# Throwing a Clouser Minnow...



## Rahooty

I am new to fly tying and fishing, I have been practicing a lot with smaller fly's like dry, wet and nymph and have been doing well (with the casting that is)...

But I want to try and catch some Bass in the Huron River, I tied up some clouser minnows (used #2 and #1 hooks using medium led dumbell eys... but I am having a really hard time casting these... can someone give me some advice on how to get these things out of the water and airborn??? I think I need to tune my equipment and not sure how to set up...

I have two rods, both 9ft. one is a Scietific Angler 5/6 with SA "TEXTURED WF-6-F" and the other is a new Scott A4 7W, on this rod I first tried "RIO WF6F/I 235gr 1.5.2ips (I think my dealer said this is an intermediat sinking line), I had trouble getting the clouser out of the water for a good back cast, and dificulty keeping it from hitting the ground or water behind me...

I also have a new SA Mastery Textured Series "Titan Taper" WF-7-F that I just put onto the Scott A4 (7w) rod and going to head back out and try again...

Will these line/rod settup's work for the clouser? should I use a special leader with any of these lines? (fishing for Bass) or are these clousers just to big for this set up?

I just picked up some #8 streemer hooks and going to tye up some clousers with X-SMALL lead dumbell eyes and see if I have any better luck...

Anyone experianced with this, I could sure use some tuning and or 
Technique advise...
Thanks...


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## toto

Casting a sink tip line is a little harder than a regular fly line, at least in my opinion, but all I can say is practice. What I've found, at least for me, is a little more aggresive snap on the backcast to get it started, from there is not so bad. Just need to make real sure you aren't looping the line on your cast, can get pretty ugly if you don't make straight back casts. Keep at it, you'll find what works for you. Its sorta like a gold swing, it doesn't matter what it looks like, as long as the end result is what you want.


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## Boozer

My FAVORITE line for hucking Clouser Minnows is the Mastery Textured Saltwater Clear Tip Line with about 4' of 10 or 12 pound Maxima as a lead. This would work great for your A4 rod. I use it on my S4 sticks all the time.

http://buy.scientificanglers.com/li...tery-textured-series-saltwater-clear-tip.html

In the early Spring or late Fall, I may use the Mastery Wet Tip Type III sink tip line to get a little deeper.

I personally don't care much for a floating line and weighted streamers in moving water like a river. If you use the Titan Taper, a 9' Bass tapered leader ending in 12 pound tippet should work fine...

As far as getting it out of the water, you are gonna have to strip it in a lil farther if you are having issues pulling it out of the water to make your back-cast. You may also try stripping it in and then roll casting the line to get the fly up to the surface and then go for your back-cast. As far as it hitting the ground, that's a timing issue which could be resolved simply by practicing casting, you obviously need to speed up your tempo a wee bit.

EDIT: That Rio 6 weight line you have in the F/I is it an Outbound Short? Schultzy plugs those lines hard and it would make sense for them to sell you a 6 weight of one of those for that A4 7 weight, they are VERY heavy lines for their box rating. That line should work just fine for you.


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## wartfroggy

Booze pretty much nailed it. With a sinking tip, and especially with a weighted fly on it, stipping it in closer before attempting your back cast will help the most. The closer you can get the fly to the surface before starting the backcast, the better it will pop out of the water. You might also try bringing your rod tip up higher on the last couple of strips to get the fly to rise a little more. And like Booze said with hitting the ground, it is a timing issue. Sounds like it might be a combo of a couple of issues. Try giving a little more force on your backcast. Pay attention to how far back you are bringing your rod on the backcast....don't lower your rod too far behind you because that will add to your fly wanting to hit the ground behind you. And also it sounds like you might be hesitating a little too long on backcast before starting forward. Pay attention to hw the rod loads up. The best thing to do is have someone who is knowlegable WATCH you cast and give you adivice based upon what they see you doing. What you think is going on can be alot different than what someone sees watching you from the side.


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## Fly_Guy

Is your fly just not going out right? If that's the case try a shorter stouter leader. Also don't false cast a lot. Pick it up and shoot it.

