# Sportsman Watch Group



## Guest (Dec 19, 2002)

How about Boehr's Bunch. Just kidding, but I still would like to be part of it.........Matt


----------



## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Since the "SMART" was my first choice and this program may include pollution reports, how about STEEL?

Sportsmen Together Enforcing Environmental Laws


----------



## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Or WORM

Watching our Rivers in Michigan


----------



## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

You can tell he's working too hard and don't like it. Too much anger in his thoughts....


----------



## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Altough this isn't too crafty:

Sportsman For the Ethical Use of Our Environment
or
Sportsman For the Ethical Use of Our Resources
or
Sprotsman Ensuring Ethical Use of Our Resources

anyway, I think some of these are "key" words that others could manipulate.


----------



## gunrod (Jan 16, 2001)

Tell you the truth I like Clay's ideas but......

I like SMART.


----------



## unregistered55 (Mar 12, 2000)

Operation "W.A.T.C.H."

"We're All The Conservation Helpers"


----------



## mich buckmaster (Nov 20, 2001)

Michigan Sportsman Alliance Against Poaching


----------



## east bay ed (Dec 18, 2002)

great idea. the local sportsmans group here has started putting the rap hotline number in every newsletter and asks its mebers to keep a eye out for violators. also on the black river (south of alpena) the locals have worked out a program with the sgt. for this region.


----------



## jdt (Jun 30, 2002)

i see a lot of good names,hard to pick one!
i would like to ask boehr a question about the watch people.
if one of the people on watch were hurt by the poachers, i know that the state would take the appropriate steps to prosecute the law breakers,but who would be responsible for any medical help if the watcher were critiically injured


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

You are on your own. Someone on the watch group should *not* be trying to stop, arrest or detain another. Your just to be a good witness, that's all.


----------



## jdt (Jun 30, 2002)

thanks boehr, i guess what i ment to say ,what if word got around that i was watching for violations.i think that after awhile
some of these poachers will get wise to who may be watchers,i know that some c.o.`s have been shot /shot at/beat up!
do you recall a couple of years ago a c.o. was shot and killed up 
near roscommonbecause of a poacher. some of those snaggers/poachers hate all forms of law!and like to get revenge!
i hope that im just overreacting!


----------



## Trushot_Archer (Dec 2, 2002)

I'm very interested in any developments. If anyone could keep me posted and let me know what or how I can help in this area, please let me know...Great Idea Shoeman. I believe this could be a very effective venture. 

One question though...what criteria would need to be met to get a patch? What stops a known and convicted poacher from obtaining a patch?? Just curious. I don'y mean to sound nrgative, just wonder how it works.


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Program participants will not be able to just volunteer and be part of the program. They will be checked out to see if they are sporstmen or not. I don't want to say, just if they were ever ticketed because a mistake can be over looked and as I have said before I don't consider a person who makes a mistake to be a poacher. So we are not going to give out patches or hats or whatever is decided like free bees at a county fair.


----------



## jdt (Jun 30, 2002)

i fear that( some) see this as becoming a legal part of law enforcement with the dnr.with forms of power and patches and badges maybe uniforms of a sort.these people will be gung ho,and will get into trouble,maybe hurt.poachers play by their own rules!if this program does not have some kind of screening
system,and education agenda against law breakers it will not last.
also i believe that it wont take long for the poachers to know who is ,and who isnt ! maybe that will be the biggest asset of all!
them knowing!


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

This is not a "just join and automatically and be part of" program.

This is not any type of covert program either. Particpants have *no* more authority than any other citizen.

The bottom line is if you don't think it's a good program, don't participate. This is no different than nieghborhood watches where signs to that effect are posted in participating neighborhoods. The biggest advantage of this program are extra eyes and ears that are more organized. Nothing is going to happen with this program than a sportsman can't do right now if he/she choose to.


