# ccw and bowhunting



## andy capp (Aug 14, 2002)

Can you carry a pistol while bow hunting with a ccw?


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Definitely not!


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## andy capp (Aug 14, 2002)

My friend told me they changed the law. I told him no way.


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## deputy (Feb 2, 2002)

as boher stated they have not changed the law and it is still a no carry while bowhunting!


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## answerguy8 (Oct 15, 2001)

Boehr,
Your use of an exclamation mark makes me ask- would you be against a change in the law allowing CCW permit holders to carry while bowhunting?
Gary


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Yes, I would be against changing any current hunting law to allow the carrying of a handgun where it is now prohibited, CCW or not.

I see no way, for example, bow hunting, to allow a person who has a CCW which all a CCW does is allow you to carry a concealed weapon verses allow a hunter, maybe a poacher, to carry a handgun exposed (without a CCW) while bow hunting without discrimination and holding something against one hunter for, let's say a misdemeanor traffic ticket, verses another person.


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## answerguy8 (Oct 15, 2001)

I'm not real sure I understood your explanation. 

I have to assume that the reason for not allowing the carrying of a pistol while bow hunting is that someone might use the pistol to poach a deer. As you well know CCW permit holders have to go through a thorough background check before getting their permit. I can't imagine one of them risking all the time and money they put into getting their permit (not to mention their reputation) to poach a deer. The reason I want to carry while bow hunting is because I've been threatened by tresspassers while on my own property.

BTW- I follow the creed of Aldo Leopold from your sig line


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Ok let me try to make my answer a little clearer for you.

You do not need a CCW to possess or to own a handgun.

The only thing a CCW does is allow you to carry a handgun concealed.

If it was not a violation to be in possession of any type of firearm while bow hunting then anyone could have a firearm while bow hunting. A CCW would have nothing to do with it.

If the law was to state that you can bow hunt with a firearm in possession as long as you had a CCW I believe there would be a problem constitutionally because you are discriminating against anyone that doesn't have a CCW regardless if they qualified for a CCW or not. There are plenty of hunters out there with a perfect record that would qualify for a CCW but they don't want to carry. Would you be one to say you have to have a CCW if your going to want to take a gun bow hunting if it was legal? I hope you see how one thing opens other issues up.

As far as the poaching deer, you have no idea what some will risk when they think they can get away with it.

The threats you have had by trespassers on your own property, how many have been turned in for trespassing? I really don't think you need to answer that question because we could get into a long drawn out discussion. You can not use or threaten a person with a gun for trespassing because if you do display it or even if the perps percieve it as a threat by you as protection against a misdemeanor you would be putting your own CCW in jeapordy. If you have trespass problems, best to do it the right way from the start because you could just hurt yourself in the long run. That's just advice, use it as you will.


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## answerguy8 (Oct 15, 2001)

I guess I'm a little naive.

I don't carry my pistol to see what I can get away with, I carry it for self protection. If I'm bow hunting for deer I would never consider pulling out a pistol to try to 'beat' the system. I hunt for the enjoyment of the challenge not to fill the freezer by any means available. I'm proud to say that the people I hunt with feel and act the same way I do. It's disappointing that laws have to be written to discourage people who don't feel the same way.

Please don't think that I plan on flashing my pistol at someone that I find on my property. I know full well that brandishing will get me in deep trouble. But I have found notes on my property saying "I will hunt here if I want to", these notes were punctuated with obsenities and shotgun blasts. Imagine the scenario where I find someone on my property that is squirrel hunting with a shotgun and I'm carrying a bow. The regulation has thus rendered me defensless on my own land.


As far as the discrimination issue goes a CCW permit holder already is given special privileges. Of course they had to earn them with a clean record and go through the expense of the training too.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

I'm not talking about you poaching but I promise there are those that do. You have a choice, you can bow hunt or you can carry your handgun. You have had trespassers and found these notes all these years you you didn't need to carry but now you do need to for self protection, what is different besides you having a CCW?. We will have to agree to disagree then.


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## Zofchak (Jan 10, 2003)

I don't see any reason why hunters with a ccw should not be allowed to carry while bow hunting. We are allowed to carry a shotgun while hunting small game during bow season and if one wanted to they could easily poach deer at short range with a shotgun. During the majority of bow season it is legal to hunt small game and predators with a centerfire rifle and again in that case any one who is so inclined to break the law could easily shoot deer.

A concealed handgun is for protecting oneself in life threatening situations, not for taking pot shots at running deer. And I would have to think that someones life is more important than the ever so small number of deer that would be taken illegally by someone carrying for their protection. 

I remember hearing about an off duty police officer that was murdered while bow hunting a couple years ago. He was not a carrying, and I dont know if that would have made any difference, but we'll never know. I think if people can be trusted to carry a concealed weapon in public where there are large numbers of people then there is no reason they shouldnt be allowed to do so while hunting with a bow.. Just my 2 cents on the subject.


