# We're on to the rebuilding stage for the Empty Pockets II



## Macs13

For those that have been following along, you'll know that I purchased a 25' cruiser recently and after buying it and renting my own dock slip, the boat broke down on its maiden voyage. 

I just spoke with the mechanic. As some of you had suggested, it's the I/O coupler and the repair cost is in the ballpark that you guys figured - about $2k. 

HOWEVER, apparently the transom is suspect. This could've been the reason for the coupler failure due to flex while under load. The mechanic recommends that both repairs be done together because a suspect transom that flexes could screw the new coupler. 

Who has practical advice and experience with a transom replacement/repair? What did you learn? How expensive was this job? Of course, I popped around the Google and see many transom DIY pages and videos. Has anybody done that? If so, what was your firsthand experience like? 

I really don't know what to do. I'm not made of money. I don't mind investing in the right boat as long as I'm not going crazy with it. From what I've seen on the market, a boat this size and age is still a fairly expensive commodity so I maybe wouldn't wind up too far upside down in it if I have the repairs done. Advice is needed. 

 

 

Thanks

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## Shoeman

What make? Have the stringers checked before you do anything.


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## cwk33041

Id recommend having the boat surveyed to see if there are any additional repairs or failures that will be need to made in the near future. I estimate the cost to have the transom repair done professionally is at a minimum of 5K to 6K on a good day. With that you are already at 7K. Tough call. Suppose it depends if you really like this boat and it is worth it to you otherwise I would cut my losses and run.

I feel your pain, in the last two year, I had to replace to my kicker and my main engine at the tune of almost 18K.


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## bowhunter426

If you don't want to do it yourself, I would recommend walking away from the boat. I have done several transom replacements on Fiberglass boats. Unless there is sentimental value or it is a special hull, it will be an absolute money pit. Plan on costs around 4k plus to do the transom. Hopefully the stringers arent gone as well, but I bet they are.

I have never used it, but seacast could be an option that might limit the amount of glass work. You may be able to remove the cap, pull the bad wood, cover the drive hole and pour


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## Shoeman

I'll help him! Just got finished with mine. 











Not bad, eh?


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## Lake Boy

Sooo,sorry to hear about what is happening.Welcome to boat ownership.I know its to late for you,but let this be a cautionary tale to anyone looking for a boat.Please have it surveyed.It might cost more now but if you dont,well we know.Again,sorry.


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## Macs13

Thanks for the advice about stringers, guys. I'll put that on my list.

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## Chessieman

If the coupling went then it is probably a Searay or such that has the split stringers. Two grand for a coupling replacement? Sounds like the upper lower went and you had new boots also. That is why if you ever take off a O.D. you align it to your motor ( adjust motor to match O.D.).


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## Shoeman

Had a buddy with a waterlogged transom on his 20' Tiara. He put over a thousand hours on that thing before selling it. It was so heavy he had to plug the scuppers so it wouldn't sink. (well it did once.. dockside...LOL)


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## terrylee86

My first question is it a glass or aluminum boat. If it is glass, and it sounds like it is, you are really behind the eight ball. Bad transom in a glass boat usually translates into iffy stringers. If you are handy, you can rebuild the transom and stringers. There are a ton of YouTube videos doing just that. It is a lot of work as you will see in your search. If you have to redo the transom you may want to convert the boat to outboards. Main and kicker. That one photo looks like the guy did just that. If you can’t do the work yourself, you will be upside down on this project in a heartbeat. If you have major stringer work too, it could easily be 10K. I live in Florida in the winter and I am on the intercoastal and I have never seen an I/O on the water. Every boat under 30’ are outboards and the larger boats are inboards. I asked a mechanic at our Marina and he said I/O’s don’t last in salt water much more than 5 years because of the worms that get into the transom through the bellows. The boat club down the waterway from us has over 100 boats and all are Yamaha outboards.


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## Macs13

From this angle it looks like a boat. It's funny how money pit and boat can be so similar in appearance.









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## Bottomfeeder

If the boat in question is the one he posted a week ago in the perch palooza thread it looks like an old Chris craft ?, not sure if it’s wood but has a lapstrake hull ?
maybe 60s - 70s era ?
Any pics of the transom would help, inside and outside.
Do you have space to take on a do it yourself project like that?
lot’s of info on replacing a transom out there but can be done yourself if you hav enough time and energy.
I had a 26 ft Penn Yan that never did run right, donated it to a charity and took the write off.

Good luck !


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## Shoeman

Looks like a Cruisers Inc (Mackinac?)


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## brewster

Macs13 said:


> From this angle it looks like a boat. It's funny how money pit and boat can be so similar in appearance.
> View attachment 785237
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app





I thought that was the definition of a boat; a hole in the water you pour money into.


