# COs at Tippy Dam



## Hamilton Reef (Jan 20, 2000)

CO REPORT FOR WEEK ENDING 08/01/2004
DISTRICT 6

CO Steve Converse was checking fishing activity at Tippy Dam in Manistee County late Saturday night. He observed two subjects attempting to snag fish above the Coffer Dam. CO Converse waited for the subjects to return to shore and then made contact. One of the two subjects did not have a fishing license. A third subject was contacted at a vehicle. A computer check indicated that he had an outstanding felony warrant. CO Converse arrested the subject on the warrant and issued the other subject a ticket for fishing without a license.


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

My god, and that was for the week ending 8-1-04? What the ****???? Used to be you could count on some quiet fishing in August--the fisheries rapists usually stayed down on the smaller river until Labor Day ! Good job to Steve for being down there! When he get's done busting a few there, he should make a trip down to the "tubes".

I could say a few things about those idiots and their like, but the resulting foul language would probably get me all three strikes in one post.

Morons...


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## Erik (Jan 17, 2000)

What I'd like to know is why do the COs have to wait when they see someone doing this? I hear it over and over about how some CO watched an individual in the act of braking the law and then waited for the person to finish the activity before they busted them. I thought that protecting the resource was the main objective. Seems like the CO in this case could have busted these guys on the spot for the violations he wrote them up for. All he had to do was ask to see their licenses. The whole thing would have stopped right there, but no, he let them go on ripping hooks until they were completely finished. I mean even if he had asked to see their licenses and they were able to produce them, they would have known they were being watched and would probably have ceased their activity.
I'm sorry but this seems screwed up to me. It's the same thing when I call the DNR because some guy is trespassing on my property. They arrive and want to wait and see if the guy kills something so they can bust him for that also. I don't want to wait for the jerk to kill something. I want him off my property now, before he does kill something.
Whats the old saying? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure? Makes sense to me.


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## dinoday (Feb 22, 2004)

Don't know how they will ever get a handle on the snagging there,I'll freely admil I used to snag,BUT, it was legal then. Mabye not very ethical, but legal. When it became illegal I quit doing it.
Too many guys just won't follow the law.You've got the "speed reelers" the 'Tight liners" and the plain old yankers. So many guys ,too few CO's,face it they can't stop 150-/ :yikes: guy's violating at the same time.
We've all seen it shoulder to shoulder and for the CO's I'm sure it's just overwelming.
I'd love to take my kids up there in the thick of the run and let them give it a try, but don't dare! 
There's my vent. Glad they busted those guy's.


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

From watching them in action during the riverwatch, etc, they make every effort to insure that the charges are as concrete as possible...even if that means waiting until they actually hook and keep a foul hooked fish. When you have the Fred Trost's of the world jumping up and trying to defend (alledged)snaggers in a court of law and then getting them off on technicalities or because there was some grey area, what message does that send to the violaters?

You have judges out there that look at an "attempted snagging" violation with some...hesitation (I guess that's a good word to use), but the more serious offenses are easier to uphold and prosecute. Besides, the fines are higher with the more serious violations and personally, I'd rather see the book thrown at the blatant yankers--might make them think twice about going down there again.

Just my opinion, but I definitly see your point, Erik.


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

> So many guys ,too few CO's,face it they can't stop 150-/ guy's violating at the same time. We've all seen it shoulder to shoulder and for the CO's I'm sure it's just overwelming.
> I'd love to take my kids up there in the thick of the run and let them give it a try, but don't dare!


Good point, that's where the river watch comes in. It's definitly helped--at least on the weekends that it is in effect. Your last sentence in that quote is why I volunteer for it...I want to be able to take my sons to a publically funded access site without having to expose them to a gang that makes European soccer hooligans look like peace loving, Hari Krishna's!

I'm thinking about posting a invite for a river watch outting one day this fall...get a bunch of guys to meet up at the north side of Tippy and show a little M-S support for legal fishing and our CO's. Anyone interested? We could pick a Saturday on one of the watch weekends and "git-r-done!"


