# Lake St. Clair Muskie Spearing Season/Shivaree



## Firefighter (Feb 14, 2007)

Since Lake St. Clair is a unique muskie fishery, I feel like I should start a new thread regarding it, and it's harvest capabilities.

I propose a spearing season much like that of the Sturgeon Shivaree on Black Lake. Below are my suggestions. NOTE: These are my Personal opinions, and not those of any group or organization. 

-One weekend season, with a strict harvest quota based on scientific studies and fisheries biology from a non-biased group. (50 fish?)

-Mandatory check in of speared fish to DNR fisheries biologists for collection of data.

-Musky fishing tag required for ALL anglers who choose to target them, with the cost the same price of a deer tag. (Charter and Spearing guides to pay an additional fee for use of an international resource).

I think a Muskie Shivaree would bring HUGE publicity and funds to the area and fishery. It would draw THOUSANDS of people from all sides. Spearers, hook and line fishermen, and conservationists would unite as one, just as at the Blak Lake Shiveree. Valuable biological data would be collected. Our knowledge of this amazing resource and how to manage it would increase vastly. 


What are everyone's thoughts? Who would participate and on what level? Please put aside your emotions and discuss with science, economic impact, and human relations in consideration.


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

I've changed my mind, but I'm interested in what others have to say.


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## mtrop (Dec 30, 2010)

Since I'm a person who speers I would travel down there to do something like this as I did for sturgeon 
I estimate I spent 100 dollars just on raffle tickets buttons and food and drink at the shivery
That's not including all the gas pop other things I needed
The money raised would defiantly held fund stocking of fish and data


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## scoot (Jul 4, 2001)

One of the top musky lakes in the world. I'd say whatever management plan it's on doesn't need to be changed


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## WALLEYE MIKE (Jan 7, 2001)

With the one musky per year harvest limit, this is being discussed. LECAC

Look for separate limits on pike , bass and walleye in the near future instead of the combined limit.


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## Dmatt (Dec 17, 2014)

I think it would be a huge disservice to our state to allow spearing on what is considered to be the best muskie fishery in the world. It is that way due to the spearing ban in place. Why would we want to do anything to damage a resource as uniquely valuable as Lake St. Clair?

If anything, we should restrict spearing on our other native muskie waters so as to allow those fisheries to become as good or better than what we have in Lake St. Clair. I think setting up a muskie shivaree in line with the Sturgeon shivaree on Black on our inland waters would be a great idea. It could run during the same time as the Sturgeon shivaree and would be governed by the same general rules with a max total harvest of 5 fish for a set number of days. That number could obviously be changed as data on population numbers is collected.

I do love your idea of mandatory reporting of speared fish though. It would be great if all of the muskies speared on our native waters were made available to the DNR for data collection.


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## Ice Scratcher (Jan 29, 2011)

I'm not really for the idea myself...

I never know if/when I would have the money and or time travel there to give it a try... 

If I won the lottery, I might consider buying a harvest tag so I could mount one on the wall..

But with my budget I fish/spear for food much more than trophies...

I wouldn't cry about it though, never really targeted Skis and may never start... 

I think the limit of one a year is perfect just in case you catch one that needs to be mounted.. They should up the size though IMO, maybe 50"

<*)))>{


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## Firefighter (Feb 14, 2007)

I agree on a raised size limit. 46" on all waters.

Beyond a Shivaree, all harvested muskies and known incidentals should be reported.


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm against a muskie spearing event with a quota when there's no quota for all other methods of fishing. 

I would like to see the MSL for muskie on Lk St Clair raised.
I would like to see an open muskie spearing season (length of season TBD) on Lk St Clair. 

Both of which should be set by fisheries biologists according to what will keep Lk St Clair a destination muskie water.


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## blittle913 (Feb 21, 2007)

Mr. Botek said:


> I'm against a muskie spearing event with a quota when there's no quota for all other methods of fishing.
> 
> I would like to see the MSL for muskie on Lk St Clair raised.
> I would like to see an open muskie spearing season (length of season TBD) on Lk St Clair.
> ...



