# 70 Degree Pledge



## KWB (Mar 1, 2009)

Perhaps many individuals/guides should take this pledge in regards to Southwestern Michigan's Summer steelhead fishery as well...

http://www.70degreepledge.org/


----------



## fishing-finlander (Sep 30, 2008)

This is an excelent practice, while I know trout are cold water species I never thought about this as an criteria for relaseing fish and thier recovery. I always try to handle the fish as little as possible, and return them as safely as possible anlong with barbless hooks etc etc. But I never consider water temp when I let a fish go or its recovery process. I only considered water temp for rather fish would be bitting or not, and hatch patterns. Thanks for putting me on, this is great info. I will take the pledge and support this effort


----------



## quest32a (Sep 25, 2001)

Or just take your 3 and go home.


----------



## KWB (Mar 1, 2009)

quest32a said:


> Or just take your 3 and go home.


That too obviously...

It was mainly intended for the guys who are attempting to practice catch & release, enjoy standing at a creek mouth hooking 45 a day and thinking they can release them and they will survive...


----------



## fishing-finlander (Sep 30, 2008)

I suppose if everyone took thier 3 and went home we wouldnt have to worry about trout at all. Heck for that matter I keep my three and catch three for you. Its a proven fact that relased fish do survive its the fishermans responsibility to ensure he gives them the best chance possible to do that. "these fish should be caught and caught often" some quote i heard about catch and relase. Meaning if you release them they have a chance to be caught again


----------



## KWB (Mar 1, 2009)

fishing-finlander said:


> I suppose if everyone took thier 3 and went home we wouldnt have to worry about trout at all. Heck for that matter I keep my three and catch three for you. Its a proven fact that relased fish do survive its the fishermans responsibility to ensure he gives them the best chance possible to do that. "these fish should be caught and caught often" some quote i heard about catch and relase. Meaning if you release them they have a chance to be caught again


I think you have completely misunderstood what he was saying...


----------



## fishing-finlander (Sep 30, 2008)

ok my appologies then:lol: i care less what other fisherman do they pay thier licences fees. I only know what I practice and this is worth practicing. I grew up on the yellow dog, if i told you guys what I seen practiced on that river you would be disgusted.


----------



## quest32a (Sep 25, 2001)

fishing-finlander said:


> I suppose if everyone took thier 3 and went home we wouldnt have to worry about trout at all. Heck for that matter I keep my three and catch three for you. Its a proven fact that relased fish do survive its the fishermans responsibility to ensure he gives them the best chance possible to do that. "these fish should be caught and caught often" some quote i heard about catch and relase. Meaning if you release them they have a chance to be caught again


Sorry, I was referring to Kory's original comment about Skamanias. Not trout, way different circumstances.


----------



## wintrrun (Jun 11, 2008)

KWB said:


> Perhaps many individuals/guides should take this pledge in regards to Southwestern Michigan's Summer steelhead fishery as well...


It would be nice to see .. however too many people are either uneducated as too what a skam can tolerate or just don't plain care.
Great idea for a pledge tho.


----------



## fishing-finlander (Sep 30, 2008)

It would be giving people too much credit to say they dont care. Most just dont want to take the time to educate themselves about skam's or trout in general. They dont understand the slime on them and what its there for, and what tromping through beds dose, or leaving trash on the banks does. Most people I even talk to about this kind of stuff dont have a clue untill I explain to them the runs, the importance of the stinking dying salmon they should be able to snag anyway and keep etc etc. But im cynical and self taught so I expect people to take the time to learn before they go spend 100 + on rods and reels. Its about the take and not the catch plainly put


----------



## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

quest32a said:


> Or just take your 3 and go home.


Bingo--we have a winner!


----------



## wolvron (Apr 17, 2008)

KWB said:


> That too obviously...
> 
> It was mainly intended for the guys who are attempting to practice catch & release, enjoy standing at a creek mouth hooking 45 a day and thinking they can release them and they will survive...


 

depends on where your at. It's the reason why I fish where I fish. staying away from the frog water.


----------



## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

I guess I kind of took the pledge a number of years ago, without really thinking too much about it. After fishing Skams at Tippy for years, I got tired of seeing released fish floating 5 minutes later, and going to waste - unless someone thinks they are well used as Crayfish food. It always seems like a bonus, anymore, when a run of Skams comes in early enough that they can fight like champions, and be released to survive. Once the water gets above 65*, I literally lose interest, anymore. Some years are better than others.
I will say that I catch and keep Skams from warm water, once in awhile. Piers are cool for Skams and Manistees sometimes.


----------



## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

It's a pretty simple concept:

Skams are not Michigan Steelhead--nor are they stream trout. 

Unless you're fishing at Tippy, they're not even our fish--they're Indiana plants or strays from other states.

