# Sighting in my deer rifle... thoughts?



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

As a few may recall, my last shot of rifle season 2021 was ugly. I dropped the deer with a spine shot at about 50 yards. I had to go in for a kill shot. I wondered about how my scope could've gotten so out of whack, and in that question, I still have no idea. I had resigned myself to the idea that I simply took a horrible shot somehow. 

I just got back from the range. The first pic is the first target. The way up and right shot was my 1st round and the way up and center was my second shot. After that, I reset the scope to zeroes and started fresh. 

The second pic was my fine tuning. Once I got home, I layed the inches from center of target on there for comparison and took the up- close 3rd pic (also of the 2nd target). I feel ready for the season. These were all at 100 yards with my Ruger 450BM with Vortex scope shooting Hornady black box. 

I'm no crack commando or competition shooter, but this should drop some deer, right? I'm in a 4" circle. Any advice, tips, or helpful criticisms welcome. I want to do my best within my skill set (and budget for the ammo).
























Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Macs13 said:


> As a few may recall, my last shot of rifle season 2021 was ugly. I dropped the deer with a spine shot at about 50 yards. I had to go in for a kill shot. I wondered about how my scope could've gotten so out of whack, and in that question, I still have no idea. I had resigned myself to the idea that I simply took a horrible shot somehow.
> 
> I just got back from the range. The first pic is the first target. The way up and right shot was my 1st round and the way up and center was my second shot. After that, I reset the scope to zeroes and started fresh.
> 
> ...


I never trust a scope mounting job that I didn't do anymore!

Not knowing your set up personally or watching you shoot , your final group looks half decent , but could be much tighter.
Don't take that as meaning it is your ability alone.

I'd put some witness marks on the scope (removable paint marks) to see if it is moving. A scope moving rearward a tiny fraction each shot can cause your impact spot to rise. (Been there!)

For tomorrow , leave your barrel dirty / fouled.


----------



## Tron322 (Oct 29, 2011)

I'm happy with that at 100, I've only shot a few past 100 yards, most are about 50-70 yards.


----------



## M.Schmitz87 (Mar 12, 2013)

Waif said:


> For tomorrow , leave your barrel dirty / fouled.


That made a huge difference for me. Cold and fouled barrel and my Savage Axis II is dead on. As soon as my barrel heats up the group loosens up a little bit. Same with the first two shots out of a clean barrel.


----------



## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

M.Schmitz87 said:


> That made a huge difference for me. Cold and fouled barrel and my Savage Axis II is dead on. As soon as my barrel heats up the group loosens up a little bit. Same with the first two shots out of a clean barrel.


They vary!


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

Waif said:


> I never trust a scope mounting job that I didn't do anymore!
> 
> Not knowing your set up personally or watching you shoot , your final group looks half decent , but could be much tighter.
> Don't take that as meaning it is your ability alone.
> ...


Great point. I think that I must've clunked it good at some point last year between initial sight in and that final shot. 

Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

Waif said:


> Don't take that as meaning it is your ability alone.


I'm OK with it being my skill level of that's what it is. Lol. I've still only ever fired around 100 rounds from a scoped rifle in my life - somewhere thereabouts. 

My goal is dead deer. It's a little intimidating putting those pics up here because I know that many of you are great shooters that have forgotten more about shooting than I'll ever know. 


Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

M.Schmitz87 said:


> That made a huge difference for me. Cold and fouled barrel and my Savage Axis II is dead on. As soon as my barrel heats up the group loosens up a little bit. Same with the first two shots out of a clean barrel.


This is another thing that I wondered about. What would you consider to be a "hot barrel"? Is that one shot every such and such seconds? 

Today, I was shooting one shot from the chamber, put the gun down, look through the knockers, assess, put another round in, and reset. In an hour, I fired 20 rounds. 

Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Macs13 said:


> Great point. I think that I must've clunked it good at some point last year between initial sight in and that final shot.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


I've dropped one that proved just fine after.
Dented one too. It stayed right on.
But the time you don't check after.......

How a barrel is bedded matters. That contact point can change too if not secure.
Even tightening or loosening the right screw on a stock can change a rifles impact.

A stock that touches the barrel up front can change it's shape and/ or how it touches , and change where a shot hits.
One reason "free floating" barrels got attention for a while. (We were working them till we could slide a dollar bill from front of stock to near front of receivers.) But there's probably barrels that won't perform as well that way. And a well bedded synthetic stock shouldn't be as subject to changing shape as non laminated wood ones.

Great that you checked your rig out. Confidence in where it hits is paramount at shot time.
If it wanders off at next range visit , it wants more investigation.


----------



## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

You're pretty much zeroed Mac's but it would be better if you'd fired some more rounds a day after the zero. As far as the shoot dirty idea Waif mentioned, I'd agree with that. 

Aim small, miss small....buck fever will open up your zero so take a few deep breaths, let half of your last breath out before you squeeze the trigger and you'll be OK.


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

6Speed said:


> You're pretty much zeroed Mac's but it would be better if you'd fired some more rounds a day after the zero. As far as the shoot dirty idea Waif mentioned, I'd agree with that.
> 
> Aim small, miss small....buck fever will open up your zero so take a few deep breaths, let half of your last breath out before you squeeze the trigger and you'll be OK.


