# I screwed up and got caught



## Brandaman14 (Nov 6, 2013)

So I was hunting on the 15th, opening day of firearm obviously. I was hunting with a crossbow and ended up shooting a doe. I had a combo tag, which in my mind was good for a buck and a doe as it had been all through archery season. Upon getting my tags out to tag the deer, I couldn't figure out which one to use...when I realized my mistake. As of the 15th, it was no longer good for an antlerless deer. Crap. I was on private land, not that it matters, so I left it there and ran to the store to get a doe tag. Came back, did my thing and took the deer to the processor. It was an honest mistake, I wasn't one of those that waits to shoot a deer and then runs to grab a tag. Ignorance is no excuse I suppose. 

Anyways, dropped the deer at the processor that night, got a visit today from the DNR. They apparently checked when my tag was bought and when I brought it in and realized it was fishy. I have never been in legal trouble so I didn't know whether or not to tell him everything but trying to do the right thing, I told my whole story as I have here. I guess if I was trying to cheat the system I could have waited a day to bring it to the processor and notched it for the 16th, but I wasn't trying to be dishonest..I just knew I had made a mistake. 

My venison is being taken and now I am wondering if anyone knows what else might happen. The officer appreciated my honesty, and had me write my account of what happened. I guess the prosecutor asks for his input and he would let him know I was a good guy and that I was very cooperative. Anyone been in a similar situation? What kind of fine will I be looking at? He said they wouldn't be taking my bow or anything but the max penalty is something like $1000 plus 90 days in jail. I'm assuming it will be bargained down to something, and certainly don't expect jail time, but I'm just curious if anyone else has been in my spot and what I should expect.


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## d_rek (Nov 6, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Those stupid combination tags are the pinnacle of confusing. I've read the hunting digest a handful of times and also the tags themselves and they still don't make sense to me .

Taking your hard-earned venison is bad enough. I imagine you'll get a few hundred dollar fine at the very least, hopefully nothing more.

Also, you have a constitutional right not to incriminate yourself. You didn't have to tell that CO anything if you didn't want to. You also have the right to legal representation in situations like this.

And I don't understand why buying a doe tag and shooting a doe on the same day is fishy. I've seen my uncle and cousins do it a few years running. They sit opening day morning of firearms season and if they dont get a buck in the AM they go and buy doe tags at lunch and shoot a doe in the evening.


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## Macatawaduckmaster (May 25, 2009)

I don't have any experience to offer, but I really do feel for you! These types of questions get brought up every year at our camp and amongst hunting partners as some of it is clear as mud, and the more you read it and think about it the more confusing it is. Then just when you think you've got a rule figured out they change it again the following year.


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## thill (Aug 23, 2006)

I feel for you too! I was asked the other day if you can tag a doe with your combo tags during gun season if you're bow hunting....I said I was pretty sure you could. I guess I was wrong too! 

I guess I need to re-read the regulations.


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## Irishhunter75 (Nov 15, 2005)

Honest mistake for sure. I think it speaks volume of yourself as a michigan sportsman. There are many situations where cheating the system is very easy. CO's know this and are more interested in sportsman who arnt as honest. More then Likely you will just be given a fine. It sounds like the co is pretty reasonable. Just be more knowledge on the regulations next year especially with antler point restrictions being enforced 

My friend took his young cousin out to duck hunt and the cousin shot a non hunt able duck that closely resembles a hunt able duck co's confiscated his weapons and have him a 1500 dollar fine. Also they were getting mad at my friend who was a cop for having an off duty weapon on him. The kid who shot the duck just fought the ticket through the courts and was just issued a 100 dollar fine. 

So if you are in a situation that they do give you am outrages fine. Just fight it through the courts and 95 % of the time they will settle. Good luck 


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## Brandaman14 (Nov 6, 2013)

Yeah, I knew I had the right to not say anything...but at 26 and with no experience with legal troubles...I just figured I would tell him the truth and take my punishment. The fishy part I referred to was that I shot the deer at maybe 4 pm, and bought a tag around 5pm. So when they look at when the tag was purchased, I would have had to buy the tag and basically step outside and shoot a doe to make it before dark. So they had a pretty solid argument even if I clammed up and said nothing.

I feel bad as well because when I bought the combo tag, I even had another hunter ask me which tags to buy as he was even more of a newbie than I am. I told him the combo because it was good for a buck and a doe for archery and gun season. The blind leading the blind!


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## Jager Pro (Nov 8, 2013)

I find the entire DNR website to be very confusing, but as for the guide IMO only the section on licenses is confusing. At one point I read the antlerless section and thought "oh sh** I almost illegally shot a doe" it took me a day until I read the archery section and realized that original belief was correct that an antlerless deer could be taken during archery season.


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## cr85rider953 (Oct 11, 2010)

The whole situation sucks. Great that you were being honest. The DNR can't let it slide though, because if they do then you know there will be people trying to cheat the system and waiting to buy tags until they shoot a deer. This kind of stuff happens but since you were being honest they will probably take that into consideration as far as fines and all that. I definitely wouldn't expect jail time. I know a person who got caught shining/poaching deer and they fined him, took his gun and he wasn't able to buy a deer tag for 3 years. Certainly no Jail time.


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## MeatnPotatoes (Oct 28, 2010)

Kudos to you for doing the right thing. I would expect a small fine ($100ish). I've heard of people getting less punishment for far worse violations. Honest mistake and hopefully they will realize it.


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## thisusernamevalid (Sep 14, 2013)

Brandaman14 said:


> Yeah, I knew I had the right to not say anything...but at 26 and with no experience with legal troubles...I just figured I would tell him the truth and take my punishment.


Part of me feels badly for you, the other part thinks you should pay more attention and learn the laws. Either way, your biggest mistake was talking to the CO. 

NEVER, and I cannot stress this enough, 

NEVER EVER talk to a LEO unless you are in the presence of your attorney, EVEN IF YOU BELIEVE YOU'VE DONE NOTHING WRONG!

Don't be a jerk about it, just be firm.

"I'll be happy to cooperate with you officer, as soon as my attorney is here." 

Watch this video. It is kind of long, but well worth the 48 minute investment. ANYONE WHO HAS A CPL should watch it as well. For that matter, everyone should watch it. 

The guy is a defense attorney and a very entertaining speaker.


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## HUBBHUNTER (Aug 8, 2007)

That's a bummer and an honest mistake by the way it sounds. I don't have time to read all the reply's but if they doing try to charge you with a crime, plead not guilty. Always plead not guilty. They will reduce the charge, especially in a case like this which means nothing to them.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Brandaman14 said:


> ...........
> Anyways, dropped the deer at the processor that night, got a visit today from the DNR. They apparently checked when my tag was bought and when I brought it in and realized it was fishy.
> ....................


I'm trying to figure out why the DNR ever checked your doe. They checked your deer when it was at the processors ?

L & O


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## rz6x59 (Nov 9, 2008)

There are several 'red flags' the CO's look for. One is a deer tagged with a tag purchased on the same day it was taken. People illegally do it all the time which is why they look for it.
My guess is they frequent the chop houses during the busy time of the year. Might even ask the butchers to call them if they see a potential violation.
With the nearly unlimited private land antlerless permits some people figure they will buy a tag after they get one. The DNR is wise to this game.
Sorry you got wrapped up in this but hopefully it's a minimal fine.


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

Liver and Onions said:


> I'm trying to figure out why the DNR ever checked your doe. They checked your deer when it was at the processors ?
> 
> L & O


I'm trying to figure that out too. Just doesn't add up. The only way I can see getting a visit from the DNR is if the processor looked at the tag and turned him in. 