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## Baybum

I believe I mentioned something like this in a different thread. If the transom is bad, stringers likely have rot as well. Unless you are prepared to strip it down to the hull, lay new stringers and put in a new transom then walk away. Fibreglass grinding is a nasty, sweaty itchy task. Full tyvek suit, respirator, and many....many hours grinding the hull smooth. Only good thing is its basically a new boat when you're done.

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## John Hine

Easy peezey. 
Put shifter all the way into forward gear.
Pull outdrive off; (you tube), 6 nuts, ram shaft & spedo tube, pick it up & let it drop to break it loose & be ready, it’ll slide off.
Label & unhook all hoses & wiring needed to pull the motor, ( it’s just like pulling a car motor only easier) take lots of pictures & lable everything. LEAVE THE MOTOR MOUNTS HOOKED TO THE MOTOR!! Unbolt mounts from stringers. Lift & slide the motor forward, coupler is on back of motor, flywheel. 
Remove the old one, 3 bolts & replace. 
slide motor back into place. 
Yutube how to check I/o motor alignment, borrow the tool from local boat shop or buy one. 
replace outdrive, paying special attention to get the shifter foot into the shoe as you put it together. 
hook everything back up & go fish. 
forgrt about that transom, as long as you can’t poke yer finger thru it! Lol

I had never done this before, it took me a little over 6 hours start to finish, $265 on parts for the coupler. For my money it was worth replacing the gimbal bearing, a bellows kit & lower shift cable at the same time.

hope this helps


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## sixft4par

When in big water you really want to know what you have. I'd be nervous about pouring money into it. How many hours on the engine? A few grand here and there and pretty soon you just could have bought one in working order.


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## perchjerker

Seeing as you really don't know what you are doing here I would cut my losses and walk away. Sorry to have to say that but a boat that old like that unless it was pristine which it isn't that's the hard truth. I have seen people like you dump tons of money into something like this with a bad outcome


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## the roofer

I agree with all the above..walk away..


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## the roofer

And how good does the mechanic know boats?..what makes him think transom is weak?


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## Sharkbait11

Paint it green and brown, put it in the woods next to a feeding area or travel corridor and shoot some deer from the comfort of your own boat. Congrats on the new deer blind! In 20 years from now some kids will come by and wonder why the F is there a boat in the forest, creepy!

But seriously, if its going to cost even half of what you paid for it, cut your losses and move on. My cousin had problems on a I/O they rebuilt the tranny for 2k then ran it not even 5hrs and it blew again. Another 2k later he sold it and didnt look back. Now hes boatless, at least you have the red rocket to get you out. Hope it works out for you Macs, been there before with used things I got the short end of the stick, sometimes its futile but hopefully you get a good cheap solution and can enjoy it. It looks pretty comfy.


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## Macs13

John Hine said:


> Easy peezey.
> Put shifter all the way into forward gear.
> Pull outdrive off; (you tube), 6 nuts, ram shaft & spedo tube, pick it up & let it drop to break it loose & be ready, it’ll slide off.
> Label & unhook all hoses & wiring needed to pull the motor, ( it’s just like pulling a car motor only easier) take lots of pictures & lable everything. LEAVE THE MOTOR MOUNTS HOOKED TO THE MOTOR!! Unbolt mounts from stringers. Lift & slide the motor forward, coupler is on back of motor, flywheel.
> Remove the old one, 3 bolts & replace.
> slide motor back into place.
> Yutube how to check I/o motor alignment, borrow the tool from local boat shop or buy one.
> replace outdrive, paying special attention to get the shifter foot into the shoe as you put it together.
> hook everything back up & go fish.
> forgrt about that transom, as long as you can’t poke yer finger thru it! Lol
> 
> I had never done this before, it took me a little over 6 hours start to finish, $265 on parts for the coupler. For my money it was worth replacing the gimbal bearing, a bellows kit & lower shift cable at the same time.
> 
> hope this helps


That is helpful and it sounds like something that I could PROBABLY pull off. I'm very handy with trucks but I always stop at engine/trans work that requires one to be removed. 

The real grind is that SOMETHING must have caused the coupler to come apart. The mechanic feels that it's the transom based on visual inspection. He hasn't pulled anything apart yet as he's waiting on my direction. 

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## Macs13

sixft4par said:


> When in big water you really want to know what you have. I'd be nervous about pouring money into it. How many hours on the engine? A few grand here and there and pretty soon you just could have bought one in working order.


What you say is true. On the other hand, I know I have a good engine, hull, electronics, etc. The lower end of outdrive was rebuilt 2 years ago. So, in theory, a new coupler and a rebuilt transom would give me the confidence that I've attended to everything, more or less. 

I don't remember how many hours on the engine but it runs very smoothly. 

Of course, I also jumped on FB marketplace and scrolled boats in the $5-10k range and, at least on a cursory scroll, I didn't see anything that I would know has a good transom, coupler, etc. 25' plus cabin cruiser style boats, that is. That's the flippity flip. 

