# DNR to Ban "Sporting Pigs"



## Walleye Dog

Robert Holmes said:


> This is not always the case, I would say more often than not they come from pig farms or hobby farms. Of all the pictures that I have seen posted on this site and other sites I have not seen one picture yet of a Russian. That in itself should tell you where these ferel hogs are coming from. Like I say it is a temporary fix and it may lead to the problem becoming worse.


Take a look at the pictures of the hogs I trapped and killed. They look nothing like a domestic pig. It just happens to be they were killed 3 miles from a ranch that offers eurasian pig hunts. The 9 we killed look identical to those pictured on that game ranches website offering pig hunts. Why do you suggest that more often than not they come from so called hobby farmers? I have killed 9 on our 40 acres, none of which remotely look domestic. I am no pig expert, but I know I am not walking up on the ones I killed to pet them. They are mean, nasty, and destructive.

Bottom line, this order will cut off the flow of pigs coming in and that a good thing in my neck of the woods.


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## JourneyGirl

Robert Holmes, it seems you assume that boar hunts on game ranches are only involving Russian Boars. Most of the ranches have crossbred Russian and domestic hogs as that is what is routinely available to be stocked and a few have high percentage Russians. They can be any color and various generations (yes, breeding takes place on most ranches as they buy males and females) express Russian/Eurasian appearance to a lesser or greater degree. Many game ranches do buy domestic market weight hogs. Many repeat customers will happily kill a black or red or spotted 'meat hog'. Basically, there is about every imaginable type of hog on game ranches. And they do get out of the fences. There are owners surprisingly unconcerned about 'losing' some of their hogs.

There are feral hogs of about every type, too. Feral swine are wild hogs are wild pigs are free roaming hogs of any body type. Some are abandoned potbelly pigs; they cause damage to land and crops and can be disease infected. Free roaming hogs of any type are a problem. The 20+ killed in my area over the past two years have all been Russian crossbreds. I saw them, I have pictures, some of them went into my freezer.


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## fishindude644

If you can.


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## Robert Holmes

I do not support the high fence operations but I do believe that they serve a purpose and the people who own them are taxpayers. I believe that these busisnessmen will file lawsuits to be able to stay in business. It may take years for the DNR to successfully shut them down at a cost of millions of dollars to hunters and fishermen. I really don't believe that shutting down their hog hunting operations will slow down or eliminate the feral pig problem. I guess that we will all find out what the future holds for wild hogs until then keep shooting and trapping. I don't want them anymore than you people downstate do. I really don't want to see the problem get worse because the DNR shuts down a legitimate taxpaying business.


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## Craig M

Walleye Dog said:


> I support the ban 100%


Pig ranches today and tomorrow... Pheasant preserves? This is a very slippery slope.


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## Pinefarm

No slippery slope, only strawmen.

Do pheasants pose any huge environmental risk that could greatly alter the states natural resources forever?

Think more asian carp farms than pheasant preserves. 

To follow the logic, if a tax paying businessman, anyone should be able to start an asian carp farm here in Michigan. It's your right, right?


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## Walleye Dog

Craig M said:


> Pig ranches today and tomorrow... Pheasant preserves? This is a very slippery slope.


I see your point, but pheasants, also a non-native species, don't strike me as destructive or a threat to other wildife or agriculture.


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## Craig M

Pinefarm said:


> No slippery slope, only strawmen.
> 
> Do pheasants pose any huge environmental risk that could greatly alter the states natural resources forever?
> 
> Think more asian carp farms than pheasant preserves.
> 
> To follow the logic, if a tax paying businessman, anyone should be able to start an asian carp farm here in Michigan. It's your right, right?


I used pheasants as an example, you can insert any non-native specie you wish and I'm not arguing that pigs are destructive creatures because they are. My point is most of the game ranches not only have pigs but other animals (rams, deer, elk, etc) and with the banning pigs, it takes away the bread and butter way of surviving off the table and will send people to the unemployment line. I think this banning is another crippling shot from the anti's across the hunting bow.


