# building a layout boat?



## mad4mallards (Dec 31, 2009)

Was looking into building a layout boat for next season. Currently have a sneak boat but its gettin hard for my old man to paddle down onto the birds. What are the best set of plans i could get? How much time does it take start to finish? How much is the overall material cost? Thanks in advance.


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## AR34 (Jun 18, 2008)

If you are looking for a one man marsh boat the Hybrid is a great boat. 
Hybridduckboat.com is the websight. I have built 3 now and love them

Here is a huge thread on builds and questions and answers on Hybrids.
http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/showthread.php?t=602498

These boats are designed to be lower budget, light, and safe boats.
Time to build is 3 days if you are good, doing it on and off will take a couple weeks, cost of material is about 300.00. You will have close to 200 in fiberglass, wood and glue is looking about 50.00. After 50.00 you will have a boat that will just need glass, paint and any extras you wish. Depending on size you build, 8' will take a 3hp, you have to get in the 13' range for the boat to Coast Guard approve a 10-15hp.


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## limige (Sep 2, 2005)

I'm looking to build a towable layout boat for shallow water hunting myself
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mad4mallards (Dec 31, 2009)

is the hybrid good for open water? im looking for a boat for LSC open water hunting


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## kbar (Aug 12, 2009)

If you want you can look at the one I built and I can answer any questions you may have. I hunt LSC. PM me if you want.


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## lastflight (Aug 16, 2005)

mad4mallards said:


> is the hybrid good for open water? im looking for a boat for LSC open water hunting


No. It is strictly a marsh/shallow water boat. 
Get yourself some plans from Busick and build a pumpkin seed style layout boat. You might want to check out duckboats.net for some more information on the subject.


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## AR34 (Jun 18, 2008)

I have only been in 1 layout boat, but I can say the Hybrid is a very stable boat and would say it is safer than a punkin seed. I think either way, with a tender boat any style small craft would be just fine. But they do work great in a marsh you only need about 6-8 inches of vegitation to not stick out.


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## lastflight (Aug 16, 2005)

AR34 said:


> with a tender boat any style small craft would be just fine.


If you are going to be layout hunting St. Clair on days when the birds are flying (not nice) you will want to be in a craft designed to handle it.


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## Buddwiser (Dec 14, 2003)

PM sent.


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## AR34 (Jun 18, 2008)

lastflight said:


> If you are going to be layout hunting St. Clair on days when the birds are flying (not nice) you will want to be in a craft designed to handle it.


Have you ever been in a Hybrid? The design is way better to handle waves compaired to ANY layout UFO, I am sure they would tow much better with less chanches of diving. No facts to back up, IMO.


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## lastflight (Aug 16, 2005)

AR34 said:


> Have you ever been in a Hybrid? The design is way better to handle waves compaired to ANY layout UFO, I am sure they would tow much better with less chanches of diving. No facts to back up, IMO.


I have never been in a Hybird boat but I have been in similar boats (Carsten Puddler). I am not a everyday layout hunter but I probably do 5-10 layout hunts in the great lakes every season. For me, I would not be caught dead off-shore layout hunting in this:


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

AR34 said:


> The design is way better to handle waves compaired to ANY layout UFO.


What about the design makes it better when anchored?


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## lewy149 (Apr 19, 2007)

If that 300 dollar hybrid was better as a layout don't you think we would have saved the other 1100 and built our own?


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## Dahmer (Jan 22, 2007)

AR34 said:


> Have you ever been in a Hybrid? The design is way better to handle waves compaired to ANY layout UFO, I am sure they would tow much better with less chanches of diving. No facts to back up, IMO.


The hybrids I've seen are for use in semi-calm shallow water. They don't have alot of free board and have a smaller cross section in contact with the water making them wanting to roll.They are not a rough water boat. Layout boats are built to hunt shallow and deep water and are designed to handle rough water. They have a large cross-section in contact with the water making them very stable. I've stood up in my layout in 2'-3' waves shooting a cripples and never felt like the layout was going to roll-over. As for building a layout. Me and my buddy built one and worked great. The only problem was it is really heavy. It weighs about twice as much as MLB, LBLB, UFO and Banks. Thats why I bought a MLB. One guy can pull the boat on to the gunnels by themself.


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## lewy149 (Apr 19, 2007)

Agreed


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## AR34 (Jun 18, 2008)

*What about the design makes it better when anchored? 
*
I am not sure they would be any better anchored.. but I would not think they would not take a wave. The pictured post is a 8' hybrid, the Banks is 10', a hybrid can be build any length.



