# What Is the Purpose of the Sixth Street Dam?



## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

quix20 said:


> whit i for one wouldnt admit it was my sister who was hitting the home runs :lol: sorry had to get a shot in, i know my turn is coming now
> 
> this thread is great. i love the discussion and the pics.


Q,
That's okay! My sis was four years older than me and a real tomboy. She could hit with the best of the guys back then. I was 8-10 at the time and she was in her pre and early teens. Of coure, back then there were no sports for girls. In today's high school world she would have been an athlete. She passed away in '95 and I do miss her.

By the way, she could also bass fish with the best of 'em. I have a short story called, "My Sister and Bear Lake Smallies".


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## GVSUKUSH (Mar 9, 2004)

I got this book for christmas and couldn't put it down. Alot of Grand Rapids history and tons of good pictures, alot of the river as well. Whit, did they have horse drawn carriages on the west side back in the forties? :lol: 

Heart and Soul: History of Grand Rapids


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## Hollandpiper (Oct 21, 2002)

Whit1,

Thank you for the personal perspective of GR & the dam's history. My mother-in-law (~82) & her mother (born in 1904 - deceased), have shared a lot about GR in the early days. It is great to get history first hand.

HP


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

GVSUKUSH said:


> Whit, did they have horse drawn carriages on the west side back in the forties? :lol:
> Heart and Soul: History of Grand Rapids


 
Kush,
I shall take care of the revenge for that remark on Saturday!!!!!:lol: 

Actually I do have memories of horses doing work. When I was a lad of less than ten years old, probably about 5-7, I do remember the Sealtest Milk Wagon going around on the West Side delivering milk to households. The wagon was drawn by a single horse. The horse, being a horse, left "road apples" in the wake of its passing.


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## GVSUKUSH (Mar 9, 2004)

Whit1 said:


> Actually I do have memories of horses doing work. When I was a lad of less than ten years old, probably about 5-7, I do remember the Sealtest Milk Wagon going around on the West Side delivering milk to households. The wagon was drawn by a single horse. The horse, being a horse, left "road apples" in the wake of its passing.


My house was built in 1930 and there is a small "Milk Door" just outside of the kitchen, pretty neat stuff. Next you're gonna tell me that you used to sled down the hill at Richmond Park on handmade birch bark sleds! :lol: 

Holland Piper, you're MIL would enjoy that book that I posted the link for. Very interesting stuff.


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

GVSUKUSH said:


> Next you're gonna tell me that you used to sled down the hill at Richmond Park on handmade birch bark sleds! :lol:


Kush,
Yes, I did sled down Richmond Park hill, skated on the pond in the winter (great place to pick up chicks!!!), and swam at the pool in the summer (another great chick place) and guarded there in the summer of '63 (the chicks were mainly teenyboppers)

By the way, it was a Champion sled and it was NOT made of birch bark!!!!!!:lol:


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## WILDCATWICK (Mar 11, 2002)

So what would happen if the river was restored to it's natural condition? Is that even possible?


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## SR-Mechead (Jan 25, 2004)

Whit you sure must be old to remember all of that. :lol:


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

Concerning restoring the river to its natural condition I doubt that would be wise. Over the years sediments of heavy metals have accumulated above the dam. Removing the structure would wash these metals downstream along with other gunk.

However, dams being dams they do deteriorate as shown by the slow disintigration of the two concrete abutments that were in the center of the dam. They are about gone now, at least one of them is. The day may come when the dam will be removed, such is the life of any dam.

In low summer water we would slide down the face of the dam on our bellies. The boils at the foot of the dam were very mild in really low water. That was a real thrill the first 100 times you did it. 

Was the water safe for swimming back then? I doubt it, but look how I turned out.......:lol: :yikes:


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## Bookmaker (Oct 3, 2003)

What dam ? It`s gone.


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## bombcast (Sep 16, 2003)

great thread!!


