# Should I buy land, opinions needed



## On Target (Jun 10, 2007)

Here's my situation, I live in northern Kent county, I'm 55, just paid my house off, still have a decent paying job.
I've been really kicking the idea of buying hunting land around lately. Recently 2 great 40 acre hunting properties just came up for sale around my block. Unfortunately both were listed at 200k+. Both properties were mainly low wet land type properties with maybe 1 hi spot you could build on. To me these prices seemed ridiculous, and almost make me feel like I don't have a chance. 
I think I could comfortably go 100k, so I started looking online at properties a little further away. The things I think I want most are, enough land that I don't burn it out, heavy cover, access from multiple directions for wind direction, deer travel could come in from at least 2 sides, preferably 3, an area known for mature bucks, ideally within 1 hour drive, possibly 1.5. Some of my concerns are what the neighbors will be like, don't really want to be within a mile of stateland, will the market tank then I'm way upside down, could they put a subdivision in on adjoining property. 
My other option could be getting a lease for 3k a year which I don't have a lot of confidence in, or just doing a paid out of state hunt each year. I realize both of these options are just pissing money away rather than an investment. 
At this point in my life, I have the money, not sure how many good years I have in front of me, and just want quality hunting experiences with chances at mature bucks.
I'm sure there are a lot of guys out there in my same situation.
If I were to buy property, the sounds of eventually having my home on it sounds good to where I could retire on it and sell my current house.
All opinions appreciated. 

Thanks


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## Bucman (Jun 29, 2016)

Land is gold!


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## LOman (Jan 12, 2017)

Be selective if you buy land. I bought 34 acres that was a 50 minute drive away, and the area had little QDM activity. I found myself gravitating to the areas that I had always hunted, which was state land behind my neighborhood, or farms that were 1.5 hours away in an active QDM cooperative.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

Aah, the travails of aspirational deer hunting.
You have two things in front of you to consider. 1 is only about owning recreational land, the other is killing big deer.
Unless you have unlimited means (Which you have implied you don't), It's hard to get all those ***** up the same tree at the same time.
If you asked your wife, " I want to spend $500,000 to be able to shoot Large deer on my own property"... What would she say? How would she feel about it?

It is difficult to get everyone on board For a recreational investment That is a biannual cash suck.

For those who have to accomplish that within the open market, as opposed to Farm families of people with Aging relatives who already own large parcels, demand for hunting land and it's cost Climbs every year.

If the money side, and the people side,Support the decision,Then It's just About getting in the game. It's only going to cost more if you wait . Interest rates are supportive of recreational land purchases at this time.


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## fishdip (Dec 29, 2010)

Do you want good deer ground or high ground that's not wet and doesn't hold deer and someone can build on.You want the thickest low land you can find where the deer live not just travel thru at times.Their is nothing like having your own property to hunt where ever you want.


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## Whitetail Freak (Nov 10, 2008)

I enjoy working on the land as much as hunting it! Need a hobby?


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

On Target said:


> Here's my situation, I live in northern Kent county, I'm 55, just paid my house off, still have a decent paying job.
> I've been really kicking the idea of buying hunting land around lately. Recently 2 great 40 acre hunting properties just came up for sale around my block. Unfortunately both were listed at 200k+. Both properties were mainly low wet land type properties with maybe 1 hi spot you could build on. To me these prices seemed ridiculous, and almost make me feel like I don't have a chance.
> I think I could comfortably go 100k, so I started looking online at properties a little further away. The things I think I want most are, enough land that I don't burn it out, heavy cover, access from multiple directions for wind direction, deer travel could come in from at least 2 sides, preferably 3, an area known for mature bucks, ideally within 1 hour drive, possibly 1.5. Some of my concerns are what the neighbors will be like, don't really want to be within a mile of stateland, will the market tank then I'm way upside down, could they put a subdivision in on adjoining property.
> My other option could be getting a lease for 3k a year which I don't have a lot of confidence in, or just doing a paid out of state hunt each year. I realize both of these options are just pissing money away rather than an investment.
> ...


Your criteria list is solid. Keep in mind that on a small parcel it is not as likely that you'll have multiple direction access. Terrain features that effectively funnel deer, such as a lake or river, could be another factor to consider.

Your best option is to find land that currently isn't for sale. Online county GIS maps are a great resource. Remember that the best 40 may currently be a part of a larger parcel. When you find a parcel that is a fit reach out to the landowner and let them know "If there comes a time where you might be considering selling your piece, please let me know." 

When you eventually reach the point of negotiations don't get drawn into debates of what it's "worth." Instead emphasize "here's how much I can afford to pay."

The land market right now is reminiscent of 15 years ago. Back then some parcels were selling at close to the listing price and yet quality land could still be found at much less than that. The same is still true today.


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## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

You have to consider also what will happen when you purchase your dream piece. You will be working on that land as a part time job almost year round developing the habitat. You will be going out getting that fresh air and exercise due to not having the right equipment and have to using your arms. Your whole mind set will change about your deer and property. Just be selectively and try to move away from the CWD area. As talked about here, talk to neighbors, study were the new developments are and look at the land through all seasons. I would buy now but buy the new county Plat Book and investigate. Land will be going only up even if the market crashes. Approach people to see if they might want to sell even with a run down house on it, that could be as much fun as you will have working on it. Good luck and may you and yours have a safe and happy holiday.


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## Fish This! (Jun 25, 2006)

Based on your comments I would say go for it. Sounds like your looking for a place to eventually live on and enjoy, so think of the land purchase now as an investment. Large vacant parcels seem to go up in price every year. With some sweat equity you can turn any 40 or 80 acre parcel into a very productive and enjoyable place to hunt. We bought 160 acres several years ago and get just as much enjoyment from working the land and forests as we do from hunting. 

Do your due diligence on the property your considering. Lots of large farms north of you in Mecosta, Newaygo and Osceola counties. We found an old abandoned farm surrounded by several other larger farms. Provides lots of privacy, plenty of deer food, etc... I'd drive around an area you think you would like. Get to know it. Also get in contact with a local realtor (Cabelas I think has an outfit in northern MI with realtors who specialize in hunting property) to keep on the look out for properties that may be coming available for sale. Then when a parcel pops up for sale you are ready to react quickly. In our area lots of parcels sell before ever hitting the market. We have grabbed a few smaller parcels that way. 

Good Luck!


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## HuronView (Oct 18, 2014)

I’ll be honest—with your budget, you’re in for a snipe hunt. I can envision what you want, parcel-wise, but I’m not sure it exists where you need it to.

I think what it always boils down to is what do you value? If you’re willing to work a few more years, could you afford the prices that are being demanded by the market? Or, is it more important to have that time to be out sucking up the fresh air, with no boss, on a piece of property that maybe isn’t exactly what you want? 

