# Scary Thoughts on the Muskegon..



## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

Steelheadfred said:


> the other manufacturing economies in the Mid West are hurting.


Fritz, I think Michigan is pretty much the island of discontent right now. Drive south of the boarder into Indiana and the factory parking lots are full on Saturdays. It is less a regional than a state issue. The price of gas, however, is impacting out-of-staters, in my opinion.

Regarding the development, I never see it becoming the "vision" laid out on the website. My guess is that they there is relatively little investment at this time other than the land purchase, which is good collateral for any banker. And I suspect the only infrastructure we will see in the next year or two will be a fancy sign, dirt two-track, and stakes marking the building sites. The "developer" will be counting on "cash flow" from the pre-sales of the lots to finance the infrastructure and, eventually, the lodge, etc. If the lots don't sell briskly, then this will never come to fruition. 

If the project is indeed well funded, I still can't imagine it becoming what is envisioned. But, there is a sucker born everyday...some of them just happen to have more money then the average person.

Does anybody remember the signs promoting the Gray Drake Lodge "coming soon" to downtown Newaygo? I believe the project has since been abandoned but the original sign went up at least 2 or 3 years ago.

Regarding 25lb+ steelhead...not many kings swimming around that big anymore. Then again, the Muskegon is know for its 40lb+ kings:lol:


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## Razzo (Feb 17, 2005)

Steelheadfred said:


> As far as the pictures on the site, I love the trail creek shot....Give me a break.


Yes, I caught that too. That pic of Matt holding that huge skam is from Trail Creek (Michigan City - *Indiana*). Little bit of deceptiveness in that picture. Matt's got plenty of pictures with big Muskegon River Michigan steelhead - they should have used one of those.


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## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

Articles from Fall 2006:

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5475960

http://www.wzzm13.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=62291

This thing appears to be well financed...it also appears that Supinski's involvement is the operation of the lodge.


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## steelie (Sep 20, 2000)

Good Day,

Oh boy, here we go again... hehe.

From what I have heard, this is the second such attempt to create a development like this on the Mo' with the primary coneptualists being the same. The first attempt could not garner enough investment or "feed" money. Apparently, this one does and has from what I have heard on the street/river. So I believe it is only a matter of time, assuming all permits are approved, that construction will begin.

And to claim that the Mo' is some sort a fly fishing Vallahlla is certainly blowing some steam up some ones rear end. Let's face it, the Mo' is an artificial fishery and nothing more. If planting stopped tomorrow, the runs (salmonid) would eventually wither into memory as well as the "resident" population as well. How many times have you beeen to a fly or bait shop and they suggest NOT fishing the Mo' because temps are too high in the summer and the fish (trout) will die if played? Duh... becuase it is not a cold water fishery. And for folks like Sputnik to claim otherwise is insane. At least I know of a few guides who won't fish the Mo' in the summer for that reason. He, and a few mis-directed guides, can complain all they want to the DNR about management of the Mo', but is hard to change a tiger's stripes. What, are you going to demand a refridgeration unit be installed at Croton to chill the river? Hehe... 

Also, just wait for those who live on the river to start complaining about the resort and how it does business. In particular I am refering to jet sleds and other high horse power boats that scream upriver. I have lost count of the number of times my waders almost ended up full of water due to these characters wakes. I have heard in the past of rumblings and a wish to possibly restrict the horsepower of of boats running the Mo' or even create a no-wake regulation. This I think would make for a headache for the resort. A lot of car spotting... And frankly I hope it does happen too... as it will help protect the wading fishermen, and the fish we are chasing, from these jack*sses. They definately put the fish down when they motor past. 

O.K., enough ranting for now... hehe.

Steelie


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

steelie said:


> wish to possibly restrict the horsepower of of boats running the Mo' or even create a no-wake regulation....And frankly I hope it does happen too... as it will help protect the wading fishermen, and the fish we are chasing, from these jack*sses. They definately put the fish down when they motor past.


