# Duckwater layout



## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

From the photos posted he is making major layout builder rookie mistake. 

TJ better help him out before its too late and he has to go back to the drawing board. LOL

Not much anyone can bring to the table for the layout market that isn't already there or been tried and failed. I find it extremely interesting that a Boat builder such as Duck Water Boats would being going backwards and into $1000.00 layouts from $20,000 aluminum duck boats. When he claims fiberglass boats are inferior on his website. Makes one wonder especially when the market and amount of profit made on a layout isn't very much in todays world. Petroleum based products have sky rocketed the last 10 years. We originally (9yrs ago) were buying resin for less than 400.00 a drum. Now its over 800.00. If we were paying employees to build our boats we wouldn't be building them. Simple as that. 

Why someone would want to get into layout boat manufacturing when the obvious number one builder for the past several years has gone awall from the business is beyond me. . 



But what do I know. LOL


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

tonyhomer said:


> Not much anyone can bring to the table for the layout market that isn't already there or been tried and failed.


I think there is plenty of opportunity for Bankes yet to make a pull on board version of the hurcules. IMO.




tonyhomer said:


> When he claims fiberglass boats are inferior on his website.


You should probably keep his comments in context if referencing them. I'd guess he meant open water duck boats. 




tonyhomer said:


> Why someone would want to get into layout boat manufacturing when the obvious number one builder for the past several years has gone awall from the business is beyond me. .


Maybe because there is a void there now with people calling MLB wanting to purchase and not getting the phone answered.

The area is definetly in need of a local layout builder that can build a quality boat. Right now the only options are 200 miles away in Port Rowan or 1600 miles away in Utah.


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## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

TSS Caddis said:


> I think there is plenty of opportunity for Bankes yet to make a pull on board version of the hurcules. IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol. Didnt i see somewhere duck water was making a glass 18ft duck boat as well? 

As for quality of boats. Thats a good one but i think there are several hundred guys out there who will disagree with you.


My poing was simple. Duck water boats im sure makes alot more money on aluminum boats and with the cost of composites now days its tough to make a dollar in small boats. Exactly why we bought tdb and armstrong boats.

Dont you think if there was so much money here mlb woud be answering the phone and the guy in utah would be building boats full time rather than wood floors?

Im glad for them. Will ease some of the work load maybe in a couple years. then we can concentrate on the tdb lineup of boats. Lol.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

tonyhomer said:


> Dont you think if there was so much money here mlb woud be answering the phone...


Who knows why they are not answering the phone, lot's of idiots making boats, so maybe they are just poor business people.


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## BFG (Mar 4, 2005)

Hey Tony...this thread isn't about questioning Duckwater's business decisions??? Why do you care if they are making layout boats? If it is your opinion that your product is superior, then let the product and testimonials do the talking....on another thread started by you about your boats! 

It's a bad business practice to run down the competition, especially on a public forum like this one.

Stick to making boats and let your product speak for itself. I know you make a good layout boat, but dang man, you have to be your own worst enemy when it comes to marketing.


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## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

TSS Caddis said:


> Who knows why they are not answering the phone, lot's of idiots making boats, so maybe they are just poor business people.


Could be i guess. Just seems strange someone would not want to make all that money.. Lol

You have no clue at all. Lol

Carry on i gotta build some more boats to bring to michigan in a couple weeks.


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## younggun7 (Nov 25, 2005)

Dude really?? I'm obviously in the market for a layout. Instead of bashing another company's business decisions, maybe you should of informed me of your boat in a pm or something. Not knowing anything about you or what you sell your coming off as kind of a dbag.

But what do I know...


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## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

BFG said:


> Hey Tony...this thread isn't about questioning Duckwater's business decisions??? Why do you care if they are making layout boats? If it is your opinion that your product is superior, then let the product and testimonials do the talking....on another thread started by you about your boats!
> 
> It's a bad business practice to run down the competition, especially on a public forum like this one.
> 
> Stick to making boats and let your product speak for itself. I know you make a good layout boat, but dang man, you have to be your own worst enemy when it comes to marketing.


The original post was to be consindered funny. Hence the lol.

And just some general info regarding layouts since comparisons were being made on a boat that obviously is still in the design stage according to all the modifications being done on fb.

Funny howothers can joke and take stabs etc and its all good. But if i try to joke around its all bad.

I apologise if it was taken as a serious post and you missed the lol part.

Back to the boat in question. I think a good idea would be to wait on the finished poduct before passing and judgements od final decissions at this point. And best of luck to steve.

Mayb he will hav the new glass boats at Pointe Moullie


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## younggun7 (Nov 25, 2005)

sswhitelightning said:


> Buy one. I'll stain up both your new boats for yea!
> 
> Still waiting on that guided walleye trip.


There's a pretty good chance of that Lol
Water pump took a crap last week. Glad I'm working the bugs out before season but damn.


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## rosimike (Mar 10, 2011)

Yeah my name is tony homer .When its comes to building boats I know it all.Why do you get banned from sites????Why can't you ever say something positive about a another company?Why do you bring up the cost issue.While your building little marsh boats.Duckwater is building true duck boats meant to take the abuse.I don't think Duckwater is worried about the cost of materials.However are you?


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## N.E. Outdoorsman (Sep 18, 2006)

So...I am in the market. I sold my Super Mag a few years ago and have missed it since.

What boat is the best for the buck?


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## rosimike (Mar 10, 2011)

Like I always say.You need to sit in them all.Than buy the one that will work for your boat and the crew you hunt with.


I wish at Point Mouille that we could have layout boats on display.From
LBLB,UFO,Bankes,Duckwater,and Mlb.

There is things about all these boats that make them great for layout shooting.


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## Wall-llard Willie (Sep 10, 2004)

N.E. I'm in the market too and here's what I've found so far with a little history. 
I've hunted out of hurcules, ufos, mlb, and homemades over the last 10 years... they all work some are better fitted for big guys, big feet ect.
[/COLOR] 
Banks:
I'm not a fan of the one man banks, its high and to me personally looks to short & stocky (that being said dimensionally it compares to the others). Its booked at 100lbs and is stickered online at $1700
Hercules is much longer at 14 feet and heavier at 200lbs. They handle the water well and tow fairly well. I think they're a little "loud" in the water, or at least the older ones I hunted in were. foot room is tight but can easily be fixed by cutting the foam out in the foot area. Very pricey at $2600

LBLB
Finally got to see one last week thanks to Flints Finest! Dimensionally this boat and the UFOs are very similar, they shapes are slightly different. LBLB is more the traditional oval. Seems well build, no give in the shell. online list it at 130 but it seem a bit more than that OR let me say the difference between the UFO and it seem like more than 5lbs as listed on the web sites. Much lower than the banks. Its listed at $1425 but you'll be tacking on another 300 to get it here. The foot room in the LBLB was much less than the modified hurcules and slightly less than the UFO (Im 510 and size 11 foot)

UFOs
Again very similar in overall dimensions to the small banks & LBLB but has more of rectangular look with large radiused corners. Height is very similar to the LBLB, shell does have some flex compaired to the heavier boats. My buddy has had his for about 5 or 6 years now and its still looks great. Has a little more foot room than the LBLB but not as much as the modified Hurcules. Listed at 125 lbs and starting price is $1200 bucks

MLB
Were nice products, dont seam to be producing boats now.

Your best bet is getting in them and making the decision if the difference is worth the money. I couldnt justify spending more money on the other makes and will be getting a UFO.


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

Ignore the Homer/Caddis feud. It does not matter what Homer says, Caddis will contradict, and then Homer will rebut, and the cycle goes on. Just read through all that, ignore it. Focus on what the one poster presented with his opinions on each layout he has been in. That is where your answers are. Unbiased, opinions. 

As for costs of materials, Homer is spot on. It has nearly tripled from ten years ago. Has the cost of a new composite boat tripled ?


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

N.E. Outdoorsman said:


> So...I am in the market. I sold my Super Mag a few years ago and have missed it since.
> 
> What boat is the best for the buck?


I got a MLB homemade replica I'm happy with. Also got a 2 man bankes revolution on the way from Jim at freeway. Hope that works out for our plans.

I like the MLB's I've been in.

I didn't care for the bankes pumpkin seed that my friend had stolen last season. Lots of spray on my back it seemed.

