# 11 plus years with wolves in MI



## Zorba

I saw my first wolf In Jan 1990 on an island in the St. Mary's. It was chasing a deer, and there was no mistaking what it was. I saw it just after the local paper ran a story that said " DNR study finds no wolves in the EUP".

That was 21 years ago. Who knows how long wolves had been present on that island before I saw one?

Guess what? There are still deer on that same Island. And that island, with 21 plus years of wolves on it probably still has the same amount of deer on it as it did back then.

Wolves are not the end of the world for deer hunters. Although they eat their share of deer, they also eat other critters. And lets be realistic. If the DNRE issues permits to take wolves in MI How many permits do you think they will issue? Enough to get rid of them. 

The fact is there will always be wolves in MI from now on. And we better get used to it.


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## .480

Only until a wolf takes down a person.

Then it will be open season and no wolf will be safe.

If they want to keep some wolves around they had better open up a season before any people get hurt.
The wolves up here are losing their fear of humans.


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## Luv2hunteup

Even if you issued a wolf tag with every UP deer tag sold I don't think you could shoot them off. Now trapping would be a different story. Russ Mason has already stated the UP has ten times the population required to sustain it's species. 

A wolf season could really generate alot of income for the DNR. I'm sure that there would be more demand than tags available.


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## DRHUNTER

You can't compare an island with the mainland. The Isle Royal experiment with wolves and moose has proven that each spieces go through cycles of population domination. The wolves kill until the moose population is to low to support the number of wolves then the wolves kill each other off until only enough are left to survive, the moose repopulate and on and on. On an island this is controlled because they are all captive on the island. On the mainland the wolves will just continue to overpopulate and spread to other areas to decimate their prey. When food gets scarce they range farther and farther. The UP is over populated and now wolves are ranging into the lower. They are intelligent critters that will sooner or later have to be controlled by man. Unfortunetly some people will have to get hurt or worse before our government agencys will act. Common sense is not part of the governments thought process.


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## yoopertoo

I posted these over in the deer hunting forum recently. They are interesting.
Wildlife agents encourage wolf precautions
http://www.marbut.com/wolvesinrussia/


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## uptracker

Why start a wolf season? People are already shooting more wolves then they would give out permits. I believe that's how the DNRE and USFWS feels anyways..."people are already harvesting them at record numbers, we don't even need to start a season".

I do agree that wolves aren't the end of the world. I've hunted whitetails two places out of state that had way more wolves than we have here. One place had 3,500 just in the NE part of their state. I heard wolves all day every day while hunting there and saw numerous tracks, a lot more tracks than anywhere in the UP. That area also had a huge population of moose....they would follow you through the woods once they heard you. 

Southeastern Canada's wolf population far exceeds MI's (or the upper midwest altogether for that matter) and look at the deer they shoot. I have a buck pole photo from 2006 in Canada that has 18 bucks on it from a week of hunting. We went 18 for 21 that year on quality deer and the wolves were thicker than black flies in the area. Funny thing is, there were no other big game in the area other than bear, so I know they didn't have their pick of a diet. It was either whitetails, beaver or other small mammals.


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## Zorba

.480 said:


> Only until a wolf takes down a person.
> 
> Then it will be open season and no wolf will be safe.
> 
> If they want to keep some wolves around they had better open up a season before any people get hurt.
> The wolves up here are losing their fear of humans.


 
This already happen. An hour North of the Sault. Katherine's Cove on Lake Superior a young child was grabbed by a wolf and started to drag it away by his hoody right infront of the childs family. The grandma and the mom had to fight the wolf off the child. They got all cutt up in the process but saved the child.

People in the EUP have lost the pets and live stock. Would anyone feel any better if it was a bear or cougar?

A couple of years ago, a doctor was killed and her husband mauled by a bear only a couple hours north of the Sault by a bear. Why is it when its a wolf people get all excited about it? 

We now live in wolf, cougar, and bear country. I do not think people should be scared to go in the bush. But, people need to be aware.


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## Zorba

I have a cabin that I go to fishing a few times a year 3 hours north of the Sault in Ontario. Right in the heart of Moose, bear, Cougar, and Wolf Country. Seeing a Deer up there is unheard of. Over the last 10 years, due to the milder winters, the locals have been seeing Whitetails. Not many. But, thier range has been expanding North in a place where they couldn't survive before.

