# Has anyone been checked for a minnow receipt???



## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

sea nympho said:


> *THE FEDS* are the ones *ALLOWING* the ocean-going vessels enetering the Great Lakes to dump their infected bilge/ballast water in our waterways causing all our problems!!:rant:


Lemme get this straight...

The FEDS make us jump through hoops about bait, ONLY to protect large companies' profits. 

They put a "Band-Aid" on the problem THEY created, but WE are asked to live with said band-aid(&the prob), and all its discomfort. 

*BUT*, we ARE NOT allowed to protect OUR great lakes (along with our allies with vested interests like Wisconsin, Ontario, etc...) against these ocean-liners by enacting more restrictive laws than the FEDs decide to impose(or a lack thereof).

I read recently that the pact( & sorry I forget its formal name) between all states and provinces which border the Great Lakes, was overruled by the FED gov't in our quest for more restrictive rules for these ships to follow when using our waterways, esp regarding ballast water dumping.

REALLY - I'm no expert::, and if I'm mistaken on some or all of these points feel free to "break it down":lol:! I'm no 'insider' and have no other sources of info other than what I read in magzines, on _here_:yikes:, and read & see in "the news", & such. I'd be _more than happy _to embrace an understanding of the situation that isn't as outrageous and bleak as the one I believe is happening right now.


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## gomer (Dec 30, 2000)

Sea nympho,

I see you are from cedar springs. Brenner's on west river drive has given me a minnow reciept every time i have bought from them. It has the lot # the minnows were from and what kind they are, on it.


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

gomer said:


> Sea nympho,
> 
> I see you are from cedar springs. Brenner's on west river drive has given me a minnow reciept every time i have bought from them. It has the lot # the minnows were from and what kind they are, on it.


Thanks for the heads up. I was just figuring I needed a new place to buy minnows:idea:. I'm certainly not gonna 'educate' a store owner who has not taken it upon himself to 1) educate himself and 2) educate/protect his customers(me!!). Ands that's 0 for 3!

Sometimes I buy bait _for cutbait_ from them in the spring/summer. I fish that stretch, plus or minus 4 miles:lol:.


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## jjc155 (Oct 16, 2005)

OK I see this happening, like Monday, when me and buddy and some others are going out.

We buy say 4 dozen minnows, one guy pays so he has a receipt. We get to were we are fishing and split the minnows into 4 buckets and then spread out our seperate ways to fish. Minnows are "legal" but only one of the four guys has a receipt. Any ideas? I think how the CO's day is going is going to be a factor. But I also see three guys potentially getting ticketed.

Any thoughts? Maybe I'll offer to buy the minnows this time:lol:

Thanks

J-


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## seips (Dec 20, 2005)

So Ken what does or reciept need to have on it? I didnt see it on the dnr site.


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## naterpM-37 (Jan 18, 2008)

I would ask to get a receipt on where you bought them. The father was fishing near Frankfort and talked to a guy who got a ticket for $50 because he didn't have a receipt. 
Nate


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## alex-v (Mar 24, 2005)

seips said:


> So Ken what does or reciept need to have on it? I didnt see it on the dnr site.


We covered that in detail several times on this one forum on the M-S message board. I am pretty sure that if you do a search using "receipt" as the key word and limit the search to the ice fishing forums you will get several hits. Also, for more information try the Warm Water Fishing forums.


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## alex-v (Mar 24, 2005)

sea nympho said:


> In fact, I've had to ask for a reciept, the store operator looking at me obviously clueless as to why 'this guy' is asking for a reciept. I didn't say a word to the stores, that's not MY job-they shouyld already know,


Every bait dealer that is concerned about the future of the fisheries in the state should be aware of the Federal regulations that have been put in place. Maybe just drop a hint to them to get a license as a bait dealer and then the DNR and the Feds will put them on the mailing lists.


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## Ninja (Feb 20, 2005)

seips said:


> So Ken what does or reciept need to have on it? I didnt see it on the dnr site.


 
Date
Species
Amount purchased
VHS Status (certified or not)
Waters where they may be used (VHS Positive, VHS Surveillance or VHS Free)


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## sjettx2 (Mar 20, 2007)

jjc155 said:


> OK I see this happening, like Monday, when me and buddy and some others are going out.
> 
> We buy say 4 dozen minnows, one guy pays so he has a receipt. We get to were we are fishing and split the minnows into 4 buckets and then spread out our seperate ways to fish. Minnows are "legal" but only one of the four guys has a receipt. Any ideas? I think how the CO's day is going is going to be a factor. But I also see three guys potentially getting ticketed.
> 
> ...


