# Wolf Hunt Update



## Liver and Onions

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12145_12205-32569--,00.html

I didn't realize that this was going to be so difficult. It seemed in recent years that a number of UP hunters were saying that seeing a wolf during deer hunting wasn't that unusual.

L & O


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## Luv2hunteup

You have to remember there are only 3 small areas to hunt them. It not like it is open peninsula wide.


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## Liver and Onions

Thanks Luv2. I took a look but didn't see what % of the UP was open for wolf hunting, anyone know ? 

L & O


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## DFJISH

It's not unexpected to me. There was no mention of the circumstances under which the 10 were shot, but I'd bet it was incidental to deer hunting. Perhaps a few of the 1200 licensees tried bait stations, but even in Canada where that tactic is common the success rate is might low. After the news of wolves killing so many dogs I doubt any hound hunters would risk setting their dogs on wolves. Is using dogs even legal? They should have kept TRAPPING as a legal method to take wolves, but the DNR took the path of least resistance on that issue.(Surprise-Surprise) IMO it's highly unlikely that the quota will be reached by the end of the season.


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## WAUB-MUKWA

3 small areas and an animal that will move all day and all night if it has to. It can be in one County in the morning and another the next day. Out of the 1,200 people that drew a tag maybe only 1/2 of them hunted the first weekend and headed back home? I think us Yoopers bought 250 tags with the most coming from Chippewa, Houghton and Gogebic County.

Wolves aren't deer and will not stand there looking at you so you can take the extra 30 seconds to decide if you want to shoot it. You blink and they'll be gone never to return in that spot for another two weeks.

Trapping would of been the way to go but how many of those are proficient in it too like they thought hunting them would be for two days? I'll be happy when the bush quiets down and they're all home after turkey day then the tags will get filled. They should of started the hunt after deer season. lets hope if there is a hunt next year it does start after, if we have a hunt at all next year from sportsmen not doing anything to have the hunt.


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## WAUB-MUKWA

Liver and Onions said:


> Thanks Luv2. I took a look but didn't see what % of the UP was open for wolf hunting, anyone know ?
> 
> L & O


http://www.michigan.gov/images/dnr/Wolf_management_units_430181_7.JPG


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## DIYsportsman

Liver and Onions said:


> I didn't realize that this was going to be so difficult.


Same story happens in all the states that try to manage wolves, they constrict us hunters with limited seasons, zones, harvest methods, and small quotas, then they charge us $100-500, and expect us to have no issues...

There is a huge difference between hunting predators and prey animals, just look at the success of coyote hunters; sometimes you have to sit 20 or more times just to see a coyote, and they are plentiful...

If we were smart (which were are not) we would liberalize our second season (if we get one) like idaho did, their first season was abysmal until they lifted some restrictions... 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## rotty

just got back from my wolf hunt, the low success rate is no surprise to me either as an avid coyote hunter I know how hard canines are to hunt, that and most folks do not know how to hunt them effectively, on top of limited areas, and according to some the heaviest populated areas aren't even the one that are open.
I was up there from tuesday until today, hunted the majority of area C, mornings and evenings and tried locating after dark. we seen 0 tracks, only one evidence of scat and it was old, no vocal responses (from wolves, the coyotes on the other hand responded twice to wolf howls).
I will be surprised if they meet the quota.
May go try one of the other areas later in the season.


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## bigbuck

Wisconsin had a wolf hunt last year and took 117 thier quote was 116. This year thier quota is 251 I know they have taken atleast 85 so far not sure how old that figure is they may have taken more now. They gave out less than 1200 tags. One thing different is they do allow trapping.


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## WAUB-MUKWA

rotty said:


> just got back from my wolf hunt, the low success rate is no surprise to me either as an avid coyote hunter I know how hard canines are to hunt, that and most folks do not know how to hunt them effectively, on top of limited areas, and according to some the heaviest populated areas aren't even the one that are open.
> I was up there from tuesday until today, hunted the majority of area C, mornings and evenings and tried locating after dark. we seen 0 tracks, only one evidence of scat and it was old, no vocal responses (from wolves, the coyotes on the other hand responded twice to wolf howls).
> I will be surprised if they meet the quota.
> May go try one of the other areas later in the season.


+1


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## rotty

bigbuck said:


> Wisconsin had a wolf hunt last year and took 117 thier quote was 116. This year thier quota is 251 I know they have taken atleast 85 so far not sure how old that figure is they may have taken more now. They gave out less than 1200 tags. One thing different is they do allow trapping.


big difference do they allow night hunting?


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## WAUB-MUKWA

bigbuck said:


> Wisconsin had a wolf hunt last year and took 117 thier quote was 116. This year thier quota is 251 I know they have taken atleast 85 so far not sure how old that figure is they may have taken more now. They gave out less than 1200 tags. One thing different is they do allow trapping.


I think both Minnesota and Wisconsin's numbers were over 85% were trapped out of all the wolves. Only something like 10% were shot hunting. Trapping is more effective IMO because of the lures and scents used.


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## Liver and Onions

WAUB-MUKWA said:


> http://www.michigan.gov/images/dnr/Wolf_management_units_430181_7.JPG


I had not seen that, thanks.


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## Liver and Onions

11 total now.

L & O


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## MERGANZER

11 is the number reported so far. Not the number killed. Remember people effected by these large predators want them controlled and 43 taken out of the entire UP is not controlling them, at all. Number killed and reported equals 11, number shot at shot gut shot not recovered or reported equals?????

Ganzer


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## Robert Holmes

Good point. I am sure that some were killed outside of the zones too. Yoopers have shown a great deal of tolerance over the last 20+ years. I do not think that this will last if it goes to a vote as all of the promises that the DNR has made over the years will be down the drain. If it goes to a vote the DNR will no longer have any say in the matter. The final result will wind up being why should a DNR officer spend time and energy chasing a wolf poacher? I think that wolf management would go back to the feds.


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## Midalake

bigbuck said:


> Wisconsin had a wolf hunt last year and took 117 thier quote was 116. This year thier quota is 251 I know they have taken atleast 85 so far not sure how old that figure is they may have taken more now. They gave out less than 1200 tags. One thing different is they do allow trapping.


Wisconsin is at 213 with only one zone open!!!!

Follow Here: http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/wolf.html

In fact all zones but the 1 were closed before the start of the gun season on Saturday.

And since the gun season opened they had none [0] more add to the unit that was open.

Dave


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## bowhunter42

Again the question arises...
Does anyone even have anyone even care/ respect the DNR?
I've been trying to see the good that they do, yet there mismanagement, backstabbing, and utter lack of respect for the sportsmen that pay there salaries.
There's none left for me.
I feel they have sided with the anti hunters.
All they are is a joke. They couldn't manage a wet fart!
They got lucky that turkeys flourished...
And they rode the coattails of the nwtf on that...
sent from the....


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## GuppyII

I think a lot of people bought tags just to say they got one! The only wolf hunt in Michigan! I know of four guys in my plant alone that have tags, one Guy has never hunted in the yoop, two have never predator hunted before and one just thought it'd be cool to have a tag in case I can go up there and see one. Dam shame


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## Musket

And the answer is yes. I have a great deal of respect, consideration and admiration for the NRC, DNR and the job they do.


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## MERGANZER

Musket said:


> And the answer is yes. I have a great deal of respect, consideration and admiration for the NRC, DNR and the job they do.


 
I agree! Hating the DNR is like hating a police officer. They dont make the laws they simply have the job opf enforcing them. That they do a good job of with as limited as they are. I dont know a lot of C.O.'s probably cause there isnt alot of them but I do know one fairly well. Officer Mike Wells in newaygo county. And yes I have nothing but the utmost respect for that man and the job he does for us up there.

Ganzer


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## Liver and Onions

bowhunter42 said:


> Again the question arises...
> Does anyone even have anyone even care/ respect the DNR?
> I've been trying to see the good that they do, yet there mismanagement, backstabbing, and utter lack of respect for the sportsmen that pay there salaries.
> There's none left for me.
> I feel they have sided with the anti hunters.
> All they are is a joke. They couldn't manage a wet fart!
> They got lucky that turkeys flourished...
> And they rode the coattails of the nwtf on that...
> sent from the....



