# Deer Camp Conflict



## ferrisone28 (Jan 18, 2016)

Hello All. Looking for some input on a deer camp conflict. Family A (joint landowners) and family B hunt rogether on Family A’s property. Family B has a person who came in with 1 landowner permission and didn’t communicate to the others. A 40yd x 120yd area for a food plot was cleared out of dense woods with a mini excavator. In the process, they also downed 4 large mature pine trees and made a path to this area. How would you proceed with this situation as it’s already getting ugly. Thoughts? Thanks all in advance!


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

What?

IF family A owns the property and make permissions and rules in unison...
But family member of family A authorized an additional guest of family B , then it's on that member of family A.

Who the tree removal and ground clearing and plot being put in is on....Is either member of family A that granted the permission , or the guest.
But that needs either more detail by poster , or research.
How much sway the individual member giving the guest permission factors too.
Dependent of course on how the family allows permissions.

IF family A agrees in unanimous fashion , all future guest permissions should be voted on by all members of family A.
Property use can be treated similarly. From no cutting live timber ,or even cutting live limbs ,or mowing ect...
Or , it will continue as it has. Neither is wrong if family A accepts either case.


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## fishnpbr (Dec 2, 2007)

I'm confused but that's easily done in my case. I've been happy with hunting the Huron National Forest for the last 30 years. Good luck sorting this cluster f**k out.


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## Lumberman (Sep 27, 2010)

Huh? Sounds like the guest of Family B who hunts on Family A's property did you all a favor and spent a bunch of time and energy putting in a foodplot with one land owner's (assume a member of family A) permission. 

Where's the conflict?


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## usedtobeayooper (Feb 13, 2008)

Waif said:


> IF family A owns the property and make permissions and rules in unison...
> But family member of family A authorized an additional guest of family B , then it's on that member of family A.


Exactly. 

If I'm understanding this little riddle correctly, then if one of the owners from Family A authorized someone from Family B, or even a complete stranger, to do anything, than it's on THAT member of Family A to square it up with the rest of Family A. The person that was given the permission from an owner from Family A shouldn't have ever felt the need to also get the permission of EVERY other member of Family A unless they were specifically told beforehand that was the case.

If someone tells me I can hunt somewhere, I don't ever think to myself, "self, now I need to go ask his brother, his uncle, his sister, and his mother... then I'll be ok."


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## ferrisone28 (Jan 18, 2016)

Lumberman said:


> Huh? Sounds like the guest of Family B who hunts on Family A's property did you all a favor and spent a bunch of time and energy putting in a foodplot with one land owner's (assume a member of family A) permission.
> 
> Where's the conflict?


I suppose the conflict is who is going to hunt it. Lol IMO Family A needs to get their stuff in order to ensure this doesn’t happen again. One member of Family A wants this person out of the picture and Family B off the land. It should make for an interesting hunting season.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

ferrisone28 said:


> I suppose the conflict is who is going to hunt it. Lol IMO Family A needs to get their stuff in order to ensure this doesn’t happen again. One member of Family A wants this person out of the picture and Family B off the land. It should make for an interesting hunting season.


Joint landowners needs defined.
So does how decisions are made.
If half the folks with equal monetary interests don't hunt , or don't want to be involved in decision making , that matters.
Plus family dynamics , rivalries , pecking order, and more.


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## Lumberman (Sep 27, 2010)

ferrisone28 said:


> I suppose the conflict is who is going to hunt it. Lol IMO Family A needs to get their stuff in order to ensure this doesn’t happen again. One member of Family A wants this person out of the picture and Family B off the land. It should make for an interesting hunting season.


Now that's a conflict. The member of family A that gives the random guy permission and the other member of family A that doesn't want Family B or the random guy around is where the problem lies. Sounds like family A has to get things together.


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## ferrisone28 (Jan 18, 2016)

Waif said:


> Joint landowners needs defined.
> So does how decisions are made.
> If half the folks with equal monetary interests don't hunt , or don't want to be involved in decision making , that matters.
> Plus family dynamics , rivalries , pecking order, and more.


