# Killing Mature Bucks in Michigan



## hplayer13 (Nov 3, 2008)

To all you killers out there that consistently kill 3.5yo and older bucks, could you guys share things you do that set you apart from the typical hunter. 

Whether it’s access, being patient/aggressive, giving the deer the ideal wind with just a slight quarter so you can get away with it...

What are the biggest things that you do to be consistent that are game changers once you learned them?


----------



## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

I can say lots of scouting, and having a bunch of places to hunt are key when hunting public land. Oh yea and Luck.


----------



## Bucman (Jun 29, 2016)

1-Location,Location,Location
2-Wind
3-Persistence


----------



## Ford 800 (Jan 5, 2010)

Lots of bait.

LOL, couldn't pass it up!


----------



## Joe Archer (Mar 29, 2000)

How do you define "Consistently". I have encounters with older bucks most years, but probably only average one 3.5 or older every 5 years or so; somewhere around 7 in the past 35 years primarily on state land.
For me its simple. I spend as much time in the woods during rut as physically possible.
<----<<<


----------



## bigal06 (Jul 11, 2010)

For us it has been all about the habitat. We run cameras to see what is around and who shows up the most in the daylight. But other than that we only hunt the edges of the property until the end of October. Access and egress go along ways as well.


----------



## Tom (mich) (Jan 17, 2003)

This is not as complicated as it seems. Here's a little known secret, the overwhelming majority of hunters that consistently take 3.5+ y/o bucks...……..hunt areas where bucks are allowed to reach that age.

Case in point, I live and hunt on 75 acres in Shiawassee county. Last year, I saw one buck that I would guess was at least 3.5. My neighbors shoot everything.

For ten straight years from 1997-2017 I hunted the first ten days of November in Kansas. With few exceptions mostly due to weather, I saw bucks in that age range every single day.


----------



## hplayer13 (Nov 3, 2008)

Bucman said:


> 1-Location,Location,Location
> 2-Wind
> 3-Persistence


1. Explain further. How do you determine if it’s a “good” spot when you pick up a new property? Do you sit lots of observation stands before you move in?

2. What types of winds are you hunting them on? A wind that’s basically blowing at them but just off? Any more insight on that?

3. Is there any one thing you have learned from the failures you’ve made? What’s most common failure?


----------



## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Hunt where 3-1/2 year old and older bucks exist.
Only hunt stands when conditions are right.
Hunt all day, if conditions change move locations.
If access is questionable without alerting deer get there early, that could mean 5:30am for an afternoon hunt.
Hunt ML season.
Don’t hunt near firearm stand locations prior to November 15th.
Don’t be afraid to hunt public land where few deer exist.


----------



## hplayer13 (Nov 3, 2008)

Tom (mich) said:


> This is not as complicated as it seems. Here's a little known secret, the overwhelming majority of hunters that consistently take 3.5+ y/o bucks...……..hunt areas where bucks are allowed to reach that age.
> 
> The end.


Even if you want to try and make it that simple, there’s still guys who hunt in areas where there are deer that age and older that don’t even know they are there because of poor access, overhunting, not hunting the wind, etc. But if you want to go that route, how do you determine when scouting an area if there is an eligible mature buck to even target and waste your time there?


----------



## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

Good question HPlayer. I too am looking forward to replies from some of the Big Boys here. There are many more successful hunters than myself on this forum but I am into the double digits on 3 and 4 year old Michigan Bucks. I guess these would be a few of my observations for success:

1. You have to learn to pass on the nice 2 year olds. If you fill your tags with 2 year olds, you won't kill many 3 or 4 year olds. And yes, I have killed a few 2 year olds which I thought were 3 year olds when I shot them. Stuff happens!

2. My own personal restriction on my second tag is that my second buck must be bigger than my first - and I am looking for a 3 or 4 year old for my first. I have actually passed up two 3 year olds because they weren't bigger than my first 3 or 4 year old that year. You will end up eating a lot of your second tags but as long as you still have a buck tag in your pocket you can be out there hunting for a more mature buck.

3. Do your absolute best to not allow a target buck to know he is being hunted. Easier said than done sometimes...especially if you start encroaching on his bedding area. This goes hand in hand with the first hunt charm. Each time you hunt a stand, your chances of tagging that mature buck are reduced.

4. Get away from the bait. Yes, you can kill a big buck over bait occasionally, but your chances are much better of harvesting mature bucks if you hunt elsewhere. Take a look at my signature at the bottom. I firmly agree with John Eberhardt on this issue. That is not to say that good food sources don't provide good hunting during the late season, cold temps and post rut periods - they do. But I firmly believe that good food plots or ag sources are far better than a bait pile.

5. Don't discount in-season scouting. Yes, most of your scouting should be done pre-season but that isn't to say that some low-impact scouting during the season can't pay off. I have had success by hunting "hang and hunt" stands when I happened to observe some hot sign during the season.

Looking forward to following this thread.


----------



## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

One thing I forgot to mention is to not fill your tag or tags in younger bucks even if that means having to tell your buddies you didn’t kill a buck that year. 

Does are made of meat too.


----------



## CDN1 (May 27, 2018)

The single biggest advantage if you are hunting mature bucks is TIME. 

The amount of time that a hunter has to hunt is typically the single biggest determining factor in harvesting a mature buck. This is provided you are not consistently bungling your opportunities


----------



## grapestomper (Jan 9, 2012)

You need to let the smaller ones go bye.


----------



## Sasquatch Lives (May 23, 2011)

I agree with everything said so far. I too average one every two to five years. Be prepared to eat a tag and let the small and medium size bucks walk. Hunt as much as you can during the rut.

I would rather take one big mature buck every few years than a small one or two every year.

Take a chance and hunt an unusual spot that has big buck sign, don't just hunt food sources where you always see a lot of deer.


----------



## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

Just reading about how to kill a older buck won't get it done. It takes the will and drive to do it. You have to really want it.Tons of time scouting, hunting and failures to learn to do it consistently. Like one famous guy says," if it was easy, everyone would do it ". And that's the truth. There are no short cuts ,get in the trenches and do it. Learn from your mistakes, You can't be afraid of failure. If you don't see one on that hunt, oh well think why and On to the next. 
You have to take everything you thought you knew about deer hunting and forget it. These are different animals then a 1.5 -2.5 bucks. They usually don't mess up.


----------



## Rowdy Bandit (Mar 22, 2016)

Good question and great stuff. "Thanks" to all those more experienced, in giving the time and the generosity especially to post thoughtful detailed knowledge.


