# Victory TKO Outsert Issue



## MallardMaster (Nov 17, 2003)

I am looking for some opinions on what happened after the shot with my arrow and outsert. I shoot a Victory Archery TKO Green 300 Spine Arrow with 125gr Iron Will broadhead. I shot a buck yesterday and had a complete pass through and found my arrow in this condition. It just seems odd that this would happen due to hitting a rib bone. These arrows are advertised as being tough (better be for the price!) and to see the outsert pealed like that. There were also no rocks in the area and was in a Red Pine grove. 
Just wondering if anyone else has encountered anything weird like this in the past. Was thinking that maybe the 125gr head was a little too heavy for the 300 spine arrow, and the impact may have caused this, but that doesn't seem right. Figured I would check the esteemed opinions of the MS Group before contacting Victory Archery and Grand Valley Sporting Goods for their insight.


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

Small nick in the shaft maybe . Or maybe manufacture defect .


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## 454casull (Jan 6, 2005)

IMO the arrow is not flying true...whipping action caused collar to split or combine that with a hard bone impact. Seen it in the olden days of 3D where guys would break an arrow on a 3D target. Shaft is in better shape than the outsert. Is it just me or does that outsert look like it doesn't have enough overlap (depth)? Too much solid material to allow for the threaded part of the outsert and this creates a bit of a lever condition? No not an engineer, would have started my reply with that if I was!


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## MallardMaster (Nov 17, 2003)

454casull said:


> IMO the arrow is not flying true...whipping action caused collar to split or combine that with a hard bone impact. Seen it in the olden days of 3D where guys would break an arrow on a 3D target. Shaft is in better shape than the outsert. Is it just me or does that outsert look like it doesn't have enough overlap (depth)? Too much solid material to allow for the threaded part of the outsert and this creates a bit of a lever condition? No not an engineer, would have started my reply with that if I was!


You might definitely be onto something if the arrow isn't flying true. I know I don't have the proper vane set-up for a single bevel broadhead. The flew fine at home, but its the things that you don't see unless you have a slow motion camera. My initial thought was that the outset was never glued properly and didn't bond with the shaft at that location. So when it did slow down after making contact with the bone, it caused the arrow to torque in the outsert in that brief moment and put added stress on the outsert causing it to fail. Just a crazy hypothesis on my part. What sucks is that this arrow is now trash and those Victory TKO's are not cheap!


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## ratherboutside (Mar 19, 2010)

MallardMaster said:


> I am looking for some opinions on what happened after the shot with my arrow and outsert. I shoot a Victory Archery TKO Green 300 Spine Arrow with 125gr Iron Will broadhead. I shot a buck yesterday and had a complete pass through and found my arrow in this condition. It just seems odd that this would happen due to hitting a rib bone. These arrows are advertised as being tough (better be for the price!) and to see the outsert pealed like that. There were also no rocks in the area and was in a Red Pine grove.
> Just wondering if anyone else has encountered anything weird like this in the past. Was thinking that maybe the 125gr head was a little too heavy for the 300 spine arrow, and the impact may have caused this, but that doesn't seem right. Figured I would check the esteemed opinions of the MS Group before contacting Victory Archery and Grand Valley Sporting Goods for their insight.
> View attachment 793051
> View attachment 793052
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2 things. 

1 would be its a bad arrow and/or outsert. 

2 would be did it hit something hard after pass through. Like a rock in the dirt. 

125 grain head with an outsert that is less than 200 grains shouldnt be a problem unless your arrow is over 32" and you shoot like 75 lbs. 

Even it the glue was poorly done at the up shaft end, the tolerance should be tight enough that there should be no movement. I have collars and I dont even glue them. I know it is a little different but the movement should be similar. 

Sent from my SM-G998U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## Joe Archer (Mar 29, 2000)

I'd place my money on the "Rock" theory as well. 
You are a bit behind schedule if you are just now discovering that your broadheads don't hit with your field points.
Did you recover the buck? If so, where did you hit? Was the exit hole in line with your entrance? 
<----<<<


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## Urriah (Jul 26, 2013)

My first reaction is either some sort of manufacturer's defect or you damaged that shaft accidentally practicing. Did you shoot your shafts with broadheads prior to season? Any chance you caught it with another head while tuning?


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## MallardMaster (Nov 17, 2003)

Joe Archer said:


> I'd place my money on the "Rock" theory as well.
> You are a bit behind schedule if you are just now discovering that your broadheads don't hit with your field points.
> Did you recover the buck? If so, where did you hit? Was the exit hole in line with your entrance?
> <----<<<


Buck was dead within 40yds of where it was hit. The buck was quartering towards me based on the exit hole. I shot through both lungs. I would normally agree with you on the rock theory, but this was in a pine grove and there are no rocks present in the area. The impact would definitely lead one to believe that was the case. To be transparent, the broadheads actually flew more consistent
with than my field points did. So much so that I had to shoot at different spots to ensure not arrows were damaged.
Its an interesting conundrum and I might never have the answer. I was just wondering by chance if anyone here had ran across this before. I had some good replies on RS about my inquiry and i'm basically ditching the outserts and moving forward with HIT inserts.


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## ratherboutside (Mar 19, 2010)

MallardMaster said:


> Buck was dead within 40yds of where it was hit. The buck was quartering towards me based on the exit hole. I shot through both lungs. I would normally agree with you on the rock theory, but this was in a pine grove and there are no rocks present in the area. The impact would definitely lead one to believe that was the case. To be transparent, the broadheads actually flew more consistent
> with than my field points did. So much so that I had to shoot at different spots to ensure not arrows were damaged.
> Its an interesting conundrum and I might never have the answer. I was just wondering by chance if anyone here had ran across this before. I had some good replies on RS about my inquiry and i'm basically ditching the outserts and moving forward with HIT inserts.


Be careful with hit inserts. I have them in my arrows and there are 2 problems.

1. The set depth is easy to screw up especially with the slow set epoxy. I never had any too shallow but lost 2 arrows because they were too deep and the threads on points and heads would reach. I believ they slid down after placment. I started adding a 3/16 shim to the setting tool which solved this issue. 

2. Is the known issue of the head impacting the shaft without the insert lip as a buffer. The head and insert will drive into the arrow and split them. I was proactive and added a collar to prevent this. 



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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

If it caught a bone on the edge the arrow may have twisted sideways and snapped.


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## MallardMaster (Nov 17, 2003)

ratherboutside said:


> Be careful with hit inserts. I have them in my arrows and there are 2 problems.
> 
> 1. The set depth is easy to screw up especially with the slow set epoxy. I never had any too shallow but lost 2 arrows because they were too deep and the threads on points and heads would reach. I believ they slid down after placment. I started adding a 3/16 shim to the setting tool which solved this issue.
> 
> ...


One of the replies that I received on RS was also a suggestion to add a collar to the arrow construction to avoid the head and insert issue you spoke about in item #2. I am basically going to change my entire arrow set-up for next year with custom arrows as well. Was hoping that Grand Valley did them, but when I asked this fall they said they only modify the factory arrows they receive. So maybe Long Range does that. Doesn't matter at the moment anyways as I am not sure if I even have the ability in my schedule to get back up in a tree here in Michigan.


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