# New Legislation introduced in Michigan for “Assault Weapon” ban.



## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

That didn’t take long at all…🤬


December 01, 2022, Introduced by Rep. Pepper and referred to the Committee on Military, Veterans and Homeland Security.



http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2021-2022/billintroduced/House/htm/2022-HIB-6544.htm


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## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

I'll quietly watch(I hope). They're never getting my firearms.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

When liars rule.


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

6Speed said:


> I'll quietly watch(I hope). They're never getting my firearms.


Don’t worry…. According to the proposed legislation you can keep what you own as long as you register it and pay a sin tax every 5 years.


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

I don't think this will pass. Never pictured my 10/22 with a thumb hole stock to be considered an assault weapon. The barrel shroud is an interesting feature to ban.


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

Is there an exemption for police departments or they aren’t considered persons I guess


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

Can't pay a tax on something you don't own. I'm sure many people will have bills of sale for the ARs they "Use" to own. I know a lot of people that already have the bill of sales for theirs.


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

sparky18181 said:


> Is there an exemption for police departments or they aren’t considered persons I guess


Won't effect those places


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## brewster (May 30, 2010)

dead short said:


> Don’t worry…. According to the proposed legislation you can keep what you own as long as you register it and pay a sin tax every 5 years.



That would be the big worry.


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

LGB said:


> Won't effect those places


Doesn’t show exemptions that I saw.


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

sparky18181 said:


> Is there an exemption for police departments or they aren’t considered persons I guess


My guess is that under subsection three… the rules would include exceptions for the gubment.


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

I guess if you bought thru private sale then there is no paper trail.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

bowhunter426 said:


> I don't think this will pass. Never pictured my 10/22 with a thumb hole stock to be considered an assault weapon. The barrel shroud is an interesting feature to ban.


It is all about appearance, nothing that makes any real world difference.


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

I’m sure this will completely and forever stop the use of these weapons being used for mass killings in Michigan. What a fricking joke


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

bowhunter426 said:


> I don't think this will pass. Never pictured my 10/22 with a thumb hole stock to be considered an assault weapon. The barrel shroud is an interesting feature to ban.


You’re probably right in that it won’t pass with this original wording. Given who has total control of the state government coming up, I would be surprised if it doesn’t pass, even if it does take on changes.


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## U D (Aug 1, 2012)

Any rifle with a removable clip or detachable magazine?? Really??

Sent from my SM-A102U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

Gonna be real hard for any government to identify a Remington, Browning or Winchester semi auto hunting rifle as an assault rifle. They can call it whatever they want but there IS a real definition of an assault rifle and that ain't it. Gonna be interesting for sure.


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

The definition of an assault rifle is a selective fire magazine fed rifle. Last time I checked, none of my ARs are selective fire. M16 rifles are. They are assault rifles.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

dead short said:


> That didn’t take long at all…🤬
> 
> 
> December 01, 2022, Introduced by Rep. Pepper and referred to the Committee on Military, Veterans and Homeland Security.
> ...


No Surprise


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

dead short said:


> Don’t worry…. According to the proposed legislation you can keep what you own as long as you register it and pay a sin tax every 5 years.


F-ck that, they won’t ever get my sh-t


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

LGB said:


> Can't pay a tax on something you don't own. I'm sure many people will have bills of sale for the ARs they "Use" to own. I know a lot of people that already have the bill of sales for theirs.


I ain’t providing them jack squat, they can’t have any of mine, they would get further jumping off a bridge


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

I don't think the bill calls for confiscating them, only future purchases. I'll have my bill of sale for mine ready when they ask for a sin tax.


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

dead short said:


> You’re probably right in that it won’t pass with this original wording. Given who has total control of the state government coming up, I would be surprised if it doesn’t pass, even if it does take on changes.


Aside from who is in control all they did was reduce content in this law from the last attempt. They removed the pump action from this law and the muzzle break feature and pistols.

Based on my recollection that last bill originated out of Detroit and was dead on arrival with little support from either side once out of Detriot. 


The lawmakers trying to pass these bills would probably have a heart attack when they see people actually do hunt with MSRs


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

LGB said:


> The definition of an assault rifle is a selective fire magazine fed rifle. Last time I checked, none of my ARs are selective fire. M16 rifles are. They are assault rifles.


How bout an M-4, select, full combat ready. Do ya think they will surround the house and bring the swat team out to get it?


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## bobberbill (Apr 5, 2011)

I have to do a little research on 'Pepper'. don't think it's gonna fly.


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

Can’t wait for this protest in lansing. They thought the Covid protest was something. Oh boy


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

bobberbill said:


> I have to do a little research on 'Pepper'. don't think it's gonna fly.


Dealt with him plenty of times in his given profession.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

sparky18181 said:


> Dealt with him plenty of times in his given profession.


He’s a Jackwagon!


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## cwk33041 (Dec 30, 2013)

sparky18181 said:


> Is there an exemption for police departments or they aren’t considered persons I guess


These same people want to ban cops..You're doubled screwed lol

Anyways, I was surprised to see a thumhole stock on there. It's the most comfortable stock I have ever used.


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## bobberbill (Apr 5, 2011)

Pepper Introduces Legislation Against Gun Violence


LANSING, Mich., Dec. 1, 2022 — As the anniversary of the shooting tragedy at Oxford High School approached, state Rep. Jeffery Pepper (D-Dearborn) introduced two bills today aiding in the fight against gun violence. House Bill 6544 would ban the possession and sale of assault weapons generally...



housedems.com


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

C


sparky18181 said:


> Can’t wait for this protest in lansing. They thought the Covid protest was something. Oh boy


Check out 6546


http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2021-2022/billintroduced/House/htm/2022-HIB-6546.htm



Except as otherwise provided in subsection (2), an individual shall not openly carry a rifle or shotgun in this state.


