# English Setter Bloodlines



## fishless fisher (Jan 23, 2006)

I will be looking to get a English Setter in the next year or so, can anyone advise on bloodlines that stand out? Or kennels in the U.P?


----------



## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

That is an extraordinarily broad question.

Sometimes I think it is best narrowed down by non dog related questions
"How old are you?"
"How many days a field do you typically take?"
"Do you want a big dog or a small dog?"
"What kind of range do you hope for?"
"Fast dog or slow dog?"

There are many other questions to be asked as well.

In GENERAL, a mis match between owner and dog choice results in unsatisfactory experiences.

If you can discuss and narrow down your desires and experience, there will be a line and a kennel just perfect for where you are at, and where you are headed.


----------



## Merimac (Jan 17, 2006)

I would also consider getting a dog sooner than later. I like getting dogs at the beginning of a bird cycle. The cycle is starting.

I agree with the above post. 

Bryan wood has a nice litter on the ground in MI. I would guess a smaller framed dog that runs hard far and fast.


----------



## setterpoint (Feb 20, 2015)

i agree with the post above .sat down do a check list on what your looking for then you canzero in on those type of dogs thats right for you


----------



## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

I have come up through the dog universe all the way to horseback AA dogs.
What I can enjoy now, and what I was afraid of 20 years ago are a lifetime apart.

So, FWIW, I always ask people to truly think about how their sporting life works, and then work with someone to enhance that. Don't forget Momma in the process. She'll have as much impact on your enjoyment as anyone.

When I'm sitting in front of the fire sippin' whiskey, I want an affectionate dog near by. Some dogs can be a bit aloof. SO, right there's a non performance trait I value.

And don't forget longevity, and parental orthopedic traits. And, hearing. There are claims that 10% of setters will have hearing issues over their lifespan.


----------



## fishless fisher (Jan 23, 2006)

Age: 29
Times out a week: 2-3
Smaller dog preffered. 
Runs hard and methodical. 
Single father so affectionate, and great with kids.
One that won't range too far while hunting and stays fairly insight, but also one that I can trust to stay in the yard at home.

I grew up with my father having setters the last one was a field trial dog out of OH that was one of those horseback bloodlines. Let it outside a couple times to go to the bathroom in the evening and it would have to picked up 8-10 miles away the next day. The one before this runner, i was pretty young but remember the hearing loss. It's been 11-12 years since we have had dogs but I get out on foot solo as much as possible.


----------



## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

Gamekeeper said:


> That is an extraordinarily broad question.
> 
> Sometimes I think it is best narrowed down by non dog related questions
> "How old are you?"
> ...


And do you like burrs.lol


----------



## RCA DOGS (Sep 24, 2011)

When your ready for a pup I would watch the cover dog forum message board page. Lots of field trial breeding posted there. Setter breeders around Michigan Dun Roven is great. I have a dog from them. Houghton Lake area. Pioneer Kennels. Clare area. Michigan has a lot of cover dog people and events. Start watching for names you see over and over again. 
Shady hills
Dun Roven 
Quail trap
TarRah ( wrong spelling)
To name a few 

And as always Shadow Bo Oak


----------



## thelastlemming (Sep 11, 2009)

fishless fisher said:


> Age: 29
> Times out a week: 2-3
> Smaller dog preffered.
> Runs hard and methodical.
> ...


There are guys with a lot more expearence than what I have on this board but I wouldn't get any Setter out of trial lines and go in expecting it to stay in the yard unattended.
As a rule larger bodied dogs from non trial lines tend to hunt closer and with more of a methodical pattern that you said that you prefer.
I've had two setters one sired by Hifives and one by Dun Rovan both have been very affectionate and great pets but both are cat like quick and need to be monitored outdoors if not leashed.


----------



## Ray Adams (Feb 17, 2006)

fishless fisher said:


> I will be looking to get a English Setter in the next year or so, can anyone advise on bloodlines that stand out? Or kennels in the U.P?