I go with the latter.

And, one other thing. The size of the property is less important than how it hunts. I own some land where the access and prevailing wind are from the west. Burns out quick. The right property is the one that will provide you the most consistent enjoyment.


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## tdejong302 (Nov 28, 2004)

I prefer to own land. I have tried public lands for years. Seemed to always have issues w/ others. We bought land and put in a food plot. While it does cost more to own its nice enjoying your investment and not having guys move in 15 ft. from you. If you don't mind traveling alittle farther north lands gets cheaper the farther you go. I wouldn't go any smaller then a 40 and you have the right idea... no public land next to ya. Good luck.


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## 3X8 (Oct 4, 2019)

Head North, buy 80 and split it (If you can bare to do it after owning it )


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## On Target (Jun 10, 2007)

Thanks for the responses so far, much appreciated. Habitat work is definitely on the pro side. I know I would really enjoy that part of it. I would like to be able to at least put a travel trailer on it to stay overnight. My biggest question is if I could find a good piece in the 40 acre neighborhood for around 100k. I did see a couple places that check most of my boxes near white cloud, but I've never thought of that area as big buck land.


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## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

I was 46 years old when my wife and I purchased our first 80 acre parcel. Over the years we were able to purchase 2 adjacent 40 acre parcels. Although prices are not as high in the UP as they are in your neck of the woods, it was still a substantial investment. That being said, our investment is worth substantially more today as well. 

None of the 3 purchases were ever listed with a realtor. In each case we contacted the landowners and let them know that we were interested in buying when they were interested in selling. In addition to buying at a better price, all of these parcels were far more attractive to us than any of the many parcels we looked at from real estate listings. 

As others have mentioned, I get as much or probably more satisfaction from the many improvements we have made over the years than I probably get from hunting. I have also had 3 timber sales over the years which not only helped develop the habitat, but they also funded the improvements, and more, from the proceeds.

We purchased the first 80 acres 26 years ago. To date we have tagged 27 bucks between 3 1/2 and 5 1/2 years of age. While I am sure that others have enjoyed better results, this is far better hunting than I ever experienced hunting public lands or even the private property lands at camps where I had previously hunted.

Yes, it has cost a lot of money and required a lot of labor but I have zero regrets and have never looked back. When my wife and I are gone I expect that my son and his family and friends will continue to enjoy the fruits of our labor. 

I feel very privileged to have been blessed with the opportunity to be a steward of a small part of God’s creation.


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## On Target (Jun 10, 2007)

My next step was going to contact a realtor that specializes in rec land. I thought I'd put this post out first to see if I was living a pipe dream. Can anyone recommend one they were happy with? I never thought about land that wasn't for sale, I think that could be something worth pursuing also.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Buy Land, they ain't makin no more. Location, location, location. 

I predict a LOT of land will be bought, sold, and transferred in various ways, in the next 5 years. Record amounts. Think about where you'd like to own for a long period of time, and then find the property that best suits your needs in that area. With record low rates, now is a great time to invest in property you'll own for a long time.


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## Whitetail Freak (Nov 10, 2008)

On Target said:


> Thanks for the responses so far, much appreciated. Habitat work is definitely on the pro side. I know I would really enjoy that part of it. I would like to be able to at least put a travel trailer on it to stay overnight. My biggest question is if I could find a good piece in the 40 acre neighborhood for around 100k. I did see a couple places that check most of my boxes near white cloud, but I've never thought of that area as big buck land.


Make sure you can place a camper on the land then. I’m in a no camping township and a new neighbor found out the hard way. I now have a new neighbor.


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## Big Tuna (Mar 29, 2017)

On Target , At 55 your not a spring chicken anymore. But your decision depends on how young at heart you are and if you want to still follow your dreams.
I have always had those dreams and took the big plunge when I was 32. In 1989 I bought a 160 acres of prime hunting and farming land with a old farm house and barns for $88,000. Swamp land back then sold for 1 to 3 hundred dollars a acre. 105 acres were tillable that I rented out to a no til farmer so my property taxes and insurance's are paid for from that rent money. And I have quite a chunk left over for a few other outdoor hobbies.
I can go on and on but for over 30 plus years I have enjoyed , raised my family and now greatly enjoy it with my 4 young grandsons. I continue to dream and have made plans that my stomping grounds will be passed on to them to enjoy with future generations.
I suggest you make a plan, follow your dream if you truly have a passion for wildlife and the outdoors.


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## retired dundo (Jul 21, 2015)

One thing I would do is try to talk to future neighbors.Usualy after talking a little you can tell what they are like


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## CrankyThunder (Feb 11, 2012)

Dear On Target:

I own a cabin on 80 acres completely surrounded by Federal Land an hour or so north of you. I have owned it for 25 years and there are lots of things to consider.

Maintenance: I need to winterize my cabin and with the weather for deer season, I usually have to partially winterize it twice or three times before deer season and then after deer season. If I use it after deer season, it needs winterizing again. I have improved the plumbing so that now it is self draining but when I first got the place I had to blow it out with a air compressor. right now it needs a new roof and paint/stain on the outside. I thought that doing that stuff myself would not be such a problem but it is a bit more of a issue then it was when I was younger. Hiring contractors to do the work is not a good solution either.

Access: Mine is on a seasonal road so after December or so, snowmobiles or atv's are the only way in and out. It is a mile hike to the nearest plowed road where I can park which is deep in the woods. I have parked at the party store and also at various trail access points but security is a issue when leaving vehicle overnight.


Tresspassers/Security. I have trail cams set up as a makeshift security system. You would be surprised at how much human activity occurs deep in the woods on private land. I have also had a number of thefts throughout the years. Most of the time it is something small like a couple propane tanks or a grill left out at the fireplace. Twice they have done significant damage the cabin that required extensive repairs to the windows and doors. Make provisions to transport anything of value, firearms, chainsaws, atv's, hand tools, generators etc. They have even taken building materials from my property. Do not expect much cooperation from the local police even when you have a trail cam picture of the thief, their vehicle, License plate number, and a picture of your propane tanks in the back of their truck as they are leaving your property.

Taxes: The local government see vacation property as a cash cow and milk it for all they can. Figure that you will need to contest every assessment out of principal.

dont bother trying to rent it out to alleviate some of the costs. I tried that a couple of times and it just was not worth it.

Utilities: I am fortunate whereas my cabin is off the grid, all electricity from a generator. From what I hear, there is a minimum monthly electric charge to provide electric service if you need it. I also have propane and wood heat. The propane company stopped delivering saying that I did not use enough propane to justify the large tank so now I heat and cook with 40 pound propane tanks and also wood stove. Consider your options with propane.