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## brewster (May 30, 2010)

These laws will continue to be pushed until the people on site like this relent and say, Well, we have to pass some law or they will. 

Then not long after that law is passed they'll be back to push for another stricter law and the sheeple will again say, Well we need to pass something or they will.

Rinse and repeat.


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

bowhunter426 said:


> C
> 
> Check out 6546
> 
> ...


It’s not law


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## Zofchak (Jan 10, 2003)

bobberbill said:


> Pepper Introduces Legislation Against Gun Violence
> 
> 
> LANSING, Mich., Dec. 1, 2022 — As the anniversary of the shooting tragedy at Oxford High School approached, state Rep. Jeffery Pepper (D-Dearborn) introduced two bills today aiding in the fight against gun violence. House Bill 6544 would ban the possession and sale of assault weapons generally...
> ...


 According to Mr. Pepper there have been "605 mass shootings in 2022 alone that killed over 18,000 innocent people in the United States". Either I've missed a lot of stories of 29+ people being killed on average at every mass shooting, or Mr. Pepper is a flat out liar. My bet's on Mr. Pepper being full of ****.


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

What did you expect with the mass shootings from all the hunters this year all over the country . Geesh


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

Zofchak said:


> According to Mr. Pepper there have been "605 mass shootings in 2022 alone that killed over 18,000 innocent people in the United States". Either I've missed a lot of stories of 29+ people being killed on average at every mass shooting, or Mr. Pepper is a flat out liar. My bet's on Mr. Pepper being full of ****.


What do you expect from a defense attorney


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

sparky18181 said:


> It’s not law


No sh it. Neither is the other house bill. He wants to make it illegal to open carry a long gun.


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## crispy78 (Mar 10, 2020)

It'll pass our joke of a legislature, they'll get the photo ops and headlines they want, then it'll be blocked by a judge in whatever county decides to sue first, and eventually overturned to no media fanfare. We'll keep our rifles, they'll probably get red flag laws. Just a guess.


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

bowhunter426 said:


> No sh it. Neither is the other house bill. He wants to make it illegal to open carry a long gun.


I get that so when we protest, we can protest both bills legally


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## 9mm Hi-Power (Jan 16, 2010)

*STATE CONSTITUTION (EXCERPT)
CONSTITUTION OF MICHIGAN OF 1963

§ 6 Bearing of arms.*

Sec. 6.
Every person has a right to keep and bear arms for the defense of himself and the state.

*History:* Const. 1963, Art. I, § 6, Eff. Jan. 1, 1964
*Former Constitution:* See Const. 1908, Art. II, § 5. 


9mm Hi-Power


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

9mm Hi-Power said:


> *STATE CONSTITUTION (EXCERPT)
> CONSTITUTION OF MICHIGAN OF 1963
> 
> § 6 Bearing of arms.*
> ...


 They don't care what the constitution says at either the state or federal level.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

Zofchak said:


> According to Mr. Pepper there have been "605 mass shootings in 2022 alone that killed over 18,000 innocent people in the United States". Either I've missed a lot of stories of 29+ people being killed on average at every mass shooting, or Mr. Pepper is a flat out liar. My bet's on Mr. Pepper being full of ****.


He’s a liar, and a dumbass ta boot!


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

cwk33041 said:


> These same people want to ban cops..You're doubled screwed lol
> 
> Anyways, I was surprised to see a thumhole stock on there. It's the most comfortable stock I have ever used.


Could you imagine having no law enforcement presence or your weapons? Think about how that would look. I’ll never give up my weapons!


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## TriggerDiscipline (Sep 25, 2017)

They aren’t taking my mail ninja rifles! From my cold dead hands! Dang it, last year they gave me the stimulus money to buy them all, and now they want to take them away! No refunds!


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## jr28schalm (Mar 16, 2006)

Hope it passes just for entertainment purposes around here. Mods be working 24 7


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## man vs. fish (Sep 6, 2010)

Won't phase me - I sold my collection of firearms before covid. They all got sick and I had to rehome them for my families safety.


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## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

man vs. fish said:


> Won't phase me - I sold my collection of firearms before covid. They all got sick and I had to rehome them for my families safety.


Yea me to, I am glad I kept my Flintlock!


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## shell waster (Nov 5, 2004)

Bought what I needed pre 2016 election, shows what I know....this whole thing sounds like a blow heart liberal trying to jump on some hot topic not because they care but because they want to be in front of the camera..


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## 7mmsendero (Dec 2, 2010)

A BAR will likely qualify, not good. BAR ShortTrac Desert Tan - Semi-Auto Rifle - Browning


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## miruss (Apr 18, 2003)

brewster said:


> These laws will continue to be pushed until the people on site like this relent and say, Well, we have to pass some law or they will.


They are on this site now!!!


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## 7mmsendero (Dec 2, 2010)

Here’s the thing, the term “assault rifle” or “assault weapon” was developed by anti-gun groups in the 1980’s. It’s not a true weapons classification. 

