# Another Neighbor Story



## Osceola (Jul 21, 2016)

I have an aggravating neighbor story. I realize there's no advice you guys can offer that will help much, but you might be able to commiserate with me or console me in some way.

Part of my property is a "front forty" with road frontage. The "back forty" was inherited by a local, retired non-hunter. His forty is landlocked, but a 99 year lease agreement was put in place 65 years ago that allows him access to his property using a two-track that runs along my property line between my 40 and another 20 I own. Essentially, he has the legal right to drive through my property any time he wants. I knew this when I bought the parcel, but decided it was still worth it and, so far, it has been. I don't regret it...yet.

The problem is he is retired, lives locally and takes his John Deere Gator to the property almost daily, sometimes several times a day, year round. I've politely asked him to refrain from driving through my property during hunting season, but it doesn't stop him. At first I thought he's just a non-hunter and doesn't get it. Now I think he understands, but just doesn't care. I have been gracious and generous to him, allowing loggers to access his property through mine (not the leased road because it's impassable for large vehicles) without compensation. My generosity has only been rewarded with his lack of courtesy during hunting season. 

I have offered to buy the property from him, but he's not interested in selling. 

I should just count my blessings that he is a non-hunter. Things could be much worse for me if I had to deal with slob hunters driving through my property and hunting next to me. In fact, that's my greatest fear...that he leases, gives permission or sells to the wrong kind of people.

Should I make another offer to buy, even if I have to pay above market to make sure this never happens? How aggressive should I be about acquiring this property?


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## micooner (Dec 20, 2003)

In 34 years you will be in the driver's seat. Lol Really I would just smile and wave. Put an offer to buy and or lease on paper so he knows your serious. Never let him know your aggravated by his driving down his legal easement.


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## AnesthesiaOutdoors (Jul 28, 2019)

What does he do on his property that he needs to do it every day? Is he potentially trying to screw up your hunting?


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## wpmisport (Feb 9, 2010)

If that is the worst thing interfering with you hunting you have it very good. Just one guy driving back to his property on a gator is not bad and could be a lot worse.


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## bowhunter42 (Aug 22, 2012)

You souls hunt state land if you want it to yourself..


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## Joe Archer (Mar 29, 2000)

If he drives every day, the deer are more than used to it. Deer aren't afraid of vehicles.
<----<<<


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## gatorman841 (Mar 4, 2010)

wpmisport said:


> If that is the worst thing interfering with you hunting you have it very good. Just one guy driving back to his property on a gator is not bad and could be a lot worse.


Not really when your paying $100,000 plus for property. That’s horrible imo , that’s why you buy property to get away from people I thought? I never would have bought property in first place if he knew this and if he can’t buy his either deal with him or sell. Not much else you can do if a legal agreement is signed. Bad situation if those don’t think it’s bad they must not own their own property. I deal with enough trespassers to have to deal with legal trespassers to


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## lreigler (Dec 23, 2009)

wpmisport said:


> If that is the worst thing interfering with you hunting you have it very good. Just one guy driving back to his property on a gator is not bad and could be a lot worse.


I agree and have two thoughts. 
A) I and many others in my immediate area own and drive side by sides. I have personally seen deer heads pop up as we drive by and stay put. As long as it’s common they do lot associate it with danger. 
B) it would not take a ton of effort to screen the road with miscanthus/sorghum/pines. If this is a common issue and it bothers you this would be a step to reduce his impact. 

I agree that a written offer could go a long way. He may not want to sell now but life happens fast.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Agree with Joe.
Deer want through/across or to bed near the road they'll have no problem with the gator.
It's just traffic. And they are used to hearing it. 
I've a previous example of a u.t.v. next door that deer about ignored in the same field. But really ignored after it was off the field.

Neighbor not caring about when to run through ...Well ,he's legally entitled to be that way.
Heck of a attitude when you're gracious to him. (Timber harvest access). But , that's how the neighbor is today. He'd be lucky not to earn a hard ear (and be told why) asking for any future favors if my neighbor..

IF that easement use bothered me enough (and potential future use of it till it's yours..) I'd study right of way required (if any) and start planting screens.

When that time expires on the easement....I'd be laughing. (Well ,who ever owns what I used to would.)

An easement runs through it. (Sound like a movie? l.o.l.)
It is what it is.
Focus on enjoying it.


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## Rowdy Bandit (Mar 22, 2016)

Look on the bright side.

34 years or less.


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## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

Ask to lease (his/yours) 2 track for the hunting season. Pay him not to use it. Sounds strange but might work. 


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## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

Joe Archer said:


> If he drives every day, the deer are more than used to it. Deer aren't afraid of vehicles.
> <----<<<


I'm not so sure of that. I'm not too far from the OP and there are some fields I glass where the deer can be a half mile away and take off when you stop your ride to look.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Radar420 said:


> I'm not so sure of that. I'm not too far from the OP and there are some fields I glass where the deer can be a half mile away and take off when you stop your ride to look.


