# Hornady SST versus XTP



## rugertough

Can someone tell me the pros and cons between both of these bullets. Currently i'm shooting a 50cal. CVA Kodiak Magnum with 100 grains of pyrodex pellets and a 300 grain SST. I will be hunting mostly in an open field that has a range of probably 250 yards.

Thanks for any input.


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## jmoser

I have shot both out of my Encore. I got good groups at 100 with both 240/250 and 300 grain XTPs and SSTs. SST would be better for extended range with its aerodynamic shape vs the JHP handgun design. Terminal performance of SSTs on deer is devastating, XTPs expand and knock 'em down just fine.

I do find the SSTs are very hard to load in my gun, probably will stick with XTPs and bulk sabots. I am going to fine tune a load for ~130 gr / 300 XTP before I switch. 

If you are even thinking of a 200 yard shot then you will want to go with the 250 SST as fast as you can push it: think 130 - 150 grains of pyrodex [if your gun can handle that] for 2000 fps plus. Recoil with the 300s is a lot more, you may find that 130/250 is not as bad as you may think vs. the 100/300. Velocity of the 100/300 combo is fine for 100 yards but bullet will drop too far at 150 - 200 yards.

Even at 2200 fps you will be shooting a rainbow: unless you have a chrono and ballistic software better do some actual sighting in at 100 and 200 to see the trajectory on paper.


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## QuakrTrakr

I used to shoot XTP's and switched to SST's because I'm hunting open farm land more where shot's are longer. The XTP's are devastating, but they drop pretty fast after 125 yards or so. I have my gun zero'd at 200 yards shooting 150gr American Pioneer and lofting a 300 gr SST. It hits 6" high at 100 yards and I use the top of the bottom post of my reticle to put me dead on at 250 yards. I hit a doe at 190 yards last ML season and dropped her where she stood. I'm very happy with the SST's. Actuall I'm shooting the TC Shockwaves which are exactly the same bullet.


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## rzdrmh

the SST is generally regarded as a poor comparison to the XTP, _when considering terminal performance._ the XTP is a tougher bullet - the cannelure seems to help prevent core separation, and has an operating speed that works well up to 2100 fps, maybe a little more.

the SST does not have the "inter-lock" design of the XTP. however, with its plastic tip, you do get a better ballistic coefficient. however, ballistic coefficient gains of the SST do not manifest themselves until you get beyond 200 yards. to push either of these bullets fast enough to make it well beyond that distance would compromise their operating speeds at distances less than that. (ie: at shorter ranges, the bullet would be traveling too fast for reliable performance.)

furthermore, when it comes to saboted bullets, its prudent to have a flat base (XTP) vs. a boattail (SST). flat bases distribute the pressure more evenly on the fragile plastic sabot. consistent, even pressure on the base of the sabot translates to accuracy downrange.

if you're looking for a 200 yard plus muzzleloading bullet, i'd recommend the 245 grain barnes spitfire or the 275 grain barnes XPB. neither the SST or the XTP are good 200 yard plus bullets.

i would recommend the XTP's over the SST's.

jmoser - the SST's and the XTP's should fit the same down your barrel - they are both .451/.452 bullets. my guess is that the supplied sabots are different widths. 0.002" difference will make a smooth loading sabot unloadable. 

sabots make or break a load. most of the hornady's are shipped with MMP sabots, the short black, to be exact. however, you don't know when those sabots were made, and can't be sure who made them. i buy my XTP's in 100 count boxes from the reloading sections, and buy my sabots separately. MMP makes 3 different sabots applicable to .451/.452 bullets. the short black is usually a good combo with the hornady xtp. if they are tight with your bore, you can use the MMP HPH24, which is a little smaller diameter. you'll have to trim the petals on the sabot to the ogive on the bullet (i use fingernail clippers for this.) the MMP HPH12 is the same diameter as the short black sabot, but the HPH sabots are the high pressure sabots - to be used with hot charges.

rugertough - if you decide to get the XTP's, buy in bulk. 100 count box at gander (reloading section) is $14.99. Order online at MMPsabots.com, and get a 50 count bag of .451/.452 short black sabots delivered for $7.


