# Another (3) dog killed by wolves today!



## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

http://www.uppermichiganssource.com/m/news/story?id=901439#.UZ508u5Z7lg


Post your concern and put the antis in their place. 

2014 Ballot: YES for Conservation. No for Out Of State Money!!!


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## MuddyPaws1 (Apr 7, 2011)

Sad but a dog is just another food group. Leaving a dog out overnight, chained in wolf country seems a bit irresponsible.


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## North wind (Oct 19, 2009)

You almost sound like one of them Muddy. I have no problems having wolves here but it's a different deal when your dealing with them and they are only managed "after" they are causing problems.


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## Waz_51 (Jan 10, 2010)

north wind said:


> you almost sound like one of them muddy. I have no problems having wolves here but it's a different deal when your dealing with them and they are only managed "after" they are causing problems.


like!


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## kingfisher 11 (Jan 26, 2000)

MuddyPaws1 said:


> Sad but a dog is just another food group. Leaving a dog out overnight, chained in wolf country seems a bit irresponsible.


You sound just like the people who claim a woman deserved to be raped, just because she was in the wrong place. Not the fault of the criminal.


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## MuddyPaws1 (Apr 7, 2011)

kingfisher 11 said:


> You sound just like the people who claim a woman deserved to be raped, just because she was in the wrong place. Not the fault of the criminal.



Whatever. Your analogy sucks. I'm not blaming the dog. I'm blaming the owner of the dog.

I live in wolf land. I don't chain my dog up and leave it out overnight. 

That would be stupid. 

I don't leave the chickens out overnight. 

That would be stupid.

All kinds of things want to eat them chickens. I put them away. Nothing eats them except me.

Why blame a wolf when all it did was take the bait? 

It just amazes me that people move to where there are wild animals and think common sense doesn't have a place in their lives. If you do stupid things, then there are consequences. I don't stick my hand in boiling water, that would be stupid. But if I did, and I knew it was boiling and did it anyway then it's not the fault of the hot water, it's my fault for doing something stupid.

Why in the hell would someone that lives in a high wolf population area chain his dog up, leave it unsupervised, overnight in a non secure place outside? 

That's irresponsible. And a typical problem with today's society. Let's NOT blame the person that acted irresponsibly, lets blame someone or something else. Let's not take responsibility for our own actions.  Sounds like an Obama speech.


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

Moving the dog in doors temporarily is a great short term solution. As far as I'm concerned that's as far as it goes. Allowing them to come back and repeatably make a meal out of your guard dogs or potentially your children is asinine. A wolf season which brings their numbers down where people as a whole can leave the dogs chained up as guard dogs is the solution. To use Muddy's solution methodology long term would tell me to board up by my front door and only use the back door in the event bees make a nest in my front porch. Sorry, that's not how I or most want to live. The last I heard, humans have dominion over wild animals.

2014 Ballot: YES for Conservation. No for Out Of State Money!!!


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## HarleyDHawger (Nov 30, 2005)

Why blame a wolf when all it did was take the bait? 

It just amazes me that people move to where there are wild animals and think common sense doesn't have a place in their lives. If you do stupid things, then there are consequences. I don't stick my hand in boiling water, that would be stupid. But if I did, and I knew it was boiling and did it anyway then it's not the fault of the hot water, it's my fault for doing something stupid.

I agree with you Muddy, If someone pet is chained up in an area with predators the predators will do what nature has taught them to do. Keeping the Wolves population down would help keep them away from human habitat and they'll migrate to an area less dangerous to them. But what do we do next when someone fluffy get taken by a hawk or eagle. do we open a hunting season on them too. I personally think if you present your pet as bait to a predator don't be surprised when that bait is taken. Then go and get that sign to wear that says stupid. yes heres your sign.


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## North wind (Oct 19, 2009)

The people aren't moving to where the wolves live, the wolves are moving to where people live...


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

If you believe the subject matter is all about a predator indiscriminately finding a food source like a raptor would in your scenario, then don't be so quick to hand out that sign after taking it off your own neck. To use Muddy's words, " your analogy sucks."

Your hypothetical analogy hardly takes into consideration the articles facts and main points. This was not the first time a dog was killed in that yard nor in that general area. Hawks are not wolves. Hawks do not seek out and kill dogs as part of a ritual to eliminate them as competition. Hawks don't even do that with their own kind. 

Wolves, however, do alot of things that make them the top predator in their environment. Many things that no other animals that you will become exposed to in the wild do, which makes them extremely dangerous when food supplies become low and competition for it fierce. 

I don't think your compassion for the dogs owner will have any comfort in the future to someone else should a small child be the next victum. Will they get that same sign from you too?



2014 Ballot: YES for Conservation. No for Out Of State Money!!!


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## bowhunter42 (Aug 22, 2012)

Easy fix, aim 2" up and over from rear leg. Ya know a warning shot thats gonna sting.
Btw muddy, go back to la la land and chasing the purple dragon... the dnr planted these wolves, no person moved into there territory. And also these are timberwolves.. Not native to michigan. Maybe we should chain you to a tree in the up, defenseless. Except that big sign....

Poppin tags!


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## MuddyPaws1 (Apr 7, 2011)

Seaarkshooter said:


> IThis was not the first time a dog was killed in that yard


If that is true, then either the owner is retarded or he is putting dogs out there on purpose in order to incite a wolf attack.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

bowhunter42 said:


> .......... the dnr planted these wolves...........


?? I was thinking that they migrated here on there own. Not a big deal either way......just would like that cleared up if anyone knows for sure.

L & O


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## MuddyPaws1 (Apr 7, 2011)

Seaarkshooter said:


> I don't think your compassion for the dogs owner will have any comfort in the future to someone else should a small child be the next victum. Will they get that same sign from you too?


Do you chain your small children out in the yard, unprotected, in wolf territory, at night?


