# zone 2 hypothetical



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

does any zone 2 or fish pointers have a problem with this layout...just for hypothetical purposes.


move entire bay into zone 2 along with shiawassee state game area
sept. 24th - sept. 30th
split
oct. 15nd - december 7th

as you can see the split is front loaded and you retain a week into december.

if it were a 30 day shortened season you could move that split to thanksgiving like it was in past.


----------



## Mike L (Sep 8, 2003)

Yep ! Waaaaay to early !! Birds need all the time they can get to
color up. Lot's and lots of rookie's hunt the Saginaw bay marsh and FP
in particular. You as well as I know that it's too warm during that time period,
even the tennis shoe duck chasers don't like that.........

And front loading the split hurts the newbie.......there's lots of ducks here
at that time period.


----------



## Duckman Racing (Oct 11, 2004)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> does any zone 2 or fish pointers have a problem with this layout...just for hypothetical purposes.
> 
> 
> move entire bay into zone 2 along with shiawassee state game area
> ...


I would love to see this happen.


----------



## hunting man (Mar 2, 2005)

Make for great pictures of brown ducks.


----------



## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

I couldn't support that. Anything after Thanksgiving is borrowed time for 95% of zone 2 hunters. We get 2 warm years back to back and suddenly everyone forgets what "normal" is.

Guess no one remembers when we tried this 4-5 years ago and were frozen out the 3rd week in November.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

sorry, can't use color of ducks to determine seasons guys. if this was the case, we shouldn't open season in the UP or any other state this early (many open on this date). c'mon...gimme a real reason.

also, how would you shoot teal or wood ducks (early teal season) that everyone is screaming about? 

mike: you hunt fish point, we all know that. whats your ideal dates since i haven't seen you like one idea yet. you don't want moved into zone 2, you don't want an early split (although the late split is completely useless to you) and you freeze out a week before us at shiawassee so i dont understand you wanting such a late finish date?

this idea moves you to zone 2 but gives you 2010's season dates with a front loaded split. That split is teal, redhead and wood duck friendly. theres just as many brown mallards on sept 25th as there is at oct 1st or 7th. using color is a terribly weak argument.


----------



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

KLR said:


> I couldn't support that. Anything after Thanksgiving is borrowed time for 95% of zone 2 hunters. We get 2 warm years back to back and suddenly everyone forgets what "normal" is.
> 
> Guess no one remembers when we tried this 4-5 years ago and were frozen out the 3rd week in November.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


see dahmer...


----------



## lang49 (Aug 1, 2005)

I can't support this plan. It doesn't go anywhere near late enough.

I remember when we had a split in zone 2 several years ago and it made so much more sense than what we had this year. 

Zone 2:

Oct 1st to 9th
Oct 22nd to Dec 11th

This is the best of early and late hunting in my view. If you look for it, there is plenty of open water in zone 2 year around that holds lots of birds well after early December. The last two years, there were very few migratory birds in central zone 2 before Oct 20th. No point in wasting days that could be saved until the migration actually arrives.


----------



## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> see dahmer...


see dahmer for what....he hunts zone 3.

I'd guess if your MO is to cut out of MI during the middle of our season, those dates would work just fine
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Dahmer said:


> As stated before the 2 days in Jan. a waste. I would be open to moving the bay to zone 2 if the end of season was the 1st weekend in December. Haven't been froze out in the last 5 years with that end date.


^^ posted by dahmer earlier


----------



## Mike L (Sep 8, 2003)

KLR said:


> see dahmer for what....he hunts zone 3.
> 
> I'd guess if your MO is to cut out of MI during the middle of our season, those dates would work just fine
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your PM box is full..............


----------



## wavie (Feb 2, 2004)

lang49 said:


> The last two years, there were very few migratory birds in central zone 2 before Oct 20th. No point in wasting days that could be saved until the migration actually arrives.


Migration would be dependant on Mother Nature (more so puddlers than divers), hard to control that factor. Couple of years of early freeze up would have most screaming bloody murder. Brown ducks, blue ducks, white ducks, shouldnt really matter.


----------



## Mike L (Sep 8, 2003)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> sorry, can't use color of ducks to determine seasons guys. if this was the case, we shouldn't open season in the UP or any other state this early (many open on this date). c'mon...gimme a real reason.
> 
> also, how would you shoot teal or wood ducks (early teal season) that everyone is screaming about?
> 
> ...


