# The Perfect Property (Opinions needed)



## Bwana (Sep 28, 2004)

Another fella posted in another forum about his pursuit of new Land. I mentioned that I am also looking for land as well. Farmlegend jumped in with some advice that was helpful but led to even more questions. So I thought, why not ask the guys/gals that are good at this. At this point I am becoming frustrated in my search. thanks for all of your advice and ideas.

I am looking in the U.P. for hunting land in the 80-150 acre size parcel. I am looking in the Delta & Dickenson County Areas but I will be honest, listening to the members of this site who discuss the state of the U.P.'s herd has caused me to slow down and possibly reconsider (is it really that bad). I will primarily hunt Whitetails but I hunt Bobcat & Coyote every year and Bear when I get a tag. I intend to actively manage the property. I am not interested in huge(re: B&C record bucks) bucks but I do get a kick out of seeing quality bucks. My question is: What characteristics should I be looking for in a property? 

In addition, any additional advice is appreciated especially out of the UP guys(example. northjeff discussed in a thread the snowfall characteristics Melstrand as opposed to 20 Miles South of Munising...things like this are very usefull).

Thanks for all of your help.


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## mike hartges (Jun 9, 2003)

Number one, I'd look for a property with a small river or big creek on it. These attract lots of wildlife. Also I'd want a mix of high and low ground with woods, thickets and some openings.


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## bishs (Aug 30, 2000)

In southern Mi farmland, most of us are concerned about providing good cover. In the UP, I would be more concerned with browse/food. For that reason I would try to buy land in an area that has good soil. Menominee county has good soil, which is evident by the farmland. A friend of mine owned 40 acres and had a 7.0 Ph. Now menominee county is loaded with deer, there is too many. If you look into that county I would be looking North of US 2, closer to Dickinson county. Assuming you have mature trees, you can always cut areas to provide thick cover. I would be very particular on the surrounding properties. If the land backed up to a large remote area, that would be great. Another thing I would look into is whether the deer winter on the property or not. I would also talk to locals and look at browse lines, and if there are any high quality shrubs visible, "maple, dogwood, birch, aspen" that would give me an idea of the current deer density.

Water would be a plus either stream or swamp, but a small pond can always be dug.


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2005)

Bwana;

You should get some fine advice here. Mike started it right.

Take your time and make sure the land has the major qualities before you put the down payment. 

Here are just some of the features you should consider being present on your future property. Check the soil type, is it sandy, loam or clay type? Stay away from sand. What is the mix if any of the vegetation, shoot for a variety of trees and brush including conifers. Stay away from single tree type forests. What is the water availability, Mike is right on the money, a year long flowing creek or drainage is ideal. What is the water table level, can a water hole be made? What is the use of the land now and how much is forested, there should be 10% openings minimum, 30% cover minimum (cover is anything from very high grass, brush, cattails, tag alder, cedar or hemlock swamps etc, around 40-60% forested and is the land topography and soil type suitable for future food plots of 5-20% of total land area depending on the property size and adjoining land use. What is the use and size of the neighbors property? Is there any agriculture in the area, a sign that something should be able to grow when planted. 

Shoot for compatible neighbor land use and property acreages, small 20-40 acre property neigbors can be a problem. Is there an adjoining state forest? If so how easy is it for hunters to place themselves next to your shang-ri- la. Believe that last one. 

I have a neighbor who had a hunting shed 6 inches from the property wire ,with a shooting lane cut into my property. Friendly persuasion fixed that. He shot a 2-1/2 year old 17 point buck that scored 144 in 1999 (it is recorded in the CBM book) from that blind. I gave him both sheds of that buck that I found the previous spring. It was a total of eleven points and that is from a yearling. He now has that super buck mounted with the sheds placed just below the head. It looks great and this lucky chap moved his blind at least 50 yards into his land. He has not taken another buck since.

Bwana, it is critical that you choose the right property and note the land ,land use, land sizes, forest type of your neigbors. The larger the land size of your neighbors, hunting clubs etc. the better.


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## BarryPatch (Jul 21, 2004)

I have a neighbor like ed's. I bought 53 acres this summer and had to fence off my rear neighbor who was cutting up downed wood on my property. I also picked up the guy's chairs & beer cans and deposited them over the line. He is staying off but his new "stand" is 3ft. from my line.

On the other hand, my east neighbor is a bishop from the South side of chicago. His church inherited the 108 acre property 25 years ago and it's sat vacant ever since. Best neighbor ever.

I killed two very nice and very tasty deer this year. Both on opening days. My wife's relatives in Marinette/Menomonie hunt the southern UP and three of four were skunked. Also, IMO, UP deer are much lower quality table fare than my local fruit & soy fed herd.


