# Idiots at Yates



## gmmerlin (Oct 31, 2010)

Not what you think! I have meet a lot of friendly and respectful anglers at Yates, but let me tell you about last night.
My buddy and I find a spot to fish yesterday afternoon at what I would consider a reasonable distance from the other anglers and start fishing.
We are there a couple hours and I finally hook into a steelie , I am trying to finesse him out of his hole when 2 jackwagons (about 16 years old) come walking up and cast right next to me. 
One cast under my line and the other casts over my line :yikes:. After a few heated words from me and some blank stares from them (especailly when I threatened to cut their line!), they finally move on to bother someone else.
A couple minutes later I loose my steelie:sad: 
Sorry, I just had to vent


----------



## AaronW (Mar 17, 2011)

How busy was Yates? I'm planning on going out today with my son after school. What happened to you is what I'd like to avoid. Can't fix stupid ya know!


----------



## The Downstream Drift (Feb 27, 2010)

This is the bad part about the Clinton's steelhead run gaining popularity. There are alot of anglers (some experienced, some not) that are heading down there now. Most of the guys that are there often will take the time to help out a new guy and show him how to not cause this sort of issue. But, as with anything, there are going to be guys down there that simply do not care that someone is fishing next to them. It happens every year and at least once a year someone gets pushed in the river.

I have an idea that may help things but I would like some input from you guys. What would you guys think about a sign put up on the board in the park that mentions issues like this, reminds guys not to leave fishing line all over, and helps to identify fish? Obviously we wouldn't want the sign to be preachy but simple information might help.

I have kicked this idea around for awhile but it hasn't went anywhere. I'm sure the park would put up a good informational sign like this if we asked properly.

What do you guys think about this? I'll read your responses later tonight as I'm headed to the river right now.


----------



## Maverick1 (Jan 28, 2009)

I'm all for it. Gotta remember allot of anglers down there won't be able to read it (English 2nd language) but it would certainly be good for the novice. Species ID and perhaps an area where we could change out and post the yearly regs as the relate to Clinton. 

Sorry to hear about your fish. I think as a whole the popularity gain is great, however individually it can be a pain. On the bright side all this attention should get the DNR over here a little more. Not going to help with those who choose to be ignorant , but I just keep reminding myself that they ate probably first timers who are all amped up that they saw a fish and don't know any better. Try to help first, remind them the second time, hope they know how to swim after that.

Great idea Jay.


----------



## sport72186 (Dec 20, 2007)

The Downstream Drift said:


> I have an idea that may help things but I would like some input from you guys. What would you guys think about a sign put up on the board in the park that mentions issues like this, reminds guys not to leave fishing line all over, and helps to identify fish? Obviously we wouldn't want the sign to be preachy but simple information might help.


A sign on river etiquette and fish ID sounds like a great idea to me. Just wonder how many people would read it? It couldn't hurt to give it a shot..


----------



## Burksee (Jan 15, 2003)

The Downstream Drift said:


> ....What do you guys think about this? I'll read your responses later tonight as I'm headed to the river right now.


I think you've got some great ideas, but I also think you&#8217;re preaching to the choir. Putting up signs will only alert and educate the ones that care to be but may add to the intimidation of those who don&#8217;t care. More than likely those signs would just end up vandalized or as trash in or near the river. I see most of your ideas are already practiced by the "true sportsman" fisherman who are already courteous and use common sense. What gmmerlin experienced is not isolated to the Clinton and is more common than you can imagine on many other "popular" stretches of rivers all over this great state.


----------



## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

"jackwagons about 16"

I don't know many 16 year olds that know all the rules of fishing etiquette. A lot of us don't even know any 16 year olds that fish. 

Fact is, not many 16 year olds even care about fishing any more. I would have been glad to see them.

And when it became apparent that they didn't know any of the rules, I would have politely explained them to them...and ONLY if the kids got defiant would I have gotten angry. 

I hope they keep fishing, and don't let a bad experience at Yates ruin their aspirations to get involved in the outdoors. 

It goes two ways, guys.


