# Banned spinning wing decoys at shiawasse river sga



## highcaliberconsecrator (Oct 16, 2009)

goosemanrdk said:


> Popcorn anyone!:yikes:


it's in the microwave....I say lock it before it gets worse, though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

no use in locking it, someone will just make another.

everyone has their opinions. everyones got the right to state them sooner or later. have at it.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

KrossJr said:


> Maybe next year they can ban pinchin the cut and setting up on the backside to shoot em on the swing. All made famous at the "Boys Club" by the same" local yocals " that passed this.:lol:


oh and if that boys club didn't exist, neither would srsga. so carry on...complain and bitch...but that organization started to fend off the state from shutting it down. The ability to get backsided, pinched, squeezed...wouldn't even be an option...but that would be ok with you i take it?


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## franky (Apr 14, 2004)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> no use in locking it, someone will just make another.



There is always an idiot who adds fuel to the fire.


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## ThumbDweller (Aug 2, 2007)

they've made the turn, ........ and they're off!!!!


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## Water_Hazard (Aug 16, 2006)




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## melvvin (Nov 21, 2007)

KrossJr said:


> Maybe next year they can ban pinchin the cut and setting up on the backside to shoot em on the swing. All made famous at the "Boys Club" by the same" local yocals " that passed this.:lol:


 You forgot to mention splitting up at the draw for more chances at a hot single party field then hunting together in one zone.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> oh and if that boys club didn't exist, neither would srsga. so carry on...complain and bitch...but that organization started to fend off the state from shutting it down. The ability to get backsided, pinched, squeezed...wouldn't even be an option...but that would be ok with you i take it?


Yeah I think what we "good ol' boys" should do next is pass a rule that you can't hunt SRSGA unless you put in at least one day of manual labor on the area. That should cut the competition down to what...30-40 people...basicallly the ones WHO PAY DUES AND ATTEND THE MONTHLY MEETINGS ON THEIR OWN TIME :yikes:

Oh and by the way to any of you who are sitting on the grassy knoll taking pot shots, the annual pre-season work day is THIS SATURDAY, Aug. 28th. So *I'm sure *we'll all see all of you out there with us bright and early at 9am to work on pull overs, post unit signs, cut brush, plant seed, yada, yada, yada. YEAH RIGHT!!! 

Bitch all you want, but I just hope those of you who never set foot on the area until hunting season take a minute this year to realize who did much of the work and regular maintenance to make your lives easier...it's not the DNRE!


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

melvvin said:


> You forgot to mention splitting up at the draw for more chances at a hot single party field then hunting together in one zone.


thats physically impossible to do unless they want to hunt illegally....then again then that would be violating. if your insinuating thats a "boys club deal"...c'mon get real.

I can guarantee i've never seen a group separate and grab separate cards just to get a single field that may be hot...never. I've hunted there 30+ years and never seen that. Just thinking about the mechanics of wanting to do it....nope. That claim is a little reaching don't you think?


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## SuperBlackEagle2 (Nov 4, 2005)

KrossJr said:


> Maybe next year they can ban pinchin the cut and setting up on the backside to shoot em on the swing. All made famous at the "Boys Club" by the same" local yocals " that passed this.:lol:


Yeah, I mean it's not like they've done anything to help SRSGA. It's not as if they've done tons of work to improve the place. It's not as if they've raised money for the place, or anything either. Yeah, screw those guys. They shouldn't have any say whatsoever, as to what happens there?? It should be all up to you guys. The ones who do nothing, and who in some cases have zero vested interest in what happens there? 
Some of you guys are complete idiots. And not just this guy in particular. This is just the post of the moment, that I chose to "quote". Whether it be this issue, season dates, zones, you guys just can't quit pissing & moaning. This is a friggin' 3 year trial. So sorry that they didn't go door to door, asking what everyone thought. God forbid they made any decision, and didn't ask our resident "Waterfowler-in chief" Caddis. Or god forbid they didn't get any input, from the Missouri snow goose guide. The only reason most of you even give a damn, is just simply because you like to complain. None of you complainers even go to the meetings, or hunt there very often..if at all. It is what it is, shut up and deal with it.


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

Minus the personal attacks, what he said.:evilsmile


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

SuperBlackEagle2 said:


> Yeah, I mean it's not like they've done anything to help SRSGA. It's not as if they've done tons of work to improve the place. It's not as if they've raised money for the place, or anything either. Yeah, screw those guys. *They shouldn't have any say whatsoever, as to what happens there.*


True, work or no work, no one should have more say over a public resource than anyone else. Maybe I should run down to United Way and start telling them how to run their organization 




SuperBlackEagle2 said:


> None of you complainers even go to the meetings, or hunt there very often..if at all. It is what it is, shut up and deal with it.


