# Newbie to Muzzleloading Suggestions Appreciated



## Titan34 (Dec 7, 2009)

Any information would be greatly appreciated.
I just purchased a new CVA Accura V2 muzzleloader. I topped it with durasights and a Nikon Monarch ucc 3-9 with BDC. The scope was on sale for 199. I purchased 777 50/50 pellets. Bought a cva starter package and an extra set of TC shockwave Easy Glide 250 grain sabots. The barnes were sold out! Oh yeah and remington cleanbore 209 primers. 

I havent opened any of the packages (powder, bullets, starter, primers). Is there anything about any of these products I should know before proceding to the range. 

should I buy anything else. 

Are any of those products crappy?

I understand how great blackhorn powder is. i might give that a try also.

Any suggestions would help a newbie!!!!:lol:


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## Ricecreek (Aug 2, 2010)

Sounds like a great setup. I have TC Encore with same scope. Try some loads of 100 gr. and then 150 gr. and 100 yds to see what one shots better in your gun. Pratice Pratice!Good Luck.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

Titan34 said:


> Any information would be greatly appreciated.
> I just purchased a new CVA Accura V2 muzzleloader. I topped it with durasights and a Nikon Monarch ucc 3-9 with BDC. The scope was on sale for 199. I purchased 777 50/50 pellets. Bought a cva starter package and an extra set of TC shockwave Easy Glide 250 grain sabots. The barnes were sold out! Oh yeah and remington cleanbore 209 primers.
> 
> I havent opened any of the packages (powder, bullets, starter, primers). Is there anything about any of these products I should know before proceding to the range.
> ...


*WELCOME to the world of muzzleloading ! *

You've got a very good start on things. One thing you may have left out or forgot about, is the loading jag for Barnes or Shockwave bullets. Inexpensive but necessary.

IMO, take the 777 and Remington primers back and buy the BH209 and CCI209M primers. You're going to switch to it anyway and why not start out with the best?  Don't forget a good volume measure for the loose powder and a couple speed loaders.


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## SHOOTN4FUN (Sep 1, 2006)

Encore any suggestions for good powder measure?


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## Titan34 (Dec 7, 2009)

Thanks encore. Gander Mnt didnt have the cci primers. I could order them but they only come in a 1000 count from cabelas i think. I did see that they had a TC clear measuring device. Would that work. I know volume and weight are different when measuring. What volume should I start with? I also read that the blackhorn powder likes a tight fitting bullet. Should I take back the easy glide shockwaves. I have a bunch of powerbelts in the starter kit but read they are not good to hunt with. 

Thanks Again!!


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## Steve B. (Nov 22, 2004)

I would take the Powerbelts out of the package and throw them in the trash!

A bullet I feel has better performance than the Hornady's are Barnes. Look at the Barnes 250-grain Expander MZ's or the 285-grain Spit-Fire MZ's.

Don't think you need to max out your muzzle loader with powder to get it to perform either, I only run 120-grains through mine and it performs very well. I used to run only 100-grains before I switched bullets weights.


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## BallsRdragn (Jul 21, 2005)

I have the CVA optima pro.

I found the 777 primer,777 Pellets(100gr,2pellets) & TC 250gr shockwave is the ticket for me.

I tried 150gr of powder but couldnt keep a good group. 100gr was best.

Ben


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## Sam22 (Jan 22, 2003)

Shoot it! try different ranges. I am excited to have a range finder this year, it should help.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

SHOOTN4FUN said:


> Encore any suggestions for good powder measure?


Good luck.

IMO, its hard to find one that is consistently accurate. But then again, I might be a little "over board" on accurate. Of the last three that I bought, only one of them was close. It just happened to be a T/C.

Regular shotgun primers (209) will work. I've shot many of them with BH209 and never had a problem. I just prefer the magnum 209 primers. *With BH209, don't use the muzzleloader primers* that the different manufactuers make. You need a full strength primer (in most cases) to INSURE consistent ignition.

WARNING: 120grains by volume is the MAXIMUM charge you should use, when using BH209.

Like one of the other posters recommended, throw out the powerbelt bullets.......... The ez glide bullets could shoot well out of your rifle. My personal favorite is the Barnes TMZ in 250gr or 290gr. I've shot many of the Expanders for shorter ranges and from personal expierence, they can knock a deer right off its feet! I just prefer the TMZ for longer ranges. Check out my photos for a couple of recovered expander bullets pictured there......