My friends Kalash is nice, but not very roomy for as big as it is. Nice spray curtain though.

Lblb are also quite nice from the few ice been around. 

Price wise they all are expensive to a guy like me.


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## N.E. Outdoorsman (Sep 18, 2006)

sswhitelightning said:


> I got a MLB homemade replica I'm happy with. Also got a 2 man bankes revolution on the way from Jim at freeway. Hope that works out for our plans.
> 
> I like the MLB's I've been in.
> 
> ...


Man! This layout talk has my mind wandering...I gotta check the mother line stuff and see what's missing. I am trying to remember a cool website/dealer...was it doctari, or am I thinking of something else?

I suppose I can just surf it.


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## younggun7 (Nov 25, 2005)

sswhitelightning said:


> Price wise they all are expensive to a guylike me.


Im way in the whole with student loans so I'm in the "guys like me" category. 

I looked at the banks boats at the waterfowl festival and the one man looked tiny. Didn't get in it but just looked small. 

Had full intentions on building a couple but time was a huge factor.


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## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

Bellyup said:


> Ignore the Homer/Caddis feud. It does not matter what Homer says, Caddis will contradict, and then Homer will rebut, and the cycle goes on. Just read through all that, ignore it. Focus on what the one poster presented with his opinions on each layout he has been in. That is where your answers are. Unbiased, opinions.
> 
> As for costs of materials, Homer is spot on. It has nearly tripled from ten years ago. Has the cost of a new composite boat tripled ?


Bellyup, The cost of materials along have tripled indeed. the only thing saving us and keeping us in the game is labor and the fact our shops ( just built a second 2500sq ft building) on our property and we built our buildings and have no overhead and no employee's to pay.

Simple as that, and again my intent wasn't meant to be negative but more poking a little fun with sarcasim and a wondering question of why someone would get into a market with so little margain for profit. My bad for speaking of it openly on the forum. Guess I just got caught up and rambled on alittle to much. LOL





As Before I wish DW boats the best in there second business run with fiberglass layout boats. Its truly a tough market.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

always like meh a good layout boat thread. free entertainment.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Bellyup said:


> Ignore the Homer/Caddis feud. It does not matter what Homer says, Caddis will contradict, and then Homer will rebut, and the cycle goes on. Just read through all that, ignore it. Focus on what the one poster presented with his opinions on each layout he has been in. That is where your answers are. Unbiased, opinions.
> 
> As for costs of materials, Homer is spot on. It has nearly tripled from ten years ago. Has the cost of a new composite boat tripled ?


Glad to have a layout expert like yourself chiming in. Please offer up your opinion so we can all learn from it.

I've always maintained that Tony is probably a knowledgable guy if we can find the D-Bag switch on him and turn it off. Too much of his slighted jabs and self indulgent back pats to wade through to find the useful information.


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

TSS Caddis said:


> Glad to have a layout expert like yourself chiming in. Please offer up your opinion so we can all learn from it.
> 
> I've always maintained that Tony is probably a knowledgable guy if we can find the D-Bag switch on him and turn it off. Too much of his slighted jabs and self indulgent back pats to wade through to find the useful information.


Ahhh Sarcasm. I get it now. Thanks for admiting I am an expert. Inflates my already super high ego to a new level. 

On a serious note, I know what I am talking about on cost of materials, and if anyone wants to check into that, do it. I don't fluff. I build many composite crafts every year. Not layout boats, but a more advanced craft. I have no doubts in my mind if I had the desire to design a layout boat I could advance the concepts to a higher level. But as they say, to many irons in the fire. I am content to watch you and your groupies slay them on the great lakes during the time the birds are at their peak numbers in your area that you hunt in the U.P.. And like i said, the poster would be best to heed the post on what each boat did for the one guy. Does not get any better than that. The guy did not slam any one builder, or praise any one builder as above and beyond. Just gave the stengths and weakness he had with each experience. 

Carry on.


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## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

TSS Caddis said:


> Glad to have a layout expert like yourself chiming in. Please offer up your opinion so we can all learn from it.
> 
> I've always maintained that Tony is probably a knowledgable guy if we can find the D-Bag switch on him and turn it off. Too much of his slighted jabs and self indulgent back pats to wade through to find the useful information.


No one was talking to you and speaking of the D-Bag switch? practice what you preach.

Here is the problem ever since I made a mistake years ago on the refuge and said some things I shouldn't have. Admittedly so. Everyone tends to jump all over me immediately without reading through what they are reading and considering it may not mean it exactly how your reading it. As I stated before the LOL usually means its sarcastic and or meant to be funny.

So you keep being a jackoff and hurrassing me on the forums because its obvious your intention and always has been. If not you would introduct yourself like a man and shake my hand at Pointe Moullie as we are there every year in the same exact spot. We have nothing to hide here or in person. So Man up and lets put this BS behind us. I don't know you or have any way to find you but I am very easy to find. we will have a trailer full of layouts and probably be the only manufacturer at the Pointe with layouts.

Now back to the point of my original post.

It doesn't take a scientist to know that when resin prices alone more than double and a fiberglass boat is generally 50-70% resin that the cost is going to double. For example lets make it easy for you to under stand and use a 50/50 formula. 50% glass 50% resin content in a 100lb boat. If its 50/50 and price has doubled that means production costs have double. And since resin and glass are the 2 number parts to the boat and both have increased drastically so has the cost. The mark up we builders use to have is LONG GONE. Trust me, Its nothing more than fact. 

Not sure what everyone else uses to put there boats together but we use plexus as everyone knows. the best glue money can buy and its 60.00 a tube and we use 2 a boat. So 10% of our boats retail price is in glue alone. Ever priced gelcoat or divinecel core material?

Sure we could be cheap and glass our boats together with poly resin, paint them instead of gelcoating and use wood instead of composite core and use the cheapeast resins money can buy but what does that do to the end product? 

Sorry we will pass. only the best for our boats. And anyone in the market for a boat should demand the same. And that goes for the design work of a boat as well. Doing it right the first time should be number 1 and exactly why Marine engineers get paid the big bucks.

Now I am done with this thread as its the busy season and have a few more boats to build around here. Again I would love to talk face to face with you TSS Caddis so if your at the show stop by. I don't drink or I would even offer you a beer. I'll have a coke for ya if that works.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

tonyhomer said:


> No one was talking to you and speaking of the D-Bag switch? practice what you preach.
> 
> Here is the problem ever since I made a mistake years ago on the refuge and said some things I shouldn't have. Admittedly so. Everyone tends to jump all over me immediately without reading through what they are reading and considering it may not mean it exactly how your reading it. As I stated before the LOL usually means its sarcastic and or meant to be funny.
> 
> ...


So your the victim now :lol:

Not a layout post goes by on this site that you don't rail other builders and light people up who own different boats, while patting yourself on the back. How many times have you pimped your stuff promising that you will make it right by sponsoring the site, claiming the check is in the mail? Yet I never see you listed as a sponsor?

I think your first few posts were great and informative and then they've been going down hill ever since with back stabbing and shameless attempts at free advertising.



tonyhomer said:


> To everyone else let me Appologise for the turn this thread has taken. *Once our sponsorship is active(already signed up and paid) *we will then remove this thread and we will start a fresh one with...


So are you a sponsor? Nothing under Waterfowl works listed in the sponsor thread.

I've also read the PM's you have made to people threatening them because you "are a sponsor".


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

tonyhomer said:


> No one was talking to you and speaking of the D-Bag switch? practice what you preach.
> 
> Here is the problem ever since I made a mistake years ago on the refuge and said some things I shouldn't have. Admittedly so. Everyone tends to jump all over me immediately without reading through what they are reading and considering it may not mean it exactly how your reading it. As I stated before the LOL usually means its sarcastic and or meant to be funny.
> 
> ...


Sorry, don't mean to hijack an already hijacked thread, but there are products out there now that can seriously compete with Divinicell in both weight and strength. The last time I bought some for building it was cheaper than the divinicell. If you are interested, send me a PM. I don't plan to comment on a forum on this product on this thread.


