# Michigan DNR buys Troltz Farm



## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

craigrh13 said:


> ...You start hunting those lakes and you will screw the whole area.


Apparently some people ARE hunting them...see Blacklab77's previous post.



craigrh13 said:


> ...Noooooow if they open the fields to some managed hunting that is a different story. ...


So let me get this straight...you want the fields open to hunting, but not the water. So you'd rather leave the lakes as a refuge? What you've described is what most of the state managed waterfowl areas have...refuges strategically located, and hunting allowed around the perimeters. So I'm missing how you think this will be a bad thing?



craigrh13 said:


> ...Dont let it be a free for all though...


Managed areas are not "free for all's". That's the point. If the DNR just turns it into a regular state game area open to hunting, *now* you have the potential for the so-called free for all.  If I were you, and I hunted the area, I would be contacting the DNR and watching for opportunities to share your views with them.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Nobody is hunting the lakes. I dont care what anybody says they are not hunting them. I know they shoot some huge bucks off the property, but the lakes are untouched. I would prefer to have no hunting anywhere on the area. 

Have you ever seen the area? Been there at all? It is not like any of the bingo areas. I have memories from when i was very young my ol man taking me down there to watch the ducks/geese out there on the lakes. I am not a bird watcher by any means at all, but that place is different. Hunting it would completely change the way the waterfowl use the area.


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## griffondog (Dec 27, 2005)

Sounds like a perfect area for the new Pheasant Restoration Initiative.

Griff


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

craigrh13 said:


> Nobody is hunting the lakes. I dont care what anybody says they are not hunting them. I know they shoot some huge bucks off the property, but the lakes are untouched. I would prefer to have no hunting anywhere on the area.
> 
> Have you ever seen the area? Been there at all? It is not like any of the bingo areas. I have memories from when i was very young my ol man taking me down there to watch the ducks/geese out there on the lakes. I am not a bird watcher by any means at all, but that place is different. Hunting it would completely change the way the waterfowl use the area.


Nope haven't been there. Been around that area a lot though. So I don't have a dog in this fight. However if you feel as strongly as you do about there being no hunting anywhere on the property, then again I would advise you to get in contact with the DNR. I'm guessing there are a whole lot of other people who would like to hunt it.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

I am no expert by any means, I am simply going by my opinion and many of my friends and family that I have talked about it with. If this is so I will voice my opinion. I do not think people are putting a whole lot of thought into this though. The reason those lakes and fields constantly hold so many birds is because they are not shot at. They are not hunted. Does anyone honestly think that if you open the lakes to hunting the birds will continue to stage there?? All it will do is push the birds to surrounding areas. I can see people who currently hunt the surrounding areas liking that, but the days of going down there and sitting in our truck and watching the thousands of birds trade back and forth between the lakes and fields will be gone.....in my opinion. That is all I am saying.


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## GDLUCK (Dec 2, 2002)

just ducky said:


> So it's about more than just you, or I, or the next guy. It's about the future.


A man that gets it! Applies to so many things and all are better for it. Such a simple thing yet so few ever get.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

GDLUCK said:


> A man that gets it! Applies to so many things and all are better for it. Such a simple thing yet so few ever get.


See, I believe my opinion on nut hunting the area is unselfish. Why ruin a great place just so a few hunters can go in there and completely change the place and how the waterfowl have used it for a few birds? If I wanted to hunt it that in my opinion would be selfish of me.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

The article that was linked early in this thread (Ann Arbor News) quotes a DNR staffperson from the Parks and Recreation Division. I'd assume he knows the most about it, and would have some ideas about the future. That's who I would contact. If the Parks and Rec Division is planning to operate it, it probably will be more of a multi-use recreation area like some of those around SE Michigan now. State Game areas would be Wildlife Division.


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## aphess223 (Aug 1, 2001)

just ducky said:


> The article that was linked early in this thread (Ann Arbor News) quotes a DNR staffperson from the Parks and Recreation Division. I'd assume he knows the most about it, and would have some ideas about the future. That's who I would contact. If the Parks and Rec Division is planning to operate it, it probably will be more of a multi-use recreation area like some of those around SE Michigan now. State Game areas would be Wildlife Division.


Something like Sleepy Hollow State Park if the Parks and Recreation Division has it I would guess?


