# 2016-17 WaterfowlSeason Dates



## tallbear (May 18, 2005)

*2016-17 Waterfowl Season Dates*


*Youth Season*
September 10-11 statewide


*Ducks*


EXPERIMENTAL EARLY TEAL
Species: Blue-winged Teal and Green-winged Teal ONLY
Season Dates: September 1 - 7 statewide
Shooting Hours: Sunrise to Sunset
Daily Bag Limit: 6 teal
REGULAR SEASON


NORTH ZONE
September 24 to November 20 and November 26 to November 27


MIDDLE ZONE
October 1 to November 27 and December 17-18


SOUTH ZONE
October 8 to December 4 and December 31-January 1, 2017


DAILY BAG LIMITS
6 ducks which may include no more than 4 mallards (no more than 2 of which may be a
female), 3 wood ducks, 2 redheads, 3 scaup, 2 pintails, 1 black duck, and 2 canvasbacks.

*Geese *


CANADA GEESE

NORTH ZONE
September 1-30
Daily bag limit = 5
October 1 to December 16
Daily bag limit = 3

MIDDLE ZONE
September 1-30
Daily bag limit = 5
October 1 to December 14 and December 17-18
Daily bag limit = 3

SOUTH ZONE, SAGINAW COUNTY GMU, AND TUSCOLA/HURON GMU
September 1-25
Daily bag limit = 5
October 8 to December 4, December 31 to January 1, and January 21 to February 11
Daily bag limit = 3

ALLEGAN COUNTY GMU
September 1-7
Daily bag limit = 5
November 5 to December 23 and December 26 to February 12, 2017
Daily bag limit = 3

MUSKEGON WASTEWATER GMU
October 15 to November 12 and December 3-20
Daily bag limit = 3

LIGHT GEESE(SNOW,BLUE, ROSS), WHITE-FRONTED GEESE, AND BRANT
NORTH ZONE
September 1 to December 16
Snow, Blue, and Ross daily bag limit = 20
Brant and White-fronted daily bag limit = 1

MIDDLE ZONE
September 1 to December 14 and December 17-18
Snow, Blue, and Ross daily bag limit = 20
Brant and White-fronted daily bag limit = 1

SOUTH ZONE, SAGINAW COUNTY GMU, AND TUSCOLA/HURON GMU
September 1-25, October 8 to December 4, and December 31 to January 1
Snow, Blue, and Ross daily bag limit = 20
Brant and White-fronted daily bag limit = 1

ALLEGAN COUNTY GMU
September 1-7, November 5 to December 23, and December 26 to February 12, 2017
Snow, Blue, and Ross daily bag limit = 20
Brant and White-fronted daily bag limit = 1

MUSKEGON WASTEWATER GMU
October 15 to November 12 and December 3-20
Snow, Blue, and Ross daily bag limit = 20
Brant and White-fronted daily bag limit = 1


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## Swamp Boss (Mar 14, 2003)

Good stuff! Thanks for posting.


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## hammerdown (Sep 28, 2011)

we lost 5 birds a day late season that is absolutely bull **** no more blood baths in the snow now it will be 3 flocks and done (((((


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

hammerdown said:


> we lost 5 birds a day late season that is absolutely bull **** no more blood baths in the snow now it will be 3 flocks and done (((((


Our gains here far outweigh our losses. That season matrix allows us to hunt geese for most of the entire month of September with a 5 bird limit. It also gives us a 3 bird limit throughout the regular season. These are the times when migration is in full-swing and the bird populations are most available.

I will gladly trade the opportunities presented here for a three bird limit during our late winter season.

Will a 3 bird limit during the late season cause you to quit hunting then?


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## fowlme (Jun 19, 2009)

Is this the proposed frame work or already set?


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

damn kids get all the good dates...


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

hammerdown said:


> we lost 5 birds a day late season that is absolutely bull **** no more blood baths in the snow now it will be 3 flocks and done (((((


someday everyone will realize opportunity outweighs quality of hunt. this is michigan, its been that way for a long time now...specially since hunters fund the whole system.


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## tallbear (May 18, 2005)

fowlme said:


> Is this the proposed frame work or already set?


These are set.


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## Barry McCockner (Jan 20, 2016)

I like it. I can't wait to by my duck stamp with a marsh hawk on it and get out after 'em!


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## hammerdown (Sep 28, 2011)

John Singer said:


> Our gains here far outweigh our losses. That season matrix allows us to hunt geese for most of the entire month of September with a 5 bird limit. It also gives us a 3 bird limit throughout the regular season. These are the times when migration is in full-swing and the bird populations are most available.
> 
> I will gladly trade the opportunities presented here for a three bird limit during our late winter season.
> 
> ...


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## Michigan Muck Hunter (Sep 14, 2015)

Love the new goose bags. Still dislike the dates for our Regular Season. Can someone direct me to where a hunters opinion can be heard within the dates. I would like to petition new dates if at all possible.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

you do. very small majority do.


Michigan Muck Hunter said:


> Love the new goose bags. Still dislike the dates for our Regular Season. Can someone direct me to where a hunters opinion can be heard within the dates. I would like to petition new dates if at all possible.


what dates do you want, nothing like a good debate to fire up the boards.


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

Shiawassee Kid, do you want to fire up the boards? How about a discussion on a topic that you brought up a while back? You came up with an idea that I would entertain and support. You had suggested that the quality of hunting on our managed areas was better back when we had a 3 bird limit and smaller party size.

Let's talk about a reduced bag limit and reduced party size on our managed areas. I suggest a 3 mallard/4 bird limit and a party size maximum of 3. I hypothesize that reducing the bag limit and party size would reduce the daily pressure on the zones within our managed areas and ultimately improve the quality of our hunting there.

Flame away!


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## hammerdown (Sep 28, 2011)

John Singer said:


> Shiawassee Kid, do you want to fire up the boards? How about a discussion on a topic that you brought up a while back? You came up with an idea that I would entertain and support. You had suggested that the quality of hunting on our managed areas was better back when we had a 3 bird limit and smaller party size.
> 
> Let's talk about a reduced bag limit and reduced party size on our managed areas. I suggest a 3 mallard/4 bird limit and a party size maximum of 3. I hypothesize that reducing the bag limit and party size would reduce the daily pressure on the zones within our managed areas and ultimately improve the quality of our hunting there.
> 
> Flame away!


there is not a pressure problem with the late goose 5 bird limit there is a lazy hunter problem now we have to work just as hard for three when it was five and late season geese are dumb ass rocks in the snow so why drop it to accommodate the average joe who only goes a few times a year and puts forth hardly any effort the state of Michigan wonders why waterfowler number drop and drop our duck season is to early there are harldy any flight birds down if they were down i would not be in Manitoba slaying them the last week of October like i allways due they have not even left 97% of the time till after Halloween... 

just a opinion food for thought!!!