Stopping and looking at them is not normal activity for them .
Focus arouses suspicion.
Who knows what those deer have experienced at night?

I left the tractor out where I hunt. Sat a few feet away from it.
Local deer knew the tractor from it working there. Obviously.
Deer moved along near it and one nearly brushed against it sitting there stopped. Why didn't it run away instead?

I have a permit to hunt from a standing vehicle. What are my odds of killing deer from one? Hint , none are recalled running upon spotting the vehicle.
Sure it can be out of place and be noticed. Then what?


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## Old lund (Apr 20, 2016)

Radar420 said:


> I'm not so sure of that. I'm not too far from the OP and there are some fields I glass where the deer can be a half mile away and take off when you stop your ride to look.


That’s the catch they run when the vehicle stops , so with him driving thru they will just watch him go by then resume after he is out of sight / sound . 
I wouldn’t worry about it at all , a place I hunt during firearms season the property owner is known to swing by the blind with a hot bowl of chili , chips , candy bar and drink around noon . And I’ve had deer around before chilli is gone


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## Osceola (Jul 21, 2016)

AnesthesiaOutdoors said:


> What does he do on his property that he needs to do it every day? Is he potentially trying to screw up your hunting?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


I don't know why he goes out there so often. It may just be that he is bored and likes to take joy rides on his Gator and check things out everyday. I don't think he's purposely trying to screw up my hunting. He usually visits toward the middle of the day, avoiding mornings and evenings.


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

Radar420 said:


> I'm not so sure of that. I'm not too far from the OP and there are some fields I glass where the deer can be a half mile away and take off when you stop your ride to look.


Who is night hunting in that area at night. That is a good sign that someone has been. I go thru mine all the time with our mule and tractor and most time the deer just lay there and watch. If I was to stop and shut the motor off then they get up ready to move.


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## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

Waif said:


> Stopping and looking at them is not normal activity for them .
> Focus arouses suspicion.
> Who knows what those deer have experienced at night?
> 
> ...


I don't know.

Why would the deer by my cabin come feed within 30ft of my jeep in the early morning but the deer 400+yds away in the alfalfa field kitty-corner from me run bat out of hell when I pull out the driveway in the same morning?

Being the neighbor is a non-hunter, how do we know that he doesn't stop to view deer anytime he sees them?


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## johnhunter247 (Mar 12, 2011)

You knew the deal when you bought it. How can you be frustrated with something you knew going in? You signed on the dotted line. No way in hell I would have bought into something like that. Your just asking for misery. Especially if your a die hard whitetail hunter. I would have two options if I was in your shoes. 
Option 1: Buy him out ASAP!
Option 2: sell, buy something else and stay away from bulls#%t like that. 
Believe me I understand the frustration but your situation is like buying a house next to an airport then complaining about the noise. Good luck!


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

I want to be able and am able to access my property whenever I want, I bet his neighbor feels the same.


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## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

Scout 2 said:


> Who is night hunting in that area at night. That is a good sign that someone has been. I go thru mine all the time with our mule and tractor and most time the deer just lay there and watch. If I was to stop and shut the motor off then they get up ready to move.


No clue. I've experienced it on multiple farms in the area. Usually during the morning - evenings the deer seem to stay still typically. 

I also do a lot of shining - it's been many years since I've witnessed road/night hunting (not that it doesn't happen)


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## Osceola (Jul 21, 2016)

It's impossible to know how much his activity impacts my hunting, but it's safe to say it doesn't help.

I've been generous to him and only asked for a little courtesy in return, to which he has thumbed his nose. His lease extends 20 feet from the property line, but the two-track actually winds and curves around trees in several places definitely outside the 20 feet. I suppose I could demand that he remove trees and keep his travel within the 20 foot lease, but I'm not that kind of guy.

This is not the end of the world and I don't lose sleep over it. Like I said, my bigger fear is that he leases or gives hunting permission to someone else. The wrong people could make things much worse.

What I really want to know is how to go about acquiring the land from someone not too eager to sell.


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## Walt Donaldson (Feb 23, 2015)

Osceola said:


> What I really want to know is how to go about acquiring the land from someone not too eager to sell.


Give him an offer he cannot refuse.


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## Walt Donaldson (Feb 23, 2015)

johnhunter247 said:


> You knew the deal when you bought it. How can you be frustrated with something you knew going in? You signed on the dotted line. No way in hell I would have bought into something like that. Your just asking for misery. Especially if your a die hard whitetail hunter. I would have two options if I was in your shoes.
> Option 1: Buy him out ASAP!
> Option 2: sell, buy something else and stay away from bulls#%t like that.
> Believe me I understand the frustration but your situation is like buying a house next to an airport then complaining about the noise. Good luck!
> ...


