# Enbridge must cease operations of the pipelines by May of 2021.



## wpmisport

Whitmer and Department of Natural Resources Director Dan Eichinger notified Enbridge the 1953 easement allowing it to operate dual pipelines in the Straits of Mackinac to transport petroleum is being revoked and terminated.

https://www.wnem.com/news/whitmer-t...2-11eb-a839-f3d20471826d.html?block_id=997206


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## ThreeDogsDown

How does this benefit the public? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kisutch

It is truly amazing how the general public has no idea how energy gets delivered. Warren Buffett, that old prune, has fought the Keystone Pipeline since day one. He owns railroad tanker cars up the ying yang. Amazing the inefficiencies in that delivery system. Pipelines are the only way to move fossil fuels. Period. All hail the "propellers". Wind should only be for political dialogue not BS energy production.

Kisutch


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## Lund Explorer

ThreeDogsDown said:


> How does this benefit the public?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Canadian Oil can stay in Canada. If and when the pipe breaks, let it foul their lands/water.


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## BMARKS

She's a moron. The project she is blocking was to tunnel through the bedrock below the straights and run the pipe through the bore as a replacement for the underwater one that gets damaged by dumb ship captains who cant anchor their ships without floating away.


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## baycountyhunter

Enbridge should shut it down now, when the UP and Northern lower Michigan have $10 a gallon propane this winter we'll see how long Whitmer lasts or the UP decides to leave Michigan and create their own new State.


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## Wyandotte

BMARKS said:


> She's a moron. The project she is blocking was to tunnel through the bedrock below the straights and run the pipe through the bore as a replacement for the underwater one that gets damaged by dumb ship captains who cant anchor their ships without floating away.


I'm with you on this. The reality is there will always be a pipeline of some sort crossing the straits of Mackinac It would be better to have one encased in concrete that is anchor proof, instead of the current one that is aging, and like you said, exposed to damage from whatever above.


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## DecoySlayer

Hold on to your wallets, this is only the beginning.


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## mbirdsley

The tunnel probably would have been half way done if not completed by now. If it was for interference in Lansing 


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## DecoySlayer

So much for the word of the People. The legislature has already spoken.


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## Lund Explorer

Do any of you know what gets piped through Line-5, where it comes from, or where it ends up at?

Junk tar sands oil from Canada, piped through the USA (to save the Canadian environment) and ending up in Sarnia. Thanks God we get to keep their trash in our landfills!


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## Botiz

Eff Enbridge. 

They are responsible for the #1 and #2 worst inland oil spills in our history.


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## DecoySlayer

Botiz said:


> Eff Enbridge.
> 
> They are responsible for the #1 and #2 worst inland oil spills in our history.


Just watch your wallet, the price of fuel, and as a result, everything, is about to skyrocket.


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## Botiz

So be it. It is long passed time that we stop worrying about Me! Me! Me!

We can’t safely eat fish from anywhere in our state. There are areas where we can’t safely eat the animals anymore either. 

But who gives a ****, it’s Me! Me! Me! 

I have had enough of listening to people in Michigan talk to me about how “outdoors” they are, only to run home to meet the True Green man or vote to have their lake sprayed to kill weeds.


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## piketroller

It’s all a political stunt. Our current governor and attorney general have been fighting this since they were elected two years ago, but look what quietly happened at the end of July this year: https://www.enbridge.com/Stories/2020/August/St-Clair-River-HDD-project-complete.aspx

That’s right, they let the project on the other underwater crossing of Line 5 finish and go into operation in Marysville. There are dozens of other pipelines under the St Clair River feeding Ontario’s chemical valley. If a pipeline rupture there, in 24-30 hours it’s in Lake St Clair and then going down the Detroit River shortly after that and onto Erie. These waterways are the water sources for millions of of people in Southeast Michigan and many on the Canadian side as well.

Where should the focus be if politicians wanted to up there Eco-credential between the sparsely populated Straights of Mackinac area or the upper St Clair River that could impact the drinking water of millions of people? The answer is the one that could impact more people.


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## Lund Explorer

DecoySlayer said:


> Just watch your wallet, the price of fuel, and as a result, everything, is about to skyrocket.


