# Winterizing an outboard or not?



## Topshelf (May 24, 2005)

georgeb said:


> The VRO should not be ran without oil or gas, it could cause future problems. The VRO system is designed for both fuel and oil at the same time, you are playing with a very expensive replacement if bad things happen, not to mention the tow in from where it fails.
> 
> Below is the recommendation from Crowley marine for Evinrude/Johnson winterization.
> 
> ...


I doubt any motor will run without oil or GAS? I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just saying it won't run without gas. The oil injection pump works hand in hand with the gas. So if the motor is not running, the oil injector is not doing anything either. 

I just didn't know if the VROs had some kind of a quirk having to do with letting them run out of fuel? 

I've been running two strokes WITH carburators out of gas to winterize, either oil injected or mixed 50 to 1 in the tank for 40 years. Come springtime hook the gas line back up, pump the bulb and fire it up. Never had an issue.
I'm not even big on fogging the motor. Seems unnecessary unless you're going to leave it in storage for a year or so. 

If you don't run the fuel out of the carburetor bowl of anything that's carbureted you will have issues come 3 months later. Today's fuel, and even rec fuel will go bad a whole lot quicker than it used to. You'll end up with gummed up jets in your carburetor and it won't run. That's an expensive fix to send to the outboard mechanic come springtime.

I only run Rec fuel in my boat, motorcycle and vintage Mustang. 

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## SteelShot (Jan 26, 2011)

lostontheice said:


> Is "winterizing" the same for 2 Stoke v 4 stroke?.. I just bought my first boat and it has a 90hp 2 stroke Johnson.. What do I actually need to do to store it for the freeze season?.. I would like to be able to grab n go if the river doesn't freeze this year (like last year).. Thanks for any tips/tricks for a new owner..


I have not had a four stroke so can’t comment. For the two stroke as others have said change the lower unit oil. The main purpose is to get any water out of that may have seeped in through a bad seal. The other thing is to put the motor down to get all the water to drain out. Fogging oil should be used for long periods of storage and definitely keep your battery on a trickle charger. 


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## georgeb (Sep 17, 2008)

Attached is VRO operation directly from Evinrude, See red text esp. underlined section

here is a clip of the PDF

If air gets into the fuel, it causes a foamy solution, similar to a head of beer in a tall glass. (A vapor lock situation does the same thing ). The volume of liquid fuel is less and the oil delivered is the same as for a full chamber of fuel. Now you have richer gas oil mix with its resulting symptoms. A fuel restriction such as from a bad anti-siphon valve, kinked line, or a partially plugged filter does not allow a full charge of gas to be drawn into the fuel pump cavity. Again, you get the full shot of oil mixing with less gas. This is also the reason to not disconnect the gas line and run the engine "dry". As you run out of fuel, the oil still pumps, filling the lines and carbs with your favorite TC-W3 lubricant.


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## georgeb (Sep 17, 2008)

here is more to consider above Evinrude/Johnson's recommendation of not running the VRO without fuel/oil together

A VRO runs off pulses from the combustion of the fuel/oil. The pulse is passed through the pulse limiter which is a small screen for a lack of a better explanation. The combustion pulse actuates the diaphragm in the VRO which is the fuel/oil pump and that is when the gas and oil get mixed together. 

When a fuel line is pulled off a motor (any motor) the air fuel ratio is impacted causing the motor to run in a progressive lean state to the no fuel shutdown. This is not an instant operation it takes a few seconds. As the fuel/air ratio goes towards lean the motor combustion temperature increases causing a lean misfire. The lean misfire can over time damage the pulse limiter which will over time damage the VRO diaphragm. 

This happened to me from excesses ethanol in the fuel I purchased when I first owned my VRO equipped motor. The net result of the damage was a $1000 replacement. The ethanol also caused fuel lines and carb damage which is why it was so expensive. I replaced anything that flowed oil or gas to be safe, but that was above the VRO damage cost.

After the replacement I learned as much as I could about the operation of the VRO so I did not cause any other problems. This is how I learned about recreation fuel and about ethanol in regular unleaded fuel. I also found out what the alarm tones are from the VRO and made sure they were functioning correctly in hopes of catching a problem before damage occurred.

I hope this helps, I am just trying to help others not spend money on a problem that they might create without meaning to cause.


