# Suggestion Box for MGT areas



## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

i am plenty old but this is my first year hunting ducks.... my first hunt was at FP and we have tried all the eastside MGT areas with decent success. It is obvious getting birds close enough to kill is the key ..... there are suggestion boxes in every one of the areas ... this is what an outsider would suggest to make it more productive .... reduce the number of shells allowed to discourage long range shots and maybe shot size and shell size to do the same .... alternate days off for areas ... max one motoized winged decoy per zone .... or none at all... and have everyone agree to a second random drawing for one zone to get a complete audit by a CO including 1/2 observation and an in field visit and complete check to make sure the party of 2 in the drawing didnot become a party of 4 to increase the chance of a better draw ... what would you suggest ?


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## Aaronjeep2 (Nov 18, 2016)

I think the days off would be good I wish there was a way to stop sky busters but there's no way to do that.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Days off doesn't seem to matter much. There's always fields without hunters at most managed areas that the birds could fly to and feed without disturbance, yet they don't.

Would love to see more CO presence. They should be able to watch from a distance and know pretty quickly what zones are target rich environments.


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

I was thinking the entire Mgt area being closed on a rotating basis .... not just zones inside of each area ... just a thought


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## adam bomb (Feb 27, 2006)

I'd like to see days off too. Let the birds go into areas and actually eat. 2-3 days of that and you would have a better quality of hunt. Yes there are fields open everyday and the ducks still don't go into them. Why?....because they're not appealing. They're the same zones year after year after year that have a poor duck harvest. Usually bad water and poor cover zones or zones on the outside where the ducks aren't working most of the time. Yes they have their days. Usually late season on an apocalyptic waterfowl day that dreams are made of. Or late when everything else is ate out...and even still they work the prime zones first most times. I'd also like to see the smaller areas eliminate some of the zones because we're putting too many people too close together. 3 zones at NP is 2 at FP. Less hunter opportunity yes but I'd take that for safety and a better quality of hunt. Gives you room to get away from the nimrod that sets up on the post down wind and takes a pot shot at the birds on the swing as they're coming to your spread.


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## Duck-Hunter (Mar 31, 2005)

I can tell you now they won't reinvent the wheel. I'm not saying don't put your suggestions into the box. A lot of people get up tight when they feel their suggestion goes unheard.

The best thing they could do is make zones bigger. Point Mouillee was awesome when they only had 2 zones of corn. I haven't been there in a couple seasons, used to go there 1-2 times a week. I read somewhere saying zone 17?!? Last I was there was 14 zones.

I understand they want more hunting opportunities but cramming 10 pounds of crap in a 5 pound bag is not the answer. Packing guys in too close just ruins the experience, some people never come back and can also result in more birds being blown out of the area. We all walk in the door that morning with 3 options. 1) flood corn, my prime pick, 2) hunt a marsh zone, rolling the dice, 3) scratch, try and salvage a hunt somewhere else. 98% of the time I hunted there I went with options 1 or 3. I was well aware what I was getting myself into. I live an hour away and I always had a Plan B. Two of my friends live within 5 min of there. Usually just left the boat at one of their houses if I got in the corn.

Bigger zones, or putting in buffer(retrieval areas) spots in between zones would help, rest days would also help big time. But then again I don't have a degree in biology but I know it works. We've put it into action on my buddies farm, always shoot our birds when they are around. Only issues with cutting back on days, making bigger zones or buffers would cut into money coming in and they won't let that happen either.


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## jwinks (Mar 20, 2014)

I love the idea to have a drawing to observe and check a party every hunt. Probably not realistic for a CO to spend half the day doing that, considering most of the time they would be legal. I guess the point would be that it’s a deterrent though. 

Closing certain days each week is a lost cause. 

Already have shell limits.

One mojo is an interesting suggestion. A lot of people’s complaints are about zones running a pile of mojos. And it would be easier to swallow than a straight up ban.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

I like things just how they are. I don’t like shutting down a couple days a week for purely selfish reasons. There’s tricks to these areas that is only learned through experience. There’s guys that hunt certain areas that always manage to kill birds regardless of any factors.

I would LOVE to see FP ban spinners. People go full retard there with them.


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

jwinks said:


> I love the idea to have a drawing to observe and check a party every hunt. Probably not realistic for a CO to spend half the day doing that, considering most of the time they would be legal. I guess the point would be that it’s a deterrent though.
> 
> Closing certain days each week is a lost cause.
> 
> ...


Where are shell limits? Are youbtalking 25? 25 seems excessive...Would 12 per person reduce sky blasting ?


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## Bertslash (Sep 3, 2011)

I agree that they need to make the zones bigger.... but they want more spots in the “prime” areas. 

Last week was the first time in 5-6 years I have seen a CO out and around asking us about a neighboring zone. Not that I want someone breathing down my neck... but we as a whole need to do something about the skybusting!!


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Shell limits only work if enforced. I’m perfectly fine with 25 shells.


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## jwinks (Mar 20, 2014)

Huntingguy23 said:


> Where are shell limits? Are youbtalking 25? 25 seems excessive...Would 12 per person reduce sky blasting ?


It took me 11 shells to kill a goose once. Had a little wind, shot it over the decoys and we went on a chase. Good thing there wasn’t anybody else in the next two zones...

I don’t think 25 is excessive at all, if you shoot at cripples a few times.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Skybusting isn't illegal. Setting up on the wrong side of the corn isn't illegal. Calling like a moron isn't illegal. Running lots if spinnies, where allowed, isn't illegal.

Being stupid isn't illegal. However, the people who haven't taken the time to learn how to work the bingo are probably the ones with unsigned stamps and two boxes of lead shot.

Each unit needs to set its own rules. Last hunts at NP and PM we ran spinnies and limited. Last hunt at MWW we ran 6 spinnies and shot more ducks than everyone else there that night combined, which was a little lucky as we had the zone. But when I hunt Harsens or Shiawassee I can say I don't mind the lack of the spinner arms race. And hunting where they are allowed over water, this late in the year, I'm usually running a very small spread of unique decoys and leaving the spinners at home.


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

Huntingguy23 said:


> i am plenty old but this is my first year hunting ducks.... my first hunt was at FP and we have tried all the eastside MGT areas with decent success. It is obvious getting birds close enough to kill is the key ..... there are suggestion boxes in every one of the areas ... this is what an outsider would suggest to make it more productive .... reduce the number of shells allowed to discourage long range shots and maybe shot size and shell size to do the same .... alternate days off for areas ... max one motoized winged decoy per zone .... or none at all... and have everyone agree to a second random drawing for one zone to get a complete audit by a CO including 1/2 observation and an in field visit and complete check to make sure the party of 2 in the drawing didnot become a party of 4 to increase the chance of a better draw ... what would you suggest ?


ensuring NONE of these happen!


