# Crossbows in Michigan



## atp500 (Feb 6, 2007)

I have been hunting with a crossbow now for 2 years. IMO there is more to it than with than with a vertical, heavier to carry, cumbersome to maneuver around in the woods, etc. There is no "slam dunk" in hunting. Just because he used a crossbow has nothing to do with his success. If he used a vertical, would you be against that? Comparing it to a muzzle loader, come on get real. Ethical shots with the crossbow still need to be within 40 yards or less.
Sounds like a little jealousy to me. If it was you with the 2 bucks shot with your vertical, we would be seeing your story.
Ken


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## craaaig (Jan 13, 2011)

I think fcuk it the whole world is going to **** might as well kill as many good bucks as ya can while the gettin is good!!! Lifes to short to not take advantage of killing two bucks any way you can!!! I don't use a cross but as far as I'm concerned whatever blows your hair back is fine with me as long as it doesn't directly affect me I don't care what anyone does. I have to many problems of my own to be worrying about other people!!


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## PaleRider (Oct 24, 2007)

coldskins said:


> ]*I cant beleive you are trying to compare a cross bow to a muzzle loader there is no comparison 30 to 40 yds is nothing compared to the 150 to 200 yds with todays muzzle loaders*[/B] and harvesting two bucks with a cross bow is no difrent than harvesting two bucks with a regular bow and i dont feel I dont use a cross bow but i dont feel that they are any better than a bow they still limit how far you can shoot if any thing your more likely to hit a deer at a farther range with a bow than you are with a cross bow cause every cross bow that i have heard shot is relatively loud making it more likely for a deer to duck the strig at longer ranges and i know of people with scopes on their bows and a release has a trigger to just my two cents and my opinion i dont mean any disrespect but i dont think you have an argument have a good day and good luck hunting


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

After all, 25 years of allowing crossbows has damn near destroyed the "genetics" of the deer herd in Ohio, right?................

Oh...........wait a minute...........


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

Pinefarm said:


> Neal's only waiting for some more smart-*** comments directed towards him by others so he can reach his "strikes issued" quota.


Not a smartass comment directed at anybody. Just thought it was funny in an ironic way.


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## Rick Martin (Aug 22, 2007)

#1Shot said:


> Question: Now that Crossbows are gaining popularity for the "normal" hunter do you think it will decrease the deer genetics furthere?
> 
> Case in Point: The Post "One day,Two for the wall" was using a crossbow to take down two really nice bucks. Now those deer probably have not even bred a doe yet this year and have been removed from the gene pool.
> 
> ...


 I can't help it, I feel the same way. It was a sad day when it was made legal for crossbows to be used in archery season. Seem like anything to make it easier to take a deer and to sell more liences. I'm 67 years old and I remember when you even had to sharpen you own broadheads. I just don't know how anyone could be proud of killing a deer with a crossbow. I used to have a friend that hunted with me on my property untill he bought a crossbow. He is no longer invited.


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## bfaili01 (Apr 6, 2010)

jimmyo17 said:


> Crossbows are weak if you arnt physically impared in some way you should be ashamed to pick one up and say your a bow hunter
> 
> Ready to shut it down now? haha
> 
> Let me also say i dont know the guy who shot the 2 bucks or his situation (why he uses the crossbow) so i have no comment on that


 
you know what your right a real mans man shoot a vertical bow with NO LET OFF.


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## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

brookie1 said:


> Not a smartass comment directed at anybody. Just thought it was funny in an ironic way.


 
That was the intent.


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## perchyanker (Jan 26, 2011)

I am a crossbow owner and I would of liked the crossbow season to start on Dec. 1st. It definitely gave me a edge and everybody else that uses them. I use my crossbow mostly Cuz I can. Just like the Guy that shot 2 wall hangers in one day. He more then likely did it Cuz he can. So shut up and go buy a crossbow because u can

_OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors_


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

#1Shot said:


> Plus Crossbows are so fast that by the time a deer even hears the sound, the arrow is probably through him/her


Lol.


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## skip tumalu (Oct 1, 2011)

I passed on a buck at 45 yrds last night with my xbow because I don't practice 45 yd shots. Really no different then when I hunted with a compound.

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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

Will taking deer in cornfields alter the gene pool with or without a xbow?ne_eye:
Im with Neal IBTL


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## Skibum (Oct 3, 2000)

I don't use a crossbow and my reaction to D.C.U.P. shooting two bruisers on the same day is "Awesome!". I'd feel the same if it were with a traditional bow, compound, or firearm. That story has nothing to do with the weapon. It is purely a guy who had a magical day when all the stars aligned for him.


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

skip tumalu said:


> I passed on a buck at 45 yrds last night with my xbow because I don't practice 45 yd shots. Really no different then when I hunted with a compound.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Did your compound have a trigger,safety, and a scope :lol:


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## PaleRider (Oct 24, 2007)

Munsterlndr said:


> Looks like you should be in favor of banning 1982 Eagle compound bows, too. :lol:
> 
> http://erstarnews.com/2011/10/27/four-days-after-learning-to-use-bow-and-arrow-he-bags-big-buck/


:lol: 
I remember the first time I went bow hunting. I borrowed my buddies recurve, (there was no such thing as a compound bow then) shot it a few times and seemed pretty proficient with it. I hit the Pigeon River state forest just outside of Mancelona and while kneeling down to look for a good spot to sit out walks a doe at about six yards. I drew the bow back and let the arrow fly striking the doe just behind the shoulder, I think to myself this is too easy. Upon checking the place where the deer was standing I found my arrow with a few hairs stuck to the broadhead. I concluded I only pulled the arrow back far enough to reach the target. As I was scratching my head and still looking at the arrow out walks another deer and busts me.....so began my love of bow hunting.


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## buck37 (Aug 8, 2002)

Crossbows are here to stay. I think alot of people are better off with crossbows because they're easier to shoot and easier to be proficient. So maybe we have less wounded deer during archery season. Cause I knew so people that had no business being in the woods with a vertical bow, but are better hunters with a crossbow.


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## GrtWhtHntr (Dec 2, 2003)

What affect does shooting two large bucks have on the gene pool??? I don't know what bucks you're referring to, but my guess is that they were large because they were older, not because of superior genetics. Those bucks were once button bucks and carried the exact same genes then that they did when they were older and "trophies". I would dare to say those two bucks have been breeding does since they were 1.5 years old, so their genes have been spread. Your post just lacks any form of intelligence. Sorry if I'm harsh, but that's my view. And what is the relevance of the weapon they were killed with?


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## #1Shot (Jul 7, 2006)

Munster - crossbows are not the problem. The hunting regulations in the state of Michigan is the problem. Im in favor of the earn a buck program as I stated before. 

Jealous about a crossbow? No. Shooting two bucks in one day? No. The "one day, two wall hangers" guy...stated he has passed on many bucks since 1999. H8LL yeah he deserves this why? HE MANGAGED HIS DEER HEARD TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY LIKE THAT!!!! GOOD FOR HIM

BUT...when the rules were changed from having to be disabled to any Joe can use a crossbow is when I was shocked. I personally will not use a crossbow until I'm disabled. 

The Truth: Crossbow hunting brings in more license revenue for the state of michigan. In our current economic condition, the sport of hunting needs as much money as possible to enforce the rules of hunting. At one time I know there was 2 CO's for all of Oakland county. This was learned after I was checked on Walled Lake while ice fishing for my license. BUT THAT IS A WHOLE NEW CAN OF WORMS when it comes to CO's.


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## tubejig (Jan 21, 2002)

jimmyo17 said:


> Did your compound have a trigger,safety, and a scope :lol:


Mine does, and NO, deer don't jump into my freezer because I own one.:lol:


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## bounty hunter (Aug 7, 2002)

Pass on those mature deer so they can breed and wack them little guys. Or maybe just leave them for certain people who feel there the chosen ones?


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## D.C.U.P. (May 24, 2002)

Sib said:


> ...Losing your religion. Sorry, REM song came to mind when you posted that. :lol: Those are some nice deer, congrats.


That's exactly what I had in mind when I posted that. Warped minds think alike! :lol:

Thanks for the props. Once-in-a-lifetime day, IMO. I've spent the past 5 years trying to figure out the bucks on this property out. I think it paid off this year, my 6th season.


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

Rick Martin said:


> I just don't know how anyone could be proud of killing a deer with a crossbow.


Wow. You must really look down on the 500,000+ firearm hunters come November 15.


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## coldskins (Sep 26, 2011)

> #1shot crossbows are not the problem. The hunting regulations in the state of Michigan is the problem. Im in favor of the earn a buck program as I stated before
> 
> If crossbows aren't the problem you shouldnt have started this thread by attacking them and the people who legaly us them and comparing them to muzzle loaders genetics have nothing to do with what weapon someone uses or when and how bucks are killed you should have ran a thread like what can/should we do to change the regs on harvesting two bucks or i am insupport of the eab and this is why....


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## coldskins (Sep 26, 2011)

> brooki1 Wow. You must really look down on the 500,000+ firearm hunters come November 15.
> 
> ]


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## oldrank (Dec 5, 2006)

Control by tags not by weapons... that simple. I want the most accurate, precise, pinpoint deadly weapon in my hands everytime i head to the woods. It makes it much easier for a quick humane kill. I still only get 2 buck tags be it weather I kill a deer with a rifle, muzzleloader, crossbow or a spear.


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## coldskins (Sep 26, 2011)

off suject how do you guys get you quotes like that mine are difrent i just cut and paste thanks


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

gillcommander said:


> Why isn't there a bigger fuss about NLP and UP hunters being allowed to use rifles and not forced to use shotguns or muzzleloaders like those in the SLP...talk about a distinct advantage!! :rant:


 guns are a big advantage either way i have a old remington 12gauge i can shoot 100 yards with. The new shotguns and shells they are coming out with are capable of shooting 150 yards it really doesnt matter if you see it 9 times out of 10 you can shoot it if you have a gun in your hand


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## craaaig (Jan 13, 2011)

I think the earn a buck program is ridiculous, you think it is a proposition to help balance out the herd? So before any hunter shoots a buck they must first shoot a doe? And then what? The doe must be taken to a check station and then you will be issued your buck tag? Or will you be issued the doe tag at the same time as the buck tag and it will be up to the hunter to be honest and shoot a doe before the buck? Who is going to monitor and enforce this? How are you going to tell a 12 yr old kid that he is not able to shoot the buck that he sees on opening day because he has failed to shoot a doe first? How are you going to tell the experienced hunter that he must pass on a buck of his lifetime because he has failed to shoot a doe? Where would the money come from to set up these season long check stations within a reasonable distance from all hunters? Or should hunters have to drive 45 min to the check station to check in their doe and receive their buck tag? Did you think of any of this before you thought of the earn a buck program? Is the doe that must be taken going to cost the hunter another 15$? I just don't think the positive would out weigh the negative in this situation!


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## SNAPPY (Feb 13, 2004)

coldskins said:


> off suject how do you guys get you quotes like that mine are difrent i just cut and paste thanks


Or you could just click the "quote" tab.


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

laterilus said:


> You realize you can and many many bowhunters use a release (trigger). A scope, yep you can get those for your verticle bow also. The safety on my cross bow is as loud as a firearm safety.


 I knew some bright guy would compare a trigger to a release last time i checked my release came seperate from my bow. Also i dont just lay my bow on the gun rail and when a deer comes within range put my crosshairs on them and pull the trigger. I have seen very few people with scopes on their compounds and imo its stupid and should be illegal. SCOPES GO ON GUNS NOT BOWS. Also i really dont know why it matters how loud your safety is, you shouldnt have a safety if you were really bow hunting.

Just to let you guys know i used a crossgun last year but it was during GUN SEASON.


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

coldskins said:


> off suject how do you guys get you quotes like that mine are difrent i just cut and paste thanks


 Yep click the quote tab and type whatever you want outside the brackets


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## mcfish (Jan 24, 2010)

Every guy that pisses on the crossbow users should be required to post pics of his long bow that he constructed himself, along with the string, arrows and stone heads that he made himself. 

Without the aid of modern technology.

What a crock of $*#&.

Run what you brung, and don't tread on me.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

I'm not saying xbows aren't "easier" than compounds, because I think they are easier. But not that much easier than compounds as far as the killing part goes. Easier if health issues are a concern, but not much easier in creating blood trails at the end of the day.

I have otherwise healthy friends that went and bought xbows. They quickly found them to be a real pain in a treestand, bulky, heavy, etc. 
However, they are silly accurate out of the box. 

I personally have no interest in shooting either a compound or a xbow. I specifically gave up compounds because I found the challenge to be lacking, after shooting one for so many years.

I wouldn't shoot a xbow unless I was totally unable to draw a 35lb longbow back. 

I have virtually no problem with anyone using a xbow, who can't draw back a bow due to any health reasons. If I broke my arm next September, I'd find a way to get my hands on a xbow for that season.

In the grand scheme, I heard so many "wounded/lost" stories in my some 13 years in the sporting goods business, that I think many people should almost be forced to use a xbow. For example, if you don't bring your bow out until say September 25th or worse, once season has started, then you need to use a xbow. You owe it to the animal.

Many guys, one could argue far too many, have little business being in the deer woods due to the lack of practice they've put into their bow shooting. For those guys, who insist on going out, I think xbows are the best option. 

And in case anyone wonders, I don't care for xbows. To me, using a xbow is like a guy using a "black rifle" when one could use a fine bolt action. 

But that's just my opinion. To me, the aesthetics of using either a xbow or super tech compound vs a traditional bow are like comparing a microwaved Hot Pocket to a fine dish prepared by a master chef. 

Again, that's just my opinion.

I've posted this in the traditional forum, but it bears repeating because I believe so many get so focused on the destination that they totally neglect the wondrous journey. Some are so focused on the destination that they want to completely skip the journey and that's kind of sad.

To paraphrase Henry David Thoreau...

"Many men go deer hunting all of their lives without knowing that it is not deer they are after." 

Going traditional is as much about the journey as it is the destination.


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## old graybeard (Jan 19, 2006)

I'm quite fund of HotPockets


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## coldskins (Sep 26, 2011)

sbooy42 said:


> Yep click the quote tab and type whatever you want outside the brackets


 I think i got it never seen them maybe i should get my script checked thanks


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## weatherby (Mar 26, 2001)

I would like to see a 5 day muzzleloader season open oct 1st before bow season like Kansas


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## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

old graybeard said:


> I'm quite fund of HotPockets


I disagree and have no repect for those who like Hotpockets:rant:


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## huntfishhurt (Jul 9, 2010)

I heard that they are trying to pass a rule that the rifle guys cant use any thing over a 30-30 because it is a disadvantage to the deer, that you can shoot such far distance's and in the lower you can only use a 410g with a smooth bore barrel.

If it is legal who cares what people use, this is beating a dead horse to death and then giving it cpr to beat him to death again!!


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

I'm fond of Jack In The Box taco's and miss their absence in Michigan. 

Following up on what I posted above, today's xbows and compounds are disposable. In a few years, none of them will have much value. A 10 year old compound is like a 10 year old computer. Xbows are no different. The xbow one buys today will be worth .10 on the dollar in 5 years.

Compare that to a nice, well made longbow or recurve. Nothing about them is going to change. Like a well made shotgun or rifle of yester-year, you can actually hand down a longbow to your son, daughter or grandchildren with pride. And the people receiving it will actually be happy about getting it.

Who's going to be happy about a 15 year old handed down xbow, compound or computer? 

They're disposable weapons in a disposable world. I'm not trying to offend anyone, that's just my take on the whole thing.


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## old graybeard (Jan 19, 2006)

Neal said:


> I disagree and have no repect for those who like Hotpockets:rant:


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

jimmyo17 said:


> It doesnt matter you already missed the party
> Whats your take on crossbows?


Riva's very concerned about the effect crossbows have on those who wear khakis. Unlike the original deep thinker that started this thread, Riva's not very concerned about jeans.

Did I get that right Riva?


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

jimmyo17 said:


> It doesnt matter you already missed the party
> Whats your take on crossbows?


 
The real party was quite a while ago... this is like happy hour


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## basshunter125 (Mar 31, 2011)

#1Shot said:


> Thanks for the response and opening my eyes
> 
> Tag rebuttal: I buy the combo license, and would take two nice bucks if I could...not my point. I would love MI to have a earn a buck program. That way people could get there meat and still have a greater opportunity at a dream buck
> 
> ...


How would you limit powder? Most people use pyrodex....


=BASS


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## Riva (Aug 10, 2006)

November Sunrise said:


> Riva's very concerned about the effect crossbows have on those who wear khakis. Unlike the original deep thinker that started this thread, Riva's not very concerned about jeans.
> 
> Did I get that right Riva?


To the contrary...I am very concerned about jeanetics!


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

November Sunrise said:


> Riva's very concerned about the effect crossbows have on those who wear khakis. Unlike the original deep thinker that started this thread, Riva's not very concerned about jeans.
> 
> Did I get that right Riva?


 
Set, Match. Lock it up, make it a "sticky" cause there is no way anybody is gonna top this post. Well done NS!


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

Pinefarm said:


> Who's going to be happy about a 15 year old handed down xbow, compound or computer?


:lol: Well the guy in the story I linked to that used a hand-me down 1982 compound to shoot a 183" buck seemed pretty happy about it. :lol:

What does your rambling have to do with this thread again?


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## Baybum (Jan 9, 2008)

Riva said:


> To the contrary...I am very concerned about jeanetics!


Ah yes now we come to the hotly debated topic of jeanetics. To some a deer shot while wearing khakis is not as big of an accomplishment as one wearing jeans. The khaki user gains an unfair advantage in comfort and style while in the woods. The fabric flows too freely and silently over ones skin in the crucial moment of positioning for the kill shot. In addition the khaki allows for a much more silent walk to stand and a hunter reduces his movement using them as he has to adjust himself less. I too am a khaki user and have been looked down upon by my hunting brethren. Worse yet to them my khakis are camo and cargo pants thus I gain the advantage of easy access to my hunting tools and don't need to carry a day pack in with me. My rebuttal to jean users is if you want a real hunting experience ditch the jeans and go all out and wear corduroys. Khakis are legal in Michigan and I will continue to use the tool that offers me the best chance to harvest an animal.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## CarnageProductions13 (Mar 11, 2011)

Im glad to see this thread hasn't completly jumped the tracks...oh wait

crossbows are still a stick and a string so legally its still archery, lets move on.

as far as bonney shooting flaming "arrows" goes its all fun and games till someone lose's an eye. :lol:


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

Baybum said:


> Ah yes now we come to the hotly debated topic of jeanetics. To some a deer shot while wearing khakis is not as big of an accomplishment as one wearing jeans. The khaki user gains an unfair advantage in comfort and style while in the woods. The fabric flows too freely and silently over ones skin in the crucial moment of positioning for the kill shot. In addition the khaki allows for a much more silent walk to stand and a hunter reduces his movement using them as he has to adjust himself less. I too am a khaki user and have been looked down upon by my hunting brethren. Worse yet to them my khakis are camo and cargo pants thus I gain the advantage of easy access to my hunting tools and don't need to carry a day pack in with me. My rebuttal to jean users is if you want a real hunting experience ditch the jeans and go all out and wear corduroys. Khakis are legal in Michigan and I will continue to use the tool that offers me the best chance to harvest an animal.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Dude only girls wear khakis








Unless of course your name is rick
Then you might want to try something like this


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## Jigin-N-Grinin (Jan 22, 2008)

Im leaving the office and going home now....laughing my ***** off:lol::lol:

This reminds me of the ice fishing forum.