----------



## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

hplayer13 said:


> Even if you want to try and make it that simple, there’s still guys who hunt in areas where there are deer that age and older that don’t even know they are there because of poor access, overhunting, not hunting the wind, etc. But if you want to go that route, how do you determine when scouting an area if there is an eligible mature buck to even target and waste your time there?


I'm not qualified to post here due to not being consistent.
It is a pattern I have broken a myriad of ways...

That said....Scouting can be done with cams in some areas. Timely info is a benefit.

When I scouted multiple sites year after year for decades , eligible targets left tracks.
Yes there were times a doe made the biggest ones.
But I will argue it does not take much to figure out what sex made what track when more evidence is added.

The Benoit's deserve more credit than I , but let's use a .270 round as an example at 3.340 in. Have an equivalent item to use and you can determine where the largest tracks exist.
Select your item in a manner that only exceptional size is noted and you have a start.
Depth of a walking track compared to others hints of greater weight.

IF you locate an exceptionally large doe keep track of her. An older buck will.

When a "good" buck track is noted ,look for a repeated route or pattern.
Scouting is hunting. You sort out repeated pattern and timing potential.
And with caution you can sort out the "ends" of a bucks routine outside the rut and under "normal" pressure.

Multiple sites with multiple desired individual targets helps.
Not hunting until the "site within the site" is pinpointed and the right conditions exist can be part of getting it right.
Having options of other sites to risk hunting under less than ideal conditions at helps blow off ambition pushing you too much , and getting patterned yourself on the better sites.

Or....Learn a site so well you can hunt it under varied conditions without getting caught or leaving evidence after you leave.
That means not being in the sweet spots sometimes. And having deer slip through.
And risking detection...

I have started on a large footed buck more than once from first cutting a track.
Knowing the areas mattered most.
Had I killed them all instead of blowing some good shot opportunities....I'd still not be consistent.
Like Joe , my average when I was on my game was locating a "mature" buck about every five years. That was scouting year round. Covering lots of ground on multiple sites.
And being re-conditioned to hunting , starting with small game from pre-scouting it time to after new years.

IF you have interest in older bucks , locate and follow their tracks around after season.
Then find them again in spring and start tracking them.
When near season scouting turns up a track (or cam pic) of one that interests you it will be easier to sort out his doins by recognizing his track. With re-conditioned eyes you can follow quite a ways under less than ideal conditions. That helps track wounded deer too..

IF you know the site/area and what older bucks usually do for a routine/cycle , and when they change to seek doe while doe are still un receptive ,and again for rut ,and the passing through routes ,and the site within your site if a buck passing through is checking doe where doe are most likely to be. Then it starts getting easier.

Where I hunt now the older(st) buck cuts across a spot few other deer do during pre-rut when bucks are just getting antsy about seeking. "warmin up" so to speak.
Other older bucks on other sites have done something similar.
Where they are coming from and going to and when and why is the answer.
Aside from destinations at ends of a route , they are crossing more normal routes /local traffic routes than if they just cut through the site on a/the current passing through route. Though they'll cross it too.

Circling a site with the circle around night time feeding can tell you what (for deer easier than smaller critters) went in and out where.
Knowing when and why means more.
Adding circles to ends of a known circle tells you more. You don't always need to walk them or have cams on them if others are doing so and networking with you on them.
But that means you have competition too. Competition can kill. You'll know if the now familiar track does not reoccur, that you need a fresh target on that site. Until it returns or if it does not.


----------



## Bomba (Jul 26, 2005)

Joe Archer said:


> How do you define "Consistently". I have encounters with older bucks most years, but probably only average one 3.5 or older every 5 years or so; somewhere around 7 in the past 35 years primarily on state land.
> For me its simple. I spend as much time in the woods during rut as physically possible.
> <----<<<


I wouldn't consider that consistent.


----------



## hplayer13 (Nov 3, 2008)

Bomba said:


> I wouldn't consider that consistent.


All the information is great. But yes I was referring to every year or maybe every other year. And I realize a 3.5 yo isn’t even a mature buck but in Michigan and certain spots it’s the highest in the food chain and that’s what I’m wanting is more knowledge on how to kill the most mature deer in the area


----------



## kdogger (Jan 10, 2005)

I’ve had great success with bait during the rut. Bait in 20 doe, and odds are a couple will be in heat. The bucks don’t usually come to the bait but they follow the hot doe.


----------



## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

Having good property that holds deer helps a bunch, restricting buck harvests helps a bunch, being careful not to over hunt your property helps a bunch. You don't really have to be a great hunter, but having great property helps a bunch.


----------



## Walt Donaldson (Feb 23, 2015)

Cakebaker sent me a DM, and told me to comment on this thread, I will do so at his request. Disclaimer: I am not nearly as qualified as others on this forum, and thank you for those who have offered some great insight already! Now, below are Walt's Top Ten Tips or WTTT.

1. Identify your goals, stick to those goals, don’t settle or let others influence your hunting.

2. Continue to learn, and study your hunting area (No, you don’t know everything). Identify habits of those hunting around you, how it impacts your hunting, and take advantage of it if possible.

3. PATIENCE. To stay out of the stand, and to stay IN the stand (All Day).

4. Don’t make excuses to hunt at times/places you shouldn’t. Example: “I’m just hunting the edge” or “I’m just hunting up front here, it won’t hurt anything.” Just understand that each time you hunt a property, you are alerting deer to your presence. 

5. Worrying too much about cameras, checking them too often. I understand they are a useful tool, they can also be hurting your chances if not used correctly. Obviously, the remote cameras eliminate virtually all the risks, and can give you a YUGE advantage (If you have them, you are ahead of the game already).

6. Stand location/height.

7. Like others have mentioned, you have to be willing to pass the 110”–120”ish bucks (every single time). Will the neighbor get them? VERY LIKELY. Will you maybe end up without a buck? PROBABLY. Can you live with those results, even as the season wears on, and you get burned out? SEE #1.

8. Scent control, habitat improvement, access/egress, weather conditions/patterns have all been thoroughly covered by others.

9. If you see a B1G1 on the neighbors, get out the saw and rev it up!

10. If it still doesn’t come together for you, ask Cakebaker!


----------



## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

Very good advice Walt - thanks for chiming in.


----------



## RF Pro (May 22, 2019)

Don't shoot them when they are young and hunt where 3.5+ yr old bucks exist.