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## rzdrmh

QuakrTrakr said:


> I used to shoot XTP's and switched to SST's because I'm hunting open farm land more where shot's are longer. The XTP's are devastating, but they drop pretty fast after 125 yards or so. I have my gun zero'd at 200 yards shooting 150gr American Pioneer and lofting a 300 gr SST. It hits 6" high at 100 yards and I use the top of the bottom post of my reticle to put me dead on at 250 yards. I hit a doe at 190 yards last ML season and dropped her where she stood. I'm very happy with the SST's. Actuall I'm shooting the TC Shockwaves which are exactly the same bullet.


my XTP's are traveling 2000 fps over the chrono. sighted in 2.7" high at 100 puts them 3" low at 175.


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## QuakrTrakr

Hey RZ, I've bought 45 cal XTPs on sale before (black sabot) by mistake at Wally world. I used to shoot the 44 cal's (green sabot). Also I've tried many different 240 and 250 grain sabots and my gun doesn't like them at ALL! I mean almost a 10" group at 100 yards. I moved up to 300's and it settled in nicely. Most my shots are in the 200 yard range due to the layout of the farm we hunt. I bought some sabots from MMP and I didn't like them. They are a hard plastic and it fits very loose in my Knight.


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## Swamp Monster

rugertough said:


> Can someone tell me the pros and cons between both of these bullets. Currently i'm shooting a 50cal. CVA Kodiak Magnum with 100 grains of pyrodex pellets and a 300 grain SST. I will be hunting mostly in an open field that has a range of probably 250 yards.
> 
> Thanks for any input.


Shoot whatever your gun likes best! I use both in two different guns. I like the 300's over the lighter versions for long range work, and any deer hit well with either the SST or XTP at 200 yards won't know the difference to be honest.


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## rzdrmh

QuakrTrakr said:


> Hey RZ, I've bought 45 cal XTPs on sale before (black sabot) by mistake at Wally world. I used to shoot the 44 cal's (green sabot). Also I've tried many different 240 and 250 grain sabots and my gun doesn't like them at ALL! I mean almost a 10" group at 100 yards. I moved up to 300's and it settled in nicely. Most my shots are in the 200 yard range due to the layout of the farm we hunt. I bought some sabots from MMP and I didn't like them. They are a hard plastic and it fits very loose in my Knight.


the 240 grain XTP's are .429 bullets and are XTP Mags, which from what i have read, give less accurate results.

there is mounting evidence that 300 grains is the ideal muzzleloading bullet weight. has to do with creating the appropriate amount of pressure in the bore to stabilize the bullet, by creating just the right gas seal. the 250 grain XTP's happen to shoot well out of my gun.

quakr - MMP makes many different diameter sabots. my guess is that you had a HPH24 sabot, if it fit loose and was very hard. the black short would be more appropriate.

you want hard sabots, though its not as important with 777 or black powder subs. 100 grains of 777 under a 300 grain bullet generates in the neighborhood of 23,000 psi. whereas, an approximate load of smokeless powder under the same bullet gets you nearly 37-38,000 psi. that's where it gets important.

there also seems to be mounting evidence that the thinner the sabot, the more accurate the bullet. a .458 bullet, such as the sierra, the barnes original, the speer, etc - can be used with the MMP orange sabot, giving very accurate results.

swamp - you might have figured out that i place a great deal of emphasis on penetration. i do not think SST's are as deep penetrating, with more tendency to separate from their core when hitting bone. equally accurate as the XTP's. and given that the SST's are more expensive, its a clear choice to me. with that said, you'd be hard pressed to find a 250-300 grain bullet that won't kill a dieer. if the SST's shoot better out of your gun, i would use them instead of the XTP.

i would also encourage hunters to check out all the 45 cal bullets offered by bullet makers. as muzzleloaders, we have great handgun bullets (such as the XTP's) as well as 45 cal rifle bullets (made by speer, sierra, swift, barnes, etc.) it seems as though the industry is willing to charge quite a bit more $$ because bullets are sold as "muzzleloading bullets". check around and you might find that you can get twice the number of shots by buying bullets and sabots separately, and get high performance bullets as well.


