# AK-47 for Michigan whitetails



## Buc Mark (Sep 1, 2010)

I currently have an AR-15 that I use for deer hunting, and am considering buying an AK-47 to use instead. Which would be best for deer hunting in Michigan? All comments and comparisons would be welcome!


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## anon12192013aazz (Dec 10, 2010)

The AK47 fires the 7.62x39 cartridge, which is comparable to the classic 30-30, in terms of power. Because it typically fires a smaller projectile that isn't as well-designed for terminal performance, it is not as efficient in dropping deer in their tracks. Also, the typical AK47 is not terribly accurate, making it a liability for longer distance shots.

The semi-auto function of the AK47, or AR15, is of little value in hunting non-dangerous big game. All in all, you'd be far better served with a more powerful cartridge and a more accurate gun. If you really like the idea of hunting with a semi-auto, the R15, from Remington, is quite a bit more accurate and the 30 Remington AR cartridge is somewhat more powerful than the 7.62x39. A boring old 30-06, in just about any bolt-action you can find, is a far better choice, all-around.

The longer I have hunted, the more I have enjoyed single-shot rifles, like the Contender, Encore and H&R Handi-rifle. In a big game hunting scenario, it is almost always the first shot that matters, not the 5th of 6th.


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

Buc Mark said:


> I currently have an AR-15 that I use for deer hunting, and am considering buying an AK-47 to use instead. Which would be best for deer hunting in Michigan? All comments and comparisons would be welcome!


 
I wouldn't consider either one to be a "good" whitetail rifle although I know several guys that use their AR-15's to hunt with. Not really a problem with the guns themselves, as long as they are capable of decent accuracy, it's more an issue of the available ammunition for either one. A .223 has a very lightweight bullet traveling at high speed and the bullets are normally designed for targets or smaller sized game. What works perfectly on a coyote, often times will not get the needed penetration on a whitetail especially if you hit the shoulder bones. My friends that use them limit their shot selection to address this problem, and I've helped track way too many "well hit" animals that the centerfire .22's didn't do the job well enough to put the animal down in a timely fashion.

The AK-47, as you probably know, is an infantry weapon and most of the available cartridges will be military surplus. This ammo has plenty of punch to kill a deer inside 150 yards or so, but the bullets aren't designed to expand, which is a necessary function in order to impart the hydrostatic shock for a clean kill. If you can find an actual "game load" for this caliber it would be OK to use. Ballistically, it is about on par with a .30-30.

I'd say for around $200 you should be able to find a decent used rifle that would be a little better option for whitetails around here.


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## Sib (Jan 8, 2003)

Not sure on AK, but SKS, which shoot 7.62x39 (same as AK) can have feed issues with ammo other than fmj, fmj would not be an ammo I choose for hunting. 

Personally, it seems silly to pay more for a "cheap" rat-tat gun if the gun is to be used for hunting, when you can get a new tack driving bolt, like a Savage or Weatherby for same or less.


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## uptracker (Jul 27, 2004)

I think somebody got ahold of a Dunham's flyer...


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## ferd66 (Oct 13, 2007)

Not sure I'd buy one just for deer hunting, but I wouldn't hesitate to use an AK if you already have one. I carry my Saiga 7.62x39 when I plan on walking a lot or for a brush gun. They do make good soft point ammo.


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

While I would not buy either exclusively as a deer rifle, if use for deer hunting is 1 - 5% and the other 95% of it's use is going to be plinking and target shooting, then either can be very fun rifles to own and with the right bullet selection, both will work fine for just about any Michigan deer hunting application. 

If your shots are going to be 150 yards or under, go with the AK and use Cor-bon 150 gr. soft points. Muzzle velocity of 2,300 Feet per second with 1,765 ft. lbs of energy is going to drop any whitetail in Michigan if you shoot accurately. 

Just be sure you are using a mag with legal capacity.


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## moebedda (Nov 8, 2007)

I'm with you. I have an AR and would love to hunt with it, but I can't justify it when I have a .308 and a .270 bolt rifle. .223 simply doesn't have the knock down that my .308 has. Buy an AR style in .308, or you can buy different uppers that will work on the AR-15 lower. Here is a list of all of the uppers that you can buy for your AR-15 lower.

