# Atlantic run?



## ausable_steelhead

Robert Holmes said:


> It sounds like coho and chinook might just be a memory in a few years. The atlantics are fun don't get me wrong but the DNR people that want to phase out chinook have never fought with one for an hour. Most of the time you have an atlantic landed in about 10 minutes.


An hour, wow. That would be boring, and ridiculous.

The Atlantic's will begin to stage right about now, but they are not like chinook. They'll be nowhere one day, and suddenly, there the next. They run mostly mid October-mid November. On a larger river like the Au Sab, it'll probably be longer and more drawn out. They'll also likely winter-over, as opposed to dropping out like the small streams. Atlantic salmon and steelhead from the same holes will be possible during winter on the Au Sable.

The holes and runs near good gravel will be key, but so will quiet resting areas. They bite spawnbags very well once laying has commenced, but will respond to hardware and smaller plugs also. The latter is a good way to cover water and search them out. They seem very similar to LRB's in spawn timing, habits, and look. 

My observations have been on small NE streams, but I believe they'll be similar on the AS and elsewhere during their spawning runs. This year should be a run of smaller fish, 3-5lbs...some larger. Next fall will be the first good run of mature, spawning adults; they'll be 6-12lbs+.


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## -Axiom-

METTLEFISH said:


> Use a Temp. probe and see for yourself. There is a large Temp. differential even in shallow waters, especially tanic waters that do not allow Sun light to penetrate and warm the water. Hence the use of bubblers to lift cooler water to intake areas around the dams.
> 
> Above poster... this is AMERICA.



I didn't say there wasn't *any* cold water, there isn't *enough* cold water.

Once you start drawing the cold water from the bottom it gradually gets replaced by increasingly warmer water.

There is enough cool water to lower the downstream temp a couple degrees usually, any little bit helps.

There certainly isn't enough cool water available to maintain cold water below the dams during the height of the summer.


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## Robert Holmes

Yes I have fought many kings for an hour or longer. I use very light line 4lb 6lb and 8lb test line. When surf fishing with 4lb line an 18 pound king will peel you for 300+ yards of line before it slows down. By the time you gain a foot back it is out there 400 yards. Then it is a battle of you win a little and it wins a lot. If you use rope then you have never experienced the fight a king can put up. I spent an hour and 47 minutes on a 33 lb king with 6 lb test line. Anything but boring.


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## snowman11

That opinion is based on a knowledge of genetics and the gene mutations that cause evolution. The greater the natural reproduction, the greater chances of something working. I didn't say there was no natural reproduction.... I said there was not enough. Or at least I hope that's what I said....damn smart phones anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire


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## Robert Holmes

water_of_light said:


> I know some folks from the Fisheries division. They don't WANT to phase out the chinook. But what's the point in continuing to plant a species that is dying from lack of food? They could keep wasting time and money planting fish that just die or they could re-focus their efforts on Atlantics, which have a better shot. Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely bummed the kings are going downhill. I LOVE catching them and eating them. But it's time to cut losses. They're stuck on Alewife. And we all know what's become of them. Let's just pray that kings can evolve and learn to eat something else.


That will kill the DNR big lake cash cow


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## Robert Holmes

snowman11 said:


> Evolution requires reproduction, which there simply isn't enough of. Those rivers that would support repro to a level where you might see evolution don't have cold enough water.


The UP streams and the Canadian streams have extremely high numbers of chinook smolts so there is plenty of hope for the future. A very good chance that the Lake Trout are eating them up.


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## Trunkslammer

Ausable steelhead, thank you for the great info. Thats guna be a tough time of year to get me out of the treestand. But i guess i will have to give it a whirl.


