# Asian Carp Feeding



## walranger5 (May 1, 2005)

Asian carp acording to D. Chapman expert are the most efficient filter feeders in the world. What will they do in lake Michigan? Feed very efficiently of course. Chapman also says he thinks Asian Carp by number the dominate large fresh water fish in the U.S. I think he's right, so just plugging one hole in Chicago seems Band-aidish to me. And in an E-mail to me, Chapman states Asian Carp eggs do not die from just falling to the bottom, some hatched in a Ziplock bag bottom sample sitting on a shelf. Asian Carp can feed on Zooplankton down to micron level, where there the only ones that can benefit from it. They also eat larval fish, any fish with an air bladder, has to swim up to get a bubble of air, right into thousands of filter feeding Asian Carp. E-mail from Chinese expert confirms, Chapman thinks so, but of course wants a study. Spiny fleas are zooplankton native to China, we have lots. They can switch back and forth from phytoplankton algae, to animal zooplankton as needed. Asian Carp have been studied for 2000 year by the Chinese, we will pay a $million bucks a year to study what they might eat in Lake Michigan? Probably the same thing they eat on the south side of the barrier. The experts say juvenile Asian Carp are very bad at avoiding predators, we have several for that. None of them happen to be a trout or Salmon, there's nothing you, I, the DNR or anyone can do about that. I do not wish to argue with anyone, anyone who believes Asian Carp wont survive is in for a big surprise. A surprise we don't need. Predator/Prey is Natures way of balance, always has been, always will be. What mistakes were made in the past, is past, this is the situation we have now, waiting to see what the Asian Carp do is a bad idea. A healthy native fish population or a carp pond? Why does this question need to be asked?


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## Fabner1 (Jan 24, 2009)

Wal,

Good Info!

Fred


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

The question at hand is asked because of us. The original invasive specie. What native species are you refering to ?....


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## walranger5 (May 1, 2005)

METTLEFISH said:


> The question at hand is asked because of us. The original invasive specie. What native species are you refering to ?....


 Look at what the invasives do, how do they affect native fish most? Hog food/eat larval/small fish IE don't let em get in the game.
Perch will eat, eggs, larvae, fry minnows depending on size Perch can feed on Asian Carp most of their first year. Then it's just sufficient numbers. Walleye, Pike Muskie will wait until they get bigger, catch what the Perch miss again it's numbers. Asian Carp are soft finned prey, there is no reason native fish wont eat them, they'll will prefer them in season, spawn/hatch etc.. Like what the invasive white perch, alewives, gobies Ruffe are doing. They can't attack adults, yet they control the populations? They feed and take out their predators and competitors at the same time. Asian Carp same thing. Control recruitment (spawn to adult) control the fish population. Seems to be working out for the invasives, why can't our native fish wipe them out back? There is no reason they can't, we just need to get them in the game. A high Perch population would give us a 4 mile deep "living Barrier" (out to 90 feet) against ALL invasive species and are natural prey for the rest of the large predators we have, you know, like nature planned!


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

I understand the issue of the Carp, I also know they can not be stopped. Barriers will not do the job, tornadoes, waterfowl, floods, boat trailers and the like will get them into the lakes, the biology of the situation remains to be seen. They have to void what they consume, perhaps they may improve fertility. Over the years I've heard so much gloom and doom in simular situations that never evolved as predicted, only time will tell the story.


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## walranger5 (May 1, 2005)

METTLEFISH said:


> I understand the issue of the Carp, I also know they can not be stopped. Barriers will not do the job, tornadoes, waterfowl, floods, boat trailers and the like will get them into the lakes, the biology of the situation remains to be seen. They have to void what they consume, perhaps they may improve fertility. Over the years I've heard so much gloom and doom in simular situations that never evolved as predicted, only time will tell the story.


 The Asian Carp were supposed to be "contained" in the catfish ponds, they got out 3 times. If you dumped a thousand truck loads into the Chicago river tommorow, are we to feel safe forever hiding behind a fence? Whatever we do has to last forever, only nature can do that. True separation of fish communities is the fish populations themselves. Currently Lake Michigan is managed as a salt water fishery, which can only occur if the freshwater native fishery is weak. Google (Common carp control using native predators) then google ( alewives prey on perch and walleye larvae) you will see both the cure and the problem. Base principles apply. Dr. Peter Sorenson prefers bluegill, and Crappie to prey on baby carp. Perch fit this bill better, with help from us, (lower limits, closed during spawn) and stocking, they can meet and exceed the carps ability to spawn 3 or more times a year. One Perch could eat thousands of baby Asian Carp, we don't have any fish that can eat 20 pound asian carp, so the choice is clear. Except it seems to the DNR.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Theories will not stop them iether, remember the Alewive was going to decimate the lakes too, so were the Lamprey Etc. Etc. . I have not heard that the Gr, Lakes are harboring huge populations of Bluegill or Crappie though I believe the Mississippi does. Are the lakes not managed as a landlocked situation ?... seems difficult to manage for salt when it's fresh ! The Chicago River is not the only way for them to reach the lakes, there is link via the river system , St. Joe to the Ohio, to the Maumee (I may be wrong with the links, but I did see on the news a house bill set forth to stop them at that point / method of entry) The Govt. knew the Grass Carp had escaped & did not link the situation, nor when there was a chance to stop them did they. Til there's no more Steelhead... I'll keep enjoying them !


