# dead steelhead



## nitski (Apr 20, 2012)

was at tippy yesterday and was very unhappy to see all the dead fish pinned to the cyclone fence below the over flow gates at tippy dam. what a shame.


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## homerdog (Nov 11, 2003)

What's the purpose of the cyclone fence?


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## nitski (Apr 20, 2012)

I think to keep people out


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## glucas (Aug 27, 2013)

Were they fresh fish or Red's


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## LunkerMan (Jan 4, 2013)

That is a shame. Not good at all...


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## EMPIRE (Jan 31, 2008)

I spoke with Mark at DNR fisheries division today. He said they were aware of the dead fish on the fence situation and would be having a meeting with Consumers to make sure it doesn't happen again. He said the dead fish count was about 114, and likely higher, still some fish trapped up there that need to be removed. If they need a fence up there to keep the idiots, I recommend they get one high enough to keep the fish out as well.


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## Hockey9019 (Feb 28, 2008)

My brother in law went over there and said it was really bad. 

Someone sent Mike Avery pictures and he apparently posted it


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Before that fence was put up, I saw anglers walking out on the apron of the dam every spring. The guys who operate the dam would come out and shoo them off, but it happened many times each day, despite signs being posted that walking on the dam was off limits. Too many idiots caused Consumers to take further action by installing that fence. The first time there was a real high water event, after the fence was put in, it blew the fence right off the dam. 

It really is a shame that a very small minority of people caused Consumers to have to take the action of installing that fence; but I have to say it was needed. I absolutely don't like the idea of Steelhead getting killed on it, but people's lives are more important than the lives of Steelhead. Even though the people are morons. :lol:

I remember a summer high water event a long time ago, that brought TONS of Skamanias up over that apron, when floodgates were opened. When the gates were shut down, a lot of fish stayed up in the pool below the gates (above the apron), which is actually VERY deep. You could see all the dorsals and tailfins in that pool, and guys were sneaking up there to fish and snag Skams. After a couple days the DNR used a net to get the fish out of there, and they captured something like 600 Steelhead that were stuck in that pool. They were able to release those fish back into the river above the coffer dam, and they were available to sportsmen, again. 

I'm sure what happened this week was that the force of the water pushed the bottom of the fence out, which allowed fish to swim past it. Then they got pushed up against the fence by the force of the water, and were killed. I suppose there might be a way to fasten the bottom of the fencing to the apron of the dam, but with enough force it will still get blown out. There was a lot of force from water this week.


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## msfcarp (Jun 6, 2006)

Fishndude said:


> Before that fence was put up, I saw anglers walking out on the apron of the dam every spring. The guys who operate the dam would come out and shoo them off, but it happened many times each day, despite signs being posted that walking on the dam was off limits. Too many idiots caused Consumers to take further action by installing that fence. The first time there was a real high water event, after the fence was put in, it blew the fence right off the dam.
> 
> It really is a shame that a very small minority of people caused Consumers to have to take the action of installing that fence; but I have to say it was needed. I absolutely don't like the idea of Steelhead getting killed on it, but people's lives are more important than the lives of Steelhead. Even though the people are morons. :lol:
> 
> ...


Part of the reason for the fence also is to keep the fish out, when the fish do get up there and the water goes down Consumers has to capture and release any fish that are in there. That is costly and time consuming, they have to pump the tumble bay down enough to catch them with a net, it is 12 feet deep.

Some of the fish you will see on the fence will be from the pond, suckers, bass and walleyes that get caught in the initial opening of the gates. By the way, steel and salmon can vault the fence, I have seen it.


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## Hockey9019 (Feb 28, 2008)




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## RiverRat22 (May 19, 2010)

Just curious when were the fences out in?


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## zig (Aug 5, 2009)

I wonder why they didn't put up a different type of fence. I mean, between agriculture and various marine industries, there are dozens if not hundreds of different types of fence that could serve the purpose of that one, without the fish kill. Although I suppose if the force of the water was great enough, they would get pinned, but not trapped??


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## EMPIRE (Jan 31, 2008)

Seems like plenty of solutions which would keep people out, and either let the fish out, or keep them out to start with. Hopefully they can get something resolved before the next high water event leads to more fish kills. Thanks for the pics...


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## Reel_Screamer86 (Mar 22, 2007)

EMPIRE said:


> Seems like plenty of solutions which would keep people out, and either let the fish out, or keep them out to start with. Hopefully they can get something resolved before the next high water event leads to more fish kills. Thanks for the pics...


Glad i don't fish at that "zoo"


Sent from my bloody fingertips


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## GVDocHoliday (Sep 5, 2003)

Largest high water event in my 31yrs.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

GVDocHoliday said:


> Largest high water event in my 31yrs.


A few years ago in the summer it was blowing over 8,000 cfs, after a severe storm dumped something like 6 inches of rain overnight. The water was up onto the steps on the south side at the coffer. It didn't stay that high for very long, but it was the highest water I've ever seen there. This years is as high as I've seen the water in springtime.


