# I want to do some mods to a zr600 efi ?



## tracker14

I want to do some mods to my zr600 efi. I put a snow stuff rumble pack on this fall. The suspension is being rebuilt right now. But I want do some clutching work and was wondering if anyone has this sled and has done clutching on there's. I also was wondering about changing gears in the chain case if that is possible or not. I'm looking to create a torqe monster that will pull ski's when I want them to. Any ideas or thoughts would be great and thank you for your time.


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## dumredneck

Arcticchat.com Great site and a ton of info for Cats !

First, lose the can, go back to stock, you probably don't believe it but it is costing you power. You could just adjust the suspension to make it wheelie alot, if thats what you really want, that would be cheap. You have a 600cc sled, it is not going to be a "torque Monster" without some serious $ and time investment. I am not saying you can't make it faster/quicker but it is a 600 cc sled. There are lots of mods (pipes/chips/etc.)out there for that sled, just have to do some searching to seperate stuff that really works from stuff that just costs money.


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## tracker14

dumredneck said:


> Arcticchat.com Great site and a ton of info for Cats !
> 
> First, lose the can, go back to stock, you probably don't believe it but it is costing you power. You could just adjust the suspension to make it wheelie alot, if thats what you really want, that would be cheap. You have a 600cc sled, it is not going to be a "torque Monster" without some serious $ and time investment. I am not saying you can't make it faster/quicker but it is a 600 cc sled. There are lots of mods (pipes/chips/etc.)out there for that sled, just have to do some searching to seperate stuff that really works from stuff that just costs money.


 Thats what I've been hearing. I kinda thought I'd lose alittle with the can because of the loose of backpressure. The susprnsion was blown out because the last guy didn't have the limiter straps set right the shock extended to far oblonging the shock eyebolt hole. I thought about v-force stage 3 reeds. I know its not gonna be a f7. but I like playing in the snow. thanks for your help


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## SalmonBum

Reeds will not give you a big gain. Better to spend your money on a clutch kit. As for pulin' you skis off the ground, that's just dumb. it will be fun a few times, but you'll get you butt kicked in the trails. My buddy thought the same as u. He pulled the coupler blocks and messed with the limiter strap. He could wheelie like there was no tomorrow. BUT..... in the trails he couldn't control the sled. When I'm halfway thru a corner, I'm on the gas all the way. I have the weight transfer set up to keep the skiis on the ground so I have control. You it set up to lift, you'll have to come back off the gas to not head for a tree. By the time you get her out of that corner, I'm 3 turns ahead. 

Just remeber, its just a 600, but its still fast. Learn how to ride it well and you can beat bigger sleds no problem. More about skill than anything.

And yes, loose the can before the cops take it.


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## tracker14

I would like to clutch the sled. Is there a preferred kit out there that is better than others. I understand what you mean about the ski's in the air being a problem. I'm not really looking to get that crazy. I think I'm just getting excited because the snows coming. I have plenty of experience on riding my last sled was a formula 3 600 triple. Heavy but lots of speed not real good in tight trails. I'm hoping this 600 twin handles good. I picked it up for $1000 last spring. Thanks for your help


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## SalmonBum

For clutching, you need to figure out how you wanna ride. I have a buddy that is an AC guy and he loves to go fast in a straight line. He bought a Speedwerks kit for his new F8 and likes it. He had a hard time keeping up with my 600 SDI and my buddies 600 Dragon last yr, so he's hoping that helps. I like the twisties, but I'm more of an offtrail guy with the Gade. Most trail kits change your engagement to be much higher, which is not good for the fluff. Personally, I like my setup stock and it's the best for both worlds. I may change out my secondary spring this yr for a better backshift, but thats about it.

The best thing you can do, in my opinion, is spend some time and set up your suspension for YOU and the way you ride and possibly invest in a good set of skis. Having a slower sled set up correctly will beat an improperly setup fast sled everytime.

BTW, My Firechicken ridin' buddy had a 99 ZL 600EFI beore his new F8 Ditch Pickle and he had a kit in it. Not sure what kind, but it really sucked. It took that sled from bad to worse. I'll find out what kind so you can stay away.


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## grouly925

I had a 2000 zr 600 efi and it ran pretty good. I can't remember exactly what I did with the clutches, but I'm pretty sure all I did was change the primary spring to get where I wanted to be. You need to see how your sled is shifting out and if it is hitting peak RPM for the sled, which should be around 8100 rpm if I remember right. I had enough tuning on the 600 so I bought an F7 4 years ago. It requires a lot more rider input than the 600 ever did (cadillac of sled chassis in many people's opinions), but it is a lot quicker and the power to weight is awesome. Sounds like you got a great deal on the sled though. Just remember, there is always someone out there thats faster, and you can't trade reliability for sporadic performance. I agree to go search on arcticchat.com and you will find your answers.


