# Deer Rifle



## Forever444 (Feb 17, 2011)

I am going to go out on a limb here and say what I truly believe is the perfect deer rifle. Although I truly love my 444 I will be perfectly honest and say it isn't needed. But, what I will say is that the perfect deer rifle is probably between .243",. 257", and .264/6.5mm, shoots an 85 to 120 grain bullet that is adequately constructed between 3000 and 3200fps, and chambered in a moderate weight rifle. I am not saying this is the best all-around rifle, but is truly a "deer rifle" that will effectively take game up to 300 pounds out to 350 yards or so. 

Please feel free to post your opinion


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

I like the .243, own one and hunt with it but I would not say it's the perfect deer caliber. Good for youth but not ideal.

I have rifles in .250 Savage, .260 Remington, .270 Win and 7mm/08, I'd say any of those are ideal deer rifle calibers, leaning towards the shorter action cartridges. If I had to pick one, it would probably be the .260 Remington although the 7-08 would run a very close second. 

I've got model 7's in each of those two calibers and they are both just about the perfect Michigan Whitetail rifle.


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## boone nc (Dec 10, 2005)

I have always wanted a 2506 to shoot deer with but havent got one yet. I have killed deer with a 243, 270, 3006, 300 and a 22-250. I think I have a to choose just one for just deer, it would be the 270. 

The 243 IMHO is to small, though it does the trick there is way less room for error. I was not happy with the way my 243 worked on the deer. Most deer I have shot or seen shot with a 270 drop or dont go far. I have no real experience with the 25 calibers but I here good things about them.

Just my opinion.


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## giver108 (Nov 24, 2004)

Everyone should know that the best deer rifle is the .270 Win.


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## jmoser (Sep 11, 2002)

I'll say the .308 is close to perfect, a bit more than needed most of the time but will do it all at any realistic hunting range.

7mm-08 or .260 may be the sweet spot for range and power on 99% of most whitetail hunts.

.243 is wonderful as well but you have to have the right bullet.


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## Get Out (Dec 29, 2010)

No such thing as a perfect deer rifle for all situations! In my very humble opinion If you hunt the thick cover you will need something to punch through the junk. Brush might toss a light weight fast mover like the 243. I usually go with the 30.06 with 180grains. However if we are driving deer at camp I will bring out the Model 94 in .32 spcl. Or the 12ga. Out west I would bring the .06 with a lighter bullet. There are several very good cal. the above mentioned will kill deer very dead. Also .308, .270, .300 savage, .35 Whelen, .260, 30-30, Lots of great ones out there. Just pic one... or two.. or three.:lol:


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

I have several rifles that I've used over the past couple of decades and each one has its place depending on the situation. The two I grab most often are this:

My Remington 700 BDL in 7MM Mag for open farm country just because it is a tad bit heavier and I seem to shoot the best with it, probably because of its overall mass and heavy barrel. The farm I hunt with it isn't going to require much more than a half mile walk and then I'm in a blind or a treestand so the extra weight and long barrel isn't a factor for mobility. Other advantage is most of the deer shoot with this gun just drop. I don't have to worry about the deer going 100 yards and possibly getting onto the neighbors land. 

My other favorite is my Remington 700 Mountain Rifle in .260 Remigton with a compact Leopold 2 X 7 scope. 20" lightweight barrel and the whole rig only weighs 7.25 pounds. This is the one I grab when I'm hunting in the UP or northern lower and I'm going to be doing a lot of walking/tracking. Barrel doesn't snag on branches when on my shoulder and the cartridge is pretty potent on whitetail sized game. Not quite as accurate with it as my 7 Mag, but I still feel pretty good with my chances out to 300 yards or so. I personaly don't buy into the "brush buster cartridges" because if you are shooting through brush, ANY bullet is going to deflect. I would rather have a nice accurate cartridge and a good scope and find a hole to shoot through with it.


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## Get Out (Dec 29, 2010)

jatc said:


> I personaly don't buy into the "brush buster cartridges" because if you are shooting through brush, ANY bullet is going to deflect. I would rather have a nice accurate cartridge and a good scope and find a hole to shoot through with it.


Good point but you usually don't get that option on a deer drive.


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## DaGuy (Jan 13, 2011)

Get Out said:


> No such thing as a perfect deer rifle for all situations! In my very humble opinion If you hunt the thick cover you will need something to punch through the junk. Brush might toss a light weight fast mover like the 243. I usually go with the 30.06 with 180grains. However if we are driving deer at camp I will bring out the Model 94 in .32 spcl. Or the 12ga. Out west I would bring the .06 with a lighter bullet. There are several very good cal. the above mentioned will kill deer very dead. Also .308, .270, .300 savage, .35 Whelen, .260, 30-30, Lots of great ones out there. Just pic one... or two.. or three.:lol:


Amen! 
To quote Dirty Harry, "A man's got to know his limitations." Or maybe a better quote for me would be, "stupid is as stupid does", Forrest Gump. I think that the .270 is as close to the perfect all around deer rifle as it gets but others are so close the difference is negligible. I have killed deer with a .358 Win and had them run with no heart or lungs. I have killed deer with a 7mm Weatherby and had them drop in their tracks. 30.06 kills, both drop and run. The more I see the more I realize that if I don't do my part I can't make it up with caliber. I've also used .243, 30.30, .308, 35 Rem, 8mm, 300 Win mag, 44 mag, 45.70 and 12ga. Get Out is right, it is just plain enjoyable.:lol:


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

I'd vote for a Rem Mod 7 in either 7mm-08 or .308. Short, compact fast handling rifle with enough barrel length for these two cartridges. Topped with a low powered variable like the VXIII 1.75-6x32mm and you'd be all set. I could substitute in the .260 and be just as happy.