I've already made my dates known, "Many" times....this years date's
are/were *Perfect* they serve the young guns that don't know anything and the older guy that likes the late big fat greeners and the diver guys as well. To be totally honest I wouldn't change a thing !
The later finishing date is for FIELD MALLARDS. In the first week of Dec this year there was 13,000 ducks here at FP and that's only at the refuge.
I have no problem going into zone 2 *If the zone kept the dates zone 3 did this year*......But there's some major whiners over on the west side of the bay that frequent Nayanquing point that are making waves about an earlier opener. So those "Big Money" minority people are trying to screw up the rest of us guys on the bay so they can shoot a few more teal and woody's.

There's a "Lot" of corn field hunting out in the thumb at the end of the season....A LOT

And as far as color ? I do not agree that it's week. I see waaaay to many young birds floating as it is.
Plus a week earlier puts the bow hunters AND duck hunters in the Saginaw bay marsh at the same time.
If ! You could see just how many hunt able ducks are here at the end of the season you would feel
exactly how I do.

Hey ! I'm all about a teal woody smack down, but this zone thing just isn't about ME ! It's for the majority.
And I believe the MAJORITY of the guys/gals that frequent FP and hunt the open waters of Saginaw bay
liked the dates the way they were this year. I've NEVER seen so many people hunt FP this late in the season as I did this year. There's simply more guys out there..... on the EAST side


----------



## lang49 (Aug 1, 2005)

wavie said:


> Migration would be dependant on Mother Nature (more so puddlers than divers), hard to control that factor. Couple of years of early freeze up would have most screaming bloody murder. Brown ducks, blue ducks, white ducks, shouldnt really matter.


If it doesn't matter than zone 2 hunters should have no problem hunting a little later. :evilsmile


----------



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

lang49 said:


> If it doesn't matter than zone 2 hunters should have no problem hunting a little later. :evilsmile


ok its one thing for zone 3 guys to want 2 weeks into december or even later....but to complain about zone 2 guys wanting 2 weeks into december...your grasping at straws. 90% of zone 2 hunting is done on the bay...and as much as i would love to accommodate you in mesick or northwest late river hunting....its just not gonna happen. I envy your ability to get birds that late in zone 2 but you gotta be honest with yourself and realize 90% of the rest of your zone is locked tight and birds are gone.


----------



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Mike L said:


> I've already made my dates known, "Many" times....this years date's
> are/were *Perfect* they serve the young guns that don't know anything and the older guy that likes the late big fat greeners and the diver guys as well. To be totally honest I wouldn't change a thing !
> The later finishing date is for FIELD MALLARDS. In the first week of Dec this year there was 13,000 ducks here at FP and that's only at the refuge.
> I have no problem going into zone 2 *If the zone kept the dates zone 3 did this year*......But there's some major whiners over on the west side of the bay that frequent Nayanquing point that are making waves about an earlier opener. So those "Big Money" minority people are trying to screw up the rest of us guys on the bay so they can shoot a few more teal and woody's.
> ...


relook at those dates mike. you get the same dates with a split on the front. would you feel better with oct1-6 then reopen on the 15th? the goal here is zone 2 to pickup our current zone 3 dates and keep a usable split.

some of you disagreeing with this are stating facts that support it.


----------



## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> ^^ posted by dahmer earlier


yes..that is the bay, not zone 2. 

I was frozen out in zone two this year at Thanksgiving...fortunate enough to have access to a open creek for the "split" in z2 this year and that was nearly frozen closed by Sunday and it was completely by Monday.

In your suggested season the current zone 2 loses at a minimum 2 weeks of hunting (1 to the split, at least one to ice)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cornfieldbill (Jun 6, 2009)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> does any zone 2 or fish pointers have a problem with this layout...just for hypothetical purposes.
> 
> 
> move entire bay into zone 2 along with shiawassee state game area
> ...


I check my duck book that I started in 1965 . Can only find 8 times we were still hunting the bay in late November .Most of the time we were ice out by Thankgiving. I do not get the split the best hunting on the bay is in October last to weeks........................:evilsmile


----------



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

cornfieldbill said:


> I check my duck book that I started in 1965 . Can only find 8 times we were still hunting the bay in late November .Most of the time we were ice out by Thankgiving. I do not get the split the best hunting on the bay is in October last to weeks........................:evilsmile


k thats what i was looking for, thanks cfb. just looking to see opinions. we talked about quite a few options last night and one of them was moving srsga into zone 2.


