# ? For Deadshort



## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

skipper34 said:


> How far do your so called "friends" stretch legal? If it is like hunting with the DNR to them, I would stop hunting with them altogether.


Why?? I'll stretch legal as far as I can with out going over. My bases are covered.


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

petronius said:


> What is the laws as it pertains to a bicycle?



More specifically speaking.....


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

dead short said:


> I didn't personally take it as anti-gun. I took it as anti-road hunting.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire


I know you did not. It was a couple other posts I was referring to. It seems that everytime you ask a question about hand guns, the bugs come out of the woodwork. It's nice to know that the guys I see riding around on ATV's and UTV's are not violaters. Keep up the good work Dead short. I'm glad you're here to put up with us.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

petronius said:


> What is the laws as it pertains to a bicycle?


Bicycles are good stealth for deer. I've ridden up quite close to them on trails. Never tried to hunt them that way though. My guess is it's the same as any vehichle. Wear hunter orange, step away from bike and fire away. You must have a CPL though, if carrying a loaded pistol.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

dead short said:


> More specifically speaking.....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire


I guess my question would be if you could open carry a loaded handgun while riding a bicycle while hunting and if a rifle or shotgun needs to be unloaded and cased while riding.
While on a road traveling through state land, do you have to get off the bike before you shoot?


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

petronius said:


> I guess my question would be if you could open carry a loaded handgun while riding a bicycle while hunting and if a rifle or shotgun needs to be unloaded and cased while riding.
> While on a road traveling through state land, do you have to get off the bike before you shoot?


Here's how the law is written out.....I'll let you guys think about this and comment and then I'll let you know how I interpret it..... I have my thoughts on it in order, just want to see what y'all think too, before I post. 

_*Under the Natural Resources and environmental Protection Act...a bicycle is not a vehicle.*_

*324.40104 Definitions; T, V.*
Sec. 40104.
(4) Vehicle means every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported, except devices exclusively moved by human power.

*324.40111 Taking animal from in or upon vehicle; transporting or possessing firearm in or upon vehicle; person with disability; transporting or possessing unloaded firearm in or upon vehicle on sporting clays range; transporting or possessing bow in or upon vehicle; written permission to hunt or discharge firearm; definitions.*
Sec. 40111.
(1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (3) or (4), this part, or in a department order authorized under section 40107, an individual shall not take an animal from in or upon a vehicle.

*BUT*

From the Michigan Penal Code.....

*750.227d Transporting or possessing firearm in or upon motor* *vehicle** or self-propelled **vehicle** designed for land travel; conditions; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.*

Sec. 227d.
(1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel a firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following:
(a) Taken down.
(b) Enclosed in a case.
(c) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle.
(d) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.

*750.227 Concealed weapons; carrying; penalty.*

Sec. 227.

(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

Would bike be considered a motor vehicle under this law? Doubt it. A bike is not self propelled as per the definition of "self propelled". I say you can shoot while on bike. Not sure its a safe thing to do, but that's not the question.


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## magnumhntr (Aug 18, 2003)

My interpretation of the laws as provided above would be that it is acceptable to hunt/shoot from a bicycle ~ but the weapon could not be concealed unless the individual has a CPL. 

With that being said ~ lol ~ I would love to see this done ( from a safe distance of course ). Most people cannot walk and chew bubble gum at the same time... imagine the damage to ones person while riding a bike and concentrating on a target... Darwin would be proud ;-)

-Chris


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

magnumhntr said:


> My interpretation of the laws as provided above would be that it is acceptable to hunt/shoot from a bicycle ~ but the weapon could not be concealed unless the individual has a CPL.
> 
> With that being said ~ lol ~ I would love to see this done ( from a safe distance of course ). Most people cannot walk and chew bubble gum at the same time... imagine the damage to ones person while riding a bike and concentrating on a target... Darwin would be proud ;-)
> 
> -Chris


Wow ! Didn't mean to get you into this deadshort!lol I can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time! You must exit your bike magnumhntr! Letter of law!


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

This is fun stuff.....


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

magnumhntr said:


> My interpretation of the laws as provided above would be that it is acceptable to hunt/shoot from a bicycle ~ but the weapon could not be concealed unless the individual has a CPL.
> 
> With that being said ~ lol ~ I would love to see this done ( from a safe distance of course ). Most people cannot walk and chew bubble gum at the same time... imagine the damage to ones person while riding a bike and concentrating on a target... Darwin would be proud ;-)
> 
> -Chris


 Training wheels!


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

2508speed said:


> I never meant for my question to be anti gun.


I wasn't trying to be a crank but the comment about "let's change the law" so a legal CPL can not OC in/on a motor vehicle... I can't see how to interpret it any other way than more regulation... and that is anti-gun. If I'm wrong, tell me how. I am always open minded and willing to learn. I consider forums like this as discussion, not a 1-sided dictation.

Let's assume that a law is passed that redefines Concealed Carry in or on a vehicle and prohibits pistols from being visible. The DNR cannot currently override state CPL law, so the law would apply to ALL people (hunting or otherwise) at ALL times. Suppose a guy and his family are in a hurry, and dad gets pulled over for doing 36 in a 35. The driver has a valid CPL and a pistol on his hip or in a shoulder rig under his suit coat. Per duty to disclose, the detained individual informs the officer he's carrying. Then, the officer claims the guy is "printing" and its not 'concealed enough' per the new law. Now what's the prize? 

