# 2 locked together 8 points



## Hulk (Dec 18, 2009)

Liver and Onions said:


> My first thought would have been to call a family member for some help and then to get a saw and try to cut one of the tines.
> I doubt that I would have ever called the DNR afterwards, regardless of the outcome.
> 
> L & O


Solid advice!
I agree 100%


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## Crusher (Jul 21, 2005)

beervo2 said:


> Why was it your job to get the deer out...No way in hell I would of done it...
> 
> Mike


 
Thats was my first thought


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## WALLEYE SEEKER (Nov 30, 2009)

You want them you drag the dang things out. 

To bad 2 very beautiful deer had to go to waste.

Shame on them


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## Sib (Jan 8, 2003)

Hodge said:


> Today I was out checking my tree stands since some things have came up "missing" lately on my property. I noticed a nice buck near one my stands. As I got closer I could see that it was locked up with another buck that had already died. I wanted to try and save the buck that was still alive so I called the DNR. I waited quite awhile for the DNR to show up. I live in a small town and word travels fast! The local cop showed up first and was going to issue me some tags but he couldn't since the DNR had already been contacted. The DNR officers finally show up, I take them out to the deer and on the way there I asked the two DNR officers if we could try and save the buck that was still alive. Before they even checked out the situation they said "no, I've been kicked before!" I didn't agree but kept my cool. We walked up on them and one of the DNR officers shot the deer twice as it was trying to get away dragging the dead buck still connected. The DNR officers told me I had to get the both deer out of the woods without separating them...Two hours later after getting my tractor stuck five times I finally got them out of the woods. I kept my cool but was very upset when they told me that I couldn't have the deer, they were taking them to the lab to be tested. I completely understand the whole testing thing but I didn't understand why I couldn't have possession of the deer after the lab tests were completed. They told me there was nothing they could do for me since it wasn't hunting season they were going to throw them in the incinerator after they were finished. I stayed calm but I highly doubt they were going to destroy them. If that was the case I am sure they wouldn't have been so worried about keeping the racks together as I worked to get them out of the woods. I have called around and can't seem to find anyone to help me with this situation. I have pictures to post but I am not sure how to post them. I can e-mail them to you if you would like to post them for me. Thanks!
> 
> PS if anyone has any contacts that could help me get the bucks back I would appreciate it! It's too bad that two nice bucks are no longer on the on the property and had to suffer like that! At least it would be nice to have them to tell the story!
> 
> ...


Doesn't sound like the CO handled the situation properly. If it were me I'd be going up a level and start to get some explanation from someone of authority. I'd also contact the local news, share the story and the name of the CO involved. I'm going to give the CO the benefit of the doubt at this point, but the incident is setting itself up perfectly for improprieties.


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## codybear (Jun 27, 2002)

Send them an itemized invoice for hauling it out and on the invoice note that payment can be paid with the racks..

CB


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## BigSteve (Sep 7, 2009)

beervo2 said:


> Why was it your job to get the deer out...No way in hell I would of done it...
> 
> Mike


No way i would have pulled those two deer out for them. I would have said you shot it, you drag it out.


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## BigSteve (Sep 7, 2009)

Sib said:


> Doesn't sound like the CO handled the situation properly. If it were me I'd be going up a level and start to get some explanation from someone of authority. I'd also contact the local news, share the story and the name of the CO involved. I'm going to give the CO the benefit of the doubt at this point, but the incident is setting itself up perfectly for improprieties.


 

 I would definently take it to the next level and or request if there's no way your getting those deer to provide proof they were indeed incinerated. More than likely they'll end up on the wall of one of those CO's or on the wall at the field office.


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## FISHMANMARK (Jun 11, 2007)

Hodge said:


> The DNR officers told me I had to get the both deer out of the woods without separating them...Two hours later after getting my tractor stuck five times I finally got them out of the woods.
> [/COLOR]
> 
> I kept my cool but was very upset when they told me that I couldn't have the deer, they were taking them to the lab to be tested. I completely understand the whole testing thing but I didn't understand why I couldn't have possession of the deer after the lab tests were completed.
> ...





If I'm understanding your above statements correctly.....

#1 The CO's told you to haul the deer out of the woods but you can't keep them.:16suspect


#2 The CO's stood around for 2 hours waiting for you to haul the deer out, or they went to the donut shop for 2 hours while they waited for you to haul out the deer you couldn't keep.:16suspect


#3 I'll stop there..... BS flag fully flying.