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## Dead Bird (Oct 2, 2001)

hammerdown said:


> there is not a pressure problem with the late goose 5 bird limit there is a lazy hunter problem now we have to work just as hard for three when it was five and late season geese are dumb ass rocks in the snow so why drop it to accommodate the average joe who only goes a few times a year and puts forth hardly any effort the state of Michigan wonders why waterfowler number drop and drop our duck season is to early there are harldy any flight birds down if they were down i would not be in Manitoba slaying them the last week of October like i allways due they have not even left 97% of the time till after Halloween...
> 
> just a opinion food for thought!!!


I don't consider myself as lazy,,,, I look at it his way... I got an extra 15 days at 5 per day... plus an extra bird every day of the regular season... so that is alot of extra birds that I couldn't get last year...

since I hunt both ducks and geese I am not so upset... if I was a goose hunter only than maybe I would have a differnt view...


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

John Singer said:


> Shiawassee Kid, do you want to fire up the boards? How about a discussion on a topic that you brought up a while back? You came up with an idea that I would entertain and support. You had suggested that the quality of hunting on our managed areas was better back when we had a 3 bird limit and smaller party size.
> 
> Let's talk about a reduced bag limit and reduced party size on our managed areas. I suggest a 3 mallard/4 bird limit and a party size maximum of 3. I hypothesize that reducing the bag limit and party size would reduce the daily pressure on the zones within our managed areas and ultimately improve the quality of our hunting there.
> 
> Flame away!


firm believer. 4 man party, hammering birds morning and night with no rest period, 24 bird bag limit (+12 geese) for a group,...these are all long term issues with managed areas. The fact that everything done at the managed unit is gauged by "hunter trips" is the whole flaw. A hard decision cannot be made to increase quality of hunt because getting max "hunter trips" does not equal hunt quality. Also reverting a rule is like pulling teeth...we all know what happens when you try to take something away from a hunter. its kicking and screaming how it affects them right now! versus whats best for long term survival of area or quality of hunting for area.

i had a discussion with my dad tonight over dinner. so many changes over the years were such deal breakers in the long run but very satisfying in the short run. hunting am and pm was not the original intension of the GMA's. it was morning hunt, rest evening. They became so popular, ways were invented to get more people "on them"....hence u got evening hunting....then increased party size to get the area at max capacity. these were all short term very successful but overall...detrimental to overall experience in the long run. now these places hold tons and tons of birds...but in the refuge. lol. invisable walls surround those refuges whereas the birds have been trained by the constant barrage if they leave it.

these effects also created the desperate hunter who gets few chances so he skybusts out of boredom or sheer surprise he has birds close enough to have a "chance". lol. many side effects of long term choices we have made.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

hammerdown said:


> there is not a pressure problem with the late goose 5 bird limit there is a lazy hunter problem now we have to work just as hard for three when it was five and late season geese are dumb ass rocks in the snow so why drop it to accommodate the average joe who only goes a few times a year and puts forth hardly any effort the state of Michigan wonders why waterfowler number drop and drop our duck season is to early there are harldy any flight birds down if they were down i would not be in Manitoba slaying them the last week of October like i allways due they have not even left 97% of the time till after Halloween...
> 
> just a opinion food for thought!!!


you are actually misguided in your thinking and let me explain.

10% of the hunters kill 90% of the ducks. you are probably one of the 10%. That does not equate the rules should be catered to you because you try harder. so lets start there.

your 10% is that exactly that, 10% of the funding. so exactly opposite of your thinking is true, those tennis shoe hunters fund 90% of the budget so they DO have more say than you. Just because you try harder doesn't mean rules should be changed to meet your needs. It actually means that you should have an easier time hunting when its not ideal...and actually shouldn't have too much to complain about.

1000 tennis shoe hunter going out once or twice is more productive (as far as the state is concerned) than 10 hunters going 30 times.


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## mintgreenwalleyemachine (Jan 18, 2005)

like


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## Tron322 (Oct 29, 2011)

I just want one question when you apply for a license.

"Did you duck hunt before DUCK DYNASTY?"

No restrictions just curious. I started hunting in 2005 and I think the number of lazy slob hunters that show up 50 yards from you a month after the opener is unreal...along with other things.

Just be a fun stat to know, I keep my deer hunting stuff in the truck for when a slob ruins my hunt.

The season doesn't bother me, I will try to find one morning to hunt.


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## Jimw (Jul 8, 2009)

Tron322 said:


> I just want one question when you apply for a license.
> 
> "Did you duck hunt before DUCK DYNASTY?"
> 
> ...


I quit after duck dynasty got big, I couldn't stand the thought of being associated with that group.


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

Blaming a television program for a perceived increase in popularity of waterfowl hunting is probably misguided. 

We ought to be doing everything that we can to welcome and mentor new hunters.


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## population control (Apr 18, 2009)

John Singer said:


> Blaming a television program for a perceived increase in popularity of waterfowl hunting is probably misguided.
> 
> We ought to be doing everything that we can to welcome and mentor new hunters.


Do we need more youth on the waterfowl scene? Yes 
We need kids that have respect for their elders and respect the waterfowl they hunt.
Finding those kids is tough anymore. 
There are so many kids out there that just worry about a number for the year. I hear, We killed 500 this year. 19 of us got 95 one day. You only killed 27 for the season. Yep and I ate them too, you little ****. I didn't toss them in the ditch on the way home, cause dad's freezer is already full.


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## Duckman Racing (Oct 11, 2004)

hammerdown said:


> we lost 5 birds a day late season that is absolutely bull **** no more blood baths in the snow now it will be 3 flocks and done (((((


You live on the southern end of the state, so of course you have more birds later in the year. I live on the northern edge of Zone 3; late season here is a waste of time most years. However we have plenty of birds from Mid-September thru November. I am very happy with these changes.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> firm believer. 4 man party, hammering birds morning and night with no rest period, 24 bird bag limit (+12 geese) for a group,...these are all long term issues with managed areas. The fact that everything done at the managed unit is gauged by "hunter trips" is the whole flaw. A hard decision cannot be made to increase quality of hunt because getting max "hunter trips" does not equal hunt quality. Also reverting a rule is like pulling teeth...we all know what happens when you try to take something away from a hunter. its kicking and screaming how it affects them right now! versus whats best for long term survival of area or quality of hunting for area.
> 
> i had a discussion with my dad tonight over dinner. so many changes over the years were such deal breakers in the long run but very satisfying in the short run. hunting am and pm was not the original intension of the GMA's. it was morning hunt, rest evening. They became so popular, ways were invented to get more people "on them"....hence u got evening hunting....then increased party size to get the area at max capacity. these were all short term very successful but overall...detrimental to overall experience in the long run. now these places hold tons and tons of birds...but in the refuge. lol. invisable walls surround those refuges whereas the birds have been trained by the constant barrage if they leave it.
> 
> these effects also created the desperate hunter who gets few chances so he skybusts out of boredom or sheer surprise he has birds close enough to have a "chance". lol. many side effects of long term choices we have made.


true dat! We could go on and on about this (and I'm sure this thread will), but the "community" of waterfowl hunters as a whole are very short-sighted, and would never agree to further limit themselves, for example, to limit managed areas to AM hunts only. Way too many people out there who only care about numbers, not quality. 

