# poor hunting tactics



## mr bill (Dec 4, 2007)

i watch some very poor hunting tactics from fellow turkey hunters during my week hunt and during some scouting before the season. i saw a lot of peaple driving up and down the two tracks and making calls from their vehicals. 
what makes me the madess is that most of these people, at least the ones that i talked with, didn't even have the same hunt that i had. 

because of these few miss guide souls i had to start with a very hard hunt. the birds would not come to any type of calling. i had to fall back on the sit and wait in the areas that i know these birds were using. 

i just wanted to say i was very disappointed in how many of my fellow turkey hunters are to lazy to do the right thing and put in the hours and the leg work that is needed to have a great hunt.


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## buck11pt24 (Mar 11, 2007)

4 or 5 years ago I went to some state land and practiced calling in birds and learning my calls before season. It is because of this practice that I call in many birds every years for family, friends and myself. Is this what you consider poor hunting practices? I learned a great deal from this early season practicing, in an area I didn't plan on hunting, nor did I. If it wern't for this early season practice I would have many mistakes to learn during my actual hunt, but instead I put them aside and learned a great deal.


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## Moss_835 (Feb 1, 2002)

I can totally understand how "mr bill " feels, since I only hunt public land this happens to me each and every year. I also can not be to hard on those that want to practice calling turkeys on public land that they do not intend to hunt. It is public land and there are no rules against what they are doing. 
There may be an ethicial issue here, but in my 40+ years of hunting, fishing, and using the natural resources here in Michigan. I have found it much easier to work harder than the next fellow in order to enjoy my sport. 
Life is just to short to have all kinds of stress trying to make people understand every action they do. Is like a stone thrown in a pond, the ripples effect the whole pond.

Moss


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## Sparky23 (Aug 15, 2007)

Not trying to start anyhtng, but just my 2 cents. You may not find it to be a good hunting tactic, but there is nothng illegal about it, and it sure does cover ground quick and find hot birds. I hunt mostly private land but have called in quite a few birds on state land for friends, and have used this tactic, and it has worked great. I guess U could call it the easy way out, but i like hearing them talk and watching them come in. And it seemd to work, maybe try it urself.


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

buck11pt24 said:


> 4 or 5 years ago I went to some state land and practiced calling in birds and learning my calls before season. It is because of this practice that I call in many birds every years for family, friends and myself. Is this what you consider poor hunting practices? I learned a great deal from this early season practicing, in an area I didn't plan on hunting, nor did I. If it wern't for this early season practice I would have many mistakes to learn during my actual hunt, but instead I put them aside and learned a great deal.



That's wonderfull.  Please share with me where this ground is you like to hunt. I'll go and practice _my_ calling there a few days before _your _season opens and we'll see if you stilll feel the same way a week into your hunt.

It's illegal in most states to do this, and for good reason. 
Ya, it's legal here. It's also selfish.

Just because you_ could_, doesn't mean you _should_.

There are plenty of videos out with real hens to practice to. 
There is absoulty no reason to ruin another guys hunt by calling to birds before yours.


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## EdB (Feb 28, 2002)

Thunderhead 

My bud was out early yesterday and got set up. After he was in two more cars of guys came behind him and parked in the same pull off and came in yelping, owl hooting and throwing some lousy gobble calls. Pretty much non-stop for the first hour. If someone is parked at a public land pull off, your a lot better off going down the road to an open one than following in another guy and competing for the same birds. Both hunters lose most of the time when this happens. Yeah it is legal but it's not right.


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

I do a lot of scouting from the roads in areas that I have permission to hunt or on public lands. I never have a turkey call in my possession until I have a valid tag for that season or some one I am calling for has one. All I ever use is locater calls and find plenty of birds all day long with them.

Even when I am hunting, turkey calls are my last choice when trying to locate a bird

This morning I didn't do any calling at all as I didn't want to start a bird for some one else. Come on 6 am Monday.

These problem are the reason we need to keep license sales the way they are now. If there were all over the counter can you imagine the conflicts we would have if they were wide open.

Quote-Thunderhead[It's illegal in most states to do this, and for good reason. Ya, it's legal here. It's also selfish]Quote

I personally think that we should push to make it illegal to use a turkey call prior to you or the person you are calling for having a current tag.


