# Pheasant Release Town Hall Meeting - THIS SUNDAY!!



## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

Liver and Onions said:


> Ok. I just realized that you intended to type "wash" instead of "was". Anyways, my bad. I've been to 3 Tower Shoots and I do think most of the guys referred to it as a "shoot" and not a hunt. After the shoot was the hunt with the dogs.
> 
> I can see why some would not like a Tower Shoot. I had no problem killing birds like that. Afterwards, I have great memories of my GSP working the birds that survived the shoot. I sure do miss that dog.
> Still hoping to get an answer to my post #45. I can't see why any hunter would object to a dog hunt at a pheasant farm.
> L & O


We will slow down on are typing if you slow down on reading.lol
Was(wash)
Gaps(gsp's)
Auto correct isn't perfect


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## RonSwanson (Apr 20, 2016)

pathfinder 1984 said:


> frankly, i think i lot of you young guys dont want to invest the time, money and effort it takes to hunt upland birds in the way that they deserve. i think you would rather just go to one of those chicken ranches and brag on how many birds you killed.
> 
> it saddens me to see what hunting has come to for far too many people.


I enjoy a good pheasant shoot. I don't think I have ever or would ever brag about the birds I have killed on a farm, maybe dog work. I fully expect to get the birds I put out as well as hold overs. 

Put and takes have thier place. My first ever hunting experience was 4 years ago in a public release field in Ohio. I was invited to join a friend with a dog. Had it been a pay to play shoot at a farm I do not know if I would have gone. From that time on I have been hooked hunting, primarily, the few pockets of wild birds, pheasant and grouse, in the state. The few times I go to release fields it is weeks (months even) after the last release on a large parcel with excellent habitat. Since my first season I have introduced 3 new hunters and one new youth to the sport. Only one stuck with it but that is still one more than the season before. 

Fwiw, there are way more pheasants here than in Ohio.


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## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

GDLUCK said:


> So what will happen is that the "kids" that are recruited into this pheasant hunt will be the children of people that already hunt and are already introducing their kids to hunting, just not pheasant hunting. Then these kids are gonna grow up and and want to hunt real pheasant so they will load up and drive out to SD to hunt real birds.Realising pheasants is not going to get Joe Neverhunted to go buy a shotgun and start hunting.
> 
> If they want to increase participation they need to do things that birng in current non hunters.
> 
> What has really peeved me is i see all these commercials about nasty hunters killing lions, elephants etc. But know what i dont see?????? I dont see any commercials promoting responsible hunting. where is MUCC, where is Safari Club, where is NRA, where are all the other groups with deep pockets? they should be combating all the negative media with positive media.


I think your real close to the reason we have low recruitments. I know of several children who have even become vegetarians, because of teachers.

Years ago NRA offered material (no cost to taxpayers) for gun safety to be taught in schools. This was rebuked and here we are with still high accidental shootings.

This program with the state, PF, DU, RFG, QU, NWTF, etc, etc, to name just a few. All require those willing to support them to help wildlife. The only one that helps wildlife is hunters. I think these organizations as well as the state the need to teach this knowledge of hunting, firearm safety, game management. Not only for these organizations to continue but for the wildlife to survive.

As we become masses we have disconnected on the basic survival skills. Today majority of our children believe groceries come from the supermarket. They do no grasp how important farming is to feed the masses, and the need to manage our wildlife, for today, and more importantly for future generations.

To be frank they did not realize how important air, water, soil were over 50 years ago. Thus the dust bowl era in our own history. This started a government agency today it is called NRCS along with DEQ.

I think if knowledge is mandatory for modern civilization to advance. The same can be said for our natural resources, it needs to be taught. Especially firearm safety, the importance of hunting, and game management.


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## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

Just want to add not only preserves that are available in this state from August 15 thru April 30. This is a far longer season than we have, even if the state released birds during the hunting season.

By law even today you can buy birds from many game breeders in the state and release them on state game area and private property. Once released they are legally owned by the state. So if you have a valid hunting license and they are in season and either on state game area open to hunting or your not treaspassing, you can do it yourself without asking others to pay for your play. It would also be a much safer experience than anything similar to put and take.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Hunters Edge said:


> Just want to add not only preserves that are available in this state from August 15 thru April 30. This is a far longer season than we have, even if the state released birds during the hunting season.
> 
> By law even today you can buy birds from many game breeders in the state and release them on state game area and private property. Once released they are legally owned by the state. So if you have a valid hunting license and they are in season and either on state game area open to hunting or your not treaspassing, you can do it yourself without asking others to pay for your play. It would also be a much safer experience than anything similar to put and take.


