# Are ATV Trails Groomed? How about Gladwin?



## skidooosl

Hello,

Just got back from my first real ride on my new Suzuki... Decided to try something new today and actually try a ride on the Gladwin ORV trail system since I live pretty close.... That trail was BEAT!!! I assume its still early in the year so no maintenance has been done but do these trails get groomed on a regular basis like snowmobile trails? That trail had some massive moguls on it... we hopped off after a short ride south from the trail head and went back to the forest 2 tracks... 

I have always been used to Snowmobile trails that get groomed several times / week but maybe this is not the case with ORV trails. Are some trails in Michigan kept smoother than others? We really wanted to go ride some ORV trails this year.


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## storman

Dont know about gladwin but they do over in baldwin area.

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## skulldugary

If they do they had better get at it in Ogemaw Co...There are so many trees down across the trails around here it aint funny..


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## Buddwiser

ATV trails don't get groomed in the sense that snowmobile trails do. The ATV club I belong too has a couple of trail designated by the DNR for maintenance which amounts to removing downed trees from the trail but the "moguls" do not get touched. Unfortuneatly, many of the trails, for what ever reason don't get even this basic care. The DNR claims there isn't the money available to maintain them properly, hence the proposed increase of ATV permists from 15 bucks to 45. I have no problem paying the increase provided the money goes where its supposed to (the trails) and not some politicians pet project or the general budget. If you were riding 2 tracks, chances are you were not on designated trails and subject to a fine if caught. Unless the trail has signs stating what type of machine can utilize it, its not a designated trail. I'm not preaching to you, but just putting this out for your information.


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## skidooosl

A trail has to be posted to ride on? I was under the impression all roads were now open unless posted otherwise on the township / county map I picked up and obviously private land. I was just following tracks and seeing were various roads and trails head to... If a trail says no tresspassing or keep out I will respect that.


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## Buddwiser

All snowmobile and atv/orv trails will have signage on them. The DNR's web site has the trails on it and there are map books available along with a web site that sells gps cards with them.


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## bth

I am with u Buddwiser. I dont mind the hike in the tag if the money goes to improving the trails and expanding them. I didnt know that either skidooosl about the trails had to be marked. The few sings I have seen in Roscommon Co. you have to get out and look close at because barely read them do to damage.


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## hitechman

All State Game Area Trails, State Forest Trails and National Forest trails are CLOSED to ORV/ATV traffic unless posted ("designated" is the key word here) open by signage.

http://www.offroad-ed.com/mi/handbook/land_use_state.htm

http://www.offroad-ed.com/mi/handbook/land_use_national.htm

Steve


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## bowhunter426

The moguls will never go away. To many concerns about erosion from trying to groom them out. A permit hike will not help you guys on ATV's. The money will go to expanding the motorcycle single track trails and maintaining them. After years of riding progressively worse trails in Baldwin, I parked the ATV and bought a dual sport. It opened up my riding opportunities 10 fold. 

Some counties are allowing ORV traffic up to 25 mph on the far ride side of the road.


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## MossyHorns

The Little Manistee ORV Route and the Lincoln Hills ORV Route are groomed using the same tractor and type of groomer they use for the snowmobile trails. They don't get groomed as often as a snowmobile trail, but they do keep the big moguls down. 

A lot of the counties and townships up north allow ORV's on county roads, but you cannot ride on any forest road (2 track) unless it's posted open.


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## skidooosl

How do you determine the difference between a two track and a back country road? If it is on a map would it be legal to ride on? Most will show road names on the GPS as well. Quite a few of the two track road appear to be actual roads on Michigan maps and are great to ride on!

I hope to go ride up in the Indian River / Wolverine area soon this summer.... there are no "ATV" trails up there but plenty of back roads... How would I determine what I can ride on and what I cant? I know there are plenty of ATV's up in the area... this is also where the Fall color tour took place last year which I hope to be able to be in this year.


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## hitechman

skidooosl said:


> How do you determine the difference between a two track and a back country road? If it is on a map would it be legal to ride on? Most will show road names on the GPS as well. Quite a few of the two track road appear to be actual roads on Michigan maps and are great to ride on!
> 
> I hope to go ride up in the Indian River / Wolverine area soon this summer.... there are no "ATV" trails up there but plenty of back roads... How would I determine what I can ride on and what I cant? I know there are plenty of ATV's up in the area... this is also where the Fall color tour took place last year which I hope to be able to be in this year.


Get a copy of the county ORV Ordinance and/or a map showing open roads in the county.......call the county clerk. Every open county has them, and it may require a few phone calls and a bit of effort on your part.....BUT, in the end, it is YOUR responsibility to make sure a road/trail is open.

All of the National Forest Offices have a map of what federal trails are open. Remember, if is state or federal land, you have to assume it is closed unless posted open unless it is a county road. 

Most open to ORV road use counties are actively enforcing ORV Rules and you can be fined up to $500/violation.

