# Cracked Hull



## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

GRUNDY said:


> I'm bringing it in tomorrow. South Side Body, and Fabrication in Holland. Gonna weld the cracks and then weld a little oval shaped patch over the offending areas. Possibly install new rivets through the patch, hull, and the ribs.
> 
> I'm not gonna mess with trying to convert the rollers to bunks. Just not worth it to me. After messing with the center rollers of the trailer yesterday, I'm surprised there was ever enough weight there to cause the cracks, uses he had it filled with a ton of crap once with it going down the road.


Those guys will do it right and they have been at it for a long time. They welded a skag on my motor once and when I got it back you could not even see the weld. They did it fast to and used a heat sink so I did not have to take the gears or seals out of the lower unit


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## ETW (May 18, 2020)

charminultra said:


> What Is the purpose of the patches? Just want to know if that is something I should do instead of the skid plate.


Patches when done right remove the cracked, work hardened material and allow one to replace it with sound metal. The fish shaped patch has few corners which are "stress risers" and where cracks will most likely propagate in time. The oval nature allows it to fit into places where other shapes won't. That's what I know about it. I'm sure others might add more.



charminultra said:


> Basically drill a hole at the terminous of the cracks. Then remove rivets, grind the cracks to achieve a bevel to ensure full penetration of the weld.


In thin aluminum there is no reason to bevel for penetration. Set your welder properly and you'll get it. Now thicker steel bevel for sure. Also, don't leave craters in your stops or restarts EVER. It looks bad and is another stress riser. Are you a welder? No offense but it sounds like you looked it up in a book. If you've never welded sheet aluminum I suggest getting a TIG machine that will do AC with Continuous HF Start and practice for 40 or 50 hours. Grab an old, decrepit aluminum boat off CL for $50 and turn it into a learning project. Some people find AL easy and others hate it. Definitely takes good control. Torch in one hand, filler in the other and the pedal for heat. Watching that puddle like a hawk and moving fast. Fun times for sure!


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## charminultra (Feb 8, 2017)

ETW said:


> Patches when done right remove the cracked, work hardened material and allow one to replace it with sound metal. The fish shaped patch has few corners which are "stress risers" and where cracks will most likely propagate in time. The oval nature allows it to fit into places where other shapes won't. That's what I know about it. I'm sure others might add more.
> 
> 
> 
> In thin aluminum there is no reason to bevel for penetration. Set your welder properly and you'll get it. Now thicker steel bevel for sure. Also, don't leave craters in your stops or restarts EVER. It looks bad and is another stress riser. Are you a welder? No offense but it sounds like you looked it up in a book. If you've never welded sheet aluminum I suggest getting a TIG machine that will do AC with Continuous HF Start and practice for 40 or 50 hours. Grab an old, decrepit aluminum boat off CL for $50 and turn it into a learning project. Some people find AL easy and others hate it. Definitely takes good control. Torch in one hand, filler in the other and the pedal for heat. Watching that puddle like a hawk and moving fast. Fun times for sure!


Thanks. I did take welding in school but aluminum experience is limited. All I remember about cracks is they grow unless you drill the ends out. Also aluminum has a tendency for hot cracking at the end if it is convex.


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## GRUNDY (Jun 18, 2005)

Heres the patch work. 5 spots that all look like this. I think it looks great. All cracks were drilled to stop propagation, beveled and welded. The patch was welded over the cracking.

These areas are also full of tiny stress cracks. I bought a real POS.

Only issue I think is the rivets. 3 of the 10 new rivets leaked when I splashed it tonight. I'll have to see if they can re-do them and maybe smother them with 3M 5200 or something.

I recommend Southside body for any weld work. Great place and people.

I do not recommend me buying a used boat however. Big fail on my part. Im pretty bummed. This attempt at boat ownership has sucked so far.


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## fishinthed (Nov 7, 2007)

Looks solid. You can probably seal those leaky rivets with silicone or some such. Probably take on less water than a light rain shower would put in the boat anyway. 

My archaic '65 Alumacraft has served me well. I suspect that has heavier gauge aluminum than yours. The used outboards have been more of a learning curve, but I have a some very reliable ones now that are easy to maintain, with readily available parts, and no special tools needed.


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## CrawlerHarness (Dec 9, 2017)

GRUNDY said:


> Heres the patch work. 5 spots that all look like this. I think it looks great. All cracks were drilled to stop propagation, beveled and welded. The patch was welded over the cracking.
> 
> These areas are also full of tiny stress cracks. I bought a real POS.
> 
> ...


Looks good to me.....Can you share how many spots you had taken care of and an approximate price? 

Hopefully you find a way to get the rivet leaks addressed.


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

GRUNDY said:


> . This attempt at boat ownership has sucked so far.