----------



## Dish7 (Apr 2, 2017)

LabtechLewis said:


> Last year, I let two bucks walk without a shot attempt that would have been targets in previous years. Turns out, because of goals I had set, when I reflect on the totality of last season, *I think I feel better for having done so.*


It is very natural when you raise your personal bar, to wonder if, waffle, second guess or even backslide a bit. The thing I always tell people on this subject is "sometimes you just have to pull the trigger." Keep it enjoyable and satisfying. If you shoot one and are satisfied with it...awesome. If you walk up on it and it's just a "meh" as you shrug your shoulders, maybe you're ready.
I remember the exact little six pt that I backslid on many years ago. Made a bad shot. Turned into an all day affair ending with a follow up arrow. While relieved that I got him after the gut shot, all I could think was why I had shot in the first place. I had passed better bucks for two years at that point. Turned the corner for good then and there.
Sorry for my long posts lately. Positive deer hunting subjects....what a concept, lol.


----------



## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

Dish7 said:


> It is very natural when you raise your personal bar, to wonder if, waffle, second guess or even backslide a bit. The thing I always tell people on this subject is "sometimes you just have to pull the trigger." Keep it enjoyable and satisfying. If you shoot one and are satisfied with it...awesome. If you walk up on it and it's just a "meh" as you shrug your shoulders, maybe you're ready.
> I remember the exact little six pt that I backslid on many years ago. Made a bad shot. Turned into an all day affair ending with a follow up arrow. While relieved that I got him after the gut shot, all I could think was why I had shot in the first place. I had passed better bucks for two years at that point. Turned the corner for good then and there.
> Sorry for my long posts lately. Positive deer hunting subjects....what a concept, lol.


Excellent illustration of shaping or forming just what it is that defines you as a hunter Dish...and it molds very well with Walt's #1 top ten tips:

_*1. Identify your goals, stick to those goals, don’t settle or let others influence your hunting. *_Emphasis added to not allowing others to influence your hunting.

I succumbed to that trap many years back when I killed a deer that I really didn't want to kill because I let others tell me I was crazy for passing him up. He was a pretty nice 9 point with a forked G-2 tine. I thought he looked more like a 2 year old than a 3 year old and I passed him up twice during archery season. Later on in the waning days of the firearms season I still had not seen anything much bigger and I dropped the hammer on him and I immediately experienced what you described as:

*"If you walk up on it and it's just a "meh" as you shrug your shoulders, maybe you're ready."
*
As it turned out, he was a 3 year old but I still didn't feel any better about it, and to this day I have never allowed anyone else to influence what it is that I decide to shoot.
*


*


----------



## Joe Archer (Mar 29, 2000)

Wild Thing said:


> *"If you walk up on it and it's just a "meh" as you shrug your shoulders, maybe you're ready."*


If I ever walk up to an animal and it's just a "meh" as I shrug my shoulders, it will probably be time for me to quit hunting. 
I don't care what it is that I have decided to take the life of. When I walk up on a deer that I have just killed, for me it will ALWAYS be a prolonged moment of respect and reverence.
<----<<<


----------



## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

Joe Archer said:


> If I ever walk up to an animal and it's just a "meh" as I shrug my shoulders, it will probably be time for me to quit hunting.
> I don't care what it is that I have decided to take the life of. When I walk up on a deer that I have just killed, for me it will ALWAYS be a prolonged moment of respect and reverence.
> <----<<<


And it has always been that way for me as well Joe, except in that particular case - and it wasn't because the deer wasn't due its respect, it was because I didn't respect my decision to kill it (or not kill it) in the first place. I was disappointed in myself - not the deer.

Very much agree with your opinion. I always give thanks for the blessing of being able to harvest the deer - buck or doe. I guess I could have explained that better in my original post.


----------



## Dish7 (Apr 2, 2017)

Joe Archer said:


> If I ever walk up to an animal and it's just a "meh" as I shrug my shoulders, it will probably be time for me to quit hunting.
> I don't care what it is that I have decided to take the life of. When I walk up on a deer that I have just killed, for me it will ALWAYS be a prolonged moment of respect and reverence.
> <----<<<


Missed the point completely. It was about personal goals not disrespecting the animal. Somehow not surprised.


----------



## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

I agree with Waif, tracks are the trick and with Dish7 about turning that corner. You might eat a few tags BUT you are now what I call HUNTING. Anything over 3" in length and you start looking. Leave the Does alone, they are your live decoys. A few years back had a giant one that would bed down under the same White Pine. After January the crap was so thick in that spot you wonder why he did not get up to sxxt. Guess that is why he was so big besides being nocturnal. I did not find that tree till after the close of all seasons. 110 yards away from were my main gun blind is.


----------



## mattawanhunter (Oct 30, 2011)

Man this place is really starting to heat up!

Must be deer season is right around the corner 

Thank God been one heck of a year I can't wait to get out into the woods!


----------



## mattawanhunter (Oct 30, 2011)




----------



## mattawanhunter (Oct 30, 2011)

yeah I know not Michigan but northern Minnesota almost to the Canadian border is real similar to the areas that we hunt in the upper peninsula, no food plots, nof fields, big woods hunting, public land!

And yes he has killed several big bucks he and his family!


----------



## Walt Donaldson (Feb 23, 2015)

Dish7 said:


> It is very natural when you raise your personal bar, to wonder if, waffle, second guess or even backslide a bit. The thing I always tell people on this subject is "sometimes you just have to pull the trigger." Keep it enjoyable and satisfying. If you shoot one and are satisfied with it...awesome. If you walk up on it and it's just a "meh" as you shrug your shoulders, maybe you're ready.
> I remember the exact little six pt that I backslid on many years ago. Made a bad shot. Turned into an all day affair ending with a follow up arrow. While relieved that I got him after the gut shot, all I could think was why I had shot in the first place. I had passed better bucks for two years at that point. Turned the corner for good then and there.
> Sorry for my long posts lately. Positive deer hunting subjects....what a concept, lol.


As Wild Thing stated above, great illustration! This describes exactly what happened with me as well, and no, it had nothing to do with disrespecting the animal in any way, that's hogwash. I shot a deer the size of several I had passed in prior years, that was it for me and raised the bar after that.

No need to apologize for great posts Dish!


----------



## Walt Donaldson (Feb 23, 2015)

Joe Archer said:


> If I ever walk up to an animal and it's just a "meh" as I shrug my shoulders, it will probably be time for me to quit hunting.
> I don't care what it is that I have decided to take the life of. When I walk up on a deer that I have just killed, for me it will ALWAYS be a prolonged moment of respect and reverence.
> <----<<<


Not everyone has the same goals, and none of the posts in this thread have indicated a disrespect for the animal. Progressing as a hunter has different meanings for everyone. As long as the hunter is staying within the moral/ethical guidelines of the sport, then they define those terms, nobody else.


----------



## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

It’s a money thing.

In today’s day and age it’s $200,000 or more, to create for yourself the parcel of land that regularly draws in/ or holds, 3.5-year-old dear.

You are increasing your odds by decreasing your competition with neighbors.

