# Two track rights through private land to federal land



## nyal (Aug 11, 2016)

Wondering if anyone can help. Near my property is an unmentionable trout stream (heavily stocked every year) and the stream is surrounded by federal land. There is a two-track that runs through private property leading to and then through the federal land. Is it illegal to use the two-track to access the public land?

Is this something a local CO would be able to determine?


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## usedtobeayooper (Feb 13, 2008)

Depends largely on whether there's an easement, public ownership/right of way (ROW), etc. Some similar "two tracks" are just old logging roads, in which case, no, you couldn't simply use it to drive through private property. But if it's truly a "road", even seasonal, then there is likely something written up in deed making access public.


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## nyal (Aug 11, 2016)

usedtobeayooper said:


> Depends largely on whether there's an easement, public ownership/right of way (ROW), etc. Some similar "two tracks" are just old logging roads, in which case, no, you couldn't simply use it to drive through private property. But if it's truly a "road", even seasonal, then there is likely something written up in deed making access public.


On maps it shows it as an Avenue (but I highly doubt it's maintained by the county road commission). Do you by any chance know what/where I'd have to research to find if there is a "Right of Way" for the public? I honestly don't know this and want to have the right information as I did have an altercation. If I'm in the wrong, I want to know so I can apologize. If I'm not wrong I want to be able to stand firm on my rights. 

Also, if it isn't public accessible, would this give the private owners any right to maintain it through public lands, meaning cut down healthy trees to make it wider for their own personal use and level it with heavy machinery?


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## usedtobeayooper (Feb 13, 2008)

No idea what county you're looking in, but many (if not most) have online websites with GIS maps and Property Parcel Searches. Check yours, and if it does, find the parcel number and then see if you can find a legal description. Most sites list only the basic legal description, but you might get lucky and it might detail any easements (doubtful). What you most likely need is a copy of the deed, which is a public record and available to anyone, though some counties make it harder to get by requiring you to go to their office to search for it, and they can charge you nominal search/printing fee. The deed itself should list any easements if that's how it's written up. 

You may even find that the GIS map shows a property boundary along the "road" indicating ROW belonging to the State, County, Feds, etc.


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## nyal (Aug 11, 2016)

usedtobeayooper said:


> No idea what county you're looking in, but many (if not most) have online websites with GIS maps and Property Parcel Searches. Check yours, and if it does, find the parcel number and then see if you can find a legal description. Most sites list only the basic legal description, but you might get lucky and it might detail any easements (doubtful). What you most likely need is a copy of the deed, which is a public record and available to anyone, though some counties make it harder to get by requiring you to go to their office to search for it, and they can charge you nominal search/printing fee. The deed itself should list any easements if that's how it's written up.
> 
> You may even find that the GIS map shows a property boundary along the "road" indicating ROW belonging to the State, County, Feds, etc.


Thank you for your help. I'll start with the GIS map and work from there. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond and point me in a direction for my research. Either way this works out for me I genuinely appreciate your willingness to offer some guidance to me, as I truly don't want to do something illegal but also want to be able to stand for rights (_*IF*_ I have them in this instance). If it turns out I was wrong, I owe a sincere apology to an individual and will act accordingly. Again, not to beat a dead horse, but thank you.


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## Justin (Feb 21, 2005)

nyal said:


> Thank you for your help. I'll start with the GIS map and work from there. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond and point me in a direction for my research. Either way this works out for me I genuinely appreciate your willingness to offer some guidance to me, as I truly don't want to do something illegal but also want to be able to stand for rights (_*IF*_ I have them in this instance). If it turns out I was wrong, I owe a sincere apology to an individual and will act accordingly. Again, not to beat a dead horse, but thank you.


Please report back with what you find. It's interesting.


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## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

I'm suspecting that if it's says avenue, or called that then it is a platted road. If it's platted road you are good to go, it wouldn't be trespassing. You can call your county road commission to find out if it's been platted. You see that all the time here. I know of a couple of seasonal roads in the area that people have put up logs or whatever to act as gates. I don't do it cuz I don' t need the hassle, but if one wanted to take em down and driver through, he'd be legal to do so. Check with the road commission office where you live, probably best to go into the office and check their maps.


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## usedtobeayooper (Feb 13, 2008)

The problem with the platted road issue can also be that many were platted ages ago and never actually developed. The legal framework may be in place, or may have since been abandoned but not updated on readily accessible maps like google. Also, you're dealing with generations of property owners that have never actually acknowledged their presence or even knew about them. This occurs particularly often near lakes and rivers. 

Here's just one quick example I know of. The roads are platted and even mapped on google, but if you were to go here today, there isn't a trace of many of them.