Whoa! Too much coffee this morning  

The airport analogy is not a particularly good one.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Osceola said:


> It's impossible to know how much his activity impacts my hunting, but it's safe to say it doesn't help.
> 
> I've been generous to him and only asked for a little courtesy in return, to which he has thumbed his nose. His lease extends 20 feet from the property line, but the two-track actually winds and curves around trees in several places definitely outside the 20 feet. I suppose I could demand that he remove trees and keep his travel within the 20 foot lease, but I'm not that kind of guy.
> 
> ...


How much would it take to buy yours if I could drive you to the closing next week? 
Hopefully not much above actual value , but still profitable for both of us.
But there have been cases like the one guy who sold his place told me...(he was not trying to sell) "They offered me too much."


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## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

Osceola said:


> What I really want to know is how to go about acquiring the land from someone not too eager to sell.


Do you have any idea how much his parcel is worth? I'd imagine it's actual value is below market rate due to it being landlocked and the easement.

You could offer him above market value now and suffer a bit of a loss (monetarily) but you'll gain peace of mind and your parcel will increase in value because you'll have 100 contiguous acres and no easement if/when you decide to sell.

The biggest issue is if the parcel holds some intrinsic value to him since it was inherited - then no amount of money will be able to purchase it..


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## Osceola (Jul 21, 2016)

Waif said:


> How much would it take to buy yours if I could drive you to the closing next week?
> Hopefully not much above actual value , but still profitable for both of us.
> But there have been cases like the one guy who sold his place told me...(he was not trying to sell) "They offered me too much."


Now we're getting to the heart of the matter and I know I'm the only one that can answer the question: how much is it worth to you?

His property is not worth much to me in terms of hunting or timber. He's already had it logged and the big storm in August 2018 took out most of what was left. If I owned it, I probably wouldn't even hunt it. I'd just leave it alone as a 40 acre tangled mess of bedding cover and draw deer to my food plots on the front forty.

So how much should I pay to own something just so others can't interfere with what I already own?


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## Osceola (Jul 21, 2016)

Radar420 said:


> Do you have any idea how much his parcel is worth?...


Good question. I'm guessing it's worth $1000-$1500 per acre, but he probably thinks it's worth $2000/ac. I don't think I'd pay $80,000 for peace of mind, but I might pay $50,000.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Osceola said:


> Now we're getting to the heart of the matter and I know I'm the only one that can answer the question: how much is it worth to you?
> 
> His property is not worth much to me in terms of hunting or timber. He's already had it logged and the big storm in August 2018 took out most of what was left. If I owned it, I probably wouldn't even hunt it. I'd just leave it alone as a 40 acre tangled mess of bedding cover and draw deer to my food plots on the front forty.
> 
> So how much should I pay to own something just so others can't interfere with what I already own?


A lot depends on your finances and future financial planning.
Emotion is my fight in a recent opportunity.
But logic does not promise any great gain beyond...nostalgia for what was , and what could be.

A little over market value is where I would start...IF I thought I had to buy an adjacent parcel.
Then if not countered by the owner , just let it fester. The owner would know I'd like to acquire it..And am prepared.
Maybe he'll think of what he could do with the money...Too much. If not he'll know a buyer when/if he sells.

A former neighbor turned down the adjacent properties counter offer after inspiring the not intended to be selling owner to consider selling. (Say that three times fast...)
The former not looking to sell seller was inspired to sell though!
And did , to my then grumbling neighbors discontent.
Thing is , the counter offered was not unreasonable for the area's market value at all....
Ah well...He brought that on himself.


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## AnesthesiaOutdoors (Jul 28, 2019)

Osceola said:


> Good question. I'm guessing it's worth $1000-$1500 per acre, but he probably thinks it's worth $2000/ac. I don't think I'd pay $80,000 for peace of mind, but I might pay $50,000.


What part of the state are you in? Out of the multiple pieces of property we looked at, the cheapest came in at $3,000/acre. 

I hear you on your other points. It’s an annoyance to have someone constantly driving by, even if they aren’t doing it with malice in their heart. But like you said, it could always be worse. 

Everyone would like to be able to buy out their neighbors and have more property to manage/hunt but that’s definitely not always feasible monetarily. I hope for your sake that he begins to consider your wishes from October-December. 


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## Rowdy Bandit (Mar 22, 2016)

I can't wait to hear if the next offer is accepted or rejected.


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## Osceola (Jul 21, 2016)

AnesthesiaOutdoors said:


> What part of the state are you in? Out of the multiple pieces of property we looked at, the cheapest came in at $3,000/acre.


