# Outside Wood Furnace/Burner



## AntiHuntersLoveMe (Apr 18, 2012)

I'm seriously thinking of taking the plunge and purchasing one. Anyone have any experience with these or own one? 
Cheaper overall than propane? 
How much wood would one burn during the winter to heat a 1500 sq. ft house?
I'm tired of forking out thousands of dollars during winter months to feed the "pig" in the back yard! Thanks in advance for any info...


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

Why would you want to go to an outdoor boiler instead of putting in a wood stove inside the home and augmenting with the propane?

Outdoor wood boilers are notoriously inefficient and burn wood like crazy.. For a 1500 sqft home, you'll probably go through 8 to 10 full cords (there are three face cords to a full cord)... 

However, if you install a modern wood stove in your home that runs 80% or more efficiency like I did, you'll burn about 3 cords per year to keep the house at 70.

Also, for every degree you lower your thermostat below 70, you save 3 percent on your energy bill. 

My wife and I took advantage of the BioMass Heating Credit back in 2009 and we got a $1500 reduction in our tax bill.. Not a deduction, it was a direct credit.


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## AntiHuntersLoveMe (Apr 18, 2012)

Murphy, Ideally I'd love to go with a inside wood stove but with the way my house was built it's nearly impossible (2 story house with no existing chimney). I'd have to run chimney piping out of a window in my utility room (where the furnace is currently located) and all the way up past the peak of the roof.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

Murphy is right. Even though I have an OWB it is a wood eating monster. I built brand new in 1995. I had a chimney built on an outside wall. Burned a wood stove for 3 yrs. Could not breath (dry air) bugs,dirt,etc. Also always worried abut a fire. Installed a OWB. It heats my house (1400sq. ft.) garage (1200 sq. ft.) and all my domestic water. I'm able to cut wood on my own property and know a couple of tree trimmers that drop wood off for me. For peace of mind I would do it again. But if I had to buy firewood, I don't know if you would make out. If you don't enjoy cutting and splitting wood, I'd say no. It's better than jogging though!


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## Honkkilla59 (Dec 12, 2013)

Just look at how many people die from in home wood stove fires and how many outdoor stoves have you heard of burning houses down? I personally had a fire from a stove that was professionally installed and maintained and would never risk my family or life with a in home wood system again. I would rather have to cut more wood and have a system that I know won't burn my home down just my 2 cents.
I have a friend in the restoration business that get plenty of work from in home wood stoves every year .


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

AntiHuntersLoveMe said:


> Murphy, Ideally I'd love to go with a inside wood stove but with the way my house was built it's nearly impossible (2 story house with no existing chimney). I'd have to run chimney piping out of a window in my utility room (where the furnace is currently located) and all the way up past the peak of the roof.


Before you make any assumptions, call up a reputable place that can come out to your home and give you real advice.. In fact, call two or three places.. 
This is a big investment.. DO YOUR HOMEWORK.. 

If you come to a split decision between the outdoor boiler and something inside, lean towards the inside with a few extra points.. The efficiency difference is staggering...


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

Honkkilla59 said:


> Just look at how many people die from in home wood stove fires and how many outdoor stoves have you heard of burning houses down? I personally had a fire from a stove that was professionally installed and maintained and would never risk my family or life with a in home wood system again. I would rather have to cut more wood and have a system that I know won't burn my home down just my 2 cents.
> I have a friend in the restoration business that get plenty of work from in home wood stoves every year .


There is some truth to what you say.. However, it all depends on how you're set up. 
A free standing wood stove that is 100% radiant heat is going to require a three to four foot clearance.. These are the type that start fires and I would stay away too.. 

But, if you get one that has an air jacket around it and a fan, they are almost zero clearance as the outside surface temps rarely go above that which will burn you.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

There is no doubt a free standing wood stove of good quality is more efficient than an OWB. But having said that I love my OWB. It heats my house and my garage is warm too! As far as a pro installing my indoor stove, I would be standing over his shoulder watching every move he made.


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## AntiHuntersLoveMe (Apr 18, 2012)

2508speed said:


> There is no doubt a free standing wood stove of good quality is more efficient than an OWB. But having said that I love my OWB. It heats my house and my garage is warm too! As far as a pro installing my indoor stove, I would be standing over his shoulder watching every move he made.


How much wood do you think you burn throughout the course of a year?


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

There is one other option to consider...

They do sell wood fired central furnaces that hook into your existing duct work.. 

I'm not endorsing this link as I know nothing about this company.. I just googled "wood furnace"..

http://www.charmaster.com/furnaces.html

Something to consider?


