# Starting set up?



## cornfed (Mar 21, 2010)

I am not new to trout, salmon and steelhead but have very
little knowledge about fly fishing setups in general. I have messed
around over the years on ponds with borrowed equipment for gills and bass. I am wanting to get into fly fishing and was looking for suggestions. I dont know anything about rod weight or the lines.

I want to learn this craft the correct way and will be attending one of PM Lodges schools either later this year of early next but want to a
little hands on the rod before hand. 

This is something I want to be able to teach my boys and have that
time together with them.

If anyone can point me in the right direction or give pointers, I would GREATLY appreciate it!!!

Scott


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## polarbear78 (Jan 26, 2011)

Cabelas has some great combo deals.... for like 50 or 60 bucks. That's what I have and have never had a problem with them... I have a 5/6 weight and an 8 weight.... if you're looking for an all around set up I would say look for a 5 or 6 weight. This will allow you to fish trout, panfish, bass...the higher the weight number, the more heavy duty it is. You will also want to get a couple extra leaders (I don't remember if the combos I mentioned come with one pre tied on or not) but the leaders come in various lengths and strengths as well...when you are looking at leaders the packages they are in will say how strong they are and what they are designed for. You will also want to get a spool or two of tippet. This again comes in various sizes and the size you use depends on what type of fish you are targeting. Flies are obvious, but can be pricy... I tie my own, but I know you can buy assortments of them, or I think they are roughly $1.35 each at Cabelas... Get a nice water proof case, or even a case in general for them...cheap ones for about $7.00. Also, altoid tins work great for holding flies... Below are the links to the Cabelas combos and some youtube videos. I highly recommend you watch them... There are 6 total, they are each about 9 minutes long, but the info in them is more than you would get from a lesson...

Best of luck, and let us know what you decide to get!

PB 78

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Fishing/Fly-Fishing/Fly-Fishing-Rod-Reel-Combos|/pc/104793480/c/104721480/sc/105571980/Cabelas-Cahill-Fly-Rod-and-Reel-Outfit/732362.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Ffishing-fly-fishing-fly-fishing-rod-reel-combos%2F_%2FN-1102570%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_105571980%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BMMcat104793480%253Bcat104721480&WTz_l=SBC%3BMMcat104793480%3Bcat104721480%3Bcat105571980

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Fishing/Fly-Fishing/Fly-Fishing-Rod-Reel-Combos|/pc/104793480/c/104721480/sc/105571980/Redington8482-Crosswater-Outfit/744126.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Ffishing-fly-fishing-fly-fishing-rod-reel-combos%2F_%2FN-1102570%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_105571980%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BMMcat104793480%253Bcat104721480&WTz_l=SBC%3BMMcat104793480%3Bcat104721480%3Bcat105571980

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Fishing/Fly-Fishing/Fly-Fishing-Rod-Reel-Combos|/pc/104793480/c/104721480/sc/105571980/Cabelas-Prestige174-Fly-Fishing-Outfits/732372.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Ffishing-fly-fishing-fly-fishing-rod-reel-combos%2F_%2FN-1102570%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_105571980%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BMMcat104793480%253Bcat104721480&WTz_l=SBC%3BMMcat104793480%3Bcat104721480%3Bcat105571980


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## williamhj (Mar 19, 2011)

I second the first poster's information. The combos at Cabelas are a great place to start. You can spend hundreds on a fly rod, but there's no reason to, especially when you're getting started. I own a number of different styles of reels, but do like the Cabela's Prestige Plus that I have (I now have 3).

If you want to focus on bass, I'd lean towards the 6wt because you'll want to throw some big stuff, but if you get a 5wt you'll probably be fine. A 5 or 6wt would like you go for bass, trout, and panfish without much limitation Get a 9 foot rod. I also recommend getting a 4 piece, unless you live right on the water. My first rod is a 2 piece and I have found it annoying to transport a number of times. 

In addition to youtube videos, I have found this site very helpful for explaining the different equipment.
http://www.hooked-on-flies.com/ It has good information on the lines and rod weights, the leaders and tippets, different types of flies, hooks sizes, reels, etc. 

Also the Orvis fly fishing podcast (can get it on iTunes or through the Orvis webpage) has a lot of great information.


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## OldRugger7 (Jan 17, 2011)

I agree with PolarBear78 and WilliamHJ regarding equipment. Staring out with an expensive setup is not necessary. The Cabelas suggestion is a good one. Surprisingly, LLBean also has some very affordable kits that have been getting some outstanding reviews (you can always find a free shipping coupon for LLBean at any major coupon site). I also agree that a 5 or 6 weight will be your go-to rod for most species.

