# cutting permits



## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

Just ran into our local bear guy at the gas station and he mentioned that the DNR may cut Red Oak by 50% and Chippewa by 42%.... As a hunter with 5 pnts and hoping to draw in either of these areas I am wondering if anyone has any info..


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## srconnell22 (Aug 27, 2007)

sbooy42 said:


> Just ran into our local bear guy at the gas station and he mentioned that the DNR may cut Red Oak by 50% and Chippewa by 42%.... As a hunter with 5 pnts and hoping to draw in either of these areas I am wondering if anyone has any info..


I'm sure you've already seen this, but if you haven't maybe it will help. I'm sure these guys will update this thread as soon as new info is available. 

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3994079#post3994079


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

There is no way to predict what the NRC may do.....And as far as that goes the MDNR has no idea how many bear there are, They do not monitor bear density.


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

nope hadnt seen that
thanks guys


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## TVCJohn (Nov 30, 2005)

swampbuck said:


> There is no way to predict what the NRC may do.....And as far as that goes the MDNR has no idea how many bear there are, They do not monitor bear density.


I can't speak for all the DNR offices but I know the biologists at ours in TVC go out, sets baits, wires and cams to do DNA and picture collections. I went down and volunteered to help them this year. I got a good reception for that so hopefully it will happen.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

At the January 21, 2012 Bear Users Group meeting MDNR did report they would like to increase harvest tags for the Baldwin BMU in 2012. If memory serves me they have dedicated a good bit of horsepower into a recent bear population survey in the Baldwin BMU. TVCJohn, not sure what area you are in, but hope my post is helpful to you.


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## TVCJohn (Nov 30, 2005)

Rooster Cogburn said:


> At the January 21, 2012 Bear Users Group meeting MDNR did report they would like to increase harvest tags for the Baldwin BMU in 2012. If memory serves me they have dedicated a good bit of horsepower into a recent bear population survey in the Baldwin BMU. TVCJohn, not sure what area you are in, but hope my post is helpful to you.


Rooster,

I live in TVC....aka the airport designator for Traverse City. I was hunting Baldwin "North". 

I hope they do bump up the numbers in Baldwin. As I said in another thread, I sent an email off to Lansing DNR sharing my experience in Baldwin last year and requesting/recommending they increase the tag limit. I gave our local biologists a CD with all of my bear cam pics. I had maybe something like 300-400 pics consisting of I think 6-8 different bears on my baits. The two baits getting hit by the bears were maybe 3 miles apart. What that tells me about the area I was hunting is the bear density seemed good. I know there were bears there I didn't get pics of as the hound guy I spoke to described one they got cam pics of and I didn't. This was right across the two-track from where I was hunting. My baits were maybe 20-25 minutes from the Traverse City town limits. Dan's (Thunder River) outfit is across the highway from me in Red Oak maybe 20 minutes away from my baits and he has alot of bears as you seen in his pics he posted up. 

The DNR office is about 15 minutes away. I'll stop in and ask them what they're hearing. I need to go there anyway about some local boat ramp maintenance issues.

John


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

John, the information I posted on MDNR's recommendation to increase tags in the Baldwin BMU for 2012 is accurate. Adam Bump was conveying the Wildlife Division's official position. The NRC can accept it or change it as they have oversight.

If you study MDNR's previous Bear Management Plans (available online) as well as other black bear studies from other states it will help understand...bears are known to travel as much as 25 miles in a 24 hour period feeding. They will feed at multiple baits giving the impression there are large numbers in an area. Three miles to a bear is about like you or me walking down to the mail box. 

The Baldwin BMU...it is carefully managed and the wildlife folks put a fair amount of horsepower in that BMU. Big difference compared to the Red Oak....which is going to take years to increase bear numbers.


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## TVCJohn (Nov 30, 2005)

Rooster,

Once the baits became consistantly active after the brown down, these bears stick around the bait site unless run off. I was getting pics of the same bears at the same place each day. Plus after examing the pics each day one can recognize each bear. That's why I was able to figure out how many different bears were working the baits. With only 50 tags in Baldwin and talking to a hound hunter, I'm feeling pretty confident I had the only baits in that area. 


John


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## Bearboy (Feb 4, 2009)

Using the genetic method(hair snares) proved the red oak was down. In order to "Stabilize" the new lower number without reducing the population even more the tags would have to cut 53% in 2012. That is according to the MDNR. Seeing bears at a bear bait does not have anything to do with a population. I just means you have a pile of food and a few bears are eating it.


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## Musket (May 11, 2009)

I agree with you on that Bearboy. Simply counting the number of bears you might or might not see at any given bait pile in any unit is not a good indication of the true numbers.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Roger that Bearboy and Musket. I don't think I could afford the amount of bear bait it would take to keep 6 or 8 bears so well fed that they would hang around my bait sites and not go wandering off, visiting a few more.


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## TVCJohn (Nov 30, 2005)

Bearboy said:


> Using the genetic method(hair snares) proved the red oak was down. In order to "Stabilize" the new lower number without reducing the population even more the tags would have to cut 53% in 2012. That is according to the MDNR. *Seeing bears at a bear bait does not have anything to do with a population. I just means you have a pile of food and a few bears are eating it.*


Density and population are two different things. The number of different bears hitting your bait suggests the density for that area you're set up. It does not indicate the density or numbers for the whole unit. Think about it.....if I had just small number of different bears hitting my baits in that area that would suggest a low density. Conversely having a large number of different bears hitting in the same bait area would suggest a higher density in that area where my baits are at. If the DNR tracked what the hunters were seeing and where they were set up at, they could collect enough raw data to come up with a statistical picture of the size of the herd. That is one method some state DNR or F&G's Depts use. I have filled out those surveys asking what you saw, where and when. The MDNR does this for the deer when you check them in. Same for Maryland where I just came from. It was a mandatory deer check in for each deer shot and some people were selected to fill out an end of the year survey. 

I went down to the local DNR office this morning to talk to the biologists. They were out responding to a turkey case. A local turkey got hit by a car and someone had the injured turkey in a box. All in a day's work.....


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## srconnell22 (Aug 27, 2007)

This may help give you an idea: 

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/Bear_Regs_-_WCO_5_of_2012_376714_7.pdf


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## shephard1993 (Aug 5, 2009)

swampbuck said:


> There is no way to predict what the NRC may do.....And as far as that goes the MDNR has no idea how many bear there are, They do not monitor bear density.


 
You could not be more wrong by saying the DNR dosent try to monitor bear numbers. I have seen there model charts for every unit, and they are quite complex. I am not saying there predictions are correct, but I can sassure you they are trying to figure populations. You take there man power, and there money, and tell me how many bear are in say Gogebic county (Good luck being even sorta close). The bottom line is the DNR is now reconising they made a mistake numbers are way down in most units, and measures are going to be taken to try to correct the problem.


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