This


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## MIfishinGuy (Feb 17, 2005)

i think why not let the spearing guys spear one? as long as you have a tag to fill, i dont see the difference between bob spearing a muskie thru the ice and joe catching one in the summer. everybody gets to take one home a year.

i think thats simple and fair.


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## Ice Scratcher (Jan 29, 2011)

Mr. Botek said:


> I'm against a muskie spearing event with a quota when there's no quota for all other methods of fishing.
> 
> I would like to see the MSL for muskie on Lk St Clair raised.
> I would like to see an open muskie spearing season (length of season TBD) on Lk St Clair.
> ...


This^

I only fish pretty much in the winter, why would I want to voluntarily cut my chances of potential enjoyment when the rest of the seasons are left unchanged...

<*)))>{


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## LoBrass (Oct 16, 2007)

Does it expand opportunity? *Yes*

Then I'm all for it.


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## Ice Scratcher (Jan 29, 2011)

LoBrass said:


> Does it expand opportunity? *Yes*


You mean NO...

How could having a one weekend season for spearing and leaving the rest unchanged expand anyone's opportunity, except the fair weather casters?

As a hardwater opportunist I see this to be extremely limiting my chances..

<°)))>{


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## Firefighter (Feb 14, 2007)

I think he's for a season, not necessarily my proposals (which were just suggestions).


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## Ice Scratcher (Jan 29, 2011)

Maybe I'm out of the loop on LSC..

Is spearing not legal for skis?

<°)))>{


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## Firefighter (Feb 14, 2007)

Ice Scratcher said:


> Maybe I'm out of the loop on LSC..
> 
> Is spearing not legal for skis?
> 
> <°)))>{


Not currently allowed.


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

Muskie season on Lk St Clair is only open June 7 - December 15.


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## Ice Scratcher (Jan 29, 2011)

Dang, I never realized that...

I stand corrected..

I would be for any new hardwater opportunities..

Although I think we should just wait till the perch become scarce enough to put an open season with a bounty on em!! 

Arr!

<°)))>{


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## BigBucks13 (Sep 23, 2011)

MIfishinGuy said:


> i think why not let the spearing guys spear one? as long as you have a tag to fill, i dont see the difference between bob spearing a muskie thru the ice and joe catching one in the summer. everybody gets to take one home a year.
> 
> i think thats simple and fair.


My feelings exactly! Why not let the fisherman decide if he wants to spear a Muskie or catch it Hook and Line? Ive been ice fishing alot this season and have yet to even see a Muskie... last year i saw 3... 

Also if it were legal i bet you'd stop hear the rumors that Pike Fishermen Spear Muskie and the push them back under the ice... because I bet that is 100% true and i wonder how many muskie die that way the the Muskie Catch n Release guys dont even think about...oh year maybe thats why they want all spearing outlawed and want to ruin a Long Tradition for many just to satisfy what they feel is right...


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

I am not eating L.S.C. muskies. Not to avoid them but because none are in my possession.
I skin large fish. Remove all fat visible and dark meat.
Studies show certain areas contain higher amounts of contaminants thus they get removed.
The fish consumed in our youths were contaminated from multiple sources, even good ol D.D.T... 
Advisories suggest not consuming them in frequent amounts, pregnant or to be pregnant females ect, ect..to avoid build up.
If we knew what was in our groceries we'ed probably scream louder than what is in our fish. Mercury is naturally occurring also in many/most waters and we been eating out of them a long time. Would I eat a ski out of L.S.C.. Absolutely.
While no fan of fish mounts ,a replica could suffice, the meat often considered forfeit when having one mounted. Not my business if it belongs to someone else though.
If fish are heavy with contaminants don't eat heavy and frequently on them and remove areas with highest levels at your own risk. Life goes on and a car could cross the center line on any of us; before we are laying in a hospital bed dying of nothing someday.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

:idea: Just learn how to fish and get your muskie in a manner that allows you to release them till you get the one you want for your wallhanger if you feel the need for a skin mount.


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

Yes, I am a spearer.

I would very likely eat it and get a replica made.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

scoot said:


> My question is if musky spearing is allowed on LSC what will be done with them? Food? DNR states "DO NOT EAT". I mean I guess you still can but if theyre telling me not to, Im not gonna. Research? There's a lot of studies already done on LSC growth/age. Speared and tossed in dumpster? I'd like to think not but what else am I to believe. Don't mean to come across as a jerk but someone educate me


You failed to note where the do not eat applies to L.S.C..
It tells us the canals are the source of additional mercury.(?).

