# Making "The Thick Nasty"



## GrizzlyBear (Apr 27, 2003)

Now that the title got your attention, here is the scenario, blown way out of proportion of course just to make it interesting. The almight DNR has scoured the state for the most fantastic deer habitat creators in all of MI, and low and behold they've arrived here at M-S.com. 

Their goal is to come up with the best plan for turning an empty, tilled field into the thickest, nastiest deer bedding area known to man. The soil is black as night and the ph hovers around 6.5.

Although this is a fictional situation, the concerns should be real such as time, money, and materials. Think long term, as in this creation should be up and running, providing cover ASAP, but also sustain its thick nasty properties for years to come (row crops may be tough.) 

The responses from this post will probably be implemented in some shape or form on our property. I'm sure I will get some great suggestions. And for your effort, the best plan will win 1 million dollars, (just go to lansing and ask for it, tell them I sent you :lol: ) 1 turkey sandwich, and a free bowl of soup.  

-GB


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## Andy (May 20, 2004)

plant 5-6 ft. pine trees (or as mature as possible with money available) and plant them close together filling as much of the tilled field as possible. Do not mow in between the pinetrees and if anything add brush from other portions of the property to the interior of the pine tree maze. Everytime you have a brush pile, take the time to fill in and around the pine trees with the brush. That's about the quickest way I can think of making some dense cover for deer. You could also plant in between the pinetrees with some sort of switchgrass.

andy


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

My answer depends on climate. What county?

Next question: what is growing there now?


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## bishs (Aug 30, 2000)

If I wanted a thick nasty area, I would use these trees.
Norway or white spruce, autum olive and speckled alder. None of these will be browsed by deer, unless they are starving. The autum olive and speckled alder grow fast. AA grows best in well drained areas, the speckled alder will grow in dry or wet but will grow faster in lower areas. Norway grows a little faster than white. There limbs will grow densely into each other and retain their lower limbs with age. I have 10 year old Norway spruce, white spruce, Autumn Olive. I have 4 year old Speckled alder.


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## brokenarrow (Oct 6, 2003)

Bishes
I agree 100% with the alder and olive. Now if you really want a mess for free? Come on up by me and I will let you dig up ALL the iron wood you want along with my blue beach. Once you get that growing about 2 feet apart you will have a winner.


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## mike hartges (Jun 9, 2003)

Since you want it thick and NASTY, throw in some wild raspberry and multiflora rose. These will tear the shirt off your back but the deer will bed in there because no sane hunter will venture into a thicket of this stuff. My best buck bedding area is loaded with black raspberry and a mixture of 10 year old pines and spruces. The bedding area is a bit elevated from the surrounding ground so the bucks can use the wind currents for protection from predators. I consistently find bucks bedding in elevated areas on my property. I also planted lots of what Bishs planted.


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2004)

Great advice so far, except the guy with the busted arrow and I think I know why he gave his advice. Blue beech and iron wood are useless trees to deer except the few times beechnuts are available. They will take over your area because deer don't touch the stuff. 

Broken Arrow that was a very deceptive act on your part to get rid of the trees you do not want on your property and for free. 

I need to remember your devious suggestion when I want to get rid of the prickly ash growing rampant in some areas of my land. 

Any takers out there? It's great cover and impossible for man to travel through. It will literally rip your clothing to pieces even Levi jeans, but the deer love the plant.


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## diamoma1 (Jul 7, 2000)

I have a similar task on my property come spring time. After logging completes this winter I'm planting White and Norway Spruce. Got a buddy that has a stand of whites that was planted years ago for Christmas trees. They were never harvested. That area is so thick that you can barley get through the area carwling on your belly. And your lucky if you can see farther than 6 feet. But man does it ever hold the deer!


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

Ed Spin04 said:


> I need to remember your devious suggestion when I want to get rid of the prickly ash growing rampant in some areas of my land.


Prickly Ash is a truly nasty plant. I've got plenty of it. I find that it usually is found in spots a bit wetter or more poorly drained than where I find Black Raspberry(a plant that I like).

I was told by a forester that Henry Ford planted Prickly Ash around the perimeter of his Fairlane estate, for security reasons. No doubt it was effective.


