# Porcupine Quill Complications?



## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but my GSP had a nasty run-in with a porcupine a couple of weeks ago on a grouse/woodcock hunt and I noticed some unusual behaviour this A.M. before work. The "symtoms" included lethargy and lots of coughing.

I thought I got all the quills at the time of the incident (there must have been 40-50) but I also retrieved a few loose ones from her mouth that I can imagine, if swallowed, could cause some havoc. I'll see how she's doing tonight after work, and if not better, I'll take her-in.

Anybody ever experience long-term problems after a porcupine incident?


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## upnut (Aug 31, 2004)

The vet who worked on my dog in the U.P. told of a local family who thought they had found all the quills on their GSP, in the rib cage area. A couple months later the vet thought he detected a heart murmer, and soon after the dog died. He opened the poor critter up and found a quill that had punctured the sack around the heart, caused infection to start and ultimately killed the dog. Nothing to be taken lightly...Scott B.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

Quills can move, and cause abscesses and infections that aren't obvious until it's too late. 

I know of several dogs that died from quill complications. 

Drop everything and get that dog to the vet for a full set of x-rays.


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

FindTheBird said:


> Anybody ever experience long-term problems after a porcupine incident?


YES.

Porky quills have reverse barbs and can migrate like a needle thru the skin and into SC tissues and into body cavities and organs. If they end up in the wrong place, they can cause havoc. I know of a case where a carotid artery was punctured a couple of weeks later by a porky quill. The dog died in minutes. Porkys are pretty filthy creatures and their quills can carry some pretty nasty bacteria internally as well.

My Scout got into a nasty tangle with one a few weeks ago. His first and I hope last- fingers crossed twice here. Had about 50 in his face, nose and mouth. I thought we got em all the first time around but at home under better light, found a couple more. Since that time, we've done a little "porky proof training" and I surely hope it takes!

Good Luck with yr pup.

Natty B.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

In Outdoor Life this month that had a tip for removal of the quills. Apply vinegar and let set, then apply baby oil. Something about the vinegar breaks down lime.


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## adam bomb (Feb 27, 2006)

good luck with your dog. i hope nothing terrible is happening. porky quills are nasty. theyre not fun for the dog or the person pulling them out. bad deal all around. unfortunately it happens all to often with dogs.:sad: 

i heard that if you clip the ends of the quills off then it releases air pressurre from the quills and they come out more easily. anybody else hear this? is it true?  

if so, i wish i would have known that when i had to pull them out of my uncles dog TWICE(she's also got into 2 skunks...some dogs never learn  ), and my buddies lab once.


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## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

adam bomb said:


> i heard that if you clip the ends of the quills off then it releases air pressurre from the quills and they come out more easily. anybody else hear this? is it true?  .


Very interesting. My dog had several that were buried over an inch, and yes, they are tough to pull-out; especially when it's raining and like me, you've become feeble-minded enough to forget the needle nose pliers!

Anyway, I took the pup (who by the way, stopped coughing totally--she's probably been smoking behind my back again:lol: ). to the vet. The vet performed a basic examination and came-up empty-handed, recommending that if the lethargy or coughing continue for a few more days, to come back. 

One bright-spot to the whole scenario was that we ran across another porcupine later that day. When, for God knows what reason she showed some interest in the critter, I was ready with the e-collar. I have my doubts, but hopefully that helped to cure her of her addiction to small, nasty animals. 

Don't get me wrong, I admire my GSP greatly and I believe it's a wonderful breed, but after multiple porky, raccoon and skunk encounters the non-versitle breeds begin to look even better: my young E. Pointer shows very little interest in critters of the four-legged variety.


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## Mickey Finn (Jan 21, 2005)

adam bomb said:


> i heard that if you clip the ends of the quills off then it releases air pressurre from the quills and they come out more easily. anybody else hear this? is it true?


I asked the Vet this question. She said it was not true. Just pull them out fast. If they are poking threw the lip or tongue for instances. You can snip off the fatter hollow end, and pull them out like an arrow in the old movies. The areas that are most likely to cause complications from migrating quills. The mouth and the chest area.


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

Mickey Finn said:


> I asked the Vet this question. She said it was not true. Just pull them out fast. If they are poking threw the lip or tongue for instances. You can snip off the fatter hollow end, and pull them out like an arrow in the old movies. The areas that are most likely to cause complications from migrating quills. The mouth and the chest area.


*BINGO!!*

Just one of the oldest "old wives tales" around. If you think about it, even a little bit, you'll see why clipping them off before pulling them out is a really bad idea.:idea: 

NB


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## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

Linda G. said:


> Quills can move, and cause abscesses and infections that aren't obvious until it's too late. I know of several dogs that died from quill complications.


Update: after roughly 6 weeks, a large, nasty abcess DID form on the back of my dog's neck. I took her to the vet where I found out the surgeon was off for the next week:rant:.