"(Use when fishing within 2 miles of the Lange-Revere Canals."


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## Firefighter (Feb 14, 2007)

Dmatt said:


> Tasty? Sure, but healthy? No. I would not advise eating any muskellunge and especially not one of the size/age of the one you killed. The older they get the more toxins they accumulate in their body. It is not smart to eat a muskie of that size.


Prove to me eating 1 muskie every few years has more of a detrimental effect than say cigarettes, alcohol, energy drinks, McDonald's, etc...

"The sky is falling!!!"


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## Firefighter (Feb 14, 2007)

pikedevil said:


> I know you guys are prolly just trying to get a rise out of muskie fisherman but muskies carry a lot of pollutants and aren't fit for human consumption, your talking about a long lived predator that eats adult suckers and carp.
> 
> This is off the wisc DNR page
> 
> ...



And no, I'm not in the business of aggravating a group for fun. 

I would eat any musky I speared without worry, and I am intimately familiar with bio-accumulation in the food chain.


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## Dmatt (Dec 17, 2014)

Firefighter said:


> Prove to me eating 1 muskie every few years has more of a detrimental effect than say cigarettes, alcohol, energy drinks, McDonald's, etc...
> 
> "The sky is falling!!!"


I never said it was worse than any of those things you listed. Simply that the Michigan Department of Community Health states that muskellunge from LSC should not be consumed in any quantity and muskellunge of that size on other waters have similar health warnings associated with eating them too. You can choose to ignore the warnings at your own risk. Its your own personal choice, just as it is for anyone who smokes cigs.

Waif: The MDCH safe fish guide classifies muskellunge in all of LSC as Do Not Eat, not just the area you stated. The area you stated has other health warnings for other species but muskie is universally "Do Not Eat" for all of LSC. It states: "No one should eat fish listed as Do Not Eat, regardless of age or health. When these fish were tested, MDCH found very high levels of chemicals. Eating even one meal of these fish could possibly lead to health problems in the future, regardless of age or health."


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## wintrrun (Jun 11, 2008)

Firefighter said:


> Prove to me eating 1 muskie every few years has more of a detrimental effect than say cigarettes, alcohol, energy drinks, McDonald's, etc...
> 
> "The sky is falling!!!"


I'll bet McDonalds would get on board with this.
Care to take a stab at how many filet-o-fish sandwiches you can make out of a 50" Ski! :yikes:

Oh and the pun was intended.


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

So now I'm to believe that those that are against spearing care so much about people's health that there should be zero harvest of muskie? 
I want to make sure I have that correct.


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## Dmatt (Dec 17, 2014)

Not at all Mr. Botek. Its just like firefighter said, its probably no more harmful than smoking cigs or binge drinking. The health department advises against it but that's definitely not going to stop people from doing it anyways.

It just brought up the question of how are these harvested fish being used if they aren't being eaten? It seems like a useless question now though, since it sounds like most of you would consume the fish anyways.


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## scoot (Jul 4, 2001)




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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

Not a useless question Dmatt.


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## scoot (Jul 4, 2001)

You're correct Mr botek I am concerned for your health that's why I can't meet up for beers. But if you wanna grab some vitamin waters somewhere...


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Dmatt said:


> I never said it was worse than any of those things you listed. Simply that the Michigan Department of Community Health states that muskellunge from LSC should not be consumed in any quantity and muskellunge of that size on other waters have similar health warnings associated with eating them too. You can choose to ignore the warnings at your own risk. Its your own personal choice, just as it is for anyone who smokes cigs.
> 
> Waif: The MDCH safe fish guide classifies muskellunge in all of LSC as Do Not Eat, not just the area you stated. The area you stated has other health warnings for other species but muskie is universally "Do Not Eat" for all of LSC. It states: "No one should eat fish listed as Do Not Eat, regardless of age or health. When these fish were tested, MDCH found very high levels of chemicals. Eating even one meal of these fish could possibly lead to health problems in the future, regardless of age or health."


