# New "BIG Water" Boat



## jmmcgarr (Oct 14, 2013)

Ill be shopping for a big water boat for next season andI am looking for some opinions. I currently have a 14 flat bottom with a longtail 6.5hp that we hunt inland small water and reserve hunts. It works good butis a little underpowered and I dont see it being capable in the bigger waters.Without going crazy what would be a good all-around setup for hunting Saginaw Bay,2-4 man capable? I have never hunted the bay so please excuse the lack ofexpertise. What is the current opinion for under $10K. I prefer used equipment asI like someone else absorbing the initial depreciation


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## killing&grillin (Oct 4, 2012)

What are you doing with your old one? 

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## Nuff Daddy (Dec 5, 2012)

16-18 foot modified v Jon boat. At least 4' wide at the bottom. Make sure it has deep sides and thick aluminum. Lots of hidden rocks in the bay and you are bound to bump one eventually...don't want to rip a hole in the bottom of a cheap boat. A 25-40 hp tiller steer without hydraulic tilt/trim. You want to be able to have it bounce up if you hit something underwater. 
There are a lot of places where you would be fine along the bay with the setup you already have. But you would be limited


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## Nuff Daddy (Dec 5, 2012)

Just be smart out there and use. Common sense. A quick wind switch can take the bay from dead calm to a 3'-4' chop in min.


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## bullet1115 (Sep 27, 2012)

pm sent


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## jmmcgarr (Oct 14, 2013)

I will be keeping my current boat for Shiawassee and other lakes I hunt up north. Just looking to add to the collection.


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## jmmcgarr (Oct 14, 2013)

Thanks Nuff, That was along the lines of what I was thinking too. My buddy is dead set on a pontoon. He has concerns about stability of a jon boat, both shooting from and if you need to make a run if the wind sneeks up on you. Any opinons on pontoons vs a mod v?


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## killing&grillin (Oct 4, 2012)

Ok. I'm in the market for a mod v 14-16 footer. My deep v 14 isn't wife enough for me. Find I'm tripping over stuff all the time

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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

I've been tossing around a war eagle or prodigy boat for my next big purchase. I need to do a little more research on prodigy but from what pictures I have seen they look pretty sweet.....and custom built too!


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## killing&grillin (Oct 4, 2012)

Wareagles are really nice boats but they are very heavy.. I like my boat to draft shallow cause I am in some shallow stuff sometimes

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## Nuff Daddy (Dec 5, 2012)

jmmcgarr said:


> Thanks Nuff, That was along the lines of what I was thinking too. My buddy is dead set on a pontoon. He has concerns about stability of a jon boat, both shooting from and if you need to make a run if the wind sneeks up on you. Any opinons on pontoons vs a mod v?


I'm trading out my 1648 for a pontoon for next season. 
Will be a little more difficult to hunt with only one buddy an impossible by myself, but the extra room and stability will be nice I think.


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## Nuff Daddy (Dec 5, 2012)

killing&grillin said:


> Ok. I'm in the market for a mod v 14-16 footer. My deep v 14 isn't wife enough for me. Find I'm tripping over stuff all the time
> 
> Sent from my Torque using Ohub Campfire mobile app


My boat will be up for sale next spring. Shoot me a pm if you want.


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## adam bomb (Feb 27, 2006)

16-20 V bottom. Lund Alaskan or a Starcraft Freedom are nice big water boats. Outside the 10 K range but models to use as comparison when choosing a boat


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## Nuff Daddy (Dec 5, 2012)

I guess it depends on what you mean by big water too. You looking for open water diver hunting where trips might be 5-10 miles and a lot of gear, or puddle/shoreline diver hunting a mile or 2 from the launches?


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## killing&grillin (Oct 4, 2012)

Nuff Daddy said:


> My boat will be up for sale next spring. Shoot me a pm if you want.


Pmed

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## jmmcgarr (Oct 14, 2013)

By big water I was thinking a few miles from launches. I was mostly concerned about hunting from the boat and the boat being capable if the wind picked up. Do you worry about the wind changing directions and blowing the water out of the bay? I would think that a flat bottom would have less concern than a pontoon in minimal water.


