# Roof replacement time



## bobberbill (Apr 5, 2011)

I need to have a small roof -18 square- roof replaced. I have another rancher that belongs to my mom / family with attached garage that also needs a roof. Our neighbors just had a roof put on last week and the guys did a nice job. All I need is a single story tear off and re-shingle. My son in the Det area has gotten quotes for his house but they're all over the place. UPSELL on everything. It's easy to find out what materials cost, but the question: What's the reasonable number per square for a single story redo..


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

~$250/sq


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

If they are licensed and insured it’s more like 300 a sq. 


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## bobberbill (Apr 5, 2011)

I'm supposed to be getting a quote, but it's been a week. I'd do it myself, but getting to old to handle it alone. I'd rather fish and golf and come home to it all done.


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## spartannation (Jan 14, 2016)

ESOX is right on the money. I usually get 300.00 a square for all materials, labor, clean up and removal of debris. Make sure they quote ice and water to meet code, synthetic underlayment and ridge vent


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## Ricky Missum (Jan 10, 2003)

Found the thread I was looking for!!! Just got a quote yesterday from the folks who did the house next door over the weekend, $275 a square. I have seamless gutters and a peak to peak ridge vent (40ft) from when I did complete roof in 97' so I'm good to go on that. I have the cathedral ceilings, and one side of the house, I have no way to get between the ceiling and roof to insulate, nor do I know what is even in that area. When I told the contractor I wanted to insulate that area as much as possible, which he said he would remove the plywood and install r30. I figured blow in installation, but he advised against it???? I also have a covered patio, but he said he would lay new shingles on that, at no extra cost. He figured about 25 to 27 sq. and they were going to lunch, and I didn't want to hold them up. When I had it done in 97' all new plywood, 20yr shingles, and the ridge vent=5k. He knocked off 500.00 if I paid him in cash, which i did. Right after he did the roof, I hired a seamless gutter contractor, it was under 300.00. I know price on labor and material has gone up in 21 yrs. and I want to get more quotes, but I got a feeling this guy might be hard to pass on. Did a great job on the house next door and had it done in 2 days.


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## Ricky Missum (Jan 10, 2003)

Bobber bill, mine is a single story ranch with a covered car port


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## bobberbill (Apr 5, 2011)

Been a week. Doubt if I'll hear from them.. My house is on a hill at the lake. When the guys did the neighbors there was a lot of bichin about having to do the tear off and carry everything up the hill. They had to carry all the materials down, too. Not far, but not a drive up. My house is the same. Just think the guys don't want to work that hard. 250-300 seems like a fair number for what's involved.


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## -Axiom- (Jul 24, 2010)

bobberbill said:


> Been a week. Doubt if I'll hear from them.. My house is on a hill at the lake. When the guys did the neighbors there was a lot of bichin about having to do the tear off and carry everything up the hill. They had to carry all the materials down, too. Not far, but not a drive up. My house is the same. Just think the guys don't want to work that hard. 250-300 seems like a fair number for what's involved.



If there is poor access it is going to cost more for sure, it makes the job take 2x as long.

A lot of these guys don't even want to hand drive a nail much less carry shingles any farther than they have to.


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## reddog1 (Jan 24, 2009)

Call Jimmy Byrum at Byrum builders. Very professional, honest, and they do a top notch job. Did my roof about 5 years ago. Very reasonable.


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## whitetail&walleye (Dec 13, 2017)

Looks like he left a couple pieces of siding undone when he replaced the wall flashing.

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## nothbound (Dec 22, 2016)

I'm typically bidding 325 a square on simular to your described assuming it's a walkable pitch. 

Remember ridge vent only works with vented soffit. Roofers that through ridge vent on every house without checking attic venting situation are not only voiding the Shingle warranties but also breaking code. 
Nothing wrong with gable end vents or turtle vents when situation calls for it. 

Everyone uses synthetic felt underlayment now days. Many are junk. Ask which felt he uses will gauge how much he cares about quality products.


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## bobberbill (Apr 5, 2011)

Finally got a quote. Figures to 325$ / square. Home Depot Timberline shingles, 6' of ice shield, new drip edge, ridge vent, tear off and cleanup.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

bobberbill said:


> Finally got a quote. Figures to 325$ / square. Home Depot Timberline shingles, 6' of ice shield, new drip edge, ridge vent, tear off and cleanup.


