# Bullet Failure



## Rustyaxecamp (Mar 1, 2005)

On another forum I visit occasionally, it is common for people to say they had a bullet "fail". Usually this is a person who uses Barnes bullets and they are just trying to rip on non-Barnes bullets.

I've shot a fair amount of critters and I don't think I could ever say a bullet failed. I had one Scirroco not perform like expected, but....1. I got the buck, 2. Swift said the bullet must have tumbled (hit something before hitting the deer)and compensated me with free gear.

Anyone ever had a bullet "fail"?


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## jcurtis (Oct 11, 2004)

define fail.

i have had several .40 cal rounds fail/not fire in my pistol. its quite common if you spend a lot of time at the range. The ones that failed were PMC, i have never had a winchester fail though.


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## Rustyaxecamp (Mar 1, 2005)

By fail I mean the actual bullet did not do what was expected.

Not a misfire, the bullet "failing" on this other site usually means a cup/core design bullet totally came apart at a minimal speed, or failed to penetrate a shoulder of a deer.

I am a doubter of bullet failure and wanted to see if anyone else had an opinion on it.


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

separate. I wont name brands, but it has happened with a couple of different ones. My brother also has had it happen with another brand of bullets in his 7 Mag. Bullets, like any other component can fail.
As long as the animal is killed I dont see it as a bullet failure as such.
It doesnt take fancy bullets to kill deer, but if guys want to spend their money they can. Dangerous game is different ballgame.


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## Rustyaxecamp (Mar 1, 2005)

Kind of my thoughts too. I think a lot of times it is guys using the wrong bullets also. A 139gr Gameking isn't meant for me to rev up to 3600 in my 7RUM


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## HTC (Oct 6, 2005)

While I am a great proponent of Barnes bullets I agree that, (with any of todays top manufacturers) if a bullet does "fail" it is usually because of shooter error or just plain not matching the bullet to the game.


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## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

I've shot shells fail. While duck hunting, I pulled the trigger and a little pop sounded. The pellets slowly rolled out the end of the barrel. It's happened probably 3 or 4 times from different lots of ammo. It's almost like there was no powder in the shell.


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## uptracker (Jul 27, 2004)

I've had a ton of problems out of my .300 Winchester Mag. I've shot deer through the lungs with:
1. Rem Core Lokt 180
2. Winchester 180
3. Hornady 165 BTSP

All have not done much to a deer and I usually had to chase them down quite a ways.

I finally bought a Remington 750 Woodmaster this year in .270. Don't know what cartridge I'll hunt with, but I'm hoping it does better than my .300 for Michigan big woods hunting.

Thought about Ballistic Tips but don't really like how they "blow up". I've heard some stories with those too.


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## 2tundras (Jan 11, 2005)

I dumped ballistic tips last year. I had one "fail." Upon impact it damn near turned to dust. Not blow up, I mean I could barley find chuncks. Guy at the shop said I had too much gun for that close a shot. Dunno.

270 Weath Mag, caught some shoulder at about 40 yards. Bullet just fell apart. I'd be ok with one not performing but it turned out to be the biggest buck to date. Gotta have gear that works...period.

No more bassistic tip for me.


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## Bwana (Sep 28, 2004)

Rustyaxecamp said:


> On another forum I visit occasionally, it is common for people to say they had a bullet "fail". Usually this is a person who uses Barnes bullets and they are just trying to rip on non-Barnes bullets.
> 
> I've shot a fair amount of critters and I don't think I could ever say a bullet failed. I had one Scirroco not perform like expected, but....1. I got the buck, 2. Swift said the bullet must have tumbled (hit something before hitting the deer)and compensated me with free gear.
> 
> Anyone ever had a bullet "fail"?


I have had two cases of bullet failure. In both cases (useing a .270 Win.) I shot a Whitetail at less than 30 yards. Not only was there not an exit wound, but the bullets basically disentegrated and created very shallow wound channels (this same bullet worked well on a doe at 120 yds). I will not name names, but I did decide to upgrade to a tougher Bullet. Starting this year I will be useing the Accubond Bullet for Whitetail Applications to see if it behaves better.


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## alex-v (Mar 24, 2005)

Rustyaxecamp said:


> Anyone ever had a bullet "fail"?


Trying to keep one definition for the word, I will use that a bullet is the projectile, and all of the entire assembled componets are a cartridge.

I have had some cartridges fail because of lack of powder or a primer that jumped and went in backwards.

But, a bullet fail? If it hits it will do damage and that is its job. How well it does it is another story entirely. The right bullet for the job and the cartridge.

Over the years I have come to feel that a "bullet failure" is often a shooter's accuracy error.


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

Most of the problems with ballistic tips occur at very high velocities with the target at close range. They are really intended for out west where you will be making longer shots, not Michigan brush hunting.

After trying all of the fancy name brands with varying results I decided a long time ago to just get plain old Hornady spire points.. I use these in all 5 of the different rifle calibers that I reload and I consistently get clean kills. Nothing fancy but they get the job done. It's more about knowing where your bullet is going to hit than about the type of bullet you are using. The best bullet in the world is not going to make up for marginal accuracy.


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## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

uptracker said:


> I've had a ton of problems out of my .300 Winchester Mag. I've shot deer through the lungs with:
> 1. Rem Core Lokt 180
> 2. Winchester 180
> 3. Hornady 165 BTSP
> ...


