# License Blues



## Christian

Not very happy. Once again denied a liscence. 2006 denied, 2007 denied, 2008 denied, 2009 did not apply, 2010 denied. I know people that get them every year. This is not very fair. I know that I can buy one over the counter but wanted one for the 1st week.


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## EdB

The key is to apply for under applied for hunt units. The first hunt is rarely the best hunting of the season


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## fathom this

I disagree the first hunt is not the best. It may be shorter in length but the turkeys are always ready to go for me.


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## kcjablin

I don't even apply for any of the drawn hunts anymore. I've personally found that the guaranteed hunt's length makes up for it's "lateness". Actually, the past two years I think the weather conditions actually made the late season the prime time to be out hunting. 

I've not had ANY problems finding workable birds and have always taken a bird, the longer time frame means I don't feel under so much pressure to make something happen, the earlier seasons all open on Mondays so if you work and can't take time off you have to wait until the last two days of your season. Talk about being under the gun!

Don't get me wrong, if you have time to take off the earlier seasons may have birds that haven't been hunted in a year and are "hot", but don't discount the late season if you really want to hunt turkeys. Plus the weather is a lot nicer in May too.


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## michgundog

Try going in on a buddy, that will increase your chances. But as mentioned already the general hunt is much better in my opinion, less schedule conflicts due to the length.


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## brushbuster

I got so fed up with the process that this year i did not apply, instead i bought a ohio liscense and permit and will be going to ohio on april 19th for the first week of their opener. 2 tom tags over the counter 25 bucks each plus 125 for annual liscence. I am going to combine this trip with a scouting excursion for deer so i can hunt in the fall with my annual liscense. Maybe somday the state of michigan will catch on but i doubt it.


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## ryan-b

brushbuster said:


> I got so fed up with the process that this year i did not apply, instead i bought a ohio liscense and permit and will be going to ohio on april 19th for the first week of their opener. 2 tom tags over the counter 25 bucks each plus 125 for annual liscence. I am going to combine this trip with a scouting excursion for deer so i can hunt in the fall with my annual liscense. Maybe somday the state of michigan will catch on but i doubt it.


 michigan does not have turkey population that ohio has.


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## ctsdaxx

Kinda funny how it works. I am not sure exactly but last year my buddy applied for 1 st week in hillsdale county and was denied. Turned around and bought an over the counter license the first day available. Explain that, the DNRE just wanted the extra 4 bucks? They couldn't find anywhere else to get it? Just a big joke to me.


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## brushbuster

ryan-b said:


> michigan does not have turkey population that ohio has.


 Like I said michigan needs to get with the progaram. There are several reasons why we dont have the populations that other states have. One is not having lands managed for wildlife just timbersales.Our state just wants our money but does not return the money back into managing wildlife just controlling the populations.


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## ryan-b

one of the biggest reasons that the southern states have more birds is they dont have the harsh winters that we have, not the way MI manages the land. you cannot manage mother nature.if turkeys cant get to the ground they cant eat. in northern lower where i live we have a pretty sizable turkey population but the chips are stacked against them, long winters, predators, lack of food.


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## GVDocHoliday

brushbuster said:


> Like I said michigan needs to get with the progaram.


No offense, but MI pretty much wrote the book on managing turkeys. You're the one that needs to get with the program. Heck, 30 years ago you could count on one hand how many turkeys there were in this state.


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## anon12162011

GVDocHoliday said:


> No offense, but MI pretty much wrote the book on managing turkeys. You're the one that needs to get with the program. Heck, 30 years ago you could count on one hand how many turkeys there were in this state.


 
Couldn't agree more....no offense, but if you have to travel outside of the state to shoot a turkey on private or public land, you need to re-examine your hunting skills and time spent in the woods. I've shot a tom every year I've hunted and only 2 have been on private land. Michigan offers one of the most quality turkey hunts of any state IMO. Yes sometimes its a headache getting turned down, but turkey hunting is not like deer hunting where you want to be in the woods that opening day to bag the buck or you may never see him the rest of the season during firearm time. Last year I took the early season and regretted it, even though I shot one on the 5th day of the hunt after hunting the 1st 4 days and not hearing a single gobble. Later on when the late spring wore off, there were turkeys cutting and strutting everywhere in May...this year I am going with the 234 and will be hunting public land in the Lake County area.