Policing: it is amazing how many long lost friends and friends of friends will turn up around fishing and hunting season. Some people will take advantage of your hospitality and some will cross the line. Most will not but some will. Be prepared to ban some people from your property if they misbehave or do not make a good hunting partner. I was surprised at the few that I had to prohibit access to, long time friends that simply changed from when before I had the property. 

Junque: Cabins in the woods are magnets for trash. Some of it will be your own trash like grills that were replaced but still work but most will appear from either your buddies vehicles or they must of walked there from the locals. One of these days I am going to load up all the steel and haul it to the junkyard in my trailer and make a fortune.

Trash: Basically you gotta burn it and haul out all the stuff that is not burnable. I considered burying the non burnables and may reconsider that.

Empty drink containers: this will be more of a issue then you can imagine. None of your guests will remove the drink bottles and cans and it will be up to you to gather them up and haul them to the returnable spot at the store. I have had more then $300 dollars in returnables after deer camp but most years average $200.00. Most places have a $25 limit on returnables so multiple trips are required to finish unpacking and cleaning up after a long weekend up north. 


All in all I have enjoyed my hunting cabin and intend to retain it for the foreseeable future. As a investment, it has not appreciated as much as I would like and the annual costs are more then I suspected. I would do it again but it was more then I thought when I first got it.

Regards,
Crankster


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## Lazy-J (Apr 11, 2019)

OT. I was in your same situation about 12 yrs ago. Wooded hunting land was selling for $2,500 - $4,000 per acre in Midland co. Way out of reach for me. I did 3 out of state hunts with outfitters & realized mostly frustration. In the end I think it all comes down to your budget and available free time. Crunch some numbers. If you were to pay 200K for a 40 acre parcel, how much in property taxes are you looking at? And remember that any building improvements will increase taxes and that you will also pay more tax if it is not your permanent residence. I'm not sure that 40 acres would be enough land to satisfy your goals. I ended up buying a small property in the western U.P. and built an 800 sq ft cabin with access to thousands of acres of public land within a few miles. My property taxes are currently running about $1,800. Per yr. Looking back, it was a good decision. I'm happy to be able to see more deer than hunters and have been able to take some decent bucks. Good luck.


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## fishdip (Dec 29, 2010)

I bought my 40 then 10 years later bought my 30 acres butted up to each other on land contract.I set up the contract so i payed one lump sum due December 15 each year as opposed to monthly payments in case something happened to my job i would have all year to save up the money.Good luck and enjoy the excitment.


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## d_rek (Nov 6, 2013)

$5k an acre doesn't sound too extreme. If it's buildable land that doesn't require an extreme amount of improvement I wouldn't be surprised if the price per acre ticked up a little higher. 

If it's raw, unimproved swamp that would require tens of thousands in land improvement to make it buildable... throw them an offer below the $5k/acre. They're sitting on land, not gold. 

I believe you can marry your hunting goals with your home ownership ones... but you may have to compromise on one versus the other. Probably have that talk with your wife. 

If it were me and I already had a home I was happy with AND it was paid off... go buy some vacant hunting land. 40acre would probably be the minimum unless it's dynamite property. Don't put any structures you don't want taxed on it, unless you want small living quarters to stay on during hunting season. Improve the habitat at your leisure. Enjoy owning your own land.


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## tdejong302 (Nov 28, 2004)

You may want to post on this forum in the realestate section that your looking at buying. Do some leg work on your own instead of using a realtor it will save you thousands.. Tax sales each August offer numerous hunting parcels at reduced values. Trailer on property will save you a ton in taxes. Non homesteaded properties as mentioned are cash cows for tax assessors. Especially Schoolcraft county in the u.p. If you can find treed properties close to ag fields your set. jmo. Feel free to pm me about tax sale properties.


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## paragonrun (Dec 16, 2009)

You're living a pipe dream in Kent County. Your going to have to go north then think about travel time, equipment etc.


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## Walleyze247 (Mar 20, 2009)

White Cloud and Big Rapids have plenty of big buck genes in the pool. I have cousins that live in the area. They purchased 80 acres of mostly wooded/covered not ag. They went to LaPratt's boot camp and purchased a backhoe. They are killing great bucks every year now.


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## Nickbarg83 (Oct 2, 2018)

Is go big look for 80-120 acres yes up from costs are scary then look into having someone come pay you to clear some of it depending on the trees on that property at this time you can dang near get paid enough to pay off your land and only give up 5-10 acres of woods but in 2-4 years have the best habitat for deer bedding/midday feeding on the clear cut just something to look into that’s what I plan on doing buying 80-100 and logging 5-10 acres to recoup some of the money plus build my next house on


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Kent is pricy.
And North of there you (As most anywhere) will encounter SPECULATORS!
Remember , asking price has absolutely nothing to do with a parcels selling price.
Waif has seen things. Frightening things!

Average askings East of WhiteCloud on baseline( or whatever road it is before getting beyond small parcelville) were asking around an avg. $24000 /10 acres a few years ago when I was looking..
These were tens that your odds of killing mature bucks were....Well , you'd have to see the parcels and look into the area...

You'll go 100,000? Then apply that to parcel size , per parcel that catches your eye.
I went the other way ,( though under a small parcel being recognized as where I'd end up. )
X amount per acre would be my max. for good deer land.
And there was/is a lot of crap land , and crap conditions surrounding suck too..

Do not be in a hurry. Hey , if a ultimate site turns up don't blow it off of course , bit by looking at many parcels you'll get better at getting an idea of potentials. And it could be one in ten properties acceptable for a project. Note , I did not write , suitable for killing mature bucks.

And now that mature bucks has been mentioned , let me caution you.
You drop 100,000 on a parcel and enjoy the non homestead taxes ect..
Hunt it a couple years and wonder where the mature bucks the seller had on cam ,and later you got a couple pictures of disappeared to.

One thing that will clobber your chances is poaching. 
I know few folks bring it up or worry about it.
But I've seen where I lived North of Kent before what a couple poachers can do to mature bucks in an area.
I'm talkin night time big antler killing as a perverted hobby , and while one used a truck , another used a yard light.
How are you going to know?

You are looking for a niche. And it's not an easy one to locate , let alone buy.
You get with deer land specialists , you're going to want to know non hunting land sell prices in the same area. I've seen some outrageous asking prices , and some sell!

I'll agree improved deer habitat has value. When it's my wallet , I'm not interested in paying four times what a similar parcel goes for , in theory. Never say never , but am I going to be happy killing my first mature buck on a new property (when/if) for 400,000+ dollars?
Or my tenth for 40,000+?
Or my 100th+ (that's a lot of mature bucks!)at 4000+?

My advice ,(worth a Nickle) is look at lots of parcels. Start today.
Include what is around it.
And...How do you learn "what else is goin on?"


