# Frost seeding chicory



## Jeff Sturgis

Anybody frost-seed chicory?


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## Luv2hunteup

I've frost seeded chicory with clover the past few years. Maybe a pound or two per acre of Tecomonte brand chicory. I'll be seeding it again this spring, only because I still have some leftover seed. 

As far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on chicory. I really don't see much usage through the spring/summer but like the rest of my plots it's pretty much consumed in the fall. I'm neutral on planting or recommending it.


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## Jeff Sturgis

Luv2,

I can't say I've seen any use of it during the spring/summer/early fall, but it seems when it finally "heads-out", grows a stalk, and gets into the late season if becomes very attractive. I'm considering a straight planting of the stuff on a large portion this year because if the deer will leave it alone in the summer and hit it hard during November that would be great. 

The chicory gets a high stalk with purple flowers...right?


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## Swamp Ghost

> The chicory gets a high stalk with purple flowers...right?


 Yep, but I'm with Luv the jury is still out. Maybe I'm not letting mine flower?


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## DeerMan

Yes the chicory grows a 3-4' stalk that blooms a purple flower. I first planted chicory in June of 2003 and was pretty impressed with the way deer hit it that first season. In 2004 I let the plants bloom several times before mowing and the stand has continued to get thicker. After my last mowing in early September I fertilized the plot to sweeten it up for the hunting season. The chicory stayed green and attracted deer well into early Dec.. I'd have to say after several hours of watching the deer feed in my plots from Oct. to Dec. that they preferred chicory over all other green food sources that I had planted and this includes clover, alfalfa,buck oats , wheat and brassicas. They would browse on the wheat and oats on their way to the chicory and clover plot, but they would spend most of their time feeding on the chicory plants. I'll add that the deer on my farm won't even touch brassicas. There is no doubt that deer like a wide variety of foods and that the preferences change through out the season. For the summer months I like larger perrenial plots of clover,chicory and alfalfa that attract alot of deer. I surround these plots with an annual mix of sunflowers, grazing soybeans and lab lab to add variety and a sense of security. In Sept. this annual mix can be bushhogged in strategic areas near stand locations and planted to a winter wheat and oat combo. I also plant strips of RR corn and soybeans interspread through and around my plots to serve as a late season food source and further cover and security. Many of my friends tease me and call my farm the golden corral smorgasboard for deer. I don't let this bother me too much as they are always in line ready to go hunting after I've tagged out. Sorry for being so long winded but spring is fast approaching and I am beginning to feel the urge.


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## Jeff Sturgis

My deer especially seem to like the stalks...but not the leaves, at least during the summer.

I wouldn't mind though putting in quite a bit more chicory in my plots, especially the clover plots that were planted last fall. All had chicory, but only at 1# per acre....wondering if frost seeding in a couple more pounds will take...it's a fairly expensive seed per pound.


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## farm hunter

Jeff - 

Do you have, or can you provide a picture of the forage Chicory flower?

I know it looking like this










I've never planted it - and am not familiar with its flower. 

When I do a search - I get this:










Which I'm sure is not the correct flower/plant

Thanks
FH


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## DeerMan

The pic you provide looks exactly like the blooms on my chicory plot.


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## answerguy8

DeerMan said:


> The pic you provide looks exactly like the blooms on my chicory plot.


I assume it's the same stuff that when I find it growing in my yard I call it a weed.


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## rzdrmh

NorthJeff said:


> My deer especially seem to like the stalks...but not the leaves, at least during the summer.
> 
> I wouldn't mind though putting in quite a bit more chicory in my plots, especially the clover plots that were planted last fall. All had chicory, but only at 1# per acre....wondering if frost seeding in a couple more pounds will take...it's a fairly expensive seed per pound.


yeah, the place i get it is $10/lb. not cheap at all, considering rape is about .80 cents/lb, and grows about anywhere.


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## wecker20

The chicory I planted never got tall enough to flower. It was planted in the fall though and the deer nailed it after it was 6" tall. I see what it does this summer. I also want to plant more of it. Why the heck not, got too much open land not too.


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## DEERSLAYER

rzdrmh,

$10 a pound is pretty steep. If you can't find it for a better price than that then try Albert Lee Seed. They have it less than $4 a pound. Shipping will add a bit to that, but it will still be a lot cheaper than what you are paying.

http://www.alseed.com


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## Guest

Chicory dickory dock, the deer ate all my stock. 

Chicory is just another plant type that all, should plant, whether they think deer eat it or not. Variety my friends and lots of it.

Did you catch the post that mentioned fertilizing chicory in September and it got the attention of deer big time. Yes indeed fertilize but more like mid September and all attractant food plots to get the attention of deer. 

