# Another skill I'd like to learn - help needed



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

Long-winded post skill, engage. 

As many of you have observed, I've put in a lot of time since 2019 learning how to deer hunt, squirrel hunt, ice fish, walleye troll, kayak fish, etc. One of the things that I would like to learn is waterfowl hunting. 

Whenever I watch videos of duck and goose hunters, it goes like this: they already have access to their farmland or a buddy's, they have dogs to retrieve, a team of dudes, and a crap load of decoys. On the other hand, I have public land access, a small jon boat or kayak, no hunting buddies, no dog, and only one decoy that I found on a hauling job. 

I'm too damn cheap to spend for 50+ dekes. Those things are outrageously expensive. So, what are my options? What are my realistic options to bring down some birds during my already jam packed work, dad, and play schedule without dropping another huge chunk of change on another activity with which I am only tertiarily experienced? 

I've said this before in a half joking fashion, but I'd really like to connect with somebody on here that hunts and knows how to hunt Point Mouille and could show me the ropes once or twice. 

Those that read my posts likely know that my shotgun is a Kel-Tec KSG and I do love and have faith in her, but I am willing to pick up a traditional over/under or something to that effect - I just need to know that I'll use it and have a chance at some success before buying another long gun. 

What can you guys tell me - things that aren't obvious or common sense? I know that birds have great eyesight but no smeller to speak of. I know that dawn is the best time, generally speaking, just like most hunting and fishing. I'm good at sitting silently for long periods of time. 

Spread some knowledge this way and if anybody is willing to take a fast learner out to some good waterfowling setups, send me a PM.

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## DM90 (Jan 7, 2014)

You can easily get the job done with a dozen cheap or used decoys for under $50. If you are just looking to get started without spending a lot of money this would be my recommendation. I also would recommend staying away from the mass amounts of pressure on a managed area like P.M. until you have had a chance to learn the ropes without the headache of dealing with impatient people claiming you are in "their spot". I think your best bet is to check out some small wooded potholes and ponds back in public land for wood ducks and mallards. In my experience most duck hunters stick to the big marshes and river areas on public land, but a lot of birds know that and head to these spots once the shooting starts. Think of spots in areas you would have to walk a ways into and would maybe only run into someone bowhunting. I have had a lot of success doing this over the years....yes, you will not have the large numbers of ducks you will see in other places, but most days I come home with 2-4 birds and no headache of other hunters. This is also a decent way to hunt because you can do it with decoys or just move from spot to spot and ambush/ jump shoot them and you can pretty much do it all day long. Hope this helps.


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## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

DM90 said:


> You can easily get the job done with a dozen cheap or used decoys for under $50. If you are just looking to get started without spending a lot of money this would be my recommendation. I also would recommend staying away from the mass amounts of pressure on a managed area like P.M. until you have had a chance to learn the ropes without the headache of dealing with impatient people claiming you are in "their spot". I think your best bet is to check out some small wooded potholes and ponds back in public land for wood ducks and mallards. In my experience most duck hunters stick to the big marshes and river areas on public land, but a lot of birds know that and head to these spots once the shooting starts. Think of spots in areas you would have to walk a ways into and would maybe only run into someone bowhunting. I have had a lot of success doing this over the years....yes, you will not have the large numbers of ducks you will see in other places, but most days I come home with 2-4 birds and no headache of other hunters. This is also a decent way to hunt because you can do it with decoys or just move from spot to spot and ambush/ jump shoot them and you can pretty much do it all day long. Hope this helps.


Thanks. Lots of good advice there. I have 2 spots in mind from my bow hunting hiking that I was planning to check out. 

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## Shupac (Apr 17, 2005)

Yeah, plenty of public land near you with ducks to be shot. Almost hate to say it since I hunt that public land too, but there really is no need to drive to PM, especially with the marshes mostly too deep to hunt. Your shotgun is fine. I wouldn't recommend a traditional O/U (one with wood, not synthetic stock) unless you're never going to leave the boat and wade. 

For walk-in hunts on ponds in the woods I often take half a dozen decoy or less. Sometimes I may load my kayak with 20+ but that's rare. Forget the videos, spend some time reading here and scouting your local grounds. 

One bit of advice I will give is make sure the bottom of any waterbody you walk on is solid. Take a test step very near shore, and if possible wade out holding on to your kayak. A lot of ponds and marshes around where you could sink to your neck in mud if you're not careful.


