# Can you help me design a lure I need?



## Huntnut (Jan 21, 2000)

Ok, here's the situation. I'm a salmon and halibut fishing guide up in Alaska but I grew up fishing for salmon in the great lakes, and am very familiar with great lake trolling tactics.

During May and June, I troll for king salmon along the saltwater coast of the Kenai Peninsula. Using great lake tactics while trolling in Alaska has greatly increased my boats success catching king salmon. Most guys that troll for kings in Alaska do it completely different than the great lake guys do it. I do better than many boats trolling for kings because Im using great lake tactics....much more effective! 

Anyway, below is a picture of a rig I troll in the saltwater. It is basically a night crawler harness (thank you great lakes) but instead of having a night crawler on it, there is a 5-6 inch herring. The tail of the herring is held bent, so the entire presentation spins and flips through the water.

4 out of every 5 strikes I get are on this rig. It's something that I put together and experimented with for saltwater trolling.

But my rig has flaws. And I'm trying to design a rig that eliminates these flaws. So again, I'm hoping to reach out to the great lakers that have trolling down to a science for some design advice.

First here is a picture of the rig. I run this behind dipsey divers (thank you great lakers)










Ok, so here are the flaws:
-I experience line breaks between the 2 hooks, and in front of the front hook. 
-The 40lb mono line is not beefy enough to handle kings up to 80 pounds, or the teeth big kings have.
-because the whole presentation spins, the barrel swivel at the end of leader cannot keep up, and the rig is prone to line twist.
-Just not enough hook points for my satisfaction...would like to add a large treble somewhere in there.
-I go through dozens and dozens of these rigs, I would like these rigs to be substantially more durable, to be used over and over again.

Here are some additional thoughts. Many guys in Alaska troll a spinner much like this one.









This is a very popular spinner in the saltwater. The spinners we use like the one pictured above are about 6 inches long, with a golfball sized blade, and usually has a skirt on it. I dont get much action on them, and there is no way to fish a herring off of it.

The other bait guys troll are plain herring cut to spin, or with a colored nose clip that forces the herring to spin. I don't get a ton of action on these baits either.

My crawler harness/herring combo gets me the most strikes by far, and I want to make it better, and eliminate the flaws I currently suffer.

I am hoping you guys with all your trolling knowledge could help me redesign this bait...

I have thought about using 100 pound mono for the rig, and perhaps making the rig only 10 inches long for storage ease.
I have also thought about using steel wire, or pike leader somehow....

I just dont know.....

I'm hopin you guys can get creative with me, and help me figure out how to build the rig I want so I can make 100 of them while it's the off season.

Any ideas??

AL


----------



## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

Rig a Quick Strike rig, with trebles on Tyger Wire, put the spinner and beads on, use a quality swivel like a Sampo.


----------



## doublell (Feb 8, 2007)

While I realize the hook itself would be way too small you might want to look at the new Mustad Slow Death hook for walleye. It has a unique bend in it and allows for a very slow troll with a crawler that imparts a slow pronounced spin. If you go to the mustad web site they have a video of it. You may get an idea for a much larger hook. Good luck


----------



## benster (Jul 31, 2006)

Why not try a braided line for the harness, put a barrel swivel just in front of your blade(above beed) along with the one you already have? Just replace the back hook with a trebel, like a stinger hook works for walleye fishing?


----------



## fish-on (Nov 27, 2004)

Yeah tom ya know I'd have to get in on this one.

Add bead chain and ballbearing swivels to help with line twist.But....With this type of rig your trolling speed will be very slow or they'll be buzzing like mad.I use and play with large spinners trolling all the time and have gotten my biggest steelies on them, but they have thier limits.Biggest problem is line twist and second would have to be slower trolling speed.I dont like to wait for a fish to hit but would rather cover ground to find ones that will.I understand you guys like to use bait rigs,,but we will out fish ya hands down trollin hardware.Mostly becuase we cover so much water so fast.We troll from 2.2 to say 3.5 on a regular basis.Large glow mag spoons on riggers and leadcore have laid waste to our kings,let along j-plugs,dodgers and flys ect...ect...


I'd go to wire for your rig like a monster spinner,single #00 hooks a 3 inch bead chain and use a ballbearing snap swivel on your mainline.I've fished the pacific nw for years and moved over here to learn how to fish :lol:.They got trollin to a fine art over here.We would mouch for them which is kind of like how we drift fish for perch over here but,Yeah it worked, but try runnin say a set of # 5 silver/lime back j-plugs over a pack of hungry kings and see who boxes more?The guy that drifted once over the pack or the guy doing circle over it again and again.Speed,speed, speed.When ya only have so long to box out your trip you cant wait for the fish to bite ya have to find ones that will.Hardware will get ya there faster.

I like your rig and would mostly look at that bead chain to help with the twist.My friend tom is probaly chuckleing cuz i made some big rigs just like those.Just have'nt played enough with them yet over here.We're always makeing something crazy to fish with.
scot


----------



## Lunker (Aug 27, 2001)

heres my 2 cents....That half hitch in front of the front hook is probably the weak link. Half hitches will cut line in half under pressure .


----------



## bobcolenso (Sep 11, 2003)

I'm not as knowledgeable as ESOX when it comes to equipment and fishing in general, but I was going to ask if there is any reason you can't use two swivels?

