# Spinners



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

looking for some thoughts. This topic has been tossed around the last few years locally. Would like some feedback on it.

would you support a ban on managed areas for spinning wing decoys.


I would like to strictly contain this to a MANAGED AREA discussion. This is not a debate over to ban spinners state wide. Strictly talking spinners and how they affect you and the compact hunting of managed areas.

Keep in mind this would be discussing a restriction much like you see with shell limits that currently are used by managed areas.


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## Water_Hazard (Aug 16, 2006)

I would love to see them gone. Haven't used them much last year anyways. I know it is a crutch for alot of people, but the people that are using them for a crutch, usually don't know when they can do better turning them off.


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## here2 (Apr 28, 2008)

it dosent matter cuz they dont work.


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## GoneFishin (Jan 11, 2001)

Voted Neg as I would like to see 'em gone. However, there have been many days that I believe guys using 'em have made my spinnerless spread more effective.


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## DiversDown (Nov 17, 2005)

I would like to see them gone, one less thing to drag around.


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## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

I don't believe that I use them as a crutch as I scout hard on the managed area I hunt, but I do believe it would be very difficult to kill a bird out there without them. I have tried it with at without them and because of the results I will not even think about heading out without them.


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## Ferris_StateHunter (Apr 24, 2006)

How about just battery operated ones? I know some states (oregon in particular) that has a ban on battery operated devices, but this would allow for the wind aided spinners. 

I'd like to see this happen, it would limit the days you can use those types of decoys effectively, but still allows all to have options, just limited ones


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Okay I'll bite :evilsmile I voted negatively, but I'm not necessarily talking just about negatively affecting how many birds I kill. As already stated, sometimes they help...sometimes not so much. I'm talking my "experience" (the original question posed) is negatively affected by them. Especially when someone has so many out that it looks like a damn carnival ride down the corn strip :lol: Doing away with them on managed areas wouldn't bother me a bit.

And when that happens, let's run a workshop at SRSGA on how to use decoys effectively :idea:


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

just ducky said:


> .....And when that happens, let's run a workshop at SRSGA on how to use decoys effectively :idea:


Don't forget the effective shooting distance workshop as well. LOL! I think the same people would/could/should attend both.


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## Mike L (Sep 8, 2003)

They do help at times I agree, if you do get rid of them in the managed area's half of the younger guys wouldn't know what to do. It "Would" in 
my opinion make better duck hunters out of everyone. I tried an experiment
last year. All I carried was a robo....that's it nothing else ! Just one robo !

I carried just the one for one week. I had very good success. One particular morning I was back to the truck by 9am with my mallard limit. So yes they work. But when they stop working you have to be able to call properly, set your dekes up etc. Anyone can carry a robo and shoot, it takes learning and skill to go beyond the easy. Get rid of them I'm cool with that .........


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

some good comments. its hard to not post my opinion as i don't want to jade my little survey.

I will say this though. for the last 2+ years this topic has come up at our january meeting as it was a growing issue. Well this year i think it hit a boiling point and this discussion will be a very long one. If anyone would like to chime in on it in person, our meeting is next tuesday at 7:00 pm, field station.


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## cheeseandquackers (Jun 20, 2007)

had to vote dont care because they work positively and negitively. So its a double edge sword. I dont support a ban on anything. Too much government anymore. THough it would be nice if Noone used them thats not a reality anymore.


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## Big Honkers (Dec 20, 2008)

I have mixed feelings on this issue and I think the outcome could be different at the various managed areas. Kid, if you want a more precise source of data I think the question text should read specifically about Shiawassee. Im guessing the feeling on spinners at places like the Todd Farm & MWW are much different than places like Fish Point & Shiawassee. 

If hunters have a bad experiance they want to blame it on something or someone. Was there no problems before spinners?


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## Logan the Destructor (Nov 20, 2009)

I don't understand the angst against the spinners. While I am a relative newby to waterfowling, my question would be. Do you consider them an unfair advantage? or do they ruin hunts of others?
From what I've read this year is they are good early in the season but lose effectiveness later on.
If the goal is to shoot ducks, then I'm all for them. We've all been complaining of what a crap season it was, but when you watch any waterfowl shows or read any articles of hunting elsewhere in the country guys are shooting 100's of ducks per guy per season.
If they work I want to use them where ever I can, I've hunted Shiawassee and Fish point and was kind of sick of watching ducks blow over our spreads. If I want to look at a duck I'll p/u a magazine.


