# fistfights on the rogue



## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

So, what's the solution? Walking away? 

It seems that would cause more of a problem with giving the weenies positive reinforcement for their actions. Do you praise your dog when he pee's on the couch 

Some guys just figure it is there right to do whatever they want. Thankfully they usually fish only in the fall and spring.

Friday some guys were BSing below me and this quote from one of them stuck in my mind, "Why is he going to get her pregnant if he doesn't love her?". 

Once I get all my eggs I'm done with steelhead for the year.


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## tommy-n (Jan 9, 2004)

Before this goes any futher let me clarify, I don't think I own the river, I just think you should treat other people as you wanted to be treated. I left my house at 3:00 am that morning so I could get a spot were I could fish together with my kids. Someone comes down there at 9:15 and does not say nothing and tries to take it over. I drove 80 some miles to get there and left at that time to get a decent spot to fish, there was only room for 3 guys max. on that side of the river. I have been steelhead fishing for 27 years and these things happen more and more all the time, that may very well be the last time I ever fish that river.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Here is my tried and true technique that never fails and was developed by braving the salmon run for years down around Branch where fishing the outside of bends seems to be acceptable to some.

I just say in a friendly voice: Hey what ya doin.
Response: Fishin.

Why would you fish the outside of the bend?
Response: We can't catch them from that side.

Well, it just seems to me it is not right to push in on me. 
Response: Well it's a public river.

Well, it may be but you know it is not right and I would not do it to you.

Following up to any other rebuttals with by repeating the above line.

I'm telling you it works like gold. Seems to really guilt guys into doing the right thing.


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

I agree with TSS that when you can do things positive you should. I have explained to my fishing partner the process for fishing below the dam at least three times, just loud enough so the guy on the other side of me can hear it. Works like a charm no feelings hurt and what is obviously a new fisherman to the area learns the system and lines don't get crossed, heck sometimes the new fisherman will follow up with a couple of questions.

But Tommy also has a point. My partner and I have also discussed fishing etiquette and that has worked, though sometimes it hasn't. I think everybody should be polite and respectful, but I have banged a weight or two off the side of a boat. Knew one guy that kept a spool of heavy spider wire in his pocket.....for "collecting" impolite fishermens rigs.


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## Crawfish (May 7, 2002)

Are the honest, considerate sportsman really in the minority out there on these rivers? I always thought there were slightly more decent guys than [email protected], and I hope that is still the case.

The reason I say this is because I think the best approach we can take is to police the rivers ourselves. I don't mean fistfights, but if all the decent sportsmen back each other up and stop tolerating the bullsh*& from these guys, I think they would be chased out of Dodge. 

The problem is, everyone stands back and says, "wow, what an @sshole. Let's see if that guy with his kids kicks his @ss." I'm not ripping anyone here for not doing anything, because I know it happens everywhere, and this has become characteristic of our society. Same reason people get mugged and murdered in NYC and people stand by and watch and don't even call the cops.

But if we all stood up together and stopped tolerating all this crap, they would be chased out, the way you see a bunch of geese chasing the fox out of their nesting grounds. I'm sure you'll still have idiots on the isolated stretches, but maybe they would be scared to set foot in the crowded areas?


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## Beave (Aug 26, 2002)

Buy a boat.

Seriously, best decision I ever made. I got sick of combat fishing too. If you can't afford one, make friends with people here who have a boat. Check out the coldwater forum some time. If you toss up a thread saying "Looking to hit the big lake this weekend", I guarantee you'll find someone willing to take you out for the price of a little gas and a cooler of pop/beer.

I'm all for guns, but the fact that we're issuing CCW's now to anyone who can manage to sit though a class scares the bejeezus out of me. It can't be long before someone pulls a gun out of their waders and things really get ugly.


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## Rasdale (Mar 1, 2000)

That's why I quit Steelhead fishing. Used to fish the Betsie from the end of Feburary to the end of April. This was in the 70's until the mid 80's. You would be fishing a hole, and here the 9 o'clock fisherman (that's what my Dad used to call them) would come and try to force you out. They would stand so close, you couldn't even cast your line. Any one remember Dick Swan? That was his and his's fishing buddies trick. If they wanted to fish there, they were going to, no matter who was there. Even if you said anything they wouldn't move, after a few trips like that. I had enough and quit fishing Steelhead in the spring.


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## tommy-n (Jan 9, 2004)

I have a boat 19ft ranger with 150hp, I was not fishing the dam , and I do think most people are decent. But what do you do with the guys like I ran into? walking away is not the answer, they win and next weekend they do the same thing to someone else


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## Jeffrey Sr (Jan 22, 2004)

I can honestly say I could not stand there and listen to someone cuss at a father fishing with his children on the river, and not step into the mess. I mean come on now! Why would someone try to intrude on that? Over a fish? There is no place for that. This is where others need "to step up to the plate". If you see that type of bs on the river why not at the least say "What's up with that?" No reason for that type of behavior to be tolerated. Might as well bring your dog, put the booties on her and let her play fetch in a hole if thats the goal. 
P.S. I'm a small guy, without an attitude, but yes I have a lab.