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## Pinefarm

As a landowner, I don't care if a pheasant escapes a preserve onto my land. I do care if a pig escapes onto my land.


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## GVDocHoliday

I do know...that this winter...I'll be spending a lot of time taking advantage of the very low out the gate prices as these operations clean out inventory to fill my freezers with pork.


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## buck11pt24

GVDocHoliday said:


> I do know...that this winter...I'll be spending a lot of time taking advantage of the very low out the gate prices as these operations clean out inventory to fill my freezers with pork.


I guess i don't see why the prices will be any lower. More likely to be alot higher. If wild hog's are not able to be shot anymore in Mi, don't you think that more people are gonna go out and shoot them b/c they won't be able to in the future. I think you are looking at it all wrong.

Also, from how I understand it, if someone were to want to shoot a meat hog, which is a hog that came from a farm, that they will still be legal. That's what my understanding is anyway. Anyone else care to elaborate?


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## GVDocHoliday

Prices will be lower simply because if in March if they have pigs left, then they'll be put down. 

If they lower the price then they can recoup some of their losses. If they raise the price then they'll just end up with more pigs and will have to put down even more, thus losing more.

If demand was high enough to necessitate a price hike, then there would be more of a fight to keep these places open. It's simply just not there.


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## anon12192013aazz

GVDocHoliday said:


> If demand was high enough to necessitate a price hike, then there would be more of a fight to keep these places open. It's simply just not there.


I agree completely, and I'd like to think that says a lot about how few Michigan hunters want to shoot something trapped inside a high-fence area. 

I made the mistake of booking a hunt for exotics on a ranch just south of San Luis Obispo, in central California. It was a 600+ acre, high-fence operation and I hunted 3 days with a bow. I shot a rambouillet, which is a fancy French word for "sheep". Yeah, it had a giant set of horns, with 2 full curls and the outfitter was pushing me to get it added to some "book". As I was skinning it out I saw a truck pull up with a livestock trailer on the back...next week's "trophies". 

I could try to dress this up and say I had an epiphany, but the truth is, it made me sick to my stomach. These were nothing short of domestic animals that had outlived their time on the farm and were being sold to this outfitter so people could "hunt" them. I'm embarrassed still, to this day, that I participated in that farce. I will never again hunt inside a fenced operation, and I don't care HOW big the property is. I'm not criticizing others if they choose to do so, but I know w/o a doubt that it's NOT for me!

Hopefully this is the same message Michigan hunters are sending the high-fence "wild" pig operations.


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## TVCJohn

I too am wondering if the pig problem is overblown here in MI. Having hunted them alot in FL, I'm not seeing the incidents discussed here qualifing as mass problems. When you have a true hog problem....you don't see one's and two's or small groups....you see herds. We full-moon hunted one new field that had cut corn. On the best night we had maybe 25-30 in the field at once. The last time I hunted there approx 3 months ago on the full moon....I had 9 or 10 in front of me one night. This was in wheat field with wide, unplanted rows in it. We could only see what was in the unplanted rows. I could hear others as they grunted off in a distance so I knew others were out there in the wheat. It's blast hunting them in a field on full moons from a treestand. 

With all that said......IMO...if the DNR was truely interested about this....then allow year-round 24/7 hunting for them like other states do. Otherwise...quit nibbling at the corners and then say you're serious about doing something. This ain't rocket science here.

That's my lowly 2 cents.....


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## anon12192013aazz

TVCJohn said:


> With all that said......IMO...if the DNR was truely interested about this....then allow year-round 24/7 hunting for them like other states do. Otherwise...quit nibbling at the corners and then say you're serious about doing something. This ain't rocket science here.
> 
> That's my lowly 2 cents.....


So true! If you really want to keep a hog population from exploding, you've got to hunt them intensively. Any state that does not allow them to be hunted at night is missing the big picture...hogs will go entirely nocturnal when they are pressured, just like deer. If you only hunt them during daylight hours, their numbers will just continue to grow.

