# Training my Borador



## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

So my girlfriend really wanted to make me happy and get me a dog for christmas. I had been yearning for a lab for quite some time to become my hunting partner, and she set her sights to get me one. Well she did, but she did not notice that the dog was not pure black lab, but rather a black lab border collie mix. I believe they call this a Borador. I have been doing a lot of reading regarding training mixed breed dogs with varying opinions. I know the importance of having good genetics and parents that hunt and what not, but i have also heard a lot of people who claim to have mixed breeds that hunt with the best of them.

My pup is 12 weeks old now and he is getting big fast. He has great webbing on his big ol paws. He is a relatively calm dog, but he does like to run around and play with my room mates mastiff. He is really brave, punching well above his class against his 100 lb friend, and does not seem to get tired easily. He fetches his toys a little bit, but more prefers to chase them around. HOWEVER, I have a half dozen clipped mallard wings that I had laying around from my last hunt, and when I whip them across the yard he goes and retrieves them for me, and brings them to hand about 80% of the time. the other 20% he will get distracted by a neighbors car door or something, or want to go inside (assuming because of the cold). It is very encouraging that he retrieves the wings for me (and does so repeatedly) but he does not have insane amounts of drive or anything (I dont even know if i should notice a ton of drive yet though). He is a fairly calm dog but he bounds happily to the wing on each throw. Oh, and he watched a flock of passing geese in the sky yesterday. That made me happy.

I get waves of worry when he chooses to not get the wing, or to touch it and run a little bit more, but then he brings it to hand and nixes those fears. So i am in a constant wave of how to feel about my new friend. The fact that he is border collie gives him some added intelligence, so I am hoping that this will turn into ability to hunt, but I am not sure if intelligence will trump drive. He seems to want to make me happy, and im sure that will grow as i have only had him for 2 weeks.

I was just wondering if anyone had any tips for trying to begin a dogs training in the winter, and if there are any additional steps i should take with a lab-mix. Or if anyone has any positive mix breed stories to boost my confidence in him. I love the guy, and i really really want him to become my duck dog. So with that, here is my pup vader the day after i got him.


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

ajkulish said:


> So my girlfriend really wanted to make me happy and get me a dog for christmas. I had been yearning for a lab for quite some time to become my hunting partner, and she set her sights to get me one. Well she did, but she did not notice that the dog was not pure black lab, but rather a black lab border collie mix. I believe they call this a Borador. I have been doing a lot of reading regarding training mixed breed dogs with varying opinions. I know the importance of having good genetics and parents that hunt and what not, but i have also heard a lot of people who claim to have mixed breeds that hunt with the best of them.
> 
> My pup is 12 weeks old now and he is getting big fast. He has great webbing on his big ol paws. He is a relatively calm dog, but he does like to run around and play with my room mates mastiff. He is really brave, punching well above his class against his 100 lb friend, and does not seem to get tired easily. He fetches his toys a little bit, but more prefers to chase them around. HOWEVER, I have a half dozen clipped mallard wings that I had laying around from my last hunt, and when I whip them across the yard he goes and retrieves them for me, and brings them to hand about 80% of the time. the other 20% he will get distracted by a neighbors car door or something, or want to go inside (assuming because of the cold). It is very encouraging that he retrieves the wings for me (and does so repeatedly) but he does not have insane amounts of drive or anything (I dont even know if i should notice a ton of drive yet though). He is a fairly calm dog but he bounds happily to the wing on each throw. Oh, and he watched a flock of passing geese in the sky yesterday. That made me happy.
> 
> ...


 We have a couple borders and they will retrieve anything. With a border they will do anything if you can explain to them what you want. Borders tend to be very high drive and even obsessive if they understand something to be their job. I would think a border lab cross would make a fine duck dog. Our older border was as good a blood trailing recovery dog as you could ever hope for.


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## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

plugger said:


> We have a couple borders and they will retrieve anything. With a border they will do anything if you can explain to them what you want. Borders tend to be very high drive and even obsessive if they understand something to be their job. I would think a border lab cross would make a fine duck dog. Our older border was as good a blood trailing recovery dog as you could ever hope for.


