# UP wolf ??



## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

I've hunted in the UP a bunch, but have not hunted there with my pup yet (first bird dog, he's a year old). I have never personally had an encounter with a wolf in the UP. I know the odds are very slim of having an encounter with wolf while upland hunting, but I've heard enough stories about wolves and other dogs in the UP, as well as wolves and upland dogs in other states, to stick to the LP so long as the hunting there is comparable. 

I'm not saying I'll never run my dog there, but I'm currently under the mentality that I will be avoiding it. I acknowledge my mentality is somewhat unreasonable--i.e., the fact that my dog is just as likely (or unlikely, if you will) to get blasto in the northern LP, get struck by lightening, get impaled by a sharp stick, etc--but that's just how I feel at the moment.


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

http://m.petoskeynews.com/featured-...43c-5bd1-11e5-8124-839caddd0183.html?mode=jqm


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

Found the link in Whitetail section.


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

Mr. Botek said:


> http://m.petoskeynews.com/featured-...43c-5bd1-11e5-8124-839caddd0183.html?mode=jqm


I remember hearing about a wolf confirmation in the NLP within the past few years, but I recall also hearing they found it dead. This must be another one? I see now the article is pretty new. Interesting.


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## Legallyblonde (Dec 6, 2010)

I thought that there were two confirmed wolf packs in NLP.


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

Legallyblonde said:


> I thought that there were two confirmed wolf packs in NLP.


Funny you mention that, I just got off the phone with my taxidermist, who bear hunts up there and follows that closely, and he's spoken to several guys who have seen them first hand in the NLP (guys who know the difference between a wolf and a yote), and he said there are certainly packs of them up there without a doubt.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

dallasdog said:


> Ive read a lot of Robert Holmes wolf crap on here I think 99% of what he writes is a negative Michigan-sportsman encounter... Whatever the hell that is


Your opinion!!! I live in the UP I hunt and/or fish 200+ days a year what are the odds of a person who travels through wolf country 200+ days a year of seeing a wolf? I would say about the same as someone who has a pond in their backyard seeing a duck. At least every person that I know who lives in the UP has seen at least one wolf. My wife has seen several of them and she does not hunt or fish.If you want to see them you have to drive off pavement, something you probably aren't used to doing.


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## Biggbear (Aug 14, 2001)

dallasdog said:


> Ive read a lot of Robert Holmes wolf crap on here I think 99% of what he writes is a negative Michigan-sportsman encounter... Whatever the hell that is


There are a handful of people on this site that post over and over how they see wolves constantly while in the woods, they have wolves circling them as they come out of the woods (on a frequent basis no less), that the wolves have single handedly decimated the deer population, etc. It's these same people who will swear that the money being lost in the UP is the fault of the DNR for allowing wolves to come back into Michigan at all. The fact is that when you are willing to tell anyone who will listen how terrible the wolf situation is in the UP, and post it all over the internet, you shouldnt be surprised when the money stays south of the bridge.

I often wonder if they guys on here that spew that rehtoric over and over again, are really just trying to keep people south of the bridge so they can have the woods and water to themselves.

I have family and friends in the UP, I hunt and fish in the UP, and I have seen a wolf on only two occasions, and one was from the car. The one time I was on foot was not scary, I didnt have a gun, the wolf wasnt threatening in any way. A friend and I came around a corner,and it stepped out into the two track. We saw each other at about the same time, it was only 30 yards or so away. We froze from surprise, and the wolf took off. I only know of a couple other people who have even seen wolves in the UP, and they're in the woods nearly every day for their profession.

Are they there, yep. Could you run into one, yep. Are the odds of that high, nope. Wolves are pretty much home bodies from what I understand. I would contact the DNR to find out if there are any resident packs in the area you want to hunt, and if not I wouldnt hesitate to hunt there. If there is a resident pack in the area you want to hunt, move on to another area if you're running a dog. They don't blanket the entire UP, despite what some on this site would like you to believe.

If you dont have a dog, there isnt any place in the UP that I would avoid, not one single place. There are alot more bears in the woods than wolves, and no one seems to bother trying to avoid them. Not sure why the prospect of seeing a wolf is so scary to some people.


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

Biggbear said:


> There are a handful of people on this site that post over and over how they see wolves constantly while in the woods, they have wolves circling them as they come out of the woods (on a frequent basis no less), that the wolves have single handedly decimated the deer population, etc. It's these same people who will swear that the money being lost in the UP is the fault of the DNR for allowing wolves to come back into Michigan at all. The fact is that when you are willing to tell anyone who will listen how terrible the wolf situation is in the UP, and post it all over the internet, you shouldnt be surprised when the money stays south of the bridge.
> 
> I often wonder if they guys on here that spew that rehtoric over and over again, are really just trying to keep people south of the bridge so they can have the woods and water to themselves.
> 
> ...


If you look at the yearly stats on attacks on people, and any resulting deaths, from predators in the lower 48 bears win hands down *every single year. *That applies to black and brown bears. If you look at yearly statistics on what animal kills the most cows, coyotes win hands down.