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## thundrst (Oct 7, 2007)

I can remember when the DNR sent surveys out to all turkey hunters after the season and some of the questions were aimed at the quality of the hunt and contact with other hunters. Maybee they should do that again. 

Unfortunately there are a lot of inconsiderate or selfish hunters out there. 

I think that they may need to get more restrictive laws regarding state land when it comes to turkey hunting tactics or issue fewer permits for public land. My 2 cents... John H.


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## bigmike (Oct 21, 2004)

Thunderhead is right on track!!!!! NOT GOOD!!!!!!!!:sad:


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## hyrax (Nov 23, 2007)

Yup!! You guys are right......maybe we should just close PUBLIC land to everyone besides the 'hunters' that were lucky enough to draw a permit. Afterall, mushroom pickers, hikers, bikers, trout fishermen, turkey scouters all have a chance to run into a turkey and spook him.

In fact, I have an even better idea: maybe we should just make it illegal to use calls for everyone but the people that have the last season. I mean why should the folks that have the last season have to deal with 'educated' birds?

This is ridiculous. Athletes don't wait until game time to run plays or try new ones. And videos don't cut it either. I watch sports all the time but somehow I can't do what they do by just watching -- I have to practice.

If the only time you've ever called birds is just to get them to the end of a gun barrel or the tip of an arrow then you don't know 1/2 of what you think you know about calling turkeys!! Leave the weapons at home and bring a camera, you won't believe what you'll learn about calling turkeys.

I have just as much right to enjoy turkeys on PUBLIC land as anyone with a permit does. Just because I didn't draw a permit doesn't mean I should not be able to 'hunt' turkeys. Even if I do have a permit doesn't mean I should have to stay out of the woods. The resource is there for everyone's enjoyment, not just someone who thinks they have an inalienable right to it through a hunting permit.


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## beer and nuts (Jan 2, 2001)

1. Get off the road while your hunting, if you are close enough to see cars pull in and hear the calls, your huntin to close anyways. 2. Scout better and find spots off the beaten path. 3. Private ground.

Whining about other people using the woods-especially stateland, doesn't really go far with me!

I'm a run-gun type hunter and going along two tracks and stopping occasionally to locate hot birds is the way I do it. Rarely just get out and call blind, unless I see tracks, know birds are there etc...

Just today, word from a friend, I found a nice little place to hunt very pressured bird that get hunted 1/2 mile away all day long--and a nice little beaver pond in the sticks with wood ducks...all on stateland but back in a ways. Called in 4 jakes and had a older tom gobbling but off with the hens!


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## Fix_F16 (Feb 15, 2006)

Hyrax,
Your attitude amuses me. It seems that consideration and courtesy are not priorities to you. 




Can you sit in the woods and call 'til your heart's content, even though you're not actually hunting? Sure. Should you? Not in most turkey hunters' opinions. 

Can you walk into a store and let the door slam behind you, right in the face of another person? Sure, it's not illegal. Is it right? NO

Yeah, let's educate all the birds in an area, spoil hunting, not only for yourself, but everyone else, just so you can practice. How about practicing in your car with a CD? If you need to practice, how about taking new hunters out in the woods and calling for them? 

The birds learn enough through legitimate hunting, as the season goes on. Why add to it? Deliberately educating the birds has the same attitude as taking your bag of trash and dumping it in the woods.

Too many people think the world revolves around them and screw everyone else.


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## hyrax (Nov 23, 2007)

Fix-

You are right. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Just because you have a permit doesn't exempt you from needing to be considerate for anybody else that wants to use PUBLIC land. Why do you think a permit is the end-all-be-all exclusivity entitlement to the resource? Anybody that thinks this way is the epitome of "screw everybody else." Courtesy and consideration are among my top priorities. 

Anyway, calling does NOT 'educate' birds. Scaring them off when they respond to the call does. I've been hunting turkeys for 25 years in both high pressure public land and low pressure private land. A mature tom is hard to kill in either situation. I've called the same bird in 3 mornings in a row before my season only to take him on the 4th once my season opened. The only 'education' he got was that he needed to respond faster.

