# turkey aday



## sidmh (Apr 29, 2009)

dnre at its best again fall turkey hunting 2 months long
an you can buy a tag aday until they run out. kiss your turkeys
good buy. thanks dnre 45,000 in area yy.


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## sidmh (Apr 29, 2009)

should be 45,000 turkey tags


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## michhutr (Jan 16, 2009)

do you think thats enough? some of us really like to hunt turkeys. better get ours now b4 they run out.


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## DEDGOOSE (Jan 19, 2007)

Wow the opportunity to purchase 77 tags


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## Ieatantlers (Oct 7, 2008)

Maybe the stupidest thing the DNR has ever done. And that is saying A LOT.


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## Mitchell Ulrich (Sep 10, 2007)

I really don't see any up side to this at all.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

Really, you can buy one tag a day till they're gone? Thank god there's no fall season up here...


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## beervo2 (May 7, 2006)

Ieatantlers said:


> Maybe the stupidest thing the DNR has ever done. And that is saying A LOT.


x2!!!!!

Mike


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## blood trail (Mar 31, 2010)

The even more sad thing about it is....there will be some guys that will go out and buy 10 or 12 tags and try and shoot as many birds!!!!!

Just cause the Do Nothin Right will allow it some guys will do it:sad:


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## DEDGOOSE (Jan 19, 2007)

blood trail said:


> The even more sad thing about it is....there will be some guys that will go out and buy 10 or 12 tags and try and shoot as many birds!!!!!
> 
> Just cause the Do Nothin Right will allow it some guys will do it:sad:


It will be interesting to gather purchase data from this year vs years prior.. Some states have similar regs and still have lots of birds.. 

How many serious fall hunters does this state have? I have to "believe" most are targets of opportunity and not the result of flushing, dogging, kee kee'ing, assembly yelping, gobbler yelping etc..


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## blood trail (Mar 31, 2010)

Your probably rite DEDGOOSE....

Fall turks are probbaly more targets of opportunity than an actual pursuit for most. They would be for me, but now that the season opens in mid Sept as opposed to the first week or so of Bow season that could/may change things and put some extra pressure on the birds this year?

I'm just not a big fan of the whole unlimited or extra high quota numbers placed on game species. More often than not we as hunters and I include myself in this statement don't/won't show enough reastraint to bag limits if the DNR allow us to shoot as much as we want. 

I just kinda feel like the DNR are allowing the lid to be left off the cookie jar and hoping every one keeps coming back and grabbing a handfull of cookies. To me it's a tad bit scary.


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## melvvin (Nov 21, 2007)

My spring season in Saginaw Co. was not very good and now this, what a joke. I guess I'll start saving my money and buy as many tags as I can and not use them. Who came up with this brilliant idea?


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## k9wernet (Oct 15, 2007)

What's laughable guys is that this is taking you all by surprise.

There have been 3-4 threads about this subject, and all throughout the spring season when this forum was at its peak.

The NRC discussed this at several meetings for months on end and rather than get involved, you start a thread to gripe about it after the fact.

TYPICAL MS BS. Aren't you guys missing out on some opportunity to whine in the whitetail forum?

KW


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## thongg (Jul 10, 2007)

spoke with the farmer where we hunt he is very happy that we will be able to shoot more than 1 bird we took 13 toms last spring out of 15 ppl hunting we hunt an area about 2 sq miles opening day there were 6 of us out by 1100 am we had seen over 180 birds none of us saw the same flocks we plan on 3 tags each shoot hens then we mount them for decoys for the spring will be FUN we hunt clinton county and eaton county


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

You are correct, everyone who this affects should have been much more involved than they were. 

In my case, there is no fall season up here this year, thankfully, so I paid no attention to the regs elsewhere-haven't even seen a fall guide yet.

But even so, this affects all of us who turkey hunt, so I should have paid more attention.


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## Sib (Jan 8, 2003)

I doubt this will seriously impact the areas that offer fall hunts. They've had multiple kill tags available in the fall for more than 25 years. It really doesn't matter if there are 2400 hunters or 35,000 hunters the quota stay the same. Anyone that's ever specifically set out to hunt turkeys in the fall realizes that you're virtually the lone turkey hunter for sections. 