When we buy minnows to split up we ask for a receipt for each bait bucket we have. So far the sellers have done this without a problem.


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## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

Dialtone said:


> You know, I was going to bring this up a few weeks ago but didn't want to get into it. But twice this year when I purchased minnows and asked for a receipt I was laughed at!


I bought minnows twice since the order and neither place gave me a recipt and I forgot to ask. Same with a buddy of mine.



RC2 said:


> When I purchased minnows at KD, they automaticly gave me a receipt and made sure I was informed.


I thought this was supposed to be the way it worked. 
I am only blaming myself for being noncompliant mind you, NOT the bait shop. But if it is a requirement to have one it seems they would offer it up.
Maybe they got less braincells than me :chillin:!


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## blittle913 (Feb 21, 2007)

Do we need a receipt for any type of minnow and for any body of water? Sorry im not current on this law and sounds like maybe my bait shop isnt either as i have never been asked or offered a receipt. Some clarification would be greatly appreciated! Thanks guys!


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## Ninja (Feb 20, 2005)

blittle913 said:


> Do we need a receipt for any type of minnow and for any body of water? Sorry im not current on this law and sounds like maybe my bait shop isnt either as i have never been asked or offered a receipt. Some clarification would be greatly appreciated! Thanks guys!


 
You need a receipt on ANY body of water in Michigan, other than a truly private (owned by one individual) lake/pond.

Here is the Prohibited Species List:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/prohibited-species-list_203636_7.pdf


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## theeyes (Mar 20, 2004)

I give receipts for the minnows on the list. No one has been checked in our area and there has been no one that has come into our shop to check on us.
There is so much snow on the lakes right now, that it makes it tough to get around. No one has even seen a CO, their busy getting the snowmobilers, the easy money.


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## jjc155 (Oct 16, 2005)

sjettx2 said:


> When we buy minnows to split up we ask for a receipt for each bait bucket we have. So far the sellers have done this without a problem.


Copy. makes sense did know if anyone had run across this yet.

Thanks
J-


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## Tom 26133 (Feb 28, 2007)

I've been checked 2 times 1 time on silver lake and once on hamlin lake.


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

alex-v said:


> Every bait dealer that is concerned about the future of the fisheries in the state should be aware of the Federal regulations that have been put in place. Maybe just drop a hint to them to get a license as a bait dealer and then the DNR and the Feds will put them on the mailing lists.


Point taken.

But still, how could a *licenced* dealer not himself be fully informed by the FEDs or MDNR?

Seems to be a gaping hole in the "need-to-know" dept.


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## MIfishinGuy (Feb 17, 2005)

that little bait shop on silver lake on walton gives me a reciept, just as i was goin to ask for it, he says and here i need to fill this out. it felt good i didnt have to ask.


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## Ninja (Feb 20, 2005)

sea nympho said:


> Point taken.
> 
> But still, how could a *licenced* dealer not himself be fully informed by the FEDs or MDNR?
> 
> Seems to be a gaping hole in the "need-to-know" dept.


 
They know.....they are choosing not to comply.

2 bait shops in my area shut down already for non-compliance.


Theeyes, they may have checked you, just not in the way you think.


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## wolverines (Jan 29, 2007)

I don't know if it's been said yet, but I heard you need a receipt for spawn as well.


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## Ninja (Feb 20, 2005)

wolverines said:


> I don't know if it's been said yet, but I heard you need a receipt for spawn as well.


 
Correct....roe is included and it must be used only on a hook, no chumming.


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## north-bound (Nov 20, 2007)

from what i was told by a guy in the fisheries dept. that one of the reasons for the rec. is because some dealers are not getting there minnows tested before they get to the distributors. why i am not sure? you would think it would be manditory.


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## Ninja (Feb 20, 2005)

north-bound said:


> from what i was told by a guy in the fisheries dept. that one of the reasons for the rec. is because some dealers are not getting there minnows tested before they get to the distributors. why i am not sure? you would think it would be manditory.


 
That's not true.....the bait does NOT have to be tested or certfied....distributors and wholesalers can sell uncertified/untested miinows, but these minnows can only be used in VHS Positive areas.


