# Salmon techniques, methods, flies, info, help, etc.



## Guest (Aug 19, 2001)

Rain, rain, don't go away, bring in salmon and let them stay 

Had to add some humor in! Well we are getting the rain we need to bring in some more brutes! I can hear my line screaming and my feel my rod bending! I can't wait, I have SALMON FEVER! Well guys, you may not care(especially steeliebuck ) but I have been tying non-stop, how about you guys?? Globugs, speys, streamers, nymphs, etc. are just some. I created this thread for help, info, questions, techniques, methods, etc. for fall salmon fishing! The other thread was getting cluttered! Well guys feel free to post on anything relating to this! First topic below:

Salmon Patterns: Your bread and butter pattern? 

During the time a salmon is in the river it can be picky about flies, and sometimes won't strike unless the fly is drifted right across their face. Hey sometimes that challenge can be fun and well worth the time and effort. When the salmon enter the rivers, they have one thing on their mind....SPAWNING! In the lake, salmon feed on primarily baitfish, and sometimes other forage. Salmon in the rivers, are not there to eat, but will take a fly out of agression or instinct. During its early life, salmon eat caddis larve, mayfly and stonefly nymphs, small crustaceans, etc. and will eat out of instinct sometimes. Again, that is why it can be crucial to get a perfect drift when fishing for salmon in rivers. I have been at my bench alot lately, staying up late tying patterns. With all the patterns out there to entice fall salmon, there is always one fly I can rely on all the time to provide hook ups...."Dan's Viagra Caddis" This fly is a variation of the caddis, and spiced up a little. The reason I rely on it most of the time, is that caddis are the #1 instream salmon and steelhead food, no lie. The abundance of these little nymphs, will make fish strike. The fly is quick, cheap, and easy to tie but effective! All year I have this fly in my box, for steelies, salmon, and trout and do be without one is a SIN! Now don't take me wrong, I do fish other flies often. Globugs are my #2 favorite fly, and I always have many of these also. 

What is your "bread and butter" fly??? Let me know what you think!


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## Hex4steel (Jun 22, 2001)

Hey dan ive had a hard time tying due to "Salmon Fever",ever time i start tying a pattern i think of a 30lb lunker grabbing it and screaming down the river. Hey dan i came up with a new attractor pattern that i used during steelhead season and i couldnt keep them off of it. I imagine it should work the same for salmon. My favorite technique so far for salmon would have to be the old chuck and duck. I dont like all the foul hook ups but there are just as many legal hooks as well so i guess it evens out. Ive been using the indicator nymping lately for them and had one come up and try to grab when i was getting ready to roll cast back to the top of the hole. My favorite line is a floating running line for C&D becuase you can watch your line easily. Well good luck out there. 

Little Matt


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## WEEZER (Feb 1, 2000)

Dan those are theories.... They sound very good but nobody knows for sure if They feed outta instinct!!! I can see them hitting outta agression, I'll agree with that part of the theory. 
I don't have a favorite fly for chins. I mostly use egg patterns and buggers. caddis are good but they don't produce well in some of the rivers that I fish. an olive sparrow usually will out produce a regular "Viagra style" caddis nymph in my neck of the woods. 
I Mostly fish spin gear for salmon too.I am a believer that c&D isn't flyfishing even though I use that frequently on the smaller tribs.


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2001)

About the instinct thing, scientific studies by Central University and MSU's fisheries divison have showed that fish that are adamorous(spelling??) will consume crustaceans, nymphs, larve, etc. when in a river for a period of time. Look at the steelheadsite a while back in the fisheries forum and you'll see some emails and posts about this. I have been studying salmon and steelhead alot lately and contacting many biologists and fisheries operations gave me some very logical information. Now, spawning fish don't have eating on their mind, but they will react out of instinct. Many scientists and fishery biologists don't know if it is b/c of preminitions and past expirences when the fish was in earlier stages of life  , but they have concluded that spawning salmon will eat out of this instinct. Also include this factor, if we get so many hook ups during salmon season then they strike only out of aggression?? I wouldn't think so, b/c many will catch salmon in the mouth in numbers, when they are in spawning mode. A freind of mine(I won't reveal his name b/c I'll be laughed upon and get BASHED)who is a guide, decided to keep a salmon to cook, and after cutting it open, the stomach contents showed many hundreds of caddis larve, and other nymphs not digested. You may not believe me, but this brings up many points and conclusions.  If salmon didn't eat, why would we be targeting them in the rivers? Agression, yeah maybe...but I bet if I drifted glo bugs in front of many salmon, the majority of them would strike! Well, I thought I would add this, and I am no expert or know it all, just wanted to rely some info I have been studying and learning about. Only more observations and studies will conclude this, but consider what I have said, especially about the cutting open of the salmon, and the contents!  