If you are hunting them and see a sow with very young piglets following her, shoot the sow. You'll be doing the very best thing possible for the population.


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## TVCJohn

broom_jm said:


> So true! If you really want to keep a hog population from exploding, you've got to hunt them intensively. *Any state that does not allow them to be hunted at night is missing the big picture...hogs will go entirely nocturnal when they are pressured, just like deer. If you only hunt them during daylight hours, their numbers will just continue to grow.*


Yup....that has been my experience with them. They're hogs but they're not stupid in that respect.


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## Robert Holmes

So the DNR puts a ban on sporting pigs, what is the fine going to be if someone who has 40 acres of swampland turns a dozen or so pigs loose and has a pig hunt? Even at a minimum price a person could make five thousand or so dollars on a weekend hunt. If caught they pay the DNR a thousand dollar fine and walk away a few thousand dollars ahead. At least the high fence operators are regulated to some degree. The DNR is going to open the door to a much worse problem. The demand for pig hunting is already there, so it should not be a problem for an illegal operator to find hunters.


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## Pinefarm

State House votes to regulate wild hogs, not ban them

http://www.freep.com/article/201106...e-House-votes-regulate-wild-hogs-not-ban-them


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## sixgun4866

I hate to see things like this banned as I believe it is easier to ban the next "thing" using the previous bann as an example.
Government regulation, yeah that's the solution.


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## Highballin'

I live in Muskegon County and have not been able to find one person that has seen a Feral Pig. lostontheice, you claim to live near a herd of 200. Why is that count not shown for your county? Farmers have computers, so why are they not on forums asking for help? Are they not experiencing all the damage claimed? I would love to hunt them (I have a very tasty pig from FL in my freezer now) but have no idea of where to find them. Yes, this is clearly another over reaction by our DNR, legislators (who think a walk or jog down a paved path is a woodsy experience) and citizens that think they have the right to tell others how to live. I don't hear of any southern states reacting in this manner.


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## Robert Holmes

I think that our Michigan DNR needs to go back to grade school and learn to count like one little piggy two little piggies........ Last year they were claiming that up to 10,000 of them were running loose in Michigan. The real numbers were revealed when only about 20 were killed. I agree that they can become a big hassle when on the loose. I have hunted Russians before and probably will do so again, all ofthe pigs on the ranch were ear tagged. The ranch was double fenced with 4 feet of fence buried underground. There was approximately 6 feet between the two fences, I don't think that too many pigs escaped from this ranch.


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## Airoh

Robert Holmes said:


> The ranch was double fenced with 4 feet of fence buried underground. There was approximately 6 feet between the two fences, I don't think that too many pigs escaped from this ranch.


Sounds like a ranch that wants to stay in business and be responsible for itself.


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## Walleye Dog

Robert Holmes said:


> So the DNR puts a ban on sporting pigs, what is the fine going to be if someone who has 40 acres of swampland turns a dozen or so pigs loose and has a pig hunt? Even at a minimum price a person could make five thousand or so dollars on a weekend hunt. If caught they pay the DNR a thousand dollar fine and walk away a few thousand dollars ahead. At least the high fence operators are regulated to some degree. The DNR is going to open the door to a much worse problem. The demand for pig hunting is already there, so it should not be a problem for an illegal operator to find hunters.


Fearing a ban or regulations because people will break the law is no way to operate. Sure, people will break the law and there are consequences. I still have faith in people and in enforcement to maintain the order. I simply do not agree with your logic here.


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## anon12192013aazz

Robert Holmes said:


> So the DNR puts a ban on sporting pigs, what is the fine going to be if someone who has 40 acres of swampland turns a dozen or so pigs loose and has a pig hunt? Even at a minimum price a person could make five thousand or so dollars on a weekend hunt. If caught they pay the DNR a thousand dollar fine and walk away a few thousand dollars ahead. At least the high fence operators are regulated to some degree. The DNR is going to open the door to a much worse problem. The demand for pig hunting is already there, so it should not be a problem for an illegal operator to find hunters.