I only posted anything about this, because I think it’s somewhat disingenuous for a landowner to tout the number of big deer that they shoot, when the bulk of their success comes from how much money that they have.

Or more politely, their ability to reduce competition from adjacent land owners.

Time makes big deer. If you own the place they live, you supply the time.
And that costs.


----------



## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Dish7 said:


> Missed the point completely. It was about personal goals not disrespecting the animal. Somehow not surprised.


I'm guessing he's just confirming any deer you/we kill is as good as the next or previous. Per having been a deer.
Vs. remorse regarding "goal" commitment undershot.

As far as a "shrug" ...It's all about the timing , and it varies for some.
W.T. shrugged after a kill. Confirming (in hindsite) that he would rather have stuck with the shrug being before/instead of taking the shot.
Varied curves of commitment.
But not so different once recognized. I can respect both views. Probably due to having combined them myself. But , it is the personal opinion of the guy holding the knife too.
I can't say what's right or wrong when just holding a leg on someone else's legal kill when they call what's fair game on the site....

Not a shrug by me till years later, but my first snowshoe hare was with a shotgun at about four paces....
It was suggested that if another was encountered as close , to take a step or two backwards before shooting.
Which is better than I might have said if an onlooker , which would likely have been , "don't be wasting no more meat".
I sure wanted to kill a hare before popping that one though ...:lol:


----------



## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

It's time for me to raise the bar because my wife keeps telling me to stop shooting the same size deer then waste 400 dollars to get it mounted. Now I have no choice but to aim for 140"-160" class of bucks like Waltzilla.


----------



## HUBBHUNTER (Aug 8, 2007)

cakebaker said:


> It's time for me to raise the bar because my wife keeps telling me to stop shooting the same size deer then waste 400 dollars to get it mounted. Now I have no choice but to aim for 140"-160" class of bucks like Waltzilla.


It's not the hunter it's the property.


----------



## jr28schalm (Mar 16, 2006)

HUBBHUNTER said:


> It's not the hunter it's the property.


No its the money.. lol..


----------



## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

jr28schalm said:


> No its the money.. lol..


What , it ain't the wife? 
(Just kidding (?) cakebaker.)


----------



## cakebaker (Sep 13, 2011)

jr28schalm said:


> No its the money.. lol..


It's the bow.


----------



## Walt Donaldson (Feb 23, 2015)

jr28schalm said:


> No its the money.. lol..


Strong rap lyrics here, we may also have enough content to shoot a video.


----------



## jr28schalm (Mar 16, 2006)

Walt Donaldson said:


> Strong rap lyrics here, we may also have enough content to shoot a video.


Big clouds of smoke and feet getting rubbed out


----------



## jr28schalm (Mar 16, 2006)

sniper said:


> Lmao! That’s spectacular!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


We might be teammates for a day..lol


----------



## Groundsize (Aug 29, 2006)

UnknwnBanditRowdyTucoRojo said:


> Could you clarify that please? I assume you mean 'If I can't...'. Does that mean forested areas are always thinned enough to see through?


The goal is to have the majority of my land as bedding. I like a lot of brush and grass and willow, and dogwood. I do have food plots in there as well. When you don't have all the land the goal is to provide the best cover in the block. Do that and you will kill good bucks. Provide the food and cover to hold the doe. Leave them alone all season and they feel at home. The big boys will come to check out all the stripper does. My goal is to not be able to see more then 20 yards inside my bedding areas. 3/4 of my land is bedding. 
When I say I cut them down. I mean every winter I go cut wood. I cut everything. I want my land to be constantly trying to reforest. I cut even 1 inch trees sometimes. I also make sure my trails are open enough for bucks with 3-5 year old horns to walk down freely.


----------



## CDN1 (May 27, 2018)

progression as a hunter happens to each person differently. If you carry legality, personal ethics and goals with you each time you head to your stand and mind them before you squeeze the trigger or loose the arrow or bolt you should be happy about whatever you harvest.

Hunting is about the experience, you as a hunter have the ability to control the variables of the experience.


----------



## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

jr28schalm said:


> We might be teammates for a day..lol


If your gone JR I’m right behind you Bro. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


----------



## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

Gamekeeper said:


> It’s a money thing.
> 
> In today’s day and age it’s $200,000 or more, to create for yourself the parcel of land that regularly draws in/ or holds, 3.5-year-old dear.
> 
> ...


200,000 dollar chainsaw? Dude what did you put in that joint?


----------



## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

brushbuster said:


> 200,000 dollar chainsaw? Dude what did you put in that joint?


----------



## jr28schalm (Mar 16, 2006)

brushbuster said:


> 200,000 dollar chainsaw? Dude what did you put in that joint?


Might be cheaper to go to one of John's classes. Pretty sure he hit 700 club on state land. Kind of like blaming the government for having a shetty job


----------



## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

jr28schalm said:


> Might be cheaper to go to one of John's classes. Pretty sure he hit 700 club on state land. Kind of like blaming the government for having a shetty job


No no, I know many men who routinely put down 3 1/2 year-old plus deer. To the man, they have access to very expensive pieces of land. No it’s true that in some cases they don’t own them, but nevertheless behind their success on these private holdings, there are hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars invested. That’s not public land hunting.

If your grandfather owns three sections of irrigated corn, and you’re shooting 3 1/2 year-old dear, there are millions of dollars standing behind you.

If the OP, is looking for strategies to find older deer on public land, because he doesn’t have access to high likelihood parcels, or he doesn’t have the money to create his own high value parcel, then it’s probably a different question

Ultimately,It’s about being able to apply resources to improve likelihood, decrease competition, or both. And that’s not chainsaw gas unless you own the property, which lines right up with my original statement based on average size of parcel, and cost per acre in the large antler bearing areas of Michigan.

And surprisingly, none of which I am against. If a person wants to spend their hard earned money creating a Whitetail deer habitat paradise, have at it. I would look forward to seeing the results


----------



## HUBBHUNTER (Aug 8, 2007)

Gamekeeper said:


> No no, I know many men who routinely put down 3 1/2 year-old plus deer. To the man, they have access to very expensive pieces of land. No it’s true that in some cases they don’t own them, but nevertheless behind their success on these private holdings, there are hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars invested. That’s not public land hunting.
> 
> If your grandfather owns three sections of irrigated corn, and you’re shooting 3 1/2 year-old dear, there are millions of dollars standing behind you.
> 
> ...


After careful consideration... it's the hunter.


----------



## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Shoot the smaller ones when you get older, it's easier on the fackin back!


----------



## Groundsize (Aug 29, 2006)

Gamekeeper said:


> It’s a money thing.
> 
> In today’s day and age it’s $200,000 or more, to create for yourself the parcel of land that regularly draws in/ or holds, 3.5-year-old dear.
> 
> ...


