# "skipper" steelhead???



## Fishslayer5789 (Mar 1, 2007)

Boozer said:


> Once steelhead spawn, their growth rates stall BIG time, so while Ron makes a good point in some ways, in reality, these are typically not ever going to reach true "trophy" status.
> 
> Trophies tend to be fish which stay out in the lake 3 or more years prior to ever making a run, that's where the big fish come from...
> 
> So if you enjoy the taste of skippers, scientifically, you aren't doing any harm, at least not anymore than you would be by keeping any steelhead...


I always wondered about that. It definately makes complete sense to me. Where did you find this info?


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## Ron Matthews (Aug 10, 2006)

Really?
I'd be interested in that also, I'm not convinced that's the case from what I've seen. Not sayin you wouldn't know or anything, Interested though.

Maybe salt fish-
I know the biggest fish are the oldest, and surely spawned more than once?

A Male I can understand what your saying though, Live fast die hard- Genetically they don't need to be large to successfully reproduce. 
Female can spawn up to 6-7 times under ideal conditions, And significantly grow larger as they mature.
Most winter over females have rounded tails from previous spawn.
skippers are males usually


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## quest32a (Sep 25, 2001)

Ron Matthews said:


> Really?
> I'd be interested in that also, I'm not convinced that's the case from what I've seen. Not sayin you wouldn't know or anything, Interested though.
> 
> Maybe salt fish-
> ...


I read the same thing too Ron. The largest steelhead are normally not repeat spawners but in face fish that lived in the lake for another year, or two. Generally once they spawn once they grow very little. 

But in support of your arguement I am by no means convinced that many of the skippers actually make it to spring to spawn. I think a lot of them may drop back and never really spawn in the spring. Just seems that you get a ton of skippers in the fall, and by spring they have completely vanished. Sure, Ill see a few around beds.... but not as many as I would think. I could be wrong though.


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

quest32a said:


> I read the same thing too Ron. The largest steelhead are normally not repeat spawners but in face fish that lived in the lake for another year, or two. Generally once they spawn once they grow very little.
> 
> But in support of your arguement I am by no means convinced that many of the skippers actually make it to spring to spawn. I think a lot of them may drop back and never really spawn in the spring. Just seems that you get a ton of skippers in the fall, and by spring they have completely vanished. Sure, Ill see a few around beds.... but not as many as I would think. I could be wrong though.


quest, on the 2 points you were making:
1) Yup...
2) Interesting, I think that also sounds correct, but for me, that would be a good question for the bios.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Tom Rozich told me, years ago, that Steelhead don't really get much larger after their initial spawn. He said that the real beauty of repeat spawners, which were almost all hens, was that they spawned multiple times. One fish spawned 6 or 7 times, and was a naturally produced fish in a UP trib.

I also read a study, which was published in STS a long time ago, that showed the largest Steelhead were the fish that spent the most time in their natal rivers before smolting. Sometimes they spent an extra year in the salt - 4 years instead of 3. But the very largest fish didn't smolt until they were up to 7 years old. Granted, that was in B.C., and those rivers are very different from ours. If the fish smolts at 5 pounds, instead of 8 oz., they will be able to take better advantage of the food they find in the ocean, or Great Lake. 

He also told me that, when fish are very stressed in their environment, they will sometimes spawn at an early age. This is a natural reaction to heavy stress (like lack of food), and is designed to make sure the species is kept viable. If the fish might not get enough food to live to their natural maturity, they will mature early, and spawn. That is what happened with the Salmon, and is why so many 2 and 3 year old Salmon spawn, anymore.

The beauty of releasing any Steelhead is that they stand a chance to be caught, and provide additional sport, again. Of course, in rivers which support viable natural reproduction, it also means they might be able to spawn successfully, and produce more gamefish for us. If they are kept, it is guaranteed that they won't be caught again, and won't spawn. I don't see anything objectionable to keeping any Steelhead which are of legal size, if someone wants to keep them. Keeping a lot of Skippers just seems silly, though. Tasty?, sure. But there is more meat in a 10# Steelhead than there is in 8 Skippers. I let most Skippers go when there were tons of fish. Now that there are fewer, I let more of them go.


