# Grand River Salmon



## limpinglogan

I went out last weekend...I saw no sign of Salmon...I did catch a 41" pike on an inline spinner. I am hoping these rains coming get the salmon started. I am looking for tips for catching Salmon in the GR River...I am not really interested in fishing 6th St.

I am planning on throwing inline spinners, rapalas and Hot n/ Tots into holes and trib mouths starting this weekend. 

I might back troll hot n' tots...and I might try floating spawn sacs under a bobber through hooles and creek mouths...

Any tips? 

Last year I only witnessed a small two week run in the middle of September...I am hoping to find the fish this year and catch a few.

-Logan


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## diztortion

I don't even bother looking for fish until the 2nd or 3rd week of September. It's just not productive.


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## no lead

i would be willing to bet there is a king at 6th st right know.


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## diztortion

no lead said:


> i would be willing to bet there is a king at 6th st right know.


Oh, I've seen salmon in the river before Labor day. They usually look like they're choking.


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## Fishbone

> i would be willing to bet there is a king at 6th st right know.


The effects derived from wading jacket pockets full of cheap beer, may have caused slight perception alteration. :lol:


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## no lead

diztortion said:


> Oh, I've seen salmon in the river before Labor day. They usually look like they're choking.


on yarn.


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## Trout King

Its going to be a few weeks. That is if they show up, the king run sucked last year. If the DNR would go back to putting fish in the river upstream instead of Grand Haven net pens, there would be a better run. I was curious to know where the fish were, so I found them, and it wasn't hard....common sense


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## Multispeciestamer

limpinglogan said:


> I went out last weekend...I saw no sign of Salmon...I did catch a 41" pike on an inline spinner. I am hoping these rains coming get the salmon started. I am looking for tips for catching Salmon in the GR River...I am not really interested in fishing 6th St.
> 
> I am planning on throwing inline spinners, rapalas and Hot n/ Tots into holes and trib mouths starting this weekend.
> 
> I might back troll hot n' tots...and I might try floating spawn sacs under a bobber through hooles and creek mouths...
> 
> Any tips?
> 
> Last year I only witnessed a small two week run in the middle of September...I am hoping to find the fish this year and catch a few.
> 
> -Logan


sounds like you got the right idea just keep going at in nothing better then a fresh chrome king and no one else around to get in the way. By the time the crowds start poking around in 2nd-3rd week of September the kings are already dark, except a few fresh fish here and there.


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## trapperray

try looking for the late runs at the end of oct.first of nov. I catch a lot of salmon this time of year when looking for the silver devils<steel head>.I use hot-n-tots,rapala's and home made french spinners or in line spinners.gold on gold or silver on gold for the spinners,purple,orange,green,blue and pearl are my top colors.I fish the M & the W mostly.


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## samsteel

Trout King said:


> If the DNR would go back to putting fish in the river upstream instead of Grand Haven net pens, there would be a better run.


now they are still stocking Kings in the Grand at Riverside Park correct? It's just about 1/2 what they were doing years ago if I am reading the DNR stocking program site correctly? Anyone feel free to correct me, as I am actually trying to figure out what the change was. Looks like 70,000 were planted this past May and the May before. Earlier in the decade, looks like they were planting twice as many.


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## samsteel

Multispeciestamer said:


> nothing better then a fresh chrome king


 


what about a Lake Trout?


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## Multispeciestamer

samsteel said:


> what about a Lake Trout?


also you missed the other part of my quote "nothing better then a fresh chrome king and no one else around"

well yes a 20-30 pound lake would be better, but the system is not manged to raise such a fish in a river. Seen one big laker last fall that went over 20 pounds landed by a guy drifting a wobble glow, vary long tug of war in the current.


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## samsteel

just stop


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## thousandcasts

samsteel said:


> just stop






> If the DNR would go back to putting fish in the river upstream instead of Grand Haven net pens, there would be a better run.


Last year might've been an anomoly. They've been doing the net pen thing at just about every port for at least the last 15 years or so. It's helped with salmon survival tremendously. Maybe those fish smolted late, maybe something else, but the net pens have been used with great success for many years now. 

For anyone who enjoys river salmon fishing and hasn't been seeing the numbers they used to in any river, there's two evils at work here. 

1) They've cut the plants not once, but twice now.

2) That stupid five fish limit. 

Both of those are a rape job to river fishermen that is so unpleasant that it would make a prison shower gang bang seem like a church ice cream social in comparison. 

