# Visited by a CO today



## beaglemaster (Sep 12, 2013)

Just had a conversation but it felt like an interrogation with our local CO in my garage. After I explained to him when I got the deer and he cut the tag off to examine the date, then he started looking at everything in my garage. I walked out talking to him but he stayed inside the garage looking around. Made me feel kinda weird like I had something illegal in there ! The season's been tough enough and now at its end I get to remember this. i know they are cops and look for suspicious stuff but staying in my garage after I've walked out to his truck is a little creepy.


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## monkman (Aug 22, 2013)

Never knew a CO could come into your garage and look around....unless someone snitch on you. I know they can check you while afield and in your truck but coming to your place?? :sad:


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## Anish (Mar 6, 2009)

That's kinda what I was thinking when I was reading this.


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## rkroberts (Jun 4, 2012)

I would have told him to get lost!!! 


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Was the garage door open and the deer was visible from the street ? If not, I would say that one of your neighbors reported you as possibly having an illegal deer.

L & O


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## SNAPPY (Feb 13, 2004)

Stay honest and legal and there's no worries.

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## Minibouncer (Aug 4, 2010)

They are only allowed in/on your property with a warrant, crime in progress, or "open door with crime in view". Other than that feel free to kick his butt out. Not all law enforcement are the good guys.


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## walleyenut3214 (Feb 27, 2012)

I'm not sure but I believe if they have a report of illegal activity they don't need a warrant unlike cops because I know for a fact they can enter your property if a violation is believed to be committed.


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## casscityalum (Aug 27, 2007)

walleyenut3214 said:


> I'm not sure but I believe if they have a report of illegal activity they don't need a warrant unlike cops because I know for a fact they can enter your property if a violation is believed to be committed.


This. They have more rights than your aaverage leo. 

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## hunting man (Mar 2, 2005)

What was his name? They can look around if you had let him in the garage. Cant just walk in if the door is closed. They can look around your property without a warrant but cant check the house and garage unless you let them or the doors are wide open.


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## djd (Feb 21, 2008)

SNAPPY said:


> Stay honest and legal and there's no worries.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I405 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Simple and true. I have bought a non-resident $138 buck tag for 15 years (price has gone up). Ive had very expensive tag soup over the years, but I hunt legal with a clear conscience.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

beaglemaster said:


> Just had a conversation but it felt like an interrogation with our local CO in my garage..


That's because he wasn't there for a social visit! He was there conducting an investigation. You can rest assured it was not random.

Hopefully for your sake, the "conversation" put to rest any concerns that may have been brought to his attention. If they did not, I would expect another visit.


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## cataway (Nov 26, 2010)

they can open and walk into a ice fishing shanty......right ?


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## Bomba (Jul 26, 2005)

rkroberts said:


> I would have told him to get lost!!!
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


 
Good luck with that!:lol:


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## hook'em master (Jun 25, 2009)

Swamp Monster said:


> That's because he wasn't there for a social visit! He was there conducting an investigation. You can rest assured it was not random.
> 
> Hopefully for your sake, the "conversation" put to rest any concerns that may have been brought to his attention. If they did not, I would expect another visit.



It's the last day of firearm season on the Holiday Weekend. He didn't stop in to see how your turkey dinner was.
Secondly with any law official why the hell did you walk away from his presence. You never allow any law official of any type open opportunity to access of your property. Never have that much trust in a law official they can be shady as hell just like the next guy. You hear it all the time these days in 8/10 cases the decisions made in the case where of Discretion of Enforcement Officers.

Good Luck


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## limige (Sep 2, 2005)

Swamp Monster said:


> That's because he wasn't there for a social visit! He was there conducting an investigation. You can rest assured it was not random.
> 
> Hopefully for your sake, the "conversation" put to rest any concerns that may have been brought to his attention. If they did not, I would expect another visit.


Agreed.

Visits to private property are rarely a routine thing. Someone gave him reason to believe something was up so he was checking it out.


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## Ricky Missum (Jan 10, 2003)

Had um come right in the shanty and gone thru everything!!! Have asked me if they could take a look in the truck too!! Had he asked you to give him a hand to load your "deer" into his "truck" that could have gotten a little creepy!! But, the fact you wanted to end his visit(by walking out of your garage) and he didn't follow you shouldn't be creepy, he just hadn't finished his investagation!!! And of course, when you add all the costs involved with harvesting any game, it's always very expensive!!


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

Swamp Monster said:


> That's because he wasn't there for a social visit! He was there conducting an investigation. *You can rest assured it was not random.*
> 
> Hopefully for your sake, the "conversation" put to rest any concerns that may have been brought to his attention. If they did not, I would expect another visit.