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## jjc155 (Oct 16, 2005)

SHOOTN4FUN said:


> Encore any suggestions for good powder measure?


I use the T/C Uview powder measure ( http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=3776 ).

Works great for BH209. Its accurate enough and repeatable of enough of a measure for me it to help me shoot just over 1 inch groups with BH209 in my Triumph.

I agree with Encore, ditch the 777 pellets and jump straight to what you are ultimately gonna end up with if you are accuracy "anal" and that is BH209 and the CCI209M's. I shoot pellets the first couple of years I got into muzzleloading as they are convienent but you will soon figure out that you can do better with loose powder and much better and cleaner with BH.

I shoot a 250gr Hornady SST in a Harvester Short sabot over 110grs of BH209 with the CCI 290M and it is awesome.

J-


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

Titan34 said:


> .....Any suggestions would help a newbie!!!!:lol:


How's the post work'n for ya? 

Now, once you start shoot'n that rifle, make sure you get back and let us know how you're do'n.........


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## Titan34 (Dec 7, 2009)

Great Info guys. I appreciate the help. ENCORE after looking at your pics it looks like the shockwaves may not be my best bet based on their expansion( Lack there of or fragments). One more question the New CVA accura v2 that I purchased from gander mnt looks as though it may have been shot. My buddy bought a new camo one the same day. My breech plug had grease on the treads and feels grainy the last 4 or five twists. My friends had no lube on the threads and twisted in without that grainy feeling. Also I have no idea where to find different primers for the blackhorn powder. Gander doesnt have any cci and I would love to play with my new gun at the range this saturday.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

Titan34 said:


> Great Info guys. I appreciate the help. ENCORE after looking at your pics it looks like the shockwaves may not be my best bet based on their expansion( Lack there of or fragments). One more question the New CVA accura v2 that I purchased from gander mnt looks as though it may have been shot. My buddy bought a new camo one the same day. My breech plug had grease on the treads and feels grainy the last 4 or five twists. My friends had no lube on the threads and twisted in without that grainy feeling. Also I have no idea where to find different primers for the blackhorn powder. Gander doesnt have any cci and I would love to play with my new gun at the range this saturday.


I may be mistaken, as I quit dealing with Gander Mountain, but I don't think that they take returns on firearms, let alone put one back on the shelf. But then again, some of the outlandish stupid things that happen there, who knows.......

The manufacturer should have put the grease on the breech plug in the first place. Clean the threads out on to a white towel and determine what does, if anything, comes out of the breech threads. It may be nothing more than tooling.

Don't get the 209 primers that are dedicated to muzzleloaders.

*HINT: * Next time you go into Gander Mountain, DON'T tell them that you're looking for primers for a muzzleloader. Instead, just look in the reloading section and find the shotgun primers, then pick up a box of Federal 209A or just Federal, Winchester, CCI etc. It'll get you shoot'n


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## Cpt.Chaos (May 28, 2006)

Titan, drive on down to Michi-gun in St. Clair Shores, they will have the shotgun primers there and the Barnes Expander MZ's. I don't know if they stock BH209 though. I shoot loose 777, 100-110 grains with a 300 gr MZ, but I will be switching to bh209 soon.


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## Titan34 (Dec 7, 2009)

Thanks again for the help. I will be testing this bad boy out on saturday. Ill let you know how it goes. I cant wait!!!:evil:


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## Steve B. (Nov 22, 2004)

Besides Mich-i-Gun, check out Bass Pro. I always find things there i don't expect. I got my Barnes from there this year. Not sure on the powder because I have some 777 to use up before I switch to Blackhorn.

Several have mentioned using a magnum primer with the BH209, what about small rifle primers? They are hot primers. Thoughts??


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

Steve B. said:


> Several have mentioned using a magnum primer with the BH209, what about small rifle primers? They are hot primers. Thoughts??


I imagine that somewhere, there's a wildcat'er that may have expierimented with that thought..... then just went back to 209 primers. They work fine.

*Titan34*........... You're last post is what this stuff is all about! It always brings out the "kid" in ME, when I see that someone is excited about shooting his/her muzz. I just hope that I never get to the point that I start to make it technical and forget about the excitement. That to me, would be a sad day....

