# Think bow companies were screwing people before?



## outdoor_m_i_k_e

Check out Mathews new for 2011 "safari". . . . only $2100 MSRP

http://mathewsinc.com/mathews-bows-13312-44-ViewProduct-1521-324.asp


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## Crowhunter

You don't have to buy it .Bud


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## outdoor_m_i_k_e

ha. . I wont! I have a nice new perfectly good bow sitting here. Point is though, There are always people complaining about bow prices rising. Next, bow companies keep raising the prices. . What do people do? Buy them. . the prices are not going to get any lower. . 

Re-sale value on a bow is like resale on a Kia.


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## folpak

heck i dont even want to spend the 869 or whatever it costs for the passion bow my wife wants. this is craziness. it wasn't that many years ago when i bought the switchback for less than 700 when then next year model came out. I think I paid 650


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## sbooy42

Wow


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## DXT Deer Slayer

There is no way I would even consider it.


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## ESOX

The market will set the price, always has, always will. If no one wants to pay that and they need to get that because of production costs, they will quit making them.


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## thill

Crowhunter said:


> You don't have to buy it .Bud


 
Exactly what I was thinking!


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## outdoor_m_i_k_e

thill said:


> Exactly what I was thinking!


As said, I wont  It is a specialty bow made for african hunting. . . (i.e higher poundage limbs). . If I ever decide to go on an african safari, Ill call PSE and spend $100 on 80# limbs for my bow. . 

You would think they would have learned from their last "safari" bow they produced. . .


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## thill

outdoor_m_i_k_e said:


> As said, I wont  It is a specialty bow made for african hunting. . . (i.e higher poundage limbs). . If I ever decide to go on an african safari, Ill call PSE and spend $100 on 80# limbs for my bow. .
> 
> You would think they would have learned from their last "safari" bow they produced. . .


 
How on earth is mathews "screwing" anyone by offering a high end safari bow? 

Those that see value in the bow will buy it, those that don't, won't buy it. Either way, I don't see anyone getting "screwed" by bow companies.


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## FireFox23

That's just stupid...:yikes:


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## Silver Panner

They saw Hoyt was getting away with charging $1800 so they probably want to see what they can get away with. There's a sucker born every day.


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## tikki50

yeah Im fine with them haivng overpriced bows, let the yahoos rich guys go buy them then sell on craigslist to me  All seriousness there are many brands out there now, I ended up with a quest and for the 499 spent its quite a nice bow. I do think that its getting out of hand though, as is everything else price wise.


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## Riva

If you are unable and or unwilling to pay the price for this product is one matter. However; to assert that this company is somehow "screwing people" is to disparage our free enterprise system itself and illustrates your naivete surrounding same. May I suggest that you read the following in its entirety. It was written about 100 years ago and, as you have shown, it is as relevant today as when it was written.


*"The Penalty of Leadership"*
​In every field of human endeavor, he that is first must perpetually live in the white light of publicity. Whether the leadership be vested in a man or in a manufactured product, emulation and envy are ever at work. 



In art, in literature, in music, in industry, the reward and the punishment are always the same. The reward is widespread recognition; the punishment, fierce denial and detraction. When a man&#8217;s work becomes a standard for the whole world, it also becomes a target for the shafts of the envious few. 



If his work be mediocre, he will be left severely alone - if he achieves a masterpiece, it will set a million tongues a-wagging. Jealousy does not protrude its forked tongue at the artist who produces a commonplace painting. Whatsoever you write, or paint, or play, or sing, or build, no one will strive to surpass or to slander you unless your work be stamped with the seal of genius. 



Long, long after a great work or a good work has been done, those who are disappointed or envious, continue to cry out that it cannot be done. Spiteful little voices in the domain of art were raised against our own Whistler as a mountback, long after the big would had acclaimed him its greatest artistic genius. Multitudes flocked to Bayreuth to worship at the musical shrine of Wagner, while the little group of those whom he had dethroned and displaced argued angrily that he was no musician at all. 



