# Buying a tractor to hire myself out, worth it?



## lmholmes11 (Nov 12, 2008)

Since I am medically retired from the Marine Corps I am getting kind of stir crazy (even though we have three kids!) Since I am looking for a little extra money I'm really considering buying a compact tractor, probably around a 30 hp to hire myself out for tilling (food plots, etc), grading, and anything else. I'm good with a tractor and I really enjoy the work. So am I crazy for wanting to do this? I would probably travel for free (within a reasonable distance), I'm located near Owosso, Mi

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## bigcountrysg (Oct 9, 2006)

I don't think you are crazy, I think anything to keep you busy and make a few bucks is worth while. Just remember it will not make you rich over night. But it may fund your hunting trips or fishing trips.


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## Nodakhtr (Jan 15, 2013)

Lots of used equipment for sale and maybe able to find a good buy. Hope that you have the skills and the shop to fix your equipment.

Best to set up an LLC to protect yourself and you will need to get a contractors license and about 1M liablity insurance that is required by the state plus covers your as... if you push in someone basement wall etc. 

There are guys that keep busy doing these odd jobs etc, may want to consider a 40-50 horse, will have more torque and weight for stump removal etc.


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## Hawgleg (Jan 3, 2009)

Might want to consider a brush hog attachment, around here there is a need for someone to mow undeveloped plots of land. Local government agencies require mowing 3-4 times per year. We always had a tough time finding someone to do the job.


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## lmholmes11 (Nov 12, 2008)

Im wondering if there is a need for that here in Michigan. That would be a good gig. Any Michiganders know?


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## big show (Sep 10, 2007)

If you are looking to offset the cost of a tractor that you need, this is great way to do it. If not, it would be in your best interest to have a solid business plan. 

No contractor mobilizes for free. Either it is a separate charge or included in the price, making the price vary by location.

Many communities have brushhogging contracts.


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

I am sure you would make more money in the long run with a good zero turn mower.


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## lmholmes11 (Nov 12, 2008)

Im kind of doing it for two reasons. Like already mentioned, to off set the cost of a tractor for myself, and secondly to make some extra side money on top of my military retirement, being as how my wife is in school and we have three small children. Im really not sure where to start of who to contact as far as contracts and brush hogging, etc. Maybe the DNR? Would the MSU extention offices have a need for anything like this? Thanks for the input guys. As far as the vacant land needing mowing, probably contact some real estate companies? If anyone knows someone or has contacts that may be interested i would appreciate any help.


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## Nodakhtr (Jan 15, 2013)

lmholmes11 said:


> Im kind of doing it for two reasons. Like already mentioned, to off set the cost of a tractor for myself, and secondly to make some extra side money on top of my military retirement, being as how my wife is in school and we have three small children. Im really not sure where to start of who to contact as far as contracts and brush hogging, etc. Maybe the DNR? Would the MSU extention offices have a need for anything like this? Thanks for the input guys. As far as the vacant land needing mowing, probably contact some real estate companies? If anyone knows someone or has contacts that may be interested i would appreciate any help.


Contact your county road commission, some townships and small villages will contract brush cutting and spraying. You will have to bid the job etc. Since your are a vet and would probably valify for an sba guaranty loan with a business plan, operating funds. Talk with your local small town commercial lender/bank about your idea.


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## Nodakhtr (Jan 15, 2013)

Nodakhtr said:


> Contact your county road commission, some townships and small villages will contract brush cutting and spraying. You will have to bid the job etc. Since your are a vet and would probably valify for an sba guaranty loan with a business plan, operating funds. Talk with your local small town commercial lender/bank about your idea.


For this application you will need a brush hog on a hydrolic arm, having a loader and backhoe attachment would be a big plus for other projects.


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## lmholmes11 (Nov 12, 2008)

Thanks for all the replys.

Im kind of putting everything down on paper just to figure out if this venture is feasable or not, getting a tractor (with loader), trailer, tiller, brush hog and a harley rake for grading. Does anyone know approx how much insurance would be for an LLC? 

