# Muzzleloading Pistol/Rifle Laws?



## jbierling

What are the laws in Michigan for muzzleloading pistols and rifles governing things such as barrel and overall length?


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## UPhiker

Be more specific on the information you are looking for. Since they aren't legally considered firearms for recordkeeping purposes, regular firearms regulations don't apply.


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## jbierling

What regulations do apply?

Could you carry one during bow hunting season?

Could you use one that had a short barrel (pistol/handgun) for deer hunting?

Could you carry one concealed?

Could you shorten the barrel to any length you wish?

Could you have any sort of stock installed?

etc...


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## BR549

Michigan hunting guide
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10366_37141_37706-31578--,00.html
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10366_37141_37706-31579--,00.html
http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164-17334_17362_22672---,00.html
You can only carry a pistol during bow season if you have a CCW permit.
You can use a black powder pistol during the firearm season. 
You can only carry it concealed if you have a CCW. A pistol in a holster is not considered concealed as long as the holster is outside the clothing.
If you put a stock on a pistol, it's now a rifle under Michigan law. A rifle with a total overall length under 26" is considered a "short barreled rifle" and is illegal. A rifle under 30" TOL is considered a pistol and registered as such.
There is no barrel length limit on a pistol.
There is no caliber requirement listed for black powder muzzle loader, but there is a .35 caliber limit with straight wall cartridge limit for a smokeless powder pistol.


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## jbierling

BR549 said:


> You can use a black powder pistol during the firearm season.
> You can only carry it concealed if you have a CCW. A pistol in a holster is not considered concealed as long as the holster is outside the clothing.
> If you put a stock on a pistol, it's now a rifle under Michigan law. A rifle with a total overall length under 26&quot; is considered a &quot;short barreled rifle&quot; and is illegal. A rifle under 30&quot; TOL is considered a pistol and registered as such.
> There is no barrel length limit on a pistol.
> There is no caliber requirement listed for black powder muzzle loader, but there is a .35 caliber limit with straight wall cartridge limit for a smokeless powder pistol.


 Right those are the laws as they apply to normal guns/firearms, but if a muzzleloader with a long barrel isn't a firearm, would a muzzleloader with a short barrel be a "pistol" legally? The thing is, I find some references that say that muzzleloaders *are* firearms, just that they're governed under a different set of rules since they are antiques/aren't modern.


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## RAMBOY

Do I need a handgun permit in Michigan to purchase a black powder pistol?


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## Nick Adams

jbierling said:


> Right those are the laws as they apply to normal guns/firearms, but if a muzzleloader with a long barrel isn't a firearm...


There are a variety of Federal and State laws that apply. They don't all treat muzzleloaders the same. You have to comply with both the Federal and the State laws as they apply to firearms.

Under the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 a muzzleloader is not a controlled firearm (i.e. you can mail order a muzzeloading rifle or shotgun from out of state). Many state laws treat muzzleloaders the same as modern firearms (i.e. blackpowder handguns are treated the same as regular handguns under Michigan law).

-na


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## fr3db3ar

RAMBOY said:


> Do I need a handgun permit in Michigan to purchase a black powder pistol?



NO, I just went the sherrif's office to get a purchase permit in case I bought a standard revolver. They told me a permit is not required to purchase a black powder revolver....and Cabela's didn't ask me for one @ the store. I'm still checking in to see if you have to have one registered to hunt with....I can't understand why you would.

HTH


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## k8vf

I tried explaining this to the Iosco county sherrif's Dept..asked them to check with State police, "Not needed to do so, I KNOW it is required to have a purchase permit" he says.

The state law is clear on this, but apparently not all counties are up to date.


I am ALSO having trouble now buying a black powder rifle, pistol, and SABOT ROUNDS from Sportsmansguide.


They say it is Illegal. In 2010?

Not as far as I can determine.


K8VF


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## M1-Boy

k8vf said:


> I tried explaining this to the Iosco county sherrif's Dept..asked them to check with State police, "Not needed to do so, I KNOW it is required to have a purchase permit" he says.
> 
> The state law is clear on this, but apparently not all counties are up to date.
> 
> 
> I am ALSO having trouble now buying a black powder rifle, pistol, and SABOT ROUNDS from Sportsmansguide.
> 
> 
> They say it is Illegal. In 2010?
> 
> Not as far as I can determine.
> 
> 
> K8VF


_ I just had the same problem today, only it was a lady I talked to, I told her that I was given a 1851 Colt Navy replica by a neighbor, but I looked into it first to see if I needed a purchase permit to receive it and also if I needed to register it. I told her the same thing, I told her the Michigan State Police Website says I don't need a purchase permit and don't need to register it, I also told her that the website says if its 1889 or older you dont need a purchase permit, even for replica's, she told me No, you need to get a purchase permit and have it registered. I called the West Branch State Police outpost and explained it to a Sargent there, she says to print out where I got the information and take it with me to the Iosco Sheriffs Dept when I go to register it. But I ended up calling the Arenac County Sheriffs Dept, they were much more understanding, I'm just gonna get a purchase permit and have it registered so there's so fuss. As soon as I seen this I had to comment, Iosco Country really needs to be brought up to speed about this stuff._


