# Maximum range for iron sights?



## SmallGameStalker (Mar 5, 2005)

What's the maximum useful range for iron sights on a rifle? Since small game season ended I've been occupying my free time with my Winchester Model 61 at the rifle range and was wondering to what level of accuracy I can hope for. 

The rifle is very accurate, at this point, it's probably more accurate than I am, but it's not drilled & tapped for any kind of a scope mount, and has only an open notched rear sight and a "bead on a post" front sight. I'm hoping to take it small game hunting this year.


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## Burksee (Jan 15, 2003)

I'd have to say the only limitations would be 1) your eyesight, 2) your ability, 3) the effective range of your gun and 4) your overall confidence.

One more thing; The only real way to get good at something is to Practice, Practice, Practice!  

Anyone see the movie "Quigley" with Tom Selleck? Now that was some down right fine iron sight shoot'in! :woohoo1:


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## SmallGameStalker (Mar 5, 2005)

Burksee said:


> I'd have to say the only limitations would be 1) your eyesight, 2) your ability, 3) the effective range of your gun and 4) your overall confidence.
> 
> One more thing; The only real way to get good at something is to Practice, Practice, Practice!
> 
> Anyone see the movie "Quigley" with Tom Selleck? Now that was some down right fine iron sight shoot'in! :woohoo1:


As was Sean Connery's shooting in _The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen_, 500 and 900 yard shots with a .50 double-barrelled rifle. Unfortunately, both were fictional and had the advantage of a good script and lots of special effects. If I had all of that, I'm sure I too, could hit well with my .22 out to 900 yards. :lol:

My eyesight isn't the best, but I correct it with contacts. Shooting is a skill, so my ability can improve as I practice. Any suggestions for practice beyond putting in trigger time at the range. Are there any shooting exercises that I can do to improve my shooting?


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## kumma (Jul 12, 2002)

Set up some targets with the vitals size of your intended critter at range and go from there. For me its pretty much 50 yards with my winchester 30-30 to hit a pie plate and 100 yards to hit same target with savage 99. All with some sort of support. Freehand with no support, well thats anyones guess. I just dont shoot enought to hunt with these so my go to rifle has a nice scope.


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## Rupestris (Aug 25, 2000)

well, for me it depends on how big the target is.


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## jmoser (Sep 11, 2002)

If at all possible change to a rear 'peep' style aperature sight. The open 'V' or notch sights are very imprecise in comparison.

Most lever guns can accept a tang-mounted peep from Lyman, etc.
In addition to the aperature the sight radius is extended significantly vs. the barrel mounted factory rear sight. It is also much easier to maintain front sight focus with a peep rear. Some peep models allow you to screw in different size aperatures, from tiny to large holes.

With a setup like this you should be able to hit your 10" kill zone target out to 100 yards with reasonable ease. The buffalo hunters used these sights out to ranges of 300 yards and beyond, although they usually had the luxury of multiple shots.

If your eyesight does not allow iron sights please take advantage of decent optics.

No matter what sights you use, please remember to practice, practice, practice.


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## Mickey Finn (Jan 21, 2005)

Rupestris said:


> well, for me it depends on how big the target is.


Same here! I read once, on the Mitchell's Mauser web sight, that Iron sights and human eyes work together out two 200 yds. I think this is very general.

Hi-power rifle competions go out to 1000 yds. With military sights.


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## SmallGameStalker (Mar 5, 2005)

jmoser said:


> If at all possible change to a rear 'peep' style aperature sight. The open 'V' or notch sights are very imprecise in comparison.
> 
> Most lever guns can accept a tang-mounted peep from Lyman, etc.
> In addition to the aperature the sight radius is extended significantly vs. the barrel mounted factory rear sight. It is also much easier to maintain front sight focus with a peep rear. Some peep models allow you to screw in different size aperatures, from tiny to large holes.
> ...


Just for clarification, the Win. Model 61 is a slide-action (pump-action) rifle, chambered in .22 short, long and long-rifle with an enclosed hammer, a 14-round (long rifle) tubular magazine and open sights. I'm going to be hunting squirrels and rabbits with it, not deer :lol:

I agree that peep rear sights are much better than open notch rear sights. However, this rifle was given to me by my late grandfather and I really don't want to change much of anything on it.

I'm mainly interested in how good I can become with it as is. I have about five bricks worth of ammo for it and plan on getting in all the practice I can with it. After all, target practice and hunting are the fun parts of life, the rest is just details. :lol:


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## Mickey Finn (Jan 21, 2005)

Oh, 50 yds then. Have fun.