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## brokenarrow (Oct 6, 2003)

ROTFLMAO
ED Spin
Dont worry, I would never let someone dig those nasty invading things for transplant! You did catch on real fast! The only good thing about them (if your not afraid to cut ALOT) is they burn around 25K btu. Hard as heck on a blade and extremely usless unles your a deer looking for something to lay in. Most people dont go into that area for that reason most tree rats dont either.
I like the rasberry idea along with many many others here. Only thing is that it takes a heck of alot of work to do what your talking about. Nothing like a big storm to make a natural bedding area after regeneration starts!
Good luck what ever you do!


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## mike hartges (Jun 9, 2003)

I was fortunate that all my black raspberry is from natural regeneration in what was a soybean field 10 years ago. As a bonus, I pick the raspberries in late summer.


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

We are looking at improving the cover on our property up north near Baldwin area. We do have a lot of ironwood and the soil is well drained. Should we eliminate the ironwood and get rid of all the mature poplar trees? Then do we let it grow with the added sunlight or do we plant things to quicken the process up a bit? What do we plant if we do.

AW


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## bishs (Aug 30, 2000)

It would be much faster and more effective to do some cutting. Cutting down the large trees will allow sunlight to the forest floor, and you will get a "burst" of new growth. Aspen sprouts vigorously after clear cutting from lateral roots. Best if done when the ground is frozen. You can also girdle large trees to kill them, and allow sunlight in. I have planted thousands of seedlings, because I started with farm fields. Its a long road, dealing with weed control and deer and rabbit browsing.


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## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

bishs said:


> Its a _*long road*_, dealing with weed control and deer and rabbit browsing.


Man 'O man have you said it - :yikes: preach it [email protected][email protected]

Secession of 'old fields' is a bitch - my plantings have been a mixed bag - but I keep pouring in the cubic dollars in hopes that one day, one day -  


ferg....


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## GrizzlyBear (Apr 27, 2003)

FL,
The property is in Huron County, Just east of Port Austin. It was a large "stubble" field, but we plowed and disced a large L shape around the perimeter. This was originally going to be planted in corn as a visual block and bedding area, to be left standing through the winter. 

However, we have now revised our habitat improvement plans entirely in an effort to reduce or eliminate some of our previous annual plantings. Basically, after last year's intensive season, we need to cut back on the # of man hours our plans require. 

Thanks for all the great responses so far. I had only known 1 tree that would definitely be included in the mix, the norway spruce, as many of you reiterated. I also had a strong suspicion autumn olive would come into play. The raspberry and multiflora rose are also a great idea, although planting them doesn't sound like a Saturday I'll be looking forward too. 

BrokenArrow, 
I'll come and get some of the Ironwoods off your property if you eliminate all the vines that make trimming shooting lanes so exciting. I consider vines my arch nemesis of the natural world, and have personally taken an oath to eradicate them, or anything that resembles them. :help: If you take me up on my offer, I'll be at your cabin next week, with 2 dozen sharpened blades for my chainsaw.

Keep the responses coming, I'll be printing this thread and taking it to our next meeting, where the upcoming year's schedule will be made.


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## steveboss (Sep 4, 2002)

Nothing grows faster than AA I use them and they are working great. Pines just don't grow as fast.


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## bishs (Aug 30, 2000)

Grizzly, you are right on with the Norway Spruce, after planting, many different species for the last 10 years they are my favorite. They grow fast, offer incredible cover and screen and they are not browsed! Avoid planting them in the wet areas.

The AA is hard to beat for fast growth on well drained soil. Speckled Alder grows just as fast, and it grows anywhere but really likes moist areas. I woudl use them for wet spots. The Norways grow slow ths first couple years, then they take off. My trees grow 2 foot a year. 

I use a backpack sprayer and spray around my seedlings the first couple years. I also put 3 foot square plastic around some of them, if I don't wish to spray. The plastic is cheap, and easy to apply if you are planting in a farm field. I use a heavier ply plastic, then fold the corners over to get double thickness and pin them down with wire staples or nails, or just ad dirt.