Here again we have a person who can't figure out how to kill a deer or catch a fish so the DNR must be to blame.
No doubt all of your former teachers were to blame because you don't know the difference between the homophones "there" & "their".

L & O


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## triplelunger

bowhunter42 said:


> Again the question arises...
> Does anyone even have anyone even care/ respect the DNR?
> I've been trying to see the good that they do, yet there mismanagement, backstabbing, and utter lack of respect for the sportsmen that pay there salaries.
> There's none left for me.
> I feel they have sided with the anti hunters.
> All they are is a joke. They couldn't manage a wet fart!
> They got lucky that turkeys flourished...
> And they rode the coattails of the nwtf on that...
> sent from the....


Name one person that can successfully manage a wet fart. It's a no win situation. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Robert Holmes

For years the DNR has take millions of dollars of hunting/fishing license money and put it into the non game wildlife fund. Now the huggers have more of a voice in what the DNR does than the hunters, fishermen, and trappers that pay their wages. I realize that the DNR is a public service agency but it should turn a cold shoulder to the huggers. They don't pay for anything yet they want everything. The DNR really needs to step up to the plate and give us outdoorsmen and women a little respect if they want some in return. I am not saying that they are doing a bad job just not a great job.


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## bigbuck

Any idea why Michigan does not allow trapping seems way more effective if they want to control numbers.


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## triplelunger

Maybe if we as hunters, and hopefully conservationists, were not calling for the extermination of a native predatory species, we could be taken more seriously. 
we have to stop the "yoopers will take care of it on their own", and "my wolf tag costs a buck o five" crap. It makes us sound like we don't know proper ecology and conservation from a wet fart.


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## Robert Holmes

GuppyII said:


> I think a lot of people bought tags just to say they got one! The only wolf hunt in Michigan! I know of four guys in my plant alone that have tags, one Guy has never hunted in the yoop, two have never predator hunted before and one just thought it'd be cool to have a tag in case I can go up there and see one. Dam shame


 This wolf hunt is practice 250 of the tags went to Yoopers who can and will hunt for them. If the quota is not met the DNR will kill off any problem wolves. If the huggers get their way the wolf management will be taken away from the DNR. When this happens who will take out the problem wolves and how long will it take? Once again the DNR and USFWS lied to us.


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## Musket

With a quota set at 43 wolves in 3 different zones, trapping would have an over harvest.


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## Musket

And exactly what lie would that be Robert.


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## bowhunter42

LO did you eat lead paint:screwy:

sent from the....


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## Spartan88

triplelunger said:


> Name one person that can successfully manage a wet fart. It's a no win situation.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Isnt the proper term for that 'shart' ?


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## Robert Holmes

triplelunger said:


> Maybe if we as hunters, and hopefully conservationists, were not calling for the extermination of a native predatory species, we could be taken more seriously.
> we have to stop the "yoopers will take care of it on their own", and "my wolf tag costs a buck o five" crap. It makes us sound like we don't know proper ecology and conservation from a wet fart.


The "Great Lakes Wolf" or Grey Wolf never existed in Michigan which would make it an invasive species. These wolves migrated from Canada and were transplanted with the help of the USFWS. At one time a smaller eastern timber wolf was native to Michigan. The issue is that the DNR has a managed hunt which is a step in the right direction. Now a bunch of uneducated wolf huggers from the LP who know nothing want to take the hunt away from us. What do you expect "yoopers" to do? Living in the LP you would have a different attitude if you had 120 pound dogs in your backyard that kill your wildlife, pets, and livestock just for the thrill of it.


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## triplelunger

Spartan88 said:


> Isnt the proper term for that 'shart' ?


Yes. I would also accept "Louisiana sizzler"


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## triplelunger

Robert Holmes said:


> The "Great Lakes Wolf" or Grey Wolf never existed in Michigan which would make it an invasive species. These wolves migrated from Canada and were transplanted with the help of the USFWS. At one time a smaller eastern timber wolf was native to Michigan. The issue is that the DNR has a managed hunt which is a step in the right direction. Now a bunch of uneducated wolf huggers from the LP who know nothing want to take the hunt away from us. What do you expect "yoopers" to do? Living in the LP you would have a different attitude if you had 120 pound dogs in your backyard that kill your wildlife, pets, and livestock just for the thrill of it.


There will have to be a compromise between the "uneducated wolf huggers" and the "uneducated wolf haters".


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## Spartan88

Good points tripplelunger, not all LP folks hug the wolves. I'll remember the 'sizzler' too, never heard of that one...


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## Robert Holmes

Musket said:


> And exactly what lie would that be Robert.


 Which one like when the wolf population reached 250 animals that their would be a hunt!!!!! When the wolf population hits 500 there will be a hunt. When the wolf population hits 600 there will be a hunt!!!! When the wolf population hits 700 there will be a hunt!!!! When the wolf population hits 750 there will be a hunt!!!!! Over a period of 20 years I have heard this and more from DNR biologists. There was an extensive period of time that they were not allowed to mention wolf and hunt on the same day. There was also a period of denial concerning thrill kills. And there was a period of time that they could not mention livestock and dog killing by wolves.


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## Robert Holmes

triplelunger said:


> There will have to be a compromise between the "uneducated wolf huggers" and the "uneducated wolf haters".


 I do have a college degree in wildlife management being that the Grey Wolf is an invasive species why would I want them around. They are nothing more than a lamprey that is sucking the life blood out of the ecosystem in the UP. Would you want 1000 wild pigs running around in the LP? Maybe you can tell me a few good things that the Grey Wolf has done for the UP.


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## Musket

Robert,
Would you please send the link for the info you have provided. Not that you are story telling or anything but the link would validate it.


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## Swamp commander

Hello, 
I live south of the bridge, near alpena.
I am not a uneducated wolf hugger. And
I am not a wolf hater. 
I have a wolf tag, and have hunted nearly
Every day of the season. And will hunt till
The last day if I have to.
Have talked to a lot of farmers in the up, 
Seems they all have wolf trouble. Even 
Though most will not allow people to hunt
On there land.
We in the north eastern LP, have wolfs 
Here, not in the numbers you in the UP have,
But there numbers grow here every year,so
It's just a matter of time till it's our problem
To. At least one farmer in my area has lost a
Calf to a pair of wolves.
I am all for the hunt, even though I live in
The LP,


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## triplelunger

Robert Holmes said:


> I do have a college degree in wildlife management being that the Grey Wolf is an invasive species why would I want them around. They are nothing more than a lamprey that is sucking the life blood out of the ecosystem in the UP. Would you want 1000 wild pigs running around in the LP? Maybe you can tell me a few good things that the Grey Wolf has done for the UP.


off topic, but are you saying that the UP has not been naturally populated with wolves? How can a native population migrating from Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Canada be considered an invasive population? 
I fully support a hunt, but we have to get our act together and approach the issue intelligently.
Name me a few good things black flies have done for the U.P.? Should we kill them all, too:lol:


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## Robert Holmes

I carry a cell phone with RAP on speed dial so go ahead put on lots of orange and shoot up the woods. See how fast I turn you in for careless use of a firearm or hunter harassment.


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## WAUB-MUKWA

These PeTA, KMWP and HSUS losers would have to find me first. And then if they ever did I doubt they would ever find their way back out because I would lead them on an walk so deep away from everything.


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## Luv2hunteup

Too bad Xylitol doesn't work on PETA members too.


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## Disturbed Sledneck

Midalake said:


> ....
> 
> If there would have been zones in Iron County, and North Dickinson the count would be much different!!!
> 
> Dave


I agree. 

I would have very much liked to have been able to stay at my own place and hunt the areas I'm familiar with in southern Marquette and northern Dickinson counties. I'd like to think I would have been successful, and helped fill their quota.


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## Falk

Does anyone know why trappers were not allowed in this season? I read Minnesota and Wisconsin included trappers and the success rate is much higher.


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## DFJISH

Robert Holmes said:


> I carry a cell phone with RAP on speed dial so go ahead put on lots of orange and shoot up the woods. See how fast I turn you in for careless use of a firearm or hunter harassment.


Really? Unless there have been some major changes recently, that RAP line is a bad joke. You'll have time to grow a Duck Dynasty length beard before a CO responds to your call. Been there done that more than once. Yes, they are under-staffed. I suppose that's also why the deer check stations were closed the last 2 days of firearm deer season and the signs said "Call for an appointment."


