# Boycott these vets



## griffondog

If anyone uses these vets they are supporting taking the right to add game species away from the NRC. I would suggest you find a new vet.

eborah Baron, DVM, Affiliated Veterinary Emergency Hospital
Lorraine Bartloff, DVM, Clayview Animal Clinic
Kent D. Beebe, DVM, Lakeview Veterinary Clinic
George A. Bergman, DVM, Bergman Veterinary Medical Center
Liene Liga Dindonis, MS, DVM, Richland Animal Hospital
Kerry Gilbert, DVM, Richland Animal Hospital
Pamela Graves, DVM, Jensen's Animal Hospital
Karen E. Hinkle, DVM, Town & Country Animal Hospital
Julie Hubbard, DVM, Waverly Animal Hospital
Ruen Stocking, DVM
Margaret Thorp, DVM, Metropolitan Veterinary Hospital
Georgi L. Winter, DVM, Boardwalk Veterinary Clinic
Dale Ackler, DVM
Mary Alban, DVM, Mackinaw Straits Veterinary Clinic
Jill Angell, DVM
Katherine Ash, DVM
Peter C. Baldwin, DVM
Jennifer Bartolucci, DVM
Cheri Beasley, DVM
Susan Berg, DVM
Robert Bowkoz, DVM
Shana Burack, DVM
Kevin Burt, DVM, Lilley Veterinary Medical Center
Barbara Bytwerk, DVM, Haven Animal Hospital
Grace Chang, DVM
Jeanne Corbett, DVM, Fruitport Animal Hospital
Kathleen Corbett, DVM
Simon Fick, DVM
Nancy Flanagin, DVM
Tanya Fraser, DVM, Allendale Animal Hospital
Barbara Gideon, DVM
Elizabeth Maxon Gray, DVM
Bruce W. Harlton, DVM
Daniel Hoeskema, DVM, Westwood Hills Animal Hospital
Katherine Houpt, DVM, Animal Behavior Consultants of Northern Michigan
Duane Lerdal, DVM, Hartford Animal Clinic
Christine Juergens, DVM
Sharman D. Karwoski, DVM
Jill Klumpp, DVM
Eric Mann, DVM, Hamilton Animal Hospital
Michael P. McLaughlin, DVM
Sara Michelin, DVM
Lora Montgomery, DVM
Derek Nolan, DVM, Cedar Creek Veterinary Clinic
Patricia O'Handley, DVM, MSU Veternary Clinc
Susan Peters, DVM
Tracy Randlett, DVM
Allen Reynolds, DVM, Veterinary Associates LLC
John Richter, DVM, Jordan Valley Animal Clinic
Lori Robbins, DVM
N. Edward Robinson, DVM, MSU Veternary Clinc
Keith Rohrer, DVM
William Sands, DVM, Crossroads Veterinary Clinic
Jill Savage, DVM
Christine Scott, DVM, Birmingham Veterinary Clinic
K.F. Seifert, DVM, Town & Country Veterinary Clinic
Ken Silvernail, DVM
Ioana Sonea, DMV
Stephen Sutherland, DVM, Pfizer Animal Health
Kelly Totin, DVM
Richard Thomas, DVM
Susan Turner, DVM
Nicholas Vitale, DVM
Cathleen Weber, DVM, South Lyon Animal Clinic
Gloria Williams, DVM, Pet Authority Animal Hospital
Gail S. Wolfe, DVM
Kerry Zubke, DVM, Frontier Veterinary Clinic
Carolyn Allen, DVM
Arthur Beaudoin, Manchester Veterinary Clinic
Elizabeth Beauduin, Manchester Veterinary Clinic
Kristine Butto-Brownlee, Cahill Veterinary Hospital
Christine Condoll, Associate DVM
Mary T. Degroffe
Robert Ewald, DVM
Nancy Flanagin, DVM
Madeline Graham, DVM
Kathryn Gruca, DVM
William Hearle
Catherine Lindstrand, DVM, Isabella Cat Clinic
B. Marlene Mackie, DVM
Marilyn McDowall, DVM
Ryan McKnight, Switzer Veterinary Clinic
Anita Merlino, Midtown Animal Hospital
Denise Montagna, DVM
Bruce Mortimer, East Lansing Veterinary Clinic
Anthony Muhich, DVM, Thomson Animal Clinic
Kristie Parnell, DVM
Mary C. Peacock, Relief VET
Christie Pisha, Morris Hospital for Vet Svc.
Tammy Sadek, Kentwood Cat Clinic
Patricia Salamun, DVM
William Sands, Crossroads Veterinary Clinic
Alice Schacht, Jefferson Veterinary Center
Timothy Schacht, Jefferson Veterinary Center
Chris Tabaka, DVM
Ruth TenBrock, DVM
Willliam Tower, DVM
Philip F. Von Voigtlander, DVM
Heather L. Wark, DVM
J.R. Westhimer, Manistee Veterinary Hospital
Rand Wilson, DVM
Jennifer Zerbal, DVM
Shana Burack, DVM
Liene Liga Dindonis, MS, DVM
Cheryl Rice, DVM
Sebastian Buzdug, DVM
Matthew Burke, DVM
Green Street Veterinary Clinic
Laura Wilding, DVM
Hollie Rebo, DVM, Detroit, MI
Laura Wilding, DVM, Dexter, MI
Nancy Bischof, DVM, Perry, MI
Jennifer Bohney, DVM, Marshall, MI
William Wood, DVM, Detroit, MI
Jason Speidel, DVM, Brooklyn, MI
Laura Witherell, DVM, Birmingham, MI
Matthey Hynes, DVM, Troy, MI
Sharon Morgan, DVM, Leslie, MI
Stony Creek Veterinary Hospital, Washington, MI
Karen E. Hinkle, DVM, Brighton, MI 
Pamela Graves, DVM, Brighton, MI 
Kent D Bebbe, DVM, Brighton, MI 
Kurt Gerster, DVM Brighton, MI 
Towne & Country Animal Hospital Brighton, MI
Laura Klar, DVM Marquette,MI
Karl Olson, DVM Gaylord, MI 
Animal Behavior Consultants of Northern Michigan Gaylord, MI
Stephen Sage, DVM Lansing, MI 
Mt. Hope Veterinary Hospital Lansing, MI
Beth Shapiro, DVM West Grove, PA 
Cynthia Weaver, DVM Reading, MI 
Sharman D. Karwoski, DVM

