# Rustic Hunting Cabin



## Liver and Onions

DirtySteve said:


> I know a couple people that did exactly what you are doing. For your "leagal" outhouse..... buy a used porta jon. My buddy got
> ...........


And we now how DirtySteve got his name.

L & O


----------



## poz

https://www.google.com/amp/www.inst...uild-a-12x20-Cabin-on-a-Budget/?amp_page=true


----------



## sparky18181

Osceola said:


> This may be a little off-topic, but I want to build a rustic cabin on my hunting property in 2017. I've been saving up for some time and have about $20,000 for the project which would include some site prep, gate, cabin, deck and a steel storage container. I fully intend to consult the township and county building inspectors for proper permits, but I'm looking to hear about your experiences, advice, pitfalls, etc. I would like to build something around 16 ft. x 24 ft. There is no access to electricity. With all the government regulation these days are they going to tell me I can't occupy a dwelling if it doesn't have electricity and a septic system? I've already heard an outhouse isn't an option any more in Osceola County. I guess I can get around this by buying or renting a porta-jon and having it pumped out.
> 
> Any thoughts, advice or other insights are appreciated.


Composting toilet is another option


----------



## Steve

Osceola said:


> Definitely plan to have a 20 footer. I will keep any valuables I can locked in the container when I'm not there. I don't know how I can build a cabin with windows and doors that's burglar proof. I'll just try to only keep things in the cabin that aren't worth stealing. I'm hoping a good gate will discourage theft by forcing scumbags to park on the road and carry stuff down the driveway.


The gate won't stop them, just slow them down. I had a buddy who had a remote cabin ripped off. They tore the gate right off with a truck. Then they busted open the door of one of those 20' containers with a truck and a chain. All you can do is try to slow them down and not make it easy. If you don't live up there, they have all the time in the world to work on your place.


----------



## Steve

Boardman Brookies said:


> All good ideas but a determined scumbag with bust and smash at them to try to get in. We have been broken into a bunch of times at our place. There is nothing of any real value anymore. Just a PITA to replace doors and windows all the time.


Yeap, I sometimes wonder if it might be better just to leave the windows unlocked. At least you would save money on replacing them.


----------



## Radar420

Steve said:


> The gate won't stop them, just slow them down. I had a buddy who had a remote cabin ripped off. They tore the gate right off with a truck. Then they busted open the door of one of those 20' containers with a truck and a chain. All you can do is try to slow them down and not make it easy. If you don't live up there, they have all the time in the world to work on your place.




We have property not too far from the OP. Several years ago, we were broken into. Thieves disassembled our gate, ripped the barn door off it's track far enough for someone to crawl in, stole an entire truck out of our field (the brakes were seized ), and then stole the radiator out of another truck in the barn plus other miscellaneous stuff. The kicker is it all happened in less than a week - we left Sunday afternoon and returned Friday night.

For the OP, things we've done for security features are: build your windows high enough that someone can't peer in without a step ladder or something (and then don't leave anything around they could roll over and climb on), don't leave window screens in, drill holes in the window frames and put nails/rods through to prevent opening while your gone, motion lights, double locks on the door and a hasp with padlock on the storm door, if you have anything put together with bolts and don't anticipate having to take it apart - peen the threads down, make friends with at least 1 neighbor


----------



## bald eagle

Check with the Amish they are experts at living off the grid. There are some Amish that will build you a cabin on post without a foundation which is considered off the grid and most townships won't require a building permit. You also will won't have to pay taxes on the dwelling. Like somebody said in a previous post they treat it like a shed. For 20k you should be able to build something for that.


----------



## jjlrrw

When I looked into it a few years back in Lake County there were too many regulations for me to deal with. I purchased a used travel trailer for $6K used a 2000W generator for power, picked up a few 55 gallon plastic barrels and hauled water in for showers and clean up. There was a 4x4 deer blind I used for an outhouse I dug a good size hole then used a pallet and plywood for a floor, picked up a $30 toilet from Menard's another 55 gallon barrel mounted on a stand funneled rain water from the roof into the barrel for flushing. Worked good for the 8 years we owned the property.


----------



## Setter

My neighbor nest to ur hunting property just outside Reed City had the Amish that build storage sheds in Hersey build him a nice modular cabin that sits on a platform that the local authorities approved. He was very pleased with their work.


jjlrrw said:


> When I looked into it a few years back in Lake County there were too many regulations for me to deal with. I purchased a used travel trailer for $6K used a 2000W generator for power, picked up a few 55 gallon plastic barrels and hauled water in for showers and clean up. There was a 4x4 deer blind I used for an outhouse I dug a good size hole then used a pallet and plywood for a floor, picked up a $30 toilet from Menard's another 55 gallon barrel mounted on a stand funneled rain water from the roof into the barrel for flushing. Worked good for the 8 years we owned the property.


----------



## IceHog

I don't think it matters how you construct the building, or who builds it, you'll need a permit and will want one. Even small sheds most likely can't be constructed on a property if you don't already have a main dwelling. It's much easier to do your homework first and be forthright. $20K can build a nice place, so long as you're planning to help construct it. I built a remote cabin of the grid and it's awesome. I have an outhouse with a cement tank, a well, a solar system, propane vented furnace that requires no electricity. I went with 12 volt LED lights, a 12 volt water pump and it just like home. The biggest hurdle you will have is insurance, it's a struggle to find a company today that will insure a cabin without power, many did in the past and have grandfathered their clients, but new ones are a no-no. Farm Bureau does a country estate plan, this is probably the best option if you have a main home to insure as well. 95% of the insurance companies you'll call simply can't write the policy.


----------



## DirtySteve

You will get a lot of opinions on theft. One train of thought is to leave all window coverings open. Let everyone see in and leave nothing of value at all for anyone to see. You may have to get creative for leaving things of value. I know one guy that put fake ductwork in his place to store things like radios and electronics small generator etc.... that he didn't want to transport up there everytime he traveled. Personally for rustic cabin that has no airflow I like to have as much sunlight in the cabin as possible when gone. Sunlight will help kill bacteria and make the cabin less musty. Search creative ideas for hidden storage.


----------



## michigandrake

Osceola said:


> This may be a little off-topic, but I want to build a rustic cabin on my hunting property in 2017. I've been saving up for some time and have about $20,000 for the project which would include some site prep, gate, cabin, deck and a steel storage container. I fully intend to consult the township and county building inspectors for proper permits, but I'm looking to hear about your experiences, advice, pitfalls, etc. I would like to build something around 16 ft. x 24 ft. There is no access to electricity. With all the government regulation these days are they going to tell me I can't occupy a dwelling if it doesn't have electricity and a septic system? I've already heard an outhouse isn't an option any more in Osceola County. I guess I can get around this by buying or renting a porta-jon and having it pumped out.
> 
> Any thoughts, advice or other insights are appreciated.


Our camp has two dry cabins (with no electricity) similar in size to what you are planning. One has a cement pad and the other is built on piers. The cabin with the pad is far better at maintaining heat and easier to keep the mice out. Both have a covered porch and those really increase the usable size of the cabin, especially during season when everyone has rifles, bows, crossbows, totes, coolers and various other gear. A lot of stuff that used to find its way into the cabin now stays out on the porch.


----------



## hypox

This had always been a dream of mine. 

Then I realized just live on your hunting property, in the woods, in your log home.


----------



## unclecbass

Do some research on agricultural exemptions. Perhaps you make maple syrup in the structure , or jam. ??? Read up on it


----------



## 2508speed

You need water and heat and a septic system to be comfortable. If your property is paid for $20,000 is doable. If you mean real rustic with just bunks and a wood burner I'd forego insuring it. The insurance company is the biggest thief.
This is if you build out of pocket. No loans etc.


----------



## NorthWoodsHunter

Permit....what's a permit?


----------



## ckosal

I bought a place with a fonzi like garage where the previous owner put the garage under a lofted living space. It isn't quite a cabin looking thing on the outside but feels very much like one once inside. We have electric/gas but no water. 

It is a pain not having water. Bite the bullet and make that part of the plan. It isn't just about washing the coffee pot. That is easy to carry water in and out for. It is for the big things like food plots (25 gallon spray tanks), cleaning up after a successful hunt (sled, knives, cement floor, rubber gloves, tarps, other gear), etc. Always seem to need more than the 15-20 gallons we bring up. We also have an outhouse which keeps the family away a lot more than I expected. Finally bought a portable toilet for inside that uses RV solution, bags and a small toilet. But for that, my daughters wouldn't come up. 