The little world continued to protest that Fulton could never build a steamboat, while the big world flocked to the river banks to see his boat steam by. The leader is assailed because he is a leader, and the effort to equal him is merely added proof of that leadership. Failing to equal or to excel, the follower seeks to depreciate and to destroy - but only confirms once more the superiority of that which he strives to supplant. There is nothing new in this. It is as old as the world and as old as human passions - envy, fear, greed, ambition, and the desire to surpass. And it all avails nothing. 



If the leader truly leads, he remains - the leader. Master-poet, master-painter, master-workman, each in his turn is assailed, and each holds his laurels through the ages. That which is good or great makes itself known, no matter how loud the clamor of denial. That which deserves to live - lives.


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## KalamazooKid

I gotta have one!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## skipper34

From watching most if not all of the hunting shows and video's nowdays, seems that Matthews and Hoyt have just about taken over the business of celebrity hunting as far as bowhunting and bow usage. In my eyes, the hype associated with these "box hunts" has driven the gear market into oblivion. There are so many hunters nowdays who worship these celebrity hunters that it has risen to a cult culture. The bow that I use is a Ross, the older model before they went out of business and were taken over. The deer that I have taken with this bow couldn't care less what price I paid. When it all comes to push and shove, the bow is the least of my concerns. The arrow placement is the number one concern.


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## outdoor_m_i_k_e

thill said:


> How on earth is mathews "screwing" anyone by offering a high end safari bow?
> 
> Those that see value in the bow will buy it, those that don't, won't buy it. Either way, I don't see anyone getting "screwed" by bow companies.


Show me where I specifically said "mathews is screwing people". . . . I didnt. . . The title was referring to bow companies in general. . call it demand, what you want. . IMO all bow companies are "screwing" us at some point. . 
"high end safari"?? O.k.. . I have not shot it. . from what I hear about it, It is just a monster with a different riser and heavier limbs. . Heavier limbs can be bought by several companies for almost any bow. . Doesnt make them worth over $1000 for limbs. . . 



Riva said:


> If you are unable and or unwilling to pay the price for this product is one matter. However; to assert that this company is somehow "screwing people" is to disparage our free enterprise system itself and illustrates your naivete surrounding same. May I suggest that you read the following in its entirety. It was written about 100 years ago and, as you have shown, it is as relevant today as when it was written.
> 
> 
> *"The Penalty of Leadership"*
> ​In every field of human endeavor, he that is first must perpetually live in the white light of publicity. Whether the leadership be vested in a man or in a manufactured product, emulation and envy are ever at work.
> 
> 
> 
> In art, in literature, in music, in industry, the reward and the punishment are always the same. The reward is widespread recognition; the punishment, fierce denial and detraction. When a mans work becomes a standard for the whole world, it also becomes a target for the shafts of the envious few.
> 
> 
> 
> If his work be mediocre, he will be left severely alone - if he achieves a masterpiece, it will set a million tongues a-wagging. Jealousy does not protrude its forked tongue at the artist who produces a commonplace painting. Whatsoever you write, or paint, or play, or sing, or build, no one will strive to surpass or to slander you unless your work be stamped with the seal of genius.
> 
> 
> 
> Long, long after a great work or a good work has been done, those who are disappointed or envious, continue to cry out that it cannot be done. Spiteful little voices in the domain of art were raised against our own Whistler as a mountback, long after the big would had acclaimed him its greatest artistic genius. Multitudes flocked to Bayreuth to worship at the musical shrine of Wagner, while the little group of those whom he had dethroned and displaced argued angrily that he was no musician at all.
> 
> 
> 
> The little world continued to protest that Fulton could never build a steamboat, while the big world flocked to the river banks to see his boat steam by. The leader is assailed because he is a leader, and the effort to equal him is merely added proof of that leadership. Failing to equal or to excel, the follower seeks to depreciate and to destroy - but only confirms once more the superiority of that which he strives to supplant. There is nothing new in this. It is as old as the world and as old as human passions - envy, fear, greed, ambition, and the desire to surpass. And it all avails nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> If the leader truly leads, he remains - the leader. Master-poet, master-painter, master-workman, each in his turn is assailed, and each holds his laurels through the ages. That which is good or great makes itself known, no matter how loud the clamor of denial. That which deserves to live - lives.