22
204 ruger
223/5.56x45
5.7x28
223wsm
243wsm 
25wsm
6.5 grendel
6.8spc 
7.62x39
30AR
450bushmaster
458scocom
50beowulf


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## MOTOMAN91 (Oct 26, 2010)

I thought .223 caliber was illegal to use for deer hunting in michingan because it's a 22 caliber. I thought it had to be .243 or bigger. Am i wrong???


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## HTC (Oct 6, 2005)

If you get one with a bayonette you can leave your Schrade/Buck Knife/Old Timer at home thereby saving weight allowing you to range further from the truck to where the big boys live.


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

MOTOMAN91 said:


> I thought .223 caliber was illegal to use for deer hunting in michingan because it's a 22 caliber. I thought it had to be .243 or bigger. Am i wrong???


Yes, you are wrong. Any centerfire cartridge is legal for deer in Michigan in the appropriate zone.


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

Munsterlndr said:


> Yes, you are wrong. Any centerfire cartridge is legal for deer in Michigan in the appropriate zone.


Do you know if at one time the law used to state "6mm/.243" for minimum caliber? I know it states "centerfire cartridge .22 caliber or larger" and has for the last several years, but for some reason the .243 minimum keeps coming back to me when I think about it. I honestly don't know where the connection is coming from. Maybe I'm just losing it.:sad:


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## Maniac-TP (Aug 18, 2011)

Ak-47? Really, im more of a traditional guy. I rather use a bolt action 30-06. If you cant kill a deer with one clean shot, you shouldnt hunt with that type of weapon. I think semi-auto weapons for hunting is ridiculous and lazy. Sorry dont mean to offend just my opinion guys.


=TP


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## delloro (Aug 31, 2007)

MOTOMAN91 said:


> I thought .223 caliber was illegal to use for deer hunting in michingan because it's a 22 caliber. I thought it had to be .243 or bigger. Am i wrong???


If you decide on the AK, make sure it comes with optics rail on the side. All other ak mounts are worse.

ARs are great, but an upper by itself will cost more than an AK with a scope.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

Maniac-TP said:


> Ak-47? Really, im more of a traditional guy. I rather use a bolt action 30-06. If you cant kill a deer with one clean shot, you shouldnt hunt with that type of weapon. I think semi-auto weapons for hunting is ridiculous and lazy. Sorry dont mean to offend just my opinion guys.
> 
> 
> =TP


:lol: So all of those grandfathers of ours that were out there over 100 years ago whacking deer and bear with their Remington Model 8's were being ridiculous and lazy? :lol:

Remington model 8, first went into production in 1906.

















What is ridiculous is ascribing any significance to the type of weapon that someone takes into the woods to hunt with. If it's legal, it's legal and that should be the end of it.


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

jatc said:


> Do you know if at one time the law used to state "6mm/.243" for minimum caliber? I know it states "centerfire cartridge .22 caliber or larger" and has for the last several years, but for some reason the .243 minimum keeps coming back to me when I think about it. I honestly don't know where the connection is coming from. Maybe I'm just losing it.:sad:


I don't think there has ever been a caliber limitation on centerfire cartridges in Michigan, I looked through the DNR regulations history page and didn't see any indication that the law changed at some point.


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## anon12192013aazz (Dec 10, 2010)

The game agency in most states is wise enough to prohibit 22 caliber rifles being used for big game, regardless of whether they are rimfire or centerfire. This is not because the cartridges are incapable of killing a big game animal quickly and humanely, it is because they leave very little margin for error, and many hunters make small errors in shot placement when under duress. About the only redeeming factor in rounds like the 223, 22-250 and 220 Swift being legal for deer, is that they give younger shooters an option with almost no recoil concerns. 

Personally, I would only use such cartridges if I was hand-loading premium bullets of relatively heavy weight. I'd much rather stick with a 243 or larger, since recoil still isn't a problem. Even my 12 year-old daughter started out hunting with a 44/40 and stout handloads that made it kick about like a 30-30 with 150gr bullets.


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## Whitetail Freak (Nov 10, 2008)

My daughter turns 12 a couple days before nov 15 and will be using my dads mini 14 (223) on the 15th with premium ammo. Her farthest shot would be 75 yds + - and with a rest. If all goes well she will be owning a 243 for next yr.


