# Flies Only?



## steelton

I was talking with some friend and we got onto the topic of the pm's flies only section and the lure only section. What I was trying to decide is where is the line drawn in the distinction between a lure and a fly? Or rather is there a set law that clarifies how or what to use where. For instance is a marabou jig an over sized bead eye streamer or is the line more drawn by how one fishes said lure or fly. In which case would a spey streamer be no different than a musky spinner, both have treble hooks and metal in there construction and both are cast out a reeled or stripped back. Is it something more subtle like how much the steel or plastic plays a role in the actual catching of the fish, like the spinning and flashing of a metal blade or the wobble action from a plastic bill of a crankbait. I don't think I would try to throw crankbaits or spinners in the flies only section, but a marbou jig seem to something never seen nor talked of in that stretch mostly because of the rods that are behind them aren't used in that stretch either. Thanks for an input on the topic.


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## spencerhicks

As defined in the Michigan DNR fishing guide:

"Artificial Flies means any commonly accepted single hook wet and dry 
flies, streamers, and nymphs without spinner, spoon, scoop, lip or any 
other fishing lure or bait attached. The fly or leader may be weighted 
but no weight shall be attached to the fly or to the terminal tackle in a 
manner that allows the weight to be suspended from or below the hook."


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## gunrod

Steelton, welcome to the site. While your question seems innocent enough there seems to always be some pot stirring when the phrase 'flies only' comes up.

Debate away. Just keep it civil in nature and within the guide lines of the site. This is for everyone who chooses to post on this topic. 

Thanks.....


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## steelton

I realize now that the post does seem to stir the pot, but I wanted to say that I fully support flies only sections as well as lure only sections. I cut my teeth on trout fishing with worms as most kids did, but I have since corrected those ways. I now know that I can catch and release more trout by fishing with more enlighten techniques. I switched to lures for trout and occasionally a fly rod when the mood strikes. Its just that I have picked up center pinning in the past few steelhead seasons and I want to learn to fish for trout with nymphs and the like. I also didn't wanna do something taboo or illegal in a flies only section. It took some reading, but I did find that section and I feel a little dumb for not finding it sooner. Thanks for the input. Now its time to find out the laws on net sizes and handle lengths for the different rivers types. Thanks again.


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## troutguy26

If ya dont mind what is it that makes you support the flies only/lures only sections? Im not trying to get this going if anyone is wondering, im just curious as to what he thinks about it.


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## rcleofly

This topic is dangerous.

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## Shoeman

gunrod said:


> Steelton, welcome to the site. While your question seems innocent enough there seems to always be some pot stirring when the phrase 'flies only' comes up.
> 
> Debate away. Just keep it civil in nature and within the guide lines of the site. This is for everyone who chooses to post on this topic.
> 
> Thanks.....


Actually I'm going to move this thread into the gear restriction forum

It's threads like this that have discouraged many well-versed flydunkers from posting on M-S


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## troutguy26

I know its a touchy subject and wasnt looking to push a voice either way on it just never heard from someone who bait and fly fishes and is in favor of gear regs so i guess curiosity got the cat and i asked. I shouldve pm'd instead maybe. I fly fish and bait fish and do agree this subject has discouraged people from posting whether they are fly fishing and c/r or bait fishing and keeping fish. Its divided people in a big way no matter how they go about it cause one side usually takes a poke at another.


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## steelton

It's no problem. I accept all disciplines of fishing as long as they are legal. I sometimes feel like alot of the animosity on this topic is onesided. I look up too people who have the diligence to master fly fishing and all its benefits. I just feel a little hated when people find out I like to dunk bait as well as other techniques. My passion is first and foremost the water and its surrounding, not necessarily the trout as is common with most bait fishermen. I don't think that catch and no kill sections are going to save or trout it just makes people aware that we don't need to kill trout to enjoy them fully. I take as many new people trout fishing as possible and I treat every outing the same no kill no matter where were at, you have to kiss your first trout and send it back unharmed. Also no bait lures only or flies which ever you choose. If you start someone off right then maybe they'll do the same with their kids someday. Hey even us spin sinners can be insanely passionate for trout. Think back who do you know that kisses trout?


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## rcleofly

Good answer.

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## toto

:chillin:Uh well, I think I'll try to stick to the question, as hard as that may be. On the issue of trebles or not, if its in question, I would just tie, or change the hooks to single hooks, and then you shouldn't have a problem.

How'd I do?????


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## The Downstream Drift

toto said:


> :chillin:Uh well, I think I'll try to stick to the question, as hard as that may be. On the issue of trebles or not, if its in question, I would just tie, or change the hooks to single hooks, and then you shouldn't have a problem.
> 
> How'd I do?????


WOW! Don't take this as sarcasm, but great job at sticking to the question. You have been very passionate about the gear reg issue and I was waiting for another great Toto post. I'm very impressed you left the gear reg opinions to those that want to search previous threads because we all know you have at least one opinion on this topic.


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## toto

No I don't take it as sarcasm, the guy asked an honest question and I tried to give my input honestly. I don't have a problem with fly fishing perse, so why not give some advice on it? The rest I'll leave for another day, but I will say it isn't over yet, at least not in my mind.