As for trespassing and criminal activity. It is so frustrating. I have not had a problem (loud sound of me knocking on wood). But, one of my crotchety neighbors has promised me it is a when not an if before it happens to my place. I have double reinforced doors, handle and deadbolt locks, etc. I also have an alarm system. And by the way, I have all of this so they can't steal used plates, coffee pots, blankets, etc in the sleeping area and 15 year old quads in the barn (with no keys). I don't see anyone getting the tractor out. But everything else is old/used/no value. The guns/bows and everything of value, etc. go home every time I leave. Too bad we have to do all of this to protect the property that I worked 15 hour days for 15 years to buy.

My advice, similar to a post above. Do it right the first time. Assuming $20k is the absolute cap, put a budget together that gets you to $15k. Then go back over it and upgrade the things you won't be able to do easily later. (bigger footprint, plumbing, heating, insulation, high level windows that can't be crawled through easily, solid doors, better roofing, rat walls, chimney, etc.). It is easy and a lot more fun to go through the "wants" first. But, I highly recommend the "must haves" being the first part of the budget so you don't skimp on those. You will always regret not having water compared to antler light fixtures or the coolest wood stove. 

Good luck to you. There is no place like home, but I will tell you there is something much more special about a hunting place no matter how rustic. I go to the bunk house every chance I can.... rolling over in the cot for a quick 2am run to the out house in January just adds hair to the chest.


----------



## NorthWoodsHunter

Do some reading on passive solar design. Little things can make a big difference in comfort and energy consumption.


----------



## NorthWoodsHunter

We run our rifle season camp on a few old boat batteries. Lights are LEDs but are rarely on because we're either hunting or sleeping. We don't stay for long periods so to take them home and recharge isn't a huge problem. Wouldn't want to do this year round though


----------



## hitechman

QDMAMAN said:


> Yes, Michigan is too cloudy for solar to be an economical option and solar units aren't cheap, propane is.
> Propane water heater, stove, heat, and lanterns will give you all of the comforts of home.


.....and don't forget propane refrigerator as well.

Steve


----------



## IceHog

X1,000,000 on the well, I went several years without one and hauling water is a pain. Luckily I had a nice old man up the road that would let me get water, I made hundreds of trips there with the ATV filling sprayer tanks and a 55 gallon potable water tank. I put a well in 3 years ago, what a difference. The well comes with challenges as well, if you don't have a septic, the health department won't allow the water to be plumbed inside a building. You need to be creative.


----------



## mustang72

Am I the only one that keeps returning to this post hoping for pictures!


----------



## Osceola

mustang72 said:


> Am I the only one that keeps returning to this post hoping for pictures!


Great idea! Let's see some pictures of hunting cabins! Hopefully I will be able to post mine this summer. For now, here is a shot of the view from my future cabin site.


----------



## ckosal

Ok. Scrap whatever I said. What a view. Just build a porch. buy a chair and a propane fridge for the beers. You can drop the Cigar ashes in a coffee can. Awesome view!!!


----------



## IceHog

Not the best pics, but what I have handy. I'm a mile off the road, absolutely no neighbors and only see the neighboring farmer periodically.


----------



## jjlrrw

I think once you start look into a well and septic 1/2 your 20K is going to be gone. Sounds like you have a great spot pick out so the investment will be good down the road. Reason we decided to use a trailer to start is because we had many areas that were good building sites and wasn't sure where we wanted to be long term. I am not a fan of needing a permit every time you turn around so think things through getting caught without permits is not the end of the world but will cost more in the end.


----------



## May-39

A 24x30 garage kit in the 90s, a park pump was put in and sauna...The gas lights are still there though LED strips along the rafters make it like an operation room and two car batteries last a long time.
apartment propane stove/oven, deck torn off another house..It's big pimpin 4 bunks and a sleeper sofa.
Artic/Yeti coolers hold ice for loooong time don't need a fridge. Everyone has their own cooler and it leaves with you.


----------



## May-39

If you have timber, might want to consider a portable sawmill visit, It wouldn't take many trees to frame in what you are trying to do. Can certainly log side it if you want to spend a lot of your life taking care of exterior and having woodpecker nightmares. If you have the time to plan, start shopping the lumberyards for no pickup doors/windows/skylights. Mernards/lowes/home depot often have leftover, model change etc and you can really save some money if you have time to shop and pack that stuff away..
Can get some great truss deals that way too.


----------



## davulek

I have a 50 year old 27' Avion trailer permanently set up on our 50 acres in Washtenaw. We paid $350 for it, gutted it (mice got it) and remodelled for a few hundred bucks. It sleeps 5
We also have no electricity and also no water. We installed a wood burner in the camper for heat. We also have a 3 burner RV stove for cooking and cook outdoors often as well over a fire.
We built a porch and collect rainwater for washing and we just bring drinking water. We did install an outhouse, but it's illegal.
We ran a 12v system for lights using standard fixtures and use 12v Edison bulbs that cost around $5 each. We have 2 deep cycle batteries and 5 watts of solar panels that keep them charged. This will run for weeks without a charge.
We occasionally use a 1000 watt Harbor Freight 2 stroke Genny to top off the batteries, but it isn't needed often. We also use the Genny to charge Ryobi OnePlus batteries. I have a large amount of those tools and rarely find a job at the campsite that requires corded tools.
An ancillary benefit of the Genny is that it has a 12v 10amp outlet with large alligator clamps that are useful for starting machinery with dead batteries. The Genny is surprisingly quiet and portable.
We have not had anything stolen, but nothing out there that is steal-able is worth much. It's just nice to have the basics there and only have to bring out firearms, food and clothing.


----------



## DEDGOOSE

I can give you directions to a place in McBain, that builds them prefab sheds, they will build about anything and may save you time rather than building a cabin. They've got cool ones log cabin ones with porches.

In the community there is a propane refrigerator maker. Pretty sure the Amish hardware handles propane lighting.
Get your tounge and groove from Alan Holmes in Luther. He has 3rds for cheap.

On the corner of 70th and 115 there is discount insulation in 4x8 sheets.


----------



## yooperkenny

What you're envisioning sounds feasible although the situation certainly changes from county to county and region to region of the state.

We built our 20'x20' log cabin in The Copper Country in 2005 for around $20k. Wood heat, cathedral ceiling with a loft, propane lights and stove, no electricity save the occasional 12v deep cycle to run XM radio, metal roof to shed the heavy snowfall, and an outhouse. Went through the Houghton County permit/inspection process which wasn't horrible. Still hauling water, but looking at solutions for that. Someone mentioned having a porch and that is truly invaluable. Getting to exactly what you want takes time and patience. At the time we just wanted a warm rustic refuge to get us out of the popup camper we called home during deer season in the years prior, and every year we make improvements. Simply love this place - there's nothing more peaceful and gratifying. Never wanted a camp that was just like we picked up our year round home and its luxuries and trappings and plopped it down on our hunting property i.e. you're supposed to feel like you're not at home so you can reset and refresh. Here's the thread I posted back then:

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/threads/new-cabin-ready-just-in-time-for-deer-season.114449/

And some pics, although the place has changed a bit since then:



Good Luck!


----------



## May-39

Oh one more MUST DO...Kinda forgot something old woods builder taught.
Regardless of if you go shed route or trailer route, spend the money and buy the 32" or 36" roll sheet metal that is used for flashing or duct fabrication. run it perpendicular to joists or frame crossmembers.
My pal has a camper DEEP in the woods, he sealed up the bottom with this stuff and self tapping sheet metal screws and caulk. Hasn't had a mouse turd inside in 10 years. Still smells like a camper after a winter in hibernation too.
Did this on a recent shed build, guy has chipmunks living under his shed but hasn't had a mouse turd or varmint get inside. It's very, very worth the effort. And he would know, he sweeps the shed and washes the mower every couple weeks..you know the type.

I will add that a camper will keep your taxes down and you can still put a roof over it and a deck off the side.
If you build a sauna with a good drain (no matter what lodging you use), you can dry clothes quick, a battery powered shower pump and 5 gallon bucket will get anyone hosed off well, and if you fell in the creek or stayed out way too long in December, 15 minutes at 150+ degrees is truly a lifesaver..

