# "Meat hunter" tag?



## poz (Nov 12, 2004)

Boy hunters are sure a selfish bunch.
All we are hearing is how everyone is shooting my buck. "I would have shot a B&C buck if all the guys didn't shoot them while they were young. "

I've been accused of wanting my hunt to be easy because I am against thinning the herd down to 1.3 million. That I just want to go out sit in my stand and see 20 deer. 

Well after reading all these threads it seems that alot of the B&C chasers actually want to make their hunt easier. YOu guys can't shoot a B&C buck so you want everybody to pass up their deer that they can legally kill so you can get your trophy. 

Some of the best deer hunters that shoot trophys have shot them with the herd at high levels, and with hunters shooting small bucks since deer hunting started. These guys put 1000's of hours a year on their hunting to get that trophy. yet here in Michigan you guys can't do it so you want to ruin other peoples hunting so you can accomplish your goal. 

You guys want to grow your own trophys. Just remember a buck that makes it to 5 years old and becomes a trophy naturally, is totally different than a buck that you didn't let anyone shoot, and fed it and watch it grow for 5 years. This deer is not really a trophy, you can call it one if like, but we true sportsman know it's not the same.


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## beer and nuts (Jan 2, 2001)

Actually Bob, I like the idea of having options at the terminal. Either sex tag is good, Quality Deer tag(buck over 6 points), Trophy Buck Tag(8 points or more), Any Buck tag. 

Now I know alot of guys do hunt in NLP that are from the SLP, but couldn't the terminals rocognize the license home town and give out either tags depending on hometown location. Lets say a guy from Baldwin gets his license, depending on quota the DNR sets the terminal could shoot out an either-sex tag or buck tag or mandatory report your buck tag, etc.. lots of ways to work the technology. Say the guy is from downtown Detriot, obvious one will not be hunting his hometown than that guy would get a either tag or whatever!!! Or they could set a quote where certain people(based on percentage or luck) would receive a Quality Deer tag along with a doe tag too, where that person has the a license to shoot a 6 point or better OR an antlerless. I would assume alot of guys by their license pretty close to where they might hunt or at least general area--not all so that is one of problems.

All this is wasy to improve better Management which I'm not sure the man-power is there.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

Beer and Nuts, those aren't bad ideas. "Actually Bob, I like the idea of having options at the terminal. Either sex tag is good, Quality Deer tag(buck over 6 points), Trophy Buck Tag(8 points or more), Any Buck tag."

Maybe $15 for an 8pt or better tag, $25 for a QDT (6pt's or better) and $40 for an either sex tag. Incentives work. 

Poz, we're not trying to make it easier for us. Again, you need to flip the thinking. We're trying to make it easier for the meat hunter to get his meat without hurting the ratios. 

Making gun opener later also would dovetail nicely with what we're suggesting.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

poz said:


> Boy hunters are sure a selfish bunch.
> All we are hearing is how everyone is shooting my buck. "I would have shot a B&C buck if all the guys didn't shoot them while they were young. "
> 
> You guys want to grow your own trophys. Just remember a buck that makes it to 5 years old and becomes a trophy naturally, is totally different than a buck that you didn't let anyone shoot, and fed it and watch it grow for 5 years. This deer is not really a trophy, you can call it one if like, but we true sportsman know it's not the same.


Poz, you just don't get it. Who's talking about B&C deer? We are talking about deer that are at least allowed to get to maturity. And selfish? Again, you don't get it. So passing up bucks is selfish? Wanting a stronger more balanced deer herd so that someone like you that is not necessarily interested in putting in the effort may benefit from is selfish? And please show me one quote in this forum where someone complained about a person shoting "their" buck. You can't, plain and simple. 

I'm not interested in making big bucks easy to hunt and if you knew anything about big bucks or mature deer, you'd know that in a free roaming herd, big mature deer will never be easy to hunt, period. With better balance herd structure, the hunting will actually be a bit more difficult. Heaven forbid that hunting be a challenge....it's a sad day when someone decided it needed to be easy to keep someone interested. 