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

Get Out said:


> Good point but you usually don't get that option on a deer drive.


Hope you didn't take anything personnaly out of that cause I wasn't trying to bash your statement at all. I just hear guys say all the time, especially in the cedar swamp/regrown clearcut areas I like to hunt, that they can shoot right through the poplar regrowth at deer with their .30/30's because the bullets will "blow right through that stuff and get to the deer". I've seen enough misses and poor hits to make me feel this isn't always the case. Now, a foster style 12 gauge slug might be a different story. Seeing as I've never deer hunted with a shotgun in my life, I can't speculate either way on that. I have never hunted on a deer drive before either, so I don't have any experience shooting at spooked deer in the brush. Closest I get to that would be tracking a buck with a doe in the swamps, but if I'm careful I don't have to take a shot at a deer that's running in the thick stuff. Usually I can catch them trotting and find a hole or else I wait for a better opportunity.


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## coldog22 (Sep 14, 2010)

the best would be a lever action 30-30 merlin. quick to load and unload, very accurate with a scope, deadly when within 50 yards. the 30-30 is the all time rifle with the most kills on deer.


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## DaGuy (Jan 13, 2011)

jatc said:


> 20" lightweight barrel and the whole rig only weighs 7.25 pounds. This is the one I grab when I'm hunting in the UP or northern lower and I'm going to be doing a lot of walking/tracking. Barrel doesn't snag on branches when on my shoulder and the cartridge is pretty potent on whitetail sized game.


What type of hunting and rifle weight is a huge and valid point. When I was young nothing seemed to matter. Now, everything matters. The interesting thing about hunting is the enjoyment factor opposed to the productivity results. After all few of us are sustenance hunters out of necessity. I'de rather hunt with the limitations of a 30.30 if that rifle was what I enjoyed than any Ultra-Mag death ray.

I once met an old hunter in the woods who looked like he had been hunting in Michigan since before the turn of the previous century. This gentleman was clad top to bottom in well worn Buffalo plaid wool, wool socks to the top of his calf and (non-insulated) leather mid-calf boots. He carried an old, old Winchester lever in 32 Win Special and smoked a pipe. I have never met a man who was more at peace in the woods than this fine gentleman. This is my image of the perfect deer rifle.


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## AllForTheGreen (Apr 26, 2011)

coldog22 said:


> the best would be a lever action 30-30 merlin. quick to load and unload, very accurate with a scope, deadly when within 50 yards. the 30-30 is the all time rifle with the most kills on deer.


Deadly within 50 yards? So is a boomerang, rock, or a baseball lol


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## wartfroggy (Jan 25, 2007)

AllForTheGreen said:


> Deadly within 50 yards? So is a boomerang, rock, or a baseball lol


 That may be true, but only the 30-30 merlin will give through and through shots.


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## Forever444 (Feb 17, 2011)

I'm going to say that no bullet deflects any more or less than another, this is from personal experience, my dad shot a beautiful buck about 7 or 8 years ago with a "brush busting" 180 grain round nose in a 30/06. You know what happened? He hit a sapling that wasn't 1/4" across. Know where the bullet went? Away from the buck! The deer was only standing about 5 feet behind it too so there wasn't much space for the bullet to deflect and miss, but the point is; it did! But what I'm really trying to say is that you don't need a powerful recoiling rifle, there are more advantages to lesser recoiling ones. Why use something that is capable of having extra room for error on something larger than a deer when you are just hunting deer?! No sense in it to me. By the way, the 25/06 is so close to the performance of the 270, and the 243 is really really close to the performance(based on numbers) to the 25/06. So as I'm rambling on, I will say that all you need for deer is short action, non-magnum class cartridge between .243 winchester and 270 winchester. 7mm's are kind of a wonderful waste to me..


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## HTC (Oct 6, 2005)

wartfroggy said:


> That may be true, but only the 30-30 merlin will give through and through shots.


That may be true, but the boomerrang will bring the deer back to you.


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## coldog22 (Sep 14, 2010)

HTC said:


> That may be true, but the boomerrang will bring the deer back to you.


we are not fred flinstone. here is a site to prove what i said earlier

www.buckhuntersblog.com/winchester-30-30-americas-*deer*-cartridge


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## Get Out (Dec 29, 2010)

jatc said:


> Hope you didn't take anything personnaly out of that cause I wasn't trying to bash your statement at all. .


