# cheap ammo (the good stuff)



## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

John Singer said:


> When a projectile is fired at speeds exceeding the speed of sound and then it slows down to subsonic it will experience turbulence. The Black Cloud wad carries the shot much further downrange than conventional wads. This may explain your inconsistant points of impact when patterning.
> 
> The same phenomenon is observed with rifled slugs at distances greater than 60 or 70 yards. Sabot slugs and rifle bullets avoid this as they are stabilized by spin.


That is an explanation that makes a lot more sense to me. Turbulence and aerodynamic effects at high speeds were something I always wanted to cover more in my fluids dynamics class, but never got to touch on it. Thanks John .


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

ajkulish said:


> I stated earlier that I tried using my full and my factory mod and had very similar results. And with the winchester, my spread is just as consistent with a full choke as it is with the mod. Just tighter. Everyone's guns react differently to different ammo and choke combos I guess


Try the improved cylinder and try patterning it the proper way and I think you'll see clearer results. BC patterns very tight and you probably have it over choked.


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## BWaterfowl (Oct 1, 2016)

We bought a case of the Rio blue shells #4 shot and those things are awesome they pattern well and have some serious knock down power at a distance defiantly would stick with them and they are really cheap. For sure the way to go. Used to shoot black cloud stuff is freaking amazing too but really expensive.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

BC can be had for $180 case plus a $50 rebate. So that's like $130 case. That's pretty damn cheap.


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## thefishpimp (Feb 8, 2011)

ajkulish said:


> It isnt just not being able to hit with BC at close range, I have just had some very very strange and inconsistent patterns with that load. The pattern with BC 3 inch #3 was about the same size as winchester #2 1550fps at 25 yards. However, the BC was much more inconsistent. It seemed to sling majority of the pattern at any random spot within the pattern circle. Sometimes left, sometimes up and right, sometimes right at the bottom, etc. with probably 15% of the pellets filling 85% of the pattern area. I have also seen a BC#3 shot at 25 yards and the wad and pellets all remained as one piece and just made a 12 gauge hole in the middle of the paper with zero pellet distribution. I simply have a hard time trusting them for anything. My 1400 fps winchester #2 patterns worlds tighter and more consistent than BC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Field & Stream shells are Fiocchi Steel.......Just looked at a box in the store yesterday. I've been shooting Hevi Metal for the last few years. I bought a box of Fiocchi #5's to use during the teal hunt. Just finished the box off on a wood duck shoot last weekend. They kill 'em just fine.


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## gr8lakefisher (Jan 17, 2009)

Bc 3's are my best load out of a factory mod choke in my a300 at 30 yards. Don't seem to do much past 30 though.


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## duckcommander101 (Jan 14, 2003)

monkel said:


> I actually use a ported choke which i know is a no no for BC/hevi metal. I have a patternmaster code black duck I believe. I don't recall it being 90 (which is what it's advertised price is), could have been on sale when I picked it up. I seem to fold ducks at 30-40 but at 20-30 I seem to struggle. I want to get a patternmaster blackcloud choke and look at the difference between the two patterns. But at the same time I really want a new duck gun so I'm holding off on the blackcloud choke.
> 
> edit: blackcloud patterns MUCH better out of my current set up (870/patternmaster code black) vs hevi metal/steel. The pattern I get with Hevi isn't terrible but blackcloud definitely puts more BB's in the kill zone then the Hevi does for me. That could all change with a non ported choke tube as well though. I shoot pretty much nothing but #2's all year round.


Ported chokes are fine with Hevi Metal.
Not sure on BC, but since it uses a special wad to achieve patterns a wad stripper choke would defeat the purpose of using the BC shells.


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## duckcommander101 (Jan 14, 2003)

DecoySlayer said:


> I wish there was a way to "duplicate" the loads we used for layout hunting back in the lead days. I loaded a 2 3/4" shell with 1 1/4 of either #6 or #7 1/2 lead. Book velocity was 1330FPS. I have no idea what true velocity was.
> 
> 1 1/4OZ of lead gives you an approximate pellet count of 280 and 435 for #6 and #7 1/2. It is difficult to get to that 280 pellet count, with steel, without higher velocities. The fact is steel is less dense than lead and will never perform as well.
> 
> ...