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## Maniac-TP (Aug 18, 2011)

Chill out history major, i said thats my opinion...i meant traditional in a way as in like 1970-present. I dont like hunting with assualt rifles...jeez a week and a half of this forum and i already hate it. Is this how you get paying members by nit picking and trying to be smarter than everyone jeez...


=TP


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

Maniac-TP said:


> Chill out history major, i said thats my opinion...i meant traditional in a way as in like 1970-present. I dont like hunting with assualt rifles...jeez a week and a half of this forum and i already hate it. Is this how you get paying members by nit picking and trying to be smarter than everyone jeez...
> 
> 
> =TP


Nit picking? You say that it's ridiculous to hunt with autoloaders and that people that do so are lazy and you want me to chill out? :lol:

If you don't like hunting with assault rifles, then don't hunt with one. 

The OP asked a legitimate question and instead of offering a substantive response you shared with us that hunting with a semi-auto is ridiculous and that you are lazy if you do so. I merely pointed out that hunters have been hunting with autoloaders for over a hundred years. 

Sometimes I hunt with a single shot. Sometimes with a bolt action. Sometimes I hunt with a Ruger .44 magnum autoloader. So we should assume that on the days that I hunt with the Ruger, I'm being ridiculous and lazy but not on the others? 

Welcome to the forum but if you throw stones at people, don't be surprised if some get heaved back at you.


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## uptracker (Jul 27, 2004)

Maniac-TP said:


> Chill out history major, i said thats my opinion...i meant traditional in a way as in like 1970-present. I dont like hunting with assualt rifles...jeez a week and a half of this forum and i already hate it. Is this how you get paying members by nit picking and trying to be smarter than everyone jeez...
> 
> 
> =TP


Hahahahahahahahah....can't stop......hahahahahahahah....LMFAO!!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I tried using more smiley's, but I guess one is limited to 10!


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## Maniac-TP (Aug 18, 2011)

Did you miss the point in my reply where i stated that its my opinion and i dont mean to offend those? Guess not...


=TP


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## uptracker (Jul 27, 2004)

You need to retire for real Munster....like Hover-Round for real. Give it up...it's been a good journey. Just move on to reading Huck Fin or Hemmingway books while Days of Our Lives is on and cardinals are at your bird feeder out the back window while sipping tea and eating scones and smoking a premium pipe tobabcco out of a $300 Dr. Grabow pipe in you armchair with a cardigan on and tiny little glasses you can glare over when there's small children tooling around the house messing with your high class Chess set made from elephant ivory.

I know...you're gonna tell me I created a run on sentence which violates MLA policy via Section 14 Vol XII Para. 16 Sentence IXIII.


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## anon12192013aazz (Dec 10, 2010)

uptracker said:


> Hahahahahahahahah....can't stop......hahahahahahahah....LMFAO!!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> I tried using more smiley's, but I guess one is limited to 10!


You used to be able to use more than ten laughing smileys, but it seems "someone" was using them too liberally, so they implemented a 10-smiley rule. 

Someone has to bust the chops of the new guys...in this case, I'm not sure he didn't deserve it, to be honest. This is one of the few threads where our dog-loving friend had not been untoward with his opines. How ironic is it that he STILL managed to tick somebody off? :lol: :chillin:

(Sorry, I had to delete three of your laughing smileys, so I can add some of my own!)


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## Uncle Boopoo (Sep 15, 2008)

Maniac-TP said:


> Did you miss the point in my reply where i stated that its my opinion and i dont mean to offend those? Guess not...
> 
> 
> =TP


You gotta have thick skin to hang around these parts. They're just poking back at you. Dont take it to heart.


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## limige (Sep 2, 2005)

broom_jm said:


> The game agency in most states is wise enough to prohibit 22 caliber rifles being used for big game, regardless of whether they are rimfire or centerfire. This is not because the cartridges are incapable of killing a big game animal quickly and humanely, it is because they leave very little margin for error, and many hunters make small errors in shot placement when under duress. About the only redeeming factor in rounds like the 223, 22-250 and 220 Swift being legal for deer, is that they give younger shooters an option with almost no recoil concerns.
> 
> Personally, I would only use such cartridges if I was hand-loading premium bullets of relatively heavy weight. I'd much rather stick with a 243 or larger, since recoil still isn't a problem. Even my 12 year-old daughter started out hunting with a 44/40 and stout handloads that made it kick about like a 30-30 with 150gr bullets.


