# Proposal to Change Fall Turkey Season Opener



## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

The proposal before the NRC recommends moving the fall turkey opener to September 15th, and putting all southern MI private lands into one unit, unit YY. 

This proposal will most likely be voted on by the NRC at their May meeting.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/8-10_Fall_Wild_Turkey_Sason_Dates_Info_314841_7.pdf


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

:rant::rant::rant: What about tradition?!?!?!?!?:rant::rant::rant:


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## det07 (Mar 26, 2006)

Sounds good to me! I can hunt turkeys and doe's at the same time! (EAS)


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

Idiotic in northern Michigan to even suggest such a thing. At that time of year, even if it's just two weeks sooner, we still have a lot of YOUNG poults up here that will die if they don't have their mother hen with them and have not joined with other groups of poults and hens. Everything depends on the weather-you get a cold, rainy summer like last year, or cold, rainy spring, like last year, and you get a late hatch. Late hatches means little poults, even when the fall hunt doesn't start till October, and the reason why many of us don't even bother to try hunting for them till they grow a bit more. 

It's all an effort to increase interest in the season, which they're not going to. People have learned that unless you ambush them it's tough to call toms in the fall, and if they can't a tom, they don't want to hunt at all. There's no glory in taking a hen or a poult, even though it's SUPPOSED to be a management hunt. 

But then, it's usually too hot in September for a lot of people to even be out. So maybe it won't be a problem. 

Still, idiotic. All an effort to sell more licenses.


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

I'm not certain if I have this right, but it appears to me that the proposal states that after the drawing has taken place, and after the one week period where a person can buy a tag over the counter, that a hunter will then be able to buy one tag per day until the quota is met. Am I correct in understanding that an individual hunter will be able to buy one tag per day from that point forward? If so, that doesn't make sense to me.

I agree with Linda's assessment that an early opener won't make much of an impact on hunter interest, but I certainly wouldn't have any objection to it in my neck of the woods. I also like the idea of combining SLP private land into one unit.


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## OMhunter (Jul 5, 2006)

November Sunrise said:


> I'm not certain if I have this right, but it appears to me that the proposal states that after the drawing has taken place, and after the one week period where a person can buy a tag over the counter, that a hunter will then be able to buy one tag per day until the quota is met. Am I correct in understanding that an individual hunter will be able to buy one tag per day from that point forward? If so, that doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> From the NRC-- After the lottery
> drawing, if licenses are still available, unsuccessful applicants may purchase one remaining
> ...


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## DEDGOOSE (Jan 19, 2007)

Linda G. said:


> People have learned that unless you ambush them it's tough to call toms in the fall, and if they can't a tom, they don't want to hunt at all.


Wow lot of truth there, you give me a guy who can consistently call in and kill fall gobblers.. They will decimate love lorn gobblers in the spring..


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## hoyt001 (Mar 8, 2006)

They'll probably pass it, the MUCC will pass anything that will screw archery hunters from having the woods to themselves and or that will let something be hunted with guns before or during the :sad:archery season!


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## OMhunter (Jul 5, 2006)

DEDGOOSE said:


> Wow lot of truth there, you give me a guy who can consistently call in and kill fall gobblers.. They will decimate love lorn gobblers in the spring..


 
I agree, but multiple kill tags for fall season???? In the fall season it doesn't make any sense. Especially if they are either sex tags...unless I missed that these possible tags are male only, which I don't think is so, unless I missed the verbage...I could be wrong.


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## hoyt001 (Mar 8, 2006)

I meant the nrc,not the mucc!


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## det07 (Mar 26, 2006)

Linda G. said:


> Idiotic in northern Michigan to even suggest such a thing. At that time of year, even if it's just two weeks sooner, we still have a lot of YOUNG poults up here that will die if they don't have their mother hen with them and have not joined with other groups of poults and hens. Everything depends on the weather-you get a cold, rainy summer like last year, or cold, rainy spring, like last year, and you get a late hatch. Late hatches means little poults, even when the fall hunt doesn't start till October, and the reason why many of us don't even bother to try hunting for them till they grow a bit more.
> 
> It's all an effort to increase interest in the season, which they're not going to. People have learned that unless you ambush them it's tough to call toms in the fall, and if they can't a tom, they don't want to hunt at all. There's no glory in taking a hen or a poult, even though it's SUPPOSED to be a management hunt.
> 
> ...


Who are "they" that you refer to?

It is not too hot in September to hunt! That is a lame excuse that old, fat and lazy people use any time an early season is proposed. (such as the early antlerless deer season). Just because you don't want to hunt in September doesn't mean you should push the same regulations on the other hunters who would take advantage of the early season. If someone offered you an elk hunt in September I bet you would put up with the heat to harvest an elk. 

