# 7mm08or 308



## Ralphy (Apr 4, 2009)

Hey guys I have a 7 mag that to me is just a bit to big for me so I'm thinking of down sizing to something more recoil friendly. Leaning towards the 7 mm. So what do you think. I'll be buying a left handed bolt like my current Remington. One more question Remington or Savage . I like the looks and feel of the Remington by far but I have a savage also that is very accurate. I appreciate any and all input.


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## mwakely (Jan 7, 2004)

You will get a lot of opinions but if ya want a decent made gun that doesn't recoil go to the 7mm-08 and the Savage. You will be pleased.


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

7mm-08 is a great caliber for Michigan Whitetail. Slightly more recoil friendly then .308 

.260 Remington is even more recoil friendly, same case just necked down to .264

I've got both and they are both great deer cartridges.

Both Remington and savage make decent rifles , no particular preference. I'd also be looking at a Ruger Hawkeye in .257 Roberts or 7mm-08 or a Tikka T3 compact in .260 Rem or 7mm-08, both would be ideal deer rifles.


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## old professor (Oct 26, 2008)

I agree that the 7mm08 is slightly more recoil friendly than the 308. I have and hunt alot with a Rem Model 7 in 260 Rem. It is a real good deer killer, especially with 125 gr Nosler Partitions. I have severe sholder problems and the 260 has very light recoil.


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## jmoser (Sep 11, 2002)

7-08 less kick and more than enough for deer, .308 far more versatile and one of the best all around cartridges ever. Cannot go wrong with either one as a deer gun.


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## wadevb1 (Mar 25, 2008)

jmoser said:


> Cannot go wrong with either one as a deer gun.


Exactly. Deer can't distinguish between the two.


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## fishnpbr (Dec 2, 2007)

I love my .308. You can find ammo anywhere, maybe more so than the 7mm08.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Its a .308 for me.


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## woodie slayer (Feb 25, 2006)

i used a .308 remington 742 for 35 years .great gun for deer.
i recently bought a 7mm-08 barrel for my t/c pro hunter.mounted a leupold scope an have been shooting it a little each week this summer. hardly any recoil and one of the most accurate rifles i own..the only down side is cost of shells .the federal premium that i shoot are 39 bucks a box the 308 shells are a lot cheaper:sad:


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## Macker13 (Oct 1, 2007)

Have a couple of the 7-08's, real happy with the performance from both of them. I am also shooting Federal Premiums in them.


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## whitetailmonster (May 13, 2009)

7mm-08 is a sweet one.

Also look into the managed recoil remington ammo that is what i used when i was 14 for my 7mm mag. Also you might want to look into limbsaver butt pads or a muzzle brreak??? Depending on how much you like your gun already you can spend less and make it work for you.


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## Ralphy (Apr 4, 2009)

That is a good idea whitetail monster I never really gave that much thought. The only bad thing is that the 7 mag has a longer barell and is pretty heavy after a day in the woods, so also would'nt mind getting the weight down as my legs don't get along very good due to my back condition. As a matter of a fact when I get a deer I can't even drag them out anymore, have to get my son or buddys to get it for me. That alone is a hard pill to swallow. There are however worse things as I can still shuffle out to the woods and enjoy the great outdoors


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## Enigma (Jan 30, 2006)

Unless you have some kind of problem with your body or over the age 60 years old.I cant beleave you guys are crying about the kick of a rifle like a 308 or 3006.And what to go even even lighter


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## whitetailmonster (May 13, 2009)

Enigma said:


> Unless you have some kind of problem with your body or over the age 60 years old.I cant beleave you guys are crying about the kick of a rifle like a 308 or 3006.And what to go even even lighter


well you obviously don't know what anyones condition is so you assume the worst and give good advice not make fun of them for saying a gun has too much kick.


