# Would you support Sandhill Crane hunting



## omega58 (Sep 3, 2003)

Would this have to go to a statewide vote like the dove vote? I thought the doves got put on by some stupid loophole of Prop G?

Anyway, I will be signing that petition saying that no out of state agencies can help with petitions to get things on the ballot. (I hope it would keep the HSUS out of here)

I think I'll petition to have our property be listed as Indiana so I can hunt doves.:lol:


----------



## yoopertoo (Nov 23, 2005)

omega58 said:


> Would this have to go to a statewide vote like the dove vote?


No.


----------



## FrankB (Dec 28, 2006)

I agree with shlwego, we should not have to vote on this. That is what the NRC is for. If they are not willing to do their job then they should be disbanded.


----------



## NEMichsportsman (Jul 3, 2001)

omega58 said:


> Would this have to go to a statewide vote like the dove vote? I thought the doves got put on by some stupid loophole of Prop G?


I think it would come down to whether the SHC is on the rolls presently as a gamebird or not. If it isn't then we can plan on a repeat of the Proposal 3 debacle.

IMHO we are better suited to try to defend the hunting, fishing, and trapping that we are allowed to do at the present time! There is not a lot of funding to fight every battle, I just don't want to see any of our privileges eroded.

In a perfect world I would say that we should go for it, but we are not equipped to do so. Another loss in the election would just reinforce the irreparable damage that has already occurred.


----------



## RichP (Jan 13, 2003)

yes, I would support it if the population is sustainable.



> There is not a lot of funding to fight every battle, I just don't want to see any of our privileges eroded.


agreed. Personally, I think the best battle to fight would be against the ballot process itself...

I'm by no means suggesting getting rid of it, but what I would like to see happen is a change to make the ballot proposal process a little more difficult. Difficult enough to where it would only be used for the most serious of matters. Someone mentioned in another thread a few months back something they do in Oregon that I think would be great here -- specifically, change the rules so it is illegal to pay signature gatherers. If/when the time comes for a SH Crane Season, it wouldn't be so easy for the HSUS to stop it...


----------



## tjfishinboy (Oct 5, 2006)

i said yes. its another way for the dnr to get money. but at the same time its another way to get the antis heated. also they do do a lot of crop damage. and they are the most anoying birds ever if your within a hudred and fifty yards of em and can hear them makin all that racket


----------



## chrisu (Dec 7, 2004)

cliffd said:


> We don't need to be voting for ANYTHING!
> 
> We have the DNR and the NRC that is supposed to be made up of experts in the the field of wildlife management. The only reason that the Dove bill found it's fate is because we allowed it to hit the ballot. None of this should ever hit the ballot for a popular vote. Let the experts determine what should happen and then live with their decision.


 
HEy folks - cliffd is right on...just remember that point when it comes time to vote for a Govoner. The only reason the Dove vote hit the ballots is bcause the current Govorner didn't want to make a decision and risk popularity...not making a partisan statement here, just stating that science was ignored for political popularity.


----------



## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

Before a season can be OKed by the Michigan DNR they have to have the OK from the FWS. 

Sandhill Cranes are a migratory bird and under control of the Feds. 

I lived next to the Walkinshaw wetlands in Oceana county for a few years. It ended up getting drained by our county drain commissioner. The farmers felt no loss because of the damage the cranes did to there corn and grain crops.

The draining was a big loss to waterfowl hunter but a boon to the farmers because fewer and fewer cranes stop over in the area during migration times.

RichP I am going to go to an Oregon hunting website and see if I can find out the details of there "NO paid signature gatherers law".


----------



## Alibi (Jan 31, 2004)

Not only that but before the DNR or NRC can do anything the legislature would have to approve making it a game bird.


----------



## Zorba (Jan 24, 2007)

I give it a big thumbs up. First of all, these birds are migrants. It's not about how many nesting pairs are in Michigan. These birds pass though our state by the thousands, and then their gone. We also need a swan season. I cant recall how many times I been out duck hunting and saw more swans than ducks.


----------



## walleyeman2006 (Sep 12, 2006)

its too bad the dove season even made it to the ballot ,,but i cant see this passing at the moment both doves and crains are migratory game birds as far as the federal government is concerned...the govner never should of let it get that far,,,
personally im all for it ...theres a few other migratory birds that need an open season too cormorants for one


----------



## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Doves migrate? Someone should tell the 25-35 that roost along the ditch beside my house and the other 5-10 that roost in my pine trees.

These cranes are the same one that are hunted in other states, just like the doves. Like some man made imaginary line means something to wild animals.


----------



## brdhntr (Oct 1, 2003)

multibeard said:


> -snip
> RichP I am going to go to an Oregon hunting website and see if I can find out the details of there "NO paid signature gatherers law".


That should be step #1 in our agenda. #2 give MDNR the ability determine game species.


