# Cougar Video



## deerslayer#1 (Nov 8, 2004)

My neighbor just showed me a video of a huge cat eating a deer carcass! He filmed it last weekend, in northern Michigan. The cat is very close to the camera and looks to be at least 100 lbs! He is makeing me a copy, and I will post it as soon as I can. I can assure you, this video can easily be identified as to its location in Michigan. As soon as I get the copy, it will be forwarded to the appropriate authority. The cat was eating what appeared to be road kill. I don't know if its a wild cougar, or escaped pet. But its a cougar eating a deer.
This is real, stay tuned!

Brian


----------



## woodsrat (Jan 4, 2005)

Cool! Looking forward to seeing it.


----------



## Buddy Lee (Dec 17, 2003)

deerslayer#1 said:


> My neighbor just showed me a video of a huge cat eating a deer carcass! He filmed it last weekend, in northern Michigan. The cat is very close to the camera and looks to be at least 100 lbs! He is makeing me a copy, and I will post it as soon as I can. I can assure you, this video can easily be identified as to its location in Michigan. As soon as I get the copy, it will be forwarded to the appropriate authority. The cat was eating what appeared to be road kill. I don't know if its a wild cougar, or escaped pet. But its a cougar eating a deer.
> This is real, stay tuned!
> 
> Brian


A video doesn't prove a thing.


----------



## ranger06 (Jul 26, 2004)

WELL i second that report I know the guy who took this video he called me today when i was FISHING in the area where he spotted it, and told me he has video DONT BE SO DANG NEGATIVE why would we BS you ?? what do we gain ??
you sound HOSTILE with the "DAMN" n' such just thought YOU may like to know some info isnt that why this site is here ?? OR is it to tell people they are liars and dont know what they are talking about?? If you read other posts i have made i feel this site is VERY big on bashing before facts I FEEL VERY STRONGLY about bashing and down talking when YOU HAVE NO IDEA the details intstead of "Don't mean a damn thing" you should say, Really, this could be interesting..............BUT NO cause YOU dont believe it, HES A LIAR........................ 

I dont want to sound disrespectful but i would like people to read their posts and think what if I stated something HIGHLY UNLIKELY and then someone said "Video dont mean a damn thinG" how would it make you feel ???? LIKE A LIAR......


HE MAY BE LYING, I HAVENT EVEN SEEN THE VIDEO BUT....I know the dude REAL well and he dont BS me at ALL.............I'll keep you naysayers posted on the "MICHIGAN COUGAR" also


----------



## Ed Michrina (Dec 25, 2002)

Buddy Lee said:


> A video doesn't prove a damn thing.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Linda G.


Some people won't believe until they are bitten by one  

cool looking foward to seeing it.


----------



## walleyechaser (Jan 12, 2001)

It looks like we're headed back to the Dark Ages when to speak of anything
out of the ordinary was grounds for burning at the stake.

What's happened to objectivity regarding the possibility of cougars?

People should grow up and keep an open mind.

I for one am taking a wait and see approach and I certainly wouldn't call another individual a liar until proven to be no more than I'd wish to be called one.

Perhaps its time for all of the sportsmen on this forum to make donations so certain individuals can attend Charm School.
JMO


----------



## ranger06 (Jul 26, 2004)

Like i said i did'nt want to sound RUDE BUT those are pretty strong words !! 

Thanks Linda


Adam


----------



## Banditto (Jun 9, 2000)

I never wrote this entirely in one post so here goes. I hunt a very private and unaccessable (and I mean you just can't get there without a helicopter) piece of property. The back 80 acres which is a series of little islands has never been hunted that I know of.

Three years ago the owner of the side property who also hunted out west a lot alerted us that he found cat tracks too large to be anything but a cougage. I was doubtful being there is a lot of other stuff around there.

Then last year a story started circulating that a local shot and killed a cougar but never reported it due to federal penalty. Now all this happened kinda seperate to the group I hunted with. But when I put 2+2 I realized that the location of where the cat was reportedly taken would be the backside of the back 80.

Now I still have never seen the thing, but now I don't entirely doubt there was one. Heck I remember as a kid that they caught one in Monroe or something like that where somebody had a pet and they released it. Same thing for the Lansing area. Who knows maybe there are hybreds...


----------



## Bwana (Sep 28, 2004)

If I ever see a Cougar in Michigan I will NOT tell anyone on this site. :lol:


----------



## Mickey Finn (Jan 21, 2005)

Jeez, lets just see the video first!


----------



## wyle_e_coyote (Aug 13, 2004)

What I find most intriguing about this thread is that Banditto has a helicopter !!

I want a ride...


----------



## maxemus (Jan 13, 2002)

Is there a video??


----------



## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

If that was my video I would copyright it before I made it public. that way you can control who would be using your video for making money (ratings) etc. there are a couple media people who would never get access, if it was mine.


----------



## luv 2 bowhunt (Mar 27, 2005)

I saw a cougar ten years ago in the Upper Penninsula, I was skeptical also until that October day. I was just turning a corner onto a different road so I was only going about 10 to 15 miles an hour and this huge cat jumped across the road in front of my truck. It wasn't a bobcat, house cat, sascquach, or a ufo, I am certain that it was a cougar. :SHOCKED: 

It was more grayish in color, and it's tail was impressive, very long and large diameter. 

Just last fall a woman hit a large cat in this area and dna has proved that the hair left on her bumper is DEFINATELY from a cougar.


----------



## ranger06 (Jul 26, 2004)

> Is there a video??