Back


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## lang49

I agree...somehow it is more humane for a wolf to eat a domestic dog alive than for a wolf to be shot and dispatched promptly. 

What a bunch of idiots.


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## michgundog

Can anyone suggest a good Vet near Fenton? Preferably a vet that knows bird dogs. 


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## FIJI

might want to add: Rochester Veterinary Hospital - Crooks Rd


Called there just to check on some med prices, and when told I had Golden Retrievers they asked - "You don't hunt them, do you?"



....CLICK.....


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## gundogguy

All ready a done deal, one lefty on that list I boy gutted 22 yrs. ago and he is only a mile way by the way the dead crow fly's.

It is only going to get worse as the sheep skin mill in East Lansing keeps churning out Proglibs every year.


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## pikestalker

We have used Fenton Vetinary Clinic for years. They are on Fenton Road, down by the marina. Two docs, he can be moody but is a bird hunter, she is the greatest doc in the world, and knows her bird dogs.


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## Mike McDonald

What's boy gutted?

As a veterinarian that is not on that list, I wonder how self righteous you all will be when your tit gets in a wringer and the person available to get it out is on the list. Will you coyote ugly it or will you politely accept the help then reach into your pocket for cash rather than reaching for your sermon? You may not agree with their politics, on this issue I don't either, but I know a number of people on that list that are very very good at what they've been trained to do. I also wonder if you quiz the E R doc's politics when you've got chest pain or whether you pray to God that he or she is going to say your ass.. It's easy to be Mike Tyson from the protection of your keyboard. 
Mike McDonald DVM


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## tdduckman

Mike McDonald said:


> What's boy gutted?
> 
> As a veterinarian that is not on that list, I wonder how self righteous you all will be when your tit gets in a wringer and the person available to get it out is on the list. Will you coyote ugly it or will you politely accept the help then reach into your pocket for cash rather than reaching for your sermon? You may not agree with their politics, on this issue I don't either, but I know a number of people on that list that are very very good at what they've been trained to do. I also wonder if you quiz the E R doc's politics when you've got chest pain or whether you pray to God that he or she is going to say your ass.. It's easy to be Mike Tyson from the protection of your keyboard.
> Mike McDonald DVM


If it was an emergency I would use one of those vets, however most vet fees are discretionary so I would choose not to support a Vet that is fighting hunting rights.

My current Vet is a Hunter but is very close to retiring so I am looking for a vet that understands hunting dogs and I will drive a long way to get there in normal situations.


Vets are small business people and this is the cost of taking a political stand as a business owner.


TD


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## Kennybks

Ive been using Tom Firstel on the south end of Millington on m15. I have no idea if he hunts but he definately is a good vet and doesn't have an issue. He does a lot of farm visits for livestock. His prices are usually very reasonable. 

Hes taken a few of mine from critical to running again. It can be rough getting in to him sometimes as he shows up late often on emergency calls. 8-10 cars waiting when he does show. 

Never had any concerns with his decisions. I have with other vets. Ive lost two dogs having routine procedures performed. Tom I have confidence in. Highly recommend him.

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## Jim58

Mike McDonald said:


> What's boy gutted?
> 
> As a veterinarian that is not on that list, I wonder how self righteous you all will be when your tit gets in a wringer and the person available to get it out is on the list. Will you coyote ugly it or will you politely accept the help then reach into your pocket for cash rather than reaching for your sermon? You may not agree with their politics, on this issue I don't either, but I know a number of people on that list that are very very good at what they've been trained to do. I also wonder if you quiz the E R doc's politics when you've got chest pain or whether you pray to God that he or she is going to say your ass.. It's easy to be Mike Tyson from the protection of your keyboard.
> Mike McDonald DVM


Kind of chewing on a little ear yourself aren't you?

