# Asian Carp Food plume



## walranger5

There's a link to an article about a giant sediment plume in Lake Michigan, seems to cover the bottom half of the Lake (picture from space, Jan 11/2011) In the weeky news of the Great Lakes sport fishing council. This "bottom sediment" plume is full of tons of food for Filter feeding Asian carp. Perhaps one of you could post the link here.
You see the picture, you see the problem. Documented, Asian Carp eat sediment, (detirus) up in the water column, makes it easy.


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## diztortion

Here's the picture from 1/11/2011 .. convincing..


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## wartfroggy

walranger5 said:


> There's a link to an article about a giant sediment plume in Lake Michigan, seems to cover the bottom half of the Lake (picture from space, Jan 11/2011) In the weeky news of the Great Lakes sport fishing council. This "bottom sediment" plume is full of tons of food for Filter feeding Asian carp. Perhaps one of you could post the link here.
> You see the picture, you see the problem. Documented, Asian Carp eat sediment, (detirus) up in the water column, makes it easy.


 I took the time to tell you how to use the "copy" and "paste" functions....did it not work for you? Keep practicing. If you are going to save the earth with perch, you cannot rely on others to post all of your links for you.


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## diztortion

I found this article.

http://greatlakesecho.org/2011/01/11/satellite-watch-lake-michigans-tendril-plume/

It mentions nothing about huge supplies of food for asian carp. 

It also mentioned it was from a month ago.

Wouldn't stirring up all that food be good for the perch?


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## wartfroggy

diztortion said:


> Wouldn't stirring up all that food be good for the perch?


 Don't confuse him with facts. 
I am pretty sure that he can't read anything that we write anyways, because he just answers different questions and ignores anything that goes against his opinion. 

Asian carp eat the same things that perch do, but alewives are still an invasive species.


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## Steven Arend

So that's where all the sand went from the beachs down here on the southern lower end of the lake!

Steve


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## walranger5

wartfroggy said:


> I took the time to tell you how to use the "copy" and "paste" functions....did it not work for you? Keep practicing. If you are going to save the earth with perch, you cannot rely on others to post all of your links for you.


 I prefer the search thing. I never wanted to own a computer ever. The facts are the same regardless. Perch wont save the lakes, nature will. Perch will help, Salmon will not!


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## walranger5

diztortion said:


> I found this article.
> 
> http://greatlakesecho.org/2011/01/11/satellite-watch-lake-michigans-tendril-plume/
> 
> It mentions nothing about huge supplies of food for asian carp.
> 
> It also mentioned it was from a month ago.
> 
> Wouldn't stirring up all that food be good for the perch?


 Yes it is, like you said stirring up the food. Good year classes of Perch and other fish, they say came from years where storms and such "stirred up the food" up into the water column during spawn/spring. This is also the plankton and crap on the bottom that Asian Carp eat. So when they say there's no food in lake Michigan, the facts seem to differ. It was a month ago, I just found it on the sport council site. Asian Carp filter out food particles from the water column, as you can see, the water column is full of food. More storms will come, more food etc.. so believing Asian Carp will starve? They have a nasty habit of surviving.


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## walranger5

wartfroggy said:


> Don't confuse him with facts.
> I am pretty sure that he can't read anything that we write anyways, because he just answers different questions and ignores anything that goes against his opinion.
> 
> Asian carp eat the same things that perch do, but alewives are still an invasive species.


 Asian Carp eat the same things as LARVAL Perch do, and every other LARVAL fish, including alewives. You wanted facts, so I tried to get you to search the facts. Trying to paste all the studies is nuts, searching the terms that pull up all the studies is better.
This is not my opinion, it's the problems opinion, the solutions opinion, natures opinion. Nothing you have said changes the fact that alewives are an invasive species, attack me all you want. We can't save the lakes from invasive species and save the alewives at the same time. That's the whole problem.


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## wartfroggy

walranger5 said:


> Trying to paste all the studies is nuts, searching the terms that pull up all the studies is better.


Most people usually just post the link to the page.



walranger5 said:


> Nothing you have said changes the fact that alewives are an invasive species......


 For the 6,583,329th time..........NO ONE IS ARGUING that alewives are an invasive species. 