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## TNL (Jan 6, 2005)

Wow. Interesting reaction. I'd love it if the DNR would invest 5 million in our area. Seems there no pleasing people.


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## moreychuck (Aug 19, 2006)

craigrh13 said:


> Nobody is hunting the lakes. I dont care what anybody says they are not hunting them. I know they shoot some huge bucks off the property, but the lakes are untouched. I would prefer to have no hunting anywhere on the area.
> 
> Have you ever seen the area? Been there at all? It is not like any of the bingo areas. I have memories from when i was very young my ol man taking me down there to watch the ducks/geese out there on the lakes. I am not a bird watcher by any means at all, but that place is different. Hunting it would completely change the way the waterfowl use the area.


 if you feel that strong about it go buy the place it would be better for everyone if the state buys the place the a developer turning it into subdivisions


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## AR34 (Jun 18, 2008)

Been there a few times and I think if the imediate area was hunted the migration would not use it for long. The worst thing that could happen is a private person buy it and hunt the crap out of it. The area around it gets hunted but thoes ponds are their safe haven. It is a grand sight to see the amount of birds that come there. Worth the trip to see for sure.

If the state has to offer hunting. Manage it for youth only. Maybe one day a week??


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## Duck-Hunter (Mar 31, 2005)

I hope they don't let any hunting on the property. If it ain't broke don't fix it. We need more rest areas to keep the birds around. We have a bunch of stop down the SE shore but nothing inland. I've never made it over to check the place out but I've heard a lot about it. Letting every joe blow with a shotgun in there would ruin a good thing. But that's just my .02 we will see what the DNR has planned.


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## 1ludman (Jun 26, 2012)

I say good idea to have it as a refuge fatten the birds up so when they fly south they will be nice and plump for them down south to shoot.


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

The majority of the population of this state lives in the southern third. The DNR is well aware that the lack of access is a limiting factor in recruiting and retaining new hunters.

I have seen the property and watched the ducks and geese fly into those lakes. It is indeed beautiful.

This is a premier property. I am glad that it is being acquired for the people of the state of Michigan. I do hope that it is opened for hunting and other forms of recreation. I do hope that it is managed well. I will wait and see and I am very excited for the people of this state.


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## Tarponman (Nov 20, 2007)

I used to hunt some fields near the lake years ago (not trolz property) and we still to this day drive by the lake in the fall to admire all the birds. It is a mini North Dakota at times. Amazing spot that folks who like to hunt birds should make a point of seeing. At one point years ago the DNR made Glynn Trolz put shot cannons near the lake to scare away the birds because the bacteria level became so toxic. Most of the geese didn't care and still came in. When he was alive he'd have his guys dump huge piles of corn down the middle of his fields for the birds to eat.
It would be a shame for the DNR to allow hunting on the lake in my opinion. Waterfowl need a safe house and the whole area's waterfowl hunters have benefited from the lake. Is it better if the DNR buys it rather than a developer? Sure it is. But public hunting on the lake will ruin it for birds. The public may benefit from some wonderful opportunities for deer hunting on the farms though but that would end up like most st land after a while. 

Nothing is forever as they say. I personally would be disappointed if the lake would cease being a refuge even though I no longer hunt the birds using it. I feel for the guys that have fields and ponds near the lake and have enjoyed it for so long.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

John Singer said:


> The majority of the population of this state lives in the southern third. The DNR is well aware that the lack of access is a limiting factor in recruiting and retaining new hunters.
> 
> I have seen the property and watched the ducks and geese fly into those lakes. It is indeed beautiful.
> 
> This is a premier property. I am glad that it is being acquired for the people of the state of Michigan. I do hope that it is opened for hunting and other forms of recreation. I do hope that it is managed well. I will wait and see and I am very excited for the people of this state.



I just simply do not see how they can open the lakes to hunting and have it not get ruined. It is not like it is that big. I dont see them leaving one lake the refuge ( I am assuming it would be the east lake) and making the other huntable as I cannot see that being overly productive due to the proximity of the lakes...like 20 feet apart if that. Maybe the surrounding fields would be productive at first. I dont really think so though, but hell, what do i know.