----------



## MCMANN (Jan 13, 2010)

the season dates are good leave them alone

as far as a teal and wood duck season that is a very bad idea people cant tell what kind of birds they are shooting at in nov let alone a early season MI has to many other ducks around to support a teal season 

yes on some yrs it would be great to go into dec later but on most years alot of water is froze in many areas 

again as i stated many of times with the spinner debate why does a small group of 20-30 people get to decide what the rest of the states hunters have to do this website is a very small amount of MI hunters 
many of the hunters have never even heard of this site

mike


----------



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

KLR said:


> yes..that is the bay, not zone 2.
> 
> I was frozen out in zone two this year at Thanksgiving...fortunate enough to have access to a open creek for the "split" in z2 this year and that was nearly frozen closed by Sunday and it was completely by Monday.
> 
> ...


yeah i understand that. i was looking for something zone 2 would work for everyone (i know, impossible). if zone 2 can be setup to accomodate srsga and bay together, it would free up zone 3 to go later as the biggest hold up on a later zone 3 date is the bay and us.


----------



## mydogisscout (Jun 24, 2005)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> ok its one thing for zone 3 guys to want 2 weeks into december or even later....but to complain about zone 2 guys wanting 2 weeks into december...your grasping at straws. 90% of zone 2 hunting is done on the bay...and as much as i would love to accommodate you in mesick or northwest late river hunting....its just not gonna happen. I envy your ability to get birds that late in zone 2 but you gotta be honest with yourself and realize 90% of the rest of your zone is locked tight and birds are gone.


if 90% is done on the bay, then leave it alone. most of the bay is considered zone 3 anyway. as far as complaining, your talking about moving a zone 3 area (2 of them) into zone 2 that's what guys don't like.


----------



## The Doob (Mar 4, 2007)

I appreciate what the "Kid" is saying but if we play with the boundaries a little, maybe we can be a little more accomodating. I'll start by saying that I prefer the bay be in zone 2 because as conrfieldbill states, my records indicate that freeze up costs us, more times than not. That being said, I can understand the field hunters wanting to go later. Soooo, what if the 2-3 boundary was M-25 from I-75 to Unionville road and then BCF all the way to Lake Huron (I won't post an opinion on the boundary heading westward because I don't have a clue).

This keeps the water guys happy, the Fish Point guys know that if the Bay is frozen, so are they and all the feed around the refuge has been long gone. Then the mallards head south into the fields south of M-25 where the season would, theoretically still be open (depending on the zone 3 dates). This also allows the zone 3 guys to have whatever split works best for them and the St. Clair guys aren't being punished to make the Saginaw Bay guys happy. It's just a thought


----------



## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> yeah i understand that. i was looking for something zone 2 would work for everyone (i know, impossible). if zone 2 can be setup to accomodate srsga and bay together, it would free up zone 3 to go later as the biggest hold up on a later zone 3 date is the bay and us.


If that's what you're after, then you'd have to bring the zone one line farther south...somewhere around HL maybe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

MCMANN said:


> the season dates are good leave them alone
> 
> as far as a teal and wood duck season that is a very bad idea people cant tell what kind of birds they are shooting at in nov let alone a early season MI has to many other ducks around to support a teal season
> 
> ...


christ mike, gimme a break with it. this was me tossing around ideas. sfcha discussion last night was about us and our cwac rep and a lot of ideas were talked about...its what we do for our area. sorry that i make a post tossing around one of my ideas. Our recommendation to OUR cwac rep was to keep the dates the same.

yeah keep bringing up the spinner debate like i infringed on "your" hunting areas that you've never set foot in. thanks for your input, helps the post out. next time read "hypothetical" in post topic.


----------



## cornfieldbill (Jun 6, 2009)

MCMANN said:


> the season dates are good leave them alone
> 
> as far as a teal and wood duck season that is a very bad idea people cant tell what kind of birds they are shooting at in nov let alone a early season MI has to many other ducks around to support a teal season
> 
> ...


 I hunted the early teal seasons back end the day. If you can't tell a teal from other ducks. I would say you need to stop hunting!!! Yes a small group of people should not decide for us. A hunter in the U P does not want the same thing as one in MoTown.:help:


----------



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

KLR said:


> If that's what you're after, then you'd have to bring the zone one line farther south...somewhere around HL maybe.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


interesting idea.

again this is type of stuff was looking for, just ideas and thinking outside the box to find some other options.


