# Moving a ceiling light



## ih772 (Jan 28, 2003)

buckslayerII said:


> I agree this would be the best. Currently, the fixture is switched by a 3-way configuration, so I really want to see how it's done before I decide. I could remove the 3-way since it really doesn't make sense to have it that way anyways.
> 
> Another option we talked about last night was to leave the existing box and loop the chain over to where we want it hung from and use a hook. Obviously, we've all seen this done. HOwever, if we go with a chain-hung fixture, it's most likely have two chains. Anyone ever done this with two chains and if so, how'd it look?


It will have 14-2 wire running up to it, so you won't have to get into the 3-way wiring.

The hook and chain will work too. This method is the least amount of work and doesn't look too bad either.


----------



## sweatyspartan (May 24, 2004)

buckslayerII said:


> Did you use 4" or 6" cans? For undercabinet, did you just use one of those plug-in halogen or LED bars from Home Depot?


I did 4" cans...I think the 6s look a bit too industrial but thats me.

for my UC lighting I used these in the one light variety:

http://www.seagulllighting.com/pc25-sc2-pg1/Task-Lights.htm

Not sure if you have the ability to tap into electrical other than plugs because these are all hardwired at my place.

Also - when I tore into my kitchen I got rid of the soffits. In an older house with 8' ceilings I wanted that extra space and the ability to do bigger cabinets. Luckily I only had a stink pipe that went through my soffit and I was able to replace that with a ventless one. I was able to get a staggered cabinet look with crown which is what we were after.

my cabinets were attached to the soffit but the cabinets were crap so I replaced with new.


----------



## sullyxlh (Oct 28, 2004)

buckslayerII said:


> I agree this would be the best. Currently, the fixture is switched by a 3-way configuration, so I really want to see how it's done before I decide. I could remove the 3-way since it really doesn't make sense to have it that way anyways.
> 
> Another option we talked about last night was to leave the existing box and loop the chain over to where we want it hung from and use a hook. Obviously, we've all seen this done. HOwever, if we go with a chain-hung fixture, it's most likely have two chains. Anyone ever done this with two chains and if so, how'd it look?


Not always best.
Your between floors you will have drywall damage,
you have stapled wires and firestopped holes so your possibly looking at drilling new.
We're trying to get this done with no damage at all.

If you go with cans you can take the wire back to one and splice in a new wire there and use that junction box.

Before you go hog wild on the spreader bar you need to determine your joist spacing they're a 16" min 
so if you have a drywall nailer or back to back joists giving you less than 16 it won't work

You need to confirm there is only one romex in there 
and the existing box isn't being used as a splice box for that circuit or feed thru for something else.

Your also assuming that wire is in the same cavity and not running parallel in another cavity and coming over a joist
Have we confirmed which way the joists run?

And If there are ducts or water pipes or cold air returns?

Hook and chains are for rentals not your personal home
although easy it just doesn't look professional.

As been said you can't bury a splice but depending on how the floor above is laid out
it may possible to find a wall above that falls in the same cavity and 
take the wire to a cut in box above and splice on a longer wire there and drop it back down, 
this can be done with no repair to anything.

If the 3-way switches are both the only means to illuminate the room from which ever way you enter it, they have to stay (code)
if there are other means to light the room from said entries
one can be eliminated.

UC lights-
Determine if you want accent light or useable light and go from there
Stay away from Halogens, the filaments are delicate and you'll find yourself replacing them often and they're not energy efficient 
not to mention the heat the produce.
If ya can swing it go LED's if not slimline fluorescents they run a T3 bulb and 
you'll have more choices in the type of light spectrum to fit your decor.

As for cans, been doing a lot of 5" cans lately,
seems to be a good median for those not wanting something too big or too small.


----------



## buckslayerII (Jan 4, 2005)

sullxlh - great points in your entire post. Things I've considered, but can't really answer until I get up there and see what's up with the existing box and wiring. I suppose if we go back to my original question, I now know that there are options on the market to place a box between floor joists.

What I do know : I know which way the floor joists run and they're on 16" centers. This fixture currently is and will still be for a light over the kitchen table. There is other lighting in the room, and I have no idea why it's on a 3-way based on where the second switch is (we use only the one 99.9% of the time). The cans will be in the kitchen (which is open to the dining area), with power coming from the existing box from the center mounted fixture. I'm actually thinking I might put the table light on one switch and "steal" the other location (from the 3-way) to allow for 2 banks of cans in the kitchen.

My wife said she liked the 5" cans. Others have told me to shy away since they're more expensive and have less options for baffles/reflectors/whatever they're called. Are they wrong?


----------



## sullyxlh (Oct 28, 2004)

buckslayerII said:


> My wife said she liked the 5" cans. Others have told me to shy away since they're more expensive and have less options for baffles/reflectors/whatever they're called. Are they wrong?


No, they're correct on all counts but if you go with a basic baffle trim and you'd be using cut in style cans and not new work cans it's not that much more.
it's when you get into specialty trims and insulated rated new work cans is when it gets pricey


----------



## wirenut (Jan 17, 2011)

buckslayerII said:


> I want to move an existing chandelier fixture about 15-18". I'm wondering how to install the new box into a finished ceiling. I'm hoping there is some type of box available for these retroifts. I haven't yet looked, so I don't know how close to a joist the existing box is located. If it's close, I can screw into it, but if it's in between two joists, how do I attach the new box? Oh, and the move will not cross any joists. Thanks.


