# What does it take??



## Bardo (Nov 7, 2005)

krob said:


> Do you only take monsters at your camp?
> Wow your camp is pretty strict, thats a harsh penelty.
> I can understadning not wanting to take bb's but i mean accidents do happen.


we take our fair shair of adult does and less often, 8 points or better. We simply set the rules in our camp up front and expect people to adhere to them after being informed (inclued guest and members). Regrettably, our neighbors do not adhere to this disipline and blam everything. That is out of my control; I can only control the things on my side of the fence and those are our agreed-to rules. Seems stupid to have rules if there is no consequense if/when you break them. Plus, a nice filet and $50 bottle of wine takes some of the sting out of losing one buck on the property before its time, dont you think? Too bad there is no Ruth Chris's (sp?) anywhere nearby.


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## krob (Dec 11, 2003)

You're exactly right your place your rules. Im not questioning that, But with rules your installing at your camp you are taking 10 pt's or better every year right? Or is the rule in place more so you can look forward to a good steak every so often?


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Bardo, I agree with the BB issue as well, but education is the key...use it has an oppurtunity to teach them.

I do have a question though....you don't happen to live in _Oalnad _ county do you?


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## Bardo (Nov 7, 2005)

krob said:


> You're exactly right your place your rules. Im not questioning that, But with rules your installing at your camp you are taking 10 pt's or better every year right? Or is the rule in place more so you can look forward to a good steak every so often?


We take a larger deer every so often, probably just like everbody else. With the neighbors not doing QDM, its tuff to get bucks beyong 2.5 years of age and beyond a "basket 8". Still, we do our part to that degrre we control.

As for a good steak, most of the local grub joints dont have anything on the menu beyond $20. Some have a good wine list ($50 tops). However, when it's free, a $20 filet can taste OK. You have to remember, there's alot of good natured ribbing going on during the meal. But when it comes time for the check, nobody takes out a calculator. It's "give it to the fellow over there who is grinding his teeth and looks sunburnt"


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## msb (Apr 25, 2005)

jme said:


> Seems to me it comes down to the standards that you set for yourself. If you want more and larger bucks you must pass on BBs and small-racked males. If you just want a deer, anything legal will do. In fact, if you're in the latter group, getting a BB probably improves your hunting since more does are available to bear more fawns for next year's hunt. Personally, I'm kind of between these two groups, I want a deer but I've gotten enough that I don't need to shoot the first one. But if the freezer is empty and it's getting late in the season, if it's brown it's down. While I've not shot a BB in many years I don't have a problem with those who do. One thing I would like to see changed is that if/when you shoot a BB you MUST tag it with a buck tag if you have one. FWIW, John-Ypsi.


AMEN! Sorry guys....thursday evening and I had 2 come out and decided I wasn't going home without meat. Perfect broadside at 30 yards and i knew it was a small deer but didn't see nubs. It turned out to be a bb but I dont feel bad. I have some meat which is better than none. I guess those of you who hunt private land can be picky but on state land...you better take, what you can, when you can, because tomorrow you may not see any.


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## heartstopper (Nov 10, 2005)

I would never harshly criticize some one who shot a button buck. My very first deer was a button buck, I shot it with a bow when I was 12. That little deer paved the path that my hunting obsession now walks down. There is nothing wrong with having a little fun with guy who shot the button buck, but kicking him out of camp? Not to mention your sons, daughters or grandchildren who hear a story of some one shooting a button buck and how horrible that person is. What if they were to kill a button buck? Should they feel less excitement, accomplishment and thrills because their deers PY score is 2". If you have set standards for your camp then that is one thing, but if there is no rules. Personaly, I will not shoot a button buck. If i'm hunting for meat i'll take a large doe, but there is nothing wrong for a first time hunter or an inexperienced one to take a button buck, maybe next year they will figure out the differences, but to turn the incredible experience of harvesting a deer into a fight between two adults, this is a lot more wrong that shooting a button buck.