Wow, thats very encouraging because id like to use the dog for anything i can. maybe seeking out rabbits or something like that too. 

Also, my apologies for posting in the upland forum, I misunderstood the title and thought everything dog and dog training was in here as well. mods, feel free to toss this over into the waterfowl section.


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

Here is my wife's young dog he found my turkey this spring while I taking my camo off. He did not know what it was but he figured if he took it to mom she would know what to do with it.


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## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

HAHA that is pretty impressive. Beautiful dog as well!


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

Nikki with a deer.


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## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

That is really awesome, did she find it for you? 

I had read that using collies to hunt for their intelligence was once a common practice that has since died off. Looks like that might be the case!


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

ajkulish said:


> That is really awesome, did she find it for you?
> 
> I had read that using collies to hunt for their intelligence was once a common practice that has since died off. Looks like that might be the case!


 Yes she found it. It was a deer I shot with a bow and had only a few drops of blood. I looked for an hour before dark and almost two hours after dark sure I had a good hit but unable to find any sign. My wife got out to the farm where I was hunting and within 5 minutes found the deer under a blowdown. The had only gone 120 yards but I would not of found it until the next morning. I read on the ag and in talking to farmers that many who live in the Midwest have good success using border or border cross farm dogs on pheasant. Our borders also love to swim. My wife does agility at the national level so she has to keep the dogs in top condition so she uses water retrieves to help condition in the summer. It's not uncommon for borders to run till they drop in high heat weather. Some of them are so driven they don't have an off button.


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

The older dog has a hundred plus tracks. This is the young with I believe his second solo find.


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## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

That is really awesome, thanks for all the great info. On water retrieves do you use a bumper or tennis ball? i would like to introduce Vader to a bumper but i zip tied some wings to a water bottle the other day and it was too big for him to want to try to pick up.


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

ajkulish said:


> That is really awesome, thanks for all the great info. On water retrieves do you use a bumper or tennis ball? i would like to introduce Vader to a bumper but i zip tied some wings to a water bottle the other day and it was too big for him to want to try to pick up.


 We use a bumper. My wife shies away from tennis balls and uses ball without fuzz. They say if do a lot of retrieving with tennis balls the fuzz holds sand which is hard on their teeth. A bumper or even a bird is squashy so they don't have to get the whole thing in their mouth.
My wife reinforces her outside retrieving with a game called bring me. In the evening she sets an item down and tell the dog bring me and then reward when they do. As you do this for a while they learn there job is to bring what ever you tell them Our dogs work well with out, right ,left and in.


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## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

how often do you practice this with the dogs?


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

ajkulish said:


> how often do you practice this with the dogs?


 She kind of goes in spells but a couple of reps probably 4 days a week. Almost every evening she does some kind of game with them . Sometimes obedience related some conditioning stretching balance related. And a lot of tricks. dead dog, over, crawling forward, crawling backward was the hardest. Spins etcetera. Sometimes she will give an object to the dog and have them bring it to me.


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## Socks (Jan 8, 2007)

He's young and he'll be what he'll be. He's your dog now and you've got nothing to lose by training him. At worse he won't Hunt, but you'll have a kick ass bud. At best he'll Hunt and you'll have a kick as bud. Close the doors in a hallway. Do 3 fetches a day and don't wear him out. Make it fun and praise him when he brings it back like he's the best dog in the world.


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## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

plugger said:


> She kind of goes in spells but a couple of reps probably 4 days a week. Almost every evening she does some kind of game with them . Sometimes obedience related some conditioning stretching balance related. And a lot of tricks. dead dog, over, crawling forward, crawling backward was the hardest. Spins etcetera. Sometimes she will give an object to the dog and have them bring it to me.


wow that is all very impressive. must put a lot of time into the tricks.



