# Conditions below Foote?



## RobW

What's the water looking like below the dam this week? Anyone care to predict what it'll look like by this weekend?


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## Fishndude

With the rain we had, the river bumped up to about 1900 cfs yesterday. It has dropped quite a bit, and will be lower this coming weekend. The river needed a good flush - lower river was full of a light layer of muck on the sand. This should push that muck out, and bring some fresh fish in. There have been fishable numbers of Steelhead in the river for quite a while. I would go if I didn't have other obligations.


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## brian0013

Fishndude said:


> With the rain we had, the river bumped up to about 1900 cfs yesterday. It has dropped quite a bit, and will be lower this coming weekend. The river needed a good flush - lower river was full of a light layer of muck on the sand. This should push that muck out, and bring some fresh fish in. There have been fishable numbers of Steelhead in the river for quite a while. I would go if I didn't have other obligations.


Me and a half dozen people I talked to in the last week and a half I fished would beg to differ lol . It's been tough . But if u guys are getting the rain I've got down here this week I hope they've improved!two of the old timers I talked too said its been the worst fall for steel in a few years


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## Fishndude

I don't disagree that the fishing hasn't been "normal" this year. Not a real lot of fish, and not many big fish at all. But I know a couple guys who landed 21 Steelhead between them, last Friday. They thought the fishing was pretty good. I made it to the river at the crack of noon, and pulled 2 fish, hitting spots they had already fished at least once.

I guess I am getting to be one of the old-timers. I can remember fishing the river in 2004, and landed 1 - 12" Steelhead in 4 days of fishing. The fishing this year is far better than it was in 2004 - 2006. 2013 was the last really decent year for Steelhead I remember. Not many Skippers, and most of the fish caught were at least 7#. 7# is my biggest fish this fall, so far. Hopefully as the lake cools, more and bigger fish will come in. We shall see. One year, maybe 8 years ago, all the Steelhead that came in were Skippers. No adult-sized fish - although many of the "Skippers" were ready to spawn.

I honestly think Lake Huron is still reeling from the effects of the Mussels, and there isn't nearly as much bait as a lot of people think there is. A DNR biologist once told me (before the Mussels) that they figured the Ausable got 13,000 - 16,000 Steelhead returning each year. That is after the lake anglers took lots of them while trolling. It sure wasn't hard to find fish back then.

Not sure where "down here" is, but I live in the Detroit area. We got a slug of rain yesterday. Northern Michigan got less, but still got a decent amount. The river temp is still in the lower 40's. Usually it is in the mid-upper 30's at this time of year, and cooling quickly. This is a strange year for the weather, but that is another discussion.


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## MichiganStreamside

Fishndude said:


> I don't disagree that the fishing hasn't been "normal" this year. Not a real lot of fish, and not many big fish at all. But I know a couple guys who landed 21 Steelhead between them, last Friday. They thought the fishing was pretty good. I made it to the river at the crack of noon, and pulled 2 fish, hitting spots they had already fished at least once.
> 
> I guess I am getting to be one of the old-timers. I can remember fishing the river in 2004, and landed 1 - 12" Steelhead in 4 days of fishing. The fishing this year is far better than it was in 2004 - 2006. 2013 was the last really decent year for Steelhead I remember. Not many Skippers, and most of the fish caught were at least 7#. 7# is my biggest fish this fall, so far. Hopefully as the lake cools, more and bigger fish will come in. We shall see. One year, maybe 8 years ago, all the Steelhead that came in were Skippers. No adult-sized fish - although many of the "Skippers" were ready to spawn.
> 
> I honestly think Lake Huron is still reeling from the effects of the Mussels, and there isn't nearly as much bait as a lot of people think there is. A DNR biologist once told me (before the Mussels) that they figured the Ausable got 13,000 - 16,000 Steelhead returning each year. That is after the lake anglers took lots of them while trolling. It sure wasn't hard to find fish back then.
> 
> Not sure where "down here" is, but I live in the Detroit area. We got a slug of rain yesterday. Northern Michigan got less, but still got a decent amount. The river temp is still in the lower 40's. Usually it is in the mid-upper 30's at this time of year, and cooling quickly. This is a strange year for the weather, but that is another discussion.