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## MuddyPaws1 (Apr 7, 2011)

bowhunter42 said:


> Easy fix, aim 2" up and over from rear leg. Ya know a warning shot thats gonna sting.
> Btw muddy, go back to la la land and chasing the purple dragon... the dnr planted these wolves, no person moved into there territory. And also these are timberwolves.. Not native to michigan. Maybe we should chain you to a tree in the up, defenseless. Except that big sign....
> 
> Poppin tags!


Isn't that adult of you. Is that how you are going to voice your support? No wonder the anti's gain ground.


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## MuddyPaws1 (Apr 7, 2011)

Liver and Onions said:


> ?? I was thinking that they migrated here on there own. Not a big deal either way......just would like that cleared up if anyone knows for sure.
> 
> L & O





bowhunter42 said:


> And also these are timberwolves.. Not native to michigan


Grey wolf IS a Timber wolf.



Wolves are not planted. They have been relocated though.

Gray wolves once existed throughout Michigan; however, removal began shortly after European settlement. Wolves were removed primarily through poisoning between 1838 and 1960. Within a few years after their protection under the Endangered Species Act, wolves began immigrating from Wisconsin, and in 1991 a wolf pack was confirmed to be reproducing in Michigan. According to federal recovery criteria, wolves in Michigan are considered biologically recovered and were delisted from the endangered species list in January 2012.
http://www.wolf.org/wolves/learn/wow/regions/united_states/Michigan.asp

Michigan has two species of wolves: the gray wolf (_Canis lupus_) and the eastern wolf (_Canis lycaon_). Until recently, it was thought that all wolves in Michigan were gray wolves. However, two independent labs in Ontario and Oregon have analyzed genes from wolves in Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota and found two distinct species. The two wolf species do form gray/eastern wolf hybrids.
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12145_12205-256981--,00.html


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

MuddyPaws1 said:


> Do you chain your small children out in the yard, unprotected, in wolf territory, at night?


No, but plenty of people send their kids down the driveway or street at o' dark thirty in the morning to wait for the school bus. Is that deserving of a card and your long range sharpshooting critiques as well?

Btw...three dogs were killed in a two week period and not all of them at night. 

2014 Ballot: YES for Conservation. No for Out Of State Money!!!


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## MuddyPaws1 (Apr 7, 2011)

One last thing that you guys seem to be assuming about me.

I am NOT anti hunting season for them. 

I am anti dumb-*****, leave your dog outside and blame it on the world so lets kill all the wolves.


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## MuddyPaws1 (Apr 7, 2011)

Seaarkshooter said:


> No, but plenty of people send their kids down the driveway or street at o' dark thirty in the morning to wait for the school bus. Is that deserving of a card and your long range sharpshooting critiques as well?
> 
> Btw...three dogs were killed in a two week period and not all of them at night.
> 
> 2014 Ballot: YES for Conservation. No for Out Of State Money!!!



Card?

long range sharpshooting critiques?

You lost me.


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

MuddyPaws1 said:


> One last thing that you guys seem to be assuming about me.
> 
> I am NOT anti hunting season for them.
> 
> I am anti dumb-*****, leave your dog outside and blame it on the world so lets kill all the wolves.


Then you must be your own worst enemy, because NOBODY said kill all the wolves in this thread. A fact you seem to be assuming no doubt.

2014 Ballot: YES for Conservation. No for Out Of State Money!!!


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

MuddyPaws1 said:


> Sad but a dog is just another food group. Leaving a dog out overnight, chained in wolf country seems a bit irresponsible.


Kinda sounds like I should bring my chickens inside at night to keep them away from the coyotes.:help:


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## bowhunter42 (Aug 22, 2012)

Planted/ transplanted it all ends in the same result if they're not controlled.
And muddybritches i was spot on about you. But don't look in the mirror

Poppin tags!


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

SBE II said:


> Kinda sounds like I should bring my chickens inside at night to keep them away from the coyotes.:help:


 
SBE II, you haven't killed every coyote in the county yet?!  

What are you waiting for?


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

Seaarkshooter said:


> SBE II, you haven't killed every coyote in the county yet?!
> 
> What are you waiting for?


Well, ya see I've been doing it all wrong..I've been bringing the chicken and fainting goats inside...I'm going to tie them out tonight, then I know dem coyotes are "about to do damage."

I prefer fainting goats, I scare them with the umbrella, and they knock out long enough for the coyotes to think its an easy meal..:coolgleam


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## Chrome Crazy (Nov 29, 2010)

MuddyPaws1 said:


> One last thing that you guys seem to be assuming about me.
> 
> I am NOT anti hunting season for them.
> 
> I am anti dumb-*****, leave your dog outside and blame it on the world so lets kill all the wolves.


Muddy,
Since I'm a dumb @ss, I might need your help here. Read a small story below, and you in all your wisdom come up with the proper answer to the current problem. 

Property has been owned by the same family since 1962. In 1962 the first family owner had placed a dog house out side so that the dog could let him know when someone was there. Please take note that there were no wolves then. 

The same was done by every family member since but in the past 10 years, now we have wolves. 

Does this mean the property owner needs to install a dog kennel? 
Ok, dog kennel installed. What happened next???? Wolves chewed through the wire on the dog kennel. (Wolves will chew through the wire on a kennel in no time flat, dogs also can and will chew through them). End result? Dead Dog, same as if the dog was on a chain. Impossible you say.... Its already happened in the UP, Minn, and Canada. 

So I'm guessing this property owner in the UP will need to replace their outdoor dogs with inside dogs? Maybe all UP property owners should sell their outside dogs! 
Hell, maybe the state should ban all dogs in the UP. That way no dumb @ss would ever put their dog in / near a place where there might be wolves. 