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## wagoneer (Nov 22, 2004)

What kind of habitat work were you hoping to do? Do you want to plant food plots or manage timber stands? Both?

I think plots require higher and drier land. They don't NEED good soil to start with but you'll sure save time, money, and your back starting out better. I always dreamed about finding an abandoned farm, myself.

Since your looking in the UP, here is something you may be interested in looking at:

http://www.forestlandmls.com/webapp/land_sales/HomePageSearchInt.jsp

Mead sells their property on this site. I'd be cautious about these, as some people may be used to hunting these properties like they do state land.


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## brokenarrow (Oct 6, 2003)

I have enjoyed reading all the posts for I would of benifited from this 19 years ago. One very important thing to remember IMO do not buy land ever that is on a heavily traveled highway, car/truck kills take away more nice bucks right before the hunt than you would imagine (locally). One more thing that I realized too late was this. Make sure you have only 1 road infront of the land. Do not buy land that is on the corner of 2 roads. Derr will cross the roads but at certain times of the day and year you will be limited to the deer venturing on your land from only 2 sides and will be trapped unless they turn around or cross a road.
Good luck


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

For me the most important is the number of surrounding hunters/landowners and their ability to access the borders of your property. I'd rather have a marginal habitat property that you can at least work with, than a great habitat piece that you could potentially be over run with other hunters. 

Also, many don't like being adjacent to public land, but I've found it greatly expands my potential hunting property. For example, I've shot 1 buck on my property in the past 7 years, and 4 bucks on public land. I've also never seen another hunter on either. I sometimes drive as much as 7-8 miles away and walk in a mile or two, but I love having many areas to hunt.

Just about any area in the U.P. can potentially produce big bucks. Some of the worst soils in the U.P. have produced the best bucks simply because they have to be very big to survive the winters and the small and weak have been removed by nature since the beginning of the whitetail.

Get a piece with very poor access(accept by yourself), and enough high ground to work with for future food sources and you will be on the right track. Have a little public land around to increase your hunting land and offer an increased amount of access routes to your land for treestands and you may have found a great piece.

I complain about the numbers of deer sometimes(not on my property though) and recognize there are problems in the U.P. with shooting too many mature does in some areas and not enough does in another, but I moved hear BECAUSE of the hunting and feel fortunate to be able to both live and hunt in the same place in a beautiful area. Manage your doe herd properly and do the best you can with the habitat and in just a few short years you can have all the deer you need.

Just some thoughts..


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## sparkkky (Jan 7, 2005)

Ed, why did you say to stay away from sand?


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## Magnet (Mar 2, 2001)

Yeah, what Jeff said.


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## Bob S (Mar 8, 2000)

*Ed, why did you say to stay away from sand?*

Sand will not hold water or nutrients like good soil will. If your goal is to grow good quality food plots. You don`t plant them in sand.


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## halfczech (Nov 27, 2004)

small property big property it can work both ways. I own 35 acres,one of my neighbors owns 180. my prop is deep but narrow.he has 2 shantys 10 yards from my prop line. whos crowding who.


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## davidshane (Feb 29, 2004)

halfczech,

Needless to say this has all been great advice. I'm going to add one thing: remember to keep it fun. 

The whole point of owning property is to be able to enjoy it. Put some thought into how far you want to drive ten years from now. If a 6 hour drive seems to long for weekend trips, then I'd watch going to the U.P.

What type of animals do you want to hunt? I have property in the northern lower that affords desent deer hunting, desent turkey, good bear, cats, yotes, grouse, squirrels, rabbits etc. Depending upon where you choose, you can have better of one thing or nothing of another. Whats important to you?

I would say that the first question you must ask yourself is "for what do I want this property". That will start to narrow down your area. Then ask "how far and I will to drive from Sterling Heights to get there".Once you've done this you can start putting together the other tips to find the right property.

Remember that this property can provide loads of fun for many years to come if you make good choices now. However, bad choices will lead you to marginal use and a bad attitude when taxes and mortage payments come due.

Goos luck!


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

Some great points made above so I'll just add a couple of my own:

Neighbors- I'd try to get a handle on who they are and what their MO during hunting seasons will be. I'd stay away from propertys which which are bounded by small tracts with a deer blind behind each house right on your line!! If you are an absentee landowner, your neighbors can be your best friend or worst enemy.

Center of Section- Our "back 40" is right in the middle of the section. Most of it we hold as sanctuary. During the first few days of rifle season, as guys head to their stands from the roads, guess where the deer will end up???  