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## jrv (Nov 11, 2008)

I respect Ron's opinion and everyone else too. My comments earlier were definitely not trying to start up a big debate, but for the average fisherman who may only get out a few times a year, I would say keep a few skippers. Especially since the majority of them seem to be males. I get out a few more times then most, so I usually end up throwing a lot of fish back. But whenever I can get my brother away from work and all his kids, if were lucky enough to catch some fish, we always send a few home with him, skipper or not.


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

Fishndude said:


> Tom Rozich told me, years ago, that Steelhead don't really get much larger after their initial spawn. He said that the real beauty of repeat spawners, which were almost all hens, was that they spawned multiple times. One fish spawned 6 or 7 times, and was a naturally produced fish in a UP trib.
> 
> I also read a study, which was published in STS a long time ago, that showed the largest Steelhead were the fish that spent the most time in their natal rivers before smolting. Sometimes they spent an extra year in the salt - 4 years instead of 3. But the very largest fish didn't smolt until they were up to 7 years old. Granted, that was in B.C., and those rivers are very different from ours. If the fish smolts at 5 pounds, instead of 8 oz., they will be able to take better advantage of the food they find in the ocean, or Great Lake.
> 
> ...


Yup, too. Actually, from what I remember on that, some of the BC smolts were up to 20 inches. Also, regarding repeat spawners on the Great Lakes, there is a wide variation in the percentages of repeaters. While the percentage is pretty high in the Lake Superior watersheds, it is very low for Lake Erie trib steelhead.


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## rieverr (Dec 7, 2010)

QFM does the same as QDM
THINK ABOUT IT


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## Ron Matthews (Aug 10, 2006)

quest32a said:


> I think a lot of them may drop back and never really spawn in the spring. Just seems that you get a ton of skippers in the fall, and by spring they have completely vanished. Sure, Ill see a few around beds.... but not as many as I would think. I could be wrong though.



That's usually what I see also.
Great points- I'll have to dig deeper...



> QFM does the same as QDM
> THINK ABOUT IT
> 
> I remember a study done by Canadian fishery a number of yrs. back where they stopped all fishing in one river for 4 or 5 seasons on the north shore and allowed nearby rivers to remain the same regulations. The study showed that the average size fish after a couple seasons almost doubled in size against the surrounding rivers that were left unchanged.
> ...


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## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

quest32a said:


> I read the same thing too Ron. The largest steelhead are normally not repeat spawners but in face fish that lived in the lake for another year, or two. Generally once they spawn once they grow very little.
> 
> But in support of your arguement I am by no means convinced that many of the skippers actually make it to spring to spawn. I think a lot of them may drop back and never really spawn in the spring. Just seems that you get a ton of skippers in the fall, and by spring they have completely vanished. Sure, Ill see a few around beds.... but not as many as I would think. I could be wrong though.


Same here, I remember reading it and it wasn't just on some forum, it was a research document, will have to try and find it.

It also went into detail in regards to much more likely the females are to surviving the spawn than males, simply put, the males just spend way more time battling and spawning than the females do and tend to wear themselves out too far to ever make it out alive.


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## Ron Matthews (Aug 10, 2006)

http://www.northshoresteelhead.com/project3.htm


Some good info from that site, I was "researching"

Repeat Spawning
There is generally a higher natural mortality in male fish resulting in lower repeat spawning numbers for that gender. Following the end of harvest in 1994, survival to multiple repeat spawning for both sexes has increased (Figures 8 and 9). In Portage Creek, repeat spawning steelhead over nine consecutive years has been documented using tag recaptures. In 2010, 82% of the spawning population were repeat spawners.


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## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

When making decisions on whether or not to keep fish, does it perhaps help to acknowledge whether or not the system is heavily dependent on stocking or capable of natural reproduction? Quite a few of the large west-side rivers wouldn't even support a run of steelhead without the annual stocking efforts of the DNR. Personally, I take very few, if any, fish on a yearly basis but pick and choose what rivers I kill fish on.


