# Au Sable will never come back



## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

Despite all the CnR threads lately, and my own personal opinion that to each their own, I have to stress something on the Au Sable. I just talked to a friend who lives up there, and he said people are keeping everything, and roping up all the little 2yo's. If you guys want good fishing again on the Au Sable, you can't kill all those young fish.

All the hard work people did with the cormorant program, and the great survival of a few year classes shouldn't be wasted because everyone is so desperate for fish. I have no problem with people keeping adults on a river like the AS, but you can't get adults killing all of the previous years plants that survived. This is somewhat hypocritical of me, but oh well, the river will _never_ come back this way.


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## RiverRanger (Aug 23, 2006)

Amen to that. I was there Saturday morning and caiught two of those fiesty buggers and that dude next to me ask me why I sent it back, those are good eaters and I explained to him just what AS is describing and the look he gave me was one I will never forget; that right ther told me I will bet there is going to be a lot of those 2 year old fish on ropes, and that just makes me want to cry. And I will bet those people roping them are the ones complaining "It's not like it used to be years ago"


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## rwenglish1 (Jan 6, 2007)

This is just a question, ausable_steelhead, has way more expierence than I do on that river. I have just started river fishing but have heard they plant the Steelhead fish in it. Because of the warm water the fish do not reproduce well. If that is true, than would that not be a put and take river??????

Now you don't have to worry about me, because I can't catch a thing out of that river. But if and when I do, I will decide what I will do with the fish.

I believe there is more going on with other elements that enter the river than just the fisherman.


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## Sander vitreus 01 (Jan 2, 2008)

The key to the river is the lake, fish need food to survive and come back. This should be an interesting year....based on early obs water is gin clear to 40 plus feet...that's not so good. Forget zebras the quggas might be running the show. Good if ur a scuba diver bad for the fish....sterile..

_OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors_


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## SJC (Sep 3, 2002)

I think steelhead are finding plenty of food. Steelhead don't need alewives. We have been catching a ton of 1 to 3 pound footballs that are immature and apparently eatin' good in the neiborhood. Everything we have been catching looks very healthy. My buddy strung a short fat 4 pounder for eggs and got her home only to find that she had no spawn. These are healthy young fish. I don't like to see them get killed either. I also get PO'ed when I see guys keeping a lot of fish from rivers that get the majority of their run through natural reproduction, but if they bought a fishing license, it's legal.


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## brookies101 (Jun 23, 2008)

one thing to keep in mind is that not everyone out there gets on this website or similar sites, which in turn usually means that they do not have the education that we do. Most people don't know whats going on with that river. And although it may be legal to keep whatever you feel like (as long as its legal), for a river that is trying to rebound, it very well may not be okay. 

I agree with AS, that river will not rebound with its current regulations. As long as these skippers are caught and kept on a *regular* basis, expect very few big fish to be caught. Maybe some signs around popular access points would help to educate a bit, sh**, I don't know.

Just my opinion, take it for what its worth


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## Ron Matthews (Aug 10, 2006)

Convince DNR to make a change in regulation?


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## Fishslayer5789 (Mar 1, 2007)

Do any of you guys think some of the problem is that a lot of people *CAN'T TELL *the difference between an adult and juvenile fish? I catch adult steelhead every year that are between 2 and 4 lbs (nearly all males), and the same goes for kings. I caught some adult kings that were in the 4 to 5 lb range when bobber fishing last September. To me, it's obvious which fish are adults and which fish are not, but to someone who doesn't know a whole lot about fishing for steelhead/salmon, they might not know how to tell the difference. I throw nearly all young fish back in the river, but on the boat out in the big lake, we box everything. In that case, I would be hypocritical as well for keeping young fish. I view river fishing a lot differently than fishing out in the boat on the big lake, personally.


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## herb09 (Jan 11, 2009)

The regs should be changed to one fish for a couple of years,everything else has been tried. As was just said education would also help, allot of folks think steelhead only return once, I hear that all the time on the river as the reason for keeping them.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

> Convince DNR to make a change in regulation?


