# cougar on bear bait near marquette



## mydogisscout (Jun 24, 2005)

My dad's group just got back from a bear hunt near marquette. out of 8 hunters, they killed 5 bears all in the 175-250# range. They also saw 2 wolves, 1 moose and two different hunters saw cougars on thier baits, one of them got pics. If I can get ahold of them, I'll post 'em.


----------



## Gobblerman (Dec 19, 2004)

The only way you'll have believers is with pictures, hopefully they turned out.


----------



## FASTRNU (Jul 2, 2002)

The non believers will say the pics weren't taken in Michigan. I still hope to see them posted.


----------



## Big50blaster (Feb 4, 2005)

I hopes ya can git them pics posted. Id like ta see em. If ya dont post em know one will beleive anyone saw it.


----------



## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Naw, we'll just say that they may not be wild! :lol: (or originaly wild anyway)


Yeah, post pics. We had someone claim video footage once. Course it was never posted...........


----------



## Dedge (Sep 22, 2004)

Yeah post the pics. I would love to see them. Marquette is only about 100 miles from here.

Dan


----------



## KEN C (Oct 28, 2002)

HMMM! why would a cougar be at a bear bait? Thats the really odd thing. Cougars do not eat garbage the catch and kill there prey. Cougar with a big appetite for bread and donuts! maybe a little bacon grease mixed in for good measure.

Tell your friend to be sure ahttp://www.michigandnr.com/observationReports/feline_obs.aspnd report the sighting at the following link.


----------



## Big50blaster (Feb 4, 2005)

KEN C said:


> HMMM! why would a cougar be at a bear bait? Thats the really odd thing. Cougars do not eat garbage the catch and kill there prey. Cougar with a big appetite for bread and donuts! maybe a little bacon grease mixed in for good measure.


 
cats does eat dead things that they find. they aint fraid to eat roadkill or other dead things they find. just ask trappers what there bait concocktions smells like that they uses to git bobcats trapped with.:yikes:


----------



## luv 2 bowhunt (Mar 27, 2005)

Also a bear bait is a site for raccons, squirrels, birds, etc.
What better place for a cougar to "hunt".


----------



## Wizard3686 (Aug 30, 2005)

Well im not to sure about the marquette but when i lived up in baraga county we had one once on our land it came in and attacked a horse we did think it was a cougar but dnr was out there for 3 days lookin for track and that and the found them and said it was well one night we were checkeing the horses and cowns and all the anmials with a spot light and there was a cougar layin on top of our chicken coop the Dnr gave us sum flash rounds for the 12 gauge and told us if we seen him fire one off it scared him away not sure if he ever came back i move


My uncle has seen a couple while he was driving they ran across the road so yes i do beleave they are up there just would like to see one up close and get a pic of it


----------



## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

It must have been one of those spayed or neutered cougars. Michigan does not have a breeding cougar population. :lol:


----------



## hypox (Jan 23, 2000)

Luv2hunteup said:


> It must have been one of those spayed or neutered cougars. Michigan does not have a breeding cougar population. :lol:


That damn Bob Barker!


----------



## Big Game (Feb 7, 2002)

According to the track survey of the entire U.P. they failed to find a single track. 

Federal and state biologists surveyed 8298 miles of roads and two tracks during the winter of 2003 & 2004. They were mainly focusing on wolf tracks but all tracks were recorded. Not a single lion track was found. These surveys have been conducted yearly during 1996 and not ever was a cougar track found. A similar survey done in Wisconsin also failed to turn up any tracks.


----------



## hypox (Jan 23, 2000)

How many wolverine tracks did they record?



Big Game said:


> According to the track survey of the entire U.P. they failed to find a single track.
> 
> Federal and state biologists surveyed 8298 miles of roads and two tracks during the winter of 2003 & 2004. They were mainly focusing on wolf tracks but all tracks were recorded. Not a single lion track was found. These surveys have been conducted yearly during 1996 and not ever was a cougar track found. A similar survey done in Wisconsin also failed to turn up any tracks.


----------



## jk hillsdale (Dec 7, 2002)

hypox said:


> That damn Bob Barker!


LOL - Solid!!!


----------



## kitchue (Sep 25, 2001)

A little "friskers" can food in the bait pile will do wonders. Ya can smell it for miles. 

I thought the UP didnt have a phesent population until one walked out in front of me at the cabin. A wolverine in the thumb. Wolves in the LP. A pelican in Muskegeon. Maybe they are just lost and cant find where the dnr say they are supposed to be. Then again the dnr are now saying things they wouldnt have 2 years ago.

sean


----------



## huntswbow (Aug 10, 2005)




----------



## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

kitchue said:


> A little "friskers" can food in the bait pile will do wonders. Ya can smell it for miles.
> 
> Then again the dnr are now saying things they wouldnt have 2 years ago.
> 
> sean


You have a pretty good nose! Or did the cat you talked to relay that info back to you directly? 

Just what are the DNR saying today that they would not have 2 years ago? 



Those comments in your post don't happen to be exagerations do they?


----------



## kitchue (Sep 25, 2001)

Swamp Monster said:


> You have a pretty good nose! Or did the cat you talked to relay that info back to you directly?
> 
> Just what are the DNR saying today that they would not have 2 years ago?
> 
> ...


