# Beagle killed near Seney



## JWICKLUND

http://www.uppermichiganssource.com/news/story.aspx?id=395570

Just a heads up for anyone that hunts that area.


----------



## SNAREMAN

Thanks for the info.Hopefully,it may save a few hunting dogs.


----------



## predatordave

what a shame. i wonder if there has been any studies on how the wolves have affected the u.p. economy. i bet a lot of hunters using dogs have quit going up there because of the blood thirsty wolves. i know a couple guys who arent going to be going up deer hunting anymore also. they claim they see nothing but wolf tracks. i worked across the upper a couple summers back and bought one of my favorite t-shirts at the gas station in seney. it says get addicted to u.p. wolves...smoke a pack a day. of course it is joking though as they are protected still 

later, dave


----------



## tjays

The hole UP has them. Seem like every where we go there are wolf tracks. My dad live's on Trout lake (aka Carp lake) and over the last two winter's he watches them chace deer across the lake, kind of funny if are dogs get caught running deer the DNR will shoot them.


----------



## wall-ib-jiggin

Just the beginning!! The problem was take care of years ago! Infinite wisdom of the DNR brings it back....
Good to see our money well spent...


----------



## Big City

Ive Know of two different groups of hunters losing several hounds in a weekend up there to wolves. The first guy i talked to lost 3 in one day barely saved the 4th dog. The other group lost 2 a month later just a few minutes away. 

My little dogs will be fine in SE MI.


----------



## Fishcapades

S.s.s
Those damn thinks killed my uncles 1 year old GSP last summer.... 
There worthless.


----------



## MilakokiaMatt

Did they attack the GSP in the field or at home? If they take out a 85lb GSP, whose to say they wouldn't kill a child in the yard or a petite female hunter in the field? Eh.


----------



## cityslicker4

yup, those damn wolves always getting in the way of people, don't they know this was always our land?


----------



## glongworth3232

If a wolve did attack a person or a child on private land would u get in trouble for killing it?


----------



## JWICKLUND

glongworth3232 said:


> If a wolve did attack a person or a child on private land would u get in trouble for killing it?


Michigan law states that if you see a gray wolf attacking a pet, livestock, chile, etc., you _can_ kill it. But there's a Federal law in place that trumps that. The gray wolf is an endangered species. You can't touch him.


----------



## Logan the Destructor

JWICKLUND said:


> Michigan law states that if you see a gray wolf attacking a pet, livestock, chile, etc., you _can_ kill it. But there's a Federal law in place that trumps that. The gray wolf is an endangered species. You can't touch him.


If a tree falls in the woods does anyone hear it?
If a wolf dies in the woods does anyone care to report it?
In my eyes they all have targets on them, " I was in fear for my life officer"


----------



## Dale87

Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act, it shall be a defense to prosecution under this subsection if the defendant committed the offense based on a good faith belief that he was acting to protect himself or herself, a member of his or her family, or any other individual, from bodily harm from any endangered or threatened species.

Not sure exactly what that lawyer speak means completely but I read it to mean that you can shoot a wolf or any other threatened or endangered species if you believe that it is going to attack you or another person.


----------



## fasthunter

That really does suck about that guys dog. I see a place in the wild for wolves and crap does happen though. However, with the wolves getting out of hand in the UP I don't see anything wrong with an open season on them. Some wolves are good, to many are bad. Just like anything else.


----------



## bassdisaster

fasthunter said:


> That really does suck about that guys dog. I see a place in the wild for wolves and crap does happen though. However, with the wolves getting out of hand in the UP I don't see anything wrong with an open season on them. Some wolves are good, to many are bad. Just like anything else.


Apparently as fast as they take over an area, there is no such thing as *SOME* wolf's!
The last time I hunted in the U.P. was 2002, Porkypine mtn's 9 of us in camp, 3 of us seen wolf's then, it was like OMG:yikes: 
But now they are *EVERYWHERE* up there and something has to be done before they start killing people! YA THINK?, 
Ya our forefathers eradicated wolf's from Michigan long ago for a reason! Sure wasn't because they are kind and cuddly creatures! Sheesh!