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## GrtWhtHntr (Dec 2, 2003)

From what I've seen in the stores, the 7-08 ammo seems to be higher priced than the standard calibers, like the .308. I hunt with a .308 Savage and really like it. I'm recoil shy and don't have any problems with it at all. I did put a Sims recoil pad on it and can honestly say it kicks the same, or possibly slightly less than my .243 Savage that doesn't have a pad on it. Reduced recoil ammo is also available in .308 if you wanted even more relief.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

Enigma said:


> Unless you have some kind of problem with your body or over the age 60 years old.I cant beleave you guys are crying about the kick of a rifle like a 308 or 3006.And what to go even even lighter


 
Every individaual shooter perceives & handles recoil differently. If the OP dosen't enjoy shooting his 7mm Magnum- so be it. He is doing exactly what he should, which is to find a round that *he *can *comfortably* practice with and therefore have confidence when he goes after game.

My .02- both are great rounds for medium sized game. For me the only way I would consider the 7/08 would be as a handloader, as factory ammo seems to make volume shooting cost prohibitive.


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## Violator22 (Nov 10, 2004)

7mm-08 is my answer to the complete North American game rifle, only thing I would not use it on is Grizzly/Brown Bear. It will do the job on anything else, from Moose on down. Probably one of the most recoil friendly calibers out there. Les


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

Enigma said:


> Unless you have some kind of problem with your body or over the age 60 years old.I cant beleave you guys are crying about the kick of a rifle like a 308 or 3006.And what to go even even lighter


If your the kind of guy who goes through less then a box of shells a year, then recoil really does not matter much. If you handload and go through 50 or 100 rounds per session and 300+ rounds a year per rifle and are interested in precise shooting, then recoil can play a significant role. Sitting at a bench and shooting 50-100 rounds of '06 is not particularly fun and the potential for developing a flinch is pretty good. Spending an afternoon shooting 100 rounds of .243 or .250 savage, for example, is a much, much more enjoyable experience and your groups are likely to be substantially better with the low recoiling, small caliber rifles. I own rifles in almost a dozen calibers and the ones that consistently get range time tend to be in the .243 to 7mm-08 range. I don't think my '06 has left the rack since the last time I went to Wyoming, which was almost ten years ago. I figured out a long time ago that getting a bruised shoulder was more an exercise in stupidity then proof of machismo.


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## Hoppe's no.10 (Sep 16, 2007)

For starters any MI deer/bear etc. that you hopefully kill will never notice the difference between .308 Winchester and a 7mm/08 Remington. Recoil will be a bit of a wash given the same rifle weight/stock configuration etc. If you handload the 7mm/08 is probably a bit more versatile. If you don't I suspect .308 Winchester ammo is a bit easier to come by in out of the way places. But if you practice/target shoot a lot - like hundreds and hundreds of rounds on a monthly/semi-monthly basis then go with the .308 - lots and lots of relatively cheap quasi-military hardball ammo out there. 

The going deer bullet,these days, for a .30 caliber seems to be 165 gr. while the going bullet weight for a 7mm for deer seems to be 139/140gr. It's been my experience that the heavier the bullet the greater the "felt" recoil although I can't imagine there's much difference - velocity excluded - between a 140 gr. 7mm and a 165 gr. .308 - kind of like adding a .22 rimfire bullet along for the ride.

In my opinion "7mm/08" is really a stupid nomenclature for a cartridge as it combines metric measurements with a "pet" name as opposed to ".308" which is a true English measurement - things like this mean a lot to me but admittedly for no pragmatic purpose but nonetheless.... . Just my opinion and of course it has no relevance to killing effectiveness.*

Hope this helps

Hoppe's no.10

*Except of course when Obama's "black helicopters" start rappelling gun-grabbing thugs over Clarkston then .308 NATO/Winchester will be a lot easier to come by rather than the "semi-botique" 7mm/08 Remington. Just something to think about. Personally I'd go with the .308. No real downsides - imagined or otherwise - to that popular cartridge.


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## harpo1 (Dec 6, 2007)

I own a Weatherby 7mm-08 bolt action and love it. I was also deciding between that gun and the 308. The recoil is quite minimal and the gun shoots phenominally accurate both short and long range. I use 139gr Remington Corelocks and the deer drop in there tracks regardless of what angle I hit them. The thing I like about the 7-08 is that I can hunt deer all day long with that gun..... but I can also hand it to my 110 pound wife and she has no problem shooting it either.