Yes the guy with the video is currently up steelhead fishing, we will try adn get him ot post it when he gets back


----------



## glock29 (Mar 16, 2005)

The people I find hilarious are the ones who say...Pet Cougars are being released into the wild....:lol:


----------



## Lunker (Aug 27, 2001)

Is there a video??


----------



## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

ranger06 said:


> Like i said i did'nt want to sound RUDE BUT those are pretty strong words !!
> 
> Thanks Linda
> 
> ...



And I thought I would stay outta this but I guess I got pushed in by people :lol: 

AW


----------



## Pigpen69 (Feb 20, 2001)

Buddy Lee said:


> A video doesn't prove a thing.


I suppose you wouldnt believe it if you were runnin the camera either? Are you always so negative about everything, or do ya have bad dreams about COUGARS??


----------



## icedperch (Jan 7, 2001)

glock29-The people I find hilarious are the ones who say...Pet Cougars are being released into the wild....

Not sure what you meant by this, but the released pet idea is pretty solid. Hell your average housecat will do just fine if left on its own. In fact, domestic housecats (not even feral) do a tremendous amount of damage to song birds and small mammals.

Why would a couger have any greater problem?

Just my .02


----------



## Hi Ho Silver_ Larry (Jun 28, 2003)

Yes there is a video. Of a Pet Cougar thats been released into the wild, or another house cat.


----------



## CrazyJ (Dec 17, 2004)

wyle_e_coyote said:


> What I find most intriguing about this thread is that Banditto has a helicopter !!
> 
> I want a ride...


LOL


----------



## Big50blaster (Feb 4, 2005)

If your buddy has a video of a cougar eatin on a deer he best make several copys of it for he goes and give it to anyone. I has herd of people givin tapes like this to state ajencies but then they dont git em back. One guy was reel mad when he didnt git his tape back but he was told to prove he gave them the tape. I could say I just gave you five dollars but there aint no ways to prove it. Might all just be storys but might not be ether.


----------



## DEERHNTR (Mar 12, 2004)

This cougar sighting thing is Hilarious! It reminds me of the documentaries you see on T.V. about Big Foot and UFO's :lol: On one hand we have believers and on the other we have non-believers. TOO FUNNY!

I just don't understand why people think that Wild Cougars couldn't reside in the U.P. The habitat seems like its almost ideal for them (lots of unoccupied space with critters to eat). Look at the Wolf population its growing out of control so what makes people think that a few cougars couldn't be running around.


----------



## ranger06 (Jul 26, 2004)

> *Maybe in the U.P. not down here* Yes there is a video. Of a Pet Cougar thats been released into the wild, or another house cat


 
WRONG its IS down here SOOOO why doesnt everyone shhhh for a minute drive to Clio MI and see the video ?!?!


----------



## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

ranger06 said:


> WRONG its IS down here SOOOO why doesnt everyone shhhh for a minute drive to Clio MI and see the video ?!?!


How much do tickets cost? Is the popcorn free? Do we need reservations? What are the show times?  

 :lol: :lol:


----------



## mich buckmaster (Nov 20, 2001)

Swamp Monster said:


> How much do tickets cost? Is the popcorn free? Do we need reservations? What are the show times?
> 
> :lol: :lol:



LMAO!!!!!! :lol:


----------



## wyle_e_coyote (Aug 13, 2004)

Alright...sounds like a fun day, Helicopter rides and a movie..I'm in!


----------



## ranger06 (Jul 26, 2004)

$5.50 for adults children 11 and under FREE !!! popcorn is provided, especially if someone brings a Helicopter........


----------



## explodingvarmints (Jul 1, 2004)

i got an idea.......... you take the helicopter with all of the people who think that a cougar just could not be in michigan and fly over the area that the cougar was spotted! maybe they will see it (i know i'm a genius):lol: . oh yeah if you don't see the cougar and there all "see i told ya so" than you can give em a hell ride and get em real sick for being not so nice. one more thing popcorn optional. i can't wait to see this video!


----------



## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

I really don't think there are many, if any, members that actually think there can't be one or more cougars running around Michigan. The only conflict that I can see is the debate over if there is a "breeding" population here and did it occur naturally or otherwise.

Unfortunately, that question won't be answered by a sighting or a video.

Neal


----------



## DuckMan (Jan 18, 2000)

Neal said:


> I really don't think there are many, if any, members that actually think there can't be one or more cougars running around Michigan. The only conflict that I can see is the debate over if there is a "breeding" population here and did it occur naturally or otherwise.
> 
> Unfortunately, that question won't be answered by a sighting or a video.
> 
> Neal


Unless of course the video shows a MI cougar holding a current edition of the Traverse City Record Eagle while breeding another MI cougar in front of the Sleeping Bear Sand dunes sign.

Even then there would be doubters.

:lol:


----------



## Randy Kidd (Apr 21, 2001)

I wonder if the same lab that is processing the five coyote pics is doing the video of the cougar too?


----------



## Magnet (Mar 2, 2001)

With all the publicity, I heard that it is going to be "Pay Per View" only. Right after the next Tison fight.


----------



## Big50blaster (Feb 4, 2005)

Magnet said:


> With all the publicity, I heard that it is going to be "Pay Per View" only. Right after the next Tison fight.


 
I hopes they puts it on pay per view cause I dont wanna ride in a helipcopter! They drops like rock if the motor quits!:lol:


----------



## kcud rellik (Mar 9, 2005)

What ever happened to posting this video? Or do we have to buy tickets and all?:lol: :lol: Good stuff. The pet theory... How many pet cougars are there in michigan and how many people just decide to one day let it go?