Also, today I went on the DNR website and got a list of every company that recieved grants last year and this year for wildlife habitat improvement, along with other programs like the wildlife division, etc that could potentially use my services, so I sent out about 30 emails today and have recieved around 10 emails back saying they would keep my contact info for future reference so hopefully that did some good. I am friends with the son of the head forester of Michigan Bill Oneil and he said he would forward the email i sent him to the Rose Lake Game area manager also. 

While looking at brush hogs on craigslist I did notice an ad for food plot services, so i just hope im not too late into the game


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## Nodakhtr (Jan 15, 2013)

lmholmes11 said:


> Thanks for all the replys.
> 
> Im kind of putting everything down on paper just to figure out if this venture is feasable or not, getting a tractor (with loader), trailer, tiller, brush hog and a harley rake for grading. Does anyone know approx how much insurance would be for an LLC?
> 
> ...


Years ago the mininum liability insurance was 1M for a contractor, maybe more by now. Contact Michigan DLEG for contractor requirements and they should be able to walk you through it.


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## lmholmes11 (Nov 12, 2008)

Ok I will contact them, thanks. I'm receiving more emails back this morning asking what I charge, and to be honest I have no clue what to charge? Can anyone give me the average going rate for tilling and mowing? Thanks

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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

Assuming 50% of the tractor is for personal use and 50% bussines you would need 75 to 100 dollars an hour. Your going to be using a tractor, attachments, trailer, and truck. My wife who is very good bidding construction figured for a guy who was considering the same type of bussines. When we bid grass cutting with a 9000$ mower we feel we need 60$ an hour with truck, trailer and other costs. One of the hinderances of going into the food plot bussines is the need for a comercial aplicators liscense to use sprays. Travei distance will make a big impact on profitability.


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## slowpoke (Jan 30, 2001)

lmholmes11 said:


> Since I am medically retired from the Marine Corps I am getting kind of stir crazy (even though we have three kids!) Since I am looking for a little extra money I'm really considering buying a compact tractor, probably around a 30 hp to hire myself out for tilling (food plots, etc), grading, and anything else. I'm good with a tractor and I really enjoy the work. So am I crazy for wanting to do this? I would probably travel for free (within a reasonable distance), I'm located near Owosso, Mi
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


http://flint.craigslist.org/grd/3651551730.html


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Don't forget the MDOT requirements... 1 Million Veh. plus 1 Million rider, Annual Certs. on trailers... trucks... Cheaufers lic. Minimum, Med. card. No spraying without Core, and crop certs. plus license (can you get one) I love the Dems.!....:lol:


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## VstarBR (Dec 15, 2010)

There is a guy in Laingsburg that does the same types of things. His business is "the Dirt Doctor" he is located on Meridian road about a mile north of town. Give him a call and see what he charges. At least this way you will know what the going rate is for the area. I know he tilled a large garden for my Father in law and charged like 120, it was prob 2 hours worth of work, and 3 miles round trip.


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## Nodakhtr (Jan 15, 2013)

METTLEFISH said:


> Don't forget the MDOT requirements... 1 Million Veh. plus 1 Million rider, Annual Certs. on trailers... trucks... Cheaufers lic. Minimum, Med. card. No spraying without Core, and crop certs. plus license (can you get one) I love the Dems.!....:lol:


 
I forgot about you will have to get a usdot number for your pickup or single x dump truck and trailer. Class B cheafers license would do it because of the cgvw for truck and trailer combination. All insecticides and some herbicides require education and appl license so that you can even buy the product let alone the application.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Nodakhtr said:


> I forgot about you will have to get a usdot number for your pickup or single x dump truck and trailer. Class B cheafers license would do it because of the cgvw for truck and trailer combination. All insecticides and some herbicides require education and appl license so that you can even buy the product let alone the application.


All pesticeds are under control of the MDA and require certification(s) and license for applying, including ALL Herbicides!


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## tmanmi (Sep 20, 2005)

MDOT regs have changed and no spraying for hire without a pesticide applicators license.