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## charcoal300zxtt (Sep 8, 2011)

There's a used 20' lund alaskan on Craigslist saw it a week or so ago for $11k. Little big for 2 guys but def not to big for the bay.


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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

jmmcgarr said:


> By big water I was thinking a few miles from launches. I was mostly concerned about hunting from the boat and the boat being capable if the wind picked up. Do you worry about the wind changing directions and blowing the water out of the bay? I would think that a flat bottom would have less concern than a pontoon in minimal water.


That is always a concern for bay hunters....a small wind change could be trouble. If you go out on a light wind in a small boat and it picks up...it can be a hairy ride back...but if the water blows out and your big heavy boat is high and dry....it could be a long walk and a few days before you get your gear back. I don't know how a pontoon would fare...Ii know most guys just anchor or auger them in for the season and take em out before the ice...as for using on to hunt out with a motor....seems like a lot of work, but then again you could put a leather couch on it and just live out there. :evil:


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## Nuff Daddy (Dec 5, 2012)

jmmcgarr said:


> By big water I was thinking a few miles from launches. I was mostly concerned about hunting from the boat and the boat being capable if the wind picked up. Do you worry about the wind changing directions and blowing the water out of the bay? I would think that a flat bottom would have less concern than a pontoon in minimal water.


Just don't get to shallow with the boat for that to be a problem. I usually keep my boat in 18 inches or more. If I want to hunt the shore line I'll hunt from the cattails. When you setup where it might be a problem, put a pole in the ground and mark the current water level. Keep an eye on it so you can get out before its too late if it starts dropping. 
Opening day, went spent the previous night on the water. We went to sleep with the boat anchored in 18 inches of water, and woke up at 3am with the boat beached on 2" of water. Luckily it came back up a few inches by the end of the day so we could get out.


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## TeamFowlAssassins (Nov 7, 2007)

Lund Alaskan's are very nice boats, but hard to stay under the $10k... Crestliner makes a Kodiak which is same concept as the Alaskan that you should be able to get under your $10k budget... 18' would be a nice size & will get you quite a few places as well. Or go with a wider all-weld Mod-v jon boat 17-18'... Either would work, but the Kodiak or Alaksan would let you get you into bigger water better & be more stable.


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## charcoal300zxtt (Sep 8, 2011)

Found it.

http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/boa/4143718052.html


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## killing&grillin (Oct 4, 2012)

I hunt outta a 20ft Alaskan from time to time and its like a Cadillac compared to my little mod v. We never hesitate to take it on lake Erie, holds all the gear you could possibly fit and drafts pretty shallow compared to some other boats of the same size. 

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## just tryin to fish (May 31, 2004)

i dont own one but have hunted out of a 20ft duck water boat that was awsome handled 6 ft waves great. they have several diferent options.i have been looking at getting one for next season.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Alaskan's are "cadillacs" when it comes to duck boats. I have one. I've had it in some pretty rough seas, both hunting and fishing. Was on lower Lake Huron one time in the spring walleye fishing...probably 8'-10'ers, and when we fell into the bottom of a wave, we were gone...couldn't see anything but us. Scariest **** I've ever been out in. But ya know what...I never once felt that we were in danger. Alaskans are tanks! It just made for a really rough ride (and this from a guy who HATES rollercoasters!) Only issue with a big deep V is if you wanna go shallow, which is almost a must hunting on the bay in the last 15 years, you have the problem of a big outboard engine, and tilting them up in order to run them. The boat itself drafts very little, and you can walk it into very shallow. But you just don't get much forward movement when you're in 8-10" of water tilted with an OB.


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## DuckDynasty (Oct 5, 2012)

I have a 1860 Alumacraft tunnel hull with a Yamaha 60 four stroke tiller that I would sell. PM if interested.


