# Wheeler Archery



## Swamp Monster

MIBIGHNTR, it's pretty tough to make an educated decision when everyone has their own idea on whats is right and wrong. Mathews and Hoyt are the two big dogs in the archery world and neither wants the other to have an edge so they both claim that the others product is inferior. Check out Mathews latest catalogue, they claim to have tried the cam.5 back in 93' and decided it was not as good as the single cam....can you believe that or were they caught with their pants down and are trying to save face? I don't know. In reality, both are quality products but one may feel more 'right" for the individual. 
As far as the tuning goes, cams are only one small part of the whole package. The guy you talked to said the Hoyt went out of tune, but what did he mean? Cams out of time? Nocking point changed due to the heat and string stretch? Arrow rest come out of adjustment? A single cam eliminates the timing between to cams, but they are more prone to string stretch (not all but most) which will cause crazy things to happen to your nocking point when you release etc. I recently read an article where a tester deliberatly set the Hoyt cam.5 on different settings from each other to see if this would effect the timing of each cam and he could notmake it happen, the bow shot fine. Now do we believe this or must we see for ourselves? As far as the limb pockets are concerned, imo, there is not a better design than the Hoyts machined pockets...the fit and finish is exceptional. The V-lock from Mathews is not really new, new materials and tighter tolerances, yes but not new. My old Proline and a few others had similiar designs long ago. They did not include pivoting limb pockets, but the limbs were fully contained none the less. I think the pivoting limb pockets are a necessity with the parallel limb design. I am not an engineer either so I may be missing the boat on some of the finer points and reasonings for this V-lock thing. But I refuse to believe that they are better than anything else just because the company claims them to be. I sometimes think, how much better can these bows get anyway? I recently shot a Mathews Icon and I couldn't even feel the shot in my bow arm..how much smoother can it get? 
Confused still? If your not I am!


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## MIBIGHNTR

Swamp - 

The guy at the Mathews shop said that the string stretches less on the Mathews because it has a single string vs. the Hoyt which has two??? I guess I figure that stretch is stretch, whether you have one string or ten, stretch will always be a factor. Now, how big of a factor will it be??? Who knows? Probably a big factor for the guys who leaves his bow in the truck of his car/truck in the middle of July! After you shoot a new bow, or string, several hundred times, I would think that most of the stretch would have occured? Now if your nock is true at that point, and your cams in time, would anything cause the whole thing to go to hell? Other than mis-use and abuse?

I'm just trying to look at this whole debate with an open mind......It would be nice if the shops did the same! Some individuals are just to brand-loyal to see beyond the end of their nose.

MIBIGHNTR


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## Swamp Monster

A single longer string will have a much higher chance of stretching than two shorter strings, all things being equal. Atleast that is what I have been told by a number of proshops pushing different brands of bows. Mathews and Hoyt both spec premium stings, though the Mathews may have the better of the two. String material today is much better than it was and the stretch should be minimal at best anyway. And you can buy pre stretched strings already when it comes time to replace the factory string. The last factory string I used stretched nearly two inches over the course of three years...most of the stretching occured during the summer when shooting in hot weather. My bow went from 29" draw to 30.5" and 67# to 74# in a matter of three weeks. The strings were due to be replaced and I put premium strings (can't remember the brand but it was about $100 worth) and never had another problem. Stretch is an issue with any bow at some point. I like to go to shops that carry each brand I'm interested in and find out what the folks there think. At one shop that carries Mathews/Hoyt/Bowtech, the three main bows I'm interested in, the owner likes all three and gives pro's and cons of each. He also says most people shoot the top two that their interested in on a number of occasions before they can make a decision. He says that the Hoyts and Mathews are about even as far as sales go with Bowtech being the next most popular. Yet in the target league he shoots a Martin, but doesn't sell nearly as many. So who knows? 
Shoot em' all and then shoot em' again. And keep shootin' till ya find the one you like the most....or just buy two or three different models and cover all the bases!!
I know there are others here that can give you some excellent input on these matters.


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## MIBIGHNTR

I ran out at lunch and shot the Havotec and Razortec. They are both very nice and I had trouble telling the difference between the two. The Havoctec has a shorter a/a but higher brace height, the Razortec just the opposite. Not much time to shoot the Legacy and they don't have an LX yet, so I will have to wait and see. I would also like to include the Ultratech, but they were sold out at the moment.

Thanks Swamp!

MIBIGHNTR


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## Banditto

-- "Is the timing issue really a concern? How often does a bow go "out-of-tune"?"

This is a tough one to call. I will side with doom-and-gloom here, and also what 90% of bow manufacturer suggest. To keep your bow in perfect working condition Mathews and Hoyt to name a few feel you should change your string at least every other year. Things that really affect how fast your string stretches are shock, tensile load, and speed of the bow, etc.

It is funny, but I have seen so many bows out of tune that the owner adjusts (without even knowing) and learns to shoot the bow with the problem. More power to them if they can make it work... And if your bow doesn't have problems like that, and your string is 10 years old. GREAT! good for you and be thankful it works that well for you.