About the sparrow nymph, alot more action on that fly. The marabou and hair adds attraction and action, and can work well. I like them, but can't say I LOVE them! 

Chuck n' duck....I do it sometimes, but I am moving on to more tradtional methods. I always have had fun with indicator nymphing, and will do it ALOT more this year! 

back to "bread and butter" flies!


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## Erik (Jan 17, 2000)

I once caught a salmon near the mouth of the Ausable that when I cleaned it I found three alewifes in his stomach. Some of you guys might remember me talking about it. I still don't think they feed per say while in the river, but they can be tricked to strike out of instinct and aggresion. Also while they are staging, and I personally believe staging can include entering the river at least part way, and then heading back out, they feed very heavily.


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2001)

Back to the feeding thing, studies have show staging fishing will eat. Studies and observations on the west coast have shown that staging fish will eat, but the transition from salt to fresh can slow down this eating process, and keep the bite off for a period of time. Great Lakes salmon don't need to make these transitions, and sometimes will feed heavily upon entering a river. Is this feeding out of instinct or just to regain energy from a long run.....we aren't sure! Once the salmon have the tranisition into spawning mode, eating is not on their minds, but will take a nymph, etc. out of instinct/aggression. Even though the salmon may not digest the food, it will remain in their stomachs for a period of time. As I explanined about the salmon's stomach contents, the fish probably was eating out of instinct and the food couldn't be digested! Well, again, we don't know everything yet, but this discussion is fun! 

Indicator Nymphing for Salmon: 

Well guys, salmon season is almost here in Michigan...we have a few kings, but there are many more to come. I want to practice Indicator nymphing for kings ALOT more this year, instead of just the ol' drift fishing! How many of you indy nymph for salmon??? It is alot more traditional than drift fishing, and has its advantages such as snagging bottom less often, getting a better drift because of a float and suspension rig, better line control, etc. I know it isn't as effective as drift fishing, but it sure can be fun! There are alot things to consider when using this method, such as rod length, line, leaders, floats, and terminal tackle. It can be very effective if done right as you guys probably already know. I prefer a longer rod to get better drifts, and I like to minimize anything that limits my casting (i.e. large floats, heavy spiltshot, swivels, etc.) The idea behind indicator fishing is the fly is on a suspension rig(sometimes called this) and is under a float, enabling a drag free drift if done right! For float selection, many of you probably know there are many to chose from. I like teardrop floats best, but cylindrical floats are nice too! When using this method, a floating flyline is needed. Salmon/steelhead taper lines work best usually, because they have a longer body to allow mending and less bows in the line. For rigging, a 2' amnesia and 6' of 12 - 14lb. mono is the butt section to the float, and then 4'-6' of descedning leader suspended beneath works for me. Sometimes a very small swivel about 2' down beneath a float will let you go from heavier leader to lighter leader without having to descend in tippet diamter. I will have an egg and nymph on usually, with small shot if needed. 

Let me here what you guys think or what you do different. Anything is appreciated and thanks in advance! 


Remeber....no BASHING!


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## WEEZER (Feb 1, 2000)

I have experimented with indy fishing for steelhead and It is awesome! Flat out more exciting than C&D.
The hardest thing to get used to is casting with the indy on. I have concluded that a WF 8 wt line does the job very well on most of our small-medium sized tribs IE PM,Rifle,the little etc. I don't fish the larger rivers with an indy rig but if I did I would invest in a good Double taper 8wt or even go up a line size.

One really important thing that will help your casting is to slow down your rhythm!!!Make sure you line stretches out behind you more than normal or you will have a tangle from hell!!! If you can't get a good backcast which will happen a LOT strip off a good amount of line and make an exaggerated roll cast. 
Thanks Dan I'm finally starting to get the itch. I might go and try to break a few knuckles in the morn.
good luck and Bobber down!


