# CCW notification clarification



## answerguy8 (Oct 15, 2001)

In a previous thread about CCW you said: 


> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 3) You are still subject to the disclosure laws though if contacted by a LEO.


If I recall the law correctly only a person with a CPL _has_ to declare that they are carrying a concealed weapon. If a non CPL holder is legally carrying a concealed weapon is there a _requirement _ that they disclose? I have no arguement that they _should_ disclose to a LEO just wondering about whether they _have_ too.


----------



## chinamigarden (Oct 21, 2005)

Please explain how you can carry a concealed weapon legally without a CPL. Are you specifically asking about while carrying in your home?


----------



## kbkrause (Feb 12, 2002)

answerguy8 said:


> If a non CPL holder is legally carrying a concealed weapon is there a _requirement _ that they disclose? I have no arguement that they _should_ disclose to a LEO just wondering about whether they _have_ too.


 Found this on the MSP web site, not sure if it answers your question. http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10941--,00.html How would you be a nonCPL holder and be carrying concealed leagally? A cop?


----------



## answerguy8 (Oct 15, 2001)

Sorry for the confusion. In this thread:http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=173008

carrying concealed (without a CPL) on one's own property is discussed . And the advice is that it is legal to do so.


----------



## malainse (Sep 2, 2002)

answerguy8 said:


> If I recall the law correctly only a person with a CPL _has_ to declare that they are carrying a concealed weapon. If a non CPL holder is legally carrying a concealed weapon is there a _requirement _ that they disclose? I have no arguement that they _should_ disclose to a LEO just wondering about whether they _have_ too.


You are correct, this section only applies to people with a CPL. Say if you are on your own peoperty/ business you have every right to carry a weapon without a CPL. (unless someother law prevents you from possessing the weapon in the first place)

Depending on the situation it is in your best interest to advise LEO that you have a weapon.......


----------



## answerguy8 (Oct 15, 2001)

malainse said:


> Depending on the situation it is in your best interest to advise LEO that you have a weapon.......


I agree, it's common sense along with common courtesy to tell a LEO that you are carrying a concealed weapon regardless of the legal requirement.


----------



## SabikiRig (May 1, 2004)

Gentleman,

After talking to a in-law that is in law enforcement, there is a limitation in regards to the amount of data that is transmitted during a "rolling" LEIN Check when they run your license plate.

Law Enforcement Officers cannot and and do not know if the registered owner, driver or occupants of a vehicle hold a "valid" CPL. The CPL information will become available after they run your drivers license (for all occupants as well). 

If you are carrying and fail to notify them, your going to be a while.

Another perspective......

Lets say you have a CPL and are not carrying. 

If the officer received a LEIN hit on you during a stop you are holding a Valid CPL and do not identify that you are a CPL holder could this give the officer "Probable Cause" to search your vehicle?

I am no Lawyer but, I would have to say "yes"

Not only to save time but, to promote safety let an Law Enforcement Officer know that your are a CPL holder even if you are not carrying.

I have been stopped Local, County and State Police, US Boarder Patrol/Customs, USCG and the Michigan DNR. Letting them know you have a CPL when you are not carrying goes a long way and saves you some time.


----------



## DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI (Sep 23, 2002)

last time i talked to a leo, he stated that he knew i had a cpl just from my truck plate. which is registered to me thru the state of mi. the same state of my cpl.and oh yes, it's more than a common curtisy to tell any leo anytime even if you don't happen to be carrying. which brings me to the ***major*** issue of , why have a cpl if you don't carry? don't tell me you know when and where you're going to need it! ( i know alot of leo's who would love that little bit of an edge) cause if you do you lied on your app. you are psycho!!!!


----------



## answerguy8 (Oct 15, 2001)

SabikiRig said:


> Gentleman,
> 
> 
> Law Enforcement Officers cannot and and do not know if the registered owner, driver or occupants of a vehicle hold a "valid" CPL. The CPL information will become available after they run your drivers license (for all occupants as well). .


If you are driving a car registered in your wife's name they won't know who you are to see if you have a CPL. But you can count on them knowing (or being able to know) if the car is in your name and you have a CPL.





SabikiRig said:


> If you are carrying and fail to notify them, your going to be a while..


 Agreed.




SabikiRig said:


> Another perspective......
> 
> Lets say you have a CPL and are not carrying.
> 
> ...


And that's why you're not a lawyer, you got the answer wrong. Following the letter of the law in this case is not going to give a LEO probable cause to search your car.





SabikiRig said:


> Not only to save time but, to promote safety let an Law Enforcement Officer know that your are a CPL holder even if you are not carrying. .


Agreed again.




SabikiRig said:


> I have been stopped Local, County and State Police, US Boarder Patrol/Customs, USCG and the Michigan DNR. Letting them know you have a CPL when you are not carrying goes a long way and saves you some time.