Up until Woods and Water did a story on a wolverine the dnr said there weren't any in michigan. Untill there was a little insert in the publication, "michigan out of doors" about a pelican sighting the dnr said it was improbable. Until someone trapped a wolf in the LP did the DNR say there were no wolfves south of the bridge. Until there is proof that someone has proved the DNR wrong they stick to their biologist findings. Whoes to say theres isent a cougar in the UP. At least not until theres proof. Ok maybe not 2 years how about 5. I'm not DNR bashing at all, the proof is how biologist, CO and such will change their minds. But because sometimes, a hunter, fisherman, birdwatcher finds out otherwise, whose to say there is not a cougar somewhere in the UP. wild or escaped. 

I dont believe michigan waters have the snakehead yet. But more than likely, we do. But no one has proved it yet either.

Canned cat food, ya an exageration, but have a smelled the stuff. :tdo12:

sean


----------



## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

kitchue said:


> Canned cat food, ya an exageration, but have a smelled the stuff. :tdo12:
> 
> sean


Oh yeah! :lol: :lol: 

I agree with you about the DNR, we don't know until there is positive ID. I appreciate the clarification. I thought maybe you were going in a different direction with it, my apologies!


(I'm still not sure I'd claim Mi is home to penguins or Wolverines, we know of one of each for sure, though I'll assume the penguin was temporary?)


----------



## slayer (Jun 1, 2002)

WELL I GUESS HE COULDN'T FIND THE PIC'S HUH ????? GO FIGURE !!!!!! :gaga:


----------



## kitchue (Sep 25, 2001)

Swamp Monster said:


> (I'm still not sure I'd claim Mi is home to penguins or Wolverines, we know of one of each for sure, though I'll assume the penguin was temporary?)


Yeah definately. Nature is a strange and great thing that sometime gets confused. I hope the pelican was a strange oddity and doesnt become a normal sight in michigan. Seagull crap is hard enough to wash of the deck.


----------



## BVW (Jul 25, 2002)

I can't believe some of you guys actually believe this story  I guess if you believe this story then i can see why you think we have cougars here. It all makes sense to me know. I think Mydogscout was a victim of dad's ole Bear camp prank, i bet they went snipe hunting right after their stories.
So if Cougars hit bait piles, which i am not saying isn't possible... that means nobody has trapped one in over 100 years with all the trappers out there?? Expalin this one ole' great Michigan Cougar experts? How about when bear hunters run their dogs off bait? why haven't they been on a Cougar track yet? These things like trapping are done all the time and have NEVER turned up a Lion and should if there are enough cats to breed and continue to reproduce! But someone tells a story which makes the Cougars very exposed and not concerned from the human scent which would be all over the bait pile and you think that makes more sense than one never being trapped or tracked????  If these guys did see something on the bait it may have been a few bobcat at best and they don't know any better, this makes more sense than 2 different guys see Cougars at the bait pile durring daylight. Even though there is 100 years of no-evidence of Cougars in Michigan, one kid posts about 2 different guys seeing them hit a bait pile and you guys are all in like you had seen it yourself. I guess it does not take much to convince people if they really want to believe it. 
What if the MWC got enough non-hunters support and closed your only hunting and camping land so the fantasy cougars could have a "breeding habitat" even though there has never even been a track recorded in the area? i think these so-called sightings would not seem so believable anymore, and most of you would look at the facts instead of basing your beliefs on these false reports , house cats on video, and cougars in Detroit..
but keep the faith Michigan Cougar huggers :help:


----------



## wyle_e_coyote (Aug 13, 2004)

Here we go again!
If that cat is so frequent in the area, and coming to bear baits I would suggest a report to the DNR. Let them get a houndsman,with some good cat hounds. Have them put it up a tree, stick it with a dart and find out if it's wild. Simply!!!!
Why is it the first thing people do is tell all there friends and post it on the internet? Call the DNR! 
Sorry, I'm with Big Game on the track survey.
I can't wait for the pic. My guess is it will be the pic of the Cougar stalking a Whitetail/Elk/Mule deer, or whatever pasted in. You know the one that has been posted a billion times. Only this time someone will past in a 50 gallon barrel...:lol:


----------



## mydogisscout (Jun 24, 2005)

What is the range of a wild cougar??? 200 miles? more? If wisconsin, (that now readily admits to having a breeding population of cougars) has them, why would it be so hard to believe they would cross into michigan? #1. #2,as soon as this hunter sends the pics to my dad, I WILL post them. I don't want guys that think it's impossible for them to be here to feel like I'm trying to get you to believe I fell for a prank. #3 this KID has hunted bears since he was 14 in michigan and Washington state, that's 18 years. maybe the KID knows somewhat what he's talking about. I can't vouch for the reputation nor the experience of the "hunter" mainly because I don't know him, and secondly because I know the types of people that come to a guide service because they are to green to go out and bait themselves. But I DO know my dad, we've hunted together since I was little, and he doesn't "prank" in bear camp, deer camp, or otherwise.


----------



## slayer (Jun 1, 2002)

All we want to know is the paste dry on the pic yet ?????? ROFLMFAO !!!!!!


----------



## BVW (Jul 25, 2002)

I just thought you were a Kid because of the claim you made, sorry. So two guys saw 2 cougars? same night or different night? same bait different bait? what time of the day, they kept their composure to get a pic? Just relieze if this is true and you have pics of Cougars on bait piles near marquette than those guys are the first to do it EVER! 
I 'll just wait for the pics, when are ya posting them again? 
In the mean time lets hear some more details.. Like did your pa's buddies just leave the woods after the Cougar's left? How long were they there? Has the guide that runs the bait seen cougars before? does he use trail cameras? did this make the local news yet? just the little things to make us not so skeptical because you must understand that this has been pulled before. But at least you must understand the magnitude of your statement? and i guess that you have not been around this forum much and see how we love to debate this magical cougars topic.
sorry for calling you a kid, your probably older than I.
Was this your dad's hunting group?


