# 110V off a 220 line?



## Largemouth (Feb 23, 2011)

I need to have a 220 line run to my mud room for a dryer. Can I branch off that for 110v lights and outlets, or do I have to run a separate line for the 110?


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## Michihunter (Jan 8, 2003)

I believe all 220 appliances need a dedicated circuit.


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## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

I would think that the above is correct. Even if it's not and it was allowable, I don't think I'd do it that way. I'd run the 220 dedicated and a separate 110 for the outlets and lights.

John


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## Largemouth (Feb 23, 2011)

If the dedicated 220 is running through conduit on the outside of the house, does the 110 line have to run through it's own conduit, or can they be in the same run?


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## Michihunter (Jan 8, 2003)

Largemouth said:


> If the dedicated 220 is running through conduit on the outside of the house, does the 110 line have to run through it's own conduit, or can they be in the same run?


You can use the same conduit for multiple circuits.


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## ih772 (Jan 28, 2003)

Largemouth said:


> If the dedicated 220 is running through conduit on the outside of the house, does the 110 line have to run through it's own conduit, or can they be in the same run?


Before you go running wire through conduit, you really need to check the code book for the type of wire/cable that is allowed and the size the conduit needs to be. There are too many armchair and unlicensed wanna be electricians giving erroneous and bad advice in this thread.


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

ih772 said:


> Before you go running wire through conduit, you really need to check the code book for the type of wire/cable that is allowed and the size the conduit needs to be.


Absolutely correct. I would add that both of those facts are dependent on the ampacity of the appliance being fed.


_OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors_


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## PLUMMER47 (Dec 9, 2006)

ih772 said:


> Before you go running wire through conduit, you really need to check the code book for the type of wire/cable that is allowed and the size the conduit needs to be. There are too many armchair and unlicensed wanna be electricians giving erroneous and bad advice in this thread.


Copy.....10-4. 

But No to question 1 ( way wrong) and NO to question 2. There is an exception but you'd have to read and understand the code book and it doesn't sound like it applies to your circumstances.


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## jakeo (Sep 14, 2004)

ih772 said:


> Before you go running wire through conduit, you really need to check the code book for the type of wire/cable that is allowed and the size the conduit needs to be. There are too many armchair and unlicensed wanna be electricians giving erroneous and bad advice in this thread.


100% Agree. People dont realize that MOST other home owner chores wont burn your house down at 2am. I never heard of a person dieing because their toilet leaked:lol:


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

jakeo said:


> 100% Agree. People dont realize that MOST other home owner chores wont burn your house down at 2am. I never heard of a person dieing because their toilet leaked:lol:


 I have killed a couple of subed plumbers over leaking toilets on new costruction.


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

I asked my wife about this and she said to run your 220 line to a sub panel in your room and you can take your 220 and 120 circuits off this panel. She also said you should add an interconnected smoke detector if the room is not so equiped. She said your liscensed electrican will know all this before he pulls the permitt.


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## double trouble (Nov 20, 2003)

plugger said:


> I asked my wife about this and she said to run your 220 line to a sub panel in your room and you can take your 220 and 120 circuits off this panel. She also said you should add an interconnected smoke detector if the room is not so equiped. She said your liscensed electrican will know all this before he pulls the permitt.


 If the dryer circuit is an older one , It might not have a coated neutral wire, only 2 hots and a bare ground/neutral. If there are 4 wires you still might not have the ampacity to run the dryer and whatever else the sub panel is going to run. That would depend on the size,type of wire and size of conduit run to the dryer as well as the breaker in the original panel. My gut says the sub panel idea would work fine with a little tweaking. Been there ......
A five minute look and someone would know.


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## wirenut (Jan 17, 2011)

Largemouth said:


> I need to have a 220 line run to my mud room for a dryer. Can I branch off that for 110v lights and outlets, or do I have to run a separate line for the 110?


Please hire a Licensed Electrician, remember kids," don't try this at home; we are professionals!


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## Largemouth (Feb 23, 2011)

Don't worry. This project is getting outsourced. I just like to become educated about the repair and know my options before I start dishing out money. Too many scams, hacks, a people who do unnecessary work on your dime. Thanks for the info!


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## WoW (Oct 26, 2010)

Largemouth said:


> If the dedicated 220 is running through conduit on the outside of the house, does the 110 line have to run through it's own conduit, or can they be in the same run?