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## METTLEFISH

snowman11 said:


> That opinion is based on a knowledge of genetics and the gene mutations that cause evolution. The greater the natural reproduction, the greater chances of something working. I didn't say there was no natural reproduction.... I said there was not enough. Or at least I hope that's what I said....damn smart phones anyway.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire


 
Please explain the great Steelhead, Chinook, and Pink runs that happen where never planted. Actually the pinks NEVER were supplemented with plants. A very small number escaped fron an Ontario hatchery in the late 50's (?) There are HUGE runs of wild fish in Ontario, those fish were the un known equation that was fowling the numbers of Fisheries people were using regarding King numbers in Lk. MI.


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## Fishndude

Robert Holmes said:


> Yes I have fought many kings for an hour or longer. I use very light line 4lb 6lb and 8lb test line. When surf fishing with 4lb line an 18 pound king will peel you for 300+ yards of line before it slows down. By the time you gain a foot back it is out there 400 yards. Then it is a battle of you win a little and it wins a lot. If you use rope then you have never experienced the fight a king can put up. I spent an hour and 47 minutes on a 33 lb king with 6 lb test line. Anything but boring.


I have never fought a fresh water fish for for more than 15 minutes. Fishing for Kings with 4# line absolutely doesn't show you the fight a King can give. Fighting a King on 15# - 20# line lets you go toe-to-toe with the fish, and you can see what kind of fight they are capable of. With real light line you pretty much have to trick them into allowing themselves to be landed. And it can be done. But it is boring as heck to do. How much fun is it to just carefully hang onto a fish, and recover a tiny bit of line whenever you can, until the fish is belly up? When I fight fish, and the fish want to run, laying into them with sturdy tackle gives me the fight I crave. Get some 15# Maxima Ultragreen, and try it for yourself. But be careful - it is addicting. :evilsmile 
Oh, and leave the ultra light, or slow action rod home. *Med-fast, or fast action* rods are the way to go, for both Salmon, and Steelhead.


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## Robert Holmes

You use your boat rope and I will use my light line. I see it every year the guys with boat rope cast 15 feet.:lol::lol: I can throw lures I am guessing 75 yards. That is the best reason for using lighter line not to mention that it is less visible to the fish. When I am casting for salmon I want my lure out there not sitting in 2 feet of water.


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## jacks300ultra

Fishndude said:


> I have never fought a fresh water fish for for more than 15 minutes. Fishing for Kings with 4# line absolutely doesn't show you the fight a King can give. Fighting a King on 15# - 20# line lets you go toe-to-toe with the fish, and you can see what kind of fight they are capable of. With real light line you pretty much have to trick them into allowing themselves to be landed. And it can be done. But it is boring as heck to do. How much fun is it to just carefully hang onto a fish, and recover a tiny bit of line whenever you can, until the fish is belly up? When I fight fish, and the fish want to run, laying into them with sturdy tackle gives me the fight I crave. Get some 15# Maxima Ultragreen, and try it for yourself. But be careful - it is addicting. :evilsmile
> Oh, and leave the ultra light, or slow action rod home. *Med-fast, or fast action* rods are the way to go, for both Salmon, and Steelhead.


15-20lb. Test and Med- fast to Fast action rods for both salmon and steelhead? The salmon I can kind of see, but you must be really worried about landing a stealhead if you have to run that heavy of gear. Unless you are strictly fishing the surf (still don't need 15-20lb.) there is no reason to go any heavier then 8 and even then that's heavy IMO. 
I'll often run 4lb for steelies and 8 for kings and land most of what I hook.


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## Robert Holmes

It almost sounds like he is fishing in the meat holes where there is 50 guys all hunkered down fishing in 100 square feet of water. If that is the case you will have to rip them in or 49 guys will be all pissed off at you. I have experienced that a couple of times with my light line. You also have to use very heavy line if you are fishing fast water near dams. Fortunately I have some wide open spaces to fight fish unless some idiot parks a boat on top of me.


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## Downriver Tackle

Wow, I guess my rods loaded up with 30# braid would be shunned upon then? :lol:  After having a biggin snap 30# while trolling not long ago, wouldn't go any lighter here. You can cast almost any line quite a ways with a good reel and the proper rod for what lure you're throwing. Screw that 1 hour fight crap here. Too many other fish the same size to catch during all that time wasted!