----------



## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

With the passage of the Wolf Dog/Big Cat act in 89, a lot of folks got rid of their wolf dogs and cougars, how is a good question. There were new requirements enacted regarding neutering the animals, restrictions on sales of litters and breeding, and expensive caging and fencing became mandatory. A lot of people decided that was too much to deal with, apparently, because for several years after that we had a rash of "wolf" sightings, cougars too, although the cougars were reported less often. 

But there's still pet cougars in this state being kept legally. I know of four currently being kept legally as pets here in northern Michigan, since the owners had them before the legislation passed, they're "grandfathered", and can keep the animals until they die of old age-I know of two cougars that are now quite aged, one is 15, the other 16. I'm sure there's a lot more out there. 

Other than the state regs, there's very little enforcement of this issue, unless someone complains or the animal gets loose. Regulation is more or less left up to the county or city authorities-with the local animal control expected to do the inspections and surveillance of exotic animal owners. 

The DNR only gets involved when there's a problem, because these are pets, not wild animals. 

There aren't very many, but at one time there was at least a couple of hundred pet cougars in this state, according to one vetrinarian in the Flint area that I talked to last year that many of the cougar owners used because of his expertise with big cats. He estimated that number is now about 70-100 cougars, statewide.


----------



## Dedge (Sep 22, 2004)

I wanna see Tyson fight the Cougar:evil:

Dan


----------



## SR-Mechead (Jan 25, 2004)

I think its great .Finally a picture. End of story. There are cougars in the state of Mich.


----------



## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

I just went back through this thread and didn't see any photos or videos-has something been added?

I do have this photo, of Nina, a pet cougar that was born in captivity in the UP and has spent her life in Antrim County, Michigan. Nina will be 16 this year, in my photo gallery:


----------



## SR-Mechead (Jan 25, 2004)

Linda G. said:


> I just went back through this thread and didn't see any photos or videos-has something been added?
> 
> I do have this photo, of Nina, a pet cougar that was born in captivity in the UP and has spent her life in Antrim County, Michigan. Nina will be 16 this year, in my photo gallery:
> 
> Linda I don't see a pink ribbon around her neck. So I think she is not only wild ,but also fat. :lol:


----------



## DEERHNTR (Mar 12, 2004)

So where is this mysterious cougar video...... These things never seem to materialize.

Speaking of paper view I want to see the "U.P. Cougar" take on "Big Foot"


----------



## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Maybe they watched it a second time after the hops and barley wore off!!! :lol: :lol:


----------



## BVW (Jul 25, 2002)

Lol! Good one swamp monster.


----------



## deerslayer#1 (Nov 8, 2004)

Give it some time. The video is real, just let a few things happen first.


----------



## Spoon3234 (Jun 26, 2002)

I saw a picture two weeks ago of a cougar shot near Kalkaska last winter. For all I know it was photoshopped or shot somewhere else entirely but it was believable enough for me.


----------



## Buddy Lee (Dec 17, 2003)

Spoon3234 said:


> I saw a picture two weeks ago of a cougar shot near Kalkaska last winter. For all I know it was photoshopped or shot somewhere else entirely but it was believable enough for me.


You should call the DNR. Killing a cougar in MI is against the law.


----------



## Ed Michrina (Dec 25, 2002)

Depends how it was killed


----------



## SR-Mechead (Jan 25, 2004)

Hell I think seeing a cougar in Michigan is against the law. :lol: If someone says they saw a cougar others are looking for a tree to hang the person.


----------



## Buddy Lee (Dec 17, 2003)

Ed Michrina said:


> Depends how it was killed


He said it was shot.


----------



## Ed Michrina (Dec 25, 2002)

I'm sure it was shot in self defednce.


----------



## theduke (Apr 14, 2005)

there is more build up to this video than the new star wars. Then again the cougar has to be better than star wars


----------



## Buddy Lee (Dec 17, 2003)

theduke said:


> there is more build up to this video than the new star wars. Then again the cougar has to be better than star wars


If the cougar eats jar-jar binks this video will be the best ever!


----------



## Hamilton Reef (Jan 20, 2000)

Cougar sighting debate rages on 

"The Cougar Network is nothing but a bunch of crackpots. Anything they might say is open to question." 

http://hometownlife.com/SterlingHei...te=Thursday, April 21, 2005&RefDate=4/21/2005


----------



## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

But Dennis Figalkowski, executive director of the Michigan Wildlife Conservancy, who was quoted in a previous Mirror story saying the animal likely was a cougar because of its long, black-tipped tail and that it appeared to walk and act like a cougar, isn't buying that. 

In fact, he said Monday, "The Cougar Network is nothing but a bunch of crackpots. Anything they might say is open to question." 


Dennis Figalkowski and the Michigan Wildlife Conservancy are a bunch of crackpots! They have yet to show any legitimacy, so everything they say is open to question!!


----------



## tom wilde (Jan 24, 2005)

shoot em if you see em thats it shoot them off get rid of them n dont tell no body


----------



## BuckBuster (Mar 31, 2005)

I'm from NH & we've heard reports of cougar sightings for years along the Canadian border.They all can't be liars.I believe it could happen Michigan.Maybe I'm naive.NOT


----------



## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

Either there is a video or there is not if there is post it so we can see it if not be quiet and lets us forget about these bogus claims that there ia a video somewhere :rant: We have heard about thisd video for weeks now and we were supposed to see it right away BS I say there is not video otherwise it would be out by now.