Lots of thoughts on this. Will PM you my cell if you want to chat.


----------



## Setter (Mar 20, 2001)

Ray Adams said:


> Lots of thoughts on this. Will PM you my cell if you want to chat.


Check out Setters with Old Hemlock, Ryman, Pinecoble bloodlines for grouse and woodcock hunting dogs. They are bred for hunting and also make great companions.


----------



## zig (Aug 5, 2009)

Setter said:


> Check out Setters with Old Hemlock, Ryman, Pinecoble bloodlines for grouse and woodcock hunting dogs. They are bred for hunting and also make great companions.


For the OP, I totally agree with what Setter said here. However, as with any breed, good ones and bad ones. We had these lines for years, and all of ours were great. But I did come across a few dogs over the years that were just WAY too big and slow for me, and I like to hunt slow and close. I don't know what happened along the way, not a breeder and I'm really just learning about it since breeding my dog this year, and maybe my experience is unique, but these dogs were BIG and they would just peter out in no time. And, it's not like they were overweight, their bodies just weren't meant to go at a reasonable clip all day. So, just something to watch for.


----------



## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

He has plenty of time to make some calls and get out with some people.
He can see by the end of this season what he likes, and just buy there.

A young guy can adapt to a certain style of dog faster than an old guy can.
They just have more energy and more years ahead of them to do so.
So before you make a 10 year commitment, get out and see some dogs working.

Pick the varietal you are most impressed by.


----------



## Worm Dunker (Sep 11, 2000)

We go through this every year. I have a friend who finally admitted that my setter is the hardest, biggest running setter he's ever seen. I believe that's why he wouldn't hunt or take me banding woodcock. A dog has a short life span are a very big investment. Get a Garmin you may see it doesn't run as big in the woods as you think and you will never lose it with it on. Trust me my dog went the wrong side around a lake and was 9 miles out we jumped in the car and found him still on point(that's another reason I don't like woodcock). A lot of people suggest getting a wash out trial dog not all of those are washed out for running BIG.


----------



## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

Many wash out dogs are just slower than their year mates to develop.
If the ingredients are in the parents, the likelihood of a dud are quite low.
But, it may not be competitive within it's year class. Puppy, derby, etc.

Setters have good sized litters. You can't keep them all.

If I was 30 again, I'd buy a pup 1 generation removed from Shadow Oak Bo. The pedigree is recent, wide, health issues seem rare, decent size typically, and the horsepower is there as well.
They seem to be dogs to grow into as your field skills develop.
By 40, if you are devoted to the sport, you might not want the closer working dog anymore.

And there's always the issue of What kinds of dogs do your friends have? 
No one wants their dog always last to the find.


----------



## Merimac (Jan 17, 2006)

Just curious, why 1 generation removed from Bo? 

I think this was 2 or 3 years ago at the Florida. Me and Bo.

The purple stuff is a liquid band aid. He caught himself on a fence or something.


----------



## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

I don't require all age run, (or mega shooting dog run) in MI.
I hunt AA dogs in MT, but here, in tighter confines, it's kind of a waste.
My once removed Bo pup is uncannily similar to yours. Now that he's maturing a bit, his stride is efficient and long. Not choppy at all. His mother is a fine boned "graceful" bitch with an effortless long stride.


I've been on trips where the only dog with finds was the faster one, and have been that guy where the only dog finding birds was mine. I know which felt better.

But the Setter breed is wide and deep, so I always tell young guys, "Go see some. Hunt over the parents. Pick whichever impresses you the most", and then "Buy a Ferminator!"
You can't really go wrong in the choice if you like them.


