# Why can Wisconsin do this but not Michigan?



## Chez29 (May 11, 2008)

I spend a fair amount of time on Wisconsin forums and am always impressed by the amount of communication that takes place between their DNR and various groups and how much of that gets forwarded on to the general public thru these sites. 
The contact info for their top biologists is readily available, one doesnt have to dig thru the state website to find this info. Trying to find up to date contact info for Michigan CWAC members is hard to do and even then after sending emails I have never gotten a response or even know if the email is received. Often these members dont have any contact info and it is not clear which ones represent what areas. 
The state could definately do a better job communicating with groups and those groups could do a better job spreading the word to the general public. Here is an example of what Wisconsin and their groups are doing in regards to proposed zone changes there, then compare the information provided and generated by that questionairre with what Michigan has done and its pathetic. 

http://survey.constantcontact.com/survey/a07e3ciml26gjomvrsx/a016pgk2xh1pz/questions


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

michigans website sucks. DNR should be a whole seperate (independent) site instead of lumped into the heap of crap .gov site.

another thing on my wish list is an annual audit printed, published and sent each year to people who bought licenses.

every year when i buy my Nodak license i spend the 10$ fee to receive a 8x year subscription to their Nodak outdoors magazine. its like a 20 page magazine that covers state issues with wildlife. Every summer they print their budget....their surplus or debt and is very open to their sportsman on where the money is being spent. Its the transparency of information that gives their hunters something to trust.

michigan lacks this.


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## duckjunky (Mar 28, 2007)




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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> michigans website sucks. DNR should be a whole seperate (independent) site instead of lumped into the heap of crap .gov site....


Not disagreeing, but current state policy is that all agencies have to follow the same format. Trust me when I say most if not all hate it. Maybe our new "CEO" will change that too? He seems to want to change most everything, so write your emails folks :evilsmile


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## Ieatantlers (Oct 7, 2008)

For the same reason we have full time legislators and still can't balance a budget on time- while states like North Dakota can balance a budget in a month with part-timers. Our state gov't sucks all around!


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## Blacklab77 (Jun 21, 2006)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> another thing on my wish list is an annual audit printed, published and sent each year to people who bought licenses.


 
Thats funny Kid? Michigan didn't even mail tax booklets this year cause it was more costs effective not too. I think the above idea would be great, but with the current budget state were in here in Michigan, its just a pipe dream!

Blacklab


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## Branta (Feb 6, 2002)

Thanks for posting this - excellent example.

Maybe it can't be done currently with the state site, but maybe there's a portal this can be done with through MDHA?

I particularly like the fact that this illustrates we don't live in a vacuum here in michigan. Joe Duck hunter living in Stevens Pt., WI seems to have that same "_I want to shoot those ducks I see rafting after season closes_" desire as we do! 

also shows how simple it can be to execute and digestible for joe hunter to accept/understand. The 11 hwy, cutting across the state. simple.

doesn't look like they lost anything; central and south still open on same day (so inland south guy doesn't feel jipped), but they could potentially expand their hunting opportunities for the big water boys? and even further into december than we were talking here?!

Well played!!


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## BFG (Mar 4, 2005)

Opening day shooting starts at 9:00 am. How would ya'll like that? LOL

They decimated their deer population with the "earn a buck" program that required people to shoot a doe before they could shoot a buck. 

They have a wolf problem in that state that has gone un-checked until recently when a handful of kill permits were issued. As I recall, every permit issued tagged out the first morning of the first day. 

Their fisheries division cannot agree on how many salmon are taken each year. 

The perch limit is 5 per day in Lake Michigan waters. 

They've also killed every deer in an entire county due to CWD


They might have a great website...but they are far from perfect. Some of my best friends in the world live in 'Sconsin...and I go there as much as I can...but ask ANY of them about their DNR and they'll give ya' an earful...


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## T.J. (Mar 1, 2009)

they know how to manege there cat and bear population tho.


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## Branta (Feb 6, 2002)

Hey Flatlander (BFG), 

You have your own problems down there! 


not saying I love all things WDNR; not really fond of some of the other waterfowl related practices, but on paper... I like this three zone duck proposal!


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## lewy149 (Apr 19, 2007)

Good news is we r destroying our deer heard with all the do permits.. and will be luck enough to follow suit with the wolves.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

the flyover aerial count done over shiawassee national refuge and state game area this winter revealed some scary numbers. I think target habitat numbers is around 800 deer combined and they observed something like 176 state side and 250 federal side....thats a huge discrepancy.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> the flyover aerial count done over shiawassee national refuge and state game area this winter revealed some scary numbers. I think target habitat numbers is around 800 deer combined and they observed something like 176 state side and 250 federal side....thats a huge discrepancy.


