# A Point To Ponder,



## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

You have just filled your deer tag. The deer is laying dead at your feet. What do you do. 
If you immediantly tag it, then you dont have a valid liscence, and could be ticketed for such. 
Or you go to your vehicle, put your fire arm away and go back and tag your deer. Although I always thought that you were to immediently tag the animal.
This discussion arose after a statement from a C.O., where she stated that if your in a woods known to be inhabitaded by deer, with a weapon normally used in the legal harvesting of deer, then your deer hunting, and had better have the valid liscence. 
Which would you do?


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## wally-eye (Oct 27, 2004)

Legally, tag the deer and if you have no more tags you unload your gun.....


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

wally-eye said:


> Legally, tag the deer and if you have no more tags you unload your gun.....


 According to her definition your still deer hunting, being in posession of a weapon used in harvesting deer, in an area known to be inhabitated by deer.


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## wally-eye (Oct 27, 2004)

GIDEON said:


> According to her definition your still deer hunting, being in posession of a weapon used in harvesting deer, in an area known to be inhabitated by deer.



Thats bunk. How then do you get your gun back to your vehicle if you're out of tags? Leave it in the woods? Doesn't matter if you walk back to the truck first or drag the deer back carrying your gun its the same results and should be handled the same way.


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## Cpt.Chaos (May 28, 2006)

So every bear hunter that shoots a bear would be a lawbreaker the instant he tags the bear? Elk hunter tagging an elk? Turkey hunter tagging his turkey? ........


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## sullyxlh (Oct 28, 2004)

Cpt.Chaos said:


> So every bear hunter that shoots a bear would be a lawbreaker the instant he tags the bear? Elk hunter tagging an elk? Turkey hunter tagging his turkey? ........


I think the key word here is loaded gun,
If it's unloaded the CO may look at it as such
if it's loaded your huntin something....


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## Cpt.Chaos (May 28, 2006)

sullyxlh said:


> I think the key word here is loaded gun,
> If it's unloaded the CO may look at it as such
> if it's loaded your huntin something....


Exactly, intent would be the focus here. Because if this was true, then CO's would never do anything but write tickets from dusk till dawn as many people only buy one tag or fill theirs yearly. In my nearly 35 yrs of hunting and fishing(been fishing since I was 4) I have never run into a CO that has not treated me or anyone in our hunting/fishing groups without the most sincere and professionalism expected from them. We actually tagged a caribou wrong in Quebec(truelly an honest mistake) and instead of the ticket we could have gotten the QPP/CO actually corrected it and assisted in dragging the 'bou up the lakeshore and over a snowbank.


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## Byron (Dec 8, 2000)

If you are carrying an unloaded weapon while dragging your recently, properly tagged deer, you aren't going to have a problem. I think I can safely assume the context of that comment was completely different, not at all involving dragging a legally tagged deer. In your hypothetical scenario, you would actually be taking more risk by walking to your vehicle with your empty weapon and no tag. One thing's for sure - the law clearly requires you to tag your deer immediately upon recovery. Walking away without tagging it certainly could get you in trouble.

Best Regards,
Byron


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## malainse (Sep 2, 2002)

wally-eye said:


> Legally, tag the deer and if you have no more tags you unload your gun.....




Odds are someone misunderstood her statement. If in the woods with a shotgun/slugs and or rifle during deer season you must possess a valid deer license. Not just a small game license or no license at all.. That is the meaning of her statement..


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

sullyxlh said:


> I think the key word here is loaded gun,
> If it's unloaded the CO may look at it as such
> if it's loaded your huntin something....


 The basis of this discussion centers on a incident that happened in 2006. My dad, who was 75 at the time went out one morning, in the process of getting dressed he realized that he had left his liscence at the cabin, he is kind of old school and carries his tags in a hoder that pins to the back of his hunting coat. Rather than drive out and get his liscence, and then drive back, which he figured might disturb other people hunting, he decided to just get in his van and take a nap. Around 9:30, the D.N.R., show up. I walk over to our vehicles, and meet them. They check my liscence, then ask my dad for his. We woke him up by talking outside of his van. He explains what happened, and that he was asleep. She ask to see his weapon, which was in the van in a case, with the shells in the pocket of the coat he was planning on wearing that morning. Well that is where the defination of hunting came from. They even took his D.L., and came back in a couple of minutes and told him when, and where he purchased his liscence. But he didnt have them on him so he recieved a ticket. 
Since then we have often speculated on the rhetorical nature of how the laws are written. No one I know has ever gotten a ticket while dragging a deer, but by this womans defination of circumstances, it would be possible.


