# Most over-rated and under-rated



## Mr. 16 gauge (Jan 26, 2000)

I saw this thread on another website and thought it was interesting so I thought I would start one here. The replies so far on the other site have been interesting, to say the least!

So what do you feel is the most over-rated in the firearms world? The most under-rated? Can be anything for any reason. Here are some of my choices:

Over-rated: Firearms
Glocks
Colt 1911 models and variants
in-line muzzleloaders
Browning Citoris
"assault" weapons

Under-rated: firearms
Ithaca M51 & M37 shotguns
Miltary Surplus bolt action rifles
Flintlocks
Revolvers
lever action rifles

Overrated: cartridges
The 3" 20 gauge
The 3 1/2 " 12 gauge
Any of the current "short magnum" line of cartridges from Winchester, Remington, et al.
Sabots
hevishot

Underrated: Cartridges
The 16 gauge shotshell
the 6.5x55 Swede
the 280 Remington
The 30/30 Winchester

Be prepared to give a reason if someone asks you about your choice. I would ask that you respect each others opinons and not turn this into a pi$$ing contest. Remember: this is all just for fun and one person's opinions will not change the way the free world is run.    Just curious to get some other opinions.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Me will have to think a bit on this one but I will quickly add:
Most underated cartridges:
.257 Roberts
30-06

Most overated cartridge:
7mm Rem mag (I can explain if necessary, I like it to)
30-06 (you'll notice its on both lists...for every 100 people that say the 06 isn't enough gun, another 100 will say it's more than enough gun)

Most underated gun:
Remington 7600 Pump rifle
Savage 110 series

Most overated gun:
Browning BARs
Remington 710


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## Rupestris (Aug 25, 2000)

hmmmm...
Over-rated:
Glock
AR-15
Wilson Combat 1911's
Mossberg 500/590
Remington 700 TITANIUM


Under-rated:
Marlin Model 60
Centerfire Semi-Auto rifles( Remington 7400, Browning BAR...)
Savage bolt action centerfire rifles(10, 110, 111...)
Springfield XD

Over-rated round:
.223
10mm

Under rated round:
.243/6mm

Rupe


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## Robert W. McCoy Jr (Jan 18, 2002)

Under rated 
The power and accuracy of the 308 round.
The Raw knock down power of the 350 rem mag.
The new Beretta 391 Ultima Great gun...

Over rated
??
I like alomost all gun's so this one is tuff for me..
I do know that with my personnal experiance it would have to be the two most expensive gun's in my safe a Browning citorie and the weatherby mark V in 270 weatherby mag.
Both have seen very little day light...


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## Ron L (Nov 12, 2000)

Rupe and I got together during lunch and discussed this. We agreed on some points, others, we're on our own.

Over-rated guns:
Glock
Mossberg 500
Anything WSM
Kimber bolt rifle
Anything "TACTICAL"

Under-rated guns:
Marlin 60 series
Dan Wesson
Remington 7400/7600
Charles Daly / Rock Island 1911's

Over-rated rounds:
223
40SW / 357 SIG
"Magnum" rifle rounds for deer

Under-rated rounds:
243


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## Beaglernr (Dec 1, 2002)

Ok, I will kick in but in a different twist

Most overrated: High capacity magazines

Underrated, shooting practice under stress


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## Robert W. McCoy Jr (Jan 18, 2002)

I'll second that.

But the combo is hard to beat


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## Gil Martin (Jan 18, 2003)

I am new here so I will temper my comments until I know the lay of the land a bit better (LOL).

Most over-rated firearms:

rifles and shotguns that cost thousands of dollars (Scout rifles that cost $2,595.00)

custom handguns that cost big bucks

1,000 yard deer rifles


most over-rated cartridges:

short and shorter magnum rifle cartridges

longer 12 gauge shell lengths (3 1/2", can't wait for a 4")


most under-rated firearms:

classic used rifles and shotguns(F.N. '98, Winchester 71, older .22 bolt actions, Remington 11-48s)

old S&W revolvers in standard (non-magnum) calibers(Models 10, 15, 17, 25)


most under-rated cartridges:

.22 l.r.
.38 Special
7x57mm Mauser
.303 British
7.65x53MM Mauser 
8x57mm Mauser

All the best...
Gil


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## Mr. 16 gauge (Jan 26, 2000)

Gil;
Welcome to the site....your opinons are just as welcome and valid as anyone elses' here. Let me guess....your a big fan of Military surplus bolt action rifles, right? 