To be honest, I didnt read a word of what you copied/pasted. . . Read what I wrote above. . I didnt say that "Mathews was screwing people". . . In MY opinion, all bow companies are. . 

If someone wants to waste. . . er. . . buy it, then Go for it!! Ill be laughing all the way to the range!


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## Silver Panner

skipper34 said:


> There are so many hunters nowdays who worship these celebrity hunters that it has risen to a cult culture.


When buying my new bow this summer I laughed at the bow shop when they tried to talk me into the $50 "upgrade" for Bone Collector edition. When I went to buy a release I looked high a low for one I liked. Finally settled on the Tru-Ball Beast which comes with "Bone Collector" crap all over it. First thing I did when I got home was take a sharpie to it and colored in the logo's so I'm not "that guy."

I do think its getting out of control with the prices of new equipment. How about they stop spending all this money to fly people around the world to make TV shows. I mean, its not like these things have precious metals risers or diamond encrusted cams. What else could be making them cost so much?


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## thill

Seriously?? The title to your thread is about bow companies are screwing people, then you post a link to a Mathews website and wonder why I thought you were implying that Mathews was screwing people????

Simple question: Why do you think bow companies (any) are "screwing" people by offering an expensive bow?


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## StumpJumper

Those new Mathews bows with the honeycomb risers are freaking UGLY!


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## outdoor_m_i_k_e

thill said:


> Seriously?? The title to your thread is about bow companies are screwing people, then you post a link to a Mathews website and wonder why I thought you were implying that Mathews was screwing people????
> 
> Simple question: Why do you think bow companies (any) are "screwing" people by offering an expensive bow?


You must shoot a Mathews. . . . . .Mathews "fanboys" are the only ones who take offense when ANYTHING negative is said about their products. . 

Re-read what I said in my last reply. . .


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## StumpJumper

outdoor_m_i_k_e said:


> You must shoot a Mathews. . . . . .Mathews "fanboys" are the only ones who take offense when ANYTHING negative is said about their products. .
> 
> Re-read what I said in my last reply. . .


 I LOVE my Mathews.. but you couldn't pay me to shoot that bow. I said in another forum, if and when I upgrade I would look at Mathews first but they better lose that design or I'll be buying something else. Not that anyone cares, but it's how I honestly feel.


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## outdoor_m_i_k_e

StumpJumper said:


> I LOVE my Mathews.. but you couldn't pay me to shoot that bow. I said in another forum, if and when I upgrade I would look at Mathews first but they better lose that design or I'll be buying something else. Not that anyone cares, but it's how I honestly feel.


Im as open minded as anyone when it comes to bows. . . I will go with what bow suits me best overall. . comfort, looks, and of course price are all involved. . 

My previous comment was not directed towards all Mathews shooters, just see more Mathews shooters getting butt hurt if someone says they dont like something about them then any other brand.

I personally could not justify $2100 for a bow that is going to be worth about $500 in less than 4 years(used). . ALL bow prices drop like rocks as soon as the tags come off.

Some may buy it. . . good for them, but the bow will not do anything that another bow at less than half of the price cannot do.


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## Reihlsportsman

think I'll get two ......oh wait a minute.......I wouldn't take a Mathews if you gave it to me.........

It's the same crap as high school kids with tennis shoes........SOME people don't think they're cool if there not shooting what the guys on TV are......


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## Swamp Monster

Many of us saw this coming last fall. As soon as Hoyt introduced the Carbon Matrix in limited numbers for an extremely high price (for a hunting bow anyway), you knew it was only a matter of time before Mathews had to have one of their own and you just new it was going to be a bit more expensive.....after all, many relate price with quality. Mathews could not allow themselves to be beat at what once was their very own game.....setting the high price threshold in the archery world. Is it worth the price? Not to me but it will be to someone else, that is almost a guarantee. I don't think the manufacturers are screwing anyone, they are just testing the market. If the market has room for a $1600-$1800 bow, maybe it has room for a $2100 bow? They are not forcing anyone to buy such a product since most, even Mathews and Hoyt have many quality models that are priced much much lower. They are going after a small market that exists in the archery world and are not targeting the average archery hunter/enthusiast. Just because these high end high priced bows have been released doe not make me feel screwed over by the company. Hell, GM and Ford both offer high end vehicles to a limited market and yet I don't feel like they are screwing me over! They are not forcing me to buy that product.