In light of the situation, I think this advice may have been a little questionable, but the attending vet prescribed anti-biotics suggested I wait for the surgeon to return from vacation before taking further action...fast-forward about 3 days: the abcess shrunk substantially, and while petting my dog, I noticed something sharp poking through the skin atop the abcess. You got it, a quill. I pulled it out (they pull a hell of a lot easier from the "sharp" end) and since that time, the abcess has all but disappeared.

From the position of the abcess and probable direction of the quill, it looked like it had migrated completely through the neck muscle, potentially coming close to nerves, trachea and the carotid artery. Yep, it's probably wise to take these things very seriously.


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## Tecumseh (Aug 13, 2004)

Whew. Hopefully that is the only one you missed. Close call.


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## midwestfisherman (Apr 19, 2001)

Tecumseh said:


> Whew. Hopefully that is the only one you missed. Close call.


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## Merimac (Jan 17, 2006)

my pup got hit by one this 3 months ago. She had a few days of acting strange.. but I have never seen anything beyond that.


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## Ruger1 (Sep 27, 2004)

Never ceases to amaze me how casually many bird dog owners react to encounters between their dogs and porcupines. Quills can migrate and sometimes they come out without harm and sometimes their migration leads to a tragedy. My first GSP got into it with a porky and three months later a quill came out of the back of her neck! If one of my dogs comes back with a few quills on the outside of their lips or nose I pull them out, check their mouth thoroughly and look way down their throat. If the dog has a mouth full of quills it is off to the vet. Most country vets will sedate a dog, pull out all of the quills, look way, way, way down their throat and give a shot of antibiotics for under $100.00. Cheap insurance to perhaps save your buddy's life. As previously posted do not soak in vinegar, do not snip off etc. all wive's tales. And never believe that going after a porkie is breed specific!


Ruger1


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## chewy (Mar 27, 2006)

:lol: hey find the bird, your use of the english dictionary and punctuation is wayyy to good for this site...


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## jackbob42 (Nov 12, 2003)

A side note about people also.......

I got one in my thigh a few years back while pulling them from a dog. Didn't notice it right away , never felt it go in. Went to the hospital when I got home that night. By that time , it had went below the surface of the skin. Now , I had to have a surgeon to get it out. No surgeon on duty. Had me wait the next morning. By that time , it had moved up my thigh about 2 inches. The surgeon dug straight in and couldn't find it. 3 days later , it came to the surface about 4 inches up from where it had gone in. I got ahold of it and pulled it out. Boy , did that feel better ! I got lucky !

That next spring , our uniform guy said " Hey Bob , ain't you the one..... " , and I said yaeh , that's me. Well , he told me about his neighbor getting 2 quills in his hand while pulling them from his dog. They went into his knuckle between the first and second fingers. He DIDN'T go get them out. They got infected and 3 days later , he passed out. They wound up having to take both fingers off because the infection had gotten into the joints.

So , if you get one in you , GET IT OUT !


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## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

chewy said:


> :lol: hey find the bird, your use of the english dictionary and punctuation is wayyy to good for this site...


Somebody gots to give good writin xamples round here cusin ther aint hardly none! Xuse me I gotsta go feed them dogs!:evil:


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## john warren (Jan 25, 2005)

whats amaizing to me is the dogs don't learn and will do it again if given half a chance.
and yeah,,, sloppy up yer riten fer us a bit wouldja?


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## fdunford (Aug 14, 2004)

FindTheBird said:


> Anybody ever experience long-term problems after a porcupine incident?


I have heard stories where a quill can cause serious heath complications. I've heard quills can and do move as the muscle contracts. The story I'm refering to is one where a dog died because a quill worked it's way into the brain years after a porkie incident. I don't know if it's true or not.

My story is one where my bit*h got into a porkie big time. She looked like the horror file guy 'pin head'. I pulled out as many as I could, and the MSU vet school got out the rest (or so we thought). Over 18+ months later I was rubbing her muzzle and felt a sharp poke. I put her under some good light and couldn't believe it. I got out some tweezers and pulled out a quill about 1 1/4 inch long. So for me it wasn't a serious issue but every case is different.

I honestly would take out all I could, then consider a trip to the vet. After that, I say don't worry about it.

One word of caution for thouse who may not know. Keep a good pair of needle nose plyers to pull quills, BUT, make sure you cut the qill in the middle first. This will release the barb and it will come out much easier. I didn't know this and did it the hard way - sorry girl.


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## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

fdunford said:


> make sure you cut the qill in the middle first. This will release the barb and it will come out much easier. I didn't know this and did it the hard way - sorry girl.


Didn't know that: I hope I don't get a chance to try it, but knowing my GSP, I probably will. 
In my recent situation, most of the quills protruded enough to pull, but a few (including the one(s) I obviously missed) where embedded nearly all the way and I had to pull some hair to get the tip of the needle-nose on them.


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