# Should Airbows Be Allowed in Archery Season?



## UpNorthAirGunner (Sep 5, 2017)

I know this will make some of you come unglued - but here it is anyway:

So I have been advocating for this rule change now for a few years and have done multiple DNR demos of this technology. Michigan HB 4332 would allow arrows / bolts to be used as an approved projectile and method of take for disabled hunters in the archery season and an approved projectile in the rest of the seasons for all hunters. Read full bill here: http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2019-HB-4332

Michigan was one of the first states to allow for big bore / big game hunting, but left out the airbow technology based on the archery association becoming unglued about this technology. Some of you hunters from the 18 other states that allow for big game hunting had this technology option baked into your state regs when your laws first passed recently. 

For me, I really just want to be able to Turkey hunt with it in the Spring and Fall and maybe Deer hunt during the firearm season just for kicks. To stop disabled Vets and hunters from using this technology is just protectionist BS! Or am I missing something and this is really negatively affecting other hunter experiences in the woods?

This is my official video testimony based on my expertise and technical review of this technology as well as my opinions based on my status as a Post 9-11 U.S. Army Veteran and concerned Michigan resident in support of disabled hunters and disabled veterans. Check it out:


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

Well you can argue a cross bow is archery but no way can you argue an air bow is even remotely close and has any place in bow season .What's next lazer bows ?


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## TriggerDiscipline (Sep 25, 2017)

I'd say for disabled hunters it's okay, but then the definition of "disabled" seems to be getting very generously stretched.


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## snortwheeze (Jul 31, 2012)

TriggerDiscipline said:


> I'd say for disabled hunters it's okay, but then the definition of "disabled" seems to be getting very generously stretched.


 There's a "disabled" fella that has permission on state land to drive through field office so he don't have to WALK an extra 100 yards when they close the gates at a certain point. Told me to, said "I'm fine, it's a 100 yards I'll wheel it, no biggie".....

And my answer is no.


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## C20chris (Dec 4, 2007)

I have a different take on this (and crossbows) instead of "yes" or "no". I believe a portion of the season should be left for people who actually have to draw their equipment back while a deer is standing there and correctly gauge the distance (that is the challenge isn't it?). Lets say - the month of October. 

Then from Nov 1-14 it is open for crossbows and airbows. This would encourage individuals to own both (more revenue for shops/manufacturers) to take advantage of the added range and stealth of a crossbow/airbow.

December, could again be open to all types as not many people are hunting with arrows of any kind this time of the year.


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## Lumberman (Sep 27, 2010)

“STICK AND STRING”

That is what makes something archery tackle. 

That is a gun that shoots arrows.

That being said Efficacy is the reason for having long archery seasons. We are for sure pushing those limits with some of the new crossbows.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

C20chris said:


> I have a different take on this (and crossbows) instead of "yes" or "no". I believe a portion of the season should be left for people who actually have to draw their equipment back while a deer is standing there and correctly gauge the distance (that is the challenge isn't it?). Lets say - the month of October.
> 
> Then from Nov 1-14 it is open for crossbows and airbows. This would encourage individuals to own both (more revenue for shops/manufacturers) to take advantage of the added range and stealth of a crossbow/airbow.
> 
> December, could again be open to all types as not many people are hunting with arrows of any kind this time of the year.


I might agree with you on the bow only portion of the season, if it would be only for traditional long bows and recurves.


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## C20chris (Dec 4, 2007)

Petronius said:


> I might agree with you on the bow only portion of the season, if it would be only for traditional long bows and recurves.


I get that if you shoot traditional. You have to admit that you would be leaving out the majority of bowhunters with that approach.

Ultimately, the crossbow (or compound) will not be limited. Only possibility, would be to open airbows up. I say give them a couple weeks in December. It would help shops sell another product line and may encourage individuals to hunt a little more.


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

Poop and Dung views crossbows as a threat to whitetail deer. Bet they'd have a grand maul seizure over this one...