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## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

This thread brings back a lot of memories. Of course being from the east side, we didnt get the floods the west side got, but we certainly share a lot of common memories. We did a lot of fishing at 6th street. As kids we made substantial sums of money selling carp, suckers and catfish to people who knew a lot more about the value of fish than we did. lol I used to get a dollar a lb. on the hoof for snapping turtles at the Pantland Hotel and still remember I got $39.00 for one turtle, a small fortune to a kid that got a twenty five cents a week allowance at the time,

Our great sliding hill was at Highland Park at the east end of Flat street. At that time we could hunt pheasants at the city limits just across Fuller St. and there were a ton of trout streams close enough to ride a bike to. I fished a couple of them in recent years, and they still hold trout. In summer I worked as a guide the Childsdale riding stable in the 50's a couple of hundred yards north of the paper mill. 

I would fish the river most mornings before we rounded up the horses. I caught many nice browns there, but havent fished there since they took the dam out. Im happy to say the the Rouge and the Grand are much cleaner now and the fishing is better too. The dam at Sixth Street makes a great fishing hole and reminds me of much of my misspent youth. Thanks Whit.


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## SR-Mechead (Jan 25, 2004)

The memories will last forever. What people have to know is the Grand is one of the best bass fishing rivers around. I use to have a lot of fun picking up small mouths by riverside park. Then by North Park bridge it was one of the best silver cat fishing around. Thats where the boys learned how to fish. After work load um up and go fishing. Damn the good old days. Now the world is moving so fast you can't even stop and smell the roses. Well not at least for the next 3 months. :lol:


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## lowavenger96 (Dec 8, 2004)

Great thread on the history of GR. I had to show the wife she grew up in Rockford .


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

We would do the same thing selling carp, suckers, catfish, etc. to guys who would come down to the river. We'd start out at a $1 per fish and then the bargaining would go on. It was a real hoot bantering back and forth until the price came down to 25 cents/per for the fish, unless we had a really big carp of 20+ lbs. then the price jumped up.

Ray is correct about the great pheasant hunting right next to the city. Now those places are all subdivisions. One of our favorites was on the East Side (yes, we did invade the East Side!!!....:lol: ) was on Plymouth Ave. between Leanard and Michigan. We took a lot of birds out of there and I have "fond" memories of getting sprayed by a skunk on one hunt....:yikes:

I'm trying to find some photos of the area where the fish ladder now stands. It was a very interesting stretch of canal and river back then, looking not at all like it does now.


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## bigsid (Jan 13, 2003)

This is an excellent thread!! I'm going to pick up a copy of the book that Steve mentioned. I've lived my entire life in GR and have always been interested in its history. Now for a couple questions/comments:

Whit...Is the water inlet by the fire dept. launch on the west side originally part of the canal you mentioned? Also, my Mom grew up on Straight st. in the '50's and has told me about farmers who would peddle their fruits and veggies from horse-drawn carriages.

Phlyphisher...My Dad has an original copy of the book those pics came from. Very interesting!!

Splitshot...Where from the east side are you from? Whit mentioned Plymouth st. between Leonard and Michigan, I live 5 minutes from there.

I've always said that I was born way too late. I think I would've liked GR a lot better then than I do now!

Sid


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

bigsid said:


> Whit...Is the water inlet by the fire dept. launch on the west side originally part of the canal you mentioned? Also, my Mom grew up on Straight st. in the '50's and has told me about farmers who would peddle their fruits and veggies from horse-drawn carriages.


There is nothing visible of the West Side Power Canal left. The area where the power canal left the river is to the west (left as you're standing looking at it) of the present day fish ladder and has been entirely filled in.

Is there still a RR birdge between Pearl St. and Fulton? If so, the canal re-entered the river just north of the RR bridge. That's where the flour mill was. There was a tall concrete spillway which was only used during high water to remove excess flow.

