# Fruit tree pruning



## Greenbush future (Sep 8, 2005)

Would you fruit tree experts agree that now is the time to trim all my fruit tree's? These tree's are 1-4 years old and relatively young. I do have lots of sucker branches and just want to make sure I have the trimming part down well. I did some good fall fertilizing, but the trimming part I need guidance on. I have 6 apple, 2 peach, 2 cherry. Will add three pears trees too.

Any guidance is always appreciated

Greenbush


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## U D (Aug 1, 2012)

Get er done. It's gettin late.


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## tangleknot (Oct 8, 2001)

I work at an orchard and we prune all winter and also do some summer pruning. We are behind this year because there has been too much snow to get our guys out in the orchard and function with the ladders and certainly not the brownie. We just started this week. There is going to be a pruning demonstration at our orchard put on by MSU extension. I'll check and see if there is still open registration and the details.


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

Most experts do not recommend Fall fertilizing. They say it promote growth when they should be hardening off for the Winter.


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## Joel/AK (Jan 12, 2013)

I don't want to hijack the thread but what's a good fertilizer, herbicide, etc for apple trees?

We got a couple also and where they are located is a PIA and I think a chain saw would be great but the wife wants to keep them going.


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## 1mainiac (Nov 23, 2008)

Getting late for pruning but I know lots of guys are way behind so not surprised. Before you prune a young tree you need to decide what you want it to be as a adult tree. Some of this will be determined by root stock M111 is a very common old school root stock used on many nursery trees but not used much in current high production orchards. These root stock trees will reach 15 to 20ft and are often pruned either central leader or open center depending on fruit variety. If that is your root stock your 3 to 4 year old trees will be 1 to 2 in caliper and likely 4 to 6 ft tall depending on variety again. This size tree will not yet support a full crop so you must thin the fruit heavily. You will see many modern orchards that look like grave vines many of them are using m27 or similar root stock which keep the trees down to 6 to 8 ft tall but requires trellis type support. If you have not started training them you are late in the game and some options will be limited. Here is a decent link http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/ag29.html 

As for fertilizer we used tons of Urea but you need to do soil testing first. We also added calcium and other nutrients during the season but most years we used 1 lb of urea per in of trunk diameter spread around the base area of the tree but never in contact with the tree as a starter. Weed killer was mostly Paraquat and Simizine Often mixed with small amounts of diesel fuel and Dawn dish soap. The idea was bare ground under the trees for several reasons 1 all the fertilizer went to the tree not weeds under it. 2 no place for mice and voles to live next to the trees. 3 it was cheap and effective. Round Up can be used as well just do not it to contact the tree foliage it can mess the trees up or even kill them we never spray round up under trees but used a wick applicator to knock down stuff the Paraquat and Simizine did not kill well. 

Bird are your friend they eat most of the bugs you have to spend money on spray to prevent. Bats as well are great to have around. Owls and Hawks will end the small varmints from damaging your trees. Only drawback to the large birds is they will thin your small birds as well.


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## 1mainiac (Nov 23, 2008)

stickman1978 said:


> Most experts do not recommend Fall fertilizing. They say it promote growth when they should be hardening off for the Winter.


 Very true never fertilize after late July for us. Shock them heavy in spring then do your final fertilizer mix in June and thin and summer prune. The food reduction cause the tree to put all it's effort into the fruit not growing vegetation.


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## Joel/AK (Jan 12, 2013)

Good info, I appreciate it.

Next question if I can. What if these trees have never been maintained? They have about 6-7" trunks and look like something out of the movie "children of the corn"?

They produce a lot of apples but are small.

Where do you start?


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## Joel/AK (Jan 12, 2013)

Oh and what about bees? I swear just to get to the garage I need to carry an anti-aircraft gun. Anything we can do about that?


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## limige (Sep 2, 2005)

Mine have been long neglected. Ill have to try killing the grass under them. Im dropping nearby trees that are blocking sunlight and pulling nutrients.. 

Did some pruning but what do you do when a tree was never trained and the main trunk goes straight up with a split both going vertical? 
Lop them shorter year after year or what??

These are old trees. 30 yrs or better I'm guessing.