The only thing that is being questioned is..........
1) Can perch seriously fend off the carp? Doubtful. 
2) Can perch single-handedly control the alewive population? Doubtful.
3) With or without salmon, will the perch populations ever be like they once were when the lake was more fertile? Doubtful.


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## STEINFISHSKI

There is nothing we can do to reverse the course of invasive species. 

There are more than 140 types of invasive species in our great lakes.

The plume is NOT an Asian carp food plume.

http://www.ouramazingplanet.com/sediment-plume-tendril-lake-michigan-0965/

What's the impact of the plume on the ecology of Lake Michigan? Preliminary data on the community of microscopic plants and animals within the plume indicate that conditions there promote biological activity, possibly by providing increased supplies of phosphorus. Added phosphorus contributed by the plume, coupled with spring warming of lake water and increased sunlight may lead to higher overall food chain productivity in those years when the plume develops. In addition, because the tiny clay and silt particles of the plume will readily bind with PCB's or other contaminants in the lake water, the plume phenomenon may represent a natural mechanism that may help strip such harmful contaminants from lake water.


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## walranger5

wartfroggy said:


> Most people usually just post the link to the page.
> 
> 
> For the 6,583,329th time..........NO ONE IS ARGUING that alewives are an invasive species.
> 
> The only thing that is being questioned is..........
> 1) Can perch seriously fend off the carp? Doubtful.
> 2) Can perch single-handedly control the alewive population? Doubtful.
> 3) With or without salmon, will the perch populations ever be like they once were when the lake was more fertile? Doubtful.


 1. Carp control experts say yes, predators that feed like the Perch. Will they eat them all, predator type is key. Alewives have been documented to have eaten 100% of the Lake trout spawn attempt. So can a little fish control a big fish, the alewives have been proving it for years. I quote from the Asian carp website asiancarp.org Question and answer section Q. Do Asian carps have any predators? A. juvenile asian carps are percieved to avoid predators poorly (Chinese experts concur with this statement by the way) Q. What factors contribute to the sustainable population of asian carp in the great lakes? A. "MOST IMPORTANT of these include predator-prey interactions between the invading species and those in the new ecosystem" Since salmon can't survive warm water, and that's where baby carp will be, no interaction possible correct? Their words. 2. Single handedly? Didn't say that, I said of all the predators to chose from, Perch would be the best choice. The most effective, given the facts. Asian Carp are singlehandedly taking over? Zebra/Quagga mussels are singlehandedly taking over? (both same) Because they have numbers, and are "lacking" or predators are low, including us. 3. Lake seems to be plenty fertile for the invasives? Cutting the predators for alewives they increased? Gobies are increasing? Perch eat gobies, mussels are increasing, Perch eat mussels. Huron had zebras and the rest way before us, yet without alewives all native fish are bouncing back? Does this answer your questions O doubting Frog?


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## walranger5

STEINFISHSKI said:


> There is nothing we can do to reverse the course of invasive species.
> 
> There are more than 140 types of invasive species in our great lakes.
> 
> The plume is NOT an Asian carp food plume.
> 
> http://www.ouramazingplanet.com/sediment-plume-tendril-lake-michigan-0965/
> 
> What's the impact of the plume on the ecology of Lake Michigan? Preliminary data on the community of microscopic plants and animals within the plume indicate that conditions there promote biological activity, possibly by providing increased supplies of phosphorus. Added phosphorus contributed by the plume, coupled with spring warming of lake water and increased sunlight may lead to higher overall food chain productivity in those years when the plume develops. In addition, because the tiny clay and silt particles of the plume will readily bind with PCB's or other contaminants in the lake water, the plume phenomenon may represent a natural mechanism that may help strip such harmful contaminants from lake water.


 With respect, there is plenty we can do to reverse invasive species. Read the Saginaw Bay Recovery Plan, it worked, and it's basic principles will work anywhere. All those things are in the plume as well, but there's food in there. Asian Carp gill rakers, sort out the food, discharge the rest. The rotting stuff on the bottom, gets thrown up as well, (detrius) Common carp (cousins from back home) root around throwing food up into the water column, actually helps feed the asian carp. The found big head carp, that had learned how to root around for food. If clay is being thrown up, then plankton is as well. 140 invasive species and perch eat most of them, so we need more Perch, and little self control on our part. Just because we can keep them doesn't mean we should. Nobody is keeping invasive species, gives them an edge, if you will.