I agree that more land available to us is always a good thing. I just hope that if this is true, they are smart about. We dont need a bunch of trailer trash fools down there ruining it and sky busting at anything and everyrthing under a 100 yards.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

:SHOCKED: Way to condemn all of your fellow waterfowlers as a bunch of idiots. :help:

you said this in a previous post...



craigrh13 said:


> Oh Lord. I would hate to see that place turn into a srsga, fish point, or Harsens Island. Screw that. You start hunting those lakes and you will screw the whole area. The lakes hold the birds. Noooooow if they open the fields to some managed hunting that is a different story. Dont let it be a free for all though. I still am perfectly fine with it being left alone and not screwed with.


Then to stick your foot further in your mouth, you said this...



craigrh13 said:


> ...We dont need a bunch of trailer trash fools down there ruining it and sky busting at anything and everyrthing under a 100 yards.


You obviously don't know much about managed areas, and who regularly hunts them. Yes, there are bad apples, just like on every other marsh or lake in the state. But as a whole, managed areas provide excellent hunting and outstanding opportunities for quite a population of hunters in this state. 

I just cannot understand why people continue to see this as a bad thing. Sure, if you previously had exclusive rights to hunt there, then sure you'd be pissed. To have another public area created is a fantastic thing. Could be going the other way...the state could be shutting down/selling property.


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## moreychuck (Aug 19, 2006)

just ducky said:


> :SHOCKED: Way to condemn all of your fellow waterfowlers as a bunch of idiots. :help:.
> 
> You obviously don't know much about managed areas, and who regularly hunts them. Yes, there are bad apples, just like on every other marsh or lake in the state. But as a whole, managed areas provide excellent hunting and outstanding opportunities for quite a population of hunters in this state.
> 
> ...


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

just ducky said:


> :SHOCKED: Way to condemn all of your fellow waterfowlers as a bunch of idiots. :help:
> 
> you said this in a previous post...
> 
> ...


Perhaps you would understand if you had any idea about the place. You would understand how it would completely ruin the lakes IF THEY ALLOW HUNTING ON THEM. In regards to the state land comment...sorry most of my experiences have been negative on public lands. Lots of weekend warriors and people who really show no regard for hunting ethics. I understand that common is controversial, buuuuut it is my view.


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## moreychuck (Aug 19, 2006)

craigrh13 said:


> Perhaps you would understand if you had any idea about the place. You would understand how it would completely ruin the lakes IF THEY ALLOW HUNTING ON THEM. In regards to the state land comment...sorry most of my experiences have been negative on public lands. Lots of weekend warriors and people who really show no regard for hunting ethics. I understand that common is controversial, buuuuut it is my view.


 your view sounds like only the King should hunt to me and say what you want the DNR does a good job managing OUR resources


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## birdshooter (Jan 7, 2006)

The state has not bought the place and wont until they get the 12million its been reduced to from 20 somthing million that jr was asking people need to get their facts straight and not rely on a august of 2012 article written by the media
that thinks we should not have guns (this is what we need to worry more about)


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

craigrh13 said:


> Perhaps you would understand if you had any idea about the place. You would understand how it would completely ruin the lakes IF THEY ALLOW HUNTING ON THEM. In regards to the state land comment...sorry most of my experiences have been negative on public lands. Lots of weekend warriors and people who really show no regard for hunting ethics. I understand that common is controversial, buuuuut it is my view.


I understand that you, and apparently several others by the posts here, love this place and feel it is special. Well I'm sure a lot of people have similar places around the state. And there are a heck of a lot of fantastic spots on public land too. But what I really don't understand is why you're so certain that allowing hunting will ruin it? Think about all of the fantastic properties the state has purchased over the years, including those specifically for waterfowl, such as Pt. Mouillee, Harsens Island, Fish Point or Shiawassee. Those at one time were privately owned as well, and still could be today. But someone in state government way back when had the foresight to see how valuable they were, and figured out a way to purchase them. And there is some fantastic hunting on these areas. So here we have a piece of property that the owner wants to sell. Obviously you, or some others, haven't got the resources to purchase this property yourself. So someone in the state has the foresight to figure out how to purchase this so that the public has access to it, including YOU! What's your alernative? Some developer buys it, subdivides it, and now it's off-limits to all of us!!! :yikes: You won't be able to set foot on the property then! 