AW


----------



## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Adam, Be patient, it takes a while for the video experts at MWC to do there handy work. I'm sure it's in their hands now. Making Garfield look like a Wild Cougar isn't easy work! :lol: :lol: :lol: :evil:


----------



## CrazyJ (Dec 17, 2004)

Hello


----------



## BVW (Jul 25, 2002)

I have never seen a 3 toed sloth in Michigan, that doesn't mean that they are here. That " I have never seen a...." agruement can be use for any animal on earth. It does not prove that Cougars have been living and breeding in Michigan for the last 100 years. Nothing proves that, but some how every other animal in michigan can be proven, why not a huge cat that has lived here before man and has never left? Any of these other great michigan animals, wolves, bobcat, coyote, fox, bear can be found within a weeks time by most trackers or houndsman. Even though most of us have never seen some of these animals. Now the magical cougar has not been found since the early 1900's. I think that is a good sign that they are gone. If not it would be one of the most amazing animal stories ever. And to be breeding and maintianing a populaition this whole time would be near a miracle.. Simply if there are enough to maintain breeding there are enough to have some evidence. I do think it would be neat-O to have them here, but i have to look that the logic before my emotions.
I am not sure why people think the cougar is returning. Returning from where? Not returing from other bordering states, they don't have them either. What is the biologic reason why they are increasing in population now? We have less land and more people. 
This reminds me of a guy i hunt with that told me that the old lady that owns the land he hunts on told him that there is a bobcat around the house and property. I said, " cool, they are rare down here but i know we have them around". Then i asked him to describe it, he said " it's solid black", i then told him that bobcats are not solid black. This is a guy who has been hunting for the last 40 years and did not know what a bobcat looked like. So i can see how people see a large cat, larger than a house cat, and cry Cougar. There used to be a story of a Black panther around here, but there is no such species as a Black panther, but there were plenty of sightings, go figure. We also had a walaby hit by a car not far from here, so right now there is more evidence of a kangaroo population than Cougars.
To all that beleive we have a cougar population here in Mi Please answer this, Why hasn't indiana or ohio found a cougar yet either? Some of the videos and sighting are happening right on the border. What is the explanation for this phenominon? 
I guess we can give all the reasons in the world why there can't be a popultion of cougars, but there will always be people that will believe it becasue they think it's neat..


----------



## woodsrat (Jan 4, 2005)

Linda G. said:


> You live in Warren, right? I wouldn't expect that you would see a lot of wolves, coyotes, cougars or anything else. People who live up north and drive the area daily, particularly in the winter, when wildlife is most active and more visible, are going to see a lot more wildlife than folks who visit the area occasionally.
> 
> I see or hear coyotes now on an almost daily basis, particularly in the winter. But I had one approach my turkey calling on Monday, saw him clearly standing at 70 yards or so, had a whole pack serenading me yesterday morning. Didn't do much for the turkey hunting, believe me.
> 
> ...


Translation: If you don't live "up north" Linda says you don't know what you're talking about. Linda is practicing a little "geographical bias" again.


----------



## woodsrat (Jan 4, 2005)

BVW said:


> To all that beleive we have a cougar population here in Mi Please answer this, Why hasn't indiana or ohio found a cougar yet either? Some of the videos and sighting are happening right on the border. What is the explanation for this phenominon?


My understanding is that Illinois has had two killed. One found dead-shot with an arrow and one struck by a train. The one that was hit by a train had been eating whitetail deer. Iowa has had a few killed-hit by cars and one shot. Minnesota actually had one captured in a live-trap. Wisconsin had on sighting where DNR employees confirmed the footprints. Do some research on Ohio, Michigan and Indiana DNR's where it pertains to the Cougar issue. Check to see if they have any $$$$ to study this or any other species. FOIA inter-office memos pertaining to Cougars. Very interesting.

As far as our state saying that they can tell the exact date in 1909 when the last Cougar was killed.....that is a ridiculous statement made without studies or the proper science behind it. The naysayers don't attack that though. They just accept this nearly 100 year old statement as fact and all of their theories and conjecture stem from that.


----------



## BVW (Jul 25, 2002)

woodsrat said:


> As far as our state saying that they can tell the exact date in 1909 when the last Cougar was killed.....that is a ridiculous statement made without studies or the proper science behind it. The naysayers don't attack that though. They just accept this nearly 100 year old statement as fact and all of their theories and conjecture stem from that.


 Of course we are going to accept that, unless you can prove otherwise? Nobody has despite all the claims. 
Tell ya what we will do. Next winter when we have snow and all these people see the cougars, we will get some people and or dogs on the tracks and follow them. I know myself and many others that will volunteer for this. 
Are ya game for this? lets stop talking about it and do something about it. You do think cougars leave tracks correct? And we would need at least a few dozen cats to have a population, so we should have no trouble getting a few sightings that can be tracked, even if they are a day or 2 old the cat will eventually crap or kill something so we can get all the evidence we will need.
Sound good? I am not messing around with this, let's give it a shot.


----------



## Ed Michrina (Dec 25, 2002)

Linda G. I only reported what I saw. Thats all. I'm sure I could sit in the same tree for the next 10 years and not get that opportunity again. I conceder it like winning the lotto. It was a beautifull anmial. Its to bad all the time you spend driving the wilds you haven't seen anything like this. 

Hear is a tip slow your veh. down, get off the cell phone, keep the kids quiet, quit eating and driving and look for animals in the road ahead of you.




Linda that last part was a Joke :evil: I couldn't resist


----------



## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

You're talking about the average suburban soccer mom, aren't you?? Not me...kids are grown and gone, cell phone is off when I'm in the car and not even with me when I'm in the woods, and I don't look for animals in the road cause I see them when they're still in the woods...  

I have seen a wild wolf, but again, only one...and that's because I don't spend time in the UP. I'm sure I'd see more if I spent more time up there...after all, I have a bird dog, and from what I hear, that's prime fare for wolves these days.


