# Struggling to Select a GSP Breeder



## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

GSPJAKE said:


> Brent What is so much better? as you know i am now a pointer owner, But for wild bird hunting, locating dead game and tracking wounded game, I think My female GSP is going to be hard to beat, and she is just starting to coming in to her prime. Especially the tracking part, that just seems to be natural in a Shorthair. Just curious as to what your seeing now that you have owned both for a couple years..my biggest problem with them is there desire to Hunt everything..


Well I'm sure this is going to piss a bunch of people off but this is from my experience and I will grant you is limited. 

My pointers have been far more "pointy" for lack of better term out of the box than my shorthairs. 
My pointers have better heat tolerance and more drive than my shorthairs and I don't have boot licker shorthairs. 
My pointers are less fur inclined. 
Both have been great with my kids and good house dogs but the biggest reason is I've seen lots and lots of shorthairs and there hasn't been one that I would have traded for my now 4 year old pointer and I would've said that when she was two. My current puppy is showing a lot of the same attributes that my older has shown. 

Grouse are tough birds to hunt. If I pheasant hunted a ton I might have a shorthair. But for grouse I think pointers and setters are more likely to get the job done. 

Here's the test take 100 shorthairs and 100 pointers and what breed do you think we have more proven dogs on grouse after 3 or 4 seasons. 

This was typed on my phone so it wasn't the most eloquently written response. 

Brian I bet your next dog will be another pointer too.


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## GSPJAKE (Nov 23, 2007)

Double Gun said:


> So you think you bought a lesser dog just to play the cover dog game? I get the whole long tail argument but I wouldn't downgrade to join them. The most aggressive dog on fur I have ever walked behind was a cover dog breed setter. He jumped on a porky 3 times one day.


What??? Who said i bought a lesser dog?? Its no secret that pointers are outstanding bird dogs, i don't consider it a down grade.. its just different. Plus it will be nice to see my dog in heavy cover, and i didn't buy it to as u say Join them or sell out on my Gsps as your implying i like the game that is played and i've always liked the look of a pointer but since most people in that game run the long tails that is what i got, there is no guarantee that my dog will even be good at it. but if your going to get into it on a consistent basis which i hope to do you have to have the right tool for the job, thats just the way it is..and coverdog is not the only venue out there..


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## GSPJAKE (Nov 23, 2007)

BIGSP said:


> Well I'm sure this is going to piss a bunch of people off but this is from my experience and I will grant you is limited.
> 
> My pointers have been far more "pointy" for lack of better term out of the box than my shorthairs.
> My pointers have better heat tolerance and more drive than my shorthairs and I don't have boot licker shorthairs.
> ...


Thanks Brent and your right my experience and comparison between the two breeds extremely limited. the few pointers i have seen have been really nice, Time will tell if my next dog is a pointer alot of time:lol: of course we are going to have to go on a hunt together now with my 2nd class shorthair and your 2 pointers


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

GSPJAKE said:


> Thanks Brent and your right my experience and comparison between the two breeds extremely limited. the few pointers i have seen have been really nice, Time will tell if my next dog is a pointer alot of time:lol: of course we are going to have to go on a hunt together now with my 2nd class shorthair and your 2 pointers


Absolutely!
Allie is far from a second class dog. I've seen lots of nice shorthairs is love to own, just none that I would trade my Morgan dog for.


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

Funny thing about my Pointers. Besides being great bird finders... My 20 month old gets along famously with them and I ALWAYS get compliments about how well behaved, gentle, and good looking they are at dog parks.


Truth be told, out of all of the different dogs they've encountered over the years, and that includes a good number of Pit Bulls, I've only had to break up one really ugly fight involving one of my dogs. About a month ago another bird hunter showed up with his three dogs and one of them chased one of mine around the park, snarled and nipped him, tried to mount my dog, and then after about 15 minutes of it my Pointer had enough. He took a warning chomp at the other dog which in turn prompted a full on fight that my Pointer happily engaged in. I was yelling, the other owner was yelling, my kid was crying, and when it was over only some nicked lips and scratches resulted.