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

I'll agree with the recommendations so far except for the MF Rose. My experience with this terrible plant goes back to our days back East when many of the SGA in NY,NJ, and PA were heavily planted with MF years ago. It was touted as a wonderful "living fence", great for all sorts of wildlife, etc ,etc. Some dairy farmers planted it as well, much to their horror later on.

It grew completely out of control and took over entire fields and pastures. It was impossible to keep in a fencerow. Birds spread the seed everywhere. Nothing could get thru it, even Beagles. :yikes: I probably still have some scars fronm the stuff.  Brush hogging couldnt control it and neither did RoundUp. The thorns are so long and sharp they can puncture tractor tires. MFR is now illegal to plant in many states (MI???) I'd caution anyone against that evil plant.


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## fairfax1 (Jun 12, 2003)

I'd look first to those three. I know the MR & AO are considered 'noxious'...but they sure help the wildlife on our land. All wildlife....deer, rabbits, songbirds, pheasants, racoons, woodchucks ...all can be found near the MF thickets. I can't say that I see many turkeys around them though.

I read once an Audobon tactic for planting what birds like: clear and till a strip of soil, then string a wire the length of the strip. The birds will stop on the wire, make a deposit of whatever seeds were in their digestive tract at the time, and then move on. Presto, pronto, you've got a seeded seedbed...slightly fertilized too. I'd think that that trick has got to be good for a rasberry patch.


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## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

fairfax1 said:


> I read once an Audobon tactic for planting what birds like: clear and till a strip of soil, then string a wire the length of the strip. The birds will stop on the wire, make a deposit of whatever seeds were in their digestive tract at the time, and then move on. Presto, pronto, you've got a seeded seedbed...slightly fertilized too. I'd think that that trick has got to be good for a rasberry patch.


That would make for interesting planting :yikes: 

I like the idea and think I'll give that a go in the early sping - will neet to see what pops up in that little field....

ferg....


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## brokenarrow (Oct 6, 2003)

```
have personally taken an oath to eradicate them, or anything that resembles them.
```
 If "man" hours need to be reduced, the idea about natural regenuration is a good one. Although in my eye's I dont think I would ever want to take out "good" trees that will eventually turn into a great wood lot. My 40 acre patch of "thick and nasty" It was started by mother nature. Although It is a love/hate relationship I would not ever of tried to create this. Infact soon I will need to head into it and clear around any of the new growth trees like Oaks and maple. 
"cutting back on man hours" You said a mouthful!! with that statement. For 19 year I have been traveling 5 hours to my get-a-way. Every time I go all it seems I ever do is work, even during gun season some years. It is time to start enjoying the place a bit more, get the fishing poles out and dust them off, mybe even utilize one of the staes 4-wheeler trails with the kids during the summer months. I too am considering cutting back a bit. With one plot only needing a frost seeding this spring, and anouther plot being the only acre and a half that needs a new crop in this year, I just may be able to enjoy anouther form of relaxation (besides habitat improvement) this year,
(Now what was that other project Hmmm)


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## GrizzlyBear (Apr 27, 2003)

BrokenArrow,
Yes, the amount of labor hours definitely needs to be reduced around camp. Last year, between April and the beginning of archery season, I spent a total of 4 weekends NOT at the farm, normally working 8-10 hours a day. We are trying to alter our habitat improvement plans in an effort to shift many of our fields from annuals to perennials or even trees. We will still have 3 or 4 small "hunting" plots, but they will no longer be one of the primary draws on our most precious resource, time. 

The amazing thing, we have a boat in the local harbor fully rigged for salmon. Never used it once last year. Great bass fishing only 15 minutes away in the spring, never casted a line. Morel mushrooms all over in the spring, never had time to look for one. Don't get me wrong, the food plotting and other habitat work has all been worth it. Simply a little too draining and time consuming. Next year, we'll only be biting off what we can chew. Oh well, live and learn. 
In fact, I already have a whole weekend planned for next year. It consists of a lawn chair parked right in the middle of our IW clover field, my chocolate lab, and about 2 cases of Canada's finest.  Ahhhhh, the simple things. Can't wait!!!


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