I've taken deer to my processor for 24 years. The tag has never been left with the deer....Not once. Once the deer is registered a tag is put on it, and I take my deer tag home. My hunting license number is in their records, and that's it. My processor does this to prevent the OP's story from ever happening in the first place. I would assume mistakes are made daily in regards to marking deer tags. Why give them something else to look at to find wrong.


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## brent164 (Mar 6, 2005)

archery season says oct 1. - nov 14 and dec 1 - jan 1. So you can tag a doe with a combo tag during muzzleloader correct? We had this conversation at work and everyone agreed but I thought I'd double check after reading this


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## Matt3ddsteel (Jan 10, 2002)

brent164 said:


> archery season says oct 1. - nov 14 and dec 1 - jan 1. So you can tag a doe with a combo tag during muzzleloader correct? We had this conversation at work and everyone agreed but I thought I'd double check after reading this


NO, you cannot shoot a doe with a muzzleloader unless you have an antlerless tag.


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## snortwheeze (Jul 31, 2012)

brent164 said:


> archery season says oct 1. - nov 14 and dec 1 - jan 1. So you can tag a doe with a combo tag during muzzleloader correct? We had this conversation at work and everyone agreed but I thought I'd double check after reading this


May want to check with a co before pulling that release , who knows

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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

3.103 Issuance of deer kill tags; validation of deer kill tag; unlawful acts.
Sec. 3.103. (1) The director shall issue a kill tag as part of each deer hunting license. A person who kills a deer shall immediately validate the kill tag by notching out the appropriate information on the tag and attach the kill tag to the antler, lower jaw, or gambrel of the deer in a secure and permanent manner.

(2) Except as provided in this subsection for the removal of a kill tag, it shall be unlawful to possess or transport a deer without a validated deer kill tag attached. The kill tag shall remain attached to the deer until any 1 of the following conditions are met:

(a) *The carcass is processed or butchered for consumption *by an individual for their personal use.

(b) *The carcass is accepted for processing and recorded by a commercial processor *. If the antlers or head is returned to the person submitting the animal to the commercial processor, the kill tag shall accompany the head or antlers.

(c) The carcass is accepted for processing and recorded by a taxidermist.


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## WMIBOWHUNTER (Jan 18, 2012)

I have a basic buck tag for archery this year.....can't i shoot a buck with my bow on Nov 15-30th....as long as i use my bow....
I've always been told i could do that


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Matt3ddsteel said:


> NO, you cannot shoot a doe with a muzzleloader unless you have an antlerless tag.


How about DMU 487 ? Page 33 of the Hunting Guide. Otherwise, I think you are correct........except of course during the Independence & Liberty Hunts, then it's ok too. 

L & O


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

WMIBOWHUNTER said:


> I have a basic buck tag for archery this year.....can't i shoot a buck with my bow on Nov 15-30th....as long as i use my bow....
> I've always been told i could do that


Doesn't look like that would be legal. Page 32 of your Hunting Guide. This question comes up at least once a year. Even though you are using archery equipment, firearm tag needs to be used.

L & O


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## kneedeep (May 30, 2008)

WMIBOWHUNTER said:


> I have a basic buck tag for archery this year.....can't i shoot a buck with my bow on Nov 15-30th....as long as i use my bow....
> I've always been told i could do that


No, archery season is closed at that time.


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## brent164 (Mar 6, 2005)

I'm glad I asked, thanks for the help


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## ab5228 (Nov 13, 2009)

WMIBOWHUNTER said:


> I have a basic buck tag for archery this year.....can't i shoot a buck with my bow on Nov 15-30th....as long as i use my bow....
> I've always been told i could do that


No, the archery tag is only valid in archery season. You can shoot a buck with a bow in firearm season using a firearm only tag or combo tag.


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## steelyfish (Mar 19, 2013)

I guess I've never seen a thread like this on here. I am happy I read it though because I typically hunt a lot with my bow, and have even hunted rifle season with my bow and I just assumed one could use archery tags if using a bow. I always buy a combo so it wouldn't really be an issue for me, but I'm glad to know it just in case. Good post guys


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## Jager Pro (Nov 8, 2013)

They should really revise that section, there seems like there are way too many questions on this.


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

Jager Pro said:


> They should really revise that section, there seems like there are way too many questions on this.


You don't think it's understandable if you actually take the time to read it? No question that I've personally seen on here can't be answered by just a little reading of the hunting guide. No offense intended of course.


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## Airoh (Jan 19, 2000)

During rifle season you can use a bow but you are under rifle season rules.
Did he ask you if you were wearing hunter orange? That would of been another violation. I feel for you, sounds like an honest mistake.
Just to make it more confusing you CAN take a doe with you combo while using rifle or bow during rifle season in a large section of Michigan.
Many officers check tags at processors


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## bwlacy (Jul 10, 2012)

I'm trying to figure out why all these people want to use a buck tag on a doe anyway.


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

Liver and Onions said:


> I'm trying to figure out why the DNR ever checked your doe. They checked your deer when it was at the processors ?
> 
> L & O


Just like a taxidermest (sp) CO's visit processors to check tags/deer brought in. 
The OP's situation is very common theme on the weekly CO reports during the season. 
As for the OP, sorry about your luck, I hope they go easy on you, and let this be a lesson to all.......know the rules.


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

bwlacy said:


> I'm trying to figure out why all these people want to use a buck tag on a doe anyway.


Because they can? Because the mere thought of losing $15 on a deer tag is cause enough to create a crisis situation? Just a couple guesses. :lol:


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## Wolverick (Dec 11, 2008)

I think the processor ratted you out. DNR have a lot of complaints to deal with, especially on opening day. I can`t see them running from processor to processor checking for same day purchases when so many deer are shot and never tagged. 

I know CO`s deal with a lot of low lives, just like regular cops. Many have bad attitudes even when no violation has taken place. I had a run in with one over some trees the county took down along a road the were widening. I had a sawmill and the head of the road crew knew it. He came to me and told me to get what I can before they burned it. So I started dragging logs to my mill. A CO pasted me as I was pulling onto my place with a load of logs. She turned around and came to my mill and proceeded to threaten me with a ticket for stealing wood. I laid out the facts as to why I was taking the wood. Did`nt seem to matter to her. 

After a half hour of wasted daylight (it was mid winter and late afternoon), she finally left without issuing a ticket. I guess she would have rather seen those 20" diameter oak burned than turned into lumber someone could use because she never let up. Her parting words were something like "get a firewood permit". 

All that is just to say, even when you are in the right you may get hassled. 

I agree about those combo license`s. I think the confusion stems from the state wanting to charge full price for a doe tag, instead of the way it used to be.


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## monkman (Aug 22, 2013)

Liver and Onions said:


> How about DMU 487 ? Page 33 of the Hunting Guide. Otherwise, I think you are correct........except of course during the Independence & Liberty Hunts, then it's ok too.
> 
> L & O


I've read that in DMU 487 you can use a combo tag to tag an antlerless deer during rifle and ML season without needing an antlerless tag.....correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Shlack (Apr 6, 2012)

PLEASE EVERYONE.... watch the video that is embedded earlier in this post. I just finished it. It is only 48 min and is full of useful information and is pretty entertaining... ( take home point is never ever talk to a LEO) ever! period! not even a little talking! even if you are innocent... at least if you don't want to be convicted of something.... maybe even a crime that is different from the one being investigated... 

Sounds like the OP comments make his situation a little different... If I am reading them correctly he wanted to take responsibility for an honest mistake... I commend that. It is very honorable.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

bucksnbows said:


> Just like a taxidermest (sp) CO's visit processors to check tags/deer brought in.
> ...................