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## Waif

Falk said:


> Does anyone know why trappers were not allowed in this season? I read Minnesota and Wisconsin included trappers and the success rate is much higher.


Trapping by knowledgeable trappers is to successful I suspect is the reason.


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## Rooster Cogburn

The latest information I found on Wisconsin's 2013 wolf season is about 80% of wolves registered were taken by trappers. Wisconsin has proven they can effectively manage wolves without overharvest. And then there's Michigan's attempt that accomplished nothing because trappers were not allowed to participate....all we are getting out of it is another ballot initiatve aimed at taking away sound science management. 

Speaking of sound science management.....I'm wondering when we're going to get to see it.


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## Falk

Waif said:


> Trapping by knowledgeable trappers is to successful I suspect is the reason.


That is what I was thinking also.


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## Rooster Cogburn

Falk, you asked why trappers were excluded. I was told trappers were originally included in the plan...and then in the 11th hour they were excluded. Obviously, it was not a decision based on sound science.


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## reelbusy2

Iron co needs to be on the hit list. I had one inside 40 yds the last week of Sept.bird hunting & another one inside 30 yds 11/27 rifle season plus to many tracks in to many different locations. If they open Iron I'll try my best to get one.I did get one of the little ones.


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## sourdough44

I still say the whole U.P. should of been opened for wolf hunting. They could still close the season when the limit was reached. With the distance they range, smaller zones are almost meaningless.


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## Robert Holmes

DFJISH said:


> Really? Unless there have been some major changes recently, that RAP line is a bad joke. You'll have time to grow a Duck Dynasty length beard before a CO responds to your call. Been there done that more than once. Yes, they are under-staffed. I suppose that's also why the deer check stations were closed the last 2 days of firearm deer season and the signs said "Call for an appointment."


 I also have the phone number of the local CO and if all else fails there is 911 which will send an officer to respond.


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## KGDPD

Midalake said:


> YES very right! You can bet that some wolves are living on the borders as well and might not be on the right side of the border...yet.....
> 
> The DNR does not consider YOU the hunter OR property owner as a person that might be having a conflict!!!
> 
> No Deer....Too bad
> 
> If there would have been zones in Iron County, and North Dickinson the count would be much different!!!
> 
> Dave


You can include Menominee county as well


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## 2PawsRiver

I wonder if they are "Roll Over" Wolves.....what ever is not taken this time is added to the next natch of tags.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Luv2hunteup

The wolf kill is falling off the one a day pace. I hope they extend the season if the tags are not filled

20 tags filled


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## Liver and Onions

Luv2hunteup said:


> The wolf kill is falling off the one a day pace. I hope they extend the season if the tags are not filled
> 
> 20 tags filled


It doesn't look like that the guys with guns are going to get it done. Maybe it's time to reconsider the trapping option.

L & O


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## WAUB-MUKWA

Liver and Onions said:


> It doesn't look like that the guys with guns are going to get it done. Maybe it's time to reconsider the trapping option.
> 
> L & O


You have to figure _Who_ is hunting. You have 1,200 tags and most bought one and could only hunt for a few days along with their normal first week deer camp scheduled time off. Most were downstate and didn't know where to go and got skunked big time. Some were bought by the animal rights morons thinking they would stop the hunt. Hard to say exactly who is hunting but I'd say its only a handful of people and only a dozen or so in each zone right now. I remember the locals bought them in the hunt zones open and that was 40 tags each for only 3 of the Counties and the other U.P. Counties close to the zones only had 15 tags bought each. I would figure maybe 200-300 never even hunted. I know one non-res didn't hunt, losing the $500. I'm hunting just about everyday and I'm seeing tracks and lots of wolf tails, heading the other way.


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## rotty

my friend and i are heading up for one more shot at them in a couple weeks...new strategy, hope it pays off.


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## DFJISH

DFJISH said:


> It's not unexpected to me. There was no mention of the circumstances under which the 10 were shot, but I'd bet it was incidental to deer hunting. Perhaps a few of the 1200 licensees tried bait stations, but even in Canada where that tactic is common the success rate is might low. After the news of wolves killing so many dogs I doubt any hound hunters would risk setting their dogs on wolves. Is using dogs even legal? They should have kept TRAPPING as a legal method to take wolves, but the DNR took the path of least resistance on that issue.(Surprise-Surprise) IMO it's highly unlikely that the quota will be reached by the end of the season.


X2! :lol:


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## DFJISH

The extent to which opinions are being presented as facts on this thread is staggering.


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## WAUB-MUKWA

Robert Holmes said:


> To protect those 6 figure DNR wolf management jobs there has to be wolves. When they are caught in coyote traps which is way more often than you would think they get shots and collars. None of them ever die of natural causes they cannot allow that to happen.


They can't vaccinate anymore as of 2005, but yes they once did for 10 years straight. Rabies, Parvo, Distemper. Everything.


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## ROSCORack

Does anyone know the number of wolves shot as of today?


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## Liver and Onions

Click on the link in post #1 for the daily update.

L & O


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## Luv2hunteup

20 wolves since the 7th.


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## MTU-BUCK

Heading back up to Unit B on Friday for round two. The first week I spent up there during the firearm opener proved to be more of a challenge than I anticipated. This time around though I like to believe I'm a little more educated in the tactics of these cunning critters. Time, patience, and determination.

Wolf hunting or extended family Christmas parties? Truck is packed and I'm gone! If the stars align and bag one you can be sure there will be pictures posted as fast as I can take them.


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## MERGANZER

To argue this is pointless. As with the dove season enjoy it for the one year it is here. Prop G was never used to protect the dove season and I doubt they will stand up to the idiot wolf huggers so bag that wolf this year and have a great time causde they will take this away as quick as they did the doves.

Ganzer


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## kingfisher 11

MTU-BUCK said:


> Heading back up to Unit B on Friday for round two. The first week I spent up there during the firearm opener proved to be more of a challenge than I anticipated. This time around though I like to believe I'm a little more educated in the tactics of these cunning critters. Time, patience, and determination.
> 
> Wolf hunting or extended family Christmas parties? Truck is packed and I'm gone! If the stars align and bag one you can be sure there will be pictures posted as fast as I can take them.


Good luck


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## WAUB-MUKWA

MTU-BUCK said:


> Heading back up to Unit B on Friday for round two. The first week I spent up there during the firearm opener proved to be more of a challenge than I anticipated. This time around though I like to believe I'm a little more educated in the tactics of these cunning critters. Time, patience, and determination.
> 
> Wolf hunting or extended family Christmas parties? Truck is packed and I'm gone! If the stars align and bag one you can be sure there will be pictures posted as fast as I can take them.


Snow is 2-3 feet deep and no crust at the surface but 6-8 inches down. I watched two coyotes having trouble crossing a field this morning. Took one at 400 yards. He couldn't run away at all so I got him in the pooper. Had all the time in the world to get him. 

I'm seeing the wolves are sticking to forestry roads and skidder trails now. If you have a sled you got it made. If not expect to snowshoe all over where ever you go. Good luck! There are about 20 of us in A and B hunting everyday.


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## MTU-BUCK

WAUB-MUKWA said:


> Snow is 2-3 feet deep and no crust at the surface but 6-8 inches down. I watched two coyotes having trouble crossing a field this morning. Took one at 400 yards. He couldn't run away at all so I got him in the pooper. Had all the time in the world to get him.
> 
> I'm seeing the wolves are sticking to forestry roads and skidder trails now. If you have a sled you got it made. If not expect to snowshoe all over where ever you go. Good luck! There are about 20 of us in A and B hunting everyday.


Thank you for the info! I was expecting at least a couple feet of snow and unfortunately I don't have a sled to pound through the trails. I'll be hoofing it with my snowshoes all day everyday. That may sound dreadful to some but I'm looking forward to it. Hopefully the two packs I was on last time haven't moved out of the areas I've become familiar with. 

Also you deserve a marksmanship award for center punching a coyotes brown eye at 400 yrds.


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## WAUB-MUKWA

MTU-BUCK said:


> Thank you for the info! I was expecting at least a couple feet of snow and unfortunately I don't have a sled to pound through the trails. I'll be hoofing it with my snowshoes all day everyday. That may sound dreadful to some but I'm looking forward to it. Hopefully the two packs I was on last time haven't moved out of the areas I've become familiar with.
> 
> Also you deserve a marksmanship award for center punching a coyotes brown eye at 400 yrds.