Equal share, no monetary interest. No sellouts, buyouts, etc. One family member was named executor of the estate and chose this path with little to no guidelines, just good faith that other family members would use it, no other families. This really turns into a Family A dispute - which will be a fun time. I’m a member of Family A and have said for YEARS there needs to be rules, but I’m second generation, so my voice doesn’t matter. Thanks for your input!


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## Lumberman (Sep 27, 2010)

ferrisone28 said:


> Equal share, no monetary interest. No sellouts, buyouts, etc. One family member was named executor of the estate and chose this path with little to no guidelines, just good faith that other family members would use it, no other families. This really turns into a Family A dispute - which will be a fun time. I’m a member of Family A and have said for YEARS there needs to be rules, but I’m second generation, so my voice doesn’t matter. Thanks for your input!


Hunting property politics can be as tough as the countries that's for sure...


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

ferrisone28 said:


> Equal share, no monetary interest. No sellouts, buyouts, etc. One family member was named executor of the estate and chose this path with little to no guidelines, just good faith that other family members would use it, no other families. This really turns into a Family A dispute - which will be a fun time. I’m a member of Family A and have said for YEARS there needs to be rules, but I’m second generation, so my voice doesn’t matter. Thanks for your input!


Well , hunt away from the new plot for now I guess...

I have seen a smooth family hunting arrangement with one member calling the shots .

And have seen a multi generational farm get lost completely over attitudes by a third generation that had been festering a long time when the previous senior shot caller was gone.
Actually , bad attitudes (it's ours ,no one else should be here or offer input regardless of past involvement ect.) that simmered during a previous generation.

Uniformity is strength. So too can be non members of a family.


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## Bob S (Mar 8, 2000)

These situations generally work best when one person is the decision maker.


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## junkman (Jan 14, 2010)

ferrisone28 said:


> One family member was named executor of the estate.


So I would guess that he is the one that would make any and all decisions.


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## Scadsobees (Sep 21, 2006)

What's done is done.

Family A needs to take a few votes:
1) who they want hunting the land
2) Who they want hunting the new parcel (start with nobody)

If somebody throws a hissy, how about letting that person hunt that this year, then draw straws or establish a rotation for subsequent years?

There's got to be 1) more communication before anything is decided and 2) voting with the knowledge it may not go your way.


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

Best option is a winner take all sword duel between representatives of A&B. 

Fall back option is for the disgruntled leader of family A to plow up the food plot. Plow furrows are a time tested means of communication. 

Either way, sounds like a FUN place to hunt!


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## mac66 (Apr 4, 2017)

I owned 40 acres with 2 brothers and my dad. We all hunted and got along fine but could never agree on what needed to be done to improve the property. One brother and my dad didn't want to spend any money or do any improvements. One brother was for improvements but but didn't want to spend any time doing them. I eventually bought them all out. It's been 4 years and I've done a lot to improve the hunting. They are all still welcome to hunt there. We get along much better since there isn't any conflict about when, who, where or what needs to be done. I just do it.


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

mac66 said:


> I owned 40 acres with 2 brothers and my dad. We all hunted and got along fine but could never agree on what needed to be done to improve the property. One brother and my dad didn't want to spend any money or do any improvements. One brother was for improvements but but didn't want to spend any time doing them. I eventually bought them all out. It's been 4 years and I've done a lot to improve the hunting. They are all still welcome to hunt there. We get along much better since there isn't any conflict about when, who, where or what needs to be done. I just do it.


You did things exactly right. 

Having one person who makes all final decisions, and for that person to be the man in the mirror, is always a winning strategy.


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

Rule # one never go in partnerships with family or friends .Seen it go south to many times .


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Unless your name is on the deed, life is too short to worry about what has been done or not done. You have options, live with what’s been done or hunt elsewhere.