Dealing with this issue right now with a local SGA that created a refuge several years ago, with a long-term goal of increasing waterfowl usage. It's working...more birds are being attracted to the area, and staying throughout the season. But many who historically hunted this area are not happy, and are making noise about it to the DNR...again, short-sighted thinking. 

I've seen it time and time again, and it's not just waterfowl hunters. It's deer hunters, fisherman, yada, yada. Human nature is to want to have more, more more.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

John Singer said:


> Blaming a television program for a perceived increase in popularity of waterfowl hunting is probably misguided.
> 
> We ought to be doing everything that we can to welcome and mentor new hunters.


I'll respectfully disagree with you on this subject. Not just about "Duck Dynasty", but about outdoor tv shows in general. I've seen it grow from the 70's and 80's when there were only a handful of hunting and fishing shows on Saturday morning ESPN, to where we are today with entire channels dedicated to outdoor shows. Rarely do you see a show today that depicts hunting or fishing reality...what I mean is 99% don't show a poor hunt, or a poor fishing trip. It's all about limits, huge deer, tons of fish, etc. Why? Because today's consumer demands that...they want more, more, more. I'm old enough to go back to the day of the old Michigan Outdoors TV show hosted by Fred Trost, and although I didn't always agree with Fred, he was very honest and often showed a hunt that he was skunked on. Or some of the early ESPN hosts, that didn't always catch their limit of fish. THAT was true REALITY TV, not today's shows where the hosts always get a limit of whatever they're after.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> you are actually misguided in your thinking and let me explain.
> 
> 10% of the hunters kill 90% of the ducks. you are probably one of the 10%. That does not equate the rules should be catered to you because you try harder. so lets start there.
> 
> ...


Yep! Today's DNR is much more interested in hunter numbers and participation, than in quality of the hunt. And my personal opinion is this is directly tied to budgets, and how today's programs are funded. Today's DNR budget is all about "user fees", and the budget is almost entirely dependent on the number of people utilizing the resource, vs 40 or 50 years ago, where the DNR budgets were almost entirely composed of general funds (i.e. tax revenues). So I don't blame the DNR, but I also don't see them reducing the ability to participate (i.e. limiting managed areas to half a day hunting).


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## hammerdown (Sep 28, 2011)

Duckman Racing said:


> You live on the southern end of the state, so of course you have more birds later in the year. I live on the northern edge of Zone 3; late season here is a waste of time most years. However we have plenty of birds from Mid-September thru November. I am very happy with these changes.


my problem is with 5 birds a day


just ducky said:


> Yep! Today's DNR is much more interested in hunter numbers and participation, than in quality of the hunt. And my personal opinion is this is directly tied to budgets, and how today's programs are funded. Today's DNR budget is all about "user fees", and the budget is almost entirely dependent on the number of people utilizing the resource, vs 40 or 50 years ago, where the DNR budgets were almost entirely composed of general funds (i.e. tax revenues). So I don't blame the DNR, but I also don't see them reducing the ability to participate (i.e. limiting managed areas to half a day hunting).


but does the dnr understand that hunter success is the main priority for most young new hunters how many kids will say well its fun to get out i bet about 0 they will keep more hunters if they are sucess full ive taken so many kids and young adults out to kill there first bird and lots will say i all most gave up. it take a tone of time and money to waterfowl hunt the right way and most people are not gonna take a stranger to there hunny hole so why not maximize the number and time of year when birds in the south zone are most plentiful


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## Wallis (Nov 10, 2015)

I'll echo Mr. Singer, in the fact that we all can point fingers at shows or DNR or other "detrimental" excuses of the down shift in quality hunts. I think we need to look in the mirror and say, what am I doing to help right the ship. I started duck hunting because of family. The fact that I got to sit in a pit or stand under a cypress listening to my uncle and papaw tell stories is what I loved about the sport. I feel like it is our responsibility to pass that aspect of waterfowling on. It's not the kids fault they envision duck hunting as a time to kill vs a time to grow and learn. It is what they see and we are to agitated or lazy to try to mentor them. Why is a child disrespectful? Because they weren't taught respect. At 35 I'm what some would look at as young, but I was fortunate enough to have my hide tanned enough growing up that I respect people and the outdoors. It is tragic that youth these days aren't as lucky to have morals taught to them. 
My question is how are we helping this situation? Are we cussing at the kids in the duck dynasty swag for calling too often too loud and shooting to early, or are we asking them to join our party? I'd always rather hunt with someone then against them. I'm as guilty as the next guy/gal for not inviting more new comers out. In MI I hunt 70% of the time solo, because most of my buddies are fare weather hunters, and I'm to lazy to try to find folks that could use a few lessons on "hunting like a gentleman" as my papaw put it. 
I'm not saying this is a quick fix, but if we would gripe a little less and help a little more things can be fixed. To teach respect you have to show respect. I think that will go further than anything.
As far as the tennis shoe hunters, I couldn't agree more! Yes it is annoying at times but as stated that's where the majority of our funding comes from. They are like added money, yeah they may educate a few birds, but in the long run I feel like the juice is worth the squeeze. 

Now these are just my opinions and I know everyone has one. I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying in my little southern brain this is what makes sense to me.


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## Michigan Muck Hunter (Sep 14, 2015)

Tennis Shoes Hunters? How many trips are they putting in? Are they in a line at a SGA when the wing is howling blowing in a massive cold front along with the 60-80 other parties? Doubtful right? It is the ones who live for the days like that. Show me true statistics, give me numbers that shows the line between bluebird Hunters and Cold Front ones. SGA'S aside as I battle for permission year in and year out to keep fields and potholes. Show me a number.


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## Michigan Muck Hunter (Sep 14, 2015)

The tennis shoes Hunters buy a license. What do they give back to the resource. Add the miles put in and everything we put into it. Show me the money.


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

Tron322 said:


> I just want one question when you apply for a license.
> 
> "Did you duck hunt before DUCK DYNASTY?"
> 
> ...


Your question made me laugh out loud. I retired from duck hunting the year you got started, after hunting ducks for 28 years. I came back to the sport last fall, guess I missed the cold weather, poor calling and sky busting at the managed areas...After ten years off I look at it different, its about quality not quantity. I only took shots at birds that committed to land. I'm not opposed to pass shooting, I'm just too damn old to chase a crippled mallard around a flooded corn field.