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

Huntingguy23 said:


> I was thinking the entire Mgt area being closed on a rotating basis .... not just zones inside of each area ... just a thought


NP is closed completely on 4 days, plus another half day - 5 hunts per week
harsens is open to 14 hunts
harsens bird per hunter is higher


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

adam bomb said:


> I'd like to see days off too. Let the birds go into areas and actually eat. 2-3 days of that and you would have a better quality of hunt. Yes there are fields open everyday and the ducks still don't go into them. Why?....because they're not appealing. They're the same zones year after year after year that have a poor duck harvest. Usually bad water and poor cover zones or zones on the outside where the ducks aren't working most of the time. Yes they have their days. Usually late season on an apocalyptic waterfowl day that dreams are made of. Or late when everything else is ate out...and even still they work the prime zones first most times. I'd also like to see the smaller areas eliminate some of the zones because we're putting too many people too close together. 3 zones at NP is 2 at FP. Less hunter opportunity yes but I'd take that for safety and a better quality of hunt. Gives you room to get away from the nimrod that sets up on the post down wind and takes a pot shot at the birds on the swing as they're coming to your spread.



nice contradiction
close to let birds eat corn & poorer zones get birds after corn is eaten out


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

craigrh13 said:


> I like things just how they are. I don’t like shutting down a couple days a week for purely selfish reasons. There’s tricks to these areas that is only learned through experience. There’s guys that hunt certain areas that always manage to kill birds regardless of any factors.
> 
> I would LOVE to see FP ban spinners. People go full retard there with them.



craig - i totally agree
experienced hunters have no issues


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

Huntingguy23 said:


> Where are shell limits? Are youbtalking 25? 25 seems excessive...Would 12 per person reduce sky blasting ?



no offense, but are you nuts?
12 shells to kill 9 birds - would love to see you do that!
oops, i forgot you do not even know what the shell limits are (but have an opinion - haha)


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## Highball28 (Oct 17, 2014)

Ran 2 spinnies at FP the other day and can't say that it hurt really. Neighbors next to us ran none and didn't shoot anything, I've never seen the arms race but can bet that's where the problem lies. A two spinner limit per zone seems like a half decent idea to me!


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

NP is open am and pm every day.

Problem with spinners is when they are not working, people don't recognize it and it affects more than just them.

When we limited out at PM I was well into my box of shells and my buddy almost went through his. He shoots clays competitively and I kill about 75% of the ducks I shoot at, but we were covered in teal that day. Hunt at NP I missed my first mallard then killed the next six birds. I'd hate to see cripples swim away for lack of shells.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Fennville used to have a 12 shell limit. You haven't seen skybusting until you hunt Fennville.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> NP is open am and pm every day.
> 
> Problem with spinners is when they are not working, people don't recognize it and it affects more than just them.
> 
> When we limited out at PM I was well into my box of shells and my buddy almost went through his. He shoots clays competitively and I kill about 75% of the ducks I shoot at, but we were covered in teal that day. Hunt at NP I missed my first mallard then killed the next six birds. I'd hate to see cripples swim away for lack of shells.



25 shells is a good number. The real problem is not the number of shells, it's the mindset of many hunters that we need to be able to shoot ducks at 40 yards+. Crippling rates, misses, etc, would go down with a decrease in the range that ducks are shot at.


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## natureboy2534 (Dec 11, 2013)

Spinner ban doesn't matter to me do we use them...Yes...Do i care if they take them away...No...If you want 5 or 50 i dont care..Me i will mostly take mine out if i see birds changing there minds over and over... I killed birds over them and with out them..I've been hunting bingos for a long time and i think once I was close to running out of shells..Mostly i will shoot my 10 shells or so and the other times its at crippled ducks..Im all for the bigger fields to hunt to spread out the hunters, FP could eliminate a couple in there fields but when talking to Pat or someone else behind the desk they want to put as many hunters in the fields as possible to get everyone out to hunt. Thats why if you go to FP your odds are better to get a spot if your drawn way down the line other than NP where your limited to not as many spots, and i know FP is bigger than Np but taking out 2 fields out at FP would help the cripples and let birds swing in a little better..I would rather be way down the draw line than be first picked that way i can pick my spot AWAY from the trigger happy hunters and get to a spot where i wont have as many in my fields.


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

TheHighLIfe said:


> no offense, but are you nuts?
> 12 shells to kill 9 birds - would love to see you do that!
> oops, i forgot you do not even know what the shell limits are (but have an opinion - haha)


I am a rookie and old guy .... i try to travel as light as possible going in and coming out ...... 12 shells fits in my wader pocket and have not run out yet .... i am patient and only shoot at birds when i can see their feet and my dog takes care of any cripples ...so i am happy with one ...until i have one then two is the goal


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Huntingguy23 said:


> I am a rookie and old guy .... i try to travel as light as possible going in and coming out ...... 12 shells fits in my wader pocket and have not run out yet .... i am patient and only shoot at birds when i can see their feet and my dog takes care of any cripples ...so i am happy with one ...until i have one then two is the goal



Let 'em work, shoot 'em close. That is the real answer. 

25 shots in the managed zones is a good number.


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

Huntingguy23 said:


> Where are shell limits? Are youbtalking 25? 25 seems excessive...Would 12 per person reduce sky blasting ?


Nayanquing Point had a 15 shell limit a long time ago, but the bag limit on ducks was 3 then. I started hunting managed areas 40 years ago. Some things have not changed, like sky busting and bad calling. Spinners are a new twist. But I dont use them late season and I dont care if the party next to me has 5 out. My last trip out the guys had 3 spinners, and a bad caller. I had no spinners and only 8 deeks, only used the feeder chuckle when the birds were 60 or 70 yards out, they wanted to land in my location not the party next to me. 

Ducks have seen spinners since early September in Canada, those that live long enough avoid them. Now thats just my two cents but not using them late season works for me.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

i'm glad we don't let new hunters make the rules. 25 shells is a great number...It in no way, shape or form limits skybusters when you limit shell count.

its kinda interesting to see the shift on spinners. 5 years ago, the thought or mention of it created a 20 page thread on here. Best move shiawassee has ever made. Every hunt i had this year on the flats was simply amazing this year. birds decoyed tight...i shot good...killed many limits this year....3-4 times i ran low on shells (whole group did) and we were taking 30 yard feet down shots. The big issue here is possibility of 9 birds....and cripple swatting.

couple things on my personal selfish wish list, 

1. i would like to see spinners allowed in marsh units (non-ag units). I understand why we can't because of enforcment difficulties
2. lower limit on birds.(i know, i know wtf?) its for my own selfish reasons. this is a quality of the hunt thing.
3. limit party size to 3 instead of 4 (again, my own selfish reasons) this is a quality of the hunt thing.

....all in all, i like where shiawassee is at currently. Cannot speak for the other areas as i've not ventured out to them lately.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Er, 14 birds. Mergs need love too.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> Er, 14 birds. Mergs need love too.


I can't afford to waste ammo on mergs or coots, it's just too darned expensive these days. 

My wife's uncle, who was a cajun, hunted "coot" all the time. He targeted them. His recipe for "coot gumbo" was out of this world. I never got to seem him clean a coot, and he died before I could get his recipe. What a shame.


