# lab vs gsp



## frznFinn (Jan 25, 2004)

Ok guys and gals..we've decided to get a bird dog. I had my mind set on a lab. But I just found out that a very good friend of mine has parents that breeds gsp's. They said they would give me an awesome deal. I am now trying to learn everything about gsp's and thought some opinions would be great..so let's have it...what do you all think? My thought right now is that a puppy from someone I completely trust is an awesome good point.let's hear your thoughts..


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## WEIM-VIZ (Oct 28, 2005)

It's a no brainer, If you upland hunt primarly Grouse, Woody, Pheasant, why would you hunt with a flusher. A really bad pointer can still do the job of a flusher. If you are seriously buying a hunting dog, and hunting upland, regardless of the breed, buy a pointer, there is nothing more exciting then a dog on point. I now have a GSP and it is one of the best I have hunted behind. My two pennies, I think flushers for upland are just silly.


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## frznFinn (Jan 25, 2004)

I see your point! No pun intended! I am now getting excited since deciding to get another dog...


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## Barry (Sep 19, 2001)

If your an unpland hunter, buy the GSP. If your a waterfowler and upland hunter, buy the lab. 

Be careful about a "good deal from a friend." :16suspect


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## colehatch (Jun 18, 2003)

WEIM-VIZ said:


> It's a no brainer, If you upland hunt primarly Grouse, Woody, Pheasant, why would you hunt with a flusher. I think flushers for upland are just silly.




FrznFinn....If you have the opportunity, hunt over both before you make any decisions. That should give you a good idea of what style of hunting you like to do. I hunt an 8 year old flusher and am thinking of a new dog next spring and have the same dilemma, flusher or pointer. I've hunted over a hand full of good pointers this year but I still look forward to geting behind my hard working blue collar lab. Good luck.


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## jimmyjette14 (Aug 25, 2005)

wait a minute Bucko, there is a lot to think about this is not a one liner this is time to do some research. what kind of hunting do you like? get together with a pionter. hoe hum boring:evil: and hunt with him, then try a flusher, here we go fun . ok now dont jump either way. see what fits. then check out your training time. and the faimily setting this is more important because this is the dogs every day life. some people cant live with the gsp,s high energy tearing up things because they have nothing to do for hours, days, months. a lab may be the better choice as the can settle down better. speaking in geneal terms. keep getting the info . keep asking questions. see other dogs and talk to may people. this is a 15 year commitment. be fair the to partner you choose. make mine a Chessie! gsp energy flushing retriever. not for everyone but made for me .some day I will be old get a pointer,and just walk over and shoot the bird then send the retiever in to pick it up ha ha 
ok I know I will get flamed for that but its ok I just picked up my fire suit:lol:


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## Jumpshootin' (Jul 6, 2000)

I would go with a pointer if I mainly hunted grouse & woodcock. But if I was mainly a waterfowler & pheasant hunter(especially mi. runners), it would definitely be a Lab.
I see just as many grouse with my Lab as with a pointer, but don't get nearly as many shots. A pointer gives you an edge of knowing when & where the bird is coming up.
I grew up with, and started bird hunting behind a GSP. I also had a WPG during the 70's & 80's. Both very good on grouse & woodcock, and adequate on pheasants. But I always took more pheasants with a Lab or Beagle. 
Besides, I have always liked the Labs more for their trainability and good-natured demeanor.


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## Lucky Dog (Jul 4, 2004)

frznFinn said:


> Ok guys and gals..we've decided to get a bird dog. I had my mind set on a lab. But I just found out that a very good friend of mine has parents that breeds gsp's. They said they would give me an awesome deal. I am now trying to learn everything about gsp's and thought some opinions would be great..so let's have it...what do you all think? My thought right now is that a puppy from someone I completely trust is an awesome good point.let's hear your thoughts..


I'm thinking if you are going to base your decision on the type of DEAL you are going to get, you are going to be really dissaponted when all the cost of owning a dog start rolling in. 

If cost is an issue and you want a dog, get a rat terrier, they don't eat much.


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## Hevi (May 18, 2004)

Hunt over both, decide which style you prefer and go that way. Hunting over good flushers is fun, so is hunting over good pointing dogs. "Hyper" is a result of activity for the dog. If you don't give it exercise during the off season, you will have a hyper dog...regardless of the breed. 

