# Will Baiting/Feeding Stop 1/1/19?



## Luv2hunteup

I know some here are very passionate about baiting, feeding and putting mineral sites out. Will you continue to do so after the first of the year in the LP? Private pole so nobody will see who voted.


----------



## Old lund

This should be interesting, a lot of bait pile watchers already put out way more than the leagal 2 gallons now . I used to bait , years and years ago my success has got much better after quitting baiting and hunting travel routs to natural feeding


----------



## DirtySteve

Old lund said:


> This should be interesting, a lot of bait pile watchers already put out way more than the leagal 2 gallons now . I used to bait , years and years ago my success has got much better after quitting baiting and hunting travel routs to natural feeding


I have said it many times.....I have never seen a completely legal bait pile that I happened across in the woods. I did find one that was 2 gallons once. The guy used apple cores and peelings. I am guessing his wife made pies for restaurants or something. He always had them in a pile though not 10x10 area. He hunted the same stand several years in a row in a stateland rye field.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## FullQuiver

DirtySteve said:


> I have said it many times.....I have never seen a completely legal bait pile that I happened across in the woods.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Same same.. Heck I live and hunt in the CWD core area and baiting hasn't slowed down much on any of the private ground around me.. I still see neighbors hauling out bags or trailers of beets and carrots regularly... Both deer I shot during the rifle season when examining stomach contents had large quantities of bait in their guts....


----------



## panfisher07

Should just go to bite size bait. Beets/carrots diced and shelled corn . I’m sure we’ll still see bags of bait for sale next year. Bait or no bait I’ll b hunting.


----------



## stickbow shooter

I'm still going to bait, screw the Man. Ain't telling me what to do !!!


----------



## Scout 2

Just plant the bait saves carrying it out


----------



## atp500

I talked to a gentleman this morning who got caught. The fine was $350. DNR officer told him next time he would loose his rifle, hunting rights for 3 years and the fine would be higher.


----------



## YOTEANTIDOTE

I could check on my phone for the answer but I thought it was 1/31/19?


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Scout 2

I am guessing but I bet there will be a lot of drone classes being held this summer. I heard of an area where they are using them on the lakes


----------



## stickbow shooter

Scout 2 said:


> Just plant the bait saves carrying it out


I will just dump it on Jr's property then hunt the trails heading toward it off the Fed land.


----------



## YOTEANTIDOTE

And yes as much as I don’t like it I will take down my recreational viewing corn feeders!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Scout 2

stickbow shooter said:


> I will just dump it on Jr's property then hunt the trails heading toward it off the Fed land.


Thats what I do now. Why buy it when your neighbor put it out. Besides I am getting lazy in my old age


----------



## Lightfoot

I asked that same question to somebody here in the U.P. this morning and was met with near verbal violence.

edit: this person did not know cwd was found in the U.P. and thought cwd in the L.P. was near Cheboygan. They had no idea what "core area" meant.


----------



## YOTEANTIDOTE

Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## jr28schalm

stickbow shooter said:


> I will just dump it on Jr's property then hunt the trails heading toward it off the Fed land.


Plz don't, I would like to still see legal bucks


----------



## Scout 2

stickbow shooter said:


> I will just dump it on Jr's property then hunt the trails heading toward it off the Fed land.


I am going to buy a bunch of the hooks for Christmas bulbs and hang them on my apple trees. That way I can get the red beets and hang them on the trees so they look like apples


----------



## Hillsdales Most Wanted

Scout 2 said:


> I am going to buy a bunch of the hooks for Christmas bulbs and hang them on my apple trees. That way I can get the red beets and hang them on the trees so they look like apples


Could i plant an apple tree & throw down 200lbs of apples below it??:shhh:


----------



## Liver and Onions

Hillsdales Most Wanted said:


> Could i plant an apple tree & throw down 200lbs of apples below it??:shhh:


That's called relocating, not baiting. 

L & O


----------



## stickbow shooter

Hillsdales Most Wanted said:


> Could i plant an apple tree & throw down 200lbs of apples below it??:shhh:


Why yes you could


----------



## Scout 2

jr28schalm said:


> Plz don't, I would like to still see legal bucks


You are not hunting in the right spot. You have to move don't you remember that from the APR threads


----------



## Scout 2

nothbound said:


> I planted a few acres of bird seed sunflowers, deer avoided area like the plague. Turkey and pheasants loved it thou.


You have to get the other kind for some reason they will not eat oil sunflowers, must leave a bad taste. They also love hot pepper plants


----------



## Scout 2

poz said:


> I'm just going to use orange peels like the do down south. Deer love them. And it won't be considered bait, it's a farming practice to put nutrients into my food plot.
> View attachment 348035


Potato's work also. Just take a ride thru the growing area south of Kalkaska some evening after the harvest


----------



## MichMatt

Hillsdales Most Wanted said:


> Could i plant an apple tree & throw down 200lbs of apples below it??:shhh:


Just be sure you take the labels off the apples. 

A couple years ago (round one baiting ban) in one of the CO weekly reports someone placed apples under a tree with labels. The CO asked about baiting and the "hunter" said they were from the tree. CO pointed out the labels and got a confession. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## TrailMarker

What I keep saying is if every local gas station (including national chain speedway) keeps carrots, corn and apples out for sale at the pumps (which they did during the oringinal baiting ban), how can the DNR stop it? I get it that they can’t ban selling apples and corn, but if local businesses still look at it as profit versus ethics, how can it be stopped? I think banning baiting is more political than about disease reduction, but there’s lots of those battles in government.


----------



## reddog1

TrailMarker said:


> What I keep saying is if every local gas station (including national chain speedway) keeps carrots, corn and apples out for sale at the pumps (which they did during the oringinal baiting ban), how can the DNR stop it? I get it that they can’t ban selling apples and corn, but if local businesses still look at it as profit versus ethics, how can it be stopped? I think banning baiting is more political than about disease reduction, but there’s lots of those battles in government.


I the apples,corn, and carrots from speedway and I also buy the 50lb mineral blocks for cattle. I don't buy them to feed or bait deer. I have a 5 acre beagle training pen with a fairly decent rabbit population. I put the corn in feeders and put the apples and carrots under pallets and brush piles. The mineral blocks, I break into smaller chunks and distribute them around the pen. 
Sometimes the deer eat the apples and carrots but I don't consider this baiting. I'm just trying to keep my rabbit population healthy.


----------



## Pelican257R

I see several compost piles in the future for the property I hunt. Any critters caught stealing may be shot.


----------



## jstfish48162

TrailMarker said:


> What I keep saying is if every local gas station (including national chain speedway) keeps carrots, corn and apples out for sale at the pumps (which they did during the oringinal baiting ban), how can the DNR stop it? I get it that they can’t ban selling apples and corn, but if local businesses still look at it as profit versus ethics, how can it be stopped? I think banning baiting is more political than about disease reduction, but there’s lots of those battles in government.


I look at it like selling rifles in the SLP where they are not legal to hunt with. Hunters can buy them downstate and use them in the NLP Rifle Zone and UP. 
Vendors can sell the “bait”. They don’t care about where it is used. Not their problem to worry about. All they are concerned with is the profit of the sale.


----------



## DirtySteve

Scout 2 said:


> Just make sure they are all the same kind of apples


I had a high school teacher who was really into botany. He had 5 apple trees that had several varieties on each tree. He grafted branches of different apples Into each tree. He was very proud of his trees.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Scout 2

DirtySteve said:


> I had a high school teacher who was really into botany. He had 5 apple trees that had several varieties on each tree. He grafted branches of different apples Into each tree. He was very proud of his trees.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


My parents had a small orchard and they had 2 trees that had 5 different kinds of apples on each one.


----------



## Luv2hunteup

jstfish48162 said:


> I look at it like selling rifles in the SLP where they are not legal to hunt with. Hunters can buy them downstate and use them in the NLP Rifle Zone and UP.
> Vendors can sell the “bait”. They don’t care about where it is used. Not their problem to worry about. All they are concerned with is the profit of the sale.


Which rifles sold downstate can only be used on deer? Can you provide a link to the law? 

I can use use a 460 Weatherby to hunt just about anything downstate the exception is for deer.


----------



## jstfish48162

Luv2hunteup said:


> Which rifles sold downstate can only be used on deer? Can you provide a link to the law?
> 
> I can use use a 460 Weatherby to hunt just about anything downstate the exception is for deer.


The rifle example is for deer hunting. The Poll / Subject is for baiting in the SLP after it is outlawed.Hunting with certain rifles for deer is illegal in the SLP Shotgun Zone but it isn’t illegal to sell certain rifles in the SLP Shotgun Zone. The comparison I was making was selling rifles and bait where it is (going to be for both) illegal.
Was NOT quoting any law.


----------



## Lightfoot

Imagine if you had to submit an ID to a database to purchase assault bait?

großer bruder schaut zu


----------



## jr28schalm

Will 2 and half ounces be a legal bait pile next year


----------



## Lightfoot

I thought it was 10oz. Can you get a depredation permit for your "crop" damage?


----------



## plugger

Luv2hunteup said:


> Which rifles sold downstate can only be used on deer? Can you provide a link to the law?
> 
> I can use use a 460 Weatherby to hunt just about anything downstate the exception is for deer.


 Which item you listed cant be fed to cattle, sheep, rabbits, chickens or people.


----------



## Rainman68

Luv2hunteup said:


> Which rifles sold downstate can only be used on deer? Can you provide a link to the law?
> 
> I can use use a 460 Weatherby to hunt just about anything downstate the exception is for deer.


Exception is township laws and we have many.

Question is who is going to cap off their 20 year old mineral site with concrete?


----------



## Luv2hunteup

The last go around I thought all you were required to do is stop adding mineral to be compliant. No doubt there will be a test case.


----------



## PalookaJim

Damn!...... And I just dumped my life savings into the Bait-O-Matic 6000.


----------



## stickbow shooter

Luv2hunteup said:


> The last go around I thought all you were required to do is stop adding mineral to be compliant. No doubt there will be a test case.


Yea, I bet guys stopped.


----------



## Liver and Onions

jstfish48162 said:


> The rifle example is for deer hunting. The Poll / Subject is for baiting in the SLP after it is outlawed.Hunting with certain rifles for deer is illegal in the SLP Shotgun Zone but it isn’t illegal to sell certain rifles in the SLP Shotgun Zone. The comparison I was making was selling rifles and bait where it is (going to be for both) illegal.
> Was NOT quoting any law.


It seemed quite clear to me.

L & O


----------



## jstfish48162

Liver and Onions said:


> It seemed quite clear to me.
> 
> L & O


Apparently not for everyone


----------



## dinoday

I haven't baited in years. 
I hunt way to far in to carry a bucket out there.


----------



## fishx65

Like others have said, the only way baiting will slow down is if it's not easily available at every single gas station and mini mart in the state.


----------



## Chessieman

Luv2hunteup said:


> The last go around I thought all you were required to do is stop adding mineral to be compliant. No doubt there will be a test case.


You should have had your licks made by this fall so the rain and snow will break it down the mineral blocks. Mine is in hard pan clay and is 6" deep by about 5 feet in diameter. This was started 20 years ago and was originally on flat ground with generations of deer creating it. Can you say deer training? The location is in a area that the deer hang around in but is not within hunting or sight range. 
As for the bait being at the gas stations the Farm Bureau could put a quick stop to it. The stations have to cut a check to a company which could be traced back. Can you say income tax invasion?


----------



## poz

stickbow shooter said:


> Yea, I bet guys stopped.


 Ethical hunters Would have no problem destroying the mineral licks knowing they can spread disease. But as we can see, all these so called hunters who are so concerned about the herd will not do anything voluntarily to help the herd if it messes up their precious land or hunting. If you ever were on here preaching about banning bait to help stop the spread diseases and you do nothing about destroying your mineral licks, than you are not the ethical hunter you claim to be.


----------



## stickbow shooter

I hope they would stop, minerals seem to me to be worse then any bait when it comes to spreading disease.


----------



## bald eagle

If the DNR prohibited gas stations and party stores and Etc,etc... from selling bait, If that is possible then I could see them stop people from baiting. From some of the post on here that's not going to stop baiting unless the people selling it charge 15- dollars a bag.:bouncy:


----------



## DEDGOOSE

The whole gas station things a joke. Could pick up a truck load of apples in in-laws yard. Go to coop get shelled corn. Cmon if people are gonna bait they'll figure out how


----------



## Radar420

I've been thinking about growing blue corn - how much do you think baiters will pay for a bag of it shelled?


----------



## beer and nuts

Enough will quit baiting and quit hunting...when money becomes a problem for the DNR, baiting will once again OK.


----------



## GIDEON

After reading 5 pages of this jargon, a point that I have always known was reiterated to me. That is, that unethical people will find a way to try and excuse their illegal behavior. Personally, I hope that the fines when caught, even through the shams and smokescreens, are so substantial that they hurt. Thousands of dollars, loss of weapon, loss of hunting privileges for (x) amount of years just to start. Treat poachers like poachers need to be treated.


----------



## CHASINEYES

Will the ban apply to recreational feeding around homes?


----------



## plugger

It doesn't matter if gas stations give bait away or QDM sends every member 50 pounds of mineral it is illegal to place bait. either you support ethical and legal hunting practices or you don't.


----------



## eye-sore

GIDEON said:


> After reading 5 pages of this jargon, a point that I have always known was reiterated to me. That is, that unethical people will find a way to try and excuse their illegal behavior. Personally, I hope that the fines when caught, even through the shams and smokescreens, are so substantial that they hurt. Thousands of dollars, loss of weapon, loss of hunting privileges for (x) amount of years just to start. Treat poachers like poachers need to be treated.



The problem with this is that felons who have done way worse get less than that.feeding deer cant be worse than say domestic abuse or assault


----------



## Boardman Brookies

Baiting has been illegal in DMU 487 for a long time but that hasn’t stopped anyone. Heck the stores still sell it all over around there. I don’t expect guys will quit. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Hillsdales Most Wanted

jstfish48162 said:


> The rifle example is for deer hunting. The Poll / Subject is for baiting in the SLP after it is outlawed.Hunting with certain rifles for deer is illegal in the SLP Shotgun Zone but it isn’t illegal to sell certain rifles in the SLP Shotgun Zone. The comparison I was making was selling rifles and bait where it is (going to be for both) illegal.
> Was NOT quoting any law.


U dont have to explain, some guys are slow


----------



## GIDEON

eye-sore said:


> The problem with this is that felons who have done way worse get less than that.feeding deer cant be worse than say domestic abuse or assault


See, drove my point home,


eye-sore said:


> The problem with this is that felons who have done way worse get less than that.feeding deer cant be worse than say domestic abuse or assault


So you justify what you are doing by saying someone else is doing something worse........Priceless


----------



## eye-sore

Im not doing anything as i dont bait to begin with. Im simply pointing out the absurdity that you think that would ever fly in the courtroom or public opinion.ive been consistent saying they should ban plots if they ban bait then everybody gets all touchy


----------



## jiggin is livin

Boardman Brookies said:


> Baiting has been illegal in DMU 487 for a long time but that hasn’t stopped anyone. Heck the stores still sell it all over around there. I don’t expect guys will quit.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


I've found bait piles every year. I see guys hauling trailers of beets right into alcona campground. You can't tell me DNR don't drive through the campground and see that. It isn't enforced hardly at all like it should be. 

Sent from my E6810 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## ludington-ed

It's hard enough to find a spot to hunt ( most public land sucks) let alone find that sweet spot where you can watch a trail going from bedding to feeding area . Where I hunt deer do not pattern. However, there is a decent population of deer. Unless you have placed some food sources it's impossable to pick a place to sit.


----------



## jwheelfan03

GIDEON said:


> After reading 5 pages of this jargon, a point that I have always known was reiterated to me. That is, that unethical people will find a way to try and excuse their illegal behavior. Personally, I hope that the fines when caught, even through the shams and smokescreens, are so substantial that they hurt. Thousands of dollars, loss of weapon, loss of hunting privileges for (x) amount of years just to start. Treat poachers like poachers need to be treated.


Ethics are determined by the individual not the law. Just because it’s illegal doesn’t mean it’s unethical. That’s a matter of opinion. Alcohol was illegal at a point in time, so when it was illegal was it unethical? But now that it’s not it is ethical? I don’t care either way about baiting, to each is own. Just sayin..


----------



## feedinggrounds

atp500 said:


> I talked to a gentleman this morning who got caught. The fine was $350. DNR officer told him next time he would loose his rifle, hunting rights for 3 years and the fine would be higher.


What the DNR officer told him and what a court does are two different things. The CO writes the ticket, testifies in court, someone else determines the rest. Some places the fine could be less, much less.


----------



## ludington-ed

Deer gather in groups, bait piles or natural food, they group very tight in yarding areas in winter. The argument baiting causes deer to group and pass alone CWD is BS. What you do on private land should be your business and not the DNR's


----------



## feedinggrounds

Scout 2 said:


> You have to get the other kind for some reason they will not eat oil sunflowers, must leave a bad taste. They also love hot pepper plants


They clean them up under my bird feeder outside the living room window every night. They come in about 6 pm.


----------



## feedinggrounds

Scout 2 said:


> My parents had a small orchard and they had 2 trees that had 5 different kinds of apples on each one.


I have 1 tree with two kinds, my efforts at grafting. Took me a few tries, I had a favorite tree at work, out of over a hundred. I tried a few times over 3 years and got it to take. A talent for sure.


----------



## feedinggrounds

Chessieman said:


> You should have had your licks made by this fall so the rain and snow will break it down the mineral blocks. Mine is in hard pan clay and is 6" deep by about 5 feet in diameter. This was started 20 years ago and was originally on flat ground with generations of deer creating it. Can you say deer training? The location is in a area that the deer hang around in but is not within hunting or sight range.
> As for the bait being at the gas stations the Farm Bureau could put a quick stop to it. The stations have to cut a check to a company which could be traced back. Can you say income tax invasion?


Tax Invasion?? is that a Democrat thing? Never heard of it. Evasion possibly? But not if suppliers are conducting up and up business. The Farm Bureau and IRS are different you know...


----------



## feedinggrounds

QDMAMAN said:


> At first I voted never have, never will until I realized it included mineral so I changed to YES. To be clear...I quit providing mineral when baiting and feeding was outlawed in Eaton Co. after the discovery of CWD in Michigan.


Yes yes yes I believe you.


----------



## FullQuiver

jwheelfan03 said:


> Ethics are determined by the individual not the law. Just because it’s illegal doesn’t mean it’s unethical. That’s a matter of opinion. Alcohol was illegal at a point in time, so when it was illegal was it unethical? But now that it’s not it is ethical? I don’t care either way about baiting, to each is own. Just sayin..


So how about it's unethical because it's illegal.. Or so laws have no moral relevance, seems like a pretty slippery slope.. However a full 1/4 of the people here on this poll have admitted they will break the law because they don't like it... Yet these same people will cry if they see a deer poached out of season or someone trespassing on their property.. Seems like hypocrisy at its finest... Same same if you don't like the law there are avenues in this state to change them... 

However, breaking it because you don't like it only reaffirms the notion that some people have that people who bait are just slobs...


----------



## feedinggrounds

QDMAMAN said:


> I've applied for a Brownfield grant.


 I still believe you! Tell it to the judge he will believe you too.


----------



## feedinggrounds

QUOTE="FullQuiver, post: 7021815, member: 18811"]So how about it's unethical because it's illegal.. Or so laws have no moral relevance, seems like a pretty slippery slope.. However a full 1/4 of the people here on this poll have admitted they will break the law because they don't like it... Yet these same people will cry if they see a deer poached out of season or someone trespassing on their property.. Seems like hypocrisy at its finest... Same same if you don't like the law there are avenues in this state to change them...

However, breaking it because you don't like it only reaffirms the notion that some people have that people who bait are just slobs...[/QUOTE] I have always strived to have the neatest well spread balanced bait site, the nicest beets, pretty apples, and corn, the best corn with molasses powder mixed in. I will accept nothing less, I have even pulled over and picked up others bait bags. Never bothered me a bit. But a slob baiter I am not, I consider myself a master.


----------



## feedinggrounds

I took the 5th on the poll. I will probably do what the majority of folks did with the last bait ban.


----------



## Jimbo 09

Can’t wait for the baiting ban. Maybe we will see deer during the daylight again. Too much baiting around us really hurts the daytime movement. If any of the neighbors bait they will be getting a visit from the C.O.


----------



## Biggbear

The only reason to stop is to be compliant with the law. If anyone thinks that by not baiting or using mineral sites they are " saving the herd" they are naive. Many states have stopped baiting, but not CWD. This is a knee-jerk reaction, and fills in as the DNR doing "something" to stop the spread. This something is better than nothing mentality is meant to dupe people into accepting a law that has not been, and will not be successful at stopping CWD from spreading. I certainly don't advocate breaking the law, but let's not get so full of ourselves that we think this will make a difference.


----------



## sureshot006

I have a feeling the majority of anti bait folks hunt ag areas.


----------



## skipper34

What if the DNR/NRC put a stop on baiting because they merely wanted to end baiting? Did they unequivocally ban baiting because of CWD? Probably was their motive but maybe not. Maybe they just needed an excuse to end the practice. Knowing all along that baiting has little if anything to do with the spread of CWD?


----------



## sureshot006

skipper34 said:


> What if the DNR/NRC put a stop on baiting because they merely wanted to end baiting? Did they unequivocally ban baiting because of CWD? Probably was their motive but maybe not. Maybe they just needed an excuse to end the practice. Knowing all along that baiting has little if anything to do with the spread of CWD?


What is your theory as to why they would just want to end it? Personal gain?


----------



## skipper34

sureshot006 said:


> What is your theory as to why they would just want to end it? Personal gain?


Maybe they just feel the way I do about it?


----------



## spikekilla

skipper34 said:


> Maybe they just feel the way I do about it?


How do you feel about it ? I forget.


----------



## sureshot006

skipper34 said:


> Maybe they just feel the way I do about it?


Which I interpret as personal gain. I may be wrong, just my read on the general root of these topics (bait, apr, etc).


----------



## Tilden Hunter

sureshot006 said:


> I have a feeling the majority of anti bait folks hunt ag areas.


Not this one. The nearest real ag area is a 1-1/2 hours drive away.


----------



## Tilden Hunter

Spartan88 said:


> The state will have a new cash cow in their lap next year with the enhanced fine structure. Do you realize how many used Yugo's ya could be the proud owner of for the price of killing an 8 point over bait? You could could drive a different one each day of the week, and be the envy of your neighborhood!


You could barely drive them when new. Now they'd just be lawn ornaments.


----------



## State land hunter

most of the places i have cameras there is no bait...unless u call what MN drops from the oaks....
and other trees...

i saw 3 small bucks this morning and 6 small doe maybe one 1.5 year old doe...but in general....no bait out hear...