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## D.C.U.P.

SalmonBum said:


> Reeds will not give you a big gain. Better to spend your money on a clutch kit. As for pulin' you skis off the ground, that's just dumb. it will be fun a few times, but you'll get you butt kicked in the trails. My buddy thought the same as u. He pulled the coupler blocks and messed with the limiter strap. He could wheelie like there was no tomorrow. BUT..... in the trails he couldn't control the sled. When I'm halfway thru a corner, I'm on the gas all the way. I have the weight transfer set up to keep the skiis on the ground so I have control. You it set up to lift, you'll have to come back off the gas to not head for a tree. By the time you get her out of that corner, I'm 3 turns ahead.
> 
> Just remeber, its just a 600, but its still fast. Learn how to ride it well and you can beat bigger sleds no problem. More about skill than anything.
> 
> And yes, loose the can before the cops take it.


Is it any wonder so many newspaper headlines up here go something like this: "Downstate man killed in snowmobile accident".

Do yourselves and every other rider a favor and keep the racing on a track and off the trails.


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## SalmonBum

D.C.U.P. said:


> Is it any wonder so many newspaper headlines up here go something like this: "Downstate man killed in snowmobile accident".
> 
> Do yourselves and every other rider a favor and keep the racing on a track and off the trails.


Yeah... why you see that in the paper???? Over 75% of them are boozed up.

Thanks for the advice dad . Don't worry about me, I've had people telling me to slow down my entire life and I'm still kickin'. Sure not gonna start listening to some stranger on a web forum.


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## tracker14

SalmonBum said:


> For clutching, you need to figure out how you wanna ride. I have a buddy that is an AC guy and he loves to go fast in a straight line. He bought a Speedwerks kit for his new F8 and likes it. He had a hard time keeping up with my 600 SDI and my buddies 600 Dragon last yr, so he's hoping that helps. I like the twisties, but I'm more of an offtrail guy with the Gade. Most trail kits change your engagement to be much higher, which is not good for the fluff. Personally, I like my setup stock and it's the best for both worlds. I may change out my secondary spring this yr for a better backshift, but thats about it.
> 
> The best thing you can do, in my opinion, is spend some time and set up your suspension for YOU and the way you ride and possibly invest in a good set of skis. Having a slower sled set up correctly will beat an improperly setup fast sled everytime.
> 
> BTW, My Firechicken ridin' buddy had a 99 ZL 600EFI beore his new F8 Ditch Pickle and he had a kit in it. Not sure what kind, but it really sucked. It took that sled from bad to worse. I'll find out what kind so you can stay away.


 Thanks for your information. I hate to spend a bunch of money and have that happen


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## tracker14

grouly925 said:


> I had a 2000 zr 600 efi and it ran pretty good. I can't remember exactly what I did with the clutches, but I'm pretty sure all I did was change the primary spring to get where I wanted to be. You need to see how your sled is shifting out and if it is hitting peak RPM for the sled, which should be around 8100 rpm if I remember right. I had enough tuning on the 600 so I bought an F7 4 years ago. It requires a lot more rider input than the 600 ever did (cadillac of sled chassis in many people's opinions), but it is a lot quicker and the power to weight is awesome. Sounds like you got a great deal on the sled though. Just remember, there is always someone out there thats faster, and you can't trade reliability for sporadic performance. I agree to go search on arcticchat.com and you will find your answers.


 I'll take this and apply it. I'll ride a few times before making any change to see what I really want to do. Thanks again


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## tracker14

If you can't control a sled or don't have riding experience stay home till you do. Thats my theroy. I don't feel like meeting ski's on the trail. I agree there's negligence out there and thats what kills


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## D.C.U.P.

SalmonBum said:


> Yeah... why you see that in the paper???? Over 75% of them are boozed up.
> 
> Thanks for the advice dad . Don't worry about me, I've had people telling me to slow down my entire life and I'm still kickin'. Sure not gonna start listening to some stranger on a web forum.


Don't flatter yourself; "some stranger on a web forum" doesn't care if you become one with a tree this winter. I'm only "worried" about people like me who ride sensibly. Maybe you actually do, but your post didn't really reflect that.

I'm not a violent guy, but I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to beat the living **** out of some idiot speeding around blind corners on PUBLIC snowmobile trails. These fools often go up on one ski trying to corner when they realize there are actually other riders out there. I'm actually surprised there aren't more fatalities each year.

Booze is part of the equation, no doubt. But speed is the other factor, and just as important.

