# Hunting near a school



## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

bigpapa8108 said:


> As a cpl holder you can carry and drop your child off at school so long as you stay in your vehicle with your pistol, so if I am allowed to have my pistol in my vehicle with me to drop my kids off then I am more like 50 feet from the building with a loaded gun, so I would say hunt away
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


As I tried to say before, whole different set of rules for concealed weapons. If you are legally licensed/permitted in this state for CCW, you are fine to do what you said (from the mouth of the MSP). We're talking about non-licensed/permitted persons carrying weapons. And specifically in the OP, hunting on an adjacent property not owned by the school.


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## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

That makes sense JD. I am awaiting a call from a local CO, so we'll see. Like I said I have had no issues in the past and the way it lays out it would be nearly impossible to shoot towards the school.

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## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

And I did post it in the law forum, but no answer yet.

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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

I think this is probably one of those "interpretation" questions again, and somewhat subject to the will of the LEO on hand. My Brother trooped metro Detroit and the burbs for quite a few years, and he said he dealt with this on occasion, not with waterfowl, but with pheasant hunters. Little known fact (or maybe not?) that metro Detroit still has quite a large population of pheasants, and therefore, some guys push the limits on hunting them. Many of them are within the city limits, but not all....


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> personally, i would hunt the heck outa it til i'm told to stop. i would especially do it just so i could challenge the 1000 ft rule which i think stosp no-one or makes it safer...such a ******** feelgood rule. used to keep my duck gun in my truck at school. I can guarantee if there was ever a shooting spree at my school, pretty sure they didnt obey the 1000ft rule and everyone is freaking helpless because of the stupid rule.
> 
> furthermore, kinda stupid to make a cpl rule as well as the people trained in handling a gun are the ones your preventing from helping if there was ever a bad situation (killing spree at a school).
> 
> (moral of the story) go hunt it!


Are you whinning, or just saying how you feel what the right thing would be to do ? Seems like I get my chops busted by you for doing that very thing. Sounds to me like there is two laws in place that conflict with each other. It should be challenged, I agree with you there.


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## wavie (Feb 2, 2004)

Dont know, but rush the playground at recess in full camo and face paint (minus the gun of course). Be sure to video it and post it here.


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## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

wavie said:


> Dont know, but rush the playground at recess in full camo and face paint (minus the gun of course). Be sure to video it and post it here.


Next time. Keep an eye out on YouTube

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## Marshmonster (Apr 22, 2003)

Mike L said:


> Through the years there's been quite a few of us who have run into the same situation you describe. The bottom line ?..It's just not worth the hassle, being correct or not, someone is going to blow the whistle etc etc etc....


This is EXACTLY correct. 

Several years ago I went through this first hand and it was an expensive lesson. I found the "honey hole" of big fat lazy geese sitting in a field that was just recently stripped for a new commercial development. I knew the developer and had WRITTEN permission to hunt this field. It was probably many acres bordered by a business to the north about 1/2 a mile, an apartment complex to the south at least 1/2 mile, and an elementary school (which I couldn't see due to treeline) about 3/4 mile away to the east and Haggerty road to the west. West Bloomfield Township! We hunted about 2000' off Haggerty under a tree with a dozen full body shells and quickly limited out. Once we started shooting, we could see people coming out of the business to the north and pointing towards our direction. Then we saw the police cruiser show up. As we finished and had CASED our guns and were picking up decoys and dead geese, we had 5 SWAT officers approach in tactical gear with handguns drawn and forced us to the ground. Again, our guns were cased and about 40 yards away and we are holding geese and decoys. Do we look dangerous? Asked what we were doing. Obvious answer-hunting. Asked for ID. Provided. Confiscated our guns until they could figure out what we did wrong! They called the DNR. DNR came and checked everything with a microscope. Licenses. Check. Permission. Check. Legal shooting from buildings/roads. Check. Steel shot. Check. So, what did we do wrong I ask? Township prosecuter comes out. I swear they had the law book on the hood of the police car and were thumbing through it trying to find something that they could get to stick. They are LOOKING for something (dare I say ANYTHING) to charge us with. I was told some tree huggers called us in for killing geese. Make matters worse, dear officer, my children are in school and WITNESSING this tragedy and are in HARMS WAY! You could not SEE the school from where we were, let alone witness anything. Clearly beyond the 1500', with a treeline between that COMPLETELY blocked the school! The business saw geese fall from the sky and heard shots, but could not see us until we started picking up. Long story short, we were charged with a million year old ordinance about discharging a firearm in the township limits that was written for New Years celebrations. Got to go home with a ticket and a court apperance, my geese and loss of a shotgun. My first court apperance the judge basically called me a mass murderer. My attorney, yes I hired a top gun defender for this one, went off. Couple of meetings in chambers, donation to the judges re-election fund, and 6 months later got my gun back and probation for 6 months (summer!). Cost a bunch of money to defend my right to hunt and doing it legal. Since this was early goose, I had to buy another shotgun (upgraded too!), legal fees, court costs, donation, etc. just because some anti-hunting West Bloomfield social wannabe was offended and used the school as the excuse. Bottom line, it's not worth it for 10 geese or 100 geese even if you are COMPLETELY legal as we were.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

