# Malnutrition- 1936



## scott kavanaugh (Jan 8, 2006)

e. fairbanks said:


> Has anybody else noticed that much of northern Michigan is now covered w/pine and spruce plantations ? Not good deer habitat


Ya, but we got a 1000 of the happiest /fattest warblers your ever not gonna see.


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## Surf and Turf (Mar 26, 2008)

very true fairbanks, but there is much more. Today a wood cutting crew can clear cut 40 acreas in 6 days. Popolar trees used to be every where, now the industry is calling for hardwood and pine. For example, in the UP after a parcel is clear cut it comes back, just when the regrowth becomes good browse for the deer, it get sprayed, killed, then replanted into pines. Adequit cover, but poor norishment for the deer. We have so little wild country today. There are roads every where. As the state has grown with industry, the deer have lost more and more habitat. I agree that in some areas there are to many deer. In some areas we have run the deer out because we have destoyed their habitat. The only savior that they have is the vast areas of farmland. No matter how low we depleat our herd, farmland will have deer near around it. That is how they have adapted to the change in habitat. IMO


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## sagittarius (Jun 2, 2004)

http://ww2.dnr.state.mi.us/publications/pdfs/HuntingWildlifeHabitat/Reports/WLD-library/800-899/807.pdf.

As the original old growth forests were logged off, the deer herd spread north, and populations exploded with the new abundance of browse. As this browse matured, the deer population had less and less winter forage and thousands starved. Exact same thing happended in Wisconsin, 10-20 years after Michigan. Problem was, back then, you could not convince the public to legally shoot does to lower the population .... as thousands of deer were starving each winter. 

The Aldo Leopold quote below was made as dead deer were being autopsied in a deer yard in March. Bone marrow was examined to confirm starvation. Local county officials and the press were taken into the field to observe the results and help educate the public.


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## e. fairbanks (Dec 6, 2007)

Our privately owned cervid operations (deer/elk farms) are included in Michigans Right to Farm Act. The deer/elk on these farms are classed as livestock. If the animals on one of these facilities were malnourished and starving (THERE WAS NO MENTION OF THIS HAPPENING ON THE DNR'S SURVEY) the owner could be prosecuted for cruelty to animals.
The ban on feeding wild deer here in the NLP WILL RESULT IN MALNUTRITION AND STARVATION, CONTRIBUTING TO THE SPREAD OF DISEASE. Well fed, healthy animals are more resistant to disease.


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

how is the deer herd or for that matter, any wildlife species "managed"? bag limits seem highly ineffective. we have too many deer in Region 3 and far fewer in the other regions where we would prefer to hunt them.

we have reduced bag limits or even closed seasons on a number of species with no discernable effect. on the other hand, species like canada geese are overrunning many areas.


we arent generating enough new aspen to provide winter browse. i saw 20 acres of aspen about 7 ft tall completely killed by elk browsiing it in the winter. small clearcuts lead to classic overgrazing.

from what i understand, cedars and other evergreens are very poor feed for deer. they cant digest it and use it only as a last resort.

how much does the DNR spend annually on habitat regeneration? far as i can tell, essentially nothing. if it can be sold at a profit, then they do so. but nothing is spent "out of pocket". when i asked, they didnt even know what it would cost to do so.

if there is any method to all of this, i'm at a loss to see it.


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## Beavervet (Oct 16, 2008)

dogwhistle said:


> how is the deer herd or for that matter, any wildlife species "managed"? bag limits seem highly ineffective. we have too many deer in Region 3 and far fewer in the other regions where we would prefer to hunt them.
> 
> we have reduced bag limits or even closed seasons on a number of species with no discernable effect. on the other hand, species like canada geese are overrunning many areas.
> 
> ...


Excellent point, this million dollars spent on CWD testing for a disease that has never caused significant death losses ANYWHERE in the wild, would have gone a long way to doing some quality habitat work, in non agricultural areas, to improve the conditions for wildlife in Michigan. Today governmental bearaurcracies are too caught up in what if scenarios rather than factually assessing the current problems affecting wildlife and taking action to deal effectively with issues such as you mentioned.


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

the only way i can see that wildlife can be managed is through habitat. why throw hay to a deer herd, and i doubt if you can begin to provide enough hay, when you could sustain them by provide the browse they need by sound conservation methods.

i believe it would cost approximatly $2 million dollars per year to clearcut enough aspen to maintain what we presently have. an additional 10,000 acres on top of the 10,000 0r so that is being cut under lease.

hunters in michigan provide about $40 million in revenue to the dnr. 30 from license fees and another 10 from pittman robertson. where does it go? i dont know the answer to that.


