# Blue Fox Vibrax Minnow Chaser



## cireofmi (Feb 13, 2001)

Do they sell this lure in Michigan? I am wondering becuase I recieved one for Christmas and this appears to be an illegal lure since it has a weight permantly attached to a hook.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Not familiar with the lure so I can't answer. Weight attached can have a bearing depending on how heavy the weight is.


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## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

Cireofmi,

Is this the lure ?












If it is, I believe it would be legal. It looks like it would be legal beause the weight is not hooked DIRECTLY to the hook, it is ahead of it.
Am I correct Boehr ?


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## cireofmi (Feb 13, 2001)

http://www.bluefox.com/products/lures/vibrax_minnow.html it is pictured there with a wieght on the back hook.


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## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

Cireofmi,
The pic of the lure that I posted is legal I believe. However, the picture you posted showed a lure with a weight molded around the back treble hook. The regs state that you MAY NOT posess or sell ANY multi-pointed hook with a weight permanently attached. If that is what you have, I wouldn't carry it with you in your box. I'd be willing to bet it's ILLEGAL. Better to be safe than sorry.


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## cireofmi (Feb 13, 2001)

Dont worry I wont carry it on me but now this brings up the question. If the DNR found out where I lived would they come in my house to get it since it is illegal even to posses it? I doubt they would just curious?


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## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

Cireofmi,
I wouldn't worry about having it at home  

I just wouldn't take it fishing with you. I think by Posess, they're referring to having it with you while you're fishing. I'm sure there are A LOT of lure collectors out there that "posess" illegal lures in their collections. I SERIOUSLY doubt that the DNR is gonna be knocking on your door. 

Although, you may want to remove the city designation from you're profile


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## cireofmi (Feb 13, 2001)

I will be going to Gander Mountain in GR to see if they sell this lure.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

From the picture that lure would be legal. From the web site, those lures would be illegal.

No we are not coming to your house, it's Rodchester Hills isn't it.


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## cireofmi (Feb 13, 2001)

Yeah I live in Rochester Hills


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

Those lures are fine. We sell the regular Vibrax. There's a split ring between the hook and body. After talking with Tom Rosich, the Chief Fisheries guy for at least west Michigan, if not the state, that is not the intent of the law. We had this problem with guys being too technical and saying that weighted flies would be illegal. So Tom had the terms "commonly accepted" and "traditional" weighted flies put in. What will get you in trouble is taking split shot, spark plugs or any other kind of weight and attaching it directly to the hook shank. Or below the hook. Ray, do you agree with me on this? This is what the CO's around here told us. Nobody is going to get a ticket from a stone fly wrapped with regular fly tying lead. They weigh about 1/72 of an oz. Nor will someone get a ticket from a 1/4 oz major manufacturer lure. Now, the two oz lures that are lead made to look like a spoon will. Those are for snagging. The law is to stop snaggers and tightlines that gob on two oz. onto the hook shank of a treble hook. This year there will be new, clearer regs regarding weight to discourage snagging.


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## Lunker (Aug 27, 2001)

Heres one to think about ..how about those blade baits used for vertical jigging. Those have a lead body molded on a blade whic is then attached to 2 double hooks.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

324.48739 Violation of part as misdemeanor; possession or sale of multipointed hook with weight permanently attached as misdemeanor; penalties.

Sec. 48739. (1) A person who snags fish in violation of this part is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not less than $250.00 or more than $500.00, or both, and costs of prosecution.

(2) A person who is convicted of a second violation of snagging fish in violation of this part is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not less than $500.00 or more than $1,000.00, or both, and costs of prosecution. In addition, the court shall suspend a sports fishing license issued to a person sentenced under this subsection for not less than 2 years and order that the person shall not secure a fishing license during that 2-year period.

(3) A person who is convicted of a third or subsequent violation of snagging fish in violation of this part is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not less than $1,000.00 or more than $2,000.00, or both, and costs of prosecution. In addition, the court shall suspend a sports fishing license issued to a person sentenced under this subsection for not less than 3 years and order that the person shall not secure a fishing license during that 3-year period.