Again, if the only time you are calling birds is to kill them, then you really don't know as much as you could about calling birds. I personally don't want to waste any of a short season on practice. I'd rather enjoy the entirety of the spring season by calling birds -- anytime I can. Any turkey hunter will tell you that calling them in is the most enjoyable aspect of the sport. Why can't I enjoy the sport with or without a gun? Why do you think the only reason to call a bird is to a gun? Why do you think having a permit somehow legitmizes your partaking of the resource? I shouldn't call a bird to a camera because some other guy just might happen upon the same bird sometime while he's hunting? Somehow I'm an inconsiderate nuisance because I don't have a gun in my hand? Talk about thinking the world revolves around you. 

Calling them doesn't make them any tougher to hunt. Hens call all year long, toms don't run from them. It's first few gun shots at close range or close encounters with humans that 'educate' birds.


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

hyrax said:


> If the only time you've ever called birds is just to get them to the end of a gun barrel or the tip of an arrow then you don't know 1/2 of what you think you know about calling turkeys!!


LOLOLOLOL 

Why don't you enlighten us with your vast knowledge of Turkey Calling divine one ?

What a joke.


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## CMRM (Jul 31, 2006)

> Anyway, calling does NOT 'educate' birds


Everybody else that knows anything about turkey hunting disagrees with you.


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

hyrax said:


> Anyway, calling does NOT 'educate' birds. Scaring them off when they respond to the call does. I've been hunting turkeys for 25 years



2 posts and both of them confrontational. Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Calling before season doesn't " educate" birds huh ? LOL Ummmm ok.
Why do I not believe you have been hunting Turkeys as long as you claim.....lolol


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## melvvin (Nov 21, 2007)

Thunderhead said:


> That's wonderfull.  Please share with me where this ground is you like to hunt. I'll go and practice _my_ calling there a few days before _your _season opens and we'll see if you stilll feel the same way a week into your hunt.
> 
> It's illegal in most states to do this, and for good reason.
> Ya, it's legal here. It's also selfish.
> ...



Man another great post I could not have said it any better myself. If you need help calling I can help too we'll cover twice the ground. I can't believe how alot of these hunters can be so selfish. But then again ya run into the same things waterfowl hunting.


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## beer and nuts (Jan 2, 2001)

Calling without Human "intervention" does not educate the birds. Calling and having the birds come...and seeing you/alerted/spooked/etc... edcuates the birds. Calling and having the birds come within shooting distance of your car...educates the birds. But just calling getting a response and getting out of the area before the bird sees you...hhmmmm.. don't think so. 

Example: Evening hunt last night, saw the two toms alone, got setup and called for 20 minutes...no gobble no nothing...these birds are very very hard to get off the private property and on to some I have permission...by the time I got up drove up, they had covered 300 yards back to the safe-haven of the backyard where they always were...they heard my calling and ran I'm sure. Over the years hunting this, its very rare to egt them to come off the other property. Decided to return at 8:30am today to see where they were at, walking with hens on the private property, get setup again, this time they gobbled and the hens brought one close in, gobbling whenever I hit the same calls, same location same setup....12 hours apart. Dead bird...got the smaller one 8 inch 18 pounds. the other one was 100 yards away with another hen!


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## steve1983 (Sep 26, 2006)

If it is state land, public land whatever anyone that want's to be on the land can be!!! just because you are hunting it doesnt give you the right to be all pissed off because someone else is on the land to!! if you dont like sharing state land, lease land and quit whining.


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## hyrax (Nov 23, 2007)

If calling educates birds then how is it possible to call in the same birds morning after morning? Or how can you work a bird all season long with no success and then later in the season he comes in tripping over his beard like he's never seen a hen before? It seems to me if they get educated by calling then these things wouldn't be possible. Yet they happen on a frequent basis.

The turkeys are the best teachers and learning to call them comes through practicing on them. Videos and CD's may be a place to start but they are not the real deal. And if the only practice you get is during your season with a gun in your hand then you aren't getting enough practice.

Of course, according to some, the only people that should be allowed to call turkeys are permit holders and then only during their respective seasons. That's just stupid.


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## EdB (Feb 28, 2002)

This is not about keeping everyone who doesn't have a turkey license off of public land. I don't know any turkey hunters who feel that way. The issue is about calling turkeys when you aren't hunting. If you have a license and want to go road yelping, go for it. But with a little pre-season scouting effort, you don't need to do that to find birds. 