----------



## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

Linda G. said:


> "jackwagons about 16"
> 
> I don't know many 16 year olds that know all the rules of fishing etiquette. A lot of us don't even know any 16 year olds that fish.
> 
> ...


Pretty much my first thoughts on the issue.


----------



## fisheater (Nov 14, 2010)

I would have been at the end of my rope fishing the same hole for two hours. Then when you get a fish on they move in:help:, but they were sixteen and they just didn't get it. I'm more than three times sixteen and barely have patience for Clinton River steelheading. Better luck next time, and I hope someone else that saw what happened explained things to the young men.


----------



## localyahoo (May 28, 2009)

I don't think age has anything to do with it. I've been going there since I was sixteen And even I could figure out that the water flowed one way, so you would always let the guy downstream drift first (if it was a hole that could be shared). Its called common sense, and its not our fault if they learned their fishing etiqutte from a Wii system. I am almost always willing to help a kid out if he shows an interest in the sport and sparks a conversation about what I am using for bait or how to tie up a 3 way rig, but the ***** clowns that show up with a saltwater rig with 150 lb test spider wire line and just starts casting in my hole or starts to sucker fish where I am clearly drift fishing is inexcusible stupidity, and they deserve to have there line cut and yelled at. I know this goes on everywhere, but It doesn't mean I have to put up with it!


----------



## eddiebassman (Mar 23, 2009)

Before I was allowed on the golf course I had to learn proper ettiquette. The same should hold true for fishing. Our generation is at fault. Glad I lived in the day when individuals took the time and set by example.Think about that the next time your out casting. The future ain`t pretty.


----------



## gmmerlin (Oct 31, 2010)

Like I said, I have had the pleasure of meeting some friendly and respectful (AKA: true sportsmen) at Yates and other places I fish.
Its all about common courtesy and common sense. Something that is lacking in todays society.
Would a sign explaining the etiquette of fishing and to pick up after yourself work? I dont know. Personally I think the people who read it would be the ones who already know how to conduct themselves in situations like this.
Like Burksee said, this doesnt only happen at the Clinton. Have you ever fished Stoney Creek? That place gets trashed! 
Its a public park and is there for everyone to enjoy. If you want to fish, show up and find a spot, but when you are looking for that spot, the criteria should be: would I get pissed off if someone was that close to me? If you have to think about it, move elsewhere, or make plans to come back earlier the next time. Several times I have driven past Yates and never slowed down because there were, what I consider to be, too many people there.
And Linda, I was polite to them at first (which I failed to mention in my original post) and explained to them that they were a little to close ( and if you knew the spot I was fishing, Im sure you would have agreed)all I got was that 16 yr old half open mouth with their tongue curled against their bottom teeth blank stare (you all know the one)..They were upstream of me and they cast downstream on top of me anyway.
Its common sense people

Im going fishingthe early worm gets the fishand the prime spot :lol:


----------



## Pyranha (Apr 6, 2010)

AaronW said:


> How busy was Yates? I'm planning on going out today with my son after school.


When I drove by earlier in the day - saturday, the parking lot was full and cars were in the overflow parking at the end of Avon, but it looked like everyone was fairly well spread out.

@ Ryan Rd: I don't think I've ever seen as many people fishing there, looked like at least a dozen cars.




Linda G. said:


> I don't know many 16 year olds that know all the rules of fishing etiquette. A lot of us don't even know any 16 year olds that fish.
> 
> Fact is, not many 16 year olds even care about fishing any more. I would have been glad to see them.
> 
> ...


+1



localyahoo said:


> ...Its called common sense, and its not our fault if they learned their fishing etiqutte from a Wii system.
> 
> ...and just starts casting in my hole or starts to sucker fish where I am clearly drift fishing is inexcusible stupidity, and they deserve to have there line cut and yelled at. I know this goes on everywhere, but It doesn't mean I have to put up with it!


Regardless of whether you like it or not, the future generation of outdoor sportsmen will have quite an affect on you. Heck, I don't even know what drift fishing is, while I can guess what it is, I certainly wouldn't have recognized it the first time I saw it or expect a couple of 16 year old new fisherman. Acting like an internet tough guy, doesn't impress people, neither does insinuating vandalism on another persons property.