 


There were always good numbers of Skippers in the Ausable, but there were LOTS of adult fish, too. Most people released Skips in favor of keeping adult fish. But now there just aren't the numbers of adult fish, although there are decent numbers of Skippers, so some people rope up the little ones. This begs some serious questions about the fishery.

1) How old are those small fish, really? I happen to know that some of them are mature males at 17" - I caught a bunch of them last Fall, and one was bleeding badly so I cleaned it. It had fully mature milt sacks. If those are not actually 2 year old fish, but are 3 (or even 4) year olds, then the lake just isn't feeding them well enough to develop to a good size. That would be a shame, but is certainly a possibility, given the current state of lake Huron. If they are 2 years old, why are they sexually mature? 

2) Where are the adult fish? I don't for one minute think that all of the 2 year old fish return to the river as precocious Skippers, and all get caught and kept. So, where are the adult fish? The 6# - 10# fish. I fished for 4 days last November, and landed 34 Steelhead. 1 was 5#, and the rest were 20" or smaller, with most being 17". I released all except two. Why a ratio of 33:1 for Skippers to adults? 

I applaud all of the efforts to improve the Salmon and Steelhead fishery of the Ausable. A lot of people have put a lot of effort, and a few people have put in a TON of effort, to make this river better for fishing for everyone. And the results just are not good. Cormorants are far less of a problem than they were 5 years ago. FAR less. There have always been Walleyes and Pike in the lake, which could prey on planted smolts. The plain fact is that the Ausable just continues to get worse and worse for fishing. Kings are just done - there aren't enough returning to make fishing the Ausable worth it, for them. Steelhead numbers are pathetic, and they are almost all tiny. 

I can appreciate the intent of the original post. Kept fish absolutely won't get any larger, and won't provide sport for any other anglers. But the problems the Ausable is experiencing are not because some people are keeping some Skipper Steelhead, at least in my opinion. The real problem is what happens to the fish when they go to live in lake Huron for a few years. There are a lot of studies that show Zebra and Quagga Mussels have destroyed the ecosystem of the lake. I haven't seen anything to indicate that any steps are being taken to thwart the Mussels in any way. Everyone is just kind of waiting to see what will happen. To me, it looks like they are killing off our fisheries. That pretty much sucks. :rant:


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

herb09 said:


> The regs should be changed to one fish for a couple of years,everything else has been tried. As was just said education would also help, allot of folks think steelhead only return once, I hear that all the time on the river as the reason for keeping them.


The vast majority of Steelhead which spawn multiple times are hens, and the vast majority of the Skippers in the Ausable are bucks - you can see by the kyped jaws they are males. And many of those little males are mature. And mature male Steelhead will usually spawn until they die, or are caught, or they die post-spawn from the rigors of spawning. So releasing those Skips in the hopes they might spawn again might not work at all.


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## Ron Matthews (Aug 10, 2006)

DNR has told me What your Seeing return is what the lake can support!

Steelhead need to change food sources in order to go from a 2yr old frame to a 3yr old's body. When the fish spend more energy than what they receive in calories trying to maintain a larger body they just get emaciated and die in the lake. They can't pack enough energy away on emeralds alone...
Untill the lake recovers it's ability to sustain a larger forage base We're in trouble!
Fishindude makes a legitimate point: Will Huron recover enough? Parts of Huron do show hope, But only small parts...

I've came to the conclusion we'll have to wait and see what Lk. Huron is going to allow.


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## Ron Matthews (Aug 10, 2006)

Instead of planting ANOTHER 200,000 Kings this Year, why not convince DNR to plant Blue Back Herring with that budget?
It's on the books for this fall...[pen raised fish]

Kelly did tell me 1st truck of steelie smolts goes in this weekend:sad:


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## SJC (Sep 3, 2002)

I don't think that the fish that are being planted in the AuSable are dieing. I think that they just go somewhere else. The ausable has changed so much over the last several years. It is so clear the fish don't want to run it and those that do hit the river, spawn and get out. We catch tons of hatchery fish in other nearby streams that get no plants. I wonder where they came from. I was also talking to a guy from Canada who fishes the other side of the lake and he said that they get a ton of fish with our clips. 