Dmatt: I stand corrected. My apologies.
Page 59 indicates all of the lake. Was going by the other page.
Mercury stated on pg. 59 as the issue as well as the other fish eating specie crappies. The black arrow refers the reader to page seven where do not eat is clarified.
While I remain unconcerned about my potential consumption; I am not suggesting others eat muskies there.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

scoot said:


> You're correct Mr botek I am concerned for your health that's why I can't meet up for beers. But if you wanna grab some vitamin waters somewhere...


L.o.l.. Filtered or distilled and who tested it for mercury? 
Joking,joking. Don't shoot.


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

scoot said:


> You're correct Mr botek I am concerned for your health that's why I can't meet up for beers. But if you wanna grab some vitamin waters somewhere...


LOL! My limit of alcoholic beverages is one, and even that's on rare occasions. 

Always willing to talk with open minded people.


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## mtrop (Dec 30, 2010)

Waif said:


> I am not eating L.S.C. muskies. Not to avoid them but because none are in my possession.
> I skin large fish. Remove all fat visible and dark meat.
> Studies show certain areas contain higher amounts of contaminants thus they get removed.
> The fish consumed in our youths were contaminated from multiple sources, even good ol D.D.T...
> ...



Yes that


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## pikedevil (Feb 11, 2003)

Mr. Botek said:


> So now I'm to believe that those that are against spearing care so much about people's health that there should be zero harvest of muskie?
> I want to make sure I have that correct.


I would never suggest someone eat a fish that is full of mercury anyone that would is extremely irresponsible IMO. the MDAA, who claims to be all about harvesting fish responsibly for food and not wasting anything, is pushing for a season on water where the fish have a "do not eat" warning on them? The end result is ather fish killed for thrill and thrown in a dumpster which is a public relations nightmare or someone eating something that could make them sick or give their children birth defects. So what happens when the first person gets sick and people go looking for who is responsible and it leads back to you for promoting and pushing for this?


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

I live in the real world of personal responsibility. Neither I nor the MDAA is telling anyone that they HAVE to go spearing muskie on Lk St Clair IF it is ever allowed. We aren't telling anyone they HAVE to go spearing for anything, anywhere, ever. 

We are saying that a person should have the option. 

It is up to each individual on a daily basis what they choose to eat. 

Are you currently actively advocating in any arena for the immediate halt to muskie consumption from St Clair? Some must have eaten at least ONE from there since the advisory. Have you contacted them and expressed your concern for them? 

Is this the final excuse for standing in the way of a winter muskie season on Lk St Clair? A consumption advisory? 

Here's where I stand: I favor a winter muskie season on Lk St Clair, with spearing included in the legal method of take. The MSL should but raised to ensure that the fishery continues at the same or better quality that it is now, this in conjunction with the one per year limit. The season should be limited in length, to be determined by the DNR/NRC. 

Is that too much to ask?


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## Firefighter (Feb 14, 2007)

Mr. Botek said:


> I live in the real world of personal responsibility. Neither I nor the MDAA is telling anyone that they HAVE to go spearing muskie on Lk St Clair IF it is ever allowed. We aren't telling anyone they HAVE to go spearing for anything, anywhere, ever.
> 
> We are saying that a person should have the option.
> 
> ...


Yes, yes it is because in pd's narrow mind, we kill for thrill and toss fish into a dumpster.

I wonder how he feels about bowfishing?

I'm awaiting documented scientific proof of human harm from great lakes region consumption of ANY fish, even carp or catfish.


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

Firefighter said:


> Yes, yes it is because in pd's narrow mind


I think that is unfair. He has an opinion and is passionate about it. I happen to disagree with it, but I make no judgment about him as a person.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

If it helps , no one I know would kill a muskie then discard it.
I know some people dislike them but that is not related to those I know spearing nor should it be tolerated..


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## scoot (Jul 4, 2001)

Gotta agree with pd. This seems like a thrill of the kill to me. It amazes me that a lot of the argument for spearing is "DNR okays it" and "it's legal" yet when they warn "do not eat" well then it's okay not to listen. Seems pretty selective


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

Thanks Scoot! Our motto at MDAA is: Practicing Selective Harvest (seriously, says so on our shirts&#128521

Look, I get it. You all have a personal objection to killing muskie. Nobody is saying you have to change anything, just be understanding that others feel differently. 