Here’s the thing I learned 30-35 years ago about this whole thing, if you were truly going to define these rifles the correct term is “defensive fire rifle” or “defensive weapon.” The true role of the military rifle they are modeled after is to support and protect the real “assault weapons” like heavy machine guns, light machine guns, squad automatic rifles, mortars, anti-armor weapons and so on.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

7mmsendero said:


> Here’s the thing, the term “assault rifle” or “assault weapon” was developed by anti-gun groups in the 1980’s. It’s not a true weapons classification.
> 
> Here’s the thing I learned 30-35 years ago about this whole thing, if you were truly going to define these rifles the correct term is “defensive fire rifle” or “defensive weapon.” The true role of the military rifle they are modeled after is to support and protect the real “assault weapons” like heavy machine guns, light machine guns, squad automatic rifles, mortars, anti-armor weapons and so on.


"The term assault rifle is generally attributed to *Adolf Hitler, who used the German word Sturmgewehr (which translates to "assault rifle") as the new name for the MP 43 (Maschinenpistole), subsequently known as the Sturmgewehr 44*."


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

7mmsendero said:


> A BAR will likely qualify, not good. BAR ShortTrac Desert Tan - Semi-Auto Rifle - Browning


All the semi auto loading magazine fed deer rifles will fall under that bill as it's currently written other than it being called an "Assault rifle" ban.


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## piketroller (Oct 24, 2016)

Lets get a ballot measure going to ban "assault politicians." I'm sure this joker fits that definition quite well.


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## Paint man (Apr 1, 2014)

a Ruger 10/22 with magazine is an assault weapon since it can be held by the mag. doubt it’s going to pass.


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

Paint man said:


> a Ruger 10/22 with magazine is an assault weapon since it can be held by the mag. doubt it’s going to pass.


A Ruger 10/22 is NOT an assault rifle unless your using this Bill as the actual definition of an assault rifle. I wish I could say it won't pass. Unfortunately with our current state leadership, it very well could.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

ALL semi-auto's will be next, including your shotguns.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> ALL semi-auto's will be next, including your shotguns.


Pretty soon we will only be able to use bows for deer hunting. Wait... who's behind this again?


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

sureshot006 said:


> Pretty soon we will only be able to use bows for deer hunting. Wait... who's behind this again?


I am TRYING hard to behave! LOL!


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> ALL semi-auto's will be next, including your shotguns.


It'll just be a matter of time before semi auto shotguns are the new assault weapon to ban. Eliminate the semi rifles and the next fastest firing weapon will be the preferred mass shooting weapon. There will always be a black market for ARs, AKs and Semi auto firearms.


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## rh2000 (4 mo ago)

U D said:


> Any rifle with a removable clip or detachable magazine?? Really??
> 
> Sent from my SM-A102U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


So.... my 70 year old bolt action Mossburg 20ga with a 3 round magazine is considered an assault weapon?  

Good luck taking it out of my warm live hands.


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## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

rh2000 said:


> So.... my 70 year old bolt action Mossburg 20ga with a 3 round magazine is considered an assault weapon?
> 
> Good luck taking it out of my warm live hands.


Yea, same with my 1944 Winchester M1 Garand...


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

How about this 117 year old assault rifle?


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## Sin_X (Mar 3, 2004)

Them there are fancy guns. My old Kentucky muzzleloader rifle has a partially shrouded barrel and will be illegal. 
This bill is for show.


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## Botiz (Oct 21, 2010)

Tom (mich) said:


> He says it's much ado about nothing, only a politician looking to score points with his liberal constituency. He's an odd guy though - like right now he's all riled up that he can't say monkeypox anymore.


Did he have a need to say it a lot?


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## LLSSt Clair (Apr 15, 2016)

RHRoss said:


> Could you imagine having no law enforcement presence or your weapons? Think about how that would look. I’ll never give up my weapons!


Ok no cops…. So we keep our assault weapons then?? That works for me.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

LLSSt Clair said:


> Ok no cops…. So we keep our assault weapons then?? That works for me.


If we don’t have law enforcement (cops) anymore, ya better hope ya have your weapons.


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## eye-sore (Jan 7, 2012)

Just because it has a detachable clip doesn’t make it illegal right out of the gate. Has to fit other criteria as well


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

eye-sore said:


> Just because it has a detachable clip doesn’t make it illegal right out of the gate. Has to fit other criteria as well


ALL of the criteria are wrong. It's ALL based on lies.


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## Badfishmi (Oct 28, 2012)

Is anyone else sick of negotiations and compromises with our rights?


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## Retiredontheriver (12 mo ago)

RHRoss said:


> John Wick Style, I like it. For me, they likely will never make entry before being engaged, I’m a light sleeper, and my M-4 is in the bed with me.


Only thing in bed with me is the wife. First they gotta get through all the questions and concerns ( nice for b#@% for waking her up) then I might get up to address their concerns.


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## BulldogOutlander (Oct 1, 2019)

looks like it's time to have a boating accident... again...


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## crispy78 (Mar 10, 2020)

RHRoss said:


> I ain’t providing them jack squat, they can’t have any of mine, they would get further jumping off a bridge


My boating accident was right by a bridge! Maybe they can look for all my stuff while they're down there.


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## BulldogOutlander (Oct 1, 2019)

crispy78 said:


> My boating accident was right by a bridge! Maybe they can look for all my stuff while they're down there.


i told ya we were too close to that rock


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## Dave J (Apr 15, 2014)

brewster said:


> These laws will continue to be pushed until the people on site like this relent and say, Well, we have to pass some law or they will.
> 
> Then not long after that law is passed they'll be back to push for another stricter law and the sheeple will again say, Well we need to pass something or they will.
> 
> Rinse and repeat.


Not sure if I am detecting sarcasm or despair. May people on this site contact their representative to express the illogic ( not sure if that is a word, but it works for me) of this and similar bills. Contacted mine today..


