# Atlantic salmon



## Gordon Casey (Jun 13, 2017)

I have a few questions regarding the life cycle of the atlantic's. The pacific salmon have, what I call a predetermined life cycle, meaning they die at a defined rate. Pinks, coho, kings die in a 2, 3, 4 year cycle. There is some variability in that cycle, some my die earlier and some my live longer based on a bunch of life variables.
The atlantics do not have a defined life cycle, some will live after the spawn and return to spawn in other years. Something like trout do. I have learned that spawning takes a toll on all fish, stress is caused by the migration, lack of eating, building the redd's, males fighting for dominance. The highest period of time for fish die off is during the spawn, regardless of species.
Now my questions
I have caught atlantics from June through October. The June fish are silver and the males have just an indication of the kype. In October the jaws are gnarly, the kype is well defined and there is a pocket in the upper jaw for the kype to locate. The fish that have a green/gold skin coloration. Are these the fish that are destined to die? Or is there a metamorphosis back to the normal state??
Do the fish that spawn and live have the same look as the gnarly ones?
On the average, how long to atlantics live?
There are a lot of viewers and reporters on this forum that have educated knowledge on salmon life cycles. I hope there in input from them..........I'm too lazy to look it up myself......honesty is the best policy.
Thanks, Gordon


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## Gordon Casey (Jun 13, 2017)

Gordon Casey said:


> I have a few questions regarding the life cycle of the atlantic's. The pacific salmon have, what I call a predetermined life cycle, meaning they die at a defined rate. Pinks, coho, kings die in a 2, 3, 4 year cycle. There is some variability in that cycle, some my die earlier and some my live longer based on a bunch of life variables.
> The atlantics do not have a defined life cycle, some will live after the spawn and return to spawn in other years. Something like trout do. I have learned that spawning takes a toll on all fish, stress is caused by the migration, lack of eating, building the redd's, males fighting for dominance. The highest period of time for fish die off is during the spawn, regardless of species.
> Now my questions
> I have caught atlantics from June through October. The June fish are silver and the males have just an indication of the kype. In October the jaws are gnarly, the kype is well defined and there is a pocket in the upper jaw for the kype to locate. The fish that have a green/gold skin coloration. Are these the fish that are destined to die? Or is there a metamorphosis back to the normal state??
> ...


I did some follow up on atlantics
Read an article on atlantic life cycle about fish that migrate from fresh to salt and back to fresh water to spawn.
They can live a long time, anywhere from 5 to 10 years. At maturity they make their migration to fresh water to spawn. Most mature die after spawning but a few live to spawn again. These fish are called "double spawners". So, it's safe to say that most atlantics die after spawning but life cycles are much different than Pacific salmon.
I am still wondering if our Michigan atlantics have a different life cycle. Do they move in and out of rivers and lakes frequently.
The article I read stated that atlantics that are on a spawn run do not eat. Is it safe to say the actively feeding atlantics in the river are residents or do they return back to the big water. I think our fresh water atlantics live differently than the salt water version. Any readers on here from LSSU? Any comments from the aquatics research would be appreciated.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

I've seen pictures of Atlantics caught in early June, that still had pretty well defined kypes, from spawning the previous fall. 

I had some fairly lengthy discussions with a former DNR Biologist, years ago, regarding Steelhead. He told me that, while Steelhead can spawn multiple times, it is not the normal thing. He estimated that 85% of post-spawn Steelhead died, from the same factors you cited above. And male Steelhead die at a much higher rate than females. Bucks basically spawn until they die. Hens often run a river with ripe eggs, spawn, and then drop back to the lake/ocean pretty quickly. Those are the fish most likely to spawn multiple times.

And the repeat spawners don't get much larger in subsequent years. Their biggest value is that they spawn multiple times, which mostly matters in rivers that support viable natural reproduction. But it is a cool thing.