*lewy149 If that 300 dollar hybrid was better as a layout don't you think we would have saved the other 1100 and built our own? 
*
Post above built and saved!
I am not saying they would be a better layout, and not sure why you would not build one yourself

*They don't have alot of free board and have a smaller cross section in contact with the water making them wanting to roll.*

The Banks boat is 4' wide, the hybrid can easily be built that wide, the plan calls for the use of 2 sheets of plywood to cut cost on a 8' boat. the Hybrid is 3' and the angled sides and adds width to about 3'8" total width. The angled sides actually makes the boat not want to roll to the sides, Most have a lift to the bow to cut waves like any other boat on the market besides a layout. I am not saying the TYPICAL hybrid is a better layout boat, but a good boat that would make a good layout. If you designed it to be more like a layout It would be a layout for shallow to deep water.

*As for building a layout. Me and my buddy built one and worked great.*

That is great, It was rewarding building your own boat!! For the application you needed... Build a boat anyway you like. Hunt the Great Lakes and make sure you have a tender boat!

If I hunt the great lakes in a hybrid, I would have a tender or not be far from shore! But you would not go far in a layout without a tender because you have NO way to power it!

My Opinion is you could easily hunt Metro beach in a Hybrid w/o a tender!


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## lewy149 (Apr 19, 2007)

First, from post not just my opinion my lake Bonneville is superior to the one built. It is superior to the other boats being professionaly built. 15 miles out you want a great reliable. Second, I checked the videos and website out, their layout sticks out like a sore thumb. Third, even the dimensions you stated still do not compete with my lake Bonneville, 10.5 feet and 5 feet wide. Let alone your talking about a boat that literally disappears in 6 inch chop. Not only does ot ride better but here is an example of hunting better. I asked for Houghton lake conditions. Was told by a lot of people we would be lucky to kill one, been dry for weeks. We killed 2 redheads, 4 buffies, 2 bills,2ringers, 1 can, and a lawn dart. We spent less than 3 hours in the layout. We used 4 dozen decoys and moved 2 times. We didn't shoot one bird that wasn't feet down In the decoys had no wind on a blue bird day. Just hid the boat in the glare on the water. I know you couldn't do that in another boat cause guys were trying and not killing but one to 3 birds let alone a 2 man.


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## lewy149 (Apr 19, 2007)

I am not saying the TYPICAL hybrid is a better layout boat, but a good boat that would make a good layout. If you designed it to be more like a layout It would be a


You stated 2x that it is better than a layout. Once you stated better than any UFO and once stating safer than any.??


How far have you been off shore and how rough of water? Guarantee ours have been out farther and rougher. Y cause we don't lack the confidence in our boat to be safe and stay hid from ducks.


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## lewy149 (Apr 19, 2007)

*lewy149 If that 300 dollar hybrid was better as a layout don't you think we would have saved the other 1100 and built our own? 
*
Post above built and saved!
I am not saying they would be a better layout, and not sure why you would not build one yourself

????

Did you fail to read all of dahmers post? Yes built and saved then bought an MLB.


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## Dahmer (Jan 22, 2007)

AR34 said:


> *They don't have alot of free board and have a smaller cross section in contact with the water making them wanting to roll.*
> 
> The Banks boat is 4' wide, the hybrid can easily be built that wide, the plan calls for the use of 2 sheets of plywood to cut cost on a 8' boat. the Hybrid is 3' and the angled sides and adds width to about 3'8" total width. The angled sides actually makes the boat not want to roll to the sides, Most have a lift to the bow to cut waves like any other boat on the market besides a layout. I am not saying the TYPICAL hybrid is a better layout boat, but a good boat that would make a good layout. If you designed it to be more like a layout It would be a layout for shallow to deep water.


 Free board is the amount of the boat that is above the water line when it is loaded and unloaded. The more weight in the boat the this free board you have. The longer, wider and taller the sides on a boat the more weight it will handle. Now back to the topic.


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## Missedagain (May 22, 2011)

Hi guys, sorry to interrupt but I consider myself an expert with the Hybrid topic. Funny thing is that the Hybrid boats have 5 different designs - No.s 6 & 7 are on slate for this summer. The guy put the picture of the SN version up. He could not have picked a blockier version.