There are some RE Agents who specialize in hunting propertys nowadays. You could try them- most RE agents dont have a clue when it comes to hunting land. Good Luck.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Bwana

I took me years of looking before I found what I thought was the perfect piece of hunting land. I took many needless trips because some of the realtors I was dealing with had different idea on what was ideal. I finally typed out a list and gave it too them. Right now I can't find it but there has been similar threads on this subject and it's posted there.

So from memory here's what I gave them.

No farther than 40 acres from AG land. Ideal would be wooded land surrounded by AG land. (AG land tends to be of higher soil quality)

Loamy or clay-loam soil no pure sand soil or saturated soil.

Wooded to wooded/brushy not more than 20% open land.

No closer than 1 mile to any public land.

Not in the Lake Superior watershed.

It must have flowing water that doesn't dry up after the snow melt. A small creek would be fine

No uniforest or even age forested property.

Varying topography and varying habitat types.

Limited adjoining land owners.

Little to no road frontage.

Available electricity but is not required to be right to property line.

No house but an existing camp would be okay.

Please note that existing deer numbers were never even part of my consideration. With proper habitat management, deer will find your piece of land and set up residence. I built my habitat when deer numbers were low and have improving it ever since. Better habitat will produce more fawns and draw deer from lower quality surrounding land.

I took a piece of land that was nearly void of deer in '97 to shooting 3 does every season but one since '00. Deer sightings increased every year since then with '04 being the exception. This last season was the year of the wolf, 4 were sighted on the second day of rifle season and no deer :rant: . The longest I went without seeing a deer in '03 was 2 hours. I sat from dark to dark on 7 of the first 8 days plus one half day.

From '97 thru '04 12 does of varying age, 1-1.5 year old, 2-2.5 year old and 7-3.5 year old bucks have been taken off this quarter section. Only one deer has been taken prior to Thanksgiving weekend.

Buy the best quality land you can afford even if it means you are buying less acreage. If you need any links to some EUP realtors PM me. I'm always looking for another perfect piece of hunting land so I check their sites on a regular basis. If you find what you consider to be your perfect piece of land buy it right away because they don't come along very often. Good Luck with your search.


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## Bwana (Sep 28, 2004)

wagoneer said:


> What kind of habitat work were you hoping to do? Do you want to plant food plots or manage timber stands? Both?


I wanted to start by thanking those that took the time to respond and provide some input to a "rookie". If it was a private message (I will respond to each individually) or a public post I really do appreciate your taking the time to help. I was kinda vague as to my request for information as I did not want to list my preferences and cause anyone not to reply because they were in a different environment than I was looking for; all advice was sought.

wagoneer, I am looking for mostly wooded property; I won't rule out an agricultural area if I can get it at least close to some public land; though I would prefer to border Public Land (with limited access). I will definately watch access to my "line" from the public land hunters as it sounds as if there may be a problem with them hunting too close to the private land. 

I will actively manage my timber for whitetail. Additionally, I would like to add several plots to attract wildlife. While I am primarily a Whitetail Hunter I hunt Bear (when I get a tag), Bobcat and coyote regularly. Since I am a predator hunter I will do what I can to enlarge the rabbit population (snowshoe I would assume in UP) to attract my local song dogs. I really am a nature nut and will do what I can to improve the habitat for all animals (except *****...). 

How I will amend my search to reflect your advice:
-Water is now a requirement....why I didn't think of his in the first place 
-I will avoid sandy soil like the plague (I have also been reading old posts and have "witnessed" the trials of those with Sandy Soil and I have no interest in repeating this)
-I will watch the number of adjoining land holders and avoid many 'small" neighbors; didn't realize this was such a problem
-I will avoid the Lake Superior Watershed 
-I will try to avoid road frontage (again, who knew this was such a problem)

Thanks again.


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

Sand,clay,hard pan, whatever....

A workable property is most important. Sand just takes more fertalizer and lime, but in my opinion that is one of the lesser important considerations because although you CAN change your soil and deer numbers, you can't change your neighbors, roads, potential tresspassing problems, property layout, topography, access, privacy, number of neighbors, etc.


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## mike hartges (Jun 9, 2003)

Bwana, if you go to the local administration, they'll have plat books you can view to determine the size of the adjacent properties. Also, if you go to terraserver on the web, you can view the areas you are interested in from above. You can see if your woodlot is connected to others or if there are openings or fencerows on the adjoining properties. Good luck.


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## sparkkky (Jan 7, 2005)

My place is sandy loam and the whole county is the same.


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## bishs (Aug 30, 2000)

Sandy loam can be one of the best soil types for growing plants. You may be confusing it with having very sandy ground. Whether the soil is "sandy loam" or "clay loam" it just means that sand or clay is a major component. It can be great soil for growing. If your land is very sandy, becoming too dry in the summer is usually a problem.