----------



## State land hunter

bait or no bait this year our deer kill is down abit my boys and I kill 15 at least on average this year i think we r on 7 but there best hunting is still to come...i have 3 boys....10pt and 2 8pts and 4 doe...but we probaly have passed up more than most people becuase we try to shoot 2.5 year old or older deer..you get alot more meet from them....


----------



## Martian

no baiting will not stop, I won't bait, I don't think it is that hard to play by the rules


----------



## G20man

slabstar said:


> Yes. On the dow website it says no unnatural food sources. Food plots are unnatural food sources.
> Surprised you didn't choose to quote the dow website. Lol
> Other states don't allow it as well. If your trying to argue that, ask yourself why ...? Foodolots are an unnatural food source that DRAW more animals to a concentrated area ... which can lead to MORE disease issues. Its not even arguable. Lol.
> 
> 
> Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


No I'm not arguing anything. 
But I've run across many threads regarding food plots for deer in Colorado. 
I can't find anything that says food plots are illegal. 
Could you supply some links?


----------



## slabstar

G20man said:


> No I'm not arguing anything.
> But I've run across many threads regarding food plots for deer in Colorado.
> I can't find anything that says food plots are illegal.
> Could you supply some links?


Colorado dow, big game hunting, faq, is baiting legal? 
The bigger question is: why did our dnr/nrc stop short at just bags of bait and not food plots for the purpose of attracting wildlife. It's like they're halfbassing it! 


Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## LuckyBucks

How do you ban this?


----------



## skipper34

sureshot006 said:


> I dont recall anyone on here admitting they are actually doing or have done it. Only that they agree or disagree with the new regs, and why it is a benefit or detriment to their hunting and the future.


You really think that somebody on these forums is going to admit to violating?


----------



## skipper34

LuckyBucks said:


> How do you ban this?
> 
> View attachment 350409


You can't and they don't. The DNR is not trying to ban natural deer socialization. Just baiting.


----------



## bowhunter426

LuckyBucks said:


> How do you ban this?
> 
> View attachment 350409


Death penalty. Shoot them both.


----------



## LuckyBucks

Has there been a study that shows increased cwd transmission from baiting? Link?


----------



## sureshot006

skipper34 said:


> You really think that somebody on these forums is going to admit to violating?


Nope. That's why I mentioned earlier in this thread that a poll is dumb.


----------



## State land hunter

i have a friend that hunts nwup and he says he will keep baiting...and when it comes to food plots my food plot is oak trees....should we cut them down also...


----------



## State land hunter

so on my way out i checked my camera a nice 10pt was there yesterday morning at 730am....and two other nice 8pts that was there at loke 340pm...so i think people are crazy about the nk nocturnal deer.....i think people just have no clue how to hunt....i am not perfect but I can't remeber either myself or one of my sons dont see a deer...


----------



## State land hunter

in the area i am hunting this morning there is no baiting allowed but 1.5 miles down the road there is a guy who is selling corn.....not sure why it is ok to sell corn where there is no baiting....even the stores have it....


----------



## aquaalf

Hillsdales Most Wanted said:


> Could i plant an apple tree & throw down 200lbs of apples below it??:shhh:


 That would be Illegal Migrant apples and only acceptable to the Dems. on here.


----------



## sureshot006

State land hunter said:


> i have a friend that hunts nwup and he says he will keep baiting...and when it comes to food plots my food plot is oak trees....should we cut them down also...


Well yeah, baiting is not planned to he banned in the UP so...


----------



## 50incher

Here's my problem as an example, I used to have to use VHS tested minnows on the great lake connecting waters that already had VHS !?!?…. it drove bait shop owners bonkers as well as fisherman....today I can't use worms that say a "product of Canada" in Canadian waters !?!? even though their sold in the U.S. because their in dirt !?!?….

Are some laws retarded ?...yes they are, can we ignore them ?, no we can't....am I an angel  ?.....ahh pee off !....lol....do fines = punishment ?, not if your rich....

I do not know how CWD got here or much after that....I do know the behavior of a lot of out of state hunters who hunted CWD states & Canada who did not follow the law about bringing those animals back to MI. or anywhere else....for years....

I don't mind having to go back to old school hunting, but success will go down unless you hunt farm land or some mega managed property....the working person already only has so much time they can spend effort on to help them get a deer....& God knows deer won't be in close contact on a farmers corn field....

Good ole deer hunting in Michigan, along with a lot of other things….makes ya shake your head...cheers....


----------



## John Singer

Should not the question be:

Will you quit, cheat, or learn to hunt?

Btw: Based on the poll results, I fully expect to read about several of you next year in Officers on Patrol.


----------



## John Singer

Luv2hunteup said:


> View attachment 350683
> 
> 
> We don’t really do drives but do silent pushes. To say our public land drives move deer to private land is pretty laughable. That’s nearly as laughable as some thinking there’s a difference between public and private land deer. They all migrate out of this area anyhow and spend half the year on public land anyhow.
> 
> Here’s the map around camp in DMU 247. White is private, green state, brown CFA and pink Federal.


Southern Michigan is the inverse of that map.


----------



## Trophy Specialist

sureshot006 said:


> There are lots of worse things that are problems. I will try not to lose sleep over if Johnny B Good uses a carrot while Matilda texts/drives and kills someone. But yeah both are illegal.


I wonder how many of the people that will be outraged over piddly baiting violations will think nothing of traffic violations, which actually can result is injury or death to people?


----------



## swampbuck

sureshot006 said:


> Sure, I'd buy that. I feel like in this situation, you've got guys planting their bait in the summer telling guys that toss it out in fall to learn to hunt. There is definitely frustration on the bait side due to the fact that plotters can still put out bait that grows roots. Maybe "jealousy" from that is part of the problem, too.
> 
> Oh well.


I think it is more about hypocrisy, than jealousy.

The DNR clearly states that food plonts enhance the risk of disease transmission, it is simply a matter of degrees.

I support a baiting ban to prevent the spread of disease. But the claim that food plots are for the health of the herd in a disease area, is blatant bull $###


----------



## Hunters Edge

sureshot006 said:


> There are lots of worse things that are problems. I will try not to lose sleep over if Johnny B Good uses a carrot while Matilda texts/drives and kills someone. But yeah both are illegal.


So is speeding, going faster than the speed limit. How many posting or reading the posts can honestly say they never went over the speed limit when driving? It's illegal as well.

Not condoning breaking the law just trying to emphasize perspectives. One breaking the law or has, then is against another infraction. Seems a little hipocrisy or at the very least splitting hairs.


----------



## sureshot006

Hunters Edge said:


> So is speeding, going faster than the speed limit. How many posting or reading the posts can honestly say they never went over the speed limit when driving? It's illegal as well.
> 
> Not condoning breaking the law just trying to emphasize perspectives. One breaking the law or has, then is against another infraction. Seems a little hipocrisy or at the very least splitting hairs.


Yea. I competely agree with a fine or whatever for breaking the law. I just dont see it on the level of dealing heroin.


----------



## sureshot006

swampbuck said:


> I think it is more about hypocrisy, than jealousy.
> 
> The DNR clearly states that food plonts enhance the risk of disease transmission, it is simply a matter of degrees.
> 
> I support a baiting ban to prevent the spread of disease. But the claim that food plots are for the health of the herd in a disease area, is blatant bull $###


Could be one, the other, or both.


----------



## John Singer

Trophy Specialist said:


> I wonder how many of the people that will be outraged over piddly baiting violations will think nothing of traffic violations, which actually can result is injury or death to people?


Was it not "piddly" wildlife violations that resulted in CWD being introduced to the free ranging deer herd in Michigan?


----------



## stickbow shooter

Nobody knows how Cwd got here or when it got here.


----------



## Dish7

Wow guys. Texting and driving, speeding, dealing heroin, LMAO. How about murder or human trafficking? This a thread about baiting. I suppose you can start one about anything illegal and get outrage. I personally don't care if people bait or don't bait. Nor do I think that banning it will make a bit of difference in disease control, but these comparisons to crimes that kill people are silly. You really sound desperate to hang on those carrots lol.
BTW, yes I do have a food plot. If they were to outlaw it, so be it. I would just let grow back in to thick cover. Would be better off anyway. JMO.


----------



## Hunters Edge

Page 30 

By adding deer license not antlerless license's.
233,014
366,179 = 599,193

+ 11,662 = 610,855 

This does not count antlerless license, this will be affected by the loss of principal license holders.

If 22% stop buying licenses, could be less could be more but using figures from bTB area translates to 134,388 hunters dropping out.

Which leaves 476,467 hunters buying tags. How many of the 134,388 buys antlerless tags but it will affect the 345,252 antlerless tags as well. Not knowing exactly how or if they bought antlerless tags a 22% decrease on tags for the sake of example could be way off thus I did not figure in any decrease.

Of course this no way is a certanty but gives a glimpse of what may happen. I doubt that the numbers will drop next year but in time without bait these numbers should have similar results of the bTB area in the NE.


----------



## jr28schalm

Dish7 said:


> Wow guys. Texting and driving, speeding, dealing heroin, LMAO. How about murder or human trafficking? This a thread about baiting. I suppose you can start one about anything illegal and get outrage. I personally don't care if people bait or don't bait. Nor do I think that banning it will make a bit of difference in disease control, but these comparisons to crimes that kill people are silly. You really sound desperate to hang on those carrots lol.
> BTW, yes I do have a food plot. If they were to outlaw it, so be it. I would just let grow back in to thick cover. Would be better off anyway. JMO.


Hey, what do you know, I am legal now


----------



## Hunters Edge

Oh I just want to make a point. For those of you who do not consider a successful season by harvesting a deer, please refer to this study. Even the state references or states successful hunters as those who harvest a deer. I think those who think otherwise they grew up or where the ones that changed sports and do not keep score.


----------



## Dish7

Hunters Edge said:


> Oh I just want to make a point. For those of you who do not consider a successful season by harvesting a deer, please refer to this study. Even the state references or states successful hunters as those who harvest a deer. *I think those who think otherwise they grew up or where the ones that changed sports and do not keep score.*


I don't need a study from the state or anyone else to tell me what I consider a successful season. Aren't you the guy always complaining about derogatory remarks? SMH.


----------



## sureshot006

Dish7 said:


> Wow guys. Texting and driving, speeding, dealing heroin, LMAO. How about murder or human trafficking? This a thread about baiting. I suppose you can start one about anything illegal and get outrage. I personally don't care if people bait or don't bait. Nor do I think that banning it will make a bit of difference in disease control, but these comparisons to crimes that kill people are silly. You really sound desperate to hang on those carrots lol.
> BTW, yes I do have a food plot. If they were to outlaw it, so be it. I would just let grow back in to thick cover. Would be better off anyway. JMO.


Point is some people want penalties like murder. I get it, illegal is illegal. Its just funny how some people would crucify a person doing much less of a crime than they've probably done in their lifetime that nobody knows about.


----------



## sureshot006

John Singer said:


> Was it not "piddly" wildlife violations that resulted in CWD being introduced to the free ranging deer herd in Michigan?


Prove it.


----------



## miruss

I've asked this before but never got a answer ! If food plots are legal can i go out in the field out back cut down lets same 2 dozen stalks of corn can i take them out stalks and all and put them in the wood and be legal by saying they are a food plot ( I'LL MAKE SURE THEY ARE STANDING UP)??


----------



## sureshot006

miruss said:


> I've asked this before but never got a answer ! If food plots are legal can i go out in the field out back cut down lets same 2 dozen stalks of corn can i take them out stalks and all and put them in the wood and be legal by saying they are a food plot ( I'LL MAKE SURE THEY ARE STANDING UP)??


They need roots.


----------



## John Singer

sureshot006 said:


> Prove it.


You feeling guilty?


----------



## miruss

sureshot006 said:


> They need roots.


OK so if i PULL THEM OUT i would be good to go !!


----------



## sureshot006

John Singer said:


> You feeling guilty?


Absolutely not. In fact I've never deer hunted any of the counties it's been found. Nor have I brought wildlife (except fish) back to MI from out of state. I have not done any high fence hunts or used urine or whatever that is apparently able to spread cwd.

I'm just really surprised you know where it came from and pin it on violation. You're the only one that knows this for sure.


----------



## State land hunter

brookie1 said:


> Extra antlered tags weren't available until 1991 and it was just two tags for all seasons. It was around 1994 when two antlered tags per season were available for a few years until the combo tag was established in 1998.


As far as I can remember alot of people shot 4 bucks every year....for about 5 to 10 years not sure what years but if you look up Fred Abbas on year shot 4 Michigan record book bucks...that year was 89 or 90....but pretty sure you could shoot 4 bucks for a hand full of years.....1 or 2 years you could buy 4 tags but only use 2.....but growing up I know we could kill 4 bucks in the same year 2 bow and 2 gun


----------



## miruss

nothbound said:


> I admire your ambition. Who knows maybe the deer will come running at sound made carrying noisy corn stalks into the woods and you could be on to something


Got to thinking get a post hole digger make a bunch of holes drop in a sugar beet per hole ,turnip. once all gone just drop another in the hole!


----------



## brookie1

State land hunter said:


> As far as I can remember alot of people shot 4 bucks every year....for about 5 to 10 years not sure what years but if you look up Fred Abbas on year shot 4 Michigan record book bucks...that year was 89 or 90....but pretty sure you could shoot 4 bucks for a hand full of years.....1 or 2 years you could buy 4 tags but only use 2.....but growing up I know we could kill 4 bucks in the same year 2 bow and 2 gun


Edit - I missed the 1986 entry. That was the first year for extra permits. I saw the 1991 entry and thought that was it. In 1991 it started with 2 bucks total all seasons.

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/DEER_REGULATION_HISTORY_210705_7.pdf


----------



## State land hunter

brookie1 said:


> Edit - I missed the 1986 entry. That was the first year for extra permits. I saw the 1991 entry and thought that was it. In 1991 it started with 2 bucks total all seasons.
> 
> https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/DEER_REGULATION_HISTORY_210705_7.pdf


cool i figured at least 5 years worth....back then there was 7 in my family growing up plus doe tags.....i remember 2x a year we cut up at least 10 deer...so even when I was a kid we killed alot of deer.....


----------



## State land hunter

State land hunter said:


> cool i figured at least 5 years worth....back then there was 7 in my family growing up plus doe tags.....i remember 2x a year we cut up at least 10 deer...so even when I was a kid we killed alot of deer.....


here is the funny thing....we killed alot of deer then even my mom.....no one would of ever used bait in my family or put on deer drive....my step father wouldnt stand for it....and alot of my uncles qould never kill a doe...old school...idk.


----------



## brookie1

State land hunter said:


> here is the funny thing....we killed alot of deer then even my mom.....no one would of ever used bait in my family or put on deer drive....my step father wouldnt stand for it....and alot of my uncles qould never kill a doe...old school...idk.


We were the same way. Baiting really became popular as part of the archery craze with the popularity of the compound and then those hunters continued it into the firearm season. I have never used it nor have I wanted to. I also hear these stories about using others tags but I have never known anyone to do that. One thing is for sure, a baiting ban won't stop baiting, it will just slow it down.


----------



## State land hunter

i am done baiting....I never got into it heavy....wasted money on it....i would rather spend my money on a lease and keep the pressure off, plant a food plot, it just cost to much......


----------



## State land hunter

the last 5 bucks I killed where following a doe, and the doe was no where near a bait pile....


----------



## Waif

Gone Coastal said:


> View attachment 350601
> 
> I don’t care if people want to use bait, just follow the law. As for hunting up north without bait not being worth it. Myself and none of my relatives utilize bait and we’ve never lacked for venison. Baiting works for sure but is not a necessity to be successful up north here. No bait for this 11 pointer this year.


Did you and your relatives open your private land to anyone willing to not bait this year , or any year in the past?
A baiting ban will not affect you baiting.
It will those who currently bait ,not on your private property.


jr28schalm said:


> I seen 7 bucks last 2 days. It's a successful season so far for me. I would rather eat tags then add another buck to the workshop wall


Well Jr....You gotta quit huntin in the deer nursery iffin you's want to kill older bucks!


----------



## jr28schalm

Waif said:


> Did you and your relatives open your private land to anyone willing to not bait this year , or any year in the past?
> A baiting ban will not affect you baiting.
> It will those who currently bait ,not on your private property.
> 
> 
> Well Jr....You gotta quit huntin in the deer nursery iffin you's want to kill older bucks!


might just quit hunting and blame it on not being able to bait... I should just sell every thing and get my 500 plant permit


----------



## Waif

jr28schalm said:


> might just quit hunting and blame it on not being able to bait... I should just sell every thing and get my 500 plant permit


Still be competition.


----------



## jr28schalm

Waif said:


> Still be competition.


Yes, I been working on pollen chucking for last 6 months..lol


----------



## Waif

jr28schalm said:


> Yes, I been working on pollen chucking for last 6 months..lol


I was told about Canadian interest more than a year ago. They're here.
Mega scale.
The state fumbled the ball by delaying tactics.
A waste of revenue.

Hundreds of thousands being dropped just to try to get in line.....I know of multiple sites like that.
One I hunted before it sold...Now split and for sale again. Must be it was a no go ,but without big money tossed upfront in sites ,you (anyone) ain't going to be in the big game. Where eventually when and if a go.


----------



## jr28schalm

Waif said:


> I was told about Canadian interest more than a year ago. They're here.
> Mega scale.
> The state fumbled the ball by delaying tactics.
> A waste of revenue.
> 
> Hundreds of thousands being dropped just to try to get in line.....I know of multiple sites like that.
> One I hunted before it sold...Now split and for sale again. Must be it was a no go ,but without big money tossed upfront in sites ,you (anyone) ain't going to be in the big game. Where eventually when and if a go.


Calvin Johnson couldn't get it ether.lol


----------



## Gone Coastal

Waif said:


> Did you and your relatives open your private land to anyone willing to not bait this year , or any year in the past?
> A baiting ban will not affect you baiting.
> It will those who currently bait ,not on your private property.
> 
> 
> Well Jr....You gotta quit huntin in the deer nursery iffin you's want to kill older bucks!


Yes we have let others hunt the property, no big deal.


----------



## Waif

Gone Coastal said:


> Yes we have let others hunt the property, no big deal.


Nice of you! Thanks. It is a big deal if you cured them of needing to bait.


----------



## anon11252019

I will be starting a workshop on hypnotizing deer next year. Cost will be around $150 for a 2 hour session and will include lunch. Corn on the cob, carrots and then apples for dessert.


----------



## NonTypicalCPA

How ticked off will guys be when the Dnr allows the up hunters to bait, but not the lower? Read through the most recent MON.


----------



## Luv2hunteup

W


NonTypicalCPA said:


> How ticked off will guys be when the Dnr allows the up hunters to bait, but not the lower? Read through the most recent MON.


Why would anyone be ticked off? There’s ~6M acres of land open to public hunting that only costs $4 more dollars to access. Those same hunters can go to Ohio, lease land and legally bait by the semi truck load.


----------



## sureshot006

Luv2hunteup said:


> W
> 
> Why would anyone be ticked off? There’s ~6M acres of land open to public hunting that only costs $4 more dollars to access. Those same hunters can go to Ohio, lease land and legally bait by the semi truck load.


Ummmmm.... because it's supposedly in response to CWD and if CWD is in the UP, appropriate measures should be taken... if its appropriate for the lower, why wouldn't it be the same for UP?


----------



## jr28schalm

sniper said:


> If I was a farmer, I'd be cutting..I like money..Apparently not the farmers around here..Ground is frozen now..Im not getting it..
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


I bet there still getting paid


----------



## Scout 2

sniper said:


> If I was a farmer, I'd be cutting..I like money..Apparently not the farmers around here..Ground is frozen now..Im not getting it..
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Probably cost more to dry it than the crop is worth. Look at it this way if they leave it all winter you have the best food plot you could get and its free to you


----------



## QDMAMAN

sureshot006 said:


> Why only baiting violation?



In an effort to stay on topic....


----------



## Waif

QDMAMAN said:


> Maybe folks convicted of baiting violations should be ineligible for any of the special hunts/tags that the MDNR has i.e. elk draw, bear draw, antlerless draw, etc. Skip the fines.


That will only encourage legal methods , IF would be bait violators already participate in those special draws.
If they don't ,it will be of no/little consequence.


----------



## sniper

Scout 2 said:


> Probably cost more to dry it than the crop is worth. Look at it this way if they leave it all winter you have the best food plot you could get and its free to you


That would be great if the crops were actually on my property..Deer are leaving mine for cover and food..

Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Scout 2

sniper said:


> That would be great if the crops were actually on my property..Deer are leaving mine for cover and food..
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


They will be back. Just when you are not thereLOL


----------



## Luv2hunteup

sniper said:


> If I was a farmer, I'd be cutting..I like money..Apparently not the farmers around here..Ground is frozen now..Im not getting it..
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


I misunderstood you when you said “I have hundreds of acres of corn and beans...”. I thought you meant you did not your neighbors.


----------



## Dish7

sniper said:


> That would be great if the crops were actually on my property..Deer are leaving mine for cover and food..
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Posts #256 and #273 are clearly the answer for your problem.


----------



## Guy63

This is kind of like banning shore fishing. The boat, ice fishing and fly fisherman don’t care because they don’t use that method.


----------



## Guy63

Called the ATA and they won’t bless my urine. I guess I have to bring an empty gatoraid bottle afield.


----------



## sureshot006

Guy63 said:


> Called the ATA and they won’t bless my urine. I guess I have to bring an empty gatoraid bottle afield.


Well, hundreds of folks ate CWD infected deer already, so we should probably bring a paint can or something rather than the Gatorade bottle to catch the solids, or more commonly semi solids in the emergency situations.


----------



## 50incher

Guy63 said:


> Called the ATA and they won’t bless my urine. I guess I have to bring an empty gatoraid bottle afield.


Thank goodness for the ATA !....now I feel all warm & fuzzy inside, except for that last post from SS !! ….just gonna be a lurker anymore, lol....

I wish the deer herd, just like the Great Lakes Musky, etc all the best, sincerely....and can only hope the biologists have a stronger say than politicians do....not gonna hold my breath, my best faith is in Mother Nature itself and my fellow man, in the end....

"semi solids" ?!!!!  lmao....cheers....


----------



## PalookaJim

I'm afraid it's misguided optimism to assume that anything the Michigan DNR does will actually benefit the deer herd. This baiting ban will simply be next in a long line of head-scratchers. Like every other state agency, their only interest is in "make work" policies to keep each other employed. One look at the convoluted, rambling ridiculous hunting guide should be enough to convince anybody.


----------



## 50incher

PalookaJim said:


> I'm afraid it's misguided optimism to assume that anything the Michigan DNR does will actually benefit the deer herd.


Just want to clarify in case there was any confusion, lol....my ATA remark along with most all, was pure sarcasm !!….except the faith part, hence not holding my breath....

I have great faith in the younger people, there is always great potential out there, might be after my lifetime but I still have that faith, eventually....

The next several years here in MI. ? ….imo. it's just gonna get more & more "stupider" if that's a word, lol ….cheers....