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## Chris391 (Feb 15, 2004)

I just picked up Alaskan this year and its worked out great for the layout and gear. Took it out last weekend one day without layout gear and forgot how much room the boat has. I would pull up specs on all the boats and compare them. I would also say that Lund at some point changed the specs on the Alaskan. I've looked at older 18ft around years 2000 to 2003 and the beam was narrower and rated for less HP. My 16ft 2012 measures 81 wide and has length of 16'10" it moves with the 60HP on it. Good place to go is one of the boat/fishing shows to allow you to compare models. Even if buying new isn't in the cards talk to the dealers they get trade ins and can give you a call.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Chris391 said:


> I just picked up Alaskan this year and its worked out great for the layout and gear. Took it out last weekend one day without layout gear and forgot how much room the boat has. I would pull up specs on all the boats and compare them. I would also say that Lund at some point changed the specs on the Alaskan. I've looked at older 18ft around years 2000 to 2003 and the beam was narrower and rated for less HP. My 16ft 2012 measures 81 wide and has length of 16'10" it moves with the 60HP on it. Good place to go is one of the boat/fishing shows to allow you to compare models. Even if buying new isn't in the cards talk to the dealers they get trade ins and can give you a call.


Same boat I have, but mine's an '06. As I said, great in big water/heavy seas. But if you intend to go shallow, like 12" or less, it's not the best choice due to the motor. And I'm a guy who LOVES my Alaskan, but that's the fact. 

As we've talked about here many times over the years, there is no "one size fits all" duck boat.


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## Chris391 (Feb 15, 2004)

Just Ducky you are spot on with needing more than one boat for duck hunting! Now if my money tree would just grow I can expand my fleet lol


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## fowlattitude (Nov 19, 2008)

I always say you need around four or five different duck boats to cover your basis. Not counting the layouts of course. I think I could make things come together then. Lol


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## Snuffy (Sep 9, 2010)

Have 18ft deep v with auluminum frame blind for sale. PM if you have interest. Significantly under your price point, even considering needed motor improvement investment. Great for big water.


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## Nuff Daddy (Dec 5, 2012)

If I could have 5 duck boats they would be 
-16' flat back canoe with a 9.9 outboard
-1436 Jon with a long tail
-17' gator trax with a surface drive
-16' air ranger
-duckwater ocean
-2 layout boats

You could hunt anywhere and everywhere any way you wanted with that fleet of boats.


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## fowlattitude (Nov 19, 2008)

My list would look very similiar. That covers most basis of what and where you could hunt. I like it.


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## Timber (Jan 1, 2009)

Nuff Daddy said:


> 16-18 foot modified v Jon boat. At least 4' wide at the bottom. Make sure it has deep sides and thick aluminum. Lots of hidden rocks in the bay and you are bound to bump one eventually...don't want to rip a hole in the bottom of a cheap boat. A 25-40 hp tiller steer without hydraulic tilt/trim. You want to be able to have it bounce up if you hit something underwater.
> There are a lot of places where you would be fine along the bay with the setup you already have. But you would be limited










just ducky said:


> Same boat I have, but mine's an '06. As I said, great in big water/heavy seas. But if you intend to go shallow, like 12" or less, it's not the best choice due to the motor. And I'm a guy who LOVES my Alaskan, but that's the fact.
> 
> As we've talked about here many times over the years, there is no "one size fits all" duck boat.


I hammered some ducks Sunday, Sorry about that last post.

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## walleyeman2006 (Sep 12, 2006)

went from a 14 ft deep v with a 20 HP to a 16 ft with a 40 horse both out boards....not any difference in draft ...its a bit much for me to launch and load alone..all I really gained was room..both boats do 28 MPH lol I got some work to do on the 16 a bit of moving things around should get me up near 35.......if I had money to play with I'd be looking for fast and sturdy...being able to run is all ways good

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## jmmcgarr (Oct 14, 2013)

Nuff Daddy said:


> If I could have 5 duck boats they would be
> -16' flat back canoe with a 9.9 outboard
> -1436 Jon with a long tail
> -17' gator trax with a surface drive
> ...


