# Biggest Threat to Deer Habitat: Wild Pigs?



## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

Whereas we are all concerned about various diseases that may impact our deer herd, there is a serious invasive species that is beginning to take hold in Michigan (confirmed in 69 counties) and could have a devastating impact on our habitat work. Unlike many other invasive species that have become endemic, this one is at a stage where we can do something about it, and there is a new Hog Removal Program that represents a serious effort to be the first state ever to successfully stop the invasion after it has begun. Right now, there are only 3-5000 hogs in the state, but they grow exponentially if at least 50% are not killed every year.

I posted information about the new effort and how you can participate here: http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=335692


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

Are the Michigan Nature Conservancy and Michigan Wildlife Conservancy the same entities?

It's unfortunate that something of this importance is being spearheaded by Rusz, as he carries little credibility in the minds of a meaningful percentage of the hunting populous. Regardless of one's previous perception of him and his organization hopefully all hunters can grasp the reality of this feral swine threat and get fully on board with this initiative.


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## ridgewalker (Jun 24, 2008)

I agree with the threat that feral hogs present both to habitat and to the young fawns. However I do not believe there will be any meaningful decrease in the number of feral hogs until the state gets serious about hunting. This would require hunting them at night with centerfire firearms, shotguns with serious loads, and bows. Hunting them over bait with the use of lights would also accelerate the taking of these hogs. Hogs are nocturnal to a much greater degree than are deer.


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## tommy-n (Jan 9, 2004)

November Sunrise said:


> Are the Michigan Nature Conservancy and Michigan Wildlife Conservancy the same entities?
> 
> It's unfortunate that something of this importance is being spearheaded by Rusz, as he carries little credibility in the minds of a meaningful percentage of the hunting populous. Regardless of one's previous perception of him and his organization hopefully all hunters can grasp the reality of this feral swine threat and get fully on board with this initiative.


WOW, how do you really feel. At least he's doing something about it. All the mdnr has done is make it hard for people to legally kill them


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

Unfortunately most of the areas where the hogs exist are private property.


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## blood trail (Mar 31, 2010)

I know that hog's have been becoming a problem. I just have never seen one or even sign of one.

I would love to shoot a few of them and would even go as far as doing a hunt for them. I just dont know were they are in MI. I have seen a couple of them hanging on a deer pole while passing thru Alger one time a couple of years ago, but thats about it.

Is there any one out there that knows or has any ideas of were the populations seem to be? I think that would be a good start for some of us.


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

Steve said:


> Unfortunately most of the areas where the hogs exist are private property.


Pigs, like most animals, go where food is most easily available. With baiting being banned there is not much food available on public land, so they are going to be concentrated on private land and harder for many hunters to target. Kind of like deer.


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## Michihunter (Jan 8, 2003)

steve said:


> unfortunately most of the areas where the hogs exist are private property.


bingo!!!


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

Steve said:


> Unfortunately most of the areas where the hogs exist are private property.


And therein lies a great opportunity for ambitious hunters - figure out a way to effectively harvest hogs, using whatever legal methods are available, and offer your services to kill them on someone's private land. I guarantee it will not be a difficult sell. Around me, landowners are starting to freak over the threat which the hogs represent. Successfully kill some hogs, and it may easily open the door to other hunting opportunities.


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

tommy-n said:


> WOW, how do you really feel. At least he's doing something about it. All the mdnr has done is make it hard for people to legally kill them


You have no idea how I feel about Rusz, nor did I mention how I feel about him, nor are my thoughts about him pertinent. 

I'm simply pointing out reality, which is that he's a lightning rod, and it's really difficult to for lightning rod individuals or organizations to create big successful initiatives. What we need is an alliance of every possible hunting organization in the state, led by the DNR, and incorporating a no holds barred approach of night time hunting, bounties, etc. 

Instead, what we have is an effort by a single organization with a small number of traps. Their initiative is commendable but it equates to a pimple on an elephants rear in terms of likely impact.


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## Dantana (Dec 3, 2009)

I think the first thing the DNR/Gov't needs to do is open hog hunting in all counties. As it stands right now, if a wild hog walked in my shooting lane at my property in Missaukee county, I would have to let it walk, since there is no open season in that county :rant: 

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/FSopencounties021210_312135_7.pdf

Missaukee is joined by Macomb, Charlevoix, Leelenau, Benzie, and Manistee as the only counties in the Lower Peninsula that dont allow shooting of feral swine.