I have an A4 in a 7 weight and it throws weighted steamers no problem.

Good luck!

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## Rahooty

Boozer said:


> EDIT: That Rio 6 weight line you have in the F/I is it an Outbound Short? Schultzy plugs those lines hard and it would make sense for them to sell you a 6 weight of one of those for that A4 7 weight, they are VERY heavy lines for their box rating. That line should work just fine for you.


Yep, OutBound Short Coldwater... I was wondering why he sold me a 6 weight for a 7 weight rod...

Thanks for your help, what you said was the only way I could get the line into a back cast, I had to strip it in just about to the clear part of the line, then I could get it out for a back cast and shoot, (which is okay, because I was fishing the minnow) but I could only shoot it out to about 20ft, and because I cant false cast with the weight it makes changing direction (from down stream to across) much more dificult...

Like a previous poster said, it will take me practice (thats why I was practicing with trout flies even though the trout aint there, practicing for fall when they come back through) but decided to rig up for bass, gotta catch something to make it more fun LoL.


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## Boozer

Rahooty said:


> Yep, OutBound Short Coldwater... I was wondering why he sold me a 6 weight for a 7 weight rod...
> 
> Thanks for your help, what you said was the only way I could get the line into a back cast, I had to strip it in just about to the clear part of the line, then I could get it out for a back cast and shoot, (which is okay, because I was fishing the minnow) but I could only shoot it out to about 20ft, and because I cant false cast with the weight it makes changing direction (from down stream to across) much more dificult...
> 
> Like a previous poster said, it will take me practice (thats why I was practicing with trout flies even though the trout aint there, practicing for fall when they come back through) but decided to rig up for bass, gotta catch something to make it more fun LoL.


Just practice, you should be able to false cast those weighted clousers just fine, it's just a matter of getting used to it...

That Outbound short is a floater except for the clear part which is a slow sink...

As for the change in direction required to cast it back across river, you should be able to roll the line up river in sort of a modified roll cast, not only will this take care of the change in direction you need, it will also have the line and fly near the surface, making it easier to pull everything out to achieve your back-cast...

Be careful with those Smallies, before long you will forget all about Trout...


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## Rahooty

Fly_Guy said:


> Is your fly just not going out right? If that's the case try a shorter stouter leader. Also don't false cast a lot. Pick it up and shoot it.
> 
> I have an A4 in a 7 weight and it throws weighted steamers no problem.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


I am sure it is me, I have already learned a seasoned fly fisher can fish with a broom stick...

I think your advise on a different leader will help too, I was using a 7.5 knoted taper leader down to 4X (Fluorocarbon), I have a pack of RIO Bonefish tapered leaders "10ft 12lb" about twice the test... maybe I am getting to much strech ???


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## Boozer

Rahooty said:


> I am sure it is me, I have already learned a seasoned fly fisher can fish with a broom stick...
> 
> I think your advise on a different leader will help too, I was using a 7.5 knoted taper leader down to 4X (Fluorocarbon), I have a pack of RIO Bonefish tapered leaders "10ft 12lb" about twice the test... maybe I am getting to much strech ???


On a sink tip line, you use a short lead, like 4', so that Outbound short you would only use like 4' of 10 or 12 pound...

They are not designed to be used with long leads and it would explain why you are having trouble....

Forget the fluoro and get some Maxima Ultragreen...

Cheaper and better for what you are doing...

I bet if you stopped in and seen Schultzy, he would be happy to help you out...


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## Rahooty

Boozer said:


> Just practice, you should be able to false cast those weighted clousers just fine, it's just a matter of getting used to it...
> 
> That Outbound short is a floater except for the clear part which is a slow sink...
> 
> As for the change in direction required to cast it back across river, you should be able to roll the line up river in sort of a modified roll cast, not only will this take care of the change in direction you need, it will also have the line and fly near the surface, making it easier to pull everything out to achieve your back-cast...
> 
> Be careful with those Smallies, before long you will forget all about Trout...


I need to practice the back cast with that weight like you said... not only will that help with the change of direction, but let me shoot a little farther...