And after months of this, still a zero on reading comprehension.

You know what? I don't think I've read a post from you in months that wasn't a snide comment on a thread.


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## Sampsons_owner (Dec 30, 2005)

just ducky said:


> Oh and by the way to any of you who are sitting on the grassy knoll taking pot shots, the annual pre-season work day is THIS SATURDAY, Aug. 28th. So *I'm sure *we'll all see all of you out there with us bright and early at 9am to work on pull overs, post unit signs, cut brush, plant seed, yada, yada, yada. YEAH RIGHT!!!


This needs to be a thread all its own. Since the boss is working I may be able to come over and help out. Steve


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Sampsons_owner said:


> This needs to be a thread all its own. Since the boss is working I may be able to come over and help out. Steve


Good idea Steve. Should've done it a long time ago, but time got away from me. Will do that right now.


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

just ducky said:


> Good idea Steve. Should've done it a long time ago, but time got away from me. Will do that right now.


Uh Oh!!! Shouldn't have admitted that time got away from you, now some people may try to use that to say that you don't care about the area as much as you say you do.

Sorry, I couln't resist.:evilsmile


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## SuperBlackEagle2 (Nov 4, 2005)

TSS Caddis said:


> You know what? I don't think I've read a post from you in months that wasn't a snide comment on a thread.


I guess you're right about that one, Pierre.


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## ScavengerMan (Sep 6, 2006)

tommy-n said:


> sounds like some guys will have to learn how to hunt all over again. Back to duck hunting 101



Exactly, like deer bait, a lot of hunters have become dependent on spinners and are lost without them. I say GREAT, time to learn how to hunt without an electric crutch.


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## ScavengerMan (Sep 6, 2006)

SuperBlackEagle2 said:


> Yeah, I mean it's not like they've done anything to help SRSGA. It's not as if they've done tons of work to improve the place. It's not as if they've raised money for the place, or anything either. Yeah, screw those guys. They shouldn't have any say whatsoever, as to what happens there?? It should be all up to you guys. The ones who do nothing, and who in some cases have zero vested interest in what happens there?
> Some of you guys are complete idiots. And not just this guy in particular. This is just the post of the moment, that I chose to "quote". Whether it be this issue, season dates, zones, you guys just can't quit pissing & moaning. This is a friggin' 3 year trial. So sorry that they didn't go door to door, asking what everyone thought. God forbid they made any decision, and didn't ask our resident "Waterfowler-in chief" Caddis. Or god forbid they didn't get any input, from the Missouri snow goose guide. The only reason most of you even give a damn, is just simply because you like to complain. None of you complainers even go to the meetings, or hunt there very often..if at all. It is what it is, shut up and deal with it.



That's telling it like it is.....


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## Branta (Feb 6, 2002)

this is like dealing with my 5 and 8yr old, beotching about that frickin' Wii


I don't care who started it (sound familiar?), 
but let's stop the personal attacks.



TSS Caddis said:


> I obviously do not agree with the minute bit of information this was based on, but since the state passed it, it is the states job to get the word out, not JD's, Kid's or anyone else.


Caddis is dead on- It's not SFHA's baby anymore, so if you're looking to lynch someone, you're barking up the wrong tree there.


SFHA guys- You're too easily goaded into these gun battles. The best way to deal with this is to simply not respond. As much as you might want to fire a salvo back, you're just being baited into a no-win situation and worse, anything/everything you say will be taken out of context or used against you.

i'd also advise you not to go the route of "we do more..." 

cuz then..., 

Well? You just tightened that knot.

everything you say could be dead on, 100% true... but it doesn't make it anymore digestable to everyone else outside that circle. if anything, you just opened yourself up to more public criticism. (i.e. Sense of entitlement)


_so what's going to happen in these threads if i don't get a lick in_? simple; they just fall off the page. the more you guys go back n forth, the more it stays right up top, front n center. guys that don't have alot of time go to the threads with the most views - that's where the action is, right?