It is nice having the option to buy a few birds to place on your property for an afternoon hunt, but I bet not many do it.
Having about 35 weekends to hunt a pheasant farm is important to notice if the DNR were to ever partner with pheasant farms. Having a single day or weekend for some type of Youth Hunt would never work. 

L & O


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

Hunters Edge said:


> I think your real close to the reason we have low recruitments. I know of several children who have even become vegetarians, because of teachers.
> 
> Years ago NRA offered material (no cost to taxpayers) for gun safety to be taught in schools. This was rebuked and here we are with still high accidental shootings.
> 
> ...


You are correct sir!They did not realize how important it was.The first book to get public attention to air,water and soil was written by Rachel Carson(Silent Spring) Which had a role in the ban on DDT.As for the children (our future) There is a disconnect for sure.For example I raised my daughter around the outdoors catching frogs,fishing and hunting and so on.Various pets over the years as well.She was little and was not sheltered in anyway and many people tried to turn her in a way so to speak as if what I do is morally wrong. She grew up watching me fillet live fish,cook it and eat it while the fish remains were still moving in the bag while we ate.She always wanted to see what was in the fish(anatomy). Whats this with her finger,and that,and is that a fish? Yes it is Brittney he ate that fish and now we are going to eat him.Her eye's lit up.Keep in mind this is a 6 year old.Then one day instead of picking her up at school I snuck out for maybe a hour deer hunt at best and let her go to latch key after school.Bad dad right? Boy did I get lashings for that but (BANG)got him.left him and hurried to get her by six.I was 5 minutes late.Bad dad?Now I'm on the way to get the deer.Wait in the truck I'm going to get my deer.She went crazy.Similar to leaving a bird dog in the truck as you walk away with a shotgun. Okay as I opened the doors she sprung onto me. Brittney this is going to be messy,like fish she says I reply yes in its own way.She was glowing in delight. We field dressed the deer and I had to show her every organ as she pointed to it.I could not even answer all of her questions. Dad.that's the butt what are you doing!We don't eat that I said (yup she replied)Then I explained how the food goes in the mouth,down the down the esophagus to the stomach where food is dissolved and how the rest goes thru the intestines resulting iin these pellet's you see here.By the time we got home momma was mad and Britt was demanding venison for dinner.Oh and we had blood all over us.My daughter has seen ducks downed at 5 and is eating them at six.she loves duck.The same with grouse and pheasant.And loves the morels.She will spit out shot and keep eating like no other even though it's rare I miss a pellet.She grew up around a lot of so-called anti's or the disillusioned so to speak.Then off to college for a environmental degree.In class she soon realizes that she is surrounded by in her words (******* vegans)Except the teacher.He recommends that everyone should kill and eat something as a good lesson in life.He asked how many have done this(Brittney raises her hand)The only one!The teacher and her talked about what we have done together and the value in it.She loves venison and would rather eat that than a cow to make less of a carbon footprint so to speak.After college she played around with a few ideas,(Sierra club)and others then decided to go back to school. I asked why?She said she might as well wipe her butt with a 4 year degree and now is at MSU majoring in Environmental law.She has not hunted yet but she supports it and has been recruited by honest and truthful exposure.She will be looking out for us And for those who come up against her good luck!If I couldn't hold her down at six or win an oral argument per say (look out)Now for my point to my rambling. There is no way I or anyone else could convince her that releasing birds that don't become self sustainable as hunting resource.But she would go for habitat and conservation efforts that create sustainable populations that supports biodiversity. I am a little concerned that introducing the younger generation to hunting liberated birds might lead them in the wrong direction.The trend is organic foods,free range animals,no hormones and no GMOs.The market is growing fast.