I just restrung my reel with the SA mastery textured 7 weight float line, was going to try that with a sinking leader, should I put the RIO back on and keep practicing with it?


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## Boozer

Rahooty said:


> I need to practice the back cast with that weight like you said... not only will that help with the change of direction, but let me shoot a little farther...
> 
> I just restrung my reel with the SA mastery textured 7 weight float line, was going to try that with a sinking leader, should I put the RIO back on and keep practicing with it?


I wouldn't put a sink tip on the end of the floating line, especially since you are struggling as it is. If you use the floating line, use a stout 9' mono or fluoro leader to the fly, the Rio or SA Bass leaders are great...

If you want a sinktip...

I would put the Rio back on and like I said, just attach 4' of 10 or 12 pound line for a leader, nothing more...


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## Rahooty

Boozer said:


> Just practice, you should be able to false cast those weighted clousers just fine, it's just a matter of getting used to it...
> 
> That Outbound short is a floater except for the clear part which is a slow sink...
> 
> As for the change in direction required to cast it back across river, you should be able to roll the line up river in sort of a modified roll cast, not only will this take care of the change in direction you need, it will also have the line and fly near the surface, making it easier to pull everything out to achieve your back-cast...
> 
> Be careful with those Smallies, before long you will forget all about Trout...





Boozer said:


> On a sink tip line, you use a short lead, like 4', so that Outbound short you would only use like 4' of 10 or 12 pound...
> 
> They are not designed to be used with long leads and it would explain why you are having trouble....
> 
> Forget the fluoro and get some Maxima Ultragreen...
> 
> Cheaper and better for what you are doing...
> 
> I bet if you stopped in and seen Schultzy, he would be happy to help you out...


I am sure he would, he's a great guy, and the one that sold me the A4, but he was so busy last weekend with the "Demo Days" show he was having a hard time helping anyone, it was a great show, I enjoyed it...


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## Bull Market

Go with Boozer's advice. It's a hundred times easier to throw heavily weighted streamers with a sinking or sink tip line. They are MUCH easier to cast than floating lines, when a heavy streamer is attached to the end. Also, the short leader (4-foot) is top notch advice. Nix the floating line.


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## Rahooty

Bull Market said:


> Go with Boozer's advice. It's a hundred times easier to throw heavily weighted streamers with a sinking or sink tip line. They are MUCH easier to cast than floating lines, when a heavy streamer is attached to the end. Also, the short leader (4-foot) is top notch advice. Nix the floating line.


Thanks for your help guys, first I off to the store to get the leader line, then gona put the sink tip line back on, then going fishing tomorrow 

This is regular level line for the leader right? same stuff for spin casting?


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## Boozer

Rahooty said:


> Thanks for your help guys, first I off to the store to get the leader line, then gona put the sink tip line back on, then going fishing tomorrow
> 
> This is regular level line for the leader right? same stuff for spin casting?


Yeah, on sink tips there is no need for a tapered line...

Even something like Berkley XT would work OK, but if Schultz Outfitters is close by, they will have Maxima Ultragreen...


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## Rahooty

Boozer said:


> Yeah, on sink tips there is no need for a tapered line...
> 
> Even something like Berkley XT would work OK, but if Schultz Outfitters is close by, they will have Maxima Ultragreen...


He is a hour away from me... so if I cant get some local tonight, ill go there tomorrow, Im off until monday and weather is great... so I want to get hooked up...

Thanks for all your help guys... ill give it a try...