If wolves kill that many deer, how could this happen in a place where deer preaditors out number deer? Out numbered by Wolves, Cougar, Bear, Bobcats, Lynx and the Deer still survive. 

Goes to show that habitat will out weight preaditors. If Deer have enough habitat they will survive.

Although I do not think the wolf should be babied the way they are by the feds there is a place for them in the ecosystem. heck they could very well take care of the TB problem in the LP on their own.


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## WAUB-MUKWA

Maybe 30 to 50 people in the U.P. have shot a wolf with a population of 300,000 and you figure the L.P. with a population of 8.7 million people how many of them will shoot a wolf. License sales have diminished alot, maybe by 50% for deer hunters. We used to have 1 million deer hunters 20 years ago. This will be the 4th year I haven't bought a buck tag and with no doe permits this time I didn't hunt at all. 

What do you think will happen in the L.P. if they are still on the list?


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## WAUB-MUKWA

Zorba said:


> I have a cabin that I go to fishing a few times a year 3 hours north of the Sault in Ontario. Right in the heart of Moose, bear, Cougar, and Wolf Country. Seeing a Deer up there is unheard of. Over the last 10 years, due to the milder winters, the locals have been seeing Whitetails. Not many. But, thier range has been expanding North in a place where they couldn't survive before.
> 
> If wolves kill that many deer, how could this happen in a place where deer preaditors out number deer? Out numbered by Wolves, Cougar, Bear, Bobcats, Lynx and the Deer still survive.
> 
> Goes to show that habitat will out weight preaditors. If Deer have enough habitat they will survive.


How many of those deer were pushed North by the wolves? You used to see a few deer here in town, but now it seems they are all in town now, brought there by the wolves.


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## duxdog

LOL, it's funny. I continue to ask the people who post these "pro wolf" threads to give me one good reason to have wolves in the state or what good they do for the state or it's people. 

Still waiting.................................................


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## sourdough44

I agree, if there was a season the limit would be rather low.

That comment about the numbers that are ALREADY being harvested is kinda funny, could be some truth in it though.


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## glen sible

Last released numbers by the DNRE --- 580 wolves in the UP. The viable number stated in Michigans wolf management plan is 200. Russ Mason says 10 times the viable number in the UP----2000! Maybe not that high but the consensus is that more than 580 now inhabit the UP. If we stay way lower than Mason and use 800 as a workable figure and if we agree with the wolf biologists who say an adult wolf will take as many as 50 whitetails per year then the math shows a staggering 40,000 deer per year are gone. Not to long ago the DNRE stated that although they agreed that the wolf was reducing the herd they did not believe that it was by a significant number. I guess I'd like to know just how many does it take to be significant.

thanks for reading and carry on

glen


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## Robert Holmes

The biologists are only accounting for the deer killed by wolves that they will eat. The biologists do not account for the "thrill kill" factor which can be as many or more deer than what they will consume. I also saw the first wolf in my former deer hunting location in the year 2000. During the past three years I have only saw two deer in the area from May through December. I do lots of fishing iin this area and see several wolves in there every year now. It is funny because I would see a few deer in there every time I was back there....not any more. Sure the deer will survive, just in less numbers. As for the DNR they will just sell more antlerless permits in the lower penninsula to make up for the licenses they no longer sell in the UP. Sooner or later a wolf will attack a person when that happens they will become delisted one way or another.


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## UPHuntr

glen sible said:


> Last released numbers by the DNRE --- 580 wolves in the UP. The viable number stated in Michigans wolf management plan is 200. Russ Mason says 10 times the viable number in the UP----2000! Maybe not that high but the consensus is that more than 580 now inhabit the UP. If we stay way lower than Mason and use 800 as a workable figure and if we agree with the wolf biologists who say an adult wolf will take as many as 50 whitetails per year then the math shows a staggering 40,000 deer per year are gone. Not to long ago the DNRE stated that although they agreed that the wolf was reducing the herd they did not believe that it was by a significant number. I guess I'd like to know just how many does it take to be significant.
> 
> thanks for reading and carry on
> 
> If you think there are only 800 wolfs in the U.P. then keep drinking the kool aid man.......


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## duxdog

Still waiting..............


