# .22-250 or .243 WIN for multipurpose rifle?



## BURNiNATOR (Nov 26, 2006)

Hello there... new to this forum.

I was wondering what would be the best caliber for a rifle that I would mainly use for varmint hunting, but would also use occasionally for Deer?

Thanks.


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## fbuckner (Apr 7, 2006)

.243 it isnt listed in the hunting guide but it is in the big book the DNR go by that .223 is the smallest legal rifle allowed for the taking of deer.


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## walkercoonhunter (Feb 17, 2006)

I think that the .243 is the smallest I would go for deer hunting. It is a real nice round for coyotes. Dont know if Id use it for real small game though.


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## HunterHawk (Dec 8, 2005)

thats crazy i thought .243 was the smallest you could use for deer?.. i sure wouldnt use a .223 if it was legal


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## BURNiNATOR (Nov 26, 2006)

fbuckner said:


> .243 it isnt listed in the hunting guide but it is in the big book the DNR go by that .223 is the smallest legal rifle allowed for the taking of deer.


Can you explain further on the 'hunting guide'?


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## wild bill (Apr 20, 2001)

fbuckner said:


> .243 it isnt listed in the hunting guide but it is in the big book the DNR go by that .223 is the smallest legal rifle allowed for the taking of deer.


thats the first time i have ever heard that. so theres a big book the dnr have with laws they dont share in the hunting guides????

this might help you burninator.

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31516&highlight=smallest+caliber


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

fbuckner said:


> .243 it isnt listed in the hunting guide but it is in the big book the DNR go by that .223 is the smallest legal rifle allowed for the taking of deer.


Sorry but there is no such thing. Any caliber rifle is legal as long as it is not a rimfire. Even a .22 centerfire is legal to take deer in the rifle zone.


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## fbuckner (Apr 7, 2006)

there is no such thing as what the law book or the caliber? The Lt that is in charge of the hunters safety says it is in the books as .223 just like they have laws in alaska for minimum caliber for bear and moose. and in BC for caribou


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## Dom (Sep 19, 2002)

BURNiNATOR -- get a .243 if you even occassionally plan on hunting deer, unless of course you go hunting for them and never take a shot at any.

I've also noted that the law says any centerfire rifle, which I personally think is ludicrist. Keep hoping the DNR will change it someday. I believe .243 should be absolute minimum, with .257 a better choice on the low end.

The object should not be to see how low caliber-wise you can go, heck, give me a hornet then and I'd have to pray everytime I shot a deer if I'd ever find it. 22's just don't leave much of a a blood trail, jmho, Waidmannsheil, Dom.


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

Any caliber of firearm except .22 caliber or smaller rimfire can be used. I don't believe the 22 centerfires are enough gun for deer. Go with the 243.


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## wild bill (Apr 20, 2001)

fbuckner said:


> there is no such thing as what the law book or the caliber? The Lt that is in charge of the hunters safety says it is in the books as .223 just like they have laws in alaska for minimum caliber for bear and moose. and in BC for caribou


so where exactly are these books of so called laws?


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## fbuckner (Apr 7, 2006)

What we get when we buy a lic is the basics. A DNR officer will have a small pocket type book that would resemble a kids bible. And if you think that what is in the hunting and fishing guide is all the conservation laws you are outta your mind. You can whip out that guide when you are being handed a ticket and say it doesnt say it in here. The first thing he/she will tell you is ignorance of the law is no excuse.


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## jsmith2232 (Jan 4, 2006)

.243 A 22-250 Is Too Small For Deer And With A .243 You Can Go From 55-100 Grain Bullet Weights


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

I'd go with the 22-250, If you are truly looking for a varmint rifle that will occasionaly swat a deer. I would think you will spend significantly more rounds on woodchucks,crows,coyotes, ect. than deer. As far as .22 centerfires being "too small for deer"....BULL. The last 20 or so that got in front of my .223 were fairly impressed with the lethality of that "little" gun.