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## swaprat

Boozer said:


> My FAVORITE line for hucking Clouser Minnows is the Mastery Textured Saltwater Clear Tip Line with about 4' of 10 or 12 pound Maxima as a lead. This would work great for your A4 rod. I use it on my S4 sticks all the time.
> 
> http://buy.scientificanglers.com/li...tery-textured-series-saltwater-clear-tip.html
> 
> In the early Spring or late Fall, I may use the Mastery Wet Tip Type III sink tip line to get a little deeper.
> 
> I personally don't care much for a floating line and weighted streamers in moving water like a river. If you use the Titan Taper, a 9' Bass tapered leader ending in 12 pound tippet should work fine...
> 
> As far as getting it out of the water, you are gonna have to strip it in a lil farther if you are having issues pulling it out of the water to make your back-cast. You may also try stripping it in and then roll casting the line to get the fly up to the surface and then go for your back-cast. As far as it hitting the ground, that's a timing issue which could be resolved simply by practicing casting, you obviously need to speed up your tempo a wee bit.
> 
> EDIT: That Rio 6 weight line you have in the F/I is it an Outbound Short? Schultzy plugs those lines hard and it would make sense for them to sell you a 6 weight of one of those for that A4 7 weight, they are VERY heavy lines for their box rating. That line should work just fine for you.





wartfroggy said:


> Booze pretty much nailed it. With a sinking tip, and especially with a weighted fly on it, stipping it in closer before attempting your back cast will help the most. The closer you can get the fly to the surface before starting the backcast, the better it will pop out of the water. You might also try bringing your rod tip up higher on the last couple of strips to get the fly to rise a little more. And like Booze said with hitting the ground, it is a timing issue. Sounds like it might be a combo of a couple of issues. Try giving a little more force on your backcast. Pay attention to how far back you are bringing your rod on the backcast....don't lower your rod too far behind you because that will add to your fly wanting to hit the ground behind you. And also it sounds like you might be hesitating a little too long on backcast before starting forward. Pay attention to hw the rod loads up. The best thing to do is have someone who is knowlegable WATCH you cast and give you adivice based upon what they see you doing. What you think is going on can be alot different than what someone sees watching you from the side.


 
good points guys what if he tied up some with bead chain eyes? learned to do that down south in the glades. for red fish of course there not as heavy and like all lead when you cast it it will not fly in diffrent directions. when it loads the rod tip. any ways schultz does know his stuff so do these guys. by the way how deep are you fishing to need lead eyes? is it that deep to need to get them down quick? you can still get hooked up on bass with bead chain eyes with a sink tip in shallow flats it just not suggest if it that deep and you want to apear like it swiming to the surface. also it sounds like these guys are right and wish ya luck.


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## aquaticsanonymous

One thing that I do is to make sure to let the line straighten all the way out on the back cast, this seems to let me cast better with them. I use a mini sink tip with floating line, but i keep my leader at 2 foot or less, and run 20 lb fluorcarbine.


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## Rahooty

swaprat said:


> good points guys what if he tied up some with bead chain eyes? learned to do that down south in the glades. for red fish of course there not as heavy and like all lead when you cast it it will not fly in diffrent directions. when it loads the rod tip. any ways schultz does know his stuff so do these guys. by the way how deep are you fishing to need lead eyes? is it that deep to need to get them down quick? you can still get hooked up on bass with bead chain eyes with a sink tip in shallow flats it just not suggest if it that deep and you want to apear like it swiming to the surface. also it sounds like these guys are right and wish ya luck.


I'm not that deep, 2-6, but its moving fairly fast, I was going to tie up some clousers with bead chain to try it... but after using a beaded wooly bugger and not having problems I figured it was something I was doing wrong... I made up some 4ft level line 12lb test leaders last night, and put the tip sinker back on like they suggested... will give it a try today (soon as I can get out there, seems every time I pick up my rod something comes up LoL)

I have read online guys throwing these lead eyes with 5 weight rigs, so if I can't do it with a 7 then its my rigging, me, or both :lol:


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## Rahooty

aquaticsanonymous said:


> One thing that I do is to make sure to let the line straighten all the way out on the back cast, this seems to let me cast better with them. I use a mini sink tip with floating line, but i keep my leader at 2 foot or less, and run 20 lb fluorcarbine.


That's one thing I did figure out last time out was I have to let the rod load and get the timing right...

From your picture its working, Ill remember that... I am planning on going down to the River Raisin with some friends in a week or so, they have only floating lines... I guess they could use a short strait leader and keep close watch on the floating line???

Thanks for everyone's help...


Thanks...