The joys of boat ownership. At least it wasnt a glass boat with rotted transom and stringers, or worse, a de laminated hull where chuncks of it come off at 80mph


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## GRUNDY (Jun 18, 2005)

Yeah, I took for granted what money pits they are. Unreal how such a cheap boat can get ya. I pity people with big glass boats. I think there is more that can go wrong with the structure of those

I hope its enjoyable once this crap is all done.

Learned how not to buy a boat, and what tools I need in a pole barn if I ever manage to build one.

5 spots. A touch over 400 bucks. Like I said. Great place and people.


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## ETW (May 18, 2020)

Glad you're happy with it. I'd be pissed. The actual welding looks ok. Not stellar but okay. Did they have access behind the hull in those spots? If they couldn't actually buck the correct rivets then they should have just put a heavy tack where the stringers would have been tied in and left the patch with no rivets to leak. Just my opinion and how I'd have done it. For $400 you shouldn't have to fix the leaks yourself after the job was done. Welding shops can be hard to deal with if you don't have a really good idea of how it should be done. A lot of welders just get fixated on the weld and miss the bigger picture. I know because I've worked in shops like that and welded with guys that just welded it how they wanted to do it, never mind how the customer was going to use it. You ever need something welded right PM me and we'll talk. I'm retired but I still have a small shop and a Synchrowave.

Edit: Just saw it was a body shop. Body shops usually work in steel and grind all their welds out flat. No one ever really sees their welds. Lots of really thin MIG wire "tacks". They make it work well for body panel patches. Also, I really don't know why they used that kind of rivet. Is that Zinc coated or something? Ah well, its your boat. Hope it works for you.


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## piketroller (Oct 24, 2016)

GRUNDY said:


> Yeah, I took for granted what money pits they are. Unreal how such a cheap boat can get ya. I pity people with big glass boats. I think there is more that can go wrong with the structure of those
> 
> I hope its enjoyable once this crap is all done.
> 
> ...


Spend some time at a marina and see how many of those [at one time] six-figure boats are constantly pumping water out of the bilge. As long as the pumps keep up, most people seem to consider it normal.


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## ETW (May 18, 2020)

Bigger boat= more thru-hull fittings and stuffing boxes. More places for water to find its way in. I'm glad my 30 year old riveted Starcraft only sits in the water on a slip for a couple weeks each year. The rest of the time she's getting trailered somewhere. Those 2 weeks result in a lot of lost sleep even though I know the bilge system is working and she's on shore power.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

piketroller said:


> Spend some time at a marina and see how many of those [at one time] six-figure boats are constantly pumping water out of the bilge. As long as the pumps keep up, most people seem to consider it normal.


Many of those are running AC


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## piketroller (Oct 24, 2016)

Shoeman said:


> Many of those are running AC


Maybe in the middle of the summer, but all those boats pissing like a race horse right now sure don't have the AC running.


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## UPEsox (Feb 2, 2018)

piketroller said:


> Maybe in the middle of the summer, but all those boats pissing like a race horse right now sure don't have the AC running.


Refrigerators and Ice makers usually have pumps that need to be cooled via raw water.

Not sure what kind of full service marina would knowingly launch a leaky boat, just asking for more headache later when you're scramlbling to save the thing from sinking.

Also, yes boats are a fantastic way to burn money. We usually tell people maintenance is 10% of the original purchase price yearly. *Not the price you paid, but original MSRP. *Defer maintenance for a long time and its really easy to see why people end up with magnitudes more into a boat than they paid for it.


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## plumbdaworld (Oct 28, 2018)

lots of dehumidifiers also. more boat more money lol


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## GRUNDY (Jun 18, 2005)

They are also a fab shop and are known for doing good work. Those rivets will outlast the boat.

I wasnt impressed with the rivets either, but at this point I consider the boat a loss, so if I get 2-5 years before It craps itself I'm fine with that.

Good luck finding a shop that knows what to do with this thing anyway. 

Only way it could get done 100% is if I had the proper EQ at home.

For the right price. I would sell it.


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

ETW said:


> Glad you're happy with it. I'd be pissed. The actual welding looks ok. Not stellar but okay. Did they have access behind the hull in those spots? If they couldn't actually buck the correct rivets then they should have just put a heavy tack where the stringers would have been tied in and left the patch with no rivets to leak. Just my opinion and how I'd have done it. For $400 you shouldn't have to fix the leaks yourself after the job was done. Welding shops can be hard to deal with if you don't have a really good idea of how it should be done. A lot of welders just get fixated on the weld and miss the bigger picture. I know because I've worked in shops like that and welded with guys that just welded it how they wanted to do it, never mind how the customer was going to use it. You ever need something welded right PM me and we'll talk. I'm retired but I still have a small shop and a Synchrowave.
> 
> Edit: Just saw it was a body shop. Body shops usually work in steel and grind all their welds out flat. No one ever really sees their welds. Lots of really thin MIG wire "tacks". They make it work well for body panel patches. Also, I really don't know why they used that kind of rivet. Is that Zinc coated or something? Ah well, its your boat. Hope it works for you.