If the conduit runs out of the house, up the house and back in to the house...it already sounds like a cobbled up mess.

If you are gonna do a project, why not unfug what you have and do it right? It sounds like you already have the dedicated 220 (check your box to make sure the cobbler did not double tap another breaker to get that extra line) so getting your 110 to where you need to shouldn't be a problem even if you don't have room in the box. For what you stated, you can install another run out of a lightly loaded circuit at a junction box whereever one might be conveniently installed.

Right electricians?


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## wirenut (Jan 17, 2011)

WoW said:


> If the conduit runs out of the house, up the house and back in to the house...it already sounds like a cobbled up mess.
> 
> If you are gonna do a project, why not unfug what you have and do it right? It sounds like you already have the dedicated 220 (check your box to make sure the cobbler did not double tap another breaker to get that extra line) so getting your 110 to where you need to shouldn't be a problem even if you don't have room in the box. For what you stated, you can install another run out of a lightly loaded circuit at a junction box whereever one might be conveniently installed.
> 
> Right electricians?


I would enjoy some pics of the panel.


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## Largemouth (Feb 23, 2011)

WoW said:


> If the conduit runs out of the house, up the house and back in to the house...it already sounds like a cobbled up mess.
> 
> If you are gonna do a project, why not unfug what you have and do it right? It sounds like you already have the dedicated 220 (check your box to make sure the cobbler did not double tap another breaker to get that extra line) so getting your 110 to where you need to shouldn't be a problem even if you don't have room in the box. For what you stated, you can install another run out of a lightly loaded circuit at a junction box whereever one might be conveniently installed.
> 
> Right electricians?


 
WOW, someone needs to get off their high horse and know what the hell they are talking about before they open their ignorant trap! 

What cobbler? What extra line? FYI genious, the house was professionally rewired several years ago after I bought it. When I got it, there were still screw in fuses. I dumped over $3000 having it upgraded and rewired correctly and up to code. There's 4-15A 110V circuits in a 100A service as of now. The electrician who did the work then has moved on, so I'm shopping around for a quote in July when I'm up there.

The reason I want to run conduit for now is because it's a single level log home on a slab with real wood paneling and running the wiring through the walls in not an option at this point. Open log ceiling, so running it in a ceiling is not an option to this location. But, I do need a dryer. The mud room is only about 20' down the side of the house from where the breaker panel sits, so I figured for now, I'd have it run outside behind the bushes and out of sight. When I remodel the kitchen and open up the wall, then I'll have someone come back and wire it up from the inside. Get it? 

Is that a good enough explanation for you? Any better ideas on how to get it there?


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## Largemouth (Feb 23, 2011)

wirenut said:


> I would enjoy some pics of the panel.


 Sorry. No electrical porn.  She does look damn good though.


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## highcaliberconsecrator (Oct 16, 2009)

extension chords...:lol:


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## Huffy (Jan 19, 2009)

Forget electricians and running new lines. Just stick a small generator in the mud room and pipe the exhaust out a window.


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## WoW (Oct 26, 2010)

Largemouth said:


> WOW, someone needs to get off their high horse and know what the hell they are talking about before they open their ignorant trap!
> 
> What cobbler? What extra line? FYI genious, the house was professionally rewired several years ago after I bought it. When I got it, there were still screw in fuses. I dumped over $3000 having it upgraded and rewired correctly and up to code. There's 4-15A 110V circuits in a 100A service as of now. The electrician who did the work then has moved on, so I'm shopping around for a quote in July when I'm up there.
> 
> ...


A little touchy are we?:lol:

When I see read of lines run outside and then back inside as a means of routing without some explanation and then questions regarding snatching 110 off a 220 line, the ONLY thing that comes to mind is a cobble job.

And, if you had been in the homes that I have been in with double taps and the like, you might understand why somebody else mentioned seeing a pic of the panel because alot of problems start right there by cobblers.

I am not an electrician and when it comes to electrical, the phone book in my cell is a wonderful thing when I need to know the right way to accomplish what I need to achieve. 

So you got it professionally rewired four years ago with a panel upgrade to a big 100 amp panel eh. Ok.....maybe that electrician of yours moved on to installing 150 or 200 amp service panels too....as we all know that the 7P's always apply during upgrades.


