# beads?



## downfloat (May 3, 2007)

Trying to figure out on the MDNR site if beads can be fished in fly only waters? Anyone know, have not fished up north in a while for steel, mostly been fishing ohio and have done well on beads there. Trying to make vest "fly only" legal, I hope all of the spawn/bait stain/stink will be ok!!


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## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

Beadhead flies are fine. In the fly water you cannot use or possess any kind of bait or even liquid scents or attractants.


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## Chromedoggy (Mar 25, 2007)

A dressed troutbead on a hook would be questionable.
A pegged bead, sliding bead, or bead affixed to a hook would not be legal.
(according to my interpretation of definitions)


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## downfloat (May 3, 2007)

Thanks for the reply. Guess theyre coming out of the vest. I typically fished them pegged below a float! Just saw they extended the flies only to rainbow on the pm!

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## lostontheice (Feb 18, 2011)

how i read "fly only" is no LIVE BAIT,OR ORGANIC BAITS or sents..and beads are not live or organic,so they are/should be ok..i dont see any difference between a yarn "fly" in egg pattern and a bead egg..you can contact the local dnr office to ask that question,just get the persons name that you talk to..


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## Chromedoggy (Mar 25, 2007)

Here is the DNR definition
In my opinion a troutbead is an artificial lure, not fly 

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[SIZE=+1]*
*[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]*Artificial Flies *means any commonly accepted single hook wet and dry flies, streamers, and nymphs without spinner, spoon, scoop, lip or any other fishing lure or bait attached. The fly or leader may be weighted but no weight shall be attached to the fly or to the terminal tackle in a manner that allows the weight to be suspended from or below the hook. [/SIZE]


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## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

Not really. You can fish bait from Bowman's Bridge to Rainbow Rapids from Sept.1 until the regular trout season that begins the last Saturday in April this year through Sept. 30th. The limit is one rainbow. Rainbow must be at least 10". Since type 4 regulations are in effect I think you can also keep salmon. Except type 4 waters are open all year and the limit on trout is 5 but only 3 may be 15" or larger. The one rainbow using bait regulation is an exception between Sept. 1st and April 30th since type 4 regulations say you may not keep brook, brown or Atlantic salmon between the last Saturday in April until Sept. 30th.

So if the one 10" or larger rainbow is allowed with bait ending this year April 30th the exception to type 4 regulations, and keeping salmon is not discussed in the exception other than referring to Type 4 regulations, my best guess is you can not keep any brook, brown or Atlantic salmon during this period but along with your 1 ten inch or bigger rainbow you can keep 4 king or coho salmon except you could keep a total of 5 salmon if they are over 10".

If you are interested in trout, the rules state that from opening day of the regular trout season April 30th this year until August 31 no bait is allowed. You may use flies or artificial lures only. You may keep 2 trout or salmon. Trout must be between 8" and 14" and you may not keep trout between 14" and 18" except one brown trout may be over 18" of your two trout limit and alow t only one of the two trout may be a rainbow. You may keep 2 salmon but if you do, you can't keep any trout and the salmon must be 10".

That means that you may keep 2 trout or salmon, 2 fish total. If you keep trout, only one may be a rainbow but not if the rainbow is less than 8" and not more than 14". You may keep two brown trout but the brown trout must be less than 8" to 14" except one of the two brown trout can be over 18". These are the exceptions to Type 4 regulations except in type 4 waters rainbows and brown trout must be a minimum of 10" These trout regulations end August 31st instead of September 30th, because Sept. 1 you may use bait again but remember you are only be allowed to keep one rainbow over 10" and 4 salmon except you may not keep Atlantic salmon. My advice however is to check to see how many salmon you may keep for sure between Sept. 1 and the last Saturday in April.

I hope this helps explain the special regulations on this 10.5 miles of the PM. If you didnt know, these rules are a result of a compromise when the DNR felt it was imperative to have input from some salmon and steelhead fishermen and some trout fishermen at the last minute so Becky Humphries could sign this special regulation package as she walked out the door.

While I tried for months to be involved in the negotiations starting in early June of last year I was denied. Since early 2009 a citizens cold water committee was meeting with the DNR and on their own to help in the design and the designation of these new regulations would be applied. Anyone who knows me knows that I represent equal access of all fishermen to all public waters and think fly and gear regulations are discriminatory and not necessary. To be fair, I know Kelly Smith reached out to some other fishing groups, but for whatever reasons they did not see the importance of what was happening or were apathetic didnt engage. 

It was early June was when I first found out about this citizens cold water committee and try as I might not only was I not accepted as a member to this committee, I couldnt even find out who was on the committee. Two months after this fish order was signed by director Humphries I finally found out who was on the committee. I blame my ineptness for not finding out sooner as Whit knew and posted the names early in 2010 so the information was out there somewhere and I just couldnt find it or I missed it.

