# Declining Turkey Numbers - Dr. Grant Woods



## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

Ronnie D said:


> Q man, have you given any merit to declining #'s attributed to the baiting ban? I know people that kept food out into January. Thinking starvation or a genetic trait where less eggs are laid to insure survival of existing flock ? I know you're not an expert but after reading a few of your posts I'd value your opinion.



That MAY be an issue in northern climes but keep in mind that turkeys were reintroduced in Michigan near Fairview (Before global warming 😬) and they thrived and that flock helped to repopulate the rest of the state.
It's "my opinion" IF birds are artificially sustained, then perhaps they don't belong in those areas. That said, there's plenty of good reasons to do so for hunting and/or viewing opportunities if disease concerns aren't an issue. As a side note, I started my turkey hunting career 25 years ago near Alba in the heaviest annual snowfall area of the state (LP) on birds that no doubt had been "helped" through the harshest months of the winter, primarily by the Michigan Wild Turkey Assoc. feeding program.
I'd guess that a "genetic trait" that reduces clutch size isn't a real problem, or even realistic, and all of my research hasn't even suggest such. But I could have missed something.
I lean heavily on what Dr. Woods and others have pointed out as the main reasons, predation and loss of habitat.
When turkey numbers were at peak levels around me, there were several neighboring farms that were in CRP. Good CRP habitat not only provided good nesting and brood habitat, but also provided good mouse and vole habitat for fox, coyotes, and raptors which reduced the pressure on poults.
There are also considerably less folks trapping in my area which is much more effective than predator hunting, IMO. Also there are guys in my area aging out of running predators with hounds in the winter months. Racoon and possum numbers are robust and a nuisance control at my place is never ending it seems.
When I bought my place it was a year or two after turkeys were introduced into my neighborhood (~28 years ago) so I have seen the flock go from virtually nil, to robust to struggling. The farm where they were released was in CRP and up until just a couple of years ago when it went back in to production. I hunted that farm for several years and it was always a gold mine for turkeys, seldom could you drive past that farm and not see large flocks in the fields. I haven't seen a single bird on that farm this spring.


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## Botiz (Oct 21, 2010)

I’ll have to look it up but I’ve heard some very interesting research from folks from the southern states pointing toward the timing of spring hunting and the disruption of the mating hierarchy of male turkeys when the top tier of birds is removed by hunters as a contributing factor to declining populations. 

Not so much that they are gone, but the timing of when they are gone as it relates to the turkey’s courting processes and that they have to start all over again to establish the new dominant Tom.

I know I heard a guest on a somewhat recent meat eater podcast discussing it.


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## pleistocene (Feb 8, 2013)

We have taken 2or 3 toms for the last 15 years on a jackson co property very easily.
this year never saw a tom 3 hen 2 jake, To summarize population went from 100 to 30,20,10 to 5
the articular is interesting, as his observatious or over a entire region.


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## MPOW (Dec 27, 2016)

d_rek said:


> Are turkey populations declining or are hunter numbers declining and thus less reporting on numbers and harvest? The loss of habitat is also problematic.
> 
> Population in my part of SE Michigan are seemingly stable and have been since I began hunting turkey 5+ years ago. I am not seeing more hunters afield, either. However, I am seeing a crap load of development all over the place. Vacant parcels being bulldozed for new homes left and right. There are also many predators in my area. I took out 3 ***** just a few nights ago trying to break into my chicken coop.
> 
> Also, I have only ever hunted turkey in the fall once. I don't know any hunters who hunt any turkey in the fall, and I would guess those that do are in the minority. But I could be wrong. I would be OK with a moratorium on the fall season.


huge flocks in se michigan neighborhoods.....never seen anything like it


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## MasterBaiters (Jul 13, 2017)

For us turkey season was a bust,you cant hunt what isnt there.First time in 23 seasons,there were turkeys sighted in the general area,but way down from the past.They have been hanging closer to residences and pine roosts.Iam absolutely sure the coyotes are the reason.We are over run with them!!! Multiple packs running at night.The solution is in hand and i look forward to this fall as i have every intention of reducing their population along with the rest of the egg eaters and chick eaters.


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

Ronnie D said:


> After 25 yrs of state land hunting gobblers Wastenaw and east Jackson counties have significantly lower #'s .


Now that you mention it. I have seen less Turkey in this area. I did hear some gobbling while mushroom hunting this past spring. But, Not like before and a hunter I talked to said the same. Didn't hear any grouse drumming either. Though I have in the last few years out there.

Now in the city it's another story. Turkey's are showing up pretty regular now.


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## syonker (May 7, 2004)

MasterBaiters said:


> They have been hanging closer to residences and pine roosts.


