# Great Lakes Tribal Members Get 50-Duck Limit, Possible Swan Season



## meganddeg (Sep 29, 2010)

I found this story over at the American Hunter (NRA) digital website: 

http://www.americanhunter.org/blogs/a-50-duck-limit

I hope that this headline doesn't engender all sorts of animosity towards our tribal neighbors. The limit has to do with those who are subsistence hunters and their rights to pursue that lifestyle. 

At first blush it sounds like it will have a huge impact on the waterfowl harvest but it likely won't because so few tribal members hunt ducks (perhaps 100 across Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan). Subsistence hunting is allowed in Canada with ducks and geese being harvested in the spring as well as the fall. 

Personally I'm okay with it, particularly in light of the fact that we need tribal members as partners in managing waterfowl habitat. See the most recent DU magazine which highlights a major effort to preserve northern boreal habitat across Canada and Alaska - 

http://www.ducks.org/conservation/conservation-initiatives/dus-boreal-forest-initiative?poe=SO14


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## JMSparty08 (Sep 20, 2012)

No problem with it. I assume they'll have to prove subsistence somehow in order to qualify? 

In any event, I don't think there'd be too many subsistence hunters going for waterfowl. If I'm hunting for food, I don't know that waterfowl would be my first choice. It's an awful lot of work and expense when buying a $400 rifle and shooting a whitetail is so much easier. Same with rabbit or other small game. If I had to eat to live, waterfowl would probably be my last choice.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

I'm fine, they should use pre-colonization hunting methods though. Same with fishing.


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## gottasled (Sep 28, 2010)

TSS Caddis said:


> I'm fine, they should use pre-colonization hunting methods though. Same with fishing.


The skies are no longer black for days with birds and the rivers can no longer be walked across on the backs of fish. pre colonization methods in a post colonized ecosystem won't work I'd think.


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## waxico (Jan 21, 2008)

Casino money sure buys nice shotguns.

I guess I'm of the opinion you can't have it both ways.

If they were smart, they would just do it the way it used to be done and load up the roost with snares.

My fear is the tribes will star selling the meat. It's endemic in Canada for both fish and fowl. Especially walleyes.


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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

TSS Caddis said:


> I'm fine, they should use pre-colonization hunting methods though. Same with fishing.


No limits back then.


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## Lucky Dog (Jul 4, 2004)

JMSparty08 said:


> No problem with it. I assume they'll have to prove subsistence somehow in order to qualify?


If it is like subsistence fishing, no.

I won't be surprised to see wild duck for sale soon from these subsistence hunters, just like the fish is for sale from the subsistence fishermen.


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## Zorba (Jan 24, 2007)

I have a problem with it. Any one who eats what they shoot is a subsistence hunter. I challenge any tribal member to show me the treaty that says they get more than I do. 

I like the way the government justifies it when they say, "there are so few tribal hunters that it has no impact" That's exactly how the minority Apartheid South African government argued why they deserve more of a vote than the black majority. They claimed that there was so few whites that they needed more of their votes to balance the power.

Our natural resources belong to everyone equally. I can not understand why anyone would think they deserve more.


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

The concept of skills from the old days passed along from generation to generation, well that would make the special accommodations worth while, sadly I have never seen it go that way.......all I have seen is abuse of a resource.


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## here2 (Apr 28, 2008)

Also if it's anything like Walpole they'll just lay the yellow carpet out every night and go to town . I think they get to abuse the rules they have like setting nets for whitefish and lake trout in the mouths of salmon spawning rivers and are aloud so much " accidental" catch 

Probably take out their great grandfathers SBE2 that has been handed down generation to generation


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

I used to fish a beautiful trib off lake superior for coho. Natural fish. Released all of them. Tribal fisherman with a 25 fish limit usually didn't even bother to stop at that found it. Watched pick up truck loads get ripped out of there. Banks covered with litter. Within three years there were no more coho there.

Ask Wisconsin lodge owners what they think of subsidence fishing meaning spearing spawning walleyes at night until the fishing in those lakes was done too.

No special privildges if it means abusing the resource.


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## waxico (Jan 21, 2008)

I just want to know: will guilt make this forever?


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Big Frank 25 said:


> No limits back then.


I'm fine with as many as they can shoot with a bow and flint arrow head.


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## TNL (Jan 6, 2005)

Treaty is valid "until the land is settled". Guilt seems to prolong the determination of the aforementioned settlement.