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## schutty09 (Oct 28, 2009)

The biggest problem with the spinners is that some people dont understand that some days they just don't work, and when your on a managed area it can effect everyone else in the field. (especially in the smaller fields) Most good hunters read the birds and see that they need to be removed from the spread but some hunters are not as bright.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Big Honkers said:


> Was there no problems before spinners?


i'm trying not to be bias. but to specifically answer this question, no this specific problem that is being argued was not there before spinners.

the fallout from someone using 1 to 12 spinners at the wrong time is very evident and impacts more than just their own field. Some compare it to putting up orange flags on your gun barrels. 

people use spinners at todd farm? for geese?? nah. When i say managed areas i was generally referring to shiaw, np, fp and harsens. You southwest guys aren't in michigan are you?


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## choc24/7 (Jan 22, 2008)

sometimes we use them and sometimes we don't. wouldn't bother me a bit if they were gone from teh managed areas. we only have one or two so no biggie, it wouldn't hurt us at all, we do fine when the batteries die and we take them down.....some of the people that run 5-8 may not like it......


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## Water_Hazard (Aug 16, 2006)

Logan the Destructor said:


> I don't understand the angst against the spinners. While I am a relative newby to waterfowling, my question would be. Do you consider them an unfair advantage? *or do they ruin hunts of others?*
> .


They can. When the birds get educated, some birds won't even come into a field that has a spinner going. If everybody pulls them but one strip, you will get the 200 yards away lock, flare at 150, and back to the refuge. The "semi-educated" birds will flare out at about 80-100 yards(you wouldn't believe how many times they get shot at that far). I guarantee you the goose kills would increase. Most of the geese don't even work in when the spinners are going. You can take yours down or shut yours off, but most likely there is several more running within 150 yards.

There is no unfair advantage if everyone is using them. The only advantages are decoy placement, calling, concealment and location. The same advantages apply whether spinners are part of the decoys or not. The spinners can negatively affect the hunts of others.


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## Zorba (Jan 24, 2007)

I have never hunted a managed area before. So it may be hard for me to understand... But, would'nt hunting the same place year after year educate the ducks anyway?? Would'nt a duck head straight for the refuge and by pass the hunters regardless of his spread (spinners or not) if it was getting banged at year after year??

I read the waterfowl counts on the DNR website detailing 30 thousand birds in a managed area only to read posts from hunters who get skunked hunting them..


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Logan the Destructor said:


> ...While I am a relative newby to waterfowling, my question would be. Do you consider them an unfair advantage? or do they ruin hunts of others?


Logan,

You sort of said it all in the first line when you called yourself a "relative newby". Not that there's anything wrong with that...we all obviously started at some point. But with all due respect, years of experience in the marsh like some of us have gives us a different perspective on this (at least it does for me). Watching flocks of birds decoy without hesitation to a well set-up decoy spread of conventional dekes (or hand carved blocks), along with some well-timed, and delivered, calling, is a work of art...really! There's a satisfaction that comes from that that you just don't get much anymore...especially with the advent of spinners. Getting birds to come in to spinners just isn't the same, at least not for me. And the reason is I've hunted long enough to know how satisfying and fun it can be without them. 

Also I'm sure you've realized that duck hunters are a different breed. For a lot of it there's a real history and lore to it, from hunting over hand-carved blocks, to passing equipment and knowledge down from generation to generation, to the weather and conditions that duck hunters often endure. Most other kinds of hunting don't have that. So there's often a diffent mindset between those who have the experience, and have those kinds of sentimental feelings, and those who are "relative newbies" (again, no disrespect intended). When you hear some of us talk about the use of spinners looking like a "carnival", or we call them "chickens", that's because we lack a respect for their use because it takes literally no experience or knowledge to use them. And as others have said, using them can often screw up the hunting in the entire area, so everyone loses.



Logan the Destructor said:


> If they work I want to use them where ever I can, I've hunted Shiawassee and Fish point and was kind of sick of watching ducks blow over our spreads. If I want to look at a duck I'll p/u a magazine.


Here again is another different mind-set. To many of us it isn't about the number of birds you shoot, but rather the "method" you use to do it. I'm only speaking for myself, but I know a lot of hunters who feel similarly. Many of us "old timers" :lol: would much rather see lots of birds, and have them decoy to a conventional spread and calling, than shoot a limit of birds over a spinner. Even if it means I shoot none, one or two, versus a whole boatload. Again, it goes back to the satisfaction you get. 

I hope I made it clear that I'm not dismissing you or your opinion. You said you didn't understand the angst against spinners, so I was just trying to explain why many of us feel like we do.