Sounds like too much gun to me. Big gun with heavy bullets. The bullets don't have time to open up. Try a lighter soft point bullet. Soft points are designed to open quickly and do as much damage as possible. The bullets you were using would be good on bigger game where you need penetration. IMO


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

Munsterlndr said:


> Most of the problems with ballistic tips occur at very high velocities with the target at close range. They are really intended for out west where you will be making longer shots, not Michigan brush hunting.
> 
> After trying all of the fancy name brands with varying results I decided a long time ago to just get plain old Hornady spire points.. I use these in all 5 of the different rifle calibers that I reload and I consistently get clean kills. Nothing fancy but they get the job done. It's more about knowing where your bullet is going to hit than about the type of bullet you are using. The best bullet in the world is not going to make up for marginal accuracy.


I use a lot of them 7mm 139 BTSP and SST, 30 -165/180 BTSP and SST, and 6mm 95 SST..........also use a lot of the V-max varmint in 22/6mm calibers. Sierras arent bad in my 25-06, and I still use a lot of 70 gr Nosler in the 243, along with Speer TNT [varmints]
Hornady bullets have never let me down. They work great on deer also. Probably do 90% of my loading with their products.


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## mparks (Sep 4, 2001)

About the only experience I have with bullet "failure" was on a whitetail shot in the shoulder with a 270 Weatherby Mag and factory rounds from the 80s I would imagine. That thing is pushing a 130 gr bullet at 3400fps and IMHO needed to be a little stronger bullet to hold up for short range shots. Not sure what bullet it was but I now load with Nosler Partitions for that round. At least the core should hold together and penetrate.

I think the popular opinion is that under ~3000fps most bullets should hold together fine at short range and be adequate for deer. Once you push them faster or need to penetrate more tissue(i.e. Elk, Moose, Brown Bear) is when the premium bullets come into thier own. Having said that, I use premium bullets because I figure it's pretty cheap insurance when I'm lucky to fire 1 a year at game.


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## uptracker (Jul 27, 2004)

I hear ya. I've had a hard time finding any (roundnose) soft points though. I think that's what you ment anyways. The bullets I mentioned were all Pointed Soft Points.



QuakrTrakr said:


> Sounds like too much gun to me. Big gun with heavy bullets. The bullets don't have time to open up. Try a lighter soft point bullet. Soft points are designed to open quickly and do as much damage as possible. The bullets you were using would be good on bigger game where you need penetration. IMO


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## griffondog (Dec 27, 2005)

Most of my friends load their own ammo. So their always trying out a new load. So at least once a year one of them tells me their new round had a bullet failure. My response is always at what part in the animals death did the bullet fail?


Griffondog


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## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

From www.sierrabullets.com :
<I keep blowing up bullets and causing a lot of meat damage on deer, sometimes needing more shots than should be necessary. What should I do? Such a situation calls for either lower velocities, less frangible bullets, or both. This may be as simple as changing bullet weights, or altering your load to your hunting situation. Oddly enough, a bullet and load that may not be an ideal choice for a given situation may perform quite well in one gun, and yet may fail under exactly the same circumstances in an otherwise identical gun. We have always maintained that there is no such thing as a "universal" bullet, one equally well suited to all tasks. This is exactly why we produce such an extensive line of bullets in each bore size. Different weights, different nose profiles, and different jacket thicknesses all go into making one particular bullet the best suited to a particular task. Carefully match the bullet to the job at hand, and you will be rewarded with the optimum bullet performance. >


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

To put is simple; you have to match the bullet to the game. Many bullets are designed different and also have to perform in a variety of cartridges in one caliber. 30 caliber bullets have to perform in cartridges from the 300 Savage up to the 300 Ultra Mag or even the 30-378 Weatherby. If you use a ballistic tip in the Ultra Mag or Weatherby, any shot under 100 yards or so, you may run the risk of a "blow up" due to the velocities they produce and the thinner jackets on the BT's. On the same token, shooting a 180 grn Swift A-Frame out of the 300 Savage will probably give very little expansion and perform much like a FMJ. 

Many are also designed for larger, tougher game. Assuming uptracker had good bullet placement  , I think this is probably what happened to him as I think the 165 or 180 grain bullets are better suited to larger, tougher game such as elk. They most likely weren't expanding due to the thicker bullet jacket, also performing much like a FMJ. Others bullets are designed for lower velocities than many (esp mags) produce and when you push a ballistic tip at over 3000 fps, you run the risk of fragmentation. Some even come apart in flight. 

Deer are light framed animals not hard to put down with properly placed shots. Most normal PSP's or RN's are entirely adequate and I think some may get caught up in marketing by bullet companies (or gun writers) trying to push some of these ultra premium (and expensive) bullets when they are really not needed. IMO many of these bullets are simply are too tough for deer. For the price of some of them I think most hunters would be better off getting an extra box or two of the PSP's and getting in some shooting practice.


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

what is the deal with guys not wanting to name names? hey, if you've got problems with a product, let's hear it.. 

given that we're talking about deer and not varmints...

of course bullet failure is real!

how does a bullet kill?

by crushing a large wound channel through an animal. deep penetration for maximum damage. deep penetration cannot be obtained when bullets shed weight. therefore, i define "failure" as a bullet that either separates from the core, or shatters.

its easy to say, "well, the deer died and you recovered it". to me, that's just luck. if you don't get deep, straight line penetration, you're only one shot away from losing an animal. eventually, that failure will catch up with you.

m1 put it the best - different bullets have different attributes. there is no "magic" bullet. and most importantly, there is no free lunch. for every advantage you gain with a bullet, you suffer a disadvantage somewhere else.

know your bullet. know how fast it is traveling at the ranges you will kill with it. know what speeds are required for positive expansion without separation. 

what are the advantages of a cup and core bullet?
what are the advantages of a bonded bullet?
what are the advantages of a partitioned bullet?
what are the operating speeds for these bullets? 

if you cannot answer these questions, you will experience bullet failure someday.


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