# Do you carry?



## TVCJohn (Nov 30, 2005)

jsbowman said:


> If you do decide to carry, the smallest I would go with is .357 magnum. Ruger makes a nice one, the GP100. Other options would be a Glock 20 in 10mm, or S&W 626 in .44 mag.


I just got one of those this week (GP100).


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## JSBowman (Nov 17, 2013)

TVCJohn said:


> I just got one of those this week (GP100).


I've had one for about 10 years now. Every time I let someone new shoot it, they ask where they can get one. It's a great sidearm.


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## TVCJohn (Nov 30, 2005)

jsbowman said:


> I've had one for about 10 years now. Every time I let someone new shoot it, they ask where they can get one. It's a great sidearm.


Shot it today for the first time. Going to replace the front and rear sights with something a little easier for the eyes. I may try using it for a deer hunt.


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## thundrst (Oct 7, 2007)

To the OP: There are so many advantages to getting a cpl & so few drawbacks I would definitely do it. Having piece of mind while bow hunting for bear is just one of them. If you get injured & cant get out, or if you get lost, you would be a lot more confident having a firearm than just your bow. There are tons of other reasons/scenarios not related to hunting that are extremely low probability but could have extremely catastrophic results that would be helped by having a cpl. Right now it is fairly easy & quick to get a cpl. Who knows what it will be like in the future years if you decide later you do want one. My 2 cents. Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## Fabner1 (Jan 24, 2009)

Ramble on Rooster, I like it!

old


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## kneedeep (May 30, 2008)

You guys make a lot of great point and I will be looking hard for one to take with me! Thanks for all your input.

I already have my eye on a few I held that I will be considering. One being the Ruger American.45 and I really like the 1911's

Not to sure I like any of the revolvers yet.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

I have allways liked those 1911`s also.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Kneedeep,

I do not now why the Ruger P-90 .45 ACP does not get any respect among gun writers. But, on the plus side I have shot a lot of different brands of ammunition through mine and never had it fail. 

For whatever its worth, my vote is for an automatic as you can easily carry an extra magazine and get reloaded a lot quicker than you can with a revolver. I have yet to find a revolver where the ejecting rod will push all the empties completely out of the cylinder...which can delay reloading time freeing the cylinder of spent cartridges.

As for those single-action handguns....there is nothing more frustrating dumping empties one at a time then reloading when you need to have the firearm right then.

Quick story: The 45 ACP will kill bears at close range. My partner and I had a bear treed. Several people went to the tree with us. Had a kid we were going to let shoot the bear. Got to the tree ready to tie back the two dogs that treed the bear. Had the P-90 in my hand as I was approaching one of the treed dogs when the bear bailed out hitting the ground about 6 feet from me. The two dogs instantly flanked the bear. Just as they were about the grab him...I knew the bear was going to spin around right in the middle of the folks behind me. Thumbed off the safety and and fired double action hitting the bear on the side of the head. He fell on his chin. Just dumb luck on my part.


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## TVCJohn (Nov 30, 2005)

Rich, good bear story. Could have started that with ..."there I was...."


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## kneedeep (May 30, 2008)

Rooster great info and story!

I will definitely look at the P-90 and anything else you guy recommend!

I just went to a buddies house and shot a few of his smaller calibers (.40), I liked them a lot better then the revolver.


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## JSBowman (Nov 17, 2013)

kneedeep said:


> Rooster great info and story!
> 
> I will definitely look at the P-90 and anything else you guy recommend!
> 
> I just went to a buddies house and shot a few of his smaller calibers (.40), I liked them a lot better then the revolver.


What revolver did you shoot? Sig Sauer makes the P220-10 in 10mm. The Ruger P90 is no longer in production, so you would have to look for it used. They also make the American in .45 as well as the SR45. I love my Rugers. The S&W M&P series are nice also.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

JSBowman,

Sorry, I should have better explained myself. I know Ruger does not make the P-90 anymore. Most likely their current model in .45 ACP is even better. Like you, I believe Ruger makes great firearms.

When I got my P-90 it shot 5 inch high. Fixed sights so now way to adjust. I contacted Ruger and they sent me two rear sight blades of different heights. The highest one did the trick.

I have a S&W Model 629 Classic I bought new. It consistently shot low. I contacted Smith. Gave me the runaround suggesting I ship the handgun to them. That was not acceptable to me. I wrote back advising them I had a sight problem with a Ruger P-90 and they shipped me replacement sights.

Surprisingly, S&W sent me a lower front sight. That worked. No doubt the .44 magnum has a lot more stopping power and is much better at a distance than the .45 ACP. So is the .357 magnum. I used to hunt with a .357 for bear and killed several. Good penetration with the .357 Magnum. Most likely the .40 cal would be as good as the .45 ACP for your mission. More ammunition capacity, too.

Hope I didn't add to the confusion!

Got a couple messages asking if I carry. Sure do. Have had a CPL long before the current more relaxed licensing policy. 