That's what I'm doing too, a lot of walking! Good luck. Try a little howl to see if you can locate them the night before like setting up the night before to turkey hunt. Thanks on the shot. Its my second longest shot. A little left of the pooper but enough to go in and stop it for good. Bushiest coyote I've ever seen. Its tail looked like a wolf's.


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## Luv2hunteup

Heading back to B in the morning. I'll be staying near Sidnaw. The sled and shoes are loaded up. I have to be home Xmas Eve but will be back at camp on the 26th.


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## Liver and Onions

WAUB-MUKWA said:


> .............
> There are about 20 of us in A and B hunting everyday.


About how many times have you been out wolf hunting ? Are most of the hunts a deer/wolf combo hunt for you ?

L & O


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## WAUB-MUKWA

Liver and Onions said:


> About how many times have you been out wolf hunting ? Are most of the hunts a deer/wolf combo hunt for you ?
> 
> L & O


I missed going this morning but I have been out every day I could since November 15th. I bought a buck tag for rifle but didn't see any bucks. I've been strictly wolfing. I have seen 4 so far and many tracks that could of been hours old. They never presented a shot. The snow isn't deep enough for the deer to yard up so the wolves are still making their rounds following their food. I will hunt every morning until the 31st now. I am not calling, I only howl to locate then hunt the area. I only ran into a couple guys from downstate the first two weeks then before turkey day seems they all left.


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## WAUB-MUKWA

Luv2hunteup said:


> Heading back to B in the morning. I'll be staying near Sidnaw. The sled and shoes are loaded up. I have to be home Xmas Eve but will be back at camp on the 26th.


If you have time take a drive South down FFH 16 from Kenton. Last time I was thru there a lot of tracks crossing from the 3610 road. I used to sled that whole area from Paint lake North to M28, both sides of FFh16.


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## Luv2hunteup

Thanks J.

The camp I will be staying at is not far from there. It's on Lake Thirteen road. Evenings will be spent warming up in Kenton.We saw wolves in that area in early October. My buddy doesn't have a tag but has been out riding his sled between Sidnaw and Baraga scouting for me.


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## S.E.M.O.R.E.

WAUB-MUKWA said:


> If you have time take a drive South down FFH 16 from Kenton. Last time I was thru there a lot of tracks crossing from the 3610 road. I used to sled that whole area from Paint lake North to M28, both sides of FFh16.



WOW....small world....the first Wolf I ever saw, 1991 was right there, actually just north a mile or two if I recall correctly....later found out it was from the first release....was running right at Me as I was idling down that road in my truck, seen it through the trees, then from 30 feet we were face to face as I was hitting the brakes, the trees coming between us, I swear it turned inside out, seen it for two jumps and it was GONE from the way it came...looked like a huge malamute...had one of those "did I just see what I think I saw" moments...beautiful huge animal...


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## Liver and Onions

S.E.M.O.R.E. said:


> WOW....small world....the first Wolf I ever saw, 1991 was right there, actually just north a mile or two if I recall correctly....later found out it was from the first release.
> ............


The DNR did attempt to establish wolves in the summer of 1974. 4 were released. All 4 were dead by late fall. The wolf you saw probably wandered in here from Wisc. or Minn.
Our current wolf population was established by migration, not by trapping and introduction. 

L & O


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## wyandot

I've been following this for a week or so. I didn't buy a license, I don't care to shoot one unless it's in my backyard where it doesn't belong. I trapped for several years and got away from it, but critters in general still fascinate me. I've seen two myself. 1 in Moran area(UP), 1 in straits area(LP). Over the last couple years, sightings (from people who know what they saw, lots of pics too) have been common in the straits area, often close to populated areas. What are you guys seeing in other LP areas? How many do we have in LP? Did they migrate here, or were they planted? Really curious what others see and think about this.


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## S.E.M.O.R.E.

Liver and Onions said:


> The DNR did attempt to establish wolves in the summer of 1974. 4 were released. All 4 were dead by late fall. The wolf you saw probably wandered in here from Wisc. or Minn.
> Our current wolf population was established by migration, not by trapping and introduction.
> 
> L & O




No, the Wolf I saw "PROBABLY" was one that was released. DNR and USFWS worked together / in cooperation to reintroduce Wolves to Michigan. I personally spoke with USFWS, was emailed the documents for the program. 

Simple math defies DNR's denials through the story of migration. While there might have been a 1974 attempt that was publicized, there was also an effort in the late 80's that suffered a similar fate...the next time around, beginning around 2008 the USFWS brought em in. I cant prove any more than you or they can deny...


THe wolf population exploded in a relative few years, conflicts came to light in comparative time frame. Just the numbers alone, considering mortality rates of litters and the numbers admitted to, including number updates, clearly defy common sense/common knowledge of wolf packs elsewhere. That claim can fly in MInnesota and to a degree Wisconsin....but Michigan's upper peninsula makes it a bit more difficult to buy in to natural migration, ESPECIALLY since there weren't ANY Canadian Grays until recently, and there was a 40 year hiatus of pretty much NO wolves in the UP, and those were timber wolves, not Canadian grays...

Reference WOlves in northern Lower....DNR cant make up it's mind...a few years ago it was big news of PROOF of a breeding pair with an incidental discovery of a wolf pup....they had it in a kennel crate....fitted with collar etc...BIG headlines...next thing we hear, the NLP Wolves are most likely hybrids w/ Coyotes...ok whatever....


A former co worker resides near Wilderness State Park...somewhere around 1997 maybe...cant remember the Exact year, might have been a couple years earlier, the straits were froze over, Coast Guard said to have been in a helicopter and filmed wolves on the ice headed south from the UP to NLP...

SO, since I heard the first effort for release failed in incidental deaths, and perhaps it WAS in 74, then the next effort was around 1990, perhaps all those didn't die...but the BIG push was around 2008...Munising NRC Meeting was very loud protest about wolves...people didn't want them...that's when Lindquist got the APR's established for the UP select areas...two years later I had wolves from October through Thanksgiving....EVERY DAY, howling, barking, all hours, trying to take down deer, wife had two of them approach her while she was hunting in an open field....no issues, but there they were...in 2011, late fall, I saw USFWS Helicopter emerge from the swamp edge area near my camp...at the time I wondered why....obvious now...my camp is surrounded by state land, not federal land..and it's remote with few private parcels in my area...all those years NEVER a wolf from the time I stated hunting there in 74....Dickinson COunty by the way...then bam were flooded with them in 2010, the predation of livestock, attacks on hunting dogs, local timber guys talking of seeing them...something they hadn't seen in 25 or more years working in the woods...and SUDDENLY there they are.

Did any of the wolves migrate? Maybe via the Soo....but I seriously doubt and will argue till the cows come home they didn't migrate from Minnesota to the U.P.....ONE wolf managed to cross the ice bridge to Isle Royale years ago....ONE wolf....with all those that appeared in the UP, it seems logical more than ONE wolf would have traveled to Isle Royal over the ice bridge IF they in fact migrated down from Canada as the legend goes.


ALso the wolves were collared...they were vaccinated/inoculated...with all the trappers if DNR was trapping migrating wolves and doing the collaring word would have gotten out, and PROBABLY a big press release on DNR's efforts to study the wolves and determine WHY they migrated....didn't see any of THOSE headlines....WHY? One Wolverine in lower Michigan had DNA tests, trail camera's all kinds of study...Would migrating wolves attract the same attention ESPECIALLY since re introductions efforts had previously failed?? 

WE WERE NOT TOLD THE TRUTH....and there is enough contradictory information in print that substantiates that. SORRY L/O, I respect You and you've posted some good stuff....but on this one, I respectfully disagree with you.


