# couple good brownies for these parts



## FishMichv2 (Oct 18, 2004)

ive been catching a good amount of little 7-10 inchers on some small nymph patterns but the cloudy water this weekend got me thinkin some small streamers might get some bigger takers. this river has some very tight quarters and using a fly rod certainly limits the areas you can hit but i like roll casting my little two weight so thats what i do.
got a nice little 12 incher yesterday and a big broad healthy 15+ today that bent my two weight into a C and even got the drag goin for a second.


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## DE82 (Nov 28, 2007)

Nice job on the fish but don't you know the fish never live long enough in the system to get that big and they don't reproduce? :lol: :lol: 

Nice job again


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## TwoDogsAndABoat (Aug 18, 2008)

That 2nd pic is awesome. I really gotta get into fly fishing. Those are some beautiful fish! Good job.


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## BIG "D" (Sep 14, 2005)

Nice fish.


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## BVG (Nov 18, 2004)

First, Nice Fish! Makes me wish I cleaned the garage in February. (that is how I spent my weekend.)

Next,
Anybody have proof the fish successfully reproduce?

I have never witnessed proof they reproduce. I would be very happy to have to work through a bunch of undersized fish to get to the big ones.

However, I am convinced the fish hold over somewhere because I have personally landed fish way bigger than anything listed on the stocking reports. Warm water does not kill these fish. There are enough people wading that river, we would see dead fish in July and August. I have spent many hours on this stream over the last 25 years and I have never witnessed any type of die off. The number one cause of death for those fish is wormsforbaititis.


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## The Downstream Drift (Feb 27, 2010)

Well said BVG! I have never witnessed a "fish kill" either although some people insist it happens. 

The only true way (in my opinion) to prove these fish are reproducing is to shock the stream in late spring. By this time all of the browns that may have reproduces should be large enough to handle the shocking. There is a program called the Riverkeepers that is being started by MI TU which includes some stream shocking to measure fish densities in certain streams. This program is fairly new and our local TU chapters are just getting started with it. They are also all looking for additonal volunteers to help out with the program. It should be a fun and interesting time on the water. What a better way to answer our questions than by being there first hand?


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## DE82 (Nov 28, 2007)

BVG said:


> First, Nice Fish! Makes me wish I cleaned the garage in February. (that is how I spent my weekend.)
> 
> Next,
> Anybody have proof the fish successfully reproduce?
> ...


Would you call pulling a trout off a bed with sperm shooting out of it proof? If so than yes  I've caught plenty of trout too small to be plants and too big to be plants


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## BVG (Nov 18, 2004)

That is a nice thing to know. Kind of gross, but nice the same. 

I guess all we need to do is convince the DNR biologists that fish can live one year to the next and there is some natural reproduction. 
Then maybe they can put some limit restrictions on the stream and we could have a really nice catch and release fishery right in town?

A few descent fish should get huge rather quick eating all the creek chubs.


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

> Would you call pulling a trout off a bed with sperm shooting out of it proof?


It's proof that they are attempting to reproduce. It is not proof that they are successfully doing so...so no it is not proof of natural reproduction. 

Secondly pulling fish off the bed? If you wanted them to reproduce and if you believe they are why fish the beds?


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## BIG "D" (Sep 14, 2005)

I have caught Brown trout that were between 2.5 and 4 inches long. These were not stocked fish. Back before everybody and their brother fished it (70's and 80's) they planted legal sized fish. We used to catch tons of smaller fish. Now you have tons of people keeping sub legal fish. This could be a super fishery if special regulation were put on it. I suggested this in the restricted regulations the DNR asked for. Also, we need more CO support to try to keep some of the fish in the creek.


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

Nice brownies. The second one hasn't missed many meals!


DE:


> Would you call pulling a trout off a bed with sperm shooting out of it proof? If so than yes I've caught plenty of trout too small to be plants and too big to be plants


It's proof that they are attempting to reproduce. It is not proof that they are successfully doing so...so no it is not proof of successful natural reproduction. I'm not saying there is or isn't natural reproduction in the stream, but fish will attempt to spawn no matter what... example: all of the planted steelhead in PA dump eggs and milt on the eggs across the shale bottom there, and there is next to no natural reproduction. So if the fish is dumping eggs or milt that is proof? I would say no.

You've caught fish smaller than 3 inches? And Bigger than 32 inches? 

BTW pulling fish off the beds isn't too healthy for a natural reproducing fishery. 

http://www.michigandnr.com/fishstock/default.asp

(the lengths shown are average, so there will be bigger and smaller)

IMO It is hard to say what fish are truly reproduced naturally and what fish aren't as long as the stream is getting stocked. Without I think to determine that there needs to be a study by the biologists.

I have only caught a handful of browns that I know were wild this year. The only way I know is that the stream hasn't been stocked in 4 decades.

I'd say it is a bit overboard to turn the stream into special regs/ C&R water. They are planting it with decent numbers for the purpose of being caught.

I'm not trying to start another debate...there isn't any way to win it, but that is how I look at it logically.


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## DE82 (Nov 28, 2007)

Trout King said:


> It's proof that they are attempting to reproduce. It is not proof that they are successfully doing so...so no it is not proof of natural reproduction.
> 
> Secondly pulling fish off the bed? If you wanted them to reproduce and if you believe they are why fish the beds?