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## brewster (May 30, 2010)

Dave J said:


> Not sure if I am detecting sarcasm or despair. May people on this site contact their representative to express the illogic ( not sure if that is a word, but it works for me) of this and similar bills. Contacted mine today..



I've contacted mine also. No despair and definitely no sarcasm; there have been many posts over the years where people here keep saying how we (sportpersons) need to enact more gun laws before others do.


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## Dave J (Apr 15, 2014)

brewster said:


> I've contacted mine also. No despair and definitely no sarcasm; there have been many posts over the years where people here keep saying how we (sportpersons) need to enact more gun laws before others do.


Good man. The more laws argument is flawed as criminals do not obey laws. Onward.


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## BulldogOutlander (Oct 1, 2019)

the main issue at hand is you have people who know nothing, if anything other than "they fire bullets", making laws about guns they know nothing about! if you have ever watched their debates in the chambers against republicans who KNOW about guns, it's comically scary! They do their best to use trigger words, or phrases to scare people who refuse to do their own research and just listen to the jackwagons wanting these restrictions.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

BulldogOutlander said:


> the main issue at hand is you have people who know nothing, if anything other than "they fire bullets", making laws about guns they know nothing about! if you have ever watched their debates in the chambers against republicans who KNOW about guns, it's comically scary! They do their best to use trigger words, or phrases to scare people who refuse to do their own research and just listen to the jackwagons wanting these restrictions.


They are lying. They know they are wrong.


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## BulldogOutlander (Oct 1, 2019)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> They are lying. They know they are wrong.


and they wont admit it either


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

BulldogOutlander said:


> and they wont admit it either


Of course not, and millions of people, and much of the media, regurgitate the lies, ad nauseam, until they believe it as true.


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## Dr Crane (4 mo ago)

I can't even post on this without it being a political statement . 🤷‍♂️


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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

Dr Crane said:


> I can't even post on this without it being a political statement . 🤷‍♂️


Sure you can, there are firearm owners in both parties.


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## Dr Crane (4 mo ago)

Jerry Lamb said:


> Sure you can, there are firearm owners in both parties.


Nope.


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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

Dr Crane said:


> Nope.


So one political party has no firearm owners?
Just go ahead and post.


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## eye-sore (Jan 7, 2012)

What if I vote for both?


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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

eye-sore said:


> What if I vote for both?


That makes you Bi-litical.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

Jerry Lamb said:


> So one political party has no firearm owners?
> Just go ahead and post.


I imagine it’s awfully lopsided


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

RHRoss said:


> I imagine it’s awfully lopsided


Not around here.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

Nostromo said:


> Not around here.


Then why is it them on the other side don’t speak up when there people start spewing lies?


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

Nostromo said:


> Not around here.





RHRoss said:


> Then why is it them on the other side don’t speak up when there people start spewing lies?


I didn’t think there would be a legitimate answer, probably cuz there isn’t one.


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## 6thMichCav (Nov 8, 2007)

Reading the bill, it says you would have to register existing “assault weapons” and re-register them every five years. Where does this registration go, and who enforces it? Where does the money come from to implement registration and enforcement?

I don’t have anything that matches the description, but the description is ludicrously vague.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

Maybe we should enforce the laws we already have, start with that. The reason why they don’t enforce all of them,is cuz there is too many, we don’t need anymore F-cking Gun Laws!!!


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

RHRoss said:


> Maybe we should enforce the laws we already have, start with that. The reason why they don’t enforce all of them,is cuz there is too many, we don’t need anymore F-cking Gun Laws!!!


They don't want to enforce them.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

6thMichCav said:


> Reading the bill, it says you would have to register existing “assault weapons” and re-register them every five years. Where does this registration go, and who enforces it? Where does the money come from to implement registration and enforcement?
> 
> I don’t have anything that matches the description, but the description is ludicrously vague.


You know who’ll be paying for it. They can suck rocks as far as I’m concerned.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> They don't want to enforce them.


Not all of them, put your google to work, see what all we have on the books as far gum laws are and you’ll answer the question.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

RHRoss said:


> Not all of them


The bigger the "problem" the easier to push the lie.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> The bigger the "problem" the easier to push the lie.


What problem? And what lie are you speaking of?


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## eye-sore (Jan 7, 2012)

Jerry Lamb said:


> That makes you Bi-litical.



I wish more people thought about each candidate instead of blindly voting party lines. A lot of this could prob be avoided if we got mid of road people instead of each sides most extreme choices


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

RHRoss said:


> What problem? And what lie are you speaking of?


The more guns used in crimes the better. Now they are expunging gun criminals crimes to make it even easier.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)




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## -db- (Jan 12, 2016)

RHRoss said:


> Wow, That Sucks. No way I’m registering anything or pay a tax to keep my guns!


You will if it becomes law.


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

-db- said:


> You will if it becomes law.


I can't imagine how they would attempt to enforce it.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

One more delete and it's closing. Looking at you @amon


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## ninepntr (Aug 28, 2013)

FYI, I used to live in Illinois and have since moved to Indiana and vote in every election. I also voted in every Illinois election. I also have friends in Michigan and Love to hunt your beautiful state! Love the big woods of Michigan.

Everyone needs to vote and join a pro 2A organization!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

Nostromo said:


> I can't imagine how they would attempt to enforce it.


It'll be impossible to know who has these firearms. Unlike pistols, they don't need any special paper work to sell. No record of who buys them from a previous owner. This will be impossible to do. Say I sell one to another person. They give me a false name and address for a bill of sale. This WILL happen. Trust me.


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## Night Moves (Jan 28, 2021)

This must be fake news. We were told before the election that they don't want to ban our guns but rather just want sensible gun legislation to make us safer. They would never lie to us would they?


