# Saw A Mountain Lion



## Swamp Monster

Freepop, are you hiding that crystal ball? lol....


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## FREEPOP

Nah, I'll be off here till next monday. Have to leave a legacy


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## KEN C

All right I am off this topic, said my piece. Thought I would add a little humor with the song reference. I have been following this pretty close, it would be cool if there really were cougars in Michigan. The closest known true wild population is North Dakota , so they better start heading east. They already be in Minnesota.
uh oh i was wrong there have been scattered confirmed sighting in Minnesota. http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/snapshots/mammals/cougar.html


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## FREEPOP

Come on Ken C, nobody around here knows anything about Black Sabbath


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## Ferg

I love Black Sabbath !

ferg....


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## YpsiDave

This is what has been happening down here. I realize that we are talking about two different areas of teh country but a farmer here in Missouri did kill a MI wolf that had trekked down here a few years back!

"The last known native cougar was killed in 1927 in Missouri's Bootheel region. The first recent sighting was in 1994, when a man shot an adult female cougar in Carter County.

Mountain lions were videotaped in Reynolds County in 1996,in Christian County in 1997 and in Lewis County in 2000. In 1999, a rabbit hunter saw a mountain lion in Texas County, and the discovery of fresh cougar kills nearby confirmed the sighting. The sixth sighting came last October, when a motorist killed a cougar in Clay County near Kansas City."

This last cougar happened two years ago in Kansas City limits and in a busy part of town! I live about 15 miles away from where the animal was hit by a car.

The point is that it is {possible} they exist in Michigan.


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## perry l. rankin

michigan state students have conducted a survey of the entire u.p. on the existence a cougars in the state of michigan, and found scat from at least 10 seperate pairs throughout the u.p. i wish i could remember, but i cannot refer you to my source. a good friend of mine, just east of manistique told me last year that he has seen what he believes to be the same cat for 2 years in a row. this ole' boy is no kook!!!! also they do not shut down an area simply because it contains threatened or endangered species. if that were the case you wouldn't be able to step on 50% of the land in michigan.


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## perry l. rankin

about the only publication i read about mi. hunting and fishing is woods and water. i save most of them so i'll see if i can find the article and post exerpts.


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## Linda G.

Perry, again, that was my article. I can post it for you from my hard drive, but I'm not home right now, I'm in Ohio, so it will have to wait until Sunday. That article was a re-run from a column I ran in Michigan Outdoor News a couple of months ago.

What puzzles the DNR and others within the scientific community, including a number of very reputable universities like MSU is WHY the NPS would actually post signs about something that hasn't been inconclusively proven to exist anywhere in the state, much less in Sleeping Bear. It's not at all scientific, so they MUST have some sort of an agenda, but no one's sure what that may be. Whatever it is, it's frightening to think that one of our federal agencies would go off the deep end like this.

I have no idea what's going on in other states, I'm sure it's very possible that there are wild cougars in other states. Just a year or so ago, a cougar was run over by a train in southern Illinois that was inconclusively proven to be a wild cougar. 

But, so far, in the Lower Peninsula of MI, that hasn't happened.


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## Eastern Yooper

Several Hollywood stars have loudly proclaimed Michael Jackson's innocence.

Kinda reminds me of all the ex-spurts emphatically denying that wild cougars exist in the LP.

When all is said & done, both groups might very well end-up wiping huge amounts of egg off their faces.



> _Originally posted by Linda G. _
> *...do you believe EVERYTHING Eric Sharp writes?? *


I've been reading both your literary works, and Sharp's, for years and years.

And I assure you that I don't believe EVERYTHING either one of you writes.


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## Linda G.

IF it is proven that WILD cougars, from genetic DNA tests, exist in the Lower Peninsula, I'll buy you the eggs, Eastern. 

I don't claim to be an expert of any kind, I've just looked into this subject for a number of years, and I'm not one of those people who believes everything I'm told without reputable proof.

Whether you believe everything you read of my stuff or not is purely up to you, but I'm glad to hear that you continue to read it...and I'm sure Eric is, too. 

Perry-Look into the National Park Service's and U.S. Forest Service's "Wilderness Management Policies"...what's the first thing you'll read? Road closings...