Caution on the metal roof, and I like and have installed both...Metal roof is great for snow loads, if you build in areas where branches falling on roof are problem, metal is a pain to repair compared to shingles...I prefer metal but our camp has shingles on purpose.
.


----------



## mattawanhunter

First thing I would do is drive a well for a hand pump at the kitchen sink

All this is going to duplicate the hunting camp ive gone to for over 30 years in the UP the camp was built in the forties, had an indoor and and outdoor outhouse when we started. I plumbed in a bathroom shower stool sink hot water heater kitchen right next to the bathroom.

I'm sure this is repeating other comments but yes a gas refrigerator gas lamps throughout and a gas stove and oven.

I would plumb in Pex piping with drains in the crawl space and rough in the bathroom. I would wire it all even just rough-in during construction and I'd run direct bury wire out to a shed or future spot for a shed for the generator to keep the noise down. I'm shocked that they won't let you put in an outhouse,that doesn't sound right to me but what do I know with all the new Environmental regulations!

If you go this route you could put in the septic system first Drive the permanent well later you could actually manually fill the stool,I was planning on building a camp and if I did that I was going to build a trough that I could hook to the hand pump to fill the stool

anyway,just a few thoughts many of us have a dream of building a camp someday so good luck to you and enjoy the process.

I'm not real big on permits and asking permissions but it's better to get it squared away the right way if you think they're going to be breathing down your neck,we did most of our stuff before there was satellite images of everything nor were there drones. If I ever do this I'll buy an existing cabin,which makes it much easier to fly under the radar.

Another idea probably mentioned here is just a build a pole barn that will eventually be your cabin pull your permits just as a dirt floor pole barn then once you've got a permitted building up you have a lot of leeway to do things as you go without pulling permits based on what you're comfortable doing again good luck enjoy your dream!


----------



## mattawanhunter

http://www.jldr.com/lwyoh.shtml


QUOTE="Osceola, post: 6181766, member: 106252"]This may be a little off-topic, but I want to build a rustic cabin on my hunting property in 2017. I've been saving up for some time and have about $20,000 for the project which would include some site prep, gate, cabin, deck and a steel storage container. I fully intend to consult the township and county building inspectors for proper permits, but I'm looking to hear about your experiences, advice, pitfalls, etc. I would like to build something around 16 ft. x 24 ft. There is no access to electricity. With all the government regulation these days are they going to tell me I can't occupy a dwelling if it doesn't have electricity and a septic system? I've already heard an outhouse isn't an option any more in Osceola County. I guess I can get around this by buying or renting a porta-jon and having it pumped out.

Any thoughts, advice or other insights are appreciated.[/QUOTE]


----------



## wolfe

http://cdn.imageserver.c-m-g.us/michigan-sportsman_com/107/564615/68167-1462712393.jpg


----------



## wolfe

Had this built by the Amish and delivered to my property in Osceola County


----------



## Liver and Onions

Osceola said:


> ....
> I don't know how I can build a cabin with windows and doors that's burglar proof. I'll just try to only keep things in the cabin that aren't worth stealing...........


If you plan your building to be nearly burglarproof and are willing to spend the extra money, you will stop 99%+ of these people. You would not be able to stop a swat team, but criminals are not going to carry around the tools that these teams have to gain access to buildings. 

L & O


----------



## Luv2hunteup

Location is the best way to make you Camp burglar proof. Build in the UP, every camp I've owned or hunted out of for nearly a half century has never been broken into. I can't even tell you how many times the doors have been left unlocked for months at a time.


----------



## DEDGOOSE

Luv2hunteup said:


> Location is the best way to make you Camp burglar proof. Build in the UP, every camp I've owned or hunted out of for nearly a half century has never been broken into. I can't even tell you how many times the doors have been left unlocked for months at a time.


Alot of truth in that. Knew kids in HS that would use a trailer for parties on a random piece of private land.

Owner left a note, don't care you use it, leave it the way you found it and clean up after yourselves. He knew it was kids, but never came up to broken windows etc

I would bet more deer blinds locked get broken into then unlocked. You lock something up like fort Knox and a true thief wants in, he's getting in.


----------



## Gamekeeper

I own rural hunting properties.
Go to your twshp offices. Get the local ordinance.
Follow the law.
Don't listen to people that are uninformed.
They aren't spending your money. 

You may find you are limited to a min of 960 sqft.
If they say No! Petition for a zoning variance.
If you are denied, buy a modular at auction.


----------



## FREEPOP

Many people build their cabins out of landscape timbers, like this one.


----------



## bucko12pt

FREEPOP said:


> Many people build their cabins out of landscape timbers, like this one.
> 
> View attachment 245074
> View attachment 245075



Are those cracks between the logs, or is there a reflection?


----------



## Crawfish

FREEPOP said:


> Many people build their cabins out of landscape timbers, like this one.


Very interesting...I had never heard of that. Could be a good way to economically build a very robust 8x8 blind with bunks for napping. I wonder if the pileated woodpeckers would bother treated timbers?


----------



## Luv2hunteup

From what I've heard pressure treated wood produced now is not nearly as toxic as it was a decade ago. Even with that said I would still go with wood that has natural preservative characteristics such as cedar.


----------



## FREEPOP

bucko12pt said:


> Are those cracks between the logs, or is there a reflection?


They caulked with clear silicone. Not what I would do but it worked.


----------



## DirtySteve

Luv2hunteup said:


> From what I've heard pressure treated wood produced now is not nearly as toxic as it was a decade ago. Even with that said I would still go with wood that has natural preservative characteristics such as cedar.


I assume those were without pressure treatment. I drove by a place that makes them today near westbranch. They had stacks of them some were obviously treated and others looked as if they werent. Pretty sure they make them in Cedar too.


----------



## FREEPOP

I'm pretty sure the one we stayed in were treated but the newer kind. The price of them was something ike a buck or two each.
Heated quite well with 2" foam in the roof.


----------



## nothbound

DirtySteve said:


> I assume those were without pressure treatment. I drove by a place that makes them today near westbranch. They had stacks of them some were obviously treated and others looked as if they werent. Pretty sure they make them in Cedar too.


I've seen them available in untreated cedar. The arsenic is not aloud in treated lumber anymore as it was supposedly contaminating the ground. Think it was banned in late 90's. I've often thought about taking railroad ties and using a porta planer to round off 2 corners to create a D log. I build log homes, can't afford to own one myself but a railroad tie cabin has crossed my mind. Keep in mind if you build with new treated lumber it shrinks a ton. If you where building walls of landscape timbers this 'could' be inches in the height of the walls. Probably why it looks like there's about a 8" sag in the roof line of the cabin pic posted earlier. The catch 22 is if you allow the treated lumber to dry/shrink before building it gets so twisted and warped that you can't build decent with it. If you wanna save yourself time, heat and money just build a conventional frame and side it with log look siding. If your looking for the cool exposed true log nostalgia then have at it just know what your getting into for years to come


----------



## Liver and Onions

nothbound said:


> ..........
> 
> . If you wanna save yourself time, heat and money just build a conventional frame and side it with log look siding. If your looking for the cool exposed true log nostalgia then have at it just know what your getting into for years to come


Read the above again if you're thinking of building a log house.

L & O


----------



## Steve

nothbound said:


> I've seen them available in untreated cedar. The arsenic is not aloud in treated lumber anymore as it was supposedly contaminating the ground. Think it was banned in late 90's. I've often thought about taking railroad ties and using a porta planer to round off 2 corners to create a D log. I build log homes, can't afford to own one myself but a railroad tie cabin has crossed my mind. Keep in mind if you build with new treated lumber it shrinks a ton. If you where building walls of landscape timbers this 'could' be inches in the height of the walls. Probably why it looks like there's about a 8" sag in the roof line of the cabin pic posted earlier. The catch 22 is if you allow the treated lumber to dry/shrink before building it gets so twisted and warped that you can't build decent with it. If you wanna save yourself time, heat and money just build a conventional frame and side it with log look siding. If your looking for the cool exposed true log nostalgia then have at it just know what your getting into for years to come


Better yet, use the vinyl half log siding.


----------



## multibeard

Nothbound.

Have you ever worked with railroad ties or been around them?

The stink like nothing else from what they are treated with. They would tear a planer to pieces.