Care to explain what percentage of the oil used in THIS country comes from Enbridge's Line #5?


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## wpmisport

It's been there for 67 years -

The video and photos given to the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation show a gash across the east pipeline, and several dents and scrapes on the west pipeline. In written testimony Enbridge identifies three dents on the pipelines caused by the anchor strike, the longest was more than 23 inches.

https://www.michiganradio.org/post/photos-and-video-damage-line-5-released


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## Shoeman

Good!

Encapsulate it or shut it down! Just the thought of a breach!


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## Kisutch

Who here is going to buy me my Tesla. That electricity ain't coming from some wind turbine that is not spinning. You guys have know idea what makes the economy go round. For 75% of your lives you had know idea that things like this existed. Now you are all environmentalist. Please park your internal combustion vehicles and let the rest of the world keep moving. Better yet cut the power to your house and tell me how that's working for you. So sick of people not understanding what makes our lives better. 

Kisutch 

God Bless Dr Howard Tanner 

Former Lake Michigan Stakeholder 

Lake Michigan Lake Trout Gillnetters Association Join now 

Alewife what?


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## windmaker

What is the reasoning they are using to hold up the tunnel under the straits that was approved during the Engle administration 
Idea seemed the best to protect then pipelines from a leak.


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## windmaker

windmaker said:


> What is the reasoning they are using to hold up the tunnel under the straits that was approved during the Engle administration
> Idea seemed the best to protect then pipelines from a leak.


Engler


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## DecoySlayer

Shoeman said:


> Good!
> 
> Encapsulate it or shut it down! Just the thought of a breach!



Whitmer does not want the tunnel built. It would work. She wants it shut down, to drive up energy prices for everyone to save the planet.


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## windmaker

DecoySlayer said:


> Whitmer does not want the tunnel built. It would work. She wants it shut down, to drive up energy prices for everyone to save the planet.


Very short-sighted thinking.
Don’t people realized that oil is the basis for many plastics and chemicals. Those windmills are not built from all natural ingredients


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## Lund Explorer

Kisutch said:


> Who here is going to buy me my Tesla. That electricity ain't coming from some wind turbine that is not spinning. You guys have know idea what makes the economy go round. For 75% of your lives you had know idea that things like this existed. Now you are all environmentalist. Please park your internal combustion vehicles and let the rest of the world keep moving. Better yet cut the power to your house and tell me how that's working for you. So sick of people not understanding what makes our lives better.
> 
> Kisutch
> 
> God Bless Dr Howard Tanner
> 
> Former Lake Michigan Stakeholder
> 
> Lake Michigan Lake Trout Gillnetters Association Join now
> 
> Alewife what?


It sure is nice that someone knew came on here to tell us everything he nose. Sure hope it helps us that have know idea what we are supposed to no.


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## Kisutch

I was the third post to this thread. Not knew to any of this. I nose a bit more than sum of U. Chickens eat where they crap. Pigs on the other hand crap in one area and eat in another. I also nose how meet ends up on the table. Elon Musk is a joke. So is "global warming" or is it "climate change. Believe it or not I plan on exhaling some CO2 today.

Kisutch 

God Bless Dr Howard Tanner 

Former Lake Michigan Stakeholder 

Lake Michigan Lake Trout Gillnetters Association Join now 

Alewife what?


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## Vandal

Lund Explorer said:


> Care to explain what percentage of the oil used in THIS country comes from Enbridge's Line #5?





windmaker said:


> Very short-sighted thinking.
> Don’t people realized that oil is the basis for many plastics and chemicals. Those windmills are not built from all natural ingredients


Look up how much oil and revenue Michigan gets from line 5.


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## Vandal

Vandal said:


> Look up how much oil and revenue Michigan gets from line 5.


Short sighted is not seeking an alternative to oil based plastics. Google “ocean plastics” or “Great Lakes plastic pollution” You and I have benefitted from innovation and finding better cleaner ways to do things. It’s what America has always done. Sticking to old technology and not finding better answers is what Eastern Europe used to do.