The breed of dog that went after mine?


German Shorthair

It was World War 2 all over again.


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

WestCoastHunter said:


> German Shorthair
> 
> It was World War 2 all over again.


My retired EP and my friends almost retired GSP didn't like each other from their first meeting. Over the years when we've hunted them together they act like they purposely work different parts of the cover. We watch them close, there's never been a throw down, but not because they weren't willing!
They see each other once a year, twice its been two years between meetings, and at first sight they'd gladly get it on. I've never seen them act that way with any other dogs.

Just like you said WCH, we say WWII. They just never got word of VE day



Sent from my SPH-M820-BST using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## hehibrits (Mar 10, 2007)

Abrown, I guess you need to look for a couple pointer breeders, sounds like a shorthair is just going to slow you down


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## crosswind (Sep 1, 2004)

BIGSP said:


> Well I'm sure this is going to piss a bunch of people off but this is from my experience and I will grant you is limited.
> 
> My pointers have been far more "pointy" for lack of better term out of the box than my shorthairs.
> My pointers have better heat tolerance and more drive than my shorthairs and I don't have boot licker shorthairs.
> ...


Not only have you derailed and hijacked this guys thread, your inexperience based on your three dogs is about as far off base as it can get. 

Sounds to me like you were getting your shorthairs from the wrong place. I question why you had to get hit in the head three times if they are such POS what took you so long to make the change.
Your test of 100 GSp's versus 100 pointers is based on your experience of having four dogs. How the hell does that add up ?????

Great post though. It was good for a laugh.


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

crosswind said:


> Not only have you derailed and hijacked this guys thread, your inexperience based on your three dogs is about as far off base as it can get.
> 
> Sounds to me like you were getting your shorthairs from the wrong place. I question why you had to get hit in the head three times if they are such POS what took you so long to make the change.
> Your test of 100 GSp's versus 100 pointers is based on your experience of having four dogs. How the hell does that add up ?????
> ...


Scott

Certainly I don't have your experience with dogs. My three were pretty decent dogs and I liked them for a lot of things but not one of them or any other shorthair I've ever seen can compare to my current pointer for a grouse dog. And I've seen tons of shorthairs run and if they could compete with pointers and setters than why don't they?

We all have to learn I guess I'm just a quicker study than you &#128516;


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## hehibrits (Mar 10, 2007)




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## BDK (Oct 14, 2012)

hehibrits said:


> View attachment 51941


AMEN, I believe we are supposed to be helping make a decision on which shorthair breeder the poster should go with. Besides, I hear that Irish wolf hounds are sweet. If they can run a wolf down they should be able to catch a grouse? Sorry, this was no help at all. Buy a shorthair from the parents you like best.


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## crosswind (Sep 1, 2004)

BIGSP said:


> Scott
> 
> Certainly I don't have your experience with dogs. My three were pretty decent dogs and I liked them for a lot of things but not one of them or any other shorthair I've ever seen can compare to my current pointer for a grouse dog. And I've seen tons of shorthairs run and if they could compete with pointers and setters than why don't they?
> 
> We all have to learn I guess I'm just a quicker study than you &#55357;&#56836;


 
Brent, I m sure I have owned, or trained more pointers in this past 6 months then you will likely own the rest of your life. Currently working with 6. Along with that many or more GSP's 
I have been looking at side by side comparisons with the two breeds, on the ground competing heads up against each other, 6 days a week, for going on twenty years. 
Your heat tolerance, drive, fur, pointing instinct, and whatever other lame BS you threw out there is just that BS. If memory serves me correctly I have I have been in the national finals running a GSP against either a pointer or setter, either 7 or 8 times. In the heat, one hour braces, with a few other half hours braces earlier in the day.
Final tally GSP's had one loss to a setter, out of that 7 or 8.