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## 6inchtrack (Sep 29, 2008)

We saw a yearling browsing on a small pine tree just yesterday... sad.
I sure wish winter would tone it down a little.


If you oppose the feeding / baiting ban go to this site and print a letter to send to your elected officials.
E-Mail the link to your friends and family.
*http://sixinchtrack.tripod.com/*


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## sagittarius (Jun 2, 2004)

6inchtrack said:


> We saw a yearling browsing on a small pine tree just yesterday... sad.


Browsing on pine trees in January indicates poor quality habitat .... sad 

Habitat quality declines because years of high deer populations have over browsed prefered and secondary browse species ... sad. In many cases the prefered browse species disappeared years ago .... sad.

To improve quality habitat, the first step is to lower the deer populations to the sustainable capacity of the land. Prefered native browse species can be reintroduced, protected, and restablished. Once prefered native browse is sustainable, deer populations can be adjusted accordingly. Quality habitat management = quality deer management.


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## e. fairbanks (Dec 6, 2007)

Looks like it could be a baad winter for our deer.


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

sagittarius said:


> Browsing on pine trees in January indicates poor quality habitat .... sad
> 
> Habitat quality declines because years of high deer populations have over browsed prefered and secondary browse species ... sad. In many cases the prefered browse species disappeared years ago .... sad.
> 
> To improve quality habitat, the first step is to lower the deer populations to the sustainable capacity of the land. Prefered native browse species can be reintroduced, protected, and restablished. Once prefered native browse is sustainable, deer populations can be adjusted accordingly. Quality habitat management = quality deer management.


overbrowsing can be a factor. but the "native browse" grows every year and eventually it gets so big that the deer cant even reach it.


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## 6inchtrack (Sep 29, 2008)

_Browsing on pine trees in January indicates poor quality habitat .... sad 

Habitat quality declines because years of high deer populations have over browsed prefered and secondary browse species ... sad. In many cases the prefered browse species disappeared years ago .... sad.

To improve quality habitat, the first step is to lower the deer populations to the sustainable capacity of the land. Prefered native browse species can be reintroduced, protected, and restablished. Once prefered native browse is sustainable, deer populations can be adjusted accordingly. Quality habitat management = quality deer management. _
_[/COLOR]_ 
That yearling feeding on a pine tree was sad. (wish we could put some corn or grain out for it)
As a hunter that uses the state owned lands, I just do not have very many options.
We didnt help with population control this past year, never harvested a deer, but not for the lack of tring. 



If you oppose the feeding / baiting ban go to this site and print a letter to send to your elected officials.
E-Mail the link to your friends and family.
*http://sixinchtrack.tripod.com/*


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

if deer are artificially fed through the winter, then the herd will continue to mulitiply, growing even farther beyond the capacity of the habitat to support it.


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## sagittarius (Jun 2, 2004)

dogwhistle said:


> overbrowsing can be a factor. but the "native browse" grows every year and eventually it gets so big that the deer cant even reach it.


 What kind of bushes, shrubs, grasses, forbes, get too tall the deer can't reach them? 

If at one time a diverse healthy habitat supported say 50 deer/sq mile. Then over time the habitat changes, matures, browsed apon, diversity of forage decreases. Years later that same sq mile may only support 15 deer per square mile. Question is, did the deer population decrease to match the decline in habitat browse/forage.


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

they arent doing much grazing on forbes and grasses during the winter. they will browse on shrubs but a lot of them are out of reach once they browse off the lower parts. deer arent very tall.

i saw an area of 15-20 acre aspen about 7-8 ft tall that was completely killed by elk browsing it. that was confirmed by the dnr biologist. the area of browse was too small and they "overgrazed" it.

if you are getting a lot of winterkill, you have either too many deer or not enough habitat/winter browse. need to either decrease one, increase the other or both.


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## e. fairbanks (Dec 6, 2007)

The ALPENA News- 2/25/09
Malnutrition; The worst wildlife Disease 
If traveling at night on M32 west of Atlanta, use caution. A large herd of elk have been using the area to feed and once spooked, rumble across the highway, possibly into incoming traffic. " It is becoming a safety concern" sheriff Don Ewards said. "Not much we can do but the DNR needs to address the problem." The elk have been congregating at a farm west of Atlanta and devouring round bales of hay left in the field. Jim Baker, the owner of the farm "the DNR HAS TOLD ME THERE IS NOTHING MORE THEY CAN DO " The DNR/USDA put a fence around the hay but the elk ripped it down. Baker is concerned about the possibility that the elk might spread TB to his cattle by infecting the hay. The main concern is the risk of an accident due to the elk traffic across M32


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