Wolves are a problem if you're a livestock owner or hunting/hiking with a dog and there is no doubt that they impact ungulate numbers however.


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## Biggbear (Aug 14, 2001)

WestCoastHunter said:


> If you look at the yearly stats on attacks on people, and any resulting deaths, from predators in the lower 48 bears win hands down *every single year. *That applies to black and brown bears. If you look at yearly statistics on what animal kills the most cows, coyotes win hands down.
> 
> Wolves are a problem if you're a livestock owner or hunting/hiking with a dog and there is no doubt that they impact ungulate numbers however.


 
I agree with you WCH, they are an issue for some user groups, and they definitely need to be managed. I'm just saying they aren't the demons they are made out to be by some. As for their impact on ungulate numbers, again I agree, they do impact the herd. But again, they aren't the single source for the herd decline in the UP over the last few years. I have no statistics to back my position up, but I would bet winterkill over the last couple seasons reduced the herd far and away more than the wolves have.


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## dauber (Jan 11, 2010)

There is a long term predator - prey study going on in the UP. Results so far have been interesting. 

http://fwrc.msstate.edu/carnivore/predatorprey/

Check the results tabs, tons of reading there.


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

Biggbear said:


> There are alot more bears in the woods than wolves, and no one seems to bother trying to avoid them. Not sure why the prospect of seeing a wolf is so scary to some people.


People aren't weary of bears because bears are more weary of humans--because humans hunt them. You'll notice that most black bear attacks happen in parks where people can't hunt them. 

We want wolves around, they belong in our woods, and, regardless of how some people don't appreciate the presence of competing predators, they are key components of our ecosystem--but, when they're not hunted and not managed, they run unchecked and maintain an unhealthy comfort level around humans.


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

Lamarsh said:


> People aren't weary of bears because bears are more weary of humans--because humans hunt them. You'll notice that most black bear attacks happen in parks where people can't hunt them.


Tell that to this guy...

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Bear-attacks-bites-bow-hunter-near-Longview-274164221.html

or this guy

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs...se-hunter-kills-attacking-black-bear-birdshot

These are not isolated cases. 

Point being, there is a lot more to fear from black bears than wolves, at least at the moment. For dogs they are more of a worry, but from an overall danger perspective I'd worry a lot more about a bear attack.


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

Biggbear said:


> I agree with you WCH, they are an issue for some user groups, and they definitely need to be managed. I'm just saying they aren't the demons they are made out to be by some. As for their impact on ungulate numbers, again I agree, they do impact the herd. But again, they aren't the single source for the herd decline in the UP over the last few years. I have no statistics to back my position up, but I would bet winterkill over the last couple seasons reduced the herd far and away more than the wolves have.


This is kind of a propaganda piece, but some of the observations they are making here are things I have heard deer and elk hunters out here talk about since wolves came on the scene...






I talked with a guy I work with yesterday, he just got back from hunting elk in Montana. He tells me one of the affects of wolves is they have pushed elk into areas that are hard for wolves, and people, to get into. They are also much more hyper alert. You make the wrong noise, let the wind hit you the wrong way, and they will "bark" letting the whole herd know you are there and you won't be able to call them in. That has always been true, but it is much more so now. In areas wolves roam hunting is harder, and not simply because they kill everything. The animals are on the run at the slightest sign of trouble.


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

WestCoastHunter said:


> Tell that to this guy...
> 
> http://www.katu.com/news/local/Bear-attacks-bites-bow-hunter-near-Longview-274164221.html
> 
> ...


With regard to the bear attacks, I wasn't saying that to mean bear attacks happen exclusively in those areas, but it is rare that a black bear will attack a human outside of areas where people are feeding bears or where bears cannot be hunted (i.e., where bears have a much lowered fear of humans). But if you compare bear attacks to wolf attacks, you might be right that there is more to fear with bears. 

I haven't watched that video yet, but what you said about pushing the elk reminded me of this theory I heard about regarding the wolves in yellowstone and that the proliferation of wolves actually improved the rivers and habitat through a domino effect. It went something like this: the wolves started to push the elk and buffalo deeper into cover, and they were able to graze in the open fields near rivers much less, but instead stayed in dark timber much more often, which allowed the cover and habitat near rivers to improve, which in turn improved the rivers as well as a ton of biodiversity (small animals and such living in what used to be huge grazing pastures for elk and buffalo). I think it was just a theory, but it is very interesting to think about.


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## dallasdog (Nov 17, 2009)

Robert Holmes said:


> Your opinion!!! I live in the UP I hunt and/or fish 200+ days a year what are the odds of a person who travels through wolf country 200+ days a year of seeing a wolf? I would say about the same as someone who has a pond in their backyard seeing a duck. At least every person that I know who lives in the UP has seen at least one wolf. My wife has seen several of them and she does not hunt or fish.If you want to see them you have to drive off pavement, something you probably aren't used to doing.[/QUOTE
> Save some of this for around the campfire with your buddies its good stuff.