Looking at those same breeds in the grouse woods actually hunting grouse and woodcock your pointer and setter opinion being the better equipped,adapted grouse dog is also BS. It will vary dog to dog but it sure as hell doesn't breed to breed.
Thats my two cents worth, but I have seen hundreds run like you have, its been thousands. lol.


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

crosswind said:


> Brent, I m sure I have owned, or trained more pointers in this past 6 months then you will likely own the rest of your life. Currently working with 6. Along with that many or more GSP's
> I have been looking at side by side comparisons with the two breeds, on the ground competing heads up against each other, 6 days a week, for going on twenty years.
> Your heat tolerance, drive, fur, pointing instinct, and whatever other lame BS you threw out there is just that BS. If memory serves me correctly I have I have been in the national finals running a GSP against either a pointer or setter, either 7 or 8 times. In the heat, one hour braces, with a few other half hours braces earlier in the day.
> Final tally GSP's had one loss to a setter, out of that 7 or 8.
> ...


I don't doubt you for a second but, who am I going to believe what you and every other shorthair breeder tells me or what my eyes are seeing? I know pointers and setters will get into it with porkies and skunks etc but not at the same rate as shorthairs. I know shorthairs can and do run as good as pointers and have the heat tolerance I'm just saying take the group as a whole and pointers win. Pheasants, cold weather chasing rabbits etc shorthairs win. 

I know tons of people who have gone from shorthairs to pointers but not the other way around.

I'm not knocking your NSTRA accomplishments as they are impressive but the bottom line is how come shorthairs aren't competitive with pointers and setters on the wild bird trial circuit?


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## crosswind (Sep 1, 2004)

BIGSP said:


> I don't doubt you for a second but, who am I going to believe what you and every other shorthair breeder tells me or what my eyes are seeing? I know pointers and setters will get into it with porkies and skunks etc but not at the same rate as shorthairs. I know shorthairs can and do run as good as pointers and have the heat tolerance I'm just saying take the group as a whole and pointers win. Pheasants, cold weather chasing rabbits etc shorthairs win.
> 
> I know tons of people who have gone from shorthairs to pointers but not the other way around.
> 
> I'm not knocking your NSTRA accomplishments as they are impressive but the bottom line is how come shorthairs aren't competitive with pointers and setters on the wild bird trial circuit?


 Exactly the point I have been trying to make to you. Your eyes have not seen enough to make a realistic judgement. Obviously they have seen enough for you to form a personal opinion, that far from qualifies you from getting on here and making your above statements. They are nonsense.

GSP's compete on several wild bird circuits, no they don't compete in the grouse woods and that is a totally different subject and it has nothing to do with locating birds or running.
So I will let you in on some inside info, if only pointers and setters are competing in grouse trials, odds are either a pointer or setter is gonna win it.


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

crosswind said:


> Exactly the point I have been trying to make to you. Your eyes have not seen enough to make a realistic judgement. Obviously they have seen enough for you to form a personal opinion, that far from qualifies you from getting on here and making your above statements. They are nonsense.
> 
> GSP's compete on several wild bird circuits, no they don't compete in the grouse woods and that is a totally different subject and it has nothing to do with locating birds or running.
> So I will let you in on some inside info, if only pointers and setters are competing in grouse trials, odds are either a pointer or setter is gonna win it.


I don't have to see a hundred Victoria secrect models to tell you they're hot either. 
Scott just look at what shorthairs were bred for and look what pointers are bred for. I win!


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## N M Mechanical (Feb 7, 2008)

I got my popcorn ready


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

I always find it interesting to see how prickly shorthair people get when talk of Pointers comes up. 

I don't know why, half of them may as well be called Droppers anyhow. :evil:

Good luck Brent.


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## BDK (Oct 14, 2012)

Irish Wolf Hound :evil:


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## 9mm Hi-Power (Jan 16, 2010)

I can't stand it, I promised myself I wouldn't get sucked into this discussion but nonetheless here I am...

First of all I've had GSPs all of my adult life. Secondly I am not going to pose an argument as to which breed makes for a better grouse dog. 