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## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

birdhntr said:


> You are correct sir!They did not realize how important it was.The first book to get public attention to air,water and soil was written by Rachel Carson(Silent Spring) Which had a role in the ban on DDT.As for the children (our future) There is a disconnect for sure.For example I raised my daughter around the outdoors catching frogs,fishing and hunting and so on.Various pets over the years as well.She was little and was not sheltered in anyway and many people tried to turn her in a way so to speak as if what I do is morally wrong. She grew up watching me fillet live fish,cook it and eat it while the fish remains were still moving in the bag while we ate.She always wanted to see what was in the fish(anatomy). Whats this with her finger,and that,and is that a fish? Yes it is Brittney he ate that fish and now we are going to eat him.Her eye's lit up.Keep in mind this is a 6 year old.Then one day instead of picking her up at school I snuck out for maybe a hour deer hunt at best and let her go to latch key after school.Bad dad right? Boy did I get lashings for that but (BANG)got him.left him and hurried to get her by six.I was 5 minutes late.Bad dad?Now I'm on the way to get the deer.Wait in the truck I'm going to get my deer.She went crazy.Similar to leaving a bird dog in the truck as you walk away with a shotgun. Okay as I opened the doors she sprung onto me. Brittney this is going to be messy,like fish she says I reply yes in its own way.She was glowing in delight. We field dressed the deer and I had to show her every organ as she pointed to it.I could not even answer all of her questions. Dad.that's the butt what are you doing!We don't eat that I said (yup she replied)Then I explained how the food goes in the mouth,down the down the esophagus to the stomach where food is dissolved and how the rest goes thru the intestines resulting iin these pellet's you see here.By the time we got home momma was mad and Britt was demanding venison for dinner.Oh and we had blood all over us.My daughter has seen ducks downed at 5 and is eating them at six.she loves duck.The same with grouse and pheasant.And loves the morels.She will spit out shot and keep eating like no other even though it's rare I miss a pellet.She grew up around a lot of so-called anti's or the disillusioned so to speak.Then off to college for a environmental degree.In class she soon realizes that she is surrounded by in her words (******* vegans)Except the teacher.He recommends that everyone should kill and eat something as a good lesson in life.He asked how many have done this(Brittney raises her hand)The only one!The teacher and her talked about what we have done together and the value in it.She loves venison and would rather eat that than a cow to make less of a carbon footprint so to speak.After college she played around with a few ideas,(Sierra club)and others then decided to go back to school. I asked why?She said she might as well wipe her butt with a 4 year degree and now is at MSU majoring in Environmental law.She has not hunted yet but she supports it and has been recruited by honest and truthful exposure.She will be looking out for us And for those who come up against her good luck!If I couldn't hold her down at six or win an oral argument per say (look out)Now for my point to my rambling. There is no way I or anyone else could convince her that releasing birds that don't become self sustainable as hunting resource.But she would go for habitat and conservation efforts that create sustainable populations that supports biodiversity. I am a little concerned that introducing the younger generation to hunting liberated birds might lead them in the wrong direction.The trend is organic foods,free range animals,no hormones and no GMOs.The market is growing fast.


Thanks for sharing, I can sense a proud father, and that you should be. Unfortunately the story you shared is the minority, with intercity youths, even majority of those living in subdivisions are disconnected from nature and the importance of preserving our renewable natural resources, by using them, and getting funding to continue the use.

Again thanks for sharing. You should remind her the importance of buying fishing and hunting equipment and licenses, it funds what we have today. If she buys a license, just maybe after a few years she may even try it, of course with her dad.

For those that understands who actually funds the fish and wildlife, but do nothing to help fund it by purchasing licenses. Is similar to watching someone getting mugged and not even calling 911 to help. Why because knowing it is not living it. It is crucial for our fish and wildlife the new recruitment of hunters and fishing enthusiasts.


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## gundogguy (Oct 5, 2008)

Hunters Edge said:


> Just want to add not only preserves that are available in this state from August 15 thru April 30. This is a far longer season than we have, even if the state released birds during the hunting season.
> 
> By law even today you can buy birds from many game breeders in the state and release them on state game area and private property. Once released they are legally owned by the state. So if you have a valid hunting license and they are in season and either on state game area open to hunting or your not treaspassing, you can do it yourself without asking others to pay for your play. It would also be a much safer experience than anything similar to put and take.


Over the years I have done this countless time with friends and their dogs I think the 1st time i bought roosters for in season release and shoot was in 1973. Did for my new father-in law and his buds from Detroit. Great time doing my own P-N-T We were able to enjoy the day far from the "madding crowd"
I did the state subsidized P-N-T in Michigan and Indiana after 2nd or 3rd time I learned very quickly that redistribution of wealth was not the answer if wanted a quality a experience with friends and the dogs.
Self reliance has always been the a good thing!


