# To the setter and pointer owners.



## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

Mike McDonald said:


> I'm not sure but I think that if you used my system for the people that use this forum we might all be thinking about a flushing lab. mac mc d ps I have setters


Mac,

I'm not sure either but I think you could say the same about a fieldbred ECS, ESS, or a AWS.

Just sayin........

PS I hunted yesterday over a very nice and woodswise GSP and I still think that.

NB


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## Double Gun (Feb 22, 2005)

Mike McDonald said:


> As I've written on this forum before if you really want to compare hunting dogs, count the number of birds killed in front of the dog and then it becomes simple. 5 is better than 4 etc. I'm not sure but I think that if you used my system for the people that use this forum we might all be thinking about a flushing lab. mac mc d ps I have setters


So if those two owned setters you think they would kill less birds?


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## mudbat2128 (Sep 7, 2004)

Mike McDonald said:


> As I've written on this forum before if you really want to compare hunting dogs, count the number of birds killed in front of the dog and then it becomes simple. 5 is better than 4 etc.


That only works if you can kill every bird you put up. A shooters ability has nothing to do with dog work.


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## GSP Gal (Nov 12, 2005)

mudbat2128 said:


> That only works if you can kill every bird you put up. A shooters ability has nothing to do with dog work.


Can I get a AMEN! :lol: 

and- if my ability doesn't hinder me enough, I missed one of Schatzie's best grouse finds, and as I was swinging on it, I found the tree branch with my barrel! 

She's is gonna find me a new home---


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## Mike McDonald (Sep 10, 2007)

Double Gun said:


> So if those two owned setters you think they would kill less birds?


With their hunting techniques and style, yes.


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## Mike McDonald (Sep 10, 2007)

mudbat2128 said:


> That only works if you can kill every bird you put up. A shooters ability has nothing to do with dog work.


In my limited experience those who spend the time to have good dogs also spend the time to enhance their shooting and understanding of habitat. 

It parallels the thought that good handlers handle good dogs.


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## Bobby (Dec 21, 2002)

Induna said:


> ........... As for the Scotch, that would be Chuck. I'm a Beam kind of guy.........


I've not known you to be that choosey


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## Bobby (Dec 21, 2002)

Mike McDonald said:


> In my limited experience those who spend the time to have good dogs *also spend the time to enhance their shooting *and understanding of habitat.
> 
> It parallels the thought that good handlers handle good dogs.


Not in my case. I only have so much time, it goes to dog training not shooting. I don't care as much about killing birds as having good dogs who find birds.


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## anon21511 (Jan 13, 2006)

GSP Gal said:


> Can I get a AMEN! :lol:
> 
> and- if my ability doesn't hinder me enough, I missed one of Schatzie's best grouse finds, and as I was swinging on it, I found the tree branch with my barrel!
> 
> She's is gonna find me a new home---


 Your shooting isn't completely ineffective Sandy. I use your shooting as an early warning system to help me track the flight path for my shot!:lol:


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## Double Gun (Feb 22, 2005)

Mike McDonald said:


> With their hunting techniques and style, yes.


If their dad had owned setters when they were growing up do you think their hunting stlye would be different? I believe they would still kill a pile of birds and own 4 brag dog setters.


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## Mike McDonald (Sep 10, 2007)

Double Gun said:


> If their dad had owned setters when they were growing up do you think their hunting stlye would be different? I believe they would still kill a pile of birds and own 4 brag dog setters.


I agree. mac


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

NATTY BUMPO said:


> Mac,
> 
> I'm not sure either but I think you could say the same about a fieldbred ECS, ESS, or a AWS.
> 
> ...


Rod, if you use Mac's system you cant make that argument. But i dont know or care either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kellyM87 (Oct 23, 2008)

Wow, did this forum digress!!!
I asked about competitive hunting differences between pointers and setters and people started talking about GSPs and flushing dogs!!!

I guess the only conclusion I can make is that I get a pointer for litter and see where it takes me.

Ill probably be the crazy dog women anyways, no reason not to start now.


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## Flash01 (Jun 12, 2008)

As far as NSTRA goes, here are the top performing dogs last year...

http://www.nstra.org/top_performance_award.htm

It doesnt tell the entire story cause its based upon points and some of these guys travel to trial almost every weekend, whereas some other very talented dogs trial a lot less often.

The bottom line, imo, is that there are exceptional dogs of every breed. 

The arguement that there was a lot of setters in pointers in the 40's is lost on me. There was a lot of each of the major hunting breed (setters, pointers, gsp) in the late 1800's all the way til today. The "purists" dont like to talk about it, but it seems like an unavoidable fact to me based upon my limited research.

The much more interesting thing to me is the humans that have the ability to consistantly get the most out of these dogs. The guys that find a way to win with the dogs they have selected. Anyone can walk behind a gifted dog, but only a handful can bring out the best in every (or almost every) dog they train.


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## Jay Johnson (Jan 10, 2008)

"As I've written on this forum before if you really want to compare hunting dogs, count the number of birds killed in front of the dog and then it becomes simple. 5 is better than 4 etc. I'm not sure but I think that if you used my system for the people that use this forum we might all be thinking about a flushing lab. mac mc d ps I have setters"

The best grouse killers I know of (save one who uses a golden retriever) all use setters. That is one of the reasons I switched from retrievers and flushers to grouse gun dog setters nearly 30 years ago.


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## Peterson (Jun 19, 2010)

kellyM87 said:


> ... I am having trouble deciphering people who are breed biased from people who are unbiased.


I'm biased....I like dogs better than people.


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## RecurveRx (Jun 21, 2004)

Peterson said:


> I'm biased....I like dogs better than people.



Best post I've read in a while.


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## Merimac (Jan 17, 2006)

WestCoastHunter said:


> Strictly in the competitive dog arena, it has been my observation for a while now that breeders of other breeds often say they are trying to create dogs that can equal the abilities of the Pointer. But you never see Pointer breeders saying they are trying to match the traits of other breeds.
> 
> That should tell you something.
> 
> Breed popularity on the other hand is a whole other story.


 Ever heard of Strut who I think is out of blackhawk? Do you wonder why he is a tri color pointer?


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## Merimac (Jan 17, 2006)

Induna said:


> Go back to the 40's and you'll find a LOT of Setter blood in pointers. Setters dominated ALL trial venues. The pointer people made a concerted effort to improve the breed any way they could, alot of it under the table. It worked very well. Now with the Setter awards Setter breeders have an incentive to upgrade Setters. Will the same thing happen, probably.
> You can add Red and Gordon Setters in the under the table breeding also. I've seen with my own eyes a litter of Gordons from a Ch. horse back sire that were 80% white, I had pick of the litter and passed.


Bingo


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## rascal trophy fishing (Dec 3, 2008)

GSP's for me. Good post Peterson, great point/r.


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