# Gun control



## Shiawassee_Kid

whether you like or not, here comes the freight train. they gonna try to push something through before the story falls out of the news cycle. anybody worried?







just renewed my NRA membership.


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## SBE II

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> whether you like or not, here comes the freight train. they gonna try to push something through before the story falls out of the news cycle. anybody worried?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just renewed my NRA membership.


*****tin tacks...been calling senators in IL


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## Shiawassee_Kid

SBE II said:


> *****tin tacks...been calling senators in IL


bad thing is, i think they will try to push through with executive order instead of a vote. A vote for gun control will be political suicide. the only people that don't care about re-election is obama/biden. thats what i'm scared of.


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## Bellyup

I am little concerned, not about that gun control, but of the civil war it will cause if they ever do get something through to come and get the guns. Ordered a new Tarus Judge today. Never owned a pistol. Now I will. I also signed up for the CCW. 

Maybe we should take a break from the season dates and unite on this. Any form of gun control right now is a bad thing, there is a foot hold from the tragedy in Newtown. 

I don't know if the NRA can stop it, the govt is ready for them, they know how they will come at them. What they might not see is the onslaught of letters and calls from individuals oposing any legislation restricting guns. (please Kid, i am being serious here don't jump on my ass) 

Anyone else agree ?


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## SBE II

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> bad thing is, i think they will try to push through with executive order instead of a vote. A vote for gun control will be political suicide. the only people that don't care about re-election is obama/biden. thats what i'm scared of.


Prepare for a civil war my friend. Adolf Obama will lead the charge.

The reason why it got shut down in IL or delayed is because of what the people were doing, calling. I called senator kirk dillard (r) and he was a no if the vote was going to occur. 

IL is run by the City of chicago and the whole state is getting sick of it. The only reason why I reside here is because of the lack of employment in MI>


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## scotts98rt

Had on the news today. California is going to do a waiting period for ammo. And here comes the best part.....If you think someone is mentally off they encourage you to turn them in...


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## rentalrider

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> whether you like or not, here comes the freight train. they gonna try to push something through before the story falls out of the news cycle. anybody worried?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just renewed my NRA membership.


Terrified. And mostly of what will happen if/when they come for them. I for one will not lay down while my rights are taken.


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## lang49

I'm concerned. The NRA is made up of millions of citizens like you and me. Yet, the media is doing an excellent job of portraying them as an evil lobbying organization representing a fringe minority.

I don't honestly think they can get legislation through the house. I think Obama is desperate enough to use the executive order.


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## craigrh13

It sickens me that so many hunters I know say something along the lines of " it is only assault weapons and high capacity mags they want to ban, we don't need any of that anyways". ********* morons I tell you.


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## waxico

And you can forget about constitutionality of anything they might write once it inevitably reached the Supreme Court.

So, yes, I can see executive orders. This administration is all about trial balloons to gauge outrage.

*So, my question to you LEO folks: are you going to enforce the laws that stem from an "Infringing" executive order?*

And to think, 236 years of lawful gun ownership threatened by the act of a 20 year old, insane little vegan. 

And I really like how these urban types are dictating to those that live in the country.

Lets hope this is the overreach needed to really wake people the fug up.


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## Bellyup

craigrh13 said:


> It sickens me that so many hunters I know say something along the lines of " it is only assault weapons and high capacity mags they want to ban, we don't need any of that anyways". ********* morons I tell you.


I used to think that way a long long time ago. I learned that if an inch is given they take 3 inches back. This is nothing to sneeze at. There is a reason you can't buy the most popular pistols and A/R's at any gun store in the U.S. right now. They are sold out with long waiting lists. And honestly, I am happy about that. 

I sincerely hope this thing does not spin out of control...... if it does, the economy just thought it was a drain on society..... this would be a much greater fallout.


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## BangBangBang

First the guns, then the Precious Metals. 
Guns keep us physically safe. Physical Gold and Silver keeps you monetarily safe. It's really starting to come apart at the seams.


Text of Illinois bill to force registration of gold/silver purchases~Current status= in committee

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ful...m=3341&GAID=11&LegID=64562&SpecSess=&Session=


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## Shiawassee_Kid

in essence, this gun ban talk has probably put more guns on the street than ever before.

also, everyone should watch this.

http://youtu.be/pyshEzHARC0

and even better, this.

http://youtu.be/GfTzPfdzFBY


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## SBE II

Bellyup said:


> I used to think that way a long long time ago. I learned that if an inch is given they take 3 inches back. This is nothing to sneeze at. There is a reason you can't buy the most popular pistols and A/R's at any gun store in the U.S. right now. They are sold out with long waiting lists. And honestly, I am happy about that.
> 
> I sincerely hope this thing does not spin out of control...... if it does, the economy just thought it was a drain on society..... this would be a much greater fallout.


I agree, gun control will effect every states resources department, which will create job loss.


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## waxico

Hence why I believe he's going to go after the ammuntion industry with the full weight of the EPA (lead) and exhorbitant taxes a la cigarettes.