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

just ducky said:


> I'll respectfully disagree with you on this subject. Not just about "Duck Dynasty", but about outdoor tv shows in general. I've seen it grow from the 70's and 80's when there were only a handful of hunting and fishing shows on Saturday morning ESPN, to where we are today with entire channels dedicated to outdoor shows. Rarely do you see a show today that depicts hunting or fishing reality...what I mean is 99% don't show a poor hunt, or a poor fishing trip. It's all about limits, huge deer, tons of fish, etc. Why? Because today's consumer demands that...they want more, more, more. I'm old enough to go back to the day of the old Michigan Outdoors TV show hosted by Fred Trost, and although I didn't always agree with Fred, he was very honest and often showed a hunt that he was skunked on. Or some of the early ESPN hosts, that didn't always catch their limit of fish. THAT was true REALITY TV, not today's shows where the hosts always get a limit of whatever they're after.


just ducky,

The present day outdoor shows that you describe are likely a result of the "Instant Gratification/Instant Success/Everybody deserves a trophy Self-esteem" culture that our society has developed. I recall the old Fred Trost episodes of Michigan Outdoors. Actually, I grew up with the American Sportsman TV program hosted by Curt Gowdy. You are correct, they did not always limit out sometimes they did not even take game. 

It seems that many children now would rather play a video game than go hunting or fishing.

A couple of years ago, a friend and I had taken a group of kids out during the youth waterfowl hunt. We saw some birds and a couple of the kids did shoot a duck or two. After the hunt, my friend and I were talking about how these kids had grown up with video games that provide them with the illusion of instant success. We were talking about what a realistic hunting game would be like and I told him that a realistic deer hunting game would require the gamer to stare at a screen with a forest scene for several hours at a time. He may or may not see an animal and if he was not paying attention he may not get the opportunity to shoot. My friend then stated: "After the hunt, the game would shut itself off and you could not turn it back on for at least 9 months."


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

Michigan Muck Hunter said:


> Tennis Shoes Hunters? How many trips are they putting in? Are they in a line at a SGA when the wing is howling blowing in a massive cold front along with the 60-80 other parties? Doubtful right? It is the ones who live for the days like that. Show me true statistics, give me numbers that shows the line between bluebird Hunters and Cold Front ones. SGA'S aside as I battle for permission year in and year out to keep fields and potholes. Show me a number.


People on this site toss around the term derogatory term: "Tennis Shoe Hunter" quite often in these discussions. You ask for a number. 

Check out this site: http://www.realtree.com/waterfowl-hunting/duck-hunting-nation/2015/michigan-duck-hunting

According to that link, there are just over 40,000 waterfowl hunters in the State of Michigan. I would bet that the participation rate among those 40K is pretty high early in the season. It seems like each and everyone of them is duck hunting on opening day, does it not? 

Late in the season, when I have to bust ice to get to and from my hunting locations, I rarely see much in the way of competition.

Now, do a little thought experiment. This is Michigan. What do you think that the participation rate is after November 15? I would be willing to bet that the participation rate is closer to 20% than it is to 50% after November 15. Does that mean that 50% to 80% or more of the waterfowl hunters in Michigan are Tennis Shoe Hunters?

BTW: I would also be willing to bet that more waterfowl, during fall migration, are present or pass through this state before November 15 than after November 15. This site here will help you to either confirm or deny that claim: http://wpbo.org/

Also, my father is dead now. The last time that I took him duck hunting, he was 80 years old. I did not take him out hunting when we had to bust ice and he risked frostbitten hands. 

I hope to live long enough to be a Tennis Shoe Hunter someday. I hope that all of us do.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Michigan Muck Hunter said:


> The tennis shoes Hunters buy a license. What do they give back to the resource. Add the miles put in and everything we put into it. Show me the money.


yer kidding right? i mean its pretty easy to show you stats of participation and numbers. matter fact you can find them pretty easy with google since most sga's share their season reports to the public.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

and again, just because you tough it out and are a die hard hunter doesn't make you get a greater say when the season dates are. EVERY refuge in the state discloses migration numbers...now if you take z3 refuges and average out the dates of heavy migration and find the common center point (1 day) of heaviest migration. then go 30 days in each direction. you will find our start and end dates that we currently have.

now if you factor in mother nature and her cruel jokes she throws at us about every other year. ...early freeze, late freeze is a giant variable. making dates off of a (insert any random) years great weather phenomenon is ridiculous.

next?


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## Michigan Muck Hunter (Sep 14, 2015)

Broken Record around here. I fell victim to the political warfare in waterfowl. I try to keep my nose clean through here but it is time for a change. There is more to waterfowl in Michigan other than Shiawassee. Split it up! Other states split it up. Let us hunt the migration. What very little comes through Michigan. Let it freeze. There are other options. I have kids, I take them out on tennis shoe days and I love that but end it and start it again. You want your money to keep investing into the SGA's. Cool. But they are mismanaged. They do a great job at maintaining them but getting a few ducks into your lap is nearly a joke.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Michigan Muck Hunter said:


> Broken Record around here. I fell victim to the political warfare in waterfowl. I try to keep my nose clean through here but it is time for a change. There is more to waterfowl in Michigan other than Shiawassee. Split it up! Other states split it up. Let us hunt the migration. What very little comes through Michigan. Let it freeze. There are other options. I have kids, I take them out on tennis shoe days and I love that but end it and start it again. You want your money to keep investing into the SGA's. Cool. But they are mismanaged. They do a great job at maintaining them but getting a few ducks into your lap is nearly a joke.


lol. its not about me or shiawassee muck. actually shiawassee has nothing do with it. i'm trying to point that out but i don't think your reading and processing what i'm sayin.

and to be honest. srsga was ok with being moved into z2 if meant z3 getting later season. many other factors at play here, your oversimplifying it. sayin they are mismanaged...would love to hear your thoughts on that...lets be specific.


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## hammerdown (Sep 28, 2011)

Michigan Muck Hunter said:


> Broken Record around here. I fell victim to the political warfare in waterfowl. I try to keep my nose clean through here but it is time for a change. There is more to waterfowl in Michigan other than Shiawassee. Split it up! Other states split it up. Let us hunt the migration. What very little comes through Michigan. Let it freeze. There are other options. I have kids, I take them out on tennis shoe days and I love that but end it and start it again. You want your money to keep investing into the SGA's. Cool. But they are mismanaged. They do a great job at maintaining them but getting a few ducks into your lap is nearly a joke.