BD


----------



## Dale87

bassdisaster said:


> Ya our forefathers eradicated wolf's from Michigan long ago for a reason! Sure wasn't because they are kind and cuddly creatures! Sheesh!
> 
> BD



Just like how they driven to extinction at least half a dozen other species of wolves, as well as elk, bison, fish and birds. Maybe we should go back to their theory of eradicating all the whitetail deer as well. As you say, they knew they weren't worth having around.


----------



## milmo1

fwiw-
I wonder if that GSP was wearing a beeper collar. There is only one documented kill on a hunting dog wearing a beeper, it was appx 5 yrs ago in Wisconsin. I always run my dogs up there with beepers, and I have encountered a pair of wolves which watched us from a distance.

I am not a beagle guy, but can you run them with a beeper? Unconventional maybe, but it could provide insurance.

Additionally, although I support the diversity of nature, I would gladly face a judge and surrender my hunting rights and a few dinero to save my dog. But I think it would be dismissed.


----------



## sgc

I used to run a beagle with a beeper - I think it made her go deaf early! Bells are supposed to work to ward off coyotes. I always ran beagles with bells & never had a coyote attack one, even though I heard them.


----------



## Henrik for President

Shoot, shovel, shut your mouth...


----------



## Hackman

Shoot and shut your mouth. DNR needs their heads examined for the re-establishment of wolves in Michigan.


----------



## ryan-b

heres what i can say about wolves. when i guidedd out west they were a real problem. we wouldnt turn dogs out if we saw fresh wolf tracks around. as far as the game thing. if a client shot a bull or mulie buck us guides would usually take of some piece of clothing to hang above or on the animal. we would also pee around the animal.never once lost a kill to wolves by doing this. they would come near but never touch it. so they do shy away from the smell of people.ive personally walked miles in the dark with and elk skull and rack on my back pack and 2 mules loaded with meat and though i could hear them and they ghosted us all the way they never touch us. could be though that they remembred that i had a pistol and they remembered me shooting some warning shots at them when they came to close to the stock that one morning:lol: wolves are smart, too smart. IMO we got rid of them once for a reason.


----------



## Waterloo Redtick

I understand peoples' frustration with wolves and how they effect our hobbies and pets. I certainly would hate to have my redtick killed by one. But, I believe that we must remember who was here first and pay some respect to that notion. 

I googled "humans killed by wolves". The most popular page listed many facts including this one, 

*The Linnell Report*

















"To compile the Linnell Report (Linnell et al 2002), 18 researchers from several countries scoured documents from the 16th century to the start of the 21st century. The researchers also drew on unpublished word of mouth cases from numerous contacts with hunters, foresters and others around the world. Translations of foreign material were made into English from Spanish, French, German, Italian, Polish, Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish, Estonian, Latvian, Lithuanian and Russian."

"*Results In A Nutshell*








What did the Linnell Report find? The great majority of fatal attacks on humans were by rabid wolves. There were few fatal predatory attacks on humans and *none in North America*. No one was killed when wolves attacked defensively. Moreover, examining records of the last 50 years the researchers could only find cases of 17 people killed in Europe and Russia and none in North America".

Cougars, bears, and deer all kill people. They are a greater concern. We must not be afraid of something simply because we don't understand it. Wolves can cause great damage to domestic and wild life, but that is their job, we are the ones who are putting filet mignon in a cage in the middle of wolf hunting grounds. 

I know most won't agree with me, but I think wolves will eventually provide growth for our economy ( as soon as the law suits are over and they are de-listed again). Wolves will eventually fulfill an economic niche and will be a game species soon.


----------



## cantonrat

Waterloo Redtick said:


> I know most won't agree with me, but I think wolves will eventually provide growth for our economy ( as soon as the law suits are over and they are de-listed again). Wolves will eventually fulfill an economic niche and will be a game species soon.


 
Not soon enough for my tastes. 

I don't care what the feds say... if a wolf comes anywhere near me, mine or my dogs, he's gonna get lead.


