hunter choose not to sign saying it was because it would be using the same tactic the Gov. used to pass Right to Work, which the UAW was against. 

I also asked what reasons, if any, for people not signing. He said it was mostly women and because they thought wolves should not be hunted.


----------



## Ranger Ray

Rut-N-Strut said:


> I talked to the guy who is collecting sigs. from Sag. Co. and 6 surrounding counties. Mind you, we are a UAW plant.
> 
> One Non-Hunter choose not to sign saying it was because it would be using the same tactic the Gov. used to pass Right to Work, which the UAW was against.
> 
> I also asked what reasons, if any, for people not signing. He said it was mostly women and because they thought wolves should not be hunted.


OK. Not sure what that has to do with what you quoted me on.


----------



## griffondog

justlurking said:


> What you are trying to do with this petition is close the door on me and others from having anymore say on our natural resources.
> That's not going to fly with me!
> You can't have my signature or my vote.


Flat out lie. The legislature will still have oversight that's what we elect them to do. I see the same old people at the NRC meetings every month. Your opinion carries as much weight as mine before the NRC.

Griff


----------



## Rut-N-Strut

Ranger Ray said:


> OK. Not sure what that has to do with what you quoted me on.


You're right. Just something about past and present Govs. is all. Sorry


----------



## Jager Pro

Bump. I reached out to HSUS on why they are trying to take my rights away. They immediately responded and wanted to know what I was talking about. I brought up the wolf hunting, military rights, and the HSUS threatening the Great Lakes... they never responded, that was several hours ago!


----------



## CHASINEYES

Jager Pro said:


> Bump. I reached out to HSUS on why they are trying to take my rights away. They immediately responded and wanted to know what I was talking about. I brought up the wolf hunting, military rights, and the HSUS threatening the Great Lakes... they never responded, that was several hours ago!


Good for you young man. You've done more to engage the enemy than most of us older hunters ever will. I mean it when I say, THAT'S AWESOME!!!. Lol


----------



## Jager Pro

CHASINEYES said:


> Good for you young man. You've done more to engage the enemy than most of us older hunters ever will. I mean it when I say, THAT'S AWESOME!!!. Lol


:lol: thanks. I've been battling it out with PETA supporters for the past couple weeks, this is the first time I've taken it to an actual organization.


----------



## FREEPOP

Jager Pro said:


> Bump. I reached out to HSUS on why they are trying to take my rights away. They immediately responded and wanted to know what I was talking about. I brought up the wolf hunting, military rights, and the HSUS threatening the Great Lakes... they never responded, that was several hours ago!


I've read enough of their literature to know, you'll only get a whole bunch of lies from them and nothing else.


----------



## Jager Pro

FREEPOP said:


> I've read enough of their literature to know, you'll only get a whole bunch of lies from them and nothing else.


They just ignored me. I asked them publicaly and they couldn't even give a second thought! 


You know it's really ironic that they claim to be supporting dogs (we know this isn't true) but are willing to let this happen:


----------



## oreodane

Jager Pro said:


> They just ignored me. I asked them publicaly and they couldn't even give a second thought!
> 
> 
> You know it's really ironic that they claim to be supporting dogs (we know this isn't true) but are willing to let this happen:


Excellent point Jager. More people need to see the effects of wolf attacks on dogs and read one of the stories that are out there, maybe they would change their opinion. Google "hunting dogs killed by wolves in Michigan". HSUS are hypocritical, but the average non-hunter would assume they benefit all animals. As stated by many before me, they have one goal, which is to take away our hunting privileges.

The petition is about the wolves, period. Those of us who live and hunt in the UP need a way to reduce wolf numbers, I've seen them feeding on deer in the shoulder of Marquette County Road 581. I've personally seen 6 separate wolves during 2013. I've had a pack of wolves running down a doe pass within 100 yards of my deer blind. If the numbers of wolves are truly what are publicized (around 650) I wouldn't expect to see any with the amount of territory they are spread out over. Our deer herd in the UP is being decimated. I'm not of the opinion that every wolf has to be killed, but that there has to be a way to manage their numbers. Sorry I got a little off topic but people who don't live here really can't imagine how bad the wolf problem really is. 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## FREEPOP

If it were up to the antis, dogs wouldn't hunt, they think it's cruel.


----------



## Jager Pro

FREEPOP said:


> If it were up to the antis, dogs wouldn't hunt, they think it's cruel.


And if it was up to PETA then there wouldn't be any pets.


----------



## Jager Pro

I know the more I bring this up the more obsessive I sound, but I just want to reiterate how anti-hunting the HSUS is. Upon looking at their website there is an option to see how humane your state is. Michigan received a 47% and is placed in the second best level out of 4. At first the issues that were being scored looked decent, mostly animal fighting topics and abuse. But then there's these:

Prohibits bear hunting
Prohibits bear trapping statewide Prohibits hound hunting of bears Prohibits hunting bears over bait Prohibits the trade in bear parts Prohibits cougar hunting2
Prohibits hound hunting of cougars Prohibits mourning dove hunting Prohibits wolf hunting3
Includes a partial or full ban on canned hunts, or shooting animals kept in enclosures Prohibits shooting animals remotely via the internet
Prohibits hunting on Sundays
Felony penalty for illegally hunting an endangered species
Regulates nuisance wildlife control operators
Bans the possession and sale of shark fins Prohibits fox penning
Member of the Interstate Wildlife Violator Compact
Requires the use of non-lead ammunition
Prohibits or seriously restricts the use of leghold traps
Prohibits the use of snares

An entire topic on hunting, if your state is prohibits these actions then it's more humane. In the eyes of the HSUS hunting is just as bad as dog fights and anal electrocution. Just goes to show what they think of us.


