# What right do hound hunters have???



## SPH (Jan 20, 2004)

We all know that it is not possible to keep a hound within a reasonable distance of its owner if it is running game. That being said, is it even possible to come up with a solution for both sides? The more both sides argue about it the more chance there is that they will ban one or the other. Either way you look at it somebody is going to lose in these situations.

There are to many personalities wrapped up into both activities to even think that there will ever be a viable solution.

kind of sucks!!!


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## spice64 (Dec 1, 2004)

10- 4! I'm sorry guys But I've just plain old had it with the hound hunters,I'm not talkin about just 1 or 2. I'm a dog guy "upland" but I've just seen way way to many altercations with the hound guys. I guess I will have to be the guy who paints with one broad stroke, My property has been drivin over, fences drivin thru, gates crashed I,ve had stands stolen. Its all been just way to much. I'm tired of hearing "did you get Pictures?" NO I DONT I DONT CARRY A CAMERA WITH ME 24-7 AND I NEVER WILL, I SHOULDNT HAVE TO SO I CAN HAVE YOU ARRESTED FOR DESTRUCTION OF PROPERTY AND TRESSPASS. I'm also tired of hearing We must all stick together as hunters. Thats the rally cry of arogant hound hunters. I,m sorry, I used to think hound hunting was really interesting and a good thing, I can apreciate a dog doin his thing but now I'm done supporting hound hunting.


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## unregistered55 (Mar 12, 2000)

"I love dogs...and I think hound hunting is cool...but you know what? Tresspassing dogs have become such a problem on my own property that I dont even trap it anymore. I have *****, coyotes, grey fox and red fox on my place...yet I havent set a trap here this year, because of all the dogs passing through without my permission."
Well Northcountry, you choose your way but I'll stand my ground. I've got exclusive permission to trap and snare one some very productive properties and I intend to continue. I think I'll be checking the legalities of what follows when someone's hound get stopped by one of my legally set coyote traps or snares. This is 2007 so I suppose I would be the one to get in trouble if a hound was hurt or killed. 
I agree with the opinion previously stated that what we have here is two ways to take coyotes that are inevitably in conflict. Hounds chasing coyotes on their runways are bound to get stopped by a snare. And those really good locations along runways used by coyotes are runied when a hound gets caught there.
If someone can see how "we can all just get along" you see something I dont.
The trapper is NOT interfering with the dog hunters. He's enjoying his sport on private property where he has permission to be. The hound hunter, on the other hand, is intruding onto private property via his dogs, and probably interfering with the operations of the trapper. That's the way I see it. This thread is the second time I have heard of some hound hunters allowing their pack of dogs to catch and fight a coyote to the death. Wow! How the 
*#&@ are ethical hunters supposed to defend something like THAT to the non-hunting voter?


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## SPH (Jan 20, 2004)

You can be a horses ***** and hunt dogs but that does not make every hound hunter a horses *****. Someone who had dogs run through your property is very different from a person who steals or does damage to it. 

The morans that you are talking about are part of every recreational activity that I have ever been a part of. I have encoutered jerks, fishing, deer hunting, rabbit hunting and yes even pheasant hunting. 

Everyone seems to point out the activity of hound hunting but the real issue is the individuals you have encountered from what I am reading.


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## SPH (Jan 20, 2004)

perca said:


> "I love dogs...and I think hound hunting is cool...but you know what? Tresspassing dogs have become such a problem on my own property that I dont even trap it anymore. I have *****, coyotes, grey fox and red fox on my place...yet I havent set a trap here this year, because of all the dogs passing through without my permission."
> Well Northcountry, you choose your way but I'll stand my ground. I've got exclusive permission to trap and snare one some very productive properties and I intend to continue. I think I'll be checking the legalities of what follows when someone's hound get stopped by one of my legally set coyote traps or snares. This is 2007 so I suppose I would be the one to get in trouble if a hound was hurt or killed.
> I agree with the opinion previously stated that what we have here is two ways to take coyotes that are inevitably in conflict. Hounds chasing coyotes on their runways are bound to get stopped by a snare. And those really good locations along runways used by coyotes are runied when a hound gets caught there.
> If someone can see how "we can all just get along" you see something I dont.
> ...




A coyote dies alot quicker with dogs than a deer does when it is shot in the guts with an arrow or a gun for that matter.


