# Home self defense options?



## bass slayer 17 (Mar 11, 2008)

Last night, someone almost broke into our house while we were sleeping. Luckily my dogs heard it and woke us up and they scared whoever away. This got me thinking and it could of ended up worse. It might not be a bad idea to get a home self defense weapon. What would be some good options? Can you get in trouble by the law if you shoot a burglur if you are just protecting yourself?


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## jacktownhooker (Apr 7, 2007)

pistol under the pillow or bed .... as long as no kids in house 

you can get in a lot of trouble if you shoot first and ask questions later !!....if you think its a burglar and actually your drunk cousin comes over to sleep cause got kicked out of house 
or girlfriend or wife decides to look for tax papers in the middle of the night .... and you are soooooo prepared for the next time and gonna get em this time 
and a hundred of other scenarios ! 
a warning shot from my 41 mag would be so loud in a home that it should make intruder sh#t the pants ! .....and get religiouse fast


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

First choice at home and shop:
http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=26

Mossberg 590A1 Less fear of overpenetration, handles great indoors, and I know for certain the sound of one racking made a miscreant decide to head down the street before trying anything stupid.

I prefer the Mariner and Compact models.


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## det07 (Mar 26, 2006)

If a criminal is in your house you have every right to protect youself and your family... By them being in your house unwanted is justification to use deadly force. You don't have to prove their intent..You can not retreat any further than your home. I would not reccommend a warning shot.. and do not shoot to wound! Shoot to stop the threat.. A shotgun/buckshot makes for a nasty home defense weapon.. Just be sure of your target and whats beyond your target and you will be just fine.


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## giver108 (Nov 24, 2004)

12 ga. pump with #4 buckshot


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

> Luckily my dogs heard it and woke us up and they scared whoever away


You already have great home defense.

There is a lot more to having a firearm in the home for self defense, then which one.

How it will be stored, how it will be accessed, how it will be used, family plan in case of a home intrusion, defense or offense, just to name a few.

Do I support having a firearm in the home for self defense, absolutely, but there is a lot to it then just having one. Not doing it right is more dangerous then not having one

Michigan is a no retreat state and you are will within your rights to defend your home and family. In Berrien County the presidence has been set that the intruder does not even have to gain access, but is trying to.


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## Cpt.Chaos (May 28, 2006)

I agree with the previous poster, you have a great start to home defense with the dog, it earned his/her kep last night hopefully they were rewarded handsomly! The next best deterrent IMHO is the sound of a pump shotgun being cycled, followed by as many lights getting turned on as humanly possible. Sight/sound and the presence of dogs defending their home turf is going to deter all but the most wacked-out home invasionist'. My hounds alert us instantly to anything on our property, trespassers, meter checkers, rabbits, squirrels, annoying blue jays, etc.

On a more personal note, I once had to enter our house through a door we usually did not use late at night once. When I opened it, I found our then 1 1/2 y/o beagle inside the door, ears flattened, teeth shining! When she realized it was me, she broke down to crying and licking me intently. Just good to know that a little 20lb 13 inch beagle was ready to put it all on the line for it's owners.


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## CMR (Jul 25, 2003)

jacktownhooker said:


> pistol under the pillow or bed


Totally disagree. There have been noted accidents of people shooting themselves while they are sleeping. 



> you can get in a lot of trouble if you shoot first and ask questions later !!..


Nope. You have the right to defend your house and family.


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## CMR (Jul 25, 2003)

giver108 said:


> 12 ga. pump with #4 buckshot



I prefer the Rem 870 action over the Mossy 500.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

CMR said:


> I prefer the Rem 870 action over the Mossy 500.


The Rem 870 action does feel a lot tighter, but I have never, ever had a lick of trouble out of any of those loose fitting Mossy actions.


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## glockman55 (Mar 9, 2006)

For someone that is not familiar with a handgun, go with a shotgun. But learn how to use it, and practice shooting it as well. Dogs are great but if someone was trying to break into your home when you were there, that tells me they are either very stupid or fearless. Get some kind of a Gun to protect your family.


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## CMR (Jul 25, 2003)

ESOX said:


> The Rem 870 action does feel a lot tighter, but I have never, ever had a lick of trouble out of any of those loose fitting Mossy actions.


My hunting buddy had a Mossy 500 fall apart in his hands while hunting. His name is "ART" on here if ya want the story.