----------



## KEN C (Oct 28, 2002)

Minnesota is adjacent to South Dakota with a documented population expanding in the Black Hills. It is also adjacent to North Dakota, which has also had a large number of confirmations in recent years, likely also transients expanding eastward from Montana, Wyoming and the Black Hills population. Additionally, Minnesota has substantial forest cover that is favored habitat for cougar. Not surprisingly, The Cougar Network has documented a significant number of confirmations in Minnesota. Some DNR wildlife officials speculate that there may be a small wild population of cougars in Minnesota. "We're fairly confident there is some level of wild population out there," said Rich Staffon, DNR Duluth/Cloquet area wildlife manager. "But, their territories are so big that we don't know how many and even when they are around, they are so secretive you don't usually know they are around." 

Ontario, the Canadian province just north of the upper Midwest states, has had one Class II confirmation in the southwest corner of the province. However, credible sightings are so prevalent that some provincial wildlife authorities believe there is a population in the province. In a Toronto Star article in July, 2000, Rick Gollat of the provincial Ministry of Natural Resources in Thunder Bay said, "I know there is a population of cougars just by the sheer distribution of sightings." Thunder Bay is in a sparsely populated area on the north shore of Lake Superior not far from the Minnesota border. 

*Wisconsin has had a number of sightings, but no confirmations. The Wisconsin DNR believes there may be occasional transients in the state. * 


Conclusions 
The Upper Midwest region is the most favorable corridor for cougars repopulating the east. It has a sparse population, heavy forest cover, and a high prey population in the form of deer, wild turkey, beaver, and even moose (there are reports of cougar taking moose fawns). Whitetail deer numbers in the region are at historic highs and they occur in areas where they were historically absent prior to the early 1900s. It is interesting to note that wolves, another top predator, were never extirpated from the region indicating a historic supply of prey and a habitat that was suitable. Additionally, there is no huge river barrier such as the Mississippi, which is present further south, to inhibit migration. There is a possible analogy to the origin of the eastern coyote (at least to the northeast). Although it is not known definitively, it is hypothesized that the origin of the much larger eastern coyote in the northeastern states was through Canada (Ontario and Quebec) where it hybridized with wolves and then migrated into upstate New York and New England. It is possible that the cougar is following a similar path to the northeastern U. S.


----------



## GUN HO (Sep 19, 2005)

Seen a video of two in Monroe co. a little why back?Also one was spotted in Channing Mi. a few years back walking down 95 i think.


----------



## mydogisscout (Jun 24, 2005)

BVW said:


> I just thought you were a Kid because of the claim you made, sorry. So two guys saw 2 cougars? same night or different night? same bait different bait? what time of the day, they kept their composure to get a pic? Just relieze if this is true and you have pics of Cougars on bait piles near marquette than those guys are the first to do it EVER!
> I 'll just wait for the pics, when are ya posting them again?
> In the mean time lets hear some more details.. Like did your pa's buddies just leave the woods after the Cougar's left? How long were they there? Has the guide that runs the bait seen cougars before? does he use trail cameras? did this make the local news yet? just the little things to make us not so skeptical because you must understand that this has been pulled before. But at least you must understand the magnitude of your statement? and i guess that you have not been around this forum much and see how we love to debate this magical cougars topic.
> sorry for calling you a kid, your probably older than I.
> Was this your dad's hunting group?


The guide service was Gonzo Bear Camp, owned by a good friend of my dad's, and my dad guides for him (as well as I used to before the military took me hunting for tougher game). I know they only hunt afternoon/evenings, and I don't know the details of the hunter(s) actions except one hunter took a couple of pics before it ran away. I don't know if it was the same night or not. as to the evening news, I don't know. trail cameras, no he doesn't use them. I do know that they were just as suprized as the hunter when they found out. I know there's alot I can't answer, but keep in mind, I wasn't there. I'm not sure when the pictures will be back to my dad, as this guy was just a hunter in camp, I did let them know that I wanted them for a day so I could scan them into the computer. 
When the camp was over on the west side of Lake Gogebic, the guys that used to run dogs in that area used to tree a couple every year. one guy who lives in Ironwood I know, by the last name of Carley trees a few yearly. I will ask him to take pics next time as well. 
My opinion is this...It may have been a large Lynx (which also was thought gone from michigan until someone trapped one a few years back) or maybe it was a cougar...only the pics will tell for sure. Too many people report seeing cougars for there to be none. besides, why are they protected if they don't exist here??? 
I hunted in washington state for 3 years, in areas where cougars are hunted and killed regularly, and I never saw a track, so don't base your your opinion on a track survey. As for pelicans in michigan...they show up every year, and on the refuge, there's pics of them at Fish Point...thier "white" pelicans, not the brown pelicans people are used to seeing at busch gardens. and they regularly breed in north dakota.


----------



## wyle_e_coyote (Aug 13, 2004)

mydogisscout said:


> When the camp was over on the west side of Lake Gogebic, the guys that used to run dogs in that area used to tree a couple every year. one guy who lives in Ironwood I know, by the last name of Carley trees a few yearly. I will ask him to take pics next time as well.