Regarding technique and the rest of your setup, I suggest hiring a casting instructor. Casting instructors are very affordable. As you learn to cast, talk to your instructor about the species you intend to pursue and where you will be doing so (lake, river, boat, etc.) Your instructor will likely help you assemble a list of leaders, tippets and other essentials. Specific one-on-one advice will likely save you enough money to offset the cost of your lesson because of the potential of unwasted money on unecessary kit.

Casting instructors can be found at http://www.fedflyfishers.org/Default.aspx?tabid=4465 or at your local fly shop. My last casting lesson was $35.00 at my neighborhood outfitter.


Redington and Scientific Angler both have affordably priced youth rods for your boys. Thank you for passing our sport on to your children!

Good luck.


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## Bull Market (Mar 12, 2005)

And, by all means, get active in your local Trout Unlimited or Federation of Fly Fishers chapter. For the most part, they are a very friendly bunch of guys and gals, and are willing to take newbies "under their wing". 
Questions will arise continually throughout your FF education. It will be nice to have a few people you know personally, and aren't afraid to ask them questions. Get involved and meet some people.


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## Beaglernr (Dec 1, 2002)

A couple books which can be important to beginners:
Fly Fishing for Trout, by Dick Talleur, this is targeted for trout and has all of the fundamentals to use for other fish. Dick is a easy read with fantastic foundation on everything from line weights, flies, knots, leaders, reading streams, equipment care, plus much much more.

Curtis Creek Manifesto, this is a old but fun read with some great information, not as complete as Talleurs but still fun to read.

Fly Fishing for Dummies, yep the familiar yellow and black covered books have on on fly fishing, it is not a bad read for beginners.

As others said, find a mentor and head out to the river.


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## Jfish (Sep 22, 2010)

I wonder what happened to the last two videos?


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## bchez (Jan 19, 2010)

If you want to read a good description of how to set up, go to the Baldwin Bait and Tackle web site and join. These guys are guides on the Pere Marquette river and under rigging Steve gives a great description fo how to rig.
_________________________________________________
There's No Head Like..._STEELHEAD!!! _


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## polarbear78 (Jan 26, 2011)

Jfish said:


> I wonder what happened to the last two videos?


? still there for me...


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## Jfish (Sep 22, 2010)

polarbear78 said:


> ? still there for me...


Strange. They're back now for me. Since I posted that I haven't been able to see them.


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## brookies101 (Jun 23, 2008)

I've finally had the chance to sit back and watch them all. Very informative video's. Going to put some of that newly aquired knowledge to use this weekend. 

Thanks for posting those, its greatly appreciated


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## Jfish (Sep 22, 2010)

Apparently it's just this iPad that won't play videos 5 and 6. My pc will no problem. Darn apple products!


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## polarbear78 (Jan 26, 2011)

Jfish said:


> Darn apple products!


Love my macbook pro!


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## Jfish (Sep 22, 2010)

polarbear78 said:


> Love my macbook pro!


Do you have any idea why this iPad would be doing this? I got this thing for no charge and it's convenient to browse the net. I guess I get what I pay for lol


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## polarbear78 (Jan 26, 2011)

no clue...i would go and google it.... pretty much anything and everything there...


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## CHUCK n BUCK (Apr 6, 2004)

Just ordered the Prestige combo/kit from Cabelas link that polarbear put up. Went with the 9ft 6wt set up. It comes with floating fly line and two leaders and some other stuff. I'm gonna try some fly fishing this summer when I come up to Michigan for a month at the end of June. Plan on camping on the PM for a week and would like to try this stuff out. I've trout fished lots in Michigan and on the PM but never with fly rod. I figured if I'm gonna be there a while I might as well try something new out. Figure I'll hit the fly only water an evening or two.

This thread has been very helpful. One thing that I don't understand when it comes to fly fishing is the leader and tippet. 

What exactly is tippet and when do you use it? 

Also, I'm not sure about what type of fly line I will need for fishing the PM waters. Will the floating fly line be alright for nymph fishing and dry flys both?

Thanks for any info.
CnB


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## Bull Market (Mar 12, 2005)

Floating fly line will be fine for both dries and nymphs. However, you'll need either weighted nymphs or split shot (or both) to get the nymphs down to where they need to be.

For streamers, you'll want some sort of sink tip line. I like the SA Streamer Express in 200 or 250 grains.

The tippet is just the final portion of the leader, to which you tie the fly. On a brand new leader, the tippet is already included, as a continuous extention to the leader. As you tie, cut off, and re-tie new flies, over and over, the tippet section gets cut away, and the leader starts getting thicker and thicker. That's when you pull out your tippet spool, and tie on another length of tippet material, so you can continue to use the same leader. Just keep adding tippet material as necessary.

Good luck.


