# "Accompanied" Youth Hunters



## Lundman (Apr 27, 2007)

I am aware that an adult can only accompany two apprentice hunters at at time. From page 12 of the 2011 MI hunters guide. I assumed that this held true for youth hunters that have completed hunters safety, but now I am second guessing myself. I cannot find anything in the hunters guide that states there is a limit on how many youth hunters I can accompany.

Is there a limit to how many youth hunters I can accompany? I would like to hunt with all three of my boys all with our own bows/guns.

I have three boys under the age of 17. They all have completed hunter safety, as have I. We only hunt (gun/bow for deer) on private land in zone 3. All are within unaided eye/ear contact.

Lundman


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## Justin (Feb 21, 2005)

The way I read it today, there is no limit. They do all have to be in arms reach though.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

Justin said:


> The way I read it today, there is no limit. They do all have to be in arms reach though.


For a youth hunter that has gone through the hunter safety program and is hunting during the firearm deer season, the rules only say the youth hunter must be accompanied by a parent, guardian, or someone 18 or older designated by their parent or guardian. It doesn't say how close you have to be.


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## WALLEYE MIKE (Jan 7, 2001)

petronius said:


> For a youth hunter that has gone through the hunter safety program and is hunting during the firearm deer season, the rules only say the youth hunter must be accompanied by a parent, guardian, or someone 18 or older designated by their parent or guardian. It doesn't say how close you have to be.


To me, "accompanied" means sitting next to. Not in the sitting in the next 20 acre parcel.

When a youth has a learners permit to drive, they must be "accompanied" by an adult. That means *in* the car not the car following.


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## casscityalum (Aug 27, 2007)

I don't know the exact definition but from the book before it means with out the aid of binos or radios. So you must be able too see and maintain contact with the youth by yelling or just talking. Which if for deer means pretty much right next to him or her. Its in there shouldn't be hard to find.

Page 13 table gives the definition of accompanied by. Although it talks about the apprentice hunter, accompanied by would mean the same thing regardless imo from the way its written. 

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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

WALLEYE MIKE said:


> To me, "accompanied" means sitting next to. Not in the sitting in the next 20 acre parcel.
> 
> When a youth has a learners permit to drive, they must be "accompanied" by an adult. That means *in* the car not the car following.


I agree with you. When you "accompany" someone to the prom, you don't normally sit across the gym, when a piano player accompanies another musician, they don't play in the next room.

Sec. 43502.
(1) "Accompany" means to go along with another person under circumstances that allow one to come to the *immediate aid* of the other person and while staying within a distance from the person that permits *uninterrupted*, *unaided visual* and *auditory communication*.

Immediate aid is the part of the law that parents always seem to want to loosely define, along with unitnerrupted. Those are the ones that are often overlooked. Sure, someone can yell at their kid from the house to the mailbox and they can probably can see them too, but they can't keep them from accidentally stepping out in front of the truck with the crazy driver booze cruising. Add a few more kids and the problem just multiplies on itself.

Any one of these three definitions work for me. They all contain a similar message, right now, not even a 30-40 yard run.

1. occurring or accomplished *without **delay*; *instant*: an *immediate* reply. 
2. following or preceding *without a lapse of **time*: the *immediate* future. 
3. having *no **object** or space **intervening*; nearest or next.

Think of it as being able to reach out and grab the kid and prevent them from making a really bad decision. Or on the positive, think of it as being able to quietly give the kid insturctions as to the right way to handle a particular shot or other situation.


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## GVDocHoliday (Sep 5, 2003)

dead short said:


> I agree with you. When you "accompany" someone to the prom, you don't normally sit across the gym, when a piano player accompanies another musician, they don't play in the next room.
> 
> Sec. 43502.
> (1) "Accompany" means to go along with another person under circumstances that allow one to come to the *immediate aid* of the other person and while staying within a distance from the person that permits *uninterrupted*, *unaided visual* and *auditory communication*.
> ...