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## glockman55 (Mar 9, 2006)

CMR said:


> My hunting buddy had a Mossy 500 fall apart in his hands while hunting. His name is "ART" on here if ya want the story.


 
Sounds like poor gun maintenance to me, nothing wrong with a Moss berg, just a little rattle..LOL


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## CMR (Jul 25, 2003)

glockman55 said:


> Sounds like poor gun maintenance to me, nothing wrong with a Moss berg, just a little rattle..LOL


Nope, wasnt poor gun maintenance.


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## ajmorell (Apr 27, 2007)

Agree with most others about the shotgun. They are a lot more forgiving than a handgun or rifle. I disagree about using buckshot however. I personally would use #2-#4 lead shot. With buck shot you really run the risk of shooting through the walls and harming someone you don't intend to. With smaller shot you don't have to worry about that and birdshot, even #8s are plenty lethal at any range you would encounter in the home.


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

Handgun vs Shotgun, depends on what your intentions are. If your situation dictates taking up a defensive position, calling the police and defending your position, go with a shotgun.

If your plan involves, or may involve, moving through your home looking for an intruder, go with a handgun.

Just as important as the ability to shoot the gun, is the ability to safely and effectively carry it. 

Close confines, quick encounters, and possibly having to use a weapon while physically engaging a suspect makes the pistol a much more effective weapon. 

As for caliber, shooting distances will be short, lighting will be bad, carry something that enables you to shoot multiple shots quickly and controlled. A high capacity 9mm loaded with hollow points, or better yet Glazer Safety slugs is a much better option, then any high power mag revolver

If your going with a shotgun, go with a reliable semi auto. Cops and the Military use 870's and 500's for a couple of reasons, some of which do not apply to home security, another is cost. Unless you train relentlessly you will not be able to engage multiple subjects in a home environment effectively with a pump shotgun.

Just important as the gun preparing for a home invasion. You don't have to be paranoid, just prepared. Your family should move around the house at night in the dark, just to experience it. Your children should know their responsibilities if they think they hear someone in the house...............one is to move quietly on their hands and knees to your room to alert you.....why hands and knees. If you heard the same noise and are in a defensive mode, you could react to your child running upright into your room. Coming in on their hands and knees makes them naturally less of a threat and give you a moment to think before reacting.

Lighting and alarm, removal of brush, obstructions, even an alarm sign even if you don't have one is good.

Unless you are prepared to truly be ready for an armed encounter with an intruder, I still say go with a dog. Yours did a good job. You didn't mention the breed, but if needed augment your canine defense. 

If you have plenty of room and don't mind size. I would go with a Neopolatan Mastiff. Great Temperment, dedicated and unbelievable power combined with a crushing bite make them a great dog for home defense.

Less maintenance and smaller, around 75 pounds, go with a Bovier De Flandres. Again great temperment, very dedicated, strong shoulders, short wide snout gives them great biting pressure. Pound for pound I have seen this breed of dog do unbelievable damage in a very short period.

Do no attack work with either dog. Good obediance training and raise either like part of the family and I pitty the intruder that enters your home.

The advantage of a Dog over a Gun. You have to use the gun and the gun can be used against you. A dog acts independantly and can't be used against you.

There are many that will disagree and have their own views and opinions. You're talking about defending the most important things you have in the world and that deserves a lot of consideration.


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## Ozzman (Apr 12, 2007)

Taurus has a pistol, called the Judge. It is a reolver which is about as simple a weapon to fire as there is.

This revolver shoots either .410 shot shells or .45 colt, is not much more expensive than a good shotgun, can be turned around a corner without exposing yourself because it is truly compact, allowing the free hand to dial 911 or hold the flashlight for a better shot without pulling off target of the threat to do so.

Comes in 2 1/2 inch or 3 inch chambers, have shot a friends when it was first introduced and will handle #4 shot shot shells as well. Not to mention the pattern at 20ft out of the 3" barrel is very impressive and damaging to whatever it hits. The first 2 rounds can be backed up by the end of arguement round, the .45 colt without having to fumble with an attempted switch out or reload cause if they havent left by then, I then have the ability to start punching through the walls with the .45 colt if needed.

Mine was purchased after my friends demonstration and resides in a biometric safe (practiced opening this often), right behind my pillow, loaded w 2 #4 shot shells followed w 4 .45 colts.

Just my .02 cents.