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## MPsteelheader (May 2, 2000)

ill be up there on labor day weekend...

im borrowing my buddies cell phone...

because my nextel doesn't work up in manistee county...

actually if you want to really discourage those yankers...

if a sizeable amount of legal guys come down there...

usually the snaggers leave...

so lets get up there in mass quantity and show em we mean business this year!

cya on the river,

mark


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

When they've driven all the way up to Tippy from Indiana, it takes more than legal fisherman next to them to leave. Hell, you can stand right behind them in a orange vest with a cell phone and they'll continue snagging and keep fish.


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## phlyphisher (Aug 15, 2001)

Yeah, what caddis just said!

I don't know how many times while we're on the watch that people will continue to violate right in front of us and keep fish that were obviously foul right in front of us, knowing full well that we'd report the violations. 

This perceived strength in numbers trick doesn't usually work and only ends up in confrontations. It's best to have the COs do the dirty work -- that's why it's so important to report all of the violations that you observe at any time.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

It just makes you laugh, when like Joe said, you watch some guy snag a fish, he fights it downstream in hopes that you won't follow, lands it at the launch, looks up to see you watch him take the fly out of the ass, stringers it up while his buddy exclaims "right in the chops"(as if that'll fool you), and then looks shocked when he get's a ticket.

I don't know what the fine is, but fish greed drives some people to do some pretty stupid things.

You almost wonder if there is an urban myth up there that if it's just a watcher and not a CO that sees the crime that your home free? Either that, or just a lot of stupid people.


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## MPsteelheader (May 2, 2000)

eh...

what i dont know is why they keep all those nasty kings...

they taste like **** when they're that black...

i saw one guy up there with at least 10 kings on his stringer!!!

he got his up in the lot it was pretty funny watching him get over 1000 bucks in fines...


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## stelmon (Sep 21, 2000)

I am not sure what the ticket price is for attempting to snag but I am pretty sure that's is 10 dollars a pound. That's not including all the other violations he might be in such as over the limit, legal size, ect. I am 99% sure that 10 dollars a pound is what is cost a snagger if caught. Correct me if I am wrong.

Hey Erik,
TC is right on. I tried to bust a few steelhead snagger last spring but since the CO wasn't there and all my witnesses were gone, the CO couldn't do anything so he let them go. Last fall the grandpa I got busted only got fined for two fish out of the 8 he snagged just because the CO didn't see thsoe fish snagged. Sometime I wonder if the court is ont here side. If only I had a digi camera that took videos I could get them good. 

I could just see it "hey guys, mind if I video tape you landing this fish"
Them: "Sure man, look at that fight."

I swear, snaggers are one the dumbest people out there.


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## Erik (Jan 17, 2000)

The way I understand it is, attempting to snag fish is a pretty hefty fine. It's a set fine and because you don't have to actually land or keep the fish it is not set by weight. The problem is the burden of proof of intent. Much harder to prove that someone is attempting to snag than it is to prove they kept a foul hooked fish. Thats why the COs wait until the subject keeps a foul hooked fish. The fine is less, but it's more likely to hold up in court. Pretty screwed up if you ask me. It's the attempting to snag part that hurts the fishery.
Maybe if COs carried cameras like the state police do in their vehicles? If nothing else it would make for some comical entertainment. 
What I'd really like to know... excuse me, what I'd really really really like to know is, how come when you talk about it on the internet, and certain places, it's seems like so many people hate snagging, but when you head to the river theres times when everyone up the bank as far as the eye can see are ripping and jerking? And why do so many fishermen who hate snagging, continue to do business with tackle shops that not only sell snagging equipment, they actually recamend it to first time vistors as the equipment of choice for river salmon "anglers"?


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## kingfisher2 (Mar 22, 2001)

TSS...not all people from Indiana are snaggers....I know you were just making reference about the distance of travel, not the fishing ethics of HOOSIERS.....  

Marc


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

Now if you are using legal equipment, do you still get funed for attempting? How do they know you are attempting? Until you actually land and "keep" a few? The rule book says all foul hooked must be reurned to the water immediately so if you return the fish the court might have a tough time even though we know what the intent was that is why they wait to get them keeping the fish first JMO. I will never go to Tippy again!!!!! Rude, inconsiderate, slobs shoulder to shoulder. I'tt take a quieter hole downstream with less fish and less people otherwise it just isn't relaxing at all.

