# Chipping a Duramax



## 4x4_Hunter (Jan 2, 2002)

Was wondering if anyone here has 'chipped' a 2002 Duramax Diesel truck? If so, what kind of performance kit did you get, what fuel economy improvement did you notice, and what hp gain did you achieve? 

Was it easy to install and is the chip the only improvement you did? After seeing a couple of chipped D-Max trucks pull the sleds down the track at the Monroe County Fair the other night, I was amazed at the power difference between the one that was chipped compared to the one that was obviously 100% stock. Although, the 100% stock 2002 D-Max still way out-pulled the brand new 2008 Ford F-350 gas job. Unfortunately, there wasn't a truck with the new 6.4L Power Stroke. The 6.0 did okay but was still beat by the D-Max.

Not looking to spend a fortune in my '02 D-Max but would definitely entertain spending $500-$800 on a performance kit that will get me 3-4 mpg better fuel economy while increasing hp at the same time.

Any thoughts???


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## SalmonBum (Feb 28, 2001)

I run the Edge with attitude on my '03 Duramax. 5 settings on the fly with the digital gauges. Anywhere from an extra 40-125hp and goobs torque. Running with extra 40 hp, I get 21-22 mpg all day long. Cost me about $750, that includes the box, digital gauges and the A-Pillar Mount. I'm in Dyren and Ludington if you wanna go for a ride :yikes:.


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## ajmorell (Apr 27, 2007)

Chipping a diesel is one of the best things you can do to it but if you want to get the most power and economy out of it add a cold air intake and a free flowing turbo back exhaust too. Just make sure whatever you do to it you don't over do it because your transmission is only made to handle so much.....and Allisons are not cheap to rebuild.


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## 4x4_Hunter (Jan 2, 2002)

Hey SalmonBum,


Thanks for the great info. Is that that the only thing you added to your's or did you do other mods to the air intake and/or exhaust? That is really sharp how that sits in there like that. Your's is the '03 MY though, so your mpg improvement will be greater than mine, because you have EGR on your's. I don't have EGR and therefore, Edge and alike can't adjust that for better fuel economy. 

As for a chip being the 'best thing you can do to a diesel', I would have to disagree there. I personally know (and worked with) the lead engineer who was in charge of the overall calibration and release of the D-Max from '01-'07 and when I asked him about it, he stated that it is one of the worst things you can do for your truck (durability-wise). He did state that it depends on exactly what you do. Should've just had him flash his 'embarrass the gassers' calibration for me. Oh well. 

Anyway, thanks for the info guys. Any more is definitely welcome!!!


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## SalmonBum (Feb 28, 2001)

My '03 has no EGR, or CAT. I have an air intake, but no exhaust. I'm trying to find one that is quite as stock, and that is hard to do unless you wanna spend $1000 for a Corsair or Volant.

As for it being bad for the truck, It all depends on how you use it. I run mine with only the 40 hp setting, unless a Mustang wants to play. There was a guy that had 550,000 miles on his '02 that was chipped and towed a 5th wheel the entire time. One piston finnally let go then, but the mechanic thinks its due to the injector problems he had in the beginning (Fuel diluting the oil). The tranny was almost new looking at that time. If you play HARD alot on the higher settings, it will do damage (yes, even the Ally). But if your conservative, you'll be OK. I monitor my Tourqe Converter slippage and have yet to see over 1% and i have 105K. At 5% the tranny will go into limp mode.


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## ajmorell (Apr 27, 2007)

4x4_Hunter said:


> Hey SalmonBum,
> 
> 
> Thanks for the great info. Is that that the only thing you added to your's or did you do other mods to the air intake and/or exhaust? That is really sharp how that sits in there like that. Your's is the '03 MY though, so your mpg improvement will be greater than mine, because you have EGR on your's. I don't have EGR and therefore, Edge and alike can't adjust that for better fuel economy.
> ...


Essentially a chip does "recalibrate" the computer on your truck so reflashing the computer really shouldn't be much different. Clearly adding more power is going to be detrimental to the life, it is that way with nearly any power-adder. Look at top fuel dragsters...they run one engine per run down the track. You just need to decide what trade-offs you are willing to make.