"But, Hutch--the size of the fish was getting smaller!" 

So what? They were healthy. I'd rather catch 20 or more 12-14lb fish in a day rather than sit there and catch five 16lb fish in a day. 

Not that I'm a DNR basher--not by any stretch. I'm merely disagreeing with #1 and # 2 listed above.


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## Trout King

> So what? They were healthy. I'd rather catch 20 or more 12-14lb fish in a day rather than sit there and catch five 16lb fish in a day.
> 
> 
> Read more at Michigan-Sportsman.com: Grand River Salmon - The Michigan Sportsman Forums http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=346866#ixzz0yK0Qj6w5


Amen! I'd rather catch a few more than catch a pound or two bigger. Who cares how big they are on average, there will still be some big fish, and some smaller. 

Salmon in the Grand is a joke, the Grand fish are mostly dark (unedible to me) by the time they hit GR...don't get me wrong I like catching them and you can get the freshies occasionally before they get stale or blow upstream for a couple days when new runs come in, but for the most part 6st isn't my style much for salmon. I'd rather drive up north 2-3 times a year and get my fill on clean, silver fish, with little pressure than fish at 6th St for 2 weeks to catch 10-15 fish. Agreed on the 5 fish limit, who the hell wants to drag, clean and care for 5 salmon? I see it a lot though. Oh well I'm b****ing a lot about fish I use just to get a fix on until the chromers come. Good salmon season to all....Pry see ya out there anyway once or twice (hard not to go since I'm in GR every day).

BTW who knows...this year could be a good run, but I'm doubting it.

TC: So you don't agree that putting fish upstream, maybe even in a couple tribs would not help the river runs and survival in general? I see wild fish every year doing there thing while fishing steel. I'd think there would be potential for even more natural fish, though year classes would differ in survival rates. To me it seems like everyone would get there shot at them (river guys that can't afford to buy a boat and make runs on the big lake or harbors every week). Oh well I guess pocket books talk more than anything now, especially in this state. It makes sense the way they do it because it makes money off of the chart
ers and big lake guys. Not too worried, if I need a quick King fix it ain't hard to find them and get them to slap a spinner or swallow a chunk, but would be nice to actually be able to drive 6 miles from my house and be able to catch a couple everyday even if they are too dark for my consumption. 

BRING ON THE STEEL, only a couple weeks now!


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## thousandcasts

Trout King said:


> Amen! I'd rather catch a few more than catch a pound or two bigger. Who cares how big they are on average, there will still be some big fish, and some smaller.
> 
> Salmon in the Grand is a joke, the Grand fish are mostly dark (unedible to me) by the time they hit GR...don't get me wrong I like catching them and you can get the freshies occasionally before they get stale or blow upstream for a couple days when new runs come in, but for the most part 6st isn't my style much for salmon. I'd rather drive up north 2-3 times a year and get my fill on clean, silver fish, with little pressure than fish at 6th St for 2 weeks to catch 10-15 fish. Agreed on the 5 fish limit, who the hell wants to drag, clean and care for 5 salmon? I see it a lot though. Oh well I'm b****ing a lot about fish I use just to get a fix on until the chromers come. Good salmon season to all....Pry see ya out there anyway once or twice (hard not to go since I'm in GR every day).
> 
> BTW who knows...this year could be a good run, but I'm doubting it.
> 
> TC: So you don't agree that putting fish upstream, maybe even in a couple tribs would not help the river runs and survival in general? I see wild fish every year doing there thing while fishing steel. I'd think there would be potential for even more natural fish, though year classes would differ in survival rates. To me it seems like everyone would get there shot at them (river guys that can't afford to buy a boat and make runs on the big lake or harbors every week). Oh well I guess pocket books talk more than anything now, especially in this state. It makes sense the way they do it because it makes money off of the chart
> ers and big lake guys. Not too worried, if I need a quick King fix it ain't hard to find them and get them to slap a spinner or swallow a chunk, but would be nice to actually be able to drive 6 miles from my house and be able to catch a couple everyday even if they are too dark for my consumption.
> 
> BRING ON THE STEEL, only a couple weeks now!


You might see salmon spawning, but the bulk of them are not wild fish. They did their studies on the grand and it was something like less than 5% were wild fish. Talking about salmon, of course. Up north, it's more like 75% are wild, give or take a few %. 

As for planting upriver, I don't know. They do plant some up there, but the net pens have worked very well for many years now--along every river. I don't think the net pens are the problem.