Genetically, they're far inferior to Michigan strain steelhead. 

Whether you fish for them or not, the bulk of them ARE GOING TO DIE. 

They're really no different than the planter trout that the DNR throws in the Huron River for the annual "stockerfest." No matter what, they're going to die.

You simply cannot apply the same logic to skams that you would a Michigan strain steelhead--i.e. catch n release, etc. 

Most of the time, once the skam is in the net, it's already near death. 

Skams are fun...a lot of fun, I love 'em, but...river or pier, take a stringer. 

Bang 'em, box 'em, go home. That's skam fishing in a nutshell.


----------



## KWB (Mar 1, 2009)

thousandcasts said:


> It's a pretty simple concept:
> 
> Skams are not Michigan Steelhead--nor are they stream trout.
> 
> ...


I agree to an extent, but it's just plain wasteful to sit at a creek mouth 7 days a week "literally for one group of guys" and hook dozens of skams every single night and release them to become turtle food. Even at 3 fish per night, 7 days a week for 3 months, you do the math, that's a lot of wasted fish...

If you are going to keep your limit, the "pledge" is moot, but there are guys thinking "or just don't care" that these fish are surviving release after being fought to death in bath water.


----------



## KWB (Mar 1, 2009)

wolvron said:


> depends on where your at. It's the reason why I fish where I fish. staying away from the frog water.


Where you are fishing is the main reason for my post, that river gets in the upper 70's every Summer and yet there are guys there fishing and releasing fish after fish...


----------



## wolvron (Apr 17, 2008)

now thats funny. we cant be talking about the same place. 66 is the warmest i have seen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## KWB (Mar 1, 2009)

We are, everytime you get any rain in the Summer and it gets a bit muddy/stained, the temp slams straight up. It does it every single Summer basically. Then when the water gets really low, the springs tend to cool it back off at night, but there is still a big swing of temperature from morning to afternoon. It certainly gets in the mid to upper 70's just about every single Summer, it did last year on a number of occasions and it was a cooler Summer than usual.

Plus, the temp at the dam can be 5 degrees colder than just a mile downstream as well, many people take a temp at 6AM up by the dam and just assume they are fishing in colder water all the way downstream. Even more people I think just feel the water on their legs and think it's colder than it is as it's 80+ degrees outside and certainly feels colder than it actually is.

Frogpoop tried to argue the same thing once upon a time. I would be happy to show you sometime as it's pointless to argue about it on here. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt it does so and am happy to prove it.

Anyway, not here to argue or force anyone to do anything, just trying to merely raise awareness. Take it for that and do whatever you want. Many people consider Skam's trash, I do not. If they were so inferior why is there wild naturally reproducing populations of them all up and down the West coast of Michigan? Just my opinion and that's all...

As far as Hutch saying they are NOT our fish, well the MDNR stocking truck was in my business parking lot yesterday, stepped outside to chat with him and he had just dumped a ton of Winter steelhead in the river up in Indiana, so I would argue all the steelhead running the Joe are both Michigan and Indiana's fish as there is obviously a lot of cooperation going on here.


----------



## wintrrun (Jun 11, 2008)

I talked with a buddy today who works in the Washington State Fisheries. Here's what he had to say on this 70 degree rule applied to Summer-Run Steelhead fishing.
At 70 degree water temps put the fish on a rope or in the box and take it home. The mortality rate in landed summer run steelhead starts to show up just as the water temps go over 60 degrees and then the % increases with every degree over 60. 70 degrees he said was way out of the acceptable range for C&R. 
The general rule of thumb in Washington is if the water temps go into the low 60's than either keep the fish or just don't fish at all.
wint


----------



## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

I am a strong believer in this statement and have never ever released a skam. I fish the st. Joe for them and thats the only river I target skams in. I was also raised to fish for skams the natural way, let them eat the bait. I am not for all this fly fishing B.S. were most if not all the catches in a clear stream are "tight lined" meaning the fly is drug through there mouth and the fish is not eating it. I used to fish with a small #10 treble hook with some special cured spawn I called skam candy. But thanks to the complaining of the fly fisherman its was changed to single hook only, 1 to 2 years ago. I am not for single hooks at all when a skam smashes that spawn with only a single hook in a small stream mouth there is just to many things that can go wrong. I liked the security of the small treble as i am not in it to release the fish in the first place. And when you have 5-10 fly fisherman sitting there casting and whipping that line over the skams in a small creek mouth they get all spooked up. Now I myself am a beginner fly fisherman but fly fishing for skams is just a cheap way of fishing and is not sporting at all.


----------



## wolvron (Apr 17, 2008)

hotbite said:


> You guys are tools! Keep it up and you will no longer have a spot to stand to fish.


 
alway's have a spot to fish. people get discouraged, and leave then we go to railing.