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

C20chris said:


> I get that if you shoot traditional. You have to admit that you would be leaving out the majority of bowhunters with that approach.
> 
> Ultimately, the crossbow (or compound) will not be limited. Only possibility, would be to open airbows up. I say give them a couple weeks in December. It would help shops sell another product line and may encourage individuals to hunt a little more.


I was being sarcastic. There will always be groups who want to restrict how sportsman hunt while others want to open and expand hunting options.
Many traditional bow hunters were against compound bows when they first came out. Then many bow hunters , traditional and compound, were against crossbows. The same happened with muzzleloaders. Many traditional side lock shooters were against the inline muzzleloaders. It goes on and on, groups against handgun hunters, groups against centerfire in zone 3, blah, blah, blah.
I could go on with mountain bike vs. e-bikes and bikers vs. hikers, etc.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

UpNorthAirGunner said:


> I know this will make some of you come unglued - but here it is anyway:
> 
> So I have been advocating for this rule change now for a few years and have done multiple DNR demos of this technology. Michigan HB 4332 would allow arrows / bolts to be used as an approved projectile and method of take for disabled hunters in the archery season and an approved projectile in the rest of the seasons for all hunters. Read full bill here: http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2019-HB-4332
> 
> ...


 [Or am I missing something and this is really negatively affecting other hunter experiences in the woods?]

Are airbows negatively affecting other hunters in the woods?
No , not here in Mi. where they are not a method of take.
What are the potential effects?
What are documented affects where legal?

If deer kill increases enough then season length or quota adjustment would make sense to adjust. What's new in that concept?

For disabled hunters?
I don't know.
My disabled budget says stick with a rifle during the disabled hunt.
And use one of the two crossbows for archery.
Do I need to spend a few hundred more on another weapon? Do I want a new weapon?
Maybe others do. I'm pretty well set. Novelty is pretty much extended to mobility more than latest technology of projectile launching as far as spending fantasies.

People could hunt from rubber rafts with shotgun shell driven harpoons for all I care.
As long as the targeted resource is monitored for it's sake. As it is now ,in theory.

All that said.
I recall the first compound shooter watched at an indoor range in Muskegon in the early seventies. Must have been an Allen Speedster. (?)
Academically interesting of course , it spit an arrow with authority. But we other shooters were about jumping at every shot of that "machine" , and unanimously agreed quickly that the noise alone precluded hunting consideration. L.o.l.. Things evolved ,didn't they?

Around that time a comic came out.
Two guys standing by a giant metal (?) box.
One guy had pressed a button on the side while he and the other guy watched as an arrow exited the box....


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## aphess223 (Aug 1, 2001)

Petronius said:


> I might agree with you on the bow only portion of the season, if it would be only for traditional long bows and recurves.


I have been around since before compound's there weren't that many bow hunters it's all about advantage trying get there deer before somebody else


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

I could care less. If you want to go for a bow season then use a long bow with no sights from Oct to Nov15 then use what ever after that. I also have been around a long time before compound bows


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

A big NO on that thing.That is not a bow by any definition. Archery isn't for everyone and was never meant to be easy. With today technologie a 35# bow will kill any deer or bear in this state. If you can't pull that back, maybe bowhunting isn't for you . You can always get a xbow if you must.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

I support more options. Dont compromise at this point.

During the crossbow effort, which I was with, the DNR took the ball to prevent a vote in the legislature, by offering legalization, They then attached a bunch of B.S. restrictions on crossbows, one of which is still in effect. 

Remember the MUCC now owns the DNR/NRC. Their favored affiliate (after QDMA) is the Michigan bow hunters association. They will go to absurd links to screw you. It will get dirty, they will throw lies, fake data, and outrageous predictions. confront them with facts.

Your far better off to keep it in the capital building. Good luck, hopefully we will be able to try them in the future. The crossbow effort lasted 2 years.