I think there is plenty of food in the lake for steelhead. My cousin is a charter captain and said that all the steelhead that they catch have full stomachs. They are eating bugs, juvenile smelt, shiners and all kinds of stuff. They don't need alewives! When I went to the Lake Huron fishery meet last spring, they even said that steelhead are not having a hard time finding food.

I think the problem is more the river than the lake. I have not had a very hard time catching steelhead this spring, but I have not been fishing the AuSable. The fishing is not as good as it once was, but it is still pretty good where I fish.


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## Ron Matthews (Aug 10, 2006)

SJC said:


> I don't think that the fish that are being planted in the AuSable are dieing. I think that they just go somewhere else. The ausable has changed so much over the last several years. It is so clear the fish don't want to run it and those that do hit the river, spawn and get out. We catch tons of hatchery fish in other nearby streams that get no plants. I wonder where they came from. I was also talking to a guy from Canada who fishes the other side of the lake and he said that they get a ton of fish with our clips.
> 
> I think there is plenty of food in the lake for steelhead. My cousin is a charter captain and said that all the steelhead that they catch have full stomachs. They are eating bugs, juvenile smelt, shiners and all kinds of stuff. They don't need alewives! When I went to the Lake Huron fishery meet last spring, they even said that steelhead are not having a hard time finding food.
> 
> I think the problem is more the river than the lake. I have not had a very hard time catching steelhead this spring, but I have not been fishing the AuSable. The fishing is not as good as it once was, but it is still pretty good where I fish.



well that's alot of "I Thinks" In that statement:lol:
Talk to the people that manage the resource, Not your cousin who guides.. 

The only fish clipped on the river are adipose clips [ net pen fish ] and that's only 20,000 a season-out of over 150,000 that are planted yearly.
There's No question most fish head east, That's where the resources are... That water is deeper and colder Most of the yr. Not good mussel reproduction.

Be it herring, smelt, bloater chub, shad, emeralds, goby, or each other- The alewife is the type of food source these fish Need in order to sustain a 30" body, You ain't seeing fish like that on nearby streams, Not in any kind of number or regularity 
Yes there is a Lot of bait in the lake, But it takes more calories per meal for a 30" fish than it does a 20" 
Small meals are Small benefits, You need cookies and cream to get Big filthy sick sloppy females the way I like em...
It may never come back to what I remember... Damn One-Two punch mussel thing is the limiting factor


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## ReelEffort2 (Aug 9, 2010)

brookies101 said:


> one thing to keep in mind is that not everyone out there gets on this website or similar sites, which in turn usually means that they do not have the education that we do.


 
Ouch!!!!


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## Cement Pond (Jan 2, 2011)

Ron Matthews said:


> well that's alot of "I Thinks" In that statement:lol:
> Talk to the people that manage the resource, Not your cousin who guides..


The DNR is always in contact with Charter Boat Captains for the stomach content studies that they conduct. The guys that go out and catch fish everyday may know a thing or two about what the fish are targeting food wise plus they provide the DNR with a ton of valuable info.. 



> There's No question most fish head east, That's where the resources are... That water is deeper and colder Most of the yr. Not good mussel reproduction.


Quagga's THRIVE in deep, cold water...:lol:




> The alewife is the type of food source these fish Need in order to sustain a 30" body, You ain't seeing fish like that on nearby streams, Not in any kind of number or regularity .


Than why is Lake Erie producing big steelhead all of a sudden? I head to Erieau several times a summer and ALWAYS check stomach contents. Haven't found an Alewife in one of those fish yet.. Lots of shad/smelt though. Don't know if you have time to pay attention to ice fishing reports but there was a bumper crop of shad this past year in Southern Lake Huron and Erie. They were turning up in a big way in steelhead stomachs last fall as far north as Alpena. Not to mention the huge amount of yoy smelt that were present in the lake last year. Lots of food for an oppurtunistic trout.