----------



## G20man

PalookaJim said:


> I'm afraid it's misguided optimism to assume that anything the Michigan DNR does will actually benefit the deer herd. .


When they do finally do the right thing the damage has already been done. 

Just look at how the deer population issues from too many to too little depending on the areas. 

They always pull the trigger to late.


----------



## John Singer

Did the DNR Fairy not bring some of you guys enough deer this year?


----------



## Hillsdales Most Wanted

John Singer said:


> Did the DNR Fairy not bring some of you guys enough deer this year?


Lol. No such thing as "enough deer"


----------



## John Singer

Hillsdales Most Wanted said:


> Lol. No such thing as "enough deer"


Like money or ammunition. There is no such thing as too much.


----------



## 50incher

G20man said:


> When they do finally do the right thing the damage has already been done.
> 
> Just look at how the deer population issues from too many to too little depending on the areas.
> 
> They always pull the trigger to late.


I just can't keep away, lol....I honestly believe and agree that the dnr has for a long time been reactive instead of proactive....again it gets too complicated for me.....too many $$$$'s and private deer/elk/hog farms/ranches/whatever....just too many $$$$'S in general that dictate the rules for the rest of us....

Trying to stay with hunting, but CWD came from somewhere, even though it occurs naturally in mother nature....and the behavior of "us" could very well be the source, or not ?....

I hunted a couple DIYS hunts in Wyoming long after they had CWD....got some nice deer, we always took them to a check station, 1st, and were lucky that we had time to debone them, cut antlers off and cleaned them up....far from 100% of MI. hunters did the same, not MI' dnr's fault, it was already the law....

If biologists REALLY think not baiting is important, I'm all for it....but also feel like it's a drop in the bucket compared to all the other areas of BS already out there....

Baiting will probably go down....will it make a difference for CWD ? I highly doubt it, lol....hunting for the average joe ?....ehhhh....


----------



## Trophy Specialist

For the DNR to blame baiting for the proliferation of CWD is absurd compared to their lack of action. Up to this point, they have spent zero dollars on scientific research to find a cure for CWD. Now that in my opinion is disgraceful as their strategy there is to just someone else do the heavy lifting.


----------



## mbrewer

sureshot006 said:


> Isnt that how we got HIV?


I have no idea how you got HIV.


----------



## sureshot006

mbrewer said:


> I have no idea how you got HIV.


Walked into that one!


----------



## Trophy Specialist

John Singer said:


> Do you have any data to support that?
> 
> Is there any science behind your statement?


Silly question. I love the way some on here demand to see science or data to back up everything to run down someone else. No I do not have any data to support a drop in hunters for next year because that data is not available yet. In the past though, Wisconsin banned baiting similar to what MI is doing along with a CWD outbreak. They saw a significant decrease in hunter numbers as a result that they never did get back. The panic factor also contributed to that I'm sure as it will in MI. If you are so certain that hunter numbers won't be affected next year, then I'll make a wager with you: $100 says it will drop more in 2019 than it did last year with the money going to a charity of the winners choice. I even think this years drop will be worse than last years plunge too due in large part to all the panic that the DNR is fostering and the increased area banned from baiting. If the DNR ramps up baiting infraction enforcement, then the hunter losses will be even worse.


----------



## Trophy Specialist

sureshot006 said:


> Not that I disagree with you but why wasn't there a big drop last time? Violation or did people give it a try?
> 
> There did seem to be a good drop in harvest those years but also within the normal year to year fluctuation.


If memory serves me right, there was a drop in hunter numbers during the bait ban period. Since I didn't bait in the affected area during that period, I don't even remember when it was, so I can't look it up.


----------



## sureshot006

Trophy Specialist said:


> If memory serves me right, there was a drop in hunter numbers during the bait ban period. Since I didn't bait in the affected area during that period, I don't even remember when it was, so I can't look it up.


There was a drop but appeared to be within the normal decline. However, at the same time, xbows brought a lot more hunters into archery season.


----------



## sureshot006

Trophy Specialist said:


> If memory serves me right, there was a drop in hunter numbers during the bait ban period. Since I didn't bait in the affected area during that period, I don't even remember when it was, so I can't look it up.












There was a sharp drop in harvest at the last ban, but there have been sharp drops before that were unrelated to that.

View attachment 352051


----------



## Grandriverrat

Apparently backed into is more like it. 


sureshot006 said:


> Walked into that one!


ked


----------



## 50incher

sureshot006 said:


> I did. I get it. Always have


SS, I would bet my life, you have and do and always will....if I could nominate you, it would be for (director of the DNR)….unless you want to go even higher, lol....no arse kissing here, just respect....always enjoy the discussion from all...cheers....


----------



## sureshot006

50incher said:


> SS, I would bet my life, you have and do and always will....if I could nominate you, it would be for (director of the DNR)….unless you want to go even higher, lol....no arse kissing here, just respect....always enjoy the discussion from all...cheers....


Thanks, but no thanks... There are much better qualified people. I just think this whole thing stinks to high hell for many many people that buy licenses. But, its the new reality of deer hunting with CWD.


----------



## State land hunter

fyi..i just filled my state land doe tag tonight at 504pm...waiting on a buddy to help me drag it out....i think that makes 8 deer this year so far.. yes our numbers are down...but we still have alot of good hunting left....40 degrees tonight....80 yard shot 4 doe came out....good blood trail...


----------



## State land hunter

ya no bait just a corn field that has very little corn left in the farmer plowed it under and what is standing is skinny.....


----------



## John Singer

sureshot006 said:


> No specific study on baiting exists. The studies are not on baiting but they suggest baiting/feeding could increase transmission.


I found this study that was proposed in Wisconsin back in 2004/2005. I cannot find a summary or published paper of this proposed study on the very topic you raise.

http://labs.russell.wisc.edu/samuel/welcome/cwd/environmental-transmission/baiting/

*Role of baiting and feeding in transmission of CWD*

In collaboration with Dr. Tim R. Van Deelen and the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources, this project will evaluate the potential role of supplemental feeding in the direct and indirect transmission of disease in white-tailed deer. In this study, feeding regimes and quantities of feed will be varied at four monitored supplemental feed stations at the Sandhill Wildlife Demonstration Area. A single monitored natural feeding area on the property will serve as the control. The risks for disease transmission associated with supplemental feeding will be estimated through comparison of contact rates of deer at feeding sites and by fecal contamination at sites. The experimental study is to be conducted over the course of two winter (November-February) field seasons during 2003-04 and 2004-05 to evaluate annual differences.

Co-investigator: Timothy R. Van Deelen, Department of Wildlife Ecology, UW-Madison

Student: Abbey K. Thompson, MS. Candidate


----------



## G20man

Will baiting threads ever stop?


----------



## John Singer

Trophy Specialist said:


> Silly question. I love the way some on here demand to see science or data to back up everything to run down someone else. No I do not have any data to support a drop in hunters for next year because that data is not available yet. In the past though, Wisconsin banned baiting similar to what MI is doing along with a CWD outbreak. They saw a significant decrease in hunter numbers as a result that they never did get back. The panic factor also contributed to that I'm sure as it will in MI. If you are so certain that hunter numbers won't be affected next year, then I'll make a wager with you: $100 says it will drop more in 2019 than it did last year with the money going to a charity of the winners choice. I even think this years drop will be worse than last years plunge too due in large part to all the panic that the DNR is fostering and the increased area banned from baiting. If the DNR ramps up baiting infraction enforcement, then the hunter losses will be even worse.


In reality, my question was not silly. Your answer, however was.

I asked if you had any science behind your claim that hunter numbers would drop with a bait ban. You cited Wisconsin. Thank you. I appreciate that.

However, Wisconsin first identified CWD in its deer herd in 2002. It first instituted a statewide baiting ban in 2003.

Here is the history of Wisconsin deer hunters and harvest data from 1966-2015. 

https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/WildlifeHabitat/documents/deerhistory.pdf

Take a careful look. The number of either firearm or archery deer hunters in Wisconsin did not decline in 2003 or 2004. They actually increased.

I am not certain that the number of deer hunters will not decrease next year in Michigan. The number of hunters has been on a downward trend line for several years now. I doubt that you can attribute any change to a single cause.

I will not take you up on your bet. I will donate $100 to a charity of my choice and you do whatever you want with your money. You may well win such a bet on this matter.


----------



## sureshot006

John Singer said:


> I found this study that was proposed in Wisconsin back in 2004/2005. I cannot find a summary or published paper of this proposed study on the very topic you raise.
> 
> http://labs.russell.wisc.edu/samuel/welcome/cwd/environmental-transmission/baiting/
> 
> *Role of baiting and feeding in transmission of CWD*
> 
> In collaboration with Dr. Tim R. Van Deelen and the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources, this project will evaluate the potential role of supplemental feeding in the direct and indirect transmission of disease in white-tailed deer. In this study, feeding regimes and quantities of feed will be varied at four monitored supplemental feed stations at the Sandhill Wildlife Demonstration Area. A single monitored natural feeding area on the property will serve as the control. The risks for disease transmission associated with supplemental feeding will be estimated through comparison of contact rates of deer at feeding sites and by fecal contamination at sites. The experimental study is to be conducted over the course of two winter (November-February) field seasons during 2003-04 and 2004-05 to evaluate annual differences.
> 
> Co-investigator: Timothy R. Van Deelen, Department of Wildlife Ecology, UW-Madison
> 
> Student: Abbey K. Thompson, MS. Candidate


Sounds like they never did it? I mean, it sounds like eventually someone would compare various methods like live plants vs single bite vs sugar beets vs natural browse, seeing as CWD is spreading across the US and we need all the data we can get.


----------



## John Singer

sureshot006 said:


> Sounds like they never did it?


I know. It is strange. Either it was not done or it was done poorly and did not merit publication.

My other thought is that it may be published somewhere and is not uploaded to the internet.


----------



## Trophy Specialist

John Singer said:


> In reality, my question was not silly. Your answer, however was.
> 
> I asked if you had any science behind your claim that hunter numbers would drop with a bait ban. You cited Wisconsin. Thank you. I appreciate that.
> 
> However, Wisconsin first identified CWD in its deer herd in 2002. It first instituted a statewide baiting ban in 2003.
> 
> Here is the history of Wisconsin deer hunters and harvest data from 1966-2015.
> 
> https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/WildlifeHabitat/documents/deerhistory.pdf
> 
> Take a careful look. The number of either firearm or archery deer hunters in Wisconsin did not decline in 2003 or 2004. They actually increased.
> 
> I am not certain that the number of deer hunters will not decrease next year in Michigan. The number of hunters has been on a downward trend line for several years now. I doubt that you can attribute any change to a single cause.
> 
> I will not take you up on your bet. I will donate $100 to a charity of my choice and you do whatever you want with your money. You may well win such a bet on this matter.


Wrong once again. CWD was discovered in Wisconsin in 2002 and baiting was banned statewide that year with a huge drop in hunter numbers as a result. In 2003 the reinstated baiting and hunter numbers increased but not to 2002 levels. I hunted WI then. I can see why you would not want take my bet as it would a certain looser for you.


----------



## John Singer

Trophy Specialist said:


> Wrong once again. CWD was discovered in Wisconsin in 2002 and baiting was banned statewide that year with a huge drop in hunter numbers as a result. In 2003 the reinstated baiting and hunter numbers increased but not to 2002 levels. I hunted WI then. I can see why you would not want take my bet as it would a certain looser for you.


I stand corrected.


----------



## State land hunter

John Singer said:


> I stand corrected.


the question I have will the DNR continue to test for CWD for free.....I am dropping a head off today for testing....if I have to pay I would think 2x about killing so many deer....it might be cheaper to buy a cow.....


----------



## MrFysch

G20man said:


> Will baiting threads ever stop?


No


----------



## Rut-N-Strut

nothbound said:


> Where is it so bad in Wisconsin?? I hunt 7 counties in Wisconsin and for the most part no one even mentions it anymore. Hunting was terrible for a few years after initial panic as the herd was decimated but things have improved greatly. Still big bucks to be had. I generally put at least 8 deer a year in the freezer, never have them tested. Mandatory in person registration is no longer required. None of us have turned into zombies yet either. My dogs eat a good amount of venison as well and they haven't turned into werewolves either.
> The only upside to finding cwd and freaking out about it as happened earlier in Wisconsin has been that bait gets banned making hunting a bit easier for some


Here is a link.

https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/wildlifehabitat/regulations.html

.


----------



## Luv2hunteup

ridgewalker said:


> If a hunter has a 40 with nothing but jackpine or any pine, and there are no adjacent ag properties, and no food plots are made, well that hunter might be pretty hard pressed to see a deer move unless a neighbor has some effective food plots, or the only water found in 5 miles is on the hunter's property, or is adjacent to it.
> 
> I am sorry but I had to try to make a post like one of the old math problems where train A goes so fast and train B goes so fast. Now where do they meet? Having math as one of my majors, I still thought, "who really cares?" If you are on one of the trains, you just want to jump off and if you are not, you are thanking God. That seems like some of these posts! (I am not referring to you, one nation. I just used your quote.  )


I would say the owner of that land should list it right away and purchase a higher quality piece of ground if he is a deer hunter. It might cost a bit more but the improved hunting would be worth it. The way you paint the picture of that 40 makes it sound like it has zero value.

Btw I have tracks not far from camp and enjoy the trains going by but would not place a monetary value on it.


----------



## sureshot006

Luv2hunteup said:


> I would say the owner of that land should list it right away and purchase a higher quality piece of ground if he is a deer hunter. It might cost a bit more but the improved hunting would be worth it. The way you paint the picture of that 40 makes it sound like it has zero value.
> 
> Btw I have tracks not far from camp and enjoy the trains going by but would not place a monetary value on it.


It's just that simple when it's not your money, right?

Land in NELP is what... 1500/acre or so? Now what is it in SLP?


----------



## Luv2hunteup

A


sureshot006 said:


> It's just that simple when it's not your money, right?
> 
> Land in NELP is what... 1500/acre or so? Now what is it in SLP?


Actually it is that simple. If something is useless just cut your losses and move on. If you own something that doesn’t bring you joy and only regret. It’s time to move on. What good is money if you don’t spend it? In this case it’s an investment that can bring you happyness not disappointment.


----------



## nothbound

sureshot006 said:


> It's just that simple when it's not your money, right?
> 
> Land in NELP is what... 1500/acre or so? Now what is it in SLP?


Land is worth what someone will pay. If you love telephone poles a plantation 40 is worth a ton while a hunter may deem it worthless, much like most non hunter types would think a swamp is worthless while some hunters flock to them. Deer are not liberals, they don't disperse themselves equally per acre no matter what it's 'value'may be


----------



## sureshot006

Luv2hunteup said:


> A
> 
> Actually it is that simple. If something is useless just cut your losses and move on. If you own something that doesn’t bring you joy and only regret. It’s time to move on. What good is money if you don’t spend it? In this case it’s an investment that can bring you happyness not disappointment.


Just sticking up for a lot of folks who aren't in your position and who will feel forced to move.


----------



## sureshot006

nothbound said:


> Land is worth what someone will pay. If you love telephone poles a plantation 40 is worth a ton while a hunter may deem it worthless, much like most non hunter types would think a swamp is worthless while some hunters flock to them. Deer are not liberals, they don't disperse themselves equally per acre no matter what it's 'value'may be


Yep and I know several properties that have been for sale for years. I suppose asking is too high.


----------



## nothbound

sureshot006 said:


> Yep and I know several properties that have been for sale for years. I suppose asking is too high.


100% true


----------



## sureshot006

nothbound said:


> 100% true


Yep. And it was worth same or more before baiting was banned years ago.


----------



## mattawanhunter

I hate it when the deer season starts to come to an end and these are the only topics that are left!

On a positive note CWD in the U P still has only confirmed the one case!

Are they banning bait in the upper peninsula?


----------



## FullQuiver

mattawanhunter said:


> On a positive note CWD in the U P still has only confirmed the one case!
> 
> Are they banning bait in the upper peninsula?



They will have to or the outcry from the Lower about unfair treatment will be outlandish and with good reason... It's time for the NRC to **** or get off from the pot.. They need to decide what their position is going to be.. Playing both sides of the fence isn't going to fly in this climate of disease...


----------



## State land hunter

how many of u r going to hunt rhe final 7 days off season....


----------



## toppm

State land hunter said:


> how many of u r going to hunt rhe final 7 days off season....


Heading out today.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Chessieman

FullQuiver said:


> They will have to or the outcry from the Lower about unfair treatment will be outlandish and with good reason... It's time for the NRC to **** or get off from the pot.. They need to decide what their position is going to be.. Playing both sides of the fence isn't going to fly in this climate of disease...


What are you going to do? How about marching in Lansing wearing a orange hat demanding equal baiting rights! The UP is a different environment with heavy woods and a lot fewer deer density. Southern Michigan has farm fed deer with a smorgasbord to eat and you want to set up another table?


----------



## FullQuiver

Chessieman said:


> What are you going to do? How about marching in Lansing wearing a orange hat demanding equal baiting rights! The UP is a different environment with heavy woods and a lot fewer deer density. Southern Michigan has farm fed deer with a smorgasbord to eat and you want to set up another table?


Personally I am anti baiting... I hope it is banned everywhere...

However it seems disingenuous to say that banning baiting is about congregation of deer and disease spread when they travel long distances and congregate in numbers unusual to the generally occurring dpsm levels. Then feed and bait these same deer with the potential for disease occurrence. when baiting in the lower. Especially the SLP where basically no yarding happens... 

You might not believe it but deer existed in the UP before people baited and supplemented their winter food...

Because the UP is different is exactly why baiting should be banned proactively.... If baiting and feeding can spread CWD it (baiting) will likely have a broader impact than in the LP... 

I am also saying that in the current environment of whining about baiting that making a special exception for the UP, with no sound science to continue to allow baiting and supplemented feeding, is going to bring it (whining) to a crescendo... Just not by me...


----------



## JDHunts

FullQuiver said:


> Personally I am anti baiting... I hope it is banned everywhere...
> 
> However it seems disingenuous to say that banning baiting is about congregation of deer and disease spread when they travel long distances and congregate in numbers unusual to the generally occurring dpsm levels. Then feed and bait these same deer with the potential for disease occurrence. when baiting in the lower. Especially the SLP where basically no yarding happens...
> 
> You might not believe it but deer existed in the UP before people baited and supplemented their winter food...
> 
> Because the UP is different is exactly why baiting should be banned proactively.... If baiting and feeding can spread CWD it (baiting) will likely have a broader impact than in the LP...
> 
> I am also saying that in the current environment of whining about baiting that making a special exception for the UP, with no sound science to continue to allow baiting and supplemented feeding, is going to bring it (whining) to a crescendo... Just not by me...


Or maybe leave the app's and baiting in the U P, see if it spreads, why not try different approach seeing as how nothing seems to work in the lower. It's not going to hurt to try something different.


----------



## State land hunter

toppm said:


> Heading out today.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


I am headed out at 2pm.....


----------



## State land hunter

I got the results of my doe ....no cwd...both deer tested are ok


----------



## FullQuiver

JDHunts said:


> Or maybe leave the app's and baiting in the U P, see if it spreads, why not try different approach seeing as how nothing seems to work in the lower. It's not going to hurt to try something different.


So if it spreads it far and wide it isn't hurting anything...


----------



## JDHunts

FullQuiver said:


> So if it spreads it far and wide it isn't hurting anything...


Isn't that the prediction anyway, everywhere it's shown up? Ok, keep on doing the same thing and expect different results, we know what that is.


----------



## Trophy Specialist

It's always "nice" to see people wanting to impact the U.P. deer regulations without knowing much of anything about that deer herd and also without have any interest in hunting there. If baiting and feeding are banned in the U.P. then over half the deer herd will be lost there from that alone. Some areas that have deer now would be virtually void of deer as a result. CWD will never kill even a small fraction of that kind of a senseless deer loss. The people in the U.P. will not stand for it and the DNR knows it. Because I have 12 food plots on my property, a baiting ban may not negatively impact my hunting at first, but even though I don't feed deer supplementally, I know very well that during the winter, the efforts of other people that do feed deer is what sustains the herd during hard winters there. Eventually even my hunting would suck I'm sure if it were banned.


----------



## Hillsdales Most Wanted

Trophy Specialist said:


> It's always "nice" to see people wanting to impact the U.P. deer regulations without knowing much of anything about that deer herd and also without have any interest in hunting there. If baiting and feeding are banned in the U.P. then over half the deer herd will be lost there from that alone. Some areas that have deer now would be virtually void of deer as a result. CWD will never kill even a small fraction of that kind of a senseless deer loss. The people in the U.P. will not stand for it and the DNR knows it. Because I have 12 food plots on my property, a baiting ban may not negatively impact my hunting at first, but even though I don't feed deer supplementally, I know very well that during the winter, the efforts of other people that do feed deer is what sustains the herd during hard winters there. Eventually even my hunting would suck I'm sure if it were banned.


Kinda like when those UP hunters say the SLP has too many deer and we need to kill them all to save the rest of the state from cwd??


----------



## LuckyBucks

Do deer yard up in southern Dickson county where the cwd was found? I think the yards are all north of there by ~50 miles.


----------



## Trophy Specialist

Hillsdales Most Wanted said:


> Kinda like when those UP hunting turds say the SLP has too many deer and we need to kill them all to save the rest of the state from cwd??


Crap like that is really not going to make you appear credible.


----------



## Luv2hunteup

A good compromise would be no baiting or closed deer season in every CWD Management DMU that has greater than a single deer per sq mile population estimate. The DNR could reevaluate population numbers on their 3 year management cycles to keep it simple. That would hardly have impact on deer hunters statewide, less than a dozen and one half counties would be impacted. Win win for entire state plus a good incentive to bring it down where it exists quickly. It’s not like a hunter can get more than a dozens tags per year without special tags. Bringing any zone’s deer population down to those levels wouldn’t hurt a thing. CWD and bTB is not found in low population DMUs.


----------



## buckguts1970

Luv2hunteup said:


> A good compromise would be no baiting or closed deer season in every CWD Management DMU that has greater than a single deer per sq mile population estimate. The DNR could reevaluate population numbers on their 3 year management cycles to keep it simple. That would hardly have impact on deer hunters statewide, less than a dozen and one half counties would be impacted. Win win for entire state plus a good incentive to bring it down where it exists quickly. It’s not like a hunter can get more than a dozens tags per year without special tags. Bringing any zone’s deer population down to those levels wouldn’t hurt a thing. CWD and bTB is not found in low population DMUs.


Sounds like a great idea for northern part of the state and the upper peninsula. With TB and CWD being found there and the fact they need extra feed to get through winter. What the hunters don’t get the wolves will clean up


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Hunters Edge

Either ban baiting state wide or allow baiting state wide, no exceptions. Same disease, same reasoning for banning bait, same state, no reason therefore for different regulations.


----------



## Chessieman

Dam, wish we we have won the Toledo war!