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## #1Shot (Jul 7, 2006)

swampbuck said:


> Did you ever consider that his deer management was a lot bigger "making it easier" factor than the x-bow.


Yes


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## boomer_x7 (Dec 19, 2008)

i want to know if 1. Since everyone seems to make it a point that a crossbow is technically a "string that shoots an arrow" :when the archery season lengths were being decided was the crossbow included in the decision ( also a full-auto firearm is still a firearm, maybe we should allow those too, maybe RPG's for next season.....). And 2. why not a pistol season.... Shoots about the same distance but actually requires skill to effectivly hit the target.... 3. why cant i use a spear. I can use a bow, crossbow, rifle, shotgun, pistol, and blackpowder at certain times why cant i use a damn spear!!!!


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## Riva (Aug 10, 2006)

boomer_x7 said:


> i want to know if 1. Since everyone seems to make it a point that a crossbow is technically a "string that shoots an arrow" :when the archery season lengths were being decided was the crossbow included in the decision ( also a full-auto firearm is still a firearm, maybe we should allow those too, maybe RPG's for next season.....). And 2. why not a pistol season.... Shoots about the same distance but actually requires skill to effectivly hit the target.... 3. why cant i use a spear. I can use a bow, crossbow, rifle, shotgun, pistol, and blackpowder at certain times why cant i use a damn spear!!!!



Boomer, with all due respect, this thread is about crossbows and jeanetics. I damn near altered my own jeanetics dragging my buck out of the picker bushes last week. Going forward, we can no longer refer to it as DNA. Rather, in the deer hunting community, it hence-force to be referred to as KNA, short for KhakiNucleic Acid.


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## bounty hunter (Aug 7, 2002)

Riva said:


> Boomer, with all due respect, this thread is about crossbows and jeanetics. I damn near altered my own jeanetics dragging my buck out of the picker bushes last week. Going forward, we can no longer refer to it as DNA. Rather, in the deer hunting community, it hence-force be referred to as KNA, short for KhakiNucleic Acid.


Riva is da man..nice buck chef Riva. but lets see the picks of the dishes you whip up with the beast..


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

#1Shot said:


> Plus Crossbows are so fast that by the time a deer even hears the sound, the arrow is probably through him/her


Watch this video:





!


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

If you have power point, check out slides 8 and 9 here:

http://www.tenpointcrossbows.com/doc...013009_000.ppt.

Read more at Michigan-Sportsman.com: Crossbow kill range - Page 3 - The Michigan Sportsman Forums http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/f...&highlight=crossbow#post3579968#ixzz1cghWPzYB

If not, check out this video:
http://www.tenpointcrossbows.com/video_trajectory.asp


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## PaleRider (Oct 24, 2007)

bioactive said:


> Watch this video:
> 
> Q1 Big Buck Pole: Compound vs. Crossbow - YouTube!


What does this have to do with khakis?


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## Riva (Aug 10, 2006)

PaleRider said:


> What does this have to do with khakis?


You're right. Has absolutely nothing to do with Khakis and/or jeanetics. Let's get back on topic. Thanks






BTW all you guys that purchased $150 "fleece" camo pants from BassPro or Cabelas.. Well, just remember the name of the fabric (fleece). :yikes:


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## weatherby (Mar 26, 2001)

I go with that too 



Justin said:


> I would like to see a traditional season with bows and muzzys...no scopes and patch roundball only. No inline. Maybe the same weekend of the youth hunt.:idea:


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## PaleRider (Oct 24, 2007)

Riva said:


> You're right. Has absolutely nothing to do with Khakis and/or jeanetics. Let's get back on topic. Thanks
> 
> Carhartt Men's Canvas Khaki Relaxed Fit Pant (B299) - YouTube
> 
> BTW all you guys that purchased $150 "fleece" camo pants from BassPro or Cabelas.. Well, just remember the name of the fabric (fleece). :yikes:


Wow Amy, don't be mess'n with my inseams.


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## CarnageProductions13 (Mar 11, 2011)

weatherby said:


> I go with that too


I like that idea!


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

Now let's look at my personal experiences:

post # 73 here: http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3075876&highlight=crossbow#post3075876

Post number 90 here: http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3077775&highlight=crossbow#post3077775



> Here is some reality about arrow speed with a crossbow. And a crossbow shoots an arrow by the way, just who
> 
> I reviewed the 4th seasons of "Deer and Deer Hunting TV" the other day. They showed slow motion video between where the deer was when the compound bow released, and where it was when the arrow missed over its back. The deer dropped 14 inches between release and arrival. It appeared to be about a 30 yard shot. They froze framed where the deer was and where the arrow made impact. It would have been a perfect shot if the deer had not moved.
> 
> ...


I actually did shoot a nice buck at 30 yards the other day with my crossbow, but I worked hard and practiced a lot to get to that distance. I tried one shot beyond 30 yards on October 3rd this year, a 140 class 10 point, missed a few inches to the right, hit the shoulder, and never recovered the deer. With a ML that deer is dead 100% of the time.

Here is a thread I posted in 2009 that gives my initial impressions of the advantages and disadvantages. http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2779835&highlight=crossbow#post2779835

I have to say that the idea that you have to draw a bow vs. raising a crossbow to shoot is nonsense. I can lift my compound bow off the hanger and keep it vertical, draw back and shoot, and create very little profile for the deer to catch. However, when you swing a crossbow off the hanger you create a huge profile. Here is my experience the other day:



> Fourth, when I saw him he had veered into the crp field behind me, I had not expected him to cross my wind but to come up it, so I had to turn quite a ways for the shot, and he caught me. Bill teaches to never have a stare-down with a deer you intend to shoot. I just kept slowly moving into position, got him on the second reticle with my crossbow, and squeezed off. My instincts in the past would have been to freeze when he spotted me. Bill says that the buck almost always wins that game.
> 
> Read more at Michigan-Sportsman.com: Team #18 "November Reign" - Page 9 - The Michigan Sportsman Forums http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3850752#post3850752#ixzz1cgnPuLXx


Crossbows and compound bows are pretty much equal. Moat compound bow hunters do everything in their power to make things "easier" with 80% let-off, silencers, loops, peep sights, glowing fiber optic sights, "trigger" release. It is absolutely ludicrous to say that a crossbow has different killing capability than a compound bow. 

For a very long time in Ohio there has not been a significant difference in harvest with a crossbow vs. a compound bow.

One of my first shots with a crossbow at 17 yards was a non-recovery because I hit a single goldenrod stalk in flight. Do you really want to compare a crossbow to a muzzleloader? I shoot a muzzleloader. I killed a 130 inch buck last year On November 15th with a muzzleloader at 133 yards. I saw the same buck a few days earlier at 70 yards with my crossbow in hand, he was wide open. He would have had to have been at half that distance for me to take a shot.

Your stance shows that you have no idea what the capabilities of a crossbow are. And what a life saver they are for guys like me, who are over 60 and have arthritis. Or my friend Jake, who broke his arm this year and cannot pull a bow. Or for anyone who for any reason wants to use the one weapon rather than the other after weighing the advantages and disadvantages of each.

I spend so much time on this because I really do sense you are seeking information, and not just fishing. 

There is a reason that a golfer, for the most part, can no longer compete on the tour after the age of 50. It is not because he cannot hit the ball and get to the green in regulation. It is putting that makes the difference. The nerves of a man over 50 simply do not allow the putter to flow. Same thing with a vertical bow. 

Why should anyone who cannot draw 70 lbs. be embarrassed to use a tool that makes him at least equal to a 20-30 something who can do so?


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## toots (Dec 8, 2001)

The tag system is the guilty party.


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## Baybum (Jan 9, 2008)

toots said:


> The tag system is the guilty party.


I am ok with that. I would be more than willing to give the Michigan DNR a couple extra dollars through the purchase of a khaki stamp.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## weatherby (Mar 26, 2001)

toots said:


> The tag system is the guilty party.


If we only knew how many nonhunting wives tags was put on a buck we would be shocked to say the least


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Does anyone remember the screen names of the guys who were so strongly against crossbows back during those days.....Just trying to figure out who the re-incarnation is....

There was...Rancid crabtree (Wisconsin), Soggybottom (he's back), Swampghost? (possible).....who else ?


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## boomer_x7 (Dec 19, 2008)

bioactive said:


> Crossbows and compound bows are pretty much equal. Moat compound bow hunters do everything in their power to make things "easier" with 80% let-off, silencers, loops, peep sights, glowing fiber optic sights, "trigger" release. It is absolutely ludicrous to say that a crossbow has different killing capability than a compound bow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1. if there is not much differance between the two, then why are people dropping there compounds and getting a crossbow???? Also people r picking up the crossbow that have never/or quit bow hunting

2. I dont think anyone has ever had problem with older or dissable persons using a crossbow. But its not just the elderly/physicaly challenged that r allowed to use them.

3. You dont have to pull 70# to kill a deer. Especially with all those "super high tech" bows that are "almost a crossbow these days.


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## bfaili01 (Apr 6, 2010)

Good old Hicks! Ive spent thousands of dollars there over the course of the last year alone and because of the way they slam crossbows and the youth hunt in general I will never go there again. I understand everyone has their own opinions but the things that are said about xbow hunters and the youthhunt in there are down right disrespectful.


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## awfulpotent (Oct 14, 2003)

#1Shot said:


> Thanks for the response and opening my eyes
> 
> Tag rebuttal: I buy the combo license, and would take two nice bucks if I could...not my point. I would love MI to have a earn a buck program. That way people could get there meat and still have a greater opportunity at a dream buck
> 
> ...


Muzzleloader rebuttal: I specifically stated to have a limited amount of gun powder. Not a full blown season. Plus Crossbows are so fast that by the time a deer even hears the sound, the arrow is probably through him/her

I dont believe crossbows give a hunter a great advantage over a regular bow the speed ratings are not much differant than a compound 320fps
sound travels at over 800fps so they are so fast the arrow hits before the deer hears it is a point to argue
they weigh more than a bow and are a lot larger the bolt weighs a lot less than an arrow shot out of a bow so you loose KE in turn means less killing power and less down range energy unless I become a cripple I will hunt with my mission bow 3.25lbs shoots 315fps with a full lenthg arrow that does a complete blow thru at 25yrds enjoy it and not worry about a guy using a crossbow 
I guess its like owning a 9mm handgun the movies made them cool but other than that they are useless if you want to shoot targets get a 22 if you wnat to hunt get a 44






Read more at Michigan-Sportsman.com: Crossbows in Michigan - Page 2 - The Michigan Sportsman Forums http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=398108&page=2#ixzz1chG23WlD


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

boomer_x7 said:


> 1. if there is not much differance between the two, then why are people dropping there compounds and getting a crossbow???? Also people r picking up the crossbow that have never/or quit bow hunting
> 
> 2. I dont think anyone has ever had problem with older or dissable persons using a crossbow. But its not just the elderly/physicaly challenged that r allowed to use them.
> 
> 3. You dont have to pull 70# to kill a deer. Especially with all those "super high tech" bows that are "almost a crossbow these days.


Look at the videos I posted above. It is a choice to use a crossbow or compound. Choosing one over the other is not very likely to improve your chances of killing a deer. You still have to be within 30 yards, quartering away, avoid the shoulder, not have so much as a 1 mm twig in the way.

It is not more of a difference than choosing a Hoyt over a Mathews. Some of us are willing to accept the trade-offs of a crossbow for the positives. For me, it is simply the fact that I am accurate to about 35 yards (now, after extensive practice) with a crossbow vs. about 25 yard plus with the compound. I practice regularly with both, but prefer the crossbow. However, I have to compensate for string jump with the crossbow at 35 yards by aiming about 3-4 inches low. With the muzzleloader, I do not have to compensate at all at 150 yards. If I have a rest, the deer is dead at 150 yards virtually every time. Without a rest, I am good to 70 yards. With a crossbow, I am good to 35 yards, with a compound bow, I am good to 28 yards or so. But that is just me. A twenty something with a good compound bow who knows how to shoot it has a huge advantage over me with a crossbow. 

To in any way shape or form compare a crossbow to a gun is totally ludicrous.


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

Bioactive come on now how can you say its harder to get away with lifting you crossbow without being busted than it is to pull back a compound without being busted that rediculus


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

awfulpotent said:


> Muzzleloader rebuttal: I specifically stated to have a limited amount of gun powder. Not a full blown season. Plus Crossbows are so fast that by the time a deer even hears the sound, the arrow is probably through him/her
> 
> I dont believe crossbows give a hunter a great advantage over a regular bow the speed ratings are not much differant than a compound 320fps
> sound travels at over 800fps so they are so fast the arrow hits before the deer hears it is a point to argue
> ...


I have calculated that a crossbow shooting at 300 ft/sec (you have to realize none of them shoot at the factory rating in the field) after the sound is heard by the deer, it is about 0.24 second before the arrow gets there at 30 yards. The time to 40 yards is almost doubled. Consider that the most high strung animal on the planet has 0.1...0.2...0.3...0.4 seconds plus to react. If you do not take string reaction into account, a crossbow shot at forty yards is just a chance to break your expensive arrow and broadhead as it hits the ground over the deer's back. 

Comparison's with guns are truly ridiculous. 

There is virtually no difference between a crossbow and a compound bow--although most tests show a slight advantage in kinetic energy for the compound bow. But it is not enough to worry about. If you can get 290 plus feet per second with a compound bow, you should probably go with it with the proper arrow. If you can't, a crossbow is a great choice.


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

bfaili01 said:


> Good old Hicks! Ive spent thousands of dollars there over the course of the last year alone and because of the way they slam crossbows and the youth hunt in general I will never go there again. I understand everyone has their own opinions but the things that are said about xbow hunters and the youthhunt in there are down right disrespectful.


 I dont mind hicks if you wanna go to a real joke of a shop go check out eds archery they can **** up anything you give them to work on in a matter of seconds


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

jimmyo17 said:


> Bioactive come on now how can you say its harder to get away with lifting you crossbow without being busted than it is to pull back a compound without being busted that rediculus


Try it for yourself. Get up in a tree. Put a crossbow on a hanger. Pretend a deer is coming in 90 degrees to your left. Practice picking up the bow and drawing, or picking up the crossbow and raising it to your shoulder. I am constantly thinking about this while on stand. It is a huge movement in either case, and you have about an equal amount of possibility of getting picked up. I think the slight advantage in the movement department is to the compound, since you are vertical all the way, pulling straight back, whereas the big profile of the horizontal crossbow has to swing towards the deer. The crossbow is heavy, weight forward, and I personally cannot hold it on the deer for as long as I can hold my 80% let-off Browning Illusion. However, I shot a nice buck the other night at 30 yards with the crossbow, and I probably would not have taken the shot with the compound bow. A few yards makes a huge difference for an old boy like me. That's the only reason that I choose the crossbow given its other disadvantages compared to the compound bow. 

Make no mistake about it. If you have actually used both, you will realize that there is virtually no advantage related to pulling back vs. pulling to the shoulder. But then, I believe you have not experienced both, as I have, and therefore are just imagining there is a big difference.


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

bioactive said:


> Try it for yourself. Get up in a tree. Put a crossbow on a hanger. Pretend a deer is coming in 90 degrees to your left. Practice picking up the bow and drawing, or picking up the crossbow and raising it to your shoulder. I am constantly thinking about this while on stand. It is a huge movement in either case, and you have about an equal amount of possibility of getting picked up. I think the slight advantage in the movement department is to the compound, since you are vertical all the way, pulling straight back, whereas the big profile of the horizontal crossbow has to swing towards the deer. The crossbow is heavy, weight forward, and I personally cannot hold it on the deer for as long as I can hold my 80% let-off Browning Illusion. However, I shot a nice buck the other night at 30 yards with the crossbow, and I probably would not have taken the shot with the compound bow. A few yards makes a huge difference for an old boy like me. That's the only reason that I choose the crossbow given its other disadvantages compared to the compound bow.
> 
> Make no mistake about it. If you have actually used both, you will realize that there is virtually no advantage related to pulling back vs. pulling to the shoulder. But then, I believe you have not experienced both, as I have, and therefore are just imagining there is a big difference.


 Actually i did use one which i said in a previous post (used it in gun season) the difference might not be much with a vertical bow but there still is a difference. Also i have no problem with people who shoot them because of halth problems but to be 20 or 30 years old and perfectly capable of using a real bow imo you should have to use either a compound or traditional bow period. But thats just my opinion. 

Before anyone says something about opinions i know so dont even get started lol


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

Anyone else remeber the more traditional times when guys got older and could'nt pull the recurve or focus on two points well, the did'nt just pic up a crossbow. It was off to kmart for the october marlin 22mag sale!


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## bfaili01 (Apr 6, 2010)

jimmyo17 said:


> I dont mind hicks if you wanna go to a real joke of a shop go check out eds archery they can **** up anything you give them to work on in a matter of seconds


of course ya dont your a xbow hater :lol: never had any work done at eds so I dont know. Pretty much have made franks in Linwood my one stop shop. I wil say that I have heard good things about eds just never made it in there.


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

jimmyo17 said:


> Actually i did use one which i said in a previous post (used it in gun season) the difference might not be much with a vertical bow but there still is a difference. Also i have no problem with people who shoot them because of halth problems but to be 20 or 30 years old and perfectly capable of using a real bow imo you should have to use either a compound or traditional bow period. But thats just my opinion.
> 
> Before anyone says something about opinions i know so dont even get started lol


Well, you have a sense of humor and appear to be humble. However, everything about the modern compound bow hunter involves trying to make it easier. From peep sights to fiber optic light collectors to releases, to stabilizers to 80% let-off. But the main whack on crossbow users is that they try to make it easier by not having to draw back.