Personally, I HOPE the alewives do not make a return for the sake of the budding Atlantic Salmon fishery. It was explained to me by one of those BIOLOGIST that the recent success of the Atlantics can be attributed to the demise of the Alewive. Alewive predation tends to promote a thiamine deficiency in fish. The deficiency complicates reproduction and can be lethal in the Atlantic salmons case. How's that for Cookies and Cream?

Last fall was one of the best falls I've had on the East side in over 10 years. I actually did better numbers/size on those tribs than I did in the Southern Lake Michigan streams. There's nothing wrong with the fishery over there. Lots of big, healthy fish and the numbers were downright amazing. Hell, even the skips were shaped like footballs. Not my idea of fish suffering from starvation or a fishery in distress. 

It's just the river, guys. It sucks. The adult fish wait until the last moment, come in, spawn, and leave. A pattern I'm noticing more and more on rivers that depend solely on returns of hatchery fish. It's no coincidence that the majority of the fish I caught last fall were wild. Wild fish are the most adapted to Lake Huron's ecosystem and have the most drive to return to the tribs in the fall. Wild fish come from fish that made it out on Lake Huron, it's genetics at it's finest! Stockers just don't work like they used to, coupled with the fact that the Au Sable runs Gin Clear makes for some very tough fishing. Its pretty stupid to base the health of Huron on what's happening on the Au Sable.


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## brookies101 (Jun 23, 2008)

ReelEffort2 said:


> Ouch!!!!


 No jabs were meant to be dished out with my previous post. Just saying that some anglers aren't as informed about the issues going on with the river. Not saying that they lack the knowledge or ability to comprehend, maybe they dont have internet, or just started fishing the area recently, and think this is normal. Or maybe even for some, they just don't care. Who knows.... 

Sorry for any confusion

Personally, I don't think it has to do with any one thing. Mussels, forage base, fisherman, the DNR, cormorants, you name it. Its gonna be a long road to recovery, any which way you look at it. And everyone that fishes it needs to be on board


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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

What people are not realizing, is those 20" fish they're roping like crazy are last spring's plant. Look at how many are/were around since fall, tons of them. That means a good percentage survived for a summer, but are now being taken right away. If they are released, that's going to be a big return of adults.

I also don't believe that Lake Huron steelhead are starving. The fish you catch are healthy, it just seems that they're not returning to the river they're supposed to. From what I heard from a couple of my contacts up there though, late fall and most of winter was great fishing. There were lot's of skips around, but plenty of adults. 

The river has changed dramatically in the last 10-12 years. Go look in the coffer and just below the spill, the bottom is just covered in mussels; thanks to ignorant boaters in the ponds. Down off the point, there's places where the stream bed is covered in mussel shells, and the weed growth on that river has skyrocketed. The Au Sable is hurting like probably no other river in the state, and needs all the help it can get.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Cement Pond said:


> Personally, I HOPE the alewives do not make a return for the sake of the budding Atlantic Salmon fishery. It was explained to me by one of those BIOLOGIST that the recent success of the Atlantics can be attributed to the demise of the Alewive. Alewive predation tends to promote a thiamine deficiency in fish. The deficiency complicates reproduction and can be lethal in the Atlantic salmons case. How's that for Cookies and Cream?


Smelt produce the same enzyme. And it effects all species that feed on them including Rainbows, browns, and lakers. In addition they provide very little nutrition, but are high in fat. Junk food for trout/salmon....They can also cause hypoxia(belly burn). And are devastating to the zooplankton that are the base of the food chain.

Alewives and smelt are both particularly nasty invasives.


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## SJC (Sep 3, 2002)

Ron Matthews said:


> well that's alot of "I Thinks" In that statement:lol:
> Talk to the people that manage the resource, Not your cousin who guides..
> 
> The only fish clipped on the river are adipose clips [ net pen fish ] and that's only 20,000 a season-out of over 150,000 that are planted yearly.
> ...


I have been talking to people in fisheries and they have said that steelhead and atlantics appear to doing well in huron. I would say the stomach contents of fish caught by my "cousin who guides" and other boat guys I know are indicators worth considering. 