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## John Hine

Macs13 said:


> That is helpful and it sounds like something that I could PROBABLY pull off. I'm very handy with trucks but I always stop at engine/trans work that requires one to be removed.
> 
> The real grind is that SOMETHING must have caused the coupler to come apart. The mechanic feels that it's the transom based on visual inspection. He hasn't pulled anything apart yet as he's waiting on my direction.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


The biggest reason for the coupler failure is lack of lubrication. If your lucky enough to have a grease fitting on the shaft it will be in a nearly unreachable spot, many need the outdrive to be removed to lube. It’s hard to picture but every time you trim up or down the shaft is traveling in & out, metal gulls up & becomes like a file. The standard “the transom is probably bad” answer really means “I can make more money on other projects”. On a boat like that you’d have to pull the motor to actually see the submerged section of the transom. No horse in the race for me but i just went thru this 3 years ago & thought I’d share. I’m actually glad I did it, it helped me understand how that all works.


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## perchjerker

So what kind of boat is it? 
Make model year engine etc 

I don't think I saw that anywhere here


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## Alaby

What kind of outdrive,Mercruiser or OMC? My mechanic wouldn't touch OMC stringer outdrive, but he rebuilt my OMC Cobra for 1800 in 2004 and rebuilt my transom for 2000 in 2006 on my 1986 19' glass Sylvan. I ran that boat until 2020 and it didn't leak and ran good when I sold it. Not sure why he didn't notice transom when He did outdrive, but didn't have to mess with transom at that time.


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## Mrfish989

Insurance claim send it to the bottom of the lake 

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## bowhunter426

Macs13 said:


> What you say is true. On the other hand, I know I have a good engine, hull, electronics, etc. The lower end of outdrive was rebuilt 2 years ago. So, in theory, a new coupler and a rebuilt transom would give me the confidence that I've attended to everything, more or less.
> 
> I don't remember how many hours on the engine but it runs very smoothly.
> 
> Of course, I also jumped on FB marketplace and scrolled boats in the $5-10k range and, at least on a cursory scroll, I didn't see anything that I would know has a good transom, coupler, etc. 25' plus cabin cruiser style boats, that is. That's the flippity flip.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Outdrives are easy. Lots of you tube how to and the hull truth forum has some very knowledgeable people. Pull the outdrive off and poke the wood. You could even drill a small hole on the back to gage wood quality without doing any work. Seal them up when done of it is still good


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## piketroller

Find a shallow marina, a really shallow one where the hull can sit in the bottom with the deck above the waterline. Pull the engine and electronics to sell to pay the slip fee for a few years and learn to enjoy marina life. There’s a couple rip roaring parties a week at the marina by me.


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## Macs13

John Hine said:


> The biggest reason for the coupler failure is lack of lubrication. If your lucky enough to have a grease fitting on the shaft it will be in a nearly unreachable spot, many need the outdrive to be removed to lube. It’s hard to picture but every time you trim up or down the shaft is traveling in & out, metal gulls up & becomes like a file. The standard “the transom is probably bad” answer really means “I can make more money on other projects”. On a boat like that you’d have to pull the motor to actually see the submerged section of the transom. No horse in the race for me but i just went thru this 3 years ago & thought I’d share. I’m actually glad I did it, it helped me understand how that all works.


In order to replace the coupler, I'll need to pull the motor. From there, I can gage transom condition. I think that's my course of action. The more I think about it, the more it seems the best option. 

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## Quack Addict

Assuming you have a Mercruiser drive, the biggest reason couplers fail is from engine misalignment. That can be caused by rotted stringers, rotted transom or somebody that doesn't know how to properly align an engine.

Regarding the question about couplers and transom, I have done everything involved, multiple times. Did it for a living as a marine mechanic for several years. A transom and stringers is a time consuming job but can turn a lump of coal into a diamond if done right. Plan on the floor having to be redone while you're at it. 

I have a bunch of pics from some jobs I have done in the past but not on this device. 

As a starting point, you will need 2# flotation foam, marine plywood, woven roving and/or biaxial weave, and poly or marine epoxy resin. There's a thesis paper in there alone, so Google those terms and start educating yourself. A good site to buy from is US Composites.

Happy to share info but may be easier thru PM or by phone conversation. Redoing a transom and floor are not complicated but a bit like a jigsaw puzzle. Stuff has to be done in a certain order, prep work has to be correct, etc. Garbage in = garbage out.


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## Bottomfeeder

Not trying to add to your list of things to do 😬 but while you’re in there, Check or replace fuel and fuel filler lines if they haven’t been done recently. 
Wasn’t going to mention the gas tank but I guess I did.
Good luck !


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## perchjerker

I would have a good look at the tank itself if you are going to go through all of this


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## Fishndude

Congrats on your new-to-you boat. This is one reason outboards rock.


