# Higher gun show admission?



## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

Many attend the annual Midland gun show. However, this year the door fee is 9.00 ea. I have heard dealers have dropped from doing it fearing a reduced customer base [I wouldnt do it for that reason]
I wondered how many of you as customers would not attend because of this STEEP fee?
I also have heard [not yet confirmed] Doug Carl will be putting a Grand Rapids show together that same weekend so as the vendors have an opportunity to work another show. I am leaning toward the GR show myself. In the past he had not put a show up agaunst the Midland show [for a time they were both held at Birch Run and essentially the same vendors] but I think there just may be enough vendors who think that charge is too steep.


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## lwingwatcher (Mar 25, 2001)

You will never see me at a gun show if I have to drop that kind of coin.

I have been to far too many over the years that were a disappointment, even with a lesser admission charge.


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

when few people show up, or people turn away from the door.


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

I just looked at the Grand Rapids Deltaplex web site and the gun show there March 4 & 5 is $6 with seniors over 65 at $5. 12 and under FREE


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

Its basically the same sized show, but charging a lot more money. Doesnt make good sense when the economy is so bad.


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## Gil Martin (Jan 18, 2003)

Got tired of the high entrance fees, beef jerky, Nazi memorabilia, tools, clothing, high prices for beat up guns and the same stale merchandise. Have always done much better at gun shops. All the best...
Gil


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## Big_Jim (Jul 26, 2000)

I think $6 at BR is a rip, $9, no way. Too much of the same stuff, overpriced guns and junk. I can do better at local shops and online.

On a positive note, I have found some good deals on the books. Thats the only reason I'd go now.


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## Smith & Wesson man (Oct 22, 2005)

If the prices keeping going up I will probably also stop going. When you go to those gun shows it is like hit or miss. I have gone and found some nice stuff for a good price, but then sometimes I see nothing but the same stuff. I was really looking for handgun dies, and the ones I found were used and way over priced. I started to get into reloading and I am always on the lookout for dies, brass, and maybe even used presses. At the gun shows they are asking way to much, and I can get them cheaper online and they are new. Not trying to be negative, I just remember as a kid having a great time looking at the different guns and gear at the shows, and my dad telling me about them.


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## Rustyaxecamp (Mar 1, 2005)

I will still attend the Midland show, mostly because it's in my town, but also because I get to see some of the local gun guys that I don't see as much as I would like to.

Keep in mind that one reason the Midland show used to be so "good" was that it was before Birch Run was having one every three days and they (I've been told) used to restrict who could get a table. They wanted a high quality show, not like the ones in BR that have a lot of non-gun related items (junk crafts, WWII memorabilia, clothes, BlueBlocker knock off sunglasses, pieces of assorted glassware from the MASH unit for making meth labs or moonshine stills, coins, etc).

I know the coast was high last year too, but I would assume the even higher cost this year is due to them having it at a new location.

For those that decide to come, See you there!


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## Topshelf (May 24, 2005)

Gil Martin said:


> Got tired of the high entrance fees, beef jerky, Nazi memorabilia, tools, clothing, high prices for beat up guns and the same stale merchandise. Have always done much better at gun shops. All the best...
> Gil


My two sons and I went to the silverdome a few weeks ago. 9 bucks to get in. I downloaded a coupon for a buck off but it was still way over priced. 

Like Gil said, All the guns were priced at twice the normal prices, Nazi freaks at one booth, beef jerky and cheap Chineese knives and tools. I WONT ever go to that show again. 

Gibraltor is much better as far as vendors and cheaper admin price. Usually we go to buy Mil Surplus ammo and they have some decent deals if you look around.

Williams in Flint has a much better selection of guns and the prices are realistic.


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## alex-v (Mar 24, 2005)

We could hold a gun show of our own and kick out the jerky peddlers, the artsy craftsy stuff with cute pictures of deer and ducks, the first aid guys, and the war memorabilia people. Then we divide the hall rental up among whoever is left and see if any of them want to reserve a table. If to many of them decide to not get a table we could just raise the admittance price. Eventually, we will make our money back.

It is a vicious cycle. The promoter has to sell enough table space to pay the rent, the insurance, the security, and the promotions. The paying public has to help out and pay something to get in and hopefully when it is all said and done the promoter made enough to pay his bills and show a profit.