And, any LEOs PLEASE weigh in on my question. You've had to have talked about this possibility amonst your fellow officers...

Because laws without the authority to back them up are meaningless...


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## lang49

So far he's been unsuccessful using the EPA for this. About 20 years ago, some genius senator attached a rider to a bill that stated the EPA could not regulate items taxed by the Pittman-Robertson act which is the act that taxes ammunition, lead fishing sinkers, etc. So far, it has stuck.


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## dead short

Now the waterfowl, skeet, trap (only) guys could potentially have a more specific vested interest (if you will).....

http://news.yahoo.com/video/two-shot-gunfire-erupts-california-182251554.htmlhttp://

School shooting in California today. Shooter used a shotgun.


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## gooseman

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> in essence, this gun ban talk has probably put more guns on the street than ever before.
> 
> also, everyone should watch this.
> 
> http://youtu.be/pyshEzHARC0
> 
> and even better, this.
> 
> http://youtu.be/GfTzPfdzFBY


Absolutely scary! We better all ban together and not be naive. The question is........what can be done to stop executive order?


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## dead short

gooseman said:


> what can be done to stop executive order?


 
Initially, I don't think anything other than a change of thought. I don't see that happening.


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## Bellyup

Maybe it is time to compromise. WIth the CA shooting and a shotgun being used..... I did not read the story yet. Maybe we all need to sit down and evaluate what we are willing to give up in order to not lose our hunting guns all together. I really, really honestly hope this never happens. My GOD. This really has a chance.


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## dead short

One of my favorite books when I was little was "Sam the Minuteman". I wish I knew where that book went. What a great little I can read book about the start of the country. I read that book over and over. Did anyone else have that book? 

From the book - ""Get your gun!" Sam's father said. "The British soldiers are coming this way!" Sam's father was a Minuteman. Sam was ready in a minute.

Father and son rushed to the village green. Other Minutemen were already there. Through the long night they waited and waited. Then, at dawn, the soldiers came!"

It's probably on the prohibited books list now . I'm going to check at my kids elementary school library tomorrow morning.

Some of the not golorious reviews - "Another historical fiction book that we read for school", "My daughter thought this book was scary", "A little on the scary side. It wasn't request again..."


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## MIhunt

It seems as if the government/ media, more so the media, has no idea what the NRA is about.


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## stackemup

MIhunt said:


> It seems as if the government/ media, more so the media, has no idea what the NRA is about.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


They know exactly what it's all about, and it scares the ever loving crap out of them. Their job is to keep the people who have no clue uninformed of the truth. The biggest thing I see is that if we don't educate the youth of our country exactly what made this country so great, we're screwed.


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## Zorba

I here alot of people ask this question, "Why would anyone want to own an AR?" If I was to buy a gun, then why not own the best gun available?

If I want to buy a car, then why not a Cadillac?


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## waxico

Mr. Short, you posted earlier that you work with a lot of LEOs.

I want to ask again, no one seems to want to answer: what are they saying about enforcing illegal laws (19 executive orders, for example):

Will they or won't they? 

Laws without teeth are suggestions, to be mocked and held in contempt.


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## BangBangBang

waxico said:


> Mr. Short, you posted earlier that you work with a lot of LEOs.
> 
> I want to ask again, no one seems to want to answer: what are they saying about enforcing illegal laws (19 executive orders, for example):
> 
> Will they or won't they?
> 
> Laws without teeth are suggestions, to be mocked and held in contempt.


We can only hope all LEO's feel like Texas does:

TEXAS THREATENS TO ARREST ANY FEDS WHO TRY ENFORCING NEW GUN REGS. http://radio.woai.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=119078&article=10700507


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## rentalrider

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/14/cuomo-new-york-guns/1833271/

It's happening folks. Slowly but surely. If I owned any of the arms companies, esp the rem arms which makes the Bushmaster I would pull roots and switch states to do business in.


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## waxico

Yep.

10 round capacity = evil, holocaust inciting.

7 round Cuomo capacity = happy funtime harmlessness.

If this happens in Michigan, how will you all feel becoming criminals with the stroke of a pen?

I'm sure my Hotlips 25 round .22 clips would lead to my arrest.
They'd really like my Mini 30...

Kiss your extended 12 gauge tubes for Snow Goose hunting goodbye too.

Thanks Insane (probably gay) Vegan. You represented all of us so well and accurately. No wonder dad didn't want you. Psycho


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## GabeSki

This is from "Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners" on Facebook. 

MICHIGAN LEGISLATIVE UPDATE, PART III: Expect to see Michigan introduce legislation similar to that in Wyoming, Indiana and Texas exempting it from federal firearms regulations under the 10th Amendment. We also anticipate legislation allowing for open carry in a vehicle. The issue of storing firearms in an employees' private locked vehicle is likely dead for awhile. Let's be happy we don't live in New York State where gun owners are now limited to 7 round magazines! 


Ill believe it when i see it and i hope i do see it. 