No Timberlines. Absollute garbage these days. So thin they weigh under 200# a square. For that kind of money you can get Certainteed or some other heavier shingle. 
Check out your local roofing supply. 
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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

If a roofer is buying his shingles at Home Depot I would have to question his professionalism. Anyone can walk into any roofing supply house, or good lumber yard for that matter, and come out with higher quality than Home Depot or Lowes for 25% less. The big bog stores are only cheap on advertised specials. I just got done with the same type of thing with a garage door. The local door company was 900 dollars cheaper on a high end door than Lowes or Home Depot. The local door company is in a pole barn but when you talk to the guy he knows doors! It would of been cheaper to buy a top end door from the door company installed than cash and carry at the big box stores.


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## bobberbill (Apr 5, 2011)

My local choices are Hd or Menard's.. We don't have a local roofing supply in this small town. I just sent a request to another local contractor for a quote, and some additional work that my wife wants done. I can buy Hd's at 20$ a bundle.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

https://www.schultzroofingsupply.com/suppliers/

https://www.abcsupply.com/locations/location?BranchNumber=200

These guys would be my first choice. Everyone I have met from there were great people:
http://www.eikenhout.com/kalamazoo-mi-building-supplies.php


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## spartannation (Jan 14, 2016)

Take a serious look at BP brand shingles. You won't be sorry.


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## spartannation (Jan 14, 2016)

Fox Brothers in GR can help you out, too


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## nothbound (Dec 22, 2016)

I'm a owens corning installer, my preference anyways. We pay more to buy from abc than menards charges on sale but the customer service is worth every penny. I cringe when customers want to buy their own stuff at menards, mostly since I know the delivery will be messed up in some way or another


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

spartannation said:


> Take a serious look at BP brand shingles. You won't be sorry.


Love BP's. Thats whats on my house (I have the Manoirs, but the Everests are the more common dimensional look, and excellent shingles), but I don't think anyone over on that side of the state has them.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

nothbound said:


> I'm a owens corning installer, my preference anyways. We pay more to buy from abc than menards charges on sale but the customer service is worth every penny. I cringe when customers want to buy their own stuff at menards, mostly since I know the delivery will be messed up in some way or another


OC's are OK, still on the light side. about 215# a square for Oakridge, slightly less for Durations. BP and IKO's are true 240#. Certainteeds are still hefty, but I haven't seen a bill of lading to see where Landmarks are exactly lately.


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## nothbound (Dec 22, 2016)

Your the second guy I've heard say Oakridge weigh more than durations lately. I actuall just ran out to the barn to check this. Duration is the higher end of average shingles. Plus the better wind rating (sure nail strip acts like a washer under the nails) 
Oakridge 71lbs
Duration 74 lbs
Landmarks where full of ice so I didn't bother. 

We used to do many iko. Decent Shingle but stupid packaging methods so they don't lay flat fast enough. Was sick of wind catching them before they settled down. 

Certainteed- we do about 20 houses a year with those, due to customer request. decent Shingle and fair price 79/square. However I constantly replace 8 to 12 year old roofs by certainteed. Most are on steep roofs and delaminate already. 

What's this BP you speak of?


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## spartannation (Jan 14, 2016)

Fox Brothers sells BP. Byron Center and Portage as well as Lansing. Only shingle I will lay and less than 75.00 a square, delivered.


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## bobberbill (Apr 5, 2011)

Portage is 25 mi away. Good info from all you guys.. Tks, bb


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## bobberbill (Apr 5, 2011)

Not familiar with BP shingles.. Brand name, or abbreviation..


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

BP= Building Products of Canada

Dreamroofs.com

Thery aren't a big box shingle. All of my biggest customers loved them. Consistent quality, two lines of sealant.




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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

nothbound said:


> Your the second guy I've heard say Oakridge weigh more than durations lately. I actuall just ran out to the barn to check this. Duration is the higher end of average shingles. Plus the better wind rating (sure nail strip acts like a washer under the nails)
> Oakridge 71lbs
> Duration 74 lbs
> Landmarks where full of ice so I didn't bother.
> ...


Weighing one bundle is not an accurate gauge of weight. As you pointed out, water and other factors can easily change the weight of individual bundles. I am going straight off the bills of lading for truck loads. Net weight/ number of bundles. 