That last paragraph is a winner! So, you better not ever shoot a mature deer poz, who knows that old deer might have been fed by the farmer next door or the neighbor may have let him walk two seasons ago. If you put a tag on that deer, you might tarnish that "I'm a true sportsman" crown your wearing!


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

I recognize your problem up there. But I also recognize the difficulty in changing the thinking of this group of people for a number of reasons. In this society we live in with typically two working parents, and kids into every imaginable activity, time is of a premium. Are they causing this problem themselves? You bet they are. But the fact remains that many deer hunters have very limited time, and opportunities, to hunt...the "weekend warrior" if you will. It gets worse all of the time. I would suspect a lot of the hunters that come up your way are in that boat...you'd know better being that you're in the business of catering to them. Let's face it, your livelihood is based on the "weekend warrior" coming up there and spending money. You also have "traditions" that people continue to follow, and generations of families that have owned property up your way for many years with the intention of hunting there. How do you change that? Even if the deer numbers go in the toilet, people aren't going to just sell a piece of family property because of it.

Unfortunately I think this type of "evolution" in the thinking of the masses will not happen overnight. Most of the people I hunt with down here in south central Mich. used to go north 20 years ago, and used to shoot only bucks. Now most of us stay here because we have deer up the ying-yang, we own hunting property, and we have an unlimited supply of antlerless permits. Yes, we still like to take a nice buck, and we normally all take one with gun or bow. But we like to fill all of our freezers by Jan. 1st, and our take now is probably 2 to 1 antlerless. It's taken a long time to change our thinking, but we've done it. If our deer numbers all of a sudden dried up here, we'd probably over time all start going somewhere else again. Problem for you up there is these people have cottages, summer homes, retirement places, etc., that they just aren't going to leave to go hunting. After all, that may be the very reason they bought the place! How many times do you hear one of your customers saying "I'm headed to Lansing for the deer opener"? By nature your customers up there aren't going to do that. 

I just think you're dealing with a different element of hunter up there, and changing the thinking of the "weekend warrior" is going to be tough.


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## poz (Nov 12, 2004)

Swamp Monster said:


> Poz, you just don't get it. Who's talking about B&C deer? We are talking about deer that are at least allowed to get to maturity. And selfish? Again, you don't get it. So passing up bucks is selfish? Wanting a stronger more balanced deer herd so that someone like you that is not necessarily interested in putting in the effort may benefit from is selfish? And please show me one quote in this forum where someone complained about a person shoting "their" buck. You can't, plain and simple.
> 
> 
> 
> That last paragraph is a winner! So, you better not ever shoot a mature deer poz, who knows that old deer might have been fed by the farmer next door or the neighbor may have let him walk two seasons ago. If you put a tag on that deer, you might tarnish that "I'm a true sportsman" crown your wearing!



I do get it,hunters want AR so deer can get bigger and grow bigger horns. It's about the horns. It has nothing to with the health of the herd. because if it did you would be happy for a hunter that shot a legal deer. as long as he had the health of the herd in mind. Let it be the hunters individual choice what he wants to shoot. Many hunters kill large bucks every year because they work hard at it and a few get lucky..

You said it yourself "Wanting a stronger more balanced deer herd so that someone like you that is not necessarily interested in putting in the effort may benefit from is selfish? 

Isn't this making the hunt easier for me. After all , I guess I'm one of the guys who can't hunt and just go sit off the road 20 yards and shoot the first spike I see. Correct.

The whole AR thing is to get bucks to grow, why are hunters complaining about other hunters shooting small deer. Because they want them to stop so they can shoot bigger deer.

