# I don't know if everyone saw the official season dates



## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

goosemanrdk said:


> You are flat out right wrong about that, as have first hand knowledge of DNRE biologic HARVEST DATA that says to the contrary.


 
Do you believe everything the DNRE tells you?:evilsmile


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

FullBody said:


> Well if the harvest data is all based on an early opener, how would you know he's wrong about a later opener?


Well, seeing as in the last 20+ years, we have had openers the first saturday of October, second saturday of October and 3rd saturday October and that data has been kept for ALL of those seasons, well nuff said.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

waterfowlhunter83 said:


> :sad: I wish we could pick our own 60 day season (or what ever the frame work allows)...back to reality :lol:


I choose March 1 - May 1


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

Huntermax-4 said:


> Do you believe everything the DNRE tells you?:evilsmile


Do you disregard your physicians education?

Last time I checked, Dead ducks don't lie(except in the bottom of the boat).


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

goosemanrdk said:


> You are flat out right wrong about that, as have first hand knowledge of DNRE biologic HARVEST DATA that says to the contrary.


So it comes to comments like this!! Allright "Jack", whatever you say. Last I checked, it doesn't take a biology degree to count.


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## Chez29 (May 11, 2008)

Not that happy about the UP season dates, for most hunters it gives us about a 50 day season.:rant: My biggest problem isnt the Oct start as much as we lose out on about 10 days of hunting with those dates. A vast majority of the UP is strictly a fly over area for migrations due to lack of food. Only along the Lake Michigan shoreline do huntable numbers of birds congregate late in the season. These dates either cuts your season down or you have to travel to these big water areas and have the equipment to hunt these areas as opposed to the last week of Sept when there are large numbers of birds all across the area that are huntable without specialized equipment. You would think in the drive to increase hunter numbers this would be considered important.

 I liked the idea others have mentioned of splitting the UP into two zones. My thought was to run along county lines say Alger, Marquette and Dickinson counties and everything to the west is zone 1, Menominee, Delta, Schoolcraft and everything to east is zone 2 along with NLP. Zone 1 season would be same as last year with a end of Sept open split around Nov 20 and 3-4 day at end of month. Zone 2 same as zone 2 this year. 

Why we cant have a defined season is beyond me. Every year it switches they need to set dates for each possible scenario and everyone will no well ahead what the options are. An example would be in zone 1 60 day season opens on last weekend of Sept with a 3 or 4 day split, a 45 day season opens first weekend of Oct with a 2 week split at end of Oct reopen Nov 7-21, and 30 day season open first week of Oct for 10 days split reopen Nov 1 for 20 days. Just my thoughts.


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## highcaliberconsecrator (Oct 16, 2009)

goosemanrdk said:


> Do you disregard your physicians education?


 YES, I have good reason. Thinking about seeing a vet instead (ya know, two for one with my dog.)



TSS Caddis said:


> I choose March 1 - May 1


 Exactly what I was thinking. But where would you put the split? Remember to make this new season as difficult as possible.


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

field-n-feathers said:


> So it comes to comments like this!! Allright "Jack", whatever you say. Last I checked, it doesn't take a biology degree to count.


Then count this(an example of my point, not the exact numbers):

October 2 openers, avg:350 dead ducks at check point:
119 wood ducks
58 teal
142 Mallards
31 others

October 9 opener, avg 370 dead ducks at check point:
129 wood ducks
42 teal
159 mallards
40 others

October 16 opener, avg 225 dead ducks at check point:
46 wood ducks
3 teal
145 mallards
31 others

Check out the wood duck and teal numbers "Jack"

And from what I was told, by a DNRE person whom I respect and trust, that the actual numbers paint an even more drastic number. Even he was drastically surprised by the numbers when he looked at them. 

And just as it should be done, these surveys of "dead ducks" are taken at the same places year after year, as that is how you maintain validity. Just like when the USFWS flys the same transects year, after year, after year doing their population surveys.