So why exactly is it more of a challenge to kill a deer with a modern compound with all the shenanigans to make it easier, than it is to kill a deer with a crossbow, which in every test ever done comes out with slightly less kinetic energy and more drop over distance than a compound bow. 

There is only one class of hunters I will take seriously when they say that you are lesser because you make it easier, and that is the traditional bow hunter. If you shoot a compound bow with all the modern conveniences, and are young enough and strong enough to shoot an arrow at high speed, you have a distinct advantage over any crossbow hunter. So why diminish the achievements of those who simply choose to use a different form of bow for whatever personal reason?


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## bfaili01 (Apr 6, 2010)

jimmyo17 said:


> Actually i did use one which i said in a previous post (used it in gun season) the difference might not be much with a vertical bow but there still is a difference. Also i have no problem with people who shoot them because of halth problems but to be 20 or 30 years old and perfectly capable of using a real bow imo you should have to use either a compound or traditional bow period. But thats just my opinion.
> 
> Before anyone says something about opinions i know so dont even get started lol


 im 25 and am perfectly capable of pulling back a compound but I choose a xbow for the challenge. A challenge of explaining why I shoot one to every REAL hunter out there. :lol:


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

bfaili01 said:


> of course ya dont your a xbow hater :lol: never had any work done at eds so I dont know. Pretty much have made franks in Linwood my one stop shop. I wil say that I have heard good things about eds just never made it in there.


:lol: Ive actually never heard anyone say something bad about crossbows at hicks but yea i wouldnt mind if they did anyway.
I only live a few miles from eds and absolutely cant stand the place the works bad and they will shove a mathews with the most expensive sights,rests, arrows. etc right down your throat faster than you can ask the price on it. Thats one thing i cant stand. They must forget its not their bow its yours. ill go there for licenses and thats it.

If someone that works at eds is on here or owns eds archery dont come screaming at me cause i really dont care. Im just giving my expierience with the shop.


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

bioactive said:


> Well, you have a sense of humor and appear to be humble. However, everything about the modern compound bow hunter involves trying to make it easier. From peep sights to fiber optic light collectors to releases, to stabilizers to 80% let-off. But the main whack on crossbow users is that they try to make it easier by not having to draw back.
> 
> So why exactly is it more of a challenge to kill a deer with a modern compound with all the shenanigans to make it easier, than it is to kill a deer with a crossbow, which in every test ever done comes out with slightly less kinetic energy and more drop over distance than a compound bow.
> 
> There is only one class of hunters I will take seriously when they say that you are lesser because you make it easier, and that is the traditional bow hunter. If you shoot a compound bow with all the modern conveniences, and are young enough and strong enough to shoot an arrow at high speed, you have a distinct advantage over any crossbow hunter. So why diminish the achievements of those who simply choose to use a different form of bow for whatever personal reason?


 Im actually getting a traditional bow this week and im going to start practicing for next season or maybe even a late doe hunt. If you want to shoot a crossbow its legal and i cant say anything about it but i still dont like it.

By the way i like the scentbuster dust but cant use it no more or im gunna get my ass kick for making a mess. i actually had several deer walk across the trail i walked in on while using and not one of them even put their nose to the ground for a second

Edit: just because im getting a traditional bow i will not down anyone who uses other equipment it just sounds like a blast so im giving it a try


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## bfaili01 (Apr 6, 2010)

jimmyo17 said:


> :lol: Ive actually never heard anyone say something bad about crossbows at hicks but yea i wouldnt mind if they did anyway.
> I only live a few miles from eds and absolutely cant stand the place the works bad and they will shove a mathews with the most expensive sights,rests, arrows. etc right down your throat faster than you can ask the price on it. Thats one thing i cant stand. They must forget its not their bow its yours. ill go there for licenses and thats it.
> 
> If someone that works at eds is on here or owns eds archery dont come screaming at me cause i really dont care. Im just giving my expierience with the shop.


True True How would they scream? LIKE THIS!!!! I really dont care either maybe it will give them a lesson in being professional.


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

plugger said:


> Anyone else remeber the more traditional times when guys got older and could'nt pull the recurve or focus on two points well, the did'nt just pic up a crossbow. It was off to kmart for the october marlin 22mag sale!


A+, thanks for that!
FWIW, I think the 17's stole a lot of 22 market. 

Reading this thread, it amazes me how many people are so truly misinformed about the sport we enjoy, or just blatantly ignorant to the facts.

Weren't similar arguments made when compound bows and inline ml's were introduced? Step it back a few decades and I bet there were similar sentiments when scopes became popular, smokeless powder, maybe even when "minnie" balls were introduced. What about sabot slugs and rifled barrels? You smart guys help me out... doesn't a rifled barrel kind of make it a rifle? I mean, it's not shooting "shot" is it? I know a guy that dropped a buck at 202 yards with his shotgun & rifled barrel & Hornady SST last year. 

One thing is for certain in life. Change. Fight it and you're fighting a losing battle. If anything, Michigan was behind the curve by including xbows in the archery season. Xbows predate the invention of the compound bow by several centuries. I shoot a compound and feel I have more of an advantage with IT than my friend's $700 Tenpoint xbow I borrowed for a couple hunts last year when I injured my shoulder. 

Now guys, don't let facts get in the way of your opinions... carry on... makes for interesting reading. A little frustrating if you take it too seriously, but interesting nonetheless... sheesh.


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## Fred Bear (Jan 20, 2000)

I just cant figure out why someone would want to use a crossbow if they can use a real bow. This picture you guys paint of crossbow guys waiting on the right shot, waiting for the deer to get close enough etc ect ect is just not happening with the guys I know that ran out and got a crossbow "because now they are legal". These guys are taking shots at deer just like gun hunters. Running shots, head on, 60 yards away ect ect.
The guys I've heard of that got a crossbow are the same "get your deer" kind of guy. Whatever!! as long as MI has this brown its down mentality you are gunna have the lead slinger and now the bolt slingers. Michigan has no respect for deer and they ALL have a target on them. Now, I think the people on here have allot of respect for the deer and the weapon they choose. But sadly, the people on here make up the minority of hunters.


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

Since I have been hunting the sport has been ruined countless times. It started with guys showing up with scoped rifles that werent even lever actions, compoud bows,hunting from a raised platform, removing the patched round ball requirement on muzzel loaders. Late seasons, both bow and muzzel loaders, where you could just walk up on deer in the winter yards and shoot em all! Baiting, atv's, youth hunts, disabled hunts, multiple tags, over the counter doe permits, It's no wonder deer are extinct in michigan.


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

Fred Bear said:


> I just cant figure out why someone would want to use a crossbow if they can use a real bow. This picture you guys paint of crossbow guys waiting on the right shot, waiting for the deer to get close enough etc ect ect is just not happening with the guys I know that ran out and got a crossbow "because now they are legal". These guys are taking shots at deer just like gun hunters. Running shots, head on, 60 yards away ect ect.


I'm sure some people can't figure out why others choose to hunt with a compound bow or online ML too. Just because it's not your cup of tea, why knock it?

And yeah... I've NEVER heard of anyone taking a shot with a compound bow that was beyond their particular weapon, or personal capabilities. (that's sarcasm) Blame the weapon, not the individual. Isn't that a rallying cry of the gun grabbers???


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## DDay (Jun 18, 2008)

Love my Parker Crossbow and love my Martin compound.


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

plugger said:


> Since I have been hunting the sport has been ruined countless times.
> 
> It's no wonder deer are extinct in michigan.


Ruined for you, or improved for others...?

There are a couple fresh car kills every day on my way in to work. They must think that asphalt is some kinda foodplot. Thinking I might need to start hunting closer to the road. What is more effective, a Ford of a Chevy?


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

Quack Addict said:


> Ruined for you, or improved for others...?
> 
> There are a couple fresh car kills every day on my way in to work. They must think that asphalt is some kinda foodplot. Thinking I might need to start hunting closer to the road. What is more effective, a Ford of a Chevy?


 Ford or chevy is a toss up but but nothing connects easier than when I have the wifes new car!


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## Fred Bear (Jan 20, 2000)

as I left this alone for a few minutes, I got to thinking. I'm the kind of guy that has to have my hands on stuff. I know my bow inside and out. I tune it my self, I reserve my strings, tie my own D loops and make my own arrows. But it goes deeper than that. I study what makes it tick. From the actual bow and arrow down to my form.
I guess I just cant get the guy who buys a Corvette and thinks he is something because he has a fast car. To me the pride comes from building it. From figuring out what would make the car fast.
To me its allot more than bow hunting and I guess a crossbow just looks like there is not much to it. I guess it's pull it out of the box and hope a deer comes by. But then again there are guys that dont even know what a nock is or a serving. But they bow hunt.
There is something about doing this and doing that with your bow then when the moment comes and you draw it back and know that the arrow that is launched by the energy you put into it hits its mark it just has a little of "YOU" in it.
The OP wondered if crossbows becoming more popular would hurt deer genetics. I assume he thinks more bucks will be killed by hunters that otherwise would wait until after the breeding and use a gun.
I have to say, good question. But I dont think that it will hurt genetics one bit.


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

> I have lost respect when I read posts "shot him with my crossbow". Its Just to easy. Does anyone else feel this way? I noticed a lot of posts like this so far.


You're not alone, I don't even bother reading threads involving an able bodied hunter using a crossbow.

Last year the neighbor down the road took a really nice 9 point. We were all congratulating him over coffee until he mentioned he took it with a crossbow, the whole tone changed, you took a buck with a crossbow during bow season, big deal, might as well have hit with your truck on the way to the stand, it just doesn't count.


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## Macatawaduckmaster (May 25, 2009)

I am 27 and have only been deer hunting for 4 years. I was not raised bow hunting or taught how to shoot a bow growing up. I am able to shoot a compound but choose to hunt with a crossbow. 2 years ago I purchased a compound and never really felt comftorable enough to shoot at a deer with it, therefore I hunt with a crossbow. I still find it challenging and enjoyed hunting during the firearm and muzzleloading season last year with it. And have enjoyed hunting during the archery season with it this year. I don't understand why some of you "think" shooting a deer with a crossbow doesn't count.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

To add to the silly argument, why would anyone want to use a compound bow when they can use a recurve?


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

Macatawaduckmaster said:


> I don't understand why some of you "think" shooting a deer with a crossbow doesn't count.


I wouldn't say it doesn't count... But until a person actually hunts and kills or attempts to kill a deer with a weapon that has to be drawn/armed in the presence of game you will not understand where some are coming from... 

I have gone from anti to having mixed feelings on this subject. Seems like everytime the sourness is gone I read or hear something that angers me regarding what people think bowhunting is...


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## rmw (Feb 21, 2006)

petronius said:


> To add to the silly argument, why would anyone want to use a compound bow when they can use a recurve?


A recurve is for a wuss a long bow is what you need, with a sharpend rock on the end of your wooden arrow and if you are really sporting a spear or you could just drop out of a tree and bite the deer on the jugglear 

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## coldskins (Sep 26, 2011)

Whats it going to be in dec?Man i have no respect for those guys who keep shooting deer with there inlines,I have no respect for them and i am tired of reading there post.We should all be using patch and ball flintlocks right?or, How bout gun season? I have no respect for those guys shooting deer with anything other than a 33, or better yet anything other than a pistal.Or shotgun, I have no respect for the guy whos useing a three inch chamber or any thing other than buck shot.I dont think slugs should be allowed. Is it ever going to end? Probably not, lets face it technology has helped all of us advance in one way or another, we used to use true low tech muzzle loaders, but most but not all have gone to the inline.With guns we have better optics for our riffles and larger chambers for our shot guns.We have switched most not all from shot to slugs, does it change the game? Yeah it all does, same with bows back when it started; it was the long bow, then recurve, then compound, now the xbow.Most not all have changed with the times, but from todays compounds to todays xbows I dont feel there is much diffrence between the two, still have limits which are relevent to eachother as to how far you can shoot.Speed, well thogh some xbows are alittle faster, alot shoot about the same speed as the new compounds.Xbows are loud as hell and for this reason i think it limmits, or at least should limmit the range even more then the compound of today. Wich are quieter and thats why i am not changing any time soon, but to sit and bash someone for the leagle use of an xbow is just wrong.They still have to put in just as much work as any other bow hunter, to get close enough to shoot a deer. If he can shoot two big bruzers in one day, he is a hell of a hunter no matter what he used for equipment. I doubt anyone would have bashed him if he shot them during gun season and said he was less of a gun hunter than someone else, just for using store bought ammo, insted of reloading it him self.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

rmw said:


> A recurve is for a wuss a long bow is what you need, with a sharpend rock on the end of your wooden arrow and if you are really sporting a spear or you could just drop out of a tree and bite the deer on the jugglear
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Or an atlatl. Hunting wild pigs with a knife or spear is legal in Hawaii.


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

coldkskin has gone through menopause and no longer has a......wait for it...........period.:evil:

Sorry, couldn't resist.


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## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

Who let this thread get back on topic?


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

Neal said:


> Who let this thread get back on topic?


 :lol:


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

coldskins said:


> whats it going to be in dec man i have no respect for those guys who keep shooting deer with there inlines i have no respect for them and i am tired of reading there post we should all be using patch and ball flintlocks right?or how bout gun season i have no respect for those guys shooting deer with anything other than a 33 or better yet anything other than a pistal or shotgun i have no respect for the guy whos useing a three inch chamber or any thing other than buck shot i dont think slugs should be allowed is it ever going to end probably not lets face it technology has helped all of us advance in one way or another we used to use true low tech muzzle loaders but most but not all have gone to the inline and with guns we have better optics for our riffles and larger chambers for our shot guns and have switched most not all from shot to slugs does it change the game yeah it all does same with bows back when it started it was the long bow then recurve then compound now the xbow most not all have changed with the times but from todays compounds to todays xbows i dont feel there is much diffrence between the two still have limits which are relevent to eachother as to how far you can shoot speed well thogh some xbows are alittle faster alot shoot about the same speed as the new compounds xbows are loud as hell and for this reason i think it limmits or at least should limmit the range even more than the compound of today wich are quieter and thats why i am not changing any time soon but to sit and bash someone for the leagle use of an xbow is just wrong they still have to put in just as much work as any other bow hunter to get close enough to shoot a deer and if he can shoo two big bruzers in one day he is a hell of a hunter no matter what he used for equipment i dobt anyone would have bashed him if he shot htem during gun season and said he was less of a gun hunter than some one else just for using store bought ammo insted of reloading it him self


I agree and you wrote that all in one sentence!


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## Riva (Aug 10, 2006)

Neal said:


> Who let this thread get back on topic?


This should fix it:

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/prod...0&rid=40&mr:trackingCode=A358F07E-305B-E011-B


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

Riva said:


> This should fix it:
> 
> http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/prod...0&rid=40&mr:trackingCode=A358F07E-305B-E011-B


 

ooooo flannel lined too...niiiice


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## coldskins (Sep 26, 2011)

2PawsRiver said:


> coldkskin has gone through menopause and no longer has a......wait for it...........period.:evil:
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist.


........................................................................................That should cover all the ones i have missed, oh yeah and how bout some of these goofy lookin things.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, sorry i cant spell or punctuate, im a red neck, never claimed to be an english professor!:rant:


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## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

sbooy42 said:


> ooooo flannel lined too...niiiice


All kidding aside flannel lined pants are kind of like having Scarlett Johansson in there...It's really nice.


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

Neal said:


> All kidding aside flannel lined pants are kind of like having Scarlett Johansson in there...It's really nice.


I agree.

I love my johansson equipped jeans...


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## mich buckmaster (Nov 20, 2001)

There is NO WAY THAT CROSSBOWS has ANY advantage to hunting with a compound. My dad has been using one for years, and my son used one this year. Are they accurate, YEP, are they noisy, YEP, are they hard to carry in the woods, ABSOLUTELY, you cant put stands in clumped trees because you take the risk of hitting your limbs when shot. You cant hold your crossbow easy while waiting. YOU can have the crossbow, when it comes to that. They dont shoot any farther, and I can do so much more with my compound. 

Now I do like crossbows for youth, older gentleman, or disabled. Or anyone else that wants to use them, but to say they are NOT FAIR, EASY, LIKE A GUN....................BULL!!!!!!


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## det07 (Mar 26, 2006)

mich buckmaster said:


> There is NO WAY THAT CROSSBOWS has ANY advantage to hunting with a compound. My dad has been using one for years, and my son used one this year. Are they accurate, YEP, are they noisy, YEP, are they hard to carry in the woods, ABSOLUTELY, you cant put stands in clumped trees because you take the risk of hitting your limbs when shot. You cant hold your crossbow easy while waiting. YOU can have the crossbow, when it comes to that. They dont shoot any farther, and I can do so much more with my compound.
> 
> Now I do like crossbows for youth, older gentleman, or disabled. Or anyone else that wants to use them, but to say they are NOT FAIR, EASY, LIKE A GUN....................BULL!!!!!!


I have to agree.. I bought an Excalibur Vortex and put all the latest and greatest accessories on it and hunted with it a few times last year. I sold it on ebay before the season even started this year! It just wasn't for me! I upgraded to a z7 extreme and can go places and do things I never could w/ an x-bow.


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

Fred Bear said:


> I just cant figure out why someone would want to use a crossbow if they can use a real bow. This picture you guys paint of crossbow guys waiting on the right shot, waiting for the deer to get close enough etc ect ect is just not happening with the guys I know that ran out and got a crossbow "because now they are legal". These guys are taking shots at deer just like gun hunters. Running shots, head on, 60 yards away ect ect.
> The guys I've heard of that got a crossbow are the same "get your deer" kind of guy. Whatever!! as long as MI has this brown its down mentality you are gunna have the lead slinger and now the bolt slingers. Michigan has no respect for deer and they ALL have a target on them. Now, I think the people on here have allot of respect for the deer and the weapon they choose. But sadly, the people on here make up the minority of hunters.


I have to say that whenever I read a post of yours that bashes other hunters for their harvest decisions, choice of shots or weapon I always kind of wonder, why exactly you chose the screen name that you did?

The Icon that you have adopted as your on-screen persona was kind of the antithesis of everything you seem to be railing against in the above post. Fred was an opportunistic hunter who did not hesitate to shoot the first legal deer that came along (brown it's down), was well known for pushing the ethical envelope regarding the limitations of the equipment that he used (shooting at running game...long distances - I.E "bolt slinger") and did not look down his nose at other hunters based on their choice of weapon, in fact chastising some elitist bow hunters who took on that attitude. Seems kind of funny that you use his name and his picture as your avatar in this forum, yet seemingly reject many of his practices and points of view. Somehow I don't think Fred would be bashing crossbow hunters and viewing them with the disdain that you and others apparently do. 