I just had the guy that shot Sunday call me this morning. When he shot last year, his confidence was just about 40yds. Even though he was shooting fair at 100yds, I could tell that his confidence in his rifle was pretty low. We even talked about it this morning. Since he changed things up and started shooting more, his confidence is to the level of: "I won't miss." Yup, that youngster is starting to get cocky :lol: Even after he shot last year and I put him in a great spot during the muzz seasnon, he let a buck go that was about 75yds, because he wasn't comfortable with the shot. He's waiting for that same opportunity on the 9th this year. :lol:

Good luck .....


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## Steve B. (Nov 22, 2004)

ENCORE said:


> I imagine that somewhere, there's a wildcat'er that may have expierimented with that thought..... then just went back to 209 primers. They work fine.
> 
> *Titan34*........... You're last post is what this stuff is all about! It always brings out the "kid" in ME, when I see that someone is excited about shooting his/her muzz. I just hope that I never get to the point that I start to make it technical and forget about the excitement. That to me, would be a sad day....
> 
> I just had the guy that shot Sunday call me this morning. When he shot last year, his confidence was just about 40yds. Even though he was shooting fair at 100yds, I could tell that his confidence in his rifle was pretty low. We even talked about it this morning. Since he changed things up and started shooting more, his confidence is to the level of: "I won't miss." Yup, that youngster is starting to get cocky :lol: Even after he shot last year and I put him in a great spot during the muzz seasnon, he let a buck go that was about 75yds, because he wasn't comfortable with the shot. He's waiting for that same opportunity on the 9th this year. :lol:


Geez Encore, are you my long lost brotha I never knew existed!!

I couldn't agree more with your post.

Talking about experimenting earlier and looking at the best components to run through your muzzleloader, well, here is where I have gotten to with mine:

T/C Encore .50-cal
120-grains 777 FFG powder
275-grain .460 S&W Barnes XPB (.451-diameter)
2-Petal T/C sabots
.25 ACP Primer conversion running small rifle primers

0.750-inch diameter group at 100 yards

I find the small rifle primers burn the 777 quite thoroughly. I actually can load up to 2 additional loads, close to the same depth as my original, clean barrel load.

I tried running 777 FFFG powder last year at 100-grains and 110-grains and found this combination to be very inconsistent. Went back to FFG at 120-grains from 110-grains and everything fell into place. Last weekend was the third time out shooting it before muzzleloader season, the third time shooting tight, consistent groups.

Gonna try BH209 next year or maybe pick up another muzzleloader and start building a tack driver all over again. Maybe find myself a Remington 700 ML....


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

Steve B. said:


> Geez Encore, are you my long lost brotha I never knew existed!!
> 
> I couldn't agree more with your post.
> 
> ...


If you haven't had the trigger done on your Encore, you should. Once you do, you won't want another rifle.


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## ScrubBuck (Feb 1, 2010)

Whats wrong with the triggers Encore? I have a Pro-Hunter and i think the trigger is just fine..better then a lot of rifles on the market. Also Encore I use winchester primers W209 and i was wondering what your thoughts or experiments are with these primers? Any feedback or thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you!!!


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## ScrubBuck (Feb 1, 2010)

:SHOCKED:Steve B. I don't think I would waste my time with the Remington 700ML.. I would place this muzzleloader right next to the powerbelts........."THE GARBAGE CAN".:yikes:


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Hey now! Yes the pb's are garbage but easy on the 700 MLS! I love my Encore, but my 700 MLS is a wicked piece! Fantastic trigger and the smoothest bore I've seen on a factory rifle of any type. MOA groups with 100 grains of Pyrodex RS seated under a 300 gr XTP in a mag sabot. All this with standard #11 or musket caps. It does take some effort to clean but that does not bother me, it's all part of the process I enjoy. Keep the bolt clean and that gun is a shooter. Many 700 owners back in the day didn't realize they needed to disasemble the bolt and clean it then couldn't figure out why they had problems. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Titan34 (Dec 7, 2009)

After doing some more research i found that my CVA ACurra V2 has a flash channel size that is smaller than TC. CVA= .028 TC= .035. I heard this can be a problem when using Blackhorn Powder. I found some cci 209 primers not the magnums at dunhams. I am going to look for a hotter primer at gander mnt tonight. I was also thinking about buying a # 32 drill bit to keep the channel clear to see if this helps and a 1/8 bit. Also bought some Barnes TMZ 250's. Is it saturday yet!!!!!!

