# Need some help identifying plants



## bunji_hunter (Jul 4, 2003)

After 8 years of soil building we left it to firm up and grow on it's own for a year and a half. Up until then the only things that would come through were buckwheat and rye. We have tried a lot of different seeds and now we are curious as to what it is that is finally growing.
Anyone have any ideas as to what these two types are? Not the greatest pics sorry.








http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/500/medium/PICT00421.JPG








http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/500/medium/PICT0043.JPG


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## eucman (Jan 24, 2009)

I can't make out the distance pic. The close up one looks like spotted knapweed.


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## eucman (Jan 24, 2009)

The other picture looks like it chicory on the left. The spotted knap weed is a non-native invasive, I don't know if it has any wildlife benefits. I believe the chickory (if that's what it is) is relished by deer. The resolution on this screen isn't good. My best guess.


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## bunji_hunter (Jul 4, 2003)

Here is the only other photo I have of the flowering one. I am heading up for Labor Day weekend and I'll get better pictures with a camera at that time. I don't remember throwing Chicory, but then again we threw a lot of different things. Alfa rack, BFO, Some field seed from PF, Field seed from the Rudyard Co-op, Clover, and some other seed packages were used over the 8 years. 
I'll get better pictures of all the plants up when I get back.


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## eucman (Jan 24, 2009)

That pic is definitely spotted knapweed. 

Chickory will have a tall flower spike with sky-blue blossoms attached tight to the stalk along the length of the stalk. it has dandelion-like leaves but are larger, darker green and larger points/deeper indentations along the edge. It may not have been in the mix. It may have come in by itself. It is all along most roads by my house this time of year.


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## dauber (Jan 11, 2010)

I agree with eucman the closeup is spotted knapweed. It is great if you have bee hives as it makes good honey. For wildlife and the soil it is no good.

Here is a picture of chicory flower.












This shows kindof how the flower is attached to the stem.










Here is the leaves.










The first year all you will see is the basal leaves, the second year is when it flowers.

Have you done a soil test? Looking at the trees around the plot I would say it is very acid and I bet the soil test would show you need a bunch of lime. How did you build the soil? 

Good luck with the project.


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## bunji_hunter (Jul 4, 2003)

dauber said:


> I agree with eucman the closeup is spotted knapweed.
> Have you done a soil test? Looking at the trees around the plot I would say it is very acid and I bet the soil test would show you need a bunch of lime. How did you build the soil?
> Good luck with the project.


Think of a beach and you'll get an Idea of what the soil was just under the surface and after clearing the 2 acres it was the same.
Yes always soil testing by taking a fall sample to the MSU extensions office in Flushing Mi to get the counts for the spring fertilize and plant season.
When the project started the soil PH was 4.3 we now have it at 6.7 It took 15 tons of lime to get it up there over 2 acres
nutrients were non existent, all of it had to be built with fertilizer and green matter. 
Year one:
We originally planted BFO and Rye. The first year everything was baby sized stunted or so we thought. During the spring we had the rye chutes that were only 3 inches tall. after going out and cleaning up the branches and junk from the field we found several rye areas that were 12 inches and taller under tree limbs and debris from the previous year (the rest from looking at tracks was deer poop).
Year two:
That spring we tried Whitetail Institute Extreme seed and Buckwheat. We also created a test bed area to see what everything looked like. The Buckwheat came up and the Extreme did not. Deer mowed down the Buckwheat as fast as it would grow. That fall again Rye and BFO were put in and the animals mowed it down.
Year three:
After fertilizing we put in More Extreme, Rye and wheat. Rye and Wheat grew no Extreme. Fall planting was Rye and BFO. Deer and other game stop paying attention that we were there and would wander in at all times of the day.
Year four:
Saw a post here from a Pheasants Forever member that he had seed to give for free and we went and took all he would give. Hybrid Corn, Sorghum, Wheat, Rye, and more. We planted it and made a big mistake because during the summer we have drought conditions here. For some reason the rain just skips by us with barely a drop during late July and August. Corn was stunted to about 2-1/2 feet Sorghum was 3 feet and the rest grew normally. However it smashed the soil nutrients to nothing.
Fall planting was made of Rye only.
Year 5:
Zipped the nutrient back up and planted rye since it grew the best. Fall and spring planting were made of strictly rye.
Year 6:
Finished bringing the soil back to life and planted Rye in the spring along with a Red type of clover we shot down one edge of the plot. During the fall planting we left the clover alone and rye for the rest. The clover had some breakthrough growth so we left it.
Year seven:
We decided to just mow it in and add an over seed with rye to let the soil firm up. In the fall we just mowed the rye that matured and left the rest standing as it was. Before this we had always disced the field under, fertilized, waited a day then spread seed and packed it with a crows foot packer and quads.
This year: 
The clover is getting bigger but still small in comparison to the rest but the field reseeded and grew quite nicely. The clover is spreading out and appears to be in good health as it thickens up.
We will be seeding again the week after Labor Day with a light amount of rye as well as mowing over it. 
Now I will be taking a fall sample during hunting season to see what we need to add next year.
But, If this is just junk weeds I'm wondering if we should till it up again and keep going the way we were. This little 2 acre field is basically the only source of "good" nutrition for the critters for about 5 miles. even then it's back down to cedar swamps and light patches of grass/weeds. I'll have better pictures after this weekend and I'll post them up here then.
Thanks for the help and input.
Bunji


