# "Best" factory .40 self defense loads



## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

I had a poster of different handgun bullets and how they performed after going through various media such as clothing, glass, etc. I thought I could find it online but all I found was a similar one, just for the Speer Gold Dot. The one I had had quite a few different bullets. Anyway, here's some interesting links:

http://www.le.atk.com/pdf/Pierce County Workshop.pdf

http://www.le.atk.com/pdf/PortlandReport.pdf

http://www.le.atk.com/pdf/38-GOLDDOT_LE_AD_2004.pdf

http://www.le.atk.com/pdf/SpeerTech38_135HP.pdf


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## Wetlandhunter (Jun 7, 2005)

Huntsman27 said:


> or your saying you like them?


That is what they were designed for in the late 90's.They are good.


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

Wetlandhunter said:


> That is what they were designed for in the late 90's.They are good.


 thanks for clarifying.


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

USMCSniper said:


> I agree deputy that JHP is obviously prefered, I am speaking simply through my own experience in both the military and later as a PSD with DOS in Iraq. In the military we obviously could not use JHP only FMJ, but as a PSD we could used whatever we wanted, I feel that the FMJ penetrating a windshield greatly decreased fragmentation and ricochet of a JHP following it. I have seen several times where JHP did not find their target after going through an intact windshield. I was carrying a Glock 23 and in 6 different encounters it has worked for me to carry alternating. Now that said am I a ballistics expert, or do I have 10 pages of studies behind my theory, NOPE, so take it for what its worth, it worked for me, and I'm here to tell you about it. but it is just that a personal *THEORY*, I can talk all day about 7.62 or .50 cal rounds trajectory, wound channel, drift, yada yada yada, but I admit I am not a handgun expert


research, and see what works for me rather than statistical data which as anyone knows can be skewed and turned towards anyones ideas. Thanks for your info.


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## deputy (Feb 2, 2002)

the info i have quoted coem from the noted trusted and respected man in the buisness today who has no stake in any company or ammo etc.... he is often the most searched out person on this topic.... i trust him 100%

you cannot reproduce the real world........ each and every body ,clothing, mind are differnt his data coem from more real world info than you ever shake a stick or try to cover...........his findings if you notice make no claim to one bullet....


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## deputy (Feb 2, 2002)

Wetlandhunter said:


> Gold dots we designed years back for windshield shot and car doors.Plus they open up twice there dia.



as were every other hp design after the miami shootout..... not just gold dots

humm winchester sxt's pictured here


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

not SXTs because they have the nice little cut tips everyone in the medical field jumped up and down about that would cut the doctors. Was interesting how fast Win got them off the market for the Govt.....couldnt have been the possibility of the cancelation of military contracts could it?:lol:


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## deputy (Feb 2, 2002)

that was on the old BT laod the sxt are very much still on the selves and are still in prouduction.

the new sxt/sxt ranger loads are still out there to everyone to buy at very good prices.

the new sxt are actually better in design and preform better than the BT load those pictured are sxt ranger loads


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

wow, deputy, love the info.

anyone else see the immediate correlation between handgun studies and your average muzzleloader? very applicable.


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## clattin (Jul 8, 2000)

I just bought the SXT's yesterday for my 40 and my 9 at Gander Mtn for $18/box, I think. 

I also emailed my buddy thats an FBI agent to see what they're shooting when they want to put a threat down immediately. He's not a desk agent, he's actually kicking in doors on a daily basis so I figure if he trusts it, I will too. I'll post when he gets back to me.

Chris


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## Wetlandhunter (Jun 7, 2005)

Huntsman27 said:


> not SXTs because they have the nice little cut tips everyone in the medical field jumped up and down about that would cut the doctors. Was interesting how fast Win got them off the market for the Govt.....couldnt have been the possibility of the cancelation of military contracts could it?:lol:


 
The .357sig is a beautiful round.My option it is the best defense round.


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## Wetlandhunter (Jun 7, 2005)

deputy said:


> as were every other hp design after the miami shootout..... not just gold dots
> 
> humm winchester sxt's pictured here


 
GD was one of the first out in the 90's.I am not saying they are the best now.Black Talon are the s***.But if us use then in your gun for self defense for your carry gun you will get in a poopy of a mess.Home defense is probably ok.