The area I hunt shares a property line with a subdivision.

I wouldn’t be one bit surprised that these birds receive “supplemental feeding” from the subdivision bird feeders.


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## Lumberman (Sep 27, 2010)

Very interesting. I know my group of guys who hunt the NLP have had two tough years in a row. But we are littered with coyotes and fox. 

Now around the house there’s tons of them still.


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## Dish7 (Apr 2, 2017)

We have lots of yotes. But I have to believe that the ever booming raccoon population is the real problem. Only my opinion. Just seems like ***** are everywhere these days.


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## don (Jan 20, 2001)

My license was good for the entire season in Isabella county on private land. I hunted about 15 of those days and the hunts were split between morning and afternoon hunts.
I heard gobbles on two mornings coming from the same area which I interpreted to be the same bird on both mornings,
I saw him in the company of five hens the first time, the next morning he came to my calling along with a jake..
Both stood 10-12 yards away courting my DSD hen but I couldn’t bring myself to put an arrow thru either one due to the obvious lack of birds using the property.
No poults seen on the trailcams last summer, no birds seen last fall. No poults on the cams so far this spring either. WTH....


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## HUBBHUNTER (Aug 8, 2007)

Dish7 said:


> Are enough people hunting turkeys in the fall to really matter? I know of zero.


I used to buy a fall tag because I'd see them quite often deer hunting. Never shot one though. Surprised to see this issue come up because I see more now (last 4-5 years) than I ever have.


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## Dish7 (Apr 2, 2017)

HUBBHUNTER said:


> I used to buy a fall tag because I'd see them quite often deer hunting. Never shot one though. Surprised to see this issue come up because I see more now (last 4-5 years) than I ever have.


My turkey numbers seem to be down quite a bit in my immediate vicinity but I just attributed that more to logging in neighboring woodlots. A lot of roost areas got logged. Just figured they relocated. Could be wrong.


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## FIJI (May 15, 2003)

I spent more hours in the woods this spring than I have in the last 8-9 years combined. Many days I never heard a single bird - not even on the neighboring farms. The only birds I actually saw this year (on private land) were four hens that snuck up behind me. Of course, this does not include the MONSTER tom that visited my cabin front yard daily while I was in the woods! (neighbor kept texting me "is this what you're looking for?") My county does not have a fall hunt although all the ones around me do. I'm beginning to think that's a good thing.


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## ezcaller (Feb 21, 2009)

The Trinity of our turkey decline, predation, habitat loss and insecticides creating a loss of a food source.


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## Dish7 (Apr 2, 2017)

So this past Thursday, 7-1, I'm out in my NWSG field with my backpack sprayer spraying out a few deer beds and trails when I just about stepped on a hen sitting on a nest. I may have peed a little lol. She went up in my face light a rooster pheasant. Was not expecting it at all, lol. Took a quick pic a got out of there.


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## Whitetail_hunter (Mar 14, 2012)

The private land I have permission to hunt turkeys on has seen a drastic reduction in the turkey population over the last few years, on the other hand the state land I hunt is loaded with turkeys.


I'm one that places a lot of the blame on the booming **** population, raiding nests and killing poults. This trapping season I plan to put a serious hurting on those things.


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## Whitetail_hunter (Mar 14, 2012)

On a similar note 2 nights ago something broke into my turkey pen and killed 2 of my turkey poults, so yesterday I reinforced the only spot they could of squeezed in and set a trap.

You guessed it this morning I had a **** in my dog proof, he is no longer with us. I expect the same results tommorow morning and I may add a few more traps. Trash pandas picked the wrong coop to mess with.


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## retired dundo (Jul 21, 2015)

I saw a lot of turkeys and toms but only one jake usuelly I see a lot of jakes.So that makes me worry about the future.Plus I’ve only seen one hen so far with young poults and that was only four


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

More interesting thoughts to ponder from Dr. Woods.









Ep. 656: Help Turkey Populations Now!


Early deer season is an excellent time to assess the success of the turkey hatch during the previous spring! There was a very high poult survival here at The Proving Grounds while Missouri and most states report another year of low poult survival. In this episode we'll share the practices and...



www.growingdeer.tv


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## Beaverhunter2 (Jan 22, 2005)

Raccoon furs are pretty much unsellable and have been for a couple years now. Two of the three bear baits I ran for my daughter this fall had 9 ***** at once (each) on the trail cams. The third only had 7 at once. Opossums have never been above a buck or two and the last couple winters haven't knocked them back. Coyotes are also out of control and I have trail camera pics of 3 bobcats at the same time feeding on my boneyard. If your turkey population is down- you might try controlling some predators. 

BTW even with these predator levels, you darn near need to kick them out of the road by us.


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