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## REG

Steelton,

You ask a very good question. As it relates to what's a fly, there is a grey area where it never seems there is a concrete answer. In the past, I have been told (by non-DNR folks) that it's illegal to use a marabou jig/woolly bugger jig, but yet lead eye and/or bead heads are perfectly acceptable. As Spencer Hicks posted from the DNR website,_ "The fly or leader may be weighted but no weight shall be attached to the fly or to the terminal tackle in a manner that allows the weight to be suspended from or below the hook."_

Taken from the definition above, it appears that bead head/lead eye streamers would be illegal, but then the people who told me this spend lots and lots of time in the FO water. So...my guess is that part of the regulation is not micromanaged down to that detail. But,????? Probably be more fruitful directing the question toward DNR enforcement folks.

Your last post was very personal. I am sure you also understand there are many folks on both sides of the issue that feel the same about the resource in general as you do. I am confident that over the years you will separate the wheat from the chafe. Enjoy however you deem to fish, and never let ANYONE make you feel a third rate citizen for it. As you imply, it's all good.


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## thousandcasts

REG said:


> Steelton,
> 
> You ask a very good question. As it relates to what's a fly, there is a grey area where it never seems there is a concrete answer. In the past, I have been told (by non-DNR folks) that it's illegal to use a marabou jig/woolly bugger jig, but yet lead eye and/or bead heads are perfectly acceptable. As Spencer Hicks posted from the DNR website,_ "The fly or leader may be weighted but no weight shall be attached to the fly or to the terminal tackle in a manner that allows the weight to be suspended from or below the hook."_
> 
> Taken from the definition above, it appears that bead head/lead eye streamers would be illegal, but then the people who told me this spend lots and lots of time in the FO water. *So...my guess is that part of the regulation is not micromanaged down to that detail. But,????? Probably be more fruitful directing the question toward DNR enforcement folks.*
> 
> .


Good post.

Definitely contact the DNR law enforcement division--specifically, try to find the CO that's responsible for that area of the river. The reason I say that is because something like that has gray area and could be strictly up to the discretion of the officer patrolling the river. I've asked one CO about the whole glue egg thing and he said he wouldn't bother anyone over that. Then again, I've heard others say it's illegal. So...better to ask the guy who's in charge of that area.


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## OldBuck

As more patterns and techniques are developed, the definition of a fly becomes more blurred.

I was told by the DNR that the key to defining a fly for GR water is whether it is commonly accepted as such; is tied on a _single_ hook (double-pointed and even treble-pointed hooks _are_ legal), and meet the rest of the criteria as stated in the rules.

Many "commonly accepted" fly patterns, such as the Wiggle Hex, and many streamers with tandem hooks, are NOT legal by definition as they use 2 separate hooks.


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## woolybug25

OldBuck said:


> As more patterns and techniques are developed, the definition of a fly becomes more blurred.
> 
> I was told by the DNR that the key to defining a fly for GR water is whether it is commonly accepted as such; is tied on a _single_ hook (double-pointed and even treble-pointed hooks _are_ legal), and meet the rest of the criteria as stated in the rules.
> 
> Many "commonly accepted" fly patterns, such as the Wiggle Hex, and many streamers with tandem hooks, are NOT legal by definition as they use 2 separate hooks.


I've always been told that if you clip the second hook things like wiggles hex's, articulated streamers, etc are ok. I'm pretty sure it is widely accepted that two hook points are bad, but articulated flies are fine as long as one of the hooks is clipped.


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## TK81

thousandcasts said:


> Good post.
> 
> Definitely contact the DNR law enforcement division--specifically, try to find the CO that's responsible for that area of the river. The reason I say that is because something like that has gray area and could be strictly up to the discretion of the officer patrolling the river. I've asked one CO about the whole glue egg thing and he said he wouldn't bother anyone over that. Then again, I've heard others say it's illegal. So...better to ask the guy who's in charge of that area.


Yeah, the glue egg thing. I met a couple friends on the "flies only" PM water last year and they said the hot bite was on this new fly. My bud gave me a couple green glue eggs. They worked great, but after the trip I started wondering whether they were legal. No feather or fabric. Just an orb of hot glue on an egg hook.

Probably should call the DNR. Anybody else have experience with these "flies" from a legal perspective?


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## OldBuck

Personally, I would think the "glue egg fly" would be legal as it seems to be commonly accepted as a fly and has been featured in several fly tying magazines. Again, the key phrase is "commonly accepted".


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## steelton

The issue of a treble hook for me is simple don't use them. I've been meaning the make my own inline spinners so that I can use a single hook instead of a treble. Alot of the fish I chase are so small that carefully removing a treble hook from their mouths begins to take up time I could be looking for that bruiser. Also more time out of the water means a potentially higher mortality rate. I've even taken to bending the barb down so I can release them even faster. Just reach down with the hemo's and one quick twist back in the water. I agree I do need to consult those who'd be issuing me the ticket on whether or not I'd be in the wrong before actually being their. Then again I could just use a bead eye streamers instead a marabou jig, might have to find a way to tie in so that it hangs the way I want to. Anyways thank to all for your input and sharing your viewpoints on the way we might see law differently while all still being right as far as the law is concerned.


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