I can't believe anyone who is a turkey hunter and knows anything about the sport would advocate going practise calling pre-season or during the season. And if you think your going out practice calling or calling them in for a camera and turkeys never see you and you never educate them, you really misunderstand the turkey woods. Sure you can fool a few of them, especially in some private honey hole. You still have to walk in, you have to walk out and turkeys will know of your presence. If your not in a fully concealed blind, there are a couple turkeys you never see for every one you do. They came in and saw you moving or working a call and left and you never knew they were there. If you want to practice, get a tape or CD. If you want to take pictures, start on June 1st and you've got the next 10 months. If your such a great turkey guru, you can call plenty to the camera then. 

As far as the mushroom hunters, hikers, birdwatchers, enjoy the woods and I'll go the other way if I see you when I'm hunting. But if your out calling turkeys for fun and practice when your not hunting and other sportsman are, that's just rude, selfish and inconsiderate.

It's sad because we rarely have this BS on this forum. Hyrax, I always welcome new members but this time, please go find another forum to join and start arguments.


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## hyrax (Nov 23, 2007)

I apologize for coming on so strong and for being so confrontational. It just really, really irks me when folks come out and discriminate against a user group on public land.

It is especially bothersome here because the reason for discriminating is pure opinion. There is no proof that some guy calling to a bird before you hunt him has any more affect on your hunting experience than a mushroom picker that happens by at an inopportune moment. In fact, the second instance will, in all likelihood, affect you far more. That is assuming that responsible calling to a bird has any effect on him at all (which I believe does not).


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## stickem (Oct 31, 2007)

yall whine waay too much.....if i was out turkey hunting on public land and a persone mushrooming,scouting just plain walking threw the woods to be out in nature.. i wouldnt be mad at them..its PUBLIC LAND...ive ran into a few hunters on public land durring turkey hunting whille mushrooming..i said "ohh sorry" and walked off....its people like yall that makes public land harder and harder to keep open bc u whine too much about people other than "hunters"..jeeze!!


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## Krull (Mar 29, 2005)

As a new Turkey hunter (2 years) this thread is quite amusing. I can see that there are some very knowledgable and opinionated people here and I have been a spectatur in this forum because I can learn a lot more than I can add at this point. That said, there are a couple points I would like to bring up. 
A) There are valid points on both sides of the argument.
B) Common curteousy says if you know someone else is hunting an area, whether it be deer, duck, turkey,ect.. you should not knowingly infringe on their enjoyment or chances of success.
C) That said, state land is state land and everyone has equal rights to use that land as long as they are utilizing it legally. I only hunt on state land so unfortunately I have learned the hard way that it is what it is. 
D) I have always heard that birds become "educated". If turkey hunting is at all simialr to duck hunting I have to believe this to be true. In any hunting activity for virtually any animal, my feeling is that your best chances for success are early in the season. I am stating this as an opinion, not a fact. This is the exact reason I put in for the first turkey hunt. Regardless if people are out practicing or not, birds on State land are going to be a lot more educated on May 5th than they are on April 21st.
E) Practice in the field is the only way someone is going to get better, as it is the only way to get real feedback, CD's, DVD's, they are all great but they are not responsive animals. Ideally this practice is done during an actual hunt, but not all hunters have mentors or teachers to go out with them, some people simply have to "wing" it. I give these people a lot of credit for attempting something new.
E) Telling someone to go to another forum because they do not agree with you is just plain wrong. Open discussion is how people learn things on these forum and why it is valuable. Sometimes agreeing to disagree is the best course of action, trust the readers to come to their own conclusions about whom is right or wrong.


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## Firefighter (Feb 14, 2007)

Krull said:


> As a new Turkey hunter (2 years) this thread is quite amusing. I can see that there are some very knowledgable and opinionated people here and I have been a spectatur in this forum because I can learn a lot more than I can add at this point. That said, there are a couple points I would like to bring up.
> A) There are valid points on both sides of the argument.
> B) Common curteousy says if you know someone else is hunting an area, whether it be deer, duck, turkey,ect.. you should not knowingly infringe on their enjoyment or chances of success.
> C) That said, state land is state land and everyone has equal rights to use that land as long as they are utilizing it legally. I only hunt on state land so unfortunately I have learned the hard way that it is what it is.
> ...


well said


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## EdB (Feb 28, 2002)

Your right Krull, that was a bit harsh.