When your string stretches your bow will be very noticable out of tune with a dual cam bow--poor flight patterns, poor impact. For that matter it will even be slightly out of tune with a single cam bow but without the noticable effects. 

In my opinon there are only a few bow manufacturer that uses a "premium" string. Mathews and Hoyt stock strings are disposable. Granted Mathews does make a high quality string called Tiger, they just don't ship it on your bow. They want you to call in and complain about your string where they suggest you upgrade to the premium string.


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## Swamp Monster

Banditto, I agree about the Mathews and Hoyt Strings. Hoyt improved theirs this year but and it's still not as good as some of the aftermarket sets. I thought the Mathews made string was the Zebra Twist? Or is Tiger their new design? Bowtech strings their bow with Winners Choice, it doesn't get much better than that. Champion also makes their own strings that are supposedly as good as anything on the market. I think for the price the high end bows cost, the string should be top quality right from the factory.


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## Grouse Hunter

I know this is an old thread, but has anyone heard anything from this company recently? Where can I see one of these bows in SOuthern MI?


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## Trushot_Archer

Where's Deputy?? He hinted that he had an insiders scoop on the 2004 lineup but NEVER DELIVERED 

The websites been down a while now.

Here's the number to the shop 1-989-644-5825 

And here's alink to a 2003 model on ebay.

I'd say call the number and ask for Mark. He doesn't know me from Adam and when I called we talked for a while about his stuff and what he was doing...very nice guy, knowledgable and pleasant to deal with.


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## deputy

havent heard much yet he hasnt got back to me if it became a reallity or not yet!


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## QuakrTrakr

My good buddy has one he bought 5 years ago. He loves it. Said he'll never use another. He's been bowhunting over 20 years. They had a booth at the Safari Club Meeting at the casino in Mt. Pleasant last weekend. He had his latest bows there.


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## Elk Guide

Ok i promised i would find out some information for you guys and so i went to the safari club hunting show friday afternoon.....talked to Mark he said he didnt have many 2004 bows because of the demand for them but he is geting me information on them and i will post about them as soon as i get it....he is only building a twin cam bow for 2004 i got to look at some of his prototypes for this year they look real nice.......I did however think the $600 price tag was a little stiff ....i will post more info as soon as i get it .....take care


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## Trushot_Archer

Hey Guide, did you notice the limb cups? Any changes in that dept.? 

IMO the dual cam bows are already on the comeback and we haven't hit enar the peak yet... he may be ahead of the game a little with only doing the duallys. Hopefully he can keep up with the demand.


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## Elk Guide

Trushot_archer........he said something about the cups being deeper does that make sense.....also that his new bows were a true center shot .......they look really nice and sound good but until i get the liteture i am not sure exactly what he was talking about......$600 plus sounds a little steap but i havent shot one yet either but i will,,,,also he only has two people working for him so how many they can build and how fast i just dont know that either.......i have know him and his brother along time but not sure where he got his knowledge of bows....when he lets me know i will go shoot one and report back but i dont know how long that will be from now....have a great day


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## deputy

kelly, I need reservations for two tomorrow night ! maybe 8pm ill call you later


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## Trushot_Archer

???? If you stop in tonight bring your bow...it's league night and you can come along. Goofy Alpine and all 

EG...he's had a patant on a centline idler wheel for a while...great for the single, but if he's rolling with the dually's like that now that will be interesting. 

The limb cups are supposed to be very low tolerance and have no play other than the actual pivot. Provides a more accurate bow longer. 

The only issue I ever had with them was the recoil and noise. Damn they were loud and really vibrated compared to most I've shot, but they were all bare (and I mean BARE) bows where many come stock with saver and leeches etc.

I'd still like to see the new stuff.


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## Elk Guide

trushot_archer........I still dont have the info he is rather slow ....he did say somthing about the bows being quiet not sure if they are or not i need to get over there to shoot one....i am about 16 miles from him so i will see if i can catch him there....i have stopped several times at his shop and no one has been there....i guess he does all the sales rep stuff his self.....i have been trying to convince him to hire me as his sales rep and he can have more time to work on his bows but no luck....as soon as i get the info i will post again .....i'm sorry its taking so long....


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## deputy

if you shoot that wheeler anything like you cook forget it dinner was good the other night and of course your staff was top notch, man do i love that wine list! iam going broke! lol maybe next week! menu idea for yah! tatter tots and sloppy joes


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## Trushot_Archer

Hey Steve,
Fortunately for Michigan's deer herd...I'm a better cook than hunter 

No time pressure Elk Guide...just curious mostly. I'd like to see the guy succeed with his venture there, but I can imagine how tough it must be trying to do everything himself.


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## twodogsphil

FYI. Anyone on this thread who's expressed an interest in Wheeler bows, Marks got a vendor booth at the Lansing Deer Spectacular. Visit his booth, talk with him, shoot his bows. The show runs through Sunday the 28th.


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## thornapple

He is also giving some very good deals at the show. I shot one on friday and although its regularly priced at 600 he said its going for 400 at the show. The only problem was the hand shock seemed really bad. Although they looked like a very well built bow it wasnt for me. Soon Gander Mountain will be carrying some of his models.


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