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## Honkkilla59 (Dec 12, 2013)

Murphy said:


> There is some truth to what you say.. However, it all depends on how you're set up.
> A free standing wood stove that is 100% radiant heat is going to require a three to four foot clearance.. These are the type that start fires and I would stay away too..
> 
> But, if you get one that has an air jacket around it and a fan, they are almost zero clearance as the outside surface temps rarely go above that which will burn you.


90%of the fires from in home stoves start in the chimney or through where the chimney or liner exit the home. 
I had a insulated double wall liner installed through my existing chimney that failed if you doubt how many home fires are from in home system call a insurance adjuster or your local fire department and ask compared to outdoor wood boilers.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

AntiHuntersLoveMe said:


> How much wood do you think you burn throughout the course of a year?


 That's a tough question. I do not keep tract. I cut and split my wood at 30". I start cutting in April as soon as I can get in the woods. It usually takes me about a month of cutting stacking and splitting and drinking Bud. Probably 6 to 8 hr. days. As I'm cutting and splitting I burn all the short pieces and bark at that time. But I'm always on the lookout for easy pickens along side the road. If you don't like physical labor stay away from an OWB! I would also stay away from the new gasification stoves. Lots of maintenance on those and you need good dry wood. A good website is (The Forestry Forum.com) Hope I helped a bit. Don't mean to scare you away from an OWB. It's a labor of love. Also I burn from Sept.- the end of May. Research and research some more.


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

A friend of mine installed a outside wood burner this past fall. He's wanted one for quite a few years. He does a bit of side work for his father, his dad offered to have one installed, my friend accepted. So far he is not impressed with the amount of wood he's going through. He said its a pig. He and his father cut wood from their farm so its still feasible.

My neighbor is in the process of remodeling from a corn burning stove fire. Somehow, corn inside the hopper caught fire causing a ton of smoke damage. He bought a high quality unit.


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## AntiHuntersLoveMe (Apr 18, 2012)

Murphy said:


> They do sell wood fired central furnaces that hook into your existing duct work..


This would work great if I had a chimney...


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

Honkkilla59 said:


> 90%of the fires from in home stoves start in the chimney or through where the chimney or liner exit the home.
> I had a insulated double wall liner installed through my existing chimney that failed if you doubt how many home fires are from in home system call a insurance adjuster or your local fire department and ask compared to outdoor wood boilers.


 The worst chimney you can have for a woodstove is a masonry chimney on an outside wall. The best chimney is one that goes straight up through the roof no elbows. An outside wall chimney is cold. You want a warm chimney. A cold chimney promotes creosote.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

Another thing is if you have close neighbors, with an OWB they better be very close friends cause they are gonna smell smoke. Luckily I have acreage and they arenot too close. AgainI'm not trying to scare you away from an OWB, just putting it all out there.


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## AntiHuntersLoveMe (Apr 18, 2012)

2508speed said:


> The worst chimney you can have for a woodstove is a masonry chimney on an outside wall. The best chimney is one that goes straight up through the roof no elbows. An outside wall chimney is cold. You want a warm chimney. A cold chimney promotes creosote.


You know if it's possible to replace my existing gas/propane chimney for a double walled fireplace chimney? It'd be inside and a straight shot up through the roof...


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

AntiHuntersLoveMe said:


> This would work great if I had a chimney...


 Anti- what kind of system do you have in your house now? I have a propane boiler. OWB work great with a hot water system. Gotta go. Stay warm.


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## AntiHuntersLoveMe (Apr 18, 2012)

2508speed said:


> Anti- what kind of system do you have in your house now? I have a propane boiler. OWB work great with a hot water system. Gotta go. Stay warm.


As of now I have just a regular forced air furnace (Goodman). I use propane for stove, hot water heater and furnace. I will post pictures of my utility room layout and furnace setup tomorrow.


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

Honkkilla59 said:


> 90%of the fires from in home stoves start in the chimney or through where the chimney or liner exit the home.
> I had a insulated double wall liner installed through my existing chimney that failed if you doubt how many home fires are from in home system call a insurance adjuster or your local fire department and ask compared to outdoor wood boilers.


We are in 100% agreement on that! 

But that's not the root cause of the fire and the true cause can easily be prevented. 

As I understand it, most chimney fires happen because the owner burns wet wood in the stove or burns the stove at a smoldering level most of the time. 
Then, there are also the lazy cheap folks who fail to clean their chimney every year.

Wet wood: You see people lying all over craigslist selling "Seasoned wood" that looks like it was cut yesterday.. No shrink cracks, no bark falling off, no U.V damage causing the classic grey color.. If you burn wet wood, you not only lose all your money and effort up the chimney in the form of steam, but that creosote steam condenses and collects on the chimney walls. 
Then, one day, the owner gets his hands on some good dry stuff and gets a nice hot fire going.. That fire cooks the creosote and causes it to ignite.. Once that happens, its all over.
LEARN HOW TO IDENTIFY WHEN WOOD IS READY TO BURN...