Socks said:


> He's young and he'll be what he'll be. He's your dog now and you've got nothing to lose by training him. At worse he won't Hunt, but you'll have a kick ass bud. At best he'll Hunt and you'll have a kick as bud. Close the doors in a hallway. Do 3 fetches a day and don't wear him out. Make it fun and praise him when he brings it back like he's the best dog in the world.


I mean, i dont have the means to have two dogs really, and the primary reason i wanted a dog was for the hunt. If he doesn't hunt, he will end up as my girlfriends dog. But i really dont want to let that happen. 

I have been doing about 10 or 15 fetches a day in the back yard (loves the snow) but maybe keeping it low and simple like that is the way to go. keeping it fun sounds like a good idea.


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

Plenty of mixed breeds out there in the duck blinds. Only issue with mixed breeds would be the same as with a purebred lab, whether they have that instinct and willingness to learn. If your dog's got it, he's got it. But now YOU have to follow through and work the dog through a training program. It sounds like your dog could easily be a great retriever. 

The fact that he's half border collie is a plus compared to many other non-retrieving breeds to mix with, as they are HIGHLY intelligent and love to learn. Channel that, and just see how far you can take the dog. 



ajkulish said:


> I get waves of worry when he chooses to not get the wing, or to touch it and run a little bit more, but then he brings it to hand and nixes those fears.


I would not worry about this at this age. Puppies are puppies. My lab came from very strong hunting lines, and did that plenty when he was a young pup. Now he's a retrieving machine. Find a training program, follow it and stick to it.


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

ajkulish said:


> I have been doing about 10 or 15 fetches a day in the back yard (loves the snow) but maybe keeping it low and simple like that is the way to go. keeping it fun sounds like a good idea.


You got it. Keep it short and fun. Be ready to ramp things up in a few months with obedience, and then more disciplined retriever work thereafter. Strong obedience is a must-have foundation. All of this can be found in most all retriever training programs.


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## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

Great advice LaMarsh. Maybe we could even meet up some day and your dog could show my dog what its like to be a badass, I'm just over in oak park near the detroit zoo. 

Vader has been picking up pretty well on obedience. I just got him to come when i whistle. If i dont know where he is, ill just whistle a little and he will come bounding from where ever he was smelling around, and sit down in front of me. He literally just got the hang of potty training 2 days ago (i dont wanna jinx that) and after that happened he started to get more of the obedience stuff. He will now sit and stay at my command as well. 

Do you have any recommendations on a training program?


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## Tomfive5 (Dec 15, 2015)

Hallway training worked great for me when my dog was young last winter. There is no other place they can go but back to you. I would occasionally give treats for the retrieve but mostly just a lot of praise. I got a lot of advice from people who told me that even as the dog gets a little older to not get mad at them if they suddenly don't retrieve. If the dog looks like the are losing interest then stop. Keeps it fun and stress free for you and the dog. 
I had the same feelings as you did last winter. Everytime a bird flew by or landed in the yard and he didn't chase I got worried that he would never hunt! We forget to easily that they are just puppies. If your dog is bringing back the wing 80% of the time then that's a pretty good start.


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## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

Tomfive5 said:


> Hallway training worked great for me when my dog was young last winter. There is no other place they can go but back to you. I would occasionally give treats for the retrieve but mostly just a lot of praise. I got a lot of advice from people who told me that even as the dog gets a little older to not get mad at them if they suddenly don't retrieve. If the dog looks like the are losing interest then stop. Keeps it fun and stress free for you and the dog.
> I had the same feelings as you did last winter. Everytime a bird flew by or landed in the yard and he didn't chase I got worried that he would never hunt! We forget to easily that they are just puppies. If your dog is bringing back the wing 80% of the time then that's a pretty good start.


That a good idea, i dont really have any long hallways like that but he has been pretty good with bringing back the tennis ball when i throw it in the living room or kitchen. I can probably do a little more work with the hallway stuff at my girlfriends house though!

and yeah, the other day he was about 5 feet from some morning doves and just stared at them, didnt chase them. That worried me, but mostly because this is my first puppy and i dont know how much drive i should be looking for! But im happy that he seems to be on the right track.