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## Alaby (Aug 22, 2013)

Ask @shotgun12,that feller that lives in Great Britain how they did it.



LGB said:


> It'll be impossible to know who has these firearms. Unlike pistols, they don't need any special paper work to sell. No record of who buys them from a previous owner. This will be impossible to do. Say I sell one to another person. They give me a false name and address for a bill of sale. This WILL happen. Trust me.


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

Alaby said:


> Ask @shotgun12,that feller that lives in Great Britain how they did it.


While I'm sure they'll try and regulate it, my scenario will ultimately kill the way they determine who actually has the weapons they hope to tax. Remember based on this bill, they aren't trying to take your assault rifles, only possibly add a tax and suspend future sales of them to civilians.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

LGB said:


> While I'm sure they'll try and regulate it, my scenario will ultimately kill the way they determine who actually has the weapons they hope to tax. Remember based on this bill, they aren't trying to take your assault rifles, only possibly add a tax and suspend future sales of them to civilians.


Ever here of the term "incrementalism"?


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> Ever here of the term "incrementalism"?


Nothing unethical about this behavior. Might be a question you should be asking the Michigan government tho.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

LGB said:


> Nothing unethical about this behavior. Might be a question you should be asking the Michigan government tho.


I cannot comment further.


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## Badfishmi (Oct 28, 2012)

Well I went and sold all my semi autos and high capacity mags. Made a good penny. Well it was good while it lasted lol


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> I cannot comment further.


I agree. Kinda surprised you went as far as you did.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

-db- said:


> You will if it becomes law.


Absolutely Not


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

RHRoss said:


> Absolutely Not


We will have to follow these laws a closely as many of our elected officials have followed our drug laws.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> We will have to follow these laws a closely as many of our elected officials have followed our drug laws.


I can dig it, but I will not comply with any new crazy gun laws, I have an arsenal and a azz load of ammo already, I don’t need to buy any more weapons, they can suck on a rock as far as I’m concerned with ANY NEW GUN LAWS!


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

RHRoss said:


> I can dig it, but I will not comply with any new crazy gun laws, I have an arsenal and a azz load of ammo already, I don’t need to buy any more weapons, they can suck on a rock as far as I’m concerned with ANY NEW GUN LAWS!


It intrigues me how they would collect a tax on guns previously purchased after the initial purchase tax. The government has zero fact on whether the initial purchaser still owns the rifle they filled out the ATF forms for when purchased new. I've bought firearms from personal sellers used and filled out no paper work of even a bill of sale. I just cannot see how this will be possible. It's going to be an interesting scenario if this bill passes.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

It most likely won’t pass, they don’t think straight, they just run off with ignorance when it comes to guns and have no idea what they’re talking about. If it does pass, I absolutely will not comply!!! Besides, we pay enough taxes.


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

RHRoss said:


> It most likely won’t pass, they don’t think straight, they just run off with ignorance when it comes to guns and have no idea what they’re talking about. If it does pass, I absolutely will not comply!!!


It has the best chance of passing than it ever has it years past. As a previous member posted the current leadership has the strongest administration leading the charge. I'm not as confident as you are but that aside, I'm very curious how it will happen given the lack of information on who owns what.


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

Terribly written for sure, and pointless. Just another attack on our rights. I really don't think something like this would survive the lawsuits if it were passed.


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## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

RHRoss said:


> so it needs more than things listed to qualify


They list the 2 main things (semiautomatic and detachable mag). It must have that. Then, it must have any only ONE of the other 4 or 5 things.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

Macs13 said:


> Right. I just meant in reference to my squirrel gun (as I was being a smartass thinking that it would qualify as an assault rifle) because it has a detachable magazine. The way that proposal is written, it needs the detachable mag PLUS one of the other things (none of which my .22 has).
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Guess I didn't read it that way. I thought I read detachable mag alone makes it an assault rifle provided it's a semi autoloader. I'll re-read the bill


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

A few more "thinking out louds". Since when does a thumb hole stock make a rifle "assaulty". And they left out firearms like ar15 pistols and tec 9s which the average joe would look at and come to the conclusion that those look "assaulty" as well. What about modifications? My 22 looks assaulty unless I change the stock to something less assaulty then it's ok? What happens when someone passes? No one else can possess the firearms prohibited by law. They can't just register them to someone else since the only thing allowed by law is the original owner can keep them provided they are registered. More things that make you go hmmm......


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

brookie1 said:


> A few more "thinking out louds". Since when does a thumb hole stock make a rifle "assaulty". And they left out firearms like ar15 pistols and tec 9s which the average joe would look at and come to the conclusion that those look "assaulty" as well. What about modifications? My 22 looks assaulty unless I change the stock to something less assaulty then it's ok? What happens when someone passes? No one else can possess the firearms prohibited by law. They can't just register them to someone else since the only thing allowed by law is the original owner can keep them provided they are registered. More things that make you go hmmm......


Not sure any of it matters. Remember the redefining today of everything is the trend. How does a magazine fed Remington 742 or Winchester 100 become assault rifles suddenly only because they are mag fed platform hunting rifles ? None of it makes sense.


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

brookie1 said:


> A few more "thinking out louds". Since when does a thumb hole stock make a rifle "assaulty". And they left out firearms like ar15 pistols and tec 9s which the average joe would look at and come to the conclusion that those look "assaulty" as well. What about modifications? My 22 looks assaulty unless I change the stock to something less assaulty then it's ok? What happens when someone passes? No one else can possess the firearms prohibited by law. They can't just register them to someone else since the only thing allowed by law is the original owner can keep them provided they are registered. More things that make you go hmmm......