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## Bucman

If you can do it like JH I would and then I would cut my losses. Or get a couple other mechanics not at a marina to check it. Either way I would try to off that boat. 
Sorry but buyer beware on boats.


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## Macs13

Bucman said:


> If you can do it like JH I would and then I would cut my losses. Or get a couple other mechanics not at a marina to check it. Either way I would try to off that boat.
> Sorry but buyer beware on boats.


This view may change, but I disagree with your sentiment and others that have posted similar thoughts. 

Go into boat sales websites, FB marketplace, etc and look at the purchase price of boats in the 25' and up class. It's almost impossible to find anything newer than early 80s for under $7k and almost all of this boats mention right in the ad that it needs a new transom, coupler, floor, and/or it hasn't been run in 6 years. 

If I want a boat that I feel safe and comfortable on Erie and Michigan - something that doesn't require perfect weather like my bass boat - my options are fairly limited. 

Obviously, the transom work is intimidating. I've done a bunch of reading and watched a few videos now and it seems that if well thought out, it's akin to a tedious jigsaw puzzle. Cut out the back glass, pull out the wood, put in new wood or plastic based specialty wood replacement, and then layer glass and epoxy. Lots of sanding. Drill holes and pass-through for outdrive. New gelcoat and paint. 

As for the coupler, other than physically lifting the engine out (boat will be too tall for my cherry picker, I think), that part of the job seems pretty straightforward - remove outdrive, take lots of pics, disconnect plumbing and wiring harness, remove engine mount bolts, and pluck engine. At that point, it's just a matter of swapping the coupler and making sure engine is aligned with outdrive upon reassembly. 

The REAL question is whether it's worth the month of work (dinking and dunking at it in between my work and hunting schedule this fall) or is it worth it to pay $5k-ish which is a lot of money to me. 

Cons - it's time consuming work and the boat will miss 2021. Pros - good engine, good hull, all electronics and cabin appliances and whatnot work properly. 

Besides - I already own the boat. Am I going to be able to sell it, knowing what I do now? 

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## cwk33041

Based the condition of the boat you could sell it for parts, sell the outdrive, engine, ect. Just be honest about what your selling to the buyer and recoup some of the cost. 

Or take on the challenge, fix it and use it. Minus what your time is worth, it is likely to still be cheaper then buying a 25 foot boat that will be in condition yours will be once its fixed. 

If you don't decide to fix it, id wait it out for the market to cool. It's outrageous what some boats are going for right now. And if you do find another boat spent the few hundred to have it surveyed. 

Best of luck to you.


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## Macs13

cwk33041 said:


> Based the condition of the boat you could sell it for parts, sell the outdrive, engine, ect. Just be honest about what your selling to the buyer and recoup some of the cost.
> 
> Or take on the challenge, fix it and use it. Minus what your time is worth, it is likely to still be cheaper then buying a 25 foot boat that will be in condition yours will be once its fixed.
> 
> If you don't decide to fix it, id wait it out for the market to cool. It's outrageous what some boats are going for right now. And if you do find another boat spent the few hundred to have it surveyed.
> 
> Best of luck to you.


Oh yeah. The parts and materials to fix it myself should be a pittance compared to value of the boat. The coupler is a couple hundred bucks. Fiberglass, epoxy, hardener, sandpaper, etc won't come to an outrageous amount either, I wouldn't think. As with most big projects, it's about how much time and frustration do I want to dedicate to it. 

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## John Hine

By the time you see how easy it is to fix, along with the fact that I bet your transom is fine. You’ll be happy that you kept it and you’ll have the confidence of knowing how all that inner stuff works.


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## Quack Addict

The best way to buy poly resin is online through a retailer that moves a lot of volume. The crap you see at Autozone with a layer of dust on the top is likely past its prime. Poly resin is pretty toxic and you will need a respirator with it. The peroxide hardener can also cause some pretty wicked chemical burns to your skin. You dont feel it at first but give it about 5 or 10 minutes and its like someone is holding a blow torch to you. You may have to pay hazmat shipping poly resin.

Epoxy is not as toxic to breath (smells like peanut butter) but can be problematic to apply additional coats once cured.

I wouldn't gel coat the floor. It has a tendency to get real dirty. Use textured marine floor paint. It is more user friendly, doesnt get as dirty and easier to clean.


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## wyandot

Macs13 said:


> IFFFFFF the transom and stringers are good, what caused the coupler to fail? Most of what I've read says that it's almost always the transom and or stringers causing a misalignment that manifests itself under load due to flex. It's such a big if.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Are the splines stripped out or did the rubber fail? I changed my share of Mercruiser couplings during my 20 year stint. Some were warranty work due to manufacturing defects. Some were from water intrusion. Some were mis-alignment, loose motor mounts and rotten stringers. Most of them were from a lot of hours spent trolling.