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## deadduck365 (Nov 5, 2010)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> i'm glad we don't let new hunters make the rules. 25 shells is a great number...It in no way, shape or form limits skybusters when you limit shell count.
> 
> its kinda interesting to see the shift on spinners. 5 years ago, the thought or mention of it created a 20 page thread on here. Best move shiawassee has ever made. Every hunt i had this year on the flats was simply amazing this year. birds decoyed tight...i shot good...killed many limits this year....3-4 times i ran low on shells (whole group did) and we were taking 30 yard feet down shots. The big issue here is possibility of 9 birds....and cripple swatting.
> 
> ...


I like option 1 and 3. 3 could eliminate tag ons.


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> i'm glad we don't let new hunters make the rules. 25 shells is a great number...It in no way, shape or form limits skybusters when you limit shell count.
> 
> its kinda interesting to see the shift on spinners. 5 years ago, the thought or mention of it created a 20 page thread on here. Best move shiawassee has ever made. Every hunt i had this year on the flats was simply amazing this year. birds decoyed tight...i shot good...killed many limits this year....3-4 times i ran low on shells (whole group did) and we were taking 30 yard feet down shots. The big issue here is possibility of 9 birds....and cripple swatting.
> 
> ...


Well i am glad that new hunters can make suggestions to possibly improve the quality of the hunting experience ... its my first year and i am just learning so i would certainly hope you know more than me .... if shell limits would not reduce sky busting .... why is there a 25 shell limit ? What is it intended to do?


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Inexpierience and wanting to hear the gun go bang causes skybusting.

I shoot mostly 3" Federal blue box 3's at the managed units for ducks. I've gotten it as low as $94.99 a case shipped and usually can get it for less than $110. That's not much more than good trap loads.

Gas in the truck and breakfast and lunch and supper costs me $100 each time I roll across the state. A couple extra 40 cent shells isn't going to hurt. Spending time with my increasingly occupied daughter is priceless.


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

i don't think they made 3in shells when my 20 gauge O/U was made i use 2 3/4 in #4 steel shot and have brought home 9 of the 10 ducks i have shot at .... no idea what happened on number 10


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## LooksMoosey (Aug 29, 2015)

25 is a good number. My box has gotten low before swatting cripples or on heavy teal days (dang those buggers are fast) and I am usually pretty picky about my shot (feet down in the decoys is my goal). Those that skybust probably bring more than 25 as it is.

I like the idea of limiting the number of spinners where they are not banned to two max. Had a hunt at fishpoint this year where a group set up on the wrong side of the corn (facing me and the wind) and had ten spinners. Talk about flaring ducks. They also had some sort of deal that spun several decoys in a circle and it sounded terrible. I could hear the rattle and spin from my zone. Ducks can hear that too guy! 

I wish there was a rule about boat sizes as well. Not everyone with large rigs does it but some larger boat owners feel the need to plow down the corn instead of going around.


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## deadduck365 (Nov 5, 2010)

Ash said:


> 25 is a good number. My box has gotten low before swatting cripples or on heavy teal days (dang those buggers are fast) and I am usually pretty picky about my shot (feet down in the decoys is my goal). Those that skybust probably bring more than 25 as it is.
> 
> I like the idea of limiting the number of spinners where they are not banned to two max. Had a hunt at fishpoint this year where a group set up on the wrong side of the corn (facing me and the wind) and had ten spinners. Talk about flaring ducks. They also had some sort of deal that spun several decoys in a circle and it sounded terrible. I could hear the rattle and spin from my zone. Ducks can hear that too guy!
> 
> I wish there was a rule about boat sizes as well. Not everyone with large rigs does it but some larger boat owners feel the need to plow down the corn instead of going around.


What would suggest for max boat size? Length restriction or width restriction? Remember you might have to put 3 very large adults in a boat. IMO 4 people should take 2 boats. That’s why I agree with kid for a limit to 3.


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## natureboy2534 (Dec 11, 2013)

Ash said:


> wish there was a rule about boat sizes as well. Not everyone with large rigs does it but some larger boat owners feel the need to plow down the corn instead of going around


So why punish the guys with big boat like me that DONT knock down corn and camo it up VERY well at the end of our fields that have places for your boats to park..I hunt with 2 guys in there 70s and the boat is there for them to get out and hunt at there age. Or if something ever happens to them while out there..


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## Aaronjeep2 (Nov 18, 2016)

boat restriction now I've heard it all. We are starting to sound like the cry baby deer hunters.


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## deadduck365 (Nov 5, 2010)

Aaronjeep2 said:


> boat restriction now I've heard it all. We are starting to sound like the cry baby deer hunters.


This has been an ongoing debate. Not as new as you think. I know at least 8 years. My dad and I upgraded this year to 1442 from a 1232. No way we would go back.


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## LooksMoosey (Aug 29, 2015)

natureboy2534 said:


> So why punish the guys with big boat like me that DONT knock down corn and camo it up VERY well at the end of our fields that have places for your boats to park..I hunt with 2 guys in there 70s and the boat is there for them to get out and hunt at there age. Or if something ever happens to them while out there..





Aaronjeep2 said:


> boat restriction now I've heard it all. We are starting to sound like the cry baby deer hunters.



Let’s not get riled up. This thread is for a discussion. There is a reason folks like myself are not in charge of making rules. My point is we all have opinions on how to make our own hunts better. It was just a thought I had because one of my biggest complaints is the mowed down corn, how do you suggest we limit that from happening? Same argument as the spinners and shell limits. It benefits some and hurts others. As long as everyone is legal it doesn’t matter.


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## mad hunter (Feb 6, 2014)

I don't see a benefit from a boat restriction unless someone's trying to bring a 20' boat in a management unit. All that means is with a group of 3 guys they'll have to bring 2 boats now. Ive seen canoe and 12' boats do more damage then my 1648. If everyone parks their boat on the most upwind side of their feild by the split and uses the same spot that's already been opened up there wouldn't be a problem.


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## Aaronjeep2 (Nov 18, 2016)

deadduck365 said:


> This has been an ongoing debate. Not as new as you think. I know at least 8 years. My dad and I upgraded this year to 1442 from a 1232. No way we would go back.


I got a 1642 i think it's a little big for the managed units but It works always park it at the end of the corn zones and cover it.


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## deadduck365 (Nov 5, 2010)

mad hunter said:


> I don't see a benefit from a boat restriction unless someone's trying to bring a 20' boat in a management unit. All that means is with a group of 3 guys they'll have to bring 2 boats now. Ive seen canoe and 12' boats do more damage then my 1648. If everyone parks their boat on the most upwind side of their feild by the split and uses the same spot that's already been opened up there wouldn't be a problem.


If if if if. I have seen 18 ft war eagle at harsens.


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## LooksMoosey (Aug 29, 2015)

mad hunter said:


> I don't see a benefit from a boat restriction unless someone's trying to bring a 20' boat in a management unit. All that means is with a group of 3 guys they'll have to bring 2 boats now. Ive seen canoe and 12' boats do more damage then my 1648. If everyone parks their boat on the most upwind side of their feild by the split and uses the same spot that's already been opened up there wouldn't be a problem.