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## Fishndude

Yep, med-fast action rods for both Salmon and Steelhead. I didn't say anything about 15# - 20# line for Steelhead, though; if you actually read what I wrote. I typically use either 8# or 10# mainline when fishing for Steelhead. Some people like to see how long they can play with a fish. I like to see what kind of fight they have.


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## METTLEFISH

Downriver Tackle said:


> Wow, I guess my rods loaded up with 30# braid would be shunned upon then? :lol:  After having a biggin snap 30# while trolling not long ago, wouldn't go any lighter here. You can cast almost any line quite a ways with a good reel and the proper rod for what lure you're throwing. Screw that 1 hour fight crap here. Too many other fish the same size to catch during all that time wasted!


 
Adjust your drag properly.


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## Downriver Tackle

METTLEFISH said:


> Adjust your drag properly.



Nothing to do with drag. Was close to getting spooled and started to thumb the reel to try to turn it around. Made a real strong dash just as I thumbed it and SNAP, fish gone. Broke 30# like it was sewing thread.


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## jacks300ultra

Fishndude said:


> Yep, med-fast action rods for both Salmon and Steelhead. I didn't say anything about 15# - 20# line for Steelhead, though; if you actually read what I wrote. I typically use either 8# or 10# mainline when fishing for Steelhead. Some people like to see how long they can play with a fish. I like to see what kind of fight they have.


Not trying to stir the pot any more, but I DID read your post and there was nothing in it about 8-10# mainline for stealhead. Just 15-20# weed Wacker line.


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## Fishndude

jacks300ultra said:


> Not trying to stir the pot any more, but I DID read your post and there was nothing in it about 8-10# mainline for stealhead. Just 15-20# weed Wacker line.


Right. I was writing about fighting Kings. Here is the quote. Quit trying to stir the pot. Sorry if you are one of the guys who thinks it is cool to fight Kings on Bluegill tackle. 



> Fighting a King on 15# - 20# line lets you go toe-to-toe with the fish, and you can see what kind of fight they are capable of.


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## jacks300ultra

Fishndude said:


> Right. I was writing about fighting Kings. Here is the quote. Quit trying to stir the pot. Sorry if you are one of the guys who thinks it is cool to fight Kings on Bluegill tackle.


It's not that I think it's "cool" I just get irritated when guys say you have to use that heavy of line, because you dont. And as for stealhead, I run that light of line because steelhead tend to be line shy in super clear water. So that 4lb. Test helps me to get a few more hook ups then alot of guys that don't like running that light of line.


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## METTLEFISH

Downriver Tackle said:


> Nothing to do with drag. Was close to getting spooled and started to thumb the reel to try to turn it around. Made a real strong dash just as I thumbed it and SNAP, fish gone. Broke 30# like it was sewing thread.


Yea that happens with braid. People dont change it out often, because of its expense. Nicks, rubs, week spots in general. Then SNAP. If your using thumb for drag..... and it snapped the cable... you should of adjusted the drag properly....


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## Blaketrout

Anybody hear or see anything? I haven't been around the area but know several locals who keep close tabs on things. I personally haven't heard of any Spawning Atlantics in the Au Sable. How about the Thunder Bay?


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## Fishndude

No idea about other rivers, but I fished the Ausable for 9 days a week ago. Never landed a Brown, or Atlantic, and had a couple/few friends along/around. We did catch some Whitefish, and they were tasty. 

I caught a small Atlantic in the Ausable 2 years ago, but haven't gotten one since. We already know that Steelhead provide year-round opporunities for anglers, and it mystifies me why the DNR doesn't just plant more of them. Browns don't do well in that river, although some nearby rivers did well with Brown plants for a few years. Heck, they used to plant good numbers of Channel Catfish in the Ausable, and had really great summer fishing for them for years. I still have a honey hole where I can pretty much catch 1 out-sized Channel Cat whenever I give it a try.