Sorry this might be over the top but the #$%@ing problem isn't dog owners its the #$%@ing anti's and people that won't stand up for thier fellow sportsman with outdoor hunting dogs that can't be placed instead the home.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

I live in the EUP unfortunately not too close to where they will be having a wolf season. I have confronted wolves a number of times not counting the many times that they have seen me and I did not see them. If a wolf is bold enough to kill a 150 pound dog within a short distance of a residence then it will also kill a 50 pound child. For all practical purposes they have no fear of humans or dogs. Two years ago while ice fishing a wolf about 100 pounds came out of the woods onto the ice about 100 yards from 3 of us. We yelled at it and it just looked at us like we were going to be its next meal. This wolf was approximately 200 yards from a bus stop. The DNR expects to kill 43 wolves during the wolf season and that is not even going to put a dent in the population. The people who live downstate and do not have to deal with wolves do not have a clue how dangerous these animals can be. Even if they are shot at they will show up 50 miles away the next day and become problem animals once again. When you live in wolf country which is the whole UP you don't know when or where they will show up. The pro wolf people who know absolutely nothing about wolves can do their thing and the yoopers will have their guns ready. If they are such a nice animal then the DNR should trap 300 of them and move them to Lansing.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

I like your opinion. I have a golden retriever that I refuse to take into the woods anymore the problem is that bad. I do not leave my vehicle when I am outside of the city limits without some sort of defensive weapon anymore. You may go months without seeing a wolf then when and where you least expect to see them, they will start showing up.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

You guys it's clear you're arguing with an anti...Don't waste your breathe..


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

SBE II said:


> Well, ya see I've been doing it all wrong..I've been bringing the chicken and fainting goats inside...I'm going to tie them out tonight, then I know dem coyotes are "about to do damage."
> 
> I prefer fainting goats, I scare them with the umbrella, and they knock out long enough for the coyotes to think its an easy meal..:coolgleam


 

SBE II, You know I support ya.  It's just that not all beginning sportsman taking up coyote hunting can distinguish well within the intent and meaning of our game laws. I hope to keep them on the right side of the fence til they can, that's all. Have at' em!


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

Seaarkshooter said:


> SBE II, You know I support ya.  It's just that not all beginning sportsman taking up coyote hunting can distinguish well within the intnet and meaning of our game laws. I hope to keep them on the right side of the fence til they can, that's all. Have at' em!


This time I didn't intend to dig at ya, was only meant for the guy that I'm questioning whether or not he's an anti.

You know my stance with yotes, but you also know I'm a huge waterfowl and turkey hunter...All yotes must die! Within how the law is written of course


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

Chrome Crazy said:


> Sorry this might be over the top but the #$%@ing problem isn't dog owners its the #$%@ing anti's and people that won't stand up for thier fellow sportsman with outdoor hunting dogs that can't be placed instead the home.


 
Well said Chrome. Those that can't seem to see there is a greater good within our current fight and generally continue to put support on the back burner for those that have to fight it regardless, are doomed to repeat the failures of the dove bill and more.


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## kingfisher 11 (Jan 26, 2000)

MuddyPaws1 said:


> Whatever. Your analogy sucks. I'm not blaming the dog. I'm blaming the owner of the dog.
> 
> I live in wolf land. I don't chain my dog up and leave it out overnight.
> 
> ...


I see your point but you do a poor job getting your point across. I would not let my pet be at risk either. But you are missing the point. You are just laying down and accepting the wolf and blaming peole who have lived a certain way. You ever wonder why our forefathers did the best they could to eliminate them? Sure seems like they were much smarter than we are. this in no means we should wipe them out. I would like to see the numbers where its rare to see a track or hear one.

You still want all the blame to be with the dog owners. Unless you keep your dog glued to the inside he is at risk. Now even a small child can't go out in his back yard and play in the sand box without fear they could be the first child killed by a wolf. I know it has not happened but would anyone dare leaving a young 5-7 year old in the back yard knowing a wolf is wondering around? I don't know about you, but I grew up in Northern MI and that is what we did. We all played outside all day at a early age, including the pets. Now because some yuppies out of state think we are killing the family dog. They want to block any action to reduce them. Lets compare them to a coyote, both are similar yet its acceptable to reduce the populations. Uncontrolled they are a menance.


I have hunted Saskatchewan quite a bit. I have seen areas where packs lived.


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## North wind (Oct 19, 2009)

Seaarkshooter said:


> Then you must be your own worst enemy, because NOBODY said kill all the wolves in this thread. A fact you seem to be assuming no doubt.


Typical... As soon as managing is mentioned it turns into all the wolves will be killed. Short of aerial gunning and poison, you couldn't kill them all now.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Seaarkshooter said:


> .......... This was not the first time a dog was killed in that yard nor in that general area. .............


For some reason I am not able to see the article on my computer.
Are you saying that this is the 2nd dog that was tied out and lost in the same yard ? The first time was not enough of a lesson for that individual ?

L & O


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## North wind (Oct 19, 2009)

Liver and Onions said:


> For some reason I am not able to see the article on my computer.
> Are you saying that this is the 2nd dog that was tied out and lost in the same yard ? The first time was not enough of a lesson for that individual ?
> 
> L & O


Here's the links to all three in order...

http://www.uppermichiganssource.com/news/story.aspx?id=891660#.UaesB0C1GjI

http://www.uppermichiganssource.com/news/story.aspx?id=897996#.UaesC0C1GjI

http://www.uppermichiganssource.com/news/story.aspx?id=901439#.UaesDkC1GjI


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## Chris Raymond (Jul 15, 2004)

MuddyPaws1 said:


> Whatever. Your analogy sucks. I'm not blaming the dog. I'm blaming the owner of the dog.
> 
> I live in wolf land. I don't chain my dog up and leave it out overnight.
> 
> ...


These were sled dogs and the owner was in the process of building a fence (it was partially constructed at the time the second dog was killed). Nobody is going to bring a string of sled dogs into their house for obvious reasons.


