# straw that broke the camel's back??



## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

We saw a wolf north of the Reedsburg dam several years ago and we also saw one between Kalaska and Mancelonia off 1311a few years ago. I have heard of others being seen in this area also


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## KalamazooKid (Jun 20, 2005)

Scout 2 said:


> We saw a wolf north of the Reedsburg dam several years ago and we also saw one between Kalaska and Mancelonia off 1311a few years ago. I have heard of others being seen in this area also


I heard from someone I trust (when he's sober) that the wolves will run in packs with cougars.


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## pikenetter (Mar 28, 2009)

welldriller said:


> Yes.


 co worker had one on a trail cam a few years back near luddington. contacted the dnr to verify it. they said it was a coyote, and he asked if it was okay to shoot it then, they replied i wouldnt do that.


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

KalamazooKid said:


> I heard from someone I trust (when he's sober) that the wolves will run in packs with cougars.


Nice thing about that is the cougars slow them down enough so the bear hounds can catch up with them. If we could just get the wolves to tree like the lions. lol


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## FallDreamer (Dec 15, 2010)

slabstar said:


> There's just not enough land for hound hunting/training in the lower. It's only a matter of time before it's a child or elderly who gets mauled on their own land. Then will the CO shrug his shoulders and say.....Oh, they were legally training. ....there's nothing I can do..........


What is the crime? Is the CO supposed to charge the dog with murder? Trespassing? Dogs don't read. What is the crime? It is civil this is Belen the property owner and bear dog owner.


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## FallDreamer (Dec 15, 2010)

FallDreamer said:


> What is the crime? Is the CO supposed to charge the dog with murder? Trespassing? Dogs don't read. What is the crime? It is civil this is Belen the property owner and bear dog owner.


Between


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## Honkkilla59 (Dec 12, 2013)

FallDreamer said:


> What is the crime? Is the CO supposed to charge the dog with murder? Trespassing? Dogs don't read. What is the crime? It is civil this is Belen the property owner and bear dog owner.


Yeah you can be not criminally guilty but civilly guilty.
If the hound hunter had any morals he would offer to compensate the owner without the need of legal action. 
I haven't heard any response from the hound owner.


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## k9wernet (Oct 15, 2007)

Lang demonstrates the same ignorant, entitled attitude that brings about other misguided breed-specific legislation throughout the US. I am sympathetic toward Lang and his dog. I really am. However, his anger should be directed at those specific dogs and their owners, not hounds in general. I'm stating this as a bird-dog guy, who has really no interest in hunting over hounds, and no proverbial "dog" in this fight (that pun was preconceived and very much intended).

You know what kind of dogs are responsible for the majority of attacks in the US each year? Small breeds, just like Lang's chihuahua. I've been growled at, snapped at, and bitten by countless small breed dogs in my adult life. My 3 year old son was bitten by a small breed earlier this summer, leaving a scar on his abdomen he'll probably wear for the rest of his life. As a result, he's TERRIFIED of strange dogs (he's fine with our three), but this is a big problem as we encounter a lot of strange dogs in our day to day life -- hunting dog events, trips to the park where I work, walking down the road in our suburban neighborhood, etc.

Now I could react to that dog bite in a number of ways. I could sue that dog's owner. Not likely, since he's my cousin. I could do the responsible thing and teach my son how to behave when he's around strange animals. Probably a good life lesson... Or I could pitch a hissy fit, call in the local tv news, and lobby for a breed-ban on chihuahuas, as they're an ankle biting, abdomen biting, uncontrollable, holy terror of a breed.

To me that last option seems a bit overboard, but it seems to be the direction we're moving in as a society, and I personally have no use for small dogs, so what do I care if the rest of you can't own one.

Lang, what do you suggest?