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## k9wernet

Mike McDonald said:


> What's boy gutted?
> 
> As a veterinarian that is not on that list, I wonder how self righteous you all will be when your tit gets in a wringer and the person available to get it out is on the list. Will you coyote ugly it or will you politely accept the help then reach into your pocket for cash rather than reaching for your sermon? You may not agree with their politics, on this issue I don't either, but I know a number of people on that list that are very very good at what they've been trained to do. I also wonder if you quiz the E R doc's politics when you've got chest pain or whether you pray to God that he or she is going to say your ass.. It's easy to be Mike Tyson from the protection of your keyboard.
> Mike McDonald DVM


I respectfully disagree Mike.

If a business owner (and ultimately, these are all small-business owners we're talking about, right?) are going to use their position in the community to advocate for or against a particular political viewpoint, I think it's well within our rights as consumers to "vote with our dollars" so to speak.

In an emergency, sure, I'm not going to ask a lot of questions. But to continue your analogy, if I saw my kids' pediatrician at a pro-choice rally, I'd be done using his services.

For the record, our pediatrician is pro-life... we've had that conversation.


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## boomer_x7

Mike McDonald said:


> What's boy gutted?
> 
> As a veterinarian that is not on that list, I wonder how self righteous you all will be when your tit gets in a wringer and the person available to get it out is on the list. * Will you coyote ugly it* or will you politely accept the help then reach into your pocket for cash rather than reaching for your sermon? You may not agree with their politics, on this issue I don't either, but I know a number of people on that list that are very very good at what they've been trained to do. I also wonder if you quiz the E R doc's politics when you've got chest pain or whether you pray to God that he or she is going to say your ass.. It's easy to be Mike Tyson from the protection of your keyboard.
> Mike McDonald DVM


Your choice of words shows your ignorance.


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## Shotgun Kennel

michgundog said:


> Can anyone suggest a good Vet near Fenton? Preferably a vet that knows bird dogs.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


I take my 6 to swartz creek vet clinic. The clinic in Linden is good also.


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## griffondog

Mike McDonald said:


> What's boy gutted?
> 
> As a veterinarian that is not on that list, I wonder how self righteous you all will be when your tit gets in a wringer and the person available to get it out is on the list. Will you coyote ugly it or will you politely accept the help then reach into your pocket for cash rather than reaching for your sermon? You may not agree with their politics, on this issue I don't either, but I know a number of people on that list that are very very good at what they've been trained to do. I also wonder if you quiz the E R doc's politics when you've got chest pain or whether you pray to God that he or she is going to say your ass.. It's easy to be Mike Tyson from the protection of your keyboard.
> Mike McDonald DVM


I coyote ugly it now so no they ain't getting a dime from me. 

Griff


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## dauber

Mike McDonald said:


> *What's boy gutted?*
> 
> As a veterinarian that is not on that list, I wonder how self righteous you all will be when your *tit gets in a wringer* and the person available to get it out is on the list. Will you coyote ugly it or will you politely accept the help then reach into your pocket for cash rather than reaching for your sermon? You may not agree with their politics, on this issue I don't either, but I know a number of people on that list that are very very good at what they've been trained to do. I also wonder if you quiz the E R doc's politics when you've got chest pain or whether you pray to God that he or she is going to say your ass.. It's easy to be Mike Tyson from the protection of your keyboard.
> Mike McDonald DVM


I help out..."boy gutted" is hillbilly for boy-cotted. Also for most of the younger readers this is a wringer...









Geeze it's getting tough to follow these posts


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## milmo1

Mike McDonald said:


> What's boy gutted?
> 
> As a veterinarian that is not on that list, I wonder how self righteous you all will be when your tit gets in a wringer and the person available to get it out is on the list. Will you coyote ugly it or will you politely accept the help then reach into your pocket for cash rather than reaching for your sermon? You may not agree with their politics, on this issue I don't either, but I know a number of people on that list that are very very good at what they've been trained to do. I also wonder if you quiz the E R doc's politics when you've got chest pain or whether you pray to God that he or she is going to say your ass.. It's easy to be Mike Tyson from the protection of your keyboard.
> Mike McDonald DVM


I would have to respectfully disagree also. Yes, if my dog is in trouble, well, any port in a storm. And, as a professional, they would treat the dog accordingly. I don't think that is the question. If you oppose what I believe in, and quite frankly this should be a common sense issue, it will hit you in the pocketbook. 

When I am at work, I am restricted from sharing my opinions if they differ from a customer's opinion. Hell, that is just good business - know where your bread is buttered - anyone with a buck! You should hear the crap we take from libs when Fox News is on in the waiting room. Guess what - we change the station. Does that make us any less competent at what we do? Customer satisfaction is a fickle beast. Keep your political opinions to yourself, close friends and the voting booth.

As far as Mike Tyson from behind a keyboard, I have no problem sharing my difference of opinion with someone I patronize. But, tell me this, how many are swayed by your opinion, really. Probably none. As a business person, when you take a public stand, it may cost ya. Maybe they don't care. I do.