Welcome Hyrax, we won't change each others mind on this subject.


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

Ok, here it is. 

Man calls bird, bird gobbles, man leaves.

Bird comes in looking for hen.

Bird finds _no _hen.

Bird leaves.

Man come back with gun, camara, whatever.

Man calls bird.

Bird gobbles, BUT, Bird wants to _SEE_ hen before committing to come in all the way this time resulting in a hung up bird.

Bird sees no hen. 

Bird walks away.

Hunter/Nature watcher/photographer screwed.

ie: EDUCATED.


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## hyrax (Nov 23, 2007)

Thunderhead-

As a turkey hunting guide, I am willing to bet that you have had everyone of the following experiences over your years of hunting:


You've worked the same bird multiple mornings before you tagged him.
You've worked birds that took you all season to tag - more than the average guy would've been able to work him if he only hunted for the days on his permit.
You've worked birds before the season to understand what they were and how/if they would come in to a certain set-up you wanted to try for your clients.
You've used past calling experiences to hone your set-ups in specific areas where you hunt.
You've tried things out to see if they'd work before you did it for a client - be it a new calling strategy, a new decoy set-up, etc.
I would also be surprised if you could honestly say you've never called a bird all the way in without a weapon in tow.

All of these things required that you spent much more time in the woods interacting with the live wild birds than the average guy does/can if he only hunted for the dates on his permit.


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## beer and nuts (Jan 2, 2001)

A few on here have waaaayyyyy to big a chip on their shoulder! Calling a bird multiple times to your call proves alot...not calling/killing a bird opening day the first season proves alot too!!! Location location...every day is different...every bird is different each day....no rule is 100% in the turkey world. "Educating turkeys" is a way over rated statement! Proven!!!


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

hyrax said:


> Thunderhead-
> 
> As a turkey hunting guide, I am willing to bet that you have had everyone of the following experiences over your years of hunting:
> 
> ...


_You'd lose that bet_.

1) I wouldn't know. Possible. A gobble is a gobble is a gobble. Unless he's close and I can identify him again, I wouldn't be able to tell. Then again, if he's close enough to identify, he's dead.

2) Very rare. I hunt the same ground maybe twice a season. Maybe. All of my hunters are hunting fresh, undisturbed private ground that I hunt exclusivly with the exception of one or two and those I rarely hunt.

3) No way, no how. Never. Nadda. Rookie mistake.

4) Of course. It's called gaining experience.

5) See #3. 
Rookie mistake. I've been doing this long enough to know that calling birds or whatever before season is going to make it that much tougher to try and call them in again.
Nope, never done it and never will. That makes no sense to me.
To address the last part of the question, I don't call Turkeys in for the fun of it. Why would I want to do that ?

I pay attention to_ everything_ whenever I'm in the woods at any time of the year and become a part of it. I can't put into words a feeling.

All I can pass on is what _I've _observed and learned. Doesn't matter to me if a guy wants to mess up his ground before he hunts................as long as it's not where I'm going to be. 

I don't have a chip on my shoulder, nor do I claim to be an expert in _anything_.
I _do_ know enough to be dangerous. 

To each his own, do whatever you want to.
Not part of my world.


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## hyrax (Nov 23, 2007)

Back in 1983 a guy by the name of Jim Clay spent some time with me at a hunting show. He told me, "The only way to learn to call turkeys is by calling turkeys. Go out before your season and practice. Just don't let them see you, cover yourself up with leaves if you have to." He went on to say that he himself goes out before the season and calls.

I may have lost the last bet (I was stretching on that one a bit) but I doubt that I would lose this bet: Jim Clay doesn't make 'rookie' mistakes.

The fact is it takes more time to learn to call turkeys than the days allowed on a permit. Why would we discourage fellow hunters from learning our sport by telling him he's being selfish for calling to birds without a permit?


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## EdB (Feb 28, 2002)

You can extend your time in the turkey woods by helping others. I've taught dozens how to turkey hunt including many kids. As a result, I spend 4-6 weeks hunting every year but only carry a gun for a week or less.