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## jakeo (Sep 14, 2004)

I'm reading this and shaking my head because I see alot of possible hazards being overlooked.
When it comes to getting a "Upgraded Service", it's NOT just taking out a 60amp fuse box and installing a 100amp or bigger breaker box....all you got there was the need to not change fuses. Thats NOT a service Upgrade.

A *Professional* Service upgrade consists of PULLING A PERMIT FIRST.
The Professional will either have the power company cut the drops or cut them themself and hook up temporary power for lights and power tools.
They will remove the existing panal and ALL of the outside service equiptment and replace it according to the size needed for the new service. That includes replacing the service conductors and sizing accordingly.
Then they will start spliting up the existing circuits and rewiring the house to the NEC or the local code specifications. This means seperate circuits to certain appliances and seperating 15amp circuits from 20 amp circuits. The 220 volt appliances shall be wired according to the nameplate ratings or to the NEC..whichever is greater.
The *Professional* will then call for a Inspection after ALL the grounding and bonding is complete. 
After the inspection, the *PROFESSIONAL* will call the power company or the inspector will release it so that the lineman from the Power company can come and hook up the new service equiptment or the *PROFESSIONAL* can hook it up himself.
Then you have a PROPER SERVICE CHANGE and the house has been brought up to TODAYS code.
Anyone that does less has NO businerss touching ANY of the service.

Yes I may have used a few words in the above "RANT" that some might not understand but I hate to see electricity being played with by un-skilled and unlicensed people.


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## Largemouth (Feb 23, 2011)

jakeo said:


> I'm reading this and shaking my head because I see alot of possible hazards being overlooked.
> When it comes to getting a "Upgraded Service", it's NOT just taking out a 60amp fuse box and installing a 100amp or bigger breaker box....all you got there was the need to not change fuses. Thats NOT a service Upgrade.
> 
> A *Professional* Service upgrade consists of PULLING A PERMIT FIRST.
> ...


 
:lol: :lol: :lol: Another ASSumer! :lol: :lol: :lol: 

What the hell makes you think that wasn't done? Did I not say rewire? Or are you illiterate?  Service was disconnected, new box relocated with new wires between the fuse panel and box, and between box and utility line coming from the pole. Lots of rewiring inside. I actually had less circuits when they were done tracing everything down and combining stuff like a single circuit powering one living room outlet and light. Nothing else. It WAS a complete hack and cobble job before I got a hold of it. That's why I was pretty insulted by your and WoW's ASSumptions! Ask a question before you ASSume and make complete idiots out of yourselves!!! 

Before and after pics. I'll take a shot of the remains of the orange inspection sticker on the right side next time I'm up there. Just for you two!


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## Largemouth (Feb 23, 2011)

Next???? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ya know, people come here looking for advice and try to get educated on a subject and there's no reason for the crap a few a-holes like to dish out from their pedestal. If I was "cobbling" this together myself, why the hell would I even ask? I'd look it up on the net myself and do it. I meerely wanted to get a little educated on what my options were before I started getting quotes, and those a-holes instantly turn me into some kind of hack, endangering my family, after I 've spent $1000's doing it the RIGHT way! Can we get a middle finger icon on the site please???? :lol:


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## WoW (Oct 26, 2010)

Largemouth said:


> Next???? :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Ya know, people come here looking for advice and try to get educated on a subject and there's no reason for the crap a few a-holes like to dish out from their pedestal.
> 
> ...


Ya know, speakin of a-holes coming on the site and not providing all the details and then slamming the people that care to respond....hell yes, bring on that middle finger icon so members can tell thos folks just exactly what to do with their questions.

If you really knew so friggin much, you wouldn't be coming on the net looking for handouts and then biting the hands that are trying to feed you.

You do have a very large mouth.....is it what you use to compensate for a pea brain?

Have fun with your thread and don't be surprised if others simply decline to respond to your queries.


Geesh....


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## Largemouth (Feb 23, 2011)

WoW said:


> Ya know, speakin of a-holes coming on the site and not providing all the details and then slamming the people that care to respond....hell yes, bring on that middle finger icon so members can tell thos folks just exactly what to do with their questions.
> 
> If you really knew so friggin much, you wouldn't be coming on the net looking for handouts and then biting the hands that are trying to feed you.
> 
> ...


 
No, I think the problem lies with you two, not my question or lack of a full detailed description of my entire electrical system and house. :lol: Plenty of other people replied civily and thank you! You two like to ASSume allot out of I guess arrogance, and in turn I have to defend myself and make you look like a fool in the end. Shouldn't you be apologising after I posted the pics of it being done the right way, contrary to your buddy's claim? Whatever, I got the info I needed. Thanks to those others who replied with advice, not ASSumptions and unfounded criticism!