You seem to get stopped an awful lot, what is it that you do that attracts so much attention?


----------



## kbkrause (Feb 12, 2002)

DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI said:


> which brings me to the ***major*** issue of , why have a cpl if you don't carry? don't tell me you know when and where you're going to need it!


 Might be going to a church, might be going to school, might be going to a work that does not allow weapons, there are a number of reasons a person would not or could not (legally) carry.


----------



## SabikiRig (May 1, 2004)

answerguy8 said:


> You seem to get stopped an awful lot, what is it that you do that attracts so much attention?


Anwserguy,

Nothing. I have been stopped once driving a couple years ago for a right turn violation.

The rest of the times were when I was a passenger in a friends vehicle or boat or when I was checked during Duck Season.

It is funny how much attention your buddy can draw from the USCG when the Stern Light on his boat does not work! The MI DNR and Boarder Patrol have team patrols now. Chances are when a CO checks you while you are fishing in most cases a Boarder Patrol agent is on the boat too.


----------



## malainse (Sep 2, 2002)

SabikiRig said:


> Gentleman,
> 
> After talking to a in-law that is in law enforcement, there is a limitation in regards to the amount of data that is transmitted during a "rolling" LEIN Check when they run your license plate..


This all depends on how the departments system is set up. Most have MCT's (Mobile Computer Terminal) in patrol cars. Some are set up to just run the vehicle plate information. Others take that one more step and pull the registered owners drivers license number and run that at the same time. If the system is set up to run the Divers license # also it will show, CPL, wants and warrants, license status (suspended or not) ect.



SabikiRig said:


> Law Enforcement Officers cannot and and do not know if the registered owner, driver or occupants of a vehicle hold a "valid" CPL. The CPL information will become available after they run your drivers license (for all occupants as well). .


See above about the driver .. As far as passengers you are correct.


SabikiRig said:


> If you are carrying and fail to notify them, your going to be a while.


You are correct it is a violation of the law. If you are cited/arrested depends on the situation and the officer. LEO's know that everyone is nervous when they are stopped by the police, heck I am..:lol: Even honest CPL holders do forget.


SabikiRig said:


> Lets say you have a CPL and are not carrying.
> 
> If the officer received a LEIN hit on you during a stop you are holding a Valid CPL and do not identify that you are a CPL holder could this give the officer "Probable Cause" to search your vehicle?
> 
> I am no Lawyer but, I would have to say "yes".


18 year's as a LEO/ Sgt I would say this does not give PC to search a car. The officer might ask about the CPL or if you have a weapon becuase you did not tell them, but that is the extent of it. If they did search that would be for a judge to decide. There are a large number of people that have a CPL just for hunting reasons and do not carry all the time. Plus take into the fact that if you have a criminal history that would be of concern to the officer you would not have the CPL in the first place... 



SabikiRig said:


> Not only to save time but, to promote safety let an Law Enforcement Officer know that your are a CPL holder even if you are not carrying.


I agree 100 %

I think I need a nap now....:lol:


----------



## SabikiRig (May 1, 2004)

malainse said:


> 18 year's as a LEO/ Sgt I would say this does not give PC to search a car. The officer might ask about the CPL or if you have a weapon becuase you did not tell them, but that is the extent of it. If they did search that would be for a judge to decide. There are a large number of people that have a CPL just for hunting reasons and do not carry all the time. Plus take into the fact that if you have a criminal history that would be of concern to the officer you would not have the CPL in the first place...
> 
> I agree 100 % I think I need a nap now....:lol:


Like I said, I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV. :lol: Thanks for clarifying things up for me.


----------



## DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI (Sep 23, 2002)

i'am well aware of the legal areas to carry and not to carry! but you do have the right to have it in your vehilce in those areas which are not allowed. also you have the right to carry in church if the priest or pastor, rabbi and or who ever says you can, that is in charge of said facility. therefore that ride to and from these areas you can afford yourself the right to your cpl and its protection under the law (that is if you have a weapon). parking lots are ******legal areas*****


----------



## sullyxlh (Oct 28, 2004)

SabikiRig said:


> If you are carrying and fail to notify them, your going to be a while.


not to HJ this thread gentlemen,but was curious to know if just showing a LEO your CPL is an acceptable means to "notify" or must it be done verbably?


----------



## answerguy8 (Oct 15, 2001)

sullyxlh said:


> not to HJ this thread gentlemen,but was curious to know if just showing a LEO your CPL is an acceptable means to "notify" or must it be done verbably?


Of course it's ok to just show your CPL. If you're doing it like that so that others in your car won't know you are carrying you may find the LEO 'outing' you by asking you where is your gun.


----------



## kbkrause (Feb 12, 2002)

DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI said:


> parking lots are ******legal areas*****


Not according to some employer policies.