Try this, fertilize half of one of your hunting location food plots like a mixed grain and peas plot with 100 lbs of urea 46-0-0 per acre or half of a straight legume (clover) plot with 50 lbs of urea per acre. You do not need to call and tell me the results. I already know. 

Man, chicory is 30% protein and very digestible, chicory grows in the mid ummer when nothing else grows, chicory starts growing very early in the spring, when high protein forgage is paramount. 

All young plants are desireable to deer and chicory is no differant. If you want to see deer gorge themselves on chicory, plant it around the first of August and that goes for most forages. 

You want to see deer go nuts in a early August planted chicory plot during the bow opener of October the first, fertilize it with 100 lbs of urea in mid September no matter what and how much you fertilized it when you planted it.

The next year do nothing to half of this chicory plot and the other half, mow the first of june,and fertilize, mow the first of August and fertilize, then in mid September do the right thing. You do not need to call me to tell me the results, I already know.


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## Guest

Deerslayer, what kind of chicory is for sale at $4.00 per lb?

I just picked up a few 50 lb bags of chicory seed and paid more than $6.00 per lb and I got it wholesale. This is oasis chicory and will be one of 16 seed types or varities in the new QDMA Michigan's Ultimate Blend and be available in a week or two, check our Michigan QDMA web site (qdma.net). 

There are many varieties of chicory and yes, some are better than others, buyer beware. I find that most of the major deer food plot seed suppliers have acceptable chicory seed and none have it at anywhere near $4.00 per lb, more like $7.50 to $9.00.

Deer do eat the native chicory (purple flowers in late summer) we see alongside the fields and ditches but not as well as the cultured varieties.


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## DEERSLAYER

I made that post based on last years catalog just before I headed out to work. As the computer was shutting down and I was walking out the door I grabbed the mail and lo and behold the new 2005 catalog. I got to work, checked it out, and found the price had jumped to $6.76 a pound. Wow, what a jump! Don't know why it went up so much (maybe it's all us food plotters driving up the demand LOL), but I couldn't wait to get home so I could correct my mistake. I just knew I was going to get busted. I got home and sure enough, busted.

I should have made sure I'm up to date before I posted that (although I really didn't expect it to up that much). Sorry about that guy's.


P.S. The variety is Puna. Last year they also carried Forage Feast.



.


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## rzdrmh

thanks for the heads up, guys - whether its 6.50, 7.50, or 9 its still cheaper than what i'm getting. hmm. i've been thinking this place was a little steep. might have to make a switch. the first year i went there, i got prices quoted, and put in my order, and then when it comes in, the price was about 20% more than what was quoted. seems the price goes up if you don't order whole bags of seed (50 lbs.) that's completely understandable, but he had my order and my amounts, he could have quoted the correct price to begin with.


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## Swamp Ghost

"This is oasis chicory and will be one of 16 seed types or varities in the new QDMA Michigan's Ultimate Blend and be available in a week or two, check our Michigan QDMA web site (qdma.net). "



Keep us posted


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## Jeff Sturgis

Has anybody had good success with frost-seeding chicory? As good as clover?


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## Guest

Yes, and I had and no problem with success. I have also overseeded chicory on a Roundup sprayed old clover field also with satisfactorily results. I know it worked for the old clover field had no chicory in it when it was originally frost seeded and yet there it was coming on like gangbusters. 

The most effective time to plant chicory is around the end of July or no later than the first of August. This stuff will be attacked by deer sometimes to the point of an hour at a time, with them eating chicory and nothing else. Do not forget to fertilize it with urea (100 lbs per acre around mid September). Jeff one early October evening I observed over 20 deer (5 bucks, one a keeper) in this field. The problem that day was that I was in a differant field but could observe this pure chicory plot. Two years ago we had a youth hunter located about eighty yards off this plot in the late September youth hunt. He seen five bucks and no does in the AM. It was his first hunt and my rules are "You must take a doe first before you take a buck". He took a doe in the opposite field from this same blind location in the evening hunt. The following year this chicory plot still worked but not as good as the first year. 

I intend to spray Roundup and 2-4-D plus overseed this late spring plus cultipack with Oasis chicory in this same plot. Fertilize normally, then fertlize with urea in mid September, with absolutly no tillage intended. With good soil the planting or overeseeding methods can be so easy that it's a crime not to plant.


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## MAGNUS

DeerMan said:


> Yes the chicory grows a 3-4' stalk that blooms a purple flower.