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## jakeo (Sep 14, 2004)

Largemouth said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: Another ASSumer! :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> What the hell makes you think that wasn't done? Did I not say rewire? Or are you illiterate?  Service was disconnected, new box relocated with new wires between the fuse panel and box, and between box and utility line coming from the pole. Lots of rewiring inside. I actually had less circuits when they were done tracing everything down and combining stuff like a single circuit powering one living room outlet and light. Nothing else. It WAS a complete hack and cobble job before I got a hold of it. That's why I was pretty insulted by your and WoW's ASSumptions! Ask a question before you ASSume and make complete idiots out of yourselves!!!
> 
> Before and after pics. I'll take a shot of the remains of the orange inspection sticker on the right side next time I'm up there. Just for you two!


Well Ive seen enough in 1 picture....thanks for proving my point...LMAO!!:lol:
HAGD


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## BIG DAVE (Mar 3, 2003)

jakeo said:


> Well Ive seen enough in 1 picture....thanks for proving my point...LMAO!!:lol:
> HAGD


3' from a window???


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## jakeo (Sep 14, 2004)

Nope ( u r thinking POINT OF ATTATCHMENT)


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## Burksee (Jan 15, 2003)

.....so quit your b------ about what your getting here. 

Here's some advice, get out your yellow pages, look up an electrical contractor and go bother those people.... :evil:


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## double trouble (Nov 20, 2003)

jakeo said:


> Nope ( u r thinking POINT OF ATTATCHMENT)


count that violation. 
Just like the show hometime where I counted 4 violations in a 3 minute segment.

Just a suggestion. You could run a 4 wire underground uf cable or pipe it totally underground with thhn or xhhw into each end into the building (technically a violation too ) . That would solve the pipe outside the building problem. Make sure the trench is deep enough. I would have it go to a sub panel for future use. I have done this way a few times and it looks cleaner. 
I am amazed how arrogant a-ho electricians can be. 
I know because I am one or at least I was one till I got a clue. 
You 2 need to get clued in. 

Our code book is a mish mash of 100 years . The code really says that if you want to do it, have at it. Then let the authorized jurisdiction find it before it kills someone. :lol:
So you 2 quibbling about wiring methods is both mute and invalid. 
I hope your project works out . let me know if I can help out.


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## jakeo (Sep 14, 2004)

double trouble said:


> count that violation.
> Just like the show hometime where I counted 4 violations in a 3 minute segment.
> 
> Just a suggestion. You could run a 4 wire underground uf cable or pipe it totally underground with thhn or xhhw into each end into the building (technically a violation too ) . That would solve the pipe outside the building problem. Make sure the trench is deep enough. I would have it go to a sub panel for future use. I have done this way a few times and it looks cleaner.
> ...


SHHH..Dont give out your knowledge to a person that believes he has all the answers. This forum is for people that are willing to take critisism(SP?) and be man enough to accept it if they goofed up.
I SURE did...... I PRAY he has professional help.
If a individual do's not atleast have the smarts to fill out their profile, how can they expect us as REAL members to take them serious.


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## Largemouth (Feb 23, 2011)

jakeo said:


> SHHH..Dont give out you knowledge to a person that believes he has all the answers. This forum is for people that are willing to take critisism(SP?) and be man enough to accept it if they goofed up.
> I SURE did...... I PRAY he has professional help.
> If a individual do's not atleast have the smarts to fill out their profile, how can they expect us as REAL members to take them serious.


 
You can't read or spell, yet people are supposed to put their lives in your hands, hoping you read the code correctly?    I'll trust the inspector before you any day. You pray I have professional help? I pray you get your butt back to night school!!! REAL electricians can at least spell, I'd hope!


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## jakeo (Sep 14, 2004)

Largemouth said:


> You can't read or spell, yet people are supposed to put their lives in your hands, hoping you read the code correctly?    I'll trust the inspector before you any day. You pray I have professional help? I pray you get your butt back to night school!!! REAL electricians can at least spell, I'd hope!


Thank you for the advise,,,,,I appreciate your concern on my spelling.
BTW...Have you ever heard of a .Ah heck.......YALL KNOW :lol:
IMO...Enuff knowledge passed.......Shutterdown.