Sent from my SM-S367VL using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

So what's the difference between an "air bow" and a crossbow? Accuracy has got to be the same... so what's the practical difference when it comes to shooting a deer?

I dont care what happens with it to be honest... at the rate we are losing hunters, advantages will help maintain control of the herd.


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

I really see no practical difference between these airbows and my son’s Ravin crossbow. Probably will not be a popular opinion, but they might as well be legal since crossbows already are. They are both precocked shoulder mounted weapons that sling arrows for projectiles. The only difference is how the energy is stored in the weapon.

The technology of the already legal weapons will continue to advance, and they will still be legal. At some point the technology will be there to fling 750 grain bolts at just over 1000 FPS with minimal cocking effort. That will probably be the limit as any faster and stabilization of the bolt will become problematic.


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

UpNorthAirGunner said:


> I know this will make some of you come unglued - but here it is anyway:
> 
> So I have been advocating for this rule change now for a few years and have done multiple DNR demos of this technology. Michigan HB 4332 would allow arrows / bolts to be used as an approved projectile and method of take for disabled hunters in the archery season and an approved projectile in the rest of the seasons for all hunters. Read full bill here: http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2019-HB-4332
> 
> ...


*Archery* is the art, sport, practice, or skill of using a bow to shoot an arrow.

Bows may be broadly split into two categories: those drawn by pulling the string directly and those that use a mechanism to pull the string.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archery#Types_of_bows

Wikipedia says air-bows are good.

Good luck this season everyone!


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

jatc said:


> I really see no practical difference between these airbows and my son’s Ravin crossbow. Probably will not be a popular opinion, but they might as well be legal since crossbows already are. They are both precocked shoulder mounted weapons that sling arrows for projectiles. The only difference is how the energy is stored in the weapon.


Exactly.


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

Sounds like a new quiet poachers toy. I know just another one who's against progress but where I live poachers are here year round and quiet means less chance of getting caught. I know a few people who really like the new shorter now crossbows because they are easier to shoot from inside a vehicle.


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## MossyHorns (Apr 14, 2011)

What's next? Allowing firearms during the archery season just to keep a couple of hunters interested in hunting deer? Too many crybabies threatening to quit if they don't get their way.


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## Hauptmann6 (Oct 19, 2012)

Airbow. Sounds alot like an air rifle to me. If ya want to use them, use them during firearm season. Bow = device that launches an arrow with the power provided with a bow/string. 

And stop with the everything for the disabled vet crap. It's jumped the shark hardcore.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

C20chris said:


> I have a different take on this (and crossbows) instead of "yes" or "no". I believe a portion of the season should be left for people who actually have to draw their equipment back while a deer is standing there and correctly gauge the distance (that is the challenge isn't it?). Lets say - the month of October.
> 
> Then from Nov 1-14 it is open for crossbows and airbows. This would encourage individuals to own both (more revenue for shops/manufacturers) to take advantage of the added range and stealth of a crossbow/airbow.
> 
> December, could again be open to all types as not many people are hunting with arrows of any kind this time of the year.


I like your idea...but i would say give x bows oct and ban them in nov. Just give regular bow hunters the rut.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Petronius said:


> I might agree with you on the bow only portion of the season, if it would be only for traditional long bows and recurves.


I wouldnt be against that either


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## HTC (Oct 6, 2005)

Martin Looker said:


> Sounds like a new quiet poachers toy. I know just another one who's against progress but where I live poachers are here year round and quiet means less chance of getting caught. I know a few people who really like the new shorter now crossbows because they are easier to shoot from inside a vehicle.


Same point was brought up about legalizing suppressors during firearm season. Whether or not an airbow is legal during archery season is the issue. A poacher doesn't care about seasons or legal methods of take, so they could be using them now. The question before us is for the people willing to obey the law in the first place.


