# Lab or Springer or.....??



## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

Looking for some input from the M-S braintrust.
I just had a friend from my RGS chapter email me asking me for an opinion on what breed upland flusher he should be looking into.
I have had Springer envy for a while now but I also kill quite a few grouse over some experienced upland Labs each Fall so I am torn on which way to push him.
Any arguments one way or the other?

-This guy hunts mainly in Michigan maybe a road trip out of state every other year for pheasants.
-A grouse/woodcock hunter
-Knows his way around dogs
-decades of woodsmanship i.e. has good covers.
-Has owned pointers and flushers in the past(pointy types lately)
-spends about 45 days in the woods hunting many more scouting, etc...
-fairly athletic, somewhat fit, age I'd guess late 40's
-will travel for the right fit dog


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## Lucky Dog (Jul 4, 2004)

I have to admit I also suffer from a small dose of springer envy, just a little.

If hunting purely uplands, why not get an upland dog. I'd vote springer.


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## Rysalka (Aug 13, 2008)

Owned, lived with and hunted both.
My vote goes to the Field Bred Springer Spaniel. The Springer personality and size is perfect for me, not to big, not to small, smart (Labs also), easy to live with.
Hunting ability of both (If from hunting lines) is about equal both have good and bad points, (I think Springers have a little more endurance).


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## Mike McDonald (Sep 10, 2007)

I've never had the pleasure of hunting with a springer but I sure like some of my clients springers. That said I take the lab every time. You know I'm biased for 4 of the same reasons you might be, but I've also hunted with 4 or 5 other labs that also did the job well. As the owner of long haired dogs the short easily brushed coat of a lab also appeals. mac


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## michgundog (Feb 22, 2008)

Both are great choices I prefer spaniels because of their size and tenacity. My largest one weighs 42--45 lbs and he&#8217;s a power house. Either one your buddy picks he'll have to train it to stop to the whistle. It&#8217;s real important when hunting running pheasants or keeping up with it in the grouse woods. But that could open up a whole new thread ...(?)


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## ausable riverboat (May 10, 2010)

A friend of mine raises Field Bred Springers and runs them in field trials. Have hunted over them. Excellent dogs.


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

Ive seen a good deal of both work. If there is any chance of any type of water work i would lean toward the lab.

If size is an issue for whatever reason including pet quality stuff around the home...obviously the springer is smaller.

In the field though...a quality bred dog in both varieties should get 'er done. From what ive seen both are heck of companion dogs too.


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

I haven't done much hunting with labs and none with springers. I have seen many of both breeds as pets though and I have to say I've never seen a lab that wasn't a good companion but, I have seen a few nasty springers. 

Just my 02.


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## SalmonBum (Feb 28, 2001)

Gotta throw it in..... my vote is for the lab. With the right line, you can get a lab with the endurance of GPS, etc.... My black lab is a retreive or two and done. My yellow, Wyatt, can go for days and not tire. I still cannot for the life of me figure out how he does it. He can be in the field all day, I'll bring him home thinking he should be out for the rest of the day and he still wants to run out back and do drills. He's nuts.


Either dog breed you decide it really doesn't matter. Dogs are just cool :coolgleam.


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

SalmonBum said:


> Either dog breed you decide it really doesn't matter. Dogs are just cool :coolgleam.


Best input anyone has offered on a thread like this on a long time!


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## Duece22 (Mar 30, 2004)

2ESRGR8 said:


> Looking for some input from the M-S braintrust.
> I just had a friend from my RGS chapter email me asking me for an opinion on what breed upland flusher he should be looking into.
> I have had Springer envy for a while now but I also kill quite a few grouse over some experienced upland Labs each Fall so I am torn on which way to push him.
> Any arguments one way or the other?
> ...


Grushy stupid question for someone with the experience and knowledge even you have. Think durability, versatility, temperment and many other traits. There is good to both , but you know the answer.
Ric
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## muckdog (Mar 13, 2006)

2ESRGR8 said:


> Looking for some input from the M-S braintrust.
> I just had a friend from my RGS chapter email me asking me for an opinion on what breed upland flusher he should be looking into.
> I have had Springer envy for a while now but I also kill quite a few grouse over some experienced upland Labs each Fall so I am torn on which way to push him.
> Any arguments one way or the other?
> ...


Field bred English Cocker...........primarily grouse/woodcock with some pheasant mixed in.....I can't think of a breed suited much better. Coming from someone that's had springers and has a small athletic(44 lb) lab. I think if I were to go flusher I would have a hard time not going with a field bred english cocker...


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## anon21511 (Jan 13, 2006)

How about a Linger or a Sprabrador? I'm sure some mental giant out there has a whole kennel full.


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## midwestfisherman (Apr 19, 2001)

It's damned hard to beat a good lab. Although, those FB English Cockers have really piqued my interest in the past couple of years. They just might be something to look into for someone heading back into a flushing breed.


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

muckdog said:


> Field bred English Cocker...........primarily grouse/woodcock with some pheasant mixed in.....I can't think of a breed suited much better. Coming from someone that's had springers and has a small athletic(44 lb) lab. I think if I were to go flusher I would have a hard time not going with a field bred english cocker...


Been there, done that, bot the T-shirt.........

ONE WORD of advice: Before getting a FBECS, just be damn sure you have a very, very good _sense of humor_.:lol: And the Cocker owners here will know eggzzaaactly what I mean by that.

NB


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## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

I hunted over a very nice Cocker this Fall, I will add to the list of recommendations.


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## Hevi (May 18, 2004)

I have hunted with very good Labs and Springers. My hunting partner had a good Springer, I've hunted with Blackwood's Springers, and a number of Labs. The best of which have been the Heller Boy's Labs. I think when it comes to performance and versatility the Lab wins at the end of the day.


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

My advice to your friend, go hunt behind a number of dogs in both breeds, find out which guy has a "program" that fits your/his style, cover preference, speed, aesthetics. Evaluate that guys dogs, go visit them in their home (dogs), buy the guy dinner, then find out where that guy gets his dogs and go that route.

I am so thankful when I was ready to switch breeds 6 years ago that I attened RGS Trials, Spaniel Hunt Tests and that folks like Dan Ross, George Clayton, Mike Connally, Bruce Minard, Steve Ward, Steve Nemethy, Doug Doherty, Matt Mates, Glenn Blackwood, Tim Norman, and others gave me the opportunity to hunt wild birds over their dogs. At the end I decided I wanted to tweak my program, but that my breed fit my needs.


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## sinabomb (Jun 24, 2008)

I am on my first springer but i have had labs my whole life previous to the springer. 

1) I would say they are both great at finding and flushing game but the springer can do it a lot longer.

2) The personality of the two breeds in my experience is very different. My springer shows a greater range of emotion/behavior. The labs were always in a dumb/blissful/happy mode. 

3) The grooming is much more difficult with my springer. I think i spend as much time hunting as i do pulling out burs and prickers.

In the end both breeds have been great pets and hunters. If i were to choose a second dog i would get another springer.


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

sinabomb said:


> I am on my first springer but i have had labs my whole life previous to the springer.
> 
> 1) I would say they are both great at finding and flushing game but the springer can do it a lot longer.
> 
> .


 

How big were your labs? What kind of conditioning did they receive? What was their confirmation like?

The biggest advantage right now with Labradors is that with a bit of due diligence you can find a line for about all your needs. Including dedicated upland dogs that have been around for multiple decades. 

My brother owns a lab that has endurance that might shock most people including some more traditional bird dog folks, he is a physical giant at only 50lbs.


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