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## Vandal

Vandal said:


> Short sighted is not seeking an alternative to oil based plastics. Google “ocean plastics” or “Great Lakes plastic pollution” You and I have benefitted from innovation and finding better cleaner ways to do things. It’s what America has always done. Sticking to old technology and not finding better answers is what Eastern Europe used to do.


Why do politically charged people always bring up wind energy?
It’s a part, a small part, of meting future energy needs. Literally every country on the planet will still be using fossil fuels in 2050, but literally every country on the planet is trying to achieve energy independence by 2050. That means a variety of energy sources. It’s short sighted not to realize that eventually fossil fuels will become more expensive and harder to economically extract.


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## Vandal

Vandal said:


> Why do politically charged people always bring up wind energy?
> It’s a part, a small part, of meting future energy needs. Literally every country on the planet will still be using fossil fuels in 2050, but literally every country on the planet is trying to achieve energy independence by 2050. That means a variety of energy sources. It’s short sighted not to realize that eventually fossil fuels will become more expensive and harder to economically extract.


Lastly what I posted is not meant to be political. It’s economics and science. When decisions are based on politics it is generally opinion based which is easy to come by. Real problems are solved through innovative people coming up with a better way. We’d still be using DDT as a pesticide if we just stuck to what works as opposed to what works better. Yes I drive an internal combustion engine, no there isn’t another viable option right now. Does that mean we don’t look for a better fuel source? Short sighted.


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## windmaker

Vandal said:


> Lastly what I posted is not meant to be political. It’s economics and science. When decisions are based on politics it is generally opinion based which is easy to come by. Real problems are solved through innovative people coming up with a better way. We’d still be using DDT as a pesticide if we just stuck to what works as opposed to what works better. Yes I drive an internal combustion engine, no there isn’t another viable option right now. Does that mean we don’t look for a better fuel source? Short sighted.


So are you opposed to making the use of oil as safe as possible until alternative products are available? Such as improving a know safety defect in the current pipeline configuration. It seems like the current administration of our state has politicized the issue instead of “following the science “ and protecting our lakes


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## windmaker

windmaker said:


> So are you opposed to making the use of oil as safe as possible until alternative products are available? Such as improving a know safety defect in the current pipeline configuration. It seems like the current administration of our state has politicized the issue instead of “following the science “ and protecting our lakes


Known


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## Lund Explorer

I guess we need to start a taxpayer funded account so that when Enbridge has yet another pipeline rupture, we can give them the cash. NO great patriotic company should lose money, when they are our sole source of energy.


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## DecoySlayer

Vandal said:


> Short sighted is not seeking an alternative to oil based plastics. Google “ocean plastics” or “Great Lakes plastic pollution” You and I have benefitted from innovation and finding better cleaner ways to do things. It’s what America has always done. Sticking to old technology and not finding better answers is what Eastern Europe used to do.


Tell those who's cost for propane doubles, or more, how they are helping out. I am sure they will feel good about not being able to heat their homes.


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## DecoySlayer

As for plastics, companies only make what someone wants to purchase. Much of the problem with the mess they make is caused by the consumer not caring what they do. As per normal, look in the mirror first. It's FAR easier to point fingers at the big, bad, greedy, boogie man, than it is to accept your responsibility in creating the mess.


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## Lund Explorer

DecoySlayer said:


> It's FAR easier to point fingers at the big, bad, greedy, boogie man, than it is to accept your responsibility in creating the mess.


Couldn't agree more... That's why I have to wonder why so many choose to ignore the many pipeline failures that Enbridge has had over the years. Blaming the consumer, but not the supplier is the Great American way.


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## Pete R

Kisutch said:


> I was the third post to this thread. Not knew to any of this. I nose a bit more than sum of U. Chickens eat where they crap. Pigs on the other hand crap in one area and eat in another. I also nose how meet ends up on the table. Elon Musk is a joke. So is "global warming" or is it "climate change. Believe it or not I plan on exhaling some CO2 today.
> 
> Kisutch
> 
> God Bless Dr Howard Tanner
> 
> Former Lake Michigan Stakeholder
> 
> Lake Michigan Lake Trout Gillnetters Association Join now
> 
> Alewife what?