As for the last paragraph. If you think a 5 year old trophy that a guy had in his food plot every night he hunted for the past 5 years and passed on it until it grew big enough for him to shoot is the same as a 5 year old that was shot on state land that was either passed on or shot at numerous time in it's life. Than you need to sit back and really think about hunting. One is a trophy and one is a pet. I hope you can figure out which is which.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

poz said:


> As for the last paragraph. If you think a 5 year old trophy that a guy had in his food plot every night he hunted for the past 5 years and passed on it until it grew big enough for him to shoot is the same as a 5 year old that was shot on state land that was either passed on or shot at numerous time in it's life. Than you need to sit back and really think about hunting. One is a trophy and one is a pet. I hope you can figure out which is which.


Its not a trophy until you shoot it is what you mean. I mean, if the neighbor did this and you put your tag on it, I'm bettin you'd change your tune a bit. It's not a trophy if it's fenced, I'll agree, but in a free roaming deer herd their are no guarantees. And trust me, if it were as easy as you make it out to be, everybody would be doing it, even the lazy ones. If it were that easy, I would have a wall full of big bucks. The fact remains, it's not that easy, nor will it ever be.

The fact remains, you did not enter this thread with an interest in ideas, just throwing negative comments about people that have an itnerest in making changes for the better.

Oh, and this is not an AR thread, it's a thread about giving all MI hunters a legitimate chance to fill their freezer while still protecting a vulneable age class of deer.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

Poz, 
Any herd without 3.5, 4.5 and 5.5 year old bucks IS an unhealthy, unbalanced herd. Simply creating something that should be there, but isn't due to our historical mismanagement, that we now know was wrong doesn't mean you're making things easier. Would you suggest letting some young giant Red Woods grow to 500 years old as "making things easier for loggers" or making a more natural forest?


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

:banghead3


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## Brian S (Apr 5, 2002)

Bob, I don't think state land meat hunters (like me) need a special tag. 

We go where the deer are. My camp is in Gladwin, but when Gladwin Co antlerless permits aren't available, we apply for Bay or Arenac Co permits and hunt there. 

If the herd is that bad in your area, my guess is that many of the state land hunters will move to greener pastures.


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## poz (Nov 12, 2004)

Bob,

What is the average age of the michigan deer herd? I bet it's a lot older than most people think.

What I'm trying to say is that we shouldn't be forcing one beliefs on what is right onto other hunters who are legally hunting. You will not accomplish anything by forcing people to do it. It will happen when people decide to do it for themselves. If you don't want to shoot a small buck then more power to you. But we shouldn't try to force anyones personal beliefs on anyone else who is hunting legally.
It is bad for the sport. With AR's QDM. Doe permits. We are dividing our once strong group. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think thee dove bill will pass in our favor because many hunters are so divided that if they aren't hunting it they don't care about the other hunters. LOok at the whole AR thing going on. The guys who are for it, don't care about the weekend warrior, and the weekend warrior doesn't care about the AR guys.
I understand what you guys are trying to do. I would like to see more larger bucks also, but I also understand that we can't ruin our sport trying to accomplish something.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

For much of the NLP, I believe it's historically been roughly...
60% 1.5 years old
29% 2.5 years old
1% 3.5 years old
0% 4.5 years old and older

That's for bucks in this area, anyways. That's what I was told at a check station and jives completely with what we've seen here since the 1950's and by talking to the area processors and taxidermists.


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

I always thought being a "meat hunter" was an excuse to shoot a young buck.


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## Brian S (Apr 5, 2002)

I never new anyone even needed an excuse for shooting a young buck.

Hey Jeff, when did that start?