_"You asked how archers can improve the bowhunting picture. Archers can do that first by remembering that there are people who like to hunt with a gun, just as many of us like to hunt with the bow. Each should have the same respect providing he is as good a sportsman as anyone else. Many archers look down on the gun hunter. That is not the proper attitude. This fellow is enjoying the same sport, only he's doing it with a different weapon of his choice. 

Many people get the sportsmen's fraternity against them by scowling at the business of hunting with a gun, thinking that bowhunting is the only way to hunt. That is wrong. You have to be a good sport. "_ Fred Bear


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## weatherby (Mar 26, 2001)

Now I do like crossbows for youth, older gentleman, or disabled. Or anyone else that wants to use them, but to say they are NOT FAIR, EASY, LIKE A GUN....................BULL!!!!!![/QUOTE]



I agree 100%. The peopple that say that bs are the same people that are afraid others are gonna shoot "their" deer. Wether it is the youth hunt or gun season.


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

Fred Bear said:


> as I left this alone for a few minutes, I got to thinking. I'm the kind of guy that has to have my hands on stuff. I know my bow inside and out. I tune it my self, I reserve my strings, tie my own D loops and make my own arrows. But it goes deeper than that. I study what makes it tick. From the actual bow and arrow down to my form.
> I guess I just cant get the guy who buys a Corvette and thinks he is something because he has a fast car. To me the pride comes from building it. From figuring out what would make the car fast.
> To me its allot more than bow hunting and I guess a crossbow just looks like there is not much to it. I guess it's pull it out of the box and hope a deer comes by. But then again there are guys that dont even know what a nock is or a serving. But they bow hunt.
> There is something about doing this and doing that with your bow then when the moment comes and you draw it back and know that the arrow that is launched by the energy you put into it hits its mark it just has a little of "YOU" in it.
> ...


If you are not practicing as often with a crossbow as with a compound you can expect a very, very poor experience in the woods. You have to know every nuance of what the arrow is going to do. You have to know the shape of the arrow flight just like with a compound. If you are shooting, say, 30 yards, the arrow goes up as it leaves the bow and you could hit an obstruction that is above the sight line. After the first 20 yards, I adjust my shot every 5 yards. Between 20 and 25 yards, I get a 2-3 inch drop. Between 20 and 30 yards, it is about another 4-5 inches, by 40 yards, add another 8-9 inches. For me, that is a half reticle change for every five yards after the 20 yards. It takes a lot of practice and knowledge of distances and judging the shot on in-between yardages. 

I do agree with you that a lot of guys ran out and bought crossbows the first year thinking that they would be able to shoot deer at 40 yards or more. Most of them have been sold on e-bay or are laying in the garage now. If you are not a bow hunter or willing to become one, a crossbow will not be very useful. You have to literally do everything exactly the same as a compound bow in terms of practice, shot selection, shot placement, distances, etc. 



> you draw it back and know that the arrow that is launched by the energy you put into it hits its mark it just has a little of "YOU" in it.


Uhh, I do draw it back, transferring energy from the ATP in my muscles to the limbs and cams of the bow just like you do. It has as much of me in it as when I shoot my compound bow.


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

sbooy42 said:


> I wouldn't say it doesn't count... But until a person actually hunts and kills or attempts to kill a deer with a weapon that has to be drawn/armed in the presence of game you will not understand where some are coming from...
> 
> I have gone from anti to having mixed feelings on this subject. Seems like everytime the sourness is gone I read or hear something that angers me regarding what people think bowhunting is...


I have killed deer both ways. Have you? There is virtually no difference in the difficulty level of killing a deer when a compound bow is used vs. a crossbow. Ohio has many years of records showing no difference in the effectiveness of the crossbow and the compound bow. 

The crossbow has a much bigger, wider profile than the compound bow. Swinging it to get on a deer is a big move.

When I sit in a stand, I spend a lot of time mentally rehearsing how I am going to get in position with that big, bulky weapon depending on where the deer is approaching. It is not easy, and anybody who thinks it is simply doesn't understand the technology. 

I lost a doe two years ago because of a single goldenrod stalk that deflected the crossbow arrow. I lost a trophy buck this year because I shot too far forward and hit the shoulder--did not get penetration. I got caught by the buck I shot the other night swinging the crossbow about 90 degrees from where I expected him to exit the brush. Luckily, he stood still while I "drew" the crossbow up to my shoulder.


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

Macatawaduckmaster said:


> I am 27 and have only been deer hunting for 4 years. I was not raised bow hunting or taught how to shoot a bow growing up. I am able to shoot a compound but choose to hunt with a crossbow. 2 years ago I purchased a compound and never really felt comftorable enough to shoot at a deer with it, therefore I hunt with a crossbow. I still find it challenging and enjoyed hunting during the firearm and muzzleloading season last year with it. And have enjoyed hunting during the archery season with it this year. I don't understand why some of you "think" shooting a deer with a crossbow doesn't count.


 This is because we have tried both. how about you go shoot one with a compound and get back with us. Ive been hunting for lets just say longer than most at my age and when i picked up a crossbow it just wasnt the same


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## anon11252019 (Dec 1, 2005)

Munsterlndr said:


> _"You asked how archers can improve the bowhunting picture. Archers can do that first by remembering that there are people who like to hunt with a gun, just as many of us like to hunt with the bow. Each should have the same respect providing he is as good a sportsman as anyone else. Many archers look down on the gun hunter. That is not the proper attitude. This fellow is enjoying the same sport, only he's doing it with a different weapon of his choice. _
> 
> _Many people get the sportsmen's fraternity against them by scowling at the business of hunting with a gun, thinking that bowhunting is the only way to hunt. That is wrong. You have to be a good sport. "_ Fred Bear


Would have liked to know Fred Bear. He appeared to be quite a sportsman according to what I read about him. His point about those who think that "bowhunting is the only way to hunt" IMO seems to be the modern way of thinking. It happens the other way around, as far as rifle hunters against bow hunters, but not as often. This is why IMO archery has been climbing in popularity. "Popularity" being the key word. I personally hunt with archery and rifle and muzzleloader and enjoy them all.....carry on...


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## Macatawaduckmaster (May 25, 2009)

Jimmy017, I never said they were the same? My main problem is that some people think that a deer killed with a crossbow doesn't count. Would it be more acceptable if I had shoot one with my crossbow during the firearm or muzzleloader season?


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

Macatawaduckmaster said:


> Jimmy017, I never said they were the same? My main problem is that some people think that a deer killed with a crossbow doesn't count. Would it be more acceptable if I had shoot one with my crossbow during the firearm or muzzleloader season?


 IMO yes it would during them seasons using a crossbow would be a real disadvantage. Also i feel gun season is to easy myself but thats a whole different thread. Im sure the deer would agree that me with a gun in my hand just isnt fair for them :evilsmile

Edit: I said they arnt the same to me i wouldnt feel as accomplished shooting a deer (not matter the size) with a crossbow as i would with my compound


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

sbooy42 said:


> I agree.
> 
> I love my johansson equipped jeans...


Does anyone know where I can get the J Lo version?


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## Macatawaduckmaster (May 25, 2009)

Jimmy017- So if I hunt with my crossbow during the firearm season, and someone else shoots a deer with a rifle or shotgun that shouldn't count, right??


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

bioactive said:


> I have killed deer both ways. Have you? There is virtually no difference in the difficulty level of killing a deer when a compound bow is used vs. a crossbow. Ohio has many years of records showing no difference in the effectiveness of the crossbow and the compound bow.
> 
> The crossbow has a much bigger, wider profile than the compound bow. Swinging it to get on a deer is a big move.
> 
> .


No I haven't but it doesn't take a genius to understand the mechanics involved to get on a deer... its the exact same mechanics as killing a deer with a shotgun at 0- 40 yards....

Well I guess we will just disagree that there is a difference of drawing on a deer at 15 yards v.s. flicking the safety off.... 

I also have a hard time hearing prone position and bowhunting together..

A lot of deja vu with all the talk of this big bulky cumbersome weapon... Still makes me wonder, if they are such a pain in the rear whats all the hype about?.. 

If yours is difficult to handle I would recommend the Parker Enforcer my dad is using..I am very impressed very light compact package that my 6 yr old can shoot and inexpensive... And yes I am looking forward to using it this spring for turkey hunting....why? 1 reason less movement involved once the game is in range...and I can ditch the blind

Sorry to get off track... back to the silliness of this thread


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

petronius said:


> Does anyone know where I can get the J Lo version?


 macey's


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

Macatawaduckmaster said:


> Jimmy017- So if I hunt with my crossbow during the firearm season, and someone else shoots a deer with a rifle or shotgun that shouldn't count, right??


 Their deer counts but yours would be more of a challenge no questions asked.


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

jimmyo17 said:


> Their deer counts but yours would be more of a challenge no questions asked.


Wow. Lots of rules. So if its firearm deer season and one hunter shoots a deer at 20 yards with a crossbow and another shoots a deer at 20 yards with a rifle, does the crossbow deer count more or are they equal?

What if the deer was closer for the rifle hunter? Does the crossbow hunters' deer then count more?

What if the rifle hunter was in a treestand and the crossbow hunter is on the ground and the deer is the same distance. Does the deer count more for the crossbow hunter since the rifle hunter is in a treestand or aren't treestands seen as an advantage?


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

Does still hunting with a crossbow or rifle count more or less than bow hunting from a stand?


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

brookie1 said:


> Wow. Lots of rules. So if its firearm deer season and one hunter shoots a deer at 20 yards with a crossbow and another shoots a deer at 20 yards with a rifle, does the crossbow deer count more or are they equal?
> 
> What if the deer was closer for the rifle hunter? Does the crossbow hunters' deer then count more?
> 
> What if the rifle hunter was in a treestand and the crossbow hunter is on the ground and the deer is the same distance. Does the deer count more for the crossbow hunter since the rifle hunter is in a treestand or aren't treestands seen as an advantage?


 So let me get this right your trying to say hunting deer with a rifle is as hard as with a crossbow?
Then you go on to compare hunting from a tree or from the ground and act like its the same?Brookie you might wanna get off the computer and go hunt and learn a little.


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

petronius said:


> Does still hunting with a crossbow or rifle count more or less than bow hunting from a stand?


 im assuming this questions is aimed at me. If it is could you please specify what exactly you are asking


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## BobbyK (Dec 31, 2010)

#1Shot said:


> Question: Now that Crossbows are gaining popularity for the "normal" hunter do you think it will decrease the deer genetics furthere?
> 
> Case in Point: The Post "One day,Two for the wall" was using a crossbow to take down two really nice bucks. Now those deer probably have not even bred a doe yet this year and have been removed from the gene pool.
> 
> ...


I agree with you dude. I mean, I don't think it will bother the genetics or anything like that, but I don't have the respect for those that use a crossbow that have the ability to pull back a compound or a recurve. I'm also not saying that a crossbow is the same as a muzzleloader in terms of distance, but the easiness of just pulling the trigger are the same. :idea:This is my feeling: If you can pull it back (without the issue of hurting yourself) then don't be a sissy by using a crossbow. It's just the way I feel. Crossbows are just to simple/easy for archery season that's why I've never like them. If I ever get hurt to the extent where I can't pull a bow back or get too old, then I'd probably use one but I still don't think I would. Fred Bear used a recurve for how long??:16suspect It's about the challenge and chase this time of the year IMO, and it will not change.


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

jimmyo17 said:


> So let me get this right your trying to say hunting deer with a rifle is as hard as with a crossbow?
> Then you go on to compare hunting from a tree or from the ground and act like its the same?Brookie you might wanna get off the computer and go hunt and learn a little.


I'm not trying to say anything. Those were legitimate questions. I am trying to understand your rules. You say that any deer taken with a compound bow during archery season is an accomplishment while any deer taken with a crossbow during archery season doesn't count. This is what you said. Now you say that a deer taken with a crossbow during firearm season IS an accomplishment. So everything being equal, a deer killed with a crossbow on November 14 doesn't count but a deer killed with a crossbow on November 15 is an accomplishment. I was trying to understand if any other factors were involved in this like treestands and/or distance from the hunter. I just don't want to put in the time and effort to kill a deer only to found out it doesn't even count. You can imagine my concern, me with a used tag, the money and time involved, and then a deer that doesn't count because I was tripped up by a technicality I didn't get clarified. What a waste that would be.


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## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

Have a good weekend everybody, and good luck out there.


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

Neal said:


> Have a good weekend everybody, and good luck out there.


 you too


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

brookie1 said:


> I'm not trying to say anything. Those were legitimate questions. I am trying to understand your rules. You say that any deer taken with a compound bow during archery season is an accomplishment while any deer taken with a crossbow during archery season doesn't count. This is what you said. Now you say that a deer taken with a crossbow during firearm season IS an accomplishment. So everything being equal, a deer killed with a crossbow on November 14 doesn't count but a deer killed with a crossbow on November 15 is an accomplishment. I was trying to understand if any other factors were involved in this like treestands and/or distance from the hunter. I just don't want to put in the time and effort to kill a deer only to found out it doesn't even count. You can imagine my concern, me with a used tag, the money and time involved, and then a deer that doesn't count because I was tripped up by a technicality I didn't get clarified. What a waste that would be.


 :lol::lol::lol:
Come on now ground hunting and hunting from a tree are 2 totally different ball games.Same with gun hunting vs archery hunting.Let me give you an example. If you go out november 15th and kill a 10pt with you bow,then next year you go out november 15th and kill a 10pt with a gun. Which one would you feel more accomplished about?
Also my rules apply to me you go do what you want if its legal. Would i neccessarly agree with what you do? No but that doesnt matter your an individual do what you want


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## Baybum (Jan 9, 2008)

petronius said:


> Does still hunting with a crossbow or rifle count more or less than bow hunting from a stand?


So if im hunting in khakis it counts less than jeans right? But if I get the Johanson or j lo jeans that would count more as I would obviously have to conceal more movement right?

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

jimmyo17 said:


> :lol::lol::lol:
> Come on now ground hunting and hunting from a tree are 2 totally different ball games.Same with gun hunting vs archery hunting.Let me give you an example. If you go out november 15th and kill a 10pt with you bow,then next year you go out november 15th and kill a 10pt with a gun. Which one would you feel more accomplished about?


 
I was trying to use sarcasm to make you see how irrational your thought process is, but you clearly missed it.


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

brookie1 said:


> I was trying to use sarcasm to make you see how irrational your thought process is, but you clearly missed it.


 No i didnt miss it i just ignored it because i think you though process is irrational imagine that! I was trying to be nice but whatever im done discussing this with you. Later brookie have fun with your crossgun


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

Clearly I overestimated you. Sorry.


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

brookie if you think i didnt catch the part were you said you want to make sure it counts before you shoot it. You are as dumb as i thought you were


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

I still think I overestimated you.


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

haha thats cool


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## Riva (Aug 10, 2006)

Neal said:


> Have a good weekend everybody, and good luck out there.


What's wrong with this picture....Some of you people are still arguing about crossbows, some wonder if felt-lined khakis are over the top and here I am in Canada for a wedding of a 2nd cousin's kid that I met 15 years ago! Not only that...it's the peak of the rut,and everybody is hunting my property EXCEPT ME!


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

Fred Bear said:


> I guess I just cant get the guy who buys a Corvette and thinks he is something because he has a fast car.


Most race drivers couldn't design or build a car if their life depended on it... and most car designers would get killed on a race track.


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## bucks-n-trout (Nov 24, 2004)

Been hunting for 40 yrs now. Started with a recurve. I remember when compounds were going to kill the sport, too easy. Then in-line MZ's taking the place of trad blk pwdr were gonna kill the sport, too easy. Next high velocity sabots were gonna kill the sport, too easy. Have used all these weapons and enjoy them all. Use a x-bow now because it is easyer on my shoulder. Few advantages over a verticle bow, some disadvantages. If it makes you feel superior to use a different weapon than me, fine use it. Hunt with a rock or a spear if you enjoy it. Point being , just go hunting and quit worrying so much. Treasure the experience and thank God that we have the freedoms we do to hunt , fish, shoot ect. Good luck hunting this year and I hope you kill a big one, regardless of what weapon you are using. If you get one with a rock, I will really be impressed. Post pictures


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

BobbyK said:


> Fred Bear used a recurve for how long??:16suspect It's about the challenge and chase this time of the year IMO, and it will not change.


If I'm not mistaken,, Fred used a recurve up to the time he built a compound, then started using that... I'll let you venture a guess as to "why" he started using a compound... :lol:


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

William H Bonney said:


> If I'm not mistaken,, Fred used a recurve up to the time he built a compound, then started using that... I'll let you venture a guess as to "why" he started using a compound... :lol:


Nope, Fred was not adverse to cashing in on the compound craze and was happy to sell them but he hated shooting them and was a lousy shot with a compound. He said that they interfered with his natural draw and release motion and that he could never get the hang of shooting a compound. The pictures of him carrying one were purely publicity shots for Bear marketing purposes. It had nothing to do with being "traditional" or being opposed to technology, he simply was not good at shooting a compound and didn't want to have to relearn how to shoot a bow. If you think it had anything to do with technology, I'd suggest you read about Fred and the pod.


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## TheCrawdad (May 9, 2009)

Munster, you're becoming quite the killjoy. Quit messing up all this stupidity with reality, facts and common sense. It's ruining all the fun.


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## LoBrass (Oct 16, 2007)

WOW!! What a thread!

The _real _challenge is getting that mature animal to spend significant time on your hunting property. I spend so much time on this part of the hunt I eagerly seek ways to reduce the practice time necessary to consistently put a kill shot on an animal. X-guns are easier-Yep!! I totally think so and am *ELATED* that my practice time was massively reduced. 

What a great state we live in where we are *FREE* to choose what ever weapon we care to handle in the field. God Bless America and ALL the freedoms she represents!!

Trust me, you can still choke with an x-gun, crossgun, crossbow!!

To each his/her own when it comes to *legal* weapons. That is the American way.

I just don't like hearing about guys hunting in "street shoes"!!:yikes: (Riva)


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

BobbyK said:


> Fred Bear used a recurve for how long??:16suspect It's about the challenge and chase this time of the year IMO, and it will not change.


He also hunted with a rifle.......And he didnt pass on yearlings either.



William H Bonney said:


> If I'm not mistaken,, Fred used a recurve up to the time he built a compound, then started using that... I'll let you venture a guess as to "why" he started using a compound... :lol:


 Munster is correct, He considered them inaccurate. Watch a video of him shooting some time, pretty amazing.


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

TheCrawdad said:


> Munster, you're becoming quite the killjoy. Quit messing up all this stupidity with reality, facts and common sense. It's ruining all the fun.