Again, I ask: do you not think there is room for winter muskie season under the guidelines I posted above. (please don't say fish consumption advisory, that isn't limited to muskie harvested in winter).


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Go spearing and find out for yourself. A kill ends the excitement. 
Watching a pike or other fish respond to your offering and how you work it or present it tops just feeling a strike or a flag going off. 
Watching the activity of all that goes on below the ice by eye rather than camera or flasher is different. Nothing wrong with other means. I'd be lost without a flasher but sometimes it's nice to get a first hand view.
Thrill ends when? One muskie kill you go home. Or grab something with a hook and do what to the fish?
A more personal contact allows greater discrimination. Fish don't stress from being watched or passed. Conditions need to be favorable to even see fish, visibility due to water clarity only a start.
Should I ignore the law and spear saying so what if it is allowed or not?
Then saying it's o.k. because it is legal holds a little more weight don't it.


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## Opey (Feb 15, 2013)

I'm a catch and release guy but I see no difference in keeping a trophy perch, walleye, bass or Muskie as long as it is legal. I do have a question for the guys saying it's not healthy to eat Muskie. Do u eat decent amounts of anything U catch out of the Great Lakes? Because there are health warnings on eating every species of fish in our lakes when it comes to amount of consumption.


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## scoot (Jul 4, 2001)

I'm not a fish eater myself. A few bluegills once in a great while. Not a "do not eat" fish. 

Mr. Botek, I want Minnesota - esque regulations so no I don't like the idea of any harvest on LSC or any lake. However I'd trade killing a few on LSC if it meant leaving the tiny populations of natural northern michigan fish alone. My opinion is that it is an absolute embarrassment that those fish can be harvested. We have world record muskies in our state that hardly anyone fishes for because they are over harvested. WORLD RECORD fish that aren't a destination for die hard muskie anglers because the population is in the crapper.


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

I respect your opinion Scoot. I have a belief that the general public and the powers that be in Lansing would not look favorably on your exclusionary view. 

If you were to boat a muskie that you had no doubt was the next state or world record, would you keep it? My opinion: you should have the choice. 

I believe that the laws that are in place now can be further refined, taking into consideration fishing methods and muskie populations, even down to a lake by lake basis, to allow every fisherman to participate.


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## treeman (Mar 18, 2002)

Your original proposal would not work simply because of the logistics involved. There are many, many people involved in managing the sturgeon spearing at Black Lake for a very short season, with a small quota on a large but manageable lake. The fishing was shut down on the whole lake this year within 13 minutes of the harvest of the last fish. Not possible on St. Clair.


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## Firefighter (Feb 14, 2007)

treeman said:


> Your original proposal would not work simply because of the logistics involved. There are many, many people involved in managing the sturgeon spearing at Black Lake for a very short season, with a small quota on a large but manageable lake. The fishing was shut down on the whole lake this year within 13 minutes of the harvest of the last fish. Not possible on St. Clair.


Tell why it isn't possible? 

To me, 13 minutes is ridiculously long after the last fish is harvested to notify of season closure. 

There are tons of cheap programs that can send an IMMEDIATE text blast to thousands of people. School districts use it all the time to notify of school closures and whatnot. You participate in a season, you register your phone number. Don't have a phone? B.S.

Have a single check in point for taken fish. I would be willing to bet the DNR, USGS, and many university fisheries departments would LINE UP to collect valuable data.

And there is no shortage of biological information on the health St. Clair's fishery.


Don't argue logistics when they're far more simplistic than most realize.


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## Dmatt (Dec 17, 2014)

Mr. Botek said:


> Is this the final excuse for standing in the way of a winter muskie season on Lk St Clair? A consumption advisory?