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## WAUB-MUKWA

Don't hold your breath Dux, they are scrambling to find their emotions instead of science wolf handbook to give you an answer. Could be weeks before you hear from the kook's. :lol::yikes:


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## Zorba

They could take care of the whole TB problem down state. They will get ride of the coyotes.


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## Whit1

duxdog said:


> Still waiting..............


Actually there aren't very many........I haven't counted.....posters in this thread who are strongly in favor of an unfettered wolf population in either the UP or the LP. Thusly you'll be waiting a long time I surmise.


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## KPOD

If they opened up a restricted season on them, how many do you think should be taken yearly? 200, 300?


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## Robert Holmes

KPOD said:


> If they opened up a restricted season on them, how many do you think should be taken yearly? 200, 300?


 I know that I could put up a camo ice shanty and probably kill a dozen or so before they got wise. Not to mention a few dozen yotes too.


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## KPOD

Robert Holmes said:


> I know that I could put up a camo ice shanty and probably kill a dozen or so before they got wise. Not to mention a few dozen yotes too.


Hmm, that makes me wonder. Wolves would kill a coyote right? So is the coyote population less up there than it is in the SLP, since here they don't have many predators other than cars and humans.


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## tommy-n

duxdog said:


> LOL, it's funny. I continue to ask the people who post these "pro wolf" threads to give me one good reason to have wolves in the state or what good they do for the state or it's people.
> 
> Still waiting.................................................


I agree
There is a reason they were killed off to extinction and there's a reason it will happen again someday


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## WAUB-MUKWA

In Gogebic, Iron and Ontonagon Counties we thought they would kill off the coyotes but you can see a wolf one minute then the next a coyote right where the wolf was standing. We killed 2 dozen coyotes in one place only to kill another 12 the next spring in the most populated place in the U.P. for wolves.


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## WAUB-MUKWA

KPOD said:


> If they opened up a restricted season on them, how many do you think should be taken yearly? 200, 300?


You won't see a wolf hunt open to the public for many years in Michigan if at all. You'll see damage control permits to the documented farms though in a year maybe. Best hook up with a farm soon.


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## HCTE#86

All those in favor of a wolf hunt check out Field and Streams article on Robert Mileage. The same would happen in the Up. Its sad but true.


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## Robert Holmes

KPOD said:


> Hmm, that makes me wonder. Wolves would kill a coyote right? So is the coyote population less up there than it is in the SLP, since here they don't have many predators other than cars and humans.


Are you kidding me they hunt coyotes harder in the EUP than they hunt deer with little or no effect on the population. The wolves do not necessairly target coyotes. If the coyotes are in the wrong place at the wrong time they become lunch


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## bear50

tommy-n said:


> I agree
> There is a reason they were killed off to extinction and there's a reason it will happen again someday


There was a reason, That being the people were morons who have no clue about the truth. Wolves should be controled but there should and need to still have wolves. All you guys that cry about wolves killing all the deer crack me up. The fact is you guys have a lack of hunting skills. You just want to sit in your stand over a pile of food and expect to see herds of deer everytime you go out. I know you are all going to tell me how great you are as an outdoorsman and how I'm the clueless one. But the fact is I shoot deer evry year in the UP and nice ones at that. So look in the mirror and be honost. Sick of hearing the crying by a bunch of arm chair biologist.


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## anon12162011

bear50 said:


> There was a reason, That being the people were morons who have no clue about the truth. Wolves should be controled but there should and need to still have wolves. All you guys that cry about wolves killing all the deer crack me up. The fact is you guys have a lack of hunting skills. You just want to sit in your stand over a pile of food and expect to see herds of deer everytime you go out. I know you are all going to tell me how great you are as an outdoorsman and how I'm the clueless one. But the fact is I shoot deer evry year in the UP and nice ones at that. So look in the mirror and be honost. Sick of hearing the crying by a bunch of arm chair biologist.


 
+ A million to that


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## raisinrat

bear50 said:


> There was a reason, That being the people were morons who have no clue about the truth. Wolves should be controled but there should and need to still have wolves. All you guys that cry about wolves killing all the deer crack me up. The fact is you guys have a lack of hunting skills. You just want to sit in your stand over a pile of food and expect to see herds of deer everytime you go out. I know you are all going to tell me how great you are as an outdoorsman and how I'm the clueless one. But the fact is I shoot deer evry year in the UP and nice ones at that. So look in the mirror and be honost. Sick of hearing the crying by a bunch of arm chair biologist.


