# Allegan Dam thread 2015



## Thebassologist (Jan 2, 2014)

Just wondering what the report is, and if anyone has been fishing. Have seen a thread, figured I'd start it.


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

Thebassologist said:


> Just wondering what the report is, and if anyone has been fishing. Have seen a thread, figured I'd start it.


Thats because the locals like to keep it on the down low. Lets keep it that way.


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## Elliot7595 (Jun 15, 2014)

Multispeciestamer said:


> Thats because the locals like to keep it on the down low. Lets keep it that way.


You know you just came across as a major @$#@%#$


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

Elliot7595 said:


> You know you just came across as a major @$#@%#$


Unfortunately someones got to be that way. I am sorry but its just the way it is.


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## Thebassologist (Jan 2, 2014)

There's no unfortunately about it! I fish there quite a bit in Oct. Ill make sure to tell a good dozen ppl or so. Doesn't hurt my feelings to say where the fish are


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## Elliot7595 (Jun 15, 2014)

I respect the keeping it quite thing I not doubt do the same.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Yeah all those fish belong to the locals dontcha know!... Allegan Dam's been a secret for 40 years!... And especially stay away around opening day of Small Game.... There' no Steelhead to be caught then.... especially at Berrien...


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Like that area is really a secret.

If you know enough to keep it quiet, then you're not flossing at the wall or the old fish ladder on the trib to the above river.

I would say half the locals don't even have access to the internet, but then most of the ones I financially counsel through a local charity have $600 smart phones. No clothes for your kid, no food in the fridge, no plan on what happens if an appliance breaks down, but cable and high speed internet and a smart phone.


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## Thebassologist (Jan 2, 2014)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> Like that area is really a secret.
> 
> If you know enough to keep it quiet, then you're not flossing at the wall or the old fish ladder on the trib to the above river.
> 
> I would say half the locals don't even have access to the internet, but then most of the ones I financially counsel through a local charity have $600 smart phones. No clothes for your kid, no food in the fridge, no plan on what happens if an appliance breaks down, but cable and high speed internet and a smart phone.



Hahahaha


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## weatherby (Mar 26, 2001)

If the DNR is gonna reduce their fish stocking in the Great Lakes I would like to see them plant the fish where fisherman are welcome with open arms instead of left in the dark and fed lies. Especially after reading some of the posts we have going on right now


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

I am not a local of that river. And I do not participate in the shenanigans that happen up at that dam. But I do have respect for the people who do call the area "home". The area is not a secret by any means, but why should we bring even more attention to it then need be? or any of the other areas on other rivers for that matter. This site is not for the naming of specific areas like said dam, said run, etc. If you wish to talk about the river as a whole that would be more accepting.


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## jbck109 (Jan 24, 2012)

Construction at dam, pretty sure its closed. Probably why there is nothing about it, this was as of abut 2 weeks ago, so could have changed.


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## Smada962 (Feb 18, 2009)

weatherby said:


> I would like to see them plant the fish where fisherman are welcome with open arms instead of left in the dark and fed lies.


Care to remove your tin foil hat for a minute and elaborate?


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Allegan Dam Story:

Fishing with my minister on a weekday dropping flat fish down the tail end of the run by the wall. Two guys show up and fish the wall, we collectively are the only people there. I move over to give them room and anchor in the middle of the river.

These guys are putting on a flossing clinic, setting the hook every couple seconds, and smacking their fish on the stairs to kill them and kicking them out of the way to keep fishing. You know when the floss is on you have to be as effecient as possible.

Then the one guy looks at me, and says "I know you, you're going to post this on M-S. If you do, I'll kill you. In fact I'm going to go over to the parking lot and stomp your ass when you leave just to make sure you don't" and then keeps on going with the f bombs.

I pointed out to tone down the langauge, as I was with a man of the Word, and then he really started with his limited but loud repetoire.

The whole time I had an uncased and loaded 12 on the seat just in case a duck flew the river. Right then one came over, I pulled up and crushed it. If you've ever wondered how loud a 3.5" 12 is in that valley, it's impressively loud. I shucked out the empty, looked at him, and said "You ready to stomp my ass now?"

