# Was the Soil Tested?



## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

Concerning the farm in N. Kent County where the deer was fouind that was infected with CWD was the soil in the farm's pens tested to see if the CWD causing prion was present?


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## 6inchtrack (Sep 29, 2008)

A really good question Whit. I would like to hear the answer to your question also.

Mary Dettloff are you still reading?
[/COLOR] 
Pinefarm, could you possibily pose this question to your contacts?

 
I wish they would test the burial site,
I do not dispute that the deer head that was tested was infected. But was it the head from Kent county?
It has been stated that the use of bait was the blight of Michigans deer hunting and the biologist wished to discontinue the practice of using bait.
It also had been pointed that funds were available for Michigan if the disease was discovered here.
There is also the possibility that an anti hunter could have tampered because they felt that it was the right thing to do.
You see there are motives for tampering with the test.
I wish the burial site would be tested to confirm the presents of the infection and rule out these other possibilities. 


If you oppose the feeding / baiting ban go to this site and print a letter to send to your elected officials.
E-Mail the link to your friends and family.
*http://sixinchtrack.tripod.com/*


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Whit, last I knew they are not able to test the soil, unless some new ways of testing have been developed recently. Unfortunately our soil is the type that'll retain the prions for years and years. Last I read they know of no way to disinfect it either.

6inchtrack, why in the world would an anti-hunter plant a CWD deer, because the result is an eradication of the deer in the area


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

FREEPOP said:


> Whit, last I knew they are not able to test the soil, unless some new ways of testing have been developed recently. Unfortunately our soil is the type that'll retain the prions for years and years. Last I read they know of no way to disinfect it either.
> 
> 6inchtrack, why in the world would an anti-hunter plant a CWD deer, because the result is an eradication of the deer in the area


I believe they can test the soil.

If my memory serves me right out in CO, where the prion was first found they removed the soil from the pen and put new soil into it, tested the soil and the prion was still there.

I'll send an email to a contact that I have in WI who's qualified to answer......that's kinda important don'tcha think?. He's been very helpful with questions I've asked before.

NOW...........if I can remember his name in my email addy file.........:lol:


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## 6inchtrack (Sep 29, 2008)

_Whit, last I knew they are not able to test the soil, unless some new ways of testing have been developed recently. Unfortunately our soil is the type that'll retain the prions for years and years. Last I read they know of no way to disinfect it either.
_

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/84/i09/8409prions.html

http://www.cosis.net/abstracts/EGU20...08-A-03029.pdf

_6inchtrack, why in the world would an anti-hunter plant a CWD deer, because the result is an eradication of the deer in the area  _
_[/COLOR]_ 
Have you witnessed what has happened to the sportsman this year?
This forum alone? How many people have been banned? Friend against friend, brother against brother, people who say that they are going to quit deer hunting altogether (maybe us).
People who would not ever think of breaking the law are now lowly poachers in some peoples opinions.
Can you think of a better way to divide us and throw a wrench in the mix?



If you oppose the feeding / baiting ban go to this site and print a letter to send to your elected officials.
E-Mail the link to your friends and family.
*http://sixinchtrack.tripod.com/*


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Whit, I did quite a bit of research a few years ago about Colorado as I was going there to hunt. From memory, they cleaned the pens, and removed some soil but when they put animals in there they still ended up contracting CWD. Last I remember about it was they were trying to find out how, but much has developed since then.

From the links, it sounds like things aren't definate yet: The technique could be "a good starting point"


6inchtrack, I don't feel that the sky is falling or will in the immediate future


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

FREEPOP said:


> Whit, I did quite a bit of research a few years ago about Colorado as I was going there to hunt. From memory, they cleaned the pens, and removed some soil but when they put animals in there they still ended up contracting CWD. Last I remember about it was they were trying to find out how, but much has developed since then.
> 
> From the links, it sounds like things aren't definate yet: The technique could be "a good starting point"
> 
> ...


What you're saying is "ringing a bell" for me. I think you're right. Thanks!

I just emailed Michael D. Samuel at: [email protected] and asked him about the availability of a soil test.

For those reading my posts in here please don't get the idea that I am attempting to stir the pot or take one side or the other in the peripheral issues of CWD. All I'm doing is learning.


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## MaryDettloff (Aug 25, 2008)

Yes, I am still reading...just not as frequently as I would like to. 

No, the soil was not tested. As others have pointed out, in CWD cases in other states, the prion was found to live in the soil indefinitely. In fact, in Colorado, they even burned the ground in a pen were there was CWD and tested the soil afterward, and the prion still existed in the soil. 

This facility will never be a cervid facility again.

There is no evidence the CWD-positive deer was "planted" there. The deer came into contact with another infected animal somewhere in its 3 years. The great mystery is, we don't know how or where. 

Mary Dettloff


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Hi Mary, nice to see you on here


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

MaryDettloff said:


> Yes, I am still reading...just not as frequently as I would like to.
> 
> No, the soil was not tested. As others have pointed out, in CWD cases in other states, the prion was found to live in the soil indefinitely. In fact, in Colorado, they even burned the ground in a pen were there was CWD and tested the soil afterward, and the prion still existed in the soil.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input Mary. Do keep in touch with us.