Thanks! That last bit about the nerves - that's the key for me, I think. Spending time with the rifle should help. I figure that if I'm zeroed decently well, it'll minimize my other weaknesses. 

Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## 6Den (10 mo ago)

Macs13 said:


> I'm OK with it being my skill level of that's what it is. Lol. I've still only ever fired around 100 rounds from a scoped rifle in my life - somewhere thereabouts.
> 
> My goal is dead deer. It's a little intimidating putting those pics up here because I know that many of you are great shooters that have forgotten more about shooting than I'll ever know.
> 
> ...


Your groups are plenty sufficient to kill deer. Contrary to popular belief, you don't need MOA groups to kill deer. It is far more important to remain calm, take your time, and know your limitations. Shooting at deer is way different than shooting at the range. Usually you feel rushed, they're moving, low visibility, brush in the way, less than ideal rests, etc, etc. Don't feel intimidated. It's between you and the animal you shoot at, no one else. Your efforts and awareness show that you care to be ethical.

Last suggestion: If ammo budget is tight and practice is lacking, get yourself an affordable scoped rimfire and get lots of trigger time with it. Good luck!


----------



## IceHog (Nov 23, 2007)

I wouldn't expect anything better using that "black ammo", from everything I've seen it leaves a lot to be desired.


----------



## Mn bum (May 1, 2018)

The best way to get better groups is to use a better/lighter trigger. I've used some pretty fancy ar platform rifles with less than awesome triggers. Look into timney single stage adjustable triggers. I have one on all my hunting rifles.


----------



## TriggerDiscipline (Sep 25, 2017)

Pretty good for factory 450 bushmaster ammo. That's not a precision cartridge. Keep you shots under 200 yards and you should be fine.


----------



## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

Macs13 said:


> Thanks! That last bit about the nerves - that's the key for me, I think. Spending time with the rifle should help. I figure that if I'm zeroed decently well, it'll minimize my other weaknesses.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Sure Mac's. I did the sniper stuff in the Army. If your right handed shooting and breath in before your shot, you'll shoot high right. If you breath out completely it will hit low left no matter your zero. It's too late for you now but next year when you're at the range, experiment with this idea and you'll see. The best time to buy cheap ammo is at the end of hunting season. Your zero will work but you gotta relax. Good luck sportsman...


----------



## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

6Den said:


> Your groups are plenty sufficient to kill deer. Contrary to popular belief, you don't need MOA groups to kill deer. It is far more important to remain calm, take your time, and know your limitations. Shooting at deer is way different than shooting at the range. Usually you feel rushed, they're moving, low visibility, brush in the way, less than ideal rests, etc, etc. Don't feel intimidated. It's between you and the animal you shoot at, no one else. Your efforts and awareness show that you care to be ethical.
> 
> Last suggestion: If ammo budget is tight and practice is lacking, get yourself an affordable scoped rimfire and get lots of trigger time with it. Good luck!


After being locked in with range practice , the biggest improvement in my shooting came from using a shooting stick. Yes it was used at the range.
(Never a barrel on a rest , but the stock near it's balance point away from any sling mount ect.).
Used a window sill last time. It was secure!


----------



## onlinebiker (Sep 19, 2019)

What rifle? What optics? What bench rest setup?


----------



## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

Make sure your mounts are all tight. Mine lossened and was on again off again until I figured it out.


----------



## onlinebiker (Sep 19, 2019)

I have to wonder where you are bracing on the rifle. I have seen break actions that would group differently depending on where you braced on the forestock. Further out from the reciever grouped higher..


----------



## snortwheeze (Jul 31, 2012)

IceHog said:


> I wouldn't expect anything better using that "black ammo", from everything I've seen it leaves a lot to be desired.


This is black (right) and (brown) Hornady left at 200 yards. You're ready to kill a deer Macs!


----------



## stevieblunder (Feb 27, 2011)

Enough of the technical jargon. Your 100 yard target looks pretty nice. You have nothing to worry about. Bag a big one.


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

onlinebiker said:


> What rifle? What optics? What bench rest setup?


That's all in the original post. 

I'm resting on the rests that they provide at the range, on the stock, right where my right will be on a freehand shot (lefty shooter). For these shots, my right hand wasn't doing anything.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Macs13 said:


> As a few may recall, my last shot of rifle season 2021 was ugly. I dropped the deer with a spine shot at about 50 yards. I had to go in for a kill shot. I wondered about how my scope could've gotten so out of whack, and in that question, I still have no idea. I had resigned myself to the idea that I simply took a horrible shot somehow.
> 
> I just got back from the range. The first pic is the first target. The way up and right shot was my 1st round and the way up and center was my second shot. After that, I reset the scope to zeroes and started fresh.
> 
> ...


MoA is overrated. That is MOD (minute of deer). Go kill one.

Just don't get too excited and pull the shot...


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

TriggerDiscipline said:


> Pretty good for factory 450 bushmaster ammo. That's not a precision cartridge. Keep you shots under 200 yards and you should be fine.


I've seen a similar sentiment before. On the other hand, this is season 3 with the same Hornady. I chose it because I was seeing good reviews at the time. 