This place works in mostly Aluminum and they have been at it for 30 years that I know of. Never heard any complaints about them all the years I lived down there. As for the rivets did t hey know that t hey leak or was that found out after he picked it up. If worse comes to worst they make a blind pop rivet that some of the boat sites claim are the best thing going.


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## GRUNDY (Jun 18, 2005)

I brought it back today. They are going to address the 2 leaking rivets.


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## georgeb (Sep 17, 2008)

Just be thankful you do not have the last blo-boat i raced on. It was being raced in the ocean along the east coast, after a couple of years of hardcore Annapolis to Bermuda races, a soft spot in the hull forward of the keel was discovered. That defect could have resulted in the bow coming off during a race. That was fixed at the originals owners expense and then the guy I raced for bought it. After we raced it for 2 seasons he had to have a large chunk of freeboard between the mast and the stern on the starboard side re-cored. The next year the boat did not get splashed because the rest of the hull that was not re-cored had to be done (when lifting it to put it in the cradle in the fall, it crumpled at the lift strap) Total cost of the boat was close to $400,000 new, the original owner dropped $45,000 on the first fix and the guy I raced for spent close to another $35,000 to repair it the second and third times. You would think an expensive boat would be built with decent quality control, but not for this one and quite a few of the "sister" boats.


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## GuppyII (Sep 14, 2008)

piketroller said:


> Spend some time at a marina and see how many of those [at one time] six-figure boats are constantly pumping water out of the bilge. As long as the pumps keep up, most people seem to consider it normal.


Yeah, my boat runs a lot, but, thats heat/air constantly on and the shafts are made to drip, that keeps them lubricated when running, and rudders also have a packing that can weap. That said most people are probably running heat/ac constantly. My pump runs probably 2-3 minutes on then 5-10 minutes off..


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

Could have been a lot worse. We towed a new Crestlineole out. When we got to the landing the water was over the floor with the pumps running. I helped them get it on the trailer and there was about a 3 or 4 foot long crack on the bottom right in a crease where the aluminum was bent. The ownwer was really down and pissed at the sme time


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## Fishbroker1 (Apr 8, 2018)

GRUNDY said:


> I brought it back today. They are going to address the 2 leaking rivets.


So how did it end up working out? Did they fix the rivets? Hope Im not bringing up a bad subject


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## GRUNDY (Jun 18, 2005)

They are fixed "good enough" the two worst ones they replaced their steel rivets with aluminum and welded the head. The rest leak but not enough to amount to much.

I'll probably try to fix the rest of the steel rivets myself sometime down the road. Shouldnt be too much to drill out the steel ones and install an aluminum aircraft type blind rivet with a smudge of 5200 or similar, to seal it up.

I'm not inclined to bring it back. Good shop and all, but I think the boat deal is a bit outside what they are used to doing.

On a plus note. We finally put a few fish in it this weekend.


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## yellowbelly80 (Aug 27, 2004)

There is no steel rivets on a aluminum 
Boat. My Lund I replaced Probably 200 rivets. There’s a place on the east side of Michigan they sell a oversized head 3/16 aluminum rivet. Few beers a couple of buddy’s and a air hammer and a steel block they can be fixed the proper way. 
Blind rivets won’t hold up boats flex too much


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

yellowbelly80 said:


> There is no steel rivets on a aluminum
> Boat. My Lund I replaced Probably 200 rivets. There’s a place on the east side of Michigan they sell a oversized head 3/16 aluminum rivet. Few beers a couple of buddy’s and a air hammer and a steel block they can be fixed the proper way.
> Blind rivets won’t hold up boats flex too much


You can get those oversize rivets from Fastnal. I bought some and you buy th ebox of 50 or 100. These were 3/16 and had a 1/2 head on them I believe


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## ETW (May 18, 2020)

There is a very good reason you don't see steel rivets on an aluminum boat. In fact, you will rarely see steel fasteners used in aluminum manufacturing. Dissimilar metals do not behave well when placed in direct contact with each other. You get galvanic corrosion when they are immersed in water. You do not have to be a metallurgical engineer to know this. Any fab shop knows this whether they know boats or not.

So, when I see a shop use steel rivets in anything aluminum and then charge what they did for work that also leaks I say "lesson learned". The lesson? Stay away from shops that do stupid sh1t.


