# Cut Bait could be one of the carriers of VHS



## Coldwater Charters (Sep 17, 2000)

It looks like cut bait may be on the chopping block among other types a bait fishing according to the Detroit Freep story today. 

&#8226; Banning or limiting the use of spawn (fish eggs) as bait, because most spawn comes from Pacific Ocean or Great Lakes waters that have had outbreaks of VHS.
&#8226; Banning frozen herring because it comes from infected areas and the virus is known to live in frozen fish.


This was in another thread but this title may get more mileage. Cut bait really is not a big deal if that becomes illegal but if they ban using spawn for use as fishing now that is going to hurt the river fisherman. If the feds get involved it won't be a $100 fine if caught I would suspect it would be in the neighborhood of $10,000 fine.
I have never been a fan of cut bait anyways, but the spawn will make the river guides and anglers life a lot tougher to get fish. 

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070506/SPORTS10/705060667/1058


Their are a few other things that could put the Ka Bosh to fisherman also. 

&#8226; Limiting or banning the transportation of trailerable boats between some waters, especially when moving between Great Lakes basins.

Pretty hard to run cut bait now considering you may be bringing in more problems everytime you drop that stuff in the water. Anyone that's been on these Forums lately knows I don't run cut bait and never have. For those that do, I feel your pain. I know to loose a way of fishing would be a tough blow. This whole thing sounds pretty serious.


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## Spanky (Mar 21, 2001)

from the info we recieved at our last advisory meeting, the action on spawn fishing would probably restrict spawn fishing from all in land lakes and a few upper penn streams, but for the most of us in the LP, it would probably still be able to be used from the great lakes up to the first dam,(that was impassable) or last fish ladder. In other words, were the migratory salmnoids can get to, spawn could be allowed.


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## Coldwater Charters (Sep 17, 2000)

I just got off the phone with Jim Dexter who is the Lake Michigan fisheries manager. He said the Pacific herring has an extremely high percentage of VHS in them. What they are reccomending is that any herring or other types of frozen bait brought into the Great lakes will have to be certified to not contain VHS. This sounds like a big task for those wholesaling these products and it might price them right out of the market.


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## Mark Turner (Dec 24, 2004)

My concience is clear Mike. Herring is not the culprit, ballast water is. People have been using herring in Michigan and especially Lake Ontario for som time now. Without the sky is falling attitude most of these guys wouldn't have a job. That article is far from conclusive by any means. I would like to see how VHS reacts to a fine mixture of borax and pickling salt.   

Just in case I guess I'll have to tune up the old flasher/fly and spoon program.:corkysm55


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## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

Well thats good to hear that they are not considering all out banning spawn Spanky, although it isn't the problem, And neither is herring.
It is almost without a doubt the shipping.
I must say I am glad I remain prolific at lure fishing though! Who knows whet the future may bring.


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## Coldwater Charters (Sep 17, 2000)

How do you know herring is not the culprit? According to Jim Dexter he said that the Pacific herring has a very high percentage of herring infected with VHS. Also according to Jim, he said they don't know what or where the problem lays or how it came in and are going to cover their butts with a broad brush. If you just turn your head a look the other way. That is not smart either. If I knew there was a chance infected herring from the Pacific that were brought in for fishing might do damage to the great lakes, no way no how would I be using it. Anyone that does otherwise is very foolish. 

You say cut bait has been here for a long time. How do you know that in recent years contaminated cut bait wasn't introduced to the great lakes and prior to that all cut bait was non infected or what ever. 

Whatever the case is, this will be a non issue soon as all cut bait will have to be certified as non infected before being sold or even banned here in at least Michigan and I am assuming all great lakes states. 

You baffle me Mark, you seem so cock sure that cut bait is not the Culprit and one of the top officials as the fisheries manager for Michigan can't even answer that for sure. It seems odd to me that the pacific herring has a high infection rate [ according to Jim Dexter with the DNR] with VHS and now we have VHS. Hard to look away from that fact.


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## kingfisher 11 (Jan 26, 2000)

I agree cut bait has been used for a while. Just the last few years though, it has become very big. Many bait shops did not have the gear. Now almost all of them have it. My bet could be this is the culprit.