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## brushbuster

The reason i am hunting outside of the state is because of being denied tags year after year. also to scout for new areas to deer hunt.
More food equals more turkeys. Manage the land for more food such as food plots ag lands and you get more turkeys. Spend a little money on the land that we have available instead of clearcutting the entire northern pen. and you will see more game every where. Our state does not do that and we will never do that because its called managing.


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## MERGANZER

brushbuster said:


> The reason i am hunting outside of the state is because of being denied tags year after year. also to scout for new areas to deer hunt.
> More food equals more turkeys. Manage the land for more food such as food plots ag lands and you get more turkeys. Spend a little money on the land that we have available instead of clearcutting the entire northern pen. and you will see more game every where. Our state does not do that and we will never do that because its called managing.


 
Oh cmon! You are guaranteed a license in Michigan!!!! So don't say you are out of state cause you are denied every year. 234 is a great hunt. Some years its the best some years its not so good weather wise but its a month long hunt. 234 you have to sit longer, scout more, cover more ground or even set up for ambush but thats why you have a month to do it

Ganzer


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## brushbuster

If your happay with the 234 hunt then have at it. I am not. Nor am i happy with the way things are managed in this state. or lack of. If it wasnt for the turkey foundation stepping in you wouldnt have the little we do have. And since we can no longer supplement feeding in the winter we have starving birds because we dont manage our lands for wildlife it is realy that simple. I have no problems in killing birds here I always fill my tags and always let the jakes go. That is not the point and it seems that most dont get it.


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## ryan-b

i dont think your getting it. you do realize we are near the far northern range of the wild turkey right? how exactly would you like the dnr to manage for inclement weather?? if food is under 3 feet of snow it does no one any good. also the farther north you go the worse to terrian and soil gets for farming. dont know what you are complaining about go south of clare and there are tons of birds. you should come up to the big woods and try to consistantly find birds. sounds to me like you just like whining about the dnr.


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## brushbuster

Its kinda funny that my food plots hold turkey all year and that my food plots grow just fine I cant figure that one out. It did take a little effort and money but i seem to grow food in crawford county. Probably the sandiest county in northern michigan. Yes the northern part of the state does get alot of snow except for this year but years past the snow has gotten plenty deep.But with effort and management food plots can and do well up here and birds do seem to get at the food under the snow. So contrary to beleif i do get it. And if i can manage my little piece of land the state should be able to also. Again if the state land that we have were to be managed for wildlife we would all see improvements in wildlife. But i can see this is like preaching to a brick.


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## ryan-b

and the money the state is going to use to plant and maintain your food plots is going to come from where??? your throwing a damn hissy fit cause you didnt get the hunt you wanted so your going to take your ball and go home! sounds good to me. maybe you should just move to ohio then you can go whine the OHIO board about their managment plan. maybe preaching to me is like preaching to a brick, but ive got to say i have an easier time reasoning with my 3 kids when they have a tantrum then you.


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## DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI

brushbuster said:


> The reason i am hunting outside of the state is because of being denied tags year after year. also to scout for new areas to deer hunt.
> More food equals more turkeys. Manage the land for more food such as food plots ag lands and you get more turkeys. Spend a little money on the land that we have available instead of clearcutting the entire northern pen. and you will see more game every where. Our state does not do that and we will never do that because its called managing.


can you tell me where you got your forestry training, not to mention your foresters license number? i would also like to know what wildlife degrees you have to substainciate your allocations. if you don't have either i can suggest some starter courses for you
, due to the FACT you know nothing other than speculation and hyperboyle.


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## EdB

I don't understand the frustration with the 234 hunt. Turkeys are a lot more vocal in May than in April. They get henned up and shut up a lot more in the early season. If you have developed nice habitat on your land that holds turkeys, the last couple weeks of May is awesome for turkey hunting. 

