# Timber Sales



## ekulrenlig

I just wanted to suggest to anyone thinking about doing a timber sale on their property in the future to highly consider bidding it out or receiving multiple quotes. We just had a timber sale that received 12 bids. The lowest bid was around $22,000 and the highest was around $64,000. Forest consultants can help set up a timber sale for you and bid it out to prospective buyers.


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## Fabner1

Thanks ekulrenlig, Good advice and very eye opening on the difference in bids.


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## CPO RETIRED

Went thru the same thing last year at this time. Marked the trees, and had them come in and bid apples to apples. Some wanted to high grade my woods and suggest more trees be marked. I stood firm and was amazed at the differences in the bids. Went with a company from near Lansing which had the highest bid and the best customer feedback from other land owners that they did business with. In the end I was extremely happy, minimal collateral damage to remaining standing trees. Be carefull, a few bad apples have given the industry a bad image.


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## hunterrep

Thats an unbelievable spread in bids. What would be the reason for such a big difference. I would think it would be pretty straighforward unless they counted or measured trees wrong.


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## NATTY BUMPO

ekulrenlig said:


> I just wanted to suggest to anyone thinking about doing a timber sale on their property in the future to highly consider bidding it out or receiving multiple quotes. We just had a timber sale that received 12 bids. The lowest bid was around $22,000 and the highest was around $64,000. Forest consultants can help set up a timber sale for you and bid it out to prospective buyers.


2x Excellent advice.

We've done this twice. Its real murky waters you jump into if you try the DIY route, unless you're in the bis already yourself. There are A LOT of horror stories out there re scumbag loggers. A good consulting forester is well worth his fee IMHO.

NB


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## ekulrenlig

hunterrep: There are many reasons that bids can range so much. It depends what products you're selling and what products the buyers are looking for. In this case, we were selling very high quality veener products and a veener buyer had the high bid. Also, it depends on how badly the buyer needs the products. If the mills are empty the prices are generally higher, if the mills are full the prices are generally low. It also depends on how far the buyer is from the timber. Three important things to consider when selling timber are quality, quantity, and access. Try for at least two of these. If you are trying to sell a very small amount of of low quality timber that is very difficult to get to, then good luck.

NATTY: There are a lot of horror stories, but don't get me wrong there are also some very respectable loggers out there too. Forestry consultants will set the jobs up and administer them from start to finish for a fee. I agree, I would rather pay a fee to a consultant from $64,000 instead of only getting $22,000.

The bid example I gave is only from a selective cut on a 10-acre property. Wrap your mind around that one.


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## NATTY BUMPO

ekulrenlig said:


> hunterrep: There are many reasons that bids can range so much. It depends what products you're selling and what products the buyers are looking for. In this case, we were selling very high quality veener products and a veener buyer had the high bid.
> NATTY: There are a lot of horror stories, but don't get me wrong there are also some very respectable loggers out there too. Forestry consultants will set the jobs up and administer them from start to finish for a fee. I agree, I would rather pay a fee to a consultant from $64,000 instead of only getting $22,000.
> 
> The bid example I gave is only from a selective cut on a 10-acre property. Wrap your mind around that one.


ekulrenlig,

I agree 100% with your comments. We were very happy with the timber jobs on both properties because they were contgrolled from start to finish, including final cleanup, by our forester. We used two different ones. One job was 100 miles from home but it was just around the corner from the forester, he visited the job site almost every day. Proceeds from both sales paid the taxes on both properties for several years and improved the lands for wildlife to boot.

I'll also add that 64K from a select cut on 10 acres means you had some really, really, really nice big veneer trees!!!  Good for you.

What kind were they: hard maple??

NB


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## ekulrenlig

Yes, it was all sugar maple on one of our clients properties. The sad part is, the owner is in poor health so he wanted to cash in on his investment for his family before he kicks the bucket.


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## Lucky Dog

Is there a resource for finding a forester? 
I might be interested in one for some land in the TC area.


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## ekulrenlig

The Association of Consulting Foresters is usually a good reference.
http://www.acf-foresters.org/AM/Tem..._a_Forester&Template=/custom/FindForester.cfm

Or try the Society of American Foresters.

Also, check with a MDNR Service Forester.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/IC4113A-ServiceForesters_182746_7.pdf

My company may be willing to work with you as well.


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## Grouse Hunter

Wow pretty impressive. I thought timber prices were way down, but that is a heck of price for wood right now.


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## mecheadSR

What is the breakdown in prices of wood? Are all hard woods worth more than soft wood. I only ask because i would like to get an idea for 10 acres i currently own that has alot of 60-80ft pine (12-15 of this size) on it and have no idea what it may be worth if anything.


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## PaleRider

Joyce Kilmer. 18861918 

Trees 

I THINK that I shall never see 
A poem lovely as a tree. 

A tree whose hungry mouth is prest 
Against the sweet earth's flowing breast; 

A tree that looks at God all day, 
And lifts her leafy arms to pray; 

A tree that may in summer wear 
A nest of robins in her hair; 

Upon whose bosom snow has lain; 
Who intimately lives with rain. 

Poems are made by fools like me, 
But only God can make a tree. 

---------------------------------------------------

What value is a tree? 
It takes maybe 80-120 years to grow to maturity
but in an instant it is gone to the chain saw for a few dollars and lost forever. While not totally oppose to proper forest management think twice before you cut that tree for money.


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## milmo1

While you are partially correct, Pale Rider, forest regeneration is vital and beneficial to the health of many forest creatures. Selected cuttings are extremely important and can be offset cost-wise by the sale of the lumber.