Ozzman


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## Still Wait'n (Nov 25, 2005)

2PawsRiver said:


> Handgun vs Shotgun, depends on what your intentions are. If your situation dictates taking up a defensive position, calling the police and defending your position, go with a shotgun.
> 
> If your plan involves, or may involve, moving through your home looking for an intruder, go with a handgun.
> 
> ...


 
Great post Mark. Very informative and considering the source it got my attention.


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## Hoppe's no.10 (Sep 16, 2007)

Admittedly haven't read every reply to your original post line by line. Having said that loading a weapon with the intention of *MAYBE* killing someone with it is truly *SERIOUS BUSINESS*. It is not a situation to be trifled with, make jokes about or to take lightly. Even if you mean to do right you may end up doing wrong - in the eyes of the law - and pay dearly - $$$$$$ or "time."

If you *honestly* think your life or the live's of your loved ones are in danger then seek training from a professional who can evaluate your needs, your strengths and weaknesses and prepare you to defend your life under stress. 

There are a lot of responses to your thread that are full of Bud-Lite BS and if you follow their advice and really get into trouble with a questionable shooting they will not be here to defend you nor will they be willing to pony up $$$$$$ for a defense lawyer for you.

And all this unbelievable crap about the "...racking of a shotgun will scare the bad guys away..." is just that - a lot of BS based on to many Hollywood movies. OO buck in a shotgun to take a bad guy away - undoubtedly it would kill but who else on the other side of the room?

I'm not about to tell you the best defensive weapon or defensive scenario for you like a lot of other armchair/NFL half-time experts on this forum. Find a pro, enroll in a *really* good two day CPL/CCW class that requires more than 30 rounds at a static paper target - find a class that actually challenges you to defend yourself as opposed to a conveyor belt class and practice, practice, practice - your life may depend on it.

Hoppe's no.10


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## Birddog77 (Nov 18, 2008)

The shotgun is a great choice for HD. I have a 870 near by almost always and have complete faith it will do the job as needed if called upon...

However I have to say that my preferred platform for HD is my Carbine in 5.56

Extensive testing has determined the following is true in the majority of cases. Bear in mind that very few rules are absolutes and there can be aberrant situations.

1. 5.56mm will usually begin to tumble and then fragment after passing through an interior wall. Most of the time, if you have a miss, the bullet will not penetrate more than one wall. 12ga Buckshot or slugs, and 9mm, .40, .357, .45 bullets will easily penetrate an interior wall and will be a substantial risk to someone on the other side. The pistol bullets were found to frequently pass through 3 or more interior walls and the exterior wall unless they hit a stud. No 5.56mm exited the exterior walls.

2. 12ga has substantially more recoil than 5.56mm, making it more difficult to use for small statured persons such as teenagers or women.

3. While not normally a real concern for a civilian in a defensive situation (unless you are loading the weapon when you detect the intruder), but an AR is much faster to load and to re-load.

4. Contrary to myth, a shotgun is not going to sweep a hallway or room. A cylinder bore choke, which is most common on a "riot" type gun, will average a shot spread of 1" per yard of distance from the muzzle. For most interior dwellings, you'll have to search to find a clear line of sight/shot that would exceed 30'/10 yards. That equates to a 10" spread at the maximum distance, obviously much tighter at closer distances. This means you do have to aim, not just vaguely point. An AR can be aimed and fired just as quickly.

Shotguns have only a couple of advantages. Usually (it is possible to spend unGodly amounts of money modding a shotgun) a shotgun is much less expensive than an AR. $300-500 cheaper for simple versions of each.

Depending on your legal jurisdiction, a shotgun may be available while an AR is not.

Depending on your jurisdiction, you may be better able to defend a shooting with a shotgun than a rifle, though this is also more myth than reality. If the shooting was justifiable, the weapon used is immaterial. If you unloaded 15 rds of 5.56 into someone who ceased being a threat after 2, you've got a problem. Samething if you swiss-cheesed him with 8 rds of 00 buck. If you can articulate the reasoned arguments why you chose a particular weapon, caliber, etc, then your chances are much better, regardless of what you used.

The foregoing was not a down-check on the Shotgun. Its a good gun. Just an opinion on the narrow issue of AR v. Shotgun for home defense.


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

uptracker said:


> Gideon,
> 
> . The Castle Doctrine was signed in 2006 and hasn't changed since.?
> 
> ...


