# Canadian speckled trout



## Gordon Casey (Jun 13, 2017)

Got a curious question. You can find spec. trout in Canadian streams/rivers and lakes. A lot of these rivers flow into Superior. Could it be possible that some of these fish could migrate from Canadian Superior to the US Superior. Has anyone ever seen or caught a spec in American waters. If not why aren't there specs. in Michigan?????


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

Gordon Casey said:


> Got a curious question. You can find spec. trout in Canadian streams/rivers and lakes. A lot of these rivers flow into Superior. Could it be possible that some of these fish could migrate from Canadian Superior to the US Superior. Has anyone ever seen or caught a spec in American waters. If not why aren't there specs. in Michigan?????


From my understanding there is a small population of coasters in a certain UP unmentionable. The DNR and USFS has been trying to figure out how to get a coaster program going in Superior tribs. As far as brook trout Michigan has a lot and some very nice ones, even down here in southern MI. I wpuld love to see the return of the coasters, folklore says there were a decent amount back in the day.


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## Gordon Casey (Jun 13, 2017)

Trout King said:


> From my understanding there is a small population of coasters in a certain UP unmentionable. The DNR and USFS has been trying to figure out how to get a coaster program going in Superior tribs. As far as brook trout Michigan has a lot and some very nice ones, even down here in southern MI. I wpuld love to see the return of the coasters, folklore says there were a decent amount back in the day.


Maybe I'm wrong but I think a coaster is actually a lake populated brookie, just like a steelhead is a lake populated rainbow. I also believe a speckled trout is not a brook trout.


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

Gordon Casey said:


> Maybe I'm wrong but I think a coaster is actually a lake populated brookie, just like a steelhead is a lake populated rainbow. I also believe a speckled trout is not a brook trout.


A spec is just what Canadiens call brook trout. All coaster are brookies, but not all brookies are coasters. Speckled trout are just what they call brookies in areas of Canada. Example : https://www.in-depthoutdoors.com/community/forums/topic/trophy-canadian-speckled-trout-trip-report/

Speckled trout can also refer to sea trout commonly caught down south in saltwater.


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## B.Jarvinen (Jul 12, 2014)

The Coasters are coming back. Slowly. I think I have already caught 2 perhaps, but there is no real way to guarantee that at sizes that match the best stream Trout. One was a special case where hatchery brood stock were released, I found out later, but on such a very, very short stretch to the Big Lake, with little deep holding water, I think the fish had been out in Superior - a 16 or so. Another was the most dark blue Brookie I have ever seen, about a 13 or 14, ... & within the date timeline for one to be in a stream.

I spent Nov. & Dec. working on the Bayfield peninsula in Wisconsin - an area where the Coasters were fished hard at the end of the 19th Century. I was excited to check out the streams and wondered if they might hold a lightly fished population of Brook Trout again today. That was a disappointment. The streams there probably had higher pressure than the west U.P., were stocked a fair bit, and ran with clay so often and the weather was too cold to fish, most of the time. I did not get the impression Brook Trout habitat and population #s would be creating new Coasters there. The Red Cliff tribe has an ongoing project to bring them back, dunno the results yet. I asked at the Iron River USFWS hatchery about it; about what happens to the Brookies they raise (a smaller component of their facility, which mostly raises Lake Trout). Anyway they told me a portion of their Brookie production goes to the Keewenaw but mostly they go to the North Shore, in Minnesota.

Minnesota put a 1 fish, 20" minimum limit on their Lake Superior segments, like the Nipigon region did, some 5 years ago. MN has a lot of those, generally short stretches before they reach an impassable Falls. I believe that program has been showing results as good as in Nipigon. All I could do was stare across the lake @ the North Shore, couldn't make the trip. Maybe in 2020.