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## scoot (Jul 4, 2001)

Yea Im gettin pretty sick of the rogue, and spring steelhead, just too many people. Yesterday i got really pi$$ed off. I was walkin the bank and noticed a weenie fighting a fish that i knew was snagged. Despite this he kept fighting it until he saw me staring, then he started yanking and said "he wont come off." I walked off thinkin if the guy did land it he would release it or just break it off. 5 min later i was on my way out of the parking lot and saw the yellow rodded @$$ ripper with the fish in his net walking to the car. Get a life! Does that make you feel like a sportsman? Another guy at the Rogue was standing on a big rock on private prop lookin for fish on a redd (cant fish for them unless you see them). The landowner came out and asked the man to get off his property and the guy said "you dont own the river" and the landowner said "yea but i own this land" The man just stood there while the landowner yelled. Then the owner went inside still saying to get off his land and the guy still stood there for a few minutes. What a jerk! Ill admit I occasionally walk on private land when the water is high and fast but i stay as close to the river as possible and if someone asked me to get off I would surely apologize and get off and make it a point never to walk in the particular area again. 
I think I'm gonna get a DNR hat and walk around the rivers. One guy my friend talked to goes down to 6th street and fishes right at the ladder and rips fish. He told my friend he's landed 96 steelhead since Feb and kept all of them. My friend watched as the guy came down on his lunch break and hooked four fish on four casts, all snagged, and left with two on the stringer. The guy smiled and said "that's 98." Apparently he usually fishes at night when no one is around. Ridiculous! 
I hope we get a huge cool down so only the diehards are on the river and the fish get off the gravel because it's suicide. Its not a sin to release a steelhead. I heard one guy saying he hates fish but he'll give them to someone.
I dont have a problem when people fish gravel (although that seems to be the place most weenies are) but good grief release a fish if its lined, if you have any doubt at all release it. Fish dont lose the game if they dont bite because they never wanted to play. If they want to play, and do bite, have at it, catch and release or keep a few but what in God's green earth is someone gonna do with 98 steelhead.


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## tommy-n (Jan 9, 2004)

I just want to thank everyone that responded, I know most guys are sportsman out there. It's the other guys that make it bad for all of us. I did not want to kick that guys [email protected]@ in front of my kids, even though thats the only way people like him will learn, How could I tell my kids not to fight in school if I would of hit him. thanks guys


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## MIBIGHNTR (Aug 27, 2002)

Unfortunately there is a certain percentage of "bad seeds" in every segment of our society. Whether it be social groups, sports teams, organizations, or the outdoor activities we all love. It is a pitty that these individuals usually cause the whole to be stereotyped for the actions of the few.

My wife has a saying she like to use when I start going-off about one of these idiots, "Take the high road". 

Sometimes this makes me consider that maybe they are truely the unfortunate idiots they apear to be, but sometimes I still have the urge to pummel them.  

Mark


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## Todd Frank (Nov 20, 2003)

Maybe the DNR should include boxing gloves with every trout stamp..LOL


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## fishing addict (Mar 15, 2003)

I carry my Mexican Boxing Gloves(AKA Shrade & Chicago Cutlery) with me always.


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## GVSUKUSH (Mar 9, 2004)

Here's my rant-

I love to see the guys fighting a steely from a half mile up river hooked in the tail. I was on the White recently and had a guy following his son downriver who was fighting a fish hooked in the tail, as he went by my buddy said to the kid, "that ones in the a$$ buddy", he just went on by....Sure enough here comes a the guy back upstream 10 minutes later with a steely on a stringer. I said to the Dad, "hey, where was that fish hooked?". The dad looked me right in the eye and said "RIGHT IN THE CORNER OF THE MOUTH" and had a stare down with me. No service on the cell phone and we were outnumbered 3 to 2, I'm a big guy, but this guy was quite a bit bigger. I thought it was a great way to teach your son how to be a snagger. Interesting crowd on the White, although I love the river.

By the way, that guy upstream of Rouge River Road is a real A-Hole. He's thrown all of his brush in the stream along his lawn and made it really tough to get by. Legally, I believe you can enter and exit the river near his property by the bridge, I want to go check the aerial maps at Plainfield Township because the County Road Right of Way extends 33 feet from the center of the road, and it's usually more than that at bridge crossings. 

We all acidentally snag fish....point your rod tip at 'em and hold the line and break 'em off, saves the fish the 2 mile fight and who the hell cares about landing a foul hooked fish?

I hear ya Beave, I'm looking for a boat to run the Grand, Kzoo, Joe and Muskegon.

More steelheading pet peaves-
1. Snaggers
2. Guys who stand in the middle of the runs for some reason
3. Litter Bugs
4. Guys who can't stay in order when it's busy
5. Fish on! Coming Down! and the guy casts over you anyway
6. The one guy who says you're crowding him when you're 100 feet away.
7. Anybody fishing around the ladder from shore on the Grand
I got others, anyone care to add?


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GVSUKUSH _
> *as he went by my buddy said to the kid, "that ones in the a$$ buddy", he just went on by.... *


No doubt spring and fall brings out the worst in people, but it just seems that is not the way to talk to a kid who probably only knows what his Dad has showed him. Statements like that just add to the problems on the river. Is it so hard to say "looks like that one is fouled"?


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

> I got others, anyone care to add?


Yeah...spawned out hens. That's a big pet peeve of mine when it comes to spring steelhead fishing. How can I replenish my egg supply when those inconsiderate fish drop their eggs before I can get to them? Tight hens too...those irritate me as well. I hate skein! 

 

As for the fist fight thing, I'm numb to it now. When I was younger, I spent a lot of time at the Allegan dam. After watching guys pull guns or knives on each other or break a Whiskey bottle over someone's head because of an argument over who's treble hook hit the side of a gnarly 'ol salmon's hide first, anything else--fistfights included, just doesn't come close...although if the fly fishermen on the Rogue got into a "rumble" with the bait guys, that might be interesting. Kind of a "West Side Story" for anglers...I'd watch that. Might even join in, who knows?


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## GVSUKUSH (Mar 9, 2004)

Sorry for not clarifying, The 'kid' was about 20, I don't think he was offended or even listening and any "conditioning" from his dad was allready in place. I guess we could've just tipped our hats and pretended like it didn't happen.......


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