AW


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Erik, it always amazes me how people can fool themselves that they are not snagging. I bet half those people you see have convinced themselves that they are legit even with 99% of the people doing the "end of drift sweep" or "end of drift hookset", not to mention setting in the "bump".

I was fishing Tunk with TC the other year. Some guys come down and fish below us. Big trebles with a big hunk of red yard was the ticket along with quite a bit of ripping. After hooking about 3 fish in 10 minutes, TC being more outspoken since he had some back up, states sarcastically "Damn man, your killing them. What are ya getting them on". The guy not catching the sarcasim states in all seriousness "Red yarn". This guy was ripping like crazy, dragging the fish in the the tail and somehow convinced himself he wasn't doing anything wrong.

KF, I know it's wrong to say, but it seems the vast majority of fisherman with "accents" that you see at Tippy are ripping fish. But heck, I guess that put's them into the bucket with the 95% of Michigan salmon anglers that are doing the same.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

If you disagree with snagging fish, and want to make a difference, then you have to report people who are snagging - or attempting to snag fish. If you let them go, they get away with it. If they get caught and ticketed - and subsequently fined, then they might be discouraged from doing it again. If they do it again, and get caught and ticketed and fined, then maybe the next time they will change the way they fish. Eventually, people who are busted a lot can spend time in jail and pay huge fines. They can even be considered habitual offenders and be charged with felonies.

The CO's work their a$$es off in the Northwest part of the State during the peak of the Salmon run; but they cannot be everywhere or see everyone all day and night. They need more help. If you see someone violating, and you care to change things, report them. 

I am not really all that concerned with people taking spawning Salmon, as much as I am about safety for people fishing. Snaggers use methods that endanger a lot of people. Everyone should be able to fish safely.


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## Hamilton Reef (Jan 20, 2000)

I hear the complaints every year coming from the fly-only zones of the PM River and up on the Muskegon River where the double fly rigs are used with one fly being a bright spawn fly (sight fly). Notice on the TV show videos how many fish are lost and how quickly they unhook fish while the camera is pointed away at the smiling face of the angler or the river scenery.


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

I see people on the PM all of the time snagging with flies. I think what it comes down to is to be good at catching salmon it takes a knack and a feel to it. I do not have that knack but I still get a few fish every year and yes I ocassionally foul hook one "not intentionally" because of the lack of skill in catching a fish that is not really feeding. I think those people who have no skill in catching salmon get frustrated and start ripping because people tell them that is how you get them. And places like Tippy get a lot of first timers snagging because they get frustrated looking at the guy next to them with a stringer full of fish because he is snagging so the next guy sayd well I want some too. I am not saying it is right but at the same time we call dnr every year on the PM not for snaggers but people spearing :yikes: You know it isn't your day when you are spearing at night and the dnr says "good evening catching any?" :lol: You should see the looks on their faces when that happens and they try to drop the spears asap. People get greedy and they stray from legal methods and we need to do our part to keep it as clean as possible by helping the CO's do their jobs.

JMO

AW


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## feeshermann (Feb 7, 2002)

Here's an amusing thing that happened on last year's watch: I observed a guy and his 8-10 year old son "fishing" by the boat launch. The Dad was smoking a joint at the same time he was wrestling with a salmon that was snagged in the butt(one of those touching, Father/son moments). Fortunately, CO Converse was watching the whole thing from downstream. After the fish was out of the net, he came over to me and verified that it was hooked outside the mouth and wrote him a nice ticket. Sometime before he came over, the joint magically disappeared. I just love when the white trash bring their kids to "learn em how to fish." I wonder what they'd think if us Michiganians came down to their backwards states and snagged all their bass and littered their lakes and rivers! Can't wait to see all the OHIA license plates around here - the FIFOs are coming, Please consider donating some time to the riverwatch this fall - you get to be "the man" (how many times have you said to yourself - "I wish the DNR was here"), and you get to fish at the same time, so there is no excuse not to do it. Hope to see a bunch of you there this year!


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