Call the cops, Call the school, let them know youll be out there in the morning. If someone blows the whistle, you have proof you called. Done it before in Indiana, had no issues.


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## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

Just received a call back from the local CO. No issues as long as you are 450' from any building and are not within a city/township limit that has any ordinances about discharging firearms. So in other words, this spot is perfectly legal to hunt.

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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Marshmonster said:


> This is EXACTLY correct.
> 
> Several years ago I went through this first hand and it was an expensive lesson. I found the "honey hole" of big fat lazy geese sitting in a field that was just recently stripped for a new commercial development. I knew the developer and had WRITTEN permission to hunt this field. It was probably many acres bordered by a business to the north about 1/2 a mile, an apartment complex to the south at least 1/2 mile, and an elementary school (which I couldn't see due to treeline) about 3/4 mile away to the east and Haggerty road to the west. West Bloomfield Township! We hunted about 2000' off Haggerty under a tree with a dozen full body shells and quickly limited out. Once we started shooting, we could see people coming out of the business to the north and pointing towards our direction. Then we saw the police cruiser show up. As we finished and had CASED our guns and were picking up decoys and dead geese, we had 5 SWAT officers approach in tactical gear with handguns drawn and forced us to the ground. Again, our guns were cased and about 40 yards away and we are holding geese and decoys. Do we look dangerous? Asked what we were doing. Obvious answer-hunting. Asked for ID. Provided. Confiscated our guns until they could figure out what we did wrong! They called the DNR. DNR came and checked everything with a microscope. Licenses. Check. Permission. Check. Legal shooting from buildings/roads. Check. Steel shot. Check. So, what did we do wrong I ask? Township prosecuter comes out. I swear they had the law book on the hood of the police car and were thumbing through it trying to find something that they could get to stick. They are LOOKING for something (dare I say ANYTHING) to charge us with. I was told some tree huggers called us in for killing geese. Make matters worse, dear officer, my children are in school and WITNESSING this tragedy and are in HARMS WAY! You could not SEE the school from where we were, let alone witness anything. Clearly beyond the 1500', with a treeline between that COMPLETELY blocked the school! The business saw geese fall from the sky and heard shots, but could not see us until we started picking up. Long story short, we were charged with a million year old ordinance about discharging a firearm in the township limits that was written for New Years celebrations. Got to go home with a ticket and a court apperance, my geese and loss of a shotgun. My first court apperance the judge basically called me a mass murderer. My attorney, yes I hired a top gun defender for this one, went off. Couple of meetings in chambers, donation to the judges re-election fund, and 6 months later got my gun back and probation for 6 months (summer!). Cost a bunch of money to defend my right to hunt and doing it legal. Since this was early goose, I had to buy another shotgun (upgraded too!), legal fees, court costs, donation, etc. just because some anti-hunting West Bloomfield social wannabe was offended and used the school as the excuse. Bottom line, it's not worth it for 10 geese or 100 geese even if you are COMPLETELY legal as we were.


MM - I feel for you brother. But you said the magic word...."*ordinance"* many local ordinances deal with discharge of firearms, and/or prohibit hunting with firearms. I can point to a township about 5 miles from where I'm sitting now, which is at least 70% rural, farms and agriculture, but the township has an ordinance against discharge of firearms. So although I feel your pain, those situations are all over the state (talk to the guys who bring up the Lake St. Clair shoreline each fall in the "pointe's" area). But this is apples and oranges...we aren't talking about local ordinances. This is a federal law, which has specific requirements.