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

A message from Ken: 19 states have a pheasant raise-n-release program, maybe we should give it a try.

Catching Wisconsin Pheasants......plus a number of other pheasant videos.






L & O


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

Are they jumping off bridges too?


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Mr. Botek said:


> Are they jumping off bridges too?


Yes. Those getting the highest score get to hunt first.

https://www.google.com/search?q=peo...RAhVilVQKHT7-DFwQsAQILg#imgrc=0RKX9lHgWMxOyM:

L & O


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## GDLUCK (Dec 2, 2002)

Liver and Onions said:


> A message from Ken: 19 states have a pheasant raise-n-release program, maybe we should give it a try.
> 
> Catching Wisconsin Pheasants......plus a number of other pheasant videos.
> 
> ...


There are 32 countries that have national health care.

Still want to use what other places do as justification?


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

GDLUCK said:


> There are 32 countries that have national health care.
> 
> Still want to use what other places do as justification?


LOL. In about a week we from ObamaCare to TrumpCare. 

L & O


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

What about the recruitment status of these states?Was that even the goal.Or maybe just satisfying us older folks and are reflections of our past hunting memories.This is by no means representing futurity and ethics and my bet is that it won't teach the truth about hunting.If we don't have sustainability then we have nothing.If the deer numbers drop and we need recruitment do we release deer?What for? Sustainability iis the truth if we don't do that then say good bye!!


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## Josh R (Dec 4, 2010)

I shoot a big buck, please pass the MAPRs for me....
I can't shoot a pheasant, please put out some pheasants for me to shoot......


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## Dead Bird (Oct 2, 2001)

So as I was reading this I came across a interesting statement....



Hunters Edge said:


> Unfortunately the story you shared is the minority, with intercity youths, even majority of those living in subdivisions are disconnected from nature and the importance of preserving our renewable natural resources, by using them, and getting funding to continue the use.


I have found that the minority is usually the loudest.... It is the few that truly have the passion that make the biggest difference... the rest just complain...


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## Josh R (Dec 4, 2010)

Josh R said:


> I shoot a big buck, please pass the MAPRs for me....
> I can't shoot a pheasant, please put out some pheasants for me to shoot......


Edit:
I CAN'T shoot a big buck....


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## fordman1 (Dec 12, 2015)

Seems like a waste of money and time, also the Dnr is not in favor of the idea and either am I.


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## Josh R (Dec 4, 2010)

I'm all in favor of a pheasant stamp if the money went to only building, maintaining, and gaining habitat. That's it, no put and take. 
I wouldn't care of they put a limit on birds per year either of they think that'll help. 
$100 stamp and 5 birds a year something to that affect. Maybe $10 a bird and no yearly limit, I don't know, just throwing options. 
Who's the best person to contact about this at the DNR? I need to contact them to voice my opinion against this.
I've found some great public land areas that hold decent numbers of birds, ran the dog's Saturday and put up 9 Hens and a Rooster. Build it and they'll come, this piece was around 160ish acres. Great mix of blue stem, Indian grass, switch grass and some left over crops from the farmers. 
Build it and they'll come!
Here's 3 different public land fields, none within 15 miles of each other. Taken in early November, first part of December, and New Years Eve day


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

Take your kids with you they are never to young.This was 1998 Brittney was six she had a blast.One giant male pat and a giant wild rooster from alpena area.This was dinner shortly after this photo was taken with some rehydrated morels.Very happy six year old


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## FNC (Jun 5, 2007)

Count me in for a Michigan Upland Habitat Stamp. Wild birds - sustainable wild birds - must be the goal. The only way to do that is with habitat (food, cover, and water). For what I pay for my dogs food and vet bills each year, an Upland Habitat Stamp would be no issue whatsoever. We need to help wild pheasants in Michigan and that is best done by providing and managing habitat.


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## dauber (Jan 11, 2010)

Should be a pheasant stamp, not upland stamp. Why should I pay for something I don't use.


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## FNC (Jun 5, 2007)

dauber said:


> Should be a pheasant stamp, not upland stamp. Why should I pay for something I don't use.


Excellent point!


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## gundogguy (Oct 5, 2008)

dauber said:


> Should be a pheasant stamp, not upland stamp. Why should I pay for something I don't use.