The canada guys have been catching our fish up their rivers for several years. About the time the AuSable went to hell. I don't know what they clip now, but a few years back most of fish we caught in the AuSable were clipped, easy to I.D.

The fact is you don't know what I have been seeing. We have already caught a dozen fish this year in the ten pound range. Last year our biggest fish was 14. I admit that the ave. size is down slightly, but the fish we catch are fat and healthy. We don't catch any true behemoths any more but we still catch a lot of nice fish. As far as small meals goes, I will explain it like this... A White Castle burger is smaller than a Whopper but if you eat four white castles every day for lunch you will get just as fat as one Whopper. Back when we had alewives, we used to murder the kings out in the boat. They would be full of ales. Whenever we got steelhead they very seldom had alewives in them. They would be full june bugs, fish flies, ants, shiners, chubs and so on, but they were always full kind of like now.

I am not trying to start a fight. I am just sharing my thoughts and observations. Myself and the guys I fish with catch hundreds of steelhead a year. That adds up to a lot of empherical data. I am not a biologist, but I am not an idiot either. What is going on in the AuSable should not be used as a gauge for lake huron. I don't think the cold water fishing in the lake is dead. I just think we need to focus on fish that don't need alewives. I do think that the AuSable has problems that need to be addressed if it is to ever come even close to what it used to be. We all want the same thing and bickering on this forum won't change anything.


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## Ron Matthews (Aug 10, 2006)

Cement Pond said:


> Quagga's THRIVE in deep, cold water...:lol:



although found deep, Not good for reproduction.
Here's a good read about mussels 
http://fl.biology.usgs.gov/Nonindig...ussel_FAQs/Dreissena_FAQs/dreissena_faqs.html


The part that get's me is a hybridization of the two mussels into a more tolerant species:help:


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

SJC said:


> I have been talking to people in fisheries and they have said that steelhead and atlantics appear to doing well in huron. I would say the stomach contents of fish caught by my "cousin who guides" and other boat guys I know are indicators worth considering.
> 
> The canada guys have been catching our fish up their rivers for several years. About the time the AuSable went to hell. I don't know what they clip now, but a few years back most of fish we caught in the AuSable were clipped, easy to I.D.
> 
> ...


Okay, then. Lake Huron is officially as good as it ever was, and we just need to go fishing to catch Steelhead. 

I have fished east side rivers for decades. NONE of them are even halfway decent, compared to just 7 years ago. The Rifle is now coming into its own, because of the declines on the other rivers nearby. It isn't any better than it ever was, but more people hit it than used to, because the other options are so weak, anymore. The Thunder Bay river barely gets Steelhead returns. Same for the Ausable. All of the smaller rivers along the NE part of the State used to get considerable numbers of stray fish from planting - not much anymore.
The runs in Canada are seriously declining, as well. There were a few years when Ausable fish were showing up in a particular Canadian river in very good numbers. Not so much, now. Like Ron mentioned (as he got it from a DNR Biologist), the Steelhead need to be able to prey on different food to reach maturity than the food they consume at a younger age. 

The reason those two year old fish are returning, and are mature, is because they are not getting enough food in the lake. I can appreciate the fact that they look fat and healthy, but they are maturing early because nature wants them to spawn before they die, and somehow they sense that they will not have enough food to live to full sized maturity, and so they mature early to procreate the species. The same way Kings are spawning at 2 and 3 years of age on lakes Huron and Michigan tribs. I am not just guessing about this - it is a fact. 

I am fine waiting to see what happens with lake Huron, but I have mostly switched my Steelhead fishing to the west side, and now I have taken up Walleye fishing @ Erie. That is the fix for MY problem; but it doesn't really help lake Huron much.

Based on my narrow scope of experience the last few years, the "average size" of Steelhead in the Ausable has declined dramatically, not just "slightly." 10 years ago the average size was probably 8#. Now the average size might be 2#. That seems like more than a slight difference. Most of those 17" - 20" fish probably weigh 1# - 1.5#. They sure fight great for puny little Steelhead.


