# Dog hunting...



## bearhunter01 (Sep 11, 2010)

If we ban hunting bear with dogs this could very possibly give the Anti-Hunting group a foot in the door to ban all hunting. I for one would like to keep that door closed to them. Thanks


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## trapperray (Apr 30, 2010)

I am a hound hunter of raccoons,I do not run bear with my dogs for I am a **** hunter,now thats said, I agree that those select few are going to destroy our right to hunt trap and even fish,we as ethical sportsman need to try to get these few bad seeds straitened out.I live in Muskegon,Mi. and finding enough land to hunt or run my dogs is exhausting at best,private land owners have been trained in my area as to not let people on their land,I am guessing they would allow a hound hunter to retrieve his or her dog or dogs if needed, I haven't had this problem as of yet cause i hunt only were I am almost sure they have plenty of room to tree the ****.not that there isn't areas of private land in amongst the state or federal land that I hunt.I just have not run across this problem yet.If you ban hound hunting for bear then you ban all dog hunting,then it is bear,****,deer,and fur trapping etc. that will be done away with.I agree with the land owner that he give his one deed with that partcular hunter and i would of done the same,you do not create more anguish with the land owner on top of your dogs being on their land,nor do you go in with a weapon or vehicle.Please I beg of you PLEASE do not bring more to the plate for the anti's to use in their fight to ban our love and passion for hunting and the sound of the hounds on tree, for they are what I hunt for, is to hear and see my dogs do what they have been breed for.My two cents worth ,TRAPPER RAY.


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## trapperray (Apr 30, 2010)

I am a hound hunter of raccoons,I do not run bear with my dogs for I am a **** hunter,now thats said, I agree that those select few are going to destroy our right to hunt trap and even fish,we as ethical sportsman need to try to get these few bad seeds straitened out.I live in Muskegon,Mi. and finding enough land to hunt or run my dogs is exhausting at best,private land owners have been trained in my area as to not let people on their land,I am guessing they would allow a hound hunter to retrieve his or her dog or dogs if needed, I haven't had this problem as of yet cause i hunt only were I am almost sure they have plenty of room to tree the ****.not that there isn't areas of private land in amongst the state or federal land that I hunt.I just have not run across this problem yet.If you ban hound hunting for bear then you ban all dog hunting,then it is bear,****,deer,and fur trapping etc. that will be done away with.I agree with the land owner that he give his one deed with that partcular hunter and i would of done the same,you do not create more anguish with the land owner on top of your dogs being on their land,nor do you go in with a weapon or vehicle.Please I beg of you PLEASE do not bring more to the plate for the anti's to use in their fight to ban our love and passion for hunting and the sound of the hounds on tree, for they are what I hunt for, is to hear and see my dogs do what they have been breed for.My two cents worth ,TRAPPER RAY.


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## anon12162011 (Jun 9, 2009)

Twice this year my Dad has had houndsman illegally come onto his land in Southeast Lake County.

He lives back on a private lake and there is no public land that borders it.

BOTH times the dogs were turned loose from the road (which is private on both sides) and sent on the tracks. Its a well known fact there are good numbers of bears around our place and the houndsman around there have no disregard or respect for any of the landowners pulling crap like this.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Now that we have established there are some trespass issues...rather than continuing slamming everyone who hunts with dogs how about asking MDNRE where is the law enforcement in those areas with cronic trespass problems? Is it now off limits for C.O.'s to shadow the dog hunters in those areas and stop them once in awhile and screen them for violations other than trespass...rather than saying, "there's nothing I can do?" Its called proactive law enforcement. Old school C.O.'s would make it their mission...and those unethical individuals can not function if being 
(legally) shadowed. 

Don't take this post to mean I am slamming our C.O.'s. We have enough information coming from within the department to know the MDNRE administration is using the C.O.'s as a scape goat where there is a breakdown in law enforcement.


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## lang49 (Aug 1, 2005)

Rooster-

Laws governing dogs and those who own them are perhaps the most unenforced laws in this state! The DNR (and those that run it) have shown time and time again that they would rather adjust the laws to make the world a safer place for unattended dogs than enforce the laws that are designed to encourage safe ethical running of those dogs by their owners.