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## thousandcasts

Further thought:

Back when I used to care about the salmon fishing in the Grand, I asked the biologist (I believe it was Ms. Harrington) why they didn't move some salmon plants to the Rogue and her reply was that they manage the Rogue for steelhead and depending on conditions, they get enough salmon straying that it provides a fishery there. I would assume the same thing applies for upriver as well--makes sense to me. 

Like I said though, it's the numbers. Up north, they can cut plants but you have plenty of wild fish where the difference is less significant. The Grand doesn't have that natural reproduction to suppliment the two cuts they've made there, period. So what you see is what you get. Again, it doesn't help that the limit was raised to five fish and on top of that, you've got everybody and their brother staging some sort of "Pro/Am" tournament at every port all summer long. 

Speaking of that, it makes me flat out laugh out loud when someone's considered a "salmon pro" in those tourney's. What--it takes an extra special skill set to stare at rod tips and then grab a rod when the clicker goes "zzzzzzzzz?" :lol:


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## Spanky

Trout King said:


> Amen! I'd rather catch a few more than catch a pound or two bigger. Who cares how big they are on average, there will still be some big fish, and some smaller.
> 
> Salmon in the Grand is a joke, the Grand fish are mostly dark (unedible to me) by the time they hit GR...don't get me wrong I like catching them and you can get the freshies occasionally before they get stale or blow upstream for a couple days when new runs come in, but for the most part 6st isn't my style much for salmon. I'd rather drive up north 2-3 times a year and get my fill on clean, silver fish, with little pressure than fish at 6th St for 2 weeks to catch 10-15 fish. Agreed on the 5 fish limit, who the hell wants to drag, clean and care for 5 salmon? I see it a lot though. Oh well I'm b****ing a lot about fish I use just to get a fix on until the chromers come. Good salmon season to all....Pry see ya out there anyway once or twice (hard not to go since I'm in GR every day).
> 
> BTW who knows...this year could be a good run, but I'm doubting it.
> 
> TC: So you don't agree that putting fish upstream, maybe even in a couple tribs would not help the river runs and survival in general? I see wild fish every year doing there thing while fishing steel. I'd think there would be potential for even more natural fish, though year classes would differ in survival rates. To me it seems like everyone would get there shot at them (river guys that can't afford to buy a boat and make runs on the big lake or harbors every week). Oh well I guess pocket books talk more than anything now, especially in this state. It makes sense the way they do it because it makes money off of the chart
> ers and big lake guys. Not too worried, if I need a quick King fix it ain't hard to find them and get them to slap a spinner or swallow a chunk, but would be nice to actually be able to drive 6 miles from my house and be able to catch a couple everyday even if they are too dark for my consumption.
> 
> BRING ON THE STEEL, only a couple weeks now!


Upstream plants were NOT productive so they were limited or cut all together. Makes great food for the pike and walleyes though.

I agree with hutch about the success of the net pens, and the sportsmens groups that maintain the pens and baby sit the fish.

If it wasn't for the net pens and the natural reproduction of the northern lake ports, we would have very few salmon in Lk. Mich.

I don't agree with steve about his #1 and #2 above. The 5 fish rule change isn't hurting the salmon pop in rivers. Its all relative. If the lakes have tons of salmon, people will catch tons of them, if the lakes don't, people won't.

Back in the late 80's, salmon plants were cut because of BKD. Anyone remember this? The BKD ran its course, the department began rearing only healthy fish, instead of as many as possible. The fishery rebounded,and the salmon fishery was reborn. In the late 90's the salmon fishing was very good, and it was determined that natural repro was heavier than originally thought. Cuts again were made to adjust the forage/predator ratio as alewife numbers plummeted. After more than 2 cuts in 2 decades, the salmon fishing is still very good in Lake Michigan.We even have an awesome spring king fishery that was unheard of in the 80's and 90's.
Many folks have their theories and ideas. That is not a bad thing.I prefer to leave our fishery management to the folks that have been doing it for over 160 yrs.


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## Spanky

The "pro-am" factor isn't valid either. Those same boats would usually be fishing on the weekends anyways. The fact that they are organized in a tourney doesn't affect the fishery one bit.

I am a river angler too, but I am not going to skew the data to make "my" cause more important than the lake anglers.It is selfish to do so.

