# ice conditions



## jharris (Jan 23, 2006)

I have been feeling for you guys down there with no ice. We finally got really good snow conditions and my machine is out of the action until I put in a new rear arm. Have not gotten to do as much ice fishing as I have wanted. We now have a couple of feet of ice and I have only been out maybe a total of three times since November when the ice became good. I have only caught around two gallons of smelt. No room to complain though as you don't have ice. I heard my dad was open water perch fishing in Alpena as late as a week or so ago.
This picture shows our ice conditions. It is focused mostly on the north east corner of Norton Bay with Koyuk river leading into it on the left of the pic. I know people are preaching global warming, but it is flipping cold up here right now.


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## MrBluegill (Dec 8, 2005)

Thanks for shareing the photo it gives me hope! well hopefully have ice here in the next coupple weeks.


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## Buzzy (Dec 18, 2002)

Were all on our way!!!!! :lol: Thanks for the picture.


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## QuickStrike (Dec 21, 2006)

jharris said:


> I know people are preaching global warming, but it is flipping cold up here right now.


Preaching Global Warming

I'm not sure where sportsmen are at on the whole global warming/climate change issue, but I am quite surprised that there are still ice fisherman living in the upper Midwest who don't believe there is a major problem with our environment. It should be quite obvious now that every day, when you walk outside in Lower Michigan, global warming is a fact. It is now January 9, and still no stable ice. To give this some perspective, Tip-Up Town (where people historically parked their motor homes in big groups on Houghton Lake--but now can't safely walk on the surface) should be happening in about ten days. When I was a kid in the early '80s, ice fishing was a given in November. For the last few years, our ice fishing season has shortened dramatically. It's the same in Wisconsin and Minnesota. Probably all over the Midwest. As I understand it, natural climate change is a gradual process that takes thousands of years to notice. Not decades.

It's fair to say that people like mild weather, including me, but this drastic change is unnatural, and alarming. I'd like my kids to be able to do some ice fishing in Lower Michigan with their kids. Or to go skiing. Or to have a snowball fight on the playground. These should all be very natural occurrances throughout the upper Midwest. Today, they are not.

Global warming is a fact. It seems that those who think otherwise are either outside of the realm where its effects are most obvious (like those in the most northern regions), or have been hoodwinked by the conservative objective and victimized by propaganda. What amazes me is that suspicion of global warming continues, especially among people who take their pleasure from the outdoors.

It's important to say that I consider myself largely conservative in philosophy, although, paradoxically, I also consider myself an environmentalist. Sadly, I have to measure both sides because there is no single party that looks out for the likes of outdoorsmen.


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## Coldwater Charters (Sep 17, 2000)

3 years ago we were driving on the ice clear down here in southern Michigan. They are saying we are having another el nino year. Global warming is one thing but this condition has to be from the El Nino.


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## WALLEYE MIKE (Jan 7, 2001)

This warmer than normal winter is NOT the result of global warming. Just unusual that the jet stream is still up north and has not dropped down. Beware cold will be back next week.


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## wolverine301 (Dec 21, 2005)

:help:  No such thing...El Nino once again...give it time, the cold is coming.


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## wackmaster (Jun 2, 2006)

I dont know about el nino but Every year, every winter seems to get warmer and warmer and I think it is from the thousands and thousands of pollutants we pour in mother earth and she isent liking it and this is a sign of the times to come if we dont change something. I dont think the polor Ice caps melted because of el nino.........just my thoughts:coolgleam


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## woodie slayer (Feb 25, 2006)

i just hope it gets cold enough to make good ice before we get hammered with snow


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## Jigster (Dec 4, 2002)

Now do I hang a right at the Koyuk River to get to your place?

Jigster


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## jharris (Jan 23, 2006)

Just walk straight down from the airport to the big old school building that is now apartments. Or, snag a ride on any snow machine that is up there... in a small village everybody knows everybody and where they live.
I am still interested in studying the global warming idea. I feel that we need to be responsible with emisions, but when you compare our emisions to a single volcano eruption... drop in the bucket. I have heard theories that the earth is still warming from the little ice age that Europe experienced in the middle ages. Talk about a quick drastic change... I realize that we all want more ice to fish on, but I am not ready for that much ice that quickly. So, whether global warming is fact or fiction... there are a lot of interesting theories out there.


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## QuickStrike (Dec 21, 2006)

This is an interesting thing, this El Nino. But apparently this phenomenon, too, has changed over time.

Not sure of how many people actually know the history of El Nino, but when I studied oceanography in the late '80s, it was widely held by science that El Nino occurred, if I remember correctly, every four years. It's affects were really only noticeable on the coast of South America, with non-significant events occurring further away. Now it seems that explanations for global warming as defined by El Nino are happening on a yearly basis, worldwide.

Last year we had two weeks of shaky ice in the L.P. at the end of December/beginning of January. Then, we had nothing that could support a human traveler. Oh, I heard of a few adventurous souls who sweated it out on two inches of ice, but most lakes didn't get a January or February skim.

I wonder what phenomenon happened last year? El Nino also?

It would seem that El Nino is getting more . . . public perspective, factual or otherwise.


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## 42vj42 (Jun 12, 2006)

Shoulda voted for Gore, I'd be dropping holes right now.