I have ridden fast machines myself, and enjoy a good speed run. But there is a time and a place for it, IMO. You know, frozen lakes and long, wide straightaways.


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## SalmonBum

D.C.U.P. said:


> I'm not a violent guy, but I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to beat the living **** out of some idiot speeding around blind corners on PUBLIC snowmobile trails.


I'm not viloent either. But There has been times I've wanted to beat the &%$* outta some idiot that was going 20 mph and being a "Trail Captain" not pulling over and letting me by.

Just becuase I tell a guy a few pointers to help his sled have some Get-Up (as he asked, btw) dosen't mean I do 100 mph down the trail doing wheelies. Your definition of FAST may be different that mine. In no way do we ride out of control or crazy, but within' our limts to keep ourself and others safe. Until the DNR set speed limits on the trail, myself, and others are allowed to ride as we please as long as its SAFE, as the law states.


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## dumredneck

Tracker 14
You have been given a great gift.........a lot of VERY GOOD advice, and the best part was it was FREE !


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## SalmonBum

Tracker, where do u live?

Going down 1 tooth (maybe 2) on the top gear will help you gain some low end grunt for cheap, about $20. Normally with only 1 tooth change you will not need to swap chains and will not kill top end. You need to try to find a gear ratio chart for that sled, and what is in it currently. It will give you a breakdown on what ratio you get with what gears, as well as what chain is needed. I have one for Ski doos I can send u for reference.


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## D.C.U.P.

SalmonBum said:


> I'm not viloent either. But There has been times I've wanted to beat the &%$* outta some idiot that was going 20 mph and being a "Trail Captain" not pulling over and letting me by.


At least that "Captain" isn't endangering others.



SalmonBum said:


> Just becuase I tell a guy a few pointers to help his sled have some Get-Up (as he asked, btw) dosen't mean I do 100 mph down the trail doing wheelies.


It wasn't the pointers (which I agree with BTW). It was the implication of racing your buddy down the trails that caught my attention. Too many blind corners for that, IMO.



SalmonBum said:


> Your definition of FAST may be different that mine.


Perhaps it is. I had my old 800cc Indy Storm up to 113mph (clocked by a cop buddy), two C5 Corvettes up to 154 and 145 respectively, and a Honda CBR 600 up to some speed I didn't dare look down to see, but the wind tried taking my helmet and/or head off! :tdo12: All these situations were fast in my book, not sure about you or anyone else. My only rationale for any of these runs was that I was on wide open straightaways with good visibility all around.



SalmonBum said:


> In no way do we ride out of control or crazy, but within' our limts to keep ourself and others safe. Until the DNR set speed limits on the trail, myself, and others are allowed to ride as we please as long as its SAFE, as the law states.


I hope you and your crew are doing your part to keep the trails safe. Trust me, it's appreciated by others - if that matters.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread hijack. I apologize to the OP for my part in derailing this thread.

PS to the OP-I have always been a fan of a good set of sweet-sounding pipes. Seems the aftermarket guys are making them a little quieter these days, so ideally less ticket concern for riders. And with your EFI, you don't have the jetting headache I and so many others have had with carbed sleds/pipes. Often, pipe kits will require or recommend a little clutch work, which will really wake your machine up. And if you are not studded yet, do it ASAP. It really makes a major difference with hookup, both starting and stopping.


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## SalmonBum

D.C.U.P. said:


> At least that "Captain" isn't endangering others.


Atcually, a guy going too slow is just as dangerous as a guy going too fast. Same as a guy going too slow in the fast lane. No matter what you think, The fast lane is for just that. Put a slow guy in that lane and now you have guys passing on the right. Just as dangerous.




D.C.U.P. said:


> It wasn't the pointers (which I agree with BTW). It was the implication of racing your buddy down the trails that caught my attention. Too many blind corners for that, IMO.


We all do it. Its just a fact of life. If you're telling you've NEVER lined up with a buddy in a trail, I'd have to call you a liar. Its the same as a guy saying he's never been to a strip club. Say that and there are only 2 options: Either your lying or your gayy.



D.C.U.P. said:


> Perhaps it is. I had my old 800cc Indy Storm up to 113mph (clocked by a cop buddy), two C5 Corvettes up to 154 and 145 respectively, and a Honda CBR 600 up to some speed I didn't dare look down to see, but the wind tried taking my helmet and/or head off! :tdo12: All these situations were fast in my book, not sure about you or anyone else. My only rationale for any of these runs was that I was on wide open straightaways with good visibility all around.


WOW!!! a 154 in a Vette!! No matter how good the visibility or how straight-the-way, there is always that "something" that could happen. I guess our outlook on speed IS different. Your way too fast for me .