----------



## predatordave

waterloo, if there ever is a hunting season on the u.p. wolf do you think that season will make up for the dog hunters and deer hunters that have quit going to the u.p. to hunt. i dont think it would even come close. the state would probably only issue so few tags and it would probably be by lottery system so yep it would help lansing get money but not enough for the u.p. if it did ever happen to open it would be nice to see a quota hunt like out west does. that would bring more actual people in to use hotels and eat at the restaurants , not just tag winners that might not even harvest one. this is just my opinion. 

later, dave


----------



## BigSteve

Dale87 said:


> Just like how they driven to extinction at least half a dozen other species of wolves, as well as elk, bison, fish and birds. Maybe we should go back to their theory of eradicating all the whitetail deer as well. As you say, they knew they weren't worth having around.


He wasn't talking about the other species, he was talking about the wolf. And they were eradicated once for a good reason. Bastards, I know our deer camp is strongly thinking of relocating, tracks everywhere,sightings all the time, and no deer. Shame about the guys dog,and all the others who've lost one to these a#%$&*^$.


----------



## Quakstakr

ryan-b said:


> heres what i can say about wolves. when i guidedd out west they were a real problem. we wouldnt turn dogs out if we saw fresh wolf tracks around. as far as the game thing. if a client shot a bull or mulie buck us guides would usually take of some piece of clothing to hang above or on the animal. we would also pee around the animal.never once lost a kill to wolves by doing this. they would come near but never touch it. so they do shy away from the smell of people.ive personally walked miles in the dark with and elk skull and rack on my back pack and 2 mules loaded with meat and though i could hear them and they ghosted us all the way they never touch us. could be though that they remembred that i had a pistol and they remembered me shooting some warning shots at them when they came to close to the stock that one morning:lol: wolves are smart, too smart. IMO we got rid of them once for a reason.


The wolves and yotes you had out west were probably less tolerant of human interaction.

My uncle had beagles in the Keewenaw Peninsula

Dogs got away once, as they often do. And three days later with one dog still missing, he put down a coat. The dog came back, but so did the wild ones. 

He said the biggest thing he found of his beagle, was one ear :rant:


----------



## Vicious Fishous

I know the DNR traps and keeps tabs on alot of wolves. I'm suprised that they don't start fixing them. I'm sure evryone knows how fast unfixed dogs breed. Either way they were (once) part of a niche and should be, just monitored and controlled, like everything else. 

Remember who was here first...The Native Americans, who got to shoot wolves when they needed to, and they weren't running out of deer, buffalo, elk, etc. Until us white boys came eradicated everything. Good ol' Manifest Destiny. 

Two years ago my uncle's brittany was killed by his neighbors roaming GSP. That didn't make the news. Nor are there eradication efforts being made for GSP's, and there shouldn't be. Wolves in MI is something that nobody from MI is used to. The fact is, they are probably going to be here longer than all of us are. So we deal with the change, and soon there will inevitably be a season for them, just like there is for eveything else.

It has to suck to lose a dog like that, but alot of good dogs die everyday for no reason, and if it weren't for wolves we wouldn't have all of our wonderful dogs. Right?


PETE


----------



## Hadji

I saw a fill-in story on the wolf in Yellowstone NP last week (think that it was on the Weather Channel) on how the wolf was re-introduced there with 24 animals 10 years ago. 

Well after 10 years they estimate that the population is now well over 1,500 animals.:yikes: They have spread now to Utah, Idaho, Montana, and Colorado.

You would have to think that there is at least that many in the UP now.(?)

That has got to be a huge impact on the deer herd now!


----------



## sgc

I read a book called the Slash hounds of the old west. They ran cougars, bear & bobcat with their hounds in the New Mexico area. These guys were really close to the wild and knew how to live in it. The thing they hated the most was wolves. They didn't hate the lions & bears, but they loathed the wolf. One quote: "the wolf is the cruelest, most wanton killer of all of our Southwestern predators." They go on to say the wolf kills wantonly, beyond its need for food and that the wolf delights in trying to kill dogs. They give lots of examples from experience. There are guys, today, that are getting out of beagling in the U.P. because of the wolves. With wolves killing bear dogs up there, I don't think beagles or a bird dog have much of a chance. A guy I recently talked to up there told me everyone he knows that grouse hunts are trying to keep their upland dogs in real close these days.


----------



## kmonty

glongworth3232 said:


> If a wolve did attack a person or a child on private land would u get in trouble for killing it?