Well..........when one of the CO's that works the area I hunt used to live right in town about 4 miles from where I hunt he would "randomly" stop by on his way home. Usually once during late October. First thing he would do is ask if we killed anything, then look at the buck pole. This visit was usually a day time visit and conversation would proceed. We would BS about violations he had encountered and about some bucks he had seen while on patrol.

But one thing we could count on would be a visit from him every November 15 as he returned home from a day of patrolling. Usually there would be at least one deer hanging on the pole, which he would look at, and check the tag. 

He no longer lives in town and I haven't had him stop by during the season since then. I have had a conversation with him in the post season a few times. We just both happened to be in the same area at the same time.

CO's should be your friend......unless your a violator.


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## sjk984 (Jan 4, 2010)

beaglemaster said:


> Just had a conversation but it felt like an interrogation with our local CO in my garage. After I explained to him when I got the deer and he cut the tag off to examine the date, then he started looking at everything in my garage. I walked out talking to him but he stayed inside the garage looking around. Made me feel kinda weird like I had something illegal in there ! The season's been tough enough and now at its end I get to remember this. i know they are cops and look for suspicious stuff but staying in my garage after I've walked out to his truck is a little creepy.


 
did he say what prompted the visit?
was the door open?


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Phew, landed my black sound suppressed helicopter just in time to enjoy this thread. 


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## sullyxlh (Oct 28, 2004)

casscityalum said:


> This. They have more rights than your aaverage leo.


Not necessarily 
They both need PC or RAS
without that neither can do much.


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## kozal01 (Oct 11, 2010)

My encounters with CO's have always been pleasant, mostly just checking tags and such with a bit of small talk. If you're not doing anything illegal than there isn't much to worry about IMO. I like when they stop out to the state land I hunt, some people out there need to see the law around once and a while so they mind their P's and Q's a bit more. 


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## bersh (Dec 9, 2003)

Minibouncer said:


> They are only allowed in/on your property with a warrant, crime in progress, or "open door with crime in view". Other than that feel free to kick his butt out. Not all law enforcement are the good guys.


Unfortunately, not true. They don't need a warrant or an excuse.

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## sjk984 (Jan 4, 2010)

I would also add that all my visits with c.o's have been good. Including dead short

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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

bucksnbows said:


> Well..........when one of the CO's that works the area I hunt used to live right in town about 4 miles from where I hunt he would "randomly" stop by on his way home. Usually once during late October. First thing he would do is ask if we killed anything, then look at the buck pole. This visit was usually a day time visit and conversation would proceed. We would BS about violations he had encountered and about some bucks he had seen while on patrol.
> 
> But one thing we could count on would be a visit from him every November 15 as he returned home from a day of patrolling. Usually there would be at least one deer hanging on the pole, which he would look at, and check the tag.
> 
> ...


I would argue it was not random at all. He may not have been conducting an investigation, but he was certainly building a rapport with some local hunters....often a benefit to anyone in law enforcement.

I also agree, they should be your friend. Wish we had more of them!


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## YOTEANTIDOTE (Dec 25, 2005)

Bersh,

Please post a link to them not needing a warrant?
And even if your not hiding anything, you should never wave your rights and consent to a search!!!


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

YOTEANTIDOTE said:


> Bersh,
> 
> Please post a link to them not needing a warrant?
> And even if your not hiding anything, you should never wave your rights and consent to a search!!!


That's right!
NEVER EVER CONSENT TO A SEARCH.. for any reason, at any time, in any place.
Law enforcement are NEVER there to help you.. They are NEVER trying to make it "easy on you".. 

YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BY REFUSING AND EVERYTHING TO GAIN. 
Should I say that again? Let me say that a different way...
You have everything to lose by consenting and nothing to lose by refusing.

I don't care what branch or department of government they come from.. They MUST ABSOLUTELY have a warrant to legally search your property unless they see the crime or have reason to believe someone is in danger.. 
They are specially trained to make you think that is NOT the case but it absolutely is the case. 

It doesn't matter that the door was open to the garage.. they can not enter without your permission and they certainly can not look around (read: Execute a search) without your permission or a warrant. 
However, inviting them in is the same as giving them consent.. NEVER let a law enforcement officer into your home for any reason.


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## bowhunter42 (Aug 22, 2012)

Just tell him your deaf and trespassers will be shot on site. It normally works. 
You shouldn't have let him in, make them get a warrant in the future

sent from the....


