# Heating a cottage



## sweatyspartan (May 24, 2004)

We just bought an old cottage and plan on using it during the winter. Currently it has electric baseboard heating (about 4 4' units). No gas is available at the cottage. It's a two story home approx. 750 sf. Were in the process of insulating the walls to help keep the heat in, but I'm of the belief that the baseboard heating won't be enough. A wood stove is an option, but getting wood there is a bit tricky and ideally I don't think we want to give up the floor space and have the additional management of it. Were also looking into a wall mount heat pump (Mitsubishi) but the cost is making me nervous. The goal is not to live in the cottage every day in the winter, but to be able and go and spend the night in the winter.

Any ideas or experiences would be appreciated.


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## tuckersdad (Oct 30, 2010)

You might try electric oil filled radiators...we use 2 in our place (1400 sq. ft.)and they really put out a nice even heat-have tip over protection and can be moved around if needed...once warmed they draw little juice to maintain...and you can get them cheap come spring...


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## Jet08 (Aug 21, 2007)

When I was in college we rented a cottage on a lake that was previously only used during the summer. The owner put a wall mounted propane furnace in the corner of the living room area, and dropped propane tank out back. The furnace was probably 6-7' tall, had an air supply on the top, and blew out the bottom. This was in Mecosta County, and we made it just fine through the winters.


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## tdejong302 (Nov 28, 2004)

Personally I would put in a pellet stove or freestanding propane fireplace, both vented outside.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Considering the price of propane....keep the electric baseboard, do a good job on the insulation. And you will be ahead of the game.


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## bucko12pt (Dec 9, 2004)

I have a similar size cabin and I have a free standing propane fireplace. I don't use it in the winter anymore, but do use it March through December pretty regularly. My propane bill per year is $ 50-60 dollars. 

I would consider either a free standing fireplace, or a wall mounted propane furnace which would be cheaper. 

I've had my fill of wood stoves in cabins and would no longer own a cabin with a woodstove (although I still hunt out of a few). Seems they are either 35 degrees, or 110, no in between and I don't like either extreme. 

Another thing to keep in mind. It takes a long time to bring a cabin up to temperature when it's 10-15 degrees outside. Without an adequate heat source, you will be cold the first 8-10 hours you are there. I have a small 40K btu propane salamander and kept a tank of gas in the cabin when I used mine in the winter. I could run it 30-40 minutes along with my heat source and it would bring it up to a liveable temperature in an hour, or so.


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## sweatyspartan (May 24, 2004)

tuckersdad said:


> You might try electric oil filled radiators...we use 2 in our place (1400 sq. ft.)and they really put out a nice even heat-have tip over protection and can be moved around if needed...once warmed they draw little juice to maintain...and you can get them cheap come spring...


This is an option...any direction on brand/style/etc? I know nothing about them


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## sweatyspartan (May 24, 2004)

bucko12pt said:


> I have a similar size cabin and I have a free standing propane fireplace. I don't use it in the winter anymore, but do use it March through December pretty regularly. My propane bill per year is $ 50-60 dollars.
> 
> I would consider either a free standing fireplace, or a wall mounted propane furnace which would be cheaper.
> 
> ...


I have the largest mr buddy heater that can get the place up to temp in about 15 minutes.....so if we can use that to get up to temp and the baseboard to maintain that's our best option


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## sweatyspartan (May 24, 2004)

swampbuck said:


> Considering the price of propane....keep the electric baseboard, do a good job on the insulation. And you will be ahead of the game.


Is there any way to do a calculation on how much btus the baseboards kick out and some determination if that's sufficient?


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## answerguy8 (Oct 15, 2001)

tuckersdad said:


> You might try electric oil filled radiators...we use 2 in our place (1400 sq. ft.)and they really put out a nice even heat-have tip over protection and can be moved around if needed...once warmed they draw little juice to maintain...and you can get them cheap come spring...


There is no cost advantage to the oil filled electric heaters. When you turn it on the KWs go into warming up the oil and not the room. You still will spend the same amount on electricity to warm a given area.


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## miruss (Apr 18, 2003)

For our hunting cabin we use a vent less gas heater wall mounted with a built in fan an a copper hose outside to 2 100lb propane tanks with a auto switch valve so when one tank empties it switches to the other then we can take the tank in to get it filled without turning off the heat.


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## bucko12pt (Dec 9, 2004)

miruss said:


> For our hunting cabin we use a vent less gas heater wall mounted with a built in fan an a copper hose outside to 2 100lb propane tanks with a auto switch valve so when one tank empties it switches to the other then we can take the tank in to get it filled without turning off the heat.


Ventless heaters can kill you. I hate the things, especially dangerous in a 700 sft cabin, plus they give off a ton of unwanted moisture. 

I have a couple friends that use them in their cabins. One has some teenage kids that use the cabin with friends. Some day I can see the kids having a party, having too much to drink and passing out with the windows closed for 12 hours. A tragedy in the making. I know they supposedly have an auto shut down............that can fail. 