Using your numbers:

$5,000/12 hogs= $416.66 each. Now, those hogs are not free to the law-breaking son-of-a-***** who sold these illegal hunts, but let's say he buys them for a $66.66 each. That leaves him $350 per hunter (if we can call them that) who pays to kill one. He still has to pay to get the hogs delivered and figure on paying a guide or two, because it takes more than one scumbag to guide 12 hunters. If he tries to spread it out over a few weeks so he can do all the guiding himself, he'll have to pen and feed the hogs. The pen alone could cost $1,500, even for a small one, and then you've got to worry about someone finding out about it and turning you in.

To put it bluntly: There isn't a whole lot of money to be made, when you consider the risk involved. How do you advertise these hunts? How do you keep the DNR from figuring it out? What if the guy ticks off one client (happens all the time) and the unhappy customer goes to the nearest CO? How do you release hogs in a river bottom and keep them there, so your "hunters" can kill them?

Your scenario is full of holes...and none of them are in wild pigs. They are a nuisance and a threat to native flora and fauna. They're incredibly fun to hunt, but for cryin' out loud, go hunt them in TX, or FL, or CA...don't bring 'em to another place where they don't belong!

Also, anytime you attempt to make an argument for or against something by describing what a CRIMINAL might do, you are on very shaky ground. As a law-abiding, civilized society, we cannot allow some bad ideas to hang around simply because we FEAR criminals will do something worse. That's just a defeatist way of looking at things. Stay committed to doing what is RIGHT and don't fall into that trap of believing some scumbags will do even worse if you ban something for the right reasons.


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## aquatic-archer

Have not read the new DNR puposal for closing high fenced pig hunting oporations as of late , but the last one I seen and read will also put a stop to hobbie farms and the raising of a few hogs on your property unless you are a register pig farmer/ breeder.


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## aquatic-archer

As far as pigs getting lose, yes it happens off from preserves as well as farms. I have seen both and dealt with both by trapping and returning them. Have seen way more escape from large hog farms then preserves. Also seems that in areas with Amish populations there seem to be more hogs lose. I'm not trying to blame them just seems to be a coincidence, might be lack of electric fences.


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## TVCJohn

aquatic-archer said:


> As far as pigs getting lose, yes it happens off from preserves as well as farms. I have seen both and dealt with both by trapping and returning them. Have seen way more escape from large hog farms then preserves. Also seems that in areas with Amish populations there seem to be more hogs lose. I'm not trying to blame them just seems to be a coincidence, might be lack of electric fences.


Great point.....I never thought of that.


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## Dom

broom_jm said:


> . . . If you are hunting them and see a sow with very young piglets following her, shoot the sow. You'll be doing the very best thing possible for the population.


OK, I'll bite and totally disagree. If very young you've just created more problems, and if old enough to make it without starving you've really created big problems. Think of it like this, without the Mom all these teenagers are going to raise hell, causing more damage. And if Mom just happens to be the leading Sow, who maintains law and order in the group and determines when all the Sows will be bred, is now gone, they'll be having piglets at all times of the year, and with no leader, and cause even more damages.

Yup, just shoot the biggest one all the time, every time :rant:

The Europeans have a lot of wild boar, and have had them just a "couple weeks" longer than Michigan. Sows with young are not to be shot. How do they control most of the damages? They shoot a whole lot of younger ones, those up to 2 years old and also big Boar (Male) are shot, but not often the big older Sows (Female).

There does need to be some law and guidance from the DNR, and I totally agree with 7 days a week 24 hours a day 365 days a year legal to hunt them, same as here. But the hunters need to be educated on identification of the sexes and exactly WHICH wild boars to shoot first, Waidmannsheil, Dom.


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## TScott2020

The problem isn't going to get under control unless trafficking of the animals for recreational hunting stops. Invasive populations are bad enough. I'd like to see a reg where all feral pigs are to be shot on site, and it is illegal to possess one dead or alive, along with an aggressive trap-and-kill program.