What do you mean? I purchased two pieces of land. One was 2800 an acre the other was 3300 and acre.. Its all about the block. The trick is buying it before it goes to market. In total I have 27 acres in my name and my hunting buddy has the 10 acres next door. Not expensive at all. Although It cold be very.


----------



## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

Groundsize said:


> What do you mean? I purchased two pieces of land. One was 2800 an acre the other was 3300 and acre.. Its all about the block. The trick is buying it before it goes to market. In total I have 27 acres in my name and my hunting buddy has the 10 acres next door. Not expensive at all. Although It cold be very.


 Congratulations on your good fortune.

What provisions do you make to keep fence sitters from sitting at the margins of your $2300 parcel?


----------



## Groundsize (Aug 29, 2006)

Gamekeeper said:


> Congratulations on your good fortune.
> 
> What provisions do you make to keep fence sitters from sitting at the margins of your $2300 parcel?


None I have no trespassers or fence sitters on my piece. The neighbors are old and the other land owners don't hunt much. Across the street the parcel sizes are huge. That helps.


----------



## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

Groundsize said:


> None I have no trespassers or fence sitters on my piece. The neighbors are old and the other land owners don't hunt much. Across the street the parcel sizes are huge. That helps.


My friend sold an 80 in Kingston for $575,000. Non arable land.
Because it sits between two large edge to edge farms.
That’s just a simple example of how much people are willing to pay to grow 3 1/2 year-old deer.
That ain’t chainsaw gas.


----------



## Dish7 (Apr 2, 2017)

Gamekeeper said:


> My friend sold an 80 in Kingston for $575,000. Non arable land.
> Because it sits between two large edge to edge farms.
> That’s just a simple example of how much people are willing to pay to grow 3 1/2 year-old deer.
> That ain’t chainsaw gas.


Well, the old saying "there's one born every minute" applies here, lol. Very few people are paying $7200/acre for strictly hunting ground. Not in MI anyway. There are always outliers.


----------



## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

Gamekeeper said:


> No no, I know many men who routinely put down 3 1/2 year-old plus deer. To the man, they have access to very expensive pieces of land. No it’s true that in some cases they don’t own them, but nevertheless behind their success on these private holdings, there are hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars invested. That’s not public land hunting.
> 
> If your grandfather owns three sections of irrigated corn, and you’re shooting 3 1/2 year-old dear, there are millions of dollars standing behind you.
> 
> ...



Remember it's more than that one big buck. How about all those fawns that you are giving a safe haven too. The stupid spikes and 4 points if you are out of a APR area. I feel GREAT watching 8 points knowing if they survive I might be able to HUNT next year, not watch! It's your bar, nobody else's.


----------



## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Dish7 said:


> Well, the old saying "there's one born every minute" applies here, lol. Very few people are paying $7200/acre for strictly hunting ground. Not in MI anyway. There are always outliers.


About 5 years ago I called a realtor on a 59 acre piece of partially wooded farm land. He told me me eleven an acre. I was asking for directions to his office to write a purchase agreement and told him $1,100 was more than fair. He corrected himself and said $11,000 an acre. I thanked him for his time.


----------



## Sasquatch Lives (May 23, 2011)

Gamekeeper said:


> My friend sold an 80 in Kingston for $575,000. Non arable land.
> Because it sits between two large edge to edge farms.
> That’s just a simple example of how much people are willing to pay to grow 3 1/2 year-old deer.
> That ain’t chainsaw gas.


Hell I'm killing em on public land for FREE! Can't beat that deal.


----------



## pgpn123 (May 9, 2016)

Gamekeeper said:


> It’s a money thing.
> 
> In today’s day and age it’s $200,000 or more, to create for yourself the parcel of land that regularly draws in/ or holds, 3.5-year-old dear.
> 
> ...


It's also a want-to thing. 200K, you're kidding, right? Sure you can spend that and more, but there's countless parcels for far less. Some 20 or even 10 acres are awesome to hunt. Do lots of looking. Downsize the house. Move further from work. Take out a lease.
How bad do you want it?
Improving the land should be a labor of love, not a money thing. It takes some time. A saw goes a long way. You might not get a brand new John Deere, but there's lots of affordable used tractors out there. Many make do with a quad or even less.
Most of the fun and reward is doing the work. You'll likely get a spot you enjoy more than state land, but no guarantees. There still won't be 3.5's behind every tree, no matter what you can afford.


----------



## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

Just to be more exacting, HOLD is not “get a shot at”.


----------



## Rowdy Bandit (Mar 22, 2016)

Between the 'big girls' thread and the visions that this one inspires... really enjoying the deer porn lately. Seriously quality stuff


----------



## hplayer13 (Nov 3, 2008)

Let’s tweak the question for maybe even more education... 

What are the mature buck personality traits you guys have seen and how have you managed to take that information and use it to kill that specific buck?


----------



## Flight of the arrow (Feb 11, 2008)

I haven’t shot as many as most, but I have a few.....enough to say that one wasn’t just getting lucky, no matter how much money you spend or the amount of time you put in the tree, it comes down to one thing, making the shot when it counts. Big deer don’t normally screw up and most seasoned hunters know this, so when the shot presents itself the pressure is on and it’s all about making that lethal shot when you have waited so long for the opportunity, in most cases that might be the only chance all season. Don’t know how many times I already had him on the wall to only have him turn and walk away, made stupid mistakes that cost me my opportunity, make one wrong move at the wrong time and a older buck isn’t sticking around to check things out, they vanish. I NEVER hunt my best sets until the time is right, and I NEVER take a chance with the wind, you get winded by a big deer and you will never know he was there.
Good luck this season 
Flight


----------



## Tilden Hunter (Jun 14, 2018)

Gamekeeper said:


> It’s a money thing.
> 
> In today’s day and age it’s $200,000 or more, to create for yourself the parcel of land that regularly draws in/ or holds, 3.5-year-old dear.
> 
> ...


Some of your post makes sense if understood in a certain way, but there is one big thing you are missing or ignoring: If someone increases the carrying capacity of their land it doesn't decrease the capacity of the surrounding land. It is not a zero-sum game.


----------



## Tilden Hunter (Jun 14, 2018)

cakebaker said:


> It's time for me to raise the bar because my wife keeps telling me to stop shooting the same size deer then waste 400 dollars to get it mounted. Now I have no choice but to aim for 140"-160" class of bucks like Waltzilla.


There was a club down in Georgia that had an interesting approach: Shoot whatever buck you want, but every one had to be mounted. Most weren't willing to put down the money for smaller bucks.