I'd stay far away from ventless heaters for cabin use.


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## omalson (Dec 28, 2010)

The Mitsubishi mini splits are nice. Nut this winter they are having trouble keeping up. The colder than normal temps are causing lots of issues. If it was a normal year mini splits are fine. The ventless wall heaters are a good option as long as they are burning clean. Co monitor is always a must with any gas burning appliance. Toyo oil stoves are good efficient units. They have some models that will run on diesel oil and kerosene. With a tank that sets on the unit. Only problem is finding them in Michigan. 

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## Huntmich (Sep 4, 2008)

You have to ask yourself what you want. Do you want to cut wood? If not a pellet stove would probably work. Your options are limited. If you go propane a wall furnace would work great. It's not like your going to use it all the time so it really isn't going to cost a bunch for propane. I know electric heat was cheaper then propane this year, but it was an abnormally cold winter. If it was me I'd have a propane furnace of some sort. I don't enjoy cutting wood, and when I'm up north is rather not have to cut wood. When you come into a cold house your not just heating up the air, you have to heat up all the furniture and stuff as well


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## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

I would put 8ft baseboards on the bottom floor and the 4footers on the second floor. I'd stick with electric.


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## MEL (Jul 17, 2005)

The two best ways to make your home, cabin more efficient..........
Google "air sealing". And add attic insulation.
A good air sealing job in combination with attic insulation could mean a world of difference in heating with a couple small heaters or having to add more heating.
20" in the attic of cellulose should do nice. And filling the walls with cellulose or foam I'd great to.


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## miruss (Apr 18, 2003)

bucko12pt said:


> Ventless heaters can kill you. I hate the things, especially dangerous in a 700 sft cabin, plus they give off a ton of unwanted moisture.
> 
> I have a couple friends that use them in their cabins. One has some teenage kids that use the cabin with friends. Some day I can see the kids having a party, having too much to drink and passing out with the windows closed for 12 hours. A tragedy in the making. I know they supposedly have an auto shut down............that can fail.
> 
> I'd stay far away from ventless heaters for cabin use.


bucko12pt not trying to start a fight but where have you heard of someone dieing from one of these. I've looked all over online and haven't seen one death that can be pointed out because of co the one site i found no date on it to say when published think it was 2004 says 0 deaths in 23 yrs. There where some states that banned them at first but they now allow them http://www.ventfree.org/content/view/31/20/ just need to use common sense like a working co alarm but you should have those already


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## sweatyspartan (May 24, 2004)

MEL said:


> The two best ways to make your home, cabin more efficient..........
> Google "air sealing". And add attic insulation.
> A good air sealing job in combination with attic insulation could mean a world of difference in heating with a couple small heaters or having to add more heating.
> 20" in the attic of cellulose should do nice. And filling the walls with cellulose or foam I'd great to.


Very familiar with air infiltration so well be sealed up tight. I'm just trying to figure if baseboard heat will be enough to maintain a decent temp when it's 15 degrees outside.

It is on a crawl if that changes anything


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## kracker (Jan 25, 2013)

Given the space to be heated has sufficient insulation and is fairly air tight and the electric baseboard is sized correctly for the space, it should heat just fine. If you have baseboard heat now, give it a try and see how it does. It's quick to add more baseboard if needed. Probably could Take the measurement of the cabin to a heating company and ask them to size the baseboard for you. The Mitsubishi Hyperheat splits are definitely nice systems especially if you will be wanting A/C in the summer. Definitely need to open the check book for that though.


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## Greenbush future (Sep 8, 2005)

I'd keep the electric and add some form of propane (insert to fireplace or free standing with a blower) The goal or issue is getting it warmed up quicker when you arrive. I think if you just go electric, it will take forever, and cost quite a bit too, unless you can come up with a remote way of turning it on before you arrive. 4-6 hours ahead of your arrival time should get it warmed up, I know they exist too.


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## MSUFW07 (Jan 22, 2009)

Our cottage is about the same size and we have baseboard heaters. 1 in each bedroom and bathroom, then two 8' in the main room, along with a fireplace. We don't go up to much in the winter because it takes so long to heat things up from the outside temp. We were up there in Jan, it was something like upper teens when we go there and the floor was still terribly cold in the morning after all the heaters going and a fire. Granted the basement never really gets out of the 30's with one heater in it but it was still cold. 

We have actually thought of putting in a furnace either propane, or electric. Just don't know how hard it would be to retrofit a place for one. It would be nice to be able to go up anytime and just turn a thermostat up and have it warm in a decent amount of time, rather then getting it warmed up just to leave and let it cool back down.


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## miruss (Apr 18, 2003)

MSUFW07 said:


> Our cottage is about the same size and we have baseboard heaters. 1 in each bedroom and bathroom, then two 8' in the main room, along with a fireplace. We don't go up to much in the winter because it takes so long to heat things up from the outside temp. We were up there in Jan, it was something like upper teens when we go there and the floor was still terribly cold in the morning after all the heaters going and a fire. Granted the basement never really gets out of the 30's with one heater in it but it was still cold.
> 
> We have actually thought of putting in a furnace either propane, or electric. Just don't know how hard it would be to retrofit a place for one. It would be nice to be able to go up anytime and just turn a thermostat up and have it warm in a decent amount of time, rather then getting it warmed up just to leave and let it cool back down.