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## johnhunter247 (Mar 12, 2011)

Should have called the police and got him for trespassing.:lol::lol::lol:


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## bersh (Dec 9, 2003)

YOTEANTIDOTE said:


> Bersh,
> 
> Please post a link to them not needing a warrant?
> And even if your not hiding anything, you should never wave your rights and consent to a search!!!


If I had time I'd surf and try to find a link. My comment was based on a conversation with CO about this very issue and I was a bit shocked at how much freedom/leeway they have in conducting searches. There are so many loopholes the need for a warrant is a joke regardless. 

What I don't know is if you refuse what happens next. I have a feeling that any minor things that would normally be overlooked wouldn't be so minor anymore, but I can't say that for sure.

Editing to add that there is a difference between search a dwelling and stomping through your 40 on Nov 15. The later falls under something called the open field doctrine (or similar).


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## steve myers (Dec 29, 2000)

bersh said:


> If I had time I'd surf and try to find a link. My comment was based on a conversation with CO about this very issue and I was a bit shocked at how much freedom/leeway they have in conducting searches. There are so many loopholes the need for a warrant is a joke regardless.
> 
> What I don't know is if you refuse what happens next. I have a feeling that any minor things that would normally be overlooked wouldn't be so minor anymore, but I can't say that for sure.


Your right they can go in your garage house anywhere they want I know an Ed friend got checked and went everywhere looking for something illegal .


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

steve myers said:


> Your right they can go in your garage house anywhere they want I know an Ed friend got checked and went everywhere looking for something illegal .


It is a sad state in the USA that our educational system has gotten so bad that people actually believe this kind of garbage.

There is no law enforcement agency in the USA that has the authority to legally search your home without consent or a warrant. 

Your "friend" got searched because he didn't have the education to tell them NO...


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## Ken (Dec 6, 2000)

That's why a garage has a nice big roller door on it. And its much warmer to butcher with the door down. A no trespassing sign on the driveway works for them and the Mormons. If they come to the house and knock they can be informed that they can see your deer as soon as you see their search warrant. They won't bother during deer season.


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## TVCJohn (Nov 30, 2005)

Murphy said:


> That's right!
> NEVER EVER CONSENT TO A SEARCH.. for any reason, at any time, in any place.
> Law enforcement are NEVER there to help you.. They are NEVER trying to make it "easy on you"..
> 
> ...



Don't bet on that as an absolute....you might lose.

*Plain view doctrine*

The plain view doctrine allows an officer to seize &#8211; without a warrant - evidence and contraband found in plain view during a lawful observation. This doctrine is also regularly used by TSA Federal Government Officers while screening persons and property at U.S. airports.



For the plain view doctrine to apply for discoveries, the three-prong _Horton_ test requires:


the officer to be lawfully present at the place where the evidence can be plainly viewed,
the officer to have a lawful right of access to the object, and
the incriminating character of the object to be &#8220;immediately apparent.&#8221;
In order for the officer to seize the item, the officer must have probable cause to believe the item is evidence of a crime or is contraband.


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## beaglemaster (Sep 12, 2013)

Guys ! Guys ! Guys ! you're freakin me out! I go and finally get a deer and now I'm a criminal ! I let him in the garage because I didn't do anything wrong ! I just didn't like the way he kept looking around the inside of my garage. 
I had a visit from another CO years ago because I commented at a Christmas party that we had 4 does hanging in the garage because their hides had frozen on. Next day I had a visit.
Oh yeah and I'm not sure why anyone would report me ? I've had nothing to bragg about ! But I think I'm being followed...........guess who drove by my truck tonight ?


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

TVCJohn said:


> Don't bet on that as an absolute....you might lose.
> 
> *Plain view doctrine*
> 
> ...



I absolutely agree 100% on that.. But a deer hanging in someone's garage is not a reason to believe a crime has been committed.. Nor is a nosy neighbors complaint. And, per the supreme court, nor is your refusal to allow a search.
In fact, all three of the Horton test criteria are excellent protections! (I didn't know it was called a Horton test)..

If an officer walks up to your home and looks in the window and see's a bag of flour sitting in a zip lock back on your kitchen table, that is also 1)NOT probable cause and 2)already an illegal search I think.

Most people are surprised to find out how well "we the people" are protected against the police.. And how little power the police actually have. 
The problem is that most people are uneducated in such matters and get very intimidated by the police.. This is why they call in reinforcements and a bunch of them show up at once.. Its very intimidating to see 5 cops, lights blinking, guns, uniforms, etc... but one cop or two hundred makes no difference at all...

Stand your ground... You have NOTHING to lose and EVERYTHING to gain.
Even if they find something illegal, YOUR REFUSAL to let them search will absolutely NOT make any difference and could actually save your butt.