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

KLR said:


> I'd go with the 22-250, If you are truly looking for a varmint rifle that will occasionaly swat a deer. I would think you will spend significantly more rounds on woodchucks,crows,coyotes, ect. than deer. As far as .22 centerfires being "too small for deer"....BULL. The last 20 or so that got in front of my .223 were fairly impressed with the lethality of that "little" gun.


While I sure can't argue with the success you've with it, the difference between you and BURNiNATOR is no doubt experience. Most 22 centerfires for deer are marginal at best. I've shot deer with a 223 and did a tour in Iraq with it. I'm not impressed. Just because you can kill something with a cartridge, doesn't make it an ideal one. I can kill deer with my 22 LR or sit in my stand with a shotgun and #6 shot and kill one. Does that make it ideal for deer? Many elephants have been taken with the 7mm Mauser, does this make it an elephant round? 

I know a guy who took his 223 out to Montana and shot at a nice mule deer buck. It took off and he was sure he hit it. Another hunter ended up shooting it with his 30-06. What they found was the 223 hit a rib and was deflected. It didn't even penetrate to the vitals. He won't use it on deer again. 

IMO, an ideal deer (or any game for that matter) cartridge is one that can *reliably* penetrate to the vitals at all angles inside the ranges I normally shoot. At the farm, this could be 300 yards. A 223 cannot make those shots and reliably penetrate to the vitals at some of the angles I'm presented. 

BURNiNATOR appears to be a fairly new hunter and a 22 centerfire is not the caliber for him to try and shoot deer. The 243 is a superior round for deer and a great varmint round. It is much better for his experience and what he plans to use it for.


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## mhodnettjr (Jan 30, 2005)




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## theduke (Apr 14, 2005)

Yes get a .243 you can use it for both, to answer your question. I have never had a problem at all with mine for killing a deer. I have taken 9 deer with my 22-.250. Its fine since all of my shots were perfect, I might be a little nervous if I didnt have it dialed right in. Thats not what you asked so I will just stop. but any ways a .243 is plenty for a deer and not overkill for coyotes.


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## adam bomb (Feb 27, 2006)

although the .22-250, .222, .223 will all kill deer with the right bullet, within its effective range, etc..., you would be much better off to go with the .243 if you plan to hunt deer. the reasons why have already been discussed. a .243 will also work great on varmints. a .243 WSSM is another good option.

but, if you decide you must go with a .22 cal, then i would suggest the .223 WSSM. that is one heck of a rifle. it will effectively kill deer within its limitations. it has a tremendous muzzle velocity of 3850 fps with a 55 gr ballistic silver tip bullet. i have killed several deer with this gun/bullet combo. all shots were 100 yds or less. i would personally limit my shot distance to 150 with this gun on whitetail simply because it looses too much energy beyond that.

here are all of the calibers and few that werent brought up that are in the realm of "small bores" and their ft. lbs of energy @ 200 yds with winchester ballistic tip ammunition. each round was the largest available for its respected caliber in this bullet style. IMHO, i wouldnt shoot a deer with anything that doesnt hit without at least 1100-1200 ft. lbs. of energy.

by looking at these ballistic comparisons your choices should be clear for the gun that will suit both your needs. and none of them are in the top 3. my basis for this is that most shots are inside of 200 yds. probably more like 100 yd, but hey.

.22-250 has 1027 ft. lbs @ 200 yds-55 gr ballistic silver tip
.222 has 556 ft. lbs @ 200 yds-40 gr ballistic silver tip
.223 has 782 ft. lbs @ 200 yds-55 gr ballistic silver tip 
.223 WSSM has 1147 ft. lbs. @ 200 yds-55 gr ballistic silver tip 
.243 has 1455 ft. lbs. @ 200 yds 95 gr ballistic silver tip
.243 WSSM has 1610 ft. lbs @ 200 yds-95 gr ballistic silver tip


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## BURNiNATOR (Nov 26, 2006)

Thanks for everybody's help.