Mr. Botek, the health department consumption advisory is not the only good reason or "final excuse" to not allow the spearing of muskellunge on Lake St. Clair, but it certainly is one of many good reasons not to. There have been many other good reasons that have been brought up that shouldn't be ignored.

pikedevil makes a very good point when he questions the reasoning behind the MDAA's efforts to open LSC to spearing. There are 2 scenarios that I can see are the case here. Obviously both involve the MDAA's support of opening LSC to muskie spearing. The 2 scenarios are either (1) the MDAA is supporting the harvest and consumption of a fish that has been deemed unfit to eat by the Michigan Department of Community Health or (2) the MDAA is supporting the harvest of muskie on LSC strictly for the thrill of the kill to be kept as a trophy.

I am assuming that the MDAA would not instruct or preach to its members to consume a fish that is unsafe to eat so the only thing I can assume is that your desire to open LSC to spearing is strictly to have another body of water to be able to get the thrill of spearing a muskie. That would seem to go against the MDAA's claim that they are never wasteful of their catch.

I completely understand the thrill of spearing as a sport and as a method of harvest for the table and I am not against it for other species of fish when done respectfully and for the table. It just seems to me that those who support opening LSC to muskie spearing but also claim to never waste their catch are speaking out of both sides of their mouth on this topic. You have to admit that you want spearing on LSC so you can get the thrill of the kill on a lake where success will be very easy. Claiming otherwise is very contradictory.


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## scoot (Jul 4, 2001)

> If you were to boat a muskie that you had no doubt was the next state or world record, would you keep it? My opinion: you should have the choice.


 I'm a little confused by this. I could keep it if I wanted, even with Minnesota regs (but I wouldnt). I know my opinion wouldnt go over great with the general public or lansing. I feel if the lakes in mich were allowed to LIVE up to their potential there would be greater support to protect these fish because the popularity for c&r would grow. 
Having said that, lake by lake based regulations, as you stated, would be a baby step in the right direction


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

I believe all of the concerns have been addressed. I would like to see a winter muskie season on Lk St Clair that includes spearing as a method of take. I would like to see the MSL increased to protect even more muskie than are currently being protected. The consumption advisory isn't a reason to not allow a winter season, while allowing an open water season where keeping a muskie is legal. Surely you're not saying that summer/fall fish are safe but fish through the ice aren't? Apparently even the DNR are okay with knowing there may be muskie killed an eaten during open water season. I think I've now addressed that.

I do not speak for the MDAA, I am a member. I've also said that nowhere has the MDAA told anyone they have to do anything. That's a personal choice. 

I believe the reason that MDAA would like there to be a winter muskie season is to allow equal access to a renewable resource. 

I would be thrilled to spear a muskie on any water. I've said I would eat it.


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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

How many "Muskellunge Harvest Tags" are allowed State wide? One per license? Not likely. But to all who request one, I'm sure. Ya think?


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

scoot said:


> I'm a little confused by this. I could keep it if I wanted, even with Minnesota regs (but I wouldnt). I know my opinion wouldnt go over great with the general public or lansing. I feel if the lakes in mich were allowed to LIVE up to their potential there would be greater support to protect these fish because the popularity for c&r would grow.
> Having said that, lake by lake based regulations, as you stated, would be a baby step in the right direction


I was wondering if you would be okay with keeping a record muskie but no others. Thank you for your answer. 

I'm glad to see you're open to one idea I've mentioned.


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

Big Frank 25 said:


> How many "Muskellunge Harvest Tags" are allowed State wide? One per license? Not likely. But to all who request one, I'm sure. Ya think?


I believe anyone with a fishing license may get a tag.


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## Dmatt (Dec 17, 2014)

Mr. Botek said:


> Surely you're not saying that summer/fall fish are safe but fish through the ice aren't? Apparently even the DNR are okay with knowing there may be muskie killed an eaten during open water season. I think I've now addressed that.
> 
> I do not speak for the MDAA, I am a member. I've also said that nowhere has the MDAA told anyone they have to do anything. That's a personal choice.


I am definitely not saying they are safe to eat in the summer/fall. The regulations do not exist because of the consumption advisory. They exist to protect the fishery. The consumption advisory was brought up as a reason why spearers should not want to spear a muskie from LSC not as a fact to base regulations on. Can you answer this question? If you shouldn't eat them, why would you want to spear them?


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## scoot (Jul 4, 2001)

^^^^Yea that


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

I did answer that. It would be enjoyable to harvest a muskie with spear from any water and I would eat it.