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## charcoal300zxtt

Wild pigs? Where? I'm not saying there not in Michigan but i spend alot of time outdoors in different parts of the state and i havnt seen any wild hogs tearing up fields, or any at all for that matter? I also happen to know a quite a few farmers and nobody is talking about hogs or calling me and the guys up to exterminate them? If anybody out there has a hog issue i'll take care of them for ya, heck i love bacon!!!..LOL..Hog population out of control..Puh...My S&W will have somthing to say about that if it ever actually does happen, until then the DNR needs to learn how to count!


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## cabledad

I live in North Texas in an extremely over populated area with hogs,love to kill hogs.There a pest.I have killed 8 this year most at night with lights or trapped and shot.I have only seen 3 during daylight hours.I always shoot big sows with large rifles hoping to shoot through them,of course 8 so far this year is not many but we set a heat record this year and I stopped hunting 5 months ago so I could have open heart surgery(pig valve)It was 104 today and dry, dry, dry.It is supposed to be cooler this weekend.Kill them all push your state to allow you to hunt them at night with lights,I am personally against game ranch hunting and the importation of any invasive species.Good luck Chuck


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## duckhunter382

if there are really that many hogs tearing up people property why doesnt anyone say anything and invite hunters out to their farms. Is it another ploy by farmers to collect insurance since they have all but eliminated the deer herd? I dont think we have as big of a problem as people say. How many people shining deer have reported hogs? Or how many **** hunters? Or campers? Drivers? Game cameras? I just havent seen enough evidence of a hog take over.


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## kkirkens

lostontheice said:


> Get rid of 'em???? I have a funny feeling that most of the ranch operators will just accidently, "leave the barn door open"...
> 
> ..I personaly agree with this..Many farms have done this with domestic pigs,and wild alike..and for those that havent seen what a few pigs will do to a farm field,you need to look it up..or ask anyone from Tx,La,Fl,and all the rest that have pig issues..the number in michigan is larger than the DNR is letting you know..I live apx.15miles from a large herd(apx 200),and its only one of MANY in michigan.Considering it has only been a couple years since they have found in the wild..the herds have been growing in numbers very fast..one sow will have 3-6 litters a year with 6-12 pigglets each..after apx 2 years,each of the pigglets will be of age to breed..do that math..We do need to stop the ranches from bringing in more,and we need to do more to get rid of the ones we have..if not..well the farmers,hunters,bird watchers and the rest of the population will have to deal with a proublem that we dont need,a very large pig population..imho


Unfortunately everyone just wants to make a dollar no matter what the cost. Does this feel at all like the asian carp problem and how it started? I've watched a few specials on both carp and wild hogs and they both seem to destroy everything and reproduce out of control rapidly. The other bad thing is that they start to grow tusks and revert back to being wild boar after awhile. That's the last thing I want to run into in the woods or have my kids run into them. If I found out someone released some anywhere near my home, i'd make a personal visit.


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## fishindude644

duckhunter382 said:


> if there are really that many hogs tearing up people property why doesnt anyone say anything and invite hunters out to their farms. Is it another ploy by farmers to collect insurance since they have all but eliminated the deer herd? I dont think we have as big of a problem as people say. How many people shining deer have reported hogs? Or how many **** hunters? Or campers? Drivers? Game cameras? I just havent seen enough evidence of a hog take over.


 but they are out there. They need to be eliminated before they tear the crap out of everything. Once they get to where you are seeing them on a regular basis it is to late to control them.


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## Onzaman

The way I see this whole issue alot of people just don't like High fence hunting mainly... How long has the DNR regulated and allowed ranchs to bring Wild Pigs in Michigan? I was told we can't even get the true southern pigs in Michigan the DNR won't let the Ranchs bring them in from the south, and that we had to get our pigs from Canada. 

Well we can probably cut more DNR jobs now also! I believe the DNR are just pawns and thinking out loud for the monkeys at the top. :lol: :sad: When really I believe a part time Legislature would protect us more from the real problem at hand.


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