----------



## Mickey Finn (Jan 21, 2005)

For my part, I have not seen a cougar in westland yet. Thou I do see the occasional coyote in the area. This past Thanksgiving morning, I saw a red fox in Inkster!

A week before that, Well november 16 to be exact. I did see two timber wolves in marquette county, south west of qwinn. Yes Linda G. even as a suburbanite,
I can tell the difference. This was the high point of this season.

Also, I did see a three toed-sloth. In Royal oak.


----------



## Bwana (Sep 28, 2004)

n.pike said:


> My point is this..Ed M and others may have seen a wolf up here, I firmly believe them. As for cougars, I & my wife have personally seen one in Glennie, and know 4 other people that have seen one here, including one who called on his cell to describe it to me as he watched it.


Tell me the Cougar siting in Glennie were near the Reid Lake Foot Trails in the area just West of the Stout & Fowler intersection and I'll tell you of two guys that thought they saw a Cougar up there but decided that it "couldn't have been". 

As for wolves in the area, we/I heard a "coyote" howl that was very onerous sounding. :lol: And since I am an avid yote hunter I have heard them answer calls countless times. I am not making any accusations but I do wonder if they have gotten down into the Hiawatha. It is logical as it is the largest contigious forested area in the NELP and we know at least one showed up in the NELP.


----------



## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

Who said anything like suburbanites can't identify wild critters? Not me...read that again. This is how threads get way out of whack...what I said is that if you live downstate, and presumably, spend most of your time there, then you're not likely to see as many of these types of critters as someone who lives in their habitat does...

But yes, those critters are moving in on suburbia, because they have no where else to go, so they've learned how to adapt. Very well...know where you can see more coyotes during the day than almost any other part of the state? Redford...and foxes are dining very well on suburban cats these days...


----------



## Freestone (May 15, 2003)

So Cougars exist in surrounding states but not ours that's interesting. I don't think the average person who spots a cougar is going to feel compelled to call in trackers and dogs and contact every media outlet just to prove to everyone that they exist in Michigan.

The arguments will be the same. "It's an escaped pet". "Prove that the video or picture was taken in Michigan". "That doesn't prove that a breeding population exists". 

I for one am patient and open minded enough to wait and see if and when someone comes up with the required evidence to prove the skeptics wrong. If that happens the backpeddling will be quite entertaining.


----------



## Magnet (Mar 2, 2001)

Mickey Finn said:


> Also, I did see a three toed-sloth. In Royal oak.


..........and what was her name? LOL


----------



## woodsrat (Jan 4, 2005)

BVW said:


> Of course we are going to accept that, unless you can prove otherwise? Nobody has despite all the claims.
> Tell ya what we will do. Next winter when we have snow and all these people see the cougars, we will get some people and or dogs on the tracks and follow them. I know myself and many others that will volunteer for this.
> Are ya game for this? lets stop talking about it and do something about it. You do think cougars leave tracks correct? And we would need at least a few dozen cats to have a population, so we should have no trouble getting a few sightings that can be tracked, even if they are a day or 2 old the cat will eventually crap or kill something so we can get all the evidence we will need.
> Sound good? I am not messing around with this, let's give it a shot.


You are going to accept a statement that is totally unproven and almost 100 years old? A statement that was made when the state's population was only a fraction of what it is today? A statement that was made by a fledgling state conservation department who had minimum staffing, minimum funding and no modern methods of science or locating/counting animals? I find it interesting that the original statement from the conservation department at that time said they "believed" that the Cougar was the last one in the state. It NEVER said that they knew with absolute certainty that it was the last Cougar. Somehow, that statement got transformed into what it is today...."the last Cougar was killed on such and such date". Interesting how history gets changed to suit our needs. 

How did you come up with "a few dozen" Cougars equals a breeding population theory? Is that magic number your own creation or is there some basis in science there that I may not be familiar with? To answer your question, yes I believe Cougars leave tracks. The proof of that already exists in many forms. I know YOU don't believe it, but it does exist.

As far as looking for a Cougar with you I will decline your offer. It would be a total waste of time to look for something that YOU don't believe to exist in spite of evidence to the contrary. It would almost be like working a murder case with a partner who believes the crime was a suicide. An exercise in futility and a complete waste of time, money and gas. Good luck with YOUR search though. I'm sure you will come back with absolute proof that Cougars DO NOT exist in Michigan. :lol: 

I look forward to the release of the video.


----------



## n.pike (Aug 23, 2002)

Just like the Ivory-billed woodpecker that has been extinct in Arkansas for 60 years, it showed up on video this week. Their wildlife dept got that one right.


----------



## PWood (Aug 6, 2004)

n.pike said:


> Just like the Ivory-billed woodpecker that has been extinct in Arkansas for 60 years, it showed up on video this week. Their wildlife dept got that one right.


Actually, the ivory-billed woodpecker hasn't been observered in the entire U.S. in more than 60 years. And with all those bird watchers out there too.


----------



## n.pike (Aug 23, 2002)

PWood said:


> Actually, the ivory-billed woodpecker hasn't been observered in the entire U.S. in more than 60 years. And with all those bird watchers out there too.



Actually I watched the video on channel 5 news this morning.


----------



## vancreek (Apr 4, 2004)

i could remain totally neutral here,is someone will notify me of a current sighting with a track to start on (be it snow or dirt but a clear track)i would gladly go to the location and try and find the critter that is the cause of all this controversy,i would ask for email notification and a photo of the track,thanks,maybe we can get to the end of this discussion.


----------



## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

have at it this Sunday guys.  