After reading your post I had to call my processor to find out how often he gets visited. Once......ever. 5 minute visit from 2 COs. One must have been somewhat new to the job as he was being coached on what they might need to be checking. It was between the opener and Thanksgiving so he had only a couple of deer hanging. They never really looked at tags or counted points on the deer hanging. They did take a quick look at the recording book. About 2 minutes was normal conversation encouraging the processor to call them if he ever expected anything was obviously wrong.
He does get at least 1 visit per year from the Health Dept.

L & O


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## sjk984 (Jan 4, 2010)

Probably just lose your hunting provides for 3- 5 years

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## Airoh (Jan 19, 2000)

Liver and Onions said:


> After reading your post I had to call my processor to find out how often he gets visited. Once......ever. 5 minute visit from 2 COs.
> L & O


The largest processor by me has one and sometimes two DNR employees checking tags.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Airoh said:


> The largest processor by me has one and sometimes two DNR employees checking tags.


Are they doing the Successful Hunter patch too ?

L & O


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## Hackman (Aug 13, 2008)

Ok you made a mistake, but you are going to find yourself in Sing Sing singing like a canary on yourself. Lots of Officer are decent people, but it's yes sir no sir and I am not sure until you wise up. You are a fool if you think the government is acting on your best outcome. Remember when you could shoot 4 bucks I think in 1995 or 96. I will be a little harder on you, and don't give me the good sportsman crap. Telling on yourself , YOU IS A FOOL.


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## Airoh (Jan 19, 2000)

Liver and Onions said:


> Are they doing the Successful Hunter patch too ?
> 
> L & O


Not sure but I'll check. They are checking tags! That's the point. 
This subject came up a few hours too late. I was there earlier today.


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## thill (Aug 23, 2006)

It's bow season now....it's also muzzle loader season......can I shoot a doe with my bow and tag it with a combo license??? 


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## ma1979 (Oct 18, 2013)

Yes. The archery season dates are Dec.1 through Jan.1. If you read your rules it can be used on an ANTLERLESS deer IN the ARCHERY seasons.

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## RedM2 (Dec 19, 2007)

You made that CO's job a lot easier by providing a written statement. He probably also said something along the lines like he'd work with you if you provided the written statementthat's textbook. That CO may have been doing his job, but he could've cut you some slack for being honest and the fact you tried to make things right.

If I were you, I'd bank on a $1,000 fine with the possibility of losing your hunting privileges for a period of time. Unfortunately, I think he cooked you.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Airoh said:


> Not sure but I'll check. They are checking tags! That's the point.
> This subject came up a few hours too late. I was there earlier today.


DNR reps(not COs) were at the Country Smoke House, located between Imlay City & Almont, a few years ago when I stopped. Very long lines. One line to get your deer checked by the DNR for the patch and the other line to have your deer processed. You could do both lines or just 1. Your choice. If you were only there for the processing, the DNR did not check the tags. 

L & O


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## ma1979 (Oct 18, 2013)

Archery season does not stop for muzzleloader season like it does for firearm season.

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## MillDoo (May 28, 2004)

Hopefully they wont be too hard on you if this story is true. Most people would have just used their archery tag for an antlerless deer and said they shot it on the 14th.


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## Ken (Dec 6, 2000)

Maybe his wife made a request for venison and he is too lazy to even process it. Sounds bad, but just cause they have the badge doesn't mean they aren't corrupt. More so in some cases. Perfect for him. He gets brownie points for another guy caught, and a whole deer processed and paid for. Just refuse the processor bill if you don't get every ounce of venison back. You will probably get a harsh warning cause you were honest, a small fine and the satisfaction you just provided meat for the DNR holiday banquet.

Just like many of the road kill deer end up. If you hear it is being donated that is a crock.


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## bobberbill (Apr 5, 2011)

Another 'Quota' cop?? I've had one dealing with the DNR cop..He was a POS..My own property, accused me of shining deer (daytime-eve), searched my truck, made me take EVERYTHING out of my truck, just looking for something wrong. POS neighbors had called in a RAP trespasser complaint and they knew it was me just to cause problems. DNR just wanted to justify his trip. Next day I was cutting wood in the fencerow and he sat on the road with his overheads on. I ignored the whole situation. Still got neighbor problems..


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## bobberbill (Apr 5, 2011)

Here's one: Take the game digest in print form, and all the doe/buck/APR/season/ regs from last year, and this year, and previous years ( if you can find them) and hand them to the judge.. Just say 'sorry', I missed something. I thought I was taking a legal deer with a legal tag.


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

bwlacy said:


> I'm trying to figure out why all these people want to use a buck tag on a doe anyway.


Rather than applying for doe tag across the state for public land I put my restricted tag on a doe during archery season. 

Sorry to hear about the situation. The best thing to do would have been to report ot right away, or tag it 11/14


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

That sucks for more reason than one. You may have just cooked your goose for any future record book entries.......


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## brent164 (Mar 6, 2005)

Combination kill tags cannot be used to tag an antlerless deer during the firearm or muzzleloading seasons, except within dMu 487 and during the Liberty and independence hunts. see the 2013 Michigan antlerless deer Hunting digest. Exception: see tagging Option for antlerless deer Hunters on pg. 37.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

brent164 said:


> Combination kill tags cannot be used to tag an antlerless deer during the firearm or muzzleloading seasons, *except within dMu 487* and during the Liberty and independence hunts. see the 2013 Michigan antlerless deer Hunting digest. Exception: see tagging Option for antlerless deer Hunters on pg. 37.


That's what I "thought" I read..........


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## delloro (Aug 31, 2007)

> Kudos to you for doing the right thing.


but, he _didn't_ do the right thing. the _right thing_, legally speaking, would have been to call a CO and turn himself in.

anything less than that, legally speaking, was not the right thing.

any time law enforcement asks you questions, he is asking you to provide information he 1) does not have, and 2) wants for some reason not in your best interest. you are best to clam up. tell him your lawyer told you to clam up. the LEO will not like it, but he will understand.

had OP not done the CO's job for him, the CO might not have been able to do it himself.

LEO is not your friend. they are allowed to lie to us, but we are not allowed to lie to them. they are an asset to society in general, and we need them, lots of them, but any one of us are only suspects to them at any time.

I am not anti-LEO at all, but neither am I a fool.


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## SeaRay (Jan 23, 2008)

CO most likely didn't have enough on the op so he asked for a written statement (written confession). If you gave him a written statement your done. If you didn't, now that you posted on an internet forum you just gave him the same thing. I'm sure one of the CO's that follow these forums has grabed a screen shot by now.


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## thill (Aug 23, 2006)

This is where I got confused. Yes it's muzzle loader season but it's also archery season. Still unclear if I can take a doe with my bow and tag it with a combo license. Clear as mud!


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## MossyHorns (Apr 14, 2011)

thill said:


> This is where I got confused. Yes it's muzzle loader season but it's also archery season. Still unclear if I can take a doe with my bow and tag it with a combo license. Clear as mud!
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Muzzle loader season has no impact on the late archery season. A bow hunter is not even required to wear hunter orange during the muzzle loader season.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

MillDoo said:


> Hopefully they wont be too hard on you if this story is true........................
> .


Whether the story is true or not, it helps us to think and plan ahead so a mistake is not made. If we, or someone in our camp, does make a mistake this thread has provided some options to avoid a ticket or a visit from a CO.

L & O


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## Hackman (Aug 13, 2008)

Shoot the doe, tag it. Most likely farmers are shooting 30 or 40 deer in the area in the summer. Also the insurance companies are not going to complain. Get real people Michigan has enough deer for an occasional mistake. Dnr loves the money from license fee. DNR, you have venison, one less deer to mess a car up or die naturally , everybody is happy. Money myakes everybody happy,happy, happy.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Maybe the OP had a brain dead moment.

I think it is rediculous that so many hunters dont understand or want to understand the Rules, Come on its not rocket science. 