Yeah,,, especially at my expense... ........ :lol:


Seriously though,, I just figured since he made a bunch of money off of 'em, that he shot 'em as well...


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

brookie1 said:


> I'm not trying to say anything. Those were legitimate questions. I am trying to understand your rules. You say that any deer taken with a compound bow during archery season is an accomplishment while any deer taken with a crossbow during archery season doesn't count. This is what you said. Now you say that a deer taken with a crossbow during firearm season IS an accomplishment.* So everything being equal, a deer killed with a crossbow on November 14 doesn't count but a deer killed with a crossbow on November 15 is an accomplishment.* I was trying to understand if any other factors were involved in this like treestands and/or distance from the hunter. I just don't want to put in the time and effort to kill a deer only to found out it doesn't even count. You can imagine my concern, me with a used tag, the money and time involved, and then a deer that doesn't count because I was tripped up by a technicality I didn't get clarified. What a waste that would be.


Hey, you forget about taste. Does a deer killed that doesn't count have more of a gamey taste? I'd bet they both would taste about the same, unless you let hang in 50 degree weather for 5 days. I get a sense of accomplishment when I get a deer, period. It doesn't matter to me which weapon is used, it depends on the circumstances. I use a ground blind or still hunt, tree stands are too easy.


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## Fred Bear (Jan 20, 2000)

pescadero said:


> Most race drivers couldn't design or build a car if their life depended on it... and most car designers would get killed on a race track.


and they dont impress me either. Some people just dont "get it!" I just got done sharpening some broad heads and tuning my bow a little more. I'm going to hunt deer.


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## Fred Bear (Jan 20, 2000)

Munsterlndr said:


> I have to say that whenever I read a post of yours that bashes other hunters for their harvest decisions, choice of shots or weapon I always kind of wonder, why exactly you chose the screen name that you did?
> 
> The Icon that you have adopted as your on-screen persona was kind of the antithesis of everything you seem to be railing against in the above post. Fred was an opportunistic hunter who did not hesitate to shoot the first legal deer that came along (brown it's down), was well known for pushing the ethical envelope regarding the limitations of the equipment that he used (shooting at running game...long distances - I.E "bolt slinger") and did not look down his nose at other hunters based on their choice of weapon, in fact chastising some elitist bow hunters who took on that attitude. Seems kind of funny that you use his name and his picture as your avatar in this forum, yet seemingly reject many of his practices and points of view. Somehow I don't think Fred would be bashing crossbow hunters and viewing them with the disdain that you and others apparently do.
> 
> ...


 To answer your question, Fred Bear was the first bow that I ever shot. A bear bow. The god father of modern archery and from Michigan. To be honest my first 3 bows were Bear archery. Just because I "like" him, I dont have to be "like" him. Deer hunting is much, much different than when he hunted. I have hunted deer when in MI if you saw a buck like the one that you posted was a big deal. FB was a business man that liked to hunt. I'm just a guy that likes to chase whitetails. I think that its easy to kill a buck. Not just any buck. I've matured as a hunter. Heck, I passed a 8 point tonight that most would have crapped them selves over. I'm getting better. My hunting is getting better and that is what I am all about. Do you have a better screen name for me?


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## Alan454 (Sep 20, 2010)

It seems you guys have missed a very important detail in this discussion. Whether you are hunting with a compound bow, re curve, longbow or a crossbow you still have to get that animal withing 30 or so yards of your hunting location to make an ethical shot. I have hunted with both a compound bow and currently a crossbow. My opportunities remain the same. You still have to scout, find a good location, hang the stand in the right place. You still have to play the wind, keep your scent to a minimum and stay motionless for hours on end and hope you get a chance at a deer. The areas I hunt might yield one, I will repeat one opportunity a year at a nice mature buck. Let me repeat that one more time. MIGHT! The skill in my opinion in taking a deer during archery season is not the actually shot, far from it in fact. I know several guys that can out shoot me with there compound bows, do they have more deer than me? Nope. Its because they don't put the time in on stand like me, and don't watch the wind and keep scent down and do all the things that will give you the opportunity to kill a quality animal. Do I feel a crossbow is easier to pick up and fairly quickly shoot accurately? Yes. However I do not feel a crossbow makes anything thing easier on stand. The one thing it does do, its makes me more confident that when that one opportunity presents it's self I will be able to make a good, quick, ethical kill on a beautiful animal. So if that makes me less of a hunter, then so be it. I won't lose any sleep over it. Now to the guys that picked up a crossbow and think it is a gun, please sell it and wait till the orange army enters the woods on the 15th. I had a buddy buy one last year and after realizing it still requires work and skill to hunt with he lost interest and sold it. To those guys, wake up, sell it and move on. It is not as easy as a gun. Not even close.
Good luck to everyone for the remainder of the season, regardless of the LEGAL weapon you choose to use.


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

sbooy42 said:


> No I haven't but it doesn't take a genius to understand the mechanics involved to get on a deer... its the exact same mechanics as killing a deer with a shotgun at 0- 40 yards....
> 
> Well I guess we will just disagree that there is a difference of drawing on a deer at 15 yards v.s. flicking the safety off....
> 
> ...


There are positives and negatives that I am well aware of. The positives outweigh the negatives for me so I usually hunt with my crossbow. But one of the positives from a treestand is not reduced movement to shoot the deer.

I do agree with you that shooting from the prone position is possible with the x-bow and not the compound. Plus it is easier to shoot from a pop-up. But in my view, having dealt with both, it is not in any way easier to raise a crossbow up and get it on a deer than it is to draw a compound. The biggest problem is the use of a hanger. The bow in either case is vertical on the hanger. One remains vertical, the other has to be turned to the horizontal position. Big move, very difficult to achieve if the deer is very close.


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## Terry Williams (Dec 20, 2000)

When did crossbows become legal?


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## Big 10 (Nov 2, 2005)

Alan454 said:


> It seems you guys have missed a very important detail in this discussion. Whether you are hunting with a compound bow, re curve, longbow or a crossbow you still have to get that animal withing 30 or so yards of your hunting location to make an ethical shot. I have hunted with both a compound bow and currently a crossbow. My opportunities remain the same. You still have to scout, find a good location, hang the stand in the right place. You still have to play the wind, keep your scent to a minimum and stay motionless for hours on end and hope you get a chance at a deer. The areas I hunt might yield one, I will repeat one opportunity a year at a nice mature buck. Let me repeat that one more time. MIGHT! The skill in my opinion in taking a deer during archery season is not the actually shot, far from it in fact. I know several guys that can out shoot me with there compound bows, do they have more deer than me? Nope. Its because they don't put the time in on stand like me, and don't watch the wind and keep scent down and do all the things that will give you the opportunity to kill a quality animal. Do I feel a crossbow is easier to pick up and fairly quickly shoot accurately? Yes. However I do not feel a crossbow makes anything thing easier on stand. The one thing it does do, its makes me more confident that when that one opportunity presents it's self I will be able to make a good, quick, ethical kill on a beautiful animal. So if that makes me less of a hunter, then so be it. I won't lose any sleep over it. Now to the guys that picked up a crossbow and think it is a gun, please sell it and wait till the orange army enters the woods on the 15th. I had a buddy buy one last year and after realizing it still requires work and skill to hunt with he lost interest and sold it. To those guys, wake up, sell it and move on. It is not as easy as a gun. Not even close.
> Good luck to everyone for the remainder of the season, regardless of the LEGAL weapon you choose to use.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Terry Williams said:


> When did crossbows become legal?


Its the Mich. Bow Hunters Assoc. Governor from Ohio or was that Indiana. I think you would know that answer very well.:lol:


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## Terry Williams (Dec 20, 2000)

Darn nobody told us yet. That's Ohio thanks for asking

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## baydog2 (Jun 14, 2003)

jimmyo17 said:


> Did your compound have a trigger,safety, and a scope :lol:


Lets see a release has a trigger, safety is till you pull string back. Ever heard of the scopes they put on compounds, they sell them everyday.
Bet you shoot a stick bow only too. NOT I shoot them all because I can and its legal. Guys that shoot deer with compounds could get the same gruff from a stick shooter. Guys that shoot deer with stick bow and mfg broadheads could get the same gruff from a guy who makes his own heads and so on. Boy we would have a better world if it was not somebody whining :gaga: about somebody else that is doing something not illegal. You guys should save all this energy for the antihunters and treehuggers before all you are shooting is cameras at the game.


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## StumpJumper (Nov 13, 2001)

Whether you are for or against crossbows, anyone who claims there is no advantage of a xbow over a traditional bow is just fooling themselves.


I've had to let quite a few nice bucks walk over the years that had I had a xbow would've been a super easy shot. Just two nights ago a nice 6 point was 10 yards from me on my right side that would've been dead if I could just shoulder the stock, aim and shoot.

I'm actually thinking about getting one just to have that advantage, since everyone else seems to be hitting the woods with them. Why have the disadvantage of a traditional style (I use traditional loosely) bow.

Would I be as proud of a deer shot with one over my switchback, nope.


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## musicman34 (Oct 7, 2011)

#1Shot said:


> Question: Now that Crossbows are gaining popularity for the "normal" hunter do you think it will decrease the deer genetics furthere?
> 
> Case in Point: The Post "One day,Two for the wall" was using a crossbow to take down two really nice bucks. Now those deer probably have not even bred a doe yet this year and have been removed from the gene pool.
> 
> ...


After reading this post over and over, I have come to the conclusion that this is truly a rediculous post!


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## bounty hunter (Aug 7, 2002)

This is unreal..If you want to shoot one fine ..if not fine..but all these lost deer with your 1,200.00 compound bow posts are getting sick:rant:


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## DabblerDuck (Oct 28, 2009)

I am a traditional guy and initially didn't care for the idea of crossbows either. This summer both of my children and my wife took hunters safety and we are now spending time hunting together. Without the crossbow, this wouldn't have happened. I have also learned through using it myself that it is not what I thought it was. It has limited effective range. It is heavy. It is cumbersome. It is noisy. The scope does not work well in low light conditions and is really not necessary considering the close range. Hunting is still not easy. But, it has made a difference in my family. My kids are learning valuable hunting lessons. My wife is spending some peaceful time in the out of doors.


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## boomer_x7 (Dec 19, 2008)

bioactive said:


> But one of the positives from a treestand is not reduced movement to shoot the deer.
> 
> But in my view, having dealt with both, it is not in any way easier to raise a crossbow up and get it on a deer than it is to draw a compound. The biggest problem is the use of a hanger. The bow in either case is vertical on the hanger. One remains vertical, the other has to be turned to the horizontal position. Big move, very difficult to achieve if the deer is very close.


 
:lol: are you kidding??? 

Ok so grabbing a crossbow and being ready to shoot is not easier than grabbing a vert. bow and THEN having to draw??? I understand that a vert bow is in shooting position when hanging. BUT 1. i know if a deer is coming i already have the bow in my hand. 2. if you are spotted when you grabbed your bow= crossbow: aim and pull trigger, vert bowh yeah, still have to draw.....

Also why even hang a crossbow. just lay the thing across yer lap and allyou have to do is rase it. Hell you dont even have to stand up and you can shoot over 180 degrees. I would like to see you try to shoot a vert bow to your strong side, from a treestand, sitting down. Oh is that tree behind you hindering your elbow from going back.... cant quite get yer anchor point???? i guess once again you would have move/adjust. 

The only person you are fooling by making statments that a crossbow is juat as hard to "draw" as a vert bow is...you


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## laterilus (Mar 18, 2006)

boomer_x7 said:


> :lol: are you kidding???
> 
> Ok so grabbing a crossbow and being ready to shoot is not easier than grabbing a vert. bow and THEN having to draw??? I understand that a vert bow is in shooting position when hanging. BUT 1. i know if a deer is coming i already have the bow in my hand. 2. if you are spotted when you grabbed your bow= crossbow: aim and pull trigger, vert bowh yeah, still have to draw.....
> 
> ...


 This whole post........:lol:


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## Fishous (Aug 24, 2005)

All you have to do is have them shoot it once, with the safety ON. If they're anything like some of the people I know, you'll see them jerk the trigger. Saw my dad do that once, I said, well, there's your problem. :lol:


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

#1shot

You may be on to something. Maybe it's about time to not allow any bucks to be harvested until after the peak of the rut or November 15th. Those darn horizontal and vertical arrow flingers are ruining the genetic make up of Michigan's deer herd. :lol: A rule like that would also make all the anti youth hunters happy too.


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## scottywolverine (Nov 12, 2008)

Here is my 2 cents on the subject. My guess is that the majority of crossbow owners went out and got one because they presumed that they would be easier to use. The fact is that they ARE easier to SHOOT. A person can learn to shoot one accurately in the fraction of the time of a traditional or compound bow. That is why more people of all shapes and sizes are able to use them. There are fewer variables involved. Period. 
That however, does not make it easier to hunt or kill a deer with. Some people that get crossbows, take them home sight them in, much like sighting in a rifle, then they are ready to go hunting thinking they can hit a bulls eye at 40+ yards so they should be able to get a deer at that distance. There are those that take the time to actually learn their weapon and realize the effective range of the crossbow. I would think that those are the same guys that take hunting a little more serious then the majority. They understand hunting, they understand bow hunting and they understand what it takes to harvest a mature deer. Some of the same individuals that spend there time on hunting forums to make themselves better hunters, but are forced to defend THEIR CHOICE to use a crossbow. Those few sadly are in the minority of the hunters in this state. 
However the others that have simply sighted in their crossbows will find out quite quickly that hunting with one is not as easy as it sounds and is not as easy as hitting a bulls eye. As has been mentioned above they ARE heavier, they ARE bulkier, and they ARE louder. All of these factors I believe, will lead to a few more wounded deer the first couple of years, however I also believe that a majority of those same people will realize that it takes hard work and patience to kill a deer and become discouraged within a couple of years. Some will choose to become better hunters and learn the effective range of their weapon of choice. The majority will probably just hang the bow up or sell it. 
In the long run I believe that it will have no major effect on the amount of deer harvested or wounded during archery season, as has been proven in states that have allowed crossbow use for years. It WILL however allow people that wouldnt otherwise be able to hunt effectively this time of year the opportunity to harvest the deer of their choice. 
To the OPs question there will be absolutely no effect on the genetics of the deer heard by allowing crossbow use. Or the use of any other weapon for that matter. It is impossible to alter the genes of the free ranging whitetail herd. A deer will have the same genetic make up as a BB as he will when he is a mature 4 1/2yo. 
To all; be safe, good luck and shoot straight, with the weapon of YOUR choice.


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## Alan454 (Sep 20, 2010)

scottywolverine said:


> Here is my 2 cents on the subject. My guess is that the majority of crossbow owners went out and got one because they presumed that they would be easier to use. The fact is that they ARE easier to SHOOT. A person can learn to shoot one accurately in the fraction of the time of a traditional or compound bow. That is why more people of all shapes and sizes are able to use them. There are fewer variables involved. Period.
> That however, does not make it easier to hunt or kill a deer with. Some people that get crossbows, take them home sight them in, much like sighting in a rifle, then they are ready to go hunting thinking they can hit a bulls eye at 40+ yards so they should be able to get a deer at that distance. There are those that take the time to actually learn their weapon and realize the effective range of the crossbow. I would think that those are the same guys that take hunting a little more serious then the majority. They understand hunting, they understand bow hunting and they understand what it takes to harvest a mature deer. Some of the same individuals that spend there time on hunting forums to make themselves better hunters, but are forced to defend THEIR CHOICE to use a crossbow. Those few sadly are in the minority of the hunters in this state.
> However the others that have simply sighted in their crossbows will find out quite quickly that hunting with one is not as easy as it sounds and is not as easy as hitting a bulls eye. As has been mentioned above they ARE heavier, they ARE bulkier, and they ARE louder. All of these factors I believe, will lead to a few more wounded deer the first couple of years, however I also believe that a majority of those same people will realize that it takes hard work and patience to kill a deer and become discouraged within a couple of years. Some will choose to become better hunters and learn the effective range of their weapon of choice. The majority will probably just hang the bow up or sell it.
> In the long run I believe that it will have no major effect on the amount of deer harvested or wounded during archery season, as has been proven in states that have allowed crossbow use for years. It WILL however allow people that wouldnt otherwise be able to hunt effectively this time of year the opportunity to harvest the deer of their choice.
> ...


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## bounty hunter (Aug 7, 2002)

Use what you desire,there both legal and no one has the right to dictate there b.s. on how you choose to enjoy your sport..Dont like crossbows? to bad call Lansing. Don't like the youth hunt ? do the same..


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## Riva (Aug 10, 2006)

bounty hunter said:


> Use what you desire,there both legal and no one has the right to dictate there b.s. on how you choose to enjoy your sport..Dont like crossbows? *Too bad, call Lansing.* Don't like the youth hunt? Do the same..


Good advice. However; somebody already called Lansing on the crossbow situation.


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

boomer_x7 said:


> :lol: are you kidding???
> 
> Ok so grabbing a crossbow and being ready to shoot is not easier than grabbing a vert. bow and THEN having to draw??? I understand that a vert bow is in shooting position when hanging. BUT 1. i know if a deer is coming i already have the bow in my hand. 2. if you are spotted when you grabbed your bow= crossbow: aim and pull trigger, vert bowh yeah, still have to draw.....
> 
> ...


It is painfully obvious you have never tried hunting with a crossbow.

The differences in motion required to get the shot are all in your mind. Ohio has had crossbows legalized for many years. There is no significant difference in harvest rates between crossbows and compound bows.

You want to feel superior while using a weapon that is statistically equal to a crossbow in harvest capability...so go ahead...feel superior. 

Don't let the facts get between you and your need to feel you are making it tough on yourself, while probably using a trigger release, stabilizer, 80% let-off, silencers, peep sight, range finder, and all the other stuff a compound bow hunter uses to make things easier. 

I can draw my compound bow very fluidly and with much less motion than with the crossbow. The advantage has nothing to do with drawing vs. lifting and pointing. It has to do with the fact that, at my age, I can hit the target better with a piece of equipment that is rigidly held against my body than one that is held quivering at the end of my shaking arthritic arm:lol:. That is the main advantage. I can shoot 30-35 yards with the crossbow, vs. only 25 with the compound. This is very similar to the situation that a pro golfer faces as he gets into his 50s. He can still hit the green in regulation, but it is the putting that goes to hell. You simply do not have the nerves of a young man, and virtually no golfer in his 50s can keep up with the young guys. 

One of the disadvantages is that the movement required to get the thing up and on target is greater than the movement required with the compound bow. Much greater--I sit in the tree and agonize about what position to hold it in based on where the activity is, and the huge profile shift required to swing it rather than just pivoting on line with a compound bow held close to my body, and then an in-line drawback that creates very little profile distortion. All a crossbow does is give me the accuracy that a strong 20-30 something has with a compound bow. The advantages outweigh the disadvantages for me. But drawing the vertical bow is much less of a movement than swinging the crossbow. 