Swamp monster;
I'm interested in why you think the 7mm mag is overrated....what are your opinions?

Add to my "overated" list:
The .17 HMR

Add to my underated list:
The patched round ball


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## dieseldude (Oct 25, 2002)

ill buy the .17 hmr as an over rated cartridge too. Its almost too small to to bother with, i dont own one but im sure wind plays a significant role on this round. wouldnt a .223 or a .22 mag be a better choice?

As far as the under rated round, i believe most calibers have a purpose.

Whats up with all the Glock haters? Im never 2 ft. from my model 30.

Under rated mfg. H&K. I love my .45 USP!


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## clattin (Jul 8, 2000)

Great thread, Fred.

I'm just gonna do a "general" over/under-rated topic:


Over-rated:
Synthetic stocks
Fluted Barrels
"Specialty" Turkey chokes
Overpriced scopes (Zeiss, Swarovski, etc)


Under-rated:
20 Gauges
Howa Rifles
Side by Side shotguns


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Mr. 16 Gauge,
Well it actually has to do with all magnums per se but It seems to be attached to the 7mm Rem Mag more than any other. It stems from all those times at the range when some know it all shows up and starts to brag about how his caliber is the ultimate and that he's killed such and such animals at amazing distances and no other caliber is as good...blah blah blah. I'm sure most have heard such folks at one time or another. And in my experience, darn near every time this person shows up, he's shooting a 7mm Rem Mag! This has happened to me numerous times and it's really annoying. So maybe it's not the cartridge that's overated, sometimes it's just the shooter. (I am in no way implying that anyone here who shoots a 7mm Rem Mag is that person!) I'm also tired of seeing articles in all the rags that have been written and re-written a hundred times on this caliber. Sure, new reloading data and bullet choices are nice to read about but each article seems to just repeat itself. (I'm also aware that there are people reading about this caliber for the very first time so I understand the need....) Personaly I like this cartridge and wouldn't hesitate buying a rifle in this caliber. Kind of hard to explain I guess but hopefully you understand what I'm trying to say....?


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## dieseldude (Oct 25, 2002)

Swamp Monster,

I know exactly what you are saying, have you met my bother Bob too? Every year for gun season he brags about the 500 yard gun in the Jack Pines. Like the gun will ever see its potential in Irons.

This thoery applies to snowmobiling, its allways the guys riding the "Green Machines" not the actual Arctic Cat machines with the attitudes. 
Mike


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## Mr. 16 gauge (Jan 26, 2000)

Deisledude;
It's not necessarily that we "hate" Glocks; some of us just feel that they are overrated for one reason or another. I put hevishot on my overrated list....not because I don't like it, but because of the hype surrounding it with postings of 100 yards kills on geese, turkey, ect. on the internet.

Swamp monster;
Yeah, there seems to be one of those clowns at the range just about every time I go......for me, it seems to be someone with an inline who just can't wait to tell me how far he can shoot with it & how much better it is than those "old-timey guns" when I pull my .54 hawkin out of the gun sleeve. It's either that, or someone with a .454 Casull or other big boomer who is braggin what a huge buck he is gonna take with that hand cannon this fall, then procedes to miss the entire target at 25 yards..........


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Mr. 16 Gauge,
We've all experienced atleast once!! It's usually good for a chuckle or two, then gets annoying real fast.
I agree with you about the Hevishot.....I read an article that stated it was now possible to take Turkeys at well over 70 yards.....I wonder how many birds are going to be needlessly injured and not recovered because of such reporting? Those kind of reports are totally irresponsible imo.


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## bubo2069 (Oct 31, 2001)

I feel that the Ruger Semi autos are very underated. I mean they are built like tanks and very accurate, what more could ya want? I got a KP95 for X-mas and have put over 1000 rounds through it and the only failure I had was with some +P+ Nato sub-gun ammo. I'm not bashing Glocks HK's and Sigs, but why pay two or three times what I paid for a gun to punch paper with???

Another underated gun is the Browning BPS. I have one and again, no problems with it with probably over 1000 rounds. and very accurate with it's 28" barrel. It might just be me but,  when you compare fit, finish, and smoothness of a BPS, 870 and Mossy the BPS wins hands down.