No response is the best and you'd be surprised how prevalent short term memory is around here. Most guys won't even scroll to the next screen in these M-S forums, so let it fall by the way side and let the DNR pick up their fight (if that's what it is).

if you just can't help yourself, your respnses should be non emotional, with zero sarcasm and information based/clarification type only.

~~~~~~
everyone else:

don't lose sight that this *ban* (the word everyone is getting hung up on) is a *TEST*. (the word everyone seems to forget).

look at this TEST like just one more restriction/regulation to hunt a particular GMA. a rule unique to that one locale.

let's see, just like; 

18 shell limit at one GMA , but not another.
daily drawings at one GMA, but only two days/week at others
redraws available at one, but not another

and no one asked my opinion about shutting down my favorite honey hole at Maple river gma.

these all restrict what/how you can hunt at a particular gma, but no one's grousing about that, are they? 

catch my drift? want to hunt a particular gma, you play by those rules or you simply play elsewhere for the next three years.

Let the state run their TEST. Got an axe to grind? send your comments to the MDNR - apparently, they're prepared to deal with you (conjecture from Roberts posts on CWAC mtg and Russ Masons position on this issue)

heaven forbid that we may actually LEARN something from this TEST.


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

Amen Branta!!!!!!!!!!


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## raisinrat (Feb 9, 2006)

Branta










Nice running into yesterday by the way.


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## Mike L (Sep 8, 2003)




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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

as much as i would love to ignore some of the statements, im not gonna let people take baseless shots at the organization whos put a gazillion hours and and over a million dollars into a GMA they love. None of the members think they are owed nothing, saying anything otherwise is someone whos making a very uneducated statements.

we will take the heat for suggesting the spinning ban. that we can expect, but to spread baseless lies about anything else is immature at best.

if you want to make opinions before season on the spin ban...go for it. I like reading them as do most anyone. But to bash is getting old. If after reading this post you still have issues, RE-READ branta's post. He answered everything.


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## MCMANN (Jan 13, 2010)

you can leave my name out of your 2cents buddy i stated my opinion on many post im staying out of this one 


good luck to all


mike


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

yeah what about that Maple River plan eh Branta? Yep, 99% of my honey holes in that area are off limits now. Will have to get really creative if I hunt it this fall. I drove over it on 27 again this weekend. West side is all but dry, with just a couple of small spits of water here and there. Ground was hard and cracked. A few trash chickens...er..geese sitting around looking for the 9th green :lol: There were a boatload of youngun teal and woodies on the east side of the freeway though, so you guys who are willing to brave WW III there to hunt that one single marsh on opening day should have one helluva cluster of small targets moving around :yikes:

Oh yeah, like you said Branta, they didn't call and ask my opinion on all of that either


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## KrossJr (Jan 20, 2009)

I love stirring the pot.......:evil:


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

KrossJr said:


> I love stirring the pot.......:evil:


so criticizing a local non-profit group and spreading lies about it is stirring the pot. i'm a forum whore and can stir with the best of them, but you picked the innocent target in this case. generalizing and insinuating that what sfcha represents and condones is childish and then to come back and act like your just pot stirring....bleh. 

If you want to rip on me or some specific by all means, stir. I can take it.


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## KrossJr (Jan 20, 2009)

Boy I really struck a nerve with you "old great one"....

Is pinchin the cut and backsiding your style?:gaga:


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

KrossJr said:


> Boy I really struck a nerve with you "old great one"....
> 
> Is pinchin the cut and backsiding your style?:gaga:


Put your pot stirring (your words...not mine) energy into something productive. See you at the Ott Farm...9am Saturday, right? Bring your work gloves and boots...you'll need them.


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## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

SuperBlackEagle2 said:


> Yeah, I mean it's not like they've done anything to help SRSGA. It's not as if they've done tons of work to improve the place. It's not as if they've raised money for the place, or anything either. Yeah, screw those guys. They shouldn't have any say whatsoever, as to what happens there?? It should be all up to you guys. The ones who do nothing, and who in some cases have zero vested interest in what happens there?
> Some of you guys are complete idiots. And not just this guy in particular. This is just the post of the moment, that I chose to "quote". Whether it be this issue, season dates, zones, you guys just can't quit pissing & moaning. This is a friggin' 3 year trial. So sorry that they didn't go door to door, asking what everyone thought. God forbid they made any decision, and didn't ask our resident "Waterfowler-in chief" Caddis. Or god forbid they didn't get any input, from the Missouri snow goose guide. The only reason most of you even give a damn, is just simply because you like to complain. None of you complainers even go to the meetings, or hunt there very often..if at all. It is what it is, shut up and deal with it.


 

