# How many steelhead do you keep a year?



## Spanky (Mar 21, 2001)

OK guys........all hatchery steelhead are not finclipped, as much as theyt would like to have it happen...it doesn't, and as much as we try to have all hatchery fish in Mich clipped(that includes salmon and trout) there just isn't the money or manpower to do it. The state is looking into a mechanized system to do it in a fraction of the time that humans do it, but these trailers(self contained systems) cost about 70 K a piece), but they can clip and micro tag fish in 1/10 of the time that they are currently done. Washington and Oregon have these facilities, they are federally mandated to clip and tag all hatchery fish there. The state would like to get a few of these facilities up and running, but the price tag is the killer. These trailers have all the bells and whistles, and the only human handling of the fish is to load them into the first stage hooper with a dip net, after that, the system is all mechanical, and it divides the fish by size, takes a pic of the fish before the clip, sizes the expected clip, makes the clip, takes another pic with the fin missing, sends it to get the wire tag(if necessary) the tag is placed precisely in the exact spot each time, and then send s the fish down a raceway to the holding pen or hatchery tank. This all takes less than 10 seconds.

Keep the faith, release what you want to, but I keep alot of fish, don't waste any. If you actually believe that any fish without a fin clip is a natural fish, you have been misled. Thats the way it is. Often on the northern streams these smaller unclipped fish are rainbows. Those of us who fish alot know the difference, but some folks might think they are 2 yr old steelies.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

silversides said:


> Lets say X creek has a carrying capacity of 5-10,000 smolts, and 100 hens run up the creek to spawn. While it may require just a couple hens to lay the amount of eggs required for that amount of smolts, it could very well need 90 of its hens to cover the amount of eggs lost to predation, gravel getting silted over, etc, to reach smolt capacity. hope this makes sense, if not, i plead the "fifth" as well.


I think Steve was talking about that it takes very few hens for hatchery purposes which definetly is the case since you get the max return from each batch of eggs. Please refer to a post of mine above, where when a qualified person was asked on multiple occassions just how big of an impact does the keeping of hen's has, the answer on multiple occassions has been "very little". I know that suprising and it seem to make more sense that more hens = more fish, but when the feeders to the grand have relatively little thermal refuge, the bulk of the yoy die, so you can have 10 hens spawn or 100, if there is only enough room for 10 hens worth of yoy, then the rest die. Of course I'm pulling these numbers out of the air, but you could easily use 100 vs 500 also, the same scenario applies. 

Like everyone else, I would love it if every released hen equated to more returning fish, but it just isn't the case on many rivers. If it was, I'd gladly switch over to salmon eggs.

BTW, all of the non-RP clipped fish that I caught on the Grand this year have been wild fish. Absolutely perfect dorsals.


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

Given due consideration of both sides of the debate and speculative, but unknown(at least to me), escapement levels needed to maintain wild runs, one thing that has not been considered is just how many fish it would take to maintain enough gene pool (not where Caddis swims) diversity to support a robust population of wild fish. With stream carrying capacities being what they are for varying bodies of water, while a relatively few hens may be able to meet the riverine carrying capacity in terms of numbers for that particular flow, what about for the random selection for fitness? 

Just a hypothetical question.


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## MPsteelheader (May 2, 2000)

well down by me its a RARITY to see an unclipped fish...
only once have i seen an unclipped steelhead on the joe but im pretty sure it was a stray...
the joe plain and simple would not be a steelhead fishery if it wasn't for the intra-state stocking plan between indiana and michigan...
cya on the water,
mark


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## Erik (Jan 17, 2000)

Hey Mark, those skams we caught last summer on the dow didn't have any fin clips. I remember commenting about that fact at the time. I don't think IN clips very many of their fish. Whether they're supposed to or not. MI is not much better, but I do notice more RP clips than any other type of fin clip. AD clips would be second. But quite a few steelhead I catch will have no fin clips at all. On rivers from the st joe up to the BM, and all around the way around to the ausable. I just can't believe they are all wild fish. Then again I'm not sure I care.
As for keeping or releasing, for me it comes down to this one simple factor. The more fish I catch, the more fish I release. The less fish I catch, the more fish I keep.
Good luck to everyone. Hope you all have a good winter fishery


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

> As for keeping or releasing, for me it comes down to this one simple factor. The more fish I catch, the more fish I release. The less fish I catch, the more fish I keep.


Makes perfect sense to me!


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## MPsteelheader (May 2, 2000)

they do its the fins in the middle...

maxillory i think they're called...

also too indiana uses the oxytetracicline that dies they're spinal cord too...

now i noticed that last summer some of the fish looked like they didn't have a clip at all but the fins were partially clipped because i showed it to the local dnr biologist and he showed me...

let me get a link...










now see the lower middle fins thats what the clip was supposed to be...










i wish we had more wild fish down by us but unfortunately the joe is too warm...

cya on the water...
mark


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## quest32a (Sep 25, 2001)

Erik said:


> As for keeping or releasing, for me it comes down to this one simple factor. The more fish I catch, the more fish I release. The less fish I catch, the more fish I keep


I do the exact same thing, the better the year i am having numbers wise the less likely i am to even want to keep a fish. Oh yeah, i forgot to mention at the beginning of this thread all skams go to the grill. 

Thanks for all the comments btw, lots of good info and very little arguing for arguing sakes going on.


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

http://www.glfc.org/fishstocking/exactsearch.htm


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## Spanky (Mar 21, 2001)

I am not positive but I think the Maxilary clip is a jaw tag, usually from Wisc. aren't the back fin Ventrals?
You are right Mark about the Mich/Indians co op program making the joe a major put and take fishery.

Michigan has been trying for years to get all the great lake states into clipping all hatchery steelheads. They are not getting much help from Wisc. and Canada is not too helpfull either. Don't be too hard on MDNR, we do have the most lakes(great lakes) and rivers of all the states to deal with. I think they are doing fine. By the way I keep about 75 % of the fish I catch for whatever reason, and the majority of them come from the Kazoo, St Joe, or Black. I would estimate 90 % of them ar RP clips.


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## bombcast (Sep 16, 2003)

In response to the orginal post- I kill a hen or three from the Joe per year, and most summer runs, keep a few, give the rest away. 

I haven't killed a fish from any other watershed in a long, long time.


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## Black Ghost (Jul 3, 2002)

Release all of them, except perhaps a summer run that does not appear will make it.

BG


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## bigsid (Jan 13, 2003)

1-10

That's usually what I catch in a year. If I all of a sudden started hammering them I would most likely still keep the same.


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## fish-on (Nov 27, 2004)

if i'm on the big lake they all hit the box but in the river or on the pier i let them all go if they look like they'll live.we dont target steelies that much due to slamming so many kings and coho but we take what the lake will give us.i've caught several over 17 lbs but lately their running on the small side 10 to 15 lbs so i dont target them as much as the bigger fish.nothen fights like a spring king so thats my target fish


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## pdkpotocki (Aug 3, 2004)

I keep over 20 a year the same with the salmon. I have a family of 4 and we eat fish once a week i rather have fresh fish than let my wife go to the store and buy some. When we keep salmon we can *alot* it a great christmas gift for the flatlanders down state:lol:


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