# Zone 3 muzzleloader until New Years?



## Go Lions!!!! (Jun 1, 2013)

Bucman said:


> Being under title LATE ANTLERLESS FIREARM SEASON is why i believe it pertains to anterless only. I sure wouldn't want to find out the hard way.


Since you can use a .350/.450/or shot gun in the "MUZZLELOADER SEASON" I don't think your argument holds water. It is under the "exception" category. It was listed in the news release and also printed in the guide book. It is to appease the Muzzleload hunters in Zone 3. You can use any valid tag to harvest any deer. You obviously can't harvest a buck with a doe tag...but you can use any buck tag on a buck or doe...hence "ANY DEER". I'm done with this thread. But agree...if you are going to try to harvest a buck on public land with a muzzleloader, it wouldn't hurt to make a phone call to clarrify.


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## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

jiggin is livin said:


> Screw that! I am thinking jet sled and snowmobile! Lol


Not down here in zone 3, I do not no of *ANY* state land you can ride anything on including your horse!


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## wenz34 (Oct 4, 2010)

Can I hunt, any weapon, on Gratiot County public, from Dec. 4-Jan. 1.

The way I have read it I can, and can take any animal from Dec. 4-13, then after that I can use any weapon to take an antlerless deer, with any tag?

Am I right or wrong.


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

Bucman said:


> Being under title LATE ANTLERLESS FIREARM SEASON is why i believe it pertains to anterless only. I sure wouldn't want to find out the hard way.


I had a family member that is a patent lawyer reviewed the way the WCO is written and agreed as to what the intent was, but as written any deer should be legal.


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## Slimits (Jun 30, 2014)

The fact that it takes so much discussion and still isnt really clear really says something about our dnr doesnt it?


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## springIstrutfallIrut (Mar 30, 2012)

Ieatshrooms said:


> Pretty soon it will be just kill any deer with any weapon you want and throw any tag on it that you have anytime from Sept. 15 to Jan. 1st. Has to be the most worthless resource management in the country.


Its pretty bad...



Ieatshrooms said:


> I agree with your assessment, but it is despite the DNR, not thanks to them. Its because individuals are making the choice to pass deer and are learning from big buck states. The late antlerless was a great idea for the SLP, because we have too many does in a lot of areas and it gives gun only hunters a chance to balance that out...the last thing we need is more firearm time for shooting bucks.


Spot on.



Go Lions!!!! said:


> I'm not a DNR apologist. But why then, is our deer hunting the best that it has ever been? We have more deer and more "big" bucks than ever. Just follow the LFTS threads and take a look at the quality of bucks being shot...and passed up by hunters. And it's not just the rich guys with huge blocks of land. We have more mature bucks being harvested on Public Land as well. Is it Iowa? NO. But we have more opportunities for more sportsmen to get out in the woods and make memories while harvesting critters. I personally think we have it pretty darn good here in the Mitten. We can fill the freezer and have an opportunity at some really nice bucks! JMHO!


- we have not seen any long term effects of the recent regulation changes. We have been benefiting from the way things used to be. Why can't we have a regular muzzleloader season and a late anterless season anymore??? I don't get it


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## fishdip (Dec 29, 2010)

I believe they would of worded it as TAKING A ANTLERED OR ANTLERLESS DEER IF IT WAS LEGAL TO DO SO.I don't think you can shoot a buck with a muzzleloader during late antlerless.


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

fishdip said:


> I believe they would of worded it as TAKING A ANTLERED OR ANTLERLESS DEER IF IT WAS LEGAL TO DO SO.I don't think you can shoot a buck with a muzzleloader during late antlerless.


That is the think about wording in legal documents. It has to be precise. Any is not a precise word by definition is used to express a lack of restriction in selecting one of a specified class. They should have worded it to say that any tag can be used to take an antlerss deer, not that any deer can be taken


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

I don’t see what the confusion is about. Seems pretty clear to me as written.

Yes, you can shoot ANY deer with a muzzleloader on zone 3 public during the late antlerless season as long as you have the proper tag for the animal you harvest.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

Guess we will see in next month's " cuffs and collars" .


