# Stop over the counter May permits in NLP



## beer and nuts (Jan 2, 2001)

In my area of Roscommon/Crawford have watched the turkey flocks slowly decrease since the month long May hunts, and over the counter permits for everybody. This year there are so few good flocks, numbers are very low. The DNR needs to evaluate the over the counter sales. not only me, many of good long time hunters saying the same thing. what is are you seeing in northern Michigan??? maybe its just this area!?


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

beer and nuts said:


> In my area of Roscommon/Crawford have watched the turkey flocks slowly decrease since the month long May hunts, and over the counter permits for everybody. This year there are so few good flocks, numbers are very low. The DNR needs to evaluate the over the counter sales. not only me, many of good long time hunters saying the same thing. what is are you seeing in northern Michigan??? maybe its just this area!?


We have seen a decrease in bird numbers but I am sure it is not because of hunting Toms after the bulk of the breeding is done. Predidation and lack of winter feeding I believe is the reason. Before the deer feeding ban there use to be a lot of feeding both deer and turkey in this area. On one farm in the family use to winter over a hundred + birds but since there is no livestock being fed outside there is no winter feed for the birds. Seeing birds on this farm is now rare.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

beer and nuts said:


> In my area of Roscommon/Crawford have watched the turkey flocks slowly decrease since the month long May hunts, and over the counter permits for everybody. This year there are so few good flocks, numbers are very low. The DNR needs to evaluate the over the counter sales. not only me, many of good long time hunters saying the same thing. what is are you seeing in northern Michigan??? maybe its just this area!?


Your observations are correct for your area. Look at the turkey hunting report from 2015. Crawford roscommon and lake counties are the worst success rate in the state. Everyone else seems to be doing just fine and they have may hunting. I am not sure what the issue is exactly..... but It really makes me wonder if tens of thousands of acres that are being cut down and planted as jackpines for kirtland warblers may have some affect. The trees are cut and replanted before they get anywhere near large enough for a turkey to roost. They wipe out square miles at a time.

This is just a thought. There has to be some reason the other counties in the northern areas are doing well and those 3 are suffering.


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## beer and nuts (Jan 2, 2001)

More pressure on the birds, more people hunt turkeys with so much stateland in these 3 counties???

I know Benzie co, buddy over there says, so few people actually hunt turkeys...and he while not a turkey hunter says he sees lots of birds. But private holds a ton of birds there..orchard country.

I don't know, but it has gotten steadily worse that is for sure.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

I don't see how a male only season can dramatically reduce the population to levels to low the allow OTC permits. There are other factors in play and it isn't hunting pressure on the male segment.


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

Before the feeding ban there was a large effort to winter the turkeys. The turkey federation guys use to bring several hundred pounds of corn to my father in-laws when he was alive. He fed and he also made trails and packed feeding areas with a big tractor and duals where others fed. Several neighbors fed and had hundreds of turkeys through the winter. My father in-law fed sheep grain on pasture and the turkeys would come running when you headed back with the tractor or dozer to feed sheep. This is all gone and the birds are left to mother natures care, she can be a bitch some winters.


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

plugger said:


> Before the feeding ban there was a large effort to winter the turkeys. The turkey federation guys use to bring several hundred pounds of corn to my father in-laws when he was alive. He fed and he also made trails and packed feeding areas with a big tractor and duals where others fed. Several neighbors fed and had hundreds of turkeys through the winter. My father in-law fed sheep grain on pasture and the turkeys would come running when you headed back with the tractor or dozer to feed sheep. This is all gone and the birds are left to mother natures care, she can be a bitch some winters.


Same deal, exactly, up here, Mike. Leelanau, Benzie, Antrim, et al. Our local gun club fed turkeys in the winter, NWTF did too, and many local country folks hereabouts also. A local farmer across the road from our hunting property down your way fed 100+ turkeys every winter. We helped out with NWTF corn. That's all gone now.

Then the record setting (really bad) winters of '13 and '14 added their toll for sure. Public land birds this year are a shadow of the populations around year 2000. More birds survive around bird feeders than anything.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

NATTY BUMPO said:


> Same deal, exactly, up here, Mike. Leelanau, Benzie, Antrim, et al. Our local gun club fed turkeys in the winter, NWTF did too, and many local country folks hereabouts also. A local farmer across the road from our hunting property down your way fed 100+ turkeys every winter. We helped out with NWTF corn. That's all gone now.
> 
> Then the record setting (really bad) winters of '13 and '14 added their toll for sure. Public land birds this year are a shadow of the populations around year 2000. More birds survive around bird feeders than anything.


Lelanau had the best success rate in the state at 63%.


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

DirtySteve said:


> Lelanau had the best success rate in the state at 63%.


OK DS, where do _you live??
_
HINT: _Everyone, _except you, has given MS their home town.


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## tdduckman (Jan 17, 2001)

I would not support getting rid of the 234 tags being purchased in May, in fact my daughter is going to buy one tomorrow so we can go up on a one day hunt this weekend. She did not think she had the time this year and a day opened up.

TD


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

NATTY BUMPO said:


> OK DS, where do _you live??
> _
> HINT: _Everyone, _except you, has given MS their home town.


I am from lapeer county.... dryden specifically. I have a place in St helen. I hunt near my home in attica twp, hadley twp. I also hunt state land in roscommon and crawford county routinely.

If you are suggesting my profile isn't filled out I am not certain the reason why. I am quite sure I have done it in the past. I don't even get an option for it with the app on my phone.


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## R.J.M. (Jun 10, 2007)

How about stoping the fall hunt for a few years let a lot of areas get the flock #s back up


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## cstroh (Jan 3, 2013)

IMO predation is a big cause, last year I watched a hen start off with 13 chicks and in 2 weeks time had only 1 left. I dust every yote I see. but everything loves "thunder chicken"


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## R.J.M. (Jun 10, 2007)

Seams like now I see a lone hen and then I'll see a **** in the same area with in a day or two


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

R.J.M. said:


> How about stoping the fall hunt for a few years let a lot of areas get the flock #s back up


That would cost the DNR money



cstroh said:


> IMO predation is a big cause, last year I watched a hen start off with 13 chicks and in 2 weeks time had only 1 left. I dust every yote I see. but everything loves "thunder chicken"


It is going to get worse with the fall of fur prices.


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## hammerdown (Sep 28, 2011)

its not a problem at all there are so dan many down here in the south we should be able to kill 2 or three a spring not 1. ithink its just your area bud


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## wolfgang510 (Feb 15, 2001)

I gave up hunting in the NLP public land a few years ago. Way too much pressure. I ran into hunters all the time and witnessed several episodes of road hunting. Not only are the numbers low but the hunting pressure makes the birds hide and much more difficult to hunt. OTC public land turkey does not make sense to me.


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## DEDGOOSE (Jan 19, 2007)

I am not that far from you and the last four years I have seen a very nice rebound. Not 2000 type numbers but definitely improvement, from the bad years.


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

What gets me is that if you draw one of the earlier one week hunts and some thing happens that you change your mind it sounds like you can go buy a 234 tag. You have taken a tag away from some one else for one of the early hunts and then you do not use it but can go buy a 234 instead. Kind of lame to me.


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## Feather Mucker (Nov 9, 2007)

multibeard said:


> What gets me is that if you draw one of the earlier one week hunts and some thing happens that you change your mind it sounds like you can go buy a 234 tag. You have taken a tag away from some one else for one of the early hunts and then you do not use it but can go buy a 234 instead. Kind of lame to me.


Wouldn't that tag end up in the leftovers for that zone if it wasn't purchased by the drop dead date (this year it was March 15)?


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