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

November Sunrise said:


> You have no idea how I feel about Rusz, nor did I mention how I feel about him, nor are my thoughts about him pertinent.


I'm surprised Rusz would be worried about feral pigs, if they get eliminated what are the Cougars supposed to eat?


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

Dantana said:


> I think the first thing the DNR/Gov't needs to do is open hog hunting in all counties. As it stands right now, if a wild hog walked in my shooting lane at my property in Missaukee county, I would have to let it walk, since there is no open season in that county :rant:
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/FSopencounties021210_312135_7.pdf
> 
> Missaukee is joined by Macomb, Charlevoix, Leelenau, Benzie, and Manistee as the only counties in the Lower Peninsula that dont allow shooting of feral swine.


My understanding, possibly incorrect, is that they just voted to open all counties. Can anyone confirm that?


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## hoebekec (Jul 8, 2009)

I'll probably get yelled at for this, but if one crosses my path in Leelanau county while I'm deer hunting, I'm more than likely going to take care of it, whether they make it legal or not. 
As far as I'm concerned, feral pigs fall into the same category as woodchucks and possums --- shoot em when you have a chance!


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## 3fingervic (Jan 28, 2009)

Steve said:


> Unfortunately most of the areas where the hogs exist are private property.


I agree 100%, most farmers won't care about the problem until it is too late. 

A lot of farmers where I hunt complain about the amount of deer in the area, but do little about controlling the numbers. Off topic I know, sorry.


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## tommy-n (Jan 9, 2004)

November Sunrise said:


> You have no idea how I feel about Rusz, nor did I mention how I feel about him, nor are my thoughts about him pertinent.
> 
> I'm simply pointing out reality, which is that he's a lightning rod, and it's really difficult to for lightning rod individuals or organizations to create big successful initiatives. What we need is an alliance of every possible hunting organization in the state, led by the DNR, and incorporating a no holds barred approach of night time hunting, bounties, etc.
> 
> Instead, what we have is an effort by a single organization with a small number of traps. Their initiative is commendable but it equates to a pimple on an elephants rear in terms of likely impact.


I know him personally. He was the defensive football coach in st.charles and the wrestling coach for many years. I also know some of his relation very well and have nothing but good things to say about all of them, there good people. His son is also into wildlife biology and was a wrestling coach as well. It's so easy to sit behind the key board and talk smack, have another donut and carry on


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## thetreestandguy (Dec 16, 2005)

Munsterlndr said:


> I'm surprised Rusz would be worried about feral pigs, if they get eliminated what are the Cougars supposed to eat?


:lol::lol::lol:


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Dantana said:


> I ......., if a wild hog walked in my shooting lane at my property in Missaukee county, I would have to let it walk, since there is no open season in that county ..........


No turkey hunting there now ?

L & O


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## OSXer (Jul 12, 2005)

tommy-n said:


> I know him personally. He was the defensive football coach in st.charles and the wrestling coach for many years. I also know some of his relation very well and have nothing but good things to say about all of them, there good people. His son is also into wildlife biology and was a wrestling coach as well. It's so easy to sit behind the key board and talk smack, have another donut and carry on


And this matters because ... ? NS simply commented on the perception of this individual by others and made no direct comments.


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## tommy-n (Jan 9, 2004)

I'll point out again, what has the mdnr done about the problem. There making it hard for hunters to legally kill them. One was just shot by a turkey hunter with a slug, now the dnr is trying to give him a ticket. Lets wait for the dnr to do something about it, lets see how they handle it. Like they did with the cwd ( a single deer in captivity) or maybe like the btb. They have failed on all accounts.


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## fairfax1 (Jun 12, 2003)

Only tengetially related to the topic, but:

Has anyone participating here shot one? ...... in Michigan?

If so, did you eat it?

If so, what did you think?

OR....if you haven't shot one....have you had the opportunity to eat one shot by another hunter?


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## Michihunter (Jan 8, 2003)

fairfax1 said:


> Only tengetially related to the topic, but:
> 
> Has anyone participating here shot one? ...... in Michigan?
> 
> ...


Not sure if it applies specificallly to your question but i have shot wild hogs in TN and ate the same. Very good in my opinion.


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

From what I have heard it depends somewhat on whether the pig in question was an escapee from farm soick or a Russian Boar from a game preserve that is on the lam. I've heard that boars can be a little strong flavored compared to your typical supermarket variety pork but again I can't personally verify the accuracy. I'm sure it's also dependent on what they have been eating prior to being reduced to bar-be-que.