----------



## triplelunger

S.E.M.O.R.E. said:


> No, the Wolf I saw "PROBABLY" was one that was released. DNR and USFWS worked together / in cooperation to reintroduce Wolves to Michigan. I personally spoke with USFWS, was emailed the documents for the program.
> 
> Simple math defies DNR's denials through the story of migration. While there might have been a 1974 attempt that was publicized, there was also an effort in the late 80's that suffered a similar fate...the next time around, beginning around 2008 the USFWS brought em in. I cant prove any more than you or they can deny...
> 
> 
> THe wolf population exploded in a relative few years, conflicts came to light in comparative time frame. Just the numbers alone, considering mortality rates of litters and the numbers admitted to, including number updates, clearly defy common sense/common knowledge of wolf packs elsewhere. That claim can fly in MInnesota and to a degree Wisconsin....but Michigan's upper peninsula makes it a bit more difficult to buy in to natural migration, ESPECIALLY since there weren't ANY Canadian Grays until recently, and there was a 40 year hiatus of pretty much NO wolves in the UP, and those were timber wolves, not Canadian grays...
> 
> Reference WOlves in northern Lower....DNR cant make up it's mind...a few years ago it was big news of PROOF of a breeding pair with an incidental discovery of a wolf pup....they had it in a kennel crate....fitted with collar etc...BIG headlines...next thing we hear, the NLP Wolves are most likely hybrids w/ Coyotes...ok whatever....
> 
> 
> A former co worker resides near Wilderness State Park...somewhere around 1997 maybe...cant remember the Exact year, might have been a couple years earlier, the straits were froze over, Coast Guard said to have been in a helicopter and filmed wolves on the ice headed south from the UP to NLP...
> 
> SO, since I heard the first effort for release failed in incidental deaths, and perhaps it WAS in 74, then the next effort was around 1990, perhaps all those didn't die...but the BIG push was around 2008...Munising NRC Meeting was very loud protest about wolves...people didn't want them...that's when Lindquist got the APR's established for the UP select areas...two years later I had wolves from October through Thanksgiving....EVERY DAY, howling, barking, all hours, trying to take down deer, wife had two of them approach her while she was hunting in an open field....no issues, but there they were...in 2011, late fall, I saw USFWS Helicopter emerge from the swamp edge area near my camp...at the time I wondered why....obvious now...my camp is surrounded by state land, not federal land..and it's remote with few private parcels in my area...all those years NEVER a wolf from the time I stated hunting there in 74....Dickinson COunty by the way...then bam were flooded with them in 2010, the predation of livestock, attacks on hunting dogs, local timber guys talking of seeing them...something they hadn't seen in 25 or more years working in the woods...and SUDDENLY there they are.
> 
> Did any of the wolves migrate? Maybe via the Soo....but I seriously doubt and will argue till the cows come home they didn't migrate from Minnesota to the U.P.....ONE wolf managed to cross the ice bridge to Isle Royale years ago....ONE wolf....with all those that appeared in the UP, it seems logical more than ONE wolf would have traveled to Isle Royal over the ice bridge IF they in fact migrated down from Canada as the legend goes.
> 
> 
> ALso the wolves were collared...they were vaccinated/inoculated...with all the trappers if DNR was trapping migrating wolves and doing the collaring word would have gotten out, and PROBABLY a big press release on DNR's efforts to study the wolves and determine WHY they migrated....didn't see any of THOSE headlines....WHY? One Wolverine in lower Michigan had DNA tests, trail camera's all kinds of study...Would migrating wolves attract the same attention ESPECIALLY since re introductions efforts had previously failed??
> 
> WE WERE NOT TOLD THE TRUTH....and there is enough contradictory information in print that substantiates that. SORRY L/O, I respect You and you've posted some good stuff....but on this one, I respectfully disagree with you.


What is your theory on what these government agencies have to gain by secretly stocking the UP with blood thirsty killer wolves?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Luv2hunteup

Were those the ones dropped from black helicopters and seen by the guys wearing tin foil hats? We've been seeing wolves in the EUP since the late '80s. Once the river freezes over in January, when the shipping season ends, there is not much stopping them from crossing in from Ontario.


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## S.E.M.O.R.E.

triplelunger said:


> What is your theory on what these government agencies have to gain by secretly stocking the UP with blood thirsty killer wolves?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Ohub Campfire mobile app



the powers that be decided to re introduce Wolves...PERIOD. Plenty of info on it. As far as "secretly" I can only offer a few guesses....
First, public sentiment in the yoop was opposition, numerous hearings and discussions.
Second, plausible deniability.
Third, give the Wolves a chance to establish before the wolf haters had opportunity to kill them.


Don't take this personal....but if you get off the couch and attend some meetings, talk with people, do some research, you will find that news from the DNR is not "new" per se...it's already a done deal with issues that might have opposition. They keep their cards close to their chest...no doubt the reasons I listed above, and the ol' well it's been policy, or in place, or here for a year now and we have not had any issues....on the other hand, when they need public support or money there's plenty of press/media coverage, all kinds of cheer leading to get the masses on board.


THe tin foil hat black helicopter stuff...usually takes folks that make those remarks a couple of years to catch on...bobble head kool aid drinkin sheeple with no knowledge or counter point so they mock the messenger with a line they heard someone say that seemed cool at the time. Whatever Pal....one day it will hit home and you can wear the foil...


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## Sammy Bono

I would love to see a wolf, cougar, bobcat, or bear walk by one day when I was deer hunting. I do not want to shoot it. I honestly just want to see one.....Especially the cougar but we all know that does not happen in the LP.


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## Biggbear

S.E.M.O.R.E. said:


> No, the Wolf I saw "PROBABLY" was one that was released. DNR and USFWS worked together / in cooperation to reintroduce Wolves to Michigan. I personally spoke with USFWS, Simple math defies DNR's denials through the story of migration. While there might have been a 1974 attempt that was publicized, there *was emailed the documents for the program.
> 
> *was also an effort in the late 80's that suffered a similar fate...the next time around, beginning around 2008 the USFWS brought em in. I cant prove any more than you or they can deny...
> 
> 
> THe wolf population exploded in a relative few years, conflicts came to light in comparative time frame. Just the numbers alone, considering mortality rates of litters and the numbers admitted to, including number updates, clearly defy common sense/common knowledge of wolf packs elsewhere. That claim can fly in MInnesota and to a degree Wisconsin....but Michigan's upper peninsula makes it a bit more difficult to buy in to natural migration, ESPECIALLY since there weren't ANY Canadian Grays until recently, and there was a 40 year hiatus of pretty much NO wolves in the UP, and those were timber wolves, not Canadian grays...
> 
> Reference WOlves in northern Lower....DNR cant make up it's mind...a few years ago it was big news of PROOF of a breeding pair with an incidental discovery of a wolf pup....they had it in a kennel crate....fitted with collar etc...BIG headlines...next thing we hear, the NLP Wolves are most likely hybrids w/ Coyotes...ok whatever....
> 
> 
> A former co worker resides near Wilderness State Park...somewhere around 1997 maybe...cant remember the Exact year, might have been a couple years earlier, the straits were froze over, Coast Guard said to have been in a helicopter and filmed wolves on the ice headed south from the UP to NLP...
> 
> SO, since I heard the first effort for release failed in incidental deaths, and perhaps it WAS in 74, then the next effort was around 1990, perhaps all those didn't die...but the BIG push was around 2008...Munising NRC Meeting was very loud protest about wolves...people didn't want them...that's when Lindquist got the APR's established for the UP select areas...two years later I had wolves from October through Thanksgiving....EVERY DAY, howling, barking, all hours, trying to take down deer, wife had two of them approach her while she was hunting in an open field....no issues, but there they were...in 2011, late fall, I saw USFWS Helicopter emerge from the swamp edge area near my camp...at the time I wondered why....obvious now...my camp is surrounded by state land, not federal land..and it's remote with few private parcels in my area...all those years NEVER a wolf from the time I stated hunting there in 74....Dickinson COunty by the way...then bam were flooded with them in 2010, the predation of livestock, attacks on hunting dogs, local timber guys talking of seeing them...something they hadn't seen in 25 or more years working in the woods...and SUDDENLY there they are.
> 
> Did any of the wolves migrate? Maybe via the Soo....but I seriously doubt and will argue till the cows come home they didn't migrate from Minnesota to the U.P.....ONE wolf managed to cross the ice bridge to Isle Royale years ago....ONE wolf....with all those that appeared in the UP, it seems logical more than ONE wolf would have traveled to Isle Royal over the ice bridge IF they in fact migrated down from Canada as the legend goes.
> 
> 
> ALso the wolves were collared...they were vaccinated/inoculated...with all the trappers if DNR was trapping migrating wolves and doing the collaring word would have gotten out, and PROBABLY a big press release on DNR's efforts to study the wolves and determine WHY they migrated....didn't see any of THOSE headlines....WHY? One Wolverine in lower Michigan had DNA tests, trail camera's all kinds of study...Would migrating wolves attract the same attention ESPECIALLY since re introductions efforts had previously failed??
> 
> WE WERE NOT TOLD THE TRUTH....and there is enough contradictory information in print that substantiates that. SORRY L/O, I respect You and you've posted some good stuff....but on this one, I respectfully disagree with you.


