# Dog in a lake.



## ibthetrout (Sep 24, 2003)

I have searched but can not find anything here. Is there a law that states you can not have your dog in state waters or is that some local ordinance? I had my dog in the water at Sugarloaf lake down by the boat ramp and was told by another boater that I could get a ticket. I promptly removed my dog since I don't need that headache, but wonder if that was really true?


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## bigcountrysg (Oct 9, 2006)

The only thing I can come up with is leash law. In most public places you have to have your dog on a 6 ft or shorter leash.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

As big stated the leash law or there could be something specific to that particular access site because of interference of people using the ramp for what it was intented, realizing you were not causing a problem but others, just like people swimming at launches, have maybe caused problem in the past. Just like dogs on many public beaches.

So it isn't so much the dog using the water but the lands adjacent to the water where you are at.


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

Sure would be a bunch of P.Oed duck hunters if that were true


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## john warren (Jan 25, 2005)

my guess is the boater was miss informed. maybe no dogs on the beach.or perhaps confused about a warning from a leo about having a pfd on a dog when in the boat. 
in our town they have a special area at the lake for the dogs to swim in , its mostly about not ending up with droppings on the beach though.


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## peaker power (Oct 30, 2004)

According to the Bay City District DNR Head LEO, any dog off lead in a public area COULD be considered in violation of the dog training on wild game ban from April 15- July 15. 

I called there sevral years ago but the written law has not changed since then.

Not that it would apply to this case but the state leash law has a couple of exceptions in it, one is hunting dogs and I assume this would apply to them while in training and competition. It would be difficult to run a dog in a competition under a state feild trail permit on lead. If memory serves the law saws "hunting dogs" and not dogs being used for hunting.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Hopefully this should answer all dog training questions. Two points as to this particular thread. Just because one is walking their dog or letting their dog swim doesn't automatically fally under training and also the very last sentence in this post about swimming, keeping in mind again the rules that apply to the adjacent upland area.

This hopefully will answer all the dog training questions.

GENERAL DOG TRAINING

*Q. What is dog training?*

Dog training means to chase or locate game animals with a dog outside of the open season for that game. In addition, a person could also train a dog without a firearm during the season open to taking that game.

*Q. What game may I train my dog on in Michigan?*

Dogs may be trained on the same game species that can be hunted with dogs. These species include the following game animals: bear, bobcat, raccoon, opossum, fox, coyote, rabbit, hare, squirrel, duck, geese, coot, Florida gallinule, pheasant, quail, Hungarian partridge, ruffed grouse, sharp-tailed grouse, wild turkey, snipe, woodcock, sora rail, and Virginia rail.

*Q. When can I train my dog on game in Michigan?*

Individuals may train their dogs from July 15 of one year through April 15 of the following year. Persons who desire to train year around can do so upon established dog training areas on state-owned lands, upon private game bird hunting preserves, or by acquiring a Private Dog Training Area Permit for training upon private lands.

*Q. Can I train my dog at any hour?*

No, you can only train your dog during the established hunting hours for that game. For example, training on rabbits can only be conducted during daylight hours; training on raccoon or coyote could be conducted during both daylight and nighttime hours.

*Q. When dog training in Michigan do I need to have a hunting license?*

No, a hunting license is not required unless you are participating in dog training with live ammunition. Special regulations apply when chasing bear or bobcat during their open seasons  a bear or fur harvester license, respectively, is needed to run your dogs on bear or bobcat whether you do or do not have a firearm.

*Q. Can I carry a firearm during the dog training process*?

Yes, an individual may possess a shotgun or handgun while in possession of blank cartridge ammunition when training their dog. 

*Q. If I reside in Michigan do I need to license my dog?*

Yes, for each dog 4 months of age or older you are required to make application for a dog license in your county of residence. A current rabies vaccination will be required to obtain a dog license. Contact your county officials for further information.

A non-residence must provide proof of a current vaccination, and registration for their dog. 

*Q. May a nonresident of Michigan dog train in Michigan?* 

Nonresidents may train their dogs on all species for which dogs may be trained, however, training on bear, bobcat, fox, coyote, raccoon, and opossum by nonresidents is restricted. Nonresidents may train on these species only when either participating in an authorized field dog trial, or from April 16 through July 14 upon a permitted private dog training area.

*Q. May I enter on private property to retrieve my dog?*

Yes, an individual may go onto private property to retrieve their dog if they do not possess a weapon, and leave upon retrieving their dog. However, if a landowner or their agent requests that you leave the property, you are obligated to leave immediately. Also, if an individual has been told either verbally or in writing to stay off the property, that person may not make any future entry upon the property to retrieve a dog. 