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## QuakrTrakr

rzdrmh said:


> the 240 grain XTP's are .429 bullets and are XTP Mags, which from what i have read, give less accurate results.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Boy, I believe it from what I have seen. As for sabots, I prefer a tighter fit. My Knight has a smaller bore than TC's and most all sabots ( except the MMP I used) fit tight. I like the waterproof capabilities of a tight sabot in late season when moisture is a problem.


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## rzdrmh

quakr - might hunting partner has a knight disc elite. he has excellent (i mean, 1", 5 shot groups) using the 250 grain barnes expander.

the expanders come with the MMP HPH12 sabot, which should make a little tighter fit in your knight. they are not a "rod breaker", but they are snug. and solid copper gives extremely deep penetration.

have you tried those?

i'd recommend determining the bullet diameter, and the type of sabot that fits well in your bore. say, for example you're using a .452 XTP and a short MMP sabot. at least you know what diameter combo makes a good fit in your bore. then you know if you want to try another .452 bullet which sabot you need to use..

i've not tried the harvester crushed rib sabots, but i'm hearing good things about them. have you tried them?


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## QuakrTrakr

No, I haven't tried either. I may just have to now. That is if I can find time before bow season. I made a GREAT investment a couple of weeks ago. I bought a Lead Sled. WOW does that make it nice for shooting that mule.


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## Swamp Monster

rzdrmh said:


> swamp - you might have figured out that i place a great deal of emphasis on penetration. i do not think SST's are as deep penetrating, with more tendency to separate from their core when hitting bone. equally accurate as the XTP's. and given that the SST's are more expensive, its a clear choice to me. with that said, you'd be hard pressed to find a 250-300 grain bullet that won't kill a dieer. if the SST's shoot better out of your gun, i would use them instead of the XTP.
> .


Oh, I agree on the penetration aspect.....and it's more important with muzzleloading than with high powered rifles imo and in my experience. That said, nothing on a deer is even an issue with either XTP's or SST's when it comes to penetration. Blowing through both shoulders well past 200 yards is expected with either of those bullets as long as they are within their working velocity limits at impact. If I were concerned, I'd just spend a few dollars more and get the Bonded versions, but those are not necessary for deer. Elk, now I'd use the bonded version or a different bullet all together.


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## rzdrmh

yes, i'd agree with that assertion, swamp.. 

"Blowing through both shoulders well past 200 yards is expected with either of those bullets as long as they are within their working velocity limits at impact. "

i would agree with that as well, however, i think it pushes the capability of the bullet. not that it can't be a 200 yard bullet, its just that, to get it there with a reasonable amount of trajectory (even for a ML bullet), you've got to push it fast. you could easily push a 250 grain sst 2300-2400 fps with 150 grains of 777, maybe faster. there's the problem. it WOULD be at appropriate operating speeds at longer distances, _after_ its slowed down. however, given that both the XTP and the SST have a max operating speed of around 2100 fps (and the SST's top speed is probably a little less than that), you may have unpredictable results at say, 50, or 75 yards.

i just think that for a 200 yard plus shot, one would be better served with a different bullet. the barnes original .458 is extremely accurate, very very tough, and fits that bill. the knock against that bullet is that it doesn't initiate expansion until 1,500 fps+. so you need to be pushing that bullet at 2,300-2,400 fps from the muzzle, unless you're content with a .45" diameter wound. at $28/50, its getting a little pricey, but not bad.