It is your resposibility to read and understand the rules before you hunt. There is no excuse.


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## d_rek (Nov 6, 2013)

Bomba said:


> Really? No there is no separate Muzzleloading tag. Some of you guys have no business in the woods if you can't figure this stuff out!


Well then you explain it to me in a clear concise and articulate way that is easy to understand. Because apparently I do not have sufficient intellect to interpret the information the DNR is made available to us.


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## Jager Pro (Nov 8, 2013)

I don't think the DNR's foremost concern is being clear. A $200 fine is more than a $15 tag.


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## PalookaJoe (Apr 2, 2012)

No matter how innocent you and other posters believe your violation was, you violated the published game laws of the State of Michigan and deserve to be prosecuted. This was no accident. What you did was stupid and intentional in nature. For that I believe you deserve especially harsh treatment. That said, why would you say anything...and I mean ANYTHING, to a law enforcement officer without a lawyer present. Short of retaining a lawyer, say NOTHING! You would be home in your lazy boy going over venison chili recipes with no worries right now!


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

bobberbill said:


> Another 'Quota' cop?? I've had one dealing with the DNR cop..He was a POS..My own property, accused me of shining deer (daytime-eve), searched my truck, made me take EVERYTHING out of my truck, just looking for something wrong.


He had YOU take everything out of your truck because if HE would have done it there would have been basis for 4A arguments as he didn't have a warrant or enough RS/PC to conduct the search himself. 

Then again, I keep hearing that CO's have "special powers" ... lol.


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## Buckeye20 (Oct 24, 2013)

livelong said:


> If one was inclined to take some of the advice offered here and not talk to a officer, or cooperate in anyway, would that just lead to the officer also becoming less cooperative. I am thinking that this tactic may get me a trip to jail, equipment impounded, being charged with everything they possibly charge me with, and more time in court.
> Several people have talked about similar situations ending with a ticket being given. If you made a mistake, and you know you made the mistake, that does not sound like the worst possible outcome.
> 
> That being said, I hope I never get a chance to test this theory!


Incorrect in every since of the word , who is the co to say he didn't buy the tag at 5 and shot the deer at 5:01 and use his legally purchased tag on it ? He had no proof this did not occurre untill the OP ratted on himself ! Honesty got him nowhere except in trouble it is not up to the CO to place punishment or go easy on a person if they tell the truth that is up to a judge , the CO has the job of collecting evidence of wrong doing , in this case he had no proof untill the OP told him !


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## ma1979 (Oct 18, 2013)

d_rek said:


> Well then you explain it to me in a clear concise and articulate way that is easy to understand. Because apparently I do not have sufficient intellect to interpret the information the DNR is made available to us.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


X2!!!!!!!!! The information on the tags don't match the information in the guide!!!!!!!!!

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## Buckeye20 (Oct 24, 2013)

To the OP ! You broke the rules , you attempted to get away with it , got caught , then told a CO what you did your honesty will not get you anywhere , I do not feel sorry for you one bit , I hope you go directly to jail and do not collect $200 if you pass go ! :lol:


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## Buckeye20 (Oct 24, 2013)

ma1979 said:


> X2!!!!!!!!! The information on the tags don't match the information in the guide!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R530X using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Let me attempt to make this clear archery season is oct 1st - nov. 14th and dec. 1st- jan 1st ! Is that clear enough ?


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

I would have denied everything:lol:


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## MIhunt (Dec 18, 2011)

Wow are some people harsh...funny how the same people that condemn him for being straight forward with the CO wouldn't call up a CO and say, "I illegally took a doe, come arrest me".


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## Buckeye20 (Oct 24, 2013)

MIhunt said:


> Wow are some people harsh...funny how the same people that condemn him for being straight forward with the CO wouldn't call up a CO and say, "I illegally took a doe, come arrest me".


Neither did he ! He told the truth only when he got caught ! Don't defend this poacher ! He comes on here talking all this poor me crap ! He did the wrong thing ! Attempted to cover it up by not only emediatly tagging the deer , but left it to go Purches a tag where is this even remotely the right thing to do ? Is this something you would teach your children ?


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## livelong (Dec 29, 2010)

Buckeye20 said:


> Incorrect in every since of the word , who is the co to say he didn't buy the tag at 5 and shot the deer at 5:01 and use his legally purchased tag on it ? He had no proof this did not occurre untill the OP ratted on himself ! Honesty got him nowhere except in trouble it is not up to the CO to place punishment or go easy on a person if they tell the truth that is up to a judge , the CO has the job of collecting evidence of wrong doing , in this case he had no proof untill the OP told him !


Then the officer does a little more checking, finds enough proof that the story doesn't add up, gets a warrant for the violation, then on Christmas Eve while he is going to his parents house he gets pulled over and arrested for the warrant. 
Clearly not the ideal way for something like this to be handled, but I don't think they would be doing anything outside the rules, and it was your choice to not handle it during the original contact.


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

Buckeye20 said:


> Neither did he ! He told the truth only when he got caught ! Don't defend this poacher ! He comes on here talking all this poor me crap ! He did the wrong thing ! Attempted to cover it up by not only emediatly tagging the deer , but left it to go Purches a tag where is this even remotely the right thing to do ? Is this something you would teach your children ?


You are kiddin right? Geez, this thread is a joke, its not like there wasn't any doe tags available, he paid the $15 and tagged it.

It is a *STUPID* law you cant use a Combo tag on a bow killed doe during gun season, makes *NO* sense and whoever thought this rule up is an idiot.


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## Buckeye20 (Oct 24, 2013)

livelong said:


> Then the officer does a little more checking, finds enough proof that the story doesn't add up, gets a warrant for the violation, then on Christmas Eve while he is going to his parents house he gets pulled over and arrested for the warrant.
> Clearly not the ideal way for something like this to be handled, but I don't think they would be doing anything outside the rules, and it was your choice to not handle it during the original contact.


1st let me say I wouldn't have this problem because I follow the rules ! 2nd what proof ? I bought the tag at 5:00 shot the deer at 5:01 ! Legally tagged it whats all this talk about Christmas ? and his parents house ?


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

Admit to nothing...deny everything and make counter accusations. Lol


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## JDSwan87 (Aug 15, 2010)

Bloodrunner said:


> It is a *STUPID* law you cant use a Como tag on a bow killed doe during gun season, makes *NO* sense and whoever thought this rule up is an idiot.


I agree, stupid law... in my county antlerless tags sold out in something like 4 hours... I got a combo tag and couldn't connect with a doe during archery and I let does walk well within range (spitting close) during gun season. I WANTED TO HARVEST A DOE but couldn't as per the laws...

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## Captain of the 4-C's (Sep 11, 2003)

This may help you understand what should have been done. A guy at work shot a 4 inch spike by mistake during gun season in an area with antler restrictions. He honestly did not see any horns and thought he was shooting a doe. He dressed it and immediately took it to the DNR. The DNR thanked him, took the deer, took his buck tag (he only buys a gun license) and did not write him a ticket. He did eventually get a doe on his doe permit. Moral of the story - if you would have been totally honest up front, you would not be worry about the fine right now.


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

CHASINEYES said:


> Admit to nothing...deny everything and make counter accusations. Lol


Very good advise:lol:


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## Buckeye20 (Oct 24, 2013)

Bloodrunner said:


> You are kiddin right? Geez, is thread is a joke, its not like there wasn't any doe tags available, he paid the $15 and tagged it.
> 
> It is a *STUPID* law you cant use a Como tag on a bow killed doe during gun season, makes *NO* sense and whoever thought this rule up is an idiot.