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## STEINFISHSKI

All opinion on your part. What makes you the expert in this arena? Why don't you show scientific evidence instead of sharing your opinion over and over on these matters.  If it were that simple something could easily be done about it, yet I have yet to see a shred of science to back your claims. I trust our biologists over your opinion, where did you get your degree? 

This back and forth without any science backing your theories up is tiring. You need to convince our leaders who make decisions anyway, not us.


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## wartfroggy

walranger5 said:


> The rotting stuff on the bottom, gets thrown up as well, (*detrius*) Common carp (cousins from back home) root around throwing food up into the water column, actually helps feed the asian carp.


 I do admire your attempt to use technical terms....but it is actually *detritus*. 
I do have to take Stein's side on this. How exactly did you get to be such the expert? Where did you study this? You keep saying to look at the "big picture", but you don't yourself. You are so focused on just the perch, that you don't see how the rest of the system works. You act as if having salmon means there are no perch. Or that removing salmon will mean tons of perch. Removing salmon will increase the alewive population by alot. You say that alewives are the reason the perch populations are so low........so how can more alewives be the solution? I may as well give up arguing with you, because you only read what you want to, and ignore the majority of the post. Your arguments are poorly thought out, poorly written, and poorly backed up. 

I really only see one website cited by you as a source, and most of the time you cite nothing. If you are going to say that something is a fact, prove it. Back it up.


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## walranger5

STEINFISHSKI said:


> All opinion on your part. What makes you the expert in this arena? Why don't you show scientific evidence instead of sharing your opinion over and over on these matters.  If it were that simple something could easily be done about it, yet I have yet to see a shred of science to back your claims. I trust our biologists over your opinion, where did you get your degree?
> 
> This back and forth without any science backing your theories up is tiring. You need to convince our leaders who make decisions anyway, not us.


 The statements I have made are from studies, if you search the terms I have used, you could read all the studies you like, that back up everything I've said. When the official plan or goal of the fishery commision is to make the alewives the dominate fish in lake Michigan, I dont need a degree. Please try to remember, when your dealing with a DNR biologist, all his buddies have jobs in the salmon hatchery, it would be follish not to consider this fact. There is a group of "experts" that spoke out against the managing the lakes for alewives, but they hid their rebuke in a cisco study. From what I've seen, any biologists that dont play ball with the alewife plan, don't get invited to the study parties. If we don't have to worry about the alewives, then we have many options, for Asian carp and the rest. If we keep the salmon then we have no other options but to protect the alewives, as they can't survive without them. Fear mongering would be we will lose jobs if we close the locks, we will lose jobs if we lose the salmon, this is all these people have. They would put the value of a salmon tournament or cost of a boat, above the value, and long term survival of the all the lakes? I have dealt with the DNR, went to the meetings, their excuses all boil down to "because they said so" The guys in Bay Denoc begged them not to drop the slot limit on walleyes, the DNR said they didn't see any benefit in it, even tho thier own study by Phil Schneeberger MDNR said the slot limit, or harvest control was the main reason for the great fishing! They cut predators on alewives to increase them, they reduced the limit on smelt, (plan food for salmon) to increase them, they're planting ciscos hoping salmon will eat them. These are all facts. If your a moderator, than you have my e mail address, send me your mailing address, I'll send the data and facts you'll need, plus a DVD of the alewife spawn of 2010 in Muskegon lake (underwater video) that includes the size of the "fingerlings" they planted. Perhaps you know how to post it so everyone can see it. I would have to trust you would report fairly of the facts. I'm not afraid, the facts are there. The DNR has a green wall around the alewives, we need to get past that.


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## LordSamuel

Not to sound like a ignorent d-bag or anything, but part of me as an angler looks forward to the population of asian carp. Once they become exposed to an environment that is bread fed, they will feed on bread floating at the surface. I had an experience that I will never forget in a Florida pond for a condo association. There was a pack of 4 asian carp swimming around fast, Similar to a small group of jacks" They ranged from 25-40 pounds. I threw some bread in the water and they came up and started feeding. Pulled out my bass pole and dropped a piece of bread on the surface, the big one gulped it. It was like a bomb went off after I set the hook, The fish ran and tail danced like a tarpon. I had him on for about 10 minutes before I popped the hook. The pond wasn't very big, about the size of the sharp park pond in Lansing. If that fish had anywhere to run It would have spooled me in 20 seconds. 