Osceola County. It's a different animal than down-state, which is how I could afford my 60 acres to begin with. I bought the front 40 with a small lake, hard and soft mast, and mature hardwoods five years ago for $55,000.


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## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

Osceola said:


> Now we're getting to the heart of the matter and I know I'm the only one that can answer the question: how much is it worth to you?
> 
> His property is not worth much to me in terms of hunting or timber. He's already had it logged and the big storm in August 2018 took out most of what was left. If I owned it, I probably wouldn't even hunt it. I'd just leave it alone as a 40 acre tangled mess of bedding cover and draw deer to my food plots on the front forty.
> 
> So how much should I pay to own something just so others can't interfere with what I already own?


I get where you're coming from - we had a similar situation recently. The property across the road from us went up for sale a few years ago - 80 acres with ~30 tillable. Wasn't really interested in that parcel but the sign went up Fri and by the time I looked it up on Monday the sale was already pending at 1700/acre which was pretty good IMO. Now the neighbor to the south (the property I would want) put his property up at the same time. He wanted 3500/acre which is totally not worth it to me. Other people must feel the same because he took it off the market.

Now if you had gobs of money, you could be like one of my clients in Birmingham. Her neighbor's house went up for sale and she scooped it up for 600k because she didn't want to hear kids playing.


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## jstec (Apr 3, 2012)

You need to think outside of the box and try to figure out away to use this as advantage . Just like hunting over pressured public land . My uncle that was a great fisherman told if you want to catch fish you have to think like a fish same goes with hunting deer. Deer don't always do the obvious.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Bide your time, and wait for the next time he wants Loggers to come logoff some of his timber for profit - and then refuse to let them on your property to do the work. If he questions that, explain that you have nicely asked him not to drive through during hunting season, and he has refused your reasonable request, so you changed your mind. 

Reasonable people reach reasonable conclusions. He needs to learn that he isn't reasonable with your request.


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## Riva (Aug 10, 2006)

If he won't accept a fair offer, and you're adamant about this being a bad situation, then you might consider playing hardball.

You say that the trail meanders on to your property at some spots. Is this right of way platted? If yes, then he is trespassing. In order to avoid trespassing, he will have to remove trees. That involves time, labor and money (money being the most important component). He might come to the conclusion that all of this this, suddenly, is not worth it.

The key to this strategy, however, is you. If the trail is defined and recorded, you win--provided you do not waffle. Perhaps you should consider putting up some sort of barrier along the current trail where it breaches onto your property. Then, he'll have to act, one way of the other.


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## Osceola (Jul 21, 2016)

Fishndude said:


> Bide your time, and wait for the next time he wants Loggers to come logoff some of his timber for profit - and then refuse to let them on your property to do the work. If he questions that, explain that you have nicely asked him not to drive through during hunting season, and he has refused your reasonable request, so you changed your mind.
> 
> Reasonable people reach reasonable conclusions. He needs to learn that he isn't reasonable with your request.


He won't be logging again during his lifetime. He had it select cut in 2017 with the plan to do it again in 10-15 years. The storm in 2018 leveled almost everything he had standing. He's been selling the fallen trees as firewood. Maybe now that the property is stripped of any timber value, he will be more willing to sell. He's milking it for all it's worth. That's why I'm worried he will decide to lease the hunting rights next.


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## Osceola (Jul 21, 2016)

Riva said:


> If he won't accept a fair offer, and you're adamant about this being a bad situation, then you might consider playing hardball.
> 
> You say that the trail meanders on to your property at some spots. Is this right of way platted? If yes, then he is trespassing. In order to avoid trespassing, he will have to remove trees. That involves time, labor and money (money being the most important component). He might come to the conclusion that all of this this, suddenly, is not worth it.
> 
> The key to this strategy, however, is you. If the trail is defined and recorded, you win--provided you do not waffle. Perhaps you should consider putting up some sort of barrier along the current trail where it breaches onto your property. Then, he'll have to act, one way of the other.


I've thought about using my legal leverage, but I just don't think creating an adversarial relationship with him will help my cause. I want him to sell me the property. Playing hardball might backfire.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

If he doesn't want to be agreeable, why should you?
Have the easement surveyed and then fence it. He gets what he's entitled to and no more.

I you really want to be un-neighborly when he tries to make any improvements on the easement, fight him every inch of the way. It's your property and he's to maintain it (provided that's what the lease says) but you want your land restored to original condition. You could play this game with him long enough to get him to surrender to compromise.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Who is actually creating the adversarial relationship? Hmmmmmmm. I'll bet your deer love to feed on his newly pastured land.


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## Osceola (Jul 21, 2016)

Fishndude said:


> I'll bet your deer love to feed on his newly pastured land.