I took a hen this past fall with my bow and let me tell you that any turkey with a bow is a trophy. I crawled/stalked the flock and drew without being detected and with a flock of 20+ sets of eyes watching for danger that is not an easy thing to do. Hens are just as wary and difficult to hunt as the toms.


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## DRHUNTER (Sep 15, 2002)

Linda G. said:


> Idiotic in northern Michigan to even suggest such a thing. At that time of year, even if it's just two weeks sooner, we still have a lot of YOUNG poults up here that will die if they don't have their mother hen with them and have not joined with other groups of poults and hens. Everything depends on the weather-you get a cold, rainy summer like last year, or cold, rainy spring, like last year, and you get a late hatch. Late hatches means little poults, even when the fall hunt doesn't start till October, and the reason why many of us don't even bother to try hunting for them till they grow a bit more.
> 
> It's all an effort to increase interest in the season, which they're not going to. People have learned that unless you ambush them it's tough to call toms in the fall, and if they can't a tom, they don't want to hunt at all. There's no glory in taking a hen or a poult, even though it's SUPPOSED to be a management hunt.
> 
> ...


I agree Linda, but they have to have something thats easy for the coyotes and now wolves to catch and eat up there. Afterall they have destroyed the deer population so there is a shortage of fawns for these critters to eat. LOL From what I have seen this year there are not many turkeys that survived the 2008/09 winter in that area as it is. These decisions just continue to amaze me...


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## Michihunter (Jan 8, 2003)

The most recent data I can find regarding Fall Turkey stats is 2004. Does anyone have anything more recent?


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

> det07 said:
> 
> 
> > I took a hen this past fall with my bow and let me tell you that any turkey with a bow is a trophy.


Careful there det07 turkey and bows don't mix well with Linda.:evilsmile:lol::lol:


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## Mitchell Ulrich (Sep 10, 2007)

Bird a day!!....Oh, thats going to leave a mark....


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## anon21511 (Jan 13, 2006)

How is one tag per day per person any different than all of the tags being sold because there were more than enough people that applied for the lottery? Either way, there will be certain quota for tags, there is no guarantee that just because a tag is sold it will be filled. The rest you can all fight about amongst yourselves.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

and found out that no fall turkey season is planned for Area J at all this year. We really shouldn't have had one last fall, as we did take quite a hit from the winter of 2008/2009 as someone mentioned. 

If that's true, then I hope that everyone in southern Michigan has a good fall season, maybe I'll come down there and try it...maybe not...

det...Detroit, right? I'm not surprised...and I wasn't referring to myself thinking it was too hot to hunt, I hunt birds from September 15 on...not turkeys...grouse. But I know a lot of people who just don't want to hunt in 75 degree heat, and I can't blame them at all.


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## DEDGOOSE (Jan 19, 2007)

det07 said:


> Who are "they" that you refer to?
> 
> 
> 
> I took a hen this past fall with my bow and let me tell you that any turkey with a bow is a trophy. I crawled/stalked the flock and drew without being detected and with a flock of 20+ sets of eyes watching for danger that is not an easy thing to do. Hens are just as wary and difficult to hunt as the toms.


I applaud you doing so without the use of a blind.. That is an accomplishment. 

But what Linda is referring to is entirely correct.. Splitting up and calling flocks of mature gobblers is much more difficult than splitting up and calling mixed flocks of hens and poults.. Calling fall gobblers is probably the most difficult task from a calling stand point that our sport has to offer.. 

Crawling/bushwhacking birds has more to do with terrain and flock size than what it has do with sex..


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## Mitchell Ulrich (Sep 10, 2007)

Birdhuntr1 said:


> How is one tag per day per person any different than all of the tags being sold because there were more than enough people that applied for the lottery? Either way, there will be certain quota for tags, there is no guarantee that just because a tag is sold it will be filled. The rest you can all fight about amongst yourselves.


 
Because just _one_ guy, with little to no ethic's, can wipe out the entire flock in that area!


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## DEDGOOSE (Jan 19, 2007)

Mitchell Ulrich said:


> Because just _one_ guy, with little to no ethic's, can wipe out the entire flock in that area!


Please explain ethics as it pertains to this


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## det07 (Mar 26, 2006)

Linda G. said:


> and found out that no fall turkey season is planned for Area J at all this year. We really shouldn't have had one last fall, as we did take quite a hit from the winter of 2008/2009 as someone mentioned.
> 
> If that's true, then I hope that everyone in southern Michigan has a good fall season, maybe I'll come down there and try it...maybe not...
> 
> det...Detroit, right? I'm not surprised...and I wasn't referring to myself thinking it was too hot to hunt, I hunt birds from September 15 on...not turkeys...grouse. But I know a lot of people who just don't want to hunt in 75 degree heat, and I can't blame them at all.