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

Another thing I would encourage greatly is to socialize your pup, both with people and other dogs. I have had two labs both female that were great hunters. The first I had was fine with people but not with other dogs, the second was ultra territorial with people and dogs. Neither of these were socialized well and there job was to defend the farm. They took on coyotes around livestock and ***** in the garden. This was fine on the farm but when you left the farm they still thought other dogs should be killed. Our male dogs have been less aggressive than the females we have had.


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## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

One notable thing i forgot to mention that kind of reflects what plugger was saying about the tracking and sense of smell: last week i put a couple duck wings in the yard and hid them in some brush and under some leaves to see if he would find them. when he was just discovering the yard he did not have much interest in exploring so much, just walking around with me. I ultimately picked them up to preserve their scent and condition, but i forgot to pick up one of the duck wings after I put them out. Then we had all that snow one day. I was walking him around to take a poo and he was sniffing along the edge of the yard, and stopped all of a sudden and plunged his head through about 6 inches of snow and pulled up the wing i had forgotten. That made me very excited about his ability to find lost birds.


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## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

plugger said:


> Another thing I would encourage greatly is to socialize your pup, both with people and other dogs. I have had two labs both female that were great hunters. The first I had was fine with people but not with other dogs, the second was ultra territorial with people and dogs. Neither of these were socialized well and there job was to defend the farm. They took on coyotes around livestock and ***** in the garden. This was fine on the farm but when you left the farm they still thought other dogs should be killed. Our male dogs have been less aggressive than the females we have had.


I absolutely agree. Like i said in the OP he lives with a 100 lb mastiff and they play plenty without ever getting too rough. He also hangs out with my girlfriends old yellow lab and her cousins golden and they get along really well.


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

ajkulish said:


> Great advice LaMarsh. Maybe we could even meet up some day and your dog could show my dog what its like to be a badass, I'm just over in oak park near the detroit zoo.
> 
> Vader has been picking up pretty well on obedience. I just got him to come when i whistle. If i dont know where he is, ill just whistle a little and he will come bounding from where ever he was smelling around, and sit down in front of me. He literally just got the hang of potty training 2 days ago (i dont wanna jinx that) and after that happened he started to get more of the obedience stuff. He will now sit and stay at my command as well.
> 
> Do you have any recommendations on a training program?


We can definitely meet and train. And you should consider joining our HRC club--that is the best resource for training advice, grounds and gear. We meet every Thursday for training sessions at Wetzel in Lenox, about 35 mins away, from roughly snow melt until the hunting season begins. Check out our facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/scfhrc/

But we can also meet locally some time and take turns throwing marks for our dogs, once your pup gets a bit older. Always looking for training buddies close by. 

As for a training program, it seems the general consensus among the experienced hobby trainers as well as pros is with the Lardy program. It is pricey though. I have used Rick Stawski's "Fowl Dawgs," and it has worked pretty well. It's a 4 disk DVD set, and the whole set is about $90, or you can buy each individual DVD as well. You might consider just ordering the puppy DVD (Disk 1) and see if you like it. There are also several others, as well as many books. The key is finding something and sticking with it.


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## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

Lamarsh said:


> We can definitely meet and train. And you should consider joining our HRC club--that is the best resource for training advice, grounds and gear. We meet every Thursday for training sessions at Wetzel in Lenox, about 35 mins away, from roughly snow melt until the hunting season begins. Check out our facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/scfhrc/
> 
> But we can also meet locally some time and take turns throwing marks for our dogs, once your pup gets a bit older. Always looking for training buddies close by.
> 
> As for a training program, it seems the general consensus among the experienced hobby trainers as well as pros is with the Lardy program. It is pricey though. I have used Rick Stawski's "Fowl Dawgs," and it has worked pretty well. It's a 4 disk DVD set, and the whole set is about $90, or you can buy each individual DVD as well. You might consider just ordering the puppy DVD (Disk 1) and see if you like it. There are also several others, as well as many books. The key is finding something and sticking with it.