Sux - they won't let me put up pictures. Insert 2 photo's of the Hybrid DE here... - imagine a high profile open water layout boat. 

This is the closest to an open water layout boat at this time. I am waiting for some time and $ to build the version with the box to lower the profile - dad wanted a 14 inch height since he's 70 and likes to put his feet straight up. I prefer the 12 inch profile but didn't bother to build one due to planning on making the version with the box. I won't go less than a 10 inch profile...

I think you have to determine what you want to do. Do you want to layout hunt every weekend or just a couple of fun trips during the season.

If you want to layout hunt in 3 ft seas and 15 miles from land, I agree that you need a big, heavy, large water layout. Hybrids are designed to float on the water and not be heavy enough to sit flush. A Hybrid would ride the waves and not be the place to stand up to shoot at cripples. How you managed to cripple the bird if it was actively decoying is another story for another day.

The Hybrid would ride the waves and doesn't need a lot of deck to push off water. It simply rides over the top. I've had them out in 2 ft whitecaps with no issues. The windy, nasty condition sure do make the birds decoy well. It's a shame that you can't make the boat rides and work involved with a large decoy spread go easier in the nasty weather.

As such, Hybrids aren't for everyone. Just remember that bigger isn't always better and heavier isn't always better. The Hybrids have a place in the duck hunter's boat arsenal - especially at the $300 price tag. They will handle big water, you just gotta use your head.

If you want to layout hunt a couple times each year and can pick the days, there is no reason a Hybrid can't or won't do what you need. If you are die-hard and go every chance no matter what the weather, I'd rather see you in someone else's boat and the bigger, the better.

Back in the day, my firends drew up a cartoon of a USCG helicopter with a spotlight on a guy in a little boat, in severely rough weather. The guy was throwing decoys and hollering - "This is MY Spot - find your own!" I have hunted in up to 45 mph winds (every time the boat's nose went up, it spun around!), pushed my boat a mile or more across the ice to reach open water, and waded around alligators to pick up dead ducks. Fun memories and such but I'm over 40 now and don't take those extra chances anymore, prefering a cozy bed next to the wife over taking risks...


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## lewy149 (Apr 19, 2007)

That's all I was saying. If you want a layout boat, buy or build a layout. Hybrids have their purpose but with their high profile and design they are not as effective as an actual layout.


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## GrizzlyBear (Apr 27, 2003)

Missedagain said:


> If you want to layout hunt in 3 ft seas and 15 miles from land, I agree that you need a big, heavy, large water layout. Hybrids are designed to float on the water and not be heavy enough to sit flush. A Hybrid would ride the waves and not be the place to stand up to shoot at cripples. *How you managed to cripple the bird if it was actively decoying is another story for another day.*


Pretty ballsy statement for someone claiming the vast experience you have. I'm sure your a real deadeye shooting from your back out of a layout in 2-3' rollers...


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## lewy149 (Apr 19, 2007)

Yeah Ive knocked ringers down hard in the decoys and had em roll over and take off swimming.


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## AR34 (Jun 18, 2008)

I agree, but the Hybrid would work. Agree that It would not profile as well.



lewy149 said:


> That's all I was saying. If you want a layout boat, buy or build a layout. Hybrids have their purpose but with their high profile and design they are not as effective as an actual layout.


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## lewy149 (Apr 19, 2007)

The hybrid would not work for us.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Having towed before, towing any farther than a mile sucks in all but the calmest water. This was towing a bankes that was made to tow and actually towed well. I can not imagine towing a hybrid would be much different, so sure you could do it, you better just be very careful with your days. If a hybrid is really your thing, just easier to pull it on board rather than tow it IMO. 

Not crippling birds? Like Grizz said, anyone with any amount of experience would not make such a statement. The idea that everyone should stone every bird is not realisitic. We've had days where we've lost a hand full of crips and last year we had a streak where we put over 200 in the boat before we lost a crip. No matter how good of a shot you are, or how close you decoy them, it's just the way it works.


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## Ieatantlers (Oct 7, 2008)

Missedagain said:


> How you managed to cripple the bird if it was actively decoying is another story for another day.


You've never crippled a decoying duck (diver especially)? You haven't hunted nearly enough to be giving advice.


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## lewy149 (Apr 19, 2007)

I couldn't tell you how many birds I have thought I "stoned" only to see em roll over and start swimming, or better yet hit the water aNd disappear


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## Missedagain (May 22, 2011)

Sorry to hi-jack this post.