100 percent agree and the management area would do better if they pushed the season back the mi dnr proves this look at fennville farm unit bird count for the last 5 years more ducks were at the farm after the season closed December has had more ducks on the refuge the last five years than all the other months combined. easy decision ducks dont get here till later in the year and i know of 0 kids or people who were unhappy that they got a limit this mind set of well we got out it was a good hunt is a joke and thats why hunter recruitment is so bad here in Michigan.


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## waterfowlhunter83 (Aug 10, 2005)

hammerdown said:


> 100 percent agree and the management area would do better if they pushed the season back the mi dnr proves this look at fennville farm unit bird count for the last 5 years more ducks were at the farm after the season closed December has had more ducks on the refuge the last five years than all the other months combined. easy decision ducks dont get here till later in the year and i know of 0 kids or people who were unhappy that they got a limit this mind set of well we got out it was a good hunt is a joke and thats why hunter recruitment is so bad here in Michigan.


Fennville is a unique managed area as there is open water there no matter how cold it gets and there is more food for birds than they can eat. The bird numbers there are not indicative of a later migration but a result of the birds getting congregated to an area where they have the things they need to survive. So your assumption is probably not that accurate.


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## Tavor (Sep 10, 2011)

just ducky said:


> I'm old enough to go back to the day of the old Michigan Outdoors TV show hosted by Fred Trost, and although I didn't always agree with Fred, he was very honest and often showed a hunt that he was skunked on.


This comment made me grin. I, too, grew up watching Michigan Out of Doors ... _hosted by_ _Mort Neff_. I haven't watched much outdoor TV in decades, but I still think of Fred Trost as "the new guy".
For the life of me, I can't understand all the griping about seasons and limits. These are the good old days. Am I the only one who remembers 30 day seasons and three bird limits? I hunted on Lake St. Clair for a few years before I was legally allowed to shoot a single redhead, and it was a _lot_ of years before I could shoot a canvasback. One hen mallard. And so on. These last few years have been heavenly. Last year my son and I shot more ducks than ever before, and 100 percent of our hunting was on public waters. Sure, there were still some ducks on the lake after the season. So what? Are we supposed to kill every one of them? I have not hunted a managed area since the '80's, so I can't comment on hunter behavior there, but I sure haven't noticed any difference in hunter behavior out where we hunt. In fact, the biggest change I have seen has nothing to do with hunters; its the late-season fishermen and pleasure boaters that have increased tenfold from the old days.


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## wavie (Feb 2, 2004)

hammerdown said:


> are season sorry for typo


Your worried about a typo?

Punctuation can be your friend!


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## hammerdown (Sep 28, 2011)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> and hence the limits. DNR has a target flock size for resident and non-resident. lot more goes into deciding these things than a hunter saying "i can slaughter so easy in late season and this is bulls***". They also have to keep federal framework in mind while trying to make EVERYONE happy. This also includes managing the SJB geese which is another touchy topic.


michigans residents a far above the target area and the frame work leave it up to the states to handle resident geese


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## hammerdown (Sep 28, 2011)

frame work is left up to the states to handle the resident population


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## waterfowlhunter83 (Aug 10, 2005)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> and hence the limits. DNR has a target flock size for resident and non-resident. lot more goes into deciding these things than a hunter saying "i can slaughter so easy in late season and this is bulls***". They also have to keep federal framework in mind while trying to make EVERYONE happy. This also includes managing the SJB geese which is another touchy topic.


Winner, winner, chicken dinner!


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## wavie (Feb 2, 2004)

hammerdown said:


> not a chance late season when it snow you can do jumping jacks and pile them up its a slaughter


Not a chance in comparison to what? September molt migrants n young of the year who will circle endlessly until you run out of shells? If you're not excited about the new seasons, the DNR caters to the majority.

Yeah, you can pile them up either way, mosquitos and heat or when its snowing. Again, where do you think most participation will be? More specifically what does the science dictate on achieving goals.

Will you stop hunting late season at 3/day? I hope not.


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## waterfowlhunter83 (Aug 10, 2005)

hammerdown said:


> michigans residents a far above the target area and the frame work leave it up to the states to handle resident geese


There are more opportunities and higher participation in the early season to control the resident population than the late season.


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## hammerdown (Sep 28, 2011)

last year the population was 328000 resident giants the target are for Michigan is 225000 so the numbers are there to let us hunter capitalize on them info on mi dnr natural resource commission march 10, 2016. we need to keep numbers down to keep the clues and removal of geese down yes the af (avian flew) did not help this and that is out of our control but give us the numbers to bring these local populations down


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

hammerdown said:


> last year the population was 328000 resident giants the target are for Michigan is 225000 so the numbers are there to let us hunter capitalize on them info on mi dnr natural resource commission march 10, 2016. we need to keep numbers down to keep the clues and removal of geese down yes the af (avian flew) did not help this and that is out of our control but give us the numbers to bring these local populations down


I remember my first beer.

I am not trying to be offensive here. It is really difficult to fully comprehend your arguments. Please help us out with some punctuation.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

, ;


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> , ;


I finally got your joke. 

There is also something important about the use of proper punctuation when helping your uncle off a horse. 

Be very careful how you word that if his name happens to be Jack.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Tavor said:


> This comment made me grin. I, too, grew up watching Michigan Out of Doors ... _hosted by_ _Mort Neff_. I haven't watched much outdoor TV in decades, but I still think of Fred Trost as "the new guy".
> For the life of me, I can't understand all the griping about seasons and limits. These are the good old days. Am I the only one who remembers 30 day seasons and three bird limits? I hunted on Lake St. Clair for a few years before I was legally allowed to shoot a single redhead, and it was a _lot_ of years before I could shoot a canvasback. One hen mallard. And so on. These last few years have been heavenly. Last year my son and I shot more ducks than ever before, and 100 percent of our hunting was on public waters. Sure, there were still some ducks on the lake after the season. So what? Are we supposed to kill every one of them? I have not hunted a managed area since the '80's, so I can't comment on hunter behavior there, but I sure haven't noticed any difference in hunter behavior out where we hunt. In fact, the biggest change I have seen has nothing to do with hunters; its the late-season fishermen and pleasure boaters that have increased tenfold from the old days.


Mort was THE REAL DEAL!!! PERIOD! I too still think of Fred as the "new guy". Or Jerry Chiapetta LOL. And I wholeheartedly agree that things are better today...this is "the good old days"


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

oh wow! No disrespect intended to anyone here, but obviously some of you have not been on this board as long as some of us have. this argument about moving the bay into a different zone is older than I am LOL. All you need to do is search this board from the past decade and you'll have hours and hours of reading. I'm glad Shi Kid is back in the discussion, because he's been through it all like I have. And no, this is not a "Shiawassee" argument. Connect the dots roughly from Tawas, to Gladwin, to Midland, to Flint, to Mt. Clemens, and you now have the area of concern for a vast majority of Michigan's waterfowlers (at least by total hunter hours in the field). Like it or not (and some of you don't) this is the area that gets the most usage, and therefore this is the "tail that wags the dog" in Michigan. And even within those boundaries there is much disagreement (for example the Linwood to Standish contingent doesn't usually agree with the Fish Pt. to Bayport contingent). So I'm staying out of this discussion because it's been discussed so many times I can't bear to go back through it all.