I'm glad I started this thread because just writing about an issue helps clarify my thinking. I appreciate you guys being my sounding board.

Having 40 acres of un-hunted, thick, nasty cover next to my hunting ground is actually a pretty nice situation. If all I have to do is put up with him driving his Gator back and forth everyday, that's a decent trade-off.

My big fear is lack of control. What if he leases or gives hunting permission to someone else? They could really mess things up for me in a hurry.


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## Osceola (Jul 21, 2016)

bluealaskan said:


> I agree that I would talk t an attorney and show him the lease. Is it possible that the lease would be void after you purchased the land. It is between the other landowners. I understand it transfers on his side, but does it on yours?


I'm pretty sure the clause, "their heirs and assigns", extends the lease to future owners of both properties.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Osceola said:


> I'm pretty sure the clause, "their heirs and assigns", extends the lease to future owners of both properties.


I'm certain it applies to grantee but not so sure that it'd apply to the grantor (you).


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## Osceola (Jul 21, 2016)

Just to put things in perspective, my situation is similar to having public road frontage along my property line, except a public road would have much more traffic than one daily Gator. Unless you're landlocked, if you own hunting land, your property has an easement that allows anyone to drive down your property line any time they want.

Part of my reason for pointing this out is that I actually see my situation as positive rather than negative. If I can manage to purchase the back forty, I can completely close off traffic along one side of my property. Most landowners do not have this possibility.


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## uofmball1 (Oct 31, 2005)

Have you asked him to take you on a ride through his property? You might be able to learn a lot from that ride of why he does it and he might be able to learn a lot from you. I think Waif was taking earlier about a guy going to a golf course. This might be what he looks forward to everyday. If you are able to build a good relationship you might be able to have him give you the first right of refusal for any lease/purchase of the property.


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## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

I think a couple perfectly placed wind blown trees across the 2 track come late September would solve some problems. 


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## micooner (Dec 20, 2003)

Yeah that's what I would do. NOT. Start antagonizing him and see how quick his middle of the day rides increases to morning and sunset rides. Stir him up and the 1000 an acre value goes to 2000 when you want to buy. I would do nothing other than make him a standing offer to buy or lease. Other than that just live with it. Jmho


sniper said:


> I think a couple perfectly placed wind blown trees across the 2 track come late September would solve some problems.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

What I'd really do if I was in this situation is befriend the guy, by him a drink and thank him for looking after my property while I'm away. 
I too believe that his traffic and distributing scent is conditioning the deer to human activity and their scent. If you take some precautions about your scent, you should do well.


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## Osceola (Jul 21, 2016)

FREEPOP said:


> What I'd really do if I was in this situation is befriend the guy, by him a drink and thank him for looking after my property while I'm away.
> I too believe that his traffic and distributing scent is conditioning the deer to human activity and their scent. If you take some precautions about your scent, you should do well.


You actually bring up a really good point I hadn't thought of. His daily activity (tracks going in and out), may be discouraging trespassers. This guy may be benefiting me more than I know.


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

Life is a state of mind. The solution is to enjoy yourself. Your problem is not all that bad, considering what it could be. Treat him with respect, and more than likely, he will treat you with respect. Sounds like his compromise, was to go there in the middle of the day. Your want for him to leave his property alone during hunting season, was unreasonable. You may get it in the end anyway, by taking the high road. I will guarantee you won't, if you take the low road. Whatever the results, enjoy what you have, as you have worked hard for it. Good luck.


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

Osceola said:


> You actually bring up a really good point I hadn't thought of. His daily activity (tracks going in and out), may be discouraging trespassers. This guy may be benefiting me more than I know.


Don't piss him off and end up in court. You may not like the results. I looked at 40 acres when we bought here. Behind this 40 was a80 acres of land locked state land. The owner of the land for sale was a decent guy and I had know him for quite a while. He let us rabbit hunt on his land so we had access to the state land. State came in and wanted temp access to cross his land to log off the state land. He said no. They took him to court and when it ended up he had a wide road going across his land which now belonged to the state and every tom dick and harry could drive. Nothing he could do about it. The state cut the land off and it went up for sale and he bought it. That is the only way he could close the road off. This was his side of the story that he told to us guys that knew him


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## sullyxlh (Oct 28, 2004)

micooner said:


> Yeah that's what I would do. NOT. Start antagonizing him and see how quick his middle of the day rides increases to morning and sunset rides....


Set up a range and see how his rides decrease....


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## RMH (Jan 17, 2009)

Joe Archer said:


> If he drives every day, the deer are more than used to it. Deer aren't afraid of vehicles.
> <----<<<


They should be.....


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## perchjerker (Feb 8, 2002)

I really wouldnt worry about him driving through in the middle of the day. Could be a lot worse!!!

