# Heading Out To Paint Creek Sat 7/7/07



## flyfishinchristian (Oct 5, 2006)

back2spool said:


> *The dam is NOT a fixed dam.* It is dropped every winter and raised every spring. As you can imagine, this creates a HUGE rush of water in Oct/Nov which erodes the banks greatly. If you walk the stream from the dam through Meeks Park you will see just how bad the erosion problem is. Coversely, we will have a good flow in the spring and all the sudden one day the water is gone. The Pain by my house might be 3" deep right now. It is ridiculous that one ecosystem (the lake) thrives while the other (the creek) starves. It's all because the lake homeowners have $$$ and the creek homeowners are not organized and do not care.


I don't completely understand how this dam operates, but out of curiosity, do you know if it would be possible to compromise, and do a slow draw over the course of the whole spring and summer?


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## crazyc (Feb 24, 2005)

i walked up that damn and it looks fixed to me
it is all 100%concrete usaully flood gate r metal
un less their is something under lapeer raod that moves that i didnt see


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## back2spool (May 7, 2005)

crazyc said:


> i walked up that damn and it looks fixed to me
> it is all 100%concrete usaully flood gate r metal
> un less their is something under lapeer raod that moves that i didnt see


Hey, I am no hydrologic expert, but I see it every year. 

One day water, next day none in spring...

One day no water, next day class 3 rapids in fall.

You tell me they can't manipulate it somehow.


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## flyfishinchristian (Oct 5, 2006)

I did some research to try and find out how the dam operates. It looks like the dam is a normal gravity based dam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dam#Gravity_dams), but the cold water draw can be operated and turned on when they feel like it... It would be nice to get someone who worked on this project to fill us in on the details.

1.  "The water is generally cooler ... at the bottom of the lake," said Van Den Berg. "When they do a bottom draw, they usually suck small to moderate amounts of water out of the bottom of the lake instead of letting it flow over the impoundment." (http://www.clintonvalleytu.com/articles/CRWC%20-%20op20030411.htm)

2. Paint Creek originates at Lake Orion and ten miles later meets the Clinton River. The Clinton Valley Chapter has conducted restoration projects on the stream since the 1980s. In 1990 the chapter worked with the Michigan Department of Natural Resources (DNR) to create a coldwater draw from the base of the dam on Lake Orion into Paint Creek. Water is piped from the bottom of the lake for 15&#8211;20 feet beneath a highway and into the stream. Eight of the ten miles of creek are now suitable for trout.
(http://www.tu.org/atf/cf/%7B0D18ECB7-7347-445B-A38E-65B282BBBD8A%7D/success-03.pdf)

3. Lake Orion Dam is on Paint Creek in Oakland County, Michigan. Construction was completed in 1829. It has a normal surface area of 470 acres. It is owned by Mdot and Village Of Lake Orion. Lake Orion Dam is a gravity dam. Its height is 18 feet with a length of 760 feet. Maximum discharge is 1010 cubic feet per second. Its capacity is 3600 acre feet. Normal storage is 1800 acre feet. It drains an area of 37 square miles.
(http://findlakes.com/lake_orion_michigan~mi00259.htm)


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## back2spool (May 7, 2005)

flyfishinchristian said:


> I did some research to try and find out how the dam operates. It looks like the dam is a normal gravity based dam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dam#Gravity_dams), but the cold water draw can be operated and turned on when they feel like it... It would be nice to get someone who worked on this project to fill us in on the details.
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I would be SHOCKED if it were always in a fixed position, or not able to be manipulated somehow. Reason being, I am CERTAIN the lake homeowners have it drawn down so that there docks are not damaged by the ice.

I could be 100% wrong, but I SWEAR the flow is gone one day in spring and a deluge in one day in fall. I live right on the creek. Again, I am not an expert, but I see it every year.

Not trying to ruffle feathers, I'd like to know the answer too!!!


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## crazyc (Feb 24, 2005)

please calm down i just said it looked fixed holy chesse wizz batman let not fight about it


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## flyfishinchristian (Oct 5, 2006)

crazyc said:


> please calm down i just said it looked fixed holy chesse wizz batman let not fight about it


On the 4th of July I fished the Paint and it was very shallow compared to where I've seen it before. Trout would have had trouble surviving in that section. So, I was hoping someone in this forum might have worked on the lake bottom cold water draw project, and explain if the paint really has to drop so much in the summer.


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## back2spool (May 7, 2005)

flyfishinchristian said:


> On the 4th of July I fished the Paint and it was very shallow compared to where I've seen it before. Trout would have had trouble surviving in that section. So, I was hoping someone in this forum might have worked on the lake bottom cold water draw project, and explain if the paint really has to drop so much in the summer.


Pretty sure this are regulated lake levels. The lake will not go low to continue to feed the stream. Hypothetically, the stream could go dry if it did not rain for anotherm month. Lake homeowners have the clout, they get the water.


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## quackmaster (Sep 29, 2004)

I went and looked at a house on the lake last week. One of the things that the homeowner mentioned was that every 5 yrs they drop the lake level way down by using the damn and it stays down for almost a month so that the homeowners on the lake can repair/paint their seawalls and clean up their beach. So I am certain that they control the water level and that the homeowners have a say in all of this.


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## back2spool (May 7, 2005)

quackmaster said:


> I went and looked at a house on the lake last week. One of the things that the homeowner mentioned was that every 5 yrs they drop the lake level way down by using the damn and it stays down for almost a month so that the homeowners on the lake can repair/paint their seawalls and clean up their beach. So I am certain that they control the water level and that the homeowners have a say in all of this.


Which makes perfect sense.

Tell them to make sure to drop it drastically it one day as opposed to a gradual drawdown too. That way they can create more erosion problems than there already are. Tell them to make sure to use lead based paints on their seawalls and to dump whatever fertilizer they don't use on their lawns into the lake. It's good for the lake plant life!!

ON a side note, if you are purchasing a home on the lake, best wishes and congratulations. I bet that would be fun...


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## Frogfish101 (Apr 5, 2007)

About the wading part...When in doubt, keep your feet wet. Michigan Riprarian Laws


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