# More CWD-Montcalm Co



## Pinefarm2015 (Nov 29, 2015)

Recall this discussion from earlier and look at the maps. 
https://www.michigan-sportsman.com/...-bait-ban-spread-cwd-in-west-michigan.585524/

It's quite possible that CWD has been there since the original 2008 case, given the more recent CWD discovery. Lifting the 2008 bait ban may have done irreparable harm. 

There isn't going to be an expansion of the bait ban until January, as it's too late to do now, as the season is open and shelves are stocked. Hunters won't get the word in time for a ban for this year. 

While the discussion of expanding APR's is over, we need to go back to the original discussion of banning baiting, statewide. But this time, thru legislative action, not thru a weak knee NRC that may reverse their own ban. 

Hunter groups need to contact their state reps and call for a statewide bait ban. 

Au revoir, hopefully under better circumstances


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## jps (Jan 6, 2005)

sureshot006 said:


> Lets say you have a 30x30 yard food plot or you spread bait over 30x30 yards. Are they completely different?


I still have to see someone who does a 30 x 30 YARDS bait pile. But if someone did, maybe there is not much of a difference.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

jps said:


> Ok. Fair enough. Maybe we do need a state-wide regulation on minimum plot sizes.
> 
> But still a 1/2 acre plot does not compare to a 10' by 10' bait pile in terms of its potential to spread any disease.


No limit is imposed on the size of the bait site. Area and volume and minimum and maximum respectively.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

jps said:


> I still have to see someone who does a 30 x 30 YARDS bait pile. But if someone did, maybe there is not much of a difference.


Bait PILE is a different thing to me. Anyone who literally dumps a pile of bait is probably too lazy to spread it out.


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## jps (Jan 6, 2005)

sureshot006 said:


> Bait PILE is a different thing to me. Anyone who literally dumps a pile of bait is probably too lazy to spread it out.


Exactly my thoughts.


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

jps said:


> Ok. Fair enough. Maybe we do need a state-wide regulation on minimum plot sizes.
> 
> But still a 1/2 acre plot does not compare to a 10' by 10' bait pile in terms of its potential to spread any disease.


What they need to do is start random sampling of urine from stores testing of feed produced for deer and testing of scavengers .This thing is hopping all around the country and its not from baiting or food plots .


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

I've seen bait "sites" that are easily 200x100 yards. To me that's no different than a food plot and _probably_ less of an issue than a food plot because once the bait is gone, its gone. Food plots are longer lasting.


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## Walt Donaldson (Feb 23, 2015)

Don't start the food plot vs bait pile crap........the reality is that nobody really knows exactly what the culprit is, could be multiple things as mentioned. Vigorous testing and hunter cooperation is what is needed at this time. Thank You!

Who ordered the CWD Burger with extra cheese?!


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

jps said:


> Baiting and Food plots are two COMPLETELY different things from the POW of spreading disease.
> 
> Banning baiting, albeit not a "final solution" to the problem, can contribute significantly to slowing down the spread.


Not in the case of CWD, which can be taken up by the roots of plants and passed through foliage. And CWD can not be destroyed except with extremely high temps, possibly not even an incinerator. It is not a living organism, it doesn't die.

If you are planting food plots to a attract deer to a specific location. You are increasing the risk of transmission. PERIOD! And if that plot becomes infected, it is forever. 

When bait is gone that spot looses it's attractiveness. Unlike a food plot.

It may not be easy to regulate them, like it is with bait. But if you are planting plots or fruit trees in or near an infected area, or using minerals. Or attempting to attract and concentrate deer my any means. You are the problem.

You may be able to hide behind the law, But you have NO moral high ground. NONE!

Farm fields are generally larger, less concentrated. And are necessary for human survival. Food plots are only to benefit the hunter. The deer do not need them, and neither do you.


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## jps (Jan 6, 2005)

Thirty pointer said:


> What they need to do is start random sampling of urine from stores testing of feed produced for deer and testing of scavengers .This thing is hopping all around the country and its not from baiting or food plots .


Like with any disease, there is usually no silver bullet. But integrated management is needed.

Stopping baiting helps. Foodplots? with some provisions, probably not much.