The $9 admissions are going to become more common. Ain't much that is going down in price.


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

Rustyaxecamp said:


> I will still attend the Midland show, mostly because it's in my town, but also because I get to see some of the local gun guys that I don't see as much as I would like to.
> 
> Keep in mind that one reason the Midland show used to be so "good" was that it was before Birch Run was having one every three days and they (I've been told) used to restrict who could get a table. They wanted a high quality show, not like the ones in BR that have a lot of non-gun related items (junk crafts, WWII memorabilia, clothes, BlueBlocker knock off sunglasses, pieces of assorted glassware from the MASH unit for making meth labs or moonshine stills, coins, etc).
> 
> ...


 Midland better HOPE they can get enough guys to attend that show. Its basically the SAME guys that do Birch Run..........If theres another show the same weekend [G-R] That place will suck even worse [Midland] I am already leaning at doing the G-R show if its open...........from what we have seen here 9.00 at the door is not going to happen...plus the dealers are paying 55 a table for Midland VS 45 at GR..............I need to find the flyer Midland sent claiming that people would attend at 50.00 at the door.........Someone needs to wake up.


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## Frantz (Dec 9, 2003)

I can go to Jays or Gander MT for free to handle and see all the guns I want and then to other dealers to compare prices and still have $2 leftover for the dollare menu at MCDonalds after I pay for gas. I already pay to have the internet and there are good deals there as well.

I guess I am saying, for $9, they can keep their shows and watch them fade away, there are to many free places to look at guns to be asking an extra $3-$5 admission.


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

Frantz said:


> I can go to Jays or Gander MT for free to handle and see all the guns I want and then to other dealers to compare prices and still have $2 leftover for the dollare menu at MCDonalds after I pay for gas. I already pay to have the internet and there are good deals there as well.
> 
> I guess I am saying, for $9, they can keep their shows and watch them fade away, there are to many free places to look at guns to be asking an extra $3-$5 admission.


The more that Bit** the better, then the price may be regulated for admission..........However when I can find ballistic tip or Hornady V-Max at 4-5 bucks a box......then Id stop going to shows lol. Not likely to find those below wholesale prices at gun shops!!!


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## Doeboy (Oct 20, 2005)

I stop going to Gun Show they charge too much, that's what I think. Now I just surf the WEB it's alot easyer and cheaper on GAS!    I don't think they should charge at all at the door. Then may be I might think of going again.


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## anonymous21 (Jul 22, 2005)

Makes you wonder if the people runing the arena are anti gun peta nuts,they have to know the price at the door of the other shows.maybe they are just trying to force it out by raising price so no one will come.It would be a shame to see a local show go under,seems like the bigger one's are half full of nazi/ninja crap.


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## Rustyaxecamp (Mar 1, 2005)

It's at a new indoor basketball thing they built up here. I think it it owned by local guys. Not PETA whackos as far as I know, but they can be sneaky buggers. 

The civic arena they used to have it at is ready for demolition and the new arena will still have ice down (I think).

I'm not defending the $9, just giving a local view.


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## Frantz (Dec 9, 2003)

Sorry to say but the burden should be in the show providers (such and J&J Gun Shows) to come up with the funding for these shows, with minimal investment my the patrons. Increase the table cost for the guys selling their products. they will either pass on the cost or not depending on what and how much they expect to sell. Why should the guy looking to spend, possibley hundreds of dollars, have to fork out more money to come in and buy things.

To me it is like having to pay $5 to get into Mcdonalds on the concept that their food is cheaper than Big Boy which is jsut up the road. Hmmmm, a combo meal for $4.99 plus a $5 adminssion, or a combo meal for $7.99 no admission?


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

Frantz said:


> Sorry to say but the burden should be in the show providers (such and J&J Gun Shows) to come up with the funding for these shows, with minimal investment my the patrons. Increase the table cost for the guys selling their products. they will either pass on the cost or not depending on what and how much they expect to sell. Why should the guy looking to spend, possibley hundreds of dollars, have to fork out more money to come in and buy things.
> 
> To me it is like having to pay $5 to get into Mcdonalds on the concept that their food is cheaper than Big Boy which is jsut up the road. Hmmmm, a combo meal for $4.99 plus a $5 adminssion, or a combo meal for $7.99 no admission?