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## snortwheeze (Jul 31, 2012)

Go Lions!!!! said:


> DNR News release on July 17th explaining the new deer regulations for this season. This is a little more clearly stated:
> 
> 
> The muzzleloader season in the southern Lower Peninsula will be shortened to 10 days and the late antlerless firearm season will begin the Monday after the muzzleloader season concludes in the Lower Peninsula. Muzzleloaders can be used on public lands in Zone 3 during the late antlerless firearm season to take any deer with a valid tag.
> I think that's pretty straight forward. If you have a buck tag, you can shoot a buck with that tag.


I'm in !! better shoot the smoke pole 



Go Lions!!!! said:


> Yes...only Public. As I just posted...guys hunting Private have greater odds of harvesting deer anyway. Plus they get to use their .350 and .450/slug guns during "Muzzleload" season. I don't think it's terrible to give the public land guys an extra opportunity if they have the drive and passion to keep going out in the December weather to try to fill that tag. I don't see many guys doing that. Most public areas in zone 3 have already been heavily pressured all season.


When it GETS cold there's very few guy's on "my" public...very few 



jatc said:


> I don’t see what the confusion is about. Seems pretty clear to me as written.
> 
> Yes, you can shoot ANY deer with a muzzleloader on zone 3 public during the late antlerless season as long as you have the proper tag for the animal you harvest.




easier to ask forgiveness then permission under this circumstance !! hence confusions..

I run into CO's often on my buggy. I'll confirm this with them. Boy oh boy. I'm excited. Should be pretty easy to see what the deer are doing with snow on the ground !! handicap-cripple but I've got a buggy


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## Botiz (Oct 21, 2010)

jiggin is livin said:


> View attachment 607319
> 
> 
> The way I read this, I can hunt on public land, until Jan 1st with my smoke pole AND shoot ANY deer during the "Late Antlerless" season?
> ...


That’s how I understand it. Seems pretty straightforward to me.


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## fishpig (Mar 19, 2009)

I showed this to the CO that stopped by our camp on opening day. He agreed with me that the way it was worded you could take any deer with a valid permit. He said he would try and get an official answer but I never heard back from him.


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## ArrowFlinger (Sep 18, 2000)

Just think about it. The real goal was to simplify the rules. Complete failure


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## wallyg (Dec 31, 2010)

fishpig said:


> I showed this to the CO that stopped by our camp on opening day. He agreed with me that the way it was worded you could take any deer with a valid permit. He said he would try and get an official answer but I never heard back from him.
> View attachment 607635


Yep....... You can take a buck with your buck tag with a muzzleloader on PUBLIC land in zone 3 during late anterless season. Not on private land! You can tag a doe with ANY tag 
during all other seasons. Yes Your 450 or 350 can be used during muzzle season. Kinda like letting crossbows being used during "ARCHERY" season. I kinda agree with adjusting the buck/ doe ratio. Would rather see it going back to a one buck rule. IMO


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## Yankee#1 (Jun 3, 2015)

Is this a Cousin Ed and Clark Griswald kinda question? 

The subsection is listed specifically under the ‘Antlerless’ section. Sorry, but I read this as the exception is they’ve opened antlerless season to include using a ML on public land, not just private. The letter then further defined antlerless as doe, buck that has shed, BB or spike less than 3.

I would personally recommend NOT shooting a buck during antlerless season, on either private or public lands...

I guess another way that I think about it...

If you were reading the whitetail deer regs and it said that in Zone 1 you could shoot ‘any animal with antlers’ - would you assume that implied you could shoot a bull elk?



Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## wallyg (Dec 31, 2010)

Yankee#1 said:


> Is this a Cousin Ed and Clark Griswald kinda question?
> 
> The subsection is listed specifically under the ‘Antlerless’ section. Sorry, but I read this as the exception is they’ve opened antlerless season to include using a ML on public land, not just private. The letter then further defined antlerless as doe, buck that has shed, BB or spike less than 3.
> 
> ...


Yep, You are correct..........PUBLIC LAND........M/L only
You can take a buck during anterless season
Clark Griswold


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## Go Lions!!!! (Jun 1, 2013)

Why are some people refusing to believe this??? Do they not believe the part that you can use any firearm in zone 3 even though it’s under the “muzzleloader season” section. It’s plain written English. Shouldn’t be hard to understand!!! Dang it...got drawn back in to this thread!!!


