# Rye



## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

I've got a food plot question. Last year I planted a new food plot with clover in Washtenaw County. Unfortunately I was a little late getting it in the ground and with the drought the clover crop failed. In late Aug. I planted the plot with rye and it created an awesome hunting spot and drew deer much better than other clover field that did OK. I passed up several fair bucks and almost had an opportunity at a real whopper from a tree stand over that plot. I have not had any previous experience with rye, or any other annual cover crop for that matter. I was planning to mow the rye in this year during mid-July then till and replant it by late Aug. again with more rye. I'll be away from home from Mid-July through late Aug. Does this sound like a good plan?


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

Rye offers little nutrutional value during the hunting months, less in the early spring, and nothing during the summer.

Personally, If your deer liked the rye, I'd go with a oats/clover mix in August, in which you have the highly preferred value of oats during fall, and then the oats will die out during the winter, and you will be left with pure clover for the spring and summer months, of which clover shines the most. You can then do the same thing next fall, or possibly rotate a clover/brassica mix as well.

In this way you are targeting your initial planting with a great fall draw, but with the additional benifit of later development of the clover for the rest of the warmer months.

In this way you do not have the hassle of rye or wheat mixed with your clover the following summer. The oats are highly preferred in the hunting season, they die out, and you are left with a highly preferred species in the spring/summer months-clover! Brassicas die out in the winter as well, and generally work about the same.

I'll use Buck Forage Oats this year. I've had a couple of friends try them side by side with MI oats. The BF oats lasted a couple months longer, and were highly preferred over side-by side plantings of wheat, MI oats, and clover.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

T.S.,
That should work. I never thought about mowing field rye. Any reason not to disk it under now ? Hard to beat rye for a fall harvest plot if you pick a good location. And it doesn't take a lot.
N.J.,
Do you know a site where I could compare nutritional values of crops that we commonly use for food plots ? Seems to me that you are discounting the caloric/mineral value of rye. 

L & O


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## answerguy8 (Oct 15, 2001)

Not exactly want you wanted but it's a start.
http://www.oxbowhay.com/art_nutrient_analysis.htm


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

I don't have the numbers right in front of me, but off the top of my head, rye is somewhere around the 15% range for protein, compared to mid 30's for brassicas. But that's probably not a big deal.

A good brassica field should yeild approximately 4 tons or sometimes higher, of forage per acre, when planted mid-july with adequate moisture, according to Neil Dougherty, Biologic's northern field director.

I would guess that rye would be much less, but I don't have the exact numbers.

While I would question the tonage of yeild per acre per other varieties, that's not the main concern.

The main concern is this:

The protein level of rye and nutritional level is probably average when compared to other fall forages, but is only utalized by whitetails very briefly in the spring, and virtually not at all in the summer. Rye is basically average for hunting season varieties, which isn't bad, but does very little to nothing the rest of the year for the local herd.

Also, rye is usually lower on the preferance list, listed 3rd behind Oats-first, and wheat-2nd. The problem with rye or wheat is that it comes back up in the spring and summer, while offering nothing to the local herd, and then outcompetes or hinders greatly any preferred spring and summer species, such as clover.

A fall(July-brassicas, later for oats) planting of oats/clover, or brassicas/clover, provides for a great hunting season draw, while at the same time giving you and annual crop that dies out during the winter(oats and brassicas), and leaves you with a great spring/summer variety(clover-even chicory), without competition. Basically, you get just about a 4 season variety with this type of planting, compared to an avg. 1 season draw with straight rye. Basically more "bang for your buck".

I've used rye on all of my fields for a 1/2 season, when the field is new, but I usually till under the following spring to plant something good for the spring/summer months, and then don't plant it again unless I have some trouble bares spots in my fields that need to be filled in, and it is too late to plant a better variety.

I have also used rye on a new field in the fall, but with clover. The following July I mowed the 1/2 brown stalks of rye, and was left with a decent stand of clover for the remaining summer months, followed by a fall planting of a brassica/clover combo. I've also done the same with a light rye with clover mix, not mowed the following year, and the deer seemed to avoid the area with rye stalks until later during the hunting season, giving the clover a break from overbrowsing, and quite a bit more volume going into the later hunting season. The later method was only because I ran out of time to mow and take care of that field like I should have.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Thanks answerguy. Looks like it's hard to beat alfalfa and that's a good thing because we have some many fields of alfalfa hay being grown for cattle.
I'm going to assume that field rye has about the same amount of protein as rye grass. Not much protein difference between oats and rye.
North Jeff,
For most of us in Central or Southern Michigan protein is not an issue. I believe that if I were putting in food plots in the UP that I would continue to use rye or winter wheat because it would give the deer good food as long as it wasn't under a foot of snow. If you drive around my area in mid-March and see 75 deer in a field you can just about bet that it is a rye or winter wheat field because this is the only thing that is green and available for deer to eat. 
Trophy Specialist,
I should've mentioned that if you do disk your rye under planting that area to buckwheat will keep the deer coming to that area in July & Aug. Then turn that under and plant your rye again by the 1st of Sept.
From my experience, this works pretty good. As others have said many times....deer will eat almost anything, plant a variety of their favorite things for the best results if you have the resources.