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## 68w (Jan 19, 2012)

Chrome Crazy said:


> Muddy,
> Since I'm a dumb @ss, I might need your help here. Read a small story below, and you in all your wisdom come up with the proper answer to the current problem.
> 
> Property has been owned by the same family since 1962. In 1962 the first family owner had placed a dog house out side so that the dog could let him know when someone was there. Please take note that there were no wolves then.
> ...


if the dog was left out to let the owner know when someone was in the yard, i would guess he was going ape **** when the wolfs were coming for him. so the owner didnt do his part to kill the wolf like he should have. im just saying. 
if wolfs can be kept in fenced in areas then why cant they be kept out of dog runs. 
and yes the wolf population has grown in the last few years. if we are going to keep living in the areas where they are we are going to have to adapt. yes hunts are a big part of keeping their numbers in check but common sense is still in order. take care of you animals. it is your job as a pet owner to keep them safe. 
dont get buthurt when someone is on your side as far as hunting them goes but also thinks we should take responsibility our own pet and or livestock.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Sounds to me like some folks contributing to this thread do not believe in the rights of the land owner to protect their property. And, faulting landowners who choose to tie out their dogs by insinuating they don't care about them. With that sort of mentality, the folks in the south end of Ontonago County ought to be bringing their cows into the house when they're calfing so the wolves do not start eating the calves while they are still in the birth canal.


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## 68w (Jan 19, 2012)

that is not what im saying at all. if you keep a watch dog in your yard then when it is barking check on it. i cant believe a dog being killed by a wolf just quietly sat there while it happened. im saying look after you animals. dont get it twisted, i am all for a hunting season.
i live in the city. so you know what i lock up my chickens,put my dogs in the house and lock my doors at night. i left my car unlocked 1 night and someone got into it and made a mess of my stuff. it was my fault.dont get me wrong if i found the bastard i would smack the **** out of him. but hay i left the door unlocked. 
what im saying is it is your job to take care of your ****. if you have a "watch dog"i your yard to let you know when something is in your yard then its on you to check when he is doing his job and letting you know something is right. 
stop labeling everyone who thinks you should be responsible for your pets as an anti.


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## tsr770 (Mar 3, 2010)

kingfisher 11 said:


> You ever wonder why our forefathers did the best they could to eliminate them? Sure seems like they were much smarter than we are.


That right there is how I feel about them, they we're eliminated for a reason... Like it or not



kingfisher 11 said:


> I know it has not happened but would anyone dare leaving a young 5-7 year old in the back yard knowing a wolf is wondering around? I don't know about you, but I grew up in Northern MI and that is what we did. We all played outside all day at a early age, including the pets.


I spent a lot of time roaming the woods around Germfask before I was big enough to carry a gun 20-25 years ago, I wouldn't be comfortable letting my kids do the same anymore. 
I think they would much rather we keep all of the kids inside, playing video games, eating anything that has been processed, and sucking on a energy drink, so that a pretty wolfie doesn't get hurt. Modern society at its finest!


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## North wind (Oct 19, 2009)

68w said:


> i live in the city.


Makes sense now. If you had your car in a garage it wouldn't have been broken into...


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## DIYsportsman (Dec 21, 2010)

umm there are thousands of dogs tied up outside in alaska... seems to be working there... maybe cause they manage wolves appropriately...

outside the cities in ak, who has indoor dogs? nobody...


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

North wind said:


> Makes sense now. If you had your car in a garage it wouldn't have been broken into...




Darn, North wind, I've been unable to post at work and waiting to be able to say what you just said for over an hour. You beat me to it! Lol

Somehow, I don't think he'll see the reasoning in that either. 

2014 Ballot: YES for Conservation. No for Out Of State Money!!!


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## 68w (Jan 19, 2012)

dont worry, i grew up on the family farm.


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## North wind (Oct 19, 2009)

68w, It's poor car ownership to leave your car outside unlocked and without an alarm. It should be in a locked garage with the alarm on. Your going to have to adapt and build a garage and get a car alarm... But I guess if you "smack the **** out of him", that will take care of the problem.


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

kingfisher 11 said:


> Now even a small child can't go out in his back yard and play in the sand box without fear they could be the first child killed by a wolf.


 Great post and good points, Kingfisher. 

However, if this did happen it would be the first to happen in Michigan, but not the first time in nearly happened in North America. A few years ago a small child was nearly killed on a beach on Lake Superior.

Needless to say, many people weren't aware of this in the many blogs and posts I have contributed to in the last 6 months on the subject and, often times, they think that it is a near impossibility to happen. I don't understand as to why many have to have a known record of something happening before its given consideration as being a credible threat and worth being proactive about.

The wait and see crowd has been more responsible for the damage to our economy in the last 10 years than any other single citizen mentality. Now, they seem to want to be in charge of how wolves are managed in the U.P. as well. 


2014 Ballot: YES for Conservation. No for Out Of State Money!!!


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## 68w (Jan 19, 2012)

it only happened 1 time. so get this; i owned my mistake and i lock my doors now.
why is it so hard for you people to see that we understand and support the need for a hunting season. with or without the dog killings. but if you live in an area with predators you need to do more to protect you pets. and if you dont want to do anymore than you have been doing, dont complain when something happens.


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## North wind (Oct 19, 2009)

Just because you lock your doors now, it doesn't mean it won't get broken into again... If it does, would you still say it's your fault when you could build a garage and get an alarm? Still poor car ownership leaving it outside unsupervised imo...


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Seaarkshooter said:


> ....... However, if this did happen it would be the first to happen in Michigan, but not the first time in nearly happened in North America. A few years ago a small child was nearly killed on a beach on Lake Ontario.
> ...........


Could you provide that story ? A Google search turned up nothing about that story, but the 2 deaths since 2000 due to wolf attacks are documented below.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/35913715/ns/us_news-life/t/fatal-wolf-attack-unnerves-alaska-village/

If you do a Google search about wolf attacks you will notice that a good number occur in Asia. Possible reason given.......wolves don't fear humans when they have no history with firearms.

L & O


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

Liver and Onions said:


> Could you provide that story ? A Google search turned up nothing about that story, but the 2 deaths since 2000 due to wolf attacks are documented below.
> 
> http://www.nbcnews.com/id/35913715/ns/us_news-life/t/fatal-wolf-attack-unnerves-alaska-village/
> 
> ...


