# Todd farm legalities...what would you do?



## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

I wish more people had an interest in learning and following the waterfowl laws.

I too, always know exactly which bird I drew on and shot.
I don't do "group hunts, group shoots, party limits, or whatever current excuse for law breaking somebody comes up with". I don't use kids as a way to skirt the laws either.

I voluntarily give "claimer's" birds I shot. Right up to their limit. Bands, collars, and all.Then I tell them to put their gun away.

Following the laws, rather than constantly looking for excuses to break them, is freeing. No worries in the field. Just enjoyment. Just a happy focus on fooling them, and hitting them in the head. With great meals to follow with friends.

If more people learned the laws, there'd be fewer threads about how after breaking the law, the person had to buy their way out of deeper penalties.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

To be clear, I or anyone in my party has never shot my daughter's birds. We've gladly sat in the rain for hours, with our limits on hand, passing 20 yard shots trying to land or square up birds for her.

Granted one black duck paid for that as we only had mallards down.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Gamekeeper said:


> I too, always know exactly which bird I drew on and shot.
> I don't do "group hunts, group shoots, party limits, or whatever current excuse for law breaking somebody comes up with". I don't use kids as a way to skirt the laws either.


For the most part people know but you can't always say you are 100% certain all the time. I had a situation in the 2 day late hunt this yr. Large Flock of geese came in. 4 of us hunting. 3 shot at same bird. And one shot at a bird to the side. I pulled the trigger with my sights on a goose floating in front of me. The bird immediately folds and simultaneously the bird right behind it folds. I actually felt I may have hit both with one shot. Come to find out my 2 partners to the left of me shot at the same bird closest to us. We all thought we nailed 2 with one shot. Whose birds are they? Didn't really matter because we only took 3 geese total all from one Flock.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Gamekeeper said:


> I wish more people had an interest in learning and following the waterfowl laws.
> 
> I too, always know exactly which bird I drew on and shot.
> I don't do "group hunts, group shoots, party limits, or whatever current excuse for law breaking somebody comes up with". I don't use kids as a way to skirt the laws either.
> ...


You sound like a very unhappy, righteous and sad individual. Take a chill pill. We all know you are a perfect citizen. We get it. If I could give you a high five I would.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

DirtySteve said:


> For the most part people know but you can't always say you are 100% certain all the time. I had a situation in the 2 day late hunt this yr. Large Flock of geese came in. 4 of us hunting. 3 shot at same bird. And one shot at a bird to the side. I pulled the trigger with my sights on a goose floating in front of me. The bird immediately folds and simultaneously the bird right behind it folds. I actually felt I may have hit both with one shot. Come to find out my 2 partners to the left of me shot at the same bird closest to us. We all thought we nailed 2 with one shot. Whose birds are they? Didn't really matter because we only took 3 geese total all from one Flock.


Careful now. Don't be honest on here. Mr. Righteous will start preaching how he is better than you and does no wrong. Ever.


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## Tavor (Sep 10, 2011)

Gamekeeper said:


> I wish more people had an interest in learning and following the waterfowl laws.
> 
> I voluntarily give "claimer's" birds I shot. Right up to their limit. Bands, collars, and all. Then I tell them to put their gun away.


Wait... So, if I can convince someone else to "claim" my birds, I can just keep blazing away? And it's perfectly legal? I never knew that.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Tavor said:


> Wait... So, if I can convince someone else to "claim" my birds, I can just keep blazing away? And it's perfectly legal? I never knew that.


I don't believe he said "convince". Just that if someone else thinks they shot it he doesn't argue the point.

The OP asked about a 2 person scenario. The law is clear and so it comes to your own ethics. But if both came up blazing at the next bird one could get a ticket


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## Dead Bird (Oct 2, 2001)

fowlpursuit said:


> If your hunting the farm with a single partner a a flock comes in.. You both fire 3 birds fall. No distinction who shot what birds but there's 3 dead. Can u both continue hunting or must one claim a limit and pack his gun?


since you still have other species open the gun can remain... you can still hunt ie call.. flag etc.. BUT... there better only be one of you shooting the next Canadian to close out your daily....


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## Tavor (Sep 10, 2011)

TSS Caddis said:


> I don't believe he said "convince". Just that if someone else thinks they shot it he doesn't argue the point.
> 
> The OP asked about a 2 person scenario. The law is clear and so it comes to your own ethics. But if both came up blazing at the next bird one could get a ticket


He said he voluntarily gives away birds he shot. Spin it any way you want; he's still shooting more than he's allowed, and he's doing it _knowingly_. I don't see how that's any more ethical than the guys who truthfully admit they don't know whose shot actually killed the bird. Frankly, I think he out-clevered himself.