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## Gary A. Schinske (Jul 10, 2006)

It was not too many years ago that I did not have much use for houndmen running, bear, cat and coyote. I had my share of run-ins including personal threats, torn down gates and true treaspassing. I am also a trapper and there certainly has been tension between the hound groups and the trapper groups. Then one day I got an e-mail from a houndperson wanting to know if they could help in anyway get the bobcat situation resolved between trappers and houndmen. Once I picked myself off the floor and realized it was not a joke or prank, I realized my negative encounters were with some houndmen and not all houndmen. Then I found another houndperson, honestly concerned about the relationship between houndmen and trappers as well as the inequities over bobcat. And then I found another and another. Today, I can honestly say I have houndmen as friends as well as mutually respected sportsman in multiple states as well as Michigan. At one time I hated certain houndmen as much as any of you. Today I cherish the friendship and common sportsman goals of many houndmen. As has been said over and over, we can not fight amongst ourselves when the only winner will be the anti's. Every sports groups has buttholes/poachers/violators etc. It is up to each of us to turn those particular people in to the appropriate authorities while extending our hand of friendship to the others that respect our sport(what ever it is), our rights, our natural resources and are true law abiding sportsmen.


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## welcometomyworld (Mar 6, 2006)

Buck Rogers said:


> Yes, That was my brother in laws 12 year old son. First deer. Pretty exciting stuff.


Good for him!!!! Anyway's to all that posted here like I said this was the first time in eleven year's that I had this has happened and I hope it's a one time deal. I won't be so cordial next time as to letting people drive in if they want to get the dog's, they can park on the state land and hump all the way in.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Some folks don't seem to understand...dedicated houndsmen here in Michigan are also the victim when this stuff happens. Many of us have experienced confrontations with those unethical individuals over the years, too. Those same individuals do not confine their unethical hunting to just when they have dogs with them...they are that way in other outdoor activities as well. MDNRE needs to step it up. Hopefully, after the election the new governor will look deep inside the MDNRE administration...and find a way to get some feedback from folks in the field without fear of them losing their jobs. Then maybe we will get the proactive law enforcement we need to weed out the culls in this state.


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## Buck Rogers (Nov 7, 2004)

oh my Gosh. Just reading through this. I was not trying to say that all houndsman were bad. Like WTMW this is the first incident I have had in 7 years. I consider myself to be somewhat of a houndsman myself. All my life I have had birddogs and 90 percent of the hunt is watching the dogs work. I would never side that I wanted to elimated this altogether just because of a few bad eggs. As a matter of fact I would love to be offered the opportunity to tag along with a reputable houndman just to watch the dogs work. Even if I wasn't the hunter. 

We as sportmen need to stick together and when we come across individuals like this, let the authorities handle it but don't go blaming everyone that does it. That's just crazy.


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## GoNorthMore (Jul 17, 2009)

Never had problems with bear hunters, but the same few grouse hunters using dogs know we manage our property for grouse and try to say they can't see the no tresspassing signs I have posted every 40 ft, or that they didn't see that single strand wire they stepped over, when they walk in from the state land. Whether using dogs or not, hunting bear, bobcat, grouse, deer or anything else, there are slobs out there that don't deserve the title 'hunter'. 
Sorry for the rant. Glad to see legitimate dog men understand these slobs need to be dealt with before they screw it up for all of us.


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## Andy Drumm (Dec 23, 2008)

I have had way more issues with deer hunters than people hunting dogs on my property .. 
Heres an interesting little story .. I spent Saturday night **** hunting (with dogs) and was trying to get back to my truck before the bow hunters arrived .. (I was hunting large sections of state land less then a mile from my home)Well , I made it back to my truck at 5:56 sunday morning to find a rather disturbed bow hunter parked beside my truck . As I was loading my dogs in the truck , I apologized for not being out of the woods before he arrived ( Really dont think I had to , just did to try to keep peace) .. He started ranting about us coonhunters ruining his deer hunting , and how we should not be able to run dogs during deer season ! Hmm  around here deer season come in in September 16 (early antlerless and youth) and continues to January 1 . Nearly 4 months of deer hunting .. As he continued to scream at me , and inform me that he was calling the DNR to report me for hunter harassment  because i ruined his hunt on state land by treeing **** during the night lol .. As he pulled away calling me everything but an American .. I noticed the Ohio plates on his new F150 ..