D.C.U.P. said:


> I hope you and your crew are doing your part to keep the trails safe. _Trust me, it's appreciated by others_ - if that matters.
> 
> PS to the OP-I have always been a fan of a good set of sweet-sounding pipes. Seems the aftermarket guys are making them a little quieter these days, so ideally less ticket concern for riders.


Really. You think "others" appreciate the noise a Can makes. I know I don't.

I guess for me telling a guy a few pointers that wants to toot around in the trails with a few buddy's makes me a dangerous, reckless, careless, rider. One that "RACES", as you put it, thru the trails. But for you doing 150+ in a vette and doing sound barrier breaking speeds on a CBR,... well..... your just an angel sent from above. A role model that all should look up to .

Hey Tracker, forget what I said about taking time to set up your sled right. Thats too dangerous. Sell you Cat and buy a Vette. Find a straightaway witha good view and put her in the kitchen. Much safer as DCUP puts it.




D.C.U.P. said:


> I hope you and your crew are doing your part to keep the trails safe. Trust me, it's appreciated by others - _if that matters_.


Oh yeah.... It doesn't matter to me. Maybe you didn't get the Memo. Salmonbum is the Coldest, most heartless MuthaF'er on the planet. I don't care about no one but myself .


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## D.C.U.P.

Geez, you won't let it go, will you? :lol:

It's interesting how you quote me but either totally miss what I type or generate confabulations to fit your convoluted schemata.


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## SalmonBum

Nope. Not when you make me out to be a bad guy because I was trying to help someone out. Face it, snowmobilers like to "play" in the twisties. Its a fact of life. I was telling him the RIGHT thing by suggesting him to take the time to set up the sled properly befoe anything else to make his sled manageable. This is the SAFEST advice you can give someone. Nothing worse than a sled that's not set up correctly and a guy can't control it. YOU try to turn it around and make me look evil, but from your "vette" stroies, sounds like you are 100x times more dangerous than anyone I know.

Here are the Facts: NO ONE last season died by someone "racing" around twisties and hitting another inocent snowmobile (as you make yourself out to be) on a blind corner. Some were booze related or someone doing something stupid like zinging thru a parking lot. There are quite a few where they misjudged a cornere and went off trail. They didn't hurt anyone but themself. And if booze wasn't involved, chances are his sled wasn't "set-up" to be controlable, as way my #1 suggestion to Tracker.

Take a Look: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/Dec1603_80602_7.pdf

To come on here and tell people not to "race" on the trails, but then tell everyone how you do 113 on an old Poo, do 154 in a vette and ungodly speeds on a CBR but says its OK because you were on a "wide open straightaways with good visibility all around", that makes you look like a *Hypocrite*. Don't try to come on here and paint me as a crazy sled rider and make it out like I promote "racing" thru the trails. We are all here to have fun, and if that screwing around with some buds on the trails, thats fine as long as you do it safely. From the sounds of it, your the LAST person that should be giving advice on it, Mr. 154+. Next time keep your mouth shut and stick to the question at topic.

Sure I drive a little on the fast side of life. Difference is I don't do it and tell other not to.


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## tracker14

Thanks to all who gave me information regaurding the mods on my sled. The politics I don't go for,leave that shat in another forum called DO SNOWMOBILE TRAILS NEED MORE REGS... Thanks for staying focused on the topic. Have a good season. OH and ride HARD!


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## tracker14

SalmonBum said:


> Tracker, where do u live?
> 
> Going down 1 tooth (maybe 2) on the top gear will help you gain some low end grunt for cheap, about $20. Normally with only 1 tooth change you will not need to swap chains and will not kill top end. You need to try to find a gear ratio chart for that sled, and what is in it currently. It will give you a breakdown on what ratio you get with what gears, as well as what chain is needed. I have one for Ski doos I can send u for reference.


I will do some checking into this fingergear chart. I was kinda worried about top end lose. But most of my riding is farm fields and back roads. Changing that would basically do what a tooth down on a quad would do give more torque to the driven side.


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## SalmonBum

tracker14 said:


> I will do some checking into this fingergear chart. I was kinda worried about top end lose. But most of my riding is farm fields and back roads. Changing that would basically do what a tooth down on a quad would do give more torque to the driven side.


Small Sprocket (on top):
Go down= more low end\less speed on top
Go Up= less power\ more top end

Larger Sprocket (Bottom)
Go down= less power\ more top end
Go Up= more low end\less speed on top

Most guys with Doo's will play with the small sprocket. Normally 1 tooth down will help the bottom pretty good without a dramatic loss on top end. If you go two, you will see a larger difference on both low end and top speeds. Again, going only 1 you can usually keep the stock chain. Going 2 is 50/50 chance you can keep her. Playing with gears is a cheap way to tune. I stll gotta find out what clutch kit my buddy had.