*Q. What is a Private Dog Training Area Permit?*

A Private Dog Training Area Permit is a no-cost permit that establishes an area for year around dog training on private lands. This permit allows the permittee and guests to dog train during the season normally closed to training (April 16 through July 14). If you establish a Private Dog Training Area, you can release and shoot exotic birds or pigeons in the training process and engage in other dog training activities year around. Unless allowed by a field dog trial permit, game birds may not be shot except under normal hunting regulations during the open season. A small game license is required when in possession of a firearm with live ammunition. For more information about the Private Dog Training Area Permit, contact the Department of Natural Resources, Wildlife Division, at (517) 373-1263.

*Q. Where are the state-owned lands that are open to year around dog training?*

The year-around, state-owned dog training and/or dog trial areas are as follows:

Allegan County - Section 20, T2N R15W, within the Allegan State Game Area.**

Gladwin County - Sections 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10, T20N R2W, all within the Gladwin Forest Area of the Au Sable River State Forest and known as the Gladwin Field Dog Trial Area.* [This area is only open to organized field dog trials under permit. No individual training of dogs is allowed.]

Ionia County - Section 2, T6N R7W, and section 35, T7N R7W, within the Ionia Recreation Area.**

Ionia County - The SE 1/4 of the SE 1/4 of the SE 1/4 of section 32; that portion of section 33 lying south of Riverside Drive; that portion of the N 1/2 of section 34 lying south of Riverside Drive; the NW 1/4 of section 4 and that portion of section 5 lying south of Riverside Drive, T6N R7W, and the NW 1/4 of the SW 1/4 of section 34, T7N R7W, within the Ionia Recreation Area. [These areas are only open to organized field dog trials under permit. No individual training of dogs is allowed.]

Jackson County - All of sections 24 and 25, and that portion of section 36 north of Sharon Valley Road, T3S R2E, all within the Sharonville State Game Area.**

Lapeer County - Sections 13 and 24 west of Five Lakes Road, T8N R10E, all within the Lapeer State Game Area.** 

Oakland County - That portion of section 26 lying west of Beaumont Road; the following portions of section 35 - the south 1/2 lying east of Pettibone Lake Road, that portion of the NW 1/4 lying between Pettibone Lake Road and Beaumont Road, the south 1/4 of the NE 1/4, the NW 1/4 of the SW 1/4 of the NE 1/4, and that portion of the NW 1/4 of the SW 1/4 lying west of Pettibone Lake Road; the NE 1/4 of the SE 1/4 of section 34; the west 1/2 of the SW 1/4 of section 36; T3N R7E, all within the Highland Recreation Area. ** 

Oakland County - Section 23 east of Jossman Road, T5N R8E, within the Holly Recreation Area.** 

____________________

* Closed to hunting year around, except deer may be taken during their open season on or after November 15 of each year, and beaver and otter may be trapped during their open seasons.

** These areas are open to year around training by both field dog trial participants and individual dog trainers.



Persons interested in more information regarding the designated dog training areas may contact the respective areas at the following addresses and telephone numbers:

Allegan State Game Area, 4590 118th Avenue, Allegan, MI 49010
Phone: (616) 673-2430

Ionia Recreation Area, 2880 W. David Highway, Ionia, MI 48846
Phone: (616) 527-3750

Sharonville State Game Area, (contact) Waterloo State Game Area, R#3, 13578 Seymour Road, Grass Lake, MI 49240
Phone: (517) 522-4097

Lapeer State Game Area, 3116 Vernor Road, Lapeer, MI 48446
Phone: (810) 664-8355

Highland Recreation Area, 5200 E. Highland Road, White Lake, MI 48383
Phone: (248) 685-2433

Holly Recreation Area, 8100 Grange Hall Road, Holly, MI 48442
Phone: (248) 634-8811

*Q. Can I train my dog in a state park, state recreation area, wildlife sanctuary, or wildlife refuge?*

Those portions of state parks and state recreation areas open to hunting are open to dog training from July 15 through April 15; however, unless specifically authorized by a field dog trial permit, no shooting of birds or possession of loaded firearms is allowed while dog training in a state park or recreation area except on lands open to hunting from September 15 through March 31. Except for hunting, dog trials or dog training, all dogs in a state park or recreation area are required to be on a 6-foot or shorter leash. All wildlife refuges and wildlife sanctuaries are closed to dog training.

BIRD DOG TRAINING

*Q. I would like to train my dog on live captive-bred birds during the closed hunting season. What are my alternatives?*

First, there are two categories of captive birds which can be used: 1) game birds, and 2) exotic birds.