"But if both came up blazing at the next bird one could get a ticket"

Which one?


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

As stated in the ops scenario I would remain loaded in case a snow does make an appearance. However, like it's been said only one person better shoot if a goose comes in.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Tavor said:


> He said he voluntarily gives away birds he shot. Spin it any way you want; he's still shooting more than he's allowed, and he's doing it _knowingly_. I don't see how that's any more ethical than the guys who truthfully admit they don't know whose shot actually killed the bird. Frankly, I think he out-clevered himself.
> 
> "But if both came up blazing at the next bird one could get a ticket"
> 
> Which one?


Glaringly clear what he said/meant. "I voluntarily give "claimer's" birds I shot. Right up to their limit. Bands, collars, and all.Then I tell them to put their gun away."

Not sure where the confusion could be.

For which ticket, maybe Dead Bird can answer how he'd determine who to write one. But it really would probably come down to the question, "show me the last bird, who shot it?" The other person gets a ticket.

Trying to get cute and skirt he law is pathetic.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Right. I've done the same before. However, you are still knowingly shooting more than your limit in said situation. The only difference is who has possession. In all reality none of this matters. 3 guys hunting shooting can shoot 18 ducks. 18 ducks killed is 18 ducks killed. There's been many situations where multiple people claim a bird. It is what it is.


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## Tavor (Sep 10, 2011)

TSS Caddis said:


> Glaringly clear what he said/meant. "I voluntarily give "claimer's" birds I shot. Right up to their limit. Bands, collars, and all.Then I tell them to put their gun away."
> 
> Not sure where the confusion could be.
> 
> ...





TSS Caddis said:


> Glaringly clear what he said/meant. "I voluntarily give "claimer's" birds I shot. Right up to their limit. Bands, collars, and all.Then I tell them to put their gun away."
> 
> Not sure where the confusion could be.
> 
> ...



"I voluntarily give "claimer's" birds I shot. Right up to their limit. Bands, collars, and all. Then I tell them to put their gun away."

Filling other people's limits first, with "birds I shot", then filling my own limit last doesn't sound like ethical behavior to me. Bands and collars have nothing to do with anything. And nobody is being cute. If we truly don't know who actually killed the bird, then we just don't know, and nothing will change that.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Tavor said:


> "I voluntarily give "claimer's" birds I shot. Right up to their limit. Bands, collars, and all. Then I tell them to put their gun away."
> 
> Filling other people's limits first, with "birds I shot", then filling my own limit last doesn't sound like ethical behavior to me. Bands and collars have nothing to do with anything. And nobody is being cute. If we truly don't know who actually killed the bird, then we just don't know, and nothing will change that.


Im assuming you don't duck hunt much since your not comprehending what he said. I'll try to make it more clear. When he thinks he shot a bird and someone else in his party thinks they shot the same bird, he lets the other person claiming the bird have it. Someone legally has to claim the bird for their daily limit, you can make that determination in a number of ways, he's just voluntarily giving up his claim to the bird. Perfectly ethical.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

I will unload if we're down to one goose. However, if we're down to one duck and it hits the water head up, we're all spraying until it rolls over.

Guy who knocks it down gets it but every body better be swatting until it's 60 out.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

It shouldn't come as any surprise that there are waterfowler's that follow the laws.
Lots of broke working guys walking around the courthouse. That shouldn't be news either.

It's easier to read a little pamphlet than to buy an attorney a bigger boat.
Hopefully for most, it's one and done. People make mistakes.

There's no shame in only taking birds on the left or right. Or only drakes, or running backup. Or not emptying your gun at every bird. Or casing it when you've shot enough, are shooting poorly, or you just want to work the dog. Double shot birds have to count against someone's strap.
It used to be seen as graciousness to not argue with a hunting partner over who shot what. God forbid.

If preliminary reports are true, it looks like we can say good bye to the early teal season for indiscriminant shooting. The data collected doesn't seem very encouraging. I'm sure someone has an explanation for that as well.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

A lot of times that is how it goes too. Sure everyone had to claim a possession on a bird but if one were to get technical ( which I don't, but just to prove a point) it's still knowingly shooting more than your own personal limit. It really doesn't matter though. A bird shot is a bird shot. We did this in Arkansas. Everyone kept their own birds with them around a tree on A separate lanyard. The obvious birds you shot went with you. When a big Fock came in and lots of birds were dead they were divided up. They were informed to do it this way by Arkansas game and fish.