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## Jfish (Sep 22, 2010)

Bull Market said:


> The tippet is just the final portion of the leader, to which you tie the fly. On a brand new leader, the tippet is already included, as a continuous extention to the leader. As you tie, cut off, and re-tie new flies, over and over, the tippet section gets cut away, and the leader starts getting thicker and thicker. That's when you pull out your tippet spool, and tie on another length of tippet material, so you can continue to use the same leader. Just keep adding tippet material as necessary.


I second that. Use a sugeon's knot to tie the tippet on. Make sure whenever you tie those little tiny flies on that you wet the line first. As well as tying on the tippet.


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## CHUCK n BUCK (Apr 6, 2004)

Got it. Thanks for explaining. 

So if I hit the river I may want 3 or 4 leaders and a spool of tippet? If you get your fly hung up in a tree and have to break off do you usually lose the whole leader or it breaks down where the tippet is?


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## Jfish (Sep 22, 2010)

CHUCK n BUCK said:


> Got it. Thanks for explaining.
> 
> So if I hit the river I may want 3 or 4 leaders and a spool of tippet? If you get your fly hung up in a tree and have to break off do you usually lose the whole leader or it breaks down where the tippet is?


You can buy leaders if you want. Either Mono or Fluro. The bigger the X the smaller the leader or tippet. You could also go the cheap route. Get some 3 or 4 pound fluro (that's not tippet) and use it for brookies as your tippet. That's all tippet is. Use 6lb for your leader. Or just change sizes based on bigger and smaller fish. It's a heck of a lot cheaper than buying tapered leaders and 25 yd tippets. The tippet spools are much more expensive but they're smaller and more convenient to carry. Tippet is a money making scam imo.

I've heard of guys making their own tapered leaders too. 10 to 8 to 6 to 4 to 2 or whatever.

Your breaks will usually occur at the weakest point. Aka tippet.


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## CHUCK n BUCK (Apr 6, 2004)

Jfish, so are you saying I can just buy a spool of 6 lb mono and use it for my leader attached to my fly line?


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

Jfish said:


> You can buy leaders if you want. Either Mono or Fluro. The bigger the X the smaller the leader or tippet. You could also go the cheap route. Get some 3 or 4 pound fluro (that's not tippet) and use it for brookies as your tippet. That's all tippet is. Use 6lb for your leader. Or just change sizes based on bigger and smaller fish. It's a heck of a lot cheaper than buying tapered leaders and 25 yd tippets. The tippet spools are much more expensive but they're smaller and more convenient to carry. Tippet is a money making scam imo.
> 
> I've heard of guys making their own tapered leaders too. 10 to 8 to 6 to 4 to 2 or whatever.
> 
> Your breaks will usually occur at the weakest point. Aka tippet.


 I aggree to a point but i dissagree mostly.
Sometimes you can get a way with straight mono most times you cant. If im night fishing topwater flies like, hex, mice, houghton lake specials etc. i use 10 lb mono attached to a short section of 30 lb mono shock absorber for 20 inch +fish loop to loop fashion. When im fishing hatches then i believe presentation is everything.A long tapered leader lays the flie out nicely for perfect presentations. Once you tie off several times you need to replace the last 3 foot called the tippet. Sometimes brookies can be quite finicky other times they could care less. When im fishing clear water to selective trout a long tapered leader is a must.
Learn how to tie good knots and you wont have any problems with line breaks.


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## Jfish (Sep 22, 2010)

CHUCK n BUCK said:


> Jfish, so are you saying I can just buy a spool of 6 lb mono and use it for my leader attached to my fly line?


I would not use mono. Use flurocarbon all day.

Brushbuster,

When you use 3 ft of tippet on your leader, what exactly is the difference between that and just using heavier line attatched to lighter line (aka home made tippet and leader)? Is the presentation any different at all?


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## quack head (Oct 23, 2007)

CHUCK n BUCK said:


> Jfish, so are you saying I can just buy a spool of 6 lb mono and use it for my leader attached to my fly line?


No you cannot. A leader is tapered. It has a larger diamiter at the head (where you tie it to your fly line) than at the tail (smaller diamiter). This is so the line "rolls out" Think of a whip. But you can use a 6lb mono for your tippit. (line from leader to fly) Think of your fly line, leader, and tippit as one continueous slowly tapering line. You need this taper so that it carries energy all the way to the fly. If you lose this energy along the line at any point it can pile up on you when presenting the fly. If you add too much tippit for example it will pile up on you instead of rolling all the way out. 

Keep in mind if you use regular mono at 6lb's its diamiter will be grater than that of 5x tippit in genneral. 

Hope this helped.


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

Jfish said:


> I would not use mono. Use flurocarbon all day.
> 
> Brushbuster,
> 
> When you use 3 ft of tippet on your leader, what exactly is the difference between that and just using heavier line attatched to lighter line (aka home made tippet and leader)? Is the presentation any different at all?