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## Take Five (May 10, 2003)

My opinion is that there is a very good probability that herring is the culprit. How many ocean going vessels from the pacific ocean do you see plying the waters of the Great Lakes?? It should be noted that I also promote fishing with cut bait and actually benefit financially from those that do. There will be herring available that is cerified vhs free for those that want to continue using it. I have begun experimenting with other alternatives, smelt and sucker belly meat. Alewifes will be on the end of the line also. 
I believe that steps to stop this vhs have begun early enough to avoid an epedimic. 

Wayne


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## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

While my name is Mark I doubt the above replies were meant for me. Nevertheless...
Where did it show up first? Where all the invasives show up. The Eastern Great lakes. Seems logical to me, shipping.
So nobody uses herring or other cut baits on the West side? Why doesn't anything ever show up here (Western Great lakes) first? Remember the silver carp isn't _officially _here yet.
Just some food for thought.


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## beer and nuts (Jan 2, 2001)

Does the west coast herring/salmon/seals/bears and god knows what other fish species have any huge problems with VHS. IF West coast herring had VHS wouldn't there be a shortage of them? Lake ONt. fisherman have used herring for decades and way before MI but somehow their bio's never seem to pin-point a problem with salmon and herring to VHS. They are painting a broad paintbrush because they have no idea what/where/why about VHS, that concerns me more...knew jerk reaction..usual gov't crap! How about Indian nets being the problem-maybe we can link something to Indian nets and the conditions in the holding tanks on their boats...why not, everything should be open!! Where did their fishing tugs come from?


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## Butch (Aug 29, 2001)

The shippers are fighting in court over the regulation of ballast water. The ballast water is a possible vector of VHS(also a known source of exotic species, but we're talking about VHS here). Yet, they are arguing to continue doing things the same way they have been doing them. Cut bait is a potential vector of VHS. Yet, the cut bait users are arguing to continue doing things the same way they have been doing them. In addition to the other risks, don't you think the shippers(or their attorneys) might try to use this to their advantage in court? 

In any case, does anyone really want to argue against regulation of a known potential vector because it hasn't yet been proven to infect the Great Lakes while the disease is allowed to spread? Allowing a disease to continue to spread until we unequivocally know the cause is foolish; the only way to know for sure might be to allow the disease to spread, then after it's too late we'll be able to identify "proof" of how it spread. It's kind of like the FBI knowing about several terrorists planning attacks. Should they all be arrested(YES), or should only the nastiest terrorist be arrested, then wait to see if the others actually carry out an attack(NO).

Butch


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## Coldwater Charters (Sep 17, 2000)

Beer and Nuts, I am just telling you what the DNR guy told me. The Herring from the Pacific have a very high rate of infection with the VHS virus and freezing it doesn't kill it. Whether they have had it for years or they just got it, I didn't ask so I don't know if he knows that either. If folks run the stuff now knowing what we know now or don't know for that matter, it's like playing Russian roulette with our fisheries.


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## Mark Turner (Dec 24, 2004)

First off I would just like to say that Mike is strongly anti-herring:

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=179457





Coldwater Charters said:


> How do you know herring is not the culprit? According to Jim Dexter he said that the Pacific herring has a very high percentage of herring infected with VHS. Also according to Jim, he said they don't know what or where the problem lays or how it came in and are going to cover their butts with a broad brush. If you just turn your head a look the other way. That is not smart either. If I knew there was a chance infected herring from the Pacific that were brought in for fishing might do damage to the great lakes, no way no how would I be using it. Anyone that does otherwise is very foolish.
> 
> You say cut bait has been here for a long time. How do you know that in recent years contaminated cut bait wasn't introduced to the great lakes and prior to that all cut bait was non infected or what ever.
> 
> ...


I baffle a lot of people, especially my wife. :lol: 

I think it is baffling how you can take an inconclusive article from a hack writer and this statement "they don't know what or where the problem lays or how it came in and are going to cover their butts with a broad brush" and use it to indirectly support your views. Use the tested scientific data to form an opinion, not someones thought. See above link.......

I think it is baffling that the artical states _*frozen*_ herring and that automatically means all herring, incuding brined and prepared. 

I think it is baffling that you question my care for the resource when you are exploiting it for money everyday.

I think its baffling I pulled the kings on Saturday pulling meat.