----------



## AaronW (Mar 17, 2011)

We went fishing friday afternoon, it was pretty busy but it was spread out, we waited a bit then got a decent spot below the rapids after the dam. It sure didn't look like anything was biting though. Then I caught a tree and my kid started to get "bored" as I fumbled along re-tying the line. So no bites, a lost lure, but I still had fun and my son said he still wants to go out again, so all good!


----------



## localyahoo (May 28, 2009)

Acting like an internet tough guy, doesn't impress people, neither does insinuating vandalism on another persons property.[/QUOTE]


I am not trying to act like an internet tough guy. If you throw your line in my drift when I have been there and you tangle my line(in which case you are now vandalizing my property), then guess what you get your line cut. I am not going to walk up to you and just cut your line. But when these IDIOTS plop a 3 oz pyramid sinker in the hole I have been fishing and you can clearly see that I am constantly pulling my line out and casting up river to let it drift back down into a hole, then yes thats gonna cause a problem. And why do I have to put up with retying all the time. So you're saying that I should up and leave my hole just to appease some newbie so that I don't hurt there feelings. Trust me people learn a lot faster when they are getting there line cut. Another FACT, the river bends park system is big with lots of fishable holes and runs, there is plenty of room to spread out! When I get to the place I want to fish at day break I don't plan on fishing with anyone other than my buddies. There is also plenty of room for the sucker fisherman as well. like I said before in my previous post, I do not have a problem teaching newbies the ropes, hell I have given my rods to little kids to let them bring in the biggest and only fish they've ever caught, and I have stepped a side to let a newbie fish my hole with my rod and watch them as they hook into a fish, and watch there faces when they finally know what it feels like when a steelhead bites(which took me along time to figure out). The best analogy I can come up with the reason for what I said about etiquette and fishing in my hole would be "would you go up to a farmer and ask for permission to hunt on his property, or would you wait to ask after he busted you on his property?" Its the same in my eyes. Yes, I know its not my property, but its proper etiquette. I am a nice guy, and if I am by myself I usually don't mind the company or a guy to help land a fish and help take a picture for me if I was to get one, but don't just come trompin in like I don't care, because I know you wouldn't appreciate it either.

LY


----------



## fishinthed (Nov 7, 2007)

When I was *11* I knew not to elbow in on a spot somebody else is fishing, let alone bother them when they're playing a fish.  

If they _literally_ were idiots, with a measurable IQ of under 50, I could understand it.


----------



## localyahoo (May 28, 2009)

fishinthed said:


> When I was *11* I knew not to elbow in on a spot somebody else is fishing, let alone bother them when they're playing a fish.
> 
> If they _literally_ were idiots, with a measurable IQ of under 50, I could understand it.


----------



## wintrrun (Jun 11, 2008)

Welcome to the wonderful world of Steelhead fishing.
Ahh it just warms my heart to see that the Mighty Clinton has almost graduated into A real Michigan Steelhead River.
So heres my prediction on how to tell when she'll be a steelheading mecca.
Its gonna get worse.
The Rant and Rave posts about slob fisherman who encroach on others fishing claims are going to increase.
The Boo Hooing about how there are too many people fishing that "fragile" fishery threads will start to show up.
But wait til the ............snaggers and 2 fly long leader specialists show up and start roping and playing mouth hockey with all those spawning fish.
The snagging and lining threads will be the best reads of them all.
Face the facts....
The Clinton at and below Yates Park is gonna be no different than the Huron , 6th Street, Tippy and Foote Dams and all the other usual suspects.
I am sorry to hear that two 16 yr olds crossed the line with you gmmerlin. It sucks but get used to it on any river after the 15th of March. The Clinton is too be no exception.
wint:evilsmile


----------



## The Downstream Drift (Feb 27, 2010)

Good post wintrun. You have hit it right on the head. The Clinton is getting really close to becoming one of those steelhead fisheries that everyone goes to and everyone likes to complain about. It's just a matter of time before the threads you mentioned start popping up. Such is a steelhead fishery.