Now you are going throw in this! Now you are telling us that two different houndsman tree a couple cougar every year, but never make it public. They just pull their dogs off and let the little kitty go without even a pic. Boy, if I was a cat runner and treed a Cougar near Lake Gogebic, MI, I would make sure and get some proof to shove down the troat of a douter like myself. !!!!!!!!


----------



## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

GUN HO said:


> Seen a video of two in Monroe co. a little why back?Also one was spotted in Channing Mi. a few years back walking down 95 i think.



LMAO!!! Did you actually watch that video? 
:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## slayer (Jun 1, 2002)

Dosent uncle Ted own gonzo bear camp ?? I know he did own it at one time ??


----------



## rancid (Jul 22, 2002)

Just did a search of for "gonzo bear camp".This guy lists his dads phone# and the owners supposed phone#.And says they are responsible for nugents 650# bear.Not alot good said about the camp,except by the guy that started this thread.Do a search it's interesting. :lol: 
by the way his dads number is 810-730-6119 jim,and the guides name is dale gray 810-655-2951.ENJOY!


----------



## Big50blaster (Feb 4, 2005)

Swamp Monster said:


> LMAO!!! Did you actually watch that video?
> :lol: :lol: :lol:


Yep I seen the video. My bets is that the guy named Townshend is right on the money. He is a retiered cop from detroit and has been tuaght by the FBI and runs his own video analasis company. He has also done murder cases. He says they is 6 feet long, allfull big house cats.

If the DNR knows these was housecats why dont they acts like they has a pair and git thier own professional video analyzer to prove this Townshend guy wrong?


----------



## KEN C (Oct 28, 2002)

MICHIGAN "COUGAR" VIDEOS SHOW HOUSECATS

ECN News, 8/23/04



On July 26, 2004, the Michigan Wildlife Conservancy released a video-production, which purported to document two separate incidents of wild cougars caught on videotape in Michigan. The first video was taken in Monroe County in April 2004. It featured two animals and was filmed by Carol Stokes. The second video involved a single animal from Wexford County in 1997. The Monroe County video has received considerable media attention in recent weeks. The story ran on a number of local television news broadcasts, as well as in several major newspapers. 



In keeping with its mission of collecting and evaluating evidence of cougars in the Midwest, ECN coordinated an independent expert review of these videos. In consulting with some of the most prominent zoologists and cougar biologists in North America, and following a review of available literature on cougar behavior and physiology, it has been concluded that the animals depicted in both video segments are clearly house cats. 



Monroe County Video

There are several very telling physical characteristics and behaviors that indicate that these animals are housecats. The body conformation is consistent with domestic cats, not cougars (i.e., head profile, arched backs, rounded bodies, very short necks and relatively short tails). Their movements are clearly those of house cats, as they walk with relatively short, choppy strides and with their backs in a slightly arched position. Most importantly, in the 70 seconds in which they are featured on the tape, BOTH cats raise their tails vertically and appear to spray urine backwards (while their tails twitch). This behavior has not been documented in captive or wild cougars of either sex. It is characteristic of domestic cats (See expert quotes and publications cited below).



Wexford County Video
There are also several telling physical characteristics and behaviors that indicate the Wexford County animal is a house cat (i.e., arched back, round/stocky body, relatively large head, large pointed ears, short muzzle, small feet, very short neck, relatively short tail, coat pattern and color). The animal's movements are also consistent with house cat (short choppy stride and an arched back position). 


Expert Opinions
ECN consulted with numerous zoologists and cougar experts in conjunction with this analysis. The following were typical responses. 



Mark L Zornes

Arizona Game & Fish Dept.

Small Game/Predator-Furbearer Biologist



"I have reviewed the tape and all cats shown are obviously house cats. The photo of the "family" group and the single animal prior to and after exhibit traits and behaviors consistent with house cats, not cougars. I have never observed cougars lifting their tails in an erect manner as seen on the video, and have yet to find a single cougar biologist that has witnessed this behavior. Cougars are specifically documented as the only large wild felid that does not "spray" to mark territory (note this behavior in the Stokes film). The "humped-backed" posture exhibited by all cats in the video is not consistent with cougar behavior, but is with house cats. The size comparison footage from the "Stoke's film" and the single cat are very suspect."



Chuck Anderson. Ph.D.

Trophy Game Section

Wyoming Game and Fish Department



Regarding the Michigan cougar video, all of the cats video taped look like the "kitty" variety to me. The erect tail and humped back is not consistent with cougar behavior/physiology. Estimated size of the object video taped can be significantly off if the distance to the subject is not exact. I suspect others have pointed this out, but in addition to the video taped cats, the tape also includes a still photograph of a cougar I suspect is a captive animal. This cat exhibited significant belly fat, which I have never seen on a wild cougar. Feel free to cite my opinion and let me know if you have any additional questions.



Darrell Land

Florida Panther Section Leader

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission



In my humble opinion, based on 20 years of experience with Florida panthers and investigating Florida panther sightings, I believe the video referenced below is of 2 housecats. Cougars/panthers/mountain lions are not capable of holding their tails in the manner of the cats in the video. Also, I do not believe that video accurately portrays the size of the cats. In fact, it appears that the cats are of the same height, if not shorter than, the stubble in the field and I suspect that stubble to be less than 18 inches tall.