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## Liver and Onions

griffondog said:


> If anyone uses these vets they are supporting taking the right to add game species away from the NRC. I would suggest you find a new vet.
> ..........................
> Back


How did they do this ? Source of your information ? Has anyone called any of these vets to get their side of the story ?
Every vet that I have ever known would support a wolf hunt, however I can see them sending a donation to a group like HSUS and never connecting to anti-hunting. Vets are smart people, but most don't follow these issues like many of us.

L & O


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## k9wernet

Liver and Onions said:


> How did they do this ? Source of your information ? Has anyone called any of these vets to get their side of the story ?
> Every vet that I have ever known would support a wolf hunt, however I can see them sending a donation to a group like HSUS and never connecting to anti-hunting. Vets are smart people, but most don't follow these issues like many of us.
> 
> L & O


http://keepwolvesprotected.com/about/endorsements

Maybe you need to meet more vets.

Living in close proximity to MSU I have the opportunity to meet a lot of vet students. Most of them are only interested in small animal care, most are female, and most put animals in the same moral/political category as they do children... Or maybe a slightly higher one.


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## michgundog

Shotgun Kennel said:


> I take my 6 to swartz creek vet clinic. The clinic in Linden is good also.


Thank you. Sorry for hijacking the thread. My vet is a going to retire and his replacement is a joke. 
I don't see her name or his on this list. I do agree with others, take a political stance as a small business owner and face the hand your dealt. I would never go to a vet that didn't support hunters or gun rights. 


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## Down Lowe

pikestalker said:


> We have used Fenton Vetinary Clinic for years. They are on Fenton Road, down by the marina. Two docs, he can be moody but is a bird hunter, she is the greatest doc in the world, and knows her bird dogs.


X2


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## Merimac

Mike McDonald said:


> What's boy gutted?
> 
> As a veterinarian that is not on that list, I wonder how self righteous you all will be when your tit gets in a wringer and the person available to get it out is on the list. Will you coyote ugly it or will you politely accept the help then reach into your pocket for cash rather than reaching for your sermon? You may not agree with their politics, on this issue I don't either, but I know a number of people on that list that are very very good at what they've been trained to do. I also wonder if you quiz the E R doc's politics when you've got chest pain or whether you pray to God that he or she is going to say your ass.. It's easy to be Mike Tyson from the protection of your keyboard.
> Mike McDonald DVM


Mike, You can't ask, "What's boy gutted?" and than type "say your ass" with out being quoted. I am pro Vet but you have to admit, if you put your name out there as an Anti you may be viewed as an Anti. Pros sometimes fight the Antis. So it goes.


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## Mike McDonald

Sorry say was supposed to be save. I get the pro vs anti. Just saying that i bet most people lose their noble positions when they're in a tight spot. Mac


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## northwinsetter

Mike McDonald said:


> Just saying that i bet most people lose their noble positions when they're in a tight spot. Mac




What I read in this thread is basically this: "I support a cause (boycotting certain vets for their beliefs) as long as it is convenient." As often is the case, most don't like to be called out on the realities of the level of their commitment because the truth is it fits the definition of hypocritical.


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## NATTY BUMPO

Mike McDonald said:


> Just saying that i bet most people lose their noble positions when they're in a tight spot. Mac


x2

Dr. Mac has it right. Like it or not, the wolf hunt is a very contentious issue. So is gun control. So is hunting small game or deer, which shouldn't be an issue, but is today. Good people, on both sides, can have strongly held differences of opinion on them.

I don't pick my professional advisors based on their politics; I'm interested in their credentials only. My internist graduated from U of M Med School, interned at Mayo Clinic, holds three board certifications and is admitted at Munson. I have no idea what his politics are and don't care one whit. Same for my lawyer, CPA, investment advisor or builder. Are they the best at what they do, that's all.

The guys who pick their Vets based on their politics are looking at the wrong criteria in my view. My two coppers, and now I'm broke.

NB


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## Merimac

NATTY BUMPO said:


> x2
> 
> Dr. Mac has it right. Like it or not, the wolf hunt is a very contentious issue. So is gun control. So is hunting small game or deer, which shouldn't be an issue, but is today. Good people, on both sides, can have strongly held differences of opinion on them.
> 
> I don't pick my professional advisors based on their politics; I'm interested in their credentials only. My internist graduated from U of M Med School, interned at Mayo Clinic, holds three board certifications and is admitted at Munson. I have no idea what his politics are and don't care one whit. Same for my lawyer, CPA, investment advisor or builder. Are they the best at what they do, that's all.
> 
> The guys who pick their Vets based on their politics are looking at the wrong criteria in my view. My two coppers, and now I'm broke.
> 
> NB


I agree with you and Mac but putting your name out there publicly on a touchy subject is bound to draw criticism. Thats why politicians never say anything.


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## Seaarkshooter

Mike McDonald said:


> Sorry say was supposed to be save. I get the pro vs anti. Just saying that i bet most people lose their noble positions when they're in a tight spot. Mac


I, wholeheatly, disagree. My wife is a nurse, my cousin is a Circuit Court Judge and I have been associated with these professions profusely enough to know that they can be a dime a dozen with plenty of highly qualified candidates available to choose from. After the auto companies tanked, many of my coworkers and I went on the crusade of only patronising health care professionals with our fifth level benies which drove American made and assembled vehicles. For my doctor's office manager, it wasn't a laughing matter after just a few weeks. She soon instructed all office staff as to what vehicles the doctors drove. It wasn't hard for my company to educate the workers on the biases of manufacturing import rules regarding what's considered "American made and assembled" either. According to the Corporate HR department, it was very successful because they received a huge paper changing nightmare over the two month reassignment period that year with no other contributing factor. 