Funny story. A few years back I was driving through Painsdale, Mi. One of those places its easy to exceed the speed limit a little. Saw a state police patrol car parked on a side street with radar. Zipped on past him and watched in the rear view mirror to see if he was going to pull out after me. Looked like I was home free. Just as I was approaching the open highway there was the country sheriff's patrol car parked on the side of the road with his red light going and the deputy was motioning for me to pull over. I promptly responded. As he was approaching I hollered out the window...I need to inform you I have a CPL and have a handgun in the vehicle....my. 44 was laying on the passenger seat. The deputy hollered, GOOD! He went on to say, there's an escaped prisoner from Camp Kitwen on the loose. That's what I like about the U.P., most of the LEO's I encounter support CPL's.


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## kneedeep (May 30, 2008)

Love you story's rooster and your info!

I did find the p90 was discontinued, they now have the SR series now. Lots of guns to go through I guess!

So rooster you think the .40 would be a good round? I did like shooting the .40! Never shot a .45.


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## kneedeep (May 30, 2008)

jsbowman said:


> What revolver did you shoot? Sig Sauer makes the P220-10 in 10mm. The Ruger P90 is no longer in production, so you would have to look for it used. They also make the American in .45 as well as the SR45. I love my Rugers. The S&W M&P series are nice also.


It was a S&W but not sure what model. It has a 6" barrel. My dad hunts with it and he likes it a lot, just wasn't my cup a tea!


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Kneedeep,

Regarding the .40 caliber. I have never owned one. Only fired one a few times, Ballistics look good for your application, but I am no authority on the caliber.

One big plus for the .45 ACP is ammunition is cheap and readily available.


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## kneedeep (May 30, 2008)

Ok, I think I'll stick to the .45. Better safe then sorry!

Also any other recommendations on guns to look at feel free. I'm on overload right now trying to crash course lol.

Lots of good look guns. Anyone have and info on a Walther PPQ
or berretta PX4 Storm?


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## kneedeep (May 30, 2008)

After doing a ton of research and handling guns I have narrowed it down to 2. 
The Ruger American and the Walther PPQ with the PPQ being in front!

Now I have done some extra digging into calibers and it's really hard to find much difference between the .9mm and a .45 acp besides size. 

Faster smaller or bigger slower. All the same when it comes down to it is what I found!


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

kneedeep said:


> After doing a ton of research and handling guns I have narrowed it down to 2.
> The Ruger American and the Walther PPQ with the PPQ being in front!
> 
> Now I have done some extra digging into calibers and it's really hard to find much difference between the .9mm and a .45 acp besides size.
> ...


I don't think anyone would recommend a 9mm for defense against a black bear.


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## kneedeep (May 30, 2008)

I know what your saying but when you get down to it the 9mm might come out ahead due to more rounds put into a bear at a lot fast rate. In all honesty can you rely on a .45? They have near the same ft lb's.

I'm an archer and have heard the argument for heavy arrows carry more ke then light arrows and it not true. They become equal at close hunting distance. If I were to use it on a bear it would be at a very very close range.


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## kneedeep (May 30, 2008)

I know what your saying but when you get down to it the 9 might come out ahead due to more round put into a bear a lot fast rate. In all honesty can you rely on a .45? They have near the same ft lb's.

I'm an archer and have heard the argument for heavy arrows carry more ke then light arrows and it not true. They become equal at close hunting distance.


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## JSBowman (Nov 17, 2013)

At a difference of 70 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle, the .45 definitely comes out on top. Comparison between the 9mm 124g JHP and the .45 185g JHP. It's like comparing getting hit by a car going 65 mph or a truck going 50 mph. Both will probably kill you, but the truck is going to do more damage.


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## kneedeep (May 30, 2008)

Yes I agree. I was just saying I think you can get more rounds off a lot quicker which could be a better alternative.


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

IMHO. Neither round would be ideal. I think you should look at a .44 magnum or if you may end up out west a .454 Casull. There are a few nice lighter weight options for carrying.


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## JSBowman (Nov 17, 2013)

Light and .454 Casull do not go well together, just sayin.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Nostromo, I definitely agree with you on both the .44 and the .454.
I must have given the wrong impression on my choice of the .45 ACP.
I carried it because it was fairly safe at close range because it would not pass through and hit a dog. It will drop a bear in its tracks with a well placed head shot. Body shooting a bear with either the .45 ACP, or the 9 mm is not a good idea, Fat reduces penetration.

I imagine we have all heard the old story of why the military get rid of the .38 caliber handguns and went to the 1911 .45 ACP's. It was for the knock-down power. As I recall the .38 special and the 9 mm is nothing more than an oversized .22.

I know a bear hunter in Grand Marais who uses a 1911 .45 ACP with Plus P ammunition and he told me he gets good penetration on bears.

For someone who does not have experience shooting handguns, shot placement with the .44 magnum and the .454 Casul could be a problem. 

Clear as mud!


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

Alright, I'll bite. Just asking


jsbowman said:


> Light and .454 Casull do not go well together, just sayin.


why?