I would not change anything with Michigan's permit system. One of the very best aspects of it is spreading out hunters on public lands to avoid interference and allow for quality hunting opportunties. An over the counter license free for all would ruin that.


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## UNCLE TUB

Thre are winter turkey feeding programs in place by many organizations as Linda said to support the northern turkeys. The natural most northern range for wild turkey is a cut off line from about Muskegon south. I also would not support a special season for archery. The draw of seasons makes a quality hunt by limiting permits for the first two seasons. I will also state that for years northern Michigan's acerage that was clear cut was done for timber and not for Wildlife. Jim Maturen fought hard to have the mature oaks from being raped by the loggers clear cutting as the oaks were the winter source of food for the deer and turkey. Now You see large clear cuts with standing oaks in them. As far as shooting a turkey every time out? Even the best of the world turkey hunters get skunked not because of calling or woodsmenship, but mother nature.


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## DEDGOOSE

I have hunted numerous states and a bunch of different areas in MI and have yet to find a population of birds that are _call shy_. 

A quick analysis of the situation usually reveals as to why the birds wont gobble much or move towards calling.. 

The very best turkey hunters I know from PA, AB, MO, GA, AR etc etc The guys that have no problems filling tags even on the most pressured WMAs in the country do not believe in call shy birds, only people shy. 

Realism and positioning kills pressured turkeys


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## brushbuster

Someone correct me if im wrong. With regards to the clear cutting practices that go on in northern Michigan. We only have a few mature oak and beach forests left. Why are we taking all the food sources away that will last a lifetime. And replace them with new growth aspen stands that will only be a reliable food source for 4 maybe five years tops? Once the woods have cleared the aspen seem to take right over. Whips every where and its a feast for wildlife. But these stands become void in 5 years except for grouse and woodcock. Wouldnt it be better if more selective cutting was taking place and small food plots being maintained with the revenue from the timber sales? I am not trying to step on any body's toes here but this is what i have been noticing with the woods in the northern lp for the last thirty some years.


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## DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI

brushbuster said:


> Someone correct me if im wrong. With regards to the clear cutting practices that go on in northern Michigan. We only have a few mature oak and beach forests left. Why are we taking all the food sources away that will last a lifetime. And replace them with new growth aspen stands that will only be a reliable food source for 4 maybe five years tops? Once the woods have cleared the aspen seem to take right over. Whips every where and its a feast for wildlife. But these stands become void in 5 years except for grouse and woodcock. Wouldnt it be better if more selective cutting was taking place and small food plots being maintained with the revenue from the timber sales? I am not trying to step on any body's toes here but this is what i have been noticing with the woods in the northern lp for the last thirty some years.


those stands will become a deer heaven for the first 3-5 years for feed alone then in the next 5-10 years they are cover for them along with timberdoddles and grouse 10-15 year period. these thickets are a mature buck heaven and if you learn how to hunt them your odds of whacken and stacking a 5-7 year old buck have just shot threw the roof.turkeys and poults will feed very heavy in the first few years on all the insects in those cuts. also those cutts will have red maple along with the aspen and beech trees that have been cutt in there will have major whips also. these cuts are usually on a 30 year cycle for cutting.for the most part people just hate cuttings because they hate hunting and walking in them thats why they leave them alone and mature bucks go in them period.


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## Linda G.

You must be kidding. We aren't clear cutting anywhere NEAR enough forest up here. The second growth is maturing to the point that we are losing our understory...ask any forester up here. 

Selective cutting is what most property owners opt for rather than lose all their forest, even if it's only for a few years. Selective cutting does NOTHING for wildlife. Especially when unaware landowners aren't watching, and all that selective cutting is mature oak and veneer maple. I hate selective cutting-again, ask a forester what is best for wildlife. 

If you're thinking turkeys, the problem isn't a lack of trees, or, for that matter, a lack of mast-given the proper weather, we'd have outstanding crops of beechnuts and acorns every year in most parts of the north. 

