# Cougar confirmed in Berrien County



## Razzo (Feb 17, 2005)

Looks like we have a new wading hazard boys. I waded in that exact area less than two weeks ago. Do the big kitties dislike swimming like the little ones?

http://www.southbendtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051210/News01/512100301/0/FRONTPAGE

YIKES and double YIKES!

Does anyone have any safety tips (in addition to dont go wading there)?


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## born2fish (Aug 1, 2005)

I lived in "real" cougar country (Oregon, Wash St., and Idaho) and my advice is don't give it a second thought!


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## Violator22 (Nov 10, 2004)

Cougars have no problem with water, they actually like it. But as was said, pay it no mind, they are more apt to get away from you than go after you. Les


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## mich buckmaster (Nov 20, 2001)

I talked to some that say it is ligit as can be. I have been in that area in the past, so big land that way. Big talk around my way.


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## wyle_e_coyote (Aug 13, 2004)

I seen a report on channel 3 news about it. One of the vets that did the autopsy on the horse was Dr. Johnson. That's my dogs vet, I hope to pick his brain on the subject at our next appointment. Not sure if he will be willing to talk about it, but I'll still ask. He did say right on TV that the wounds looked feline, not canine. He would not say it was a cougar. I'm don't think that he could, being a vetinarian from MI and not seeing too many victims of cougar attacks.

I would never expected this to be the first place for one to turn up. I always figured the western UP would be a more likely spot. 

Not to sound like a douter, (even though I am/was) it is still possible that it was an escaped or released pet from S. Bend. 
I will abmit the wounds I saw on TV sure looked like large scratches and bite marks on the horses neck. It was not a yote, or wild dog that made the wounds IMO.


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## Steven Arend (Jun 27, 2003)

I have buddies that hunt and live in that area and I have hunted in that area several and its not an isolated area either, it is quite populated around that area. There have been reported sightings in that area since 1995, thats 10 years with out a hunter or trapper getting one. How can this be explained, I believe that it is someones pet that get loose every now and then.

Steve


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## Razzo (Feb 17, 2005)

Violator22 said:


> But as was said, pay it no mind, they are more apt to get away from you than go after you. Les


Also, I have heard, in the event you did find yourself face to face with one, don't run. Stand it off and stare at it. One hunter told me that in the event of an attack, scream (not a problem , yell and fight as they are not used to prey that will defend themselves.

If folks out west, where there are a lot more of these things, "pay them no mind" then one courger shouldn't be a worry.

All things considered, it is interesting news. I figured we'd see a wolf around here before a cougar (seeing how well the wolf population is doing in the UP). BTW: have the wolves spread to the lower UP yet?

Russ


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## Violator22 (Nov 10, 2004)

I would be more concerned with the wolves, as they run in packs, they do not run fromo humans, but will attack. They are a good reason to carry a good pistol when in the UP or Upper LP. A cougar will only go after a human if they are extremely hungry, and then they primarily go after little ones, so yes you have cancerns if you are under 3 1/2' tall. Other than that you should be on the watch anytime you are in the woods. There are things out there scarier than cougars, like your fellow man. That is what scares me. Les


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## mich buckmaster (Nov 20, 2001)

Steven Arend said:


> I have buddies that hunt and live in that area and I have hunted in that area several and its not an isolated area either, it is quite populated around that area. There have been reported sightings in that area since 1995, thats 10 years with out a hunter or trapper getting one. How can this be explained, I believe that it is someones pet that get loose every now and then.
> 
> Steve


I agree totally!!


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

Violator22 said:


> I would be more concerned with the wolves, as they run in packs, they do not run fromo humans, but will attack. They are a good reason to carry a good pistol when in the UP or Upper LP. A cougar will only go after a human if they are extremely hungry, and then they primarily go after little ones, so yes you have cancerns if you are under 3 1/2' tall. Other than that you should be on the watch anytime you are in the woods. There are things out there scarier than cougars, like your fellow man. That is what scares me. Les



Don't forget the backwards walking rotten flesh smelling thing too that is what csres the heck outta me.