Actually I think it's a pretty cleaver way for the state to make more $ , my guess is this isn't the first time or the last time this will happen , however if you don't take the time to know the rules and you break them stupid as you think they are there still the law ! And because of your ignorance you just paid someone a lot of $ for breaking said law , did u not ?


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## GVDocHoliday (Sep 5, 2003)

...


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

JDSwan87 said:


> I agree, stupid law... in my county antlerless tags sold out in something like 4 hours... I got a combo tag and couldn't connect with a doe during archery and I let does walk well within range (spitting close) during gun season. I WANTED TO HARVEST A DOE but couldn't as per the laws...
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Ohub Campfire mobile app


I would love to sit down and have a couple beers with whoever thinks some of our game laws up. I just don't understand their reasoning on a few of them?

Is it they want to try and make an extra $15 buy making you buy a doe tag for gun season? I just don't get it:lol:


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

Buckeye20 said:


> Actually I think it's a pretty cleaver way for the state to make more $ , my guess is this isn't the first time or the last time this will happen , however if you don't take the time to know the rules and you break them stupid as you think they are there still the law ! And because of your ignorance you just paid someone a lot of $ for breaking said law , did u not ?


I agree he should have known the rules, but to give someone a misdemeanor over not having the *"right"* $15 doe tag is a little extreme for a 1st offense. I would have made them prove it.

The OP is not a poacher, IMO, he paid $30 for deer tags and shot the deer legally.


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## Jager Pro (Nov 8, 2013)

Question, why the hell does a firearm license ask you the sex of the deer? I don't know what a doe tag looks like but I assume that it would say doe on it. Therefor a firearm license shouldn't even have sex on it... unless I'm missing something here.


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## d_rek (Nov 6, 2013)

Jager Pro said:


> Question, why the hell does a firearm license ask you the sex of the deer? I don't know what a doe tag looks like but I assume that it would say doe on it. Therefor a firearm license shouldn't even have sex on it... unless I'm missing something here.


It doesn't there is a regular firearm tag good for any antlered deer and then there is an antler less tag. You must notch for sex 


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## Buckeye20 (Oct 24, 2013)

Bloodrunner said:


> I agree he should have known the rules, but to give someone a misdemeanor over not having the *"right"* $15 doe tag is a little extreme for a 1st offense. I would have made them prove it.
> 
> The OP is not a poacher, IMO, he paid $30 for deer tags and shot the deer legally.


 The poacher part was a joke !! :lol: 
In all seriousness though the CO could have not made a case at all without him admitting to it , that and the fact he only did the right thing after being questioned about it , doesn't make what he did right !


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## Jager Pro (Nov 8, 2013)

d_rek said:


> It doesn't there is a regular firearm tag good for any antlered deer and then there is an antler less tag. Neither identifies sex
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is my 2013 resident deer firearm license. This tag is good for taking 1 antlered deer (one antler must be longer than 3 inches (assuming its in my current DMU)). It is both my firearm license and kill tag. And as you can see one of the things that I must mark to verify the kill is the sex of the deer, however I am only allowed to kill a buck with this license.


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## Captain of the 4-C's (Sep 11, 2003)

Does can have antlers too - it is good for an antlered deer - might be an old doe or one with screwed up hormones. Besides that, it would take more coding in the computer to have "male" only on it.


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## Buckeye20 (Oct 24, 2013)

Jager Pro said:


> This is my 2013 resident deer firearm license. This tag is good for taking 1 antlered deer (one antler must be longer than 3 inches (assuming its in my current DMU)). It is both my firearm license and kill tag. And as you can see one of the things that I must mark to verify the kill is the sex of the deer, however I am only allowed to kill a buck with this license.


You could always shoot a doe with it , then go buy a doe tag after you shot it ! :lol:


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## Jager Pro (Nov 8, 2013)

Captain of the 4-C's said:


> Does can have antlers too - it is good for an antlered deer - might be an old doe or one with screwed up hormones. Besides that, it would take more coding in the computer to have "male" only on it.


Good point, forgot that does could be antlered... I think a user's kid got one this year too.


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

Bomba said:


> Really? No there is no separate Muzzleloading tag. Some of you guys have no business in the woods if you can't figure this stuff out!


I agree. It is scary that people cant figure this out.


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## MIhunt (Dec 18, 2011)

Buckeye20 said:


> Neither did he ! He told the truth only when he got caught ! Don't defend this poacher ! He comes on here talking all this poor me crap ! He did the wrong thing ! Attempted to cover it up by not only emediatly tagging the deer , but left it to go Purches a tag where is this even remotely the right thing to do ? Is this something you would teach your children ?


He made a mistake. It's not like he knew he was illegally taking the deer. This would be a weak form of poaching. I'd much rather see a CO go after the big aholes that shoot deer, take the straps and leave it in the woods than someone who unintentionally poached. 

It bothers me when people act all tough and hopes he gets the max penalty. I think getting the venison taken and a fine would be plenty. The OP knows he did wrong and feels bad about it, I'm sure he won't do it again. 


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## steve myers (Dec 29, 2000)

I agree he owned up to it and will be reading law book better i bet too.hope you get minimal fines.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

You can also shoot a doe on a firearm tag in the NELP. It's been that way for a few years.


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## PTPD2312 (Oct 19, 2004)

Buckeye20 said:


> Incorrect in every since of the word , who is the co to say he didn't buy the tag at 5 and shot the deer at 5:01 and use his legally purchased tag on it ? He had no proof this did not occurre untill the OP ratted on himself ! Honesty got him nowhere except in trouble it is not up to the CO to place punishment or go easy on a person if they tell the truth that is up to a judge , the CO has the job of collecting evidence of wrong doing , in this case he had no proof untill the OP told him !


So in your scenario you walked/drove to the establishment and purchased your tag at 5 and then in 60 seconds you left the establishment walked/drove to your property or State land, loaded weapon of choice and shot a deer. Yup, that's one heck of a story!

Apparently you've never heard of officer discrection? This happens every day and I'm sure this CO could have arrested, issued a citation, impounded deer and confiscated the weapon used but all that did not happen. 

And for the rest of the people bashing law enforcement please don't talk to them. Don't talk to them when you need them for something even a minor accident or some other minor/major crisis in your life. If the police show up you remain silent and not say a single word even if you are innocent in every way then they have nothing to go on besides what is seen. Obviously don't incriminate yourself, but people are stupid and do just that.


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## GVDocHoliday (Sep 5, 2003)

This is the equivalent of hunting without a license. He was out hunting, he shot an animal for which he did not have a valid kill tag for.

What if this county did not have over the counter antlerless tags available?


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## thisusernamevalid (Sep 14, 2013)

Jager Pro said:


> This is my 2013 resident deer firearm license. This tag is good for taking 1 antlered deer (one antler must be longer than 3 inches (assuming its in my current DMU)). It is both my firearm license and kill tag. And as you can see one of the things that I must mark to verify the kill is the sex of the deer, however I am only allowed to kill a buck with this license.


Unless you're hunting in DMU 487, in which case you are allowed to take either a buck or a doe on that license. It's been like that for several years. They're trying to wipe out the heard due to tuberculosis


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## Jager Pro (Nov 8, 2013)

thisusernamevalid said:


> Unless you're hunting in DMU 487, in which case you are allowed to take either a buck or a doe on that license. It's been like that for several years. They're trying to wipe out the heard due to tuberculosis


Ahh ok. So that's the main reason why sex is on it.


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## Musket (May 11, 2009)

You violated a state game law, tried to get away with it and got caught.


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## Buckeye20 (Oct 24, 2013)

To quote ptpd:
Apparently you've never heard of officer discrection? This happens every day and I'm sure this CO could have arrested, issued a citation, impounded deer and confiscated the weapon used but all that did not happen. 


