# what age to start using e collar?



## sadworld (Aug 4, 2003)

i got my new tri tronics sport 65 e collar a couple weeks ago but have not used it yet for 2 reasons: it's huge on my pup and also i wasn't sure what the appropriate age was to start using it on him. he's 4 mos old now and even though i haven't tried it on i still think it looks WAY big for him... what is a good age to start using the collar?


----------



## rachswid (Nov 26, 2004)

allright ,good question they way I do it is at about the time I start serious training I start with a dummy collar on all the time to get the pup used to the weight and feel of the collar, then I get the dog responding to the commands I am teaching with out ever using the e- collar, when and only when the dog knows the commands will I introduce the e-collar with mild stimulation, at what age-it varies from dog to dog but I would say anywhere from 7 months to a year or after the dog is mentally ready for training and you are going to make the dog obey, do not use it too early you can ruin a good pup by destroying its williness to train, at this stage of the game its all about making that dog want to go out, have fun, chase birds, retrieve, and most importantly please you, with absolutly know pressure if you do this you will not have to worry about destroying the dogs drive later when you enter serious training mode, so basically you start with the e-collar when the dog is ready, not you, you will reap the rewards later.


----------



## bucknduck (Nov 7, 2003)

My lab started wearing his collar after he was 6 months old and understood the commands. The collar he would wear during training classes included a small bell and when he put this collar on he knew it was time to get outside and have some fun training. When i switched over to the e collar after 6 months, I put that same bell on his e collar. So now when i take out the e collar, he knows that we are going hunting and is extremely excited and ready to go.


----------



## deerslayer#1 (Nov 8, 2004)

That collar should have come with a video, or book!! If not, read all the info you can before you ever use it on your dog. 4 months is way to soon, IMHO, the things a 4 month old pup needs to learn should not require a e-collar. At this age one of those pinch collars, work great to teach a pup to sit, stay, come, heel. The best e collars have worked for me is when the dog is in its flight stage, really gets thier attention then!! They should know thier commands by then, and the collar will definately reinforce. It is good for your pup to get used to his collar by wearing it, at this age, because they get very collar wise, very very quick. Be carefull though, make sure it is tight like the instructions say because those collars are expensive, to replace. If it can come off , your dog will get it off. Dont leave it out so your dog can get to it either, because they will destroy it. Good luck!!


----------



## ddolph (Dec 12, 2003)

rachswid said:


> allright ,good question they way I do it is at about the time I start serious training I start with a dummy collar on all the time to get the pup used to the weight and feel of the collar, then I get the dog responding to the commands I am teaching with out ever using the e- collar, when and only when the dog knows the commands will I introduce the e-collar with mild stimulation, at what age-it varies from dog to dog but I would say anywhere from 7 months to a year or after the dog is mentally ready for training and you are going to make the dog obey, do not use it too early you can ruin a good pup by destroying its williness to train, at this stage of the game its all about making that dog want to go out, have fun, chase birds, retrieve, and most importantly please you, with absolutly know pressure if you do this you will not have to worry about destroying the dogs drive later when you enter serious training mode, so basically you start with the e-collar when the dog is ready, not you, you will reap the rewards later.


Excellant advice


----------



## fdunford (Aug 14, 2004)

From talking to trainers such as Charlie Lindlade, I would advise you to be real carful using an e-collar on an young pointing dog. Many problems have been started by others in their zeal to train a good hunting dog. The best advice I can give is to get an idea of how and when to use it, and then stick to those as your operating parameters.

One general rule is never, never over birds with a young pointing dog. Be careful not to use it out of frustration or anger either.


----------



## timbergsp (Feb 10, 2003)

1 year old AND only after knowing the commands 

DO NOT USE a fake collar either use the real one or dont use one

Scott


----------



## rachswid (Nov 26, 2004)

timbergsp said:


> DO NOT USE a fake collar either use the real one or dont use one
> 
> Scott


aah ok so your reasoning is what... it is not wise to use a dummy collar... might as well use a real one and shock the dog before it knows anything...turn it all the way up too...

honestly though this statement makes no sense and should be discarded...i mean whats the difference of using a fake that is a copy of the real thing just to get the dog used to the feel of one, put it on before you take the dog out to chase birds and it will associate the collar with fun things it does not matter if the collar is black, green, purple or red at this point in a young dogs life you should never shock the dog so you do not need to use a real collar, and when you are teaching the dog commands it is not unwise to have an imitation collar on so the dog does not become *collarwise*.