I agree that it’s the guys in the boat that are the problem not the boat itself. I just can’t see another way to help mitigate cover loss. Maybe someone can suggest another enforceable way to prevent it from happening? Again, I know not every large boat owner does it. It’s just a thing I’ve seen over and over again and it’s almost always larger boats with huge motors doing the most damage (in my experience). Not saying it’s the right way to do things just that something needs to be done about corn cover loss. I wouldn’t even know where to start on picking a size limit or max length. Maybe it’s as simple as reducing party size like Kid suggested. Smaller parties= less impact


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## Aaronjeep2 (Nov 18, 2016)

Ash said:


> I agree that it’s the guys in the boat that are the problem not the boat itself. I just can’t see another way to help mitigate cover loss. Maybe someone can suggest another enforceable way to prevent it from happening? Again, I know not every large boat owner does it. It’s just a thing I’ve seen over and over again and it’s almost always larger boats with huge motors doing the most damage (in my experience). Not saying it’s the right way to do things just that something needs to be done about corn cover loss. I wouldn’t even know where to start on picking a size limit or max length. Maybe it’s as simple as reducing party size like Kid suggested. Smaller parties= less impact


Make fines for knocking down cover. when Checking in after hunts report how the corn was if some is knocked down report it. Wouldint be that hard to find out who knocked it down not like they have your phone number and your first and last name or any of that. They could cross check it and see the party Saturday am said cover was good none knocked down well the party Saturday pm said it was knocked down. that would mean the am party knocked it down now fine then 50 bucks or some thing. would generate more revenue for the managed units.


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## mad hunter (Feb 6, 2014)

Ash said:


> I just can’t see another way to help mitigate cover loss. Maybe someone can suggest another enforceable way to prevent it from happening?


Maybe suggest they put in spots at each end of feilds for boat parking would be the only way.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

If we're going to smaller parties, why not remove the restrictions on where single hunters can hunt? Some places have no restrictions (Fennville), some have some zones available, PM has single scramble zones where if you don't fill the zone some random guy can come hunt with you*, and others just too bad and you have to pick leftovers.

*My buddy goes to PM solo and takes zone 14. Sets up. Guy walks in, introduces himself, and sets up next to my rookie buddy. Doesn't say much. Bird starts working, guy pulls out his phone and starts playing ring tones that sound like ducks. Lights up the bird at 70 yards as it's working. Opens up his gear bag and pulls out one of many boxes of trap loads and reloads. Next bird comes in, he shoots across my buddy and wings it. Grabs his box of shells, goes through the retrieval zone into the refuge banging away. Buddy shoots a drake while the guy is shooting up the refuge, picks up his crap and leaves, stops the HQ and explains what's going on.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

We pull our kayak into the corn sometimes and use it to store stuff or get my daughter up out of the water. If there's boat parking spots, would that be allowed?


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## Aaronjeep2 (Nov 18, 2016)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> If we're going to smaller parties, why not remove the restrictions on where single hunters can hunt? Some places have no restrictions (Fennville), some have some zones available, PM has single scramble zones where if you don't fill the zone some random guy can come hunt with you*, and others just too bad and you have to pick leftovers.
> 
> *My buddy goes to PM solo and takes zone 14. Sets up. Guy walks in, introduces himself, and sets up next to my rookie buddy. Doesn't say much. Bird starts working, guy pulls out his phone and starts playing ring tones that sound like ducks. Lights up the bird at 70 yards as it's working. Opens up his gear bag and pulls out one of many boxes of trap loads and reloads. Next bird comes in, he shoots across my buddy and wings it. Grabs his box of shells, goes through the retrieval zone into the refuge banging away. Buddy shoots a drake while the guy is shooting up the refuge, picks up his crap and leaves, stops the HQ and explains what's going on.


 Would be nice to have more zones open to singles.


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## Bertslash (Sep 3, 2011)

Maybe have MARKED or designated “boat parking” spots? And “encourage” hunters to use them! 

But....... that all goes back to those that follow the rules or care about the corn cover, DO follow the rules! While others don’t.


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## Bertslash (Sep 3, 2011)

Even bigger surprise.... ANOTHER person agreed with Kid!!!


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## mad hunter (Feb 6, 2014)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> We pull our kayak into the corn sometimes and use it to store stuff or get my daughter up out of the water. If there's boat parking spots, would that be allowed?


That would have to be yes just talking big foot print boats. We use a standard size jet sled to keep our extra stuff close to us fits in between the corn perfect.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> If we're going to smaller parties, why not remove the restrictions on where single hunters can hunt?


as much as i benefit from a rule change like your suggesting...i'm 100% totally against it. Keep in mind when i suggesting the smaller party it was for my OWN selfish reasons....keep that in mind.

1. if you make more fields available, you are encouraging single hunting. The problem with encouraging it, less users can use the place as a whole. Many guys who simply couldn't get into a good shooting field will go home and not hunt. So in essence, you get 1 hunter in a hot field and 3 go home. Now i know....sometimes the hot field is a single field and so on....but i think you get the jist of the problem.

1a. more single spots = more singles drawing single for that very reason..."why party..lets all split up and do our own thing and take chances at the best fields". Singles will never get prime center fields...at least i hope not. fringe field offerings i would advocate for i suppose.

2. we have tossed the ideas around of offering a single eligible field/s in every block...not just specific areas. I'm still in favor of this. Right now there is no access for a single hunter in the draw for the big fields. There is many reasons for this...not just the "party only" thought process. Those are long trips, dangerous solo if your not prepared or dont' know what you're getting into and single zones predominately get taken by new guys trying the place out....this is why you see 1-8 and 60's as primarily singles.

again. my suggestions about party size have nothing to do with single access so please don't water down my point for another.

My dad was the original proponent for the 4 man max party. Pushed hard for it...and got it. In retrospect...he admits it was not a good move. here is why.

Self reason #1. it encouraged HUGE boats to accommodate 4 guys. Huge boats required means to get over the dikes easier. hence the domino effect into winches and other tricks to get out there easier.

Selfish reason #2. this was before 6 bird limits. shooting 12 mallards was not as hard or took as long. Nowadays if a field is hot...4 guys can take 4+ hours to shoot their birds and thats not even talking 3 geese, lol. Back in the day with 3 bird limits, 3 guys could limit in hour and get out. Then all the fields around it will get some shooting or limit in progression. That doesn't happen anymore mainly because 4 guys are in there forever trying to shoot 24 ducks.

Selfish reason#3. hiding 4 guys in a field...pain in the ass. stand across from a field with 4 guys and they stick out sore thumbs. Harder for each other to communicate....more bad shots are taken, etc..

i'm against boat limits. corn damage wasn't as bad as everyone made it out to be this year. yes some of the best fields got damaged but thats to be expected. yes there is guys still hunting out of their boats...hell there is a 20+ year veteran out there that still hunts from his boat. But i hunted every block of fields this year and was able to use all the prime spots without issues late in to thanksgiving time.

Sorry for long read.