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## KeweenawJosh

I'm a consulting Forester here in the U.P. There are reputable loggers out there, but they are still timber buyers. The lower price they can get it, the more they can make. Different logging companies also have different markets/buyers that they sell their wood to. You always need to have a Consulting Forester assist you in a timber sale. Not only to facilitiate the competitive bidding process, but also for the management plans, and the legal contract. Most logging companies timber sale contracts are about one page, and do not provide adequate protection to the landowner. A forester's contract is 6 pages or more, and provide you protection for many potential problems that you would not even think of. I have yet to manage a sale where my fee wasn't easily offset by the higher prices received by the process. Not to mention a job well done.


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## Grouse Hunter

Josh:

How is the timber market right now? Are there any species that are higer demand at this time?


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## KeweenawJosh

Hardwood is still good money, but not as good as it used to be. Right now spruce is bringing relatively good money, so I'm doing a 90 acre spruce sale as we speak.


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## bigbuck

What are prices like for ash and popple? Anyone have a reccomendation for a consultant in the Clare area?


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## Rencoho

Wow timely thread, I have a logger coming out to my woods 86 acres near Jackson on Friday to look it over, mostly a mix of oak and hickory, I'm thinking I need a forester consultant.


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## GettinBucky

ekulrenlig, sounds like you know what your doing...is your company on the ACF list that you posted and do you do business in the Omer area? I have 38 acres that needs some trees removed and I have no idea where to start.

Scott


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## TkP

I agree. USE A CONSULTING FORESTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## goodworkstractors

Does anyone know of a reputable forestry consultant that covers the Sandusky area (in the Thumb)? We have a 20 acre woodlot, small 2 acre woodlot and several fencerows of mature timber.


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## huntfisheat

How are cedar proces looking? Does 1,000 per acre sound about right?


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## ekulrenlig

You could try Jacques Forestry (www.jacquesforest.com). They are out of Tawas, so I don't know if they cover your area.


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## anon442018

You should consider contacting the NRCS and get the names of several consultants. Talk over your plans with them and take notes. Not all consultants are created equal. As the landowner you will have to make the decision. Timber prices vary depending on what type of markets the logger has access to for his products. You may want to ask the consultant about bonds for your protection. I have seen jobs done by consultants and I wondered what the consultant was thinking. It didn't appear he had the landowners best interest in his(or her) vision. Just one persons $.02 worth.


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## D.C.U.P.

KeweenawJosh said:


> Hardwood is still good money, but not as good as it used to be. Right now spruce is bringing relatively good money, so I'm doing a 90 acre spruce sale as we speak.


Which kind of spruce?


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## Forest Meister

In the world of pulp wood the species really does not matter. The long, strong, fibers in all species of spruce make them much sought after in the paper industry. That paper in both your outdoor magazines and the Sunday paper more than likely have a lot of spruce in their make up.

As an aside, if you have large spruce on your property and want to build a camp consider getting some sawn for lumber. Spruce is lighter than pine or fir, drys relatively fast and is quite strong. It makes great 2x4s, 2x6s and 2x8s.


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## D.C.U.P.

I'm in the process of obtaining 120 acres, roughly 80 of which is spruce-laden. Lots of black spruce to be exact, with some hardwoods and a few white pine. Are white pine harvestable?

Glad I read this thread, as I may just get a consultant if/when the time comes.


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## Forest Meister

Anything is harvestable BUT do you really want to cut them? Depending on where you are W.Pine pulp may not be worth a lot and WP logs are not worth as much as most people think. It is next to impossible to make a real recommendation without seeing an area but generally speaking "cut some and leave some" is a good rule of thumb. Big WP make good places for tree stands or as backdrops for raised blinds (heated of course) if strategically located. Be careful though, from the limited info you provided it sounds like your area might be prone to wind throw. Cut with caution. FM


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## D.C.U.P.

Forest Meister said:


> Anything is harvestable BUT do you really want to cut them? Depending on where you are W.Pine pulp may not be worth a lot and WP logs are not worth as much as most people think. It is next to impossible to make a real recommendation without seeing an area but generally speaking "cut some and leave some" is a good rule of thumb. Big WP make good places for tree stands or as backdrops for raised blinds (heated of course) if strategically located. Be careful though, from the limited info you provided it sounds like your area might be prone to wind throw. Cut with caution. FM


Agreed. But the few white pines aren't really anywhere I'd want to put a stand anyway. Just curious. No real plans yet, just trying to get a little bit of an idea ahead of time.

There is a large amount of mature timber on the north and NW border of the land, across the road. Don't know that this parcel would get any more wind than any other place.

But yes, I agree, a genuine, professional assessment would be ideal....one in which the forester could actually walk the property. But I'll worry more about all that once I actually own it.


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## tdejong302

I have a bunch of virgin hemlock that have already been cut. They are on the ground by Munising/(Central u.p). Some are stacked many are still 60 plus feet long. Most are 2-3 ft in Diameter. Some are bigger. If you want to build a log home, cut your own lumber come and get them. They are FREE. I just want them gone so I can put a camp there. They are accessable from the road. A trailer with a boom can get 90% of the logs. The logger that cut them didnt' realize how big and heavy they were. He can't move them. So yours free. I want them gone asap.


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## bearstalker

The way the harvest is carried out matters and can be reflected in the price. Will the logger clean up, leave a stand that is in good shape for the future, for aesthtics, for wildlife and game? How will the water be affected? Logging can drastically improve timberland or drastically harm it. All of these factors have to be negotiated. A logger who pays the highest price may leave a mess, or could be the best choice, if he has the best equipment and knowledge to improve the land by his intelligent methods.


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## dwarner078

I just wanted to suggest to anyone thinking of making a timber sale of their property in the future to consider an offer that out or receive multiple quotes. We just had a sale of wood, which received 12 bids.


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