# Cabin heat options



## Shevrolay (Jan 15, 2014)

My wife and I are in the process of purchasing a small cabin in Crawford county. It is about 650 sq feet and pretty much all open inside with low ceilings. The sellers only stayed there in the summer time and had no need for a permanent heat source. We will be using it mainly for deer hunting and ice fishing and would like to put in some type of permanent, likely propane, heat source. We like 3 hours away and I want something to give me the piece of mind that the pipes will not freeze up on me when we’re at home. (Is like to set it at 40-45 when I leave) I’d also like something that will still run in the event of a power outage. All that I am really seeing are the ventless wall heaters or a regular house furnace. Is something like that going to be my best bet or are there better options out there? Thanks in advance guys. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

It all depends on the condition of the cabin including electrical. Powering it down and draining the pipes is the safest route. If everything is code compliant then a furnace or vent free (assuming it's installed correctly and the size matches your cabin) is safe to leave unattended. But the vent free vents into the cabin and CO can build up. 

It sounds perfect for a wood stove by the way.


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## big show (Sep 10, 2007)

There are vented wall heaters available that require no electricity. Williams and housewarmer are two brands.

A couple gas lights would provide enough heat for the cool fall weekends also. They are more efficient than the heater. 

I would drain the water system before you leave. It isn’t hard to do.


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## Shevrolay (Jan 15, 2014)

Nostromo said:


> It all depends on the condition of the cabin including electrical. Powering it down and draining the pipes is the safest route. If everything is code compliant then a furnace or vent free (assuming it's installed correctly and the size matches your cabin) is safe to leave unattended. But the vent free vents into the cabin and CO can build up.
> 
> It sounds perfect for a wood stove by the way.



I'm sure ill be reinstalling a woodstove for supplemental heat soon. There is a spot where one used to be but it was removed for some reason. Probably lack of space..


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## junkman (Jan 14, 2010)

I used a ventless type wall unit in a cabin of about the same size.I would leave it set on low when I left and leave a ceiling fan on low just to keep the heat even.It would keep the cabin above freezing.


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## junkman (Jan 14, 2010)

Find out if natural gas is available to you.It is so much better than propane.


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## Shevrolay (Jan 15, 2014)

junkman said:


> Find out if natural gas is available to you.It is so much better than propane.


Unfortunately, it is not.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

Draining the pipes is way easier.

Wood in the winter with a supplemental propane wall mount.

You are describing a convenience problem not a frozen pipe problem.
Convenience is expensive in the woods.


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## kroppe (May 7, 2000)

Is electric baseboard heat plus a standby propane generator an option?


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## perchjerker (Feb 8, 2002)

I have a regular furnace. And a wood stove for when we are there. We snowmobile so we use the place year round.

I have a cell signal based device called Sherlock. It will alert me if the power goes off, if the temps (or humidity) get out out of the range I set. it will even take a pic if I want it to

So if something happens I know right away with a text and email and can act accordingly. I get the basic service its like $12 for 3 months


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## big buck 75 (Sep 6, 2010)

Perchjerker is giving good info. All furnaces and heaters can fail with or without a power outage, having the knowledge that something happened allows you to taAlso before putting in a woodstove in check with your insurance company to make sure they will accept it. Make sure it is installed correctly so it will pass inspection and you don't have to do it twice. Also I always felt it was a good idea to turn the breaker to the pump off, in the event a pipe breaks the water doesn't continue to run.


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## grapestomper (Jan 9, 2012)

We have a new fangled fuel oil burner at camp. 
Works great. It is just gravity feed. No fan. 
No power required. 
We also use wood when there steady.


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

We had a ventless propane wall heater in our cabin and after a while the windows start sweating and everything seemed damp .I was worried it would start to smell musty so we took it out .I have a small wood burner now but our insurance co charges $100 wood burner charge per year .Something to ponder .Our water is shut off in the winter .


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## perchjerker (Feb 8, 2002)

yeah I should have mentioned we always turn the breaker off for the well pump and drain everything in the winter. I have compressed air setup for doing that

As Thirty said the ventless heaters throw off a lot of moisture.


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## Forest Meister (Mar 7, 2010)

grapestomper said:


> We have a new fangled fuel oil burner at camp.
> Works great. It is just gravity feed. No fan.
> No power required.
> We also use wood when there steady.