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

My grandson floats a jet sled when comes and like said it fits perfectly between the toes of corn without damage .... any boat bigger than that does damage if it is parked in the corn ... so any size restrictions would probably not matter .... designating a spot for them is wind dependent but would limit damage IF used properly .... that is where a random drawing for a CO visit keeps everyone following the rules


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

Kid..you never adressed the purpose of the current 25 shell limit


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## CaptDrake (Nov 17, 2015)

1. Has anyone ever thought about only having one draw per day? Draw once in the morning and the spot is yours for the day. You could hunt it in the morning, afternoon...
I know there's many good things and bad things. The only reason I bring it up is it may be a compromise from shutting the whole place down for a day. If you get into a good spot, you get in, shoot your birds and get out. Gives the other fields the possibility of working birds after your departure. It also rests the spot the remainder of the day. This is not my original idea, many other states run all day draws. What are the thoughts here?
2. What are the thoughts on this forum about ONLINE draws? For selfish reasons I hope this never happens as I live fairly close to NP, FP and the Flats. I have no problem going to the area just to see if I can get a draw. But for those that travel...would it not be really nice to know if you are successful the evening before? Saves gas and time? Again, I'm looking at thoughts from others...


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

If there is to be only one draw per day it should be a morning only hunt, done at noon. Most of the really good duck hunting clubs in the south only shoot the mornings. Not a bad idea.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

DecoySlayer said:


> If there is to be only one draw per day it should be a morning only hunt, done at noon. Most of the really good duck hunting clubs in the south only shoot the mornings. Not a bad idea.


Those are in stellar migration states that hold waterfowl. We are mostly a flyover state. Just a short stop on the way south. 

No, I don’t want to see only 1 draw per day. Keep things how they are.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

I was just responding to another post. There is not going to be any serious changes.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

My dad was the original proponent for the 4 man max party. Pushed hard for it...and got it. In retrospect...he admits it was not a good move. here is why.

Self reason #1. it encouraged HUGE boats to accommodate 4 guys. Huge boats required means to get over the dikes easier. hence the domino effect into winches and other tricks to get out there easier.


Don't you guys modify boats for winches? I sense a conspiracy here 

My kayak slides between the corn no issues. Not as easily as a Jet Sled, but you can't sit in a jet sled and take a nap after paddling out to zone 44 solo on a blue sky, dead calm day when it should have been a hint why no one else went to the 40's and it was still on the board for singles.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

AM draws suck for learning the units. I've hit all of them at least a few times and there's still some zones in some units I would not pull on an AM hunt. Also, some units (Harsen's) just hunt better in the PM hunts.


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## eye-sore (Jan 7, 2012)

FNG


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Huntingguy23 said:


> Kid..you never adressed the purpose of the current 25 shell limit


this is very easy to address. i'm not taking 15 shells out to shoot 9 birds. you limit my shells to 15 and i will stay home or go walleye fishing...or chase deer.

you cannot remove the fun from duck hunting...and expect the sport to grow. I hunted 16 times this year and NOT ONCE had skybuster problems. I'm sorry you may have witnessed this issue...but do like i do and choose carefully when its your time to draw. Responsibility is on you...yourself to make the hunt the best it can be...I don't expect to penalize the whole SGA hunting population just so i can attempt to get skybust free outcome 100% of the time.(which you will not achieve with the shell limit...proven....just see harsens or other game areas that were once low shell limits).


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> Don't you guys modify boats for winches? I sense a conspiracy here
> 
> My kayak slides between the corn no issues. Not as easily as a Jet Sled, but you can't sit in a jet sled and take a nap after paddling out to zone 44 solo on a blue sky, dead calm day when it should have been a hint why no one else went to the 40's and it was still on the board for singles.


i do. been a very successful endeavor. that should tell you how bad i think it has changed the flats IMO. If they removed winches tomorrow, it wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit. That means guys would go back to canoes and small boats. small boats would get hidden better allowing less flare from the birds, less cover damage....no alarm clock chainsaws telling the birds what time it is.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

CaptDrake said:


> 1. Has anyone ever thought about only having one draw per day? Draw once in the morning and the spot is yours for the day. You could hunt it in the morning, afternoon...
> I know there's many good things and bad things. The only reason I bring it up is it may be a compromise from shutting the whole place down for a day. If you get into a good spot, you get in, shoot your birds and get out. Gives the other fields the possibility of working birds after your departure. It also rests the spot the remainder of the day. This is not my original idea, many other states run all day draws. What are the thoughts here?
> 2. What are the thoughts on this forum about ONLINE draws? For selfish reasons I hope this never happens as I live fairly close to NP, FP and the Flats. I have no problem going to the area just to see if I can get a draw. But for those that travel...would it not be really nice to know if you are successful the evening before? Saves gas and time? Again, I'm looking at thoughts from others...


one draw per day? never happen. limiting the resource to the hunters over a much limited migration is counter productive. we are not a desitination state. those are 2 different monsters.

you will not see any kind of resting periods or days...at least on the east side managed areas. I suggested it a few meetings once and was damn near run outa the room. And they have very valid points. You start limiting access during a very short time period of migration...you are gonna be considered the devil. Lets say tomorrow was a shut down day...and weather calling for NW 25 with blowing snow...and i can't hunt it? I think if i was the guy that suggested that rule or got that put on the rulebook....he best be hiding casue he will be hunted down and flogged.

I think if you goto a online draw system you will see the death of the managed area....and i'm an IT guy. part of the process and experience is the fieldhouse draw, talking to other hunters, talking to the managers. please i hope we don't go that direction.


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> this is very easy to address. i'm not taking 15 shells out to shoot 9 birds. you limit my shells to 15 and i will stay home or go walleye fishing...or chase deer.
> 
> you cannot remove the fun from duck hunting...and expect the sport to grow. I hunted 16 times this year and NOT ONCE had skybuster problems. I'm sorry you may have witnessed this issue...but do like i do and choose carefully when its your time to draw. Responsibility is on you...yourself to make the hunt the best it can be...I don't expect to penalize the whole SGA hunting population just so i can attempt to get skybust free outcome 100% of the time.(which you will not achieve with the shell limit...proven....just see harsens or other game areas that were once low shell limits).


A again you did not adress it ...you told us what you claim you would do if it were changed .... 25 shell limit is intended to reduce shooting at out of range birds .... why is there a rule at all ? you say that nothing will keep people from sky busting .... 100 shells in a 4 man blind tells me they could shoot at anything that flies .... i have seen it ... so your telling me if you only took 12 shells out with you you wouldn't be more selective? You guys and your can't get 9 birds with a 25 shells .... i have seen it where 9 birds didn't set their wings to kand in the entire mgt unit during the hunt ....how bout you can take as many birds as you want with 12 shells


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

PM had a push of birds come in on Friday and leave Saturday. No one got to hunt those birds, at least in the draw units.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Muskegon used to be 15 shells and on the right day you would get your four mallards and 2 geese and gave a good chance at an oddball duck or two. Honestly, since the zones are dry and so big, if we sailed a duck, we didn't follow it down or try to swat it when it landed. We'd save the shells and chase them down by foot. Don't have that ootion in the flooded corn. Anything falling or landing with its head up is getting unloaded at.