Encore do you think i will be ok with this size flash channel?


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

ScrubBuck said:


> Whats wrong with the triggers Encore? I have a Pro-Hunter and i think the trigger is just fine..better then a lot of rifles on the market. Also Encore I use winchester primers W209 and i was wondering what your thoughts or experiments are with these primers? Any feedback or thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you!!!


There isn't anything WRONG with the triggers However, depending on the SHOOTER, there may be something wrong. No matter how dedicated or how much one prefers the Encore/Pro Hunter, trigger pull can be quite varied in different rifles. Some have been known to be as high as 8#+ and other factory triggers can be 3#. IMO, an 8# trigger pull isn't good. There are some shooters that actually require a heavy trigger pull. One person I know, is an excavator and through the years, has broken his fingers multipal times. He requires the heavy trigger pull just to feel it. I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I prefer a smooth, crisp and light trigger. One with no creep.
As far as the primers, I used just the regular Federal 209 in my Encore and never had a problem. You just want to stay away from the designated muzzleloader primers...




Titan34 said:


> After doing some more research i found that my CVA ACurra V2 has a flash channel size that is smaller than TC. CVA= .028 TC= .035. I heard this can be a problem when using Blackhorn Powder. I found some cci 209 primers not the magnums at dunhams. I am going to look for a hotter primer at gander mnt tonight. I was also thinking about buying a # 32 drill bit to keep the channel clear to see if this helps and a 1/8 bit. Also bought some Barnes TMZ 250's. Is it saturday yet!!!!!!
> 
> Encore do you think i will be ok with this size flash channel?


Shoot it :lol:  However, if you can find the CCI209M or Federal 2009A primers, it could be better. Someone else might know what Winchester has in a magnum 209 primer............. I have to pick up some myself. I'm down to my last 100 primers 

I feel for ya, its only Wednesday..............:lol::lol::lol:


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## Tracker83 (Jun 21, 2005)

jjc155 said:


> I agree with Encore, ditch the 777 pellets and jump straight to what you are ultimately gonna end up...


I kinda disagree with this. I am a huge fan of BH209, but I think a "newbie" can benefit by starting with pellets. There are so many things to learn when starting out with a muzzleloader, and you can dumb it down a little bit by using the pellets. Use if for a season and get used to shooting it, get accustom to your loading procedure, perfect your cleaning procedure, and then graduate to loose powders. JMHO.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

Tracker83 said:


> I kinda disagree with this. I am a huge fan of BH209, but I think a "newbie" can benefit by starting with pellets. There are so many things to learn when starting out with a muzzleloader, and you can dumb it down a little bit by using the pellets. Use if for a season and get used to shooting it, get accustom to your loading procedure, perfect your cleaning procedure, and then graduate to loose powders. JMHO.


_If you don't have money or time to do it right the first time, where you going to get the money or time to have to do it over?_

Way too many people get stuck on "pellets" and then refuse to shoot anything else, thus, not improving their rifle's ability or theirs. Someone or a bunch of someone's are going to jump all over me for this but, using "pellets" is a lazy muzzleloader's way of doing it or, someone that shoots theirs 3 or 4 times and then goes hunting.  They never get to realize the true capability of their rifle.

Nice thing about M-S, we can disagree and the OP can make up his/her mind. However, I do understand your reasoning..............


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## MERGANZER (Aug 24, 2006)

If you have accuracy issues try different bullets to see what the gun likes. My CVA liked the PB bullets but their on game performance was awful so I switched to XTP bullets and they worked well. This year I switched again and found the Hornady SST 250 grain bullets were accurate and put a whooping on the deer (3) this fall. All deer dropped within 30 yds and the wound channel was amazing as was the blood trail. I am using 777 pellets 150 grain. Although I think with 150 grains you are wasting some of the powder as its not burned totally. 120 grains may be the ticket but then you have to buy 30 pellets instead. 

Good luck to you its a great time to be out there.

