# Gun law QUESTION!



## jcp7857 (Mar 22, 2009)

My friend wants a sidearm just in case for bear season. I have a 45 I told him he could use, is this legal for him to have with him hunting on private property?


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## tallbear (May 18, 2005)

jcp7857 said:


> My friend wants a sidearm just in case for bear season. I have a 45 I told him he could use, is this legal for him to have with him hunting on private property?


 
The "loaning" of a handgun is legal if the person you are loaning it to has a valid Michigan CPL. If he doesn't have a CPL, he can not have in his position a handgun belonging to someone else.


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## jcp7857 (Mar 22, 2009)

Thanks


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## sullyxlh (Oct 28, 2004)

jcp7857 said:


> My friend wants a sidearm just in case for bear season. I have a 45 I told him he could use, is this legal for him to have with him hunting on private property?


Remind your friend that they are Black bears and NOT Grizzlies.........


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## kshafer (Jul 5, 2009)

sullyxlh said:


> Remind your friend that they are Black bears and NOT Grizzlies.........


FWIW, when a .45 ACP hits a bear, well, it's kinda like a fly hitting a windshield. I would choose a different caliber handgun. .45 autos utilize a heavy slow projectile (230GR @ 850FPS OR THE 185'S @ JUST OVER 1,000) which lacks penetration on the densely muscled bear.

Also, you should ask this in the Law forum so the Conservation Officers moderating could elaborate if need be.


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## tallbear (May 18, 2005)

kshafer said:


> FWIW, when a .45 ACP hits a bear, well, it's kinda like a fly hitting a windshield. I would choose a different caliber handgun. .45 autos utilize a heavy slow projectile (230GR @ 850FPS OR THE 185'S @ JUST OVER 1,000) which lacks penetration on the densely muscled bear.
> 
> Also, you should ask this in the Law forum so the Conservation Officers moderating could elaborate if need be.


As a "hunting handgun" I would agree with a different caliber.

As a "carry in bear counrty" the 45 ACP is fine. If it would put down a 200# man, it will put down a 200# bear.


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## kshafer (Jul 5, 2009)

tallbear said:


> As a "hunting handgun" I would agree with a different caliber.
> 
> As a "carry in bear counrty" the 45 ACP is fine. If it would put down a 200# man, it will put down a 200# bear.


Absolutely not true at all. 

Trying to compare a human body and a bear is like comparing apples and oranges. A bears bone and muscle structure is unequivocally more dense than a humans. This causes inferior cartridges to fail completely on the penetration factor. The .45 ACP works well on people b/c of the light skin and muscle structure. Also, the amount of shock it takes it incapacitate a human vs. a bear isn't even comparable.

I have seen on several occasions, where a sub effective calibers (.45 ACP, .40 S&W) were used on a bear with little or no penetration. The projectiles were stopped on the entrance side on ribs, shoulders,breastbone, etc.


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

kshafer said:


> Absolutely not true at all.
> 
> Been there, done that, and it is true.


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## kshafer (Jul 5, 2009)

GIDEON said:


> kshafer said:
> 
> 
> > Absolutely not true at all.
> ...


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

I'd agree some cartridges are not for animals, 9mm, 40 S & W, 45 ACP, etc. Much better ones in revolvers out there. Penetration is many times a factor of the bullets (or projectiles) design vs the cartridge or velocity. I've seen large bore handguns with hardcast do incredible amounts of damage while "only" going several hundred feet per second. Probably a factor of the hardcast and large meplat but still, it's the bullet. If the intent is to use a handgun on an animal, get a revolver and I'd say at least a 41 mag.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

Tallbear is right about the .45 acp being adequate as a defense caliber on black bear at very close range like in a self defense situation. (been there, done that). Although, it depends on the skill of the individual using it. Do not expect to drop a black bear in its track with a body shot with even the largest caliber handguns. You can sever the spine and still be in some serious trouble.


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## JWICKLUND (Feb 13, 2005)

This isn't a disussion on stopping power of certain bullets. The question was pertaining to loaning of handguns. Stay on track here.


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