I think it baffling that everyone is so fast to react to the "chicken little" syndrom.

But most of all I think it is baffling that the Michgan DNR has no clue what is going on, but you can bet you ***** we will be paying another year of salaries and we won't know any more than before. On top of that if cuts are anounced you can bet there will be another red herring (pun intended):lol: 

Mikey if you think that brined herring is going to bring in the Fish Ebola than by all means I will quit using it. Oh yah, I will quit using lead, gasoline, grease in my bearings, and quit smoking. Get the FACTS fisrt and then make an informed decision.


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## beer and nuts (Jan 2, 2001)

Mark T.-thats just the way I feel about the situation. 

You also make a point about leadcore, etc..lead has been know to cause cancer in Cali.(read it all the time on any lead based stuff) but do you see anybody banning it for leadcore, sinkers, etc...Also the paint on lures is also lead based with other chemicals as well, do we need to ban this too!? The point being, there are tons of things that can cause all sorts of diseases etc..BUT its such a small percentage that the chances are slim to none. IF the DNR does not know and they want to paint brush everything, than why stop at a few things-ban boating, live bait, swimming, etc.etc.

I'll go back to the indian thing, does the DNR really know whether it came from Indian tugs holding tanks?? Lets have them test the tugs fish holding tanks, nets, etc.. You think I'm over-reacting? Its not more than banning herring on lake MI or Huron makes any sense, but the West coast states, Lake Ontario fisherman that have been using this stuff for decades can still use it and they have no problems.

Its a knee-jerk reaction..plain and simple.


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## Fletch09 (Jun 4, 2002)

Coldwater Charters said:


> If folks run the stuff now knowing what we know now or don't know for that matter, it's like playing Russian roulette with our fisheries.


.......says the guy who has proclaimed to have never run bait (and never will?) :lol:

Awful convenient, don't you think?


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## Fletch09 (Jun 4, 2002)

Mark Turner said:


> First off I would just like to say that Mike is strongly anti-herring:
> 
> http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=179457
> 
> ...


Don't you get it Mark? One should never let the facts get in the way of a good argument!!!!


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## omega58 (Sep 3, 2003)

Well, a quick google search doesn't mention cut bait as the issue from the leading expert on VHS in the United States. He speculates that ballast water is the most likely candidate. 

And also, if it was from the herring from the west coast as you like to suggest, why is it a totally different strain? 

I will tend to believe the leading expert on this one. . . .ballast water has been killing the Great Lakes for years, why should it stop now? 

Here is the link, enjoy:

http://www.fws.gov/fisheries/nfhs/VHS.htm


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## MoneyMan11 (Jan 8, 2004)

omega58 said:


> Well, a quick google search doesn't mention cut bait as the issue from the leading expert on VHS in the United States. He speculates that ballast water is the most likely candidate.
> 
> And also, if it was from the herring from the west coast as you like to suggest, why is it a totally different strain?
> 
> ...


I hate it when someone goes and does some research to refute a biased post. Besides, how hard would it be to fish with alewives instead of herring. Casting net is cheaper than getting rid of gear.


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## SalmonBum (Feb 28, 2001)

I think VHS is what they claimed to be the culprit killing off musky and Drum In St. Clair last yr. I don't know alot of people using Cut Bait to target those species.

BTW alewives Do work as well  .


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## Trout Scout (Apr 27, 2005)

Anyone who has run cut knows lots of different things we can do. It is serious (very serious) VHS but the story in the Free Press was way off base.
After I just talked to Eric and thought he finally had a good article. He had to bring this up and then on the other posts everyone said fish moved West and Up the coast. Fletch knows and I know there are a lot of theories on VHS and everyone is running scared. I about fell over when I saw this(the article) Going from having a bad tournament to VHS killing off all the fish.Give me a break! Plants didn't have anything to do with this? Didn't they cut Cohos almost to nothing? Also, last shot at the article he had to mention Lake Huron and of course the problems we had here. Have they seen the muskie and drum die-off this year in the river?
I know my daugther fishes the river and she has not seen any dead fish this year. I have no problem with the DNR and I'm on lots of advisory boards with them and they are biffled by a lot of this. We could say Cormorants spread the disease and they have to be certified. Ships and Ballasts are the major sources. Enough said Capt Ed


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