----------



## Bobby (Dec 21, 2002)

thelastlemming said:


> *There are guys with a lot more expearence than what I have on this board* but I wouldn't get any Setter out of trial lines and go in expecting it to stay in the yard unattended.
> As a rule larger bodied dogs from non trial lines tend to hunt closer and with more of a methodical pattern that you said that you prefer.
> I've had two setters one sired by Hifives and one by Dun Rovan both have been very affectionate and great pets but both are cat like quick and need to be monitored outdoors if not leashed.


I bolded the key phrase. To think that trial lines will "run off" is inexperience. They might run big but that doesn't mean run off, whether you are hunting or just letting them out to pee. That all goes back to nurture (as opposed to nature) the running off while peeing. It is true that the bigger dogs, Ryman and such hunt closer but it's the breeding, not the size (although the size comes with the breeding. Baqck to trial dogs. I have a setter from AA and coverdog stock, 10 puppies in the litter. Mine runs the biggest of all 10 that I know of. He runs big hunting (but I'm ok with it, he is honest as the day is long), he runs big trialing. But I have two friends who have dogs from this litter and they both run at a distance that most hunters could live with (and should live with.) My point? Trial bred dogs aren't all big runners, they vary thru out all the litters. One thing to understand about trial dogs, they won't get bred if they aren't bird finders, if they aren't biddable and if they are not honest. The first thing you want in a bird dog, especially a dog that works out of sight is an honest dog. Some of that is breeding the balance is training or nurturing.



Merimac said:


> *Just curious, why 1 generation removed from Bo?*
> 
> I think this was 2 or 3 years ago at the Florida. Me and Bo.
> 
> ...


....because he bred to my Mickey, Nobody's Shadow. His young dog is a nice one, good looking boy.


----------



## brdhntr (Oct 1, 2003)

Bobby said:


> I bolded the key phrase. To think that trial lines will "run off" is inexperience. They might run big but that doesn't mean run off, whether you are hunting or just letting them out to pee.


As a foot hunter who never really has had more than a mild desire to ever trial a dog, and still hasn't, I really want to reiterate what Bobby posted. A big running dog doesn't have to mean running off whenever unattended, or out of control. That is entirely up to you, the owner/trainer. Not sure how old you are, but encroaching on 50, I am not as anxious to walk as many miles as I once was, especially when a young dog can cover the ground for me much more efficiently.

Edit: If I wanted a dog that was in range all the time, I wouldn't be looking for a pointing breed.


----------



## thelastlemming (Sep 11, 2009)

Bobby said:


> I bolded the key phrase. To think that trial lines will "run off" is inexperience. They might run big but that doesn't mean run off, whether you are hunting or just letting them out to pee. That all goes back to nurture (as opposed to nature) the running off while peeing. It is true that the bigger dogs, Ryman and such hunt closer but it's the breeding, not the size (although the size comes with the breeding. Baqck to trial dogs. I have a setter from AA and coverdog stock, 10 puppies in the litter. Mine runs the biggest of all 10 that I know of. He runs big hunting (but I'm ok with it, he is honest as the day is long), he runs big trialing. But I have two friends who have dogs from this litter and they both run at a distance that most hunters could live with (and should live with.) My point? Trial bred dogs aren't all big runners, they vary thru out all the litters. One thing to understand about trial dogs, they won't get bred if they aren't bird finders, if they aren't biddable and if they are not honest. The first thing you want in a bird dog, especially a dog that works out of sight is an honest dog. Some of that is breeding the balance is training or nurturing.
> 
> 
> ....because he bred to my Mickey, Nobody's Shadow. His young dog is a nice one, good looking boy.


It wasn't my intent to imply that trial dogs run off while hunting or that they don't hunt at suitable distances. Mine both hunt at the moderate range that I prefer, typically inside of 150 yards. My dog sired out of Dun Rovan (pictured in my avatar) has spent time kenneled with Vance Butler at Modaka and is stylish to watch and handles beautifully.
My point was and others may well differ, but for me living in a suburban neighborhood I would be hesitant to let any dog especially a dog with a high preydrive and athleticism outside with out supervision.


----------