 that way.
First off, we have the costs of tables, gas and lodging for 2 day shows. If I try to sell something, I have to make a profit [usually minimal] I cant just jack up the price as you suggest. Much as guys will bail at a 9 dollar gate fee, they will also NOT buy an item if I have to raise it.
I think a fair and reasonable gate is fine, and thats why the promoters are there in the first place [to make money for themselves]. However, I do not consider 9 for admission anywhere near fair. 
With gas being what it is [and higher] many dealers are being forced to cut back because they cannot afford the expense to do business.
Those that do attend shows can be some of the biggest cheapskates also, you cannot believe the morons we deal with on a regular basis....[I love insulting them to get the deer in the head lights look]. I put out a fair price and dont expect to have to listen to idiots tell me Ill take their offer....Not today.


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## Frantz (Dec 9, 2003)

Cool, you are one of the vendors for these events and I can understand what you are saying, and thinking about it, it all makes sense. well at least most of it.

It can understand the moron comment to some extent but when I go to the shows, I try to deal on everything, and I mean everything I look to purchase, and the attitude of the person behind the counter makes a huge differance on where I buy, same cost or not. To a lot of people (obviously not the vendors), part of the ambiance is to have a good time, dicker a little on pricing and make a deal. I am not talking stupid negotiations or offers, but seeing the ruger 10/22 for $190 and saying "I'll give you $175 for it and hearing a counter of $185 and we won't worry about the governors cut" kinda thing. Heck I try for a deal at Jays and Gander Mt as well.

People go to the shows to be cheap and get the deals, but you are right to some extent on that, but the cheapskates go everywhere


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

treestand6 said:


> I have only been to about 10 gun shows. I was disapointed in alot of the non gun junk there.
> 
> I also took a German Schutzen to a couple shows---most of the dealers there didn't even know what it was. I was offered $1000.--and--$5000.for it---It's value is around $10,000---I would ahve sold it for a good offer!
> 
> Shows are OK if you are looking for cheap ammo or some odd things--if you have something collectable don't bother at the local shows!


First off, you must know what you have into it? Or did you inherit it, scam it from a garage sale for 50 bucks or what? Then...........Bluebook is a GUIDE, not set in stone. That isnt a high turn over item, meaning the dealer who buys it has to know of a buyer to make a PROFIT. If you were offered 5 grand and didnt take it Id question that. Its a depressed market out there and buyers know this. Condition is everything for a gun like that. If it were mine Id auction it off with a reputable Auctioneer or do a consignment with a high end dealer. Guns like that do NOT usually sell at your average gun show. One....Most dealers dont deal in antiques [Might try the Antique arms show in Novi, as they specialize] most guns over 500 is getting into the rareified zone. Most attendees are blue collar guys. Although its a collectible gun, Id say 90% of current show attendance would have NO use for your gun. Thats why you got little feedback. Its out of their price range and who wants to pay 10K for a wallhanger?


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## treestand6 (May 7, 2003)

Huntsman said: "First off, you must know what you have into it? Or did you inherit it, scam it from a garage sale for 50 bucks or what? '


What I have in it has nothing to do with the value of the gun!

I got little feedback because no-one knew what it was! Except 2 dealers!

Do dealers sell a gun for what they have in it---and I don't "scam" anything!


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

treestand6 said:


> Huntsman said: "First off, you must know what you have into it? Or did you inherit it, scam it from a garage sale for 50 bucks or what? '
> 
> 
> What I have in it has nothing to do with the value of the gun!
> ...


 Nice turn around. Most dealers will give 50% because they have to make something and with the market the way it is ....thats not much. Or they have to sit on it and wait.....maybe a long time. A fast turn around and you have a different set of circumstances. Iam 44 yrs old and knew exactly what you had...........been around guns all my life. You got little feed back becasue of what I explained to you, many know what you have but 1-arent interested in a wall hanger, or 2- cant afford it and dont even acknowledge you. No sense wasting time with someone that has something you cant afford. and Lastly YOU seem to think its worth 10K right, lots of guys carry 10K to a gun show to buy a Schuetzen. There isnt much demand for them. Its a small group of collectors and your hoping to spy one who will pay MAX book for it....Good luck. Much akin to me taking my Perazzi TMX1 trap gun to a show and getting 5K because I have taken excellent care of it.
Iam not saying you sell it for what you have into it.....just one has to realize a profit. Just because you got it for [Example] 200 dollars from MRS Smith because her husband died....and you want 10 K? Id much rather post it and auction it and go from there. I hope you get a good amount for your find. Nothing wrong with that.
However you cant dismiss gun shows as all bad just because you couldnt sell a 10K gun. Same as a Homeowner trying to sell a 200K house.