Unless you are a long-bow shooter, you are in a glass house when you stand there with your bow all rigged up with pulleys and levers and triggers, etc. and point fingers at others. Four fingers are pointing back at you. 

You have no idea what you are talking about, because you have never used both pieces of equipment, as I have, so any differences are just in your imagination.


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## waterwolfhunter (Jun 26, 2011)

StumpJumper said:


> Whether you are for or against crossbows, anyone who claims there is no advantage of a xbow over a traditional bow is just fooling themselves.
> 
> 
> I've had to let quite a few nice bucks walk over the years that had I had a xbow would've been a super easy shot. Just two nights ago a nice 6 point was 10 yards from me on my right side that would've been dead if I could just shoulder the stock, aim and shoot.
> ...


Just wondering why you think a crossbow is such and advantage? What difference was there in the bucks you passed with a compound that would have enabled you to hit them with a crossbow? Where does this thought process come from? My personal opinion as that of others if you want to use one fine.. If not that's cool too.. But to say a crossbow is some huge advantage over a compound is ridiculous.. Have you seen the size of some of these things? Not to mention the weight? Lets not forget the fact that Weight+Speed= Energy.. Which most people do not realize just how much kinetic energy there giving up when they pick up that crossbow. Sure 320,340,360fps might seem cool but the bottom line is a crossbow bolt lose's quite a bit of kinetic energy down range...


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## bounty hunter (Aug 7, 2002)

Riva said:


> Good advice. However; somebody already called Lansing on the crossbow situation.


meaning you?


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

waterwolfhunter said:


> Just wondering why you think a crossbow is such and advantage? What difference was there in the bucks you passed with a compound that would have enabled you to hit them with a crossbow? Where does this thought process come from? My personal opinion as that of others if you want to use one fine.. If not that's cool too.. But to say a crossbow is some huge advantage over a compound is ridiculous.. Have you seen the size of some of these things? Not to mention the weight? Lets not forget the fact that Weight+Speed= Energy.. Which most people do not realize just how much kinetic energy there giving up when they pick up that crossbow. Sure 320,340,360fps might seem cool but the bottom line is a crossbow bolt lose's quite a bit of kinetic energy down range...


For some reason, with all evidence to the contrary, anti-crossbow enthusiasts have fallen back to the position that because you don't draw a crossbow back, it is "easier" and therefore feel superior to the crossbow user because one thing is perceived to be easier, while ignoring the fact that all the contrivances of the compound bow such as let-off and peep sights and the rest make it "easier."

For those who missed it, take a look at this video...





and this video...
http://www.tenpointcrossbows.com/video_trajectory.asp

There are trade-offs in the use of a crossbow. For some, it will be worth it, for others it won't. But they are roughly equivalent in terms of harvest effectiveness overall.


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## bounty hunter (Aug 7, 2002)

Im buying a x bow this weekend..Im sold:evil:


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## Riva (Aug 10, 2006)

bounty hunter said:


> meaning you?


No. Meaning "us".


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## Paul Thompson (Jul 16, 2007)

#1Shot said:


> Question:
> Case in Point: The Post "One day,Two for the wall" was using a crossbow to take down two really nice bucks. Now those deer probably have not even bred a doe yet this year and have been removed from the gene pool.


Now how do you know if these two bucks have not bread yet? You don't. You are fabricating excuses. You can shoot every antlered buck off the face of Michigan, and the mature button bucks can breed and pass on the same geans his 14 point daddy gave him. There will always be bucks for next year.

You just hate crossbows. The compound bow can shoot farther than a crossbow, the compound is easy to carry through the woods, a crossbow isn't, a compound can reload a second arrow in a matter of seconds in a tree, not so with a crossbow, try cocking one in a tree stand. So what are you so afraid of really?


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## boomer_x7 (Dec 19, 2008)

bioactive said:


> It is painfully obvious you have never tried hunting with a crossbow.
> 
> The differences in motion required to get the shot are all in your mind. Ohio has had crossbows legalized for many years. There is no significant difference in harvest rates between crossbows and compound bows.
> 
> ...


 
So how is the movement of a crossbow so much greater?? you act as if a vert bow auto points its self at the deer. You still have raise a vert bow no matter what! In fact if you lay a crossbow across you all you have to do is raize it. If you hang a crossbow, reach to grab it and bring it down to shoulder ready to shoot. If you hang a vert bow, you have to reach up, grap it, bring it in front of you . If you lay a vert bow across you lap you still have to turn and raise it. The diff is you still have to draw a vert bow back. A crossbow you do not. You imagination simply is createing what there is not to make you feel better and justify you using a crossbow. Eventually even you will start to believe your claims.

As far as my "just as a crossbow" vert. bow: yes i use a trigger release: My trigger isnt fixed, i have to hold it in place when i sqeeze it or my arrow doesnt fly where its sapose to. when was the last time you had to aline you trigger on your crossbow and hold it there through the shot??? Stabilizer: didnt know adding weight to balance a bow was space age science... Let-off. shure there let off, right after i have to draw right before the shot and still have to hold back untill the shot, not at my truck in the parking lot and have 100% let-off. silencers: again not realy anything turn of the century. silencers have been added to bows since the beginning of them. peep sight- my peep doesnt magnify my target or take battieries. Range finder: didnt know my capabilty to judge distance had anything to do with my bow.


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

boomer_x7 said:


> So how is the movement of a crossbow so much greater?? you act as if a vert bow auto points its self at the deer. You still have raise a vert bow no matter what! In fact if you lay a crossbow across you all you have to do is raize it. If you hang a crossbow, reach to grab it and bring it down to shoulder ready to shoot. If you hang a vert bow, you have to reach up, grap it, bring it in front of you . If you lay a vert bow across you lap you still have to turn and raise it. The diff is you still have to draw a vert bow back. A crossbow you do not. You imagination simply is createing what there is not to make you feel better and justify you using a crossbow. Eventually even you will start to believe your claims.
> 
> As far as my "just as a crossbow" vert. bow: yes i use a trigger release: My trigger isnt fixed, i have to hold it in place when i sqeeze it or my arrow doesnt fly where its sapose to. when was the last time you had to aline you trigger on your crossbow and hold it there through the shot??? Stabilizer: didnt know adding weight to balance a bow was space age science... Let-off. shure there let off, right after i have to draw right before the shot and still have to hold back untill the shot, not at my truck in the parking lot and have 100% let-off. silencers: again not realy anything turn of the century. silencers have been added to bows since the beginning of them. peep sight- my peep doesnt magnify my target or take battieries. Range finder: didnt know my capabilty to judge distance had anything to do with my bow.


LOL. There is little in life that is more entertaining than the compound hunter who lives under the delusion that it's a big accomplishment to draw and shoot his bow accurately. Right up there with knowing how to floss, brush, and rinse in terms of complexity. 

Face it, you're completely sold out to ease by your decision to use a compound rather than a longbow. Just because you've taken the lazy man's way out you shouldn't feel guilty though. No need to continue overcompensating for your insecurities by attempting to paint hunting with a compound bow as any type of challenge worth mentioning. No thinking person is going to fall for it anyway.


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## Headacres (Dec 30, 2010)

boomer_x7 said:


> So how is the movement of a crossbow so much greater?? you act as if a vert bow auto points its self at the deer. You still have raise a vert bow no matter what! In fact if you lay a crossbow across you all you have to do is raize it. If you hang a crossbow, reach to grab it and bring it down to shoulder ready to shoot. If you hang a vert bow, you have to reach up, grap it, bring it in front of you . If you lay a vert bow across you lap you still have to turn and raise it. The diff is you still have to draw a vert bow back. A crossbow you do not. You imagination simply is createing what there is not to make you feel better and justify you using a crossbow. Eventually even you will start to believe your claims.
> 
> As far as my "just as a crossbow" vert. bow: yes i use a trigger release: My trigger isnt fixed, i have to hold it in place when i sqeeze it or my arrow doesnt fly where its sapose to. when was the last time you had to aline you trigger on your crossbow and hold it there through the shot??? Stabilizer: didnt know adding weight to balance a bow was space age science... Let-off. shure there let off, right after i have to draw right before the shot and still have to hold back untill the shot, not at my truck in the parking lot and have 100% let-off. silencers: again not realy anything turn of the century. silencers have been added to bows since the beginning of them. peep sight- my peep doesnt magnify my target or take battieries. Range finder: didnt know my capabilty to judge distance had anything to do with my bow.


I'm on bio's side. Used my father's crossbow once and found many more advantage's with my compound to not want to try it again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## boomer_x7 (Dec 19, 2008)

November Sunrise said:


> LOL. There is little in life that is more entertaining than the compound hunter who lives under the delusion that it's a big accomplishment to draw and shoot his bow accurately. Right up there with knowing how to floss, brush, and rinse in terms of complexity.
> 
> Face it, you're completely sold out to ease by your decision to use a compound rather than a longbow. Just because you've taken the lazy man's way out you shouldn't feel guilty though. No need to continue overcompensating for your insecurities by attempting to paint hunting with a compound bow as any type of challenge worth mentioning. No thinking person is going to fall for it anyway.


1. i never said using a compound was as hard or challenging as using trad. equipment. Nore did i ever say it was a big accomplishment. Yet from media down to even these forums a bow kill is often rendered more challenging that using a gun. (witch is how a crossbow shoots)

2. the entire point of my posts were to show my opinion that "drawing" a crossbow to target is NOT harder than a vert. bow.

3. If i have taken the "lazy" way by using a compound then all the crossbow users must be pathetic... If using a compound is "brushing your teeth" then usuing a crossbow must .... breathing


4. so i guess one of those little thing in life that ARE more entertaining than a compound user living under a big illusion, is a forum junky that cant efficiently read a post/posts and see the point a guy is trying to make.


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## boomer_x7 (Dec 19, 2008)

Headacres said:


> I'm on bio's side. Used my father's crossbow once and found many more advantage's with my compound to not want to try it again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So if a compound is such an advantage then why are people (not older or diss-ables) dropping compounds for bowguns left and right. Also new hunters that would never had considered bow hunting are now using a crossbow.


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## jsmith2232 (Jan 4, 2006)

From my experience, I currently own both a bowtech captain and barnett quad 400, and can honestly say that I can hold the same size groups at 60yd with both bows, the nice part of the xbow is the ease of tuning. We are a family of hunters regardless of the weapon we choose. I was dead set against using an xbow until my boss asked me if I would use a rifle instead of a shot gun (im in shot gun zone) if it was legalized. Obviously I would for many reasons, so why not use the same principal for bow season. If some one wants to use a long bow, revolver, flint lock etc during their respective seasons then that is the individuals preference, be thankful the govt isn't telling us what kind of broad head is manditory.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

boomer_x7 said:


> 1. i never said using a compound was as hard or challenging as using trad. equipment. Nore did i ever say it was a big accomplishment. Yet from media down to even these forums a bow kill is often rendered more challenging that using a gun. (witch is how a crossbow shoots)
> 
> 2. the entire point of my posts were to show my opinion that "drawing" a crossbow to target is NOT harder than a vert. bow.
> 
> ...


Your opinions regarding "difficulty" have already been thoroughly refuted by Bio - he's taken you to school on that point but your too oblivious to notice. 

On the bright side, I do appreciate the entertainment value that guys like you provide. Makes me long for the good old days before crossbow inclusion took place when there were regular opportunities to expose the ignorance of anti-crossbow arguments. The compound hunter who rails against crossbow hunters is the epitome of hypocrisy.


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

I sold my compound bow a couple weeks back. I'm buying a crossbow, it's SO MUCH easier,,, I don't care what anyone says... :lol:


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## gillcommander (Oct 19, 2011)

I love my crossbow...its perfect for my shoulder and back problems!!! I do miss my Mathews but love the fact my 19 year old son has a well maintained effective bow to hunt with! Now...I am more upset about passing small buck after small buck waiting for a good one and hoping the neighbors don't snipe one of the poor sparkies next week...oooooooopppppppps that's a different stupid argument....my bad!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Headacres (Dec 30, 2010)

boomer_x7 said:


> So if a compound is such an advantage then why are people (not older or diss-ables) dropping compounds for bowguns left and right. Also new hunters that would never had considered bow hunting are now using a crossbow.


How do you know they are dropping the compounds completely? Maybe they are adding a xbow to their collection of weapons to choose from. I got a xbow stamp this year, never plan on using it, but got it more so to show support for the xbow hunter's. How many other's might be doing the same?

Adding new hunter's is a good thing and xbows are easier to adapt to. If they are accustomed to a rifle then an xbow will be more familiar to them so the change over and learning curve isn't as drastic compared to switching to a compound. And later on the xbow might be a stepping stone towards using a compound.

But the point and shoot capabilities of a xbow is not really an advantage to me. I'm more familiar with a compound and didn't anticipate how bulky the xbow is so the advantages I find with a compound over a xbow has to do with mobility. Both in the treestand and lugging it around the woods.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Alan454 (Sep 20, 2010)

boomer_x7 said:


> 1. i never said using a compound was as hard or challenging as using trad. equipment. Nore did i ever say it was a big accomplishment. Yet from media down to even these forums a bow kill is often rendered more challenging that using a gun. (witch is how a crossbow shoots)
> 
> 2. the entire point of my posts were to show my opinion that "drawing" a crossbow to target is NOT harder than a vert. bow.
> 
> ...


Whether for or against crossbows, can you please quit comparing a crossbow to a gun. It's obvious you have no hands on experience with crossbows or you wouldn't make such an uneducated statement. Even the fastest crossbow on the market doesn't even come close to a firearm. Regardless of what some people continue to think the max range I would ever even consider with a crossbow is 35 yards, and that is if EVERYTHING is perfect. A crossbow fires a single bolt (arrow) at a max speed of around 350 fps. A shotgun with even the cheapo wally world slugs shoot at 1200 fps. Show me a deer gun that has a max range of 35 yards and shoots a bullet that can be shot slow enough for the deer to react at 35 yards or closer? Can't be done. Once again I will be the first to admit that a crossbow IS easier to pick up and shoot accurately within a couple practice sessions. However as a guy that has hunted with compound bows for several years before buying a crossbow that is where the so called "easiness" stops. 

If your going to continue to dis credit someones harvest because they chose a different "legal" weapon than yourself than maybe you should do everyone a favor and keep your biased opinions to yourself. Or if you are really that upset try to change the law, not insult your fellow law abiding hunters by posting misinformed statements that show your lack of knowledge on the subject.


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

November Sunrise said:


> The compound hunter who rails against crossbow hunters is the epitome of hypocrisy.


I shoot fingers with one pin.

14 year old Carbon Extreme pulling 73 1/2 lbs.

You bring your crossgun, I'll bring my bow.

We'll exchange weapons and shoot at 25 yards. 

20 dollars a shot, 10 shots. 

Standing, sitting and laying flat on your stomache. ( I lay down with yours anyway ) 

The one with the most bull's wins.

You game ?


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

I shot Low Brass"s crossgun the last time he was up just to see what's what.
1st time ever shooting one.

30 yards. Shouldered the weapon, popped off the safety , lined up the cross hairs in the scope and drilled the bullseye dead center.

Whoopie.


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## Alan454 (Sep 20, 2010)

Thunderhead said:


> I shoot fingers with one pin.
> 
> 14 year old Carbon Extreme pulling 73 1/2 lbs.
> 
> ...


Your what is wrong with society today. I think you just need to keep your $200 ($20 X 10) and invest in some education.


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

Alan454 said:


> Your what is wrong with society today. I think you just need to keep your $200 ($20 X 10) and invest in some education.


Take me up on my offer son and you'll be the one that gets educated.


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

Thunderhead said:


> I shot Low Brass"s crossgun the last time he was up just to see what's what.
> 1st time ever shooting one.
> 
> 30 yards. Shouldered the weapon, popped off the safety , lined up the cross hairs in the scope and drilled the bullseye dead center.
> ...


When my son was 16 he went and bought a new compound. It took him 18 minutes on the range at Schupbachs before he was completely dialed in at 10 & 20 yards, and another 15 minutes at home to get set up at 30 & 40. He's a typical compound shooter, in that he can pick it up anytime and hit bullseyes at 10, 20, and 30. 

Whoopie. 

No one falls for the BS that shooting a compound is a challenge. If someone shoots traditional equipment they can make a strong case for compounds and crossbows being easy, but a compound bow user prattling on about "challenges" or "difficulty" has no credibility on the topic.


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

November Sunrise said:


> When my son was 16 he went and bought a new compound. It took him 18 minutes on the range at Schupbachs before he was completely dialed in at 10 & 20 yards, and another 15 minutes at home to get set up at 30 & 40. He's a typical compound shooter, in that he can pick it up anytime and hit bullseyes at 10, 20, and 30.
> 
> Whoopie.
> 
> No one falls for the BS that shooting a compound is a challenge. If someone shoots traditional equipment they can make a strong case for compounds and crossbows being easy, but a compound bow user prattling on about "challenges" or "difficulty" has no credibility on the topic.


Can I take that as a YES to my challenge then ?


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## Alan454 (Sep 20, 2010)

Thunderhead said:


> Take me up on my offer son and you'll be the one that gets educated.


Why is this a competition with you? Do you have nothing better to do that start internet arguments with guys because you think your crap doesn't stink? I just don't get it. Lets say a guy with a re curve that shoots instinctively with no pins asks you to switch and shoot for $20 a shot. Are you going to do it? Guess that means your equipment gives you an advantage...just because you shoot an out of date bow, no release and a single pin doesn't give you the right to bash others for the legal choices they make. Like I mentioned earlier, if you have a problem with the law then take the steps to try to change it, but don't try to fight your rapidly declining hunting "brothers" for their choice of legal weapon.


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

Alan454 said:


> Why is this a competition with you? Do you have nothing better to do that start internet arguments with guys because you think your crap doesn't stink? I just don't get it. Lets say a guy with a re curve that shoots instinctively with no pins asks you to switch and shoot for $20 a shot. Are you going to do it? Guess that means your equipment gives you an advantage...just because you shoot an out of date bow, no release and a single pin doesn't give you the right to bash others for the legal choices they make. Like I mentioned earlier, if you have a problem with the law then take the steps to try to change it, but don't try to fight your rapidly declining hunting "brothers" for their choice of legal weapon.


Actually I DO shoot a longbow. Byron Ferguson gave it to me, and taught me how to use it.

Nobody is bashing anybody. I simply say that a crossgun takes very little skill to use.