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2001)

Hope all goes well! Good info! Indy fishing can be fun, and so can other traditional techniques. The Great Lakes region has been revolutioned by chuck and duck, and sometimes I want to get away from it for a while! Well good luck!


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## scoot (Jul 4, 2001)

Dan im knew to flyfishin and am lookin to go after salmon for the first time with a fly rod. I have pretty good techniques for salmon that arent on the gravel yet with spin gear. But i want to try fish on gravel with a fly rod so is this viagra caddis a good fly for fish on gravel redds or should i just go to a large marabou streamer?


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2001)

I LOVE to help! Anyways, when the salmon are on the gravel they are more apparent to see, but also can be spooked easily. I don't know what technique you prefer, but my advice is to drift fish the redd thoroughly, making sure to get that fly in the fish's face. A viagra caddis can be a good choice if properly drifted, but a salmon may not react to one as quickly as a leech, streamer, marabou pattern, or something else buggy.  When I fish redds, I usually run an egg pattern, and a big stone behind that just to see if I can get a good drift and a strike. Otherwise, I'll try an egg sucking leech, marabou spey, or big streamer to entice the fish into striking. Both the caddis and marabou pattern may be productive, but getting a good drift, or putting the fly smack in its face will usually be rewarding.

Let me know if you have any other questions or discussion!


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Dan, we need your help. 
We can't seem to be able to keep fish off of our lines.
Is there a fish repellant on the market, that would reduce the amount of hook-ups?
My elbow and shoulders are beginning to show wear. I'm 42, with the shoulders of an 80 year old.
These weekends are killing us.

PLEASE HELP.

The Fish Killers


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2001)

Can't help you there! Anyways, If I didn't have football I would be up north, guess I'll have to wait till labor day weekend! I am looking at throwing streamers for brownies at a local river, but I have been busy tying, and getting ready! I have SALMON FEVER, and once I get that chance you'll know where I'll be! 

BACK TO THE SALMON!


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## gomer (Dec 30, 2000)

dan, is there any way you could email me this caddis pattern? i am very interested. ill even trade patterns if you want.


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2001)

The viagra caddis pattern, or "Dan's Viagra Caddis"

Well, I'll see as long as you keep it a secret! Anyways, the viagra caddis is simple! Easiest pattern to tie, and most effective sometimes!

Viagra Caddis:

Hook: Scud Hook/Caddis hook(sometimes I use globug hooks)
Tag: 1/4in. Olive, Caddis Green, or chartreuse ultra chenille
Head: Black angora goat dubbing

Tie in tag behind hook eye, add dubbing as head and whip finish. Burn end of chenille with lighter.

 My bread and butter pattern!


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## stelmon (Sep 21, 2000)

Dan, i am in some need of help. I got this disease that I cant get rid of. It keeps me up till 5 in the mourning. When I finally get to bed, i sleep walk to my fishing pole and then start fishing in the toilet. I cant stop, what is wrong with me. Please tell me. If I go fishing fo rthe whole weekend, i do worst. I fish in my dogs water. What do you recomend


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2001)

I believe you have SALMON FEVER! I have it too, but there is no cure! Sorry man.....Can't help you !!! 

PS: Get tying, or call 1-800-VIAGRA caddis for other assistance!


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## Erik (Jan 17, 2000)

Stelmon, I think you've been fishing that huron river too much! It'll do that do yah.


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2001)

Drift fishing: The most effective, most practiced, most covered but most hated fly fishing method for catching river salmon. What I mean by this is we all do it(well most of us  ) but it is labled as the easiest way to catch salmon and it is frowned upon, by many. Well when you think EASY, do you mean hooking fish, or hooking fish properly?? Ahhhh, is that a trick question??? No but yes Chuck and Duck as it is reffered to as, is the best way to get a fly down quickly, and enable a dead drift effeciently. The pro's are you'll hook into many fish, the cons....not all of the hooksets are in the mouth Now, is there a way of actually not snagging fish when doing this??? Well it can be done, but it has to be done correctly. Now, I know what many of you are thinking right now....that can't be done, you will snag some.....what is this guy talking about! Well, that doesn't bother me, b/c I have practiced this method over the years, and I have had less snags, less flies lost, and more fish! The objective is to maintain "balance" when practicing this method. When I say "balance", I am reffering to your technique, , presentation, area you fishing, etc. Now, when you consider all of these things, you'll become a better drift "fly" fisherman This is what I want to stress....