You're welcomed to visit my little postage stamp. Exercise you're estimating value by putting a estimated price on it , of your creation.
I looked at parcels. And boy did I learn.
Myself setting a max. price (on small parcels) per acre for decent deer habitat helped.

I could spend 100,000 on a hunting parcel. Maybe within a year.
I could not guarantee a mature buck regular though.

Getting tucked in (not hangin out on an edge with kill em all assassins beyond..) a CO-OP with a proven track record should up the odds. But it's still a numbers game , and (for example) twenty members with five shooter bucks among them is....a one in four chance if one kill per is an agreed on number. Your tolerance of odds after a few years will be affected (like it or not) by what you have into it.


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

I purchased property late summer. First season hunting it was a learning curve but I managed to tag a buck. I used to belong to a club, the hunting was good but I knew how the deer moved. My new place I had no acorns or plots. No idea what to expect other than no drama or people trying to tell me how to hunt. It worked out for me and I'm happy I took the plunge.


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

Buying land was one of the best things I ever did. Yes there are down sides but the ups have been far better. Lots of them listed in above posts. Doing habitat improvements and shaping the land has been rewarding and time well spent. If you aren't afraid of a little sweat and labor go for it. It will be a great journey.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

And it will come up , soil will be a huge factor in the better parcels.
No substitute for the better soils in a region. At least cost time and labor wise.


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## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)




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## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

Whitetail Freak said:


> Make sure you can place a camper on the land then. I’m in a no camping township and a new neighbor found out the hard way. I now have a new neighbor.


Pole barn that stores the camper inside solves that problem. More money? Heck yes. Worth it?? Unequivocally. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


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## tdejong302 (Nov 28, 2004)

Spartan88 said:


> I purchased property late summer. First season hunting it was a learning curve but I managed to tag a buck. I used to belong to a club, the hunting was good but I knew how the deer moved. My new place I had no acorns or plots. No idea what to expect other than no drama or people trying to tell me how to hunt. It worked out for me and I'm happy I took the plunge.


Same boat as you and same feelings.


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## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

Lots of great suggestions. 3 of them that I didn't mention that I strongly agree with are:

1). Waif - Patience. Don't be in a big hurry to buy the wrong parcel. I waited a long time to get those I really wanted. 

2). Waif - Soil. It is a whole lot easier (and faster) to start out with good soil than it is to build it. Good soil usually = Good Antlers.

3). Sniper - Pole Barn. If it doesn't have one ... plan on building one soon..


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## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

Is it a must you have to have property to build on it to?? That needs to be decided first. That could make a big difference in the type of property and it’s location. I have property with no intentions of building because where it’s at. I’m good with that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

sniper said:


> Pole barn that stores the camper inside solves that problem. More money? Heck yes. Worth it?? Unequivocally.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


Some places will not allow a pole building/garage to be built before a house is.


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## Flight of the arrow (Feb 11, 2008)

The whole idea of contacting the present owner of a parcel you are interested in really works. There was a 5 acre parcel that I wanted so I found out who owned it, he lived in Louisiana. Got his phone number and he said no thanks, 5 months later I owned it.
Flight


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

Lots of real world ideas and experiences on this thread. and loads of good suggestions. We moved to MI in 1998. It was my dream to buy my own hunting land, with deer, turkey, and grouse/wc to hunt. We looked for a solid year and walked over 50 properties FS. Finally settled on a 120 acre piece in the West Shore area. It had it all and the seller was eager to sell. (He had gotten into financial trouble) It was 75 miles from our home in TC. I did not find that too far to drive to hunt or work on the property. We ended up selling to the next door neighbor who had bot the 80 at the same time as our piece. We made good money on selling that parcel a couple of years ago. And secured hunting rights on the 120 for five additional years for turkey, birds and deer (first three days of rifle season, etc). This is Addendum #1 on the Warranty Deed. We would do that deal again in a heartbeat. 

In your shoes, I would buy the best 40 or more that I could handle. And enjoy the ride. I enjoyed the habitat improvement/ projects as much or more than the hunting in some cases.


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

stickman1978 said:


> Some places will not allow a pole building/garage to be built before a house is.


This is becoming more and more common, even in rural/farming communities. We were able to live without it and enjoy our property just the same.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

I'm guessing that in Michigan, hunters account to the ownership of the vast majority of properties of 40 acres or more. 

I bought the my U.P. hunting lands in 1995-1997 for about $400 per acre. I just bought a 40 in 2020 that is the same type of half high, half low, undeveloped wood lands for 26K, which I consider about the average price for that type of land in my area. Not much of an increase in values in my neck of the U.P.


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## On Target (Jun 10, 2007)

I found a piece I may be interested in. First off, I have to find out if i can actually build on it up front by the road. Any suggestions on what the cheapest housing would be? I've been doing some internet searching the past few nights and have become a little depressed about it. It appears the price to build is around $100/sq ft. A small 1000 sq ft house being 100k seems very high to me. I'd also need at least a 32 x 40 polebarn for my toys. I have to look into township ordinances, but I could even live in a mobile home if they allowed it. The ultimate dream would be like a pole barn/house like the lakoskies. Not sure what something like that would cost. I really only need a 2 bedroom, 1 bath. I would want a pretty large living room type area as an entertainment/mancave type area for all my mounts. If I sold my house for 180k, could I get the structures I'm looking for for that? Well, septic, power, lot prep, concrete would also have to come out of that. The price of land is separate and not part of the 180k I'm referring to above.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

If it were me I'd postpone and major building projects until building costs drop down to reality. Can always stay in a camper or tent temporarily.


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

You would probably have to do most of the work yourself. That's how I got mine but that was a long time ago.


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## 3X8 (Oct 4, 2019)

I don't think you can get anything for 100 bux a sq ft now days.


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## bwlacy (Jul 10, 2012)

You better get some bids. I don't know anyone building that low anymore. More like $170/sq and up. You might also have a hard time building a 2 bedroom with your bank. Hard to get comps for yours to appraise high enough.


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## pgpn123 (May 9, 2016)

There's homework to do, but you're in a good spot. If you had to borrow, rates are low and you can opt for short term payoff. Definitely get a minimum 1 1/2 baths.


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## Maple_Ridge (Mar 1, 2013)

One thing you could to do to help is to GC the build, if you ran that part of the home build I heard you can save 30%?


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## Tilden Hunter (Jun 14, 2018)

All this talk of home build prompts me to add that I prefer to hunt on my land that is not part of my home. In fact, if I had my 'druthers my camp land wouldn't have any buildings. Just another perspective.


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## kroppe (May 7, 2000)

Wow 100+ posts in one week. I haven't read them all.

A way to avoid being upside down is to pay cash.