If i seen a timber wolf a.k.a grey wolf attacking anyone, i would kill it no matter where i was. And if i faced a fine for saving someones life, so be it... ill get a lawyer and fight that bull crap.



JWICKLUND said:


> Michigan law states that if you see a gray wolf attacking a pet, livestock, chile, etc., you _can_ kill it. But there's a Federal law in place that trumps that. The gray wolf is an endangered species. You can't touch him.


So your saying by law, you see a wolf attacking a kid, you won't dare to touch the wolf, yes its a law, but let your moral instinct and human nature take over... the hell with that wolf! 

The camp i used to hunt at in the U.P (outside of Manistique and Gulliver) seen more timber wolfs a.k.a grey wolfs then deer this past year for deer season. Every night they seen wolves in almost every bait pile, and 1 mountain lion. It wont be very long, until a human is injured or killed by one of these *MANY* wolfs or mountain lions we have in the U.P.

I was at my camp in McFarland, and i stopped at the gas station in little lake to fill up my truck. Started talking with the guy who was working at the gas station and he had a picture of a nasty looking moutain lion carring a 8 point buck in his mouth across the guys bait pile....


----------



## augustus0603

Hackman said:


> Shoot and shut your mouth. DNR needs their heads examined for the re-establishment of wolves in Michigan.


The DNR didn't "re-establish" them. They migrated from Wisconsin and Ontario.


----------



## bassdisaster

Dale87 said:


> Just like how they driven to extinction at least half a dozen other species of wolves, as well as elk, bison, fish and birds. Maybe we should go back to their theory of eradicating all the whitetail deer as well. As you say, they knew they weren't worth having around.


Extinct? Wolf's? where exactly here in Michigan? cause theres plenty of WOLF's in the USA, do we really need them here?
Times have changed, there is NO longer a place for them HERE! Get over it already!
Matters Not who was here 1st, WE are HERE NOW! This is OUR land, not the WOLF's!
We are the DOMINANT preditor, we are the decision makers, we are the idiots that allowed reintroduction of a NASTY distempered killer into our own back yards!
We are to blame and WE should be the cure!
Open a season, no limit, all amimals turned in to checkstations!
Id bet that even with this drastic measure we would not even dent the populations!
Breed like rabbits, ya rite How about breed like Wolf's!

BD


----------



## Crow Buster

I believe all wild things have a place and it would be a shame to see anything become extinct. That being said, I'm sure Detroit was also once part of their native range, but nobody would ever think about bringing them back there. The reality is northern Canada is full of wolves and very few people, they'll be just fine there. 

In regard to wolves not attacking humans, it all depends on the sources you site. The reason they were eliminated on a global scale was indeed their historic predation on humans. If anyone has watched the documentary about the Indian children dragged off in the night and killed by wolves (30-40 kids), you know just how real and recent this can be. Attacks in North America never reached the scale of Europe because the people here came from there and started eliminating the wolves right off. The population density is quite low here, but if you consider it in light of the incidents, it's very sobering. Here is some interesting history:

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_attacks_on_humans[/ame]

CB


----------



## ryan-b

just to some this all up. first to the fella that wrote timber wolves aka greys. they are not the same timber wolves are much small about the size of a big yote. they have mostly been breed out or killed off by the much larger greys. wolves being less tollerant of people out west. probly right they had far less human interaction. to the guy that posted about no wolf attacks in north america. 5-6 yrs ago a guy in saskatawan or alberta got hunted and killed by a pack of wolves while out hiking. this man was over 6'2 and very healthy. i personlly know a man that was attacked in idaho trying to stop wolves from killing 6 of his bear dogs. last dog died saving his life.


----------



## OSXer

sgc said:


> IOne quote: "the wolf is the cruelest, most wanton killer of all of our Southwestern predators." They go on to say the wolf kills wantonly,* beyond its need for food and that the wolf delights in trying to kill dogs. *


*
It's in their DNA to eliminate competition, both among themselves (between packs) and other canines. This is why they kill dogs not necessarily to eat them. It's similar to the coyote and fox, etc.*


----------



## omega58

The wolves are just not in the UP of Michigan, they crossed the straits a few years back.