----------



## Tilden Hunter

Trophy Specialist said:


> It's always "nice" to see people wanting to impact the U.P. deer regulations without knowing much of anything about that deer herd and also without have any interest in hunting there. If baiting and feeding are banned in the U.P. then over half the deer herd will be lost there from that alone. Some areas that have deer now would be virtually void of deer as a result. CWD will never kill even a small fraction of that kind of a senseless deer loss. The people in the U.P. will not stand for it and the DNR knows it. Because I have 12 food plots on my property, a baiting ban may not negatively impact my hunting at first, but even though I don't feed deer supplementally, I know very well that during the winter, the efforts of other people that do feed deer is what sustains the herd during hard winters there. Eventually even my hunting would suck I'm sure if it were banned.


Nonsense.


----------



## Tilden Hunter

Hunters Edge said:


> Either ban baiting state wide or allow baiting state wide, no exceptions. Same disease, same reasoning for banning bait, same state, no reason therefore for different regulations.


This is good sense. I used to advocate leaving baiting legal while encouraging hunters to abandon the practice. Now the practice of baiting is a hunting luxury we can no longer afford.


----------



## Tilden Hunter

buckguts1970 said:


> Sounds like a great idea for northern part of the state and the upper peninsula. With TB and CWD being found there and the fact they need extra feed to get through winter. What the hunters don’t get the wolves will clean up
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


The U. P.* does not* need extra feed to get through winter. Winter feeding is what has kept the population artificially high and destroyed the winter feed. The only workable solution is no winter feeding and let the habitat be the limitation on population.


----------



## Hunters Edge

Tilden Hunter said:


> This is good sense. I used to advocate leaving baiting legal while encouraging hunters to abandon the practice. Now the practice of baiting is a hunting luxury we can no longer afford.


I disagree. I see no difference to baiting vs food plots vs natural food source, vs AG, vs clear-cuts leaving browse to attract deer and to create nose to nose.

I just do not believe a state should ban one location that is not a CWD zone LP but not ban another location UP. I also do not believe CWD areas in LP including buffer zones that have no diagnosed CWD case in them should ban baiting and feeding. Yet the state allows CWD areas in the UP to bait and feed deer total different regulations and response plans toward CWD. It seems to open the state up to class action law suits. Not just for those wanting to bait or feed deer but allowing the spread of CWD in the UP as well. Not taking same steps to control the spread. 

Not taking the same steps/regulations also alienates hunters, hunting and also divides or causes a division. We will see in just a few years our ranks plummeting. Not just from the ban but for different regulations in response to CWD.


----------



## Waif

Yep.
Either ban supplemental feeding statewide , or don't ban it in only part of the state.
Food artificially introduced deliberately for deer whether dumped or planted is supplemental to habitat carrying capacity.
Where 50 lbs of natural browse per acre is not enough for the deer on it to not over-browse it ,there are too many deer. Regardless of numbers.

Banning bait is banning supplemental feeding to avoid congregating deer.
And if any one wants to argue that winter supplementation of feed does not congregate deer ....
They're supplementing food where deer are either unable to reach it , deer don't exist ,or they don't want it.


----------



## Tilden Hunter

Hunters Edge: I'm struggling to understand what your position is. I advocate a state wide baiting ban because of the CWD. Is this different than what you advocate?


----------



## Hunters Edge

Tilden Hunter said:


> Hunters Edge: I'm struggling to understand what your position is. I advocate a state wide baiting ban because of the CWD. Is this different than what you advocate?


I do not advocate banning bait, for I do not see this as a act to stop CWD from spreading. I do advocate banning supplimental feeding. This decreases the harvest for those using bait and allows that deer if not harvested to spread CWD both direct and inderect transferrence for a year or more.

If the state chooses to ban baiting and feeding they need to do it state wide and not pick and choose. Almost like who you know rather than what you know when looking for a job. Preference is being given and not fair and equal response to the disease (CWD).

Also by not having a state wide baiting ban or a state wide legal to use bait causes a division among hunters and will ultimately cause disinterest and loss of sales.

There is no difference from a oak tree, hickory tree, beechnut, apple, crabapple, pear, food plot, AG field, or logging practice to congregate deer. Therefore there is no difference from the above vs baiting, it does the exact same thing. The only difference is by making one illegal to use will in affect stop many from buying hunting licenses and will also hurt economics and economic growth in Michigan.

I hope that answers your question.


----------



## State land hunter

tonight I didnt see any deer, my buddy saw 5 doe almost got a shot, we r in a CWD management area private land tonight....no bait, saw a little 6pt and a 10pt on the trail cam both durning early morning shootings hours.....


----------



## cakebaker

I'm assuming the single bite bait will be banned for hunters with disabilities also in 2019?


----------



## sureshot006

cakebaker said:


> I'm assuming the single bite bait will be banned for hunters with disabilities also in 2019?


I believe (please look at the regs because I am going by crappy memory) it is legal only during the special hunts. So if you're disabled and want to bait more than a couple days a year, too bad.


----------



## PWood

State land hunter said:


> how many of u r going to hunt the final 7 days off season....


I'll be out Fri.-Tues.


----------



## State land hunter

people need to learn what natural bait is.....and what times of year deer eat it.....


----------



## State land hunter

PWood said:


> I'll be out Fri.-Tues.


private or state


----------



## PWood

Private in Manistee Co. and/or state in Wexford Co.


----------



## State land hunter

A question I have is....what is the goal for 2019 deer heard....does the DNR want us to kill more deer? or less, or the same....pretty easy either way....if they want to control cwd then maybe we should kill more deer....I think they should have us register our harvest....so they know how many we kill....this year my sons and I have only tested the 2 deer killed in CWD Man Areas...the other 6 did not get tested...I think the DNR have no clue how many deer get killed or are still alive at the end


----------



## State land hunter

PWood said:


> Private in Manistee Co. and/or state in Wexford Co.


have you been seeing a lot of deer?


----------



## sureshot006

State land hunter said:


> A question I have is....what is the goal for 2019 deer heard....does the DNR want us to kill more deer? or less, or the same....pretty easy either way....if they want to control cwd then maybe we should kill more deer....I think they should have us register our harvest....so they know how many we kill....this year my sons and I have only tested the 2 deer killed in CWD Man Areas...the other 6 did not get tested...I think the DNR have no clue how many deer get killed or are still alive at the end


You can't force people to kill more deer. It takes conscious effort on the part of hunters. At a certain point it becomes an inconvenience to take additional deer.


----------



## State land hunter

not force....but make it easier, good example..CWD areas we use guns til Dec 23rd for either sex, and now late antler-less season we can atill use guns...so it is easier for sure to fill the tags this year...


----------



## PWood

State land hunter said:


> have you been seeing a lot of deer?


Haven't been out in 2-1/2 weeks. Before that, yes. At that time there were still 3 decent bucks and numerous does moving around the area.


----------



## State land hunter

PWood said:


> Haven't been out in 2-1/2 weeks. Before that, yes. At that time there were still 3 decent bucks and numerous does moving around the area.


good deal, are you using bait?


----------



## PWood

I have 4 stands but only bait 1. So, it depends which way the wind blows, literally.


----------



## sureshot006

State land hunter said:


> good deal, are you using bait?


You can't see decent bucks with bait...


----------



## State land hunter

PWood said:


> I have 4 stands but only bait 1. So, it depends which way the wind blows, literally.


nice, you never know where the deer are tonight the deer when into amd against the wind.....a little bait might be a good insurance this time of yeat


----------



## State land hunter

sureshot006 said:


> You can't see decent bucks with bait...


idk about that where I have my cell cam there was 4 nice bucks most of the season chasing doe off the bait to bread them....so you never know this time of the year


----------



## sureshot006

State land hunter said:


> idk about that where I have my cell cam there was 4 nice bucks most of the season chasing doe off the bait to bread them....so you never know this time of the year


I was being facetious.


----------



## State land hunter

sureshot006 said:


> I was being facetious.


I see...lol


----------



## Hunters Edge

State land hunter said:


> people need to learn what natural bait is.....and what times of year deer eat it.....


Thats a great point people do not need or better example do not need to buy a deer or base license.


----------



## State land hunter

Hunters Edge said:


> Thats a great point people do not need or better example do not need to buy a deer or base license.


the base license is a joke....we need to figure away out of that....can we call some one on that....if we are going to pay for it then it should include things like fishing, turkey ect...


----------



## Tilden Hunter

State land hunter said:


> the base license is a joke....we need to figure away out of that....can we call some one on that....if we are going to pay for it then it should include things like fishing, turkey ect...


That's a horrible idea. I do not want the cost of fishing, turkey or anything else rolled into the base license.


----------



## Trophy Specialist

Tilden Hunter said:


> Nonsense.


Exactly what in my post was nonsense?


----------



## Tilden Hunter

Trophy Specialist said:


> Exactly what in my post was nonsense?


"If baiting and feeding are banned in the U.P. then over half the deer herd will be lost there from that alone. Some areas that have deer now would be virtually void of deer as a result." This part.


----------



## Trophy Specialist

Tilden Hunter said:


> "If baiting and feeding are banned in the U.P. then over half the deer herd will be lost there from that alone. Some areas that have deer now would be virtually void of deer as a result." This part.


So you believe then that feeding of deer in the U.P. does not keep a lot of them from starving to death? If that is the case, then the vast majority of U.P. deer hunters and even the DNR disagrees with you.


----------



## G20man

swampbuck said:


> DNR Mission Statement..... "The Michigan Department of Natural Resources is committed to the conservation, protection, management, use and enjoyment of the state's natural and cultural resources for current and future generations."
> 
> .


Mission statements are just a bunch of words, a feel good business tactic. 

Enron's *motto* was "*Respect*, *Integrity*,*Communication* and *Excellence*." Its "*Vision* and Values" mission statement declared, "We treat others as we would like to be treated ourselves....We do not tolerate abusive or disrespectful treatment. Ruthlessness, callousness and arrogance don't belong here."


----------



## Sportingman1954

I have Never Baited and Never
will .
All You Master Baiters
will have to learn to know how
to find bedding areas, scrapes
rubs, runways and the life of
deer ... Learn how to hunt your
game or stay out of the forrests
I get my venison Every yr in
Alger county... No Bait ... feed

or salt on the tail...
LEARN HOW TO HUNT your
quarry NOT MURDER THEM 
OVER YOUR Master Baiter
pile.
Paul.


----------



## Yamirider

Sportingman1954 said:


> I have Never Baited and Never
> will .
> All You Master Baiters
> will have to learn to know how
> to find bedding areas, scrapes
> rubs, runways and the life of
> deer ... Learn how to hunt your
> game or stay out of the forrests
> I get my venison Every yr in
> Alger county... No Bait ... feed
> 
> or salt on the tail...
> LEARN HOW TO HUNT your
> quarry NOT MURDER THEM
> OVER YOUR Master Baiter
> pile.
> Paul.


All hail the Master Hunter.


----------



## G20man

Sportingman1954 said:


> I have Never Baited and Never
> will .
> All You Master Baiters
> will have to learn to know how
> to find bedding areas, scrapes
> rubs, runways and the life of
> deer ... Learn how to hunt your
> game or stay out of the forrests
> I get my venison Every yr in
> Alger county... No Bait ... feed
> 
> or salt on the tail...
> LEARN HOW TO HUNT your
> quarry NOT MURDER THEM
> OVER YOUR Master Baiter
> pile.
> Paul.


With no baiting threads we'll never have this type of entertainment.


----------



## Tilden Hunter

Yamirider said:


> All hail the Master Hunter.


of the_ forrest_.


----------



## jeffm

Sportingman1954 said:


> I have Never Baited and Never
> will .
> find bedding areas, scrapes
> rubs, runways and the life of
> deer ...
> I get my venison Every yr in
> Alger county... No Bait ... feed
> Paul.


I omitted the ******** that pisses me off about that way of thinking. But anyhow...all the rest you wrote about is more enjoyable then the hunt it self imo. Thats my two cents and to each there own is my thought.


----------



## sureshot006

Tilden Hunter said:


> of the_ forrest_.


----------



## Trophy Specialist

Sportingman1954 said:


> I have Never Baited and Never
> will .
> All You Master Baiters
> will have to learn to know how
> to find bedding areas, scrapes
> rubs, runways and the life of
> deer ... Learn how to hunt your
> game or stay out of the forrests
> I get my venison Every yr in
> Alger county... No Bait ... feed
> 
> or salt on the tail...
> LEARN HOW TO HUNT your
> quarry NOT MURDER THEM
> OVER YOUR Master Baiter
> pile.
> Paul.


I am skeptical. Unless I see photos of at least one buck per year shot where and how you claim, I'm thinking this is just another trolling thread.


----------



## Gizzard

OK so I'm late to the party and didn't have time to read all the posts. So if I repeat no need to yell. Did anyone hear that food plots are still ok for now, but soon there will even be a restriction on what kind of "products" are in the food plot ?


----------



## DirtySteve

sureshot006 said:


> View attachment 357759


I love it!.....that's the wave I use to greet my wife when I am mowing the lawn and she pulls in the drive. Also a great one to use at school functions like football games when I see my kids on the field or in the crowd. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## mattawanhunter

* MS New Year's Resolution No Baiting or APR threads *


*How about it Guys,
Great site, LFTS, blinds,where to hunt,food plots, new equipment reviews scouting advice, successful hunters land and deer camp stories.... all good stuff!

How about for a 2019 Resolution.
NO MORE BAITING or
APR TREADS, PLEASE!

Wishing you all a Happy New Year and wishes for a kinder gentler Michigan Sportsman with less bickering!

Let's have more unity in the shrinking hunting Brotherhood!*


----------



## stickbow shooter

Gizzard said:


> OK so I'm late to the party and didn't have time to read all the posts. So if I repeat no need to yell. Did anyone hear that food plots are still ok for now, but soon there will even be a restriction on what kind of "products" are in the food plot ?


I have heard rumors on other sites about banning of certain plots. But just rumors.


----------



## ART

Sportingman1954 said:


> I have Never Baited and Never
> will .
> All You Master Baiters
> will have to learn to know how
> to find bedding areas, scrapes
> rubs, runways and the life of
> deer ... Learn how to hunt your
> game or stay out of the forrests
> I get my venison Every yr in
> Alger county... No Bait ... feed
> 
> or salt on the tail...
> LEARN HOW TO HUNT your
> quarry NOT MURDER THEM
> OVER YOUR Master Baiter
> pile.
> Paul.


works good for you folk that have property big enough for the whole life of a deer.....some only hunt 10 acres....kinda hard for a deer to live on 10 acres..
And.....
Baiting and food plots should be considered the same thing


----------



## Tilden Hunter

Gizzard said:


> OK so I'm late to the party and didn't have time to read all the posts. So if I repeat no need to yell. Did anyone hear that food plots are still ok for now, but soon there will even be a restriction on what kind of "products" are in the food plot ?


I'm sorry, but you'll have to read all 548 prior posts before we'll answer. The eye can see which ones you skipped, so don't try to fool us.


----------



## ART

The premise of the poll....are you asking people to confess to breaking the law?


----------



## sureshot006

ART said:


> The premise of the poll....are you asking people to confess to breaking the law?


Kinda strange right?


----------



## bowhunter426

ART said:


> The premise of the poll....are you asking people to confess to breaking the law?


Considering that the ban doesn't go into effect statewide until 1/31/19 you would not be admitting to breaking any laws


----------



## mattawanhunter

* MS New Year's Resolution No Baiting or APR threads *


*How about it Guys,
Great site, LFTS, blinds,where to hunt,food plots, new equipment reviews scouting advice, successful hunters land and deer camp stories.... all good stuff!

How about for a 2019 Resolution.
NO MORE BAITING or
APR TREADS, PLEASE!

Wishing you all a Happy New Year and wishes for a kinder gentler Michigan Sportsman with less bickering!

Let's have more unity in the shrinking hunting Brotherhood! *


----------



## sureshot006

mattawanhunter said:


> * MS New Year's Resolution No Baiting or APR threads *
> 
> 
> *How about it Guys,
> Great site, LFTS, blinds,where to hunt,food plots, new equipment reviews scouting advice, successful hunters land and deer camp stories.... all good stuff!
> 
> How about for a 2019 Resolution.
> NO MORE BAITING or
> APR TREADS, PLEASE!
> 
> Wishing you all a Happy New Year and wishes for a kinder gentler Michigan Sportsman with less bickering!
> 
> Let's have more unity in the shrinking hunting Brotherhood! *


Already posted that here. It's like the gym membership anyway


----------



## Waif

mattawanhunter said:


> * MS New Year's Resolution No Baiting or APR threads *
> 
> 
> *How about it Guys,
> Great site, LFTS, blinds,where to hunt,food plots, new equipment reviews scouting advice, successful hunters land and deer camp stories.... all good stuff!
> 
> How about for a 2019 Resolution.
> NO MORE BAITING or
> APR TREADS, PLEASE!
> 
> Wishing you all a Happy New Year and wishes for a kinder gentler Michigan Sportsman with less bickering!
> 
> Let's have more unity in the shrinking hunting Brotherhood! *


No.
Issues remain. 
Ignoring them does not make them go away.


----------



## GIDEON

sureshot006 said:


> I honestly dont think that'll happen.


Wouldn't surprise me if it happened, but that would be ok.


----------



## sureshot006

GIDEON said:


> Wouldn't surprise me if it happened, but that would be ok.


I just can't see it but maybe you're right.

Food plots are multi bite foods so I'm not sure what to think of them. Seems worse than corn spread out but I guess studies unrelated to CWD have shown otherwise.


----------



## Tilden Hunter

Scout 2 said:


> What is really going to hurt is if baiting is legal again many of those that dropped out will have moved on to something different. Now for the big one if they start messing with the food plots, listen to the crying on here and I expect many of them to drop out because they cannot kill a deer without them


Just how are they going to outlaw gardening? I've heard of waterfowl hunting cases where the crops were prosecuted for being bait, but that's an easier case to prove than clover.


----------



## feedinggrounds

GIDEON said:


> Start off with a minimum 500 dollar fine, loss of hunting privileges for a year, and work up from there for the fines. Baiting will stop.


It is not that level of crime. Everyone thinks baiting is some felony or should be.


----------



## feedinggrounds

Hunters Edge said:


> I think it will drop as well. But feel the second or third year for full impact on loss of hunters. The first year will be those that basically have to use bait, disabled, old and those having medical issues. The first year some will not know of the ban but once found out will feel uncomfortable, or instead of injoying the time outdoors it will create undo stress or increased stress. Those experiencing this will not continue to bait and if not seeing deer will not buy licenses the second or the third year. Some will get caught and fined and some of those will stop hunting. If illegal deer harvest besides or use of bait the state usually prevents them from purchasing a license.
> 
> In the end it will stop or decrease revenue from license sales. It will decrease deer harvest because less hunters in the woods. It will decrease deer harvest for not utilizing bait to harvest deer. It will also increase the spread of CWD because those deer not harvested are spreading the disease.
> 
> Not to mention the impact on economic growth in the state.


Thank you, a better way of saying what I have been saying for a while now. I will spend more time fall steelhead fishing, and if fur prices rise just a bit a much bigger trapline.


----------



## feedinggrounds

Tilden Hunter said:


> Just how are they going to outlaw gardening? I've heard of waterfowl hunting cases where the crops were prosecuted for being bait, but that's an easier case to prove than clover.


Gardening, tomatoes, beans, peppers, squash and such. I garden for veggies and I plant food plots, they are different, all the way around. It would be very easy to tell a garden for human food from a deer hunting bait plot. I think anyway.


----------



## Tilden Hunter

feedinggrounds said:


> Gardening, tomatoes, beans, peppers, squash and such. I garden for veggies and I plant food plots, they are different, all the way around. It would be very easy to tell a garden for human food from a deer hunting bait plot. I think anyway.


You and I can see the difference, but try putting that into enforceable legal language. That's a tougher problem.


----------



## sureshot006

Tilden Hunter said:


> Just how are they going to outlaw gardening? I've heard of waterfowl hunting cases where the crops were prosecuted for being bait, but that's an easier case to prove than clover.


What the hell is clover being used for? Honey bees?


----------



## G20man

sureshot006 said:


> What the hell is clover being used for? Honey bees?


It's planted by farmers to improve soil. 
Also used for grazing animals.


----------



## John Singer

Waif said:


> A.P.R.'s and baiting....
> ...A.P.R.'s and bait are only today's topics.


I suggest that A.P.R's and a ban on deer bait are in direct conflict.

I have hunted both with and without bait. I find it much more difficult to evaluate the quality or legality of a buck without bait.

I am by no means saying that it cannot be done but it is usually easier with bait involved.


----------



## sureshot006

G20man said:


> It's planted by farmers to improve soil.
> Also used for grazing animals.


Right in front of a deer blind on a property with no livestock... cmon. Its no easier or harder to prove a case. But then again I'm not a lawyer with zero experience in the woods.


----------



## GIDEON

feedinggrounds said:


> It is not that level of crime. Everyone thinks baiting is some felony or should be.


There is no such level of crime. Right is right, illegal activities should never be tolerated, nor should one try to justify by comparison.


----------



## Waif

John Singer said:


> I suggest that A.P.R's and a ban on deer bait are in direct conflict.
> 
> I have hunted both with and without bait. I find it much more difficult to evaluate the quality or legality of a buck without bait.
> 
> I am by no means saying that it cannot be done but it is usually easier with bait involved.


Seem like separate issues to me.

Bait is lure/feed both.
A.P.R. is a size limit on antlers.

Bait certainly can cause a buck to pause. Even without being close to it.
More than one has been killed waiting on a lady friend at a distance ,or scent checking from down wind.Then there are the bucks killed that did not have an aversion to being on bait...It happens. (No ,I'm not claiming bait is the only way to watch a buck. And certainly am not saying bucks don't relate to bait.)
That pause or delay can help look a rack over. Not assured , but I've watched it happen.

But neither the size limit ,or allowance ,(or not allowing) of bait depends on each other. More so in terms of regulation/legality.

Add hunter density and pressure , lounging bucks are more often going to be in cover. Or shifting gears heading for cover. Or going where a doe being dogged goes.
Counting points as they hustle? Maybe if they're exposed enough. Maybe not...


----------



## G20man

sureshot006 said:


> Right in front of a deer blind on a property with no livestock... cmon. Its no easier or harder to prove a case. But then again I'm not a lawyer with zero experience in the woods.


That I don't know or care. 
You asked why clover is planted. 
I gave two reasons not related to food plots. 

I've never seen it planted by a farmer to improve soil, it's usually rye in my area. 

But I do know CREP program has a timothy, alfalfa and clover mix that can be used. Or clover is used in a lot of hay fields. 

I really could care less if they ban bait or food plots or not.


