# Please!!! Help identify these tree specimen



## esp17 (Jul 1, 2007)

Hello, my name is Paul, this is actually my bros account, and I am doing a Biology project, in which I have to collect 70 different trees (not conifers) native to Michigan. My problem here is the three books I am using don't have these trees and I can't find them on the internet. I was hoping with these pictures someone could identify these for me, or at least point me in the right direction. I will be forever grateful!!! I know that identifying is really difficult, but if anyone would know anything about these two leaves it would be a great help. 

Paul

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/?saved=1


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## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

Tree #2 looks like a Horse Chestnut to me. (Or possibly some type of Beech)

Still working on #1. I'll let you know shortly.

John


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## FishermanJohn (Apr 24, 2007)

Hi Paul,

#1 is really puzzling me. The leaves remind me of a beech or elm, but the fruit is throwing me off, and I can't find it in any of my books.

#2 could be a horse chestnut, which can have 5 leaves, but usually they are 7 in number and more sawtoothed. In my opinion, this one is a buckeye...smoother leaves, group of 5 leaves.


Here's a good website from MSU that hopefully can help you further. Please report back to us with your findings, and good luck on your research! 

http://forestry.msu.edu/extension/ExtDocs/idents.htm


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## FishermanJohn (Apr 24, 2007)

Ok, for #1, I'm going with hackberry. It could be common or dwarf, and both species are somewhat variable in appearance. Here's the description of each.

According to Trees of Michigan by Linda Kershaw (bolded as per text):
Common Hackberry Leaves: Alternate, simple, deciduous; blades 1 1/2-4 3/4" long, *bluish-green, smooth to slightly roughened above*, paler and hairy on *lacy network of veins beneath*, papery, bases *asymmetrical*, tips tapered to abruptly curved, *15-40 coarse, sharp teeth per side*; leaves light yellow in autumn.

Dwarf Hackberry Leaves; Alternate, simple, deciduous; blades 3 1/2-6 1/4" long, leathery, with *impressed veins above*, paler and hairy beneath, ovate, *bases symmetrical or slightly uneven*, tips tapered to pointed, *smooth-edged to partly or entirely sharp-toothed*; leaves light yellow in autumn.


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## aslongasitpullsback (Dec 30, 2005)

# 1 looks to be an american elm
# 2 looks to be an american beech

Can you give me some discriptions of the bark on both trees...

If tree #2 has silver smooth bark I should be correct....
Tree #1 If It has charcol very rough bark more than likely its a elm
more details would be good to ID them for you....


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## esp17 (Jul 1, 2007)

Wow!!! Thanks so much guys I will really look into these.


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## hitechman (Feb 25, 2002)

1. Chinese elm http://www.chineseelm.com/

Steve


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## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

Going off just the pics:

1.) Siberian elm (if you still have access to those branches take a magnifying glass and look at the buds - if they look fuzzy then I'm pretty sure it's a siberian elm)

2.) Ohio buckeye (ugh - I just threw up in my mouth)

I'm 75% + confident in these.


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## Michigan Mike (May 21, 2004)

If you enlarge tree #1 photo's, you see that it is diseased, and I want to say
it's an elm but the light grey bark reminds me more of a beech.
A pic of the trunk and bark would settle it though.

Pic 2 can't be a horse chestnut due to leaf shapes but could
be a buckeye.
Looking at the base of the tree for any husks and nuts would solve that imo.

Mike


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## axisgear (Jan 24, 2007)

#1 is for sure a Chinese elm tree and #2 is most likely an Eastern Hop Hornbeam[Handle wood]tree. If you had a photo of the complete tree[trunk bark close-up,and tree shape panoramic] I could be 100% positive,but for now I'm 95% sure.


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## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

After reading my textbook, I'm even more certain of my original reply.

Siberian elm description: flower buds numerous, relatively large, globose. Heavily attacked by the elm leaf beetle and often mistakenly called the Chinese elm, which is rarley cultivated. Do a search for siberian elm pics on yahoo and you'll find several examples of twigs with very large buds like in your pics.

Ohio buckeye (this is iffy because we're only going by the leaf): leaflets usually 5, rarely 7 blades - the description for Horsechestnut is the exact opposite: leaflets 7-9, rarely 5.


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## axisgear (Jan 24, 2007)

The second pic is ABSOLUTELY NOT buckeye or horse chestnut as both of those trees have compound leaves.The tree specimen shown has simple leaves[one leaf per stem] attached to the branch.Upon further review it is most likely American Hornbeam[Carpinus caroliniana]

I will rescind my first response and yield to the fact that the first tree is indeed a Siberian elm.I just get so used to calling them Chinese elms that I forget their correct name [Ulmus pumila]. The Siberian elm is an extremely prolific and invasive tree. 

I apologize for the mix up. Good luck with your studies.


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## fishingrookie (Feb 16, 2004)

The 2nd tree could be Ironwood tree. If there is a picture of the tree bark, it would be much easier to compare and identify.


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## axisgear (Jan 24, 2007)

fishingrookie said:


> The 2nd tree could be Ironwood tree. If there is a picture of the tree bark, it would be much easier to compare and identify.


Ironwood is American Hornbeam.


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## fishingrookie (Feb 16, 2004)

axisgear said:


> Ironwood is American Hornbeam.


:lol: When I first started morel hunting, I looked for morels under the dead Ironwood/Am. Hornbeam. They look like the elm trees though. Well, now I am good at identifying them.


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## axisgear (Jan 24, 2007)

You're not too far from being a decent horticulturist,fishingrookie! I learned trees while working to cut them down as a teenager. Now I try to remember trees while looking for the ideal native smoke wood for fish and game. I may not know much,but I do know my trees!


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## MAttt (Dec 15, 2004)

Here's my favorite tree site you can look up all trees mentioned except
the siberian elm.
http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/tabid/5361/default.aspx

My guess tree #1 is a diseased elm of some type
and tree #2 looks like the buckeye that is in my yard.

Tree 2 cannot be an ironwood since the leaves pictured are compound and not alternate.
Live Ironwood is a good host of black morels in parts of southern michigan
at times too.

Mattt


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## fishingrookie (Feb 16, 2004)

MAttt said:


> Here's my favorite tree site you can look up all trees mentioned except
> the siberian elm.
> http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/tabid/5361/default.aspx
> 
> ...


If you closely look at the pictures, you can see that these leaves are not compound. They are alternative. The piches are short so that they look like compound leaves. They may be beech leaves according to the shape of the buds.

So are you saying that the Ironwood is morel host tree? Hmmm, maybe I need to look under these trees again.


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## esp17 (Jul 1, 2007)

Thanks Guys! The 1st one is a Siberian elm, but I am still looking into the second one. (American Hornbeam looks and sounds about right.)


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## Due51 (Oct 26, 2005)

If your project is on NATIVE species, you better pick another one for the Siberian Elm. According to my Trees of Michigan Field Guide, the Siberian Elm is NON-native, introduced from Asia 50-75 years ago.


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