----------



## trapstercarl (Oct 2, 2001)

heres an Idea
how about placing them flyers on illegal stands/bait piles when the hunter is not there? or maybe as a group we can go pull the treestands on stateland that haven't been removed as of Jan 3?
was rabbit hunting on stateland today and saw aprox 10-15 ladder stands mostly homemade still up most of them were illegal nailed to trees. this group is more of a annoyance or deterant to poachers rather than a gung ho arresting group.all we have to do is A get them to quit because there being watched by people that will report them B get them to work a lot harder for the game there trying to poach thus the lazy ones will give up. I'll try and help as much as possible boehr . carl


----------



## Sam (Dec 31, 2002)

I saw plenty of unlawful activity in the woods this season alone and in the past 8 years I have hunted the same area I have only seen the DNR out there once. I would be in favor of just about any program that could help.


----------



## trapstercarl (Oct 2, 2001)

well if there was a large group I doubt it would be a problem. and we could auction off the stuff and have that fund our program.or maybe a wild game dinner to fund this program? we could also remove the numerous ground blind and chairs left also. I saw a setup today that was dangerous. had 2 ground blinds facing each other. both of them could only see about 10 yards.they were both using buckshot (emptys) the blind were about 45-50 yards apart.anything I can do will have to wait until june so I can drive there (only 15) carl


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Let's not be consern about funding for the program. I cringed when I read about actions of illegal tree stands or wild game dinners. That could create all kinds of problems so let's be careful.

I'm going to try to set up a couple of meetings in the very near future as I would like the program to be kind of operating for the spring fish runs.


----------



## nymph (Dec 14, 2001)

I would certainly participate as much as my time would allow.

Also, brainstormed for a few program names. Not sure that they will go anywhere, but they're food for thought.


Representative of Environmental Patrol (REP)
Representative of Ethics Patrol (REP)
Sportsmen To Outlaw Poaching (STOP)
Sportsmen To Eliminate Poaching (STEP)
WeCU (what it is!)
Michigans United Sportsman Troop (MUST)
Sportsmen Against Deprivation (SAD)
Representative of Ethical Environmental Practices (REEP)
Representative of Ethical Sportsmen Troop (REST)
Michigan Against Poaching (MAP)
Michiganders Against Poaching (MAP)
Michigan Outdoorsmen Against Poaching (MOAP)
The Real United Sportsmens Troop (TRUST)
The Reclaiming United Sportsmens Troop (TRUST)
The Retained United Sportsmens Troop (TRUST)
The Resilient United Sportsmens Troop (TRUST)
The Rescuing United Sportsmens Troop (TRUST)
The Rescuers United Sportsmens Troop (TRUST)


Anyway, I look forward to further information regarding the program. It's nice to see so many sportsmen concerned.


nymph


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Excellent nymph!!!


----------



## turkey tom (Apr 22, 2001)

Count me in. All for this idea.


----------



## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

Its a good idea, but I doubt it will ever work, too much apathy. I can see everyone saying "Good Idea" , or yeah I'll sign up, but when the time comes, do you really think they'll be there? Well only time will tell. I do believe its a good idea, go ahead and take the ball and run with it shoeman, if you can squeeze it into your schedule, everyone would appreciate it.


----------



## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

It will never work, we'll never get out of here, we'll all be destroyed.....

Cheer up man. It's a brand new year.


----------



## stevebrandle (Jan 23, 2000)

Anything we do to help people "do the right thing" is worth-while. I believe there are two types of poachers. There's the hardcore catch-me-if-you-can's that will work to outsmart any program. And then there's the people that realize, maybe by accident, that you can get away with stuff a lot of the time. I think a passive watch group might keep more of the second type of people honest. 

My sugestion for a name is ROC Resource Observation Cooperator. 

Great Idea boehr!!


----------



## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

I'm just fine Ralf, I just thought it would appropriate to point that out. In that way, only the ones who really want to get involved will join the band wagon. Yeah I'll do it, I do have time constraints from time to time.

All I am saying is, if you want to be involved, and say you'll do it, then damn do it. Not like our ill adventured fight against HB5566, that didn't go so well.


----------



## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

> _Originally posted by toto _
> * Not like our ill adventured fight against HB5566, that didn't go so well. *


It didn't? I'm not so sure. If it wasn't for all the emails we sent, we'd be throwing stones and hare's ears right now.