Norah B. Fletchall

Co-Chair AZA Felid Taxon Advisory Group

Assistant Zoo Director-John Ball Zoo 



"I have reviewed the alleged cougar video on the Michigan Wildlife Conservancy website at www.miwildlife.org. The video of the two felids across a field taken in eastern Michigan do not appear to be cougars. First of all the distance and poor resolution of the video makes it impossible for me to accurately judge the size of the two animals. In addition, the video comparisons of the cats with nearby trees, etc. is unconvincing and confusing. The movements of the cats, particularly the spraying behavior does not look like any cougars I have ever seen. The movements of the cats are much more akin to house cats than mountain lions. The animals bodies do not appear to be long enough to be cougars and body size is not heavy enough. Neither cat seems to notice the camera. An elusive species such as a mountain lion would be much more wary when moving along the edge of an open field than either one of these cats. Coat pattern/color is not distinguishable to me at all. Based upon the above I do not think these cats are mountain lions-they appear to me to be house cats. 



As for the other video of the cat moving through the snow it is not a mountain lion. Size, movements and coat pattern and color all appear to me to be that of a domestic long haired cat enjoying a winter romp in the snow!



I did show the video to three of our staff members (all three have experience working with captive cougars including a former zookeeper who cared for our cougars daily for twenty years). None of them thought the cats in the video were cougars."



Dave Moody

Trophy Game Coordinator

Wyoming Game and Fish Department



After reviewing the video you provided, it is clear to me that the individuals are house cats, not cougars. I've been working with large predators for over ten years and have never heard of, or observed, a cougar lift it's tail the way these cats do. It's my understanding that cougars do not spray in this fashion to mark territories. Additionally, the various body movements, postures, and shape that these cats exhibit (arching back, head profile, and extended gut) are not consistent with cougars.



David S. Maehr, Ph.D.

University of Kentucky

Department of Forestry

(Former Florida Panther Researcher)



"I looked at the video and it really looks like house cats to me. One of the cats appears very light in color, and the way they wave their tails around is not that of a cougar. The argument regarding size relative to a tree is bogus because there does not appear to be a way of showing exactly where these animals are relative to it. Besides, they just don't look like big cats to me."



Mark Jenkins

Proprietor

Cooper's Rock Mountain Lion Sanctuary

"I checked out the video and I also think they are housecats. The movements are all wrong for a large cats, and in twelve years of daily observation of cougars I have never seen one raise its tail vertically and spray like the other cat species I have worked with." 



Relevant Literature:



Sunquist, M., & Sunquist, F. (2002). Wild Cats of the World. Chicago: University of Chicago Press

Wemmer, C., & Scow, K. (1977). Communication in the Felidae with emphasis on scent marking and contact patterns. In How Animals Communicate, ed. T.A. Sebeok, 749-766. Bloomington: Indiana University Press.



Acknowledgements:



We would like to thank all of the professionals who assisted us in our review of the video taped evidence. We are also indebted to Yale Universitys Kline Science Library, which provided ECN access to its extensive collection of literature on felid behavior and physiology.


----------



## KEN C (Oct 28, 2002)

Lynx and Other Carnivore Surveys in Wisconsin in Winter 2003-2004

By Adrian P. Wydeven, Jane E. Wiedenhoeft, Ronald N. Schultz and Sarah Boles
Wisconsin DNR, Park Falls

September 13, 2004


For: U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services
Region 3, Endangered Species Grant Program
Section 6

Cooperators: U.S. Forest Service; U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service;
Michigan DNR; Minnesota DNR; 
Wisconsin Volunteer Carnivore Trackers



The Wisconsin DNR listed the Canada lynx (Lynx canadensis) as a state endangered species in 1973, but removed lynx from the list in 1997, due to lack of evidence of any potential for a breeding population within the state. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service listed the lynx as a threatened species within the contiguous Unites States on 24 April 2000. States that were thought to have lynx included Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota and 10 other states. There has not been any evidence of a breeding population of lynx in Wisconsin in the 1900's (Thiel 1987, Wydeven 1998). Lynx are occasionally observed in the state, and up to 1% of bobcat hunters and trappers reported lynx sign in Wisconsin (Wydeven 1998). Therefore there is a need to determine more precisely if lynx are occurring in Wisconsin, and if so, determine distribution and breeding status of lynx in the state.

The Wisconsin DNR has cooperated with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to search for gray wolves (Canis lupus) using snow track surveys since 1979 (Wydeven et al 1995). These surveys have detected lynx in the past (Wydeven 1998, Wydeven et al 1995). Therefore these snow track surveys are being used to search for evidence of lynx in the state



METHODS

Lynx and other carnivores were searched for along snow covered forest roads in 80 survey blocks across 19 northern counties (Figure 1). Surveys were conducted as described by Wydeven et al (1996). Generally snow covered roads were intensively searched for medium and large carnivores 1-4 days following snowfalls. Survey blocks averaged about 200 mi2 each, and were traversed by slowly driving as many of the snow covered roads within the block as possible. The survey emphasis was on blocks located within the most suitable habitat for wolves and other carnivores sensitive to human activities (Mladenoff et al. 1995). Tracks of lynx and other rare carnivores were carefully measured and photographed (Halfpenny et al. 1995).


RESULTS

A total of 3696.5 miles of track surveys were conducted by DNR trackers in 80 survey blocks in northern Wisconsin (Table1, Figure 1). Two sets of lynx tracks were detected in survey block 82, in Vilas County. The most abundant carnivores were fisher (Martes pennanti) which were detected at a rate of 16.0 per 100 miles of survey. The 4 canids were the next most abundant carnivores including coyotes (Canis latrans 14.1 / 100 miles), gray wolf (Canis lupus 9.4 / 100 miles), fox (Vulpes vulpes & Urocyon cinereoargenteus 8.8 /100 miles), and dog (Canis familiaris 8.0 / 100 miles). Rates of track detection were lower than 2003 for most carnivores, except wolves had increased, otter were similar, and the first observation of lynx tracks in 5 years.

