# Check-out thread on T-MAN



## hubbarj (Jan 30, 2007)

uptracker said:


> On top of this all:
> 
> I've talked to a lot of bear houndsman in the woods. Many times, the owner of the dogs doesn't even have a tag. He just likes running his dogs for whoever holds tag. Same thing with bobcats. The owner of the dogs either has one or two tags to fill depending on location. After that, they take out every tom, dick and harry to go shoot a cat. In the end, instead of one or two cats being shot, it could end up being 10, 20, 30+....in a single area. Paid or not (in terms of guiding), it's still using a finicky resource that may already be on the low end of population densities.
> 
> It's like an area that has only 20 deer per square mile. 10 hunters hunt in a section of only 20 deer per square mile and all fill two doe tags. What's next? Zero deer?........


Are you saying that if I don't have a tag I shouldn't be allowed to run my dogs? I have never filled both my tag in a year and have only ever shot one cat. I have trapped qite a few. I truely do it because I like to run dogs. I don't care if I shoot a cat. I may take 1 or 2 friends usually the same ones. I don't care is they take a cat either, if they do I will ask to not take it if it is a small one. 

John


----------



## hubbarj (Jan 30, 2007)

FMann said:


> Joe thanks for your input and wisdom on this matter and what your doing by going to these meetings. I personaly appreciate it very much and wish I could attend these meetings myself! I relieze you and several others on this forum do more for US trappers in a week then most of us will do in several years or our lives.
> 
> What I was trying to get across in my eariler post is if your not happy talk to the people that can get it changed! Like the hound hunters DID!
> 
> ...


Thanks again Fmann, I would appriciate it if people wouldn't lump all houndsmen together. There are many houndsmen/trapper that will not join and have quit the MBHA over this issue, just remeber that when you start bashing hound hunters. Many of us hound hunters feel the same way you guys do about the commercial guiding on public land and we are try to do something about it. If any of you would like to help or have any ideas feel free to contact me. There are a few others on these boards that have allready got the ball rolling lets see if we can get something done.

John


----------



## Rustyaxecamp (Mar 1, 2005)

FMann - It's a pretty well known fact that MBHA is for the most part controlled by houndsmen.


Also, why the big difference is season lengths for trapping vs hounds?

FWIW - I have no problem with hound hunting and would love to try it, however I DO have an issue with all the flack that houndsmen give trapping.


----------



## uptracker (Jul 27, 2004)

hubbarj said:


> Are you saying that if I don't have a tag I shouldn't be allowed to run my dogs? I have never filled both my tag in a year and have only ever shot one cat. I have trapped qite a few. I truely do it because I like to run dogs. I don't care if I shoot a cat. I may take 1 or 2 friends usually the same ones. I don't care is they take a cat either, if they do I will ask to not take it if it is a small one.
> 
> John


Personally, I'd like to try hound hunting too, BUT, I don't agree with people running their dogs so everyone else can shoot a cat that they can't get by trapping or calling. IMO, if you have dogs, you should only be able to run them for your benefit, not the benefit of 2-30 other guys so they can also harvest a cat.

I buy my own traps, DVD's, lures, books, etc. I may or may not get a cat in a given year, but I don't take out those 2-30 more guys and set a trap for them so they can overharvest an area. So these other guys need to buy their own dogs and use their own dogs if they want to shoot a cat over dogs.

All the other info needed is in my post above.


----------



## LarryA (Jun 16, 2004)

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/2006_Bobcat_report_3474_212048_7.pdf

The above is the 2006 Bobcat report. I get the feeling that many people believe that bobcat hunting with hounds is much more successful than it really is. Hound hunting only resulted in 23% of the total harvest statewide, and 8% of those reported using a guide service. 

I can see from those numbers why the DNR is hesitant to institute a new system. That works out to only affect about 68 cats out of 850 cats harvested. Whether that is right or wrong I don't know, but believe those numbers are something to think about and helps put the issue into perspective.

I just thought the above report would present some factual input to the discussion.

That aside, I am glad there is now a trapping season in the L.P., and I look forward to my sons and I pursuing a cat in the future.


----------



## hubbarj (Jan 30, 2007)

I would believe that those numbers are correct. Having done both for quite a few years I know that trapping is a much more effective way to take a cat even if you have outstanding cat dogs. With both the hardest part is locating one.

John


----------



## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Thanks Larry, some good info. Immediately these number jump out at me:

_An estimated 1,903 people attempted to hunt bobcats and spent
19,188 days hunting and registered 386 bobcats. Nearly 1,103 people attempted to trap bobcats and spent nearly 32,285 days trapping and registered 560 bobcats._

Nearly twice as many hunters spent less than half the time as the trappers with a longer season  Something doesn't jive.

I wonder if the trapper number were computed by traps per day??

Last thing that is interesting is hours per animal, hunting=49.7 hrs/cat trapping 57.7 hrs/cat

Edit
Now that I'm sifting through this, I see that 111 cats were released from traps but I see no number that the hunters let go?


----------



## griffondog (Dec 27, 2005)

The numbers listed for released Bobcats from traps is not a accurate number. It's the number released by trappers who had a tag for bobcats. All cats released by non-tag holders is not on there. 

Griff


----------



## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Interesting posts. Freepop, please don't take this the wrong way. I'm not slamming you, but here's another perspective...hours spent, but with a hound hunting a cat is manhours hunting. The trap's on the job 24/7 and most times not as labor intensive as snowshowing around on some of these long races. A lot of the hound guy's...thanks to the internet are just finding out how sleezy some hound operations are. A lot of us are in it for the dog work. We are not your enemy...we're on your side. Bobcats are the most elusive of all varmints when it comes to hound hunting. The way they'll run up blowdowns then jump off in another direction, and the weak scent they give off gives a hound fits. Often times when they do tree they leap to the tree...no scent on the tree at the hound's level. Dogs that can locate a cat treed in big conifers on a fairly regular basis are few and far between. 

As stated in an earlier post...guiding is out of control in this state. This is not the Idaho wilderness and the DNR needs to recognize the negative impact we have been putting up with for way too long. Anybody that's serious about fixing this mess, please send an email to your state representative and state senator and tell them to get it licensed and regulated. Matter of fact, the legislature ought to place a moritorium on all guiding (related to hunting) until the DNR has a process in place regulating and licensing it. We'd probably get whiplash they'd jump on it so quick!


----------



## David G Duncan (Mar 26, 2000)

Good point Griff.

I has not been uncommon for me to release 2 or 3 bobcats from coyote traps each fall, in the previous 3 or 4 trapping seasons.

I personally know several other local trappers that have had a similar experience regarding releasing of Bobcats.

In fact the Bobcat featured in the photo in this heading was a Bobcat that I released from a coyote trap.

This year I did not run a coyote trapline.


----------



## PaulMoseley (Jan 11, 2009)

I strongly encourage all of you to stand up for your hunting rights, even if it's not your type of hunting.......stick together! I live in Washington State (originally from Michigan) and we have had a lot of our rights taken away from us in the past few years. Hound hunting is no longer allowed in our state (except game birds) and now the cougar population has exploded. Trapping is dam near impossible to do anymore. You need to take a special calss that is held on a weekday on the other side of the state once a year to get a trapping license. So if you work a regular job, your odds of making the class are slim. You almost have to be a lawyer to figure out any of the hunting/fishing/trapping regs in this state. Many have given up all together because it is so easy to get a fine from the Fish & Game department.

Unite & fight for your rights!!

Paul


----------