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## michiganoutdoorsman (Dec 29, 2010)

Boy, nothing is making MC hammer up there happy. 3 birds per day during the late season is still a pretty good day. 3-5 guys with 9-15 birds isn't bad at all. I like these dates and the new limits!


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Michigan Muck Hunter said:


> The tennis shoes Hunters buy a license. What do they give back to the resource. Add the miles put in and everything we put into it. Show me the money.


i'm not sure what your getting at, i thought i was pretty clear above. managed areas may not be the best place to hunt....but they do give the state great data as far as traffic and use statistics along with great waterfowl numbers of the migration.

if you think the hardcore hunters do more for the resource or "give back"....that may be true, but you wouldn't have any public areas to put time into without the "tennis shoe" hunter.


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## Handliner84 (Jan 26, 2014)

No matter how many people are hunting , dates allow to waterfowl, or the ethics of other hunters or years hunting hasn't changed the way I hunt on bit. I have gone against the grain for many years and when I have people set right up on top of me or sky busting birds coming my way. Guess what I move and try new locations, maybe ones I have been watching or just take a shot in the dark. And some of them days have been some of my best hunts of a lifetime. That being said my favor thing about hunting is not the shooting the birds, its getting them to work just the way I want them to with my decoys, boat placement, layout placement, calling and locations. I have been know to setup a spread and call bird in to land and never uncase my gun. All that being said I hunt zone 3 on public water all season and have never had many problems.


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## Michigan Muck Hunter (Sep 14, 2015)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> i'm not sure what your getting at, i thought i was pretty clear above. managed areas may not be the best place to hunt....but they do give the state great data as far as traffic and use statistics along with great waterfowl numbers of the migration.
> 
> if you think the hardcore hunters do more for the resource or "give back"....that may be true, but you wouldn't have any public areas to put time into without the "tennis shoe" hunter.


Gas, food, lodging, etc. Conservation efforts, benefits, memberships that all pour back into the local economies and wetlands. I know myself and many others give back or go back time and time again to wildlife and the SGA's. We have a voice too, we have the right to share it. Split it up make the best of both worlds for everyone. 

Not one person here come to answer my initial question of where can I go to voice my opinion start a petition perhaps. I appreciate what I have and what is given to me in a season but we have seen change before and it wouldn't hurt to consider other options. Consider....


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## wavie (Feb 2, 2004)

MMH
I would think you could voice your opinionto your CWAC rrepresentative. Attend a CWAC meeting perhaps.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Michigan Muck Hunter said:


> Gas, food, lodging, etc. Conservation efforts, benefits, memberships that all pour back into the local economies and wetlands. I know myself and many others give back or go back time and time again to wildlife and the SGA's. We have a voice too, we have the right to share it. Split it up make the best of both worlds for everyone.
> 
> Not one person here come to answer my initial question of where can I go to voice my opinion start a petition perhaps. I appreciate what I have and what is given to me in a season but we have seen change before and it wouldn't hurt to consider other options. Consider....


yup, talk to your cwac rep. 

i'm not sure how gas, food and lodging has anything to do with what your saying but i get you want to put your input in. theres a cwac list on dnr page, find out who is cwac for your area and have a chat.


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## jwinks (Mar 20, 2014)

I, for one, hope they change the dates, because the complaining about season dates is the only thing that keeps this forum alive in the spring.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

jwinks said:


> I, for one, hope they change the dates, because the complaining about season dates is the only thing that keeps this forum alive in the spring.


LOL! Was waiting for someone to say they missed "the good ol' days" on this forum...


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

jwinks said:


> I, for one, hope they change the dates, because the complaining about season dates is the only thing that keeps this forum alive in the spring.


i have 18 posts i need to make. need threads like these to hit "the" benchmark!


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## steelfish365 (May 6, 2016)

just ducky said:


> Yep! Today's DNR is much more interested in hunter numbers and participation, than in quality of the hunt. And my personal opinion is this is directly tied to budgets, and how today's programs are funded. Today's DNR budget is all about "user fees", and the budget is almost entirely dependent on the number of people utilizing the resource, vs 40 or 50 years ago, where the DNR budgets were almost entirely composed of general funds (i.e. tax revenues). So I don't blame the DNR, but I also don't see them reducing the ability to participate (i.e. limiting managed areas to half a day hunting).



Right about what the DNR is interested in. Wrong about why. Many surveys have been done through mail and managed area over the counter surveys. ALL show strong support from the hunters for opportunity vs. quality. Every time. Yes the budgets come from hunter license dollars but in order to get the most people to buy licenses, you appeal to the majority.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

steelfish365 said:


> Right about what the DNR is interested in. Wrong about why. Many surveys have been done through mail and managed area over the counter surveys. ALL show strong support from the hunters for opportunity vs. quality. Every time. Yes the budgets come from hunter license dollars but in order to get the most people to buy licenses, you appeal to the majority.


Not sure I understand your response? Are you saying the "majority" of people who hunt waterfowl want quality more than opportunity? I'm not talking those who hunt a lot...I'm talking about the "majority". The data from the DNR shows there are many more "fair-weather", or some would call "tennis shoe" hunters than there are those who hunt a lot, and I said that the DNR of today must be more concerned about dollars due to shifts in the way their budget is allocated, and that means getting as many people to participate as possible. What are you saying?


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## Lurker (Jan 25, 2009)

John Singer said:


> Shiawassee Kid, do you want to fire up the boards? How about a discussion on a topic that you brought up a while back? You came up with an idea that I would entertain and support. You had suggested that the quality of hunting on our managed areas was better back when we had a 3 bird limit and smaller party size.
> 
> Let's talk about a reduced bag limit and reduced party size on our managed areas. I suggest a 3 mallard/4 bird limit and a party size maximum of 3. I hypothesize that reducing the bag limit and party size would reduce the daily pressure on the zones within our managed areas and ultimately improve the quality of our hunting there.
> 
> Flame away!


pretty certain my buddy and his 3 sons wouldn't like the party size reduction.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Lurker said:


> pretty certain my buddy and his 3 sons wouldn't like the party size reduction.


neither would 90% of the other hunters.

once hunters get something, taking away is twice the pain....no matter how good it would benefit the area.


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## Lurker (Jan 25, 2009)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> neither would 90% of the other hunters.
> 
> once hunters get something, taking away is twice the pain....no matter how good it would benefit the area.


wondering..... wouldn't it just lead to more smaller groups competing for the same space?