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## Bearboy (Feb 4, 2009)

I always get a kick out of the perception that dogs ruin hunting. I generally hear it from people that really don't understand their quarry. Although you notice the dogs...you may not notice the other hunters. When the UP is saturated with bait hunters, the hound hunters numbers are far less. Not as easy to notice are the bait stands. We all have a right to hunt. When my bait sites stop clicking...most of the time someone shot the bear that was visiting. Contrary to what lots of folks think...the multiple bear hitting baits is not the norm. Bear make lots of sign. Camera's are very deceiving. Bear are killed by bait hunters and hound hunters, but if you look at the statistics you will see who kills nearly 90%. The excessive tags issued in Michigan is most of the bear problem. As far as ruining deer hunting...I am still looking for a pack of hounds that can keep the deer out of my garden! Mine sure don't. Nor do they keep out the *****, skunks, coyotes, and whatever else wanders in. The woods are full of canines....I really don't think animals know the difference. They sure understand what people are. That will change dailey habits in a hurry. Even with your scent-lok and other foolish purchases.:lol:


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## welcometomyworld (Mar 6, 2006)

Well the dog hunting must not have had to big of an impact, we still have this guy coming in, hopefully my uncle can get it with his bow.


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## Nimrod1 (Apr 26, 2004)

He's a circus bear!!:lol:
Great pics, and good luck to your uncle.:coolgleam


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## packmaster (Mar 1, 2010)

Very cool Pics! I hope he gets him. As a hound hunter(beagler)I apologize on anything that someone may have done to make you upset.There are always a few bad apples no matter what you do.Good luck on the bear.They taste Great!


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## finder (Oct 21, 2010)

Owning and living on property that borders state land, I understand that there may be times that dogs may follow a bear into places they should not be. However, in trying to persuade the dog owners to be more respectful of my rights as a property owner, I have been threatened physically and verbally, had my mailbox destroyed, had more than a half acre of ground burned and told that if I don't like it I should just move away. The reasoning behind all this confrontation is that they have hunted across this land for years and the fact that I now own it is irrelevant. So, not feeling like I had much choice, I called the sheriff, not the DNR. What followed was a polite but firm warning to the dog owners that if they continued to trespass for any reason on my property, they would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The next day my mailbox was smashed and on the ground but I have not had much trouble since. I keep the property posted and hope that there is not a large bear to tempt the dog owners to return. 

By the way, I've been a hunter all my adult life but I don't understand wanting to chase an animal up a tree or corner it somehow and just shoot it. Sitting on the side of the road waiting for your dogs to run a bear down is not really hunting. If dog owners were required to actually maintain physical contact with their dogs while they ran through the woods it would certainly solve most of the trespass issues as many of the dog owners would just quit I believe. The ones that continued to pursue the animals would be welcome to ask permission to hunt my land and would probably get it.


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## LarryA (Jun 16, 2004)

Finder,

The individuasl you experienced are not sportsmen in my book. I hope you have little issues with them in the future. There are means of dealing with unsportsmen like individuals. What you did makes perfect sense.

To explain hunting with hounds and what is involved would mean little to you without experiencing it. I hunt many types of game and run a trapline, but my most satisfing pursuit is following hounds. There is much more to it than you can imagine. By the way, is physically impossible to follow closely to hounds running a hot track.

Good luck in the future.


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## finder (Oct 21, 2010)

To LarryA,

I appreciate your replying to my post and your supporting my actions. I'm sure you're right about the excitement of following the hounds however I have to say I like the idea that another bear hunter put forth about taking video and pictures of bears etc. once they've been treed rather than just shooting them. I like having bears around even if I don't see them a lot...I see sign and I know they are there. In my area at least, I don't think there is an overabundance of them and given the pressure being put on them by continued development, I'd like to see more restrictions put on where they can be pursued. I know it's not a popular idea but the fact is there are just too many people and not enough habitat in general. That's one of the reasons I try to keep my property free of intruders as possible and have stopped hunting it myself in fact. It's quiet and covered with apple and beech trees. I have the pleasure of seeing most varieties of animals found in Northern Michigan out my back window. I could do without so many coyotes though.