Plus they are heaver than you want to mess around with unless you have a crane


----------



## nothbound

multibeard said:


> Nothbound.
> 
> Have you ever worked with railroad ties or been around them?
> 
> The stink like nothing else from what they are treated with. They would tear a planer to pieces.
> 
> Plus they are heaver than you want to mess around with unless you have a crane


No I haven't, the local lumber yard has them piled up on occasion for a few bucks a piece. Just driving past the pile one day had me thinking that they could be similar to a 8x8 D log if rounded off. But a fraction the price. I have no knowledge of them, just driving past the pile. Now that you mention it I might have to walk over to the pile to give them a sniff and a lift to clear the idea out of my head. What are they treated with? A creosote or oil based concoction guessing from the color?


----------



## bucko12pt

nothbound said:


> I've seen them available in untreated cedar. The arsenic is not aloud in treated lumber anymore as it was supposedly contaminating the ground. Think it was banned in late 90's. I've often thought about taking railroad ties and using a porta planer to round off 2 corners to create a D log. I build log homes, can't afford to own one myself but a railroad tie cabin has crossed my mind. Keep in mind if you build with new treated lumber it shrinks a ton. If you where building walls of landscape timbers this 'could' be inches in the height of the walls. Probably why it looks like there's about a 8" sag in the roof line of the cabin pic posted earlier. The catch 22 is if you allow the treated lumber to dry/shrink before building it gets so twisted and warped that you can't build decent with it. If you wanna save yourself time, heat and money just build a conventional frame and side it with log look siding. If your looking for the cool exposed true log nostalgia then have at it just know what your getting into for years to come



I looked at all the options when I built my cabin and ultimately stick built it with cedar log siding butted to vertical logs on the corners. There's a source in the eastern UP for cedar log siding, nice stuff to work with and it's tongue and groove with hand hewn face. Price was same as pine siding in NLP.


----------



## nothbound

bucko12pt said:


> I looked at all the options when I built my cabin and ultimately stick built it with cedar log siding butted to vertical logs on the corners. There's a source in the eastern UP for cedar log siding, nice stuff to work with and it's tongue and groove with hand hewn face. Price was same as pine siding in NLP.


I'd be very interested in the vendor info you bought from. Always looking for better sources/more options. There's so much middle manning in this stuff that it's hard to get direct buy in my area


----------



## Liver and Onions

Steve said:


> Better yet, use the vinyl half log siding.



https://www.google.com/search?q=vin...X&ved=0ahUKEwjVi6LGyp3SAhXF7IMKHdqAAlYQsAQIKw

Some of the top of the line material is nice. 

L & O


----------



## bucko12pt

nothbound said:


> I'd be very interested in the vendor info you bought from. Always looking for better sources/more options. There's so much middle manning in this stuff that it's hard to get direct buy in my area


Haske Post Company in Detour. They are a mill and do everything there from raw logs through the hewing. You're buying direct from the mill in their case. 

They cut my corner logs for me and I also got hewn 2x4's from them for exterior window and door trim. I used the siding on the front of my loft inside and also made my own kitchen cabinets using the cedar siding for the cabinet doors. They came out pretty nice.


----------



## 2508speed

I don't want to dis rail this thread, but the OP should get with his township before he tries to put up an illegal building.


----------



## mattawanhunter

Hey just checking in for updates, I still don't have a rustic cabin so I live my dreams through others.

Would Love to see and hear about your Camp progress!


QUOTE="Osceola, post: 6181766, member: 106252"]This may be a little off-topic, but I want to build a rustic cabin on my hunting property in 2017. I've been saving up for some time and have about $20,000 for the project which would include some site prep, gate, cabin, deck and a steel storage container. I fully intend to consult the township and county building inspectors for proper permits, but I'm looking to hear about your experiences, advice, pitfalls, etc. I would like to build something around 16 ft. x 24 ft. There is no access to electricity. With all the government regulation these days are they going to tell me I can't occupy a dwelling if it doesn't have electricity and a septic system? I've already heard an outhouse isn't an option any more in Osceola County. I guess I can get around this by buying or renting a porta-jon and having it pumped out.

Any thoughts, advice or other insights are appreciated.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Masterplumber5000

I can't believe people still have the balls to break into cabins with all the trail cams out there now. We have two cameras hidden up in trees, the cops know who the local trouble makers are. It wouldn't be hard to find them.


----------



## Osceola

mattawanhunter said:


> Hey just checking in for updates, I still don't have a rustic cabin so I live my dreams through others.


Thanks for checking back, mattawanhunter. Not making progress as fast as hoped, but still plan to have my cabin before hunting season. I did submit permit applications for zoning, septic and soil erosion. All were approved. I have been given permission to install an outhouse, which was a concern in the beginning. I need some site work done by an excavator and I haven't been able to find one in the area that's available. Apparently, they are too busy on bigger jobs. Also, I planned to have a block wall foundation installed, but have found it to be prohibitively expensive, so I will have to build my own post and beam foundation.


----------



## Gamekeeper

There, That must make you feel all kinds of better.
You did all the right things.
You contacted your township, You got permitted, You learned the rules that apply to you, and now you can sleep at night.
And, all the scofflaws are enjoying the taste of roadside crow.

Next step, is finding a guy that can run a mini excavator, and go rent one.
Might look on Craig's List.

I can't tell if you have a cabin plan, or just an idea, but gouging out the holes for a post foundation is easy. Way practical as well. Houses were on posts for centuries before basements became de rigeur'. 2' square block posts are cheap and easy. You can build them one at a time with a shovel and a bucket if you need to. About 40$ each.


----------



## Osceola

Gamekeeper said:


> 2' square block posts are cheap and easy. You can build them one at a time with a shovel and a bucket if you need to. About 40$ each.


Can you explain this a little more? I was planning on using 6" treated wood posts buried below frost line, similar to how you would build a deck.


----------



## Gamekeeper

What's to explain? Dig a hole for the pier with a shovel below frost line, about 3' square.
Box in a concrete pier with scrap plywood about 3' square. Add rebar per township foundation specs. Fill with home mixed concrete. (I use crushed recycled concrete as my aggregate. Smooth the top with a chunk of 2x4. Leave the form in the hole.
Let cure.
I set batter boards for the building layout, so that my piers hit the corners square.
For a small light weight building, you might get away with a small pier, but it sucks fixing one that topples or cracks at a future date.
4 solid corners and a couple line piers will carry a good sized cabin for 200 years.
All hand dug and laid up on site if you want.
Just remember, start straight, stay straight.

Your township guy will have some copies of what the minimum foundation they'll accept is.
You can easily dig a post foundation by hand if it's necessary.


----------



## Trophy Specialist

Gamekeeper said:


> What's to explain? Dig a hole for the pier with a shovel below frost line, about 3' square.
> Box in a concrete pier with scrap plywood about 3' square. Add rebar per township foundation specs. Fill with home mixed concrete. (I use crushed recycled concrete as my aggregate. Smooth the top with a chunk of 2x4. Leave the form in the hole.
> Let cure.
> I set batter boards for the building layout, so that my piers hit the corners square.
> For a small light weight building, you might get away with a small pier, but it sucks fixing one that topples or cracks at a future date.
> 4 solid corners and a couple line piers will carry a good sized cabin for 200 years.
> All hand dug and laid up on site if you want.
> Just remember, start straight, stay straight.
> 
> Your township guy will have some copies of what the minimum foundation they'll accept is.
> You can easily dig a post foundation by hand if it's necessary.


They do make some prefab, concrete blocks to support posts and they come in all shapes and sizes.


----------



## Waif

That minimum foundation and it' s depth can be expected to be involved in an inspection.

A friend runs his big tractor posthole digger and pours concrete to height desired to make piers for posts to rest on.

Browsing for materials on Craigslist turned up a concrete siding(?) that looks like log.......Interesting , but I wondered about longevity.


----------



## Gamekeeper

Just remember, a building starts with it's foundation.
So, do what your BUILDING requires.
If you are just camping in a disposable shed, that's another matter.

I want something I can sell when I'm done.


----------



## Osceola

Gamekeeper said:


> Just remember, a building starts with it's foundation.
> So, do what your BUILDING requires.
> If you are just camping in a disposable shed, that's another matter.
> 
> I want something I can sell when I'm done.