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## UPEsox (Feb 2, 2018)

georgeb said:


> Just be thankful you do not have the last blo-boat i raced on. It was being raced in the ocean along the east coast, after a couple of years of hardcore Annapolis to Bermuda races, a soft spot in the hull forward of the keel was discovered. That defect could have resulted in the bow coming off during a race. That was fixed at the originals owners expense and then the guy I raced for bought it. After we raced it for 2 seasons he had to have a large chunk of freeboard between the mast and the stern on the starboard side re-cored. The next year the boat did not get splashed because the rest of the hull that was not re-cored had to be done (when lifting it to put it in the cradle in the fall, it crumpled at the lift strap) Total cost of the boat was close to $400,000 new, the original owner dropped $45,000 on the first fix and the guy I raced for spent close to another $35,000 to repair it the second and third times. You would think an expensive boat would be built with decent quality control, but not for this one and quite a few of the "sister" boats.


Haha, yea. Sounds about right, just speculating was the boat French, or a newish J?


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## Bucket-Back (Feb 8, 2004)

fishinthed said:


> Since those cracks are well away from contact points. I don't see why you can't glue some aluminum flashing material on top of the cracks with marine epoxy, and round and smooth the edges after it's done. It's available in 10ft X 6in rolls in the roofing section of home improvement stores, and costs on the order of $10.
> 
> The stuff can be cut with decent kitchen shears. I'd make the patch a bit bigger and round the edges, and of course sand the area with coarse sandpaper and clean it. It's the glue that would seal the cracks, the aluminum mainly to smooth the surface and provide extra shock protection against debris.
> 
> ...


I've used 3M 5200 Marine Adhesive to glue aluminum and steel patches on boats and cars. A rivet , screw or other mechanical fastener will hold until the 5200 cures.


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## UPEsox (Feb 2, 2018)

Bucket-Back said:


> I've used 3M 5200 Marine Adhesive to glue aluminum and steel patches on boats and cars. A rivet , screw or other mechanical fastener will hold until the 5200 cures.


5200 will do the trick, I prefer Gflex epoxy though.


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## georgeb (Sep 17, 2008)

UPEsox said:


> Haha, yea. Sounds about right, just speculating was the boat French, or a newish J?


 its a Farr design built by Carol Marine. i raced a J35 for a dozen years and that thing was a tank compared to the Farr


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## gatorman841 (Mar 4, 2010)

Here is some welding work I just had done to my aluminum Lund. This is the front livewell drain , stupid ass design as it’s right off the bow in front off the boat. Anyhow previous owner had it welded when I bought it , didn’t look like the best work but it held up until couple wks ago when their weld broke. Took it in yesterday got her back today , added a brace to the pipe and the weld job seems better then pry when it came from the factory. The before and after pics.


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## Fishbroker1 (Apr 8, 2018)

gatorman841 said:


> Here is some welding work I just had done to my aluminum Lund. This is the front livewell drain , stupid ass design as it’s right off the bow in front off the boat. Anyhow previous owner had it welded when I bought it , didn’t look like the best work but it held up until couple wks ago when their weld broke. Took it in yesterday got her back today , added a brace to the pipe and the weld job seems better then pry when it came from the factory. The before and after pics.
> View attachment 833088
> View attachment 833089


Who did the weld for you?


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## Fishbroker1 (Apr 8, 2018)

GRUNDY said:


> They are fixed "good enough" the two worst ones they replaced their steel rivets with aluminum and welded the head. The rest leak but not enough to amount to much.
> 
> I'll probably try to fix the rest of the steel rivets myself sometime down the road. Shouldnt be too much to drill out the steel ones and install an aluminum aircraft type blind rivet with a smudge of 5200 or similar, to seal it up.
> 
> ...


For sure replace any steel rivets. This is only going to bring you more headache down the road. Good winter project as the weather doesn’t really matter for bucking rivets.


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## gatorman841 (Mar 4, 2010)

Fishbroker1 said:


> Who did the weld for you?


Marks welding in brownstown


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## Fishbroker1 (Apr 8, 2018)

gatorman841 said:


> Marks welding in brownstown


Thanks. I like to have names. Good aluminum welders/shops are hard to find.


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## ETW (May 18, 2020)

Is it just me or does that 90 look really sketchy? The repair welding you had done looks like it will hold but I agree that is a bad spot for that drain. You can see that the welder had a tough time with contaminants in the aluminum around the drain. His support piece looks better because its new material. Repair welding can really challenge you because you are at the mercy of whoever tried to fix it previously. Lots of times an attempt to slap something like JB Weld or some other epoxy has been done or other sealers. That crap gets in there and it is a bitch to get out. If you don't get every little speck of it out your puddle will blow or boil up and its back to the grinder again. He did a decent job for you though.

But again, that 90 kind of scares me.


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