# Wood stove questions



## hommer23 (Nov 20, 2012)

Have you considered putting in-floor heat in or at least the pipe for it. Our cabin has a slab and when we go up in the winter the cabin is warm but the floor in very cold for the first couple days. My next pole barn will have a electric of Natural gas water heater hooked up to a circulating pump so I can keep the floor warm all winter.


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## Big CC (Mar 30, 2010)

hommer23 said:


> Have you considered putting in-floor heat in or at least the pipe for it. Our cabin has a slab and when we go up in the winter the cabin is warm but the floor in very cold for the first couple days. My next pole barn will have a electric of Natural gas water heater hooked up to a circulating pump so I can keep the floor warm all winter.


I have not really considered too many other types of heat. I guess that I wanted to keep the cost down if possible and I have plenty of wood available to cut, which is why I was leaning towards a wood stove. I will only be staying there long-weekends and I plan to get electricity but no gas or water. Are there better/cheaper options? I am open to anything at this point.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

With in-floor heat, I'd be concerned with freezing and damage $$

If you use fiberglass insulation, you will have a great home for mice, voles and chipmunks. Foam board is what I'd do. It does need to be covered to meet code for flame resistance. The mice might mess with it a little but extremely minimal compared to fiberglass.

If it were me, I'd use a vented propane and wood heat. A small *vented* propane wall unit that I start up when I get there, while I'm getting the wood fire going. In an hour or two you probably should be up to temperature.

In the future, if you find a good neighbor, they could start the propane unit prior to your arrival or you can do it by phone and when you arrive, it'd be warm.

You can get 20, 30, 50 or 100 lb propane tanks and shop around for good refill prices. TSC is good in my area.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

Good idea! Gets the chill off fast. I know friends that do that at their hunting cabin around Lupton. Make sure you hide the propane tank when you leave. They've come back to a different tank and no propane.


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## Big CC (Mar 30, 2010)

FREEPOP said:


> With in-floor heat, I'd be concerned with freezing and damage $$
> 
> If you use fiberglass insulation, you will have a great home for mice, voles and chipmunks. Foam board is what I'd do. It does need to be covered to meet code for flame resistance. The mice might mess with it a little but extremely minimal compared to fiberglass.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info Freepop. Mice is something that I would like to avoid as much as possible!


In the past I was staying in a travel trailer that I had parked on the property and I have a Big Buddy heater that I used for heat in the winter (vented with a window cracked). I may be able to use that to help heat to get started.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

The big buddy will definately help. You having this built in Hillsdale?


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## Big CC (Mar 30, 2010)

FREEPOP said:


> The big buddy will definately help. You having this built in Hillsdale?


Yeah, it is a bit south of Hillsdale.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

You have a builder yet?


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## hommer23 (Nov 20, 2012)

I would not worry about the winter damage from in floor heat, add glycol to the water 50/50 mix or so and let the circulating pump run during the times you are away or hook it up to a thermostat and the living space will heat quicker. If you add the piping now with 2 zones 1 for living and 1 for storage is you can put the heater in later, also if you decide you need to work on any equipment in the winter you can do it on a warm floor.


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## Big CC (Mar 30, 2010)

Yes I have a builder. I talked to a couple different guys and settled on one. Excavation is starting next week. My plan is to just have them build the basic barn and then I will finish off the inside over time.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

My guy is finishing up and they are good


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

When I built mine I got some foam blocks cut to size that just fit in between the studs on the wall. My walls are now flat on the inside as I made the studs to make the wall flat with the posts. I go the foam fron Grand Rapids on Clay Ave. I called and ordered it and they made it right to size. They will make anything you want the at that time the price was cheap


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## Midalake (Dec 7, 2009)

Big CC said:


> Yes I have a builder. I talked to a couple different guys and settled on one. Excavation is starting next week. My plan is to just have them build the basic barn and then I will finish off the inside over time.


I can offer some advice. I had constructed a building similar to what your planning, that I lived in for 15 years. 36X60 with 20X36 living. In the UP.

Urgent.....Be sure to put foam "dow board" under your slab where your going to heat, 2 inches. 

Insulation: your space is small so I would Flash and Batt the walls and use full spray in foam on the ceiling.