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## Steverinobambino (Feb 8, 2005)

Marshmonster said:


> This is EXACTLY correct.
> 
> Several years ago I went through this first hand and it was an expensive lesson. I found the "honey hole" of big fat lazy geese sitting in a field that was just recently stripped for a new commercial development. I knew the developer and had WRITTEN permission to hunt this field. It was probably many acres bordered by a business to the north about 1/2 a mile, an apartment complex to the south at least 1/2 mile, and an elementary school (which I couldn't see due to treeline) about 3/4 mile away to the east and Haggerty road to the west. West Bloomfield Township! We hunted about 2000' off Haggerty under a tree with a dozen full body shells and quickly limited out. Once we started shooting, we could see people coming out of the business to the north and pointing towards our direction. Then we saw the police cruiser show up. As we finished and had CASED our guns and were picking up decoys and dead geese, we had 5 SWAT officers approach in tactical gear with handguns drawn and forced us to the ground. Again, our guns were cased and about 40 yards away and we are holding geese and decoys. Do we look dangerous? Asked what we were doing. Obvious answer-hunting. Asked for ID. Provided. Confiscated our guns until they could figure out what we did wrong! They called the DNR. DNR came and checked everything with a microscope. Licenses. Check. Permission. Check. Legal shooting from buildings/roads. Check. Steel shot. Check. So, what did we do wrong I ask? Township prosecuter comes out. I swear they had the law book on the hood of the police car and were thumbing through it trying to find something that they could get to stick. They are LOOKING for something (dare I say ANYTHING) to charge us with. I was told some tree huggers called us in for killing geese. Make matters worse, dear officer, my children are in school and WITNESSING this tragedy and are in HARMS WAY! You could not SEE the school from where we were, let alone witness anything. Clearly beyond the 1500', with a treeline between that COMPLETELY blocked the school! The business saw geese fall from the sky and heard shots, but could not see us until we started picking up. Long story short, we were charged with a million year old ordinance about discharging a firearm in the township limits that was written for New Years celebrations. Got to go home with a ticket and a court apperance, my geese and loss of a shotgun. My first court apperance the judge basically called me a mass murderer. My attorney, yes I hired a top gun defender for this one, went off. Couple of meetings in chambers, donation to the judges re-election fund, and 6 months later got my gun back and probation for 6 months (summer!). Cost a bunch of money to defend my right to hunt and doing it legal. Since this was early goose, I had to buy another shotgun (upgraded too!), legal fees, court costs, donation, etc. just because some anti-hunting West Bloomfield social wannabe was offended and used the school as the excuse. Bottom line, it's not worth it for 10 geese or 100 geese even if you are COMPLETELY legal as we were.


And there ya have it. Anyone want to go through the bull*** that Marsh went thru?

I wouldn't be hunting anywhere near a school.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Steverinobambino said:


> And there ya have it. Anyone want to go through the bull*** that Marsh went thru?
> 
> I wouldn't be hunting anywhere near a school.


again, you missed the point. He said *"Long story short, we were charged with a million year old ordinance about discharging a firearm in the township limits that was written for New Years celebrations."* It had nothing to do with a school. It was because of an antiquated ordinance that remains on the books. But frankly, any highly populated township in Michigan likely has something similar, as I pointed out in my example earlier.


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## Steverinobambino (Feb 8, 2005)

just ducky said:


> again, you missed the point. He said *"Long story short, we were charged with a million year old ordinance about discharging a firearm in the township limits that was written for New Years celebrations."* It had nothing to do with a school. It was because of an antiquated ordinance that remains on the books. But frankly, any highly populated township in Michigan likely has something similar, as I pointed out in my example earlier.


Hunting near a school is a bad idea period, especially in this day and age. But then again, I'm sure someone out there will do so and share a similiar story, maybe even with a worse outcome. Why risk it? 

I agree with your post about being a apples to oranges scenario, but I also agree with Marsh's "take-away" of risk vs reward applies to hunting near a school....that is all.


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## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

Steverinobambino said:


> Hunting near a school is a bad idea period, especially in this day and age. But then again, I'm sure someone out there will do so and share a similiar story, maybe even with a worse outcome. Why risk it?
> 
> I agree with your post about being a apples to oranges scenario, but I also agree with Marsh's "take-away" of risk vs reward applies to hunting near a school....that is all.


I'm not to worried. The CO knew the exact spot I was talking about and said it was perfectly legal. I have his name and number in my phone should any issues arise. 



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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Steverinobambino said:


> ....but I also agree with Marsh's "take-away" of risk vs reward applies to hunting near a school....that is all.


Yep, sometimes just because it's legal doesn't mean it's a good idea. Hunting right off someone's dock on some of the more populated lakes is a case in point. May be legal, but just asking for complaints.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Earlier this year I hunted within ear shot (but well outside of 1000') of my daughter's school and told her I would be doing it.