For those who dont know but are interested in who the members of this unbiased DNR citizens cold water committee were, here is the list. Michigan River Guides Association, Sierra Club, Pere Marquette Watershed, Au Sable Big Water Preservation Association, Great Lakes Council of Fly Fishers, Federation of Fly Fishers, Michigan Trout Unlimited, and Anglers of the Au Sable. There was also a spokesman from MUCC that supported the gear restriction rules, but we are still trying to find out if the person had permission to represent the organization.

I spent a great deal of time last year trying to figure out who the players were and what their agenda was although I was pretty sure I knew. For the most part the people I talked with were polite and friendly. One conservation I remember clearly was with DR. Bryan Bourroughs the executive director of Trout Unlimited in Michigan. When I called him the first time I asked if TU was a fly fishing organization or an organization dedicated to enhancing the places where trout live, he replied the latter of course. He said he wondered if TU should even be considered a fishing organization since many of the members either didnt fish. Their mission is to enhance trout populations through habitat improvement not gear restrictions.

I then asked why TU was supporting these gear regulations. He told me they had data that showed that during the salmon/steelhead season there was extraordinary pressure on the PM and that those fishermen were hooking many of the trout positioned behind the spawning salmon and steelhead. He went on to say while these fishermen were releasing them the threat to the trout fishery was very high because of the high death rate (hooking mortality) of the released trout and in order to protect the trout population they supported a no bait rule.

I asked if he supported a no bait rule during the regular trout season. Dr. Burroughs replied that he did not feel bait restrictions were necessary during the regular trout season because there was almost no pressure and without spawning steelhead or salmon the fish were more spread out through the system and were in no danger. It all sounded good, but if there was data, why wasnt it given to the DNR fish biologist for review?

In any event I went to the NRC meeting with Ranger Ray in Novemver 2010 to testify against the gear restrictions as any testimony after that meeting would not be considered. It was just before the meeting began that we found out the decision was already made and director Humphries had already agreed to sign it. Depressing to say the least.

The rules I discussed in the first part of this post for the PM are a result of a last minute compromise mainly because of some dedicated members of this site. As bad as new rules are, , without their efforts the regulation for the PM might well have been flies only No Kill from M37 downstream 27.5 miles to Walhalla.

The reason I mentioned my discussion with the TU director is to point out the irony of the new regulations on the PM. In the steelhead/salmon season when DR. Burroughs said he had data to support excluding bait, bait is still allowed. For the period when he told me there was no threat in his opinion bait no longer allowed. Perhaps this was a surprise to him as well as me, but I asked him about it when I was leaving the NRC meeting and he just shrugged his shoulders.

There is no question this was a political driven decision and while we were to late and had to little influence it was the catalyst for us to create a grass roots organization Great Lakes Fishing and Sporting Alliance (GLFSA) that has as one of its goals the repeal of all gear restrictions on public waters. We formed GLFSA around Christmas and as we get more involved we are learning every day about rules that exclude hunters, trappers, fishermen and other sportsmen and women from many outdoor opportunities. The two main areas where public rights are being denied are access to public lakes and public lands including CRF lands. Like many organizations the more members we have the more effective we will be so If you join our organization you will be making the simple statement that you believe in the protection of our public rights to use public lands and waters.

The next time you find a gate blocking access into CRF lands or find a road arbitrarily blocked off by the forest service or wonder why the boat ramp hasnt been built on a local lake when you know there was one planned, or even if you find a no trespassing sign on land you were pretty sure it is state land, join us. If some land owner tries to deny you access to any stream because it was not a navigable stream or it is private, join us and you might learn that there are only three streams in Michigan that are not navigable and the U.S. Supreme Court has stated that all other flowing waters are navigable. That means you have the right to walk along the shore of ever little stream up to the ordinary high water mark and the state cannot sell or give away that right under the Public Trust Doctrine because they are bound by law to protect the rights of the public especially in regard to fishing.

You may have heard the Supreme Court recently declared that the public has the right to walk the beaches of all our great lakes under the Public Trust which means you can walk along the shore as long as you gain access from public land or are given permission to the shore by a landowner. Once you get there no one can make you leave or stop you from walking down the shoreline. You have the same rights to any stream or river to walk or fish within the public rights granted us since before our Constitution was written. 

In many cases the law has not been applied under the Public Trust even by law enforcement but the law still exists and our goal is to educate law enforcement and private landowners and even our legislature so this basic right is not ignored in the future. Join us and you will be helping us speed up the process.


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