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## sjk984 (Jan 4, 2010)

you sir are a marked man:evilsmile :tsk::nono:

call him and ask him what the scoop is and don't worry unless you have something to worry about


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

beaglemaster said:


> Guys ! Guys ! Guys ! you're freakin me out! I go and finally get a deer and now I'm a criminal ! I let him in the garage because I didn't do anything wrong ! I just didn't like the way he kept looking around the inside of my garage.


HAHAHAHA.. 

Don't mean to freak you out but its good to have these conversations..
You obviously didn't do anything wrong, but you didn't do it right either...

And just for your own info, when you let him into your garage, he could have arrested and charged you with ANY CRIME that he could have come up with if he saw something out of place.

Lets say you had a friend come over and a marijuana joint fell out of his pocket or he left it on your work bench and it fell on the floor were you didn't see it or even know your friend smoked pot... Or it just blew in from the street... whatever.. He could have arrested you for it ! 

Now, lets say you refused any search and forced him to get a warrant because he wanted to inspect your deer.. While there executing the warrant, if he found that joint, he could take it but you would be off the hook because the warrant will specify EXACTLY what they were looking for and they can't hold anything else against you if its not within the scope of the warrant.

When civilians consent to searches, law enforcement STOPS respecting them because they know the civilian is uneducated..
When a civilian exercises their rights, law enforcement all of a sudden follows every rule and respects all your rights.


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## Boardman Brookies (Dec 20, 2007)

Did you ask him why he was there? That seems like the first thing I would do.


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## Anish (Mar 6, 2009)

Boardman Brookies said:


> Did you ask him why he was there? That seems like the first thing I would do.


 
You bet!


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## Mike4282 (Jul 25, 2010)

Your right protect and serve actually means target and screw over for no reason. I guess anarchy would be best. I think we disagree on this one.

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## davi5982 (Mar 8, 2010)

Wow, some great ideas here from what I am sure are Harvard graduates.

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## TheCrawdad (May 9, 2009)

davi5982 said:


> Wow, some great ideas here from what I am sure are Harvard graduates.
> 
> Sent from my EVO using Ohub Campfire mobile app


 :lol::lol::lol:


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## malainse (Sep 2, 2002)

davi5982 said:


> Wow, some great ideas here from what I am sure are Harvard graduates.
> 
> Sent from my EVO using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Be nice... It was Acme Online Law Degree in 10 days.


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## john warren (Jan 25, 2005)

look up the laws on where the dnr can go and you will see he was within his rights. you will actually be amaised at their power to go places, and will most likely see the reason behind it. with that being said they are usually very carefull about using those powers without a reason. my guess is someone called you in or they saw the deer and were just making a normal check.

if you read the law inforcement reports on the dnr web site you will be amaized at how many untaged deer they find that way. they also check proccesors and find tons of violations. 
instead of being upset, i'd be glad he was on the lookout for people trying to steal our deer from us by cheating the system.


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## maddiedog (Nov 21, 2008)

Wow this stuff cracks me up. Every encounter I've had with co has been great. Usually ended with a laugh and handshake. I would absolutely let him in the garage with out any hesitation.

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## KEVING12 (Jan 23, 2013)

casscityalum said:


> This. They have more rights than your aaverage leo.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R760X using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Yea they have more power than all other law enforcement and dont need warrants to search something just suspicion of doing wrong.


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## cjpenny89 (Sep 12, 2006)

It is very true ignorance on our part lets the law run right over us and they intimidate us so we let them run all over us. I had nothing to hide when the co stopped and harassed my wife then went for a walk in the woods because he saw us out there in our orange. he walked back and startled us to say the least. he walked up to us checked our tags checked to make sure we had the correct amount of ammo in our guns. 
this was a few years ago when you couldn't bait and I still had a corn feeder out he said lets go look at this corn feeder is it yours? I said yep you know you can't bait I said yep that is why its empty and the battery isn't in it. we walk up to it the grass around it is 2' high I said if I was using this the grass would be all knocked down. he walked up to it pushed it over and popped the lid and said yep no corn maybe you should take it down so people don't think your baiting. ding ding ding neighbor called me in because he saw it. he then walked up to the house with us and saw a set of antlers hanging outside no tag my fault but I didn't want to loose the tag while I was letting the weather clean up the European mount, he didn't give me to much trouble when I provided the tag from the garage he would have followed me in the garage if I didn't have it on a nail just inside the door. nothing to hide but he made me feel about 2" tall. this was like 3pm and he told me he had 25 more baiting calls to check out and would not get to them all. what made me mad was I said well great want to check one out I can show you from our property line he said no I don't have time today and left? 
I understand why he stopped but his demeanor left a bad impression.