I have a similar setup on much smaller scale. I only have 5 acres and there is a full timer behind me on 10, He is landlocked with a easement road through my property to get to his.

He is in and out of there all the time, it doesnt bother the deer at all. I just deal with it. I really didnt buy my place for hunting, more for snowmobiling and getting to Lake Mich for salmon. But I do hunt it since there are some decent spots there.

Now about him leasing it or selling it thats a different matter. Its going to be worth more to you than probably any other buyer. So if and when he sells make him a strong offer.

I have told the guy that lives behind me if he sells give me first shot, and he said the same to me lol

We get along great, he keeps an eye on my place. I would not try messing with him, or get lawyers involved. When I see posts like that I just shake my head.

Just get along with him it will be fine


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

FREEPOP said:


> I'm certain it applies to grantee but not so sure that it'd apply to the grantor (you).


The lease would apply to whoever it was assigned to until the lease ends, in this case in 34 years. The new owner is bound by the lease, unless stated otherwise.

When a person sells a house that someone is leasing, the lease does not end unless that is stated in the lease.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Petronius said:


> The lease would apply to whoever it was assigned to until the lease ends, in this case in 34 years. The new owner is bound by the lease, unless stated otherwise.
> 
> When a person sells a house that someone is leasing, the lease does not end unless that is stated in the lease.


Yep, when I stated "not so sure" I wasn't lying.
Googled it yesterday and it does look like it's very possible it transfers.

I'm done playing internet lawyer on this topic now.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

Osceola said:


> You actually bring up a really good point I hadn't thought of. His daily activity (tracks going in and out), may be discouraging trespassers. This guy may be benefiting me more than I know.


If you do talk to him about the possibility of him selling the property, ask him to talk to you before he lists it with a realtor. That will save some money and you might get a better price.


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## Rowdy Bandit (Mar 22, 2016)

Osceola said:


> You actually bring up a really good point I hadn't thought of. His daily activity (tracks going in and out), may be discouraging trespassers. This guy may be benefiting me more than I know.


If 'neighbor' threads were books and that post was 'The End' of this one, then this read beginning to 'end' just might be the most positive 'people-story' here. Lot's of 'how people tick' to see and learn throughout as well.

(No offense to later posts)


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## mbrewer (Aug 16, 2014)

Osceola said:


> I have an aggravating neighbor story. I realize there's no advice you guys can offer that will help much, but you might be able to commiserate with me or console me in some way.
> 
> Part of my property is a "front forty" with road frontage. The "back forty" was inherited by a local, retired non-hunter. His forty is landlocked, but a 99 year lease agreement was put in place 65 years ago that allows him access to his property using a two-track that runs along my property line between my 40 and another 20 I own. Essentially, he has the legal right to drive through my property any time he wants. I knew this when I bought the parcel, but decided it was still worth it and, so far, it has been. I don't regret it...yet.
> 
> ...


My honest opinion is that you, not he, is the problem. Your frustration is a symptom of an unreasonable expectation.


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## mbrewer (Aug 16, 2014)

Osceola said:


> Yes. My worst fear, lol.


Don't be so hasty, I feel like I could make a more compelling argument for worst neighbor ever.


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## Osceola (Jul 21, 2016)

mbrewer said:


> My honest opinion is that you, not he, is the problem. Your frustration is a symptom of an unreasonable expectation.


With all due respect, some of you guys are dwelling on something that isn't the point of this thread. My concern and my questions from the original post you just quoted:
_"I should just count my blessings that he is a non-hunter. Things could be much worse for me if I had to deal with slob hunters driving through my property and hunting next to me. In fact, that's my greatest fear...that he leases, gives permission or sells to the wrong kind of people.

Should I make another offer to buy, even if I have to pay above market to make sure this never happens? How aggressive should I be about acquiring this property?"_


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## mbrewer (Aug 16, 2014)

FREEPOP said:


> What I'd really do if I was in this situation is befriend the guy, by him a drink and thank him for looking after my property while I'm away.
> I too believe that his traffic and distributing scent is conditioning the deer to human activity and their scent. If you take some precautions about your scent, you should do well.


Get him drunk and **** him seems a little dated don't you think. Maybe even illegal.


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## mbrewer (Aug 16, 2014)

Osceola said:


> With all due respect, some of you guys are dwelling on something that isn't the point of this thread. My concern and my questions from the original post you just quoted:
> _"I should just count my blessings that he is a non-hunter. Things could be much worse for me if I had to deal with slob hunters driving through my property and hunting next to me. In fact, that's my greatest fear...that he leases, gives permission or sells to the wrong kind of people.
> 
> Should I make another offer to buy, even if I have to pay above market to make sure this never happens? How aggressive should I be about acquiring this property?"_


There is more than a single point in your post. My comment is related to this part..."the problem is he is retired, lives locally and takes his John Deere Gator to the property almost daily, sometimes several times a day, year round. I've politely asked him to refrain from driving through my property during hunting season, but it doesn't stop him. At first I thought he's just a non-hunter and doesn't get it. Now I think he understands, but just doesn't care. I have been gracious and generous to him, allowing loggers to access his property through mine (not the leased road because it's impassable for large vehicles) without compensation. My generosity has only been rewarded with his lack of courtesy during hunting season".

