# Help with TC Greyhawk



## souliog (Jan 10, 2009)

I have a TC Greyhawk muzzleloader and I have a few questions. It uses a #11 percussion cap with 1-48" barrel twist. It currently shoots a .50 cal ball very well with 80 grains of black power. I'm looking to switch to a clean burning powder like 777 and a sabot for better knock down power. I tried shooting maxiballs and the barrel doesn't have enough twist to stabilize a heavy load. I can currently shoot 100 yds very well. I was hoping to get something capable of 150 yds.

1. Can anyone recommend a sabot load that works well for my setup?
2. What's the cleanest burning loose powder out there?
3. What is the advantage to a sabot vs. round ball?


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## redbug9 (Apr 11, 2007)

I use 777 in my TC Renegade, a 50 cal, 1-48", #11 side hammer precussion gun. 

I use a single spit patch between shots. It is a much cleaner load than Pyrodex or 777 in my Knight.

Conicals work well with that twist rate. My gun likes the 385 gr Hornady GP conicals over 80 gr of 777. I have peep and post sights so I try to keep the distance I shoot less than 75 yards. 

With better eyes or a scope I am sure this load is good to at least 100 yards. Much beyond that would require some hold over and I haven't spent that much time on the range.

To stretch it to a flatter 150 yards, I would look at some of the Precision Bullets conicals. They make some very aerodynamic bullets that should get you out there with a little flatter trajectory than I currently get.

I have heard of some people having sucess with sabots and the 1-48" twist but I haven't tried them yet.


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## souliog (Jan 10, 2009)

redbug,

I do have a scope on my gun and I am very accurate out to 100yds with a patch and ball. The problem is the black powder is very dirty and i need to clean the barrel between shots. I hope the 777 fixes this issue. I also need to be careful with the round ball because it is light and will not penetrate very well through bone. I basically go for an arrow type shot to the lungs. I have tried some maxi hunters that were 350 gr I believe. They just sprayed all over. This leads me towards trying the lightest sabot load i can find so the long twist rate barrel will be able to stabilize it. I was hoping for a more defiative combo for this gun. I guess i'll have to do some trial and error next spring and report back.


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## Pier Pressure (Dec 21, 2008)

I've tried black powder in the past but I soon realized the need to clean between shots and went back to Pyrodex. Since then I've switched to Triple7 and though I will spit patch and dry patch the barrel between shots while hunting I don't find it necessary unless I fire off a few shots. I've tried some of the other "cleaner" powders like Shockey's and Black Mag3 but I couldn't seem to find a load that my Knight liked. 


I know there are a lot of people on this forum that don't like Powerbelts but my buddies and I have had great success with the 295 grain hollow points. If they correctly fit the bore diameter of your barrel they should shoot well. The only way to know is to try 'em. I'd recommend trying them over a charge of 80 or 90 grains of Triple7 loose powder and go from there. 

Another good choice would be a Hornady XTP in 250 or 300 grains.

Good luck.


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## redbug9 (Apr 11, 2007)

The 777 shoots pretty cleanly. I have had problems the diameter of the cleaning jag that I use between shots. A smaller diameter jag has actually worked better. A barely wet spit patch also works better than a real wet one. Your mileage may vary.

If you want a real clean load you can try one of the MagSpark adaptors with a Federal 209A primer and BH209. According to HPMuzzleloading this is supposed to work. I have one of the adaptors but haven't made it to the range with it yet.

The reason I point out the better conicals is that the 1-48" twist is not typically a sabot shooter. Your gun may like them. I have saboted loads on my "try at the range list" this spring as well. The priority hasn't been that high because of the accuracy I'm getting with the big conicals. The best groups I've shot, under 1" at 50 yards, have been with 450 gr flat nose conicals (no longer available) from Precision Rifle.

I'm also thinking that the Renegade may be wearing a scope before to long.


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## PITBULL (May 23, 2003)

I dont think that sabots will shoot very well with a 1-48" twist. I would stick with the patched round ball for that gun. As far as 777 I would think that it would be harder to ignite with a #11 cap than black powder.


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## souliog (Jan 10, 2009)

pitbull,

I was going to use 777 power not the pellets. Is that what you were talking about?

The reason I want to go to a sabot is for penetration. Maybe my logic is unsound? Would a round ball go through a 300lb bucks front shoulder?

Hornady XTP, powerbelts, and all sabots under 250gr are on the list. A round ball weighs 175gr, so the closer to that I get the better. I think...


