# right of way?



## MOMS (Dec 11, 2000)

i have a question of right of way to lake access. i was always under the impression that any water within 30' of center of paved road was a public access (or considered so). lately, i have been seeing more of these areas closed to fisherman. example... the north side of murray lake now has a NO PARKING sign.
and now i see that tower lake has the same thing. both are within 30' of center line of a paved road. just wondering how legal the access is. can i still park across the road and walk in without a ticket? any advice? moms


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## malainse (Sep 2, 2002)

Moms, based on where you live I am guessing that you are talking about Murray and Tower Lake's in Kent county. Both are open to the public for fishing so that is not an issue.....

33' from the center of the road in most areas is the County's (road commmissions) right-of-way not the publics. 

No parking and lake access have nothing to do with eachother. Most no parking is put up for public/traffic safety reasons. Could be a number of reasons that the signs were put up. Most times on the lake side, the side of the road can not support vehicles or guys are parking on boths sides of the road an becomes a safety issues. 

I would call the Road Commission and ask the reasons for the signs being put up....


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Remember a right-of-way is granted for vehicular traffic, not necessarily for access to an adjacent area. Good idea that malainse provided about the no parking signs but just knowing why they were put up would not allow you to park there obviously. I would also suggest contacting the District Office for that area and check with Lt. VanSumeren at 231-788-1134 about legal access to the lakes if you are talking about lakes in Kent County. Of course VanSumeren can do nothing about no parking signs placed by the road commission.


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## MOMS (Dec 11, 2000)

hey, thanks for the quick replies. and thanks especially for the name and number of the road commission. moms


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## Butch (Aug 29, 2001)

Mal and/or Boehr-

I'm curious about a wading fisherman's use of a road right-of-way for access to a navigable stream at a bridge. Mal, you mentioned that the County, not the public, holds the right to the "right-of-way". Boehr, you mentioned that the public's use is for vehicular traffic only(and I recall you've mentioned this before, but I just scratched my head then). If I understand your points, you are saying a person isn't necessarily entitled to walk along the right-of-way into the river(or lake) that intersects it? 

Where does that fisherman exceed his right to walk into the stream? People clearly have a right to travel by foot(or bicycle or other non-"vehicular" means) along a road right-of-way, unless forbidden by the govt unit(e.g. expressways). The traveler's mode of travel OR destination, be it a trout stream or a driveway, almost certainly is not limited in the legal documents that record the right-of-way. Does the problem arise when the person steps beyond the improved part of the roadway? If so, what is "improved"? e.g. the surfaced part? Mowed shoulder? What about a 2-track county road?

I'm not trying to be a nit-picker, but I have a lot of horses in this race. 1) I like to access trout steams at bridges(i.e. I prefer loose interpretation). 2)I also have property on a trout stream that is bordered by a section line right-of way(township, not county, I think) where there is no road or public improvement. I always assumed I can exclude fisherman from walking the 1/4 mile across my property down the forested right-of-way to the river because there is no road or public use of that right-of way.(i.e.I prefer tight interpretation) 3)Also, my property borders a county road that strays from the recorded right-of-way. My driveway entrance is within the 66' right-of-way, but more than 33' from the edge of the right-of-way to the improved road. In other words, my neighbor across the street actually owns a few feet of my driveway, but I've taken the position that it's still in the County's right of-way so I have a right to drive on it to get to my property(i.e loose). 4)conversely, part of my property is on the other side of the river and landlocked except for the an undeveloped right-of-way(i.e.a continuation of the same right-of-way, but across the river). Neighbors on that side of the river have gated me off from my landlocked property. I've assumed I have no right to travel 3/4 of a mile from the nearest road down the undeveloped right-of way to get to my property, because the right-of-way is undeveloped.(i.e.I prefer loose) 5) Finally, a major snowmobile trail crosses my driveway. The snowmoblies usually travel on the right-of-way, but off the improved road. By doing this they pack down any fresh snow and plowed-up snow, making it hard to get into my driveway and create a danger. Can I make them ride on the improved part of the roadway(legal in that county)(i.e.tight)?

I'm not asking you to solve all my concerns, but I'm trying to show that I have competing preferences in this question, so I just want to know where the public is allowed to travel. I can draw my own conclusions from that 1 answer.

Thanks and sorry for the long message.

Butch


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Butch, I understand exactly what you are saying because I get many people calling about some of your same concerns everyday. Bike riding, snowmobiles and snowmobile trails alongside roads when the county doesn't allow snowmobiles on the plowed right-of-way, etc., etc. It is impossible to provide answers for every circumstance. Sometimes dealing with different units of government getting different answers is very confusing and makes people, including myself very upset sometimes, been there doing that with snowmobile issues at the present time..

I can only provide general answers unless there is a more direct question for example, the name of a lake or stream and exact the location you are asking about. Even then, if I'm not familiar with that location and that location is not in my District I may not be able to provide a positive yes or no answer. Every location has its own special set of circumstances. Most county roads have a 33 foot right-of-way but some have more and obviously according to the above post by MOMS, some might have less (30 feet). I have seen everything from a very small (like 2 feet) strip of land owned by one person completely around a lake, to township ordinances, or court injunctions effect possible answers. For one to avoid problems you must be specific. Best, if it is questionable, is to call the local office for the location you are referring to so they will have better knowledge about the location youre talking about.

Many of those same callers from the phone calls I get prefer just like the rest of us, tight or loose interpretations depending on our own circumstances, feelings or opinions about a particular area.


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## malainse (Sep 2, 2002)

I agree and could not have said it better myself!!!!!


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## Butch (Aug 29, 2001)

Thanks guys. I know I was asking for a simple answer to a difficult question(s). I hope you realize I 'm not trying to trap you, just faced with numerous questions in the "real world". I guess it's not easy, lol. Thanks for your attention.

Butch


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## Oakley (May 19, 2003)

You may want to be cautious about allowing consistent public travel on an area that is not currently defined as "right-of-way". If I'm not mistaken (and I could be because I'm not an attorney) legally, if the public uses a portion of your property for travel, and you know about it for 10 years or more without trying to stop them, that travel route can be legally taken in Michigan under the "highway by user" law. That law then defines the travel way as a centerline with a right-of way two rods wide on either side of the centerline (2 rods is 33 feet).


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