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## Blaketrout

Based on what happened in the unmentionable, those 9 days should have been prime time. There should be a significant amount of spawning activity right now. I have a bad feeling they're not going to make the 2% return goal....


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## Ralph Smith

Blaketrout said:


> Anybody hear or see anything? I haven't been around the area but know several locals who keep close tabs on things. I personally haven't heard of any Spawning Atlantics in the Au Sable. How about the Thunder Bay?


I think it will take awhile before they will reproduce if at all.


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## MichiganStreamside

Blaketrout said:


> Based on what happened in the unmentionable, those 9 days should have been prime time. There should be a significant amount of spawning activity right now. I have a bad feeling they're not going to make the 2% return goal....


Hard to believe there will be or should be a spawning run when there still immature fish!


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## MichiganStreamside

Found this one dead in Au Sable in late October. It measured 24" and had the fin clip of an Au Sable Atlantic. I gave to dnr and still have not heard back if it is for sure one that was stocked there. Pretty good size fish if it was stocked in the spring 2013.


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## fishallday44

Yes not bad at all, thanks for the pic.


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## ausable_steelhead

One of the guys from the site here talked to a bio, and they were worried about high morality of the last 2 stockings. They believe few survived, and small plant size, high flow and cold water temps were their main concerns. This is still early for even the 2013 plant, but a few should have shown. I'm especially concerned about this spring's Au Sable plant, as they had to hold off and hold off and hold off until they simply had to release them. It was winter conditions there well into April. From what I've gathered, they are not giving up on this, and are re-evaluating their strategy.

The unmentionable had big returns IMMEDIATELY! They were dumped in 2010, and 2011, 2012, 2013 all had spawning runs. This year in said trib, there were only a couple sightings and all were large fish. This would be the 4th spawning run, so that's not a surprise. The initial batch's best runs were 2011 and 2012. That first run was a great return!


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## MichiganStreamside

ausable_steelhead said:


> One of the guys from the site here talked to a bio, and they were worried about high morality of the last 2 stockings. They believe few survived, and small plant size, high flow and cold water temps were their main concerns. This is still early for even the 2013 plant, but a few should have shown. I'm especially concerned about this spring's Au Sable plant, as they had to hold off and hold off and hold off until they simply had to release them. It was winter conditions there well into April. From what I've gathered, they are not giving up on this, and are re-evaluating their strategy.
> 
> The unmentionable had big returns IMMEDIATELY! They were dumped in 2010, and 2011, 2012, 2013 all had spawning runs. This year in said trib, there were only a couple sightings and all were large fish. This would be the 4th spawning run, so that's not a surprise. The initial batch's best runs were 2011 and 2012. That first run was a great return!


Last years were stocked at 4.5" and that is probably the main problem. State has poured in a lot of adipose clipped in 4 locations in Lake Huron and not finding any. Does seem to be more Atlantics in Lake Huron now must be coming from the St. Marys. Hopefully the state improves the quality of stockers!


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## SJC

I don't think there is anything wrong with the stockers. I saw the ones they put in the unmentionable. They were downright sickly, after all they were LSU's culls. It's where they are put. As far as planting more steel in the ausable, how many more do they need to plant to get a decent return? i know rivers that get zero plants and receive bigger runs than the AuSable. 

I want these things to work. Atlantics are an awesome game fish and could be the shot in the arm Lake Huron needs. I'm afraid the DNR will never get the returns they want if they keep planting them like kings. They need to plant some of these fish in places other than put and take warm water spots. Atlantics are not going to replace kings! They will never produce the wholesale slaughter type fishery that the kings did.


