# ATVs on groomed snowmobile trails (ORV Routes)



## jjlrrw (May 1, 2006)

Now that Michigan Snowmobile Association became Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association they will need to make some unpopular laws for some or they will rot from the inside. I predict soon trails will be open for wheeled vehicles April through November and snowmobiles December through March. Other roads that are currently open to ORV that are not part of the snowmobile trails could remain open all year for both.


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## 1morebite (Apr 9, 2016)

The point you are missing is it's also an ORV route, go ride a trail that is not an ORV/ snowmobile trail and your problems are solved.
Your research list two different years, why not compare apples to apples.
Good bad or indifferent, we all just need to get along and don't be calling someone a dick for doing what is legal.
Over and out


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## Jimbo 09 (Jan 28, 2013)

Nothing worse than sxs and trucks tearing up groomed trails. It’s been even worse the last few years when we may only get 6 weeks of good snow for riding. Should be common courtesy to stay off the groomed trails.


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## Yamirider (Oct 3, 2008)

ATV's and SxS don't belong on a groomed snowmobile trail period. First and for most it's very dangerous. SxS's are wide and some of the tight trails in the lower there just isn't enough room for them to pass safely at speed. Wheeled vehicles ruin a groom and make it unsafe for snowmobiles with the ruts left behind. Also much of the groomer drivers are volunteer. I know one driver who no longer grooms because he was so frustrated with the wheeled vehicles ruining the ribbon. Why should he spend 8 hours grooming only to have the trail ruined in minutes by wheeled vehicles. Have some courtesy and stay off the groomed trails. I think there is legislation coming for next year to make this happen.


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## MossyHorns (Apr 14, 2011)

Yamirider said:


> ATV's and SxS don't belong on a groomed snowmobile trail period. First and for most it's very dangerous. SxS's are wide and some of the tight trails in the lower there just isn't enough room for them to pass safely at speed. Wheeled vehicles ruin a groom and make it unsafe for snowmobiles with the ruts left behind. Also much of the groomer drivers are volunteer. I know one driver who no longer grooms because he was so frustrated with the wheeled vehicles ruining the ribbon. Why should he spend 8 hours grooming only to have the trail ruined in minutes by wheeled vehicles. Have some courtesy and stay off the groomed trails. I think there is legislation coming for next year to make this happen.


The proposed legislation wont stop ORV's from riding the routes that are also snowmobile trails. They just need to stop grooming them with snowmobile money.


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## 22 Chuck (Feb 2, 2006)

I guess Im one of the 4x4s that 'trash the trail' except I quit as the one near me is not safe for my GMC. I need to go 0.55 mi on it to a good deer spot, I couldnt take it after 100 yrds.

Just a constant washboard where the ATV jaze it on every corner anmd washboard it all.


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## graybeard (Jan 4, 2006)

Think about this a little,the trail go through a lot of private property.
The trail goes through my 115 acres north of Manistque it is the Curtis trail.
I dont own a snowmobile but I have a four wheeler only used on my property no tail riding.
If they close trail to wheeled vehicles I would lock my gates and no buddy will use it.


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

If it’s opened to both sleds and wheelers and someone doesn’t like it then make your voice heard to the proper people that can do something to change it to your beliefs In the meantime some trails are open to both so deal with it or find somewhere else to ride that is sled only.


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## Fishindeer (Dec 29, 2017)

graybeard said:


> Think about this a little,the trail go through a lot of private property.
> The trail goes through my 115 acres north of Manistque it is the Curtis trail.
> I dont own a snowmobile but I have a four wheeler only used on my property no tail riding.
> If they close trail to wheeled vehicles I would lock my gates and no buddy will use it.


Thanks for the access. Not sure which trail runs thru your property but I’ve never seen any atvs or sxs running these UP trails while being groomed for snowmobiles. Wheeled vehicles when no snow, snowmobiles when grooming the snow is all good in my view. But I don’t own the property so yes you should have more input than us users that just purchase trail permits and registrations for our snowmobiles. I’m sure you aren’t compensated enough for allowing access but we do appreciate it. I’ve been thinking of this a lot this year when I see tracks going off trail in areas that are most likely private property. Most I think are the opposite would rather have snowmobiles in the winter when most are not there. But quiet time in the warmer months when you could be outside enjoying the peace and quiet.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

I wouldn't want to be on a groomed trail with a snowmobile , let alone on my three wheeler , or even a four wheeler.
Worse , I like to putt more than reach wide open for a long stretch.
Neighbors hit the trails sledding though. I enjoy the thought that they really enjoy it.

Guess I'm too much like an old friend who mounted mirrors on his sled , saying he couldn't hardly stand it when a sled blew past him at mach 3 he didn't know was behind him prior.

Groomed for sleds suits sleds. Designated groomed trails might as well be for such to maintain a base under them as long as possible.. Unless they are twenty yards wide and wheelers kept on edges. Which ain't gonna happen.