How would like it if the DNRE employees came into your place of employment and told you that the work you were doing was incorrent, even though they have no education or training in your trade. That is EXACTLY what you are doing to them!!!!!!


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## jward (Feb 16, 2009)

I have to argue on the wood ducks. I have seen and shot them well into Nov. In fact on several occasions I have shot woodies when their was snow on the ground . In my neck of the woods they generally stick around untill mid to late Nov.
I like to know where they suveying their dead ducks.



jward


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## Water_Hazard (Aug 16, 2006)

jward said:


> I have to argue on the wood ducks. I have seen and shot them well into Nov. In fact on several occasions I have shot woodies when their was snow on the ground . In my neck of the woods they generally stick around untill mid to late Nov.
> I like to know where they suveying their dead ducks.
> 
> 
> ...


There is no doubt that there is wood ducks here in November. 

I can go to southwest Michigan today and find mallards. Does that mean we should push for the earliest season possible?


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

goosemanrdk said:


> How would like it if the DNRE employees came into your place of employment and told you that the work you were doing was incorrent, even though they have no education or training in your trade. That is EXACTLY what you are doing to them!!!!!!



That's exactly what you did to me. I'm not new to hunting waterfowl in my area. I think the number of years I've put into it entitles me to an opinion.

You need to go back and read my post. Nowhere in my post did I dispute their education and/or training, nor yours for that matter. You are the one that came on and said that my statement is erroneous, which I take offense to. I'm not quite sure what button I pushed with you, but that is unwarranted. 

I don't know from what location those numbers are pulled from, but it's not an accurate sample of anywhere around me, I'll guarantee you that. Do you really expect me to believe that there are 25% less wood ducks around SW Michigan on Oct. 16th than on Oct. 2nd? I can believe that given a start date of Oct. 2nd, and a continuous harvest survey at the same location would yield lower numbers though. In addition, that survey tells us nothing about hunter numbers on those particular dates either. 

This is the only thing those numbers tell me......That on a given opening day, in an undisclosed location, a certain unknown number of hunters harvested this number of ducks. Nothing more.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Water_Hazard said:


> There is no doubt that there is wood ducks here in November.
> 
> I can go to southwest Michigan today and find mallards. Does that mean we should push for the earliest season possible?


not a valid argument. reason for acknowledging woodies are here in later season is thats when the highest concentration of birds pass through...basically negating the argument that we need an earlier season to shoot woodies. Here in our part of the state you can shoot your 3 woodies almost right up until halloween pretty easily...the only thing that sucks about doing so is you won't shoot nothing but woodies. The places to hunt them usually don't have much else to shoot so its not ideal to target woodies when a full limit of mallards is more ideal.

the only bird worth noting as an early exit is the teal. that you can argue.


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

Water_Hazard said:


> There is no doubt that there is wood ducks here in November.
> 
> I can go to southwest Michigan today and find mallards. Does that mean we should push for the earliest season possible?


I'm beginning to think that in some people's opinion it does.


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> ....the only bird worth noting as an early exit is the teal. that you can argue.


I can agree with you there.


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## Water_Hazard (Aug 16, 2006)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> Here in our part of the state you can shoot your 3 woodies almost right up until halloween pretty easily...the only thing that sucks about doing so is you won't shoot nothing but woodies. The places to hunt them usually don't have much else to shoot *so its not ideal to target woodies* *when a full limit of mallards is more ideal.
> *
> the only bird worth noting as an early exit is the teal. that you can argue.


For you and me, you are correct. However, there is people that only buy there license to hit that backyard swamp to target wood ducks. Each week you take away in October, you are taking away from their season. Just like each week you take away in December, you are taking away from others seasons. That is why I think the seasons are at a pretty good median for the variety of hunters and areas in the southern zone.