Or to prevent the above and protect non hunting 'common folk', some clause is put in that allows the DNR to regulate Concealed Carry while hunting. So then the NRC/DNR could ban CC while hunting, or place colorful restrictions that make legal CC while hunting nearly impossible. Are there any valid arguments why it would desirable for the DNR to have any say in CPL law?

We could sit around and convolute possibilities til the cows come home. I'm not seeing anything positive that isn't increased regulation / anti gun and not prohibited by an existing law already.

My understanding of current law is that an openly carried pistol in/on a vehicle is considered concealed. If there is no violation, an officer can not stop a driver / rider solely to check for a CPL - similar to the police not being able to pull a driver over just to check for a valid drivers license. So... how can the DNR stop and check you while afield for a hunting license if there is no apparent violation? Sorry if that's a hijack.


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

dead short said:


> Sec. 227d.
> (1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel a firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following:
> (a) Taken down.
> (b) Enclosed in a case.
> ...


In your travels, are you aware of any tickets been written for an unloaded, uncased long gun in the trunk of a car?


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

Quack Addict said:


> I wasn't trying to be a crank but the comment about "let's change the law" so a legal CPL can not OC in/on a motor vehicle... I can't see how to interpret it any other way than more regulation... and that is anti-gun. If I'm wrong, tell me how. I am always open minded and willing to learn. I consider forums like this as discussion, not a 1-sided dictation.
> 
> Let's assume that a law is passed that redefines Concealed Carry in or on a vehicle and prohibits pistols from being visible. The DNR cannot currently override state CPL law, so the law would apply to ALL people (hunting or otherwise) at ALL times. Suppose a guy and his family are in a hurry, and dad gets pulled over for doing 36 in a 35. The driver has a valid CPL and a pistol on his hip or in a shoulder rig under his suit coat. Per duty to disclose, the detained individual informs the officer he's carrying. Then, the officer claims the guy is "printing" and its not 'concealed enough' per the new law. Now what's the prize?
> 
> ...


I don't know what you just said! I am not anti gun or am I sitting around about waiting until the cows com home!


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

Could this be the first time a question to a DNR be banned? I hope not! Again I'm not anti gun! lol I'm pro law!


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

Quack Addict said:


> I wasn't trying to be a crank but the comment about "let's change the law" so a legal CPL can not OC in/on a motor vehicle... I can't see how to interpret it any other way than more regulation... and that is anti-gun. If I'm wrong, tell me how. I am always open minded and willing to learn. I consider forums like this as discussion, not a 1-sided dictation.
> 
> Let's assume that a law is passed that redefines Concealed Carry in or on a vehicle and prohibits pistols from being visible. The DNR cannot currently override state CPL law, so the law would apply to ALL people (hunting or otherwise) at ALL times. Suppose a guy and his family are in a hurry, and dad gets pulled over for doing 36 in a 35. The driver has a valid CPL and a pistol on his hip or in a shoulder rig under his suit coat. Per duty to disclose, the detained individual informs the officer he's carrying. Then, the officer claims the guy is "printing" and its not 'concealed enough' per the new law. Now what's the prize?
> 
> ...


All due respect Quack! Deadshort got my post right! I was talking about road hunting! If you want to road hunt legal with a CPL, more power to you and anyone else! If it feels good, do it! Nothing about gun ownership in my opinion! Ride the roads and shoot deer! Who cares, as long as it's legal!


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Quack Addict said:


> In your travels, are you aware of any tickets been written for an unloaded, uncased long gun in the trunk of a car?



No. 


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Quack Addict said:


> So... how can the DNR stop and check you while afield for a hunting license if there is no apparent violation? Sorry if that's a hijack.



If I thought it necessary, I'd use this section.....

324.43516 Hunting, fur harvester, or fishing license; carrying license; exhibiting license on demand; deer license with unused kill tag; exhibiting tag on request.
Sec. 43516.

(1) An individual who has been issued a hunting, fur harvester's, or fishing license shall carry the license and shall exhibit the license upon the demand of a conservation officer, a law enforcement officer, or the owner or occupant of the land if either or both of the following apply:

(a) The person is hunting, trapping, or fishing.

(b) Subject to section 43510(2) and except as provided in section 43513, the individual is in possession of a firearm or other hunting or trapping apparatus or fishing apparatus in an area frequented by wild animals or fish, respectively.

(2) Subject to section 43510(2) and except as provided in section 43513, an individual shall not carry or possess afield a shotgun with buckshot, slug loads, or ball loads; a bow and arrow; a muzzle-loading rifle or black powder handgun; or a centerfire handgun or centerfire rifle during firearm deer season unless that individual has a valid deer license, with an unused kill tag, if issued, issued in his or her name. The individual shall exhibit an unused kill tag, if issued, upon the request of a conservation officer, a law enforcement officer, or the owner or occupant of the land.


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

2508speed said:


> All due respect Quack! Deadshort got my post right! I was talking about road hunting! If you want to road hunt legal with a CPL, more power to you and anyone else! If it feels good, do it! Nothing about gun ownership in my opinion! Ride the roads and shoot deer! Who cares, as long as it's legal!


Ease up, dude. I expanded on your proposal to "change the law" by adding some perspective. I prefer to live my life a step or two away from the line, not standing on it...


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

dead short said:


> If I thought it necessary, I'd use this section.....
> 
> 324.43516


A+, thanks. I figured there had to be something like that on the books.


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