# Running with the dogs



## CeltMan (Oct 3, 2009)

I know a lot of bear are taken from bait hit by dogs. My brother-in-law has dogs and guides hunts. I'm sure all you know him if you are Michigan Bear Assoc members. He's a good guy and ethical.
I just don't get into the dog bit. Not right now. I'm not against it though. 
For me, I would rather sit out there and take my chance with my recurve from a ground blind. Crazy? Stupid? Waste of a good tag?
Now I have not had a tag yet. I might change my mind once I do to better my odds. But when and if I do get a tag, I would like to think that I have an equal and fair shot at my bear. I don't want dogs running over my bait or chassing down the bear that my effort brought in any more than I would like it if some hunter walked up and urinated on my deer bait of feed plot. Yes the deer and bear may come back if not dead. But why make it that much harder?
Just my take
Now, how about a big group hug? Come on... Ya Know ya want to.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Good job Celtman, and hat's off to you for your dedication to traditional archery and your plan to hunt from a ground blind. It adds plenty of excitement to the hunt.

Only one point I want to again bring up...none of us have private property rights on public land. Getting where you won't encounter other users is your responsibility. And if you find it unavoidable due to concentrated hunting pressure...its because MDNR issued too many tags.


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## James Dymond (Feb 23, 2002)

slicktree said:


> I can go on private property to get my dogs without permission but I can't take a firearm. If the land owner stops me then I have to call the law and they will come and let me.


I'm sure I have a print out somewhere where Boehr stated if told you could not enter by the owner all you could do is walk around the outside and call for the dog. Jim


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## malainse (Sep 2, 2002)

James, you are correct. Once told to leave/not enter the property nothing more you can do. 

slicktree - After the owner says no, "The Law" cannot authorize someone to enter onto property to retrieve dogs. But, most people will allow it once "The Law" is at the scene.


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## wolverinehuntclub (Oct 11, 2009)

First off I wanna say that I support the rights of both Hunting methods Baiting and Dogs. 

As I stated in an earlier post of mine .I feel Baiting positively affects dog hunting and dog hunting Negatively affects bait hunting.

I hope you dont think this is apples and oranges but Recently when dogs were running deer on my land here in Va during the summer.I caught 3 of them and took them to the owner and told him his dogs musta accidentally got loose since there was no dog training for deer at this time .I explained that they were running deer on my land and that we are still hunters (dont use hounds)and that I understand that the dogs cant read my well posted land etc. He said oh yeah somehow they got loose on him .I asked if he needed a hand putting them away he said na and just shoved them in his polebarn.

Guess what ? The next weekend .They were out there again and I took the Dogs to the County animal control.They said they would contact the owner and he can come and get them for 45 bucks each.

Sad part is later this summer I seen one of his dogs that I had caught before and the condition of this dog was horrific.Mange,Tics ,fleas,chiggers and starvation.I will try and post a pic on here.I called animal control and they came out and dispatched the poor dog on the spot.

I think its safe to say this is the type of dog owner that causes the problems and conflict .99.9999% of Houndsman are not like this .This bum just didnt give a sh&^ about other hunters or his animals .

So, What im saying is to catch the dogs and take them to animal control if they are on your private land after you tried talking to the owner if that is possible.

This is for Rooster Cogburn (I Loved that Movie) Im just commenting on your statement about blaming the smallgame hunters for messing up bear hunting. I had that happen every single year in the Baldwin district. They went totally nocturnal on me.Do I wanna ban small game hunting ? No .Just stating that hunting Bears in Michigan is tough for all .If it were easy ...We wouldnt have any Bears.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Interesting post wolverinehuntclub. Just want to clarify my statement about complaints against small game hunters having a negative impact on bear hunters using bait...I mentioned it because it is the most petty complaint I ever heard made from one sportsman about others. Sure glad it is only a small minority running around with the opinion they have priority over all others in the woods. 

Wolverine...your statement claiming hound hunters have a negative impact on folks bear hunting over bait is something I'd like to debate with you. If you can spare the time, please be more detailed in your complaint. I am hoping you can cite specific incidents in which you base your conclusion on. 

Glad you enjoyed the Movie, Rooster Cogburn...so did I.


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## Bearboy (Feb 4, 2009)

Bait stations.....you never had a dog. Its that simple. I had baying hounds in the box and bear not wanting to leave bait sites(more than five years ago when there were a few)....run off a bait..the bear always comes back...if it didn't why would we bait it again????? Unless its hunting season and someone shot it!


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## thehuntingauthority (Oct 22, 2009)

Why not try it this way ? 

Then triple the permits to let more folks enjoy the resource.Then all the squabbling is done. 

I would like to hear some of your replies to this idea.

What I really wanna know is how you would get your Bear and where ?

Here are the rules 

No Baiting or Burns of anykind

No Dogs except for recovery of a wounded bear 

No rifles only archery or muzzleoader tackle

Do you think tripling the permits would be enough?

I think your expert answers will help alot of the folks having problems seeing bears.

I think if the average Joe set a goal on scouting and finding bears and getting a visual then put in for a permit after learning about them they would have more success using the other methods.Just knowing that if you bait there they will come is not enuff.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

thehuntingauthority,

Great vision on your part, but it still wouldn't work...there would still be small game hunters and even firewood cutters to blame for a lack of success. All other users would need to be prohibited access to public land for this to work. However, with Granholm's EO and obama's support it could become reality.