Stop the distribution of urine and other animal products? definitely helps. I would imagine that the animals used in enclosures to produce the urine have to be tested, but perhaps they are not. They should. Testing the bottled stuff in the stores??? mmm.... as a sample strategy may or may not work as good as going to the production facility and testing the animals.

And they definitely need to keep asking the hunters to bring individuals for testing. Not only in the affected areas, but in the surrounding areas as well. And I think they are doing that.

it is not an easy thing to deal with and DNR has experts working on this and they are collaborating with other institutions. I think they know what they are doing, even if it is inconvenient to my hunting-butchering practices (I hunt just outside of the core zone, in 419).


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Interesting and unfortunate


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## Bucman (Jun 29, 2016)

Walt Donaldson said:


> Don't start the food plot vs bait pile crap........the reality is that nobody really knows exactly what the culprit is, could be multiple things as mentioned. Vigorous testing and hunter cooperation is what is needed at this time. Thank You!
> 
> Who ordered the CWD Burger with extra cheese?!


Agreed! We need the root cause of spreading the disease. Deer feeding next to and in the same place is normal. Bait or food plots where does it end! No farming or acorns or apples trees. Bottom line we need to know the root cause!


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## jps (Jan 6, 2005)

swampbuck said:


> Not in the case of CWD, which can be taken up by the roots of plants and passed through foliage. And CWD can not be destroyed except with extremely high temps, possibly not even an incinerator. It is not a living organism, it doesn't die.
> 
> If you are planting food plots to a attract deer to a specific location. You are increasing the risk of transmission. PERIOD! And if that plot becomes infected, it is forever.
> 
> ...


Let's not lose our patience over this, please.

I will say it again: it may be that we are talking about a certain foodplot size. But if you plant. say, 10 acres, 20, 40 acres... that is not much different than planting 10, 20, 40 acres of corn. NO? So to ban plots would be ineffective given that there is another 20 acre plot of corn for harvest (or silage) 200 yards down the road.

The banning of baiting is due to the typical baiting practices we have in MI. 

I think perhaps the only positive legacy of these diseases in the MI deer herd one day will be a generation of hunters used to hunt without bait piles or "bait plots" (a new concept for me!).


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Devils advocate...
If I understand it correctly, some deer are genetically resistant to CWD. The only way to produce genetically resistant deer is to have them breed. IF these two things are true, isn't it better to let it take its course? We can slow it down, but it is here to stay.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

jps said:


> I would imagine that the animals used in enclosures to produce the urine have to be tested, but perhaps they are not. They should. Testing the bottled stuff in the stores??? mmm.... as a sample strategy may or may not work as good as going to the production facility and testing the animals.


There's not a feasible way to test living cervids for CWD.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

sureshot006 said:


> Devils advocate...
> If I understand it correctly, some deer are genetically resistant to CWD. The only way to produce genetically resistant deer is to have them breed. IF these two things are true, isn't it better to let it take its course? We can slow it down, but it is here to stay.


To the best of my knowledge no deer is immune to CWD. Once exposed, they're walking the green mile.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

QDMAMAN said:


> To the best of my knowledge no deer is immune to CWD. Once exposed, they're walking the green mile.


Thanks. I thought I had read something in the past about resistance (not immunity).


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## otcarcher (Dec 11, 2015)

swampbuck said:


> Not in the case of CWD, which can be taken up by the roots of plants and passed through foliage. And CWD can not be destroyed except with extremely high temps, possibly not even an incinerator. It is not a living organism, it doesn't die.
> 
> If you are planting food plots to a attract deer to a specific location. You are increasing the risk of transmission. PERIOD! And if that plot becomes infected, it is forever.
> 
> ...


Good. Maybe you could start working for something, rather than against everything. Propose to ban it all. Plots, bait, urine, gone. Propose away Carl.


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## Dish7 (Apr 2, 2017)

swampbuck said:


> It may not be easy to regulate them, like it is with bait. But if you are planting plots or fruit trees in or near an infected area, or using minerals. Or attempting to attract and concentrate deer my any means. You are the problem.
> 
> You may be able to hide behind the law, But you have NO moral high ground. NONE!


That's it!!! No garden for me next year. Those sob deer are always in there together eating next to each other.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

So maybe those two positive heads found on the Amish bait pile really were free range, they didn't find any in the high fence. And it was claimed that they were free range...hmmm


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

swampbuck said:


> And it was claimed that they were free range...hmmm


Who, with any knowledge or authority, made that claim?