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## walleyenut3214 (Feb 27, 2012)

Yes I have had them unzip my shanty and stick his head in and ask if I had any fish while I ice fished the saginaw river a few years ago rode up on his quad.


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## sullyxlh (Oct 28, 2004)

KEVING12 said:


> Yea they have more power than all other law enforcement.


No they do not.
They must abide by the same legal standards as any other LEO in this state.


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## standsetter (Dec 2, 2007)

KEVING12 said:


> Yea they have more power than all other law enforcement and dont need warrants to search something just suspicion of doing wrong.


I think responsibility is a better description than power is. They have the same responsibility/ability a State Police officer has in addition to their primary responsibility for enforcing state game laws.

We can't expect our police to be blind or perfect. Just to be responsible and accountable to the law for their actions the same as we are. 

No citizen should ever be subjected to criticism or suspicion simply because they choose to filter or validate authority before welcoming it into their home.

I'm waiting for the thread where someone's sanctuary or scent free storage containers were subjected to a nothing to hide, nothing to fear look see. Something tells me a lot of :rant: would promptly ensue. :lol:


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## kisherfisher (Apr 6, 2008)

maddiedog said:


> Wow this stuff cracks me up. Every encounter I've had with co has been great. Usually ended with a laugh and handshake. I would absolutely let him in the garage with out any hesitation.
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


 Absolutely ! These reponses give you just a peek of what they , and other LEOs deal with on a dailey basis. Gotta love the internet, TV, educated attorneys.:lol:


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

Lessons on why even honest citizens who are innocent and telling the truth may end up getting into deep trouble by volunteering even innocent, truthful information. 

[youtube]6wXkI4t7nuc[/youtube]


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## beaglemaster (Sep 12, 2013)

We ended with a handshake and pleasant goodbye but I was just creeped out by the way he looked around my garage. Wasn't expecting that. And it was weird he drove by my truck later. 
Now i'm making sure all my ducks are in order and was wondering about something. Our road ditches are a favorite drop off spots for jerks that do their own deer. If my dogs get into them and drag them all over the yard, should i be concerned ?


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## Jimmer Negamanee (Oct 31, 2013)

Sounds like he was doing his job... good for him need more like him. 

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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

beaglemaster said:


> We ended with a handshake and pleasant goodbye but I was just creeped out by the way he looked around my garage. Wasn't expecting that. And it was weird he drove by my truck later.
> Now i'm making sure all my ducks are in order and was wondering about something. Our road ditches are a favorite drop off spots for jerks that do their own deer. If my dogs get into them and drag them all over the yard, should i be concerned ?


Relax....you did nothing wrong...ended with a handshake....half these guys forgot their tin foil hats and medications.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

Yup. Glad to see them checking things and making sure people are on the up and up.

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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

bioactive said:


> Lessons on why even honest citizens who are innocent and telling the truth may end up getting into deep trouble by volunteering even innocent, truthful information.
> 
> [youtube]6wXkI4t7nuc[/youtube]


Yep, my Father in Law is a defense attorney, and says talking to LEO is the worst possible thing you can do, even if you're 100% innocent. And some of his best friends a Prosecuting Attorney. and Circuit Court Judge agrees:lol:

Kinda sad, if you think about it?


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

davi5982 said:


> Wow, some great ideas here from what I am sure are Harvard graduates.


Not Harvard... 
But the information is hidden quite well. They put it where no one will ever find it these days... In books...

Think of the chaos that would ensue if they put the info in a video game!


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## hawgeye (Mar 3, 2011)

dead short said:


> Phew, landed my black sound suppressed helicopter just in time to enjoy this thread.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Hahaha busted!!

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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

Bloodrunner said:


> Yep, my Father in Law is a defense attorney, and says talking to LEO is the worst possible thing you can do, even if you're 100% innocent. And some of his best friends a Prosecuting Attorney. and Circuit Court Judge agrees:lol:
> 
> Kinda sad, if you think about it?


the F.I.L.....I can understand that, he's a defense attorney....the rest..I call BS
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kisherfisher (Apr 6, 2008)

bioactive said:


> Lessons on why even honest citizens who are innocent and telling the truth may end up getting into deep trouble by volunteering even innocent, truthful information.
> 
> [youtube]6wXkI4t7nuc[/youtube]


So are all the inmates in Jackson, just ask them, they would never lie, they are all innocent too.


