# salmon jigging now you got me interested



## swaprat (Oct 1, 2011)

just got done watching a few videos never done this my self and it got me thinking. what are the exact jigs you are using in side the pier head like on pm lake manistee lake? cause i know there is that gape law has to be smaller then 1/2 inch for single pointed hooks and 3/8 for multi-pointed hooks. any ways was looking at spire point jigs and they are from 1/8 to 3/4 once so my question would be what size jig for what size hook are you using maximum? there saying size 2 to 4 /0 for the spire point jigs from 1/8 once to 3/4 once.in the video it was in Milwaukee Wisconsin and the laws there are different then here for sure...looked like there using a 5/0 hook and a 2 once jig?? if any thing could i get away with my steel head jigs cause i already got the mold for it??? 

also could you use your salmon steel stick that are 10 foot 6 inch the long ones or should i get another rod about 6-8 foot long for the boat i assume the longer rod will work out on the pier? 

line is no problem i thinking 10-20 pound power pro and about 10-15 pound fluro leader.. any ways thanks for any replies you can give....


----------



## wartfroggy (Jan 25, 2007)

swaprat said:


> cause i know there is that gape law has to be smaller then 1/2 inch for single pointed hooks and 3/8 for multi-pointed hooks.....


That is for in the river. It does not apply to the channel, harbor, or drowned river lakes such as PM, Manistee, etc. 
Alot of guys use spoons like krocs, cleos, kast masters, pimples, cripple herring, megabaits, cabelas jigging spoons, etc.


----------



## omalson (Dec 28, 2010)

P-line jigging spoons worked great last year in manistee lake. Purple and the fire tiger color schemes. 
I had a great time jigging last year. Everyone is out there having a good time nobody is arguing about spots. Everyone would cheer when someone would catch one. I will be back out there in a few months.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## swaprat (Oct 1, 2011)

wartfroggy said:


> That is for in the river. It does not apply to the channel, harbor, or drowned river lakes such as PM, Manistee, etc.
> Alot of guys use spoons like krocs, cleos, kast masters, pimples, cripple herring, megabaits, cabelas jigging spoons, etc.




thanks for the ideas just out of curiosity when you read this does it mean that the gape law is not aloud in pm lake manistee lake etc it high lighted in red below. got this from unlawful fishing methods on the e-regulations site. not try to accuse or any think just looking for clarification on how i am reading it. it would include pm lake all the way up to the edge of the water for the great lakes...for that time period right? now how it is worded is pm lake a tributary to the great lakes or lake Michigan? not trying to argue or any thing just wondering or by tributary do they mean river only ? tributary is a very broad word...by broad i mean it covers to many things like there trying to cover it all with one word... to me by definition a lake is a tributary?to me it should be more define on what there saying there if any thing. 

Use multi-pointed hooks exceeding 3/8&#8243; between point and shank and/or single-pointed hooks exceeding ½ between point and shank on all streams (including tributaries to the Great Lakes) from Aug. 1 to May 31.


----------



## wartfroggy (Jan 25, 2007)

swaprat said:


> thanks for the ideas just out of curiosity when you read this does it mean that the gape law is not aloud in pm lake manistee lake etc it high lighted in red below. got this from unlawful fishing methods on the e-regulations site. not try to accuse or any think just looking for clarification on how i am reading it.* it would include pm lake all the way up to the edge of the water for the great lakes...*for that time period right? now how it is worded is pm lake a tributary to the great lakes or lake Michigan? not trying to argue or any thing just wondering or by tributary do they mean river only ? tributary is a very broad word...by broad i mean it covers to many things like there trying to cover it all with one word... to me by definition a lake is a tributary?to me it should be more define on what there saying there if any thing.
> 
> Use multi-pointed hooks exceeding 3/8&#8243; between point and shank and/or single-pointed hooks exceeding ½ between point and shank on all streams (including tributaries to the Great Lakes) from Aug. 1 to May 31.


Look up the defined boundaries of PM River in the DNR handout. Then look at the defined boundaries of PM Lake. PM Lake is a lake.....not a tributary, not a river, not a stream, it is a lake. PM river stops at the twin bridges, and is PM Lake from the bridges out to Lake Michigan,, even though a good sized section of that is much more of a river than lake....but that is how the DNR has defined it. Because it is a lake, and not a river or tributary, it does not fall into the river regulations. Therefore, the hook regulations that you quoted do not apply.

http://www.eregulations.com/michigan/fishing/inland-trout-salmon-regulations-by-county-listing/
"Pere Marquette Lake 
from Old 31 Highway to Lake Michigan. Type F"

"Pere Marquette River 
from Reek Rd. (Indian Bridge) downstream to Old US-31. Type 3"


----------



## swaprat (Oct 1, 2011)

omalson said:


> P-line jigging spoons worked great last year in manistee lake. Purple and the fire tiger color schemes.
> I had a great time jigging last year. Everyone is out there having a good time nobody is arguing about spots. Everyone would cheer when someone would catch one. I will be back out there in a few months.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


thanks i got cleo's and some steely jigs that may work i got to go find some gulp alive too to use i see if i can find those p line jigging spoons.


