# Dove hunting in Michigan



## poz (Nov 12, 2004)

The problem in Michigan is it's no longer hunters against non hunters. It's hunters against hunters. Just look at the deer hunting forum and look at how hunters are willing to take opportunities from other hunters. We lost the dove vote pure and simple because hunters did stick together. And most hunters didn't learn a damn thing from it


----------



## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

Might want to see if BradyMSU, I think it is,,, can weigh in on how the "law and legislative" process goes for hunting. 

He told me once,, and I can't remember now.... The issue I brought up was, why the "right to hunt" isn't in our States Constitution...

The long and short of it is,,,, the hunters and non-hunters have gotten along fairly well for all of these years... If we tried to have that right written into the Constitution,, we very well could lose it all...

Anyway,, he'd be able to explain it better...


----------



## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Just call them a nuisance species and open season on them. Rock "city" doves have no closed season what is the difference, shoot them all. And open a nuisance season on wolves and sandhill cranes in the UP too.


----------



## WAUB-MUKWA (Dec 13, 2003)

Robert Holmes said:


> Just call them a nuisance species and open season on them. Rock "city" doves have no closed season what is the difference, shoot them all. And open a nuisance season on wolves and sandhill cranes in the UP too.


Lot of meat on the long legged dumpster crane chickens. :yikes:


----------



## DIYsportsman (Dec 21, 2010)

Robert Holmes said:


> Just call them a nuisance species and open season on them. Rock "city" doves have no closed season what is the difference, shoot them all. And open a nuisance season on wolves and sandhill cranes in the UP too.


The differences is they are a migratory bird and are regulated by the feds, as for someone said about wimter hunting them, thats impossable cause they are in texas or mexico by the time its winter here, they hate the cold, and im guessin they leave mi by september, but im not sure


_OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors._


----------



## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

First off i dont think laws and religion should mix period


----------



## stevebrandle (Jan 23, 2000)

boehr said:


> I just don't remember the DNR needing or wanting a vote. That is what happens when you get politicians involved. My memorys serves that Grandholm was going to just outright veto the bill, hence MUCC steped in with the few southern counties testing and bunny huggers along with their bunny hugger politicians went for a petitition to put it on the ballot. The legislature even then tried to tie it to a budget issue so it couldn't be voted on but courts overruled that too. The courts, now I am no longer part of it, gagged the DNR with an injuction for positive informtion being put out in favor of dove hunting. Of course judges are a type of politician anyway. That's just a general overview without specifics but one could probably serch this site to find out more specifics when it happened.


So, you think maybe the DNR already has the right to open a dove season or are they lacking something legal wise? If they could just do it maybe we need a director with some back bone and no political fear. If we really want a dove season in Michigan we need to think outside of what's been done before. Why can't the NRC just say we have an abundance of a resource (mourning doves) and recommend that it be harvested? I know it sounds too simple, but there has to be a way to take the emotion factor out of the mix.


----------



## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Linda G. said:


> The loss of a dove season here in Michigan was one of our greatest conservation losses ever. The income from the dove stamps would have greatly improved wildlife habitat for a a lot of species besides doves, not to mention what it would have done for the heritage of hunting in this state.
> 
> I agree with Ed about Mettle, I don't know what book he's been reading, but he's reading the wrong one. I doubt he's ever been dove hunting, or seen how it's done.
> 
> ...


Linda, get some facts before you open your fingers!..in order to of lost a dove season, there would of had to of been one! Perhaps if the biologists could of presented a better presentation as to why we need one well! Dove stamps!...oh yea like Partridge stamps, Rabbitt stamps, Squirrell stamps! :lol: I shoot a lot of Rock Doves along with Geese and Ducks near Hendersen, I dont have to have a stamp for those, just the waterfowl! Great field hunting there near the Saginaw county line and pits! 

Oh that sounds like a great heritage builder Linda... standing shoulder to shoulder, the only shoulder to shoulder shooting I do is at the skeet range. I believe lead is banned in waterfowl hunting isn't it?..... and I hear quite a bit of rumbling about banning it from use while fishing, hmmm perhaps they're onto something! Come for a walk on state land, I'll show you the trash left by ''hunters", if they would only put a deposit on booze bottles, that would make a nice addition to the $ I collect from the beer cans for the red kettle at Christmas... 

