# Bear Hunters without Respect



## Jimbos (Nov 21, 2000)

I was anti using dogs for hunting bear and expressed that opinion strongly on this site. Now due to a bear hunter who uses dogs who patiently explained his methods, and concern regarding his dogs trespassing, out of respect for this person I will no longer paint all dog/bear hunters in a broad brush of them all being slobs/trespassers. These people are as ethical as anyone else in the woods.


----------



## SpringCreek Rock (Jun 10, 2003)

Well we been bear hunting with hounds for more than 40 years, and we respect private property, and have been hunting the same are for this amount of time, we have permission and keys to lots of private property to either go in ourselfs and get our dogs out of the woods or we go in and check on these people's cabin's and other stuff for them as well, we do know one thing you do not want to piss the locals off, because we have heard of lighting striking in the winter time ? For those of you that think shooting someone's dog you are clealy breaking the law yourself, this is no different than someone shootting somthing that belongs to yourself, if someone where to even thing about shooting one of our dogs you will first pull the trigger on me and if that fails you will be in deep trouble then.
As far as dogs on private property as long as they have not been turned luce of private property there is nothing you can do other than call the D.N.R and then the dog owner has every right wheather you like it or not to go on there with the D.N.R officer to get his dogs. We have for more than 40 plus years now been trying to get our dogs to read and have not had any luck yet.
Dont get me wrong there are alot of dog hunters that dont respect private land, but this is buy no means the dogs fault.


----------



## 4x4_Hunter (Jan 2, 2002)

Okay, I have been out and not replied but it looks like I hit on a pretty hot topic. Let me clarify a few things first...
I would never shoot a dog unless it was causing physical harm to someone. I used the words to scare the hunters because they don't know that I wouldn't do so and if they are dumb enough to be tresspassing, they probably won't be smart enough to call the police when they were the original ones breaking the laws. Secondly, we DO own to the center of the road (seasonal or not). I am 100% positive that no one can walk down the middle of the road AND HUNT! Still these bum hunters do it. I have nothing against running hounds for hunting bear. I strongly disagree with the guy that posted the reply of saying that dogs should be able to run all properties, private or not as long as they take the owner out with them. I have no ambitions to go out with any hunter dog hunting. Tell me how dogs come in handy if you only own say 40 acres and you don't go hunt the public grounds? We bought the property for both deer and bear hunting and there is no way that I will go for these dogs running our property. There is 12,000 acres of state land just down the road. I do agree that these guys are probably just some bum hunters that are giving a bad rep to the other bear hunters that run hounds. However, what would be the problem with a minimum acreage restriction on private land for running hounds. You would just have to own or have permission to hunt a minimum of 200 acres of contiguous land?

BTW, Mike L. has the rules correct. I have read every law concerning this and have spoke to many dnr officers AND sherriff deputies.


----------



## Prime Time (Feb 24, 2003)

Just got back from bear camp and had a similar problem. My friend has been baiting for the last month and had 6 different bear coming in. This past weekend we didn't see anything. At first we thought it was just the rain until the DNR stopped by. They told us that property owners in the area were complaining about guys running dogs on their property for the last 4 days and they finally caught up to the guys. This area we hunt is all private property with the nearest state land about 5 miles away. It's sad how some ruin the hunt for others by not following rules. I'm not bashing dog hunters at all, majority of them follow the rules. This stuff will continue to happen whether it's bear, or deer hunting some people just don't care.


----------



## predatordave (Feb 24, 2003)

4x4 my reply to open all private lands and take the owners was a joke, that is why the icon is after it. sorry for making it make you more angry. but now on a serious note you cannot put a private land restriction on running "HOUNDS" since you dont always need 200 acres to run hounds on. what about beagles they are a hound and also i do not always need 200 acres to run my fox hounds and what about **** hounds they dont always need 200 acres it is just too vague of a restriction. instead of putting any more restrictions on any type of hunting, the sportsmen ( like you and me and the others on this site) need to look out for one another and watch for the bums and lazy slobs that like to trespass and break the law in other ways and then turn them in and let the law handle it. 