Oh, and your tractor looks pretty good for getting stuck 5 times. Whenever I get stuck everything is coated in mud, what's your secret in keeping it clean?:16suspect


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## portagelaker (Mar 3, 2008)

The first mistake was calling a DNR CO. They are utterly useless and inept in most every facet of game management. Idiots 99,9% of the time. Those deer died on your property, and should have been yours.

They have all the ability in the world to handle the situation the way they see it should be handled. Obviously, they are idiots. Choosing to waste such beautiful animals, one of which for sure could have been eaten. They aren't even going to donate the meat to the needy, but send it to some lab, where they chop off their heads, and throw away the bodies. Dumb dumb dumb.

Personally, I would have called a buddy, taken care of the situation, and gone about my day. No DNR, no Sheriff. Straight to my pole barn and butchered in 2 hours. Don't care what all the do gooders around here think about that either. Never called a cop to pick up a road kill, and never will.


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## spice64 (Dec 1, 2004)

My nieghber has about 500 lbs of carrots about 50 yards out his bathroom window and Ive called the dnr at least 5 times on him in the last year and they still havent shown up. You get 2 nice bucks waiting to be shot and they show up the same day. WoW. How does your obeying the law trump someone breaking the law? I think We all have learned a valuable lesson here.


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## DanSS26 (Jul 10, 2008)

Hodge said:


> The DNR officers told me I had to get the both deer out of the woods without separating them... I kept my cool but was very upset when they told me that I couldn't have the deer, they were taking them to the lab to be tested.


Take them out of the woods without separating them?? Why?? I bet that CO is going to have two heads stuck together in a nice mount in his home in the near future! 

If they wanted to do testing, they could have taken samples to the lab, not the whole deer. I would demand to know what lab they were taking them to, what they were testing for, and the results of the tests. And as suggested, I would definitely follow up with some higher ups in the DNRE to find out why they had to be removed without separating them, and why the whole bodies had to be sent to the lab. Just sounds too fishy to me.


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## BWHUNTR (Oct 3, 2008)

a couple years ago a guy from Charlotte, found 2 locked, bucks dead in his pond. It wasn't kept secret, it made the Lansing State Journal. If I remember correctly he was awarded both bucks and was having both locked bucks mounted for himself. In other words, he got to keep them? Other than the bucks were already dead, whats the difference, you're now dealing with 2 dead bucks. If it were me, I would pursue this. Something don't add up here :16suspect Just my .02


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## EAGAL (Aug 29, 2000)

One deer was dead, shouldn't that be treated like a shed found?


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## Chips (Sep 7, 2010)

I would have never even thought about calling the DNR...why get them involved...I know you were trying to do the right thing though...next time just be careful and take matters into your own hands.


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## buck37 (Aug 8, 2002)

Right or wrong for calling the DNR, I don't know, probably right. I certainly wouldn't promote illegal activities as some member have no problem doing.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Hodge said:


> Today I was out checking ........




I would like to suggest to the OP that he contact Michigan Out of Doors TV and see if they would like to cover the story. Also Woods-n-Water News might like to print the story. I suggest this not to bash the DNR or how this was handled, but because it is a story of great interest to many of us.
Like several others, I don't see why the heads weren't cut off the bucks after shooting the one buck that was alive, then they could've been carried from the field rather easily.

L & O


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## JHart (Nov 5, 2009)

In response to danSS26 question on where they are taking them for testing, i would assume they are up at the DNR research and testing lab here at MSU, I know thats where they test alot of deer for diseases and have an incinerator there


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## jackbob42 (Nov 12, 2003)

I don't kow why they didn't call somebody in to separate the two.
Years ago , Dr Asa Kelly cut two big bucks apart. Just south of Jackson if I recall right. 
They used to play that video every year on Michigan Outdoors. Don't know if they still do or not. I'd like to see it again if anyone has access to it or knows where I can find it.


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## truala (Sep 22, 2010)

if deer are property of the state then they need to start paying me for when deer run in to side of my car on a state road,hwy,interstate,ect


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## beervo2 (May 7, 2006)

truala said:


> if deer are property of the state then they need to start paying me for when deer run in to side of my car on a state road,hwy,interstate,ect


Yea, but Michigan happens to be a no fault insurance state....:lol:

Mike


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## badger (Mar 9, 2005)

Dear Lt (insert name)

Recently two of your officers killed a deer on my property and ordered me to remove it, along with a dead deer that had locked antlers with the one they killed. While following their orders, I strained my back, incurred damage to my tractor and to my property. 