Again, your generalization that other waterfowlers are all trailer trash or skybusters is misguided to say the least. I've hunted all over Michigan since the late 60's, from the vast corners of the UP, to the far southern counties, and a good share of it was done on public property. I'm here to tell you there is a ton of opportunity to hunt on public property in this state. All you have to do is go to a neighboring state like Indiana or Illiniois and you'll get that really fast. Sure, there are some idiots around, but tell me where aren't there idiots, whether it's hunting someplace, driving down the road, going to the grocery store, or wherever...that's life. 

C'mon man, have some faith in our DNR. They've done very well with other purchases over the years like I mentioned above. There's no reason to believe this will be any different.


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## Zorba (Jan 24, 2007)

I am so glad I live in the UP.


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## stackemup (Oct 31, 2011)

Zorba said:


> I am so glad I live in the UP.


:lol::lol::lol:: 

Well played sir, well played indeed


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## Kingcrapp (Jan 6, 2009)

Duck-Hunter said:


> I hope they don't let any hunting on the property. If it ain't broke don't fix it. We need more rest areas to keep the birds around. We have a bunch of stop down the SE shore but nothing inland. I've never made it over to check the place out but I've heard a lot about it. Letting every joe blow with a shotgun in there would ruin a good thing. But that's just my .02 we will see what the DNR has planned.
> 
> 
> I have hunted the fields @ it. Awsome hunting. I dont know the entire story behind the property, maybe some does here, it's interesting. Yes if you want to see alot of ducks and geese it's a great place.
> ...


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## firenut8190 (Jul 15, 2006)

How about those Lions?


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## sweetseason (Oct 10, 2012)

Anyone who thinks public should be alowed to hunt this area has obviously never been there. Most of the surrounding farms flood areas, and hunt low pressure style. In many ways manage the area better than the dnr ever could. Hunters who lease farm land are on 4 generation. Nobody who hunts there even thinks about throwing a rock in the lakes out of respect for those birds.

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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

You cannot simply compare this place to the other managed areas, as I have previously stated. You just cant. All I am saying is I hope the lakes are NEVER hunted....that is including me.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Well we'll agree to disagree. I have a close friend who is an avid trout fisherman, and he had huge concerns when the state purchased some of well-known properties along the AuSable River. But in hindsight he's been very happy with the state's "management" plans. So again, all I'm saying is give them a chance to prove they can do it.


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## GDLUCK (Dec 2, 2002)

craigrh13 said:


> See, I believe my opinion on nut hunting the area is unselfish. Why ruin a great place just so a few hunters can go in there and completely change the place and how the waterfowl have used it for a few birds? If I wanted to hunt it that in my opinion would be selfish of me.


Wasn't meant to be a comment directly about this, more of a general life comment.

I can see how you would feel frustrated by this. i don't blame you. It's lose lose for the DNR. They can spend our money on good property and create opportunity for others and tick off some hunters that had access. Or, They can spend our money on lousy property with no game that no one would hunt and piss off all the tax payers.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

i will say this.

the DNR has bought many properties that i grew up hunting around the shiawassee flats. they have probably snagged 4-5 different acreages that i had permission to hunt over the years and acquired them in the same manner. each one of them i've been very pleased in how they handled it. On each one they have gotten DU north america involved in and returned it to its natural state, de-tiled in some areas returned them to moist soil units that they once were.

and as pointed out above, its the lesser of 2 evils here. this place coulda went to highest bidder and turned into a golf course.....and no one would be happy.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

firenut8190 said:


> How about those Lions?
> 
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


WHO???? Is that some high school team somewhere down SE Michigan way? Talk about making me lose my breakfast :yikes:


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## birdshooter (Jan 7, 2006)

jd we talked about this in another thread and i said if the state does buy the place i hope they made it into a managed area and you said the state dont have the resources to manage the areas they got now what makes it different from about a month ago


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

birdshooter said:


> The state has not bought the place ....


You are correct that it has not been finalized, but reliable sources tell me it's imminent, with several good funding sources, including Washtenaw County Parks being a partner.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

birdshooter said:


> jd we talked about this in another thread and i said if the state does buy the place i hope they made it into a managed area and you said the state dont have the resources to manage the areas they got now what makes it different from about a month ago


A lot of it depends on funding sources. Managed areas are typically run with license fees, which are pretty slim. My sources tell me there are some pretty deep pockets involved in this one, including NRTF, other grants, and Washtenaw County Parks. Sounds to me like the plan is multi-use, with only a portion open to hunting (nothing yet decided on where or how much).