I have a few friends that shoot 308's and they seem to be a very nice caliber, but do kick just a little more than the 7-08. My vote goes to the 7mm-08.


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## jmoser (Sep 11, 2002)

Hoppe's no.10 said:


> The going deer bullet,these days, for a .30 caliber seems to be 165 gr. while the going bullet weight for a 7mm for deer seems to be 139/140gr. It's been my experience that the heavier the bullet the greater the "felt" recoil although I can't imagine there's much difference - velocity excluded - between a 140 gr. 7mm and a 165 gr. .308 - kind of like adding a .22 rimfire bullet along for the ride.
> 
> *Heavier bullets can dramatically increase peak pressures; that determines felt recoil as the pressure vs case head area yields recoil force in lbs. Try a .300 mag with 165s vs 200s if you doubt it!*
> 
> ...


Hope this helps!


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## Hoppe's no.10 (Sep 16, 2007)

jmoser said:


> Hope this helps!


*Heavier bullets can dramatically increase peak pressures; that determines felt recoil as the pressure vs case head area yields recoil force in lbs. Try a .300 mag with 165s vs 200s if you doubt it!*

Agree with you that as bullet weight increases so does recoil energy but incrementally not dramatically. Pulled this off another site (http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm.) The middle column is "recoil energy" of a 150gr. and 180 gr. bullet from a .308 Winchester cartridge. Difference of 1.7 foot pounds of energy.


*.308 Win. (150 at 2800) 7.5 15.8 11.7 

.308 Win. (180 at 2610) 8.0 17.5 11.9*

Have never been overly enthusiastic at how many American manufacturers choose to name their cartridges. The .308 Winchester case has of course been necked up and down from .243 to .358 and simply called ".358 Winchester" or whatever. It just seems rather silly to me that Remington would turn ".308" into "08" as sort of a suffix to 7mm. They didn't do it with their 6.5mm cartridge (.308 Winchester case necked down to .264/6.5 mm) that they named .260 Remington instead of "6.5mm/08" which would have been even more of an abomination than 7mm/08. This discourse of mine, of course, has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the 7mm/08 in the field which I suppose is pretty good.

Hope this helps

Hoppe's no.10

*Somewhere I have the formula for determining recoil energy in ft.lbs. based on rifle weight (including cartridge case/primer which obviously is left behind), weight of "ejecta" (bullet and powder) and bullet velocity. It's quite involved but if I get a chance I'll try and come up with the recoil energy of a 7mm 139 gr. bullet vs. a 165 gr. .30 caliber bullet at normal hunting velocities.


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## whitetailmonster (May 13, 2009)

It seems like there is a big difference in recoil just between 140 gr and 160 in my 7mm mag. Lighter always kicks less.


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## jmoser (Sep 11, 2002)

Calculated [actual] and perceived [felt] recoil are very different animals - its a 'non-linear' increase as far as your shoulder is concerned. Once you cross the threshold even small increases in recoil feel VERY unpleasant. It is physiology - not physics.

The published recoil formulas and tables are a good start but ultimately recoil is the eye [or shoulder] of the beholder!


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## PA BUCK 2 (Oct 17, 2006)

Whitetails or other big game around these parts will not notice a difference between the two. As far as which rifle- get the one that feels/fits you best. If you like the Remington feel- get it and never look back.

I have a .308 in Win M70 featherweight. Nice rifle and shoots well and has killed A LOT of deer.


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## icemancometh (Feb 1, 2007)

Enigma,

What's that guy standing by your shack think about the kick of your rifle? Seeing as he always seems to appear right after you shoot a 50 pound doe he should be able to offer some input shouldn't he?


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## hunt-n-fool (Oct 10, 2006)

get a 270 and handload it with 130gr nosler partitions, I did that after lung surgery, hardly any recoil at 2500fps ! shot a deer, blew thru both shoulders at 75 yards with that load. Deer dropped right there, both front legs were broken, and the top of the heart was mush too.