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?p=790489#post790489


----------



## 2tundras (Jan 11, 2005)

Where oh where are you big cat​​​​Why did you lead me here to da woods​​​​I searched the Yoop over and thought I found good scat​​​[/color]​Turns out yer an otter, & PBLLLT, I ain't got jack​
​


----------



## 2tundras (Jan 11, 2005)

MI will really have cats the day I look out my window into the 4,000 acre swamp behind me, and see a big male drilling a female with a cub in her mouth and the cub is saying "Daddy, whatcha doing to Mommy."

Enough already. Geeeez.


----------



## BVW (Jul 25, 2002)

Woodrat,
100 years ago was the last time their has been a Cougar confirmed, why should i believe that is false? I still have not seen where you can prove that is wrong? You believe this to be wrong because??? 100 years of 0 evidence is why i beleive it's wrong.I am waiting for you to prove to me this was a lie..... Maybe it's the other way around, maybe that killed cougar never happend by the under staffed crooked DNR? Maybe it's more like 150 years since the last cougar was confirmed?? 
You wont look for a cougar with me?? I am willing to go look , you are not? huh? What are you afraid of? It seems like your the one that does not think they are breeding here. Your just getting silly now. Vancreek is your man, if you think so some reason a real cougar isn't good enough for me, than there are many others that can step in. 

Ya, it will be great if the wildlife biologists are wrong, and hear say is right! That would be sweat! in those jerks face! 
People that think cougars are Not living and breeding here think that for logical reasons, and because we have 0 cougars bodies, cougars on film, eaten animals ect... why do you guys get mad at people believing there are no cougars for those reasons?? You think there is something wrong with someone that doesn't beleive we have breeding cougars even though there is no evidence of them here for 100 years?? That bogles my mind. Should we think they are here because of non-confimed sightings? Sorry kids that's not even close to good enough for me. For some of you it is more than good enough i guess. Imagine if our hunting laws were set-up by this non-confimed hear say reasoning!! So cougar believers would not have a problem with the DNR if they said no deer hunting this year because the hunters say there are not that many deer in michigan, (we have all heard this from hunters). Point is I don't take hear say as fact, even though i really think cougars are cool.
Cougar beleivers must think there are cougars because it would be exciting and because "it's posssible i guess" so they must be here, and because "the MWC said so". 
Cougars in surrouning states???? A wondering cougar that makes its way to north west minnesota from montana does not confrim a breeding population in Michigan for the last 100 years, unless you think the cougar came from michigan and made its way to minnesota? instead of it coming from Montana to Minnesota? That is not the topic, many animals migrate, the coyote for 1. nobody is debating that, the topic is that some believe cougars have been here all along. If it's just that you think they made their way from the west and eventully will inhabit michigan, Fine, that makes sense to me, and is somewhat possible. Indiana has 0 cougar confimations Ohio 0 as well. This is where it matters for a Breeding population in Michigan's LP they should be in those states as well unless they don't cross borders. 
There are plenty of other illusive animals that you guys can get excited about, like the Badger. We have badgers in Michigan! Even though i bet very few people have seen them, but they end up in traps every year. They live underground most of thier lives and we some how are able to get evidence of thier existance here. Why not a 100+ pound cat? 
I just want the cougar fans to explain and convince me that they have been breeding here, and tell me how they have avioded detection for the last 100 years. Most of you are pretty positive they are here, i just want to know why you are so sure of this despite the lack of evidence? I never see much on these cougar posts on the science of how cougars could live and breed without detection, where in other states with 25% less people and 4X more land they are easily found and photographed. 
I Dont beleive they are here for reasons like:: If there were a population of cougars they would be soo sparse that inbreeding would take place and poor genitics will certainly kill off the couple of cougars that people say are around. Cougars have a hard life and have to work hard to servive, throw inbreeding in there and it's impossible to maintain a healthy breeding population/ Now it's the believers turn: you beleive cougars have maintained a breeding popultion because:>>>>>??
Teach me the secret of our cougars. Please no more unlce billybob saw one while snipe hunting stories, and he called me and described it to me on the phone. I can call you and describe a elephant in my backyard also.
Thanks, and by the way can't wait for that video that will make us look like jerks! I better start preparing my backtracking :lol: How much longer deeslayer1?


----------



## wyle_e_coyote (Aug 13, 2004)

I am still waiting for more info on the cougar that was supposedly hit in Menominee Co. 
If a car hits a cougar hard enough to get hair samples from the bumper, the cat did not make it far. Why did no one look for it? if they did why did they not find it? If they did find it why is it such a secret? These are the things that make me feel that cougar sightings are a hoax. I mean they comfirm the hair samples, now all the sudden it is swept under the carpet for us all to forget about. I wonder if this was just a cleaver hoax???
Of all the "cougar" sightings and encounters, _that_ shold be the one that is closely looked into. I have said it before, and I will say it again, *if* WILD cougars are in Michigan, they will be in the found in the eastern UP, not a little east of Detriot!!!!


----------



## Magnet (Mar 2, 2001)

Michigan's UP cougar hair samples could have been collected out West or at Cabelas  for that matter. For someone to claim that they hit a cougar with their car and give the hair samples to the authorities and not have anything come from it has "hoax" written all over it as far as I concerned. For someone to talk about a video of a "Michigan cougar" and offer to show it in a couple days and then three weeks later still no video sends me the same message.


----------



## deerslayer#1 (Nov 8, 2004)

Magnet said:


> Michigan's UP cougar hair samples could have been collected out West or at Cabelas  for that matter. For someone to claim that they hit a cougar with their car and give the hair samples to the authorities and not have anything come from it has "hoax" written all over it as far as I concerned. For someone to talk about a video of a "Michigan cougar" and offer to show it in a couple days and then three weeks later still no video sends me the same message.


