# Killin Time Part 2 - update on the Mighty Mo



## tannhd (Dec 3, 2010)

No new laws. 

Just more enforcement of the existing ones please. 

New laws limit freedoms. Anyone that knows me knows that I am 100% against limiting freedoms as long as those freedoms dont infringe on others' freedoms.


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

limpinglogan said:


> I don't think it is specifically that they are drunk...it is the rest of the actions going on.
> 
> 1. Littering
> 2. Shouting obscenities at the top of their lungs...in front of strangers and children
> ...


And that's just the spring steelhead run.


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## StonedFly (Feb 24, 2012)

Everybody is always bitchin about something and no matter what laws get enforced or changed you will still find something to bitch about. People are idiots. Whether fisherman or recreational floater. This thread is so entertaining tho! Keep fightin that good fight dudes. We wouldnt be american if we werent complaining on the interweb..

Sent from my MB855 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

I can understand the landowners getting tired of the tubers, but the Mo is not the head waters of the AuSable and never will be. Can't force the water temperature that low.


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## STEELHEAD JUNKIE (Feb 20, 2010)

Good Point Steve!


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## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

Thats correct Steve, even if the dams were operating as a bottom draw dam, the water still would not be cold enough. I'm not sure how deep these particular reservoirs are above Croton Dam, but I would suspect they aren't deep enough to have significantly colder water. It takes a pretty deep pool of water to gain much.


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## RobW (Dec 6, 2012)

Why does this thread remind me of Matt Supinski?


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## itchn2fish (Dec 15, 2005)

RobW said:


> Why does this thread remind me of Matt Supinski?


:lol:


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

Several of consumers dams have bubblers designed to bring cold water up from the bottom of the reservoir to lower downstream temps. I don't know which dams but my son did the electrical work for several.


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## limpinglogan (Sep 23, 2009)

> All of which have current laws to allow LEO's to stop it, hence my point, pushing for new laws is a waste, especially if the current ones aren't being enforced to begin with...


good point


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## ericzerka24 (Aug 12, 2010)

limpinglogan said:


> I don't think it is specifically that they are drunk...it is the rest of the actions going on.
> 
> 1. Littering
> 2. Shouting obscenities at the top of their lungs...in front of strangers and children
> ...


That list pretty much sums up steelhead fishing in the spring and salmon fishing in the fall as well.


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## Tron322 (Oct 29, 2011)

You all have a losing battle ahead of you, I have tubed, canoed, and rafted thru wisnors, every time someone was totally sloshed by newaygo. And then they kept spending money in the shops and food, I personally think croton and newaygo make more money from these people unwinding than fisherman and families. And we all know there are communities just a little north that would love seeing these restrictions, I just think especially newaygo will fight this knowing bussiness and tax base could possibly go away.

Personally I do better fishing with the people letting go for the weekend, families with kids nowadays even question why I am fishing and hurting fish. I have heard "what if I put a hook in you before". The partiers just offer me beers and hilarious stories.


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## Steelee (Aug 26, 2003)

Thanks all. Good discussion. Tron, this is about economics in Croton and Newaygo as I see it too. Wisners is killing the river. I am not Supinski and have no economic stake in this. I just would like to see the river more as God intended it to be - which was also cold water before man improved it with dams like Hardy and Croton.

I have no desire to change or fix Hardy or Croton Pond. Nothing wrong with them in my eyes. But below Croton Dam, I would like to see a study of impact of some groundwater in the form of wells to modify the thermal pollution of dams upstream. Maybe we could get the impact of bottom draw dams for a fair number of miles downstream by using the aquifer. Nestle uses the aquifer to make money. Consumers could do the same thing and live up to their agreement. And the aquifer water would flow to Lake Michigan and too good use there.

But a DNR Study would be needed on this topic. I am a person that is not a scientist, I do not guide, my last name is not Wisner. I am retired and I can fish any time I choose. It is a place I dearly love just as it is. But as an ex- boy scout, I would like to leave the place better than I found it.


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## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

Steelee said:


> Thanks all. Good discussion. Tron, this is about economics in Croton and Newaygo as I see it too. Wisners is killing the river. I am not Supinski and have no economic stake in this. I just would like to see the river more as God intended it to be - which was also cold water before man improved it with dams like Hardy and Croton.
> 
> I have no desire to change or fix Hardy or Croton Pond. Nothing wrong with them in my eyes. But below Croton Dam, I would like to see a study of impact of some groundwater in the form of wells to modify the thermal pollution of dams upstream. Maybe we could get the impact of bottom draw dams for a fair number of miles downstream by using the aquifer. Nestle uses the aquifer to make money. Consumers could do the same thing and live up to their agreement. And the aquifer water would flow to Lake Michigan and too good use there.
> 
> But a DNR Study would be needed on this topic. I am a person that is not a scientist, I do not guide, my last name is not Wisner. I am retired and I can fish any time I choose. It is a place I dearly love just as it is. But as an ex- boy scout, I would like to leave the place better than I found it.


Are there records available for average temps of the Mo, prior to the dams being built?