Two probable lynx tracks were detected by Ron Schultz on 22 March 2004 in NW SW Section 36, T42N, R10E in Vilas County (Latitude 46. 0753 / Longitude 89.1981). It appeared that 2 lynx were traveling together. Schultz followed the tracks for about 2.1 miles. Snow conditions allowed only one good measurement, consisting of a minimum outline of 6.5 cm length and 7.1 cm width. Measurement of variable outline was 9 cm long by 10.2 cm wide. Urine samples were collected from snow, but could not be verified as lynx. Attempts were made for follow-up surveys and consideration was given to attempt trapping, but snow melted soon afterwards. 
It could not be determined if these 2 represented a female and her kitten or a male following a female; in either case this may represent the possibility of breeding lynx.

Felid track observations included 97 bobcat (Lynx rufus) or 2.6/ 100 miles, 5 cats (Felis catus) 
at 0.1 / 100 miles, and 2 Canada lynx 0.1/ 100 miles. No cougar (Puma concolor) tracks were found and none have been detected during any previous years. Bobcat detection rate was less than 2003 (4.6 / 100 miles), but similar to 2002 (3.0/ 100 miles). Bobcat were detected in 41 survey blocks (51.2%).

More intense efforts to search for lynx were made in the Nicolet National Forest where lynx had been detected between 1993 and 1997 (Wydeven 1998). Two lynx were detected along 572.2 miles of survey route at a rate of 0.3 lynx per 100 miles (Table 2). This was the first detection of lynx in the Nicolet since 20 January 1997 (Wydeven 1998). Bobcats were detected at a rate of 6.1 bobcat / 100 miles, slightly higher than 2003, when 5.5 bobcat / 100 miles were found. Ratio of lynx:bobcat detection was 1:17.5.

DISCUSSION

The 2 lynx found this year in northeast Vilas County were the first lynx detected since 1999 (Figure 2), when one was detected in western Douglas County along the Minnesota border (Wydeven et al. 1999). Four observations were detected in the Nicolet National Forest between 1993-1997 including: 17 February 1993, 28 January 1995, 1 March 1996, and 20 January 1997 (Wydeven 1998). All these observations were tracks of single animals, and close to Alvin in Forest County. The lynx track observation in 2004 was just to the west of the Nicolet Forest, and about 20 miles west of the sightings near Alvin.

The presence of 2 lynx together might indicate possibility of breeding activity. Normally only adult females and their offspring travel together, or adult males and females travel together during breeding season, but sometimes adult lynx hunt together (Mowat et al. 2000). The detection in late winter did not allow many follow-up surveys. Additional surveys will be done in the area next winter, and if lynx continue to be found in the area, livetrapping and radio-collaring will be attempted.


LITERATURE CITED 

Halfpenny, J.C., R.W. Thompson, S.C. Morse, T. Holden and R. Rezendes, 1995. Snow
Tracking Pp. 91-163 in W.J. Zielinski and T.E. Kucera. American Marten, Fisher, 
Lynx and Wolverine: Survey methods for their detection. U.S.D.A. Forest 
Service General and Technical Report PSW-GTR-157. 163 pp..

Mladenoff, D.J., T.A. Sickley, R.G. Haight and A.P. Wydeven. 1995. A regional 
landscape analysis and prediction of favorable gray wolf habitat in the northern
Great Lakes region. Conservation Biology. 9:279-294.

Mowat, G., K.G. Poole, and M. ODonoghue. 2000. Ecology of lynx in northern Canada
and Alaska. Pp. 265-306. In Ruggiero, L. F., K. B. Aubry, S. W. Buskirk, G. M. 
Koehler, C.J. Krebs, K. S. McKelvey, and J. R. Squire. Ecology and Conservation of 
Lynx in the United States. U.S. Forest Service, Rocky Mountain Research Station, 
General Technical Report, RMRS-GTR-30WWW, USA, 480 pp.

Thiel, R.P. 1987. The status of Canada lynx in Wisconsin, 1865-1980. Wisconsin 
Academy of Sciences, Arts and Letters. 75: 90-96.

Wydeven, A.P. 1998. Lynx status in Wisconsin 1998. Wisconsin Endangered
Resources Report #____. Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources,
Madison, WI 4 pp.

Wydeven, A.P., R.N. Schultz, and R.A. Megown. 1996. Guidelines for carnivore track 
surveys during winter in Wisconsin. Wisconsin Endangered Report #112,
Madison, WI. 11 pp.

Wydeven, A.P., R.N. Schultz, and R.P. Thiel. 1995. Monitoring of recovering gray wolf
population in Wisconsin, 1979-1991. Pp 147-156 in Carbyn, L.N., S.H. Fritts and 
D.R. Seip. 1995. Ecology and Conservation of Wolves in a Changing World.
Canadian Circumpolar Institute. Occasional Publication No. 35. 642 pp.

Wydeven, A.P., R.N. Schultz, and J.E. Wiedenhoeft. 1999. Lynx and wolf track surveys
in Wisconsin in winter 1998-1999. Section 6 Report to U.S. Fish and Wildlife
Service. Wisconsin DNR, Park Falls, WI. 7 pp.



