# 2 ephron pattern questions



## efw (Aug 7, 2003)

I'm hitting the Grayling area next weekend, going to be concentrating on the headwaters of the Man but wanted to bring along some white millers just in case I decide to hit the Au Sable. I have three quick questions-

What size(s) should I tie them in? I was assuming 14/16 but you know the saying about assumptions.

What color is the fly really, white or cream?

What color do you tie the tails in, white or other? I have white fibbets.

Thanks for any help! 

God bless y'all,

efw


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## Todder (Dec 3, 2002)

The White Miller is tied on a standard dry fly hook (Tiemco 100) in sizes 8 - 14. White thread. White hackle fiber tails. Dirty white fur dubbling blend. White duck quill wings tied upright and divided. And finally 4 to 6 turns of white dry fly quality hackle. This is taken from _Mayflies_ by Knopp and Cormier. They also suggest trying the White Wulff in the same sizes. It is tied similarly to the White Miller but with a white calf tail wings and tail, and white badger hackle.


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## SALMONATOR (Jan 7, 2003)

You might be a touch early on the Upper Mann', but I haven't been up there in a couple weeks. Mio is a sweet place to catch the hatch, if not now, soon.

Other than that, the ones I've seen are WHITE. I'm sure you could probably catch fish on most light colered flies in the #12-14 ballpark, but if you want to tye a fly to spacifically imiitate these flies, go white on everything from head to tail.

I've also seen a bunch of these flies flying around trailing their cases. Almost look like doubles. I've always meant to try that variation in those flies also. Good luck.

Al


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Todder,

Being a novice in the fly arena this may be a silly question, but I was under the impression that a white Miller is actually a caddis with a typical caddis wing (swept back) and the ephoron more of a traditional mayfly.


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## Jackster1 (Aug 17, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Shoeman _
> *Todder,
> 
> Being a novice in the fly arena this may be a silly question, but I was under the impression that a white Miller is actually a caddis with a typical caddis wing (swept back) and the ephoron more of a traditional mayfly. *


I think the White Miller is actually a moth and the ephron is indeed a white mayfly.

Here's a good link to one: http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/fotw2/062501fotw.html

Todder, someone better tell Ms. Miller at Miller Marina in S.C.S. she is mistaken. Her whole logo is based on a moth!


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## Todder (Dec 3, 2002)

Shoeman,

I had actually never hear of the White Miller before this thread (ha...who the bigger novice now? ) . I looked it up in a book and it is in fact a mayfly.

Here is a link to read more about it:
http://www.dnr.state.md.us/fisheries/fishingreport/whitemiller.html


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

On the BBT emergence schedule the White Miller is described as a caddis.

Hmmmmm.

http://www.fishbaldwin.com/LocalInfo/EmSchedule/EmSchedule.cfm


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## Jackster1 (Aug 17, 2001)

This could get interesting!
http://www.thomasames.com/insects/caddis/miller.htm


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Yup, those are the ones that have been glued to my shop window for the last few weeks.


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## Todder (Dec 3, 2002)

All the patterns I found doing a google search were mayflies:

http://www.kensawada.com/pub/pattern_book/014_whitemiller.html
http://www.flydealer.com/354a-da.html
http://www.geocities.com/estesparkflyshop/whitemiller.htm
http://www.virtualflybox.com/patterns/pattern.php?id=567

Both BBT's and the Troutbums's hatch charts show a White Miller Caddis. But no pattern info. It seems the only state that gets these caddises is Michigan. Maybe it is an albino strain of another caddis.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

LOL

I bet efw is as confused as the rest of us.  

Knockoff, Riverboy and I have taken advantage of these Millers for the last month. Patterns really didn't matter, as long as it was white...  

Knockoff was using an Airhead, which is a fly with some packing foam for a swept wing. I did well on a mini spey like wet in white and Scott did well fishing a white dry. 

Good thing the fish don't know the difference either.


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## riverboy (Mar 20, 2002)

When I hit that white fly hatch I wasnt sure what they where. It was around mid july when I got into it. I thought ephrons but I thought it was way to early for those. So it must have been a white miller hatch then eh? I used a fly that I would typically use below Mio this time of year, and did very well. The hatch started right at dusk and contuined untill it was pretty dark. Within 45 minutes or so I caught and release several nice rainbows, cant remember how many because the action was pretty fast and furious for a little while. I was yelling for Shoeman to come join me but I looked up the hill and seen the inside lights of his RV turned on. I thought man he's missing out, but he took me to school during the day on nymphs and wets anyways.