Thanks for the further explanation. I understand how important the foundation is. I'm trying to find the right balance between my abilities and my budget. Was hoping to hire the foundation done professionally, but it looks like that's out. So now I'm trying to determine the most economical foundation I can do myself. Your description sounds very labor intensive.


----------



## FREEPOP

Doesn't sound labor intensive to me. Could easily have it done in a weekend.


----------



## Gamekeeper

Labor I got, when I have no money. 
A shovel is cheap.

Seriously, start with a site plan, some batter boards, string, line level, and a set of acceptable pier drawings from your township inspector's office.

Figure out what you have to do, and then start there.

Foundations are meant for ground contact. So, even if you only get 1 done a week, when they are done, they are done. They can sit till your money's right.

Sometimes, I'm in a hurry, sometimes not. 
Don't be afraid of digging a hole. It's a hole. Fill it back in if you don't like it.


----------



## Waif

Gamekeeper said:


> Labor I got, when I have no money.
> A shovel is cheap.
> 
> Seriously, start with a site plan, some batter boards, string, line level, and a set of acceptable pier drawings from your township inspector's office.
> 
> Figure out what you have to do, and then start there.
> 
> Foundations are meant for ground contact. So, even if you only get 1 done a week, when they are done, they are done. They can sit till your money's right.
> 
> Sometimes, I'm in a hurry, sometimes not.
> Don't be afraid of digging a hole. It's a hole. Fill it back in if you don't like it.


Neighbors blind dog came up missing when another neighbor bored postholes with the big auger and left them till pouring concrete.
A pour was started before the dog was spotted in the very hole...


----------



## Osceola

Gamekeeper said:


> Labor I got, when I have no money.
> A shovel is cheap.
> 
> Seriously, start with a site plan, some batter boards, string, line level, and a set of acceptable pier drawings from your township inspector's office.
> 
> Figure out what you have to do, and then start there.
> 
> Foundations are meant for ground contact. So, even if you only get 1 done a week, when they are done, they are done. They can sit till your money's right.
> 
> Sometimes, I'm in a hurry, sometimes not.
> Don't be afraid of digging a hole. It's a hole. Fill it back in if you don't like it.


Thanks for your encouragement. Maybe that's what I need most.


----------



## Gamekeeper

I've had all kinds of critters jump into pole barn holes over night.
But, hey, There is a time lag between digging the holes, and when a concrete truck shows.
Or in the OP's case, between his digging and forming the first pier, and hand mixing the concrete to pour it.

Edited to add for the OP,

It's just a hole. Can you dig it?


----------



## mattawanhunter

Hey good luck, were going to look at a small parcel in the up in august, the guy wants to lease first (check out his neighbors 1st, gives me a chance to check it out) than possibly sell, it's surrounded by GMO land (what ever that is) with some paper company close by and 100's of acres of state land close by.

I live for the dream, but would prefer to by a camp that's in need of repair and salvageable so I don't have to jump though all the hoops! All land and Camps have increased so much in price, I should have bought during the great recession (Buy Lo Sell high!)

The wife wants to build another house but, the thought of it all makes my BP go up, not sure I have the patience for it all any more. 

Well keep us posted, hope it all goes well for you...


MH



Osceola said:


> Thanks for checking back, mattawanhunter. Not making progress as fast as hoped, but still plan to have my cabin before hunting season. I did submit permit applications for zoning, septic and soil erosion. All were approved. I have been given permission to install an outhouse, which was a concern in the beginning. I need some site work done by an excavator and I haven't been able to find one in the area that's available. Apparently, they are too busy on bigger jobs. Also, I planned to have a block wall foundation installed, but have found it to be prohibitively expensive, so I will have to build my own post and beam foundation.





Osceola said:


> Thanks for checking back,


----------



## bwlacy

Just curious. Would it be better to build piers or to do a post frame like a pole barn with an insulated slab? If on piers how do you keep critters out and insulate under the subfloor? Pole barns are pretty easy and quick.

Still use batter boards, string, etc to square up your posts, rent a post hole auger to get your started. My township had to inspect the holes before I filled them in. Pour a couple feet of concrete in the bottom of each hole below the frost line.


----------



## Gamekeeper

Can't live in a Polebarn. It's been covered.

One easy way to insulate is to sheath the bottom of the deck with barn ceiling panels (thinner). Then drop the floor bats in before you deck it.You still sheath the skirt with a ground contact product, maybe even attach decorative plastic faux stone, faux stone, but probably not real stone, to that, and then build from the deck up using "Western platform" construction technique.


----------



## bwlacy

Oh yeah, forgot about living in a pole barn.


----------



## Gamekeeper

bwlacy said:


> Oh yeah, forgot about living in a pole barn.


It's not my set of rules. I just follow them.

A guy can build his foundation, floor system, and deck it, 20$ at a time.
It's about time, ambition, and not so much money.


----------



## Wild Thing

mattawanhunter said:


> Hey good luck, were going to look at a small parcel in the up in august, the guy wants to lease first (check out his neighbors 1st, gives me a chance to check it out) than possibly sell, *it's surrounded by GMO land (what ever that is*) with some paper company close by and 100's of acres of state land close by.


GMO Threshold is an investment company out of Boston. They bought up 100's of thousands of acres from the paper companies several years ago so it is mostly land which was formerly owned by paper companies. Consequently, it is mostly all enrolled in Commercial Forest and is open to the public.


----------



## mattawanhunter

Well Oc, it looks like I opened Pandora's Box..! Sorry about that!

My wife and I have been driving by a couple of places here in Southwest Michigan, very classy looking Pole barn structures with the garage on one side and a custom high-end house on the other with metal roofs and porches and things and other customizations! One is in Marcellus and the other ones up by Bloomingdale.
Anyway we're looking at buying some land selling where we're at because it's a very expensive school system high taxes Etc we'd like to get everything on one floor!

The guy I hired to do my pole barn did a terrible job but my construction Days Are Over especially when a professional comes in and knows what they're doing and doesn't have to sit there and scratch his head !

See if you can find a good Barn Builder go look at his work and get some references,he can come in set the post and have the thing framed in before novices like us could hardly have lifted a board,let alone get everything Square & Level!
The only way you can get around that is if you've got a buddy or a relative in the construction business that knows what they're doing but with me, I've had two brother-in-laws in the business. I kind of do the Dave Ramsey thing, I won't hire anybody from the family they always feel like they're underpaid or you feel you owe them. blah blah blah I'd rather pay the right guy a fair price and I can clearly lay out my expectations to him without any reservations!

Good luck and don't get discouraged it'll come together! There's a lot of holes in the construction industry after the Great Recession, lack of skilled workers and everybody's busy finally!


Osceola said:


> Thanks for checking back, mattawanhunter. Not making progress as fast as hoped, but still plan to have my cabin before hunting season. I did submit permit applications for zoning, septic and soil erosion. All were approved. I have been given permission to install an outhouse, which was a concern in the beginning. I need some site work done by an excavator and I haven't been able to find one in the area that's available. Apparently, they are too busy on bigger jobs. Also, I planned to have a block wall foundation installed, but have found it to be prohibitively expensive, so I will have to build my own post and beam foundation.


----------



## FREEPOP

Gamekeeper said:


> It's not my set of rules. I just follow them.
> 
> A guy can build his foundation, floor system, and deck it, 20$ at a time.
> It's about time, ambition, and not so much money.


I know many people that have built living quarters in one side of a pole barn and got occupancy permits.


----------



## brushbuster

As long as you stay off the driveway in the spring during ice out and frost there is no need for gravel. but if you intend on driving on it in march and april better have some good gravel down on top of a good base.
I put in a1/2 mile of gravel road and have learned the hard way not to skimp on material. cut out all the top soil and clay, put down a good base and top it with limestone. I just cut in another road this spring. its close to 900 feet. we have to cut out all the top soil yet, I have a good sandy hill that I will be getting material from and will then top it with limestone. we will live on it year round though.


----------



## brushbuster

One thing that really helped my road, ( fought mud for a lot of years) was having it compacted with a vibrating roller. Once they did that we had no problems with mud and losing gravel. Its expensive having a road put in!


----------



## multibeard

Waif The majority of the log cabins and barns in the south are built from poplar. Many have stood for ever. Actually poplar is classed as a hard wood.


----------



## brushbuster

multibeard said:


> Waif The majority of the log cabins and barns in the south are built from poplar. Many have stood for ever. Actually poplar is classed as a hard wood.