Never seen someone grab fish and run across the road as fast as they did.


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## LushLife (Mar 3, 2008)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> Allegan Dam Story:
> 
> Fishing with my minister on a weekday dropping flat fish down the tail end of the run by the wall. Two guys show up and fish the wall, we collectively are the only people there. I move over to give them room and anchor in the middle of the river.
> 
> ...


Story of the year! Can anyone out there top it?


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## LushLife (Mar 3, 2008)

If you've ever witnessed said shenanigans then you've got to find humor in some of the stories....

A buddy shared with me a story about how a few years ago at Allegan Dam he was anchored in the middle when another boat anchored right next to him. Words encouraging the interloper to vacate fell on deaf ears, so my buddy, when the other guy was trying to ignore him, jumped into the other guy's boat, explained he was a little too close, and then jumped back into his own boat. The other guy pulled anchor immediately....


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Love it.

Many falls ago the water was low and there was an island just upstream from the launch. I was sharing it with an insanely obese guy in a lawn chair, who I have to admit had 2 of his 3 fish limit to my not having as much as a hit.

He hooks up, gets out of his chair with amazing nimbleness, and is fighting the fish. A CO wades out to watch, and the guy has no net, so he pulls the fish onto the sand. The fish comes unhooked and is flopping around, and ends up back in the river. The guy springs on it like a ninja, and grabs it.

The CO says "you can't land a fish by hand" and as the guys has a death grip on this kang, they have a discussion about legal landing methods. The guy then sets the fish down on its side in about an inch of water, picks up his rod, drops the spoon into the gasping king's mouth, sets the hook, pulls the fish about 12" up onto the sand, and the CO says "now that's legal".

As he's unhooking it, one of the other kings on his stringer seizes the opportunity to make a break for it and somehow gets the strength to loosen the chair up from where it was thoroughly embedded into the sand.

Ninja girthy guy goes sprinting down the sand bar with the freshly and legally landed salmon on one hand, grabs the lawn chair just as it's leaving the tail end of the island with the other, then somehow picks up his rod and wades across the river, up the hill and into the parking lot without dropping anything.

I looked at the CO and just shook my head.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Took may daughter to the stairs one time just as we were in the area. There was blood every where. And a freshly liberated molar sitting on the cement.


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## Scadsobees (Sep 21, 2006)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> And a freshly liberated molar sitting on the cement.


That's so sad...now the poor guy has NO teeth!

At least from what I've read of the area and all the stories


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## Scadsobees (Sep 21, 2006)

I'm not familiar with the area...so all the salmon swim up to the dam, get stopped, swim around for a while, then all die unfulfilled, never to procreate? Does it matter how they die at that point??


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## alecatt (Jul 20, 2012)

After reading numerous articles on the subject, the situation at present is grave. Alewife populations this year are estimated down 90% from a record low in 2014, and salmon populations down 75% from 2012. It is further estimated that there are currently 5 times more Quagga mussels, by weight, than prey fish in Lake Michigan.

What a sad state of affairs. At least I have some great memories of what it was like to see so many salmon at Allegan that you could almost walk across the water on their backs, and 5 (legal) fish in the cooler within a couple hours, while taking turns landing fish for others. I hope they can bring things back...


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## Smada962 (Feb 18, 2009)

It is a sad situation right now. What is more sad is the amount of fisherman out there that I've seen claim the lake is still full of alewives and that the DNR is doing this as a cost cutting measure. Just because they mark a couple balls of bait does not mean the alewife population is thriving. It must really be tough working for the DNR since a lot of people out there will just never be pleased no matter what they do. I think we should all be thankful we had the salmon fishery we did for so long. I just wish I would have started pursuing them earlier so I could have taken advantage of some of the good old days.