45,000 birds divided by an area the size of 30+ counties = less than 1500 birds per county. Yes, I realize that the kill info doesn't have equal distribution, the comparison is just for size.

The area is roughly 35% of Michigan's 96,810 sq miles, about 33,884 sq miles and encompasses Michigan's best turkey habitat. That equals about 1.32 birds per sq mile maximum for YY. The actual success rate won't be 45,000 and again things aren't distributed equally, but you can see the number is pretty small once put into proper perspective/scale. Even once the minimal amount of public land in YY is removed I still don't see an issue.


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## Ieatantlers (Oct 7, 2008)

Sib said:


> I doubt this will seriously impact the areas that offer fall hunts. They've had multiple kill tags available in the fall for more than 25 years. It really doesn't matter if there are 2400 hunters or 35,000 hunters the quota stay the same. Anyone that's ever specifically set out to hunt turkeys in the fall realizes that you're virtually the lone turkey hunter for sections.
> 
> 45,000 birds divided by an area the size of 30+ counties = less than 1500 birds per county. Yes, I realize that the kill info doesn't have equal distribution, the comparison is just for size.
> 
> The area is roughly 35% of Michigan's 96,810 sq miles, about 33,884 sq miles and encompasses Michigan's best turkey habitat. That equals about 1.32 birds per sq mile maximum for YY. The actual success rate won't be 45,000 and again things aren't distributed equally, but you can see the number is pretty small once put into proper perspective/scale. Even once the minimal amount of public land in YY is removed I still don't see an issue.


Sure, that would make sense, if turkey were equally distributed throughout all of that area. I would be more worried on a local level. I know 4 different property owners that hunt one of my sections that I have permission on. If even one of those guys and his buddies buy as many tags as possible, they could make a serious, serious dent on the population in one fall. I mean, if you have some birds flock up early, a guy could wipe out 5 of them just emptying his gun in one sitting.


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## DEDGOOSE (Jan 19, 2007)

Sib said:


> I doubt this will seriously impact the areas that offer fall hunts. They've had multiple kill tags available in the fall for more than 25 years. It really doesn't matter if there are 2400 hunters or 35,000 hunters the quota stay the same. Anyone that's ever specifically set out to hunt turkeys in the fall realizes that you're virtually the lone turkey hunter for sections.
> 
> 45,000 birds divided by an area the size of 30+ counties = less than 1500 birds per county. Yes, I realize that the kill info doesn't have equal distribution, the comparison is just for size.
> 
> The area is roughly 35% of Michigan's 96,810 sq miles, about 33,884 sq miles and encompasses Michigan's best turkey habitat. That equals about 1.32 birds per sq mile maximum for YY. The actual success rate won't be 45,000 and again things aren't distributed equally, but you can see the number is pretty small once put into proper perspective/scale. Even once the minimal amount of public land in YY is removed I still don't see an issue.


This is pretty much my feelings as well.. 

I am taking the same wait and see attitude.. I mean the state could take the daily bag limit off of rabbits but are more people going to buy a small game license and go hunt rabbits..

We live in a state where deer hunting is king and many other fall outdoor recreation opportunities exist (waterfowl, upland, small game, fall fishing) etc I highly doubt this new law is going to contribute to a huge increase in license sales.. 

Could someone realistically wipe out a fall flock of birds.. Sure they could.. But lets say you have a flock of 25 birds on your property it is going to cost you 375 dollars to do so.. 

Could the bowhunter that shoots a turkey as an opportunity target wipe out a fall flock.. He may shoot 2 or 3 this year but it still gonna cost him 15 dollars each bird..


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

DEDGOOSE said:


> This is pretty much my feelings as well..
> 
> I am taking the same wait and see attitude.. I mean the state could take the daily bag limit off of rabbits but are more people going to buy a small game license and go hunt rabbits..
> 
> ...


We need to start selling turkey spinners for the fall hunt.