SalmonBum said:


> My '03 has no EGR, or CAT. I have an air intake, but no exhaust. I'm trying to find one that is quite as stock, and that is hard to do unless you wanna spend $1000 for a Corsair or Volant.
> 
> As for it being bad for the truck, It all depends on how you use it. I run mine with only the 40 hp setting, unless a Mustang wants to play. There was a guy that had 550,000 miles on his '02 that was chipped and towed a 5th wheel the entire time. One piston finnally let go then, but the mechanic thinks its due to the injector problems he had in the beginning (Fuel diluting the oil). The tranny was almost new looking at that time. If you play HARD alot on the higher settings, it will do damage (yes, even the Ally). But if your conservative, you'll be OK. I monitor my Tourqe Converter slippage and have yet to see over 1% and i have 105K. At 5% the tranny will go into limp mode.



Agree with everything you have said there. I have also heard that the Allison is not as strong as many people make it out to be. Out of the auto trannies behind the chevy, dodge and ford diesels I would rank it second behind the Ford. Chrysler is known for crappy auto trannies, however the NV5600 behind the Cummins IS the most durable of all transmissions behind all diesels and will handle the most power.


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## hypox (Jan 23, 2000)

Anyone have any info on chipping a 7.3 powerstroke? I've been thinking about it for a while but I have been wondering if it will really increase my milage?


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## bigcountrysg (Oct 9, 2006)

hypox said:


> Anyone have any info on chipping a 7.3 powerstroke? I've been thinking about it for a while but I have been wondering if it will really increase my milage?


 
Ok I read all and I can not believe no one mentioned another important factor with chips in diesels. You need to Add GAUGES, Pyrometer, Boost, Trans Temp. If you do any chipping or tuning to your diesel please add these relatively cheap, safety insurance. There are levels you don't want to get above. 

Cummins, You got an aftermarket world out there, TS diesel Performance, DPP Discount Power Parts, BD diesel performance ( not to be mistaken for Bully Dog), Bully Dog, and there are tons of them. If you have a Cummins and say you can not find any diesel performance you ain't looking.

Duramax, my buddy has the edge, he likes it, it puts out extra power. Not a bad unit niether comes with all the bells and whistles good product for the cost. 

Powerstroke, 7.3L powerstroke you wanna run a custom chip for best performance I have a TS diesel Performance 6 position chip in my truck. That is what I recommend. How ever you have Dp tuner, TWildman ( Tony Wildman), Elite Diesel Performance, DPP Discount Power Parts, Bully Dog, EDGE, Banks ( banks is over priced with crappy customer service and they do not support there own products. As in if it breaks while under warranty they will fight with you about it.) 

To find some diesel performance parts contact these guys. I buy alot of stuff from them. Pat and Larry who are the only two guys I will deal with are great guys. They are located in PA.

www.DiscountPowerParts.com 

Raul, owns and operates stealth automotive. He too is a great guy and get you things as well. I have bought things from him as well. He is located in CA.
www.stealth-automotive.com 

TS performance not only has tunes for diesel trucks. They also have performance parts for International tractors, John Deere Tractors and some other tractor brands. They are located in Bowling Green Kentucky.
www.tsperformance.com 

Paul, who is located out by Jackson carries alot of stuff for the powerstroke diesels. I have not personally dealt with him yet. But I have heard good things from him and will be hopefully doing bussiness with him in the near future.
www.paulshp.com 

Ok if you want to know more about your truck and diesel performance check out these sites.


www.cumminsforum.com

www.powerstroke.org ( I am a member of this one I am on it alot. Same Screen name as here.)

www.duramaxforum.com 

From my understanding they are all owned by the same person. But they are ran by different people. 

if you wanna learn about all the common diesels out there there is this 

www.dieselbombers.com ( I am on this one too same name)

Any questions about the powerstroke go ahead and ask me.

Or if you have a 6.2L or 6.5L and need help with it let me know. I worked on those two engines for 7 years while in the corps.


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## DROPTINE 14 (Jan 20, 2006)

http://www.turbodieselregister.com/ for the dodge guys

you can never have too many guages,or too easy of a time breathing 

on my 98 ram i had twin turbos , a marine injector pump ,6" stacks,44"tsl boggers and it was off the hook i could not take off with out smokin the tires 

now i am building a jeep yj with a izuzu diesel 4 cyl twin turbo .....well i guess


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## 4x4_Hunter (Jan 2, 2002)

ajmorell
"Essentially a chip does "recalibrate" the computer on your truck so reflashing the computer really shouldn't be much different. Clearly adding more power is going to be detrimental to the life, it is that way with nearly any power-adder. Look at top fuel dragsters...they run one engine per run down the track. You just need to decide what trade-offs you are willing to make."