New fangled? What is old is now new. We have been using one of those for decades. Only problem with out old one is that there is no thermostat to compensate for extreme temperatures. Does you new fangled one have some sort of temp control? FM


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## DigitalGuru (Feb 25, 2019)

Here is that Sherlock device: https://housesetter.com/


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## perchjerker (Feb 8, 2002)

thanks sorry I should have put up a link to it.


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## grapestomper (Jan 9, 2012)

Forest Meister said:


> New fangled? What is old is now new. We have been using one of those for decades. Only problem with out old one is that there is no thermostat to compensate for extreme temperatures. Does you new fangled one have some sort of temp control? FM


It has a dial to pick your temperature. 
It is not a thermostat. My heater is way smaller and more efficient than the old beast i used to have. They do make units now that have a thermostat that do not require electricity. 
They look like glass door wood stoves. Price for the new units is around $1800
I would not trade my fuel burner for anything. 
No moisture in the camp from propane. Simple to use and a 100 gallons of fuel does me for most of a year.


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## jjlrrw (May 1, 2006)

DigitalGuru said:


> Here is that Sherlock device: https://housesetter.com/





Shevrolay said:


> My wife and I are in the process of purchasing a small cabin in Crawford county. It is about 650 sq feet and pretty much all open inside with low ceilings. The sellers only stayed there in the summer time and had no need for a permanent heat source. We will be using it mainly for deer hunting and ice fishing and would like to put in some type of permanent, likely propane, heat source. We like 3 hours away and I want something to give me the piece of mind that the pipes will not freeze up on me when we’re at home. (Is like to set it at 40-45 when I leave) I’d also like something that will still run in the event of a power outage. All that I am really seeing are the ventless wall heaters or a regular house furnace. Is something like that going to be my best bet or are there better options out there? Thanks in advance guys.
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


That sherlock is interesting, we have next to no cell service at our cabin... Your cabin sounds about the size of our first, along the back wall is where the water came in, to kitchen sink, then to bath. I picked up a small air compressor mounted it under the sink and plumbed it into the water lines, when we left I could winterize it in about 5 minutes, when we arrive just had to flip a switch and close a valve and had running water. Adding a furnace will not be ideal size, cold air return and duct work, plus the fans are loud in a small area. We had a ventless propane wall heater we would use for a few hours max when we arrived I would not trust them over night they are venting something. Also had a pellet stove, a little costly to run and that take some time to heat up, very good at maintaining once warmed up. One thing to look out for if you keep the heat on, if there is a snow load and your attic is not vented correctly you may arrive to a mess.


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## perchjerker (Feb 8, 2002)

Yeah cell signal is good for us. We have a tower nearby.


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## kroppe (May 7, 2000)

On the the topic of cell signal, I have had success with a Wilson booster. A signal is needed in the first place, of course.


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

I'm also a big advocate of blowing out the lines every time I leave in the winter. My place has standard water lines and water heater (meaning there was no thought put into blowing out the lines when it was constructed) and blowing everything out including a dishwasher takes 45 minutes. It's worth the piece of mind not worrying about the power going out, or the furnace failing while I'm gone. Not to mention the large amount of money I save in propane. 

Having a wifi enabled thermostat allows me to take the edge off by having the place heated up when I get there.


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## Forest Meister (Mar 7, 2010)

grapestomper said:


> It has a dial to pick your temperature.
> It is not a thermostat. My heater is way smaller and more efficient than the old beast i used to have. They do make units now that have a thermostat that do not require electricity.
> They look like glass door wood stoves. Price for the new units is around $1800
> I would not trade my fuel burner for anything.
> No moisture in the camp from propane. Simple to use and a 100 gallons of fuel does me for most of a year.


I have been thinking propane but my new camp is so far off the beaten path that fuel oil would be more practical than trying to get the propane truck back in (and maybe stuck). I could haul fuel oil myself if I had to. What brand stove do you have FM


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

Steve said:


> I'm also a big advocate of blowing out the lines every time I leave in the winter. My place has standard water lines and water heater (meaning there was no thought put into blowing out the lines when it was constructed) and blowing everything out including a dishwasher takes 45 minutes. It's worth the piece of mind not worrying about the power going out, or the furnace failing while I'm gone. Not to mention the large amount of money I save in propane.
> 
> Having a wifi enabled thermostat allows me to take the edge off by having the place heated up when I get there.