 Westinghouse makes a fan rated box you can use like some of the other replies you have been receiving have said, also you can make a big hole in the ceiling, remove the staple, relocate the box and cover the big hole with a decorative cover also available at any of the home centers or electrical wholesale shops.


----------



## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

This may be just my thinking, but I wouldn't worry about access through the drywall. I'd cut it out between the joists. Do your electrical work, install a proper box, and then just reinstall the drywall. If you use a keyhole saw and do it right, you can even reuse the piece that you cut out to patch the hole. I've done it many times. Drywall patching isn't that hard and it will make your life a LOT easier to open up the space, do your work, and then patch the hole(s).

About five or six years ago I did a pretty big remodel job for a client. I ended up installing about six or eight recessed cans on the first floor of a two story home. I just had to cut a few access holes to run the wire and mount the fixtures but it came out great and wasn't that big of a deal.

John


----------



## buckslayerII (Jan 4, 2005)

jpollman said:


> This may be just my thinking, but I wouldn't worry about access through the drywall. I'd cut it out between the joists. Do your electrical work, install a proper box, and then just reinstall the drywall. If you use a keyhole saw and do it right, you can even reuse the piece that you cut out to patch the hole. I've done it many times. Drywall patching isn't that hard and it will make your life a LOT easier to open up the space, do your work, and then patch the hole(s).
> 
> About five or six years ago I did a pretty big remodel job for a client. I ended up installing about six or eight recessed cans on the first floor of a two story home. I just had to cut a few access holes to run the wire and mount the fixtures but it came out great and wasn't that big of a deal.
> 
> John


Now that's an interesting approach John.


----------



## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

It works out pretty well. About a year ago I did a remodel of my neighbor's family room. I stripped the paneling off of the walls and did some work on the wall above the fireplace where I mounted his big screen TV. I built book cases on either side and ran all of the wiring for his Dolby 7.1 surround system. He went with ceiling speakers for the middle and rear channels. It was a roughly 14x20 room. I just cut a couple access openings in the ceiling drywall. One right in the center of the room, and one in the center side to side but in line with where the rear channel speakers were to be mounted. I ran the wiring for those speakers up into the attic and fished them into a piece of 1" PVC pipe sitting on the trusses and right down the middle of the room. The pipe stopped right in line with where the middle channel speakers were to be installed. Then I just cut the circular holes for each of the ceiling speakers and the square access opening that I cut in the center line of the room allowed me to get up and run the wire over to and out of the speaker hole on each side. It also allowed me access to run some wiring for recessed lights. When the speakers and lights were all wired, I just had two square openings to fill. I was careful removing the pieces so I just reinstalled the pieces that I had cut out. A little bit of tape and mud and you can't even tell I was in there after it was painted. After that portion of the job was done, I hung drywall on the walls instead of paneling. Finished and painted it and it was all set. He's got a pretty nice home theater room now!

John


----------



## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

Oh yeah, where are you located buckslayerII? 

If you aren't too far from me, I wouldn't mind dropping by and taking a look. I may be able to save you some headaches. 

John


----------



## buckslayerII (Jan 4, 2005)

Thanks for the offer John, but not very close to Rochester Hills. I'm up in NW corner - Boyne areas.


----------



## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

Ok no sweat. I just wasn't sure where you were located and I've got some time on my hands right now due to some issues. I figured it would give me something to do for a bit and maybe save you some headaches. 

John


----------



## ih772 (Jan 28, 2003)

jpollman said:


> This may be just my thinking, but I wouldn't worry about access through the drywall. I'd cut it out between the joists. Do your electrical work, install a proper box, and then just reinstall the drywall. If you use a keyhole saw and do it right, you can even reuse the piece that you cut out to patch the hole. I've done it many times. Drywall patching isn't that hard and it will make your life a LOT easier to open up the space, do your work, and then patch the hole(s).
> 
> About five or six years ago I did a pretty big remodel job for a client. I ended up installing about six or eight recessed cans on the first floor of a two story home. I just had to cut a few access holes to run the wire and mount the fixtures but it came out great and wasn't that big of a deal.
> 
> John


John, how are you doing electrical work? You're not in the state's database as being a licensed electrical contractor, licensed master electrician, a licensed journeyman or even a registered electrician's apprentice. I see you are a licensed builder but that's all.

http://www7.dleg.state.mi.us/bcclicense/

You're a nice guy and you really should read the link below before you get yourself into a heap of trouble. You never know who is reading this site and will wonder why John Pollman is admitting to personally doing electrical work (that he isn't licensed for) in excess value of $100 as part of his business.

*ELECTRICAL ADMINISTRATIVE ACT*
*Act 217 of 1956*
Take special note of sections:
338.881
338.890

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28opqrgzyola3hnliflltq1vn0%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=mcl-act-217-of-1956&queryid=39209&highlight=

I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, I'd just hate to see you end up in trouble for doing something you might not know isn't allowed without a electrical license.

Take care.


----------



## buckslayerII (Jan 4, 2005)

After thinking about this a bit more, how do electricians drill wire passage holes through floor joist to run wiring in between can lights in remodels? If possible, I'd rather not have to patch ceiling drywall.


----------



## buckslayerII (Jan 4, 2005)

Any opinions on track lighting or cans for a kitchen with only 8' ceilings? My concern is that with the lower height, it won't blend in and "disappear" as it would with taller celings. The advantages are obvious in that I don't have to get the layout correct the first time and it could all be installed from below utilizing my existing feed.


----------