Enclosed please find my medical bill, my tractor repair bill, and the bill for repairing the road the tractor damaged. 

It has been a pleasure working for your department.


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## Hulk (Dec 18, 2009)

*Mary Dettloff*, *DNR* (517) 335-3014


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## IH guy (Oct 10, 2009)

Funny how the DNR has no real organization everything seems to be one officer in one area does one thing and one another. no real standards they just pretty much do what they want.

I do agree with billing you didnt have to haul it out and since you did it for the DNR an operator and piece of equipment is a very pricey item. They could have sent out their own equipment they have plenty of it. I say sent old Jenny the bill
[/COLOR] 
Also I guess I would follow up with the director of the lab and file a freedom of information act to see what was found and what was done with them after testing it would have to be logged due to regulations.

to make sure it was all on the up and up


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## hawkeye642 (Jul 27, 2010)

Do yoy want the antlers back? They have a right to keep the deer as they are state property. But they also need to reimburse you for what you did and they will!

Send them a bill for what it would have cost them had they hired someone else? Send it to your district headquarters. Wait for a response. 

If no response, get a lawyer friend or pay a lawyer a nominal fee to write you a letter stating your equipment, time, gas and damage to land, etc. need reimbursement and will seek legal action if necessary. You were under the direction of an officer for removal of the deer.

Then when they want to settle which they will because they are the state. Trade them for the antlers.


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## Hodge (Jul 6, 2007)

talk to lt. Gordan of the dnr and express your feelings. 517-641-4903. Thanks everybody. I appreciate the help.


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## TwodogsNate (Jul 30, 2009)

Hodge said:


> talk to lt. Gordan of the dnr and express your feelings. 517-641-4903. Thanks everybody. I appreciate the help.


The phone has been busy for a while now. They must of been getting a ton of calls so they took the phone of the hook. The Michigan DNRE once again shows us how worthless they are. Hodge Ill keep calling.


Any DNRE employees on this site care to comment on your selfish co workers Bad decisions ?


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## S.E.M.O.R.E. (Nov 1, 2008)

Hodge, you've got email.......


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## Hodge (Jul 6, 2007)

S.E.M.O.R.E

I got your email, thanks I'll get ahold of you monday when I get back to town
.


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## BigSteve (Sep 7, 2009)

rz6x59 said:


> I found this while searching Mary's name. I am not sure if it is her current email but fire away. Keep the pressure on.
> 
> 
> [email protected]


 
+1 I sent a message too, we'll see what happens.


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## fishx65 (Aug 24, 2005)

Noticed this thread was getting really long so I decided to take a look. After reading, I've lost a lot of respect for Michigan's DNR. Why do they need to get these bucks tested? Does the DNR test every deer they find dead? I've heard of many people getting a permit to keep a deer they hit with an auto: do these deer have to be tested before the driver gets to eat them? Something is very-very wrong with this picture!


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## Krmnnghia (Oct 2, 2007)

Fired off an email. Not sure what good it will do but it can't hurt.


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## thongg (Jul 10, 2007)

Lt jane gordon what great memories she delayed my permit to hunt from a vechicle last year after i had it renewed two times before she wanted new dr info she has meet me at dnr meeting me in my wheelchair she walking good luck with her also off mendez has been to mt house 3 times to interview me to see if i was still disabled he seemed to be just following orders


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## jakeo (Sep 14, 2004)

*These are from the person I typed to...*

The building housing the wildlife disease lab is owned by MSU. They control access. The incinerator area is in a secured, restricted space with a very high level of biosecurity The only workers allowed near the incinerator have special biosecurity training. Members of the public are not allowed in the biosecurity area.

The deer heads were removed for disease testing. When the heads were removed, the antlers unlocked. The carcasses and heads will be incinerated as is protocol at the disease lab. The antlers were sawed off and donated to the MSU College of Natural Resources for educational purposes, as is standard protocol for the DNRE when we acquire an animal this way.

Mary Dettloff

*Then I recieved this,,,,,,*

By the way, this very same explanation was given to John Schneider. I'm not sure if he reported it in his story because I do not read the Lansing State Journal.