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## deputy (Feb 2, 2002)

you are wrong about that!

there are no laws against there use or carry! period.... the old Blacktalons no longer made were a nice bullet the new version copper colored and labled the sxt ranger are much more effective and a better bullet design.


you don tgo to jail for bullets you go to jail for bad shoots wow but then again the our new laws are great for the us the good guys

I carry sxt round so do lot of my my friends you have bigger things to worry about in a shooting


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## deputy (Feb 2, 2002)

clattin said:


> I just bought the SXT's yesterday for my 40 and my 9 at Gander Mtn for $18/box, I think.
> 
> I also emailed my buddy thats an FBI agent to see what they're shooting when they want to put a threat down immediately. He's not a desk agent, he's actually kicking in doors on a daily basis so I figure if he trusts it, I will too. I'll post when he gets back to me.
> 
> Chris



if he is on HRT he use a 45 if he is a street guy he may be using several differnt guns from sig in 9mm to 357 sig, or a glock in 40

they at last notice were using winchester sxt and or remington golden sabers at last notice


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## Wetlandhunter (Jun 7, 2005)

deputy said:


> you are wrong about that!
> 
> there are no laws against there use or carry! period.... the old Blacktalons no longer made were a nice bullet the new version copper colored and labled the sxt ranger are much more effective and a better bullet design.
> 
> Years ago our instructor had told us black talons we not suited for using for a carry gun because they were deemed cop killers.


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## deputy (Feb 2, 2002)

LMAO yah more bright information from the local commando

ammo is put through a series of test on armor/and other materials before it is ever released

over the past few years i have heard so much junk for students who say that in my ccw class told us this or that i have a several pages of info to make sure my students get real info not bs.


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## deputy (Feb 2, 2002)

There is no Federal law that prohibits a private citizen from purchasing or possessing any of the Black Talon bullet variants. Additionally, there is no Federal law, which forbids private possession and use of "law enforcement" handgun ammunition, except specifically defined armor-piercing handgun ammunition. Black Talon, Ranger SXT and Ranger Talon do not meet the criteria for armor-piercing handgun ammunition as defined by Federal law. However, there may be State or local laws that ban private possession of Black Talon and its variants.

The negative media frenzy of late 1993 produced untrue assertions that Black Talon was an armor-piercing "cop-killer" bullet. We've fired both 9mm and .40 S&W Black Talon bullets into threat level IIA soft body armor and the armor easily stopped the bullets. The "armor-piercing" myth may have originated from the markings used on certain military small-arms ammunition. U.S. military cartridges with a black painted tip indicates the bullet is armor-piercing.

(Federal Nyclad ammunition is often mistaken as armor-piercing ammunition too, due to the blue-black nylon coating on the lead bullet.)

The black Lubalox coating on the Black Talon bullet is meant to reduce in-bore friction and chamber pressure. Once the bullet leaves the muzzle, the mission of the coating is completed. Lubalox does not give the bullet any special property that allows it to blast through police soft body armor.


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## Wetlandhunter (Jun 7, 2005)

deputy said:


> LMAO yah more bright information from the local commando
> 
> ammo is put through a series of test on armor/and other materials before it is ever released
> 
> over the past few years i have heard so much junk for students who say that in my ccw class told us this or that i have a several pages of info to make sure my students get real info not bs.


That is what goes around I believe.I was just reading some new articles on them they said they were baned because medical people were getting cut real bad during sugary.What is your take on the .357sig?


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## Wetlandhunter (Jun 7, 2005)

deputy said:


> Black Talon was an armor-piercing "cop-killer" bullet. We've fired both 9mm and .40 S&W Black Talon bullets into threat level IIA soft body armor and the armor easily stopped the bullets.
> 
> This is why I think a lot of departments are going to the .357sig.So if thugs are wearing vest they can stop them.


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## deputy (Feb 2, 2002)

the 357 sig will not go through body armor either!


in the case of armor you fall back to your training no matter what if your first 3 rapidly placed Com while your moving don twork you follows up with a brain box shot not head but brain box! (CNS) central nervous system

to shut them down..... its called an failure to stop drill there are two variations of htis in training the original mozamique drill(sp) whichis 2 com and a folow up sight picture to a brain box shot

the faliure to stop drillis are more speedy with 2-3 rounds com with an instant shot to the head or know as a enhanced failure drill (as i teach it)

most bad guys have been seen with flak jackets, old gun show armor. as wel as documneted cases of yellow pages phone books taped to there chest or in backpacks worn on the front. even steel belted tire s that have been cut and layered have been used....

the 357 sig is a nice round good round better than no gun.... ammo is not cheap for practice and in often in limited supply in some areas to become good and ready you need to train and train often and a lot of ammo must be spent..... ther eis a bit more noise flip and flash to the 357 sig but not bad at all!....

I run 9mm with winchester ranger 127 +p+ loading..... very accurate easy to control with support and or strong hand only shooting rapid accurate shots while moving rapidly off the line of the attack

no matter what you get get good with it! and get better then you were before!


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