Now that that's set aside....and without quoting previous respondents...I'll pose what I think are some relevant questions and then try and provide my answers to them - your's are likewise welcome.

In the past - in various combinations - I've gunned in, competed in and served as field trial chairman for many a licensed trial put on by various AKC and *American Field* GSP breed clubs. These trials were open to any and all registered pointing breeds. In spite of this I honestly cannot ever remember seeing a setter or pointer entered in any including the AF sanctioned trials. Why is this?

If pointers and setters make for better bird/grouse dogs then why in big time AF pointer and setter trials aren't any birds killed or any dogs asked to show if they can retrieve unlike AKC and some AF GSP trials? If the trial is run on wild birds it would be easy enough for a bird field call back with a planted bird or two for the contenders.

The answer to both these questions is because those who are steeped in the various traditions of their own trials and their favored breeds just choose to do things that way - it's what they like, it's what they are used to, it's the type of dog they want to look at and judge. The type that will run and handle and style up the way *they* think a bird dog should do these things. That's just the way it is and that's just the way things are going to stay. A big time or even a less than big time AF field trial judge would *never* put up a solid liver dog with a docked tail - no matter - no matter anything. Likewise for a GSP judge in a GSP sponsored trial with pointers and setters entered. Both judges will find a way to not put up a dog they don't want to put up regardless of how good the dog is. Some people just believe that bird dogs should have long tails while others prefer a dog with a docked tail. These and other prejudices are deeply ingrained and are easily allowed to carry over into other - perhaps more important - evaluations of a dog. The same can be said of bird hunters. Personally I like GSPs, I've always had GSPs and as long as I have a dog it will be a GSP - no matter which breed is "best". Why? Because I know what's best for me.

Why do some people like NASCAR races and others Grand Prix races? After all aren't they all race cars racing on a track?

In all the sanctioned shotgun competitions I've participated in and observed I've never seen anyone shooting a SxS, only O/Us. From this I can only conclude that an O/U is a vastly superior design to the SxS when it comes to hitting flying objects - given this why would anyone choose to hunt with a SxS?

The answer to all these questions is simply: BECAUSE THAT'S THE WAY THE INDIVIDUALS INVOLVED CHOOSE TO DO IT AND FROM THAT CHOICE THEY DERIVE THE MOST SATISFACTION. It's not because a pointer is a better grouse dog than a GSP or an O/U is a better bird gun than a SxS
or a road track makes for a more exciting race than an oval. "Best", "Better" and the like are very subjective and non-quantifiable words. Is a Chevy better than a Ford ? Will a Krieghoff best a Perazzi in a skeet shoot-off? Well I guess it depends on.......????????...well you tell me.

Years ago I read a book by big time dog trainer and bird hunter David Michael Duffy entitled "Bird Dog Know How." Typical of books of this sort there was a chapter devoted to each popular bird dog breed and a chapter devoted to each North American game bird. As I recall he unequivocally stated that the best dog breed for grouse - bar none - is the Springer Spaniel. There it is guys in black and white. So dump all of your pointing dogs, buy Springer Spaniels, post daily on this forum's "Spaniel Corner" and you'll all have the *best grouse dog there is *and they'll be nothing left to get into pissin' matches over....yeah right :yikes:.

Hoppe's no.10


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## BDK (Oct 14, 2012)

9mm Hi-Power said:


> I can't stand it, I promised myself I wouldn't get sucked into this discussion but nonetheless here I am...
> 
> First of all I've had GSPs all of my adult life. Secondly I am not going to pose an argument as to which breed makes for a better grouse dog.
> 
> ...


I own a springer spaniel his name is Pete. He is great. I still say Irish wolf hound.


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## crosswind (Sep 1, 2004)

WestCoastHunter said:


> I always find it interesting to see how prickly shorthair people get when talk of Pointers comes up.
> 
> I don't know why, half of them may as well be called Droppers anyhow. :evil:
> 
> Good luck Brent.