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## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

TSS Caddis said:


> So your the victim now :lol:
> 
> Not a layout post goes by on this site that you don't rail other builders and light people up who own different boats, while patting yourself on the back. How many times have you pimped your stuff promising that you will make it right by sponsoring the site, claiming the check is in the mail? Yet I never see you listed as a sponsor?
> 
> ...


 i indeed was and may still be a sponsor. But i wont be renewing. Dont believe me ask the man in charge. I believe i ended up sponsoring the ohio part of the site though ao that may be why you didnt see me listed on this particular forum.


You got anything else to say about me or my business you know where to find me in a couple weeks. If not then unless spoken to or about keep yourattacks to yourself.


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## T.J. (Mar 1, 2009)

rosimike said:


> Like I always say.You need to sit in them all.Than buy the one that will work for your boat and the crew you hunt with.
> 
> 
> I wish at Point Mouille that we could have layout boats on display.From
> ...


 prolly could we got everyone of them boats in our little click but im weeding out the ufos. not just because homers a d-bag but airboat joe actually flipped his on its side last fall and lost a shot gun.


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## lastflighttaxidermy (Jul 12, 2010)

Ok, ill bite on this. I'm a small business owner. Cost, profit margin, materials and so on all important. 

So a new product comes about to offer my customers. Its cost me 50 bucks to buy and so on. But I can only sell it for 60 for people to use it. I'm still going to cause its an extra 10 bucks in my pocket for that mount. 

Nothing wrong with them adding another product to there buisness so they can make a few more $.

Idk. My opinion anyway. This bickering struck a cord I guess. Carry on

Sent from my DROID4 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Timber (Jan 1, 2009)

I guess I really don't see where Tony is bashing people or other boat. But I could be missing something also. It seems to me he present knowledgeable facts and some don't like it. All I know, Tony is will your boats take seas like a MLB Supermag, or the LB Big Brother, I know for a fact the big brother is a more solid boat than the Supermag, it is built more solid, but i must admit my Supermag has been flawless in the last 4 year I have owned it,and it has seen more time on the water, and big seas than most with any sense would care to admit most would call dumb whatever, you get the point, to each there own. I need to ride in one of your boat then I'll know for myself and if it meets my standards,and I hope it does I'll be calling you.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

T.J. said:


> airboat joe actually flipped his on its side last fall and lost a shot gun.


Why wasn't I notified of such an event? If I ever flipped a boat using it the way it was intended to be used the first call would be the manufacturer. Not a heresay friend posting it up on a web forum.

Oh wait, we have to consider the source of information.


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## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

Timber said:


> I guess I really don't see where Tony is bashing people or other boat. But I could be missing something also. It seems to me he present knowledgeable facts and some don't like it. All I know, Tony is will your boats take seas like a MLB Supermag, or the LB Big Brother, I know for a fact the big brother is a more solid boat than the Supermag, it is built more solid, but i must admit my Supermag has been flawless in the last 4 year I have owned it,and it has seen more time on the water, and big seas than most with any sense would care to admit most would call dumb whatever, you get the point, to each there own. I need to ride in one of your boat then I'll know for myself and if it meets my standards,and I hope it does I'll be calling you.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Timber give me a call I will gladly answer your questions over the phone. I would answer them here but someone will have something to say about what ever I say. 937-418-7207

Tony


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## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

TSS Caddis said:


> So your the victim now :lol:
> 
> Not a layout post goes by on this site that you don't rail other builders and light people up who own different boats, while patting yourself on the back. How many times have you pimped your stuff promising that you will make it right by sponsoring the site, claiming the check is in the mail? Yet I never see you listed as a sponsor?
> 
> ...


Here ya go just for you so you will shut up and quit whining and worrying about my sponsorship details. Last I checked you didn't own these sites and quite frankly its NONE of your business but just to prove to everyone I am a sponsor and paid for a year until September 7th of 2014. So next time I start a thread maybe someone wont delete it until after the 7th when my sponsorship ends.

Some of you kids around here sure know how to treat paying sponsors and if you keep it up you wont have any left.
Just for your INFO STEVE owns these sites.

Hope that satisfy's you and all your koolaid drinking friends TSS CADDISS,, Maybe if Steve would shut you guys up and stop letting you run all the sponsors off there might be some around here. Doesn't appear to be any new sponsors in the past year. Wonder why?

Quote;

Originally Posted by *Steve* 
_I got your order and just pushed it through.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *tonyhomer* 
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Steve* 
There was a bug in the system. It should work now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *tonyhomer* 
This one straight off the front of the advertising page.

We have a promo code running this fall offering you the first $150 of advertising for free. The code is "*FALL12*". Enter this code during the payment for your ad. If you don't have a 468x60 pixel sized banner, no problem. The system will help you create one.



excellent I'll go take care of it now. I have in the past tried to contact someone here about sponsoring way back when the site was fairly new. May have even talked in person with you then about sponsoring etc etc. But never heard back. thanks Steve. we will get it covered.

_


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## Adam Peterson (Mar 20, 2006)

I have hunted out of a LB, MLB, and own a UFO. I would rank them in this order. LBLB, UFO, supermag. Like I said I own a UFO and my buddy owns a LB. I have hunted in some nasty stuff in the LB and never once felt unsafe even in 4-5' waves. The LB is much more solid. The only problem I had with UFO is sometimes the nose of the boat seems to stick up which was fixed with putting a sand bag in the front of the boat to keep the nose down. This is only on the calmer days though. And the glass seems to chip easier than the LB. I haven't had a chance to test the UFO out in anything 3'+ but it handled 2-3's just fine. If I were in the market again to buy a new layout I would prolly pay the extra and get the LB but don't necessarily regret buying the UFO either. I also like the spay curtain design on the LB better. It's sometimes a pain in the ass to take the little screw out of the UFO so I can put it up. 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

Adam Peterson said:


> I have hunted out of a LB, MLB, and own a UFO. I would rank them in this order. LBLB, UFO, supermag. Like I said I own a UFO and my buddy owns a LB. I have hunted in some nasty stuff in the LB and never once felt unsafe even in 4-5' waves. The LB is much more solid. The only problem I had with UFO is sometimes the nose of the boat seems to stick up which was fixed with putting a sand bag in the front of the boat to keep the nose down. This is only on the calmer days though. And the glass seems to chip easier than the LB. I haven't had a chance to test the UFO out in anything 3'+ but it handled 2-3's just fine. If I were in the market again to buy a new layout I would prolly pay the extra and get the LB but don't necessarily regret buying the UFO either. I also like the spay curtain design on the LB better. It's sometimes a pain in the ass to take the little screw out of the UFO so I can put it up.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Adam, We don't use the screws to hold the prop rods on the UFO spray shields. The rods will actually rest right in that little groove against the screws. Leave the screws in and raise the spray shield and it will stand up on its own.

Adam, also something everyone needs to keep in mind is for layout hunting the first thing everyone ask for is lightweight.

In order to achieve light weight you have to use less resin and glass. Which means a less stiff boat. It doesn't mean its not Strong because as many may not know flex in fiberglass is NOT a bad thing at all. Fiberglass that does NOT flex is worse and prone to breaks and cracks.

Now with that said Our UFO weight is around 115-120lbs and that's actual weight Not a made up number. We weigh them every so often to insure our weight is accurate as we claim. If you want a layout stonger we can do that and make it as strong as you want but it will gain weight. I don't know what other boats weigh have never put one on a scale but I can assure you that the ones I have lifted are way more than the advertised weights and that may be why they seem so strong because they are built heavier which will create that in the boat. 

If I were to add 2oz of glass to the UFO which would make it weigh aprox 150lbs I guarantee you It would have no flex and be as strong as any boat out there. But your giving up weight and flexibility of the boat. Both things layout hunters want in there boats.

Everything about the different layouts are Not because someone builds a better boat yada yada yada. Because its all about comparing apples to apples to make those decisions. Take some time and weigh the LBLB and let me know the exact weight of it and compare to the weight of the UFO. My best guess is the LBLB will be several lbs heavier which makes it seem like a stronger and better built boat when all in all its only built heavier. And we can do the same thing if you would prefer a heavier boat.