The salmon are in the lakes feeding and offering sport for 3-4 years before they head into the rivers for a few weeks to spawn and then die and rot.They are a resource that needs to be managed from egg take to harvest.The collected data is used to decide which ports/rivers get how many fish.Angler input is very helpful in determining
angling pressure and harvest numbers.If anglers do not want to give the info, the data cannot be collected.


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## Sparky23

I have a few buddy's that charter out of South Haven and one out of the MO, you cant tell me that the 5 fish limit doesnt effect what we see in the river, because since they went to it they have nearly double there yearly take of salmon on the big lake. I agree that the 5 fish limit is overkill, its the dnre tryin to cut the numbers back more then what the stockings cuts already have, imo at least.


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## golfpercy5

Correct me if i'm wrong as I don't know jack about fish biology. I thought the reasoning behind the 5 fish limit was to ensure no major drop in baitfish like what happened in Huron a few years ago which could jeopardize the entire fishery. TBH I'm not a big fan of the 5 fish limit myself even though I prefer big lake fishing to river fishing (love both). Catching a 3 man limit in the big water is ALOT of fish. 30 salmon fillets is alot of fish for anybody!


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## STEINFISHSKI

golfpercy5 said:


> Correct me if i'm wrong as I don't know jack about fish biology. I thought the reasoning behind the 5 fish limit was to ensure no major drop in baitfish like what happened in Huron a few years ago which could jeopardize the entire fishery.


The MI 3 fish limit was enacted during the BKD crisis as a temporary measure. Once things got back to "normal" it was supposed to go back to 5 fish limit, but it was not done. All other states like IN, IL, and WI had the 5 fish limit all along, and MI finally changed the regulations to allow our anglers to keep 5 as well. Scientific studies showed that changing the limit back to 5 would not impact the fishery. Social issues and political issues disagreed with the science, but fortunately MI let science dictate the ruling. 

The fish stocking levels were lowered due to natural production and to protect baitfish numbers somewhat.


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## golfpercy5

Good to know, learned something today lol. Thanks Steinfishski, your posts are always very informative and spot on.


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## STEINFISHSKI

Sparky23 said:


> I have a few buddy's that charter out of South Haven and one out of the MO, you cant tell me that the 5 fish limit doesnt effect what we see in the river, because since they went to it they have nearly double there yearly take of salmon on the big lake. I agree that the 5 fish limit is overkill, its the dnre tryin to cut the numbers back more then what the stockings cuts already have, imo at least.


Interestingly the MI charter industry vehemently opposed the raising of the limit back from 3 to 5 fish. Why should the charters rely on the state deciding mandatory limits for all instead of limiting their catch to what their customers can actually use? Mostly an ego thing IMO, every charter wants to be the first in with a limit every day instead of deciding up front to catch only what their clients actually can use.


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## TSS Caddis

STEINFISHSKI said:


> Interestingly the MI charter industry vehemently opposed the raising of the limit back from 3 to 5 fish. Why should the charters rely on the state deciding mandatory limits for all instead of limiting their catch to what their customers can actually use? Mostly an ego thing IMO, every charter wants to be the first in with a limit every day instead of deciding up front to catch only what their clients actually can use.


I would imagine they opposed it since they would rather a quick limit and leave instead of putting a full day burning gas trying for 5 fish per sport. If the limit is 5, I'd imagine you'd be hard pressed to tell your sport your leaving after 3 per person.


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## thousandcasts

STEINFISHSKI said:


> Interestingly the MI charter industry vehemently opposed the raising of the limit back from 3 to 5 fish. Why should the charters rely on the state deciding mandatory limits for all instead of limiting their catch to what their customers can actually use? Mostly an ego thing IMO, every charter wants to be the first in with a limit every day instead of deciding up front to catch only what their clients actually can use.


Well, along the same lines, why can't these tourney guys implement a three fish per angler rule instead of boasting up about how many tons of fish were sent to a foodbank, dogfood maker or where ever they send most of those fish? 

Guys, let me be clear here, I'm not some uninformed f***ing idiot here. So spare me the rhetoric about why they do this or why they do that. I've been fishing kings both in the rivers and on the big lake for over 20 years and I've been picking the brains of every biologist I can, reading, studying, etc as much as I can during that time. 

I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND why the plants were cut. I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND why they raised the limit back to five. There's no lack of understanding on my part in any portion of something brought up in these debates. However, the cuts and the limit raising was done as a preventative measure under the premise of what could potentially happen, not what is actually happening. There's no crash and there's no shortage of baitfish out there. So, if they're gonna have a five fish limit, then put the plants back to the level they were before the second cut. I'll give 'em the first cut as something that was needed because of the natural repro, but the second cut is the one I disagree with. 