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## devo024 (Nov 10, 2005)

I mistakenly took a bb this year, it was the first deer I saw for the year (when it was light, I saw a buck when it was still too dark to shoot) so I had a problem judgeing its size. It was also a good size yearling. I do feel bad about it, but I have taken enough ribbing from the other people in camp allready that I am now allmost scared to shoot something else. None of them were mad, it was just in good fun, but I saw other deer later and would not shoot. So according to some people, if I have trouble telling the difference, I shouldnt hunt? What about people brand new to hunting? Should we never have any new hunters unless they pass a test that they can tell the difference? I understand about the private land and its rules, my bb was taken on my brothers private land, where there is an 8pt rule. My brother understood my mistake and tried to help me figure out how to tell the difference. Mistakes are made, and not everyone knows it all about hunting. I can hope that I have learned how to tell the difference now, but if I make a mistake again next year should you string me up next to that little bb?


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## jk hillsdale (Dec 7, 2002)

Swamp Monster said:


> I do have a question though....you don't happen to live in _Oalnad _ county do you?


Yes Dorothy, there is an Oalnad County. Thou art a conspiracy theorist, Swamp Monster


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

Bardo said:


> You have to remember, there's alot of good natured ribbing going on during the meal. But when it comes time for the check, nobody takes out a calculator. It's "give it to the fellow over there who is grinding his teeth and looks sunburnt"


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

jk hillsdale said:


> Yes Dorothy, there is an Oalnad County. Thou art a conspiracy theorist, Swamp Monster



LOL! I gotta wonder. Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck....... :lol:


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## MuskyDan (Dec 27, 2001)

I am not criticizing the guys for shooting BBs, I am criticizing them for not knowing what they were shooting!!! If they truly did not want to kill a BB and were distraut about it when they found out what they shot then they were not being cautious about their hunting. I don't believe that there is such a thing as a mistake when it comes to hunting and especially shooting. Be sure of what you're shooting at before you pull the trigger. That is all I was saying, as far the killing of BBs I could care less. 

On November 14th I had 3 BBs walk by me at the same time I believe them all to be brothers. Anyway I have a clan of folks hunting next door with some pretty giant bait piles. These people make it apparent that they are going to be taking out some does. I just don't want to be at the recieving end of a slug!!!


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## PrtyMolusk (Aug 13, 2000)

Howdy-

It's a personal chioce. As long as it's within the boundries of the law, shoot whichever deer you want.

I won't tell you which one to take; please don't tell me which one to take...


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## slowpoke (Jan 30, 2001)

Bardo said:


> What does it take to drive it in people's heads that there is some thought process in shooting anterless deer? Yes, mistakes are made but I personally find it repulsive when a button buck is harvested.
> 
> There should be a renewed emphisis on teaching hunters how to dsitinguish between a fawn buck and a doe. Two guys at my camp shot two button bucks this weekend and all they had to say for themselves was "Aw shucks, I thought it was doe". Totally inexcusable IMO


 We put a fine on anyone in our camp that shoots a BB. Next year why not make it a $100 fine to anyone that shoots a BB. You can have dinner with it for everyone or put it back into the land. I'll bet that will stop most of the BB kills. It has on our land.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

I think it is a duck.


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## PrtyMolusk (Aug 13, 2000)

Howdy-



ESOX said:


> I think it is a duck.


Darn! And me without a waterfowl license.....


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## Bardo (Nov 7, 2005)

is no more. His spirit hath changed. So, feareth not!


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Bardo said:


> is no more. His spirit hath changed. So, feareth not!



 :lol: :lol:


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## PrtyMolusk (Aug 13, 2000)

Howdy-



Bardo said:


> is no more. His spirit hath changed. So, feareth not!


Next you'll be trying to sell us the Brooklyn Bridge...... :yikes: :lol:


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## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

quack quack quack - 

ferg....


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## Bob S (Mar 8, 2000)

devo024 said:


> I mistakenly took a bb this year,...
> 
> It was also a good size yearling.