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## duxdog

YAAAAWWWWWWNNNNNN............still waiting. 


Not that it matters but I have many bucks over the 150 class and none were shot over bait, all were shot with my bow and I do not own or lease land. So please don't blurt out statements about all of us needing to hunt over bait or not knowing how to hunt. That fact is most of us are very in tune with what has happened in the UP over the 2 decades in regards to the wolves.


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## bear50

duxdog said:


> YAAAAWWWWWWNNNNNN............still waiting.
> 
> 
> Not that it matters but I have many bucks over the 150 class and none were shot over bait, all were shot with my bow and I do not own or lease land. So please don't blurt out statements about all of us needing to hunt over bait or not knowing how to hunt. That fact is most of us are very in tune with what has happened in the UP over the 2 decades in regards to the wolves.


Many over 150" ? Most of " us " ? :lol::lol:
Pretty impressed with your wolf knowledge while living in Mt. Morris. Watch another episode of Wild America !! Like I said " Armchair Biologist " !!!!!!!


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## Robert Holmes

bear50 said:


> Many over 150" ? Most of " us " ? :lol::lol:
> Pretty impressed with your wolf knowledge while living in Mt. Morris. Watch another episode of Wild America !! Like I said " Armchair Biologist " !!!!!!!


 I do have college degrees in wildlife biology and I do live in the UP and I do know where to look to find wolves. I do not care so much if they eat every deer in the UP because I have plenty of land I can hunt on in the Lower Penninsula. I think that it is a shame that the deer population has been drastically reduced in the last 10 years. I do not like the fact that I have to be armed when I trout fish up here. The DNR cannot answer what will happen when the primary food source diminishes to the point where wolves will starve.


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## uptracker

duxdog said:


> Not that it matters but I have many bucks over the 150 class


Post em up duxdog!!!!


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## yoopertoo

bear50 said:


> There was a reason, That being the people were morons who have no clue about the truth. Wolves should be controled but there should and need to still have wolves. All you guys that cry about wolves killing all the deer crack me up. The fact is you guys have a lack of hunting skills. You just want to sit in your stand over a pile of food and expect to see herds of deer everytime you go out. I know you are all going to tell me how great you are as an outdoorsman and how I'm the clueless one. But the fact is I shoot deer evry year in the UP and nice ones at that. So look in the mirror and be honost. Sick of hearing the crying by a bunch of arm chair biologist.


All this talk about who shoots deer in the UP is irrelevant. Obviously deer can still be shot in the UP. The questions are do wolves adversely effect deer populations in the UP. Yes. Are wolves needed as part of the ecosystem in most places. No. Both of my answers are trivially true. Predators can be replaced in any predator prey relationship. Human hunters can replace wolves in the vast majority of the lower 48 states. In fact they do just that. Another good example of predator replacement is in the case of the pronghorn antelope. Many evolutionary biologists believe the pronghorn evolved its speed not due to selective pressure from wolves, but rather due to some prehistoric predator. That predator went extinct and the wolf stepped in and now it is man.

All that said, I do not personally favor eliminating wolves. I find them fascinating and don't mind having them as part of the ecosystem. I do mind the weird love affair Americans have with them. They need to be managed as a game animal, and with their impact on deer populations in mind.


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## bear50

Robert Holmes said:


> I do have college degrees in wildlife biology and I do live in the UP and I do know where to look to find wolves. I do not care so much if they eat every deer in the UP because I have plenty of land I can hunt on in the Lower Penninsula. I think that it is a shame that the deer population has been drastically reduced in the last 10 years. I do not like the fact that I have to be armed when I trout fish up here. The DNR cannot answer what will happen when the primary food source diminishes to the point where wolves will starve.


Why would you need to be armed ? Wolves have a pretty clean track record. A black bear would be an issue before any wolf. Thats a fact ! And your college degree should answer your own question on what happens to starving wolves when the food source diminishes !! Just in case you skipped that day in class the answer is " they will die from sickness to killing themselves in a terf war. Thats also a fact ! I do believe the wolves should be controlled if the nimnbers are to high and that they should also fear man. But most people have no clue in this subject and only go on what some idiot told them and then the chain of ******** information just starts rolling.