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## kneedeep (May 30, 2008)

Like I said I'm new to pistols but not guns. I'm not worried about size at all as I'm a bigger guy so that won't bother me. I just don't think I want a big ol revolver on my side while carrying a bow.


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## Fabner1 (Jan 24, 2009)

Rooster,

I could listen to you for hours!

I may be opening a can of worms here but did you know Paul Sprinkles?

Can't you shoot 45 long Colt out of a 454 Casull?

old


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Fabner, I do not know Paul Sprinkles. Why do you ask?

Thanks for the compliment. Glad not everyone is offended by my posts.


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## kneedeep (May 30, 2008)

Rooster I really appreciate all your info, please keep it coming!


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Kneedeep,

My dad got into archery back in 1938. Had a custom made semi recurve osage orange bow. Excellent instinctive shooter. He cut down a lemonwood long bow for me when I was about 5 yrs. old. I hunted squirrels, rabbit and even chipmunks as a kid. Never was a great shot.

When I started bear hunting with a bow....I had a 55 lb pull Ben Pearson recurve and I was using cedar arrows. Not being a great shot I set-up the bait about 15 yards from the ground blind I fashioned out of Chrstmas tree size spruce trees. Sort of like a teepee. Had an old arm chair to sit on....one of the arms was removed so I could come to full draw sitting down. I had glued a piece of muskrat fur onto the arrow rest so the bear would not hear the arrow sliding across the rest when coming to full draw. Bear came in went to come to full draw and the bear heard my leather finger tabs creak...and bolted.

Next opportunity the bear was broadside. Came to full draw and let fly. Hit the shoulder. Non-lethal hit. About two days later I killed the bear. Same one I hit in the shoulder. Broadhead was still in him.
Shot two more, the following two years. Both were clean kills.

I am not well versed on today's archery equipment and techniques.
Maybe you can tell me....seems a lot easier to make a killing shot on a bear hunting from a ground blind than it would be from a tree stand due to arrow placement. What's your thoughts?


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## kneedeep (May 30, 2008)

Another great story!!

In my opinion they both have there own advantages. 

In a blind your more concealed and get away with more movement but in a tree your sent is control is better. 

The only thing I can think of would be shooting down would give you a better blood trail due to being a lower exit hole. IMO Shooting out of either has no advantage over another. Just depends on what is most comfortable to you. I do both and have killed from both. I prefer a treestand only because of the view and don't feel confined.


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

Fabner1 said:


> Can't you shoot 45 long Colt out of a 454 Casull?
> 
> old


That's what they say.


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## Fabner1 (Jan 24, 2009)

Rooster Cogburn said:


> Fabner, I do not know Paul Sprinkles. Why do you ask? Thanks for the compliment. Glad not everyone is offended by my posts.


My Cousin Paul had a popular Bear camp in Iron Mountain.

Kilt a lot of Bar's. You would have loved him and he would have loved you!

His ashes are scattered up there I believe.

old


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Kneedeep, you make some well thought out points on the question of ground blinds versus tree stands.

Although, I did have an experience where a nice boar of about 250 lbs.
walked to within 3 paces of me at a rapid stride...and he never knew I was there. Had applied a liberal does of anise oil to the brim of my hat. 
Shot him in the throat. Sure glad he did a 180% reacting to the shot.
Only went about 50 yards. 

Reaction time for a bear is astonishing. I was using a 30 inch cedar arrow with a Herter's Ram MX broadhead. As the arrow was penetrating him he bunched up and snapped off the arrow. Only 11 inches of the arrow penetrated before it broke off. 

Had a lot of really exciting hound hunts, but that one was pretty damn exciting, too.


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## srconnell22 (Aug 27, 2007)

If you are thinking of 45ACP for bear, I'd suggest looking into the buffalo bore hard cast ammunition.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=161


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## kneedeep (May 30, 2008)

Yeah that's a hole different way of hunting compared to todays bows and I applaud you! I'm questioning weather I still want to go with a bow being its my first time in MI. 

I hunted in Canada once and took my bow and my 12ga. On my 3rd day of the hunt it started raining and I took my release off and put the 12 ga in my lap. Not long after a big boar showed up and I ended up dropping him where he stood!


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## JSBowman (Nov 17, 2013)

Nostromo said:


> Alright, I'll bite. Just asking
> 
> why?


A light frame gun, and the BIG recoil of a .454 are going to be difficult to handle, especially for someone new to handguns. When using it for personal defense against bear, you better hope that your first shot counts, because by time that you get the gun back under control for a follow-up shot, it will be on top of you.


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## yooper Bob (Jul 11, 2016)

Sure go buy one,good excuse. I carry when in the bush, why not.


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

jsbowman said:


> A light frame gun, and the BIG recoil of a .454 are going to be difficult to handle, especially for someone new to handguns. When using it for personal defense against bear, you better hope that your first shot counts, because by time that you get the gun back under control for a follow-up shot, it will be on top of you.


 Thanks for your reply. Your right you what your stuff wired tight in that situation. All of the guys I know carry .44 magnums. But the 454 is pretty interesting to me in single action. Maybe the Op should take a look at one of those.


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