Public Act 231 of 2012
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(5v2rep453j0fvpizl3asil45))/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=2011-HB-5228
Public Act 231 was approved by the governer 6/29/12, assigned Public Act number 231 of 2012 and ordered to take immediate effect. 
)The Act provides that the State adopts a number of Federal motor carrier safety regulations. Under the Act, these regulations would not apply to a vehicle that is not a commercial motor vehicle (CMV) as defined in 49 CFR 383.5 and/or that is operated in intrastate commerce. Such a vehicle, however, would remain subject to 49 CFR Parts 391 through 393 link to applicable section of the act: PA 231 Sec. 1a (3).
Under 49 CFR 383.5, the definition of "CMV" refers to;
1. a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles that weighs at least 26,001 pounds;
2. is designed to transport at least 16 people;
3. or is used in the transportation of hazardous materials that require placarding.
FMCSR Parts 391-393 continue to apply and contain rules that pertain to qualifications of drivers (medical cards/driver files) and longer combination vehicle driver instructors, driving of CMVs (driver pre-trip inspection, RRX rules, fatigued or ill drivers etc), and parts and accessories necessary for safe operation (including safety equipment, lighting rules, brake requirements, cargo securement etc).
In addition, Sections 5(8) and 6(1) of the Act would not apply to a non-CMV that is operated in intrastate commerce. (Under Section 5(8), a motor carrier operating entirely in intrastate commerce solely within Michigan may not permit or require a CMV operator engaged in seasonal construction-related activities to operate for more than a specified number of hours in a particular period of time. Section 6(1) requires motor carriers to submit their transportation safety-related documents and equipment for inspection or copying to an enforcement member of the State Police Motor Carrier Division.

SHORT EXPLANATION: 
NON-CDL requiring commercial motor vehicles operated entirely within Michigan [in *intrastate* commerce] will no longer need to display USDOT numbers, carry proof of DOT inspection and drivers will no longer need to use log books. 
If you have a USDOT number displayed on your vehicle and you no longer require it due to PA 231, you may wish to consider removing it from your vehicles. The USDOT monitors carrier and driver compliance with the DOT rules by tracking violations attached to DOT numbers under the CSA compliance and enforcement program.
Call the Center for Truck Safety if you have questions. 800-682-4682 Monday thru Friday 8:45 am to 4:45 pm.


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## Nodakhtr (Jan 15, 2013)

METTLEFISH said:


> All pesticeds are under control of the MDA and require certification(s) and license for applying, including ALL Herbicides!


 
Thats funny because we buy roundup by the tote without a license for farm appilcation. Even walmart sells roundup in the quarts and pints without a license.


Probably need a license for hire plus liability insurance. God forbid you break a hose on the road and the DEQ is called in.


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

Nodakhtr said:


> Thats funny because we buy roundup by the tote without a license for farm appilcation. Even walmart sells roundup in the quarts and pints without a license.
> 
> 
> Probably need a license for hire plus liability insurance. God forbid you break a hose on the road and the DEQ is called in.


 You can apply unrestricted chemicals for yourself but you must be a commercial apllicator to spray for hire. Lawns are the same. A farm p
liscense allows you to apply restricted use chemicals on your own farm but not custom work.


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## Nodakhtr (Jan 15, 2013)

tmanmi said:


> MDOT regs have changed and no spraying for hire without a pesticide applicators license.
> 
> Public Act 231 of 2012
> http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(5v2rep453j0fvpizl3asil45))/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=2011-HB-5228
> ...


Any vehicle used for commercial business, even a messaging service and also for farm are required to register and attach the usdot id # that vehicle. If you operate a vehicle over 90 miles away from your domicle you are required to carry and use a log book. I cant see the diesel bear asking for your log book when you are hauling a backhoe in your local area but he will check for the veh inspection and usdot registration. If you do not have this requirement it will cost you, no inspection certification and they will red tag your vehicle. See mdot, trucker reguirements and or FMCA for regulations.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Nodakhtr said:


> Thats funny because we buy roundup by the tote without a license for farm appilcation. Even walmart sells roundup in the quarts and pints without a license.
> 
> 
> Probably need a license for hire plus liability insurance. God forbid you break a hose on the road and the DEQ is called in.


 
Yes, it is required for hire, and farm use. A private applicators Cert. & license is required for farm application. If you have a garden on you rproperty for your own use it would not be required. Also there are restricted use pesticides that can't be purchased without a license.....