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## NovemberWhitetailz (Oct 10, 2008)

I've always enjoyed the game "whack a mole" at the fair as a kid.... I guess we can continue doing that with CWD where ever it pops up. Just slaughtering the deer herd where it's found is just not going to cut it I don't think. It's just going to allow it to spread worse than it already is in the Southern Lower and before too long it will be out of control. Just my opinion


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## jps (Jan 6, 2005)

QDMAMAN said:


> There's not a feasible way to test living cervids for CWD.


Thanks for the correction. I thought there was a method based on tonsil biopsies. Perhaps it is not very sensitive or feasible to implement.

Is there a good way to test urine for the prion, then?


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

QDMAMAN said:


> Who, with any knowledge or authority, made that claim?


I think it was the ranch owner. Because the heads were from a pile that came from both free range and fenced. And weren't tagged. If they were from that fence, why was no indication of CWD found there ?


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

jps said:


> Thanks for the correction. I thought there was a method based on tonsil biopsies. Perhaps it is not very sensitive or feasible to implement.
> 
> Is there a good way to test urine for the prion, then?


No known way to test for prions. The only test now is looking at the damage to the brain, post mortem.


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## beer and nuts (Jan 2, 2001)

Mineral sites that every "big time" land manager(you know the guys that manage their 20 acres and have a subscription to that deer management magazine) has on their property YEARROUND has WAAAAAYYY more CWD spreading potential then a bait pile that last 7 days(most people hunt Nov 15th and and bait days prior and hunt the first 3 days!).

Baiting is the scapegoat of the CWD scare. Not the "kill" plots, the sugar beet plots(leave in ground till the ripen in late fall and not harvest them), same with turnips/radish plots.


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## Corey K (Dec 11, 2009)

Hold on this may or may not be the stupidest thing you've heard....

Deer carcass/bones disposal seem to be a problem here. The blame is sometimes pointed at Out of State hunters bringing deer back here, also it's now an issue here with locally killed deer remains possibly being disposed improperly or untested? 

I'm sure the cost is insane but, what about disposal sites at DNR checkstations/offices with dumpsters? To be later burned or whatever is proper.

Or at least cooperation with some of the larger scale butchering locations for disposal?

Maybe this has been gone over many times and really doesn't help the cause at all, just a thought.

From my knowledge it seems common for people to throw remains in a ditch or public land parking lot than the garabage can, woodstove, etc.


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## jps (Jan 6, 2005)

FREEPOP said:


> No known way to test for prions. The only test now is looking at the damage to the brain, post mortem.


http://www.mdpi.com/2076-0817/6/3/35/htm


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## 357Maximum (Nov 1, 2015)

We are all in the same boat despite our truly minor differences of opinion on small management details. Please stop *&*&^%$ arguing about little details. The only questions I have personally is am I putting my family at risk by hunting deer and eating the meat? It is above me and it is below me, what are the odds that it is here? My tags are bought and I will keep each deer separate in the freezer til the results come back this year. Next year I do not know what I will do. It will take one positive in my neighborhood to make that decision as easy as falling off a wet moss covered log however. I will not potentially harm my family for a little meat and recreation I do not care how big or how small the antlers are, none of them are worth potential health risks. You will have to forgive me if I do not trust the CDC's opinion on such things I guess.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

It has been shown to be transmissible to primates, so your concern may be justified.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

jps said:


> http://www.mdpi.com/2076-0817/6/3/35/htm


At one time I was very up to date on CWD because I traveled to Colorado to hunt, so that's what I'm basing my info on.

It surely is more complicated than a breathalyzer and I don't have time at the moment to read all of that.


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## slabstar (Feb 25, 2009)

swampbuck said:


> It has been shown to be transmissible to primates, so your concern may be justified.


Didn't the Canadian or Ontario government just issue possible health risk issues associated with cwd and consuming meat?

Baiting has been around for a long time. Only had tb issues. 
Food plots have been all the rage the last decade, and viola, cwd pops up.... hmm 

I could careless if baiting is banned. I don't think it's going to help. Deer are social creatures, licking branches, scrapes, water holes, just soooo many ways to transmit, banning bait seems futile.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

I am opposed to any law does not include all known (and controllable) vectors.