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## north-bound (Nov 20, 2007)

why let them sell the minnows here then? make them test them and if not then don't let them sell them here. instead they let them sell the minnows here and if we forget the rec. we pay a fine? like i said i was told this i do not know the guy i called the dnr office in bay city about the knew law and thats what they told me, but in the same token he also told me there was no set fine on not having one but reading another post about a guy getting a $50 fine just kinda changed that around. the whole thing is kind of funky.


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## Dking(MI) (Feb 21, 2007)

OK, well what do you do if you keep your minnows for the next time you go fishing? Write yourself a receipt??

I mean come on, If you have a livewell at home, and take those minnows fishing, are you supposed to take the receipt from like 3 weeks ago when you bought them??

What a joke.


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## Ninja (Feb 20, 2005)

Dking(MI) said:


> OK, well what do you do if you keep your minnows for the next time you go fishing? Write yourself a receipt??
> 
> I mean come on, If you have a livewell at home, and take those minnows fishing, are you supposed to take the receipt from like 3 weeks ago when you bought them??
> 
> What a joke.


Your supposed to dispose of them.
You might want to buy just enough that will get used in a week.....they are handing out tickets.


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## jbird68 (Dec 8, 2005)

couldn't they just make whom ever is selling the minnows place a sticker with the needed information on the container?


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## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

Ninja said:


> ....they are handing out tickets.


That's kind of why I want some input on people's experience around LSC. To make another point, I was in Selfridge Sport and Tackle a couple weeks back and there was a DNR officer there talking to the woman inside. I bought a dozen minnows from the woman, paid, and grabbed my bucket and her and the DNR officer continued their conversation. Nothing ever mentioned of a receipt by the woman or DNR officer. Wouldn't it have been prudent of the officer to take the time to inform both me and the woman of the new rules regarding VHS instead of letting me go on my merry way oblivious to the fact I needed a receipt?

My contention to the whole getting a ticket thing is how can they give you a ticket for information that wasn't mass distributed or widely known? I walk into bait stores and there are no posters or information alerting you to the fact. It was never front page news. The fishing guide doesn't state it because the state went to a 2 yr system on guides. If it was so important, they have my contact information from my driver's license so why shouldn't I get something in the mail alerting me to the fact.

Had I not visited this site I would have never known of the new rules regarding VHS and if it wasn't for Ninja's post awhile back I wouldn't know what the correct info needed on the receipt is. So if I was computer illiterate, like much of my family and many of my outdoor loving friends, I'd never know about the rules and be subject to a fine all for something not included in the fishing guide.

I think I'll pose my question in the LSC forum and see if I get any different responses.


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## Ninja (Feb 20, 2005)

jbird68 said:


> couldn't they just make whom ever is selling the minnows place a sticker with the needed information on the container?


 
The are making the retailers give out receipts with the required info......but a lot of retailers are not doing it.


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## Ninja (Feb 20, 2005)

Radar420 said:


> That's kind of why I want some input on people's experience around LSC. To make another point, I was in Selfridge Sport and Tackle a couple weeks back and there was a DNR officer there talking to the woman inside. I bought a dozen minnows from the woman, paid, and grabbed my bucket and her and the DNR officer continued their conversation. Nothing ever mentioned of a receipt by the woman or DNR officer. Wouldn't it have been prudent of the officer to take the time to inform both me and the woman of the new rules regarding VHS instead of letting me go on my merry way oblivious to the fact I needed a receipt?
> 
> My contention to the whole getting a ticket thing is how can they give you a ticket for information that wasn't mass distributed or widely known? I walk into bait stores and there are no posters or information alerting you to the fact. It was never front page news. The fishing guide doesn't state it because the state went to a 2 yr system on guides. If it was so important, they have my contact information from my driver's license so why shouldn't I get something in the mail alerting me to the fact.
> 
> ...


 
Radar,
I agree with you, and the DNR is being very lenient right now.
The 2 instances of tickets being issued were local fisherman in my area who had been checked 2 days in a row.
They were informed and warned on day 1, and were ticketed on day 2. I have not seen the tickets, but heard the story from one of the fisherman.

We have had also had 2 baitshops in the area shut down due to non-compliance with the reg's.