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## DIYsportsman (Dec 21, 2010)

limige said:


> Mine have been long neglected. Ill have to try killing the grass under them. Im dropping nearby trees that are blocking sunlight and pulling nutrients..
> 
> Did some pruning but what do you do when a tree was never trained and the main trunk goes straight up with a split both going vertical?
> Lop them shorter year after year or what??
> ...


chainsaw...
i would bet you get tons of apples right? but they are small too...

it needs to produce less and bigger apples, you do this by pruning..

what i generally do is on the younger trees, lop the center where i want and trim branches that go up or down, you want horizontal branches, and and open center generally...

o and bees are your friend, honey bees at least...


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## limige (Sep 2, 2005)

So its safe to lop the main trunk at a certain height and prune the rest??
Do I need to apply anything to help it heal?

I moved in a month ago. Cant say much for how they have been. Old owners said the front trees had plenty of fruit but the others didn't do much. Well they weren't getting light and were overgrown in areas


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## 1mainiac (Nov 23, 2008)

Joel/AK said:


> Good info, I appreciate it.
> 
> Next question if I can. What if these trees have never been maintained? They have about 6-7" trunks and look like something out of the movie "children of the corn"?
> 
> ...



First issue guessing the age of the trees. My guess in that area you have M111 rootstock and those trees would be pushing 20 years old. Without looking at the tree it is hard to say because many of us could look at it and see what we want it to be. You need to be careful of what wood you remove on a neglected tree the first 2 years you work on it. The first thing I would likely do is decide on my tree height but depending on where the branches are that may need adjustment. At this point if it is already a central leader tree you can't change it. Central leader is one primary trunk from ground to top with branches coming off it. Old school trees we used to pick limbs for what we call ladder mounts and they were cut about 12 ft up and slightly inside the canopy to give the pickers a place to lean the ladder against to harvest. The idea was to put 3 ladder mounts on the tree. Now we use mostly 3 legged ladders so mounts are less of a issue. No matter what you need to top the tree and clean out the suckers. Keep your cutting tools clean and anything you can't cut with lopping shears needs to be covered with wax to seal it. Next pay attention to how much wood you remove do not go over 15 to 20% of the trees main wood or you will likely kill it. The same applies to fruiting wood you can't take to much or you mess up the tree. So first year set the top height and clean up the suckers and get some sunlight inside the canopy. Prune it as soon as you can It will start coming to life very soon if it has been left a long time my suggestion would be to spray it with Dormant Oil as soon as your done pruning and maybe spray it again in early April. The tree is likely heavily infested with mites and other bugs so your gonna have to club them to death right away. You can't use the oil after it starts to bud. http://extension.missouri.edu/phelp...ure_News/Time_for_Dormant_Oil_Application.pdf That should help explain better. Once the tree is past bloom and setting fruit you will likely need to thin the fruit and perhaps prune a bit more esp cleaning up the fruit bearing limbs as part of thinning the crop. Get lots of the yellow sticky traps and find out what pests you have to battle for your fruit. good luck.

Oh learn to love the bees your lucky to have them.


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## DIYsportsman (Dec 21, 2010)

limige said:


> So its safe to lop the main trunk at a certain height and prune the rest??
> Do I need to apply anything to help it heal?
> 
> I moved in a month ago. Cant say much for how they have been. Old owners said the front trees had plenty of fruit but the others didn't do much. Well they weren't getting light and were overgrown in areas


luckily, they are not too hard to restore; generally you remove branches in the center and shoots that go up or down, try to thin out the main branches so it is not too crowded, you want to minimize the main branches to lowest necessary so everything gets a good amount of light...

this might help you, shows the process over a couple years
https://www.fedcoseeds.com/trees/renovating.htm
http://www.vegetablegardener.com/item/2634/how-to-prune-an-old-apple-tree


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## limige (Sep 2, 2005)

Some of them are pretty rough. I would think they were dead if not for the newer growth. One has a 4" hole straight threw the trunk. Ill try to snap some pics sometime. 
A few others the trunks look rotten but the upper tree looks good. Im guessing big bug issues?

I think I've dropped all the surrounding trees I'm going to for now. Need to do some more pruning on the actual apple trees before spring hits full blast.

What type of dormant oil or horticulture oil would you recommend? I see there's a few different varieties. 