I will bring a box of 2 3/4" 7 1/2 Hevi Shot 1 1/4oz to the next festival meeting for you to try, I prefer 1 3/8 oz 6s myself but the 7 1/2s knock the hell out of early season mallards so there is no reason that they would not work for layout shooting.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Thanks!

Are you planning on hunting that youth hunt next week? I believe it's on the 8th but we have not confirmed that yet. Last I heard the plan was to take 3, 2 man layout boats.


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## duckcommander101 (Jan 14, 2003)

DecoySlayer said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Are you planning on hunting that youth hunt next week? I believe it's on the 8th but we have not confirmed that yet. Last I heard the plan was to take 3, 2 man layout boats.


Nope, my oldest son is getting married Saturday so it is very probable that i will not be in any condition to hunt on Sunday.
Worst case i will see Bob W at the gdha meeting on 11/10 and i will send it with him.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

duckcommander101 said:


> Nope, my oldest son is getting married Saturday so it is very probable that i will not be in any condition to hunt on Sunday.
> Worst case i will see Bob W at the gdha meeting on 11/10 and i will send it with him.


LOL! I get that, but the 8th is a Tuesday! I hope some birds come down so those kids get some shooting. I really like watching kids hunt.


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## duckcommander101 (Jan 14, 2003)

DecoySlayer said:


> LOL! I get that, but the 8th is a Tuesday! I hope some birds come down so those kids get some shooting. I really like watching kids hunt.


Youth Hunt is first Sunday in November 11/6. Wedding is 11/5.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

OK, now I am confused, not like that is anything new. That's now the 3rd date I have had for that hunt. Hopefully I will learn more today. Unless there is another youth hunt taking place soon.


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## duckcommander101 (Jan 14, 2003)

DecoySlayer said:


> OK, now I am confused, not like that is anything new. That's now the 3rd date I have had for that hunt. Hopefully I will learn more today. Unless there is another youth hunt taking place soon.


11/6 am is youth hunt at Mouillee


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

duckcommander101 said:


> 11/6 am is youth hunt at Mouillee


Different hunt. We are taking 6 kids out on the Lake on the 8th


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## Highball28 (Oct 17, 2014)

stackemup said:


> This is my second season using Fiocchi. Buying it from Rogers Sporting Goods. $109 bucks a flat. Burns clean and kills birds. Whether it's through a Benelli, Beretta, 870, or Winchester SXP.


I second the fiochi vote!


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## BFG (Mar 4, 2005)

I've probably shot 5 cases of BC over the years out of my 870, X2, and 11-87. Best choke in all three guns for BC is IC, and if you have one, consider using a skeet tube. 3" #2 BC is flat out a deadly load, but you will mess up birds if you shoot them inside of 20 yards. The manufacturing standards for Federal are pretty loose. I've seen entire boxes of BC that had bad crimps, and/or poorly shaped brass.


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## Vols (Jan 4, 2013)

In case anyone is interested, this is in regards to the Rio Blue Steel Game Loads being waterproof:

From one of their customer service managers "Thank you for taking the time to get in touch with us regarding the build of our shells. While our shells are designed to work in less than optimal conditions, they are not waterproof and it is not advised that the cartridges be subjected to harsh conditions for an extended period of time. I always advise investing in a dry storage bag or storage container that is designed to keep contents dry in harsh conditions.
Thank you again for getting in touch with us and please let me know if you have any questions."


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## natureboy2534 (Dec 11, 2013)

Outta of my SX3 with Carlson Mid and Long range tubes...40 yards out no wind sunny day..


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## natureboy2534 (Dec 11, 2013)

The ones with names not shown are winchester experts in 3 in number 4s..
Kinda hard to see on phone what are what download..Have heavy metal and BC also blindside done also but cant tell what ones i posted already..


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