Concerning the horse drawn veggie wagon, it really wasn't a carriage, I also remember that. I believe it was green and had two sides of shelves/pockets with side doors that were raised. There was only one of those that I recall.

There was a farmer's market at the NE corner of Front St. and Leonard St.

I also remember ice men who delivered ice for those who still had an icebox rather than an electric refridgerator. He would chip off chunks of ice for us to chew on during hot summer days.

Popsicle boys, pushing or pedeling their white coolers along, ringing their bells to draw kids (customers) was another memory of those years. You could hear those bells ringing from far down the street and kids would come running.


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## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

Sid,

I lived on Diamond Street about half way between Michigan and Leonard. We used to hunt pheasants east of Fuller St. south of Leonard to about Carrier Creek. Although there were houses along Leonard east of Fuller if you stayed away from them, you could hunt all the way to the East Beltline. My, how things have changed.

In our neighborhood we also had a horse drawn milk wagon and a horse drawn ice wagon. I think they used to cut ice in Reeds lake but its hard to remember lol. I got in trouble once for selling a few of my sisters dresses to the rag man who would buy old clothing from people. His wagon was horse drawn too.

Grand Rapids was indeed different than it is today and once in a while I drive through the old neighborhood just for the feeling of what used to be. After the WWII, my dad started a small grocery store but according to my mom kept giving the store away. We had a lot of older polish people in the neighborhood and one would come in and ask about the price of a roast and my dad would ask; How much do you have? which would always turn out to be the price of the meat.

He wasnt a very good businessman, but he was a great man. I was out hitchhiking at about age nine, and my mom didnt mind. Could you believe that today? I think not. It was easy to get rides especially when I had my wicker creel and fishing pole in hand. I loved bluegill and trout fishing and for gills often fished the lakes off Michigan near the East Beltline. Lots of times we would jump from the foot bridge at Highland Park onto the slow freight train and jump off at the Beltline. 

I know my mom wouldnt have liked that, but I got the idea from my dad who did it often when he was a kid. My dad was the best fisherman with a can pole I ever knew except for my mom lol. I think you learned faster back then because it was the only way to satisfy that aching feeling in your stomach. Anyway I think I got my good luck from her too.

At one time on Reeds lake not only was there an amusement park, but a place where you could rent a row boat for about a buck a day. There must have been 60 row boats there. Back then if you had a buck you had more money than all the kids in the neighborhood put together. For that reason we would be there at daybreak and had the boat back before they opened at 10:00 AM. Sometimes if the fishing was good, we would row to the channel between Reeds and Fisk lake and stash the boat there before heading home. They always found their boats and we never damaged them.

When I would get home I would clean the fish in the back yard and my mom would tell me where to deliver the ones we wouldnt be eating for dinner. A lot of them were to the same old people that my dad had sold meat to at below cost. Thats the way charity worked back then. They were your neighbors and you helped take care of them. Of course I had no idea back then these people were so poor, cause my mom didnt want to put that kind of pressure on me but she did explained it to me when I was old enough to understand.

I dont think there are many neighborhoods like that any more. Sometime after I got home from the army and started college, the world started shifting. No longer did people stay in the same neighborhood as their parents and grandparents did, but merged into a new world of opportunity. It happened so slowly that it is difficult to mark the year that it happened, perhaps even the decade.

In any event, this may give some of you incite into why Im not overly impressed when someone preaches to me the value of returning the fish I catch. I still keep my mom stocked with fish, I caught her a batch of bluegills just last weekend. At 87 she is still going strong. Just passed her driving test so she is good to go for the next two years ha ha ha and I also provide her more fish than she needs, so she can provide some to her elderly friends who appreciate the gift much more than some Orvis dude who wont have a clue about the history of the fish that he just caught. In fact if any of them read this, maybe they can use it to justify the day they got skunked.

Darn you Whit! See what you started?


