# Hound Idea



## mark49331 (Sep 26, 2009)

gunner1 said:


> Need to change the seasons to those that want to hunt over bait can do so with out worry about their hard work going to a houndsman, let the dogs run on their own season. Nothing like watching a nice bear work your bait prior to your hunt and then watch dogs on your bait.
> 
> Just give each type of hunt its own season!


I agree with gunner,Its really a win/win situation.


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## jackbob42 (Nov 12, 2003)

gunner1 said:


> ..... Nothing like watching a nice bear work your bait prior to your hunt and then watch dogs on your bait.


You got any pictures of those dogs on your bait?
In all the complaining I've read on this site , not one time has anybody ever posted pictures of dogs on their bait site. NOT ONE TIME.

Besides that , you already have your season. It starts the 10th.
What do you want to do? Keep moving the hound season back untill your done hunting? LOL
You could have 3 months and if you didn't get a bear it would still be the hound hunters fault. LOL


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

JB42,

Its Just more anti-hunting rhetoric from a handful of individuals lacking the drive to get away from other users. Same catagory of individuals who put up tree stands on public land and complain if another hunter "dares" infringe on them. MDNR is responsible for giving this whining credibility...when in fact, nobody has private property rights on public land.

There is a partial solution. We could do what Idaho does and establish a baiting permit where an individual receives 3 ID tags to post at bait sites. It could be deemed a violation for anyone else to hunt off the tagged bait of another. It would likely cut down the number of baits by making the 3-bait limit enforceable...and we all know there's plenty of excess baiting going on. Might even improve the quailty of the hunting a little bit.


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## Bearboy (Feb 4, 2009)

Dogs do not chase away bear. I have dogs. I can run off a bait and the bear returns without interuption. If someone mass baits and pulls the bear away(like a commercial baiter) or shoots your bear its gone. Studies have been done with collared bear. BANG BANG not BOW WOW ends your bear hunt.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

bearboy,

While a bear may return to the bait once, I doubt that it will after multiple runs. At least not in the daylight and not for several days. I am not against dogs, I have some friends that run them and I have been there. I am a bait hunter/guide. So I do have some expierience with both. I believe that a split/rotating season is the best answer.

Now as far as the studies that you have mentioned several times.......How about posting them or a link, so we can see them ourselves. I have been looking and I dont think it exists.


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## sjohn139 (Aug 6, 2003)

Public property? Who can who can"t?


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## soggybtmboys (Feb 24, 2007)

jackbob42 said:


> You got any pictures of those dogs on your bait?
> In all the complaining I've read on this site , not one time has anybody ever posted pictures of dogs on their bait site. NOT ONE TIME.
> 
> Besides that , you already have your season. It starts the 10th.
> ...


 Not everyone runs cameras on their baits, and canines do indeed chase bears away from baits and to say otherwise is just an ignorant statement. We had to abandon a bait site because of wolves chasing bears out of the area behind Misery Bay. Do you think a bear draws a conclusion between a pack of wolves or a pack of baying dogs? I think not.


Rooster Cogburn said:


> JB42,
> 
> Its Just more anti-hunting rhetoric from a handful of individuals lacking the drive to get away from other users. Same catagory of individuals who put up tree stands on public land and complain if another hunter "dares" infringe on them. MDNR is responsible for giving this whining credibility...when in fact, nobody has private property rights on public land.
> 
> There is a partial solution. We could do what Idaho does and establish a baiting permit where an individual receives 3 ID tags to post at bait sites. It could be deemed a violation for anyone else to hunt off the tagged bait of another. It would likely cut down the number of baits by making the 3-bait limit enforceable...and we all know there's plenty of excess baiting going on. Might even improve the quailty of the hunting a little bit.


 When those of us who have prompted to get away from conflicts and go deeper and in areas that it is unreasonable to run hounds that deep, there is finger pointing that there are no bears and we must be running too many or to big of bait stations. Some of us are trying to get away from other user groups and we still can't seem to get away.