later, dave


----------



## shotgunner (Jan 15, 2003)

4x4 hunter, i would like to point out a couple of things not mentioned by others that i feel need to surface. you mention that the large public tract is only a short distance from you. once you put down a dog or several dogs, your control over them is gone. it is up to the game at that point as to where they will go and whose place they might go through or end up on. someone mentioned "5 miles away", i can tell you that 5 mi is nothing for a small runner bear or coyote & good hardnd hounds to cover. taking less time than many will believe.
another scenario that we encounter here is the 10-80 acre private tract situated in the middle of the public "bear woods". these can be a real pain for everyone involved. as i'm sure you can imagine, the dogs will end up through or in one at some point. 
running hounds is not always for the sole purpose of taking a game animal. lots of people get all they need from watching or more so listening to the hounds do what they were bred & trained to do. lots of us view a tag as nothing more than a permit to be in the woods "running" during season.
if those fellas deliberatly put hounds in on your place, then they are in the wrong. SG



Report this post to a moderator


----------



## Cooner (Dec 24, 2002)

Who needs antis to take our free casting rights away when we have plenty of hunters in this state willing to do it for them???I feel sorry for this younger generation coming up to hunting age. Sad, very sad.It all boils down to greed & ignorance.I've already accepted my place as the scum of the hunting community by the mere fact that I hunt with hounds. Have a great day guys, I'm going to turn a couple loose & enjoy what precious time I have left. You're welcome to join me anytime & I promise you will be treated right.


----------



## shotgunner (Jan 15, 2003)

say cooner, thats kind of a harsh opinion of yourself & fellow houndsman. alot of these folks don't understand a few things, but they are ready to listen & learn. if you look through this forum not to long ago someone was just saying that they had just gotten their first expierience of a bear chase, and how much they enjoyed it. i have seen some other similer posts as well.
houndsmen have come a long way to get beyond the old typical stereotype that we have lived with for to long. the old days are gone. done, & over. time to get on with the new ones. SG


----------



## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Remember we are all hunters on this site.  

*You only have one time to make a first impression.*

People tend to judge others by their most recent experience. Hunting season is here lets all make an effort to preserve what we have now. If we limit the slobs in our ranks we limit bad first impressions.

Use the RAP line and turn the slobs in every chance you get. Reduce their ranks and preserve our future enjoyment.


----------



## AbbytheGSP (Jul 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Prime Time _
> *Just got back from bear camp and had a similar problem. My friend has been baiting for the last month and had 6 different bear coming in. This past weekend we didn't see anything. At first we thought it was just the rain until the DNR stopped by. They told us that property owners in the area were complaining about guys running dogs on their property for the last 4 days and they finally caught up to the guys. This area we hunt is all private property with the nearest state land about 5 miles away. It's sad how some ruin the hunt for others by not following rules. I'm not bashing dog hunters at all, majority of them follow the rules. This stuff will continue to happen whether it's bear, or deer hunting some people just don't care. *


Hate to tell ya but them dogs are not gonna run 6 bear outta your woods. You can run them same bear day after day on the same bait and they will keep coming back everyday. But then again everyone has to have someone to blame there problems on. I am not saying they were right. but I am saying they were more then likely not the reason you did not see a bear.


----------



## Beaglernr (Dec 1, 2002)

In reading this link, there are a number of issues I see and too many to really try and sort them out. 
The one thing I would like to repond to is the myth of deer and dogs. I run beagles who run rabbits. Most beagle/hunter owners are 100 percent against there dogs running a deer, infact we often have interesting debates on best ways stop/prevent this from happening. I have seen deer get scared while we are running, run 200 yards then turn around and watch us race the rabbits. Well trainned hounds not running deer do not run push the deer off the land. In fact, I have watched deer filter right back to the same area after they have been spooked as we move away from that area. If the deer are not chased, quite frankly the come back quickly. 
So, for you guys worried that dogs will scare the deer away, unless those dogs are chasing the deer it will not interfer with you hunting. This includes bird dogs, short dogs, big dogs as long as the deer are not getting pressured, no big deal. On one of my buds propeties, we went rabbit hunting in the morning (his invitiation) and he killed a deer in the same area that night.
The **** people, bear people I have met do not want there dogs running deer, period.
ok, my 2 cents


----------



## Robert W. McCoy Jr (Jan 18, 2002)

I can tell you with out a doubt dogs do no perminate damage to the deer hunting.

I have ran beagles all over this state. I would have ruined alot of deer hunting land if that was the case.

I have a spot that I run not to far from my house that is FULL of deer. I mean full. There is no hunting allowed because it's in Wayne co. The deer watch us come in and out of there sometimes three times a week and they could care less.

I have yet to see a deer even break stride to get out of the dogs way. In fact one time a deer was bedded down right where my dogs were running and it never got up untill I walked over the hill to watch the race.