----------



## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

MCMANN said:


> ...again as i stated many of times with the spinner debate why does a small group of 20-30 people get to decide what the rest of the states hunters have to do this website is a very small amount of MI hunters many of the hunters have never even heard of this site
> 
> mike


OH PUUUUULLEEEEAAASE! :banghead3 Don't start this again! The discussion on the website here is only a tiny bit of this discussion. The DNRE issued the letter asking for input to the entire CWAC, which supposedly represents ALL waterfowlers (the DNRE's words...not mine), whether they spend time on the internet, read papers, just show up at the drawings or in the marshes, or hide in some hole somewhere. So *ALL *waterfowlers are being asked for input through the chain that is in place. It's been said before in numerous threads in the last few days about the zone change topic...If you have an opinion, contact your CWAC representative. If you aren't part of an organization, it's likely an "at large" CWAC member, who supposedly represent those who are not part of a group. If you aren't sure who you're CWAC rep is, here's the list 

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/WLD_CWAC_Committee_List_2010_330313_7.pdf

So please spare us the tired old argument about 20-30 people sitting in a room making decisions for everyone. You have until the end of February to voice your opinion. Would you like a CWAC member to come knock on your door and fill out a survey form for you? I can probably arrange that if you like. Just give us your address, and I'm make sure you get a PERSONAL opportunity


----------



## MCMANN (Jan 13, 2010)

this is a pissing match just my opionion on things you asked for opionions and i gave you mine 

mike

bill 
how are things going with you ? hope all is well hope to see you this fall


----------



## Mike L (Sep 8, 2003)

Ok ! For the sake of discussion......Use M-46 as a dividing line for 2&3 all the way across the state...exact line on the west would be varing just a tad so as to not screw up anything over there. Not splitting an area in half.

With an opening date in zone 2 the same as zone 3 was this year. In other words the second week in Oct. run 60 days then shut down, put the split the week-end following the close.
Create a "New" zone 3 per say, opening the third week in Oct and run it out.
With there split the week-end following the new zone 3 closer.

*If* what I hear is true...about an early teal season in the works !
Then ! The boys on the west side will/would be happy to have there early
teal season hunting. They would just have to wait a year or two.
There ! Three zones with splits.....It will not make everyone happy, but IMO the Majority will be served, including the minority SW Mi hunters.


----------



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Mike L said:


> Ok ! For the sake of discussion......Use M-46 as a dividing line for 2&3 all the way across the state...exact line on the west would be varing just a tad so as to not screw up anything over there. Not splitting an area in half.
> 
> With an opening date in zone 2 the same as zone 3 was this year. In other words the second week in Oct. run 60 days then shut down, put the split the week-end following the close.
> Create a "New" zone 3 per say, opening the third week in Oct and run it out.
> ...


yes mike, this was the discussion we took. we obviously have no issues moving into zone 2 if we kept the same dates or similar....finding a useful split for zone 2 would be a bonus....and preferrably one that wasn't a freeze out. This option frees up zone 3 to do whatever they wanted with end dates and late split.


----------



## waterfowlhunter83 (Aug 10, 2005)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> yeah i understand that. i was looking for something zone 2 would work for everyone (i know, impossible). if zone 2 can be setup to accomodate srsga and bay together, it would free up zone 3 to go later as the biggest hold up on a later zone 3 date is the bay and us.


Kid,

I want to say thank you as a west side hunter that you are willing to talk about putting the Bay/SRSGA into zone 2, not only to benefit you guys (I think you guys in that area have similar interest with regards to seasons) but zone 3 guys a chance to possibly set a season more beneficial for us. In talking w/ my CWAC rep last night, I think we need to look what is going to benefit everyone. Is it best served that the Bay and SRSGA are in zone 3? Maybe, maybe not? But people need to be willing to talk about it and have discussions on it. Everyone needs to remember that this first CWAC meeting this year is to ONLY talk about number of zones and zone boundaries (NOT SEASON DATES). Seasons dates come later in the year and there is plenty of time to talk about those and find some common ground with regards to season dates. I would just encourage everyone to take a step back and look at the big picture here and just think about the boundary lines first before we think about specific season dates.


Chad


----------



## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> interesting idea.
> 
> again this is type of stuff was looking for, just ideas and thinking outside the box to find some other options.


It has always seemed goofy to me that z1 was UP only...bring it south to Grayling (M72)....I strongly doubt you'll affect too many z2 hunters N of there by moving them to z1 and cutting a week off the backside.