I see we have some easily offended guys on here. You have to take things with a grain of salt. I'm new to the forum and wanted to see what I'm dealing with. 

Here's my background:

I have 35 years of duck & goose hunting ponds, bogs, rivers, the ocean & bays, impoundments, and corn fields. Have crippled my fair share - especially when the feds madated steel back in the 80s - we switched to 10 ga guns and BBB loads at that point. Dad had a bigger is better attitude - lost a lot of ducks due to not knowing any better. 1 large pellet will not kill a duck as reliably as multiple little pellets. Shooting 12 ga 2-3/4 inch 4s mostly now. Will do 3 inch 4s or 3s or 2s from time to time but not often for reasons stated further below.

Hunted once with a guy who would NOT chase cripples and it burned me up - never went with him again, and no invites from my side. I fired a grand total of 46 shots this past season, took 18-20 birds - had 2 or 3 cripples between dad & I this season - I'm the dog/guide/bird fetcher/boat runner/etc. We had a VERY bad year bird-wise - very few birds around other than bluebills due to drought conditions and no water (mud with drought cracks) or duck feed where we hunt. Only did layout hunts with my uncle - dad doesn't like it so we do other things.

The majority of the ducks we shoot are bluebills (large #s winter on FLs east coast), redheads (large #s winter on FL's west coast), ringers (FLs most harvested bird), the teal, widgeon, gadwall, pintail, and mottled ducks. We tend to pass on shovelers, ruddys, and mergansers, but not on the odd mallard that comes thru. 

I am considering switching to a single shot .410 with #6 hevi-shot come this season. Why? Because it will irritate a lot of guys who say it can not be done _ethically_, besides, most of my shots (90%) are 20-30 yards (planned with decoy/blind/layout arrangements) at decoying birds - flaps down. 

Will I take long shots - NO. After all these years, it doesn't matter how many get killed, just how it gets done. (Plus the .410 will be a good home defense gun for the wife as we get older - they have some nice Self Defense loads)

My advice to new duck hunters is always to strive for a 2-3 shots or less per bird average and few to no cripples. IMHO, if they are shooting more and/or getting many cripples, you need a tighter choke, closer birds, or smaller shot sizes to increase your pellet density (2s or 4s vs BBBs is what I'm saying).

So, will I wound a duck - yes, a few every year. I would just rather let 'em pass at 40 yards and hope they swing around to come in, if they don't I will reposition myself/hunting party so the next group is within 30 yards before shooting. That's just my requirements and how I do things. They work well for me and seem to offend others.

As for the number of cripples - the correlation between cripples and experience should be less cripples for more experience. Wouldn't you agree?


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## Ieatantlers (Oct 7, 2008)

Missedagain said:


> As for the number of cripples - the correlation between cripples and experience should be less cripples for more experience. Wouldn't you agree?


Percentage wise, yes. Total numbers, no.


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## lewy149 (Apr 19, 2007)

The only real correlation is decoying or not. In the decoys cripple #s down outside they go up, sometimes you just cripple em, whether its a slight miss others you can't explain.


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## highcaliberconsecrator (Oct 16, 2009)

TSS Caddis said:


> Having towed before, towing any farther than a mile sucks in all but the calmest water. This was towing a bankes that was made to tow and actually towed well. I can not imagine towing a hybrid would be much different, so sure you could do it, you better just be very careful with your days. If a hybrid is really your thing, just easier to pull it on board rather than tow it IMO.
> 
> Not crippling birds? Like Grizz said, anyone with any amount of experience would not make such a statement. The idea that everyone should stone every bird is not realisitic. No matter how good of a shot you are, or how close you decoy them, it's just the way it works.


ding, ding, ding....


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Ieatantlers said:


> Percentage wise, yes. Total numbers, no.


That's a very wise and well thought out statement. 

That mullet is making you smarter by the day.


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## Ieatantlers (Oct 7, 2008)

TSS Caddis said:


> That's a very wise and well thought out statement.
> 
> That mullet is making you smarter by the day.


Well, I don't know how to say this, but I had to ditch the mullet last night and I chopped off all my hair. I am standing up in my friends wedding next month, and his fiance put a kibosh to the mullet plans. Freakin' women and their poor taste of style. However, I will be sporting a Mississippi mud flap as soon as my hair can start growing back after June 25th.


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## Quack Wacker (Dec 20, 2006)




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## Missedagain (May 22, 2011)

Good group here. 