Yeah, I will see where he stands after a little while and try to shape him up a bit before anything like that, but i am definitely interested in a club. I will look into the programs and do a little bit of research on them and see where i stand. Thanks for the direction, and i look forward to getting our dogs together! As much fun as the puppy phase is, I am really excited for him to be big so i can really get going with him. Its all really exciting.


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

ajkulish said:


> Yeah, I will see where he stands after a little while and try to shape him up a bit before anything like that, but i am definitely interested in a club. I will look into the programs and do a little bit of research on them and see where i stand. Thanks for the direction, and i look forward to getting our dogs together! As much fun as the puppy phase is, I am really excited for him to be big so i can really get going with him. Its all really exciting.


Sounds good man. Stay in touch.


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

ajkulish said:


> Yeah, I will see where he stands after a little while and try to shape him up a bit before anything like that, but i am definitely interested in a club. I will look into the programs and do a little bit of research on them and see where i stand. Thanks for the direction, and i look forward to getting our dogs together! As much fun as the puppy phase is, I am really excited for him to be big so i can really get going with him. Its all really exciting.


 If you have a chance to train with experienced people jump at it. My wife does agility at the national level and she still takes lessons and trains with other people even though she has to drive two hours to do so. Even with mature dogs you run into issues and some one standing back can see where the break down is. If your inexperienced at training going and watching people work is so valuable. Take your pup and do one small thing. Training is just building one small step after another. One thing that I notice about top handlers is when something doesn't go right they invariably ask the other experienced people, 'What did I do wrong"? People are generally much harder to train dogs. Border collies stay in an adolescent stage longer than some other dogs, this can sometimes be frustrating but also gives you a longer window. When things aren't going right remember dogs seldom do the wrong thing on purpose. Most problems or lack of progress are communication and training issues. Again working with more experienced people will shorten your road by many miles. I have no doubt that if you do your job you will have at worst an adequate duck dog and at best an exceptional dog. I cant stress enough how important it is to take advantage of other peoples help.


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## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

A little update on him, i got to expose him to a farm for the first time and he loved it. He loved running through the woods and leaping over logs, and actually spent a fair amount of time following a set of deer tracks in the snow. Later in the day I exposed him to shooting, and he didnt seem to mind it much at all. he did a little circle next to me when i shot but he didnt make any attempt to run away or anything like that. Good news!


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

ajkulish said:


> A little update on him, i got to expose him to a farm for the first time and he loved it. He loved running through the woods and leaping over logs, and actually spent a fair amount of time following a set of deer tracks in the snow. Later in the day I exposed him to shooting, and he didnt seem to mind it much at all. he did a little circle next to me when i shot but he didnt make any attempt to run away or anything like that. Good news!


Nice. Careful with interest in deer, especially if you plan on upland hunting with him. It's good he didn't react to the gun shots, but I recommend walking him through a step by step sound conditioning process. Jumping right to gunfire is too risky, and just because he was fine one moment, doesn't mean he'll be ok next time, all it takes is for the sound to reverberate strangely off of something and give the dog a jump to make things very difficult for you.


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## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

Lamarsh said:


> Nice. Careful with interest in deer, especially if you plan on upland hunting with him. It's good he didn't react to the gun shots, but I recommend walking him through a step by step sound conditioning process. Jumping right to gunfire is too risky, and just because he was fine one moment, doesn't mean he'll be ok next time, all it takes is for the sound to reverberate strangely off of something and give the dog a jump to make things very difficult for you.


I don't upland hunt at all, never had any success so I'm not too worried about that. And I introduced him to loud noises around the house a few times before the gunfire. And I worked in to the gun over quite a few shots and rewarded him after each shot and told him how good he was. He probably won't see gunfire for a while, just wanted to see where he stood.


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

ajkulish said:


> I don't upland hunt at all, never had any success so I'm not too worried about that. And I introduced him to loud noises around the house a few times before the gunfire. And I worked in to the gun over quite a few shots and rewarded him after each shot and told him how good he was. He probably won't see gunfire for a while, just wanted to see where he stood.