My question is that if I were to frost-seed some chickory into an existing clover plot, how does it ever grow high enough to expose the stalk or flower...since it gets mowed right along with the clover thoughout the season? If considering planting it into this kind of plot, is it worth planting if you don't let it grow higher than 8-10" before it gets mowed?


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## dcgreil

magnus, from everything that I've heard, the deer target the leaves of the plant and not the stalk and/or flower. Deer may eat the stalk and flower, but that is not their first choice. Chicory is supposed to be mowed in order to control the "bolting" of the stalk and flower and to keep the leaves, which resemble dandelions, thick and lush. 

I planted chicory for the first time at the end of last July. I had the same results and experience that Ed Spin noted in earlier posts of this thread. This year I plan on mowing and fertilizing at least once...probably on the schedule recommended by Ed Spin (since he is giving out free advice and seems to be the guru of these things). 

Good luck!


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## DeerMan

Magnus, don't worry about the chicory having enough time to grow between clover mowings. In fact the chicory actually grows a stalk well before I am ready to mow my clover plots. I like to mow my strip plots 1/3 at a time. This way you have a lot of different stages of growth for the deer to choose from. Also the chicory if planted fairly heavy or has had a chance to reseed provides cover throughout the summer and well into fall. I left a 30' strip of my chicory plot unmowed for this last hunting season and deer fed heavily on the stalks as well as the leaves on the plants that had been mowed.


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## Jeff Sturgis

"I left a 30' strip of my chicory plot unmowed for this last hunting season and deer fed heavily on the stalks as well as the leaves on the plants that had been mowed."

I was wondering if that would actually be a good strategy to go with. I've found the deer really target those stalks later in the hunting season but I've never had that many stalks in the entire field. I was thinking about an entire field of chicory that possibly would be targeted heavily towards the middle of hunting season.


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## mike hartges

Ed, does chicory bounce back after being sprayed with roundup like clover and trefoil do?


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## Guest

Mike:

Yes, and a little no. I sprayed a plot that has a blend of legumes that includes chicory several times in the past 6 years. I have never seen a problem having the chicory stay alive and eventually come back. It seems to get hurt more than the clover, which worried me at first. Then it always comes back but what I'm not sure of is how much of it comes back from matured seed. All chicory will seed. Even the so called boltless chicory like forest feast will bolt in the second and succeding years. This may sound confusing to you. 

Let me explain, The existing plant will come back after a spraying of Roundup but it looks pretty peaked till early fall. Normally the following spring I see more chicory in these sprayed plots and as healthy as can be than was present the previous fall. What I cannot make out for sure is, how much of that new chicory came from dropped matured seed. In any event it keeps coming back and another thing. 

Chicory has a life span of about 5-6 years and yet when spraying, which opens up the soil a bit for dropped seeds to germinate and if chicory does indeed reseed itself, which I think it does after a mid mid May spraying, then spraying Roundup every other year just may keep chicory growing new plants forever providing, you spray. I like that theory.

Perhaps some of you can experiment and confirm or disprove this theory.

Whatever you do make sure you keep the fun in hunting!


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## mike hartges

Thanks, Ed.


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## Swamp Ghost

Ed, what is your solution mix recommendation for a gylophosate spraying of 4 year old clover this May?


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## mike hartges

SwampGhost, I was curious about the same thing. My clover field is 11 years old and I sprayed about 1/3 of it last August since we had been getting rain on a weekly basis all summer. Of course we had a drought in September. I was wondering if the standard 1 quart of Roundup and 1 quart of sprayable ammonium sulphate might be too strong for a May spraying if you want to get the clover to come back by summer. I hope to spray in early May and maybe top dress the clover with some clover and chicory seed. I frost seeded some birdsfoot trefoil in that plot a couple years ago and I have seen some evidence that at least some of it germinated. Those yellow flowers on the trefoil are easy to spot all summer long.


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## Guest

Moisture is an important ingedient to consider when spraying a legume for maintenance with Roundup.

Usually May is not a droughty month so you shouldn't have a problem. OK, no drought and you are located in southern lower Mich. It bears repeating for others who may try to follow the folllowing advice. One should not spray the year of planting and I very seldom spray Roundup even the second year. Let the root system develope first. 

I have maintenance sprayed legumes with Roundup every month during the spring and summer to find the right timing for best results. You want the existing grass and weeds to have some growth (4 inches minimum, preferably 6) due to the rapid growth during the very early growth period. This rapid growth stymies the effect of Roundup. So, spray in lower Mich. sometime in early to mid May. OK, we got the timing correct or do we? If the conditions are really dry do not spray. Wait for it to be better and spray. I have even killed birdsfoot trefoil in a dry period with spraying and as most of you know birdsfoot trefoil is darn near impossible to kill with Roundup. It seems to give it a spurt of growth.