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## Topshelf (May 24, 2005)

Okay so now I understand. I guess I was thinking about old school oil injectors that weren't as sophisticated as this VRO system.
I think what I'll probably end up doing then is putting some stabil in it so the fuel doesn't break down. I'm still on the fence on fogging so we'll see on that.

I appreciate the info though. I'm new to this motor and didn't realize it was that sophisticated and technical. The last thing I want to do is end up having to spend a grand to get it fixed or worse.

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## Robert777 (Jun 24, 2018)

Gas is the key, remove it. Drain fuel by running engine until it stops after removing fuel line if your boat motor has carbs. Fuel injection? You need to do more.

DO NOT USE ETHANOL IN YOUR BOAT. It absorbs water and gels then hardens in your carb, injection and fuel system. Boats, older cars, lawn mowers, all the same. Modern cars have closed sealed fuel systems so they are less effected by ethanol absorbing water and gelling and hardening in the fuel system.

If your engine is fuel injected then manually drain the fuel injection pump tank, consult your manual to find the drain valve and don't be afraid, it is easy.

As for oil, change that in the spring not the fall.

I made a setup where I can attach a electric fuel pump instead of the regular gas line and with clips to the battery, pump the gas out of the fuel tank into an auxiliary 5 gallon tank and use it in my car.

Never leave gas in your boat fuel system over winter, not a drop.

In the spring you will be ready to go with all fresh ethanol free gas.

Not doing this, draining all fuel cost me big bucks in boat fuel injection repair cost, so I just learned what I needed to know and now do it in the fall/winter no matter what.

Thing is, I thought I was doing it right be just running my boat motor until it quit by disconnecting the fuel line, nope. There is still a small tank of fuel the high pressure fuel injection pump is setting in. All fuel injected boat motors have this same system. Unless you drain that tank, you got fuel still in your motor and it can absorb moisture, gel and harden and clog up your fuel injection pump and cost you a lot of cash to get fixed.

That problem came from my assumption running the motor until it stopped was enough so I just stopped there and did not dig deeper and find out what was really needed and how to do it until after I had a problem and the boat would not start in the spring.

~


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

CrawlerHarness said:


> Almost everything we all do to winterize a motor is overkill. Stabil, seafoam, fogging, Ethanol free gas, changing the lower unit oil, etc....If I have my boat out in December/January....I usually skip everything. And like everyone says....no issues for 20 years.
> 
> The only thing that really needs to get done is making sure all the water is out of it, as well as the water in the livewell lines.


I agree with everything but the ethanol free gas being overkill. Ethanol laden fuel is prone to water absorption and the subsequent phase separation. That doesn't happen with rec gas. Ill run ethanol in the summer, but Oct 1 I change over to make sure the entire system ifs purged of ethanol. And I still change my lower end dope annually, in the fall, to make sure I have all winter to fix it if there is an emulsion coming out, and to not allow any water that may be in there to freeze and blow otherwise good seals. ( Obviously if you have the amount of water in there that would have cracked the lower unit, it would have blown up for a want of lubrication already).


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## gman (Oct 13, 2000)

How do you clear the lines on the livewell? Blow them out with a shopvac? Hoping to extend the season on the water this fall myself. thank you


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## CrawlerHarness (Dec 9, 2017)

I have used a leaf blower, as well as an air hose with a rag wrapped around the nozzle to direct the air. I am guessing there are better ways.


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## SteelShot (Jan 26, 2011)

Try a air blow nozzle with a rubber tip for the live well lines. You could also put in a tee, shutoff valve and a quick connect. 

Just hook up the compressor and open the valve. 


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## fishinfever (Feb 14, 2005)

I haven't done this but I am considering it. I saw a few videos where the guys sucked in RV Antifreeze and circulated through the system. I don't think you would have to leave it full of antifreeze but the liquid left in the system would be antifreeze mixed with little water instead of pure water and shouldn't freeze.






Good Luck, FF


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## sledman (Mar 26, 2014)

I was thinking the same also.. And running
antifreeze thru the motor seen a video
where they run the antifreeze thru the muffs hooked up to a hose and a winterizing kit that Cabelas sells maybe overkill?? First year with boat.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

sledman said:


> I was thinking the same also.. And running
> antifreeze thru the motor seen a video
> where they run the antifreeze thru the muffs hooked up to a hose and a winterizing kit that Cabelas sells maybe overkill?? First year with boat.


Probably overkill but if it brings you peace...


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## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

Why antifreeze? Seems the water impeller which is special rubber (for salt) may deteriorate. The RV antifreeze would probably be a better match and cheaper.