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## Arin (Jun 2, 2004)

Global warming is crap. CO2 levels in the atmosphere have risen gradually throughout the century with absolutely no correlation between the temperature. 
From 1811 to 1987 the average temperature of Rome rose less than 1/4 of a degree. 
The average temperature from 1943 to 2003 in Clyde, NWT, Canada has dropped almost a degree. 
Tokyo's average temperature has risen almost 4 degrees in that timeframe. 
NY,NY's average temperature has risen almost 5 degrees, too.
While, Albany(155 miles away) has had a drop of almost a degree.

Ann Arbor, MI's average temperature has dropped almost a degree from 1930 to 1998. 


Isnt it _global_ warming?? 



EDIT: Oh yeah - I saw some ice on a small lake today. Some of the bigger lakes dont have much, though.​


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## lookin for the gills (Jan 21, 2003)

Im with you 42. Gore would of had us 12 inches by now:lol:


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## QuickStrike (Dec 21, 2006)

OK. Many of you think one way, some the other. Clearly, this is going nowhere.

Here's the larger point: Let's assume that global warming is some kind of "crap". If we take action and nothing ever happens, you can ridicule those silly scientists for eternity. That is to say, you win and the scientists lose the argument. Everyone wins, really.

But if global warming is real, and we take no action then what happens? Everyone loses. (Well maybe not us, but certainly our descendants). We've only got one chance to keep this place in order. I don't understand why anyone would risk potential problems with the only place we have to live.

Maybe it's true what they say: Ignorance is bliss.


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## J - Rod (Oct 27, 2004)

What are we supposed to do? Vote Democrat....sorry, there's far worse atrocities than global warming that the dems are in favor of. 

Just a question? Was there ever 5, 10, 20, 50 year warming trends at other times throughout the history of the world? Is this the warmest the world has ever been? They say that this December was the 5th warmest ON RECORD for GR, was global warming worse in those other 4 years? 

It just seems like we are comparing this last decade of a warming trend to the past 100, maybe 200 years - it just doesn't seem like a compelling argument to me. Maybe if someone could convince me it's such a big problem, I'd worrry about it but right now there's more important things to worry about.


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## Arin (Jun 2, 2004)

I dont think anyone was advocating not taking care of the planet. But, there's absolutely no proof for global warming, while there is proof towards it being false. I really don't see how global warming can be believed at all. That one piece of data debunks it:
Albany's average temperature has went down by a degree over the last century, while New York, NY has had a 5 degree increase. 
CO2 levels have bene measured throughout the world and have steadily increased at the same rate everywhere.  ​


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## QuickStrike (Dec 21, 2006)

Arin said:


> I dont think anyone was advocating not taking care of the planet. But, there's absolutely no proof for global warming, while there is proof towards it being false. I really don't see how global warming can be believed at all. That one piece of data debunks it:
> Albany's average temperature has went down by a degree over the last century, while New York, NY has had a 5 degree increase.
> CO2 levels have bene measured throughout the world and have steadily increased at the same rate everywhere.  ​


You are foolishly relying on just two data points to make your argument, and so I'm going to save you before you shove your foot further into your throat. Do a websearch on just one term: the Kyoto Treaty. This is an international pact among more than 160 nations that specifically addresses climate change (i.e. global warming). Wikipedia has a pretty good page for just this topic. It's quite exhaustive, and expounds on all the causes of global warming, as well as the ways scientists can measure its effects. Check it out, you might learn something.

I'm not sure where you're getting your information to say that there is no proof of global warming, but I would respond by saying that countries around the world (and corporations within those countries) who are spending billions of dollars on the science of this problem would strongly disagree with you. Or maybe the leaders of all those other countries are mere simpletons, and the center of the rational universe exists only in the minds of U.S. right-wing extremists. Maybe there is a black hole in the world ouside the U.S. where countries and corporations can continue to exist by pursuing ridiculous fantasies.

Actually, I'm pretty sure where you're getting your information. My regards to Rush, or whichever extremist your father listens to. To their credit though, the spinsters are very effective on minds that don't work for themselves.


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## jharris (Jan 23, 2006)

Wow... anyway, I am very much for being a good steward of the land. I don't think that we should go around burning up as many fossil fuels as we can for a number of reasons from wars, to air pollution. I do however find it interesting that Global Warming is the theory that receives the most attention. Why is this? I am sure that there are those that feel it is because it is the best answer. I respect your right to hold that opinion. However, because it is the theory that gets the most air time does not necessarily make it correct. Plenty of history books print that Columbus sailed to prove the world was round instead of flat... even though this myth receives so much air time does not make it fact. "Lucy" has been preached as the missing link for years though it was proved to be a scam over 50 years ago. Again, air time makes these theories seem to carry weight even though they have been proven false.
That is a tangent. It is hard to really get a good look at either side of the equation as both sides stand to benefit from the general public latching on to a belief from either corner. Auto makers, oil producers... they want us to believe that we can burn as much fuel as we want without any ill effects. Certain governmental agencies want you to believe that global warming is an evil that will flood us out and kill us all if we don't do something about it and bow to them as our environmental saviors. There is money to be made on both sides.
Without going on any further and having to separate this post into chapters... I'll do some more research and encourage others to do the same.


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