# drift boat discrimination



## birddog520 (Mar 16, 2005)

I have a drift boat and have recently bought a cabin in Roscommon. I think most who fish the holy waters and the mason tract know that the local guides and flyshops discourage driftboats floating these stretches. I have had guides pull over and let me by in the worst possible places where it takes some very tricky manuvering to stay out of the trees. I know they know what they are doing. It seams the local guides and flyshops are way more tolerant to beer drinking, litering, canoe and tubing people on the river than to someone floating a drift boat. (no I am not implying that most canoes and tubers are like that) I am not going to run out and have a riverboat built so I can live up to the romantic veiw of how to fish the Ausable. I will say that we do very little fishing from the boat in these stretches and mostly anchor and wade and use the boat mostly as transportation. 

So whats the deal? 

-Jeff


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## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

Youre the deal Jeff. This is class warfare at its worst. Some call it guide waters because if your not a guide, you are assumed not to be one with the river. No problem though if you have one of the accepted vessels. A couple of years ago another member took his drift boat down this stretch and every guide was rude and even some landowners criticized him for using that boat in the river.

They are insensible snobs who think they have more rights to the river than you do and if they can make your experience unpleasant, maybe you wont come back or tell other people about their little bit of heaven. Remember some of these guys have to feed their families from the tips they earn from pimping out our public waters and your just doing it for pleasure. 

How dare you!


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## WhiteyNorris (Dec 29, 2008)

I feel your pain. You think you've got it bad. We float a lot of small rivers in Michigan using our jon boat...we've been doing it for years. Now that guideshops and guides are flooding a lot of the rivers, we're suddenly the minority and we are definitely looked down upon as we drift by because our boat didn't cost $10,000 and we didn't pay for our fishing trip. Do we care? Not really. Does it leave a sour taste in our mouth when this happens? You bet. I hate to say it but then we start to judge people in driftboats. Classic river warfare. Its an unfortunate but sad truth. Not all guys in driftboats and other high-end river boats fall into that category though. I've had some very nice conversation with some guys that we've played leap-frog with on the river all day.
Its a public stream, you even have property...put your boat in, drift, fish, and enjoy yourself.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

About 30 years ago a buddy of mine took me for a short ride on the Holy Waters, in his jet-powered ski boat. It was quick, exciting, and garnered a lot of attention. We blasted upstream at over 30 mph for a short time. We briefly considered trying to waterski. :yikes:

From the response we got, it did not seem like we should do it again; and we did not.


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## ready4pullback (Jun 9, 2008)

birddog520 said:


> I have a drift boat and have recently bought a cabin in Roscommon. I think most who fish the holy waters and the mason tract know that the local guides and flyshops discourage driftboats floating these stretches. I have had guides pull over and let me by in the worst possible places where it takes some very tricky manuvering to stay out of the trees. I know they know what they are doing. It seams the local guides and flyshops are way more tolerant to beer drinking, litering, canoe and tubing people on the river than to someone floating a drift boat. (no I am not implying that most canoes and tubers are like that) I am not going to run out and have a riverboat built so I can live up to the romantic veiw of how to fish the Ausable. I will say that we do very little fishing from the boat in these stretches and mostly anchor and wade and use the boat mostly as transportation.
> 
> So whats the deal?
> 
> -Jeff


CORPORATE FLY FISHING SUCKS!!! Anybody who looks down upon someone who's responsibly floating and behaving as a sportsman should be taken out behind Spikes and beaten with their boatpole. Troutpimps... hosers is what they are.:rant: Jeez, I haven't even had any bourbon yet.


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## shanny28757 (Feb 11, 2006)

I havn't experienced this with driftboats vs. riverboats because I don't have either so I always wade when I fish, but...I have noticed this elitist attitude in general among many flyfisherman. I am new to the sport and these people are really turning me off. Myself and the guys I fish with are extremely friendly and like to enjoy the outdoors with others but some people I have met are just rude. Not only have people not been friendly, some have literally ignored mewhen I tried to say hello or have a conversation with them. What is the reason for this?

That being said, I have met some very nice people while fishing that I would not lump in with the other group. I hope my early experiences have just been bad luck and my future trout seasons will change for the better.


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## AllSpecieAngler (Jun 12, 2008)

I used to bank fish and wade the Au Sable alot and was regularly harrassed by guides drifting by. I remember once I had a nice steelhead on and a guide was floating close to me and started yelling that I better hurry and land the fish cause he wasn't slowing down and it better not snag any of his lines, and this guy (his client) is PAYING to fish here! I looked at him and said, "So that would make him the idiot for paying some hack to float him down a public river, and if he caused me to lose my fish he may as well turn around and head for the launch or I was gonna follow him as far as I could down the river pelting them with rocks the whole way!" I think he realized I was serious as a heart attack and backed off. We are all paying for the right to use these waters as we see fit via purchasing licenses and renting state owned camping spots like we did. Paying someone to take me fishing on a public body of water is almost as ludacris as people paying for guided stateland deer hunts. Just because we're not paying them(the guides) to take us fishing doesn't give them anymore right to the water than us. Although I know they feel it does. I'm not saying they all are this way, and actually had some that were nice as could be. Just my $0.02 from some experiences I had.