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## beer and nuts (Jan 2, 2001)

> You can extend your time in the turkey woods by helping others. I've taught dozens how to turkey hunt including many kids. As a result, I spend 4-6 weeks hunting every year but only carry a gun for a week or less.


 Same here, on my third week and expect to go till end of may, not everyday now(was on 9 days straight at 4:50am getting up) but every morning I can(son's and friends tags), luckily its my daughter b-day Tuesday and I get to take her to McDonalds before school for breakfast--that means sleeping another hour or so!!!


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## jackbob42 (Nov 12, 2003)

Last sunday , when I killed my bird , there were two other toms that came with him. When I shot him , the other two started flogging him. I watched the show for about 10 minutes. How educated did they get? I mean , they were called in and their buddy was killed ( with a LOUD bang ! ) and they jumped on him. They didn't even want to leave when I got up.
Most all of us have seen this same scenario either in the woods or on tv.
The fall before last , I shot at a tom and missed ( or so I thought ). The turkeys scattered , ran a little ways and stopped. Looked around for about 5 minutes and then went back to feeding. I waited 2 hours for them to feed down the field and back. Took a second shot at the tom and realized I had gotten a bad box of shells and left. Took a friend back a week later and killed that 25lb tom. We knew it was the same bird as he had a tail feather missing and I had nick-named him one-wholer. How educated was he?
Called in a tom for a kid saturday and he missed him. Called him back in for him again on sunday. How educated was he?
The list could go on and on and I've only hunted turkeys about 10 years. But , some folks have to make like turkey hunting is super-hard and that there's something magical about it. That way they can stay " famous " and be the " go to " guy. I used to hunt with a guy who was that way. It didn't take me long to surpass his knowledge and experience. Am I " special " ? Heck no ! I just got my butt off the couch and got out in the woods and learned. And the only way to learn to call tukeys is to call turkeys !
And some of you guys who say you've never called birds before season need to remember that there are other members who may have seen otherwise.:coolgleam
There is no doubt in my mind that the birds I hunt have been called to , though mostly from the road probably. But , they have been called to. I can't do nothing about it except to get better at calling them.
Now , if you go in and pester them day after day , sure , they'll wise up. But I don't believe once in awhile is gonna hurt anything.


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## MERGANZER (Aug 24, 2006)

First off I would be very angry if someone used my property for a training ground and educated the birds prior to the season yes "educated" them and I have had thata happen to me in years past and it just ruins a great set up that I scouted prior to season.

Second, I wouldn't argue with Thunderhead when it comes to turkey hunting knowledge his resume speaks for itself.

Ganzer


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## stickem (Oct 31, 2007)

jackbob42 said:


> Last sunday , when I killed my bird , there were two other toms that came with him. When I shot him , the other two started flogging him. I watched the show for about 10 minutes. How educated did they get? I mean , they were called in and their buddy was killed ( with a LOUD bang ! ) and they jumped on him. They didn't even want to leave when I got up.
> Most all of us have seen this same scenario either in the woods or on tv.
> The fall before last , I shot at a tom and missed ( or so I thought ). The turkeys scattered , ran a little ways and stopped. Looked around for about 5 minutes and then went back to feeding. I waited 2 hours for them to feed down the field and back. Took a second shot at the tom and realized I had gotten a bad box of shells and left. Took a friend back a week later and killed that 25lb tom. We knew it was the same bird as he had a tail feather missing and I had nick-named him one-wholer. How educated was he?
> Called in a tom for a kid saturday and he missed him. Called him back in for him again on sunday. How educated was he?
> ...


 
well said bob....


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## hyrax (Nov 23, 2007)

jackbob42 said:


> And some of you guys who say you've never called birds before season need to remember that there are other members who may have seen otherwise.:coolgleam


And after you've publicly chastised the practice then you can't very well come out and admit you've done it yourself, now could you?


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## lilsean95 (Mar 6, 2007)

This is why I still hunt MO, IL and IN. These states it is illegal to call a bird out of season and i think for good reason, but nonetheless if it is legal i guess its something you can do. Typical Americans Hunters if it doesnt affect me so what. This is the stuff that PETA, and other people talk about us as hunters. How many times have I heard these people talk about hunters being selfish and they are right. I can say where I hunt in IL and MO it is private land and that is good but in IN i hunt public land and have had great experience with people, but Michigan Public Land scares me and alot because of what I see in theses forums and how we just dont get it, but once again it is public land and you can do 2 things stand on principle or not and most of you chose not too. Sportsmen (oxymoron):yikes:


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## Fix_F16 (Feb 15, 2006)

If you can call birds in and it doesn't affect them, how is it many become so call shy toward the end of the season? 