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

Hook up with an experienced waterfowler, best way to learn. I don't hunt ducks much these days outside of Nayanquing Point. I use less than a dozen decoys when I do go, 7 deeks and 1 wind spinner is all I hunt over.


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## DM90 (Jan 7, 2014)

Macs13 said:


> Thanks. Lots of good advice there. I have 2 spots in mind from my bow hunting hiking that I was planning to check out.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Great idea. In those small out of the way spots it is best to put out only a decoy or two (or no decoys at all) and keep the calling to a minimum. The birds will be heading to those spots for safety and arent use to large numbers of ducks or noise coming from them so they will know something is up if all of the sudden there are a lot of decoys and calling.


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## DM90 (Jan 7, 2014)

Shupac said:


> One bit of advice I will give is make sure the bottom of any waterbody you walk on is solid. Take a test step very near shore, and if possible wade out holding on to your kayak. A lot of ponds and marshes around where you could sink to your neck in mud if you're not careful.


I strongly agree! I would suggest a wading belt as well, and use a walking stick or push pole as you walk out to test it before your next step. That's really the only thing to worry about when hunting the smaller spots lol, I'm always jealous watching duck hunting videos in other states when the water is only knee deep and the bottom seems solid and not false like we have here.


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

As already stated, you don't need more than a dozen decoys. 

A 2-3/4" 12ga is plenty. Use #4 steel early in the season or for close shooting, #2 later or for longer shots. Your most difficult task is going to be locating ammunition right now.

Good point on checking the bottom of the lakes you choose. Some have sheer drop offs, others are swamp pits. Nothing worse than tossing out a bunch of decoys in the dark then realizing after shooting light that several floated away because the weights landed on the wrong side of the drop off. 

Years ago I blasted a couple teal on an unfamiliar pond. Looked like a solid bottom. Took 1 step in and tipped over. Had to throw my 870 back behind me and grab grass and twigs to pull myself back out. The bottom was some kind of weeds covered with rusty silt. Looked like sand. Grabbed a stick longer that I was tall and pushed it all the way down until the water was between my wrist and elbow. Luckiny I had a fishing rod in my truck and was able to retrieve the ducks with that.


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## BumpRacerX (Dec 31, 2009)

Strictly public land hunter here that after 4-5 years is still learning. 

Half dozen to a dozen decoys is all you need to start. Smaller pothole you can even get away with 2 or 3 total. Scout scout scout. Be where the birds want to be. If it's easy to get to, there will be a million people there on opening morning. I wouldn't skip opening morning, but the sport is a lot more fun the second to third week when a lot of guys give up or move to deer hunting. Calling is great but not necessary. But if you're sitting in a corn strip at a managed area with a true expert caller next to you...it's tough to compete. There's a lot of people that "think" they can call, whom might be better off just leaving the calls alone.

You already have all the gear you need outside of the decoys which can easily be found used on Facebook Marketplace. I'm 200 miles away from you, or I'd hook you up with a half dozen new cheapy flambeau's that have never hit the water.


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

Public land opening day, plan to arrive at your spot about 5pm on Friday and spend the night there. Don't be the guy that shows up an hour before shooting time, finds someone else where you hoped to set up (and the next 3 best spots) then blows every duck out of the marsh with a 1M cp spot light trying to find a back up location.

A LOT of guys over call. Especially early in the season. Get a call and practice with it while driving. An oldie but goodie that I still use is made by OLT. Not sure if that company is still in business. It is very easy to use and be proficient with. Other calls require more advanced skill to make sound right.


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## aacosta (Dec 18, 2015)

Like previously stated, a dozen or less works. Not very experienced here. Used to hunt more but get in the deer mood then duck then fishing.... If you scout and be where the ducks want to be, that is the key. I've killed plenty with my limited time and experience. Also study up on duck ID, they can be hard to tell in flight.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Come hunt Muskegon with us. Bring a notebook and I can tell you a little bit about PM. Not an expert by any means but we kill birds...


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Macs13 said:


> Long-winded post skill, engage.
> 
> As many of you have observed, I've put in a lot of time since 2019 learning how to deer hunt, squirrel hunt, ice fish, walleye troll, kayak fish, etc. One of the things that I would like to learn is waterfowl hunting.
> 
> ...