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## aquaticsanonymous

With a floating line and waters 2 to 6 feet deep, you will want them to run a 9 foot leader of say 10 to 20 lb flouro or mono. The longer leader with floating line will keep it down.

With sinking line, you want a short leader, so that the fly stays down as the sinking line goes down.

Also, I wouldn't fish a clouser without dumbell eyes. And also, I strip it in though, I don't drift it.


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## Rahooty

Thanks to all you guys, I put the RIO Sink Tip back on, made some 4 foot leaders out of the recommended line in 12 lb test, and today the only reason any paint was missing from my Clouser lead heads were because it was bouncing off the bottom down the river and on a swing like it's supposed to... the one the other day looked like a poor battered wife LoL...

With the advise on giving the tip enough time to get off the bottom before pulling it out of the water, and the correct leader, not only was I able to back cast without hitting the water (or the bank) behind me, I was able to false cast...

Although... it may be my lack of experience, but it seems much harder to achieve a good roll cast with the sink tip line...

Thanks so much guys, I learned in one day on this forum what would have taken me a summer to learn on my own...


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## aquaticsanonymous

It's funny how that helps, lol. Shortens the learning curve for sure. I did the exact same experiment, and had my questions answered on another forum, lol! Did you try stripping in your clouser? Also, what color clousers were you fishing?


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## aquaticsanonymous

Also, I don't roll cast with my sink tip line on. It's too hard for me to do so.


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## Rahooty

aquaticsanonymous said:


> It's funny how that helps, lol. Shortens the learning curve for sure. I did the exact same experiment, and had my questions answered on another forum, lol! Did you try stripping in your clouser? Also, what color clousers were you fishing?


Yep, I stripped for a while, then I started swinging, I actually had a fish on the line once but he got off...

First I used a yellow medium dumbbell with white buck tail over the nose/eye to the tail with with Krystal Gray Ghost/Pearl flash and yellow buck tail on what would be the back (my beat up fly for testing LoL)

Then I switched to a red medium dumbbell head with white buck tail over the nose/eye to the tail, 3 each white and brown thin neck hackle, and Copper Krystal flash (bout 6 strands) and grey buck tail on what would be the bottom... I got several strikes and one taker that got off on this one, all drifting the bank and swinging and all the action was on the swing, no fish but I was just happy I was able to get it to them...


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## Rahooty

aquaticsanonymous said:


> It's funny how that helps, lol. Shortens the learning curve for sure. I did the exact same experiment, and had my questions answered on another forum, lol! Did you try stripping in your clouser? Also, what color clousers were you fishing?


Yep, I stripped for a while, then I started swinging, I actually had a fish on the line once but he got off...

First I used a yellow medium dumbbell with white buck tail over the nose/eye to the tail with with Krystal Gray Ghost/Pearl flash and yellow buck tail on what would be the back (my beat up fly for testing LoL)

Then I switched to a red medium dumbbell head with white buck tail over the nose/eye to the tail, 3 each white and brown thin neck hackle, and Copper Krystal flash (bout 6 strands) and grey buck tail on what would be the bottom... I got several strikes and one taker that got off on this one, all drifting the back and swinging and all the action was on the swing, no fish but I was just happy I was able to get it to them...


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## swaprat

Rahooty said:


> I'm not that deep, 2-6, but its moving fairly fast, I was going to tie up some clousers with bead chain to try it... but after using a beaded wooly bugger and not having problems I figured it was something I was doing wrong... I made up some 4ft level line 12lb test leaders last night, and put the tip sinker back on like they suggested... will give it a try today (soon as I can get out there, seems every time I pick up my rod something comes up LoL)
> 
> I have read online guys throwing these lead eyes with 5 weight rigs, so if I can't do it with a 7 then its my rigging, me, or both :lol:


 

you hit the nail on the head leting these guy help ya. i was wondering if it was deep fast etc... too see if it would help i hate casting lead but some time you got to, it is good pratice. yes that shortened leader and full retrive will help with casting that's why i am glad you listen to them. any ways best regards to you and wish ya luck.


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