MSUFW07
If your looking for something just to heat up fast and then let base boards take over you might want to check into one of the propane salamanders they put out a lot of heat fast i would bet the house would be up to temp in less then 15 min

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/masterreg;-gas-forced-air-heater-60000-btu


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## Firefighter (Feb 14, 2007)

miruss said:


> MSUFW07
> If your looking for something just to heat up fast and then let base boards take over you might want to check into one of the propane salamanders they put out a lot of heat fast i would bet the house would be up to temp in less then 15 min
> 
> http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/masterreg;-gas-forced-air-heater-60000-btu


Please at least have a carbon monoxide monitor if you're running anything like a salamander inside. Don't want to sound like a downer, but they'll kill a family pretty quick if unventilated and without shutoffs.


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## tuckersdad (Oct 30, 2010)

answerguy8 said:


> There is no cost advantage to the oil filled electric heaters. When you turn it on the KWs go into warming up the oil and not the room. You still will spend the same amount on electricity to warm a given area.


Huh??? What do you think heats the room...? They are cost effective and barely move the meter in my application...safer than anything with a flame...and thermostat controlled...I found a pair at WallyWorld...they were $65/each...marked down to $14 so I took both...it was worth $30 to find out...3 years later they are going strong and I don't have to worry about them when I leave the house overnight...good luck with your search.


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## answerguy8 (Oct 15, 2001)

tuckersdad said:


> Huh??? What do you think heats the room...? They are cost effective and barely move the meter in my application...


 I'm not sure what confused you. A 1,000 watt oil filled electric heater puts out as much heat as any other 1,000 watt electric heater. The only difference is the oil filled heater directs it's initial heat output in to warming up the oil and not the room air.


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## Rainman68 (Apr 29, 2011)

If you want to heat it fast. wood is the way to go. 

I'd like to find a propane heater that could heat my 400sq ft cabin in 15 minutes, forget the salamander. The last hunting trip I took the outside temp was 5 and 10 inside. With roughly 50k btu's it still took 4 hours to break 50 degrees. The cabin is well insulated throughout with new insulated windows. Problem is knotty pine interior takes forever to heat.


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## MEL (Jul 17, 2005)

Firefighter said:


> Please at least have a carbon monoxide monitor if you're running anything like a salamander inside. Don't want to sound like a downer, but they'll kill a family pretty quick if unventilated and without shutoffs.


Yep! And can kill a family very slowly as well.


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## MEL (Jul 17, 2005)

Might also look Into a remote controlled tstat thats able to be controlled from a iphone or computer. The NESTsystem comes to mind but not sure if its compatable with your system. Ib may also require wireless internet to operate.
But if yiu can find one that works you can turn It on in advance and arrive at cabin already warm.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

Rainman68 said:


> If you want to heat it fast. wood is the way to go.
> 
> I'd like to find a propane heater that could heat my 400sq ft cabin in 15 minutes, forget the salamander. The last hunting trip I took the outside temp was 5 and 10 inside. With roughly 50k btu's it still took 4 hours to break 50 degrees. The cabin is well insulated throughout with new insulated windows. Problem is knotty pine interior takes forever to heat.


+1! And cutting wood is fun! Warm it up with wood and maintain it with the electric baseboard through the night. It won't be that cold in the morning and there is nothing better than throwing a log on the fire in the morning. Makes you feel like you're Up North!


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## CBT (Mar 9, 2014)

I'd go with a Kimberly. It's a little pricey, but I think it's worth it - Made in USA! here's the website http://www.unforgettablefirellc.com/


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## ajs8000 (Apr 9, 2013)

Based on the need for the occasional overnight during the winter months, I think you'll be just fine with the baseboard heating system that you currently have as long as you can be patient with how long it takes to bring it up to comfort level. Search the interweb for the formula on BTU's to temperature increase and sq foot and you'll get an idea on how much you need. I can tell you that the little baseboard units usually put out about 5K BTU's if they are 120v so the four that you use would give you about 20K BTU's. That will get you up to temp eventually, but you could always add a portable electric heater of any variety to assist. 





sweatyspartan said:


> We just bought an old cottage and plan on using it during the winter. Currently it has electric baseboard heating (about 4 4' units). No gas is available at the cottage. It's a two story home approx. 750 sf. Were in the process of insulating the walls to help keep the heat in, but I'm of the belief that the baseboard heating won't be enough. A wood stove is an option, but getting wood there is a bit tricky and ideally I don't think we want to give up the floor space and have the additional management of it. Were also looking into a wall mount heat pump (Mitsubishi) but the cost is making me nervous. The goal is not to live in the cottage every day in the winter, but to be able and go and spend the night in the winter.
> 
> Any ideas or experiences would be appreciated.


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