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## wpmisport (Feb 9, 2010)

Not enough information to make an informed decision but I will take a stab at it. Member of family A that gave permission to family member B believes they are in control. Family member B that cut down some trees believes they have the power to do so.
Get the rest of the both families together and see if they want to keep these two people off the property this hunting season. These two probably believe they are in charge and this may not happen without a fight.
Wear plenty of hunter orange this year if you go hunting.


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## micooner (Dec 20, 2003)

Thirty pointer said:


> Rule # one never go in partnerships with family or friends .Seen it go south to many times .


The times that these go south usually outnumber the north's. Lol. Jmho


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## ferrisone28 (Jan 18, 2016)

Thirty pointer said:


> Rule # one never go in partnerships with family or friends .Seen it go south to many times .


The lawyer stated he has never seen an arrangement made in this manner and said I hope you never have family issues or this will get ugly. Well, 24yrs later, we’re there!


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## Tilden Hunter (Jun 14, 2018)

ferrisone28 said:


> Hello All. Looking for some input on a deer camp conflict. Family A (joint landowners) and family B hunt rogether on Family A’s property. Family B has a person who came in with 1 landowner permission and didn’t communicate to the others. A 40yd x 120yd area for a food plot was cleared out of dense woods with a mini excavator. In the process, they also downed 4 large mature pine trees and made a path to this area. How would you proceed with this situation as it’s already getting ugly. Thoughts? Thanks all in advance!


There are so many ways this went wrong that it's not particularly useful to focus in on one, but my first thought was that when I'm invited to hunt somewhere I show up with a rifle, not a mini excavator and chainsaw.


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## throughtheice88 (Feb 15, 2015)

Boy, I've seen situations like this where one of multiple landowners invites a friend to hunt and the other owners get bent out of shape. Now, to invite that person then proceed to permanently decimate an elaborate piece of the property without the others permission? Assuming I'm understanding the situation correctly, I'd say get out the popcorn. Yikes.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Plot could be for the benefit of the family member who allowed the guest for all we know.


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## U of M Fan (May 8, 2005)

This camp doesn’t happen to be near Tawas does it?


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

That’s why you own the camp yourself I make the rules and who is invited. Now we discuss the operations of camp but other than that it’s my decision.


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## tdduckman (Jan 17, 2001)

wow - when I bought my property I thought about offering my hunting buddies to buy in, 12 years later SOOOOOO glad it is all mine they still hunt there but I make all of the decisions and they provide some labor. no arguments ever


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## ArrowFlinger (Sep 18, 2000)

U of M Fan said:


> This camp doesn’t happen to be near Tawas does it?


Did you recently create a food plot Craig?


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## U of M Fan (May 8, 2005)

ArrowFlinger said:


> Did you recently create a food plot Craig?


LMAO!!! I would like a little heads up if I need to remove my stand.

My buddy hunted a camp near 55 and 65 that turned into a cluster.


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## HUBBHUNTER (Aug 8, 2007)

We Had an issue when I was quite young and just getting into hunting where the grown son of one of the owners brought a friend. Good guy to have beers with but never followed any rules. We have APR's and opening morning of his first time hunting he shot 2 bucks under the APR. The following season he was allowed during bow season only and shot another buck under the APR but pretty close so he was given a pass. Then the next season he shot a button buck. He no longer hunts there. It was decided family only at that point.

Point of this is at the time it was a hot and heated issue among family but there are ways to work it out without tearing things a part and now looking back after many years it wasn't that big of deal but the situation needs to be handled now and someone people will be unhappy. Thats life.


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## ArrowFlinger (Sep 18, 2000)

HUBBHUNTER said:


> We Had an issue when I was quite young and just getting into hunting where the grown son of one of the owners brought a friend. Good guy to have beers with but never followed any rules. We have APR's and opening morning of his first time hunting he shot 2 bucks under the APR. The following season he was allowed during bow season only and shot another buck under the APR but pretty close so he was given a pass. Then the next season he shot a button buck. He no longer hunts there. It was decided family only at that point.
> 
> Point of this is at the time it was a hot and heated issue among family but there are ways to work it out without tearing things a part and now looking back after many years it wasn't that big of deal but the situation needs to be handled now and someone people will be unhappy. Thats life.