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## birdshooter (Jan 7, 2006)

just ducky said:


> A lot of it depends on funding sources. Managed areas are typically run with license fees, which are pretty slim. My sources tell me there are some pretty deep pockets involved in this one, including NRTF, other grants, and Washtenaw County Parks. Sounds to me like the plan is multi-use, with only a portion open to hunting (nothing yet decided on where or how much).


thats good to know but who will have the most say the state or washtenaw if its washtenaw county i can see it being like sharon mills and other places they wont even let ya fish not to mention most of the land is actually in jackson county


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## moreychuck (Aug 19, 2006)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> i will say this.
> 
> the DNR has bought many properties that i grew up hunting around the shiawassee flats. they have probably snagged 4-5 different acreages that i had permission to hunt over the years and acquired them in the same manner. each one of them i've been very pleased in how they handled it. On each one they have gotten DU north america involved in and returned it to its natural state, de-tiled in some areas returned them to moist soil units that they once were.
> 
> and as pointed out above, its the lesser of 2 evils here. this place coulda went to highest bidder and turned into a golf course.....and no one would be happy.


 
I have never hunted refuges or managed area probly never will but I do understand there are a lot of people that wouldn't have opportunities to hunt without them 
our family have visited several in the summer to view wildlife esp waterfowl and I have very impressed on the way they are ran here and in surrounding states hope the state is able to make the purchase


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

birdshooter said:


> thats good to know but who will have the most say the state or washtenaw if its washtenaw county i can see it being like sharon mills and other places they wont even let ya fish not to mention most of the land is actually in jackson county


Like you said, it hasn't actually been sold yet, so who knows? Could become a park with no hunting at all? Although I'm told some of the funding sources being proposed to be used (restricted/earmarked license fees) will require some amount of hunting be permitted.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

moreychuck said:


> I have never hunted refuges or managed area probly never will but I do understand there are a lot of people that wouldn't have opportunities to hunt without them
> our family have visited several in the summer to view wildlife esp waterfowl and I have very impressed on the way they are ran here and in surrounding states hope the state is able to make the purchase


You really should make a point to hunt one or more managed areas. In fact this past year the Shiawassee Flats had a "guest hunt" program where our association hosted people who were new to the area on unofficial "guided" hunts. Our members provided all the boats and gear, and all you had to do was show up. It's a great way to get to know about the area with someone who is experienced and knowledgable. I believe we will be running the program once again this fall, so I would encourage you to give it a try.


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## birdshooter (Jan 7, 2006)

just ducky said:


> Although I'm told some of the funding sources being proposed to be used (restricted/earmarked license fees) will require some amount of hunting be permitted.


Again hope your correct and this isnt just a ploy to get that money from licences to help washtenaw get control over the land usage (this is where my conspiracy theory comes into play)because i know of 3 or 4 maybe people on that board of parks are members of the audobon society which hate hunting (had a run in with um few years ago) good thing the dnr officer that i had to call told them i was in the right and they were wrong and to move on but anyways if they get it good luck even driving threw the place


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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

I have a couple of questions for those of you complaining.

1. Who would you rather have purchase this property other than the people of the state of Michigan?

2. What property would you rather have the DNR purchase? Would you rather have them purchase an abandoned gravel pit?

I am very happy for the people of this state. I look forward to the management plan for this property.


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## birdshooter (Jan 7, 2006)

If they have a managment plan im all about this purchase as long as its used like shi , mouliee etc, but if its turned into waterloo , sharon ville etc then i stand by my original post the whole area is screwed


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

All I am saying is I hope to God that they do not allow hunting on the two lakes. Doing so would without question ruin the place. The lakes hold an unbelievable amount of birds and species of birds that I never get to see where I hunt. Truly awesome. They are not very big lakes so it is not like you could only hunt a portion of it. I am not exactly sure on which fields are Trolz but I imagine most of it is Between Arnold rd and horton rd. I believe all of that is Jackson county..as well as the lakes. Not sure how they could manage the fields for hunting without doing a bingo type set up.


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