Assuming that I'm staying with a 250 grain round, what would you (and the rest of you experienced/more picky guys) recommend for a change (in the future)? 

Caveat - I won't be hand loading... I have WAY too many hobbies already. 

Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

@Macs13 the first couple shots not being anywhere near each other concerns me...

With your being relatively new to rifles, it is hard for me to help narrow it down. Something wrong with the scope (damaged internally, loosely mounted, etc) or was it cold gun or you learning the gun/form again...

It would have been helpful, IMO, to be able to shoot again after the gun was completely cold, to see where that first round goes. It's kinda the only one that counts...


----------



## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

Never trust a factory mounted scope. Tear it down and check all of the screws as you put it back together .


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

sureshot006 said:


> @Macs13 the first couple shots not being anywhere near each other concerns me...
> 
> With your being relatively new to rifles, it is hard for me to help narrow it down. Something wrong with the scope (damaged internally, loosely mounted, etc) or was it cold gun or you learning the gun/form again...
> 
> It would have been helpful, IMO, to be able to shoot again after the gun was completely cold, to see where that first round goes. It's kinda the only one that counts...


I might have pulled it. I didn't feel any nerves, but 19 shots after that first one stayed pretty much center cut. I'm blaming it on user error. 

Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Macs13 said:


> I might have pulled it. I didn't feel any nerves, but 19 shots after that first one stayed pretty much center cut. I'm blaming it on user error.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Very likely


----------



## Chappy410 (Sep 20, 2014)

Have to agree with a couple of suggestions that have been made on here. I usually shoot 2 or 3 times a week, 52 weeks of the year. I am lucky enough to have a shooting range and insulated shed to shoot from at my place.
Like ML stated, Never trust a scope that is not personally mounted by you. Before mounting scope mounts, I clean the scope mount holes with alcohol, once that is dry I put Blue Loc-Tite on the base mount screw and torque those to the manufacturer recommended in/lbs. I also do the same with the ring screws.
Once the rifle is sighted in, I leave the barrel dirty and let it sit for 24hrs. Then I shoot one shot to see if that shoots the same as when I was sighting in the rifle. 90% of the time, that rifle is ready to hunt with. The other 10% of the time, it's back to the drawing board until it's shooting correctly.


----------



## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

Macs13 said:


> I might have pulled it. I didn't feel any nerves, but 19 shots after that first one stayed pretty much center cut. I'm blaming it on user error.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Think this Mac's...sit on your couch and dry fire your rifle aiming at the TV or something. Take a deep breath and see what happens, high right I'll bet. Your group is good for 100 yards or so but you're not gonna bust a deer at 409 yards until you control your breathing and the buck fever thing.

Just trying to help. Hope you have fun!


----------



## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

6Speed said:


> Think this Mac's...sit on your couch and dry fire your rifle aiming at the TV or something. Take a deep breath and see what happens, high right I'll bet. Your group is good for 100 yards or so but you're not gonna bust a deer at 409 yards until you control your breathing and the buck fever thing.
> 
> Just trying to help. Hope you have fun!


Ya ain’t gonna “bust “ a deer at 400 yrds with a 450 anyway!


----------



## onlinebiker (Sep 19, 2019)

100 yard. Bushmaster AR-15 .450 BM . 245.g.Hornady SP. match weight 37 g. Lil Gun.

Bench rest on Outers Varmint Rest.


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

6Speed said:


> Think this Mac's...sit on your couch and dry fire your rifle aiming at the TV or something. Take a deep breath and see what happens, high right I'll bet. Your group is good for 100 yards or so but you're not gonna bust a deer at 409 yards until you control your breathing and the buck fever thing.
> 
> Just trying to help. Hope you have fun!


Very true. 

I've had a dandy buck toy with me the last 2 nights between 80 and 120 yards. That's my benchmark. If he comes through tomorrow, I'm confident that I can knock him down. 

Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

RHRoss said:


> Ya ain’t gonna “bust “ a deer at 400 yrds with a 450 anyway!


I've got a 1944 Winchester Garand that works that far. It helps to spray ozone so they don't smell me....deer hunting is stupid anymore. I hunt meat and gave it up...


----------



## LGB (9 mo ago)

Macs13 said:


> This is another thing that I wondered about. What would you consider to be a "hot barrel"? Is that one shot every such and such seconds?
> 
> Today, I was shooting one shot from the chamber, put the gun down, look through the knockers, assess, put another round in, and reset. In an hour, I fired 20 rounds.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Hot barrels don't happen much in these cold temps. They cool fast.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

LGB said:


> Hot barrels don't happen much in these cold temps. They cool fast.


Not hot in the sense of burn you but POI can change. Probably not 6-8" though...


----------



## brewster (May 30, 2010)

6Speed said:


> I've got a 1944 Winchester Garand that works that far. It helps to spray ozone so they don't smell me....deer hunting is stupid anymore. I hunt meat and gave it up...




Do you ozone your ammo so that they don't smell it coming? jk


----------



## onlinebiker (Sep 19, 2019)

sureshot006 said:


> Not hot in the sense of burn you but POI can change. Probably not 6-8" though...


It' s weird what heat can do. I have owned rifles that would string noticably with each shot. POI might vary as much as a foot or more at 100 yard. Groups can get looser or ( more rarely) tighter as the barrel warms.