You sound like a legit dude in every way but one. Expecting him to voluntarily refrain from using the only and legal means of access he has to suit your preference is quite unreasonable.

I credit you quite a bit more than I do the Caddyshack Commandos offering up their how to build a better mouse trap fever dreams.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

mbrewer said:


> Get him drunk and **** him seems a little dated don't you think. Maybe even illegal.


He'd have to get drunk on his own, I wouldn't buy him that much.
You could also just as easily give him some homemade foods, vegetables, blow up doll etc.
A little gesture can go a long way and better the relationship, you get someone to keep an eye on your property and the more likelihood that you can get first dibs on purchasing.


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## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

Years ago my neighbor threatened he would break my dirt bike in half. I kinda laughed because I'm like thats impossible. So now when he sees me he just acts like he wants to argue so I just tell him that his lawnmower is stupid.


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## Osceola (Jul 21, 2016)

mbrewer said:


> Expecting him to voluntarily refrain from using the only and legal means of access he has to suit your preference is quite unreasonable.


Fair enough. Maybe you should start a separate thread, "Is it reasonable to be annoyed when someone drives through your property every day during hunting season for no apparent reason?"


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## mbrewer (Aug 16, 2014)

Osceola said:


> Fair enough. Maybe you should start a separate thread, "Is it reasonable to be annoyed when someone drives through your property every day during hunting season for no apparent reason?"


Not me brother. If I wanted to know why the Chicken crossed the road I'd ask the chicken not the traffic.


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## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

Osceola said:


> Fair enough. Maybe you should start a separate thread, "Is it reasonable to be annoyed when someone drives through your property every day during hunting season for no apparent reason?"


Don’t fight it O or even try to understand him. It would be easier to herd up a bunch of cats. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


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## NovemberWhitetailz (Oct 10, 2008)

Osceola said:


> With all due respect, some of you guys are dwelling on something that isn't the point of this thread. My concern and my questions from the original post you just quoted:
> _"I should just count my blessings that he is a non-hunter. Things could be much worse for me if I had to deal with slob hunters driving through my property and hunting next to me. In fact, that's my greatest fear...that he leases, gives permission or sells to the wrong kind of people.
> 
> Should I make another offer to buy, even if I have to pay above market to make sure this never happens? How aggressive should I be about acquiring this property?"_


If I had the means to do it, yes. I'd prob look at 15% above market value as a starting point!


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

Osceola said:


> Fair enough. Maybe you should start a separate thread, "Is it reasonable to be annoyed when someone drives through your property every day during hunting season for no apparent reason?"


He does it because he knows he can. I would not worry about it if it was me


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## Mike Himmel (Aug 28, 2019)

Osceola said:


> I have an aggravating neighbor story. I realize there's no advice you guys can offer that will help much, but you might be able to commiserate with me or console me in some way.
> 
> Part of my property is a "front forty" with road frontage. The "back forty" was inherited by a local, retired non-hunter. His forty is landlocked, but a 99 year lease agreement was put in place 65 years ago that allows him access to his property using a two-track that runs along my property line between my 40 and another 20 I own. Essentially, he has the legal right to drive through my property any time he wants. I knew this when I bought the parcel, but decided it was still worth it and, so far, it has been. I don't regret it...yet.
> 
> ...





Osceola said:


> I have an aggravating neighbor story. I realize there's no advice you guys can offer that will help much, but you might be able to commiserate with me or console me in some way.
> 
> Part of my property is a "front forty" with road frontage. The "back forty" was inherited by a local, retired non-hunter. His forty is landlocked, but a 99 year lease agreement was put in place 65 years ago that allows him access to his property using a two-track that runs along my property line between my 40 and another 20 I own. Essentially, he has the legal right to drive through my property any time he wants. I knew this when I bought the parcel, but decided it was still worth it and, so far, it has been. I don't regret it...yet.
> 
> ...



I would be happy he doesn't hunt. I had 75 acres of a 80 acres section. The familiy that lived on 5 acres in the front had an unemployed loser son. There was also an old farmhouse across the street that had a 40 acre parcel. The problem was the loser son and the grandkids from across the street used to hunt my property before I bought it. They all thought they had the right to poach on it when I wasn't there. Then neighbor on south side puts up a tower blind 10 yards from my property line and I busted him shooting deer on my property from it. I took nice bucks off it the 1st few years then these morons ruined it and the bucks were gone when i would come up to hunt. they knew I didn't live nearby and they could poach when I wasn't there. I finally sold it because it pissed me off so much, it was really nice. This was before they had cameras that could record to the web or your phone. I sold it to a state trooper that was local, I'm sure he fixed the problem quickly.