Had one of the warmest driest Novembers on record which means low numbers of Steelhead for the Au Sable River as the fall run is just starting. Same happened in so called good old days with these conditions occured. Those that fished the river a lot will tell you the fall run is always slow in coming and December is typically the month of largest numbers. The fish are a couple weeks late so this tell us the health of Lake Huron? LOL! For the health of late Lake Huron look at creel reports from a number of port, avg size of steelhead and salmon being caught and weir data. Last year was one of biggest late fall run in the last decade on the Au Sable.

Currently there sure are steelhead around with the majority being skippers. There are some nice adults steelhead around but not high numbers. Seeing all those nice 8-10lbs from the lake this summer but they are sure not coming up the river yet in any numbers. River needs a lot of rain and to cool down more.


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## ausable_steelhead

I think you're referring to 2005 Breck, as 2004 was a pretty good fall.

I'm not worried a bit about the Au Sab; fish will come in December and January like usual. I've set a goal to be considerably more aggressive and thorough in my fishing this winter. Feels like I've become a little complacent and less driven for numbers the last several years.

I wonder how long the Atlantics will stick around post-spawn? Not that they will fight much, but still be interesting to see on the Big A.


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## brian0013

You know I've never tried fishing into jan for steel . I switch over to ice fishing for perch and walleye . Will say it's taken ahold of me as of late it's all I want to do hardly hunted this becaue I was on the river so much .ill have to bring the waders up when I'm headed to Hubbard lake for some eater eyes n jumbo yellow bellies


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## herb09

Made my first trip of the year yesterday there were a few fish around. Water was up a little and flow was perfect. As far as Atlantic's they seemed to have done there thing and left,







covered the upper half and didn't see any.


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## MichiganStreamside

herb09 said:


> Made my first trip of the year yesterday there were a few fish around. Water was up a little and flow was perfect. As far as Atlantic's they seemed to have done there thing and left,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> covered the upper half and didn't see any.


Looking good herb!


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## MichiganStreamside

The river is sure not loaded up but there were some nice steelhead around today!


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## herb09

I think Eric had her in the boat yesterday.


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## brian0013

Nice fish guys


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## Jayvelaz1130

I think Eric is not only a deer slayer but a fish tamer lol nice dime bright buddy, I'll see you soon


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## MichiganStreamside

Yesterday on the Au Sable River!


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## herb09

Very nice.


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## DXT Deer Slayer

Jayvelaz1130 said:


> I think Eric is not only a deer slayer but a fish tamer lol nice dime bright buddy, I'll see you soon


Hope so Jay! Looking forward to it.

Nice fish on the swing!


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## herb09

Jayvelaz1130 said:


> I think Eric is not only a deer slayer but a fish tamer lol nice dime bright buddy, I'll see you soon










Boy can cook too.


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## MichiganStreamside

After a couple days this week of major water shut on the Au Sable it was back up and flowing normal yesterday! Ice was building everywhere and in town froze up. At least bringing that water back up got a lot of that ice moving and conditions were pretty good yesterday. Got this one with a bright green & gold Intruder and he just crushed it! Got to love winter steelheading!


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## ausable_steelhead

MichiganStreamside said:


> After a couple days this week of major water shut on the Au Sable it was back up and flowing normal yesterday! Ice was building everywhere and in town froze up. At least bringing that water back up got a lot of that ice moving and conditions were pretty good yesterday. Got this one with a bright green & gold Intruder and he just crushed it! Got to love winter steelheading!


That didn't last long...845cfs right now.


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## MichiganStreamside

ausable_steelhead said:


> That didn't last long...845cfs right now.


I know and its sucks! We need stable flows. Piss poor auto system at Foote only works when temps are above normal in winter which isn't very often. At least it sounds like we are about to lose the bitter cold for a while.


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## MichiganStreamside

NEangler said:


> Not saying its wonderful. let me rephrase. Footes operating the way it was programed.


