# Northern Wild Turkey Population



## Gillslayer (Jan 16, 2003)

Yesterday their was an article in the Traverse City paper about the population of wild turkeys in northern lower michigan.
It does not look good for the upcoming year.
According to estimates, turkeys are way down, and if this weather keeps up for much longer, it could really decimate them.
The NWTF is doing their best to feed the flocks that they know of, but with this much snow, they just can't get to the food in some cases.
I guess we can hope for a warm spring, but regardless, it looks to be a year of tough hunting in northern lower.


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## kingfisher 11 (Jan 26, 2000)

I spend about 50% of my week driving and working in the northern counties. I saw this coming, I was not seeing the birds. I did take a real nice tom the last two years in Antirm county. This fall I was not seeing nearly the birds I use to. Not even around my folks place.

First year to get a tag for Southern MI. Sounds like it was the right move.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Based upon what was said in another thread, it is the Michigan not National Wild Turkey people that are feeding the turkeys. Maybe not a big deal to you or me as long as someone is doing it, but I think it is to the Michigan turkey group. 
L & O


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## Tony H. (Feb 6, 2003)

L&O,

You are correct. Most of the feeding in the region is being done by the MWTHA. A few NWTF chapters are chipping in a bit. But the NWTF does not believe in feeding programs. They would rather invest in sustainable programs that keep the birds wild -- such as habitat improvement.

And while there is some concern over loss, I'm not sure the picture is as bleak as described in the story. I talked with Bill Mastenbrook of the DNR's office in southeast Northern Michigan and he has been up in the air observing turkeys and said some are using feeders. But many are utilizing the hardwood ridges where there was an abundant acorn crop. He did not think winter losses would be heavy at all. The real loss could occur if more snow comes, the feeders aren't refilled and those birds that have been trained to eat shelled corn don't know how to get on those ridges and look for natural forage.

I also talked with Larry Visser who is in the DNR's Cadillac office. He said the mild Dec. and much of Jan. has the birds in great shape. The snow is light and fluffy at this point and the birds are able to forage quite well. Again, feeding is not encouraged by the DNR. Yes, the numbers may dip some but you may find the flock is better able to sustain winter conditions without a feeding program.

Fewer birds isn't a desirable outcome I understand. But that's nature.
Let's hope for a few days of sun and maybe an early thaw. If that happens, both agreed, losses will be negligible.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

His name is Brian Mastenbrooke, not Bill, and he's flying the east end of the Pigeon River doing the elk survey, I'll have a full story on everything they're doing in the next issue of that newspaper Boehr thinks I'm advertising when I mention the name of it...in Montmorency County, where 99% of the elk are located this winter, there's a whole lot less snow there than in other regions of the north...and the birds are still able to work the ridges for acorns and beechnuts. That's not the case throughout the north.

Here's the article that was mentioned, it was in yesterday's Traverse City Record Eagle, Larry Visser works for Penny Melchior, who I interviewed for the story, and Matthews is Mastenbrooke's boss...

TURKEY NUMBERS DOWN IN NORTHERN MICHIGAN
By Linda Gallagher

CADILLAC-At the same time that preliminary results of the annual wild turkey count in northern Michigan indicate that populations of the big game bird have declined substantially in recent years, concern is mounting that what birds remain may be unable
to withstand the current difficult winter conditions.

Penny Melchior, the MI DNRs NW Unit Supervisor, said that final estimates of the annual wild turkey count, done by members of the Michigan Wild Turkey Hunters Association and local chapters of the National Wild Turkey Federation in cooperation
with the DNR, show that numbers of wild turkeys in northwestern lower Michigan have declined a minimum of 11% over last year, which was also lower than previous years. 

Weve got a count right now of approximately 16,000 wild turkeys in our 13 county area, which includes Grand Traverse, Leelanau, Benzie and Manistee Counties, said the
biologist from her Cadillac office. That number of 11% is an overall number for the entire area. Hunters in our more southern counties, like Oceana, Newaygo and Mecosta, where both spring conditions last year and winter conditions so far this winter have been much milder than more northern counties, will probably find that numbers of wild turkeys are only down about 5% in those areas, while hunters this spring in Kalkaska, Grand Traverse, Leelanau, Benzie, Wexford, and Manistee Counties may find that percentage of decline is as much as 15% or more.

Melchior attributed the lower numbers of wild turkeys to several years in a row of poor spring weather, which resulted in poor hatches, and a high number of predators. The weather this winter isnt helping to improve our outlook right now, either, she said. Although we dont have as much snow on the ground as counties like Antrim and Charlevoix do, theres almost two feet on the ground right outside my office window here, and over in the Lake City area, where I live, the wind has caused a lot of drifting
which is very difficult, if not impossible, for wild turkeys to get through.

Ground feeders by nature, wild turkeys are unable right now in most areas to dig through to the ground due to the deep snows, said Melchior. Groups that conduct feeding programs, like the MWTHA and some chapters of the NWTF, feed the birds to help
them survive the winter. But if the birds are unable to get to those feeders because of the snow depths and drifting, or if the volunteers from these groups are unable to find the birds to take the feeders to them, wild turkeys wont survive if harsh weather
conditions continue for more than a few weeks.