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## Petronius

M1-Boy said:


> _ I just had the same problem today, only it was a lady I talked to, I told her that I was given a 1851 Colt Navy replica by a neighbor, but I looked into it first to see if I needed a purchase permit to receive it and also if I needed to register it. I told her the same thing, I told her the Michigan State Police Website says I don't need a purchase permit and don't need to register it, I also told her that the website says if its 1889 or older you dont need a purchase permit, even for replica's, she told me No, you need to get a purchase permit and have it registered. I called the West Branch State Police outpost and explained it to a Sargent there, she says to print out where I got the information and take it with me to the Iosco Sheriffs Dept when I go to register it. But I ended up calling the Arenac County Sheriffs Dept, they were much more understanding, I'm just gonna get a purchase permit and have it registered so there's so fuss. As soon as I seen this I had to comment, Iosco Country really needs to be brought up to speed about this stuff._


The law changed a few years ago. There is NO registration for black powder handguns. The is NO purchase permit for purchasing one. You will be wasting your time and money getting a permit. There is absolutely no reason to even try to register one. Why anyone would want to is beyond me.
While the federal government does not consider muzzle loaders and cap and ball handguns to be firearms, the State of Michigan does. The difference between black powder handguns and modern centerfire and rim fire handguns is Michigan does not register black powder.


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## M1-Boy

Then someone should tell that to the idiots over in iosco county. Because apparently they arent up to spend nor do they sound like they want to be brought up to speed.


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## junkman

There is no barrel length restrictions or overall length requirements for muzzleloading rifles.There is no such thing as a SBR muzzleloader.A few years ago I wanted to build a muzzleloading handgun for hunting.I used a Knight Disc as the platform.Befor I put a saw to that rifle I checked every law that would apply and talked to the officer in my city that takes care of handgun registration.He even looked up the state and federal laws.His conclusion was have fun and be safe.


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## Petronius

junkman said:


> There is no barrel length restrictions or overall length requirements for muzzleloading rifles.There is no such thing as a SBR muzzleloader.A few years ago I wanted to build a muzzleloading handgun for hunting.I used a Knight Disc as the platform.Befor I put a saw to that rifle I checked every law that would apply and talked to the officer in my city that takes care of handgun registration.He even looked up the state and federal laws.His conclusion was have fun and be safe.


Single shot smooth bore black powder pistols are common and legal. They are not classified as short barreled shotguns.


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## PapaFrog

To All, on black powder laws in Michigan. I bought Ruger old army back in 1972 or 73.
The debate on whether it need a purchase permit or be registered was going on then.
It is a shame the the ones who should know the laws (police, sheriff, and the like) do not.
The answer stated here are true and precise.


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## Petronius

PapaFrog said:


> To All, on black powder laws in Michigan. I bought Ruger old army back in 1972 or 73.
> The debate on whether it need a purchase permit or be registered was going on then.
> It is a shame the the ones who should know the laws (police, sheriff, and the like) do not.
> The answer stated here are true and precise.


The law was different several years ago. Back then, you needed a purchase permit for a black powder handgun and had to register it, unless it was for display only. But I never heard of any dealer who would sell one without a purchase permit. How was the dealer to know if you were going to shoot it or display it?
But since the law change, black powder handguns are not registered at all. Buying one is a as easy as buying a black powder rifle, as long as it does not use a conventional firearm frame.


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## PapaFrog

Since I have not bought any black powder pieces since the 1970’s and did not to get a purchase permit and did not need to register them either then. So from I am reading here that the laws were changed and now have changed again. I will not changed back because I do not what the changes were since I bought. Just glad that that you can buy without jumping thru hoops. Tho buying a modern piece today is easier today then in the past. You do not have go the locals to get a get permit. I thank you for the update


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## Petronius

PapaFrog said:


> Since I have not bought any black powder pieces since the 1970’s and did not to get a purchase permit and did not need to register them either then. So from I am reading here that the laws were changed and now have changed again. I will not changed back because I do not what the changes were since I bought. Just glad that that you can buy without jumping thru hoops. Tho buying a modern piece today is easier today then in the past. You do not have go the locals to get a get permit. I thank you for the update


The law did not change many years ago, by law, you had to get a purchase permit for a black powder handgun unless it was for display only. Maybe the person who sold it to you in the 1970s did not understand the state law. You had to have a purchase permit for an airgun pellet pistol also. The law changed recently for both airgun pellet pistols and black powder handguns.


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