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## TheGift (Dec 14, 2010)

if the dryer wire is a 10-3 wire you could place a 8 circuit subpanel to the dryer wire, from there u need to seperate the grounded neutral from the grounding conducter which is bare or green. From this point run a 10-3 wire off the subpanel and instal a dryer plug. you will then have 6 other circuits to use for 110 volt lighting and plugs. This is taking a chance as far as overload but if you wanna try it with no inspections it will work and if the load is too much the breaker trips. I personally would run a seperate 10-3 cable or thhn wires on the exterior in a conduit and then into a subpanel near where your new circuits will be just make sure the panel is accesible. leave old dryer circuit as is and just run a seperate 10-3 that will carry up to 6-8 circuits at 110volt.


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## Largemouth (Feb 23, 2011)

TheGift said:


> if the dryer wire is a 10-3 wire you could place a 8 circuit subpanel to the dryer wire, from there u need to seperate the grounded neutral from the grounding conducter which is bare or green. From this point run a 10-3 wire off the subpanel and instal a dryer plug. you will then have 6 other circuits to use for 110 volt lighting and plugs. This is taking a chance as far as overload but if you wanna try it with no inspections it will work and if the load is too much the breaker trips. I personally would run a seperate 10-3 cable or thhn wires on the exterior in a conduit and then into a subpanel near where your new circuits will be just make sure the panel is accesible. leave old dryer circuit as is and just run a seperate 10-3 that will carry up to 6-8 circuits at 110volt.


 Thanks. I talked to someone today. Looks like I probably be running the subpanel through conduit on the outside. Won't be much load. The 220 dryer, then a single overhead light, interior, and exterior outlet

As for the "placement" issue on the meter. Probably 20% of the houses I've looked at in the last two days while driving around here were in violation, including my current house. :lol: I'd have to measure, but I don't think there's 3' between any two windows in that place that you could even place the meter. I guarantee it passed inspection because the electricity was turned off for more than a year and it had to be at least 100 amp w/breakers and pass inspection, or I couldn't get service. Thus, the costly upgrade.


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## jakeo (Sep 14, 2004)

TheGift said:


> if the dryer wire is a 10-3 wire you could place a 8 circuit subpanel to the dryer wire, from there u need to seperate the grounded neutral from the grounding conducter which is bare or green. From this point run a 10-3 wire off the subpanel and instal a dryer plug. you will then have 6 other circuits to use for 110 volt lighting and plugs. This is taking a chance as far as overload but if you wanna try it with no inspections it will work and if the load is too much the breaker trips. I personally would run a seperate 10-3 cable or thhn wires on the exterior in a conduit and then into a subpanel near where your new circuits will be just make sure the panel is accesible. leave old dryer circuit as is and just run a seperate 10-3 that will carry up to 6-8 circuits at 110volt.


Great advise if you are building LEGOS.....GET REAL.......ELECTRICITY DOES NOT KILL........ITS THE STUPID THINGS PEOPLE DO WITH IT THAT DOES.

Mods.............IMO this thread has run its course------PLEASE shut it down B4 someone gets hurt.


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## TheGift (Dec 14, 2010)

jakeo said:


> Great advise if you are building LEGOS.....GET REAL.......ELECTRICITY DOES NOT KILL........ITS THE STUPID THINGS PEOPLE DO WITH IT THAT DOES.
> 
> Mods.............IMO this thread has run its course------PLEASE shut it down B4 someone gets hurt.



there are several ways to wire this situation so dont push my buttons.


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## TheGift (Dec 14, 2010)

jakeo said:


> Great advise if you are building LEGOS.....GET REAL.......ELECTRICITY DOES NOT KILL........ITS THE STUPID THINGS PEOPLE DO WITH IT THAT DOES.
> 
> Mods.............IMO this thread has run its course------PLEASE shut it down B4 someone gets hurt.


 
real electricians dont need pole wussies to reconnect and disconnect live overhead triplex, been doing that with leather gloves for years. my boss fell through k-mart ceiling while wiring 277 volt lights.


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## jakeo (Sep 14, 2004)

TheGift said:


> real electricians dont need pole wussies to reconnect and disconnect live overhead triplex, been doing that with leather gloves for years. my boss fell through k-mart ceiling while wiring 277 volt lights.


I agree 100% but down here they changed their union contract and by us doing it , its taking their work so now they fine you. Thats why I said either/or.


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