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## fsamie1 (Mar 8, 2008)

My Indian guide duck hunting guide told me that there are no deers on Walpole Island and once a while one swims across the mainland and the hunt is on until they find the deer. Good thing sucks are migrating ducks otherwise there will be no ducks on the island either. As far as I know they do not live of the land they go to grocery store like rest of us. I guess it is none of our business what they do on their land but they need to be educated that they will have much better hunts with proper management.


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## waxico (Jan 21, 2008)

Ha! I was told the same story! Word gets out there's a deer in the vicinity and the whole tribe posses up and chases down that animal until it harvested.
Probably how it was always done, except sustinence hunting didn't involve 4x4s and lights.


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## Gearhead (Jan 21, 2014)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> I used to fish a beautiful trib off lake superior for coho. Natural fish. Released all of them. Tribal fisherman with a 25 fish limit usually didn't even bother to stop at that found it. Watched pick up truck loads get ripped out of there. Banks covered with litter. Within three years there were no more coho there.
> 
> *No special privildges if it means abusing the resource.*


*
*

This. I think this is what is happening to some of the salmon & lake trout fishery in northern Lake Michigan.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

i guess i don't have much of opinion on it as i don't know the details/quantities they take...but i do know they abuse their fish rights and its pathetic. 

this posted below alone will piss anyone off, don't care what color you are. This method of fishing needs to be banned. If they are gonna use traditional gill nets, they can use stick and bow for the rest of their sustenance.


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## Waz_51 (Jan 10, 2010)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> i guess i don't have much of opinion on it as i don't know the details/quantities they take...but i do know they abuse their fish rights and its pathetic.
> 
> this posted below alone will piss anyone off, don't care what color you are. This method of fishing needs to be banned. If they are gonna use traditional gill nets, they can use stick and bow for the rest of their sustenance.
> 
> http://youtu.be/I1gAzaPyAZ8


That is disgusting and absolutely unacceptable! I cannot believe that the DNR wouldn't try to fight this and have it stopped for good... It's pretty obvious that they have no respect for the resource... The person responsible should have his rights taken away and the tribe that that person belongs to should be heavily fined for letting such wanton waste to occur... I don't care who did this or what color you are, you should be damn ashamed of yourself... You're nothing but a pathetic slob!


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

2+ miles of gill net for 2+ years. how many fish do you think that killed???? and it was still killing.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> 2+ miles of gill net for 2+ years. how many fish do you think that killed???? and it was still killing.


I don't know how many unmarked nets I've seen. I've always just assumed they were tribal.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

TSS Caddis said:


> I don't know how many unmarked nets I've seen. I've always just assumed they were tribal.


they are. see them all the time. they are supposed to regulate themselves...we/dnr I don't think can do anything to them.


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## waxico (Jan 21, 2008)

Moonlight justice?


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## Zorba (Jan 24, 2007)

waxico said:


> Moonlight justice?


I'm with you!


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> they are. see them all the time. they are supposed to regulate themselves...we/dnr I don't think can do anything to them.


We were bobbing around in the tender one day and I looked of to the side of the boat, 50 yds away there was a black float smaller than a pop can marking a net  I really don't think they give a sh#t about anyone other than themselves.

That said, I also hit a net one time from a commercial netter where they blocked off the entire mouth to the harbor. The floats were next to shore on each side of the harbor making it almost impossible to see the net. Went from 40mph to 5mph in a few seconds until the next broke free. Looked off to the side and could see them pulling the net in which probably brought it to the surface. Blocking off 1/4 mile wide harbor entrance doesn't seem like the brightest idea, even in Nov.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

waxico said:


> Ha! I was told the same story! Word gets out there's a deer in the vicinity and the whole tribe posses up and chases down that animal until it harvested.
> Probably how it was always done, except sustinence hunting didn't involve 4x4s and lights.


Reminds me of a story a buddy of mine in Montana was telling me. He was driving on the Crow reservation one day and drove up on 2 indians with guns standing in the middle of the road around a dead buffalo. He told his buddy that was odd and wondered where the Crow got a buffalo. They rounded a bend and found another indian standing next to a dead buffalo on the side of the road. They rounded the next bend to find a cattle car full of buffalo had over turned and the Crow were running around shooting the escaped buffalo:lol:


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## Duckhunter66 (Nov 24, 2013)

I hunt in the tribe area all the time and know several memebers...with that being said local DNR cannot do much but turn over to federal agencies. 
The tribe is supposed to handle the issues themselves but are never or rarely enforced.