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## grouly925

I have an excel spreadsheet for calculating the gearing on any sled, but I don't know how to get it on here. I can email it to anyone if they pm their email address.

EDIT: I found the link on arctic chat http://www.arcticchat.com/downloads/snowmobile_gear_chart.xls


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## grouly925

D.C.U.P. said:


> PS to the OP-I have always been a fan of a good set of sweet-sounding pipes. Seems the aftermarket guys are making them a little quieter these days, so ideally less ticket concern for riders. And with your EFI, you don't have the jetting headache I and so many others have had with carbed sleds/pipes. Often, pipe kits will require or recommend a little clutch work, which will really wake your machine up. And if you are not studded yet, do it ASAP. It really makes a major difference with hookup, both starting and stopping.


If you do add pipe to the EFI you will have to add a chip as well. Most will say you can get by with a single, but not twins.


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## D.C.U.P.

SalmonBum said:


> Nope. Not when you make me out to be a bad guy because I was trying to help someone out. Face it, snowmobilers like to "play" in the twisties. Its a fact of life. I was telling him the RIGHT thing by suggesting him to take the time to set up the sled properly befoe anything else to make his sled manageable. This is the SAFEST advice you can give someone. Nothing worse than a sled that's not set up correctly and a guy can't control it. YOU try to turn it around and make me look evil, but from your "vette" stroies, sounds like you are 100x times more dangerous than anyone I know.
> 
> Here are the Facts: NO ONE last season died by someone "racing" around twisties and hitting another inocent snowmobile (as you make yourself out to be) on a blind corner. Some were booze related or someone doing something stupid like zinging thru a parking lot. There are quite a few where they misjudged a cornere and went off trail. They didn't hurt anyone but themself. And if booze wasn't involved, chances are his sled wasn't "set-up" to be controlable, as way my #1 suggestion to Tracker.
> 
> Take a Look: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/Dec1603_80602_7.pdf
> 
> To come on here and tell people not to "race" on the trails, but then tell everyone how you do 113 on an old Poo, do 154 in a vette and ungodly speeds on a CBR but says its OK because you were on a "wide open straightaways with good visibility all around", that makes you look like a *Hypocrite*. Don't try to come on here and paint me as a crazy sled rider and make it out like I promote "racing" thru the trails. We are all here to have fun, and if that screwing around with some buds on the trails, thats fine as long as you do it safely. From the sounds of it, your the LAST person that should be giving advice on it, Mr. 154+. Next time keep your mouth shut and stick to the question at topic.
> 
> Sure I drive a little on the fast side of life. Difference is I don't do it and tell other not to.


Evil? Painting? Inaccuracies at best. 

FYI, my mouth is closed while I type, unless I am snacking or having a belt of water.

All of the above speed runs I mentioned were one time deals. I wanted to see what my machines would do and chose the best circumstances I could. "It's a fact of life", as you so eloquently put it. I guess you can make speed runs but I can't? Duly noted. 

Anyway, the roads around here are pretty desolate. Heavy traffic areas are not where I or anyone should do speed runs. And the statistics prove that I didn't kill anyone either, since you brought that out.

It's pretty amusing how some folks (those of your ilk) get so worked up and are such bellicose badasses on the keyboard. Very impressive.

tracker14,
Again I apologize for my part in this train wreck.


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## D.C.U.P.

tracker14,

Do you stick to trails or do you get off into the deep stuff too? I ask because I have seen a marked difference in traction with tracks that have bigger lugs. That traction is actually improved both on trail and in the powder. Heck, I even saw a guy pull up his skis on an icy road one time with his paddle-tracked Ski-Doo. Surprised the heck out of me, but his may have been a long track too. As I recall, he said he wasn't studded.

I rode a deep-lug Arctic Cat two years ago and it was awesome in the deep snow and on the trails. Great traction.

I guess what I am saying is if/when you are in need of a new track, one with bigger lugs may be something to look into to get your power to the ground. All the torque in the world won't help when you spin yourself into a big hole!


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## SalmonBum

D.C.U.P. said:


> All of the above speed runs I mentioned were *one time deals.* I wanted to see what my machines would do and chose the best circumstances I could. "It's a fact of life", as you so eloquently put it. I guess you can make speed runs but I can't? Duly noted.


