# bogus claim bear are a major predator



## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

There have been some bogus reports floating around Michigan claiming black bear are a significant predator on white tail fawns. Based on 42 gps collared bear monitored by the University of Misssippi doing the Predator/Prey study...they found evidence of 3 bears having fed on remains of a fawn white tails. They have no information on what killed the 3 fawns, just that they found evidence a bear fed on the remains. The study fails to take in account road-killed fawns being discovered by a foraging bear, carried into the brush and fed on. It also totally ingnores the great number of fawns killed when farmers are mowing hay. The remains of chopped up fawns are a food source for all kinds of predators.

For a study to have credibility it has to take in account all types of incidents fatal to fawns. Consequently, either researchers lack knowledge of the many pitfalls fawn whitetails face, or they are designing their data to meet a specific agenda. 

Further more, Dr. Lynn Rogers, the nationally recognized black bear 
authority stated, black bear will prey on a white tail fawn if they happen onto one during its first 10 days of life. After that they simply run off and bears almost never try to pursue them. 

I dare say, when we have certain DNR spokesperson's and at least one NRC commissioner mistating the facts when speaking in public forum's...it calls into question what their motive is. A bunch of us expect our natural resources to be managed using sound science.


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## Mickey Finn (Jan 21, 2005)

Its long been my understanding. Bears eat the animals they can catch.( Us for instance.) With no demonstrated ability to work cooperatively. We know, catching, fleeing fawns. Or fleeing deer, for that matter. Is just, out of the question. It is hard for me to understand. How a wildlife manager could suggest otherwise. 


I support the DNR and the NRC. So, I'm willing to believe. They simply mis-spoke. 
ATB


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## TrekJeff (Sep 7, 2007)

They must just prefer black tail fawns then...


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Do you have a link to the study?


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## Mickey Finn (Jan 21, 2005)

TrekJeff said:


> They must just prefer black tail fawns then...
> YouTube - &#x202a;Black Bear Chasing A Blacktailed Doe and Fawn&#x202c;&rlm;


Nice footage!

Interesting to note. Even with the truck blocking their egress. This bear failed to catch the fawn or the deer. 

ATB


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## Bearboy (Feb 4, 2009)

http://fwrc.msstate.edu/carnivore/predatorprey/index.asp

The information Rooster used was from a handout at the bear users group meeting in St. Ignace this June. An interesting article in June Woods n Water News(2011). Its on Page 22 written by John Ozoga. The state did research in the late 1960's and 1970's in the Upper Peninsula on fawn mortality and winter severity according to Ozoga's article. After a mild winter 10% mortality for newborn fawns and up to 75% after a severe winter. Lots of carrion out there. Being a "yooper" most winters have been pretty bad compared to the few easy ones.


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## Bearboy (Feb 4, 2009)

Its long been my understanding. Bears eat the animals they can catch.( Us for instance.) With no demonstrated ability to work cooperatively. We know, catching, fleeing fawns. Or fleeing deer, for that matter. Is just, out of the question. It is hard for me to understand. How a wildlife manager could suggest otherwise. 



Read more at Michigan-Sportsman.com: bogus claim bear are a major predator - The Michigan Sportsman Forums http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=383495#ixzz1Q0pLBaD3

I support the DNR as well. During the 2010 June bear users group meeting the biologists told a story of an adult whitetail doe being eaten by a black bear. They suggested the bear was killed by the bear, there was evidence of broken down vegatation around the carcass. It was an October observation. I am only a car salesmen but every time I see where a bear feeds there is lots of grass, weeds, and small trees that are broken down. Wouldn't the National Geographic channel or someone have a story on bears showing them catching deer? We all understand as bear hunters this is absurd, it's the deer hunters that have a tendancy to believe it. I hear from customers on a weekly basis that bear kill deer...like its some sort of revalation? Misinformation is not acceptable.


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## anon12162011 (Jun 9, 2009)

I believe they mis-spoke rooster, much like you did when you said University of Mississippi when in fact its Mississippi State University who are conducting the study.

http://www.fwrc.msstate.edu/carnivore/predatorprey/index.asp


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

When we have a late spring here in the U.P. it is understood some does under stress will abandon their fawn/fawns shortly after giving berth. Obviously there is significant scavenger feeding on remains of abandoned fawns. 