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## leonard2 (Jan 12, 2014)

I think Consumers should have to pay for all the dead fish. If anyone of us potched those fish we would be fined. I mean my fishing licenses helps pay for those fish and to see them killed because someone made a bad decision on a fence is no excuse. They could have made it so the bottom 1/3 was open so the fish wouldn't get hung up. not only are those fish dead but so are all the offspring they would have made.


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## riverbob (Jan 11, 2011)

leonard2 said:


> I think Consumers should have to pay for all the dead fish. If anyone of us potched those fish we would be fined. I mean my fishing licenses helps pay for those fish and to see them killed because someone made a bad decision on a fence is no excuse. They could have made it so the bottom 1/3 was open so the fish wouldn't get hung up. not only are those fish dead but so are all the offspring they would have made.


 I agree they should of had their thinking cap,s on when the fence was being built. But I think the high water will save a few fish from the hook, but lose more dew to a poor spawn. ( I'm just thinkin that,a fish guy would know more)


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## bowhunter42 (Aug 22, 2012)

Lose 2-300 steelhead? Or in a normal year theres guides and fishermen ripping fish off every redd they can find? 
Alot of fish came up and were out fast, thanks to the high flows.

Sent from my SM-G730V using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## leonard2 (Jan 12, 2014)

The rivers flood every year some years are worse than others and the fish always spawn and reproduce new offspring. 114 or more fish killed by poor planning is no excuse just as if I were to keep a short fish and told the DNR I didn't know the size they would tell me ignorance is no excuse. Just as is the poor planning on the fence they put up. Those fish make that run every year so you can tell me that they didn't know.


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## JSBowman (Nov 17, 2013)

leonard2 said:


> I think Consumers should have to pay for all the dead fish. If anyone of us potched those fish we would be fined. I mean my fishing licenses helps pay for those fish and to see them killed because someone made a bad decision on a fence is no excuse. They could have made it so the bottom 1/3 was open so the fish wouldn't get hung up. not only are those fish dead but so are all the offspring they would have made.


Or maybe all the trespassing idiots should have to pay for them since they were the ones who forced Consumers to put the fences up in the first place.


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## leonard2 (Jan 12, 2014)

I do agree with that thought but you can agree they should have used a better desighn for a fence.


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## JSBowman (Nov 17, 2013)

"It really is a shame that a very small minority of people caused Consumers to have to take the action of installing that fence; but I have to say it was needed. I absolutely don't like the idea of Steelhead getting killed on it, but people's lives are more important than the lives of Steelhead. Even though the people are morons. :lol:"

It's more likely that they put the fences up to protect their bank roll, not the morons who refuse to follow the rules. Then they try to sue Consumers because they got injured on the property while trespassing. I don't understand why so many are out to protect stupid people. I say we start handing out some more Darwin awards, and let the morons cull themselves from the population.


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## Wylan (Mar 12, 2012)

Personally I feel this area should be open to fishing, and of course this would mean the fence and the no trespassing sign would be removed. As was stated many time in this post this event of the fish being trapped in there is a rare occasion.
why not instead of installing the fence and killing the fish trapped in there just go ahead and let people fish there? Its all below the dam and fish which all of us pay for thru licenses go up there so as far as Im concerned take down the no trespassing signs!

btw I have never fished in that area and wouldnt because of the signs, but this fence thing is unacceptable!!


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## rico1391 (Dec 12, 2007)

For all you that are throwing a fit, let's be real. Losing around 100 fish in a rare event isn't that big of a deal. How many fish do you think are kept in a day within sight of the dam? Anyone using common sense would consider this an acceptable loss.


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## JVoutdoors (Sep 23, 2013)

jsbowman said:


> "It really is a shame that a very small minority of people caused Consumers to have to take the action of installing that fence; but I have to say it was needed. I absolutely don't like the idea of Steelhead getting killed on it, but people's lives are more important than the lives of Steelhead. Even though the people are morons. :lol:"
> 
> It's more likely that they put the fences up to protect their bank roll, not the morons who refuse to follow the rules. Then they try to sue Consumers because they got injured on the property while trespassing. I don't understand why so many are out to protect stupid people. I say we start handing out some more Darwin awards, and let the morons cull themselves from the population.


You got it. And rico 1391. Snaggers and flossers kill that many in a good weekend. Poop happens and you cannot protect everything from every bad thing. I say let let the tresspassers on the apron and open the gates with no warning. Clean up the gene pool that way!


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## msfcarp (Jun 6, 2006)

rico1391 said:


> For all you that are throwing a fit, let's be real. Losing around 100 fish in a rare event isn't that big of a deal. How many fish do you think are kept in a day within sight of the dam? Anyone using common sense would consider this an acceptable loss.



Yea, that in spades^^^^^^^^^

Consumers bends over backwards to try to make everybody happy, the FERC, customers, sportsman, state of michigan, the DNR, you name it. I have been working on their facilities since 1992, i have seen it and dealt with it, including the endangered brown bats that hibernate inside tippy in the winter.

Also, for everyones info, one of the spillgates will open automatically in case of an outage to keep flow to the river, what would happen to someone on the spillway apron then? Then Consumers would be the dumbasses for allowing people up there, or keeping the river flowing, give me a break.

I think a lot of people should go with out electricity for awhile and see how they like that.