----------



## Dale87

bassdisaster said:


> Extinct? Wolf's? where exactly here in Michigan? cause theres plenty of WOLF's in the USA, do we really need them here?
> Times have changed, there is NO longer a place for them HERE! Get over it already!
> Matters Not who was here 1st, WE are HERE NOW! This is OUR land, not the WOLF's!
> We are the DOMINANT preditor, we are the decision makers, we are the idiots that allowed reintroduction of a NASTY distempered killer into our own back yards!
> We are to blame and WE should be the cure!
> Open a season, no limit, all amimals turned in to checkstations!
> Id bet that even with this drastic measure we would not even dent the populations!
> Breed like rabbits, ya rite How about breed like Wolf's!
> 
> BD


First off, I was trying to make a point that our forefathers didn't always use much in the way of forethought on much of their wild life conservation. Maybe they had a good reason to wipe out the wolves, but it seems to me they were pretty narrow sighted on the other examples I brought up. 

Secondly, I personally don't care if there are wolves here or not but they are here. Now I can understand being pissed off about it if they had actually reintroduced them but they didn't they came here naturally. Although I guess you can still be pissed off about that too.

Now you say that wolves don't have a place here, however they are clearly surviving here and apparently thriving so I can't see how you think that. I guess you mean they don't have a place here socially, so why is that? Because they eat dogs and deer? Now being upset about the dogs I can understand they are like family to many people and it must be hell to lose one. Now the deer thing, I can understand the importance of getting a deer to a lot of people but to wipe out an entire species just so you can get a deer seems a bit drastic. 

However don't get me wrong though, I believe wolves should be controlled, but controlling wolves and wiping them out is to completely different things in my mind. Now how many wolves we can have and keep people happy is hard to say, but i'm sure theres a number where the wolves still have a place and people will still have a few deer left around and their dogs will be relatively safe. Also hunting wolves would be pretty sweet. 

Now to you folks talking about just poaching wolves, i'd be careful talking like that. I can see something like that coming up in a delisting court case, "But judge, you can't delist the wolves, people are poaching them left and right! Just look!". I guess it wouldn't really matter to you folks though, since it wouldn't make a difference anyways. Kind of sad really hah.


----------



## augustus0603

Has anyone here ever read "Thinking Like a Mountain" by Aldo Leupold?

A deep chesty bawl echoes from rimrock to rimrock, rolls down the mountain, and fades into the far blackness of the night. It is an outburst of wild defiant sorrow, and of contempt for all the adversities of the world. Every living thing (and perhaps many a dead one as well) pays heed to that call. To the deer it is a reminder of the way of all flesh, to the pine a forecast of midnight scuffles and of blood upon the snow, to the coyote a promise of gleanings to come, to the cowman a threat of red ink at the bank, to the hunter a challenge of fang against bullet. Yet behind these obvious and immediate hopes and fears there lies a deeper meaning, known only to the mountain itself. Only the mountain has lived long enough to listen objectively to the howl of a wolf. 
Those unable to decipher the hidden meaning know nevertheless that it is there, for it is felt in all wolf country, and distinguishes that country from all other land. It tingles in the spine of all who hear wolves by night, or who scan their tracks by day. Even without sight or sound of wolf, it is implicit in a hundred small events: the midnight whinny of a pack horse, the rattle of rolling rocks, the bound of a fleeing deer, the way shadows lie under the spruces. Only the ineducable tyro can fail to sense the presence or absence of wolves, or the fact that mountains have a secret opinion about them.

My own conviction on this score dates from the day I saw a wolf die. We were eating lunch on a high rimrock, at the foot of which a turbulent river elbowed its way. We saw what we thought was a doe fording the torrent, her breast awash in white water. When she climbed the bank toward us and shook out her tail, we realized our error: it was a wolf. A half-dozen others, evidently grown pups, sprang from the willows and all joined in a welcoming melee of wagging tails and playful maulings. What was literally a pile of wolves writhed and tumbled in the center of an open flat at the foot of our rimrock.

In those days we had never heard of passing up a chance to kill a wolf. In a second we were pumping lead into the pack, but with more excitement than accuracy: how to aim a steep downhill shot is always confusing. When our rifles were empty, the old wolf was down, and a pup was dragging a leg into impassable slide-rocks.

