# 2020 Consent Decree



## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

twolaketown said:


> We are all Americans and we should all play by the same rules.


We are you can view it here:
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10364_36925---,00.html


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## slightofhand (Jul 21, 2010)

Jimbos said:


> From talking to the people at Big Stone Bay Fisheries in Mackinaw City, it goes to the east coast.


Thanks. East coast is a pretty saturated seafood market with ocean fish. Maybe it's finding a way onto planes or boats and shipped over seas? How much though is the question. I looked but can't find the lk mich tribal lake trout harvest quota and actual harvest numbers per year if someone has it pls post a link.


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## Jimbos (Nov 21, 2000)

slightofhand said:


> Thanks. East coast is a pretty saturated seafood market with ocean fish. Maybe it's finding a way onto planes or boats and shipped over seas? How much though is the question. I looked but can't find the lk mich tribal lake trout harvest quota and actual harvest numbers per year if someone has it pls post a link.


The two guys that work the counter there are pretty chatty, and it's what they told me. Local restaurants, a little over the counter, and then the east coast. 

Lake trout are looked down upon around here by some, but get out of this region and head east, and people have no clue what their eating because of the word trout in it.


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## RedM2 (Dec 19, 2007)

twolaketown said:


> We are all Americans and we should all play by the same rules.


That would make too much sense.


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## wallyg (Dec 31, 2010)

Fabner1 said:


> I love smoked Lakers! Haven't had any in decades!
> 
> old Colonel Fred


I see a lot of fishers on this site griping and complaining. Yes the consent decree expires shortly and negotiations begin next year. Who will pay for those negotiations.....?
The Steelheaders have been part of the AMICI group that have funded this in the past.
How many of You are part of a group that are involved in these negotiations?
The Thumb Steelheaders next meeting is July 21,2016- @ the Ubly Foxhunters Club.
I believe the topic will indeed be these negotiations. Anyone interested in this IMPORTANT 
topic is invited, and urged to attend. We now have commercial whitefish nets in southern Lake Huron.
Do We also want first nation nets......?
Lets all help be part of a united front to help protect our fishery. Come to the meetings, find out what We are about, and have a hot dog with us!
Call Me for membership info @ 810 404 5826


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Search for information on CORA. That sets the quota for how much the natives can net.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Many of the lake trout that hit the market are caught in whitefish nets or trap nets. In the fall when the lake trout are in shallow water they are targeted. I have no idea what the tribal quota is on lake trout but I know that they have one. Once it is hit they can no longer net or sell lake trout.


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

slightofhand said:


> Thanks. East coast is a pretty saturated seafood market with ocean fish. Maybe it's finding a way onto planes or boats and shipped over seas? How much though is the question. I looked but can't find the lk mich tribal lake trout harvest quota and actual harvest numbers per year if someone has it pls post a link.


Post #21 has a link with the info. It does not include the amount taken for subsistence.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

kzoofisher said:


> Post #21 has a link with the info. It does not include the amount taken for subsistence.


I think that very few are taken for subsistence as there are much better eating fish for them to catch.


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## ice jigger (Dec 27, 2013)

You must be thinking that they can't stock them. By 2020 the tribes could have control of the federal fish hatcheries, and the feds are gearing up to give control of them to the tribes as well as federal funding to run them. Any given day at the current the tribes can raise and plant salmon from the hatcheries that they currently own. The tribal fishing is much like sport fishing supply and demand. If the demand for salmon is there but the supply is lacking don't you think that they would want more salmon. I am going to talk to a couple of the guys on the tribal conservation committee and see what they are thinking. As it is now the state has to get permission from CORA to plant fish in consent decree waters. To me it sounds like the tribes have control of those waters and can plant what they want into them. Up until 2020 the state has to plant 250,000 Chinook at Nunns Creek every year as part of the decree.
When I went over nuns creek last year on my way to drummond in the fall it appeared to be blocked right off with a net of some sort, the whole mouth was netted all the way across, seems like they would want some fish to make it up and spawn, but idk


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## ice jigger (Dec 27, 2013)

Accidently reposted holmes, post


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## POOR SPORT (Oct 19, 2013)

Robert Holmes said:


> I think that very few are taken for subsistence as there a
> 
> 
> Robert Holmes said:
> ...