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## Quack Addict

Just my .02 on couplers - spend the extra and get a Quicksilver / Mercruiser service part. The marina I use to work for tried to skimp one time for a customer that wanted everything done on the cheap. He was warned but said he wanted the $100 aftermarket unit vs the $250 Quicksilver. Said do it cheap. The cheap coupler failed the 180° test while aligning the engine. Had to take it back apart and put a different one in, which ran up the labor charge.

I have never had a Quicksilver coupler fail alignment. There are also engine mount bushings on the gimbal housing that should be replaced. When the coupler junks out, the gimbal bushings can go too.


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## the roofer

I sent u picks of The office bro...didn’t unwrap for pics of the cabin..but it’s also beautiful..


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## the roofer

If u don’t want it I’ll sell mine for 4 grand and I’ll buy the office..


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## Macs13

I drove all the way back up there today to really look around. Stringers are solid. When the mechanic lifted up on the outdrive to show me, the transom did have flex. It seemed pretty minimal to me, but what do I know. He threw a couple more things at me to consider so I'm currently in the same spot as before - unsure but leaning toward having them repair the boat. Either way, kangbang and deer are creeping right up on me so I'll be out doing my thing one way or the other. There's also the chance that the lake will lay down once this fall and give the Red Rocket  another shot at her bounty.

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## Macs13

the roofer said:


> I sent u picks of The office bro...didn’t unwrap for pics of the cabin..but it’s also beautiful..


She's pretty, sure, and she looks exactly like my boat. . It looks like my boat with rod holders on the top (which I have in the back of my Denali alongside a downrigger mount thing for the back of the boat) 

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## gunfun13

I did a transom replacement project this past year. It is not difficult, but very time consuming and alot of hard work. 

I posted some of the progress on the boat rigging thread.


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## bowhunter426

Macs13 said:


> I drove all the way back up there today to really look around. Stringers are solid. When the mechanic lifted up on the outdrive to show me, the transom did have flex. It seemed pretty minimal to me, but what do I know. He threw a couple more things at me to consider so I'm currently in the same spot as before - unsure but leaning toward having them repair the boat. Either way, kangbang and deer are creeping right up on me so I'll be out doing my thing one way or the other. There's also the chance that the lake will lay down once this fall and give the Red Rocket  another shot at her bounty.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Any flex is too much. You should be able to lift with everything you have on the outdrive and there should be zero transom movement. If you replace the coupler you could get another month or 10 years out of the transom


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## UPEsox

Run! Unless you're ready to spend at least 10 k. Any flex in a transom is way too much. If the job is going to be done right the engine needs to be pulled. The labor to dig out the rotted core and rebuild the transom should be about 7k, then expect another 3-4 aligning the engine, and replacing bellows, gaskets and anything else thats not easy to get at without the engine being in the air. 

My personal opinion is if the transom is already wet then the stringers are lonnnnnng gone.


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## perchjerker

I agreed. 

Sounds like he is on to his hunting now.


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## FishManDan

Just a FYI on the availability of resin right now is limited unless you want to pay lumber pricing. Seems there is only one plant which makes and they are in Texas. The freeze killed all stock on hand and they have not caught up. Try to order a glass boat.









Resin Supply Interruptions Due to Big Freeze - Diamond Fiberglass


While the Big Freeze experienced by the gulf states this winter is over, there are many lingering effects. One of those is a disruption in the nation’s chemical supplies. A significant number of the chemical plants supplying North America are located in areas that were hard hit by this...




www.diamondfiberglass.com


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## Macs13

UPEsox said:


> Run! Unless you're ready to spend at least 10 k. Any flex in a transom is way too much. If the job is going to be done right the engine needs to be pulled. The labor to dig out the rotted core and rebuild the transom should be about 7k, then expect another 3-4 aligning the engine, and replacing bellows, gaskets and anything else thats not easy to get at without the engine being in the air.
> 
> My personal opinion is if the transom is already wet then the stringers are lonnnnnng gone.


I'm going to have it fixed. Good a reasonable quote from a good marina. I hope to hash out the details tomorrow. 

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## Sharkbait11

Way to stick with it, thats gonna be a game changer once its fixed. It reminds me of a floating shaggin wagon for some reason 🤟


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## CHASINEYES

Macs13 said:


> I'm going to have it fixed. Good a reasonable quote from a good marina. I hope to hash out the details tomorrow.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


As mentioned earlier, I would demand genuine mercruiser bellows and not aftermarket. Aftermarket are thin piles o junk that will tear far too soon. That is assuming its has a mercruiser drive. A marine mechanic installed sierra bellows on my friends Islander twice in 2 years before going with mercruiser on the 3rd install. The mercs have lasted years. That particular mechanic won't use them again after seeing the difference in materials and burning up shop time.