Over rated:
as Ron said "anything tactical"
Glocks
HK
I would put Sig but my brother has one and I love it  

more under rated:
milsurps
Old Style BP guns

I think I'll stop here. I could probably type about guns till my fingers fall off


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## jdt (Jun 30, 2002)

mr 16 guage,thanks for writing my list for me! i would only add the
264 win mag to the underated.


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## Mr. 16 gauge (Jan 26, 2000)

SFK;
It's o.k. to differ on opinions.....like I said earlier, I'm not a Glock "hater", I just feel they are overrated. I feel the same way about the 1911, although I would still like to own a series 70 or 80 Combat Commander in .38 Super (add that to my "underrated cartridge list", BTW ) I just don't feel that it is the ultimate, end all in semiautomatic handgun design, will cure the common cold, feed the starving in Asia, ect ect ect. like its proponents claim  
Obviously, there are enough folks out there who feel differently, or the gun wouldn't be as popular today as it was when it first came out almost 100 years ago, would it?


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## Swamp Ghost (Feb 5, 2003)

over-rated rifle: the new Remington 700's

under-rated rifle: Ruger M-70's

over-rated handgun: H&K

under-rated handgun: Para-ordinance

over-rated shotgun: Rem. 11-87

under-rated shotgun: Winchester Super-X

over-rated cartridge: 7mm Rem. Mag

under-rated cartridge: .257 roberts


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## wild bill (Apr 20, 2001)

overrated: 3 1/2 12 gauge
 .17 hmr

underated: 20 gauge
6mm


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Another thought on over-rated:
Controlled Round Feed actions
I know that will ruffle some feathers so I will apologize ahead of time.
And under-rated:
Taurus Handguns


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## Robert W. McCoy Jr (Jan 18, 2002)

I usually consider my self some what knowledge able in the area of firearms but you through me on that one.
Perhaps this is some new Jarggin I have not heard of??
Please let me know what that is?

Are you talking about semi's??

Thanks 
Rob


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## Rupestris (Aug 25, 2000)

Robert, that one kinda stumped me too. I had to go do a quick search on the old Firingline forum. This is what I found:

"Controlled feed bolts are like the Mauser and have a very large extractor that as the round is stripped from the magazine it is quicky picked up by the large extractor and controlled all the way into the chamber. 
Pros: better extraction, can feed in most situations even upside down, some say stronger
Cons: more expensive to manufacture, less bolt head around the cartridge, the chamber is harder to accurize IIRC due to a cone shaped lockup 

Push feed bolts are like Remingtons[700's] and have a smaller extractor. the extractor does not control the cartridge from the magazine to the chamber, it just strips the round and pushes it into the chamber. 
Pros: easier to accurize due to flat bolt face and lockup otherwise see above and imagine the opposite. con is to pro and visa versa."

Swamp Monster, pleas correct me if I'm wrong.

Rupe


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## Robert W. McCoy Jr (Jan 18, 2002)

I agree with that one Swamp.
I am not a fan of what I call the claw extractor either.

But I'm partial to the remington.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Rupe pretty much nailed it! Thanks. The pre-64 Winchesters featured these actions and were (are) highly sought after. They are excellent actions and their value is well deserved. But, the new, well not so new anymore "Claw" actions on the current model 70's are just not up to spec imo. I have not seen one at the range yet that was capable(note: most rifles are capable with lots of work) of serious accuracy, I'm sure there are tack drivers from the factory out there but the examples I have seen in the last few years are poor. And I'm really not trying to bash the model 70 either, just using that one as a recent example. I think the whole CRF thing is just way over-rated. I have never had a push feed fail to pick up a round out of the magazine or extract one from the chamber...even with stupidly hot handloads. I can even chamber a round in my model 700 when it darn near upside down. I rarely hunt hanging from trees anyway..lol. I can see the CRF action being useful in Africa for dangerous game and in intense heat that may cause cartridge pressure to spike and make ejection tough but for the type of hunting the majority of us do it's unnecessary. The accuracy thing can be argued I guess, many custom gunmakers use CRF actions with good results, but they take a little more work to make it happen and they tend to be a little more temperamental, atleast in my little experience. It's just my opninion and my experience and I'm sure someone here can argue otherwise and that's good. We are blessed to have many options to choose from! On a side note, I do know a number of folks that use the Rem 700 but have a Sako style extractor for a "better" grip extracting the cartridge. This is a pretty popular modification, albeit to a problem that doesn't really exist.


