# Would like to trap a red fox, what do I need to get started



## Steve

I know I have a red fox in my area and would like to try trapping it while I am up north for a week at the beginning of November. What's the best trap and technique for such an animal?


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## griffondog

See you at Gander Mountain this Saturday at 2:00. I'm going to be doing a predator trapping demo.

Griff


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## Steve

I'll be up north or I'd come. What Gander Mountain out of curiosity.


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## griffondog

Novi Steve. If you want to pull rank Pm me and we'll get together and you'll get a private lesson.:coolgleam I don't think you live to far from me.


Mike


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## Mister ED

Steve - 

While you are waiting on the private lesson from Griff ... take a look at the Trapping Technique section, listed up above. Some good info in those posts. Several on fox and don't ignore the ones for yotes either.


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## Steve

Here's a pictures of the little guy I want to get marking his territory.










Found the thread about making dirt hole sets for these guys. Seems pretty 
straight forward. I don't understand what the wax paper does though. Also
how far from this territory marking would you setup a trap? Obviously I don't
want to set it up right under where I'll be deer hunting.


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## griffondog

Nice grey fox picture Steve. Your going to be buying some Mb 450 traps from F&t for that little critter.

Mike


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## David G Duncan

Steve,

Definitely take Mike up on his offer to give you some personal instruction. He is one of the best fox trappers in Michigan. Besides he will keep you entertained with his funny funny stories!

Ask him to tell you about the height challenged individual that took advantage of him a bar one night.

I almost slit a gut laughing so hard at our recent trapping convention, when he shared that one with us. Too say the least, we do have a good time drinking and sharing stories around the campfire during these annual conventions.

I know you will not regret trying your hand at trapping. Who knows, you might even get bit by the trapping bug and end up hooked like the rest of us.


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## FREEPOP

Nice looking grey fox. Good luck with your efforts in catching him. If you do, let me know if it thinks it is tough


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## Steve

Ok, now that I feel real stupid calling it a red fox here's my tenative order to F&T. Let me know if I'm missing anything.

Caven's Minnesota Grey Lure - 1 oz. $4.50 
12" Waterproof Gloves $3.95 
Standard Wood Sifter $6.95 
MB-450-FOX Coil Spring Trap (Cast Jaws) - Each $15.25 
Double Stake Swivels - Dozen $6.45
Rebar Stakes - 18" 1/2 Dozen $12.95

Let me know if I'm missing anything. Hope those fox pelts are worth something! Ah I probably wouldn't sell it anyway. The post in the archive http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159173 is very informative. Now for another question, how do you select a good location? Obviously near or at the place I took the picture would be a good location, but I want to deer hunt there quite possibly at the same time I'm trapping.


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## griffondog

Steve a couple suggestions for you. Get the 450 FH trap instead of the fox. The FH trap has springs that will hold a coyote. The fox series is for southern fox trapping. Buy some extre swivels for the traps, your going to need three on each trap. I would use cable stakes instead of re- rod. They will hold the baddest coyote. I switched over to finned super stakes this year. They will last forever. You'll need a driver for them.

As far as location goes tracks and poop! You see tracks or poop make a set. Lots of tracks and poop make more sets. Trails, two tracks, pinch points from big fields. Power lines, rivers, railroad tracks are all spots they will use to move from one area to another. In the winter set cover in farming areas. Hope this helps.

If the area your trapping has more coyotes than fox I would use the mb550 trap. For mostly fox and **** the 450 would be a better trap.


Griff


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## Mister ED

Dang Griff ... you're gonna have him scared off by the price of that trap (granted it is a great trap). Do you think he would be better served with a less expensive trap ... at least until he decides if this is something he really wants to get into?


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## griffondog

Ed I have it from a insider that Steve bought oil stock at 46 dollers and sold at 138. My thought on using a 1 1/2 size trap for trapping fox is what if a coyote comes along and takes it apart and you lose a catch. Had a coyote in a 1 1/2 montgomery a couple years ago that was close to having the jaws popped.

Steve if your going to be north this weekend you could pop in to F&T and catch Mark June on Saturday. You could learn alot more from him than my humble self. You could also get what you need when your there.

Griff


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## FREEPOP

Then you need to wax your traps too Steve. Dyeing new traps is an effort in futility and more effort than what is gained.

On a less expensive route you could get a good 1 3/4 or #2 trap of any make or model. Traps are like any gear, you can buy Walmart or Cadillac. You could opt to make stakes, either rebar or conduit type for virtually nothing. You may want to add some urine (red fox) and one other lure for a change up. From what I understand greys are pretty agressive and not too timid about working a set. The only difficulty is getting the to work the trap side of the set, so pay attention to wind and have a good backing with the trap up fairly tight to it. Greys also tend to stick to cover for the most part. Where you got the picture of the grey would be a good place to start and any likely travel routes through there. The tracks should look about like a house cat except there will be nail marks in the softer areas.


