# Semi off grid living..



## USMarine2001 (Feb 23, 2010)

Looking to get some hunting property in the near future (2-3 years out/maybe sooner if price is right). The plan is to build a semi off grid cabin/hunting cabin. I would like something semi livable for up to three weeks at a time, so ideally it would need elec, heat, and some source of water. I am thinking a pole barn building and to finish if off. Cost for building (shell) would be on the low side.

Depending on what is available locally (power lines). Granted if power lines are close enough it would be worth the $20 or so a month to have direct power. My Uncle had this done at his property in Atlanta Mi, as use of power was on the low side $20 a month for all that was used. So lets just say for now there are no line's near/cost worthy to tap into. Thought is one of those generac home back-up generator's to run off propane. Just don't want the normal $600 running due to sound.

A 250 gal propane tank will be added for heat( added stove too) and elec as stated above. 250 tank should last a year, maybe more? Family works in HVAC so I can get furnace/water heater at cost...

Now for the fun part, water. Would like to be able to a shower(quick one for sure) and toilet (small self installed septic tank). Thinking a hand pump, you know like the days way back when. But I have zero knowledge of them. Or would a small power well be worth it? Would like to have use of water on property but dont want to winterize if that sense?

So for those semi-off grid or off grid, what are some of your thought's, lesson's learned...


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

My electric bill is about $150 per year at camp. 
Fridge, chest freezer are the big loads.
Wood for heat. Camp is well insulated.
Outhouse is on a holding tank.
Hand pump on 4" steel cased drilled well ~140' deep.
Water for clean up is heated on the propane full sized stove.
Shower stall is gravity fed.
The camp still has propane lighting for back up.

Some years I spend 6 months a year out at camp so a 3 week stint should be a walk in the park.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

When you want all the comforts of home, you aren't off grid.
2 winters ago the propane people quit delivering to camps in the UP because of the shortage. FWIW.
We use wood at our camp. Oil lamps, no electric. Wood fired cookstove w/ side saddle water tank.
It's off grid. 

We've been thinking about solar led lighting but the battery bank is expensive, and they don't last. 
If I were starting from raw land purchase, before I spent a dime, I'd make sure the water tasted good and was clear. Ask neighboring property owners or the local well driller.


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

Be careful when asking a well driller about the water. Some well drillers drill for wet. Good well drillers drill for good water.

I would trust the neighbors over a well driller.


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## JPK (Aug 11, 2014)

U.S. Marine; If really off grid. Heat with wood if you have free access to it, and a portable propane heater for back up. Lights, oil lamps as gamekeeper mentioned. Haul up water, or get near by if possible. If for 3 weeks, how do you plan to keep your perishable foods cold. A root cellar of something? A town nearby to get bagged ice for your coolers?
Other option; Haul up your own full tanks of propane. Can use for propane stove and heater / furnace. A Big Buddy mr. heater on high puts out 118,000 btu's per hr. A pound of propane puts out 21,600 btu's. . So with heater on high a 20 lb. tank would last 5.47 hrs., set on med. 10.94 hrs etc.etc. But of course for lights, fridge, and anything else, a small portable generator ??. If you have power near by. It is not cheap to tap into power at the pole. I think it may run you $20.00 per ft. +/-. So do you want to be off grid, on grid, or a little of both.
I understand what you are saying. Good luck to you.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

If you are going to shop generators, there's a low rpm Honda that will power a camp very well, and sips fuel. The key is the low rpm, it means low noise, and the noise is at a frequency that is less disturbing. It's a low, deep, noise.

When setting up rendezvous camps for when society breaks down, the Gov't collapses, and the race war begins, pay attention to your noise profile, and thermal image. People will be hunting the hum of cheap generators. Well, actually the supplies that accompany their noise.


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## JPK (Aug 11, 2014)

Right on Gamekeeper. Also a well insulated box outside cuts down on generator noise also. As long as you have a fresh air intake and route the exhaust out through the wall.


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## JimP (Feb 8, 2002)

Lighting can also be done with propane as well as refrigeration.
There are mantle type wall lamps you can hook together with copper tubing and flare fittings to a splitter off your tank regulator. (Don't use compression fittings as they are susceptible to leaks after a re-tightening a time or two...)
Much cleaner and safer than oil or white gas.
A propane fridge from an old camper/motor home uses very little fuel once it's cool, and they're gravity operated or something like that, no motors or pumps.
The only electricity needed would be a deep cell battery(s) for broadcast radio or CB, small 12v B&W TV or small 12v table fan. Back in the day we recharged in a vehicle or in town, nowadays you can get solar chargers.


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## JPK (Aug 11, 2014)

All good points jimp !


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## starky (Jun 19, 2006)

JPK said:


> All good points jimp !


Our place up north has a well and septic that I use the generator to fill the well tank. We have a propane frig, gas lights, gas stove, wood for heat and can run electric lights from a battery and inverter.


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## JPK (Aug 11, 2014)

Some good options for U.S. Marine to think about.Mix and match whatever suits his needs.


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## JimP (Feb 8, 2002)

starky said:


> Our place up north has a well and septic that I use the generator to fill the well tank. We have a propane frig, gas lights, gas stove, wood for heat and can run electric lights from a battery and inverter.


There are regular household sized 12v light bulbs that fit common fixtures and can be run direct off a battery circuit.
I use one in the ceiling of an isolated shed away from any electric line, wall switch and all.