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## tommy-n (Jan 9, 2004)

I know of a few shot out around the gratiot/saginaw county line. From what I have heard it's good. Alot of this activity goes un-reported due to some of the current language in the game laws. I do however understand there was a bill just passed or about too to change some of the language. 
Contrary to what alot of people believe these pigs have been around longer than what we think. My father-in-law was born and raised in the lupton/rose city area. His father told me during the depression they turned there pigs and cows loose in the hill's north of lupton to fatten them up on acorns as they could not afford to feed them. From what I gather this was not all that un- common in some area's up there.


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## Michihunter (Jan 8, 2003)

The one I shot was definitely descended from farm stock at one time.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

My hunting buddy has 2 of those USDA traps, We have done a lot of scouting and he has been on the helicopter flight also. The hogs are very dificult to locate and we get ZERO COOPERATION FROM LANDOWNERS AND THOSE WHO KNOW THE LOCATION OF HOGS. We have been at it for 6 months.

If someone in the Northern half of the lower pen. wants some removed send a PM. Traps and bait are provided by USDA, He does not get paid, but we do the work, he gets to keep the hogs, But he will share them with those providing location and/or access.


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## bishs (Aug 30, 2000)

Fifteen years ago I was calling turkeys for a 14 year old in Gratiot County. We seen two large hogs and a bunch of piglets feeding on an acorn ridge. There was never any talk of wild pigs then. When we passed them upwind, the sow charged us huffing all the way. Ran in to about 20 yards then cut away. Did this several times. The boy was getting scared. I had his gun and told him if they get any closer there will be pork for all. 


Its not surprising that this is one of the areas where pigs are frequently sighted.


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## qdmaer (Oct 30, 2008)

Kinda like feral cats...i would never shoot one of those either. You would think a coyote would help thin the hogs down. As far as pigs spreading its no different than autumn olives when they had a bright idea and now trying to correct the HUGE mistakes. I am not an AO hater one bit i know it provides great habitat. 

Crop damage to farmers i think would be worse just between racoons and the feral hogs. I have never seen,heard, or even smelled a feral hog out here to this day, i am sure if farmers around me were seeing feral hogs they would push for block permits just like thinning too many does.


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

tommy-n said:


> I know him personally. He was the defensive football coach in st.charles and the wrestling coach for many years. I also know some of his relation very well and have nothing but good things to say about all of them, there good people. His son is also into wildlife biology and was a wrestling coach as well. It's so easy to sit behind the key board and talk smack, have another donut and carry on


I'm as serious as a heart attack on this topic, I'm certainly not talking smack, and you're completely missing my point. I'm genuinely not attempting to communicate an impression one way or the other of Rusz. I don't care whether he's a hero or a goat, nicest guy on earth or just the opposite. I'm not questioning his character nor is that the point. 

The point is that he and his group are very controversial, as verified by what happens any time his name has come up on here in recent years, and controversial people and/or their organizations are not a fit for trying to lead any critically important statewide initiative. 

I don't want the leaders of the movement to address asian carp to be a fly fishing group, not because I have anything against fly fisherman, but because their group automatically arouses too much opposition. 

If we at some point have to address a statewide CWD issue I don't want the leaders of the initiative to be the QDMA, not because I don't like a group that I'm a member of, but again because the group automatically arouses too much opposition.

In this case, my point is that this is not the correct individual or group to lead a statewide initiative, and that's because, just like the groups mentioned above, Rusz and his organization automatically arouse too much opposition. 

This is a game management issue that should be spearheaded by the DNR, meetings should be held immediately to garner the support of every sportsmans group under the sun, and an all out assault on feral pigs should take place.


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

November Sunrise said:


> My understanding, possibly incorrect, is that they just voted to open all counties. Can anyone confirm that?


Legislation has been passed that allows any person with permission on private land to kill a pig without a license.

There was a lot of discussion about it but common sense won out. If we really want the pigs killed, this allows Grandma who does not have a license to grab a rifle and shoot a pig if she sees one behind the house (in an area where it is otherwise legal to shoot).

I heard yesterday that Granholm had signed it but have not seen it confirmed.

Currently, in most counties where there is a problem (they are confirmed in 69 counties), a licensed hunter can legally shoot a pi. In daytime he can use a centerfire rifle when they are legal to carry, or a slug when they are legal to carry. Night time hunting with lights still requires the use of a .22, which definitely should be changed, but hasn't been so far to my knowledge. 