L & O


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

The rye that I used is called Marshall Ryegrass made by The Wax Company. It's an annual ryegrass that is supposed to reseed itself. They recommend a mowing during mid-summer, so that's what I want to try and if it needs more seeding, then I'll do that during late Aug. I first heard about this stuff when I was hunting down south. They use it a lot on Dixie "green fields", which are what we Yankees call, "food plots." The stuff is advertised as cold and heat tolerant. It was originally designed as a high protein, cattle forage crop and is planted in late summer and can be grazed all fall, winter and spring. I read an article where the protein content of in Marshall Ryegrass was higher than all other tested forages, as high as 35% crude protein and it outproduced all other forages in tonnage per acre also. The deer hit the plot that I planted with the stuff hard. The deer in my area have all the alfalfa, corn, wheat and oats that can eat in nearby fields. The deer kept my rye plot grazed down all fall and winter and it stayed green until the bitter cold, subzero weather we had during January. Even with a hard snowcover, the deer still were digging for the stuff all winter. It was also the first thing to green up in spring too and the deer hit it hard until a nearby, newly planted alfalfa field came up, then they shifted to it. Without any grazing, the ryegrass sprang up to waist high by mid-April and hasn't been touched by the deer at all since early April. It formed seed heads by mid-May and when it did, the turkeys really moved in hard and they are still in there thick. I went out to the rye field yesterday and bumped a bunch of turkeys from it. I also stumbled into a newly hatched clutch of turkey chicks that were about 3-4" tall. The hen gave me the full broken wing act. I may try to obtain some Buck Oats and plant part of that plot with oats and the other with ryegrass to see what happens. I think that with the outstanding growth rate of the Marshall Ryegrass, it would be great in areas where overgrazing is a problem. I'm going to seed my new roadbeds on my U.P. property with the ryegrass and will also try to seed parts of some of my clover fields with the stuff too. Those U.P. deer graze my clover to the dirt by late Oct. Maybe the ryegrass will last longer there and contunue to draw the deer in through Nov. Also, the Marshall Ryegrass is farily cheap. I paid $12 for a 50lb. bag of seed.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Liver and Onions _
> *if you do disk your rye under planting that area to buckwheat will keep the deer coming to that area in July & Aug. *


If I was to disk is I would certainly kill a bunch of turkey and pheasant chicks. While I'm not a turkey hunter (too busy fishing in the spring), I still like seeing them around. I also don't have to worry about keeping deer around in that area. We have enough quality habitat around to serve all the deers' needs. My main goal is to draw them into bow range during Oct. and Nov. The other plot that I have in the area has not been drawing many deer in and it's planted with clover, however it does provide some the best rabbit hunting I've ever seen though. The deer in the area have tons of clover growing in fallow fields, so it's nothing special to them. I think they just want something different in their diets, thus the attraction of rye.


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

L&O,

As I said in my post, the protein level is probably not a big deal.

Here are the problems for rye:

1.It offers decent values in the fall, but the tonnage per acre is probably low compared to other fall plantings. Maybe even a couple of tons per acre.

2.It offers decent values in the fall, but little in the spring, and none in the summer months.

3.When planted with a much spring/summer preferred and nutritionally superior crop such as clover, it can outcompete and hinder growth the following spring and summer.

4.It's basically an average, 1 season crop.

In the UP, it is a marginal crop. When the snow is a few inches around my house, the deer move, and don't stop for a crop covered any amount, by snow. Brassicas, on the other hand, if a foot high going into snow, will be fed on until gone by migrating deer. 

When the deer return in the spring, they go straight for the clover, which if the deer are back from the yards, has already strarted to green up.

So you plant the rye in Mid-August, the deer eat clover until mid-to late october, they then eat the rye for the first couple weeks of November, the snow comes, and it's use is done. Comparitively, you plant clover in the spring, the deer use it hardily and often within a few weeks, and utalize it fully until late October. They then use it and prefer it as soon as they come back from the yards in the spring. 