Most hunters agree that call shyness exists. If calling doesn't do it, what does?


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

Fix_F16 said:


> If you can call birds in and it doesn't affect them, how is it many become so call shy toward the end of the season?
> 
> Most hunters agree that call shyness exists. If calling doesn't do it, what does?


Cause they got an education.....lol 

_Does anybody even know this hyrax guy _? He comes out of nowhere, stirs everybody up with his first few posts and will probably disappear.
His profile isn't even filled out. 

That's the beauty of the internet. A guy can claim to be anybody and know anything without any proof that he's not talking out his ass.

I for one am not going to play anymore. I think this thread is bullcrap and he's sitting back laughing at us.

Any Turkey hunter worth their salt knows that birds become call shy, educated or whatever you want to call it after being called in so many times.

They may respond, they may even come in a bit, but 99 times out of 100 they won't commit till they see the hen and eventually turn and walk away. 

We are all friends on this forum, lets keep it that way and not allow the **** that happens on the other forums to tarnish the Turkey board.


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## Molson (Apr 18, 2003)

beer and nuts said:


> how do I knwo it is the same bird?? Easy...when your dealing with a huge amount of birds like you might have on your properties, it would be difficult. BUT up here, the places I hunt this year and in the past few years...there might be 1-3 toms ONLY, on certain properties/areas thats it and more often than not, its one big one(9-10 inches), a 2 year old(8 inches) and a jake or two or 5. Sure there could be one that ventures in from afar under the cover of darkeness but more times than not the birds up here are pretty consistent. How do I know its the same bird---scouting!! Up here, we don't have the open fields to locate the birds via long distance binos, its alot of running/gunning/calling to locate the birds, two tracks,etc..
> 
> Big woods hunting is alot different than open field hunting...I do both and have both setups to hunt and its way different hunting, from calling to setups. I'd rather do big woods hunting.



I agree with this. I hunt the same environment and probably some of the same turf as B&N based on past posts. Had one big boy go into hiding when other hunters pressured him w/o taking care to be stealthy and call well. I could readily find fresh tracks but ... 

I have hunted both big woods and field/pasture/woodlot/rangeland etc, in state and out-of-state.

I have to agree that big woods turkeys are a blast and I prefer that environment as well. 




mechanical head said:


> Now for what its worth and I&#8217;m sure to most it isn&#8217;t squat, but I&#8217;ve spent a few days in the woods and as most hunters, learned some, taught some, and been humbled many a times. My thoughts are you want to learn about turkeys, get in the woods, if you don&#8217;t have a tag, so what, get up 4am get in the woods, listen, watch, be still, don&#8217;t make a noise and you&#8217;ll hear everything you want and then some about turkeys&#8230;They may not chat everyday, and you may not hear much, that&#8217;s alright, that what there hearing, not much right..Watch birds and pattern them, find out where they like to be at 7am, 1pm, 4pm, and etc, watch listen and learn, you don&#8217;t need to call, or make any noise for that matter..
> Mother Nature is just something amazing, can birds learn, can they be educated, can they be over pressured, I&#8217;m not sure but do deer look up, why should they? My thoughts are yes, Mother Nature educates maybe not all birds, and not at all times, like mentioned many and many times have I had success multiple times on the same birds, and yes I&#8217;ve shot many times from one location and bagged multiple birds, but those are an exception, and not the rule, those are the unreal days, the days we all talk about and say what the world was that all about. The days in field that no one post or hears about is the norm, no success, no shots, no luck, no response so on and on. I will say young birds are like young bucks, there fun and yes they can be easy at times, but just like the highest goose in the flock, old mature Toms have seen the best, heard the best, and there hooks just keep on a growing.. There are many and many tools to learn about hunting in general, lots of goods ones to, like this forum for example, my thoughts are to explore the tools that will not disrupt the woods, I feel you&#8217;ll be much better of coming and going to and from scouting without a trace that you were there, being deer, bear, or turkeys, that's just my thoughts, for what its worth...