 I love it! Good post.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

KrossJr said:


> Boy I really struck a nerve with you "old great one"....
> 
> Is pinchin the cut and backsiding your style?:gaga:


well if your the retard sitting at the downwind end of your field huggin the cut only to get pinched by the field next to you....then yes. I'm sorry your clueless and maybe you should refer to my windguide in my sig link.

only nerve you struck is generalizing sfcha. i can take any of your personal insults, its really not that big of deal because if you have to resort to calling me "old great one" then i've struck a nerve with you...ironic isn't it?


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## Big Honkers (Dec 20, 2008)

To those that want to keep complaining about this rule or "stirring the pot"...


































































....and I have more if needed.


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## Fall Flight Punisher (Aug 14, 2008)

Thank you B.H. Well said!


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Big Honkers said:


> To those that want to keep complaining about this rule or "stirring the pot"...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you. And as I said before, let's turn all that negativity into something positive...spend some time with us this Saturday working our arses off on the SRSGA. I'll even provide a bottle of water paid for from my own pocket


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## Branta (Feb 6, 2002)

honestly,

it's like talking to a wall sometimes. 



want this to go away? then *STOP POSTING ON IT*!!

give it a day or two and it's off the radar. trust me.


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## 1fish (Oct 2, 2006)

Ive chosen to remain silent on this for the most part, but it truly amazes me how much effort that people are putting into debating this. It amazes me because those who oppose this ban so vehemently via some random internet message board, and put so much energy into putting their views on here, to the best of my knowledge, arent doing anything constructive to rectify what they view as a gross malfeasance.

Cold Hard Fact: The ban is in place. The Shia Flats group identified an issue that was important to them, did their homework to find out what they needed to do, organized enough support, effectively communicated their wishes with the right people, and got it done. Plain and simple, I applaud their efforts to take an active role in what they feel was a betterment of their time afield, regardless as to if I agree or disagree. Their efforts and work resulted in their voice being heard and action being taken.

However, with all of the opponents of this, which many of us knew about it long before it ever became reality, nobody put any efforts, other than voicing their objections in a message board to stop it.

So heres my proposal for those that are so opposed to it: GET IT REPEALLED

Its really not that difficult to do. All you have to do is organize enough people to show that the majority does not agree with the ban, how it was implemented, what the objective is, how will success of the ban be determined, etc etc etc or any other objection you may have. Demonstrate your majority opinion to the appropriate individuals with the appropriate authority to do something about it, and viola, no more ban.

Dont know who to contact or how to contact them? Since it seems like most on here are at least somewhat computer capable:

Heres a link to the Wildlife Division staff and phone numbers:

http://michigan.gov/documents/dnr/WILDLIFE_FIELD_OFFICE_ADDRESS_PHONE_March_2010_316988_7.pdf

Prefer to contact them via email? Here ya go:

http://www.state.mi.us/dit/directory.aspx

Dont know who your elected legislators are or how to contact them? Here ya go:

http://www.michigan.gov/som/0,1607,7-192-29701_29704---FI,00.html

In the mean time, give credit to the Shia Flats group for taking the initiative to try and improve what they view as a detractor from their hunting experiences. They did the heavy lifting, put the effort in, and got it done. If someone doesnt like it, its up to you to put in the same amount of effort to get it undone.

In other words *put up or shut up*, the choice is yours.


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## billbuster1 (Jul 27, 2010)

i dont even hunt srsga but all im gonna say is they made this so you could hunt there and they say what goes so if you dont like it then dont hunt there but seriously its not necessary to bash someone because of their opinion.


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## Branta (Feb 6, 2002)

someone's gotta blow on the embers.


getting a really itchy trigger finger....

:Modified_


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

branta said:


> someone's gotta blow on the ambers.
> 
> 
> Getting a really itchy trigger finger....
> ...


*take 'em!!!!!!!!!!*


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## Shlwego (Sep 13, 2006)

Branta said:


> someone's gotta blow on the ambers.
> 
> 
> getting a really itchy trigger finger....
> ...


Just do it already, man! You are far too patient....


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

franky said:


> But If you have 80% of the reports coming back saying wow I loved not having to fight against flocks of mojos all around me and shot my limit of geese to boot, then why do you need past info?


caddis loves bureaucracy, can't you tell?

i'm really only answering these posts to be as informative as I can....and some jack them into "what i woulda done" posts....when it all comes down to it, if you got problems with the way it was done maybe they should get involved with it.


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## PuddleJumper (Sep 23, 2009)