Table 1. Carnivore track surveys conducted by Wisconsin DNR personnel in northern Wisconsin, winter 2003-2004.
Block	Miles	Hours	Coyote	Dog	Fox	Wolf	Fisher	Otter	Bobcat	Cat	Lynx	Raccoon
1	22.6	4.8	4	10	0	2	2	3	1	0	0	0
2	39.8	8.9	2	2	7	9	9	1	2	0	0	1
3	17.6	5.2	5	2	2	5	5	3	0	0	0	0
6	2.3	0.7	0	0	1	3	2	2	2	0	0	0
7	4.5	1.3	3	0	1	4	7	1	1	0	0	0
9	64.2	11.7	13	10	6	14	12	0	0	0	0	1
10	91.1	11.3	0	2	3	4	7	1	0	0	0	1
11	15.8	4.1	12	6	14	3	12	1	2	0	0	3
13	15.1	3.5	5	0	1	1	1	5	1	0	0	0
14	63.9	6.2	5	5	17	6	5	14	0	0	0	0
18	137	11.3	5	0	22	0	8	4	0	2	0	4
19	35.2	5	0	4	2	0	7	1	0	1	0	0
20	12.4	4.3	2	0	1	1	2	0	0	0	0	1
23	28.1	7.2	3	2	0	0	1	2	1	0	0	2
24	74.1	15.6	16	0	10	8	21	6	3	0	0	0
25	47.2	16.4	9	4	3	18	9	1	2	0	0	0
26	37.4	10	3	4	2	5	3	0	1	0	0	1
27	24.8	3	0	4	0	5	0	0	0	0	0	0
28	59.9	9	0	4	0	5	1	0	0	0	0	0
29	43.1	5.5	3	1	0	1	1	0	1	0	0	0
30	21.6	2.1	14	1	11	0	17	0	1	0	0	0
31	4.4	1.2	0	0	3	4	5	0	0	0	0	0
32	51	4.1	1	0	0	0	2	0	0	0	0	0
33	103.1	14.6	41	7	11	1	22	0	7	0	0	0
34	21	6	9	0	7	5	12	0	6	0	0	0
35	62.2	12.5	7	2	10	8	9	0	0	0	0	0
36	78.5	14.1	6	2	8	21	6	3	1	0	0	0
37	161.7	32.6	4	8	12	17	16	6	0	0	0	0
38	323.4	65.2	17	8	22	24	49	2	2	0	0	0
40	122.7	26.1	25	10	22	23	41	13	1	0	0	1
Table 1. continued 
Block	Miles	Hours	Coyote	Dog	Fox	Wolf	Fisher	Otter	Bobcat	Cat	Lynx	Raccoon
41	107.6	23.3	2	14	3	10	1	0	0	0	0	0
42	43.7	7	3	0	2	3	29	1	0	0	0	0
43	11.7	7	6	2	11	2	19	3	0	0	0	2
44	36.4	6	6	3	2	8	1	0	0	0	0	0
46	35.5	7.7	5	9	0	2	3	0	3	1	0	0
47	46.4	7.5	4	1	1	6	2	0	0	0	0	0
48	62.1	9.7	9	4	2	8	5	1	0	0	0	0
49	28.7	7	1	4	1	9	1	0	1	0	0	0
50	27.2	3.3	1	3	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
51	60.9	14.1	8	3	0	14	5	0	2	0	0	0
52	50.7	7.2	9	4	4	2	14	0	3	0	0	0
53	41.9	6.7	9	0	1	3	2	4	3	0	0	0
54	43.4	12.8	3	10	5	5	13	4	1	0	0	0
55	43.6	10.2	1	4	1	12	3	1	0	1	0	0
56	30.7	4.8	0	2	2	5	0	1	0	0	0	0
57	82.3	17.5	3	6	3	6	10	5	1	0	0	0
58	4.2	1.5	0	0	0	2	0	0	0	0	0	0
59	30.6	6	4	2	3	0	6	2	0	0	0	0
63	11.9	3.5	1	4	1	0	3	2	1	0	0	0
64	26.7	6	2	11	0	0	4	2	0	0	0	0
65	42.6	6	4	3	1	2	6	4	4	0	0	0
67	9.2	2.9	0	3	0	0	2	0	1	0	0	0
68	31.7	8.2	4	1	3	10	5	0	0	0	0	0
69	17.5	1.5	1	0	0	4	0	0	0	0	0	0
70	118.5	14	2	0	0	17	1	4	0	0	0	0
71	26.9	4.2	4	1	5	0	6	1	0	0	0	0
76	48.9	5.2	7	0	2	0	5	5	0	0	0	0
77	41.5	6.5	4	3	1	4	0	2	2	0	0	0
78	24	4.5	3	9	2	0	6	0	0	0	0	0
79	16.2	4	2	2	0	1	4	1	1	0	0	0
80	24.2	7.3	5	2	4	0	6	0	0	0	0	0
Table 1. continued 
Block	Miles	Hours	Coyote	Dog	Fox	Wolf	Fisher	Otter	Bobcat	Cat	Lynx	Raccoon
81	40.8	10.5	2	6	1	2	7	0	4	0	0	0
82	17.5	5	4	7	0	0	6	0	4	0	2	0
83	41.1	7.2	12	10	4	0	9	1	5	0	0	0
84	54.4	7.8	27	6	3	3	46	3	7	0	0	0
85	60.5	13.4	22	7	26	0	18	3	3	0	0	0
86	48.9	7	4	2	0	0	4	0	0	0	0	0
92	27.8	5	3	7	2	3	3	0	0	0	0	0
93	44.4	6.5	6	11	2	0	8	0	1	0	0	0
94	19.4	1	1	4	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	0
95	42.2	6.3	11	3	0	0	4	1	1	0	0	1
96	36.6	8	12	7	6	2	6	0	0	0	0	0
97	11	3.5	7	4	1	0	0	0	1	0	0	0
98	56.9	10.1	18	4	6	2	9	0	6	0	0	0
99	22.6	5.5	10	0	5	0	5	4	2	0	0	0
100	36.1	7.1	22	2	3	0	4	0	5	0	0	0
101	18.8	2.5	8	1	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	0
103	19.2	4.4	1	1	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	0
104	14.8	3.7	5	0	1	0	1	0	0	0	0	0
107	70.4	10.2	20	4	6	4	2	0	0	0	0	0
Totals	3696.5	681.3	522	294	324	348	591	124	97	5	2	18
#/100 miles 14.1	8.0	8.8	9.4	16.0	3.4	2.6	0.1	0.1	0.5