When they do make it into these rivers, many will be blown away after they experience the fight.:coolgleam


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## wartfroggy

:tsk:


LordSamuel said:


> Not to sound like a ignorent d-bag or anything, but part of me as an angler looks forward to the population of asian carp.:coolgleam


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## MERGANZER

LordSamuel said:


> Not to sound like a ignorent d-bag or anything, but part of me as an angler looks forward to the population of asian carp. Once they become exposed to an environment that is bread fed, they will feed on bread floating at the surface. I had an experience that I will never forget in a Florida pond for a condo association. There was a pack of 4 asian carp swimming around fast, Similar to a small group of jacks" They ranged from 25-40 pounds. I threw some bread in the water and they came up and started feeding. Pulled out my bass pole and dropped a piece of bread on the surface, the big one gulped it. It was like a bomb went off after I set the hook, The fish ran and tail danced like a tarpon. I had him on for about 10 minutes before I popped the hook. The pond wasn't very big, about the size of the sharp park pond in Lansing. If that fish had anywhere to run It would have spooled me in 20 seconds.
> 
> When they do make it into these rivers, many will be blown away after they experience the fight.:coolgleam


 
You are not talking into account the fish populations that will suffer, the hit to the economy as boating and other water activities are eliminated and the fact that once here we cannot get rid of them. What happens when they destroy the walleye, slamon, trout, perch, etc fisheries????? Well at least you can have a great fight on your rod.

Ganzer


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## wartfroggy

LordSamuel said:


> Not to sound like a ignorent d-bag or anything, but part of me as an angler looks forward to the population of asian carp. Once they become exposed to an environment that is bread fed, they will feed on bread floating at the surface. I had an experience that I will never forget in a Florida pond for a condo association. There was a pack of 4 asian carp swimming around fast, Similar to a small group of jacks" They ranged from 25-40 pounds. I threw some bread in the water and they came up and started feeding. Pulled out my bass pole and dropped a piece of bread on the surface, the big one gulped it. It was like a bomb went off after I set the hook, The fish ran and tail danced like a tarpon. I had him on for about 10 minutes before I popped the hook. The pond wasn't very big, about the size of the sharp park pond in Lansing. If that fish had anywhere to run It would have spooled me in 20 seconds.
> 
> When they do make it into these rivers, many will be blown away after they experience the fight.:coolgleam


 Then also take into account that these are not your regular, run of the mill carp either....which is probably what you were playing with in FL. The asian carp are filter feeders. While common carp eat a wide variety of crap, aquatic larvae, crawdads, minnows, ect........the silver and bighead carp mostly eat plankton. Good luck threading daphnia on your hook.


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## STEINFISHSKI

walranger5 said:


> The statements I have made are from studies, that back up everything I've said. If your a moderator, than you have my e mail address, send me your mailing address, I'll send the data and facts you'll need. Perhaps you know how to post it so everyone can see it. I would have to trust you would report fairly of the facts. I'm not afraid, the facts are there. The DNR has a green wall around the alewives, we need to get past that.


E-mail is sent. I'll look at these studies and share them with the rest of us so we can all understand. 

I consider myself well read on most of these issues and follow along closely as they do affect us all. Maybe we can blow the lid off this alewife thing after all.

Tim


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## diztortion

wartfroggy said:


> Good luck threading daphnia on your hook.


I bet I can thread it on a 4/0 treble, right above about 8oz of weight..