So, Mac, I wouldn't be quite so quick to speculate. There was a reason why the Michigan Humane Society spent tens of thousands trying to distant themselves from HSUS eight years ago. They took one heck of an unexpected beating of financial support when they were seen associated with the bear hunting referendum. After this next year's tv, radio and paper education campaign gets underway, with the coalition's aims of exposing whom is behind this fight, we will see who is going to feel the consequences of whom they're associated with.

I, for one, will be posting this list on the employee advertisement bulleting boards near the time clocks and starting break and lunch time conversation about it. That you for the heads up, Griffondog!

2014: Vote Yes For Conservation


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## FREEPOP

NATTY BUMPO said:


> x2
> 
> Dr. Mac has it right. Like it or not, the wolf hunt is a very contentious issue. So is gun control. So is hunting small game or deer, which shouldn't be an issue, but is today. Good people, on both sides, can have strongly held differences of opinion on them.
> 
> I don't pick my professional advisors based on their politics; I'm interested in their credentials only. My internist graduated from U of M Med School, interned at Mayo Clinic, holds three board certifications and is admitted at Munson. I have no idea what his politics are and don't care one whit. Same for my lawyer, CPA, investment advisor or builder. Are they the best at what they do, that's all.
> 
> The guys who pick their Vets based on their politics are looking at the wrong criteria in my view. My two coppers, and now I'm broke.
> 
> NB


I can somewhat understand your point but upon further thought I have to remember that number one, I am a hunter as my beagle is. Any vet should understand the importance of keeping animals in control with their habitat, they know the disease and starvation that is associated with overpopulation and how long it takes for the animal to succumb to it. Any vet should also know the threat that the wild animals pose to our pets.

I feel very lucky as my primary vet is also a beagle guy. I have 3 other vet clinics within 20 miles of me that I'm 100% sure that they aren't on that list (I will double check) because they live here in rural America. They don't have Disney Fantasies of all the animals playing and living together and they know that meat doesn't just come in a package from the store 

I might also add that any vet that can't comprehend the sheer joy that a dog experiences when it is hunting, as his instincts motivate him, can't fully understand or truly care for the animal. To deny an animal of that freedom would be an imprisonment of the worst kind that I can imagine.


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## Jim58

Mike McDonald said:


> Sorry say was supposed to be save. I get the pro vs anti. Just saying that i bet most people lose their noble positions when they're in a tight spot. Mac


So as long as it's a service or law , or fee, or tax ect. that we may need at some point or may be required to use or conform to then we should not do our best to point out our displeasure with the stance taken?

It's not only acceptable but it's our duty to ourselves to express our thoughts in whatever way legally and morally available that we may choose even if being forced by circumstances to conform may weaken the weight of our stance now or in the future.

If a business chooses to take a stance (as is their right) then they should expect to bear the weight of criticism they may encounter from opposing factions and customers.

To hide behind the possibility that their services may be needed by that same critical faction or customer at some point as a method of belittling the person expressing that criticism is not what I expected to find here.
:rant:


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## lang49

NATTY BUMPO said:


> The guys who pick their Vets based on their politics are looking at the wrong criteria in my view.
> 
> NB


I admit, my ethics may not mean much in an emergency. However, to spend money and time training a dog to hunt, and then pay a vet who advocates that hunting should be outlawed (make no mistake, that is HSUS's goal) would be a dumb thing to do.


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## NATTY BUMPO

lang49 said:


> I admit, my ethics may not mean much in an emergency. However, to spend money and time training a dog to hunt, and then pay a vet who advocates that hunting should be outlawed (make no mistake, that is HSUS's goal) would be a dumb thing to do.


When you are in Timbucktoo, South Dakota and your dog is hit by a grain truck going 90 MPH or in Moose Jaw, UP and your dog gets whacked by a porky tail with 200+ quills into the nose, throat and eyes, who 'ya gonna call

Will you whip out that list ?? 

OTOH, if your regular Vet or his/her office makes negative remarks about your hunting dogs, I'd find another Veterinarian fast too. That persons just not too smart. And its not smart business either.



NB


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## FREEPOP

Yes it would be neglectful to deny your animal immediate care in an extreme emergency but it would also be self defeating to fund a cause that would take away one of the primary reasons for having the animal.


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## Seaarkshooter

NATTY BUMPO said:


> When you are in Timbucktoo, South Dakota and your dog is hit by a grain truck going 90 MPH or in Moose Jaw, UP and your dog gets whacked by a porky tail with 200+ quills into the nose, throat and eyes, who 'ya gonna call
> 
> Will you whip out that list ??
> 
> NB


No, but if you're planning a snow goose hunt around York, Saskatchewan and need that vet list or a name of a Native American waterfowl guide that believes in why its important to harvest canis lupis, just pm me. Those I do have.