The most popular game birds used for dog training are pheasants (ring-necked, black-necked, and all "look-a-likes"), bobwhite quail, mallard ducks and Hungarian partridge. Ring-necked pheasants and black-necked pheasants ("look-a-likes") include any breeds that resemble in color, size and appearance either the ring-necked or black-necked pheasant. Except for a special rule on the recapture of bobwhite quail, once released, captive game birds cannot be shot or recaptured except by legal hunting during the open season for that game bird.

The most popular exotics are the chukar partridge, feral pigeon and coturnix quail. Exotics are favored by some dog trainers because they can be released and shot year around with a small game license in any area open to hunting.

Both captive game birds and the exotics are available from private breeders in Michigan. For a listing of breeders in your area, contact the Michigan Association of Gamebird Breeders & Hunting Preserves, 975 W. Townline 16 Road, Pinconning, MI 48650; Phone: 517-879-5401. You may also want to visit their web site: http://www.centuryinter.net/magb-hp/

Another alternative is to contact a licensed game bird hunting preserve. Hunting preserves have an extended hunting season, from July 15 through April 30, and can allow year around dog training and the shooting of exotics for their clients. The Michigan Association of Gamebird Breeders & Hunting Preserves, whose address, phone number and web site is listed above, can supply you with preserves that provide these services.

*Q. Do I need any special permit to use either captive reared game birds or exotic birds for dog training*?

This depends on whether you are using game birds or exotics and if using game birds, the number of birds you purchase:

Exotics  No permit or other paperwork is needed to purchase exotics within Michigan.

Game birds  No permit is needed to purchase 12 or fewer pheasants, bobwhite quail or Hungarian partridge for dog training from a Michigan breeder. If you purchase more than 12 at a time for dog training, the Michigan breeder will furnish you with a Game Bird Release Permit. Birds acquired in this manner, regardless of quantity, cannot be propagated or sold. If you have an interest in rearing your own birds for dog training purposes, contact the Michigan Department of Natural Resources, Wildlife Bureau, Wildlife Permit Specialist, phone 517-373-1263, for further information. Game birds acquired in Michigan must be accompanied by a shipping tag supplied by the seller. Keep the shipping tag as proof of legal ownership. 
Importation  Regardless of whether you purchase game birds or exotics, any imported birds must be accompanied by an official interstate health certificate or official interstate certificate of veterinary inspection, which will be furnished by the out-of-state breeder. All pheasant, quail, grouse and partridge imported into Michigan must be certified free of pullorum by an accredited veterinarian. You are required by law to keep the interstate shipping certificates for at least 1 year as proof of legal importation.

*Q. Can I use a quail recall pen in Michigan?*

Yes, a quail recall pen can be used for dog training purposes if the person using the pen has on their person the shipping tag or permit for the quail.

FIELD DOG TRIALS

*Q. What is a field dog trial?*

A field dog trial is a trial or meet, advertised as such and open to entry by persons whose dogs qualify, in which not less that four participants, with dogs, are permitted to dog train in competition or contest. Dogs must be awarded point, trophies, or other actual honors for their performance and demonstration of hunting skills.

Live birds may be released and taken in the process of the trial when permitted. Firearms with live ammunition may be possessed during the trial, when the field dog trail permit allows the shooting of live birds. Individuals in possession of a firearm with live ammunition must have a small game license for the current year. 

For more information on field dog trails, contact Wayne Warners, Secretary, Michigan Field Dog Trial Association, 1467 Seymour, Grand Rapids, MI 49504; Phone: (616) 453-4903.

BEAR AND BOBCAT DOG TRAINING

*Q. Can I train my dogs on bear?*

Yes, if a resident of Michigan you can train your dogs on bear during the open season for dog training. However, it is unlawful to run dogs on bear in any area of the state not open to bear hunting. In addition, it is unlawful to run dogs on bear in Zone 1 from September 10-14, or in Zone 2 during the bow and arrow only bear season.

During the training process, individuals may only train eight dogs at any one time on a bear. Captive, tethered, or caged bears may not be used in the dog training process. Everyone running their dogs during the open hunting season for bear or bobcat must be in possession of a valid hunting license for that species (bear or fur harvester, respectfully).

*Q. Are there any areas closed to bobcat dog training?*

Yes, it is unlawful to train a dog on bobcat in an area of the state that is closed to bobcat hunting.

FOX DOG TRAINING

*Q. Can I train my dog on fox?*

Yes, if a resident of Michigan you can train your dog on fox during the open season for dog training. Fox may also be chased from April 16 to July 14 in Zone 3, on state-owned lands with written authorization from the department. For permit application information, contact your nearest DNR office. An individual may also fox train by participation in a permitted field dog trial.