Presentation and technique: When drift fishing, do get the proper presentation will depend on many factors. How high or low is the water? What is the water temp? Are the fish spawning or holding? What is the weather, has there been any fronts latley? These are just some of the factors that contribute to proper presentation. Once you know this, you can apply the technique you wish to perform. Post questions or if you want to discuss this more 

Area: The area you are concentrating on is always important. Are you fishing deeper slower water, fast riffles, a shallow run, eddies or deep pool, etc.??? Post for more discussion!

More discussion later!


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## stelmon (Sep 21, 2000)




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## Erik (Jan 17, 2000)

When it comes to the subject of chuck and duck, I feel it's just one more method of fishing. The more methods a person has at his disposal, the more likely he will be successful. On the subject of drift fishing, Bill Herzog calls it the second hardest method for fishing. Not sure if I agree with him, but I do think it's a bit more difficult then some would give it credit for. It does take some patience to learn the bottom of a good run to the point that you can bounce over the rocks, and logs, and not get hung up. Also a lot of anglers think they can just plop the line in and not mend it since they are using weight. That's not true at all. Mending is very important when drift fishing. Fish tend to not like getting hit in the head with a lead weight. They need to see the bait or fly first, and it takes practice to turn your rig around properly. Keeping the line mended will also lower the number of foul hookups.


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2001)

Good point Erik Drift fishing isn't as easy as it sounds, and many try to make it that way. Many believe upon what you stressed, but many factors are critical for proper presentation.

Presentationcont.) Myself and many have found that standing downstream, and facing upstream at a 45deg. angle usually works best for drift fishing. This way you are almost parallel and you enable a good drift. What I mean by this, is say you are in a river. The two banks are parallel to eachother, so standing downstream(parallel to the banks) but facing upstream at a 45deg. angle and making upstream casts is the most effective way to get a good drift. In this way the fly is drifting almost parallel to you, and allows mending, line control, the ability to set the hook properally, etc. etc. Mending is also a critical factor as Erik stated In order for the fly to get a good drift, upstream mending is needed. MENDING is essential, the reason is that if you don't, you won't get a proper drift. Also, you will get a bow in your line. Salmon and steelhead will stop your line when they strike during a drift, and if you don't mend your line, the drag of the bow in your line will cause you to miss less hooksets. Your rod is a tool, so it can perform many functions for you when drift fishing. I have always found that many guides and anglers who reach out with their rod, and follow their line through a drift get more hookups. The reason....by following your line, and watching it you can feel your weight off the bottom, feel more strikes, and react quicker when a fish hits. This is the same in trout fishing, where you may perform short line nymphing methods. 

Post for more discussion, help, info, etc.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Boy, you sure know alot.

I bow to you. You are the MAN.


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## Kevin (Oct 4, 2000)

Wait, let me get this. . .
So what your'e saying is that "my rod is a tool", and "mend my line". 
Got it, thanks for the huge help!


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2001)

AMOS: Your rod is a tool, I hope you realized that, b/c otherwise well lets leave at that b/c I don't want to know the story behind it........

Shoeman: Being sarcastic Anyways, LISTEN you might LEARN!  

DRIFT FISHING.....

Tandem Rigs: When drift fishing, running two flies is always more effective that one.....YES, always! Myself and many use an egg pattern as the point fly and a nymph dropper. I will sometimes run two nymphs, or two eggs, depending of course. The use of two flies increases strikes, as you probably know. Post for more discussion, info, etc.


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## lay_z_boy (Apr 13, 2001)

I doubt shoeman will learn anything from you dan. Haven't you looked at any of the pictures he posts after he comes back from a weekend fishing trip, he catches more in one weekend then you catch all year. I don't understand where you get off acting like you are some expert drift fisherman. You have told us before that you have only caught a handful of salmon, how can you be an expert, and why do you refer to them as "many" in your post.


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## rockman (Feb 28, 2001)

Dan,
This is not a bash, but I would like to know what your information is based on. Is it what you've read? or what your "guides" have told? or something else? I am not convinced that it is on the water experience...otherwise you would have easily identified gomer's fish as a steelhead.


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

Closing this thread b4 it self destructs.


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