Mary Dettloff

*I am glad she responded to my e-mail which said:*

Why cant we the public see first hand what has happend to those locked together deer?


I' M WAITING NOW.......THIS IS JUST NOT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!


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## S.E.M.O.R.E. (Nov 1, 2008)

Hodge said:


> S.E.M.O.R.E
> 
> I got your email, thanks I'll get ahold of you monday when I get back to town
> .


Look forward to hearing from you.


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## Dom (Sep 19, 2002)

What, has Chernobyl struck in Michigan too? Or just the DNR? Interesting . . . 

So two bucks doing what nature calls for, fighting over turf and then lock horns. Sure sounds like they need to be tested for unnatural behavior to me 

Haul 'em off to be tested and incinerated. This is unbelievable and just doesn't pass the common sense test.

And then they wonder why the public takes a dim view on some of their actions. Hopefully this is just a botched case. Would be hard to believe if this is standard protocol, Waidmannsheil, Dom.


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## hypox (Jan 23, 2000)

Ha! Why did these deer need to be tested to begin with? If they are so concerned about testing they should be picking up road kill! What a joke.


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## StumpJumper (Nov 13, 2001)

What a disgrace. 

The deer should've been tranquilized and freed. 

The whole chain of events is pure BS on the DNR's part. I wouldn't let up on them.


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## Krmnnghia (Oct 2, 2007)

Got a response from Mary today...



> To me, it is a sad day when people base opinions about an entire department on a story that does not include all the facts. The DNRE stands by how this incident was handled because we have handled similar incidents the same way because the officer followed protocol.
> 
> Thank you for your note.
> 
> Mary Dettloff


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## Stiny357 (Nov 8, 2009)

I found a dead buck on my property last year and called the DNR to see if they wanted it for testing, etc. and was told "No, we don't do that." I think you got hosed.


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## thwack_master76 (Feb 14, 2010)

spice64 said:


> My nieghber has about 500 lbs of carrots about 50 yards out his bathroom window and Ive called the dnr at least 5 times on him in the last year and they still havent shown up. You get 2 nice bucks waiting to be shot and they show up the same day. WoW. How does your obeying the law trump someone breaking the law? I think We all have learned a valuable lesson here.


Very well put!!!!!!!!!


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## anonymous7242016 (Aug 16, 2008)

I have a DNR story for ya. 
I got stopped two years ago by a CO to check out a doe in the back of the truck. He did his job congradulated me and then we BSed about hunting. Well 3 weeks prior I had shot an 11 point buck that I did not find until 2 weeks after shooting it. I took the head.
He informed me that it was illegal to be in possesion of deer heads or antlers without a tag unless it was a shed. He told me to give him my cell # and that the next weekend I was to bring the head with me. He gave me two options, 1 put a tag on the head, or 2 give the head to him. I tagged it. We met the next week, he confirmed the tag, end of story. I asked him what would of happened to the head if I let him have it. He told me it would more than likely be put on display somewhere, or used for educational purposes.
There was no concern with lab testing or even a mention of lab testing.
I have a buddy who gets road kill permits all the time. Never once has he heard and CO or local law enforcment say they need to take the deer for testing.
My question would be why are you taking these two deer to be tested and not the 100's of dead deer on the roads in this area. (we know the real answer)


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## BigSteve (Sep 7, 2009)

Here's the response to the email I sent to Mary Dettloff, asking the bucks be returned to the man who found them.


The officer followed department protocol as explained to Mr. Schneider. The deer were transported to the wildlife disease lab for disease testing for bovine tuberculosis, chronic wasting disease and two mosquito-borne diseases we are tracking. While removing the heads for testing, the antlers unlocked. The carcasses are to be incinerated by MSU. They own the facility where the wildlife diease lab is located. The heads will also be incinerated once our scientists collect the samples of brain tissue they need for testing. The antlers were sawed off and are being donated to the MSU College of Natural Resources for educational purposes. Every bit of this is what the DNRE does when we take possession of an animal under these types of circumstances. 

Again, this was all carefully explained, twice, in fact, to Mr. Schneider. I don't know what he chose to include in his story because I don't read the Lansing State Journal.

Thank you for your note.

Mary Dettloff


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## jakeo (Sep 14, 2004)

Dont give up........Something is NOT right!!