41,535/(13sq per pallet×3bundles per square×15pallets per truck ) 

That gives a much more accurate representation. Durations are just a sales gimmick that allows for sloppy nail placement, with its funky ungranulated, wide "nail strip" I remember when the OC rep came in to introduce them about 15 yrs ago or so. They were giddy to come up with a new sales pitch for direct sales to homeowners. 
Owens Corning came out with them to captivate the weekend warriors who buy from box stores. Because God knows, properly nailing shingles is hard.  

Not saying OC are bad, they just seem to prefer to direct their marketing efforts at markets other than the professional contractor. Makes it easy for a contractor to sell them to a homeowner though, with the consumer brand recognition the Pink Panther has. 

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## excal (Feb 11, 2012)

Years ago you could expect any shingle roof to last 25 years. Now you are lucky to get 15 years before they fail. Metal roofing is becoming more common and the prices are starting to come down as more company's are installing them. All the shingle warranties are pro rated,and you must buy there product again. The biggest cost is the labor even if they replaced the shingles. Metal roofing will take over like rubber roofing replaced hot tar roofing.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

excal said:


> Years ago you could expect any shingle roof to last 25 years. Now you are lucky to get 15 years before they fail. Metal roofing is becoming more common and the prices are starting to come down as more company's are installing them. All the shingle warranties are pro rated,and you must buy there product again. The biggest cost is the labor even if they replaced the shingles. Metal roofing will take over like rubber roofing replaced hot tar roofing.


Agreed. I almost put a standing seam on this house, but the roof would have been worth more than the house, and it's getting on time to move northward, youngest kid is out of HS school next year, and as of January I'm out of the roofing supply business. 38 years was a good enough run. I'm still not sold on metal shingles for pitches under 6/12. Just not enough headlap,and the hollow behind them can be loud in a driving rain. But a standing seam lays flat on the deck of a solid sheathed roof. Nice and quiet. Another newer product I like is the synthetic shakes and slates, but daaaaang are they expensive.

BTW the diminishing weights of shingles and the tightness of newer homes both contributed to the loss of longevity of asphalt shingles these days. Thats why I like BP and IKO, they haven't lightened up their shingles. Proper ventilation is imperative.


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## -Axiom- (Jul 24, 2010)

ESOX said:


> Agreed. I almost put a standing seam on this house, but the roof would have been worth more than the house, and it's getting on time to move northward, youngest kid is out of HS school next year, and as of January I'm out of the roofing supply business. 38 years was a good enough run. I'm still not sold on metal shingles for pitches under 6/12. Just not enough headlap,and the hollow behind them can be loud in a driving rain. But a standing seam lays flat on the deck of a solid sheathed roof. Nice and quiet. Another newer product I like is the synthetic shakes and slates, but daaaaang are they expensive.
> 
> BTW the diminishing weights of shingles and the tightness of newer homes both contributed to the loss of longevity of asphalt shingles these days. Thats why I like BP and IKO, they haven't lightened up their shingles. Proper ventilation is imperative.



Certainteed & Malarkey haven't compromised their products, a standard Landmark still comes in at 240 lbs/sq and the Malarkey Vista is about the same.

In 30 yrs of roofing Timberlines have been low quality crap the entire time, IMO IKO's are better.

I've only used BP 1 time and they were 3-tabs a long time ago.

Eikenhout inc serves the entire state and they carry Malarkey & Certainteed products.


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## zfishman (Dec 21, 2008)

nothbound said:


> I'm typically bidding 325 a square on simular to your described assuming it's a walkable pitch.
> 
> Remember ridge vent only works with vented soffit. Roofers that through ridge vent on every house without checking attic venting situation are not only voiding the Shingle warranties but also breaking code.
> Nothing wrong with gable end vents or turtle vents when situation calls for it.
> ...


What are the quality underlayments a person should be looking for? Thanks.


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## -Axiom- (Jul 24, 2010)

zfishman said:


> What are the quality underlayments a person should be looking for? Thanks.


If they are going to tear it off and shingle it any of the synthetics will be fine, even the cheapest.

The most important thing is that the synthetics need to be fastened with plastic cap nails/staples, you will find that many if not most just use regular staples.

A quality oriented install would properly fasten the underlayment and *would not* use roll style ridge vent.

For ridge vent you want one of the 4' sectional shingle over type, these need to be hand nailed with 2 1/2" or better roofing nails.

The reason you don't want the roll style vent is because it has ~40% less free area to exhaust because it is made to be installed with a nail gun.

Require these 2 simple things and you will get a better installer in general.


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