3 tag ID system does not seem to be a bad idea, as long as an outfitter can hold a bait for a fella who is indeed coming into town from downstate or other places to hunt, there is already a limit placed on how many baits a guide can operate this year and it was set at 12 per guide, that would be 4 hunters per guide, I think most reasonable people can live with that. The other side of the coin is that all treestands must already be marked with the hunters name, license number or address, otherwise they are in violation of the already established laws and an individual can only run three baits. So what is this shell game all about? Shutting down guiding on CFA/public lands all together. Try a different tactic, buck stops here.


Bearboy said:


> Dogs do not chase away bear. I have dogs. I can run off a bait and the bear returns without interuption. If someone mass baits and pulls the bear away(like a commercial baiter) *or shoots your bear its gone*. Studies have been done with collared bear. BANG BANG not BOW WOW ends your bear hunt.


Dogs do chase bears, and undue pressure will forced a bear to alter his patterns. This again is another ignorant statement. Houndsmen run baits to start dogs off, and the hounds have the ability to pick up trails of game animals that are hours old, just like I can throw my lab in a field and she can get on a pheasant that went thru hours ago.

And thus comes the crack of light in the door, the bold print. Your bear, my bear, someone has pissed in my cereal and taken my bear on public ground. Got news for you pal, and again I am just being straight.....it ain't your bear unless you harvest it.


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## Andy Drumm (Dec 23, 2008)

What I find interesting is why everyone seems to thinks hounds make baits go dead  and its always someone who doesnt hunt with hounds that makes this kind of statement .. 
we have ran the same bear off of baits all training season , and yet the bear returns .. hmm .. And this has happened every year .. 
Hound hunters spend way more time( in general ) than bait hunters do in the bear woods .. 
If baits went dead after one use with hounds, I could save a bunch of money by not baiting ..lol 

Most people have no clue what makes bears give up on a bait site .. Most times it is another bait hunter with a more desirable bait to the bears .. But there are many more factors that cause baits to go dead ..


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## soggybtmboys (Feb 24, 2007)

Andy Drumm said:


> What I find interesting is why everyone seems to thinks hounds make baits go dead  and its always someone who doesnt hunt with hounds that makes this kind of statement ..
> we have ran the same bear off of baits all training season , and yet the bear returns .. hmm .. And this has happened every year ..
> Hound hunters spend way more time( in general ) than bait hunters do in the bear woods ..
> If baits went dead after one use with hounds, I could save a bunch of money by not baiting ..lol
> ...


 
There are numerous reaons why a bait goes dead, alot of times it can be a sloppy hunter. No one is disputing that a bait won't go dead, it is a matter of when that bear will return, after he is spooked, he will return but only under the cover of darkness. Hounds can pick up a few hour scent trail and you are off and running. Try and stand sit that bait and see how much legal daylight activity you will see after a bear is spooked...nada.


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## Andy Drumm (Dec 23, 2008)

soggybtmboys said:


> There are numerous reaons why a bait goes dead, alot of times it can be a sloppy hunter. No one is disputing that a bait won't go dead, it is a matter of when that bear will return, after he is spooked, he will return but only under the cover of darkness. Hounds can pick up a few hour scent trail and you are off and running. Try and stand sit that bait and see how much legal daylight activity you will see after a bear is spooked...nada.



B.S. lol .. alot of our baits are hit in the middle of the day !!! we check them morning and night ... most of the time the baits will be cleaned out in the morning and again about 5 in the evening ... 


But I guess maybe bears react differently where you are watching them ..


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## soggybtmboys (Feb 24, 2007)

Andy Drumm said:


> B.S. lol .. alot of our baits are hit in the middle of the day !!! we check them morning and night ... most of the time the baits will be cleaned out in the morning and again about 5 in the evening ...
> 
> 
> But I guess maybe bears react differently where you are watching them ..


 
LOL, where are you baiting, the Toledo Zoo! Some bears will hit during the day, but come on man, I know better than that to say alot of your baits are hitting during the day? Please, I would say a better assesment would be in the neighborhood of 30% at best early in the season. The later it goes, the percentage would decline. Nice try bro.


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## Andy Drumm (Dec 23, 2008)

See , you cant argue with ignorance !!! obviously you have spent many years following hounds as well as baiting !!
And know way more than any of us other guys !! 

Congratulations on becoming the expert !! 

You call me a liar ? I guess when you spend the time in the woods instead of paying your guide , I will respect your opinion .. Until then , I know what I have seen , I dont need to make a better assessment lol , I have been doing this for a decent amount of time ..


