# HVAC Question



## Gillgitter (Nov 5, 2003)

I am adding a 20' X 20" addition ( rec room, closet and bathroom ) on the cottage. The existing forced air furnace is about tapped out so something independent for the addition will be needed. I have three contractors giving quotes. Two of them are suggesting mini split heating / cooling units. The other hasn't really specified anything yet.

How efficient are these things? Are they going to spin my electric meter all winter? The other thing that concerns me is I have heard they will not operate under -20f. It doesn't get that cold often here but it does happen. 

Are their other options I should look at such as a small wall unit? What say the experts?


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## kroppe (May 7, 2000)

You say it's a cottage. Do you really need air conditioning? Will a window unit and ceiling fan get the job done? 

For lower than -20degF you can use electric baseboard heating or a portable electric space heater. Both of those options avoid installation of ductwork. 

Electric radiant ceiling panels are also an option: CP Series - Radiant Ceiling Panels | Marley Engineered Products


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

How old is your furnace?
Is there a more efficient fuel source available today?
Are you living year round in the cottage or just visiting at times?
If you are present when wanting more heat , there's more supplemental options ; than when you are not...
If leaving the cabin for winter or extended potential times between first and last frosts , winterize the addition and close it off.


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## Gillgitter (Nov 5, 2003)

kroppe said:


> You say it's a cottage. Do you really need air conditioning? Will a window unit and ceiling fan get the job done?
> 
> For lower than -20degF you can use electric baseboard heating or a portable electric space heater. Both of those options avoid installation of ductwork.
> 
> Electric radiant ceiling panels are also an option: CP Series - Radiant Ceiling Panels | Marley Engineered Products


I don't need a/c but the wife's eyes lit up at that. I'm not such a fan of electric baseboard heat as everyone I know that has it says its expensive to run. I have thought of electric space heaters for when its to cold for the unit but that can get pricey too.


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## Gillgitter (Nov 5, 2003)

Waif said:


> How old is your furnace?
> Is there a more efficient fuel source available today?
> Are you living year round in the cottage or just visiting at times?
> If you are present when wanting more heat , there's more supplemental options ; than when you are not...
> If leaving the cabin for winter or extended potential times between first and last frosts , winterize the addition and close it off.


I am there pretty much the whole winter. Really not interested in replacing the house furnace at this point, maybe someday further down the road. I was just wondering what any members in the HVAC field thought. 
I have a saying. "You don't know what you don't know". I'd hate to tell my contractor to just go with it and then find out later I could have done something else. I was wondering if something like this would work or would it blow us right out of the room.









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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Gillgitter said:


> I am there pretty much the whole winter. Really not interested in replacing the house furnace at this point, maybe someday further down the road. I was just wondering what any members in the HVAC field thought.
> I have a saying. "You don't know what you don't know". I'd hate to tell my contractor to just go with it and then find out later I could have done something else. I was wondering if something like this would work or would it blow us right out of the room.
> 
> 
> ...


That is the type of heater I was thinking of... a propane wall heater and a fan can heat very well. But I'm no hvac expert at all.

Will add... deer camp is about 20x30 and has no insulation in the attic. None. Just mouse poop lol. Anyway, it is heated to 68-70F in winter with a wall unit (kerosene though).


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Alright. 
I ain't licensed H.V.A.C..
So will leave you with a rough formula to get an idea of what you might need.
*(desired temperature change) x (cubic feet of space) x .133 = BTUs needed per hour. * 
How many BTUs you need to heat your home, shop, garage, and more! (ferrellgas.com)


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## Gillgitter (Nov 5, 2003)

sureshot006 said:


> That is the type of heater I was thinking of... a propane wall heater and a fan can heat very well. But I'm no hvac expert at all.
> 
> Will add... deer camp is about 20x30 and has no insulation in the attic. None. Just mouse poop lol. Anyway, it is heated to 68-70F in winter with a wall unit (kerosene though).


I wonder what the R value of mouse poop is? LOL


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Gillgitter said:


> I wonder what the R value of mouse poop is? LOL


R. Odent?


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Gillgitter said:


> I wonder what the R value of mouse poop is? LOL


You know, I should clarify. It isn't a layer or anything. It is scat-tered.

Dad joke?


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## storman (Mar 12, 2008)

I have a mini split in my deer camp its only 22x24 walls are r 13 and ceiling maybe r 13 mini split cools it down in 30 min and so far my electric bill has barely moved. Will be trying heat soon enough. Have a wood stove but it cooks us out and as such we don't stoke it much before bedtime. Hoping to let fire burn down and keep mini split set at 60.

I will say it is unbelievably quiet when it's running inside and outside.

So far I'm happy price wasn't bad as we did the install ourselves as we have hvac crew in camp.

I think you will be happy if you go that route.


Sent from my SM-G998U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## Gillgitter (Nov 5, 2003)

storman said:


> I have a mini split in my deer camp its only 22x24 walls are r 13 and ceiling maybe r 13 mini split cools it down in 30 min and so far my electric bill has barely moved. Will be trying heat soon enough. Have a wood stove but it cooks us out and as such we don't stoke it much before bedtime. Hoping to let fire burn down and keep mini split set at 60.
> 
> I will say it is unbelievably quiet when it's running inside and outside.
> 
> ...


Any worries about it when its super cold or are you going to rely on the wood stove?


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

They will cool.

But they don’t offer much heat.

My sister has one in her addition in Manistee, and I can assure you heating a reasonable sized addition in Michigan in winter with a mini split is going to run the meter right off the wall.

In your case, since you really are talking about protecting the plumbing,I would go with the wall furnace and buy a ceiling fan for the summer


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## storman (Mar 12, 2008)

Still have wood stove but anything above 20* I have to keep a window or two open. I'll burn wood small fire then let it burn out at night. Can't remember the lower temp limit but its close to or just below zero. Buddys that did the install have them in small additions and have had great success.


Gillgitter said:


> Any worries about it when its super cold or are you going to rely on the wood stove?


Sent from my SM-G998U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## KJC (Mar 26, 2005)

sureshot006 said:


> You know, I should clarify. It isn't a layer or anything. It is scat-tered.
> 
> Dad joke?


Scat-Turd?


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## grapestomper (Jan 9, 2012)

You can put a ptac unit in. They are getting way more efficient these days.
Should work well.


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## BenyDarlee (6 d ago)

I have a small apartment, so I installed a split-system, it doesn’t take up much space and is very compact. I don't know why you have such doubts, but I’m quite satisfied with the system. As soon as the specified temperature is set in a room, the system switches off, so no, it won't twist the electric meter all the time. My conditioner starts automatically if it gets too hot or too cold. Although, now it started making some strange noises, I think to give it to https://musiccityappliance.services/, as it`s the nearest service to me. But I don't know if I should hurry with the repair yet.


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

have you thought about a gas stove(fake woodstove)? Those things kick out the heat, have a blower fan and thermostat controlled. Adds a nice ambiance to the room. I had one in my last house and loved it.


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