You need one quart of Roundup per acre to do the job and add one quart of the ammonium sulfate to it. Before you spray inspect the amount of legumes still existing in the old field. If you have a lot of clover and much grass you may elect to not add any legume seed after you spray. If you do add more seed it doesn't need to be very much, at most, half of the orginal rate should do. Yes, add one lb of chicory per acre with it. That's all there is to it.

The above will almost always work fine for first time three year old legume plot sprayings and not bad for every other year subsequent maintenance. As always bogey men will appear. It is a judgement call and I hesitate somewhat for the following advice, but if your plot really looks shot, what have you got to lose. So, here goes. 

Swamp ghost you should not have a problem with the above procedure, Mike with that 11 year old field think about the following. I have good luck so hopefully so will you. Spray the same as above when conditions are moist for the first spraying. Wait at least three weeks for many of those old grass and weed seeds lying on or just below the surface to germinate. If no rain wait some more until you see those bad guys appearing. Then spray again the same way. You have pretty much killed off the old grass and weeds and quite a few new ones that emerged with the second spraying. You have also given the good guys a hard time.

Now after the second spraying broadcast those seeds and cultipack at least twice. If you want to add more seeds fine, make that part of your judgement call Mike. Can you see the complexity I added to the picture? This is why I generally do not add the above for older and dirtier plots. I do OK and If there is not satisfaction, what have we lost. You can work up that double sprayed field and start all over again so, little is lost, but much may be gained especially experience. Now you guys know part of what I mean and have experienced when I say " I have learned much from trial and error, mostly error".


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## Swamp Ghost

Areas of my plot have experienced a bad invasion of bull thistle and I plant to hit these areas with the round up. I sprayed an area of this field last year in preparation for RR corn with a full strength glyophosate spraying and the clover bounced right back, even after a pretty good disking. It was by far the biggest area of attraction in the entire field, tender new growth, they also liked my corn seedlings too! LOL!


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## mike hartges

Thanks, Ed.


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## MAGNUS

Questions regarding maintenance-spraying with Roundup:

First: When you are using a "quart per acre", what strength (%) Roundup is considered standard? 

Second: My routine has been to frost-seed new seed into my existing clover/alfalfa stand each March. The deer hit it very hard during the winters, to the point of tearing out the roots in many areas. So this seems to work well as far as replacing the clover. BUT since I always have a rotation of young seed I imagine if I would try Ed's maintenance spraying with Roundup I'd probably kill off that young seed. I'd really like to it though, since these fields are going into their 4th year and each year get more and more broadleaf weeds mixing in.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions...


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## mike hartges

A 2% solution of Roundup is usually adequate for most weeds. Some weeds may need a bit stronger solution. I put 1 quart of roundup or generic equivilent along with 1 quart of SPRAYABLE ammonium sulphate in my sprayer with 15 gallons of water. That works well for me. My propert is in Hillsdale county and we get lots of weed growth. I compared our weed growth to the weed growth on my brother's property in Menominee county and we have substantially more weeds than they get up there.


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## Andy

there is enough information in this post alone to keep all of us foodplotters busy and thinking this upcoming spring! thanks for all the offerings guys!

andy


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## sagittarius

MAGNUS said:


> Questions regarding maintenance-spraying with Roundup:
> 
> First: When you are using a "quart per acre", what strength (%) Roundup is considered standard?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions...


That would be 41% to 51% depending on what generic brand.


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## answerguy8

Swamp Ghost said:


> Areas of my plot have experienced a bad invasion of bull thistle and I plant to hit these areas with the round up.


I see by it's scientific name that Bull Thistle is not very well liked.

Cirsium horridulum

http://www.noble.org/imagegallery/Forbhtml/Forbs1-50/F501.JPG


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## Lew

The thistle, probably the Bull Thistle, has been my hardest weed to control. In a well fertilized field, they grow to over 6 feet high and choke out all other plants. I sprayed last August and plan to spray twice this year before I plant and hopefully knock these fellows out. They also produce thousands of seeds when mature, so it is goning to be a battle. Lew


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## answerguy8

Lew said:


> The thistle, probably the Bull Thistle, has been my hardest weed to control. In a well fertilized field, they grow to over 6 feet high and choke out all other plants. I sprayed last August and plan to spray twice this year before I plant and hopefully knock these fellows out. They also produce thousands of seeds when mature, so it is goning to be a battle. Lew


I think I would slather on some sun screen and go after them with mechanical means, before they seed.


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