# Not very helpful



## mweberski (Jan 20, 2012)

As a new resident in Michigan and someone who is trying to expand from warm water fishing to trout fishing, I'm not finding this forum very helpful at all.
I understand that specific locations shouldnt be posted here bc the whole world can read it, but I recently posted an article asking general questions about Crockery Creek. I also wrote to feel free to PM me so that helpful suggestions wont be public. And my thread was closed....

Again, not very helpful and worse than that, it feels I'm being excluded rather than included. 

Why even have a trout section on this forum if you treat new trout anglers like this?

I'm an expert warm water fisherman and would be happy to talk to others about where I used to catch fish in my former state. I wish trout anglers were the same way....


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## diztortion (Sep 6, 2009)

http://michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168595


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## quest32a (Sep 25, 2001)

Trout anglers are a pretty tight lipped group in general. If I fished Crockery Creek I probably would have sent you a pm with a bit of info. But I have zero experience up there. 

BTW, even though it feels like you may be excluded, in my 10 years here as a moderator I have probably closed 500+ threads just like yours from newer members looking for info on small no name creeks. I close them and move on. I don't have time to pm every member on every thread I close with a reason. Its my blanket policy to close threads like that, and I will continue to. Hopefully someone pms you some kind of info.....

Some rivers though, I refuse to share info on. Aside from very, very general. There is a lot of trial and error in trout fishing and I have wasted 1000's of dollars of gas in my life learning new spots. And I do protect them.


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## slowpaya (Oct 23, 2011)

where do you live webski ???


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## Boardman Brookies (Dec 20, 2007)

The above posts pretty much sum up it up. It is the site policy however there are a lot of old threads on this site that are still open. I just typed in the name and there are some old threads with some useful info. When ever I fish a new creek/river I always check the DNRs site to see if every has been stocked. Then I have an idea what may be in it. Good luck to you.


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

quest32a said:


> Trout anglers are a pretty tight lipped group in general. If I fished Crockery Creek I probably would have sent you a pm with a bit of info. But I have zero experience up there.
> 
> BTW, even though it feels like you may be excluded, in my 10 years here as a moderator I have probably closed 500+ threads just like yours from newer members looking for info on small no name creeks. I close them and move on. I don't have time to pm every member on every thread I close with a reason. Its my blanket policy to close threads like that, and I will continue to. Hopefully someone pms you some kind of info.....
> 
> Some rivers though, I refuse to share info on. Aside from very, very general. There is a lot of trial and error in trout fishing and I have wasted 1000's of dollars of gas in my life learning new spots. And I do protect them.


 Out of those 500 posts John has gotten 400 good leads.


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## troutguy26 (Apr 28, 2011)

U need to fill out your profile. And personally i think someone should ask for advice for the area they plan on going to not the stream. The stream names can be talked thru the pm process. Anyway if you pm me some of your plans i will help a little.


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## mweberski (Jan 20, 2012)

I live in Midland.


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## riverbob (Jan 11, 2011)

there are a couple of peir's by black Lake, if the winds right, you might get trout there.


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## quest32a (Sep 25, 2001)

plugger said:


> Out of those 500 posts John has gotten 400 good leads.


Haha, yeah but for every 20 leads you chase only 1-2 pans out....LOL

I don't know how many miles of creek I have wandered just looking for that great hole around the bend. I rarely find it. Normally just end up with a sunburn and mosquito bites.


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## diztortion (Sep 6, 2009)

A combination of google maps and MDNR fish stocking can aid in the help of useful fishing spots.


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## tannhd (Dec 3, 2010)

Just got back from a section of stream I found using maps. I caught a few nice 15 inchers. Nothi g huge, but I found this stream, and now I know I like it. That's how I do it. Research/trial and error. 


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## mweberski (Jan 20, 2012)

The stocking data definitely seems useful (although I've fished places that were stocked and got nothing but gobies). 
I'm having trouble locating some of the stockings. 
For example, heres a random listing for a stocking in kalamazoo county:
Kalamazoo	Portage Creek
CENTER ROAD
(03S 11W 16)

If I want to locate this, what is the 03S 11W 16? They arent GPS coordinates. I cant figure it out??


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## Boardman Brookies (Dec 20, 2007)

mweberski said:


> The stocking data definitely seems useful (although I've fished places that were stocked and got nothing but gobies).
> I'm having trouble locating some of the stockings.
> For example, heres a random listing for a stocking in kalamazoo county:
> Kalamazoo Portage Creek
> ...


I haven't figured out the coordinates either but this is what I do. Fire up Google Earth, for your example, type in Kzoo, then center road, then search around until you see where the road crosses the stream. Next step is to look up the map on the DNR site and see if it is public land. Not 100% perfect but I have found some cool places just like this.


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## Afterthaut (Sep 7, 2011)

You want some good info? Invest in two books, both written by Tom Huggler. They came out in the late 90's but they have great inside info... some of it may be outdated, but you can always double check it by looking up the DNR fish stocking reports. The books are called Fish Michigan 50 rivers and fish Michigan 50 MORE Rivers. It will tell you the where when and how of each river listed, including the tribs that are worthwhile. I've gotten a ton of great advice from these books. They are priceless.