I agree the regulations exist to protect the fishery, I said that already. In fact, I've said I believe the regulations need to be adjusted to a higher MSL.

Just as you aren't able to see how fulfilling it is to spear a fish, I can't wrap my head around the idea of playing tag with one. Isn't catch and release all about the "thrill"? 

Why should your joy trump another person's? It shouldn't, and neither should mine. 

I've proposed ideas that not only would allow you to continue to enjoy what you do, but create opportunities for more people as well. I think that's a wonderful thing.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

treeman said:


> Your original proposal would not work simply because of the logistics involved. There are many, many people involved in managing the sturgeon spearing at Black Lake for a very short season, with a small quota on a large but manageable lake. The fishing was shut down on the whole lake this year within 13 minutes of the harvest of the last fish. Not possible on St. Clair.


Fascinating creatures. A tough go of it for them at mans hand.. 
Hooked one in a river one spring. Was not targeting them but it was great to know they were in there.
Another river I had the opportunity to watch a large muskie feeding.
I was living on a lake with tiger muskies in it but this one from a big lake was ... o.k...Large! L.o.l..insane girth too. Both fish left impressions of wonderment of potential. Not to kill all but to see them continue.
Is spearing on Black lake a sort of promotion of the resource?
We understand it is not necessary.
A competitive rivalry is heard of there, but that happens with most limited resources.
Kudos to those trying to look after the sturgeons well being.
Soon it will be time for spawning guards.


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## hillbillie (Jan 16, 2011)

Firefighter said:


> For the record, I've eaten muskie and like pike, And I guarantee you couldn't tell the difference in a blind taste test between it and walleye.


Never ate musky but in a blind taste test between pike and walleye I can tell the difference. Prefer fresh pike any day.

Edit: even the large pike hold their flavor and texture. Would like to try a piece of winter caught musky someday to form my own opinion.


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## scoot (Jul 4, 2001)

> Vano, take a look at the inflammatory, derogatory comments on social media made by so called proponents of catch and release towards fishermen with legally speared fish. They're all over, most involving childish insults about machismo or sexual orientation. These common comments destroy your cause and it's credibility. Spearers are a tight-knit, responsible, and respectful group that do not stoop to such levels. We do not kill for fun, and to make blanket statements like this is ignorant (not saying you have, but MANY in your circle believe so). I don't expect everyone to understand our sport completely, but I do expect as much respect as I'll give, which is a great deal.


I agree, I've seen some of the comments and they're not right. But to think that's not a two way street is ridiculous. "Here come the tree hugger, musky lovers" or "enter the psychos that think muskies are sacred". I think (and hope) we can agree there are knucklehead outliers on both sides. 
As far as being responsible, I fail to see how wanting to spear fish out of a lake where they can't be eaten is responsible. I realize I'm beating a dead horse but I've failed to see one response that's acceptable or "responsible".


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

I'll tell you this, and I won't back down! 

Vano knows where to meet for good food! Argue that ladies!


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## vano397 (Sep 15, 2006)

Firefighter said:


> Vano, take a look at the inflammatory, derogatory comments on social media made by so called proponents of catch and release towards fishermen with legally speared fish. They're all over, most involving childish insults about machismo or sexual orientation. These common comments destroy your cause and it's credibility. Spearers are a tight-knit, responsible, and respectful group that do not stoop to such levels. We do not kill for fun, and to make blanket statements like this is ignorant (not saying you have, but MANY in your circle believe so). I don't expect everyone to understand our sport completely, but I do expect as much respect as I'll give, which is a great deal.


Generalizing me with "circles" is about the same as saying you are one of the guys that's dumping undersized fish down holes, and calling anyone in support of muskies in low density populations an "elitist". My point is that the guy in the video did something that every sportsman considers reprehensible. And trying to make a blanket statement based off that video is as bad as some knit-wit making idiotic comments about killing muskies. Neither make valid points, and both detract from the validity of an important conversation.


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## vano397 (Sep 15, 2006)

and glad you enjoyed it mr botek, its a pretty consistent place! also glad the weather was horrible since there was an ice tourny on croton yesterday, and it ended at 3. sounds like most were done by noon.


