# Fly rod help



## ditchrat (Jan 8, 2008)

So here is the scoop, I like to fly fish for pike and right now i an using a st croix 8wt 9'6 i am casting a 450 grain sink tip with a 8'' bunny fly. The problem i am having is, with that wt line the rod is to soft and it makes it hard to cast. So what i am looking for is a fast action rod in a 8wt about 9'6 -10' that will cast that wait of line. I am buying some lighter wt lines so i can keep using that rod but i would still like to use my 450 grain line because some of the lakes i fish are deep and it gets the fly down fast. Any and all help is apreciated. Thanks Ditchrat


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## abbatoys (Sep 3, 2005)

That line is pretty heavy. You could get a 9 wt rod. I love st croix and sage, but there are guys on here that can point you in a better direction than I can..."Oh Yea" will probably be able to find a deal for you..He is the guru for deals....Scott


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## swaprat (Oct 1, 2011)

this mite be a quick fix?


What about t-11 a hole coil on it and a shooting line attached to the back or even t-14 with a few feet knocked off it goes as high as t-20 which is 20 grains per foot t-14 is 14 grains per foot and so on as marked I use a grain scale to match up my line I got a archery scale from 3 river archery. For like 20 bucks the t-11 is 30 foot long there all 30 foot long 30x11=330 grains that maybe better to cast. Then a 450 grain head and has the same sink rate the t 20 has a 10 + inch sink rate. If that helps more yet Any ways how I assemble it is whip loops in the ends with the provided loops using g size tying thread you just put it in a fly tying bobbin and spin it around it till the area is covered completely. If this does not work on that st croix then get a switch rod you will cover more water quicker and fish harder with a switch on a lake. Here is some link to the rio products like t-11 and the running line I would use. It come with three tip loops might have to buy extra? Any ways let us know the thoughts of what was said so we can help better. Just remember to water haul it so it does not over load the rod this mean bring the line in almost all the way before you go to cast by stripping in. or it will load the rod the same as the 450 grain head and maybe not even launch it.? btw these have there own sink rates in the t-?? series of heads. like t-14 is 9 ips and so on....any ways if not what about a switch rod......would hate to make you by another rod the t-14 will work as a head on the switch btw. if it does not work out on the st.croix btw that is intermidate running line i was thinking. 
http://www.rioproducts.com/skin/summit/pdf/Sink%20Tip%20specs%202012.pdf
http://www.rioproducts.com/fly-lines/shooting-heads-lines/heads/t-8-11-14-17-20/
http://www.rioproducts.com/fly-lines/shooting-heads-lines/shooting-line/powerflex-core


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## ditchrat (Jan 8, 2008)

Thanks for the help guys it is something to think on. This is what my plan is, i have already bought some new lines I got a 350 sink tip a 250 sink tip and an 8wt floating. so the St. Croix is going to fish the 350 sink tip, the 250 and the floating i am going to match up with one of my other two 8wts i have, so what i am tring to find is a fast action rod that will handle the 450 sink tip. And may be swaprat is right i might have to go to a switch rod. so that is why i seen your advice. Thanks Ditchrat


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## OH-YEAH!!! (Jun 18, 2009)

abbatoys said:


> That line is pretty heavy. You could get a 9 wt rod. I love st croix and sage, but there are guys on here that can point you in a better direction than I can..."Oh Yea" will probably be able to find a deal for you..He is the guru for deals....Scott


Thanks, Scott. I've never fished with more than a 300 grain sinking line so I wouldn't know where to start.

Frank the owner of the PM Lodge loves to fish for pike and likely would have some good advice for you.

Paul - Esox on this site also fishes for pike quite a bit and likely has some good advice...though his tastes run towards expensive Helios rods.


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## ditchrat (Jan 8, 2008)

Well i do like to buy Orvis, But i dont think they have a rod that will handle that wt line. If i went to a 9 or 10 wt rod with that line do u thing it would cast better?


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## OH-YEAH!!! (Jun 18, 2009)

ditchrat said:


> Well i do like to buy Orvis, But i dont think they have a rod that will handle that wt line. If i went to a 9 or 10 wt rod with that line do u thing it would cast better?


Esox will likely know the answer to that question. I'd send him a PM.


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## OH-YEAH!!! (Jun 18, 2009)

Also, Sage has a specialized Bass fishing line. The rods are short, 7'11" but are designed for very heavy lines.

I have the smallmouth rod designed for 290 grain line that I got on a very steep closeout.