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## SJC (Sep 3, 2002)

I never said that lake huron is as good as ever. It's not even close. All I am saying is that other rivers are doing way better than the AuSable and that what happens in that river alone is not a good indicator of the condition of the cold water fishery here. 

The fishing here is not the old days but it is more than half-decent. If your idea of decent is a put and take fishery where any dummy can fish below a dam and whack 6 to 8# cookie cutters all day than its not. If you can't catch a fair # steelhead over here you are either a piss poor fisherman, you are stuck in the rut of going to old spots that no longer produce, or you have too high of expectations. Several rivers still get a lot of stray hatchery fish and even more of their own naturals.

It does not make sense that a fish that is loaded with fat and is large for it's age, knows that it is really going to starve, so it matures early to quick spawn before it dies. The biologist I talked to said that the stage was set for steelhead an atlantics to do really well in lake huron. He said that these two fish were not having a hard time finding food.

The one to two pound females that I have been catching are immature. You always get a few small males that mature early. The average size may be 1 to 2 pounds in the AuSable when all you are catching is skips, but where I fish it is more like 5-6 pounds with a few 9-10 pounders thrown in. Myself and the people I fish with have caught a ton of steelhead over the last 20 some years and an 8 pound fish has always been a little above average. We have always caught skips, sometimes lots of them. The truly huge fish are not around anymore. The size of the runs are smaller, but the bottom line is there is still good #s of fish in places other than the AuSable that appear to be healthy.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Well, I must need to get out to those other tribs, then. I know most of them, having fished mainly the NE part of our State for the last 35 years. I don't mind working for fish, and I don't really post up right below dams (other than in Alpena, LOL) for Steelhead. The methods that work have worked for a long time, and they work fine for me to catch Skips - so they will catch adult fish. Now my only dilemma will be "do I stay at our nice, free cabin on the east side and try to find decent fishing?," or "do I head west, camp in the back of my truck, and fish rivers that I know get halfway decent runs of decent sized fish?" Or, that famous alternative - "do I stay closer to home, spend less on gas, and whack a pile of Walleyes for the table?" I guess those are some pretty good options, no matter how poor our Steelhead fishing is, lately. For a whiny biatch, I am pretty fortunate. 

Hey, I just checked the temp on the Ausable, below Foote dam. It is just under 39* today, and there is continued warm weather in the forecast. The river should be prime for spawning Steelhead in the next two weeks. The bulk of the spawning adults should be in the river shortly, and the fishing should be great. This will happen at all of the nearby rivers at the same time. 43* is the magic number. Watch for it.


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## ReelEffort2 (Aug 9, 2010)

brookies101 said:


> No jabs were meant to be dished out with my previous post. Just saying that some anglers aren't as informed about the issues going on with the river. Not saying that they lack the knowledge or ability to comprehend, maybe they dont have internet, or just started fishing the area recently, and think this is normal. Or maybe even for some, they just don't care. Who knows....
> 
> Sorry for any confusion
> 
> Personally, I don't think it has to do with any one thing. Mussels, forage base, fisherman, the DNR, cormorants, you name it. Its gonna be a long road to recovery, any which way you look at it. And everyone that fishes it needs to be on board


No offense taken by me,,,,and I tend to agree with what you're saying above.
And unrelated to your comments but to several others' posts, not only in this thread, but others as well: I wish that people would back up their "fact" with a reference to a scientific study, data from the fish biologists' study, a factual article in a news media, or whatever evidence they are referencing their "fact" from so that others could read the material and make their own informed decisions as to what is fact. Too often I see a writer stating a "fact" only to be followed by another post that states a "fact" that are in direct contradiction to the first "fact". Now, the two facts can't both be correct,,,,,,,just my opinion.


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## Angeloboot (Oct 13, 2009)

brookies101 said:


> No jabs were meant to be dished out with my previous post. Just saying that some anglers aren't as informed about the issues going on with the river. Not saying that they lack the knowledge or ability to comprehend, maybe they dont have internet, or just started fishing the area recently, and think this is normal. Or maybe even for some, they just don't care. Who knows....