Nice. Next step might be to incorporate gun fire into retrieving. If he's retrieving nicely, have a buddy or family member toss a bumper at a distance and as they toss it fire off a starter pistol (the thrower fires the pistol, so the sound is at a distance), while your dog is at heel. This associates the positive/fun aspect of the retrieve with the noise, making the noise positive, as well as coupling a mark with gunfire, which is a natural combination in the duck blind. We can meet up and do this kind of stuff as well if you can't find a thrower.


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## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

Certainly! I was planning on mixing the 2, but I need some less snow. He is still too small to want to pick up something as substantial as a bumper but when it thaws I plan on combining the two. Still working with wing retrieves in the back yard and he is doing well, just want that to really sink in before I go much further. What do you think?


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

ajkulish said:


> Certainly! I was planning on mixing the 2, but I need some less snow. He is still too small to want to pick up something as substantial as a bumper but when it thaws I plan on combining the two. Still working with wing retrieves in the back yard and he is doing well, just want that to really sink in before I go much further. What do you think?


That sounds like a good plan. You can buy puppy bumpers, they are much smaller and made to be easy for a pup to pick up. Don't let him play with them or chew them though, they are for training only. You can also use a balled up pair of socks indoors. Just keep it fun for now, making sure to give much praise when he brings it to you. Keep the sessions short and fun. Puppies get bored quickly, and it's not a bad sign if they just stop wanting to play retriever games when they're that young. I like multiple 5 minute sessions a day. I would avoid sessions exceeding 15 minutes until he's older. 

Retrieving aside, the MAIN focus right now is solid obedience work. Even if he sits and comes on command, you have to keep that up and be consistent. Work on heel, and making him sit at heel. It won't all come together immediately, it has to be a work in progress. Everything is based on solid obedience training. If that is never established, or somehow unwinds, everything else (retriever training, handling, steadiness, etc) can unwind and fall apart.


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## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

Lamarsh said:


> That sounds like a good plan. You can buy puppy bumpers, they are much smaller and made to be easy for a pup to pick up. Don't let him play with them or chew them though, they are for training only. You can also use a balled up pair of socks indoors. Just keep it fun for now, making sure to give much praise when he brings it to you. Keep the sessions short and fun. Puppies get bored quickly, and it's not a bad sign if they just stop wanting to play retriever games when they're that young. I like multiple 5 minute sessions a day. I would avoid sessions exceeding 15 minutes until he's older.
> 
> Retrieving aside, the MAIN focus right now is solid obedience work. Even if he sits and comes on command, you have to keep that up and be consistent. Work on heel, and making him sit at heel. It won't all come together immediately, it has to be a work in progress. Everything is based on solid obedience training. If that is never established, or somehow unwinds, everything else (retriever training, handling, steadiness, etc) can unwind and fall apart.


Yep, I've been taking your advice doing 3 retrieves a day and he is always happy bringing it back. Sometimes gives me a look like he doesn't want to be done yet. But that's better than quitting. I do have to catch him in the right mood to get him to retrieve though. He sleeps a lot since he is growing but when he plays then I take him to retrieve. 

How do you work on heel? I'm not sure at all about that. I make him sit and wait to eat his food when I feed him but other than that I'm clueless haha.


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

ajkulish said:


> Yep, I've been taking your advice doing 3 retrieves a day and he is always happy bringing it back. Sometimes gives me a look like he doesn't want to be done yet. But that's better than quitting. I do have to catch him in the right mood to get him to retrieve though. He sleeps a lot since he is growing but when he plays then I take him to retrieve.
> 
> How do you work on heel? I'm not sure at all about that. I make him sit and wait to eat his food when I feed him but other than that I'm clueless haha.


Sitting and waiting to eat is a good drill. Keep that up. 

A good time to do training or obedience sessions is right after he wakes up from a nap. They are typically somewhat docile for a moment just after waking, and it can often be a great time to train. Sometimes, if the puppy is just nutty and hyper, it's best to just wait until they get all those jitters out to teach the things. 

