# Dog hunting question.



## davidshane (Feb 29, 2004)

Well Kevin, no one can say that you don't have a sence of humor. :lol: 

I wish it where you that always ran the property, I'd join ya, drink all your beer and solve my problem. I figure you'd leave after running out of cold ones. As for the gate, don't worry, I leave it open now. It's easier than having to constantly put it back up. :banghead3 

Seriously speaking, I don't think that many hound hunters would pull the dogs of a hot track. And if a big bear treed on private ground, they go in and take it if they felt they could get away with it. Illegal or not. This thread started because I want to be able to hunt a bear on my property without having to address this problem. Thats why I like the ideal of adding a couple of days on to the first season so that a guy has a chance before the dogs go. If you think it matters not, then why do they do this across the UP? 

You too sound like a good guy. I can see that any opinion out side of the status quo isn't recieved very well here. Reality is that nothing is going to change here; however, most things can be improved on and I think this is one of them.


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## Big Game (Feb 7, 2002)

Yep you got it Kev- You described a pretty typical hunt behind hounds.:shhh: At least that is what everyone percieves it to be.

David - I can feel for you wanting to be able to hunt bear on your own property but however, when it cuts into what I want to do then it rubs me the wrong way. I hope you can understand that. We as hound guys are not all bad. Fact is Kevin and I always welcome people along who want to see the dogs run and experience it firsthand. We would hope that this is how people would make a judgement about hound hunting, by actually experiencing a legal fun chase. No I can agree with you on the fact that there are slobs out there that are giving Kevin and I a bad name. The fact is though you as a landowner need to prosecute them. That is the only way it is going to stop. I would actually like to see less slob hound hunters out there. But that would never happen because they aren't being challenged by landowners. Now can you agree that it is not fair for you to go after the legal hound guys just because of a few slobs?


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

KS

You put a smile on my face. 

DS 
As stated earlier I don't have hounds anymore but I'm sure if you asked to participate in a training day or two with hounds I would bet you would be able to find an invite. It may open your eyes :SHOCKED: that almost all hound hunters don't just sit over your fence or other private land waiting to turn loose their hounds. I was going to respond to your post but KS put a spin on it that I could never outdo.


As for the small minority of unethical hound hunters, I have no use for you when you cruise the right of ways through private land and start your dogs. There's plenty of room for everyone in Michigan's vast outdoors.

Unethical hunters cause the split in ranks in the bear hunting fraternity. This also includes bait hunters. Can't we all get along?


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## davidshane (Feb 29, 2004)

Wait a minute guys, I'm not saying this in a manner to help you to understand me. 

I've worked behind dogs before (Coyote - similar to bear hunting, birds, rabbits) and completely understand what happens during the hunt. You don't have to convince me that 1) it takes a lot to train those pups, 2) following them through the woods ain't no pleasure walk, 3) if, and only if, you decise to take a treed bear (I know you don't just shoot everything you can) the work to get it out ain't no picnic. I am all for this sport.

My opinion is this:

Other than a new born child, there isn't anything that is perfect in this world. Most everything can be tinkered with to be made better. All I'm saying is this, I like to see two days added to the first hunt in the lower. This way no one losses any time. I do not see where this would have a negative effect on anything or anyone. 

I'm probably wrong when I said that most all hunters would trespas is it ment a bear. Some will, some won't. I respect your hunt and only don't do it every year because I don't know guys with the right dogs.


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

I have never hunted bears and I have never hunted bear with hounds; however, i would love to hunt bearws with bait or hounds or whatever it is because i want to experience the different rush that comes with both methods. I think we need to be more sensitive to the private property owner because they may or may not hunt but they vote! And if they are constantly angry with "dog owners" not just hounds but birdhunters are guilty as well for tresspassing, they will vote for legislation against all hunting and then we all lose!!!! Any dog owner is responsible for their dog and is obligated out of ethics to try to the best of their ability to respect no tresspanssing laws etc on the flip side private property owners especially those who hunt need to try to be patient in dealing with hunters of all methods. That being said good luck in the bear draw I should have point number 5!!!!!!! :woohoo1:


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## Kevin Smith (Jul 16, 2003)

Well Dave like I said earlier I would, I thought about the seasons and the current setup. I never really gave any of them much thought except for what fit in my schedule for applying.
I found it interesting for the most part, the seasons overlapping in units and the different license quotas for each unit and season.
I have determined that my lack of statistical data, degree in biology and game management, etc etc makes me unqualified to challenge them for the most part. I have to assume that sound science and data back the quotas based on past success in those areas during those times, and it appears to work as the population is good and growing.
Do I myself have a problem with establishing the first few days for bait only?
No, provided it doesn't take away from others. Stagger the 2 seasons, make them overlap, make them 2 different draws for different weeks?? I don't care for the most part, I'm not petty enough to care who goes first but some are.
As for dogs putting bears in self defense mode, they are wild animals and LIVE in self defense mode. I still see a bunch of irate bait sitters in the UP that couldn't get their bear in a week all alone in the woods, but put the blame on the hounds that come a week later for their lack of success that season. Go figure.

As for making the the LP bait only? :coco: rotest_e That would never float and I won't get started on why.

Glad yall enjoyed the hypothetical hunt. I usually make myself taller in them too. Maybe next time.


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## davidshane (Feb 29, 2004)

Kevin,

One day maybe I can get together with you on a hunt. Though we may see things slightly different, we share one thing in common for sure - a passion for the woods.

Take care!