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## Gordon Casey (Jun 13, 2017)

Fishndude said:


> I've seen pictures of Atlantics caught in early June, that still had pretty well defined kypes, from spawning the previous fall.
> 
> I had some fairly lengthy discussions with a former DNR Biologist, years ago, regarding Steelhead. He told me that, while Steelhead can spawn multiple times, it is not the normal thing. He estimated that 85% of post-spawn Steelhead died, from the same factors you cited above. And male Steelhead die at a much higher rate than females. Bucks basically spawn until they die. Hens often run a river with ripe eggs, spawn, and then drop back to the lake/ocean pretty quickly. Those are the fish most likely to spawn multiple times.
> 
> And the repeat spawners don't get much larger in subsequent years. Their biggest value is that they spawn multiple times, which mostly matters in rivers that support viable natural reproduction. But it is a cool thing.


Good stuff, Fish.
I bet most people don't know or understand the life cycles of fish. Some think fish spawn every year and return to do it over and over again. I'm betting that most species, perch, walleye, trout, bass have significant die off's after spawning.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Was in the hatchery at LSSU taking a tour with my daughter Friday. Pretty small but well sorted out operation.

They had one three year old Atlantic that came back as a 22#. Lots of 5-7 year old fish. Most of these were smaller. Why? Those that survive spawning never really fully recover, and seem to plateau at their pre-spawn weight.


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## Forest Meister (Mar 7, 2010)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> Was in the hatchery at LSSU taking a tour with my daughter Friday. Pretty small but well sorted out operation.
> 
> They had one three year old Atlantic that came back as a 22#. Lots of 5-7 year old fish. Most of these were smaller. Why? Those that survive spawning never really fully recover, and seem to plateau at their pre-spawn weight.


Everybody should tour the fisheries lab. It is amazing the research that undergrads work on for their senior projects. 

Things will only get better when the Freshwater Research Center is complete. FM


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## wpmisport (Feb 9, 2010)

You can catch a few eight to twelve pound Atlantic salmon and then you hook up with a twenty ponder and wonder how old is that fish compared to the others.


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## PunyTrout (Mar 23, 2007)

I don't have much to add but Atlantics are in the same genus as Brown trout. (Salmo; salar & trutta respectively).

One site suggests that wild Atlantic Salmon can live 13 years and Brown Trout up to 38 years.

http://genomics.senescence.info/species/entry.php?species=Salmo_salar

http://genomics.senescence.info/species/entry.php?species=Salmo_trutta

I don't know about here in Michigan but maybe some of those Atlantic Salmon reserves in Russia might have some older fish returning year after year.

Long video but interesting regarding the Russian salmon reserves:


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## Benzie Rover (Mar 17, 2008)

Studies on steelhead repeat spawning rate have determined that length and severity of migration to spawning grounds is a significant factor in determining the % of adult spawners that recover and make another spawning run. I would say it is safe to assume that the same effect is seen in Atlantic salmon. Short rivers with minimal to no rapids have the highest percentage of repeat spawners whereas the longer migrations that involve more physical obstacles have the lowest. It's a pretty logical conclusion just from an energy conservation standpoint. In one of the larger studies I read on the Brule River in MN they had one buck that returned 7 times. Females have a more difficult time due to the stress of digging the redd and the energy requirement of egg production. I am sure there is a good amount of Atlantic salmon literature on repeat spawning out there, I just never researched them much compared to pacific salmonids that were the focus of my thesis.


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## B.Jarvinen (Jul 12, 2014)

Great thread. Perhaps help explains “Jacks” even. If it is an easy swim up to that gravel, why not just follow the pretty ladies?

I need to learn the Latin names of fish, too. Never realized that about Browns though seems obvious when I think about it. 

Michigan would have a lot of easy spawning rivers in terms of fish energy expended. The Snake River, perhaps, not so much. 


Not to derail this thread, but is there perhaps a thread with news of the workings of the expansion of the LSSU lab site? Really looking forward to that whole area being rebuilt. Ideally, Atlantic smolt production can increase there, -and- a super great shore fishing site can be used by the public once again. Seems like an ideal place for lots of ‘partnership’ type dollars to end up.


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## mfs686 (Mar 15, 2007)

From Orvis News:

https://news.orvis.com/fly-fishing/...i3JHxApDh1CkGMOzKl6NOpA7MtyX7NeH2zxeZ8DwvhY-4


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Heavy equipment was doing heavy equipment stuff at 4pm Friday. 