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## answerguy8 (Oct 15, 2001)

> _Originally posted by boehr _
> *I'm not talking about you poaching but I promise there are those that do. You have a choice, you can bow hunt or you can carry your handgun. You have had trespassers and found these notes all these years you you didn't need to carry but now you do need to for self protection, what is different besides you having a CCW?. We will have to agree to disagree then. *


I'm not sure what we are disagreeing about. 
I think we agree on the following: 

CCW permit holders are more law abiding than the general population.

From the state police report on the first year of CCW I don't recall anyone having their license revoked for poaching.

A weapon should not be drawn unless one's life is threatened, simply catching someone trespassing is not a reason to draw a gun. That is pretty much the same rule any LEO follows isn't it?

And a curiosity question- can a LEO carry a sidearm while bow hunting?


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

We can go around and around on this subject. Bottom line is that it is illegal to be in possession of any firearm while bow hunting for deer. That's the law and as stated above I don't want the law changed.


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## answerguy8 (Oct 15, 2001)

I certainly respect your opinion. I hope you'll excuse all my nosy questions but your input as a LEO is important to my understanding of the subject.

If I'm reading you right you don't want the law changed because some individuals might poach.



> You have had trespassers and found these notes all these years you you didn't need to carry but now you do need to for self protection, what is different besides you having a CCW?.


To answer your question about what is different now that I have a CCW. I'm a law abiding person, no different than you. I carry because I legally can, within the constraints of the CCW law. It could be said that I have wasted my time carrying a sidearm because I have never used it. But then there are many LEO's whose weapons have never cleared leather either. I would never suggest to them that they shouldnt have been carrying.

BTW- what I currently do while bow hunting is carry a camera and a cell phone. If I encounter trouble I just pray that 911 will be able to locate me in time.

New question- Can I carry while turkey hunting?


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Here you go, this should answer your questions. 

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19784&highlight=CCW


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## dongiese (Jun 10, 2002)

Boehr,

just a simple question, and I'm not trying to get this thread out of hand with it. please excuse me if it is wrong to ask.

i'm bow hunting and i may want to small game hunt also, can i carry my pistol/revolver loaded with bird shot(i'm sure you have seen this ammo for pistols/revolvers)to small game hunt? or 

i'm small game hunting with a pistol loaded with bird shot, and i'm carrying my bow with me.

the only thing i can come up with is if i have broad heads on the arrows i'm in the wrong, but if a have blunt tips it's ok.?


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

If you are bow hunting deer it is illegal to possess any type of firearm with any type of ammo.

Now if you want to take you firearm to hunt small game, leave your gun in your vehicle and when you are done bow hunting walk over to your vehicle and put your bow away and get your gun.


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## answerguy8 (Oct 15, 2001)

My final thought is that the rule about not being able to carry a concealed weapon while bow hunting is an "artificial" crime. Laws like this make people criminals without them having to do anything. A crime requires a perpetrator and a victim.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Well, the same thing could be said about any of the prohibited areas that a person, as a CCW permit holder, are not allowed to carry. One of the reasons we have laws is not only to prevent poaching but also to provide equality to hunters as much as possible.

If you don't take a firearm while bow hunting deer then you won't be a criminal for doing it, if you do take a firearm when bow deer hunting then you obviously did do something, you took a firearm.

It is no different that carrying a gun exposed while hunting where a CCW is not required but you still can't take it bow deer hunting. Just because a person has a CCW doesn't automatically mean that person is better or more honest that a person without a CCW.


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## answerguy8 (Oct 15, 2001)

Now that you mention it...



> Well, the same thing could be said about any of the prohibited areas that a person, as a CCW permit holder, are not allowed to carry. One of the reasons we have laws is not only to prevent poaching but also to provide equality to hunters as much as possible.


...I feel the same way about the above law.

Prior to July 2001 CCW permit holders could carry at a school. There were zero incidents then. Now permit holders are FBI background checked and required to take training. Zero incidents could be expected now. The main thing is if someone is intent on committing a crime with a gun, on school property, no law will stop the person. Another side benefit of lifting the no carry zone restrictions is that guns will be less likely to be left in a car. This means guns are less likely to be stolen.



> If you don't take a firearm while bow hunting deer then you won't be a criminal for doing it, if you do take a firearm when bow deer hunting then you obviously did do something, you took a firearm.


I will follow the law until it's changed. I have no desire to be either a criminal or an 'artificial' criminal.




> It is no different that carrying a gun exposed while hunting where a CCW is not required but you still can't take it bow deer hunting. Just because a person has a CCW doesn't automatically mean that person is better or more honest that a person without a CCW.


I'd be willing to change the law to allow bow hunters to open carry. I'm willing to trust my fellow hunters until they do something to lose that trust.


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