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## Dawg

> The statements I have made are from studies, if you search the terms I have used, you could read all the studies you like, that back up everything I've said. When the official plan or goal of the fishery commision is to make the alewives the dominate fish in lake Michigan, I dont need a degree. Please try to remember, when your dealing with a DNR biologist, all his buddies have jobs in the salmon hatchery, it would be follish not to consider this fact. There is a group of "experts" that spoke out against the managing the lakes for alewives, but they hid their rebuke in a cisco study. From what I've seen, any biologists that dont play ball with the alewife plan, don't get invited to the study parties. If we don't have to worry about the alewives, then we have many options, for Asian carp and the rest. If we keep the salmon then we have no other options but to protect the alewives, as they can't survive without them. Fear mongering would be we will lose jobs if we close the locks, we will lose jobs if we lose the salmon, this is all these people have. They would put the value of a salmon tournament or cost of a boat, above the value, and long term survival of the all the lakes? I have dealt with the DNR, went to the meetings, their excuses all boil down to "because they said so" The guys in Bay Denoc begged them not to drop the slot limit on walleyes, the DNR said they didn't see any benefit in it, even tho thier own study by Phil Schneeberger MDNR said the slot limit, or harvest control was the main reason for the great fishing! They cut predators on alewives to increase them, they reduced the limit on smelt, (plan food for salmon) to increase them, they're planting ciscos hoping salmon will eat them. These are all facts. If your a moderator, than you have my e mail address, send me your mailing address, I'll send the data and facts you'll need, plus a DVD of the alewife spawn of 2010 in Muskegon lake (underwater video) that includes the size of the "fingerlings" they planted. Perhaps you know how to post it so everyone can see it. I would have to trust you would report fairly of the facts. I'm not afraid, the facts are there. The DNR has a green wall around the alewives, we need to get past that.


Maybe a little less caffeine and a little more grammar?


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## wartfroggy

Dawg said:


> Maybe a little less caffeine and a little more grammar?


 Sometimes you need to make decisions.
"Hooked on Phonics" or "Intro to Fisheries"


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## walranger5

STEINFISHSKI said:


> E-mail is sent. I'll look at these studies and share them with the rest of us so we can all understand.
> 
> I consider myself well read on most of these issues and follow along closely as they do affect us all. Maybe we can blow the lid off this alewife thing after all.
> 
> Tim


 As promised studies and facts and video sent Priority mail 2/2/11 to the address Tim provided. Tracking number is on the other thread response to unreel. Everything he needs is in there.


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## walranger5

wartfroggy said:


> Sometimes you need to make decisions.
> "Hooked on Phonics" or "Intro to Fisheries"


 A lie told with big words, and proper sentence structure is still a lie. It's just a fancy lie.
The truth will always be the truth no matter how you spell it.
Asian Carp are very real, and don't care how your grammer is. I imagine once they take over (if we let them) proper spelling of swear words will be in order. Wont do any good, maybe make you feel superior to a fish?


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## Speyday

Im having trouble making the connection between a period of unusually high winds from abnormal directions.............and the asian carp.

They are filter eaters that eat algae. not bottom sediment.

If the only thing your trying to say is "if they show up in good numbers, this is a feeding zone", then OK. But its not quite the smorgasbord you would think.


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## wartfroggy

walranger5 said:


> A lie told with big words, and proper sentence structure is still a lie. It's just a fancy lie.


 OK. What about short words spelled correctly? With punctuation and everything? Everyone knows that Asian Carp are real. Everyone knows that Alewives are invasive. Everyone knows that perch are native. Everyone knows that Salmon are not native. Everyone knows that zebra mussels are invasive. Everyone knows that carp eat plankton. Everyone knows that alewives are invasive....again....because you keep mentioning it. Stop repeating these statements, and show some documentation to back up your claims that perch will/can control the alewives and carp.


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## walranger5

wartfroggy said:


> OK. What about short words spelled correctly? With punctuation and everything? Everyone knows that Asian Carp are real. Everyone knows that Alewives are invasive. Everyone knows that perch are native. Everyone knows that Salmon are not native. Everyone knows that zebra mussels are invasive. Everyone knows that carp eat plankton. Everyone knows that alewives are invasive....again....because you keep mentioning it. Stop repeating these statements, and show some documentation to back up your claims that perch will/can control the alewives and carp.


 I just mailed the documentation to stienski. Since it seems you refuse to search the statements I set out, this would lead you to the truth about things. ALL fish have the same weakness, surviving the spawn, including ASIAN CARP. Without ALEWIVES the natural ecosystem and native fish are coming back in Huron. This is a good thing. Asian Carp are soft finned prey, no reason Perch wont eat them. The experts who put together the Asian Carp plan agree they will eat them. So then it's numbers. Zero tolerance for invasive species, including alewives. At 8 billion (goal) alewives are taking millions of pounds of zooplankton and native larval fish out of the ecosystem every year, that's a natural fact. But we're supposed to ignore that fact? The FACT that the plan calls for alewives to be the dominate fish, should be a giant RED FLAG for anyone, but no, it's the plan? We're supposed to be doing what's best for the lakes/ natural ecosystem. not the alewives.