And I definitely align with MH's comments. Same thought process for me ...again. 

I have more than once silently followed a bird. Not all, but some, can take you on a multi-mile jaunt. Patience and listening pays off.

Two different posters & opinions. But I find "MY" beliefs in both.


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## mr bill (Dec 4, 2007)

yes i really like how this thread has gone, it has the makings of a good learning tool for someone some day. i would like to say i didn't start this to condem or promote any surtain hunting practices. maybe i should have named this thread lazy or selfish tactics. i was just disappointed about some people driving down a certain two track and making calls to a bird/birds that was on private land, not just once or twice but several times in a couple of hours. but i am still glad how this thread has turned out because it haas a lot for us to learn from.
now i have to go and get ready to go to a wild game dinner and listen to a speaker that makes his own turkey calls and maybe i can learn something new from him also.


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## casscityalum (Aug 27, 2007)

Thunderhead=When I get back to going up to Rose City your welcome to join us in our Big woods environment. Great times and totally different hunting....


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## Fur-minator (Nov 28, 2007)

buck11pt24 said:


> 4 or 5 years ago I went to some state land and practiced calling in birds and learning my calls before season. It is because of this practice that I call in many birds every years for family, friends and myself. Is this what you consider poor hunting practices? I learned a great deal from this early season practicing, in an area I didn't plan on hunting, nor did I. If it wern't for this early season practice I would have many mistakes to learn during my actual hunt, but instead I put them aside and learned a great deal.


 
I think this is the thing that bothers some. Why wouldn't you do this in an area you *were* going to hunt?


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

Quote:
Originally Posted by buck11pt24  
4 or 5 years ago I went to some state land and practiced calling in birds and learning my calls before season. It is because of this practice that I call in many birds every years for family, friends and myself. Is this what you consider poor hunting practices? *I learned a great deal from this early season practicing, in an area I didn't plan on hunting, nor did I. If it wern't for this early season practice I would have many mistakes to learn during my actual hunt, but instead I put them aside and learned a great deal. *


Nice guy. I'm sure everybody that hunted that ground after you got done were just tickled pick you royally screwed it up for them.
If your going to practice, practice on your own hunting ground.

Or will it make the birds call shy ?

Imagine, making mistakes on an _actual hunt _and learning from them ! God forbid.


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## bucknduck (Nov 7, 2003)

I have questions regarding some of the terms used in thi thread. This is just so I have a better understanding.1. I read a number of posts that mentioned &quot;before the season&quot;, the last time I checked, there were 3 seasons. So are we only defending the first season and those of us who hunt the guaranteed hunt are sol? So those who are hunting the last season on state land, are really hunting &quot;educated birds&quot;? 2. Let's say that I'm hunting the late season because I wasn't lucky enough to get a tag for the first season, should I be concerned that someone is hunting the same area of state land in the early hunt and educating the birds?3. How do turkeys tell the difference between someone practicing and educating them, and someone hunting an earlier season? Does this mean I'm getting sloppy seconds or even thirds?4.. I would never consider going out and calling before my season, that's just my personal belief. I hunt a 10 acre piece of private property because I don't want to hunt birds on state land that have been listening to calling 2 weeks prior to my hunt. In a perfect world, every bird that heard someone calling would walk right in and meeting their maker, but that's just not the case for me anyways.5. Is this why us late season guys get a longer seson to hunt is because we are dealing with educated birds, especially hens who may have been with a tom when it was taken out?6. The reason some toms are so tough to call in is because they are with these educated hens?Thanks in advance to the answers to these questions as some of what has been mentioned in this thread leads me to believe what I have feared about hunting state land during any other season other than the first season.BTW-I struck out this year hunting the second season. Just couldn't convince A tom to cross property lines for a closer look in the 2 days that I had available to hunt.


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## melvvin (Nov 21, 2007)

Hunting state land is not that bad it just takes some homework and trail and error. I have hunted state land in so. mich. for years last year I got my tom the third week of the season the year before my son got his the 
third week. The best thing you can do is get at least 1/2 mile from a road. these birds usually haven't been hunted. Its surprising but theres alot of excellent state land that doesn't get hunted you just have to find it.


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