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

twolaketown said:


> We are all Americans and we should all play by the same rules.


Okay we all use a cane pole, bobber, and canoe and lets see how that goes.


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## twolaketown (Jun 23, 2015)

Robert Holmes said:


> Okay we all use a cane pole, bobber, and canoe and lets see how that goes.


I'm referring to placing gill/trap nets and spearing walleyes at night, off spawning beds during the closed White man season, both tactics, that are now being utilized with 21st century technology, and excluding me the option to participate because of the color of my skin.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

twolaketown said:


> I'm referring to placing gill/trap nets and spearing walleyes at night, off spawning beds during the closed White man season, both tactics, that are now being utilized with 21st century technology, and excluding me the option to participate because of the color of my skin.


Technology probably goes both ways. The white man has a lund boat with a 150 mercury and $2000 worth of electronics plus $10,000 worth of high tech gear. If you want the native americans to go back in time 200 years than I think that everyone else should do the same. You probably have had a whitefish dinner or two at a restaurant and where do you think that they came from?


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## Tracker01 (Jul 6, 2010)

twolaketown said:


> I'm referring to placing gill/trap nets and spearing walleyes at night, off spawning beds during the closed White man season, both tactics, that are now being utilized with 21st century technology, and excluding me the option to participate because of the color of my skin.


Those aren't excluded from options to participate because of the color of skin. But those that govern regulations that each have to follow. Petition the NRC for those same methods of harvest, as that is what limits methods and amount of harvest.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

twolaketown said:


> I'm referring to placing gill/trap nets and spearing walleyes at night, off spawning beds during the closed White man season, both tactics, that are now being utilized with 21st century technology, and excluding me the option to participate because of the color of my skin.


The difference is more than the color of your skin.


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## RedM2 (Dec 19, 2007)

It may have been mentioned in one of the many other threads touching on the 2020 Consent Decree, but I have not read it yet (I might have missed it?).....

I was told at a meeting last night that the 2020 Consent Decree is set to be THE FINAL decree. If this is in fact true, the importance of getting this one right is of utmost importance. Some of the rhetoric I've heard coming out of these meetings will not be to the benefit of the general public (fishermen).

Please get involved if you can...


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

I think that, seeing how the non-native residents are unhappy. They should just go back to the original treaty.


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## Corey K (Dec 11, 2009)

swampbuck said:


> I think that, seeing how the non-native residents are unhappy. They should just go back to the original treaty.


na·tive
ˈnādiv/
_noun_

*1*.
a person born in a specified place or associated with a place by birth, whether subsequently resident there or not.
"a *native of* Montreal"








_adjective_

*1*.
associated with the country, region, or circumstances of a person's birth.
"he's a native New Yorker"
synonyms: mother, vernacular, first
"her native tongue"




*2*.
(of a plant or animal) of indigenous origin or growth.
"these plants are *native to* North America"
synonyms: domestic, homegrown, homemade, local; 
indigenous
"native produce"
How do you define Native? Oh I know, us Non-Natives are really picky...and don't contribute anything to society! Yeah good one right?

Go get your butterfly net and go help em stock some Laker's !!!


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## RedM2 (Dec 19, 2007)

swampbuck said:


> I think that, seeing how the non-native residents are unhappy. They should just go back to the original treaty.


Maybe I'm wrong, but you seem to have a bias. Yes, no?


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

RedM2 said:


> Maybe I'm wrong, but you seem to have a bias. Yes, no?


A bias. No, I don't see it that way. 

There is a treaty that was upheld by the federal courts, the natives did not have to negotiate the decree, but they did. Now the immigrants want to take that away, cause it ain't enough. Just a continuation of what's been happening for a couple hundred years.

They put in far more than they take. Maybe appreciation for that is in order.


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## jdcherry (May 31, 2012)

swampbuck said:


> A bias. No, I don't see it that way.
> 
> There is a treaty that was upheld by the federal courts, the natives did not have to negotiate the decree, but they did. Now the immigrants want to take that away, cause it ain't enough. Just a continuation of what's been happening for a couple hundred years.
> 
> They put in far more than they take. Maybe appreciation for that is in order.