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

HUBBHUNTER2 said:


> I've always enjoyed the game "whack a mole" at the fair as a kid.... I guess we can continue doing that with CWD where ever it pops up. Just slaughtering the deer herd where it's found is just not going to cut it I don't think. It's just going to allow it to spread worse than it already is in the Southern Lower and before too long it will be out of control. Just my opinion


I agree there is no pattern it pops up randomly something they are missing .It may be too late it may be out of control (Pandora's box ) I look for it to slowly show up in many new locations


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

slabstar said:


> Didn't the Canadian or Ontario government just issue possible health risk issues associated with cwd and consuming meat?
> 
> Baiting has been around for a long time. Only had tb issues.
> Food plots have been all the rage the last decade, and viola, cwd pops up.... hmm
> ...


Your right one licking branch could potentially infect 100 deer or more it spreads sporadically .They are missing something that may be obvious


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## slabstar (Feb 25, 2009)

Based on the macaque study, Health Canada issued an updated CWD risk advisory.

"While extensive disease surveillance in Canada and elsewhere has not provided any direct evidence that CWD has infected humans, the potential for CWD to be transmitted to humans cannot be excluded," the advisory states. "In exercising precaution, (Health Canada) continues to advocate that the most prudent approach is to consider that CWD has the potential to infect humans."

From the World Health Organization to the federal Centers for Disease Control to state agencies, health officials are united in their recommendations to avoid eating meat from a CWD-positive animal.


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## slabstar (Feb 25, 2009)

Based on the macaque study, Health Canada issued an updated CWD risk advisory.

"While extensive disease surveillance in Canada and elsewhere has not provided any direct evidence that CWD has infected humans, the potential for CWD to be transmitted to humans cannot be excluded," the advisory states. "In exercising precaution, (Health Canada) continues to advocate that the most prudent approach is to consider that CWD has the potential to infect humans."

From the World Health Organization to the federal Centers for Disease Control to state agencies, health officials are united in their recommendations to avoid eating meat from a CWD-positive animal.


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

sureshot006 said:


> I've seen bait "sites" that are easily 200x100 yards.


Calling bulshit. Pics or it didn't happen.


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

sureshot006 said:


> Devils advocate...
> If I understand it correctly, some deer are genetically resistant to CWD.


Source please.


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## Dish7 (Apr 2, 2017)

farmlegend said:


> Calling bulshit. Pics or it didn't happen.


Yep!:lol:


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## otcarcher (Dec 11, 2015)

plugger said:


> I have never heard the results of DNA testing and have not gotten any responses to inquires. Somebody knows and they aren't talking. Why?


Because the investigation goes well beyond the imediate vicinity, or even county.


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

otcarcher said:


> Because the investigation goes well beyond the imediate vicinity, or even county.


 Care to explain?


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## otcarcher (Dec 11, 2015)

plugger said:


> Care to explain?


Nope


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## jr28schalm (Mar 16, 2006)

Seems like land owners vs


otcarcher said:


> Nope


Realy


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Cool, we can whip up some interesting conspiracy theories.


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## Pinefarm2015 (Nov 29, 2015)

swampbuck said:


> Nice story Pinefarm. But Unlike bTB, A deers level of health has no effect on CWD. It doesn't discriminate.
> 
> The purpose of the practices you promote, is to attract and hold (concentrate) deer. To prevent other hunters killing them.
> 
> ...


Who said habitat improvements stave off CWD by making deer healthier? Habitat improvements can help mitigate CWD by reducing contact. 

And I believe you meant to say that it's MDNR that is promoting habitat improvements. 
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10363_10856_10905-340642--,00.html


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## Pinefarm2015 (Nov 29, 2015)

MDNR improvements in CWD zone-
https://www.michigan-sportsman.com/...bitat-creating-food-plots-in-cwd-zone.567050/


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## moose1 (Dec 31, 2013)

what will be the long term effect on the deer herd? Will the ultimately lead to extinction of cervids or is this only a nuisance to the deer herd? Have we done any studies to examine this? Colorado has had this for nearly 50 years how are they doing?


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## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

mbrewer said:


> What you said needed to be said. Thanks.


You are correct...But Ehd will probably kill a 100 times the deer in MI than cwd will in our lifetime and that to has no cure..Which one is more concerning to you...