----------



## Frogpoopin (Sep 6, 2006)

hotbite said:


> You guys are tools! Keep it up and you will no longer have a spot to stand to fish.



spoken like a true fly fisherman, thats your problem, you stand around...never happen with us ...see ya on the water


----------



## wintrrun (Jun 11, 2008)

Frogpoopin said:


> July is when my buds from Ohio invade...us we fish year round..when ya want to meet up wint?


Anytimes good for me, Frog. 
I'll drop ya a p.m.


----------



## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

Personally, I'll be fishing whenever my vacation/free time permits.


----------



## Flightstopper (Nov 19, 2009)

This was a really intresting thread to read. I'd love to get in with you guys on one of your trips. Be nice to get a few for the grill, but im not into catching and releasing them if they are going to die. Great points were made all throughout this. Great thread


----------



## hotbite (Aug 21, 2009)

Frogpoopin said:


> spoken like a true fly fisherman, thats your problem, you stand around...never happen with us ...see ya on the water



Actually it was spoken like a man that was catching 30-40 a day back when you were still clueless on how to fill your stringer. I guess some anglers still feel the need to pump up their ego on the internet though. Skamania are the easiest fish to catch, if you feel special that you can catch them then good for you. Maybe someday you will have caught enough fish and will not have to pump your chest out on the internet like a greenhorn.


----------



## Fishbone (Oct 10, 2008)

hotbite said:


> Actually it was spoken like a man that was catching 30-40 a day back when you were still clueless on how to fill your stringer. I guess some anglers still feel the need to pump up their ego on the internet though. Skamania are the easiest fish to catch, if you feel special that you can catch them then good for you. Maybe someday you will have caught enough fish and will not have to pump your chest out on the internet like a greenhorn.



:chillin::lol:


----------



## kzoochromer (Feb 17, 2010)

hotbite said:


> Actually it was spoken like a man that was catching 30-40 a day back when you were still clueless on how to fill your stringer. I guess some anglers still feel the need to pump up their ego on the internet though. Skamania are the easiest fish to catch, if you feel special that you can catch them then good for you. Maybe someday you will have caught enough fish and will not have to pump your chest out on the internet like a greenhorn.


ditto...they are fun to catch, but show SOME restraint.


----------



## Frogpoopin (Sep 6, 2006)

hotbite said:


> Actually it was spoken like a man that was catching 30-40 a day back when you were still clueless on how to fill your stringer. I guess some anglers still feel the need to pump up their ego on the internet though. Skamania are the easiest fish to catch, if you feel special that you can catch them then good for you. Maybe someday you will have caught enough fish and will not have to pump your chest out on the internet like a greenhorn.



honestly 30-40 a day is not a lot ..


----------



## KWB (Mar 1, 2009)

Easy guys, before we have to issue pads for your chests from all the beating going on here... :lol:


----------



## hotbite (Aug 21, 2009)

Frogpoopin said:


> honestly 30-40 a day is not a lot ..


I would be willing to bet it would seem like a thousand to you if you got onto some real water.:lol: Cooped up summer fish don't count.


----------



## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

> Cooped up summer fish don't count.


Great point. I fish skams...pier, river, creek mouth, whatever...they're fun. I get out quite a bit fishing them. BUT...let's face it: skams are just like a bunch of drunk fat women at a sex toy party--doesn't require much game to hook up, ya know?


----------



## brookie~freak (Jul 8, 2007)

thousandcasts said:


> Great point. I fish skams...pier, river, creek mouth, whatever...they're fun. I get out quite a bit fishing them. BUT...let's face it: skams are just like a bunch of drunk fat women at a sex toy party--doesn't require much game to hook up, ya know?


:lol: :lol:


----------



## Frogpoopin (Sep 6, 2006)

hotbite said:


> Actually it was spoken like a man that was catching 30-40 a day back when you were still clueless on how to fill your stringer. I guess some anglers still feel the need to pump up their ego on the internet though. Skamania are the easiest fish to catch, if you feel special that you can catch them then good for you. Maybe someday you will have caught enough fish and will not have to pump your chest out on the internet like a greenhorn.



yea your right ...ive only been fishing for steelhead for 20 plus years I dont know much never been anyplace other than the creeks to hammer them never been out of state to pound them ...nope not me...my resume has no mention of the west coast or Canada or guiding for them for years...nope I am just a dumb greenhorn thumping my chest..best get a clue about what and who you speak about..so thump away and enjoy


----------



## Frogpoopin (Sep 6, 2006)

hotbite said:


> I would be willing to bet it would seem like a thousand to you if you got onto some real water.:lol: Cooped up summer fish don't count.


too funny:lol::lol:


----------



## hotbite (Aug 21, 2009)

T double O L:lol:


----------