Most everyone of those that are still standing have long overhangs, covered porches, and are high off the ground. Poplar and pine will rot quickly if they aren't protected from the elements.


----------



## brushbuster

brushbuster said:


> Most everyone of those that are still standing have long overhangs, covered porches, and are high off the ground. Poplar and pine will rot quickly if they aren't protected from the elements.


Your typical Appalachian style cabin


----------



## multibeard

There is a program on the DIY network called Barnwood Builders. They are out of West Va. They buy and tear down old barns and cabins to salvage them. They rebuild them in other locations.

Little to no over hang is hard on any building. Not only rain but the sun is hard on wood. A lot of the wood shingles in those old southern cabins are oak split with a froe.

Interesting different colored log in the gable end of that cabin. Makes me wonder what kind of tree it came from.


----------



## Osceola

Well I "bit the bullet" and went ahead with the site prep. Here's my new driveway. I know it's not as rustic as an idyllic hunting camp, but keep in mind, I intend to build my retirement home here in ten to twelve years and will need this driveway for construction traffic and full time use.








Here's my view of the lake from the building site.


----------



## greense1

Looks like you've got a pretty nice slice of heaven for the future.


----------



## Waif

brushbuster said:


> One thing that really helped my road, ( fought mud for a lot of years) was having it compacted with a vibrating roller. Once they did that we had no problems with mud and losing gravel. Its expensive having a road put in!


Expense indeed.
A road is as good as it' s base.
Ditches alow draining and slope feeds diches.
A higher crown can shed water better than an inverted U shaped crown ,but needs maintained better where " spine" gets broke if heavy equipment crushes it by turning.
Been fighting a poor road for over a decade here...

Compacting dry material is much more effective than wet with vibe equipment.


----------



## unclecbass

Speaking from personal experience, as in court house experience. I have a "sugar shack" on my property that I filed an agricultural exemption on, it worked as far as the court was concerned, and I got the idea from a building inspector. A. Friend of mine built a tiny house on top of Ann old Trailer frame and put it in his lake lot. Judge allowed it with the reasoning that it was not actually touching the land and was technicially still mobile. Building inspector was furious but the judge said he couldn't fault someone for using alittle "yankee ingenuity "


----------



## mattawanhunter

BEAUTIFUL OC! Thanks for sharing it with us, mine is still a dream, but it's great to see some one live the Dream!

You won't be stuck in the mud!



Osceola said:


> Well I "bit the bullet" and went ahead with the site prep. Here's my new driveway. I know it's not as rustic as an idyllic hunting camp, but keep in mind, I intend to build my retirement home here in ten to twelve years and will need this driveway for construction traffic and full time use.
> View attachment 261247
> 
> Here's my view of the lake from the building site.
> View attachment 261248


----------



## Osceola

Well I guess I made a mistake by trying to play by the rules. After spending thousands on site and foundation prep, the building inspector will not allow me to build a 14' x 24' structure on my proposed site because he believes the soil is unstable and too close to a bank. I can't believe this. Do I have any recourse?


----------



## plugger

Osceola said:


> Well I guess I made a mistake by trying to play by the rules. After spending thousands on site and foundation prep, the building inspector will not allow me to build a 14' x 24' structure on my proposed site because he believes the soil is unstable and too close to a bank. I can't believe this. Do I have any recourse?


Geotechnical engineer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geotechnical_engineering


----------



## Waif

Osceola said:


> Well I guess I made a mistake by trying to play by the rules. After spending thousands on site and foundation prep, the building inspector will not allow me to build a 14' x 24' structure on my proposed site because he believes the soil is unstable and too close to a bank. I can't believe this. Do I have any recourse?


Can the bank be moved and drains used?
Certain glacial till ,when resting on bed rock can be unstable. Other material below till can have a similar result ,but moisture/ rain ,snow ,factor the most .

More specific detail as to what is unstable will matter ,but guessing the bank is the issue?


----------



## sureshotscott

Osceola said:


> Well I guess I made a mistake by trying to play by the rules. After spending thousands on site and foundation prep, the building inspector will not allow me to build a 14' x 24' structure on my proposed site because he believes the soil is unstable and too close to a bank. I can't believe this. Do I have any recourse?


Maybe "too close to a bank" was code for "treat me like a bank" ? 

Sorry to read this, I really dislike big government.


----------



## Osceola

plugger said:


> Geotechnical engineer.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geotechnical_engineering


Know any in Cadillac or Big Rapids?


----------



## plugger

Prein & Newhof, I would google these guys.


----------



## Liver and Onions

Osceola said:


> Well I guess I made a mistake by trying to play by the rules. After spending thousands on site and foundation prep, the building inspector will not allow me to build a 14' x 24' structure on my proposed site because he believes the soil is unstable and too close to a bank. I can't believe this. Do I have any recourse?


For a site like this, would it normal to get the building inspector to the location for recommendations and approval before any prep work is even considered ?

L & O


----------



## Osceola

Liver and Onions said:


> For a site like this, would it normal to get the building inspector to the location for recommendations and approval before any prep work is even considered ?
> 
> L & O


Good question. Obviously I should have insisted on this in retrospect. I met him in person and explained exactly what I wanted to do. I told him the excavator had brought in a lot of sand and I would be building near a bank. He expressed concern, but said to just make sure I was putting my footings 42" down on undisturbed soil. I got the impression he was unwilling to inspect the site prior to the normal timing, which is after digging the footings, but before pouring concrete.


----------



## plugger

Liver and Onions said:


> For a site like this, would it normal to get the building inspector to the location for recommendations and approval before any prep work is even considered ?
> 
> L & O


 Other than lake shore, river frontage, or dune usually not. Health department (septic)approval and zoning approval is often sought even before purchase. I normally would not involve the building inspector before footing inspection unless I questioned something. The soils engineer I use to use is gone from the area but I sometimes would have him drive by a site and see if he had any concerns. In the past there have been buildings fail because of soil conditions. It maybe ten+ years and often a second owner when the problems show up. If the building is built on an inappropriate base homeowners insurance may not cover someone's negligence. If the base will not support the building the inspector may be doing the owner a favor.


----------



## Hunters Edge

You might not be able to put a travel trailer, but many can not stop mobile homes do to government low income housing mandates. With that in mind not sure but have seen ads for park models used for 8 to 12000. Also 80 acres down the road put one on his a few years ago, different county. 

Septic system about 3000, and shallow well with outside frost free yard hydrant if you do it about 1500 with pump. Not able to drink but can be used for showers, toilets, garden, lawn. In the winter blow out lines just use bucket to get water to flush toilet and spit baths. Just have to remember to bring bottled water or drinking water up.

You will need generator to run pump, a good hybrid on sale is about 600 than use 100lb cylinder for heat for ac in summer months, microwave, fridge etc..

Just a thought


----------



## bwlacy

I can't put up a shed without a permanent residence first. I can use a tent or possibly a travel trailer on my Lakeview property, but the trailer probably can't stay there year round.


----------



## Liver and Onions

Luv2hunteup said:


> Un zoned townships are becoming a thing of the past.


Thank god for that.

L & O


----------



## Osceola

Liver and Onions said:


> We understand your anger and frustration. I don't see why you regret going by the book each step of the way to avoid all of the headaches and costs when the township came knocking in the near future. Hope you & building inspector come up with a solution with minimal costs, but it sure does look like you are in one tough spot.
> 
> L & O


What exactly are the headaches and costs if I build on an unapproved foundation? It seems others that just build cabins without permits that are caught simply have to pay a some fines and permit fees and they're good to go.


----------



## Waif

Osceola said:


> Well I guess I made a mistake by trying to play by the rules. After spending thousands on site and foundation prep, the building inspector will not allow me to build a 14' x 24' structure on my proposed site because he believes the soil is unstable and too close to a bank. I can't believe this. Do I have any recourse?


I would be asking the inspector for details of what options exist. Not to commit to following any ,but to weigh options.

There are buildings over caverns carved repeatedly by hydraulics ( water) in one city they keep pumping concrete under.

Will a certain depth of concrete " float" a foundation anchored by " deadmen" type holding devices?
Pilings?

How far from bank can you build and use structure height for a view of water?(Keep access into cabin ,and your mobility as you age so you can still get in and use cabin levels).