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## Honkkilla59 (Dec 12, 2013)

k9wernet said:


> Lang demonstrates the same ignorant, entitled attitude that brings about other misguided breed-specific legislation throughout the US. I am sympathetic toward Lang and his dog. I really am. However, his anger should be directed at those specific dogs and their owners, not hounds in general. I'm stating this as a bird-dog guy, who has really no interest in hunting over hounds, and no proverbial "dog" in this fight (that pun was preconceived and very much intended).
> 
> You know what kind of dogs are responsible for the majority of attacks in the US each year? Small breeds, just like Lang's chihuahua. I've been growled at, snapped at, and bitten by countless small breed dogs in my adult life. My 3 year old son was bitten by a small breed earlier this summer, leaving a scar on his abdomen he'll probably wear for the rest of his life. As a result, he's TERRIFIED of strange dogs (he's fine with our three), but this is a big problem as we encounter a lot of strange dogs in our day to day life -- hunting dog events, trips to the park where I work, walking down the road in our suburban neighborhood, etc.
> 
> ...


So you would have no problem with someone's dog coming on your property and killing your pet,livestock or biting a family member. Let's compare apples to apples if you are home you have the reasonable expectation that you and your property won't be damaged, vandalized or destoyed.

I still have seen or heard any response from the hounds owner and if he reply is that he broke no laws and doesn't feel a sense of obligation to Mr. Lang then he just makes all hound hunters look like Bubba Buffoon. 
I have owned beagles ,bird dogs and German Shepard and if any of my dogs were to go on another. Persons property and do damage I would try to personally rectify the problem. In today's society it is common to try to place the blame elsewhere. 
You blame Mr. Lang for the direction he has taken but again his dog was on his property . You believe that this is a direction we are moving as a society your right people who don't want to responsible for thier actions.
What I would suggest is that if you can't be a responsible person then don't own pets.


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## k9wernet (Oct 15, 2007)

Honkkilla59 said:


> So you would have no problem with someone's dog coming on your property and killing your pet,livestock or biting a family member.


I don't know how you got from what I said to this... Reading through the rest of your post, I think we're more or less saying the same thing.

I ABSOLUTELY have a problem with someone's dog threatening me or my property. But again, it's about PERSONAL responsibility.

If someone's not taking responsibility for his dog, you deal with that person, and that dog.

Lang ABSOLUTELY has every right to be upset about his chihuahua. But the bottom line is that THIS hound owner needs to be held responsible for his dogs' actions -- THAT hound owner, not EVERY hound owner. Since Lang can't/won't locate the owner, he's going to wage a war on all hound owners. That kind of response is just lazy, ignorant, misguided, and dangerous IMO.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

I don't have a problem with hounds....but I think it's getting to the point where some kind of reasonable law needs to be enacted and followed, before this type of thing bring hound/dog hunting to an end.

As far as a dog threatening a person on my property....I would kill it. Period.


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## Jager Pro (Nov 8, 2013)

K9wernet, stop using logic and reason that stuff isn't allowed on the Internet.


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## Honkkilla59 (Dec 12, 2013)

k9wernet said:


> I don't know how you got from what I said to this... Reading through the rest of your post, I think we're more or
> 
> 
> 
> Lang ABSOLUTELY has every right to be upset about his chihuahua. But the bottom line is that THIS hound owner needs to be held responsible for his dogs' actions -- THAT hound owner, not EVERY hound owner. Since Lang can't/won't locate the owner, he's going to wage a war on all hound owners. That kind of response is just lazy, ignorant, misguided, and dangerous IMO.


L


k9wernet said:


> I don't know how you got from what I said to this... Reading through the rest of your post, I think we're more or less saying the same thing.
> 
> I ABSOLUTELY have a problem with someone's dog threatening me or my property. But again, it's about PERSONAL responsibility.
> 
> ...


I think for the most part we are on the same page and as stated one moron makes the rest look bad.
I would think someone in the hound hunting community knows whos dogs were being run in the area and should offer that imformation to the police.
If not and I were in Mr. Langst shoes I would claim any hound I see on my property was attacking me or my pets and give them some shotgun justice. 
My point is that why should he have to jump through hoops when he was the victim in this situation.