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## Byron (Dec 8, 2000)

Well, that's certainly a very different context than your question, as I suspected. In short, your extrapolation of a simple statement in one context to another hypothetical context altogether is nothing more than an unreasonable stretch of logic. I can certainly understand the CO's suspicions that the whole truth may not have been coming out, especially given that they have to assess body language, tone, circumstances, etc. as well as the story being told. Did he go to court to defend himself? A ticket is certainly not a conviction.

Best Regards,
Byron


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

Actually there were two officers present at the time, one made a return visit to explain to my dad that he had the right to contest the citation. He gave my dad a card and told him that if he did contest the citation that he should give him a call. 

To contest the citation my father would have to go to court sometime in February. Since his plans were to be in Arizona at that time, he felt that he would be better off to donate $175, (?), to the state rather than cancel there trip. So he just paid it, and chalked up to a lesson learned. ( a lesson learned by his hole family, myself included).


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

Byron said:


> Well, that's certainly a very different context than your question, as I suspected. In short, your extrapolation of a simple statement in one context to another hypothetical context altogether is nothing more than an unreasonable stretch of logic. I can certainly understand the CO's suspicions that the whole truth may not have been coming out, especially given that they have to assess body language, tone, circumstances, etc. as well as the story being told. Did he go to court to defend himself? A ticket is certainly not a conviction.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Byron


 How would you consider it to be a unreasonable stretch of logic, as a matter of fact could you better explain your statement.


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## Byron (Dec 8, 2000)

GIDEON said:


> How would you consider it to be a unreasonable stretch of logic, as a matter of fact could you better explain your statement.


I consider it an unreasonable stretch of logic to assume that the same (or any other) CO would issue a citation for hunting without a license to a hunter dragging a recently killed, legally tagged deer while carrying an unloaded weapon in the field. It's just not going to happen.

If you feel your father was treated unfairly, be upset about that, no problem. Just don't try to extrapolate it to an unreasonable scenario. If your story is complete and true, I'm sure many things could have been done to get that citation thrown out or have him found Not Guilty in court. A call to a lawyer would have been less than $175. He could have asked for an earlier or later court date, possibly even asked for a jury trial (not sure if this is an option), called the DNR LED district supervisor, called the DA's office, sent a letter of explanation with witness statements to the judge, etc. Basically, don't demonize (in a sense) COs over what could have been a simple mistake or a mistaken impression by one CO one time. Who knows what other stories or people she had encountered recently or in the area, or what she may have heard that aroused her suspicions, etc. She may have just decided it was best for a judge to figure it out, who knows?

Hope this clarifies my intent. Sorry your father had to go through the situation and donate the money, anyway.

Best Regards,
Byron


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

Byron said:


> I consider it an unreasonable stretch of logic to assume that the same (or any other) CO would issue a citation for hunting without a license to a hunter dragging a recently killed, legally tagged deer while carrying an unloaded weapon in the field. It's just not going to happen.
> 
> [/COLOR]
> 
> ...




Its past history with the ticket, and up until that morning Being ticketed for sleeping in a automobile, would have been a further stretch of logic for me. but since then I have often wondered about situations that have arrision while in the field.

I have come to believe that a attitude problem manifested itself that morning. But none the less, it has made for some interesting conversations, and fabricated scenerios since then. ie. shooting a deer with only one liscence.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

I think somebody has been watching old Practical Sportsmen shows.

Been discussed before and the answer is the same now as it was then.

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11245&highlight=Fred


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## Wishn I was fishn (Mar 4, 2001)

boehr said:


> I think somebody has been watching old Practical Sportsmen shows.
> 
> Been discussed before and the answer is the same now as it was then.
> 
> http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11245&highlight=Fred


I was thinking the same thing.


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

boehr said:


> I think somebody has been watching old Practical Sportsmen shows.
> 
> Been discussed before and the answer is the same now as it was then.
> 
> http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11245&highlight=Fred


 Didnt realize it was a duplicate, I never thought to check a seven year old thread.


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## JWICKLUND (Feb 13, 2005)

Try to stay on track here guys. This thread has run its course.


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