# Michigan Rattlesnake



## huntfishlive (Sep 20, 2006)

Just wondering if anyone had heard or seen this one, just got it via e-mail. Just curious.







THEY GROW 'EM BIG IN MICHIGAN !!!

This snake was recently found at the old Turkey Creek COAL plant
located just south of the St. Charles on Highway ! M-52North 
of Chesaning , Michigan.
[THAT'S JUST 20 miles NORTH OF Owosso]










9 feet, 1 inch - 97 lbs.


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## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

I can't see your pic but by judging by the info you put in the post it is a fake. It's been on here numerous times and I think there was even a thread on it last week.

Check out this link for the real story (if it's the same pic you're referencing)

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/txsnake.asp


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

The ONLY poisonous snake in Michigan is the Massassauga Rattle Snake, and the largest units get just over 30 inches in length, and weigh probably a pound or less. I could not see the picture, but that snake was not from MI.


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## huntfishlive (Sep 20, 2006)

thanks Radar420, just curious on the pic. thanks for clearing it up.


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## trout (Jan 17, 2000)

Snakes are venomous not poisonous.

Many different species will bite, but only the Massassauga Rattle Snake is considered our native venomous snake.


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## MERGANZER (Aug 24, 2006)

The only rattlesnake here is massasauga and they are small that photo has been all over the net I beleive it is really from Texas 

Ganzer


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

MERGANZER said:


> The only rattlesnake here is massasauga and they are small that photo has been all over the net I beleive it is really from Texas
> 
> Ganzer


If it's the one I'm thinking...it's from there somewhere. It's a Western Diamondback.


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## MI_Bowhunter (Feb 5, 2005)

I would have to agree that that is a Texas snake, I have seen them that big when I lived there. The only one I have seen in Michigan was near Irons about 10 years ago, about 6" long.


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## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

trout said:


> Snakes are venomous not poisonous.
> 
> Many different species will bite, but only the Massassauga Rattle Snake is considered our native venomous snake.


Yes, it's their venom that is poisonous.


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## dyemen (Feb 20, 2005)

I have seen 1 MI rattlesnake.....last fall while driving around some state land....somebody had ran over it's head! Here are the pictures!



















Dave


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## GIBBY74 (Feb 9, 2004)

dyemen said:


> I have seen 1 MI rattlesnake.....last fall while driving around some state land....somebody had ran over it's head! Here are the pictures!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I too have seen many like these by the White Cloud area.


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## FishMichv2 (Oct 18, 2004)

Oldgrandman said:


> Yes, it's their venom that is poisonous.


trout was correct, there are no "poisonous" snakes, a snakes venom is just saliva, there is no poison.


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## FishMichv2 (Oct 18, 2004)

dyemen said:


> I have seen 1 MI rattlesnake.....last fall while driving around some state land....somebody had ran over it's head! Here are the pictures!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that is indeed a shame, ive looked for them my whole life and only found very few. im currently working on getting my permit to own and hopefully breed them.


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

FishMichv2 said:


> trout was correct, there are no "poisonous" snakes, a snakes venom is just saliva, there is no poison.


Well if we want to get REALLY technical... 

Venom is not "just" saliva, it is highly modified saliva that evolved over a long period of time. What separates venom from poison is method of intake. A venom is a biologic toxin that is injected while a poison is a toxin that is absorbed (through the skin or ingested). Even many books (and nature shows) incorrectly say a snake is poisonous. Many also incorrectly say the antidote for a snakebite is antivenom...:lol:

And what's a shame about that massasauga is that someone probably did it on purpose.


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

> that is indeed a shame, ive looked for them my whole life and only found very few. im currently working on getting my permit to own and hopefully breed them


Sorry, but there are so many crude responses to that one:lol: :lol: :lol: ........OK just one.............how do you hold them still


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## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

FishMichv2 said:


> trout was correct, there are no "poisonous" snakes, a snakes venom is just saliva, there is no poison.


So their saliva has venom and is poisonous.... Grab a dictonary and look up the word venom. Quote "the poison secreted by some snakes" end quote  
Think about it, if it ain't poisonous how come it can make you sick or kill you?
_EDIT: BTW, Trout is still correct, the snake it's self isn't poisonous, I believe people eat rattlesnake._


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

OGM...poison and venom both describe toxins but what differentiates them is the manner they are introduced into an organism. When this toxin is injected, it is known as venom. When it is absorbed or ingested, it is poison. Therefore, unless a snakes venom is harmful by absorbsion or ingestion, its not poisonous. A good example is the spitting cobra. It spits it's venom at the eyes where it is absorbed and can cause blindness. Snake venoms are also proteins and many (I don't know if all) can be ingested with no ill effects unless you have an ulcer or other way it can get into the bloodstream before it's digested. In this case it would be poison. Kinda confusing but to KISS...poison=absorbsion or ingestion; venom=injected. BTW, I ate rattlesnake when I was stationed in Georgia and it's actually pretty good.