Heating- Ditch the wood idea. The space is just too small and you will not be able to regulate well. Get yourself a freestanding Propane woodstove like unit. With just going up on weekends you will not need the hassles of wood.

Get a 500lb LP tank, good for heating water, stove and lights. 

Good luck


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## Big CC (Mar 30, 2010)

I talked to my insurance agent today and they (Meemic) will not insure a non-residence that has a wood burning stove (or pellet stove, etc.). He said that I would probably have difficulty finding a company that would insure it if I choose to heat that way. Does anyone know of other insurance companies that will insure a building like this?


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Big CC said:


> I talked to my insurance agent today and they (Meemic) will not insure a non-residence that has a wood burning stove (or pellet stove, etc.). He said that I would probably have difficulty finding a company that would insure it if I choose to heat that way. Does anyone know of other insurance companies that will insure a building like this?



I've never had an issue getting insurance on my cottage, barn or either camp.

Alpena Agency talk to Stacy Martin.


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## savage14 (Jan 10, 2013)

some counties don't allow living quarters in a pole barn.a good cast iron stove will be okay. insulate by all means don't have ti insulate the whole barn now.i have a guy next door to to me has what you are proposing. he did not insulate but he can keep his 16x20 room pretty warm.what he notice that the closer to the floor the cooler the temp.he uses small fan to move the air when it's real cold. found his stove in a back yard made the woman an offer she said yes, I think he paid about 75 dollars. then double wall stainless pipe and bonnet on top. around 300 dollars as I recall. has walls covered with osb , floor epoxied it helps for any clean up ashes, dirt in general.hope this helps or gives you some more info. good luck


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## Steiny (May 30, 2011)

My insurance man told me as long as installed wood stoves and fireplaces are installed professionally with proper clearances, proper flue, back wall and hearth material, etc. they have no problem insuring. 

Won't take much of a wood stove to heat that space. I like the older style simple wood stoves that don't have the silly catalytic baffles in them. they seem to draft and vent much better.

You might also consider a simple electric thru-wall heat / AC unit much like you see in motel rooms. You could keep this on real low heat while gone with no worry's and warm the place up in a hurry if needed. AC would also be appreciated at times.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

Steiny said:


> My insurance man told me as long as installed wood stoves and fireplaces are installed professionally with proper clearances, proper flue, back wall and hearth material, etc. they have no problem insuring.
> 
> Won't take much of a wood stove to heat that space. I like the older style simple wood stoves that don't have the silly catalytic baffles in them. they seem to draft and vent much better.
> 
> You might also consider a simple electric thru-wall heat / AC unit much like you see in motel rooms. You could keep this on real low heat while gone with no worry's and warm the place up in a hurry if needed. AC would also be appreciated at times.


What is professionally installed? All it has to do is pass inspection for proper installation! Although we know the person the insurance company sends over does not have a clue! I installed one in the basement of my new house I built and switched insurances. Agent said they needed pics. I sent pics. They then sent someone to inspect my stove. Person they sent never knew about the thimble going through the basement wall to a masonry chimney. Person just wanted a picture of the stove. That was GMAC Insurance. I've since dropped them. It's the same as a home inspection to get a loan on the house. They don't guarantee jack!


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

Big CC said:


> I am having a 30x30 pole barn built on my recreational property that I will stay in during long weekends when I visit. I am planning on blocking off a section (maybe half?) for living quarters and keeping the other side as a garage area. My wood supply is basically unlimited so I am planning on getting a wood stove to heat the living quarters part of the barn in the winter months.
> 
> Is there anything special that I should look for (either to have or avoid) in a wood stove?


Just thought I'd bring up your OP. The wall separating your living quarters will have to be fire rated. As in 5/8" drywall. Probably won't be able to have any access door between living quarters and garage area or any windows or vents. Gasoline vapors hang low to the floor and seep through doors and vents. That means no propane hot water tank in living quarters.


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## Midalake (Dec 7, 2009)

2508speed said:


> Just thought I'd bring up your OP. The wall separating your living quarters will have to be fire rated. As in 5/8" drywall. Probably won't be able to have any access door between living quarters and garage area or any windows or vents. Gasoline vapors hang low to the floor and seep through doors and vents. That means no propane hot water tank in living quarters.


YES..and no. As you pointed out there is lots of research the OP needs to do...AND work with his code inspectors. 