----------



## jpphish (Oct 3, 2006)

There's *TONNNNSSS*!!!! of room on the Clinton. Fight with people if you want or go fish somewhere (including lots of fish) all by yourself.


----------



## Chrome steel (Apr 6, 2003)

Rocks are to prevent erosion, there for less sediment adds to healthier fish population.(spawning grounds) 

After 20 years on the Clinton I have retired it and yet to return in a couple years due to over crowding from to much publicity. And that even gets worse as there is now a tourney to add to madness. This is a fragile system in the heart of the most populated area in the state we should of been more careful. now I have abandoned my most cherished style of fishing and fish (hints my name). Well it doesn't hurt that I do own a boat so I have taken up other options to catch my fish on my own personal floating island. Its not the same but so long crowds.


----------



## fisherboy (Aug 12, 2008)

On the weekends you need to get their by 5:30 am to get a parking spot,just five years ago you could find a spot anytime.The river and parking lot was not set up for this kind of traffic.I would not be shocked if the cider mill property owner will close off his property because of liabilty reasons with the amount of people down their.I really think all the news paper reports,guide reports,and river hype is what is hurting this river.Last week their were two guys from Canada that heard all the reports of fish everywere,they drove three hours to fish here.I think they stayed 30 min. and headed to the huron, they were not use to the crowds.I know groups are trying to promote the river,but their are two guys from Canada who told me they are never going back.


----------



## The Downstream Drift (Feb 27, 2010)

Chrome steel said:


> Rocks are to prevent erosion, there for less sediment adds to healthier fish population.(spawning grounds)


Correct, rocks in do prevent erosion. But the rock clusters that Mav is talking about were positioned in such a way that they were causing altered flow that was adding sedimentation to the river. The volunteers that fixed this issue did so under the guidance of an experienced, educated river ecologist. It was repair for the health of the river and to prevent the issues that the man-made, unsupervised rock clusters would have caused.

I find it interesting though that some of the local government officials that have visited the park lately are happy about the additional use of the river. They are pleased with the economic benefits this brings to the area. 

Funny though how some of you guys think that this public resource should be your river and you shouldn't have to share it with the rest of the angling public.


----------



## The Downstream Drift (Feb 27, 2010)

fisherboy said:


> On the weekends you need to get their by 5:30 am to get a parking spot,just five years ago you could find a spot anytime.The river and parking lot was not set up for this kind of traffic.I would not be shocked if the cider mill property owner will close off his property because of liabilty reasons with the amount of people down their.I really think all the news paper reports,guide reports,and river hype is what is hurting this river.Last week their were two guys from Canada that heard all the reports of fish everywere,they drove three hours to fish here.I think they stayed 30 min. and headed to the huron, they were not use to the crowds.I know groups are trying to promote the river,but their are two guys from Canada who told me they are never going back.


I would ask the owner of the mill about the his liabilty concerns. I think you would be very surprised to hear his response.


----------



## The Downstream Drift (Feb 27, 2010)

Greenbush future said:


> After reading all this I suddenly remember why I don&#8217;t fish this backyard river down here anymore. Doesn&#8217;t sound like many of you enjoy the crowd or maybe the mix of people who like the river too? I am going to start calling it Tippyates because that&#8217;s what it&#8217;s turning into.
> Then I laughed about wasting the CO&#8217;s time and slapping up signs with your rules about your river and your spot. Not what I consider a quality fishing experience. BTW the best spots on the Clinton are no where close to Yates, ya have to walk a little but you will really enjoy if you try. Consider the river yours!


I wonder where in the mention of a sign on the river anything was brought up about CO involvement? The thought of the sign was for public education on general issues, not anything that is written is the fishing laws. There are already signs posted at Yates (by the DNR) that explain the fishing regs in which the CO's are concerned about. These are the rules that the CO's will be enforcing when they are down there. And from two visits so far this year and a conversation a couple of us had with a CO they are planning on being there alot more this year than normal.