You have to remember who comes up with these bills…. They’re idiots pandering for next election cycle voters.


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

dead short said:


> next election cycle voters.


Removed comment, possibly political...


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

dead short said:


> You have to remember who comes up with these bills…. They’re idiots pandering for next election cycle voters.


Amen Brotha


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

LGB said:


> Guess I didn't read it that way. I thought I read detachable mag alone makes it an assault rifle provided it's a semi autoloader. I'll re-read the bill


Think about it...

If a person has not a damn clue about firearms, would they really be able to write a logical, thought out bill?

Probably not.


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## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

sureshot006 said:


> Think about it...
> 
> If a person has not a damn clue about firearms, would they really be able to write a logical, thought out bill?
> 
> Probably not.


But yet they do...


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

sureshot006 said:


> Think about it...
> 
> If a person has not a damn clue about firearms, would they really be able to write a logical, thought out bill?
> 
> Probably not.


And that is exactly why they cant ever pass anything on Guns, that and too much pork in the bill


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

6Speed said:


> But yet they do...


Do what?


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## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

sureshot006 said:


> Do what?


Smells like bait, I'm not biting the worm. You know buddy! Have a happy weekend.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

6Speed said:


> Smells like bait, I'm not biting the worm. You know buddy! Have a happy weekend.


I just wanted clarification. Did you mean they generate bills or they generate logical, thought out bills. No bait.


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

sureshot006 said:


> Think about it...
> 
> If a person has not a damn clue about firearms, would they really be able to write a logical, thought out bill?
> 
> Probably not.


Nope. Any politician with the knowledge to write an appropriate bill would never do it as they would be against it in the first place. People that believe the inanimate object is the issue write this nonsense because they don't know any better.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

brookie1 said:


> Nope. Any politician with the knowledge to write an appropriate bill would never do it as they would be against it in the first place. People that believe the inanimate object is the issue write this nonsense because they don't know any better.


Inanimate isn't the issue and everyone knows that. Even them.


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

sureshot006 said:


> Think about it...
> 
> If a person has not a damn clue about firearms, would they really be able to write a logical, thought out bill?
> 
> Probably not.


I'm 100% aware of that fact. Without getting into the politics issue, just hearing our leader make ignorant comments on 9mm bullets blowing lungs out of people's bodies is about as clueless as anything I've heard. Another was that the AR 15 shoots bullets faster than any other rifle. You can't make this BS up. Total ignorance and shows how the people pushing these bills have zero clue about the weapons they are defining.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

LGB said:


> I'm 100% aware of that fact. Without getting into the politics issue, just hearing our leader make ignorant comments on 9mm bullets blowing lungs out of people's bodies is about as clueless as anything I've heard. Another was that the AR 15 shoots bullets faster than any other rifle. You can't make this BS up. Total ignorance and shows how the people pushing these bills have zero clue about the weapons they are defining.


It's no different than a misleading news headline to get buzz.


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## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

Generate bills based on political agenda and media driven emotional stuff instead of logic and reality. My squirrel rifle fits the new bill and it's not an assault rifle. I have other weapons for that and they're not gonna get them either...


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## brewster (May 30, 2010)

sureshot006 said:


> Think about it...
> 
> If a person has not a damn clue about firearms, would they really be able to write a logical, thought out bill?
> 
> Probably not.



Seems like they would have access to someone to write it.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

sureshot006 said:


> There is always a knife. Don't forget, they're just as deadly lmao


Many governments have knife control.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

sureshot006 said:


> I think with enough data, it can be proven. Just like anything else.


Maybe, maybe not.


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

sureshot006 said:


> There is always a knife. Don't forget, they're just as deadly lmao


Hope it's not the ONLY choice someday.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

LGB said:


> Hope it's not the ONLY choice someday.


Its just irritating to me when guys like us that want to be able to safely use firearms go talking about how if there were no guns they'll just use knives or whatever such logic. It makes us look... dumb.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

__





Selling, buying and carrying knives and weapons


The laws on selling, buying and carrying a knife or weapon depend on the type of knife or weapon, your age and your circumstances.




www.gov.uk


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

Optimistically speaking, I do not believe the government will disarm the country. They've been trying for as long as I can remember. Never made much progress mag capacities sure. Maybe ARs will face some restrictions but even when administrations come and go, these laws will change. Elections do have consequences and when our rights are really in jeopardy, things the pendulum swings back. I think having this conversation is cool but I'm not in the place where the sky is really falling.


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

sureshot006 said:


> Its just irritating to me when guys like us that want to be able to safely use firearms go talking about how if there were no guns they'll just use knives or whatever such logic. It makes us look... dumb.


Ya I feel pretty dumb thinking about it. Imagine how I feel putting it to print. Sounds extreme but I just believe anything can happen. I just believe it wont


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

The Weimar Republic introduced knife control in 1930


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> The Weimar Republic introduced knife control in 1930


I'm not saying that's what is needed. I'm saying the whole idea that they'll just use something else and it'll be just as bad is false. Yes there would still be homicides but the magnitude and ease is less.

The difficulty I think is logic vs emotion. It's frustrating as hell for the folks who will never harm anyone.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

LGB said:


> Absolutely which is why there is no specific data to this point.


They don’t want you to know that specific data, which I’m sure they have.


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## brewster (May 30, 2010)

sureshot006 said:


> Yeah I'm saying if you're unarmed they're more likely to take items and not your life. Now if you want to take the higher risk, that's a choice you have. For sure, lots of folks choose more risk when it comes to their health.



Except for the ones that aren't there to take items, do you ask at the door and then get a weapon?