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## dead short

waxico said:


> Mr. Short, you posted earlier that you work with a lot of LEOs.
> 
> I want to ask again, no one seems to want to answer: what are they saying about enforcing illegal laws (19 executive orders, for example):
> 
> Will they or won't they?
> 
> Laws without teeth are suggestions, to be mocked and held in contempt.


Although I haven't read all of the 19 executive orders you are talking about, the ones I did read did not focus on creating legislation (not all executive orders are illegal laws), only instructing agencies of the federal government to look more closely at how they do their job, instruct the CDC to do research on gun violence, etc.

I guess we'll have to wait and see which if any executive orders get put into effect and how the law enforcement community reacts. 

I haven't met anyone yet interested in a federal gun grab. It would affect nearly every law enforcement officer also.


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## Ferris_StateHunter

waxico said:


> Yep.
> 
> 10 round capacity = evil, holocaust inciting.
> 
> 7 round Cuomo capacity = happy funtime harmlessness.
> 
> If this happens in Michigan, how will you all feel becoming criminals with the stroke of a pen?
> 
> I'm sure my Hotlips 25 round .22 clips would lead to my arrest.
> They'd really like my Mini 30...
> 
> Kiss your extended 12 gauge tubes for Snow Goose hunting goodbye too.
> 
> Thanks Insane (probably gay) Vegan. You represented all of us so well and accurately. No wonder dad didn't want you. Psycho


Yea I have 3 out here now that are considered "illegal." Apparently I have to register them, or go over the border to sell them...

Stupid decision, stupid law, stupid people...

Just created more innocent victims with the stroke of a pen IMO
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dead short

Can someone validate this, I'm doing dishes. 

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/TOB/S/2013SB-00122-R00-SB.htm


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## anon2192012

Looks like we may have dodged a bullet (for the big stuff at least) on the executive orders. Now hopefully congress doesn't do something stupid.

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## TNL

dead short said:


> Can someone validate this, I'm doing dishes.
> 
> http://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/TOB/S/2013SB-00122-R00-SB.htm
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire



It's a real bill that's been introduced in the CT State legislature allowing only single shot (1 shot only) guns with no magazine fed guns, O/U, or side-by-sides. Referred to the Judiciary committee where I hope it never sees the light of day. Those in the know call it a "feel good" Bill.


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## gooseman

dead short said:


> Can someone validate this, I'm doing dishes.
> 
> http://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/TOB/S/2013SB-00122-R00-SB.htm
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Did I read this right....... Anyone that has a gun other than a single shot will be charged as a class C felon?


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## dead short

That's how I read it. Just didn't have time to look it up. Unbelievable. 


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## dead short

Trying to stay positive and be proactive. Just got it back from paint. How about that gloss white cerakote? California compliant "pistol grip" and a little less "scary" paint job. 










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## limige

Lol awesome you going to carry that with you in the truck?


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## dead short

Oh no. Department issued firearms only in the truck. This is my personal "weapon of war". LOL....


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## stackemup

Nothing says "bringing the hurt" like Hello Kitty


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## SBE II

Bellyup said:


> I don't know, I think that is as far as it is going to get. I can understand New york City passing some effed up laws like Chicago has, they are huge cities. While I don't like the laws there, I would rather see it there in those cities than everywhere else.
> 
> If they say give them up....... all hell is going to break loose in the whole U.S..


You don't want to see this trust me, the murder rate in Chicago is the worst in the entire country, and they have the strictest gun laws. As an open minded individual you have to remember, all these Democrats and Adolf Obama need is a starting place, and these major cities are it. The city of Chicago runs the entire state of IL, and the rest of the state is sick of it. 

IL already has a FOID card that residents must have in order to posses a firearm, why should a state first of all charge a person to have their 2nd amendment rights?


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## WoW.

SBE II said:


> You don't want to see this trust me, the murder rate in Chicago is the worst in the entire country, and they have the strictest gun laws. As an open minded individual you have to remember, all these Democrats and Adolf Obama need is a starting place, and these major cities are it. The city of Chicago runs the entire state of IL, and the rest of the state is sick of it.
> 
> IL already has a FOID card that residents must have in order to posses a firearm, why should a state first of all charge a person to have their 2nd amendment rights?


First card carrying....then what is next, tattoes with numbers or chips?

This is all about control and law abiding citizens should not be adversely effected by the fact that the Government does not effectively control criminal acts by any lame brained law that they might create.


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## SBE II

WoW. said:


> First card carrying....then what is next, tattoes with numbers or chips?
> 
> This is all about control and law abiding citizens should not be adversely effected by the fact that the Government does not effectively control criminal acts by any lame brained law that they might create.


Very true indeed, but to those nimrods it is control, Adolf Obama control freak


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## MIhunt

The big problem in this debate is uneducated people, part of that is the media. How come you only hear when people are murdered with guns? You very, very rarely hear about someone who saves a life, or lives, by using a gun. Other than the recent story about the women who shot a guy in the face multiples times I couldn't tell you the last time I heard about how guns saved lives. 