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## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

mbrewer said:


> A more telling indicator will be staying tuned to the NRC.


Yeah but that don't fit Swampys agenda unfortunately..


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## Walt Donaldson (Feb 23, 2015)

sniper said:


> You are correct...But Ehd will probably kill a 100 times the deer in MI than cwd will in our lifetime and that to has no cure..Which one is more concerning to you...


The more concerning one for myself might be the one that could potentially kill me.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

sniper said:


> Yeah but that don't fit Swampys agenda unfortunately..


Sure it does, I sent an email to 3 of them yesterday.


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

FREEPOP said:


> Cool, we can whip up some interesting conspiracy theories.


 There is a lot of conspiracy theories going around. This may be the straw that ended the DNR's effort to stem CWD, I think they may have given up. I was at one time sure we would see an end to baiting and pressure applied to reduce food plots, along with a scorched earth policy in CWD zones. I also expected to see a push by the DNR to reduce deer density across the board. The efforts seem half hearted at best.


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## mbrewer (Aug 16, 2014)

sniper said:


> You are correct...But Ehd will probably kill a 100 times the deer in MI than cwd will in our lifetime and that to has no cure..Which one is more concerning to you...


The one that takes it's shoes off and stays forever. 

The one that through ingestion might/maybe/can jump the species barrier and infect me, you or our families with a fatal disease.

That one.


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## otcarcher (Dec 11, 2015)

plugger said:


> There is a lot of conspiracy theories going around. This may be the straw that ended the DNR's effort to stem CWD, I think they may have given up. I was at one time sure we would see an end to baiting and pressure applied to reduce food plots, along with a scorched earth policy in CWD zones. I also expected to see a push by the DNR to reduce deer density across the board. The efforts seem half hearted at best.


I agree. 

Please don't take my unwillingness to share details as some sort of conspiracy theory though. It's not. The investigation has been large. There's no need to contribute or possibly perpetuate more fake news. There's enough of that going around already.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

otcarcher said:


> I agree.
> 
> Please don't take my unwillingness to share details as some sort of conspiracy theory though. It's not. The investigation has been large. There's no need to contribute or possibly perpetuate more fake news. There's enough of that going around already.


But we have to seize the opportunity when it presents itself.


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## motdean (Oct 23, 2011)

otcarcher said:


> I agree.
> 
> Please don't take my unwillingness to share details as some sort of conspiracy theory though. It's not. The investigation has been large. There's no need to contribute or possibly perpetuate more fake news. There's enough of that going around already.


I can respect you not sharing what you know, but out of curiosity, how are you involved with the investigation?...if you can say.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

angry angler said:


> Just a blue collar truck driver lol. Not enough scandalous activities in my life to be a politician.



I bet you have a massive carbon footprint though!


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

Any of you concerned citizens watching the live feed from the CWD Symposium with me?
http://www.michigan.gov/emergingdiseases/0,4579,7-186-76711_78204-431899--,00.html


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## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

Walt Donaldson said:


> The more concerning one for myself might be the one that could potentially kill me.


Walt I wouldn't go swimming in any dried up ponds either!...Ehd has its unknowns also...If there wasn't, it wouldn't exist....Along with any disease...Pick your poison..


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## Walt Donaldson (Feb 23, 2015)

Lumberman said:


> Bummer. I guess we can hang onto the low prevalence rate so far.
> 
> Ban foodplots Lol. That seems like the answer.
> 
> So far nothing has worked in any of the other states. All these proposed solutions have been tried and failed.


Along with the EXTREMELY low prevalence rate so far, we can also find some solace in the fact that we kill a lot of deer here in Michigan, young ones in-particular.


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## kenn1320 (Aug 6, 2004)

Newaygo1 said:


> Meridan Township has a Lot of AG Land, Not sure where some get their Info from my Brother Lives in Meridan Twp right across the street is a very AG Filed as there is along Grand River on Both Sides west of Zimmer Road. There is a Lot of AG Land there! Maybe some need to know before They Post Miss Info! Sure there is some Residential areas but there is al a lot of AG Land Drive East on Sherwood and there is AG there as well! As well North along Zimmer
> 
> Some Might Want to Check Before they POST!
> Bad Info is just another thing here Oh Wait is the Internet Post Good Info or Don't Post Please!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Newaygi1


As Pinefarm eluded to in his post, how do we know crops grown in this township arent infected and being used in other parts of the state as bait?