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## walleyerick (Sep 30, 2004)

If there is no soil test available, then how do they know there are prions in the soil?


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

walleyerick said:


> If there is no soil test available, then how do they know there are prions in the soil?


One way, is to put in new animals that are known to be good, if they contract it, bingo :idea: That's what they did in Colorado for many years, the disease was first discovered in the 60s, BTW.


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## twodogsphil (Apr 16, 2002)

MD said that the soil can be tested -- "In fact, in Colorado, they even burned the ground in a pen were there was CWD and *tested the soil afterward,* and the prion still existed in the soil.


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

twodogsphil said:


> MD said that the soil can be tested -- "In fact, in Colorado, they even burned the ground in a pen were there was CWD and *tested the soil afterward,* and the prion still existed in the soil.


 
I've received email responses from two researchers from WI and both said there is no test yet developed to test the soil outside the lab. They can do a test in the lab IF there is a high enough concentration of the prions and you don't find that in pen soil apparently.

I'm awaiting their permission to quote what they said in the emails.


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## twodogsphil (Apr 16, 2002)

Whit this is a9-16-08 post of yours.

Thanks Jim, that's what I was looking for and thanks also to you Ron.
*
Method to detect infectious proteins in soils could help monitor spread of the diseases they cause*

Steve Ritter

A method to extract and quantitatively detect prions from soil samples has been devised by a team of scientists at two National Institute for Agricultural Research (INRA) labs in France (Environ. Sci. Technol. 2006, 40, 1497). The technique could be "a good starting point" to help identify and map prion-contaminated farmland as well as to monitor the fate of prions over time, notes lead author Peggy Rigou.
Prions are malformed proteins that are thought to be the infectious agents responsible for transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs), such as mad cow disease, scrapie in sheep, and chronic wasting disease in deer. Prions can persist in soil for years, and some animals are suspected of contracting TSEs by drinking water or grazing on ground that was exposed to the carcasses of dead animals; by-products from animal processing; or animal manure, urine, or blood.
A potential method to detect prions in the blood of live animals was reported last year (C&EN, Sept. 5, 2005, page 15), but until now, a method to analyze prions in soil had not been reported, Rigou says. The researchers studied the adsorption and desorption of a recombinant prion protein and other proteins on clay and natural soil samples to understand prion retention mechanisms. They determined that adsorption occurs mainly via the N-terminal domain of the protein.
They then used a denaturing detergent buffer to extract the prions, gel electrophoresis to concentrate samples, and Western blot or ELISA immunoassays for quantitative detection. The method allowed the detection of as little as 0.2 ppb of prions in soil.
INRA is looking at using the method for general environmental monitoring of prions and possibly expanding the method for decontamination of medical devices.
Chemical & Engineering News ISSN 0009-2347 Copyright © 2006 American Chemical Society Related Story

Detecting Prions In Blood C&EN, Sept. 15, 2005 
__________________
"I am glad to say that I have been able to spend a large part of my life where wild things lived in freedom, in northern scenes where they belonged."
Paul L. Errington


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

I know they cant put cervids back in the enclosure and I wonder what precautions have been planed to preclude contact by wild deer?


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

twodogsphil said:


> Whit this is a9-16-08 post of yours.
> 
> Thanks Jim, that's what I was looking for and thanks also to you Ron.
> 
> ...


 
Yes, there seems to be conflicting information out there doesn't there.


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## blizzak (Jan 8, 2009)

MaryDettloff said:


> Yes, I am still reading...just not as frequently as I would like to.
> 
> No, the soil was not tested. As others have pointed out, in CWD cases in other states, the prion was found to live in the soil indefinitely. In fact, in Colorado, they even burned the ground in a pen were there was CWD and tested the soil afterward, and the prion still existed in the soil.
> 
> ...


It seems like with all the money and time we are spreading across the state of Michigan in the name of CWD prevention. It might of been a good idea to look and test at the supposed location of the disease.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

twodogs, read carefully as I don't see any absolutes there



twodogsphil said:


> Whit this is a9-16-08 post of yours.
> 
> Thanks Jim, that's what I was looking for and thanks also to you Ron.
> *
> ...


I don't see anything that indicates any absolutes. From what I gather, they have found ways to find it but there is still much work to be done.


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

FREEPOP said:


> twodogs, read carefully as I don't see any absolutes there
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see anything that indicates any absolutes. From what I gather, they have found ways to find it but there is still much work to be done.


 
From what I've been told from two sources in WI who have worked on this issue for a few years that would be correct. I too was under the impression that there was a soil test available.......thus this thread......and then FP rang my bell (that 2x4 he used hurt.........:lol:.........and with a bit of research yesterday I confirmed that he was correct.

It must be kept in mind that not everyone we/you may talk to in a state agency, be it agriculture or DNR is not knowledgeable on all topics and that is to be expected. What is important is that they be treated with respect and courtesy.


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