# Isle Royale Wolves



## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

I am all for live trapping 200 in the UP and transporting them to the island. Then they can live trap another 200 and relocate them in the LP. It will create lots of jobs for people to study them. If they are relocated in the Detroit area Michigan can have a unique urban wolf. The movie people can come to Michigan and film a movie called Urban Grey. I think that it would be a block buster.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

triplelunger said:


> It's amazing any wildlife has endured for hundreds of thousands of years without human management practices.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Good point. I guess that the Common Loon, Brown Bat, Kirkland Warbler, and Grey Wolf don't need the DNR to spend millions of dollars on them anymore. Sorry I forgot to mention the endangered UP Whitetail Deer.


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## MERGANZER (Aug 24, 2006)

I think they should leave the isle wolves alone and live trap about 500 from the UP and transport them to the nearest tannery!:evil:

Ganzer


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## Josh R (Dec 4, 2010)

Robert Holmes said:


> Good point. I guess that the Common Loon, Brown Bat, Kirkland Warbler, and Grey Wolf don't need the DNR to spend millions of dollars on them anymore. Sorry I forgot to mention the endangered UP Whitetail Deer.


Yep!


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

MERGANZER said:


> Looking at what the situation is in the UP the last thing we need to do is promote the wolf populations.
> 
> Ganzer



The problem isn't the number of wolves in Michigan. The problem is that their concentration is too high in the UP. The DNR needs to trap and transfer UP wolves to every county in the state. They should start where the acceptance is the highest.


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## MERGANZER (Aug 24, 2006)

Luv2hunteup said:


> The problem isn't the number of wolves in Michigan. The problem is that their concentration is too high in the UP. The DNR needs to trap and transfer UP wolves to every county in the state. They should start where the acceptance is the highest.


UH.......NO! 

Ganzer


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Luv2hunteup said:


> The problem isn't the number of wolves in Michigan. The problem is that their concentration is too high in the UP. The DNR needs to trap and transfer UP wolves to every county in the state. They should start where the acceptance is the highest.


I was thinking that they could do a wolf/elk study in the NLP.


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## Midalake (Dec 7, 2009)

Robert Holmes said:


> I am all for live trapping 200 in the UP and transporting them to the island. Then they can live trap another 200 and relocate them in the LP. It will create lots of jobs for people to study them. If they are relocated in the Detroit area Michigan can have a unique urban wolf. The movie people can come to Michigan and film a movie called Urban Grey. I think that it would be a block buster.



BUT.........BUT That would leave only 258 left in the UP.......:lol::lol::lol:


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Robert Holmes said:


> I am all for live trapping 200 in the UP and transporting them to the island. Then they can live trap another 200 and relocate them in the LP. It will create lots of jobs for people to study them. If they are relocated in the Detroit area Michigan can have a unique urban wolf. The movie people can come to Michigan and film a movie called Urban Grey. I think that it would be a block buster.


I like your thinking. send 200 to detroit so they can take care of the wild pit bulls running around. if that whacky judge that put them back on the endangered list had her way that is exactly what would need to happen. I think at the ruling she stated that the wolves shouldnt come off the list until they are back their full original range.


_Posted from Michigan-sportsman.com App for Android_


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

DirtySteve said:


> I like your thinking. send 200 to detroit so they can take care of the wild pit bulls running around. if that whacky judge that put them back on the endangered list had her way that is exactly what would need to happen. I think at the ruling she stated that the wolves shouldnt come off the list until they are back their full original range.
> 
> 
> _Posted from Michigan-sportsman.com App for Android_


I could take a couple wolves here in Rosco Co. to take care of the neighbors dogs that they let out every a.m. to crap in my yard. There must be a law in this county that if you own a dog, you have to own three of them. I have to watch where I step when I get my mail out of the box.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

Anyone ever step in a pile of Wiemerauimer crap while cutting your grass? lol


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

You haven't lived until you been hit in the face by a pile of dog crap while weed wacking.


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

stickbow shooter said:


> You haven't lived until you been hit in the face by a pile of dog crap while weed wacking.


You must have been weed wacking pretty early in the morning to make your neighbor mad enough to throw dog crap at you.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

kzoofisher said:


> You must have been weed wacking pretty early in the morning to make your neighbor mad enough to throw dog crap at you.


I'm LOL!


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## U of M Fan (May 8, 2005)

Luv2hunteup said:


> The problem isn't the number of wolves in Michigan. The problem is that their concentration is too high in the UP. The DNR needs to trap and transfer UP wolves to every county in the state. They should start where the acceptance is the highest.



Agreed. 


Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

DirtySteve said:


> I like your thinking. send 200 to detroit so they can take care of the wild pit bulls running around. if that whacky judge that put them back on the endangered list had her way that is exactly what would need to happen. I think at the ruling she stated that the wolves shouldnt come off the list until they are back their full original range.
> 
> 
> _Posted from Michigan-sportsman.com App for Android_


Their original range includes the Lower, Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois. It would seem to me that the tolerance level would be pretty low in these areas. They hate the urban coyotes so what would they do with urban wolves? The wolves would not have to work hard to find food. There is a surplus of pets and livestock to fill the menu.


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

Robert Holmes said:


> Their original range includes the Lower, Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois. It would seem to me that the tolerance level would be pretty low in these areas. They hate the urban coyotes so what would they do with urban wolves? The wolves would not have to work hard to find food. There is a surplus of pets and livestock to fill the menu.


As much as I hate to admit it, you have a point.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

In her infinite wisdom the Judge failed to look at a map prior to making her decision. It seems that there is a vast stretch of water or ice for the wolves to cross to make it to the lower peninsula. Over the past 30 years very few wolves have taken the challenge. Until this happens or the wolves get some assistance (relocation trapping) they will continue to grow uncontrolled in the UP. This also presents a problem that the tolerance level is not good.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

the original historical range of the grey wolf is all of the lower 48......I believe that is what she is referring to. 



_Posted from Michigan-sportsman.com App for Android_


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## grapestomper (Jan 9, 2012)

Robert Holmes said:


> In her infinite wisdom the Judge failed to look at a map prior to making her decision. It seems that there is a vast stretch of water or ice for the wolves to cross to make it to the lower peninsula. Over the past 30 years very few wolves have taken the challenge. Until this happens or the wolves get some assistance (relocation trapping) they will continue to grow uncontrolled in the UP. This also presents a problem that the tolerance level is not good.


The wolves are smart. Why would you go to troll land if you didn't have to. :lol:


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

DirtySteve said:


> the original historical range of the grey wolf is all of the lower 48......I believe that is what she is referring to.
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted from Michigan-sportsman.com App for Android_


It has never been proven that the Western Grey Wolf ever lived in Michigan to begin with. Until it can be proven without a doubt they are considered an invasive species. The legality of her decision has some issues, much like HSUS trying to say that the coywolf exists in Michigan and all wolves should be protected. The judge needs a history lesson. Yes wolves did exist in Michigan the exact breed is unknown and thought to be the Eastern Timber Wolf.


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## Outdoorfan (May 14, 2012)

Bring the last 3 to the mainland, so they will have some deer to kill and eat, if they can find them. :lol:


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Robert Holmes said:


> Quote:
> 
> The judge needs a history lesson.


the judge needs alot more than a history lesson......unfortunately Ron White has it right when he said you cant fix stupid.


_Posted from Michigan-sportsman.com App for Android_


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

Outdoorfan said:


> Bring the last 3 to the mainland, so they will have some deer to kill and eat, if they can find them. :lol:


They do take the easy meal. Bring a few here. We'll accept them. Feral cats and such. How about dogs that the owners just let run free? I'm all for it. Little kids are the last thing on their menu. Something about formones. Afraid of human scent.


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## U of M Fan (May 8, 2005)

2508speed said:


> They do take the easy meal. Bring a few here. We'll accept them. Feral cats and such. How about dogs that the owners just let run free? I'm all for it. Little kids are the last thing on their menu. Something about formones. Afraid of human scent.



You should be careful what you wish for.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

2508speed said:


> They do take the easy meal. Bring a few here. We'll accept them. Feral cats and such. How about dogs that the owners just let run free? I'm all for it. Little kids are the last thing on their menu. Something about formones. Afraid of human scent.


So they would NEVER attack a human ? Google it. The chances of it happening are very low but it does happen.


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## WAUB-MUKWA (Dec 13, 2003)

stickbow shooter said:


> So they would NEVER attack a human ? Google it. The chances of it happening are very low but it does happen.


2 people killed in Michigan when there were wolves in both parts of Michigan.


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## U of M Fan (May 8, 2005)

stickbow shooter said:


> So they would NEVER attack a human ? Google it. The chances of it happening are very low but it does happen.



Exactly!! Why the heck would anyone assume that they wouldn't ever attack a human???? 


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## shell waster (Nov 5, 2004)

Off topic but didnt Michigan trade turkeys for moose with Ontario? Hows that plan going....Ontario has a thriving turkey population with turkey hunts, we got a thriving wolf population...


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

shell waster said:


> Off topic but didnt Michigan trade turkeys for moose with Ontario? Hows that plan going....Ontario has a thriving turkey population with turkey hunts, we got a thriving wolf population...



Look on the bright side the Stanley Cup has been here for nearly the entire time that turkey population has grown. I'd call that a good trade.


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## shell waster (Nov 5, 2004)

Luv2hunteup said:


> Look on the bright side the Stanley Cup has been here for nearly the entire time that turkey population has grown. I'd call that a good trade.