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## alecatt (Jul 20, 2012)

I don't see how cutting costs by reducing restocking would be in the best interests of anybody. More like cutting one's throat. The salmon fishing business is a huge money maker for the state of Michigan as well as all those associated with the tackle, bait, boat, motel, restaurant, and fishing charter businesses. The loss of this revenue stream was/is the main concern over Asian carp invading the Great Lakes.

Something is seriously out of balance, but I doubt it's as simple as DNR tightening its purse strings. Seeing how well this fishery took off and how long it lasted speaks volumes about DNR's ability to manage it.


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## Smada962 (Feb 18, 2009)

alecatt said:


> I don't see how cutting costs by reducing restocking would be in the best interests of anybody. More like cutting one's throat. The salmon fishing business is a huge money maker for the state of Michigan as well as all those associated with the tackle, bait, boat, motel, restaurant, and fishing charter businesses. The loss of this revenue stream was/is the main concern over Asian carp invading the Great Lakes.
> 
> Something is seriously out of balance, but I doubt it's as simple as DNR tightening its purse strings. Seeing how well this fishery took off and how long it lasted speaks volumes about DNR's ability to manage it.


I completely agree, and that's been my exact argument when I encounter someone who feels that way.


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## aroflinger (Sep 4, 2011)

I for one am on the conspiracy theory. I just find it funny how we just got a ton of new officers. They will need new truck and pistols and gear. We're basically strong armed into buying a trout stamp to fish for salmon. What's going to happen when there are no Salmon, am I going to be forced to buy an all species license? Every fish I do catch even the lake trout, that don't target alewife, are full of alewives. People just want to believe a lot in what the GOVERNMENT tells them.


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## Smada962 (Feb 18, 2009)

aroflinger said:


> . People just want to believe a lot in what the GOVERNMENT tells them.


There aren't too many people who dislike and distrust our corrupt government as much as me, so that's ridiculous. I stand by what I've been saying, planting less salmon will hurt the DNR financially considerably more than whatever they would save by raising less salmon in the hatcheries. It's not even close. 

And for the crying about license fees, go do some research on the increase in license fees over the years compared to inflation. Nearly every single expense in this world has gone up over time, yet our license costs did not until recently, and still didn't go up enough to keep up with inflation over the years. 

Not everything the DNR does is perfect or I agree with, but they do way more good than most people will ever give them credit for. Unless some evidence surfaces that shows the DNR planted the zebras and quaggas themselves then I will continue to defend their position on this issue.


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## aroflinger (Sep 4, 2011)

I agree that it will hurt the DNR to plant less salmon. They had to cut something. To pay for all the conservation officers, that will need new trucks, gas to pay for the trucks and gear. 
I'm not crying about the license fees. Hell I'd pay 50 bucks a year to catch salmon. With that being said, what did they do with the money that they have collected from the all species licenses? I'm sure as you know people used to have a choice to not buy a trout stamp. Did they use that money for deer management, or get trucks and more CO's? I'm not saying we don't need more CO's. I just will have a hard time paying for an all species license when we don't have salmon. I wouldn't want to pay for a shark license when we don't have sharks. It boils down to, I think they can do more.


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## jd_speed (Jul 22, 2014)

aroflinger said:


> I agree that it will hurt the DNR to plant less salmon. They had to cut something. To pay for all the conservation officers, that will need new trucks, gas to pay for the trucks and gear.
> I'm not crying about the license fees. Hell I'd pay 50 bucks a year to catch salmon. With that being said, what did they do with the money that they have collected from the all species licenses? I'm sure as you know people used to have a choice to not buy a trout stamp. Did they use that money for deer management, or get trucks and more CO's? I'm not saying we don't need more CO's. I just will have a hard time paying for an all species license when we don't have salmon. I wouldn't want to pay for a shark license when we don't have sharks. It boils down to, I think they can do more.


The reason they aren't planting more salmon is because there is not enough baitfish to support them at least that's what they are saying... I don't believe it is a money issue.


