# Laker Slots on Lake Michigan



## RML (Apr 24, 2009)

Our fisheries are like our roads..Tons and tons of money going in and flaming smelly crap coming out...


----------



## Raylaser (Jan 29, 2015)

Agreed, but complaining about it on blog sites (not you but all of us) is going to solve nothing. The politicians are banking on us not uniting in an effort to confront these issues. If they feel like they are appeasing the right groups that lobby them, then "hey no problems". However, once they know that VOTERS (who are sportsmen) are going to voice their "concerns" at election time, then maybe (just maybe) we can get our voices heard. 

The whole process is best done with petition drives (which are easily done through the internet and emails). These petitions can get resolution issues on the ballots in communities and at the state level. Once the issues are being politicized (from our vantage point) then the politicians might be a bit more sympathetic to our concerns. You can throw all the scientific evidence you want at them but until it concerns there political careers (i.e. being voted out of office for lack of action), they won't be all that moved to help the sports fishing industry which as we all know pumps millions of dollars into the state coffers each year. 

If you start at the local level (communities that have been hurt by the decrease in a sustainable sport fishing presence), you have the potential to get whole communities supporting our cause because it helps them gain more money in tourism dollars and new businesses that support the tourists and fishermen. Local politicians can then help influence state politicians and so on.

Just my 2 cents, so now I will get off my soapbox but I won't stop looking for ways to get our voices heard to get these issues addressed. If anyone out there has experience with starting online petition drives please lend your expertise and help get this off the ground. Would especially like to hear from any of you devoted fishermen who happen to be lawyers or politically connected to help get the shortest route to the ears of those who matter most and have the most authority to start the change process. Thanks for reading my rants!


----------



## JungleGeorge (Apr 18, 2013)

More fish in the river = more nuckleheads . I took my girl to try and Hook her into a salmon this year and there were people who set up an entire base camp coming from Alabama . Ya it will bring more dollars to up north towns and tourism but and what expense? I watched a dude stand on a down tree , snag a spawned out hen, yell to his buddys "dude I got one " and threw it on the bank. I couldn't even fish with her with out numerous people coming to the small run I got her in saying , " mind if I cast here" and me replying , " ya I do, your on the wrong side of the river spooking the few fish I'm fishing to and your lead will tangle in my **** and we'll have even less of a chance than we already do. " then acted like I was some sort of dick head. 
Personally I would much rather fish with less people to less fish , than to fish to more fish with more nuckleheads. 
Do I know that this will happen for a fact ? No I don't. But this has came to my mind when I briefly read this thread. Just something to think about.


----------



## Raylaser (Jan 29, 2015)

Hey Jungle: I agree that there are a large number of Knuckleheads out there already and having a better fishery will most likely bring in some more, but I do believe the advantage outweigh the disadvantages. 

Believe me, I went through this in the 70's salmon runs and you are right, very few people drive hundreds of miles to fish the runs anymore because the salmon run (on the east side of the state at least) is almost gone. 

However, I would like to be able to see that my license fees (and your tax dollars) get used for the right purposes. We are paying them anyway, so why let the government *misuse* them. They should be using them to solve the Zebra Mussel problem and to find ways to stock fish that will reproduce and will give us river fishermen something to target. 

Yes, the rivers will have more people fish them and yes there will be an increase in those who don't know (or don't care) about river etiquette, but I think we are better off voicing our concerns and asking (no demanding) that the money we spend be used to enhance the sport we love and basically pay for the pleasure of performing. 

You will never keep all the bad apples and unsportsman like people away but I don't want to see the fishing I've loved for more than 50 years be gone for my grandchildren and their children to enjoy!


----------



## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Here is the problem with the fish and the knuckleheads. The DNR plants fish where the money is and the fishermen concentrate. There are three river systems on the SW side of the state that get more salmon and trout than almost all of the rest of the state. In the fall those salmon and trout will return to the same river system. It will attract people. I have spent years explaining to DNR biologists why they should divide the state into regions and plant each region equally. They don't see things that way. Splitting the fish planting up would spread out the fishermen and turn some moderate waters into good fishing waters.
This will also impact tourism and generate more license sales. As an example if I am on vacation for a week in Manistique, Michigan and I don't see a fisherman anywhere, I have no interest to go fishing. If I see some guys catching salmon off from a break wall I buy a license, rod, reel, and lures and join in. I have a good time. Next year I book my vacation for the same place and same time. Now I have bought a boat, downriggers, poles, lures and I use the ramp and marina. Thank you DNR for not planting all of your fish in one spot.