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## Waxdart (Sep 1, 2007)

i think a spearing season is a good idea but how do you judge a fish is 46 inches or 50 inches while its still in the water?

24 inches for pike is easy but being 100% sure the muskie you're about to harvest with a spear is over 46 or 50? 

id have a hard time being confident. do you guys have a method i dont know about to make sure a fish is 50 inches and not 49.5?


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

scoot said:


> Seems like a different debate about pollution. Are you suggesting holding off spearing/eating of toxic muskies until we get it cleaned up?


No, I am debating L.S.C. as perfect habitat.
It, the lake, is not alone as we slowly realize the effect of dredging stirring up contaminated sediment and some clean up has been attempted .
Could and should be among top ranking habitat rather than about number six on the list of worst polluted.
Sewage dumps are not isolated there or the effect of industrial waste throughout history.
My bet is it will not be cleaned up due to expense and depth of toxicity in sediment layers resulting in too great a volume too remove.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Missed Northern Trails as ribs were ready at four here. 
Do holler if your in the area and stopping again. 
Would liked to have done a meet and greet.


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

Waxdart said:


> i think a spearing season is a good idea but how do you judge a fish is 46 inches or 50 inches while its still in the water?
> 
> 24 inches for pike is easy but being 100% sure the muskie you're about to harvest with a spear is over 46 or 50?
> 
> id have a hard time being confident. do you guys have a method i dont know about to make sure a fish is 50 inches and not 49.5?


I've given that thought. A person could easily sink a cross or square frame of PVC. If the muskie fits inside the box, its too small and time for camera and video. When you're done spearing you pull it up and move on.
Even then if there's any doubt of size, let it pass. There will be another day and another fish.


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

Other ideas that are helpful in accurately judging size are knowing the dimensions of your spearing hole, hanging two decoys a known distance apart. A person could hang a thin line with a sinker from each corner of a spear hole after measuring the length/width. The only limitations for ideas is one's imagination.


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## AllSpecieAngler (Jun 12, 2008)

Mr. Botek said:


> Other ideas that are helpful in accurately judging size are knowing the dimensions of your spearing hole, hanging two decoys a known distance apart. A person could hang a thin line with a sinker from each corner of a spear hole after measuring the length/width. The only limitations for ideas is one's imagination.



Completely agree. Knowing the lengths of your decoys, hole size, distance between decoys and so forth can make judging size much easier. Like you said, if there's doubt let it go. Most of us spear guys usually have a tape measure at all times. Only takes a quick second to take measurements.


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## MIfishinGuy (Feb 17, 2005)

scoot said:


> I agree, I've seen some of the comments and they're not right. But to think that's not a two way street is ridiculous. "Here come the tree hugger, musky lovers" or "enter the psychos that think muskies are sacred". I think (and hope) we can agree there are knucklehead outliers on both sides.
> As far as being responsible, I fail to see how wanting to spear fish out of a lake where they can't be eaten is responsible. I realize I'm beating a dead horse but I've failed to see one response that's acceptable or "responsible".


when i posted why not let the spears take their one fish, i did not realize they are listed under do not eat advisory. im not for a new season or anything else that was discussed i just wanted to state what i felt would be fair.

i can see this makes spearing seem pointless or stupid because you now have a dead fish that you are advised not to eat. 

but if you are fishing in the summer and catch a legal fish, and decide to keep it to eat or mount or whatever, you are still left with the same thing as spearing one in the winter. a big dead fish you are advised not to eat.

if you only get to keep one a year anyway statewide, i don't see the difference for lake saint clair, or your freezer, or wall.

let the opportunity exist for those who wish to try it. let them worry about what to do with the fish in the winter just like in the summer.


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## Bob D (Aug 23, 2006)

I would be surprised if spearing muskie were allowed on Lake St. Clair due to the history and effort made to stop it. I doubt that MOMC will stand idly by if a proposal to expand the season for spearing became official. Why would the DNR mess with such a great success? Because it's human nature, I guess that was a stupid question.


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## hillbillie (Jan 16, 2011)

MOMC Vs MDAA

Might get interesting.


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

MDAA is not looking for, seeking or desiring a VERSUS with anyone. Simply mission: equal access and opportunity for all.


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