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

Hoppe's no.10 said:


> It just seems rather silly to me that Remington would turn ".308" into "08" as sort of a suffix to 7mm. They didn't do it with their 6.5mm cartridge (.308 Winchester case necked down to .264/6.5 mm) that they named .260 Remington instead of "6.5mm/08" which would have been even more of an abomination than 7mm/08.


When Remington decided to commercially produce a .284 variant based on the .308 case, they already manufactured a commercial cartridge called the .280 Remington, so they had to come up with some other nomenclature to identify the cartridge. To further confuse things there was already a .280 winchester case being produced based on a necked down 06' case. They also had already used 7mm in their 7mm Remington magnum designation. 7mm-08 gets the point across pretty well, a .28 caliber cartridge based on the .308 case. 

Still waiting for a commercially produced .25 caliber, .308 variant. I'm partial to .25's and it would be a great deer round.


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## Hoppe's no.10 (Sep 16, 2007)

Munsterlndr said:


> When Remington decided to commercially produce a .284 variant based on the .308 case, they already manufactured a commercial cartridge called the .280 Remington, so they had to come up with some other nomenclature to identify the cartridge. To further confuse things there was already a .280 Winchester case being produced based on a necked down 06' case. They also had already used 7mm in their 7mm Remington magnum designation. 7mm-08 gets the point across pretty well, a .28 caliber cartridge based on the .308 case.
> 
> Still waiting for a commercially produced .25 caliber, .308 variant. I'm partial to .25's and it would be a great deer round.


I agree with you fully on this and your post re-enforces my "tempest in a teapot" disdain for how American manufacturers assign nomenclature to their cartridges. Seems there was a bit of a fuss with Remington and their back and forth .280 Remington/7mm Remington Express as well as the .244 Remington/6mm Remington - different marketing names for basically the same cartridge. 

Not so sure about your reference to a ".280 Winchester" cartridge. Winchester marketed their .284 Winchester (1963) which was a 7mm but based on a vastly different case with a rebated rim. The cartridge died of its own accord but has since risen from the dead due to its cult following amongst wildcatters who necked it up/down to most every caliber under the sun. The justly famous .270 Winchester is based on a slightly modified 30/06 case (the .270 case is .06" shorter than the 30/06 case) but to call it a 7mm/.284 cartridge is kind of parsing things as to whether or not you base the 'caliber' on the dimension of the barrel's lands or grooves. The Remington 7mm/08 cartridge takes a bullet with a .284" diameter bullet (as does the 7mm Mauser, 7mm Remington Magnum, 7mm Weatherby etc.) while the .270 Winchester takes a bullet with a .277 bullet diameter. Why didn't Winchester just go to a true 7mm bullet back in 1925 when they were looking for a "new" cartridge for their Model 54 bolt action rifle? Because, I once read, they feared American aversion to things "European" (as in metric) due to growing American isolation following WWI - failure of the U.S. Senate to ratify the Versailles Treaty etc.

Still think "7mm/08" is a dumb name for a cartridge in that "7mm" is very descriptive but "08" has little meaning in and of itself. Kind of like .277/06 or how about 06/.338 or maybe .264/.458 or should it be .264/.338/.458 Winchester. Never thought much of the 25/06 Remington designation either.

Hoppe's no.10


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

Munsterlndr said:


> Still waiting for a commercially produced .25 caliber, .308 variant. I'm partial to .25's and it would be a great deer round.


Probably never see it. The 25-06 seems to have that solidly wrapped up and though the 257 Roberts isn't setting the world on fire, it's a great round too and would be very similar, so my guess would be why bother. It someone reaallly wanted one, it wouldn't be that difficult to put together and get dies to load your own. I personally always thought Winchester screwed up by having a 25 WSSM and not basing it on the WSM case, but I heard there were some technical problems.