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## StumpJumper (Nov 13, 2001)

bucksnbows said:


> My question would be why are you taking these two deer to be tested and not the 100's of dead deer on the roads in this area. (we know the real answer)



My question is WHY did they kill a live animal to take in for testing... did y'all miss that part?


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## chris_kreiner (Sep 6, 2006)

StumpJumper said:


> My question is WHY did they kill a live animal to take in for testing... did y'all miss that part?


  Why wasn't he givin a fighting chance? Or did they just feel like shooting something!!


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## StumpJumper (Nov 13, 2001)

Maybe they only have tranquilizer guns over in Africa.


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## myduc996 (Jan 16, 2003)

One of the COs stated he had been kicked by a deer once so he had no interest in freeing the buck still alive. In the DNRs defense, whitetail deer in general do not do well being tranquilized...especially under stress. Corey and I were ready and willing to saw off an antler to free the buck but once the DNR showed up, they had jurisdiction.


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## unclecbass (Sep 29, 2005)

Nothing like the old DNR to stimulate a little hunter cooperation. 


DNR=waste of my tax money, what a damn joke. 

Next time just shoot the deer yourself and keep both racks.


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## HunterHawk (Dec 8, 2005)

so about the response about being used for education... if they go to the msu natural resources department they sit in a glass case and no one gives 2 sheets about them! I took an easy class in the natural resources department and remembered seeing the rack in the case!

I think i was the only one in the class who even looked at it! it is really a shame that that would be where they are going!


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## fishx65 (Aug 24, 2005)

If the CO's really did insist that you not unlock the racks to get them out of the woods, only one conclusion can be drawn. One of the CO's wanted a cool mount! Now that this case has gone public, at least they won't get the racks.


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## rz6x59 (Nov 9, 2008)

Fishx65, I wish I could believe that these animals and heads will be managed in a way that is consistant with prior DNRE practice. The ego's are so big in organizations that make and enforce the law that its anyone's guess what the true outcome will be.

It would be easy enough for the DNRE to write up additional language that clearly states what the procedure would be in the case you find an animal on your property.


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## KPOD (Nov 17, 2009)

jakeo said:


> ...MSU College of Natural Resources for educational purposes, as is standard protocol for the DNRE when we acquire an animal this way.


Hey that's a few buildings away from where I work, maybe some late evening...:evil:


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

I'd be questioning Detloff about the CO's not issuing a permit to keep the deer,,, on top of that,, ask her if it's normal protocol to make the landowner use his own equipment to do the CO's job!!!:rant:

P.S.,,, someone should link this to the DNR's facebook page.


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## Mightymouse (Sep 19, 2007)

I am not going to read back through all the posts to see if this was already stated but here's my thoughts.

Not to be a buzzkill but the deer in question are/were property of the state. Nobody has any more right to them than the state does. The officers, as agents of the state had all the right to handle it as they saw fit. 

It's unfortunate that they weren't more polite about the situation and they certainly could have helped a bit in the removal of the animals.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigSteve (Sep 7, 2009)

Mightymouse said:


> I am not going to read back through all the posts to see if this was already stated but here's my thoughts.
> 
> Not to be a buzzkill but the deer in question are/were property of the state. Nobody has any more right to them than the state does. The officers, as agents of the state had all the right to handle it as they saw fit.
> 
> ...


Yup, already mentioned and still a sh#$%y excuse.


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## buckwiz (Aug 14, 2007)

Why would ANYONE expect to keep the deer? Im sure everyone would want them but...... I seriously dont get why you would expect them to give the deer too you??? Maybe im missing something here, but dang its not like YOU hunted them???? You didnt blast them with your car and have to spend $$$ They would look good on the wall or whatever but I dont see what all the stink is about????? Its like you think they were your deer or you have some special rights???? Im also not blaming you or bashing you for throwing a fit. I just didnt get what the fuss was all about...........


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

buckwiz said:


> Why would ANYONE expect to keep the deer? Im sure everyone would want them but...... I seriously dont get why you would expect them to give the deer too you??? Maybe im missing something here, but dang its not like YOU hunted them???? You didnt blast them with your car and have to spend $$$ They would look good on the wall or whatever but I dont see what all the stink is about????? Its like you think they were your deer or you have some special rights???? Im also not blaming you or bashing you for throwing a fit. I just didnt get what the fuss was all about...........


IMO,, the fuss is about this supposed "protocol"..... 

