# CWD and hunting land?



## michgundog

Is all the hype of CWD causing the value deer hunting property to decline? Would right now be a good time to purchase, or should someone wait until the DNR feels it’s been eradicated? From what I understand the only way to get rid of it would be quarantine the animals and shoot them all. I wouldn’t want to buy property exclusively to deer hunt and have that happen. 


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## cotote wacker

My great-grandpa said....they're not making more land buy it when you feel you found what you like and comfortable with the price...

CWD just didn't appear out of no where its been around for a long long time....it was controlled by animal die offs and lower populations....
Its never ever going to be eliminated your always going to have eagles, ravens, crows, bears, coyotes, wolves and more spreading it far and wide feeding on carcasses and man transporting and depositing deer parts carelessly....

I started deer hunting in 1970 you didn't see many deer in Southern Michigan everybody went Up North to deer hunt you were allowed one deer a year in all seasons. Now there's deer even in the larger cities. Too many deer disease will control them if man doesn't.


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## ART

Im guessing cwd is only driving out the meat eaters.....the qdmrs are still hunting racks..they have the money to burn on trophy land.....I bet the land prices wont change..


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## swampbuck

It drove down the price in the bTB zone.


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## Luv2hunteup

IMHO CWD has not driven down the price of land yet. History on what bTB has done to the price of recreational land is readily available but that was in combination of the baiting ban. You can get deals in the bTB zone now where land prices are cheap plus the deer population is high. 

Land prices are driven by demand. Location is critical for increasing or decreasing prices. Land purchases are long term decisions, choose wisely and you will do fine.

Those with vested interests in land in the CWD area have a different mind set than those who are outside the area. So far there has been no links between humans and CWD but in my lifetime there were no links between tobacco use, agent orange and PCB ill effects either. I can remember seeing doctors on tv ads promoting smoking, how well did that work out?


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## Liver and Onions

CWD was found in our wild deer in the summer of '15 in the Lansing area. About 10 CWD positive deer in 3 1/2 years. Has this affected hunting land prices in that area ?
CWD found in Montcalm Co. in the fall of '17. About 90 CWD positive deer found in the Kent-Montcalm Counties in the past 16 months. Most in about 12 Townships. Check the map in the Whitetail Disease forum for that area. Someone on this site might know if that has affected the price of hunting land there.
As far as TB affecting land prices....could be. However, the huge price drop between 2006-2009 was because Michigan lead the nation into the recession when Bush was President and Michigan was affected more than any other state. 

L & O


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## Trophy Specialist

swampbuck said:


> It drove down the price in the bTB zone.


Or was it the DNR's response by banning baiting there and allowing virtually unlimited antlerless harvests which dramatically reduced the herd in that area that brought down the price of hunting land?


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## Luv2hunteup

BTB land prices are at early ‘90s pricing. Sunday I looked at 123 acres in Alpena County 45 of which is in crop. Asking price is just over $1k per acre which includes both sides of a river along with a private bridge. The farmer is retiring his dairy operation. I want to walk it a little more but will not offer $1K per acre no matter what. To put things in perspective, combination recreational/farm land above the bridge is up 4-6 times higher for the same time frame with a lot less deer.

CWD positive deer have doubled in the last year in more than one county. Growth in other states show its exponential. It could easily double annually for years just like in Wisconsin’s early years of infection. Once established there is no turning back. If you want to buy there knock yourself out but you’ll be money ahead by waiting if history repeats itself. Antlers are nice, my walls are full of them, but filling the freezer is a big part of why I hunt deer.


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## Dish7

ART said:


> Im guessing cwd is only driving out the meat eaters.....the qdmrs are still hunting racks..they have the money to burn on trophy land.....I bet the land prices wont change..


Spot on. QDMA guys don't eat deer and are all very wealthy. SMH. :lol:


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## No-Bama

Being in the real estate industry, my professional opinion is that land prices will ultimately be affected adversely. The general consensus is that hunter numbers will continue to decline, perhaps precipitously depending on how the CWD situation shakes out. 

It's supply and demand. Less hunters, less demand for hunting property; the result will be lower land prices. 