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## HUBBHUNTER (Aug 8, 2007)

Sorry if I missed it but does anyone have a list of check stations in the Ionia, Montcalm, Gratiot, Clinton counties?

I've never taken a deer to a check station but I think it's a good time to start...


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## Walt Donaldson (Feb 23, 2015)

HUBBHUNTER said:


> Sorry if I missed it but does anyone have a list of check stations in the Ionia, Montcalm, Gratiot, Clinton counties?
> 
> I've never taken a deer to a check station but I think it's a good time to start...


Good question HH! Does this help?

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/cwd_management_zone_map_498609_7.pdf


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## HUBBHUNTER (Aug 8, 2007)

Walt Donaldson said:


> Good question HH! Does this help?
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/cwd_management_zone_map_498609_7.pdf


It does Walt, thanks. I see there is one in Riley township, do you know if there is a bar in the back of the check station?


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## Walt Donaldson (Feb 23, 2015)

HUBBHUNTER said:


> It does Walt, thanks. I see there is one in Riley township, do you know if there is a bar in the back of the check station?


If there's not, there should be! I just stored the information in my phone so in the event I get the B1G1, I'll just dial em up and head on over! If either of us knock one down, let's just plan on meeting over there and having a beer or two in the parking lot.


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## Pinefarm2015 (Nov 29, 2015)

kenn1320 said:


> As Pinefarm eluded to in his post, how do we know crops grown in this township arent infected and being used in other parts of the state as bait?


Right. The same with those brown corn blocks that are very popular. There are Wisconsin companies that make and sell that stuff.

To be fair, any food plot seed originating from known CWD area's shouldn't be allowed to be sold either.


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## Ol Mucky (May 8, 2006)

slabstar said:


> From the World Health Organization to the federal Centers for Disease Control to state agencies, health officials are united in their recommendations to avoid eating meat from a CWD-positive animal.


We all need a home test kit then, otherwise........its gonna get eaten


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## DowningAir (Oct 8, 2009)

HUBBHUNTER said:


> It does Walt, thanks. I see there is one in Riley township, do you know if there is a bar in the back of the check station?












Strategically located, I'm sure...


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## poz (Nov 12, 2004)

Looks like it's popping up everywhere there are a lot of QDMA co_ops


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## poz (Nov 12, 2004)

Also Arkansas allows unlimited baiting in areas with chronic waste disease with the thought that the deer will be healthier and we'll be able to fight off the disease.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Lumberman said:


> Bummer. I guess we can hang onto the low prevalence rate so far.
> 
> Ban foodplots Lol. That seems like the answer.
> 
> So far nothing has worked in any of the other states. All these proposed solutions have been tried and failed.


It's really not about banning food plots, it's about banning one potential vector, while protecting another. Many are quick to jump on the bait ban wagon, some for nefarious reasons. While being in complete denial of the potential risk's associated with their own practices. 

I guess it's just the direction that society has gone. It will only lead us down the path of more division, just like antler restrictions have.


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## bwlacy (Jul 10, 2012)

I own land in DMU 359. They still have the restricted combo tag and doe tags are still the same price as anywhere else. If they really want more and younger deer killed they should have removed the restricted tag and made doe tags a reduced cost. They have done that in the past, and apparently are in other DMU's. I don't really understand the dnr's wishy washy stance and failure to act. I don't know why they have to wait until January to make changes. If it's important enough then just make it happen.


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## bigbuckmiddaugh (Oct 16, 2005)

Thought they took the head


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## HUBBHUNTER (Aug 8, 2007)

bigbuckmiddaugh said:


> Thought they took the head


Are you asking what the procedure is when taking a deer to a check station? Good question.

Does, whatever, take what you want..
But what about a buck you intend to have a shoulder mount done? Do you drop the cape with head off? The fleshed out skull?


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## bwlacy (Jul 10, 2012)

HUBBHUNTER said:


> Are you asking what the procedure is when taking a deer to a check station? Good question.
> 
> Does, whatever, take what you want..
> But what about a buck you intend to have a shoulder mount done? Do you drop the cape with head off? The fleshed out skull?


I've been wondering that also. What if you want to get it mounted? How do they handle that? I may have to call one of the check stations and see what they say.