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

2PawsRiver said:


> the F.I.L.....I can understand that, he's a defense attorney....the rest..I call BS
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL! Whatever dude, Judges, and Prosecutors are real people too, they do the same things everyone else does, I could tell you a few Christmas Party stories


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

We used to get a visit from the local CO back in the mid 60's a couple times a week during the first week of season. He would check out the deer and shot the bull and many times if he had time he would stay for dinner with out being asked. We did not care and he always told my uncle that he had his eye on him. He kind of liked my uncle and aunt. When he went in the house he made himself right at home almost as if he lived there and no one said a thing to him


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## badger (Mar 9, 2005)

Look up the "open field doctrine". I have been in law enforcement for over 20 years and this one bugs even me. Even though it has been upheld by the highest courts, it just screams 4th amendment violation to me personally. Something everyone should be aware of.


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## Muskegonbow (Dec 31, 2006)

I have a bunch of small racks nailed up in my garage, most have tags with them some got lost. Should I be concerned if a co ever paid me a visit?


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

badger said:


> Look up the "open field doctrine". I have been in law enforcement for over 20 years and this one bugs even me. Even though it has been upheld by the highest courts, it just screams 4th amendment violation to me personally. Something everyone should be aware of.


I'm not seeing the big alarm here.... Fill me in.. 
The way I read it, it says they can't search your home or the area surrounding it but that if you have lots and lots of land and there's a bunch over the hill or behind the forest (you get the idea), that such land is not really part of your "private area".. 

It is vague but seems to me that if you have under 40 acres, no worries.

Or am I mistaken somehow?


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## badger (Mar 9, 2005)

Murphy said:


> I'm not seeing the big alarm here.... Fill me in..
> The way I read it, it says they can't search your home or the area surrounding it but that if you have lots and lots of land and there's a bunch over the hill or behind the forest (you get the idea), that such land is not really part of your "private area"..
> 
> It is vague but seems to me that if you have under 40 acres, no worries.
> ...


 
Why should the government be able to come onto your private property at all? And the amount of acreage has nothing to do with it. It's anything outside the curtilage of your house - that's immediate area "where intimate activities occur"

Again, there is those that say "if you are doing nothing wrong, then why worry?" But I just feel that if it is your land, there should at least be some probable cause if not a warrant to enter upon those lands.


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## Zac (Dec 11, 2007)

Murphy said:


> Now, lets say you refused any search and forced him to get a warrant because he wanted to inspect your deer.. *While there executing the warrant, if he found that joint, he could take it but you would be off the hook because the warrant will specify EXACTLY what they were looking for and they can't hold anything else against you if its not within the scope of the warrant.*


This is bad advice. The plain view exception applies when executing a warrant (search or arrest). While, there is a constitutional requirement that warrants be particular, if the officer can satisfy the elements of the plain view doctrine no warrant is required for things beyond the warrant. And, in your hypothetical the officer would be able satisfy the elements, most importantly the first element that the officer observes the object from a lawful vantage point. Once a valid warrant is issued/executed, the officer could legally be in the garage and thus if he saw a joint, he could seize it and hold the property owner liable. The officer would still have to meet the other elements of the plain view doctrine. It would be arguable that it was readily apparent that it was weed and not tobacco. He could however kneel down and smell it without touching it and it would be legal. 

And, without getting too off in the weeds about this there are definitely exceptions to this plain view doctrine. For example, if the warrant is to search for a deer, the officer cannot go through things that are not big enough to hold the deer such as drawers of a tool box etc.

Just trying to point this out to educate people. The vast majority of people have no idea about their 4th amendment rights.


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## Red Ark (Aug 22, 2011)

I really feel sorry for a lot of you guys on this site. How sad must your life be to worried or upset if a CO is on your property. 

I'm in law enforcement and have a buddy who is a CO. He will stop by my house while on duty and I love it. I unlike a lot of you have nothing to hide. If I had a deer hanging in plain view to a CO I feel its their job to check that it was taken legally. I hate poachers and others that destroy our resources. We need more CO's. 

Getting an opportunity to meet and talk to a CO is a chance to express concerns of illegal activity, ask legal questions or make a new contact. 

I love meeting guys from this site in the field or on the water. I don't care if they are a teacher, plumber, engineer or stay at home dad. We all have a common goal to enjoy and preserve are natural resources. If a CO or law enforcement officer checks someone in their garage awesome, thanks for doing your job. 



Sent from my SPH-L710 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## OtsegoCo.Hunter (Nov 28, 2013)

The green truck boys are spread pretty thin these days...Not thin enough..It's a money thing like anything else...that officer needs a talking too...or go bust some a hole for cutting green oaks on state land!