Fyi I have hunted with a 22-250 since I started rifle hunting. Its dead accurate and lack of recoil make for more shots on target and less flinching issues or bullet drop issues. If you take your shots in an ethical manner you will never have a problem. 
No its not having to pick your shots any more than with any other gun rather be patient and wait for the clear shot that will give a clean kill. You don't have to be an expert shot. Heck I never used to target practice and have lost extremely few deer. The only ones lost were extreme range or a flushed animal on the run. Take quartering heart shots, lung shots or neck shots and you'll always have you deer with that gun.


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## CarnageProductions13 (Mar 11, 2011)

I shot my first deer with a ruger 7.62 39mm. Busted through both shoulders leaving a half dollar sized hole on the way out. The deer didn't make it 10 yards.

The AK has bad accuracy though lol reliable though. If you HAVE to pick one go with the AR-15


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## anon12192013aazz (Dec 10, 2010)

limige said:


> Fyi I have hunted with a 22-250 since I started rifle hunting. Its dead accurate and lack of recoil make for more shots on target and less flinching issues or bullet drop issues. If you take your shots in an ethical manner you will never have a problem.
> No its not having to pick your shots any more than with any other gun rather be patient and wait for the clear shot that will give a clean kill. You don't have to be an expert shot. Heck I never used to target practice and have lost extremely few deer. The only ones lost were extreme range or a flushed animal on the run. Take quartering heart shots, lung shots or neck shots and you'll always have you deer with that gun.


I've hunted with a 270 Winchester since I started rifle hunting. It's dead accurate and the recoil has never kept me from keeping shots on target. It doesn't make me flinch and the bullets it shoots do not drop any more than yours do. I take only ethical shots, but this is about where the similarities end.

To say, "you will never have a problem" is naive. You have had problems yourself, when taking long-range shots or shots on flushed game. With a hot 22, most hunters will concede that they DO have to pick their shots a little more carefully. It is a small bullet, with relatively little mass and a low sectional density. It WILL kill a deer, if placed correctly, but there simply isn't as much margin for error.

You close by saying, "Take quartering heart shots, lung shots or neck shots and you'll always have you deer with that gun." Hunt big game long enough and you'll omit words like "never" and "always" from your vocabulary, regardless of what caliber or cartridge you hunt with. 

The 7.62x39 is a marginal deer cartridge, but it will get the job done, just like the centerfire 22's. There are many cartridges out there that are far better for the task at hand.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

Maniac-TP said:


> Ak-47? Really, im more of a traditional guy. I rather use a bolt action 30-06. If you cant kill a deer with one clean shot, you shouldnt hunt with that type of weapon. I think semi-auto weapons for hunting is ridiculous and lazy. Sorry dont mean to offend just my opinion guys.
> 
> 
> =TP


I don't see where the type of action should make any difference. Why don't we just make a law that says only single shot and one bullet?


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

Maniac-TP said:


> Chill out history major, i said thats my opinion...i meant traditional in a way as in like 1970-present. *I dont like hunting with assualt rifles.*..jeez a week and a half of this forum and i already hate it. Is this how you get paying members by nit picking and trying to be smarter than everyone jeez...
> 
> 
> =TP


An assault rifle is a selective fire rifle capable of semi-auto and fully automatic fire. Full auto is illegal to use in Michigan for hunting so they are not used.


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## Dom (Sep 19, 2002)

broom_jm said:


> I've hunted with a 270 Winchester since I started rifle hunting. It's dead accurate and the recoil has never kept me from keeping shots on target. It doesn't make me flinch and the bullets it shoots do not drop any more than yours do. I take only ethical shots, but this is about where the similarities end.
> 
> To say, "you will never have a problem" is naive. You have had problems yourself, when taking long-range shots or shots on flushed game. With a hot 22, most hunters will concede that they DO have to pick their shots a little more carefully. It is a small bullet, with relatively little mass and a low sectional density. It WILL kill a deer, if placed correctly, but there simply isn't as much margin for error.
> 
> ...


Well said broom_jm, +1 to your comments.