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## Boardman Brookies (Dec 20, 2007)

I have also had a similar negative experience with a guide on the Au Sable three years ago. I was basically pushed out of the water by this guide and his boat. He and his "client" made some idiotic comment to be since I was spin fishing. I do try some fly fishing but I mainly spin fish. That is my choice and that is what I was doing that afternoon. 

Instead of making rude comments and thinking that I was keeping every fish I caught they didn't bother to find out that I had caught over a dozen trout, some nice ones, that morning on barb less spinners let them all go. 

I tend to stay away from the bigger rivers now for these exact reasons now. I prefer smaller creeks and streams. I would never pay someone guy hundreds of dollars to fish a public river. Sure these guys put people on fish, but at what cost? And don't get me wrong, I have met some very nice people who guide, but they are defiantly the minority IMO. I think half of the fun is exploring a river on your own.


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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

> used to bank fish and wade the Au Sable alot and was regularly harrassed by guides drifting by. I remember once I had a nice steelhead on and a guide was floating close to me and started yelling that I better hurry and land the fish cause he wasn't slowing down and it better not snag any of his lines, and this guy (his client) is PAYING to fish here!


Totally sound's like Snoop.....


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## ready4pullback (Jun 9, 2008)

AllSpecieAngler said:


> I remember once I had a nice steelhead on and a guide was floating close to me and started yelling that I better hurry and land the fish cause he wasn't slowing down and it better not snag any of his lines, and this guy (his client) is PAYING to fish here!


That guy can be the first in line.


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## AllSpecieAngler (Jun 12, 2008)

ausable_steelhead said:


> Totally sound's like Snoop.....


Who's snoop? My incident was about 7 or 8 years ago. If that helps narrow it down. I am almost certain the boat was red and white if my memory serves me right.



ready4pullback said:


> That guy can be the first in line.


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## TheUrbanMustache (Sep 23, 2008)

Splitshot said:


> Youre the deal Jeff. This is class warfare at its worst. Some call it guide waters because if your not a guide, you are assumed not to be one with the river. No problem though if you have one of the accepted vessels. A couple of years ago another member took his drift boat down this stretch and every guide was rude and even some landowners criticized him for using that boat in the river.
> 
> They are insensible snobs who think they have more rights to the river than you do and if they can make your experience unpleasant, maybe you wont come back or tell other people about their little bit of heaven. Remember some of these guys have to feed their families from the tips they earn from pimping out our public waters and your just doing it for pleasure.
> 
> How dare you!


I dont believe it ray! I actually agree with you!


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68931


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## birddog520 (Mar 16, 2005)

Thanks for the replies,
I guess I havent had the same problems with guides as some of you. when wading I have never had a guide be downright rude. most times they will stay out of my way unless they see you fishing enough to recognize me then they may chat while going by. The only time I have had any problems is in my drift boat. It seams as they want they drifboaters on the PM or below Mio. They complain about the canoes stirring up sediment while they are dragging chains down the river?
-Jeff


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## Shupac (Apr 17, 2005)

shanny28757 said:


> I havn't experienced this with driftboats vs. riverboats because I don't have either so I always wade when I fish, but...I have noticed this elitist attitude in general among many flyfisherman. I am new to the sport and these people are really turning me off. Myself and the guys I fish with are extremely friendly and like to enjoy the outdoors with others but some people I have met are just rude. Not only have people not been friendly, some have literally ignored mewhen I tried to say hello or have a conversation with them. What is the reason for this?
> 
> That being said, I have met some very nice people while fishing that I would not lump in with the other group. I hope my early experiences have just been bad luck and my future trout seasons will change for the better.


As for the drift boat issue if you can keep it clear of the banks and the bottom, go for it. As for unfriendly people in general, I know exactly what you're talking about. I think some fishermen dislike being around other fishermen period--they want their solitude, even on popular waters, and if you happen to run into them, you're "intruding." (There's an easy way to fix that problem of course--if you want solitude, wade a little further, get a boat, or fish the unsung rivers). I like my solitude too, and usually find it by the methods above. But I figure other anglers (regardless of what they fish with, and I fly fish 99.9 percent of the time) are kindred spirits of a sort, and I'll always say hi and chat a bit if they're inclined.


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## Fishigan21 (Feb 22, 2006)

Birddog,

I have had similiar experiences on the main branch. The fly shop there was no help when they found out I had a drift boat. I shop at Bob's store now...he's a good guy and cares about catching fish, not fancy wood boats.


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## AllSpecieAngler (Jun 12, 2008)

I would love to have a CO with me when these a-holes cut loose like that. If they've never heard of angler harrassment they would as soon as he handed them their ticket. Its amazing to me that other anglers would harrass fellow sportsman reguardless of their method of choice. People need to realize they don't own public waters and to just shut their mouths and leave people alone.


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

I have found in these matters, when you run into a jackass, you become a bigger one. Comes natural to me. When that just doesn't work, helps to have a fishing partner called big John along.