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

field-n-feathers said:


> That's exactly what you did to me. I'm not new to hunting waterfowl in my area. I think the number of years I've put into it entitles me to an opinion.
> 
> *Yes your right, your years does entitle you to an OPINION, but you comment on things as if you have a biology degree. Do you? If not, then what suddenly makes you smarter than the guys/gals who do have biology degrees. *
> 
> ...


Why should you get everything that you want and the other guy get nothing. Ie. You hunting fully into freeze up for mallards, and the woodduck guys only hunting the tail end of that migration?


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## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

goosemanrdk said:


> Why should you get everything that you want and the other guy get nothing. Ie. You hunting fully into freeze up for mallards, and the woodduck guys only hunting the tail end of that migration?


 
I'm going out on a limb here and saying that most guys would rather shoot mallards than woodies when given the choice. Therefore you're not taking anything away from the woodduck guys....not our fault they can't put on there big boy pants and get out of the house once the temperature drops below 40 degrees!:gaga:


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

Huntermax-4 said:


> not our fault they can't put on there big boy pants and get out of the house once the temperature drops below 40 degrees!:gaga:


Again, since they don't hunt like you, they don't/shouldn't matter. Nice!! Last time I checked, they bought the same licenses as you and I and everyone else did.


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## Water_Hazard (Aug 16, 2006)

Huntermax-4 said:


> I'm going out on a limb here and saying that most guys would rather shoot mallards than woodies when given the choice. Therefore you're not taking anything away from the woodduck guys....not our fault they can't put on there big boy pants and get out of the house once the temperature drops below 40 degrees!:gaga:


I'm not a biologist, but from my observations, there is alot less waterfowl hunters afield when it gets cold out or froze out. That leads me to believe that a majority of the hunters are "fair weather" hunters.


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

Here we go again. First, my degree is irrelevant to this conversation as I am not the one that ultimately has the responsibility to set the season dates. I am just like many others on this site that have an extremely passionate stance on what I feel is best for my area.

Again, I would advise you to look at one of my first posts regarding the season dates. I tried at that time to let you know that I had harvest data which many feel is pertinent information that, in general, would support the SW Michigan stance of a later season. Here is your response to that post:

"I am also fairly certain, that most of those banded birds are being harvested by diehards, like those of us on this site, rather than the majority of hunters who hunt in the early season." OK. Is this not discrediting?

So, you get on my case for asking clarification about surveys that most people have never heard of or seen. You give ME crap for having an educated and informed opinion. 

At the same time, you went so far as to say you agreed with me in regards of what would be best for SW Michigan. And I quote:

" I know what would work best for SW Michigan as well. Don't get me wrong I personally want what you want, but by being on CWAC, I have to consider the entire picture."

So, I guess if we are making some observations here.......Is this not the pot calling the kettle black? 

My stance hasn't changed. Sure there are different ideas that I can support, but they all have a later SW Michigan season in common. I welcome any and all information that I can get regarding the topic. Why is it when I ask the questions that most people are thinking, I'm the one discrediting things? I see a bunch of numbers posted up and I'm suddenly the d***?

In addition, never have I felt in any way that I should get what I want at the expense of others. That's not my nature at all. However, there is an equatable compromise that can and should be reached.


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

BigDog25 said:


> Bellyup...How many CWAC meetings or NRC Meetings have you attended over the years? How many more than 70 do you think the professionals should do then? Granted there are only about 130 total employees in the entire state of Michigan Wildlife Division? Are you saying if they added say 10 more, that it would make the data that much stronger? That's right, I'll bet the dnr guys who I'm guessing would much rather be out hunting than talking to people with chips on their shoulder all day, are just skewing the data and making it up right? Probably the same for opening day of deer season, hunters aren't really shooting 1.5 year olds as 90% of their deer harvest and then cry why we don't have big bucks like other states...I'm sure the dnr are makin it up because they are mad they can't be out hunting and enjoying the natural resources they managed, instead they get to hear the peanut gallery tell their barstool knowledge and spout off all day.... The USFWS should make an online committee for the Mississippi flyways, because that way the internet biologists could argue for the next 10 years about season dates and then spend the next 10 years saying how that season didn't fit their agenda. Actually, why haven't you applied for a job with Natural Resources, because you seem to know it all clearly....I think there is a job at DU for Regional Coordinator of the Great Lakes...I'm sure they are looking for someone that hunts one small region, only cares about himself, and adds nothing worthwhile or meaningful to anything that doesn't have its roots from self centered-ness, rather than level headed, scientific approaches. We all know migrations are fueled on the exact same dates of the year....hell once I stopped at the bridge and there was a Canvasback there at Clyde's drive in and I said, "hey what are you doing here, its December 1st, you should be in Lake St. Clair. He thanked me for reminding him, that he forgot it was a leap year and away he went. Just like the geese on Hudson Bay, it doesn't matter if they get 3 feet of snow or -10, The day after our split, no matter what date it is, they back their bags and hit the road south and the first spot amongst 1500 miles is your corner of SW Michigan and they set down, because we all know there are no other spots that they can find between here and there. You waste your breath griping on here, when why don't you focus your energy on trying to become a CWAC Member or to get your voice heard to the NRC or DNRE (Not DNREQ, which doesn't exist)...You are less than 1 hr from where 85% of the NRC Meetings are held and I bet if I read through all the minutes on the DNRE's website I wouldn't see your name a single place for the Appearances From the Public Portion. I wish there was a crying emoticon to insert here -> with a diaper on sucking his thumb.


I don't even know your name, mine is Dave, I see you looked at my profile, as you know where I am from. Good research. I tried to do some to, but your profile is blank. 

If you want to follow some of my other posts, feel free, you might find out I have asked already. I have no clue who CWAC, NRC is, etc. I learned of it on here a year ago and asked questions. I don't know when the meetings are because they are not posted in a real easy place to find. WHy is it difficult ? It shouldn't be. 

As for facts, I took a stats class once... pretty basic stuff really, and your response tells me what you know about science. Stats is not science. In fact, it might be the furthest thing from it. I have said nothing on biology because I am not an expert, admitted that many times. What I am is passionate. When one is passionate, one wants to be involved. It is when you get shat upon like you are doing that is squashes this passion. I have had nothing but praise for our volunteers. They asked for feedback, I am giving it, how am I wrong for doing what they asked and trying to get my point across on this forum where they asked ? Sir, would you walk up to the prettiest girl in the bar knowing she had a boyfriend but never met him and hit on her ? That would be stupid, as he might be you best friends dad, or some mean sob. Do some research prior to asking her out... 

Now then, back to the action. To have an accurate sampling, I still think you need more than 70 areas to be polled. You might need 100 folks in 200 areas or something like that ? That would be nearly half if there is really 40,000 waterfowlers. I would go along with that poll. 

Maybe I was stupid and did not understand the survey they did ?


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

Bellyup said:


> I don't even know your name, mine is Dave, I see you looked at my profile, as you know where I am from. Good research. I tried to do some to, but your profile is blank.
> 
> If you want to follow some of my other posts, feel free, you might find out I have asked already. I have no clue who CWAC, NRC is, etc. I learned of it on here a year ago and asked questions. I don't know when the meetings are because they are not posted in a real easy place to find. WHy is it difficult ? It shouldn't be.
> 
> ...


Well, I guess you are going to be one of the ones that is never happy unless you get exactly what YOU need. You have made that very clear through many of your comments.


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

You know, I THOUGHT I was helping out by providing constructive feredback for how I feel my area should work. Doable solutions have been presented. You seem DEAD set on insisting fact is what you represent, yet there is always this deal of this is my best guess or from memory on the stats. While I hold nothing personal against you, as you do have a thankless job, it seems you are taking what most are saying personal. When I say most, I mean the small population on this forum. Whatever man. You ASKED for my input, do you want me to post the private message where you asked ? You told me to call you you were interested in hearing what I had to say. I told you, you agreed, and explained more ot me than any other dam person on this forum, or in person, and I mean EVERYONE. I am richer for talking to you, because you took the time. Everyone else seems to assume we all know everything. Well I admitted many times I don't. I am learning. I knew of the CWAC meeting in Bay City from some obscure post on this forum. I don't feel I could attend because I am uniformed to the process. Shame on me. 