Could hear the distant chatter of kids playing before first bell when I popped a couple drakes.

Get home and my daughter tells me "well, I heard two shots this morning, so I better see two ducks hanging in the barn".

Everyone's a critic these days......


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## TNL (Jan 6, 2005)

...I find that the recess bell flares birds. Not worth it IMO.


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

TNL said:


> ...I find that the recess bell flares birds. Not worth it IMO.


That's funny


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> ... my daughter tells me "well, I heard two shots this morning, so I better see two ducks hanging in the barn"...


:lol: Funny! Better than her saying "daddy, the teacher made us all go in the gym and locked the door until the police showed up"


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## duckbuster808 (Sep 9, 2005)

I thought that you weren't allowed to be within so many feet of kids anymore huntermax...isn't that what he judge told you!?!?    lol


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## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

duckbuster808 said:


> I thought that you weren't allowed to be within so many feet of kids anymore huntermax...isn't that what he judge told you!?!?    lol
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Simmer down Corey. The judge just said I couldn't be anywhere near kids in dedgoose's van.

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## duckbuster808 (Sep 9, 2005)

No, I'm pretttttty sure he said "not within x-amount of feet" of children....better check with you probation officer not the CO on that one... 


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Huntermax-4 said:


> Simmer down Corey. The judge just said I couldn't be anywhere near kids in dedgoose's van.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


and certainly not *DOWN BY THE RIVER!*



http://youtu.be/3nhgfjrKi0o


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

Might want to reconsider this season. After this school shooting in CT, a lot of critics will be watching extra close. Might turn into a big deal even though you are legal.


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

Bellyup said:


> Might want to reconsider this season. After this school shooting in CT, a lot of critics will be watching extra close. Might turn into a big deal even though you are legal.


Sad but true. Hunters just can't win. Even though a hunter may have dry land swatted mister idiot.


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## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

Heck, after today we may not be able to own guns ever again.  

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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

don't mistake this tragedy as caused by guns or hunters. if you let that happen, we will lose rights.

you could have a weapon ban across the board, and it would not have prevented this. disturbed people are everywhere and they do crazy things and they do not follow the rules. 

prayers to the families that were affected by this f'n idiot and poor excuse for a human being.



p.s. i just seen on the news that the school was already on lockdown and they let the kid through the door? wth?


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## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> don't mistake this tragedy as caused by guns or hunters. if you let that happen, we will lose rights.
> 
> you could have a weapon ban across the board, and it would not have prevented this. disturbed people are everywhere and they do crazy things and they do not follow the rules.
> 
> ...


Good post. If only anti's would see that reasoning.

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## shotgun12 (Jul 19, 2005)

over here you not dare shoot near a school.you have just had a shooting over 18 kids dead


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

shotgun12 said:


> over here you not dare shoot near a school.you have just had a shooting over 18 kids dead


again, tragedy by a loony. not by gun.....by a lunatic, crazy deranged lunatic. do you not have any of those in england?


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## shotgun12 (Jul 19, 2005)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> again, tragedy by a loony. not by gun.....by a lunatic, crazy deranged lunatic. do you not have any of those in england?




yes we do,but not as many shooting as you have over there each time we had a very bad shooting the gun laws changed,we lost the had guns,and the 5 shot semi auto, and the pump action shotgun,we can have over 5 shots but on a fire arm licence.its not the gun its the people.we have to have a licence for guns here,and the police know every gun we have in the house.no licence is 10 years in jail,


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## TNL (Jan 6, 2005)

I never like getting too serious on here but the incident in CT is probably going to be the tipping point for some serious talk about gun control. People don't understand guns unless they grew up with them or know somebody who introduced them to the sport.

Therein lies one issue - the uniformed are going to rally against anything that goes bang, especially semi-autos and black guns (ARs and the like). Our duty, as hunters, sportsmen, and sport shooting enthusiasts is to inform them in an intelligent way that guns are very safe and a very enjoyable pastime.

The other issue that no one seems to talk about is mental health. Everyone of these shootings has had someone with serious mental health problems behind the trigger. Tucson, CT, CO, WI, WV, and on and on. No one talks about the fact that we closed a majority of the mental institutions back in the 90s where these sorts of people would be most likely permanent residents. Now they are either on the streets or in prisons. The amount of mental health drugs given in prisons is staggering. These folks may not of committed the crimes had they just had the help they needed. Very clearly some are not fit to be in society. But it's too much of a cost burden for our gov't and not PC to house psychopaths, sociopaths, psychotics, etc., for the benefit of society. Far easier to pick on an inanimate object like a gun.