If I were currently in the market, I'd probably focus on smaller parcels, reasonably close to a major population center. Such a piece of land could appeal to a non hunter looking to build a home or cabin away from the city, but still make the commute to work. The larger the parcel, the more you're going to back yourself into a corner of having hunters as your only likely suitors. 

If you're in an highly agricultural area, I'd consider that an asset as well, depending on the particular parcel. If it can feasibly be converted to AG Land, there will always be some kind of a market for it.


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## Waif

I enjoy my C.W.D. land.
Hey , I can see deer! Even kill one sometimes. Or just watch them. That has not always been the case elsewhere.
It is close to home , but in a better area for deer than many I have hunted and scouted and looked at for sale over the years.

As mentioned above by No-Bama, it being a smaller parcel(s) in an area with potential sale to multiple parties interests besides deer hunting ,(combined with price I paid for it) makes it reasonable to expect being able to sell.

Not interested in selling though...
I've considered building on it , but that would ruin one of the things I like about it....


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## 12970

Liver and Onions said:


> CWD was found in our wild deer in the summer of '15 in the Lansing area. About 10 CWD positive deer in 3 1/2 years. Has this affected hunting land prices in that area ?
> CWD found in Montcalm Co. in the fall of '17. About 90 CWD positive deer found in the Kent-Montcalm Counties in the past 16 months. Most in about 12 Townships. Check the map in the Whitetail Disease forum for that area. Someone on this site might know if that has affected the price of hunting land there.
> As far as TB affecting land prices....could be. However, the huge price drop between 2006-2009 was because Michigan lead the nation into the recession when Bush was President and Michigan was affected more than any other state.
> 
> L & O


No, Because Majority of the Land In the Area it was First Found is "Farm / AG" Land Not Vacant Land Used Only for Deer Hunting, Some Need to Know before they Post things You Need to Go To Meridian Township is Used For and Drive Around There You Would Better Understand The Majority of Land There is "AG Lands" with Large Fields that Are Used for Corn, Beans and Other AG Crops Not "Vacant" Lands Used mainly for Deer Hunting! Sure some are also Used for Deer Hunting If You can get "Access" but Most is Farm Land! And Why Land has Not Decline in Price. So Please Don't Compare Lands Unless It is "Vacant" and Only Used for Deer Hunting as Other Places that are in Now the Core CWD Zone Are, there is a "Big" Difference! So Comparing some You are not Aware of, My Brother Lives in Meridian Township and Majority of the Lands there are either Subdivision Housing or Farm Land Not Vacant Land Only Used for Deer Hunting! Drive around in July you will see fields with Corn, Beans, Hay and Other AG Crops. Across from My Brothers House is a Large AG Field as well as South in the Next Township again Land AG Fields. and So On across Ingham County!
Please Know a little More Before You Compare Something You have never been At...
Newaygo1


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## Lily Furina

I have an off the wall suggestion and question about the absence of White Cedar for deer. I have been wondering if the lack of cedar browse might be playing into disease in deer.

Before I explain why I suspect their "might" be some connection let me explain that I am partially Anashinabe heritage on both sides of my family. There is a long tradition of using Cedar in various ways as an anti-bacterial and as an anti-viral. Humans don't eat cedar browse but we do make teas and poultice and sweat lodge smoke. 

However deer flock to cedar and browse it so heavily it is virtually impossible to grow. Once cedar is gone it generally is not coming back naturally. Over many years loggers have prized cedar and every year more of it is removed.

Cedar browse by deer has always been a major deer yard feature. Yet cedar browse does not provide great food for deer yet deer will eat it even when better food is right near, I have begun to wonder if deer browse cedar for the medicinal value? I am just saying "What if"? And maybe this is crazy. Yet animals seem to naturally know what they need to heal themselves. The Anishinabe have always used cedar. My Great-great grandmother healed my grandfathers leg when it was badly infected. She healed it with a cedar poultice. She did this long before humans had modern antibiotics. His leg was badly infected and the white doctors wanted to remove it. She kicked the white man doctors out of the home and wouldn't allow them in to see my grandfather.