It seems as very few people realize the try meaning of the 2nd amendment. It was put in place to allow us to protect ourselves from foreign and domestic affairs. We use it to save many lives from the idiotic, bad people that try to harm others. Fortunately, there has be no need to use it to protect ourselves from the government. It was put in place for times like these were the government is trying to become tyrannical. It's almost ironic how they are attempting to become tyrants on the very amendment that allows us to stop them. This finally hit me today. I was sitting in my history class when my history teacher got off course and started talking about the gun issue. He started talking about how the NRA just wants money and we need to stop the gun show loophole and assault weapon bans. I just started laughing. I then proceeded to ask him what the gun show loophole was. His response was "I don't know, but I've been 1 gun show and everyone their was a creep, just like the NRA. I then proceeded to tell him that my father was in the NRA and he apologized and claimed it was a generalization. I then asked him about the NRA only caring about money. He had no proof but instead "had a feeling". He then proceeded to ask me why I was against the assault rifle ban/high-mag ban. I said "why shouldn't I be allowed to have one?" He responded with the obvious, "you don't need one." I then went, "That's where your wrong. I need it to protect myself and my family, but the main reason is to allow myself and others to form a militia to protect ourselves from a tyrannical, out of control government." He started bumbling and finally was able to say, "Well the government won't get out of control, it's not possible." I said, "Your right, it worn get out of control because if it does the 2nd amendment allows us to stop it." He once again claimed it won't happen. My response was as follows, "Mr. Weiss, no one ever expected 9/11, nobody ever expected that a pet monkey would rip of a woman's face a few years ago, no one expected school kids in a small town to be shot by a crazy man. no one expected my 42 year old uncle to get cancer and die, my friend had a 16 year old cousin that spent 3 years battling a type of leukemia that only 40 year old men generally get, at one point nobody expected that same girl to even survive and today she is a student studying to become an nurse. The unexpected will happen, the unexpected has happened and will continue to happen. If we have our guns and our 2nd amendment is intact then it won't ever happen. We need these assault rifles for protection, if something terrible happens we need to have the ability to fight the government affectively." He was then speechless and said, "Well your a 15 year old kid,you don't need an assault rifle." My response was, your right, but my dad and other adults do for protection. He then proceeded to teach his class and after class he stopped me and said, "that was the best argument I've heard from any of my students on this topic, your brought up many great points that I can't refute." I thanked him and left. I don't expect him to have a huge change of heart, he is a 70 year old Vietnam veteran, but I at least showed him the answer as to why we need it and he respects the opinion.

I apologize for the long post but the dialogue between me and my teacher is the answer to why we need the 2nd amendment, specifically my responses. For those of you who haven't thought of it, or aren't spreading the answer as to why, please start doing so. Do it for yourselves and do it for the younger generation. Your fight will decided whether or not I can own these guns in a few years. So please fight hard for our rights and I will join you in the fight ASAP.


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## rentalrider

Kid, in 6yrs I'm going to buy you a beer (if alcohol is still legal)


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## MIhunt

rentalrider said:


> Kid, in 6yrs I'm going to buy you a beer (if alcohol is still legal)


I'm sure if guns go, alcohol won't be far behind.


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## Shiawassee_Kid

why aren't Paxil or zoloft being attacked? I believe that every mass shooting/murders and even suicides have all had 1 thing in common....anti-depressant drugs.

big pharma paying these politicians to distract us with a gun issue? lol. i mean theres tons more evidence pointing at drugs than ever...when you add in all the random suicides...pharma beats guns straight up for cause of deaths.


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## birdshooter

Kid your right on the money with that when I sat there watching Osama talk he brought up how the NRA funds certain members of congress and they need to step up over the campaign funds they get well what about the pharmaceuticals that funded his campaign knowing damn well that what really caused these shootings 


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## MIhunt

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> why aren't Paxil or zoloft being attacked? I believe that every mass shooting/murders and even suicides have all had 1 thing in common....anti-depressant drugs.
> 
> big pharma paying these politicians to distract us with a gun issue? lol. i mean theres tons more evidence pointing at drugs than ever...when you add in all the random suicides...pharma beats guns straight up for cause of deaths.


"Because its not the people that kill its the guns":banghead3:

I would rather see them ban or alter the process for drugs than guns. I would really like to see the time and money invested in gun control issues be used for something more useful.