----------



## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

Whenever I stop somebody that has a CPL I always appreciate them telling me of the CPL and whether they are armed or not. 

Regardless of the law it's just plain common sense and courtesy...........normally if somebody displays common sense and courtesy there is really no need for enforcement action on the reason for the stop


----------



## DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI (Sep 23, 2002)

I See We Like Redundancy That Is Also Part Of Taking The Class, It Falls Under That Little Thing Called The ****************laws*******************that Govern Compliancy Of Issuance Of The Cpl. And If Your A Bad Boy They Take Away Your ****freedom****because Not Only Are You A Felon But You're Also An Idiot.


----------



## answerguy8 (Oct 15, 2001)

DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI said:


> I See We Like Redundancy That Is Also Part Of Taking The Class, It Falls Under That Little Thing Called The ****************laws*******************that Govern Compliancy Of Issuance Of The Cpl. And If Your A Bad Boy They Take Away Your ****freedom****because Not Only Are You A Felon But You're Also An Idiot.


Come on now Daniel Mark, turn off that Cap key.


----------



## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

answerguy8 said:


> As you know a LEO has some leeway to interpret the laws that s/he will be enforcing but only within the parameters that the department gives them. If the LEO excedes that authority the charge will get tossed and the LEO reprimanded (at the least). That's a big price to pay to 'inturpit' that anyone that he looks at should disclose his CPL to him.



You do it anyway you want to - I, for one, am going to avoid the felony stop kind of BS that is just not warranted for something as simple as disclosure.

To each their own - 

ferg....

Lieing on the street in the 'position' just isn't my idea of fun - and if they find out your carring or someone else just 'mentions it' and you didn't tell, thats part of the pavement your going to be tasteing - I'd rather not.

But feel free -


----------



## sullyxlh (Oct 28, 2004)

the last thing I want to do is make an LEO feel uncomfortable,their already walking on pins and needles when they approach a vehicle
ignition off,hands on top of the wheel,dome light on at night
when they say jump,the correct answer is how high,not go F___ yourself


----------



## answerguy8 (Oct 15, 2001)

sullyxlh said:


> the last thing I want to do is make an LEO feel uncomfortable,their already walking on pins and needles when they approach a vehicle
> ignition off,hands on top of the wheel,dome light on at night
> when they say jump,the correct answer is how high,not go F___ yourself


You're confusing the situation. I'm talking about as a passenger not as the driver. I've been pulled over a couple of times since I got my CPL in 2001. Both times the LEO got instant disclosure from me, as the law requires. I also got no ticket either time.

FWIW- I am absolutely not trying to play games with cops.


----------



## Frantz (Dec 9, 2003)

answerguy8 said:


> You're confusing the situation. I'm talking about as a passenger not as the driver. I've been pulled over a couple of times since I got my CPL in 2001. Both times the LEO got instant disclosure from me, as the law requires. I also got no ticket either time.
> 
> FWIW- I am absolutely not trying to play games with cops.


I do not think anyone is confusing the situation. It is plain and simple, disclose and save yourself a long night of BS that could have been avoided my simply disclosing, cut and dry.


----------



## FASTRNU (Jul 2, 2002)

From MCRGO

Q: If I am a Passenger in my wife's car and she is pulled over by a police officer for a traffic violation, do I have to inform the officer that I am carrying? If so how is that done? 
A: I take the position that in your scenario only your wife has been "stopped" so you would not technically have to disclose. I know other lawyers that say otherwise. But, as a courtesy to law enforcement and your own safety, I teach you should disclose the fact that you are carrying anyway. You just tell the officer that you have a CPL and a gun on your person or in the car. 

Note: It is always recommended that you disclose when in doubt. There is no negative legal consequence to disclosure. The only negative consequence comes from a failure to disclose.


----------



## Leader (Dec 1, 2003)

answerguy8 said:


> To repeat: concealed means concealed, if someone can't understand that they deserve to be spread eagled on the sidewalk.


First of all, open carry is legal here in MI. Second nothing says if you have a CPL you must keep your pistol concealed. If you are carrying a handgun, and you get into a vehicle it becomes concealed & you need a permit but it doesn't have to be out of sight.
The permit gives you permission to hide it but doesn't require that you do.


----------



## answerguy8 (Oct 15, 2001)

Leader said:


> First of all, open carry is legal here in MI. Second nothing says if you have a CPL you must keep your pistol concealed. If you are carrying a handgun, and you get into a vehicle it becomes concealed & you need a permit but it doesn't have to be out of sight.
> The permit gives you permission to hide it but doesn't require that you do.


I'm not sure I get your point.


----------



## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

Keeping with Ray's desire not to let these 'run on on and on ' - he would say somthing like - the law has been posted - read into it what you want -and live with the rest - 

Is that about right ray?

ferg....


----------