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

By the way .... the printed material handed out by the state shows 18 shell limit for both PM. And Harsens


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## TNL (Jan 6, 2005)

Hmm. Must be getting towards the end of duck season. I'm a less rules guy, not more.

Personally, I'm good with the managed area rules except one, MWW only hunts 2 days a week. One hunt on Tuesdays and the other am/pm hunt Sat. They keep saying we want more participation, yet the opportunity just isn't there. I know most of the guys hunting either of those days would hunt Sunday as well. Maybe through in a Thursday too. Add in youth and Veteran hunts (which I think is a nice idea, but maybe combine them), and the opportunity is further limited. A guy isn't going to drive across the state for sloppy seconds.

As for 25 shells, it's a good idea and I hope it's at all managed areas. First, it's easy to remember and quantify; a box of shells, simple as that. Second, it gives you a legitimate chance at a limit if that's your thing. I've been shooting competitively for a couple decades and run straights all the time. Hitting a live bird on the wing is a totally different thing. Third, 25 is a reasonable number to say hey, if you can't shoot a few birds with that many shells, then maybe time at the range would be better spent than time in the blind. It also then frees up the zone for someone else. I've packed up a couple times over the course of 40 years with an empty shell holder and nothing to show for it.


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## blklab (Jan 5, 2011)

You start reducing the shell limit then you'll have guys not cleaning up there own crippled birds losing even more birds.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

No rule or reg will fix stupid. We all know this. Just look at the 2nd amendment. 

I’m happy with the amount of single zones at Shi. It worked out ok for me this year. Hell, @Shiawassee_Kid, how many times did you hunt as a single, have to pass and still shoot your limit?


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Huntingguy23 said:


> By the way .... the printed material handed out by the state shows 18 shell limit for both PM. And Harsens


PM is now 25 shells. I gues they couldn’t enforce it at 18 shells so might as well make it 25.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

There's a push to standardize the rules that could be commonized. Hence the shell limit change. Why PM stayed with shot size 1 or smaller is beyond me.

The PM veterans hunt at MWW had three vets then four second draw parties. So stand by was draw 8. There were 10 fields holding birds the night before. A zone that shot 12 geese that morning was on the board after the draw. I think the pm youth hunt had fewer youths than that. (should we not see youths at all the draws, not just the special ones?) I'll go to MWW (110 miles one way including scouting) or Shiawasee (140 miles one way) solo after the draw and pick a stand by zone. Shot many limits at MWW doing that, usually in some obscure zone that no one scouted that may only hold enough birds for a single Hunter. Really all I need us a flock or two to close and I'm happy.








Everybody else chased ducks that morning. Fine by me 4A no one else within three miles of me. One flock two shots and done. Ran to Pentwater grabbed the kayak and hit Hamlin only to miss four buffies in a row, all feet down.


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

Just curious .... i see you do alot of homework...... but how did you know "a field that shot 12 geese that morning was still on the board in the PM ?


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

T


blklab said:


> You start reducing the shell limit then you'll have guys not cleaning up there own crippled birds losing even more birds.


That is neither ethical nor logical .... why would you save a shell for a chance at a bird in flight over a guaranteed kill of a cripple ?


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## blklab (Jan 5, 2011)

Why would they shoot birds at 50 yds over cattails with little chance of finding them. You can't fix stupid! 

Bring back dog zones, USUALLY guys that hunt with dogs are a little bit better hunters and that should be encouraged.


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

craigrh13 said:


> PM is now 25 shells. I gues they couldn’t enforce it at 18 shells so might as well make it 25.


So what you are saying is 25 is not enforceable either ... and ALL the "rules" at the Mgt areas that are different from actual Michigan or Federal laws are just voluntary? So a CO could not write a ticket if you brought 2 boxes of shells ? And you could not be ticketed for using spinner decoys if it does nor violate state or federal law ?


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Huntingguy23 said:


> T
> 
> That is neither ethical nor logical .... why would you save a shell for a chance at a bird in flight over a guaranteed kill of a cripple ?


Happens more than you think and reducing the shell limit will only make it worse.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

i answered it...you aren't paying attention and don't want to hear the truth. so i will say it again. 15 shells and its not worth the travel out there. keep in mind we're not fish point. It takes a pretty big effort to motor 2.5 miles to a field, setup, stash boat..and then hunt. you limit me to 15 shells...im out. won't hunt no more or will travel to bay. I watched a whole room of 100 people vote on this issue....and all voted the same (it was like 97-3).

i'm known (i think) for not shooting long. there was 3-4 times where i was down half my shell belt in the first 10 minutes of my hunt...maybe had 3 birds in the bag. mainly due to cripple swats (we have that thing called buckwheat here...and you don't let the bird make it to the buckwheat). 2 passes of more birds and i was out of shells. mainly teal and more water swats. but i left with 4 birds. no more shells. i had a good time. 15 shells and my hunt woulda been 5 minutes long. lol. 

why would u be an advocate to make my hunt 5 minutes long...why? why and how do you think limiting to 15 shells only makes people take better shots and not skybust? your logic is so narrow minded....like you don't care what other possibilities you are limiting...just the 1.

i would also suspect when it comes to 2nd amendment your pretty ok with "sensible gun control" to limit mass shootings too aren't ya?


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## Hammertime989 (Oct 17, 2009)

I would like to see, at Shi Flats, one zone in every field for singles. Or open 9-14 to singles. Also ,
One box of shells is easy to remember and I believe there would be many more cripples not chased down, with a less than 25 shell limit.


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## Duck-Hunter (Mar 31, 2005)

Huntingguy23 said:


> You only bring up things that support your arguement but ignore the rest ... i was told there has been no tickets written or any enforcement effort at all to enforce the 25 shell limit .... and you seem to have all the answers but still have yet to state your opinion on why there is a shell limit in the first place


I dunno how many times you've been to a managed area but every time I've been checked the first thing they ask is how many times you shot in your hunt. Then ask how many bird you got, then ask you to pull out your shells and they count them...

That was also when it was 18 shells not 25 either way I'm sure they still follow the same protocol. It's an easy ticket to hand out. I've seen guys come back to the parking lot with 2 birds in hand and get handed a ticket for having too many shells.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Duck-Hunter said:


> I dunno how many times you've been to a managed area but every time I've been checked the first thing they ask is how many times you shot in your hunt. Then ask how many bird you got, then ask you to pull out your shells and they count them...
> 
> That was also when it was 18 shells not 25 either way I'm sure they still follow the same protocol. It's an easy ticket to hand out. I've seen guys come back to the parking lot with 2 birds in hand and get handed a ticket for having too many shells.


yeah i haven't quite figured out where this cat hunts, lol. we get checked for shell counts all the f'n time. where is this magical SGA that allows you to ignore the shell limits? haha


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## charcoal300zxtt (Sep 8, 2011)

Huntingguy23 said:


> My grandson is about your age And i am starting to doubt how smart you really are to insult someone's intelligence who you have never met and leave such a large internet footprint and easy follow and then leave your rig in a parking lot unattended while hunting ......