How do I join the trout gillnetters association 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## Luv2hunteup

Something needs to be done with the aging line 5. Most northern Michigan townships depend on tax money that comes through their area. I was shocked when I heard how much Enbridge pays for the privilege to cross land. It’s a double edge sword getting rid of it. The tunnel is a great idea to cross the Straits. I’m just not sure mixing electrical transmission lines and an oil and gas tunnel is wise. 

I live on the big lake and can see the bridge so a oil line rupture would be devastating us. It’s not just the Straits that’s in jeopardy the pipeline crosses Indian River 30 miles away and a rupture there would be equally devastating. Enbridge should be required to have insurance to cover all clean up costs but unfortunately it doesn’t.


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## BMARKS

Lund Explorer said:


> I guess we need to start a taxpayer funded account so that when Enbridge has yet another pipeline rupture, we can give them the cash. NO great patriotic company should lose money, when they are our sole source of energy.


please state the alternative to a pipeline... ill be waiting.


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## Lund Explorer

BMARKS said:


> please state the alternative to a pipeline... ill be waiting.


Wait all you want because I doubt it will help you. Go back and read Post #4.

Oil coming from Canada, could run through Canadian Provinces, but that would mean they'd risk a spill in their own country. So much better that it runs through ours so when the pipeline does burst, they can file bankruptcy and let American taxpayers fund the cleanup.

Of course, some people think we've got it made when truck loads of their trash comes into our state to get buried.


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## FREEPOP

Lund Explorer said:


> Of course, some people think we've got it made when truck loads of their trash comes into our state to get buried.


Of course, they're shipping wolverines over too


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## Lund Explorer

FREEPOP said:


> Of course, they're shipping wolverines over too


Maybe we should thank them by sending Harbaugh to them!


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## Lund Explorer

BMARKS said:


> oh and that would deliver it to homes in cheboygan?


What's the name of the refinery in that town?

BTW, how's life on the beautiful Sanford and Wixom Lakes these days? Has the owner rebuilt those dams yet?


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## BMARKS

Line 5 supplies 65% of propane demand in the Upper Peninsula, and 55% of Michigan's statewide propane needs.


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## Lund Explorer

BMARKS said:


> The owner is the are the lakeside residents, they haven't started their project as of now.
> 
> did i say cheboygan, i meant charlevoix.


Golly Gee..... And here I thought some power company owned those facilities when they failed.

What's the name of the refinery in Charlevoix?


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## piketroller

BMARKS said:


> it is an absolute matter of fact that gas prices for your average mecosta county idiot will go up. what kind of idiot cant understand that.


You don’t understand that he isn’t arguing the opposite side of the coin as you; it’s a whole different argument. The people that want line 5 shut down want the same thing as all the opposition to the keystone XL pipeline, off shore drilling, and anything else related to the fossil fuel industry. They want the industry to disappear. More expensive energy prices help with that. Making a company like Embridge to spend a ton of money and effort on the new line 5 tunnel and pulling the rug out from under it is a standard move to drive up their costs that will ultimately be passed to customers or put them out of business if they can’t.


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## BMARKS

piketroller said:


> You don’t understand that he isn’t arguing the opposite side of the coin as you; it’s a whole different argument. The people that want line 5 shut down want the same thing as all the opposition to the keystone XL pipeline, off shore drilling, and anything else related to the fossil fuel industry. They want the industry to disappear. More expensive energy prices help with that. Making a company like Embridge to spend a ton of money and effort on the new line 5 tunnel and pulling the rug out from under it is a standard move to drive up their costs that will ultimately be passed to customers or put them out of business if they can’t.


Yeah just absolute nonsense when there is actually zero alternative. like what do these morons think will happen. people will cut down all the trees so they can eat and not freeze to death. what a completely stupid thing to even think.


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## Shoeman

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enbridge_Line_5


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## Slimshady

piketroller said:


> You don’t understand that he isn’t arguing the opposite side of the coin as you; it’s a whole different argument. The people that want line 5 shut down want the same thing as all the opposition to the keystone XL pipeline, off shore drilling, and anything else related to the fossil fuel industry. They want the industry to disappear. More expensive energy prices help with that. Making a company like Embridge to spend a ton of money and effort on the new line 5 tunnel and pulling the rug out from under it is a standard move to drive up their costs that will ultimately be passed to customers or put them out of business if they can’t.