AJ, what you say here is mostly correct, depends on what unit you use. Some will actually 'flash' the controller and others are just 'bypass' systems which bypass certain functions within the software and uses the new function developed in the performance unit. I understand all of that perfectly because that is what I do 40+ hrs/wk. Also, I totally understand that a lot of the parts have limitations. That is pretty much the reason for my post. If you want to get a ton of extra power without busting up your powertrain, you need all of the extra gauges and sensors and such. My question was if anyone has experience with a performance kit that gives a 'reasonable' amount of extra power & fuel economy but not to the extremes where all the extra sensors and gauges are necessary. My truck has a trans temp gauge already from stock. I am more concerned with turbo speed and cac pressures. What I was told by more than one design engineer from Isuzu was that the engines were right at max HP that it can physically handle without redesigning the engine. Now, that was for the higher hp '06 model. I know that my '02 has plenty more hp to be had without breaking. I also totally 100% agree that it is how you use or abuse the chip power!


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## ajmorell (Apr 27, 2007)

4x4_Hunter said:


> ajmorell
> "Essentially a chip does "recalibrate" the computer on your truck so reflashing the computer really shouldn't be much different. Clearly adding more power is going to be detrimental to the life, it is that way with nearly any power-adder. Look at top fuel dragsters...they run one engine per run down the track. You just need to decide what trade-offs you are willing to make."
> 
> 
> AJ, what you say here is mostly correct, depends on what unit you use. Some will actually 'flash' the controller and others are just 'bypass' systems which bypass certain functions within the software and uses the new function developed in the performance unit. I understand all of that perfectly because that is what I do 40+ hrs/wk. Also, I totally understand that a lot of the parts have limitations. That is pretty much the reason for my post. If you want to get a ton of extra power without busting up your powertrain, you need all of the extra gauges and sensors and such. My question was if anyone has experience with a performance kit that gives a 'reasonable' amount of extra power & fuel economy but not to the extremes where all the extra sensors and gauges are necessary. My truck has a trans temp gauge already from stock. I am more concerned with turbo speed and cac pressures. What I was told by more than one design engineer from Isuzu was that the engines were right at max HP that it can physically handle without redesigning the engine. Now, that was for the higher hp '06 model. I know that my '02 has plenty more hp to be had without breaking. I also totally 100% agree that it is how you use or abuse the chip power!


I don't know a lot about the chips/controllers themselves, it appears it varies by unit. From what I have read, it sounds like you would want one that does recalibrate the computer rather than just bypassing things.

I'm not sure who you talked to with regard to the engine, but realistically that probably isn't true. The diesels they put in light-duty trucks (light duty with respect to the trucking industry) are typically detuned (the 6.6 Duramax in non-passanger vehicles and the like usually have a higher output (tq/hp)). He may be right about the rest of the drivetrain, but typically not the engine. It is my understanding that with a lot of chips you will also want to add a bigger exhaust to lower EGTs, which is another very important gauge I would consider adding. Trans temp is pretty important if you are towing, but realistically the trans shouldn't be getting hot just because it has more power going to it...it generates the majority of its heat from up & down shifting and cycling the gears. Given the trans will only hold so much power so you do want to be aware of how much power you are adding and don't over-do it. The Allison is a good, strong transmission (though many will debate over this), but it cots a small fortune to rebuild. I have been told in the $4,000-$5,000 range. Personally my suggestions is to get a programmer setup where you have the in-cab controller that displays things like EGT, turbo speed, etc right on it. That eliminates a lot of extra work wiring gauges and still provides you with the important information you need.


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## 4x4_Hunter (Jan 2, 2002)

I agree AJ... thing is, my 'older' truck doesn't have a lot of the sensors to measure the things that you are refering to (turbo speed, EGT, etc.). Most of the newer ones have these but not some of the older ones. That's why I asked Salmon Bun if he had to wire up a pickup sensor on the turbo and tc on the exhaust. 

Most of the questionable part durability with regards to the hp output, yes, is the rest of the powertrain. Thing is, I believe what he said with regard to the engine itself too because they have redesigned that engine a couple times since then in order to accomodate the extra hp (hence some of the engine reference changes LLY, LMM, etc.). I don't know exactly what the changes were and I'm sure not all of them had to do with durability for extra hp but I know where you are coming from and the source that told me these things is basically the BEST source you will find here in the States (guaranteed)!!! Now, because ND agreements, that's about all I can say. 

I really appreciate your views on this. Like I said, if you are interested in pursueing a career in this some day, contact me and I will see what we have available. Sounds like you have some good knowledge in this field! Go Huskies!!!