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## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

That true that there may not be a trace, one good example I can show is the Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore. If you go there to day, along M-22 you'll see all kind of two track that now have street signs. This was done by the county back when NPS was re-doing their management plan. There was a time that the country road commission staked out a road right next to the campground off Lake Michigan Road (road that runs to Platte River Mouth). I knew the road commissioner back then and the reason they did that was to mess with NPS. They acted, and actually threatened to put a road through there as it was platted to be one, yet no sign at all of a road having ever been there.


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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

Look to the County Clerks website and look for Register of Deeds (ROD). Some counties offer a search and for a small fee you can print a deed out.


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## Whitetail_hunter (Mar 14, 2012)

toto said:


> That true that there may not be a trace, one good example I can show is the Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore. If you go there to day, along M-22 you'll see all kind of two track that now have street signs. This was done by the county back when NPS was re-doing their management plan. There was a time that the country road commission staked out a road right next to the campground off Lake Michigan Road (road that runs to Platte River Mouth). I knew the road commissioner back then and the reason they did that was to mess with NPS. They acted, and actually threatened to put a road through there as it was platted to be one, yet no sign at all of a road having ever been there.



There are also fake roads on maps that exist soley to bust thief's. It isn't always the case but it certainly is a thing, simple but crafty.


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## Lucky Dog (Jul 4, 2004)

Contact your county road commission, if it has a road right of way they will know.


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## paperhead (Feb 1, 2005)

You can not cut or trim trees on an easement to get machinary in. Happened to my neighbor other (new) neighbor cut trees so he could get his farm equipt in. New neighbor had to pay for damages and value of tree loss.. only one to cut or trim trees is a utility company they have a 10ft radius around wires


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## feedinggrounds (Jul 21, 2009)

toto said:


> I'm suspecting that if it's says avenue, or called that then it is a platted road. If it's platted road you are good to go, it wouldn't be trespassing. You can call your county road commission to find out if it's been platted. You see that all the time here. I know of a couple of seasonal roads in the area that people have put up logs or whatever to act as gates. I don't do it cuz I don' t need the hassle, but if one wanted to take em down and driver through, he'd be legal to do so. Check with the road commission office where you live, probably best to go into the office and check their maps.


I own a platted road, that is also private, gated and enforced private. Gated subs have named platted roads, that are very private.


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## feedinggrounds (Jul 21, 2009)

paperhead said:


> You can not cut or trim trees on an easement to get machinary in. Happened to my neighbor other (new) neighbor cut trees so he could get his farm equipt in. New neighbor had to pay for damages and value of tree loss.. only one to cut or trim trees is a utility company they have a 10ft radius around wires


Always more to every story. That 10 foot radius includes ground access through any fence tree or gate. Easements come in many shapes, sizes and purposes. Just booted some of my power line easement, they felt that it was allowed trespass due to power line and recent maintenance clearing. The leo explained it to them, after I explained it to him. Many Leo's are very ignorant of private property rights and trespass laws.


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## feedinggrounds (Jul 21, 2009)

toto said:


> That true that there may not be a trace, one good example I can show is the Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore. If you go there to day, along M-22 you'll see all kind of two track that now have street signs. This was done by the county back when NPS was re-doing their management plan. There was a time that the country road commission staked out a road right next to the campground off Lake Michigan Road (road that runs to Platte River Mouth). I knew the road commissioner back then and the reason they did that was to mess with NPS. They acted, and actually threatened to put a road through there as it was platted to be one, yet no sign at all of a road having ever been there.


Or road commissions submit miles to the state for funding.....In my county seasonal roads are to graded spring and fall, they were paid, but never did it...and got caught.


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## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

I wouldn't doubt that the seasonal road plowing issue has gone on elsewhere too. What I'm wondering is, on a seasonal road, it can be seasonal for part of it, or all of it, and if it's part of it are they paid to plow just that part that is usable, or all of it? What I do know is if you see a seasonal road sign it is a platted road.

I know that roads are platted in subdivisions and are deemed private in some cases, but I think that is a different description of platted. What I'm talking about is platted by the county for purposes of use for a road/street at some point in the future. I will remain that way until such time as the county goes through the abandonment process. And that is exactly what happened in the Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore (SBDNL). For a little backdrop on that.

Back some years ago the SBDNL had to do their mandated management renewal. When these renewals come up it isn't just a renewal but rather a change in management ideas. In this case, along with a ton of other things, the park wanted to close roads to the public and actually wanted to close off a big section of the park to human traffic what so ever. What the park didn't think about was just how tough the Benzie County Road Commission can be, and just how hard they were willing to fight, and fight they did. They put up street signs on pretty all the "platted roads" or two tracks in Benzie County that ran through the park. As stated earlier, they also went through and staked out a road that was platted to be there, even though there was no sign of a road beforehand. The park rangers went nuts over that one, but there was nothing they could do. I will tell you that the NPS is not the favorite son of a lot of people in this area.


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