AW


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## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

Razzo said:


> BTW: have the wolves spread to the lower UP yet?
> 
> Russ


Yes, it has been confirmed. A guy got one in a trap and shot it thinking it was a coyote. He turned it in realizing it was a wolf and now it is evident they have arrrived in NE Mich, Alpena area I believe. And a couple other sightings have been reported and were supposedly reliable as well.


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## Violator22 (Nov 10, 2004)

Forget turn-in, the three S are what should have been used. :16suspect Les


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## fishotter (Oct 25, 2004)

Your right about worrying about the wolves.This fall i was up in the keewenau peninsula bear hunting and one of the guys that was staying in camp said one evening he got back to his truck and was putting his gear away in the back of the truck when he heard a noise behind him he turned around and there was a wolve standing about 20 yards behind him and staring him down. the guy was scared he was going to come after him so he jump in the back of the truck and crawled through the slider.I now they say there has never been any reports of wolves attacking humans but you never no


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## scoot (Jul 4, 2001)

> There have been reported sightings in that area since 1995, thats 10 years with out a hunter or trapper getting one. How can this be explained, I believe that it is someones pet that get loose every now and then.


I dont disagree but I know people that live near cadillac that have never seen a bear. (Cadillac's surrounding area has the most densely populated bear population in the state). What about the wolverine sighted near the thumb? First one sighted in Michigan in 150 years. Animals senses (especially predators) are much better then ours. If they dont want you to see them you probably wont. 
Just my .02


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## Hooked115 (Nov 10, 2005)

scoot said:


> I dont disagree but I know people that live near cadillac that have never seen a bear. (Cadillac's surrounding area has the most densely populated bear population in the state). What about the wolverine sighted near the thumb? First one sighted in Michigan in 150 years. Animals senses (especially predators) are much better then ours. If they dont want you to see them you probably wont.
> Just my .02


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## MPsteelheader (May 2, 2000)

more than likely it is a pet that got out...

here is one from cass county that was captured and was an illegal pet...

i dont know about you but a cougar isn't my idea of a lifetime companion...


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## Violator22 (Nov 10, 2004)

They taste like good Venison.  Les


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## hypox (Jan 23, 2000)

OMG, I'm never fishing there again. He's gonna eat someone alive!


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## Violator22 (Nov 10, 2004)

Bet he acts just like a big housecat, send him out to Colorado, I'll get him back to his roots. Have a few neighbor dogs i would like to get rid of. :evil: Les


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## bigbucksstop (Dec 29, 2002)

same here god thats scary


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## Razzo (Feb 17, 2005)

scoot said:


> If they dont want you to see them you probably wont.


I am a National Geographic junky when it comes to animal documentaries. I enjoy them all. One I recall Puma, Lion of the Andes lead me to believe that the cougar is one of the most elusive big cats (or predators in general) on Earth. I believe a cougar can stay out of sight if it wants to (no problem).


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## predatordave (Feb 24, 2003)

now if it just happened, isnt there snow on the ground. where are the tracks at? so why dont they call someone with some good cat dogs. i know there are some hound guys here in michigan that actually go out west and hunt the big cats with there dogs. i am sure a good cat hound would track it and tree it. then we could get to the bottom of it all and people could let there pets outside again. yep i believe they can stay out of sight also but they cant erase their tracks behind them.

i think there are some cougars running around but i think they are released pets or escaped pets.

later, dave


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## FISH (Jul 14, 2002)

i know if one comes by me when i'm huntin it's gonna be full of lead. nothin better then shootin cats :lol:


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## jakeo (Sep 14, 2004)

fishotter said:


> Your right about worrying about the wolves.This fall i was up in the keewenau peninsula bear hunting and one of the guys that was staying in camp said one evening he got back to his truck and was putting his gear away in the back of the truck when he heard a noise behind him he turned around and there was a wolve standing about 20 yards behind him and staring him down. the guy was scared he was going to come after him so he jump in the back of the truck and crawled through the slider.I now they say there has never been any reports of wolves attacking humans but you never no


I DO NOT MEAN TO LAUGH BUT, I FOR ONE COULD NOT FIT THRU A TRUCK SLIDER IF I HAD A STICK OF DYNAMITE IN MY POOPER>>>>>>>LMFAOFF!:lol: :help:


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## adjusted3 (Feb 3, 2003)

Bet ya could if you had a WOLF nipping at your butt!!!