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## Pinefarm

This is certainly interesting, but it's not really "whitetail". Know what I mean? Although, if I was to move it, where should it go? Wildlife sightings?


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## Bucktail Butch

Please refer to the thread "At Sleeping Bear, you're in cougar country" in this forum for more information on this subject. I live in Honor, which is right outside Sleeping Bear NLS, and there is a lot of cougar talk up here but no physical evidence of their existence has been brought forth. If anyone can produce any genuine proof, such as tracks, scat, hair, a dead cougar (not to suggest that anyone kill one), etc., they should call DNR District 6 Headquarters in Cadillac at (231)775-9727 and report it to a wildlife biologist. The MDNR is taking the stance that until such proof can be verified by their specialists, they cannot and will not state that the cats exist in the wild in Michigan. This is as it should be with a responsible government agency.
So far, the only organizations that I know of that have unequivocally stated their belief in the existance of cougars in the state are the National Park Service (come up to Benzie county and ask around about the NPS' trustworthiness and credibility) and the Michigan Wildlife Conservancy. I'm not familiar with that organization or their credentials, but I hope it's just a coincidence that they are headquartered in Bath, home as Fred Trost. 
I'll say no more. I just hope I haven't opened another "can of worms", but if I have fanned the flames, so be it. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion.


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## KEN C

Bucktail butch
Thank you for posting. A common sense approach to this subject is welcomed. Since you live in the area of sleeping bear this makes your observations that more credible. I think the whole thing is bologna and in the end parts of sleeping bear will be closed to all human activity. This is what the whole thing is about.


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## Kevin Smith

I myself am skeptical about the existence of the big felines in MI, though I have heard of sightings from friends that are for the most part reliable. With the number of houndsmen in the state that are active in the outdoors most of the year, surely some would have been caught/treed.

I was at Jay's Sporting Goods in Clare this weekend, and there was a copy of a photo of a man holding a mt lion with caption that it was hit by a car and killed in September this year in Oscoda County. It appeared to be an internet printout from a newspaper in Oscoda Co. ( internet fluff?)

Anyone hear of this? I really discredit a lot of internet rubble, but this area is where I have heard of several sightings from decent folks.
I am trying to get permission in a spot or two for this winter to run my hounds....perhaps they will tree one "accidently" as the law would not allow me to intentionally pursue one should I find a track


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## FREEPOP

If you found a track, persue away. They don't exist. When you tree, shoot away, they don't exist. You can't be violating any game regulations by shooting something that doesn't exist, can you?  

Tell everyone your imaginary friend shot it.


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## n.pike

If you are serious about a place to run your hounds, pm me. I have personally seen a cat in Glennie, but I haven't decided if I am credible. 


No knock on Linda, I do enjoy your posts, but believe very little of what is written in Woods N Waters magazine, I believe all publications have their "agenda" also. It just depends on where the $$ are flowing from. 

Unfortunately, there are so many people willing to argue this subject, and ridicule others for their opinions, but I know for a fact that there is a cat in our area, but the rigors of life demand a job, not time to sit in the woods with a camera waiting for a picture. Do I care if the dnr admits it? Not at all, it would just give them one more thing to screw up. 


I bet Marty and others in the NE have a few things they could add.


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## Kevin Smith

> _Originally posted by FREEPOP _
> *If you found a track, persue away. They don't exist. When you tree, shoot away, they don't exist. You can't be violating any game regulations by shooting something that doesn't exist, can you?
> 
> Tell everyone your imaginary friend shot it. *




LMAO  Good one Freepop!

I have always found it interesting that while for years the DNR said there were no lions, they were on the protected list.  
Look here:

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10363-31425--,00.html

and here:
http://www.state.mi.us/orr/emi/admi...Dpt=NR&RngHigh=


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## FREEPOP

Oops, hold your fire. 

Odd that something that doesn't exist is protected, isn't it?


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## Linda G.

was printed in two other publications prior to being published in Woods N Water News...and if you like, I will be happy to provide you with my sources for that article...I don't make up fairy tales. Names, phone numbers, addresses, whatever you like. 

Freepop, you can't shoot a cougar in Michigan even if they DO exist, because yes, they are protected as an endangered species...take a look at the list, and you'll also find a number of other protected species there that haven't existed in Michigan in more than 100 years. 