I think we are all in agreement that something needs to happen with line 5 before there is a disaster. Where we disagree is what. Some want it shut down altogether and others support the tunnel making it safer. I am in the second camp.


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## Lund Explorer

I'm in the camp that understands that when (not if) Line 5 starts pumping oil into the straits that the company responsible for the disaster will simply walk away from the cost by filing bankruptcy. The mere fact that our oil and/or natural gas needs can be brought up from the south like much of it already is, makes me think it isn't worth the risk.

Then again, I don't think I'll be reduced to eating all the trees as others plan on.


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## waldowillie

See if you can guess who this energy expert is:

I was born in Canada and struggled at physics and chemistry in high school.

I never obtained a Bachelor of Science degree in college but did obtain a degree in the science of politics.

I was a contestant on the TV show "The Dating Game", I attempted a Hollywood acting career but failed, and I had to settle for being a tour guide at Universal Studios in California.

Early this century, I helped create the highest unemployment rate ever for the U.S. auto industry.

Presently, I know very little about thermodynamics, but due to my achievements and qualifications I have been nominated to be your next Energy Secretary for the United States of America.

(Acknowledgements to wikipedia)


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## wpmisport

More propaganda -
https://www.mlive.com/sponsor-content/?scid=161221&prx_t=cF4GAIEtJAnc0LA


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## piketroller

waldowillie said:


> See if you can guess who this energy expert is:
> 
> I was born in Canada and struggled at physics and chemistry in high school.
> 
> I never obtained a Bachelor of Science degree in college but did obtain a degree in the science of politics.
> 
> I was a contestant on the TV show "The Dating Game", I attempted a Hollywood acting career but failed, and I had to settle for being a tour guide at Universal Studios in California.
> 
> Early this century, I helped create the highest unemployment rate ever for the U.S. auto industry.
> 
> Presently, I know very little about thermodynamics, but due to my achievements and qualifications I have been nominated to be your next Energy Secretary for the United States of America.
> 
> (Acknowledgements to wikipedia)


Prepare to be blown away, version 2.0


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## Luv2hunteup

piketroller said:


> You don’t understand that he isn’t arguing the opposite side of the coin as you; it’s a whole different argument. The people that want line 5 shut down want the same thing as all the opposition to the keystone XL pipeline, off shore drilling, and anything else related to the fossil fuel industry. They want the industry to disappear. More expensive energy prices help with that. Making a company like Embridge to spend a ton of money and effort on the new line 5 tunnel and pulling the rug out from under it is a standard move to drive up their costs that will ultimately be passed to customers or put them out of business if they can’t.


I’m all for trash dumps, prisons, pipelines, mining operations as long as it’s not in my front yard. Line 5 has recently been hit by an anchor from a tug/barge plus a support was damaged by their own contractors. There is no harm in boring a tunnel in the rock below the Straits. So what if the end users have a tiny bit added to their bill. It will take about two years to bore and Enbridge is willing to eat the cost. Taxes per township where the pipelines already runs are well into the mid six figure range is incentive enough for politicians to keep it up and running.


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## Chessieman

waldowillie said:


> See if you can guess who this energy expert is:
> 
> I was born in Canada and struggled at physics and chemistry in high school.
> 
> I never obtained a Bachelor of Science degree in college but did obtain a degree in the science of politics.
> 
> I was a contestant on the TV show "The Dating Game", I attempted a Hollywood acting career but failed, and I had to settle for being a tour guide at Universal Studios in California.
> 
> Early this century, I helped create the highest unemployment rate ever for the U.S. auto industry.
> 
> Presently, I know very little about thermodynamics, but due to my achievements and qualifications I have been nominated to be your next Energy Secretary for the United States of America.
> 
> (Acknowledgements to wikipedia)



Let me guess, the one that wish she was a Queen! You forgot about paying your taxes ahead of time by a year!


