# The impact of bear guiding



## Bearboy (Feb 4, 2009)

I have read a ton of stuff on this. You can even watch it on television(dealing with problem bear). I guess it does not technically address a bait site. It does however say that bears return to to their orginal territory right away. I guess that would include bait sites. Here is my observation. If a bear is run with hounds it returns the next day to eat off the same bait it was started off of. The bear never wises up. The only exception to this is if the run is a very long race. This seldom happens. Then the bear returns the day after that. Often time sow bear lay claim to the bait site. They can be very territorial. During hound training season, this is very evident. Lots of hound hunters choose not run off of certain bait sites because they do not want to run that bear again, for lots of reasons. Lots of information is out on the net if you want to look. If you want to keep the blinders on(I am not saying you do) you can beleive whatever you want. Perception is a funny thing. If you don't understand dog hunting, its a great scapegoat for you not bagging a decent bear. Truth is bear are hungry in the fall, they risk current danger so they can survive the winter......that will never change...


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## uptracker (Jul 27, 2004)

hoyt001 said:


> It's absolutely ridiculous what a guided bear in michigan is going for now, with the size of the bears, you might as well go to canada!


I'm a little curious....

1. A guided bear hunt in MI is about $800-$1,000 on average. Bears range from 100-600 pounds. Gas is relatively cheap and you don't have to drive far.

2. Ontario: Hunt is $1,000-$3,500. Bear range from 100-600 pounds. Gas is expensive and you have to drive a good ways.

3. Manitoba/Saskatchewan/Alberta: Hunt is $2,000-$5,000. Average bear is 100-600 pounds. Gas is expensive and you have to drive a long ways.

I'll take #1....

I know you'll probably say Ontario has bigger bears, but that just is not true by any stretch.


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## Bearboy (Feb 4, 2009)

Guided hunts? Wow, I remember when I saw my first pile of deer bait, everyone laughed. Now its like a must have. If you can't use bait you have to grow clover, brassica or some other kind of deer candy. Now, bear hunts have become some sort of safari. Sometime, I just can't believe it. In the last thirty years hunting is starting to become shooting. We are supposed to "Hunt for an animal" that means look for it. I don't know who has "bigger" bears. I love to "hunt" I guess I won't starve if I don't shoot an animal. Learning "how to hunt" is more important than what you kill. Half of the fun is learning how. Not living in the right area to make it easy isn't any reason not to try. I have to travel over a hundred miles to hunt turkey on public land. I get one every three or four years, I am learning, but I am sure I am not very good. With the money I spent, I could have been a lot more successful by hiring a guide. Why? I have a hundred times the satisfaction with 10% the success. Just my opinion about being a sportsman and hunter. I still pass on a Jake.


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## uptracker (Jul 27, 2004)

Good for you Bearboy, but it's just not practical for some.

I'm going on two DIY deer hunts this fall on public land. I have to travel 15 hours to one local and 10 to the other. I don't use bait to deer hunt....so I don't have to keep a bait fresh, just go and hunt. BUT, since I'm not a big bear hunter, I don't invest as much time in it that I do for going and shooting a 150" deer...two differnt things in my mind. Think about what you're saying to a ton of first time bear hunters from the...say the Lansing area, that are getting a tag for the first time this year....or a group of hunters from the Detroit area that don't want to drive to Baraga every couple of days to bait.

To bait a site for bear 4 1/2-10 hours away 3-4 times a week for a month......c'mon......you know that's not possible. That's what most MI hunters would have to do. I live in the U.P., and the spot I'm hunting this year is 4 1/2 hours away from home....if I had a helicopter, I'd do it all myself, but I don't.

Like I previously stated, I've ran bear baits before. I ran three in 2003. My circuit was 120 miles round trip. I went 3-4 times a week. Think about how much gas that is, and then you need bait on top of it, then you burn all you free time, then....

Get off your high horse!


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

uptracker, you make a legimate point. So does bearboy. Hopefully, you will agree there needs to be some control on how much public land commercial operations can use in order to show consideration to other users. This includes dog hunters in the guiding business. A couple of them pounding the same area destroys quality hunting for others. If excessive commercializing was going on in your backyard you would likely understand the motivation aimed at regulating it. Obviously, the bear counciltation team recognized the ongoing problem.


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## Bearboy (Feb 4, 2009)

I live to far away to hunt Pronghorn and few other species, so I don't. If you can't invest the time....do something else!!!!! I live to far away to go to the Redwing games.....so I watch on TV or do something else......:sad:


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## thongg (Jul 10, 2007)

so charlie since we dont live in the UP we should not hunt if we cant drive up and do all the scouting and baiting for ourself well we are coming have 6 guys pulling tags will use a guide might even see you


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## hubbarj (Jan 30, 2007)

tthong, I hope that you are going with a guide who doesn't bait on CFA because it is going to be a problem if he does. You might want to check before you book your hunt. 

John


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## uptracker (Jul 27, 2004)

hubbarj said:


> tthong, I hope that you are going with a guide who doesn't bait on CFA because it is going to be a problem if he does. You might want to check before you book your hunt.
> 
> John


What does this have to do with the current topic?


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## hubbarj (Jan 30, 2007)

uptracker said:


> What does this have to do with the current topic?


 I thought this was a thread about bear guiding? Just trying to let the guy know that he should do some checking so his hunt doesn't ruined.


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## Bearboy (Feb 4, 2009)

John, You make an excellent point. One of the "impacts" of bear guiding in the Michigan, is that the Commercial bear baiters seem to think they don't have to follow the laws. If they did, there really wouldn't be this problem. Just because a service is offered doesn't make it legal or ethical. Illicit drugs provide a service for those who cannot cope with life in general. Prostitution provides a service for those who do not want take the time to find a compatible life mate. Hit men provide a service for those who cannot forgive. None of these are legal, but for some, this may be a service that they need. However the impact on others is very costly. The out of control commercial bear operations in Michigan also have an impact that harms the resource and sportsmen and women using public lands for hunting. 

I do think that a service could be provided by ethical guides and regulated by MDNR. It should be. Currently however, several of the guides are unethical providing services that do not comply with the rules and regulations we all have to follow. CFA land use rules are only part of it. Bait type (grain) is used by several commercial baiting operations. This is total disregard to the fact that diseases spread by food could potentially harm the whitetail deer population in the Upper Peninsula. Deception of clients are the specialty of several commercial baiters, not black bear. The money is good. 

The lack of law enforcement is in part due to the fact the MDNR is understaffed and under budjeted. Do you really think as sportsmen we should take advantage of this? While hunting in the Upper Peninsula during the past ten years, I was checked once. I could break all the laws and get away with it. I do not. I don't think that very many do. When it comes to money..........everything changes.


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