 When did I say I was fishing for them on a bed? On my Dad's drift it happen to hit the outside of a bed . I'm getting really tired of the high and mighty telling people what they are doing is right or wrong. If somebody is fishing legally than that's all they should care about, this "moral police" crap needs to stop on these forums. I'm not singling you out here, A LOT of people do it. 

The second part of my post also said I've caught fish too small to be plants and too big to be plants. The smallest they plant fish in is 4inches, I've caught rainbows and browns under 3. 

I've told you before, if you don't believe it you are welcome to fish with me in my spots on this side of the state and I can show you that we DO have trout water here that's pretty decent. TU has spent countless hours and money making parts of the clinton and paint places where trout will thrive and reproduce. According to fishermen that have fished the paint for decades and according to TU and the fisheries biologist they DO reproduce

I guess in the end all we can do is TRY and inform people, they don't have to believe it or listen, I myself try and listen to people who fish the waters more than I do so I can learn and take what they say to heart. Myself? I'm tired getting my head bit off for trying to help people out like others on this site have helped me. So I will respectfully bow out and keep my information to myself. I spend as much time as anybody on the paint and clinton in the last 3-4 seasons and for somebody who always gets told how stupid and wrong I am, I seem to always catch a lot of fish and some good sized ones too  Good luck to all.


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## BIG "D" (Sep 14, 2005)

Getting real tired of dealing with "people" who don't grasp what Paint Creek could be if let be. Last year me and Splitshot got into over the same thing. People who do not fish this river should stay out of it. Those of us who really fish it know that there is reproduction. If the DNR can't provide CO's, How are they ever going to do a stream study? Sorry to kind of hijack your thread. Like I said, nice fish.


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## the rapids (Nov 17, 2005)

The Downstream Drift said:


> Well said BVG! I have never witnessed a "fish kill" either although some people insist it happens.




fish kills on clinton river.... from page 68 or so of the assessment. thought you would have read this... obviously some of you were not fishing this river back in 05 but the same thing can happen again... we had another one too... also fish kills are why they stopped stocking the clinton with browns back in the early 90's... when they originally tried to make it a brown fishery....

*Comment: *​​Is there more information on the two fish kills that occurred this summer (2005) in the areas where trout were stocked and where is the wastewater treatment plant located?

Response: Dead fish were reported on June 6, 2005 in the Clinton River downstream of Auburn Road. The kill was restricted to brown trout. The cause of the fish kill was a sag in the dissolved oxygen. Hot weather was associated with this fish kill, but was not a contributing factor. The specific cause of the reduced oxygen level was not determined. The second report of dead fish came on August 18, 2005 in the same area. Reports were made of a strong chlorine smell coming from the river. A 100-meter section of the river below Auburn 
Road was surveyed and a total of 133 fish were counted, mostly white suckers, creek chubs, and blacknose dace. Both incidents are still being investigated.
The Pontiac Waste Water Treatment Plant (WWTP) is located on the Clinton River approximately 4 miles above the location of the dead fish. It is unclear if the WWTP was a contributor to either fish kill.​


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## the rapids (Nov 17, 2005)

DE82 said:


> The second part of my post also said I've caught fish too small to be plants and too big to be plants. The smallest they plant fish in is 4inches, I've caught rainbows and browns under 3.


FYI the sizes they report on the website are averages, so just because it says the size is x inches and you catch one smaller than x does not mean it is natural, just means it is smaller than the average of the few planters that they measured. some are always going to be larger and smaller too.



DE82 said:


> I spend as much time as anybody on the paint and clinton in the last 3-4 seasons and for somebody who always gets told how stupid and wrong I am, I seem to always catch a lot of fish and some good sized ones too  Good luck to all.


Troutangler86, de82 or whatever you call yourself these days, you are truly a legend.


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## the rapids (Nov 17, 2005)

fishmichv2-

Nice fish pics, glad to see someone catching nice ones out of the paint (and releasing them too). that fishery does have natural reproduction plus multiple year carryover and that is something we all can agree on. if anyone has seen the giants that the one guy feeds in his stretch of stream its pretty obvious they can live for a while in that stream.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

I have all of the proof that you need. Come on up to the UP and fish, the DNR plants very few steelhead up here. Yet the UP has one of the best fisheries in the state. Must be some natural reproduction going on because we get little help from the DNR. They are too busy messing up our deer hunting to actually plant a fish or do something good up here.


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## FishMichv2 (Oct 18, 2004)

thanks for all the comments guys but i must put a stop to this. you are all ranting and raving about a couple trout that werent even caught in the watershed you are ranting about. a 15+ inch brown from the paint or clinton isnt too extraordinary but thats not where this fish came from.

in regards to the clinton/paint however, all i will say is if the plantings were to stop, the fishable numbers would eventually be non existent. im sure the fish spawn and some probably with some success but conditions arent perfect and one hot/dry summer could seriously hurt the population. that being said however, im all for catch and release for a number of reasons. i also say i hope they continue to plant.
i havent hit the paint yet this year but i plan to very soon.


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## TroutSeeker71 (Mar 24, 2008)

FishMich, I believe I know what creek you are talking about (according to your hometown). I started fishing it a few years ago and every trip I have caught healthy, well-colored 14+ browns. Holdovers or reproducers, I find these bigger fish are well away from the bridge planting sites.

By the way, if you were the landowner I had some words with this past weekend, thank you for listening to my explanation of the access law and letting me continue fishing in peace.

PM me if needed.


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## 1styearff (Mar 3, 2010)

just wanted to chime in and say nice fish!


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