One time deals... Ahhh, so it OK if I wanna go fast, ONE time..... That makes it OK as long as the roads are desolate. Wonder what a vette would look like after it hit a deer doing 154?? I wonder what you and an passenger may look like? I wonder about that ONE car that might just pull outta the driveway you didn't plan for. Do what you will in a car on PUBLIC ROADS, but god forbid I go fast on a public trail!!!! Talk about a double standard .

Again, I'm not the _FAST_ one here doing stupid stuff on a CBR and in a Vette, then coming back badmouthing others because they just wanna have a little SAFE fun in the twisties. Don't come one here and tell others to keep the racing off the trails while you the tought about all your hi-speed adventures.


Keep pushing buttons. I'll be here waiting to make you look like even more of a hipocrite.


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## tracker14

D.C.U.P. said:


> tracker14,
> 
> Do you stick to trails or do you get off into the deep stuff too? I ask because I have seen a marked difference in traction with tracks that have bigger lugs. That traction is actually improved both on trail and in the powder. Heck, I even saw a guy pull up his skis on an icy road one time with his paddle-tracked Ski-Doo. Surprised the heck out of me, but his may have been a long track too. As I recall, he said he wasn't studded.
> 
> I rode a deep-lug Arctic Cat two years ago and it was awesome in the deep snow and on the trails. Great traction.
> 
> I guess what I am saying is if/when you are in need of a new track, one with bigger lugs may be something to look into to get your power to the ground. All the torque in the world won't help when you spin yourself into a big hole!


 I'll hit the trail a few times this year but. I feel that I'll be riding fields busting drifts and backroading more. Its hard to get everyone up to the trail.


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## D.C.U.P.

SalmonBum said:


> One time deals... Ahhh, so it OK if I wanna go fast, ONE time..... That makes it OK as long as the roads are desolate. Wonder what a vette would look like after it hit a deer doing 154?? I wonder what you and an passenger may look like? I wonder about that ONE car that might just pull outta the driveway you didn't plan for. Do what you will in a car on PUBLIC ROADS, but god forbid I go fast on a public trail!!!! Talk about a double standard .


Heck yeah. If you want to run your machines in an area with nobody around, go for it. I'd even run with ya, even if you toasted me! 

Apparently you don't know this area very well. There is little traffic anywhere, many roads with no driveways and not many deer, either. In winter there are large lakes (ever hear of Lake Superior?) with nobody around that you can't see miles away. I should also mention there is an old airstrip nearby that is a weekend gathering for speed runs. The only others that may use it is the occasional lost blueberry picker - as for deer, there are very few nearby. It is a public locale, but it's desolate and you can see anyone coming for a long ways. This airstrip is conducive to speed runs. Maybe I didn't mention any of the above, asuuming you'd realize I don't go hella fast in traffic, endangering others. Never have, never will. But when it was safe (judged by me those few times), I did it. BTW, ever see a Hayabusa run? Pretty wild! :tdo12: And don't try to assert that I am now attempting to cover my tracks. I only felt the need to clarify some things in this post because you're getting so carried away insinuating that I am ripping along public roads with traffic around me. This was never the case and if my posts implied that, then it is my fault for not being clear. But it seems to be more a matter of your imagination.



SalmonBum said:


> Again, I'm not the _FAST_ one here doing stupid stuff on a CBR and in a Vette, then coming back badmouthing others because they just wanna have a little SAFE fun in the twisties. Don't come one here and tell others to keep the racing off the trails while you the tought about all your hi-speed adventures.


I never did "badmouth" you. That seems to be your focus. I am sure that you are a good rider and can handle your machines at the speeds you choose, as can I. How is what I did "stupid" and what you did "SAFE" as you put it? How would you even know?? If you're not "the fast one" then why did you post above that people have been telling you to slow down all your life?  My whole point, and I stick by it, was to keep the racing off the trails and go somewhere that nobody else is. That goes for me, too, should I choose to hit the throttle hard. That's easy to do up here, but maybe not where you go. I couldn't know. BTW, what does "you the tought" mean above?



SalmonBum said:


> Keep pushing buttons. I'll be here waiting to make you look like even more of a hipocrite.


If you want to call me a hypocrite, spell it the right way. Anyway, I guess that's in the eye of the reader, if anyone besides us is even reading this crap. :lol: You just keep on typing and make yourself look like an immature, uneducated, egocentric hothead who can't seem to get the intended meaning out of what has been posted. Again, there is a time and place to go fast, but it's not in traffic, or on trails which often have many blind corners (based on my knowledge of the trails in this area). That's the long and short of it. I find myself avoiding many of these trails, especially on weekends when all the wannabe racers are out. It's damned scary out there sometimes.