Great list. I have a flat back canoe and the 14' with a long tail. I think after this conversation I will be keeping my eyes open for a 17-18' mod v with surface drive to temperarily complete the fleet. I know there are a lot of opinions out there but what is the difference between Lowe, Gator Trax, War Eagle, etc. if all are welded what are pros and cons and value difference?


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

If you want a boat that will get you out and back alive no matter what I would look at an 18 to 20 foot Lund or StarCraft. My starcraft has been out in 9 footers no problem. You also have to get a bigger motor or the waves will push your boat over.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

killing&grillin said:


> Wareagles are really nice boats but they are very heavy.. I like my boat to draft shallow cause I am in some shallow stuff sometimes
> 
> Sent from my Torque using Ohub Campfire mobile app


i dont think this is true at all. i work on a lot of boats through the year and lined up side by side with most other boats of same size and class i would go even further and say the Weagle is lighter than most. 

if you load up any boat full of gun boxes, floors and all the options...they are all heavy.


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## Dahmer (Jan 22, 2007)

jmmcgarr said:


> Great list. I have a flat back canoe and the 14' with a long tail. I think after this conversation I will be keeping my eyes open for a 17-18' mod v with surface drive to temperarily complete the fleet. I know there are a lot of opinions out there but what is the difference between Lowe, Gator Trax, War Eagle, etc. if all are welded what are pros and cons and value difference?


If your looking at getting a mod v I would look at a Seaark. I to bought a 1872 used and put a new 75 hp Etec on it and it is a solid boat. Tall sides all welded construction. Very stable boat in rough water. They are also rated to carry alot of weight. As for motors I would run a outboard if your going to be hunting open water. Surface drive is going to limit you in rough water and ice. Also mod v is going to be a rougher/wetter ride then a v hull.

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## waxico (Jan 21, 2008)

Here is what I run throughout the season:

17' canoe with bracket, 4 hp
8' camo kayak
Lock Stock Barrel 13' South Bay scooter
16' Double ended sneak boat
10' long wide marsh doble ended layout kayak
13' vintage Herters boat
14' light weight jon boat/4 hp
14' Polar Craft wide mod v with 35 hp
14' Sea King V with boat blind, 15 hp
15 Tracker topper with 12hp longtail
17' Crestliner with boat bling, 90 hp
18' Smoker/Starcraft Freedom with 60 hp tilller

Yes I have a problem....
Next spring I'll post pics of the fleet....


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

waxico said:


> Here is what I run throughout the season:
> 
> 17' canoe with bracket, 4 hp
> 8' camo kayak
> ...


What? Your not going to post the ride you've been chasing tail in:lol:


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## Bayport (Aug 29, 2009)

Excel 1854 with Mud Buddy black death 4200 surface drive, use it on the Bay all the time. Good for shallow and deep water. In shallow water the rear steps on each step in the stern is ideal. Purchased from Freeway Marine.


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## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

jonesy16 said:


> I've been tossing around a war eagle or prodigy boat for my next big purchase. I need to do a little more research on prodigy but from what pictures I have seen they look pretty sweet.....and custom built too!


I finally ran mine all weekend hunting and I can not say enough good things about this new boat. It seems every time I run it I like it more. It planes out quickly, the ride is very very stable and it drafts in just inches of water but has 21" side and a vee rake bow so in bigger waves shes a friggin beast as well. I planed her out in a little ditch this weekend that was about 6" wider than the boat in 6" of water. Could run with a large load and two people in 4" of sand bottom creek channel as fast as I wanted to go! It seems the more weight I add the better is turns and handles. I could not be happier with the new boat. It is a true flat bottom (no ribs) with gator glide G4 on the hull. 
Smoke


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## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

Dahmer said:


> If your looking at getting a mod v I would look at a Seaark. I to bought a 1872 used and put a new 75 hp Etec on it and it is a solid boat. Tall sides all welded construction. Very stable boat in rough water. They are also rated to carry alot of weight. As for motors I would run a outboard if your going to be hunting open water. Surface drive is going to limit you in rough water and ice. Also mod v is going to be a rougher/wetter ride then a v hull.
> 
> Sent from my MB855 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


I would have no issues at all running big water with my new boat and a modded 35 mud buddy. Plenty of torque and power to run in any conditions including iced up conditions. 
Smoke


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## snowman (Jan 29, 2005)

I don't see any mention of how you hunt other than 2-4 guys on Sag Bay. A 16' with 4 guys and a 40hp and 200 wood or cork diver decoys is too much. Same thing with a couple dozen plastic mallards is different. 