 A rule of thumb when making leaders is you should not step down more than 2 line diamater sizes .. The stepping down or tapering is what allows the fly to roll out properly. Otherwise the end of the line will just pile up and not lay out. I dont get to concerned about this under the guise of darkness as then im not casting out much line. typically no more than a rods length. Its more on stealth wading and picking my fly in front of the fishes nose than casting, in those circumstances. I have made my own leaders from scratch and i do revise older tapered leaders. I usuallly start the season out fresh with new leaders according to fly hatches i plan on targetting. and then revise the cut down leaders at later times of the year. If you really want to get persnickety you can purchase line guages for determining precise leader sections. Depending on the water sometimes its not a bad idea.


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## Jfish (Sep 22, 2010)

Alright, the idea of the whip makes a lot of sense to me now. This would probably be the ideal thing for presenting dry flies. Using indicators and nymph fishing can most likely be done without. I caught 2 rainbows and a steelhead yesterday without tapered leaders using indicators. My iphone got soaked but that's besides the point!


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## quack head (Oct 23, 2007)

Jfish said:


> Alright, the idea of the whip makes a lot of sense to me now. This would probably be the ideal thing for presenting dry flies. Using indicators and nymph fishing can most likely be done without. I caught 2 rainbows and a steelhead yesterday without tapered leaders using indicators. My iphone got soaked but that's besides the point!


Any time you have line piled up on it's self you have the potential for tangles and knots. It does not matter if it's dries or sub surface, if it loops up on itself the fly can fall trough a number of loops and cause knotts and tangles. The only exception i.m.o. would be throwing streamers. You generally use shoter stouter line. I use 4 to 5 ft 10lbd maxuim for streammers. I like to really cross there eye and put the screws to'em.


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## Jfish (Sep 22, 2010)

quack head said:


> Any time you have line piled up on it's self you have the potential for tangles and knots. It does not matter if it's dries or sub surface, if it loops up on itself the fly can fall trough a number of loops and cause knotts and tangles. The only exception i.m.o. would be throwing streamers. You generally use shoter stouter line. I use 4 to 5 ft 10lbd maxuim for streammers. I like to really cross there eye and put the screws to'em.


That makes sense about the knots. I've seen it happen.

Okay, so for streamers you're only using a 4 to 5ft leader that is just standard fluro or mono line with a max of 10lb?

Are you using the sinking line with those? Should I get another spool with sinking line for casting streamers?

Thanks


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## turtlehead (Oct 26, 2004)

Jfish said:


> That makes sense about the knots. I've seen it happen.
> 
> Okay, so for streamers you're only using a 4 to 5ft leader that is just standard fluro or mono line with a max of 10lb?
> 
> ...


 That's about what I do for streamers. Most of the time, I use two sections, 20lb and somewhere around 10lb, That way, if I get really hung up, I can break off. 

Ideally, you would have an extra spool with a sink tip or full sinking line, but I do well with a floating line and a heavily weighted streamer on smaller water. For big, deep water, you really should have a sinker.

Also, I use mono for dry fly leaders because it floats, and have gone to flouro for streamers. I've noticed the flies sink a bit faster and seem to get a few inches deeper, which I like. Usually I fish nymphs on my dry fly leader, but I'm thinking about switching over to all flouro.

For those just starting out, I say go with a couple of mono tapered leaders and get a spool of 4x and 5x tippet. Keep it simple.  Once you get a feel for it, you will start to figure out how to tweak your leader setup to fit your style and different situations and then you will end up with dozens of spools of leader material like me.


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## Bull Market (Mar 12, 2005)

Jfish said:


> That makes sense about the knots. I've seen it happen.
> 
> Okay, so for streamers you're only using a 4 to 5ft leader that is just standard fluro or mono line with a max of 10lb?
> 
> ...


Roger That! My favorite is the Scientific Anglers Streamer Express in 200 or 250 grain. It has a 30-foot sinking portion. I build my leader as follows: 1 foot 25# surgeon's loop to 1 foot of 17# surgeon's loop to 1 foot of 12#. I generally run 36 to 40 inch long leader MAX. Reason: The longer the leader, the longer it takes for your sinking fly line to drag the streamer down. With a short leader, the fly gets dragged under nice and quick. And believe me, the fish don't mind a 36-inch leader. It doesn't bother them one bit!


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## CHUCK n BUCK (Apr 6, 2004)

_For those just starting out, I say go with a couple of mono tapered leaders and get a spool of 4x and 5x tippet. Keep it simple._

Thanks.


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## CHUCK n BUCK (Apr 6, 2004)

Thanks for the info everyone! Got my package in the mail yesterday, now its just time to experiment and practice!


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## polarbear78 (Jan 26, 2011)

CHUCK n BUCK said:


> Thanks for the info everyone! Got my package in the mail yesterday, now its just time to experiment and practice!


let us know how you do! and try not to get to frustrated at first with it..


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