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## SuperBlackEagle2 (Nov 4, 2005)

I'd love to see them gone. I have a BUNCH of them, and I would love to leave 'em at home when I go to St. Charles. I agree with pretty much everything that W. Hazard said. And from my personal point of view, they're simply just a pain in the butt. 
We've used anywhere from zero to 10. Sure, sometimes they make a positive difference. But that's maybe 20% of the time anymore. They sure do pull in the hens, at times. Most of the time anymore, they just flare birds. (that would be the remaining 80% of the time)
The most annoying thing is putting them out, and then realizing that they're screwing up your hunt. THEN going back out and picking them up.
I'm just fine with banning them. AND the stupid wind operated ones. Make it a total spinning wing ban, or else everybody and their brother will be buying up those idiotic wind operated spinners. 
My question is, why can't we just make it a local thing? I'm assuming that Dan's thought about this and has a reason. It just seems to me that it'd be easier to make it just a SRSGA thing? Maybe not though? 
I'll survive either way, but that's my opinion. 
I might have more to say later. But for now, I'm taking a nap.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

heres the common scenario

1pm everyones setting up in prior road. by 1:30 the front row (59-60) has about 5 to 8 spinners lined up. Hot field in the back (57 or 55). Birds exit refuge and go straight up to start working the fields....they climb to 100yrds to go over 59-60 and start working the back fields but only commit to about 60yrds flare up and leave.

around 3:30 59 pulls his spread and leaves cuz it sucks. 4:00 60 pulls his spread and leaves. guy in 57 has no spinners out and birds start leaving refuge and only climbing to 30yrds and immediately start working the fields. 57 limits out in 30 minutes. 55 pulls his spinners and limits out 30 minutes later.


how do i know this scenario? because its an every day occurance in november. The guys that hunt there everyday are sitting in there hoping the spinner guys get frustrated and leave so they can get some shooting.

Can spinners work in late season....absolutely...specially if your a back field and u put them behind a LONG ways. But if your sitting in the front fields with a wall of them up....good luck.

If you don't think spinners can't affect a whole block of fields when used your wrong...you just don't hunt a managed area enough to see it. Bad calling does not affect ducks the same as a high motion visual such as a spinner.


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## smackinducks (Dec 20, 2007)

Watched one of the merrygo round things last friday of season scare most all the flocks out of the thirties. Dont take much thinking after one flock or bird for that matter to flare for me to pull robo


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## Quakstakr (Nov 3, 2009)

Didn't hunt managed this year though


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## steelsetter (Dec 14, 2003)

smackinducks said:


> Watched one of the merrygo round things last friday of season scare most all the flocks out of the thirties. Dont take much thinking after one flock or bird for that matter to flare for me to pull robo


Watched a poor soul at NP with one trying to make it work this last season.

I swear the guy was playing around with that thing more than he was hunting...

He fianlly gave up.

We were laughing our azzes off watching the poor guy though as one or the other "duck" would fall off or the whole thing would magically disappear.

Own Two (2) Mojo's a big one for the refuge and a little one for walk in small water hunts.

Used em twice last year.

My big one has the remote which is nice as you can disable it without needing to go fetch it.

Early season they seem OK, but late season they stay at home.

I say banish em (ANY motorized decoying device) from the managed areas do to the highly concentrated hunters.

Public land should be a use as you deem fit format for them.

MY HUMBLE OPINION.

And when I started duck hunting (40 years or so ago) we used flat black cedar decoys and hammered em at Fish Point!

Never wore Red flannel as I recall, but camo primarily consisted of not moving and wearing something green or brown depending on the marsh.

Mallard Tones were a NICE (still use em BTW :lolcall, and waterproof was either rubber or Filson.


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## schutty09 (Oct 28, 2009)

i think they should turn the strips in NP to east and west like SP that way the dummies in the front row won't screw up the whole field. :lol:


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## Branta (Feb 6, 2002)

Ban all them Motorized gizmos.