I personally liked the bait ban, we had fewer tresspass issues, I imagine because a lot of todays hunters can't take a Deer w/out bait, to each their own though! Back to the heritage issue, perhaps it's the way people see us in todays hunting shows, I hate to watch them anymore.... if Mort Neff could see us now aye!...


----------



## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

As I recall, when the governor (Granholm, and we should all remember what political party she was part of), was presented with all the petitions, she ordered it to go to a vote of the people, when she really shouldn't have gotten involved at all. I remember concerns about it being taken to court, which would have threatened a number of our hunting concerns, so it was agreed to go to a vote of the people. 

But my memory, even just five years ago, is not all that good. Where is Zeboy?? Or Brdhunter? They'd remember, they were both more involved than I was. I did what I could up here, but nobody cared at all about it up here, it was just sad.

I participated in the "first official Michigan dove hunt" with Sue Tabor and the head guy from the US Sportsmans's Alliance, forgot his name, in St. Joe County. One of the members here, forgot his web name, something with a really neat little breed of hunting dog, was one of our "guides"...it was fun. The only time I've ever hunted doves in Michigan. 

I'm waiting for those Eurasian ringnecked doves to show up in Michigan, they're exotics and we should be able to shoot away. Problem is, I'm told, they hang out in town on bird feeders and rarely show up in the wild.


----------



## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Robert Holmes said:


> Just call them a nuisance species and open season on them. Rock "city" doves have no closed season what is the difference, shoot them all. And open a nuisance season on wolves and sandhill cranes in the UP too.


 
Rock Doves are not Native to North America, and are thought to carry Human diseases, so we get to shoot them along with Eurapean House Sparrows and European Starlings. Don't forget your license though!... remember Fred Trost not having his and gettin checked, if only they'd hold Michigan Out of Doors T.V. to those standards!


----------



## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

> As I recall, when the governor (Granholm, and we should all remember what political party she was part of), was presented with all the petitions, she ordered it to go to a vote of the people, when she really shouldn't have gotten involved at all.


The dove huggers garnered enough signatures to put it on the ballot via Michigan ballot proposal law.


----------



## justrace (Oct 28, 2011)

I wish there were a season for them. They outnumbered the black bird this fall in the corn fields. It was fun to watch the red tail hawks take them out though.

On our family farm the population has exploded. As far as the economy and conservation would go it would be a win win. The dnr would receive revenue from license sales, farmers would get rid of crop damaging birds, and hunters would be happy having another species to hunt.


----------



## YoteSlammer (Aug 31, 2008)

METTLEFISH said:


> Linda, get some facts before you open your fingers!..in order to of lost a dove season, there would of had to of been one! *Perhaps if the biologists could of presented a better presentation as to why we need one well! Dove stamps*!...oh yea like Partridge stamps, Rabbitt stamps, Squirrell stamps! :lol: I shoot a lot of Rock Doves along with Geese and Ducks near Hendersen, I dont have to have a stamp for those, just the waterfowl! Great field hunting there near the Saginaw county line and pits!
> 
> 
> Nice! Blame it on the wildlife managers.... In most states (I'll bet MI included) data is collected, findings and recommendations are made to a committee...THEY make the final regs!!!
> ...


----------



## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

YoteSlammer said:


> METTLEFISH said:
> 
> 
> > Linda, get some facts before you open your fingers!..in order to of lost a dove season, there would of had to of been one! *Perhaps if the biologists could of presented a better presentation as to why we need one well! Dove stamps*!...oh yea like Partridge stamps, Rabbitt stamps, Squirrell stamps! :lol: I shoot a lot of Rock Doves along with Geese and Ducks near Hendersen, I dont have to have a stamp for those, just the waterfowl! Great field hunting there near the Saginaw county line and pits!
> ...


----------



## stevebrandle (Jan 23, 2000)

METTLEFISH said:


> I believe lead is banned in waterfowl hunting isn't it?..... and I hear quite a bit of rumbling about banning it from use while fishing, hmmm perhaps they're onto something! Come for a walk on state land, I'll show you the trash left by ''hunters", if they would only put a deposit on booze bottles, that would make a nice addition to the $ I collect from the beer cans for the red kettle at Christmas...
> 
> I personally liked the bait ban, we had fewer tresspass issues, I imagine because a lot of todays hunters can't take a Deer w/out bait, to each their own though! Back to the heritage issue, perhaps it's the way people see us in todays hunting shows, I hate to watch them anymore.... if Mort Neff could see us now aye!...