Then your dates wouldn't be bad.

In the end, I'm going to hunt where the birds are, regardless of what zone they're in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

KLR said:


> It has always seemed goofy to me that z1 was UP only...bring it south to Grayling (M72)....I strongly doubt you'll affect too many z2 hunters N of there by moving them to z1 and cutting a week off the backside.
> 
> Then your dates wouldn't be bad.
> 
> ...


i agree with this, although i'm sure you'll find a z2 that won't like being tossed into z1....i do think it would be minor change since z1 and z2 shared the same opener this year which right there says a ton about how much seperates the 2 zones.


----------



## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

Mike L said:


> Your PM box is full..............


Missed this before...can't figure out how to empty my box from my mobile device, and its going to be several days until I'm in front of a computer...try sending an email.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

waterfowlhunter83 said:


> Kid,
> 
> Everyone needs to remember that this first CWAC meeting this year is to ONLY talk about number of zones and zone boundaries (NOT SEASON DATES). Seasons dates come later in the year and there is plenty of time to talk about those and find some common ground with regards to season dates. I would just encourage everyone to take a step back and look at the big picture here and just think about the boundary lines first before we think about specific season dates.
> 
> ...


this also created a huge problem for us (sfcha) in making our recommendation ....not knowing the dates we can't technically back a change in anything. This is why we came to the conclusion to not back anything different from last year. If we went to zone 2 and then got a oct 1 opener and january 1-2 split...we would be pissed for lack of better words


----------



## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

I like this map that waterfowlhunter83 posted in the other thread ("zone 2-3 border hunters") But based on this discussion, move the line south to include Saginaw County in zone 2, which would take SRSGA into zone 2. Then if you get the dates that Shi Kid and others are kicking around here, you've made the Shiawassee boys happy, you've likely made the Fish Point and bay guys happy, and zone 3 can open later, or have the two day late split, and not screw the rest up. The only thing I'm not sure about is the very west side of the state. But since waterfowlhunter83 is a west sider, and there has already been discussion about Muskegon wastewater and state game areas, I think he's already addressed those issues with his line on the west side?


----------



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

JD witht that line on tuscola county? does that mean dry fields are z3 and water is z2? just clarifying.


----------



## waterfowlhunter83 (Aug 10, 2005)

just ducky said:


> I like this map that waterfowlhunter83 posted in the other thread ("zone 2-3 border hunters") But based on this discussion, move the line south to include Saginaw County in zone 2, which would take SRSGA into zone 2. Then if you get the dates that Shi Kid and others are kicking around here, you've made the Shiawassee boys happy, you've likely made the Fish Point and bay guys happy, and zone 3 can open later, or have the two day late split, and not screw the rest up. The only thing I'm not sure about is the very west side of the state. But since waterfowlhunter83 is a west sider, and there has already been discussion about Muskegon wastewater and state game areas, I think he's already addressed those issues with his line on the west side?


I drew the map with 2 options in there...the blue line in there could be an adjustment to include Saginaw and Tuscola county into zone 2.

Yes, I did address MWW into my line for the west side.


Chad


----------



## Duckman Racing (Oct 11, 2004)

just ducky said:


> I like this map that waterfowlhunter83 posted in the other thread ("zone 2-3 border hunters")


That wouldn't be too bad, but I would make a minor change: keep M-20 as the dividing line from Lake Michigan to US-131, then drop it down to M46, or whatever the dividing line is on that map. This avoids the problem with splitting the Muskegon Waste Water, and keeps most of the Muskegon river watershed in Zone 3 where it is now.


----------



## waterfowlhunter83 (Aug 10, 2005)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> this also created a huge problem for us (sfcha) in making our recommendation ....not knowing the dates we can't technically back a change in anything. This is why we came to the conclusion to not back anything different from last year. If we went to zone 2 and then got a oct 1 opener and january 1-2 split...we would be pissed for lack of better words


If you guys are in Zone 2, I don't think the DNR would let that season fly b/c of freeze up.


----------



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

waterfowlhunter83 said:


> If you guys are in Zone 2, I don't think the DNR would let that season fly b/c of freeze up.


would love to have us in zone 2, our season ending around 1st week of december and a split used before 15th of october. that pretty much sums up SRSGA requirements. that split could be 2 days off, 5 days, 7days or 2 weeks...start date doesn't matter so much as long as its within federal mandates.

would also be open to splitting before thanksgiving for a reopen on thanksgiving weekend.