Table 2. Lynx-Wolf-Carnivore Surveys conducted by Wisconsin DNR personnel on the Nicolet National Forest, winter 2003-2004.
Block	County	Miles	Hours	Coyote	Fox	Wolf	Fisher	Marten	Bobcat	Lynx
82	Vilas	17.5	5	4	0	0	6	0	4	2
83	Forest/Vilas	41.1	7.2	12	4	0	9	2	5	0
84	Forest	54.4	7.8	27	3	3	46	18	7	0
85	Forest/Oneida	60.5	13.4	22	26	0	18	13	3	0
86	Forest/Oneida	48.9	7	4	0	0	4	0	0	0
91	Oconto	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
92	Lang/Forest/Ocont	27.8	5	3	2	3	3	0	0	0
93	Forest/Langlade	44.4	6.5	6	2	0	8	0	1	0
94	Forest	19.4	1	1	0	0	1	0	0	0
95	Forest	42.2	6.3	11	0	0	4	5	1	0
96	Forest/Florence	36.6	8	12	6	2	6	2	0	0
97	Forest/Florence	11	3.5	7	1	0	0	0	1	0
98	Forest/Florence	56.9	10.1	18	6	2	9	0	6	0
99	Florence	22.6	5.5	10	5	0	5	0	2	0
100	Florence/Marinette	36.1	7.1	22	3	0	4	0	5	0
101	Forest/Marinette	18.8	2.5	8	0	0	1	0	0	0
102	Forest/Marinette	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
103	Oconto/Marinette	19.2	4.4	1	0	0	1	0	0	0
104	Oconto/Marinette	14.8	3.7	5	1	0	1	0	0	0
TOTALS	572.2
104
173
59
10
126
40
35
2

#/100 mi. 30.2	10.3	1.7	22.0	7.0	6.1	0.3
mi/carnivore 3.3	9.7	57.2	4.5	14.3	16.3	286.1



Figure 2. Lynx tracks and lynx mortalities in Wisconsin 1991-2004


----------



## Big50blaster (Feb 4, 2005)

Ken why did you post some article bout wisconsin. who cares if they has lynx or not and what does it hafta do with cougars in MI at a bait pile?

Why shuld I beleive a article written by some ECN bunch a cougar lovers. I doesnt trust these cougar groups one bit. My guts tells me that they is probly a bunch of anti huntin bunny huggers. I aint got much learnin but I smells a rat some where in all these cougar news stories. Looks ta me like these cougar groups is wantin ta git cougars back in MI. I even wonder if they has been turnin em loose and when somebody takes a picture or videos one they has ta try there best to convince people that it was justa housecat. 

I thank there is some cougars in MI and theres ben lotsa sightins for many years even by dnr people. a few cougars dont scare me but wackos do. What worrys me is that these animal rights groups is gonna try to make the cougar like the wolves in MI and theres gonna be so many that there aint no deer left ta hunt. Antis make me see red. just look at them poor guys out in californya and oregon that cain't run hounds on cougars anymore. If they looks like a bunch a bunny huggers they probly is. I might be wrong but it sure looks like it ta me.
:rant: :rant: :rant:


----------



## GRUNDY (Jun 18, 2005)

People should know that they cannot just go online and make a claim about knowing so and so who saw cougars on bear bait and took pictures without actually being able to post the pictures in the first place  . It's high time the pictures are posted or this whole thread will be another waste of time and reading because it won't prove @#[email protected] Just get a bunch of people wound up over nothing!:rant: 

Brian


----------



## Big50blaster (Feb 4, 2005)

GRUNDY said:


> People should know that they cannot just go online and make a claim about knowing so and so who saw cougars on bear bait and took pictures without actually being able to post the pictures in the first place  . It's high time the pictures are posted or this whole thread will be another waste of time and reading because it won't prove @#[email protected] Just get a bunch of people wound up over nothing!:rant:
> 
> Brian


You is right which is why i said that to the poster in my first post on this thread. we need the pictures or I wont beleive the guy. i do thank he has the right to post his story, but no one will believe him if he caint produce the photos.


----------



## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

I'll listen to the folks at the ECN long before the MWC! And I'll agree with trained wildlife bioligists (in states with healthy Cougar populations no less) over a retired police officer anyday. 


What we have in this thread is just another unsubstantiated report.


----------



## NEMichsportsman (Jul 3, 2001)

Although this one has generated some posts I think this has been covered a trillion times before.


Mydog...when you get pics you can start a new thread.


Meanwhile this has very little to do with Bear Hunting...


----------