I highly doubt the Mo stayed under 68 degrees in the Summer, even before the dams.

To pump ground water to add it to the Mo to lower the temps so non-native species can flourish is ignorant at best.

Just because Nestle does it, doesn't mean it's a good thing...


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## mondrella (Dec 27, 2001)

Steelee said:


> Thanks all. Good discussion. Tron, this is about economics in Croton and Newaygo as I see it too. Wisners is killing the river. I am not Supinski and have no economic stake in this. I just would like to see the river more as God intended it to be - which was also cold water before man improved it with dams like Hardy and Croton.
> 
> I have no desire to change or fix Hardy or Croton Pond. Nothing wrong with them in my eyes. But below Croton Dam, I would like to see a study of impact of some groundwater in the form of wells to modify the thermal pollution of dams upstream. Maybe we could get the impact of bottom draw dams for a fair number of miles downstream by using the aquifer. Nestle uses the aquifer to make money. Consumers could do the same thing and live up to their agreement. And the aquifer water would flow to Lake Michigan and too good use there.
> 
> But a DNR Study would be needed on this topic. I am a person that is not a scientist, I do not guide, my last name is not Wisner. I am retired and I can fish any time I choose. It is a place I dearly love just as it is. But as an ex- boy scout, I would like to leave the place better than I found it.


 OK I have to ask why you would want to waste money on such a study? The Mo is my home river I cut my teeth on her trout. To me it is dumb to even consider when all the water entering the ponds in the summer is in the 70+ category already. The river before logging was a much different system. It has widen and shallowed to the point it warms to much. The money to study to create your little utopia would be better spent on habitat improvements on one of the tribs that has a natural trout population to make them better. It sounds to me you bought a place on a river expecting a world class trout fishery. Now reality has set in and it is not. It is a world class multi species fishery that in my opinion is about as perfect as one can get.


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

But you guys know that something needs to be done before we see an incident like this:
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2013/07/24/meramec-river-murder/

If the concerned landowners can convince the local law enforcement to provide some periodic enforcement on the weekends for littering, trespassing, altercations, I think it would go a long way before the situation gets out of hand like this. 

People should be able to enjoy the resource, but not abuse it.


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## steelton (Jan 29, 2012)

Croton Pond had a bubbler installed in the last few years, but it only runs part of the time. If they ran the bubblers non stop, It was determined that they would remove all the cold water from the pond, which we can all agree is just as poor an outcome as any. I know it's only short lived, but the temps this summer have been awesome due to a cold few weeks. I spend nearly every weekend on the banks of the Mo just below new bridge at the inlaws property and I never hesitate to sternly ask tuber to pick trash from around them or to keep the fowl mouths shut. The littering problem will not stop even if they start ticketing people for it, it's a cultural problem that need to be addressed at the source. Raise em right and expect good things.


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## Jones (Mar 5, 2010)

Steelee said:


> Sad, but it took the death of a family man at boobs & tubes to wake folks up. The Mighty Mo is the creation of a Higher Power. A river of beauty. Locals to Newaygo have had enough of the sacriledge of abuse of this river on weekends by drunken tubers. We have overcome the economic powers in Newaygo who thrive catering to these abusers.
> 
> Local meetings have begun with landowners and concerned citizens. WE ARE GOING TO TAKE BACK THIS RIVER. Enough is enough. Think breatholizers for all tubers at access points around Newaygo. Sober tubers and families-welcome back.
> 
> ...


Just stop. If landowners and "concerned citizens" don't like the general public enjoying the public waterway, pack your bags and move...it's really that easy. It's not your river to take back. If you can only appreciate the Muskegon landscape sans the general public, then you have none of my sympathy.


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## wartfroggy (Jan 25, 2007)

Steelee said:


> There are rules for drinking and operating a boat, or canoe/kayak on the Mo. Why not tubers as operators of a watercraft? That is a question we landowners are asking.


 Are dead drunkards washing up on your beaches impacting your property value? I mean, I understand that it is unfortunate that someone died, but how does that impact YOU? As Boozer said, while there might be other issues such as drugs, littering, etc that come along with the drinking, there are already laws against that. What specifically is so wring with someone floating in a tube and having a few beers? Do you fear that they will cross the center line of the river, float into someone head on with their rubber death raft, and kill them? Is this going to lead to a "zero tolerance" type of a deal next? Maybe alcohol should be abolished all together?


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## hogmansp (Dec 17, 2011)

Had a day off and wanted to do a little fishing. I knew that this weekend would be busy but seeing the beer cans and trash floating, the language that was screamed out in front of everyone, the pure disrespect for the land owners I have to admit was a little much. Needless to say the half dozen CO's needed to monitor the launches instead of other things. I watched a group climbing up and down and riding canoes down the slops of private property. There was an older couple watching there property literally be crapped on and there was little that they could do but film it. I do believe everyone has the right to use the waterways but the behavior of a few people could bring problems to all! I think if a group of tubers has to check in 24 beer cans at the launch they should show up at the out with 24 cans or pay a littering fine. I say the tubers just because they are beng sent out as paying customers by the renters of the tubes and should be pretty easy to monitor.


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