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## Skibum (Oct 3, 2000)

I'd expect him to be paying attention. That's his job. I wish the state would double the number of CO's.


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## bheary (Dec 29, 2010)

Well, there's ten minutes of my life I won't get back.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## RMH (Jan 17, 2009)

2PawsRiver said:


> the F.I.L.....I can understand that, he's a defense attorney....the rest..I call BS
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Bloodrunner said:


> LOL! Whatever dude, Judges, and Prosecutors are real people too, they do the same things everyone else does, I could tell you a few Christmas Party stories


Bloodrunner, this guy is a perfect example of why "keeping quiet" is the thing to do.....:lol:


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## mbatson (Oct 10, 2010)

It's happend to me before, just be honest with the guy and tell him what he wants go know. 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## danner (Jan 17, 2012)

Mike4282 said:


> Your right protect and serve actually means target and screw over for no reason.


Stop spreading misinformation. "Protect and serve" is nothing but govt propaganda. SCOTUS has ruled many many many times that law enforcement has ZERO responsibility to protect anyone. YOU are 100% responsible for yourself 100% of the time, period. Google "supreme Court police have no responsibility to protect" http://bit.ly/18gKa5U



> I guess anarchy would be best.


The rest of your argument is a straw man.


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## danner (Jan 17, 2012)

I would love for someone to post the statute that grants the power to violate the 4A to CO's.


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## shoelessjoe (Dec 13, 2012)

beaglemaster said:


> Just had a conversation but it felt like an interrogation with our local CO in my garage. After I explained to him when I got the deer and he cut the tag off to examine the date, then he started looking at everything in my garage. I walked out talking to him but he stayed inside the garage looking around. Made me feel kinda weird like I had something illegal in there ! The season's been tough enough and now at its end I get to remember this. i know they are cops and look for suspicious stuff but staying in my garage after I've walked out to his truck is a little creepy.


 Do you live in a subdivision? What was his reasoning for showing up at your garage in the first place? Quite a bit not being said here IMO. I have a CO that shows up at my place quite a bit, but he is off duty and ready to hunt. LOL! Some info on the why's, and how comes, and where you live (sub or rural) would help. Remember they (CO's) usually deal with the lower forms of so-called hunters day in and day out, so his suspicious actions come with the job, but it sounds like he told you "why" he was there in the first place but you haven't let on.


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

badger said:


> Why should the government be able to come onto your private property at all? And the amount of acreage has nothing to do with it. It's anything outside the curtilage of your house - that's immediate area "where intimate activities occur"
> 
> Again, there is those that say "if you are doing nothing wrong, then why worry?" But I just feel that if it is your land, there should at least be some probable cause if not a warrant to enter upon those lands.


I do agree with you about that... I think they should have solid probable cause as you do.. But to say it in a strange way, the strength of my opinion is directly proportionate to the level of intrusiveness..

From another perspective,, what are folks going to think when automated drones start zooming over your property taking high resolution photos?
They already do it with aircraft.. Where do you think all those mapquest photos come from? What happens when that 10 megapixel camera becomes a 10 gigapixel camera and can count the individual blades of grass?


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## shoelessjoe (Dec 13, 2012)

Murphy said:


> I do agree with you about that... I think they should have solid probable cause as you do.. But to say it in a strange way, the strength of my opinion is directly proportionate to the level of intrusiveness..
> 
> From another perspective,, what are folks going to think when automated drones start zooming over your property taking high resolution photos?
> They already do it with aircraft.. Where do you think all those mapquest photos come from? What happens when that 10 megapixel camera becomes a 10 gigapixel camera and can count the individual blades of grass?


 The airspace above my property, so I would inquire about obtaining the pics for my personal use for a price. Are they using Sats or fixed winged aircraft for "MapQuest"? That's a lot of gas and pricey labor..


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## TVCJohn (Nov 30, 2005)

Skibum said:


> I'd expect him to be paying attention. That's his job. * I wish the state would double the number of CO's*.



This maybe for another thread topic, but.....


I would like to see what I think are the many no value added "gotcha" laws/regs we have eliminated. Get rid of these "no value added" laws and we won't need all of the CO's everyone is wishing for.


I think they way to approach that is get a group(s) of hunters together and do a review on the current hunting regs, dissect it and streamline it. Then take it to Lansing. It would mean a loss of funds for the state they bring in thru gotcha laws but it would be good for the folks IMO. Might as well add the fishing regs in this too.


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

"Theres no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there arent enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

Bloodrunner said:


> "Theres no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there arent enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."