 
It gets tiring to hear the same dumb sh^% from someone with little to no background or experience or knowledge, get on these sites and attempt to pass off opinions as facts. With little to zero facts or experience to back it up with. 

Could be why the participation from many of the old timers with years of experience, steer clear of these forums.


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## kek25 (Jul 9, 2005)

I haven't hunted behind many GSP's, but I have hunted over one out of a dog called Gretchen and a dog called Ramrod who would give any EP or ES a run for its money. All hunt, great range, excellent temperament, nice conformation, huge bottom, bird finder, and no pottering around. Regardless of the breed, it's all in the genetics folks.


If Northwindsetters would have given him up for a couple days he'd have been with me in the grouse woods.


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

crosswind said:


> It gets tiring to hear the same dumb sh^% from someone with little to no background or experience or knowledge, get on these sites and attempt to pass off opinions as facts. With little to zero facts or experience to back it up with.
> 
> Could be why the participation from many of the old timers with years of experience, steer clear of these forums.


Respect goes both ways friend and to date you haven't earned it from me. I'm sure you don't care anymore than I do. 

If you have experience and want to offer it up. Go for it. Just don't go telling someone that their own experience, however humble or meager, is "BS." They're experiences with the breeds isn't any less valid or important. Though it may not be what you want to hear.


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

kek25 said:


> I haven't hunted behind many GSP's, but I have hunted over one out of a dog called Gretchen and a dog called Ramrod who would give any EP or ES a run for its money. All hunt, great range, excellent temperament, nice conformation, huge bottom, bird finder, and no pottering around. Regardless of the breed, it's all in the genetics folks.
> 
> 
> If Northwindsetters would have given him up for a couple days he'd have been with me in the grouse woods.


There was a lady some years ago out here in Washington, a total Pointer snob. She belittled a guy who breeds pretty good shorthairs east of the mountains one year and said her Pointer could mop the floor with his dogs. 

One day they ran their dogs head to head. The shorthair was still cruising and finding birds when the Pointer was laboring to keep up.


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## crosswind (Sep 1, 2004)

WestCoastHunter said:


> Respect goes both ways friend and to date you haven't earned it from me. I'm sure you don't care anymore than I do.
> 
> If you have experience and want to offer it up. Go for it. Just don't go telling someone that their own experience, however humble or meager, is "BS." They're experiences with the breeds isn't any less valid or important. Though it may not be what you want to hear.


 "If you have experience" Pretty much just like you, 3 dogs and you consider yourself experienced. Enough to inform everyone that one dog is superior to others. Yep I will call that BS all day long. WCH. If one is gonna post info like that support it with some facts, not an opinion.

He probably picked that nonsense up from one of your threads. :lol:
Kinda like your pointers that all die young argument, all based on your opinion and zero facts. 
Nowhere but the internet. LMAO


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## Pointerguy (May 22, 2006)

I can personally tell you from owning many pointers, setters and now shorthairs they will all make grouse dogs. Now my pointers couldn't perform like the other two breeds but still did fine. As for competing, I have ran all three of the above breeds in NSTRA and I have had all three turn out to be competitive dogs. I have also trained a lot of pointers, setters and shorthairs over the years, and I can say the biggest difference I have seen, is in the breeding. I have had some dogs in that were not IMO breed very well and it showed.

I think everyone on here needs to listen to crosswind and maybe learn a thing or two. This man has trained more dogs in his lifetime than anyone on here could imagine. You cant go wrong with any of these breeds, they will all do what we ask of them if bred, and trained correctly.


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## ausable riverboat (May 10, 2010)

Why is that when someone wants info about a certain breed someone has to ruin it be being a [email protected]#% about it and all they can talk about is there dogs.


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## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

I don't care what you guys say, Dachshunds rule!


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## hehibrits (Mar 10, 2007)

BIGSP said:


> Pheasants, cold weather, etc shorthairs win.