----------



## waterfowlhunter83 (Aug 10, 2005)

Duckman Racing said:


> That wouldn't be too bad, but I would make a minor change: keep M-20 as the dividing line from Lake Michigan to US-131, then drop it down to M46, or whatever the dividing line is on that map. This avoids the problem with splitting the Muskegon Waste Water, and keeps most of the Muskegon river watershed in Zone 3 where it is now.


Some of that upper Muskegon River area around BR (west of 131), I would like to see in Zone 2...M-20 prevents that. Reason for keeping the dividing lines simple and just use county lines.


----------



## Sampsons_owner (Dec 30, 2005)

Duckman Racing said:


> That wouldn't be too bad, but I would make a minor change: keep M-20 as the dividing line from Lake Michigan to US-131, then drop it down to M46, or whatever the dividing line is on that map. This avoids the problem with splitting the Muskegon Waste Water, and keeps most of the Muskegon river watershed in Zone 3 where it is now.


I agree with this for over here on the west side. As for using county lines I think it is better to use roadways like they do now instead. 

And as for the whole notion of changing the zones and dates, I'll believe it when I see it, this year was pretty darn good for me. I have seen SRSGA frozen by thanksgiving weekend before. This year seemed to be just right with the cold december we ended up having. Steve


----------



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Sampsons_owner said:


> I have seen SRSGA frozen by thanksgiving weekend before.e


i've hunted it 30 years. frozen maybe 3 times total...i'll risk it rather than lose it by mandate. Not gonna base dates off 3 frozen years.


----------



## SuperBlackEagle2 (Nov 4, 2005)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> this also created a huge problem for us (sfcha) in making our recommendation ....not knowing the dates we can't technically back a change in anything. This is why we came to the conclusion to not back anything different from last year. If we went to zone 2 and then got a oct 1 opener and january 1-2 split...we would be pissed for lack of better words


This is exactly why I am not interested in ANY of these proposed changes. I think that if the Bay got moved into Zone 2, somehow they would shaft us on the dates. Maybe I'm way off base, in thinking this way? I just don't trust it. Correct me if I'm wrong....but doesn't all of this talk of change, stem from the complaints by SW MI hunters? (I know they make valid points, and we're all equally important) But if the Sag Bay gets the shaft, it will start a real sh**-storm.


----------



## Duckman Racing (Oct 11, 2004)

waterfowlhunter83 said:


> Some of that upper Muskegon River area around BR (west of 131), I would like to see in Zone 2...M-20 prevents that. Reason for keeping the dividing lines simple and just use county lines.


 That is the area that I would not want to see in zone 2. If you put it in zone 2 you pretty much kill any chance of diver hunting on the river/ponds up there. I hunted that area the last weekend of the zone 3 season this year, and there were very few divers around. 1-2 weeks later would have been much better, as has been the case the last 5-6 years I have hunted that area.


----------



## waterfowlhunter83 (Aug 10, 2005)

SuperBlackEagle2 said:


> I think that if the Bay got moved into Zone 2, somehow they would shaft us on the dates.


Who is going to shaft you? The DNR?


----------



## decoy706 (Jul 28, 2006)

The way it was


----------



## SuperBlackEagle2 (Nov 4, 2005)

waterfowlhunter83 said:


> Who is going to shaft you? The DNR?


I don't know? I guess everyone that wants "change". I'm just saying I'm skeptical of having the Bay moved to Zone 2. I don't want to wind up with traditional Zone 2 dates. And I think that is what would happen, to be honest. And of course, the Northern Zone 2 guys, probably wouldn't want the dates that I would want.
To be honest with you, all of these proposals and opinions are making my head spin trying to keep them straight. I don't even want to have to think about that stuff right now. I normally don't NEED to think about it. I'd much rather go back to planning my golf trips to Myrtle Beach.


----------



## waterfowlhunter83 (Aug 10, 2005)

SuperBlackEagle2 said:


> I don't know? I guess everyone that wants "change". I'm just saying I'm skeptical of having the Bay moved to Zone 2. I don't want to wind up with traditional Zone 2 dates. And I think that is what would happen, to be honest. And of course, the Northern Zone 2 guys, probably wouldn't want the dates that I would want.
> To be honest with you, all of these proposals and opinions are making my head spin trying to keep them straight. I don't even want to have to think about that stuff right now. I normally don't NEED to think about it. I'd much rather go back to planning my golf trips to Myrtle Beach.