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## Atchison

StumpJumper said:


> Those new Mathews bows with the honeycomb risers are freaking UGLY!


Everyone said that about the waffle iron also and it grew on alot of people

hands down, if it performs people will buy it, I have no need for a safari bow and don't ever plan on it but other than that looks neat and innovative...


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## FireFox23

As I said earlier. This is just stupid. Riva implies jealousy, and envy. It's neither. There is no reason for archery equipment to be as expensive as it is. It's all the same basic parts, and can't possibly be that expensive to produce. For $2100 I could buy 4 or 5 nice firearms with scopes. The cost difference from when I bought my first bow 24 years ago, and the new one I bought this year just amazes me. It's just ridiculous, and not necessary. It's just a bow.


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## Riva

outdoor_m_i_k_e said:


> To be honest, I didnt read a word of what you copied/pasted. . . Read what I wrote above. . I didnt say that "Mathews was screwing people". . . In MY opinion, all bow companies are. .
> 
> If someone wants to waste. . . er. . . buy it, then Go for it!! Ill be laughing all the way to the range!


Didn't read it? Something (?) is bliss.

Suggest that you quit while you're behind.


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## outdoor_m_i_k_e

Riva said:


> Didn't read it? Something (?) is bliss.
> 
> Suggest that you quit while you're behind.


Pretty sure there is a conversation going on about a new bow, and the prices of bows compared to where they used to be. . 

I understand you are upset that you spent a lot of time digging through the internet trying to find something to click copy/paste on, and now no one is reading it. . . 

Quit trying to make yourself seem intelligent, it is not working. .


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## Hoyt_em

Swamp Monster said:


> Many of us saw this coming last fall. As soon as Hoyt introduced the Carbon Matrix in limited numbers for an extremely high price (for a hunting bow anyway), you knew it was only a matter of time before Mathews had to have one of their own and you just new it was going to be a bit more expensive.....after all, many relate price with quality. Mathews could not allow themselves to be beat at what once was their very own game.....setting the high price threshold in the archery world. Is it worth the price? Not to me but it will be to someone else, that is almost a guarantee. I don't think the manufacturers are screwing anyone, they are just testing the market. If the market has room for a $1600-$1800 bow, maybe it has room for a $2100 bow? They are not forcing anyone to buy such a product since most, even Mathews and Hoyt have many quality models that are priced much much lower. They are going after a small market that exists in the archery world and are not targeting the average archery hunter/enthusiast. Just because these high end high priced bows have been released doe not make me feel screwed over by the company. Hell, GM and Ford both offer high end vehicles to a limited market and yet I don't feel like they are screwing me over! They are not forcing me to buy that product.


I recall stating basically the same thing with the carbon matrix. I think my wording was a market test, and if it succeeds, then expect the others to follow suit. In the long run the working stiffs will end up paying more if they *choose* to spend the money.

My understanding is Bowtech has a new flagship bow for 2011 also. Nothing on details other than its going to have some "unique" features on it. During the conversation, the mention of the Destroyer price coming down occured...twice. I won't make a guess at the configuration, or goodies on it, but I bet its going to have a pretty tag on it reaching the 4 digit mark.


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## KalamazooKid

I absolutely can not wait to hunt with it. Hands down the best bow I've ever had in my hands.

Anyone want a slightly used Z7?


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## Hoyt_em

surely your kidding...


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## Hoyt_em

The machining on that riser is going to cost boo coo $$$$$$...


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## old graybeard

thill said:


> How on earth is mathews "screwing" anyone by offering a high end safari bow?
> 
> Those that see value in the bow will buy it, those that don't, won't buy it. Either way, I don't see anyone getting "screwed" by bow companies.