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## walranger5

Speyday said:


> Im having trouble making the connection between a period of unusually high winds from abnormal directions.............and the asian carp.
> 
> They are filter eaters that eat algae. not bottom sediment.
> 
> If the only thing your trying to say is "if they show up in good numbers, this is a feeding zone", then OK. But its not quite the smorgasbord you would think.


 Everything in the sediment gets thrown up, and they say Zebra feces can feed them, and rotting stuff on bottom. When I saw this, the statement that "Asian Carp will starve in Lake Michigan before they get to the rivers" came to mind. The plume just helps them, and according to Chapman (the AC expert) they have learned how to root around in the bottom for food. Plus there's this giant plankton donut out there? Whatever food is out there AC are very good at finding it, and hogging it.


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## wartfroggy

walranger5 said:


> I just mailed the documentation to stienski. Since it seems you refuse to search the statements I set out, this would lead you to the truth about things. ALL fish have the same weakness, surviving the spawn, including ASIAN CARP. Without ALEWIVES the natural ecosystem and native fish are coming back in Huron. This is a good thing. Asian Carp are soft finned prey, no reason Perch wont eat them. The experts who put together the Asian Carp plan agree they will eat them. So then it's numbers. Zero tolerance for invasive species, including alewives. At 8 billion (goal) alewives are taking millions of pounds of zooplankton and native larval fish out of the ecosystem every year, that's a natural fact. But we're supposed to ignore that fact? The FACT that the plan calls for alewives to be the dominate fish, should be a giant RED FLAG for anyone, but no, it's the plan? We're supposed to be doing what's best for the lakes/ natural ecosystem. not the alewives.


I read quite a bit of literature on the topic. And yes, I did have to search for it myself, since you won't post any links. I agree that if you stuck 6 perch in an aquarium with 6 baby carp, the carp would be gone in the morning. But, that isn't how the lake is set up. The baby carp will not overlap enough with the perch to consider the perch to be a feasible solution. Or for the perch to control the alewives. You are losing sight of the big picture because you are so fucused in on one thing.....that you want perch.


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## walranger5

wartfroggy said:


> I read quite a bit of literature on the topic. And yes, I did have to search for it myself, since you won't post any links. I agree that if you stuck 6 perch in an aquarium with 6 baby carp, the carp would be gone in the morning. But, that isn't how the lake is set up. The baby carp will not overlap enough with the perch to consider the perch to be a feasible solution. Or for the perch to control the alewives. You are losing sight of the big picture because you are so fucused in on one thing.....that you want perch.


 This isn't about what I want, or you want, or unreel wants. I have been answering your questions you just don't like the answers. Baby carp will be in the near shore warmwater areas, this is Perch turf. Salmon or trout can't even survive in there, so we already know they can't be predators at all, ever. I don't care if salmon crap silver dollars when they get in the boat, if it's the wrong fish for the job, then it's the wrong fish! When we started this, the DNR wanted suggestions on how to deal with zebras and gobies, simple Perch eat them. So we geared up to raise them to at least 2 inches, past the alewife threat, (and others) and put in for a permit. Denied. The more I asked questions, the more BS I got. I have a drawer full of "fancy lies" from DNR staff, and blah blah letters from politicians, all the same "I have always supported protecting our natural resources yada yada .... But no action.A Perch could eat thousands of asian carp eggs and fry, salmon will eat none, they're not eating the ones we have now, and they don't grow to big, Perch will. I never said I was smarter, I was just stupid enough to volunteer to help. But the perch also threaten the alewives, so helping them is not allowed. If we don't have to worry about what happens to the alewives, then we have many predator options, if we keep the salmon we have ZERO options, we have to protect the alewives, because salmon can't survive without them. So we have to literally have to sacrifice the entire ecosystem for one fish. Me, I like having options, the problem dictates the solution, that rule never changes.


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## wartfroggy

walranger5 said:


> Baby carp will be in the near shore warmwater areas, this is Perch turf.


 Grand Haven still has a pretty decent perch fishery. Stop by and talk to a perch fisherman when he is pulling his boat. Where do they catch the majority of their perch in the summer? Anywhere from 30 to 80 fow on the bottom. So are the carp going to be using rock piles and open water as a nursery, in 30-80 fow? Or are they going to be in the drowned river mouths, inland lakes connected to the big lake, up in the weeds, and in 3-6 fow? So, perch are in 30-80 fow....while perch are in 1/10th of that depth. Perch are out in the cooler, clearer water, while carp will be in the warmer, dirtier water. And the perch are going to be controlling the carp??????  THERE ISN'T ENOUGH OVERLAP!