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## traditional

duxdog said:


> LOL, it's funny. I continue to ask the people who post these "pro wolf" threads to give me one good reason to have wolves in the state or what good they do for the state or it's people.
> 
> Still waiting.................................................


 http://www.yellowstonepark.com/MoreToKnow/ShowNewsDetails.aspx?newsid=179

The Elk in yellowstone where over carrying capacity. Just as the deer herd was (I used the word was for a reason). The Wolf has changed that.

Ozoga just wrote a piece about the deer yards and how they have been degraded. Maybe we will see those yards regenerate just as they are seeing in yellowstone. 

I hear on here all the time about a more natural deer herd. The wolf will do that. The DEER hunter might not like it but a trapper might like it because it will bring down deer numbers to the carrying capacity which will benefit all animals.

I think others have not responded to your request for fear of getting flamed like I am about to.


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## traditional

I will also add that the regeneration of willow,aspen, and cottonwood in the river bottoms has been a benefit for the trout in the rivers.


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## traditional

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=357689&page=3

It seems that maybe the wolf in keeping the population in check might make for good management.


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## yoopertoo

bear50 said:


> Why would you need to be armed ? Wolves have a pretty clean track record. A black bear would be an issue before any wolf. Thats a fact ! And your college degree should answer your own question on what happens to starving wolves when the food source diminishes !! Just in case you skipped that day in class the answer is " they will die from sickness to killing themselves in a terf war. Thats also a fact ! I do believe the wolves should be controlled if the nimnbers are to high and that they should also fear man. But most people have no clue in this subject and only go on what some idiot told them and then the chain of ******** information just starts rolling.


I personally did not fear wolves in the UP when I was there and I saw quite a few. My closest encounter was near Paradise. I was busten brush and walked right up on one. I think he was sitting tight. He was gone in a flash! The wolves in MI still have a very healthly fear of humans.

That said under the right conditions wolves should be treated with great caution. I can find other examples, but here is something recent.

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3423288&postcount=5

Before wolves reach the point of starvation prey numbers are greatly effected. There is also the problem of prey that exist in vulnerable conditions such as deer yards in the UP.


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## yoopertoo

fowl said:


> First of all there has not been a documented case of a human attack by a wolf in the lower 48 in recent history. If you have reliable documentation otherwise, please provide it. The last thing I fear in the UP is wolves.
> 
> There is no doubt that wolves eat deer. But, there are areas that regularly produce trophy deer including northern WI and Canada. Why is the UP any different. Oh, I know why because everyone shoots every little raghorn they see before it gets a chance to get any bigger. The deer management decisions that we make have as much or more to do with the decline in deer hunting quality in the UP than the wolves do. Think about that the next time you have a raghorn in your crosshairs. Let em walk.


First, The UP is not any different and that is why your point about the lower 48 is irrelevant. Wolves are wolves so if they behave a certain way in Alaska or Russia they can potentially behave that way in the UP. I never feared wolves in the UP either. I saw a lot of them. There was an attack in this decade in Lake Superior Provincial Park in Ontario. Admittedly the wolf was acting "odd", but it was an attack.

Second, your qualification of "recent history" is spin. The wolves we have today are basically the same wolves we have always had so any attack in the past is relevant. It does not have to be "recent" to qualify as meaningful information.

The point as has been stated many times but people seem to ignore is not whether deer and wolves can coexist. Of course they can. The question is do wolves effect deer populations. Of course they do. If you want more deer to hunt you have fewer wolves simple and undeniable.


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## yoopertoo

fowl said:


> Richards:
> 
> just to set the facts straight. The wolves in the UP today were not brought to MI. They made it here on there own, likely from Canada or neighboring WI or MN.
> 
> They've also recently made it to the NLP on their own. Like it or not we need to learn to live with it. While I wouldn't say I love wolves I think it is kind of cool to live in an area that is still wild enough to support a population. And like I said there are plenty of states that produce trophy whitetails with an ample wolf population.
> 
> It would be nice if the antis would allow science to guide management and allow them to be delisted. At least so the state could take action on livestock loss and other damage.


Having wolves does not make a place wild. The NLP is not wild by any stretch of the imagination. Wolves would wander your subdivsions and eat most anything with four legs if they were left unmolested and given enough time to become accustomed to the environs. Don't let the Disney myth beguile you.