They have a Peacock Bass inspired line designed to throw 390 grain line:

http://www.redtruckflyfishing.com/s...90_grain_peacock_bass_fly_fishing_rod_4_piece


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## OH-YEAH!!! (Jun 18, 2009)

This may be your answer; half off and it includes a reel

http://www.redtruckflyfishing.com/p/s/viewitem.aspx?p=ffo-lop-pike-89c


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## OH-YEAH!!! (Jun 18, 2009)

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## ditchrat (Jan 8, 2008)

Thanks OH-Yeah for all the info and help.


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## esoxfly (Oct 16, 2009)

ditchrat said:


> Well i do like to buy Orvis, But i dont think they have a rod that will handle that wt line. If i went to a 9 or 10 wt rod with that line do u thing it would cast better?


Yes, go with a 10 wt. No sense in going with another 8 wt. to cast a line that's too heavy for the 8 you have now. There are "standards" set forth by the AFTMA and 450 is for like a 13 wt fly rod. Casting that on an 8 is kinda silly. 

That said, there is a ton of wiggle room and alot of it is subjective to feel, casting ability and the build of the rod itself. But 450 on an 8 is like towing a bulldozer with a pick up truck. It'll move it, but it'll do it slowly, inefficiently and will eventually tear up the truck. 

I'm pretty lenient in my standards and if I'm casting a line that doesn't feel right or move the fly that I need moved (I'm a muskie guy, so I think in terms of moving the fly rather than presenting the fly.) I'll go up or down or start messing with tapers to get it right and after a while you get it where you know what lines cast what flies with what rods. I know I've got some lines on some rods that are way out of AFTMA specs, but they work for that fly or that application.

So back to your 8 wts, yes a longer rod is a longer lever in theory, but that's just one of a hundred variables that cast a line. Keep it simple for starters and get a 10 wt and that'll move that line more like it should be, and then you've got yourself another tool in your toolbag instead of just another 8 wt.


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## ditchrat (Jan 8, 2008)

Thanks Esox i appreiate the help. would there be a certain 10wt u would recomend?


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

A 450 is even a bit heavy for a 10 wt. IMHO, but it sure beats trying it on an 8 or 9. 


ditchrat said:


> Thanks Esox i appreiate the help. would there be a certain 10wt u would recomend?


Lets talk. I have a tip flex Orvis TLS 10 wt in very good condition, spent most of it's life in a tube as a back up rod. Tube shows it has traveled a lot. Rod is great. 17 or so years of no questions asked warranty left. Make me an offer I can't refuse. 
Also have an Orvis Mach LA reel with extra spool. 350 grain SA Streamer Express on one spool, SA Muskie/pike taper on the other. Reel and lines all in excellent condition. Again, make an offer.
This combo will shoot all the running line of the SA streamer express with one double haul.


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## esoxfly (Oct 16, 2009)

ditchrat said:


> Thanks Esox i appreiate the help. would there be a certain 10wt u would recomend?


No problem. Now don't get us confused, but I'm "Esoxfly" and Paul is "Esox" and he's actually the guy who's advice was recommended to you earlier. I just stepped on his toes. 

As for rods, I always build my rods on Sage blanks, and have for probably 15 years now. They've always done me right and every blank has been awesome. But of cours there's many, many rods out there that will do you quite well. You can buy some 10 wts that have an additional foregrip on them. That may look cool, but don't be tricked into thinking that's a heavier rod or that it'll cast better. It's just a foregrip they put onto their standard blank. Usually you don't see foregrips until you get into 11+ wts, but I have seen them on 10 wts and then sold as being heavier duty or handingling heavier loads...not true. It's just an extra foregrip for those that like them.



ESOX said:


> A 450 is even a bit heavy for a 10 wt. IMHO, but it sure beats trying it on an 8 or 9.


Yep, and I just looked at AFTMA charts, and it stops at 390 on a 12 wt! LOL, so like I was saying, I do use quite a bit of leeway on my line selections based on what I'm wanting to cast. I cast 400-500 on some of my 10 wts based on what I'm doing and where I'm at. 750 isn't even on the chart, but I cast 650's and 750's on my 13. I'm currently building an Xi2 10 and 11 wt. so we'll see where they fall into the mix.

I think too that as customer's preference moves more toward faster rods, you'll see more and more lines advertised as "heavier than AFTMA standards." Rio does that alot and some other companies are starting to sell lines as such.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

My toes are fine Jeff. Jump in whenever.


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## abbatoys (Sep 3, 2005)

I use a 10 wt Sage RPLX with a Musky/Pike taper line. It works real good for casting and I am sure it would work fine for a 300 gr streamer line I have. I can toss some good sized musky flies decently and I am no means aa good caster. Still looking for my first ski on the fly, but I keep on trying...Scott


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