And in an earlier thread you stated that if you hunted pheasant more you would prefer a shorthair. Please explain your thoughts.


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## crosswind (Sep 1, 2004)

BIGSP said:


> Do yourself a favor and get a Pointer instead. Seriously.
> 
> Both of those guys do have great shorthairs if that's what you want. Btw I love shorthairs but I'm really into pointers right now.


These statements like this that get me. The guy starts a thread trying to get some useful information and he gets this.
It would be different if it was layed out as an opinion, but worded like it is, I would think if one is to print a wild left field statement like that you should have some data or a whole bunch of experience to back it up with.
And also don't take offence when someone calls BS.
Which Brent did not. I will give him that.


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## crosswind (Sep 1, 2004)

WestCoastHunter said:


> Respect goes both ways friend and to date you haven't earned it from me. I'm sure you don't care anymore than I do.
> 
> If you have experience and want to offer it up. Go for it. Just don't go telling someone that their own experience, however humble or meager, is "BS." They're experiences with the breeds isn't any less valid or important. Though it may not be what you want to hear.


Give me a break WCH you talk of not earning respect because I call BS on an absolute ludicrous statement. Spare me, and you have the part right about not caring. You get offended because you get called out on your unproven, unsubstantiated, cockamamie statements that you try to pass off as legitimate information. 

The rest of us should be offended with you insulting our intelligence. :lol:


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## MIGSP (Apr 8, 2012)

Since I have neither trained nor campaigned hundreds of dogs I guess my opinion means nothing. But is there any portion of field trialing that pointers have not won in? Last time I check The National was open to all breeds, but have yet to see a GSP win it or possibly run in it. Are coverdog trials not open to any other breeds than ES and EP's? Guess those are just a few questions that make you go hmmmm. For the record I have a GSP and a EP and love hunting with them both for different reasons.


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## ausable riverboat (May 10, 2010)

MIGSP said:


> Since I have neither trained nor campaigned hundreds of dogs I guess my opinion means nothing. But is there any portion of field trialing that pointers have not won in? Last time I check The National was open to all breeds, but have yet to see a GSP win it or possibly run in it. Are coverdog trials not open to any other breeds than ES and EP's? Guess those are just a few questions that make you go hmmmm. For the record I have a GSP and a EP and love hunting with them both for different reasons.


MIGSP the way you have acted in this thread maybe you should give up dogs and take up model airplanes


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## MIGSP (Apr 8, 2012)

ausable riverboat said:


> MIGSP the way you have acted in this thread maybe you should give up dogs and take up model airplanes



And since you were unable to answer the questions that I asked maybe you shouldn't have responded. But since you are so deft with a computer maybe you could google the answer for me.


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## bluekona (Oct 28, 2011)

BDK said:


> AMEN, I believe we are supposed to be helping make a decision on which shorthair breeder the poster should go with. Besides, I hear that Irish wolf hounds are sweet. If they can run a wolf down they should be able to catch a grouse? Sorry, this was no help at all. Buy a shorthair from the parents you like best.


 right on! I too think this post took a weird turn I read somewhere something like the only thing two different dog breed owners can agree on is the third one does not know what he's talking about.


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

crosswind said:


> These statements like this that get me. The guy starts a thread trying to get some useful information and he gets this.
> It would be different if it was layed out as an opinion, but worded like it is, I would think if one is to print a wild left field statement like that you should have some data or a whole bunch of experience to back it up with.
> And also don't take offence when someone calls BS.
> Which Brent did not. I will give him that.


Scott,
What I said was with some jest. This is just my opinion and I was asked to clarify why. I stated why I thought this way. I did. You didn't like it, too bad, my opinion was asked and I gave it along with my reasons. Reasons I think many would agree with but don't want to get into a pissing match with someone like you who can throw out the "I've been doing this for so long and I know more than you". Well may you do and maybe you don't. My old man used to know more than me about politics and business but he doesn't anymore. So, maybe some old-timers don't come on here because they don't want some young punks telling them that there is a better way to skin a cat. These are probably the same old timers that say "geez there just aren't any grouse around anymore" yet myself and plenty of my "young snot nosed buddies" seem to find plenty of them.