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## dauber (Jan 11, 2010)

Outstanding job with bringing up the pH!! You will have limits though working with sand as your soil. You have no hope in a drought year like this. You have done about the same I have on sites like that, try some things...once in a while something seems to work then a dry year kills off all but the rye. The second thing that happens is the deer eat it before you get a good stand going. A sandy site doesn't support as many plants as a loamier site does, so it takes less deer to destroy the seedlings. I used to sometimes have some luck with birdsfoot triefoil, red, alsike and white clovers seeded very early in the spring with oats or rye as a nurse crop. Also had some luck with purple top turnips with clovers seeded at the same time. Again these are mostly a crap shoot with the weather. Maybe an idea is to try experiments with 1/4 acre instead of the whole plot and stick with rye or winter wheat in the rest. 

You have done a good job working on such a poor site, but as you state the return when it works is so much more on sites like that. Good luck and I'm looking forward to seeing your pictures.


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## bunji_hunter (Jul 4, 2003)

Thanks again guys. Here is a clearer picture of the two together








Now here is a picture of it from above with the surrounding foliage. I am curious if you are talking about the "Basil leaves" as the one in the lower part of the picture. That is what these start as.








Here is what our clover bundles look like. Not sure what type we tried so long ago but this is one of the "pods" that grows on about 1/8 of the food plot. They are about 8-10 inches apart in pockets the pods are about 8 inches long and 6 inches wide. getting thicker every year.








Again guys I really appreciate the feedback.

Bunji


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## dauber (Jan 11, 2010)

The purple/blue one on the table is chicory, good whitetail food or used for tea. I'm not sure what the top one on the table is, looks like a 'darned weed" that grows in my garden.

Have you tried fall fertilizing with something like a 0-14-42 fertilizer to help the root system of the clover heading into winter. Keep the first number as low as possible. I have also had luck with "frost seeding" in the spring with clovers, works best when there is still some snow on the ground and spread the seed right on the snow. Somehting else to maybe give a try is get some red clover and birdsfoot triefoil to try, they both can handle droughty soils a little better than the white clovers. 

I htink taking another soil sample in this fall is a good idea to see where you are at now after all the hard work you have put into it. 

Thanks for posting the pictures.


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## Steve Shaw (Apr 25, 2012)

The chicory came from the Imperial Alfa Rack that you planted. It has alfalfa, chicory and clover.


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## casscityalum (Aug 27, 2007)

Top one really looks like marestail. Pretty much is almost glysophate resistance if not already 

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