# Determining if land is public accessable or private??



## Crazy Axe (Mar 11, 2007)

I just started floating the Flint last year, and fishing rivers all together about 3 years ago... It's just come to attention that some land that I have accessed the river before, and use as a put-in spot for floats, may be private and the owner might not like people using it. What can I do to determine who owns the land? Is there a map I can get from the township? I figure maybe I can use the "Locating a CO" thread and just ask, but I'm not sure they are going to know exactly where I am talking about. It's a delicate situation, and I love fishing there, but I'm not going to knowingly trespass on someone's land.


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

Get a hold of a Plat Map for that County. It will show who owns all parcels, whether private or public. 

NB


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## old professor (Oct 26, 2008)

To expand on the last post, you can buy a Platt book at your county clerks office. They cost about $30 to $40 dollars in most cases. Great thing to have to find out who owns what, especially if looking to ask permission.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

I agree, get a plat book. They cost about $20.00 in my area. Not only will you know of all the public land, including small chunks that may not be well known. But you will also have the names of who owns what.

I know a developer who purchases a new set for the countys around here every year or two....I get the old ones. If you know a developer or real-estate agent you might ask them if they have an older book that a couple years old that you can have. Plat books are a very important tool in my hunting and fishing arsenal.

Also for countys that you dont have, you can sometimes view or copy plat books at township/county offices and librarys.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Just remember, although Platt Books are a great tool they have a disclaimer right in them that states not to be used for legal situations as they are only updated every so many years and even a new one may not be 100% accurate. Property changes hands continuously. The only sure way to find out about property is to go to you county tax office. They know who pays the taxes.


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

Go to the county equalization dept. They have aerial photos with the boundrys maked on them and the address showing where the tax bill is sent to so you can try getting permission to access if it is not public. BE Advised that some of the lines are not that acturate as to where they should be. 

Some countys have this info available on the web.


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## Dutchman (Jan 17, 2000)

swampbuck said:


> i agree, get a plat book. They cost about $20.00 in my area. Not only will you know of all the public land, including small chunks that may not be well known. .




shhhh!!!


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## BIG BUCK DOWN (Dec 6, 2007)

Well if the property is not posted or adjacent to a agricultural area you can enter without trespassing. The burden of proof is on the landowner to inform people where their property begins and ends. I spoke with a CO in Saginaw and he said that the DNR will not even go to a complaint of trespassing unless the person has informed the trespasser verbally or by signage. He stated that the CO's are not bouncers.


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## Crazy Axe (Mar 11, 2007)

BIG BUCK DOWN said:


> Well if the property is not posted or adjacent to a agricultural area you can enter without trespassing. The burden of proof is on the landowner to inform people where their property begins and ends. I spoke with a CO in Saginaw and he said that the DNR will not even go to a complaint of trespassing unless the person has informed the trespasser verbally or by signage. He stated that the CO's are not bouncers.


Wait, I must be missing something here.. If they own farmland on the road and have a 2-track that goes down to the river, you can legally access that?


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## BIG BUCK DOWN (Dec 6, 2007)

Well Flinch the Recreational Trespass Law is in place to protect your average citizen. If you do not have the resources to buy a plat book or time to check with the county you can assume unposted property is public. That is the law.


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## 8nchuck (Apr 20, 2006)

If you go to the DNR website, under maps, it has county maps that show state/federal land. BUT... as Boehr said, that does not mean 100% it is still state land. The DNR is always looking for land swaps (It also shows what pieces they want on the DNR website) so the land could go private in a swap, or sale, and not show it on the map.

The tax records are the only way to be 100% sure.

And as far as the "Oh it's not posted so walk right on" I don't think I would use that method. It show a lack of:
1) respect for the land owner 
2) lack of willingness to try and find out for sure by asking a nearby land owner who may say "Yes its private ,mine, but you may hunt/fish it - thanks for asking. I wish all sportsmen were so thoughtful".

