# BE WARNED**Meuller Customer Service**



## rcdan-o (Nov 13, 2004)

There supposed lifetime warranty ???, see the below and ask yourself how you would react?

Hello, 

I have one of your scopes on my rifle and it is your model 4.5-14 x 40 APV. This scope was bought new from a sponsor on the Michigan Sportsman forums, I cannot find the box nor the receipt for the sale.I bought this scope at the end of the season last year and just shot the rifle less then 10 rounds to get it sighted in. Well fast forward to the current and the objective on the front of the scope is frozen and I have tired to get it to move by being gentle yet firm to get it to move with no luck it just unscrews itself ???? 

I am really disappointed with the season so close and because this model came so highly recommended from the reviews online. I am hoping that you can help me.
___________________________________________________________________
Hi,
We just wanted to let you know your returned Mueller APV scope arrived and we evaluated the issue you were having with it.. As you can see from the attached photos, something was scraping the objective and hard enough that it actually started peeling and stripping part of the aluminum off the backside of the Adjustable Objective.. Whatever was causing this damage was also applying so much pressure that it bent the front objective too, hence the reason it wouldnt turn.. It almost appears as thought it may have been hitting a front iron sight or something but without seeing it, we can only assume that.. I'm not sure how this damage went un-noticed because as you can see from the pictures it is very evident damage... Our Warranty does cover manufactures defects but unfortunately it does not cover damage caused by the end user, which is the case here.. If it didn't bend the front objective we could of just replaced the rar objective ring but since it actually bent the front objective it cannot be repaired... However, we do understand accidents can happen and we try to support our customers by offering them a trade-in value so you wouldn't have to buy a new one at full price.. Your cost on a replacement if you wanted to trade-in your damaged scope would only be $80.00 plus the $12 you already included.

Please let us know
Thanks
Dave
Mueller Optics
____________________________________________________________
Dave, 

Good Morning, those Marks are from it coming off and tryin to reattach the objective ( glass, spring, grease and all ) for what ever reason as I said before the objective would turn very hard and would only turn one way. Then whatever defect there was, I passed the stop that was on the scope tube. I then got it to thread back on, and what you see is how I left it. Again this NOT due to mis-use , NOT dropped , NOT abused , like I said literally 10 rounds thru the gun and put in the safe... then I go to check it and get ready to shoot for this season and I find this. In fact I am second guessing if I ever moved this objective off from the 50 yard mark as that is where I sighted in at.(until this fall) 

I am in Manufacturing, and this is a defect , whether you rate it as that or not. 

I am not satisfied with this response of $80 for a exchange. I could have bought a competitiors scope for less than your cost and gotten many years of use of it. 



______________________________________________________________
 

Hey ,
I apologize for the inconvenience, but we can not warranty something that has damage caused by the end user. If their was a problem with the scope, from the beginning it should have been returned immediately and not tampered with.. It looks like someone put as pair of channel locks on this thing.. It cannot be considered a defect when their is visual damage effecting the over all performance of the scope. The scope may have been repairable before the AO was damaged, but unfortunately it now has to be replaced. I understand your frustration, but we cannot warranty a scope with such damage. We do offer a trade in program, we take your damaged scope in on trade in exchange for a new scope at our cost. The total cost will be $78.00 including your $12 for return shipping.

I am sorry, we get countless interactions involving customers claiming a scope was bad or defective before the fact that the outside of the scope has obvious damaged caused by the end user, which in-turn effected the overall performance of the scope. These such damages are not covered under our limited lifetime warranty.

Thank You

Dave Bourdlaies
Mueller Optics
[email protected]
1-888-775-8885

__________________________________________________________

Please send the scope back as is , Good luck in the future for customers. THIS IS NOT a Threat just a confirmation of my frustration with your company and the $135 I spent on a scope that I NEVER got to hunt with and sharing that with those that referred me to your company. 

This was not neglect nor anything that you are stating, none of this should have ever been an issue. What would have caused this to happen in the first place? Think about that real hard before you respond. FOR every action there is a REACTION. 

___________________________________________________________________________________


I mean, really, I am not a jerk, just a guy that spent $135 on a scope to find that after sitting for 5 months or so in my safe. 

LESSON LEARNED...


----------



## GrtWhtHntr (Dec 2, 2003)

I've always heard good things about their customer service. That's too bad they're screwing you over. I would have to say though, that you get what you pay for. It's usually cheaper to spend the money and get good quality the first time around.


----------



## wecker20 (Mar 10, 2004)

I could see being upset but I kinda have to lean toward Mullers look on it. If it were damaged by the user, that's where they have to draw the line or they'd be losing money. Lesson learned, if there's an issue with it, send it back. I know, try to fix it now so you can shoot, but then your out whatever money you are if it isn't fixed. I'd take the return deal.


----------



## uptracker (Jul 27, 2004)

Yup.....lesson learned there. I don't know why so many people speak so highly of those scopes anyways....it's not much more than a Bushnell Trophy IMO. Buy Leupold from here on out and you'll never have another issue. Even Burris is really good about repairs etc....so they are an option and it's pretty good glass. Personally, I won't buy anything other than Leupold though.....doesn't have to be a $600 VX-3 either.