Talking fishing around the U.P, I have heard tales of them being caught in a little more than a half-dozen streams covering most areas of the Yoop; some stories years old, some recent, including on the stream I fished often in October. But that was yielding impressive #s of Browns, some Coho, and occasional Steelies. 2 of the regulars on it each caught a nice double digit Brookie this Fall, though not on a day I was there, and in a stretch from Lake to Falls only 400 yards long - a long warm water system in the summer, that doesn't hold Brook Trout.

Eventually, this is what my new blog will mostly be about. But probably not up and going till later this winter.


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## U D (Aug 1, 2012)

I have caught them around the Keweenaw of Michigan.


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## Gordon Casey (Jun 13, 2017)

B.Jarvinen said:


> The Coasters are coming back. Slowly. I think I have already caught 2 perhaps, but there is no real way to guarantee that at sizes that match the best stream Trout. One was a special case where hatchery brood stock were released, I found out later, but on such a very, very short stretch to the Big Lake, with little deep holding water, I think the fish had been out in Superior - a 16 or so. Another was the most dark blue Brookie I have ever seen, about a 13 or 14, ... & within the date timeline for one to be in a stream.
> 
> I spent Nov. & Dec. working on the Bayfield peninsula in Wisconsin - an area where the Coasters were fished hard at the end of the 19th Century. I was excited to check out the streams and wondered if they might hold a lightly fished population of Brook Trout again today. That was a disappointment. The streams there probably had higher pressure than the west U.P., were stocked a fair bit, and ran with clay so often and the weather was too cold to fish, most of the time. I did not get the impression Brook Trout habitat and population #s would be creating new Coasters there. The Red Cliff tribe has an ongoing project to bring them back, dunno the results yet. I asked at the Iron River USFWS hatchery about it; about what happens to the Brookies they raise (a smaller component of their facility, which mostly raises Lake Trout). Anyway they told me a portion of their Brookie production goes to the Keewenaw but mostly they go to the North Shore, in Minnesota.
> 
> ...


B.J.
I don't know anyone that has half of the knowledge you have regarding the UP stream fishery. I'm asking "Obi-Wan-Kenobi" (you) the fishing Jedi Master, the question that will allow me to sleep well every night. Is the coaster brook trout the same species as the Canadian speckled trout? Are they a sub-species or are they something else? I have found that the speckle can adapt to stream, river, lake conditions and live their life in that environment. Coasters don't adapt as well. If they are different than one another, why haven't the speck's migrated from north Superior to south Superior? Or maybe they have already.


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## B.Jarvinen (Jul 12, 2014)

There are many, many more people who know far more about Brook Trout than I do. I just happened to have learned to write a complete paragraph in a few minutes, for better or worse.

There is just one Brook Trout. I believe a current theory is that if the combination of habitat & resources & population level does not match up well, some fish will out-migrate into a large body of water that the stream empties into (amongst the 'Trout' species at least, not the Salmon, which all leave the stream). If that body has good habitat, they will live there until it is time to spawn. Then some will return to a stream; others might spawn on appropriate habitat in the larger body of water. Does not seem all that complicated to me.

There is the older theory that genetics controls or influences that mechanism, that still leads USFWS to collect Brook Trout brood stock around Isle Royale and nowhere else (wanna catch a Coaster, fish around Isle Royale). I don't quite understand that as it is thought that those fish spawn on reefs, so I don't understand how using those source genetics would re-create inland spawning runs. I don't think every expert has let go of the genetics theory, nor will some people with pretty good knowledge of the species commit to either theory when you ask them.

There was an international symposium on the Char species in Duluth, about 2 years ago I think. Some of the presentations and materials presented are available online; I would think, given the location of the get-together, inland spawning runs from Superior would have been a key topic. I have not delved into the materials myself, yet.


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## Gordon Casey (Jun 13, 2017)

B.Jarvinen said:


> There are many, many more people who know far more about Brook Trout than I do. I just happened to have learned to write a complete paragraph in a few minutes, for better or worse.
> 
> There is just one Brook Trout. I believe a current theory is that if the combination of habitat & resources & population level does not match up well, some fish will out-migrate into a large body of water that the stream empties into (amongst the 'Trout' species at least, not the Salmon, which all leave the stream). If that body has good habitat, they will live there until it is time to spawn. Then some will return to a stream; others might spawn on appropriate habitat in the larger body of water. Does not seem all that complicated to me.
> 
> ...