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## blizzak (Jan 8, 2009)

Looks like their not going to be happy until they have turkey hunting as skrewed up down state as they do up here.

As far as whineing now instead of going to the prior NRC meetings and trying to reason with the dictators. Pick your poison.:sad:


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

I would agree with you, as a lack of interest seems to be the problem in fall turkey hunting everywhere in this state, but a turkey a day may seem like a great opportunity for all those archery deer hunters to use as "targets of opportunity"-a nice term for "I'm bored, and there goes a flock of turkeys so let's see how many I can whack"...which is already a HUGE problem throughout this state. Tell them they can buy a turkey tag a day and they're not going to be as discriminating about how many and what they shoot when those flocks pass by. These guys aren't turkey hunting, they're target shooting, and our turkeys deserve to be treated much better than that. 

Personally, I've always been in favor of making it illegal to take a turkey while bow hunting for deer...forcing these guys to HUNT our wild turkeys in the fall, or leave them alone. Of course, that would never fly...but our turkeys deserve better than that. 

Again, I am much relieved we don't have a fall season up here, and with rules like that being passed elsewhere, they'll have a real fight on their hands before they open another fall season up here.


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## Ieatantlers (Oct 7, 2008)

Linda G. said:


> I would agree with you, as a lack of interest seems to be the problem in fall turkey hunting everywhere in this state, but a turkey a day may seem like a great opportunity for all those archery deer hunters to use as "targets of opportunity"-a nice term for "I'm bored, and there goes a flock of turkeys so let's see how many I can whack"...which is already a HUGE problem throughout this state. Tell them they can buy a turkey tag a day and they're not going to be as discriminating about how many and what they shoot when those flocks pass by. These guys aren't turkey hunting, they're target shooting, and our turkeys deserve to be treated much better than that.
> 
> Personally, I've always been in favor of making it illegal to take a turkey while bow hunting for deer...forcing these guys to HUNT our wild turkeys in the fall, or leave them alone. Of course, that would never fly...but our turkeys deserve better than that.
> 
> Again, I am much relieved we don't have a fall season up here, and with rules like that being passed elsewhere, they'll have a real fight on their hands before they open another fall season up here.


Turkeys deserve better than that? :lol: Like flushing them and calling them back and blasting them with a gun is a better treatment? Dead is dead. Just when I thought I had heard it all....


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## GoneFishin (Jan 11, 2001)

Think I'll take a wait and see attitude on this one.

Many a turkey die of natural causes or predatation throughout the winter and the numbers rise exponentially if it's a hard winter. 

Most sportsmen are involved in other activities such as waterfowl hunting, archery deer hunting, and/or small game hunting this time of year. Will they really take the time and effort to seriously hunt turkey when they have all this going on?

For the above reasons in the southern counties where birds are plentiful I doubt if the new rules will have much impact on turkey populations.


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## mcfish (Jan 24, 2010)

I thought that they should have been selling unlimited turkey licenses over the counter long ago for the spring as well as fall. We have turkeys coming out of the woodwork here in west michigan. I cant speak for the rest of the state, but they are to the point where they are a nuisance here.


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## Mightymouse (Sep 19, 2007)

How many perch can you catch a day? How many phesant, grouse or squirrels can you shoot each day? 

I know there are differences between a turkey and the species listed above but my point is just because the reg's say you can do something doesn't mean that people will go out and do it.

Look at the two buck tag situation with deer, people have 90 days of hunting time available to shoot two bucks and the vast majority of people who buy the combo don't fill both tags. 

Maybe its just me but I don't think we're looking at a Turkey Apocalypse here.


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## Mightymouse (Sep 19, 2007)

mcfish said:


> I thought that they should have been selling unlimited turkey licenses over the counter long ago for the spring as well as fall. We have turkeys coming out of the woodwork here in west michigan. I cant speak for the rest of the state, but they are to the point where they are a nuisance here.


 
I agree. 

I always found it interesting that you have to apply and if drawn can only get one turkey liscense in the spring (and you get a short season in which to use that tag) despite the fact that there are birds everywhere.