My first scope was a Burris Fullfield 3-9x40 that I bought in 1998. I steered clear of all the cheap scopes right from the get go. That scope gave up the ghost in 2003 and I sent it back. I received the scope back within 4 weeks. They readjusted the paralax, gave it a shot of nitrogen and sent it on it's way free of charge.....that scope is still used today...it's on my .17 Remington.


----------



## rcdan-o (Nov 13, 2004)

It really is frustrating as I am not scammer nor did I do anything wrong , Just keeping everyone informed as this came so highly recommended on this forum.

I have had a simmons 8 point scope on my slug gun for over 4 years and it still holds center great. that scope costed me $45 from cabela's on a bargin basement deal.


----------



## Michihunter (Jan 8, 2003)

Thanks for the heads up. I agree with you that the response was less than satisfying. And I also agree that they should honor the warranty. I'll make sure to cross them off my list of prospective scope mfg's as a result of this post. Thank you.


----------



## wecker20 (Mar 10, 2004)

I hear ya man, it's frustrating.


----------



## Mueller Optics (May 10, 2004)

How can you expect us to warranty a scope that looks like this? It looks like someone took a pair of channels locks to it.. It should NEVER of been tampered with. We cover our scopes but not when the end user damages them.. Its not only gouged up from whatever was used, it also bent.


----------



## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

I can understand that they won't cover it since it does not look to be a defect. However, the example below is how the top tier companies handle such things........
This is why I stick with Leupold for almost all of my optics purchases. A friend bent his Leupold VXIII on a hunt out west. Wasn't Leupolds fault, yet they made sure they made another lifelong customer by replacing it asap. I'll spend the money up front thank you. I've also had great luck with Burris products and their customer service as well. 

Sorry about your luck, hopefully you get it up and running soon!


----------



## Michihunter (Jan 8, 2003)

Mueller Optics said:


> How can you expect us to warranty a scope that looks like this? It looks like someone took a pair of channels locks to it.. It should NEVER of been tampered with. We cover our scopes but not when the end user damages them.. Its not only gouged up from whatever was used, it also bent.


The explanation for said damage was due to a defect as was carefully stated by the customer. Most people are willing to try and fix something themselves and avoid passing on to the mfg needless warranty costs. The attempt to save you money should be considered when making these decisions. Obviously you feel otherwise and as such have denied full replacement. Fair enough but don't expect to win any customers over with these types of decisions.


----------



## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

I guess I have to lean towards Muellers side on this one. The O.P. doesn't have the box or the receipt and gundged up the scope so it's irreparable. For all the manufacturer knows he got it out of a dumpster. It's not covered by warranty yet they offer him a $50 discount on a replacement. And they are the bad guys here? It was a $135 scope to begin with. You pay $600 for a Leupold and I can see why you might expect them to go above and beyond the stated warranty but $135? Geez, come on here, let's try and nickle & dime a small company to death. 

If I damage a product I buy, then why should the manufacturer take the hit? Sorry, that's ridiculous. I'll take responsibility for my own mistakes instead of trying to get someone else to take care of it. 

IMHO, at their price point Mueller makes a decent scope, a heck of a lot better then Simmons or TASCO or Barska or low end Bushnells that compare in price. I own a wide variety of scopes including Muellers as well as Leupolds and other high end scopes. You won't find another decent scope with an illuminated reticle that is comparably priced to Mueller. For certain applications, I'd have no problem buying another Mueller in a heart beat.


----------



## rcdan-o (Nov 13, 2004)

Michihunter said:


> The explanation for said damage was due to a defect as was carefully stated by the customer. Most people are willing to try and fix something themselves and avoid passing on to the mfg needless warranty costs. The attempt to save you money should be considered when making these decisions. Obviously you feel otherwise and as such have denied full replacement. Fair enough but don't expect to win any customers over with these types of decisions.


 
My enitre case and Point of this thread. And the exact words I should have used to try and even further state my case for its exchange.



What is _interesting_ is that my hands must be stronger then channel locks as that burring on the edge is from the stop that stands proud on the scope tube. This stand off is there for an end point , that is what gouged the trailing edge of the objective when trying to reassemble it NOT CHANNEL LOCKS. 

PLEASE Let this not turn into an arguing with a manufacturer, rather than suggestions for future customers thread. THX


----------



## commonsense (Oct 26, 2009)

Reassemble it? You took the objective completely off? And you called the manufacturer out by starting this thread. I like others I am sure, are just trying to understand both sides.