The best protection would be to buy a boat:lol: 

I'd imagine if our young grasshopper had 20-30k of disposable income burning a hole in his pocket this post would be on whether to have Tracey build him a sled...buy a stock Wooldridge...or is a 120jp enought:evil:


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## mechanical head (Jan 18, 2000)

I'd rather have a 1872 on plane flying by up river, rather than a overloaded 14' v-bottom with a 20hp growling up river..Thats just me though, I'll catch fish out of either jet wash or prop wash...


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## Steelhead Addict (Dec 16, 2004)

Ya I wouldn't hold my breath on this one. you might see some token development but reality is...this type of business would have to have 365 day stream of business to sustain it. the muskegon isn't the place for that. I don't know of many high rollers that are dropping serious coin to catch a bunch of 4 inch smallies. Granted, the muskegon has a good fall, winter, and spring fishery, the summer it simply falls apart. 

If anyone would back this, it would be for emotional reasons. One only needs to look around at other businesses in this sector...they are not exactly booming in this region.

The only good that could come from this....is that this could wake the region up to realize the importance and economic value to a natural resources such as the muskegon river. If it was managed/restored to natural temps, you would have a resource that more highly prized in the region. I doubt that the failure of this project will cause any action though. the DNR has a hard enough time raising fees every decade...they certainly don't have the teeth to do what it takes to deal with our ailing dam infrastructure.


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## catch&release (Jan 17, 2004)

I look at the PM Lodge that seems to barely survive and then laugh thinking about the joke that is Newaygo's River Pimp.

The PM is actually a trout stream that can be fished 365 days a year. The PM Lodge (formerly Johnson's) seems to be empty except for 2 weeks during peak steelhead season, for a month during the salmon run and for a couple weeks during the hex hatch. 

The Muskegon is obviously a much bigger river with more surface area to fish. However, it has 2 months of peak salmon and steelhead season. The rest of the time it's fun for dink rainbows and browns. But basing a $100 million dollar lodge/resort around such a one trick pony river - the idea seems plain silly to me.

MI is not, in my opinion, a destination fishing state except for the steelhead and salmon runs IF you don't have the time/$ to go out west or to Alaska. The Newaygo River Pimp can exaggerate all he wants about 40lb kings and 25 lb steelhead but he is a joker, plain and simple, in my opinion. If people from Chicago/Cleveland, etc are dumb enough to believe in his vision, shame on them, in my opinion. 

Maybe the silver lining would be that to sustain the project, the river will have to be stocked continuously so the fishing would improve for everyone. 

Just my $.02


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Then again, perhaps Supinski has some inside knowledge, or influence that other people have not had before. Depending on the outcome, this meeting might be a great boon for Salmon and Steelhead on the MO, and a couple other major rivers. REALLY makes me wish I did not have to work in the Detroit area that day.


Consumers public meeting... 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ANNOUNCEMENT 
Consumers Energy will host a June 6, 2007 meeting at the Ferris State University - West Campus Community Center from 6:00 to 7:30 PM to discuss their Hydro Dam Water Quality Enhancement Program. 

The meeting will provide an overview of efforts and progress made toward the enhancement of water temperatures and dissolved oxygen levels in the outflow at Consumers' Au Sable, Manistee and Muskegon River hydropower dams. The meeting will include a discussion of water quality modeling efforts, field tests for water temperature and dissolved oxygen enhancements, and future enhancement plans and timelines for the hydro dams. 

Representatives of the Michigan Department of Natural Resource, the US Forest Service, the US Fish & Wildlife Service and the Michigan Hydro Relicensing Coalition, who have participated in reviewing and making recommendations for the water quality program will also be in attendance. 

The public is invited to attend.


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## Speyday (Oct 1, 2004)

Does anybody else see the irony that Orvis, who is a big proponent of habitat restoration and other causes to protect water.....is behind a development on a riverbank?????????


Perhaps they are traveling down the same road as other fly fishing enthusiasts such as Eddie Bauer, Abecrombie, and Fitch. Chasing dollars instead of rainbows.