The DNR website for cougar sightings was posted as a response to the Michigan Wildlife Habitat Foundation, who claimed that the DNR hasn't done a thing to prove the existence of wild cougars in the state, which isn't true at all. The DNR has gone out and checked out every creditable sighting they're gotten-the problem is, nothing's ever come of any of those sightings...whatever it was just disappeared. I've followed up on a LOT of those sightings, and have talked to dozens of people who said they saw the critter in question...not one real cougar has ever come from any of that, either alive or dead.

Not even the existence of released exotics has been proven...which is what I think is going on, at least in the Lower.


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## perry l. rankin

unfortunately i cannot find the article or issue in any of my saved copies of w-n-w mag. but i don't believe you wrote it. the article descrided scat collections from at least 3 seperate locations across the u.p. including glennie. is it possible that someone else in michigan studies the possibilities of the existence of cougars other than yourself? i don't mean to be arguementative about this, but there are enough large tracts of wilderness in the u.p. that it is ENTIRELY possible that these cats do exist. after allthe d.n.r. says we have only 320 wolves in michigan, when in fact there are prob'ly more than that in ontonagon co. alone. all i'm trying to say is don't be SO sure there are no cats up there.


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## jackbob42

I didn't see the cat but I did see the pictures of it's tracks.
A friend in the U.P. took pictures of some big cat tracks just east of Gladstone a few miles. He put his jacknife next to them for size comparison.They are " Big " cat tracks. I've hunted bobcats for a few years and these are " for sure " cat tracks.
The DNR told him they were wolf tracks. LOL


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## Linda G.

there's been a number of articles about cougars printed in Woods N Waters, and if the one you're thinking of mentions scat in the UP, that wasn't mine. Probably Tom Carney's, who has also been doing a lot of research into cougars lately. 

The first article mentioned on one of these cougar threads here mentioned a sighting west of Torch Lake in nw lower Michigan-that's the article I've got in the current (December) issue of WNWs. 

I believe it is entirely possible that there may be one or two wild cougars running around the UP, I've said that right from the beginning. But so far, none have been produced, not even a clear photograph...

Scat could have come from the local zoo, for all we know, unless a host of people were there when the scat was found to verify that it came from the wilds of Michigan. 

Did the tracks your buddy saw show claw marks, Jackbob? If so, it was most likely a canine of some sort, unless the cat is jumping onto a kill and misses at the time they make the track impression, cats don't move with claws extended.

As for big cats, I know of a bobcat that was killed by dog hunters in the western UP a couple of years ago that weighed in at 62 pounds three days after its death...


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## east bay ed

i know two people who have claimed to see cougars in the alcona county area. one i know for sure knows what a cougar looks like and i am pretty sure the other one does as well.
i am not saying this is a wild cat, but i am saying people around here are seeing something.


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## unregistered55

All this fighting back and forth is worthless. Either they exsist or they don't, Period! Til the day when someone shows 100% Proof we will never know, will we? I have seen a Big Cat in Marquette County. I KNOW what a bobcat looks like, and a linx too. It was about 5 years ago before I started carrying my digital camera around everywhere with me. Should you believe me? It doesn't really matter. I know what I saw and unless it was an escaped pet it was a Mountain Lion. Maybe one day while hunting or fishing I will get a pic...but until then we all go with what we have seen, read, and heard. I personally don't care to hear someone saying " I know they don't exsist, and I am right!" Lets hear what everone has seen not what they HAVEN'T SEEN! Keep the reports OR Stories Coming...It's fun reading and keeps us wondering which keeps our imaginations going and that's a healthy thing!


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## Kevin Smith

> _Originally posted by Linda G. _
> *
> 
> Did the tracks your buddy saw show claw marks, Jackbob? If so, it was most likely a canine of some sort, unless the cat is jumping onto a kill and misses at the time they make the track impression, cats don't move with claws extended.
> 
> As for big cats, I know of a bobcat that was killed by dog hunters in the western UP a couple of years ago that weighed in at 62 pounds three days after its death... *



I know Jackbob....he's a houndsman and avid outdoorsman that would know the difference between a canine and feline track at a glance. I do not doubt him.