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## bigsid (Jan 13, 2003)

That's a great story Splitshot! I couldn't imagine pheasant hunting anywhere near here and Fisk and Middleboro (E. Beltline & Fulton) Lakes are both very upscale and _very_ private. However, a couple years back I did see a couple young guys about 8 yrs or so walking down Fulton st. in that area and one of them had a bluegill about the size of a dinner plate on his stringer! So apparently there's still some of that spirit floating around!

Thanks for sharing.....Sid


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## phlyphisher (Aug 15, 2001)

My dad always talked about pheasant hunting somewhere in back of John Ball Park when he was growing up in the 50s/early 60s. He still talks about the decent number of birds back then. Of course, that's when there were still farms back there.

Here's something for you old timers (hehehe) -- how many of you vacationed in the summer in northern Lake County, like around Sand/Sauble/Loon/Big Bass Lakes? It seems like that was kind of the spot for GR people back in the day.

By the way Whit, my dad can remember the ice man bringing ice for the iceboxes too.


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## GVSUKUSH (Mar 9, 2004)

Do I smell "Summer Sixth Street Outing #2"?

This years could be bigger and better with our "Elders" showing the younger guys the ropes :lol: 
Last years outing

As I live 5 minutes from "The street", I'd host the BBQ afterwards


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

Tiger's Bait Shop, on Walker! Now there's another character place. It was a couple of blocks from our house on Valley, Ave., close to our hangout at Walker St. Pharmacy. The building was the Triangle Bar until the bar owner built a new structure next store. That's when Tiger moved in and started the bait shop. 

Tiger was indeed a character and did reasonably well until he ran into some problems with the DNR over license monies.

There were a lot of Wysocki boys back then, mainly West Siders, but there was also an East Side contingent.

That other unwed mom's home was on the corner of E. Fulton and Fuller. What was the name? It's right on the tip of my tongue.......errrr!...fingers.

Drive around sometime to the old haunts in GR? You bet! Since I don't drink at all anymore and you don't drink much Ray, we won't need a designated driver.....:lol:. That might take us a week or so as there are so many spots ranging from Green Lake to the south to Fisk Knob to the north, Stearn's Bayou near Grand Haven (Grand Haven is a whole other story, with summer attractions other than perch fishing off the piers). We'd also have to head east towards Lowell, visiting Egypt Valley Cr. and Honey Cr. on the way.

You know, between Ray and SrMechHead (Bob) and I it's a wonder we didn't run into each other from time to time. Actually we probably did, but at that time kept our secrets close to our vest.

Bob, did you ever know a girl who frequented Richmond Pool named Grace Dooper? She may have gone to Union High.

Ken, thanks for the photo. Where'd you get it?

Steve/Kush, I think a summer outing fishing below the dam would be great. We've talked about it in the past. Get the guys together when the water is low and the rocks are showing. Fish for carp, bass, cats, 'eyes. shredded wheat doughballs and/or canned corn for the carp and minnows for everything else, with some crab/crayfish netting tossed in for good measure.


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## GVSUKUSH (Mar 9, 2004)

Milt,

I'd have beer, brats, dogs and burgers after the outing at my place and maybe, just maybe, you could go check out the chicks at the Richmond park pool :lol:


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## fishing addict (Mar 15, 2003)

face to face into a 50# flathead!! :yikes:
Sid that 50# flathead is not out of the question. My dad had a picture of the one he got and it weighted 56lbs.[/QUOTE said:


> In 1988,I was up here recuperating after I broke my back in Florida.In November,I went Steelhead fishing with a friend of my brother who had a float boat and ran a guide service.We put in at Lyons,and floated to Ionia.At one point we thought we snagged a log.He started the motor and went back to try to retrieve the setup.When we got to it,it started going up stream.Logs don't float upstream,so we followed a ways as I tried to pull it off the bottom.Finally I tightened the drag and pulled till the 17lb line broke,never lifting it off the bottom,or seeing for sure what it was.
> Phil,assumed it was a large Flathead that had swallowed the spawnbag.