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

Topshelf said:


> Thats why this country is so great. Everyone can have an opinion.
> 
> The double tap is to the head is what we practice most nights. Two to the head and one to the chest or vice versa. Depends on who is setting up the course of fire.


 Im beginning to understand your opinion, that, "you will get sued


"The basic rule on use of force in self-defense is that the force must be proportional to the threat.


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## Sib (Jan 8, 2003)

GIDEON said:


> signed?


Granholm signed the bill and it became law in Oct. 2006.


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

Sib said:


> Granholm signed the bill and it became law in Oct. 2006.


 Thank you, I was looking for a date.


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## the roofer (Jan 14, 2009)

dont shoot them in the back...or you will be sued...


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

A civil suit is very likely. The castle doctrine does nothing to limit legal action taken in a civil suit by a private party, just limits criminal prosecution. Personaly, surviving is more important, but one would be seriously remiss if they did not expect and prepare for civil action on the part of the intruder and or their family etc. That said, you pull the trigger until the threat is no longer a threat and it does not matter if it takes a partial magazine or a full magazine to accomplish this. Ammo is cheap.


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

Swamp Monster said:


> A civil suit is very likely. The castle doctrine does nothing to limit legal action taken in a civil suit by a private party, just limits criminal prosecution. Personaly, surviving is more important, but one would be seriously remiss if they did not expect and prepare for civil action on the part of the intruder and or their family etc. That said, you pull the trigger until the threat is no longer a threat and it does not matter if it takes a partial magazine or a full magazine to accomplish this. Ammo is cheap.


. 


Pay attention to the first two:

SB 1185, sponsored by Sen. Ron Jelinek, allows for the award of court and attorney fees in civil cases where it was determined a person acted in accordance with the Self Defense Act and where civil immunities apply. 

HB 5548, sponsored by Rep. Tim Moore, gives civil immunities to persons acting in accordance with the Self Defense Act, preventing criminals and their families from suing law-abiding citizens. 

HB 5153, sponsored by Rep. Leslie Mortimer, puts the burden of proof on the prosecutor to show that a person acted unlawfully in the application of force, rather than the person using the force having to prove they acted lawfully. 

HB 5142, sponsored by Rep. Tom Casperson, expands the definition of &#8220;dwelling&#8221; to include a person&#8217;s garage, barn, backyard, etc. 

HB 5143, sponsored by Rep. Rick Jones, creates the Self Defense Act and specifies that it is not a crime to use force or deadly force to defend oneself if that person is not breaking any laws when defensive force was used. The person must be facing imminent threat of death or great bodily harm. 

These were signed into law a few years ago by Gov. Granholm.


Keep away from the cowboy mentality and you will be just fine.


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## awfulpotent (Oct 14, 2003)

Big_Jim said:


> I hate when people say this.:sad:
> 
> It is an intimidating sound but are you willing to bet your life on it?
> 
> Whatever gun you have for HD, you better be ready to use it and not expect a scary sound to send bad guys running.


believe me at my house the kerchunk is first then if the person continues to be a threat you know whats next


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## Topshelf (May 24, 2005)

awfulpotent said:


> believe me at my house the kerchunk is first then if the person continues to be a threat you know whats next


What he said 

I feel bad....:lol:... because in my case its the slide of my 1911 racking as I double-tap the trigger, so there is no warning


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## Topshelf (May 24, 2005)

GIDEON said:


> Im beginning to understand your opinion, that, "you will get sued
> 
> 
> "The basic _*rule*_ on use of force in self-defense is that the force must be proportional to the threat.


There are no rules in a fight. Especially in a gun fight. 
There is no such thing as a fair fight. 
You can quote all the legislation you want to at the bad guy as he empties his gun in your direction, hope that works out for you.

And yeah, you will get sued also even if you only shoot the bad guy once.



GIDEON said:


> "Keep away from the cowboy mentality and you will be just fine." .


In my case I don't fight fair. I want to live to fight again. I'm going to Double-tap the dirtbag and probably empty the mag and then reload. Then if he is still moving, well you get the picture..... Ever heard the term "nice guys finish last". It applies here trust me. Cowboy mentality my *****, If someone is threatening me or mine they just punched their own ticket.