----------



## Raylaser (Jan 29, 2015)

Right On Robert!! You hit the proverbial nail on the head! If the right types of fish were planted in the right places everyone wins - the business owners, towns people and most of all the fishermen. 

Your perspective on this issue is the type of perspective that we need to develop in other concerned fishermen! Complaining only works when we complain to the right people who can actually make a difference.

I feel your pain about talking to the DNR about doing the right thing with stocking programs. Having lived most of my life in MI and now in Ohio for 16 years, it's frustrating when you see the wrong decisions being made about the way the fisheries management is being done with the Great Lakes and it's tributaries. The only fishing I do is river fishing, pier fishing and ice fishing; and all of these require a good sustainable spawning run of fish that need to be managed properly.


----------



## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

The USFWS is one of a kind. They hate the brown trout, the steelhead and any kind of salmon. They only think that lake trout should be in the great lakes. Some fishermen like to catch and eat them but it is a small percentage of the overall population of fishermen. The lake trout are managed to eat like pigs, grow old, then die on the bottom of the lake. The tribal fishermen catch them and sell them but many of them hate lake trout also. 
The DNR wants to plant all of the fish that the USFWS hates. The ecosystems can only handle so many predator fish. For as long as I can remember the USFWS and the DNR have been having a fish planting battle. They cannot and will not play in the same sand box. 
I agree with the other posts that the fishermen should be allowed to decide after all we are writing their paychecks.


----------



## Raylaser (Jan 29, 2015)

Robert: You seem well versed on this subject. Do you have the contact info that you think works best if we (the fishermen) were to try and organize a petition drive etc? In other words, who and what department would be the best place to start with making our concerns known in an organized manner? Thanks for any info you have on this part of the process!


----------



## Jay Wesley (Mar 2, 2009)

Attending the multiple meetings that are held throughout the state would be a start. Each lake has a citizen's fishery advisory committee that help inform management decisions. Michigan Sea Grant holds regional meetings each year and discuss fishery issues for each lake. Join Michigan Steelheaders, trout unlimited or another sport fish organization. Attend a Natural Resource Commission Meeting. Contact the Basin Coordinator for the lake that you are interested in. 

I think that you will find staff very approachable and interested to talk to you about your ideas.


----------



## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Most of the meetings in the UP are a few hours away and they have them at hours when a working guy cannot make it. I think that the closest Steelheaders is in Alpena and that is 2 hours at best away. Trout Unlimited is not in this area either. I am a member of Straits Area Sportsmans Club and the retired guys go to the meetings. They do a good job of speaking on everyone's behalf.


----------



## Jay Wesley (Mar 2, 2009)

Any ideas on how we can engage with folks like you that can't get to meetings?


----------



## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

I know for down here, I was contacted via this website, then e-mails, and then attended the meeting. It was actually pretty rewarding to push for a smaller size limit and see it come to fruition. I had one day last year we dragged a pair of 17-18" lakers and had to throw them back dead.

I'm not sure if Robert can find Jay's equivalent person for his area and reach out to him.

Season seems to keep being extended as well. Now we need to work to have it open year round down here. I know they're vulnerable as they spawn, but in reality, I can't see the harvest going up too much if we get November and December added to the season. I've caught some beautiful fish trolling around Thanksgiving and hated to tell my guests we had to let them go.


----------



## Jay Wesley (Mar 2, 2009)

Thank you. As the abundance of lakers increase (especially in the southern part of the lake) that may be something that we can consider.


----------



## GuppyII (Sep 14, 2008)

Jay Wesley said:


> Attending the multiple meetings that are held throughout the state would be a start. Each lake has a citizen's fishery advisory committee that help inform management decisions. Michigan Sea Grant holds regional meetings each year and discuss fishery issues for each lake. Join Michigan Steelheaders, trout unlimited or another sport fish organization. Attend a Natural Resource Commission Meeting. Contact the Basin Coordinator for the lake that you are interested in.
> 
> I think that you will find staff very approachable and interested to talk to you about your ideas.