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## trevally (Mar 12, 2001)

When you can pick up used Glocks for $400.00 and they outperform all other handguns, how can they be overrated? I own six different brands of handguns both autoloaders and wheelguns and its the Glock I keep handy for home defense. I just wish they had a factory manual safety.
As for overrated rifles, I agree that the Scout at about $2995.00 is unbelievably overpriced and overrated


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## Dawg (Jan 17, 2003)

Over:
WSM (although if you can tame it, it's a beautiful thing)

Under:
.303
.308
Stainless and wood (overpriced/undermade)

Did I see 30-06 under-rated? It lives up to the hype, but hyped it is.


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## Rico (Mar 15, 2001)

I'll come to defend the glocks. When I first got the pistol bug I thought they where ugly and no way was I spending that much for a piece of plastic. I now own three and love them. Yes a standard safty would be nice.

Most under rated: the one you don't shoot enough

Most over rated: the ones you do shoot enough and still can't hit the side of a barn w/  

Most over rated: the top dollar guns, except the AR10


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## shorthair (Feb 24, 2003)

Over-rated rifle:
Anything with "super" or "ultra" in its name, usually fitted with 12x or more Hubble wannabe scope.

Over-rated handgun:
High capacity 9mms

Over-rated shotgun:
12 gauge pump/auto with modified or full chokes in upland hunting (make that just "over represented")

Under-rated rifle:
Remington Model 7 in 7mm-08
Swedish Mauser in 6.5x55

Under-rated handgun:
.22 cal auto

Under-rated shotgun:
Light 20s for pheasants

As to the 7 Rem Mag:
I have one, a Savage 110, it shoots better than I can, I've shot more than a few deer with it, and I trust it completely to kill anything I pull the trigger on. That said, I've never shot at anything farther than 200 yds, I carefully built the thing from scratch with help from Will's Gun Shop near Hubbard Lake, and I too think there are too many hoo-ya's who think they can blaze away at unrealistic ranges because their cartridge says "magnum".
I got the rifle at Meijer's on clearance for $230 about 15 years ago, but I still would have rather had an '06.


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## Mr. 16 gauge (Jan 26, 2000)

Shorthair;
Welcome to the site! I'm a Troy resident also. Glad to have you aboard.


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## Hunter333 (Jan 19, 2000)

Welcome to the site shorthair, I am sure you will love this site as much as the rest of us do!!


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## jdt (Jun 30, 2002)

welcome shorthair,i had a rifle barreled by mr will sr. i loved his shop. it had more stuff then jays!(at least it seemed like it)!i think his son is still there?its hard to beat the o6,i have 3 1903a3`s .they all shoot great!


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## shorthair (Feb 24, 2003)

Now there's a freindly welcome!
I was directed to the site last week by Mark from C and F Rooster Ranch, we sat at the same table at the Macomb Chapter Pheasants Forever Banquet. I'm impressed at what appears to be a high level of knowledge and courtesy here.
I only met Mr. Will once or twice, my rifle was rebarreled by his son, Reid. It shoots into .5 inch frequently, never more than .75. I believe that two of the youngest sons run the place now, they have a website (www.willsgunshop.com).
I'll be lurking more than posting, especially at first. I'll have some thoughts bouncing around occasionally that I think may be relevant to the subject matter on the site. Meantime, hope to learn much and share what useful info I may have with the members.
Thanks again!


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## stevebrandle (Jan 23, 2000)

This thread is some good reading and I have to jump in, too. 

I have a 7mm Rem. mag, Browning A-bolt with a synthetic stock. I've hunted with it for 5 years now and here is what I think are draw backs. It took me almost two years to get used to the recoil after only shooting a 30-30 for deer. I put a lot of rounds through the rifle at the range to cure my flinching. I have yet to shoot an animal with it at ranges over 150 yards. So, I'm way over gunned at this point.

I bought it thinking some day I'd be hunting out of state and could use a flat shooting rifle. Two years ago in Saskatchewan, Canada I shot my buck at about 35 yards.  Maybe someday I'll max it out on a Pronghorn or something. 

When I bought this rifle I was torn between the 300 Winchester and the 7mm. Looking back, I wished I would have bought the 300 because there's a lot more cartridge's and bullet weights to pick from. This might change in the future, though. 