In FL, we use mullet for bait, not put them in our hair. 

I found that the birds we hunt (nothing seems to be as tough as a winter drake goldeneye, down south) die better inside the decoys as we lose very few.

One year we had birds decoy and fly off - get 100-200-300 yards out, stretch the wings, wiggle and plummet. That's when I went from #3's to #4's. Always got the birds that dropped dead, just had to work for them - mark the line and boat or walk, sometimes both, to get to them.

You guys do hard-core stuff. I'd love to make the trip and hop in a layout 15 miles out in 3 ft seas. That's just intense. Maybe some day when I have enough vacation time and can drive up with a Hybrid to play in as well - you-all will save me, right? :16suspect


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## wavie (Feb 2, 2004)

Missedagain said:


> I'd love to make the trip and hop in a layout 15 miles out in 3 ft seas.


3ft swells by some may be considered a calm day.

Didnt think a GE made it south of the Mason Dixon Line. You think they are tough to kill when they make it down there. Try mid Dec after its been cold/ice for awhile, they're all wearing kevlar jackets.


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## mad4mallards (Dec 31, 2009)

Well now that thats done. Can someone just tell me the total material and time cost along with how good the plans from waterfowl works are? Also how rough of seas can these boats take? Much appreciated(Leave how many birds you have shot/crippled and whether you have a mullet or not out of your answer:lol::lolThanks.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

wavie said:


> 3ft swells by some may be considered a calm day.
> 
> Didnt think a GE made it south of the Mason Dixon Line. You think they are tough to kill when they make it down there. Try mid Dec after its been cold/ice for awhile, they're all wearing kevlar jackets.


was diving golf ponds in montgomery, alabama a few years ago...they were loaded up with golden eyes and buffleheads...we were just about on the gator/no gators line of alabama. never thought they were that far south either. (end of febuary)


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## Missedagain (May 22, 2011)

They do get a few GEs in the northern FL areas.

I was actually refering back to my New England days of ice hunting the salt water on the CT & RI border during Dec & January. GEs, buffies, old squaws, mallards, & blacks, sometimes canadas were the norm.


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## Missedagain (May 22, 2011)

Here is an actual response to the layout build question.

http://www.marsh-monster.com/boatbuilding.htm


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## lastflight (Aug 16, 2005)

mad4mallards said:


> Well now that thats done. Can someone just tell me the total material and time cost along with how good the plans from waterfowl works are? Also how rough of seas can these boats take? Much appreciated(Leave how many birds you have shot/crippled and whether you have a mullet or not out of your answer:lol::lolThanks.


I have not built a WW boat but I did build a Kara Hummer a few years back. My total costs with glass were just under $400. After looking at the boat in question I would guess material costs would be in the $400-500 range. Build time would probably be 40+ hours.
Good luck on the build and post pictures along the way!!


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## lewy149 (Apr 19, 2007)

I'd personally show up here to work for 40 hours ot be like 300 ahead and save the 400 on the build so I'd be 700 ahead and have a lake Bonneville.


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## Ieatantlers (Oct 7, 2008)

lewy149 said:


> I'd personally show up here to work for 40 hours ot be like 300 ahead and save the 400 on the build so I'd be 700 ahead and have a lake Bonneville.


True, however, there is something to be said about hunting from a boat you built, over decoys you carved, shells you loaded or camouflage for the back of your neck that you naturally grew.


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## GrizzlyBear (Apr 27, 2003)

Ieatantlers said:


> True, however, there is something to be said about hunting from a boat you built, over decoys you carved, shells you loaded or *camouflage for the back of your neck that you naturally grew.*


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## lewy149 (Apr 19, 2007)

Lmao



Ieatantlers said:


> True, however, there is something to be said about hunting from a boat you built, over decoys you carved, shells you loaded or camouflage for the back of your neck that you naturally grew.


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## lewy149 (Apr 19, 2007)

This years new camo


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## Buddwiser (Dec 14, 2003)

Missedagain said:


> Here is an actual response to the layout build question.
> 
> http://www.marsh-monster.com/boatbuilding.htm


That boat is NOT taken from Waterfowl Works plans but it was built by someone who goes by Marshmonster who at one time was a member here and the fuge. It was built some time before the original Busick plans were sold to Tony who owns WW. There is a video available at the WW website for a small fee that shows the construction of a WW layout in detail making it easier to build the boat.


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## AR34 (Jun 18, 2008)

That is a good looking boat!!


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