My crew uses 3 boats. A 16' Starcraft Mariner and an 18' Grizzly. I have a 20' Lund Alaskan and usually have 3 guys with all their needed gear, 200 wood, cork, and foam diver decoys, 15 gallons of fuel, a 9.9 kicker, and a 400lb 115hp Merc. Even this is loaded to the max at a limit of 2160lbs. 

Get the most you can find and afford. No duck hunter ever said I need a smaller boat.


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## Dahmer (Jan 22, 2007)

smoke said:


> I would have no issues at all running big water with my new boat and a modded 35 mud buddy. Plenty of torque and power to run in any conditions including iced up conditions.
> Smoke


I see problems running that boat/ mud motor in 3' plus waves. Hey what do i know!

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## duckbuster2 (Aug 14, 2008)

Here's a good one for the bay.
http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/boa/4224988447.html


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## jmmcgarr (Oct 14, 2013)

snowman said:


> I don't see any mention of how you hunt other than 2-4 guys on Sag Bay. A 16' with 4 guys and a 40hp and 200 wood or cork diver decoys is too much. Same thing with a couple dozen plastic mallards is different.
> 
> We usually run 30 super mag mallards, 12 std. divers, 12 std. woodies, 12 std. canadians, 3 mag pintials, 3 mag blacks. But once again this is what we have to hunt inland lakes and reserves. In the 14' jon boat 2 people is tight, with 3 people one needs to sit on the floor w/ deeks on their lap. We usually only run 3 like that to hunt the 30/40's at Shiawassee. If we hunt 4 we take the canoe + 14'. I am willing to work towards whatever gear is needed to take avantage of the bay. Figured I would start with a safe/capable boat.


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## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

jmmcgarr said:


> Great list. I have a flat back canoe and the 14' with a long tail. I think after this conversation I will be keeping my eyes open for a 17-18' mod v with surface drive to temperarily complete the fleet. I know there are a lot of opinions out there but what is the difference between Lowe, Gator Trax, War Eagle, etc. if all are welded what are pros and cons and value difference?


The main difference I know about between these boats you mentioned are the chines. War eagle, lowe, starcraft and sea ark etc. boats are designed for an outboard motor which have a different angle on the transom and square chines.

You mention Gatortrax as well; these boats along with Excel, Prodigy, Uncle J's, dfou customs etc, have round or as some call them triple taper chines. They are designed for surface drive mud motors. 

The round chines on these boats, plus the true flat bottoms (no ribs on the bottom of the hull like on a flat bottom or mod vee ) and the fact that the transoms are at a different angle are all about handling in skinny water while you are basically hydroplaning your boat at 30 mph (cornering at higher speeds) and to handle the torque and power of a surface drive motor. These motors when trimmed correctly only have half the prop in the water and the bottom half is giving forward propulsion. Which is why they are called surface drives. The boats you mentioned are all good boats in there own right but are designed for different applications. I never really bought in on the differences making that much of a deal. That is until I got my new Prodigy 1854 vee rake hull. It is a one piece hull with the false transom and the drop deck fabricated in to the 1 piece hull. This boat out performs anything i've ever own or have ridden in. It floats in very little water and handles like a Ferrari. That boat is the best handling, smoothest riding and best cornering boat I have ever been in. I've been in Gatortrax, Excels, war eagles, lowe roughnecks, Landau, Go devils and most of the others. There are custom builders out there now that are building thier 1 piece hulls from 3/16 and 1/4" 5086 aluminum! Just beastly boats that can take all the abuse that a duck hunter can throw at them and more. I did tons and tons of research before pulling the trigger on my new boat. I was not going to spend that kind of money on something that I was not happy with. So I ended up going with a Prodigy for several reasons. 