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## hubbarj (Jan 30, 2007)

finder said:


> By the way, I've been a hunter all my adult life but I don't understand wanting to chase an animal up a tree or corner it somehow and just shoot it. Sitting on the side of the road waiting for your dogs to run a bear down is not really hunting. If dog owners were required to actually maintain physical contact with their dogs while they ran through the woods it would certainly solve most of the trespass issues as many of the dog owners would just quit I believe. The ones that continued to pursue the animals would be welcome to ask permission to hunt my land and would probably get it.


This is a comment made by someone that has no idea what a hound hunt is all about. I have harvested bear both way and I don't think there is much sport in training a bear to come to dinner at the same time every night and then shooting him while he is eating but I realize that many people enjoy this. Most bait sitter don't have the conditioning and drive to harvest a bear with dogs. Yes we tree a few easy ones but you need to want to spend hours walking long distances in the thickest and wettest swamps. I don't mean a slow walk either you need to move to get the job done. I have hunted with many people that felt much like you before they hunted with us and now they respect what it take to be successful doing what we do. I am not trying to start something just giving you a little insight. I am sorry these so called houndsmen have given you such a hard time and I believe you did the right thing, hopefully they will stay away from your property.
John Hubbard


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## finder (Oct 21, 2010)

To hubbarj,
I admit I've never hunted with hounds but as you can tell from my experiences with the clowns in my area why that may be. I can understand the excitement but another thing that has bothered me is some of the treatment of the dogs by the locals. I've had several left at least over night in the woods and then show up at my doorstep. A few years ago i the early morning a dog was hit by a neighbor on the road out front and I stopped to make sure there was nothing to be done for it. The girl who hit it was devastated. As I was on my way to work I saw a truck with kennels in back coming my way and flagged him down. Told him where the dog was and all I got was a few choice words as he sped off. At the end of the day I found the dog's body in the ditch out front, minus the collar of course, and it laid there until I got the county to come get it. This sort of thing happens or comes close to happening as there is a fair amount of traffic here especially in the morning and evening and with the dogs crossing the roads from private land particularly, there are bound to be incidents. Cars frequently are expected to slow to a crawl on public roads because here are a half dozen or more vehicles parked on both sides waiting for dogs chasing bears. The dogs, people and bears for that matter are in un-necessary danger of being hit by a car, especially the way people drive these days. The fact is there just isn't the room there use to be here for this kind of activity.


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## davidshane (Feb 29, 2004)

I've never hunted bear with dogs and really don't know anyone who has; however, GOD BLESS THEM HOUNDSMEN. One of these days I hope to run some bears with them. I hope people understand that there are bad guys involved in everything doable. Trespassers are trespassers and you will find tons of them walking in and hunting your deer, rabbits and birds. 

I hope this is not allowed to turn into a dog bashing.


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## johnnyrick1981 (May 27, 2008)

finder, There is room for this kind of activity, for you to ASSUME to know what persuing game with hounds is all about is ........well, you know what they say about people who assume.


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## finder (Oct 21, 2010)

johnnyrick1981 said:


> finder, There is room for this kind of activity, for you to ASSUME to know what persuing game with hounds is all about is ........well, you know what they say about people who assume.


Never stated I know what it's all about, just airing my experiences and concerns. No need to get abusive. Makes me wonder if you aren't one of the doggers I'm talking about though.

I'm actually hoping that some of the less sportsmanlike characters will read this and think about their next encounter with land owners like me who just want to be allowed to enjoy and hunt our property in peace. I asked one guy how he'd like it if I got together with a bunch of my friends with their dogs and we came and hunted in his front yard, getting him out of bed after he's worked late the night before and scaring his family. He didn't have much to say to that.


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