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## white shark (Aug 2, 2009)

There is no room for hound hunters in the lower. Every encounter I've had with them has been negative. I would vote to ban hounds in a minute. Just one guys opinion


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

You never crossed trails with any of my hound hunting areas and said anything to me, unless you were chased a half mile by me on foot years ago and warned to not set foot on my land again when caught..again.
Otherwise my hunting with hounds/dogs over four decades has been just fine down in lower Mi. with no other negatives. 
Both on public and private.
Though one male I run growled at a stranger approaching while I dressed game, I understand why he growled.
If that was you, you survived apparently.
I've encountered others dogs hunting and no problem. Most are busy hunting. Fine by me.
Other hunters when I'm running them are expected, but seldom encountered.
NONE have voiced complaint over a long span of time and now someone else's problem becomes mine.
Maybe each person ticketed in an auto should be banned from them for life.
My selfish life would surely be better as a result..more room for meeeee.


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## Beartreed (May 8, 2008)

white shark said:


> There is no room for hound hunters in the lower. Every encounter I've had with them has been negative. I would vote to ban hounds in a minute. Just one guys opinion


Really? I've kept quiet on this til now but enough. Do you not see how short-sighted you are with your comments? I haven't had any conflicts in years running in the lower. So some of you think that because of an unfortunate incident like this we should shut it down huh? I guess then that the next time someone is killed with a gun we better be banning using them anymore.Sheeesh


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## white shark (Aug 2, 2009)

I have been hunting in the red oak area for 28 years and every single encounter with hound hunters was a bad one. In my case it was more the hunters that were the problem. So yes, if everytime I encountered a gun I was being shot at I would say ban them.


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

swampbuck said:


> I don't have a problem with hounds....but I think it's getting to the point where some kind of reasonable law needs to be enacted and followed, before this type of thing bring hound/dog hunting to an end.
> 
> As far as a dog threatening a person on my property....I would kill it. Period.


 No where was it mentioned that a person was threatened.



Honkkilla59 said:


> L I think for the most part we are on the same page and as stated one moron makes the rest look bad.
> I would think someone in the hound hunting community knows whos dogs were being run in the area and should offer that imformation to the police.
> If not and I were in Mr. Langst shoes I would claim any hound I see on my property was attacking me or my pets and give them some shotgun justice.
> My point is that why should he have to jump through hoops when he was the victim in this situation.


 That's what you would do?



white shark said:


> There is no room for hound hunters in the lower. Every encounter I've had with them has been negative. I would vote to ban hounds in a minute. Just one guys opinion


 Is it possible that the problem is you?

This thread was started on the wrong foot and it has gone down hill from there. Considering the miles they cover, hounds and hound hunters do surprisingly little damage. Trail hounds tend to be scent focused and friendly in general. You should not feel threatened if one or a few appear. This attack on the little dog sounds more like the work of coyotes to me. But if it was a dog well they fight sometimes it happens. 

As a final thought. When they start taking hunting rights away at what point will they stop?


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

I support hound hunting even though I have no interest in ever doing that. But with that said I have had nothing but bad experiences with hound people after bear. Hound rigs speeding, hound rigs blocking county roads, and a general sh** attitude from everyone I have ever spoken to. Police your ranks hound folks, I'm not the only one who lives in an area you run that is tired of the crap.


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## Honkkilla59 (Dec 12, 2013)

[QUOTE="Nostromo, post: 5629549, member: 

As a final thought. When they start taking hunting rights away at what point will they stop?[/QUOTE]

As a final thought quit trespassing on private property and you don't have to worry about your hunting rights!


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## gawelg (Mar 19, 2008)

Every encounter I have had with deer hunters when squirrel hunting my cur dog or **** hunting on STATE LAND has been negative in the last 25 years. I am told to stay out of the woods with my dogs as they are running all of "their" deer off. Bow hunters are about the worst. Hound hunters are said to be confrontational, it is hard to be nice when someone confronts you and gets in your face and sometimes just happens to be carrying their shotgun by chance, and not on their property, but on a public road. Maybe I have just been unlucky and only seen the couple of deer hunters with an attitude. 