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## Adam Peterson (Mar 20, 2006)

Tony,
I understand the concept of your spay shield and that design is fine when there is small waves but when they get bigger I have had the rod come dislodged and the spay shield fall down which isn't fun or safe in rough water. I didn't attack or criticize your design or boats and even said I don't regret buying one from you. So don't think it was a personal attack on you or your boats.
I will also agree with you that your boat is lighter than the LB. You make a quality boat but there are some things I like about the LB more simple as that. I'm just giving my honest opinion. There are some features I like that your boat has that the LB doesn't like being lighter, more foot room and storage room along the sides. I did get a tear in my new waders from the screw holding the front cleat down which I wasn't to happy about.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

Adam Peterson said:


> Tony,
> I understand the concept of your spay shield and that design is fine when there is small waves but when they get bigger I have had the rod come dislodged and the spay shield fall down which isn't fun or safe in rough water. I didn't attack or criticize your design or boats and even said I don't regret buying one from you. So don't think it was a personal attack on you or your boats.
> I will also agree with you that your boat is lighter than the LB. You make a quality boat but there are some things I like about the LB more simple as that. I'm just giving my honest opinion. There are some features I like that your boat has that the LB doesn't like being lighter, more foot room and storage room along the sides. I did get a tear in my new waders from the screw holding the front cleat down which I wasn't to happy about.
> 
> ...


No problem at all Adam and not considering your comments a bad thing at all. 

All boats will be different no doubt. The issue I have when someone states how much better built one is than the other. That's a trick question and answer and observation. Because I you want a light(thinner) boat its going to be weaker than a heavier(thicker) boat. Simple as that a layer or 2 of glass can make a huge difference as well. So Maybe we should start asking if the consumer wants a light boat or a Stiffer heavier boat. 

In the end there wont be any difference over the life of the boat either way.

As for the spray shield system I agree in rough water, They make thumb screws or even snap pins that would resolve your problem as well and make it quick and simple to raise and lower them.

Thanks for the comments there always welcome good or bad from a customer. ITs comments from the KOOLAID GANGS who are just trying to cause problems that bother me. LOL


----------



## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

tonyhomer said:


> Thanks for the comments there always welcome good or bad from a customer. ITs comments from the KOOLAID GANGS who are just trying to cause problems that bother me. LOL


Always the victim. You can't handle that there are people that prefer boats other than yours. That's why you were throwing fits and PMing TJ after you bought the TDB molds bitching TJ out for having a Duck Water and posting about it. That's why you went on and on before slamming Tony Smith, that's why your questioning Duck Water building boats. In 100 years I don't think you would ever have anything positive to say about something you are not involved with.


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## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

TSS Caddis said:


> Always the victim. You can't handle that there are people that prefer boats other than yours. That's why you were throwing fits and PMing TJ after you bought the TDB molds bitching TJ out for having a Duck Water and posting about it. That's why you went on and on before slamming Tony Smith, that's why your questioning Duck Water building boats. In 100 years I don't think you would ever have anything positive to say about something you are not involved with.


You again?

First off how would you know anything about the PM's I sent to TJ and PM's are just that. private messages. Don't answer we all know how you know about them. 

Anyway since your going to go there. Go back to the thread and you will see your buddy TJ started Knocking the TDB immediately and telling everyone how wet they were that duckwater and bankes were better. Funny isn't it? Your buddy starting crap on one of my threads. 

Fact is I sent him a pm but only because I am a sponsor and once again he was pimping other boats in my threads and knocking our products at the same time. 

Isn't that interesting? Sounds just like you and what your saying I tend to be doing all the time.

Dude you guys need to grow up and just stay away from me before you get yourself in trouble with your fingers and keyboard.

Now go away. Like I said wanna talk to me or about me and my products do at the show in a couple weeks man to man.


----------



## Timber (Jan 1, 2009)

Man I'm really trying to be good and keep my nose out of this. Anybody been by Lake Santiago lately?


----------



## T.J. (Mar 1, 2009)

never said it in a negative way. I said the tdb I was in was a wet ride. it just was...........im sure as became more persistent in my argument after your reply's. I don't remember.:lol:
as for joe not calling u that's just not joe. he bought it second hand he will likely sell it and get another. and if I was trying to bash you I could have brought it up earlier it happened in November. truth be told he got up on his knees to shoot a cripple. something we do all the time in other boats...take it for what its worth. that's just what happened.


----------



## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

You seem to forget history. 

TJ has never pimped Duck Water IMO. So you pm'ing him demanding he stops posting is absurd. I've rode in TDB's, they are rough riding and wet SOB's period! I doubt anyone would argue that but you because you now own the molds. Once anchored, very comfortable, just don't plan on going far in any kind of wave and expect to have all your teeth at the end. Now go ahead and rant like a child because you can't handle the facts.

If you recall the history you got on here railing on TJ and I for recommending LBLB when people ask. No one ever pimped the LBLB, you just never could handle someone saying something positive about a competitor, you just don't have it in your character to do so. Up until then TJ was honest when he said we considered buying a UFO but your behavior put an end to that. I know nothing of the quality of your boat but your personality and how you handle yourself here is what drives people away, not anything I have to say. I used to think you were purposefully being clever with your passive aggressive comments about competitors, but I really just think you may have no idea your doing it.

In this Duck Water thread you could have just wished them luck, but you have to use your same passive aggressive nonsense to knock the boat and knock Duck Water for deciding to make them. But then you don't have it in your character to take the high road. This thread is the first I've heard of DW making a layout, I know nothing about it but the more options available the better IMO.


----------



## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

tonyhomer said:


> Fact is I sent him a pm but only because I am a sponsor and once again he was *pimping other boats in my thread**s* and knocking our products at the same time.


Ironic, considering the title of this thread.



And yes, we all realize that Steve is a good capitalist and is all about the almighty dollar. 

But I'm sure he realizes that all the sponsor money goes away if there is no membership.


If you are interested, I will sell you a customized marketing plan that I will personally guarantee to be 250% more effective than a forum sponsorship. And it costs less than half of what a sponsorship does. Let me know.


----------



## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

TSS Caddis said:


> You seem to forget history.
> 
> TJ has never pimped Duck Water IMO. So you pm'ing him demanding he stops posting is absurd. I've rode in TDB's, they are rough riding and wet SOB's period! I doubt anyone would argue that but you because you now own the molds. Once anchored, very comfortable, just don't plan on going far in any kind of wave and expect to have all your teeth at the end. Now go ahead and rant like a child because you can't handle the facts.
> 
> ...


No pimping DW on my threads by TJ you say? Just shows how much you obviously pay attention or read,



T.J. said:


> Sea class 21. Definitely better then classic but compared to duck water and I would guess banks as well. Its a weter ride.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


 
So once again your wrong. 

You ready to go away yet? so far you seem to be wrong about what you claim in every someone did or didn't do. Specifically you or your pal TJ.

ITs simple stay out of my business and my posts.


----------



## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

TSS Caddis said:


> You seem to forget history.
> 
> TJ has never pimped Duck Water IMO. So you pm'ing him demanding he stops posting is absurd. I've rode in TDB's, they are rough riding and wet SOB's period! I doubt anyone would argue that but you because you now own the molds. Once anchored, very comfortable, just don't plan on going far in any kind of wave and expect to have all your teeth at the end. Now go ahead and rant like a child because you can't handle the facts.
> 
> ...


----------



## airboatjoe (Oct 20, 2009)

tj is correct that i flipped my ufo and my SBE went to the bottom. was up shooting a crip on my left and wave hit me from the right. it stood up on its side and i came out and scrambled to grab and pull my self back in and in the process gun went in


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

...


----------



## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

T.J. said:


> never said it in a negative way. I said the tdb I was in was a wet ride. it just was...........im sure as became more persistent in my argument after your reply's. I don't remember.:lol:
> as for joe not calling u that's just not joe. he bought it second hand he will likely sell it and get another. and if I was trying to bash you I could have brought it up earlier it happened in November. truth be told he got up on his knees to shoot a cripple. something we do all the time in other boats...take it for what its worth. that's just what happened.


TJ, while you got my attention with what appears to be a BS post to drive people away I am concerned. 



I can tell you this when we tested the UFO with the USCG we done as many tests as we could to try and tip the boat including having a 350lb person on there knees leaning over the side trying to roll it, standing and leaning trying to roll it and it would not flip. There is no way for me to test it in hunting conditions so that is up to the user to use common sense.

While being on your knees shooting a gun is not the smartest thing to do and I don't care if you do it in all your boats that's asking for trouble. All it would take was to discharge the gun at the same time as taking a wave to help throw the boat over. Pretty stupid thing to do. 