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## MichiganStreamside

SJC said:


> I don't think there is anything wrong with the stockers. I saw the ones they put in the unmentionable. They were downright sickly, after all they were LSU's culls. It's where they are put. As far as planting more steel in the ausable, how many more do they need to plant to get a decent return? i know rivers that get zero plants and receive bigger runs than the AuSable.
> 
> I want these things to work. Atlantics are an awesome game fish and could be the shot in the arm Lake Huron needs. I'm afraid the DNR will never get the returns they want if they keep planting them like kings. They need to plant some of these fish in places other than put and take warm water spots. Atlantics are not going to replace kings! They will never produce the wholesale slaughter type fishery that the kings did.


I sure hope your right - that Atlantics never create a wholesale slaughter type fishery that the Kings did!!!


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## MichiganStreamside

SJC said:


> I don't think there is anything wrong with the stockers. I saw the ones they put in the unmentionable. They were downright sickly, after all they were LSU's culls. It's where they are put. As far as planting more steel in the ausable, how many more do they need to plant to get a decent return? i know rivers that get zero plants and receive bigger runs than the AuSable.
> 
> I want these things to work. Atlantics are an awesome game fish and could be the shot in the arm Lake Huron needs. I'm afraid the DNR will never get the returns they want if they keep planting them like kings. They need to plant some of these fish in places other than put and take warm water spots. Atlantics are not going to replace kings! They will never produce the wholesale slaughter type fishery that the kings did.


What I do not understand SJC if its simply the location of where they are being stocked now that is the problem as you have stated then why are not the state Atlantics that are being stocked in the same location as the LSSU fish not showing up anywhere?? Along with Au Sable and Thunder Bay these have never been found. But with increased LSSU stocking the last couple years population of Atlantics is growing in Lake Huron.


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## ausable_steelhead

SJC said:


> I don't think there is anything wrong with the stockers. I saw the ones they put in the unmentionable. They were downright sickly, after all they were LSU's culls. It's where they are put. As far as planting more steel in the ausable, how many more do they need to plant to get a decent return? i know rivers that get zero plants and receive bigger runs than the AuSable.


You just seem to have a slight against the AS. The steelhead runs have been pretty decent the last 3 years. Last winter was rough, but that was expected with bitter cold, big time shelf ice, and a large portion of the river frozen over. If you're not catching fish, I simply don't know what to tell you. The winter fishing in 2011 and 2012 was great. I fish primarily from shore and often hooked 5-7 fish a trip. Some days went as high as 12-14 hookups. These are all adult fish too, no skipper counting. Last winter was 2-3 fish on average, with some days up to 7. That's on par with wading anywhere else in the state.


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## Robert Holmes

Unlike the chinook that tend to migrate south. The atlantics tend to migrate north. People expect that if the DNR plants 30,000 fish that 30,000 will show up to be caught. Actually about 3000 will survive to become adults and about half of those will show up elsewhere. Oscoda is finally getting fish show up from the UP. The Au Sable is great fishing for all species count your blessings and keep fishing. In due time you will catch some atlantics. It took years for atlantics to start showing up in good numbers in the Soo. Be patient.


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## MichiganStreamside

Robert Holmes said:


> Unlike the chinook that tend to migrate south. The atlantics tend to migrate north. People expect that if the DNR plants 30,000 fish that 30,000 will show up to be caught. Actually about 3000 will survive to become adults and about half of those will show up elsewhere. Oscoda is finally getting fish show up from the UP. The Au Sable is great fishing for all species count your blessings and keep fishing. In due time you will catch some atlantics. It took years for atlantics to start showing up in good numbers in the Soo. Be patient.


I will take 1500 adult Atlantics coming into the Au Sable River! With multiple year classes that could mean more than 3000. That would be awesome and hopefully one day soon.


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## Ralph Smith

Robert Holmes said:


> *Unlike the chinook that tend to migrate south. The atlantics tend to migrate north*. People expect that if the DNR plants 30,000 fish that 30,000 will show up to be caught. Actually about 3000 will survive to become adults and about half of those will show up elsewhere. Oscoda is finally getting fish show up from the UP. The Au Sable is great fishing for all species count your blessings and keep fishing. In due time you will catch some atlantics. It took years for atlantics to start showing up in good numbers in the Soo. Be patient.


