# New Illegal Snagging rig showing up at Tippy Dam



## Shoeman

I still want to know who's selling them....

If the local Bait Shops are, call them out!

Just like the Dam Store, selling M60's way after they were illegal.

He just kept them behind the counter, but yet made a ton of coin catering to snaggers,

Provide a source....


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## Bobby

FishMichv2 said:


> I think you know what I mean. A chunk of metal meaning a block used only as weight for snagging. Intent to snag is clear with the item in question.


There you go. you know what I mean? Do we?
The description of the legal lure, as written in the booklet or in this thread would be torn apart with a half assed lawyer. But who has the money to pay any lawyer for a ticket of this type? The State plays this bet, writes the law (or description) vague enough and let's the feet on the ground LEO's handle it. Not a bad way to go.
We do know the intent of the law, are we surprised that someone developed a lure (call it what you will) that they think gets around the law?
By the way, if the young fella with his lint flickin' equipment fishing the Upper Betsie last week is reading, tab over to the DNR website. This hook reg change DID NOT change the closed portion of the Betsie River. I will call next time I see you out there.


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## Robert Holmes

JVoutdoors said:


> Don't forget the one about just trying to feed their family. Unless retired, it would be much cheaper to go by salmon at the store. But that would assume they don't have a job and can stand and cast snagging rigs all day long...


 Back in the 1970's on the AuSable people ripped salmon in shifts. It was like an assembly line, the same bunch would be there day and night and night and day. If you weren't snagging you couldn't find a place to fish. About November it cleared up enough to steelhead fish if you could stand the smell of dead salmon and work your way through the twisted mess of lines. Just a guess there was many thousands of miles of line in the river, tons of litter, and thousands of pounds of m-60 snag hooks in the river. It was not unusual for someone to drown there every year.


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## Floater

Saw them at Andy's this weekend. $3.00 each...


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## Fishndude

Floater said:


> Saw them at Andy's this weekend. $3.00 each...


Those won't seem like a good investment in a month.


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## 6Speed

Another Iron Frog recipe....


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## FishMichv2

Bobby said:


> There you go. you know what I mean? Do we?
> The description of the legal lure, as written in the booklet or in this thread would be torn apart with a half assed lawyer. But who has the money to pay any lawyer for a ticket of this type? The State plays this bet, writes the law (or description) vague enough and let's the feet on the ground LEO's handle it. Not a bad way to go.
> We do know the intent of the law, are we surprised that someone developed a lure (call it what you will) that they think gets around the law?
> By the way, if the young fella with his lint flickin' equipment fishing the Upper Betsie last week is reading, tab over to the DNR website. This hook reg change DID NOT change the closed portion of the Betsie River. I will call next time I see you out there.


yes, you do know what i mean. people are playing dumb either to give the DNR a hard time or because they just want to snag or both. we all know what a fishing lure is. if you are using a chunk of metal with trebles attached then you are a snagger. the "this is the same as a spoon" argument makes anyone who is using it look foolish and is clearly snagger or at least just wants to be a pain in the a$$.


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## -Axiom-

FishMichv2 said:


> I think you know what I mean. A chunk of metal meaning a block used only as weight for snagging. Intent to snag is clear with the item in question.



I've seen way too many people using outlandish equipment & tactics to catch panfish to assume too much.

A Swedish Pimple is basically "a chunk of metal" as is a little Cleo etc.


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## Robert Holmes

Fishndude said:


> Those won't seem like a good investment in a month.


I will bet that they work better than my thousands of dollars worth of spoons did on the big lake this past summer. I could buy a few and paint them up to look like a carbon 14 and a green dolphin. I will bet a Jack Kevorkian would be a real salmon killer. Michael Jackson that one has not worked well in about 5 years, so we will skip that.


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## kzoofisher

-Axiom- said:


> I've seen way too many people using outlandish equipment & tactics to catch panfish to assume too much.
> 
> *A Swedish Pimple is basically "a chunk of metal" as is a little Cleo etc.*


Hardly. Those lures are designed with the the curves just so and the the weight distribution just right to imitate an injured bait fish and induce the target species into striking. Many knockoffs fail to get the formula right and are far less effective. A chunk of bar stock with hooks on it makes no pretense at inducing a strike. This attitude of always trying to skirt the law is the primary driver in the decline in American ethics. Just because you can get away with something doesn't make it ethical to do it. We can't legislate those kind of ethics, we can only stand up as sportsman and tell the unethical that what they are doing is wrong. This doesn't drive a wedge between sportsman, it drives a wedge between slobs and everyone else including the non-fishing public whose support we need to protect the future of our sport.


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## FishKilla419

Floater said:


> Saw them at Andy's this weekend. $3.00 each...


Bingo. One guess. I didn't even know for sure. But that was my first guess. Piss on that place and their catering to snaggers...
In one year of reg changes tippy has saw drastic changes on the crowd that frequents its waters. Why is anyone that is a sportsman sticking up for these low life snaggers??