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## stackemup

It's never about finding the problem that causes the bad, it's all always about how to deal with the fallout of bad things. Like the word in the name of this thread 'Control' That is all this is about. The erosion of more Liberty in our nation


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## gooseman

MIhunt said:


> The big problem in this debate is uneducated people, part of that is the media. How come you only hear when people are murdered with guns? You very, very rarely hear about someone who saves a life, or lives, by using a gun. Other than the recent story about the women who shot a guy in the face multiples times I couldn't tell you the last time I heard about how guns saved lives.
> 
> It seems as very few people realize the try meaning of the 2nd amendment. It was put in place to allow us to protect ourselves from foreign and domestic affairs. We use it to save many lives from the idiotic, bad people that try to harm others. Fortunately, there has be no need to use it to protect ourselves from the government. It was put in place for times like these were the government is trying to become tyrannical. It's almost ironic how they are attempting to become tyrants on the very amendment that allows us to stop them. This finally hit me today. I was sitting in my history class when my history teacher got off course and started talking about the gun issue. He started talking about how the NRA just wants money and we need to stop the gun show loophole and assault weapon bans. I just started laughing. I then proceeded to ask him what the gun show loophole was. His response was "I don't know, but I've been 1 gun show and everyone their was a creep, just like the NRA. I then proceeded to tell him that my father was in the NRA and he apologized and claimed it was a generalization. I then asked him about the NRA only caring about money. He had no proof but instead "had a feeling". He then proceeded to ask me why I was against the assault rifle ban/high-mag ban. I said "why shouldn't I be allowed to have one?" He responded with the obvious, "you don't need one." I then went, "That's where your wrong. I need it to protect myself and my family, but the main reason is to allow myself and others to form a militia to protect ourselves from a tyrannical, out of control government." He started bumbling and finally was able to say, "Well the government won't get out of control, it's not possible." I said, "Your right, it worn get out of control because if it does the 2nd amendment allows us to stop it." He once again claimed it won't happen. My response was as follows, "Mr. Weiss, no one ever expected 9/11, nobody ever expected that a pet monkey would rip of a woman's face a few years ago, no one expected school kids in a small town to be shot by a crazy man. no one expected my 42 year old uncle to get cancer and die, my friend had a 16 year old cousin that spent 3 years battling a type of leukemia that only 40 year old men generally get, at one point nobody expected that same girl to even survive and today she is a student studying to become an nurse. The unexpected will happen, the unexpected has happened and will continue to happen. If we have our guns and our 2nd amendment is intact then it won't ever happen. We need these assault rifles for protection, if something terrible happens we need to have the ability to fight the government affectively." He was then speechless and said, "Well your a 15 year old kid,you don't need an assault rifle." My response was, your right, but my dad and other adults do for protection. He then proceeded to teach his class and after class he stopped me and said, "that was the best argument I've heard from any of my students on this topic, your brought up many great points that I can't refute." I thanked him and left. I don't expect him to have a huge change of heart, he is a 70 year old Vietnam veteran, but I at least showed him the answer as to why we need it and he respects the opinion.
> 
> I apologize for the long post but the dialogue between me and my teacher is the answer to why we need the 2nd amendment, specifically my responses. For those of you who haven't thought of it, or aren't spreading the answer as to why, please start doing so. Do it for yourselves and do it for the younger generation. Your fight will decided whether or not I can own these guns in a few years. So please fight hard for our rights and I will join you in the fight ASAP.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


MIhunt - I commend you for standing up for what you believe is right. It is great to hear common sense logic from a young man. &#128077; 




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## sswhitelightning

gooseman said:


> MIhunt - I commend you for standing up for what you believe is right. It is great to hear common sense logic from a young man. &#128077;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Second that


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## younggun7

MIhunt said:


> The big problem in this debate is uneducated people, part of that is the media. How come you only hear when people are murdered with guns? You very, very rarely hear about someone who saves a life, or lives, by using a gun. Other than the recent story about the women who shot a guy in the face multiples times I couldn't tell you the last time I heard about how guns saved lives.
> 
> It seems as very few people realize the try meaning of the 2nd amendment. It was put in place to allow us to protect ourselves from foreign and domestic affairs. We use it to save many lives from the idiotic, bad people that try to harm others. Fortunately, there has be no need to use it to protect ourselves from the government. It was put in place for times like these were the government is trying to become tyrannical. It's almost ironic how they are attempting to become tyrants on the very amendment that allows us to stop them. This finally hit me today. I was sitting in my history class when my history teacher got off course and started talking about the gun issue. He started talking about how the NRA just wants money and we need to stop the gun show loophole and assault weapon bans. I just started laughing. I then proceeded to ask him what the gun show loophole was. His response was "I don't know, but I've been 1 gun show and everyone their was a creep, just like the NRA. I then proceeded to tell him that my father was in the NRA and he apologized and claimed it was a generalization. I then asked him about the NRA only caring about money. He had no proof but instead "had a feeling". He then proceeded to ask me why I was against the assault rifle ban/high-mag ban. I said "why shouldn't I be allowed to have one?" He responded with the obvious, "you don't need one." I then went, "That's where your wrong. I need it to protect myself and my family, but the main reason is to allow myself and others to form a militia to protect ourselves from a tyrannical, out of control government." He started bumbling and finally was able to say, "Well the government won't get out of control, it's not possible." I said, "Your right, it worn get out of control because if it does the 2nd amendment allows us to stop it." He once again claimed it won't happen. My response was as follows, "Mr. Weiss, no one ever expected 9/11, nobody ever expected that a pet monkey would rip of a woman's face a few years ago, no one expected school kids in a small town to be shot by a crazy man. no one expected my 42 year old uncle to get cancer and die, my friend had a 16 year old cousin that spent 3 years battling a type of leukemia that only 40 year old men generally get, at one point nobody expected that same girl to even survive and today she is a student studying to become an nurse. The unexpected will happen, the unexpected has happened and will continue to happen. If we have our guns and our 2nd amendment is intact then it won't ever happen. We need these assault rifles for protection, if something terrible happens we need to have the ability to fight the government affectively." He was then speechless and said, "Well your a 15 year old kid,you don't need an assault rifle." My response was, your right, but my dad and other adults do for protection. He then proceeded to teach his class and after class he stopped me and said, "that was the best argument I've heard from any of my students on this topic, your brought up many great points that I can't refute." I thanked him and left. I don't expect him to have a huge change of heart, he is a 70 year old Vietnam veteran, but I at least showed him the answer as to why we need it and he respects the opinion.
> 
> I apologize for the long post but the dialogue between me and my teacher is the answer to why we need the 2nd amendment, specifically my responses. For those of you who haven't thought of it, or aren't spreading the answer as to why, please start doing so. Do it for yourselves and do it for the younger generation. Your fight will decided whether or not I can own these guns in a few years. So please fight hard for our rights and I will join you in the fight ASAP.]
> 
> You've got balls kid. Many grown man wouldn't stand up like. You should be damn proud of yourself! I second the buying of the beer!!:beer:


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## ESOX

Teacher needs a little history lesson.............


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## Brooke11

anyone see this video yet?? Not saying i believe it but its interesting....


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## dead short

This is just a small clip of the whole thing. Ever see the movie "Wag the Dog"?

I'm now selling tinfoil hats. $4. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzEgrUwfeU4&sns=em 


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## BangBangBang

Funny how a HISTORY teacher can sit there and with a straight face say " The government won't get out of control". Ha. That guy has no sense of irony nor hypocrisy. And he obviously missed all his history lessons.

Then to find out he's Vietnam Vet!?! Huh WHat!?!?:yikes: WTH happened there?


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## Robert Holmes

In New York City Alone there is probably over a million gun owners who own 3 or more guns. Registering those guns takes time and manpower. I for one would not be standing in a long line to register a gun that for all practical purposes the city does not know that I own. Any democrat politician that is for gun control has a very short career and will be replaced by a republican. As soon as the republican is in office they will repeal all of the gun control laws. Thus gun control won't work.


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## John Singer

Brooke11 said:


> anyone see this video yet?? Not saying i believe it but its interesting....
> 
> I am so glad that the conspiracy theorists are exposing this story and harassing the man that aided school children so that the truth can prevail:
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162...ds-during-newtown-shooting-claims-harassment/
> 
> BTW: I heard that the holocaust, the moon landings, 911 and Jennifer Lopez's orgasms were faked too.


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## SBE II

Notice any trends here?:help:

http://www.wnd.com/2013/01/chicago-murders-top-afghanistan-death-toll/


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## wavie

* See the stastistic at the bottom of the page.............*

From the World Health Organization:

The latest Murder Statistics for the world:

Murders per 100,000 citizens

Honduras 91.6
El Salvador 69.2
Cote d'lvoire 56.9
Jamaica 52.2
Venezuela 45.1
Belize 41.4
US Virgin Islands 39.2
Guatemala 38.5
Saint Kits and Nevis 38.2
Zambia 38.0
Uganda 36.3
Malawi 36.0
Lesotho 35.2
Trinidad and Tobago 35.2
Colombia 33.4
South Africa 31.8
Congo 30.8
Central African Republic 29.3
Bahamas 27.4
Puerto Rico 26.2
Saint Lucia 25.2
Dominican Republic 25.0
Tanzania 24.5
Sudan 24.2
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 22.9
Ethiopia 22.5
Guinea 22.5
Dominica 22.1
Burundi 21.7
Democratic Republic of the Congo 21.7
Panama 21.6
Brazil 21.0
Equatorial Guinea 20.7
Guinea-Bissau 20.2
Kenya 20.1
Kyrgyzstan 20.1
Cameroon 19.7
Montserrat 19.7
Greenland 19.2
Angola 19.0
Guyana 18.6
Burkina Faso 18.0
Eritrea 17.8
Namibia 17.2
Rwanda 17.1
Mexico 16.9
Chad 15.8
Ghana 15.7
Ecuador 15.2
North Korea 15.2
Benin 15.1
Sierra Leone 14.9
Mauritania 14.7
Botswana 14.5
Zimbabwe 14.3
Gabon 13.8
Nicaragua 13.6
French Guiana 13.3
Papua New Guinea 13.0
Swaziland 12.9
Bermuda 12.3
Comoros 12.2
Nigeria 12.2
Cape Verde 11.6
Grenada 11.5
Paraguay 11.5
Barbados 11.3
Togo 10.9
Gambia 10.8
Peru 10.8
Myanmar 10.2
Russia 10.2
Liberia 10.1
Costa Rica 10.0
Nauru 9.8
Bolivia 8.9
Mozambique 8.8
Kazakhstan 8.8
Senegal 8.7
Turks and Caicos Islands 8.7
Mongolia 8.7
British Virgin Islands 8.6
Cayman Islands 8.4
Seychelles 8.3
Madagascar 8.1
Indonesia 8.1
Mali 8.0
Pakistan 7.8
Moldova 7.5
Kiribati 7.3
Guadeloupe 7.0
Haiti 6.9
Timor-Leste 6.9
Anguilla 6.8
Antigua and Barbuda 6.8
Lithuania 6.6
Uruguay 5.9
Philippines 5.4
Ukraine 5.2
Estonia 5.2
Cuba 5.0
Belarus 4.9
Thailand 4.8
Suriname 4.6
Laos 4.6
Georgia 4.3
Martinique 4.2