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## twohats (Oct 1, 2004)

Meat Hunter! Dont we all hunt for meat? Isnt that what hunting is about? Putting meat on the table. If your not hunting for meat what are you doing in the woods? Sure horns are nice but I hope the horn hunters are also meat hunters.If not what a waste. It would give hunters a bad name. I am eating two nice tasty deer burgers as I wright this.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

A meat hunter will shoot the first deer he sees, as long as he has a tag for it and be done with the season ASAP.
Anyone who lets a doe pass if they have an antlerless tag or any buck pass is looking for something more out of the hunting/outdoors experience than mere meat. Some hunt for the challenge, the nature, the kinship, the natural calling, etc, and the meat is just a nice bonus by-product. Deer meat is far too expensive if you just want meat. Beef and chicken are far cheaper once you add up everything.
Actually, if you consider the time spent looking for deer meat, and time is money, I'm sure lobster is far cheaper than venison.  
I recall reading in like a Field and Stream that, if calculated adding the cost of tags, guns, bows, gear, boots, gas, food, beer, etc, venison was like $20-30 a pound on average.


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## poz (Nov 12, 2004)

NorthJeff said:


> I always thought being a "meat hunter" was an excuse to shoot a young buck.


Actualy we shoot button bucks, their meat is more tender than the 1 1/2 yeart olds.

Common guys grow up.


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## twohats (Oct 1, 2004)

Yes it is much more than just the meat. But it is untainted meat. Not like the factory meat thats poisioned with growth enhanced feed. Just think about all the chickens in that pen walking around in all the crap and then the feeder goes off and spreads the feed on the ground with the chicken crap. Makes me hungry, NOT! I dont think you can put a price on good healthy deer meat. Posioned beef ,chicken crap or deer . I think I will have the deer please. And also enjoying the beauty in the woods with the sunrises and sunsets. Ok enough of that. No I dont think there should be a meat tag. I will wait for a doe or a nice buck no spikes or forks.


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## twohats (Oct 1, 2004)

But if it is the end of the season and I havnt put meat in the freezer yet, Ya I will take a spike or a fork for meat if I get the chance. :lol:


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## poz (Nov 12, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> For much of the NLP, I believe it's historically been roughly...
> 60% 1.5 years old
> 29% 2.5 years old
> 1% 3.5 years old
> ...


Are these the kill numbers. I put a question into the DNR to see what they say the average age is, I'll post it when I get it.

If these are kill numbers than a lot of 1 1/2 year olds anr 2 1/2 years old make it through.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Brian S said:


> Swamp Monster, it probably has a lot to do with the 'holier-than-thou' types that feel it is beneath them to shoot a yearling and expect others to do the same.
> 
> :


Could be some of it. But, in my experience, the folks I have talked to at sport shops, gas stations etc, certainly don't get that attitute from me. I'm quick to notice and say nice deer etc, and I mean it! I hope they are proud and I like to hear the storoies etc. I would not, nor have I ever put down a person for shooting a certain deer. I may make a different choice, but thats not relevant in these situations. These are just my observations and these posts have made me wonder why that is. I doubt your that person, nor are others on this site, but it happens frequently during the season.


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## poz (Nov 12, 2004)

Swamp Monster said:


> Whats a record book got to do with trophies?
> 
> For the record, the last one did, maybe the next one, I don't know. I have my eyes on a big mature 6 point that is 4 1/2 years old, he won't make any record book (maybe MI with a bow though)


Congrats on your record book buck.

What i''ve been trying to say is that everyone considers a trophy differently, many guys will say that if it doesn't make the books than it's not a trophy. I don't say that and I think every deer is a trophy. 
Some guys will look down on you if you shoot that six pointer, Yet, I bet you will be proud of it, all I am asking is to give the same respect as you would expect to receive.

So if a guy shoots a spike and he is happy than be happy for him.


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## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

you guys are posting faster than I can read :yikes: but what I've read doesn't wash - enough with the 'name calling' - 

Not to worry, however, I have read enough - this thing is so far outta wack - sorry Bob - you had a great idea for a thread - and there are 'some' than just can't let some topic rest to have a discussion that is on topic and not personal - 

I'm going to close this now - catch up on my reading - and ya'all need to run out and mow your lawns or something to blow off some built up steam - 

ferg....
Gee we were running so well for a while without this kind of crapola - 

:sad:


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