I am sure of one thing though, the process sucks, everyone seems to think they know everything and they listen to you and then tell you you are an idiot... that's sad, no wonder the country is in the shape it is. 

I asked for representation for SW MI, you responded, and now you tell me you are sorry you ever talked to me ? Impressive. 

Y'all an have it, I want no part of it anymore, talk about a bunch of kids. No wonder people get pissed off and quit hunting. Nobody listens to the common person anymore. 

I will try to keep my opinions to myself from now on.


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## Cardinal (Nov 2, 2005)




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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

Bellyup said:


> You know, I THOUGHT I was helping out by providing constructive feredback for how I feel my area should work. Doable solutions have been presented. You seem DEAD set on insisting fact is what you represent, yet there is always this deal of this is my best guess or from memory on the stats. While I hold nothing personal against you, as you do have a thankless job, it seems you are taking what most are saying personal. When I say most, I mean the small population on this forum. Whatever man. You ASKED for my input, do you want me to post the private message where you asked ? You told me to call you you were interested in hearing what I had to say. I told you, you agreed, and explained more ot me than any other dam person on this forum, or in person, and I mean EVERYONE. I am richer for talking to you, because you took the time. Everyone else seems to assume we all know everything. Well I admitted many times I don't. I am learning. I knew of the CWAC meeting in Bay City from some obscure post on this forum. I don't feel I could attend because I am uniformed to the process. Shame on me.
> 
> *Damn right shame on you. You say you want to learn more, and had the perfect opportunity by attending the meeting and YOU choose not to. Had you attended, you would have heard 3/4 of the things I have talked about straight from the mouths of the DNRE waterfowl workgroup, and I wouldn't have to give you my best recollection of the discussions. Sorry I didn't keep good enough details in the info for you. You could have attended, and then had most of that info for yourself. You preach all this "I want to learn more", but when given the the perfect opportunity to do so, you don't and then want people to feel sorry for you. Impressive!*
> 
> ...


Hey man I never promised you anything, except explanations.


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## anon12162011 (Jun 9, 2009)

Bellyup said:


> I asked for representation for SW MI


 
If you mainly hunt in Battle Creek, you aren't in SW Michigan, sorry man....thats central. Grew up and still do a huge majority of my hunting in SW Michigan in Southern Van Buren and Central Berrien Counties and none of the hunting there matches ANYTHING you have spoke about this entire time....thank god you aren't my cwac rep or I'd be up **** creek without a paddle! If I hunted in a small radius all season, then a certian framework of dates on certain years would matter, coupled along with the weather, fronts, and bird movements, its out of my control, so I see most of the dates as a mute point. I started last year in Menominee County, then Lake County for the Middle Zone, then from Muskegon to Lansing, Southward to the Indiana border...the dates for me in most years are just that dates. What they have always allowed for is a solid block of time I can plan my hunts for the season and be happy what happens then and avoid freezeup most of the time. I can remember years of going to hunt and the launches being so frozen in December that we couldn't hunt..I would much rather have some mediocre milder weather hunting, than being frozen out and being screwed out of a hunt. Seems that Rob and the other new CWAC Member from Dowagiac, as well as Ron Sefcik who was the previous SW MI rep have strived pretty darn hard to represent the "common guys", remember they are just part of a much larger ADVISORY panel, but one minute you are saying you should have more of a voice do due how much you hunt and the next minute you are saying the common man doesn't have a voice...Sorry man, but I'd call that not having a leg to stand on.