Correction Dan, Vic announced this at our last meeting, and I don't recall exactly, but it was between 800-900 were counted, which was over the target just a tad.


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> michigans website sucks. DNR should be a whole seperate (independent) site instead of lumped into the heap of crap .gov site.
> 
> another thing on my wish list is an annual audit printed, published and sent each year to people who bought licenses.
> 
> ...


I could not agree more. If you want to be trusted, you must be fair and transparent.


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## lewy149 (Apr 19, 2007)

The dnr giving a count on the deer heard is a joke. Dnr before deer season said it would a great year heard us up yadda yadda yadda. Then itwas a slow opener cause it was to warm opening day. Haha I had a hard time stopping the truck cause the roads were iced over with like 2 inches of snow. We went up the dead stream with the boat this year. Our camp had a great year but I can't believe how many camps didn't see a deer. Around my folks house you couldn't hardly drive down our road or bard without seeing deer. I think the fall driving to work I saw 5. It is in trouble. Plus I think people r gonna quit hunting with another year like this and keep hosing all our other natural resources and there will be no need for the dnr. Like when we were talking to a biologist at Backus creek flooding and he says" when we gad millet in here u couldnt step out there without hitting a duck." I was like why did we quit?. He says " we don't need it plenty if ducks out there." It was before season and was not satisfactory for duck numbers. Or the bakale tract in allendale where they r pumping water out in the river and its all dried up except the creek and a tiny flooding. I hear back when it was private they had nesting sprigs, snows and just a unbelievable amount of fowl. Quit pumping water outs there and it would be awesome. Now the things so dried up its a buffet for yotes and *****. That wouldn't even cost money. I saw it flooded up in the spring one time. Flooded timber,swamp, Marsh. Man was it sweet and just packed with fowl. I saw probably 5k just in a small piece of flooded timber. But if we flooded it the deer hunters wouldn't have it to hunt... like there isn't enough public woods. Sorry for the rant.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

just ducky said:


> Correction Dan, Vic announced this at our last meeting, and I don't recall exactly, but it was between 800-900 were counted, which was over the target just a tad.


so brian picalo's numbers were wrong in january? he gave numbers in january of the count? febuary they changed the numbers or they did a recount?


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

lewy149 said:


> The dnr giving a count on the deer heard is a joke. Dnr before deer season said it would a great year heard us up yadda yadda yadda. Then itwas a slow opener cause it was to warm opening day. Haha I had a hard time stopping the truck cause the roads were iced over with like 2 inches of snow. We went up the dead stream with the boat this year. Our camp had a great year but I can't believe how many camps didn't see a deer. Around my folks house you couldn't hardly drive down our road or bard without seeing deer. I think the fall driving to work I saw 5. It is in trouble. Plus I think people r gonna quit hunting with another year like this and keep hosing all our other natural resources and there will be no need for the dnr. Like when we were talking to a biologist at Backus creek flooding and he says" when we gad millet in here u couldnt step out there without hitting a duck." I was like why did we quit?. He says " we don't need it plenty if ducks out there." It was before season and was not satisfactory for duck numbers. Or the bakale tract in allendale where they r pumping water out in the river and its all dried up except the creek and a tiny flooding. I hear back when it was private they had nesting sprigs, snows and just a unbelievable amount of fowl. Quit pumping water outs there and it would be awesome. Now the things so dried up its a buffet for yotes and *****. That wouldn't even cost money. I saw it flooded up in the spring one time. Flooded timber,swamp, Marsh. Man was it sweet and just packed with fowl. I saw probably 5k just in a small piece of flooded timber. But if we flooded it the deer hunters wouldn't have it to hunt... like there isn't enough public woods. Sorry for the rant.


Okay, before someone else really jumps you for all the complaining, I'm going to give you some friendly advice in an attempt to turn a very negative post into a positive one. It's really easy to complain, and say the DNR did this, or didn't do that. And no one's going to argue that you are wrong in saying habitat in some places is not as good as it once was. I see in your profile you're 22, and with all due respect, you don't have enough time on this earth to have solid perspective on things. I often hear people talk about "the good old days", and I often counter that with "I think THESE ARE the good old days". I'll give you several examples...in the 50's, 60's and even into the 70's we had pheasants...lot's of 'em. I grew up then, and lived for opening day on October 20th. The schools closed down, and it was like Christmas in the fall. Today...not the case, and there are lots of reasons for that which we could argue about all day. But on the positive side we now have turkeys, which in the 50's, 60's and 70's, we had very few of if any. In the 60's and 70's we were lucky to see a few deer in my part of Michigan (mid-Michigan - southern lower penninsula). Today I hardly go a day without seeing one or more. Heck my 85 year old dad grew up here, and said if they saw a deer TRACK it was the talk of the town. In the 50's and 60's we had very few archery deer hunters, vs. today when we have lots. Another example...we used to have lots of perch and panfish on Saginaw Bay, and now it's walleye that are extremely plentiful. Bottom line is we are in a different age today than 20, 30 or 40 years ago, and things have changed...no question. But instead of looking only at the bad things, there are an awful lot of good things happening here in Michigan. You just have to take the time to step back and realize that. it's all about change, and accepting it. 