Honestly, it's tough to explain on to train heel by typing it, and I'm no pro, this was all new to me two years ago. It involves leash manners and using a check cord to teach it. I recommend just buying a training DVD and just watching it carefully. It only takes a few moments for each segment. If I hadn't loaned Fowl Dawgs Disk 1 (the puppy disk) to a buddy who just got a pup, I'd let you come borrow it. I would just order it, it's only like $20, or order something similar. You can also check Freddie Kings videos out on YouTube. I have not used them personally, but I know they exist and that they are free. Not sure about you, but I am much more likely to use a training program that is on DVD than in a book. For some reason I just digest it better and am more likely to commit to it. 

If you order a puppy training DVD I would also order a small puppy check cord if you don't already have one. You want something that loops around his neck like a choke chain. I think Dokken makes one, or you can just order the slimmest/smallest sized check cord from Mendota (they sell them on Amazon).


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## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

Great advice again man, I appreciate it. Finally on break, so I'll start getting into the videos soon.


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

ajkulish said:


> Great advice again man, I appreciate it. Finally on break, so I'll start getting into the videos soon.


Sounds good. Stay in touch. We'll get some sessions in if we get some snow melt, but either way you should plan on trying to meet up with our HRC club this spring just to at least scope it out. I'll send you a PM with my info.


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## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

Im going to continue to use this thread as a progress marker for the dog, so heres a little update.

Vader will be 4 months old this week, and he is so much diffrent than a month ago! i got him at 10 weeks and he was 10 lbs, now he is 16 weeks and 25 lbs. He doesnt sleep as much anymore and his stamina and enthusiasm are really building up. I do about 10 wing retrieves in the back yard each day, sometimes less but he now runs to them instead of trotting to them like he did before. He is now no longer intimidated by his bumper, and mouths it very well when i let him retrieve it. We play fetch in the basement with a tennis ball for about 30 minutes a day and its his favorite thing to do. We also go on walks at least every other day.

He looks to be trending in the right direction, and is very obedient. Very good at sit, stay, here, kennel, place, drop, and even waiting to retrieve what i throw until i tell him he can go. He is still working on heel, but he will get it soon enough. He has lost and replaced all of his front teeth, just waiting on molars and canines. He is very eager to please and im sure this will just keep getting more prominent as he ages. 

I watched most of the Freddie King videos , at least the ones relevant to puppies, and they taught me very good approaches for training this pup. Just cant wait until spring when he can get out and check out a retriever club!

Oh, and after my late season success the little guy could NOT get enough of the ducks in the garage. He would lick and smell them for as long as id let him. And he even retrieved a bluebill from across the garage floor! I was ecstatic!


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

ajkulish said:


> I watched most of the Freddie King videos


Some other guys on here just got me into Bill Hillmann's videos (also free on YouTube), and I like them much better than Freddie King's. Check them out.


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## GDLUCK (Dec 2, 2002)

ajkulish said:


> just wanted to see where he stood.


I cringe when i hear this.........................Absolute worst thing you can do. And I'm very relaxed when compared to most people that train dogs on here.

The dog is learning ALL THE TIME, not just when you are training. example - you do a 10 min training session on sit. dog sits every time you command. AWESOME! but for the rest of the day when you're not training you say sit a dozen different times but the dog is interested in something and ignores you. You do nothing but say sit again and again or just drop it. YOU just TAUGHT the dog that "sit" is a request that doesnt have to be obeyed, not a command that does. 

Get a program. read/watch. UNDERSTAND the theory, not just the step by step. "just want to see" means you have no idea what will happen and will have no idea what to do if it doesn't go well. In the case you mentioned you shoot. dog freaks and runs away. next time it see's the noise maker it freaks out even before the noise. Now you have to go BACKWARDS and UNDO what YOU'VE done before going forward.

you should NEVER be doing anything in regard to training with the "just want to see" plan. If you are "going to see" you should have confidence that you have trained the dog to respond the way you want for that situation. you should always have a plan for if it goes well or if it goes wrong, how to control the wrong response, and how to finish on a positive. 

Next time you find yourself saying "just want to see" STOP!


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