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## Ieatantlers (Oct 7, 2008)

BigR said:


> Call me crazy, but some of my best hunts have been shared with good people, good coffee and donuts, a wet dog, a phenomenal sunrise, that flock we should've shot at, and a few birds on a lanyard are just a bonus to it all.


I hear that from a lot of people, and I respect what you are saying, but personally, I will never feel that way in my entire life. If that was the case, there are a lot of things I could do to get the same companionship without waking up so damn early and putting so much work in. 

My best hunts consist of mallards bombing in out of the fog where you can hear a flock of 50 of them before you can see them. Limit in an hour and a half. Shooting a limit of geese with a bonus collar. Etc, etc. Sure, I will always remember who I was with and shared the awesome experiences with, but never once was I thinking "Man, we shot too many ducks today." It's like the deer hunter who claims they would be just as happy shooting a spike as a ten point, but if they were side by side, he would shoot the 10 point every time. Or the deer waiter on t.v. who says "Well we didn't get one this time, but I had just as much fun without killing one" Yeah right! Then bring a camera instead!

There wouldn't be this much arguing over season dates if it wasn't about killing ducks. I might be the only one to admit it, but killing ducks in numbers adds a lot of fun to any hunt.


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## anon12162011 (Jun 9, 2009)

Don't get me wrong, I have had some phenomenal hunts for both ducks and geese and piled them up as high as the videos, however, at least for me, those hunts are far and few between. Maybe what keeps me going back is the "what if" factor of maybe tommorrow will be the day the stars align and it happens again, but 90% of the time thats not the case for me and it has to be something else that is bringing me back and getting me up and out everyday I can, which is normally about 2 mornings and 2 evening hunts a week on average due to work, some weeks more, but rarely less....I can count on 2 hands the number of times we have "limited" out on ducks or geese with a large group of guys and those days are something I will always cherish...Not saying I have ever thought "oh man we shot too many ducks today" thats not at all what I was saying, just saying that as a whole if a person gauges any hunting success on "their limit" or "hero kill shots" or what stories they can brag/ego boost, then in my opinion, they fall in a minority, because I know that on here or elsewhere there are alot of guys that have had VERY few limit hunts, if any at all, and something has to keep them going back. This turkey season I hunted 12 of the ~30 days allowed during the May season, never fired my gun, but had 2 close encounters of Tom's. What would keep me going back for that 13th day if I had the chance? The what if factor, the sunrise, finding a few mushrooms, hearing the Tom's sound off on the roost...I think my best numbers duck hunt in Michigan was 24 ducks on opening day of 2004 in Hastings with 3 other guys in roughly 45 minutes or the 24 duck day when I lived in Missouri in 30 minutes with 6 species represented, or the time in Barry County we shot 20 geese before we could even get in our layout blinds or finish brushing them for that matter, but you can call me crazy, but when I get to talking with people of hunts of years gone by, those aren't the first hunts I think of off the top of my head.


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

BigR said:


> Don't get me wrong, I have had some phenomenal hunts for both ducks and geese and piled them up as high as the videos, however, at least for me, those hunts are far and few between. Maybe what keeps me going back is the "what if" factor of maybe tommorrow will be the day the stars align and it happens again, but 90% of the time thats not the case for me and it has to be something else that is bringing me back and getting me up and out everyday I can, which is normally about 2 mornings and 2 evening hunts a week on average due to work, some weeks more, but rarely less....I can count on 2 hands the number of times we have "limited" out on ducks or geese with a large group of guys and those days are something I will always cherish...Not saying I have ever thought "oh man we shot too many ducks today" thats not at all what I was saying, just saying that as a whole if a person gauges any hunting success on "their limit" or "hero kill shots" or what stories they can brag/ego boost, then in my opinion, they fall in a minority, because I know that on here or elsewhere there are alot of guys that have had VERY few limit hunts, if any at all, and something has to keep them going back. This turkey season I hunted 12 of the ~30 days allowed during the May season, never fired my gun, but had 2 close encounters of Tom's. What would keep me going back for that 13th day if I had the chance? The what if factor, the sunrise, finding a few mushrooms, hearing the Tom's sound off on the roost...I think my best numbers duck hunt in Michigan was 24 ducks on opening day of 2004 in Hastings with 3 other guys in roughly 45 minutes or the 24 duck day when I lived in Missouri in 30 minutes with 6 species represented, or the time in Barry County we shot 20 geese before we could even get in our layout blinds or finish brushing them for that matter, but you can call me crazy, but when I get to talking with people of hunts of years gone by, those aren't the first hunts I think of off the top of my head.