Was that 62 lb'er the one taken by Melvin? Prior to that the record was taken by Leo at 54 lbs, wasn't it?
Those are big cats for sure!!


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## Linda G.

It wasn't actually taken by Mel, but by Brian, one of the guys who hunts with Mel. Mel was there, tho. Huge cat. If you saw it, except for the fact that it was gray and had a short tail, it sure looked like a lion.


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## Kevin Smith

Druckenmiller?

I just don't understand how people confuse the 2 cats, they look nothing alike.
Lynx and bobcat, yes. Either of those vs lion, not at all. 

I wish I had been along on that one!

A few years back, I went to California with a few of those boys bear hunting. We saw lion tracks every day, and found a fresh lion kill. He had eaten the lungs and choice organs, leaving what we considered tasty for later. I wouldn't mind having a small population of them in MI, but they would be hard on the deer in any kind of numbers. Very efficient predator.


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## Linda G.

Daining. He called me, looking for information on any state records regarding bobcats. I called all over, and finally concluded that no one keeps anything like that. John Hendrickson told me that he had looked at one in the UP about 20 years ago that weighed 65 pounds, but that was the biggest he had ever heard of.


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## FREEPOP

> _Originally posted by Kevin Smith _
> * I wouldn't mind having a small population of them in MI, but they would be hard on the deer in any kind of numbers. Very efficient predator. *


Maybe the DNR could release some in lower Michigan that are trained to only prey on does


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## Kevin Smith

I thought Leo had advertised in WnW the "state record at 54 lbs" or something like that 6-7 years ago, and I remember I had looked every where I could think of to find records like that being kept. I found nothing either.

That would be interesting though, some one should keep records of things besides B&C and P&Y and skull sizes and such.

65 lbs, 62 lbs, those are amazing. I can see people catching a glimpse of a blur THAT size and their mind going directly to 'lion'.


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## unregistered55

I am sorry but how you can confuse a Mountain Lion with a bobcat or Linx is beyond me. Even if you didn't know what they look like when ya saw it and researched it later there are clear differences. 

Come on everyone which one is the mountain lion?

Number 1










Number 2









Number 3


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## Ferg

Ok I'm guessing here.........number 2?

ferg....LOL
 

Seems most would be able to tell 'on sight'.....


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## Linda G.

who knows...bad eyes? alcohol? Dementia?  

Ever looked at a Labrador Retriever standing in the road 100 yards away?...  


I will never forget the guy who charged into the DNR Fire District office in Bellaire a few years ago in the spring time, where I was helping out the local conservation district with their annual spring tree seedling sale...this guy, a long-time resident of the area who is also an avid outdoorsman, SWORE that there was a dead bear on the side of M-66. Since I had to head out that way anyway to help with a county tree-planting project, I told him I'd stop by and take a look at the dead bear, and report it to the DNR biologist, who would be at the tree planting. 

The dead bear was pretty small, and had this really strange flat tail...aka a beaver...


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## mich buckmaster

> All this fighting back and forth is worthless. Either they exsist or they don't, Period! Til the day when someone shows 100% Proof we will never know, will we?


As I have said in the past. I am a NON believer until they prove it. 

BUT, I am from the SOUTHERN part of Mich. 

So you guys in the north woods have seen many things that I havent


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## unregistered55

A beaver huh Linda? Musta been a "a long-time resident of the area who is also an avid outdoorsman AND Local BAR STOOL!!" LMAO!

Did I ever tell you guys and gals about the time I saw BIGFOOT, aka Sasquash when I was up in the porkies?


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## Shoes

I've personally seen several cougars in Michigan.....that is, until Ford's Lincoln Mercury Division stopped making them.


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## KEN C

He folks a cool website with cougar info. This site looks pretty legit. The people involved look like they have the credentials to prove or disprove cougar evidence. Note: They do not list MWHF as one of there sources. Also note how the mark the michigan sightings with a big ?. Looks like Minnesota is about the closest confirmed cougar.
http://www.easterncougarnet.org


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## whitedog

lots of bober's up here in god's country but lions thats hog wash man i should try some of the drugs these people are on sounds fun lmao


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## MSUICEMAN

i saw sasquatch at the pig roast, it was even more rare that it was the albino variant...... wish i never woulda seen it though I got the pics to prove it!

steve


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