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## lastflighttaxidermy (Jul 12, 2010)

Gene I've seen them out you know where. Same thing. Small chunk of noodle foam floating is all. Pretty crazy, always hope we don't hit them in the dark. Yet I've never seen them being checked. Pretty sad


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

We've hit them "you know where"...always makes for an interesting few minutes


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## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

KLR said:


> We've hit them "you know where"...always makes for an interesting few minutes


I don't know where, you know where is. Could you elaborate please?  

Or, do I have to drive all over looking for you know where to find these nets I can't see and don't know where they are, until I hit these nets you know where to know where you know where is? 

Ok now i'm confused, where were we?! :16suspect  

I've also hit a net or two in the UP and you might know where they are. But I run a surface drive so the nets were damaged more than you know what. That's right my motor was not damaged nearly as much as the nets were.


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## lastflighttaxidermy (Jul 12, 2010)

KLR said:


> We've hit them "you know where"...always makes for an interesting few minutes




Interesting. We haven't got one yet but there is always this year. Can't believe they are legal if marked so discreetly 



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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

I don't believe they are legally marked, but nothing will ever be done. Now, if you were to pull one up and take a whitefish off it, I'd wager, there would be heck to pay.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

I would guess that they are discretely marked, so non tribal members won't find and tamper with them


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## monkel (Nov 11, 2013)

reading this thread makes me mad and I don't even hunt those waters or go out on them.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

swampbuck said:


> I would guess that they are discretely marked, so non tribal members won't find and tamper with them


 
Great. Breaking the law so that someone else may or may not break the law.


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## Biggbear (Aug 14, 2001)

As a Tribe Member I can tell you guys, you have no clue what you're talking about. Look up the 2007 Consent Decree, it shows the laws we have to follow. All agreed upon by the Michigan DNR, and reviewed on a regular basis with all parties involved. Any Michigan CO can check us at any time, just like any Tribal CO can check any one hunting/fishing under a State license.

We have bag limits, season dates, that we have to abide by just like everyone else. Unfortunately we also have poachers, just like any other group of people, there are bad apples in every barrel.

Before you "...assume they were Tribal" try educating yourselves a little. I really liked the post about salmon fishing, and all the trash and poachers. Head to Tippy dam sometime, or the Boyne River during the next few weeks. Then tell me the problem is only Tribe Members.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Yep, but on Tippy, was a small run of naturally reproduced fish decimated until they no longer existed? 

Heck the DNR used my license money to buy out commercial fisherman, then gave the nets to the tribal fisherman, who then:

1. Sunk a tug at the harbor due to lack of maintenance
2. Caused all kinds of issues with poorly marked nets in areas of the lake seeing the highest sport fishing efforts
3. Routinely left nets in past season ending dates
4. Ended up with several boats including a Coast Guard vessel getting messed up in the nets or the excess poly rope just thrown off to the side
5. Finally ended up with their fisherman arrested for buggering someone underage. Not sure he was native or hired by same but it speaks highly of his character.
6. Had no plan for retrieving the nets as the buggerer broke his ankle and could not pull them before he went to non-tribal jail
7. Now has ghost nets just drifting around the lakes that they will never be heald accountable for

I got throughly reamed by the Coast Guard for my two stroke exhaust "sheen" on the lake not too long ago. I think it's funny that is a point of contention when leaving nets floating around the lake waiting to kill someone when they tangle their gear in heavy seas doesn't appear to be a big deal to the parties involved.

Need I post the results of the from the Steelheader's interview when they were basically told by a tribal representative that the above were not true but rather white man's propaganda?

Read the CO reports, any time a tribal member is busted by a CO it is turned over to "tribal authorities". They routinely post the results from inverstigations they conclude. I've never seen the results posted for any tribal investigation.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Biggbear said:


> We have bag limits, season dates, that we have to abide by just like everyone else. Unfortunately we also have poachers, just like any other group of people, there are bad apples in every barrel.
> 
> Before you "...assume they were Tribal" try educating yourselves a little.


Yes, I assume that unmarked nets are tribal since in areas of the great lakes where I see commercial netting taking place the net's are well marked and not left for a month until you find it balled up after a storm. The commercial netters best interest is to be able to find their nets and have them not ruined by boaters.


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## seabee8782 (Jul 25, 2008)

The way I look at it too is yeah poachers on both sides but, the poachers with a net do a lot more damage then a poacher with a big treble hook. I've seen lots of shady stuff in our area from the tribe. Like the "lake trout" nets at the head of grand traverse bay during the time the salmon are moving in. Give me a break not fooling anyone!


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## seabee8782 (Jul 25, 2008)

Same in platte bay every year too


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