Yet you come on this thread once again and try to degrade my boats like its the boats fault someone's doing something they shouldn't be in them, and shooting from any position other than on there butt.

You aware of how close that post is to slander or Libel? Especially after admitting the guy was doing something that isn't how the boats to be used.

Now just stop. For the last and final time stop This is over.

I sure hope your not teaching guys to do things like this on a regular basis because someone's going to get killed in your little click.


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## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

airboatjoe said:


> tj is correct that i flipped my ufo and my SBE went to the bottom. was up shooting a crip on my left and wave hit me from the right. it stood up on its side and i came out and scrambled to grab and pull my self back in and in the process gun went in


So did you flip the boat or did a large wave and the shock of you shooting your gun at the same time simply roll the boat up on its side in the wave? DID the boat roll upside down or NOT? 

And how did your boat end up sideways to take a wave? Waves are to come up the back of the boat not the side? Let me take a guess a giant wave from TJ running the tender as he blows by u to get the cripples.

At this point now I need the full details and true facts. I am not going to take TJ's post about our boat flipping lightly. Joe if you would prefer to call me that would be wonderful. 937-418-7207

Tony

This is exactly why people should mind there own business and not start crap and say things on the internet. This will not be taken lightly. TJ's post has slandered and defamed my product with his nonsense posts and now I want answers and facts and it cleared up on this thread appropriately.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

tonyhomer said:


> You aware of how close that post is to slander or Libel?


Not as close as you were to having someone die hunting in one of your boats.





tonyhomer said:


> Now just stop. For the last and final time stop This is over.


Some sound advice. Maybe you should heed it.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

tonyhomer said:


> Let me take a guess a giant wave from TJ running the tender as he blows by u to get the cripples.


Speaking of slander....


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## Timber (Jan 1, 2009)

airboatjoe said:


> tj is correct that i flipped my ufo and my SBE went to the bottom. was up shooting a crip on my left and wave hit me from the right. it stood up on its side and i came out and scrambled to grab and pull my self back in and in the process gun went in


By the sounds of it you got bucked off, that does not count imo as flipping the boat.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

Timber said:


> By the sounds of it you got bucked off, that does not count imo as flipping the boat.


And speculation from another guy who wasn't there.



Eyewitnesses:2

Speculators: 0


----------



## Timber (Jan 1, 2009)

Biased crew that's for sure, credible crew not so sure, I have one question who where's the pants in your crew Caddis or KLR?


----------



## younggun7 (Nov 25, 2005)

If anyone is interested in the duckwater layout pm me. I talked to Steve last night and got the low down. 

Wait my popcorn is done.
Continue....


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

Timber said:


> Biased crew that's for sure, *credible* crew not so sure, I have one question who where's the pants in your crew Caddis or KLR?



^This from a guy with a Golden in his avatar???


----------



## Timber (Jan 1, 2009)

KLR said:


> ^This from a guy with a Golden in his avatar???


To me if a boat flips im not crawling back in. Not a wave knocking me off balance and throwing me over board. did the boat flip completely over if so it does not say this in his post? My goldens have been great companion and love being in the field most of the time bring me waterfowl, but im always open to new breeds if you have one you would like to prove to me it has what it takes I would love to see it.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

Timber said:


> To me if a boat flips im not crawling back in. Not a wave knocking me off balance and throwing me over board. did the boat flip completely over if so it does not say this in his post?


Don't know. But your arguing semantics, either way. 

Spent a fair amount of time in layouts doing all manner of stupid things, in rough water - and I've never gone in. But I've never hunted in a UFO either.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

finally...internet fight that i'm not in. this is good stuff.


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## Timber (Jan 1, 2009)

younggun7 said:


> If anyone is interested in the duckwater layout pm me. I talked to Steve last night and got the low down.
> 
> Wait my popcorn is done.
> Continue....


This tread need a different direction please elaborate, What's the scoop?


----------



## Waz_51 (Jan 10, 2010)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> finally...internet fight that i'm not in. this is good stuff.


Lmao and I thought the deer debate forum was good...


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## T.J. (Mar 1, 2009)

tonyhomer said:


> TJ, while you got my attention with what appears to be a BS post to drive people away I am concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I was just telling it how it happened dangerous or not never came close to a problem in any other boat. the day joe did that I was off shore in 5 footers and he stayed closer to shore hunting with another guy in a smaller tender where waves couldn't have exceeded 2-3 ft. I don't know what to say other then it happened. iv definitely done some stupid things not denying that. im known to stand up to kill cripples. but I never had a problem.


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## Waz_51 (Jan 10, 2010)

ghhunter said:


> I forgot you need to have a certain number of posts to post on an open thread, my bad, what sticky was that under again? Not trying to be rude of course. Oh, and if your into comparing posts counts better check yours against Wazzy's.


Chad is a good friend of mine


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## Waz_51 (Jan 10, 2010)

Timber said:


> Don't worry about this one, it goes deeper than you will ever know you do not know all the logistic, your not headed in the right direction with this one with only 71 post not trying to be a jerk to you either, same for you Wazzy.


I assure you that my comments were not made through the influence of a group of posters but rather through the way that Homer handled himself in adversity...good public relations is key to a successful business!


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## Timber (Jan 1, 2009)

ghhunter said:


> I forgot you need to have a certain number of posts to post on an open thread, my bad, what sticky was that under again? Not trying to be rude of course. Oh, and if your into comparing posts counts better check yours against Wazzy's.


I'm sorry, your are right I assumed and was wrong.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

:lol: Funny shizzle right here on the old interweb! 




:coco:

I would just blame it on Alcohol consumption or Bipolar disorder..................

Without pictures this thread is worthless! 

To quote "just some of that he said she said bullsh1$" 

I'm really surprised this thread hasn't been locked down like a maximum security prison by now?  

*PS: Hey i'm putting Gator glide on my mud boat hull, if anyone is interested! *

Smoke


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## Timber (Jan 1, 2009)

Gator glide I'm interested

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

Gator glide, slick bottom? Drop the coin and go 1/2 poly!


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## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

Waz_51 said:


> I assure you that my comments were not made through the influence of a group of posters but rather through the way that Homer handled himself in adversity...good public relations is key to a successful business!


You know what? I hear that all the time when I am dealing with guys(kids) who like to talk crap and degrade people and there business for fun.

But the fact is this. I am still in business after 9 years and will be here another 9 years and will continue to stand up for myself and my product when someone tries to degrade it or me just because they feel like it or want to.

Its been done before and again and again I have heard this yet were still here and others manufacturers wont answer there phone. So obviously your very incorrect in your assumptions.

I WILL NOT tolerate people who want to make things up or post hearsay about me or my company on an internet forum when it makes me or my company look bad or like our product is dangerous.

Especially when its from the same ones who do it over and over like its a damn game or something.

Carry on fella's. I got plenty of more important things to do. 

Airboat Joe, Mr. TJ Wilson. I will be awaiting the exact details to be posted of this so called flipped UFO incident.


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## casscityalum (Aug 27, 2007)

All I have to say is the number one thing weve learned and are taught to do is not bash or start knocking another company while talking up your own. As someone in sales it seems desprite and will turn off more customers than you know. Simple fact, you have to be able to stand other peoples products with out bashing or tearing down their company. If you are a customer go for it and can do all the bashing you want. But as an owner or employee in sales, you better not. I more often than not compliment the compition and then from there work into the customers dislikes rather than just saying "ya there ok, but heres why mines better" They obviously buy that for a reason and to slam their choice is an insult to the consumer.


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## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

casscityalum said:


> All I have to say is the number one thing weve learned and are taught to do is not bash or start knocking another company while talking up your own. As someone in sales it seems desprite and will turn off more customers than you know. Simple fact, you have to be able to stand other peoples products with out bashing or tearing down their company. If you are a customer go for it and can do all the bashing you want. But as an owner or employee in sales, you better not. I more often than not compliment the compition and then from there work into the customers dislikes rather than just saying "ya there ok, but heres why mines better" They obviously buy that for a reason and to slam their choice is an insult to the consumer.