I still need my question answered. Are speckled trout and brook trout the same???


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

Gordon Casey said:


> I still need my question answered. Are speckled trout and brook trout the same???


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brook_trout

Yes


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## PunyTrout (Mar 23, 2007)

@Gordon Casey There are also two subspieces of Brook Trout. One is extinct, the Silver Trout and one that is native to a specific region of Canada, the Aurora Trout.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brook_trout#Subspecies

As Trout King has explained already Speckled trout is just another name for Brook trout in Canada. Akin to saying Walleye versus Pickerel.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

See if you can contact Nick Pujic somehow. He was the editor for Canadian Fly Magazine

I remember him taking a 4-5 day trip in Algoma (or somewhere up there) By canoe!

Brookies measured in pounds! There was something about running out of bug dope on day 2 tho.....


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## TK81 (Mar 28, 2009)

Trout King and B Jarvinen say it more eloquently than I will, but this is what I have always understood.

There are Brook Trout.

1. If the brook trout lives in a tiny trickle in Grand Rapids or Traverse city, he is called a Brook trout.

2. If the brook trout lives most of his life in Lake Superior, he is called a Coaster.

3. If the brook trout lives in Canada, he is called a Speck.

Here's a nice Speck I got a few years ago in a beaver pond not too far from Hawk Juncton :


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

TK81 said:


> Trout King and B Jarvinen say it more eloquently than I will, but this is what I have always understood.
> 
> There are Brook Trout.
> 
> ...


Wowsa, heck of a speck!


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## Teggs (Mar 20, 2013)

I have seen many coaster brooktrout caught in Michigan. I offer trips all summer long casting from shore or boat in lake superior. I saw a guy get a 21.5 last weekend in k-bay before the ice blew out. I have seen adult coasters over 20 inches caught in 5 different superior and 1 michigan trib during the fall while salmon and steelhead fishing. There are days in the summer time when me and my buddies or clients get 5-10 specs over 15 inches. There is a good healthy population of these fish on the American side of superior


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## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

Shoe, if you want to go long for BIG brookies, go to Labrador, it's on my bucket list to do. Every once in a great while, and I'm talking years between stories, but you'll hear of someone getting one off the pier on the west side of the state, the last one I heard of was like 2 years ago.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

There was one landed in the Ludington Offshore tournament many years ago, which led to some head scratching on whether or not the rules allowed it to be weighed.


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## TK81 (Mar 28, 2009)

Trout King said:


> Wowsa, heck of a speck!


Toto speaks of Labrador for big specks, and he is right. But many of the out of the way speck lakes in the bush of the White River to Chapleau area will give up 17 to 20 inch fish with some regularity. My picture is from an un-named pond up in the hills where big specks are common. That one was a shade under 20 inches. My last trip there with my FIL resulted in 20 specks over 20 inches in about 4 hours of fishing. My personal best was 23". I packed in 4 dozen night crawlers and never popped the lid on the container. I threw a #3 Mepps Psyclops and he threw a cleo. We spent the night sleeping on a relatively flat chunk of rock and then knocked out 15 more the next morning. Best trip ever. Between the hike and the flies, not many locals are interested. 

As an aside, back in the 60's, when my FIL was guiding up there, a couple of Frenchmen hired him to take them back into one of these little lakes. They were about 3/4's of the way into the hike when one of the guys tossed a worm into a spot where a little creek spilled over a beaver dam. He started ripping one 7 inch speck after another. The guys then decided that they would catch enough for dinner and cook them right there. Well, any good Frenchman is gonna have a little wine with his fish and they ended up camping right there. Never made it back into the lake, perfectly happy with what they called "Mud Pout". Mud Pout may mean bullhead to us, but not to those French Canadians.