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

Steve,
Let's keep that in mind for this summer.


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## SR-Mechead (Jan 25, 2004)

Whit. I use to work at Walker grocery store next to Walker street Pharmacy for big Ben. Great place to work. I was 16 at the time. 
The girl at Richmond Park does not ring a bell.
I also use to hang around a few guys from the Polish Falcons. Now that was trouble. Hey how about the golf course at John ball park. .25 and play 9 holes.


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

Bob,
I didn't start playing golf until after high school, but I do rmember the golf at JBP. We played at Indian Trails a lot in the summer of '62. A good buddy of mine worked there in the pro shop (such as it was) and the driving range across Kalamazoo Ave.

Let's see on that block there was Walker St. Pharmacy (Tony), Walker St. Grocery, now a parking lot for the drug store, and Johnny's Standard...a gas station.

Given all the ways in which our paths crossed back then we must have seen each other sometime. Little did we know back then!!!!!!

By the way, there's another outing adventure.....night fishing for big cats in the Grand River!!!!! Having one of those huge cats on at night, not being able to do anything with it in the dark and not seeing it, has to be one of the more "intense" if not spooky feelings you could experience. I know it was for me.

The movie "Jaws" reminds me of the take of a large catfish when the three guys are out on the boat together for the first day and the camera goes to the reel and suddenly, slowly, a single "click" is heard, with a tiny rotation of the spool showing that something was there. The "twitch-twitch" of the rod tip added to the aura of mysterious specter. 

Something lurked below in the dark shadows of the moving river and was interested in the large sucker minnow used as bait. The nighthawks, in their shrill tones, swooping and diving in search of insects, created a high pitched symphony, barely noticeable to the ear, as every fiber in your body became tuned to the subtle take of the bait by a large catfish before it slowly moved off, seemingly at a glacial pace, with minnow in his gaping maw of a mouth...........


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## SR-Mechead (Jan 25, 2004)

Whit
Getting the big cats at night is how we use to get them. We would go out at about 10:00 and stay all night. The old steel 5 foot poles with a sucker or chicken liver on it. We would get a lot of silver cats which were very good eating. I wonder how many people still do that. I remember we would catch Bass or small catfish keep them alive and put them in Richmond pond.


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## GVSUKUSH (Mar 9, 2004)

SR-Mechead said:


> Whit
> Getting the big cats at night is how we use to get them. We would go out at about 10:00 and stay all night. The old steel 5 foot poles with a sucker or chicken liver on it. We would get a lot of silver cats which were very good eating. I wonder how many people still do that. I remember we would catch Bass or small catfish keep them alive and put them in Richmond pond.


The "Wall" at sixth street is crowded every warm night, all summer long with guys going for cats. Ask Thousandcasts, he was out there a few times this past summer and had a ball. I'm gonna try getting them at night in the boils this year, should be fun.


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## bigsid (Jan 13, 2003)

That's a great pic Ken. I like the looks of it better then! I remember seeing the picture in the GR Press of when they dropped the old Wealthy St. trestle into the river. Had to have been the mid '70s.


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## severus (Feb 8, 2000)

Whit1 said:


> Ken, thanks for the photo. Where'd you get it?


At the public library in downtown GR.


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

The GR Public Museum didn't have any photos of the canals and/or sucker netting. They sent me to the library. Did you get down to it or find the photo online?


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## severus (Feb 8, 2000)

I got it there while researching an article about a year ago; go to the third floor of the main library downtown and tell them what you're looking for and they will likely pull boxes of old photos on your subject. If you wish to have copies they will do it for you for a fee. I purchased a bunch of them and they mailed them to me about a week later. I don't believe they have any photos stored digitally, which is too bad because it would save time.

However, they have some very interesting old photos of West Michigan, Milt. You could spend an entire afternoon there.