That is just simply not true, business comparing products and such happen every single day. Turn on your TV or Radio or open a magazine my friend. Its business. The problem isn't the business's its all the little koolaid gangs who thing they gotta be hero's and but into other peoples business. Most of these clowns aren't even old enough to know half of whats happening or going on behind the scenes etc etc. But they still press forward running ther mouths until someone screws up and makes a very very big mistake such as been done in this thread. Its real simple. Don't like what someone posts move on and ignore it. Its a free world and Anyone can post what ever they want however that does not give anyone the right to make slanderous libel comments such as the one TJ Wilson made. That is out of line and will be dealt with and not on an internet forum. You can bet on it.

That remark could(will) potentially cost my company thousands of dollars in sales.


People need to MIND THERE OWN BUSINESS. if they don't like what I post don't read it or if someone doesn't want a answer from me don't post a question on an open internet forum. The funny thing is its never the guy posting the questions that end of being the problems as we all know.

Its really that simple. 

Good By 

TJ Wilson we will be in touch.


----------



## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

sswhitelightning said:


> Gator glide, slick bottom? Drop the coin and go 1/2 poly!



Air boat dudes! :16suspect LOL 

Ya know I actually saw a boat at our poker run in July that had some blue material on the bottom of his 15' excel. He said it was the same material that went into the bed of a dump truck and air boat guys use the same stuff. I was all geeked up about it until I saw how many friggin holes he had to drill into his hull! Obviously I didn't get under the boat and count them but there were 100's. Is this the same stuff you are using on your air boat hull? It is damn slippery I checked it out pretty close since he blew out his magnetic clutch plate Saturday and loaded it up on the trailer. I looked at it after I cooked breakfast for everyone still there. It looks like it's very tough material. Don't recall what he said it was.


----------



## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

tonyhomer said:


> That is just simply not true, business comparing products and such happen every single day. Turn on your TV or Radio or open a magazine my friend. Its business. The problem isn't the business's its all the little koolaid gangs who thing they gotta be hero's and but into other peoples business. Most of these clowns aren't even old enough to know half of whats happening or going on behind the scenes etc etc. But they still press forward running ther mouths until someone screws up and makes a very very big mistake such as been done in this thread. Its real simple. Don't like what someone posts move on and ignore it. Its a free world and Anyone can post what ever they want however that does not give anyone the right to make slanderous libel comments such as the one TJ Wilson made. That is out of line and will be dealt with and not on an internet forum. You can bet on it.
> 
> That remark could(will) potentially cost my company thousands of dollars in sales.
> 
> ...


 
:lol:


----------



## Waz_51 (Jan 10, 2010)

tonyhomer said:


> That is just simply not true, business comparing products and such happen every single day. Turn on your TV or Radio or open a magazine my friend. Its business. The problem isn't the business's its all the little koolaid gangs who thing they gotta be hero's and but into other peoples business. Most of these clowns aren't even old enough to know half of whats happening or going on behind the scenes etc etc. But they still press forward running ther mouths until someone screws up and makes a very very big mistake such as been done in this thread. Its real simple. Don't like what someone posts move on and ignore it. Its a free world and Anyone can post what ever they want however that does not give anyone the right to make slanderous libel comments such as the one TJ Wilson made. That is out of line and will be dealt with and not on an internet forum. You can bet on it.
> 
> That remark could(will) potentially cost my company thousands of dollars in sales.
> 
> ...


Smdh...

If you're doing so well selling these boats, why are you on an internet forum whining like a 5 year old, threatening people? If it's not possible to flip your boat, why are you even worried about what's on an internet chat room? You're starting to act like a bully and trust me, nobody likes bullies!


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

Waz_51 said:


> Smdh...
> 
> If you're doing so well selling these boats, why are you on an internet forum whining like a 5 year old, threatening people? If it's not possible to flip your boat, why are you even worried about what's on an internet chat room? You're starting to act like a bully and trust me, nobody likes bullies!


This is not a slam on you, don't take it personally. I am not taking sides here, there is no reason to take sides. You have the Posse (they know who they are) who constantly poke and keep poking for their own entertainment. Then you have the people that really don't know how to handle the poking, and they react. If you are seriously letting anything you read on this forum influence your purchasing, you might want to consider some more reliable methods. Once you are on this board for a while you will see the pattern, trust me. Just remember, there are only opinions and paid advertisments on this forum.... facts are best experienced first hand.


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## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

Waz_51 said:


> Smdh...
> 
> If you're doing so well selling these boats, why are you on an internet forum whining like a 5 year old, threatening people? If it's not possible to flip your boat, why are you even worried about what's on an internet chat room? You're starting to act like a bully and trust me, nobody likes bullies!


Its not a threat. 

Doesn't matter how well or not so well we are doing. Such accusations won't be tolerated. Simple as that. I have tolerated enough of TSS and TJ Wilsons crap over the past couple years and its now time to put an end to it. 

I have asked them both kindly many times to mind there own business and they choose not to.

Good Day.


----------



## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

smoke said:


> Air boat dudes! :16suspect LOL
> 
> Ya know I actually saw a boat at our poker run in July that had some blue material on the bottom of his 15' excel. He said it was the same material that went into the bed of a dump truck and air boat guys use the same stuff. I was all geeked up about it until I saw how many friggin holes he had to drill into his hull! Obviously I didn't get under the boat and count them but there were 100's. Is this the same stuff you are using on your air boat hull? It is damn slippery I checked it out pretty close since he blew out his magnetic clutch plate Saturday and loaded it up on the trailer. I looked at it after I cooked breakfast for everyone still there. It looks like it's very tough material. Don't recall what he said it was.


I have actual poly designed for airboats. I dont know much about blue stuff. i know tj's friend Zach has the blue stuff on his boat. Some guys even have white. Some guys screw them on, which I'm not a fan because they come out. My boat has around 180 stainless bolts nuts and washers. All counter sunk. No leaks but its a weird feeling drilling that many holes in your boat. I don't have any left, but we used it on ice shanty bottoms for ice protection, trailor floor cover, boat bunk sides. It's tuff stuff. My dad found all kinds of uses for our extra. Even slicked up a tobogga. I wouldn't do the thick stuff on mud boat, but maybe some 1/8 inch. pry work well on river boat for protection also. Saw some flats boats use it as strips on runners like shi kid has.

My first airboat had slick bottom and I've saw gator glide. It's slippery, but not much on protection. Downside with poly is its heavy.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

sswhitelightning said:


> My boat has around 180 stainless bolts nuts and washers. All counter sunk. No leaks but its a weird feeling drilling that many holes in your boat.


does it look like this?


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## BFG (Mar 4, 2005)

> *PS: Hey i'm putting Gator glide on my mud boat hull, if anyone is interested! *


Is that the Cajun version of Astro-Glide?


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## wavie (Feb 2, 2004)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> does it look like this?



Is that a pirouge on steroids.


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## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

I really hate to high jack a thread but this bee otch was jacked up pages ago. To bad too because it would be nice to get some unbiased opinions on the different layout boats. So I'm gonna jack the piss out of this thread since they already have. Homer I can't believe you didn't take this to pm's it would have saved your bacon but I know your a tough guy and you can handle these children. Honestly it's not that hard to find out who someone is on a public forum. You'd be surprised how quick you can find out who someone behind the handle is. Try it sometime! Lol


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## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

BFG said:


> Is that the Cajun version of Astro-Glide?


Dang it busted! Lol yea that thar is some sho nuf slippery stuff. Because sometimes ky just won't do Clark!


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## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

wavie said:


> Is that a pirouge on steroids.


Very similar just blue instead of black. What material is it? Uhmw delrin or what??


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> does it look like this?


Yup just a little less though. I don't have the pics of my dad with his blow torch warming the poly up trying to form it to the boat. Not a fun job.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

smoke said:


> I really hate to high jack a thread but this bee otch was jacked up pages ago. To bad too because it would be nice to get some unbiased opinions on the different layout boats. So I'm gonna jack the piss out of this thread since they already have. Homer I can't believe you didn't take this to pm's it would have saved your bacon but I know your a tough guy and you can handle these children. Honestly it's not that hard to find out who someone is on a public forum. You'd be surprised how quick you can find out who someone behind the handle is. Try it sometime! Lol


Sure, but its easier to make idle threats. 

