# Broken points count for or against APR?



## JimP (Feb 8, 2002)

I had a conversation with a gent who said he had shot a very *large* deer with a pretty large rack with all the traits of what he thought was 8 pts. Upon approach they found parts of the main tips, the brow tines and lower tines broken off on both sides, leaving just large nubs. Effectively it had 2 large tines and two broken remnants on each side. How would a CO consider this situation if it were called in? Several broken off, but evidence that points had been there to meet the minimum 3 pt per side APR...that is the question for this legal forum, I wonder "what if" some broke off after the kill...say dragging it out?
I ask because he got scared when he was told by a relative it was under APR and so he just left the deer. I told him he should have called, not waste the deer.


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## Blaze (Oct 13, 2005)

I agree a call to DNR should have been made. What a waste


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## Bucman (Jun 29, 2016)

Sounds like a violator to me.


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## MossyHorns (Apr 14, 2011)

To be legal, the remaining anter points need to be 1" aove the main beam to count. Antler points will not break off while being dragged to the truck. Now they could be shot off on a follow up shot, but it would have to be pretty obvious to a CO to buy into that story. 

Sounds like the guy you talked to illegally shot a deer. He should have called the DNR and never left the deer to rot. The guy should loose his license for a few years for that reason alone.


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## kracker (Jan 25, 2013)

Misjudging the antler points possibly he would have just gotten the deer confiscated and a warning, maybe. By shooting it and f-ing leaving it he should have the book thrown at him. What an idiot. Not sorry if that offends anyone. Theres Not really an excuse for shooting too small of a buck.....you know, that be sure of target rule. Sure it can be hard to count points on a deer but that doesn't mean shoot it to get a closer look! Then after shooting (to get a closer look) he makes the worst decision of the day by leaving it to rot. For that there would be no forgiveness by the C.O. for anything the so-called hunter did that day. Tickets for undersize, wanton waste and from the sounds of the "hunter's" character, probably a few other violations. Way to make the real hunters look bad.


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

Please don't blame this on aprs, blame it on not knowing what you are shooting at.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

I don't think he would of got a warning, they are very serious and will enforce the Apr law. No excuse to shoot a non legal buck.


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## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

Steve said:


> Please don't blame this on aprs, blame it on not knowing what you are shooting at.


I believe that is the debate. If there was no MAPR that deer would not have been left in the woods. Yes you are correct but many times with a scope or binoculars a 1/2 inch tine looks over an inch long as well, not to mention a trotting or running buck. Not sure if this story of just one deer happens more often than not but there was a thread of many deer found laying in the woods not having sufficient head gear to be legal to shoot, could this same reason be why they were left?


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Hunters Edge said:


> I believe that is the debate. If there was no MAPR that deer would not have been left in the woods. Yes you are correct but many times with a scope or binoculars a 1/2 inch tine looks over an inch long as well, not to mention a trotting or running buck. Not sure if this story of just one deer happens more often than not but there was a thread of many deer found laying in the woods not having sufficient head gear to be legal to shoot, could this same reason be why they were left?


It is not a debate. It's illegal, period. The buck broke his tines and is illegal to shoot. Know your target, period! Cant shoot everything with antlers that you see? Took too long to determine legal points and ended up with no shot? Too bad he lives another day.


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## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

sureshot006 said:


> It is not a debate. It's illegal, period. The buck broke his tines and is illegal to shoot. Know your target, period!


It maybe illegal it still will not bring that buck or any other buck accidentally shot back to life. MAPR is to allow some yearlings to reach an older age, if they still die, is it working? That is the debate? Or the waiste left in it's wake?


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Hunters Edge said:


> It maybe illegal it still will not bring that buck or any other buck accidentally shot back to life. MAPR is to allow some yearlings to reach an older age, if they still die, is it working? That is the debate? Or the waiste left in it's wake?


Yes it works because most people will try to be sure. Rushing the shot is completely irresponsible.


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## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

sureshot006 said:


> Yes it works because most people will try to be sure. Rushing the shot is completely irresponsible.


If it works why did all Western States stop it's practice. Only a few Western States offer a small area but the rest or majority has stopped its practice completely?


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Hunters Edge said:


> If it works why did all Western States stop it's practice. Only a few Western States offer a small area but the rest or majority has stopped its practice completely?


Do they all have cwd?


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Measurable, on the antler points count. If a hunter holds a matching broken off tine or antler there is some evidence it existed pre-shot.

To take it to the opposite extreme , what if we were estimating missing points to qualify a buck? Can we tell a point has been broken and is now missing ,or how many inches were missing before shooting? Perhaps much less likely than seeing qualifying points...

More bucks = more conflicts between bucks. Just part of the deal.
Legal/measurable points in number enough to qualify need to exist , or don't shoot.
The deer deserve to be utilized when/if killed. No fault of theirs if they don't qualify for a regulation regarding antler points.
A busted enough previously qualifying rack gets a free pass.That's all.
Unless broken enough to qualify at antlerless tag level. Or a certain permit's level , watch the buck. Don't shoot it.


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

Know what you are shooting at. If there were no APR's, the story would be that it looked like it had antlers but it turned out to be a doe. 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

sureshot006 said:


> Do they all have cwd?


I do not believe so. This link should answer your question.

http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/deer-hunt/deer-hunting-tips/facts-antler-restrictions-deer-hunting


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## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

Steve said:


> Know what you are shooting at. If there were no APR's, the story would be that it looked like it had antlers but it turned out to be a doe.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


No MAPR does not and has not worked and has had biological impacts. VAPR does work. I believe the reason it works is because it is not forced but is done because of the knowledge one knows or having an educated reason to do so. Also by having different age groups targeted it actually has a benefit biologically and creates a healthier deer herd. It would also eliminate this waiste that has been discussed or posted on this subject now and in past post and past years.


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

Hunters Edge said:


> No MAPR does not and has not worked and has had biological impacts. VAPR does work. I believe the reason it works is because it is not forced but is done because of the knowledge one knows or having an educated reason to do so. Also by having different age groups targeted it actually has a benefit biologically and creates a healthier deer herd. It would also eliminate this waiste that has been discussed or posted on this subject now and in past post and past years.


You changed the topic. If there was no Apr, the problem would be that someone shot a buck that they thought had 3 inch spikes but it didn't. The root problem is someone not knowing what they are shooting. 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Hunters Edge said:


> No MAPR does not and has not worked and has had biological impacts. VAPR does work. I believe the reason it works is because it is not forced but is done because of the knowledge one knows or having an educated reason to do so. Also by having different age groups targeted it actually has a benefit biologically and creates a healthier deer herd. It would also eliminate this waiste that has been discussed or posted on this subject now and in past post and past years.


Mapr absolutely works. Your article even stated it pushed more bucks to 2.5. That's a success in itself. The fact that guys cant count is irrelevant.


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## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

It is because of MAPR that the hunter left it and walked away.

Yes agree the root problem is someone not knowing what they are shooting. The problem is if they are shooting, cows, horses, and other hunters how can you possibly think they are going to adhere to MAPR?


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