Can be found here:http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/2006/articles09/six_injured_in_rare_wolf_attack.htm

Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, Canada - A lone wolf that attacked six people, including several young children, in a provincial park over the long weekend has tested negative for rabies, the Algoma Health Unit said yesterday.
The wolf, which has been blamed for *several separate attacks* Monday at the popular Katherine's Cove beach on Lake Superior was shot by park staff.
The wolf had a broken clavicle and tooth when it was shot following the attacks, *which may explain its abnormal behaviour*, said health unit inspector Bob Frattini.
*"Wolves work in packs and not individually, and it was probably ostracized,"* Frattini said.
The Canadian Food Inspection Agency plans to conduct further testing on the wolf's body to try and find other possible causes for the attacks, which left several families injured and badly shaken.
The attack on the Wright family occurred on Bathtub Island, a large rocky area within wading distance of the mainland and about 100 metres south of Katherine's Cove.
Brenda Wright, on a day trip with her sister-in-law, two children and their cousins, aged 10 and 13, said her family was probably attacked first. Park officials say they aren't sure about the order of the attacks.
Her son, Casey, 12, noticed a black, doglike animal running across the beach.
She said the animal nipped the ankle of her 13-year-old nephew, Jake, then clamped down on her son's buttock, carrying him about half a metre before dropping him and lunging at her.
The wolf's teeth tore into her hands and her leg as she fought back and the group raced into the shallow swimming area. Wright said the wolf followed them, this time going after Emily Travaglini-Wright, 14.
"(Emily) was a real fighter. . . She got mostly claws in her head and her arm," her mother said.








Emily Travaglini-Wright, 14, of Sault Ste. Marie, displays wounds she suffered while fighting off a wolf that attacked her and four other family members at Katherine's Cove beach in Lake Superior Provincial Park. Photo credit: Margaret Cameron-Mcqueen, the Canadian Press. http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/images/hs/hs1469793_1.jpg









Leah Morgan from Marathon, Ontario, was attacked by a wolf at Katherine's Cove, Lake Superior Provincial Park. She was with her grandparents who rescued her from the wolf as it tried to drag her away. Photo credit: Brenda Grundt, Wawa-News.Com. http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/images/hs/hs1469793_2.jpg
*Alerted by the screams, two strangers raced over and managed to scare off the wolf. As families hid in the trees, the wolf returned minutes later and rifled through their picnic stashes.*
For Jerry and Rachel Talbot, it started at around 4 p.m. The Wawa, Ontario, couple, on their way to a wedding in Sudbury, with granddaughters Leah, 3, and Madison, 5, pulled off Highway 17 for a quick swim at a popular picnic area in Lake Superior Provincial Park.
According to park staff, more than a dozen others were enjoying the end of the Labour Day weekend at Katherine's Cove when the Talbot family wandered onto the beach and began to remove their shoes.
Jerry Talbot noticed a black animal chasing a girl across the sand. Too slow for the girl, the animal veered off and grabbed a slower, smaller target: Leah.
It clamped its jaws around the blond toddler's left upper arm and began dragging her away from her grandmother and sister.
The girl was dragged about six metres before the wolf dropped her on her back, startled by the shrieks of her grandparents and those who had jumped in to help.
Leah started to run, but she was in sand and she was in shock.
The wolf grabbed the hood of the little girl's black jacket. This time, Rachel Talbot's advances and screams caused the wolf to drop the girl momentarily and she lunged forward, scooped up the child and raced to her vehicle. Jerry Talbot and Madison were close behind.


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## Nodakhtr (Jan 15, 2013)

Seaarkshooter said:


> Can be found here:http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/2006/articles09/six_injured_in_rare_wolf_attack.htm
> 
> Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, Canada - A lone wolf that attacked six people, including several young children, in a provincial park over the long weekend has tested negative for rabies, the Algoma Health Unit said yesterday.
> The wolf, which has been blamed for *several separate attacks* Monday at the popular Katherine's Cove beach on Lake Superior was shot by park staff.
> ...


 
You have made an excellent point here. Protect our families and hunting dogs. Carry in the UP and be prepared to take care of business. Lets drop off a pack of wolves at the PETA HQ, wolves would have a field day.


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## Swampfoot (Dec 19, 2008)

Seaarkshooter said:


> Can be found here:http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/2006/articles09/six_injured_in_rare_wolf_attack.htm
> 
> Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, Canada - A lone wolf that attacked six people, including several young children, in a provincial park over the long weekend has tested negative for rabies, the Algoma Health Unit said yesterday.
> The wolf, which has been blamed for *several separate attacks* Monday at the popular Katherine's Cove beach on Lake Superior was shot by park staff.
> ...


 I don't live in the UP,but have had some experience with wolves.The fella says "was probably ostracized". Ostracized. For those that don't understand what that means in the life of a wolf,I'll explain.When a male wolf decides to challenge the Alpha for lead of the pack,and subsequently gets his @ss kicked,if it isn't killed,it gets ostracized,kick out,cya later,don't come back. When that happens,what's the result? A lone wolf,PO'd,no territory of it's own,no stable food source.And in such a situation,what do you get? A single animal that is scientifically proven to be singularly more dangerous than an entire pack. For the anti's,go sit in the woods,enjoy your lunch,and wait for one of these to come along.We'll read about you in the papers,you won't be forgotten....neither will the wolf that ate ya.


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## Northwood lures (Jan 23, 2013)

North wind said:


> The people aren't moving to where the wolves live, the wolves are moving to where people live...


The wolves wouldn't even be there if it were not for people reintroducing them


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## Beaverhunter2 (Jan 22, 2005)

Northwood lures said:


> The wolves wouldn't even be there if it were not for people reintroducing them


The Great Lakes wolves were not reintroduced. The residual wolves in Northern Minnesota and Ontario reproduced and expanded their range. The DNR tried reintroducing a few wolves to the UP in the 60's. They all died. I saw some of the hides and skulls while I was at Tech.