Regarding Adam Bump being convinced MDNR found where a bear killed an adult deer based simply on the assumption the brush was packed down...is a huge assumption for a professional wildlife biologist to make...considering the possibilities of an unrecovered wounded deer, or one hit by a vehicle and was able to crawl off. Not sure why MDNR is going off on this tangent.


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## Ford 800 (Jan 5, 2010)

I wonder what the most successful bear guides think about this "study". Their constantly watching bear movement 24/7 year round.


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## LumberJ (Mar 9, 2009)

I'm sure it happens from time to time...if they can take a moose calf they can take a fawn.
But I don't imagine it's a huge problem


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDEW-nIg844"]YouTube - &#x202a;Black Bear takes Moose Calf&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]


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## old professor (Oct 26, 2008)

I agree with Rooster! I do not think that bears are the major predator of fawns.


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## irishmanusa (Mar 10, 2009)

> Wolves are the only predator in Michigan large enough to take down and adult moose, although mortality studies of moose in the Upper Peninsula show depredation by wolves is not a measurable factor in moose mortality. Calves frequently are attacked by bobcats and bears. A moose in the wild can reach, on average, 27 years of age.


Taken from: http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12145_58476-256177--,00.html

Sure, I believe the bears will eat fawns and calves, but I don't think they "stalk and kill" either one - they feed on the carcasses left behind...


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## Nimrod1 (Apr 26, 2004)

Here is a short paper from Dr. Rogers. Interesting to note that he estimates that the bears in the study group killed/scavenged 10% of the estimated fawns in the study area. These were only the fawns consumed by the 2 bears in the study. Other than the 2 fawns in the total that were left behind by other bears, there is no indication of how many additional fawns were take by other bears in the area.

http://www.bearstudy.org/website/im..._by_Black_Bears_in_Northeastern_Minnesota.pdf

&#12288;
Fawn predation by black bears in northeastern Minnesota ​
Lynn L. Rogers, Patrick S. Beringer, David A. Trauba, and Gregory A. Wilker. North Central Forest Experiment Station, SR 1, Box 7200, Ely, MN 55731 (218) 365-4138 
Is the black bear (Ursus ameri​_ca_nus) an important predator of white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus) fawns? Do fawns contribute significantly to black bear diets? We attempted to answer these and other questions by closely observing 5 wild, researcher-habituated black bears in northeastern Minnesota for 1 or more years during 1986-1991. The bears were observed to kill or scavenge 21 fawns, all between 23 May and 28 June of those years. In 1990, observations were concentrated on a territorial mother and her independent yearling from 23 May to 27 June. The 2 bears used an area of 19.7 square kilometers which contained an estimated 69 fawns (3.5 fawns/km<2>) (Mark Lenarz, Minnesota Department of Natural Resources, personal communication, 1990). The mother killed 2 fawns, found 2 that had been killed by other bears, scavenged a nonpredated carcass, and killed or scavenged 1 other. The yearling killed and ate 1 fawn. These 7 fawns, comprised 10 percent of the estimated 69 fawns available and comprised 2-5 percent of the 2 bears" diets. The bears detected bedded fawns up to 186 m away. Eight (38%) of the 21 fawns eaten during this study were eaten between June 10 and 15 when fawns are approximately 10-15 days old, assuming birth dates around June 1. This age of highest vulnerability coincides with the age when fawns begin to move more frequently and create scent by urinating on their back legs. Bears found fawns incidentally in the course of feeding upon insects and vegetation. At observed fawn densities, the bears did not appear to hunt fawns until they smelled them. ​
Annotation: Newborn fawns contributed 2-5% to the diets of 2 bears between 23 May and 27 June in Superior National Forest, in Minnesota. The 7 fawns that were killed or scavenged comprised 10 percent of the 
 estimated 69 fawns in the bears' territories. ​
Key words: Black bear, ursus americanus, white-tailed deer fawn, predation, scavenging, black bear diet.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

I believe they take some fawns. Its just nature, There are lots of critters eating others critters.......Didnt that famous bear researcher from the report significant predation in the 70's or 80's.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

It's not a bogus claim. Bears eat fawns. So what? That's what they're supposed to do. Predators eat things. Big whoop. 