Clover is basically highler preferred, highly nutritional, very palatable, for 6 to 7 months of the year around here, and a little longer down state. Rye around here is preferred over clover for less than a month, and that's it. It also hinders the growth of the 6. to 7 month crop when planted in combo. Thats why planting clover in combo with brassicas or oats is so awesome, it not only gives you that extra draw during the 1 month that clover slows down, but it doesn't hinder the 6 to 7 month crop. Your planting then becomes a 7 to 8 month crop, or longer as opposed to a straight rye planting of less than a month in the UP, and a few months to the south.

Do you really want to plant a crop that is not used by deer for months during the warm seasons, and is just an average performer in the hunting season?

TS,

Try Buck Forage Oats. My friends in the thumb planted it last year next to rye, MI oats, and wheat. The deer walked over the others to get to the BF oats. The BF oats also stayed green into late winter-a couple of months longer than the MI oats.

All I am saying is why not try something that would give you an equal or possibly better draw in the fall, but still have another crop that will be available for the spring to summer months? If you are already planting anyways, just throw some extra seed out.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

> _Originally posted by NorthJeff _
> *I'd go with a oats/clover mix in August*


Have you had any experience planting the oats over an already established, perenial clover plot?

Becuase the deer graze down to the dirt my U.P. clover plots, I'm looking for ways to continue to draw in deer to those plots after the clover is gone.


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## Swamp Ghost (Feb 5, 2003)

> I'm going to seed my new roadbeds on my U.P. property with the ryegrass


I planted two tracks with it and it worked great, I also planted strips in some of my clover, I can attest to the attration of winter rye, the deer hammered it. I am trying some BFO and winter wheat this year instead of the rye, the only reason I tried the rye is because the elevator ran out of winter wheat.


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

TS,

Thats where a combo works great when planted in August-either the brassicas or the oats.

The oats will keep the grazing pressure off of the clover during the hunting months, allowing it to establish itself, and then you will be left with pure clover the following spring. 

I don't have experience planting oats over clover, but if I tried it, I'd probably lightly disk first, and then plant, to expose some dirt.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

T.S.
Right, you don't want to disk down ryegrass. Field rye is a different story. I would like to try a bag of that rye. I just called my local co-op and they that hadn't heard of it. Were you able to buy that locally or did you have to order it ? Can you dig up a number or website for us ?
L & O


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## Swamp Ghost (Feb 5, 2003)

Marshall Ryegrass


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

I ordered it from a seed dealer in Chelsea. Do a search on it in Google for "marshall ryegrass" and you can read lots of stuff about it.


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## answerguy8 (Oct 15, 2001)

Scroll down to 'Cleaned feed wheat" and click on "our wildlife planting tips" . LOTS of good info there!


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## wild bill (Apr 20, 2001)

we have had great results with the rye we planted on our logging trails up north. we planted in late august and after the deer finished off the clover you could find them on the trails. i have not tried the marshall before but i will this fall. i know a lot of people in ga plant it as a fail proof plot.


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## DEERSLAYER (Mar 29, 2000)

If it aint broke don't fix it.  You said it turned the location into an "awsome" spot. It's hard to mess with that. However, it might not hurt to add to it.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

I just checked on my rye field and the turkeys are in their like crazy. The stuff is now about 5' high and the turkeys are knocking it down and eating the seeds. I did get some good photos today. There's a bunch of chicks around there and they have gotten twice as big in just the last few days. There's also a couple gobblers too. I may have to apply for a turkey permit next year. 

I just spoke to Jake Butler who's the man behind Buck Forage Oats. He told me you could not over-plant BFAs over an existing perenial clover plot because the oats need to be planted about 2" deep and you would tear up your clover in the process. You guys have convinced me to try the BFAs and I plan to plant half of a plot with them in late Aug. We'll see what happens.


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

TS, I'm also going to plant some Buck Forage Oats, perhaps in two plots, this August. In one of the plots, which is almost a perfectly square half acre (55x50 yds), I plan on conducting an experiment, planting one half with BFO, and the other half with regular seed oats. I will measure deer preference, as well as the date at which they "freeze out". The oats will be disked in, cultipacked, and fertilized in an identical manner, on the same day.

Having observed puffed-up claims of deer preference by seed vendors which proved to be exaggerations, (ie., no more preferred by deer than plain old bulk, certified seed, properly planted and fertilized), I'm really looking forward to this experiment.


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

I re-read your post, TS. Five feet high already - wow!

I assume your ryegrass lodges (lays flat) once heavy winter snows arrive. Does it stay up 5 ft. high, say, into December? Must provide pretty good deer cover.