If you were emailed the documents that prove the USFWS planted wolves in 2008 please post them up. I'm not sure why you feel it's impossible for natural migration to take place, both Minnesota and Wisconsin have had a very healthy wolf population for a long time.
A few years ago there was a young bear right down here in Clarkston, if you're not familiar with the area it's a suburb of Detroit in Oakland County, he walked a long ways to get down here.

At least some of the Cougars in the U.P. migrated from the Dakota's, an even longer walk. 

A couple years ago there was a cougar killed by LEO's in a residential area in a suburb of Chicago, Rosemont or Rosewood something like that anyway. DNA showed that cougar was indeed wild and had walked a god awful long ways from out west.

There was a wolf with a collar from Michigan killed in Missouri not that many years ago also.

All these instances show that wildlife can and will travel hundreds upon hundreds of miles to establish new territories. So could a wolf from Canada end up here, absolutely.

You keep saying you have proof of wolves being re-introduced as late as 2008, I think the majority of us would love to see it.


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## srconnell22

DNR reports 13 wolves killed by hunters using dogs


By Paul A. Smith of the Journal Sentinel	

Dec. 19, 2013 1:37 p.m. 




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Hunters using dogs have killed 13 wolves this month in Wisconsin, according to a report issued Thursday by the Department of Natural Resources.

The wolf kills have occurred since Dec. 2 when the use of dogs became legal to hunt wolves in Wisconsin.

Wisconsin is the only state to authorize the use of dogs to hunt wolves.

The wolves were shot by hunters using firearms as the animals were running from the dogs or as they were held at bay, according to sources.

State regulations allow dogs only for tracking and trailing the wolves. No violation of the wolf hunting laws or animal welfare laws related to the use of dogs has been reported by the DNR.

A lawsuit blocked the use of dogs to hunt wolves in Wisconsin last year. However, a Dane County Circuit Court judge vacated the injunction in January, clearing the way for dogs to be used this year.

An appellate court has yet to rule on an appeal of that decision. 

*The DNR reports 232 wolves have been killed this season in Wisconsin.* The statewide quota is 251. 

*About 80% of the wolves have been killed by trappers using leghold traps.*

*The state has sold 1,862 resident and 11 nonresident wolf hunting and trapping licenses*. The DNR authorized the sale of 2,510 licenses through a preseason lottery.

Only Zone 3 in northwestern Wisconsin, in which 51 wolves have been taken out of a quota of 71, remains open.

*The season will continue through Feb. 28 or until the quota is filled in Zone 3, whichever comes first.*

*Wisconsin had an estimated 809 to 834 wolves in 214 packs in late winter 2013. *The wolf population typically doubles each spring after pups are born and then begins to decline from various sources of mortality.

The DNR is attempting to reduce the wolf population closer to the goal of 350 expressed in the 1999 Wisconsin wolf management plan.
.

Read more from Journal Sentinel: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/23 ... z2nyT0xhpL


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## Rooster Cogburn

Thanks for the update on Wisconsin successful wolf hunt. 

I believe once Michigan's wolf season comes to an end there needs to be some serious discussion on the NRC's legal obligation to manage our fish and wildlife using sound science...based on what appears to be a lack of sound science in this year's wolf hunt plan.


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## Wolverick

I was in Wisconsin in the late 1970`s and saw a pack cross a county road near a small town called Mason. At that time I got a Fur-Fish Game magazine with an article about the last wolf in the state being hit by a car. It even had a picture of a mounted wolf being taken to public schools to show the kids where they told them it was the last wolf in Wisconsin. When my buddy and I told his cousin, a local trapper he was not surprised in the least. 

In the eighties I worked with a guy that spent a lot of time on Sugar Island. He told me about seeing moose and wolves back then. Guess where they came from. The same place the wolves on Isle Royal came from. And for those that don`t think wolves can be in the LP Isle Royal in five miles from Canada. the same distance the LP is from the UP.


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## WAUB-MUKWA

Rooster Cogburn said:


> Thanks for the update on Wisconsin successful wolf hunt.
> 
> I believe once Michigan's wolf season comes to an end there needs to be some serious discussion on the NRC's legal obligation to manage our fish and wildlife using sound science...based on what appears to be a lack of sound science in this year's wolf hunt plan.


I agree too. Another thing is wolves aren't very smart either. The wolf wackos say they are but they are pretty dumb. They only have a good nose but a not very good brain. Now coyotes are on the other hand are very smart. You set out a leg hold trap and you'll get a wolf before you'll get a coyote. The DNR has to stop folding to these wolf nuts. Set another season to include trapping. At least with trapping the majority of the trappers know what they are doing, unlike people who think they know how to hunt a wolf. We saw how that went. Plus most only hunted opening week and that was it.


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## triplelunger

I got an email from the DNR that described they used strains of werewolf DNA to create a more bloodthirsty version of the gray wolf. They then released these hybrids and later found that they retained some traits of pure bred werewolves, and can transform into large hairy men. This could explain the lack of wolf sightings during deer season, and a measurable increase in sightings of large, smelly guys in up bars and taverns. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## srconnell22

Rooster Cogburn said:


> Thanks for the update on Wisconsin successful wolf hunt.
> 
> I believe once Michigan's wolf season comes to an end there needs to be some serious discussion on the NRC's legal obligation to manage our fish and wildlife using sound science...based on what appears to be a lack of sound science in this year's wolf hunt plan.


I mostly posted that to show Wisconsin's prudent efforts at reducing their overpopulation of wolves. Also, I wanted to point out some major differences in how they handle their wolf hunt versus Michigan. 

Wisconsin feels they have a maximum of 832 wolves, and are trying to harvest 251 (30%) of those wolves. They are working on getting the population back down to 350 which was their stated population goal as of 1999 (seems like we've heard something like that somewhere before).:lol:

Wisconsin allows their season to continue all the way through Feb. 28th (I would think that pelts are still prime around that time, but I'm not a trapper) OR UNTIL THE QUOTA IS MET!! They didn't pick an arbitrary date to shut the wolf hunt down regardless of whether or not they met their management objectives. 

Michigan has killed 20 wolves thus far with 1,200 tags (1.67% success rate). Wisconsin has killed 232 wolves with 1873 tags (12.39% success rate). Hound hunters had killed 13 wolves in 17 days that the hound season was open as of the date the article was written. The big kicker is 80% of the overall harvest was by trappers. 

I believe Michigan did it right with their online/phone daily check in, where they missed the boat was including guys that could get it done in the small management units they handcuffed everyone to (the trappers).


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## Musket

Wisconsin's wolf season will close today at 5 pm. With a total of 64 out of 71 for zone 3. Enough to initiate a closure for this year.


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## Luv2hunteup

We may be losing some more wolves. 
http://www.miningjournal.net/page/content.detail/id/593502/


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## MTU-BUCK

Well I know where they've been. Here's to hoping they return to clean up what's left. I couldn't ask for a more natural bait pile.


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## sourdough44

Not much left in that picture. They may just go get a fresh deer to chew on.

I saw a path a few years ago, where a deer pulled itself through the snow for about 60 yards while coyotes ate on the rear end. It was as if a sled plowed through the snow. There was blood along the route and at the end was just a bit of deer hair and a bunch of coyote tracks.


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## fairfax1

Interesting read from the Mining Journal on the Isle Royale situation.

There is no more credible authority on wolves and that island than David Mech....quoted in the article.

His book "*The Wolves of Isle Royale*" is a classic. It showed clearly and unequivocally how sensitive this apex predator is to fluctuations in its primary prey. As the island's moose go, so go the wolves.