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

I do agree also one thing good about discussions like this is it spurs curiousity and investigation. Here is something I found of interest, though the chronology of the study is a bit dated. In essence, for 3 MI rivers (Grand, St. Joe and Huron), the percentage of repeat spawners making up run composition ranged from 15% to 28%. Of this, only 17% of repeat spawning steelhead returned for a third time and on 1% for a 4th

Try page 9 in this document:
http://www.michigandnr.com/PUBLICATIONS/PDFS/ifr/ifrlibra/Research/reports/2003rr.pdf


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## Ron Matthews (Aug 10, 2006)

I kill plenty, Very restrictive on where I do also. But ya not many, usually on accident :sad:
I guess to me it comes down to a slot limit versus 15", Nothing wrong with keeping an average representation sized fish... Hell it whats it about! But harvest can be extreme in "locations" and them skippers are next yrs. fish?
idk- you get a strong yr class finally! and they all walk home?




REG said:


> http://www.michigandnr.com/PUBLICATIONS/PDFS/ifr/ifrlibra/Research/reports/2003rr.pdf



Thanks Reg, Better stuff right there.. My own backyard...

1% for a fourth yr? Ouch -That's what I mean, Be nice to have 3%? it's all about numbers Don't ya think?
Environmental issue in those areas don't help, But Joe should do better than 1% return....


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## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

Ron Matthews said:


> But harvest can be extreme in "locations" and them skippers are next yrs. fish?
> idk- you get a strong yr class finally! and they all walk home?


I have to agree with you on the harvest on some rivers, especially in the fall when the fish are really aggressive. It does seem to effect the quality of the fishing over the winter months when there are no fresh recruits. Personally, I would like to see a change in the bag limit for some of these waters.

As far as eating fish, the "skipper" is certainly a healthier choice in that it has spent less time in Lake Michigan and consumed less prey that has brought pollutants up the food chain.


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## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

Ron Matthews said:


> I kill plenty, Very restrictive on where I do also. But ya not many, usually on accident :sad:
> I guess to me it comes down to a slot limit versus 15", Nothing wrong with keeping an average representation sized fish... Hell it whats it about! But harvest can be extreme in "locations" and them skippers are next yrs. fish?
> idk- you get a strong yr class finally! and they all walk home?
> 
> ...


The Joe has one major disadvantage, DAMS...

The fish that run above Berrien Dam, have a very small chance of ever making it back to the lake alive. Reason being, when these fish descend back down river, they don't use fish ladders, they just follow the strongest current flow and go. This of course typically takes them over the spillways this time of year, they survive just going over one spillway ok sometimes, but if they have to go back down over more than one dam, they just get too beat up according to MDNR, not to mention if they decide to try and go back down through the turbines.

So while the Joe will never be a massive producer of multiple spawning fish, it could be better if the dams were not there, which we all know they are never going anywhere, so just have to live with it...


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

I throw a fair share of skippers back, and never keep a spring caught fish at all. I do keep some steelhead both large and small ones for the table though. When a charter boat can go out three times a day all summer long and catch limits of fish X the number of people on the boat + a mate and captain limit. I do not think that I will hurt the resource by keeping a couple of fish every weekend in the fall or winter that I can get out and fish.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

I have consistantly caught alot of steelhead in the 8 to 13 pound range. About one fish in 300 ever hits or comes close to 14 pounds. Then you are probably looking at one in a thousand steelhead that I have caught ever goes over 14 pounds. My largest was a 17 pounder taken in a river in the fall of the year. I am guessing most of the trophy steelhead are caught out in the great lakes. If that is the case than most river fishermen stand very little chance of ever catching a trophy steelhead.


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## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

I think you would be quite surprised just how few steelhead are caught in Lake Michigan by Charter boats with the exception of skamania strain steelhead, which even then they don't target them all that much. At least in Southern Michigan anyway...

80%-90% of the catch by the charter boats is Salmon I would guess and I bet that would be pretty accurate...


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## Ron Matthews (Aug 10, 2006)

Boozer said:


> I don't know about living with it?
> But ya your Right!
> If it was important enough to the officials you could net off the turbines and collect drop-backs for transporting below hydro facilities in order to increase repeat spawners, If it was important? There's solutions, just no concern for the benefits.....
> 
> ...


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