The problem is weather. 

And turkeys DO hang out in clear cut areas, it's not preferred, but they won't avoid it, either. In fact, it's prime nesting country. 

We could cut three times as much as we are right now and still not put a dent in too much forest up here. Turkeys need open areas, too, and we're losing those at a record pace.


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## DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI

Linda G. said:


> Selective cutting does NOTHING for wildlife.
> 
> number one you have lost your mind with that statement. there is not a wildlife biologist in michigan or even for that matter the world that will agree with you on that point. if you wish to argue this point, i will glady set you up with PETE SQUIBB (retired mdnr wildlife biologists and forester, now owns wildlife solutions)personally and tape record that short and brief debate..
> 
> we at llwc have been doing selective cuttings now for 9 years with PETE SQUIBB and have had nothing but better wildlife growth for it


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## brushbuster

Linda G. said:


> You must be kidding. We aren't clear cutting anywhere NEAR enough forest up here. The second growth is maturing to the point that we are losing our understory...ask any forester up here.
> 
> Selective cutting is what most property owners opt for rather than lose all their forest, even if it's only for a few years. Selective cutting does NOTHING for wildlife. Especially when unaware landowners aren't watching, and all that selective cutting is mature oak and veneer maple. I hate selective cutting-again, ask a forester what is best for wildlife.
> 
> If you're thinking turkeys, the problem isn't a lack of trees, or, for that matter, a lack of mast-given the proper weather, we'd have outstanding crops of beechnuts and acorns every year in most parts of the north.
> 
> The problem is weather.
> 
> And turkeys DO hang out in clear cut areas, it's not preferred, but they won't avoid it, either. In fact, it's prime nesting country.
> 
> We could cut three times as much as we are right now and still not put a dent in too much forest up here. Turkeys need open areas, too, and we're losing those at a record pace.


I dont know where you have been hiding but clear cutting is all over up here especially in crawford co. Just go down north down river rd, 72 west and east co. rd 612. Lovels rd. Bald hill rd and on and on you see very few oak forest left and lots of poplar stands.


I have been living and hunting up here long enough to know the value of the clear cuts and the food and cover it provides However with all the revenue that is made off of them more diversity would be beneficial with more selective cutting and implementing small food plots. Diversity is the key.


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## Linda G.

I've known Pete Squibbs for 25 years. He's always done what's politically correct...LOL Why don't you talk to someone who isn't tied to the DNR waist, like an independent biologist, forester or consultant. Selective cutting does nothing. 

Brush, you just named the one area in northern Michigan where the majority of clear cutting is done. Now, go ride around the rest of northern Michigan...LOL


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## Sib

It's possible to take two, even three turkeys in Michigan with the current regulations, but it might cut into your bow hunting for deer. The opportunities do exist in some areas, I've drawn two tags for the fall hunt. Yes it's a different type of hunt, but that's the current solution to having access to more than a single tag in one year. :idea:


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## DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI

Linda G. said:


> I've known Pete Squibbs for 25 years. He's always done what's politically correct...LOL Why don't you talk to someone who isn't tied to the DNR waist, like an independent biologist, forester or consultant. Selective cutting does nothing.
> we do talk to and use others like grossman foresters and terry manta registered forester who does the leg work on the property. linda you may wish to just writting your outdoor articles and stay completely away from forestry and habitat it provides because you flunked with flying colors. selective cutting does nothing: but, provide food for deer with all the new whips it provides/insects for the turkey poults (which just happens to be 100% of their nutrition)/opens up the forest floor for an unsurmountable amount of new growth which would never occur under the canopy of a mature forest/provide cover and bedding for fawns and fawning/nesting area for turkeys/feeding grounds for all types of hawks,owls,eagles/also allows underdeveloped mast trees (oaks,beech etc)to become mature mast trees with a full canopy which inturn means more feed for all those little critters. these are just a few things that selective cuttings do, but linda says it doesn't happen so i guess these things don't happen:lol:


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## Radar420

Linda G. said:


> Selective cutting does NOTHING for wildlife. Especially when unaware landowners aren't watching, and all that selective cutting is mature oak and veneer maple. I hate selective cutting-again, ask a forester what is best for wildlife.