for long range work, i really want to try the barnes 245 grain spitfire. or the 275 grain XPB. i love the controlled expansion of solid copper. and both those bullets expand at all speeds. but sheez, $20/20 of those XPB's?

anyway, don't get me wrong, i love the hornady lines - i'm shooting the xtp this year, and i think the sst is a fine bullet. and i certainly don't think you need a premium bullet such as the barnes to kill deer. its just that those barnes bullets seem to provide excellent 200 yard accuracy. maybe i need to get some of the .458 sierra's for deer - i get great accuracy out of the gamekings with my '06.. 

and all this talk about operating speeds, etc - sure, all bullets are going to kill deer when you hit them in the body. bullet limitations will not be exposed the majority of the time. however, i like knowing what my bullet is expected to do in all situations.

but to the original point, i give the edge to the XTP. however, i wouldn't hesitate using either, and if the SST shoots better, use it.


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## QuakrTrakr

RZ- I'm just curious, what type of conditions do you hunt? Do you get to shoot 200 yards? Or are you just a gun freak like the rest of us? Cause I see we're not that far apart. Well gotta go. I took today off and have to go get ammo so I can shoot the .204 today! Heading over to Dick Williams!


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## rzdrmh

quakr - yeah, i never was a gun freak, until i started buying guns.. i love to hunt, but i love to shoot guns too.. and i'm really finding that you can wring a lot of accuracy and performance out of mass produced stock rifles!

i hunt up north(alcona) and in shiawassee/clinton county. in alcona, no shot in excess of 200. in clinton, the same. in shiawasse - i've got some spots that could get me well over 200.. my savage muzzleloader is not a 200 yarder "this year", but next year, i'll have that load ready.. ;-)

btw, my .204 has post a .240", 5 shot group using 26.7 grains varget and a 35 grain match berger. pretty tame on the speed side (around 3500 fps) but she's a shooter!


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## QuakrTrakr

rzdrmh said:


> btw, my .204 has post a .240", 5 shot group using 26.7 grains varget and a 35 grain match berger. pretty tame on the speed side (around 3500 fps) but she's a shooter!


WOW! I just got my .204 a couple of weeks ago. It's Remmy VSSF II. Sweet gun. I'm having an issue with it though. I had a gunsmith soften the trigger to 2 3/4#. Ever since, I have 2 POI. IT didn't wander, just 2 POI. Odd. I took it apart and found a good size chunk of a cleaning rag stuck between the reciever and the aluminum bedding block.  I hope this fixes it. I looked for a factory load with the BERGERS, but I can't find any. I'm not a handloader, yet. Mine likes the factory Hornady 40 grainers, and almost as good the Federal 39's with the Sierras in them. What's your .204? A buddy of mine just bought a Savage in 22-250. We have lots of coyotes where we hunt. Gonna try to whack a few after deer season.


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## rzdrmh

just a plain jane NEF handi rifle. i've got a few of those handi's, and for each of them to shoot, i've got to float the forend (as much as you can on those), use a rubber o-ring around the lug, and clean clean clean the barrel as you're breaking it in. and a minimum of 3 minutes between shots. (that's a "best" group with it, it averages .5" pretty easy on sand bags.)

unfortunately, i'm not aware of a factory load using bergers. if i were you, i'd look for a factory load using the 32 grain sierra instead of the 39.

the one thing i can say about those 204's is that they can be finicky. my gun liked varget, but i stuck with it trying to make it work. my hunting partner bought a CZ 530(?) chambered in a 204. it shot those hornady's around 1", which really, is all the accuracy one needs, but.. we worked and worked, tried 3 or 4 powders, and finally got it to shoot 25.5 grains of h322. funny, 25.2 grains shot around 1.5", and 2.5 shoots around .5-.6".

love the 22-250. i'm loading for my buddies tikka varminter 22-250. 36.3 grains of imr-3031 with a 52 grain speer match is getting him .75"@200 yards. very nice, but considering that it is SCREAMING at 3950 fps over the chrono! but then again, that tikka shot ANYTHING under .75"@100. 

i'll say this. i spend far too much time at the range shooting on bags. that's going to end this winter. my guns are where i want them, and its all going to be from sitting/standing/off hand positions.

my buddy should get his FoxPro this week. can't wait to get out for some coyotes!