And some guys wounder why that can't find a place to hunt and why the land owner is such a ******


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## duxdog (Apr 13, 2008)

It is true that if it is not posted or ajoining farmland, you can access it. Go to the township hall in question and give them a description of the location and they will pull out the current owners info.


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## eagle_eye (Dec 13, 2006)

You dont need to buy a platte map, depending on the county your looking in. If you start here
http://publicrecords.onlinesearches.com/Michigan.htm
this will take you to a public records search in michigan. Click on your county. Depending on how up to date your county is depends on how much free info you can get. For my county i go to the tax base map which you will find under the Assessor records page. This map is an online version of a platte map. Zero in on the area your looking for. On that tax base map you should find the tax id number. Take that number to your equaliztion home page and you will find the all the information you need and then some. You'll get the owner, summer and winter taxes, if they where paid, and how much was paid for the property. 
This works in my county in northern michigan and is very helpful. Hope this helps.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

8nchuck said:


> And as far as the "Oh it's not posted so walk right on" I don't think I would use that method. It show a lack of:
> 1) respect for the land owner
> 2) lack of willingness to try and find out for sure by asking a nearby land owner who may say "Yes its private ,mine, but you may hunt/fish it - thanks for asking. I wish all sportsmen were so thoughtful".
> 
> And some guys wounder why that can't find a place to hunt and why the land owner is such a ******


Exactly right! Some people.


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## Crazy Axe (Mar 11, 2007)

Alright.. I'm totally confused on this farmland thing.
So this is the property in question:








There's a definite turn around and 2 track going down to the river. I've been told there are no trespassing signs up, but the couple times I've been there, I haven't seen any. There's also another piece of property where we've been taking out, that is farmland along the river. I know for a fact that is not posted.
I'm already guilty, but I don't wanna be that guy that just uses the property. There is a thread on here titled "flint river canoeing guide" and that's where I found out about the spots from, and for some reason I just figured since it was in there, it was fair game..
Until I figure this out, I'm not using those spots anymore. There are a couple of spots upriver that I know are public. The only problem is the take-out spot is a park that closes at dark :\
Guess we gotta start bright and early from now on..


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## duxdog (Apr 13, 2008)

You can put in and take out at any bridge alond the Flint. Like I said earlier, just go to the township and they will tell you who owns it.Good luck.

I do think it is funny though. The tresspass law is very clear but some always want to bring their own views into what should and shouldn't be allowed. It is either legal or it isn't. Isn't that what everyone on here preaches. By the way, if I am not mistaken that land IS touching farmland so it would not have to be posted.


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## Hamilton Reef (Jan 20, 2000)

boehr said:


> Exactly right! Some people.


:lol::lol::lol::lol:Tell that to boehr's buddies on the White River:lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Crazy Axe (Mar 11, 2007)




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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Hamilton Reef said:


> :lol::lol::lol::lol:Tell that to boehr's buddies on the White River:lol::lol::lol::lol:


You mean your buddies up there.:lol:


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## wyldkat49766 (Apr 21, 2007)

sirslurpee said:


> Alright.. I'm totally confused on this farmland thing.
> So this is the property in question:
> 
> 
> ...



I would start out by going to that house/barn/property to the right and asking if it is theirs or if they know who owns it or if they know if it is a public right of way.


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## 8nchuck (Apr 20, 2006)

I live in Chesaning. I know right where you are talking about. I don't see many cars parked there at all. I travel that way in the morning & evening. I would say you would be ok to walk to the river to get in it if you stayed as close to the bridge as possible meaning STAY on the M57 right away. 

Park the truck up at the bar and carry it down. Heck, maybe put in behind it. They may own to the river.

The buildings to the right are a Church. 

Why not use the public park across the river for access?


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## MIKE KOVICH (Sep 19, 2003)

the spot on your map is a public acsess. look up flint river canoe guide, click on the msu extension site and all the info you are looking for is their for the genesee co area.