I _think_ your heart is in the right place, but I have to comment on your thoughts about steel shot. Waterfowl hunters dislike using it because it's a less effective/efficient way to kill the birds. They have accepted using it because of the proven facts that waterfowl die after eating it and nobody wants that. (I've yet to see a study on how many critters die after eating a 1/2 ounce fishing sinker.) 

As far as the trash and booze bottles I won't speak for these people because technically they are "hunters" if they are trying to harvest a deer, etc., but I don't think they could be labeled as sportsmen. They're slobs. 

I'm a bit puzzled on your connection between baiting and tresspassing.

I'm with you on the "heritage" thing. I like to call it legacy. I want to pass something on to my grandkids that doesn't include hanging my head. 

Finally, "aye" is what wanna-be's say. It's eh. (and only a true yoop can say it correctly)


----------



## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

I believe one of the reason we are losing grounds is many tree huggers are actually biologist and other key figures in our DNR. I think a person not only should hunt and fish for years with proof before they are hired in Michigan Department of Natural Resource. Someone that is already a conservationist then get the job to improve it.

I think another reason was stated before in the thread we bicker among ourselves instead of standing together. I read in the thread of someone bragging he does not shoot over bait then ridiculed others by saying they could not shoot a deer unless over bait, any way something close to that. What that shows is a dividing line which we can not afford please remember this country was founded by these simple words united we stand divided we fall. We started out with only 13 colonies /states but they stood united, why can't we as hunters,sportsmens, and conservationist do the same?

I also think the voters were misinformed. They thought of them as portrayed by the tree huggers and many wives went into the booths cancelling the vote their husbands gave. 

Another and more importan which has been stated many times it was political and we do not need politics to decide on our natural resource but sound management.

All told there are many reason why we do not have a dove season today.......but we should as conservationist be thinking of a dove season tomorrow


----------



## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

I know the pro's and con's of lead. I've never had an issue with effectiveness of steel, just bring the birds closer. The paranoid few that have called me an anti.... that's just plain wrong, they're ignorant. What it does do is make me think even more .... do I want to be part of a group that has ignorant - paranoid people in it?... less and less for sure!...


----------



## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

How old are you? Old enough to remember back to 2004? We DID have a dove season that year, in the six southern most counties of the lower Peninsula. You had to have a $2 dove stamp in addition to your small game license to participate. And considering the fact that it was a very short season, and only open in six counties, it was quite successful. 

And shoulder to shoulder, on prepared dove fields, is standard operating procedure for thousands of opening day dove hunters in Ohio and a number of other states. It's perfectly safe, and unless the weather is bad very successful as far as the numbers of doves bagged.I've done it for years, so have a number of other hunters from this site. 

You should at least find out more about something before you say you're against it. That was the big problem back in 2006.

Ignorance.

As far as trash in the woods by hunters, I don't know where you're hunting, but I hunt all over public land in the northern lower Peninsula, where I live, and the only booze bottles I see on the ground are those tossed by motorists along the roads.


----------



## younghunter360 (Nov 11, 2011)

Actually, I think "Zeboy" is my dad...I did not even know his screen name.
My father is Paul Zeman "Zeboy"
I am Dan Zeman "younghunter360"
and my Grandfather Hank, or Henry Zeman was a outdoors photographer and writer for the Grand Rapids Press back in the day.


----------



## YoteSlammer (Aug 31, 2008)

METTLEFISH said:


> YoteSlammer said:
> 
> 
> > If they make the regs. where's the M.D. season.... I especially like the quality Partridge hunting we have in southern MI. now too!..
> ...


----------



## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-act-451-of-1994


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

stevebrandle said:


> So, you think maybe the DNR already has the right to open a dove season or are they lacking something legal wise? If they could just do it maybe we need a director with some back bone and no political fear. If we really want a dove season in Michigan we need to think outside of what's been done before. Why can't the NRC just say we have an abundance of a resource (mourning doves) and recommend that it be harvested? I know it sounds too simple, but there has to be a way to take the emotion factor out of the mix.