None of this could happen either without proof ! Just because a co thinks I'm guilty of a crime they cant do $*** without proof ! Him telling him he shot the doe gives all the proof they needed !
Even if you get arrested they have a few days to charge u or reliese u , without proof no charges would have even been filed !


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

GVDocHoliday said:


> .............
> 
> What if this county did not have over the counter antlerless tags available?


Go back and take a look at post #46 again. Pretty simple solution.

L & O


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## Brandaman14 (Nov 6, 2013)

To further muddy the situation I was hunting in an area where only archery is allowed...no firearms. After hunting since October 1st, the fact that it was now firearm season didn't affect me, so I guess it didn't register. The thought that I would now need to purchase another tag to shoot a doe didn't cross my mind. 

I realize it was probably foolish to rat myself out, but it is one thing to say that you wouldn't talk, and it is another to have a government vehicle pull up your driveway and a uniformed officer start questioning you. I'm not a very good liar and don't have a lawyer to lawyer up with anyway...so I felt my only choice was to be honest. 

I'm sorry if I offended any of you fellow hunters by doing what I did. I can honestly say at the time I shot the deer, I thought I was well within my rights. When I realized that I wasn't, I did the most reasonable thing that I could think of by purchasing the proper tag. Believe me, I won't make this same mistake again, so lesson learned. Unfortunately I might not have the opportunity to hunt again for quite some time.


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

Bloodrunner said:


> Very good advise:lol:


I can understand where the confusion comes from, its the archery rule. An easy oversight. 

Another favorite of mine is " still mouth, wise head" lol


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## ma1979 (Oct 18, 2013)

Buckeye20 said:


> Let me attempt to make this clear archery season is oct 1st - nov. 14th and dec. 1st- jan 1st ! Is that clear enough ?


Exactly!!!!!!!!! According to your tag you can use it on an ANTLERLESS deer IN those seasons. But according to the guide you can NOT!!!!!!!!!

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## Buckeye20 (Oct 24, 2013)

ma1979 said:


> Exactly!!!!!!!!! According to your tag you can use it on an ANTLERLESS deer IN those seasons. But according to the guide you can NOT!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R530X using Ohub Campfire mobile app


If your hunting with a bow , then you are hunting archery season ! Do you still not get it ? Cmon man !


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## ma1979 (Oct 18, 2013)

Buckeye20 said:


> If your hunting with a bow , then you are hunting archery season ! Do you still not get it ? Cmon man !


Yes I TOTALLY agree with you 100 percent!!!! If you read my earlier posts you'll see that. BUT get your guide out and READ the section entitled " Combination deer hunting license" now read the last paragraph in that section. 

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## brent164 (Mar 6, 2005)

Buckeye20 said:


> If your hunting with a bow , then you are hunting archery season ! Do you still not get it ? Cmon man !


Read my post on page four, it says right in the guide that you cannot use your combo tag to tag an antlerless deer in muzzleloader season. I, along with many other people thought the same thing you did, until reading that


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## MossyHorns (Apr 14, 2011)

Buckeye20 said:


> If your hunting with a bow , then you are hunting archery season ! Do you still not get it ? Cmon man !


It's scary how many so called hunters on here can't read and comprehend the rules. :sad: The basic rules for the combo tag have been the same since it was introduced many years ago.


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## MossyHorns (Apr 14, 2011)

brent164 said:


> Read my post on page four, it says right in the guide that you cannot use your combo tag to tag an antlerless deer in muzzleloader season. I, along with many other people thought the same thing you did, until reading that


Let me say this again. :yikes: The muzzle loader season has no impact on the late archery season. An archery hunter does not have to follow the muzzle loader rules because he is not hunting with a muzzy. I can go out and use my combo tag on a doe any time during the late archery season in the area I hunt.


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## PTPD2312 (Oct 19, 2004)

So here's a question. Can one take a bow and arrow along with a muzzy out during archery/muzzy season since they overlap seasons if one has both tags of the combo still and a doe permit? 

So basically if a doe comes within range one would use the bow but if a buck comes out of range of the bow one would use a muzzy.

I've received different answers on this from COs and it is very confusing.


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## MIhunt (Dec 18, 2011)

PTPD2312 said:


> So here's a question. Can one take a bow and arrow along with a muzzy out during archery/muzzy season since they overlap seasons if one has both tags of the combo still and a doe permit?
> 
> So basically if a doe comes within range one would use the bow but if a buck comes out of range of the bow one would use a muzzy.
> 
> I've received different answers on this from COs and it is very confusing.


Why would you want to take both? If you've got a doe permit the muzzy would be fine by itself. 


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## brent164 (Mar 6, 2005)

My initial thought was right. you can use it, as long as your bow hunting. You cant use a muzzleloader and tag it. And yes my reading comprehension sucks, always has. That why I'm asking.


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## d_rek (Nov 6, 2013)

PTPD2312 said:


> So here's a question. Can one take a bow and arrow along with a muzzy out during archery/muzzy season since they overlap seasons if one has both tags of the combo still and a doe permit?
> 
> So basically if a doe comes within range one would use the bow but if a buck comes out of range of the bow one would use a muzzy.
> 
> I've received different answers on this from COs and it is very confusing.


No. The hunting digest states that you can only carry afield a crossbow during ML season if hunting with a ML. 


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

d_rek said:


> No. The hunting digest states that you can only carry afield a crossbow during ML season if hunting with a ML.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What page ?

L & O


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## d_rek (Nov 6, 2013)

Liver and Onions said:


> What page ?
> 
> L & O


Page 19
During the december muzzleloading seasons, muzzleloading deer hunters
can carry afield and use only a crossbow (except in the Upper Peninsula) or a muzzleloading rifle, a muzzleloading shotgun, or a black powder handgun loaded with black powder or a commercially manufactured black powder substitute. Only certified hunters with a disability may use a crossbow or a modified bow during the muzzleloading season in the upper peninsula.


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## Buckeye20 (Oct 24, 2013)

Are people really this F ing stupid ?


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## d_rek (Nov 6, 2013)

Buckeye20 said:


> Are people really this F ing stupid ?


Since you have so easily interpreted all aspects of the hunting digest, kill tags, and general michigan hunting law then PLEASE enlighten us laypersons! Apparently we do not possess the same capacity to interpret those things as you do.


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

d_rek said:


> Page 19
> During the december muzzleloading seasons, muzzleloading deer hunters
> can carry afield and use only a crossbow (except in the Upper Peninsula) or a muzzleloading rifle, a muzzleloading shotgun, or a black powder handgun loaded with black powder or a commercially manufactured black powder substitute. Only certified hunters with a disability may use a crossbow or a modified bow during the muzzleloading season in the upper peninsula.
> 
> ...


Reading that just killed some brain cells:lol:

What the are they saying, you cant carry a muzzy and a vert bow? Why not?


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

d_rek said:


> .... muzzleloading deer hunters............


The original question was.........can you legally be a muzzleloading hunter and an archery hunter at the same time, thus carrying both sets of equipment. After all, both seasons are open. The above only applies to someone who is a muzzleloader only, IMO.
I'll bet ya a beer on this one.

L & O


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

This is a perfect example of why we need to simplify our deer licensing requirements and also tweak the rules a bit too to reduce cheating the system. I recommend that only bucks should be tagged with combo, regular firearms or archery tags. The only legal way to kill an antlerless deer should be with an antlerless permit. This would reduce a lot of confusion and would also eliminate antlerless deer from being killed in areas where they aught not be killed with archery and crossbow equipment. I'd also like to see the DNR go back to the rule where you were required to buy a buck tag before purchasing an antlerless tag. This would reduce the incidences of violations a lot. Its a very common practice for hunters to go into the woods with a standalone antlerless tag in their pocket and only buy a buck tag after they shoot a buck. I'd also like to see a change made where if someone buys a separate archery deer license and also a firearms deer license, then the second license that rolls off the printer is automatically marked as a restricted license by the computer good for bucks with at least four, one-inch long points on one antler. This would eliminate a lot of cheating where people kill two small bucks and is likely a main reason why so many separate bow and gun licenses are sold instead of combo licenses.