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## QuakrTrakr

Yup, same here. No ice fishing for me this winter, we'll be dog hunting. I shot my .204 yesterday, and it settled in nicely. I shot about 10 3-shot groups and most had 2 holes touching and a third hole 3/4" high.  Maybe I'll try those 32 grainers too.


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## deputy

you might have figured out that i place a great deal of emphasis on penetration. i do not think SST's are as deep penetrating, 




funny at nearly 300yds in africa on film the sst blew through the shoulder a huge male zebra and just came to rest on the outside layer of the hide on the oposite side i say that that is pretty good penetration... every animal i have shot with the sst has blewn right through it except one doe last year taken at a long long long range under perfect condiotons the xtp kills well to thats for sure but th estt does a great job at long range and short out of my guns


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## rzdrmh

deputy, i'm sure all your sst's blow through deer. good for you, you're hitting them in the right spots.

the conversation was whether the XTP or the SST was better. that's what i was addressing - the XTP's penetrate better than the SST's. is that penetration an issue on michigan whitetails? probably not. but the fact remains. and as far as muzzleloading goes, the SST's do not have a ballistic advantage over the XTP's.

i'm sure there's film of african game being shot with just about every type of caliber and every bullet. that doesn't make it the right bullet for the job.

nothing personal.


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## deputy

rzdrmh said:


> i'm sure there's film of african game being shot with just about every type of caliber and every bullet. that doesn't make it the right bullet for the job.
> 
> nothing personal.



since th eph there were so overly impresse dof the killed performance of the sst at 300yd and in with our guys guns ( that they called almost every ) ph in th earea to see the end results of there perfromance.. the sst vs xtp well when i tested them there was a differance past 150 yds in the ultimates

the xtp kills well thats for sure but to say the sst doesnt penetrate as well. i have tons of dead critters from all over the world that say otherwise....

sure the xtp is a great bullet is it better maybe maybe not but it doest have the bc for longer distance does it vs the sst. or the tradtions extreme bullet......


no issue here with me iam jsut simply asking


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## rzdrmh

nope, i wouldn't be using either bullet for long range work. there are far better choices.

in reality, the dynamic bc of the sst (not the static BC that hornady publishes) is not all that much better than the XTP.

yes, i don't doubt that there was a difference between the XTP and the SST in the ultimates. but if you're using the standard load for the ultimate, you're pushing the bullet faster than it was designed to be pushed. (at least, according to what i've ready from hornady). so that means you've negated the advantages that get past 150 yards.

are we talking about the same things here? is there a bonded version of the SST that you're talking about? cause i've not read of many ph's recommending the SST's. (to be fair, i've not read of many recommending against them either). i'm surprised that many ph's would be recommending a traditional cup and core bullet for big game.

not doubting you, the right shooter can make any bullet work. just wondering.


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## deputy

I agree there are better bullets,


the bonded sst performed so terrible in africa this year wet won tbe using it again
i think it was being pushed to fast 200 grains of t-7 was over 2300fps
not good for that bullet 

the ph's were very impressed of the killing power of the gun load bullet combo
as one comented it killed better than his 375

the standard sst has racked up quite a record for a lot of ultimate shooters great accuracy and the terminal performance has been brutual to say the least but i agree there are better bullets out there from barnes and others.... barnes has made a limited run t-e bullet for the ultimate we shall see how it does..............


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## rzdrmh

barnes has an impressive offering. and the penetration on their bullets is simply outstanding.. 

just wish they weren't so expensive!

and so limited! wanted to try some xpb's, and they must do pretty limited runs because they are always out of stock, it seems.


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