It looks like I'll be going with the .243. I checked out the ballistics of a hornady 58 grain V-MAX .243 and the equivalent hornady .22-250 V-MAX. The .243, if sighted in at 200 yards is .8" high at 100 yards and 5" low at 300. The .22-250 was .6" high at 100 yards and 4.5" low at 300. To my untrained eye, it looks like they have pretty similar trajectory paths within the ranges I'll be using it.

Is this accurate for me to make this conclusion based on the ballistics provided by hornady?


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## glock29 (Mar 16, 2005)

Yes it is... 

I have a 243 and use the 58 gr Hornaday Vmax for yotes. It will be worse on bobcats and fox. If you plan on saving the fur...this isn't a real good choice of bullet. I would look for something larger and less explosive. I don't care about the fur so I love them. They cause a shower of fur on impact....:evil: 

As far as deer, the 243 is okay IMHO but you must make a good shot. I assume you know that you need a different bullet than the 58 gr Vmax for deer. We shoot 90 gr Remington Scirroco(sp?) for deer. I personally won't hunt deer with the 243. I lost a huge buck years ago with one of my kids 243's when I took a shot at a running deer on a bad angle. It was a shot I believe to this day would have resulted in a dead deer found had I been toting my 06 or 308 that day....:sad: 

Good Hunting to you.....


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## kbkrause (Feb 12, 2002)

glock29 said:


> I lost a huge buck years ago with one of my kids 243's when I took a shot at a *running deer on a bad angle*. It was a shot I believe to this day would have resulted in a dead deer found had I been toting my 06 or 308 that day....:sad:


Maybe it wasnt the bullet...


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

M1Garand said:


> While I sure can't argue with the success you've with it, the difference between you and BURNiNATOR is no doubt experience. Most 22 centerfires for deer are marginal at best. I've shot deer with a 223 and did a tour in Iraq with it. I'm not impressed. Just because you can kill something with a cartridge, doesn't make it an ideal one. I can kill deer with my 22 LR or sit in my stand with a shotgun and #6 shot and kill one. Does that make it ideal for deer? Many elephants have been taken with the 7mm Mauser, does this make it an elephant round?
> 
> I know a guy who took his 223 out to Montana and shot at a nice mule deer buck. It took off and he was sure he hit it. Another hunter ended up shooting it with his 30-06. What they found was the 223 hit a rib and was deflected. It didn't even penetrate to the vitals. He won't use it on deer again.
> 
> ...


I won't argue anything you've said here except...the initial post wasn't looking for a "ideal" deer rifle. He ws looking for an ideal varmint rifle and an occasional use deer rifle...I made no judgement of his experience/ability. If I was paying the long dollar for an out of state or country hunt- my first choice wouldn't be my .223 either. The main point of my post was to refute those who were saying it couldn't/shouldn't be attempted. Either way a person should not attempt to take any game unless they are completely confident in their abilities to cleanly harvest with the weapon of choice. I'll wager you more deer have been lost by people hunting with the latest .300 wizbang cannon they couldn't handle than by people shooting too small of a gun.


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## ont-canuck (Jan 10, 2006)

The .243 is just what you are looking for. Like someone else said, use the 55 grain bullets for coyotes and MAKE SURE to use 90 or 100 grain quality bullets for deer. I use 100 grain nosler partitions in my 6mm Rem. (basically a 243 on steroids) and had a 2-rib pass through shot on a 205lb dressed buck this year at 250 yards - better than I expected! That is deer number 9 for that gun, I use 80 grain varmit bullets for the yotes. You might want to look at the 6mm rem, 257 roberts, or even the 25-06, or the new short-magnums as well.