I think you are confusing selection cutting (taking certain trees within certain age/size classes) to high-grading (taking the most valuable trees). Selection cutting is a sustainable way of forestry that benefits both landowner and wildlife by providing a diversity of tree species in multiple age classes to benefit a multitude of species. 



Linda G. said:


> Turkeys need open areas, too, and we're losing those at a record pace.


And yet when a thread comes up about AO in the habitat forums, you always go on and on about how great it is. You do realize that promoting AO is contributing to the loss of open areas - open areas which would benefit other things like quail, sharp-tailed grouse, pheasant, turkeys and a host of other species.


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## Tom Morang

DEDGOOSE said:


> I have hunted numerous states and a bunch of different areas in MI and have yet to find a population of birds that are _call shy_.
> 
> A quick analysis of the situation usually reveals as to why the birds wont gobble much or move towards calling..
> 
> The very best turkey hunters I know from PA, AB, MO, GA, AR etc etc The guys that have no problems filling tags even on the most pressured WMAs in the country do not believe in call shy birds, only people shy.
> 
> Realism and positioning kills pressured turkeys



What is your opinion of an early archery only turkey hunt in Michigan? Like Kansas and Nebraska has? In let's say the overpopulated areas of the slp?


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## DEDGOOSE

Tom Morang said:


> What is your opinion of an early archery only turkey hunt in Michigan? Like Kansas and Nebraska has? In let's say the overpopulated areas of the slp?


I stated my opinion of it back a page or so ago


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## Tom Morang

DEDGOOSE said:


> I stated my opinion of it back a page or so ago


I see. Well fyi Kansas also has an archery only turkey season along with Nebraska. Must be something in it for the resource eh?


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## DEDGOOSE

Tom Morang said:


> I see. Well fyi Kansas also has an archery only turkey season along with Nebraska. Must be something in it for the resource eh?


Oh please enlighten me as to how it is any more beneficial to the resource than a traditional turkey season.. Actually it goes somewhat against the norm that is recommended by top biologists across the country and that is actually pushing dates back.


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## Tom Morang

DEDGOOSE said:


> Oh please enlighten me as to how it is any more beneficial to the resource than a traditional turkey season.. Actually it goes somewhat against the norm that is recommended by top biologists across the country and that is actually pushing dates back.



I'm sure your vast knowledge of the subject will shine through grasshopper. You might want to check with the biologists and department heads in Kansas and Nebraska. I am sure they are doing something right.


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## DEDGOOSE

Tom Morang said:


> I'm sure your vast knowledge of the subject will shine through grasshopper. You might want to check with the biologists and department heads in Kansas and Nebraska. I am sure they are doing something right.


Yup, making money


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## Tom Morang

DEDGOOSE said:


> Yup, making money


And that is one thing we sorely need in Michigan. It would also provide more hunting opportunity with little impact on the resource.


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## DEDGOOSE

Tom Morang said:


> And that is one thing we sorely need in Michigan. It would also provide more hunting opportunity with little impact on the resource.


I stated earlier in this thread I am not against the second tag in MI.. If the resource can support it, or only a partial load.. Than do what we have been doing for years and years and have a lottery for the second tag, or first come first serve with out alienating anyone. Also as I stated earlier, unit zz had some 46000 tags leftover, so obviously the dnr believes the resource can withstand another 46000 hunters, so why not sell these as leftovers to hunters already sporting one license in their wallet. 

I am not quite sure whether you are trying to suggest that opening an early archery would attract money through out of state hunters or simply through license sales. 

If it is to do with out of state hunters I have a hard time believing it would be a overwhelming success. The states you mentioned have rios, easterns and merriams and most out of state trips too these states are for subspecies other than the eastern.. As for the license sales, the above mentioned system would generate just as much revenue..


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## Tom Morang

DEDGOOSE said:


> As for the license sales, the above mentioned system would generate just as much revenue..