Dale


----------



## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

I always get my 4 or 5 month old pups wearing the collar, I just don't turn it on. I agree that dogs can become collar wise awfully quick if your not carefull. As far as an age goes it all depends on the dog and how well they know the commands. I've started as early as 4 1/2 months on a real smart hard dog, and I've gone as long as 8 months on a real smart soft dog. The biggest key is don't skip the steps in training if the dog doesn't know the commands all the electricity in the world is going to help it learn. If the dog is having fun and learning the commands and obeying you don't be in a big hurry to turn on the juice. Remember lots of good dogs never use them and don't need them.


----------



## timbergsp (Feb 10, 2003)

BIGSP said:


> I always get my 4 or 5 month old pups wearing the collar, I



There you go DONT TURN IT ON or just TELL YOUR SELF I WILL NOT USE IT THIS AFTERNOON

OR wait, what about put a fake one on a dog and let it BUMP a deer or somthing and stand back and say '' MAN WISH I HAD THE REMOTE TO THAT BABY'' 

I figured most people have a bit of common since not to shock the pup on high

wait what you forgot to quote is



> 1 year old AND only after knowing the commands


once my dogs get big enough they are ran with a collar and they NEVER GET collar wise EVER 

I dont ever remember telling any one to SHOCK THERE DOG ON HIGH 

PLEASE do not attack me I didnt come out and say you was wrong you should not do it to me

I gave my 2 cents you gave yours 

MY reasoning is its better to have it on when you really need it then wish you would of put it on and it be to late

ask my friend Nick Miller whos dog was hit in the road last week after chasing a deer the fake collar did him NO GOOD 

just becuase its on a dogs neck DONT mean you most use it in less of course your dog never mind

I would say your statment makes LESS since then mine but what do I know right one thing you most remember I HAVE MY opion you have yours this guy asked us what our opions are I told him mine 

THATS MY 2 CENTS

Scott


----------



## omega58 (Sep 3, 2003)

rachswid said:


> aah ok so your reasoning is what... it is not wise to use a dummy collar... might as well use a real one and shock the dog before it knows anything...turn it all the way up too...
> 
> honestly though this statement makes no sense and should be discarded...i mean whats the difference of using a fake that is a copy of the real thing just to get the dog used to the feel of one, put it on before you take the dog out to chase birds and it will associate the collar with fun things it does not matter if the collar is black, green, purple or red at this point in a young dogs life you should never shock the dog so you do not need to use a real collar, and when you are teaching the dog commands it is not unwise to have an imitation collar on so the dog does not become *collarwise*.
> 
> Dale


I think he is meaning that there is no need to use a dummy collar and to just use the same collar and keep it turned off. . that's what I did anyway. . .it's what the video and book suggest. I had mine wear it during play time, instruction time, a couple of times hunting, anything fun. 

Oh yeah, and another piece of advice, try it on yourself first. . but no need to put it on your neck like the Bud Light commercials.  

Sadworld, 
Is your collar the 65sbpr, beeper/ecollar? That's what I have. . . it's a great collar.


----------



## Mickey Finn (Jan 21, 2005)

I was told to put the collar on when you start taking the pup out were he or she will have fun. then they will see the collar as part of the fun. and of course let them wear it a good while before you use it for corrections. this should help to prevent collar wise dogs at least for a while. it seemed to work for my drahthaar. when i fire up the collar it makes a distinct sound and he always comes running and will put his neck in it. i am very happy with the results.


----------



## FieldWalker (Oct 21, 2003)

i haven't read anyone else's responces.... use it as soon as the dog understands the command your training it on...