You are too busy.
And if you get turned on to how to hunt waterfowl successfully , it will ruin your life...Or your former life anyways.

My goose decoys cost a dollar a piece. If you're cheaper than that , never mention hunting waterfowl again. Don't even read about it. Plug your ears if you hear a quack or honk.

My first goose came over two decoys. Now being the inexperienced genius I am , those two were placed with the utmost strategy , of course.
One (feeder position) was sniffing a beer can from a recent party.

I don't /(didn't as I nearly caught serious waterfowling fever and try to avoid such hunting) wade. Or swim. Or hunt from a boat. No ,zero interest in hunting in a circus environment.
If you can tag along , great. It may shorten your learning curve. 
I would recommend you plan on hunting solo next year. (But you are you and will do so before next year..)
Focus this year on small out of the way places waterfowl use . Dry and wet. And know that you can do as well on dryland as water IF you are on the birds.

Timing matters. It matters with local birds. It matters with migrating flocks/birds. It matters in feeding. And changes to feed. And it matters by a given area by hunting pressure.
One hayfield I used to drive by in and out of a spot I hunted geese was about ready to cut.
In the mid day geese could be seen with thier heads showing. A place to go hunters did not.
Where did they go when they left? How long would that pattern/routine last? Morning? Evening? 

I did hunt near some small ponds. Kept a home made (cheap) grappling hook and rope in the truck just in case. But did not drop any birds in the water. Was not set up to do so.

Off all the things involved that are specific to hunting waterfowl ....Non lead shot was the biggest thing I had to adjust to.
My opinion , ( And I'm opinionated! Probably caught it from hunting waterfowl) is that steelshot is like throwing whiffle balls.
If I don't have shot at a bird with a softball thrown by hand , it's out of range. For me , for sure.
I know others have worked out the kinks and found better loads and shotguns...By my limits are my own.
Due to a lack of desire and lack of mobility and no retriever(s) I want dead birds dropping close. 

Calls can get pricey. What you want is a call birds respond positively to. "Oh look , they're swinging way!" can have multiple reasons. It is seldom the cost of your call.
I went midrange on one. Then found one cheaper I went crazy and splurged on just to have a change up(I don't want to say cheap and sully my cheap image further)from a long known maker that was not a popular model. 
Sounded kinda strange to my ear compared to others. (And do have some discretion practicing your calling when driving on the road.. Lest folks think you odd (er). But wow , it worked great!
But , the original first call likely would have continued to work on birds in the right mood when I was set up right and not being noticed.

Speaking of noticed.
A friend and I used to hide in our wheelchairs under an elevated hunting blind. Crazy fun hunting. Getting camouflaged was more challenging , but doable.
Geese cared sometimes. But when they didn't and came in to land(nearly on us once, we claimed they were between us and the ends of our barrels that time as we fired in self defense) it was a riot.

Find some places this year where hunters don't bother birds. That can be a tough assignment. But such places exist. 
One site might be a small grain field used during a brief window of time. Another might be a small pond or creek on the back of a property. Most will be out of sight of roads due to others scouting noting birds within sight of roads and they'll be looking to hunt a pattern too. Find the right timing when birds are using a site...And you're halfway there.
Those birds are coming from somewhere too. Doesn't hurt to know when and where.

I'll keep my "sweet spot" a secret still , though it has changed owners and I haven't asked permission. (I'm trying to avoid catching waterfowl fever again....)


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## Divers Down (Mar 31, 2008)

Ducks are easy...its other hunters that are tough to deal with.


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

Duck hunting use to be mt favorite hunting. I hunted the small ponds on state land in Allegan County. What I found is do not hunt each pond more than a couple of times for short period of times. Folow all of the other advice on here and you should be good


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## 6thMichCav (Nov 8, 2007)

I don’t know a thing about bird hunting, but I did a lot of clay shooting for a while. If you want help on the shooting end, take six boxes of target loads and about $50 cash (for lines fees) to a local shooting club that is open to the public. Ask who is there who is a good shot and a good teacher. Talk to them about the shots you expect to take, and see if they will coach you through a couple of rounds of trap and skeet, with about 30 minutes between lines to cool down. This will give you some target experience, see if your gun points where you’re looking, and give you an idea of the right sight picture when you connect.

Finding birds, etc: up to you.