It says to wait till just before the leaves open


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

You want the bees. Without them you are not going to have any apples.:lol:


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## 1mainiac (Nov 23, 2008)

limige said:


> Some of them are pretty rough. I would think they were dead if not for the newer growth. One has a 4" hole straight threw the trunk. Ill try to snap some pics sometime.
> A few others the trunks look rotten but the upper tree looks good. Im guessing big bug issues?
> 
> I think I've dropped all the surrounding trees I'm going to for now. Need to do some more pruning on the actual apple trees before spring hits full blast.
> ...


As for the oil I can't remember we bought it in 55 gal drums and often made specific mixes for different orchards. Once we had a solid control program the oil was less of a issue. We also changed to using liquid fertilizer in our spray program so that had us doing less of a ground dump in the spring and in June. Our post bud Mite program was Hydrogen Peroxide and Molasses mixed with dish soap and pesticides. Some of my mixes had high levels of Sulfur in them as well. All of these are pre fruit stage. The Peroxide was 30% so 15 times stronger than what you buy at the drug store. Most of the stuff I used you can't buy without a license. However much of it is found in over the counter sprays just at very low levels. 
So the result is much of the stuff you can buy is similar but at less than 5 to 10 % of the strength. Never spray a pesticide during bloom it will kill your bees so once the bloom starts you pretty much hold your breath for 15 days or so and wait it out. If you did good pre bloom once the bloom drops you can get back on a program and regain control. After June drop and final thinning you decide what your crop quality is and go from there. We had several bad years in a couple of orchards where we called them juice boxes in June and cut back on expenses to save money on them. You can't put thousands of dollars into a crop that will barely cover harvest expenses. So you allow for damage and only spray the major bug cycles.


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## tangleknot (Oct 8, 2001)

Joel/AK said:


> They produce a lot of apples but are small.


Are you doing any thinning? 



http://www.romeoobserver.com/Story.asp?page=what&storyid=13925

There is a mistake but from what I understand, it is from 9am-11:30. Check out the Westview Orchard's facebook page for info, as well. Check in at the cider barn porch. You can register that morning too. Bob will be going over younger trees, as well. Hope to see some of you there.


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## Greenbush future (Sep 8, 2005)

Sure appreciate all the great information, as it turns out ( like almost always) Youtube has some really good examples on how to do what many have shared here. Only mistake I made was fertilizing in fall, not too worried about that. I cut the center (OK trimmed) to allow for more horizontal branches, cut the suckers that were reaching for the sky with little fruiting abilities. I plan to keep mine shorter so I can manage and reach them for spraying, and picking. 
Last year was epic for peaches I planted 2 years ago, I was shocked at how many we received off just 2 tree's that young. But this year those tree's got a good trim, I've seen branches breaking on others tree's last year because of the great growing season we had. That happened with many fruit tree's last year.
Thanks again everyone.


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## DIYsportsman (Dec 21, 2010)

Greenbush future said:


> Sure appreciate all the great information, as it turns out ( like almost always) Youtube has some really good examples on how to do what many have shared here. Only mistake I made was fertilizing in fall, not too worried about that. I cut the center (OK trimmed) to allow for more horizontal branches, cut the suckers that were reaching for the sky with little fruiting abilities. I plan to keep mine shorter so I can manage and reach them for spraying, and picking.
> Last year was epic for peaches I planted 2 years ago, I was shocked at how many we received off just 2 tree's that young. But this year those tree's got a good trim, I've seen branches breaking on others tree's last year because of the great growing season we had. That happened with many fruit tree's last year.
> Thanks again everyone.


No problem! I take payment in canned peaches!!! 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Greenbush future (Sep 8, 2005)

DIYsportsman said:


> No problem! I take payment in canned peaches!!!
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


I actually did freeze a couple bags of fresh peaches, and pulled the last one out today. Hope this year is a banner year like last. Made cider last year too, we had more apples than I could use.


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## DIYsportsman (Dec 21, 2010)

Yep i still have bags of homemade apple pie filling in the freezer, we had 2 trees, the one Macintosh filled the whole bed of a pickup truck with apples and we left some at the top of the tree!

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## tangleknot (Oct 8, 2001)

Greenbush future said:


> I actually did freeze a couple bags of fresh peaches, and pulled the last one out today. Hope this year is a banner year like last. Made cider last year too, we had more apples than I could use.



Sadly, it won't be a banner year for peaches. The temps we had this winter of -13 and below can damage and kill buds. Pome fruit can take colder temps than stone fruit.


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