----------



## mbrewer (Aug 16, 2014)

hplayer13 said:


> Let’s tweak the question for maybe even more education...
> 
> What are the mature buck personality traits you guys have seen and how have you managed to take that information and use it to kill that specific buck?


Predictability. Older deer, in general, are homebodies. The size, shape and seasonal changes to range boundaries are the variable that is hardest to figure out. Hard enough that I don't spend a whole lot of time trying to completely sort it out. I look for his core area, the place where he has the most advantages, primarily security and water. Some food is everywhere, so he is unlikely be very near primary food sources, the does will be there. A 15 minute walk (for me) seems to be a pretty common setback distance.

Identifying primary food sources (year after year availability) in relation to preferred bedding is the quickest way to estimate range size and shape. Core areas are much smaller and easier to figure out, and only extreme sustained pressure will force them to relocate from them. Those areas have already made the grade or he wouldn't have adopted it.

I never worry that my careful intrusions will force a relocation. What I do believe happens is that over time the deer will adjust his behavior to account for mine. If you suspect this is happening to you, the solution is to predict again how he does it. Quite often those deer will hunt you and you become an obstacle to be avoided. You can set up to exploit that obstacle the same as any other, and you've narrowed his range at the same time. With time and experience that plan B stand will be as obvious as A was.

The place where that buck can resume his direct path travel is the plan B location. It doesn't have to be a funnel or a saddle more often it's just a strip of cover within cover that heads in the right direction. I also look for short cuts even in thin or bare areas that allow him to quickly resume his direct line of travel. Even if he only passes through there at night it's worth considering because day and night don't matter as much during the peak of the rut. My least favorite time to hunt due to it's unpredictability.

I avoided responding to this thread because 1 you already got a lot of good advice and 2 it's hard to keep it short. I'm out of time this morning so I'll stop and maybe be able to follow up later if need be.

My advice is to be aggressive whenever you can, don't be afraid to make mistakes as you gain experience and always try to understand what you are and aren't seeing. You'll see patterns that are predictable, remember the details and the locations and try to find the same detail elsewhere.

One last point that probably should have been the first; It all begins with sign. Big bucks leave big sign. Find it and get busy figuring it out.


----------



## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

mbrewer said:


> Predictability. Older deer, in general, are homebodies. The size, shape and seasonal changes to range boundaries are the variable that is hardest to figure out. Hard enough that I don't spend a whole lot of time trying to completely sort it out. I look for his core area, the place where he has the most advantages, primarily security and water. Some food is everywhere, so he is unlikely be very near primary food sources, the does will be there. A 15 minute walk (for me) seems to be a pretty common setback distance.
> 
> Identifying primary food sources (year after year availability) in relation to preferred bedding is the quickest way to estimate range size and shape. Core areas are much smaller and easier to figure out, and only extreme sustained pressure will force them to relocate from them. Those areas have already made the grade or he wouldn't have adopted it.
> 
> ...


Best post you ever written! I comprehended every sentence without any twists, turns or metaphoric turbulence. Nice job but best of all great advice. 

Yours Truly, 
Sniper


----------



## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

[QUOTE="mbrewer, post: 7650269, member: 96608"
*I avoided responding to this thread because 1 you already got a lot of good advice and 2 it's hard to keep it short. I'm out of time this morning so I'll stop and maybe be able to follow up later if need be.*


*One last point that probably should have been the first; It all begins with sign. Big bucks leave big sign. Find it and get busy figuring it out.*[/QUOTE]

Don't think we didn't notice that you had been "Conspicuously Absent" from the discussion MB! 

Your last point is also key to finding and hunting the big boys.

Great post!


----------



## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

mbrewer said:


> I never worry that my careful intrusions will force a relocation. What I do believe happens is that over time the deer will adjust his behavior to account for mine. If you suspect this is happening to you, the solution is to predict again how he does it. Quite often those deer will hunt you and you become an obstacle to be avoided. You can set up to exploit that obstacle the same as any other, and you've narrowed his range at the same time. With time and experience that plan B stand will be as obvious as A was.
> .


Good post and the snippet quoted above is often overlooked. When pressured, a deer doesn't vacate his range, but instead adjusts his movement within that range. Agree wholeheartedly that there are scenarios where hunting pressure, human activity, etc. can be beneficial to the narrowing of a buck's range.


----------



## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

mbrewer said:


> *My advice is to be aggressive whenever you c*an, don't be afraid to make mistakes as you gain experience and always try to understand what you are and aren't seeing. You'll see patterns that are predictable, remember the details and the locations and try to find the same detail elsewhere.
> 
> One last point that probably should have been the first; *It all begins with sign. Big bucks leave big sign. Find it and get busy figuring it out.*


2 Great points you make here MB which go right along with my #5 advice about in-season scouting and setting up and hunting hot sign when you find it. Others have mentioned "aggressive" tactics as well. 

Sometimes we have to think "Outside of the Box"!


----------



## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

hplayer13 said:


> Let’s tweak the question for maybe even more education...
> 
> What are the mature buck personality traits you guys have seen and how have you managed to take that information and use it to kill that specific buck?


Tell me where he should be. 
Then where I can expect him to be where I can wait undetected and not be avoided. Including after I leave.
Then tell me where the majority of deer are coming from and going to and when.

Two weeks pre hunt the same buck left the same property on the same edge when the shadow/shade was on it for the rest of the evening. 
Within 20 minutes of dark ,like clockwork.
Opposite direction the local deer moved in the evening when they used a high/dry low ridge to cross through a swamp from scattered beds beyond to feed. Then reverse direction near dawn.
Other deer arrived sporadically from another direction from a distance ,but would hit the same swamp edge. One semi circle of a few hundred yards could tell that older buck most of what it wanted/needed to know.

Bucks crossed the main runs to scent check when cruising for doe. 
Some simply downwinded the runs, while others used those runs to seek beyond the property. More runs can be checked by downwinding multiples than by sniffing one ,depending on scenting conditions.
So , the most efficient method when conditions were right meant bucks cruising quickly.
Good to do when a brute was around that might object...somewhere.

So just sit downwind a half hour before dark and tip that consistent evening edge buck over ,right?
I arrived hours early (disabled firearm/Oct.) and he squirted across the fallow field much closer than he was supposed to , much earlier ,and from the opposite direction before I had sat down.
So ..I missed him with a shot. (Or two) after he stopped. Blown buck now ,right?
Bucks were seeking and had not been when I had been watching him earlier on that steady pattern.
And...now he knows it's no longer safe.
Next hunt he snuck in close using cover and peeked , before doubling back.
Strike two....

So , I gave him a year to keep trying to find me and hopefully tire of it ,or simply forget.