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## JVoutdoors

Some of us had this debate going back when the law changed, anticipating just this type of junk. And many of us predicted those who think they are smarter than the CO and prosecutor would be disappointed when they get hammered for a really expensive fishing trip. All the jail house lawyers pop off with their bad advice to their snagging buddies. And this year they probably didn't even get to snag one and get it to the van before getting the ticket because the fish count was low, LMAO.


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## Robert Holmes

I would guess that with the salmon count being so low people will be practicing on how to properly floss so that they can get the steelhead off from the gravel this spring.


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## jimbofish

FishKilla419 said:


> Bingo. One guess. I didn't even know for sure. But that was my first guess. Piss on that place and their catering to snaggers...
> In one year of reg changes tippy has saw drastic changes on the crowd that frequents its waters. Why is anyone that is a sportsman sticking up for these low life snaggers??


Andy's was on the local TV news a few weeks ago whining about how he was going broke because there were very few salmon brought to his cleaning station to be cleaned at $3/fish.

Some years ago, there was a concession truck at Tippy that sold coffee, hot chocolate, snacks, pre-made sandwiches, etc. They also sold light terminal tackle... egg hooks, split shot, swivels, etc. Fisherman liked it because they didn't have to drive miles back to Brethren and then find they couldn't get back in because the parking lot was full.
A Norman Twp. official started a crusade to get it shut down because "a local business person" complained it was "stealing" their business. (FWIW Said official also happened to operate a gift shop in town.) After numerous attempts failed due to lack of jurisdiction on state land, word came down from Lansing that the concession permit should not be renewed. The gist was that the local legislator had gotten involved and State-level politics intervened to overrule a clearly lawful operation that really was a service to fisherman.
At that time, other businesses were coming to appreciate that ethical fishermen were spending more money on lodging and food than the snaggers. Apparently, they didn't have as much political influence as some.


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## Bobby

FishMichv2 said:


> yes, you do know what i mean. people are playing dumb either to give the DNR a hard time or because they just want to snag or both. we all know what a fishing lure is. if you are using a chunk of metal with trebles attached then you are a snagger. the "this is the same as a spoon" argument makes anyone who is using it look foolish and is clearly snagger or at least just wants to be a pain in the a$$.


I don't disagree with you, I still think a half baked lawyer could win in court if someone wanted to fight a ticket for using the "lure" described.. But who is willing to pay any lawyer to fight a ticket for snagging, especially if/when the intent is to snag? The ticket won't break the bank, a lawyer might.


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## Bobby

I'm curious and I'm serious and I'm not trolling.

Why does the simple act act of keeping a foul hooked fish rankle so many folks? Especially a fish that is in the last throes of life. I really don't know. I haven't river fished for salmon in 40 years. I have a place on a salmon river and I have only fished during the salmon run 1 hour in the 3 years we have had the place.

How is snagging different than gill netting, trap netting, spear fishing, bow fishing, net dipping salmon in Alaska? None of these methods hook a fish in the mouth.


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## Robert Holmes

Bobby said:


> I'm curious and I'm serious and I'm not trolling.
> 
> Why does the simple act act of keeping a foul hooked fish rankle so many folks? Especially a fish that is in the last throes of life. I really don't know. I haven't river fished for salmon in 40 years. I have a place on a salmon river and I have only fished during the salmon run 1 hour in the 3 years we have had the place.
> 
> How is snagging different than gill netting, trap netting, spear fishing, bow fishing, net dipping salmon in Alaska? None of these methods hook a fish in the mouth.


Snagging and foul hooking is illegal. More fishermen would rather not have snagging. In rivers spawning trout and salmon are ripped off from their beds by snagging. I would suggest that it would be the same as shooting ducks off from their nest in the spring. If you allow a fisherman to keep a foul hooked fish even by accident you open the door to allowing snagging. Some people are very good at foul hooking fish.


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## Robert Holmes

Bobby said:


> I don't disagree with you, I still think a half baked lawyer could win in court if someone wanted to fight a ticket for using the "lure" described.. But who is willing to pay any lawyer to fight a ticket for snagging, especially if/when the intent is to snag? The ticket won't break the bank, a lawyer might.


I doubt it. Go to Cabela's, Jay's, Gander Mountain, or any other sporting goods store and see if you can find a lure that looks like that thing. It is possible that a fish would actually bite on that contraption but highly unlikely. More likely than not it was made for the sole purpose of hooking fish other than in the mouth. Thus it is not legal to use


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## jimbofish

Bobby said:


> I still think a half baked lawyer could win in court if someone wanted to fight a ticket for using the "lure" described..


In the OP it was stated that the Manistee Co Prosecutor has already successfully convicted users of this 'lure'. I'd say the court has agreed and it would be pointless to fight it.



Bobby said:


> Why does the simple act act of keeping a foul hooked fish rankle so many folks? .


There are other fish in the river besides the salmon "that are going die anyway". Snagging doesn't discriminate.


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## jimbofish

Bobby said:


> How is snagging different than gill netting, trap netting, spear fishing, bow fishing, net dipping salmon in Alaska? None of these methods hook a fish in the mouth.


Those are legal. Snagging is illegal.


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