That being said, I'm just trying to help this guy out. I wish I would've went with pointers from the start. GSP's taught me a ton and I love the breed. I can just tell you from my group of friends and a few other acquaintances that these people were/are much happier with their pointers. Take it for what you will. This is the internet and everyone is entitled to say type what they want. I bet the original poster has learned more about these breeds from my tangent than he would've by just a simple answer.

Here's curveball for you too. If I were to buy another shorthair it would be from Scott Townsend (Probably wouldn't sell me one but what the hell). Why would I buy it from Scott because his shorthairs are more like POINTERS than most shorthairs I've seen.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

Roxy read this thread and got a headache. I think she also feels woefully inadequate. She had to go lay down. I hope I can convince her to go hunting Sunday, and not be too embarrassed to show herself in the field.


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## 9mm Hi-Power (Jan 16, 2010)

MIGSP said:


> Last time I check The National was open to all breeds, but have yet to see a GSP win it or possibly run in it. Are coverdog trials not open to any other breeds than ES and EP's? Guess those are just a few questions that make you go hmmmm.


Please read my previous post with some care and thought. I think you'll find an answer to your question.

Hoppe's no.10


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## hehibrits (Mar 10, 2007)

hehibrits said:


> And in an earlier thread you stated that if you hunted pheasant more you would prefer a shorthair. Please explain your thoughts.


???????


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

hehibrits said:


> ???????


Well I'm sure I'll get slammed for this too but, shorthairs are tough, have a better coat for thick cover and are better suited for cold weather. They typically retrieve better than most pointers and pheasants tend to allow more pressure than grouse do from my experience.


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## RecurveRx (Jun 21, 2004)

When I next look for a shorthair, and I will. Crosswind will be on my short list. As will the other two breeders you mentioned. I have no doubt each of them would be happy to have you come out and see if they have what you're looking for. That's what I'd do. 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

One of the best gsps I've ever seen was a little white bitch Ritter owned, that dog had it all. Confirmation, build, Grace, point, retrieve. That's all I have to say.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Birdsonthebrain (Nov 3, 2009)

RecurveRx said:


> When I next look for a shorthair, and I will. Crosswind will be on my short list. As will the other two breeders you mentioned. I have no doubt each of them would be happy to have you come out and see if they have what you're looking for. That's what I'd do.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Seriously.....were only 5 pages in and your trying to direct this thread back on topic! We still need the pointing lab, performance lab, and spaniel guys to weigh in here. H*ll...... nobody has even offered to punch anydody out yet.

For the sake of tradition. Mike....I challenge you to a duel. Meet me in my driveway 8AM Sunday. We can decide if its pistols, knifes or fisticuffs then.

To the OP, you started out with two good choices, throw Crosswind dogs in the mix and Gspgal. Pick who your comfortable with and try not to screw up the pup. Any quality breed bird dog knows way more about their trade than we do.


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## aab751977 (Dec 2, 2013)

I had a number of breeders on my original long list. They were added due to recommendations I have received, or my personal experiences. I also did some online research. These included several breeders (Blue Briar, Shotgun, Crosswind, Shooter's Shorthairs, Abby Lane, Colonial Farms, Countryside Kennels, There may have been a few others). Now let me first say that I think many of the breeders on this list are very very good, but I needed to shorten the list. Crosswind (probably the best reputation in the area, maybe the region) was cut because I simply decided that if I am going to get a big running dog then I would get it from Blue Briar because of my past experience with Chris (He was helping me with my problem Vizsla, been buying birds from him for a while as well). Chris also has a few dogs with Crosswind lines. Shooter's/Abby Lane and some others are focused on breeding for both hunting and show. I don't need a show dog, but have to admit I like a hunting dog that looks good!!! Colonial/Country side had some good recommendations, but not to the same level as some of the other breeder recommendations I have received. Again, they probably have very good dogs but I had to cut some options. Shotgun kennel came very highly recommended. They definitely go the extra mile to make sure there puppy buyers are satisfied. They are a smaller kennel that breeds because they love the dogs/breed. They are definitely not in this for the money (They are only getting a litter or 2 a year). Had a very good visit with them. So this has been my thought process


