# Warm, Cold, Warm



## Brougham (Jan 29, 2010)

I suspect these 3-5 day cycles of 35-40 degree temps encourage small runs of A.S. fish in Feb.. Or does it take mid-March to start these pushes? 
When it drops back to low teens or single digits do they stay or fall back out? Getting anxious. Any insight appreciated.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

I think the crazy wild fluctuations in flow probably bring more fish into the river, than a few days of slightly above freezing weather. But it will take some warmer water to trigger a major run. There should be smallish pushes of fish hitting the river on high-water events. 

It would be helpful if the people who operate the dams, or who program the operation of the dams, could get their stuff together. Every time it gets cold - say below 15* at night, Foote dam shuts way down, so the flow drops well below 1000 cfs. They have all sorts of stupid lame excuses, but the only valid excuse is that, after operating the dam (and numerous others) for many decades, Consumers Energy still has no concept of how to operate the dam in a way that is conducive to the species that live in the river, and which run the river. Zero. Either that, or specific people who control the flow in the lower Ausable are idiots, and just screw with stuff because they can. There is not a more logical explanation for the recent fluctuations in flows.


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## NEangler (Jan 7, 2017)

Fishndude said:


> I think the crazy wild fluctuations in flow probably bring more fish into the river, than a few days of slightly above freezing weather. But it will take some warmer water to trigger a major run. There should be smallish pushes of fish hitting the river on high-water events.
> 
> It would be helpful if the people who operate the dams, or who program the operation of the dams, could get their stuff together. Every time it gets cold - say below 15* at night, Foote dam shuts way down, so the flow drops well below 1000 cfs. They have all sorts of stupid lame excuses, but the only valid excuse is that, after operating the dam (and numerous others) for many decades, Consumers Energy still has no concept of how to operate the dam in a way that is conducive to the species that live in the river, and which run the river. Zero. Either that, or specific people who control the flow in the lower Ausable are idiots, and just screw with stuff because they can. There is not a more logical explanation for the recent fluctuations in flows.


That's Ridiculous. Anybody can make up some bull **** like that. You obviously don't know WTF your talking about. There is not a more logical explanation for the stupid comment you made.


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## bigmac (Nov 28, 2000)

Im with ya Fishndude....Ive had a place in Oscoda since '79 and those fluctuations have been present forever! You would think there would be a class or something to teach the operators when to open the gates and when not to? :coco:


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## jmaddog8807 (Oct 6, 2009)

NEangler said:


> That's Ridiculous. Anybody can make up some bull **** like that. You obviously don't know WTF your talking about. There is not a more logical explanation for the stupid comment you made.


You must be one of the guys that works at the dam


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## PHATZ (Feb 6, 2004)




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## bigmac (Nov 28, 2000)

Exactly.....


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## NEangler (Jan 7, 2017)

bigmac said:


> Exactly.....


Never said the flows don't fluctuate below Foote. What I said was your comments are ridiculous. I understand your frustration. I'm an avid steel header myself. But with that being said, you need to look at the bigger picture.
There is a lot more to this river system than just the stretch below Foote. As a regulated Run of River Hydro it must react to flows as they fluctuate. This is REQUIRED by the FERC. There is obviously large fluctuations during extreme cold temperatures. I'm not going get into a heated debate, but there is a definite problem with ice jamming in the upper stretches of the river during the extreme cold snaps. The best advice I can give you guys to predict flows during those times is to stop focusing on the flows below Foote, and start watch the flows above Alcona. Foote is going to do exactly what Alcona does after allowing for time of water travel. (Witch is about 7 hours)
And FYI Big Mac, back in 1979 Foote was a Peaking Hydro.


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## Mudflap (Feb 16, 2017)

PHATZ said:


> View attachment 244865


River flow is just one concern when operating. Pond levels are the main focus .Some of the operators are avid river fisherman also and most live in the area and manage the water to strict federal guidelines of levels and public safety.


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## Brougham (Jan 29, 2010)

Zero'd last week Thursday. Tried some lower A.S. holes. Spawn, waxies, beads.


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## herb09 (Jan 11, 2009)

NEangler said:


> Never said the flows don't fluctuate below Foote. What I said was your comments are ridiculous. I understand your frustration. I'm an avid steel header myself. But with that being said, you need to look at the bigger picture.
> There is a lot more to this river system than just the stretch below Foote. As a regulated Run of River Hydro it must react to flows as they fluctuate. This is REQUIRED by the FERC. There is obviously large fluctuations during extreme cold temperatures. I'm not going get into a heated debate, but there is a definite problem with ice jamming in the upper stretches of the river during the extreme cold snaps. The best advice I can give you guys to predict flows during those times is to stop focusing on the flows below Foote, and start watch the flows above Alcona. Foote is going to do exactly what Alcona does after allowing for time of water travel. (Witch is about 7 hours)
> And FYI Big Mac, back in 1979 Foote was a Peaking Hydro.


If your an avid steelheader why would you give a damn what happens above Foote. All that needs to happen is not allow the flow below Foote to drop below 1000 CFS during the winter and we wouldn't have a problem.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

NEangler said:


> There is a lot more to this river system than just the stretch below Foote. As a regulated Run of River Hydro it must react to flows as they fluctuate. This is REQUIRED by the FERC. There is obviously large fluctuations during extreme cold temperatures. I'm not going get into a heated debate, but there is a definite problem with ice jamming in the upper stretches of the river during the extreme cold snaps.


Hmmmmm. The Big Manistee river originates in roughly the same place as the Ausable, and is pretty much on the same latitude line. I wonder why that river doesn't have the wild fluctuations that we see on the Ausable during cold spells, every single winter? Did Consumers come up with a solution for Ice Jams on the Big Man, but just haven't implemented it on the Ausable? And why, exactly, does 1 very cold night cause Foote dam to often cut the flow by 30% - 50% in a matter of hours, only to have it bounce back the following day? Please check out the fluctuations posted by Phatz, and explain why that happened, if you can. Unless there is a logical explanation, I stick by my assertion that it defies logic. With all your bluster, and name-calling, you didn't provide a shred of logic, or evidence that would explain this. You just seem butt-hurt by my comments. Who lives on Foote Pond, that would care about water levels above the dam? And, if the pond is frozen across, how would the level fluctuate anyway? I've never seen it break up, and flood in winter. 

For what it is worth, I've spent a lot of time on the upper stretches of the Ausable in winter. The upper river never freezes over - ever. Shelf ice develops, but the river never comes close to freezing over, because it is heavily spring-fed. I have waded, and canoed the Holy Water in every month of the year. It is a beautiful place in January, and February.


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