And keep in mind - he's the one that waded into a thread talking crap and is now whining about it. Maybe you can help him find a butthurt report and file it with the proper internet hurt feeling authorities.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

smoke said:


> Very similar just blue instead of black. What material is it? Uhmw delrin or what??


yeah just a uhmw. very common on the airboats iv'e seen as well. I also have a couple buddies that build amazing airboats...work of arts really. They used a spray on material for years that is slick...and it was big money but i can't tell you what it was called. 1 of those guys moved to florida and builds airboats down there now full time.


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## younggun7 (Nov 25, 2005)

smoke said:


> So I'm gonna jack the piss out of this










smoke said:


> Dang it busted! Lol yea that thar is some sho nuf slippery stuff. Because sometimes ky just won't do Clark!


What has this thread turned into?!? Lmao your a sick sick man!


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

smoke said:


> Because sometimes ky just won't do Clark!


Is it that new fangdangled scented stuff :evil:


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## Timber (Jan 1, 2009)

Bellyup said:


> This is not a slam on you, don't take it personally. I am not taking sides here, there is no reason to take sides. You have the Posse (they know who they are) who constantly poke and keep poking for their own entertainment. Then you have the people that really don't know how to handle the poking, and they react. If you are seriously letting anything you read on this forum influence your purchasing, you might want to consider some more reliable methods. Once you are on this board for a while you will see the pattern, trust me. Just remember, there are only opinions and paid advertisments on this forum.... facts are best experienced first hand.


Well put, and right on!!


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## jehler (Jul 18, 2011)

Umm, Mr. Homer...


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## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

KLR said:


> Sure, but its easier to make idle threats.
> 
> And keep in mind - he's the one that waded into a thread talking crap and is now whining about it. Maybe you can help him find a butthurt report and file it with the proper internet hurt feeling authorities.


Wouldn't know where to find a butt hurt report k. Ive never had to file one tbh. I can read and comprehend fairly well. College will do that for you who should know that. Do I agree with how he handles himself? Ahhh no I don't but it was the group thug mentality I've seen before from you three. He was def. out numbered and should have just closed his suck hole or taken it to pm's. that's all I'm going to say about it. Back to the slippery bottom boat discussion.


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## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

younggun7 said:


> What has this thread turned into?!? Lmao your a sick sick man!


Lol all in fun buddy.


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## younggun7 (Nov 25, 2005)

smoke said:


> Lol all in fun buddy.


I got ya man. Me too.


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

jehler said:


> Umm, Mr. Homer...


I might just save this one for a rainy day. Heck maybe a few hard copies to give my friends when excuses come my way.


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## airboatjoe (Oct 20, 2009)

sswhitelightning said:


> I might just save this one for a rainy day. Heck maybe a few hard copies to give my friends when excuses come my way.


Lol

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Nuff Daddy (Dec 5, 2012)

jehler said:


> Umm, Mr. Homer...


Leave it to jehler. :lol:


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## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

Hey TJ and Gang,

Thought you all might like to tell everyone else who has been following this thread what a Liar TJ Wilson is and how his post about a UFO flipping was a lie. 

Here is some pretty good info I found searching around on the internet.

T.j. Wilson I thought about posting that on michigan sportsmen and telling the story behind it. It would tick Tony homer off pretty bad because a buddy of mine lost it when his UFO just about flipped right over.



https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000724750745

https://fbexternal-a.akamaihd.net/s...769272_565981776769309_41621_906_b.jpg&jq=100

go to april 7th post


If TJ makes his profile private just let me know and I'll post up the screen shots for all to read if needed. Had to save them just in case.

Gene and Dan, you guys might want to watch who your sticking up for and what your saying on the internet. 
People are watching.


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## Nuff Daddy (Dec 5, 2012)

And Homer....I'm not a layout hunter, but I wouldn't ever buy a boat from you if I ever took it up. It's not because TJ may or may not have watched his friend Joe fall out of or flip one of your boats. It's not because you may or may not be a sponsor. And it's not because someone may or may not be bad mouthing you in "your" threads.
But its because your being a "d-bag" (your words, not mine)


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

wavie said:


> Is that a pirouge on steroids.


well it was this

















and became this.

















doin my best to steer this thread into something good. :lol:


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## Nuff Daddy (Dec 5, 2012)

tonyhomer said:


> People are watching.


Uh oh. Your all in trouble now.


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## Nuff Daddy (Dec 5, 2012)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> well it was this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is a sweet rig


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## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

Nuff Daddy said:


> And Homer....I'm not a layout hunter, but I wouldn't ever buy a boat from you if I ever took it up. It's not because TJ may or may not have watched his friend Joe fall out of or flip one of your boats. It's not because you may or may not be a sponsor. And it's not because someone may or may not be bad mouthing you in "your" threads.
> But its because your being a "d-bag" (your words, not mine)


LOL

May or may not have done those things. Facts my friend facts. And nothing but and TJ's facebook page alone will make things even easier now.

Nuff, were just getting warmed up. To bad its time to move forward with this one and let this go now. We have wasted enough time here.


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## Nuff Daddy (Dec 5, 2012)

tonyhomer said:


> Sir I did not start a fight. Am I not allowed to speak and post on this forum? Last I checked its a free country and I can post here just like you can. I have said or done nothing to start any fights with anyone.
> 
> I never attacked anyone on this thread or even on this website. And if I did please tell me where and which post in this 10 pages of nonsense it is.
> 
> What I know is its time for the 3 musketeers games to be over and I plan to put an end to them once and for all and TJ scape goat.


Ok...then you continued a fight. However you choose to look at it, all I'm saying is you caused 100X the damage that anything Tj said would have.


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

Look on the flip side, the posse is usually quick to point out that this forum represents a VERY small percentage of waterfowlers in this state. Something like less than 1% ? So who really gives a hoot what people from this site will buy a boat from Tony ? Why should he care ? He is not hurting his business if what the posse always harps on about when season dates are being gang banged. 

I think the line was crossed by all in this one. It went to personal attacks.


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

Meanwhile in Chicago sbe sits idle and let's the plot thicken


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

sswhitelightning said:


> Meanwhile in Chicago sbe sits idle and let's the plot thicken


You fishing to keep this thing going ? :evil:


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

Settle down this crap thread can go on long as it wants. It's way past useless. Besides Its a joke son. Sheesh!! I got no beef with sbe. I can ask about apr's


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## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

goosemanrdk said:


> Me Too!!!!
> 
> And I firmly believe, based on what has been presented, that the boat did NOT flip but rolled on it's side bucked the person out. I also believe that the boat might not have been being used in the appropriate maner in which it was intended for the given conditions on that day.
> I also am a realistic person and know that just about any product out there will have a person/persons that dislike it or have a problem with it. Heck I have plenty of things that I absolutely love, and others have said to my face that they absolutely despise them and have nothing but problems with them.
> ...


I have tried the PM method with these guys and they seem to think its more fun to post up about the pm's later in another thread. We will follow your advise and move forward.

If we lose a customer or 2 for standing up for our product and dealing with these 3 guys this way then so be it. But in the end I will always stand up for and behind my company and products. That's what business's do. Stop by Pointe Moullie and see how bad this thread effects our business. I assure you most of our business is not from this website or any internet forum for that matter. People in general really don't much care for these places anyway.

I am done with this thread as there is nothing left in it.


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

tonyhomer said:


> I have tried the PM method with these guys and they seem to think its more fun to post up about the pm's later in another thread. We will follow your advise and move forward.
> 
> If we lose a customer or 2 for standing up for our product and dealing with these 3 guys this way then so be it. But in the end I will always stand up for and behind my company and products. That's what business's do. Stop by Pointe Moullie and see how bad this thread effects our business. I assure you most of our business is not from this website or any internet forum for that matter. People in general really don't much care for these places anyway.
> 
> I am done with this thread as there is nothing left in it.


See, now that's the spirit and a much better attitude. Your response back to me could have gone in 1 of 2 directions. Now based on how you have handled some things in this thread I expected the other, which would have further reinforced my not wanting to ever deal with you. However, being realistic, I will be honest and say that despite all of this I would never have considered myself 100% out of ever potentially dealing with you for a boat. After this response, you have brought me a little bit back into potentially considering one of your boats. BRAVO!!!!! Time will tell if I make it all the way back.