Then you look at the pheasant situation, hard to find a bird if you're not on a pheasant farm, but anyone with a small game liscense can go out and take 2 a day any and every day of the roughly 20-30 day long season.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Ieatantlers said:


> Turkeys deserve better than that? :lol: Like flushing them and calling them back and blasting them with a gun is a better treatment? Dead is dead. Just when I thought I had heard it all....


Time to mix in some turkey decoys with the goose spread.


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## DEDGOOSE (Jan 19, 2007)

Linda G. said:


> Personally, I've always been in favor of making it illegal to take a turkey while bow hunting for deer...forcing these guys to HUNT our wild turkeys in the fall, or leave them alone. Of course, that would never fly...but our turkeys deserve better than that.


 The only way in which you could do so is make the hunting of fall turkey by "calling only". I am quite sure PA the #1 state for Fall hunters and harvest has this law although their state website stinks..


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## Sportdog (Oct 6, 2005)

Well I won't pretend to speak for anyone except for myself. I believe that it is true that there are not a lot of hunters, relatively speaking, that target fall turkey. I always have a tag in my pocket in case the opportunity presents itself while I am deer hunting with my bow. Last year was the first time that I put down the bow, after numerous close encounters and pulled out my shotgun. I managed to take a bird the first night and it was back to chasing whitetails the next day. I will no doubt follow the same routine this fall regardless of the new multiple tag situation. As far as too many birds, I just don't see that where I hunt. So because of that, I have a negative opinion of the new regulations. I'm sure that if I hunted an area that was just loaded with birds I may feel differently. My personal belief is that it is a money grab for the MDNRE and if they see populations decreasing signifcantly, they will add some more restrictions. I just hope that it will not be too late and the flock gets so thinned out that it takes a very long time to recover. I could be wrong.......it has happened a time or two!:lol:


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## mab1980 (Jul 9, 2010)

maybe i m not really understanding this right...whats the difference between 45,000 people killing 45,000 turkeys...or 77 people killing 584 turkeys each. either way...its 584 dead turkeys. if people are worried about the turkey population, then stop shooting them. 

and arent the kill tags 15 bucks? so most people arent going to get more than two or three right? i probably would get three max...if the hunting was good.


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## Mitchell Ulrich (Sep 10, 2007)

mab1980 said:


> maybe i m not really understanding this right...whats the difference between 45,000 people killing 45,000 turkeys...or 77 people killing 584 turkeys each. either way...its 584 dead turkeys. if people are worried about the turkey population, then stop shooting them.
> 
> and arent the kill tags 15 bucks? so most people arent going to get more than two or three right? i probably would get three max...if the hunting was good.


...whats the difference between 45,000 people killing 45,000 turkeys...or 77 people killing 584 turkeys each. either way...its 584 dead turkeys. 

Lets say you hunt Grass Lake in the Southern Lower.

Now lets say you have a flock that wanders on and off your private land and onto very heavily hunted State land which surrounds your hunting ground.

Now lets say you already have a problem with trespassing. 

Add in unlimited reasons for people to keep coming back to the same area and it wont take long for that flock to get so hammered, and so shot up that it no longer remains a viable flock.

Do this for a year or two and your not going to have the hunting you once did.

Sometimes it feel like all 77 of those people who are trying to kill 584 Turkeys are all hunting around me!

Thats the problem...and I'm positive that I'm not alone.


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## timbrhuntr (Feb 4, 2009)

I usually don't comment on posts like this being a non-resident. However I must admit I am a little confused.  