Again, I understand all this stuff completely. I simply disagree with some of it and don't have any problem with anyone who agrees to disagree with me. It's not world ending stuff for me one way or the other and I just state my opinion when I disagree with certain things. I consider one of our biologists a friend and I'll vocally disagree with him all day long about that second cut in the plants, but at the end of the day it's his call and I respect his position as a biologist and more importantly, someone I call a friend. No biggie. 

And yes, the Michigan Steelheaders, have been absolutely 100% instrumental in the success of the net pens. A lot of those guys have spent a lot of time being involved with them. I was on the board of a chapter, back in the day, and I tried like hell to get our guys on board with that, but most of those guys would rather talk about walleye fishing on lake Erie rather than Michigan Steelheading or getting involved with salmon net pens. :lol: That chapter vanished many years ago. So, while I may loathe the fact that the steelheaders were a driving force behind getting that five fish limit back, I do give them a huge pat on the back for their efforts with the net pens.


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## STEINFISHSKI

thousandcasts said:


> Well, along the same lines, why can't these tourney guys implement a three fish per angler rule instead of boasting up about how many tons of fish were sent to a foodbank, dogfood maker or where ever they send most of those fish?


With tournament fishing participation down for every tournament, the tournament committees have actually reduced the number of weighable fish to get more people to participate and enacted no cull rules to protect the fishery. They have reduced the allowed catch on the am side to 10 fish per day. With team of 4 guys that's 2.5 fish per angler, per day, already less than the 3 fish per angler you suggested. Even the pros weigh only 12 fish, and most of these teams are 6-8 anglers so they are only catching 2 or less fish per angler in this division. I don't believe that the tournaments impact the fishery at all since most would be fishing anyway.


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## thousandcasts

STEINFISHSKI said:


> With tournament fishing participation down for every tournament, the tournament committees have actually reduced the number of weighable fish to get more people to participate and enacted no cull rules to protect the fishery. They have reduced the allowed catch on the am side to 10 fish per day. With team of 4 guys that's 2.5 fish per angler, per day, already less than the 3 fish per angler you suggested. Even the pros weigh only 12 fish, and most of these teams are 6-8 anglers so they are only catching 2 or less fish per angler in this division. I don't believe that the tournaments impact the fishery at all since most would be fishing anyway.


I tend to focus more on the biological stuff out there, so admittedly, I've never paid any attention to the rules of those tourneys in any detail, so I'm pleased to hear that and can say that I guess I was wrong about the impact of the tourneys. See? Just because I might disagree about this or that, I'm still easy to get along with at least 40 or 50% of the time and will admit when I'm wrong about something. :lol: 

But, I still don't agree with the 2nd cut in plants. I understand why they did it, they wanted to avoid another crash like the BKD crash, but...it wasn't happening and it's still not gonna happen from what I've seen. Plus, there should never be such a thing as "to many salmon." That's like saying someone gets "to much sex."


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## Trout King

> I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND why the plants were cut. I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND why they raised the limit back to five. There's no lack of understanding on my part in any portion of something brought up in these debates. However, the cuts and the limit raising was done as a preventative measure under the premise of what could potentially happen, not what is actually happening. There's no crash and there's no shortage of baitfish out there. So, if they're gonna have a five fish limit, then put the plants back to the level they were before the second cut. I'll give 'em the first cut as something that was needed because of the natural repro, but the second cut is the one I disagree with.


Reliable sources from the big lake have told me the same thing. The baitfish are out there still. Yeah, they may not be there in the numbers that they once were, but there is still plenty to feed a population of salmon. Had a buddy of mine which fishes the lake regularly tell me about the amount of baitfish he has been marking this year...from his talk you would say he is crazy, but why doubt it? It's all a cycle, and nature can manage itself. The salmon are still doing there original job in Lake MIchigan- Eat Alewives. 


If it were up to me I'd say forget stocking the Grand with Chinooks and dump an extra 50,000 steelhead in instead of 75,000 of Kings (or whatever the budget difference is between steelhead smolts and salmon parr, steelhead I believe are much more expensive (?)), and let the big lake guys have there net pens with salmon.