BTW, my crap really doesn't stink. It's a medical thing. Just lucky I guess.


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

:lol:.


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

Thunderhead said:


> BTW, my crap really doesn't stink. It's a medical thing. Just lucky I guess.


:lol:. It's hard to argue with you when you come up with lines like that.

If you consider me dshooting your bow with one finger or whatever your deal is as being a "challenge", then let's save ourselves time and tell me where to send you the money :lol:. I didn't say that me shooting someone elses bow is easy - I said that shooting a compound bow is easy. You know, one that would actually fit in terms of draw length, poundage, etc. 

And of course you know that's true. The "challenge" argument just doesn't work with compounds any more than it does with crossbows.

Now hunting with a longbow? That would be a challenge. That's the real deal in my eyes.

Heading to sleep with dreams of tagging a big one. Over and out.


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

November Sunrise said:


> :lol:. It's hard to argue with you when you come up with lines like that.
> 
> If you consider me dshooting your bow with one finger or whatever your deal is as being a "challenge", then let's save ourselves time and tell me where to send you the money :lol:. I didn't say that me shooting someone elses bow is easy - I said that shooting a compound bow is easy. You know, one that would actually fit in terms of draw length, poundage, etc.
> 
> ...


Me too. Have a good nite.


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## Fred Bear (Jan 20, 2000)

the trouble with crossguns is not that they are easy (even though they are) its the gun hunters that think they are bow hunters.

one big advantage I can see is all you have to do is aim the thing in the direction of the animal as he is coming in and then do small adjustments as he gets in range. With a bow you have to wait until the right moment to draw. That is often with the animal on top of you.
a 10 year old girl can sling arrows at deer with a crossbow. I doubt many 10 year old girls can draw enough poundage to kill a deer. What happens is daddy cocks the crossgun and says just wait. MI only legalized these things because they want the deer herd slaughtered.


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## wildcoy73 (Mar 2, 2004)

Lol Michigan allows crossbows because many of us asked for them and showed the facts to the right people. 
I have a crossbow and it may surprise ya, but it sits at home when I go hunting. I go out with my xi, yep an old compound bow. I find it easier to handle in the woods. Lighter, and a lot easier to get ready for a shot.
But if a hunter wants to use one than they can. Just as with firearm season we have slabs during archery season.

living life


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

Fred Bear said:


> MI only legalized these things because they want the deer herd slaughtered.


How else am I supposed to fill my 5 doe tags per day if I don't do it with a crossbow? My right arm would be tired of drawing my vertical bow by about the 3rd of October. I am getting tired of cleaning all these deer though. Hope theres 5 left for the gun opener so I can sling some lead out of my new rifle. I'm still carrying the xbow to the blind as backup though, just in case one comes in too far out for the rifle, or if the rifle jams up cycling or something. Got to get my deer, you know.


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## jkru (Dec 20, 2010)

Fred Bear said:


> the trouble with crossguns is not that they are easy (even though they are) its the gun hunters that think they are bow hunters.
> 
> one big advantage I can see is all you have to do is aim the thing in the direction of the animal as he is coming in and then do small adjustments as he gets in range. With a bow you have to wait until the right moment to draw. That is often with the animal on top of you.
> a 10 year old girl can sling arrows at deer with a crossbow. I doubt many 10 year old girls can draw enough poundage to kill a deer. What happens is daddy cocks the crossgun and says just wait. MI only legalized these things because they want the deer herd slaughtered.


yeah because Ohio's deer herd is all but devastated after legalizing crossbows.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

jkru said:


> yeah because Ohio's deer herd is all but devastated after legalizing crossbows.


Ontario too. I know my uncle there had been hunting whitetails with a xbow since I was a kid and everybody knows theres no deer in Ontario, especially big bucks. It's been a downward spiral. I think a lot of deer from Ontario and Ohio migrated to Michigan before xbow inclusion just so they could get away from xbows. Now that Michigan allows xbows, the deer migrated back to where they're from, hence the recent, drastic falloff in Michigan's deer population the last couple years. Just a theory of mine........ lol


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

Fred Bear said:


> a 10 year old girl can sling arrows at deer with a crossbow. I doubt many 10 year old girls can draw enough poundage to kill a deer. What happens is daddy cocks the crossgun and says just wait.


I do indeed cock it for them, and then sit right by their side and hunt with them. We think it's a great thing to take kids hunting, beginning at the earliest possible age, and we do it often. 

It's at best sad, more so pathetic, that grown men would care about what weapon children use when their parents take them hunting. What's it like to go through life worrying about what 10 year old girls hunt with? 

As far as slaughtering the deer herd, the assertion is ridiculous, and has been so thoroughly discredited in so many states including now MI that it's difficult to believe that anyone would still offer up such nonsense.

Heading out the door for work and then hunting. Don't be let the little girlies and their crossbows scare you too much, as tonight might be a good time to go afield.

Over and out.


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## Sib (Jan 8, 2003)

If we ask the public whom they think is more ethical, a hunter that chooses a weapon that is easily mastered with smaller chance of failure, or a hunter that chooses a weapon that has a higher degree of failure, I wonder what they would say? No, actually, I don't :lol: that's a no brainer. 

Sportsmanship isn't choosing more difficult weapons to kill animals, that's simply ego. The challenge above his nothing to do with sportsmanship, that's just ego.

Sportsmanship is respecting your quarry and becoming proficient with whatever weapon you choose. A sportsman would choose a crossbow for deer hunting if they didn't have the time and inclination to master a vertical bow. Choosing a weapon they can master instead of going into the woods with a weapon they haven't mastered is the epitome of sportsmanship.


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## Fred Bear (Jan 20, 2000)

trouble is most crossbow hunters dont even master that. And they certainly are not gunna seek out a forum like this.


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## Sib (Jan 8, 2003)

Fred Bear said:


> trouble is most crossbow hunters dont even master that. And they certainly are not gunna seek out a forum like this.


Would love to see those studies, or are you just offering opinion?


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

Fred Bear said:


> the trouble with crossguns is not that they are easy (even though they are) its the gun hunters that think they are bow hunters.
> 
> one big advantage I can see is all you have to do is aim the thing in the direction of the animal as he is coming in and then do small adjustments as he gets in range. With a bow you have to wait until the right moment to draw. That is often with the animal on top of you.
> a 10 year old girl can sling arrows at deer with a crossbow. I doubt many 10 year old girls can draw enough poundage to kill a deer. What happens is daddy cocks the crossgun and says just wait. MI only legalized these things because they want the deer herd slaughtered.


I will put out a challenge. I cannot point at the deer and wait for him to come in from any distance in a tree stand and wait for him. I have to do exactly what the compound shooter does, that is wait until he is nearly in position to shoot. Otherwise, the weight forward, heavy piece of equipment would win the battle.

Again, you are bringing up things that you are just making up because you appear to have no experience with the equipment. It actually makes you look silly to say that you think a person can hold a crossbow on target freehand longer than he can hold an appropriately weighted compound at full draw.

If you have a rest, sure, you could do what you say. But there are few treestand situations where you can have a reliable chance of using a rest with the crossbow. None in my set-ups. I am not raising the thing until the deer ducks his head behind a tree or turns to quarter away, at exactly the time I would draw the bow.

My challenge is this. I will bet you cannot hold a crossbow on target and make the shot as long as you can hold your compound at full draw and make an accurate shot. I know I can't without my arms turning to lead.


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

bioactive said:


> I will put out a challenge. I cannot point at the deer and wait for him to come in from any distance in a tree stand and wait for him. I have to do exactly what the compound shooter does, that is wait until he is nearly in position to shoot. Otherwise, the weight forward, heavy piece of equipment would win the battle.
> 
> Again, you are bringing up things that you are just making up because you appear to have no experience with the equipment. It actually makes you look silly to say that you think a person can hold a crossbow on target freehand longer than he can hold an appropriately weighted compound at full draw.
> 
> ...


What you're describing is no different with a gun... How long can you hold a gun free-hand on a deer, until it gets into position for a shot?


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

William H Bonney said:


> What you're describing is no different with a gun... How long can you hold a gun free-hand on a deer, until it gets into position for a shot?


Not very long free hand. But the advantage is, you can make a move at 50 yards plus without as much chance of getting picked up by the deer. With a compound or crossbow, you are getting into position usually within 30 yards. Much easier to get picked up.

Plus, my crossbow is more weight forward than any gun I have (except for my 12 ga. Ithaca Deerslayer 3, which has a huge thick barrel). I simply cannot aim it at the deer any sooner than I could my compound bow.


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

oh the defending x-bow arguments are still comical:lol:


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## Sib (Jan 8, 2003)

sbooy42 said:


> oh the defending x-bow arguments are still comical:lol:


In order to see the defense, you admit the offense.


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

Sib said:


> In order to see the defense, you admit the offense.


 yes...oh almost forgot the  thingy


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## Fred Bear (Jan 20, 2000)

well maybe I'm all wet on the crossgun thing. LOL! but if its so much harder than a real bow, why are you using it?

Besides that there are plenty of vertical bow shooters that are slobs too. This crossgun thing just lets the slob gun hunters join us. That is what I have witnessed in the circle of people I talk to. (not friends just people that ask me "how many did you get?" kind of coworkers). Convince me why an able bodied hunter would choose a crossbow? I dunno. But I guess they can now. It is was it is, and I'm not gunna agree on crossguns and neither are you. Lets just agree to disagree.


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## Big 10 (Nov 2, 2005)

Fred Bear said:


> the trouble with crossguns is not that they are easy (even though they are) its the gun hunters that think they are bow hunters.
> 
> one big advantage I can see is all you have to do is aim the thing in the direction of the animal as he is coming in and then do small adjustments as he gets in range. With a bow you have to wait until the right moment to draw. That is often with the animal on top of you.
> a 10 year old girl can sling arrows at deer with a crossbow. I doubt many 10 year old girls can draw enough poundage to kill a deer. What happens is daddy cocks the crossgun and says just wait. MI only legalized these things because they want the deer herd slaughtered.


Your right a 10 year old can _sling _arrows with a xbow..just like anybody can with any archery weapon. But what the 10 year old is doing, is learning from there Dad or Mom. or whom ever it is that is taking the time to teach them the skills needed..its more then just point and shoot, theres also the scouting, the patience, the timing, listening and looking for the deer and shot placement. You see, we still need to get the deer in close, most of us while hunting from the ground, not up in a tree where you get a little advantage for movement ( i said little). I have had my son pass on a shot because he said it didnt feel right,,he learned that by holding the xbow and doing the hunt. We practice, he knows what distance we shoot, and to be patient. Trust me, its not as easy as you think..its not a guarentee. Now what kills me is some of you xbow haters, are the same guys that sit on the edge of a corn filed, in there heated blinds, that have a gun rest for there High Powered Rifles with high powered scopes, binos, range finders and who knows what else and shoots a deer at 200 yards...to me, _thats easy. _


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## miruss (Apr 18, 2003)

Fred Bear said:


> well maybe I'm all wet on the crossgun thing. LOL! but if its so much harder than a real bow, why are you using it?
> 
> Besides that there are plenty of vertical bow shooters that are slobs too. This crossgun thing just lets the slob gun hunters join us. That is what I have witnessed in the circle of people I talk to. (not friends just people that ask me "how many did you get?" kind of coworkers). Convince me why an able bodied hunter would choose a crossbow? I dunno. But I guess they can now. It is was it is, and I'm not gunna agree on crossguns and neither are you. Lets just agree to disagree.


because i got tired of shooting deer with a compound who knows next yr might try a longbow


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## Jigin-N-Grinin (Jan 22, 2008)

Alan454 said:


> Whether for or against crossbows, can you please quit comparing a crossbow to a gun. It's obvious you have no hands on experience with crossbows or you wouldn't make such an uneducated statement. Even the fastest crossbow on the market doesn't even come close to a firearm. Regardless of what some people continue to think the max range I would ever even consider with a crossbow is 35 yards, and that is if EVERYTHING is perfect. A crossbow fires a single bolt (arrow) at a max speed of around 350 fps. A shotgun with even the cheapo wally world slugs shoot at 1200 fps. Show me a deer gun that has a max range of 35 yards and shoots a bullet that can be shot slow enough for the deer to react at 35 yards or closer? Can't be done. Once again I will be the first to admit that a crossbow IS easier to pick up and shoot accurately within a couple practice sessions. However as a guy that has hunted with compound bows for several years before buying a crossbow that is where the so called "easiness" stops.
> 
> If your going to continue to dis credit someones harvest because they chose a different "legal" weapon than yourself than maybe you should do everyone a favor and keep your biased opinions to yourself. Or if you are really that upset try to change the law, not insult your fellow law abiding hunters by posting misinformed statements that show your lack of knowledge on the subject.


Good post!!!! This is thee best post Ive read on the crossbow vs. compound debate in ANY forum. This summed it all up and should have ended this thread with this post.

But feel free to argue.....the anti crossbow ignorance from some of you freeks is great entertainment.


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## Long2fish (Dec 18, 2006)

Fred Bear said:


> well maybe I'm all wet on the crossgun thing. LOL! but if its so much harder than a real bow, why are you using it?
> 
> Besides that there are plenty of vertical bow shooters that are slobs too. This crossgun thing just lets the slob gun hunters join us. That is what I have witnessed in the circle of people I talk to. (not friends just people that ask me "how many did you get?" kind of coworkers). Convince me why an able bodied hunter would choose a crossbow? I dunno. But I guess they can now. It is was it is, and I'm not gunna agree on crossguns and neither are you. Lets just agree to disagree.


Since the new crossbow law, my son and I have had a blast with a new hobby. I was always a gun hunter and loved it. I would always hear from my friends, once you start bow hunting you will not think of gun hunting the same. I still love to gun hunt, but man do I love taking my son out bow hunting and teaching him a little more about the outdoors. He is eleven and saved all of his own money up to buy his own crossbow. 
It seems like to me that many of the opisition against crossbows say there beef but then throw in something about how it has allowed more people to bow hunt and then calling them slobs. I thought the point was to get more people into this great sport of deer hunting and encourage the growth of this fabulous resource we have. So sorry if you are disappointed that people like myself are now head over heals into bow hunting, but I am not because every deer my son and I have shot together over the last two years has been as cool as any 200 + buck possible. (although I sure would like to beable to compare the two some day). 
So congradulations to all that have been successful this year, whether that is two super dandy bucks in one day or one more day spent bonding with your son


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

Long2fish 

I dont think he was saying your a slob hunter. Your are supposed to get more people involved. The people he is taking shots at are the ones who think the crossbow is a gun and fling arrows at everything in sight. therefore wounding deer and ruining our great resources. Glad you and you son are having fun i know ill never forget hunting with my dad.

Edit: Im taking shots at any able bodied hunter over the age of 14 who chooses to take the easy way out


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## musicman34 (Oct 7, 2011)

jimmyo17 said:


> Long2fish
> 
> I dont think he was saying your a slob hunter. Your are supposed to get more people involved. The people he is taking shots at are the ones who think the crossbow is a gun and fling arrows at everything in sight. therefore wounding deer and ruining our great resources. Glad you and you son are having fun i know ill never forget hunting with my dad.
> 
> Edit: Im taking shots at any able bodied hunter over the age of 14 who chooses to take the easy way out


Able bodied has nothing to do with it. If you are so able bodied, ditch the compound bow and get a longbow. Then you can really thump your chest all you want in front of both of your friends. The "flinging arrows" BS doesn't wash either. There are just as many fancy compound bow users flinging arrows at deer and wounding them. Just read some of these threads since the season started. I don't use a crossbow, so I have no dog in this fight. I just don't understand what all the fuss over crossbows is about. It is now legal to use them. Get over it.


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

musicman34 said:


> Able bodied has nothing to do with it. If you are so able bodied, ditch the compound bow and get a longbow. Then you can really thump your chest all you want in front of both of your friends. The "flinging arrows" BS doesn't wash either. There are just as many fancy compound bow users flinging arrows at deer and wounding them. Just read some of these threads since the season started. I don't use a crossbow, so I have no dog in this fight. I just don't understand what all the fuss over crossbows is about. It is now legal to use them. Get over it.


 Just to fill you in i am buying a traditional bow from a member on this site and plan on ditching the compound after this season. Able bodied has alot to do with it. if you cant pull a bow you should get a crossbow. Im over it 
Are you?


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## laterilus (Mar 18, 2006)

jimmyo17 said:


> Just to fill you in i am buying a traditional bow from a member on this site and plan on ditching the compound after this season. Able bodied has alot to do with it. if you cant pull a bow you should get a crossbow. Im over it
> Are you?


 Dont hurt your arm patting yourself on the back!!


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

November Sunrise said:


> I do indeed cock it for them, and then sit right by their side and hunt with them. We think it's a great thing to take kids hunting, beginning at the earliest possible age, and we do it often.
> 
> It's at best sad, more so pathetic, that grown men would care about what weapon children use when their parents take them hunting. What's it like to go through life worrying about what 10 year old girls hunt with?
> 
> ...


The saddest part is that someone with such an ill disposition can choose the screen name of someone who was exceedingly accepting of new technology, and who refrained from judging others based on their legal choice of weapon.

Sad and disappointing.


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## Riva (Aug 10, 2006)

Here, once and for all, is the answer that the OP seeks....

*"The Wildlife Division has stated that the use of crossbows will not have a negative effect upon wildlife populations."*

Michigan Department of Natural Resources: January, 2009


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

Fred Bear said:


> well maybe I'm all wet on the crossgun thing. LOL! but if its so much harder than a real bow, why are you using it?
> 
> Besides that there are plenty of vertical bow shooters that are slobs too. This crossgun thing just lets the slob gun hunters join us. That is what I have witnessed in the circle of people I talk to. (not friends just people that ask me "how many did you get?" kind of coworkers). Convince me why an able bodied hunter would choose a crossbow? I dunno. But I guess they can now. It is was it is, and I'm not gunna agree on crossguns and neither are you. Lets just agree to disagree.


As I said, there are positives and negatives. For someone like me, the positives outweigh the negatives. I suspect most 20-30 somethings if they actually had the experience of shooting both, would choose the vertical bow hands down because they can shoot farther with more kinetic energy and as good accuracy as a crossbow if they practice regularly. I practice regularly with my crossbow and I am not nearly as good a shot, nor can I take as long a shot as some of my friends who use vertical bows.

As one ages into their 40s, 50s, and 60s, the choice is probably going to trend towards the crossbow. If a person isn't using a crossbow by age 60, I would have to say it is probably their ego that is intervening, or they just don't understand that the technologies are roughly equal in capabilities, but have offsetting advantages and disadvantages for people depending on a lot of variables, such as age, health, time they can practice etc.