There it is in a nut shell. If there is a market and someone is in the market for it then someone has to offer it. I sure don't see the problem myself.


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## SPITFIRE

No diffrent than anything else that will serve the same purpose. "Do you want a laminate counter top or granite?" "Mission or Mathews?" Glad we have choices and plenty of them.


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## k9wernet

You all need to learn something about bows. This bow obviously kills game much deader than less expensive bows.


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## old graybeard

k9wernet said:


> You all need to learn something about bows. This bow obviously kills game much deader than less expensive bows.


That's a very true statement when you consider the size of game it is meant for.


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## thill

outdoor_m_i_k_e said:


> You must shoot a Mathews. . . . . .Mathews "fanboys" are the only ones who take offense when ANYTHING negative is said about their products. .
> 
> Re-read what I said in my last reply. . .


 

:lol::lol::lol: You are soooooo clueless!!! I've never owned a mathews in my life. I actually shoot a 2010 Bowtech Destroyer and love it! I shot the Z7, but I felt the Bowtech was a better shooting bow....for me. 

You still haven't been able to even come close to answering my question. And at this point, I don't think you're capable of it. 


Spoiler alert: Bow companies (or any company for that matter) do not "screw" people by offering high-dollar products!


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## outdoor_m_i_k_e

Im done arguing with you since you are incapable of reading. . . .


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## triplelunger

I wouldn't even pay $500 for a new bow. I have a Browning ambush I bought about 8 years ago for $300, and it kills deer. I even killed a deer with a $25 darton recurve I got at a garage sale 3 years ago!:yikes: That deer was just as dead as one shot with a $500, $600, $700, $800, $1200, $1800, $2100 bow. The most I've spent on a bow is $400 for my Snowshoe longbow.

Unless I can make a deer "dead-er" with a $500+ bow, I'm sticking with what I have.

I also bought a new sight, rest, arrows, and release this year for about $180. Does a hunting bow really need a $200 sight?

Only those who choose to get screwed get screwed. Like the guys shooting $30 arrows out of their $1200 dollar bows.


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## Corona

If you have the money, you worked hard for it, and you want the bow...get it. It's just money and you can't take it with you.
If I ever win the Lotto I'll buy you one!


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## Hackman

I've question my local archery shop probally the last 5 years about the ridiculous price of bows and there push was you needed to upgrade every 3 to 4 years. What disturbs me is archery shops seem to drag there feet if they have to work on older bows. I believe bow prices will stabalize now with more and more states offering the opportunity to hunt with crossbows. I just want to hunt, and the opportunity to harvest an animal. I like a previous thread in which the writer says it gives you opportunity to buy it on Craig,s List. I have seen alot of high end bows for sale and I know waving cash in there face will probally get you some nice bows.


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## Red Arrow

Catch us if you can...afford too!_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## langkg

I shoot a Mathews Outback I bought in 2006 and love it. My bow prior to that was an old Browning Delux Nomad XL purchased new in 1983. Killed a ton of deer with that old dog but gald I finally upgraded. Clearly I'm not really on the '3-4 year' upgrade cycle. I would certainly never drop that kind of coin on a new bow but I must say it would be a blast to go play with that thing for an afternoon! The pricetag on the Outback was steep enough for me but I have no regrets whatsoever.


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## RT1

Only if your willing to pay....
as long as the mass buying public buys these bows that are over $500 than these companies will keep pushing the prices up.

Any bow that is $300 -500 hundred is a great shooting bow. Go shoot a bow that sells for that range. they shoot just as good and feels just as smooth and quiet as a $800-900 bow......but if the massess keep paying the prices then this sport will keep getting to be a rich mans game........

Look at some of these companies like Bear that are offering very good shooting bows with the latest technology for under $500.00
go shoot them......there sweet.
I will never spend more than $500 for a bow that i will hunt with for only 2-3 months a year......It's ridiculous really......Has anyone ever figurred out how much these bows actually cost to produce.....If you really knew....you all would throw up....it's so low. these bow manufacturers are making a huge profit margin selling to the dealers.....It's crazy. the dealers don't even come close to making that kind of profit margin. It's comparable to some medical companies.....