Get caught messing with peoples rigs and your gonna need that pension check to buy new dentures.


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

eye-sore said:


> I gotta ask....why are the regular hunters at the bingos always demonized? Its not a big boys club. we do our scouting and have an intimate knowledge of the land and what the birds do.i get the same draw chance as anybody. We are not the ones skybusting or calling at birds before they enter the field or hunting out of the boat. As far as cover goes dont be a lazy a$$ and take the boat to the end of your strip. There should be a chunk on each end of the strip already knocked down to hide a boat..everybody is either too lazy to walk it down or my favorite they think boats dont scare ducks. lmao. Thats 3/4s of the problem.the birds are educated before they even get a chance to be skybusted. Add to that terrible, loud calling and thats what happens. Unless your gonna go stalin style we will never be able to legislate hunting smarts. And to op......Instead of criticizing us, ask our advice.at the flats vic or barry will go out of their way to make sure you have a enjoyable hunt. Im sure other managers do the same. dont bite the hands that feed you.especially in your 1st season.


My eyesight is plenty good .... in most of the places i have hunted i could see 10 plus zones and hear twice as many ..... i can see birds in the air for miles .. i see how they react to many peoples calls and spreads i have seen and heard thousands of shots many many long shots and have seen less than 10 total birds fall .... i have seen birds circle around my spread only to be shot at by another zone at 70 yds that didn't care to let them work .... i have seen 100s of empty 3 1/2 in shells floating in flooded corn .... seems so obvious there has got to be a better way .... so no one on this website skybusts ?


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Huntingguy23 said:


> You only bring up things that support your arguement but ignore the rest ... i was told there has been no tickets written or any enforcement effort at all to enforce the 25 shell limit .... and you seem to have all the answers but still have yet to state your opinion on why there is a shell limit in the first place


go back and read post #132 carefully. best answer in this whole thread. thats my opinion...so now you have no reason to keep saying "you never answered it"...like a broken record...really move on 1 trick pony.

i've pretty much debunked every ludicrous claim you have with logic. whats next, gonna suggest we ban hunting backside of corn at all areas? or how about no hens. strict drakes only policy? ban 10 gages? limit to 20gage only maybe? shot size max #4's? i mean i'm sure you got some great new ideas for us.


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## AaronJohn (Oct 18, 2015)

This thread went from 100 to 100x1000000000 real quick saw it coming. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


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## Hammertime989 (Oct 17, 2009)

One last note- back in the day the limit was 3 ducks 2 geese and 25 shells at Shi Flats. That is 5 shots per bird.

Today the limit is 9 birds and 25 shells at Shi Flats. 2.78 shots per bird.

Skybusting happens because guys want to shoot at something, since they put in the effort to get up at 4 am and haul everything into the marsh. Only when guys admit that their spread, calling etc.. is not working , and let the birds pass by, and drop into the zones that have gotten it right that day will sky busting end.


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

I am glad to hear that shell counts are checked ... did not know that .. have never been checked any of the 6 times out so far ... my favorite hint was at SHI.... we had a long walk but it was entertaining to see a 20 ft boat going the same speed as a me in the ditch beside me only to pull ahead for good when he had trouble with the winch to get over the **** ... seemed like alot of work just to set up 300 ft past a walk in 90 yr old .... he skybusted ... we beat him back to the parking lot as well with 1 less duck than we ... so much for Locals ....My favorite response so far is "the Mgt areas are fine the way they are .... but i don't go anymore cause they are not enjoyable.


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## Hammertime989 (Oct 17, 2009)

Huntingguy23 said:


> I am glad to hear that shell counts are checked ... did not know that .. have never been checked any of the 6 times out so far ... my favorite hint was at SHI.... we had a long walk but it was entertaining to see a 20 ft boat going the same speed as a me in the ditch beside me only to pull ahead for good when he had trouble with the winch to get over the **** ... seemed like alot of work just to set up 300 ft past a walk in 90 yr old .... he skybusted ... we beat him back to the parking lot as well with 1 less duck than we ... so much for Locals ....My favorite response so far is "the Mgt areas are fine the way they are .... but i don't go anymore cause they are not enjoyable.


I have seen crazy big boats out there also. Hint- MOST locals hunt with light weight and basic rigs.


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

Hammertime989 said:


> I have seen crazy big boats out there also. Hint- MOST locals hunt with light weight and basic rigs.


Point taken .... Funny thing is ... i have hunted 6 times shot 12shells brought home 9 birds left no cripples , picked up all my empties... walked in and left no cover damage and i am the ******* for suggesting you all shoot too much


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

This has got to be the most ridiculous but entertaining thread in a while.


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## jwinks (Mar 20, 2014)

Huntingguy23 said:


> Point taken .... Funny thing is ... i have hunted 6 times shot 12shells brought home 9 birds left no cripples , picked up all my empties... walked in and left no cover damage and i am the ******* for suggesting you all shoot too much


Be honest, How many shells did you bring with you?


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

jwinks said:


> Be honest, How many shells did you bring with you?


He seems to think that because he can do something than everyone else can. He just doesn’t get it. You tell him that 5 shells per bird is the average and he still keeps bumping his gums about 12 shells.


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## jwinks (Mar 20, 2014)

craigrh13 said:


> He seems to think that because he can do something than everyone else can. He just doesn’t get it. You tell him that 5 shells per bird is the average and he still keeps bumping his gums about 12 shells.


I once killed two specks with one shot. Let’s make the shell limit 3 shells.


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## Hammertime989 (Oct 17, 2009)

Huntingguy23 said:


> Point taken .... Funny thing is ... i have hunted 6 times shot 12shells brought home 9 birds left no cripples , picked up all my empties... walked in and left no cover damage and i am the ******* for suggesting you all shoot too much


LIke most waterfowlers with decades of experience- I have shot very well and very poor. I always take my 25 shells with me. Strong winds play a huge factor in shooting success.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Huntingguy23 said:


> I am glad to hear that shell counts are checked ... did not know that .. have never been checked any of the 6 times out so far ... my favorite hint was at SHI.... we had a long walk but it was entertaining to see a 20 ft boat going the same speed as a me in the ditch beside me only to pull ahead for good when he had trouble with the winch to get over the **** ... seemed like alot of work just to set up 300 ft past a walk in 90 yr old .... he skybusted ... we beat him back to the parking lot as well with 1 less duck than we ... so much for Locals ....My favorite response so far is "the Mgt areas are fine the way they are .... but i don't go anymore cause they are not enjoyable.


well lets just take 1 big lie at a time here.

in 40 years of hunting the flats, i've never seen a 20' boat pull a dike out there. ever. but you have hunted 6 times (and guessing less at shiawassee) and you have witnessed a slob hunter pulling a dike in a 20' boat. which you then to brag about how you walked faster than he motored and pulled the dike.

please tell me more of your expeditions...i want to hear more.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

jwinks said:


> I once killed two specks with one shot. Let’s make the shell limit 3 shells.


I’ve had days I couldn’t miss and then days I couldn’t hit water if I fell out of a boat.


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## natureboy2534 (Dec 11, 2013)

Get caught messing with peoples rigs and your gonna need that pension check to buy new dentures.