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## fowl

> Second, your qualification of "recent history" is spin. The wolves we have today are basically the same wolves we have always had so any attack in the past is relevant. It does not have to be "recent" to qualify as meaningful information.


The chance of being attacked by a wolf is so small it doesn't even register on my radar. I am much more afraid of being attacked by the neighbors dog than a wolf. Maybe we should outlaw dog ownership so no one gets hurt.



> Having wolves does not make a place wild. The NLP is not wild by any stretch of the imagination. Wolves would wander your subdivsions and eat most anything with four legs if they were left unmolested and given enough time to become accustomed to the environs. Don't let the Disney myth beguile you.


I don't live in a subdivision. The NLP still has a few large chunks of land with little development. You suggest that wolves don't prefer these more "wild" places. Yet all of the NLP sightings over the years have been in these more undeveloped areas. 



> If you want more deer to hunt you have fewer wolves simple and undeniable.


I dont want *more* deer to hunt, I want *quality* deer to hunt. There is an area of the state that has a ton of deer and you won't have to worry about any wolves. Maybe you should consider a move.


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## yoopertoo

fowl said:


> The chance of being attacked by a wolf is so small it doesn't even register on my radar. I am much more afraid of being attacked by the neighbors dog than a wolf. Maybe we should outlaw dog ownership so no one gets hurt.


Dangers are relative. The likelihood of being bitten by a dog is higher for the average American because the probability of interacting with biting dogs is much higher. It is not because dogs are more dangerous than wolves. The probability of something happening to you is conditional. For example, the probability of being killed by lightening is much much higher for a Florida golfer than it is for a UP grandmother. Not because the lightening in the UP is any less dangerous than it is in Florida, but rather a Florida golfer finds themselves in the right conditions more frequently than a UP grandmother.

The fact remains wolves are wolves no matter where you find them. If they pose a threat in Alaska or Russia they can pose a threat in anywhere. I mean really it is kind of comical to think that experiencing wolves in MI would allow anyone to make a broad determination about the dangers of wolves.

You're posing a red herring. I'm not proposing "out-lawing" anything. The pro-wolf interests are those outlawing things.



> I don't live in a subdivision. The NLP still has a few large chunks of land with little development. You suggest that wolves don't prefer these more "wild" places. Yet all of the NLP sightings over the years have been in these more undeveloped areas.


Wolves prefer prey. There was a time when people thought loons and eagles indicated "wildness". 



> I dont want *more* deer to hunt, I want *quality* deer to hunt.


You're not the only person in the state.



> There is an area of the state that has a ton of deer and you won't have to worry about any wolves. Maybe you should consider a move.


Considered and done. Of course my decision to move had nothing to do with wolves or deer.


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## bear50

Robert Holmes said:


> Do the research there have been way more wolf/human attacks in the past 10 years then black bear confrontations. My point is that wolves do not starve too often. They will resort to killing livestock, pets, or whatever they can find. At that point packs will dispurse and individual animals will migrate.Unless we have a hunt soon a wolf will eventtually attack a human. Of the wolves that I have confronted none have shown any sign of fear. At least most of the bears have run off.


You are so clueless !! And this statement is all the backing I need to make this claim. Like I said " ARM-CHAIR Bioligist ". You and WOOPOO OOPOO ( whatever your name is ) crack me up. Your knowledge of even your own proclaimed UP astonishes me. All I can picture are two dudes from Deleverence !!!! I hear a banjo !!!!!!!!!!!!


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## WAUB-MUKWA

bear50 said:


> You are so clueless !! And this statement is all the backing I need to make this claim. Like I said " ARM-CHAIR Bioligist ". You and WOOPOO OOPOO ( whatever your name is ) crack me up. Your knowledge of even your own proclaimed UP astonishes me. All I can picture are two dudes from Deleverence !!!! I hear a banjo !!!!!!!!!!!!


It's ok, you'll get over it.  Go back to your broadhead knowledge.


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## Zorba

I just read a article in the local paper that said the feds are going to try again to delist the great lakes wolves in April. It also said that the anti's are getting ready to try and block it again.

It looks as if the issue will be decieded by lawyers and judges instead of the legislative. Thats unfortunate.