Ganzer


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## ScrubBuck (Feb 1, 2010)

Thanks Encore on your explanation on the primers. I have heard many times to stay away from the ML primers or "clean burn" whatever primers. I've had good luck with the winchester primers so probably stick with them. I agree about the trigger pull also 8# way to much. Maybe I just got lucky and have one of the low pound ones. Again Thanks for your info.


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## ScrubBuck (Feb 1, 2010)

MERGANZER.. You could try the "red box" 777 magnum pellets. I use these and they seem to work well for me. When you compare them to the standard 777 pellets they are a little longer and you "only use TWO". I would guess it would be equivelent to 125gr or 130gr. When you stack on top of each other 3 standard 50gr. pellets next to the 2 "magnum" (red box) pellets you will see that the 2 "magnum pellets" are a little shorter over all in length. Just an opinion for you to maybe try!!!


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## skipper34 (Oct 13, 2005)

Well, I use 2 50 grain Pyrodex pellets, TC Shockwave 250's, and Remington 209 cleanbore primers. This is with a TC Encore, with the same trigger from the factory. I have taken 7 deer with this set-up during Michigan's muzzleloader season since 2005. I get 1 inch groups at 100 yards. I must be doing it all wrong according to some of the so-called experts here.


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## Titan34 (Dec 7, 2009)

Thanks alot guys! I will have a few different options as far as loads to try on saturday. I will let you guys know how it goes. Still confused why my breach plug feels grainy and doesnt turn in smothly like my friends. going back up to gander to see if they have any more out that I can look at.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

skipper34 said:


> Well, I use 2 50 grain Pyrodex pellets, TC Shockwave 250's, and Remington 209 cleanbore primers. This is with a TC Encore, with the same trigger from the factory. I have taken 7 deer with this set-up during Michigan's muzzleloader season since 2005. I get 1 inch groups at 100 yards. I must be doing it all wrong according to some of the so-called experts here.


Then......... what's wrong with what you're using


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## skipper34 (Oct 13, 2005)

ENCORE said:


> Then......... what's wrong with what you're using


Absolutely nothing. That's my point, spoken with a touch of sarcasm. When I read things like, 'throw the Remington Cleanbore primers away", and "the Encore trigger is bad", and "you should be using this powder or that powder and don't use the pellets", or the one I chuckle at the most, "the TC Shockwave doesn't mushroom" the only thing I can add is, "THE DEER DON'T CARE WHAT LOAD OR PRIMER OR WHAT THE TRIGGER PULL IS OR WHAT THE BALLISTIC COEFFICIENT OF A TC SHOCKWAVE IS". That is because the deer is DEAD! End of discussion. Way too many armchair cybernet experts.


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## langkg (Oct 26, 2004)

ScrubBuck said:


> :SHOCKED:Steve B. I don't think I would waste my time with the Remington 700ML.. I would place this muzzleloader right next to the powerbelts........."THE GARBAGE CAN".:yikes:


What's so wrong with the 700ML? Obviously they don't make it any more and a TON of new inlines have come out since it was in production but I've been hunting with mine for many years and kill a deer or two with it every muzzy season. The balance of the gun sucks with the hollow composite stock but other than that it gets the job done. I most certainly agree with your position on the Powerbelts however....!!!!


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

skipper34 said:


> Absolutely nothing. That's my point, spoken with a touch of sarcasm. When I read things like, 'throw the Remington Cleanbore primers away", and "the Encore trigger is bad", and "you should be using this powder or that powder and don't use the pellets", or the one I chuckle at the most, "the TC Shockwave doesn't mushroom" the only thing I can add is, "THE DEER DON'T CARE WHAT LOAD OR PRIMER OR WHAT THE TRIGGER PULL IS OR WHAT THE BALLISTIC COEFFICIENT OF A TC SHOCKWAVE IS". That is because the deer is DEAD! End of discussion. Way too many armchair cybernet experts.


Skipper34,
There are a number of shooters that are posting questions here that just want to learn different things and/or learn how to shoot a muzzleloader better or, make it shoot better. There are also people that prefer to just do as they have alway done. IMO, I don't see anything wrong with either.

However, there are many posters that shoot very often and try different loads, bullets, primers, etc. and report their expierences about the things that they've learned and make suggestions. There'll always be people that disagree or those that have found different methods that contradict. That's what this forum is all about.....learning from others.


