# Some Ideas to Reduce Gun Violence/Accidents



## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

What some firearm owners think could solve gun violence in America


There are three solutions for lessening gun violence that come up among gun owners: safe storage, universal background checks and teaching kids about firearms.




abcnews.go.com





L & O


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## FullQuiver (May 2, 2006)

Liver and Onions said:


> What some firearm owners think could solve gun violence in America
> 
> 
> There are three solutions for lessening gun violence that come up among gun owners: safe storage, universal background checks and teaching kids about firearms.
> ...


Teach actual morality and sanctity of life in all classrooms. Background checks, and storage laws won't change anything statistically. Teaching kids about firearms might help with accidents. 

The biggest contributor is the devaluation of life, by our society..


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## Lucky Dog (Jul 4, 2004)

I'm on the other side of the fence.
Less gun laws and stricter punishment.
Commit a crime with a gun, automatic death penalty.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

An armed society is a polite society.


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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

Mandatory 4 year sentence for a crime involving a gun.
Mandatory 2 year sentence for having on gun in possession without legal right.
The private parts needed to enforce these and statutes on the books.
Disregard “disproportionate” prison populations.


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## onlinebiker (Sep 19, 2019)

All gun laws written to date only serve to inconvenience the legal, law abiding gun owner.

It would be better to make the " bad children" have a "NO GUNS" logo on their I.D. 

Then make it manditory to simply check ID when a gun is 
being sold.

Any failures to do due dilligence would be a felony - as would failure of the bad children to have the right I.D.

Essentially - register criminals - not guns.


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

What we need is more laws so that the people not following the current laws can not follow the new ones as well.


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## Mole Hill (Jul 15, 2020)

I'll wait for the experts to come up with the answers , Hollywood will come up with a plan I'm sure of it.


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## Petoskey (Jan 12, 2019)

Improve access to mental health services nation wide.


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)




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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Hey intruder!

Hang on while I Easter egg hunt to find my key I put in a safe place locked away from potential gun abusers.. Here it is , in the office safe. Hang on . let's go to the gun safe. Hang on , better go to the seperate place to find some ammo.
Where's that ammo key? Hang on , it's in the freezer... Who would think to look in a box of frozen Brussel sprouts for the ammo key?
O.k. , back to the gun safe.
Hang on....Don't shoot yet. Gotta get the trigger lock off too. Ooops , wrong ammo dang it , hang on...Where's that key again?


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

Several years ago, my mother was attacked by a convicted felon. The attack did not involve a firearm however it came out after the fact that she (the felon) got a slap on the wrist for her original offenses related to auto theft & chop shop stuff. The already convicted felon essentially got another slap on the wrist after attacking my mother, which resulted in broken fingers, lots of bruising, a closed hemotoma and eye injuries that have left her legally blind and likely eventually totally blind.

Passing new laws to 'encourage' people to follow existing laws is a ridiculous feel good measure. Enforce laws that are already on the books. Then we can talk about how to make things better with new legislation.


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## Tilden Hunter (Jun 14, 2018)

The main thrust of the article was for a universal background check, which can't be accomplished without a universal registry, and therefore is a non-starter.


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## kappa8 (Aug 8, 2013)

The is no shortage of gun laws. Enforce the ones already on the books!


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## onlinebiker (Sep 19, 2019)

How can the anti gun types actually believe in the background check system?

If you figure the average salary of a GS4 (30k) and the man- hours to run approximately 40 million NICS checks (2020) figuring 1 minute per check - you spend $10,000,000 for a 1 percent rejection rate.

Bear in mind there can be many reasons for a NICS rejection. Not every rejection is "a mass shooting averted". No one can even make a guess at that without injecting a heavy bias pro or anti gun.

All we know for sure is it is an inconvenience to the law abiding citizen without any measurable justification.


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## kappa8 (Aug 8, 2013)

onlinebiker said:


> How can the anti gun types actually believe in the background check system?
> 
> If you figure the average salary of a GS4 (30k) and the man- hours to run approximately 40 million NICS checks (2020) figuring 1 minute per check - you spend $10,000,000 for a 1 percent rejection rate.
> 
> ...


But...but...but...if it saves just ONE life it will be worth it.
It's for the children.
Insurance regulations.
We've heard all the B.S. before.

Canada "had" a gun registry system. Spent $1B on a system which ultimately was non-functioning. Gun crimes reduction was zero. They scrapped it.

Gun control is NOT about guns. It's about CONTROL. Covid rules anyone??!!


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## 6thMichCav (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote from article: “According to the Department of Justice's 2016 Survey of Prison Inmates, 43% of people who used a gun in a crimeobtained the firearm off the street or in the underground market, 25% got it from an individual, either from a friend or family member or as a gift, 10% purchased the firearm at a retail source like a gun store or pawn shop, 6% stole it and 17% obtained it in some "other" way such as finding it at the scene or the gun was brought by someone else.”