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## piketroller (Oct 24, 2016)

Chessieman said:


> Why antifreeze? Seems the water impeller which is special rubber (for salt) may deteriorate. The RV antifreeze would probably be a better match and cheaper.


A good reason to use antifreeze if is the neighbor's cat likes to drink from rainwater puddles in your driveway and you don't like the cat. Outside of that, I can't think of a good reason. Outboards are self draining as long as you trim it down.


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## sledman (Mar 26, 2014)

I would use RV antifreeze.. probably will just change oil and lower unit grease and call it good..I use rec 90 fuel not sure about
fogging some say to fog others claim 4 strokes don’t require it. ?? Guess
everyone does it differently.


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

sledman said:


> I would use RV antifreeze.. probably will just change oil and lower unit grease and call it good..I use rec 90 fuel not sure about
> fogging some say to fog others claim 4 strokes don’t require it. ?? Guess
> everyone does it differently.


Unless you have a Gen 1 350HP yamaha, just leave your outboard down and it will self drain. I have never fogged any motor that still runs and have never had issues. Look how many people have summer cars that get parked in October and pulled out on Spring. Bet very few if any are fogged.

I always change the gear lube before the first sign of a prolonged freeze. Engine oil is dependent on age/hours.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

bowhunter426 said:


> Unless you have a Gen 1 350HP yamaha, just leave your outboard down and it will self drain. I have never fogged any motor that still runs and have never had issues. Look how many people have summer cars that get parked in October and pulled out on Spring. Bet very few if any are fogged



Tilt it up and down a few times! I get quite a bit more water the second time. I also crank it over briefly with the safety switch off. (Just started doing that after my mechanic mentioned sometimes water gets trapped in the impeller cup)


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## wildcoy73 (Mar 2, 2004)

As a outboard mechanic for years, winterizing an outboard is overkill.
Most shops that say they do this, is more likely just giving you a tune up, some stabilizer, and a engine fogging.
Most important thing you need to do is make sure no water in lower unit lube, and I like to remove the prop and lower the unit down for storage.
You can Crack a lower unit with water behind the prop. A few guys will use compress air to blow out some water.
I used to run my small boat year round on the river for steelhead.
But as I aged I don't like playing with iced up ramps.

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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

gman said:


> How do you clear the lines on the livewell? Blow them out with a shopvac? Hoping to extend the season on the water this fall myself. thank you


Get down to the outlet, and suck on it, til the line is clear. :evilsmile

No, don't do that. :tdo12:


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## piscatorial warrior (Sep 14, 2011)

wildcoy73 said:


> As a outboard mechanic for years, winterizing an outboard is overkill.
> 
> Most important thing you need to do is make sure no water in lower unit lube, and I like to remove the prop and lower the unit down for storage.
> You can Crack a lower unit with water behind the prop.
> ...


Exactly this! An idiot friend of mine ruined 2 lower units because he was too lazy to check LU lube for water before storing for the winter. The water froze and expanded, splitting the gearcase. The first time, I helped him replace the gearcase. The second time, I just shook my head and told him he was too stupid to be my friend anymore.


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## sledman (Mar 26, 2014)

Well I finished up winterizing the boat, 
Lower lub as well as oil changed. Also decided to run RV antifreeze through the live wells. Wondering what to do with the batteries do they need to come in the house. 
The boat will be in a unheated storage with access to power. My boat charger has a maintenance feature so I can keep them fully charged. The batteries are Deka Marine Master which are flooded type batteries. 
Hoping to just keep them plugged in what do you guys do?? Thanks


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## piketroller (Oct 24, 2016)

sledman said:


> Well I finished up winterizing the boat,
> Lower lub as well as oil changed. Also decided to run RV antifreeze through the live wells. Wondering what to do with the batteries do they need to come in the house.
> The boat will be in a unheated storage with access to power. My boat charger has a maintenance feature so I can keep them fully charged. The batteries are Deka Marine Master which are flooded type batteries.
> Hoping to just keep them plugged in what do you guys do?? Thanks


Top off the water in the cells if needed, clean corrosion off the connections, and leave them plugged into the charger.


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## bobberbill (Apr 5, 2011)

I leave my batteries in the boat. As long as they have a full charge, they'll be fine. I unhook them. Putting a battery maintainer on occasion over the winter won't hurt.


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## sledman (Mar 26, 2014)

K thanks guys


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