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## ausable_steelhead

> There's no crash and there's no shortage of baitfish out there


I wouldn't exactly put it like that. From my experiences fishing Lake Michigan waters the last few years, the salmon have been pretty small on average. Most fish seem to be 10-13lbs, with lots under that, and some over. All the fish up here so far have been smaller. I landed a couple fresh males today, and the larger one was definitely skinny.

Lake Michigan has had near record low alewife biomass for the last 3 years I believe. The salmon size has went down accordingly. While it most likely won't get wiped out like Lake Huron, things are probably gonna change. Big fish are what, 22-23lbs or so lately? That should tell you something.....


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## Spanky

So if you think they cut the chinook plants because of the threat of damaging the forage base too much, and then the forage remains in decent shape ( not good shape by a very long shot) then you should be thankful they did cut the plants.It seems like they knew what they were doing. The Huron anglers and charter groups were told the same thing would happen to them a dozen years ago, they resisted and demanded that the plants continue reguardless( after all, they are all experts, and the DNRE is clueless):lol:. I think we seen what happened. Then they had the stones to blame the forage crash on the department.

Hutch, I know you think you understand everything there is to understand about this issue, but you don't.
for example, the cuts were made because of many existing red flags in the salmon management model. Low forage base was just one of many reasons for the cuts in plants, especially fingerlings( not in net pens).

The information is available if you use the library feature on the DNRE website. Every year there are salmon workshops all over the lower peninsula. They are organized by the Seagrant folks, the DNRE, and the USGS. The costs to attend are reasonable and they are very very informative.I would suggest anyone who questions the fisheries manager's decisions, to take the time, make the effort to gain this knowledge. This is all for public participation, and input.

Like Tim said, the tourneys are not everyone gets their limit. Its a boat limit of 10-12 fish, no release of legal fish, and when the limit of 10 or 12 is obtained, its over and the boats are done fishing.As far as giving the fish to food banks or other organizations, many of us believe it goes to very good causes.We even make donations in the St Joe league events for similar needy organizations.


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## limpinglogan

No sign of Salmon yet...maybe this rain will get them started...if any one sees any let me know...I am ready!


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## Multispeciestamer

Salmon are in the rivers, keep looking and just keep casting .


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## Oldgrandman

Sparky23 said:


> I have a few buddy's that charter out of South Haven and one out of the MO, you cant tell me that the 5 fish limit doesnt effect what we see in the river, because since they went to it they have nearly double there yearly take of salmon on the big lake. I agree that the 5 fish limit is overkill, its the dnre tryin to cut the numbers back more then what the stockings cuts already have, imo at least.


During the previous five fish limit there were loads of fish in the river because of the loads of fish in the lake. With the recent increase the salmon numbers were already down so it isn't causing the reduction we see still see.
Stein has related that by now though. Lower the limit, who cares. That alone will not bring more fish to the rivers.
This is salmon crash number 3 for me, I am sure it will rebound again. Maybe not to the pre early 1990-'s level but be patient...


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## nitrojoe

I went down to the 6th street dam last night and did not see any salmon jumping through the ladder, but did see one guy had a fish on his stringer out in the middle of the river. Talked to another guy that said a few were caught in the morning. Hundreds of carp though in the fish ladder, i think i could of walked across their backs!


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## Big Brown

9 for 18 in a NW river yesterday. Quit ya bitchin about stocking and go get em!! there are plenty of fish in the rivers now regardless of what you keyboard kings think!!!


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## no lead

Big Brown said:


> 9 for 18 in a NW river yesterday. Quit ya bitchin about stocking and go get em!! there are plenty of fish in the rivers now regardless of what you keyboard kings think!!!


this guy i like!

post # 420.

coincidence?

probably.


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## Multispeciestamer

thousandcasts said:


> Well, along the same lines, why can't these tourney guys implement a three fish per angler rule instead of boasting up about how many tons of fish were sent to a foodbank, dogfood maker or where ever they send most of those fish?
> 
> Guys, let me be clear here, I'm not some uninformed f***ing idiot here. So spare me the rhetoric about why they do this or why they do that. I've been fishing kings both in the rivers and on the big lake for over 20 years and I've been picking the brains of every biologist I can, reading, studying, etc as much as I can during that time.
> 
> I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND why the plants were cut. I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND why they raised the limit back to five. There's no lack of understanding on my part in any portion of something brought up in these debates. However, the cuts and the limit raising was done as a preventative measure under the premise of what could potentially happen, not what is actually happening. There's no crash and there's no shortage of baitfish out there. So, if they're gonna have a five fish limit, then put the plants back to the level they were before the second cut. I'll give 'em the first cut as something that was needed because of the natural repro, but the second cut is the one I disagree with.
> 
> Again, I understand all this stuff completely. I simply disagree with some of it and don't have any problem with anyone who agrees to disagree with me. It's not world ending stuff for me one way or the other and I just state my opinion when I disagree with certain things. I consider one of our biologists a friend and I'll vocally disagree with him all day long about that second cut in the plants, but at the end of the day it's his call and I respect his position as a biologist and more importantly, someone I call a friend. No biggie.
> 
> And yes, the Michigan Steelheaders, have been absolutely 100% instrumental in the success of the net pens. A lot of those guys have spent a lot of time being involved with them. I was on the board of a chapter, back in the day, and I tried like hell to get our guys on board with that, but most of those guys would rather talk about walleye fishing on lake Erie rather than Michigan Steelheading or getting involved with salmon net pens. :lol: That chapter vanished many years ago. So, while I may loathe the fact that the steelheaders were a driving force behind getting that five fish limit back, I do give them a huge pat on the back for their efforts with the net pens.


Oh how did I miss this one, The system is crashing we have been talking about this for awhile now in the surf/pier forums. Net pins are not a good idea. Anytime you have that many fish gathered up in one area there is the chance for disaster. What would happen if just one of those fish was infected or became infected with VHS. It would spread like mad.

I listen and talk to the old timers out on the pier and they say how thick the ales used to be, they just are not there anymore. To many hungry salmon, competition for food with mussels and native species. We are in a downward spiral and have yet to hit bottom. It will take years to get things back on track if we even can. Should we even continue to bring back the Ales and kings is another choice that will have to be made in the future.


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## Trout King

> Oh how did I miss this one, The system is crashing we have been talking about this for awhile now in the surf/pier forums. Net pins are not a good idea. Anytime you have that many fish gathered up in one area there is the chance for disaster. What would happen if just one of those fish was infected or became infected with VHS. It would spread like mad.
> 
> 
> Read more at Michigan-Sportsman.com: Grand River Salmon - Page 3 - The Michigan Sportsman Forums http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=346866&page=3#ixzz0z8QXZuPi


Do you think salmon in the big water don't pod up? They surely don't swim around the lake and have any close contact with one another


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## Multispeciestamer

Trout King said:


> Do you think salmon in the big water don't pod up? They surely don't swim around the lake and have any close contact with one another


 I see your point but it still stands that there are more fish in a smaller area in the net pins then out in the open lake.


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## greatlakesanime

Any updates for today saturday 9-18-2010


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## limpinglogan

I Drifted near grandville and Jenison today and yesterday night. We where 0-1 on salmon throwing spawn and bodies baits. My buddy caught a monster pike on a thundertick....and we got a few nice bass casting at wood. 

We saw 3-4 salmon surface in a total of two trips and eight hours fishing. 

Really not much action at all...

This Sept has been almost perfect conditions with the colder weathor and it seems like we have been getting a lot of rain. Wheres the fish?

I have been hearing alot of conflicting reports as to what the fish are doing and where they are at...I have been fishing alot and hav seen very little sign of any real run happening. 

I don't really feel like hitting 6th street because of the crowds.

I think I am going to try drifting again in the morning and I will post an update.

Any one else have any reports?


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## greatlakesanime

went over sunday the the 19th, seen a few more fishing jumping but not much biteing. Seen 3 landed, not sure but seems like its getting better week after week. hopefully it will be even better this coming weekend


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## Trout King

limited out somewhere in the grand yesterday. 4 kings 1 coho.


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## fishing-finlander

you got the only 5 fish in the river then.:lol: crazy year for sure


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## Multispeciestamer

Trout King said:


> limited out somewhere in the grand yesterday. 4 kings 1 coho.


 Thats how its done :evilsmile


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## limpinglogan

I would be happy with one fish.


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## Oldgrandman

I'd say it is better than last year already based on what I have seen, heard, and the reports. Good news for sure!


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## ab5228

I fished the grand today for about a half hour and caught 2 small cohos on spinners. Portland area


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## diztortion

Threw spoons for about 2 hours tonight. Went 1/1 on a 4lb jack.