WRONG! What an insult! I didn't attack you personally so was that really necessary. The turkey popluation is a little different in the thumb than it is in the NLP. I am not a turkey expert like yourself just someone who likes to persue turkeys (male or female) in the fall when the deer hunting is slow. If you don't like the extended season than stay home but don't ruin it for those that will take advantage of it. If it were up to the farmers in the thumb there wouldn't be any turkeys at all.


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## det07 (Mar 26, 2006)

QDMAMAN said:


> Careful there det07 turkey and bows don't mix well with Linda.:evilsmile:lol::lol:


Is she working for peta or something?


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## det07 (Mar 26, 2006)

DEDGOOSE said:


> I applaud you doing so without the use of a blind.. That is an accomplishment.
> 
> But what Linda is referring to is entirely correct.. Splitting up and calling flocks of mature gobblers is much more difficult than splitting up and calling mixed flocks of hens and poults.. Calling fall gobblers is probably the most difficult task from a calling stand point that our sport has to offer..
> 
> Crawling/bushwhacking birds has more to do with terrain and flock size than what it has do with sex..


All I am trying to point out is that there are responsible hunters out there who would like a few extra weeks to try to fill their tag. I didn't really look at the rest of the proposed changes. I have a hard enough time filling one tag. Turkey hunting in the fall is challenging and that is why the season should be extended!!! If we can get a few extra days in the field in Sept than I am all for it.


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## Mitchell Ulrich (Sep 10, 2007)

DEDGOOSE said:


> Please explain ethics as it pertains to this


I hunt a particular track land. There is a flock of about 10 or so birds that use it Spring and Fall. 

I've hunted this area for about the last 7 or 8 years and know the birds travel routes and feeding habits.

If I really wanted to, I could kill a bird a day or a bird every two days. It wouldn't take long before the flock would no longer exist.

I still think a bird a day is a bad idea.


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## DEDGOOSE (Jan 19, 2007)

Mitchell Ulrich said:


> I hunt a particular track land. There is a flock of about 10 or so birds that use it Spring and Fall.
> 
> I've hunted this area for about the last 7 or 8 years and know the birds travel routes and feeding habits.
> 
> ...


Gotcha


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## steel4chips (Apr 3, 2006)

2008 processed hunter survey data:

michigan.gov/documents/dnr/report3500_285887_7.pdf

survey data for other years can be found by the search phrase:

michigan fall turkey hunting 200x


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## Captain (Feb 11, 2000)

Awesome.....I can't stand the Monday after opening weekend of Bow as the opener. EAS and Turkey - sounds like a great September weekend hunt to me..


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## Michihunter (Jan 8, 2003)

steel4chips said:


> 2008 processed hunter survey data:
> 
> michigan.gov/documents/dnr/report3500_285887_7.pdf
> 
> ...


Thank you much.


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## ridgewalker (Jun 24, 2008)

I don't understand the closing of mid NE lower. We had a flock of 60 or more birds all fall last year.


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## melvvin (Nov 21, 2007)

Mitchell Ulrich said:


> I hunt a particular track land. There is a flock of about 10 or so birds that use it Spring and Fall.
> 
> I've hunted this area for about the last 7 or 8 years and know the birds travel routes and feeding habits.
> 
> ...


 bingo we got a winner.


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## Molson (Apr 18, 2003)

ridgewalker said:


> I don't understand the closing of mid NE lower. We had a flock of 60 or more birds all fall last year.


the overall population in the NE lower is not very strong.

one flock doesn't necessarily reflect the geographic population.


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## DGF (Nov 23, 2000)

QDMAMAN said:


> Careful there det07 turkey and bows don't mix well with Linda.:evilsmile:lol::lol:


Ahhhh yes. I remember that discussion.


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

WAIT A MINUTE I MISSED SOMETHING!! What is the problem with hunting turkeys with bows? I've been doing it with nothing but for years.:rant:


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

> brushbuster said:
> 
> 
> > WAIT A MINUTE I MISSED SOMETHING!! What is the problem with hunting turkeys with bows? I've been doing it with nothing but for years.:rant:


Ask Linda G.


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

ridgewalker said:


> I don't understand the closing of mid NE lower. We had a flock of 60 or more birds all fall last year.