Im a leafs fan, so winning the stanely cup is like drawing a bull elk tag, it probably will never happen and if does its once in a lifetime. I cant believe the wings lost to tampa...


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Luv2hunteup said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Look on the bright side the Stanley Cup has been here for nearly the entire time that turkey population has grown. I'd call that a good trade.


that one gave me a good laugh. someone should put this on a toronto hockey site. you will have a movement started to eradicate the turkeys in ontario to lift the curse of the trade! 



_Posted from Michigan-sportsman.com App for Android_


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

It has to be at least 20 years since the cup resided in Canada. I'll have to look it up.


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## bjacobs (Feb 8, 2007)

Luv2hunteup said:


> It has to be at least 20 years since the cup resided in Canada. I'll have to look it up.


Montreal in '93. And the Canadiens are down 3-2 and the last Canadian team alive so it looks like it might be another year without the cup for our friends to the north.


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## flockshot (Feb 23, 2007)

DirtySteve said:


> I think the Feds should trap and transfer wolves to Isle Royale. They should only be allowed to take them from the EUP. It would help with genetic diversity.



after reading some of the articles posted here I am leaning towards the idea of letting the animals die off naturally (if they ever will). then plant caribou and lynx that were there before the wolves and moose. sounds just as cool to me.



_Posted from Michigan-sportsman.com App for Android_[/QUOTE]

this this and this..Ontario has done this on a few of the larger islands in the eastern lake, and its rumored that a population has developed along the main land shore. I spend a lot of time up there and always hope to see a caribou. and your right, woodland caribou need a natural native place more than the moose.


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## shell waster (Nov 5, 2004)

bjacobs said:


> Montreal in '93. And the Canadiens are down 3-2 and the last Canadian team alive so it looks like it might be another year without the cup for our friends to the north.


Beat montreal! Without Carey Price that team wouldnt make the playoffs.


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## TVCJohn (Nov 30, 2005)

> after reading some of the articles posted here I am leaning towards the idea of letting the animals die off naturally (if they ever will). then plant caribou and lynx that were there before the wolves and moose. sounds just as cool to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Learn something new everyday. I didn't know there were any caribou this far south. There is a pdf at the below link showing their distribution. 


http://www.ontario.ca/environment-and-energy/woodland-caribou




> Where it&#8217;s been found in Ontario
> The forest-dwelling woodland caribou was formerly found throughout most of northern Ontario. Its range has now receded and the species is generally found north of Sioux Lookout, Geraldton and Cochrane with a few isolated populations further south along the shoreline and islands of Lake Superior. Ontario&#8217;s forest-dwelling woodland caribou population is estimated to be roughly 5,000.
> In the rest of Canada, forest-dwelling woodland caribou are found throughout the boreal forest from Newfoundland and Labrador to the Northwest Territories.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Learn something new everyday. I didn't know there were any caribou this far south. There is a pdf at the below link showing their distribution. 




[/quote]



actually caribou. used to inhabit all of michigan at one time. I read this article a couple months ago that might interest you....

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10366_46403_63473-241037--,00.html


_Posted from Michigan-sportsman.com App for Android_


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## WAUB-MUKWA (Dec 13, 2003)

The caribou went away and the Virginia deer took over because 100 years ago there was hardly a deer to be found in the U.P.


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

But there's no "proof" that the Ontario caribou are the same species that used to live in Michigan. They would be an INVASIVE SPECIES!!! :lol::yikes:


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## U D (Aug 1, 2012)

INVASIVE SPECIES Things are only considered invasive if introduced by man. If the Caribou swim over form Canada they are not considered invasive.


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

I was just making a joke, not always easy to make clear in a post. Lots of people get confused about invasive vs non-native.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

It's either native, non-indigenous (moved here but not harming natives) or invasive (has negative effects on natives).....and then their are noxious invasive (very bad stuff)


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

kzoofisher said:


> But there's no "proof" that the Ontario caribou are the same species that used to live in Michigan. They would be an INVASIVE SPECIES!!! :lol::yikes:



There is no proof that they are not a native species either.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

kzoofisher said:


> But there's no "proof" that the Ontario caribou are the same species that used to live in Michigan. They would be an INVASIVE SPECIES!!!


hmmm interesting thought. is there any proof of another type of caribou near our area besides the woodland caribou from ontario? 


_Posted from Michigan-sportsman.com App for Android_


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Some duck hunters retrieved some caribou antlers from Hay Lake (Moran area) a few years back. They were carbon dated to be about 7000 years old.