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## mark49331 (Sep 26, 2009)

It would never work cause the bear density is not like deer.A few years ago I saw a study and it said in michigans very best bear habitat that had the highest density of bears per sqare mile that it was 2.2 bears per square mile and that most areas are 1 per sq. or less.
I suppose you could try and stalk but at those densities you would probably end up doing alot of walking and seeing no bear and even if you were close the bears would likely be moving ahead of you.


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## Andy Drumm (Dec 23, 2008)

thehuntingauthority said:


> Why not try it this way ?
> 
> Then triple the permits to let more folks enjoy the resource.Then all the squabbling is done.
> 
> ...



WOW :sad: ..


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## Mickey Finn (Jan 21, 2005)

Andy Drumm said:


> WOW :sad: ..


I thought of a one word response too. But that wasn't it.:lol:


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## thehuntingauthority (Oct 22, 2009)

I have read a ton of post on this forum from alot of seemingly knowledgable bear hunters.It seems some folks only know Dogs or they only know how to Bait.

Is there anybody on this site that actually knows a little something about our beloved Ursus Americanus?

All I heard was excuses about why it wont work . Lame answers about the bear density lol. If you just personally cant hunt withoutout a pack of hounds or bait just say it .

I am looking for real answers if you dont mind!

If I were Jenn down there in Lansing . I would Ban both methods and I bet there would be no more bear forum. There would be nothing to fight about.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

The dnr chooses to maintain bear density at a low level (esp. in the L.P.) to avoid human conflict. Bear populations are tightly managed. That is the reason for the low permit numbers and/or short seasons. Under the dnr management plan, hunting using other method probably would not yeild much success or meet the goals set by the DNR.

Many years ago you were allowed to kill bear during deer season and at one time you could buy tags over the counter. Apparently the DNR was not satisfied with those systems. So we have ended up with short seasons, long waites for tags, and low bear densitys.

Personaly I could live with over the counter tags every year, a longer season and no bait.

I have to ask though........Have you ever hunted bear in Michigan without bait or dogs ?

And if you have were you successful ?


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Obviously we have an anti-hunter here on the forum.

Spot & stalk works in Alaska, and some of the western states, but not here. Try your "message" in New Jersey maybe it'll be better received.


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## coyote/dave (Mar 10, 2009)

swamp buck.... don't know what part of the lower you are in but we have plenty of bears.. quit going to the U.P. because we have better dog runnin down here.... why waste the money on gas,motel,bar tab,food when i can run a bear every time i go out and only spend 20 bucks on gas....


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## thehuntingauthority (Oct 22, 2009)

Rooster still waiting on a real answer from you ??? How would you ever even see a bear without the hounds or bait? Do you even know how? 

I am Prohunting Bigtime . All I ask is a question and all you have to do is admit that you wouldnt even know where to start bear hunting without HOUNDS in your case.

That comment about me being anti really Pi$$#@ me off!


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## thehuntingauthority (Oct 22, 2009)

I am totally aware of how Michigan has been doing the Bear hunts.Thanks for the info though.

I actually have hunted in Michigan with bait and scored in 1990 Copper Harbor area.

I have also been on in a chase or 2 with dogs.We decided not to shoot a bear in 2006 Manistique Area.

Near the town of Gay .I shot a Bear with a bow sitting on the edge of a standing corn field . I was sitting in an apple tree. I guess you call that a food plot.1999

I am not suggesting turning the Firearms deer hunters loose on Bears .


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

thehuntingauthority said:


> I am totally aware of how Michigan has been doing the Bear hunts.Thanks for the info though.
> 
> I actually have hunted in Michigan with bait and scored in 1990 Copper Harbor area.
> 
> ...


 I know that it can be done, And I think I personally would benefit from longer seasons and yearly tags without bait or dogs.

But the question is with the current crop of hunters, many who only have a few days. and the current reg's/management goals would it work?..........I dont think so.


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## wolverinehuntclub (Oct 11, 2009)

Here in Virginia we are not allowed to bait at all and we do have a dog season.(How messed up is that ?) The dog season is only in a certain counties in the mountains. We dont have a lottery system and when you buy your Big Game license you get a Bear tag. 

I was out this past weekend sitting on a cornfield in Amherst County Va and I seen 4 deer and about a #200 boar.The problem is when this corn is cut I will have problems seeing bears unless(see below)

I will try and answer your questions

No dogs or bait....As long as management goals are being met and public Safety isnt compromised.. I would say go ahead and try this .You might have to put out 100,000 permits though and im sure the baiters would cheat alittle.JK

How would I see Bears then ?...... Food is always the key of course. What I do here is scout every chance I get for bear food sources .I mark them all out on a mapping GPS .Acorns ,Other nuts,fruit trees.Farm crops and dead animal depositories.Once I find the food sources .I mark them out on an Aerial photos.Then on my aerial I look for funnels /bottlenecks rivers ,streams ,ponds They love crawfish ,frogs alot of things in the water and tend to walk near the water if there is good cover.Then I set up trail cams on as many possible travel corridors that I can .Hopefully ,after all this you can chase the hot food source around and see some bears. I usually have pretty good luck seeing bears but bears are my hobby and I put ALOT of time into scouting . Ask my poor wife .

Just my opinion but I think the No Bait or Dogs idea wont work to well in Michigan.As mentioned in an earlier post the casual bear hunter just wont be able to find the time to do the homework because of jobs , kids etc to kill enuff bears .If you let Gun deer hunters at the bears they would probably decimate the population up there in Michigan.

I hope this answers your question but if you were the hunting authority you already knew all this .Right ??


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