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## Janehal (May 1, 2003)

Mo-Jo Duck decoys, Fox Pro Callers, running bear with dogs, Etc...Etc...Etc. We are losing people in all the outdoor sports, and the last thing we need is bickering in the ranks. We need to support each other whether we use those methods or not. There are enough people slamming our ways in the outdoors, we don't need it from within......................


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## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

It sure is a "cool" looking weapon. If it is legalized for handicap hunts, it WILL be legalized for all shortly thereafter. You have to accept that because the precedent has already been set with crossbow hunting. I seriously doubt that it would negatively affect the deer herd size, though. We need more hunters. Maybe this would get some old timers back out there spending and hunting that just don't want to crank a crossbow. I suppose the counter argument is that they can just shoot a rifle during firearm season!

I think that the point of early archery season is that it's not supposed to be for everyone. It's supposed to be more challenging and that's why archers get an extended season. 

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## Bucman (Jun 29, 2016)

Every thread seems to go the same. Gets really old


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Can somebody at least identify the difference between an air bow and crossbow when it comes to killing a deer?

I'm not about to buy an airbow even if made legal, but I just dont see the difference. The only thing I see is folks still ticked about xbows.


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

They can use them in the April deer season we will no doubt have some day!


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## Lund Explorer (Jan 23, 2011)

To each their own, but I'll save my money until the auto-loading version comes along.


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## Wolverick (Dec 11, 2008)

When I first saw the air-bow I thought "Oh crap, there goes the neighborhood!" As a crossbow user I think air-bows should be allowed during gun season only. They do not have a string so are NOT bows no matter what they call them, they are a gun that shoots arrows. The loss of hunters in not due to a lack of choices in weaponry so that point is off base.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

These things have been around forever. Its called a harpoon not a bow. We never allowed harpoons in the past so I dont see the reason to now. Just because you take a harpoon gun and change ammo to a bolt it doesnt make it a bow. If you want to make harpoons legal during firearm season I have no issue with it.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

sureshot006 said:


> Can somebody at least identify the difference between an air bow and crossbow when it comes to killing a deer?
> 
> I'm not about to buy an airbow even if made legal, but I just dont see the difference. The only thing I see is folks still ticked about xbows.


Bueller? Bueller?

What's the difference for killing a deer? Tree limb clearance?


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

sureshot006 said:


> Bueller? Bueller?
> 
> What's the difference for killing a deer? Tree limb clearance?


So i just watched the link in the original post. His videos explains the ease of use over a crossbow. He talks about how cumbersome a crossbow can be to cock and disabled people struggle to do so. The air bow is as simple as sliding a bolt into a barrel and firing. 

I borrowed a crossbow for one weekend hunt when my verticle bow broke a shim in the limb pocket and I was waiting for parts. The first day on stand i was using a climber stand. I got up the tree and got situated and drug my bow up the tree. Pulled up the crossbow and realized i didnt cock it before climbing. The design of the cocking mechanism had you put one foot in a metal bracket and hook two hooks on a string that had two handles. The strings were in a retractable unit in the crossbow stock. You could not sit in the seat of my stand and cock the thing. The design of the stand didnt allow clearance. I had to descend down the tree to cock it and then climb back up. I found the cross bowto be heavy and hard to move around. Trying to put it on a bow holder and pick it up to maneuver around when you saw a deer seemed 5 times harder than a bow. I didnt like holding it for hours. For a tree stand hunter i thought it really sucked. 

The design of the "air bow" is as simple as pretty much any single shot gun. Just a more limited range and quieter than a bow.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

DirtySteve said:


> So i just watched the link in the original post. His videos explains the ease of use over a crossbow. He talks about how cumbersome a crossbow can be to cock and disabled people struggle to do so. The air bow is as simple as sliding a bolt into a barrel and firing.
> 
> I borrowed a crossbow for one weekend hunt when my verticle bow broke a shim in the limb pocket and I was waiting for parts. The first day on stand i was using a climber stand. I got up the tree and got situated and drug my bow up the tree. Pulled up the crossbow and realized i didnt cock it before climbing. The design of the cocking mechanism had you put one foot in a metal bracket and hook two hooks on a string that had two handles. The strings were in a retractable unit in the crossbow stock. You could not sit in the seat of my stand and cock the thing. The design of the stand didnt allow clearance. I had to descend down the tree to cock it and then climb back up. I found the cross bowto be heavy and hard to move around. Trying to put it on a bow holder and pick it up to maneuver around when you saw a deer seemed 5 times harder than a bow. I didnt like holding it for hours. For a tree stand hunter i thought it really sucked.
> 
> The design of the "air bow" is as simple as pretty much any single shot gun. Just a more limited range and quieter than a bow.


Thanks.

Many crossbows are cranked to cock, and some of the better ones are very narrow. The Ravin can even be disarmed without shooting. I would assume an air bow would be quite heavy as well since they have a pressurized air cylinder. The only practical difference I see here is a couple inches width, which in certain situations could be bad (shots tight to a tree, in any direction). The limbs of a xbow snap wider on the shot so hitting on a branch or whatever could cause the stock to make you see stars.

I can see reloading the airbow being an advantage over the crank to cock crossbow simply for speed. Not that we should really need a 2nd shot.

I cant comment on the noise. Xbows are pretty loud. Way louder than a vertical bow. But from the limited amount I watched of the video, it appeared the airbow was louder than both.


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## MossyHorns (Apr 14, 2011)

sureshot006 said:


> I would assume an air bow would be quite heavy as well since they have a pressurized air cylinder.


The weight of the Benjamin Airbow is 7 lbs, which is comparable to a crossbow. The big difference is where the weight is located. Crossbows are very forward heavy, but the airbow is more balanced like a rifle.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

sureshot006 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Many crossbows are cranked to cock, and some of the better ones are very narrow. The Ravin can even be disarmed without shooting. I would assume an air bow would be quite heavy as well since they have a pressurized air cylinder. The only practical difference I see here is a couple inches width, which in certain situations could be bad (shots tight to a tree, in any direction). The limbs of a xbow snap wider on the shot so hitting on a branch or whatever could cause the stock to make you see stars.
> 
> ...


Yeah i guess I wouldnt know on noise either since i havent shot an airbow. 

I dont see an issue at all allowing these for disabled hunters if it can get them in the field easier than a xbow. The harvest numbers arent affected by the amount of animals disabled hunters take. 

If they start talking archery season i think we have to draw a line somewhere. We have an extremely long season without breaks. The seasons were set at a time when even traditional bows were far less affective than today. There were far fewer archery hunters as well. At some point you have to limit what will be allowed in an archery season. To me these have nothing to do with archery. I would hate to start allowing methods of take that might affect the season limits in the future. 

As others have said there are more choices of weaponry than ever for hunting deer. If this is something that really excites a guy to try they can have it it in the firearms season. Wouldnt have an issue with that.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

DirtySteve said:


> Yeah i guess I wouldnt know on noise either since i havent shot an airbow.
> 
> I dont see an issue at all allowing these for disabled hunters if it can get them in the field easier than a xbow. The harvest numbers arent affected by the amount of animals disabled hunters take.
> 
> ...


Keep reducing the number of hunters and trying to manage herd for spread of disease... at some point anything that increases harvest will probably be fair game. Except the gun from da thirty point buck.


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## miruss (Apr 18, 2003)

DirtySteve said:


> The seasons were set at a time when even traditional bows were far less affective than today.


LMAO I agree with that one ! The people bitching about this need to take a look at what ARCHERY season was when first started ! Do you really think when archery first started they and a clue on what it would become ? Let's see what people are using now what bows with 85% let off or more,sights, stabilizers, carbon arrows,releases. Did i miss anything? I love hearing people say how hard it is to shoot these and they NEED to practice if you can't pick up one of these bows and be dialed in with killing shots at 20 yds within 15 min you need a new HOBBY!


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