Look into a tankless water heater. When I built our house here the first year we used a ventless heater that had a themostat on it when we were here. After plumbing things ion we bought a small tankless water heater. The nice part about it was it sure did speed up things when I drained the lines. We still use the ventless heater yet today just in spring or fall. I have a CO detector and it has never went off and we do not have a problem with moisture. This heater is either a 25000 or 30000 BTU and we could keep the house at 70 degrees when it was -20 outside before I installed wood heat


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## miruss (Apr 18, 2003)

Forest Meister said:


> I have been thinking propane but my new camp is so far off the beaten path that fuel oil would be more practical than trying to get the propane truck back in (and maybe stuck). I could haul fuel oil myself if I had to. What brand stove do you have FM


Depending on how much your up there you could get a couple 100# tanks and hook them up 2 at a time & keep a couple as back up. Then just take to town to fill up .Thats what we did at our camp you would be surprised how long 200#'s last.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

I found a source of heat once the Secretary of War hit menopause


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## Forest Meister (Mar 7, 2010)

miruss said:


> Depending on how much your up there you could get a couple 100# tanks and hook them up 2 at a time & keep a couple as back up. Then just take to town to fill up .Thats what we did at our camp you would be surprised how long 200#'s last.


Thanks for the suggestion but that is what I use now. Part of the problem is that the places to get them filled want them transported standing up. Cannot do that with the cap on my truck. Also, my local propane company wants fifteen bucks to rent each 100# tank if you don't fill it annually so spares get expensive. 

I am looking for something I can keep on low from about this time of year until after deer season so that when I go out to work or hunt I don't have to wait a couple hours for things to start to warm up. FM


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## MossyHorns (Apr 14, 2011)

Scout 2 said:


> Look into a tankless water heater. When I built our house here the first year we used a ventless heater that had a themostat on it when we were here. After plumbing things ion we bought a small tankless water heater. The nice part about it was it sure did speed up things when I drained the lines. We still use the ventless heater yet today just in spring or fall. I have a CO detector and it has never went off and we do not have a problem with moisture. This heater is either a 25000 or 30000 BTU and we could keep the house at 70 degrees when it was -20 outside before I installed wood heat


We have always had a propane water heater that has a pilot. We never drain it, because the pilot will keep the water hot enough to take a shower.


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

Forest Meister said:


> Thanks for the suggestion but that is what I use now. Part of the problem is that the places to get them filled want them transported standing up. Cannot do that with the cap on my truck. Also, my local propane company wants fifteen bucks to rent each 100# tank if you don't fill it annually so spares get expensive.
> 
> I am looking for something I can keep on low from about this time of year until after deer season so that when I go out to work or hunt I don't have to wait a couple hours for things to start to warm up. FM


Best way to go is buy a 120 gal or 300 gal tank then shop around for the best price on gas.


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

MossyHorns said:


> We have always had a propane water heater that has a pilot. We never drain it, because the pilot will keep the water hot enough to take a shower.


Ours was a 30 gal with pilot and I did not trust to leave it full after deer season so we drained it every time. Once I went with the tankless one we would have hot water as soon as it was turned on. Ours that we had at that time was to small for the water demands we had when we moved here full time so I installed a 40 gal one. The neighbors across the road just built a very big pole barn and fixed the back half up tolive in while they are here. They installed a whole house tankless water heater that is elec and this this is only about 12 inches sq. He said they have more than enough hot water while using it


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## Eric Bee (Sep 10, 2012)

Scout 2 said:


> Ours was a 30 gal with pilot and I did not trust to leave it full after deer season so we drained it every time. Once I went with the tankless one we would have hot water as soon as it was turned on. Ours that we had at that time was to small for the water demands we had when we moved here full time so I installed a 40 gal one. The neighbors across the road just built a very big pole barn and fixed the back half up tolive in while they are here. They installed a whole house tankless water heater that is elec and this this is only about 12 inches sq. He said they have more than enough hot water while using it


What is cost of a tankless system vs conventional? Seems like a lot more money for limited usage


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## bucko12pt (Dec 9, 2004)

Shevrolay said:


> My wife and I are in the process of purchasing a small cabin in Crawford county. It is about 650 sq feet and pretty much all open inside with low ceilings. The sellers only stayed there in the summer time and had no need for a permanent heat source. We will be using it mainly for deer hunting and ice fishing and would like to put in some type of permanent, likely propane, heat source. We like 3 hours away and I want something to give me the piece of mind that the pipes will not freeze up on me when we’re at home. (Is like to set it at 40-45 when I leave) I’d also like something that will still run in the event of a power outage. All that I am really seeing are the ventless wall heaters or a regular house furnace. Is something like that going to be my best bet or are there better options out there? Thanks in advance guys.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app



My cabin is about the size of yours and in spring and fall, I heat it with a small electric ceramic heater. I also have a free standing vented propane fireplace which heats it adequately in colder weather. I drain and close my cabin after hunting season, so don’t have need for heat after that. My fireplace has a pilot which I leave on and surprisingly it takes the chill off, so it’s pretty easy to bring up to temp in an hour, or so.