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## Tracker83 (Jun 21, 2005)

Here is the language from the actual Wildlife Conservation Order, WCO 3.101(7) (private land during late antlerless), and WCO 3.101(7)(b) (public land during late antlerless):


WCO 3.101(7) defining late antlerless season on private land said:


> A late antlerless firearm deer season shall be from the Monday following the conclusion of the muzzle-loading and black-powder firearms deer season through January 1 upon privately owned lands within Alcona, Allegan, Antrim, Alpena, Arenac, Barry, Bay, Benzie, Berrien, Branch, Calhoun, Cass, Cheboygan, Clare, Clinton, Crawford, Eaton, Emmet, Genesee, Gladwin, Grand Traverse, Gratiot, Hillsdale, Huron, Ingham, Ionia, Iosco, Isabella, Jackson, Kalamazoo, Kalkaska, Kent, Lake, Lapeer, Lenawee, Livingston, Macomb, Manistee, Mason, Mecosta, Midland, Missaukee, Monroe, Montcalm, Montmorency, Muskegon, Newaygo, Oakland, Oceana, Ogemaw, Osceola, Oscoda, Otsego, Ottawa, Presque Isle, Roscommon, St. Clair, St. Joseph, Saginaw, Sanilac, Shiawassee, Tuscola, Van Buren, Washtenaw, Wayne, Wexford counties, upon privately-owned lands within that portion of Charlevoix county within deer management unit 015, and upon privately owned lands within that portion of Leelanau county within deer management unit 045. The late antlerless firearm season shall be open on public lands in zone 3 as provided for in subsection (b). Only an individual possessing a valid antlerless deer license issued for the deer management unit in which they are hunting, a mentored youth hunting license, a deer license, or a deer combination license may take a deer during this season. A deer kill tag issued under the mentored youth hunting license, deer license, or deer combination license shall be used *to harvest an antlerless deer only*.





WCO 3.101(7)(b) defining late antlerless season on private land said:


> Subject to section 43510(2) and (3), 1994 PA 451 MCL 324.43510, except as provided in subsection (5), an individual hunting deer during the late antlerless firearm season on public lands in zone 3 shall only possess or carry afield, or take a deer with a muzzle-loading rifle, muzzle-loading shotgun, or black-powder pistol, loaded with blackpowder or a commercially manufactured black-powder substitute. Only an individual possessing a valid public land antlerless license for the deer management unit in which they are hunting, a mentored youth hunting license, a deer license, or a deer combination license may take a deer. A deer kill tag issued under a mentored youth hunting license, a deer license, or a deer combination license shall be used *to harvest any deer*.


Note how in private section they are sure to exactly specify the harvest of antlerless deer only, while in the public land section it states "any deer". I believe the language here is crystal clear allowing you to shoot an antlered buck on PUBLIC land with only a MUZZLELOADER during the late antlerless season.
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/ChapterIII_128581_7.pdf


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

wallyg said:


> Yep....... You can take a buck with your buck tag with a muzzleloader on PUBLIC land in zone 3 during late anterless season. Not on private land! You can tag a doe with ANY tag
> during all other seasons. Yes Your 450 or 350 can be used during muzzle season. Kinda like letting crossbows being used during "ARCHERY" season. I kinda agree with adjusting the buck/ doe ratio. Would rather see it going back to a one buck rule. IMO


LMAO. A crossbow is archery........



Tracker83 said:


> Here is the language from the actual Wildlife Conservation Order, WCO 3.101(7) (private land during late antlerless), and WCO 3.101(7)(b) (public land during late antlerless):
> 
> Note how in private section they are sure to exactly specify the harvest of antlerless deer only, while in the public land section it states "any deer". I believe the language here is crystal clear allowing you to shoot an antlered buck on PUBLIC land with only a MUZZLELOADER during the late antlerless season.
> https://www.michigan.gov/documents/ChapterIII_128581_7.pdf


I like that they finally threw a bone to public land hunters. We can't have bait like private, but we can shoot their bucks! Lol


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