2014: Vote Yes For Conservation


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## S.B. Walleyes&Waterfowl

That's a pretty long list....

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## Jim58

kek25 said:


> The statistics found on this website concerning the dove hunting issue are telling:
> 
> http://www.stopshootingdoves.org/
> 
> In my opinion, the goal of the animal advocacy groups is to get these issues on the ballot where they know they will receive overwhelming support from the voters -- painting hunters as the faction that is attempting to take away the right of voters on these issues.
> 
> Taken from the above referenced site:
> 
> ". . On November 7, 2006, Michigan voters overwhelmingly rejected the shooting of mourning doves. *More Michigan citizens voted No on Proposal 3 than voted for any candidate for statewide elective office, or voted for or against any other contested ballot proposal. A No vote on Proposal 3 prevailed in all 83 Michigan counties*!" [emphasis added]
> 
> Whether or not your vet believes in keeping certain species off the game list is of very little significance. After the wolf legislation was passed, the advocacy groups were able to amass over a quarter million signatures within 67 days in an effort to get the issue on the ballot for 2014.
> 
> There has to be a much better method of informing the general public of the hunters' point of view backed by credible facts. The bickering over these issues by hunters, such as being exhibited on a small scale here, exemplifies our trouble in getting the word out in a manner that invokes public support.


 Actually the "bickering" as you put it is not the issue at all. The issue is that we are facing a group of activist who are gathered around one common cause while we are made up of a group of people who can't decide which side of the fence they are on. They may fish a little and hunt a little, or maybe even shoot a little but in many cases don't take a firm stance on anything because they may have worked in a given sector, or don't hunt that type of game or shoot that type of gun, so they sit on the fence thinking someone else will take a stance for that thing I don't participate in and we end up with a splintered group with no common cause.

We in fact should be having more discussions like this one to get people to realize that even though it may be a little painful or step on a few toes or not be what I am most interested in we must still stand up for it as a whole and not as an individual. It may be a little ugly at first and look bad on the outside or hurt some feelings but until we fix what is hampering sportsman as a whole in our fight against the various anti groups we have little chance of success.


I spent some time in a hot parking lot this summer discussing with, and trying to educate a petitioner (advocating stopping the wolf hunt) and the line of people that blindly stepped up to sign their names without any knowledge about the issues. After showing pictures and explaining what was happening to dogs and livestock some even changed their minds. The person taking signatures was not to be swayed nor very happy with me. I point this out only because I don't recall seing myself or anyone else at any other such signature gatherings around the area this summer.....Shame on me...:sad:


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## Mike McDonald

I would strongly encourage those of you that truely believe in this boycott to stay away from the Northern Lower Peninsula and Eastern Upper Peninsula. Three people on the list are three of the primary providers of veterinary emergency care north of Gaylord and east of Newberry. I'd hate to see you put in the position of compromising your political beliefs or depriving your hunting companion of needed emergency services so that you wouldn't have to compromise your political beliefs. Believe me I really don't care what you do, what you believe in, or where you take your business. The third component particularly applies to my business. I do however hate hypocrisy. 
Mike McDonald DVM


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## Seaarkshooter

Mike McDonald said:


> Believe me I really don't care what you do, what you believe in, or where you take your business. The third component particularly applies to my business. I do however hate hypocrisy.
> Mike McDonald DVM


Where is your business located then?

Bay Pines Veterinary Clinic
8769 M119 Highway
Harbor Springs, MI 49740
231-347-4552

Is this correct? 

I will take the time today to ask the other veterinarians in your office if they feel the same as you do.

2014: Vote Yes For Conservation


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## Jim58

Mike McDonald said:


> I would strongly encourage those of you that truely believe in this boycott to stay away from the Northern Lower Peninsula and Eastern Upper Peninsula. Three people on the list are three of the primary providers of veterinary emergency care north of Gaylord and east of Newberry. I'd hate to see you put in the position of compromising your political beliefs or depriving your hunting companion of needed emergency services so that you wouldn't have to compromise your political beliefs. Believe me I really don't care what you do, what you believe in, or where you take your business. The third component particularly applies to my business. I do however hate hypocrisy.
> Mike McDonald DVM


 As my post (#28) alluded to we are forced into doing many things we are not in favor of or don't hold the same political belief as but that does not mean we should we should fall to our knees and wave the white flag because we need the service provided. We still can take a stand, part of which can be exposing the beliefs and political stances of these business or political organizations just as they have chosen to take said stances.


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## Jim58

Mike McDonald said:


> I do however hate hypocrisy.
> Mike McDonald DVM


"Pot meet kettle"


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## Mike McDonald

Seaarkshooter said:


> Where is your business located then?
> 
> Bay Pines Veterinary Clinic
> 8769 M119 Highway
> Harbor Springs, MI 49740
> 
> Is this correct?
> 
> I will take the time today to ask the other veterinarians in your office if they feel the same as you do.
> 
> 2014: Vote Yes For Conservation


Yes that is me. If that is a question you need to ask have at it.