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## Randy Kidd (Apr 21, 2001)

It's all about the shooter...Check this out,


http://www.oldwestlibrary.com/OWL/adobewalls.htm

The second day after the initial attack, fifteen warriors rode out on a bluff nearly a mile away to survey the situation. Some reports indicate they were taunting the Adobe Walls defenders but, at the distance involved, it seems unlikely. At the behest of one of the hunters, Billy Dixon, already renowned as a crack shot, took aim with a 'Big Fifty' Sharps {it was either a .50&endash;70 or &endash;90, probably the latter} he'd borrowed from Hanrahan, and cleanly dropped a warrior from atop his horse. This apparently so discouraged the Indians they decamped and gave up the fight.

Two weeks later a team of US Army surveyors, under the command of Nelson A. Miles, measured the distance of the shot: 1,538 yards, or nine-tenths of a mile. For the rest of his life, Billy Dixon never claimed the shot was anything other than a lucky one; his memoirs do not devote even a full paragraph to 'the shot'.


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## SmallGameStalker (Mar 5, 2005)

OK, I'm going to see if I can push it out to 100 yards this week with CCI Stingers and Velocitors.


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## Gil Martin (Jan 18, 2003)

As these good folks have pointed out, a lot depends on the gun, the shooter, the sights and the position. That combined with a lot of practice will extend the range a bit. Good luck at 100 yards with your .22 rifle. All the best...
Gil


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## Ryandumas (Apr 17, 2005)

I was just medically discharged from the army. So I still remember some of the things I learned. And I can tell you the cause of most missed targets was bad trigger pull I used to shoot out to 300 yards without a problem with iron sights. That was with proper trigger pull. One way to pratice this is to take one section of cleaning rod and insert it in your rifle with about 4 inches hanging out the end then have someone place a washer or dime on its side on the end of the rod and practice pulling the trigger. The idea here is to keep the dime on the cleaning rod. You want just the tip of your index finger on the trigger and make sure you pull straight back. Also breathing is a big factor. Breath in then out then breathin almost all the way hold your breath and then fire. One other thing that has helped me out is to let the rifle stock rest in your open hand do not wrap your hand around the barrel. Anyways just my 2 cents good luck


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## redneckdan (Dec 14, 2004)

With my VZ-24 and a Williams 5D reciever sight, I can place 9 outta 10 in a paper plate at 300 yards. This is from a prone position with sling and lots of practice; lots and lots and lotsa practice.

My longest shot on a crow with a .22 rimfire was on august 18th of 2004 at 187 yds with a remington 512 and 6x scope shooting eley subsonic match. To hit at that range you must know the distance of the target to the yard and be intimately familar with the balisitics of your rifle and the elevation adjustment for given ranges. As for optics, buy the best; I know it looks stupid but I have a leupold FX-II 6x36mm on my rimfire.


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## lwingwatcher (Mar 25, 2001)

You have received a ton of good advice on this thread....it all depends.

When I was a kid, I used to shoot competitive small bore and could hold my own. When I bought my first deer rifle (a Ruger .44 mag) and sighted it in....I was just not content with the groups as I knew that I could shoot better than the gun was enabling me to. So, I went right out and purchased a 2.5X scope and mounted it. Needless to say, my groups improved drastically and for years I have relied on optics to maximize the effectiveness of all my rifles.

But, that is not to say that you can't practice enough to be as good as your equipment will let you.

What is that saying "aim small, miss small" or something like that?l


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## Randy Kidd (Apr 21, 2001)

I know it sounds silly..But I watced the trick shot guy on Jim Stoutens old shooting show hit something like five out of six baloons with a out of the box, .38 Chiefs Special, with a 2 inch barrel..He was shooting at 300 yards..Now if he can do it, anybody can..just gotta learn how :lol:


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## SmallGameStalker (Mar 5, 2005)

Randy Kidd said:


> I know it sounds silly..But I watced the trick shot guy on Jim Stoutens old shooting show hit something like five out of six baloons with a out of the box, .38 Chiefs Special, with a 2 inch barrel..He was shooting at 300 yards..Now if he can do it, anybody can..just gotta learn how :lol:


Randy, when I first skimmed your post, I misread "balloons" as "baboons." My first though was, ".38 Special seems a bit light to use on them, I'd go more for a .44 Magnum, myself." :lol: Then I re-read it and all became clear. 

Now that I have the target straight, yeah that is some impressive shooting! How to learn that skill is the next step. I know there's the trial and error route, and the Carnegie Hall route (practice, practice, practice), are there any good books on what to practice while at the range?


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