----------



## swaprat (Oct 1, 2011)

wartfroggy said:


> Look up the defined boundaries of PM River in the DNR handout. Then look at the defined boundaries of PM Lake. PM Lake is a lake.....not a tributary, not a river, not a stream, it is a lake. PM river stops at the twin bridges, and is PM Lake from the bridges out to Lake Michigan,, even though a good sized section of that is much more of a river than lake....but that is how the DNR has defined it. Because it is a lake, and not a river or tributary, it does not fall into the river regulations. Therefore, the hook regulations that you quoted do not apply.
> 
> http://www.eregulations.com/michigan/fishing/inland-trout-salmon-regulations-by-county-listing/
> "Pere Marquette Lake
> ...


that is correct but what define's a tributary in the book? there is no definitions on it any ware! i just don't want to be doing it and get in trouble... your most likely right on what what but it just bugs me lol's...we all know what happens when you ass/ume your a ass if you assume is how i always knew it...


the only way i can figure is e mail the local c/o's and see how they rule on it before i just go ahead and do it. it is always the authority having jurisdiction in these cases. then at least i can show a letter saying it was alright to do in that case?


----------



## wartfroggy (Jan 25, 2007)

swaprat said:


> that is correct but what define's a tributary in the book? there is no definitions on it any ware! i just don't want to be doing it and get in trouble... your most likely right on what what but it just bugs me lol's...we all know what happens when you ass/ume your a ass if you assume is how i always knew it...


 Didn't we already beat this topic to death last year?
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406353&highlight=tributary

A tributary is a river. PM river is a tributary to Lake Michigan. PM river has a DNR, USCG, and Army Corps defined downstream boundary of the twin bridges. From the bridges down to Lake Michigan, it is PM Lake, a type F lake. If it is defined as a lake, it cannot be a river, or stream, or tributary, or anything else but a lake. As it is defined, it cannot be both. The river ends, and the lake starts. When you are in rivers, you follow river rules. When you are in a lake, you follow lake rules.


----------



## swaprat (Oct 1, 2011)

wartfroggy said:


> Didn't we already beat this topic to death last year?
> http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406353&highlight=tributary
> 
> A tributary is a river. PM river is a tributary to Lake Michigan. PM river has a DNR, USCG, and Army Corps defined downstream boundary of the twin bridges. From the bridges down to Lake Michigan, it is PM Lake, a type F lake. If it is defined as a lake, it cannot be a river, or stream, or tributary, or anything else but a lake. As it is defined, it cannot be both. The river ends, and the lake starts. When you are in rivers, you follow river rules. When you are in a lake, you follow lake rules.



thanks that clarifies it. 

your right tributaries flow in to pm manistee lake etc and are not the p.m. lake or manistee lake. i think i am just looking at the part were it goes to the great lake and it bugs me on how it worded.... looked up the definition of tributary and the way it worded it is the river that flow up to the lake but does not empty directly in to sea or ocean so the pm lake is not a tributary or is manistee lake ... only if they had a definition in the book on which is which it would be hole lot easier any ways thanks for all the input.....


----------



## swaprat (Oct 1, 2011)

omalson said:


> P-line jigging spoons worked great last year in manistee lake. Purple and the fire tiger color schemes.
> I had a great time jigging last year. Everyone is out there having a good time nobody is arguing about spots. Everyone would cheer when someone would catch one. I will be back out there in a few months.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire



are you use the p-line diamond jig spoons? or some thing else?


----------



## Ralph Smith (Apr 1, 2003)

Don't read into too hard. It's pretty simple. Pm lake has the word lake, pm river is a river which is a trib. Same with all other drowned rivermouth lakes. Lake is a lake, river is a river. Boundries are all difined in handbook.


----------



## omalson (Dec 28, 2010)

I will have to check the model of spoon. They look like snagging rigs I have found. Colored lead or steel with a big treble. The color seemed to be the key

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## swaprat (Oct 1, 2011)

omalson said:


> I will have to check the model of spoon. They look like snagging rigs I have found. Colored lead or steel with a big treble. The color seemed to be the key
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire



that sound like diamond jigs that why i wonder they got a ton of different jigs. are you using 1/2 -1 ounce or the big gun in the 2-6 ounce? i know my rods go to about a 1/2 -1 ounce max. is why i ask or should i buy a big gun rod for the 2-6 ounce ones?


----------



## Outdoor2daCore (Nov 8, 2010)

I'd suggest using setups we use for jigging or snap casting. A good sized 6-8 Swedish pimple, 3/4 oz elk rapids jigs and buckshot rattling spoons we catch a lot of lake, as for colors the fish will tell you that depending on the day and conditions. Also, your setup sounds good, 20lb main line power pro to a small 20lb barrel swivel then 3 ft lead of 15lb flouro


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## swaprat (Oct 1, 2011)

Ralph Smith said:


> Don't read into too hard. It's pretty simple. Pm lake has the word lake, pm river is a river which is a trib. Same with all other drowned rivermouth lakes. Lake is a lake, river is a river. Boundries are all difined in handbook.



i think i am reading into it to much is the problem it just bug me were it says "to the great lakes" i hear some bays being referred to as tributary's of bigger water etc... maybe it was being used too "loosely" there or something who knows... 

i hear you i just wanted clarification from the book on what's what there is no definitions or any thing that cover it and were it comes from. are you meant to just look up what a drowned river mouth is in a dictionary and say hay that a drowned river mouth. most of the time it say this is a drowned river mouth... 

or are you to look for definitions on the what's what in the book which are not there.. there should be a reference to those term and to look them up like were to find them weather it be a dictionary or etc... like under a common terms reference cause laws are laws people getting fine for stupid bull Shasta some times.... and would be my luck to get a fine. any ways thanks for the help!