Some time after taking a buck working the doe passing through route , and getting into an advanced firearm season I was still guarding that/those route within sight of that patterned distant edge from the year before , when the neighboring property touched of a barrage of gunfire. Two excited hunters it sounded like.
Deer used the drier route as usual through the swamp after leaving that property and a doe cautiously left the heavy cover , then turned instead of following the passing through route (deer would browse in that field before passing through in the evening usually , stalling till dark before leaving) and came up the fallow field for a carrot.
When she dropped at my shot, the buck from last season (yep ,hello again) peeked out of the distant cover edge he had been watching/following her from where she had left the cover.
Not seeing her he took another step to expand his view....Giving me the point of view of his shoulder through my scope.
Had she crossed the area instead of stopping , he only needed to follow for me to have a shot. 
I kinda have to credit that properties unmet neighbors for that buck.
If not what they were shooting at , they inspired the doe to leave her bed (or the property) before dark , with the buck in tow. (?)
But it all started with an early season pattern the year before that had not paid off , being duplicated by a homebody kind of buck and letting me know he was still alive.
(Though I had not actually laid eyes on him yet again that second year before that one evening , his track on that edge late summer told the tale.).
A tweak in anticipated route had to change with current events and season while still fitting in with activity of humans and other deer.
Instead of a solitary be bop on his own faint run food to bed conservative movement buck
( pre active seeking or rut time) easy goin guy after bachelor group split up ...He was sticking with a female and her routes.

In scouting older bucks , never ignore an older female where numbers are not high. 
Some of them don't care to be with younger bucks , given a choice.. 
Others are tended/defended by older bucks when the time comes.
But if nothing else they show where,how, some experienced deer work a site.
Bedding especially during rut. Scrape use too sometimes.
If she's hanging near one on purpose , or leaving a howdy ; he's likely around at times.


----------



## mbrewer (Aug 16, 2014)

Wild Thing said:


> Sometimes we have to think "Outside of the Box"!


For sure. I think it's instinct that guides us that way. Sometimes you can't know something so you have to feel them instead.

I use be aggressive and don't be afraid to make mistakes as a placeholder for that because I don't know how else to explain it.


----------



## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

mbrewer said:


> For sure. * I think it's instinct that guides us that way. Somethings you can't know something so you have to feel them instead.*
> 
> I use be aggressive and don't be afraid to make mistakes as a placeholder for that because I don't know how else to explain it.


You know, I recently read an article authored by Don Higgins where he spoke of having a "6th Sense", which is what I think we are feeling when, for no apparent reason, we feel good about setting up in a certain spot, even though there is really no sign there indicating that we should even consider that spot. In the article, Don hung a stand based upon just such a feeling and he was something like 0 for his first 9 or 10 sits in that spot. He never even saw a doe. On the next sit he shot a great buck - it was the first deer that came by that stand.

I don't think I've ever had that much patience on a "hunch" spot - especially now that we have scouting cameras to help us out, but I have hung stands in very similar situations. Once in a while they pay off - often they don't, but...nothing ventured....nothing gained.


----------



## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

mbrewer said:


> Predictability. Older deer, in general, are homebodies. The size, shape and seasonal changes to range boundaries are the variable that is hardest to figure out. Hard enough that I don't spend a whole lot of time trying to completely sort it out. I look for his core area, the place where he has the most advantages, primarily security and water. Some food is everywhere, so he is unlikely be very near primary food sources, the does will be there. A 15 minute walk (for me) seems to be a pretty common setback distance.
> 
> Identifying primary food sources (year after year availability) in relation to preferred bedding is the quickest way to estimate range size and shape. Core areas are much smaller and easier to figure out, and only extreme sustained pressure will force them to relocate from them. Those areas have already made the grade or he wouldn't have adopted it.
> 
> ...


Calling deer home bodies couldn’t be farther than the truth unless you are calling travel patterns several counties wide as being homebodies. This recent study has great graphics of collared deer travel patterns. 

https://campfirewildlife.com/projects/deer-movement/results/

Ingham and Clinton county also have on going studies going on.


----------



## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Luv2hunteup said:


> Calling deer home bodies couldn’t be farther than the truth unless you are calling travel patterns several counties wide as being homebodies. This recent study has great graphics of collared deer travel patterns.
> 
> https://campfirewildlife.com/projects/deer-movement/results/
> 
> Ingham and Clinton county also have on going studies going on.


Oh , there are homebodies.
In a low population it's obvious they range farther. And in regions with low human numbers they can bed well beyond familiar areas. Adding many miles to a range.

Yet in rural areas where checkerboard parcels are attended by hunters there's no sense running the gauntlet regular. Even at night.
Yes there are some bucks that really stretch it out pre rut.
But I know multiple cases of a mile being enough range to rarely exceed.
With a core area much smaller , despite it's occasional change of specific site.

Food, water, does, security cover. And they can all exist on an acre.
Many areas have a given "hot spot" for deer , if not for a hunter. 
Non hunted land. Poorly hunted land. Land like mine where the hunter is easy enough to keep tabs on and avoid if a regular attendee deer if ever spooked. 

With exceptions for antsy bucks that cruise long distance seeking receptive doe when none exist at the time (and around here those are exceptions due to running into multiple hazards ,including other older bucks that don't cheer them) Why leave a site?

Older bucks are good at staying out of hunters sight when they know hunters are near.
When used to humans being around they don't just take off and go where no humans exist. That is not an option in many rural areas.
They lay low or slide around.
Seen it. Too many times to dismiss as random.

Those long ranging ,see them once (or not) brutes are prime.
Not all their age class wears their hooves as much traveling. And in the Southern lower they don't migrate long distances and accept the not being on home (very well known) turf with the usual suspects trying to pursue them.
And those that limit range by being content within an accepted boundary in certain habitats are on deck for being prime next year. 
If they are not yet . 
They do turn up bedding in odd (for them) spots when tending a doe.
Almost here one cuss sometimes when flushed.
But with enough doe around and putting on weight instead of chasing ghosts that don't exist ,they thrive.


----------



## Hillsdales Most Wanted (Jul 17, 2015)

hplayer13 said:


> Came into my plot at 630pm


Evening hunt !!!!!!!!!


----------



## Whitetail Freak (Nov 10, 2008)

Giant!! Congrats


----------



## mjh4 (Feb 2, 2018)

My advice for consistent mature bucks is not easy and you usually won't see many deer. I hunt in the thickest nastiest swamps you where you would never imagine a deer would go. Trust me that's where the big boys go when hunting season starts. You have to have a game plan for getting in and out of swamps undetected and that's the hardest part but well worth the extra work. It's a dirty job but someone has to do it!