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## Tavor (Sep 10, 2011)

TSS Caddis said:


> Im assuming you don't duck hunt much since your not comprehending what he said. I'll try to make it more clear. When he thinks he shot a bird and someone else in his party thinks they shot the same bird, he lets the other person claiming the bird have it. Someone legally has to claim the bird for their daily limit, you can make that determination in a number of ways, he's just voluntarily giving up his claim to the bird. Perfectly ethical.


No need to be condescending; I hunt enough, and have been hunting ducks since the early '70's.
I know exactly what he meant. I don't like the self-righteousness in his attitude, because, in the end, he's no more ethical than the next guy. How very big of him to tell the _other guy_ to put his gun away. Multiple people shoot the same duck all the time. Unless you limit the shooting to one guy at a time, there's no way around it, and there's no perfect way to handle the situation. It is a gray area that is not explicitly dealt with in the wording of the game laws. This topic comes up regularly on every duck forum I have ever visited. There is always a handful of guys who come charging in slinging all kinds of made-up requirements about how it should be handled.


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## duckaddict (Sep 23, 2014)

So what happens when 2 guys shoot at the same bird with the new colored ammo (unsure of actual name), and two different colors appear on the bird? Riddle me that...someone has to take responsibility for it, hence we have no way to avoid the god forsaken "party limit."


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## jwinks (Mar 20, 2014)

duckaddict said:


> So what happens when 2 guys shoot at the same bird with the new colored ammo (unsure of actual name), and two different colors appear on the bird? Riddle me that...someone has to take responsibility for it, hence we have no way to avoid the god forsaken "party limit."


Have to wait for the autopsy results to shoot the last bird in your limit.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Party limit is 3 guys 18 birds where some have more than 6 some less. In the colored shot scenario, one of the guys who shot it would have to claim it, that's not a party limit.


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## duckaddict (Sep 23, 2014)

TSS Caddis said:


> Party limit is 3 guys 18 birds where some have more than 6 some less. In the colored shot scenario, one of the guys who shot it would have to claim it, that's not a party limit.


But then you are "sharing birds". It is all based on the same principle. How do you deem who made the kill shot? As jwinks said, got to send it out for autopsy I guess. Hopefully you can make it back to the water before end of shooting. The best CO wouldn't be able to distinguish the difference and I would welcome the opportunity to stand in front of a judge to hear his reasoning if thats what you want to call it. He has ZERO basis to make the subjective accusation. 

Often more than one guy shoots at the same bird (more than likely, the closest one) and you give it to whoever has the least amount of birds. 

Every single one of us have participated in "party limits" whether intentionally or unintentionally in some form or another. Unless you hunt by yourself. I can say I haven't been that close to a limit to worry about it. 

And not to start a war, but I would be interested in the freezers of the "big shooters" on this forum. I'd bet they are over their possession limit in one species or another.


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## grassmaster (Jan 10, 2009)

Technically each hunter must keep his birds in a separate pile next to him . unless its a no limit hunt like spring snow geese.
Two COs will usually separate you and ask each hunter which birds are his, things get pretty sticky if you get the wrong CO.
Did you know you can get a ticket if your out late goose hunting and start calling ducks when duck season is closed!
"attempting to take or lure wild game out of season"
You can also be ticketed for being in the field where hunting is taking place without a gun or a license, if in any way you participate in the hunt.
setting decoys, brushing blinds, retrieving birds ect. you need a license to do this even if you have no gun with you.


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## deadduck365 (Nov 5, 2010)

One man layout hunt. Who takes possession of cripple shot by tender? Tender or layout hunter?


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## jwinks (Mar 20, 2014)

grassmaster said:


> Did you know you can get a ticket if your out late goose hunting and start calling ducks when duck season is closed!
> "attempting to take or lure wild game out of season"


I always wondered this, cause I've been tempted to set decoys out of season in like a city park, just to watch mallards work the decoys.


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## Sparky13 (Sep 22, 2013)

grassmaster said:


> Technically each hunter must keep his birds in a separate pile next to him . unless its a no limit hunt like spring snow geese.
> Two COs will usually separate you and ask each hunter which birds are his, things get pretty sticky if you get the wrong CO.
> Did you know you can get a ticket if your out late goose hunting and start calling ducks when duck season is closed!
> "attempting to take or lure wild game out of season"
> ...