Who offered to show it in a couple days? If you look at my first post I said, "As soon as I can".


----------



## Big50blaster (Feb 4, 2005)

BVW said:


> Woodrat,
> 100 years of 0 evidence is why i beleive it's wrong.I am waiting for you to prove to me this was a lie.....


Has ya ever herd a liddle story bout a former DNR topdog that casted a cougar track ways back in the 60's?:lol:


----------



## Big50blaster (Feb 4, 2005)

deerslayer#1 said:


> Who offered to show it in a couple days? If you look at my first post I said, "As soon as I can".


I thanks that ya does has a video of a cougar on the way!

I also thanks that there is many people on this here sight that is really just one if ya knows what I mean. 

I also thanks that some of them just caint stand it that you really does have a cougar film and they aint in on it!:lol: :evil: :rant:


----------



## BVW (Jul 25, 2002)

Big50blaster said:


> Has ya ever herd a liddle story bout a former DNR topdog that casted a cougar track ways back in the 60's?:lol:


 Not sure what you typed exactly, but i have not seen any topdog tracks??


----------



## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Big50...your posts are always a hoot, but reading them is just plain brutal! I'm still trying to figure out your "normal" screen name though. Is that you Buddy!? :lol:


----------



## woodsrat (Jan 4, 2005)

Here's another one of those pesky critters that isn't a Cougar. Must be a yellow Lab.:lol:​ 

Trail Camera Photo
Perry County, Arkansas
August 2003






 

3


----------



## woodsrat (Jan 4, 2005)

Here's another one of those yellow Labs in Southeast Minnesota. Darn things are eatin' all the Whitetail deer. Somebody call the dog catcher!!!!


 
Cougar roams Minnesota River bottomland in Savage.


----------



## wyle_e_coyote (Aug 13, 2004)

Sorry woodsrat, But that first pic you posted, supposedly from Arkansas...well
it looks allot like the one with cougar/elk, or cougar/muledeer, or cougar/whitetail, I have even seen it with cougar/pappa smurf...I think someone just reversed the lion and removed its pray...now the second one is a new pic(to me), but there are lions in other state, so the pic could have come from anywhere. Plus I think cougars have been documented by the Minnisota DNR, right??...not sure why it is walking past the dead deer. You would think that all the effort/movement it would have taken to get the deer down, or to drag it to that spot would have snapped off a few trail cam pics, huh?

I vote hoax!!!


----------



## BVW (Jul 25, 2002)

Nice pics woodsrat,
Not sure what your point is though? Do think these Cougars were born in Michigan or something? Oh ya, i forgot to mention i have some left handed hammers for sale, let me know if your interested. Just messing, great pics anyway.
BVW-


----------



## woodsrat (Jan 4, 2005)

wyle_e_coyote said:


> Sorry woodsrat, But that first pic you posted, supposedly from Arkansas...well
> it looks allot like the one with cougar/elk, or cougar/muledeer, or cougar/whitetail, I have even seen it with cougar/pappa smurf...I think someone just reversed the lion and removed its pray...now the second one is a new pic(to me), but there are lions in other state, so the pic could have come from anywhere. Plus I think cougars have been documented by the Minnisota DNR, right??...not sure why it is walking past the dead deer. You would think that all the effort/movement it would have taken to get the deer down, or to drag it to that spot would have snapped off a few trail cam pics, huh?
> 
> I vote hoax!!!


O.K. That is your opinion. It doesn't coincide with mine, but so be it.

My point is that many other states had previously reported that their population of Cougars were long gone. Iowa, the Dakotas, Minnesota, Illinois, Nebraska, eastern provinces in Canada, etc. 10-15 years ago people were reporting sightings in those states and got treated like they claimed to have seen Elvis in a Burger King. Just like the treatment they get here in good ole Michigan. Now most of those states have confirmed Cougars. Fact: Cougars have been migrating eastward. Some people estimate that the U.S. has a larger population of Cougars than we had in the early 1800's. Quebec, Manitoba and Ontario have had many sightings and confirmations by way of hair and scat. Some of the states listed above have had Cougars killed, photographed, videotaped and one captured. Some of the same evidence has been presented here in Michigan, only to be ridiculed and ignored by the state. 

Are these cats leftovers from the original populations? I don't know. But, it also doesn't matter. They are wild Cougars and where boy Cougar meets girl Cougar there are little baby Cougars. That equals a breeding population. 

By the way. I look forward to the release of this video. You naysayers who have complained that there is no video have caused the delay in the release of the video. I'm sure that this video will be fully examined prior to any public release, which I think is a good thing.


----------



## woodsrat (Jan 4, 2005)

April 26, 2005
North Mankato, Minnesota

*Cougar again* Another cougar sighting in North Mankato

The late-night call came in over the weekend. A resident near the Lake Street hillside area reported a cougar in the woods there. Three officers responded, and one accompanied the original caller up the hillside. The officer reported they could hear a growling noise, and that they got within 50 yards of the animal, and shined a flashlight on what the officer says was a cougar. The creature was described as about 150 pounds, with amber-yellow eyes. As the officer and the caller tried to get closer, the cat ran off and disappeared.

Cougar sightings have become more frequent in recent years, and a cougar was reported in the same part of North Mankato last October.

The nearest viable cougar population is in the Black Hills, but individual cougars have been found to follow river valleys, ranging as far as southern Minnesota.

Cougars are generally not a threat to humans, and they could be attracted here by the deer population.

Source: Pete Steiner 


For those who are unfamiliar with Minnesota, this city is located in the SE part of the state.


----------



## BVW (Jul 25, 2002)

Your relentless woodsrat!! 