Save some of this for around the camp fire with your buddies .... its good stuff


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## dallasdog (Nov 17, 2009)

Biggbear said:


> There are a handful of people on this site that post over and over how they see wolves constantly while in the woods, they have wolves circling them as they come out of the woods (on a frequent basis no less), that the wolves have single handedly decimated the deer population, etc. It's these same people who will swear that the money being lost in the UP is the fault of the DNR for allowing wolves to come back into Michigan at all. The fact is that when you are willing to tell anyone who will listen how terrible the wolf situation is in the UP, and post it all over the internet, you shouldnt be surprised when the money stays south of the bridge.
> 
> I often wonder if they guys on here that spew that rehtoric over and over again, are really just trying to keep people south of the bridge so they can have the woods and water to themselves.
> 
> ...


Well said


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Lamarsh said:


> I haven't watched that video yet, but what you said about pushing the elk reminded me of this theory I heard about regarding the wolves in yellowstone and that the proliferation of wolves actually improved the rivers and habitat through a domino effect. It went something like this: the wolves started to push the elk and buffalo deeper into cover, and they were able to graze in the open fields near rivers much less, but instead stayed in dark timber much more often, which allowed the cover and habitat near rivers to improve, which in turn improved the rivers as well as a ton of biodiversity (small animals and such living in what used to be huge grazing pastures for elk and buffalo).


The theory of the river changing in IMO is crap. The video was a pro wolf video and showed some time lapse changes of rivers once the wolves were introduced. What it couldn't show is that the same changes most likely happened with or without wolves. Newsflash.....rivers always change. Habitat along rivers continually change. In a documentary you can skew evidence to make a case for whatever you are trying to prove.


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## stagliano (Nov 10, 2006)

Biggbear said:


> There are a handful of people on this site that post over and over how they see wolves constantly while in the woods, they have wolves circling them as they come out of the woods (on a frequent basis no less), that the wolves have single handedly decimated the deer population, etc. It's these same people who will swear that the money being lost in the UP is the fault of the DNR for allowing wolves to come back into Michigan at all. The fact is that when you are willing to tell anyone who will listen how terrible the wolf situation is in the UP, and post it all over the internet, you shouldnt be surprised when the money stays south of the bridge.
> 
> I often wonder if they guys on here that spew that rehtoric over and over again, are really just trying to keep people south of the bridge so they can have the woods and water to themselves.
> 
> ...


This is an honest and objective answer for you. There are wolves, wolves could potentially harm your dogs but they are not high density. Please come hunt the UP and have a safe and enjoyable hunt. I have been hunting here with dogs for many years and have only had one negative encounter. When I am hunting and see fresh wolf sign, I go somewhere else. Lots of cover and birds so there is no need to push it. 

Blowhards like Robert Holmes are just that, blowhards. Everything is awful from his perspective. I would imagine that negativity gets exhausting. Come hunt the UP, it's a great place that we are all fortunate to have in our state.


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## Dave Medema (Jan 18, 2005)

I spend several weeks each fall in the Yoop. We found this guy a few years ago, called the DNR with the location, and then went hunting across the street for an hour until the DNR arrived. I didn't give any thought to additional wolves in the area. They are out there...so am I.


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## Berserker (Aug 10, 2014)

I don't know about that. You are seeing lots of deer in southern towns. Some mabe cause of building, but there are still plenty of woods left. Nothing can touch them in town, may simply be the reason.

Last few winters have been very cold and lots of snow, more then you can realize downstate.


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## Berserker (Aug 10, 2014)

I found this graph interesting. From this link
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/MI_Deer_Harvest_Survey_2013_459193_7.pdf

I just scrolled through looking at the pictures.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

This is what I want to see again but higher numbers. 



Wolf Hunt Status - Closed

The status of the wolf hunt as of 12am EST on 01/01/2014 is as follows:

WMU-A
Status: Closed
Total Harvest: 5

WMU-B
Status: Closed
Total Harvest: 14

WMU-C
Status: Closed
Total Harvest: 4

For more information on wolves in Michigan, please visit www.michigan.gov/wolves.

If you received this from a friend and would like to get emails on DNR topics that interest you, please sign up.
For DNR-related questions, contact us. 
For suggestions on how the DNR can improve the emails you receive, please email [email protected].


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

dallasdog said:


> So what are you doing to help out?


I am throwing out large alfalfa bales, corn, potatoes, apples, and sugar beets. This way the predators do not have to work as hard to find them. I can also do a predator/ prey study.


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## Berserker (Aug 10, 2014)

We need global warming to come back. Obviouly wolves are eating deer, but speaking from my bowels, I think the hard winters have been more of a problem.

You are only going to have as many wolves, as there is food for. Granted they may be eating our food. 

Having lived in Dickinson and Menominee counties, I welcome the wolves. Deer are just big rodents. Not so bad up in the snowbelt though. Someone needs to tell the wolve to move south.


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