I'm kind of neutral on the synthetic stock. I don't think it makes the gun shoot any better, but I haven't shot the same rifle with a wooden one. I like the fact that I can be a little rough with the gun and not worry about dinging up the stock. I do like the way Browning molds the pistol grip area on the a-bolts. It fits my hand well and I think it would be hard to reproduce the same grip in wood cheaply. (There's a bulge in the grip's side that the palm of your hand meets.) Now that I think about it, I'm not sure if the wooden grips an the a-bolts are like that or not. The only down-side to synthetic stocks is they're not as nice to look at. 

One other thing I don't care for on the magnum rifles is the extra length. Not only is the reciever and chamber area longer, the magnum rifles tend to have 28" barrels making them even longer. (longer barrels=more velocity) I still take my Winchester 94 to camp for a still hunting rifle.


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## shorthair (Feb 24, 2003)

Steve,
My 7 has a Bell and Carlson stock, bronze pillar bedded in JB Weld if you can believe it. It has a free-floated Douglas barrel, and at 24" I agree its a lot of rifle to be toting around the woods. I have other rifles, I truly believe that the Remington Model 7 is about as close to perfect an Eastern deer rifle as exists. You can still-hunt with that little rifle (it has the 18.5 inch barrel) and shoot in the timber, but if you get a shot across the meadow you can take that too.
I generally do opening morning and evening in a blind on my property, and typically shoot a buck every Nov 15 with My Savage. It simply works for me, maybe confidence has a lot to do with it.
It has a B&L 3000 3x9x40 in Burris rings and mounts, the stock has been painted in my own cheesy pattern, a coat of pebble paint from a can applied to give it more grip. 
Handloaded 150 grn Nosler Ballistic Tips do 3000 fps and .5 inch at 100 yds, though I usually hunt with Partitions, good for .75 inch. It is not a fancy or expensive or flashy rifle, some might call it homely, it just works every time.
And I don't have much problem with the recoil. I have spent many summer weekend afternoons at the rifle and skeet range in nothing more than a t-shirt. A typical day might be 50-100 rounds with my little hard-butt 20, 20 or so rounds with the Big 7, 10 or so with the 7-08, 10-20 with my steel-butt Swede, 20 or so with my Garand....and what ever else I can beg from my shooting partners that day. 
But I'm not immune to recoil. To tell the truth, my dad's Ruger M-77 in 30-06 beats the snot out of me, and I fear it greatly....


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## stevebrandle (Jan 23, 2000)

I'll tell you a gun that rocks my teeth. Shoot 12ga. 3" slugs out of an 870 Rem. once. Now that's recoil.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Shorthair,
That Savage sounds like a great rifle! I don't know about most people but I would rather have one ugly rifle that shot than a handful of pretty rifles that didn't.
I've yet to have a game animal give me a funny look for having an ugly gun and never got one to compliment me when I'm carrying a purdy one either!


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

OK, I'll jump in here on this one too. Some real interesting likes-dislikes here.
Most over-rated guns:
The latest "Extreme-Hyper-Ultra-Super Magnum Mangler". Seems like there's a new one every month! Most of these are SA's too. Lets put a bigger cartidge in a smaller package- go figure.

Most under-rated guns:
30-06 and 7mm Mag. I never knew there were so many 7 Mag haters out there. If you ever go out West hunting for pronghorn or mule deer, you'll see a whole lot of these . For some very good reasons.

.22 LR Some of the best rifle shot and hunters that I know, burn up a lot of 22 ammo every summer. Like a couple of bricks- at tin cans, metalic siloutes, whatever. The buy a rimfire version of their deer rifle and try to make it as similar as possible- weight, balance, trigger, etc. Then they practice a lot. Works for them. Just my .02.

Natty B.


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## stevebrandle (Jan 23, 2000)

Good advice, NATTY.

I started shooting 22's in competition when I was about 15 years old. Shot for my college team and have always thought the lessons learned made me a better rifleman. 

I need to find that old College Varsity letter again.


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## flyrod4steelhead (Mar 14, 2002)

IMO: 

Most over rated cartridge "30-06"
I wouldn't own one if some one "give" it to me.

I too have a 7mm Rem Mag. Mark II, Stainless Steel barrel. I love it. Yeah there a big gun for Michigan, but when ya hit a deer with 'em, the generaly don't go very far, lol.


Welcome to the site ShortHair


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