Mech, by the way, severely damaged his hearing --permanently --- by spending so many hours over so many years in a single engine plane tracking wolves over the island. He started out as a Purdue grad student under one of the field's most revered professors of wildlife, Durward Allen. 

Much of what we know of wolves comes from researchers/professors considered among the very best in the wildlife field. I'm surprised Mech is not long retired....he's gotta be gettin' up there in years. Allen, of course, passed years ago.

Let me run on a bit more: Allen's 1954 (revised 1962) book*.."Our Wildlife **Legacy*" ....should be in every wildlife/outdoor enthusiasts' library. It is a 'must have' book, like Leopold's "*Game* *Management*", or the more popular "*Sand County Almanac*" 

Also, if you can find in some antique book store...or some estate sale.....Allen's book (published when he was stationed at Rose Lake for the Michigan Conservation Dpt. .... predecessor to today's MDNR)..."*Michigan Fox Squirrel Managment"* (1943)....well, grab it. It too is a classic on a different but very familiar species.


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## sourdough44

The MI count is up to 21. Just a few days left, time to double down.


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## Musket

I have to admit, it's not looking good for meeting the quota. I wish the best to all who are still at it.


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## Robert Holmes

Lets hope that the DNR will open some more area for the next wolf hunt. I had one right in front of me a couple of weeks ago 75 yards give or take a couple. All that I could have done is throw a tip up at it. If they had it a little closer to home I would have bought a tag. I would think that is the problem for most of the people who bought tags. They spent their quota of cash on the wolf/deer hunt and they are not going to invest more money into it. Now is when you would want to be out there as there is plenty of tracking snow. They have to hunt so they are on the move more.


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## Robert Holmes

It is looking like this will be the first year in a long time that there will be a good freeze. If that is the case we may loose a few of our game animals to the LP such as wolves and cougars, there is a good article in the St Ignace news about a cougar that was shot recently in Schoolcraft County.


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## Liver and Onions

reelbusy2 said:


> Can I say jackass


Sure, but who ? Won't it depend on whose opinion is closest to yours ?
Since this was Michigan's first wolf hunt, no doubt a few things will change in the future. First we need to support "Citizens for Professional Wildlife Management" and get those petitions signed. Then our DNR can set a target number of wolves for the UP. Based on what Wis. is doing, would 200-250 sound about right ? Clearly if fewer wolves are what we want, the trappers need to be part of the equation. Hunting alone just doesn't seem to result in many tags being filled.

L & O


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## jamestuomo

No one wins with the wolfs around. NO ONE! 

I hear all this talk about it going to a vote... And when it does We are all screwed. This forumn is filled with cowards.. 

let's do a good job putting the true face on the wolf. Inform the public just how evil and unwanted this scerge truly is. Tell public the reason humans ran them out of michigan back when.. Show the photos of the wolf on a kill! Face covered in blood and guts!! Talk to the families that watch there pets and farm animals get killed.. Show the taxpayers and hunters where the money to support these killers comes from..

This vote is one that hunters will win.

The PETA style groups have been using pics and Vidio of wolfs that are in settings that would make you believe they are just minding there own business. Not a true picture.. Like showing pics of Hitler in church.


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## jamestuomo

No one wins with the wolfs around. NO ONE! 

I hear all this talk about it going to a vote... And when it does We are all screwed. This forumn is filled with cowards.. 

let's do a good job putting the true face on the wolf. Inform the public just how evil and unwanted this scerge truly is. Tell public the reason humans ran them out of michigan back when.. Show the photos of the wolf on a kill! Face covered in blood and guts!! Talk to the families that watch there pets and farm animals get killed.. Show the taxpayers and hunters where the money to support these killers comes from..

This vote is one that hunters will win.

The PETA style groups have been using pics and Vidio of wolfs that are in settings that would make you believe they are just minding there own business. Not a true picture.. Like showing pics of Hitler in church.


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## sourdough44

Time to go after them with your vehicle. One killed in Escanaba, hit by a car/truck.


http://www.uppermichiganssource.com/news/story.aspx?id=988835#.UsMZz_vDsZw


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## reelbusy2

The previous post bashing yoopers and no I'm not a yooper but I've hunted there my whole life. I've been around the world in the US Navy and the yoopers are some of the best people anywhere. Now back on track hopefully they expand the areas because our camp will have multiple tags that will get filled.


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## sourdough44

Lest anyone forget, the real reason anti-hunters like the wolf is they reduced huntable game populations.

They could care less about fledgling elk or moose numbers.


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## kzoofisher




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## Luv2hunteup

A=5
b=14
c=4


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## brokenarrow

L&O Hit it on the head. I for one have applied for preference point only in Wi. since day one. I figured Id give it a few years and see which way is best to have a good chance of a successful wolf hunt. I am signing up for the How to trap wolf course. My trapping education is limited to rats, mink and ****. Trapping is the best way to fill a tag in many instances. Not the way I would of wanted to harvest a wolf but it is what it is. Second best choice is to get friendly with any farmers (put out a wanted ad if need be) That have wolf issues. 
As for the folks that have the opinion of all wolves are bad and need to be exterpilated, All I can say is its your opinion. Please keep it to a minimum. What sportsmen don't need is another black eye making us look like barbaric turn of the ages idiots. Kill all creatures that don't fill our ticket kinda thinking. And that's my opinion. 
There can be a wolf population in our states but only if its in limited numbers. We are too populated of an area to have too many. They need to learn to fear humans! That's number one. We also need to keep pack numbers low and total numbers low also. Just my opinion of course.


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## target-panic

thisusernamevalid said:


> Are you freakin' SERIOUS? All you yoopers ever do is bitch about 'downstaters', 'fudgies', or 'trolls' coming up there and ruining your pristine wilderness. I see these posts in here on a regular basis, in fact, YOU DO IT IN YOUR OWN POST, just read your last sentence.
> 
> There are a couple of reasons you can't give a deer camp away:
> A) The prices are WAY TOO HIGH. From what I've seen whoever is pricing properties up there thinks they're in Birmingham.
> B) Gas is too expensive these days. If I buy something up there I can only use it a few times a year. I'm further ahead to spend more money on something mid-state that I can get to more quickly and with less cost.
> C) Guess what? WE HAVE DEER DOWN HERE! Yes, much different than the often seen but never proven to exist Sasquatch, wolves, or cougar in the LP, it IS a scientifically proven fact that the lower has deer, even Wayne County! Why should I spend a lot of time and money driving up there to be treated like a 'downstater', when I can walk out my back door?
> D) The only people who treat you decently are those with whom you're spending money. Everyone else just scowls if they know where you're from. It's ok in the summertime when you're spending big dollars to go on the Pictured Rocks boat tour, but show up and ask about hunting and see what happens once they know you're a 'troll' from 'under the bridge'.
> 
> My wife's Grandpa was from Calumet. They retired to a little rental cabin resort on Island Lake about 20 min. north of Manistique. We honeymooned up there. We hunted up there. We vacationed up there. My kids' first time away from home was spent up there. When her grandparents passed, one of the uncles offered the place to the grandkids instead of selling it. We all passed. Why? The hunting sucked, and it was SEVEN HOURS AWAY. This was way before wolves were an 'issue'.
> 
> I LOVE the UP. I wish I could get up there more often. I wish I could find a decent piece of land at a decent price. I also wish I didn't feel like I was entering a foreign land as soon as I cross the bridge.
> 
> Trust me, wolves aren't the main reason hunters don't head to the UP in the numbers they used to.



Your post is WAY off base in my opinion, but it does prove the fact that there are abrasive people no no matter where you look. Most Yoopers, if treated with some degree of respect, would give you the shirt off their back. The respect part, just reading between the lines, is where I suspect you've failed.


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## Waif

Hunt a token gesture to appease loss of deer and livestock.
Numbers will grow yet.
when food source becomes depleted it will then affect numbers of predators.
We all know this.
If possible how soon till hunting closures on a frail deer population by area.
Cripes, if a pack were any of the three places I hunted this past season they would have a hard time finding food for pups this coming spring. 
No I am not a certified biologist ,yes they exist, and some have been helpful despite not having in my opinion enough of a voice in decision making ,but I can see tracks in snow showing very few deer .
Wolfs are the control we replaced folks.
Hunt where they don,t, or compete while you can.
Should the U.P. packs grow hungry or crowded they will disperse,nothing new.
Each pack each year,more pups.
The coyotes here are adapt at killing fawns,but don,t take my word for it.
Next years fawn crop where wolves have dens will I hope be studied again for estimates of kill rates, but from this years informal reports the number of does rumored with out fawns at bow opener being high should be repeated.
Adjust to not being dominate predators,after bear ,coyote, cats and now still,wolves.