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## freshwater drum (Mar 17, 2007)

if you currently shoot round balls, it wont hurt to shoot powerbelts. in my opinion they are just a hopped up round ball. i have a greyhawk in .54cal. it shoots 348gr powerbelts really good with 777. it also shoots hornady great plains bullets really good too. i no longer hunt with it since the omega came along but i do shoot it on occasion.


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## souliog (Jan 10, 2009)

I didn't get to spend too much time at the range but I did get 245gr power belts to work with 80gr of blackpowder. Not as tight as a round ball but it will work. 2.5"-3" groups at 100 yds and 1" groups at 50 yards. Bore Cleaner and then a dry patch between shots.

I wanted to try some sabots but my brother stopped me. He said that you can only shoot sabots from inline guns. He mentioned that you can't clean the plastic sabot residue very well without acess via a breech plug. Will a sabot specific cleaner remedy this problem?

Sticking with the blackpowder for now. I have quite a bit to burn off plus I didn't know that it was a little more powerful than Pyrodex or T7.


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## Craig M (May 17, 2000)

I have .54 Greyhawk too. Ive tried a few sabot brands just for fun and I couldnt get enough accuracy out of them to persue working up a load (never tiried the powerbelts). Conicals grouped better then sabbots but the old patched round ball seemed to ticket for me. I have taken several deer with the old 54 and but nothing over a 50 yard shot as all shots have been 50 or under. Trip 7 burns cleaner then BP but I still have a supply of BP that Im still burning up and when Im out, Ill move to a cleaner powder.


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## souliog (Jan 10, 2009)

Craig,
What conical are you shooting? I tried maxi-balls and hunters with no success.


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## Craig M (May 17, 2000)

I tried both the maxi-balls and hunters, they grouped better then the sabots but the round ball was the best grouping for me so that's what I'll keep feeding it. The 1/48" twist just doesn't have enough twist rate for sabots and why I can't get better accuracy using maxi-balls and hunters is beyond me. Maybe I have to play with them some more.


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## souliog (Jan 10, 2009)

Got a little afraid of using the powerbelts next weekend, dec 17th, so I picked up a few boxes of Hornady Great Plains 385gr bullets. Will test this weekend and report back.


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## souliog (Jan 10, 2009)

Ended up finding some hornady fpb's and they shot well. 80 grain ffg with 3 inch groups at 100 yds. Good enough for deer hunting next weekend. I want to try more combos after muzzie season but I ran out of time for now. To be continued...

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## souliog (Jan 10, 2009)

Here is my target with 90 grain of ffg...i think with more time and practice I can get a higher powder charge to work. I want to try 100gr of Pirodex select next time.
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## souliog (Jan 10, 2009)

Well the FPB's did their job. 100 yards downhill with the doe quartering towards me. Put the shot in the neck and through the lungs, eventually blowing out the opposite shoulder. Dropped in her tracks. Bullet did not pass through so i am eager to see what shape it is in when I process her. Won't know for 9 more days. I prefer to hang my deer for a few days.

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## 19rabbit52 (Jul 15, 2007)

I don't know where you can buy them but Lee makes a mould for a conical they call R.E.A.L. (rifling engraved at loading). I've read quit a bit about these bullets and they are claimed to work the best in slow twist barrels. Better accuracy that is. This is the only conical I've ever heard of recommended for slow twist rifles.


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## GuppyII (Sep 14, 2008)

I think if you want to go to 150 you need to go heavier not lighter. That fbp or a big conical is probably better than trying to get a saboted round to shoot. If your that worried about longer range a new gun may be a better option. 
Excellent job on the slick top, she should be some fine eating. 

Bambi makes a cute sandwich!


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## souliog (Jan 10, 2009)

Here is the bullet I found in the opposite side in the skin...looks like it got spun backwards. Still happy that it is mostly intact. You can also see the rifling impressions.

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## souliog (Jan 10, 2009)

GuppyII said:


> I think if you want to go to 150 you need to go heavier not lighter. That fbp or a big conical is probably better than trying to get a saboted round to shoot. If your that worried about longer range a new gun may be a better option.
> Excellent job on the slick top, she should be some fine eating.
> 
> Bambi makes a cute sandwich!


I think you are right...i'm going to make this the best 100yd gun I can and after that I need an inline. I'll try the 350gr fpb to see if they shoot tighter at 100.

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