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## MontcalmCounty (Apr 1, 2013)

leonard2 said:


> I think Consumers should have to pay for all the dead fish. If anyone of us potched those fish we would be fined. I mean my fishing licenses helps pay for those fish and to see them killed because someone made a bad decision on a fence is no excuse. They could have made it so the bottom 1/3 was open so the fish wouldn't get hung up. not only are those fish dead but so are all the offspring they would have made.


I don't know about paying for it, but I could see them looking into a different type of fencing.


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## tannhd (Dec 3, 2010)

Maybe we should fine the trees and their roots too. I see dead fish stuck in root systems when the water crests over the line and into the woods. C'mon guys. It's a fence put up to keep the idiots out that doesn't affect the yearly return. It's not like every year there are fish caught in it. No disrespect, but those fish getting caught is out of the norm. It doesn't seem illogical or unreasonable to have the fence there.


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## Falesy (Oct 9, 2008)

msfcarp said:


> Yea, that in spades^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Consumers bends over backwards to try to make everybody happy, the FERC, customers, sportsman, state of michigan, the DNR, you name it. I have been working on their facilities since 1992, i have seen it and dealt with it, including the endangered brown bats that hibernate inside tippy in the winter.
> 
> ...


Yeah that ! &#128515;

That many steelies pry die every year anyways from the stress of the spawn. It's not gonna drastically harm the population this year or for future year classes. I think people would be surprised by how many fish are there that they don't know about, that don't bite , or that they can't see. 

Maybe we should go on a witch hunt and start shooting every Eagle that we see pulling fish outta the river too. It's Mother Nature she balances herself out.


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## fishinfever (Feb 14, 2005)

msfcarp said:


> Yea, that in spades^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Consumers bends over backwards to try to make everybody happy, the FERC, customers, sportsman, state of michigan, the DNR, you name it. I have been working on their facilities since 1992, i have seen it and dealt with it, including the endangered brown bats that hibernate inside tippy in the winter.
> 
> ...



Don't let common sense creep into this argument! :evilsmile


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## cantcatchemall (Jan 16, 2014)

This is my first time replying to any thread on this site. If consumers had to put a fence up to protect there dam or people from getting hurt or killed from the dam that they make millions off fine. When that dam starts to kill fish or the habitat then they should be held responsible. Just like everyone on this site is held responsible for what the do whether by accident or or not. Msfcarp consumers should bend over backwards that's the least they could do.


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## fishagain (Jan 2, 2014)

Some of you guys don't sound like Michigan steel head fisherman more like California 'surfer dudes'. Move out there and save the salmon. Give me electricity any day. Sheeeeesh?:sad:


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Although it is a shame you should see all of the fish that freshwater intakes kill at nuclear power plants. I am sure the freshwater intakes at many other plants kill their share of fish also.


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## nighttime (Nov 25, 2007)

Sucks too see, but s--- happens. Thank god dnr stocks them, that why we have the number that we do in most rivers. Now I'm sure the big man has many natural repo's, but the steelhead fishery is here because of stocking these non native fish. Funny thing is in the south east part of Michigan where I live and fish 90%of the time, people will get pissed of if you put one on a stringer, I find that silly since I pay for a license. 

Consumers should fix the fence I agree but fines I'm not sure of that, I would be more worried the people and their trash that ends up in the river and the abuse that steelheaders do to the river banks.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Absolutely there are literally millions of Steelhead hatched in the Big Man, every year. However the river gets far too warm for them (80* +) every summer, so there is virtually no chance those fish will survive the necessary year before they smolt. The Little Man has a LOT of successful natural reproduction, and plenty of "wild" fish from that river stray into the Big every year. But stocking is what keeps good numbers of fish in that river. Those dead Steelhead won't hurt the numbers of naturally spawned Steelhead returning to the Big Man one bit. 

What would be a better fence to keep trespassers off that apron, and still allow flood waters through it, than chain-link?


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

You should see the fish kill when the USFWS does lamprey control. I have counted dead fish by the thousands. They don't seem to care how many fish that they kill in the process.


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## wintrrun (Jun 11, 2008)

Fishndude said:


> What would be a better fence to keep trespassers off that apron, and still allow flood waters through it, than chain-link?


Five posted signs 4' x 8' with big letters stating " access,trespassing or occupation in any manner upon this apron will result in your incarceration. Include a thank you for visiting Manistee county.... Come up on vacation, go home on probation.

Then alls you have to worry about is putting a slotted gate on the pit with the ability to raise and lower on the log chute side.

Not rocket science.


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## foxfire69 (Sep 10, 2006)

Fishndude said:


> "What would be a better fence to keep trespassers off that apron, and still allow flood waters through it, than chain-link?"


"Electric barb wire fencing"?? JUST KIDDING!! One still wonders if there is truly a need to "Protect" those that are willing to risk reward!!


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## danimalt14 (Aug 30, 2012)

foxfire69 said:


> "Electric barb wire fencing"?? JUST KIDDING!! One still wonders if there is truly a need to "Protect" those that are willing to risk reward!!


No need to protect idiots in my book- Its called natural selection.:evil:
.


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