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## Mister ED

griffondog said:


> Had a coyote in a 1 1/2 montgomery a couple years ago that was close to having the jaws popped.


 What did you expect from one of those rusty ole things???:lol::lol:


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## FREEPOP

Even if you did buy the MBs, you can get good money out of them if you end up wanting to sell.


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## HunterHawk

dont forget trap tags 

It is a blast to get into trapping, as you can tell there are many different opinions and options to go with, good luck and have fun with it, and don't be disappointed if you dont catch him the first few days or weeks keep at it and you will get him, I am learning more and more each year. good luck... keep the trap closer to the hole so you dont get hind foot catches.


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## FREEPOP

Yep tags too. You can make them out of aluminum, beer cans  and indent with a ball point pen, your driver's license number.


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## Steve

FREEPOP said:


> Then you need to wax your traps too Steve. Dyeing new traps is an effort in futility and more effort than what is gained.
> 
> On a less expensive route you could get a good 1 3/4 or #2 trap of any make or model. Traps are like any gear, you can buy Walmart or Cadillac. You could opt to make stakes, either rebar or conduit type for virtually nothing. You may want to add some urine (red fox) and one other lure for a change up. From what I understand greys are pretty agressive and not too timid about working a set. The only difficulty is getting the to work the trap side of the set, so pay attention to wind and have a good backing with the trap up fairly tight to it. Greys also tend to stick to cover for the most part. Where you got the picture of the grey would be a good place to start and any likely travel routes through there. The tracks should look about like a house cat except there will be nail marks in the softer areas.


What does dyeing new traps mean? I waxing new traps neccessary?


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## FREEPOP

Steve, dye puts color on the traps and imparts some rust resistance, about like black oxide in socket head cap screws. It won't stick to clean metal, it needs the surface to be etched to adheare (sp?)

Wax will speed up the traps (as it's a lubricant), make them virtually water-proof and reduce the scent. A canine can smell rust through the dirt.

If you weren't so far away, I'd let you use a couple traps that were all set up and show you the basics of making a set and bedding a trap.

All the basics are spelled out here quite well:

http://www.traps4kids.com/


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## Steve

Wow, got my trapping supplies that I ordered from Fur Harvester's Trading post lickedy split!

Bought the MB-450-FH trap. Also picked up some heavy rubber gloves. I'm still full of questions.... The rubber gloves almost seem like they might smell more than my hands. I also can't see how I could set the trap just using two hands (especially with those heavy rubber gloves on). I almost have to use both hands and my knee to get the jaws of the trap going in opposite directions to set the trap. Would I be better off with some surgical gloves that fit my hands tighter? 

I read the tutorial on this site on a dirt hole set. What do you guys recommend for depth of the hole on that? Do I have to buy a special trapping trowel or can I get by with one from Home Depot? Should I boil the trowel at the same time as everything else? Also is there something at HD that I can use as stake material that is cheap? How deep do the stakes have to be? Won't I have to use a scent free hammer too?

In the tutorial on this website it mentions crumpled wax paper on top of the set. What does this do? Wouldn't the animal hear the wax paper crickling under it's feet? How would you crumple up and then flatten the waxed paper without getting your scent all over that?


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## wild bill

Steve said:


> In the tutorial on this website it mentions crumpled wax paper on top of the set. What does this do? Wouldn't the animal hear the wax paper crickling under it's feet? How would you crumple up and then flatten the waxed paper without getting your scent all over that?


steve, the waxed paper is used to keep dirt from getting under the trap pan and stopping it from firing. i use regular old polyfill and put it under my trap pan instead. if you have the time you can come on over and get a crash corse in trapping and make sure your traps are adjusted and set up right. you been here before so you know how far away i am.


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## u.p.trapper

You dont really need the rubber gloves,I use brown jersey gloves.With the mb traps the pan throw is so short when the trap is set you really dont need the wax paper.Use the corner of your foot to hold the left lever down and your right hand to open the right lever.Then use your left hand to set the dog to the pan.


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## David G Duncan

Steve,

You definitely purchased the Cadillac of traps in the MB-450-FH trap. I picked up a dozen of these traps at the convention this summer and plan to use them on both fox and coyote. I am sure that you will be very satisfied with their performance.

Now to answer all your questions. 