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## WestCoastHunter

Find a way to increase the number of hunters in the state and the problem is solved.

People who don't hunt generally have the attitude of "nature will sort it out." People who don't have a vested interest in the state of game animals are neither going to understand the problem or care.

Finding ways to increase access to quality hunting land close to home would be a good start.


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## kek25

Of course it was. If this was a negative comment about attorneys I would have been on the defensive; if it was a negative comment about union workers I suspect a brother/sister union member would have been on the defensive; etc; etc;

It's up to us to realize this early on and not fan the flames.


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## Hevi

I did read Mike's first post. I can also hear him saying the exact same thing that he typed. I can say that because I know Mike. I have had conversations with Mike. He doesn't pull punches, he doesn't add fluff, and he tells it like it is. Just like he did. It's one of the things that I like most about Mike. 

Jim, don't think because I disagreed with you that I have some sort of beef here. I was giving my $.02 like everyone is entitled to...including you. I respect your opinion and your stance. I actually wish I could be more passionate about some issues and respect you for that also. I was playing Devil's advocate here because I thought it was necessary.

Everyone have a safe and successful hunting season. I'm not going hunting after all. I'm going to buy a new *crossbow* target for my wife.


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## griffondog

I posted this list to allow you all to make your own decisions. I'm happy to say that this post has caused some of these vets to lose customers. I and most of my friends will not use these vets under any circumstances. I will not be spending any of my money ever again at any Indian Casinos or any business that supports HSUS in any manor period. I and my friends will continue to hit them in the pocket books in any legal way I can. If they shouldn't be on the list I would suggest they get a hold of the HSUS Puppet KMWP and threaten legal action to protect there name and business. 

Griff


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## WestCoastHunter

I find this thread mildly amusing for one reason alone, it's about putting faith in a government organization. 

I wonder if everyone will like it very much if an anti hunting senate and governor ever get elected in Michigan and appoint enough people to the NRC to change things. What they can give, they can also take away. 

I don't like ballot measures either. They are the reason people can't blood track wounded game with a dog or hunt bear and mountain lions with dogs out here in WA. The initiative process and HSUS supported groups killed hound hunting here. 

But I see a double edged sword here and I stand by my earlier post, if hunters numbers can't be boosted in coming years things look very bleak. People without skin in the game as hunters won't vote our way.

I don't see boycotts doing much good. It's a numbers game at this point and we're headed towards the losing end.


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## WestCoastHunter

On the flip side, this thread is also refreshing. At least you're trying to get something done. Out here I see guys posting about how wolves were or were not legally released to the point of making my eyes bleed. For example...

http://nwsportsmanmag.com/editors-blog/calling-bs-on-a-wolf-story/

or 

http://cryingwolfmovie.com/

The opinion piece is dated, but don't think the argument has stopped.


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## I'm with Brandy

I am very happy with my new vet in TC Dana Navidonski, DVM at the Bay Area pet hospital. She trained and bred cattle dogs as part of family farm. She understand working dog needs.


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## BIGSP

Haven't read the whole thread but here's my take. Just because these vets are anti wolf hunting doesn't mean they are anti-hunting. If this were my vet I would engage them in a conversation and get their thoughts. Vets are typically very smart people but they may not be fully informed of the situation. Use it as a teaching experience and its a win win.


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## Jim58

BIGSP said:


> Haven't read the whole thread but here's my take. Just because these vets are anti wolf hunting doesn't mean they are anti-hunting. If this were my vet I would engage them in a conversation and get their thoughts. Vets are typically very smart people but they may not be fully informed of the situation. Use it as a teaching experience and its a win win.


I hate it when someone takes the high road and ruins my rant. :beer::thumbup:

Sent from my XT907 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## BIGSP

Jim58 said:


> I hate it when someone takes the high road and ruins my rant. :beer::thumbup:
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Me too. It usually happens to me. Ill spout off something behind the keyboard without really thinking it through. Look hunting is emotionally for us. We have tons of time, money and effort into our sport and we are passionate about it. We just need to be smart too.


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## birdogjoe

Steffan Molle, in holly, great vet and really cares for the animal.


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## FREEPOP

Drama. 

I'm with Griffondog and will research to make choices to not allow any of my money to go to the antis.


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## dx3

Who cares if your in a bind & have to use an anti hunting vet in an emergency? I just won't give them a dime for my standard visits & meds.


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## omega58

There were a couple businesses that were on the save the doves website and I called them and asked them about it. They had no idea why they were on there. 

So my advice in this is call the business and see if they know they are listed.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Legallyblonde

omega58 said:


> There were a couple businesses that were on the save the doves website and I called them and asked them about it. They had no idea why they were on there.
> 
> So my advice in this is call the business and see if they know they are listed.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Ditto. That's what I was saying in my earlier post. 

And with regards to the Native Americans being opposed, I have more respect for their position than for most others. Their opposition is based in religious and cultural beliefs and not based on anti-hunting feelings and distorted facts. I can't even read the Keep Michigan Wolves Protected "fact" sheet without wanting to explode it's so twisted.


