# 300 Savage 150 gr or 180 gr ????



## Beeg (Sep 6, 2000)

I deer hunt with a Remington bolt action 300 Savege and have taken 17 deer with it here in Michigan. I am going on a bear hunt in Ontario in August and plan to take use my bow. I have 5 days to hunt and if I see bears out of bow range I plan to take the 300 Savage on the last 2 days of the hunt. I have never used anything other than 150 gr bullits and was wondering if the 180 gr made that much difference in killing power ? My shots would probably be less than 60 yards. As far as deer go would I be better off usung the 180 gr as my longest shots on deer are less than 100 yards. I am much better informed with bow and arrow than with rifles and ammo. Thank You


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

are good, but get a PSP not a Rn bullet. The PSP shoots flatter and retains its enegry better than a RN slug does. I have a Rem 760 in 300 Savage and shoot the Federal 180 bullets. Rich [The 150s are good for deer, but the 180 gives you a bit more weight to punch through with].


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## CMR (Jul 25, 2003)

Rule of thumb is the heavier the bullet, the more penetration. For black bears and a 300 Savage, go for the 180gr bullet. Nosler Partition would be perfect.


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## explorer1 (Jan 6, 2005)

Another vote for the 180gr. bullet. I would choose the 180gr. bullet because it is more apt to make an exit hole and therefore a blood trail to follow. That alone will someday help you recover a wounded animal that might otherwise be lost. All shots taken at game are not picture perfect broadside shots. You have to take what you can get in the woods. The extra pennetration of the 180gr. bullet will help the bullet reach the vital organs on a quartering toward, away, or head on shot. They also deal with heavy bone better. The pennetration factor is more important than the flatter trajectory of light bullets under 150 yards. A pointed 180gr. bullet would be an excellent choice, take your pick as to brand.


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## Dan Bennett (Dec 8, 2001)

I have found the best bullet for this gun is a 165 grain boattail. I owned a 300 for years and got it from my grandfather. Take a close look at the 165.


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

explorer1 said:


> Another vote for the 180gr. bullet. I would choose the 180gr. bullet because it is more apt to make an exit hole and therefore a blood trail to follow. That alone will someday help you recover a wounded animal that might otherwise be lost. All shots taken at game are not picture perfect broadside shots. You have to take what you can get in the woods. The extra pennetration of the 180gr. bullet will help the bullet reach the vital organs on a quartering toward, away, or head on shot. They also deal with heavy bone better. The pennetration factor is more important than the flatter trajectory of light bullets under 150 yards. A pointed 180gr. bullet would be an excellent choice, take your pick as to brand.


bullet weight has nothing to do with exit holes. i could easily shoot a 325 grain lead bullet and not get an exit wound on a big animal like a bear. bullet construction is key.

then again, all brands are not the same either - because they are constructed differently. each design is going to produce different results. that said, most of the premium lines of remington, winchester, and federal, etc. will do the job just fine, and can be found on many shelves.

all things being equal - that is - bullet speed, and bullet construction - the heavier bullet will penetrate further. that fact is established by the idea of "sectional density", which is defined as SD=(bullet weight in pounds)/(bullet diameter, squared). there is roughly 7000 grains in a pound, so therefore, all things being equal, consider:

150 grain bullet:
SD=.0214/(.3^2)=0.238

180 grain bullet:
SD=.0257/(.3^2)=0.286

ballistically speaking, as huntsman pointed out, sectional densities in the .240 range perform well on deer size animals. a sectional density of .286 would be adequate on animals as big as moose. SD is one piece - bullet speed and construction have a big impact as well. 

this is the age old debate - a bullet that expands sufficiently to create a large wound channel, and release all of its energy in the animal, or a bullet that retains its shape, with a smaller wound channel, but penetrates through the animal. you'll find as many arguments for as against. i personally lean towards bullet expansion.

but the idea of penetration has a great deal to do with bullet construction, not just weight.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

RZ has been doing his homework!  

I like heavy for caliber bullet weights and this will almost always ensure a high SD.