It is clear that you might be taking the scent control requirements to an extreme. I know that there are a lot of schools of thought on this issue, but trust me and my fifty years of trapping fox and coyote, that if you follow the basics related to keeping your traps and equipment clear, you will not have a problem catching your fox.



> The rubber gloves almost seem like they might smell more than my hands. I also can't see how I could set the trap just using two hands (especially with those heavy rubber gloves on). I almost have to use both hands and my knee to get the jaws of the trap going in opposite directions to set the trap. Would I be better off with some surgical gloves that fit my hands tighter?


You need to practice setting your MB-450's with your bare hands, until you are comfortable doing it every time. Yes, you use both hands and your knee to set the trap.

When I set the trap in the field I am wear clean canvas or cotton gloves and a pair of clean hip boots. Always handle your clean traps wearing your clean gloves and have your hip boots pulled up, so you came rest the trap on the rubber hip boot material above your knee to set the trap.


*Trap Preparation:*

Your new traps have manufacturing oil on them, which needs to be removed. I like to soak them in straight vinegar to cut this oil and then place them out in the grass for a couple of days to allow them to develop a light coating of rust, before doing my dyeing and waxing process. The traps will take a much better dye job if they have this very light coating of rust.

Be aware that you might want to use a small file to remove the wax from the end of the trap dog, where it comes in contact with the underside of the pan. Otherwise you will likely get some misfires of the traps due to the wax.

It is also a good idea to scrape the wax off the small area on the underside of the pan where the dog rests, as an added precaution against misfires. These small bare metal spots will develop a small amount of rust when they are in the ground, but this is definitely not a problem.




> I read the tutorial on this site on a dirt hole set. What do you guys recommend for depth of the hole on that?


For fox I like a smaller diameter hole ( not more than 2 inches in diameter) dug at about a 45 deg angle to a depth of 6 to 8 inches.



> Do I have to buy a special trapping trowel or can I get by with one from Home Depot?


I use a good sturdy gardening trowel that I bent using a pair of vise grips to get about a 2" diameter hole. 



> Should I boil the trowel at the same time as everything else?


Yes, I boil and dye my trowel, hand axe and sifter at the same time that I dye my traps. If you are using a plastic bucket to carry your traps and equipment, obviously you need to make sure that it is odor free, as well.

Don't put anything inside the plastic bucket that will contaminate your traps and equipment. So a lure carrying pouch attached to the outside of the bucket is a must. Use your imagination to make and attach a pouch or purchase a ready made one.



> Also is there something at HD that I can use as stake material that is cheap?


I assume that you have your "Double Stake Swivels", right? Personally I have only used rerod stakes for this application. Proper stakes and staking is very very critical to being a happy trapper. Going to all the effort to catch your target animal and then have it pull your anchor is the worst thing that could happen to you, as a trapper. So don't cut corners in this area. Please!

You should be able to pick up some rerod stakes at Gander Mountain, at least I believe they have a small trapping equipment area in most of the stores that I have visited.




> How deep do the stakes have to be?


I am not sure what you are asking. But two 18" stakes cross driven into ground (even pure sand) use a "Double Stake Swivel" will hold any animal that your trap will hold.

Dig your trap bed deep enough so that once the stakes are driven and cover with dirt, the trap can rest solidly on the packed dirt over the stakes.

Making practice sets is about the only way you will be able to work out the exact details of how deep to dig your trap bed. But it does not take more than an inch or so deeper than where you want the bottom of the trap to rest, taking into account that you will be sifting about 1/2 inch of dirt over the trap pan.

I like to dig the trap bed only to the depth that I want my trap to rest and them dig out a depression in the center for the Double Stake Swivel. Once you drive the stakes they will be nicely out of the way and you can pack the down solid for you trap to rest on.

Having the trap resting on solid dirt without any possibility of it tipping is critical to making a good catch! 



> Won't I have to use a scent free hammer too?


Boil all the equipment that you will be carrying inside the bucket with your traps.




> In the tutorial on this website it mentions crumpled wax paper on top of the set. What does this do? Wouldn't the animal hear the wax paper crickling under it's feet?


Personally I like wax paper for my trap covering. I don't like putting anything under the trap pan, except air! It also will help to keep your trap working after some heavy rain storms, because the dirt won't wash under the pan.

As you bed your trap have the free jaw raised straight up, so you can carefully pack dirt around the trap and just up next to the pan. Not allowing any dirt to go under the pan. Use only sifted dirt for this process, so you don't accidentally have a pebble lodge under the pan.

Then tear off a piece of wax paper from a roll that you have cut to a length that will allow it to fit between the jaws. All the time wearing your gloves.