So between Shotgun and Blue Briar. There is one female at Shotgun that I like, and a female at Blue Briar that I like. I am still struggling a bit between them, but I am leaning one direction. Which I really don't want to say on the internet. There is also one dog that has the right look (paint job). I was having a hard time not looking though. The way a dog looks when it hunts gets me wired up!!!!


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

Here's a must have for your new puppy. 








Just kidding. I had to put this in there. Lol


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## oilcan (Feb 10, 2007)

BIGSP said:


> Here's a must have for your new puppy.
> View attachment 52016
> 
> 
> Just kidding. I had to put this in there. Lol


 that's FUNNY!:lol:


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## swampmonster (Sep 22, 2011)

I currently have an 8 month old Shotgun dog sleeping at my feet. Even at this age I can tell you that this dog can be something special if I hold up my end of the bargain. If you do choose to purchase from Tim I don't believe you'll be disappointed.


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## Hevi (May 18, 2004)

Wow...that escalated quickly. 

Good luck with your search.


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## wyle_e_coyote (Aug 13, 2004)

Hevi said:


> Wow...that escalated quickly.
> 
> Good luck with your search.


 
oh look...something new on the Upland Forums! oh...wait...


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## wyle_e_coyote (Aug 13, 2004)

My GSP is an X of a Blue Briar, and Windyridge dogs...I like him, he finds birds, he will be great around 3-4yrs old like all pointing breeds.


as far as the other stupid argument...

My GSP, and Double Guns Pointer are about the same age, and every Monday morning, all season, we have disussed in great length how retarded our pupies acted over that past weekend afield....so I say it's a tie!


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## GSP Gal (Nov 12, 2005)

wyle_e_coyote said:


> My GSP is an X of a Blue Briar, and Windyridge dogs...I like him, he finds birds, he will be great around 3-4yrs old like
> 
> as far as the other stupid argument...
> 
> My GSP, and Double Guns Pointer are about the same age, and every Monday morning, all season, we have disussed in great length how retarded our pupies acted over that past weekend afield....so I say it's a tie!


Better check your papers. Zee is out of Crosswind Microchip and Crosswind Schatzie.


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## Double Gun (Feb 22, 2005)

Except yours didn't run off every time you put him on the ground!





wyle_e_coyote said:


> My GSP is an X of a Blue Briar, and Windyridge dogs...I like him, he finds birds, he will be great around 3-4yrs old like all pointing breeds.
> 
> 
> as far as the other stupid argument...
> ...


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## wyle_e_coyote (Aug 13, 2004)

GSP Gal said:


> Better check your papers. Zee is out of Crosswind Microchip and Crosswind Schatzie.


Crap...I knew that....what was i thinking. Sorry!


Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Hevi (May 18, 2004)

wyle_e_coyote said:


> Crap...I knew that....what was i thinking. Sorry!
> 
> 
> Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Hey, you almost knew half of one generation.


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## wyle_e_coyote (Aug 13, 2004)

No....he just didn't run off as far....lol










Double Gun said:


> Except yours didn't run off every time you put him on the ground!




Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## wyle_e_coyote (Aug 13, 2004)

Hevi said:


> Hey, you almost knew half of one generation.


It was a good guess for a ******* bird hunter...

So I guess bottom line...ignore my advice...


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## Hevi (May 18, 2004)

Exactly why I like you...

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## NCarte9959 (Aug 3, 2013)

Don't know if Pine Hill is doing Shorthairs anymore I think they've converted to doing just Drahthaars but just figured I'd throw it out there. I'm happy with my GSP although he'd probably be frowned upon by most people it sounds like


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