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## turtlehead (Oct 26, 2004)

Shupac said:


> As for the drift boat issue if you can keep it clear of the banks and the bottom, go for it. As for unfriendly people in general, I know exactly what you're talking about. I think some fishermen dislike being around other fishermen period--they want their solitude, even on popular waters, and if you happen to run into them, you're "intruding." (There's an easy way to fix that problem of course--if you want solitude, wade a little further, get a boat, or fish the unsung rivers). I like my solitude too, and usually find it by the methods above. But I figure other anglers (regardless of what they fish with, and I fly fish 99.9 percent of the time) are kindred spirits of a sort, and I'll always say hi and chat a bit if they're inclined.



Good post. My 2 cents... I have a drift boat that my dad and I built to fish below Mio. At 17 feet long and 52 inches wide, it is the ideal vessel for that water. It is also good from Conners on down. But much farther upstream, it becomes a pain in the ****. Smith to McMasters in late June was a struggle. Once we put in at Wakely and got the comment from a back yarder - "biggest boat I've ever seen on the river". We didn't take offense, but looking back, maybe we should have. We have never floated it on the Holy Water or Mason Tract. IMO my boat is way too much boat for those parts of the river. I only fish the Holy Water in the winter and early spring because of the amount of people anyway. (And wade when I do)

I'm currently finishing a small pram/drifter that I designed specifically for the upper river and the South Branch. 48" bottom, 56" at the oarlocks and 10 feet long, it should spin on a dime and fits in the back of my pick up. Much more stable and manuverable than an Au Sable boat. (Shameless plug for my fledgling boat building business) And I must admit that the Au Sable Boat is on the build list as well.

That said, if that's what floats your boat, go for it and screw those guys who give you crap. I've seen drift boats on all of the stretches and it doesn't bother me one bit. The old timers will just have to get over it.

Todd


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## JEHazeltine (Oct 22, 2003)

Drifted the holy waters three weekends ago in a clacka throwing streamers all day and didnt get any negative comments from the four or five guys who were fishing in front of their places.


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## tommy-n (Jan 9, 2004)

Too much drama

who care's what they think, you have just as much a right as them to use your boat and fish the water. The great thing about using the boat is you don;t have to hang around and look or listen to them too long if it gets old, just float away when you get tired of it


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## Beaglernr (Dec 1, 2002)

Drift boats were made for and designed for large rivers out west, yep I have used them out there in nasty water they work great. On our local larger rivers they work fine but the water you are talking about on the AuSable is narrow and often skinny water. I have seen guys taking drift boats down where they could not even use oars as they touch both banks. Canoe, AuSable river boats can be paddled or poled not crowding the whole section of river. 
As a fisherman who has used them I have not desire to take a oversized boat down a small stream just cause I own one. 
I have been pushed off a river to make room for some people who take a over size boat down the river find it rude. 
They are great boats in the right river...small streams such as upper mainstream, north branch and most of the south branch are just too darn small. Below mio...big water they work fine. Get a boat to match your water and you will have far more fun, fishing the in that water with a AuSable River boat is far more fun than the big water boat. Heck..Get hold of Craig Kiev at Golden Drake fly shop in Dexter, get one of his outstanding fishing kayaks and a stinger you will love it for your cabin water.


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## birddog520 (Mar 16, 2005)

> have been pushed off a river to make room for some people who take a over size boat down the river find it rude.
> They are great boats in the right river...small streams such as upper mainstream, north branch and most of the south branch are just too darn small


[/COLOR] 
I understand what your saying about the size of river but....
I floated from keystone to Stephans bridge over the weekend and even though it is a smaller river than downstream I dont believe for a second that floating through a spot where someone is fishing is pushing someone out of the river anymore than a 24' riverboat or couple of canoes. Proper etiquette call to ask the fisherman what side of him to go by on and I would never fish their water on the way by. I agree with up by Grayling, the north branch and the south branch above Smith bridge but their is allot of water at Stephans bridge where I get the dirtiest looks from. 
-Jeff


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## flow_theory (Apr 4, 2009)

Fishing Guides are just guys who can't or won't hold down a real job.


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## tommy-n (Jan 9, 2004)

The term wanna-be's fits pretty well also.


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## kienbaumer (Jan 29, 2001)

I don't think they want the holy waters to become what the PM has become. Drifter and drifter on the guide train coming down the river. Actually alot of them use drifters in the winter....if you want to use them then use it your not braking any laws. If they are snobbing tell them to get over it. I personally like wading because I'm not lazy and there is no need for a drifter or a riverboat on the holywaters its like 1-3 foot deep and there are access everywhere.


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## Troutlord1 (Jun 6, 2007)

flow_theory said:


> Fishing Guides are just guys who can't or won't hold down a real job.


I know plenty of guides who work 40 hour weekly jobs who guide on weekends for a little extra income who are courteous and do not frown
on any other drifter or wader regardless of type of boat.
They also have the policy to ask a wader what side they want them to pass on and have the "no fishing 100 yards up or down from a wading angler" and who also let other drifters pass if they want.
Sure there are a few "a holes" and "snobs" but there are alot of decent ones as well.
Also Charter Captains are guides as well and they do hold full time jobs as well.


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