That might go over in a dictatorship but not in a democracy.. Doesn't work that way.

Most of our problems, when it comes to laws and regulations, is that the people making them are disconnected from the reality and don't know any better than what a few agenda biased people tell them.


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## Magnet (Mar 2, 2001)

Law Enforcement rarely prevents crimes. They merely investigate them after the fact and write the report. People need to protect themselves, law enforcement can't effectively protect the people. 

"To Protect and To Serve" is propaganda.


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## Minibouncer (Aug 4, 2010)

Red Ark said:


> I really feel sorry for a lot of you guys on this site. How sad must your life be to worried or upset if a CO is on your property.
> 
> I'm in law enforcement and have a buddy who is a CO. He will stop by my house while on duty and I love it. I unlike a lot of you have nothing to hide. If I had a deer hanging in plain view to a CO I feel its their job to check that it was taken legally. I hate poachers and others that destroy our resources. We need more CO's.
> 
> ...



It's not the problem of the CO being nice guy, it's the matter of the government overstepping their boundaries taking our civil rights away.... which has pretty much already happened.


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## PTPD2312 (Oct 19, 2004)

danner said:


> I would love for someone to post the statute that grants the power to violate the 4A to CO's.


While not necessarily granting power to violate here you go.

324 Natural Resources And Environmental Protection

324.1602 Department or officer; prosecution; search without warrant; private property; definition; common carrier not liable; issuance of warrant; seizures; probable cause.
Sec. 1602.

(1) The department, or an officer appointed by the department, may file a complaint and commence proceedings against any person for a violation of any of the laws or statutes described in section 1601, without the sanction of the prosecuting attorney of the county in which the proceedings are commenced. In such a case, the officer is not obliged to furnish security for costs. The department, or an officer appointed by the department, may appear for the people in any court of competent jurisdiction in any cases for violation of any of the statutes or laws described in section 1601, may prosecute the cases in the same manner and with the same authority as the prosecuting attorney of any county in which the proceedings are commenced, and may sign vouchers for the payment of jurors' or witnesses' fees in those cases in the same manner and with the same authority as prosecuting attorneys in criminal cases. Whenever an officer appointed by the department has probable cause to believe that any of the statutes or laws mentioned in section 1601 have been or are being violated by any particular person, the officer has the power to search, without warrant, any boat, conveyance, vehicle, automobile, fish box, fish basket, game bag, game coat, or any other receptacle or place, except dwellings or dwelling houses, or within the curtilage of any dwelling house, in which nets, hunting or fishing apparatuses or appliances, wild birds, wild animals, or fish may be possessed, kept, or carried by the person, and an officer appointed by the department may enter into or upon any private or public property for that purpose or for the purpose of patrolling, investigating, or examining when he or she has probable cause for believing that any of the statutes or laws described in section 1601 have been or are being violated on that property. The term private property as used in this part does not include dwellings or dwelling houses or that which is within the curtilage of any dwelling house. An officer appointed by the department shall at any and all times seize and take possession of any and all nets, hunting or fishing apparatuses or appliances, or other property, wild birds, wild animals, or fish, or any part or parts thereof, which have been caught, taken, killed, shipped, or had in possession or under control, at a time, in a manner, or for a purpose, contrary to any of the statutes or laws described in section 1601, and the seizure may be made without a warrant. A common carrier is not responsible for damages or otherwise to any owner, shipper, or consignee by reason of any such seizure. When a complaint is made on oath to any magistrate authorized to issue warrants in criminal cases that any wild birds, wild animals, or fish, any part or parts of wild birds, wild animals, or fish, or any nets, hunting or fishing apparatuses or appliances, or other property have been or are being killed, taken, caught, had in possession or under control, or shipped, contrary to the statutes or laws described in section 1601, and that the complainant believes the property to be stored, kept, or concealed in any particular house or place, the magistrate, if he or she is satisfied that there is probable cause for the belief, shall issue a warrant to search for the property. The warrant shall be directed to the department, or an officer appointed by the department, or to any other peace officer. All wild birds, wild animals, fish, nets, boats, fishing or hunting appliances or apparatuses, or automobiles or other property of any kind seized by an officer shall be turned over to the department to be held by the department subject to the order of the court as provided in this part.

(2) For the purposes of this part, probable cause or probable cause to believe is present on the part of a peace officer if there are facts that would induce any fair-minded person of average intelligence and judgment to believe that a law or statute had been violated or was being violated contrary to any of the statutes or laws described in section 1601.


History: Add. 1995, Act 60, Imd. Eff. May 24, 1995
Popular Name: Act 451
Popular Name: NREPA


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