None of us can devote 24/7. It's the little time we have and willing to give, that can make a difference. Seeing this is non-structured, whenever you fish the Betsie, wear your hat/patch.

This year I plan on surrounding myself with positives.


----------



## Al L (Mar 22, 2001)

I'm in as is my son and Pete who owns in back of him.
 Al


----------



## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

Hey Ralf, I'm only trying to point out, that if you want to help, then do it.

If you want positives, then you owe people apologies sometimes.


----------



## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

> _Originally posted by toto _
> *If you want positives, then you owe people apologies sometimes. *


Sometimes? All the time!


----------



## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

I quess I'll take that as one.

Now for my true feelings on your prposal. This is a great idea, but really has to happen is the DNR really wants to eradicate the poachers. I have seen evidence in the past of CO's bending the rules, and basically turning their heads. This plan will work great if they (CO's) will answer. I'm not saying that they don't do their jobs, and I realize there aren't enough of them, but the ones who know of these problems need to get on board as well. Thats the frustrating part to me, they know who is doing the poaching in some areas, and they know and where they are doing snagging, but nothing seems to come of it. Why, for example, do I never see a DNR officer on the Betsie during the height of the salmon season. Never have seen one.

Having said all that, I will whole heartedly support any effort of this kind, just tell what to do, and how to go about it, and I'm in, period nothing more to be said.


----------



## msiebers (Jan 17, 2000)

Very late getting onto this thread, but I would very much like to be involved in this project as well Boehr. Been quite busy at home as of late.
Anyway, you know how much I tend to get around your district Boehr...both by land and sea, errr river.
Count me in and let me know how I can help.

Mike


----------



## Danatodd99 (Dec 26, 2001)

I as well would be greatly interested in assisting Co's make sure we have a level playing field.

Boehr, just post when and where and I'll be there.


----------



## Randy Kidd (Apr 21, 2001)

Once the program is in place we would need a method to educate the sportsmen of the state as to what the program is all about and how to identify the participants in the field. Perhaps include something in all of the hunting and fishing guides, and have posters for retailers to put up in their sporting goods departments. Maybe ask the hosts of our outdoors shows to run a short segment about it. And finally I think that all of the people who would be participating should wear the same thing to identify them as members of the program, Something that can be recognized from a distance. Maybe a blaze orange patch on a dark or camo hat. Something that a poacher can see heading his way and know instantly what that person stands for. In any case I am in and I will do what I can.


----------



## Randy Kidd (Apr 21, 2001)

"Rubber bullets and gas grenades" That's a little extreme Clay, especially when you know perfectly well that a taser is all that's needed


----------



## dongiese (Jun 10, 2002)

Can or should a CCW holder particapate in this program?


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

That is up to you, you will not be in any enforcement situations so if you have a CCW or not, it doesn't matter. This program will be, you being a good witness and you will be told/taught things to watch/look for, to be a good witness.


----------



## dongiese (Jun 10, 2002)

ok. I was just wondering if this has come up at all yet. I understand the roll of the program. No I'm not looking to start anything, It's just that the way this country is now if something was to happen they would try a lawsuit against the DNR.


----------



## Elk Guide (Dec 19, 2000)

Ray......Great idea count me in.....i keep an eye on people up in the elk area so i would think this could help our elk herd a lot.....thanks carl


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

One of my sergeants has been getting an area community project together. If you are interested in participating here is the info.

A meeting has been scheduled for interested persons at the Hamilton High School in Allegan County on Friday, March 28, 2003. The address is 136th Street, Hamilton and is located approximately ¾ of a mile West of M-40 in Heath Twp. The room was reserved from 6:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. with the meeting starting at 7:00 p.m.

The actual project will be held for a two week period beginning April 7, 2003 and ending on Sunday April 20. This period is during the walleye closure and peek spawning steelhead runs. The project will encompass The Allegan Dam and/or the Hamilton Dam, depending on how many interested people we have.