If it were me and I was going to run it all winter, I’d probably install a vented
Wall furnace. You’d have to plan on filling your tank, once, or twice over the winyet if you were going to keep it heated. I could never get a truck in in the winter to fill my tank. 

In your situation, I’d drain it every time I left, unless you plan on using it every week.


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## Scott K (Aug 26, 2008)

Shevrolay said:


> like to set it at 40-45 when I leave


This low would make me nervous. I've always heard 50 is the lowest you should go.


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## jjlrrw (May 1, 2006)

Eric Bee said:


> What is cost of a tankless system vs conventional? Seems like a lot more money for limited usage


It can be less expensive, the last two cabins we put in a eccotemp LP tankless, cost about $165 included the vent kit, mounted above the toilet on the wall so didn't take up any space.  First cabin 7 years current cabin 3 years no problems. We blow the lines every time we leave in the winter.


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## jjlrrw (May 1, 2006)

Forest Meister said:


> Thanks for the suggestion but that is what I use now. Part of the problem is that the places to get them filled want them transported standing up. Cannot do that with the cap on my truck. Also, my local propane company wants fifteen bucks to rent each 100# tank if you don't fill it annually so spares get expensive.
> 
> I am looking for something I can keep on low from about this time of year until after deer season so that when I go out to work or hunt I don't have to wait a couple hours for things to start to warm up. FM


If there is winter access for a propane truck check with a local company, in our area they put it a 120 gallon, no permit required and no cost for the tank if you use >250 gallons a year, if not there is a $30 fee.


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## deepwoods (Nov 18, 2002)

I recently put in an Empire propane vented furnace and Keep my place open all year. Just turn it down when we leave. It keeps everything toasty and I even have the one with the visible flame. It is actually pretty nice to watch since we don't have a fireplace. I have an little electric heater in my cellar where my pressure tank is along with pex plumbing. Manufacture says it works without power. Like mentioned I keep a ceiling fan on low to circulate the heat. I also added insulation to my attic.

I like the ability to turn it up when we show up and not have to wait a long time for the chill to be gone. More so my wife.


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## perchjerker (Feb 8, 2002)

Do you have a way to know if the power goes out when you are not there?

Oh I see it doesnt need power

missed that part

thats a nice option. Key here is its vented

I still highly recommend a device like Sherlock if you are within cell signal range. If your heating system malfunctions you will know it.


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## miruss (Apr 18, 2003)

Forest Meister said:


> Thanks for the suggestion but that is what I use now. Part of the problem is that the places to get them filled want them transported standing up. Cannot do that with the cap on my truck. Also, my local propane company wants fifteen bucks to rent each 100# tank if you don't fill it annually so spares get expensive.
> 
> I am looking for something I can keep on low from about this time of year until after deer season so that when I go out to work or hunt I don't have to wait a couple hours for things to start to warm up. FM


I know about the filling part we just take a small trailer ( toy hauler)with sides and strap them in standing up with 2-3 different straps. Never even though about renting a tank that size we just bought ours used wasn't to bad hell new ones are only 150 or so. By the time you get a NEW furnace, tank get switched around bet you will have more then that


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## grapestomper (Jan 9, 2012)

Forest Meister said:


> I have been thinking propane but my new camp is so far off the beaten path that fuel oil would be more practical than trying to get the propane truck back in (and maybe stuck). I could haul fuel oil myself if I had to. What brand stove do you have FM


I will need to check the brand name. I just brought the manual back to camp and can't remember the name.


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

Eric Bee said:


> What is cost of a tankless system vs conventional? Seems like a lot more money for limited usage


It is a lot more. But look at how much less gas or elec you will use and my biggest factor for going this way itsaved me from draining a full tank of hot water when we used this lace on the weekends in the winter. Then that whole tank had to be reheated and refill when we got here. With the tankless one we had you light the pilot and you have instant hot water. Whatever type water heater you buy make sure it has a stainless burner unit. The cast ones rusts and plug up the hole where the gas goes out. If you do buy a tankless one get your house and usage sized so it will be big enough


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