And...a bad pointing dog WILL NOT do the same thing a flusher will, unless it's a boot polisher with no run.

This should get pretty interesting....


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## lking (Dec 14, 2004)

Weim-Viz, that had to be one of the most moronic posts I've read in ages. I would bet that Fritz and I and even a few others who run labs in the uplands would beg to differ with your "silly" statements. Seriously, have you looked out to the "pheasant" states recently and seen what the majority of the people are hunting behind and asked them why? I own both pointers and flushers, and personally I don't think my flushers miss a beat when it comes to putting grouse and woodcock in the bag.

In no way am I trying to say a good flusher can hang with a good pointer, but flushing breeds, especially springers and labs, can and will do a very good job in the uplands.


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

WEIM-VIZ said:


> It's a no brainer, If you upland hunt primarly Grouse, Woody, Pheasant, why would you hunt with a flusher. A really bad pointer can still do the job of a flusher. If you are seriously buying a hunting dog, and hunting upland, regardless of the breed, buy a pointer, there is nothing more exciting then a dog on point.


 
How many good flushing dogs have you hunted over? This has to be one of the most ignorant comments I have ever read on one of these boards. You say for pheasants eh? What about retrieving of down crippled game? Have you ever hunted Western Pheasants? What about spooky grouse, the days when they wont hold for a point? 

It comes down to personal preference, like Hevi said, go hunt over a number of each style then decide what is best for you. I have a great time hunting over pointing dogs, it is special to walk in on a point, just like Matt has a great time hunting over my flushing dogs and there crazed birdiness.

I think the other consideration is this: TIME how much time and access to wild birds do you have? If you dont have a lot of time and access to wild birds I would lean towards a flushing dog, you gun break them, bird break them, teach them a come, sit, stay, both verbal and whistle, and take them hunting. You can add polish from there.

A pointing dog on grouse will take in some cases a lot more time.....Only you can decide 


There is no right answer, the only wrong answer is Weim-Viz.


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## frznFinn (Jan 25, 2004)

Thanks for all the replies...i think...It is a personal decision one NOT based on an awesome deal. I grew up with springers and loved them,but am ready for a switch. After tons of researching and looking for a good breeder we still ended up with a springer full of problems so I am most definitely considering the pup from a trusted source. I grew up with them and when they retired lost touch. I just wanted some insight from owners of both to help me in my decision. Sometimes no matter what new thread I post I walk away with the thought of why did I post that in the first place. but thanbks for the replies.


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

frznFinn said:


> Thanks for all the replies...i think...It is a personal decision one NOT based on an awesome deal. I grew up with springers and loved them,but am ready for a switch. After tons of researching and looking for a good breeder we still ended up with a springer full of problems so I am most definitely considering the pup from a trusted source. I grew up with them and when they retired lost touch. I just wanted some insight from owners of both to help me in my decision. Sometimes no matter what new thread I post I walk away with the thought of why did I post that in the first place. but thanbks for the replies.


 
frznFinn,

Springers, like Labs or GSP's from the wrong lines have some temperment issues. I suggest you take your time and find the right line of dogs for you, ask to see the dogs work, call pro trainers who have worked with that line of dogs (they are much more honest I have found, then a reference who you know "my dog is best" no matter what).

Lots of guys here can turn you onto certain lines of dogs depending on what your looking for in terms of temperment, run, ext.....I own upland labs, they are lighter of bone, smaller dogs, they are built different with a different temperment than say Jumpshootin's lab, mine are not any better than his though, just a different purpose. 

Hevi has a great temperment GSP, he knows the line really well and would help you out with that area, if you got the pedigree's of your friends GSP's you could post some names and guys on here could help you with characteristics of the lines.

Good Luck, take your time and if you want to see different dogs work. Let us know, we can help you out.

Fritz


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## Rooster_Smasher (Oct 18, 2003)

Depending on the breeding the GSP might be a great deal, but then again it might not. If it is a repete breeding and you have seen the other pups from the first litter and they turned out to be solid hunters as well as good family companions, then GREAT. Seeing the Stud and Dam work birds is also a plus. 

The Upland Flusher is a fun dog to shoot birds over, mainly Pheasants. You mentioned you had your mind set on a lab. A well bred Lab is an OUTSTANDING animal to own. Doing your homework and getting a Lab bred for the Uplands will take a little time on your part. Putting two fat basic Labs together is not what I consider well bred and that happen all the time. 

