# Load suggestions for Muzzleloader



## GrtWhtHntr (Dec 2, 2003)

I am thinking about using my old cva sidelock muzzleloader this year. I have some Remington gamemaster bullets for it that are 365 grains. The place I will be hunting with it in is pretty heavy cover. My furthest shot would be 25-30 yards, so I don't need anything for long range shots. My question is, how much pyrodex do I need in this situation? My only experience with muzzleloaders is with an inline, which I use 150 grains of powder. Using loose powder in the older gun, I'm pretty clueless. I'm thinking 80-90 grains would do, but thought I'd ask others with more experience.


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## trout (Jan 17, 2000)

I shoot 90 grains in my .50 and it does good.
Rule is to start low and work up, no need to shoot more than 100 grs.


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## GrtWhtHntr (Dec 2, 2003)

If I start low and work up.....just how low do I start? How low is too low? I want to be sure to make a clean kill.


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## decoysdad (May 15, 2004)

you need to be extrememly care if this is a older gun. here is a site that may help. http://www.reloadammo.com/relblac3.htm
It really depends on which powder you use and caliber of rifle. 

NOTE: _*If you are shooting an antique, be extremely careful, even with mild loads.*_ Notice that there is quite a difference in amount of powder required for near maximum loads between the two brands of black powder. Carefully check which brand you are using and if unsure, start with mild loads and work up. You may exceed pressures for your rifle using the maximum loads shown, and should avoid them if there is any doubt. These heavy loads are for modern guns.

Hope this will help some

Happy hunting
Scott


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## GlassRodFan (Jan 18, 2003)

Hi,

You may want to check out CVA's web site. They have user manuals for their rifles, which contain their suggested loading data.

http://www.cva.com/warranty/Side.pdf

For my Traditions Hawken, I started at 50 gr of Goex, and worked up to what shot accurate groups in increments of 5 gr, which was at around 80 gr. That's plently to kill a deer.

Have you tried the real black powder, instead of the substitute stuff? You might be suprised to find out that you get quicker ignition with the real stuff.

Anyway, have fun with it. Muzzleloading is addictive!

Mike


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## Steven Arend (Jun 27, 2003)

I shoot a thomson hawkins sidelock .50 cal and a CVA sidelock .50 cal. muzzleloader with a 295 grains slug and I use FF or FFF powder. With the thomson I shoot 100 gr. and get a good grouping but CVA is all over the board so I use 90 gr. in the CVA to get the same grouping. Now if I shoot round ball throw all that out the window, I have to go with different amounts. 
I guess what I'm tring to say is that each gun, each slug, and each powder amount will give you different results. You will need to try them all, your gun may not group well at all with the 365gr. slug you may not to try different slugs and different grains of powder to find the one that suits you.

Steve


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## Randy Kidd (Apr 21, 2001)

I have an older .50 cal CVA Plainsman kit gun that I put toghether in the late 80s. Sidelock percussion, 1:48 twist. I am pretty sure I have tried every sabot/ Bullet/Minne ball and powder combination there is and it won't shoot those worth a darn..Now roundballs are a dream, Open sights 2 inch groups at 75 yards. 95 grains of pyrodex select with .015 patch lubed with bore butter. Point is you are going to have to expierment, and don't lock yourself in to using one certain type of bullet, CVA's especially the sidelocks are typically 1:48 twist, some of them will shoot a bullet and like mine some will only shoot a roundball with any accuracy..Good Luck


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## GrtWhtHntr (Dec 2, 2003)

The gun is approximately 15-20 years old, so I'm not too concerned about it being old and weak. Just looking for some guidelines for how little powder I can shoot to how much powder I can shoot. I'm not looking for a super powerful magnum load. I have the inline for that. I'm thinking that 80 or 90 grains would be good for the 25-30 yard shots I'll be facing?????


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## jmoser (Sep 11, 2002)

With my 'older' T/C flintlock (that I bought very used) I shoot 90 gr with a 350 gr 'Maxi-ball' or 'Maxi-hunter' style .50 cal lead bullet (no patch needed.) It shoots fine out to 55 yards, not a tackdriver but I did not expect it to be one.

That is using Goex FF Blackpowder, but Pyrodex is a straight up substitute grain for grain. My T/C manual lists 100-110 gr as maximum for these loads.

For a 30 yard shot I would not sweat it, 80 grains with a nice heavy projectile and you are going to punch it right through anything that walks by. Don't worry about the modern super bullets, sabots, or anything else. For your situation keep it simple, sight in first and just make sure you can hit an 8" pie plate at 40 yards or less.

Heavy bullets at low velocity are wonderful penetrators - I shot a deer last fall with my .45/70 rifle, Remington 405 gr bullet at around 1200 fps, in and out with a huge blood trail. High Velocity is only needed for long ranges and/or lightweight bullets.


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## Randy Kidd (Apr 21, 2001)

Don't count out the roundball, With proper shot placement it kills cleanly and quickly..70 to 100 grains of powder (any type) is good, With roundballs if you go much above 95 grains you start to "strip" the ball. a 1:48 twist is too slow to push any bullet real fast.If it travels too fast it won't have a chance to grip the rifeling properly and it will leave the barrel without spinning. That will get you really poor accuracy. If it were my rifle I would start shooting what ever type of bullet you like for groups at 80 grains. If that isn't good then I would try 100 grains. Then 90 grains. Pick the best group then tweak that load up and down 5 grains (some say 5 grains won't make a difference I know it does)..If you can't get acceptable groups then switch bullet types and start again. (ain't it fun). I personally would start with a true conical like the maxi hunters ect..If that one conical didn't work well then I would try the patched roundball. I never saw a CVA sidehammer that wouldn't shoot a roundball really well. If that does not group well, then it's off to the races to try and find a conical or sabot that will group. I know I wish I would have tried the roundball second instead of last..It would have saved me tons of dough..But then I wouldn't have had as much fun.


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## GrtWhtHntr (Dec 2, 2003)

Thank you all for your replies. I still haven't shot the gun yet. I did go out last night and I bought some round balls and patches. I will give those a try as well, see what shoots best. I have to think that the bullets would be the better choice assuming that they are accurate. I'm a little skeptical about using round balls on deer. Maybe I'm worrying about something that I shouldn't, just seems too primitive! lol. Although I guess that's the reason for using an older muzzleloader. Anyhow, I'll shoot them both and see what shoots best. Again, thanks for the help guys.....


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## Randy Kidd (Apr 21, 2001)

It does not matter what type of bullet you use it is where you put that bullet in my opinion. If it won't consistantly hit where you aim a big sabot or conical is useless. I have taken many, many deer with a roundball, Most will run like any deer shot with anything, A deer hit with a 30-06 in the heart or lungs can run 50-60 yards or more. You hit em in a non vital spot they can run forever. Same thing with a roundball. Farthest I have ever had to track a deer is 100 yards. I took the top off of both lungs, ( I was shooting up a small incline and hit a little high). But I have had them drop in their tracks too. Use whatever shoots best in your gun, If it is a roundball be confident that it will die just as quick if you hit it in the boiler room as it would if you hit it with a 320 grain conical, because it will. Good luck in finding the "sweet load" every ML has one and it's a blast finding it.


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