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## vandam

i talked to a friend that caught two salmon at lyons dam last weekend. And i know that a lot of people forget about fishing for them in lansing. either at the moors river dam or up the red ceder. I caught three and lost four other ones last sept. into the beginning of oct. i hooked every one of those on was a medium suspending rapala blue back silver side orange belly. I have been using this certain rapala for the last three years and have pretty good results along with the steelhead i have had sucess using it for steelhead in the fall almost all the way up to dec. Give it a try i think that you will be suprised with the results. good luck


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## Fishslayer5789

Yes, but by the time salmon make it up to Lansing, they look like ghosts.


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## diztortion

Fishslayer5789 said:


> Yes, but by the time salmon make it up to Lansing, they look like ghosts.


They don't look much better downtown. I think I've read that it's about 63 miles or something like that to the fish ladder.


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## xyang

I've caught salmon in Lansing for the last 5 years. There are several areas in and around Lansing that you can find them but they are spotty. They don't get thick like over 10 years ago or like GR and up north but they do make it there.


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## Daddy&leelee

Every year they plant salmon at morris river drive in lansing we get a few kings and alot of coho I go when they are in the portland area. There is about a one week window to get nice silver coho's with firm red meat almost look like steelhead I usally get one or two steehead while fishing for the salmon. I prefer the smaller 4-6 pound fish any ways The kings are usally pretty dark when they arrive I also go to the pier marquett in the beginning to middle of sept and usally do well on the kings alot of walking though. all the salmon die so who cares if someone wants to keep five. I keep about ten to fifteen fish a year to smoke and grill I would rather eat a bluegill or perch. Every one loves a chunk of smoked salomon though including leelee


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## lunker69

The Kings don't usually make it to Lansing, although there are a few stragglers that make it there every now and then. The coho are planted there, and make it back in decent numbers. I believe that the North Lansing dam is something like 180 river miles, and that's the 6th dam they have to negotiate on the Grand. Pretty impressive that any fish make it up there actually, if you consider the gauntlet they need to go through. But I guess it's all relative, since in some river systems out west, salmon will traverse hundreds and hundreds of miles upstream.


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## fishfly

Daddy&leelee said:


> all the salmon die so who cares if someone wants to keep five. I keep about ten to fifteen fish a year


 
i generally agree but I think a more conservative approach be taken on rivers with natural repo like the PM where it is all natural. The Grand the Joe the MO...if keeping river fish is your thing then go for it! I personally keep a bunch while big lake fishing and let all river fish swim.


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## MickL

I wonder if the small cohos in the river now swim back into the big lake, or if they just die here this fall/winter.


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## RAD FISH

:: They will spawn and die.


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## MickL

Ok, I didn't know if cohos that young were capable of spawning...... too bad they don't stay in the big lake another year.


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## Spanky

Many are the same age as the larger ones, almost all of them are males.


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## thousandcasts

fishfly said:


> i generally agree but I think a more conservative approach be taken on rivers with natural repo like the PM where it is all natural. The Grand the Joe the MO...if keeping river fish is your thing then go for it! I personally keep a bunch while big lake fishing and let all river fish swim.


The Mo gets as much natural repro as the PM--if not more. Not that I care if people are keeping fish, just pointing that out.


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## fishfly

thousandcasts said:


> The Mo gets as much natural repro as the PM--if not more. Not that I care if people are keeping fish, just pointing that out.


Was not aware of that...what about steel?


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## Vicious Fishous

I think with the bubbler in the Mo now, the steelies will have an easier 18 months in that water and will start seeing more successful natural reproduction. But the salmon smolt much earier and don't have to deal with the hot water in the summer.

PETE


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## Trout King

The smaller fish do try to spawn, but like steelie said if you've ever watched, the brutes push them around, which frustrates them. They are more willing biters, but wouldn't say they are feeding.


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## steely74

I'm pretty sure that the smaller fish whether it be king or coho do not get to spawn because of the bigger fish bully them off the redds. Not saying it does not happen at all but smaller fish do get bullied around. They then get frustrated and go back to "feeding" until they die. I guess if the smaller fish were left alone and there were many in the same size range they will get to spawn. Any thoughts?


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## Benz

Good day on the Grand today. Only had about an hour to kill before work and hit the river. Hooked up on a king about 15 min into fishing around 3:30. 31'' 12 lbs

He fought very hard and it was clean take on a bobber and spawn. He turned pretty brown while sitting in my car on the way home but he was delicious tonight on the grill.


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## no lead

nice catch. it's all pink when it hits the grill.


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