Hope this helped you out. If you still have questions fell free to fire away. I might be able to answer them.
Smoke


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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

smoke said:


> The main difference I know about between these boats you mentioned are the chines. War eagle, lowe, starcraft and sea ark etc. boats are designed for an outboard motor which have a different angle on the transom and square chines.
> 
> You mention Gatortrax as well; these boats along with Excel, Prodigy, Uncle J's, dfou customs etc, have round or as some call them triple taper chines. They are designed for surface drive mud motors.
> 
> ...


You and I might have to have a chat here soon about your new purchase. Probably will be a year or two before the purchase but I am really interested on Prodigy's product.

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## 28877 (Oct 25, 2007)

adam bomb said:


> 16-20 V bottom. Lund Alaskan or a Starcraft Freedom are nice big water boats. Outside the 10 K range but models to use as comparison when choosing a boat



Both are very good choices--I had an 18' modified V that looked good, but was unable to handle any kind of wave. Big water boats are just that, big water boats. I currently use a Starcraft Great Lakes Fisherman series. It can handle more than I can, and it can be used for more than just 2 months out of the year. You can pick em up used under $10k. Several companies share the hull, but they sell fast


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## here2 (Apr 28, 2008)

To me "big water" isn't anything with a flat bottom, yeah sure you can run in some waves and be "safe" but your gonna get the [email protected] beat out of you IMO . I would surf Craigslist and get a 16-18 ft older dual consol boat and rip everything out and put a big brand new tiller on it and be done, or keep on console if that's your jam. 


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## Adam Gibbs (Jul 13, 2006)

newtolayout said:


> Both are very good choices--I had an 18' modified V that looked good, but was unable to handle any kind of wave. Big water boats are just that, big water boats. I currently use a Starcraft Great Lakes Fisherman series. It can handle more than I can, and it can be used for more than just 2 months out of the year. You can pick em up used under $10k. Several companies share the hull, but they sell fast


Agreed. I bought an 18ft mod v this year. While for me and the hunting and fishing I do down here in NC, it is a great comprimise, I think I will be looking at a different boat when I get back to MI. Theres a river down here we hunt that is tidal influenced and several miles wide. When the wind kicks up the chop gets pretty bad. Its almost identical to Saginaw bay with short choppy waves that are not very far apart. We went out the other morning and before we even started getting the longlines out, the chop was 2-4 footers. Pulled the plug on the trip and started heading in. If the waves were 2 footers, it was no issue, but every now and then you could see a bigger wave about to hit the bow and we'd get a lot of water over the front. At no point was I worried, but it definately was no fun and by the time I made it back in I wish I would have bought an Alaskan. 

Weigh your options carefully. If you do decide to go with a mod v, make sure its a welded model and has tall sides. Good luck.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Adam Gibbs said:


> Agreed. I bought an 18ft mod v this year. While for me and the hunting and fishing I do down here in NC, it is a great comprimise, I think I will be looking at a different boat when I get back to MI. Theres a river down here we hunt that is tidal influenced and several miles wide. When the wind kicks up the chop gets pretty bad. Its almost identical to Saginaw bay with short choppy waves that are not very far apart. We went out the other morning and before we even started getting the longlines out, the chop was 2-4 footers. Pulled the plug on the trip and started heading in. If the waves were 2 footers, it was no issue, but every now and then you could see a bigger wave about to hit the bow and we'd get a lot of water over the front. At no point was I worried, but it definately was no fun and by the time I made it back in I wish I would have bought an Alaskan.
> 
> Weigh your options carefully. If you do decide to go with a mod v, make sure its a welded model and has tall sides. Good luck.


That right there is one GREAT testimonial for why I should keep my Alaskan  Thanks man...you really helped me here.


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