I'm done now. Sorry for the rant, but I can already hear the B.S. that's going to come from the media and politicians.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

TNL said:


> ...No one talks about the fact that we closed a majority of the mental institutions back in the 90s where these sorts of people would be most likely permanent residents. Now they are either on the streets or in prisons. The amount of mental health drugs given in prisons is staggering. These folks may not of committed the crimes had they just had the help they needed. Very clearly some are not fit to be in society. But it's too much of a cost burden for our gov't and not PC to house psychopaths, sociopaths, psychotics, etc., for the benefit of society. Far easier to pick on an inanimate object like a gun....


yeah, don't want to get too far off on this tangent, but I've talked about Michigan's situation before. In the 90's we shuttered a lot of mental health facilities and moved people into "community living" situations. I don't wanna tell you how many of these residential facilities we all paid to build in the last 20 years, but part of my job at the time was to oversee construction of them statetwide, and suffice to say they're everywhere...some in your neighborhood! Trust me here :yikes:. At the same time, we also went on a prison building kick, to the point where the corrections budget in Michigan is staggering compared to the 80's. So you're right...we are either turning them back into society, or locking them up.

I don't mean to scare anyone, but this is going to keep happening, and eventually here in Michigan due to the above situation. Just a fact.


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## smithsc1 (Feb 8, 2008)

Ducky, We had the same discussion last night. Mental Health Care in our state is pretty sad. On a whole, we are also desensitizing violence. 

One other thing to remember is that this guy did not get the guns legally. Per the Today Show-this guy's parent's bought them. The parents let this guy, who is mentally ill (per the brother,) steal them.


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## wavie (Feb 2, 2004)

just ducky said:


> I don't mean to scare anyone, but this is going to keep happening, and eventually here in Michigan due to the above situation. Just a fact.


Not to take away from the tragedy in CT, but i was surprised to come across an article that mentioned the largest school massacre in Bath, MI. It wasnt guns, but i have not heard a word about it until some little blurb in an article.

http://www.press.umich.edu/371028/bath_massacre


I wonder if the media will ever take a look at themselves and see if they too may be contributing to these deadly events with such extensive coverage. I know i am only dreaming but when you are dealing with mentally unstable individuals, you've got to think it plays a part in their decision. It was very unnerving to watch msnbc last night and hear them promote their beliefs on gun control. They just have to look north of the border and see how futile their effort was in the gun registry.

Boone, it maybe legal to do it, but i personally would make sure to let the highest school official know your intentions. With this incident everyone will be hyper sensitive. 

Hard to comprehend this tragic event, but your right JD, this wont be the last.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

shotgun12 said:


> yes we do,but not as many shooting as you have over there each time we had a very bad shooting the gun laws changed,we lost the had guns,and the 5 shot semi auto, and the pump action shotgun,we can have over 5 shots but on a fire arm licence.its not the gun its the people.we have to have a licence for guns here,and the police know every gun we have in the house.no licence is 10 years in jail,


yeah well thats not an option here...no way, ever will i live under that.


and if it isn't guns used by lunatics its something else. 

you guys (england) seem to have a bomb problem, maybe you should outlaw them or put a ban on them?


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

wavie said:


> Not to take away from the tragedy in CT, but i was surprised to come across an article that mentioned the largest school massacre in Bath, MI. It wasnt guns, but i have not heard a word about it until some little blurb in an article.
> 
> http://www.press.umich.edu/371028/bath_massacre


Yep, very well-known in my area of the state. In fact, the site of this tragedy is only about 8 miles from my house.



wavie said:


> I wonder if the media will ever take a look at themselves and see if they too may be contributing to these deadly events with such extensive coverage....


These guys are simply martyrs...and the media perpetuates it. I hate to give the media an inflated ego of how big they are, but media coverage influences a lot of things in this world, from how/what products we buy (i.e. black friday...which was created and is perpetuated by marketing and media to sell products), to what foods we eat, to what a nut will do with guns to make the headlines. welcome to our world :rant:


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## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

wavie said:


> Not to take away from the tragedy in CT, but i was surprised to come across an article that mentioned the largest school massacre in Bath, MI. It wasnt guns, but i have not heard a word about it until some little blurb in an article.
> 
> http://www.press.umich.edu/371028/bath_massacre
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'll def be thinking about this before I do it. The good thing is it might be good for the split which will fall during Christmas break for the kids.

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