A way to avoid both being upside down and property tax is to lease.

I have had good luck leasing. Leasing also secures you against reduction/loss of interest or ability in deer hunting. Age, health or other obligations can mean a season or two with no hunting. When leasing, there would be no expense. When owning, property taxes still need to be paid.

I don't see a down market for real estate coming soon. I also don't see hunting property as a strong investment, unless it is on the fringe of residential or commercial development. But if that was the case the price would be far higher than your $2.5k per acre target, and you would be bidding against developers and speculators.


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

One thing that you can do is buy the property and build a pole barn. Then start buying the material needed to build your house when it is on sale. It takes time but the house is paid for when all of the materials are in the garage.


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## On Target (Jun 10, 2007)

Tilden Hunter said:


> All this talk of home build prompts me to add that I prefer to hunt on my land that is not part of my home. In fact, if I had my 'druthers my camp land wouldn't have any buildings. Just another perspective.


I'm Dutch, and will be retiring hopefully within the next 7 years. I think part of making this work long term is not to have 2 separate properties to being paying taxes on, especially not rec property taxes. Like said earlier, I don't need anything fancy to live in, just a pole barn for toys, and a man cave for hanging out with buddy's, and a place to put my toys. I think I will end up wintering in Florida once I retire.


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## kroppe (May 7, 2000)

p.s. You can't control who your neighbors will be in the future. And you have very little control, or none at all, over who your neighbors would be when you purchase the property. An exception to this is to buy land in high priced territory on a parcel surrounded by very large adjacent parcels. 

While needles are indeed found in haystacks, the combination of requirements for this endeavor seems challenging.


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## On Target (Jun 10, 2007)

kroppe said:


> p.s. You can't control who your neighbors will be in the future. And you have very little control, or none at all, over who your neighbors would be when you purchase the property. An exception to this is to buy land in high priced territory on a parcel surrounded by very large adjacent parcels.
> 
> While needles are indeed found in haystacks, the combination of requirements for this endeavor seems challenging.



You are very correct in your statements. That is a very big risk I'm concerned about. Apparently within the last year there has been no neighborly issues on the property. To be fair, I have not knocked on alot of doors for leasing, but what little I've done hasn't been very positive. I'm more less thinking if I don't do it now, I never will. Also thinking about my 2 boys to have a good place to hunt when I'm gone.


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## NbyNW (Jun 30, 2012)

On Target said:


> I'm Dutch, and will be retiring hopefully within the next 7 years. I think part of making this work long term is not to have 2 separate properties to being paying taxes on, especially not rec property taxes. Like said earlier, I don't need anything fancy to live in, just a pole barn for toys, and a man cave for hanging out with buddy's, and a place to put my toys. I think I will end up wintering in Florida once I retire.


Quite a few properties up north have a pole barn and they park a trailer inside the barn. I’d make sure you are friends with your neighbors if you’re leaving all your stuff in a barn all winter.
Current building prices are very high due to a combination of demand and an increase in building materials. There are plenty of guys I know that can’t find good help either, as the government is paying too much to keep the help from helping. Long delays as well. Unique world we are in.


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

Martin Looker said:


> One thing that you can do is buy the property and build a pole barn. Then start buying the material needed to build your house when it is on sale. It takes time but the house is paid for when all of the materials are in the garage.


Many places will not let you build a PB until you have built a substantial house on that property. Found that out the hard way........


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

The rules change depending on the county and township you are in.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Finding someone up north to build at $100 to $200 per sq ft was hard the going rate was closer to $300 per sq ft 6 years ago for a quality home.


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## old graybeard (Jan 19, 2006)

One thing is sure. You can worry yourself to death about all of the what ifs and end up never doing anything or you can make the move and start now to live your dream. You will never have complete control of the what ifs. We only get so many years and every year you put off doing something the closer to the end you get and the more expensive it will get. If you want it go for it.


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## May-39 (Jan 14, 2005)

If you have your eyes WIDE OPEN to worst case scenarios and still want it, go for it. At some point you will have "that neighbor." There will be trespassers, line sitters, poachers, nature of the beast. You will be bombarded for permission. Unless you get a bunch of ground, you wont be able to allow all the people you wish you could to hunt on your land. Not knocking it at all. That said, CELL CAMS have made a world of difference. My pal solved a LOT of mysteries on his 180 with a cell cam. Caught a township employee trespassing, the local handyman most folks used on that road-road hunting and many other shenanigans. My farming relative gave me great advice years back. Don't let anyone on a new parcel for two years. This provides time to kick off the prior permission (or not) holders, clearly establish ownership and figure the property and neighbors out a little.


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## RedM2 (Dec 19, 2007)

Luv2hunteup said:


> ...land properties have not fully recovered from the Great Bush Recession drop.


I'd say it had more to do with legislation allowing folks to obtain loans who had no business doing so, but I digress... it'll be interesting to see how land prices shake out over the next 20 years.


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## bowhunter1 (May 12, 2003)

old graybeard said:


> One thing is sure. You can worry yourself to death about all of the what ifs and end up never doing anything or you can make the move and start now to live your dream. You will never have complete control of the what ifs. We only get so many years and every year you put off doing something the closer to the end you get and the more expensive it will get. If you want it go for it.


Nine pages of responses and only two mentioned age. We are not guaranteed anything when it comes to life expectancy. You're not going to get any younger, if it's something you really want to do, then do it!

I'm in my late 70's. Purchased 120 acres with 3 others for $5,500 in 1973. It has no buildings, and will never have. It's 45 minutes from my driveway to our parking lot. Can't even begin to tell you how many hours I've spent on the property. Wouldn't trade these experiences for anything and my share will be passed on to my sons.


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## May-39 (Jan 14, 2005)

With regards to building: First, I have a 4x4 tractor with loader and attachments. A 2500 truck and pal's 20 foot trailer to haul materials/equipment.
Remember: when the "house" is done, you have a house in bare earth, two track driveway (full of nails), a huge pile of trees and rootballs, no yard, window treatments, deck, fence, etc etc. If you have to hire all that done, oh my it's gonna hurt.
I diy a lot of stuff. I'm slow and picky, emphasis on slow.
I have friends/family in various trades. Bids locked in 02/18. House started 08/18, done 03/19. I can assure you that current sq foot prices are nearly double what I paid. Much of the savings wasn't the labor. It was where to get good "x" or "y" the cheapest, This included stone countertops over an hour beyond several other options.
Another example, in a hurry for 6 composite boards same as other 40. Ordered through HD. Paid 20% more. They bought it from place I bought other boards from 60 miles away, still had other yard's stickers on boards. But HD paid someone to deliver it next day to local store. cracked me up.
Truss builder said materials up 80-90% from 2019 depending on week. (pole barn plan-now on hold indefinitely)
In October '20, building supply planner showed me a table full of manilla files. All cancelled build orders for '21. Said material prices are too much some beyond construction loan approvals.