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## lang49 (Aug 1, 2005)

SPH said:


> Someone who had dogs run through your property is very different from a person who steals or does damage to it.


No difference whatsoever! If you don't have the decency to ask permission prior to running dogs through my land, you have no more respect for me than a thief.

Thats the biggest difference between trappers and houndsman. Trappers play precisely to the rule. Exactly 4.25" loop diameter, only on private land- not an inch over the line, always asking permission first.

Houndsman- Eh, if my dogs should happed over the line, no big deal- I can always retrieve them without asking, If the dogs happen to kick up a coyote while over the line- chase him when he clears the line. 

Houndsman expect us to adhere exactly to the letter. Yet, they have a much lower expectation for themselves.


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## NEMichsportsman (Jul 3, 2001)

Another disappointing thread!

I picture a day down the road when two groups of guys will be arguing..."I remember *back when we used to be able to trap*.....and those rotten dog guys trespassed and ruined everything for us!!!" 

and another bunch is reminiscing ".....*back in the day before the law changed*..... we got down by the crick and I found old yeller caught by one of those damn inconsiderate trappers setting up in an area, where they know we run dogs...they could have put up signs or something!!??!"

Which of those guys will be the big winner?!? I guess the one who likes sitting on the couch thinking about the good old days before they were stripped of their hunting and fishing rights at the ballot box!

I am now out of this discussion.

It's a shame too...the trapping forum is usually the one I visit (to regain my sanity) to see success stories, learn, and see sportsmen helping other sportsmen


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## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

Well you can't expect landowners and those who use private land for their own endeavors, to sit back and take the encroachment by hound hunters and the associations that represent them. 

I respect those houndsmen who do their absolute best to keep their dogs of others properties, but these "free passes" to treaspass, will do nothing but encourage running dogs on property that they do not have permission to be on.

Somewhere along the line someone decided that peoples recreational pursuits should trump the rights of a property owner. What a scary can of worms that opens.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Neal, in my frim belief I feel that the law is fair and just. But there are some, as with any sport, that will use that little hand hold to bend the rules too far. I trap and have hounds, albeit just rabbit dogs but they do cross boarders from time to time. I stay away from deer areas during deer season and always try to recover my dogs quickly. Truth be told, I bet I can get them back faster than most upland guy's dogs. 
It's unfortunate that there are some that use the law to abuse it, but that is always the norm. In the end, it will probably be the demise of hound hunting before too long.
There is a group of hound hunters that come through this area most every year and releases their hounds for yotes. By the time all the landowners get together to find that no one had given permission, they are about loaded and gone. This year will be different though :evil:
I think we need to police our own as best as we can.


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## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

Well freep, you know I respect you and as mentioned above those who do their best to respect others, however I don't think any law that allows strangers to enter my property without permission is neither fair or just.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

We've had this dicussion before. I for the most part can retrieve my dogs without going over, unless there's and obsticle. I feel there a varying degress to this also, one yard, fifty yards and a total tromping over and through.


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## NEMichsportsman (Jul 3, 2001)

I said I was done but....

*Ethical hunters dont put their dogs down with intent to pursue game over private property without permission. Only Poachers do!

Prosecute those that do!

*Pissing and moaning about it on some internet site only divides us further. I'd be willing to bet that the people you are griping about probably arent members here at the site!

I found a bunch of snares all over my property last year, nobody has permission to do anything there! (Nobody has ever asked either). I didn't get on here ranting , raving and maligning trappers! WHY? Because it wasn't anybody here at MS, it wasn't a trapper who did it...it was a trespassing poaching slob! I realize that:*Ethical trappers dont put their traps out on private property without permission. Only Poachers do!