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

Hoppe's no.10 said:


> The justly famous .270 Winchester is based on a slightly modified 30/06 case (the .270 case is .06" shorter than the 30/06 case) but to call it a 7mm/.284 cartridge is kind of parsing things as to whether or not you base the 'caliber' on the dimension of the barrel's lands or grooves. The Remington 7mm/08 cartridge takes a bullet with a .284" diameter bullet (as does the 7mm Mauser, 7mm Remington Magnum, 7mm Weatherby etc.) while the .270 Winchester takes a bullet with a .277 bullet diameter. Why didn't Winchester just go to a true 7mm bullet back in 1925 when they were looking for a "new" cartridge for their Model 54 bolt action rifle? Because, I once read, they feared American aversion to things "European" (as in metric) due to growing American isolation following WWI - failure of the U.S. Senate to ratify the Versailles Treaty etc.


You have it backwards, the 270 case is longer. Necking the '06 down, you lengthen the shoulder and shorten the neck. To make up for the lost neck, Winchester added to it, making the case length longer than the '06. Max overall length for the 270 case is 2.540" while max of the '06 is 2.494". The 280 is actually based on the 270 case with the body lengthened and the neck shortened to prevent accidental chamberings. 

It is not well known why Winchester went with the .277" caliber. One version is it's based on an obscure chinese chambering, another is Winchester wanted something different and picked something between two well established European calibers (6.5mm and 7mm). But no one knows for sure. And as I'm sure you know, the 270 is a true 7mm....the 7mms are actually about 7.2mm.


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## Hoppe's no.10 (Sep 16, 2007)

M1Garand said:


> You have it backwards, the 270 case is longer. Necking the '06 down, you lengthen the shoulder and shorten the neck. To make up for the lost neck, Winchester added to it, making the case length longer than the '06. Max overall length for the 270 case is 2.540" while max of the '06 is 2.494". The 280 is actually based on the 270 case with the body lengthened and the neck shortened to prevent accidental chamberings.


You got me on this one, just double-checked my Sierra manual and I did get it backwards. 

Hoppe's no.10


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

I figured you did


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## inland44 (Dec 1, 2008)

As a fellow southpaw and pretty much in the same situation currently I would like to put in my 2 cents. I have always been a fan of short action bolt guns, my current go to rifle is a .300WSM bulit on a Remington 700 short action LH. The 24" ported barrel and laminated stock tame the recoil just fine but recently .300WSM ammo has taken a jump and going through a couple of boxes of ammo on a Saturday hurts the wallet more than the sholder. So Im also in the market for a left handed bolt and the .308win and 7mm-08 are on my short list. Here are my thoughts on the rounds and rifle options.

I love the .308 and pretty much agree that it is capable of taking any North American game short of bigger bears. I am not comfortable saying the same thing about the 708 but other than that I have NOTHING bad to say about the round and its capablities. Im leaning more toward the .308 for a few reasons, ammo is easy to find in a wide range of bullet types and weights. As for recoil I think there are too many varialbles to definatively say the 708 will alwasy kick less than the 308. Powder charges and bullet weights will vary based on your planned hunt and a recoil pad or barrel porting can really tame the 308 if that is the most important issue. 

As for avalable rifles, us leftys have alwasy been limited in choice. Most major manufactures have only offered long actions in the most popular calibers.(30-06, 25-06, 7mm rem mag and .300win mag.) Savage has always been our friend offering a very big selection of LH actions in both long and short actions. The recent push for the Short Mags has expanded our options from Browning, Remington and even CZ offers a few. Just this year Ruger has added some left handed short actions to their M-77 Hawkeye line up and are worth a look if your looking for the classic american look. 

Savage is still the front runner for me, in particular the Model 16FSS Weather Warrior in
.308win. I like the stainless steel, the accutrigger is awosome and from what I have recently read about the accustock its a winning combination, also the price is right. If the stainless synthetic is not your cup of tea, this year they have expanded the model 14 American Classic line to include left handed actions. These are just my thoughs hope it helps.


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## freshwater drum (Mar 17, 2007)

if you handload i'd go with the 7mm-08. if you use factory ammo i'd go with the .308 for ammo availibility reasons.


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## YooperTroll (Sep 30, 2008)

i have a remington 7 mmo8 and i love it. it's light and packs a nice punch. 

the ammo's pricey, though! at about a $1-$1.50 a shot you want to be as efficient as possible when sighting it in :yikes:


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## steelsetter (Dec 14, 2003)

Easier on the wallet for ammo.