And

The United States 4.2

*ALL the countries above America have 100% gun bans*


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## Shiawassee_Kid

thats the best stat breakdown i've seen yet. you have the source?


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## wavie

Robert Holmes said:


> I for one would not be standing in a long line to register a gun that for all practical purposes the city does not know that I own.


When Canada tried to implement their gun registration to the tune of several BILLIONS of dollars wasted, I cant tell you the number of people i knew that actually buried their guns in fear of them being confiscated if they had not registered a particular gun.


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## wavie

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> thats the best stat breakdown i've seen yet. you have the source?


Dan, it was from the WHO website, emailed to me by a friend in Canada.


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## WoW.

wavie said:


> Dan, it was from the WHO website, emailed to me by a friend in Canada.


 
Somebody come up with a link please...that is the kinda thing that people like to see.


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## Bellyup

Is it just me, or does anyone else see the Executive Orders NoBoama issued yesterday as B.S. ? Some appear to simply be common sense, and some simply don't make any sense. Why the heck do you need to issue an executuve order to appoint a director to the ATF ? Does it not already have a person in charge ? If not, then it has been broke for a long, long time. 

I do see a ton of gray area in these orders, and that scares me. It leaves a lot open to interpretation and it could get a foothold somehow. His reccomendations to congress and the senate I don't think stand a chance in hell. 

If anything gets through, it is time to take a stance. Flat out, no qualms about it, NO. Refuse to obey.


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## justsaygeo

1ludman said:


> I know Mr. Potatoe Head feels safer.:lol::lol:


What about a tater totgun:sly:

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## wavie

Didnt dive into the nitty gritty, but it was obtained from this site:

http://badgerlakeobserver.blogspot.com/2013/01/world-health-organization-murder.html?spref=tw

UN study is linked at the bottom.

OK, saw that Mexico was on the list and did some quick looking up. They do not have a total ban. This is what it states:

As a result of the changes to Article 10 of the Mexican Constitution and the enactment of the Federal Law of Firearms and Explosives, openly carrying a firearm or carrying a concealed weapon in public is virtually forbidden to private citizens, unless explicitly authorized by the Secretariat of National Defense (SEDENA). For purposes of personal protection, firearms are only permitted within the place of residence and of the type and caliber permitted by law.

Almost all African countries do have a complete ban on citizens possesing firearms.


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## dhosera

Here is the summary
The announcement is over, and Obama is signing the 23 executive actions. These actions are in addition to laws that Obama wants Congress to pass. Here, according to the White House, are the 23 executive actions that he and his administration will do:

1. "Issue a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system."

2. "Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system."

3. "Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system."

4. "Direct the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks."

5. "Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun."

6. "Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers."

7. "Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign."

8. "Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission)."

9. "Issue a presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations."

10. "Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement."

11. "Nominate an ATF director."

12. "Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations."

13. "Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime."

14. "Issue a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence."

15. "Direct the attorney general to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies."

16. "Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes."

17. "Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities."

18. "Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers."

19. "Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education."

20. "Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover."

21. "Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges."

22. "Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations."

23. "Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health."

And the LINK:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/wh_now_is_the_time_full.pdf


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## GabeSki

dhosera said:


> 6. "Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers."


Could this mean that private to private sales are going to have to be completed through an FFL dealer? is this the solution to the "gun show loophole"?

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## John Singer

The letter from the ATF to FFls is here: http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2...s-of-firearms-between-private-individuals.pdf


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## Tiny

OBAMA WINS!!!!!!!!! Just looking at this thread over the last few days has been interesting. Some say the exectutive orders seem ok, others say why do you need that type of gun, etc. Well the progressive liberals continue to divide us. Make no mistake the progressive liberal agenda is:

1) Nationalized Healthcare, they got it.
2) Gun control, they will get it.
3) A punitve tax system, they will get this beyond the recent fiscal cliff tax hike.
4) Meaning less spending to buy votes so they stay in office. 

The country carried Obama in the election, the state of Michigan carried Obama in the election. We deserve everything we will get the next 4 years. For those of you with children, can you honestly say with a straight face we are leaving them a better country than what our parents left us??

H _ LL NO!!!!!!