But as I have said repeatedly, the one thing that is truly ridiculous, and reveals that a person does not have experience with the crossbow, is when they say that it is easier to line up the shot. It just ain't so. 

Your use of the term crossgun is absurd. While you may not think a crossbow is a bow, in fact the rest of the world thinks it is. The way I can tell that is by looking up the word "bow" in an encyclopeida. When I do that, I will find a section on crossbows.

Here is one from Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bow_(weapon)

This one contains discussions from the Britannica and Columbia encyclopedias.

http://www.answers.com/topic/bow-weapon

If you were a non-biased person who simply wanted to find out what a bow is in a general encyclopedia, you would find a discussion of a crossbow. Why? They are almost identical tools. They both have a string you pull back that provides energy to send an arrow towards a target. The differences are that in one case the string is pulled ahead of time and held in place to be released by the pull of a trigger. The other is pulled in the moments before the shot, held by the hunter and released (by the pull of a trigger 99% of the time in modern times). The only other major differences are that one is held in a vertical and the other in a horizontal orientation.

Both are derived from ancient weapons but neither of the modern forms are a primitive weapon. They deliver roughly the same energy (with a little bit of advantage to the compound bow in most cases), and are good killing machines only out to about 30 yards in the hands of the average hunter.

My embarrassment. I bought a crossbow after they were legalized. When I got home, thinking it was a "crossgun" I tried to shoot one of my Hornady SST slugs from it---it wouldn't fit:yikes:. So then I tried a 30-06 round--didn't work....hmmm...I got an idea... So I took a short arrow, took the broadhead off my compound arrows, and boy, the thing actually shot them.

Let's see...shoot arrows with exactly the same broadheads. Uses a string to fling the arrow. has pulleys and cams just like the ones on my compound bow except they are oriented horizontally instead of vertically. The arrow flies with almost identical physics, except with a tendency to drop energy quicker than a compound bow at distances over 40 yards. It won't penetrate the shoulder of a deer right at the spot where I always shoot them with my gun.

Oh...I know the difference, I pull a trigger to shoot it...but wait, I pull a trigger on my compound bow to shoot it too!

Wait, it is easier to kill a deer with a crossbow, right? Well, not according to the statistics from Ohio, where success with a compound bow and crossbow are statistically equal. let's see...hmmm...

Hmmmm. Oh, I know, I have to pull the compound bow sting back. Wait, that can't be it, because I pull a string back on the crossbow too.

So, according to your derisive term "crossgun" the encyclopedias should include it with instruments that use gunpowder to propel bullets through a tube. Obviously it fits better under the classification "gun." Right Fred Bear?

Or should they include it with instruments that use a sting to propel a sharp stick?


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## bioactive (Oct 30, 2005)

jimmyo17 said:


> Edit: Im taking shots at any able bodied hunter over the age of 14 who chooses to take the easy way out


So you believe that anybody who uses a compound bow is taking the easy way out, right?

That is an indictment of a large number of hunters.

Obviously you are a longbow shooter who makes his own arrows and uses stone points.

Otherwise, you are using a tool that would make it "easier."


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

Having shot both, I don't know how anybody can say a crossbow is not easier to shoot.


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## Fred Bear (Jan 20, 2000)

the only thing a crossgun and a vertical bow have in common is they both shoot a sharp stick. If you cant see that I'm not gunna explain.


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## TheCrawdad (May 9, 2009)

bioactive said:


> So you believe that anybody who uses a compound bow is taking the easy way out, right?
> 
> That is an indictment of a large number of hunters.
> 
> ...


 For the record, I own and have killed deer with both. If this chump were half as tough as he talks, he would know that killing a deer with any weapon is "the easy way out". Any real man knows the only way to properly dispatch a deer and keep your man card is with a bite to the throat. (Truth is he probably can't afford one, and is jealous :lol


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

2PawsRiver said:


> Having shot both, I don't know how anybody can say a crossbow is not easier to shoot.


Compounds and crossbows = both easy. 

The difference is that there's a percentage of compound shooters who labor under the illusion that their way is "challenging", conveniently ignoring the obvious fact that they've chosen an exponentially easier option than those who shoot traditional equipment. 

It's the old pot calling the kettle black routine.


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## SWAT Hunter (Sep 22, 2011)

Bio,
We all know what side you are on because you own a crossgun. lol and I glad to here you have a FRIEND...... and he shoots a compound.... But if you think... YOU need to post the definition of the word "bow" to everyone because we don't really know what it is then.. YOU have way too much time on your hands. Don't you have a trespasser to catch? I just wasted 5 minutes of my life reading your definition of the word bow. Thanks but no thanks for posting your garbage.


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## TheCrawdad (May 9, 2009)

2PawsRiver said:


> Having shot both, I don't know how anybody can say a crossbow is not easier to shoot.


I thought this whole discussion was about which one was easier to hunt with - not which one was easier to shoot.


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## musicman34 (Oct 7, 2011)

jimmyo17 said:


> Just to fill you in i am buying a traditional bow from a member on this site and plan on ditching the compound after this season. Able bodied has alot to do with it. if you cant pull a bow you should get a crossbow. Im over it
> Are you?


Like I said, after you have mastered the longbow, be sure to tell all of us about it. And especially tell both of your friends that now you are THE MAN because you shoot a longbow. And we will be waiting anxiously to hear you tell everyone how it is such a sin for all those able-bodied panzies using crossbows. And we will still be laughing at your ridiculous comments, even louder than we are now. Can't hardly wait. Go get em', you he-man you!


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## SWAT Hunter (Sep 22, 2011)

Alan454 said:


> Whether for or against crossbows, can you please quit comparing a crossbow to a gun. It's obvious you have no hands on experience with crossbows or you wouldn't make such an uneducated statement. Even the fastest crossbow on the market doesn't even come close to a firearm. Regardless of what some people continue to think the max range I would ever even consider with a crossbow is 35 yards, and that is if EVERYTHING is perfect. A crossbow fires a single bolt (arrow) at a max speed of around 350 fps. A shotgun with even the cheapo wally world slugs shoot at 1200 fps. Show me a deer gun that has a max range of 35 yards and shoots a bullet that can be shot slow enough for the deer to react at 35 yards or closer? Can't be done. Once again I will be the first to admit that a crossbow IS easier to pick up and shoot accurately within a couple practice sessions. However as a guy that has hunted with compound bows for several years before buying a crossbow that is where the so called "easiness" stops.
> 
> If your going to continue to dis credit someones harvest because they chose a different "legal" weapon than yourself than maybe you should do everyone a favor and keep your biased opinions to yourself. Or if you are really that upset try to change the law, not insult your fellow law abiding hunters by posting misinformed statements that show your lack of knowledge on the subject.


This guy hit the bulls eye for me... Are you running in any elections in the future? You got my vote...ding...ding...ding... We have a winner. LOL

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## Riva (Aug 10, 2006)

Here, once and for all, is the answer that the OP seeks....

*"The Wildlife Division has stated that the use of crossbows will not have a negative effect upon wildlife populations."*

Michigan Department of Natural Resources: January, 2009


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

TheCrawdad said:


> For the record, I own and have killed deer with both. If this chump were half as tough as he talks, he would know that killing a deer with any weapon is "the easy way out". Any real man knows the only way to properly dispatch a deer and keep your man card is with a bite to the throat. (Truth is he probably can't afford one, and is jealous :lol


 Your quite the joker. Never claimed to be tough dont know were that came from but id wager im tougher than you think  Last time i checked 99% of the time the one who runs his mouth doesnt fair to well. Typical trash talker from clio.


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

laterilus said:


> Dont hurt your arm patting yourself on the back!!


 Haha im getting a trad bow to challenge myself not so i can brag about killing domething with it


bioactive said:


> So you believe that anybody who uses a compound bow is taking the easy way out, right?
> 
> That is an indictment of a large number of hunters.
> 
> ...


 Like i said getting rid of the compound but i will not be making my own arrows or heads. The reason being i have no clue how to even start that process


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

bioactive said:


> ..... I cannot point at the deer and wait for him to come in from any distance in a tree stand and wait for him. I have to do exactly what the compound shooter does, that is wait until he is nearly in position to shoot. Otherwise, the weight forward, heavy piece of equipment would win the battle.
> ....................
> .


We probably started using a crossbow the same year, the first year of the crossbow for Michigan rule.
I think I have taken 9 deer so far with the Xbow and in every case I have been able to rest my elbow holding the bow on my thigh or on the elbow rest of the ladderstand. I haven't had to hold the weight of the bow. 2 of the 9 were taken with my opposite hand, when the buck appeared over that shoulder. Now that is something that I would have never considered with my compound bow. 
How many times have you had to hold the weight of the bow and not rest your elbow on your knee ?

L & O


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## TheCrawdad (May 9, 2009)

jimmyo17 said:


> Your quite the joker. Never claimed to be tought dont know were that came from but id wager im tougher than you think


Perhaps it was when you decided to heavily imply that anyone who opts to use a crossbow is a sissy... 

Of course you're tough, after all this is the internet!


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## SWAT Hunter (Sep 22, 2011)

TheCrawdad said:


> Perhaps it was when you decided to heavily imply that anyone who opts to use a crossbow is a sissy...
> 
> Of course you're tough, after all this is the internet!


Lmfao.... I have to remember that one.


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## boomer_x7 (Dec 19, 2008)

Alan454 said:


> Whether for or against crossbows, can you please quit comparing a crossbow to a gun. It's obvious you have no hands on experience with crossbows or you wouldn't make such an uneducated statement. Even the fastest crossbow on the market doesn't even come close to a firearm. Regardless of what some people continue to think the max range I would ever even consider with a crossbow is 35 yards, and that is if EVERYTHING is perfect. A crossbow fires a single bolt (arrow) at a max speed of around 350 fps. A shotgun with even the cheapo wally world slugs shoot at 1200 fps. Show me a deer gun that has a max range of 35 yards and shoots a bullet that can be shot slow enough for the deer to react at 35 yards or closer? Can't be done. Once again I will be the first to admit that a crossbow IS easier to pick up and shoot accurately within a couple practice sessions. However as a guy that has hunted with compound bows for several years before buying a crossbow that is where the so called "easiness" stops.
> 
> If your going to continue to dis credit someones harvest because they chose a different "legal" weapon than yourself than maybe you should do everyone a favor and keep your biased opinions to yourself. Or if you are really that upset try to change the law, not insult your fellow law abiding hunters by posting misinformed statements that show your lack of knowledge on the subject.


 
The reason i compare a crossbow to a gun is that it requires about the same skill to shoot a bowgun as it does to shoot a firearm. i know how fast a bowgun and a shotgun shoot and FYI the top of the line bowguns are rated at over 400fpsWitch goes to show between the 2 of us who is lacking in knolwedge on this subject.

In no way have i diss-credited anyones harvest in this thread or any other thread because they used a crossbow so maybe YOU should keep your biased accusations to YOURSELF! As far as my opinion... thats what a forum is pretty much all about. We all have opinons and this is a place where we show them, disscuss them and sometimes argue over them. Also what miss-informed statement have i posted in this thread. My argument was with BIO in that it is harder to pull up a crossbow than it is a compound. I have read no where, wheere a study shows this, therefore we were arguing over our opinions.He led on to try and compare the 2 to being hardly diff from one another. All i have done with that is simply state facts.


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## TheCrawdad (May 9, 2009)

jimmyo17 said:


> Edit: Im taking shots at any able bodied hunter over the age of 14 who chooses to take the easy way out


This help you out tough guy?


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

TheCrawdad said:


> This help you out tough guy?


 Actually no because nowere in there was there any name calling. Gettin under your skin there crawdad? Just to spice it up ill go out on a limb here and say you guys suck at everything especially sports. lol


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

...


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## TheCrawdad (May 9, 2009)

jimmyo17 said:


> Actually no because nowere in there was there any name calling. Gettin under your skin there crawdad? Just to spice it up ill go out on a limb here and say you guys suck at everything especially sports. lol


 Actually, I'm LMAO. It's all fun to me.  BTW, since you seem to have a problem with literacy, I didn't say you "called" any names, just "heavily implied" it.


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## PaleRider (Oct 24, 2007)

"and I think that's the reason yellow makes me sad."


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

I think the only thing that I dislike more then the crossbow is that damn term "Harvest" and alan454 took it to a whole new level.


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

TheCrawdad said:


> Actually, I'm LMAO. It's all fun to me.  BTW, since you seem to have a problem with literacy, I didn't say you "called" any names, just "heavily implied" it.


 Haha well thats good were both having a good time.


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## TheCrawdad (May 9, 2009)

2PawsRiver said:


> I think the only thing that I dislike more then the crossbow is that damn term "Harvest" and alan454 took it to a whole new level.


 How would you feel if I were to tell the story of the 1.5 yo "sparky" I "harvested" with my crossbow...... Over a bait pile!?!? :lol: LOL


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

TheCrawdad said:


> How would you feel if I were to tell the story of the 1.5 yo "sparky" I "harvested" with my crossbow...... Over a bait pile!?!? :lol: LOL


Were you also sitting on the property line and gut shoot this deer ? Did you trespass to recover the body ? Any truth to the rumor that you only removed the antlers and backstraps from the buck and then dumped the rest of the body next to the bedsprings that you dropped off last summer along that dirt road ?

L & O


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## TheCrawdad (May 9, 2009)

Liver and Onions said:


> Were you also sitting on the property line and gut shoot this deer ? Did you trespass to recover the body ? Any truth to the rumor that you only removed the antlers and backstraps from the buck and then dumped the rest of the body next to the bedsprings that you dropped off last summer along that dirt road ?
> 
> L & O


 Those bedsprings weren't mine. LMAO CDAD


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## bansheejoel (Oct 15, 2009)

wow ive missed alot. Myself i am against crossbows, i have alot of opinions but it isnt gonna change anything. Its legal, plain and simple if someone wants to use one go ahead. There are alot bigger things to worry about in this state than a crossbow. Now when they allow hunting at night to manage does or to harvest the mature bucks, then i will speak up. Until then threads like this just get everone going. Who cares, go out hunting with whatever you want and enjoy it instead of bitching online. This state doesnt give a shi* about anything other than money and it will come back to bite them in the ****. Have fun fellas


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## Cherokee (May 24, 2004)

Love my basic Wicked Ridge Warrior entry level Xbow( 285fps ). I sit in a hub blind safely on the ground and feel deadly accurate when I squeeze the trigger and can double lung with no sharp angles to worry / compensate about. Guess I just want clean, effective kills and saftey as my greatest priority now that I'm half a century old. I have no physical disabilities either. I've had plenty of "challenges" when learning how to hunt federal land in Lake County. Now I enjoy the new 'challenge" of small tract suburban hunting here in Kent County - things change - that's the only thing that's sure.

Spent all my younger years until last 20foot up in a tree - started out as a teen with an Allen Speedster compound bow( a FAR cry from all of your Solocams) and ended two years ago with a simple Bear Lights Out. Never had / enjoyed state of the art archery equipment - except for my Chippewa Wedge Loc fixed stands and a saftey harness that kept me from getting paralyzed / killed.

Happy to be able to use an Xbow. I can still pass on deer if I choose. When I decide to squeeze - very confident...that's a proper feeling. Maimed a couple in my 30+ years with a bow.. - I prefer, as we all do, clean kills....the xbow provides me that confidence to squeeze.

As a side note - I upgraded to a 20ga Ultra Slugger Light over the old smooth bore rattlin' Mossy 500....it's a tack driver that requires absolutely no skill either...especially when tossing SST's. I attribute that accuracy partially to the Expert badge the Army awarded me when they trained me to kill humans with an M16 ( do they still use those? ).

This thread is ridiculous and I just added to it.... Xbows are not going to change the Michigan deer herd....


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## musicman34 (Oct 7, 2011)

That there, my friends, is a good, intelligent post. Good luck, Cherokee!


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

musicman34 said:


> That there, my friends, is a good, intelligent post. Good luck, Cherokee!


Sure it is, it's pro crossbow.


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

boomer_x7 said:


> The reason i compare a crossbow to a gun is that it requires about the same skill to shoot a bowgun as it does to shoot a firearm. i know how fast a bowgun and a shotgun shoot and FYI the top of the line bowguns are rated at over 400fpsWitch goes to show between the 2 of us who is lacking in knolwedge on this subject.


Oooh... 400 fps! Almost half as fast as my cheap Crossman pellet gun. Definitely comparable to a firearm.


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## huntingfool43 (Mar 16, 2002)

Cherokee said:


> Love my basic Wicked Ridge Warrior entry level Xbow( 285fps ). I sit in a hub blind safely on the ground and feel deadly accurate when I squeeze the trigger and can double lung with no sharp angles to worry / compensate about. Guess I just want clean, effective kills and saftey as my greatest priority now that I'm half a century old. I have no physical disabilities either. I've had plenty of "challenges" when learning how to hunt federal land in Lake County. Now I enjoy the new 'challenge" of small tract suburban hunting here in Kent County - things change - that's the only thing that's sure.
> 
> Spent all my younger years until last 20foot up in a tree - started out as a teen with an Allen Speedster compound bow( a FAR cry from all of your Solocams) and ended two years ago with a simple Bear Lights Out. Never had / enjoyed state of the art archery equipment - except for my Chippewa Wedge Loc fixed stands and a saftey harness that kept me from getting paralyzed / killed.
> 
> ...


Very good post Cherokee, could not have said it any better myself.


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## triplelunger (Dec 21, 2009)

Help me out here.
Is there any point to reading past the first post?


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

triplelunger said:


> Help me out here.
> Is there any point to reading past the first post?


About as much point as bumping this to the first page and not letting it die.


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## freeheel (Oct 17, 2007)

Cherokee said:


> Love my basic Wicked Ridge Warrior entry level Xbow( 285fps ). I sit in a hub blind safely on the ground and feel deadly accurate when I squeeze the trigger and can double lung with no sharp angles to worry / compensate about. Guess I just want clean, effective kills and saftey as my greatest priority now that I'm half a century old. I have no physical disabilities either. I've had plenty of "challenges" when learning how to hunt federal land in Lake County. Now I enjoy the new 'challenge" of small tract suburban hunting here in Kent County - things change - that's the only thing that's sure.
> 
> Spent all my younger years until last 20foot up in a tree - started out as a teen with an Allen Speedster compound bow( a FAR cry from all of your Solocams) and ended two years ago with a simple Bear Lights Out. Never had / enjoyed state of the art archery equipment - except for my Chippewa Wedge Loc fixed stands and a saftey harness that kept me from getting paralyzed / killed.
> 
> ...


 
well said


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

> . Xbows are not going to change the Michigan deer herd....


...true, but it will change the Michigan deer hunter.


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