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

I love hunting in my tennis shoes when I can


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Lurker said:


> wondering..... wouldn't it just lead to more smaller groups competing for the same space?


maybe. was like that for 40 years tho until it was changed. and i would also argue that participation has went down, not up since.


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## steelfish365 (May 6, 2016)

just ducky said:


> Not sure I understand your response? Are you saying the "majority" of people who hunt waterfowl want quality more than opportunity? I'm not talking those who hunt a lot...I'm talking about the "majority". The data from the DNR shows there are many more "fair-weather", or some would call "tennis shoe" hunters than there are those who hunt a lot, and I said that the DNR of today must be more concerned about dollars due to shifts in the way their budget is allocated, and that means getting as many people to participate as possible. What are you saying?


Nope just the opposite. The "majority" has expressed that they want more opportunity and will sacrifice quality. Sorry if i made that sound confusing.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

I'm truly sorry I missed the annual "Season Date Debate" - I too, long for the days of mudslinging and veiled insults.

Alas, we have gone to a system of setting season dates for 3 year periods and that renewal period was January 2016...so unless something changes at the Fed level - these are your opening weekends for 16/17/18.


PS - For those rallying for a change in Zone boundaries? We are allowed to propose changes to the Fed's once every 5 years. Wanna guess when that date was?? It rhymes with Manuary twenty hixteen.


See ya'll in 2021 - Stay Frosty


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

KLR said:


> It rhymes with Manuary twenty hixteen.
> See ya'll in 2021 - Stay Frosty


lol. thats Mantastic!


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

I just got back from moving my daughter and son-in-law to Rochester, MN. My daughter recently graduated from medical school and starts her residency at Mayo Clinic later this month.

While there, I picked up a copy of the Minnesota 2015 waterfowl regulations. Check it out:

North Zone: Sept. 26-Nov. 24
Central Zone: Sept. 26-Oct. 4; Oct. 10-Nov. 29
South Zone: Sept. 26-Oct. 4; Oct. 15-Dec. 4

Like Michigan, MInnesota has three zones (north to south). They start all three zones on the same date. I assume that they do this to keep people from a closed zone from crowding into limited habitat in another zone like happens with staggered opening dates. Two of the zones have splits to allow for later closing dates.

Some version of this may be a viable option for Michigan. Having a common opening date would definitely spread out the pressure and varying the length of a season split would allow for late season hunting in the southern part of the state. 

I also understand the loss of 3 opening days and loss of the 2-day split in late December/early January.


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## hammerdown (Sep 28, 2011)

John Singer said:


> I just got back from moving my daughter and son-in-law to Rochester, MN. My daughter recently graduated from medical school and starts her residency at Mayo Clinic later this month.
> 
> While there, I picked up a copy of the Minnesota 2015 waterfowl regulations. Check it out:
> 
> ...


lets do it. let the tennis shoe hunters have there early hunt. then close down for weeks while they go swing in a tree then reopen the south zone later so we can hunt when the big ducks actually get here.


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## Michigan Muck Hunter (Sep 14, 2015)

hammerdown said:


> lets do it. let the tennis shoe hunters have there early hunt. then close down for weeks while they go swing in a tree then reopen the south zone later so we can hunt when the big ducks actually get here.


This is what I was proposing all along. We all a get a fair shot at some birds.


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## Tavor (Sep 10, 2011)

I like Michigan's season the way it is now.


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

Tavor said:


> I like Michigan's season the way it is now.


I really do too. I am looking forward to this upcoming season and I think the dates should be great.


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## hammerdown (Sep 28, 2011)

Tavor said:


> I like Michigan's season the way it is now.


we need a dislike button!!


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

hammerdown said:


> we need a dislike button!!


Did you hunt in the 70's with a 9am start time opening day, a 30 day season, and point system?


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

Spartan88 said:


> Did you hunt in the 70's with a 9am start time opening day, a 30 day season, and point system?


A lot has changed since the 70's and just like it has improved from then, there's still room for improvement now and in the future.


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## jwinks (Mar 20, 2014)

Spartan88 said:


> Did you hunt in the 70's with a 9am start time opening day, a 30 day season, and point system?


Why was the start time 9am? Was that just opening day?


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

Michigan Muck Hunter said:


> I'm not saying I do not get a fair shot at birds at all. But there is room for improvement. I spend more days scouting than hunting across Zone 3, I see a lot but I see a lot more in December.


I agree with this statement, reason being until December you're most likely chasing around the same group of birds or driving to another county hoping to find another pocket.


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

hammerdown said:


> no i did not but i have hunted Ontario, Manitoba,Saskatchewan,Alberta,north Dakota,Arkansan,Indianan and Missouri and they all have better season dates than we do


I have to say, it would be nice to stop the season for the MI pre rut seeking phase, that's what would happen if I were king...


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

SBE II said:


> Nothing will ever change that except for a drastically reducing the shell limit to about 6, and then on slow days you'll still get the occassional sky buster.


NP used to have a 15 shell limit I think...


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## hammerdown (Sep 28, 2011)

Michigan muck hunter is 100 percent right


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## wavie (Feb 2, 2004)

hammerdown said:


> no i did not but i have hunted Ontario, Manitoba,Saskatchewan,Alberta,north Dakota,Arkansan,Indianan and Missouri and they all have better season dates than we do


What makes the Canadian provinces seasons so much better than ours? 

Ontario has 3 openers, just like MI. Yes the southern zone does go later than MI. But the northern and middle zone are comparable to MI. I can hunt the northern zone and there is still open water after the season closes, regardless of how cold it gets. Plenty of ducks around too. Its an easy travel to Ontario so those that want to take advantage of their seasons can. 

Not sure why you think the western provinces have such better dates as they all start/end at roughtly the same time. A much higher probability you'll get frozen out in those provinces before the season ends. Sucks when your season ends mid Oct. And yes, i too have lived/hunted in the provinces you mentioned. Your in waterfowl nirvana out west and would never try to compare the PPR to MI.

At this point in my life the one huge difference between waterfowling in the US and Canada is the amount of pressure, IMO. You work hard in MI and you can have some phenomenal hunts. I get selfish out west when i hear others hunting. 

I'm going to guess that your admiration of the queen and social medicine has more to do with limits rather than season dates. 

MI has some exceptional diverse waterfowling. I feel we currently have it very good during these times of plenty.