----------



## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

I think Michigan hunters/trappers/sportsman need to focus our energy and money on holding onto what we have vs trying to make a new season for sandhills. Non-hunters love seeing those birds. I'm not saying that we shouldn't be able to hunt them if the bird numbers warrant it, I'm saying we'll burn up political goodwill with hunter neutral non-hunters on the political front and take a vote beating worse than the dove landslide. 
Michigan trapping is next on the agenda for the HSUS and I personally don't see a good way to stop them, with the general public. So, if the HSUS wins this next round, by working on the fringes, they'll get bolder if the general public is PO'ed because hunters pushed to shoot sandhills.
Again, I'm only looking at this in a political/pragmatic way. IMHO


----------



## yoopertoo (Nov 23, 2005)

Pinefarm said:


> IMichigan trapping is next on the agenda for the HSUS and I personally don't see a good way to stop them, with the general public. So, if the HSUS wins this next round, by working on the fringes, they'll get bolder if the general public is PO'ed because hunters pushed to shoot sandhills.
> Again, I'm only looking at this in a political/pragmatic way. IMHO


If the DNR establishes that the population does not warrant it then I would not favor a hunt, but the thought of cowering in the shadows because of what HSUS may do sucks.

I mean it may go the other way too, if the antis are constantly attacking hunting in the state it may reflect badly on them as well.


----------



## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

Well Im not ready to concede anything to HSUS including trapping. Why, because trapping is important in managing our wildlife let alone an endeavor that was instrumental in opening most of North America. I mean why would I even have to try and defend trapping here.

I dont think it is pragmatic, I think chicken *****. No offense Bob.

This bunch of extremists wouldnt have a chance if we actually put up some kind of defense. If we continue to show apathy like we did in the dove battle, all our sports will be lost. Then when animals get out of control professional snipers will be called in so no one will see the blood and no one will have to take a Valium. 

We know animals die so we can eat, but thats okay because I not only dont have to see the bleed come out of the animals, I dont even have to think about it. Sanatized!

Some extremely bright person once said; That what I have feared has come to pass. 

We need to fight this war together even if we dont all agree on all the specifics. We need to expose these misguided people just like PETA is being exposed now in court and show them for what they are. They are hypocrites and liars. We know that! We have reason, science an president on our side. 

If you havent heard what is going on with Peta, go to this link.
http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

By the way, Pinefarm and I may disagree on this issue, but we both have the same end goal. He respects my opinions and I respect his even if we don't agree. That is what I call sticking together.


----------



## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

Ray, I'm not saying that trapping isn't legit or that we're in a position to conceed anything. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that we're in a weak position on trapping IMHO and we'd better be very careful and smart on how we play the hand we have.
We'll see how it all plays out, but I don't have as positive of feelings as you do. You mention that animals have to die for us to eat. But that's going to be the HSUS anti-trapping campaign in a nutshell. They're going to press that people don't eat fox or coyotes and only use their fur. Again, I have no issue and I don't think anyone here does. But the soccer mom in the clean SUV 's will. 
Ray and I are not in disagreement on fighting the HSUS. I only feel that the timing to press for a new sandhill season anytime soon would be very poor. If we defeat the HSUS on trapping or whatever comes next, then maybe go after a crane season. I'd rather see all sportsmen put all energy into fighting HSUS instead of diverting energy on a new crane season at this time.


----------



## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

Bob,

Trapping or hunting animals for their fur is just as legitimate and customary as hunting them for food. It is just as legitimate to shoot them for sport. I used to hunt rats when I was a kid and there were still open dumps. I can easily make the case for cormorants and many others.

They won a victory on the dove, because of the emotion involved and no one gave people the other side of the issue. When they come after trapping, we need to go on the offense and expose them for what they are. If you read my link to the PETA court case it is clear that they are the liars and disingenuous jerks.

It will take money and we need someplace we can trust to use the money we raise to defend our positions and right now I don&#8217;t know what organization that is. I think the trappers are setting up an organization or just did set one up.

Set up the right defense fund and I won&#8217;t have any problem donating money to it and I don&#8217;t think many other hunters will have a problem either. I just don&#8217;t want to get ripped off like HSUS and PETA are ripping off people who think they are helping animals through the emotional pleas to these groups.

I am tired of waiting for them to attack us. I think we should attack them and run them down the road for being the hypocrites they are.

In the meantime, I see no great cry to hunt sand hill cranes and I agree with you it would not be a good idea to use it as a rallying point. Trapping is their main target because they can evoke and conjure lots of emotion with that issue. I&#8217;m for crushing these phonies and I will never not talk about any of my sports because I might offend some non hunter or fisherman. As Neil says &#8220;Hunters are the Humane Society&#8221;!


----------



## yoopertoo (Nov 23, 2005)

Splitshot said:


> I am tired of waiting for them to attack us. I think we should attack them and run them down the road for being the hypocrites they are.
> ...
> As Neil says &#8220;Hunters are the Humane Society&#8221;!


This is a very good point. Done tackfully, truthfully and *repeatably* I see no reason that hunting can not be portrayed for what it is - a very natural and legitimate part of our economy. There will always be people who will be against hunting, but we only need to reach the general society to win.


----------



## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

I agree Ray and I also agree with Pinefarm. 
My stance on crane hunting wasn't all that fueled, now tell me that my new found hobby, trapping is in jepordy and I may become and extremist (inside joke there) :lol: 
There will be a time again, in the not to distant future when they will come after us as Pinefarm eluded too and we either better be ready or as Ray said have an offense all ready at hand that'll make them think twice. 
Losing the dove bill is different than taking something from us that we already have. There was a lot of love lost recently over the bobcat issue, that is something to be concerned with.

The stakes are high, IMHO very very high.


----------