People don't get that the tribes are sovereign entities with which we have treaties in which we have agreed to recognize certain rights that each party has. I remember my grandpa constantly complaining about the Indians putting up their gill nets and ruining his fishing. It took me a long time to understand why things are the way that they are. General education of the public would be very helpful.


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## RedM2 (Dec 19, 2007)

swampbuck said:


> A bias. No, I don't see it that way.
> 
> There is a treaty that was upheld by the federal courts, the natives did not have to negotiate the decree, but they did. Now the immigrants want to take that away, cause it ain't enough. Just a continuation of what's been happening for a couple hundred years.
> 
> They put in far more than they take. Maybe appreciation for that is in order.


Immigrants... just about every group of people immigrated at some point.


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## RedM2 (Dec 19, 2007)

jdcherry said:


> People don't get that the tribes are sovereign entities with which we have treaties in which we have agreed to recognize certain rights that each party has.


The irony with the word sovereign being applied given the complexities that surround this is a head scratcher.


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## jdcherry (May 31, 2012)

RedM2 said:


> The irony with the word sovereign being applied given the complexities that surround this is a head scratcher.


Maybe I'm dense. What is ironic about tribal sovereignty?


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## RedM2 (Dec 19, 2007)

jdcherry said:


> Maybe I'm dense. What is ironic about tribal sovereignty?


Federal dollars/resources.


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## jdcherry (May 31, 2012)

RedM2 said:


> Federal dollars/resources.


We have a treaty between two sovereign nations that recognizes tribal hunting and fishing rights within the treaty area. The federal government spending dollars in the lakes does abrogate rights recognized by the treaty. Under that logic we should be able to ignore Canada's sovereign rights in the great lakes because the feds stocked some lake trout.


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## RedM2 (Dec 19, 2007)

jdcherry said:


> We have a treaty between two sovereign nations that recognizes tribal hunting and fishing rights within the treaty area. The federal government spending dollars in the lakes does abrogate rights recognized by the treaty. Under that logic we should be able to ignore Canada's sovereign rights in the great lakes because the feds stocked some lake trout.


That's all??


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## jpmarko (Feb 26, 2010)

jdcherry said:


> People don't get that the tribes are sovereign entities with which we have treaties in which we have agreed to recognize certain rights that each party has. I remember my grandpa constantly complaining about the Indians putting up their gill nets and ruining his fishing. It took me a long time to understand why things are the way that they are. General education of the public would be very helpful.


So I guess that entitles them to irresponsible stocking policies that will crash not just alewife but all baitfish populations. That's exactly what current lake trout stocking policies are. Irresponsible. They threaten to crash the lake, not just salmon. Nobody has a right to that. They seem to be poor stewards of the environment in that respect.


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## jdcherry (May 31, 2012)

jpmarko said:


> So I guess that entitles them to irresponsible stocking policies that will crash not just alewife but all baitfish populations. That's exactly what current lake trout stocking policies are. Irresponsible. They threaten to crash the lake, not just salmon. Nobody has a right to that. They seem to be poor stewards of the environment in that respect.


Tribes don't stock Lake Trout. They do stock some Walleye, but no Lake Trout.


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## twolaketown (Jun 23, 2015)

jdcherry said:


> Tribes don't stock Lake Trout. They do stock some Walleye, but no Lake Trout.


The tribes should stock more walleye.


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## jpmarko (Feb 26, 2010)

jdcherry said:


> Tribes don't stock Lake Trout. They do stock some Walleye, but no Lake Trout.


Everyone knows the DNR stocks them and that the number of lake trout stocked is negotiated based on demands made by the tribes. So no, the tribes don't stock them but they are the ones pushing for it. Surely you were aware of this.


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## jpmarko (Feb 26, 2010)

If the tribes made concessions for the health of the Great Lakes food web like the rest of the fishing community and conceded to larger reductions in lake trout stocking, then the DNR would have it's hands free to make appropriate stocking cuts in lake trout.


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## GAFF ME! (Jan 10, 2010)

There is a new thread "dnr fisheries proposal meeting" from last night. Has some of the dnr numbers listed from the meeting. Just an FYI


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