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## piketroller

Luv2hunteup said:


> I’m all for trash dumps, prisons, pipelines, mining operations as long as it’s not in my front yard. Line 5 has recently been hit by an anchor from a tug/barge plus a support was damaged by their own contractors. There is no harm in boring a tunnel in the rock below the Straits. So what if the end users have a tiny bit added to their bill. It will take about two years to bore and Enbridge is willing to eat the cost. Taxes per township where the pipelines already runs are well into the mid six figure range is incentive enough for politicians to keep it up and running.


The new tunnel is being held up by the same hand trying to shut the line down now.


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## Luv2hunteup

piketroller said:


> The new tunnel is being held up by the same hand trying to shut the line down now.


I’m aware of that. It’s a hot topic for the Straits community where I live. I have a friend who works for Enbridge so I get info from him. Nothing top secret just what the foreign corporation is telling their employees about their plan. Being retired from the electrical construction industry I’ve seen what happens when high voltage lines fail. Failing in close proximity to a high pressure propane line could lead to disastrous consequences. 

Saying no to the tunnel as proposed may be a good idea. Shutting down the oil pipeline may be a good idea until Enbridge shows they can fully fund clean up and all reimbursement costs to all stakeholder via insurance. Transporting propane doesn’t pose the environmental risks as oil crude oil does so it’s an option until the tunnel is completed. There has to be a plan that both parties and Straits stakeholders can agree on.


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## IceHog

Interesting information, most likely the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

https://forloveofwater.org/fact-che...y-and-union-refinery-jobs-will-still-exist-2/


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## piketroller

The state approved the tunnel permit today.









Michigan approves Great Lakes oil pipeline tunnel permits


Michigan's environmental agency said Friday it has approved construction of an underground tunnel to house a replacement for a controversial oil pipeline in a channel linking two of the Great Lakes.




www.mprnews.org





I'm not sure how they approve a permit to tunnel through an easement that the governor revoked unless that means the easement revocation is also crumbling.


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## 22 Chuck

mbirdsley said:


> The tunnel probably would have been half way done if not completed by now. If it was for interference in Lansing
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And now we have interference from Washington on the Keystone. Obama kep it from being started. Buffet probably paid MILLIONS.

His RailRoad gets $30/barrel hauling oil from Canada to Tex and other places. Read recently where pipe can do for $10 but that dont help Buffet. Anyone ever ask how much that dude and Gates pay in Fed income tax or any taxes??


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## sourdough44

I got a call this eve on my cell. Since it showed sorta local I took it, medical procedure tomorrow. The call was a survey about energy & pipelines. It took a while to come through, but it seemed to be in the ‘Pro-Enbridge’ side of the matter.

I would usually hang up without a word, but I did the whole 15 minutes worth.

Later in the survey I could sense some pro energy drift. Much was about general energy delivery & my opinion about pipelines, safety, & rail, truck, & barge methods.

It also mentioned a bunch of anti groups that want to shut down pipelines, how familiar I was with several, most no.

I think in part it was checking if any public relation efforts were helping.

They ended with asking about political leanings & general comments. 

I’d still like to split the grid, if you don’t like conventional power, have at it with wind & solar. I’m thinking we can make a better pipeline than was possible in the 1950’s.


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## Fishndude

sourdough44 said:


> I got a call this eve on my cell. Since it showed sorta local I took it, medical procedure tomorrow. The call was a survey about energy & pipelines. It took a while to come through, but it seemed to be in the ‘Pro-Enbridge’ side of the matter.
> 
> I would usually hang up without a word, but I did the whole 15 minutes worth.
> 
> Later in the survey I could sense some pro energy drift. Much was about general energy delivery & my opinion about pipelines, safety, & rail, truck, & barge methods.
> 
> It also mentioned a bunch of anti groups that want to shut down pipelines, how familiar I was with several, most no.
> 
> I think in part it was checking if any public relation efforts were helping.
> 
> They ended with asking about political leanings & general comments.
> 
> I’d still like to split the grid, if you don’t like conventional power, have at it with wind & solar. I’m thinking we can make a better pipeline than was possible in the 1950’s.


You do realize that those "Marketing Surveys" are used to determine who to sell your information to, for solicitation purposes, right? That is their sole purpose. Now you'll get lots of specific targeted solicitations, based on the answers you gave. Some people like that, I guess.


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