----------



## justlurking

And how big of a donation did you make?


----------



## Jager Pro

justlurking said:


> And how big of a donation did you make?


What's that supposed to mean?


----------



## FREEPOP

Jager Pro said:


> I know the more I bring this up the more obsessive I sound, but I just want to reiterate how anti-hunting the HSUS is. Upon looking at their website there is an option to see how humane your state is. Michigan received a 47% and is placed in the second best level out of 4. At first the issues that were being scored looked decent, mostly animal fighting topics and abuse. But then there's these:
> 
> Prohibits bear hunting
> Prohibits bear trapping statewide Prohibits hound hunting of bears Prohibits hunting bears over bait Prohibits the trade in bear parts Prohibits cougar hunting2
> Prohibits hound hunting of cougars Prohibits mourning dove hunting Prohibits wolf hunting3
> Includes a partial or full ban on canned hunts, or shooting animals kept in enclosures Prohibits shooting animals remotely via the internet
> Prohibits hunting on Sundays
> Felony penalty for illegally hunting an endangered species
> Regulates nuisance wildlife control operators
> Bans the possession and sale of shark fins Prohibits fox penning
> Member of the Interstate Wildlife Violator Compact
> Requires the use of non-lead ammunition
> Prohibits or seriously restricts the use of leghold traps
> Prohibits the use of snares
> 
> An entire topic on hunting, if your state is prohibits these actions then it's more humane. In the eyes of the HSUS hunting is just as bad as dog fights and anal electrocution. Just goes to show what they think of us.



...and there's your attack list. 
They can set a building on fire that causes hundreds of animal deaths but in their eyes it's justified.


----------



## Jager Pro

FREEPOP said:


> ...and there's your attack list.
> They can set a building on fire that causes hundreds of animal deaths but in their eyes it's justified.


What I am trying to figure out is how does your state become more humane if it doesn't allow hunting on Sunday? Obviously HSUS is just happy that you have one less day of hunting.


----------



## FREEPOP

...and there lies your problem. You are looking for logic, from illogical people.


----------



## Jager Pro

> As a practical matter, The HSUS actively seeks to eliminate the most inhumane and unfair sporthunting practices, such as the use of body-gripping traps, *baiting*, use of dogs, pigeon shoots, stocking of animals for shooting, and fee-hunting on enclosed properties.


Good job JustLurking! Maybe you should stop blaming other hunters for trying to take your style of hunting away when it's the HSUS that thinks you are one of the most inhumane people out there. They might not be trying to ban baiting right now, but you can be sure that if they win they'll be back for your baiting.


----------



## swampbuck

Jager Pro said:


> Good job JustLurking! Maybe you should stop blaming other hunters for trying to take your style of hunting away when it's the HSUS that thinks you are one of the most inhumane people out there. They might not be trying to ban baiting right now, but you can be sure that if they win they'll be back for your baiting.


That may be true about HSUS, that doesn't change the fact that other hunters ARE trying to take his style of hunting away.


----------



## Jager Pro

swampbuck said:


> That may be true about HSUS, that doesn't change the fact that other hunters ARE trying to take his style of hunting away.


Like the CPWM that he is against? Isn't 50/50 better than 100% failure?


----------



## justlurking

And tell me why I should care if last hunting season was my last season?


----------



## Jager Pro

justlurking said:


> And tell me why I should care if last hunting season was my last season?


You've been hunting for 44 years, I think that would be something you would care about. And if you dont care then why the he11 are you on this thread freaking out about the CPWM taking away your hunting rights (which they arent)? When you came across the thread you should have just said "Oh well its just hunting, its not anything important" but you didnt, you came on here and accused ppl of trying to take away your hunting rights. You threatened that it would be your last season, you appeared to be upset about that. Are you not, do you not care???


----------



## AntiHuntersLoveMe

Congratulations to Justlurking for becoming the newest member of the banned club!! I can't believe it took so long, that guy was a total anti!


----------



## 2 Kids And I Trap

Thank you all for supporting this very important fight. If everyone picks up and tells everyone you know about this issue we can get the signatures we need. Make sure everyone you know signs it, or at least knows about it. MY main goal in this fight is to make sure that we win, get more signatures then the Anti's. (Keep Michigan Wolves Protected) We need to send them home!!! Thanks again for your support!


----------



## WAUB-MUKWA

AntiHuntersLoveMe said:


> Congratulations to Justlurking for becoming the newest member of the banned club!! I can't believe it took so long, that guy was a total anti!


Now to do some house cleaning in the Sound off section.


----------



## Robert Holmes

justlurking said:


> And tell me why I should care if last hunting season was my last season?


It is not just about hunting. It is about fishing and trapping too. It is about your children and grandchildren. It is about the freedom and your rights that is the foundation of this country. As sportsmen and sportswomen we pay the DNR to manage wildlife within the state. Outside interests who pay nothing should not be allowed to come to the dance for free.


----------