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## old school (Jun 2, 2008)

giver108 said:


> 12 ga. pump with #4 buckshot


 
 Bar none! Gotta love a no brainer. Have to believe there will be many if any arguements on this one


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## Adam Gibbs (Jul 13, 2006)

i keep my airsoft shotgun next to the bed. i can rack the forearm, and it almost sounds like a real shotgun. then, if that doesnt stop someone, i have a green tactical laser on the front. most people when they see that will run away. if they still advance, i will shoot. the little 6mm bb's hurt really bad when i get shot by them. this combo will for sure stop someone.


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## hungry hunter (Jan 11, 2005)

Adam Gibbs said:


> i keep my airsoft shotgun next to the bed. i can rack the forearm, and it almost sounds like a real shotgun. then, if that doesnt stop someone, i have a green tactical laser on the front. most people when they see that will run away. if they still advance, i will shoot. the little 6mm bb's hurt really bad when i get shot by them. this combo will for sure stop someone.


 
Right on :lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Big_Jim (Jul 26, 2000)

Adam Gibbs said:


> i keep my airsoft shotgun next to the bed. i can rack the forearm, and it almost sounds like a real shotgun. then, if that doesnt stop someone, i have a green tactical laser on the front. most people when they see that will run away. if they still advance, i will shoot. the little 6mm bb's hurt really bad when i get shot by them. this combo will for sure stop someone.


When your 12 you gotta do what you gotta do. :lol::lol::lol::lol: It'll get you killed but to each their own.:yikes::yikes:

But for grown-ups a real gun always trumps an airsoft gun.



On a more serious note. How many times have we heard that racking a shotgun will scare away intruders and that if that doesn't scare them the putting that laser on their chest will surely make them crap their pants. They'll run in fear without firing a shot. 

Myself, I don't believe in racking a slide whether it's a shotgun or a pistol. In my house there is no warning, chamber loaded, safety on. Bad guy in house? Safety off, BANG, dead badguy.


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

Topshelf said:


> And yeah, you will get sued also even if you only shoot the bad guy once.
> quote]
> 
> 
> ...


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

Topshelf said:


> In my case I don't fight fair. I want to live to fight again. I'm going to Double-tap the dirtbag and probably empty the mag and then reload. Then if he is still moving, well you get the picture..... Ever heard the term "nice guys finish last". It applies here trust me. Cowboy mentality my *****, If someone is threatening me or mine they just punched their own ticket.


 If this is your desire, then you cant blame the system if and when you do have a law siut to contend with.


"The basic rule on use of force in self-defense is that the force must be proportional to the threat."

If an attorney determines that emptying a mag, followed by a double tap to the head, and a chest shot is excessive use of force, then you may be in for a rough time. Both civilly and criminally. Not saying that you will, but why open that door.

Knowledge is your friend, IE; Did you know that a justifiable shooting, that is a shooting done in self defense, can be nullified if it is proven that you had alterations performed to the trigger assembly," lightening trigger pull."


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## bass slayer 17 (Mar 11, 2008)

There are alot of good points on this thread. Alot to think about. I just dont think every burglur or break-in will be the type to scare away easily. I remember hearing stories in the news about whole familys being killed in their homes at night. When someone breaks into your house, you can think for a second that just having a loud gun will scare anyone away. You got to be ready for anything. I think with "Halt who goes there", your finger on the trigger, and taking cover, you will see how it will play out and need to make quick decisions that could change your life forever. Also If dogs, a loud security system, or guns dont scare them, well there to stupid to survive anyway.

On another note, Are bullet proof/ tactical vests, civilan legal? That would be another good thing to have. Maybe even a bullet proof helmet.


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## Adam Gibbs (Jul 13, 2006)

my earlier post was a joke for all those that couldnt tell.

yes, bullet proof vests are legal. are you gonna have time to put one on? probably not. i would skip the vest for now, and focus on getting good training.

ive seen my fair share of people shoot. majority of people think they are gods gift to the world when it comes to gunfighting. in reality, they suck. 

handguns are in all actuality terrible for self defense. comparibly to other calibers of weapons, they are really anemic. they are hard to shoot accurately under extreme stress, ie; crackhead shooting at you. stress is not walking up the hill to the shooting pit. most people are highly unfamiliar in the fundamentals of working a handgun when things get really ugly. that stovepipe you have because you neglected to shoot your carry ammo is going to be a SOB to fix unless you have practiced malfunction drills until your hands bleed.