*I only mentioned this to exhibit my point a slob is a slob! It doesn't matter what venture they are involved in, they only harm upright sportsmen and property owners like you and I!!!!!
If we spent as much time trying to get these people caught we would be having a lot more time to enoying posts about the good things we encouner in the outdoors

Now I am done.:16suspect


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## fbuckner (Apr 7, 2006)

about 20 years ago during this time of year we had a young steer killed and quartered up. This was right at the bottom of the hill by my house and only 50 yards from the road. I have had things stolen from my barn,tree stands stolen etc. Earlier this fall another farmer down the road had 2 cattle shot with arrows one died and had the rear quarters taken from it the other lived with a heafty vet bill.Last thanksgiving I had an Illegal Imigrant try to enter my house and lucky for him a sherriffs deputy was already following him. I have been known to make people kiss the dirt I would have you ask the teen agers who entered my livestock barn at midnight 2 years ago. But I never got their name nor did i get a phone call from their parent when I told them to have them call me if they had a problem with a .40 cal being pointed at their kids heads. I dont full time farm as it doesnt pay! I have another job. So you either ask before you cross that fence or be lookin for real trouble. It's not me so much you have to worry about at night it would be the fella who lives down the road who has 30 more years invested in this farm than I. It wouldn be the first time someone had a **** shot out of a tree above them. I can cohabitate with other legally hunting fella Heck I want the coyote gone from here period. Just dont bitch when your dog gets hung up in a trap,leave the trap alone after you released it ,ask first dont send me the vet bill if there is one as I feel a .50 cent shell is cheaper than a 500 dollar vet bill.


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## unregistered55 (Mar 12, 2000)

Well, I never believed that any progress on any issue could be made by keeping quiet about it. I repeat that it is unfortunate that because of targeting the same animal ON THE SAME PRIVATE LAND, two user groups are unavoidably in conflict with each other but shutting up about it solves nothing. I firmly believe that the person who has permission to enjoy his sport on private land is unquestionably in the right on this issue. He is breaking NO law. I started this thread and I am impressed with the input of so many of my fellow trappers. I was unaware of the volatility of the subject regarding houndsmen. If that's the way it is , then that's the way it is!! If there is anything further to BE DONE on this issue, I will certainly get involved. It really irked me to get a questionaire from the MTA regarding snaring, especially question #10' "Do you have any recommendations addressing WHAT CAN BE DONE BY TRAPPERS...TO HEAL THE ILL FEELINGS OF DOG HUNTERS AGAINST TRAPPERS?" Guess maybe I'm supposed to apologize to these dog hunters for setting snares on private land where I have permission to be and they don't? :sad:


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## Riva (Aug 10, 2006)

Nowhere in this discourse is there any mention of the fact that is it virtually impossible to cast your hounds on the trail of a coyote without an extremely high probability that they dog(s) will traverse upon property that you do not have permission to be on. This fact is particularly evident in the lower half of the Southern Paeninsula where property and parcel size and populations are considerably more condensed. In fact, I would offer that the propability of this occuring is 99% in most locales. 

We prohibit deer hunting with rifles in the souther lower. Perhaps its time to put the same scutiny towards this activity.


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## SPH (Jan 20, 2004)

perca said:


> Well, I never believed that any progress on any issue could be made by keeping quiet about it. *I repeat that it is unfortunate that because of targeting the same animal ON THE SAME PRIVATE LAND, two user groups are unavoidably in conflict with each other but shutting up about it solves nothing.* *I firmly believe that the person who has permission to enjoy his sport on private land is unquestionably in the right on this issue*. He is breaking NO law. I started this thread and I am impressed with the input of so many of my fellow trappers. I was unaware of the volatility of the subject regarding houndsmen. If that's the way it is , then that's the way it is!! If there is anything further to BE DONE on this issue, I will certainly get involved. It really irked me to get a questionaire from the MTA regarding snaring, especially question #10' "Do you have any recommendations addressing WHAT CAN BE DONE BY TRAPPERS...TO HEAL THE ILL FEELINGS OF DOG HUNTERS AGAINST TRAPPERS?" Guess maybe I'm supposed to apologize to these dog hunters for setting snares on private land where I have permission to be and they don't? :sad:


How does your post or statement solve anything. The only way to solve it is to stop trapping or stop running hounds. Talking does nothing as it will never be resolved. I just read a post in the dog section from a trapper who posted to bird dog owners to keep their dogs out of his sets and accused them of stealing. Its not even bird season! See there are brainiacs on both sides and I am sure everyone has there own valid point for what ever reason.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

I for one am going to go home and kiss my neighbors and farmers that invite me run and trap their lands


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## David G Duncan (Mar 26, 2000)

I know that the issue of trespassing dogs is a very emotional topic. And for the most part everyone has remain civil.

Seems that every year about this time, we get to have this discussion.

Thanks for keeping cool heads and open minds, so we can hopefully better appreciate each others opinions.


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