I had one Savage in .250 Savage that grouped 3 inch @ 100 yard cold - and well under 1 inch after 5 shots...

I won a few bets with that rifle - betting I could shoot better groups with the same gun and ammo - then " graciously" allowing the other guy to shoot first. 

Suckers...


----------



## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

Chappy410 said:


> Have to agree with a couple of suggestions that have been made on here. I usually shoot 2 or 3 times a week, 52 weeks of the year. I am lucky enough to have a shooting range and insulated shed to shoot from at my place.
> Like ML stated, Never trust a scope that is not personally mounted by you. Before mounting scope mounts, I clean the scope mount holes with alcohol, once that is dry I put Blue Loc-Tite on the base mount screw and torque those to the manufacturer recommended in/lbs. I also do the same with the ring screws.
> Once the rifle is sighted in, I leave the barrel dirty and let it sit for 24hrs. Then I shoot one shot to see if that shoots the same as when I was sighting in the rifle. 90% of the time, that rifle is ready to hunt with. The other 10% of the time, it's back to the drawing board until it's shooting correctly.


I have been reading up on bedding, it is pretty interesting reading about the force harmonics. There was talk about bedding the Scope mounts.
Has anybody ever done this?
I know that I will only use three piece Scope mounts if I am building a Gun.
When you have a new shooter or even me, a Lead Sled shows any flaws with the Scope or Gun. Then it comes down to the shooter. Some days trying to do long range shooting does not work for me. You have to be relaxed and steady which are not all days.

Everybody be safe tomorrow and shoot straight! 🦌😳


----------



## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

brewster said:


> Do you ozone your ammo so that they don't smell it coming? jk


Course not. The ozone thing is stupid. Can't believe people are paying for that....


----------



## LGB (9 mo ago)

Chessieman said:


> I have been reading up on bedding, it is pretty interesting reading about the force harmonics. There was talk about bedding the Scope mounts.
> Has anybody ever done this?
> I know that I will only use three piece Scope mounts if I am building a Gun.
> When you have a new shooter or even me, a Lead Sled shows any flaws with the Scope or Gun. Then it comes down to the shooter. Some days trying to do long range shooting does not work for me. You have to be relaxed and steady which are not all days.
> ...


Haven't ever had to bed scope bases. I've epoxied and pinned them to the action tho. I always lap the rings before installing the scope tho. I can actually see where bedding the base to the action could be beneficial. Contact is complete along the entire base to action. I guess match/comp shooters could see an advantage.


----------



## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

When you figure how much force is on the heads of those SHCS, there is not to much land there. I guess if you used Flatheads they would be the best.


----------



## CDN1 (May 27, 2018)

Hey Mac’s you are minute of deer all day son. 4” circle at 100yrds = Deer DRT. 
If you were coyote hunting you want MOA. Shooting and killing a deer is about staying calm, cool and collected and good shooting fundamentals with a firearm that has been sighted in and you are proficient with. Good luck


----------



## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

Macs13 said:


> As a few may recall, my last shot of rifle season 2021 was ugly. I dropped the deer with a spine shot at about 50 yards. I had to go in for a kill shot. I wondered about how my scope could've gotten so out of whack, and in that question, I still have no idea. I had resigned myself to the idea that I simply took a horrible shot somehow.
> 
> I just got back from the range. The first pic is the first target. The way up and right shot was my 1st round and the way up and center was my second shot. After that, I reset the scope to zeroes and started fresh.
> 
> ...


You re all good.


----------



## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

Squeeze the trigger and don’t jerk it. Be surprised when the round goes off. You ll be good. Can’t wait to see a dead deer


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

onlinebiker said:


> It' s weird what heat can do. I have owned rifles that would string noticably with each shot. POI might vary as much as a foot or more at 100 yard. Groups can get looser or ( more rarely) tighter as the barrel warms.
> 
> I had one Savage in .250 Savage that grouped 3 inch @ 100 yard cold - and well under 1 inch after 5 shots...
> 
> ...


A foot sounds terrible. Like maybe temp was impacting some pressure between the barrel and stock?


----------



## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

6Speed said:


> You're pretty much zeroed Mac's but it would be better if you'd fired some more rounds a day after the zero. As far as the shoot dirty idea Waif mentioned, I'd agree with that.
> 
> Aim small, miss small....buck fever will open up your zero so take a few deep breaths, let half of your last breath out before you squeeze the trigger and you'll be OK.





Macs13 said:


> That's all in the original post.
> 
> I'm resting on the rests that they provide at the range, on the stock, right where my right will be on a freehand shot (lefty shooter). For these shots, my right hand wasn't doing anything.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


I use the rest to check the rifle but always end up shooting free hand the way I do when hunting to check myself. At 100 yards just a slight breeze can change your point of impact sometimes a lot if shooting free hand


----------



## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

6Speed said:


> Course not. The ozone thing is stupid. Can't believe people are paying for that....


A fart will do the same thing as long as it is not wet


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Scout 2 said:


> A fart will do the same thing as long as it is not wet


Well yeah. There's a bit more mass behind the wet one.