So 66% of the guns used in crimes are obtained illegally—yet the law only applies to law-abiding citizens. That’s about as smart as saying that California’s drought problem can be solved by watering crops with seawater.

How many cop shows, etc, show the person being arrested with past felonies, yet they have a firearm on them or in their vehicle? Criminals don’t care, otherwise they wouldn’t be criminals.

No, let’s blame the law abiding gun owner for having their property stolen. Next, we will be putting engine governors on little old ladies’ Prius who only drive them to church on Sunday. “Sorry, ma’am, it’s in the interest of public safety!”


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## 94023 (Feb 19, 2014)

Bad people will do bad things with guns. They are called “Criminals”.

Michigan has the best solution for accident prevention, a law authorizing firearms safety training in public schools. But I’m not sure how many schools are doing it.


380.1163 Gun safety instruction for elementary school pupils; model program.
Sec. 1163.
(1) Not later than August 1, 2011, the department shall develop or adopt, and shall make available to schools, 1 or more model programs for gun safety instruction for elementary school pupils. The model program shall adopt or be based on the "Eddie Eagle" gunsafe accident prevention program developed by the national rifle association.
(2) Each school district and public school academy is encouraged to adopt and implement the model gun safety instruction program developed under subsection (1) in at least grade 3 beginning in the 2011-2012 school year.


History: Add. 2010, Act 367, Imd. Eff. Dec. 22, 2010
Popular Name: Act 451

© 2015 Legislative Council, State of Michigan


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

It's really simple. If you are a convicted felon and are caught with a fire arm you get to be a guest of the state for say 15 years without parole. No plea bargains you get caught you will do the time.


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## kappa8 (Aug 8, 2013)

Martin Looker said:


> ... you get to be a guest of the state for say 15 years without parole. No plea bargains you get caught you will do the time.


Need to introduce state vs federal into the discussion. Many states are far too lenient with offenders.


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

kappa8 said:


> Need to introduce state vs federal into the discussion. Many states are far too lenient with offenders.


Agreed. The convicted felon who attacked my mom got probation for her misdeeds related to auto theft. Wanna guess what she got for sending my mom to the ER with broken bones, concussion, etc? A stern talking to. And more probation. MSP had documented evidence she had been in possession or firearms as a felon (another felony) as well as welfare (?) fraud. Some kind of public assistance fraud (well in excess of $1k - yet another felony). But the powers that be decided not to pursue any of that. 

A criminal is going to do criminal things. I am willing to go out on a limb and say most firearm related crimes are not perpetrated by first time offenders. Had the criminals got a taste of something a bit harsher than an occasional visit with a probation officer and pee in a cup every now and then to show you're 'clean', maybe there would be less firearm crime to start with.


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## Joel/AK (Jan 12, 2013)

I agree with the laws on the books and enforcement. Already silly laws about murder and guns in schools or are they just suggestions? I'm sure the new bill that was introduced to limit mag capacity the criminals will listen to.

Zero common sense. It's all about control.


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

We don’t need any more laws We just need to fully enforce the ones we have Also be responsible gun owners and keep your weapons under your control and don’t let them get into the wrong hands. For some people that means keeping them locked in a safe.


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## Joel/AK (Jan 12, 2013)

sparky18181 said:


> We don’t need any more laws We just need to fully enforce the ones we have Also be responsible gun owners and keep your weapons under your control and don’t let them get into the wrong hands. For some people that means keeping them locked in a safe.


Also education to our next generation, not just on gun safety but how to deal with issues. 

Nowadays it seems like parents shove an Xbox to the kid and walk away.


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## piperjrc (Oct 13, 2013)

Enforce the laws we have. carrying a concealed weapon without a permit is a two-year felony I don’t think I’ve ever seen anybody that I’ve locked up in the past that did the minimum two years usually probation and then Second time probation and a third time probation. Go set in court for a few days to see what is Really going on, you will walk out sick to your stomach. There is just no deterrent to crime anymore the way the court system is handling convections. I have arrested people with four or five felony convictions and received probation or very minimal jail time. Three strikes and you’re out is a joke.


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## Joel/AK (Jan 12, 2013)

piperjrc said:


> Enforce the laws we have. carrying a concealed weapon without a permit is a two-year felony I don’t think I’ve ever seen anybody that I’ve locked up in the past that did the minimum two years usually probation and then Second time probation and a third time probation. Go set in court for a few days to see what is Really going on, you will walk out sick to your stomach. There is just no deterrent to crime anymore the way the court system is handling convections. I have arrested people with four or five felony convictions and received probation or very minimal jail time. Three strikes and you’re out is a joke.


So can we agree its much deeper than laws? It's judicial, parenting and society as a whole to change things.

It's not working now, I say we try another approach, but that's just me....