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## LG1 (Sep 8, 2008)

Do you live on this property O ? Or just hunt it? How well you know this guy? Maybe he’s loaded and might pay you way over market value for yours and then he can ride everywhere on his gator instead. Then you could possibly buy a bigger or better piece that would not give you the stress that this problem is giving you.


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## Osceola (Jul 21, 2016)

LG1 said:


> Do you live on this property O ? Or just hunt it? How well you know this guy? Maybe he’s loaded and might pay you way over market value for yours and then he can ride everywhere on his gator instead. Then you could possibly buy a bigger or better piece that would not give you the stress that this problem is giving you.


I do not currently live on the property, but would like to when I retire.
I have interacted with him regularly over the last few years, referring him to my logger and granting permission for the loggers to access his property.
He is not loaded, but not destitute. He is retired in his sixties, lives in a modest home, has some toys (tractor & Gator). 
I get more pleasure from working this property year-round than any of my other activities or interests. I am truly living the dream. I'm sure we all fear having lousy neighbors to some degree or another.
In retrospect, it was pointless to start this thread because my questions (How hard should I try to acquire his land? How much should I be willing to pay?) can only be answered by me. I just thought it might stimulate some interesting discussion. The thread has gotten too long and has run it's course. Thanks for all the comments, guys.


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## Sparky23 (Aug 15, 2007)

sorry I don't care what anyone says some dear... May not be spooked by vehicles and buy a side-by-side driving through a property. However, adult box don't like any type of intrusion. That's almost the same as the guys that say wind really doesn't matter I shoot plenty of beer while smoking a cigarette. You can shoot deer in any situation but any outside intrusion to a mature animal is bad.


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## Rasputin (Jan 13, 2009)

M Y only thought was, to circumvent him leasing it to someone to hunt, maybe you could lease it just so no one else uses it. Good luck

Sent from my SM-G970U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## ONEIDABOW1 (Aug 14, 2009)

Is the two track your property? If so, do with it as you see fit. Boulders, old cars, fell a couple trees across. Make it miserable.


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## BlackRhino (Feb 21, 2005)

mbrewer said:


> My honest opinion is that you, not he, is the problem. Your frustration is a symptom of an unreasonable expectation.


I don't understand that reply. 

It would be quite frustrating dealing with a douche bag neighbor like that. It is obvious this loser is doing this crap on purpose against the OP. To be honest, he needs his azz kicked. But we all know in this day and age, that would not be advisable.

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## mbrewer (Aug 16, 2014)

BlackRhino said:


> I don't understand that reply.
> 
> It would be quite frustrating dealing with a douche bag neighbor like that. It is obvious this loser is doing this crap on purpose against the OP. To be honest, he needs his azz kicked. But we all know in this day and age, that would not be advisable.
> 
> Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


What's not to understand? He bought the property knowing that someone had 34 years left on a 99 year easement to use his property as their drive way. And guys like you want to beat him up for doing so.

I'm leaving this alone just like the OP has for the same reason, nothing positive remains and I don't want to prolong the negative.


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## BlackRhino (Feb 21, 2005)

mbrewer said:


> What's not to understand? He bought the property knowing that someone had 34 years left on a 99 year easement to use his property as their drive way. And guys like you want to beat him up for doing so.
> 
> I'm leaving this alone just like the OP has for the same reason, nothing positive remains and I don't want to prolong the negative.


Look, I said it would not be advisable. Read my man, don't get so worked up. The guy is being a disreptful azz. With your stance on the subject I am wondering if you are the same type of vindictive person?

The OP did the guy a few favors in the name of being a good person and neighbor. The jerk doesn't reciprocate by respecting him. You tell me what the problem is.

It's all about respecting each other...period. 



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## BlackRhino (Feb 21, 2005)

Oh and then you call the OP the problem....sad

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## BlackRhino (Feb 21, 2005)

I have a bridge over a drainage Creek that there was no agreement mad for the neighbor access. 

The old neighbor used it all the time with no issues from me. He said he'd make sure he wasn't doing anything out there to mess up my hunting. I told him don't worry about it, but he stood fast and never used it during hunt times. Mutual respect.

The new neighbor asked me if he could use it to get access and I said sure. He said he certainly would allow his kids to ride minibikes back there during hunting season. I told him I didn't care, but he was insistant. Kids gotta have fun too. The deer don't care. Mutual respect.

Neighbors being neighbors. It seems sometimes we don't practice that enough.

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