Mark


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## anonymous21 (Jul 22, 2005)

If it was a cougar that attacked that horse it must of been pretty hungy to go after something so large,you would also think that there would be more missing livestock and pets in the area.probalily is an escaped or released pet if wild you would think it would of killed that 20 year old horse outright.Some people keep some strange pets these days.Wasn't it a year or two ago that a couple of tigers got loose in Florida they ended up shooting them.Some guy that had once played Tarzan in the movie's had them as pets,at least he reported them missing.


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## scoot (Jul 4, 2001)

When I was at the zoo in Colorado a few years back they had a cougar and a bulletin board. On it they had a family pic with like three kids and in the background off a little ways you could see a cougar staring down the kids. The family had no idea it was there until their pic was developed. Cant imagine bein that family.


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## vancreek (Apr 4, 2004)

you guys crack me up,man is the ultimate predator.why would anyone fear a cat,i just wish i could find a set of one of these tracks myself,out dailly,see ****,bobcat and coyote and bear but have yet to cut a cougar track.dont worry or loose any sleep though cause i will be sure to post pics of the tracks if i do.i sure hope it tries to feast on one of my dogs cause it believe it may have another thing coming.ummm,possible case of lead poisoning.


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## whitedog (May 11, 2003)

hey VC, whats up man? its been over a year sence ive been here lol and I see a few guys have a good head on there shoulders here now days, one guys says theres guys here in michigan with hounds that could tree it, id say bout better than 1500 guys here in michigan have dogs to catch a lion, heck a lion is the easyest cat to tree, thats why the guys out west hate us, cause are dogs dont loose many lions once they jump them, heck a long lion race last half hour after the jump, id sure like to find one of these michigan lions my self, heck id tree him day after day just for fun, id run him to death lol then mount him next to the fire place, but id hate to do something like that to someones pet lol hey lets kill a bobber one of these days and do some photo shopping on it lol have a great day.


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## KEN C (Oct 28, 2002)

Link http://www.easterncougarnet.org/Ok12-14-05.htm
TWO MOUNTAIN LIONS CONFIRMED IN WESTERN OKLAHOMA

Cougar Network News, 12/14/05

On October 29, 2005, Ron Mills, the manager of Black Mesa State Park, encountered two mountain lions traveling together in the park. They were apparently stalking several deer that were bedded near the residence. The larger cat went into the brush before Mr. Mills was able to get a photo, but he was able to get a good photograph of the second smaller cat as it walked away (see below). He later confirmed tracks made by the larger animal. Ron has been the park's manager since 2003.

Black Mesa State Park, established in 1959, is located in Cimarron County, the northwest sector of the Oklahoma Panhandle, northwest of Boise City on Highway #325. I consists of 549 acres of land, of which 259 acres are leased and 90 acres are owned by the state. Lake Carl Etling in the park is a 200 acre lake created by damming Carrizzo Creek.
The Black Mesa itself is eight miles northwest of the park and is also a state park area. Lava from an extinct volcano created the rugged setting of the Black Mesa which is the highest point in Oklahoma, just short of 5000 feet above seal level. Bird watchers, rock and fossil hunters, archeology buffs, campers and anglers, and hikers frequent the park.


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## Freestone (May 15, 2003)

I recently read in the John Ball Park Zoo News magazine fall 2005 that DNR biologists went to the zoo for a class to become more educated on cougar behavior and different traits of cougars. But I'm sure they do this with all exotic pets out there that could potentially escape into the wild.


