# Heating a cottage for year round use



## bowhuntordie (Mar 24, 2007)

I'm looking to gets some ideas/advise. I have a cottage in Caseville that we use from late April through the end of November depending on weather. I want to be able to use the place year round and need to figure out the best way to heat the place. It is about 850sqft one bedroom house built on a crawl with a well. The front has a small addition on it with two beds. The bathroom is on the back of the house through the bedroom. Right now we have a Franklin stove for heat. The pump and all the plumbing is down in the crawl space. I was looking into a horizontal furnace to put down in the crawl, I thought this would take care of the plumbing freezing in the winter. I want to be able to keep the place open year round without draining the pipes if that is possible. I do not have the room to put a furnace in the house. We do have natural gas so I would prefer to use that for heat. I will keep the Franklin stove to heat the place while we are up there. I am just sick of waking up every couple hours to feed it. I would like to bump up the thermostat at night that way we don't freeze when the fire goes out. My biggest concern are the pipes freezing when we are not there. Any ideas or tips would be greatly appreciated


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

Everything you said sounds doable.
I'd budget 3k for the unit and install, and 80/mos to keep pipes from freezing.


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## bowhuntordie (Mar 24, 2007)

I have been reading that putting a furnace in the crawl is a bad idea. Moisture build up leads to mold...is this something I need to be concerned with? I plan on putting a vapor barrier in the crawl and insulating it as well.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Sounds like a perfect place for a Williams Comfort heater.

That's the new version of the warm morning heater. Easy install, And works if the power goes out.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Get rid of the Franklin stove and put in an air tight stove. Load before bed and restoke first thing in the morning. Stay warm all night too. You can probably find a cheap one on Craigslist.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

Since you are in a seasonal area, the local hardware should be able to steer you to a handy man.
No way you can not freeze your pipes if you want to keep it year round without draining the water and not have the heat on. You do not want to freeze the pump.
I'd drain the system each time you're up there and put anti freeze in all the traps and toilet bowl and tank.
Keep the natural gas furnace at about 55-60.
Get rid of the Franklin and get an air tight stove with outside air induction.


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## bowhuntordie (Mar 24, 2007)

2508speed said:


> Since you are in a seasonal area, the local hardware should be able to steer you to a handy man.
> No way you can not freeze your pipes if you want to keep it year round without draining the water and not have the heat on. You do not want to freeze the pump.
> I'd drain the system each time you're up there and put anti freeze in all the traps and toilet bowl and tank.
> Keep the natural gas furnace at about 55-60.
> Get rid of the Franklin and get an air tight stove with outside air induction.


I do plan on heating the place year round. I plan on keeping it set at 55 while we are not there. I am trying to set it up so I do not have to drain the pipes everytime we leave. If I do that then everytime I come up I would have to reprime the pump, or is there a way around that?


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## Crawfish (May 7, 2002)

bowhuntordie said:


> I do plan on heating the place year round. I plan on keeping it set at 55 while we are not there. I am trying to set it up so I do not have to drain the pipes everytime we leave. If I do that then everytime I come up I would have to reprime the pump, or is there a way around that?


Keeping it at 55 inside may still allow freezing in the crawlspace, depending on insulation and air infiltration/ventilation of crawl space. Sealing up crawlspace may not by ideal depending on moisture conditions. 

Not knowing how the place is finished (drywall? paneling? ) is there any chance of bringing the plumbing up through the floor in one location close to the pump, then branching out from there? Then you could possibly enclose/insulate just the pump, use a small electric heater to heat that enclosure instead of heating the entire crawlspace. You'd still need to insulate the floor and heat the cabin interior, but that may be easier than conditioning the entire crawl space.


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

Yeap, get it setup so that you can easily blow the lines out with air and be done with the worries. Even if you have a furnace that works, what happens if the power goes out for a week while you are not there?


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

I can remember rolling a water heater down a hill to the road just south of the Little Point Suable Light House one winter. It was solid with ice. The heat went out in the cottage. Luckily not many walls had to be destroyed to fix the broken pipes.

That place was better off than the one where the heat went off and froze every thing. Problem is the owner never shut off the pump when they left. Water was running out the daylight windows in the basement. Ruined all the work she had us do in the basement two years before plus it did not help the beautiful knotty pine up stairs.

Then there was the place at Stoney Lake where the owner never notified the plumbing shop to drain it. I do not know how bad that one was as I was just at the shop when one of the plumbers came in from being sent to turn it back on in the spring.

To many things can go wrong to take chances with a place that does not get checked regularly. We had a plumber in the area that put all of the lines in with a level, all sloping to a couple drain valves in the basement or crawl space that had red tags on them so all the water in the place was simple to drain t by it self.