In the Rockies, the USF&WS reintroduced wolves from Canada- over the objections of Montana, Wyoming, and Idaho. Of course the Feds know best! 

John


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## Northwood lures (Jan 23, 2013)

Beaverhunter2 said:


> *The Great Lakes wolves were not reintroduced. The residual wolves in Northern Minnesota and Ontario reproduced and expanded their range. The DNR tried reintroducing a few wolves to the UP in the 60's. They all died.* I saw some of the hides and skulls while I was at Tech.
> 
> In the Rockies, the USF&WS reintroduced wolves from Canada- over the objections of Montana, Wyoming, and Idaho. Of course the Feds know best!
> 
> John


Ah ha!. I didnt not realise that this was the case at all. I really did believe that these wolves were the ones from the reintroduction. Well color me wrong on that one


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## MuddyPaws1 (Apr 7, 2011)

SBE II said:


> Kinda sounds like I should bring my chickens inside at night to keep them away from the coyotes.:help:


I put mine away. 

Crap, the ***** kill more than the yotes.


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## MuddyPaws1 (Apr 7, 2011)

bowhunter42 said:


> Planted/ transplanted it all ends in the same result if they're not controlled.
> And muddybritches i was spot on about you. But don't look in the mirror
> 
> Poppin tags!


Spot on about what? And why so childish with the name calling?


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## MuddyPaws1 (Apr 7, 2011)

Chrome Crazy said:


> Muddy,
> Since I'm a dumb @ss, I might need your help here. Read a small story below, and you in all your wisdom come up with the proper answer to the current problem.
> 
> Property has been owned by the same family since 1962. In 1962 the first family owner had placed a dog house out side so that the dog could let him know when someone was there. Please take note that there were no wolves then.
> ...


In the 60's they still rode horses to school up here. Times change.


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## MuddyPaws1 (Apr 7, 2011)

Robert Holmes said:


> I live in the EUP unfortunately not too close to where they will be having a wolf season. I have confronted wolves a number of times not counting the many times that they have seen me and I did not see them. If a wolf is bold enough to kill a 150 pound dog within a short distance of a residence then it will also kill a 50 pound child. For all practical purposes they have no fear of humans or dogs. Two years ago while ice fishing a wolf about 100 pounds came out of the woods onto the ice about 100 yards from 3 of us. We yelled at it and it just looked at us like we were going to be its next meal. This wolf was approximately 200 yards from a bus stop. The DNR expects to kill 43 wolves during the wolf season and that is not even going to put a dent in the population. The people who live downstate and do not have to deal with wolves do not have a clue how dangerous these animals can be. Even if they are shot at they will show up 50 miles away the next day and become problem animals once again. When you live in wolf country which is the whole UP you don't know when or where they will show up. The pro wolf people who know absolutely nothing about wolves can do their thing and the yoopers will have their guns ready. If they are such a nice animal then the DNR should trap 300 of them and move them to Lansing.


So because you are scared of them, more should be killed?


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## MuddyPaws1 (Apr 7, 2011)

kingfisher 11 said:


> I see your point but you do a poor job getting your point across. I would not let my pet be at risk either. But you are missing the point. You are just laying down and accepting the wolf and blaming peole who have lived a certain way. You ever wonder why our forefathers did the best they could to eliminate them? Sure seems like they were much smarter than we are. this in no means we should wipe them out. I would like to see the numbers where its rare to see a track or hear one.


Oh, you mean like our forefathers did with the bison? And the bald eagle. And the grizzly. And the Jaguar. And the now extinct Passenger Pigeon and Monk Seal?



kingfisher 11 said:


> Lets compare them to a coyote, both are similar yet its acceptable to reduce the populations. Uncontrolled they are a menance.
> .


You can't compare them to yotes. The number are far different.



Chris Raymond said:


> These were sled dogs and the owner was in the process of building a fence (it was partially constructed at the time the second dog was killed). Nobody is going to bring a string of sled dogs into their house for obvious reasons.


Not all were sled dogs. Lets keep our news stories separate ok?


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## MuddyPaws1 (Apr 7, 2011)

tsr770 said:


> That right there is how I feel about them, they we're eliminated for a reason... Like it or not



Yea, because they are scary. Kind of like "assault rifles".


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## Chris Raymond (Jul 15, 2004)

MuddyPaws1 said:


> Not all were sled dogs. Lets keep our news stories separate ok?


The last two that were being discussed were.


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

MuddyPaws1 said:


> Oh, you mean like our forefathers did with the bison? And the bald eagle. And the grizzly. And the Jaguar. And the now extinct Passenger Pigeon and Monk Seal?


Muddy...

Would you please try to explain further for me the specific parallels between the above-mentioned animals and that of the wolf? If I'm reading it wrong and you're being sarcastic in some way that I don't understand, please point that out for me as well. When I try to draw those parallels in my mind and understand what you're talking about, I keep coming up with roadblocks. Maybe I'm getting old and forgetting all the historical background information I've read about of each one of those animals and the reasons for their eventual low numbers or demise.

Otherwise, I'm going to have to refer you to look back to your own words in this thread.

"Your analogy[ies] suck."



2014 Ballot: YES for Conservation. No for Out Of State Money!!!


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## kingfisher 11 (Jan 26, 2000)

MuddyPaws1 said:


> Oh, you mean like our forefathers did with the bison? And the bald eagle. And the grizzly. And the Jaguar. And the now extinct Passenger Pigeon and Monk Seal?
> 
> 
> 
> You can't compare them to yotes. The number are far different.


I am sure if you have your way, the numbers will be much closer. 


With your above comparisons, Its obvious just plain don't have a clue. What are you, 25 years old?