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## Robert Holmes

bear50 said:


> You are so clueless !! And this statement is all the backing I need to make this claim. Like I said " ARM-CHAIR Bioligist ". You and WOOPOO OOPOO ( whatever your name is ) crack me up. Your knowledge of even your own proclaimed UP astonishes me. All I can picture are two dudes from Deleverence !!!! I hear a banjo !!!!!!!!!!!!


 Do 2 inch canine teeth give you any indication of what wolves might eat? It does not take much of a biologist to figure that one out. Are humans made up of any less meat than a deer? Is it documented that wolves have attacked humans before regardless of where? I totally rest my case on this one and let the national geographic watchers turn on their tv's so they can go to fantasy land.


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## WAUB-MUKWA

Zorba said:


> I just read a article in the local paper that said the feds are going to try again to delist the great lakes wolves in April. It also said that the anti's are getting ready to try and block it again.
> 
> It looks as if the issue will be decieded by lawyers and judges instead of the legislative. Thats unfortunate.


The ARA's won't get it blocked this time. The USF&W has done everything the court wanted done. There wont be any hunting by civilians but the government will re-take control. The USDA, not the DNR already killed many wolves in Michigan and Wisconsin and most of the ARA's didn't even know about it. Just goes to show how out of touch the ARA's really are.


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## WAUB-MUKWA

Robert Holmes said:


> Do 2 inch canine teeth give you any indication of what wolves might eat? It does not take much of a biologist to figure that one out. Are humans made up of any less meat than a deer? Is it documented that wolves have attacked humans before regardless of where? I totally rest my case on this one and let the national geographic watchers turn on their tv's so they can go to fantasy land.


Not to worry, i'd take any Yoopers word instead of the urban dislocated.


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## bear50

WAUB-MUKWA said:


> Not to worry, i'd take any Yoopers word instead of the urban dislocated.


 :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## bear50

WAUB-MUKWA said:


> It's ok, you'll get over it.  Go back to your broadhead knowledge.


I can teach you about that to !!


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## bear50

I cant believe waka waka and Holmes have not discovered that the only way to lower the wolf population is to first kill all of the vampires. You should really watch the New Moon !! :lol::lol::lol:


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## Perferator

Frantz said:


> I saw my first wolf here in he LP, Mecosta County back in I think 1992, my brother and I were on our way to work and it was in a field off of 5 Mile and M66.
> 
> I fear any wild animal, especially the predators. Do I fear the wolf or coyote? Not so much as I carry any time I am in the woods. Does this protect me? Well not much more then anything short of eradicating all predators.
> 
> _*I have had coyotes stalk me in the woods*_. Many will say, nope, never happened, but it did and does. Their fear, like any fear, has its limits, and those limits are shrinking, not just with wolves, but with most animals. It gets worse as they gain numbers and as hunger grows.
> 
> I like the idea of SOME opportunities for the hunt and control of numbers, as long as we do not get stupid like we did years ago and almost wipe them out.


I wish coyotes stalked me in the woods......I work my butt off trying to call them in. 


On the wolf side of things, my wife had a gray wolf bolt across the road in front of her jeep saturday in broad daylight. This is not so unusual these days except when you consider it was 5-6mi south of Petoskey on US131 near Clarion rd.


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## 2PawsRiver

If your a really small man and have a high sqeaky voice, you might be stalked by Coyotes.

I was amazed to see some of the great bucks coming out of the UP this year, especially since according to some, the Wolves have ate them all.

We're already planning next years hunting trip to the UP. I will be hunting for a nice Buck, but will work hardest at getting a picture of a Wolf in the wild.

Any bets on which will be most difficult.


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## Perferator

2PawsRiver said:


> If your a really small man and have a high sqeaky voice, you might be stalked by Coyotes.
> 
> I was amazed to see some of the great bucks coming out of the UP this year, especially since according to some, the Wolves have ate them all.
> 
> We're already planning next years hunting trip to the UP. I will be hunting for a nice Buck, but will work hardest at getting a picture of a Wolf in the wild.
> 
> Any bets on which will be most difficult.


I've been surrounded by coyotes raising a fuss because I wasnt the rabbit they thought I was :lol:

Wolves....I've yet to see one here in the lower but I do know they are here.


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## Big50blaster

check this link out

http://www.aws.vcn.com/wolf_attacks_on_humans.html


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## mjd

this pic was taken between drummond and the bridge


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