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## k8vol (Aug 11, 2003)

went to Union Hi . the Wysocki,s I know worked for the C&O r+r and they are nice people. As a kid sold Tigers Baits a doller a 100. also had fun fishing pigons at the feed mill across the street (things to do wen your a kid with a fishing poll) spring time we would fish out the zefher gas station kites and fly them on fishing poles also reels made it fun to let out line and bring it in .


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

K8,
Yup! Those are the Wysocki's I knew as well. Where did you live? 908 Valley from '57-'66 until I got married.


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## cireofmi (Feb 13, 2001)

Recommend read for history buffs.

"Memorials of the Grand River Valley" by Franklin Everett

This isn't just about 6th Street Dam or Grand Rapids, but the Grand River Valley. I am guessing most area libraries have a copy, but I know the GRCC library has one.


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## k8vol (Aug 11, 2003)

Valley ave at 246 sw then when I was 2 we moved to south of leonard out by the Elks club . now live right next door to my mom AKA homestead.


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## severus (Feb 8, 2000)

k8vol said:


> spring time we would fish out the zefher gas station kites and fly them on fishing poles also reels made it fun to let out line and bring it in .


Wow, I remember those kites! I think they were free with a fill-up, and they would probably even pump the gas for you. Remember the Jolly Green Giant kites? They were so big I recall wondering if a good stiff wind would carry me away. I miss those gas station freebies, and gas wars too  .


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

Via email I contacted the Grand Rapids Public Library asking for any photos they may have of the West Side Canal. I received a phone call from a librarian and she told me they had several photos and would send me photocopies of some of them. I've included a few below along with a bit of history of the canal. Keep in mind that this is different from the histories above which refer to the East Side Power Canal.

Please excuse the quality of the photos. I'm going to visit the library the next time we're in GR and go through what they have and get some decent copies.

Some of the photos show the canal drained. I think I mentioned they did this. From the looks of the autos in some of the other photos these seem to have been taken in the mid-50s.

I still don't have any photos of the canal in the area of the present day fish ladder. Those would really knock your socks off at the contrast between yesterday and today.

*West Side Power Canal History*
Between 1856 and 1857 Wm T. Powers built the West Side Power Canal. It ran just west of the river. Between the canal and the river there was an earthen dike on which a fringe of trees and other brush had subsequently established itself. This dike separated the canal from the river.

The canal originated just beyond the dam at Fourth St. (today's Sixth St. Dam) and extended 3,250 feet south, where it returned to the river about halfway between Pearl St. and the present day Penn. Central RR Bridge through a sluice equipped with a flood gate. It passed beneath a short bridge at both Bridge St. and Pearl St. Just south of each of these bridges it passed beneath a covered bridge or runway connecting the Voight (Star) Mill buildings. At Bridge St. and those of the Voight (Crescent) Mill at Pearl St. (_the covered bridge south of Bridge St., as described above, is pictured below)_. There was also a private bridge over the canal a short distance below (south) the covered passageway just south of Pearl St.


*This view of the temporarily drained canal was taken sometime between 1955-1958. It looks north from Bridge St. towards the area where the present day (2005) fish ladder now sits. The fish ladder would be at the far end of the canal. The building on the left was a part of Sullivan's Riverview Furniture owned by Bob Sullivan of GR baseball fame. The trees on the right grew on the earthen dike that was between the river and the canal.*

*Keep in mind that the river and canal were at the same level in the far distance (towards present day Sixth St. Dam). At the point the photo was taken (from Bridge St.) the river was at least 15 ft. below the level of the canal. This shows how much the river drops between Sixth St. Dam and Bridge St.*

*In the far distance you can barely make out the wooden, trestle-like bridge that crossed the canal immediately below where it left the river at the dam. The dark, vertical objects (you can make out 7-8 of them) were the pilings/sluice gates for the canal. Of course they were topped by a wooden walkway. This area, where the present day entry to the fish ladder is, was enclosed with a tall chain link fence and locked gate. Public access was thus denied. However, over the years the fence had been "opened" in an out of the way spot and we, and others, regularly went through. Only now am I thinking it odd that, despite the fence and "No Tresspassing" signs, no one ever told us to leave.*