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

Joel/AK said:


> So can we agree its much deeper than laws? It's judicial, parenting and society as a whole to change things.
> 
> It's not working now, I say we try another approach, but that's just me....


Locking people up should be a last resort. You're removing them from society and putting them in a place where they can't be productive for anything. The problem is some people just don't want to conform and strive for the opposite. Then you have the wildcards that can't handle life and just snap at some point because they think somebody looked at them crooked. Doesn't matter what you do or how you put the lipstick on the pig. The best solution is to live your life without fear, and be prepared should you have to defend it, and/or a loved one's.


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## Jiw275 (Jan 1, 2015)

.


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## Stand By (Jan 23, 2015)

New laws? The trial for Crumbly's parents will tell us whether any new laws are needed. 15 years per count for their negligence tells me current laws have teeth. The case also shows PARENTING, or lack of, has consequences. 

Also waiting to see if any school faculty get indicted. Oakland County is still investigating, but the School has hired their own investigators. If I lived down there, I'd be a little concerned about the school tapping in the budget for what could be perceived as an attempt at self preservation.


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## kappa8 (Aug 8, 2013)

Stand By said:


> Also waiting to see if any school faculty get indicted. Oakland County is still investigating, but the School has hired their own investigators. If I lived down there, I'd be a little concerned about the school tapping in the budget for what could be perceived as an attempt at self preservation.


This is the single largest contributor to that school shooting. Officials had the perp with parents in the office, had plenty evidence in hand, had plenty previous warning signs, decided to NOT call in the "school resource officer", and let the murderer loose into their school without so much as a backpack check. That administrator should go to jail.


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## Joel/AK (Jan 12, 2013)

Quack Addict said:


> Locking people up should be a last resort. You're removing them from society and putting them in a place where they can't be productive for anything. The problem is some people just don't want to conform and strive for the opposite. Then you have the wildcards that can't handle life and just snap at some point because they think somebody looked at them crooked. Doesn't matter what you do or how you put the lipstick on the pig. The best solution is to live your life without fear, and be prepared should you have to defend it, and/or a loved one's.


We're seeing how cashless bail is working out in some of our cities and states. Not much incentive to be law abiding in those areas.

Locking them up is 1 of 2 options.


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## mirifle (Nov 11, 2015)

Tilden Hunter said:


> The main thrust of the article was for a universal background check, which can't be accomplished without a universal registry, and therefore is a non-starter.


This is spot on!! Universal background checks requires mandatory registration to work. This makes the next step for Schumer/Blumenthal/AOC easy.


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## Joel/AK (Jan 12, 2013)

You realize we already have mandatory registration for handguns here. We are half way there.


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## mirifle (Nov 11, 2015)

Joel/AK said:


> You realize we already have mandatory registration for handguns here. We are half way there.


yes....


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## FullQuiver (May 2, 2006)

mirifle said:


> This is spot on!! Universal background checks requires mandatory registration to work. This makes the next step for Schumer/Blumenthal/AOC easy.


Why would we need mandatory registration?


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## mirifle (Nov 11, 2015)

FullQuiver said:


> Why would we need mandatory registration?


Mandatory registration is the only way to force buyers to comply with background checks. An example: gun owner A wants to sell a shotgun to buyer B. They meet and exchange money for the shotgun. No one else knows about the transaction, there has been no background check.

With more than 100 million (a number I have heard referenced) privately owned firearms, the only way to prevent the above transaction from happening is to require all firearms to be registered with the government. The only way to force registration is to attach criminal penalties to unregistered possession and transfers. This is why the gun control crowd is encouraging this "common sense" law. It sounds benign, but the devil is in the details.


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## Joel/AK (Jan 12, 2013)

Registration doesn't do anything to stop crime. I really doubt a criminal is gonna change his way cuz of a 4473 form. They just go blackmarket.

You want to make it a PIA for a typical American, hell let's do background checks on ammo and components. I'll bet it won't make a difference.

Instead of blaming the tool, oh I don't know, let's go after the real problem. Society.

Defunding the police, cashless bail, etc is the problem nowadays. We all know crime has been a problem longer than anyone here has been alive but it's getting bad.

But hey, easier to blame the inanimate object than the real problem.


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## Joel/AK (Jan 12, 2013)

Most of the crime in this state involves a handgun. How's registration working? Take the oxford shooting. Parenting, the gun was just the tool. 

Personal responsibility has to be reinstituted. I know none of my firearms go off until I load them and I squeeze the trigger.

Sick and tired of this BS liberal crap going after a tool instead of the person controlling said tool.


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

No new law is going to reduce or prevent anything. It is already illegal to murder someone. If someone has it in their head that they want to do harm to others, they will get it done one way or another.


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## Lumberman (Sep 27, 2010)

Confiscate all firearms is the only gun control law that will work. 

Do people really think these mass shooters are willing to break the murder law but not willing to posses a illegal firearm?


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