Now is NOT the time to build a house. Good trade people are worth their rate. Material prices are outrageous right now.
Just be fully aware of what building a house requires in addition the "the house"

"Up north" friends don't have luxury of driving two hours to save on materials. heck they drive an hour just to get to big box store and god help them when they need another couple boards or spool of 12/2 "real quick"


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## May-39 (Jan 14, 2005)

Important note for land and house owners. 
Demas Yoder at Mid Michigan barns built me a 12x16 "she shed" for WAY LESS than my material quote to DIY. Amish place just north of Jays in Clare. Very nice, Everything super square and on center. They build deer shacks too. My pal just had a real big one delivered and it's his two person camp. very well built good product.


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## ryan-b (Sep 18, 2009)

May-39 said:


> With regards to building: First, I have a 4x4 tractor with loader and attachments. A 2500 truck and pal's 20 foot trailer to haul materials/equipment.
> Remember: when the "house" is done, you have a house in bare earth, two track driveway (full of nails), a huge pile of trees and rootballs, no yard, window treatments, deck, fence, etc etc. If you have to hire all that done, oh my it's gonna hurt.
> I diy a lot of stuff. I'm slow and picky, emphasis on slow.
> I have friends/family in various trades. Bids locked in 02/18. House started 08/18, done 03/19. I can assure you that current sq foot prices are nearly double what I paid. Much of the savings wasn't the labor. It was where to get good "x" or "y" the cheapest, This included stone countertops over an hour beyond several other options.
> ...


150% correct. Materials prices are insane. Hell a 2x4x8 and Lowe’s costs over 5.50 out the door! That not even choice that’s out of the crap sorter bin that used to cost 2.49 back in September. Half in osb at 25 a sheet! Ive heard of very large builds ( warehouse types) being put on hold because the cost of sheeting cut to far into the budget.


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

Luv2hunteup said:


> Finding someone up north to build at $100 to $200 per sq ft was hard the going rate was closer to $300 per sq ft 6 years ago for a quality home.


Nicely appointed new houses in and around Traverse City are listed for around $300 a square foot right now.


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## May-39 (Jan 14, 2005)

NATTY BUMPO said:


> Nicely appointed new houses in and around Traverse City are listed for around $300 a square foot right now.


I'm sure


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## May-39 (Jan 14, 2005)

If you were evil genius and single (or want to be), you should sell whatever house you have right now for top dollar and move into something tiny and cheap you will turn into a rental when this market bombs. My pal is seriously considering this right now, his birds dogs wont mind.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

NATTY BUMPO said:


> Nicely appointed new houses in and around Traverse City are listed for around $300 a square foot right now.


Not surprised one bit. Are those new builds or existing homes.


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

Luv2hunteup said:


> Not surprised one bit. Are those new builds or existing homes.


LUV2,

These are brand new houses in an existing sub in Garfield TWP, next to the Crown GC. We live right down the road and are watching them as they are built.

NB


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## ryan-b (Sep 18, 2009)

NATTY BUMPO said:


> Nicely appointed new houses in and around Traverse City are listed for around $300 a square foot right now.


I live just W on the GT/Benzie/Leelanau line. Land is also starting at 10k per acre over here. It’s nuts here! There is a vacant 21acres for sale down the road. No electric no water for 279k. 2.6 acres not far for sale for 59k. When we move we will be moving out of the area and commuting to work in TC. Can no longer afford it up here. Half the pay for a view of the bay is a very real thing!


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## old graybeard (Jan 19, 2006)

bowhunter1 said:


> Nine pages of responses and only two mentioned age. We are not guaranteed anything when it comes to life expectancy. You're not going to get any younger, if it's something you really want to do, then do it!
> 
> I'm in my late 70's. Purchased 120 acres with 3 others for $5,500 in 1973. It has no buildings, and will never have. It's 45 minutes from my driveway to our parking lot. Can't even begin to tell you how many hours I've spent on the property. Wouldn't trade these experiences for anything and my share will be passed on to my sons.


Exactly! I'm lucky to live on mine and get to enjoy it everyday


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## Nickbarg83 (Oct 2, 2018)

I’d look into a metal frame pole barn then add in living quarters the price of metal hasn’t gone up as much as lumber especially treated because your paying an arm and leg for treated and that’s if you can find it concrete isn’t planned to go up that much this year if you need help in do this for a living and wouldn’t mind giving you a hand or a quote even


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## Groundsize (Aug 29, 2006)

Just imagine how good of hunting you could have if you found a lease in Illinois? Not far from you! Two buck tags, and cheaper then ownership. Plus you can lease more land then you will buy. 
Question is what do you want to own the land for?


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## motdean (Oct 23, 2011)

Groundsize said:


> Just imagine how good of hunting you could have if you found a lease in Illinois? Not far from you! Two buck tags, and cheaper then ownership. Plus you can lease more land then you will buy.
> Question is what do you want to own the land for?


In my opinion, there would be 2 reason to own the land:

1. You can do whatever you want on it without having to ask permission.
2. It is an investment. ...as long as the appreciation of the value is higher than the taxes that you pay every year, you are ahead.

There are downsides too, but those are the two reasons that I can think of for ownership over leasing.


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## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

Groundsize said:


> Just imagine how good of hunting you could have if you found a lease in Illinois? Not far from you! Two buck tags, and cheaper then ownership. Plus you can lease more land then you will buy.
> Question is what do you want to own the land for?


I don’t even know you anymore! Lol. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


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## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

motdean said:


> In my opinion, there would be 2 reason to own the land:
> 
> 1. You can do whatever you want on it without having to ask permission.
> 2. It is an investment. ...as long as the appreciation of the value is higher than the taxes that you pay every year, you are ahead.
> ...


I can think of 100 things better to own rather than lease.. #1 and most important. I’m the boss! Enough said. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


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## pgpn123 (May 9, 2016)

Groundsize said:


> Just imagine how good of hunting you could have if you found a lease in Illinois? Not far from you! Two buck tags, and cheaper then ownership. Plus you can lease more land then you will buy.
> Question is what do you want to own the land for?


Good question. I think if one is going to live on the land, like the OP, it's even easier to decide. Being able to reasonably drive to work, I'd recommend it. (prices in the country are going up with more being able to work from home) You get homestead taxes and you're going to enjoy it 365 days. Like a regular house, the feeling when it's paid off is remarkable. They tend to increase in value.

Leases can be tricky. Affordable ones are harder to find. They can raise the price. You read about them being pulled right before season. Can't always make improvements, and would you really want to make long term ones.