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## LandBarge (Jan 7, 2004)

Have any of you guys seen a photo of a white tail caught on a trailcam with a cougar right behind it, crouched and ready to lunge? My wife says a guy at work has the photo that he says is on Michigan Sportsman. I havent been able to find it. Thanks!


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## FishMichv2 (Oct 18, 2004)

ive seen one that may be the same one you are talking about, i believe the one i saw was from florida, not sure. do a search for it on this site and i think you might find it.


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## Airoh (Jan 19, 2000)

Meow!!


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Ah, yeah, that picture has only been making the rounds for 3 years now!! 


It is not from Michigan by way........but if you want to believe that it is, feel free......


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## Bonz 54 (Apr 17, 2005)

The deer pictured here is a Mule Deer doe. Look at the tail and ears. FRANK.

Bonz 54

It's like Christmas, with Guns...


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## Airoh (Jan 19, 2000)

Gee guys . You mean the exact same pic with an elk instead of a dirty tailed whitetail isn't from Michigan either?  

I'm pretty sure this is the pic that LandBarge requested.


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## wyle_e_coyote (Aug 13, 2004)

I've seen the same pic, but with Papa Smurf in place of the deer/elk....:lol: .
I *KNOW* _that_ was taken in Michigan!!! Rght here in Berrien Co. I *KNOW* it's real, because my friends' uncles' bestfriends' sisters' boyfriend took it with his trail cam...last week! :lol: :lol: 

I'm really sick of that picture.... I know, someone good with Photoshop should put Millen in place of the deer and post it...that would be funny!!


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## Airoh (Jan 19, 2000)

wyle_e_coyote said:


> I've seen the same pic, but with Papa Smurf in place of the deer/elk....:lol: .
> I *KNOW* _that_ was taken in Michigan!!! Rght here in Berrien Co. I *KNOW* it's real, because my friends' uncles' bestfriends' sisters' boyfriend took it with his trail cam...last week! :lol: :lol:
> 
> I'm really sick of that picture.... I know, someone good with Photoshop should put Millen in place of the deer and post it...that would be funny!!


I was thinkin an ex-wife or a mean boss would work too.


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## Dedge (Sep 22, 2004)

Steven Arend said:


> I have buddies that hunt and live in that area and I have hunted in that area several and its not an isolated area either, it is quite populated around that area. There have been reported sightings in that area since 1995, thats 10 years with out a hunter or trapper getting one. How can this be explained, I believe that it is someones pet that get loose every now and then.
> 
> Steve


I tend to agree with this as well. But most importantly, I believe this case is cracked. Now if Steven Arend was in the area where an alleged cougar had been spotted and it did not try to use him as a scratching post, mistake him for a hot female cougar, or show up with a camera to take pics of him.... then I believe it is safe to assume that there are no cougars within at least a 100 mile radius.:lol:


Dan


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## wyle_e_coyote (Aug 13, 2004)

Dedge said:


> I tend to agree with this as well. But most importantly, I believe this case is cracked. Now if Steven Arend was in the area where an alleged cougar had been spotted and it did not try to use him as a scratching post, mistake him for a hot female cougar, or show up with a camera to take pics of him.... then I believe it is safe to assume that there are no cougars within at least a 100 mile radius.:lol:
> 
> 
> Dan


:lol: Amen to that...if it didn't attack Steve A., or trap him in his Jeep with the keys outside, then I don't believe it exist!!! :lol:


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## Zulu (Aug 27, 2005)

That deer sure seems relaxed with that big cat on it's tail . . . maybe they're friends!


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## Steven Arend (Jun 27, 2003)

Dedge said:


> I tend to agree with this as well. But most importantly, I believe this case is cracked. Now if Steven Arend was in the area where an alleged cougar had been spotted and it did not try to use him as a scratching post, mistake him for a hot female cougar, or show up with a camera to take pics of him.... then I believe it is safe to assume that there are no cougars within at least a 100 mile radius.:lol:
> 
> 
> Dan



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: HEY!!!!!!! that's not funny.