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## chemo13

I recently went through the boat buying process and looked at four boats. Put offer on three and all surveyed including a separate engine survey. We were advised to pass on first two boats due to moisture, electrical issues. Third time was a chram and we picked up a great boat without issues. 

All boats looked nice on the surface, but as always the devil is in the details. The cost of all the surveys were over $5000 but I consider it a drop in the bucket as compared to what I would have spent in repairs later down the road. 


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## UPEsox

Macs13 said:


> I'm going to have it fixed. Good a reasonable quote from a good marina. I hope to hash out the details tomorrow.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Good luck, you will have peace of mind once the repairs are done. Really make sure those stringers aren't wet because this will be the one chance to chase that issue. As mentioned above, unless absolutely necessary do not go the Sierra parts route.


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## 2kidshunting

Don’t walk away. RUN


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## DennisDW

I didn't read all the comments but if your not in a hurry most boat mechanics/shops are looking for work in January/February. Might be an option to help them and help you keep the cost down. That is what I did 10 years ago when my transom on my SeaRay went soft. Boats are money pits no matter what.


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## UPEsox

Wondering how this is going. Have the engine out yet, considering slapping a yanmar diesel in there......because you should.

Seriously, if you have the coin and are attached to the boat, now is a perfect time to repower and really make it mint. Diggin up an old thread but projects like this are what I do for a living and this could be a cool one if you want to go through with it.


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## UPEsox

of course if you repower you are looking at a bill closer to 50k transom and stringer work included. I have had people dump 200K+ into sailboats that were initially worth 35K. Its all about what you want, boats are always going to be a massive moniey sink, its just a matter of how you want to set that money on fire. 



There's always a Tiara 3600 Open on the market as well


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## Macs13

UPEsox said:


> Where you at on this?
> 
> Send pix


This was today. She now has a sexy new booty (transom). I picked her up from the fiberglass guy (he was awesome) and trailered her back up to the marina that's doing all of the mechanical stuff. They're going to let me grind off the rest of the old bottom paint and repaint it as well as let me buff her out in their lot after she's reassembled. That way, I don't have to trailer her back and forth 2 hours each way just to clean her up. Considering that work that I still have to do and what they're doing, I think she'll be in the water by May (and my pockets may actually be as empty as the boat's name implies) 























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## perchjerker

wholly cow it looks great!


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## UPEsox

Looks like he did a coosa layup for your transom, you went to the right people.


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## Macs13

UPEsox said:


> Looks like he did a coosa layup for your transom, you went to the right people.


I'm not sure but I have complete confidence. The fella, Jim at Beacon Cove, is one of those career long fiberglass specialist guys - attention to detail, one man operation. He took the time to go over everything before and after, crawling in the boat and pointing it all out rather than just describing it. He even put a door on my shrink wrap cover at no charge after I told him that I planned to reuse it a couple of times. 

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## UPEsox

Good boat work is worth every penny, especially if you can trust the guy. 

Now onto the fun part


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## cwk33041

So Macs, how goes the progress? Gonna be ready for the water soon?


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## Macs13

We've got an update! 

I got a call on Friday that the Pockets was ready for pick up. So, I had the marina leave her on the sling hoist for me and my fishing partner and I drove up to the top of LSC yesterday to do the thing. 

To recap, the I/O coupler spun apart on me during the initial attempt at a maiden voyage last year. I was stranded at anchor for 3 or 4 hours on Anchor Bay. I hadn't packed any food or drink and it was dead hot - mid summer. The Coast Guard rescued me after identifying me as high risk because of my age and the heat (which cracked me up as I'm still - barely - in my 30s) and brought me water and towed me in. The culprit was a bad transom which flexed hard on the waves of LSC causing the coupler to rip apart. So, the drive train came out, the transom was repaired by a guy down in Detroit area, and the engine was tuned up at Expert. They also preemptively swapped out hard to reach items like the starter and alternator. 

So, we got up there around 10 in the morning with the goal of cleaning off a few years of crud and oxidation. I figured that since she'll be in the water for the rest of the season, it needed to be done before we launched. All that I had to work with were cleaning rags, Meguiers Marine 3 in 1, and an orbital polisher that is more designed for finish waxing than heavy buffing but by 2 in the afternoon I had attended to the boat all the way around. I didn't do all of her, but just the parts that will be difficult to get while in the water. We also got the Garmin sv93 installed so I have a graph. 

Let the adventure begin - I pulled off at 2:20 (my buddy driving the truck and boat trailer) to sail the Empty Pockets II from Algonac to Monroe. I first navigated the North Channel and had to navigate all of the jet skiers and party boaters. Then, it was out into Anchor Bay which I found highly stressful because the Garmin lists many of the areas as 1ft deep - I know that it must be deeper than 1ft, but it's still damn shallow for it to be listed that way. Also, LSC was rocking and rolling with the waves and wind and I actually had to use the windshield wipers a bunch due to the spray and splashing. 