----------



## sadworld (Aug 4, 2003)

> Sadworld,
> Is your collar the 65sbpr, beeper/ecollar? That's what I have. . . it's a great collar.


yep, that's the one i have too... good to hear you like yours.....


----------



## deerslayer#1 (Nov 8, 2004)

Dummy collars will just confuse the dog. If you let him get away with things with the dummy on, then put the real thing on him and make corrections for the same actions, that will be a big problem. Some people use the dummy before actually useing stimulation, but once I start, the real one doesnt come off. 
I had a chessie trained by Sheldon Twer( one of the best, check his web site) and I tell you with the collar on, that dog was incredible, without it he would go back to his chessie ways. On a hunt in California somehow I forgot his e collar, I didn't want my dog to be an embarresment in the field, so I duct taped a battery to his leather collar, (I dont think anyone noticed?) and 
he thought it was real. So with that, I guess I could see a good reason to have a dummy collar around. And I have used mine on high. Stops them in thier tracks, actually makes them flip and hit the ground. That is what its for. Had a few dogs chase birds toward a road, and they were trained to actually run through the stimulation at certain parts of thier training, but on high they will STOP very quick. Thats why they have low/high. Some animals have short hair, doesnt take much. My chessies have thick curly coats, takes a little more. Dont be scared to put it on high to save your dog from injury, I guess is what I'm trying to say. First thing I teach mine with the e collar, is KENNEL. I stand them in front of the kennel,, I stimulate them (just high enough to get them to react usually drop their tail a little) while holding the button not letting go, I say kennel, I dont let off till the dog is all the way in. Teaches them very quick that if they do like they are told, it will stop. They all ready know the kennel is a safe place to be, because they have spent so much time in it up to this training stage. Thats just how I start them, every one has their own way.


----------



## ddolph (Dec 12, 2003)

timbergsp said:


> MY reasoning is its better to have it on when you really need it then wish you would of put it on and it be to late
> 
> ask my friend Nick Miller whos dog was hit in the road last week after chasing a deer the fake collar did him NO GOOD
> 
> Scott


Thanks for the advice, I would have used the regular collar but not have turned it on thinking I would not shock a pup! Not thinking that a emergency shock just might prevent a tragedy from an unplanned uncontroled chase!
Thanks again Scott


----------



## timbergsp (Feb 10, 2003)

deerslayer#1 said:


> Dummy collars will just confuse the dog. If you let him get away with things with the dummy on, then put the real thing on him and make corrections for the same actions, that will be a big problem. Some people use the dummy before actually useing stimulation, but once I start, the real one doesnt come off.
> I had a chessie trained by Sheldon Twer( one of the best, check his web site) and I tell you with the collar on, that dog was incredible, without it he would go back to his chessie ways. On a hunt in California somehow I forgot his e collar, I didn't want my dog to be an embarresment in the field, so I duct taped a battery to his leather collar, (I dont think anyone noticed?) and
> he thought it was real. So with that, I guess I could see a good reason to have a dummy collar around. And I have used mine on high. Stops them in thier tracks, actually makes them flip and hit the ground. That is what its for. Had a few dogs chase birds toward a road, and they were trained to actually run through the stimulation at certain parts of thier training, but on high they will STOP very quick. Thats why they have low/high. Some animals have short hair, doesnt take much. My chessies have thick curly coats, takes a little more. Dont be scared to put it on high to save your dog from injury, I guess is what I'm trying to say. First thing I teach mine with the e collar, is KENNEL. I stand them in front of the kennel,, I stimulate them (just high enough to get them to react usually drop their tail a little) while holding the button not letting go, I say kennel, I dont let off till the dog is all the way in. Teaches them very quick that if they do like they are told, it will stop. They all ready know the kennel is a safe place to be, because they have spent so much time in it up to this training stage. Thats just how I start them, every one has their own way.