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## meganddeg (Sep 29, 2010)

Back to the original intent of this thread (wolves on Isle Royale), here is the latest news: 

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2015/05/29/senators-wolves-letter/28154941/


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

"An extinction of wolves at Isle Royale could lead to significant, harmful changes to the ecosystem in this remote park," the senators said in the letter to Jarvis. "The three remaining wolves may struggle to reproduce, and if they do produce offspring, the tiny genetic pool will lead to inbreeding and further complications."

Such an increase in the moose population is expected to have wide-ranging impacts on vegetation and the ecology of the island unless controlled. That, in turn, could lead to a collapse of the moose population as the available plants are consumed.


And STILL no mention of allowing hunters an opportunity for a moose tag lottery. Ignorant bastages! Even though voluntary, they must be following the tenets of agenda 21. Our children will be hearing about the wolf inbreeding and resulting population crash 50 years from now.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Decades of research has been done on that island. It's a bad situation, but they need to let it go. They need to get the final chapter of the research.

They can then restock it if that's what's wanted


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

swampbuck said:


> Decades of research has been done on that island. It's a bad situation, but they need to let it go. They need to get the final chapter of the research.
> 
> They can then restock it if that's what's wanted


100% agree. The wolves will probably be gone by spring and the moose will eat themselves out of house and home within a couple years. After that there can be a hunt or a reintroduction or both. It would be a shame to end the study early when a tiny bit of patience is all that's required to let it play out.


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

I thought all 3 wolves left were males. There's a chance that a female could migrate across the ice this coming winter.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

CHASINEYES said:


> I thought all 3 wolves left were males. There's a chance that a female could migrate across the ice this coming winter.


I agree. Wolves can come back. Let it go for now. As many have stated it would be part of the study. If it gets to the point that the wolves never come back and the moose are over populating move some to the UP. Eventually wolves will come back


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

DirtySteve said:


> I agree. Wolves can come back. Let it go for now. As many have stated it would be part of the study. If it gets to the point that the wolves never come back and the moose are over populating move some to the UP. Eventually wolves will come back


Yup, let them show they are real in the study of wolves on Isle Royale. I wouldn't even move the moose if they become over populated. Let nature take it's course! It's a decades old study! Why screw it up by manipulating a study?


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## TVCJohn (Nov 30, 2005)

As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, there is another other island system that has wolves and moose hanging out. I don't see IR as being too special WRT to further studying. IMO....some of the comments in that article seem a tad too uninformed. Ice bridges, no ice bridges, wolves can't leave, wolves did leave, whoa!:coco:

Putting the wolf/moose study thing aside and looking at opportunity....I kinda like the concept of using the IR moose to repopulate the Yoop moose herd. Round a few hundred up over the summer, put them on a barge and send'em to the Yoop. Probably get a few volunteers for that effort. Could maybe get Wisconsin to go in on the deal and give them a few moose.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

John, besides being a national park and UN biosphere....Isle Royale is a very special place. Have you spent any time there.

In regards to the study, maybe this will help.
http://www.isleroyalewolf.org/overview/overview/at_a_glance.html


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## Josh R (Dec 4, 2010)

2508speed said:


> Yup, let them show they are real in the study of wolves on Isle Royale. I wouldn't even move the moose if they become over populated. Let nature take it's course! It's a decades old study! Why screw it up by manipulating a study?


It's been manipulated already with the intro of parvo back in the 80s


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## TVCJohn (Nov 30, 2005)

swampbuck said:


> John, besides being a national park and UN biosphere....Isle Royale is a very special place. Have you spent any time there.
> 
> In regards to the study, maybe this will help.
> http://www.isleroyalewolf.org/overview/overview/at_a_glance.html


I have never camped on it but flew into and landed there in the helo maybe 3-4 times doing company work or helping the USPS folks. While there we have the luxury of flying around it doing recon and pollution work. The last time I was up there circa 97/98 was because a larger boat ran aground on the north shore. We had to fly up there and check it out for pollution monitoring. 

From my perspective, there is an island or two similar to it in the Alaska and Canada range on the west coast. Because they are not in our area they do not get the media, tourism and marketing exposure like IR. Having been there and knowing about the other island systems on the west coast I guess that is why I don't grasp or embrace the same perspective as other folks. Not taking a position that IR is good or bad....just a different perspective.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

It is an amazing place, but my point on this topic is the research that has been done. You don't cut off decades of research, just as it nears the end.


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## TVCJohn (Nov 30, 2005)

swampbuck said:


> It is an amazing place, but my point on this topic is the research that has been done. You don't cut off decades of research, just as it nears the end.


I guess a logical question would be what are we getting out of this research that we do not already know about wolf/moose interaction and cohabitation?


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## WAUB-MUKWA (Dec 13, 2003)

swampbuck said:


> It is an amazing place, but my point on this topic is the research that has been done. You don't cut off decades of research, just as it nears the end.


Artificially inseminating an island is not a study.


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