You are correct on no windows doors or openings directly into the storage space[garage]. 

The codes may have changed but I was allowed to put a 3" high concrete curb as the border between storage and living space. Then stick build on top of the curb.......AKA vapor block.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

In Jackson county, an access door was not an issue.


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

First off my natural gas water heater is in my living quarters. This is an older place but I doubt that the regs. have changed. I have never seen a house with an attached garage in all my nail pounding days that did not have a door between it and the house.


What is the difference between his plans and a normal house as far as a door between the two areas. There can be a door into the living quarters. It has to be fire rated and have no window. 

As far as the wall between the storage/garage area and living quarters goes. The 5/8" fire wall has to go up to the roof.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Now that I think a little more, my parent's did have to have an elevation change between the house and the garage. I believe the minimum was 3" and I think it was a water barrier. This is in Clare County.


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

Outside boiler, in floor heat, with glycol. Insurance approved. all mess is out doors, can be zoned off if you want to heat the shop part. build a leanto off the eaves and put your boiler and wood in the lean to. Wood stays dry, you dont have to go out in the elements to load the thing, and the mess is outside .Perfect!


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## UplandnWaterfowl (Jan 3, 2010)

brushbuster said:


> build a leanto off the eaves and put your boiler and wood in the leanto


Code requires Boiler be at least 30 feet from any building and wood pile.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

multibeard said:


> First off my natural gas water heater is in my living quarters. This is an older place but I doubt that the regs. have changed. I have never seen a house with an attached garage in all my nail pounding days that did not have a door between it and the house.
> 
> 
> What is the difference between his plans and a normal house as far as a door between the two areas. There can be a door into the living quarters. It has to be fire rated and have no window.
> ...


Something about open flame. If say a car has a gas leak the fumes tend to lay low. I would for sure check with the township building inspector. Just wondering, Can you have a gas fired water heater in the garage? Just asking, I don't know.


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

UplandnWaterfowl said:


> Code requires Boiler be at least 30 feet from any building and wood pile.


 I guess i dont meet the code


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

What "code"?

or is it a zoning ordinance?


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

2508speed said:


> Something about open flame. If say a car has a gas leak the fumes tend to lay low. I would for sure check with the township building inspector. Just wondering, Can you have a gas fired water heater in the garage? Just asking, I don't know.



You have a valid Q. I have been out of the trades for 15 years so am out of the loop. 

To be honest I do not think I have seen any type of water heater in a garage. I guess probably because most garages are not heated and the water heater might freeze in the winter.

As far as the code goes for boilers I have seen plenty of them surrounded by piles of wood so there must be a lot of violators. 30 feet from the wood pile takes a lot of the labor savings out of having an out side boiler.


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

FREEPOP said:


> What "code"?
> 
> or is it a zoning ordinance?


 It must be a zoning ordiance for a particular twp or county. It is certainly not in effect in my area.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

brushbuster said:


> It must be a zoning ordiance for a particular twp or county. It is certainly not in effect in my area.


My thought too.


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## UplandnWaterfowl (Jan 3, 2010)

My bad, I mis-spoke saying code, it is for insurance reasons that OWB be 30 feet from any building (home or barn) and primary wood storage. Installers are using this as the guideline to not have you run into problems with whatever insurance company you have or want to switch to.

30 feet from primary wood storage is a PITA, the way I get around it is I have a small shed next to the OWB that I keep a months supply and feed that from the primary.


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

UplandnWaterfowl said:


> My bad, I mis-spoke saying code, it is for insurance reasons that OWB be 30 feet from any building (home or barn) and primary wood storage. Installers are using this as the guideline to not have you run into problems with whatever insurance company you have or want to switch to.
> 
> 30 feet from primary wood storage is a PITA, the way I get around it is I have a small shed next to the OWB that I keep a months supply and feed that from the primary.


 Depends on your insurance agency.


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## Big CC (Mar 30, 2010)

Update: Consumers wants to charge me $2,500 to put in a transformer close enough to get me power. They say since it will not be residential (I would need to put in septic first, which I am not planning on) they won't do it for free. So may hold off on electric for now. Still somewhat undecided on heat source. Excavation delayed due to wet weather...haha, just my luck with this wet spring!


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