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## steelie (Sep 20, 2000)

Good Day,

Well someone in the concept portion of this project was at least smart enough to include the idea of a "retirement community" with this project. That will help to provide some consistent income.

For their financial sake, I hope they have an expert river tuber on staff! Haha... imagine... running jet sleds up river in the summer to make sure your clients have cold beer while they leisurely float in their inner tube! Now that is service!

But then again, maybe the retirement thing is not so good... would hate to see the Mo' become the Ganges of West Michigan... brings new meaning to the term "flesh fly". Ick.....

Steelie


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## Mitch (Jan 10, 2003)

Speyday said:


> Does anybody else see the irony that Orvis, who is a big proponent of habitat restoration and other causes to protect water.....is behind a development on a riverbank?????????


To be fair to them, looking through the site I see no mention of Orvis. I might have missed it though.

Mitch


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## catch&release (Jan 17, 2004)

Supinski is an Orvis endorsed guide. I think that means that he pays a fee, meets their criteria, and gets to be listed in the back of their catalogs.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

All I can say is that Matt is pretty shrewd since he's been working his angle for quite some time now with this lodge/fly shop being the goal.

What will attract the clients? 

1) Lot's of fish. Since the Mo is marginal for sustaining trout, this is derived from a large plant.

2) Perception of quality water, i.e. No Kill restriction, size restrictions etc...

Is it possible that every stance, every idiotic statement, every "selfless" cause over the years has all been part of the ultimate plan to turn the Mo into a river that is more marketable and can turn a profit? 

Don't think I've heard Sputnik lobby for flies only yet, but if this project get's off the ground, it is only just a matter of time.


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

bombcast said:


> An Orvis-endorsed old folks home? ***?


Orvis Tip #23- Orvis Frog's Fanny can make do as a great laxative.:yikes: :corkysm55


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## locallegendry (Apr 13, 2007)

lets remember this is a niche fishery guys. if it doesn't produce a profit, we all know it wont last long


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

steelie said:


> Good Day,
> 
> Well someone in the concept portion of this project was at least smart enough to include the idea of a "retirement community" with this project. That will help to provide some consistent income.
> 
> Steelie


Steelie, we are talking about Newaygo not Naples :lol:. Newaygo is not and never will be Traverse City, Suttons Bay, Elk Rapids, Charlevoix, Petosky, Harbour Springs, ext......

Nor will Newaygo County ever have the diverse tourism draw that Lake County has. Hence the comparison to the PM river Lodge is a valid one. Lake County has far more year round tourism potential to the outdoor enthusiast, a more diverse draw then just fishing. I run and am part owner in a Marriott Hotel in Traverse City, MI. With out a 50% customer base of Corporate guests, (the other 50% tourists) we could not make a dime. Some years even with 70% year round occupancy we dont make a dime. 100 million for this project is a low ball number IMO, they built Great Wolf Lodge for not much less.


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## steelie (Sep 20, 2000)

GOod Day,

Steelheadfred - could not agree more. Comment was meant to be a bit tongue in cheek... hehehe. Plus, how many people live in that area that might be able to afford such luxury? Hehe.

Steelie


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## Dutchman (Jan 17, 2000)

steelie said:


> Plus, how many people live in that area that might be able to afford such luxury? Hehe.
> 
> Steelie


 I live 4 miles from the "project". I hope to retire there!! I will be the one mowing the grass and doing general maintenance!:lol:


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Ya know, even if this development is not successful, just building it will bring money and commerce into the area; and will create jobs. He will need to hire people to do the construction. If he brings in outside people for some of that (pretty much will have to), then they will have to be housed somewhere, and will buy food and spend money doing things in their off time. 
The fishery is what it is. The MO is a large river, and can handle a lot of fishing pressure. I say this will be a good thing for the area, and more power to Mr. Supinski. If it works, then great. If not, then some folks will be able to buy up the pieces at some point, and someone will turn a buck. That is the nature of business, folks. 

For the record I do not condone lining fish, or snagging fish. I do condone just about anything legal which will create or bring jobs to Michigan right now. Our State is desparate for new jobs to be created.


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