----------



## Spanky (Mar 21, 2001)

Ray, Dave has called me to ask for our clubs support of the watch program at allegan, I told him I would get with our club( Battle creek steelheaders) this week weds night and ask for their input. I also pledged my support in the form of voluntering for at least a couple shifts. I have seen many fish illegally taken from the Dam area over the last 10 yrs. and have made quite a few RAP calls about it. It will be nice to see some of the poachers get tagged!

It is a great way to help our enforcement teams, instead of just complaining about them!


----------



## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

How does this differ from the various "River Watches" currently being held in the state on rivers such as the Big M and PM?


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

It doesn't really differ. It's just full time and for everything, not just limited to fishing.


----------



## gunrod (Jan 16, 2001)

Boehr, how goes the progress with this idea? With the season coming up (and hopefully the fish) I was just wondering where the plan stood. Thanks.


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

It's progressing, slowly, which is why I am posting the river watches as they come up (see about 3 posts up) so those that want involvement can be informed and become involved if they choose. Budget problems have not helped progress though. Not just the money itself but different things that must be accomplished addressing different issues that take up time.


----------



## gunrod (Jan 16, 2001)

Thanks....I think when the idea was proposed it was understood it would be difficult to put in place by spring but was just curious. Thanks for your effort.


----------



## unregistered55 (Mar 12, 2000)

What can we do for having a watch at some of the popular SE Michigan Rivers...I know NO DNR hardly ever are there...


----------



## gunrod (Jan 16, 2001)

I know Ypsi was trying to work one out for the Huron in Flat Rock due to the number of walleye that mysteriously disappear from the river after March 15th. 

Don, I think you just have to contact the local officer and see what you can setup. I'm sure if you and the officer can work it out the people will turn out to help. I believe Boehr already posted on this but it's buried in the 9 pages of this thread.

It's good to see this thread stays near the top.


----------



## unregistered55 (Mar 12, 2000)

Boehr, Who is the Officer contact for Macomb/Oakland County and St.Clair County? PM me if ya want...I would like to get something going...


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Contact Sgt Dave Rock. He is the field supervisor for that whole area. [email protected]


----------



## unregistered55 (Mar 12, 2000)

Thanks just sent him an E-mail lets see if he is interested in doing a Watch down here....


----------



## Dawg (Jan 17, 2003)

MRT (Managing Resources Together), slogan: "IPDF" (I pity da fool)

Kinder, gentler approach:
ELMO (Ethical Legal Means Only), logo: Elmo with a mohawk

Seriously though, I'll spend some more time on this.


----------



## Dawg (Jan 17, 2003)

CARE - Conservationists Assisting Resource Ethics
CAP - Coalition Against Poaching
PEEP - Promote Ethics & Eliminate Poaching
CART - Conservationists Against Resource Theft
DOOR - Defending Our Outdoor Resources
EYE - Evaluate Your Ethics


----------



## gunrod (Jan 16, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Dawg _
> *CARE - Conservationists Assisting Resource Ethics
> *


I like this one.


----------



## jdt (Jun 30, 2002)

O.W.L operation wildlife link

NORTHERN OWL
SOUTHERN OWL 
WESTERN OWL 
EASTERN OWL


----------



## Dawg (Jan 17, 2003)

Thanks for the feedback guys. I also started some logo ideas. Ultimately it should be developed for the specific name that is selected...but while I had some ideas I drew them up.


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

The official name will be *CARE*. Community Assisting Resource Enforcement.


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

A meeting has been scheduled for interested persons at the Hamilton High School in Allegan County on Friday, March 28, 2003. The address is 136th Street, Hamilton and is located approximately ¾ of a mile West of M-40 in Heath Twp. The room was reserved from 6:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. with the meeting starting at 7:00 p.m.

The actual project will be held for a two week period beginning April 7, 2003 and ending on Sunday April 20. This period is during the walleye closure and peek spawning steelhead runs. The project will encompass The Allegan Dam and/or the Hamilton Dam, depending on how many interested people we have.


----------



## jdt (Jun 30, 2002)

are there any plans for a watch groups in the northern countys,and the up?


----------