First the season runs from Sept.15 to Nov.14 now and that would be 61 days. Does this mean that you can purchase a tag each day for 61 days or can you start buying on August 23 if in the draw ( potentially 85 tags) or Aug 30 if not in the draw (potentially 77 tags) whether you harvest a turkey or not or even hunt for that matter? Then on the 61st day go out and if a large flock walks by keep shooting until the smoke clears and then tag all the birds as long as there are not more than 61, 77 or 85 down 
Or do you have to harvest a turkey before you can buy the next tag. Or kill a turkey on the 15th by a tag on the 16th, kill a turkey the 16th buy a tag on the 17 etc. etc, 

I tried to read the info on the DNR site for the fall hunt changes but still not sure how the turkey tag a day works.:help:


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## k9wernet (Oct 15, 2007)

timbrhuntr said:


> I tried to read the info on the DNR site for the fall hunt changes but still not sure how the turkey tag a day works.:help:


My understanding is that after the initial draw you may purchase leftovers at a tag a day. Honestly I didn't read it that closely because I don't care that much.

My guess is that this will have little or no effect on turkey numbers. The Gung-ho fall turkey hunters just aren't there. With grouse and woodcock hunting, small game, pheasant, bow season, plus fall fishing opportunities (not to mention real-life obligations) -- I doubt we will see a dent.

... not that it will prevent a few Sour Suzies from getting on here and whining about bird numbers when they don't get their fall bird....

Sure, there might be one or two bozos who go out with a pocket full of tags (at $15 a pop) and try to wipe out a field of birds, but how successful do you think they'll REALLY be? How successful have YOU really been in your fall hunts? How many opportunities have you had to wipe out a field of birds?

As is, I could go out with five or ten of my buddies with a tag each and take down a small flock of birds if we wanted to. We don't though. Why? Cause we don't want to. We've got better things to do in the fall.

I think we'll see a few dedicated hunters take an extra bird and that's it.

The sky's not falling guys. Good move by the DNRE.

KW


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

If you call a purely political attempt to appease a handful of people, mostly farmers who are the only farmers in the area growing crops that turkeys LOVE, like oats and soybeans, and appeasing people who don't know anything at all about turkeys who think that the entire state is being over run by them because they see a few every day, a "good" move, that's your choice.

Not to mention if you don't mind that the DNRE is doing this as a money-making venture...which is NOT supposed to be a motivation of ANY state game agency...

well, more power to you...but the question is, what's next??

Just got my "personally autographed" by our state's gamebird "specialist" copy of the fall hunting digest in the mail, and noticed that Beaver Island is also included in this turkey a day stuff...after seeing that, they will have a REAL fight on their hands EVER putting on another fall season in Area J or anywhere else in northern lower Michigan where the public lands for hunting turkeys in the lower peninsula, are.

Beaver Island has a rotating population of approximately 600-1000 birds, the vast majority of them on very private lands, in subdivisions, on the golf course, and in town...most of the islanders believe they have too many. Well, they don't. They just have too many birds in the wrong places. This turkey a day thing won't do a thing for that problem over there, but we'll see what happens this fall. The way to manage those birds is NOT to issue practically unlimited licenses, which will only serve to further lower an already low population of birds on public land.

The way to manage those birds is to trap and transplant, or simply stop feeding the birds on the private lands, ESPECIALLY during mild winters like last winter....


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## timbrhuntr (Feb 4, 2009)

k9wernet said:


> My understanding is that after the initial draw you may purchase leftovers at a tag a day. Honestly I didn't read it that closely because I don't care that much.
> 
> 
> Sure, there might be one or two bozos who go out with a pocket full of tags (at $15 a pop) and try to wipe out a field of birds, but how successful do you think they'll REALLY be? How successful have YOU really been in your fall hunts? How many opportunities have you had to wipe out a field of birds?
> ...


First I will say I am not whinning as I am from Ontario and really don't like to stick my nose into how another jurisdiction manages their game. I will just go with their rules and enjoy the opportunity to hunt another place.

As for your reply I am not sure I understand your reasoning on this. If I had 2 deer tags and could fill them both on 2 does or a buck and a doe or fawn and doe (which I have done from the same stand one after the other in Ontario and with a bow) would I be a bozo ? If I did the same thing with a turkey am I really a bozo? Some states you can take 2 or 3 turkeys the same day and at the same time would I be a bozo if I did? Now in Michgan I can wack a bunch of birds and fill all my friends freezers. I would also add that the farm I hunt has over 100 turkeys flocked up there through the fall and winter. I believe they come there from all around the area to spend the winter.