You are correct running just way it was set up to with no regard for winter steelhead fishery! Lots of changes could be make and fit in with FERC agreement.


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## NEangler

MichiganStreamside said:


> You are correct running just way it was set up to with no regard for winter steelhead fishery! Lots of changes could be make and fit in with FERC agreement.


You should petition the FERC then. I agree I am not promoting or defending the system. I totally understand what your saying. But this is the system in place.


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## herb09

Trust me there's been a lot of complaining and they are aware of the needed changes to protect the steelhead fishery. But sounds like you already know that.


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## MichiganStreamside

herb09 said:


> Trust me there's been a lot of complaining and they are aware of the needed changes to protect the steelhead fishery. But sounds like you already know that.


Yes Herb lots of complaining! I liked the part that our Consumers Energy boy wrote about how warm weather will make the ice dams go away and then river will flow again. After shutting down half the water for two days it all comes back last night when it is sub zero!


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## NEangler

Again was just trying to give yopu


herb09 said:


> Trust me there's been a lot of complaining and they are aware of the needed changes to protect the steelhead fishery. But sounds like you already know that.


My purpose of this talk was only to provide some information. The FACT remains that ice jams in the AU cause significant fluctuations in the rivers flow. And its absolutely Factual. Not a "FAIRY TAIL" version. 


herb09 said:


> Trust me there's been a lot of complaining and they are aware of the needed changes to protect the steelhead fishery. But sounds like you already know that.





MichiganStreamside said:


> Yes Herb lots of complaining! I liked the part that our Consumers Energy boy wrote about how warm weather will make the ice dams go away and then river will flow again. After shutting down half the water for two days it all comes back last night when it is sub zero!


LMAO you pick and choose what u want to hear. I also said its unpredictable. pressure AND temps play a factor. Like I said earlier... Im not promoting or defending anything. I


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## NEangler

NEangler said:


> Again was just trying to give yopu
> 
> My purpose of this talk was only to provide some information. The FACT remains that ice jams in the AU cause significant fluctuations in the rivers flow. And its absolutely Factual. Not a "FAIRY TAIL" version.
> 
> 
> LMAO you pick and choose what u want to hear. I also said its unpredictable. pressure AND temps play a factor. Like I said earlier... Im not promoting or defending anything. I


I simply was providing some factual information. Believe me..Don't believe me... Makes no difference.


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## MichiganStreamside

NEangler said:


> I simply was providing some factual information. Believe me..Don't believe me... Makes no difference.


Facts???? You say water will come back when it gets warm but it all comes back on a sub zero night. Operations at dams are what stops the flow and you can not hold water back for more that a couple days. Lower end is all froze now from what was done.


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## NEangler

You can thank mother nature for that one. Unfortunately she's not regulated by the FERC.


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## NEangler

Go back and look at the Alcona graph The Ice jam started breaking up yesterday about 1:00pm.


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## NEangler

MichiganStreamside said:


> Facts???? You say water will come back when it gets warm but it all comes back on a sub zero night. Operations at dams are what stops the flow and you can not hold water back for more that a couple days. Lower end is all froze now from what was done.


It is currently 11.00 am Jan 8th. Right now 4001 bridge section of river is jammed up as far as you can see....Up stream and down. I encourage any doubters of to take a drive right now a have a look for yourself.


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## NEangler

NEangler said:


> Go back and look at the Alcona graph The Ice jam started breaking up yesterday about 1:00pm.


Also... as we speak right now @ 11.:00 am the 4001 Bridge is jammed up as far as you can see. I encourage any doubters to go there now and have a look for your self.


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## MichiganStreamside

NEangler said:


> Also... as we speak right now @ 11.:00 am the 4001 Bridge is jammed up as far as you can see. I encourage any doubters to go there now and have a look for your self.


Its like that every day! But it only effect some dam below that point? Some are left alone to run stable and Foote is jerk all over the place. When its not a fairy tale ice dam it will effect all of them and cause major flooding. Keep posting like you were told to!


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## herb09

My point is ne that certain weather conditions should require an operator at the damn to adjust the flow. But as you well know consumer's doesn't want to spend the money.