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

It's a messed-up, half-azzed, unorganized, unprofessional, unpractical system of "pass-the-buck", with no one taking the initiative to inform the public in a fair & effective manner - which might actually lead to the implemented measure having _at least_ some of the desired impact.

Ninja - The CO's use of discretion in dispensing tickets, as you outlined, is encouraging & hopefully reflects their understanding of the clusterf.


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## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

Ninja said:


> Radar,
> I agree with you, and the DNR is being very lenient right now.
> The 2 instances of tickets being issued were local fisherman in my area who had been checked 2 days in a row.
> They were informed and warned on day 1, and were ticketed on day 2. I have not seen the tickets, but heard the story from one of the fisherman.
> ...


Ninja-

I respect the way you run your shop I can see next year giving out tickets since the new guide book will then be in effect and I believe I saw Walleye Mike post somewhere that the new guidebook has 2-3 pages regarding VHS, so then ignorance is no excuse as you get the guide book when you purchase a license. It's just from my end, there doesn't seem to be a lot of education coming from the people whose business relies on the people who purchase bait and I find that pretty reprehensible. It's why I also posted this in the LSC forum as maybe there is some sort of backdoor deal between the DNR and the bait stores over there that someone may be able to clue me in on.


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## north-bound (Nov 20, 2007)

my dad said the cheboygan china-mart has a notice posted in the sporting goods about the knew law. what gets me though they don't sell minnows or spawn atleast the last time i knew. when some of the bait shops have a hard time either giving you one and or giving you the right one.. figures..oh well..good luck to all that gets out fishing this weekend and don't forget your receipt.


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## alex-v (Mar 24, 2005)

> ...with no one taking the initiative to inform the public in a fair & effective manner -


To be perfectly honest it is up to us as citizens to be responsible for know what is happening within our government.

The situation of needing a receipt started to become public knowledge about a year ago as the results of the fish die-offs across the Great Lakes was published. When these studies were released it was to the press and the press reported it in newspapers and, yes, on TV news.

Many newspaper articles were written on the Federal governments requirements last summer. These articles told us what was going to be happening and that there would be requirements like the testing for VHS in the minnows and that there would be receipts that needed to be kept. Anyone else remember the articles that told us that the cost of minnows could go up??

What is the Federal government supposed to do? The last thing I want to see them do is come knocking on my door with a document telling me all about VHS and what I am supposed to do with my minnows. Can you imagine if the DNR were to mail a letter to everyone who purchased a fishing license?? We would be reading msg after msg about how "stupid that is" or about "how much it cost".


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## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

alex-v said:


> To be perfectly honest it is up to us as citizens to be responsible for know what is happening within our government.


Which is why I read the fishing guide every year when I get my license. Since they went to a 2 yr system on guides there was no information on VHS available for the 06-08 fishing guide.



> The situation of needing a receipt started to become public knowledge about a year ago as the results of the fish die-offs across the Great Lakes was published. When these studies were released it was to the press and the press reported it in newspapers and, yes, on TV news.


I read the newspaper everyday and my parents read and watch the news everyday. While there were reports on VHS I can't think of a single time I read that "fishermen are now going to need to ask for a receipt when they purchase minnows stating . . ." I don't remember ever reading that in a Eric Sharp article. Many of my non-computer using friends and family had never heard of needing a receipt either.



> What is the Federal government supposed to do? Can you imagine if the DNR were to mail a letter to everyone who purchased a fishing license?? We would be reading msg after msg about how "stupid that is" or about "how much it cost"


.

Well I guess the Federal Gov't could provide posters/fliers that they could give to bait shops to place right on or behind the counter for everyone to read - something along the lines of ATTENTION ANGLERS: New Rules in effect regarding bait purchases and then they could just give me my receipt instead of having to play a little game.


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## alex-v (Mar 24, 2005)

Radar420 said:


> Which is why I read the fishing guide every year when I get my license. Since they went to a 2 yr system on guides there was no information on VHS available for the 06-08 fishing guide.


It is a guide. The laws change all the time. When you are reading the guide book it is old news and the intent is to give the fisherman or the hunter the basics.



Radar420 said:


> I read the newspaper everyday and my parents read and watch the news everyday. While there were reports on VHS I can't think of a single time I read that "fishermen are now going to need to ask for a receipt when they purchase minnows stating . . ." I don't remember ever reading that in a Eric Sharp article. Many of my non-computer using friends and family had never heard of needing a receipt either.