----------



## grizzlyadams73 (Jul 13, 2003)

we have also ran into problems with dog hunters. 99% persent of the time these guys were from out of state.
we were sitting at camp one day and a truck pulled up to our gate so we went out side to see what was up. the guy stated if we didnt open the gate he was going to hook the chain in his hand to the gate and pull it down. well that didnt fly to well this situation got really confrontatiuonal. to the point a shot was fired. the guy finally backed down. we got his liscences plate # but the guy was from tenn.
its amazing with only 2% of tags going to out of state hunters the number of hunters from other states.


----------



## Guest (Oct 8, 2003)

I'm a **** hunter and hunt public land 90% of the time.I do have permission to hunt a few private spots.I always respect the law and private property.Michigan does have a right to retrieve law and contrary to what some of you believe you can not legally shoot someones dog on your property. I live in the northeastern lower peninsula here we have plenty of deer.We also have bear and other game that houndsman use dogs to chase.I have never had a problem from anyone with hounds.I could go on and on of problems we have had with deer hunters.Your proposal to ban hunting with hounds or limit their uses is ridiculous.Hounds do not interfere with deer or deer hunting.I deer and **** hunt in the same areas and have never had a problem of seeing or harvesting deer.There have even been studies on this very subject.4X4 I'm guessing your only for the law when it fits your agenda.Didn't you take a buddy road hunting but wait thats illegal and weren't you a part of taking an illegal doe.Didn't you post to that effect at another time?What a hippocrite!!!!By the way I let 98% of the **** my hounds tree live to be chased again you see I just love to hear my hounds in the timber,in still and darkness doing their thing.


----------



## 4x4_Hunter (Jan 2, 2002)

Well there Hillbilly,

Seems you don't read correctly. I never said that we were "road hunting". I did say that we were driving around our property (on OUR trails in 1500 acres of ground) and came across some deer. To not make the story extremely long and boring, I left the part out about us getting out of our trucks and grabbing our guns our of the back of the truck, taking them out of the cases, loading them, and then walking over to get a shot at the deer. I don't believe that is illegal! As for an illegal doe... I mentioned that my buddy accidentally shot two does. I never said that he didn't have a handfull of doe permits! Don't try and read between the lines HillBill, you aren't too good at it!

As for the hounds, if you would have read my later posts, you would see that I am not in favor of shooting anyone's dogs unless they were causing physical harm to an individual (and I bet you the farm that isn't illegal)! Also, if you read the part of the "right to retrieve" law you will see it is legal BUT if the owner tells the hunter he can't, then it is not legal to do so. So, before you come on here and start putting people down in a reply, try reading all of the posts. I think there were very good points in many of them.


----------



## Guest (Oct 10, 2003)

Well Well 4X4,
Didn't you start this thread putting people or a group of people 
down.Why yes I believe you did,and now that the shoes on the
other foot you seem to have your feathers ruffled.Go figure.You
never did say anything about trespassing deer hunters!!Do you
feel that maybee we should ban that as well?Deer hunting that
is.Dogs can't read , what about hunters I'm quite sure they can.


----------



## Kevin Smith (Jul 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by 4x4_Hunter _
> *
> 
> I have to say that I have never bear hunted....
> ...


----------



## 4x4_Hunter (Jan 2, 2002)

Hmmm, not sure why the quote but I think it kind of restates my point. I even gave them the opportunity to come get the dogs off our property and leave. I think this thread should be closed now that the rules have been stated. If some hunters don't want to follow them, then I agree... they are the ones giving a bad rep to the rest of the hound runners that abide by the rules. However, I am pretty sure that these guys that came around this year were the same ones that we told we didn't want to see last year. I don't care who says what, I was perfectly within the law asking these guys to leave and never come back. They had no business being around our property to begin with since there are hundreds of acres of state ground just down the road. The reason that I have never mentioned deer hunters tresspassing is because we do a lot of deer hunting and I think people are a lot more sceptical about tresspassing during deer season because of the good chances of getting caught. I do agree though that ANY tresspassers should be prosecuted!!! That is my last opinion on this subject!


----------



## Kevin Smith (Jul 16, 2003)

Let me break it down for ya:

never been bear hunting - ya got a lot of opinion on it for never doing it

some guys on a road made ya mad? 

guys tree countless bears that are left...purely negative speculation on your part

threatening their dogs?? Come on...

Thus the rolling of the eyes on all accounts.


----------



## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

This is going nowhere in a hurry.


----------