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

brewster said:


> Except for the ones that aren't there to take items, do you ask at the door and then get a weapon?


Just telling you one of these scenarios leaves more alive. The other costs are up for opinion.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

sureshot006 said:


> I'm not saying that's what is needed. I'm saying the whole idea that they'll just use something else and it'll be just as bad is false. Yes there would still be homicides but the magnitude and ease is less.
> 
> The difficulty I think is logic vs emotion. It's frustrating as hell for the folks who will never harm anyone.


 Governments, through out history, have used control of weapons as a means of oppressing those they rule.
A government that does not trust it's people cannot be trusted.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> Governments, through out history, have used control of weapons as a means of oppressing those they rule.
> A government that does not trust it's people cannot be trusted.


Do you trust its people? I mean seriously. Can't even trust them to not show half of their ass when they have a damn belt on!


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

sureshot006 said:


> Do you trust its people? I mean seriously. Can't even trust them to not show half of their ass when they have a damn belt on!


The over whelming number of people can be trusted. The over whelming number who own firearms can be trusted.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> The over whelming number of people can be trusted. The over whelming number who own firearms can be trusted.


Yeah the overwhelming majority are not the reason for this thread. It's the thugs and young white kids shooting up schools because their parents suck.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

sureshot006 said:


> Yeah the overwhelming majority are not the reason for this thread. It's the thugs and young white kids shooting up schools because their parents suck.


Then deal with that problem. These laws will not solve that and they are not intended to solve it. It is aimed only at those who don't cause these problems. Those who wish to do harm have always, and will always, find a way to do so.


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

sureshot006 said:


> Just telling you one of these scenarios leaves more alive. The other costs are up for opinion.


 Probably gonna regret this but if you have any data to support this, please post it.
Again, I do not for one second believe that a good guy with a gun adds up to more good guys getting shot than bad guys. I'm sure there are numbers shot but it's the minority. I also believe good guys using guns in personal defense scenarios create more people getting shot overall. Maybe that overall number is what's used


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## brewster (May 30, 2010)

sureshot006 said:


> Just telling you one of these scenarios leaves more alive. The other costs are up for opinion.



Sadly, you don't get to pick your scenarios. 

I'd rather defend my family and have them alive than be unarmed and they are raped or beaten or dead.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

brewster said:


> Sadly, you don't get to pick your scenarios.
> 
> I'd rather defend my family and have them alive than be unarmed and they are raped or beaten or dead.


I agree. Some chance is better than no chance.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> Dungeons allow for mistake recovery. I can't say more.


Okay, Your more optimistic about the scumbags that do these kinds of things than I. I don’t believe in recovery for the types I mentioned, so better to gone with them! That way there is no risk of recidivism.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

RHRoss said:


> Okay, Your more optimistic about the scumbags that do these kinds of things than I. I don’t believe in recovery for the types I mentioned, so better to gone with them! That way there is no risk of recidivism.


You misunderstood. IF by some chance the wrong person got convicted they could be recovered from the dungeon.


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## Markosmania (Mar 13, 2015)

jr28schalm said:


> Hope it passes just for entertainment purposes around here. Mods be working 24 7


Wrong! our representatives should not even entertain this legislation.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> You misunderstood. IF by some chance the wrong person got convicted they could be recovered from the dungeon.


Oh, Okay, I did misunderstand. Though, I’ll have to think about whether or not that makes a difference to me.


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## jr28schalm (Mar 16, 2006)

Markosmania said:


> Wrong! our representatives should not even entertain this legislation.


It be even more interesting if it goes to a vote. Like abortion


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> My guess is that it happens far more often than is reported.


So does the opposite unfortunately


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

jr28schalm said:


> It be even more interesting if it goes to a vote. Like abortion


The opposing positions by the same people really confuses me.


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## brewster (May 30, 2010)

Lightfoot said:


> and fresh off the press....
> Georgia restaurant employee shoots and kills armed intruder after being pistol-whipped (msn.com)



Should he have waited after the pistol whipping to see if he was in danger of being killed? There are members here that think yes.


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## brewster (May 30, 2010)

sureshot006 said:


> The opposing positions by the same people really confuses me.



Please explain yourself more fully on this subject.


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## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

Markosmania said:


> It's time to stop watching and start writing your representatives and convey your thinking on this legislation.


Been doing that for years. have you?


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

brewster said:


> Please explain yourself more fully on this subject.


People that want killing to be okay also want to remove firearms to prevent killing.


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## brewster (May 30, 2010)

sureshot006 said:


> People that want killing to be okay also want to remove firearms to prevent killing.



Frankly, no it's not the same group. They want to feel good about who kills and who gets killed.

Without being political, who wants killers released from incarceration compared to people that want killers incarcerated?

It is not the same group of people.


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## Markosmania (Mar 13, 2015)

jr28schalm said:


> It be even more interesting if it goes to a vote. Like abortion


Our government from of government does not legislate from the bench unless it is against the constitution no?


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

brewster said:


> Frankly, no it's not the same group. They want to feel good about who kills and who gets killed.
> 
> Without being political, who wants killers released from incarceration compared to people that want killers incarcerated?
> 
> It is not the same group of people.


Ok


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## brewster (May 30, 2010)

sureshot006 said:


> Ok


I think you will continue to want laws that criminalize law abiding citizens, while pretending it will stop criminals.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

brewster said:


> I think you will continue to want laws that criminalize law abiding citizens, while pretending it will stop criminals.


Me? No, far from it. I'm just realistic.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

_The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing._


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## Markosmania (Mar 13, 2015)

6Speed said:


> Been doing that for years. have you?


