# Roofing when wet?



## buckslayerII

O/C is OK in that it's fairly priced, or in that it works OK. Hate to save a few $$'s and sacrifice performance. Haven't seen ALCO as an option.


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## ESOX

buckslayerII said:


> O/C is OK in that it's fairly priced, or in that it works OK. Hate to save a few $$'s and sacrifice performance. Haven't seen ALCO as an option.


O/C is OK in both respects. I think it too is over priced. I sell a 2 square roll of ALCO, which is ecvery bit as good if not better for $49.95. A good part of the reason for ALCO's price advantage is freight, being made locally. On products like Ice & Water, Lumber etc, transportation is a good 30% of the cost


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## SWAT Hunter

ESOX said:


> Grace is good, but way over priced. O/C is OK. I prefer to sell ALCO, great product and it's made in Michigan.


ALCO is the best and cheepiest brand out there right now... Installers love to use it and builders like to buy it. GRACE is way over priced and Installers hate to use it. Only one selling grace is the companies that have salesman.

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## buckslayerII

Thanks guys - just talked to ALCO and they have no local distributors in northern MI, so using that is out. Suppose I'll stick with O/C.


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## -Axiom-

Grace is far superior to any Ice & water shield product on the market.
No other product is in the same league as Grace.
The closest that comes to mind is Winterguard HT from Certainteed.

Alco shield or whatever they call that crap is complete and utter garbage.

* If you have ice damming issues you need to address the causes of the ice damming.
It doesn't matter which ice & water shield you use over chronic ice damming areas, as soon as the fasteners rust out it will leak.*

If you have ice damming issues that you cannot correct or choose not to correct you definitely want the Grace product.
In addition to the Grace product you will want to use at a bare minimum of hot dipped galvanized nails over these ice damming areas.
The electro galvanized coil nails that are commonly used for roofing are entirely inadequate for use over ice damming areas.
You can buy quality hot dipped galvanized coil nails from Maze.


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## Steve

What about PermaFelt?


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## SWAT Hunter

It hasn't been used long enough for me to give my honest opinion. I do like that it covers more sq when applied but that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. I am curious too.

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## -Axiom-

Steve said:


> What about PermaFelt?


It's just another one of the synthetic underlayments available, not much different from the rest on the market.
In other words, it's good stuff but usually overkill for it's intended purpose.


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## popy

Always hated when people decided to wait until November to roof their house, " gotta get it in before the snow flies" attitude. Rain is always a factor every other day. He may be talking about cap nails, which is what I used. Don't let him slit the paper were it wrinkled or bubbled, he sounds like the type that would. The wrinkles will show.


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## buckslayerII

Thanks again for the opinions/experience guys. There will be no traditional paper. It'll be OC Ice&Water and then synthetic.

The garage will have one run of I&W and then synthetic. I've requested two runs on the house. It's a 12/12 pitch, which leaves quite a bit of unheated eave. With the cathedral ceilings in the upstairs, keeping heat from working through is tough, and I do get minimal damming. Insulation baffles were installed to hold the insulation away from the roof decking. However, there is obviously no air space included where the drywall attaches to the rafters and the roof decking to the rafters. I'd appreciate any ideas on how to remedy that fellas. My current thought is to do more insulation against the upstairs drywall, build out with 2x4's and then add T&G pine or something on the inside to creat a "new" ceiling on the cathedral parts. Only about 4' of ceiling is cathedral upstairs, with that running into a ceiling, which leaves the attic open and vented. Is there a problem with "burying" drywall inside a "built-up" ceiling like I'm thinking?

As for timing, I told him the first week in September to go ahead and do the job. Not sure why he waited through about 6 weeks of perfectly dry, unseasonably warm weather ?!?!?!?!!??!?!? He's looking at a 3-day window towards the end of the week. Should I just tell him to hold off until spring now? It's not a dire situation.


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## HunterZ

I wonder what the other differences are between the Ice and Water products (Waterproofing underlayment) are since the price is different?
CertainTeed has a warranty in writing that states it will stay STUCK to the deck and WATER TIGHT for the life of the shingle applied over it up to 50 years.
I can't seem to find a grace warranty?
What is ALCO's or OC's.
Will they just replace the roll if it leeks in the first few years? Lots of help that would be.


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## SWAT Hunter

Different manufactures have different warranties all of which are pro-rated. Meaning the longer they last the less you will get if it fails within the warranty. 
Also, GAF offers a warranty that will backup a roofing companies warranty usually 5 yrs to a 30yr if you use all GAF materials including ice&water, felt and shingles but it does cost more. The same goes for certainteed. 
Note: insulation and ventilation will void all warranties if not inspected throughly.


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## SWAT Hunter

HunterZ said:


> I wonder what the other differences are between the Ice and Water products (Waterproofing underlayment) are since the price is different?
> CertainTeed has a warranty in writing that states it will stay STUCK to the deck and WATER TIGHT for the life of the shingle applied over it up to 50 years.
> I can't seem to find a grace warranty?
> What is ALCO's or OC's.
> Will they just replace the roll if it leeks in the first few years? Lots of help that would be.


ALCO is just an ice and water shield that will meet code it does not make an area of roof that can not be shingled (such as a 2/12 pitch roof) better. It does help prevent damage but a low slope or flat roof needs to be treated as such. There are different problems on different houses and all should be handled by a professional.


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## buckslayerII

As far as synthetic underlayment, any opinions on the Titanium line by Interwrap?

If rain isn't an issue, is temperatures in the 40-50 range? Will the ice&water seal to itself?


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