----------



## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

Munsterlndr said:


> I guess I have to lean towards Muellers side on this one. The O.P. doesn't have the box or the receipt and gundged up the scope so it's irreparable. For all the manufacturer knows he got it out of a dumpster. It's not covered by warranty yet they offer him a $50 discount on a replacement. And they are the bad guys here? It was a $135 scope to begin with. You pay $600 for a Leupold and I can see why you might expect them to go above and beyond the stated warranty but $135? Geez, come on here, let's try and nickle & dime a small company to death.
> 
> If I damage a product I buy, then why should the manufacturer take the hit? Sorry, that's ridiculous. I'll take responsibility for my own mistakes instead of trying to get someone else to take care of it.
> 
> IMHO, at their price point Mueller makes a decent scope, a heck of a lot better then Simmons or TASCO or Barska or low end Bushnells that compare in price. I own a wide variety of scopes including Muellers as well as Leupolds and other high end scopes. You won't find another decent scope with an illuminated reticle that is comparably priced to Mueller. For certain applications, I'd have no problem buying another Mueller in a heart beat.


Couldn't have said it any better.


----------



## Michihunter (Jan 8, 2003)

rcdan-o said:


> What is _interesting_ is that my hands must be stronger then channel locks as that burring on the edge is from the stop that stands proud on the scope tube. This stand off is there for an end point , that is what gouged the trailing edge of the objective when trying to reassemble it NOT CHANNEL LOCKS.



Looks plain as day to me as to what caused the damage. Anyone that has experience with this scope could plainly see that what you have stated is exactly the case. The only question remaining is- was the objective turned down past the stop prior to you receiving it or after. Either way I would assume that most mfg's take a customers word for what happened.


----------



## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Munsterlndr said:


> . You pay $600 for a Leupold and I can see why you might expect them to go above and beyond the stated warranty but $135? .



I bet if you spent $200 on Leupold, they'd give you the same customer service as if you spent $600. Heck, Bushnell replaced a Trophy shotgun scope after the reticles broke 3 years after purchase. I had no box, no receipt etc, they just replaced it. I think that scope cost me $140 at the time. Were the broken reticles a manufacturing defect or did I beat the snot out of it? Bushnell didn't ask, nor did they assume, they just sent me a new one. It's also one on the reasons I no longer purchase bargain glass, but do and will continue to buy Bushnells Elite series stuff, based on both performance and my customer service experience. I'm still partial to Leupold, with Burris and Bushnell Elite a close second. 

Again, I can understand why Mueller won't, they certainly don't have to.

I will agree with Munster though, they are certainly a step up from Tasco, Simmons, and Barska, but....they certainly should be!!


----------



## rcdan-o (Nov 13, 2004)

Michihunter,

You are dead on with your assumptions and it is how you said. 

Again I am not trying to turn this into Mueller HATE thread, just an example of a Lifetime warranty that means nothing.

For those with the calling out type responses, how would you play Monday morning quarterback?


----------



## Rootsy (Nov 1, 2006)

Lifetime warranty can mean different things... I guess we must understand that... 

If the warranty is against defects in workmanship and materials that leaves it open to suggestion with regard to user initiated damage... 

If on the other hand (such as Leupold, etc) it is an *unconditional* lifetime warranty... that is something entirely different... 

You get what you pay for.. Much of the price of the "high" end optics comes from the warranty... 

If you purchase through a distributor such as SWFA they can be a good aid in some instances...


----------



## GuppyII (Sep 14, 2008)

I agree with the company. I had a 2-7 that fogged up, it was an early 2 piece design. Had shot it in september and was fine pulled it out the week before the opener to load up for the trip to camp and noticed it. Called them up immediatly and sent the next day to them and had the new one two days later in time to sight in and head up. I own three of these and have no complaints. Yes you get whay you pay for and I have Leupold and Nikon optics as well, but they have a decent product and I will encourage others to buy them over other brands in the price range. Yes, you had a bad experience with them and I would be upset also but, if I was in thier shoes I would probably agree with them.


----------



## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

rcdan-o said:


> Again I am not trying to turn this into Mueller HATE thread, just an example of a Lifetime warranty that means nothing.


It appears that you expect an unlimited lifetime warranty where the product will be replaced regardless of what is done to it. If that is what you are looking for, maybe you should shop for the product based on what type of warranty is offered. A quick look at the Mueller website pretty clearly shows what is and is not covered by the warranty that they offer and what you could reasonably expect to be covered. I would not say that their warranty means nothing, just that it is limited, as are almost all warranties. 

LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY
If at any time during the warranty period a Mueller scope is found to have a defect in material or workmanship, Mueller will, at our discretion, repair or replace it free of charge. The warranty is void if damage results from unauthorized repair, alteration, abuse or misuse. The warranty is transferable and we do not require a registration card to be completed, we only require a copy of the original receipt, which must be from an authorized Mueller Optics dealer. Please be sure when transferring the Scope to another user that a copy of the receipt is also transferred. Mueller reserves the right to replace any product, which has been discontinued from its product line with a new product of comparable value and function. This warranty shall be void if and no force of effect if an Mueller warranty inspector has determined the Mueller product has been abused, misused, mishandled or tampered with in anyway whatsoever.

In the situation described, the OP was both lacking an original sales receipt, the proof of purchase required for the warranty to be applicable and it certainly appeared that the product had been abused and mishandled. Again, it was a $135 scope and they offered you a pretty good discount on a replacement. I'm having a hard time faulting the company for their actions in this case.


----------