That Franklin stove costs you more heat than you get. I took one out of a big house and their heat bill went down. It got replaced with an air tight, then they saved money instead of sending their $$$ up the chimney


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## grapestomper (Jan 9, 2012)

I blow my camp water lines out with a small compressor. It takes maybe 10 minutes. My lines are pitched to drain though. Then I blow the well line for maybe 10 seconds to make sure the water is pushed below frost line. Works like a charm. We go their all winter and turn the water off and on each time. 
a little antifreeze in toilets and traps and good to go. 
Get rid of the franklin stove. 
Airtight stove off craigslist.


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## MEL (Jul 17, 2005)

Fully encapsulate the crawl. Add spray foam or the blue or pink foam board to walls. Properly seal (spray foam) and insulated the rim joists and add a good, thick vapor barrier to floor and extend up the side walls and seal.

Attic should be air sealed and insulated with r49 or more (my attic is r60) .Dont use any fiberglas. Foam is best but 4x as expensive. Cellulose is a great product when comparing dollar invested to payback.

Now youve just sealed the house up real good. Add your horizontal furnace in the crawl. I havent checked but there may be sensors to tell you if power goes out.


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## bowhuntordie (Mar 24, 2007)

Thanks everyone for the advise and tips. Looks like I have more to look into. I have been planning on replacing the Franklin with an air tight stove. I have the place set up to blow out the lines so maybe that's what I'll do for now.


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## tuckersdad (Oct 30, 2010)

Be advised...there are a lot of jurisdictions that require crawls to be vented (while I don't agree)...so insulating walls over vents would be a code violation...also the requirement for fire-rated material over insulation...etc...we could debate the merits of regulations but you might want to see what your locals would accept...good luck with your project...and if it is paid for and nobody sees it-do what you think is best...


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## Jimbos (Nov 21, 2000)

MEL said:


> Fully encapsulate the crawl. Add spray foam or the blue or pink foam board to walls. Properly seal (spray foam) and insulated the rim joists and add a good, thick vapor barrier to floor and extend up the side walls and seal.
> 
> Attic should be air sealed and insulated with r49 or more (my attic is r60) .Dont use any fiberglas. Foam is best but 4x as expensive. Cellulose is a great product when comparing dollar invested to payback.
> 
> Now youve just sealed the house up real good. Add your horizontal furnace in the crawl. I havent checked but there may be sensors to tell you if power goes out.


I was going to get my crawl encapsulated in the spring, and my furnace is already in my crawl space, does the furnace give off enough heat to keep the temperature up? I guess I never thought of it before.


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## MEL (Jul 17, 2005)

Jimbos said:


> I was going to get my crawl encapsulated in the spring, and my furnace is already in my crawl space, does the furnace give off enough heat to keep the temperature up? I guess I never thought of it before.


It should, provided its PROPERLY Insulated and air sealed.


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## MEL (Jul 17, 2005)

tuckersdad said:


> Be advised...there are a lot of jurisdictions that require crawls to be vented (while I don't agree)...so insulating walls over vents would be a code violation...also the requirement for fire-rated material over insulation...etc...we could debate the merits of regulations but you might want to see what your locals would accept...good luck with your project...and if it is paid for and nobody sees it-do what you think is best...


Realize that if the city requires venting then all you do is cut a venting hole. Add a insulated vent cover, if needed/required.

I dont think venting should be required in a properly encapsulated crawl, its kind of unneeded after proper encapsulation. But then again, I dont set citys codes.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

There are a huge amount of crawl spaces without heat out there, possibly even the majority of houses and mobile homes....And the water doesn't freeze if the house is heated. Replace the Franklin, with a gas heater, like I mentioned earlier (works if the power goes out)Close the crawl space vents, turn the heat down and it's good to go.

He is talking about a small cottage, not the Taj Mahal.


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## deepwoods (Nov 18, 2002)

I haven't seen anyone mention heat tape. We put that on all of our plumbing and haven't had any issues since (10 years?). We still blow everything out with a small compressor if we aren't coming back soon along with AF in all the traps. I feel better just in case our furnace quits. We have a Warm Morning furnace. If we are coming back soon we have all the lines, including the hot water tank, set up to drain outside. I don't remember the brand of the heat tape we used but it could overlap itself and be covered in insulation. Some cannot. Was a real easy install using nylon ties. If it's crazy cold we will still start the furnace and let it run for an hour or so just to be safe before starting the pump just to take the chill off the pipes in the house.

My Uncle has an above ground pump and I believe he uses a cattle tank heater. Keeps it well above freezing if you can box it in.


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## spartannation (Jan 14, 2016)

I'm with swampbuck. My "shack" is about 500 sf with dirt crawl that is well insulated and as long as I keep heat in the place around 50 my pipes will not freeze. I also keep the sink base doors open to allow heat to the pipes. Ceiling fan on low for circulation and you're good to go. I think a vented gas heater with thermostat is the best bet.


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