(4) *A person who possesses or sells in this state any multipointed hook with a weight permanently attached is guilty of a misdemeanor*, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not less than $100.00 or more than $300.00, or both, and costs of prosecution.

(5) A person who is convicted of a second violation of subsection (4) is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not less than $300.00 or more than $500.00, or both, and costs of prosecution.

(6) A person who is convicted of a third or subsequent violation of subsection (4) is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not less than $500.00 or more than $1,000.00, or both, and costs of prosecution.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

Why isn't that enforced more often? A store that the local CO hangs out at even sells 6/0 treble hooks for salmon. Probably like carrots in 452, too hard to prove in court. There's still places that sell the snagging M-80's. You know the giant trebles with the big chunk of lead in the middle otherwise known as "Tippy Spiders". You still find new ones hanging in the trees. Looks like this year there will be a vast improvement. I believe anglers will not be able to use any lure over 1/2 oz in trout streams. Is that what the new law is Ray? I don't recall. But when I talked to Tom Rosich, he said that the law's purpose was to make the lead spoons illegal. I sure hope so. I think they are finally going back to the old 3/8 inch gap rule on hooks also. Getting rid of that law was a mistake. One wholesaler even told me that I was missing the boat by not carrying big trebles. I told him that we make 50 times the sales from fly fishermen and legit spin fishermen than the slob buying a bunch of huge trebles. I even have to put my ice spears and frog spears away in September because so many people ask for them! Maybe some of these new rules will cut down on the slobs.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

You tell me what store is selling the M-60 snag hooks and I'll make sure it does get enforced. I have arrested a few shop owners selling M-60's. The other law you are talking about is "one ounce" with the 3/8 inch hook. As far as the M-60 snag hooks, those are just like marijuana, don't have to be caught using it just being in possession is illegal. Easy to enforce unless there is a problem with the local court up there. You know the judge sets the rules in the end regardless what the law says.

I don't know what the 6/0 treble hooks are that you posted. If they are just treble hooks without weights attached then those are legal depending how they are used. Then it goes to catching an individual using it illegally before anything can be done.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

Ray, I sent you a PM.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

One point you raise, aside from whether the hook is legal or not, is a very good point. The courts. As a business owner that depends on tourism in the Baldwin area, I get the distinct feeling that there's an unwritten rule that you don't do anything to distrupt the tourism dollars from coming into town. I don't know how many of you have been to Baldwin, but there isn't much else here for jobs and dollars other tourism. I've never heard of the D.A. prosecuting anyone for more than 5 gallons of deer bait either. Could it be everyone obeys the law here? LOL It may be a "don't bite the hand that feeds you" type of thing. And if the prosecutor gets too ambitious, the bar, motel, grocery and other businesses may scream come election time. We have a different outlook at BBT because we've found that it's the legit fishermen that spread the dollars around and we want more of those guys in town. We've also found that poachers don't spend much. Why should they. A box of ammo gets deer for a couple years and a handful of snagging hooks is all they need for a year. Real outdoorsmen like gadgets and always want new, nice gear. Poachers would dump bleach in the river if they thought they would get enough fish and get away with it. Poachers are very bad for my business, where the bars and gas stations are just interested in numbers of people in town.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Well said Bob, your post is reality.


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## StumpJumper (Nov 13, 2001)

I've never seen M-60's in any tackle shops, but there's alot of guys who have molds for them. 

So would that be considered, illegal manufacture of a controlled lure?

How many weighted snag hooks can a person have before it goes from personal use to possesion with intent to distribute?


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

Yeah, I never thought of that. Somebody must be making them or selling them because there's new shiney ones hanging from the tree's.


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## StumpJumper (Nov 13, 2001)

I always save them and cut the hooks off. I've saved a whole box of them, now I need to buy a jig mold and start melting some lead!


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