----------



## Trophy Specialist

Hunters Edge said:


> I think it will drop as well. But feel the second or third year for full impact on loss of hunters. The first year will be those that basically have to use bait, disabled, old and those having medical issues. The first year some will not know of the ban but once found out will feel uncomfortable, or instead of injoying the time outdoors it will create undo stress or increased stress. Those experiencing this will not continue to bait and if not seeing deer will not buy licenses the second or the third year. Some will get caught and fined and some of those will stop hunting. If illegal deer harvest besides or use of bait the state usually prevents them from purchasing a license.
> 
> In the end it will stop or decrease revenue from license sales. It will decrease deer harvest because less hunters in the woods. It will decrease deer harvest for not utilizing bait to harvest deer. It will also increase the spread of CWD because those deer not harvested are spreading the disease.
> 
> Not to mention the impact on economic growth in the state.


You are probably right about the escalation of losses over time. And if the DNR gets real nasty on enforcement of baiting laws, then it will escalate losses even more. The DNR's license fee increase package of is up for renewal by March 2019. They have failed in about every aspect of the goals that were set forth with that package where the DNR was supposed to meet certain objectives in order for it to be renewed. This baiting ban is largely the DNR's fault and the consequences of fewer licenses being sold is owned by them. I don't see how they can ask for a renewal of that package, and likely an increase in hunting and fishing license fees with their abject failure over the past four years. I will be lobbying against it to hold them accountable for their actions.


----------



## sureshot006

G20man said:


> That I don't know or care.
> You asked why clover is planted.
> I gave two reasons not related to food plots.
> 
> I've never seen it planted by a farmer to improve soil, it's usually rye in my area.
> 
> But I do know CREP program has a timothy, alfalfa and clover mix that can be used. Or clover is used in a lot of hay fields.
> 
> I really could care less if they ban bait or food plots or not.


In case you missed it, my question was related to how crops for duck hunting and deer would be any different. Context matters.


----------



## Scout 2

sureshot006 said:


> In case you missed it, my question was related to how crops for duck hunting and deer would be any different. Context matters.


Deer is controlled by the state and ducks are controlled by the feds


----------



## swampbuck

sureshot006 said:


> In case you missed it, my question was related to how crops for duck hunting and deer would be any different. Context matters.


That is an interesting thought. If it can be prohibited for waterfowl, It can be done for deer. May need to dig deeper on that one.


----------



## sureshot006

Scout 2 said:


> Deer is controlled by the state and ducks are controlled by the feds


Irrelevant as far as attracting them with food.


----------



## Hunters Edge

swampbuck said:


> That is an interesting thought. If it can be prohibited for waterfowl, It can be done for deer. May need to dig deeper on that one.


It is not illegal to take/harvest waterfowl over or in crops. It has been illegal for using bait or to hunt over bait for waterfowl.

Only even that is not correct or was a few years ago in Canada on Indian reservation it was legal.

The big difference is where deer population is exploding or healthy or even pests. Many waterfowl species are declining or the same. This is because of several issues, lead poisoning, destruction of wetlands, increased predation are just a few. This is a distinct difference. At one time baiting was legal for waterfowl. Also live decoys and before licenses market hunting. Thus the reason for eliminating practices that could and has decreased population densities below a safe margin and a actually putting the species in jeopardy.

Which is ironic when you look at deer populations and with CWD it would seem the DNR would utilize a known method to improve harvest. Similar to the reason why they use bait and sharpshooters. It goes against every known wildlife management practice to ban baiting when trying to reduce the herds population.


----------



## sniper

G20man said:


> That could get expensive.
> I inquired that before and the deal was 200 an acre.
> I wanted 5 ended up getting 2


The farmer on our lease laughed at me when I asked to leave crops...The inconvience of them coming back for a few acres of crops and then having to change implements and so on and so forth just is not worth it for them..I get it..You need to know a small time farmer or hobbyist to make it happen..

Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## State land hunter

the


sniper said:


> The farmer on our lease laughed at me when I asked to leave crops...The inconvience of them coming back for a few acres of crops and then having to change implements and so on and so forth just is not worth it for them..I get it..You need to know a small time farmer or hobbyist to make it happen..
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


 the field i need to have left up is 3 small 3 acers each so 9 acers...but it could get expensive but so would doing it illegal and I dont like to teach my 3 sons to do things wrong


----------



## State land hunter

jr28schalm said:


> I would leave them 300 pounders standing at the bar alone


i just talked to one of the neighbors who shot one of those old 300lbs doe and he said the dnr aged it to be 8 years old


----------



## sureshot006

State land hunter said:


> i just talked to one of the neighbors who shot one of those old 300lbs doe and he said the dnr aged it to be 8 years old


Have you seen a true 300# deer?


----------



## State land hunter

sureshot006 said:


> Have you seen a true 300# deer?


i have only put one on a scale but since we are talking about it I will start next year and track what they weigh....i remeber the 1st buck i shot weighed 187lbs back in 1989....but since Then we shot 3 very large doe on the federal ref that out weighed most deer by far...their heads alone was huge...had to be 5 plus years old and had to be pretty dang close to 300lbs....corn fed deer can easy get to 300lbs...plus a little sugar beats ....


----------



## sureshot006

State land hunter said:


> i have only put one on a scale but since we are talking about it I will start next year and track what they weigh....i remeber the 1st buck i shot weighed 187lbs back in 1989....but since Then we shot 3 very large doe on the federal ref that out weighed most deer by far...their heads alone was huge...had to be 5 plus years old and had to be pretty dang close to 300lbs....corn fed deer can easy get to 300lbs...plus a little sugar beats ....


Well.... I wish I could post the pic of a 300 pounder, but it isnt mine and not "approved" for public posting. I think you'd change your estimate if you saw.

The one i saw was killed by my buddy. Was a buck with a 35" neck. No, that is not a typo...


----------



## State land hunter

sureshot006 said:


> Well.... I wish I could post the pic of a 300 pounder, but it isnt mine and not "approved" for public posting. I think you'd change your estimate if you saw.
> 
> The one i saw was killed by my buddy. Was a buck with a 35" neck. No, that is not a typo...


idk in the UP some of those bucks are pretty big..I shot a spike one year that was full of Fat...it too was close to 200lbs and he was young....I will order a scale fron cabelas so next year we can post our deer weight...


----------



## sureshot006

State land hunter said:


> idk in the UP some of those bucks are pretty big..I shot a spike one year that was full of Fat...it too was close to 200lbs and he was young....I will order a scale fron cabelas so next year we can post our deer weight...


I'm just telling you a true 300# deer will make your jaw drop.

Same guy i was talking about killed a good size buck the year prior that he had to literally cut in half to get in the truck himself.


----------



## State land hunter

sureshot006 said:


> I'm just telling you a true 300# deer will make your jaw drop.


i agree....the fed ref doe we killed that year was off the charts...it is hard to find a deer much over 200lbs and over 4 or 5 years old....we have alot of land where guys dont want the doe killed so they get pretty big...


----------



## sureshot006

State land hunter said:


> i agree....the fed ref doe we killed that year was off the charts...it is hard to find a deer much over 200lbs and over 4 or 5 years old....we have alot of land where guys dont want the doe killed so they get pretty big...


Even old doe dont generally get over 130#


----------



## G20man

I shot a monster of a doe years ago. 
Everyone was like that doe is close to 200#

So we all put $5 in a hat and gave our estimate. 

The highest was 187. 
The lowest was 140. 

I won......142 was the weight.


----------



## Liver and Onions

G20man said:


> I shot a monster of a doe years ago.
> Everyone was like that doe is close to 200#
> 
> So we all put $5 in a hat and gave our estimate.
> 
> The highest was 187.
> The lowest was 140.
> 
> I won......142 was the weight.


A doe dressing at 142 is huge. Most of us have never seen one that will dress at that weight, but that won't stop guys at guessing its dressed weight at 185#+. The person above talking about 300# does needs to buy a scale so that he can get an idea what deer weigh. 

L & O


----------



## sniper

State land hunter said:


> the
> 
> the field i need to have left up is 3 small 3 acers each so 9 acers...but it could get expensive but so would doing it illegal and I dont like to teach my 3 sons to do things wrong


I'm sorry I missed the part of something being illegal with crops..
Please explain...My interpreter is on stand by...

Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## sureshot006

Liver and Onions said:


> A doe dressing at 142 is huge. Most of us have never seen one that will dress at that weight, but that won't stop guys at guessing its dressed weight at 185#+. The person above talking about 300# does needs to buy a scale so that he can get an idea what deer weigh.
> 
> L & O


You're probably talking about the other guy but in case, the one I'm referring to was on a scale.


----------



## sureshot006

sniper said:


> I'm sorry I missed the part of something being illegal with crops..
> Please explain...My interpreter is on stand by...
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Ya. So long as you don't strip the corn from the cob and drop it on the ground, it is legal.


----------



## Waif

sniper said:


> I'm sorry I missed the part of something being illegal with crops..
> Please explain...My interpreter is on stand by...
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


You owe me a nickle for translating...

Having crop left standing could get expensive. But , so would doing it illegal. (Doing it illegal , meaning baiting instead...)


----------



## Dish7

State land hunter said:


> idk in the UP some of those bucks are pretty big..I shot a spike one year that was full of Fat...it too was close to 200lbs and he was young....I will order a scale fron cabelas so next year we can post our deer weight...


No offense, but a scale will be a bit of an eye opener.


----------



## Dish7

Liver and Onions said:


> A doe dressing at 142 is huge. Most of us have never seen one that will dress at that weight, but that won't stop guys at guessing its dressed weight at 185#+. The person above talking about 300# does needs to buy a scale so that he can get an idea what deer weigh.
> 
> L & O


Very true. I weigh all my bucks and any doe that "looks" big to me. My last doe this season looked very big to me. Big body and that "mule headed" look. Dressed out at 104lbs. That put her somewhere in the neighborhood of 131lbs on the hoof.


----------



## sniper

Waif said:


> You owe me a nickle for translating...
> 
> Having crop left standing could get expensive. But , so would doing it illegal. (Doing it illegal , meaning baiting instead...)


Lol..Thanks waif kinda ironic your explaining this..The mix up was we weren't talking about baiting we we're talking about farmers leaving crops for hunters...

Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Waif

sniper said:


> Lol..Thanks waif kinda ironic your explaining this..The mix up was we weren't talking about baiting we we're talking about farmers leaving crops for hunters...
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Ironic?
C'mon man , I was hoping IKEA would hire me to write up more confusing assembly instructions than they already have. (Guess you're not going to be a referral now...).


----------



## jamie2003rkc

poz said:


> Of course they are these guys are all talk. They don't care about the herd just their hunting


To be clear do you think CWD was not ever part of the deer herd? Colorado had CWD over 30 years ago they have yet to stop it. I am all for banning baiting but not because of CWD


----------



## swampbuck

jamie2003rkc said:


> To be clear do you think CWD was not ever part of the deer herd? Colorado had CWD over 30 years ago they have yet to stop it. I am all for banning baiting but not because of CWD


Colorado was where in started, in one of their research facilities. In a fenced pasture that held Scapie infected sheep.

I don't get why people think it can not be stopped, or that it can be stopped instantly. 

Sometimes solving these problems take time, sometimes it takes a long time.

That doesn't negate efforts to contain the disease until the solution is found, or until we know conclusively that there is no solution.

The deer herd can repopulate in the future if appropriate. But for all of those concerned about a short term affect on there recreation....well, I guess it was never about the health of the herd.

When bTB first became an issue in 1995, hunters responded (except the clubs that still have it) using basically the same plan put in place in the CWD zone. 25 years later it's still largely contained. 

What would the bTB situation in the SLP look like today if hunters had refused to cooperate in 1995.

Now those sportsmen in the north, see their fellow hunters in the south saying, 

"I am not going to destroy my hunting....not going to wipe out my deer"

What has changed, in that time we have had the Qdm movement, the APR movement, the health of the herd thing, resource conservation etc. Etc.....but now when faced with disease to the south, we hear "not my deer herd"

What happened to protecting the resource. Those guys wanting to fundamentaly change hunting, I guess they did.


----------



## sureshot006

swampbuck said:


> Colorado was where in started, in one of their research facilities. In a fenced pasture that held Scapie infected sheep.
> 
> I don't get why people think it can not be stopped, or that it can be stopped instantly.
> 
> Sometimes solving these problems take time, sometimes it takes a long time.
> 
> That doesn't negate efforts to contain the disease until the solution is found, or until we know conclusively that there is no solution.
> 
> The deer herd can repopulate in the future if appropriate. But for all of those concerned about a short term affect on there recreation....well, I guess it was never about the health of the herd.
> 
> When bTB first became an issue in 1995, hunters responded (except the clubs that still have it) using basically the same plan put in place in the CWD zone. 25 years later it's still largely contained.
> 
> What would the bTB situation in the SLP look like today if hunters had refused to cooperate in 1995.
> 
> Now those sportsmen in the north, see their fellow hunters in the south saying,
> 
> "I am not going to destroy my hunting....not going to wipe out my deer"
> 
> What has changed, in that time we have had the Qdm movement, the APR movement, the health of the herd thing, resource conservation etc. Etc.....but now when faced with disease to the south, we hear "not my deer herd"
> 
> What happened to protecting the resource. Those guys wanting to fundamentaly change hunting, I guess they did.


You realize the rate of infection is the same in the clubs you say haven't followed the rules, right?


----------



## swampbuck

sureshot006 said:


> You realize the rate of infection is the same in the clubs you say haven't followed the rules, right?


I must have missed that.







View attachment 361093


----------



## sureshot006

swampbuck said:


> I must have missed that.
> View attachment 361091
> View attachment 361093


The rate has not increased. It has gone down even in the clubs. Wasnt as high elsewhere to begin with.


----------



## Luv2hunteup

Could it be that we are gaining ground? We did have stressful winter conditions last spring which may have activated bTB. There was a concern after 30” of snow in April.


----------



## Liver and Onions

Does any know the approximate % of deer killed that are tested within TLC and outside of TLC ?
Without knowing this, how can you come to any educated conclusions ?

L & O


----------



## Luv2hunteup

Wildlife Services has been shooting down the herd in the MAZ. Since Christmas I talked to 2 farmers who had 40 and 70 deer taken around their cattle operations. I was asking for permission to hunt this month. One farmer felt bTB was not being spread around by deer. I was also told but not confirmed 1,200 deer have been taken by Wildlife Services in that area under biosecurity mandates. I may run down to the Gaylord USDA and ask plus fill out FOIA request paperwork when I’m bored of winter.


----------



## Luv2hunteup

Liver and Onions said:


> Does any know the approximate % of deer killed that are tested within TLC and outside of TLC ?
> Without knowing this, how can you come to any educated conclusions ?
> 
> L & O


PM Wayne Sitton, I’m sure he can give you the numbers from the club. Add up the 4 corner numbers for total number tested.


----------



## jamie2003rkc

swampbuck said:


> Colorado was where in started, in one of their research facilities. In a fenced pasture that held Scapie infected sheep.
> 
> I don't get why people think it can not be stopped, or that it can be stopped instantly.
> 
> Sometimes solving these problems take time, sometimes it takes a long time.
> 
> That doesn't negate efforts to contain the disease until the solution is found, or until we know conclusively that there is no solution.
> 
> The deer herd can repopulate in the future if appropriate. But for all of those concerned about a short term affect on there recreation....well, I guess it was never about the health of the herd.
> 
> When bTB first became an issue in 1995, hunters responded (except the clubs that still have it) using basically the same plan put in place in the CWD zone. 25 years later it's still largely contained.
> 
> What would the bTB situation in the SLP look like today if hunters had refused to cooperate in 1995.
> 
> Now those sportsmen in the north, see their fellow hunters in the south saying,
> 
> "I am not going to destroy my hunting....not going to wipe out my deer"
> 
> What has changed, in that time we have had the Qdm movement, the APR movement, the health of the herd thing, resource conservation etc. Etc.....but now when faced with disease to the south, we hear "not my deer herd"
> 
> What happened to protecting the resource. Those guys wanting to fundamentaly change hunting, I guess they did.


To be clear I am all for combating the disease any way possible also please note I don't bait I did way back in the beginning of my hunting but it's not something I have done in many years nor will I most likely ever again. Banning baiting will hopefully curtail the spread of the disease but it is clear that deer have nose to nose contact daily with other deer so just banning baiting won't solve the issue. In my opinion the DNR has other motives in the bait ban jmo though. The reason we are finding more deer with CWD is because we are actually testing for it once again my opinion it's mother nature doing her thing with added help from mankind. As for TB being contained after 25 years it certainly isn't because hunters in that area have followed the no bait ban. Do you really believe the DNR is listening to the sportsmen in this state or the big money interest. If Farm Bureau and State Farm had their way only deer in Michigan would be in zoo's and pens


----------



## jamie2003rkc

Gone Coastal said:


> View attachment 350601
> 
> I don’t care if people want to use bait, just follow the law. As for hunting up north without bait not being worth it. Myself and none of my relatives utilize bait and we’ve never lacked for venison. Baiting works for sure but is not a necessity to be successful up north here. No bait for this 11 pointer this year.


Beautiful Buck !!


----------



## Liver and Onions

Luv2hunteup said:


> PM Wayne Sitton, I’m sure he can give you the numbers from the club. Add up the 4 corner numbers for total number tested.


Good idea. Sent him a PM, but he hasn't visited the site since July so it may take a while before I get a reply. Maybe someone here has an idea about the %. I would not be to surprised if they ask their members to submit *all* deer killed at the club for testing.

L & O


----------



## swampbuck

sureshot006 said:


> The rate has not increased. It has gone down even in the clubs. Wasnt as high elsewhere to begin with.


My point was that the herd reduction and continued control in the surrounding counties has worked. It has kept it largely contained. Could it be better in club country (dmu452) and the AG area to the east, if they had cut deer numbers like in dmu487, most likely.

But it has been contained for the most part. 

Now we have the same prescription, herd reduction in the SLP to prevent the spread of CWD. And we hear the same responses that we heard from the areas that still have bTB.....not going to ruin my hunting,.... not my deer herd,.... too much invested.

What will the CWD map look like in 25 years, if hunters fail to cooperate.

You don't have bTB in the SLP, because hunters stepped up in 487. It could be a lot worse.


----------



## sureshot006

swampbuck said:


> My point was that the herd reduction and continued control in the surrounding counties has worked. It has kept it largely contained. Could it be better in club country (dmu452) and the AG area to the east, if they had cut deer numbers like in dmu487, most likely.
> 
> But it has been contained for the most part.
> 
> Now we have the same prescription, herd reduction in the SLP to prevent the spread of CWD. And we hear the same responses that we heard from the areas that still have bTB.....not going to ruin my hunting,.... not my deer herd,.... too much invested.
> 
> What will the CWD map look like in 25 years, if hunters fail to cooperate.
> 
> You don't have bTB in the SLP, because hunters stepped up in 487. It could be a lot worse.


You do realize that the club properties dont have populations anywhere near what they used to be, right? They did do what they were supposed to do in that aspect. Used to see literally 20+ deer at a time while hunting. Now might see a handful in a whole day.

I don't, and never have worried about TB. I do worry about CWD.


----------



## jamie2003rkc

stickbow shooter said:


> Nobody knows how Cwd got here or when it got here.[/QUOT


y


John Singer said:


> Why are hunter numbers going to decrease?
> 
> Are you threatening that people will quit deer hunting because it will be illegal to use bait?
> 
> Will you quit for that reason?


You can't be serious with your questioning have you ever hunted state land in let's say Gladwin County banning baiting will absolutely cause the number of hunters to dropjust like the years when opening day falls on a Tuesday there are many hunters who don't buy a license then they only prefer to hunt if they can do it on the weekend and not take a day off it's going to happen it's not a matter of if


----------



## 50incher

swampbuck said:


> What will the CWD map look like in 25 years, if hunters fail to cooperate.


Good question....are TB and CWD all that comparable ?....I am not paying very much attention to this whole mess, but it seems like CWD has done nothing but expand anywhere it has been found ?....albeit that in part it is getting more attention and much more testing, resulting in more cases being found ?....I don't think TB comes close....

I watched a good video of Colorado doing CWD research with a PHD student, from 2 years ago, netting deer from helicopters, very interesting, more work is being done than we probably have any idea of....and that's part of what worries me....still a* Huge ?* even from the experts !....

DNR's over react because they actually don't know what to do !?!?….I get that kinda sorta....but I still think there should be a much more solid knowledge base by now, with all the* YEARS* that this has been around, why still all the wet fingers in the wind ?....

Again, probably $$'s and effort....the average person probably doesn't even know about CWD just like they don't know they can turn right on a red light in MI.  !....I love peoples passion's for protecting our resources and wild place's !....

But laws are made by people & people can be very flawed in many ways....I wish the professionals had unlimited money for research, because I do believe many are very dedicated !....

This topic is like an open wound that is not gonna be healed till we have scientific proof....the sooner the better for sure....cheers all....


----------



## Gone Coastal

jamie2003rkc said:


> Beautiful Buck !!


Thank you, He was nocturnal till a hot doe lured him out to edge of thick cover.


----------



## swampbuck

50incher said:


> Good question....are TB and CWD all that comparable ?....I am not paying very much attention to this whole mess, but it seems like CWD has done nothing but expand anywhere it has been found ?....albeit that in part it is getting more attention and much more testing, resulting in more cases being found ?....I don't think TB comes close....
> 
> I watched a good video of Colorado doing CWD research with a PHD student, from 2 years ago, netting deer from helicopters, very interesting, more work is being done than we probably have any idea of....and that's part of what worries me....still a* Huge ?* even from the experts !....
> 
> DNR's over react because they actually don't know what to do !?!?….I get that kinda sorta....but I still think there should be a much more solid knowledge base by now, with all the* YEARS* that this has been around, why still all the wet fingers in the wind ?....
> 
> Again, probably $$'s and effort....the average person probably doesn't even know about CWD just like they don't know they can turn right on a red light in MI.  !....I love peoples passion's for protecting our resources and wild place's !....
> 
> But laws are made by people & people can be very flawed in many ways....I wish the professionals had unlimited money for research, because I do believe many are very dedicated !....
> 
> This topic is like an open wound that is not gonna be healed till we have scientific proof....the sooner the better for sure....cheers all....


Not the same, but the prescription is. TB only lasts a few days in the environment, CWD possibly forever. Transmission is basically the same. Hunters can get bTB, not CWD that we know of..........


----------



## 50incher

swampbuck said:


> CWD possibly forever. Transmission is basically the same.


Then when will we tell farmers to stop producing crops ?.......


----------



## G20man

Are they testing as many deer outside the club areas as in? 

Test more find more test less find less. 
Does that effect the out come?


----------



## John Singer

jamie2003rkc said:


> John did you even take a minute to read any of my post I haven't baited in about 25 years so the ban on baiting will only improve my chances as far as I am concerned.


Sorry. I did not bother to read your posts. I have been ignoring this thread until you quoted me. 

I valued my time and sanity a little bit.

Sorry again.