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## WestCoastHunter

Legallyblonde said:


> Ditto. That's what I was saying in my earlier post.
> 
> And with regards to the Native Americans being opposed, I have more respect for their position than for most others. Their opposition is based in religious and cultural beliefs and not based on anti-hunting feelings and distorted facts. I can't even read the Keep Michigan Wolves Protected "fact" sheet without wanting to explode it's so twisted.


My guess is the tribes will support hunting them when they perceive them as a problem. We have a tribe that is hunting them out here in WA, where the wolves are still protected. But game animals help in part to feed their members so it's in their interest to control their numbers on their lands. Again, skin in the game.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A2Brit

There have been some pretty Snarky comments made about the vet program at MSU. Having paid for 8 years of high quality college for my youngest daughter (DMV Class of 2008...Go Green..Go White), I take offense. My "girl" (I WAS surprised at how high the percentage of females was, until I saw how little they were paid in relation to other "doctors dedicated to large animals, and has excelled. She is not a hunter, but was raised in a home where I hunted on a regular basis. She has had the kind of extracurricular education that makes her well aware of the need for balance in nature, as well as how hunting plays a part in the overall scheme. Just because she doesn't hunt doesn't mean she doesnt support hunting. Last year her husband killed his first buck...a nice 9 point. After he and his father struggled, SHE took over the butchering, and did a great job...MUCH better than I could have. Instead of just boycotting these vets, why not at least make an attempt to inform them...many have NOT been exposed to OUR side of the story!


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## aimus1

griffondog said:


> I posted this list to allow you all to make your own decisions. I'm happy to say that this post has caused some of these vets to lose customers. I and most of my friends will not use these vets under any circumstances. I will not be spending any of my money ever again at any Indian Casinos or any business that supports HSUS in any manor period. I and my friends will continue to hit them in the pocket books in any legal way I can. If they shouldn't be on the list I would suggest they get a hold of the HSUS Puppet KMWP and threaten legal action to protect there name and business.
> 
> Griff


 Yessir...damn right we just let our dogs die. The damn vet that could have saved their lives doesn't like the idea of wolf hunting. Don't give a damn about the money and time we had invested in those vermin. We committed ourselves to hit em right in their pockets! Now we're headed out to buy new bird dogs to get trained and taken care of by the vet who likes wolf hunting. Wait a minutee....who's pocket am I hitting?
:lol:


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## FREEPOP

A2Brit said:


> There have been some pretty Snarky comments made about the vet program at MSU. Having paid for 8 years of high quality college for my youngest daughter (DMV Class of 2008...Go Green..Go White), I take offense. My "girl" (I WAS surprised at how high the percentage of females was, until I saw how little they were paid in relation to other "doctors dedicated to large animals, and has excelled. She is not a hunter, but was raised in a home where I hunted on a regular basis. She has had the kind of extracurricular education that makes her well aware of the need for balance in nature, as well as how hunting plays a part in the overall scheme. Just because she doesn't hunt doesn't mean she doesnt support hunting. Last year her husband killed his first buck...a nice 9 point. After he and his father struggled, SHE took over the butchering, and did a great job...MUCH better than I could have. Instead of just boycotting these vets, why not at least make an attempt to inform them...many have NOT been exposed to OUR side of the story!


Isn't it DVM not DMV


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## griffondog

aimus1 said:


> Yessir...damn right we just let our dogs die. The damn vet that could have saved their lives doesn't like the idea of wolf hunting. Don't give a damn about the money and time we had invested in those vermin. We committed ourselves to hit em right in their pockets! Now we're headed out to buy new bird dogs to get trained and taken care of by the vet who likes wolf hunting. Wait a minutee....who's pocket am I hitting?
> :lol:


Thank you for your concern on my dogs safety. I can assure you that my dogs would and have received better care in a emergency than most people and yourself are able to provide in such a situation. I assure you that these people are not the only ones in Michigan who are able to provide care for a injured animal. I once had a appointment for a knee injury with a doctor who had separate waiting rooms for men and women. A sign asked the women to also please cover their head with a scarf. My knee is fine without his services and I'm quite sure my dogs will survive if I choose not to spend my money with people who offend me. 


Griff


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## aimus1

I don't provide care for animals in emergency situations unless it's my own animal or a hunting partners animal in the field with whatevers in the dog first aid kit. Then it's only what has to be done immediately before rushing to a vet. I'm not a doctor.
I do however know of a vet who disagrees with wolf hinting. I strongly disagree with their point of view but my ego isnt so big that I'd say I'm offended by it. And I wouldn't hesitate to pay for services on my hunting dogs because I also personally know of this vet's commitment to providing the absolute highest caliber of veterianry care. Excellence in veterinary care is what I'd be paying for. I could care less what the doctors view on abortion, gay rights, religion, or wolf hunting are. I only mention the first three as I believe these are the biggest bull **** factors that sway voters. As I believe a doctor's opinion on wolf hunting also to be....the least of my worries. I guess I'm just a "bigger picture" kinda dude.
Fact is that it's likely every place I patronize with my hard earned dollars most likely has an owner, share holder, employee etc. with political opinions which I don't personally share. This I can accept witout being personally offended.

I'm going hunting.


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