Not sure on that one Robert. They show up in the spring in PA and Tawas every year.


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## SJC

AS- I have nothing against the AuSable. I actually like the river. In fact, I was prolly fishing it while you were still watching Power Rangers. I also admit that the steelhead fishing seems to be improving. I even had a day this March with 20+ hookups. However, trips like this are still few and far in between. As much as I enjoy fishing the AuSable,I also have to admit that for the amount of fish that are dumped in that 6 mile stretch, it should be on like Donkey Kong mid Oct. til May. Period. Hopefully, it keeps improving. I did not come on here to bash the AuSable. I want these Atlantics to work and would not trade them for more steelhead.

Kelly- Perhaps it does have something to with the stockers. After all, the original plant in the unmentionable were LSSU fish. I don't claim to have the answers. I just don't want this to fail and feel that the DNR is putting all their eggs in one basket.


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## Ralph Smith

SJC said:


> AS- I have nothing against the AuSable. I actually like the river. *In fact, I was prolly fishing it while you were still watching Power Rangers*. I also admit that the steelhead fishing seems to be improving. I even had a day this March with 20+ hookups. However, trips like this are still few and far in between. As much as I enjoy fishing the AuSable,I also have to admit that for the amount of fish that are dumped in that 6 mile stretch, it should be on like Donkey Kong mid Oct. til May. Period. Hopefully, it keeps improving. I did not come on here to bash the AuSable. I want these Atlantics to work and would not trade them for more steelhead.
> 
> Kelly- Perhaps it does have something to with the stockers. After all, the original plant in the unmentionable were LSSU fish. I don't claim to have the answers. I just don't want this to fail and feel that the DNR is putting all their eggs in one basket.


I hope it works also. They are a much better eating fish than the kings.


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## MichiganStreamside

SJC said:


> AS- I have nothing against the AuSable. I actually like the river. In fact, I was prolly fishing it while you were still watching Power Rangers. I also admit that the steelhead fishing seems to be improving. I even had a day this March with 20+ hookups. However, trips like this are still few and far in between. As much as I enjoy fishing the AuSable,I also have to admit that for the amount of fish that are dumped in that 6 mile stretch, it should be on like Donkey Kong mid Oct. til May. Period. Hopefully, it keeps improving. I did not come on here to bash the AuSable. I want these Atlantics to work and would not trade them for more steelhead.
> 
> Kelly- Perhaps it does have something to with the stockers. After all, the original plant in the unmentionable were LSSU fish. I don't claim to have the answers. I just don't want this to fail and feel that the DNR is putting all their eggs in one basket.


You and me both dont want this to fail! It will interesting to see what happens this spring with the next Atlantics stocked. Our DNR sees its not working and says there looking to make improvements in the quality of fish and the process. Its now or never.

There were some excellent days steelheading last March!!!


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## ausable_steelhead

SJC said:


> AS- I have nothing against the AuSable. I actually like the river. In fact, I was prolly fishing it while you were still watching Power Rangers. I also admit that the steelhead fishing seems to be improving. I even had a day this March with 20+ hookups. However, trips like this are still few and far in between. As much as I enjoy fishing the AuSable,I also have to admit that for the amount of fish that are dumped in that 6 mile stretch, it should be on like Donkey Kong mid Oct. til May. Period. Hopefully, it keeps improving. I did not come on here to bash the AuSable. I want these Atlantics to work and would not trade them for more steelhead.


I was in elementary school in the 90's, so you're likely right about that :lol:!


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## Ralph Smith

ausable_steelhead said:


> I was in elementary school in the 90's, so you're likely right about that :lol:!


:lol: That's back when I was up there and the Rifle a lot. Good times.


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