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## CrawlerHarness (Dec 9, 2017)

1morebite said:


> The point you are missing is it's also an ORV route, go ride a trail that is not an ORV/ snowmobile trail and your problems are solved.
> Your research list two different years, why not compare apples to apples.
> Good bad or indifferent, we all just need to get along and don't be calling someone a dick for doing what is legal.
> Over and out


Why not put some effort into it and do some research yourself? 

As for me.....I will trust his numbers. Probably couldn't find ORV and Snowmobile numbers for the same year.


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## John Hine (Mar 31, 2019)

All of the trails in my area are multi use, which includes horses, there are many areas where the designated horse trails merge & cross with the multi use trail. Ever see what a half dozen horses do to a groomed multi use trail? Goose creek horse camp is not far from the M-72 snowmobile trailhead. I’ve seen dirt bikes & sleds on the designated horse trails too. I think it boils down to live & let live & respect.


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## Rich1028 (Jul 14, 2013)

I myself, I just stay off all trails till it is time!
the snowmobilers have such a short season, and I can ride quads 9 months out of the year, so I give up my 3 months for them!


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## 1morebite (Apr 9, 2016)

CrawlerHarness said:


> Why not put some effort into it and do some research yourself?
> 
> As for me.....I will trust his numbers. Probably couldn't find ORV and Snowmobile numbers for the same year.


Why,
Because I am not the one complaining about someone doing what is legal.
I could care less as I don't ride atv, ORV on trails in the winter anyhow.
It's legal, get over it. SMH


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## JeepJeff (Jun 15, 2015)

When I lived in Houghton Lake a couple years back I was involved in maintaining the trail system around the county which included grooming the winter trails one night a week. We groomed both snowmobile trails and orv trails because the trail system was comprised of both. Meaning the snowobiles were using the orv trails and vice versa. ONLY time an atv/utv/4x4 cannot ride on a state trail is when it is specified as motorcycle or snowmobile only. 
On another note, if you ever get to chance to groom the trails or ride in one of those tracked groomers DO IT! Them things are awesome, plus ours was heated, and we saw a lot of wild game in the hours between midnight and 5am.


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## Mark4486 (Oct 14, 2015)

this is a hard topic. I snowmobile but also understand what's legal. if you ride a sxs on a groomed trail and your legally allowed to then its your right but in the same token its also my right to flip you off. even know I don't do that either. i think this is one of those situations where you have to take in common curtesy. a good example of this is on state land i could legally hunt right next to you. Or ice fish 5 feet from you but i dont because i pride myself in being a considerate guy. so do as you wish until the law says different but keep in mind how you are affecting others.


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## wruebs (Nov 18, 2003)

I'm a snowmobiler and a atv rider. I wouldn't dare drive the atv on an actively groomed snowmobile trail. This is downright a display of selfishness, even if its legal. I guess that is the world these days, hurray for me and boo for you! The reports of wheeled vehicles tarnishing groomed trails is exponentially increasing. I've seen it more in just the last two years than I've experienced in the previous 20+ years. Obviously this will have to be addressed by the lawmakers. As it was noted earlier, if it weren't for the groomers packing and firming the trails, typically the trail wouldn't be suitable for wheeled vehicles. If I had authority, I would propose requiring a snowmobile trail permit for wheeled vehicles utilizing said trails* during* active grooming conditions.


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## John Hine (Mar 31, 2019)

wruebs said:


> I'm a snowmobiler and a atv rider. I wouldn't dare drive the atv on an actively groomed snowmobile trail. This is downright a display of selfishness, even if its legal. I guess that is the world these days, hurray for me and boo for you! The reports of wheeled vehicles tarnishing groomed trails is exponentially increasing. I've seen it more in just the last two years than I've experienced in the previous 20+ years. Obviously this will have to be addressed by the lawmakers. As it was noted earlier, if it weren't for the groomers packing and firming the trails, typically the trail wouldn't be suitable for wheeled vehicles. If I had authority, I would propose requiring a snowmobile trail permit for wheeled vehicles utilizing said trails* during* active grooming conditions.


ORV’s are required to purchase a trail permit to access these trails already.


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## Fishindeer (Dec 29, 2017)

Snow trail permit cost $48 per year plus snowmobile registration is required at $10 per year. Snowmobiles get 3-4 months of trail riding in good years. I agree it cost more to maintain a snowmobile trail than a atv trail so i understand the extra cost. Snowmobiles could ride a atv trail and not do damage not true with atvs on groomed snowmobile trails. Atvs want to ride groomed snowmobile trails pay for a snow trail permit. Snowmobile wants to ride a atv trail on dirt I’d pay for a atv trail permit. So I agree with Wruebs. Just ride your trails when appropriate. That’s being a respectful rider.


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## MossyHorns (Apr 14, 2011)

John Hine said:


> ORV’s are required to purchase a trail permit to access these trails already.
> 
> View attachment 760570


The winter grooming of an ORV Route is 100% funded by the snowmobile trail pass. At a minimum, ORV's should have to purchase a snowmobile trail pass which will cost more than $50 for the 2022 season.


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