I dont get it either
I cant hunt fall turkeys in Kalkaska where I see lots of them everyday... But I can get a fall permit to hunt Calhoun county where I see trukeys a couple times a year


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## EdB (Feb 28, 2002)

> I don't understand the closing of mid NE lower. We had a flock of 60 or more birds all fall last year.
> 
> I dont get it either
> I cant hunt fall turkeys in Kalkaska where I see lots of them everyday... But I can get a fall permit to hunt Calhoun county where I see trukeys a couple times a year


The overall population has been down in recent years in the north. That's why the DNR is not allowing fall hunts in some places up north. I understand that's a bummer if you're seeing a concentration of birds. The fall hunt is intended to reduce the population. That's why they let you shoot hens. Even though you have some nice flocks on your property, it's not the norm across most of the northland. There is a lot of room for flocks to grow in a lot of habitat up north. It's different near ag lands and there are a lot more birds down south. Not sure where you hunt in Calhoun county but there are some huge flocks there across the entire county. 

If there was a time for multiple tags, it should be the fall and not the spring. But it should be for places with an over population of birds. I don't understand putting all the southern part of the state into one big zone. The intent should be to take out hens where needed and the DNR encourages that. With the exploding flocks of some area's in Southern MI, they are causing damage and complaints from farmers. Like with deer, a lot of fall turkey hunters target gobblers and don't want to shoot hens or jennies in the fall. In some places down here where the flocks are getting a bit to big, that creates a dilema with lowering the population. Those jennies are the finest eating wild turkey you can get 

Starting early is not a good idea. There can be some real little ones still around in Mid Sept. from late hatches, even in Southern Mi. They will grow a lot in a couple more weeks till Oct. On top of that, there is the small game opener, EAS and youth hunts all going on then to conflict with. If you are serious about turkey hunting, you could take out a lot of turkeys with the current long fall season we have.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

Hi Ed-nice to hear from you!

As for your comment..."I don't understand putting all the southern part of the state into one big zone."

That's just one more move towards an open, over the counter season in southern Michigan, possibly the entire state, but there is a disparate difference between southern and northern Michigan, so they could just be melding southern Michigan for an easier, less confusing season that anyone can understand. It's simple enough now for most people, but apparently there's a whole lot of people out there who can't figure out the regs. Go back, read some of the history of the regs as they have progressed over the years, and you'll see this is part of a big plan they've had for a long time...they just do it a little bit at a time so as to not further confuse people, and to avoid ruffling the feathers of people like you who still understand the value of a quality hunt.


Hope you whack a big one this spring and don't have to deal with too many morons out there. Stay in touch.


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## DEDGOOSE (Jan 19, 2007)

Linda G. said:


> Hi Ed-nice to hear from you!
> 
> As for your comment..."I don't understand putting all the southern part of the state into one big zone."
> 
> ...


Uhhh Ohhh I believe I posted about the same thing a year ago and got hammered:lol:

I dread the day of over the counter, open season


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## Jim Maturen (Jan 23, 2005)

Before the DNR discontinued winter population surveys the Pere Marquette Chapter of MWTHA in cooperation with the DNR tracked the population upward to a population of 23,000 over spring AreaK which includes Kalkaska County. After a series of cold wet springs, severe winters, natural mortailty our turkey numbers fell to 16,000 for a loss of 7,000 over the 7000square mile area. They have not recovered, in fact from all of the information we can acuire it has fell even lower. The turkey numbers throughout the northern lower peninsula have fallen considerably.
MWTHA is opposed to a September 15 opener. The further north that you go the later the spring hatching occurrs. No matter where in this state there are many poults that are grouse size by the middle of September. When a hunter locates a small of flock of 6 or 7 half grown turkeys and one large one, guess which one gets blown away? What then are the odds that those poults will survive without the hen? Another 3 weeks of growth will give them a better chance to survive on their own.
Who are these people who are managing our wildlife?


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

Hope the Rendezvous went well, would be nice to see you sometime if I could ever get out of here...I can't...


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## Jim Maturen (Jan 23, 2005)

Hi Linda

The Rendezvus went as smooth as silk. Had great attendance. Very successful once again. Looking forward to the 30th Rendezvous. Have some interesting projects that you will be hearing about.


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## thongg (Jul 10, 2007)

spoke wih the farmer who we hunt on his land about the possable fall hunt he is thrilled that we will be able to kill more than 1 bird he farms 10000 acres and we hunt on about 2 sq miles we saw over 250 birds in that area last spring this year we counted over 120 birds in 1 field last week most guys will shoot 2 to 3 birds in our group since it will still cost 15.00 per bird we are looking forward to that also i shot a hen last year with a CROSSBOW lol good luck this spring


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