Hundreds, if not thousands of permits are handed out for dead deer, road kills, whatever. Thousands of deer are left rotting on the side of the road for months, I've seen "years" in some cases. The DNR don't seem so concerned about those deer,,, yet for some odd reason, they felt the need to confiscate these deer???? 

Not only that,, they make the landowner do all the dirty work?? Getting his tractor stuck,, tearing up his property????? W T F ??


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## Sib (Jan 8, 2003)

William H Bonney said:


> IMO,, the fuss is about this supposed "protocol".....
> 
> Hundreds, if not thousands of permits are handed out for dead deer, road kills, whatever. Thousands of deer are left rotting on the side of the road for months, I've seen "years" in some cases. The DNR don't seem so concerned about those deer,,, yet for some odd reason, they felt the need to confiscate these deer????
> 
> Not only that,, they make the landowner do all the dirty work?? Getting his tractor stuck,, tearing up his property????? W T F ??


I have a Ben Franklin that says had the owner said, "no thanks they're your deer you get them out," the heads would have come off then.


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## buckwiz (Aug 14, 2007)

William H Bonney said:


> IMO,, the fuss is about this supposed "protocol".....
> 
> Hundreds, if not thousands of permits are handed out for dead deer, road kills, whatever. Thousands of deer are left rotting on the side of the road for months, I've seen "years" in some cases. The DNR don't seem so concerned about those deer,,, yet for some odd reason, they felt the need to confiscate these deer????
> 
> Not only that,, they make the landowner do all the dirty work?? Getting his tractor stuck,, tearing up his property????? W T F ??


 
Im GUESSING it went like this........ Oh I have a tractor let me go get it, I can get them out real quick for ya. Im very much doubting the COs said, Hey its your job or responsability to get em in our truck........ Why Bitch about what they did??? A homeowner called them said hey, I have deer killing each other on my property. They show up, take care of the problem........... Honestly the state is looking at it like two deer out of a million. They didnt care they were BIG bucks, just two deer killing each other............ People should be glad that they have someone to call ???? I hear lots of people complaining about the DNR, sounds like they showed up and took care of situation??? I do understand wanting them but sometimes you gotta be a man, he had no right to the deer........ All the complaining and bugging the DNR about it, sorry I dont understand.


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## foxriver6 (Oct 23, 2007)

William H Bonney said:


> IMO,, the fuss is about this supposed "protocol".....
> 
> Hundreds, if not thousands of permits are handed out for dead deer, road kills, whatever. Thousands of deer are left rotting on the side of the road for months, I've seen "years" in some cases. The DNR don't seem so concerned about those deer,,, yet for some odd reason, they felt the need to confiscate these deer????
> 
> Not only that,, they make the landowner do all the dirty work?? Getting his tractor stuck,, tearing up his property????? W T F ??


Does anyone really think that the officers "MADE HIM" use his tractor to retrieve the deer????


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

buckwiz said:


> Im GUESSING it went like this........ Oh I have a tractor let me go get it, I can get them out real quick for ya. Im very much doubting the COs said, Hey its your job or responsability to get em in our truck........ Why Bitch about what they did??? A homeowner called them said hey, I have deer killing each other on my property. They show up, take care of the problem........... Honestly the state is looking at it like two deer out of a million. They didnt care they were BIG bucks, just two deer killing each other............ People should be glad that they have someone to call ???? I hear lots of people complaining about the DNR, sounds like they showed up and took care of situation??? I do understand wanting them but sometimes you gotta be a man, he had no right to the deer........ All the complaining and bugging the DNR about it, sorry I dont understand.


 EXACTLY!! It's 2 deer out of a million!!! Why those 2?? And one of 'em was already DEAD!


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## myduc996 (Jan 16, 2003)