Wad the piece of wax paper up in your gloved hands and then straight it out, before placing it over the trap pan. Wadding the wax paper up will eliminate the possibility of the wax paper making any noise.

Once the wax paper is positioned, lower the free jaw, so it rests on top of the wax paper and check to make sure that the trap is still solidly bedded.



> How would you crumple up and then flatten the waxed paper without getting your scent all over that?


Keep the pre-cut to size roll of wax paper inside your trapping bucket along with your clean trapping equipment and only handle it while wear clean gloves.

I know that this all seems like a lot to master, but trust me, it will all come together with some practice. I bet I would fail miserably the first few times I tried to place a proper dry fly just above a feeding Brown Trout, while standing in the middle of a pitch dark stream. 

I am confident that you will have some great fun and excitement on your trapline, especially on the morning that you come face to face with that Grey Fox dancing around your dirt hole set.

Keep us posted on your process and I hope this was of some help toward moving you along your leaning curve.


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## FREEPOP

Steve, I don't have those Cadillac traps so I can't elaborate on them.

Re-rod stakes are heavy and cumbersome to carry. I really like the Pogo anchors, they hold well and are light. Another benfit with the pogo is you can use the drvier to make your dirt hole in softer soils especially sand. 

Practice getting that trap rock solid, so if the fox steps on a jaw or lever it won't rock or tip. If it does, you'll have a dug up and/or flipped trap on your next check.

I just got a trowel from TSC, it looks alot like a yo-ho trowel.

With grey fox, I think scent is less of an issue than a yote or even a red. 

I'll get you some links


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## FREEPOP

Pogo anchor video, I think this'll impress you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0OHuKUVgYQ



This is the trowel I have right now, I may get a more heavy duty one in the future but it works good and in sand, I think it'll serve you fine.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay_10551_10001_98990_-1______?rFlag=true&cFlag=1


As far as descenting your trapping equipment, I use my no-scent soap that I use for hunting. You can wash your cloth gloves in this also. For the trowel you can use baking soda and water to soak/boil your trowel etc. I read in one of the more famous trapper's books that he routinely stopped by creeks and rubbed his tools and equipment in the dirt and then rined them off. 

Take Wild Bill up on the offer, seeing things first hand is alot different and detailed than watching videos and explaining it. Everyone has tricks that are difficult to see and/or explain. You can learn more in a couple hours than you can in a couple of years. Oh, and while you're there just steal some of his pogo anchors and you'll only need to buy the driver

You're headed into an addicting sport and you will learn a new respect for all the work somone that traps, does.


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## Steve

I've read about some people using poly windown screen over the trap instead of waxed paper. Anybody here every try it?


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## Mister ED

David G Duncan said:


> ... I know that this all seems like a lot to master, but trust me, it will all come together with some practice. *I bet I would fail miserably the first few times I tried to place a proper dry fly just above a feeding Brown Trout, while standing in the middle of a pitch dark stream.*
> 
> I am confident that you will have some great fun and excitement on your trapline, especially on the morning that you come face to face with that Grey Fox dancing around your dirt hole set.


Well, Dave just used a similar analogy to what I was gonna use. I would add to that ... while fishing for that same Brown, Steve will use a Fly Rod & a Dry, I might use a little Mepps & a spinning rod, Dave will probably use some natural bait, and Griff would undoubtedly try to catch it with his hands(or teeth).:lol: Point is, just like in all aspects of fishing, different strokes for different folks. Pick a 'system' and go forward, then with a little experience change around and find what works best for you.

Some people use waxed paper (crumpled), some use screens, some use polufill. Some use gloves, some don't. Some use waders, a kneeling cloth, etc ... some don't. It all works, you just need to find what works best for you.

Best thing you could do is to hook up with Bill or Griff. Just a few hours would help your learning curve greatly.


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## Steve

Well I put my new trap though some vinegar last night and hosed it off and left it out in the grass to rust, before I boil and wax it. Seems that there is a missing link, between the swivel at the end of the chain connected to the trap and the double stake swivel plate. What does one use to make the terminal connection?

I'm still undecided if I want to use some plastic screen material or waxed paper on top of the pan. This is getting fun just thinking about it.


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## wild bill

steve, you use a j-hook to attach the chain to the plate. also if the chain doesnt have a mid chain swivel you should add one or even two.


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## Steve

Yeah I found the J-hook that would attach the chain to the plate. Seems like you'd have to use some pliers to close the hook so the chain wouldn't pop out of the j-hook.


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## David G Duncan

Steve,

Your traps should have a box swivel at the end of each chain.