It might be a long shot but it might be worth some investigation. Again just an idea?


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## Waif

C.W.D. is not a virus. Or a bacteria.

That does not mean cedar as part of a holistic diet and environment does not benefit deer. 
Or that cedar is not worth studying in a cervids immune system/resistance to other things in their environment besides prions in it's effect on deer.


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## Lily Furina

Waif said:


> C.W.D. is not a virus. Or a bacteria.
> 
> That does not mean cedar as part of a holistic diet and environment does not benefit deer.
> Or that cedar is not worth studying in a cervids immune system/resistance to other things in their environment besides prions in it's effect on deer.


Yes I agree. Of course Bovine TB is also an issue. I suspect that cedar browse is not so much a food for cervids but possibly a medicine. Animals somehow know how to treat themselves with plants. Dogs with worms will eat grass for example. Cedar browse has been used to treat cattle a few centuries ago in Europe. 

I know on our own property most of the cedar is gone and has been harvested decades ago. I am thinking that was a big mistake on our part. It would be nice to have some scientific examination as to the benefits of cedar on animals. Again we know people can't eat cedar but deer somehow consume it and seek it out particularly in the winter. Of course other food sources are diminished in the winter so that might be the only reason for this. But winter is also a time for bacterial and viral disease as animals become weak due to lack of food. If I knew that cedar was key to cervid health I might strive to propagate it on our wetlands.


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## Trophy Specialist

I have thousands of young cedars sprouting on my property. A lot of it is now up over three feet tall. It all started when deer numbers dropped off past a certain point about 10 years ago. With fewer deer now, they don't even seem to be interested in eating cedar. If I cut one down they don't even touch it. I would guess that they have more preferable foods available now that they did not have years ago with higher deer numbers.


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## Liver and Onions

Red or white cedar ?

L & O


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## Daddy

Trophy Specialist said:


> I have thousands of young cedars sprouting on my property. A lot of it is now up over three feet tall. It all started when deer numbers dropped off past a certain point about 10 years ago. With fewer deer now, they don't even seem to be interested in eating cedar. If I cut one down they don't even touch it. I would guess that they have more preferable foods available now that they did not have years ago with higher deer numbers.


Wow! Lucky you! Hopefully were talking white cedar? My experience with white cedar is that the deer only seem to browse cedar heavily in the winter. Some say cedar browse does not have much food value for deer. The old timers seem to think that deer are deriving something to get them through the cold winters. Who knows? 

Incidentally one thing that prevents white cedar from growing well is protection from the wind. White cedar has shallow root systems. So when people cut timber that serves as a wind break the standing cedar falls in the wind and doesn't tend to regrow well.

If anyone has a secret to propagating white cedar I would love to read about it. Maybe I could get some new ones growing in our wet area. I am new to this site but I really like the information from other contributors.


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## Trophy Specialist

Daddy said:


> Wow! Lucky you! Hopefully were talking white cedar? My experience with white cedar is that the deer only seem to browse cedar heavily in the winter. Some say cedar browse does not have much food value for deer. The old timers seem to think that deer are deriving something to get them through the cold winters. Who knows?
> 
> Incidentally one thing that prevents white cedar from growing well is protection from the wind. White cedar has shallow root systems. So when people cut timber that serves as a wind break the standing cedar falls in the wind and doesn't tend to regrow well.
> 
> If anyone has a secret to propagating white cedar I would love to read about it. Maybe I could get some new ones growing in our wet area. I am new to this site but I really like the information from other contributors.


White cedar for sure. I don't think I've ever even seen red cedar in the U.P. woods.









They key to growing white cedar is to have deer numbers very low like I have or somehow exclude them from it.


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## Daddy

Trophy Specialist said:


> White cedar for sure. I don't think I've ever even seen red cedar in the U.P. woods.
> View attachment 367481
> 
> 
> They key to growing white cedar is to have deer numbers very low like I have or somehow exclude them from it.


I am sure low population is the key...lol I keep trying to reduce the population....lol It isn't working however! The more I think about it maybe white cedar is important for deer health?


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