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## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

M1Garand said:


> OGM...poison and venom both describe toxins but what differentiates them is the manner they are introduced into an organism. When this toxin is injected, it is known as venom. When it is absorbed or ingested, it is poison. Therefore, unless a snakes venom is harmful by absorbsion or ingestion, its not poisonous. A good example is the spitting cobra. It spits it's venom at the eyes where it is absorbed and can cause blindness. Snake venoms are also proteins and many (I don't know if all) can be ingested with no ill effects unless you have an ulcer or other way it can get into the bloodstream before it's digested. In this case it would be poison. Kinda confusing but to KISS...poison=absorbsion or ingestion; venom=injected. BTW, I ate rattlesnake when I was stationed in Georgia and it's actually pretty good.


.....so Websters is wrong? The venom of a snake is not poison?! It also states poison is "introduced into the body of the victim by bite or sting".
You absorb venom from a bite, whats the problem here?.

I didn't try to start a peeing match, was initially trying to agree with someone. I'll let it go now.


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## NSD (Jan 14, 2004)

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h270/nsdude/hunting/rattler.jpg
This was taken by a MS member several years ago. I think it was STEVE. If I remember correctly it was in the proud lake state rec area during stockerfest.


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

Oldgrandman said:


> .....so Websters is wrong? The venom of a snake is not poison?! It also states poison is "introduced into the body of the victim by bite or sting".
> You absorb venom from a bite, whats the problem here?.
> 
> I didn't try to start a peeing match, was initially trying to agree with someone. I'll let it go now.


Nope not a match ..I always enjoy talking about scientific stuff. I can't comment on Websters, I'll leave that one to the experts. Venom is not absorbed from a bite (or sting), it's injected via breaking the skin. Absorbed would be if you got a toxin on you and it got into your bloodstream without breaking the skin or membrane. It can be confusing, that's for sure. For instance, if you have no ulcers or other breaks in your digestive tract, you can drink snake venom and it won't harm you (and is therefore not poisonous). But if you do and it gets in your bloodstream, it is then poisonous. Here's a few links that may explain it better (or prove me wrong..:lol :

Venom

Poison


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## FishMichv2 (Oct 18, 2004)

M1 explained the venom/poison thing pretty well. a good comparison he made was the misuse of the word antivenom versus the proper word antivenin. its a very easy mistake to make as is the use of venom and poison.


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## seips (Dec 20, 2005)

Oh yeah well my dad can beat up your dad........no just kidding thanks for the explaination guys I had no idea there was a difference.


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## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

OK, I got nothing better going on right now.
The following is pasted from the 'venom' link provided....

Again just so it is understood, this is pasted in from the 'venom' link M1Garand provided, underlined below...

*Venom* or *zootoxin* (literally, poison of animal origin)

....So venom is poison, now what is it are your trying to say?

Websters is a dictionary, it explains the meaning of words. Anyone can open one and read it, you do not need to be an expert. It is known about by most of the civilized world. Pick one up it is useful.

If your own link jives with the definition given by Websters, I do not get your point. I guess must be missing something  . 

Is this some kind of hazing cause I just became a sponser or something  ?!


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

Yep, it can be confusing, esp with the different word usages. 



FishMichv2 said:


> M1 explained the venom/poison thing pretty well. a good comparison he made was the misuse of the word antivenom versus the proper word antivenin. its a very easy mistake to make as is the use of venom and poison.


Hey now..:lol: I said many incorrectly use the word antivenom..


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## FishMichv2 (Oct 18, 2004)

in all reality, its really not that big of a deal unless you work in herpetology or toxicology. the use of the word poison at any herp convention or something along those lines is a no no, but for the most part its no big deal. in the event of a venomous snake bite, you have been envenomated, not poisoned. tough to explain but thats just the way science differentiates between different ways these substances are used. i believe the word toxin is used for plants. ive kept snakes for years but it wasnt until i started dealing with venomous snakes that i stopped using the word poisonous. always used to think they were interchangable.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Now that we have exhausted the poisonous vs venomous debate, that snake could not be from MI, right? 

Are any of the debaters in this post expected to actually produce anything at your jobs?


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## FishMichv2 (Oct 18, 2004)

Fishndude said:


> Now that we have exhausted the poisonous vs venomous debate, that snake could not be from MI, right?
> 
> Are any of the debaters in this post expected to actually produce anything at your jobs?


no, the snake could not be from michigan, unless it was an escaped pet. its a western diamondback(crotalus atrox), probably around 5 feet and less than 10 pounds.


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## benjui567 (Feb 9, 2007)

but I can not confirm it that there have been rattlers that have road in the pipes from oil rigs to michigan and that they have somehow adapted to michigan climit. Not sure if it is true but that is what I have heard.


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