As far as opportunity I have only been hunting fall turkey for 4 seasons. Every season so far I could have shot several turkeys at one sitting. In fact last year I had a group of 15 toms walk past my set up and I am sure I could have shot 4 or 5 of them easily in fact the hard part was waiting for them to seperate to take one.

I do like your optimism though and hope that everyone hunts as you do. For myself I love turkey hunting and this will give me the opportunity to take an extra bird and extend my hunt. I will not shoot multiple birds at the same time but will enjoy the opportunity to go out again after I have taken my first bird if I want to.


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## sidmh (Apr 29, 2009)

why dont dnre trap an move them north. $$$$$$$ i have a place in graying use to be unlimt does up there guess where i hunt now cass city. i now i can shoot a turkey aday but will take maybe one.


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## k9wernet (Oct 15, 2007)

timbrhuntr said:


> If I had 2 deer tags and could fill them both on 2 does or a buck and a doe or fawn and doe (which I have done from the same stand one after the other in Ontario and with a bow) would I be a bozo ? If I did the same thing with a turkey am I really a bozo? Some states you can take 2 or 3 turkeys the same day and at the same time would I be a bozo if I did?


Those are all borderline bozo moves in my opinion -- depending on the situation. I spend months pining away for the thrill of sitting in a deer stand or turkey blind. If it's opening day and the chance to fill two tags in one sit presents itself, you can bet I'll take only one shot. If it's my last hunt of the season, that may be a different story. Time in the field is worth more than meat in the freezer. Anyone who says different is a bozo. 



timbrhuntr said:


> I am sure I could have shot 4 or 5 of them easily in fact the hard part was waiting for them to seperate to take one.


Ok, but what happened after you shot? My guess is that you were looking at an empty field. Last spring we had two guns set up over the same decoy spread. Three birds came in, and you know how many we bagged? One. Part of it was bad planning and preparation on our part, but the other part was the fact that we blinked and those other two birds were gone. Plus, I'm only going to take a clean head shot on a bird, not shoot him up the pooper as he's running away.



timbrhuntr said:


> I will not shoot multiple birds at the same time but will enjoy the opportunity to go out again after I have taken my first bird if I want to.


That's how I expect most folks will approach it. If a person wants to fill his freezer with Turkey, it's cheaper and easier to grab a Butterball.

KW


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

k9wernet said:


> My guess is that this will have little or no effect on turkey numbers. The Gung-ho fall turkey hunters just aren't there. With grouse and woodcock hunting, small game, pheasant, bow season, plus fall fishing opportunities (not to mention real-life obligations) -- I doubt we will see a dent.


The harvest numbers validate your thoughts.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/report3500_285887_7.pdf

In 2008 16,300 turkey hunters killed roughly 5,000 birds. 31% success rate. The number of hens taken was 1,939. 

With 70% of hunters not getting a bird combined with the low number of hunters who have an interest in fall turkey hunting it would be very difficult for anyone to construct an objective case that the new regs will have a negative impact on the resource.


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## DEDGOOSE (Jan 19, 2007)

November Sunrise said:


> The harvest numbers validate your thoughts.
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/report3500_285887_7.pdf
> 
> ...


Nice to know


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## timbrhuntr (Feb 4, 2009)

I have read your responses to my posts and I must say I am a little confused. My original post was to ask if anyone could clarify for me some questions I have regarding the purchase of tags and the subsequent use of them under the new fall rules. 

Your initial response gave no insite or relevant information to my question. However for some reason you seemed to want to make this personal and about hunting ethics. I foolishly responded to your initial reply. Having read your second response it seems again that you want to make this personal and include name calling. I have no interest in debating hunter ethics or even the effect that these new rules will have on fall turkey hunting with you. As I stated earlier I am a non-resident and will hunt according to your states rules.

Still I am unsure as to the exact rule change as it applies to purchase of multiple tags and then in the use of those same tags. I thought that someone here might have some insite into that. I guess I will do what I should have done and contact the MDNR themselves for clarification.