shotguns are a better choice. generally speaking, not much can go wrong mechanically with them. they are very basic to operate. they have great stopping power when use with the right ammo. BTW, the right ammo is 4 shots of #4 birdshot. will it be ugly for the guy you are shooting at? yes. that is unless he is wearing a thick timberland jacket and 2 shirts. and you hit him somewhere soft. #4 buck should be the minimum. preferebly bigger. it has the weight to get through the thick stuff and then some. dont think that overpenetration doesnt come into play, because it does. that whole rule when hunting "know your target and what is beyond it" also applies in the house. think about where you will most likely have to shoot. what is in that path? move through the house and check all angles. you will clearly see when you should and should not shoot. aim that gun too. a cylinder bore at 10 yards is surprisingly tight with buckshot. AIM. because if you dont, you can, and probably will, miss.

carbines of the 5.56 variety, and to an extent 7.62 and 5.45 arent a bad choice for those that are extremely familiar with them. they plain work. low recoil, and fun to practice with. but the main thing is to be proficient.

for the love of god, please keep your home defense weapon, or carry weapon, loaded. the last thing you want is for that bad guy to hear anything. that could be just enough time for him to put 6 pounds of pressure on his trigger and then its lights out for you. could they be diverted due to your 870 racking? yes, and i could also be dating a supermodel. anything can be possible, but anything can also likely happen. keep it loaded. make sure the people in your house know it is loaded. make sure they know how to use it.

the biggest point, whether you are shooting a .22, 12 gauge, or 5.56, is to get training. you could have the most expensive gun in the world with the new super duper caliber, but all that will mean nothing unless you know how to use the gun. start off with a CPL class. but dont stop there. go to a reputable firearms trainer and take their classes. ask questions. you are paying them. make sure you are getting your moneys worth. these guys are pretty good, and the value of the classes are amazing. http://michigantrainer.com/

be proficient most of all. most people will never have to pull a trigger in self defense, but if you have to, the last thing you want is to screw up and end up in the morgue.


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

bass slayer 17 said:


> There are alot of good points on this thread. Alot to think about. I just dont think every burglur or break-in will be the type to scare away easily. I remember hearing stories in the news about whole familys being killed in their homes at night. When someone breaks into your house, you can think for a second that just having a loud gun will scare anyone away. You got to be ready for anything. I think with "Halt who goes there", your finger on the trigger, and taking cover, you will see how it will play out and need to make quick decisions that could change your life forever. Also If dogs, a loud security system, or guns dont scare them, well there to stupid to survive anyway.
> 
> On another note, Are bullet proof/ tactical vests, civilan legal? That would be another good thing to have. Maybe even a bullet proof helmet.


 Bullit proof vest?, There is actually no such thing. But body armour is readily available.


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

Adam Gibbs said:


> carbines of the 5.56 variety, and to an extent 7.62 and 5.45 arent a bad choice for those that are extremely familiar with them. they plain work. low recoil, and fun to practice with. but the main thing is to be proficient.
> 
> quote]
> 
> ...


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## Topshelf (May 24, 2005)

I'm just curious Gideon. 
What in your background makes you an expert on all of the different subjects in this thread including but not limited to, gun laws, theory of law, legislative actions, ballistics, use and fundamentals of all weapons mentioned in this thread and now Military issue equipment. Your profile says you were an auto worker? just wondering...

The internet is a powerful tool but most of us realize we can't believe everything we read on the net.


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

Topshelf said:


> I'm just curious Gideon.
> What in your background makes you an expert on all of the different subjects in this thread including but not limited to, gun laws, theory of law, legislative actions, ballistics, use and fundamentals of all weapons mentioned in this thread and now Military issue equipment. Your profile says you were an auto worker? just wondering...
> 
> The internet is a powerful tool but most of us realize we can't believe everything we read on the net.[/
> ...


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## Topshelf (May 24, 2005)

GIDEON said:


> But you have my curiosity peaked, I missed where the use of Military Equipment was referred to by me.





GIDEON said:


> Bullit proof vest?, There is actually no such thing. But _*body armour is readily available*_.


originally Mlitary issue


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

Topshelf said:


> originally Mlitary issue


 Come on over, I'll show you a closet full of it, does that qualify me as an expert?


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## ryan-b (Sep 18, 2009)

i use the same thing i used out west for protecton against cats,bear,moose, and russlers while guiding and packing. ruger single action 45 vaquero. shooting 250 gr flat points. You will make a lasting impression with that round.