I am not so sure. An Early Archery only turkey season would be a great draw for resident bowhunters.


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## DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI

i will concur with the line of thought that if we have 46,000 left over tags year after year the MDNRE is loosing money and lots of it. also on that note, we the michigan sportsmen and sportswomen are loosing another oppurtunity to hunt for a second bird in the spring hunt season.
this is another one of those hunter issues that will need to be taken up to the legislative branch to get something done( because the NRC WON'T) just as it was with the crossbow issue. i would be all for a drawing first hunt and tag system as is and then a second limited drawing (say 20,000 tags--20k x 15$ = 300,000$ for the mdnre)for a second turkey tag in the slp ONLY (any weapon) wether or not someone applied for the first drawing. the reason i say only 20k is the mdnre diffenetly figures in x amount of worthless hunting skills in x amount of hunters. another words people who can't hunt worth a damn:lol: and will not get a turkey even if they roost on the end of their shotgun barrels:lol:


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## DEDGOOSE

Tom Morang said:


> I am not so sure. An Early Archery only turkey season would be a great draw for resident bowhunters.


The 20 gauge fraternity is growing as well and an early 20 gauge hunt would be a great draw for small bore fanatics as well


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## DEDGOOSE

DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI said:


> i will concur with the line of thought that if we have 46,000 left over tags year after year the MDNRE is loosing money and lots of it. also on that note, we the michigan sportsmen and sportswomen are loosing another oppurtunity to hunt for a second bird in the spring hunt season.
> this is another one of those hunter issues that will need to be taken up to the legislative branch to get something done( because the NRC WON'T) just as it was with the crossbow issue. i would be all for a drawing first hunt and tag system as is and then a second limited drawing (say 20,000 tags--20k x 15$ = 300,000$ for the mdnre)for a second turkey tag in the slp ONLY (any weapon)


For once we are in complete agreement:lol:


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## Tom Morang

DEDGOOSE said:


> The 20 gauge fraternity is growing as well and an early 20 gauge hunt would be a great draw for small bore fanatics as well


Don't forget muzzies and crossbows:lol:


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## Tom Morang

I still think an early archery only hunt in the slp is do-able.


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## DEDGOOSE

Tom Morang said:


> I still think an early archery only hunt in the slp is do-able.


Did you bait deer or just people


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## Tom Morang

DEDGOOSE said:


> Did you bait deer or just people


Never baited deer.


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## PITBULL

Making money,



Tom Morang said:


> And that is one thing we sorely need in Michigan. It would also provide more hunting opportunity with little impact on the resource.


Or the DNR could just raise the price of your licence x2, Im sure that would go over well.


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## UNCLE TUB

To those of you who are avid Turkey hunters,could Michigan's hunts support more people in the woods? When Michigan sportsmen got involved thru the N.W.T.F. and M.W.T.A THEY FOUGHT HARD to have and keep a quality hunt instead of a flood of hunters running around jumbing every turkey in the woods that a hunter was calling. Most of the states you are talking about do not have as many hunters as Michigan. The states with the same geographical stats as Michigan have a one bird limit also this is due to the harsh northern climate that are supporting todays turkeys but are out of a turkeys normal range. These draw seasons keeps the pressure down somewhat and provides a Quality hunt. This is why you still have a draw to hunt turkeys.


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## Tom Morang

UNCLE TUB said:


> To those of you who are avid Turkey hunters,could Michigan's hunts support more people in the woods? When Michigan sportsmen got involved thru the N.W.T.F. and M.W.T.A THEY FOUGHT HARD to have and keep a quality hunt instead of a flood of hunters running around jumbing every turkey in the woods that a hunter was calling. Most of the states you are talking about do not have as many hunters as Michigan. The states with the same geographical stats as Michigan have a one bird limit also this is due to the harsh northern climate that are supporting todays turkeys but are out of a turkeys normal range. These draw seasons keeps the pressure down somewhat and provides a Quality hunt. This is why you still have a draw to hunt turkeys.