Just leave me be with my Fish Pt. secret weapon.










cracking myself up over here! :lol:
~~~~~~~~~~~

like Ferris point out, just be careful what you wish for. 

If you start banning things, be very, VERY careful how it's worded, what it encompasses and if/how hard it would be to reverse your decisions.

Oregons focus was to ban the common, easily identified motorized robo- duck type spinners. what got swept up with them was ANY item that was motorized and/or battery powered including; quiver magnets, swimmers, duck butts, things like Higdon pulsators, goose flappers, motion (mechanical) stands for geese.... even large AERATORS (that hurt for late season).... etc., etc.


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## KrossJr (Jan 20, 2009)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> heres the common scenario
> 
> 1pm everyones setting up in prior road. by 1:30 the front row (59-60) has about 5 to 8 spinners lined up. Hot field in the back (57 or 55). Birds exit refuge and go straight up to start working the fields....they climb to 100yrds to go over 59-60 and start working the back fields but only commit to about 60yrds flare up and leave.
> 
> ...


 
Gotta disagree with the bad calling/overcalling. This will ruin a hunt for an entire field just as bad as spinners. 

I say get rid of the spinners and the guys that "think" they know how to call ducks.....


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## steelsetter (Dec 14, 2003)

But if the Kid was just focusing on the managed units (which I think he was) I would be OK with it.

Public land should be a free for all.

Just hate that word "Ban" after the AWB fiasco...






Branta said:


> Ban all them Motorized gizmos.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

steelsetter said:


> ...And when I started duck hunting (40 years or so ago) we used flat black cedar decoys and hammered em at Fish Point!
> 
> Never wore Red flannel as I recall, but camo primarily consisted of not moving and wearing something green or brown depending on the marsh.
> 
> Mallard Tones were a NICE (still use em BTW :lolcall, and waterproof was either rubber or Filson.


Bout time some other "old timers" like myself chimed in. I lived for years in Hodgman "wadewell" waders. I still have a pair hanging with my neoprenes, and it's got no dry rot in the rubber like they always did. Can we turn on that time machine and go back to a simpler time, like no robos, no cell phones, no internet, yada, yada :evilsmile


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## smackinducks (Dec 20, 2007)

wana go retro have to get the rubber waders brown carhart coat and the ol 12 foot v hull out and while we are at it put some trees back in the flooded woods. Thats how it was 35 years ago when i started huntung shiawassee. No motorized decoys of any sort just some good ol calling and the single shot 16 gage H&R.


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## Mike L (Sep 8, 2003)

I'd vote yes for a total ban on all motorized decoys at the managed area's.
No matter what it was. Even the wind ones, use decoys only and that's it.
No splitting hairs....regular, over size decoys only, and be done with it ! ...........


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## Water_Hazard (Aug 16, 2006)

PuddleJumper said:


> The burden of proof is on you. Please back up your position where one spinner (or more) shut down a whole zone or a whole managed area and I will throw out my spinners and join your fight.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not sure how often you hunt Shiawassee, but I've seen it happen many times this year. Like Dan said, later in the season when 59 and or 60 throw up a spinner, most of the birds will not come all the way to the field or commit. I guess the only proof I have is experience. I'm out there enough to see every field throughout the week, mornings and afternoon, from the beginning to the end of the season.


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## Water_Hazard (Aug 16, 2006)

PuddleJumper said:


> In this case over regulating the guy next to you so you think you can get more birds just doesn't sit well with me. Because then where do you choose to draw the line?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you agree with the 25 shot shell limit, or do you think that is over regulating? I believe that rule was enforced to improve the quality of hunting for everyone. With unlimited shells, people would skybust all day long. I've seen a couple times this year where groups brought alot more than 25 shells each, and they ruined the afternoon for alot of other hunters. I even seen "hunters" walk back to the boat to get more shells. I believe that banning spinners at Shiawassee would improve the quality of hunting for everyone. Not only for ducks, but the geese also.


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## SuperBlackEagle2 (Nov 4, 2005)

Branta said:


> If you start banning things, be very, VERY careful how it's worded, what it encompasses and if/how hard it would be to reverse your decisions.
> 
> Oregons focus was to ban the common, easily identified motorized robo- duck type spinners. what got swept up with them was ANY item that was motorized and/or battery powered including; quiver magnets, swimmers, duck butts, things like Higdon pulsators, goose flappers, motion (mechanical) stands for geese.... even large AERATORS (that hurt for late season).... etc., etc.


Right. That's why I said "spinning wing decoys". I think that's specific enough, and wouldn't jeopardize all of the other "toy" decoys.


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## KrossJr (Jan 20, 2009)

Water_Hazard said:


> Do you agree with the 25 shot shell limit, or do you think that is over regulating? I believe that rule was enforced to improve the quality of hunting for everyone. With unlimited shells, people would skybust all day long. I've seen a couple times this year where groups brought alot more than 25 shells each, and they ruined the afternoon for alot of other hunters. I even seen "hunters" walk back to the boat to get more shells. I believe that banning spinners at Shiawassee would improve the quality of hunting for everyone. Not only for ducks, but the geese also.


 
I think flooded corn should be 15 shell limit, the marshes and woods should remain 25. NP did this prolly 10 years ago or so and it did work. Lot less cripples and the skybusters were out of shells in a couple hours. Just hard to enforce it.


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## PuddleJumper (Sep 23, 2009)

I wish I could hunt that much. 
You guys (Dan & waterhazard) obviously witnessed the flaring off of every little thing -the corn, boats in cut, overcalling, shots that were ridiculously far away, decoys, & spinners; just as I did. These birds were so stale and educated to the usual style of hunting that everyday became harder & harder to fool them. That's why kneeling in 64 (even with the snickers at the draw every time we picked it) with a dozen dekes (without spinners) worked so well- in my opinion we didn't need dekes in the AM or PM we just used them for range reference. Being different and being in the "right" spot worked well. And yes, everytime I was out I saw spinners atleast for some period of time. The birds stopped working early in the season and pass shots were the norm. The goal became to get them within range-forget about decoying, just give me a look at 30yds and I was satisfied. 

We can all agree this was a tough season with unusually smart birds. Head to Texas where it's always bluebird skies and the birds have been educated down the whole flyway and 10 guage 3.5" #2's have to get the job done. I'll take my Northern latitude and hope we don't have a dead middle season like this for awhile.

I get that it's a "managed" area and there are regulations to ensure the bird population is protected. The shotshell limit wasn't "enforced" it was implemented- I agree that it seems some don't follow that rule but we all have seen the manipulation of the draw more than once. More rules/bans/regulations to ensure the regulars that already have it figured out don't get bothered by those who need a hunt or two to figure it out seems off a bit. To me that's more a "hunt club" mentality than a "public welcome" mentality. 

Why not an 8 shot shell limit and a decoy size & number limit? Or a shell size & load limit? Maybe my wad wizard should be banned? 

I would rather have more options & diversity to the spreads at the bingo units than increasing regulations to shape all spreads towards someone else's idea of the ideal spread. Then the only advantage is the spot the draw allows you. At that point if all the spreads look alike, hunting without decoys would draw all the educated birds. 

My opinion is if spinners were already on the ban list, this season would have the lynch mob (pardon the industry pun) looking to ban the next thing down on the "irritating" list looking for justification for the rough season. To me banning is not the answer but perhaps proper use/timeline of the spinner may need to be addressed at the draw combined with a number limit. Either way I don't think it's possible to make everyone happy on this issue but it's interesting to hear (read) both sides.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Water_Hazard (Aug 16, 2006)

PuddleJumper said:


> *That's why kneeling in 64 (even with the snickers at the draw every time we picked it) with a dozen dekes (without spinners) worked so well- in my opinion we didn't need dekes in the AM or PM we just used them for range reference.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When the food gets ate out in 64 and the birds want to go down to 65, 63, and even 62, the quality of the hunt is diminished when 64 throws a scarecrow out right by the refuge.


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## Water_Hazard (Aug 16, 2006)

PuddleJumper said:


> We can all agree this was a tough season with unusually smart birds.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not basing my opinion on only one season. I think we can all agree the goose hunting isn't as good for anybody when scarecrows are going.


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## Logan the Destructor (Nov 20, 2009)

just ducky said:


> Logan,
> 
> You sort of said it all in the first line when you called yourself a "relative newby". Not that there's anything wrong with that...we all obviously started at some point. But with all due respect, years of experience in the marsh like some of us have gives us a different perspective on this (at least it does for me). Watching flocks of birds decoy without hesitation to a well set-up decoy spread of conventional dekes (or hand carved blocks), along with some well-timed, and delivered, calling, is a work of art...really! There's a satisfaction that comes from that that you just don't get much anymore...especially with the advent of spinners. Getting birds to come in to spinners just isn't the same, at least not for me. And the reason is I've hunted long enough to know how satisfying and fun it can be without them.
> 
> ...


JD, 
I appreciate your thoughts, I said I'm a newbie and meant it. I thank you for your feedback. While I do sound kind of trigger happy. My intent was to stress my goal is a good day in the field with opportunities to take a shot. I'll be honest, I don't have mojo's and didn't hunt over them this year with my hunting partners. We did have good success w/dekes and calling. Of which I'm not to shabby at, so say'th my poor shooting pals.
But after reading everyone's comments about the situations you've been in, I tend to agree. Make it an even/quality playing field on managed areas. But for some of my garden spots for next year if we had them, I bet we'd clean house. bang, bang, bang!!!! miss, miss, miss. DAMN!

All the best.


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