Damn right!


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## Markosmania (Mar 13, 2015)

Markosmania said:


> Damn right!


Also, a life member of the NRA, are you?


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## Markosmania (Mar 13, 2015)

6Speed said:


> Been doing that for years. have you?


Yes, and also a life member of the NRA, are you?


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

LGB said:


> Doubtful that'll happen. It's Fed case remember. State circuit court cases, maybe depending on the state and the prosecutor. I've been working with the Fed Marshals moving Fed convicts to different Fed courts in Michigan and 90% of the fed judges are, let's say pathetic ( keeping politics out if it) when it comes to sentencing crimes.


If you were really keeping politics out of it, you'd not have said that. Nice play.


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

sureshot006 said:


> If you were really keeping politics out of it, you'd not have said that. Nice play.


I think I did keep them out if it. Pathetic really doesn't constitute "Politics" unless you are redefining on this forum.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

LGB said:


> Doubtful that'll happen. It's Fed case remember. State circuit court cases, maybe depending on the state and the prosecutor. I've been working with the Fed Marshals moving Fed convicts to different Fed courts in Michigan and 90% of the fed judges are, let's say pathetic ( keeping politics out if it) when it comes to sentencing crimes.


 You are most likely correct. The courts are a BIG part of the problem. Too often excusing crime and putting the criminal back on the street.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

LGB said:


> I think I did keep them out if it. Pathetic really doesn't constitute "Politics" unless you are redefining on this forum.


I'm not referring to the word pathetic.

It's like "I'm not saying it was aliens, but it was aliens"

Not worried about it. Just think it's kinda funny.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

It COULD be aliens. At least that would not be as bad as .....


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## LGB (9 mo ago)

sureshot006 said:


> I'm not referring to the word pathetic.
> 
> It's like "I'm not saying it was aliens, but it was aliens"
> 
> Not worried about it. Just think it's kinda funny.


It's funny because it's darn near impossible to not inject even the slightest political theme in a thread if the thread is not a hunting/fishing/outdoor related thread. Sound off threads all wind up having some politicalness no matter how much you try and keep them out of it. Ya, I know, politicalness isn't a word but it's a thing that happens.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

LGB said:


> It's funny because it's darn near impossible to not inject even the slightest political theme in a thread if the thread is not a hunting/fishing/outdoor related thread. Sound off threads all wind up having some politicalness no matter how much you try and keep them out of it.


Exactly why when we see these flurries of certain topics we roll our eyes.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

Chessieman said:


> Man accused of purchasing gun that killed DPD Officer Loren Courts to appear for plea hearing
> 
> 
> According to the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan, a plea hearing and final pretrial conference will be held Monday, December 12 for Sheldon Thomas.
> ...


Dude needs to face the same charges as the trigger man


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

RHRoss said:


> Dude needs to face the same charges as the trigger man


As does everyone who steals a gun and then sells it on the street. The thief should be held responsible for every crime that gun is used in to commit a crime. NO chance of expungement until the stolen firearm is recovered.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

SEMichiiganConservation said:


> As does everyone who steals a gun and then sells it on the street. The thief should be held responsible for every crime that gun is used in to commit a crime. NO chance of expungement until the stolen firearm is recovered.


I can dig it


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

Not only are they trying to disarm us individually, they are currently disarming us as a whole, have given away 37% of our stockpiles and not replenishing, munitions that take 2 years to build, as of current we are 13 years behind and counting.


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## SEMichiiganConservation (7 mo ago)

RHRoss said:


> Not only are they trying to disarm us individually, they are currently disarming us as a whole, have given away 37% of our stockpiles and not replenishing, munitions that take 2 years to build, as of current we are 13 years behind and counting.


When you hire fools to run the military this is what happens.


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## Fordman7795 (Sep 9, 2007)

Markosmania said:


> My Winchester 100 (detachable clip) is considered an assault weapon??


it is according to mr pepper


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

Markosmania said:


> My Winchester 100 (detachable clip) is considered an assault weapon??


It has to meet at least 2 of the criteria, detachable magazines alone won’t meet it.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

sureshot006 said:


> Its just irritating to me when guys like us that want to be able to safely use firearms go talking about how if there were no guns they'll just use knives or whatever such logic. It makes us look... dumb.


Dumb is not having an option to neutralize a treat and to roll over and take it.


A man escapes from prison where he has been for 15 years. He breaks into a house to look for money and guns and finds a young couple in bed.
He orders the guy out of bed and ties him to a chair, while tying the girl to the bed he gets on top of her, kisses her neck, then gets up and goes into the bathroom.
While he's in there, the husband tells his wife: "Listen, this guy's an escaped convict, look at his clothes! He probably spent lots of time in jail and hasn't seen a woman in years. I saw how he kissed your neck." If he wants s*x, don't resist, don't complain, do whatever he tells you. Satisfy him no matter how much he nauseates you. This guy is probably very dangerous. If he gets angry, he'll k*ll us. Be strong, honey. I love you."
To which his wife responds: "He wasn't kissing my neck. He was whispering in my ear. He told me he was gay, thought you were cute, and asked me if we had any vaseline. I told him it was in the bathroom. Be strong honey. I love you too!!"


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

FREEPOP said:


> Dumb is not having an option to neutralize a treat and to roll over and take it.
> 
> 
> A man escapes from prison where he has been for 15 years. He breaks into a house to look for money and guns and finds a young couple in bed.
> ...


If your not careful one may think that’s your fantasy, lol


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

RHRoss said:


> If your not careful one may think that’s your fantasy, lol


----------