Smoldering: An over sized wood stove that can easily overheat the house on even a cold winter day.. The owner tends to run it at a throttled down level where the stove doesn't use its after-burners or catalytic systems to burn hot and clean. Again, creosote builds up in the chimney and one day a hot fire ignites it.

Cleaning and Maintenance: If you heat with wood, you have to clean your chimney EVERY YEAR.. People think this is a difficult job but its not.. It takes me more time to get my ladder, carry it to the house, set it up, and go get my cleaning tools, than it does to actually perform the cleaning job. 
30 minutes from start to finish and I'm done once a year. People spend more time than that cutting the lawn every week. 
When I'm done cleaning, I get less than a coffee cup of black fluffy dry stuff that best resembles burnt rice-crispies.. and my stainless steel flex liner looks like stainless steel again.. clean and shiny... 

That's my take on it... 

Wood stoves don't burn homes down because they fail or malfunction.. Its always the owners who are the malfunction.. and that can happen with anything from a cigarette to a frying pan.


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## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

2508speed said:


> What do you mean by 5-8 cord? And how long is your heating season?


Of wood. Started in late sept for hot water and will stop probably end of April. If I still had my crappy windows I would use 8-10 cord of wood.


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## grapestomper (Jan 9, 2012)

I am in the U.P. This is my 4th winter with my Hardy wood stove. 
We heat about 2300 sf. plus my shop in the garage. Typically burn 9-10 cords per year. This year will probably be 13 cords. We keep the house at 72 and the shop at 45 on a unused basis. Just turn the heat up when you want to use it. I dont split any wood. Burn it all in rounds. Cut the wood to 25" roughly. Cut the wood in the spring and burn it the same year most of the time. 
I use to have a wood burner in the basement. Now I have no mess in the house what so ever. No bugs or other critters. 

The OWB also heats the hot water. There is a never ending supply of HOT water. Wife and kids love the hot showers. 

We burn from Oct. to in May some time. Always pick up the easy wood that neighbors have or friends want to get rid of. Never turn down free wood. It all burns. This past year due to work schedule I ended up buying 10 cords for $800.00 I will have some wood left out of that for this years supply. Otherwise will be cutting most of the wood this spring. 
This year was my break even point on the cost of the stove. 
Don't skimp on the underground insulation. If I would do it again I would up my underground insulation to the next level. The stove is insulated very well from the factory. The snow sits on top of it all winter long. I did all the install myself. rented a small excavator and did the install with the help of the wife. Good luck. Your house will be very compfortable with this stove. I fire it 2 times a day. 6am and 6pm roughly.


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## PLUMMER47 (Dec 9, 2006)

With this years propane debacle and even considering pre fuel price increases, burning wood for heat can be a great way to become energy independent. 

Burning any wood fueled device is only as dangerous as the person operating it. Inside versus outside is more of an outdoor wood stove salesman pitch than anything. When operated as instructed by manufacturer specs, its a very safe and reliable method that millions of homeowners enjoy. It's even more popular in Europe.

Fuels, can be wood chips, pellets or stick wood. Which one fits you best is your job to decide. Dry,dry,dry is the key to getting the most efficiency with the least amount of problems, except for chips. Both Portage & Main and Tarm/Froling offer chip boilers that can burn with excellent efficiency. Whether its a stove or boiler there are many options.
Price and efficiency, well you get what you pay for in this area. Indoor models , either boiler or stove will be a lot more efficient than any outdoor model even before we calculate the standby losses. 
A healthy dose of research should be done for any purchase, don't let dealer location or convenience determine what you buy. DIY are welcome, as long as you can follow manufacturer specs and local codes you can successfully handle the project for the mechanically inclined. I prefer hiring it out especially with boiler applications, but that's another thread. I support either when done right. 
I don't care for the scare tactics in this thread, percentages that are pulled from thin air , rumors and opinions more than fact. For every chimney fire , the report and pictures do NOT show a safe operating and installation environment. With the EPA and yuppie liberals always complaining, they have spread many myths and always the bad side of the story. While millions across the USA burn safely and cleanly. No other fuel is as renewable, cheap , clean and easy to access. Responsible owners and operation make the difference. There are many million dollar homes, businesses and farms that heat successfully in very urban areas both in Europe and the US. I don't think they would if it were sooooo dangerous or dirty.

Hearth.kom is a great resource for credible wood burning info. Many scientists,engineers, number crunchers over there with hard data to learn from. Kinda scary actually how much they get into it.


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