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## MichiganStreamside

herb09 said:


> My point is ne that certain weather conditions should require an operator at the damn to adjust the flow. But as you well know consumer's doesn't want to spend the money.


That would require Consumers Energy to state they want to make a change to current operations. There happy with current system and don't see the problem its causing.


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## Shoeman

Aside from the freezing aspect, but back in the old days during daily generation, each fluctuation would bring fresh fish. We would follow the water down.

Then came the erosion police... Hasn't been the same since! Holes filling in, shortened spring and fall runs.... When I tell guys about 20+ fish days, they think I'm smoking weed.


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## MichiganStreamside

Shoeman said:


> Aside from the freezing aspect, but back in the old days during daily generation, each fluctuation would bring fresh fish. We would follow the water down.


Now a days in the winter they run the water at night and it drops all day long!


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## ausable_steelhead

It's a strange situation, but I will say...flows were stable when the weather was stable. It got cold and snowy...down it went. It's not like we gained temp during that bit of a warmup. I still think things are not run right...but feel this reflected the weather more.

I'll just expect layered shelf ice, and anchor ice where the level _was, _this weekend. That's par for the course on the lower Au Sable river.


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## herb09

As long as you don't plan on fishing downtown or bring your auger.


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## MichiganStreamside

herb09 said:


> As long as you don't plan on fishing downtown or bring your auger.


another night time push of high water with falling water in the morning. so ass backwards!


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## Fishndude

If weather was the cause, the Big Man would follow exactly the same pattern, as it is almost exactly latitudinal path as the Ausable, except that it flows west. Sure it's levels fluctuate in real cold weather, but not nearly as drastically as the Ausable does. Maybe the "program" was written differently for the computerized operation of the dams? 

I imagine Consumers runs the Ausable heavy at night, to offset the higher need for electric energy at night. More lights are on, more people are indoors, more heat is being run. That was their rationale back in the day, before run-of-the-river became the norm for dam operations. Except that back-in-the-day, they REALLY opened the dam at night, and dropped the flows considerably every morning, after it was light out, and the demand dropped. Of course there were a lot more fish to run the rivers back then, too. It really worked well for fishermen. 

I, too, remember following the dropping water down in the mornings. We usually started at the dam (in full flow), then down to the Scout Camp, then down to the Trestle, or the pier. Great times.


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## MichiganStreamside

Fishndude said:


> If weather was the cause, the Big Man would follow exactly the same pattern, as it is almost exactly latitudinal path as the Ausable, except that it flows west. Sure it's levels fluctuate in real cold weather, but not nearly as drastically as the Ausable does. Maybe the "program" was written differently for the computerized operation of the dams?
> 
> I imagine Consumers runs the Ausable heavy at night, to offset the higher need for electric energy at night. More lights are on, more people are indoors, more heat is being run. That was their rationale back in the day, before run-of-the-river became the norm for dam operations. Except that back-in-the-day, they REALLY opened the dam at night, and dropped the flows considerably every morning, after it was light out, and the demand dropped. Of course there were a lot more fish to run the rivers back then, too. It really worked well for fishermen.
> 
> I, too, remember following the dropping water down in the mornings. We usually started at the dam (in full flow), then down to the Scout Camp, then down to the Trestle, or the pier. Great times.


I did not think peaking and pooling was ever done in the winter month on the Au Sable?? But your right the Au Sable hydro dams are poorest run you can find! Simple solution in the winter: run foote off fonte pond and cooke dam. The whole thing would run nice and stable! When you go search out the little section of river 50 miles up stream that freezes up all winter and stick a gauge in it to run foote the intend is to run flows like they current are.


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## herb09

I'm certainly not the smartest guy in the world but it really seems like a simple solution the elevation of foot pond should not be as important in the winter months. We just need consumer's cooperation. And you would think they would want everyone to get along. All's it takes is for an operator to make an adjustment at this point.


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## Bighunther

Back to current river conditions. 

Any fresh fish coming in with this warm up?


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## Brougham

When is last time you couldn't fish below Foote in winter ??? Ice fishing a let down again this year. Think I'll change my focus.


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