What season dates would you like to see?


----------



## SuperBlackEagle2 (Nov 4, 2005)

waterfowlhunter83 said:


> What season dates would you like to see?


Ideally, I'd like a 92 day season. Oct 1st, straight thru til Dec 31st. Seriously though, I'd take exactly what I had this year in Zone 3. Go ahead and even keep that 2 day New Years B.S. 
If that could be guaranteed, then put the Bay in Zone 2.


----------



## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> JD witht that line on tuscola county? does that mean dry fields are z3 and water is z2? just clarifying.


That's the idea. Dividing line would probably be M-25. That way the dry fields in Tuscola could potentially still be zone 3, and take advantage of a late 2 day split (if that were the zone 3 pick).


----------



## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

decoy706 said:


> The way it was


Wow Richard. I had no recollection of that '84-'85 configuration. Then again, I was newly out of college then, concentrating on my first real job, and I honestly don't know how much hunting I did those couple of years. Probably only a handful of times. Interesting to see the evolution of the zones though.


----------



## CaptainNorthwood (Jan 3, 2006)

Lets just make SRSGA and Saginaw Bay zone 4.


----------



## luke10 (Dec 30, 2010)

cornfieldbill said:


> I check my duck book that I started in 1965 . Can only find 8 times we were still hunting the bay in late November .Most of the time we were ice out by Thankgiving. I do not get the split the best hunting on the bay is in October last to weeks........................:evilsmile


How about moving Saginaw Bay into zone 2.Open on the first Saturday in Oct.
For the weekend.Shut down for 5 days. Then reopen on the next Saturday and run for 58 days.This would give us an earlier opener and still give the diver hunters a chance to hunt into early December.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

Kid,

I too would publicly like to thank you. This is exactly the type of debate I was hoping to spark with the multiple polls that I have put up. Instead of just voicing what we wanted in SW Michigan, I felt it much more productive to get the majority opinion........then try to work our season around them. 

My poll about the Shiawassee dates was sparked in hopes that the Bay and SRSGA would have the same majority opinion on season dates and could potentially be included in the same zone. As others have said.....it's important to speak of season dates at the same time as potential zone changes. A zone change is nothing but a line without the known potential season date opinion.

Additionally, if in fact the majority of the current Zone 2 hunters would be happy with our current Zone 3 season date, it's very possible that MWW should be included into the potential new Zone 2. I'm sure Robert can post up more about that, but I know the majority of talk about MWW and the surrounding counties have said they would not like a later season for the most part. Thus, separating them from Zone 3, but allowing them the same season, would be of benefit to everyone involved as well.

In closing, I'm currently working on compiling information that supports the exact ideas that we have been tossing around here on this site. It is all factual, evidence based information. This will also include an operational definition of Great Lakes Waters that can be used as a guideline for the "diver season" to run concurrent with the new Zone 3 season dates.

I've got a call in to Barb right now to get the final information that is needed. The official proposal will be finished up by next week Wednesday......as long as I get the final information that I need from Barb by then and can include it in the proposal. Otherwise, I will include a 4 year sampling instead of a 10-15 year sampling like I want. I'm hoping this proposal is one that all CWAC members can support. The more support and factual evidence we have to support the proposal, the better. 

Thanks again,
Jim


----------



## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Jim,

I truly appreciate all the time and effort you've made in the multiple posts, and trying to keep people on task. Believe me, I know what a thankless thing it is to do. But in your last post, you said 



field-n-feathers said:


> ....I'm hoping this proposal is one that all CWAC members can support. The more support and factual evidence we have to support the proposal, the better.


I just caution you to not expect 100% support from any group...not people on these boards, not all CWAC members, not the DNRE, or the NRC. It's just not going to happen. 

What you've done is gathered lots of good input, which will be PART OF THE EQUATION when this all gets sorted out. So you deserve a hand for that. But don't forget that every decision like this has lots of stakeholders...we waterfowlers are just one. There is also many different factions in the DNRE, including the Law Enforcement side...whatever is decided, they have the responsibility to enforce, so it needs to be enforceable. There are also legislators, number crunching bean counters who look at financial impacts, whether in license fees or dollars spent by hunters, there are business people, who all have lobbyists, yada, yada, yada. 

I'm hopeful whatever you end up drafting gets a fair shake, no matter if I like it or not. You've done the hard initial work. Now put the coal to it and keep it going forward.