Steve


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## Dedge (Sep 22, 2004)

Steven Arend said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: HEY!!!!!!! that's not funny.
> 
> Steve


I must be evil, because I was laughing the whole time I was typing. LOL:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


Dan


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## LandBarge (Jan 7, 2004)

Airoh said:


> Gee guys . You mean the exact same pic with an elk instead of a dirty tailed whitetail isn't from Michigan either?
> 
> I'm pretty sure this is the pic that LandBarge requested.


From her description of the one making the rounds at work, I'd say yup, this is the one. Thanks for looking it up!!


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Thats NOT a picture of a deer and a cougar. That is a picture of a poacher dressed up like a deer getting ready to poach some deer and a game warden dressed up as a cougar sneaking up to catch the poacher.:lol: :lol: I've snuck up on poachers that close many times and they never knew I was there (until I wanted them to know), not dressed at a cougar though, darn it.:lol: :lol:


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## Bonz 54 (Apr 17, 2005)

Boehr,

I think your impending Retirement is starting to show Bud :lol: :lol: . Am I the only one that sees that this is a Mule deer doe? Anyways, Good Luck and have ALL the fun. FRANK


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## Rich Baker (Dec 5, 2004)

Big kittys are fun to hunt, Not much to be scared of but they do kill a lot of deer. Funny thing is I have seen about 30+ couger kills and none looked like that horse. I have seen bears hang off the nose but not cats the go for the throat or the back of the neck. Heres two I shot. Enjoy














Both were shot spot and stalk while bow hunting elk. Keep in mind they kill one deer a week per cat.


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## Pauly3511 (Jan 16, 2006)

all i want to know is if its someones pet how is it smart enough to avoid the trappers


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

If how what is someone's pet. It was not a cougar that killed the horse in Berrien County. Second, when someones pet gets loose it is caught soon afterward by the owner just like you would, or at least I hope you would, your pet dog etc. A pet don't know how to kill or hunt on their own and that is why one doesn't find deer etc., in the woods scattered around from cougar kills.

In the end, its smart enough to avoid trappers and dog hunters because _wild breeding cougars_(emphasis added) don't exist in Michigan.:yikes:


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## Big50blaster (Feb 4, 2005)

boehr said:


> It was not a cougar that killed the horse in Berrien County.


that a vet named Mark Johnson dug up this hear horse because he was reel sure it was a big cat that tried ta kill it so he dug it up to skin it and look for clues

aint sure but he mite of ben the same vet that put it ta sleep
why would a vet lie and goto the trouble of diggin up a dead horse if he wernt sure it was a big cat


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## Rich Baker (Dec 5, 2004)

Like I said. I have never seen a cat kill anything like that. It appers from the photo I saw that it was attack on the nose this is not normal. bears hang off the nose and so do wolves but cats go for the neck.


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## Northbound (Sep 17, 2000)

I attended a wild game dinner Saturday, one guy brought cougar meatballs and Bar-B-
Qued cougar. Both were excellent. Sure changed the way I look at my pet cat. 

Should all of these cougar sightings turn into a hunt-able population of cougars in Michigan that may not be a bad thing, at least from a B-B-Que standpoint.


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## Rich Baker (Dec 5, 2004)

You aint kiddin there, They are the best eating game animal I have killed barr none. I especialy love the backstraps


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## KEN C (Oct 28, 2002)

I hear the MDNR is going to delist the cougar from non-existent to cats only crazy people see with a season to soon follow in the coming years.:lol: :lol:


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## Freestone (May 15, 2003)

If Cougars don't exist why would MDNR biologists attend a meeting at John Ball Zoo specifically in regards to learning more about cougars. This was in the fall edition of "The Zoo News". I may be able to find the copy at home and and retype it word for word. At some point any reasonable person would separate the hoax's from fact and say "yeah that is kind of a contradiction from their normal stance on the issue."

There is a link on the John Ball Zoo website to the Zoo News but it doesn't seem to be working...... Hmmmm.... I see Boehr must have already gotten to them!! Ha! Ha! Ha!