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## Minnesota Lion (Apr 15, 2004)

Maybe its none of my buiness. concerdering i live out of state. oh i'm from MICHIGAN. I know all the stories from from back home. baiters against dog hunters. dog hunters against baiters. bowhunters bad mouthed by gun hunters so on and so on. the bottom line to this hole deal. get the dam seasons changed first week bait. second bait or doggs. every other year flip the seasons. and make it totally the responseabilty of dog hunters to get permission to cross private land for what ever reason same for any person.i could care less where the land is located. a man works his life to own something he should have the right. to know who the h-ll is on ( HIS PROPERTY ) get a life some you. i'll bet most of you would have a ****tin fit if someone walked across your land... thank god we don't have the problem here yet? no dogs its sweet to put out a bait and know someone won't start there dogs near you. so tell me no one does that right. CHANGE YOUR SEASONS> AND YOU ALL CAN HUNT AS ONE IF NOT YOU'LL BE BICKERING TILL H-LL FREEZES OVER:yikes:


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## Big Game (Feb 7, 2002)

Thanks Mlion for your input. Seeing how your obviously anti-dog and definately from out of state I hold your opinion in very high regard. Just what we need an out-of-stater telling us how to run our state. Thanks but no thanks.


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## vancreek (Apr 4, 2004)

i will be sure to send a check out to the minnisota trailhound assosiation so you maybe able to enjoy the RIGHT to FREECAST HOUNDS on bear in your great state,i assume your doing your part in wildlife management at home as well as abroad.for every a$$ there is a seat.


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## Minnesota Lion (Apr 15, 2004)

never said i was anti dog lot of people my father hunted with used dogs i've even live next to them. never had a problem i just know you have had this bickering going on for years need to find happy meadium.knew when i posted i would get your comments . don't really care you all need to work it out. i say seperate season . is that hard to understand. oh send your money. they'll work it in somehow i just hope we can work it like wisconsin they have seperate season eveyone happy that i've talked to.


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## vancreek (Apr 4, 2004)

dont understand what you mean,bickering?starting a track on private property without permission is not something ethical individuals do,dogs on occasion do cross property lines and that is unavoidable,should they bay up or tree there you have a right to retrieve them you do not have a right to harvest without permission,i have not and hopefully never will post my porperty nor do i mind the ocassional treepasser as long as they dont throw trash about,i respect others rights to post their land,if someone is unethical it is irrational to tag all hound hunters as unethical,its not just about being sucessful,i hunt hounds cause i love to hear them run,if i have to constantly be sucessful it wouldnt be fun and i would have to question why i had dogs,same as bow hunting,deer hunting,duck hunting or fishing, if i feel as though i must violate the law to be sucessful or make up a lame a$$ excuse for not harvesting game then i might as well pack it in and find some other means of enjoyment,im not saying i dont want to be sucessful while hunting i am just saying if i have to be unethical or feel pressured to be sucessful it aint fun no more and life is too short to waste, its supposed to be recreation.that is like saying those dam deer hunters are driveing up and down past my bait pile all season and i just saw one shoot that buck from out his truck window that ive been feeding all year,i rather just dont assosiate with those type of people cause if they have to do that they need that deer more than i do, but i dont think all deer hunters do that,nor do i want to make different season dates because of it, whenever you have rules you have some who abid by them and others, who no matter how liberal the rules are, will go outside of them,thats life.this is michigan not minnasota or wisconsin!


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## Robert W. McCoy Jr (Jan 18, 2002)

There is some good information in this thread.


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## Minnesota Lion (Apr 15, 2004)

all i'm trying to say is you need to work with the (dnr ) (state goverment) who ever and see if you can change the season(s) x number days only baiters. xnumber days only dogs. then you have no one interfering with your pertictular hunt. and I still say you should talk to a property owner before you cross there land. not all hunters are bad. not all hunters are well lets just say there not hunters. i said we don't have dog hunting here (yet) and i hope we don't. that does not make me a dog hater................. the guy that said he would send money to get it leagle here . please use your money more wisely. there are people lossing there rights to bait. use dogs. and in some cases there right to hunt bears period. thats where your money should be going...... i'll say it again you should work at seperate season. and respet land owner rights....sorry i made some of you ill.:sad:


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## Kevin Smith (Jul 16, 2003)

Minnesota Lion said:


> .......................... and I still say you should talk to a property owner before you cross there land........................ i said we don't have dog hunting here (yet) and i hope we don't. that does not make me a dog hater................. the guy that said he would send money to get it leagle here . please use your money more wisely. there are people lossing there rights to bait. use dogs. and in some cases there right to hunt bears period. thats where your money should be going...... i'll say it again you should work at seperate season. and respet land owner rights....sorry i made some of you ill.:sad:


Your statements above are exactly my problem with you. (when you read that sentence in your head try to put my wife's tone of voice to it :16suspect )

You are entitled to not want to participate in dog hunting. I won't make ya.
But don't you dare try to tell me I can't or shouldn't or my brethren in your state can't or shouldn't. That is where you lose status as a fellow sportsman in my eyes and join the ranks of the liberal candy*sses that I will fight with every breath as will my boys and my daughter. Go ahead and hope they don't get dog hunting in Minnesota, but I'm sending money to support it there too. I thank you for leaving MI and pity the poor souls in MN but you are what we don't need. :nono: 

You keep cranking about landowner rights and not listening to us....we DO in fact respect them - you can single out the ones that don't in ANY group all day long - but you need to acknowledge our right to retrieve as the inevitable can and will happen without intent. Why do I need to hunt down and speak to a landowner to walk in without a gun and without a vehicle to snap a lead on my "free" dog or my $9500.00 bear dog and walk out? A landowner is gonna say yes anyway, if he doesn't there will probably be a bloody nose and cops and a bunch of crying and a big mess, and I'm gonna get my dog anyway. I bet they would all end up making ME walk in to snap a lead on him and leave, nobody would fetch him for me  
Then when I get home I have to deal with questions like "where did ya get that bloody nose?" and "you look like you been crying again, what happened?"

:chillin:


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