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## skipper34 (Oct 13, 2005)

ENCORE said:


> Skipper34,
> There are a number of shooters that are posting questions here that just want to learn different things and/or learn how to shoot a muzzleloader better or, make it shoot better. There are also people that prefer to just do as they have alway done. IMO, I don't see anything wrong with either.
> 
> However, there are many posters that shoot very often and try different loads, bullets, primers, etc. and report their expierences about the things that they've learned and make suggestions. There'll always be people that disagree or those that have found different methods that contradict. That's what this forum is all about.....learning from others.


Absolutely! Good post.


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## Steve B. (Nov 22, 2004)

skipper34 said:


> Absolutely nothing. That's my point, spoken with a touch of sarcasm. When I read things like, 'throw the Remington Cleanbore primers away", and "the Encore trigger is bad", and "you should be using this powder or that powder and don't use the pellets", or the one I chuckle at the most, "the TC Shockwave doesn't mushroom" the only thing I can add is, "THE DEER DON'T CARE WHAT LOAD OR PRIMER OR WHAT THE TRIGGER PULL IS OR WHAT THE BALLISTIC COEFFICIENT OF A TC SHOCKWAVE IS". That is because the deer is DEAD! End of discussion. Way too many armchair cybernet experts.


Yeah... Wasn't quite sure how to respond to this other than my thoughts are similar to those of Encore.

Some guys use the basics and are happy with the results, other like to tinker to see if they can take a 2-inch diameter circle of accuracy down to a 1-inch circle of accuracy.

This is a big part of my life because I am a engineer. We are taught to think out of the box, can we make it better, what are the upper limits, what are the lower limits, how can we make it better. Whether it's at home, shooting at the range, training my retrievers, it's me; take it or leave it.


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## skipper34 (Oct 13, 2005)

Steve B. said:


> Yeah... Wasn't quite sure how to respond to this other than my thoughts are similar to those of Encore.
> 
> Some guys use the basics and are happy with the results, other like to tinker to see if they can take a 2-inch diameter circle of accuracy down to a 1-inch circle of accuracy.
> 
> This is a big part of my life because I am a engineer. We are taught to think out of the box, can we make it better, what are the upper limits, what are the lower limits, how can we make it better. Whether it's at home, shooting at the range, training my retrievers, it's me; take it or leave it.


I like this post because not only does Steve state why he does what he does, he leaves out the crap about "this isn't any good", "that isn't any good", "don't do this or that." I use the basics and it works for me. May not work for the next guy, but I will never tell anyone their way isn't right if it is working.


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## sgm22325 (Dec 31, 2009)

Just remember no two guns are alike. Try a few different things, and when you find what works for you and your gun, that is what you should do. No two people shoot the same or want the same from, or for, their guns. Suggestions on what you should try are wonderful, but it comes down to your decision on what is comfortable. Any functional gun can be a tack nailer after you tune it to you. And remember to have fun doing it.


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## Titan34 (Dec 7, 2009)

Yep just as my research said. CVA Accura V2 QRBP does not work well with Blackhorn 209. The flash channel is to small. I fired two good shots while picking and using a #32 drill bit to keep my breach plug clean. The next 5 shots were delayed fire or hang fires. I gave up on it. I had to finish sighting in my new gun with 777 pellets. I used 100 grains and ended up shooting a 2.5 inch 5 shot group at 100 yards with Barnes spitfire 250 tmz's. I hated how you had to clean between each shot. I heard Blackhorn will drill out the flash hole to the recommended specs. Oh well happy with 777 but wish blackthorn worked. Love Love Love the gun I just wished the breach plug was compatible with blackhorn. Tryed CCI M 209 and CCI 209 and remmington Kleanbore primers. No luck though.


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## sourdough44 (Mar 2, 2008)

I just got back from a deer hunt with the M-L(Knight). I took 4 does & a coyote. This was private land with an over-abundance of deer. My load was 120 grns B209,CCIM primer & a 250 grn SST. I saw 2 coyotes but only got a shot at one.


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## SHOOTN4FUN (Sep 1, 2006)

Titan34 shouldn't b too hard to clean. In my encore I just spit on a patch run it down barrel and up and down around breach plug. I then repeat. Followed by one dry patch and 99% of the time its clean. I don't even fire a primer after this as I've never run into a hang fire using this method. Good luck. If ya need a hand looks like we live close so send me an email or pm.


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