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## k9wernet (Oct 15, 2007)

timbrhuntr said:


> Your initial response gave no insite or relevant information to my question.





timbrhuntr said:


> Does this mean that you can purchase a tag each day for 61 days or can you start buying on August 23 ...
> Or do you have to harvest a turkey before you can buy the next tag.





k9wernet said:


> My understanding is that after the initial draw you may purchase leftovers at a tag a day.





timbrhuntr said:


> it seems again that you want to make this personal and include name calling. I have no interest in debating hunter ethics or even the effect that these new rules will have on fall turkey hunting with you.


I apologize if being referred to as a "bozo" hurt your feelings. It was meant lightheartedly. Notice I wrote that I would do the same thing under certain circumstances.

My point was to the broader audience: I think it would be harder than one might think to clear a field with a shotgun -- especially if you take safe, ethical kill shots.

I don't think we'll see people clearing fields; I think we'll see a few dedicated individuals taking this opportunity to get out and hunt all season long -- taking maybe 2 or 3 birds if they're lucky.



timbrhuntr said:


> I will not shoot multiple birds at the same time but will enjoy the opportunity to go out again after I have taken my first bird if I want to.


That's what I expect most ethical lovers of this sport will do. I was never trying to pick a fight, man. I think you and I were saying the same thing.

KW


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## blizzak (Jan 8, 2009)

k9wernet said:


> My understanding is that after the initial draw you may purchase leftovers at a tag a day. Honestly I didn't read it that closely because I don't care that much.
> 
> My guess is that this will have little or no effect on turkey numbers. The Gung-ho fall turkey hunters just aren't there. With grouse and woodcock hunting, small game, pheasant, bow season, plus fall fishing opportunities (not to mention real-life obligations) -- I doubt we will see a dent.
> 
> ...


 Your refering to everyone being too busy hunting for the pheasants that used to be plentiful and huntable in much of Michigan. That hasn't been the case for decades, hasn't stopped the DNRE from offering one licence or shortening the season.

The grouse has been down for years, haven't seen the days or licence opportunities follow suit. Don't talk to me about cycles either, this would be the longest cycle in the history of grouse.

They're in the process of marketing the deer into the same scarceness.
You think this is good stuff, huh. We'll then from your vantage point this Turkey - a - day is probably quality management. I mean there are a few squerrels left in the state, and there are always warblers.


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## Sib (Jan 8, 2003)

blizzak said:


> Your refering to everyone being too busy hunting for the pheasants that used to be plentiful and huntable in much of Michigan. That hasn't been the case for decades, hasn't stopped the DNRE from offering one licence or shortening the season.
> 
> The grouse has been down for years, haven't seen the days or licence opportunities follow suit. Don't talk to me about cycles either, this would be the longest cycle in the history of grouse.
> 
> ...


The DNRE is the lightning rod for all outdoor things wrong in the state but many things entail much more circumstance than mismanagement. 

Pheasant, well farm practices have changed much from the hay day you don't see a lot of standing crops over winter. Not to mention pheasant is not a native species, which is something that most never consider when they bemoan Michigan pheasant hunting. Perhaps the species isn't best suited for our current land use and habitat?

Grouse, always depend on habitat and predation. Additionally, what's true in one area is not universally true in another. 2009 we had high grouse numbers, but then again the property was select cut in 2006 and knowing a bit about timber succession, the increase was expected.

Deer, again habitat is gonna be the key. Can't really compare the state's best deer habitat in the SLP to areas up North that severely lack winter browse. Minimal habitat allows nature to play a much larger role in deer numbers, be it weather, disease, or predation. 

The proposed area is private land which includes many areas rich in birds. I believe there is a correlation between stewardship and ownership. For the reasons listed above I don't see much impact by me. The road out front is going to take more birds than we'll tag on the 60 out back.


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## blizzak (Jan 8, 2009)

Sib said:


> The DNRE is the lightning rod for all outdoor things wrong in the state but many things entail much more circumstance than mismanagement.
> 
> Pheasant, well farm practices have changed much from the hay day you don't see a lot of standing crops over winter. Not to mention pheasant is not a native species, which is something that most never consider when they bemoan Michigan pheasant hunting. Perhaps the species isn't best suited for our current land use and habitat?
> 
> ...