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## Beaglernr (Dec 1, 2002)

Ephrons, I have seen them from size 16 to size 10s...you can not make your flies white enouph they almost have a blue-white look.
Keep in mind, Ephrons swim to the surface..pop out of the shuck fast and float a very short distance then take to air..I have found..had there they start flying up and down the river about two feet off the surface and will molt in flight and you will have a spinner fall within a hour of the start of the hatch.
I carry with me:
Prince nymphs: no idea why but it seems to work well before a hatch.
White emerger..something that looks stuck sizes 12 seem to be a good compromise.
White dun..I like a parachute, still looking for the ultimate pattern. 
Whtie spinner..
Oversize white spinner I mean like a 10 or 8
Sometimes large white wulff works and believe it or not..
At times if you have a blanket hatch/spinner fall a huge fly seems to stand out.

Keep your mouth shut when your head light is on, these flies are unbelievably attracted to light and you will be coverd in seconds.

This year I played with a mini bugger in white.
Size 10 2xl hook..white marabou tail, white chenille body. Very simple but I did quite well on bass pre-hatch with this.

Good luck


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Dave,

Since I plan on fishing below Mio for the tail end of September, what would you consider the nymphal and emerging stage of the ephoron? Is the prince my best shot or would a small pheasant tail or hare's ear be the ticket? 

I found the "white fly" in one of my hatch guides, but it doesn't mention the nymph.


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## Beaglernr (Dec 1, 2002)

Shoe, from a old memory (I have no refernce books nearby right now) we found nymphs which were dirty white with orangish thorax about size 12s. We tied some up but my one bud did better with those prince nymphs so we just started fishing them and have had pretty good sucess here on the Huron.

I am not positive if the fish are taking them as Ephrons or if there is a caddis hatching at the same time that is mask by the whites.

I will try and remember to pull out a few books and double check tonight. I would not be afraid to try a double nymph rig, prince and something else to see if the trout prefer on over the other you may help key in on what nymphs work up there. Sure would like to hear back what you find. 

Note, at one time I was known to fish a white dry with a nymph dropper. I would do this early on and just cut off the dropper when they started to take the dry 80 percent of the time. Lately I have just fished one or the other I guess lazy in old age.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Been using them quite a bit. 
It sure helps when trying to find what works. 

The Prince was one of my favorites in the Spring/early Summer. After that I couldn't buy a hit on one. I switched over to a pheasant tail and that was the key. Especially the tung-head fished deep. Now they're starting to avoid it and taking small ants and soft hackles fished in the riffles. It must be an oxygen thing. 
One day I'll figure it out. 

Thanks for all your help. Maybe we can float sometime.


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## efw (Aug 7, 2003)

Ok so here is what I have, let me make sure I understand y'all correctly (because I am indeed confused!).

I'll want downwing patterns (white millers) in larger sizes, 8-12. I'll want white mayfly patterns in what I'd call medium sizes, 12-16.

I have cream dubbing, cream turkey flats (winging material?), cream hackle, and white fibs. Is this sufficient (I heard "dirty white" tossed around a lot) for the white miller?I have some white dubbing and white high vis for the ephrons.

I talked to a guy at my local fly shop who said I should try red fibs or hackle fibers for the tail on the ephoron just to be different, that he has tried this in heavier hatches and found it effective- have any of you tried such a thing at all? Gotten results with 'em?

Thanks for all your help guys!

God bless and tight lines,

efw


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## SALMONATOR (Jan 7, 2003)

efw,

I've heard both flies call "white millers" too, but as I've always understood it the "white miller" is a caddis fly. True, they may be around too this time of year (they are known to hatch all summer starting in May), the big evening hatches of Ephrons are the white mayflies. The ones I've encountered have generally been between 12-14, however I'm sure having a size either side of that may be a good idea if you have the time to tie several sizes. Again, Off white colors should work just fine in a pinch, but the natural flies I've seen have been as white as snow. Good luck.

Al


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## Old Steelhead Dude (Jan 5, 2003)

Its a Mayfly


http://www.dnr.state.md.us/fisheries/fishingreport/whitemiller.html


OSD.


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## SALMONATOR (Jan 7, 2003)

Guess it all depends on where you look. In the book "Selective Trout" by Doug Swisher and Carl Richards, The mayfly species Ephron Album and Ephron Leukon are listed under the common name of White Fly. The caddis species Nectopsyche Albida and Nectopsyche Exquisita are listed under te common name of White Miller. Crazy eh?

Al


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