This post needs to be a sticky.


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## Justin (Feb 21, 2005)

petronius said:


> For a youth hunter that has gone through the hunter safety program and is hunting during the firearm deer season, the rules only say the youth hunter must be accompanied by a parent, guardian, or someone 18 or older designated by their parent or guardian. It doesn't say how close you have to be.


You are right . The arms reach rule has been suggested by the youth workgroup.


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## GuppyII (Sep 14, 2008)

How old before one can hunt in his/her own? I have a long time to go (my boy is only 6) but I have always wondered.

Bambi makes a cute sandwich!


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

They must be 17 yeard old


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## Lundman (Apr 27, 2007)

Guys,

Thanks for all the feedback. In summary, I believe that that this could be defined much better. Not that I want more pages/rules in the hunting guide, but I think it is warranted.

My first question of how many youth hunters can I accompany does seem to not have a limit. Of course, common sense should factor in that somewhere.

For me, I believe "accompanied" does not mean "arms reach". If this was the case, why would the words like "unaided verbal and visual contact" be used. It assumes that the youth hunter could be at a distance longer than "arms reach". Possibly 20'-30' feet, but not 200' or 300'.

Upland hunting for example. If I am with a my boys and a group of others hunting pheasant. I do not believe that a 15 or 16 year old needs to be within arms reach if you are covering a field for pheasant. See my point, maybe? Possibly the youth hunting rules may need better definition for deer/bear -vs- small game hunting?
I would suggest a distance limit, similar to the 450' safety zone. There is no interpretation of this 450' zone, it is black and white. Deer/bear - maybe it is 20' and small game it is 100'. 

I see this wording as another possible ticket opportunity as a conservation officer may interpret the guide book differently than the hunter. This does not need to be the case if worded properly. I do understand our legal system makes a living on interpreting laws though. I also understand that a 10 year old needs much more mentoring than most 16 year olds.

I would like to see if any CO's on this forum would like to weigh in on this thread and give their comments.

Lundman


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## Justin (Feb 21, 2005)

The "arms reach" rule has been suggested by the youth work group and will be looked at this spring before the new rules come out. Personally, I think it is a good distance. Easy to enforce.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

Justin said:


> The "arms reach" rule has been suggested by the youth work group and will be looked at this spring before the new rules come out. Personally, I think it is a good distance. Easy to enforce.


So when the term "arms reach" used, does that mean they have to be within 3 feet of you? Where is "arms reach" used in the hunting rules or laws?


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## Justin (Feb 21, 2005)

petronius said:


> So when the term "arms reach" used, does that mean they have to be within 3 feet of you? Where is "arms reach" used in the hunting rules or laws?


It isn't yet. As I said...it has been suggested by the youth work group and will be looked at this spring before the new rules come out. I would say 3 feet is about right.


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## WALLEYE MIKE (Jan 7, 2001)

Lundman said:


> Guys,
> 
> Thanks for all the feedback. In summary, I believe that that this could be defined much better. Not that I want more pages/rules in the hunting guide, but I think it is warranted.
> 
> ...


One did:



dead short said:


> I agree with you. When you "accompany" someone to the prom, you don't normally sit across the gym, when a piano player accompanies another musician, they don't play in the next room.
> 
> Sec. 43502.
> (1) "Accompany" means to go along with another person under circumstances that allow one to come to the *immediate aid* of the other person and while staying within a distance from the person that permits *uninterrupted*, *unaided visual* and *auditory communication*.
> ...


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

dead short said:


> I agree with you. When you "accompany" someone to the prom, you don't normally sit across the gym, when a piano player accompanies another musician, they don't play in the next room.
> 
> Sec. 43502.
> (1) "Accompany" means to go along with another person under circumstances that allow one to come to the *immediate aid* of the other person and while staying within a distance from the person that permits *uninterrupted*, *unaided visual* and *auditory communication*.
> ...


Exactly Right!


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