I don't have a boat for the big water, I'm a pier rat. I like 20# Power Pro for salmom fishing. They also make an 80# line that's the same size as 18# mono.


----------



## fish-on (Nov 27, 2004)

Here's a rig we came up with for trolling that adds a nice cloud of scent to say a trolled spoon or what have ya on a rigger.I know a king will hit bait better then say a hunk of metal but trolling you dont give them the chance to sniff around looking it over so the hardware flash gets them looking the scent makes them hit.As I said us crazy greatlake trollers have it down to a fine art and when we're snowbound we're always comin' up with something.


----------



## double trouble (Nov 20, 2003)

why not try 80 pound fireline.small diameter high strength line. also you want to snell the hooks just like a regular crawler harness.then use a spro barrel swivel . they come in 135 pound . to stop the line from sliding you can use a speed bead on the line where it goes into the herring.i hope this helps
http://www.lakemichiganangler.com/store/Speed_Beads_or_Speedo_Beads.htm

http://www.sportfishingbc.com/articles/tackle_reviews/berkleys.htm

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?cmView=full&type=pod&id=0017529


----------



## fish-on (Nov 27, 2004)

Yep good links.here the link for bead chain.Thats the answer for line twist.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=bead+chain&noImage=0


----------



## Huntnut (Jan 21, 2000)

Wow....thank you guys very much, we are exactly on the same page, and your ideas are fantastic. Great lakes trollers do make this an art.

Ok so much to reply to...thanx for your insight...

With your design input above, I have this in mind:










The quik strike rig is about perfect....searched the net and found out how to make them...looks great

Trolling speed isnt an issue with this bait. This bait trolls best at around 1.7-2 kts, however, we have some of the largest tides in the world. When Im trolling with the current my bait is being pulled through at 2 knots but my boat is actually doing about 4 knots. Because of this, we troll with the current, ending our troll at the end of the run and running back up to the top of the run. It allows us to fish meat slow, but we cover area fast.

Fish-on, why would you use single hooks instead of trebles?

Ok, so here is where im hung up now....how do I attach the herring head to the front treble without it ripping off?

And...wouldnt that bait look good with a skirt attached to the front treble, and a small herring hanging out the end? hhmmmm......

Thank you guys so much for your insight....fun to play around with!

AL


----------



## Huntnut (Jan 21, 2000)

heheh...the possibilities....


----------



## walleyeman2006 (Sep 12, 2006)

id go even heavier on the braid.....some how i doubt those fish are really line shy .....if you went to a 160 even all it would do is last longer....biggest single hook you can get away with....they set deeper and easier then trebs ///imo


----------



## limige (Sep 2, 2005)

i've never worked with it myself but you should be able to use wire for the hooks, beads and blade, attached to a swivel then add a braided leader to allow the rig to work properly.

there used to be wire crawler harness's available at franks for walleye fishing, thats what we used to use.


i'd go single hooks myself but if you stuck on adding more i'd say use a single in the rear and a treble up front.

even with braid like walleyeman said use heavy braid in the rear, you can lighten up the front side of the rig if you want to keep line visability down and keep the action the same. the fish aren't going to see whatever you use between the hooks and through the beads/spinner.


----------



## Duckman1 (Oct 14, 2004)

Huntnut,

You should look at hard mono for the rig itself 80-100# test, use a line crimp to attach the rear treble. Put on a sliding single 4/0 Octopus, then a plastic bait head (Rhys Davis, Sure Strike, Luhr Jensen). This will allow you to hold the herring to the rig with more than the hooks. At the front loop the line slip on a good Sampo Ball Bearing swivel and crimp the line.


----------



## adjusted3 (Feb 3, 2003)

I keep looking at the rigging and thinking "Cut Bait"....

Why not take a cut bait head and that will take a whole herring and modify the hook system. Like using the hook harness from a J-plug. Add what you want to the nose as far as spinners. I keep thinking of threading those hooks thru the herring in pitching and rolling seas and there has got to be a better way.

My 2 cents

Mark


----------



## fish-on (Nov 27, 2004)

Yeah, here ya go









As mark was sayin' just add your spinner rig infront of a meat rig holder and ya might save those fingers baiting up.The spindoctor does the roll for ya.
Oh,and on the hooks,Singles stick way better.Can't tell ya how many times I'm cussin' at by buddy tom about his hooks.They dont come out to easy let me tell ya.Have to do surgey to get them out of a kings jaw.


----------



## fish-on (Nov 27, 2004)

Mark, how'd ya like to weight in one of his fish during the joe tourny this year?:yikes::yikes::SHOCKED:.We need bigger coolers :16suspect:lol::lol:

Nice fish Al,nice fish


----------



## duckhunter382 (Feb 13, 2005)

go with heavy braid to combat the line breaking and try a magnum dodger in front to attract more fish.


----------



## fish_head (Jun 26, 2007)

I just came back to Michigan from Florida and would have to suggest you check out a rig called a "stinger rig" They use them all the time for attaching sardines, ballyhoo, or any other live bait to rigs when trolling for kingfish, wahoo, etc. in Florida. Don't reinvent the wheel if you don't have to.


----------