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## dodge7 (Jan 18, 2005)

KEN C said:


> I hear the MDNR is going to delist the cougar from non-existent to cats only crazy people see with a seaon to soon follow in the coming years.:lol: :lol:


 Wasn't einstein, and columbus labeled as crazy, by the sane public.....only time will tell


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Big50blaster said:


> that a vet named Mark Johnson dug up this hear horse because he was reel sure it was a big cat that tried ta kill it so he dug it up to skin it and look for clues
> 
> aint sure but he mite of ben the same vet that put it ta sleep
> why would a vet lie and goto the trouble of diggin up a dead horse if he wernt sure it was a big cat


For the press exposure. The officer who investigated it is one of my officers and I have the pictures. If you still have doubt feel free to contact the Wildlife Biologist at the Plainwell Office.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Freestone said:


> If Cougars don't exist why would MDNR biologists attend a meeting at John Ball Zoo specifically in regards to learning more about cougars.


For the same reason they have information about brown bear, pronghorn sheep etc. That is why they are called Wildlife Biologists. Plus to identify and capture escaped pet cougars if needed. No real hard to figure out.


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## KEN C (Oct 28, 2002)

Beaking cougar news. This just in to date no one has been able to provide evidence that cougars wild or otherwise exist in Michigan. Stay tuned for further updates.:lol: :lol:


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## n.pike (Aug 23, 2002)

KEN C said:


> I hear the MDNR is going to delist the cougar from non-existent to cats only crazy people see with a season to soon follow in the coming years.:lol: :lol:


Tag me as one of the crazy ones. I have seen a live one and a dead one in Iosco county. The dead one was seen by 7 people, all reputable local business people. I guesss you never knew the local barber,restaurant owner,mill owner and farmers were all nuts.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

n.pike said:


> Tag me as one of the crazy ones. I have seen a live one and a dead one in Iosco county. The dead one was seen by 7 people, all reputable local business people. I guesss you never knew the local barber,restaurant owner,mill owner and farmers were all nuts.


Nobody said they were nuts nor did anyone say you didn't see one. But are you telling us that either one of those were wild breeding cougars and no chance of them being someones pet that had escaped? I don't think you are saying that either, right?


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## KEN C (Oct 28, 2002)

N Pike, Its very easy to come on a message board and make claims of seeing a cougar, but here in lies the problem. You present zero proof to back up this claim. I have still yet to see anyone present any proof of wild or otherwise cougars in the wilds of Michigan. Todays technology of cell phone cameras, digital cameras and video, you would think just once that someone would get a credible picture or video.


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## unclecbass (Sep 29, 2005)

I have seen a wild mountain lion, not in michigan, in Colorado. Lets just say they leave big tracks. I took some pictues of the tracks and reported the sighting to one of the rangers at Rocky Mountain National Park. Kind of scary to see one cross your path when you are three days out into a six day hike. Nobody to hear you scream if you get attacked. The ranger said that the Mountain Lions will normally circle prey for a while and then attack the last one in line. He also said to kick scream and throw things at the cat to scare it off. Apparently they are more likely to attack smaller humans. The week before I was in the park a small child was killed when a mountain lion attacked it. He actually choked to death on peanuts when the cat went after him, he didnt die from cat inflicted wounds. 

The most noticible thing about a mountain lion is its tail, in my opinion. Check out some mounts or photos, you cant mistake that tail if you see one.


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## n.pike (Aug 23, 2002)

boehr said:


> Nobody said they were nuts nor did anyone say you didn't see one. But are you telling us that either one of those were wild breeding cougars and no chance of them being someones pet that had escaped? I don't think you are saying that either, right?


Definitely could have been escaped pets. There are still some remote areas up here that see very little human interference, thus making it an easy spot to dump an unwanted pet. But, I do believe there is a possibility of a few wild cats here, given the size and remoteness of the Ausable Valley region.
I'd like to get a few good dogs here to look. It might turn up something interesting.
Oh Ken, next time you are in Hale, stop by one of the local businesses. There ae more than enough credible pictures, its just that some people don't feel the need to "prove" anything to an internet message board.


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