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


----------



## hplayer13 (Nov 3, 2008)

mjh4 said:


> My advice for consistent mature bucks is not easy and you usually won't see many deer. I hunt in the thickest nastiest swamps you where you would never imagine a deer would go. Trust me that's where the big boys go when hunting season starts. You have to have a game plan for getting in and out of swamps undetected and that's the hardest part but well worth the extra work. It's a dirty job but someone has to do it!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


He moved from my plot into super thick cover that went from the plot to transition line to AG, I honestly could barely find a hole to shoot it was so thick I completely agree


----------



## Dish7 (Apr 2, 2017)

hplayer13 said:


> This view doesn’t show it, but there’s 16 scoreable. I would say key things were pre season scouting, which narrowed down where I knew his bedroom was and I was doing my first sit hang and hunt 100 yards from his bedding. Access was absolute key, because he used 15-20 does to basically surround him, but I came in on the one direction he didn’t. My food plot work was key because his movement was defined. But just being open to learning from other guys was vital, lots of great information out there between YouTube, Podcasts and books/articles/forums.


I see you followed mbrewer's lead and didn't show your face with your buck. Lol. Just kidding great job and buck.

#thejokethatnevergetsold


----------



## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

Dish7 said:


> I see you followed mbrewer's lead and didn't show your face with your buck. Lol. Just kidding great job and buck.
> 
> #thejokethatnevergetsold


I got this one.


----------



## Dish7 (Apr 2, 2017)

stickbow shooter said:


> I got this one.
> View attachment 441295


That's a dandy....I think?


----------



## Tilden Hunter (Jun 14, 2018)

mjh4 said:


> My advice for consistent mature bucks is not easy and you usually won't see many deer. I hunt in the thickest nastiest swamps you where you would never imagine a deer would go. Trust me that's where the big boys go when hunting season starts. You have to have a game plan for getting in and out of swamps undetected and that's the hardest part but well worth the extra work. It's a dirty job but someone has to do it!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


There is no universal answer as to the best terrain. I'm fortunate enough to hunt in very broken terrain, and saddles it what I look to. There are other good spots also, but these are best. Most importantly are edges where vegetation changes from one type to another.


----------



## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

Dish7 said:


> I see you followed mbrewer's lead and didn't show your face with your buck. Lol. Just kidding great job and buck.
> 
> #thejokethatnevergetsold


There’s just always sumpin sketchy about someone who doesn’t show themselves. Wanted poster at the post office, keep away 500 ‘ from any school, child support payments. These are the first things that pop in my head when I see someone hiding. Sorry. It’s just a deer picture. 
Awesome buck though. Congrats. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


----------



## Carpenter Bill (Jan 27, 2018)

What county are you hunting in hockey player 13.


----------



## hplayer13 (Nov 3, 2008)

sniper said:


> There’s just always sumpin sketchy about someone who doesn’t show themselves. Wanted poster at the post office, keep away 500 ‘ from any school, child support payments. These are the first things that pop in my head when I see someone hiding. Sorry. It’s just a deer picture.
> Awesome buck though. Congrats.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


I forgot to mention i didn’t blur out my face I am just dedicated fully to my activated carbon powder and I got a little carried away that afternoon


----------



## LabtechLewis (Nov 20, 2008)

Nice buck. Congrats!


----------



## mbrewer (Aug 16, 2014)

hplayer13 said:


> View attachment 441177
> View attachment 441177
> He’s at least 4, but my guess from body and teeth was 5. Could be off but that’s my guess


Congrats. He's mature. How mature is an academic endeavor.


----------



## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

ridgewalker said:


> The older the buck the smaller percentage of them in the herd. I don't believe anything will change that. MAPRs MIGHT move some to the legal requirement but then they will go down. Deer die for too many reasons in Michigan to change my first statement. During the rut hunters also put down many of the big ones. I will always let the disabled, senior, and youth hunters take whatever deer for which they have a legal tag. My choice depends on the time of the season and whether I have venison in the freezer.


Ridge I disagree with your first 2 sentences. I have proof of it first hand. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


----------



## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

hplayer13 said:


> I forgot to mention i didn’t blur out my face I am just dedicated fully to my activated carbon powder and I got a little carried away that afternoon


Booya! Whatever your tatic for your success, it’s working. Your shooting big deer and your not in jail. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


----------



## Dish7 (Apr 2, 2017)

ridgewalker said:


> The older the buck the smaller percentage of them in the herd. I don't believe anything will change that. MAPRs MIGHT move some to the legal requirement but then they will go down. Deer die for too many reasons in Michigan to change my first statement. During the rut hunters also put down many of the big ones. I will always let the disabled, senior, and youth hunters take whatever deer for which they have a legal tag. My choice depends on the time of the season and whether I have venison in the freezer.


This thread has been a good one overall. Has zero to do with aprs or disabled and youth hunters. You forgot to throw in a mention of the bait ban.


----------



## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

sniper said:


> Ridge I disagree with your first 2 sentences. I have proof of it first hand.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


You have proof that older age classes are a higher percentage of the herd than younger? Interesting. I guess that makes sense IF you narrow the definition of "herd" to a very specific and small area.


----------



## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

hplayer13 said:


> I forgot to mention i didn’t blur out my face I am just dedicated fully to my activated carbon powder and I got a little carried away that afternoon


HP13, you should have colored on your blacked out face with a white smiley face and you could got all the people bitching playing the race card. I like how the 2 previous posts were demeaning you for no pictures, they are quiet now. EXCELLENT buck by the way! It is a season for me when you can hunt a certain buck and not just go hunting. I have spent many a season with just one target in mind no matter what. That is what I call "HUNTING".


----------



## hplayer13 (Nov 3, 2008)

Chessieman said:


> HP13, you should have colored on your blacked out face with a white smiley face and you could got all the people bitching playing the race card. I like how the 2 previous posts were demeaning you for no pictures, they are quiet now. EXCELLENT buck by the way! It is a season for me when you can hunt a certain buck and not just go hunting. I have spent many a season with just one target in mind no matter what. That is what I call "HUNTING".


Thanks man I will say learning one specific mature buck taught me so much and it was so gratifying, the whole family was involved and my kids were always wanting to glass for the “nicknamed buck” and helped with food plots, my wife actually was excited and encouraging. Great experience very blessed to have hunted that deer


----------



## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

sureshot006 said:


> You have proof that older age classes are a higher percentage of the herd than younger? Interesting. I guess that makes sense IF you narrow the definition of "herd" to a very specific and small area.


Sure why not. Yes my area. The percentage of 2.5 plus yr old bucks in my area is not what I consider a small percentage. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


----------