There will be an unused hole in the end of this box swivel, which the J-Hook can be thread through to attach the Double Stake Swivel.

First feed the J-Hook through the hole in the Double Stake Swivel. Make sure you feed J-Hook through from the bottom of the J-Hook, so the ears that accept the stakes are facing down.

Then you can thread the J-Hook through the hole in the box swivel and close it using a pair of vise grips.

At least this is the way I attach my Double Stake Swivels.

As far as a pan cover, I would still suggest that you try wax paper first, before you go to the more exotic covers like screen or even the use of polyfil fiber under the pan. It is just much easier and a lot simpler to use wax paper, IMO.


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## FREEPOP

Here's the gloves I ended up using. I found rubber to make my hands sweat and I believe these to be a good comprimise.











I know many people use the wax paper and are really successful with it. I tried it for a while and then tried the polyfill and I decided I like the polyfill better. The reason being is when I bed my traps I find it easier to locate my pan and get the dirt firm inside/on the jaws without getting pinched fingers or a face full of dirt. try them both and see what you like as I feel that it's more a personal preference thing.

Oh, one more thing. Contrary to what many trappers will tell you, using your feet to set the traps does not make you less manly and may save you a few finger pinchesne_eye:


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## Steve

Well I just dyed and waxed my trap and put it in a zip lock bag. I also put some 3 x 3 patches of very crumpled up wax paper in the zip lock bag. I crumpled up the waxed paper with surgical gloves on. Now does the wax paper lay over the jaws and pan or just the pan itself? 

Now let's say I get real lucky and get something. Chances are it will be a ****. Then what do I do  I've never skinned anything.

My wife had a bulb planter laying around that she wasn't using. Seemed like the perfect thing to use to start a hole set. What do you guys think?


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## muskrat

Steve, how about taping your 1st set for all us newbies, would be pretty cool. Show us your set if you dont mind. I know there are plenty of them out there even in a thread. Just think it would be pretty cool to see one of our own members doing it. Suggestions would be great afterwards. If I can next week I am going to try to do this just with muskrats, get some real life experience out there.
Thanks
Matt


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## Brian S

Steve,

If you get the fox, or even a ****, I'd suggest bringing it home and getting one of the local trappers around here to show you first-hand how to do it. These guys are great and would be happy to do it. I'd show ya, but I've never skinned a fox. Get your first one done right, get it tanned at Moyles and hang it at the cabin. All of my firsts are hanging on the wall and I really enjoy looking at them.

For the hole, I guess a bulb planter would work. I'm going to give this fox/coyote trapping a try and planned on using a small section of pipe to make the hole.


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## David G Duncan

Steve,

In regard to how to position the wax paper pan covering.

I like the wax paper to fit inside the jaws on three sides and then under the free jaw on the fourth side.

This is easily to accomplished by having the free jaw lifted straight up during the trap bedding process.

Then once you have the dirt packed solidly around the trap, even up fairly close to the pan on the free jaw side of the trap, you can place the wax paper over the pan so it extends out pass where the lowered free jaw will rest in the dirt. Lower the free jaw onto the wax paper. This will help to keep the wax paper in place while you sift the dirt over the trap.

A .22 rifle is a good dispatching device for putting down **** or other target catches. But the use of some type of live release method for domestic cats and dogs also needs to be handy.

Good luck with your first adventure into trapping.

If you happen to get a skunk, things can get a little tricky, but always remember to stay on the upwind side.  No one said trapping was easy, but it definitely is exciting.


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## FREEPOP

Here's some good vids


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEnu1-6K-Vc Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYk82mppvac Part 2


Here lots of info 

http://www.trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/9/1/Land_Trapping_Archive
_______________________


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## Steve

Ok, I cramming for my final exam. I leave on Friday. Have read and re-read this thread, watched all the you-tube video and read the fox trapping 101 archive here. Two more questions then I'll quit. 

1. How far from the hole should the trap be for a fox? Should the trap me directly in front of the hole or offset a bit?

2. What orientation should the trap be placed. Should the jaws when shut be pointing right to the hole? I saw in the Fox Trapping 101 archive here something about the dog in the 2 o clock position, which I'm not sure I'm clear on.


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## wild bill

steve, there really is no set distance or trap direction. each one of us has our own method to our madness and we can come up with the reasoning for it.:lol: me personally i like the trap 6-8 inches away from the lip of the hole for fox. i offset it slightly to the right most of the time. if its offset to the right my trap dog is at 2 o'clock and left offset its at 11 o'clock. by this i mean when you are standing over the trap and the hole is directly behind it the trap dog will be at the 2 or 11 position if it where a clock. hope this helps.


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