A good rule to remember is that bullets of similar construction, with similar SD, fired at similar velocities will have similar pentration traits regardless of caliber. This is a theory ofcourse and hard to duplicate in the real world due to many variables.


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

You have to remember the bullet type spitzer, RN, Boattails. Certainly a Spitzer or Spitzer BT will shoot flatter and retain more down range energy than a RN bullet will. [Im sure this was a small oversight on your part]. This is easily seen say with a Rem 30-06 RN Vs a 30-06 SP [both of 180gr wt of course]. Rich


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

Swamp Monster said:


> RZ has been doing his homework!
> 
> I like heavy for caliber bullet weights and this will almost always ensure a high SD.
> 
> A good rule to remember is that bullets of similar construction, with similar SD, fired at similar velocities will have similar pentration traits regardless of caliber. This is a theory ofcourse and hard to duplicate in the real world due to many variables.


its been a little slow today, swamp.. :lol: 

you're exactly right though - there are so many variables that "apples to apples" testing is pretty difficult.

one additional example really drives the "theory" home though - consider the .270 round. when we look at the SD of that compared to a .300 round:

(again - all things being equal - speed, construction)

.300 cal., 180 grain bullet:
SD=.0257/(.3^2)=0.286

.270 cal., 150 grain bullet:
SD=.0214/(.27^2)=0.294

the 150 grain .270 (maybe the best all around caliber out there, imo) has a greater SD than the 180 grain .300 . 

and it makes sense, really, in terms of penetration. for example - would it be easier to poke a hole in a wall with, say, a baseball bat, or a screwdriver? more surface face equals more resistance, which in turn, equals less penetration. (again, all things being equal.)

now, this really has turned into a discussion of theory, and as swamp pointed out, SD is not the "end all" in penetration discussions, however, neither is bullet weight, speed, construction, etc. just another indicator for us while navigating the dizzying array of choices out there.

what side will you fall on? i just went through this with a good hunting friend. i use pure lead, 325 grain sabots out of my muzzle loader on deer. he uses a 245 grain barnes spitfire, newer version of the expander. i shoot a deer, i rarely get a pass through, but the wound is impressive. he shoots a deer, and his odds of a pass through are good. in the end, there's 2 dead deer lying there. so the debate rages on.

nonetheless, i've made a long story out of a short one. your question was whether the 180 vs. 150 grain would make much difference in killing power. it depends on your definition of killing power. but as others have accurately pointed out (in far fewer words), the 180 grain bullet would be a good choice.

(i will say this though - i like lead in muzzleloading because of reliable expansion at slow speeds. my friend likes barnes because of tightly controlled expansion. either way, we both generally get what we expect. but poor bullet design, as in the case with many jacketed bullets, can lead to unexpected results.. bullet design is important to me. not to worry - the premium brands generally perform well. just something to consider when trying to find a "deal" on bullets.)


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

Huntsman27 said:


> You have to remember the bullet type spitzer, RN, Boattails. Certainly a Spitzer or Spitzer BT will shoot flatter and retain more down range energy than a RN bullet will. [Im sure this was a small oversight on your part]. This is easily seen say with a Rem 30-06 RN Vs a 30-06 SP [both of 180gr wt of course]. Rich


that's exactly true as well. trajectories, speeds, energy, are each a thread unto themselves.

accuracy aside, what the down range velocity difference between a 30-06 RN and a 30-06 spitzer? in this example, that would be the primary factor in energy retained down range, although i'd tend to think that the loss would be minimal, and eventually, negated.. (velocity is shed, weight is not. down range energy, at some point, will always side with the heavier bullet, regardless of muzzle velocity)

as fun as it is to debate theory, when all is said and done, i have to agree with what's-his-name's theory - that is - 

"Accuracy still reigns supreme."

if your gun shoots the 150 grain better, shoot it. 150 grains in the lungs will kill quicker than 180 grains in the shoulder.


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

the 06 180 I told you about. A 180 RN bleeds energy and speed off fast. Compare to a SP bullet at say 300-500 yards on the ballistics chart. Then youll understand what I mean. Kind of like throwing a round ball and a missile...the shape determines a lot of things. Rich


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