Did you know the smolts are light sensitive and will hide under the covers on the holding tanks? The coho at Honor will charge up to you and bite your fingers if you get them too close to the surface, but the little atlantics were bashful and just wanted to hide. The guy there also said that after they have it open for the public he can count on 25-50 dead fish per tank just due to the stress of all the traffic going through.


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## Gordon Casey (Jun 13, 2017)

Forest Meister said:


> Everybody should tour the fisheries lab. It is amazing the research that undergrads work on for their senior projects.
> 
> Things will only get better when the Freshwater Research Center is complete. FM


Forest
Do you have any detail on what the freshwater research facility will look like? I understand it will be just east of the Cloverland facility. What is the size going to be? Will they rebuild the wall and again allow casting for salmon.


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## Gordon Casey (Jun 13, 2017)

mfs686 said:


> From Orvis News:
> 
> https://news.orvis.com/fly-fishing/...i3JHxApDh1CkGMOzKl6NOpA7MtyX7NeH2zxeZ8DwvhY-4


That link has all the information I needed to better understand the life cycle. My take is that young fish will stay in the river for 1-3 years than go to the big water for 1-2 years than return to the river to spawn. That life cycle could be double for cold water fish. I'm guessing that St. Marys and Lake Huron would be considered cold water conditions. Most will die but some will make another spawn run.


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## mfs686 (Mar 15, 2007)

I don't know much about them myself. I've caught the landlocked version in Maine and the Lake Huron version as well. Some day I'll try and catch the true salt water version.


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## Forest Meister (Mar 7, 2010)

Gordon Casey said:


> Forest
> Do you have any detail on what the freshwater research facility will look like? I understand it will be just east of the Cloverland facility. What is the size going to be? Will they rebuild the wall and again allow casting for salmon.


Off the top of my head I could not tell you what it will look like. The architect's drawing was in the sault paper a year or so ago, though. Maybe there is something on the LSSU website.

Yes, it is just east of the power plant and they seem to be going great guns with the construction. Trucks have been running past my house for at least three weeks hauling sand/gravel to the site and with all the digging going on they are probably backhauling other material. Concerning the wall. Way back in the planning stage it was said the wall would be rebuilt when the facility was completed but who knows if that has changed by now. FM


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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

There were lots of post-spawn fish that wintered the Au Sable River last year. Lots of them. They held over through early spring. Males and females. They started chroming back up as spring hit.

They were interesting to watch during fall spawning. Once spawning really got going, males seemed very aggressive. Possibly more so than any other salmonoid I’ve witnessed. They’re a cool fish.


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## Gordon Casey (Jun 13, 2017)

Forest Meister said:


> Off the top of my head I could not tell you what it will look like. The architect's drawing was in the sault paper a year or so ago, though. Maybe there is something on the LSSU website.
> 
> Yes, it is just east of the power plant and they seem to be going great guns with the construction. Trucks have been running past my house for at least three weeks hauling sand/gravel to the site and with all the digging going on they are probably backhauling other material. Concerning the wall. Way back in the planning stage it was said the wall would be rebuilt when the facility was completed but who knows if that has changed by now. FM


Thanks Forest. I'm not planning my next trip up there until spring. Maybe a picture or two as the building progresses.


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## Gordon Casey (Jun 13, 2017)

ausable_steelhead said:


> There were lots of post-spawn fish that wintered the Au Sable River last year. Lots of them. They held over through early spring. Males and females. They started chroming back up as spring hit.
> 
> They were interesting to watch during fall spawning. Once spawning really got going, males seemed very aggressive. Possibly more so than any other salmonoid I’ve witnessed. They’re a cool fish.


Interesting to read that they change back from that olive color to silver. Are there a lot of atlantics caught when fishing for steelhead in the winter or early spring? Atlantics provide a good fishery now and will provide a great fishery once the plantings are increased. They are showing up all over Lake Huron.


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## Forest Meister (Mar 7, 2010)

Gordon Casey said:


> Thanks Forest. I'm not planning my next trip up there until spring. Maybe a picture or two as the building progresses.


Things are moving along but no pics, there is nothing to take pictures of yet except a couple of cranes driving some sort of pilings and a couple front end loaders. FM


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