Not sure that it could have been said any better than that.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Seems simple to me. 

There are 2 types of things on the table. Feel free to point out if I'm missing something.


*Waterfowl Management Tools* 
Regulations, Policies etc... that are used to actually manage waterfowl harvest and numbers. IMO, the biologists should be solely responsible for what these are and how they are implemented. Limits being one tool. IMO, public should not be involved.

*Social Tools*
Regulations, Policies etc... that are used to manage hunter participation, hunter satisfaction etc... IMO, since these rules are made for the public to make their experience better, then duck hunters should be polled for their input. No need to poll 100% of waterfowlers. Picked a statistically significant number and poll them.

If season dates are more social regulation than a management tool, then use the polls the DNR did to set season dates. If season dates are to manage waterfowl populations, then turn it over to the biologists to decide.


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## Branta (Feb 6, 2002)

We won't close this one down (yet) if you guys can keep it from spinning out.

CWAC reps, a seat on CWAC is a thankless position and we certainly appreciate your service. In a way though, you should feel a certain obligation to contact/inform people through this site and others where you feel you would be communicating with your constituents. 

by charge, you are the voice of your region (or orgs) at these meetings, so you should be soliciting input/feedback and communicating with them.

Don't let the fire and brimstone of public commentary here or elsewhere dissuade you from your charge. At the same time, don't discount peoples opinions either. Everyone is entitled to speak their minds (within reason , of course!)