A quick search on google ("Cheboygan County Michigan ORV") gave me this for Cheboygan County: http://www.us23heritageroute.org/media/assets/media/orv_trail_mapfinal_823_print_layout.pdf

Looks like the information you wanted, and quite extensive.

Steve


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## skidooosl

I was able to find a map of Charlovix county last spring showing what roads are open and what are closed... I guess the question is what is a country road and what is not... We always snowmobile in the Chandler Hill area but much of that is on state land on roads that Do show on maps with road names... but are pretty much two tracks.... I just want to make sure I do not ride where I should not. They really make this complicated... not like snowmobiles! wow...


Any ideas? 


Thanks


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## hitechman

skidooosl said:


> I was able to find a map of Charlovix county last spring showing what roads are open and what are closed............I just want to make sure I do not ride where I should not. They really make this complicated... not like snowmobiles! wow...
> Any ideas?
> Thanks


You have to assume it is closed to ATV's if it is not shown as open on the county map (or posted open by signage on the road/trail).

Lots of state and federal forest trails are open to snowmobiles (completely different law because they are not considered ORV's by state law), but not to ATV traffic. There is no erosion when these roads/trails are covered in snow, and that is the main difference.

Steve


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## MossyHorns

Do not ride on forest service roads. They will have a brown fiberglass marker with white numbers on it at the beginning of the two track. You really need to get a county specific ORV map like *hitechman* said and you should get a new one every year. They are always adding or deleting which roads are open.


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## Buddwiser

MossyHorns said:


> The Little Manistee ORV Route and the Lincoln Hills ORV Route are groomed using the same tractor and type of groomer they use for the snowmobile trails......


Those are routes as you mentioned, but not ATV trails which are a 
maximum 50 inches wide although there is a bill to widen everything to 60 inches.




skidooosl said:


> I hope to go ride up in the Indian River / Wolverine area soon this summer.... there are no "ATV" trails up there but plenty of back roads...


1st.....check with the county that you want to ride in. Many of them have now opened up most of their roads to ATVs with limitations. 
2nd....Woverine is in Cheboygan county which has 6 trails/routes you can ride on. Our ATV club maintains the Red Bridge trail and will be up there some time in May to do a maintanence on it. Check out the DNR's web site if you haven't done so.


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## braindead1684

The General rule of thumb we go by is if it has a name it is open unless posted closed, if it has a number it is a forest service road and is closed.

There are several exceptions such as postings.


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## Rzr

Buddwiser said:


> "...*The ATV club I belong too has a couple of trail designated by the DNR for maintenance which amounts to removing downed trees from the trail* *but the "moguls" do not get touched. Unfortuneatly, many of the trails, for what ever reason don't get even this basic care.* *The DNR claims there isn't the money available to maintain them properly, hence the proposed increase of ATV permists from 15 bucks to 45. I have no problem paying the increase* *provided the money goes where its supposed to (the trails)* *and not some politicians pet project or the general budget*..."





bowhunter426 said:


> *The moguls will never go away. To many concerns about erosion from trying to groom them out. A permit hike will not help you guys on ATV's. The money will go to expanding the motorcycle single track trails and maintaining them. After years of riding progressively worse trails in Baldwin, I parked the ATV and bought a dual sport. It opened up my riding opportunities 10 fold..."*





Buddwiser said:


> Those are routes as you mentioned, but not ATV trails which are a
> maximum 50 inches wide *although there is a bill to widen everything to 60 inches.."*


Can somebody please point me to this bill or overall effort as the views expressed here seem to be in 100% conflict with each other in terms of where the community is heading and what can be done to enhance the overall multi-use trail experience.

Thanks.


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## Buddwiser

I was given to believe that it was a bill already in works but my information was wrong. Doing some goggleing, I found that there is a law office called Scofes&Associates that is representing Polaris Industries that wants Michigan and other states whose trails are not 65 inches wide to widen them to that distance in order for their products wider than 50 inches to have access. Apparently, they (Polaris) want the states to pay for it which, seeing as how the DNR claims they're broke, won't happen.


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## Rzr

The widening proposal that I'm familiar with was several years ago which Polaris initiated and which was introduced by a Michigan politician. I think the whole thing lasted 29 hours after the CCC and AMA got wind of it. Great example for our kids as to how any and all constructive discussion surrounding access can be completely squashed in the blink of an eye when these issues 'dare' to be brought forward. A lot of untrue statements were made that were never rebuked as nobody felt that were obliged too when the bill was hurriedly withdrawn sans representative commentary. 

I still think it is interesting how you describe maintaining your own system and the moguls we all deal with as compared to the guy who basically feels that there isn't a chance in heck that you'll ever see the money that you need. If somebody can tell me of a fee in Michigan or anywhere else that has tripled with absolutely no oversight (see Michigan's long corrupt ORV advisory board) or overall plan in hand that wasn't crafted behind closed doors with hand-picked (cough) 'leaders'...I'd like to hear about it.

I have yet to witness a bigger joke than the Michigan orv system and those who manage it at the state and non-profit level...period.


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