EDIT: Upon reading through again, I should clarify that I don't actually own that CBR 600, even though it is in the garage, if that matters. It's that of my buddy who lets me swap bikes with him when we ride and says I can use it whenever I want. He's actually the one who told me to do a fast run on it, in spite of my trepidation! I actually own a couple of 250's. Geez, I need to man up to fit my speed demon persona as it has been exposed here! I don't have the Corvettes anymore either. Grad school costs and the novelty wearing off ended that. And my sled is now a 500. I guess I am a sloth in my old age. Those times when I felt the need for speed were in my younger days. And again, they were all one-time deals just to see what it was like - no regrets but don't need to do it again, either.


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## D.C.U.P.

tracker14 said:


> I'll hit the trail a few times this year but. I feel that I'll be riding fields busting drifts and backroading more. Its hard to get everyone up to the trail.


Where do you ride if I may ask? SLP, NLP, UP? Obvioulsy there is climate (snow depth) variability which would dictate what sort of setup you may want to have. My riding conditions up here may be quite a bit different than yours wherever you go. 

If I ever get a new machine, it will have bigger lugs and a longer track than the 121" that has been standard for a long time. I used to "need" studs when I rode a lot and was on icy roads quite a bit. Nowadays, I find myself enjoying busting powder more and wanting to get stuck less. That Cat I rode with the longer lugs was kind of like 4x4 vs. 4x2. It was great. I rode in some powder that I thought would have me buried but it kept going.

But even on groomed trails those longer tracks and bigger lugs help keep the rear from getting loose. You just need to make sure you have the right amount of carbide up front. I'm not advising going and buying a pricey new deep-lug track, but if yours needs replacing, it's worth a look IMO.

Again I apologize for the other crap here. I guess I can't let it go either. :help: I just hope we don't get your thread locked down.


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## tracker14

D.C.U.P. said:


> Where do you ride if I may ask? SLP, NLP, UP? Obvioulsy there is climate (snow depth) variability which would dictate what sort of setup you may want to have. My riding conditions up here may be quite a bit different than yours wherever you go.
> 
> If I ever get a new machine, it will have bigger lugs and a longer track than the 121" that has been standard for a long time. I used to "need" studs when I rode a lot and was on icy roads quite a bit. Nowadays, I find myself enjoying busting powder more and wanting to get stuck less. That Cat I rode with the longer lugs was kind of like 4x4 vs. 4x2. It was great. I rode in some powder that I thought would have me buried but it kept going.
> 
> But even on groomed trails those longer tracks and bigger lugs help keep the rear from getting loose. You just need to make sure you have the right amount of carbide up front. I'm not advising going and buying a pricey new deep-lug track, but if yours needs replacing, it's worth a look IMO.
> 
> Again I apologize for the other crap here. I guess I can't let it go either. :help: I just hope we don't get your thread locked down.


 The track is in fairly new condition. But not studded yet. I have brand new woody's carbide on the front. I plan to get some studs in before the first trail ride of the year. I do like the paddle tracks but I don't have 500+ dollars lying around to put one on. Otherwize I would. We go to St. Helens normally. Average ride is on nice groomed trails.
I'm tired of reading about whats safe and whats not. I've read some posts that don't even say anything about modifing my sled. So if thats how its gonna be. You guys can finish this up I'm done checking this forum unless there's a way to stop the fighting. If anyone has useful information feel free to PM me. I apologize if I come across as a jerk. But I started this to learn more about my sled.


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## SalmonBum

D.C.U.P. said:


> If you want to call me a hypocrite, spell it the right way. Anyway, I guess that's in the eye of the reader, if anyone besides us is even reading this crap. :lol: You just keep on typing and make yourself look like an immature, uneducated, egocentric hothead who can't seem to get the intended meaning out of what has been posted. Again, there is a time and place to go fast, but it's not in traffic, or on trails which often have many blind corners (based on my knowledge of the trails in this area). That's the long and short of it. I find myself avoiding many of these trails, especially on weekends when all the wannabe racers are out. It's damned scary out there sometimes.



Hothead? Well, yes I am. You don't know anything about me, or how I ride. One simple post on runnin' thru the twisties is turned into The killin' of donwstate man as he races thru trails. I will stand my ground on stuff I believe. It wouldn't have been a big deal if you've been some Grandpa riding sledder all your life, then your attacks would have merit. Best thing for you to have done was ASK how I ride, Not JUDGE! But then for it to come out your a speed junky, that makes you a hypocrite (there u happy English Major?). You can can try to cover your tracks all you want, but it just keeps digging the hole deeper on how it OK for you to do it because you know the area and there no deer up there. Guess what, I do know the North very well, You must not ride as much as I do (over 4000 miles a yr) but I hate to tell ya, there are Deer up in the UP. And they show up everywhere. 