"_Woodsrat Quote::Are these cats leftovers from the original populations? I don't know. But, it also doesn't matter. They are wild Cougars and where boy Cougar meets girl Cougar there are little baby Cougars. That equals a breeding population_."

Ok woody, I now understand your point of view and how your positive we have a breeding population here.   
All the "sightings" evidence your posting is showing how a Cougar has possibly made it out of it's normal range to other states. That's great! I am sure you can find the same info on other western animals as well. Maybe someday we will have a pronghorn antelope season in Michigan.
I guess i am arguing the the wrong subject, i was saying that we don't have a breeding poplution here due to the fact that we don't have wild Cougars in Michigan.
So i guess we are done.  
By the way which route are the Cougars taking to get to michigan's LP? If they have been shot by arrows and captured in Iowa and Illinois then they must be taking the southern route to Michigan. Maybe from Chicago to Gary Indiana, battle creek then Sterling Hieghts!!...Oh my god they are taking highway 94!! what a break through! Or do your Cougars swim Lake Michigan? Then they will be here even faster! Maybe the fairy from Milwaukee to ludginton? And a male Cougar can do all this without detection and then meet a girlfriend and have babies, wow what a life! These Cougars sure are lucky!! Sorry again woodsrat, just poken fun at your expense. 
Keep the faith brother, and i'll see you this winter with my tracking boots!
BVW-


----------



## woodsrat (Jan 4, 2005)

BVW said:


> You relentless woodsrat!! So let me get this straight. Do you believe the Cougars that are here are coming from the west or have been here all along? All the "sightings" evidence your posting is showing how a Cougar has possibly made it out of it's normal range to other states. That's great! I am sure you can find the same info on other western animals as well. Maybe someday we will have a pronghorn antelope season in Michigan.
> I guess i am arguing the the wrong subject, i was saying that we don't have a breeding poplution here due to the fact that we don't have wild Cougars in Michigan.
> So i guess we are done.
> By the way which route are the Cougars taking to get to michigan's LP? If they have been shot by arrows and captured in Iowa and Illinois then they must be taking the southern route to Michigan. Maybe from Chicago to Gary Indiana, battle creek then Sterling Hieghts!!...Oh my god they are taking highway 94!! what a break through! Or do your Cougars swim Lake Michigan? Then they will be here even faster! Maybe the fairy from Milwaukee to ludginton? Sorry again woodsrat, just poken fun at your expense.
> ...


Doesn't matter. If they are remnants of the original population, migrating animals or released/escaped pets who are living in the wild and are breeding, that equals a "breeding population" in my book. 

Wild animals don't view cities, roadways or reasonably sized bodies of water as obstacles that cannot be circumvented. Some Cougar travel great distances. Especially, young male Cougars who routinely travel great distances to areas not inhabited by more dominant male Cougars. 

As far as being "relentless".....I guess I am. I would have been on your side prior to 2003. Now I know what I know and don't care if you or anybody else disagrees with me. Sorry.

As far as next winter goes.....again, no thank you.


----------



## BVW (Jul 25, 2002)

woodsrat said:


> Doesn't matter. If they are remnants of the original population, migrating animals or released/escaped pets who are living in the wild and are breeding, that equals a "breeding population" in my book.


 Oh that's the problem, we are arguing over YOUR book  Why didn't you say so? Geez all of this could have been avioded if we knew we were dealing with your book. Where can i get a copy? Sounds like entertaining reading. See ya this winter with my tracking hat and mittens! Can't wait to see one of these cougars from your book.
See ya in january!


----------



## Salami (Dec 23, 2004)

I supose the wolverine came up I-75:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Salami (Dec 23, 2004)

Well with the changes in wildlife ranges i've seen over the past few years (more coyotes more turkyes and now wolverine) it does not suprize me a bit to have cougar here! ive only seen 2 yotes 2 mink 1 pine martin 1 bobcat or lynks not sure? 0 ten point whitetails in the wild in 35+ yrs of sitting in the woods and there are thousands of these animals in michigan so if there are 20 lions here don't expect to see one with your on eyes.But as you travel through the dark woods and hear some purrrrrrring in the trees just remember theres no lions in michigan. hear kitty kitty:tdo12:


----------



## Outdoorzman (Jun 5, 2001)

I wish I had the time to argue...........too much to do outside.
Don't feed the trolls.


----------



## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

woodsrat said:


> By the way. I look forward to the release of this video. You naysayers who have complained that there is no video have caused the delay in the release of the video. I'm sure that this video will be fully examined prior to any public release, which I think is a good thing.


Now your reaching...the naysayers caused the delay in the release of this video?? Thats a good laugh! It's the naysayers fault that someone jumped on the braggin' board a little to soon?!


Woods, being an leo, I would think you would have a better understanding of what real evidence consists of. Photos of cats 200-500 miles away won't get you many convictions. Sketchy video that has been discredited by numerous sources won't get you many convictions. To date, the only proof we have are some hair samples from an alledged car/Cougar collision in the UP that has become so secretive that an leo like yourself can't even come up with the info that should be public record. Excuse me for not jumping on your bandwagon, but your doing a poor job of presenting your case. I have said all along, I don't doubt that their are a handful of Cougars running around this state. Do I think they are living and breeding near Sterling Heights or Tecumseh? No I do not. And the only way you would be so sure we had a breeding population of cats would be if you saw a pair actually breeding. If you are not prepared to say this or provide evidence of such activity than what your are discussing is nothing more than _your theory_. But, please, don't pass your theory off as evidence, because it is not enough to make a case. It's fine to have your own assumptions and opinions, we all have them, but you trying to pass them off has fact is a laugh.


----------