No the DNR does not have the right. The vote that wasn't wanted by anyone in the DNR took care of that. The only way to get one would be have another bill passed into law which would likely cause issues just like the last time. Every year more hunters are lost to the other side being non-hunters. One of the many reads, opinions just like expressed in just about any thread on this site. Some think they are a want-to-be Ted Nugent. In the meantime hunter numbers continue to get smaller, costs continue to climb, available lands continue to decrease. Someone earlier mention 1+1, well add it up.


----------



## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

The California H.S. set up a fund of $1,000,000 to gather the signatures for the petition to get the Dove hunting issue on the ballot. All those help wanted adds appeared in the southeastern Michigan news papers.


----------



## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

younghunter360 said:


> Actually, I think "Zeboy" is my dad...I did not even know his screen name.
> My father is Paul Zeman "Zeboy"
> I am Dan Zeman "younghunter360"
> and my Grandfather Hank, or Henry Zeman was a outdoors photographer and writer for the Grand Rapids Press back in the day.


Yep, Zeboy, is Paul.....You should be very proud of the work he did on the dove issue. Tell him I said Hi.


----------



## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

Blaine man said:


> The California H.S. set up a fund of $1,000,000 to gather the signatures for the petition to get the Dove hunting issue on the ballot. All those help wanted adds appeared in the southeastern Michigan news papers.


My memory isn't the greatest, but I believe the HSUS (Washington, D.C.) donated somewhere around $350,000 to ban dove hunting in Michigan.


----------



## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Yote, Why are other peoples opinions "battling it out" ?... no one else can have an opinion aye!... I am well aware that nest predation is a big factor, looks as if were loosing trappers too. I had some info stated on that in another post that did not load. Fragmentation (urban sprawl) is another, I have'nt heard a Whip-poor-will in my area since 1986, they don't co-habitate well with people iether it seems. 

Linda the "experimintal season" was just that.. an experiment that apparently was not a big hit, we did not get a season from it. Standing shoulder to shoulder in a field shooting passerby Doves is just not for ME!, nor is put & shoot Pheasant reverves. Fortunately I can get all the action I want from Woodcock, they are plentiful at times, and if I go north I can take some Pats too. The State spends far too much time and money on non-indigeonus species like pheasant, just look at all the Sichuan's in the field! 

I would like to know why the State has not had a season on Doves, I would think that if crop loss is a big problen now it would of also been back when small farms were prevalent, it would of been part of the 'heritage" since the 1800's, more so than the Pheasants that did not come on the scene until the early 1900's, just a thought.


----------



## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

> Linda the "experimintal season" was just that.. an experiment that apparently was not a big hit, we did not get a season from it.


It was called an experiment, but it wasn't. It was a political copout by Granholm to throw the hunters in the state a bone, while the anti-dove side prepared their ballot initiative.


----------



## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Neal said:


> It was called an experiment, but it wasn't. It was a political copout by Granholm to throw the hunters in the state a bone, while the anti-dove side prepared their ballot initiative.


Was this the first attempt at a Dove season?.... I truly do not remember! If not what was the outcome then and why?


----------



## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

> Was this the first attempt at a Dove season?.... I truly do not remember! If not what was the outcome then and why?


There were other legislative attempts to designate the dove as a game bird, but they died in congress. Why? Not enough support from the hunting community and the strong lobbying force of the antis.


----------



## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

I am far from a Southern Michigan farmer but I suppose that a few of these farmers could get them declared a nuisance species and a threat to crop production and get a MDNR biologist to open controlled hunts. That might be where it has to go to get a season opened on them. At least the hunters won the bear hunting battle which also went to a vote. After the bear battle I think that control of wildlife issues went back to the Natural Resources Commission which would make it legal for them to open a dove season regardless what the voters decided.


----------



## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Robert Holmes said:


> I am far from a Southern Michigan farmer but I suppose that a few of these farmers could get them declared a nuisance species and a threat to crop production and get a MDNR biologist to open controlled hunts. That might be where it has to go to get a season opened on them. At least the hunters won the bear hunting battle which also went to a vote. After the bear battle I think that control of wildlife issues went back to the Natural Resources Commission which would make it legal for them to open a dove season regardless what the voters decided.


Great!... when's the season open Robert, I did'nt get that part!


----------