TSS Caddis said:


> I would have thought that a good way to test this out would have been the option on one of the polls, partial ban. 2 comparable fields, 1 allows spinners, one does not.


 
Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. The test needs something to test against while keeping as many variables constant- and that idea would be as pure of a test as you could have (and less room for arguements when both sets of data are collected under exact conditions).

It is what it is, but I really like Caddis' idea...


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## franky (Apr 14, 2004)

PuddleJumper said:


> Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. The test needs something to test against while keeping as many variables constant- and that idea would be as pure of a test as you could have (and less room for arguements when both sets of data are collected under exact conditions).
> 
> It is what it is, but I really like Caddis' idea...


We can do that, And I'll send a letter out to the mallards and the geese to make sure they spread out evenly into all the hunting zones. So only 100 mallards in this zone with 50 geese, and 100 in another zone and 50 geese. 

Thing is, different fields produce when others just might not. Theres always that field that nobody wants to take because they don't shoot many ducks there. I know at fish point fields around the refuge kill the most ducks. It would have to be a whole managed area rather than just parts of the area.


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## MCMANN (Jan 13, 2010)

can you tell me what the kill numbers on ducks was before the robos came about ??
if you can is more birds being killed now then before or is the numbers higher now with robos
in my yrs at FP i will say the number of birds being killed is much higher now then yrs before the robo not sure if we are better hunts now or if its all to do with the robos 
i do agree you will kill more geese now without the robos


mike


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> really thats not even the merit of the ban. again, there was a baseline for the trial/experiment, you probably missed the 3000 previous posts outlining it


I must have missed it. Since it seems no one is clear on what will be done during the ban to gauge success, how would you know what baseline to compare against?


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## franky (Apr 14, 2004)

TSS Caddis said:


> I must have missed it. Since it seems no one is clear on what will be done during the ban to gage success, how would you know what baseline to compare against?


I mean I might be the only one who has read this, or maybe it is because I attend the meetings er, I mean, "The Little Boys Club".

HUNTER SATISFACTION.


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## MCMANN (Jan 13, 2010)

the areas around the refuge kills more ducks just because them areas get hunted the hardest i can say i havnt hunted the refuge fields in many yrs and i will almost bet not many people kill any where the amount of birds i do at FP 
prime example is blind 8 the handicap blind not many birds get killed there for 1 it hardly every gets hunted me and my 79 yr old grampa hunt it prolly 10 times a season and shoot near limits everytime out of it


mike


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

PuddleJumper said:


> Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. The test needs something to test against while keeping as many variables constant- and that idea would be as pure of a test as you could have (and less room for arguements when both sets of data are collected under exact conditions).
> 
> It is what it is, but I really like Caddis' idea...


take your idea somewhere. if its got merit and dnr thinks it can be done, you might have a winner. Until then, its a guy posting an idea on the internet over and over and over....(read previous 3 spinner threads on the subject).

what i don't get is some of the most vocal people on here never set foot in a managed area last year let alone SRSGA. All you here is BAN and TAKE AWAY but really haven't seen why or what the ban was about. 

TRY IT. ask others who hunted out there consistently (not just 1 day), ask the guys that put in hunter trips (the ones who keep it open)...get their opinions. SFCHA has been asking those guys for 3+ years. This ban attempt was very close to being moved forward for the last 3years...not just now.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

franky said:


> But If you have 80% of the reports coming back saying wow I loved not having to fight against flocks of mojos all around me and shot my limit of geese to boot, then why do you need past info?
> 
> not towards you Dan, more towards the above.




Because that is how you do a study. Any biologist would understand, so my assumption is Avers has past surveys that she has results from that she will be distributing.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

TSS Caddis said:


> I must have missed it. Since it seems no one is clear on what will be done during the ban to gage success, how would you know what baseline to compare against?


i'm sure Vic will be able to answer that after the season himself. He has to listen to everyone bitch about everything all season. lol. 1 man can probably solve this debate for us. :lol:


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> caddis loves bureaucracy, can't you tell?
> 
> i'm really only answering these posts to be as informative as I can....and some jack them into "what i woulda done" posts....when it all comes down to it, if you got problems with the way it was done maybe they should get involved with it.


Ha ha, and if I do not belong to your org, follow CWAC, or read NRC 
minutes, how would I know?

Why would you be against Avers doing her job and conducting the study in an acceptable manner? Probably better than an MDHA poll. 