 Although some of the reasons you cite are reasonable and true, it still doesn't change the facts. If you don't change the amount of game you are taking when the game becomes scarce you will wipe out the game. 

Even if your habitat scenario for pheasants is the reason for lower numbers. It is the DNRE's resposnsibility to recognize those lower numbers and pull back on licences/hunting dates to maintain the resource, if they can't correct the problem. Not stay the current path in the name of $$$$$$ and ride the resource into the ground.

We've had an unwaivering 2 month grouse season for how long? If the DNRE can keep up with habitat improvments to maintain a health grouse population, great. If their going to sell out the resource to maintain small game licence sales, like they have been, and manage for $$$$$ and the minority, they need to hold the lightning rod.

They want to turn Michigan into Kansas or Illinois in the Deer world, a lack of loyalty to Michigan's roots and no backbone by Michigan DNR personel, is why our NLP flock is suffering. *The DNRE built and established (with a lot of help) a flock in the NLP, then let a minority of QDM folks that didn't want baiters killing their 1.5 year old bucks, talk them into banning baiting in the name of disease and starving the flock to death.*

It's the same thing with the turkey aday. *There are protected sanctuaries that need this kind of killing. The ones you speak of (like yours evidently)that "the road out front is going to take more birds than we'll tag on the 60 out back".* Problem is this kind of unlimited licencing/3 month season is never going to touch this problem. It is going to generate short term $$$$$$ until the next resource is shot off surrounding the sanctuaries causing the problems, be it a city, a co-op, or individual property owner.

We're suppose to believe that we get the choice of the best college educated kids in the country every year, because of our vast natural resources, and they can't figure this elementry stuff out???? Politics are keeping those kids from doing their jobs.


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## james d (Jul 14, 2010)

This is my first post although I've been a visitor to this site for years. There are clearly a few common threads in the threads and one is that the dnr(e) is completely incompetant and/or beholden to some special interest. I'm no fan of allowing people to kill than more than one bird in the fall, although issuing 45,000 tags to 45,000 seperate hunters on private land in southern MI does not seem unreasonable. 

DNR employees who I've met seem to be sportsman who wanted to make a living outdoors and help with conservation. They seem neither incompetant nor evil. Given the competition for those jobs they are certainly academically qualified. 

Lets think for a moment about the abuse the dnr takes on this site. Half seems to be folks who don't think science is taken into account when making regs and the other half just seems to hate any potential gov't intrusion into their lives. There is clearly a problem with deer and turkey popluations being too low on public lands. Heck, I'd bet it would be tough to get a few geese in the Fall if I didn't have access to a piece of private land. I'm not sure how the dnr is supposed to address this, but it shouldn't be to remove all natural predation and feeding restrictions in order to create a population so high that game is pressed off its best/safest habitat and onto areas where anyone willing to walk 10 yards from his truck will get a shot off. It would be nice, but it would be catatstrophic in terms of winter die off. On the other hand the folks who just hate the dnr because they are a branch of gov't seem to be strait up poachers who don't want to be bothered by govt. (killing extra deer on the wife's tag, heading back out in the evening for a double walleye limit, a morning turkey grazing on the bait pile prior to fall seasons and baiting restrictions, ripping heavy spoons through the belly of a spawning steelhead etc.) Screw them. The dnr and its decisions are far from perfect and I frequently disagree with them, but I believe that they act in good faith and I've never been treated disrespectfully by a CO in the field.

I love hunting and fishing and regulation and enforcement is absolutely critical. We've all met people who just love to kill and frequently they are damn good at it. They are not stopped by ethics nor by conscience. They are (occasionally) stopped by force.

Lastly, when we as sportsman talk about killing coyotes and wolves because they are some kind of menace we are certainly not making friends or gaining respect from the non hunting community (who share ownership of the resource) That's my two cents. It won't make me popular, but I felt it needed saying.


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