# Selling a rifle



## ramitupurs84 (Nov 9, 2008)

Can you sell a firearm to someone who lives with a felon but who is not on parole. My understanding was they were busted on a concealed weapons deal when they were 18, now there around 40 with no issues since. I was going to make them sign a note saying I am selling it to them. The person I am selling it to is not a felon, their spouse is.

Thanks!


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## bigcountrysg (Oct 9, 2006)

That is a tricky position, if it was me I would not do the sale. You can not garuntee the person that is not suppose to have the firearm won't have access. 

Yes the sale to the non-criminal is legal. How ever if it was me I would decline the sale.


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## outdoor_m_i_k_e (Feb 3, 2005)

I would simply write up something saying that you are selling said firearm, serial number XXXXXXXX to buyer(name) and buyer(name) is not prohibited from legally owning or possessing a firearm. then both of you sign it with a 3rd person signing as a witness. . 

There should be no issues then. . Unless the person tells you they are buying it for their spouse etc. .I would have no problem making the sale


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## ramitupurs84 (Nov 9, 2008)

Well I don't think she even intends on keeping it. It's part of a barter for a truck she owns, titled in her name. Her husband doesn't hunt or anything, since they're married it's a us descision. So she said I'll ask if he knows anything about them. Then she told me about his status. Now her brother in-law might be the guy she ends up selling it to he likes the old mausers. She said I get the rifle if she ends up make the barter. I had asked if she was able to have firearms with him being a felon. She said why not, I'm not.


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## malainse (Sep 2, 2002)

No law against selling it to the wife. As you said she does not even plan on keeping the gun. Plus is not purchasing it for hubby. I would not put " is not prohibited from legally owning or possessing a firearm." unless you were aware of this 100%. You could put , "To my knowledge......" but, why ? Just sell her the gun and put a description on the bill of sale.....


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

malainse said:


> No law against selling it to the wife. As you said she does not even plan on keeping the gun. Plus is not purchasing it for hubby. I would not put " is not prohibited from legally owning or possessing a firearm." unless you were aware of this 100%. You could put , "To my knowledge......" but, why ? Just sell her the gun and put a description on the bill of sale.....


 If you find it necessary then get a bill of sale from the person that you are selling to. Nothing else is necessary. Keep things simple.


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## duckhunter382 (Feb 13, 2005)

if you are that worried take the person to a dealer, I imagine if they can process an out of state sale they might be able to do the proper check for an in state sale,


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## foxriver6 (Oct 23, 2007)

ramitupurs84 said:


> Can you sell a firearm to someone who lives with a felon but who is not on parole. My understanding was they were busted on a concealed weapons deal when they were 18, now there around 40 with no issues since. I was going to make them sign a note saying I am selling it to them. The person I am selling it to is not a felon, their spouse is.
> 
> Thanks!


So long as the felon does not have possession of the firearm, there are no issues. Michigan terms of parole do not allow for a parolee to be in the same home as a firearm but after the felon completes the terms of parole, there are no restrictions about firearms being in the same house as a felon so long as the felon is not in possession of them.

I guess the tricky part of the felon in possession law is determining when a felon is in possession of the firearm. It is not a black and white issue. What if the firearm is in the night stand next to where they are sleeping? What if the firearm is in a locked gun safe that they cannot access? As far as I am concerned, the concept of felon in possession of a firearm is no different than possession of prescription drugs. If your wife has a script for valium and the valium is in the medicine cabinet, does that mean that you the husband are in possession of the valium without a perscription because you have "access" to it? 

One final thought about felon in possession. Under federal law, a felon can never be in possession of ammunition or a firearm. Under Michigan law, most felons automatically can possess firearms after 3 years. Other felons whose crimes involved violence or drugs can possess firearms after 5 years if they receive permission from the county gun board.


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## blahblah (Oct 8, 2008)

Just researched this recently, felony conviction only forbids possession for a lifetime in regards to concealed pistol license. For regular long guns their rights automatically restored after 3 or 5 years (depending on the type of felony) after they have met all criteria of serving their sentence, finishing any parole or probation and paying fines in full. Here is the law section where it is stated:

*750.224f Possession of firearm by person convicted of felony; circumstances; penalty; applicability of section to expunged or set aside conviction; felony and specified felony defined.* 

Sec. 224f.
(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person convicted of a felony shall not possess, use, transport, sell, purchase, carry, ship, receive, or distribute a firearm in this state until the expiration of 3 years after all of the following circumstances exist:
(a) The person has paid all fines imposed for the violation.
(b) The person has served all terms of imprisonment imposed for the violation.
(c) The person has successfully completed all conditions of probation or parole imposed for the violation.
(2) A person convicted of a specified felony shall not possess, use, transport, sell, purchase, carry, ship, receive, or distribute a firearm in this state until all of the following circumstances exist:
(a) The expiration of 5 years after all of the following circumstances exist:
(i) The person has paid all fines imposed for the violation.
(ii) The person has served all terms of imprisonment imposed for the violation.
(iii) The person has successfully completed all conditions of probation or parole imposed for the violation.


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## foxriver6 (Oct 23, 2007)

blahblah said:


> Just researched this recently, felony conviction only forbids possession for a lifetime in regards to concealed pistol license. For regular long guns their rights automatically restored after 3 or 5 years (depending on the type of felony) after they have met all criteria of serving their sentence, finishing any parole or probation and paying fines in full. Here is the law section where it is stated:
> 
> *750.224f Possession of firearm by person convicted of felony; circumstances; penalty; applicability of section to expunged or set aside conviction; felony and specified felony defined.*
> 
> ...


 
And just below (iii) you forgot to include this:
(b) The person's right to possess, use, transport, sell, purchase, carry, ship, receive, or distribute a firearm has been restored pursuant to section 4 of Act No. 372 of the Public Acts of 1927, being section 28.424 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.


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