*The photo below was taken from Bridge St. and looks south down the canal. The covered walkway as described above is shown.*












*The photo below was taken from the top of the spillway where the West Side Power Canal dumped back into the river below. As you can see, it was quite a fall. Keep in mind that at the head of the canal at the present day fish ladder, the river and the canal were at the same level. In the far right background you can barely make out the Pennsylvania RR. Bridge to the far right in the photo. Is this bridge still standing?*

*The tall building in the background is Wurzburg's, you can read the name if you look closely, which was a multi-story department store on Upper Monroe Ave. I'm ot sure what the tallest building in the background is.*


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## GVSUKUSH (Mar 9, 2004)

Hey Milt, those are great pics! I believe that bridge is still standing (in the last pic) and is now a footbridge I believe???

So that canal was in the relative location that present day Scribner street is, or there abouts?


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

Steve,
Yes, I think the RR bridge is now a footbridge.

No, Scribner St. was two streets west of the canal.

When you park to walk to the fish ladder today you drive in on Front St.. Scribner St. is still there to the west, running alongside the US131 E-Way.

The canal left the Grand R. at Sixth St. Dam...it used to be called Fourth St. Dam by the way...right where the fish ladder now sits and went straight south. Of course, that's all filled in, planted, and buildings are in place on Bridge St.

The second photo, looking south from Bridge St. w/ the covered walkway is looking towards what is now the Gerald R. Ford Museum. After the canal was filled and while the expressways were being built the building to the left in that photo was remodeled by Bob Sullivan (Sullivan's Riverview Furniture) into a rather hot night spot called The Shamrock Lounge. Wine, women, bands, dancing, etc! It was the place to be on a Saturday night in GR back in the early '60s. Oh, the stories I could tell..........:lol:


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

Good stuff, Whit. I get a lot of enjoyment looking at older photographs of how my immediate world "used to be"...especially the places I fish. Thanks a bunch for your time and efforts in digging those up--it's definitley appreciated! I wonder if anyone has any pics of the Muskegon River and the dam that used to be in Newaygo (right where M-37 crosses) I'd be interested in seeing what that section of river used to look like.


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

Ray,
I just really screwed up! I was going to quote your post, but hit Edit instead and never did notice the error. Your post has been deleted. Can you repost it? Sorry buddy!

I was looking at the photo and thought that was the McKay Tower also. But then that would have been the old Wurzburg's on Lower Monroe NE of the old Pantland Hotel. Thinking of the view from the old canal spillway, you'd see the Pantland Hotel in between the camera position and Wurzburg's. Pearl St. would be to the left, out of sight, in the photo. Maybe that's not the Wurzburg building but rather a Wurzburg sign on another building?

We'll WILL have to get together in GR sometime and visit old haunts, inlcuding that area of the camera view to see what we can see today.

Yup! The old days in the Shamrock were, uhhh! interesting.

Did you recognize the view from Bridge St. to the north? That was my neighborhood until I was 13yrs. old. Back then that part of Bridge St. wsa considered "skid row". And for you silly guys who might be thinking......it wasn't considered "skid row" because I lived nearby!!!!........:lol:


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## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

Milt,

Tell me again where the last picture was taken from. Actually I don't think that is Wurzburgs' and if it is, that can't be the Mckay tower as it is located on the other side of the street. I think the sign is a billboard advertising Werzburg.

Anyway I said when I got home from the army I enrolled in G.R. Junior College and me and a couple of buddies rented the main floor of the Buth Estate on Fountain Street. We had 17 ways to exit our apartment. It was so big we could have two parties with 100 people each at the same time and everyone would have a place to sit.

