# Please don't get carried away with this CWD thing



## Beavervet

Munsterlndr said:


> I wanted to update my previous response from above, in doing some additional research that I've run across. Apparently two CWD studies have found CWD positive fawns, (University of Wyoming, Cornish) (Illinois DNR, 2005), so contrary to what I previously posted, it appears that CWD can exist in deer younger than 17 months. Neither study indicated whether it was due to lateral or maternal transmission. In both cases, it does not appear that the fawns were exhibiting clinical signs so it's unlikely that the amount of Prion accumulation had reached the point where enough damage had occurred to cause an impact. The Wyoming study appears to have used the live tonsiler tissue biopsy method to determine infection while the Illinois fawns status was determined by post-mortem examination of lymph tissue, from deer that were harvested either by hunters or planned culling.


There is also some data from Wisconsin that shows CWD infection in fawns, this was published in the Journal of Wildlife Management(70.2). As for the sublicinical level of infection from CWD in the wild, Dr. Williams published a review of CWD in Veterinary Pathology 42:530-549(2005). In it Dr. Williams indicates that *over 97% of the detected cases of CWD in free ranging populations are subclinical, which means that less than 3% of CWD positive animals are clinically sick, i.e. showing symptoms. *So lets look at Wisconsin, to date 993 out of 140,000 tested deer were positive for CWD. So then less than 30 deer in Wisconsin are actually showing symptoms of CWD infection, the rest are normal, much like many other diseases in all types of animals and people, they show no symptoms. So this is very far from the idea that the deer herd in the state of Michigan is going to suffer this huge die off that has never occurred anywhere, ever.


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## Munsterlndr

Miller's projections on the future impact of CWD on populatons do not take population density into account, assuming a constant lateral transmission rate, regardless of the population density. Also, a Wisconsin study regarding genetic variations that decrease susceptibility (Aiken, et. al.) indicates that there is a specific genotype found in the free ranging whitetail population (a possibility suggested by Sandbur6 in a previous post) that shows a significantly lower susceptibility to CWD. I highly doubt that Miller factored this potential into his modeling. Natural selection would indicate that if CWD causes population decreases among deer of a certain genotype, that the void would eventually be filled by deer lacking that susceptibility. The gloom and doom projections that Miller has predicted are unlikely to occur in my opinion.


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## Beavervet

Munsterlndr said:


> Miller's projections on the future impact of CWD on populatons do not take population density into account, assuming a constant lateral transmission rate, regardless of the population density. Also, a Wisconsin study regarding genetic variations that decrease susceptibility (Aiken, et. al.) indicates that there is a specific genotype found in the free ranging whitetail population (a possibility suggested by Sandbur6 in a previous post) that shows a significantly lower susceptibility to CWD. I highly doubt that Miller factored this potential into his modeling. Natural selection would indicate that if CWD causes population decreases among deer of a certain genotype, that the void would eventually be filled by deer lacking that susceptibility. The gloom and doom projections that Miller has predicted are unlikely to occur in my opinion.


Very true indeed, actually the only large scale deaths attributable to CWD are caused by wildlife biologists thinking they are going to reduce the disease by killing massive amounts of animals. As you can see in Dr. Millers' own state of Colorado, they stopped that two years ago
http://www.naelk.org/index.cfm?URLmap=5&articleID=316

We have lost way more deer in the state of Michigan to EHD than we will ever lose to CWD.


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## Hamilton Reef

WI - DNR says chronic wasting disease increasing in parts of state

In its first long-term analysis of how to manage chronic wasting disease in Wisconsin, the Department of Natural Resources acknowledged this week that the fatal deer disease can't be eliminated in some parts of the state.

Despite six years of work, infected areas such as western Dane and eastern Iowa counties have been growing and are "likely increasing," a new report says.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/34129689.html


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## Munsterlndr

Hamilton Reef said:


> WI - DNR says chronic wasting disease increasing in parts of state
> 
> In its first long-term analysis of how to manage chronic wasting disease in Wisconsin, the Department of Natural Resources acknowledged this week that the fatal deer disease can't be eliminated in some parts of the state.
> 
> Despite six years of work, infected areas such as western Dane and eastern Iowa counties have been growing and are "likely increasing," a new report says.
> 
> http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/34129689.html


How can that be, there is a baiting ban in place in that part of Wisconsin???? :lol:


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## 6inchtrack

Munsterlndr said:


> How can that be, there is a baiting ban in place in that part of Wisconsin???? :lol:


 Maybe they should take a chainsaw out in the winter and improve the habitat.
[/COLOR] 
Just kidding


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## swampbuck

6inchtrack said:


> Maybe they should take a chainsaw out in the winter and improve the habitat.
> 
> Just kidding


Maybe Mr. Spin could prescribe a big ol sugar beet pil..er....I mean plot, that will cure anything!!!!:lol:


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## Beavervet

Hamilton Reef said:


> WI - DNR says chronic wasting disease increasing in parts of state
> 
> In its first long-term analysis of how to manage chronic wasting disease in Wisconsin, the Department of Natural Resources acknowledged this week that the fatal deer disease can't be eliminated in some parts of the state.
> 
> Despite six years of work, infected areas such as western Dane and eastern Iowa counties have been growing and are "likely increasing," a new report says.
> 
> http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/34129689.html


I think people should visit the Wisconsin DNR website statistics per year and develop their own opinion of what is going on, because the above mentioned article is laden with similar spin to what we get out of our DNR.

http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/wildlife/whealth/issues/CWD/results.htm

From here you can search year by year and if you do the math you will see the following, and remember from Dr. Williams work less than 3% of CWD positive deer are clinicaly ill in free ranging populaitons.
2007 134 positive deer (24 out of the main 2 counties)
2006 205 positve deer (65 out of the main 2 counties)
2005 181 positive deer (26 out of the main 2 counties)
2004 145 positive deer (20 out of the main 2 counties)

So in total it sure doesnt look like it is increasing to me and we have in total 665 positive deer, so maybe 19 deer total showing any symptoms of CWD in the last 4 years and only 135 outside of Dane and Iowa counties or 4 deer in the rest of the state showing any symptoms of CWD, or about one per year statewide. Also I am not sure but I believe that many of these positives listed here are from captive farms.

So if you keep looking at the actual facts of what is going on, it is no wonder to me that the Wisconsin legislature took the action it did to curtail the large expense to the state that the DNR's CWD management became.

Compare this to the problem we have with numerous deer dying of EHD, which in many states is considered a very significant threat to populations of deer. It is only because of the lab research, not proven in the wild that you can infect deer with CWD by putting a large amount of an infected deers saliva down its throat, thus helping state DNR's advance their non baiting agenda and opening them up for federal funding, these are the real reasons we are spending all of this time getting informed about CWD, a disease that both Dr. Williams and Dr. Kreeger have plainly stated, was a disease of minor importance before the Mad Cow disease scare.


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## hunterdude772

State Sen. Jim Barcia, an avid hunter, is chairman of the hunting, fishing and outdoor recreation committee in the state Senate. He said he prefers not to take aim at animals feeding over food piles but he sympathizes with hunters who choose to hunt that way. 

The Bay City Democrat worries that the baiting ban will hurt not only individual hunters' odds, but the hunting industry itself.
"I do expect a significant decline in the sale of hunting licenses next year as a result of the ban," he said.

Barcia and State Rep. Joel Sheltrown, D-West Branch, plan to convene a meeting in January to review results of data collected during this year's hunt and push for changes if necessary. Increased testing of harvested deer for CWD will be part of the occasion.

"Chronic wasting disease has been in wildlife in Colorado for 40 years, yet Colorado remains a top hunting destination," Barcia said.

http://blog.mlive.com/bctimes/2008/11/as_the_firearms_hunting_opener.html


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## scott kavanaugh

I think there is a whole paranoia phenomenon being created by the CWD thing here in michigan on MS. We have existing members including moderators accusing new members of being banned existing members. Simply because their new and are passionate about the ban or baiting instantly. 

Has it dawned on any of you folks that the ban on baiting supposedly caused by CWD has affected way more than 50% of Michigans hunters. You have farmers, legislators, store owners, etc. all comming here possibly new, passionate and mad. You have people that flat just think this was the last bad decision they want to stand by and idley watch, that never have baited.

Now there is also the posibility that these fine folks don't really believe at all that these people their accusing were ever existing members. That they are only accusing these new members because their opinions don't fit their views on baiting, CWD, and the ban.:idea:


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## north-bound

hunterdude772 said:


> State Sen. Jim Barcia, an avid hunter, is chairman of the hunting, fishing and outdoor recreation committee in the state Senate. He said he prefers not to take aim at animals feeding over food piles but he sympathizes with hunters who choose to hunt that way.
> 
> The Bay City Democrat worries that the baiting ban will hurt not only individual hunters' odds, but the hunting industry itself.
> "I do expect a significant decline in the sale of hunting licenses next year as a result of the ban," he said.
> 
> Barcia and State Rep. Joel Sheltrown, D-West Branch, plan to convene a meeting in January to review results of data collected during this year's hunt and push for changes if necessary. Increased testing of harvested deer for CWD will be part of the occasion.
> 
> "Chronic wasting disease has been in wildlife in Colorado for 40 years, yet Colorado remains a top hunting destination," Barcia said.
> 
> http://blog.mlive.com/bctimes/2008/11/as_the_firearms_hunting_opener.html


 :yikes: What somebody gets it? About time. Thanks for posting that and the link.


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## 6inchtrack

I hope that they write legislation so that the veto process can be applied if the seven little dwarves of the NRC ever again vote rules that effect do many people and the economy of Michigan.