Its also easier to bitch about it on a public forum than to go to a meeting. .. 
Even where I'm at I have an hour travel to meetings, it's a fact of life in the yoop that anything you do requires twice the travel as living downstate anywhere, move or quit complaining... it would be nice to see them in the evening where they can be attended without having to take vacation though.


----------



## RML (Apr 24, 2009)

I wouldn't consider what people write about as BITCHING Guppy2...Not a considerate term to describe people opinions and ideas...

I also disagree that this isn't as effective as going to a meeting...People can gather there thoughts and put them down in writing...Yes, some are hiding behind there keyboard but it doesn't change how they feel. Good Ideas could even be cut a pasted and printed and brought into real meetings..At the public meeting it's in one ear out the other in most cases...

The meetings Q & A actually sound like a bunch of bitching "white noise" after a power point presentation of there studies...Only a small portion of guys get questions answered, most go home with more questions than you would think. The forums can get hundreds sometimes thousands involved from a much greater distance than any local town hall style meeting

Want to reach more people put out " MDNR Great Lakes Invasive Mussel" power point on a online video, post in/ on a forum or have it so people that can't or don't want to travel can log on live if they like...The DNR could really get with the times by offering a TEXT RAP line too..Many places I see poaching happening are places I can text but can't talk...Or are these ideas just more bitching ?? maybe, maybe not...


----------



## Raylaser (Jan 29, 2015)

RML: You are so right. These forums are meant for sharing fishing info and ideas and also for info about the way the fisheries are being managed and through these forums we can engage many more fishermen that have similar concerns but might not have the direction they need where to properly voice their concerns. Plus we can all learn more about the issues that are effecting our sport (both positively and negatively). The more we know about what's happening or not happening to improve the fishing, the better we can take action.

It is difficult for many working people to physically be present at meetings but we can be represented by signed petitions and that's one of the easiest ways to voice your concerns directly to those in charge of making the decisions about what to plant and how to deal with invasive species etc.

Posting in other places online additionally draws attention to the matters at hand so that other groups (like environmentalists) may be moved to act since they may feel that these issues effect the environment as well as the sport fishing industry.

I say the more we engage people with our concerns the more likely we will see people take action. And if some of those who are prompted to act have the time and/or live in close proximity to the meeting sites and can attend, all the better. But I think online petition drives to change legislation and other directives is the best starting point.

As I posted previously, if someone out there is familiar with setting-up an official online petition drive and knows who the concerns should be directed to, that person would be a welcome resource to this list of problems we have been blogging about (not bitching about).


----------



## Jay Wesley (Mar 2, 2009)

Here are videos of recent presentation at the Lake Michigan Committee Meeting:

http://www.glfc.org/lakecom/video/2015.html

Here is the Michigan Sea Grant site with some good videos as well:

http://www.miseagrant.umich.edu/news/sw/


----------



## Raylaser (Jan 29, 2015)

Thanks Jay. I am looking forward to viewing these. Will get back to you after I have a chance to view.


----------



## Corey K (Dec 11, 2009)

Just a side note on Lake Trout vs. Alewives, when Huron was winding down there was a study done on stomach contents of Lake Trout on a large spawning reef...Every single stomach with contents contained Alewives, so what I'm concerned with why are they still planting large amounts of Lake Trout in Lake Michigan??:sad:

They will continue to eat Alewives, I really wish the focus was on planting Atlantics, Browns, and Steelhead. These fish will also eat Alewives but, also don't depend on them bugs, gobies, and shiners will fill their stomachs!


----------



## Julez81 (Feb 6, 2009)

Corey K said:


> Just a side note on Lake Trout vs. Alewives, when Huron was winding down there was a study done on stomach contents of Lake Trout on a large spawning reef...Every single stomach with contents contained Alewives, so what I'm concerned with why are they still planting large amounts of Lake Trout in Lake Michigan??:sad:
> 
> They will continue to eat Alewives, I really wish the focus was on planting Atlantics, Browns, and Steelhead. These fish will also eat Alewives but, also don't depend on them and bugs, gobies, and shiners will fill their stomachs!


I wholeheartedly agree with this.


----------