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## Buckeye20 (Oct 24, 2013)

d_rek said:


> Then enlighten us!


See post # 128 ,; but I will try again , if you have a bow in your hand while hunting between dec1st - jan.1st you are a archery hunter and in being a archery hunter you probly have a combo tag , if u do , follow what the tag says . Including Taging a doe even if there is people in the woods with muzzleloaders in there hand !
The end !


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## TrekJeff (Sep 7, 2007)

delloro said:


> either you have a typo in your prior post, or I am up too late. you wrote that pleading not guilty takes away any chance to negotiate. didn't you?



If I did, edited. I'm up too late...lol


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## Buckeye20 (Oct 24, 2013)

jatc said:


> No you absolutely can NOT carry a bow and a muzzy and use your Combo Tag on a doe!
> 
> It is stated that you can't carry a firearm while bowhunting. Now, if you have a CPL and have a 9mm on you, that's one thing, but to have a .50 cal muzzy while bowhunting is quite another.
> 
> ...


^^^ somebody knows what he talking about ^^^ finally ! There is still hope for this state after all !


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## chris-remington (Oct 7, 2012)

I would have turned myself in, I'm anal about being honest, but at the same time I don't turn myself in for speeding. I know I'll catch flak and people will say no you wouldn't, but I know I would have. The guy was honest with the co, in my book that's ok with me.


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## Sticks-n-strings (Dec 8, 2013)

jatc said:


> No you absolutely can NOT carry a bow and a muzzy and use your Combo Tag on a doe!
> 
> It is stated that you can't carry a firearm while bowhunting. Now, if you have a CPL and have a 9mm on you, that's one thing, but to have a .50 cal muzzy while bowhunting is quite another.
> 
> ...


But...if you look at these rules...

(3) Subject to section 43510(2) and (3), 1994 PA 451, as amended, MCL 324.43510, a person hunting deer with a muzzleloading firearm during the muzzle-loading and black-powder firearms season *shall only possess or carry afield, or take a deer with a muzzle-loading rifle, muzzle-loading shotgun, or black-powder pistol, loaded with black-powder or a commercially manufactured black-powder substitute, or a crossbow. *

*(4) The open bow and arrow season shall be from October 1 through November 14 and from December 1 through January 1.* 

(5) Subject to section 43510(2) and (3), 1994 PA 451, as amended, MCL 324.43510, *during the open bow and arrow season*, a person hunting deer with a bow and arrow or a crossbow shall not possess or carry afield a pistol, revolver, or *any other firearm* *unless* the person is *properly licensed to hunt deer with a firearm and is hunting in an area open to firearm deer hunting.* 

While the muzzleloader season says you can't carry a bow and arrow the bow and arrow season states that you *CAN *carry a firearm when propertly licensed to hunt deer with a firearm (combo tag) and is hunting in an area open to firearm deer hunting (muzzleloading season). So in the case of a archery/muzzleloader hunter this needs to be clarified as a *COMBO TAG* is *VALID* for *BOTH* archery *AND* firearm seasons. These two rules contradict one another.


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## kisherfisher (Apr 6, 2008)

delloro said:


> either you have a typo in your prior post, or I am up too late. you wrote that pleading not guilty takes away any chance to negotiate. didn't you?


Read his post again,you are up too late. But I agree what you said about the op being honest. He was after the fact. Consider the fact that the COs have heard every excuse, lie, story there is. Aftr awhile you become pretty hardened with the facts at hand, and sift thru the BS to "just the facts at hand".Its a just the way the majority feels they deserve a break, When they get caught.Some may be trivial like this, but when a complaint is acted upon, you must to your due diligence in up holding the laws of the state.His decision to give breaks are not just his own. He has to answer to his supervisor , the complainant , and whoever else may question his decison. Ninety percent of the time things go way easier to justify doing your job and cite whatever violation is present. In this day and age descretion is almost totally removed fron Law Enforcement.Sad day indeed, and have several friends leaving this profession, because of this.


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## 454casull (Jan 6, 2005)

Crossbow needs to be removed from statement #3, as they are now on equal ground with traditional hand drawn bows. why they were ever included in a firearm rule is beyond me.


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## PA BUCK 2 (Oct 17, 2006)

Brandaman14 said:


> To further muddy the situation I was hunting in an area where only archery is allowed...no firearms. After hunting since October 1st, the fact that it was now firearm season didn't affect me, so I guess it didn't register. The thought that I would now need to purchase another tag to shoot a doe didn't cross my mind.
> 
> I realize it was probably foolish to rat myself out, but it is one thing to say that you wouldn't talk, and it is another to have a government vehicle pull up your driveway and a uniformed officer start questioning you. I'm not a very good liar and don't have a lawyer to lawyer up with anyway...so I felt my only choice was to be honest.
> 
> I'm sorry if I offended any of you fellow hunters by doing what I did. I can honestly say at the time I shot the deer, I thought I was well within my rights. When I realized that I wasn't, I did the most reasonable thing that I could think of by purchasing the proper tag. Believe me, I won't make this same mistake again, so lesson learned. Unfortunately I might not have the opportunity to hunt again for quite some time.


I think you will be cut some slack if presented in the correct manner. One of the big things with a crime is intent... My wife is an attorney and would be happy to talk with you if you would like... she already said she would. you did wrong, you realized it and tried to correct. 

I do agree that we should not discuss matters with LEO.... It does not matter if you have a lawyer, just tell them you would like legal representation and nothing more.... good luck and I hope it works out for you without costing you legal hunting time or too much $$$.


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

PA BUCK 2 said:


> .... good luck and I hope it works out for you without costing you legal hunting time or too much $$$.


This is how it all begins... unlawful tagging of a deer this year... borrowing tags and hunting while revoked next year.

Guys like this end up having to sell their new truck to cover legal expenses and fines. Then, out of necessity, they pick up a rusted out 1997 Dodge. One of those with a 318 that won't start any time it rains outside... a genuine vehicle that everybody is afraid to park next to at the supermarket. 

Pretty soon comes the debate I encountered just yesterday between 2 gentlemen dressed in camo jackets at the Meijers in Jackson. They were at the crossroads of whether to spend their pooled assets on ammo - or - "a bag of dope". Let's hope they didn't find enough empty Busch Lite cans under the seat of their Dodge to buy both.

The social degeneration continues from there. 

2 years from now the employer finds out about the misdemeanor conviction (tagging violation) through a random background check. 

In 3 years the unemployment runs out. Unable to find a 'good paying job' because the $15/hr minimum wage thing didn't gain more speed, there is one last option: an entrepreneurial start-up operation (meth lab). 

4 years from now hunting doesn't matter anymore. The xbow is long gone (traded for half a tank of gas & 2 packs of Marlboro reds) and with no teeth left to chew meat the menu is a toss-up between Ramen and Campbell's chicken noodle. One day the meth lab gets raided after the OP calls LE to report one of his clients robbing him of his most prized possessions: his sleeping bag and the Martha Stewart kitchen timer he used to ensure he didn't overcook the day's bake. LE doesn't buy his line of being an aspiring research chemist and uses the misdemeanor conviction on his record (tagging violation again) as RS to secure a warrant. 

5 years from now he finds himself in the Jackson State Pen sharing a cell with one of the guys from the ammo/dope buy.

I read about this stuff all the time. Sad really. And it all started with a written confession to a tagging violation.




Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

> I read about this stuff all the time. Sad really. And it all started with a written confession to a tagging violation.


:lol:, so true, many people go down hill fast after one petty crime, and being run thru the legal system.

The way this State is run, they might make him take alcohol and drug tests for 2 years, even tho they were no part of the crime.

100 AA classes, because he has had a drink at one time in the past, and that must of made him forget to buy a antlerless tag


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## Blueump (Aug 20, 2005)

The OP claims he make a mistake, but then clearly tried to hide up his "error" by purchasing a doe tag and illegally tagging the deer, an obvious attempt to cover up his violation. I doubt he would have come on here and announced his discretion if he hadn't been caught. I feel no sympathy for him. One of the first things they teach you in hunter's safety is to KNOW the laws before you even hunt. I wish Michigan would require violators like this to not only lose their game, pay a fine or lose their hunting privilege but also require they pass a hunter safety course again!


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

Blueump said:


> The OP claims he make a mistake, but then clearly tried to hide up his "error" by purchasing a doe tag and illegally tagging the deer, an obvious attempt to cover up his violation. I doubt he would have come on here and announced his discretion if he hadn't been caught. I feel no sympathy for him. One of the first things they teach you in hunter's safety is to KNOW the laws before you even hunt. I wish Michigan would require violators like this to not only lose their game, pay a fine or lose their hunting privilege but also require they pass a hunter safety course again!


So he is a "violator" for not buying the right available $15 tag?

I would have thought the same thing he did, but I have never in my life put a combo tag on a doe. 

Too me Combo tags are worth a hundred times more than some petty antlerless tag. Combo tags only go on bucks in my world. 

So in reality he was going to put a much more coveted tag on that deer, than some dime a dozen doe tag.


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## Blueump (Aug 20, 2005)

Bloodrunner said:


> So he is a "violator" for not buying the right available $15 tag?
> 
> I would have thought the same thing he did, but I have never in my life put a combo tag on a doe.
> 
> ...


No, he was a violator for shooting a doe without a legal tag! How much more obvious does it get? Claiming ignorance of the regulations is a cop out and an excuse, proven by the OP when he immediately went to purchase a "correct" tag to cover it up!

Would you support a "hunter" that shot a buck, then went to purchase a legal tag after the fact? Basically this is exactly what the OP did and you're defending him! If it was truly a mistake, he wouldn't have tried to cover it up -no he didn't try to make it right, he tried to hide his violation! Yes a VIOLATOR!


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## Hawgleg (Jan 3, 2009)

Blueump said:


> The OP claims he make a mistake, but then clearly tried to hide up his "error" by purchasing a doe tag and illegally tagging the deer, an obvious attempt to cover up his violation. I doubt he would have come on here and announced his discretion if he hadn't been caught. I feel no sympathy for him. One of the first things they teach you in hunter's safety is to KNOW the laws before you even hunt. I wish Michigan would require violators like this to not only lose their game, pay a fine or lose their hunting privilege but also require they pass a hunter safety course again!


If he was your son or brother would you be judging him this way?


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## Blueump (Aug 20, 2005)

Hawgleg said:


> If he was your son or brother would you be judging him this way?


My brother, YES! 

My son knows the rules we have and follows them. If he breaks those rules he should expect to pay the consequences, not come on a public forum of supposed "sportsmen" and expect sympathy!


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

Blueump said:


> No, he was a violator for shooting a doe without a legal tag! How much more obvious does it get? Claiming ignorance of the regulations is a cop out and an excuse, proven by the OP when he immediately went to purchase a "correct" tag to cover it up!
> 
> Would you support a "hunter" that shot a buck, then went to purchase a legal tag after the fact? Basically this is exactly what the OP did and you're defending him! If it was truly a mistake, he wouldn't have tried to cover it up -no he didn't try to make it right, he tried to hide his violation! Yes a VIOLATOR!


If he was a true violator he would have NOT tagged the deer at all, and drove it home and butchered it. That's what real violators do.

So you think he was trying to save $15 and wait till he actually killed a doe before buying the tag? 

The area he was hunting you can buy 5 doe tags over the counter. I am surprised they don't give them away at gas stations with a fill up.


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## Blueump (Aug 20, 2005)

Bloodrunner said:


> If he was a true violator he would have NOT tagged the deer at all, and drove it home and butchered it. That's what real violators do.
> 
> So you think he was trying to save $15 and wait till he actually killed a doe before buying the tag?
> 
> The area he was hunting you can buy 5 doe tags over the counter. I am surprised they don't give them away at gas stations with a fill up.


I think he saw a deer and shot it, knowing full well it wasn't legal. Then by his own admission tried to cover it up after shooting a deer he didn't have a tag for. If he was trying to save $15, he wouldn't have bought the tag. A "low level" violator as you may deem it is still a violator! If he wasn't a violator, why did the meat get taken, why was he reported, and why is he in fear of prosecution?


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## Bloodrunner (Feb 3, 2011)

Blueump said:


> I think he saw a deer and shot it, knowing full well it wasn't legal. Then by his own admission tried to cover it up after shooting a deer he didn't have a tag for. If he was trying to save $15, he wouldn't have bought the tag. A "low level" violator as you may deem it is still a violator! If he wasn't a violator, why did the meat get taken, why was he reported, and why is he in fear of prosecution?


Okay, 

I just find it hard too believe anyone in their right mind would purposely wait too buy a doe tag after the kill, when doe tags are so readily available?


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## Hawgleg (Jan 3, 2009)

Blueump said:


> My brother, YES!
> 
> My son knows the rules we have and follows them. If he breaks those rules he should expect to pay the consequences, not come on a public forum of supposed "sportsmen" and expect sympathy!


You are trying to put words in his mouth. Read the original post, he never asked for sympathy or expected to not pay for his consequences. I have seen you post on the Ohio site, please stay in Michigan as we don't need 2013 members of the year like you down here.


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## perchyanker (Jan 26, 2011)

I don't know anybody that will shoot a doe opening day of gun season on purpose, at least anybody that has any experience with opening day of gun season. Which makes me think the possibility of a honest mistake is there. Then I think how all the shooting has to give him some kind of clue its gun season but, I am unsure how big of a archery only area he is in. 


I would not find myself in a position of shooting a doe on opening day of gun season but, if I did and found myself in the other OP position I would of done the same exact thing except taking right to a processer as most times I process my own. 


I am not so sure the processer would rat him out and have read several DNR reports of them catching people and most of those if not all the reports end with "a confession from the person" 


Everybody is right about not talking to any LE. I got stopped last year over Thanksgiving weekend by the DNR because I was slow rolling down a road and asked if I had any loaded weapons which I did not. Then asked if I had any success this year. I told them I shot a doe on the 17th and his check for loaded weapon stop turned into a interrogation. Where did I shoot it? Asking me what day I shot it on then a few other questions then again asking me what day I shot it on. I even told him I knew what he was doing as I religiously read the bi-weekly reports and he continued to try and get me to twist my words around. He was checking the date I purchased the doe permit. Then after about a 30 minute delay he handed me my stuff and told me I was free to go and almost sensed he was disappointed. 


I respect the job they do but, it wasn't right to hold me up as long as he did. Should of checked my weapon, seen it was unloaded and sent me on my way. I got the vibe I was guilty in his eyes and found myself on trail right there on the road trying to prove my innocence. 


So saying anything to them is a bad idea when finding yourself in a traffic stop. I am waiting for the next time to use the line "Sir I respect the job you do but, I don't answer questions"


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Blueump said:


> I think he saw a deer and shot it, knowing full well it wasn't legal.............
> ...........


You must have some unparalleled psychic powers to know that.
Be sure to read the thread that November Sunrise started about chest-thumpers like you.

L & O


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