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## hunterdude772

The following resolution was adopted today by the Michigan House of Representatives. It urges the director of the DNR to lift the baiting ban on the bulk of the Lower Peninsula for 2008. In a nod to those who have expressed a number of concerns about baiting it also recommends that the NRC hold public hearings on those concerns and determine whether to continue to allow baiting in the future. While the resolution is non-binding on the DNR, it is very rare for the Legislature to exercise this type of formal oversight authority over a state agency. The Legislature will be following this issue closely in developing future policy. The resolution was adopted today on a voice vote in the 110 member House without opposition. It reads: Reps. Mayes, Sheltrown, Moore, Booher, Horn, Hammon, Hammel, Stahl, Rick Jones, Espinoza, Casperson, Brown, Stakoe, Accavitti, Caul, Condino, Dean, Gonzales, Hildenbrand, Huizenga, Robert Jones, Lemmons, Lindberg, Nitz, Palmer, Pastor, Polidori, Proos, Spade and Leland offered the following concurrent resolution:

House Concurrent Resolution No. 96. 

A concurrent resolution to urge the Director of the Michigan Department of Natural Resources and the Natural Resources Commission to lift the ban on deer baiting in the Lower Peninsula and to take certain actions to protect the health of the state's deer herd.

Whereas, The state of Michigan adopted the Michigan Surveillance and Response Plan for Chronic Wasting Disease in 2002. The plan calls for an immediate ban on baiting and supplemental feeding of cervids in a peninsula of this state in which chronic wasting disease (CWD) is found; and

Whereas, In August 2008, chronic wasting disease was confirmed in a three-year old privately owned white tail deer at a captive cervid ranch in Kent County. Pursuant to the Michigan Surveillance and Response Plan for Chronic Wasting Disease, the Director of the Michigan Department of Natural Resources immediately issued an interim order banning the baiting and feeding of deer in Michigan's Lower Peninsula; and

Whereas, It is now known that all of the other deer at the Kent County ranch have tested negative for chronic wasting disease. The epidemiology investigation of the infected deer has not shown the presence of chronic wasting disease at related captive cervid operations, and chronic wasting disease has not been shown to be present in Michigan's free ranging deer population; and

Whereas, Broad baiting bans have not been shown to be an effective means to control chronic wasting disease, leading states such as Wisconsin to not implement broad baiting bans to stop the spread of the disease; and

Whereas, A broad ban on baiting in Michigan's Lower Peninsula is anticipated to result in lowered participation in the 2008 archery and firearms deer seasons, resulting in a decreased rate of harvest; and
Whereas, Many of the deer management units in Michigan, particularly in the southern Lower Peninsula, are already over-populated; and

Whereas, A decreased rate of harvest would result in greater deer density in the wild deer population and an increased rate of motorized vehicle collisions with deer with the potential for the loss of human life; and

Whereas, A ban on baiting throughout the entire Lower Peninsula for 2008 would result in millions of dollars of economic cost to farmers and retailers and would result in a wide ranging loss of employment and the ruin of some small markets, stores, and farms; now, therefore, be it

Resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate concurring), That we urge the Director of the Michigan Department of Natural Resources to lift the ban on the baiting of deer in Michigan's entire Lower Peninsula without delay and to apply a ban on the baiting of deer to the Kent County CWD surveillance zone, those areas in close proximity to the zone as is deemed reasonable to control the spread of chronic wasting disease in central west Michigan, and those areas in which baiting is currently banned as part of the effort to control the spread of bovine tuberculosis; and be it further

Resolved, That we request the Michigan Natural Resources Commission to conduct public hearings on the baiting of deer and elk in Michigan and to use sound scientific management to issue rules regarding baiting, taking into account the management, economic, and social impact of baiting and its effects on the health of the state's deer herd; and be it further

Resolved, That copies of this resolution be transmitted to the Governor of Michigan, the Director of the Michigan Department of Natural Resources, and the Michigan Natural Resources Commission.


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## hunterdude772

State Sen. James Barcia, D-Bay City, plus state Reps. Joel Sheltrown, D-West Branch, and Jeff Mayes, D-Bay City, sponsored similar resolutions in the Michigan legislature this week to urge state officials to rescind a ban enacted after a deer at a private ranch in Kent County tested positive last month for chronic wasting disease.

The politicians contend state officials overreacted.

"We've got people who are going to go bankrupt because of this," Sheltrown said.

"I feel that it's probably not a wise decision based on what's happened in other states. Why would we try to do the same thing that doesn't work?" Sheltrown said.

http://www.record-eagle.com/outdoors/local_story_263095016.html


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## scott kavanaugh

hunterdude772 said:


> State Sen. James Barcia, D-Bay City, plus state Reps. Joel Sheltrown, D-West Branch, and Jeff Mayes, D-Bay City, sponsored similar resolutions in the Michigan legislature this week to urge state officials to rescind a ban enacted after a deer at a private ranch in Kent County tested positive last month for chronic wasting disease.
> 
> The politicians contend state officials overreacted.
> 
> "We've got people who are going to go bankrupt because of this," Sheltrown said.
> 
> "I feel that it's probably not a wise decision based on what's happened in other states. Why would we try to do the same thing that doesn't work?" Sheltrown said.
> 
> http://www.record-eagle.com/outdoors/local_story_263095016.html


There was a time I didn't like Sheltrown, I thought he was just a grandstander. I mean even more than most politicians. Talking to him and seeing his actions on these issue however, is starting to lead me to believe there's some substance to the Rep.


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