A friend shot one recently by carrying a slug gun with him while turkey hunting. He was in a blind, laid down his turkey gun, picked up his slug gun, and killed the pig.

The DNR confirmed (according to the guys who trained us last night) that this is legal.


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

fairfax1 said:


> Only tengetially related to the topic, but:
> 
> Has anyone participating here shot one? ...... in Michigan?
> 
> ...


Iv'e shot two. 

This sow at 4 yards with a bow:










And this piglet, at 5 yards with a muzzleloader. It was so cold that night the spraying blood froze before it hit the ground:lol:.










Best pork I have ever had in my life.

Caution though. These are wild Russian Boars and may have trichinosis, so the meat must be cooked all the way through.


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

Munsterlndr said:


> From what I have heard it depends somewhat on whether the pig in question was an escapee from farm soick or a Russian Boar from a game preserve that is on the lam. I've heard that boars can be a little strong flavored compared to your typical supermarket variety pork but again I can't personally verify the accuracy. I'm sure it's also dependent on what they have been eating prior to being reduced to bar-be-que.


Most of the boars in Michigan are Russians that have escaped from facilities. They are the same genus and species as the domestic but have a much different phenotype.


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

tommy-n said:


> I know him personally. He was the defensive football coach in st.charles and the wrestling coach for many years. I also know some of his relation very well and have nothing but good things to say about all of them, there good people. His son is also into wildlife biology and was a wrestling coach as well. It's so easy to sit behind the key board and talk smack, have another donut and carry on


I agree with you. I spent the day last week with Pat. He delivered a corral trap to me for a neighbor. He is a great guy and his son is an avid deer hunter in Branch county and will almost certainly read these posts. A little sensitivity is in order as the family is watching.

I learned a lot from Pat. Plus I have that trap to deliver to my neighbor (who has shot 6 pigs in the last couple of years), I have another one in the back of the truck for my property, I have a second one placed on my property, a box type, I inspected another neighbor's corral trap with Pat, which has already trapped a pig, and I have a 4th neighbor with two traps that has killed 7 pigs with a gun in the last year.

Last night's meeting was done in a sterling, professional manner by Pat and Tim from the USDA.

This is a real effort. These traps make a noise when the door slams shut, they are not a pipe dream or a half-assed effort. Very well made. My area has been devastated by these animals. How about we all pull together in a positive way instead of immediately declaring it a failure?

In fact, one of the traps is placed on the property of a left wing anti-hunting preservationist professor whose entire property is in the wetlands program. She is actively working to help us eradicate them. Philosophically, she is opposed to hunting, but practically, she realized her property was at the epicenter of a habitat disaster in the making.


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## Sportsman1933 (Nov 26, 2007)

Sounds like you have quite a population. I have never seen one nor signs of one in the wild, what kind of damage do they do? I suspect a lot of rooting around, eating crops, etc. How do the deer and pigs interact?


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

Sportsman1933 said:


> Sounds like you have quite a population. I have never seen one nor signs of one in the wild, what kind of damage do they do? I suspect a lot of rooting around, eating crops, etc. How do the deer and pigs interact?


Funny as it sounds, pigs make crop circles in corn. they will come in and in one night knock down a quarter acre of corn, usually in a circle.

They will hit freshly turned and seed ground and root up an entire food plot.

In 2008 I watched 3 pigs come into the south end of a 3 acre corn plot in late December. I could see the tails of deer running out the other end. I never saw a single mature buck that year. The following year, when they moved across the road, I saw 5 3.5 yo bucks and 52 bucks total. They just take over. 

That year, I never saw a turkey or a turkey feather on a farm that was loaded with turkeys in the spring before the pigs showed up. 

There is no end to the damage they can do.


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## blood trail (Mar 31, 2010)

tommy-n said:


> I'll point out again, what has the mdnr done about the problem. There making it hard for hunters to legally kill them. One was just shot by a turkey hunter with a slug, now the dnr is trying to give him a ticket. Lets wait for the dnr to do something about it, lets see how they handle it. Like they did with the cwd ( a single deer in captivity) or maybe like the btb. They have failed on all accounts.


 
What's a turkey hunter doing with a slug in his gun?.....He must of been after one heck of a turkey!!!!


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## malainse (Sep 2, 2002)

blood trail said:


> What's a turkey hunter doing with a slug in his gun?.....


Violating the turkey hunting rules.......

You can take a swine but, still need to follow the other rules.


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