----------



## Trophy Specialist

Birddogm33 said:


> Talked to a DNR officer last night at the gas station about the new baiting rules. I said I heard they were going to fine abusers heavily. His response, it is a county to county thing as to how much they are going to charge. I thought that was a little odd, as it should be the same across the board. The one thing that really shook me up was it will be a misdemeanor in stead of a simple ticket. If that don't slow people down nothing will. We will see what happens when the fall season comes. A lot of issues will hopefully be ironed out before then.


Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a lame duck bill from a U.P. legislator that greatly reduced penalties for a lot of minor game law violations making them civil infractions instead of misdemeanors? I think I remember it including baiting along with hunter orange requirements, helmets on ATVs, names on shacks, and some other petty stuff. Not sure if it passed through Snyder.


----------



## sureshot006

Birddogm33 said:


> Talked to a DNR officer last night at the gas station about the new baiting rules. I said I heard they were going to fine abusers heavily. His response, it is a county to county thing as to how much they are going to charge. I thought that was a little odd, as it should be the same across the board. The one thing that really shook me up was it will be a misdemeanor in stead of a simple ticket. If that don't slow people down nothing will. We will see what happens when the fall season comes. A lot of issues will hopefully be ironed out before then.


I guess nothing will lol


----------



## Dish7

Birddogm33 said:


> The one thing that really shook me up was it will be a misdemeanor in stead of a simple ticket.


No need to get shook up...there is a simple solution...follow the law. JMO.


----------



## DirtySteve

Birddogm33 said:


> Talked to a DNR officer last night at the gas station about the new baiting rules. I said I heard they were going to fine abusers heavily. His response, it is a county to county thing as to how much they are going to charge. I thought that was a little odd, as it should be the same across the board. The one thing that really shook me up was it will be a misdemeanor in stead of a simple ticket. If that don't slow people down nothing will. We will see what happens when the fall season comes. A lot of issues will hopefully be ironed out before then.


Many laws have always been this way. Not all fines are spelled out. Baiting is 
a general violation of the conservation order which falls under to $50-500 fine. The local judge/prosecution can dictate how they see fit. I have heard 325-350 in most of the cases. My in law got a $350 fine when he was busted.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Gizzard

So can someone verify a statement i read back in this thread - A functional working feeder out in the woods is not illegal after the ban?....HUH?


----------



## sureshot006

Gizzard said:


> So can someone verify a statement i read back in this thread - A functional working feeder out in the woods is not illegal after the ban?....HUH?


A feeder in the woods is NOT illegal. It is illegal to feed/bait deer with it.


----------



## Gizzard

sureshot006 said:


> A feeder in the woods is NOT illegal. It is illegal to feed/bait deer with it.


ok I see what you did there, so whats the point ? people will still put them out and hope that it empties before a CO finds it ?


----------



## sureshot006

Gizzard said:


> ok I see what you did there, so whats the point ? people will still put them out and hope that it empties before a CO finds it ?


Theres not really a point... Just saying a functional feeder in the woods is not illegal. They can't pinch you for that. They would have to find the bits and pieces of corn left on the ground.

Practically, there is no reason but being lazy to not pull the feeders. But, not illegal to leave them so long as they aren't dropping feed.


----------



## Luv2hunteup

Maybe it’s time to list your feeders on Michigan Farm Bureau classifieds for farm use.


----------



## Slimits

DirtySteve said:


> Not sure how you argue with the premise that something might happen someday. Keep up the good fight lol.
> 
> I read before this last season that Wisconsin had 980 known Instances of people getting their deer tests back and they had already eaten some of the deer. There is no way of knowing the tens of thousands that have eaten it and never bothered testing. Especially in a state like Colorado where hunters and CO's both laugh about the idea of worrying over CWD consumption.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Wish michigan was like colorado


----------



## Luv2hunteup

Slimits said:


> Wish michigan was like colorado


Certainly not my wish. We only have CWD in a small portion of the state. Colorado’s deer and elk are disappearing at an alarm rate. It has ruined the hunting industry out there.


----------



## G20man

Luv2hunteup said:


> Certainly not my wish. We only have CWD in a small portion of the state. Colorado’s deer and elk are disappearing at an alarm rate. It has ruined the hunting industry out there.


Not that I don't believe you but you have a link to that statement?


----------



## hear fishie fishie

The TLC boundary map posted but Swamp buck appears to in error.







this is a corrected one.







see the green line.
Seems to eliminate some of the positives credited to TLC. 
The state used to publish yearly the location of all bTB positives by county dates harvested age sex and maybe section location.
They still collect this data at check stations when turning heads in for testing. Don't know why they quit publishing it each year. Didn't do a lot for their reporting credibility IMHO.
The information should be available from a FOI request.
One question in my mind is based upon the TLC management model ie keep the age and number of does reduced and only harvesting older bucks in a habitat improved abundant food situation why is bTB still present? 
They claim it's from migration into their propery but the map posted shows very few positives from the surrounding properties.
Is it in all the older bucks?? 
Not trying to derail the thread but some of the CWD control model is being followed but the disease persists .
Hear Fishie Fishie


----------



## sureshot006

G20man said:


> Not that I don't believe you but you have a link to that statement?


I'd like to see it, too. 

I have read that the decline is NOT due to CWD, but other environment/habitat issues.


----------



## sureshot006

This is discussing mulies. HABITAT loss is cited as the major contributor, NOT disease. CWD isn't even mentioned.

https://www.nwf.org/~/media/PDFs/Regional/Rocky-Mountain/LegacyintheCrosshairs_MuleDeer_NWF_CWF.pdf


----------



## sniper

sureshot006 said:


> This is discussing mulies. HABITAT loss is cited as the major contributor, NOT disease. CWD isn't even mentioned.
> 
> https://www.nwf.org/~/media/PDFs/Regional/Rocky-Mountain/LegacyintheCrosshairs_MuleDeer_NWF_CWF.pdf


I will add there is no shortage of hunters taking out of state hunting trips to Colorado..I know several that went just this fall...Wyoming also..

Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## swampbuck

hear fishie fishie said:


> The TLC boundary map posted but Swamp buck appears to in error.
> View attachment 361509
> this is a corrected one.
> View attachment 361507
> see the green line.
> Seems to eliminate some of the positives credited to TLC.
> The state used to publish yearly the location of all bTB positives by county dates harvested age sex and maybe section location.
> They still collect this data at check stations when turning heads in for testing. Don't know why they quit publishing it each year. Didn't do a lot for their reporting credibility IMHO.
> The information should be available from a FOI request.
> One question in my mind is based upon the TLC management model ie keep the age and number of does reduced and only harvesting older bucks in a habitat improved abundant food situation why is bTB still present?
> They claim it's from migration into their propery but the map posted shows very few positives from the surrounding properties.
> Is it in all the older bucks??
> Not trying to derail the thread but some of the CWD control model is being followed but the disease persists .
> Hear Fishie Fishie


Interesting thoughts. They quit publishing them because landowners don't want the public to know.


----------



## sureshot006

swampbuck said:


> Interesting thoughts. They quit publishing them because landowners don't want the public to know.


Where is that documented?


----------



## Dish7

sureshot006 said:


> Where is that documented?


Only in his own mind LOL.


----------



## sureshot006

Liver and Onions said:


> This bait ban is way different than the one in '08.
> 
> L & O


How so?


----------



## sniper

Liver and Onions said:


> Interesting.
> I can see salt blocks/minerals still being used at about the same level next year in all areas roughly 5 miles from a CWD positive. Which means most of the LP. Those in the thick of it likely will cut back or stop using salt/minerals.
> So probably Lucky Buck will still do ok. I have never heard of anyone getting a ticket for salt/minerals. Put it away from the property line and who is ever going to know ?
> The food items used for actual bait will not be seen as much and sales will be less. This bait ban is way different than the one in '08.
> 
> L & O


I can see state land baiting practices dropping big time...Private land, not so much..No where near enough enforcement to enforce it...

Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Luv2hunteup

sureshot006 said:


> How so?


This one starts on February 1st.


----------



## Trap Star

sniper said:


> I visited the Lucky Buck headquarters in Hillsdale a few weeks ago and asked one of the guys there if they were nervous about the upcoming bait ban..He laughed a little and said that the incoming orders haven't changed a bit..Who knows, that could change in the months ahead for the MI orders..
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


I didnt realize lucky buck was out of Hillsdale. Pretty cool guys?


----------



## sniper

Trap Star said:


> I didnt realize lucky buck was out of Hillsdale. Pretty cool guys?


Yep...The official name is Mar-Vo Mineral Co...I believe the company is 20 yrs old now..

Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## swampbuck

sureshot006 said:


> And you know this because? Have you hunted the clubs? Have you seen the population from late 90s through today?


Because the TLC necropsy and the late ag hunt haven't been done. And yes I get over that way once in a while.


----------



## sureshot006

swampbuck said:


> Because the TLC necropsy and the late ag hunt haven't been done. And yes I get over that way once in a while.


Well I hunt there and numbers are NOT EVEN CLOSE to what they were.


----------



## feedinggrounds

Liver and Onions said:


> Interesting.
> I can see salt blocks/minerals still being used at about the same level next year in all areas roughly 5 miles from a CWD positive. Which means most of the LP. Those in the thick of it likely will cut back or stop using salt/minerals.
> So probably Lucky Buck will still do ok. I have never heard of anyone getting a ticket for salt/minerals. Put it away from the property line and who is ever going to know ?
> The food items used for actual bait will not be seen as much and sales will be less. This bait ban is way different than the one in '08.
> 
> L & O


I agree, It is different. Hunting season is a long ways away and hunters are voicing opinions pretty loud. They have more venues to voice opinions than 08. 10 or so months of this for the NRC and DNR to read and listen to.


----------



## Liver and Onions

sureshot006 said:


> How so?


The LP '08 bait ban resulted from a dead doe in a small breeding pen in Kent County. She had been born in the pen, spent her 3 1/2 years in that, had 3 sets of fawns in that pen and drank/ate from the same watering & feeding troughs as the other 50 deer in that pen. Knowing this, it was hard to understand how *NONE* of the other deer from the pen had tested positive for CWD. Remember, this is a disease that doesn't show clinical signs for a long time and we had been told it passes easily from deer to deer. This deer had been sick a long time from something, but was it really CWD ?
The '08 bait ban was for the entire LP for a dead deer in a small pen where none of the other deer had CWD and hunters were to believe that deer outside the pen were somehow going to have CWD from this deer ? Not gonna happen.
The doe had tested positive for CWD in Lansing and it was confirmed in Iowa, however I don't think many hunters were buying the diagnosis.
All of this has nothing to do with the bait ban in the NELP for TB. 

L & O


----------



## sureshot006

Liver and Onions said:


> The LP '08 bait ban resulted from a dead doe in a small breeding pen in Kent County. She had been born in the pen, spent her 3 1/2 years in that, had 3 sets of fawns in that pen and drank/ate from the same watering & feeding troughs as the other 50 deer in that pen. Knowing this, it was hard to understand how *NONE* of the other deer from the pen had tested positive for CWD. Remember, this is a disease that doesn't show clinical signs for a long time and we had been told it passes easily from deer to deer. This deer had been sick a long time from something, but was it really CWD ?
> The '08 bait ban was for the entire LP for a dead deer in a small pen where none of the other deer had CWD and hunters were to believe that deer outside the pen were somehow going to have CWD from this deer ? Not gonna happen.
> The doe had tested positive for CWD in Lansing and it was confirmed in Iowa, however I don't think many hunters were buying the diagnosis.
> All of this has nothing to do with the bait ban in the NELP for TB.
> 
> L & O


I understand all that... but banned is banned. How is it really going to be different? Or were you just saying it is for different reasons?


----------



## swampbuck

sureshot006 said:


> Well I hunt there and numbers are NOT EVEN CLOSE to what they were.


I agree and that's a good thing


----------



## feedinggrounds

I bet some members here that talk down to those that bait with farm produce and fruits will absolutely continue using minerals. Not all, some I think are real straight up guys. But the lure of large antlers seems a strong thing. Look how much is spent in money and time for them.


----------



## swampbuck

I think quite a few of them dumped minerals Jan 1. The used to have reminder threads to do it on the last day of baiting.


----------



## mattawanhunter

https://goo.gl/images/6Utz5T



Trophy Specialist said:


> Let's see a photo of one of those 300 pounders. LOL


----------



## sureshot006

swampbuck said:


> I agree and that's a good thing


So the deer have been killed. Just not by paid folks.


----------



## Liver and Onions

sureshot006 said:


> I understand all that... but banned is banned. How is it really going to be different? Or were you just saying it is for different reasons?


I'm saying it's different this time because CWD is in our wild herd. A much higher percentage of hunters will follow the ban or greatly reduce the amounts. As has been mentioned, enforcement on public land seems doable to some degree. Private land, not so much when the bait is not placed near a property line. 
I can't see anyone risking walking in bait on public land at a SGA in the SLP when there is another car in the parking lot.
From numerous reports here, I know it still happens a lot in the NELP despite the TB bait ban. Maybe nothing will change there. 

L & O


----------



## feedinggrounds

sureshot006 said:


> I understand all that... but banned is banned. How is it really going to be different? Or were you just saying it is for different reasons?


Communication and access to info is much better for many more hunters. Hunters also learned a lot from the last bait ban. This ban is much different, the hunting product market is different. Baiting is deeply entrenched in Michigan deer hunting.


----------



## sureshot006

Liver and Onions said:


> I'm saying it's different this time because CWD is in our wild herd. A much higher percentage of hunters will follow the ban or greatly reduce the amounts. As has been mentioned, enforcement on public land seems doable to some degree. Private land, not so much when the bait is not placed near a property line.
> I can't see anyone risking walking in bait on public land at a SGA in the SLP when there is another car in the parking lot.
> From numerous reports here, I know it still happens a lot in the NELP despite the TB bait ban. Maybe nothing will change there.
> 
> L & O


Yeah that might be true to an extent. The extent that people believe in the measures being taken. If they dont believe in it, I'm not sure it will be any different at all


----------



## sureshot006

feedinggrounds said:


> Communication and access to info is much better for many more hunters. Hunters also learned a lot from the last bait ban. This ban is much different, the hunting product market is different. Baiting is deeply entrenched in Michigan deer hunting.


What did they learn last time?


----------



## Liver and Onions

swampbuck said:


> I think quite a few of them dumped minerals Jan 1. The used to have reminder threads to do it on the last day of baiting.


Yep, that was the last day it was legal until Sept. The point being, it was 100% legal. Jan 1st was also the last day to deer hunt legally in a number of years. Was it a bad thing to remind guys on Jan 1st that they still had a chance to fill an unused tag ?

L & O


----------



## feedinggrounds

sureshot006 said:


> What did they learn last time?


Not to believe everything. And the fact that the previous ban was reversed after what 3 seasons. Has some hunters wondering if our DNR is doing a knee jerk or appeasing.


----------



## sureshot006

feedinggrounds said:


> Not to believe everything. And the fact that the previous ban was reversed after what 3 seasons. Has some hunters wondering if our DNR is doing a knee jerk or appeasing.


Following other failed attempts


----------



## feedinggrounds

Liver and Onions said:


> Yep, that was the last day it was legal until Sept. The point being, it was 100% legal. Jan 1st was also the last day to deer hunt legally in a number of years. Was it a bad thing to remind guys on Jan 1st that they still had a chance to fill an unused tag ?
> 
> L & O


Dumping the minerals on Jan 1, yes 100% legal. But just as possible if not more likely to spread a disease, that many anti baiting, real hunters, on here claim is a valid reason to ban bait. Sure does not seem genuine concern for the deer or herd health. Why do hunters place minerals? To attract deer, or enhanced antler growth, or both?


----------



## michigandrake

sureshot006 said:


> What did they learn last time?


To use just a few beats instead of carrots and corn .... lol.


----------



## swampbuck

feedinggrounds said:


> Dumping the minerals on Jan 1, yes 100% legal. But just as possible if not more likely to spread a disease, that many anti baiting, real hunters, on here claim is a valid reason to ban bait. Sure does not seem genuine concern for the deer or herd health. Why do hunters place minerals? To attract deer, or enhanced antler growth, or both?


They gave up the health of the herd mantra months ago. It was never about anything but antlers. Notice how all the leaders disappeared when it became obvious.


----------



## feedinggrounds

swampbuck said:


> They gave up the health of the herd mantra months ago. It was never about anything but antlers. Notice how all the leaders disappeared when it became obvious.


I am not the only one who noticed...I knew others had.


----------



## Dish7

feedinggrounds said:


> Why do hunters place minerals? To attract deer, or enhanced antler growth, or both?


Only speaking for myself. I only use mineral to get trail cam pics. So not using it will be no big deal at all. Read an article by John Ozaga many years ago that stated there was no definitive evidence that minerals had any health effects, positive or negative. That was well before our CWD issues of course.


----------



## Waif

sureshot006 said:


> Well I hunt there and numbers are NOT EVEN CLOSE to what they were.


I won't ask if the numbers are more , or less of diseased deer , or just deer in general...Or hunters.


feedinggrounds said:


> Dumping the minerals on Jan 1, yes 100% legal. But just as possible if not more likely to spread a disease, that many anti baiting, real hunters, on here claim is a valid reason to ban bait. Sure does not seem genuine concern for the deer or herd health. Why do hunters place minerals? To attract deer, or enhanced antler growth, or both?


I've not put minerals out. Been tempted by the "rocks" seen on clearance though.

Trace minerals have an effect when missing. Just as they can when present.....
An old boy pushing a cultivator through his garden with a copper bolt added to drag in the soil is not crazy. Well , about adding the trace copper anyways.

If you've been around rabbit or cattle or goat ect. raising , a mineral block allows them access as desired. Despite what is in there food.

Believe it or not , deer will eat dirt deliberately on sites without supplemented minerals. (And on site's with mineral supplements too, hey ,deer are deer.). 

To the animal it can help a deficiency they don't even know they have.
I switch dog food brands now and then despite the hassle of finding an acceptable one (commercial blends don't really wow me as far as what canine diets should be) due to the difference in trace minerals.
Does it help? I don't know for a fact that it does or doesn't.
It reasons out that it is better than not having a variety of minerals.


----------



## G20man

Maybe the leaders just got tired of explaining themselves to those who aren't going to change their mind no matter what.


----------



## sniper

G20man said:


> Maybe the leaders just got tired of explaining themselves to those who aren't going to change their mind no matter what.


Agreed...I would also add that those "antler guys" that have been ignorantly pointed out here stop shooting the first set they see every time out the deer hunting might improve for everyone..

Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## DirtySteve

MossyHorns said:


> The Snowman Cam is still putting out a lot of bait! Wonder how long it will be before they get a ticket this time for baiting? I don't see how the DNR could let them continue to bait, but then bust a guy for disposing of Halloween pumpkins behind his barn.
> http://www.snowmancam.com/


Completely legal until end of the month.

From the DNR website.....













Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## swampbuck

sniper said:


> Agreed...I would also add that those "antler guys" that have been ignorantly pointed out here stop shooting the first set they see every time out the deer hunting might improve for everyone..
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


But who gets to decide what is improvement is, and at what cost. Your desires and goals, may not be someone else's.


----------



## Luv2hunteup

swampbuck said:


> Because the TLC necropsy and the late ag hunt haven't been done. And yes I get over that way once in a while.


Maybe you should get over that way and get your facts straight but then again that is not your style. Where will there be a necropsy in 2019 and what is the late AG Hunt?

There are 4 more days for the Special Season which is only held in Alpena County south of 32. Very low participation in 2019. I took the first deer to Alpena check station during the Special Deer Season and it was not even killed in 2019. Watch Michigan Outdoor News if you want real info, Jenny O was checking in her deer on Sunday midday along with my hunting partner. In 2019 please try to not make up lies.


----------



## MossyHorns

DirtySteve said:


> Completely legal until end of the month.
> 
> From the DNR website.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 362199
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


True, but during the last bait ban they refused to stop and took the state to court.


----------



## G20man

sniper said:


> Agreed...I would also add that those "antler guys" that have been ignorantly pointed out here stop shooting the first set they see every time out the deer hunting might improve for everyone..
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


I don't know what leaders he is specifically speaking of but the ones I can think of have been actively working with area hunters to check their deer. Working towards continued population control in their area by taking does and inviting guests to kill does. 

None of them killed a buck this year. 

I don't know if their actions constitutes doing something for the health of the herd or only if they broadcast their every move on the internet is it so.


----------



## DirtySteve

MossyHorns said:


> True, but during the last bait ban they refused to stop and took the state to court.


Everyone is entitled to their day in court. It is what sets us apart from the rest of the world. What was the outcome of their case?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## sniper

swampbuck said:


> But who gets to decide what is improvement is, and at what cost. Your desires and goals, may not be someone else's.


Spare us the same old rebel yell!...This coming from a guy that wished cwd to the whole lower slp so aprs could be a distant memory..What a joke!..Dont make me pull up that post..

We've been under rules and regulations in every facet of life since the day we we're born..Get over it..Do we sometimes disagree we these rules? Yes...But guess what, water always finds the hole in the bottom of the bucket and this will be no different..

Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Liver and Onions

MossyHorns said:


> True, but during the last bait ban they refused to stop and took the state to court.


Who is "they" ? Just curious.

L & O


----------



## G20man

MossyHorns said:


> took the state to court.


They did? 
I thought the NRC decided to lift the ban despite the DNR biologist recommendations


----------



## MossyHorns

DirtySteve said:


> Everyone is entitled to their day in court. It is what sets us apart from the rest of the world. What was the outcome of their case?
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


The fine was thrown out in court.



Liver and Onions said:


> Who is "they" ? Just curious.
> 
> L & O


The owners of the Snowman Cam.



G20man said:


> They did?
> I thought the NRC decided to lift the ban despite the DNR biologist recommendations


Here's a link to an old MS thread.
https://www.michigan-sportsman.com/...-charge-by-the-dnr-for-his-birdfeeder.328189/


----------



## mbrewer

G20man said:


> I go into every season with a "hit list" but also a standard.
> To make the list you fit the standards.
> The rank on the list will be determined by antler size and age.
> Whether I target a specific buck or not is determined by if I actually have information that leads me to believe I can actually kill him.
> If not I will take first opportunity to any buck on the list or that meets my standard as you stated much like most of us will.
> 
> Shooting does depends on population, property rules, freezer compacity, or timing of hunt( I don't shoot doe if I have to be at work in the morning )


My thoughts and actions are very similar.

Let me add this; I appreciate your willingness to discuss the topic, the message over the messenger. I wish more people would accept the challenge, minimal as it is.


----------



## mattawanhunter

59 pages, have you boys solved anything yet?


----------



## Gizzard

mattawanhunter said:


> 59 pages, have you boys solved anything yet?


Geicko can save you up to 15% or more on car insurance


----------



## Rainman68

Gizzard said:


> So Driving North Oak county last night - still bait at stores and some gas stations....not a ton but its still there, and yes I know the ban isn't in effect until the 31st, it did look like there was no re stocking going on


Archery goes to Jan 31st in Oakland Co not baiting, that ended 12/31/18.