Winter severity indexes, a scientific method of determining the negative effects of winter weather on wildlife, were climbing daily, Melchior added. The last numbers Ive got are from last week, when we had a WSI of 42.5 at Kalkaska and 32 at our Platte River
office. Im sure its gone up substantially since then in those areas, and since the WSI is a gauge of how the weather is affecting deer, which are much larger animals as well as 
natives of northern Michigan, you can be sure its much worse for turkeys.

Glen Matthews, the DNRs NW Unit Supervisor, said that the winter severity index at his office in Gaylord, taken Monday, was at 50. Two thirds of our point accumulation has been in the last four weeks, which is a substantial jump when you consider that the first week of January the WSI was only at 16.

With snow depths up to three feet or more in most of Antrim, Charlevoix, Otsego and Emmet Counties, Matthews was also not optimistic on the subject of wild turkey survival this winter. If theyre being fed an adequate, nutritious food, like the shelled corn the MWTHA distributes in this area, their chances of making it through the winter are much better. If theyre not being fed, and are just out there in the woods somewhere, Id say theyre in
real trouble if we dont get a break in the weather very soon. We may already have lost some birds, especially younger poults and hens. The wild turkey is not adapted for hard winter survival, and can only put up with so much.

Again, due to what is assumed to be poor spring weather and predators, numbers of wild turkeys in Matthews unit have also declined in recent years, substantially in some areas. In Area J, which comprises Antrim, Emmet, Charlevoix, Cheboygan and Otsego Counties, we have a preliminary count figure of 6, 672 birds right now. Thats down from our high numbers for that region of 14,000+ birds as recently as 1999.

Both biologists said they are hoping for a temporary break in the weather. A few days of warmer temperatures and sun would sure make a difference, said Melchior. Added Matthews, So would an early, warm spring.


These are direct quotes...


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## Tony H. (Feb 6, 2003)

Yes, Brian not Bill. Was taking a message to my boss -- named Bill -- and typed the wrong thing in. Sorry. Certainly Linda has never made an error in her stellar, award-winning reports. I know better. We all have done it from time to time.

And if you talked to my boss, he would of course know more about the work that I'm actually doing than I would right? Or is that not the logic Linda infers with her "I talked to so and so who is their boss blah, blah, blah. . ." And of course Brian while in the air looking for elk couldn't possibly have allowed his eyes to focus on any other wildlife in the area. So, of course, he couldn't have seen any turkeys. He was only looking for elk. I understand now.

Sorry to seem negative but it gets old. I was simply trying to offer the views of two DNR folks who are actually working in the area and they didn't seem too concerned. Those aren't my words. They are theirs. But then again I went into the subject without a preconceived notion of what the conditions are like and without an open and irrational distrust of the DNR. That's just responsible reporting. 

If you don't agree with what they said, you don't agree with what they said. But this whole "I am the northern turkey goddess" is laughable garbage.

The fact remains. Linda's story says the turkeys are doomed. Guys I talked with for my piece said things are not so dire. Believe whomever. Makes really no difference to me.

I personally can't wait for the "full story." But what I'm wondering more and more is what exactly is it full of?


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

That's right, Tony. Believe whomever, and I never wrote nor infer that turkeys up here are doomed. The numbers are down, substantially, in a number of counties in northern MI, and anyone who's spent any amount of time up here knows it. Except for the actual numbers, this wasn't a big shock to anyone in the areas I mentioned...and yes, it's getting old...come on up some time, and I'll show you what I mean. So will Kingfisher, or anyone else who knows the north country. 

All I can say for one employee of the DNR contradicting another is that maybe they should communicate a little more with one another-that would be something new, wouldn't it? 

I'll get in touch with Brian and ask him exactly where he saw those birds from the air. I hope it was Montmorency County, but it could have been Presque Isle or Cheboygan, too. All counties I didn't mention in my article because they don't have the snow depths we have over here. I know a couple of guys that have been hunting in the Hillman/Atlanta area for several years, who are having trouble finding birds over there, too.


btw-are you a writer or reporter? You mention "my piece"...just curious-I thought last night you said you owned a shop that you built turkey feeders in.


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## Swamp Ghost (Feb 5, 2003)

No need to get petty, the names are irrelevant, the story is the story, is the story.

It seems the biologists agree that poor spring weather and an increase in predators the past few seasons has more to do with the decline than winter-kill, this winter is no exception. If the birds can't get to the feeder due to heavy snow then all is for not. I can't help but think that long term habitat projects are the way to go. Another interesting point, "The wild turkey is not adapted for hard winter survival, and can only put up with so much.


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## Tony H. (Feb 6, 2003)

Wish I could help with the county. He didn't mention it. I asked him a broader question about general wildlife conditions in the region (northeast lower) at this stage of the winter. He did mention they were feeding on acorns NOT beechnuts so maybe that gives you a little better geographic description.