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## KalamazooKid

RT1 said:


> Has anyone ever figurred out how much these bows actually cost to produce.....If you really knew....you all would throw up....it's so low. these bow manufacturers are making a huge profit margin selling to the dealers.....It's crazy. the dealers don't even come close to making that kind of profit margin. It's comparable to some medical companies.....


OMG ..... how DARE they try and make a PROFIT off us. I'm going to sign off and thow up now.


You do realize that ALL companies have to make a profit to stay in business right? And they also have to price their products so that enough people will buy them so they can make that profit right? Sorry no disrespect but, I just don't understand why we have these discussions .... it you don't want something for the asking price, DON'T BUY IT. I swear I'm going to buy this bow (and post lots of pictures) just to piss people off.:lol:


This is kind of personal to me as I own a small business and get the occasional question about margins (and why we have to have one). Think about it, if the government were to take over Mathews (because of price gouging) that same bow would cost you $3,000!!!!!


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## langkg

RT1 said:


> Only if your willing to pay....
> as long as the mass buying public buys these bows that are over $500 than these companies will keep pushing the prices up.
> 
> Any bow that is $300 -500 hundred is a great shooting bow. Go shoot a bow that sells for that range. they shoot just as good and feels just as smooth and quiet as a $800-900 bow......but if the massess keep paying the prices then this sport will keep getting to be a rich mans game........
> 
> Look at some of these companies like Bear that are offering very good shooting bows with the latest technology for under $500.00
> go shoot them......there sweet.
> I will never spend more than $500 for a bow that i will hunt with for only 2-3 months a year......It's ridiculous really......Has anyone ever figurred out how much these bows actually cost to produce.....If you really knew....you all would throw up....it's so low. these bow manufacturers are making a huge profit margin selling to the dealers.....It's crazy. the dealers don't even come close to making that kind of profit margin. It's comparable to some medical companies.....


 
I have to respectfully disagree with you a bit. I dropped $700 on my Outback 4 years ago and out the door it was probably closer to $900 or so by the time I bought new arrows and a few things for it. I transfered my rest from my old bow. 

Yes, a lot of money but considering I'll be using this bow for probably 10+ years it's really not that bad when you think about it. There are a number of ways I justify this to myself:

1. It's an activity I enjoy tremendously and I get many 1.5 to 2 months of hunting with it every year. That's every weekend plus several vacation days not to mention all the practice shooting which I enjoy from time to time as well.
2. I have a Rem 11-87 shotgun that I use during reg firearm, turkey and duck. This gun costs as much as the bow - actually more considering I have different bbls (slug, turkey and reg). I use that less hours every year than my bow but also enjoy it tremendously.
3. I don't golf or really have other recreational interests aside from hunting and fishing but I'll bet an avid golfer spends $700 plus every year just in greens fees, balls, clubs, etc. Spending the same amount of coin on a bow that I can use for many, many years is a bargin.
4. Like many on this site I butcher my own deer and consider that part of the hunt. If someone is complaining about bow prices and turns around and drops $60+ per deer to have someone spend a few hours with a knife then I think that's crazy. Hell - that's a half dozen nice carbons right there. 

I'm saying a $700 bow is right for everybody and you're correct that there are many very nice bows for less than that. All I'm saying is in the greater context of things it's not that bad. Would I drop $2100 on that fancy new Mathews - nope - but I wouldn't look crosswise at a guy that did and enjoyed it either.


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## Sib

One thing I have seen mentioned yet, though I haven't read every post, is the correlation between bow maker prices and advertising/marketing. Given the advertising/marketing/sponsoring costs of the big boys, they require a higher price to make the same margin as some of the quieter brands producing the same quality. It takes a lot of revenue to saturate the hunting media, naturally the price of those bows reflect those exposure costs. It doesn't make a bow any better if their name is everywhere, but it costs money to put the name anywhere. Somebody has to pay those costs.


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