We reached the old wolf in time to watch a fierce green fire dying in her eyes. I realized then, and have known ever since, that there was something new to me in those eyes - something known only to her and to the mountain. I was young then, and full of trigger-itch; I thought that because fewer wolves meant more deer, that no wolves would mean hunters' paradise. But after seeing the green fire die, I sensed that neither the wolf nor the mountain agreed with such a view.

Since then I have lived to see state after state extirpate its wolves. I have watched the face of many a newly wolfless mountain, and seen the south-facing slopes wrinkle with a maze of new deer trails. I have seen every edible bush and seedling browsed, first to anaemic desuetude, and then to death. I have seen every edible tree defoliated to the height of a saddlehorn. Such a mountain looks as if someone had given God a new pruning shears, and forbidden Him all other exercise. In the end the starved bones of the hoped-for deer herd, dead of its own too-much, bleach with the bones of the dead sage, or molder under the high-lined junipers.

I now suspect that just as a deer herd lives in mortal fear of its wolves, so does a mountain live in mortal fear of its deer. And perhaps with better cause, for while a buck pulled down by wolves can be replaced in two or three years, a range pulled down by too many deer may fail of replacement in as many decades. So also with cows. The cowman who cleans his range of wolves does not realize that he is taking over the wolf's job of trimming the herd to fit the range. He has not learned to think like a mountain. Hence we have dustbowls, and rivers washing the future into the sea.

We all strive for safety, prosperity, comfort, long life, and dullness. The deer strives with his supple legs, the cowman with trap and poison, the statesman with pen, the most of us with machines, votes, and dollars, but it all comes to the same thing: peace in our time. A measure of success in this is all well enough, and perhaps is a requisite to objective thinking, but too much safety seems to yield only danger in the long run. Perhaps this is behind Thoreau's dictum: In wildness is the salvation of the world. Perhaps this is the hidden meaning in the howl of the wolf, long known among mountains, but seldom perceived among men.


----------



## Hackman

1974 wolves were re-located in Marquette county, Dnr said it was un-sucessful. 1992 Director Roland Harmes appointed a 10 person "Grey Wolf Recovery Plan " to establish a wolf population in Michigan. Look it up it's fact. I'll say it again DNR needs their heads examined.


----------



## Hackman

Facilitate Wolf Related Beniefits Sec 5.2 As sportsman who pay the salary of the over educated numb skulls they list 5 benefits . A couple were interaction with nature and one was religious value. If a hunter can't hunt in the UP in fear of his dog gettig killed seems he won't go up there, plus I see no need for religous values to be thrown in with this subject. What a waste of michigan sportsman dollars. Read it, made me want to puke.


----------



## Robert Holmes

They go good next to the mashed potatoes and gravey. Eat the evidence


----------



## bronc72

I have seen a lot of dogs running deer, caught quite a few trapping. seen them tear up livestock. I am willing to bet all the feral dogs, and dogs not restrained by their owners do far more damage and disruption then wolves.
Nice thing about the wolves is they remove coyotes, which are native to the southwest U.S. 
I know that a lot more deer are killed out of season or at night then by wolves also. Heck how long did it take to get moose back in the state, every time they migrated back in they were killed with-in days. People got to eat too.
The DNR should remove that law that says you can't shoot dogs, at leas t for those with out collars, looking a little mangie and out in the middle of no where. Not saying shoot those dogs that are not feral.


----------



## sigman

Robert Holmes said:


> This is the cold hard facts the humane society (PETA) not the DNR say that you cannot shoot a wolf. You cannot shoot a wolf to protect yourself, your livestock, or your pet because PETA says you cannot. PETA wants wolves because they eliminate game animals thus eliminating hunters. The DNR needs to back off and get out of the wolf program altogather. It does not take much of a businessman to figure out 1000 wolves will kill off 100000 deer in a year. Do wolves pay the DNR wages or do deer. If somebody shoots a wolf there must be a reason the DNR needs to leave it alone. No arrest, no court, no jail time, no fines there must be a reason. Would you pay taxes on a deer camp if there were no deer??? Would you deer hunt if there were no deer? Would the DNR even have a wolf program if there were no deer?SSS


 I cant believe that each wolf in Michigan kills 100 deer a year. Thats one deer per wolf every 3.65 days. I am sure they kill plenty of deer but is that what they mainly dine on? And just for information I am not pro wolf.