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## Topshelf (May 24, 2005)

I have been around guns my whole life and had never heard of a Schuetzen rifle and I always thought of myself as a fairly knowledgable gun person. So my point is that it sounds like a specialty type of gun that most guys wouldnt know unless they looked it up. So I did just that and looked it up on the net. Cool looking piece, but Huntsman is right on all his points. 



> You got little feed back becasue of what I explained to you, many know what you have but 1-arent interested in a wall hanger, or 2- cant afford it and dont even acknowledge you. No sense wasting time with someone that has something you cant afford. and Lastly YOU seem to think its worth 10K right, lots of guys carry 10K to a gun show to buy a Schuetzen.


The average gun show attendee and or Vendor is not going to be looking for or have 10 k in his pocket for such a piece unless they know of a buyer with cash. The one below that I looked up online has a price of $4950.00 on it. It was the first hit on Google. Seems right in line with what you were offered?

http://www.germanguns.com/forsale/goergen.html

I like German WWII weapons. You can literally spend thousands on a specific type and grade of K98 Mauser. Example, so if I was looking for a K98 Sniper gun with all the Waffen marks and bells and whistles, I probably wouldnt be looking at a local gun show. Odds are against such a piece being there or a vendor selling it for what its actually worth. I would end up looking somewhere the specializes in high end Military weapons or collectables like yours.

Just my 2 cents worth


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## dodge7 (Jan 18, 2005)

Schuetzen rifles are very rare and very unique, but one has to remember that no matter what a book says, a firearm, like any other commadity(sp), is only what the market will bare, on any given day. It is the same old story, of supply and demand, in todays market, high end weapons, (high end brownings, kreighoffs, fox, etc.) are not in very high demand in our area. Most dealers only deal in merchandise with a quick turn around time. Unfortunenantly yours isnt one of them.
Lastly a lot of factors go into the formula when assessing a weapons value.You may have an exceptional weapon, in pristine cond. Which would greatly enhance its value. But remember, its actual value is determined by its marketability on the day you sell it. 
I have dealt with guns over twenty five years, and have only seen a couple of Schutzens. And never one in this area. So don't blast dealers, they are essentially buisnessmen.


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## flinch (Aug 10, 2003)

I think they handle the fees backwards. They should charge on the way out the door based on what you bought while there. Something like this:

10 bucks if you are empty handed
7 bucks if you bought anything
5 bucks if you bought at least 50 bucks worth of stuff
nothing if you bought at least 100 bucks worth of stuff

That way you can get at least some of your money back if you were planning on buying anyway and attendance should go up. For most of us, 9 or 10 bucks take care of most, if not all of the money we save by going to the show in the first place and buying supplies there.


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## treestand6 (May 7, 2003)

From the Gunrunner antique firearms:

German Schutzen, 7.7mm cal., TARGET
$9,995.00 
SN: 30523
German Schutzen Target Rifle built by W. Weisgerber St. Wendel in 1925. W.W. II bring back as a war trophy. Extensively engraved with upgraded wood - definitely a higher class "Gentleman's Gun". Case hardening is 95% on the receiver and trigger guard. There is a maiden with mugs on beer on one side and a gentleman smoking a pipe on the other - very vivid and well engraved - high grade. Bore is extremely well rifled and shiny. Barrel is octagon and fluted with high front globe sight. Rear tang target sight is missing. Cresent butt plate. Outstand burled wood with huge cheek piece. Gorgeous piece! 

This is the exact gun that I have. I have seen 100's of these guns and this is the best I have seen. 

The sale price of anything is what the buyer is willing to pay!


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

treestand6 said:


> From the Gunrunner antique firearms:
> 
> German Schutzen, 7.7mm cal., TARGET
> $9,995.00
> ...


 Its an Art piece not a shooter. Art is only worth what someone offers. No doubt its probably a beautiful piece. But you have something in the rareified zone.......get up there in price and your clientele shrinks markedly. Same with your 98K snipers, M1D snipers, and many others. Nice guns but not everyone can afford one.


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