He did, by the way, add that without the feeders the turkey numbers would drop. "They are a bit beyond their natural range." 

Maybe I will stop off sometime. On my way through to my house in the western end of the U.P. where they would probably laugh at our notion of deep snow LOL!


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## kingfisher 11 (Jan 26, 2000)

I don't care what reports I read. I drive over 50,000 miles a year, closer to 70,000 some years. I can tell you some of the NW counties have had a big drop in bird numbers. 

I am seeing a lot more birds in the Southern counties. If a person is talking statewide, maybe your area is up. Not the NW though.

What surprises me is there has been a decrease for a couple of years now.

I can remember driving around Mancelona, Bellaire and Central Lake and the turkeys were every where. They were so common that you got tired of watching the road for them.

Sounds like we are going the way of the deer counts. Just becuase a guy has 50 deer in his back yard he wonders why every one is complaining about deer numbers being down. when 100 miles away you are lucky to see 10 deer all season.

Linda you are correct, and no the sky is not falling down. Its nice to see someone who is concerned about the problem before it is epidemic.

At least the turkeys are hunted by unit. The DNR can contol the hunting pressure by unit.


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## Sturgeon-man (Mar 31, 2002)

I only hope my turkey tag doesn't end up in the trash can like my doe tags did for "lack of" I've fed turkeys for the last 6-7 winters...... no birds this year.


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## Tony H. (Feb 6, 2003)

Sturgoen, Kingfisher,

You guys would definitely know better than I about the bird numbers in your area. I'm nt disputing that their down and I wish someone could really put a finger on the cause. Is it predation? Bad springs? Bad winters? Probably a combination of things I suppose. But I think it will rebound. I have no reasons for that belief, it's just a gut feeling. Maybe wishful thinking.

Also Sturgeon you really don't need to worry about harming the population by taking a spring gobbler. That has very, very, very, very little impact on the overall population. Killing hens in the fall is how numbers are controlled. So hunt and enjoy it. Hearing a few gobbles is better than none I'd say. . . But your concern for the future of the population is something to be admired.


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## kingfisher 11 (Jan 26, 2000)

Tony

I think you are right, it most likely is a combination of things. I you forgot to add one that I would put in there....poaching. I grew up in that area and I can tell you there are some real bad problems with the locals. From what my dad tells me things have not changed much.

I think my fraustrations come from comments I here about the deer herd. I just don't want to see the turkey numbers determined by state numbers instead of local units. If you hunt the western states like I do, they break into units and micro manage more. I personally see the quality of mammals in those states.

I have thought our birds have been managed well in the past. I just don't want it to spiral out of control.


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## Tony H. (Feb 6, 2003)

Kingfisher, you're right managing on a unit by unit basis is the best route I think .Same should go for deer. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the habitats/climates are very different in each region and the regs should work accordingly.

The western states certainly do it differently. I lived in Idaho for a bit and they have different regs for each unit and some units are even "trophy areas" with permits allotted only by lottery for each species. They love it. and they have the game and hunt qaulity that I envy.


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## jdt (Jun 30, 2002)

doesn`t feeding turkeys create a larger population then what can be sustained !and they become dependent on handouts,and when for any number of reasons their supply gets cut off they die off in larger numbers?if there are a lot of winterkills maybe we should have a larger fall harvest.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

Their supply of winter food hasn't been cut off, something else is causing the decline in wild turkey numbers. 

As for your last comment, you don't hunt the females of any species when you have a declining population, unless of course you're in Michigan and you're talking about whitetail deer, and you have a Farm Bureau and USDA that wants the deer population eradicated.


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## No-See-Um (Feb 25, 2003)

A few years back I fed 60 turkeys all winter long. It's a big job that I hope I never have to repeat. The birds roosted every night about 300 feet from the house and were charging down the hill for their breakfast way before sunup. I only fed them 1/4 pound of corn each per day as recommended but they begged and pleaded for more like a kid that only got one jelly bean in his basket. They pecked at the windows, slimed my deck, and chased the dog around thinking he might feed them. It was like babysitting. I couldn't go away for a day without finding some other person willing to get up before dawn to fill in. Their reliance on corn, however, was not a problem. Just as soon as they could get to the ground to scratch they would vanish. If the snows came back......so did the birds. They do have a memory for sure. I just thought I'd share the experience with some of the readers who don't have turkeys on their property.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

Noseeum-which is what I hope isn't the case with the wild turkeys in your area this year...did anyone tell you about our barrel feeders? We set them up on platforms above the ground that take about 10 minutes to build from scrap lumber, the barrels hold 350-400 pounds of corn, when you use the barrels you don't have to go through what you did. The turkeys feed themselves. You can put the barrels out away from your house, and that will keep the birds away from your deck and windows.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

No-See-Um,
Good info. I don't hunt northern birds, but I am sure glad that there are people like you and Linda that help the turkeys through rough winters.
L & O


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## Jimbos (Nov 21, 2000)

Can turkeys catch West Nile virus from mosquitos?

If this has been asked before please forgive my ignorance. I just thought of it after reading Linda's last post.


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