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

TK81 said:


> Toto speaks of Labrador for big specks, and he is right. But many of the out of the way speck lakes in the bush of the White River to Chapleau area will give up 17 to 20 inch fish with some regularity. My picture is from an un-named pond up in the hills where big specks are common. That one was a shade under 20 inches. My last trip there with my FIL resulted in 20 specks over 20 inches in about 4 hours of fishing. My personal best was 23". I packed in 4 dozen night crawlers and never popped the lid on the container. I threw a #3 Mepps Psyclops and he threw a cleo. We spent the night sleeping on a relatively flat chunk of rock and then knocked out 15 more the next morning. Best trip ever. Between the hike and the flies, not many locals are interested.
> 
> As an aside, back in the 60's, when my FIL was guiding up there, a couple of Frenchmen hired him to take them back into one of these little lakes. They were about 3/4's of the way into the hike when one of the guys tossed a worm into a spot where a little creek spilled over a beaver dam. He started ripping one 7 inch speck after another. The guys then decided that they would catch enough for dinner and cook them right there. Well, any good Frenchman is gonna have a little wine with his fish and they ended up camping right there. Never made it back into the lake, perfectly happy with what they called "Mud Pout". Mud Pout may mean bullhead to us, but not to those French Canadians.


Sounds like awesome experiences for sure. I have been debating in my head whether I want to do a Canadien brookie trip sometime, but part of me is very partial.to Michigan brookies. 

My longest specks came from high mountain lakes in Glacier National Park where they are considered trash fish. The biggest I landed was probably 19 or so inches and multiples in the same range. These fish were snakey as theu don't see a ton of food up there. I still dream of that 18" Michigan brook trout that has eluded me to this day. My personal best tops at about 17" when I was 19. It came from my big brookie honey hole in mid-MI. I usually catch a few 14-15 inchers in there every year, but just can't manage to catch "the one". Both myself and Mondrella have had a brookie/brookies on that would have easily exceeded 18" in the same hole of the same stream. Maybe it still lurks. Can't wait to find out this trout season! C'mon spring!


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## TK81 (Mar 28, 2009)

Trout King said:


> Sounds like awesome experiences for sure.  I have been debating in my head whether I want to do a Canadien brookie trip sometime, but part of me is very partial.to Michigan brookies.
> 
> My longest specks came from high mountain lakes in Glacier National Park where they are considered trash fish. The biggest I landed was probably 19 or so inches and multiples in the same range. These fish were snakey as theu don't see a ton of food up there. I still dream of that 18" Michigan brook trout that has eluded me to this day. My personal best tops at about 17" when I was 19. It came from my big brookie honey hole in mid-MI. I usually catch a few 14-15 inchers in there every year, but just can't manage to catch "the one". Both myself and Mondrella have had a brookie/brookies on that would have easily exceeded 18" in the same hole of the same stream. Maybe it still lurks. Can't wait to find out this trout season! C'mon spring!


From the time I was about 12 until my mid-twenties, I hit just about every culvert in Barry County and a bunch in Allegan. I buried myself in mud that would come close to being called quicksand chasing those elusive 8 inch fish. When I was 25, I went in with 3 buddies and bought twenty acres just outside of Dublin. Then I explored a bunch of those little creeks that fed the pine, the little, and the big. My big Michigan brookie was about 14.5. When I started going to Canada in the mid-90's, I didn't even consider these "specks"to be the same fish. It is ridiculous how big they get up there, and they are anything but skinny. If I ever get a 24" he's getting mounted. If I get a 16" down here I probably mount him. But these days I pretty much only fish one creek here in the Cedartucky area and my best Michigan fish in the last 15 or so years would be about 12 inches.


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## PunyTrout (Mar 23, 2007)

Gordon Casey said:


> I still need my question answered. Are speckled trout and brook trout the same???





Trout King said:


> Yes


We're done here.


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