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

The term "sandy loam" is frequently misused to describe what is really "loamy sand", a markedly lighter soil type. The continuum from sand soils to clay soils goes like this: sand, loamy sand, sandy loam, loam, clay loam, loamy clay, and clay. (There is another portion of the soil triangle, known as "silt", which we'll save for another day). The use of the term "sandy loam" to describe "loamy sand" reminds me very much of the tendency to describe fawns as "yearlings".

Sandy Loam can be fine-grained, highly productive farm ground. It is better-drained soil than is Loam. In growing seasons with above-average rainfall, , like 2004, Sandy Loam soils will likely outproduce Loam soils. In drier years, Loam soils, which are typically heavier and less well-drained, will have the edge.

I strongly encourage anyone interested in land management to get a copy of the soil survey for your county. It is published by the USDA, and generally available from your local FSA/NRCS office. Very worthwhile and educational.


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## Youper (Jul 8, 2001)

Bwana, bears prefer habitat somewhat different from deer. They feel comfortable when a full canopy is close at hand, preferable with tree big enough to climb. If you are serious about hunting bears on _your_ property, then you should have or be near this type of land.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Youper is correct with the full canopy and bears but don't overlook AG areas for bear. AG areas near flowing water contain high bear numbers with some real monsters.

My camp is surrounded by hayfields. It's about 95% forested 5% food plots with high deer and good bear numbers. It has a river with a 40ft deep ravine that intersects with another river just off my property line. Bear were seen 100% of the time that I hunted my bear bait this last year, up to 4 at once. I even had bear come in with high wind and snow near the end of bear season. I only spent one day deer hunting that I did not see a deer. That day I saw 4 wolves, coincidense, I think not.

I don't know if you've looked at the real estate forum but DCUP has a 120 for sale and Rico has a 460 for sale. I've been on Rico's land and know the land surrounding DCUP's. Both pieces are worth a look. There's also a 320 for sale north of Rico's. It's on the wet side but your be able to hunt waterfowl on it.

Good Luck with your search


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## Alpena_Hunter (Oct 22, 2004)

http://www.realestate-mls.com/


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## ublyhunter (Jan 10, 2005)

Menominee is the Ticket!!!



Bwana said:


> Another fella posted in another forum about his pursuit of new Land. I mentioned that I am also looking for land as well. Farmlegend jumped in with some advice that was helpful but led to even more questions. So I thought, why not ask the guys/gals that are good at this. At this point I am becoming frustrated in my search. thanks for all of your advice and ideas.
> 
> I am looking in the U.P. for hunting land in the 80-150 acre size parcel. I am looking in the Delta & Dickenson County Areas but I will be honest, listening to the members of this site who discuss the state of the U.P.'s herd has caused me to slow down and possibly reconsider (is it really that bad). I will primarily hunt Whitetails but I hunt Bobcat & Coyote every year and Bear when I get a tag. I intend to actively manage the property. I am not interested in huge(re: B&C record bucks) bucks but I do get a kick out of seeing quality bucks. My question is: What characteristics should I be looking for in a property?
> 
> ...


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## Bobby (Dec 21, 2002)

Bwana.
I just purchased another tract of land in the UP, therefore I plan to sell 80 acres I have in Marquette county. I am not listing it with a realtor at this time and as I write this note I do not have the township range etc for you. But, here it is
80 acres in Champion Township, Clark Creek splits the property down the middle (it runs 1/2 mile thru), this is a trout stream (aren't they all in the UP?)there is a pond formed by beaver damns. There is great timber and a mix of timber, hemlock, balsam, cedar, spruce, with maple ridges. Much elevation change across the property. Surrounded by large tracts of private CFA and paper company CFA. Good solid road into the property and thru the property. Just above the property the road is gated. It is not gated going into the property. There is no buildings on my property. Only one camp anywhere near this tract and this is the neighbor. They have an old trailer, they use it to hunt, I've never met them. Part of it was select cut about 10 years back. Lots of regeneration in that area. This is good bear area, I've seen much sign (I do not not hunt bear), moose sign and deer sign. Lots of 'yote scat every where, especially when I walk the road above the property. To the east are many acres of clear cut jack pine. I've always seen lots of deer in this area. This area is just east of the property line and is pretty extensive. This property is the edge of the Huron Mountains, when you go east and south it flattens to the plains I describe in the previous sentence. 20 miles from downtown Marquette.

There is a lot of timber this size on the property, this was taken near the pond.










PM for more details.
Bob


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