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## jjc155 (Oct 16, 2005)

http://www.theboxotruth.com/

check it out.

J-


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## Wendy (Oct 6, 2008)

Lots of good points and info...each person will have to do what works best for them in what ever situation presents itself.

I may see self defence in a different manner than some of you because I'm female... for me, *ANY *man coming into my home is a threat period.

I have done everything I can to secure myself and my home against intrusion...I have 4 large mastiff dogs that are very vocal, big and protective of me, and will bite you ... I have a home security alarm...and as a last resort, I have several guns of mixed varieties loaded and accessable.

I would do what I could to avoid a situation, last thing anyone with a conscience really wants to do is kill someone, but if a man gets past the locks, the alarms, past the dogs and still headed toward me, I will take what ever means necessary to stop him.


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

Wendy said:


> Lots of good points and info...each person will have to do what works best for them in what ever situation presents itself.
> 
> I may see self defence in a different manner than some of you because I'm female... for me, *ANY *man coming into my home is a threat period.
> 
> ...


 YOU GO GIRL,...... SOME OF THE SMARTEST PHRASES IVE HEARD TODAY:coolgleam


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## Huffy (Jan 19, 2009)

Not an expert here, and don't claim to be. But, to my thinking keeping a phone by your bed and immediately calling the cops wouldn't be a bad idea.


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## captjimtc (Aug 10, 2005)

Huffy said:


> Not an expert here, and don't claim to be. But, to my thinking keeping a phone by your bed and immediately calling the cops wouldn't be a bad idea.



Where's the fun in that though...:lol:


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## Huffy (Jan 19, 2009)

captjimtc said:


> Where's the fun in that though...:lol:


I understand your point. But, if the dogs or the "kerchunk" don't scare the intruder away, and God forbid we have to do battle and I lose, it would at least be nice to know that backup is on the way rather than the wife and kids being left alone with the sob.


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

> Not an expert here, and don't claim to be. But, to my thinking keeping a phone by your bed and immediately calling the cops wouldn't be a bad idea.


Even better a cell phone, just in case they cut the phone line.


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

2PawsRiver said:


> Even better a cell phone, just in case they cut the phone line.


 Thats way to good of an idea for the WYATT EARPS of the 21st century to consider.:lol::lol:


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## jjc155 (Oct 16, 2005)

GIDEON said:


> Thats way to good of an idea for the WYATT EARPS of the 21st century to consider.:lol::lol:


Not that I am a "wyatt earp" or anything, but I have been a cop for 14+years and counting, in a fairly small (but busy) town with a very good response time and by the time you call and tell us that there is someone in your house and you need help, its still gonna be atleast 2 minutes before we get there to help you. 

Might as well hit em with the cell phone and hope for the best, LOL. Might as well have plan A.5 ready to go.

Just my opinion

J-


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

jjc155 said:


> Not that I am a "wyatt earp" or anything, but I have been a cop for 14+years and counting, in a fairly small (but busy) town with a very good response time and by the time you call and tell us that there is someone in your house and you need help, its still gonna be atleast 2 minutes before we get there to help you.
> 
> Might as well hit em with the cell phone and hope for the best, LOL. Might as well have plan A.5 ready to go.
> 
> ...


 I have no problem with defending you or your loved ones. Actually think that it is prudent that your prepared to do so. However I also feel that it is just as prudent to protect you and your loved ones after the fact. If you read the post carefully I think that you will come to understand what I am referring to. Doing what is necessary to protect you and your family is not a Wyatt Earp mentality, how ever taking it to extremes is.

I do however totally and hole heartedly endorse the cell phone idea.


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## jjc155 (Oct 16, 2005)

GIDEON said:


> I have no problem with defending you or your loved ones. Actually think that it is prudent that your prepared to do so. However I also feel that it is just as prudent to protect you and your loved ones after the fact. If you read the post carefully I think that you will come to understand what I am referring to. Doing what is necessary to protect you and your family is not a Wyatt Earp mentality, how ever taking it to extremes is.
> 
> I do however totally and hole heartedly endorse the cell phone idea.


yep I agree,thats why I had it as plan "A.5", LOL. call 911 first when possible (plan A) and get us coming then do what needs to be done, if needed (plan A.5), LOL. 

J-


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

Gotcha


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