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## bigbuckmiddaugh (Oct 16, 2005)

Yes I'm asking


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Well, if you cut off the skull cap, everything that touches spinal and brain fluid will be contaminated and there is virtually no way to clean it off. Bleach an incineration won't do it.

They recommend bleach but it won't work..

http://cwd-info.org/hunting-faq/


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

They discussed decontamination in the lab a bit on the podcast. Even they don't have a 100% way to do it.

Even the knife you use to gut the deer could be permanently contaminated.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

swampbuck said:


> Even the knife you use to gut the deer could be permanently contaminated.


You mean I gotta gut my deer with a disposable plastic spork now?


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## Joe Archer (Mar 29, 2000)

The point being missed is that the culprit in the spread of CWD is not just nose to nose contact. The main vector in transmission is CONTAMINATED SOIL!! That is why it starts off slow, and builds up steam. Food plots increase carrying capacity, and become vats of contamination over time. Reduce pooulations, to limit contaminaton and limit huck age structure. Sorry, but that is the only anwer, and obviously not happening.
<----<<<


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## spikekilla (Jan 6, 2009)

Pinefarm2015 said:


> Nope. Have you read nothing from all the biologists, posted here over the years?
> 
> MDNR studied this very thing. Do I need to repost for the 100th time?
> 
> ...


If the MDNR is promoting food plots, can I expect it to be lawful to plant a restricted size on public ground in the future ?


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Ohh, and Pinefarm. As far as things not working out for us....enjoy your statewide antler restrictions! LMAO


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

spikekilla said:


> If the MDNR is promoting food plots, can I expect it to be lawful to plant a restricted size on public ground in the future ?


No, but maybe the DNR will. Then when you hit up your favorite food plot on Nov 15, it'll look like a Clemson football game.


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## otcarcher (Dec 11, 2015)

Joe Archer said:


> The point being missed is that the culprit in the spread of CWD is not just nose to nose contact. The main vector in transmission is CONTAMINATED SOIL!! That is why it starts off slow, and builds up steam. Food plots increase carrying capacity, and become vats of contamination over time. Reduce pooulations, to limit contaminaton and limit huck age structure. Sorry, but that is the only anwer, and obviously not happening.
> <----<<<


No, Joe, the main vector in a new outbreak like we have is not contaminated soil. Soil contamination is a late stage vector problem caused by increased prion shedding into the environment, not an initial one.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

otcarcher said:


> No, Joe, the main vector in a new outbreak like we have is not contaminated soil. Soil contamination is a late stage vector problem, not an initial one.


With the broad range of positives one has to wonder what stage we are in.


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## otcarcher (Dec 11, 2015)

FREEPOP said:


> With the broad range of positives one has to wonder what stage we are in.


Put down the bias goggles, look at Wisconsin's CWD history, be honest with us, and tell us what "stage" you think we are in. SMH.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

I hope I am wrong, but I think the numbers are about to go up sharply when testing is expanded. We really haven't done much testing outside the zone.

And we also have to consider the long incubation period. If there are more they should start showing more visibly noticeable clinical signs.


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## Joe Archer (Mar 29, 2000)

otcarcher said:


> No, Joe, the main vector in a new outbreak like we have is not contaminated soil. Soil contamination is a late stage vector problem caused by increased prion shedding into the environment, not an initial one.


Contaminated soil and buck dispersal is what needs to be limited... RIGHT NOW!!! But guess what? It aint happening!
<----<<<


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## otcarcher (Dec 11, 2015)

Joe Archer said:


> Contaminated soil and buck dispersal is what needs to be limited... RIGHT NOW!!! But guess what? It aint happening!
> <----<<<


Considering buck to doe harvest ratio in the Core, what you propose is being done. Apparently, it's not working, but yet the continued yearling buck demagoguery continues. Short-sighted and intellectually dishonest.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

It becomes more clear every day, who the stewards of the resource actually are.


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## otcarcher (Dec 11, 2015)

swampbuck said:


> It becomes more clear every day, who the stewards of the resource actually are.


Sure is, and it isn't the ones that quit like you. SMH.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

swampbuck said:


> I hope I am wrong, but I think the numbers are about to go up sharply when testing is expanded. *We really haven't done much testing outside the zone.*
> 
> And we also have to consider the long incubation period. If there are more they should start showing more visibly noticeable clinical signs.



