# first time out today have question, fly lands short of tippet end.



## jjc155 (Oct 16, 2005)

I was able to get out on the Huron in Ypsi today for the first time with a fly rod. Fished for about 2 hours and actually caught 3 fish (all smallies, 2 on an olive wooly bugger and one on a dry fly). Had acouple more on but lost them. 

I have one question however. I was noticing that my fly would sometimes fall short of where the tippet/line would hit the water maybe 75% of the time. I can mend the line to get everything back in order.

I have WF5F Courtland platinum trout line which seems to load my rod well and casts well, in the backyard lol.

I was using 5x frog hair for my tippets and they were between 2 and 3 feet. Using aircore brand poly tapered leaders (5.5 feet if I remember right). 

Not sure if this is a tippet problem (length, weight), leader problem, or a fly weight problem (least likely in my mind as my wooly buggers were doing it and light/small dry flies were doing it too) or a casting problem (maybe sloppy on the back and/or forward motion).

Good news is that I did catch fish and had fun and I'm "hooked" already. Only lost a couple of flies (one to a tree, ooopps and I bullwhipped one to oblivian, lol). But I left the water with a ton more confidence than I entered it with so I'm happy.

Let me know what you guys think about my question. Gonna Shultz's tommorow while at work and see what they think.

J-


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

I would hazzard a guess and say you are probably stopping your forward cast too low.


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## wartfroggy (Jan 25, 2007)

plugger said:


> I would hazzard a guess and say you are probably stopping your forward cast too low.


 Agreed. If you stop your line just a little sooner, it will cause the leader to roll out nicer, with the fly out at the end.


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## jjc155 (Oct 16, 2005)

copy thanks guys. I can almost gaurentee that is it. Thinking back to the casts that just felt awesome and they were the ones that straightened out nice. 

I'll work more in the back yard and hopefully get back out atleast once this week to see how I progress.

Thanks again,
J-


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## hairyjoe123 (Dec 26, 2010)

jjc155 said:


> copy thanks guys. I can almost gaurentee that is it. Thinking back to the casts that just felt awesome and they were the ones that straightened out nice.
> 
> I'll work more in the back yard and hopefully get back out atleast once this week to see how I progress.
> 
> ...


I bet that low stop is the problem, I also find that too much yard practice is too. Use the yard to learn new casts and as a refreshment course after a long time off the water. After you get comfortable on land try to keep the skills on the water. The main reason for a low forward stop is pressure from a lack of on water experience and confidence. That self inflicted ailment can't be removed on land. 

My 2 ¢

Lets go, hurry up, there's fish to be had!


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## BobB(MI) (Jan 6, 2004)

Good suggestions.

I also noticed you said you were throwing a wooly bugger and a dry fly. I'm assuming the dry was significanly smaller that the bugger? With a 5x tippet, that would be too light for most buggers I throw. 5x matches well with fly sizes 14 and 16 with 12 being okay, but a better match for 4X. If the bugger is say a size 8, you really should be using something around 3X for the tippet.

A larger diameter tippet will turn over the larger fly better. Not sure if you were noticing the dry dropping as often as the bugger, or if it happened more with the bugger? If it was more or less equal (and you were using a smaller dry), then I'd say it is a casting issue. If the dry straightened out, but the bugger did not, then it may be a mis-matched tippet issue.

Good luck - stay hooked!
Bob


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## jjc155 (Oct 16, 2005)

The dry flies seemed to straighten the Tippet out better but would still fall short sometimes. 

Makes sense about the fly size/Tippet size correalation. 

Sorry I don't know fly names and/or sizes yet might make it easier to figure out the problem. Lol. 

Thanks again
J-

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## wartfroggy (Jan 25, 2007)

hairyjoe123 said:


> I bet that low stop is the problem, I also find that too much yard practice is too. Use the yard to learn new casts and as a refreshment course after a long time off the water. After you get comfortable on land try to keep the skills on the water.


 The only real difference between casting in the yard, and casting in the river, is your elevation over your target. To make yard casting more accurate and a better practice, try yard casting from your knees. I stared doing this when I was first getting into throwing big bass bugs and hair poppers, and was having issues with hitting the water behind me on the back cast while wading. Kneeling down like that will simulate you standing up to your knees in the water. Too many times people will be casting good standing up in the yard, but you put them in the river and they issues with their fly rolling out or hitting the ground/water on a back cast. Kneeling down will help you simulate that same situation, and let you correct it in the yard before you get to the river/lake. I can't think of a single thing that yard practice will hurt, it is a great tool to help hone your casts and improve your accuracy. By trying to recreate the actual circumstances and situations that you will encounter on the water will make yard casting an even more valuable tool


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## FishermanJohn (Apr 24, 2007)

Couple things I can think of:

1). I agree with stopping the forward cast too low. Remember the "accelerate to a stop" and then as the line straightens out, THEN drop the rod tip to follow-through. I really like a tip that I read once before...lay a piece of rope straight out in front of and behind you and try to lay the fly line/leader on top of or parallel to the rope.

2). 5x is probably too light for a bugger/streamer...if you can only use one size leader then a 4x ought to handle both your dry and your streamer. Really, unless I'm fishing in extremely clear/calm water or line-shy fish I predominately fish 2x, 3x, or 4x.

Hope this helps...remember...practice casting in the yard is great for developing the basics but is no substitute for real time on the water. There's no better teacher than the experience of wind, side-arm casting under tag alders, and spooking a big fish because of a sloppy cast. :cwm27:


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## john warren (Jan 25, 2005)

don't practice in the yard.... the grass doesn't feel right. practice in a stream or lake.
lol ,actualy if your goin g to make a cast,,,,might as well be where theres fish.


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

On your forward cast a hard stop will straighten the leader better than a limp stop. Last night a buddy and I were trying to hit a small spot in brush with large hex flies. To straighten the leader and have the flie land right we would have to actualy pull back slightly at the very end to turn the leader over. and This would cause the flie to land with line and leader straight.


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## jjc155 (Oct 16, 2005)

been meaning to update this post incase anyone else is having this problem, which I have fixed lol

1) I upped my tippet size and that helped but was still having the problem intermintently.

2) made conscience effect for a good stop on the forward cast and that too helped.

3) and what seems to me helped the most, I found that I had what I would call a "lazy" backcast. I would not get a solid stop on the back cast and quite often was trying to time the start of my forward cast, while the line/rod was still moving back.

I started conscentrating on FEELING the rod load AFTER a solid stop on the back cast and voila! success.

Last time out last week I only had 2 or 3 casts where I thought to myself "What the heck was that?"

I also found, and this may be sacreligous in the fly fishing world lol, but it works for me, that if instead of trying to have my rod tip track completely vertical as it moves front to back, I let it track several degrees to the outside so that my back/fore casts are closer to a side arm cast, if that makes sense. 

Hope this thread can help someone else down the road and thanks to those that gave suggestions to me.

J-


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## jaytothekizzay (Apr 1, 2002)

That semi- side arm cast is my method of choice... ive been doin it for 15 years

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