My good buddy Joe Gogoski lived upstairs in the old ballroom and was a bartender at the Shamrock. Life was good. lol

His Family owned the bakery on Stocking just north of Bridge St. By the way my sister owned a bar on west Leonard called Froggy's.


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

Ray,
The last photo was taken at the far south end of the West Side Canal, just north of the Pennsylvania RR Bridge. That sure looks like the McKay Tower. I think you're right, the Wurzurg's sign is on a building other than Wurzburg's.

I think the bakery you're talking about was on the corner of Stocking and 4th St., kiddie corner (do they use that term anymore?) from the Stocking Theater, another old hangout of mine as a youth.

I remember Froggy's but was never in there.


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## k8vol (Aug 11, 2003)

the bridge is blue and is lighted at night can see it good from fulton looking up stream . do any of you remeber the train fire in down town in the 70's winter time a propane car burn about where the area is now the r&r tracks used this bridge to get there. steve k8vol


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## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

The more I look at that picture the more I think it isn't the Mckay Tower either. I don't believe it is that close to the river. It should be on our list to check out.


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

Ray,
We may have to ask the city/contractors to move a couple of buildings to get the same view. Hmm! Now we've got each other going and will have to take that ride.

When we visit GR we usually take my mom for a ride. Even at 86 she remembers all the old places and can tell stories about most of them. Hell, I can't remember what I had for supper last night......:lol:


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## GVSUKUSH (Mar 9, 2004)

Whit and others, I found an artist from Grand Rapids this year that has some awesome fishing paintings of downtown. 

www.deyoungfineart.com


















This is the one that I have framed in the basement boys room









He has some nice photographs of the area as well, this from the east side-


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## bigsid (Jan 13, 2003)

Hey guys,

If I'm not mistaken, that tall bldg. is the Michigan National Bank building. Obviously before they stuck the weather ball on top of it. As far as the bldg. with the Wurzburgs sign on it goes, I remember a building that was torn down on Fulton St. sometime in the late '70s or so. It was one block west of Herps (at the time) and on the north side of the street. There's an Ellis parking lot there now, between Louis and Ionia I believe. That _could_ be it, I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure about the MNB bldg.

Sid


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## bigsid (Jan 13, 2003)

Whit1 said:


> I remember Froggy's but was never in there.


Uh huh, yeah, OK, right........................

Whit, I'm sure I saw you staggering out to your Harley, or was it an Indian, on a few warm Saturday nights about 20 yrs ago or so! :lol: :lol:  

J/K, that used to be the big biker hangout back in the mid '80s or so.


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

I'm trying to picture the Michigan National Bank Building!!!!!

Fulton St. would be too far to the south to give a view of Wurzburg's.

Steve/Kush.......thanks for sharing the paintings. They're great!!


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## bigsid (Jan 13, 2003)

I thought Wurzbergs became Herpolsheimers which was on the corner of Fulton and Division.  Same building, no?


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

Wurzburg's and Herp's were two different department stores in competition downtown.

The first Wurzburg's building that I remember was on Lower Monroe Ave., on the east side north of Fountain. Later they moved to Upper Monroe near Ottawa Ave.....I'm not sure of those streets any more.

Herpelsheimer's or Herp's was on the corner of Division and Monroe.

Both stores were excellent, multi-story buildings with elevators with real elevator operators and escalators. They were akin to Hudson's today.


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## bigsid (Jan 13, 2003)

I see, thanks Whit!

My dentist used to have her office in the Lorainne (sp?) building which is a 4 or 5 story building on Fulton st. near Veterans Park and they still have an old fashioned elevator manually operated. Pretty cool!

Step down!...Sid


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## k8vol (Aug 11, 2003)

this is getting to be a long post! the lorainne building was owned by a man that worked for my dad as a sales rep. and the side walk all fell in to the under ground storage under in the 80s man did that cost big money to fix . just to have fulton reworked after he got it fixed for new steam line made him sick of the money blowed to see it all pull up again.


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