Now, don't get me wrong, I was not in any way saying you shouldn't defend your product. Cause you should. It was the maner in which you were trying to defend your product. A simple open forum question asking about more details of the "flip" and see what response was given. Then a simple open forum response of this is the first time something like this has potentially happened and then follow my suggestion from the previous post further out on the defense of your product thru PM's and the courts if need be. Still defending, but minus the BS that turned numerous of us off to you.

I totally understand your point about the potential loss of only a several of us(think I have counted close to 5 in the thread) as a result of this thread. However, I would offer up 1 word of caution: While on the surface it may only be a loss of 3-5, what about the potential loss of each and every person that each of the 3-5 knows/interacts with. Word of mouth can be the biggest help or hinderence to future business.


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## BFG (Mar 4, 2005)

> Look on the flip side


I see what you did there....


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## carsonr2 (Jan 15, 2009)

Typical.

Season's almost here, and the forum is going to **** as usual. Figured this would have happened a few weeks back with the release of the season's dates, but to no avail.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

goosemanrdk said:


> See, now that's the spirit and a much better attitude. Your response back to me could have gone in 1 of 2 directions. Now based on how you have handled some things in this thread I expected the other, which would have further reinforced my not wanting to ever deal with you. However, being realistic, I will be honest and say that despite all of this I would never have considered myself 100% out of ever potentially dealing with you for a boat. After this response, you have brought me a little bit back into potentially considering one of your boats. BRAVO!!!!! Time will tell if I make it all the way back.
> 
> Now, don't get me wrong, I was not in any way saying you shouldn't defend your product. Cause you should. It was the maner in which you were trying to defend your product. A simple open forum question asking about more details of the "flip" and see what response was given. Then a simple open forum response of this is the first time something like this has potentially happened and then follow my suggestion from the previous post further out on the defense of your product thru PM's and the courts if need be. Still defending, but minus the BS that turned numerous of us off to you.
> 
> I totally understand your point about the potential loss of only a several of us(think I have counted close to 5 in the thread) as a result of this thread. However, I would offer up 1 word of caution: While on the surface it may only be a loss of 3-5, what about the potential loss of each and every person that each of the 3-5 knows/interacts with. Word of mouth can be the biggest help or hinderence to future business.


No dog in this fight but....I think someone discounting this site and any forums is very short sighted in todays economy....and to blow it off as "i wont miss those sales" is kinda retarded. Here is why.

not using a forum. people absolutely do google and use the internet to research their purchases. Check out this google I just did as an example. Pay attention to the second result. Right below the link google gives you a synopsis of what the link contains...about 5-10 words. Those are really important.

basis of my point is what goosemanrdk is touching on. open forum comments are out there forever for the google bots to pick up and use in their algorithms. Bad press in a forum can sink a reputation fast on the internet.

and now back to regular scheduled broadcasting, lol. carry on.


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## Shlwego (Sep 13, 2006)

I think the mods are on vacation.....:evilsmile But nonetheless, it's been entertaining. Thanks, fellas.


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## CougarHunter (Oct 2, 2008)

I can't believe this has gone on for so long...But to all you guys arguing....


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## Big Skip (Sep 1, 2010)

N.E. Outdoorsman said:


> Based upon the comments made by the boat manufacturer (not any nay sayers, or critics), I am skeptical of the after sale customer support, which is a high priority for me. Customer relations are key!
> 
> I will be looking elsewhere for a layout boat.


I am not part of the "three musketeers" but highly recommend lblb. Very stable Could be biased as i have never hunted out of anything else...but probably never will

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## T.J. (Mar 1, 2009)

tonyhomer said:


> On Page 4 TJ posted up about how someone flipped a UFO layout last year and lost a shotgun. After several pages and asking him and even the guy who claimed to have done it if they flipped the boat over or not they chose to ignore the question after TJ purposely made the original statement and insinuated that the UFO was unsafe because someone flipped one and his group was getting rid of all the UFO's because of it.
> 
> THen I find mention of this same thing on his facebook page where again he uses my name and degrades me and my company yet this time he stated someone almost flipped a UFO.
> 
> ...


the boat flipped up on its side almost 90 degrees joe made a decision to let lose of his gun in order to keep the boat from rolling over. had he not it would have rolled completely over he was real close to losing it. his shoulder on up to his chest was soaked . that video was hours later when we came back with scuba gear to retrieve said gun. you can argue the true definition of flip if you like but the boat flipped up on its side like I said. that is the gods honest truth. i am sorry for calling u a d bag obviously your an outstanding individual. and i do have a childish manner no doubt about that. iv told nothing but the truth any one who knows me can vouch for me that i am one of the most honest people you will ever meet. all though ruff always honest. i am sorry to see this get this far out of hand but it is more your doing then mine. i am also goanna set my face book to private soon as i figure out how. seams u found others threw me and made them uncomfortable. 
this is my last post on this page i will not be responding any farther. 
everyone else i apologize for all this.


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## Timber (Jan 1, 2009)

OK back to boats, TJ,hunts in extreme condition at times, just as I do, I'm assuming that the UFO was in some big seas like 6' high and wave time period of at least one 25' boat length? The trawth I like to call it. So that tells me if the boat was in those extreme condition, or a little less, UFO's is a boat I would consider looking for the best bang for my buck,and I don't mind Homer. Carry on, An Good Day:beer:

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## tonyhomer (Aug 15, 2011)

T.J. said:


> the boat flipped up on its side almost 90 degrees joe made a decision to let lose of his gun in order to keep the boat from rolling over. had he not it would have rolled completely over he was real close to losing it. his shoulder on up to his chest was soaked . that video was hours later when we came back with scuba gear to retrieve said gun. you can argue the true definition of flip if you like but the boat flipped up on its side like I said. that is the gods honest truth. i am sorry for calling u a d bag obviously your an outstanding individual. and i do have a childish manner no doubt about that. iv told nothing but the truth any one who knows me can vouch for me that i am one of the most honest people you will ever meet. all though ruff always honest. i am sorry to see this get this far out of hand but it is more your doing then mine. i am also goanna set my face book to private soon as i figure out how. seams u found others threw me and made them uncomfortable.
> this is my last post on this page i will not be responding any farther.
> everyone else i apologize for all this.


TJ its obvious this was a freak accident and probably why I was never notified to begin with. This is the second accident of this type now in the last year that has taken place that I am aware of, the other was another brand layout and this accident has become very popular on the internet forums lately and we actually shared it on our facebook page as well.

I would still like to Talk with the Joe who had this happen and get all the details so that I can provide it to the consumer to let them know these things can and do happen and hopefully keep them thinking safety at all times on the water.

With the amount of guys layout hunting now days I am sure there will be more of these type accidents and exactly why we tell everyone to make sure the boats they are using are safe to start with in case something were to ever happen. 

I said I was done and I am but I just wanted to let you know I have read your post and I too will apologize to you and everyone else for letting this get out of hand. 

Good Luck to everyone this season and be safe out there

Respectfully

Tony Homer


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## rosimike (Mar 10, 2011)

I know first hand about putting a layout on its side.The layout was anchored on the rear only.Was in 2 to 3 feet of water.The layout was positioned facing the shore.So i was shooting towards shore.The waves were less than a 1 ft.I had to bluebills come from my right.I took the first shot at 10 o clock. Second shot at 12 o clock.Third and finally shot between 1 and 2 o clock. At that time 
a wave came from my left side.So with my momentum and last shot.Next thing I knew the layout and me were going over over...kinda like a raft tipping over.I was scared @#it less.I took my gun and pushed it fast in the water pushing it to the bottom.Good thing I was in shallow water.So I pushed down with the gun and rocked the boat back.I never fully flipped over,...but came close.I blamed the boat I was in right away.Truthfully I believe it was the situation I was in.Any layout would have done this.If we would have hunted in deep water and this would happen.I might not be here.So newbies and seasoned hunters.Be aware under certain conditions....wind,,,waves and angle and momentum of your shot may cause you to flip.Just be safe...as best as you can.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Awww this is so cute. Everyone kissed and made up.


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## Nuff Daddy (Dec 5, 2012)

craigrh13 said:


> Awww this is so cute. Everyone kissed and made up.


I love happy endings.


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## Flooded Timber (Nov 1, 2006)

Nuff Daddy said:


> I love happy endings.


 
Wow, diver hunters are touchy...


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