Very easy and cheap to get into a reloading package with the availability of used components all over the net if you look.

More than capable of stopping any critter on the planet with well placed shots.

AND a 20 round magazine if they are really big bad and ugly 








[/IMG]

Watched a film clip years a go of an Elephant cropping operation in Africa.

Game officer used a FN/FAL .308 after sneaking into the herd.

Well placed brain shots was what he was using to drop em in their tracks for the most part, and he was spanking em.

That just had to be a rush


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## Ralphy (Apr 4, 2009)

Thanks for all the input guys. I have just purchased a Savage American classic LH in .308. Havent shot it yet I have to get scope mounts today and some shells. Not as pretty as mt Remington bdl but a nice gun with the accue trigger. Can't wait to try it out.


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## inland44 (Dec 1, 2008)

I have not yet pulled the trigger so to speak on my Savage, but need to soon before deer season. Please let me know what you think of it and how it shoots.


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## Ralphy (Apr 4, 2009)

As to your question inland, I took my new .308 up north this weekend and did some shooting with it and got it dialed in at 100 yds. It sure is nice to have a left handed bolt rifle from Savage that actullaly looks nice. Absolutely loved the accue trigger. While I didn't put any holes touching each other at 100 yds I did shoot a 1" group with it, so I was happy with that. Started at 25 yds because I mounted a Nikon scope myself and it was not bore sighted. Went to 50 yds 2 shots and the holes were touching so then I went to 100 yds a couple little clicks on the scope and it seems to be good to go. Hope you enjoy yours and good luck in the upcoming season.


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## john warren (Jan 25, 2005)

i would sugjest you look into trying a few of them out. some gunshops have ranges and can let you test a few. or maybe a local gun club. some ranges have rental guns.
try williams gunsite if your near that area.


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## hunt-n-fool (Oct 10, 2006)

dont ask that question, its loaded, much like the does this dress make me look fat question !


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## Enigma (Jan 30, 2006)

By the way Munsterlndr I do reload and shot a few more than a few 100 shells throw my 338-378 weatherby a year at 300 to 600 yards.But I did buy my son 12 years old a 7mm-08 barrel for my encore to day for him for the youth hunt I wouldn't let him shot any of my weatherbys his weight is only 85 pounds hes to lite to shot those guns..


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## sourdough44 (Mar 2, 2008)

The 7mm-08 is nice but is .62mm enough to get worked up over? When the end comes & your scrounging like the 2 in "The Road" you have a better chance of finding 308 ammo than 7mm-08. If your a reloader you can also tailor your 308 loads wherever you want.


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## codybear (Jun 27, 2002)

Enigma said:


> By the way Munsterlndr I do reload and shot a few more than a few 100 shells throw my 338-378 weatherby a year at 300 to 600 yards.But I did buy my son 12 years old a 7mm-08 barrel for my encore to day for him for the youth hunt I wouldn't let him shot any of my weatherbys his weight is only 85 pounds hes to lite to shot those guns..


I bought my 12 year old son a .308 then we went and picked up some 50% reduced loads by Remington and now it has less kick than a .243 and when he's ready, he can start using standard loads.. Sure beats buying different guns/barrels for him to grow into..

CB


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## Enigma (Jan 30, 2006)

I should of did that 308 would of been good.Like you said he would grow in to it.I wonder if I can take the barrel back to jays?I or we have not shot it yet.I could load light loads my self.


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## TrekJeff (Sep 7, 2007)

Both calibers are meat getters. I'm partial to the 30 caliber family.


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## passport (Jul 26, 2009)

I have a LVSF in 7-08 and really like it, I was and stil am, a HUGE fan of the 30 naught 6 but felt like it was too much for the small deer we shoot in centeral MI so I went to the 7-08 and it dumps em just as hard as the 06. I just picked up a 308 today in fact just because I think everyone needs one......:lol:

Here is my 7-08, shoots 140 B-tips into tiny little groups....


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