Short of it, for no reason but a simple "twistie" post, you tried to turn me into a dragracing snowmobiler putting everyone in danger. I no way is that the case. I ride with the upmost care on the trail, not only for others, but the enviroment around. Next time I decide to ride fast thru the turns, I'll bring it up to Da UP where the area is desolate and where all the deer have died. If its OK for you to do, Must be OK for me, RIGHT?? Don't worry, I'll only do it mid week.


BTW.... Myself and all my buddies ride Long tracks. 136 and 144" in MI. Once you go long, you'll never go back. As for being a Speed Junkey, we all also ride 600, except for or crazy Arctic Choke riding buddy. He still needs am 800. As for studs, Face it We are in MI. You need them. Not alot, but for SAFTEY. Breaking powder is fun, but you normally need trails to get to the fluff. You must also choose a carbide that matches your studs. I run 96 on my 136" and only 6" carbides. If I was to run longer cabides with that many studs, your rear end will not be matched. You must match the two. Lug height is a two way street. Most have only 1.25" because it's MI and sometimes you just hafta stay on the trail. 1.5" is the longest you can go without tearing up the trail. Also, if you go larger than that, you may cause your sled to over heat while on the trail. Longer longs don't dig in as much as you think (different stiffness), but rather ride on top. That doesn't kick snow up in the tunnel. No cooling, bye bye motor.

My Mod sled I ride in Colorado is a 163" with 2.5" paddle. Now that is a trench digger.


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## dumredneck

I would reccomend studs. 1 time of trying to stop on an icy road or intersection and you will wish you had them. 96 down the center of the track is all you need on a 600. Should be less than $150 for studs/nuts/backers/track drill. A worthwhile investent I think.


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## SalmonBum

Tracker, Do you know how tall of lugs are on your track? I have a box of about 80+ studs outta an old track that are in OK condition. Wait, I have even more that that. My buddys track I just replaced should have some good ones in it. You want 'em?


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## D.C.U.P.

tracker14 said:


> The track is in fairly new condition. But not studded yet. I have brand new woody's carbide on the front. I plan to get some studs in before the first trail ride of the year. I do like the paddle tracks but I don't have 500+ dollars lying around to put one on. Otherwize I would. We go to St. Helens normally. Average ride is on nice groomed trails.
> I'm tired of reading about whats safe and whats not. I've read some posts that don't even say anything about modifing my sled. So if thats how its gonna be. You guys can finish this up I'm done checking this forum unless there's a way to stop the fighting. If anyone has useful information feel free to PM me. I apologize if I come across as a jerk. But I started this to learn more about my sled.


You have a PM.


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## tracker14

SalmonBum said:


> Tracker, Do you know how tall of lugs are on your track? I have a box of about 80+ studs outta an old track that are in OK condition. Wait, I have even more that that. My buddys track I just replaced should have some good ones in it. You want 'em?


I have about 1" lugs. I spoke with a cousin tonight and he said that he has a couple bags he's not going to use. He asked if I wanted them so I think I'm all set. Thank you for the offer thats very kind of you.


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## tracker14

Well guys I have the sled running pretty good. I pulled the gear which was a 20-39 and put in a 19t. Installed 96 woody 60 degree 1" gold diggers with aluminum backers. New intake boots and cleaned the throttle bodys and air box out. Got a d&d power pipe coming soon and a d&d efi chip. Also put a snow stuff rumble pack on. I know it hurts the hp but it sounds great in my opinion. Thanks for all the help. Your advice was very helpful. I'm planning on a clutch kit later in the year. I think that will help put the pipe power to the track. Thanks again, Jeff I'll post some pics when its all done.


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## grouly925

Depending on if you bought the pipe new or used, it will have a recommended RPM range for maximum performance. You will just have to dial in your secondary to match this maximum RPM and you should be all set. You can adjust the peak RPM by at least a few hundred just by moving your secondary spring from one notch to another. In the picture below, you see on the very front face of the clutch where there are 5 holes. You can adjust the spring into a different hole (tighter=more rpm) to increase. It still might not get you where you need to be, but for the time being it would be free. I have a rumble pack on my F7 and I had one before on my ZR600. I agree with you that I love the sound, and it actually makes it easier to determine if your sled is running correctly (ie dropping a plug or bogging out).


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## CHASINEYES

I,m not going to read through all the post, so I dont know if this site was mentioned or not. If the OP wants some good advice/setups check this site out. hardcoresledders.com By the way my wife has a 99 zr600 efi and I did some clutch work on it. If your still looking for setups, I can look at her clutching(cant remember without looking) and tell you what worked for me.


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