----------



## Lucky Dog (Jul 4, 2004)

Leave Saginaw Bay in zone 3 and don't split it up. Make it part of zone two and the first week will be a circus with all the zone 3 guys coming up to get a week jump on their season.

When the bay used to be split by zone 2 and 3 the opening week was a mad house of hunters, all trying to enjoy two openers on the bay. 

The best thing that ever happened to the bay was to be all included in zone 3.


----------



## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

Thanks for the kind words JD. I should have posted, "Optimistically hoping that everyone approves". I realize that this is highly unlikely, but if a majority approve or at the very least this develops as a starting point for future dialog....I'll be happy. 

To be honest, I thought simply making 4 zones would have been the answer. However, after much band harvest research, and speaking with others around MWW and surrounding counties in addition to SE hunters.....I couldn't have been more wrong. Additionally with 4 zones we would lose a split which would be an epic failure if we ever have a restricted season.

Regardless of the outcome, I highly doubt any change with three zones would be an epic failure. If the majority are unhappy at the end of five years, we can change it at that point. It's been changed in the past and can be changed again. That is the beauty of what has now been offered to us.


----------



## cornfieldbill (Jun 6, 2009)

duckbuster2 said:


> Run the season from the first sat. in oct. to the last sun. in nov.
> Have been hunting the bay out of sebewaing since 1967.
> Have shot 85% of ducks in oct. and early nov. , froze out by thanksgiving 65% of the time.


Got the jump on you try 1952 by Nov.most of the ducks are gone & by Thanksgiving I would have to say 85% ice. Best hunting on the Bay is weeks 2 or 3 in Oct.- Best wind NE 20-25 mph Sky dark Temp 40-50 Will for the last 57 years any way................That's what my book saids :evilsmile Have a nice day


----------



## Dahmer (Jan 22, 2007)

KLR said:


> If that's what you're after, then you'd have to bring the zone one line farther south...somewhere around HL maybe.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I had mentioned this in another post with the zone config. I don't see why the UP and the northern part of zone 2 are not in the same zone. It was done in the early 80's. This makes no sense to me. There open dates for the last few years have been on the same weekend. So you can't use the agruement there would 3 seperate openers won't work. This is what I think would work: Redraw the zones so that the UP and and the northern half of the current zone 2 are in zone 1. The boundray line somewhere south of Houghton Lake. Put the rest of zone 2, saginaw bay and SRSGA. This whould make up the rest of zone 2. Boundray line to be figured out later. The rest of the state would be zone 3. I would support this config. As for the bay I haven't been froze out at Thanksgiving since 1995 per my records.


----------



## cornfieldbill (Jun 6, 2009)

Dahmer said:


> I had mentioned this in another post with the zone config. I don't see why the UP and the northern part of zone 2 are not in the same zone. It was done in the early 80's. This makes no sense to me. There open dates for the last few years have been on the same weekend. So you can't use the agruement there would 3 seperate openers won't work. This is what I think would work: Redraw the zones so that the UP and and the northern half of the current zone 2 are in zone 1. The boundray line somewhere south of Houghton Lake. Put the rest of zone 2, saginaw bay and SRSGA. This whould make up the rest of zone 2. Boundray line to be figured out later. The rest of the state would be zone 3. I would support this config. As for the bay I haven't been froze out at Thanksgiving since 1995 per my records.


If you hunt out of the Saginaw River yes its open as will as some other rivers.Most cuts are froze Sorry I stay on the bay all season .If you can walk on it its FROZE


----------



## idylmoments (Apr 28, 2002)

I like the dates Shiawassee_Kid proposed in his first post. Move FP and the Bay into zone 2.
Teal and local mallards early, migrators after the split. Perfect. It would increase my hunting time. 

As for the Bay being overrun due to seperate openers. Are you serious? It can't be more of a circus than it already is.


----------



## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

cornfieldbill said:


> If you hunt out of the Saginaw River yes its open as will as some other rivers.Most cuts are froze Sorry I stay on the bay all season .If you can walk on it its FROZE


If you use the same rationale as the SW Michigan guys, the world does not revolve around marsh hunting puddlers.

I could rationalize that besides Redheads and a smattering of bills, cans, ringers, the majority of divers do not show up till the 3rd or 4th week of Oct, so the season should not open till then.

Leave it the way it is. At this point, you'd be robbing Peter to pay Paul with any change.


----------