Then how can you be a guest at managed areas? Meaning you can be on the ticket but don't need a license as long as you are not hunting.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Have set decoys to take pictures of spring ducks. No gun along, not trying to "take" but I certainly "lured" them.


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## wavie (Feb 2, 2004)

Grassmaster, so I am field hunting for ducks while goose season is closed. I am using my large goose spread and only duck mojos for attraction. We want to make it sound realistic, so all of us are calling ducks and making goose sounds. Please cite a source that says I can not do this.

Same scenario but different species. I am coyote hunting using a fawn decoy with distress calls in march. Have had deer come running in to check it out and from your explanation I will be ticketed at "attempting to lure" a deer out of season?


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

I don't think the regs call out "killing shot". If you shot the bird it goes in your bag. If 2 of you shot the bird it has to go into ones bag total for the day. If you shot a duck out of the layout and the tender shoots the cripple it goes to the layout hunters bag. Party limits is saying we have 18 to take, everyone shoot till 18 are down. Again, don't try to get so cute trying to figure out holes in the law.

The law is very straight forward. If you choose to hunt for a party limit anyway, just be prepared that you are leaving yourself open for a ticket.


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## jwinks (Mar 20, 2014)

What if I shoot a bird, but an eagle picks it up and flies off? Can I shoot another one? Does the eagle get a ticket?


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

We had an eagle pick up a merg. Then drop it again. Even eagles don't like merg.


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## grassmaster (Jan 10, 2009)

Remember game laws are like traffic laws, sometimes the cop lets you roll through a light sometimes he doesn't.
Its under the officers discretion, all these violations were written up and issued.
Had a group of guys who fired into a huge tube of blackbirds once. didn't cut a feather which was astonishing in itself
Guess what? the birds had red wings, and are considered migratory, even though none were harmed 2 tickets at $150 each were issued.make sure those blackbirds are grackles or starlings, redwings are a ticket.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

jwinks said:


> I always wondered this, cause I've been tempted to set decoys out of season in like a city park, just to watch mallards work the decoys.



I think you can do this. You wouldn't be carrying a gun so you aren't attempting to take game.


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## duckaddict (Sep 23, 2014)

TSS Caddis said:


> I don't think the regs call out "killing shot". If you shot the bird it goes in your bag. If 2 of you shot the bird it has to go into ones bag total for the day. If you shot a duck out of the layout and the tender shoots the cripple it goes to the layout hunters bag. Party limits is saying we have 18 to take, everyone shoot till 18 are down. Again, don't try to get so cute trying to figure out holes in the law.
> 
> The law is very straight forward. If you choose to hunt for a party limit anyway, just be prepared that you are leaving yourself open for a ticket.


Not trying to get "cute" by any means...the law, which I havent read and dont have the time to search for it...seems so black and white but it is so far from it. It is so subjective. 

But anyways, I dont hunt with 8 guys and I dont shoot limits. So I have nothing to worry about it.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

As old people used to say back when character actually mattered, "It's what you do when no one is looking that defines your character."

It's easy out in the field to keep your claimed birds next to you, and then do all the dead bird pile photos and gifting/re-gifting amongst the group back at the truck.

As sanctimonious as it sounds, it really is quite fun to just case the gun and watch the show sometimes.

I used to shoot ShiFed years back, and it was 1 a day. We often filled quick, and pulled the dekes. It was disruptive to other parties to trudge back while geese were flying. And they often flew enmass, so if you screwed another party, that might be it for them. Watching the show is nearly as fun as killing them up close. Learn to talk to them. Removing the shooting issue can improve your understanding of the game just by taking the time to observe.

And of course you don't get tickets, and you don't have to do any 'splainin'.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

Yeah, eleven pages of splainin' is enough


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

grassmaster said:


> make sure those blackbirds are grackles or starlings, redwings are a ticket.


Grackles are money birds as well.....


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## Lurker (Jan 25, 2009)

just do like the waterfowl tv shows.
everyone unloads at one bird and then sez "nice shot".


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

craigrh13 said:


> I was referring to people who hunt in "large" groups. It's almost impossible to say exactly who shot what.


I also don't party shoot (although I have in years past). We typically call the first shot while the birds are on the wing. We rotate who gets first shot, and that way you normally don't get three guys shooting at the same time. Until of course the birds flare after the first shot...then it's chaos as usual in duck hunting. Now if a flock of teal comes screaming in on the group, it's pretty much who can react quickly and get a shot off.


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