----------



## sniper

mbrewer said:


> My thoughts and actions are very similar.
> 
> Let me add this; I appreciate your willingness to discuss the topic, the message over the messenger. I wish more people would accept the challenge, minimal as it is.


Dude your posts are like trying to read a cryptic message from the Mayan days...If you don't believe me trying rereading one...

Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## sniper

G20man said:


> I go into every season with a "hit list" but also a standard.
> To make the list you fit the standards.
> The rank on the list will be determined by antler size and age.
> Whether I target a specific buck or not is determined by if I actually have information that leads me to believe I can actually kill him.
> If not I will take first opportunity to any buck on the list or that meets my standard as you stated much like most of us will.
> 
> Shooting does depends on population, property rules, freezer compacity, or timing of hunt( I don't shoot doe if I have to be at work in the morning )


Very nicely put G20...In English to..We appreciate it..

Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Gizzard

Rainman68 said:


> Archery goes to Jan 31st in Oakland Co not baiting, that ended 12/31/18.


my bad


----------



## sniper

mattawanhunter said:


> 59 pages, have you boys solved anything yet?


M you are absolutely correct, nothing solved..Ive never baited to hunt deer (my cameras have) and I don't care if anyone else does..I also don't believe it'll slow disease either. The wisdom from some here is breathtaking though..

Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Hunters Edge

DirtySteve said:


> Completely legal until end of the month.
> 
> From the DNR website.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 362199
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app





Rainman68 said:


> Archery goes to Jan 31st in Oakland Co not baiting, that ended 12/31/18.





Gizzard said:


> my bad


I think or advise Rainman68 and Gizzard to read Dirty Steve post 851 or read the hunting guide.


----------



## MILONEWOLF

I have hunted with bait before but it has been many decades since that time. I have made the successful effort without it, taken more deer. Lots of questions to ask: Are the deer contracting CWD and Bovine TB when they are at these piles? Also in the face of hunter numbers declining do we stop a practice like this that may drive hunters out? And the flip side with our numbers getting, our public image and the scene of a hunter sitting over a pile of feed, not exactly public relations success. Then what about bear hunters, hunting over bait, not exactly the same animal but someone will whine that they can bait and we can't, infighting. 
Sorry did not mean to go on a rant but I am there other questions that others can think of on this issue that are equally important and need to discussed.


----------



## sureshot006

MILONEWOLF said:


> I have hunted with bait before but it has been many decades since that time. I have made the successful effort without it, taken more deer. Lots of questions to ask: Are the deer contracting CWD and Bovine TB when they are at these piles? Also in the face of hunter numbers declining do we stop a practice like this that may drive hunters out? And the flip side with our numbers getting, our public image and the scene of a hunter sitting over a pile of feed, not exactly public relations success. Then what about bear hunters, hunting over bait, not exactly the same animal but someone will whine that they can bait and we can't, infighting.
> Sorry did not mean to go on a rant but I am there other questions that others can think of on this issue that are equally important and need to discussed.


Yep.

On bear... I think the antis, and private land owners, take the brunt of it. Bait bear hunters are a secondary concern.


----------



## mbrewer

sniper said:


> Very nicely put G20...In English to..We appreciate it..
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


You've complimented him twice for his response to my question as did I. Two things strike me about that. 1. He understood the question without explanation and 2. So did you.


----------



## Gizzard

Hunters Edge said:


> I think or advise Rainman68 and Gizzard to read Dirty Steve post 851 or read the hunting guide.


I have a hard time reading - grew up in Almont


----------



## G20man

mbrewer said:


> You've complimented him twice for his response to my question as did I. Two things strike me about that. 1. He understood the question without explanation and 2. So did you.


I'll admit sometimes your posts are difficult. 
But then again I'm not the sharpest nail.


----------



## Hunters Edge

MILONEWOLF said:


> Are the deer contracting CWD and Bovine TB when they are at these piles?


Obviously not because it is legal to bait in the UP. Also in CWD zones in the UP.



MILONEWOLF said:


> Also in the face of hunter numbers declining do we stop a practice like this that may drive hunters out?


I would say no but they did so we will loose hunters. Also making legal hunters into poachers as well. I often wonder if anti-hunters are making decisions in our DNR?



MILONEWOLF said:


> Then what about bear hunters, hunting over bait, not exactly the same animal but someone will whine that they can bait and we can't, infighting.


It already infighting because it is banned in LP and is allowed along with feeding in the UP



MILONEWOLF said:


> I have hunted with bait before but it has been many decades since that time. I have made the successful effort without it, taken more deer.


That's an issue even if legal it is a choice. By banning it, that choice is taken away but those in the UP still have that freedom of choice.



MILONEWOLF said:


> Lots of questions to ask:


This is in response to your post and IMO


----------



## mbrewer

G20man said:


> I'll admit sometimes your posts are difficult.


I understand that too.

I think, in areas of disagreement, people would rather be shown than told, I know I do. That's why I ask most of the the questions I do. The answers whatever they are aren't for me they're for You. You is anyone willing to consider the question.

Telling is much easier than showing but it's boring and it doesn't accomplish much.


----------



## Luv2hunteup

MILONEWOLF said:


> I have hunted with bait before but it has been many decades since that time. I have made the successful effort without it, taken more deer. Lots of questions to ask: Are the deer contracting CWD and Bovine TB when they are at these piles? Also in the face of hunter numbers declining do we stop a practice like this that may drive hunters out? And the flip side with our numbers getting, our public image and the scene of a hunter sitting over a pile of feed, not exactly public relations success. Then what about bear hunters, hunting over bait, not exactly the same animal but someone will whine that they can bait and we can't, infighting.
> Sorry did not mean to go on a rant but I am there other questions that others can think of on this issue that are equally important and need to discussed.


Bear hunters can hunt with hounds but deer hunters can’t. I’ve yet to see a thread on it. No infighting except for trespassing.


----------



## Dish7

Hunters Edge said:


> Also making legal hunters into poachers as well.


I really could care less about baiting but when this response pops up, as it all too frequently does, it really exposes the poster. Legal hunters are not made into poachers by a reg change. Silly. JMO.


----------



## Hunters Edge

Dish7 said:


> I really could care less about baiting but when this response pops up, as it all too frequently does, it really exposes the poster. Legal hunters are not made into poachers by a reg change. Silly. JMO.


I appreciate your opinion. Only difference in my opinion vs yours 1 I did not insult any poster. 2 I forged my opinion on data from another state. In others words if you do the same thing you can not expect different results.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.greenbaypressgazette.com/amp/804987001


----------



## Dish7

Hunters Edge said:


> I appreciate your opinion. Only difference in my opinion vs yours 1 I did not insult any poster. 2 I forged my opinion on data from another state. In others words if you do the same thing you can not expect different results.
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.greenbaypressgazette.com/amp/804987001


I didn't insult anybody and I don't need data from anywhere to follow the law...even if I don't like it.


----------



## Waif

sniper said:


> Waif I would owe you more than a dime if you can navigate through that mind swamp..Your good but you ain't that good..
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


I'll still hold my chin up for trying.


----------



## unclecbass

it won't change because violators have no real fear of punishment. Let's be realistic


----------



## mbrewer

sniper said:


> Do us all a favor and refer to post #869 and forget about teaching..Its not your strong suit...
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Is there no end to the things you want me to do for you?


----------



## sniper

mbrewer said:


> Is there no end to the things you want me to do for you?


Silent up would nice...lol.
And that would for all us not just me..
  

Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Liver and Onions

ridgewalker said:


> Will it stop? No, in our area those
> .................................
> As some have written prior to this post, this reg will do nothing but drive hunters out of deer hunting. It will do nothing at all about CWD.


Interesting, in a bad way. I know deer hunting causes some hunters to do things that they might never do in their everyday life, but the events you just described are over the top.

L & O


----------



## LabtechLewis

sniper said:


> Silent up would nice...lol.
> And that would for all us not just me..
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


C'mon sniper! Our community here is feeling the loss of Pinefarm more than ever at this point in the season, evidenced by the most interesting thread is currently this one. 

We can't afford to lose content from either you or Milwaukee. We need _you_ for your big buck photography prowess and _him_ for his ability to kill them. 

(joking, joking...let's make today a great end to the work week, eh?)


----------



## Gizzard

LabtechLewis said:


> C'mon sniper! Our community here is feeling the loss of Pinefarm more than ever at this point in the season, evidenced by the most interesting thread is currently this one.
> 
> We can't afford to lose content from either you or Milwaukee. We need _you_ for your big buck photography prowess and _him_ for his ability to kill them.
> 
> (joking, joking...let's make today a great end to the work week, eh?)


Peace and Love, Peace and love


----------



## skipper34

In case anybody hasn't noticed, about every other day there is another "no" vote in the original poll. Sad to think that already there are 115 hunters who will break the law just to hunt deer over bait.


----------



## LabtechLewis

skipper34 said:


> In case anybody hasn't noticed, about every other day there is another "no" vote in the original poll. Sad to think that already there are 115 hunters who will break the law just to hunt deer over bait.


It's not just _hunting_ over bait, it includes supplementing nutrition and positioning for pictures, too.


----------



## stickbow shooter

Ever think guy's are just messing around with these stupid polls  . It's winter, people are bored and probably tired of reading about bait vs food plots, CWD and Aprs.


----------



## sureshot006

skipper34 said:


> In case anybody hasn't noticed, about every other day there is another "no" vote in the original poll. Sad to think that already there are 115 hunters who will break the law just to hunt deer over bait.


Might be different if the question said 1/31/19?


----------



## Gizzard

yes we are bored - no real ice - cabin fever !!!


----------



## Trophy Specialist

skipper34 said:


> In case anybody hasn't noticed, about every other day there is another "no" vote in the original poll. Sad to think that already there are 115 hunters who will break the law just to hunt deer over bait.


If that makes you sad then consider that the majority of hunters were baiting deer in Michigan and in certain parts of the state, its the vast majority. Most of those people will continue to bait, some more, some less, but still baiting. That's hundred of thousands of of people that will be breaking the law. But before getting your panties in too much of a bunch, consider that the vast majority of drivers in Michigan purposely speed down the road breaking those safety laws with regularity all the while endangering other's lives. That's millions of law breakers and I bet a lot of those people that are so upset with the fact that people will continue to bait are among those dastardly speeders flaunting their disrespect for the law, yet fainting righteous indignation about some minor baiting violations that are basically a victimless crime. I'm lucky enough to have a well set up property with a dozen food plots and access to other lands that are also top notch, so a baiting/feed ban will not negatively impact my success, so I guess I should be all for it like a lot of others on here. But I just can't join the selfish crowd and support an act that will cost tens of thousands of hunters and will result in the loss of far more deer through winter kill than CWD will ever kill and will ultimately have a negligible, if any impact on the spread of CWD. The selfish crowd though that's behind the ban lead by Farm Bureau and their cronies with a bunch of self serving hunters joining in is what makes me sad.


----------



## Gizzard

Trophy Specialist said:


> If that makes you sad then consider that the majority of hunters were baiting deer in Michigan and in certain parts of the state, its the vast majority. Most of those people will continue to bait, some more, some less, but still baiting. That's hundred of thousands of of people that will be breaking the law. But before getting your panties in too much of a bunch, consider that the vast majority of drivers in Michigan purposely speed down the road breaking those safety laws with regularity all the while endangering other's lives. That's millions of law breakers and I bet a lot of those people that are so upset with the fact that people will continue to bait are among those dastardly speeders flaunting their disrespect for the law, yet fainting righteous indignation about some minor baiting violations that are basically a victimless crime. I'm lucky enough to have a well set up property with a dozen food plots and access to other lands that are also top notch, so a baiting/feed ban will not negatively impact my success, so I guess I should be all for it like a lot of others on here. But I just can't join the selfish crowd and support an act that will cost tens of thousands of hunters and will result in the loss of far more deer through winter kill than CWD will ever kill and will ultimately have a negligible, if any impact on the spread of CWD. The selfish crowd though that's behind the ban lead by Farm Bureau and their cronies with a bunch of self serving hunters joining in is what makes me sad.


this is a serious question: Why would the farm bureau be behind wanting to ban the baiting; wouldn't it be their constituents that are harmfully affected by no more sales of corn,beets, and carrots for feed?


----------



## HUBBHUNTER

Gizzard said:


> this is a serious question: Why would the farm bureau be behind wanting to ban the baiting; wouldn't it be their constituents that are harmfully affected by no more sales of corn,beets, and carrots for feed?


Yeah and less deer being killed without the use of bait = more deer = more crop damage = higher prevalence rate = total nonsense and was only implemented to say the dnr did something.


----------



## mattawanhunter

*THIS ,MAY SLOW BAITERS DOWN WHEN SOME IS WATCHING AND REPORTING!*

*Hunter blames wife for illegal deer he shot*

A Michigan hunter caught shooting an illegal deer at first denied doing so, but then confessed and put the blame on his wife for his actions.

“The honest-to-God truth is that my wife wants deer meat and if I come home without any she’ll get really mad at me,” the hunter told Conservation Officer Josiah Killingbeck, according to the Cadillac (Michigan) News.

*A tip that a hunter was over-baiting in Lake County *in Lake Township near Baldwin started the investigation, the Cadillac News related. Then the tipster called in to say he witnessed the hunter shoot a spike horn buck, doing so in a county with antler point restrictions.

In some regions of Michigan, bucks must have three or four points on one side. Bucks without branching antlers are called spikehorn, spiked bucks or spike horn bucks. The buck in question was illegal.

The hunter denied shooting any deer, but Killingbeck persisted, pointing out the drag marks leading away from the bait pile. When Killingbeck told the hunter a witness saw him do it, he finally confessed to shooting the spike horn knowing it was illegal and not tagging it.

Then he laid blame on his wife. The deer, found hidden behind a house, was seized by the Department of Natural Resources and “enforcement action was taken.”


----------



## mattawanhunter

FYI, If you cant beat them, don't join them, Irritate the Piss out of them!

I remember running into my 1st dump truck load of bait in the UP, I was still hunting a new spot on State Land in Dickinson County in the 80's, eyed the pile through the trees had no Idea I was coming up on a 2 track,it was quite startling to see, then to think if someone was shooting at anything that was moving!


----------



## sureshot006

Boy not very many deer up there lol


----------



## John Singer

Trophy Specialist said:


> If that makes you sad then consider that the majority of hunters were baiting deer in Michigan and in certain parts of the state, its the vast majority. Most of those people will continue to bait, some more, some less, but still baiting. That's hundred of thousands of of people that will be breaking the law. But before getting your panties in too much of a bunch, consider that the vast majority of drivers in Michigan purposely speed down the road breaking those safety laws with regularity all the while endangering other's lives. That's millions of law breakers and I bet a lot of those people that are so upset with the fact that people will continue to bait are among those dastardly speeders flaunting their disrespect for the law, yet fainting righteous indignation about some minor baiting violations that are basically a victimless crime. I'm lucky enough to have a well set up property with a dozen food plots and access to other lands that are also top notch, so a baiting/feed ban will not negatively impact my success, so I guess I should be all for it like a lot of others on here. But I just can't join the selfish crowd and support an act that will cost tens of thousands of hunters and will result in the loss of far more deer through winter kill than CWD will ever kill and will ultimately have a negligible, if any impact on the spread of CWD. The selfish crowd though that's behind the ban lead by Farm Bureau and their cronies with a bunch of self serving hunters joining in is what makes me sad.


Does it make you sad when people drive at the posted speed limit?


----------



## sureshot006

I took TS's comments to mean a person can have done nothing illegal in their life to be critical of someone else that has done something illegal. At least for crimes on a similar level. Pretty sure you couldnt put baiting on the same plane as a bank robbery.

Curious to know how may DUI's or DUIs that were never caught are righteous lol


----------



## Luv2hunteup

It appears that Michigan hunters are a little less lawless than the average American. ~30% of Americans have a criminal record.

https://www.politifact.com/new-york...yes-one-three-us-adults-have-criminal-record/


----------



## swampbuck

Luv2hunteup said:


> It appears that Michigan hunters are a little less lawless than the average American. ~30% of Americans have a criminal record.
> 
> https://www.politifact.com/new-york...yes-one-three-us-adults-have-criminal-record/


That's a pretty shocking and sad statistic.


----------



## Slimits

Has any thread made it to 100 pages? This one has a chance!


----------



## Luv2hunteup

There are as many Americans with a criminal record as there are with a 4 year college degree.

https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/just-facts-many-americans-have-criminal-records-college-diplomas


swampbuck said:


> That's a pretty shocking and sad statistic.


It almost make you wonder if the proposed wall is to keep Americans in.


----------



## Trophy Specialist

Luv2hunteup said:


> There are as many Americans with a criminal record as there are with a 4 year college degree.
> 
> https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/just-facts-many-americans-have-criminal-records-college-diplomas
> 
> 
> It almost make you wonder if the proposed wall is to keep Americans in.


Maybe Trump should use that argument to get Mexico to pay more for the wall?


----------



## G20man

sureshot006 said:


> I dont see the correction I was looking for. He said illegal baiting will get legal hunters in trouble because someone else puts bait out by the legal guy's stand. Might have to look back a bit to see it.


The whole story sounds a bit exaggerated to me. 

I'll stick with my corrections.


----------



## Waif

swampbuck said:


> That's a pretty shocking and sad statistic.


Really. Bunch of old farts with vinyl records still.
Get with the times folks , it's C.D.'s now!


----------



## LabtechLewis

Waif said:


> Really. Bunch of old farts with vinyl records still.
> Get with the times folks , it's C.D.'s now!


It is? Guess again, old man...


----------



## Gizzard

wont make 100, i feel a mod coming on pretty soon and shuttin er down


----------



## Waif

LabtechLewis said:


> It is? Guess again, old man...


Hey , I'm still mad about getting burned on 8-tracks being replaced with cassettes!


----------



## Dish7

G20man said:


> The whole story sounds a bit exaggerated to me.
> 
> I'll stick with my corrections.


Maybe I'm a little cynical, but that story sounds like a ready made weak excuse. "That's not my pile of carrots next to my stand." LOL.


----------



## sureshot006

G20man said:


> The whole story sounds a bit exaggerated to me.
> 
> I'll stick with my corrections.


That may be, but it is still entirely possible. Some people are really shatty


----------



## Hunters Edge

swampbuck said:


> That's a pretty shocking and sad statistic.


I agree. What is more shocking that that keep in mind that does not count or consider how many do not have criminal records that should have, because they were never apprehended or unsolved crimes committed.

It's like those cars speeding by you. How many do you think actually get a ticket, compared to those committing the infraction but not getting caught?


----------



## Hunters Edge

G20man said:


> No different than any other law.
> And quite frankly we don't need hunters who ignore regulations within our ranks.


What about hunters treaspassing? Even though it is illegal, does it still exists or happen?



G20man said:


> The whole story sounds a bit exaggerated to me.
> 
> I'll stick with my corrections.


Really because it did not happen to you? Sorry but I believe it did and does happen more than you realize.

Growing up in club country the family had over a section of ground. It had 1/4 mile on the east side but over a mile on the west side was state land. Every year it was walked with putting up signs and making sure wire was in place or fenced around perimeter of parcel. Yet many times we spent more time throwing treaspassers off than hunting. Yet treaspassing is illegal.

The parcel on the north side was just under 2 sections and their West property line also was adjacant to state land. One year 2 members from that club came over to get us to confront treaspassers that actually came up and took the man's gun and kicked him out if his blind which was on private property. We expressed it was not right to take the law into your own hands or gather a vigilante committee and the matter should be turned over to authorities.

So yes from my experiences I totally believe without a doubt ridgewalker's post. I also believe that even being illegal baiting will continue like or similar to what he described in his post.



ridgewalker said:


> Will it stop? No, in our area those that continued baiting last time threw out more.
> 
> It will also be used against legal hunters by other slob hunters. Examples: My land borders state land. One neighboring disabled (in a wheelchair) hunter put a blind on state land according to the rules during archery season. When he came out to hunt, he was threatened and told to leave by some bums. He called the DNR from the road but they did not show. The bums destroyed the blind after they quit hunting. They had also dumped over the limit amount of bait and were going to blame it on the handicapped guy if they were seen in the area. Drunks in bars are often not very quiet about the things that they do. They can be in their camp on state land and as long as they have their permit and they say nothing they get away with the crap they do.
> 
> I hunt between 150-200 yards from the line in a handicap accessible equipped blind. We have a pail in camp marked for 2 gallons. With bait like beets we chopped them up to stay within the two gallons. The state land bums have bleached my bait, added bait so that a hunt was spoiled while I called for help to remove it, and have walked in 15 minutes before closing time and sat just across the line watching my bait and plot just to ruin my hunt. Yes that was legal but shining a handheld spotlight in my eyes was not. The DNR gets called and no one comes out. The state land guys called once as we were cleaning up the extra they dumped and the DNR shows up. Even though my help is cleaning it up, we would have received a ticket if the bums had not left tracks in the sand. Of course they had already vacated the area.
> 
> This ridiculous law will get some hunters that are trying to follow the law a ticket. The bums that dump all kinds of bait and sit more than 200 yards back down a runway will get away with it. There are many ways to get that bait into public land without getting caught and some private clubs are virtually unstoppable. The dumb and the careless will get caught with it in hand but that will not prevent all of the other problems. The majority in our camp this past year have decided not to hunt this coming year. The rest of us have not made a decision yet, except that there will be no combos purchased this year.
> 
> As some have written prior to this post, this reg will do nothing but drive hunters out of deer hunting. It will do nothing at all about CWD.


----------



## jimlin13

maybe all hunters will get on board with no baiting deer,when the dnr and nrc come out with solid facts about how baiting is causing cwd.maybe they have and I haven,t seen it.i think most of us care about the deer herd.if baiting is the problem,shouldn,t the dnr,and nrc stick to the same rule for the whole state.


----------



## Waif

Add more laws , more laws will be violated. How else can it be?


----------



## 50incher

sniper said:


> Ive never baited to hunt deer





ridgewalker said:


> As some have written prior to this post, this reg will do nothing but drive hunters out of deer hunting. It will do nothing at all about CWD.





mattawanhunter said:


> eyed the pile through the trees





stickbow shooter said:


> Carrots are the worst thing to use as bait in the Yoop. My cousins use corn apples and cabbage.


1....Well that means next to nothing without full discloser, lol....

2....RW, I hope your wrong, and agree about the CWD part, and also think it will not do anything to help hunter #'s !....

3....carrot piles were so high on hunt clubs in Lewiston, 1st time I thought "it's a hunter in orange, then it became a mountain !"....lol....

4....apples all the way....can honestly say I think I've seen deer that almost scared me in the UP, lol....just friggen BRUTES !....we took a 7 year old doe once, I'm thinking, dang!, she lived that long !?....