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## Crazy Axe (Mar 11, 2007)

That's where I got the info on the spot from.. Britches posted it on this forum.. That's why I'm so damn confused. I've been talking to another member who says he called montrose township and they said the spot at the end of "Trip #8", Morseville rd, is private. 

8nchuck - like i said that park closes at dusk.. I've been on the river at 2pm in the summer and haven't gotten off till 11, 12 oclock. ALSO the question has come up whether or not the access spot at the end of that stretch is public or not. 

I'm gonna have some free time tomorrow.. I may try to make some phone calls and figure some stuff out.


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## mdad (Dec 4, 2007)

I thought the law changed several years ago on trespassing. I thought the property does not have to be posted. It is the responsibility of the hunter or fisherman to find out. The idea of it not being posted means that it is public access is stupid and is asking for trouble for all sportsmen that seek to gain access to private land. Who do we ask about the trespassing law and posted or unposted property?


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## MIKE KOVICH (Sep 19, 2003)

Are you puting in at m57 or taking out. If you are haveing a hard time finding spots to get out start knocking on doors.


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## 8nchuck (Apr 20, 2006)

sirslurpee said:


> That's where I got the info on the spot from.. Britches posted it on this forum.. That's why I'm so damn confused. I've been talking to another member who says he called montrose township and they said the spot at the end of "Trip #8", Morseville rd, is private.
> 
> 8nchuck - like i said that park closes at dusk.. I've been on the river at 2pm in the summer and haven't gotten off till 11, 12 oclock. ALSO the question has come up whether or not the access spot at the end of that stretch is public or not.
> 
> I'm gonna have some free time tomorrow.. I may try to make some phone calls and figure some stuff out.


 
Oops, I did not know about the park hours. Do they lock a gate?

Maybe the Montrose Tavern is a safe bet to leave your car/truck at.

Anyways that is not a state owned ramp so I think you are out of luck in that regard( parking a car). 

I think the "guide" maybe relying on the right-aways at bridges over the Flint River to portage to/from.


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## Crazy Axe (Mar 11, 2007)

I'm pretty sure they lock the gate. I've been locked in Richfield park before. It's embarassing to call 911 to get out, and when the cops show up (after taking their sweet time) they drill you for not knowing. I got a lot of "Didn't you see the damn sign?" and I kept repeating "There is no sign that states hours"
Turns out there was no sign haha

Anyway. So there IS a right-of-way for accessing the river at bridges? boehr can you verify this with your expertise?


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

sirslurpee said:


> Anyway. So there IS a right-of-way for accessing the river at bridges? boehr can you verify this with your expertise?


I can't give one answer that applies to every situation on this topic.


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## 8nchuck (Apr 20, 2006)

Sirslurpee, I try to find something on putting in at bridges and found nothing really.

I did find a posting on a Indiana canoing website on the subject and as Boehr eluded to it is not cut and dry. 

This is pretty much what it says.

The proper term is "Easement" not right away. In many cases the property owner may own to the middle of the road, the ground under it, the state/county as well as power/phone /cable are granted the ability to service the road or lines on the "easement"

In this case you, private citizen, may not use the easement to access the river, without permission from the land owner.

Best to try and find out for sure but I could find nothing on it.

If you find for sure let us know as I was under the assumption you could walk down to a river to wad it by staying next to a bridge.


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## 1mainiac (Nov 23, 2008)

Most places in MI the property owner owns to the center of the road unless they own the property on the other side of the road. Depending on the type and classification of a the road the State or county has a roadway easement that extends from both sides of the centerline. Utility companies either purchase their own easement or lease from the state or county easement to install power, water, sewer or gas lines. There are also some common areas as well. And as mentioned land exchanges happen a lot as currently written MI trespass law is pretty vague as explained to me by a local cop which makes it tough to get a enforcement sorted out as to who has the actual rights to the ground you are standing on. As the property owner has title to the land and included in this title is all of the easements some of which may in fact make it a common area generally acess from a bridge or road way is considered public not always true but that has been a general rule for years. Now this is my understanding of the law not necessarily the actual facts but as I understand it.


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