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## Hawgleg (Jan 3, 2009)

lmholmes11 said:


> Im kind of doing it for two reasons. Like already mentioned, to off set the cost of a tractor for myself, and secondly to make some extra side money on top of my military retirement, being as how my wife is in school and we have three small children. Im really not sure where to start of who to contact as far as contracts and brush hogging, etc. Maybe the DNR? Would the MSU extention offices have a need for anything like this? Thanks for the input guys. As far as the vacant land needing mowing, probably contact some real estate companies? If anyone knows someone or has contacts that may be interested i would appreciate any help.


 Try Real estate developers and investors for brush hog jobs. What about a tiller attachment to work up ground for gardens etc. Advertise on craigslist and small papers. friend of mine also goes to auctions and buys things purely for the scrap value of metal. Good Luck


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Nodakhtr said:


> Any vehicle used for commercial business, even a messaging service and also for farm are required to register and attach the usdot id # that vehicle. If you operate a vehicle over 90 miles away from your domicle you are required to carry and use a log book. I cant see the diesel bear asking for your log book when you are hauling a backhoe in your local area but he will check for the veh inspection and usdot registration. If you do not have this requirement it will cost you, no inspection certification and they will red tag your vehicle. See mdot, trucker reguirements and or FMCA for regulations.


 
Also:

RIN 2126-AB02
Commercial Driver&#8217;s License Testing and Commercial Learner&#8217;s Permit Standards
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu.../rule-programs/new_rulemakings.aspx?cat=final
Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle&#8212;
(1) Has a gross combination weight rating* or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds *or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater; or
(2) Has a gross vehicle weight rating *or gross vehicle weight of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds* or more), whichever is greater; or
(3) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or
(4) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.
* * * * *

Posted 12/22/11Effective: February 27, 2012FMCSA*Hours of Service*
DOT has released the new hours of service rule. CVSA staff will review the rule and provide an overview as quickly as possible. The rule will be officially published in the Federal Register on December 27, 2011. The effective date will be February 27, 2012, and the compliance date of selected provisions is July 1, 2013. DOT has provided a chart, that compares the new Final Rule to the existing rule. In addition, they&#8217;ve provided a Frequently Asked Questions document, attached as well. You can view the rule here. Comparison chart is available here.


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## mooneye (Feb 24, 2008)

I think you would be better off buying a dump truck hauling sand and gravel. That sort of thing.


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## lmholmes11 (Nov 12, 2008)

Thanks for the help guys I've got some thinking to do. Ill keep y'all posted. 

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## tangleknot (Oct 8, 2001)

Like others have mentioned, you need to be certified to purchase and apply commercial pesticides. It is important to be aware of all Material Safety Data Sheets and keep up on all of that because you will want to be able to inform your customers of any re-entry info, etc., after application. 

Also, I am sure for insurance purposes and to be considered by some of the entities you are considering approaching, your equipment will need to meet certain regulations. For example, you would want to make sure the tractor has a Roll Over Protection Structure and functioning seat belt. There are lots of Regs and they are easy ones to satisfy. The key is just to be aware of them all. 

Farm Bureau is a great source. Attend a safety meeting, they are informative and the points can go towards certification. 

http://www.michfb.com/safety/alss

MIOSHA Regs:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/CIS_WSH_part51-53_83015_7.pdf

Good luck, it sounds like a great fit for your situation!! Not trying to be discouraging, just trying to let you know some things you will have to take into cosideration.


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## tangleknot (Oct 8, 2001)

I don't think you have to meet all of the requirements because you might not have enough employees, not sure how that works. However, in order to get the job, a potential employer might like to see that you do voluntarily.


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## MossyHorns (Apr 14, 2011)

Nodakhtr said:


> Any vehicle used for commercial business, even a messaging service and also for farm are required to register and attach the usdot id # that vehicle. If you operate a vehicle over 90 miles away from your domicle you are required to carry and use a log book. I cant see the diesel bear asking for your log book when you are hauling a backhoe in your local area but he will check for the veh inspection and usdot registration. If you do not have this requirement it will cost you, no inspection certification and they will red tag your vehicle. See mdot, trucker reguirements and or FMCA for regulations.


You do not need DOT numbers on all commercial vehicles. It only applies to vehicles that exceed the set gross combined weight. I have never had DOT numbers on any of the company trucks I have ever driven.


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