Trying to play catch up, lol....still enjoying the conversation....does anyone think that any government agency still actually acts in the "common peoples interest" ?.... ....trying to go politico and keep this from hitting 1000, lol....love the debate....cheers....


----------



## G20man

Hunters Edge said:


> What about hunters treaspassing? Even though it is illegal, does it still exists or happen?
> 
> 
> 
> Really because it did not happen to you? Sorry but I believe it did and does happen more than you realize.
> 
> Growing up in club country the family had over a section of ground. It had 1/4 mile on the east side but over a mile on the west side was state land. Every year it was walked with putting up signs and making sure wire was in place or fenced around perimeter of parcel. Yet many times we spent more time throwing treaspassers off than hunting. Yet treaspassing is illegal.
> 
> The parcel on the north side was just under 2 sections and their West property line also was adjacant to state land. One year 2 members from that club came over to get us to confront treaspassers that actually came up and took the man's gun and kicked him out if his blind which was on private property. We expressed it was not right to take the law into your own hands or gather a vigilante committee and the matter should be turned over to authorities.
> 
> So yes from my experiences I totally believe without a doubt ridgewalker's post. I also believe that even being illegal baiting will continue like or similar to what he described in his post.


Yes trespassing is illegal and it still happens and the trespasser is responsible for their actions whether it was a mistake or not. 
Again, break the law there are consequences. 
When will you understand that? 

I didn't say his story didn't happen I said it sounds a bit exaggerated.


----------



## G20man

jimlin13 said:


> maybe all hunters will get on board with no baiting deer,when the dnr and nrc come out with solid facts about how baiting is causing cwd.maybe they have and I haven,t seen it.i think most of us care about the deer herd.if baiting is the problem,shouldn,t the dnr,and nrc stick to the same rule for the whole state.


The dnr or nrc never said baiting caused cwd. 
They have stated it can possibly help spread cwd. 
Maybe if hunters understood the reason for the ban they would get on board with it.


----------



## G20man

Waif said:


> Add more laws , more laws will be violated. How else can it be?


True.
Easily to avoid. They publish the rules/laws every year.
You can even get the rule book for free or look it up online.


----------



## G20man

skipper34 said:


> Personally I don't think the DNR/NRC outlawed baiting for disease control at all. They have wanted to discontinue baiting in Michigan for years and CWD is their trump card.


What has happened is. 
Prior to the 2 gallon rule the DNR recommended the NRC to ban baiting. I can't recall the reason. 
Using sound science ...lol ...the NRC determined a 2 gallon rule spread over a 10 x 10 area was sufficient making the truck load piles now illegal. 

After the deer found with cwd in the Kent county enclosure the state went into action with the cwd response plan. 
Bait ban in the entire LP was part of that plan. 
I believe it was after 3 years the bait ban was able to be lifted. 
Once again the DNR recommended to keep the ban in place, once again the NRC over rode that recommendation. 
Baiting resumed.

Here we are currently again due to cwd facing another bait ban per the cwd response plan. 

Legal baiting is probably gone forever.


----------



## G20man

MrFysch said:


> I think what's lost in alot of this is the rest of the wildlife that benefits from my spin feeder. The 10 or 12 turkeys that the wife and I enjoy watching. The squirrels and rabbits. The benefit of stopping baiting has to be weighed against all factors. Not just on the chance it may stop a couple deer from transmitting the disease. Short sightedness is a trademark with our state game managers. I will clear an acre of my land and put in a bait plot so I can legally keep bringing deer onto my 5 acres that otherwise would never be there. Then I can comply with our new law that in the end will accomplish absolutely nothing.


Wildlife shouldn't have to depend on man for food. 
It's not really a benefit. It's an easy meal and they become dependant on it and that's the problem.


----------



## sureshot006

Curious what 357maxi would have to say on this subject.


----------



## G20man

sureshot006 said:


> Holier than thou. That is all.


No where have I ever even tried to convey that. 
All my responses on this issue have been to those trying to say a bait ban will make law abiding hunters into violators. 

There is no reason anyone would be ticketed for baiting if they don't bait. 
If you arrive at your stand and someone placed a bait pile there call law enforcement and find out what your next move is.


----------



## sureshot006

G20man said:


> There is no reason anyone would be ticketed for baiting if they don't bait.
> If you arrive at your stand and someone placed a bait pile there call law enforcement and find out what your next move is.


I dont know about you, but I typically walk into the stand in the dark in the morning, and don't walk around shooting lanes. Corn would be hard to see unless dumped in a literal pile.


----------



## MrFysch

G20man said:


> Wildlife shouldn't have to depend on man for food.
> It's not really a benefit. It's an easy meal and they become dependant on it and that's the problem.


They shouldn't but they do. Every clear cut..corn field..soybean field ..apple orchard..food plot ...all man-made and all provide food sources that animals become dependant on.


----------



## mbrewer

Dish7 said:


> You should have inserted the laughing face after "conscientious objectors" because that is hilarious. Now the bait ban is infringing on people's freedom of religion or civil rights LOL.
> As for the everyone else getting over themselves, I am _perceiving _a "glass houses" theme. If so, I guess go ahead strip all the laws off the books because how in the world can any leo cite anyone. They're just people too with a violation of some kind in their past.
> This thread about an illegal pile of carrots has really spiralled down a rabbit hole LOL.


It's _*HUMOR!*_

Please *RELAX!
*


----------



## mbrewer

LabtechLewis said:


> Maybe "the highest horse there is" fits better?


At this point I have no idea what anyone but me is talking about.


----------



## Dish7

mbrewer said:


> It's _*HUMOR!*_
> 
> Please *RELAX!*


Yes I know, that's why I have the LOLs in my response. LOL...no wait *LOL.*


----------



## Dish7

mbrewer said:


> At this point I have no idea what anyone but me is talking about.


That's the first post of yours that any of us understood as well. *LOL.*


----------



## mbrewer

Dish7 said:


> Yes I know, that's why I have the LOLs in my response. LOL...no wait *LOL.*


See, I'm losing it. It's getting to where I can't tell if I'm talking to a pr_ck or a P_s_y. :evil::lol:


----------



## John Singer

sureshot006 said:


> I dont know about you, but I typically walk into the stand in the dark in the morning, and don't walk around shooting lanes. Corn would be hard to see unless dumped in a literal pile.


Are you guys talking about "Revenge Baiting"?


----------



## sureshot006

John Singer said:


> Are you guys talking about "Revenge Baiting"?


Possibly. RidgeWalker said he had someone place over 2 gal of bait where he could have gotten in trouble for it. Probably not common but could happen.


----------



## John Singer

sureshot006 said:


> Possibly. RidgeWalker said he had someone place over 2 gal of bait where he could have gotten in trouble for it. Probably not common but could happen.


I read his post. 

I doubt it will be common. 

Might be a good excuse if one is caught baiting. 

It is not common in waterfowl hunting. In waterfowl hunting, the hunter is responsible for knowing if a hunting location is baited or not.


----------



## Liver and Onions

G20man said:


> ............
> If you arrive at your stand and someone placed a bait pile there call law enforcement and find out what your next move is.


I can see the DNR RAP line getting about a thousand calls around first light on the morning of Nov. 15th. this fall. All saying that they have no idea where it came from, but it looks like there is some bait about 50 yds. from my stand. Perfect alibi. 

L & O


----------



## stickbow shooter

G20man said:


> No where have I ever even tried to convey that.
> All my responses on this issue have been to those trying to say a bait ban will make law abiding hunters into violators.
> 
> There is no reason anyone would be ticketed for baiting if they don't bait.
> If you arrive at your stand and someone placed a bait pile there call law enforcement and find out what your next move is.


If I got to my stand and found a bait there, I would pull my stand and tip the F out of there. Ain't no way I am calling John law in that situation. They wouldn't believe me and hand me the ticket. Plus probably come up with a few others also.


----------



## G20man

MrFysch said:


> They shouldn't but they do. Every clear cut..corn field..soybean field ..apple orchard..food plot ...all man-made and all provide food sources that animals become dependant on.


I knew that would be the response.

Ok. You are correct but those are large scale practices done for human consumption/use.
Not a feeder for recreation.

Even so crops have made animals dependant on them for food. Not intentionally like a feeder, bait pile or food plot none of which are really habitat in the consideration of the carrying capacity. ( You could argue food plots but imo that's even a stretch)
AG because it's such a large part of the landscape across farm country it has become a factor of carrying capacity at the farmers expense unfortunately.

Clear cuts on the other hand. Those are good for wildlife in more ways than just food. Also good for the forest.
Next best thing would be a wild fire but I think most would rather stick with clear cuts.

Point is the land should be able to support the wildlife without man's help. 
In farm country by default of the business they have created land that supports the wildlife.


----------



## G20man

sureshot006 said:


> Possibly. RidgeWalker said he had someone place over 2 gal of bait where he could have gotten in trouble for it. Probably not common but could happen.


If you believe that wild story. I'm guessing there more to it or like I said exaggerated.


----------



## sureshot006

G20man said:


> If you believe that wild story. I'm guessing there more to it or like I said exaggerated.


I just have zero reason to not believe him, and havent seen anything really exaggerated from him. Crazier crap happens.


----------



## JDHunts

G20man said:


> I knew that would be the response.
> 
> Ok. You are correct but those are large scale practices done for human consumption/use.
> Not a feeder for recreation.
> 
> Even so crops have made animals dependant on them for food. Not intentionally like a feeder, bait pile or food plot none of which are really habitat in the consideration of the carrying capacity. ( You could argue food plots but imo that's even a stretch)
> AG because it's such a large part of the landscape across farm country it has become a factor of carrying capacity at the farmers expense unfortunately.
> 
> Clear cuts on the other hand. Those are good for wildlife in more ways than just food. Also good for the forest.
> Next best thing would be a wild fire but I think most would rather stick with clear cuts.
> 
> Point is the land should be able to support the wildlife without man's help.
> In farm country by default of the business they have created land that supports the wildlife.


Deer take advantage of man supplied food sources, but in the UP, they will leave the food plots, feeders, and bait piles when it's time to migrate, so they're not depending on that food, imo, it just gives them extra heading into winter.


----------



## Luv2hunteup

Liver and Onions said:


> I can see the DNR RAP line getting about a thousand calls around first light on the morning of Nov. 15th. this fall. All saying that they have no idea where it came from, but it looks like there is some bait about 50 yds. from my stand. Perfect alibi.
> 
> L & O


Perfect confession for knowingly hunting over bait. Maybe the RAP line will take credit cards to pay their fines on the spot.


----------



## mbrewer

mbrewer said:


> See, I'm losing it. It's getting to where I can't tell if I'm talking to a pr_ck or a P_s_y. :evil::lol:


 I quoted my own post just to make sure dish and everyone else didn't think that post was serious or directed at him. Rather be safe than sorry cause I love me some Dish too.:lol:


----------



## G20man

mbrewer said:


> I quoted my own post just to make sure dish and everyone else didn't think that post was serious or directed at him. Rather be safe than sorry cause I love me some Dish too.:lol:


Sad in today's world two men can't have some banter without a disclaimer. 
I laughed at the posts.


----------



## G20man

sureshot006 said:


> I just have zero reason to not believe him, and havent seen anything really exaggerated from him. Crazier crap happens.


I believe something happened.


----------



## DirtySteve

stickbow shooter said:


> If I got to my stand and found a bait there, I would pull my stand and tip the F out of there. Ain't no way I am calling John law in that situation. They wouldn't believe me and hand me the ticket. Plus probably come up with a few others also.


When my in law was caught over baiting the officer got him opening day after several failed attempts previously. When he finally caught him in the stand he was over bait by probably 3-4 times the limit maybe more, He had no name on stand, he left his license at the cabin a couple miles away so he was hunting without a license, and he had no wallet as that was in his truck. 

What did the officer do? He allowed him to pick up his bait to the point he was legal. ( even helped with the picking up a few beets) He walked back to his truck with him to allow him to show an ID at the vehicle, he cited him for over bait and apologized for interfering with his opening day (the guy genuinely felt bad because my in law was hunting with his young son). Then told my in law to attach a name tag to his stand and wait 24 hrs before hunting it. He issued a ticket for illegal bait and went on his way.

My point in all this is I dont get the fear if DNR. I was stopped twice this year. Once opening day of duck season and once last week of pheasant season. Both times were pleasant experiences and both times we were watched awhile from afar with binoculars before being stopped to check licenses and game. One of the officers even gave us a few pointers on the area.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Gizzard

DirtySteve said:


> When my in law was caught over baiting the officer got him opening day after several failed attempts previously. When he finally caught him in the stand he was over bait by probably 3-4 times the limit maybe more, He had no name on stand, he left his license at the cabin a couple miles away so he was hunting without a license, and he had no wallet as that was in his truck.
> 
> What did the officer do? He allowed him to pick up his bait to the point he was legal. ( even helped with the picking up a few beets) He walked back to his truck with him to allow him to show an ID at the vehicle, he cited him for over bait and apologized for interfering with his opening day (the guy genuinely felt bad because my in law was hunting with his young son). Then told my in law to attach a name tag to his stand and wait 24 hrs before hunting it. He issued a ticket for illegal bait and went on his way.
> 
> My point in all this is I dont get the fear if DNR. I was stopped twice this year. Once opening day of duck season and once last week of pheasant season. Both times were pleasant experiences and both times we were watched awhile from afar with binoculars before being stopped to check licenses and game. One of the officers even gave us a few pointers on the area.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


I think most guys on here - feel the same way about the guys and women that are in the field - I think most rage or content is directed toward their bosses and the general gov't involvement . just thoughts


----------



## Trophy Specialist

Just because you disagree with someone on one issue does not mean that he is making up stuff on this issue. I have run into lots of tool on public lands (private too) and I'm not surprised by any low life stories I hear these days. I once had some zeros accuse me of trespassing on public land and after threatening to beat me up didn't drive me away, they pretended to call the DNR on me to try to scare me off. There was no cell signal in that area though, so I eventually left and phoned the DNR when I got to the top of a known, good signal hill. They came there very quickly and I went back to the spot with the CO. When he got there they were breaking so many laws that he wrote tickets until his fingers hurt. Every time they started to bitch at the CO, he just wrote more tickets in response.


----------



## Luv2hunteup

There is no lack of law breakers to keep our COs busy. A quick look at the monthly CO reports is just the tip of the iceberg of what they deal with on a daily basis. I’m glad they are out there doing their jobs.


----------



## Scout 2

sureshot006 said:


> I just have zero reason to not believe him, and havent seen anything really exaggerated from him. Crazier crap happens.


I think he probably has more time in the field than you have ever had but could be wrong as I don't know either of you. But to say it never happened is a far fetched. I could show 3 dirt piles along my east line that I cover during muzzleloader season that each had 30 lbs or more of corn in them and there was a tree stand just off the property line. I took the loader and dropped dirt on each of them. I know who put them there and I am sur they were not put there to get me into trouble but I will have a talk to the party who dumped them there when they come up again. If I had been hunting anywhere in the area they may have fined me for baiting even though I did not know they were there. I very seldom go in that area on my land so I do not know how many times this may have been going on


----------



## sureshot006

Scout 2 said:


> I think he probably has more time in the field than you have ever had but could be wrong as I don't know either of you. But to say it never happened is a far fetched. I could show 3 dirt piles along my east line that I cover during muzzleloader season that each had 30 lbs or more of corn in them and there was a tree stand just off the property line. I took the loader and dropped dirt on each of them. I know who put them there and I am sur they were not put there to get me into trouble but I will have a talk to the party who dumped them there when they come up again. If I had been hunting anywhere in the area they may have fined me for baiting even though I did not know they were there. I very seldom go in that area on my land so I do not know how many times this may have been going on


I'd say that might be true if he's older than us. Up til the last 2 years I was in the woods a ton since I could walk. I am not sure how that even matters in this instance.


----------



## Scout 2

sureshot006 said:


> I'd say that might be true if he's older than us. Up til the last 2 years I was in the woods a ton since I could walk. I am not sure how that even matters in this instance.


More years in the field you see more things that happen. I have no doubt that this will happen a lot this fall if people do not get along with their neighbors or could even on state land if someone wants to hunt the area you are


----------



## sureshot006

Scout 2 said:


> More years in the field you see more things that happen. I have no doubt that this will happen a lot this fall if people do not get along with their neighbors or could even on state land if someone wants to hunt the area you are


My guess is we've both been hunting the whole time bait has been restricted and/or banned in MI. But anyway...

I think its stupid that anyone would play a dumb game like tossing bait to intentionally get some innocent person in trouble. But then again, there are some really crazy folks out there and it will happen. Won't be a whole lot the innocent can do about it.


----------



## Scout 2

sureshot006 said:


> My guess is we've both been hunting the whole time bait has been restricted and/or banned in MI. But anyway...
> 
> I think its stupid that anyone would play a dumb game like tossing bait to intentionally get some innocent person in trouble. But then again, there are some really crazy folks out there and it will happen. Won't be a whole lot the innocent can do about it.


I have been deer hunting since 1962 and have seen many changes this one does not affect me and stlll would not even if I did not own land. To see what kind of people that are now hunting just read thru some of these forums and that should give you a good idea. Most are or seem to be great guys but many just come across as AH


----------



## mbrewer

Trophy Specialist said:


> Just because you disagree with someone on one issue does not mean that he is making up stuff on this issue. I have run into lots of tool on public lands (private too) and I'm not surprised by any low life stories I hear these days. I once had some zeros accuse me of trespassing on public land and after threatening to beat me up didn't drive me away, they pretended to call the DNR on me to try to scare me off. There was no cell signal in that area though, so I eventually left and phoned the DNR when I got to the top of a known, good signal hill. They came there very quickly and I went back to the spot with the CO. When he got there they were breaking so many laws that he wrote tickets until his fingers hurt. Every time they started to bitch at the CO, he just wrote more tickets in response.


I don't believe it.

All that threatening and posturing and you never showed them or mentioned the arm wrestling medals?

Nah, not believable, didn't happen.

Next.


----------



## Dish7

mbrewer said:


> I quoted my own post just to make sure dish and everyone else didn't think that post was serious or directed at him. Rather be safe than sorry cause I love me some Dish too.:lol:


No worries here. I never take this stuff personally.
BTW, I'm neither. 



G20man said:


> Sad in today's world two men can't have some banter without a disclaimer.
> I laughed at the posts.


No disclaimer necessary for me. I never take these back and forth debates personally. I am fully capable of strongly disagreeing with one post and agreeing with the next from the same member. I would hope that anyone posting on an internet forum would not be thinned skinned. It's never just smiley faces and likes LOL.


----------



## mbrewer

Dish7 said:


> No worries here. I never take this stuff personally.
> BTW, I'm neither.
> 
> No disclaimer necessary for me. I never take these back and forth debates personally. I am fully capable of strongly disagreeing with one post and agreeing with the next from the same member. I would hope that anyone posting on an internet forum would not be thinned skinned. It's never just smiley faces and likes LOL.


Good, me too.

I do want you to know, I'm wondering but not asking, what bathroom you use when you identify as neither.

A half true story.


----------



## Scout 2

mbrewer said:


> Good, me too.
> 
> I do want you to know, I'm wondering but not asking, what bathroom you use when you identify as neither.
> 
> A half true story.


Which ever is closer if you got to go real bad


----------



## Waif

Private land the owner used to let anyone hunt.

A hunt years ago (bait was legal) traffic cleared out after the morning hunt , and after a foiled still hunt across the road on public land I returned and was still hunting the property.
Killed a deer "browsing" and until I approached where it had been standing I had no idea there were a few carrots there . An old site some one had baited earlier in the year , but it was bait none the less.

People using illegal bait to dissuade some one else from using a site , or to frame some one?
Compared to some other shenanigans people pull , it would be no surprise.
That is not saying bait should be legal due to abuse of it's use.
Only that some people are , ....well some people.

My guess (danger , speculation warning) is that those enforcing bait law do their homework / compile solid evidence on some sites before lowering the boom on flagrant violators.


----------



## Trophy Specialist

mbrewer said:


> I don't believe it.
> 
> All that threatening and posturing and you never showed them or mentioned the arm wrestling medals?
> 
> Nah, not believable, didn't happen.
> 
> Next.


I didn't even have any arm wrestling medals then as it happened a long time ago.


----------



## Dish7

mbrewer said:


> Good, me too.
> 
> I do want you to know, I'm wondering but not asking, what bathroom you use when you identify as neither.
> 
> A half true story.


I prefer my home bathroom. Not fond of public restrooms.


----------



## sureshot006

Trophy Specialist said:


> Anybody ever have a loaded gun or bow out in the woods outside of exact hunting hours? Ever read the laws on artificial lights during deer season? How about tagging laws? Every hunter I know have broke those but not your group? Lol


No way. I always wait until the clock ticks hunting hours to load a round in my rifle.

Probably a lot of crickets chirping around your post...


----------



## fishx65

Friend of mine has a bunch of cobbed corn feeders for squirrels. There just wood frames attached to trees that have nails sticking out of them to hold the cobs and are about 5 feet off the ground. Legal or not legal after the 31st??????


----------



## Craves

mbrewer said:


> My thoughts and actions are very similar.
> 
> Let me add this; I appreciate your willingness to discuss the topic, the message over the messenger. I wish more people would accept the challenge, minimal as it is.


FWIW...I had a couple bucks on my camera that were my target bucks for the year. One for sure was killed by my neighbor. I didn't have a great picture of the second buck, but I think he was killed by another neighbor who belongs to our informal group. One other buck was killed that I did not see on camera. All 3 bucks were aged at 3.5 years old. I passed on 4 or 5 little bucks between bow &gun season(s).

I killed a 2.5 year old on state land, which is my goal going into the season for state land. I passed on a beautiful spike the next night from the same stand, and filmed him instead.

Happy New Year Brewster.


----------



## G20man

feedinggrounds said:


> Many including myself during the last bait ban planted fruit trees, specifically to add to a bait plots ability to attract deer for me to shoot. And shoot them I do, with a apple or pear right in the mouth. I imagine more instant harvest trees will be planted next year.


Good job.
All of that is legal.


----------



## feedinggrounds

G20man said:


> Good job.
> All of that is legal.


So that makes the ill thought out baiting ban look even more stupid. Unless it is the bone I claim being tossed.


----------



## G20man

feedinggrounds said:


> So that makes the ill thought out baiting ban look even more stupid. Unless it is the bone I claim being tossed.


That's an opinion. 
You want them to use sound science or not? 
Should they consider social science or not?


----------



## Liver and Onions

mattawanhunter said:


> .......
> It's a shame when it's got to be sportsmen, with nothing better to do than to bicker with their own brotherhood!
> 
> .........


Is that what you were doing in post # 1095 on the previous page ? Where you accused successful hunters with full buck poles with poaching. Had to be poaching right, because you and your group are not as successful ?

L & O


----------



## Joe Archer

It looks like about 31% (120/386) will continue to bait even after it becomes illegal. 
I'd say this thread has long run its course. 
<----<<<


----------