34,000+ isn't much?


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## Joe Archer (Mar 29, 2000)

otcarcher said:


> Considering buck to doe harvest ratio in the Core, what you propose is being done. Apparently, it's not working, but yet the continued yearling buck demagoguery continues. Short-sighted and intellectually dishonest.


Have you hunted in the core? Witnessed populations? Killed and eaten deer from there? I have, and when you can answer yes, we might have something to discussn
<----<<<


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Joe Archer said:


> The point being missed is that the culprit in the spread of CWD is not just nose to nose contact. The main vector in transmission is CONTAMINATED SOIL!! That is why it starts off slow, and builds up steam. Food plots increase carrying capacity, and become vats of contamination over time. Reduce pooulations, to limit contaminaton and limit huck age structure. Sorry, but that is the only anwer, and obviously not happening.
> <----<<<


 Contaminated soil is one potential vector but not the main issue. Weren't the first 7 deer found with cwd related to each other? Family groups and direct contact are believed to be the number one form of transmission.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

Joe Archer said:


> Have you hunted in the core? Witnessed populations? Killed and eaten deer from there? I have, and when you can answer yes, we might have something to discussn
> <----<<<



So Joe, is that the prerequisite to having an opinion on CWD in DMU333. If so I don't want you, or any one else having an opinion on management decisions in my DMU unless they've actually hunted it. 
If you were half as involved in the conversation on a REAL level (not on the MSF chat room) you'd have a little more cred bruh!


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

DirtySteve said:


> Contaminated soil is one potential vector but not the main issue. Weren't the first 7 deer found with cwd related to each other? Family groups and direct contact are believed to be the number one form of transmission.



The first 9 were related and #10 is waiting on DNA results, as well as POSITIVE confirmation from the Ames Iowa lab.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

Sadly, and unbelievably IMO, the 2008 CWD captive deer had zero DNA testing done and apparently there are no known tissue samples from that deer that can be tested. In this day and age I find that incredibly negligent. 
The latest "positive" was found relatively close to the 2008 captive cervid facility.


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## Ken (Dec 6, 2000)

If the first deer in 333 that showed symptoms went undiscovered, would any of the other nine cases have been found with the limited testing that would have been done in that area? Highly unlikely. 
Or, would more testing have been done in areas where positive captive animals were found?


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Joe Archer said:


> Contaminated soil and buck dispersal is what needs to be limited... RIGHT NOW!!! But guess what? It aint happening!
> <----<<<


Since the first 9 deer were related I would think targeting family
Groups would be the key. I think that was the reasoning behind using sharp shooters in the beginning. Chad stewart stated in the symposium that hunters often would shoot one deer and allow others to run off in a family group. Sharp shooters were more inclined to get several in the group which was key to preventing spread.


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## jr28schalm (Mar 16, 2006)

ridgewalker said:


> That is an excellent question.


The real question is what county doesn't have it. Could the dnr afford to lose half it's hunters in a year or 2


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## ridgewalker (Jun 24, 2008)

motdean said:


> My guess would be as long as it has a valid tag on it, why not?


If the tag is with the antlers, how does the legal shooter prove that the body was tagged. He can't and that might prove to be a troublesome situation with any DNR officer.



Botiz said:


> Thanks, I would think the same but wanted to ask to avoid causing any issue when I showed up with a couple heads that were tagged by someone else. No good deed goes unpunished as they say.
> 
> I'll call one of the stations and ask to be sure before doing so.


I have taken deer into processors with legal tags from other hunters that had been in camp without problem. I have also donated legally tagged deer of my own to other hunters and they have had some of them checked without a problem. 



jr28schalm said:


> Man looks like I'm done eatting deer, test or no test..Looking for the closest food bank that will take a deer.. thc is only thing I want changing my brain


The land, water, and air is filled with toxins that can cause cancer. While prion disease is a concern, I have a much greater fear of cancer from that massive pollution that we all have to deal with in this state and most others. Hospital infections are more dangerous than prions at this time. I do not plan on getting out of this world alive!


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## motdean (Oct 23, 2011)

jr28schalm said:


> Man looks like I'm done eatting deer, test or no test..Looking for the closest food bank that will take a deer.. thc is only thing I want changing my brain


Who would have guessed????

:evilsmile


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