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## hammerdown (Sep 28, 2011)

wavie said:


> What makes the Canadian provinces seasons so much better than ours?
> 
> Ontario has 3 openers, just like MI. Yes the southern zone does go later than MI. But the northern and middle zone are comparable to MI. I can hunt the northern zone and there is still open water after the season closes, regardless of how cold it gets. Plenty of ducks around too. Its an easy travel to Ontario so those that want to take advantage of their seasons can.
> 
> ...


yes we do have great diver hunting and if you scout hunting in michigan is easy but thats not my point. why is our season not open when the south zone gets the huge push of big ducks mallards pintails ext. witch is in december right before Christmas. but we open so early yes i see the reason to have have a early opener but open it for 2 weeks then shut it down cause there is not **** around and hunting wooducks is about as exciting as being with a fat chick.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

hammerdown said:


> yes we do have great diver hunting and if you scout hunting in michigan is easy but thats not my point. why is our season not open when the south zone gets the huge push of big ducks mallards pintails ext. witch is in december right before Christmas. but we open so early yes i see the reason to have have a early opener but open it for 2 weeks then shut it down cause there is not **** around and hunting wooducks is about as exciting as being with a fat chick.


hrm. my push of BIG numbers is between last week of october and 1st week of november. and i can prove it. i have the stats, the numbers...you know those things that we base our seasons on .

now you prove to me that my south zone numbers are wrong. and don't site 1 refuge in one location of the z3. I have all the numbers that i'm basing it off.

see i don't base my opinion on what i think should happen. I know what i would like and i've stated it here for almost 20 years. You have to take into consideration that YOU are not the only guy in z3....because if you were we could make the season how ever you want it.


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## hammerdown (Sep 28, 2011)

we kill more ducks down here on the 2 day split than most of the year











yes lots of hen dont bash had 3 kids with us but we could do this almost every day in December down down here Indianan gets a week we get 2 days


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## hammerdown (Sep 28, 2011)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> hrm. my push of BIG numbers is between last week of october and 1st week of november. and i can prove it. i have the stats, the numbers...you know those things that we base our seasons on .
> 
> now you prove to me that my south zone numbers are wrong. and don't site 1 refuge in one location of the z3. I have all the numbers that i'm basing it off.
> 
> see i don't base my opinion on what i think should happen. I know what i would like and I've stated it here for almost 20 years. You have to take into consideration that YOU are not the only guy in z3....because if you were we could make the season how ever you want it.


 bull **** look a fennvilles bird count and the ducks don't get here till December. you are saying they are calendar birds do we get some yes but the push is later than the said time i hunt a lot and i would realize it they did. they don't come down till later. i am hunting in Canada then and there more than you can shake a stick so the arrangement is invalid. if i they were here i would not be 39 hours from home beating the hell out of them.


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## jwinks (Mar 20, 2014)

hammerdown said:


> we kill more ducks down here on the 2 day split than most of the year


Since you are talking about Indiana, you must be from SW Michigan. You know that Saginaw bay is in the same zone as you right? You should be arguing for zone boundary changes, not season date changes.


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## hammerdown (Sep 28, 2011)

hammerdown said:


> bull **** look a fennvilles bird count and the ducks don't get here till December. you are saying they are calendar birds do we get some yes but the push is later than the said time i hunt a lot and i would realize it they did. they don't come down till later. i am hunting in Canada then and there more than you can shake a stick so the arrangement is invalid. if i they were here i would not be 39 hours from home beating the hell out of them.



allmost every one down here in the lower 13 countys will agree with me as well look at meskegon waste water as well


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## hammerdown (Sep 28, 2011)

jwinks said:


> Since you are talking about Indiana, you must be from SW Michigan. You know that Saginaw bay is in the same zone as you right? You should be arguing for zone boundary changes, not season date changes.


yes and that will never happen as we all know the only way is to change season dates as shiawisse kid and i have argued this all ready.


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## hammerdown (Sep 28, 2011)

hammerdown said:


> yes and that will never happen as we all know the only way is to change season dates as shiawisse kid and i have argued this all ready.


but yes i agree that would be amazing


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## duckbuster2 (Aug 14, 2008)

hammerdown said:


> we kill more ducks down here on the 2 day split than most of the year
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Then hunt in Indiana,hunting in Michigan the dates are perfect they should stay this way forever.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

hammerdown said:


> allmost every one down here in the lower 13 countys will agree with me as well look at meskegon waste water as well


hammer, you come on the scene here blazing away with your thoughts like its never been said before. anyone whos been a member of this board for 5+ years are shaking their head. Same complaints, same zone, same areas listed as proof....and i'm not arguing that you can't shoot better limits in december, that is the error in your words. Once you see past that part, you will start to understand the REAL argument.

showing limits of birds you shoot on the split will ring on def ears. we all shoot limits on the split (if we hunt it). thats like saying, i walked into a whorehouse and i always get laid...we need more whorehouses. lol.

a majority of michigans waterfowlers do not reside in the counties you listed. the majority of z3 hunters...birds migrate through last week of october and 1st week of november. that is FACT. <-----read that sentence carefully. The only way to change that fact is change who resides in z3. there is one big elephant that needs to be removed from z3 to ever change that fact.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

btw, walleye season opens a week too late here, i used to bang limits of walleyes for 2 weeks...big fat fish. years back they moved that opener in the river to last saturday in april. Guess what? its not as easy anymore. now its harder to bang out limits and the window is way shorter to do so. where do i file my complaint?


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## hammerdown (Sep 28, 2011)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> hammer, you come on the scene here blazing away with your thoughts like its never been said before. anyone whos been a member of this board for 5+ years are shaking their head. Same complaints, same zone, same areas listed as proof....and i'm not arguing that you can't shoot better limits in december, that is the error in your words. Once you see past that part, you will start to understand the REAL argument.
> 
> showing limits of birds you shoot on the split will ring on def ears. we all shoot limits on the split (if we hunt it). thats like saying, i walked into a whorehouse and i always get laid...we need more whorehouses. lol.
> 
> a majority of michigans waterfowlers do not reside in the counties you listed. the majority of z3 hunters...birds migrate through last week of october and 1st week of november. that is FACT. <-----read that sentence carefully. The only way to change that fact is change who resides in z3. there is one big elephant that needs to be removed from z3 to ever change that fact.


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## hammerdown (Sep 28, 2011)

so basically your saying every hunter in the lower 13 county's should go hunt some where else because we are not special enough and theirs not enough of us to make a big enough complaint or impact to change the seasons or zones . Yet our state is broke and they wonder why hunter recruitment is down and a lot of us leave the state to go hunting by that i mean not trips but weekend and week day local hunt.


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## hammerdown (Sep 28, 2011)

duckbuster2 said:


> Then hunt in Indiana,hunting in Michigan the dates are perfect they should stay this way forever.


what part of the state are you from duck buster 2


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

Our state isn't broke. In fact, they are spending money and upgrading, investing in stuff like has never been seen since the 1970's.

I've always enjoyed hunting in Indiana. It's close, and it's cheap. 
I get bored pounding out limits of drake mallards up here.

The Kid's right on all the numbers. 

He has a phenomenal tolerance for whiners.


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