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## bigcountrysg (Oct 9, 2006)

How a Performance Chip Works. What a Performance Chip does is change the output settings of the computer. It does this by changing the fuel/air mixture so you run richer. All that black smoke you see out of Diesel Engines is extra fuel being dumped in the cylinder. Which in return gives you more power. Now a chip you add to your PCM or the computer of the vehicle. Performance Chips have been around since the mid 80's. 

Now a Tuner, as in Super Chips Tuner, Hypertech tuner, DP Tuner, and many other companies out there. What they do is change the actual programming of the PCM. Basically what they do is erase the stock programming of the computer and then down load the performance settings into the computer of the vehicle. 

They both do the basic samething to the vehicle add more HP and Torq. But in different ways. Some trucks can not use a chip. As in the 6.0L Powerstroke you can not add a chip to it you have to use a Tuner. The new 6.4L Powerstroke can not use a chip it has you need a tuner for it. 

Now I do not know what the duramax, or cummins use. I know the older Cummins diesels used a chip. I know the old 6.5L and 6.2L gm diesels you turned up the fuel pump. The samething on the old Cummins you would turn up the fuel pump. 

Now life of the engine. Does a Chip or Tuner cause premature damage to an engine. Yes and No, if you do not watch your EGT's or Boost and they get to high then yes you can cause damage to an engine. Is there a way to prevent this damage yes there is. On a 6.0L powerstroke you can change the headbolts which like to stretch when you run high psi from the turbo. You can get ARP head studs which are stronger and do not stretch very easily. Again I do not know what you can do to the Duramax or Cummins to prevent premature engine damage. 

Transmissions you can upgrade the Torq COnverters, Valve Bodies, and the clutch packs inside the transmissions. That will create longer life out of the transmission. 

I have a 2002 F-250 7.3L powerstroke. I am running around 400hp and around 400 ft of torq. I am running an upgraded trans with all suncoast parts in. I have a suncoast triple disc converter, sun coast valve body, sun coast clutch packs. I have 150,000 miles on my truck and it still runs strong. Uses no oil between oil changes and I am out there doing sled pulls and tug o wars and work with my truck. I have been running the modifications on my truck for about 60-70,000 miles. 

If I was you I would join a Forum that is about your truck and talk to them guys as they will know what works the best for your truck and how to prevent premature damage to your truck.


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## SalmonBum (Feb 28, 2001)

My Edge unit is an "all in one" package. It as adjustable power levels on the fly, full set of gauges, and built in safty features to defuel if certain paramaters are maxed out. Most programmer style chips (like hypertech, predator, superchips) reflash the ecm with the power level you pick. You wanna change it, you gotta pull over and go thru the sequence. I just push a button. The Edge leaves the ECM progam in place, but grabs the info on the way to the motor and modifys.

If you do wanna play hard, the Ally is, by far the toughest Tranny out there. A buddy leaves his Edge on 125 hp all tehe time and the tranny is still stock after 65k. Most of my buddies that have fords have all had their trannys redone, even after adding only 40 hp. The Ally is Tough, but can break. If you want to hold serious HP,$3500 can get you a Suncost Level 3 installed. If your gonna start stacking chips, adding drugs, etc.... then you'll need the Level 4 or 5. 

BTW, There was a guy here last week that had a newer Cummin's that was laying down 900hp @ the rear wheels, on a dyno. This is all on No.2, no Nitrous, propane, meth. To hold the power, he had $14k in the tranny alone. 11.2 in the 1/4 mile, and this is done on 38" tires.


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## explodingvarmints (Jul 1, 2004)

I run a TS performance in my 06 6.0 stroker with pretty impressive gains. I also had an 02 duramax that I ran a Bullydog Dyno Dominator in.... I would stay away from bullyDog next time. Visit my brother in laws on online business (he's a desiel Engineer @ Ford) www.d2highperformance.com He's in Chesterfield and will install it for you.


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## 4x4_Hunter (Jan 2, 2002)

Hey Explo...

Don't know if it's just my computer or not, but that link doesn't work for me. Can you verify it please and let me know if that is correct or not? Also, what was it that you didn't like about the Bully Dog?


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## bklompy (Apr 6, 2005)

I have a 2007 classic C/C S/B 2500HD I run the edge juice with attitude usually setting 2 or 3 did not need an intake upgrade or exaust upgrade the stock ones on 06 and 07 breathe pretty well the best place for info is the dieselplace.com find everything you need to know for real people who actually know


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## clc900 (Jul 19, 2005)

DROPTINE
on my 98 ram i had twin turbos said:


> Thats some funny stuff right there! :lol:


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