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## kingfisher 11 (Jan 26, 2000)

Seaarkshooter said:


> Muddy...
> 
> Would you please try to explain further for me the specific parallels between the above-mentioned animals and that of the wolf? If I'm reading it wrong and you're being sarcastic in some way that I don't understand, please point that out for me as well. When I try to draw those parallels in my mind and understand what you're talking about I keep coming up with roadblocks. Maybe I'm getting old and forgetting all the historical background information I've read and heard about in each one of those animals and the reasons for their eventual low numbers or demise.
> 
> ...



Seaarkshooter, After reading MP's post above. Do you actually think you can have a reasonable educated conversation with him?


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

kingfisher 11 said:


> Seaarkshooter, After reading MP's post above. Do you actually think you can have a reasonable educated conversation with him?


 Not at this point, but I'm willing to give it a try. Lol 

My father was deaf from a child and I learned to read people's intentions very intuitively by their body language and affection in their voice. Sarcasm and plain stupidity I have a difficulty with. At times, you gotta print me out a roadmap for me to see the direction there.

2014 Ballot: YES for Conservation. No for Out Of State Money!!!


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## North wind (Oct 19, 2009)

Mention wolf management and "they" turn it into extinction. They do it all the time.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Just learned the wolf quota for the 2013 wolf season has been increased to 275 wolves......in Wisconsin. Quite a contrast between Michigan and Wisconsin. Here in Michigan we have wolf advocates hyperventilating over the potential harvest of 43 wolves. 

While I'm on here posting.....I am wondering if the wolf advocates have genuine concern for wolves. Or, if they are just plain clueless over what happens when public opinion against wolves reaches its tipping point in the U.P.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

MuddyPaws1 said:


> So because you are scared of them, more should be killed?


 When you are icefishing a 1.5 mile hike in and you happen to see a few other than on television you tend to give them alot of respect. I happen to know that a wolf can run 30 mph and on open ice with about 25 pounds of winter gear on I will not outrun one. I respect them enough to know that I am nothing more than meat to them and they know that. Thinning the population alot will give them some respect for the apex predator. The population has reached a point where they need to be harvested just like deer, coyotes, fox and other critters. If people keep them protected too long then there will be an attack on a human. When and if it happens I think alot of them will be shot. I am not a wolf hugger but I believe that the DNR is moving in the right direction.


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## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

MuddyPaws1 said:


> Oh, you mean like our forefathers did with the bison? And the bald eagle. And the grizzly. And the Jaguar. And the now extinct Passenger Pigeon and Monk Seal?
> 
> Forefathers did was build a nation. the bison was killed by the millions, to control the native people. the US government could not control them by force of arms, so the killed the main food source, the bison. Hungry folks dont fight much.
> 
> ...


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

The DNR proposes wolf management via hunting and trapping with a total limit of 43 wolves to be taken over a period of about three months. The money raised from hunting and trapping will go back into the wolf management program. Why are the anti's getting their panties in a bind? If they have a season or not these wolves are in problem areas and they will be killed anyway. The DNR might just as well make some money to put back into the program, It is not like any of the pro wolf people have ever contributed a dime of their money.It would be interesting to take an individual poll of people who signed the petition as to how much money that they have invested in actual wolf management. I would bet that you would have a difficult time coming up with $100 between 250,000 people.


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## DIYsportsman (Dec 21, 2010)

Robert Holmes said:


> The DNR proposes wolf management via hunting and trapping with a total limit of 43 wolves to be taken over a period of about three months. The money raised from hunting and trapping will go back into the wolf management program. Why are the anti's getting their panties in a bind? If they have a season or not these wolves are in problem areas and they will be killed anyway. The DNR might just as well make some money to put back into the program, It is not like any of the pro wolf people have ever contributed a dime of their money.It would be interesting to take an individual poll of people who signed the petition as to how much money that they have invested in actual wolf management. I would bet that you would have a difficult time coming up with $100 between 250,000 people.


Right... We hunters bring back deer, beaver, otter, black bear, and now wolves among others with our contributed money from licenses and equipment taxes and now we want to manage their numbers to keep them healthy and or a more manageable level and we are the bad guys... What kind of strange world do these people live in? We do all the work and get all the blame too... 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Beaverhunter2 said:


> The Great Lakes wolves were not reintroduced. The residual wolves in Northern Minnesota and Ontario reproduced and expanded their range. The DNR tried reintroducing a few wolves to the UP in the 60's. They all died. I saw some of the hides and skulls while I was at Tech.
> 
> In the Rockies, the USF&WS reintroduced wolves from Canada- over the objections of Montana, Wyoming, and Idaho. Of course the Feds know best!
> 
> John


 The feds know best that is why they brought us the asian carp


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## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

DIYsportsman said:


> Right... We hunters bring back deer, beaver, otter, black bear, and now wolves among others with our contributed money from licenses and equipment taxes and now we want to manage their numbers to keep them healthy and or a more manageable level and we are the bad guys... What kind of strange world do these people live in? We do all the work and get all the blame too...
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


The wood duck, and turkey, marten and fisher, the pheasant.and 99% of all kritters benifit from the habitat improvment paid for by sportsmen and women. and the antis do nothing.


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## Beaverhunter2 (Jan 22, 2005)

Robert Holmes said:


> Why are the anti's getting their panties in a bind?


Because the referendum has very little to do with wolves. It is more about preventing sportsmen and sportswomen from engaging in and being a part of wildlife management- especially of "exotic" species; and obtaining victories the Anti's can use to simulate fund raising. We cannot let them win- period. Talk to your friends and family. 



Robert Holmes said:


> It would be interesting to take an individual poll of people who signed the petition as to how much money that they have invested in actual wolf management. I would bet that you would have a difficult time coming up with $100 between 250,000 people.


No question about it!



Robert Holmes said:


> The feds know best that is why they brought us the asian carp


The Feds didn't bring us the Asian Carp- southern fish farmers did. However, the Feds did dig out the Chicago River that is providing them the path into the Great Lakes.