Now to your examples of Backus Creek flooding and others (basically habitat complaints), in the 50's, 60's and 70's there was lots of funding for the DNR, and for doing habitat projects. Sorry to say that those days are long gone. Nowadays, in order to improve habitat, it is almost a necessity for volunteers to help the DNR get things done. In fact, there is legislation introduced right now to make it easier for the DNR to allow volunteer labor on public lands of all types. Why? Because they realize that volunteers are critical to maintaining, or improving, what we have here. The days of relying on the government to do it for us are long gone, and likely not returning. So my positive spin on that complaint is for you to get actively involved in one or more conservation organizations that do habitat work, or do fund-raising in order to help with habitat or other work. Make things better by getting involved yourself. There are many organizations out there, and many directly related to waterfowl...MDHA, DU, Delta, and a host of others. In the Backus Creek example, maybe a local organization would be able to go in and plant millet or other food, or do some habitat work? And maybe you could be part of it? I'm part of several such organizations in my area, and we've done tons of habitat work on state lands, and in some cases planted things like millet, etc. We also do a lot of physical labor and habitat work that the DNR cannot get to due to lack of money and manpower. 

So take my response as I intended it...POSITIVE. Not saying you don't have a right to complain. But just channel your energy into something positive as I suggested. Then when your're my age, you can give a 22 year old the same advice.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> so brian picalo's numbers were wrong in january? he gave numbers in january of the count? febuary they changed the numbers or they did a recount?


I believe Vic said he and Glenn were part of a recent fly-over just before our February meeting, which is when they made this count.


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## lewy149 (Apr 19, 2007)

U understand where you are coming from in post. That property has a giant du sign on it. It was donated to the state and du?? Either way no money no effort and nothing done. I've called around about. Some people can't build in the property cause it is a wetland and they r actively draining. As far as not being old enough to have my own perspective, well I'm 25 not 22 but that's makes no difference. I have a lot better idea and head on my shoulders than u know. Grew up with great parents. Had a lot and went through hardship when the auto plant laid dad off who was pretty much sole provider. I own 2 homes with no real help frpm anyone my wonderful new wifee. We own 3 cars and 2 boats and half all the things one could want. So to lump me in with most people my age is a gross oversight. Spent most of my life in the great outdoors. As far as volunteering, well I'm living at work so I can pay my house off in 3 years so if the economy keeps going all to hell it won't matter I can be a greater. At walley word so I can pay for shells gas and taxes. I'd love to get out and help, just working 84 hours a week on a swing shift leaves time for sleep and the wife. I love getting new people involved and take cousins who r old enough now. Funny how great being outside is. The wife likes going but always ask how can u sit here all day withoit any ducks fish deer or anything going on. I just love being out in God's country. So I respect your opinion ducky, but have to disagree a little. And hopefully here in a few years I can start helping more than just tax dollars and licences.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

lewy149 said:


> U understand where you are coming from in post. That property has a giant du sign on it. It was donated to the state and du?? Either way no money no effort and nothing done. I've called around about. Some people can't build in the property cause it is a wetland and they r actively draining. As far as not being old enough to have my own perspective, well I'm 25 not 22 but that's makes no difference. I have a lot better idea and head on my shoulders than u know. Grew up with great parents. Had a lot and went through hardship when the auto plant laid dad off who was pretty much sole provider. I own 2 homes with no real help frpm anyone my wonderful new wifee. We own 3 cars and 2 boats and half all the things one could want. So to lump me in with most people my age is a gross oversight. Spent most of my life in the great outdoors. As far as volunteering, well I'm living at work so I can pay my house off in 3 years so if the economy keeps going all to hell it won't matter I can be a greater. At walley word so I can pay for shells gas and taxes. I'd love to get out and help, just working 84 hours a week on a swing shift leaves time for sleep and the wife. I love getting new people involved and take cousins who r old enough now. Funny how great being outside is. The wife likes going but always ask how can u sit here all day withoit any ducks fish deer or anything going on. I just love being out in God's country. So I respect your opinion ducky, but have to disagree a little. And hopefully here in a few years I can start helping more than just tax dollars and licences.


Good note Lewy, and no offense intended about the age thing. You sound like a great outdoorsman, and your heart is in the right place. Hopefully someday you will have the time and resources to get active, because frankly you and your peers are the future for our resources, and if you don't become actively involved, I'm not sure how much we'll have left in 20-30 years. Good deal.


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