Just because it is "legal" does not mean it makes senser or you should do it. I could come up with a lot of legal stuff that would make anyone doing it look like a clown, they may be legal but OMG what for? Just to say it's legal? There are limitations not only to using a 223 . . . but I'll stop while I'm ahead  Waidmannsheil, Dom.


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## unclecbass (Sep 29, 2005)

buy a remmington r 25, got your modern ar style rifle with a better round for deer hunting, IMO. Not that I dont enjoy plinking with my ak and sks but I take hunting more seriously that hitting the woods with my refurbished eastern european war relics.


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## sNeAkYpEtE11 (Feb 7, 2011)

I'm with TP on this one, if you want to use a combat gun deer hunting I would suggest staying inside on opening day and continue playing Call of Duty on the big screen. Are you part of population control or something? Is this what hunting is coming too? I'm a firm believer in use what you wish but what happened to pulling your grandpas old 30-30 lever out of the gun case the night before opening day? Now thats a real mans gun and it gets my heart pounding just thinking about. We got asian dudes mowing other hunters down with a AK and there still allowed as a hunting rifle in michigan WTH? I know I know its the guy not the gun we all know that but still look at the connection. You guys do what you please but for me and all the hunters I know, we wouldn't let you out of the cabin. Just tell you to hang that thing back on the wall next to all your samurai swords and throwing knives and grab the 308 out of the gun cabinet. Good luck with your debate TP stick to the fishing threads I guess and be careful of getting "schooled" by the "pros"(haha) for throwing an opinion out there. SneakyP out


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## Ieatantlers (Oct 7, 2008)

uptracker said:


> You need to retire for real Munster....like Hover-Round for real. Give it up...it's been a good journey. Just move on to reading Huck Fin or Hemmingway books while Days of Our Lives is on and cardinals are at your bird feeder out the back window while sipping tea and eating scones and smoking a premium pipe tobabcco out of a $300 Dr. Grabow pipe in you armchair with a cardigan on and tiny little glasses you can glare over when there's small children tooling around the house messing with your high class Chess set made from elephant ivory.
> 
> I know...you're gonna tell me I created a run on sentence which violates MLA policy via Section 14 Vol XII Para. 16 Sentence IXIII.


:lol: I think that is my favorite line ever "like Hover-Round for real"


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

sNeAkYpEtE11 said:


> I'm with TP on this one, if you want to use a combat gun deer hunting I would suggest staying inside on opening day and continue playing Call of Duty on the big screen.


"Combat" gun? What country uses a semi-auto AR or AK as a combat gun? 

Shades of Jim Zumbo, his ignorant comments worked out pretty well for him, huh? :lol:


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## Maniac-TP (Aug 18, 2011)

The ak is a primary weapon the taliban use. Sure theirs are full-auto but still. Key word "ASSAULT" rifle...whats next RPG's for rabbit hunting.....


=TP


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## Skibum (Oct 3, 2000)

Munsterlndr said:


> "Combat" gun? What country uses a semi-auto AR or AK as a combat gun?
> 
> Shades of Jim Zumbo, his ignorant comments worked out pretty well for him, huh? :lol:


Guess he rules out a sportsterized 1903 Springfield as well:coco:

Personally I wouldn't use an AK because I don't like inaccurate rattletraps for hunting but as far as it being a military weapon I don't get it.


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## Skibum (Oct 3, 2000)

Maniac-TP said:


> The ak is a primary weapon the taliban use. Sure theirs are full-auto but still. Key word "ASSAULT" rifle...whats next RPG's for rabbit hunting.....
> 
> 
> =TP


By definition an assault rifle is capable of fully automatic fire. A legal AK here is a semi auto limited to a 5 round magazine if used while hunting. It's functionally no different that a Remington 742 or Browning BAR. it actually has less firepower because it is chambered for a much less powerful cartridge than those offered in civilian semi auto's.


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## BIGRICHARD (Aug 13, 2011)

Wow, I'm sure Buc Mark is glad he asked that question. This is quickly turning into a roast. Me and my trusty 870 are going back to where we belong, in the shotgun section of this warzone.:lol:


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## Sib (Jan 8, 2003)

Any you Polyannas have a problem with the .30-06, a round designed by the US military?


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