John


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## Ggb (Mar 14, 2013)

North wind said:


> Typical... As soon as managing is mentioned it turns into all the wolves will be killed. Short of aerial gunning and poison, you couldn't kill them all now.


Oh, I don't know about that. After all, we did it once.

DISCLAIMER:

I am NOT opposed to hunting wolves, not in the least.


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## DIYsportsman (Dec 21, 2010)

Beaverhunter2 said:


> The Feds didn't bring us the Asian Carp- southern fish farmers did. However, the Feds did dig out the Chicago River that is providing them the path into the Great Lakes.
> 
> John


To import asian carp, bighead/silver, wouldn't that have to be ok'd by the feds?



Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

Ggb said:


> Oh, I don't know about that. After all, we did it once.
> 
> DISCLAIMER:
> 
> I am NOT opposed to hunting wolves, not in the least.


And just when was that?


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## Ggb (Mar 14, 2013)

Seaarkshooter said:


> Muddy...
> 
> Would you please try to explain further for me the specific parallels between the above-mentioned animals and that of the wolf? If I'm reading it wrong and you're being sarcastic in some way that I don't understand, please point that out for me as well. When I try to draw those parallels in my mind and understand what you're talking about, I keep coming up with roadblocks. Maybe I'm getting old and forgetting all the historical background information I've read about of each one of those animals and the reasons for their eventual low numbers or demise.
> 
> ...


Well, if my understanding is correct, the bison were nearly eradicated as a political move to solve the 'Indian problem', certainly not germane to the present wolf problem.

Bald eagles were pretty much done in by DDT, I believe it was? They were more a case of collateral damage as opposed to targeted destruction.

Not sure about the jaguar or grizzly, though they come closest to the current issue, that is, eliminated to prevent depredation on livestock, though there is some question on just how pervasive jaguars really were.

Passenger pigeons were the result of market hunting. Absolutely no allegory there. And monk seals were pretty much wiped out to feed sailors, same as the Stellars Sea Cow and the Moa.

I think I have that right.


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## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

Ggb said:


> Well, if my understanding is correct, the bison were nearly eradicated as a political move to solve the 'Indian problem', certainly not germane to the present wolf problem.
> 
> Bald eagles were pretty much done in by DDT, I believe it was? They were more a case of collateral damage as opposed to targeted destruction.
> 
> ...


I disagree on, passenger pigeons for one. you didnt say anything about the wolf? I will give you the fact that man has TRYED to do in the wolf, since cain slew able, But still they are an issue.There are alot more today than there has been for years. where did they come from?


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## Ggb (Mar 14, 2013)

gilgetter said:


> And just when was that?


Near the end of the 19th/beginning of the 20th century. Most of that time there was a bounty on wolves across most of their territory. Modern, controlled sport hunting wouldn't do that, of course, but extinction through out most of there territory could be accomplished, as it nearly was. True, they didn't get every single one, but they pretty much decimated the population.

Again, my disclaimer - I support the wolf hunt, completely.


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## Ggb (Mar 14, 2013)

gilgetter said:


> I disagree on, passenger pigeons for one. you didnt say anything about the wolf? I will give you the fact that man has TRYED to do in the wolf, since cain slew able, But still they are an issue.There are alot more today than there has been for years. where did they come from?


Loss of habitat in the case of the passenger pigeon is something I over looked. You are correct, but still, market hunting was a contributing factor. My apology on missing that.


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## Ggb (Mar 14, 2013)

gilgetter said:


> I disagree on, passenger pigeons for one. you didnt say anything about the wolf? I will give you the fact that man has TRYED to do in the wolf, since cain slew able, But still they are an issue.There are alot more today than there has been for years. where did they come from?


I wasn't addressing wolves. I was trying to clarify the other animals mentioned.

Wolves were never totally eradicated, especially in Canada and Alaska, but their numbers took a huge, huge hit under the bounty systems of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, a big enough hit that they really weren't an issue.


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## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

Ggb said:


> I wasn't addressing wolves. I was trying to clarify the other animals mentioned.
> 
> Wolves were never totally eradicated, especially in Canada and Alaska, but their numbers took a huge, huge hit under the bounty systems of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, a big enough hit that they really weren't an issue.


 
They did take a hit, no question.but after all that, they still are here. And being the top of the food chain, there is nothing but man to keep them in check.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

http://www.missionwolf.org/page/wild-wolf-history/

Here is an article/map that shows how close the wolf came to extinction in the lower 48 states just 50 years ago. 

L & O


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## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

Liver and Onions said:


> http://www.missionwolf.org/page/wild-wolf-history/
> 
> Here is an article/map that shows how close the wolf came to extinction in the lower 48 states just 50 years ago.
> 
> L & O


Kidden right? I looked at the about us page, Wow. Dont think I would hang my hat on much of what those folks had to say. them folks not only dont know, they dont even suspect.


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## Ggb (Mar 14, 2013)

gilgetter said:


> They did take a hit, no question.but after all that, they still are here. And being the top of the food chain, there is nothing but man to keep them in check.


I totally agree about it being up to us to keep their numbers in check. As I've stated a couple of times in this thread, I support the wolf hunt and wrote my state reps to urge their support, although they did not. I'll take their votes in to consideration at the next elections.

My only point was the assertion that man would not be able to drive the wolf back to the brink of extinction, that's all. I think they can be, though I can't envision that ever happening again.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Such things as parvovirus, rabies, anaplasmosis and other tick born disease can wipe out a large number of wolves. Mange, too. 

Recently watched a program on National Geographic showing the impact mange has on wolves in the winter months. Better to reduce wolf numbers through trapping and hunting than have nature do the culling.


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## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

Rooster Cogburn said:


> Such things as parvovirus, rabies, anaplasmosis and other tick born disease can wipe out a large number of wolves. Mange, too.
> 
> Recently watched a program on National Geographic showing the impact mange has on wolves in the winter months. Better to reduce wolf numbers through trapping and hunting than have nature do the culling.


said MR.RC.


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