# is one application of roundup enough?



## sadworld (Aug 4, 2003)

if i burn my field and then apply roundup after it starts to green will i be able to go right to the no till drill for seed planting after it dies off? or should i let it green AGAIN and round up again before planting? i want to do it right but don't want to spend more than i have to either... thanks. matt.


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## Anderson (May 17, 2005)

If you get a good kill the 1st time you can go ahead and seed. Don't skimp on rates and use a good nonionic surfactant and you should be fine. 

Tim


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## Ken Martin (Sep 30, 2003)

If you have a No-Till you can plant right after you spray. You don't have to wait for die off.

Ken


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## orion (Apr 8, 2002)

If you are no-tilling in a NWSG like prairie or switch. You should wait for it to die before planting, this way you dont cut any green plants off that you have applied chemical to. The chemical has to move into the root system from the green and that takes a couple days. I usually wait at least three days. 

Most importantly is the second application if you are doing warm season grass. This application of chemical after planting will consist of journey or plateau if prairie and simazine or atrazine if switch grass. If you do not apply one of these chemicals to hold off any new growth. All of your work is for naght. Unless you want to mow it every two weeks all summer. 

You never said what you were planting, but I assume since you are no tilling and on this forum, that is what you are doing. 

With that second chemical application, you can add glyphosate if needed to kill any new weed growth. 

Good luck with your planting.


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## crosswind (Sep 1, 2004)

orion said:


> If you are no-tilling in a NWSG like prairie or switch. You should wait for it to die before planting, this way you dont cut any green plants off that you have applied chemical to. The chemical has to move into the root system from the green and that takes a couple days. I usually wait at least three days.
> 
> Most importantly is the second application if you are doing warm season grass. This application of chemical after planting will consist of journey or plateau if prairie and simazine or atrazine if switch grass. If you do not apply one of these chemicals to hold off any new growth. All of your work is for naght. Unless you want to mow it every two weeks all summer.
> 
> ...


Orion, I have did some research on the journey and it said that it could be applied after the NWSG started growing. Any experience with this process??????
Also you mentoned above about adding glyphosate, what is it ? where do I get it? and what does it do? Thanks.


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## Bear in the Woods (Nov 9, 2005)

Crosswind, 
Glyphosate is the active ingredient of "Round-up".

As for planting directly after spraying, yes it can be done but it is best to wait 72 hrs and then plant. If the spray does not get absorbed and transferred to the weed root system, you are wasting your money. 

If you are a weekend warrior, spray it Friday night and plant on Sunday at noon. That gets you about 36 hours. Also spraying at later part of the day allows for the weed to soak up the spray and take it to the root better. And if the weather is warm (75 degrees plus) that helps tremendously too!

Also make sure you use at least 1 quart of glyphosate to the acre and better yet use 2 quarts to the acre if the weeds are thick. 

I use ammonium sulfate to help "smoke" the weeds along with some surfactant too! 

My spray rig is a 50 gallon tank, with a 3.5 hp briggs powering the roller pump. 10 ft boom all in the back of my 3010 Mule. Makes the suspension work a bit at full load .


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## crosswind (Sep 1, 2004)

Bear in the Woods said:


> Crosswind,
> Glyphosate is the active ingredient of "Round-up".
> 
> As for planting directly after spraying, yes it can be done but it is best to wait 72 hrs and then plant. If the spray does not get absorbed and transferred to the weed root system, you are wasting your money.
> ...


 Bear, correct me if Im wrong, are you saying to add some roundup to the Journey before spraying. 
I have already planted my seed (NWSG)and it is starting to come up, if that helps any.I sprayed round up a week prior to planting.Last year it was planted in wheat and soy beans. Thanks for the advice.


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## Brown duck (Dec 16, 2005)

crosswind said:


> Bear, correct me if Im wrong, are you saying to add some roundup to the Journey before spraying.
> I have already planted my seed (NWSG)and it is starting to come up, if that helps any.I sprayed round up a week prior to planting.Last year it was planted in wheat and soy beans. Thanks for the advice.



NOOOO! Journey is essentially a mixture of imazapic and glyphosate - glyphosate, the active ingredient in Roundup, will kill just about anything green. Only use Journey as a pre-emergent. Imazapic itself, usually marketed as Plateau or Panoramic, is safe to use over most native warm season grasses, except switcgrass - it is susceptible. 

If your grasses are already coming up, use straight imazapic, unless its switch, then you'll have to use something else or hope for the best without any additional herbicides.


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## Bear Creek (Feb 9, 2003)

Hi Scott,

Brown Duck has it right on. Don't spray the Journey on your NWSG field if its already growing you'll kill it with the round-up that's already in the Journey. Try and find some Plateau if you have a weed problem. Its the only thing you can spray on NWSG. Otherwise you have to fire up the mower and mow it all summer!! Good Luck.