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## Rasputin

I'm amazed this administration came up with 23 exec orders in just a few short weeks, but haven't been able to put together a budget in 4 years. Just shows they are more interested in power and politics than in actually governing.

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## dhosera

To the last post!


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## Ranger Ray

MIhunt said:


> I'm sure if guns go, alcohol won't be far behind.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


You want illegal guns on the street? Just bring back prohibition :lol: Oh and here is a little added fact, some of the most violent times involving gun violence was 1929. The guns being used were not of the legal kind.


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## mrbeachtc

Rasputin said:


> I'm amazed this administration came up with 23 exec orders in just a few short weeks, but haven't been able to put together a budget in 4 years. Just shows they are more interested in power and politics than in actually governing.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Yup

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## TNL

Tiny said:


> OBAMA WINS!!!!!!!!!


Not really. We did...at least this battle. It's been reported that he wanted to jump in the deep end of the pool with an EO banning ARs, hi cap mags, and background checks. He also wanted confiscation to be part of the plan. Advisors talked him down from the ledge the night before and he was furious. They advised that he would receive little opposition to his toothless 23 EOs and that Congress would have to do the heavy lifting for the bans. If it passes, he's a hero. If it doesn't, he can blame Congress and move on with the rest of his agenda. Politics.

Right now, it's the Senate democrats that give this any chance at passing. Harry Reid said O's original plan was a no-go the night before along with O's advisors. The NRA basically allowed Reid to be elected by endorsing him in pro-gun NV. They also gave him an "A" rating. Reid knows he owes them. The majority is tight in the Senate and we need all the help we can get. Email Stabenow and Levin your thoughts - they need to hear it from their constituents. Either one could be the swing vote on this thing. Another battle to be fought and won.

O is also going to hit the trail to appeal directly to the public so they call their Congressmen. We need to keep the full court press on them. Yet another battle.

The House looks safe, but with politics, you never know. A compromise may happen so they can pass their own agenda which may not be firearm related. Contact your Reps and keep vigilant.

Where's a man like Teddy when you need him?


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## TNL

Ranger Ray said:


> You want illegal guns on the street? Just bring back prohibition :lol: Oh and here is a little added fact, some of the most violent times involving gun violence was 1929. The guns being used were not of the legal kind.


They actually were legal back then.  The National Firearm Act of 1934 (FDR) outlawed machine guns, sawed off shotguns and rifles as well as other destructive weapons in a response to the gangster wars going on because of prohibition.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 (LBJ) tightened things up with more restrictions and the new FFL law as a result of the assassinations of JFK, MLK, RFK, Mal X. The Act had a great impact on future assassination attempts. See Reagan and Ford. 

Do you see a trend here with Dem Presidents? FDR, LBJ, BHO?


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## just ducky

TNL said:


> Not really. We did...at least this battle. It's been reported that he wanted to jump in the deep end of the pool with an EO banning ARs, hi cap mags, and background checks. He also wanted confiscation to be part of the plan. Advisors talked him down from the ledge the night before and he was furious. They advised that he would receive little opposition to his toothless 23 EOs and that Congress would have to do the heavy lifting for the bans. If it passes, he's a hero. If it doesn't, he can blame Congress and move on with the rest of his agenda. Politics.


yep, this is the game, whether it's in DC or Lansing. Politics at it's finest. Ya think this kinda thing isn't happening here in Lansing? The Gov has the same kind of thing happening every day (i.e. the gun legislation result).


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## STEINFISHSKI

TNL said:


> Not really. We did...at least this battle. It's been reported that he wanted to jump in the deep end of the pool with an EO banning ARs, hi cap mags, and background checks. He also wanted confiscation to be part of the plan. Advisors talked him down from the ledge the night before and he was furious. They advised that he would receive little opposition to his toothless 23 EOs and that Congress would have to do the heavy lifting for the bans. If it passes, he's a hero. If it doesn't, he can blame Congress and move on with the rest of his agenda. Politics.
> 
> Right now, it's the Senate democrats that give this any chance at passing. Harry Reid said O's original plan was a no-go the night before along with O's advisors. The NRA basically allowed Reid to be elected by endorsing him in pro-gun NV. They also gave him an "A" rating. Reid knows he owes them. The majority is tight in the Senate and we need all the help we can get. Email Stabenow and Levin your thoughts - they need to hear it from their constituents. Either one could be the swing vote on this thing. Another battle to be fought and won.
> 
> O is also going to hit the trail to appeal directly to the public so they call their Congressmen. We need to keep the full court press on them. Yet another battle.
> 
> The House looks safe, but with politics, you never know. A compromise may happen so they can pass their own agenda which may not be firearm related. Contact your Reps and keep vigilant.
> 
> Where's a man like Teddy when you need him?


Another thought is just like Obamacare, fiscal cliff talks, they will throw down a package in the last hour that "must be passed quickly". We can figure out what's in it later. In doing this there is no telling what kind of special interest pork is added. This seems to be the new standard for Washington and some scary stuff.


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