Once I got into the main lake, I cut a path to intersect with the shipping channel - the green and red buoys relieve the stress of hidden sandbars and whatnot. Did you know that LSC is 25 miles?! You can't see the other side - how is it not a Great Lake? Anywho, on to the D!

The Detroit River was an easy run because I'm familiar with it. I should have stayed left of Belle Isle for less traffic and fewer shallows, but I stuck to what I was experienced with. By the time I hit the D, my buddy was approaching the docks in my truck. He'll be waiting a while. 

As I approached the exit of the river into Erie, my fuel gauge was buried on E. It had hardly budged at all from the half tank that I started with until around the post office area and then it started dropping quickly. This is, for all intents and purposes, my maiden voyage so there's so much that I'm unfamiliar with and that I've forgotten since the original owner explained it all to me last year. The fuel gauge's swift and precipitous drop being one of those things. 

As a bit of a digression, the old man that sold me the boat (for something like $1,500) was named Herm. He was a retired police officer that had owned and loved the boat for over 20 years. He kept it docked and stored year-round at Sassy Marina. Herm had failing health and his hips were pretty well shot; that's why he was selling the boat as his step son was uninterested in it. The really cool thing was that during the sea trial before I bought it, I got to ride with and watch Herm sail his boat for the last time (and the first time he'd done it in a few years) and you wouldn't have seen a more joyous and competent captain on the lake that day. Herm passed away late last year, just a few months after selling his boat to me. A significant chunk of my decision to repair the boat and dump real money into it was actually Herm's love for the boat and even though it was a huge stressor and financial burden for me, I didn't enjoy the thought of the boat being pawned off to the next guy - I wanted it to be loved like Herm loved her. So, RIP Herm. 

Erie was a breeze. The lake was only mildly choppy (although the Red Rocket  may have disagreed as to the relative choppiness). I did manage to safely get to the River Raisin and up the river to my new marina. However, I first had to stop at the fuel dock. Between my mental exhaustion from the trip and this being the first time I'd docked the boat anywhere, this was an adventure in itself that resulted in me backing out twice, heading up river for a turn around, and smacking into the dock pretty good. That made me feel like a smart guy as everybody at the marina seemed to be there partying with campfires and family - great first impression. 

I got to my dock, picked up my buddy, and very unsuccessfully attempted to troll for a couple of hours. However, the boat wouldn't get below 3 MPH and I haven't had the opportunity to set her up with rod holders. Also, we didn't go out far enough to escape the green nasty water, mostly because I was exhausted. Did I mention that it took 4 hours and 10 minutes to make that 60+ mile trip and I hadn't eaten since we left Jackson at 8 in the morning? Lmao. 

Next up is continuing to clean and buff, redoing all of the silicone around the seams, fitting her for walleye and downriggers (thanks again to @FishManDan for those), and cleaning out, cleaning up, and organizing the cabin. Also, learning how to dock a boat. Lmao. 

In the end, it was a mostly successful trip with a huge dent in the wallet ($300 in boat gas alone to fill her up) although that was fitting for a boat named Empty Pockets. 

Here are a few pics. Note the change in my posture and expression from the beginning on sunny LSC to the sunset on Erie. Bwahahahaha. I slept like a log. 















































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## Waif

Dock bonker!

No lunch again.

No first mate.

You need to stash an ammocan with some tinned meat (or dried fruit , trail mix , and hardtack . Jerky if you are eating meat . (Pilot bread is scarce around here for some reason. Was a standard must have for remote travel up North for emergencies.) 
No folks don't love such as hardtack. That's how it's there when you need it. Unlike the , where the heck did the trail mix go routine.
Oh , and bring some water and toilet paper too.

Congrats! You survived a good shakedown cruise. Without scuttling your craft.


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## Waif




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## UPEsox

Great to hear, limited excitement is the best way for a delivery to go. Looking forward to seeing fish pics in the future. 

Im on hour 26 of a blow boat race, no wind....just got internet but beer and green supplies are low. Send me some wind MS members.


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## FishManDan

Congratulations on your first successful adventure on the Empty Pockets 👏. I picked up a bumper floating on lake Erie yesterday to add to one I found on the DR that you are welcome to.


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## sparky18181

Great looking boat Mac. I hope you get the same pleasure out of it that herm did.


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## Macs13

sparky18181 said:


> Great looking boat Mac. I hope you get the same pleasure out of it that herm did.


Thanks, man. I'm already in love with the boat. It's just unique looking. It sure gets a lot of curious stares from other boaters. At least, I assume that's why they're staring.  

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## FishManDan

Matching set both found floating away.


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## Macs13

FishManDan said:


> Matching set both found floating away.
> View attachment 840521


Lol. Not mine. Good find, though. The only thing I lost on the trip was some weight in my wallet. 