----------



## Bearboy

Dog haters never cease to amaze me.....


----------



## Mickey Finn

bronc72 said:


> I have seen a lot of dogs running deer, caught quite a few trapping. seen them tear up livestock. I am willing to bet all the feral dogs, and dogs not restrained by their owners do far more damage and disruption then wolves.
> Nice thing about the wolves is they remove coyotes, which are native to the southwest U.S.
> I know that a lot more deer are killed out of season or at night then by wolves also. Heck how long did it take to get moose back in the state, every time they migrated back in they were killed with-in days. People got to eat too.
> The DNR should remove that law that says you can't shoot dogs, at leas t for those with out collars, looking a little mangie and out in the middle of no where. Not saying shoot those dogs that are not feral.


Bronc72 There may be plenty of feral dogs running around flushing reeking havoc. but in the north woods, thats not the case. Wolves in Alaska, a state with considerable wolf experience. Eat approx 30 caribou each per year. White tails are about 100-150# smaller. So, it figures that our wolves eat quite a few more deer. Now the problem with Moose is stricktly habitat. Northern michigan is the southern extreme for the mooses range. So, they don't do as well as they do farther north. But, Global warming aside The UP moose are expanding their range south. Where I hunt, I'm seeing more and more sign. So, you see, everything is fine. Lets not have any more talk about shooting mans best friend.


----------



## predatordave

bronc72, i would think you know better than say anything about shooting dogs on here. please refrain from making statements of the sort. it never ends out good and a good friendly discussion will end up getting locked. 

thanks, dave


----------



## Stealheadslayer

KLR said:


> Regardless of how high the wolf population, if you think we are ever going to be able to hunt them-you're crazy. (Remember the Dove bill??)


 
People aren't scared of Doves, but the general public is scared of Wolves. With the right lobbiest in Lansing we could see a season on Wolves. Of course it will be met with some oposition, but if twisted the right way...mommies and daddies in suburbia won't be to opposed if they think the big bad wolf is going to snatch little susie off her swing set while they're in the house making dinner. People are puppets....they can be convinced of anything, it just depends on who has more money to do the convincing with. Fear is the most powerful motivator...if you get people a little bit scared of wolves,,,there will be a lynch mob effect.


----------



## captjimtc

If they do come off the endangered list sign me up for a pack of Irish Wolfhounds!!! I would love to run a wolf pack down with an AR and some of them bad boys....I would probably quit deer hunting and focus mainly on running wolves....Hope the day comes!!!!!


----------



## theanglerhimself

JWICKLUND said:


> http://www.uppermichiganssource.com/news/story.aspx?id=395570
> 
> Just a heads up for anyone that hunts that area.


You know, its as if the 9th amendment doesn't exist anymore.
When are we going to put the federal government in its proper place?


----------



## theanglerhimself

captjimtc said:


> If they do come off the endangered list sign me up for a pack of Irish Wolfhounds!!! I would love to run a wolf pack down with an AR and some of them bad boys....I would probably quit deer hunting and focus mainly on running wolves....Hope the day comes!!!!!


Coyotes are legal and way too plentiful.


----------



## Hoosier Daddy

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100131/ART16/100139978/0/BUSINESS


----------



## dallasdog

I lived in the UP for a while and spent a great deal out in no-mans land probably 200 plus days a year. helped do some research on wolves .... 95% percent of wolf sightings are mis identifiey and are coyotes. think about isle royal 20,000 visitors a year on a a island roughly 45 miles by 10 miles go there half see moose only about 100 see a wolf. they do kill deer but not so much the full grown healthy ones fawns and sick ones mostly. winter is much harder on them then wolves... its a predator prey circle, when the game numbers get low the predators are high then there is no food for prdators they drop and the game numbers rise..... i go up there every year for a week and stay in a tent in the woods and dont see civilization with my bird dogs and never had a problem, but have heard of some incidents but thats about it. thought id throw my 2 cents in


----------