BC


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## crosswind (Sep 1, 2004)

Bear Creek said:


> Hi Scott,
> 
> Brown Duck has it right on. Don't spray the Journey on your NWSG field if its already growing you'll kill it with the round-up that's already in the Journey. Try and find some Plateau if you have a weed problem. Its the only thing you can spray on NWSG. Otherwise you have to fire up the mower and mow it all summer!! Good Luck.
> 
> BC


Mine is coming up fairly well, but now the weeds are coming also.I am having troubles finding Plateau. What about 2-4-D.?????


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## Bear Creek (Feb 9, 2003)

crosswind said:


> Mine is coming up fairly well, but now the weeds are coming also.I am having troubles finding Plateau. What about 2-4-D.?????


2-4-D will kill your broadleaf weeds but if you have any forbes or wildflowers in the NWSG it will kill them as well. If it were me and you have a really bad braodleaf problem I guess I might try the 2-4-D. You could always re-plant the forbes next year. Look for a product with this active ingredient "Imazapic" That's what's in Plateau. Do a search on the web. Someone is make this product again but it may not be called Plateau anymore. If you can't find that your only option is to mow if the weeds are really bad. I know your trying to use this as a training grounds but if the weeds are out of control you might loose your grasses as they will get choked out by the weeds later this summer. Good luck.

BC


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## orion (Apr 8, 2002)

Sorry I missed out on most of this, I have been planting everyday the weather lets me. You have most of the bases covered here with the other posters. Journey was built due to the fact that peanut farmers were using plateau off label. BASF then made Plateau unavailable to the general public, only allowing government agencies to buy it. Those of us planting bunches of prairies were left out in the cold. Hence the release of Journey- Plateau with glyphosate in it. This made it worthless to the off label farmers. If you really have a weed problem with your established prairie you can apply Journey in early may before the prairie starts to grow and not hurt your forbs much. I usually apply Journey or Plateau (in govt. work) about 7 days after planting to keep everything else at bay through the summer. This is only after a hard burn down with glyphosate either the prior fall or early spring. I usually refer to glyphosate instead of Round-Up, I hardly ever use round up anymore for price alone. As long as it contains 41% glyphosate it is the same animal. 

As for having an established prairie with weeds...... If the forbs and grasses are doing well they will outcompete the weeds in a couple years. We actually strive for this diversity in a prairie after couple years by burning or discing to bring these "weeds" back. As was said to me years ago by the USFWS head biologist when inspecting a prairie- "Whats a weed other than symantics"? This was good advice. As long as the prairie has established dont worry about the "weeds", they wont be there long.


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## dugal (Aug 17, 2006)

Orion I planted my grasses last spring (no forbs but I did mix in some Canada wild rye as cover). Right now it looks really good to me at least. I am just finishing up mowing to 12 inches or so to cut off the tops of a few weeds and the rye. The NWSG are just getting to that level now and seem to be filling in the holes. A few areas have a higher concentration of weeds like goldenrod, bedstraw and a couple more of the usual suspects but I think the grass is outcompeting them all. I was thinking of one more application of 2-4 D but should I hold off and let the grasses do their thing?

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=89994

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=89995


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## orion (Apr 8, 2002)

dugal said:


> Orion I planted my grasses last spring (no forbs but I did mix in some Canada wild rye as cover). Right now it looks really good to me at least. I am just finishing up mowing to 12 inches or so to cut off the tops of a few weeds and the rye. The NWSG are just getting to that level now and seem to be filling in the holes. A few areas have a higher concentration of weeds like goldenrod, bedstraw and a couple more of the usual suspects but I think the grass is outcompeting them all. I was thinking of one more application of 2-4 D but should I hold off and let the grasses do their thing?
> 
> http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=89994
> 
> http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=89995


Leave it alone and tell me what you think in August-


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## dugal (Aug 17, 2006)

Thanks for the reply. Do you have any prairie plantings anywhere near Livingston County that I could go look at? I've seen a couple in Ann Arbor but I would like to see some more.


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## orion (Apr 8, 2002)

I dont have any that far south. You may want to contact the PF guys in Livingston county. If you get up this way, I can show you a bunch in various years of growth.


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## wimedalo (Jan 4, 2008)

Orion,
I planted switch grass for the first time this year (first week of May) after spraying with glyophoaste @2 qt/A, there are so many grasses in the seed bank I'll be surprised if the switch will even get a toe-hold this year.. I may just bag the project this year and try to exhaust the seed bank more before I attempt to establish a NWSG again. Is there a spray material safe for switch that will zap the cool season stuff?


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## dugal (Aug 17, 2006)

I thought the same but in my 2nd year, the switch is very healthy. A few Big Blues are growing in it and a little wild rye but it seems that anything shorter than those 3 didnt make it much past germination except around the edges where the sun makes it down to the soil.


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## bradym54 (Oct 8, 2008)

if you got round-up ready seed you can plant then spray whenever. but if not then spray before, and for roundup it only can take less than 3 hours to kill the plant, so there is no need to wait 2 days to plant when u can spray in morning and plant in mid afternoon. saves alota time.


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