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## aroflinger (Sep 4, 2011)

I understand that's what they are saying. I'm just saying what I'm seeing. And what all my other charter buddys are seeing. We can run through "bait clouds" what we believe to be alewives. And not catch anything but maybe a steelhead. If we run deep enough we will get all the 18lb Lakers we want. And they are full of alewives. So my thought is they say screw it we can spend money elsewhere and the feds are dumping Lakers in the lake for people to catch. Anyway this is my opinion and we all have one. And this thread is getting off subject, kind of.


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## jd_speed (Jul 22, 2014)

I don't fish the lakes so I guess I'm just regurgitating what I've read....;-)


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

Ill try to lay it out.
There are Alewife in Lake Michigan, they are by no means gone. Numbers are down but, the Science used to conduct alewife biomass numbers is flawed. Lake Michigan is a volatile system, the fact that their system to collect data worked as long as it did is quite astonishing. Quagga mussels are a food source for other fish examples Sturgeon, whitefish, perch, gobies, freshwater drum. They are not a great food source but they are used. The Feds are essentially running the show, as Alewife population is low Lake Trout are eating enough other forage that is some areas of the lake they are natural reproducing. Annually around 3 mil Lakers are stocked per year, and then add wild fish in on top of that. They are a top predator. Lakers probably eat the most amount of Alewife Biomass per season, this information could be gathered from the fish stomach data the Biologist collect all summer long at the Tournaments. The Feds have no intention of slowing down Laker plantings. They have one goal to return the lake to a more natural state, and reestablish an all natural reproducing Lake Trout population. To do this the Alewife have to be gone. Thus the DNR is forced to back off Chinook stocking or else risk driving the entire system into a collapse. Unless the DNR can negotiate with the Feds and get the number of Lake Trout reduced it is only a matter of time till there are so many Lake trout that they consume more biomass of forage then is being produced, and thus crash the lake despite the DNRs best efforts to keep the system a float.


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## Sparky23 (Aug 15, 2007)

Not all true. Dont believe the state when they are acting like it is all the feds with the lake trout, Why would the state lower the lake trout limit and make it a slot limit...hence making it harder to keep lakers that they supposedly dont want? They have now admitted that they never were tryin to bring back huron but instead planting over 500.000 kings a year to esentialy kill every alewive left so that it will be only trout and other natural species. The lakers are 95% PERCENT EATING ALES. the supposed experts have no idea and are either clueless or lying through there teeth, which neither would surprise me at this point, so they may just be trying to eliminate ales in lake michigan as well. Anyone that cleans many lakers knows that almost the only time there is gobies in them is early spring, and cooler months, otherthan that news flash the 10000s of lakers cought over 200ft of water or even 100ft. for that matter that are half way down are not targeting gobies, the 10000s that are caught bouncing bottom, well gobies live in rocks...the lakers we catch on bottom like huge sand flats with slow tapering drop...no gobies. hmmm


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## kingfisher2 (Mar 22, 2001)

Sorry, but I have to chime in here. If memory serves me correctly, Kings were introduced to Lake Michigan to help control the alewive population. As a child growing up with the most southern part of Lake Michigan in my back yard, you couldn't walk down the beach without stepping on a dead Ale. As the years progressed, this problem was taken care of by the plants of salmon. We also use to get tons of smelt...not anymore....and now.....look at the lake perch population. 

Oh, love the comic section of the Allegon....CO thrown over the wall, jumping in another guys boat, and the shot gun story....lmao gotta love salmon season.
Marc


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## Westsidesfury (Jan 21, 2015)

When did they say they didnt want them just curious never heard that before. Lakers dont have alewives in the in lands but they survive fairly well? In just my opinion Chinooks are a little overrated anyway and letting nature run its course in their survival in lk Michigan is fine. They could be using money elsewhere then stocking all these kings that have such short life spans in the first place. There is a big market for these kings in Michigan yes but its not the only big market. There are a bunch of other species that are prolific in this great state for fishing and consuming opportunities. The numbers are down with alewives so lowering stockings for kings keep the balance for now. At least they arent giving up on the kings yet.


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## jd_speed (Jul 22, 2014)




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