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## Fishfighter (Dec 20, 2009)

BumpRacerX said:


> Strictly public land hunter here that after 4-5 years is still learning.
> 
> Half dozen to a dozen decoys is all you need to start. Smaller pothole you can even get away with 2 or 3 total. Scout scout scout. Be where the birds want to be. If it's easy to get to, there will be a million people there on opening morning. I wouldn't skip opening morning, but the sport is a lot more fun the second to third week when a lot of guys give up or move to deer hunting. Calling is great but not necessary. But if you're sitting in a corn strip at a managed area with a true expert caller next to you...it's tough to compete. There's a lot of people that "think" they can call, whom might be better off just leaving the calls alone.
> 
> You already have all the gear you need outside of the decoys which can easily be found used on Facebook Marketplace. I'm 200 miles away from you, or I'd hook you up with a half dozen new cheapy flambeau's that have never hit the water.


If you dont hook macs up I'll take the other half dozen. He should be going through your area if he fishes the betsie this year. I'll add in know when to put your calls down. I can get a positive response out of birds but some days it's just better to shut up my go to is 1 or 2 content quacks as the birds are swinging behind me. Also dont be stubborn if you have a good spread and a good hide and the birds are ignoring you and landing somwhere else go where the birds want to be.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

dozen floaters. a jet sled. state game areas are made for hunters like you. go.


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## jscheel (Sep 3, 2008)

Lots of great advice here. The only thing I didn't see mentioned was being able to plug your gun so that it will only hold 3 shells. I like Kel-Tec guns but am not familiar with that model. If you are ever checked by a CO they will certainly check to make sure that your gun is "plugged" and that you have non-toxic ammo.


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## birdshooter (Jan 7, 2006)

One of my favorite calls is a cheap dog whistle, you can make it sound like a wood duck or a drake mallard . Also study shooting times and take a picture of it so you have references. Don’t limit yourself to just state land , knock on doors you will be shocked how many people grant access ,


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## CDN1 (May 27, 2018)

Duck hunting can be as rustic as walking to a small pond with 3-4 decoys or as complex as boating to a fancy blind with a hundred or more decoys. You can make it what you want it to be. I always liked small secluded marsh’s or ponds that were fed by a creek or small river. Drop my gear into a small boat, canoe or kayak and float to where all the ducks were landing 
Build a small makeshift blind and shoot right out of the boat or canoe. 
even a few field goose decoys and station along a fence row in a field where the birds are landing can be fun. Make it what you want it to be.


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## wpmisport (Feb 9, 2010)

Don't point and shoot at flying duck, swing the gun with them and shoot after you pass the duck a bit.


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## birdshooter (Jan 7, 2006)

wpmisport said:


> Don't point and shoot at flying duck, swing the gun with them and shoot after you pass the duck a bit.


And to add to this don’t flock shoot , you will hit nothing . Sure some times you might get lucky but more times then not you will get nothing . Pick one out and stick with it .


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## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

jscheel said:


> Lots of great advice here. The only thing I didn't see mentioned was being able to plug your gun so that it will only hold 3 shells. I like Kel-Tec guns but am not familiar with that model. If you are ever checked by a CO they will certainly check to make sure that your gun is "plugged" and that you have non-toxic ammo.


I did that 2 years ago and haven't unplugged it. 2 dowels cut to the right length. One tube is plugged and the other allows 2 shells plus one chambered. Thanks for the advice, though. A guy could get into a lot of trouble if he didn't know this one. 

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## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

jscheel said:


> Lots of great advice here. The only thing I didn't see mentioned was being able to plug your gun so that it will only hold 3 shells. I like Kel-Tec guns but am not familiar with that model. If you are ever checked by a CO they will certainly check to make sure that your gun is "plugged" and that you have non-toxic ammo.


This is my Kel-Tec KSG. The scope isn't on there anymore. I don't even have the red dot on it. It does have the aftermarket choke adapter and bayonet spikes, though. 

It's a bullpup that, when I don't have tubes blocked for waterfowling, holds 12 3" shells and is a very accurate gun (check out YouTube to see guys target shooting out to 100 yards).