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## wild bill (Apr 20, 2001)

ont-canuck said:


> The .243 is just what you are looking for. Like someone else said, use the 55 grain bullets for coyotes and MAKE SURE to use 90 or 100 grain quality bullets for deer. I use 100 grain nosler partitions in my 6mm Rem. (basically a 243 on steroids) and had a 2-rib pass through shot on a 205lb dressed buck this year at 250 yards - better than I expected! That is deer number 9 for that gun, I use 80 grain varmit bullets for the yotes. You might want to look at the 6mm rem, 257 roberts, or even the 25-06, or the new short-magnums as well.


you dont hear much about the 6mms. mostly just the .243s. i use the 100 grain noslers in my rem 6mm and have killed many a deer with that gun. i havent played with varmit loads in it like i had planned but i wouldnt think twice about shooting a deer with it.


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

BURNiNATOR said:


> Thanks for everybody's help.
> 
> It looks like I'll be going with the .243. I checked out the ballistics of a hornady 58 grain V-MAX .243 and the equivalent hornady .22-250 V-MAX. The .243, if sighted in at 200 yards is .8" high at 100 yards and 5" low at 300. The .22-250 was .6" high at 100 yards and 4.5" low at 300. To my untrained eye, it looks like they have pretty similar trajectory paths within the ranges I'll be using it.
> 
> Is this accurate for me to make this conclusion based on the ballistics provided by hornady?


As Glock29 said, when you get ammo for deer, don't get the V-Max, they're varmint bullets. If you want the plastic tipped Hornadys for deer, it's the SST's you'll want.


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## BURNiNATOR (Nov 26, 2006)

Again, thanks for everybody's input!

Now that we've decided on a caliber (.243 win), can I get some input on factory ammunition? The two cartridges I've narrowed it down to are the Hornady 243 WIN 58 GR V-MAX MOLY and the Federal 243 WIN 55 GR NOSLER BALLISTIC TIP.

They both have very similar trajectories. So can anybody provide some insight?

Thanks.


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## glock29 (Mar 16, 2005)

kbkrause said:


> Maybe it wasnt the bullet...


It's a long story but it's MY story and I'm sticking to it...06 would have made a big difference...


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## glock29 (Mar 16, 2005)

BURNiNATOR said:


> Now that we've decided on a caliber (.243 win), can I get some input on factory ammunition? The two cartridges I've narrowed it down to are the Hornady 243 WIN 58 GR V-MAX MOLY and the Federal 243 WIN 55 GR NOSLER BALLISTIC TIP.


I have used both in action and at the range. I recommend the Hornady V Max....


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## RSGS (Oct 1, 2001)

Perhaps another alternative is to go with a .30-06. You can use this caliber for deer (of course) and then for varmints, you can use the Accelerator round. It is a .223 bullet in a sabot that utilizes the .30-06 cartridge. I've used this in the past before I was able to purchase two separate rifles. It is very accurate and the velocity approaches 4000fps. Very deadly for varmints. I have not looked for the Accelerator rounds on the shelf lately, but have bought all the reloading components at a Gun Show. I also have the reloading data for them. One rifle  two calibers.


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

BURNiNATOR said:


> Again, thanks for everybody's input!
> 
> Now that we've decided on a caliber (.243 win), can I get some input on factory ammunition? The two cartridges I've narrowed it down to are the Hornady 243 WIN 58 GR V-MAX MOLY and the Federal 243 WIN 55 GR NOSLER BALLISTIC TIP.
> 
> ...


I like the V-Max's also.  If they're not too much, pick up a box of each and see what shoots best in the rifle you get.


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## frostbite (Dec 22, 2004)

I am absolutly positive I can kill deer all day long with my Ruger .204, but I don't plan on taking it after anything larger than a coyote. The .243 would make a nice deer rifle, but I would recomend a 30-06 for versitility. You will find shells absolutely anywhere for it and it will bring down any large game you would ever want to hunt. Use your .17 centerfire, .204, 223, 22-250, etc. for the yotes and fox. You wouldn't take a .22 on a pheasant hunt would ya?


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