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## walranger5 (May 1, 2005)

METTLEFISH said:


> Theories will not stop them iether, remember the Alewive was going to decimate the lakes too, so were the Lamprey Etc. Etc. . I have not heard that the Gr, Lakes are harboring huge populations of Bluegill or Crappie though I believe the Mississippi does. Are the lakes not managed as a landlocked situation ?... seems difficult to manage for salt when it's fresh ! The Chicago River is not the only way for them to reach the lakes, there is link via the river system , St. Joe to the Ohio, to the Maumee (I may be wrong with the links, but I did see on the news a house bill set forth to stop them at that point / method of entry) The Govt. knew the Grass Carp had escaped & did not link the situation, nor when there was a chance to stop them did they. Til there's no more Steelhead... I'll keep enjoying them !


 It is not a theory, it's natures way. The mississippi basin dominate fish WAS common carp, no predator cousin from China. Bass were wiped out first, they keep bass down there, same for bluegill etc.. Catfish are good predators but they have heavy commercial fishing still, billions of Asian carp and taking out their No. 1 predator. Lake Michigan is managed to protect the alewives a salt water invasive fish, that also eats zooplankton and native larval fish. Salmon can't survive without them, so we have to sacrifice the entire natural ecosystem to protect the alewives, as Perch and Walleyes eat alewives. The fishery commission wants 8 billion alewives, if we had 8 billion Perch perch, we wouldn't have an invasive species problem, you wouldn't have problem selling fishing license, you wouldn't have any problem getting kids into fishing, you wouldn't be able to stop people from coming here to catch the perch (tourism), but you wouldn't have any alewives either! They know that. We have invasive species that are dying of old age, and Native fish that aren't living long enough to learn how to swim! Because of the invasive species including the alewives, main problem for now. Asian Carp feed like both alewives and zebra mussels, they will control the spawning/nursery areas year round, not just show up when native fish hatch like the alewives do now. The DNR calls it bad timing, they don't belong here at all period. We have an invasive species problem, and the best plan the DNR has is to save the alewives? I don't need a PHD to know when i'm being lied to. Native fish or alewives? can't have both. Now it's asian Carp or native fish? Using predators is standard issue to control invasive species, they planted Salmon predators to control alewives, but according to the DNR it won't work in Lake Michigan for the other 180 some invasive species the salmon won't eat! We have predators for all the invasives, but they work for free, that's also part of the problem. The first invasive as you say is the problem!


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

North America has no Indiginous Carp. What was the Perch population during the 50's & 60's ?... why didn't the Perch keep the Alewives in check then. There are plenty of fishing opportunities for kids, just no one to take them, no one has time to take them IF they could get them away from the video games, internet, Etc. . Other than the economic issues that come along with fewer licenses & gear sold, I don't mind fewer people fishing for fewer and fewer fish. Only time will tell us what we do not know, I hope our concerns do not become reality.

I too have to scratch my head when I see how our Indiginous species are regulated, there were seasons and size limits on panfish, we need to give them protection again, I live in an area that has the highest density of lakes and rivers in Michigan, where there used to be a great panfish fishery... no longer, people get on them while on their beds and pay no attention to the limit, summons a C.O. ....better chance of winning the lottery, talk to the Biologists.... they say there is a diference between fishing, and quality fishing opportunity's, I don't get it !


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## walranger5 (May 1, 2005)

METTLEFISH said:


> North America has no Indiginous Carp. What was the Perch population during the 50's & 60's ?... why didn't the Perch keep the Alewives in check then. There are plenty of fishing opportunities for kids, just no one to take them, no one has time to take them IF they could get them away from the video games, internet, Etc. . Other than the economic issues that come along with fewer licenses & gear sold, I don't mind fewer people fishing for fewer and fewer fish. Only time will tell us what we do not know, I hope our concerns do not become reality.
> 
> I too have to scratch my head when I see how our Indiginous species are regulated, there were seasons and size limits on panfish, we need to give them protection again, I live in an area that has the highest density of lakes and rivers in Michigan, where there used to be a great panfish fishery... no longer, people get on them while on their beds and pay no attention to the limit, summons a C.O. ....better chance of winning the lottery, talk to the Biologists.... they say there is a diference between fishing, and quality fishing opportunity's, I don't get it !


 The Perch were overfished commercially just like the lake trout, the alewives hit in the 50's 1962 no limit on Perch add overfishing, no recruitment (surviving spawn thanks to alewives) poof no Perch walleyes same thing. Look at the whole picture. We can't teach Perch not to eat alewives, (wouldn't if I could) The DNR can't teach Salmon to survive in warmwater. Natures laws. Soreson is trying to get rid a Common carp nation wide, planting predators after removal is key to controlling the population. The DNR planted Walleyes in saginaw bay to get rid of the alewives, whole point of the Saginaw bay recovery Plan, read it for yourself. Letting people catch 50 Perch per day, open during spawn that keeps their numbers down real good, look at the results. Close during spawn, slot limits on Walleyes and pike works everywhere else in the world, but according to the DNR it wont work here? No science based, just because they said so. They have to lie about the alewives, if they want to keep the salmon. Cut the limit on Perch to 10 i'll settle on 15 but i'd prefer 10. Walleyes only one over 23 inches, i'll catch and release 5 pound walleyes all day long, dumb luck to catch one now. Perch limit on the Chicago pier is 5 and they have a hard time doing that. I don't care what excuse the DNR uses everything goes back to protecting the alewives. You can catch 10 pounds of gobies an hour if you want, perch and walleye eat gobies. Catch 10 pounds of perch an hour, taking kids is easy, because dad wants to go. Half a million people quit fishin in the last 25 years, because fishin sucked. 1985 is when they started managing the lake for alewives, and also when the invasives started exploding, because they could. Look at the facts, the fish are telling us everything we need to know. Can't save the Great Lakes and the Alewives at the same time, and that's a fact.


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