----------



## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

With gas at almost $4 a gallon not too many people from southern Michigan are going to fire up there 15 mpg pick up trucks and drive 6 or more hours to get to the UP and fish the (semi) secluded streams we have up here. Even living in the EUP I have learned to fish in the dark to escape humanity and idiots. It is crazy and you have to be armed to some degree as we do have bears, mountain lions, and wolves. I have learned all of the tricks and can now catch more and bigger fish at night than I ever caught during the daytime. I seldom ever launch my boat during the daylight hours anymore either. I had a salmon frenzy last summer when nobody else could catch them. It sure beats the boat launch battles.


----------



## Willi_H2O (Mar 6, 2009)

Does the EPA truly protect you and the fish....
- or do people just forgive and forget too quickly ?

https://picasaweb.google.com/WilliH2O/ClintonRiverToxicSuperfundSite#5541683227620852754

Before you say all is fine and well and good - think about this :
***__many chemicals are unregulated, legal in any amount.__***

http://www.ewg.org/tap-water/MichiganDrinkingWaterQualityReport/

Your government won't protect you ----- period.


----------



## The Downstream Drift (Feb 27, 2010)

Willi_H2O said:


> Does the EPA truly protect you and the fish....
> - or do people just forgive and forget too quickly ?
> 
> https://picasaweb.google.com/WilliH2O/ClintonRiverToxicSuperfundSite#5541683227620852754
> ...


And your point here? The Clinton River is an Area of Concern. Local residents know this. 

This thread is about the increased fishing pressure on an urban fishery. Not about the contaminated sediments that still exist in parts of the watershed. Interesting though that little winter stoneflies are all over the river now, even in sections that were historically superfund dumping sites.


----------



## fisherboy (Aug 12, 2008)

The owner at Yates will do what his Attorney advises.It take one lawsuit to change the owners mind on people trespassing on his property.


----------



## Downriver Steel (Sep 15, 2005)

In terms of this guys liability, realistically speaking, it is likely that dangers presented on his property that would support some sort of claim against him probably also support the "open and obvious" defense as recognized in Michigan. Simply stated, if the injury results from a danger that a reasonable person would have recognized, landowner is not going to be found liable for injuries stemming from that danger. Needless to say this is not legal advice. But this is probably why he does not care. Still, I would not want to have to pay to litigate the open and obvious defense. Attorneys are not cheap!!!!


----------



## Fishslayer5789 (Mar 1, 2007)

Robert Holmes said:


> I saw lots of fishing wars and fights back in the day when I lived in the SELP. Guys would duke it out over a spot or a salmon, made a dull day of fishing a little more exciting. I even saw a guy get shot in the leg over on the AuSable over a salmon once. Now I live in the UP where there is alot of room to fish, just not alot of fish to catch as the DNR does not stock them in the UP.


OMG! You saw a guy get shot over a fish??? That's trailer trash to it's greatest extent! :yikes:


----------



## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

I walked around Yates, and downriver from there earlier this week. Not being a Steelhead fisherman (yet) I just wanted to see what was going on. Met a bunch of nice people, asked some questions, got some answers. I, in fact, saw no idiots at Yates.

Good luck to all those fishing the river.


----------



## localyahoo (May 28, 2009)

Neal said:


> I, in fact, saw no idiots at Yates.


Ahh, they are a clever bunch. They usually come dressed for the occasion. Sometimes you won't even know they're an idiot till they slide right on into your spot. I was just thinking, this has got to be a record for the number of posts for one thread in this sub forum. Definatly a sign that we are on the right track to a quality steelheading river.


----------



## jd_7655 (Mar 25, 2004)

I use to fish Yates a lot in the spring till one year I showed up and the parking lot was full. I hate crowds because of the idiots so I tend to stay away. 

There are other areas of the river that hold fish without a soul in sight. Go hiking you'll find fish away from people. I've found fish from the spillway to Sterling hgts. Yates isn't the only area of the river with fish you'd be surprised what you might find.


----------



## MEL (Jul 17, 2005)

'Idiots at Yates"? I dont believe it... Guess Ill just go to Flat Rock and the Huron....


----------