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## Get'nLucky (Oct 30, 2011)

For god sake when you contact a realtor do not contacts Whitetail properties.. 
“Look a deer was shot here once so its prime hunting property” ... “let me be a dual agent”... then they dont even show up for closing... what a joke.

also as important as the property are the neighbors... and you can burn out an 80 easy. 
Do you have kids that will share the work and jou of doing it with you?


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## tdduckman (Jan 17, 2001)

So here is my opinion: 

if all you want to do is hunt deer and that is all you enjoy do not buy land, however if you enjoy: 

1) hunting other stuff like turkeys, ducks, squirrels, rabbits etc and would use the property for that then maybe
2) If you enjoy working on a tractor doing habitat work for Habitat sakes then maybe
3) if you enjoy fishing and there is a water feature that allows that then maybe
4) If you enjoy watching your investment and work grow and change over time then maybe



My point is if I "just Deer hunted" I would not own land, but I get play on my tractor, build habitat, fish in my pond, hunt turkeys in the spring, find mushrooms, hunt geese, ducks and grouse, and enjoy watching wildlife year round, so therefore the cost is worth it to me. 


Your mileage may vary 

TD


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

tdduckman said:


> So here is my opinion:
> 
> if all you want to do is hunt deer and that is all you enjoy do not buy land, however if you enjoy:
> 
> ...


A lot more could be added to that list.

Cut fire wood
Place for kids to snowmobile
Rides quads
Camping
Observe all kinds of wild life
Plant fruit tree
Plant berries
Plant nut trees
Shoot guns without going to the range
I'm sure I missed a few.


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## On Target (Jun 10, 2007)

These last couple posts bring up a question I've been thinking about. My main reason for buying land would be for a better chance than I have now for shooting a mature buck. With that in mind, how much activity can you really do on your land you're trying to turn into a sanctuary. I can see where the human intrusion working a food plot or doing some other habitat work to better its deer appeal could out weigh some intrusion. But beyond that shouldn't you stay off to keep the deer relaxed and walking in daylight. It seems kind of boring to only stay in your homestead next to the road and not be on the land much. Where's the fine line?


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## Osceola (Jul 21, 2016)

On Target said:


> These last couple posts bring up a question I've been thinking about. My main reason for buying land would be for a better chance than I have now for shooting a mature buck. With that in mind, how much activity can you really do on your land you're trying to turn into a sanctuary. I can see where the human intrusion working a food plot or doing some other habitat work to better its deer appeal could out weigh some intrusion. But beyond that shouldn't you stay off to keep the deer relaxed and walking in daylight. It seems kind of boring to only stay in your homestead next to the road and not be on the land much. Where's the fine line?


In my experience, and I've heard the same from other reliable sources, you can enjoy your property all you want outside of hunting season. Shoot, ride ATVs, hike, scout, cut firewood, plant food plots, etc. The time to eliminate human activity is September and on.


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## ice house (Dec 27, 2017)

deer are over hyped, when was the last time some offered you free beef. I would never buy land without a revenue source from the land , farm land rent, wind turbine rent , oil and gas lease etc.


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

On Target said:


> These last couple posts bring up a question I've been thinking about. My main reason for buying land would be for a better chance than I have now for shooting a mature buck. With that in mind, how much activity can you really do on your land you're trying to turn into a sanctuary. I can see where the human intrusion working a food plot or doing some other habitat work to better its deer appeal could out weigh some intrusion. But beyond that shouldn't you stay off to keep the deer relaxed and walking in daylight. It seems kind of boring to only stay in your homestead next to the road and not be on the land much. Where's the fine line?


The worst thing that happened on my place was over hunting and bad access. Fixed them two things and hunting improved substantially.


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

Osceola said:


> In my experience, and I've heard the same from other reliable sources, you can enjoy your property all you want outside of hunting season. Shoot, ride ATVs, hike, scout, cut firewood, plant food plots, etc. The time to eliminate human activity is September and on.


All true here.


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## Tilden Hunter (Jun 14, 2018)

On Target said:


> These last couple posts bring up a question I've been thinking about. My main reason for buying land would be for a better chance than I have now for shooting a mature buck. With that in mind, how much activity can you really do on your land you're trying to turn into a sanctuary. I can see where the human intrusion working a food plot or doing some other habitat work to better its deer appeal could out weigh some intrusion. But beyond that shouldn't you stay off to keep the deer relaxed and walking in daylight. It seems kind of boring to only stay in your homestead next to the road and not be on the land much. Where's the fine line?


To add to your question I'd like to know what, if any, restrictions hunters have on their own dogs on the deer hunting land they live on. I don't live on my hunting land, and I don't own a dog, so I'm curious.


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## On Target (Jun 10, 2007)

Osceola said:


> In my experience, and I've heard the same from other reliable sources, you can enjoy your property all you want outside of hunting season. Shoot, ride ATVs, hike, scout, cut firewood, plant food plots, etc. The time to eliminate human activity is September and on.


That is good to hear. I just figured if you have prime bedding it would be good to stay away all the time. Piece im looking at is 220 x 880, and you can only get so far away from bedding up front when going to the back end. Outfitter in Ohio told me he stays 150 away from bedding. Is that a consensus distance?


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

Tilden Hunter said:


> To add to your question I'd like to know what, if any, restrictions hunters have on their own dogs on the deer hunting land they live on. I don't live on my hunting land, and I don't own a dog, so I'm curious.


I do not own dogs but my neighbors do. Visit my house, bark at me when I am out back doing habitat work, etc, had two people knock on my door this year trying to find their owners because they were out running the roads. Even eat my gut piles. If I owned them I would do the same, off limits Sept. on.


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## old graybeard (Jan 19, 2006)

Wow. Hard to believe that anyone anywhere would ever buy a piece of land when it's this complicated. Good luck with your decision.


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

If you really need to shoot a big deer go to a game ranch I hear they have some big ones there.


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## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

Tilden Hunter said:


> To add to your question I'd like to know what, if any, restrictions hunters have on their own dogs on the deer hunting land they live on. I don't live on my hunting land, and I don't own a dog, so I'm curious.


Our Springer has been gone for 12 years now and we never got another dog. When we did have her we did our bird hunting on state land - never our own deer hunting property. Too bad maybe as we have excellent grouse numbers but we didn't want to shoot ourselves in the foot by stomping all over our deer hunting grounds and shooting the place up just prior to deer season.

My son has a Lab which is welcome to come here with him any time of the year except deer season. Caught my neighbor exercising his dogs on my property as he rode his side by side with the dogs running along behind him. Gates went up shortly thereafter which nipped that in the bud.