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## JPK (Aug 11, 2014)

Yeah. I've used those bulbs in a trouble light that I kept in the car. Cut off the plug end and put on alligator clips to hook to battery.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

Hand pump and outhouse. Stove, refrigerator and lights are propane. Heat is supplied by a wood burner made out of half of an old boiler. Water is heated on the stove, wood burner or campfire. Most dinners are cooked outside on the campfire. The cabin is wired with lights and wall outlets for the few times the generator is running, but we went for years without a generator. We need it now to charge our phones. :lol:


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## WinMag (Dec 19, 2004)

There's really no such thing as semi off-grid. You're either hooked up to the grid or you're not. I've thought this through because I now have a house on the grid in northern Michigan that I don't use much. The kids are growing up, the wife lost interest and I don't have as much time to enjoy the house as I thought and the lakefront house is larger than I need for a deer camp if I'm just using it by myself or with a couple of friends.

The electric utility is Great Lakes Energy and they no longer offer quarterly billing for recreational property owners. All of their customers are now billed monthly and my bill is about $33 per month when everything is shut off at the main breaker for months at a time. That's roughly $400 per year just to be hooked up to the grid. You're not going to disconnect from the grid and reconnect at will. Once you're connected, it is expensive to disconnect and reconnect.

I'm now planning to sell the house and find some land where I can build a rustic cabin off-grid. My plans have come together over the last couple of years and my main heat source will be wood. I will have a well and septic because the area where I plan to build requires it. The well can be hand pumped. I hate to have a large propane tank in the yard but I can run a propane oven from a 20 pound tank.

I plan to build my cabin so there really won't be a need for electric service from the utility. Lights and cell phone charging can be done from 12 volt batteries, solar cells and a generator. I have a very quiet running 1000 watt generator that can be used to charge cell phones and deep cycle batteries. A large generator won't be necessary. Judicious placement of windows will provide plenty of light.

If you're deciding between on-grid of off grid, go off-grid. In most cases, you will be able to hook up later if you pay to run wires to your cabin. But after you work out the details of living off-grid, you won't want to be bothered with an electric bill for a cabin that you only use occasionally.


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## Michael Wagner (Jul 17, 2007)

We thought about the same thing, we built this 10 yrs ago. Camper has the amenities and a 12' X 14' cabin connects to the back door. Small generator keeps batts charged and a vented propane wall furnace keeps us comfortable in the winter.




  








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Michael Wagner


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Michael Wagner


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Dec 3, 2011


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

Hunting property with electric available close by will be significantly more expensive than off-the-grid lands. I stay at my off-the-grid cabin extensively during the fall. My cabin is wire for DC. I have six LED lights in the camp, on the porch and for the shed. I also have a backup, propane lights that I haven't used in years. My main heat source is a wood stove with a backup, vent free propane heater that I use when is is chilly, but not cold enough for the wood stove. Cooking is done on a propane stove and a gas grill with a camp stove outside, under the porch too. My DC power system is powered by three, deep cycle, marine batteries. Right now I have a small solar panel to help keep the batteries charged, but next year I plan to upgrade that system to 100 watts of solar charging. Besides lighting, my only other electrical needs are a radio, charging my cell phone, and running a cell phone signal booster when I want to make a call. I only use a generator when I have a building project that requires power tools. I haul my drinking water from home in five gallon jugs. Going through about 5 gallons in two weeks. Wash water comes from rain water that I collect off the roof from gutters that run through a series of filters. A gravity fed shower works great. I have a hand pump well that I installed a few years ago, but that water is crappy and that well project was a waste of time and money. For spraying my food plots, I just pump water from a water hole or a stream that flows through my property. I have a couple good (five day) coolers that use to keep perishables in. One of my possible 2017 projects is to install a Grape Solar DC refrigerator/freezer which I already have. That will require 200 watts of solar though which will be another upgrade.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

We have a cabin that is connected to the grid, and a generac backup generator. Last summer we had a storm that knocked out power, when nobody was up. The gennie drank 30% of a 500 gallon tank of propane in about 3 days, keep the fridge, a couple small lights, and some clocks going. Crazy. But it will power the entire cabin if we need it to - electric stove, dishwasher, and all.


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## WinMag (Dec 19, 2004)

Michael Wagner said:


> We thought about the same thing, we built this 10 yrs ago...





Trophy Specialist said:


> Hunting property with electric available close by will be significantly more expensive than off-the-grid lands. I stay at my off-the-grid cabin extensively during the fall. My cabin is wire for DC. ...


Michael Wagner and Trophy Specialist, those are very inspirational off-grid stories and it's the kind of thing I'm planning. My location is flexible but I prefer to be in the northwest lower peninsula. Can you tell where your cabins are located and what kind of building permit process you had to go through? From what I'm learning, permitting is the largest hurdle to clear.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

WinMag said:


> Michael Wagner and Trophy Specialist, those are very inspirational off-grid stories and it's the kind of thing I'm planning. My location is flexible but I prefer to be in the northwest lower peninsula. Can you tell where your cabins are located and what kind of building permit process you had to go through? From what I'm learning, permitting is the largest hurdle to clear.


I am in the U.P. Where I am at, as long as the camp is small and off the grid (no electric service or water), then no permit is required. My renovated camp is only about 400 square feet, which is plenty big for my needs. I know some guys that built a big cabin near me there and they had to go through the permit process, which was not really that big of a deal.

My BIL has a pole barn on his hunting property in the NLP. He has power/well/septic there and just uses a camper there. He can use the camper other places too. He stores it in the barn when not in use along with his other toys. It works well for him. I have a pole barn on hunting property in Arenac Co. I have a living quarters built into it, which is a nice setup and fairly common in that area and elsewhere. There are lots of options.


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