I`ll bet a weeks wages you did not shoot a yearling. A yearling is an animal between 1 and 2 years of age. You shot a buck fawn.

I`m surprised farmlegend didn`t catch this faux paux.


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## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

Bob S said:


> I`m surprised farmlegend didn`t catch this faux paux.


And, I'll bet your no more 'surprised' than anyone else around here that FL, if he did catch it, didn't mention it....  :lol: 


ferg....

This game is tireing - LG.


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## jk hillsdale (Dec 7, 2002)

Ferg said:


> This game is tireing - LG.


What will be the end result, or one might say the denouement, of this game?

I think Swamp Monster deserves financial renumeration for his rapid BS detection. Maybe Lee's oft mentioned hunting partners would be willing to chip in.


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

Egad! I did miss it!

Had to point this out to one of my huntcamp guests this season, and I could tell it annoyed him. Too bad! Fawns are NOT yearlings!


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## Jx38 (Oct 17, 2004)

MuskyDan said:


> :rant: No, not the management forum!!!!! I agree totally. Whether they had the doe tag or not they didn't know what they were shooting when the pulled the trigger. That is generally BS and belongs in this forum. Shooting hen phesants, or hen turkeys is not acceptable and people can tell the difference. If you can't tell and you make a mistake like these guys admitted to than they are unsafe people to be firing weapons in the Michigan woods. That just stinks in my opinion, "it was dark I couldn't see the nubs!!!" They probably wouldn't have been able to see the people walking through the woods behind the them either. Should be booted from camp!!!!! :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant:


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

jk hillsdale said:


> What will be the end result, or one might say the denouement, of this game?
> 
> I think Swamp Monster deserves financial renumeration for his rapid BS detection. Maybe Lee's oft mentioned hunting partners would be willing to chip in.



LMAO!!! :lol: :lol: 
Invoices to follow......


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## jimmyboy (Jan 10, 2002)

And remember Lee's other brother Lefty? :yikes: Oalnad co.buds.


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## devo024 (Nov 10, 2005)

Bob S and FL, yes my mistake, see I learned something new today allready. It was a buck fawn, it weighed right about 100 pds after skinning.


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## abagwell (Oct 24, 2005)

Let me preface this by saying that I personally do not shoot "button bucks". However, there is no law that states you cannot. There is an ethical debate that many of us have been involved in and it seems most of us see eye to eye on. If a hunter chooses to take a "button" to fill a tag and put food on his table that is his choice. I hunt deer for the meat not the "trophy". I hunt within the laws. I personally do not have the property available to me that allows me to choose to shoot only deer with 4 points on a side.

Again, do not mis-understand me as I am not defending these hunters. But i do beleive that until a rule is put in place to not shoot "buttons" there will always be guys out there with doe permits and loaded weapons looking for meat.


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## jimmyboy (Jan 10, 2002)

abagwell,IMO the reason is that-they aren't doe permits.They are antlerless permits.I'd like to see them revert to doe permits.Then a buck fawn would require a buck tag.This would require hunters to scrutinize the differences and make certain the sex of the animal. Many will say that doing so will mean that buck fawns will be left in the field by those who fail to discriminate prior to shooting.My feeling as to this is that there will always be scofflaws and nothing will change that. THat's why we have CO's. The real problem to be overcome is one of changing the culture that has been established by legalizing the killing of buck fawns to begin with. It takes a generation or more to do so,as witnessed by the slow acceptance of hunters to accept the practice of killing does by my generation. Many of us fought it tooth & nail back in the 70's but today it has become accepted practice and a wise tool in deer mgt. Thus,must NOT taking buck fawns evolve similarly?The first step down this path is reverting to DOE permits.Think it's time has come?


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## abagwell (Oct 24, 2005)

A very good point and welll thought out. You are right about the scoofflaws too. There will always be some out there. We can help the CO's and DNR to try and rid the sports of them when possible but there will be others.


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