It was there in Eric Sharp articles and columns. I also noticed it in other newspapers. As for the internet as a source of news that has been discussed before.



Radar420 said:


> Well I guess the Federal Gov't could provide posters/fliers that they could give to bait shops to place right on or behind the counter for everyone to read - ....


Yep, the DNR did send them. I saw them at bait shops and at any event where the DNR set up a booth.

Here is a link or two where a newspaper or new source was listed. The links are from this message board:
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189286&highlight=receipt

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=191146&highlight=receipt

I think that if we went back even further than one year on this msg board we would find more links to newspaper articles. Or, if we searched more than just the Warm Water Fishing forums.

To be honest about it, I have forgotten to take the receipt with me on several occasions over the past 6 months. None the less, the information is out there.


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## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

alex-v said:


> Yep, the DNR did send them. I saw them at bait shops and at any event where the DNR set up a booth.


Alex maybe you know more about the laws because of your affiliation with LSCWA but I can assure you that at Selfridge or Blue Water I have never seen any info regarding VHS - maybe it's because I only ice fish, I don't know - but too many people I know act like they've never heard of this. And I wouldn't doubt that anywhere the DNR sets up a booth they would have info but I haven't been anywhere where the DNR would have a booth to begin with.

As for the links you posted the first one states that: "Bait shops will be required to give anglers a receipt telling where bait can be used and whether it is certified." Again, I've never been offered a receipt and the DNR officer at Selfridge made no attempt to inform the supplier that she was required to do so.

The second link states: "For bait species on the Prohibited Species List, retail bait shops are asked to start informing anglers whether the bait is certified or uncertified. If the bait is known to be uncertified and the Fish Disease
Management Area where it was collected is known, bait shops are asked
to inform anglers on where it can be used." Again, I have never been provided info regarding VHS other than through this message board.

I learned long ago not to trust internet sources for credible info which is why I asked for resources that can be found in print. Your links imply that the burden is on the bait store owner, yet the DNR flier implies that burden is on the purchaser. So which is it? (rhetorical question)

The real question is have you been checked???


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## WALLEYE MIKE (Jan 7, 2001)

Radar, thanks for reading my post about the new booklet.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the way I understand it, any minnows (VHS infected or certified not infected) can be used in a VHS infected lake (such as LSC) without a reciept. Those caught in LSC can be used in LSC.

But a receipt verifying VHS free must be used (mostly inland lakes) in VHS free lakes.

You cannot use minnows caught in VHS infected lakes and transport and use them in non VHS lakes. (Self caught)


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

Alex - I understand your point, and I think nobody's expecting miracles from the gov. Yes I agree, "ignorance of the law in no excuse"... That's why there are so many questions on here, folks are trying to find out. I've known of the law change from the beginning b/c I reguarly check the MDNR wesite. BUT STILL I left that site believing a receipt with date was OK, I didn't know it needed to contain info regarding the minnows. _ But if the retailer would have informed me (aka-watched by back) the sytem would have still worked._ The only way I see this working is if all bait retailers ensure their patrons understand and are compliant. This is good business, and should be done solely out of concern for the customer. Nonetheless, it is the govt's responsibility to ensure the retailers are compliant b/c they created the mandate (& often the problem in the first place!:yikes::lol. If many retailers are failing to comply, or if folks seem to be unusually misinformed and/or are misunderstanding or misinterpreting the law, that is an alarm for a breakdown in the system, and leniency should be granted in obvious cases of confusion until the breakdown is remedied.


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## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

WALLEYE MIKE said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the way I understand it, any minnows (VHS infected or certified not infected) can be used in a VHS infected lake (such as LSC) without a reciept. Those caught in LSC can be used in LSC.
> 
> But a receipt verifying VHS free must be used (mostly inland lakes) in VHS free lakes.
> 
> You cannot use minnows caught in VHS infected lakes and transport and use them in non VHS lakes. (Self caught)


Logically, what you posted should be true but the only info in the DNR flier is regarding general statewide rules and says "A retail customer shall retain and show upon request the receipt for purchases of Baitfish or Roe from a State-licensed Baitfish retail operation. A receipt shall be valid for seven days from the date of sale." It doesn't make a distinction for VHS positive management areas.

On a body of water like LSC where the virus is present, I can't see the purpose of checking for a receipt since you can use either infected or non-infected bait.


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