Either way, the bottom line will depend on how much time you are willing to put into the dog as far as the hunting goes. There is not quite as much work to do with the Lab, main thing being to keep him close and teach him/her how to quarter or shall I say bring out the dogs natural instincts to quarter (well bred) and then train it to stop on command when it is working a hard running Rooster and or teach it to charge the bird up with a HARD charging flush and get that bird up in the air RIGHT NOW. The shorthair on the other hand will take a little more work. If the shorthair is a big running dog you will need to teach him to work at a distance that you prefer. I always let a young shorthair run as big as they want when they are a young pup, it is easier to reel them in later than it is to get them to go out. 

They are both GREAT animals. Bottom line is depends on the breeding and how much time ya wanna put into it. They are like a 5 gallon bucket, you can only pour out what ya put in, just dont kick the bucket.

99 times out of a 100 people go and see a litter and hold the pups they buy a pup. Tell yourself to not get a pup from the very first litter ya see. Look at several litters.

Good luck in your search.

Rooster

http://wolfescreekshorthairs.homestead.com/Index.html


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

Great Advice Rooster, only thing to add is Labs will hold their own with Grouse also, it takes them a little longer to learn how to work them vs. pheasants, but they do learn and do just fine.


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## Hevi (May 18, 2004)

WEIM-VIZ said:


> A really bad pointer can still do the job of a flusher.


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## Rooster_Smasher (Oct 18, 2003)

Stealheadfred,

Your so very right. Last year I ran into a couple guys that had a two man limit of Grouse and they were hunting with a Lab and a Golden.


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## PA BUCK 2 (Oct 17, 2006)

Some great posts... I personally hunt behind a lab- love it and have shot and had him retrieve just everything. Woodcock, grouse, pheasant, doves, ducks and geese. I have also hunted over pointers.... different but fun.

Good luck. I would say this- the cost of a pup is the last thing that should sway your decision. You will have the dog for a long time and the whole scheme of this the initial cost is very low...


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## NEMichsportsman (Jul 3, 2001)

Hevi said:


> This should get pretty interesting....



So far it hasn't... if it does get "interesting" it wont stay open for long.

The only reason that a "breed debate" was allowed to start in the first place is because Frzn is not a regular poster in the Upland Forum.

We've been down that road enough times.


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## lowavenger96 (Dec 8, 2004)

The easy way to settle this is to buy one of each both from good blood lines ......:lol:

But in all reality it is personal preference a flusher and a pointer will find birds and both are great dogs . As to what SHF said about GSP's having behavior issues only one mine have are getting out of the field or off the couch ..GSP's are great family dogs and if trained right excellent hunters .


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## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

Merganzer is my hero.


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## HarleyP (Mar 4, 2004)

make that 2

:lol:


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## PahtridgeHunter (Sep 1, 2004)

So which breed is best?:evilsmile


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## frznFinn (Jan 25, 2004)

Thanks to all who have given me their insights. Every breed has their good points. I'm not sure yet which I'll go with, but you all have helped. I didn't mean to make it a breed vs. breed. I should have just asked about gsp's. But I know now what to base my decision on. But what a fun decision to have to make! Thanks again and let's close this ok? I'll send pics when I get the puppy!


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## midwestfisherman (Apr 19, 2001)

PahtridgeHunter said:


> So which breed is best?:evilsmile


OK.....OK......Let me top it off then! 

*SETTERS RULE!!* :evilsmile :lol:


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

midwestfisherman said:


> OK.....OK......Let me top it off then!
> 
> *SETTERS RULE!!* :evilsmile :lol:


 
This is very simple.

If you want to kill birds - get a lab.:evilsmile 

If you want to make excuses as to why you dont kill birds - get a setter.:lol:


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## FieldWalker (Oct 21, 2003)

I'd recommend a Silver Lab... they are the best.


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## NEMichsportsman (Jul 3, 2001)

frznFinn said:


> Thanks to all who have given me their insights. Every breed has their good points. I'm not sure yet which I'll go with, but you all have helped. I didn't mean to make it a breed vs. breed. I should have just asked about gsp's. But I know now what to base my decision on. But what a fun decision to have to make! Thanks again and let's close this ok? I'll send pics when I get the puppy!



You are right it is a fun decision to make! Good luck!

Make sure you post the puppy pics....everybody here loves puppies-even Fred!!!


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