THANK YOU 

I tell my dogs to kennel its all at once they all hit there doors LOL




ddolph said:


> Thanks for the advice, I would have used the regular collar but not have turned it on thinking I would not shock a pup! Not thinking that a emergency shock just might prevent a tragedy from an unplanned uncontroled chase!
> Thanks again Scott



I never ever run my dogs with out a collar in less they are 6 months or younger I may not USE it but its there just in case THE #1 most dangerous thing a dog can do is chase deer

1 shot by some dumb @#$%#
2 hit in the road
3 gets lost
4 shot by some dumb @#$%#
5 learns to love it


Scott


----------



## rachswid (Nov 26, 2004)

when I start formal training it is in a controlled enviroment first, with a check cord then with a check cord and e- collar, than just the e-collar, I never, ever train a young dog by the road with out a check cord, or have had enough pigeons over it so as the dog has learned to give up the chase, deer no reason to have a young dog in this enviroment with out first being collar conditioned to the come command (i guess this hinges on your training ground) but I have always felt and will always feel you only gradually add pressure to a young dog-add the temptation for it to make a mistake as training progresses not go out and throw everything at it in a short period of time.

As far as using a real collar(off) or a dummy collar, obviously there is no differance but it was said DO NOT USE a fake collar either use the real one or dont use one, I do not know how much your collars cost but in the last 3 years I have had 3 sets of e-collars returning two (thank you cabelas) the dogs do put a good beating on them and they are subject to water, weeds, briers, and dirt and do get ruined so if you want to put a $300 or more collar on a dog or a $20 dummy go head, and if you have say two or more dogs than you can leave the dummy on the young dog well the other dog goes with the real deal, or for people who are ready to start training but can not afford to spend a couple hundred dollars at that time for a e-collar the dummy collar works great (battery method works as well)

*Timbergsp*

sorrry that you took this personally I thought that it was a bold commment- DO NOT USE a fake collar either use the real one or dont use one and sure as heck wanted to know why you thought this seemed a little to open and shut for me. thanks for taking the time to explain.


----------



## coverdog (Dec 7, 2003)

The thinking was a dummy collar is used to get the dog accustomed to a collar and to keep him from getting collar wise. It was meant to be used in an environment where it doesn't need to be used. Such as putting it on while in the yard or kennel, not training or hunting situations. The idea is that the dog to wears it a lot and gets used to it without being shocked. After some time you put the real one on and start using it in training. When he gets a bump from it later it is hoped he doesn't tie it to the collar. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. That said, I don't have a dummy collar my self and usually just use the real ones and don't shock them while they are young. I haven't had a tri-tronics fail yet due to use so I never have been concerned about using a dummy to keep from damaging a real one.

If you have a dog that reacts differently with a collar on that with no collar the dog is definetly collar wise. Not the best situation unless you want to have to constantly have a collar on the dog every time you take him out. I use a bell when I am are running my dogs at all times and just put it on with the collar if I use one that day. My dogs act no differently with a collar or without and don't believe they are collar wise at all. But then a rarely bump them with it any how and is used more for emergencies (deer and off game) if needed and not much for training after the dogs know what I want out of them. My 2cents.


----------



## timbergsp (Feb 10, 2003)

rachswid said:


> when I start formal training it is in a controlled enviroment first, with a check cord then with a check cord and e- collar, than just the e-collar, I never, ever train a young dog by the road with out a check cord, or have had enough pigeons over it so as the dog has learned to give up the chase, deer no reason to have a young dog in this enviroment with out first being collar conditioned to the come command (i guess this hinges on your training ground) but I have always felt and will always feel you only gradually add pressure to a young dog-add the temptation for it to make a mistake as training progresses not go out and throw everything at it in a short period of time.



you are correct here dogs need presure added gradually I am not out to shock a dogs neck off 

My training ground is close to the road IN FACT its even fenced in BUT deer jump fences and SO do shorthairs, setters and pointers my beagles they just go threw the fence. ON the training ground where I train its got alot of deer BUT wait every where in branch county does 




> I do not know how much your collars cost but in the last 3 years I have had 3 sets of e-collars returning two (thank you cabelas)



next time save your mony spend alittle more BUY a tri-tronics so you dont need to keep buying collars

Scott


----------