It is clear this is your baby and you don't want anything discussed about it, why?


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

to be honest caddis, its really not that hard to figure out if a rule like this works. its very easy to listen to the people at the draws everyday....if they dont like something everyone hears it...if they do like it....you hear it.

if this thing hurts SRSGA i guarantee you that we will be all over it like crazy. You aren't stupid, if we can't kill ducks because spinners are banned....we will change the rule. Lets just be real for 2 seconds and think about it. You have no dog in this fight besides the point a rule got changed and you missed it. You know that its a trial. You know if it has a negative effect it won't last. What gives?


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

TSS Caddis said:


> It is clear this is your baby and you don't want anything discussed about it, why?


are you nuts, i've been vocal in every thread.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> what i don't get is some of the most vocal people on here never set foot in a managed area last year let alone SRSGA. All you here is BAN and TAKE AWAY but really haven't seen why or what the ban was about..


After all these threads, if you still think I care about spinners, there is nothing I can do to make it clear for you. 

People were asking legit questions on how the will gauge if it was a success or not, and now your taking offence to that? You take offence to asking the DNRE to do their job and conduct the 3 year trial study in a scientific manner by having success criteria defined?

Just seems every and any question about this is taboo and can not even be discussed in a civil manner as if God himself whispered in your ear and this can not be questioned.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

TSS Caddis said:


> After all these threads, if you still think I care about spinners, there is nothing I can do to make it clear for you.
> 
> People were asking legit questions on how the will gauge if it was a success or not, and now your taking offence to that? You take offence to asking the DNRE to do their job and conduct the 3 year trial study in a scientific manner by having success criteria defined?
> 
> Just seems every and any question about this is taboo and can not even be discussed in a civil manner as if God himself whispered in your ear and this can not be questioned.


ya because we've told you 10x now to call barb and ask her, only her and russ mason have that plan (or whoever at DNRE is involved)...i only told you many times on here....i gave you what i know. I hear what i hear at the meetings.

but you seem to come back like a broken record (even though u don't care about spinners) to say the same thing on the coat tails of any of my posts on the subject...Told you many times call Barb. I believe KLR has once, maybe she told him how shes gonna do it? you guys talk a lot, maybe he has your answer?


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## Shlwego (Sep 13, 2006)

William H Bonney said:


> Exactly!!
> 
> There's no baseline for this trial/experiment,,,, other than a group of regulars that "don't like 'em", or "they flare birds", or "they don't work anyway", etc...
> 
> As I said in other threads,, I don't have a dog in this fight either but,,, I don't like the road that these types of things are traveling down...... it's gettin' a lil' slippery.


Let me start by saying this: I did not hunt SRSGA last season. The most I have ever hunted it is twice in a season, so I don't have a dog in this fight either. 
You stated that there is no baseline from which to judge this ban. I think I disagree with that. The way I look at it is this: the past few seasons _*have been*_ the baseline, because spinners have been in regular use for many seasons now. Caddis said that they would need multiple years of past data to compare against. I think they have that data. The DNRE knows how many hunter trips were taken to SRSGA each season, and they know fairly certainly how many birds were taken and what species those birds were (and probably which zones are on average the very best choice). Those are "hard numbers" that really exist. That's a pretty good baseline as far as I'm concerned. The question is: what will those numbers look like without spinners being used? Nobody knows. But DNRE obviously feels that it's worth finding out. 
The desire on the part of the DNRE is to have more people feel satisfied with their hunting experience at the managed hunting areas, so that they will return and pay the cost to hunt there again (or buy the annual permit). What's the best measure of hunting satisfaction? I bet it's NOT whether or not spinners can be used, but rather how many quality shooting opportunities a hunter gets, because for some of us that translates directly into how many birds we take home (and for me it's how many shots I blew). I guarantee, though, that if hunters regularly feel that they have the opportunity to limit out, they will be satisfied (spinners or not). If it could be shown that _more_ birds get taken without spinners than in the recent data they have for years _with _spinners, hunter satisfaction will also likely be positive, and likely the number of hunter trips will also show an increase. You can't get this data without a ban. It's that simple. It really doesn't matter to the DNRE how many people like spinners or hate them, or even whether those people think the ban was "fair" to all hunters. Their goal in this ban really doesn't even have much to do with what kind of equipment people use when they hunt, as strange as that may sound. What they want is data on what hunter satisfaction looks like AFTER the ban has been in place for three years. When the three year study is complete, they should be able to tell what hunter satisfaction looks like _*without even asking*_ any direct questions about spinners. The numbers will tell the tale.