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## MIfishslayer91 (Dec 24, 2013)

Macs13 said:


> This is my Kel-Tec KSG. The scope isn't on there anymore. I don't even have the red dot on it. It does have the aftermarket choke adapter and bayonet spikes, though.
> 
> It's a bullpup that, when I don't have tubes blocked for waterfowling, holds 12 3" shells and is a very accurate gun (check out YouTube to see guys target shooting out to 100 yards).
> View attachment 785901
> ...


That bayonet might come in handy while chasing down crippled honkers


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## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

MIfishslayer91 said:


> That bayonet might come in handy while chasing down crippled honkers


Hold it steady! 

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## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

I case you do not know, you can only have one box of shells while water fowling, 25 shells.


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## MIfishslayer91 (Dec 24, 2013)

Chessieman said:


> I case you do not know, you can only have one box of shells while water fowling, 25 shells.


I thought that was just for the managed areas?


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## birdshooter (Jan 7, 2006)

Macs13 said:


> I did that 2 years ago and haven't unplugged it. 2 dowels cut to the right length. One tube is plugged and the other allows 2 shells plus one chambered. Thanks for the advice, though. A guy could get into a lot of trouble if he didn't know this one.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Plug has to be solid and 1 piece


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## Urriah (Jul 26, 2013)

MIfishslayer91 said:


> I thought that was just for the managed areas?


Correct.


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## FISHCATCHER1 (Nov 18, 2010)

I’d shoot a couple rounds of sporting clays if you haven’t yet before heading out waterfowling. I could be way off but I wouldn’t be confident with a gun more set up toward self defense trying to swing on birds and be successful especially if you’re not investing in calls and decoys. I bet you would be spot on for some good old water swats though.

Good luck out there! Waterfowling is special. You will love it.


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## eye-sore (Jan 7, 2012)

Its gonna be tough to kill birds with that setup. A 75$ single shot would put you in a better position to be successful without breaking the bank. I know you've heard this before but it really is the truth.


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## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

birdshooter said:


> Plug has to be solid and 1 piece


It would be hard for a wooden dowel to not be solid and one piece. Lol. 

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## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

eye-sore said:


> Its gonna be tough to kill birds with that setup. A 75$ single shot would put you in a better position to be successful without breaking the bank. I know you've heard this before but it really is the truth.


And every time I hear that, I ask why. Then I implore whomever I'm debating to research the KSG before assuming. It isn't a sawed off shotgun. The barrel is longer than you might think. I modified it to accept Remington chokes. It's really easy to swing. 

On the other hand, every time that I suggest that I should buy a gun just for waterfowling, the other guys show up and tell me that my gun will do just fine. 

It's a 12ga pump. That's what it boils down to, IMO. 

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## birdshooter (Jan 7, 2006)

Macs13 said:


> It would be hard for a wooden dowel to not be solid and one piece. Lol.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Guess I don’t understand the 2 dowels cut to length then. Also what’s the length of the barrel ?


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## FISHCATCHER1 (Nov 18, 2010)

I wasn’t referring as much to barrel length as I am to swing and sight plane. 18.5” barrel will work sure but it looks as if your shotgun is set up for optics whereas guns typically used for wing shooting usually have a rib and beads to be able to ensure you have the gun mounted correctly and “point” at the target as opposed to sights and aiming at the target. If you’re confident you can make it work more power to you.

I wish you the best and hope you kill a few.


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## eye-sore (Jan 7, 2012)

To each their own but being a beginner to waterfowl is challenging enough just trying to help you get the most out of your time. I would highly recommend patterning your gun with whatever choke and load you plan to use.hope it works out for ya. Hitting and killing a duck are 2 different things just something to think about


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## BlueMink (Jan 19, 2019)

I say you take that KSG out a couple times and make sure this is something that actually wets your whistle before you go spend big money on a bird gun. I started out with a pump hand me down shotgun, dekes older than myself and whatever the cheapest steel loads money could buy. If you reckon you enjoy the hobby then you can decide if you wanna spend the money on it and what departments. I hunt with a few different guys, some go all out and some just hop in my boat and pitch me gas money lol.


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## Fishfighter (Dec 20, 2009)

birdshooter said:


> Guess I don’t understand the 2 dowels cut to length then. Also what’s the length of the barrel ?


That gun has 2 ammo tubes.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

So , do we all have to be nice to Bill now?

Just kidding.

Good on you Bill.
Mac'll be thoroughly corrupted and wet and muddy and swearing at departing waterfowl before you know it.....


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