----------



## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

Scout 2 said:


> I use the rest to check the rifle but always end up shooting free hand the way I do when hunting to check myself. At 100 yards just a slight breeze can change your point of impact sometimes a lot if shooting free hand


Freehand is best for sure...zero like you hunt.


----------



## LGB (9 mo ago)

sureshot006 said:


> A foot sounds terrible. Like maybe temp was impacting some pressure between the barrel and stock?


Definitely happens. Remington made the SPS 700 bolt with there latest Tupperware stock. Terrible design. Ribbed in the forearm under the barrel making contact at a couple places near very tip of the stock. Shoot the gun till the barrel heats up and shots string upward 6-8" at 100 yards. It's horrible. Bedding helps but ultimately needs a better stock.


----------



## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

6Speed said:


> Sure Mac's. I did the sniper stuff in the Army. If your right handed shooting and breath in before your shot, you'll shoot high right. If you breath out completely it will hit low left no matter your zero. It's too late for you now but next year when you're at the range, experiment with this idea and you'll see. The best time to buy cheap ammo is at the end of hunting season. Your zero will work but you gotta relax. Good luck sportsman...


I went through sniper training also, I have Winchester mdl.#70 in 300 win mag. That’ll take a flea off a ticks ass at 600 yrds.


----------



## LGB (9 mo ago)

RHRoss said:


> I went through sniper training also, I have Winchester mdl.#70 in 300 win mag. That’ll take a flea off a ticks ass at 600 yrds.


That's pretty accurate. Just gotta find the guy that can SEE a flea on a ticks ass and knock it off. Finding that guy will be harder than hitting that flea.


----------



## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

LGB said:


> That's pretty accurate. Just gotta find the guy that can SEE a flea on a ticks ass and knock it off. Finding that guy will be harder than hitting that flea.


3.5 by 25,, 2 1/2lb.. Pull, yup, very accurate, the flea/tick thing is jokey, much easier when it’s an insurgent


----------



## LGB (9 mo ago)

RHRoss said:


> 3.5 by 25


Ya I know. I have a 10-50x60 Sightron on my 338 Lapua improved. I can hit a 16" steel plate at 2000 yards. Ain't no flea and it ain't on no ticks Ass. I get it, your 300WM is a tack driver. Just playing.


----------



## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

LGB said:


> That's pretty accurate. Just gotta find the guy that can SEE a flea on a ticks ass and knock it off. Finding that guy will be harder than hitting that flea.


.


LGB said:


> Ya I know. I have a 10-50x60 Sightron on my 338 Lapua improved. I can hit a 16" steel plate at 2000 yards. Ain't no flea and it ain't on no ticks Ass. I get it, your 300WM is a tack driver. Just playing.


Awesome


----------



## LGB (9 mo ago)

RHRoss said:


> .
> 
> Awesome


It's a blast. No pun intended


----------



## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

LGB said:


> It's a blast. No pun intended


Yes sir it sure is!


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

sparky18181 said:


> Squeeze the trigger and don’t jerk it. Be surprised when the round goes off. You ll be good. Can’t wait to see a dead deer


This right here. This is something that I learned through trial. I stay fixed and relaxed (as much as possible) and slowly squeeze it. If I am surprised at the bang, I know that I did it properly. 

Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Macs13 said:


> This right here. This is something that I learned through trial. I stay fixed and relaxed (as much as possible) and slowly squeeze it. If I am surprised at the bang, I know that I did it properly.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


How is your trigger anyway? It can make a big difference.


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

Scout 2 said:


> I use the rest to check the rifle but always end up shooting free hand the way I do when hunting to check myself. At 100 yards just a slight breeze can change your point of impact sometimes a lot if shooting free hand


I'm hoping to not shoot offhand, if possible. My stand is set so that if the deer travel the expected corridor - and they have for the past week - I'll have a big crotch of the tree to rest and secure the shot. I lined up a couple of deer with the crossbow scope (too far) and just held on them, and it was flawless - no wobble. 

All of that being said, the deer aren't usually reading the same playbook as the hunter, so we'll see how it goes. I'm more concerned about the ugly weather forecast. I hope they're up and motating. 

Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

sureshot006 said:


> How is your trigger anyway? It can make a big difference.


I wouldn't have any clue. I think it's adjustable but I haven't fussed with it. It's got that double trigger thing in the middle. I'm sorry for the ignorance on this part of the gun. I'm learning as I go. 

It's not as stiff as my KelTec KSG or my revolver but it's not nearly as light as the 870 - you can breath on that thing and she fires. 

Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## LGB (9 mo ago)

Macs13 said:


> I wouldn't have any clue. I think it's adjustable but I haven't fussed with it. It's got that double trigger thing in the middle. I'm sorry for the ignorance on this part of the gun. I'm learning as I go.
> 
> It's not as stiff as my KelTec KSG or my revolver but it's not nearly as light as the 870 - you can breath on that thing and she fires.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


If it's a Ruger American bolt gun, they have pretty good triggers. 3-5lb adjustable triggers. Think there set around 4-4.5lbs from the factory. They have an Allen screw that's adjustable but you'd have to remove the barreled action from the stock to access the adjustment. Replacement triggers are offered by Timney for sure that I know of but I think you'll find the 3lb weight to be perfect for hunting. It's a single stage trigger so pretty simple system. That blade in the center of the trigger is just a safety device. Just like Savages Accu-trigger or the Glock triggers.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Macs13 said:


> I wouldn't have any clue. I think it's adjustable but I haven't fussed with it. It's got that double trigger thing in the middle. I'm sorry for the ignorance on this part of the gun. I'm learning as I go.
> 
> It's not as stiff as my KelTec KSG or my revolver but it's not nearly as light as the 870 - you can breath on that thing and she fires.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


As lgb saidthey're 3-5 lbs. I prefer 3-3.5. Not something to mess with at this point in the season though.