In a New Brunswick study, black bears were a significant (23%) mortality source on deer fawns.
http://www.umaine.edu/cfru/Events/Munsungan_DWA_12.07/Harrison_Predation.pdf

Here's a MN study where bears and wolves were about even on fawn mortality.
http://www.wolf.org/wolves/learn/wow/pdf/201wolfandbearpredation.pdf

More on that study...
Black bears were presumed to be the largest source of moose calf mortality when black bear numbers were 10 times greater than brown bears and when black bear densities were greater than 520 per 1000 mi². Predation nearly ceased by the time the calves are 2 months old. However, cow moose will aggressively defend their young against bear attack, and bears may be injured or killed when attempting to prey on moose calves. In Newfoundland, black bears accounted for 35% of caribou calf mortalities, 62% of which occurred within 4 weeks of birth. Black bear have also preyed on mule or white-tailed deer fawns in some areas. A New York study suggested that bear predation on newborn fawns could be a significant factor affecting annual recruitment. Bear predation also accounted for 49% of 21 radio-collared fawn mortalities in northeastern Minnesota. 



Here's some info from John Ozoga in Deer and Deer Hunting...


Studies have shown that newborn fawn mortality can be 20 percent to 25percent once fawns reach four or five weeks old and become more active, Ozoga said. But a healthy deer herd can easily handle that. 

Ozoga added that such results are on par with what he found with black bear predation on newborn fawns. In those studies, Ozoga noted that bears can kill up to 22 percent of newborn fawns during optimum predation conditions  poor habitat and high deer densities. 

When asked to estimate a worst-case scenario for the lower Midwest, Ozoga said coyote predation on adult deer would barely register a couple of percentage points annually. Yes, it happens, but they (coyotes) are not very successful, especially on bare ground, he said. 



Read more: Are Coyotes Killing Your Deer? | Deer & Deer Hunting | Whitetail Deer Advice and Instruction http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/biology/coyotekill#ixzz1QCTzHUrt


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## Bearboy (Feb 4, 2009)

The Upper Peninsula is deep snow country. Coyotes can kill deer if they have to in deep snow country. I think its safe to say that winter severity is main reason for deer fluctuations in the UP, specifically snow depth. 

Premature information on black bear predation on fawn is not good for bears. Although it looks like its clear that the bears either feed on carrion from fawns or catch a few in a 30 day window, significant? No. When bear numbers were up in the UP so were deer numbers. What I don't like to see is propaganda. It's no secret wolves are getting shot. Predator hunts are all over the UP(for coyotes). This is in response to low deer numbers. From a bear hunters point of veiw, I hate to see bears getting gut shot by disgruntled deer hunters. When the studies over, release the results!!


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

If hunters are PO'd about deer getting killed impacting their hunt, it's the mirror they likely need to look to, not bears, wolves, coyotes, etc.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Pinefarm, I appreciate the information you posted and your unbiased statements. I read those same reports several months ago. I certainly agree, bears do prey on newborn fawns. Even fisher have been known to 
kill the newborns. Reportedly, one of the NRC commissioner's from the 
U.P. made a public statement in a meeting about 10 days ago claiming
black bear kill about 80,000 fawns annually and wolves kill 33,000. That's bogus. For an individual granted oversight over the state's wildlife by the governor of Michigan to make these kind of public statements...is another example why many of us believe some of the commissioners have a credibility problem. 

Hopefully, biologists will be in a better position to get past the many flawed assumptions made in the earlier fawn predation studies thanks to the new gps technology. But, regardless...your statement about not looking any farther than the mirror is right on the money.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

It sounds like the window when bears get the fawns is pretty short. But again, so what? That's nature. Predators have been eating newborn everythings since the dawn of time. Hawks kill small game too. Watch any African documentary and every predator follows the herds and hammers the young and the old. That's why they're there.

Just driving down the road and seeing the highways littered with roadkill deer, I think it's wise to look elsewhere than blaming coyotes or bears as some kind of scapegoat.

Oddly enough, in the grand scheme, bears need to kill those fawns to survive. We don't.


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