Do pheasants/quail nest in the stuff? 

Any idea how long the stand will persist without burning or re-planting?

Sounds like something worth experimenting with. I bet Birdsfoot Trefoil, which is able to compete with cool-season grasses, would be a good complement within the Marshall ryegrass. Kind of like the common "timothy-trefoil" mix that many advocate.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

Here's the history on that plot. I cleared it in the winter of 2001 and it was mostly brush with some 10' high pines growing in it that I left there. I mowed the opening a few times in the summer of 2001. I sprayed it with Roundup in April 2002. Because I got busy fishing, I couldn't break ground on the plot until the end of May. I had tested my pH (used a kit from Antler King) and it came out almost 6.0. I added lime and a few hundred pounds of 0-20-20. The plot was disked over many times and I also went over it last using a homemade cultipacker, which I got the plans from in The Whitetail Institute's publication. I planted IWC in the plot on about the 1st of June and went over it again to set the seeds. The clover germinated well, but it was extremely dry in my area from mid-June all summer and most of the clover died soon after sprouting. I disked the plot again in late August, planted the Marshall Ryegrass on it and lightly disked it in and cultipacked it. It germinated after about a week and the deer starting hitting it right away. The deer (and rabbits) kept it nibbled down all fall and it never got more than 6" high. It stayed green until late December when super cold weather laid it down. It was the first thing to green back up in the spring (March). The deer hit it for a while and then abandoned it entirely by about April 1. Then with nothing grazing on it, the ryegrass shot up like crazy. By late April it was knee high. By early may it was waist high and started to form seed heads. I think it's done growing now and the seed heads are fully formed and it's starting to turn brownish. The turkeys have knocked over most of the stuff now, but what is standing is about chin high. Needless to say, the ryegrass out competed everything else in the plot accept for a little clover that sprouted up along the edges (must have been the stuff I planted last spring). The stalks on the ryegrass are so long and tough that I figure I'll have to mow it and let it lay there and rot for a while before I can disc it in. It will be interesting to see if the stuff re-seeds itself or if I have to seed it myself again in late August.


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## marty (Jan 17, 2000)

Here's my two on rye. I've planted it for a lot of years now and can say it will grow just about anyplace. Even out of the back of my license plate on my old truck.  . The deer will hit it soon after it comes up in the fall but just a bit in the spring as rye beomes stemy and they don't seem to hit it.

I turned my rye over now as it makes for a good green manure crop. Try tossing in some drawft essex rape with it in the fall. When it gets tall and you hear the brush hog cut it. The fellow said sounded like wire being cut........Marty


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

Here's an update on my Marshall rye grass plot. Because of a hectic summer salmon fishing schedule, I was unable to do anything with the plot all summer. I checked it for the first time this summer, yesterday and the stalks were all knocked down and the seeds seemed to have all been eaten. Turkeys hit the plot very hard during the spring and I suspect that the turkeys and other birds ate the seeds when they matured. I also had plenty of deer sign in the plot as well. Several well used, major trials run through it. I mowed the plot thoroughly yesterday to grind up all the stems. I then tilled it, fertilized it, and then disced it lightly. I then seeded the plot with Marshall Ryegrass with a broadcast spreader and then packed it down. I had planned to plant half of the plot with Buck Oats and the other half with Marshall rye grass as a test comparison. I was supposed to get the oats delivered during Aug. but they never arrived and I haven't had a chance to follow up on the situation yet. My Marshall rye grass did arrive though, and since I'm already somewhat late, that's what I planted. I planted my leftover rye from last year on some new roads I carved into my U.P. hunting property. I also tilled up part of my backyard food plot last night. Most of it is planted in clover but about 1/4 acre was planted in an annual last year. I plan to plant the rest of my Marshall rye grass in my back yard today, which should provide me with plenty of wildlife viewing all fall and next spring as well. A lot of deer have been hitting my back yard clover plot this summer, so much so that I hung a stand about 100 yards behind my house where several trails intersect as they enter the back of the plot.


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## Rico (Mar 15, 2001)

TS,

You made a mistake. I know you hung that stand at least 450ft from your house.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Rico _
> *I know you hung that stand at least 450ft from your house.  *


The stand is on my own property and is well beyond any of my neighbors safty zones (450'), so therefore the 450' rule does not apply to me behind my own house. In fact someone could legally shoot a deer from inside their own house providing they do not infringe on a neighbors safty zone. Also, the safty zone rule only applies if neighbors won't give permission to hunt within 450' of their dwelling. That's the law accoding to the Hunting and Trapping Guide.


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