If he was clearly told the APR's, then he clearly should have been shown the outside of the gate, never to see the inside again. #1 rule when a guest, follow the rules.


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## Rasputin (Jan 13, 2009)

I liked Farmlegends term “guests with equity”. Boy isn’t that the truth. Invite somebody one time, and they think they are in forever. I had the unfortunate job of telling someone this spring that I would no longer have a spot for him. Shouldn’t have to do that if people didn’t just assume. And yes, I agree with everyone that says it is best to have one owner, and I am the sole owner. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## TriggerDiscipline (Sep 25, 2017)

ferrisone28 said:


> Equal share, no monetary interest. No sellouts, buyouts, etc. One family member was named executor of the estate and chose this path with little to no guidelines, just good faith that other family members would use it, no other families. This really turns into a Family A dispute - which will be a fun time. I’m a member of Family A and have said for YEARS there needs to be rules, but I’m second generation, so my voice doesn’t matter. Thanks for your input!


Oy, so not only is this guy letting people run roughshod on the property, but he's breaching his fiduciary duty to the heirs of the estate. That timber had value, and so does Family A's hunting experience. 

The executor has a duty to kick Family B off the property. If he refuses to do the right thing, your options are to compel him to do it in court, or petition the court for a sale or partitioning of the property.

This is why good planning ahead of time is so important. Put your property in a trust or LLC with rules spelt out for its use, how to sell the property or buy eachother out, how decisions are made, who makes those decisions, and who pays for everything. I've seen too many of these family situations get ugly.


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## HUBBHUNTER (Aug 8, 2007)

ArrowFlinger said:


> If he was clearly told the APR's, then he clearly should have been shown the outside of the gate, never to see the inside again. #1 rule when a guest, follow the rules.


You're not wrong. 
Back then it was one of the properties owners sons who invited the guy. The other property owners don't like to cause conflict but by avoiding conflict it caused conflict. That property owner then sold her share to family and her son now hunts as a guest. That's another issue....


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## buggs (Jan 21, 2011)

micooner said:


> The times that these go south usually outnumber the north's. Lol. Jmho


" Hunting Partner*ships* are *ships *that were never meant to sail."


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## wmmichael20 (Nov 1, 2012)

About 2 years ago I bought property from the wife's family that I and a few other family members were allowed to hunt on, I then proceeded to build my home on it and had to let the others they were no longer to be hunting on it, due to their lack of responsible behavior I and my wife didn't want them using firearms on our property for obvious reasons, and boy you would think I jabbed them in the eye with a hot poker, it's been two years now and they are still crying to anyone that will listen. Hell I even told them a season before I started building and gave them almost a year to get their stands out...... Family matters like it turn ugly especially when you give them an inch and they think they can take a mile.


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## Sasquatch Lives (May 23, 2011)

You never know how big of an ahole people can be until your hunt with them.


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## bucko12pt (Dec 9, 2004)

buggs said:


> " Hunting Partner*ships* are *ships *that were never meant to sail."



It doesn’t have to be. Our club with multiple members has been in existence for 30 years without a serious issue during that time. Difference is, we have a very distinct Operating Agreement that covers virtually any issue that can come up. How you buy in and out, who can hunt and when, are all covered in rules we put in place BEFORE we started the club.

We’ve survived departures, deaths, bankruptcies, marriages, divorces and have not had an issue. We’ve provided a way to make it affordable for younger people to buy into the club and have indeed had several new young members in their 20’s and 30’s join in the past few years. We have a waiting list and have never sold a share to anyone outside our group and I’m sure never will.

The time to make the rules is before you create a group, not when the first conflict occurs.


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## 22 Chuck (Feb 2, 2006)

I wonder if the family would still be hunting there if a "stranger" had bought the property?? Would you be hunting there if they had bought it??


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