Just happened across this thread--I'm the kind of guy who travels "Up North" twice a year to fish. Once in spring, once in fall. Wish it was more, but life happens. The above is one of the core issues in advocacy! I took no offense, but it got me thinking. From the perspective of people for whom fishing is a part of vacation, or a weekend trip, or whatever (a whole bunch of people), "normal" is a very, very flexible status. Until I found MS forums searching for help on duck hunting, I had NO IDEA that forums like this even existed, nor had it occurred to me to look. The point is that for a lot of people (Sorry guys, I have zero data on fish licenses sold vs. number of trips made) we're not aware there's even an issue, and by the time it gets filtered down to us semi-weekend warriors, it's usually too late for anything but drastic action. So, Brookies101, while you muse about not having internet or not caring or whatever the case may be, remember that its easy to lose perspective on who even needs to be convinced they should care. The best thing y'all could do is get together, print up a nice flyer that details why people should release fish on a particular stretch of river, back it up with data, and distribute/post at launches, fishing tackle stores, etc. I'd donate the paper and tacks. Trust me when I say that for those of us downstate who travel to fish occasionally, it's not that we don't care, it's that we didn't know there was anything amiss to care about! I joined a non-profit waterfowl conservation group as soon as I learned there was a need for advocacy. Presence in targeted communities is clutch. 

Sorry to hijack a little bit with the above, but I try to come to the defense of fellow folks for whom the outdoors is an occasional thing. For all I know you might actually run a nonprofit that helps preserve the AuSable!


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## Fishslayer5789 (Mar 1, 2007)

SJC said:


> I think there is plenty of food in the lake for steelhead. My cousin is a charter captain and said that all the steelhead that they catch have full stomachs. They are eating bugs, juvenile smelt, shiners and all kinds of stuff. They don't need alewives! When I went to the Lake Huron fishery meet last spring, they even said that steelhead are not having a hard time finding food.


Steelhead are so weird. We caught one out of Frankfort on the boat last May that was stuffed full of bumble bees and June bugs. We caught it right on the scum line, go figure.


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## Fishslayer5789 (Mar 1, 2007)

Angeloboot said:


> Just happened across this thread--I'm the kind of guy who travels "Up North" twice a year to fish. (Sorry guys, I have zero data on fish licenses sold vs. number of trips made) we're not aware there's even an issue, and by the time it gets filtered down to us semi-weekend warriors, it's usually too late for anything but drastic action.


I don't think people like you are the concern. It's the guys that are cleaning house on the fish every week that do the real damage. If anything, you're helping everyone else out by buying a liscense, because you're paying for stocking fish for everyone else. If there weren't all the weekend warriors that there are that buy liscenses to only fish a few times a year, then there wouldn't be anywhere near the stocking funds there are.


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## brookies101 (Jun 23, 2008)

Fishslayer5789 said:


> I don't think people like you are the concern. It's the guys that are cleaning house on the fish every week that do the real damage.


 ...... 

I don't think any type of flyer or sign or anything else of the sort is going to change peoples mind on what they are gonna keep. If they want dinner, they are gonna rope what they want. And if they are only up a time or two a year, then ofcourse, they'll probably keep their catch. I would too

And Angeloboot, I am not going to try and convince anyone that they should care about anything. Its not my place. Since this thread has been started I've thought about this issue alot. And I really only believe things will change when the DNR steps in and pushes for more strict regulations. Like 1 fish per day, or something along those lines. I know it won't happen, but I "muse" that it would go a long way towards helping to fix the problem


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## rwenglish1 (Jan 6, 2007)

brookies101 said:


> ......
> 
> I don't think any type of flyer or sign or anything else of the sort is going to change peoples mind on what they are gonna keep. If they want dinner, they are gonna rope what they want. And if they are only up a time or two a year, then ofcourse, they'll probably keep their catch. I would too
> 
> And Angeloboot, I am not going to try and convince anyone that they should care about anything. Its not my place. Since this thread has been started I've thought about this issue alot. And I really only believe things will change when the DNR steps in and pushes for more strict regulations. Like 1 fish per day, or something along those lines. I know it won't happen, but I "muse" that it would go a long way towards helping to fix the problem


I respectfully disagree, if the old saying is true " 10% of all fisherman, catch 90% of the fish" then the problem lies in that group. Read the post, they list their statistics, they post their photographs and they are also doing it legally. 