----------



## swaprat (Oct 1, 2011)

Outdoor2daCore said:


> I'd suggest using setups we use for jigging or snap casting. A good sized 6-8 Swedish pimple, 3/4 oz elk rapids jigs and buckshot rattling spoons we catch a lot of lake, as for colors the fish will tell you that depending on the day and conditions. Also, your setup sounds good, 20lb main line power pro to a small 20lb barrel swivel then 3 ft lead of 15lb flouro
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


thank you! that what i was wondering...


----------



## wartfroggy (Jan 25, 2007)

swaprat said:


> i think i am reading into it to much is the problem it just bug me were it says "to the great lakes".....


Main rivers flowing into the Great Lakes are "tributaries to the Great Lakes". The PM is an example. Smaller rivers flowing into the PM are "tributaries to the Pere Marquette". 



swaprat said:


> i hear some bays being referred to as tributary's of bigger water etc... maybe it was being used too "loosely" there or something who knows.....


I have never heard of that, myself. A tributary is a river. A bay is not a river. Therefore, bays are not tributaries. Could you give an example?



swaprat said:


> are you meant to just look up what a drowned river mouth is in a dictionary and say hay that a drowned river mouth...


 Yes, I think that they expect you to know what a drowned river mouth, a tributary, and especially a river is. It says river or tributary. "River" is inclusive of tributaries, since tributaries are rivers, so as long as you know what a river is then you should be fine. Kind of like if a law said "cars or automobiles shall not drive over posted speed limits......". A car is an automobile, so it is kind of redundant, but not really confusing. 



swaprat said:


> or are you to look for definitions on the what's what in the book which are not there..


 Not quite sure what you are asking here. Again, if you don't know what it is, then look it up. A tributary is a tributary, a river is a river, a lake is a lake, pretty much where ever you look it up. The only exception is on how the boundaries of a specific lake or river are defined by the DNR, which is printed in the DNR Trout and Salmon rules, can usually be found on the USCG navigable waters page, and also many are available through the US Army Corps of Engineers.


----------



## swaprat (Oct 1, 2011)

Hay you are right I found what I am looking for. Got to remember I can't just assume your right cause "I heard it on the internet" does not fly with a judge. to bad the e-regs are so hard to read or i would have found it easier &#8230;
Now I know it is a &#8220;drowned river mouth lake&#8221; not a tributary or river or stream&#8230; which the rules are similar but different for some things but not others&#8230; 

From this link is note 3 below. 

http://www.eregulations.com/michigan/fishing/great-lakes-trout-salmon-regulations/

Note 3
Drowned River Mouth Lakes: On the following inland waters trout and salmon regulations are as follows: 5 total trout and salmon in any combination; no more than 3 of any one species, except up to 5 coho or Chinook salmon; minimum size limit is 10&#8243;; fishing season is open all year and the possession season for lake trout is Jan. 1 &#8211; Oct 31; except that the possession season for lake trout shall be Jan. 1 &#8211; Sep. 30 on Betsie L. For all other species of trout and salmon, the possession season is open all year. Allegan: Kalamazoo and Silver Lks. Benzie: Betsie L. Manistee: Arcadia, Manistee, and Portage Lks. Mason: Pere Marquette L. Muskegon: Duck, Mona, Muskegon, and White Lks. Oceana: Pentwater, Silver, and Stony Lks. Ottawa: Macatawa and Pigeon Lks.

I found out about note 3 here. 
Under drowned river mouth lakes&#8230;

http://www.eregulations.com/michigan/fishing/common-terms/

Also found under this link tributaries meant for rivers/streams only cited under streams only not lakes. Which makes me think it is for streams and rivers only. 

http://www.eregulations.com/michigan/fishing/inland-trout-salmon-regulations-by-county-listing/

Any ways thanks for helping.&#8230;


----------



## Drakegunner (Nov 21, 2007)

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=430318


----------



## BASEK2 (Oct 3, 2006)

I used to jig with spoons off the pier in port Austin and add a tiny one inch glow stick with a rubber band around it and a twister tail on one hook. I think I read about it in In-fisherman or something (minus the glow stick) and I caught two kings doing so. I did it because the pier was packed and room was limited. I never thought anything would hit that rig but wow, was I wrong. Granted the guys casting cleos and fire tiger rapalas were getting a lot more hits than me but it was still fun. A few guys were in shock that a 17-18 year old actually hooking up with this non traditional method. ( this was 8-9 yrs ago)

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------