If I could like a post more than once, I would limit out on likes...Nothing but the TRUTH on that post..


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## Bigeejakes (Nov 11, 2011)

Huntingguy23 said:


> Point taken .... Funny thing is ... i have hunted 6 times shot 12shells brought home 9 birds left no cripples , picked up all my empties... walked in and left no cover damage and i am the ******* for suggesting you all shoot too much


I'm thinking you must be frustrated... That is a lot of hunts for 9 birds. 

I've hunted shiawassee 7 times this year and brought home 28 birds... No idea how many shells... But I don't have a problem saying I take shots longer than most, but I also choose those shots carefully. If birds are working, I let them work, even if it is to another field. If I have a bird at 50 yards that just flared because another field shot, I take that shot because I know I can, and because he's bugging out anyway.

If a group in front of me shoots at a bird that then sails directly over me at 45 yards, I finish it off... 
(Before you ask I've had 1 cripple I couldn't retrieve, and it wasn't a long shot, it was just a crossing shot that got hit with the Fringe of the pattern)

One thing I will never do is purposely set up to shoot swing birds. 100% rudest thing you can do in a managed area, and I have left early and upset in the past when I've had it done to me, luckily that was only once, a few years ago.

I understand and respect the feet down only mentality. But I invest a lot of money and time making sure I'm the best shot I can be. If it's a good shot, and I'm not messing up another group then I take it.

As a newbie you probably would call me a skybuster, that's fine.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## deadduck365 (Nov 5, 2010)

smh


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## blklab (Jan 5, 2011)

This wetland wonders thing sure has brought out best types of people.


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## deadduck365 (Nov 5, 2010)

How far is a skybust? If there is a mallard 50 yds up and a teal 10 ft in front of me and I shoot and kill the teal, you think I shot at the mallard?


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## deadduck365 (Nov 5, 2010)

If you hunt harsens there are only 2 places you can visually see the next groups spread from your zone. Both are in the marsh. You don’t have a boat so I know you haven’t been to either. You don’t know what is in somebody else’s spread.


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## deadduck365 (Nov 5, 2010)

Stupid phone. Double posting.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Here's an idea on how to do better at the managed units: kindly and humbly ask for information from the resident sages instead of attacking them.

Shell limit used to be 12 at Fennville and guys would shoot at anything. Granted that used to be a one goose and done unit.

CO's at Pointe Mouille would make you take your waders off and shake them out. Sucks to bunt in wet feet as you stand in your socks in the rain, but they didn't care. That said, I've hunted Fennville and MWW over 50 times each, the other units probably 2 dozen combined. I've been checked in the field once at MWW and in the parking lot once there and once at PM.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Before we say "ban all spinners" don't forget that west Michigan exists, has two managed areas that are not flooded, and that spinners work very well there for those that know how to use them.


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

I can't tell you how much i enjoy being called a liar .... while i did not have a tape measure out there were 3 large men and a dog in that boat i "raced" to zone 14ish off Prior rd i believe ... i don't have it memorized or care to ... we both got to the parking lot at the same time... and i left for gome before they did and took home 1 more duck than them .... need dates ...i can look it up ...i just love people who think they know more than the people who were actually there


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

Took your advice and did a "search" on past threads. During the dates that Harsens had a 18 shell limit the keyword "skybusting" appeared 67% less in the Harsens thread compared to shiawassee in that same time period .... whie the keyword "limit" showed up 17% less in Harsens, the Keyword "enjoyable" was used 87% more


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## deadduck365 (Nov 5, 2010)

Huntingguy23 said:


> Took your advice and did a "search" on past threads. During the dates that Harsens had a 18 shell limit the keyword "skybusting" appeared 67% less in the Harsens thread compared to shiawassee in that same time period .... whie the keyword "limit" showed up 17% less in Harsens, the Keyword "enjoyable" was used 87% more


Do another thing. Look up the kill counts and hunter numbers for each area for the last 18 years. Harsens was more enjoyable when there were less skybusters due to less people. Michigan outdoors did a show and business picked up. I remember being less parties and less skybusting due to the type of people hunting. “Good ole boys” letting the birds work.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Gordon MacQuarie wrote about skybysting. He stopped writing what, like 75 years ago, and he didn't hunt managed areas. This is nothing new.

Zone 14 is off Wahl road. Prior is the 50's and 60's. You want to state facts about skybusting at Harsens using key words without any hope of establishing correlation or causation, however you don't even care, by your admission, to know where you hunted, I have a hard time believing your "facts".


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

I love people who have hunted Shiawassee once or twice and won't listen to the opinion of the guy who lives there, has hunted it a dozen times this year and a couple hundred times in his life, and kills birds there at an average per hunt that's triple or more the average for the whole unit. Again, you should be an ally and not an adversary to such people.

Did you know he also owns a place in North Dakota?

I think I'm going to put my 215 in at Hulien and set a record for the fastest time to the 40's. She'll go 53 with the right prop.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> I'm glad you think you have the solution to it



We both know the "solution" to sky busting, but there is NO possible way to pass a regulation to make it happen. The problem is there are just too many out there that *have* to get birds. To that end they will do what ever it takes to "extend" the range at which they can kill.

I would like to see a study that outlines kill rates, crippling rates etc, based on distance. I would bet things really start to get "bad" at around 35 yards and beyond. My guess would be the "sweet spot" would fall in between 25 and 35 yards. 

The "solution" is to let 'em work. Don't shoot until you see them blink.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

LOL. Man you can tell the season is winding down when a silly ass original post like this goes almost 200 posts!!! where's that damn popcorn eating emoji???


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> Gordon MacQuarie wrote about skybysting. He stopped writing what, like 75 years ago, and he didn't hunt managed areas. This is nothing new.
> 
> Zone 14 is off Wahl road. Prior is the 50's and 60's. You want to state facts about skybusting at Harsens using key words without any hope of establishing correlation or causation, however you don't even care, by your admission, to know where you hunted, I have a hard time believing your "facts".


You are surprised that an old man would forget the name of a road that i was on once ? ... i know what i have seen with my own eyes on 6 hunts ... while it is true i can not "see" the other hunters spread i can watch the reaction of the birds in flight and know where they are ... i have "seen" literally hundreds of other hunters shots ... i have seen less than 10 birds fall ..... i myself have taken 12 shots and killed just as many ..numbers don't lie


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

I walked out of NP and got ripped for "flaring" all the birds. The guys in the parking lot saw me miss a high mallard while they were leisurely getting ready. After that I killed the next 6 birds that I shot at and my daughter got one as well. Most were below the corn. 15-20 teal would come in, one or two would break off and decoy and get below the corn, and I'd shoot one, and the guys next to me would see all the birds that flared. They were kind of surprised when my daughter and I had a pile of birds; I was limited out by four and playing guide for her. Yeah, those were all the 20 yard singles I was folding that you could not see. Itching was really skybusting and flaring all the birds, why would 15-20 teal come in and I only shot once?


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## Duck-Hunter (Mar 31, 2005)

This thread has ran its course..


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