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## walranger5

wartfroggy said:


> Grand Haven still has a pretty decent perch fishery. Stop by and talk to a perch fisherman when he is pulling his boat. Where do they catch the majority of their perch in the summer? Anywhere from 30 to 80 fow on the bottom. So are the carp going to be using rock piles and open water as a nursery, in 30-80 fow? Or are they going to be in the drowned river mouths, inland lakes connected to the big lake, up in the weeds, and in 3-6 fow? So, perch are in 30-80 fow....while perch are in 1/10th of that depth. Perch are out in the cooler, clearer water, while carp will be in the warmer, dirtier water. And the perch are going to be controlling the carp??????  THERE ISN'T ENOUGH OVERLAP!


 I've watched and caught Perch in the backwaters and swamps since i was a kid. The drowned river mouths are (like muskegon lake) are nuseries, plenty of overlap there. It's pretty simple, given the FACTS of situation we have there is no logical reason to not increase the Perch and other native fish. Any reductions in any invasive species due to an increase in Perch etc... is a step in the right direction. There is however given our invasive problem, no logical reason or excuse, for intentionally increasing an invasive species alewives or otherwise. To the alewife lovers society,and the DNR the alewives are the most feared fish there is, even it seems more than Asian Carp. Asian carp can feed on both vegatable based food, and animal and switch back and forth as needed. There is no greater threat, and there is no "if" they get in the lakes, never was. Undoubtly, you will continue to attack me for sometime. Probably until you get hit in the nose with a flyin carp, then a moment of clarity will occur. As I said there is no LOGICAL reason to not increase the Perch. After 6 years, I've watched the carp get in the lakes, the Gobies spread inland 60+ plus miles (check that spread map) and spreading through the trout streams, and your defending saving and protecting the alewives? The DNR has much better "sounding" excuses than you. But they're only excuses. The DNR has put a green wall around the alewives, we have to get past that before we can do anything positive. I don't care if I ever learn how to paste on a computer, but I do care about what happens to the lake. Tim said he hasn't read the carp stuff yet, I have to check the other thread. I thought starting a new thread to address different things was called for, and addreses everyone, if that's a mistake. it's mine.


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## walranger5

walranger5 said:


> I've watched and caught Perch in the backwaters and swamps since i was a kid. The drowned river mouths are (like muskegon lake) are nuseries, plenty of overlap there. It's pretty simple, given the FACTS of situation we have there is no logical reason to not increase the Perch and other native fish. Any reductions in any invasive species due to an increase in Perch etc... is a step in the right direction. There is however given our invasive problem, no logical reason or excuse, for intentionally increasing an invasive species alewives or otherwise. To the alewife lovers society,and the DNR the alewives are the most feared fish there is, even it seems more than Asian Carp. Asian carp can feed on both vegatable based food, and animal and switch back and forth as needed. There is no greater threat, and there is no "if" they get in the lakes, never was. Undoubtly, you will continue to attack me for sometime. Probably until you get hit in the nose with a flyin carp, then a moment of clarity will occur. As I said there is no LOGICAL reason to not increase the Perch. After 6 years, I've watched the carp get in the lakes, the Gobies spread inland 60+ plus miles (check that spread map) and spreading through the trout streams, and your defending saving and protecting the alewives? The DNR has much better "sounding" excuses than you. But they're only excuses. The DNR has put a green wall around the alewives, we have to get past that before we can do anything positive. I don't care if I ever learn how to paste on a computer, but I do care about what happens to the lake. Tim said he hasn't read the carp stuff yet, I have to check the other thread. I thought starting a new thread to address different things was called for, and addreses everyone, if that's a mistake. it's mine.


 My Bad, The Perch are the most feared fish to these people. All we get from the DNR is smoke and mirrors, and don't pay attention to that alewife behind the curtain! Need proof? I'm willing to let the lakes decide which fish is best for the lakes, they are not! Using native predators is part of the Asian Carp plan, we are willing to help with that part. Steinski has these statements and E mails I got from the "experts" I guess we're waiting on his report.


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