As for Crockery Creek, since it is a trib of a major river that starts with a "G" It is in there. As a matter of fact, I'm reading the blurb about it as I type.

If I may be frank for a minute, most of the guys here won't tell you anything about any river, even if it is on the list, unless it is the most blatantly obvious spot or tactic. In some cases, I think you may see posts on here that are intentionally meant to mislead people. Some people act like they own every river in the state. Its too bad too, because that attitude has a tendency to ruin one's enthusiasm for the sport.


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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

Afterthaut said:


> If I may be frank for a minute, most of the guys here won't tell you anything about any river, even if it is on the list, unless it is the most blatantly obvious spot or tactic. In some cases, I think you may see posts on here that are intentionally meant to mislead people. Some people act like they own every river in the state. Its too bad too, because that attitude has a tendency to ruin one's enthusiasm for the sport.


No offense, but those rude guys unwilling to blab things out also more than likely hoofed their @ss off finding those spots. Instead of jumping on Michigan-Sportsman, they jumped in the river and did their homework. There is a HUGE difference between sharing_ some_ info and giving it _all_ away. I find it amazing how people are called unhelpful...unless they tell you right where to go and the exact baits and patterns working for them. Ph*** that.


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## llpof (Mar 31, 2012)

Afterthaut said:


> You want some good info? Invest in two books, both written by Tom Huggler. They came out in the late 90's but they have great inside info... some of it may be outdated, but you can always double check it by looking up the DNR fish stocking reports. The books are called Fish Michigan 50 rivers and fish Michigan 50 MORE Rivers. It will tell you the where when and how of each river listed, including the tribs that are worthwhile. I've gotten a ton of great advice from these books. They are priceless.
> 
> As for Crockery Creek, since it is a trib of a major river that starts with a "G" It is in there. As a matter of fact, I'm reading the blurb about it as I type.
> 
> If I may be frank for a minute, most of the guys here won't tell you anything about any river, even if it is on the list, unless it is the most blatantly obvious spot or tactic. In some cases, I think you may see posts on here that are intentionally meant to mislead people. Some people act like they own every river in the state. Its too bad too, because that attitude has a tendency to ruin one's enthusiasm for the sport.


I recall that one of Bedford's books is on the Grand and it's tribs . It's also a good source of info. A decent set of county maps can be very valuable as well.


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## llpof (Mar 31, 2012)

LuckyChucky said:


> but becareful John or someone will say you are a selfish ,thread destroying, forum ruining jerkwad just like me


Not likely. I think AS posts some great reports off of some small water that he tries to protect. His bigger water reports are both helpful and transparent.

Sorry about those Caseville Lakers.


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## troutguy26 (Apr 28, 2011)

ausable_steelhead said:


> No offense, but those rude guys unwilling to blab things out also more than likely hoofed their @ss off finding those spots. Instead of jumping on Michigan-Sportsman, they jumped in the river and did their homework. There is a HUGE difference between sharing_ some_ info and giving it _all_ away. I find it amazing how people are called unhelpful...unless they tell you right where to go and the exact baits and patterns working for them. Ph*** that.


Exactly. There should be a sticky for all new guys with the dnr website link on it. Go explore and find out whats out there. I offered to help a little but no reply from him.


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## Speyday (Oct 1, 2004)

Your new, I see; so frankly, you get a pass merely on the fact that you don't know any better. 

Your key take away is that if you think of a certain stream name, and use this sites 'search' function, and nothing comes up; consider that a clue that you might want to discuss it off-line.

Its like an out of town guy walking into the local bar. Theres a certain way to enter, sit down, look about, and enjoy the seasoned company. Same thing here. So, here's a story to get you thinking:


A couple times I wanted to use the internet/forums to begin researching some sensitive streams. Like all of us, I wanted something quick, easy, and effortless because I would onlyl visit the area once while traveling for business.


So I put out a message that said, in essence:

"Hey, members of ______.com.... there are a couple small streams in the southern part of the province that I am wondering about, and hoping someone can share some general info to get me started. I don't see any posts with the stream name here, so I don't want to blab it here.

I don't want your honey holes or secrets. Again, just some general info to help me spend a day on the water with some competence. Anybody that feels they know the SW part of the province well; please PM me?"

I got tons of responses.................from CANADIANS. Who we often accuse of being tight-lipped.
If you truly are willing to do anything to find out about seldom talke about water water consider these pre-internet tactics: land-owners in the area start to talk more if you show up at there doorstep with a home made apple pie that comes with a few questions and asking permission to traverse their property. or beer. or the promise of giving them a couple fresh filets at the end of the day. See that? No internet involved.

If you think the above is going too far, or silly, just know that others have done it successfully. and they will rarely share how they did it. Plus, you just don't want it bad enough.

The moral of the story is that this is a better approach to accomplish what you want.
There's so much information available for self study these days via the net its amazing.
And complaining about it is like catching flies with vinegar.

The growth of the entitlement generation is also amazing, but I digress.


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