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## Robert Holmes

I find it ironic that residents of the UP have to deal with wolves and all of the issues that go along with them. The cubical biologists from the pavement paradise centers of the United States want to dictate how we must get along with them. Many of the people voicing their opinions on UP wolf management have never seen a wolf in the UP. Let the residents of the UP deal with the wolves, we will take care of them, and save the taxpayers lots of money.


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## Robert Holmes

Guess what????? We do have a few deer left in the UP. Our cities are not filing for bankruptcy. Our property values are what we can sell them for. We lost 5 million dollars per year in federal funding for Mackinac Bridge maintenance and that money went where??? For the most part we are pretty easy to get along with, if you cross the bridge and act like a troll then you will be treated like a troll. You have to spend gas money when you venture to the UP the same as I do when I go to the LP. I happen to hunt and fish with many LP residents and there are no barriers, it is all about going out and having a good time. I have given out lots of information on this site helping out LP residents. I moved up here from the LP and love every minute of it. Other people come up here to go on vacation, I am on vacation 365.


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## Scout 2

Robert Holmes said:


> Guess what????? We do have a few deer left in the UP. Our cities are not filing for bankruptcy. Our property values are what we can sell them for. We lost 5 million dollars per year in federal funding for Mackinac Bridge maintenance and that money went where??? For the most part we are pretty easy to get along with, if you cross the bridge and act like a troll then you will be treated like a troll. You have to spend gas money when you venture to the UP the same as I do when I go to the LP. I happen to hunt and fish with many LP residents and there are no barriers, it is all about going out and having a good time. I have given out lots of information on this site helping out LP residents. I moved up here from the LP and love every minute of it. Other people come up here to go on vacation, I am on vacation 365.


Very well said. I have never hunted in the UP but I goes there 3 or 4 times a years and have always been treated better that I have in some ares of the LP. Maybe a solution to the wolf problem would be to live trap say 250 or so and put 200 in the city that is going bankrupt and the rest in Lansing. As I have said before you guys have more tolarance for them tan I would have had. It will be interesting to see what they come up with for another season


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## JDSwan87

My wife and I went to the UP this past August... We were both treated just the same (I felt) as if we were in the LP. In my opinion PLEASE AND THANK YOU go a LOOOONG way...

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## thisusernamevalid

JDSwan87 said:


> In my opinion PLEASE AND THANK YOU go a LOOOONG way...


LOL. You act as if you know me. 

"a surplus of hunters and money flowing into the UP. Deer hunting property was sold at a reasonable dollar, businesses had a good cash flow before winter, and taxes were paid....The people who live and hunt in the lower peninsula want to dictate how wildlife is managed 300 miles from their residence." 

Which do you want? Should we bow out and leave you alone, or do you want us to come up there and spend money? If a guy buys property up there, does he have a say, or is he to remain mute because it isn't his 'residence'. 

The OP postulates that people don't come up there anymore because of the wolves. I say his very post indicates exactly what I and others have known for years. 

I have spent many, many hours in the UP. Spent a lot of money in the UP. Enjoyed many of the fine people in the UP. But something happens when discussions about hunting come up. Maybe I just need to hang out with a better class of people.


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## Bushwhacker

I've tried to stay out of this whole wolf thing, but I can't take too much more of all the misinformation over this whole issue.
First, let me say that I have been around wolves for forty years,seen probably around ten a year just living here. I've flown moose surveys,which are also wolf surveys for the MNR here for twenty years, and watched packs of 10 to 15 tracking moose, have landed and chased wolves off wolf kills to check the condition of the kill. Just to say that I have a little experience with wolves. I also went to Mich. Tech for forestry and have deer hunted Baraga Cty.for deer for the last 50 years, I,ve seen good years and years when you couldn't find a track, and this was long before wolves appeared.
When I read responses such as Jamestuomo, who thinks wolves are a scourge and no one wins because they are doing what they are born to do, and Robert Holmes who thinks there is some kind of difference between Grey wolves and Timber wolves and that they also kill for the thrill of it, I begin to wonder about the direction of this whole issue.Then you get the statements like " the wolves were introduced" and " the wolves were exterminated for a reason" and you begin to wonder about the mentality of some so-called "sportsmen". They were not put there and they were wiped out because people were stupid enough to also wipe out the passenger pigeon and try to wipe out the bison.
Yes, I live in Ontario where we hunt and trap wolves, and by the way, if you want to control them trapping , from our experience, is the only way to go. No one here cares much about hunting them, because , in my experience they are much smarter than the average hunter.
I believe your DNR has at least started a control process, and after this year's hunt they will modify the process and do more. I agree that they, maybe, should have opened more area, after hunting the east side of US41, but I also want to emphasize that deer populations in that area are contolled more by the winter than by predation. The last winter was bad, and this one is not started out good, so I'm not looking for good hunting for the next few years, but I haven't hunted there for the deer shot, but for the hunting experience.
So I guess, what I would like to say is I think the DNR is trying to do what they can. There is no good way to really get a count on wolf populations as they move so much in search of their prey. Personally, in my own opinion, I think that have over estimated their wolf population, considering the average pack can travel up to 50 miles a day, so they can leave a lot of tracks. People see a few wolves here and tomorrow they can be seen by someone else 50 miles away.
All I'm saying is, don,t let all the emotions get in the way of wildlife management, whether it be for deer or wolves.

Bushwhacker


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## Rooster Cogburn

Initially, to delist wolves a population of 200 wolves in the U.P. needed to be sustained for 5 years. Public statements by MDNR had it....they felt 200 wolves was a number we could live with and prevent the general public from turning negative. Most likely, if the U.P. wolf population had not exceeded 300 public sentiment would not have turned so negative in the U.P. Not long after the wolves were delisted a DNR public statement came out stating, "we have not decided on how many wolves there should be in the U.P." To me this meant a hand full of bureaucrats in the DNR felt like they had the power to dictate the number of wolves we would have to accept here in the U.P. And, this sort of tactic....as usual came from bureaucrats who have no skin in the game. I need to mention here....this stuff took place when Granholm was governor and Ms. Humphries was DNR director. MDNR lost a lot of credibility during her tenure. Hopefully, Director Creagh will have some success erasing some of that.


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## U of M Fan

Robert Holmes said:


> From 1990 until about 2004 we have had a surplus of deer in the UP. With that came a surplus of hunters and money flowing into the UP. Deer hunting property was sold at a reasonable dollar, businesses had a good cash flow before winter, and taxes were paid. At the same time the wolf population grew. In order for the wolf population to grow they had to feed on and kill deer even for practice "thrill kill". Now the deer population is way down and the wolf population is way up. You cannot give a deer camp away, businesses are closed up, and less taxes. You cannot find too many UP residents who have anything good to say about wolves because we are stuck with them and their problems. The people who live and hunt in the lower peninsula want to dictate how wildlife is managed 300 miles from their residence.


Amen!!!! Iron river used to have quite a few hotels and restaurants. Now you one chain hotel and a couple restaurants. Ever year we go up another place is closed. If Scott's sub shop or Kermit's closes there won't be anything for me there. Wolfs have changed hunting in U.P. In the worst way.


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## 2PawsRiver

Have been going to the Big Manistee River for years for Salmon Season. Was talking to the owner of the Tackle Shop I always frequent in Welston and he was telling me how much business has declined for him....it is obvious how much it has declined for other business, as they are closed.

Weather is good, still plenty of fish, but numbers of fishermen continue to decline, not because of Wolves, but simple economics. A trip North used to cost 50 bucks, how it costs twice as much. I used to make 2 or 3 one day trips north, now I only do the week long trip.

A trip to the UP cost a ton more, and more and more people simply can't afford it. Then add it that more and more hunters are not so much into hunting, but rather just shooting deer, and quite frankly the shooting is much better down here.

Unless you're prepared to blame the cost of gas on wolves as well as a decline in hunters vs shooters.......the problems in the UP have very little do do with wolves.


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