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## Erik

Nice boat and heck of an adventure


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## Fishndude

Congrats on a successful launch, and run. You can troll spoons for Walleyes at 3 mph, and catch fish.


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## Macs13

Fishndude said:


> Congrats on a successful launch, and run. You can troll spoons for Walleyes at 3 mph, and catch fish.


Thanks!

My next question for the walleye guys that run Erie a lot, such as Roofer, @FishManDan , @Mike da Carpenter , etc and anybody else out there - with my size boat (25' class) am I better served with a trolling plate, bags, or a kicker? I'm leaning toward bags in the immediate term but I really have no experience with any of those choices. 

Furthermore, I have a 9.9 that i can use as a kicker and the mounting bracket, but what's the best way to install it with console control - I can't sit back there and tiller steer this big arse boat. Lol.

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## BuckeyeFootball

Macs13 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> My next question for the walleye guys that run Erie a lot, such as Roofer, @FishManDan , @Mike da Carpenter , etc and anybody else out there - with my size boat (25' class) am I better served with a trolling plate, bags, or a kicker? I'm leaning toward bags in the immediate term but I really have no experience with any of those choices.
> 
> Furthermore, I have a 9.9 that i can use as a kicker and the mounting bracket, but what's the best way to install it with console control - I can't sit back there and tiller steer this big arse boat. Lol.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Definitely a kicker but bags will work in the meantime. Im not sure if it will work with your boat (because of the swim platform) but the cheapest and easiest way is to just connect your main to the kicker with a tiebar or EZ Steer.


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## Shoeman

Used trolling bags on several boats over the years. The only drawback is the amount of hours you’ll put on your motor(s)


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## Macs13

BuckeyeFootball said:


> Definitely a kicker but bags will work in the meantime. Im not sure if it will work with your boat (because of the swim platform) but the cheapest and easiest way is to just connect your main to the kicker with a tiebar or EZ Steer.


Here's my dumb question for the day (or at least the first one) - does the tie bar stay connected all the time or does it need to be removed each time you switch between main and kicker? Also, is there additional wear on the steering cables what with them turning both outdrive and kicker? 

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## Macs13

I settled on getting 2 42" trolling anchors/socks. That was purely a guess as the damn things didn't offer any kind of chart on the boxes. Lol. 

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## sparky18181

Macs13 said:


> I settled on getting 2 42" trolling anchors/socks. That was purely a guess as the damn things didn't offer any kind of chart on the boxes. Lol.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Just make sure you tie them off properly cause I don’t want to read about you having to dive to cut them loose from the prop


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## Sharkbait11

Macs13 said:


> I settled on getting 2 42" trolling anchors/socks. That was purely a guess as the damn things didn't offer any kind of chart on the boxes. Lol.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Look for a good deal on a 10-15hp 2stroke kicker, anything made in 1980s or above will hold its value for a few years. I just sold a 1983 2 stroke 10hp for 800 bucks the same I paid for it 5 years ago. Kickers are pretty bulletproof, and like shoeman said keep the hours off the main. Depending on the weight you're pushing you might need a 15hp or more? Cool boat, long road but you finally made it!


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## Macs13

Sharkbait11 said:


> Look for a good deal on a 10-15hp 2stroke kicker, anything made in 1980s or above will hold its value for a few years. I just sold a 1983 2 stroke 10hp for 800 bucks the same I paid for it 5 years ago. Kickers are pretty bulletproof, and like shoeman said keep the hours off the main. Depending on the weight you're pushing you might need a 15hp or more? Cool boat, long road but you finally made it!


I have my super reliable 9.9 Chrysler 2 stroke but I'm not sure if I can hook up a linkage - swim platform in the way I think - without another out of the water job drilling into the brand new transom.  

Thanks! I just spent a little time cleaning her up this afternoon. Previous owner kept everything. Lol 

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## Sharkbait11

This could be an option, expensive but saves gas lol

Minn Kota Riptide Engine Mount EM 160 Saltwater Trolling Motor – TrollingMotors.net








RT EM 160


Minn Kota's EM 160 Saltwater Engine Mount motor stays hidden under the water! Attached to your outboard motor, it provides the convenience of a trolling motor without the hassle




www.trollingmotors.net


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## Macs13

Sharkbait11 said:


> This could be an option, expensive but saves gas lol
> 
> Minn Kota Riptide Engine Mount EM 160 Saltwater Trolling Motor – TrollingMotors.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RT EM 160
> 
> 
> Minn Kota's EM 160 Saltwater Engine Mount motor stays hidden under the water! Attached to your outboard motor, it provides the convenience of a trolling motor without the hassle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.trollingmotors.net


Pretty neat idea. A buttload cheaper than my Garmin Force on the Red Rocket  

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