WATER TRAINING OF RETRIEVERS

*Q. Can I year around train my retriever in the water?*

Yes, a person may water train their retriever year around, provided that no ground nesting birds or small mammals are disturbed while in the process of water training.


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## JackAm (Aug 25, 2007)

boehr said:


> This hopefully will answer all the dog training questions.


 

One more legal question.... sorry!




boehr said:


> GENERAL DOG TRAINING
> 
> *Q. What is dog training?*
> 
> Dog training means to chase or locate game animals with a dog outside of the open season for that game.


About ten or 12 years ago I receieved a DNR memo that stated that retriever trainers could train their retrievers on state land throughout the whole year. They must not be disturbing nesting birds and must be using retriever dummies. 

That hasn't changed has it?


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Hasn't changed to the best of my knowledge.


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## peaker power (Oct 30, 2004)

JackAm said:


> One more legal question.... sorry!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is how I always read the orders, but any DNR leo I asked did not agree. Where can I get this in writing that should stand up? also where can I get a copy of that summary that Boehr posted?


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

What I put up was written by Lt. Dave Purol who was the Section Supervisor in Lansing for the Policy Section. It use to be on the DNR web site. Here is some information though that I found on the DNR web site that might be of assistance to you.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ChapterXIV_128653_7.pdf

http://midnr.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/M...DAmcF9wcm9kX2x2bDI9fmFueX4mcF9wYWdlPTE*&p_li=

You might try to contact the Policy Section, tell them what you are looking for and that it use to be on the web and they might have an 'official' copy they could send you.


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## peaker power (Oct 30, 2004)

Thanks I will check on this agian. Its been a few years since I checked or looked for anything.

David


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Boehr, thanks for posting the dog training information written by Lt. Purol.
Without meaning to knit-pick there is one point of contention regarding CCW license holders carrying a concealed handgun whether dog training or pursuing any other activity...and perhaps he wrote the summary prior to the June 3, 2004 attorney general ruling.

A ruling by the state attorney general, effective June 3, 2004 states: The Department of Natural Resources "shall not promulgate or enforce a rule that prohibits an individual who is licensed or exempt from licensure under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.435, from carrying a pistol in compliance with that act, whether concealed or otherwise, on property under control of the department."


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Rooster Cogburn said:


> Boehr, thanks for posting the dog training information written by Lt. Purol.
> Without meaning to knit-pick there is one point of contention regarding CCW license holders carrying a concealed handgun whether dog training or pursuing any other activity...and perhaps he wrote the summary prior to the June 3, 2004 attorney general ruling.
> 
> A ruling by the state attorney general, effective June 3, 2004 states: The Department of Natural Resources "shall not promulgate or enforce a rule that prohibits an individual who is licensed or exempt from licensure under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.435, from carrying a pistol in compliance with that act, whether concealed or otherwise, on property under control of the department."


You are correct. That information was written prior to the changes in concealed weapons, if memory serves it was written in the late 90's. For the most part it is still good overall information for dog training. The only reason I had it is because I previously posted it on this site and had to do a search to even find it again. Of course other searches on this site can also reveal many if not all the changes that laws concerning concealed weapons have changed things in the hunting laws. Laws are forever changing which is why I like to keep this forum (law forum) based on factual information to keep ourselves as updated as possible and not confuse law with opinion. Of course it doesn't effect us as much when a law get less restrictive as is with the concealed weapon issue but can cause a great deal of effect when a law suddenly get more restrictive. It is always good to have others provide correct information (factual) because I am not as up-to-date as I was before I retired. Of course if the handgun is used in part of the training then it does fall under the rules. Usage changes things from just carrying.


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## 22 Chuck (Feb 2, 2006)

Some people dont like to swim with dogs-but a ticket??

Anither discretionary power thing. That is about 3 on this page.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Discretion to issue a ticket or not will exist in every circumstance providing a law is violated. If no law is violated then there is no discretion because there is no valid charge. Most people only complain about discretion when it differs from their own personal opinion. Boils down to if you break the law and want to play then be prepared to pay and maybe, just maybe, you might get lucky.

Of course this is another topic and I have already given what to do on the topic so let us stay on the topic and drop the discretionary thing however if one wishes to discuss that subject further please start a new thread and I'll be there to answer any factual information you might wish to ask.


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

Talked with the lady at bruin lake and her reply was keep dogs out of public swimming areas and youll be okay, she didn't recall a ticket ever being issued there but a lot of warnings


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