Another neighbors' Border Collies show up on my scouting cameras from time to time. It aggravates me but there is little I can do about dogs running at large. Just heard a few days ago that one of the dogs has a litter of pups but hasn't been home in a couple of days so they put out the word to be on the lookout for it. It is probably sitting in somebody's coyote or bobcat trap which only need to be checked every 2 days so maybe it will show up yet. People that let their dogs run free unsupervised also aggravate me.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

I have dogs and so do my neighbors. Mine are generally speaking within site at all times. My neighbors on the other hand are not. I see them quite a bit when out and about. Bear hounds used to be a bigger problem, along with their owners, than my neighbors dogs ever have been. Yes it bothers me but not nearly as much as mother nature’s predators do. Wolves, coyotes and avian predators are just too high in these parts. It has gotten to the point where I’m concerned for the safety of my dogs so they no longer are with me when I’m working on my property. I don’t like having to carry a gun for their protection. Trespassing by bipeds happens too but is rare. 

Even though I know I’m not alone none of that deters me from being a land owner of primarily deer hunting property. The positives far out weigh any negative. Life is way too short to not own something that brings me so much joy along with piece of mind. My suggestion is to buy as much land as you can afford and spend as much time as you can doing the things that bring you happiness. One day you may regret not doing that and those regrets never go away.


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## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

Here is just another illustration of how much I love owning my own land...

One day my ashes will be buried here at Lone Oak. I've already built the family cemetery and (sadly) one brother and one sister are already here. Our priest came out and consecrated the ground and celebrated memorial services for both of my siblings and I am confident he will do the same for me.










With a little help from my father-in-law, I built my own urn from a Big White Pine that went down on my property in an ice storm about 10 years ago. I had it milled into lumber and have built quite a few projects from its wood.










I still have to buy my headstone but I keep thinking I've got plenty of time for that ... 

This will be my view to the west and NW:










Deer often bed under the Hemlocks here...which is why I refer to this ground as "Hemlock Hill".


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Wild Thing said:


> Here is just another illustration of how much I love owning my own land...
> 
> One day my ashes will be buried here at Lone Oak. I've already built the family cemetery and (sadly) one brother and one sister are already here. Our priest came out and consecrated the ground and celebrated memorial services for both of my siblings and I am confident he will do the same for me.
> 
> ...


You've plenty of stones to choose from among the piles there...

If a person likes to scratch in the dirt and sculpting a landscape with an eye to the future , and see the short term results ranging from success to failure , (along with speculating on other results long after thier gone) they'll like owning land.

I fail more than suceed in planting if measured by bumper crops. 
Satisfies my desire to play / work in the soil though.
I bought land primarily to have some privacy while hunting. Reduced hunter numbers in sight specifically.
Tweaking it and modifying it on the small scale so far on the/that small property just enhances it a little.
Only a patch of range for any given deer in the area.
But come spring early summer I'll be all inspired again when a fawn track shows up.
Hoping it not only survives, but is healthy.
If it's (that fawn) not my future hunting , it will be someone's. As will the property. Maybe...


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## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

Waif said:


> You've plenty of stones to choose from among the piles there...
> 
> If a person likes to scratch in the dirt and sculpting a landscape with an eye to the future , and see the short term results ranging from success to failure , (along with speculating on other results long after thier gone) they'll like owning land.
> 
> ...


You are right Waif. We do have a lot of dandy stones around here which could save me money instead of marble...one of which I can see up on the next ridge in the last photo I posted. We pushed it up there with a dozer but I'm sure I could find a way to retrieve it and then maybe do a little engraving. Great idea!


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## ryan-b (Sep 18, 2009)

On Target said:


> That is good to hear. I just figured if you have prime bedding it would be good to stay away all the time. Piece im looking at is 220 x 880, and you can only get so far away from bedding up front when going to the back end. Outfitter in Ohio told me he stays 150 away from bedding. Is that a consensus distance?


The whole lot size is 220x880?


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Wild Thing said:


> You are right Waif. We do have a lot of dandy stones around here which could save me money instead of marble...one of which I can see up on the next ridge in the last photo I posted. We pushed it up there with a dozer but I'm sure I could find a way to retrieve it and then maybe do a little engraving. Great idea!


With proper documentation of your service provided , the V.A. will provide a bronze plaque.
If recalled right for Dad , there were two options.
One was to attach to the stone , and the other to place flat on the ground. (?)


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## On Target (Jun 10, 2007)

ryan-b said:


> The whole lot size is 220x880?


Yards yes. Like a typical 80 split down the center length wise. Long and narrow.


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## StevenJ (Feb 11, 2009)

I didn't read the entire thread, but I want to mention my experience.

I bought 40 acres with a 1200 sq. ft. clubhouse cabin in 2007 for $120,000. The former owners were a brace beagle club. We didn't use a realtor and the former owners got nearly all of that, cash. 

It was zoned Agricultural. After I purchased it the assessment for tax purposes (non-homestead) was reset at $180,000. With an SEV (assessment State Equalized Value) of (90,000). The county assessor resets long held properties after a sale. I then went to the Board of Review in the county and lobbied for the SEV to be lower. Based on getting a form, which I don't recall the name of at this time but it is has a term/name that realtors know, a form the county assessors office has their data on, that they base their assessment on. On that form, my land was described as/called "good woods", as in timber. But that was not actually what I would conclude it was. Also, I searched some county data bases and with knowledge that the water table was high on my place, and I have a private drain running through that passes to the county drains on the road, that seasonally it was what I claimed 30% wet, or swamp. The water table drops 4 feet or so in the summer. But I took some printed maps labeled with wet areas into the Board of review and showed them and lobbied for a lower assesment. They ruled in my favor and dropped the SEV to $80,000 from $90,000. (The SEV is half the value of the total assessment.)

And they didn't switch the designation from Agricultural to Residential. I think I lucked out there. (Don't tell anyone, OK?) I have 3 acres frontage and just over 35 acres out back. Because of how the roads run not squarely laid out I'm gypped a bit and run about 38.33 acres total. I don't know if I meet the guidelines for Qualified Agricultural Exemption:

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/Qualified_Agricultural_Prop_139854_7.pdf

My non- homestead taxes run about $2000 in the winter (due Aug/Sept. and $1000 in the summer (Due Feb.).

Another thing/factoid is that I had problems with the septic field about 10 years ago. I had a nearby neighbor who did septic/excavation work re-do the septic field. He put a second holding tank in, repaired the line coming out of the clubhouse and put in a new drain field with rocks and sand. I did this under the table and paid $5000, didn't pull a permit or record it with the county. (And don't tell on me or rat me out, OK?). I don't know what will happen if I sell the property in regards to me or the new owner having it checked or registered or tested. The frontage with the cabin and the septic field works fine and is robust. It sits on a spit of more sandy soil than the wet clay/mesic land out back (as determined by county soil maps).


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