Kind of reminds me of the bow season we have now.


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## UNCLE TUB

Tom Morang said:


> I am not so sure. An Early Archery only turkey season would be a great draw for resident bowhunters.


 Why not a late bow only season?


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## Tom Morang

UNCLE TUB said:


> Why not a late bow only season?


Not practical.

However, the early archery only hunts in Kansas and Nebraska are, and they don't have a negative impact on the resource. Kansas tags are also available over the counter for the early bow hunt only.

http://kdwp.state.ks.us/news/Hunting/Applications-and-Fees/Turkey


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## UNCLE TUB

Tom Morang said:


> Not practical.
> 
> However, the early archery only hunts in Kansas and Nebraska are, and they don't have a negative impact on the resource. Kansas tags are also available over the counter for the early bow hunt only.
> 
> http://kdwp.state.ks.us/news/Hunting/Applications-and-Fees/Turkey


 Kansas and Nebraska are out of Michigans geographic lines therefore they could not be compared. As far as practical why is a later season still not practical? As Linda said once that openng the season any earlier and you might run into some weather related issues. I have participated in a Turkey Wildlife Organization for over twenty seven years and many times I have tried to get the season open a few weeks earlier in the lower penninsula, but Al Stewart has rejected my proposal everytime on biological reasons of different sorts. For this reason I believe the archery only season would not pass either.


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## Tom Morang

UNCLE TUB said:


> Kansas and Nebraska are out of Michigans geographic lines therefore they could not be compared. As far as practical why is a later season still not practical? As Linda said once that openng the season any earlier and you might run into some weather related issues. I have belonged to and participated in a Turkey Wildlife Organization for over twenty seven years and have many times tried to have the season open a few weeks earlier in the lower penninsula, but Al Stewart has rejected my proposal everytime on biological reasons of different sorts. For this reason I believe the archery only season would not pass either.


We will have to find out.


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## UNCLE TUB

Tom Morang said:


> We will have to find out.


 Good Luck , but it won't fly or have enough support.


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## Tom Morang

UNCLE TUB said:


> Good Luck , but it won't fly or have enough support.


Maybe, maybe not. But thanks for wishing me good luck.


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## wdf73

Ieatantlers said:


> We can't even properly fund our schools right now. I am all for hunting/fishing and habitat improvement- but not when we are firing teachers left and right and packing classrooms because we are in such a financial crisis. At this point, any improvement should be made by private organizations- and like Linda G. said- they are doing exactly that. We can hardly afford having C.O.'s around, turkey habitat improvement is way down on the list of what to spend money on- and rightfully so.


Well, it looks like everybody else is sharing their opinions, so I will take the liberty to do the same.
First of all, I can not understand the statement that 'turkey habitat improvement is way down the list of what to spend money on- and rightfully so.' I own a retail sales business, and if people are coming in my doors and not spending money because I do not stock what they need, the _very last_ thing I should do is to stock even less because I do not have enough money! The entire future of Michigan resources, and by extension the profit margin of the DNR is directly dependent on having enough game to hunt and fish to fish for.
While I give the MDNR high grades for their management of our resources in the past, (witness the deer, turkeys, salmon, etc..............) I am a little reluctant to sing their praises of the same 'management' today. I do not claim to have any degrees or inside information so I may be mistaken, but it appears to me that many of the recent actions of those in charge have seemed to be aimed at depleting what resources we have left as fast as possible.
Just a couple of examples: the deer hunters in our area saw fewer deer last year than they have in many years; the DNR solution?-Issue 59 block permits to one farmer alone!:tdo12: Salmon numbers are down on the Great Lakes- hey, let's raise the limit from 3 to 5!
I can't speak for the turkey situation; there seem to be a reasonable amount in my area, and I usually prefer unit ZZ. It does sound like I must be a pretty pathetic turkey hunter though; all you folks are getting a tom every year. I can't even do that in my dreams!!
I do like the idea of an extra tag usable only with a bow; I doubt that would deplete the population too far and would be a money maker for the state.


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