Gary


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## dickey3476 (Dec 19, 2005)

In the sick world we live in today we have people shooting up schools, movie theaters, police and list keeps going on and on. So why don't some of you people police your own and stop these tragedies from happening? Because it's impossible. But that's what you want from a hound hunter is to police someone that hunts on the opposite side of the state from what they do. Why don't we all get together and ban everything that some idiot does that's illegal or not ethical. It would be a pretty boring world because there wouldn't be anything left to do. But you guys get on here and tell the michigan sportsman how the hound hunter ruined your life. Maybe someday you can get it taken away so that the many people that do it right won't be able to enjoy the one thing they live for because of a few people doing it wrong. That probably won't matter to much to us because we are labeled as trespassing law breakers anyway so we will probably keep doing what we love to do. Thanks to the michigan sportsman forum for keeping these anti hound hunter messages going on yearly basis.


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## Honkkilla59 (Dec 12, 2013)

Have you ever stopped to think the reason you see people bitching about hound hunters every year is because it's the same sheet again from these individuals ever year?
I have friends who own large blocks of land in both Isabella and Alcoa county with no state or federal land nearby.
Ever year the same douchebags run thier hounds for coyotes and cats 
there even though they should not be starting thier dogs on property the have no permission to hunt.
These particular a holes then get pissed when they were told that they would have to walk in to retrieve thier dogs and not be allowed to drive thier vehicles down the drive.
This all comes after 3 years of dealing with these Bubbas.
By the way my friend was approached in advance by a guy who runs hounds and was given permission because he does the right thing and seeks permission from the owners in the area.


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## dickey3476 (Dec 19, 2005)

So you have one guy doing it the right way and one the wrong but you are gonna condemn us all because of the bad. With today's technology it should be easy to get a trespassing violation on the group that continues to go where they are not wanted. Any serious hound guy runs a GPS tracking unit anymore and it would tell law enforcement every inch of ground the dog has been on. And I do realize that few bad people do give us a bad reputation but thats life in general. You can look at news stories Dailey and find someone who is making the human race look like a bunch of idiots but since hound hunting is not done by the majority its gonna get bashed until its no longer legal and then you can have the woods to yourself which is probably the real agenda


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## Honkkilla59 (Dec 12, 2013)

dickey3476 said:


> So you have one guy doing it the right way and one the wrong but you are gonna condemn us all because of the bad. With today's technology it should be easy to get a trespassing violation on the group that continues to go where they are not wanted. Any serious hound guy runs a GPS tracking unit anymore and it would tell law enforcement every inch of ground the dog has been on. And I do realize that few bad people do give us a bad reputation but thats life in general. You can look at news stories Dailey and find someone who is making the human race look like a bunch of idiots but since hound hunting is not done by the majority its gonna get bashed until its no longer legal and then you can have the woods to yourself which is probably the real agenda


I have stated 1 guy doing it right 3-4 other groups doing it wrong.
Let me ask you how many acres of property do you personally own?
So you would have no issue with others being given the right to legally tresspass on your property most of the year assuming you own property?
I know who one of the hound hunters and he owns 160 acres of property and it's sure a different story when one of his neighbors who owns 20 acres squats the property line and God forbid should they ask to come and retrieve a deer that has run onto his property. Then property rights and trespassing mean something to him otherwise he can run his dogs all over everything else's property.


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## thongg (Jul 10, 2007)

Need to look at Maine's vote from last year, Maine lets you hunt bears with hounds, bait or trap them they voted to allow all methods to continue but if hounds or trapping would have been options not tied to bait both would have been eliminated


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## NEMichsportsman (Jul 3, 2001)

This has not a lot to do with Bear Hunting. It can be discussed via pm or start a new thread in Sound Off...


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