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## soggybtmboys (Feb 24, 2007)

Andy Drumm said:


> See , you cant argue with ignorance !!! obviously you have spent many years following hounds as well as baiting !!
> And know way more than any of us other guys !!
> 
> Congratulations on becoming the expert !!
> ...


 
Not claiming to be an expert, but I will tell you this son. I spend alot more time in the woods then probably 80% of the guys on this site, chasing all kinds of fish and game, and I also trap and I do it all over the state. But alot of the claims made here are just plain falicies.


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## Andy Drumm (Dec 23, 2008)

soggybtmboys said:


> Not claiming to be an expert, but I will tell you this son. I spend alot more time in the woods then probably 80% of the guys on this site, chasing all kinds of fish and game, and I also trap and I do it all over the state. But alot of the claims made here are just plain falicies.


 How many days a year do you spend in the woods bear hunting ?? How many days a year do you spend bear hunting with hounds ?? 

With your opinions you must hunt bear alot !! Using both methods ... who do you hunt with ?? I know many people who bear hunt ..Maybe we know some of the same people ..


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## jackbob42 (Nov 12, 2003)

soggybtmboys said:


> Not claiming to be an expert, but I will tell you this son. I spend alot more time in the woods then probably 80% of the guys on this site, chasing all kinds of fish and game, and I also trap and I do it all over the state. But alot of the claims made here are just plain falicies.


With all that experience , you should have no problem setting up where you don't have to worry about hound hunters.
Care to give a few pointers in what kind of area you can set up a bait and not worry about the hounds?


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

jackbob42 said:


> With all that experience , you should have no problem setting up where you don't have to worry about hound hunters.
> Care to give a few pointers in what kind of area you can set up a bait and not worry about the hounds?


 Well I am not soggy, but as far as getting away from the hounds. I find that you need to get as far into an inaccessable area as possible. a long ways from any road/trail and across some water. 2-3 MILES IN WORKS FOR US.

........Just now as I was typing this I got a call that one our hunters connected. He is an older guy, diehard archery hunter (MBHA..SOGGY), And says its a big one. I cant go out till the wife gets home for the kids:sad:. Sounds like its going to require tracking, and a looooong recovery, hopefully I will miss that part:lol:


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## Beartreed (May 8, 2008)

Reading these posts makes it hard to believe that around 75% of bears taken are shot over bait. I guess there must be 1 or 2 baits in the state that the hounds haven't found yet,but I'll keep looking til I find every last one


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## Beartreed (May 8, 2008)

Before everyone gets to typing,this was a tongue in cheek comment.


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## jackbob42 (Nov 12, 2003)

swampbuck said:


> Well I am not soggy, but as far as getting away from the hounds. I find that you need to get as far into an inaccessable area as possible. a long ways from any road/trail and across some water. 2-3 MILES IN WORKS FOR US.
> 
> ........Just now as I was typing this I got a call that one our hunters connected. He is an older guy, diehard archery hunter (MBHA..SOGGY), And says its a big one. I cant go out till the wife gets home for the kids:sad:. Sounds like its going to require tracking, and a looooong recovery, hopefully I will miss that part:lol:


If you were to befriend a few houndsman and learn a little more about hounding , you could find a place alot easier to get in and out of. :lol:
If you're willing to PM me the area , so I can look it up on google earth ( gps coordinates ) , I could probably pick you an easy spot. 

And congrats on the bear ! (and the work! :lol


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## gunner1 (Jan 25, 2006)

I forgot who was it that fought to have the rules and regs changed for snares (that could only be placed on private land) who was it that fought to have the trapping season for bobcats terminated in the lower but still wanted to take clients out to harvest cats. who was it that had the coniber reg changed. Could it be the organization that has a full time lobbist in Lansing (houndsmen).

You have weakend the strength of michigan sportsman, you have divided the outdoor groups in such an anti fighting time.

Stop slinging mud, If fellow sportsman really did in to what the houndsmen have changed for other people u might be sorry.

Simply stated a season for each type of bear hunt, no overlapping seasons, no five day for one and a month for the other just a season for each would correct alot of the current complaints.


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