The lake is old. Keeping a cabin from sliding down the bank is understandable for your safety ,but the lake will be a marsh in time ,perhaps. A bank failure would hurt you more than the lake....

A cabin on skids could be moved off it' s foundation should soil shift...and if site prep leaves room to draw it farther away from bank.

Insulated floor is not a deal breaker ,and deep wall studs can allow built in' s. Shelves ,windows ect..
Not sure what a log cabin would be up against for code there.

Seems somewhere there is a footprint your cabin can sit on.
Can fill be built up to gain elevation enough at that point to still get your view?
A benefit to that could be a storm cellar/walk out or utility type room below.

A way where there is no way ..and a legal one ; might exist if you work it hard enough.
Cost will factor too of course. As well as time.


----------



## Steve

Remember that many jurisdictions won't allow the permanent storage/use of a travel trailer without a residence. I ran into this.


----------



## plugger

Osceola said:


> What exactly are the headaches and costs if I build on an unapproved foundation? It seems others that just build cabins without permits that are caught simply have to pay a some fines and permit fees and they're good to go.


 If you are not able to bring the structure up to code removal is usually mandated. If you meet code or can come into compliance fines and penalties are applied.


----------



## Osceola

Back in business! My foundation is approved!


----------



## Osceola

After a long winter, it's time to get back to my cabin project. Here's the result of three long days of framing.


----------



## Big Beard

Osceola said:


> After a long winter, it's time to get back to my cabin project. Here's the result of three long days of framing.
> View attachment 313625


Looks great!


----------



## uofmball1

wow that looks awesome. Great view to look over and have cold one after a hard days work.


----------



## Gamekeeper

I want to commend you on your diligence, honesty, and the quality of your work.
Well done!


----------



## bigbucks160

That is going to be awesome, congrats!!


----------



## FREEPOP

The bugs will be getting bad soon.


----------



## QDMAMAN

Osceola said:


> After a long winter, it's time to get back to my cabin project. Here's the result of three long days of framing.
> View attachment 313625



Awesome! What will you be applying for siding?


----------



## Timberdoodle2

looking good, enjoy your time there


----------



## Osceola

QDMAMAN said:


> Awesome! What will you be applying for siding?


Trying to go low maintenance so we'll go with a metal roof and fiber cement siding.


----------



## QDMAMAN

Osceola said:


> Trying to go low maintenance so we'll go with a metal roof and fiber cement siding.



Great choices. The Fiber cement board i.e. Hardy Plank, will give the woodpeckers a run for their money! LOL
29 ga. pole barn metal will do the job but the fasteners are exposed. For a few bucks more you can go 26 ga. concealed fastener (standing seam) and never worry about it the rest of your life! I'd also HIGHLY recommend Ice and Water Shield under the entire metal roof.


----------



## Osceola

QDMAMAN said:


> Great choices. The Fiber cement board i.e. Hardy Plank, will give the woodpeckers a run for their money! LOL
> 29 ga. pole barn metal will do the job but the fasteners are exposed. For a few bucks more you can go 26 ga. concealed fastener (standing seam) and never worry about it the rest of your life! I'd also HIGHLY recommend Ice and Water Shield under the entire metal roof.


I've already contracted an Amish neighbor to install the roof. Hopefully he's doing it as I type. He quoted me 29 gauge, but it's a "prime" grade which means it's got some extra rust proofing over the standard grade. I did request three rows of ice and water shield on each side which should cover quite a bit.


----------



## mjh4

(I have a tip for your new cabin) we leave our window curtain open on one of our cabin Windows the reason we do this is so any body snooping around can see into the cabin and see there's nothing worth breaking in for it has been very effective and have never had a break in. Trick is leave one curtain open and put any valuable items inside directly under that window along the floor where no one can see them. When you keep all the windows covered they'll always break in just to see what's in there. Let em see there's nothing to take and it will discourage them from breaking a window or door to get in. It's sad we have to do this but it does work. A lot of people up north even leave their cabins unlocked year round just so people don't break doors or windows to get in.


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## FREEPOP

Bugs out yet?


----------



## QDMAMAN

Osceola said:


> This is all I have. Small and simple...bedroom and closet on right not shown.
> View attachment 314902



Update?


----------



## Osceola

Got over a major hurdle with inspections. Electrical passed. Rough-in passed with only a couple minor dings. Working on insulation and then interior and siding. Thanks for asking.

There's nothing new to see on the cabin, but last week I was working on insulation and this was my view from the porch as the sun set. Can't wait to be able to relax and enjoy this place.


----------



## Swampdog467

Osceola said:


> Got over a major hurdle with inspections. Electrical passed. Rough-in passed with only a couple minor dings. Working on insulation and then interior and siding. Thanks for asking.
> 
> There's nothing new to see on the cabin, but last week I was working on insulation and this was my view from the porch as the sun set. Can't wait to be able to relax and enjoy this place.
> View attachment 318342


Beautiful view. Looks like that was your reward for being there working that day

Sent from my XT1585 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Osceola

Slow, but steady progress. Insulation was approved, so we installed the knotty pine on the walls last weekend.


----------



## Luv2hunteup

Looking good.


----------



## QDMAMAN

Gotta love it!


----------



## Osceola

Luv2hunteup said:


> You can save money by going with a spot foundation. Bigfoot systems can save you time. There are other options out there.
> http://www.bigfootsystems.com/


Just want to thank you for taking the time to post this link, Luv2hunteup. This is what I ended up doing for my foundation. It was very economical and worked out very well. Thanks!


----------



## old graybeard

Awesome build!


----------



## FREEPOP

Osceola said:


> Just want to thank you for taking the time to post this link, Luv2hunteup. This is what I ended up doing for my foundation. It was very economical and worked out very well. Thanks!


I see some caps on the big foot posts wrapped on the beam . 
How are they attached to posts?
You don't think a strong wind could flip the cabin off?


----------



## Osceola

FREEPOP said:


> I see some caps on the big foot posts wrapped on the beam .
> How are they attached to posts?
> You don't think a strong wind could flip the cabin off?


The brackets are bolted 7" into the concrete, each bracket has four 5" bolts attaching it to the beam and there are hurricane straps attaching each floor joist to each beam. I don't think a strong wind could flip it off. Maybe a hurricane.


----------



## FREEPOP

I couldn't see bolts sticking out of the poured tubes.


----------



## QDMAMAN

Osceola said:


> View attachment 323938


I'm assuming that the beams are treated, but why the OSB exposed and so close to grade?


----------



## Waif

Dang Osceola.
I sigh with delight just looking at your pics..
Not discounting the hard work ,but what a site and build...!


----------



## Osceola

QDMAMAN said:


> I'm assuming that the beams are treated, but why the OSB exposed and so close to grade?


Good observation. The brackets are a little wider than the three, laminated 2 x 12s. My nephew, who's an excellent and experienced framer, inserted the OSB to take up the space. He didn't seem to think it would be a problem being close to the ground, so I didn't question it.

I don't care for it aesthetically. I'll probably cover the OSB with fiber cement when I do the siding.


----------



## Osceola

FREEPOP said:


> I couldn't see bolts sticking out of the poured tubes.


We drilled into the concrete after the pour.


----------



## OnHoPr

Osceola said:


> Good observation. The brackets are a little wider than the three, laminated 2 x 12s. My nephew, who's an excellent and experienced framer, inserted the OSB to take up the space. He didn't seem to think it would be a problem being close to the ground, so I didn't question it.
> 
> I don't care for it aesthetically. I'll probably cover the OSB with fiber cement when I do the siding.


I am supposing you are going to have some form of skirting. Just an opinion, but treated plywood or at least Thompsons or whatever the heck out of that OSB. You might also look into porcupine repellent of some form depending on the rest of the construction.


----------



## Osceola

OnHoPr said:


> I am supposing you are going to have some form of skirting. Just an opinion, but treated plywood or at least Thompsons or whatever the heck out of that OSB. You might also look into porcupine repellent of some form depending on the rest of the construction.


I don't intend to put on any skirting. The building code gave me the option of insulated skirting or simply insulating the floor itself, which I chose. It may not look as pleasing, but I prefer the free flow of air under the structure to reduce moisture and keep animals from nesting, etc.


----------



## FREEPOP

Osceola said:


> We drilled into the concrete after the pour.