and don't think I don't know what it's like because I've been there.... done that. 

~~~~~~
to all:

try not to look at things in a bubble. As it relates to season starts/stops, I think it's always helpful to look at other states around us to see what they're doing for comparison. Not saying they do it right, but it's always helpful to understand what's going on around you. (especially when you throw out "creative" season scenarios that would ultimately have to be backed by the NRC.)

I think if you took less than 5 min (like I just did), you'd see some interesting points to talk about in relation to our own season setting structure.

Especially this debate about SW Michigan and again what that jan split is costing us.


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

Thanks Branta. 

To all that seem to be offended by my opinions, sorry, but it is what it is. 

SW Mi is Battle Creek, it is defined as such by every news channel, weather forcast, etc. You can call it central or whatever, i could care less about the classifications. All iknow is much better hunting could be had in December. That is all I am advocating for, period. We have never gotten it, I have talked to CO's who don't even know how the season dates are set. I asked them once along time ago, how do we ask for a later season in the south zone. He had no clue how to go about it. 

So with the itnernet comes information, like a highway. Some old school folks like myself get on here and we are expected to know everything about the process, and if we screw up, dam us. 

Since I am in the minority as Rob has pointed out so many times, and I am selfish idiot apparently, I feel my opinions are pointless to make. I do know one thing, I would like for a CWAC rep to actually act on opinions from its constituents, or members whatever you call it they represent, insted of listening and then saying not a chance no way in hell is that goping to happen, and fight so hard for that to not be the case, and point out how selfish we are. Who am I suppose to represent ? An area I don't hunt ? I can't speak to the whole friggin state, sure I do a couple hunts around the state now and again, but I don't know squat like I do in my home area. So I can only offer my opinions to my area, if that is selfish than to bad. It is at least an experienced opinion based on EXPERIENCE and not some survery that may or may not be accurate becasue folks can actually lie on those questions. 

..... Go hunt and have fun, I intend to. To many friggin chiefs and not enough indians around here.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Bellyup said:


> Go hunt and have fun, I intend to. To many friggin chiefs and not enough indians around here.


better watch it, chief Running With Branta may call in for backup via. smoke cloud to Just Layin With Duckies and organize an internet smackdown on you .


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

I don't really care, and to be honest, i harbor no hard feelings to anyone. I stated my opinions, they disagreed, so be it. Just to bad it got carried away, I know better. This was my first dealing with CWAC or anything like it, so now I know what the majority is up against.


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## Branta (Feb 6, 2002)

there will be no smacking of or by any member - Just about had my fill of flaming posts.

If people think CWAC actually sets the dates and a Puppet MDNRe staff just falls in line with the whims of "boys clubs, cwac and special interest groups", well you're sadly mistaken. I can tell you that on multiple occassions, the final season framework did not resemble what was passed at the previous CWAC meetings. 

Yeah, some reps were pretty hot about it too. I think to some, it was a bit of a reminder for themselves that they are but one cog in the wheel, one info stream and that they advise - they don't dictate framework. 

again, I'm a bit confounded about the UP start date (seems contrary to the charge of more overlap for duck/goose and simplification of regulations (constantly changing opener for UP).), but they probably said they would support either opening date going into the CWAC meeting, so there you go.

and don't think the DNR didn't already have an idea of what the season would look like, what they could live with - (think about it; who goes into any meeting/negotiation unprepared?)


the up start date has me shaking my head, but everything else seemed a near slam dunk.

I'll take bets now though that they'll revert back to late sept start next year!!
(and so the cycle will continue.... )


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Branta said:


> ...If people think CWAC actually sets the dates and a Puppet MDNRe staff just falls in line with the whims of "boys clubs, cwac and special interest groups", well you're sadly mistaken. I can tell you that on multiple occassions, the final season framework did not resemble what was passed at the previous CWAC meetings...


In fact several past or present CWAC members can tell you it wasn't too many years ago when the recommendations of the CWAC *seemed* to be getting ignored completely, until a few key people had a talk with the DNRE Director...'nuf said on that issue.

Bottom line is this is a democratic process, and it's not perfect. And like any process it has it's politics and maneuvering that often makes no sense. This UP opener this year is probably just the latest example. 

It's good to be passionate...but it's important to channel it in a positive way, and know when it's time to change the focus. I quoted my 84 year old dad before (maybe even in this thread?)...."you may win the battle, but you'll lose the war"


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## ScavengerMan (Sep 6, 2006)

*ZZZZZZzzzzzz*zzzzzz........

How long can the same old boring topic be hashed over and over where everyone who disagrees with me is a moron? For crying out loud, the seasons are set. How about starting something fresh like a Shiawassee spinner thread?


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## AR34 (Jun 18, 2008)

LOL... I am disappointed that the Thanks Giving opener in Z3 is not available this year. It is a good long weekend to get some goose on..... I really feel for the Z1 guys. I have never hunted the UP but I would guess they need the early opener for a good amount of days to hunt.


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## Water_Hazard (Aug 16, 2006)

AR34 said:


> LOL... I am disappointed that the Thanks Giving opener in Z3 is not available this year. It is a good long weekend to get some goose on.....


I am too. Been taking the kids and my nephew out the last couple years for that.


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## Cardinal (Nov 2, 2005)

Branta said:


> the up start date has me shaking my head, but everything else seemed a near slam dunk.


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## SuperBlackEagle2 (Nov 4, 2005)

ScavengerMan said:


> *ZZZZZZzzzzzz*zzzzzz........
> 
> How long can the same old boring topic be hashed over and over where everyone who disagrees with me is a moron? For crying out loud, the seasons are set. How about starting something fresh like a Shiawassee spinner thread?


It's because there seem to be a LOT of women posting in this forum lately. Cry, cry, cry. Complain, complain, complain. Me, me, me. And on, and on, and on. It's friggin' ridiculous.


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