----------



## LGB (9 mo ago)

sureshot006 said:


> As lgb saidthey're 3-5 lbs. I prefer 3-3.5. Not something to mess with at this point in the season though.


By the looks of his target, he's good to go but I'd bet if he took it down to 3lbs, that group would shrink.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Macs, IMO the most important thing to remember and pay attention to is squeezing on the deer. It's not just a target thing. You may feel you have to shoot quick, but reality of it is if you rush to shoot, it's probably going to get away anyway. Take your time and squeeze, just like the range. It's hard to to when your blood is pumping but I think it's something that separates high recovery rate from low to avg.


----------



## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

I like 2-2.5 myself but I'm weird. Even my squirrel rifle is tricked out.

Like Sureshot said Mac's. Don't mess with that now. Wait until after deer season and buy some ammo on sale at the end of the year and then set it up. You'll be glad you did...


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

6Speed said:


> I like 2-2.5 myself but I'm weird. Even my squirrel rifle is tricked out.
> 
> Like Sureshot said Mac's. Don't mess with that now. Wait until after deer season and buy some ammo on sale at the end of the year and then set it up. You'll be glad you did...


2-2.5 is my preference for target. Not so much hunting. 

I don't care for the accutrigger style for hunting either. Cold fingers or even light gloves could lock it up and have you resetting the trigger.


----------



## onlinebiker (Sep 19, 2019)

sureshot006 said:


> A foot sounds terrible. Like maybe temp was impacting some pressure between the barrel and stock?


More likely - an out of concentric barrel..

I've seen it on old military guns - mostly. Stuff built in a hurry.

So you have a straight barrel - and a straight bore - but the hole is off to one side. As it heats up it warps due to faster heating and subsequently more length expansion on the thin side...


----------



## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

Macs13 said:


> I'm hoping to not shoot offhand, if possible. My stand is set so that if the deer travel the expected corridor - and they have for the past week - I'll have a big crotch of the tree to rest and secure the shot. I lined up a couple of deer with the crossbow scope (too far) and just held on them, and it was flawless - no wobble.
> 
> All of that being said, the deer aren't usually reading the same playbook as the hunter, so we'll see how it goes. I'm more concerned about the ugly weather forecast. I hope they're up and motating.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


You get you gun all set in that crotch and the deer will come from a different direction LOL. One thing I forgot is if you have a sling learn to use it. The pictures you posted look alright to me. With a lot of practice they will get tighter. Good Luck tomorrow and stay safe


----------



## onlinebiker (Sep 19, 2019)

I always shoot off the same rest. I have 2 - Outer' s Varmit... One stays in the blind - the other is for the range. I hunt like I practice.

If I can' t set up the shot on the rest - I pass up the shot.

I would rather not shoot than have to live with a bad shot I did take.

Sorta like an old pilot' s adage - Takeoffs are optional - landings are manditory.


----------



## bheary (Dec 29, 2010)

If not already mentioned. I always check the screws that mount the stock to barrel. Found them a touch loose when shooting. Tightened them up with an inch pound screw driver and cured the problem. 

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk


----------



## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

sureshot006 said:


> How is your trigger anyway? It can make a big difference.


Huge!


----------



## snortwheeze (Jul 31, 2012)

Follow through just as ya would a bow Macs13. Watch the bullet hit its mark. Had that happen once, shot under a buck, watched the snow under his belly on a ridge. Adjusted and clobbered em next shot  
My cousin has a really hard time knowing where he hit his deer or "if" he did.....


----------



## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

bheary said:


> If not already mentioned. I always check the screws that mount the stock to barrel. Found them a touch loose when shooting. Tightened them up with an inch pound screw driver and cured the problem.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk


You have to watch on that model Rugar American. If the screw is to tight it will lock up the action. As mentioned the sling is your best friend free hand shooting. They are pretty nice dragging a Deer out with them also. I was target shooting at a small man made valley were the Deer come through my fields at 223 yards shooting over a couple valleys. I added two Oar Locks with tubing for each side of the blind. I have tight holes at the center of each of mine my six shooting ports to move the OL to the port I would shoot out of. Sure makes it a lot more steady shooting at that yardage.


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

Thanks for all of this great advice. Without going into details (yet), I am closing on 10 acres on Friday and I'll put in a shooting lane next year so that I can practice as much as I want. 

Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## trucker3573 (Aug 29, 2010)

Just have to practice more. 4” at 50 yards is no offense pretty horrible. I’m assuming that is off a rested stable bench? Often in a hunting situation you don’t have as near of a stable rest so you may have just pulled the shot that much if benched groups are 4” at 50. Practice practice to get over that shot anticipation. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

trucker3573 said:


> Just have to practice more. 4” at 50 yards is no offense pretty horrible. I’m assuming that is off a rested stable bench? Often in a hunting situation you don’t have as near of a stable rest so you may have just pulled the shot that much if benched groups are 4” at 50. Practice practice to get over that shot anticipation.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Except his targets in the OP were 100 yards.


----------



## sherman51 (Oct 28, 2018)

6Speed said:


> Sure Mac's. I did the sniper stuff in the Army. If your right handed shooting and breath in before your shot, you'll shoot high right. If you breath out completely it will hit low left no matter your zero. It's too late for you now but next year when you're at the range, experiment with this idea and you'll see. The best time to buy cheap ammo is at the end of hunting season. Your zero will work but you gotta relax. Good luck sportsman...


 I have been shooting from the time I could hold a 22 rifle and I'm 71 now. i was a good shot from the time I started but picked up some great pointers at the rifle range in marine corps boot camp. one of the most important was to take in a breath and slowly let out half and stop. but without constant practice, it's very hard to remember to do. breathing while shooting will cause you to shoot differently each time you shoot. taking in a breath and holding it or letting out all of it and you need to sight in your rifle for which way you plan to shoot deer. we had a primary marksman instructor for 1 of our drill instructors that taught us a lot in the barracks when we had a little spare time. and breathing was his most stressed subject. when we shot at 200 300 and 500 yards I scored 228 out of a possible 250 on pre qual day and I didn't shoot as well on qualifying day with a 225. but now I don't shoot as much as I use to and I catch myself breathing when I'm getting ready to shoot. but changing anything about how you breathe or other things like how tight you hold the rifle will change where you hit from one shot to the other. but my point is breathing control is a major factor in how you shoot.

make sure your scope rings and mount are tight and if you bank the rifle on something go to the range and test-fire it just to be safe. i have fell and banged mine several times and never hurt the scope but you just never know.


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

trucker3573 said:


> Just have to practice more. 4” at 50 yards is no offense pretty horrible. I’m assuming that is off a rested stable bench? Often in a hunting situation you don’t have as near of a stable rest so you may have just pulled the shot that much if benched groups are 4” at 50. Practice practice to get over that shot anticipation.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Zero shot anticipation. Read through the thread before you start telling me how horrible I am. Look at the pics. 

I'm either 2" or less off of the bullseye on nearly every shot (while adjusting and sighting in) and I was at 100 yards. I called it a 4 inch circle because it was 2" or less up or down, left or right. That's still 2" or less from a .450BM with Hornady ammo at 100 yards on my first range session in a year. 

Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

sherman51 said:


> I have been shooting from the time I could hold a 22 rifle and I'm 71 now. i was a good shot from the time I started but picked up some great pointers at the rifle range in marine corps boot camp. one of the most important was to take in a breath and slowly let out half and stop. but without constant practice, it's very hard to remember to do. breathing while shooting will cause you to shoot differently each time you shoot. taking in a breath and holding it or letting out all of it and you need to sight in your rifle for which way you plan to shoot deer. we had a primary marksman instructor for 1 of our drill instructors that taught us a lot in the barracks when we had a little spare time. and breathing was his most stressed subject. when we shot at 200 300 and 500 yards I scored 228 out of a possible 250 on pre qual day and I didn't shoot as well on qualifying day with a 225. but now I don't shoot as much as I use to and I catch myself breathing when I'm getting ready to shoot. but changing anything about how you breathe or other things like how tight you hold the rifle will change where you hit from one shot to the other. but my point is breathing control is a major factor in how you shoot.
> 
> make sure your scope rings and mount are tight and if you bank the rifle on something go to the range and test-fire it just to be safe. i have fell and banged mine several times and never hurt the scope but you just never know.


Great advice. Thank you. 

I do concentrate on my breathing at the range (buck fever can require a bit more concentration, lol). 

I actually picture Albert Soady telling me "take a deep breath to calm your nerves, then focus, then SQUEEEEZE the trigger."

Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Macs13 said:


> Zero shot anticipation. Read through the thread before you start telling me how horrible I am. Look at the pics.
> 
> I'm either 2" or less off of the bullseye on nearly every shot (while adjusting and sighting in) and I was at 100 yards. I called it a 4 inch circle because it was 2" or less up or down, left or right. That's still 2" or less from a .450BM with Hornady ammo at 100 yards on my first range session in a year.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


2" from center in every direction is a 4 inch group. But yes it's true 2" from aim point on a deer is a dead deer. Dead deer don't care about groups.


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

sureshot006 said:


> 2" from center in every direction is a 4 inch group. But yes it's true 2" from aim point on a deer is a dead deer. Dead deer don't care about groups.


Right, and that's how I worded it originally, I thought, but I was making sure that the trucker fella and I were on the same page. Point being, and again I thought that I had made my thoughts on it clear, I wasn't looking for folks to tell me I'm a sniper now (certainly i am NOT), lol, but I was miffed at dude telling me that it was "horrible." That didn't seem right either. 

Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Macs13 said:


> Right, and that's how I worded it originally, I thought, but I was making sure that the trucker fella and I were on the same page. Point being, and again I thought that I had made my thoughts on it clear, I wasn't looking for folks to tell me I'm a sniper now (certainly i am NOT), lol, but I was miffed at dude telling me that it was "horrible." That didn't seem right either.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


I was impressed by the consistency. Although it's a 4" group, it's damn near a circle.


----------



## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

Macs13 said:


> Right, and that's how I worded it originally, I thought, but I was making sure that the trucker fella and I were on the same page. Point being, and again I thought that I had made my thoughts on it clear, I wasn't looking for folks to tell me I'm a sniper now (certainly i am NOT), lol, but I was miffed at dude telling me that it was "horrible." That didn't seem right either.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Easy Mac's. No you're not a sniper or those holes would touch! You're just fine for deer hunting in Michigan so don't sweat it. Just keep practicing and working on that breathing....oh, someone mentioned the use of a sling above, you should definitely consider that idea and look it up.


----------



## snortwheeze (Jul 31, 2012)

Also @Macs13 aim for thier shoulders  promise ya. You'll lose a little meat but they'll be dead with broken front gear and exploded lungs not too far. I don't give blood a chance with guns.


----------



## 6Den (10 mo ago)

sureshot006 said:


> I was impressed by the consistency. Although it's a 4" group, it's damn near a circle.


Agreed. A nice concentric group shows consistency. Really bad shooting or equipment failures would show very random strings or flyers. It could just be that your particular load is only so-so in your rifle. Have you tried others?


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Macs13 said:


> Right, and that's how I worded it originally, I thought, but I was making sure that the trucker fella and I were on the same page. Point being, and again I thought that I had made my thoughts on it clear, I wasn't looking for folks to tell me I'm a sniper now (certainly i am NOT), lol, but I was miffed at dude telling me that it was "horrible." That didn't seem right either.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


I do have a question. Maybe it's in your post and I missed it or am misunderstanding. 

The 2nd/3rd photo in the OP. Were you still adjusting the scope at all? Or was that once you got it dialed in?

Am I making a pattern out of nothing?


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

6Den said:


> Agreed. A nice concentric group shows consistency. Really bad shooting or equipment failures would show very random strings or flyers. It could just be that your particular load is only so-so in your rifle. Have you tried others?


I have not, and I had mentioned in one of my replies that I'd love opinions on other rounds. I have shot Hornady black and brown boxes, essentially the same round, exclusively. 

I'd love to know what the better rounds are from those who are experienced with 450BM. The caveat being that I doubt I'll go the reloading route. 

Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

sureshot006 said:


> I do have a question. Maybe it's in your post and I missed it or am misunderstanding.
> 
> The 2nd/3rd photo in the OP. Were you still adjusting the scope at all? Or was that once you got it dialed in?
> 
> ...


I was making micro adjustments at that point. 

Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## triplelunger (Dec 21, 2009)

Send it, brah!


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Macs13 said:


> I was making micro adjustments at that point.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Well shat. You're better than 4" group.

Next you get to shoot, take 5 good shots and post results.


----------



## 6Den (10 mo ago)

Macs13 said:


> I have not, and I had mentioned in one of my replies that I'd love opinions on other rounds. I have shot Hornady black and brown boxes, essentially the same round, exclusively.
> 
> I'd love to know what the better rounds are from those who are experienced with 450BM. The caveat being that I doubt I'll go the reloading route.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


I reload for my .450 and it shoots sub-MOA. I tried some factory loads that shot groups like yours. Must've been my horrible shooting 

Load suggestions can be made for on-game performance, but accuracy is particular to your rifle. No way around experimenting. Maybe try different bullet weights, if you haven't. I know it can be costly with the .450.


----------



## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

sureshot006 said:


> Well shat. You're better than 4" group.
> 
> Next you get to shoot, take 5 good shots and post results.


Whithout adjustments


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

RHRoss said:


> Whithout adjustments


He was adjusting, which probably opens up the group.


----------



## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

sureshot006 said:


> He was adjusting, which probably opens up the group.


Okay, Ya said run 5 and see, i was agreeing run 5, with no adjustment, and see


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

RHRoss said:


> Okay, Ya said run 5 and see, i was agreeing run 5, with no adjustment, and see


Ah yes. I tupid lol


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

6Den said:


> I reload for my .450 and it shoots sub-MOA. I tried some factory loads that shot groups like yours. Must've been my horrible shooting
> 
> Load suggestions can be made for on-game performance, but accuracy is particular to your rifle. No way around experimenting. Maybe try different bullet weights, if you haven't. I know it can be costly with the .450.


Wow. Your loads make that much of a difference? Maybe I could use a 47th hobby. Lol. 

I'm in the planning stages of a New Mexico hunt for 2023 or 24. Beforehand, I'm sure I'll be soliciting tons of advice on gun, caliber, optics, etc and maybe I would be wise to add in making my own loads as a consideration. 

Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

Macs13 said:


> Wow. Your loads make that much of a difference? Maybe I could use a 47th hobby. Lol.
> 
> I'm in the planning stages of a New Mexico hunt for 2023 or 24. Beforehand, I'm sure I'll be soliciting tons of advice on gun, caliber, optics, etc and maybe I would be wise to add in making my own loads as a consideration.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Elk?


----------