I will not speak for Corey but I was there so I can perhaps shed some light on the situation. Neither Corey or I ever claimed the DNR "made" us remove the deer. They asked us what we had to remove the deer. Corey said he had a tractor and an ATV. The DNR asked if he thought he could get either one back to the deer because they couldn't leave them there and they would like them tested. Corey said "I think so". We took it as an authority figure asking us to do something...just as a police officer would ask you to step out of a vehicle. Not a buddy calling you on the phone asking you to do something. Regarding the ownership of the horns. People find dead deer in the woods all of the time. Whether shed hunting, mushrooming, or just walking in the woods. The legal way to acquire the horns is to get a kill tag from a police or DNR officer. The other way is to remove the horns illegally and hope to never get caught in possession of a set of horns without a permit. Corey found a dead deer in the woods on his own property that happened to be connected to another buck. Legally he did the right thing by contacting the authorities to get a kill tag AND figure out how to possibly save the other buck. Keep in mind our first goal was to try and save the buck that was still alive...or end his suffering. We didn't go into this as an "antler grab". It wasn't until the DNR shot the buck that Corey inquired about getting a permit for the antlers. It's real easy to sit on at home and say the deer are the property of Michigan so you have no say. But when you have a sheriff's deputy ready to write you 2 kill tags for 2 nice bucks sitting in your back yard that you discovered and dragged out of the woods but the DNR shows up and says you can't have the deer and they are going to incinerate them, it kinda stings. It would have been no skin off of the DNRs nose to give possession to Corey. They acted like these deer died of mysterious caused and must be tested. They can find tons of dead deer to test lying along side the road but it seems they are not interested. Why are they willing to leave thousands of deer dead along the side of the road and if you call them they tell you they do not remove them from the road. But when there are 2 nice bucks locked together back in the swamp, they suddenly need them removed. I was there and the whole thing seemed fishy.


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## StumpJumper (Nov 13, 2001)

My reply back from Mary Dettloff......


As was explained to Mr. Schneider, tranquilizing a highly stressed animal will only send it in to cardiac arrest. We only tranquilize animals in very select circumstances. We only own a few tranquilizing devices and only have certain personnel trained in using them on certain species, such as bear. In this case, euthanization of a highly stressed animal was more humane.

And the gentleman involved was not the landowner of the property where the deer were found. Again, that was explained to Mr. Schneider.

The conservation officer who responded followed department protocol for dealing with a highly distressed animal. Again, all of the protocol was explained to Mr. Schneider. He chose to only report parts of it.

Mary Dettloff


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## S.E.M.O.R.E. (Nov 1, 2008)

StumpJumper said:


> My reply back from Mary Dettloff......
> 
> 
> As was explained to Mr. Schneider, tranquilizing a highly stressed animal will only send it in to cardiac arrest. We only tranquilize animals in very select circumstances. We only own a few tranquilizing devices and only have certain personnel trained in using them on certain species, such as bear. In this case, euthanization of a highly stressed animal was more humane.
> ...


TRULY AMAZING! Does she or doesnt she read LSJ???

Come January with any luck at all the "Skirts" will be outta there! Humphries, Koch, Dettlofff and a few others. Since they have been at the wheel DNR has lost it's credibility, license sales are down or up depending on who they give the interview to and what should be reflected to either justify lack of funding or finding a surplus.

If this was on MY property it would have been handled a bit differently. I dont know who or how the DNR happened on this scene, but if the Sheriff was there and going to issue tags that should have been the end of it. DNR would have been advised to LEAVE. (under THIS circumstance)

I am privy to a story about a deer in northern Michigan that had a broadhead in it's snout. Calls were made to DNR and they said let nature take it's course. The story goes a person was contacted that had a connection to a vet, got a tranquilizer dart, used the dart, removed the broadhead, and the deer went on it's merry way.

IF Corey wanted to saw off the antlers to give the buck a chance, why not...if it arrested, oh well, it's not like it was any more stressed out with being immobile and all of them standing around there. If it was a success, it would be a non event. IF it didnt work out it wouldnt have the negativity it currently has.

Must be some pretty good training those CO's get to diagnose a medical condition on a deer. I mean, I have seen deer with broken legs carry through several years with a busted joint that never heals, does have had two and three fawns a year, some missing half a leg, others with part of their nose missing, an eye missing etc., and I cant believe cutting off an antler would somehow have killed this deer.

People I have spoke with about this questioned "what about the meat"? along with comments such as "IDIOTS", "That's just stupid", and one said "Who the @*[email protected] do they think they are??!"

I have read many articles about animals perceived in distress due to injury and DNR said let nature take it's course. Based upon my experience, this story certainly stinks of greed to get the locked antlers.

As far as protocol? That's apparently code for SCREW YOU! The day DNRE follows protocol is the day they are flush with ample funding using that money for it's intended purpose, and no longer short of Conservation Officers on the roster or eliminating CO positions.


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## TwodogsNate (Jul 30, 2009)

Hodge, Any luck getting them back


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