Again, I don't think this is about the DNRE wanting to limit a legal piece of equipment so much as it is about hunter satisfaction at a State Managed Game Area. If the study proves that people stop using the area because they can't use spinners, then the ban will expire. If it proves that more people use the area, because they feel they get more quality shooting chances, then it's possible that the ban could become permanent and even cause similar bans to be enacted at other Managed Areas. But it does not appear to me that the DNRE has any interest in banning them for general use Statewide. If a spinner is flaring birds somewhere out in the middle of nowhere and the hunter is not savvy enough to realize that and pull it in, it's NOT the DNRE's problem. But if that same spinner is flaring birds in a managed area and the same stupid hunter leaves it out, and THAT causes other parties in the field to say "you know, I don't think I'll be coming back here, because I'm not getting very many quality shooting chances," then it IS the DNREs problem. Why? Because they need all the funding they can get, and the ability to demonstrate a high number of hunter trips helps to secure that funding. If we want to keep our Managed Areas - and we should all want that - we need to do whatever it takes to keep them funded. Even if that means putting our precious spinners away. 

It's a three year trial. The conclusions won't lie. I'm curious to see how it plays out.


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## PuddleJumper (Sep 23, 2009)

franky said:


> We can do that, And I'll send a letter out to the mallards and the geese to make sure they spread out evenly into all the hunting zones. So only 100 mallards in this zone with 50 geese, and 100 in another zone and 50 geese.
> 
> Thing is, different fields produce when others just might not. Theres always that field that nobody wants to take because they don't shoot many ducks there. I know at fish point fields around the refuge kill the most ducks. It would have to be a whole managed area rather than just parts of the area.


Uhmm... Comparable fields. It cant be said any clearer. Based on "expected results" you wont need your "letter"- the spinners will keep the ducks and geese away. 

I'm just saying- I'm interested in what the results will be. To be true results, as many factors as possible need to be constant to be comparable and useful. Otherwise, it's just a pile of data that can't be used to isolate the effect of SPINNERS on hunters and waterfowl.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

thank you Shlwego. please read his thread over and over and over. he spelled it out pretty good. I don't have the hard facts yet but if i was to guess, he's pretty close with how it will go down. hunter trips don't lie. if there is more hunter trips on average over 3year period compared to the previous 3 years. I can bet they will not change anything. If they lose hunter trips (very possible) then they will look to make changes.


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## FPWA (Aug 7, 2010)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> i'm not sure how active the fish point association is with the dnr up there, but if you have ideas, by all means i think the dnr is open to them if they make sense. I know that russ mason is encouraging the local groups to communicate to the dnr as much as possible....so the message i can give is everyone get involved where you like to hunt...most are dying to have help and some young blood in their organizations to carry on the tradition and keep these places running.


 

We have been and are in constant contact with the DNRE and have been for the past 10 years since we have become an organization to support the Fish Point area. As expected, we have many other priorities and issues here at FP that we have been concentrating on and have been very successful. If anyone would like to invest their money where they know it will benefit the area that they hunt, we welcome everyone to become a member and attend meetings to inform us on their ideas and concerns. All of the monies raised by the FPWA go directly, no questions asked, back into the area. Please visit our website, PM or email anytime for info on past and present projects that we have been/are involved with. While you're there, fill out an application to to help contribute to one of our great managed waterfowl areas and voice your opinion. Thanks for your support!


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

FPWA said:


> We have been and are in constant contact with the DNRE and have been for the past 10 years since we have become an organization to support the Fish Point area. As expected, we have many other priorities and issues here at FP that we have been concentrating on and have been very successful. If anyone would like to invest their money where they know it will benefit the area that they hunt, we welcome everyone to become a member and attend meetings to inform us on their ideas and concerns. All of the monies raised by the FPWA go directly, no questions asked, back into the area. Please visit our website, PM or email anytime for info on past and present projects that we have been/are involved with. While you're there, fill out an application to to help contribute to one of our great managed waterfowl areas and voice your opinion. Thanks for your support!


good deal!


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## Wingmaster22 (Oct 29, 2003)

my goodness this thing has run amuck.........

i can only say one thing. i'm from southeast side of state and have probably hunted shia 40 times in the last 3 years. i can't wait for this year because IMO the hunting will improve dramatically. we'll be able to shoot decoying geese again and that proverbial spinner wall will no longer be there. ducks will actually have a chance to work the back fields....calling, setup and hiding properly will actually matter. simply put the better hunters will kill more ducks. isn't that the way its supposed to be?