Aahhh. I had thought that casting them in would be easier.


----------



## Osceola

FREEPOP said:


> Aahhh. I had thought that casting them in would be easier.


I thought so too, but when I asked my nephew if he wanted me to insert the bolts when we poured, he said he'd rather just drill it himself. Okay.


----------



## DirtySteve

FREEPOP said:


> I see some caps on the big foot posts wrapped on the beam .
> How are they attached to posts?
> You don't think a strong wind could flip the cabin off?


 edit: never mind I see this was answered.....when i clicked on the link it dodnt show the other pages at first for some reason.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Osceola

Progress has been slow with only Saturdays to work on my cabin, but the end is in sight, just in time for hunting season.


----------



## QDMAMAN

Wowsers! Looks fantastic! 
Is that floor a laminate?


----------



## TriggerDiscipline

You call that rustic?!  So when are you going to enter it into the Parade of Homes?


----------



## Osceola

QDMAMAN said:


> Wowsers! Looks fantastic!
> Is that floor a laminate?


Thanks, QDMAMAN! Vinyl plank flooring. I think the color actually clashes a little with the knotty pine, but nothing I can do about that now. It will probably look fine once it's furnished.


----------



## Osceola

TriggerDiscipline said:


> You call that rustic?!  So when are you going to enter it into the Parade of Homes?


Well, no plumbing, so most people would still consider it "rustic". 

It's occurred to me throughout the project I'm spending a lot of money on such a small structure. It may have been wise to go a little bigger since I was going through the expense and trouble, but I wanted it just big enough to meet my needs and I wanted no/low maintenance materials, which cost more. I also had to meet all applicable building codes, so I couldn't just put up a shack.


----------



## stickman1978

What are u going with for heat?


----------



## Osceola

stickman1978 said:


> What are u going with for heat?


I know it seems like heresy to not heat with wood in a hunting cabin, but a wood stove would take up a lot of space and temperature would be difficult to regulate. I will just use a small propane heater.

This place is ridiculously over-insulated to meet code (2x6 walls, R-49 in attic), so it won't take much to heat 300 square feet. I'm thinking my portable Buddy heater at 9,000 BTU might do it. If not, I have a 20,000 BTU.


----------



## Waif

Osceola said:


> Well, no plumbing, so most people would still consider it "rustic".
> 
> It's occurred to me throughout the project I'm spending a lot of money on such a small structure. It may have been wise to go a little bigger since I was going through the expense and trouble, but I wanted it just big enough to meet my needs and I wanted no/low maintenance materials, which cost more. I also had to meet all applicable building codes, so I couldn't just put up a shack.


Designed to expand is always nice....

You using good guy stuff/more $$$for better quality may seem pricey now....But give it ten years. 
I use a simple shed for comparison and the cost is far greater today than a dozen years ago ,making the added expense of over building a foundation , and a couple other tweaks back then to add lifespan well worth it today.


----------



## Osceola

Waif said:


> Designed to expand is always nice....
> 
> You using good guy stuff/more $$$for better quality may seem pricey now....But give it ten years.
> I use a simple shed for comparison and the cost is far greater today than a dozen years ago ,making the added expense of over building a foundation , and a couple other tweaks back then to add lifespan well worth it today.


Agreed. I would also add, this cabin is Phase 1 of a larger plan. At some point I hope to build a garage and retirement home on the site. This will become a guest cabin for children/grandchildren and friends.


----------



## stickman1978

Osceola said:


> I know it seems like heresy to not heat with wood in a hunting cabin, but a wood stove would take up a lot of space and temperature would be difficult to regulate. I will just use a small propane heater.
> 
> This place is ridiculously over-insulated to meet code (2x6 walls, R-49 in attic), so it won't take much to heat 300 square feet. I'm thinking my portable Buddy heater at 9,000 BTU might do it. If not, I have a 20,000 BTU.


The amount of space and the way u have it insulated I am sure it will heat up in no time with either heater.


----------



## sureshot006

Propane heater is the way to go. Some nice wall mounted units out there.


----------



## QDMAMAN

Osceola said:


> I know it seems like heresy to not heat with wood in a hunting cabin, but a wood stove would take up a lot of space and temperature would be difficult to regulate. I will just use a small propane heater.
> 
> This place is ridiculously over-insulated to meet code (2x6 walls, R-49 in attic), so it won't take much to heat 300 square feet. I'm thinking my portable Buddy heater at 9,000 BTU might do it. If not, I have a 20,000 BTU.



I hate to play Captain Obvious but be sure to provide adequate ventilation if you're using a self contained heater!


----------



## MossyHorns

QDMAMAN said:


> I hate to play Captain Obvious but be sure to provide adequate ventilation if you're using a self contained heater!


Exactly! Those little propane heaters will cause a lot of condensation in an air tight building plus the added CO. I would put in a small direct vent heater. A small RV type furnace would be nice. They are vented, powered by DC, have a thermostat, and can have ducts.


----------



## Trophy Specialist

Those vent free heaters are fine but they result is a moist and often musty cabin. I started with one in my small, well insulated cabin but eventually installed a wood stove which really improved the place.


----------



## sureshot006

We use a vented kerosine heater. Works great until you get a buildup of condensation that makes its way into the fuel line, or you get all stinky when refilling the tank. I think vented propane wall mount is the way to go... I agree that 300 sqft is too small for a wood stove. Aside from taking up what... 16sqft? you'd probably have windows open just to maintain comfort in winter.


----------



## Big CC

I’m pretty sure I have the Empire DV35 in my 20x30 living space in my barn. Maybe more than you need, but I definitely like it.
http://empirezoneheat.com/products/direct-vent-wall-furnaces/direct-vent-wall-furnaces/


----------



## 12Point

I have a Rinnai direct vent 28k BTU wall mount. Perfect for my 16x30x10 man cave. I go through roughly 175 gallons of propane/season. Keep it at 60 from Oct through May, and bump the temp up to high 60's or 70 when I'm out there. I have R13 walls and probably R25 in the attic space. Need to add more insulation in the attic.


----------



## 12Point

The heater is on the floor, bottom right. They don't take up much space. Definately recommend a direct vent over ventless


----------



## motdean

mattawanhunter said:


> Beautiful clean build, what a spot, going to be hard to pack up and go home!


No kidding!

One look at the site, and I was instantly looking to be a neighbor.


----------



## dabarra3

Looks good, what is the update on the original 20k estimated budget?


----------



## TriggerDiscipline

Osceola said:


> Well, no plumbing, so most people would still consider it "rustic".
> 
> It's occurred to me throughout the project I'm spending a lot of money on such a small structure. It may have been wise to go a little bigger since I was going through the expense and trouble, but I wanted it just big enough to meet my needs and I wanted no/low maintenance materials, which cost more. I also had to meet all applicable building codes, so I couldn't just put up a shack.


You should put in a composting toilet and solar power, then you will be living large.


----------



## Osceola

dabarra3 said:


> Looks good, what is the update on the original 20k estimated budget?


Would you believe I spent almost exactly 20K on the cabin? Unfortunately, I spent another 15K on the driveway, gate, sight prep, outhouse and storage shed.


----------



## Osceola

This will be the last update on my cabin. I received final approval and was told my certificate of occupancy is in the mail!

I'd like to thank all those who have shown interest in my project. Stay safe and shoot straight this season!


----------



## Swampdog467

It's been great following along! Sounds like now you get to enjoy the fruits of your labor!

Sent from my XT1585 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## uofmball1

Its a beautiful place that you have created. Im glad you were able to get it finished in time for hunting season so know you can enjoy it. Good luck this year!


----------



## GrizzlyHunter

You have a wonderful place that you built with your own hands. That’s a big, long term project and it came out great. I’m impressed at your planning, devotion and hard work. Great job!!

Thank you for taking us along with you during the construction phase. Have fun enjoying it now.


----------



## Luv2hunteup

Looks great. Now that you are pretty much complete any thoughts on what you should have done differently?


----------



## Osceola

Luv2hunteup said:


> Looks great. Now that you are pretty much complete any thoughts on what you should have done differently?


I've asked myself the same question and the only thing I wish I could have done differently is built the exterior walls with 2x4's instead of 2x6's. It would have saved a little money and given me a little more interior floor space. I was forced to use 2x6's to meet the code for insulation R-value. Everything else I would do over again, code or no code.


----------