No No! This will be a classic redistribution of wealth program. Even the Duck hunters are going to get to pay for pheasants. Yous cover guys cannot hide from from the expenses of putting out pheasants for us trolls.


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## Lucky Dog (Jul 4, 2004)

Michigan used to have a habitat stamp, or access stamp. I forgot what it was exactly called. Anyone know why it was discontinued?


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## Adam Gibbs (Jul 13, 2006)

My first experience with a put and take program was just a couple weeks ago in IL. A friend that lives in the area and I went to the Des Plaines Wildlife area. This was the final day of their clean up week. During the clean up week, you do not pay to hunt. You get in line and choose an area based on first come, first serve. Once an area fills up, it is no longer open for other hunters to join. You hunt your zone for the first hour, then you are free to roam about the whole state game area looking for your birds.

The birds are raised on site, and released every day of the season. My buddy said they release about a dozen birds per unit, per day. The typical cost to hunt is $30 a day for residents, $35 for non-residents. Your limit is 2 and birds must be checked in. You can also shoot quail if they are found, as well as rabbits during the last week only.

It was a successful day, we had to work much harder for our birds than if we had hunted a preserve. While I knew it wasn't true hunting, it sure felt a lot better than going to a preserve and having to kick birds to get them in the air. The ones we flushed were pretty spooky and would typically fly quite a ways if we didn't get shots off at them. 

I am not much of an upland hunter, but if MI had a similar program with a similar cost I would participate very frequently. It seemed to be pretty much self funded and participation was very high. It also seemed like not a ton of birds get killed off of there every day. A few days before us there were 90 hunters and only 30 some birds killed so it definitely isn't a walk in the park. It was also good to see the kids participating in the hunts as well as being good work for our not so experienced dogs. 

In my uneducated and unimportant opinion, I'd be all for it if it was ran similar to Des Plaines.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Adam Gibbs said:


> .......
> 
> it sure felt a lot better than going to a preserve and having to kick birds to get them in the air.......


.........
Thanks for that post from 1st hand experience.
Regarding your post, why would those birds fly any better than birds raised at a pheasant farm ? It wasn't always true, but I believe now all pheasants farms raise birds in flight pens which has noticeably improved the birds flight from years back.

L & O


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## Adam Gibbs (Jul 13, 2006)

Liver and Onions said:


> .........
> Thanks for that post from 1st hand experience.
> Regarding your post, why would those birds fly any better than birds raised at a pheasant farm ? It wasn't always true, but I believe now all pheasants farms raise birds in flight pens which has noticeably improved the birds flight from years back.
> 
> L & O


I honestly can't answer that. They raise the birds on site there and the enclosures looked exactly like what I've seen at the farms I had been to in the past.

My only guess is you are hunting birds that are not necessarily put out the same day where with every game farm I've been to, they were put out not long before you shot them. Maybe it gives the chance for the bird to become a little more "wild" or unpredictable. The buddy I went with that hunts it frequently said that not shooting your birds is more common than getting your 2, which has not been my experience at local game ranches here and in NC. If you didn't get most of your birds it was an oddity.

Like I said, it's not for everyone, but I would enjoy it. And I can only imagine at $30 a day it's pretty well self funding when you can only shoot 2.


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## Botiz (Oct 21, 2010)

Mr. Botek said:


> Please, go look for yourselves and make up your own minds. I'm not sure if the seasons for the release fields in Ohio are over, but you can still walk the land. I went to two different areas south of Dayton.


Sounds like you hunted the places I grew up hunting. I was born and raised in that area. Based on my experiences with the put and take release program in Ohio, I would vote a hard "No" on this. 

I agree with Mr. Botek's assessment. It's a pathetic representation of upland hunting best. I get it guys, my whole life I've listened to my grandpa talk about his pheasant hunting days and longed to experience myself, but this ain't the way.


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## Botiz (Oct 21, 2010)

FNC said:


> Count me in for a Michigan Upland Habitat Stamp. Wild birds - sustainable wild birds - must be the goal. The only way to do that is with habitat (food, cover, and water). For what I pay for my dogs food and vet bills each year, an Upland Habitat Stamp would be no issue whatsoever. We need to help wild pheasants in Michigan and that is best done by providing and managing habitat.


I'm with you.


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