There is another group of the 10%ers, and there are already laws on the books to address those problems. If they just put a camera up on the Foote Damn, they would see the same fisherman, doing the same thing day in and day out dragging the fish off the river.

Just because 10 fisherman showed up at the same time for the anual once a year fishing trip to where you are fishing and they all got their limit of fish and went home with them, that is nothing to what the 10% get all season long. More 10% ers take hens, why for the eggs, and yet the 90% can't even catch a male fish. 

With all of that said, the catching and roping of fish using legal or non legal methods is not the problem.


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## ptaustinpete (Dec 11, 2008)

Be a little careful about the time frame when you say the AuSable is "worse than ever for fishing".

Yes. Back in the 1970's the AuSable was the famous place for salmon. It was a zoo of humanity. Everybody fished salmon and when you fished for steelhead, there was just about nobody else around. Also, we never caught many steelhead at that time either. Not too good for steelhead in 1970's.

Now there are not as many salmon fisherman and plenty of steelhead fisherman to divide up a slightly higher number of fish.

Still I'd rather not catch a fish everytime, than sit at work and be unhappy about not being in the river. I love fishing and steelheaders are much more cordial than your average salmon fisherman. Quite pleasent now! Fishing is better in the AuSable for me now.


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## Angeloboot (Oct 13, 2009)

rwenglish1 said:


> I respectfully disagree, if the old saying is true " 10% of all fisherman, catch 90% of the fish" then the problem lies in that group. Read the post, they list their statistics, they post their photographs and they are also doing it legally.
> 
> There is another group of the 10%ers, and there are already laws on the books to address those problems. If they just put a camera up on the Foote Damn, they would see the same fisherman, doing the same thing day in and day out dragging the fish off the river.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I should've made my point a little more carefully: I have NO IDEA what people who live there or fish multiple days a week catch, keep, etc. If a person can catch and release all day long, what is wrong with a 1 fish limit? I'd be amazed if the "it's cheaper to catch" i.e. sustenance argument hasn't been beat to death somewhere on these forums.


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## Btek (Jul 15, 2010)

I used to live in Oscoda and moved to the west side 9 years ago. Every small steelhead we used to catch out of the ausable were skippers. Small mature males. Is it possible that the small steelheads that are being caught now are actually immature? If so that is a quite possibly a really good sign. It may mean that the cormorant control is really paying off big time and in the next few years the adults will show up.

The rivers I live by and fish on the west side get a run of immature steelhead that come up and feed in mostly in the very lower stretches. Both in fall and spring. Just like out east in the lake erie tribs where the immature steelhead come in for snacks and then head back out.

I am out of the loop on the east side but saw this discussion and it really has me wondering if they are immature. THat would be way cool.


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## walleye174 (Apr 15, 2009)

also guys right now there are alot of adult fish in the van creeck seems to be when the fish were released at lynns they opted to go to van eton and rumor has it that the people of van eton are trying toget a fish ladder in there mmmm sounds alittle fishy been fishing this river for nearly 30 years and this is the worst ive seen it sofar. and i also agree the little guys should be released and i willdo my part to get people on board with this also.


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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

> also guys right now there are alot of adult fish in the van creeck seems to be when the fish were released at lynns they opted to go to van eton and rumor has it that the people of van eton are trying toget a fish ladder in there mmmm sounds alittle fishy been fishing this river for nearly 30 years and this is the worst ive seen it sofar. and i also agree the little guys should be released and i willdo my part to get people on board with this also.


I heard VE was a slaughter fest for a couple weeks. That used to be lightly known for chrome, not any more apparently. Oscoda is a place where just about everything gets roped, skippers and all. Thanks for being willing to think of the future and not being so desperate, that you kill every trout you get, like 90% of the people on the river. It does makes sense that the lower plants are homing in on that creek, thankfully they won't bottle up anymore in a few years.


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