and seriously fellas, if this was left up to our government do you really think ANYTHING would actually get accomplished? they would study this thing to death and then say they couldn't finish because of budget crunches. i applaud SFCHA for accomplishing what they think will improve the area for everyone.

btw i'm 120 miles from the place and knew exactly what SFCHA was trying to do well before this ban was approved. 

OK i feel better now, please carry on.:lol::lol:


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## donbtanner (Sep 26, 2007)

Whoo Hooo!!!!......... September 1st I'm gonna pop the biggest friggin Goose roost this side of the MS. river!!!!!! I gonna shoot at daybreak while they sit on the water from 100 yds. out...foregoing the plug in the gun..... gonna walk into the malaise and finish em off with a 9 iron............ Fore!!!!!!! Im gonna have all the kids and the wife in the truck so I can fill their limits too.......... Gonna be much more fun than cryin about spinners @ the Shia....... Whoo Hooooooo!!!!! 

Anybody watchin Swamp People on History Channel? Thats my peeps........... Really, I have met Troy before....... He's an Atchafalaya basin legend..........


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## Mike L (Sep 8, 2003)

donbtanner said:


> Whoo Hooo!!!!......... September 1st I'm gonna pop the biggest friggin Goose roost this side of the MS. river!!!!!! I gonna shoot at daybreak while they sit on the water from 100 yds. out...foregoing the plug in the gun..... gonna walk into the malaise and finish em off with a 9 iron............ Fore!!!!!!! Im gonna have all the kids and the wife in the truck so I can fill their limits too.......... Gonna be much more fun than cryin about spinners @ the Shia....... Whoo Hooooooo!!!!!
> 
> Anybody watchin Swamp People on History Channel? Thats my peeps........... Really, I have met Troy before....... He's an Atchafalaya basin legend..........


He sure had a boat load of gators I tell ya. That last one was one "Big" gator. I'll stick to smaller game with "No" teeth thank you very much ?
.........


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Mike L said:


> He sure had a boat load of gators I tell ya. That last one was one "Big" gator. I'll stick to smaller game with "No" teeth thank you very much ?
> .........


Sounded like Cuz yelling to shoot a cripple when he was yelling to shoot that gator.


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## duckbuster808 (Sep 9, 2005)

donbtanner said:


> Whoo Hooo!!!!......... September 1st I'm gonna pop the biggest friggin Goose roost this side of the MS. river!!!!!! I gonna shoot at daybreak while they sit on the water from 100 yds. out...foregoing the plug in the gun..... gonna walk into the malaise and finish em off with a 9 iron............ Fore!!!!!!! Im gonna have all the kids and the wife in the truck so I can fill their limits too.......... Gonna be much more fun than cryin about spinners @ the Shia....... Whoo Hooooooo!!!!!
> 
> Anybody watchin Swamp People on History Channel? Thats my peeps........... Really, I have met Troy before....... He's an Atchafalaya basin legend..........


Water Swattin' a roost...man that's the best feeling in the world isn't it! can't wait to do it come Sept. 1st :evilsmile hehehe........
And I agree with Mike L.....I'll stick to the game that doesn't BITE back...atleast not with teeth anyway lol


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## ScavengerMan (Sep 6, 2006)

duckbuster808 said:


> Water Swattin' a roost...man that's the best feeling in the world isn't it! can't wait to do it come Sept. 1st :evilsmile hehehe........



Who ya gunna call?.......Roost busters!!!


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## duckbuster808 (Sep 9, 2005)

ScavengerMan said:


> Who ya gunna call?.......Roost busters!!!


hahaha.....Lets just hope they don't show up on the roost my geese will be coming off of, because if all works out, should make for a good morning in the field!


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

I have come to the conclusion that the so called 40,000 watefowlers MI has is to small a number to come to any kind of consensus. There is not enough folks to make a majority on one side or the other. And one thing is for sure, there IS passion on both sides of the fence, just look at the other bashing thread for season dates.


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## MCMANN (Jan 13, 2010)

Kid

can you tell me what the kill numbers were at shi before the robo duck and what the numbers are now?


seems to me at FP kill numbers have went up since robos but not positive 

this question isnt for any kind of back lash just want to know if they have made a impact on the kill numbers thats it 

thanks

mike


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

MCMANN said:


> Kid
> 
> can you tell me what the kill numbers were at shi before the robo duck and what the numbers are now?
> 
> ...


when did spinners come out in mass? can you remember the year?

I think we have been on a steady climb in kill numbers up til 2006. last 3 years have not even came close to peak in 06'. we've had good growing (crop) years in the late 2000's vs. no water in early 2000's. 90's were lots of water and bad fields....also 3 bird limitations so would be hard to get that stat to go apples to apples. 

i remember the first year (maybe early 2000's) we used them only a few of us had them....then more and more got them. Most of early ones were homemade... then the last 2-3 years has been an arms race. i know i own about 12 of them and a couple vortex's...total between me and my dad. I can name a dozen friends who have the same or more.


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