 Haha no worries I am not sure I could get offeneded by something written on the internet! Everyone has thier own opinion and personal experience to back it up. No blood no foul... have a good one!


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## inland44 (Dec 1, 2008)

I think there is a bit of a difference between "perfect cal. and perfect rifle". That being said caliber wise, deer are taken every year with any thing from .223Rem up to .450marlin and then some. Some would be said to be light others "too much gun". My go to is .30cal but Im beginging to come around to the .257 dia. the bob and other 6mm types are flat shooting and heavy enough to get the job done humainly given reasonable shot placement. Alot of guys tout the .260rem others the .257Roberts and the .250Savage all have taken many many deer here in MI. I think the 7mms and the .30cals are more popular in general but not the only option. In regard to the larger so called brush busting calibers in the .30 to say .50 cal range, I would say this. From what Ive tried myself and what Ive seen, if the brush is within a few feet of the target I have no worries. If the brush is several yards from the target I PERSONALLY would let it pass no matter what I was shooting.

As for rifles, action type would be up to the indivdual. I personally like the bolt, my dad will hunt with nothing but a lever, a friend is dead set on a Remington pump. Its been many years but another fellow hunter belived mentally that the Ruger #1 was the ultimate. In general I belive the optimum set up would be a barrel length between 18" and 22" and weight between 5 and 7 pounds. As for glass, what ever you want as long as its quality. No one will agree on the perfect rifle or caliber but there is a good range that Im sure most would agree with.


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## brock_gingery86 (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm going to take a chance and post absolute truth here. 

If you remember my posts from a while back, you know I am a fan of the Tripple 4 as well. It is a wonderfully unique and versitile cartridge. Here is where things get tricky.

There is a very positive chance that there is no perfect whitetail rifle for michigan. Conisdering that about a third of the state is Shotgun country, the other two thirds consist of everything from swamps with a visibility of anything from 20 yards to 15 feet at most. Crop Fields with open expanses to test the average marksman, and just about everything else in between. 

Now, When my uncle was a young man growing up around Clare and farwell, His favored rifle was a Ruger 44 Carbine. One of the Originals with the tube magazine. He favored that because he hunted swamps and bogs a lot, but it was useful to just over 100 yards how he had it set up. IT put deer down hard, which was needed because of all the muck and slime. You can lose a deer if you aren't careful. 

Now, This was the perfect rifle for that situation and locality. Would it work for a farmer sitting over his fields, no. HE would want something flatter shooting. 

When it comes to brush, no bullet/slug no matter how big or how fast and aerodynamic it is will resist being deflected. Trusting in one of those myths will end in a miss at best, and a wounded lost animal at worst. 

There are a lot of good deer rifle/caliber combinations out there, and when it comes to michigan, a Remington pump or auto carbine in 308(With a slightly reduced load around 2500fps with a 180gr bullet) may be an ideal compromise. Perhaps if a bolt action is a must, the Ruger Frontier rifle in 338Federal, or the 358Win would be the best choice for most hunters who want to tackle any situation. Everything is Compromise. Me, I'll stick with my 444 and 350 Rem Mag.


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## JD252438 (Feb 3, 2010)

I would have to say that the winchester model 94 30-30 is probably the best deer rifle up close (under 150 yards). And a 270. for anything further than that.


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## 8iowa (Jan 28, 2008)

For hunting whitetails in Michigan, and a lot of other places as well, a short fast handling rifle is more important than cartridge considerations. That is to say there are a lot of cartridges/calibers that will do the job nicely. The deer is not likely to notice the difference between most of them.

I really like my Browning BLRs. I like to mount them with compact 2x7 scopes. This is a great rifle for carrying and hunting in a small blind. My favorite cartridge is the 358 Win. For those who don't load ammo the 308 Win would be a good choice.

I've even used the BLR in Colorado on elk hunts. I didn't have a chance to score with the BLR, but I never felt "underguned".


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## MFPS (Jun 21, 2009)

.308 is my weapon of choice. Harvested Deer, Elk, Caribou, Antelope, Moose and Bear
loads from 130 gr. to 220grains.


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## CarnageProductions13 (Mar 11, 2011)

Savage 270. 130 grain. My baby


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## Rustyaxecamp (Mar 1, 2005)

Perfect rifle is like the perfect women.....No such thing.

Each has a fault if you look hard enough. Some are a heck of lot easier to point out than others..

I've taken deer with a pile of different calibers from 204 to 35 whelen and everything in between. Lately I've been hung on the good old 30-06.


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## brock_gingery86 (Mar 15, 2011)

Rustyaxecamp said:


> Perfect rifle is like the perfect women.....No such thing.
> 
> Each has a fault if you look hard enough. Some are a heck of lot easier to point out than others..
> 
> I've taken deer with a pile of different calibers from 204 to 35 whelen and everything in between. Lately I've been hung on the good old 30-06.


Yep Rusty, you are absolutely correct on that. The 350 is as close as it gets for me. I can load it down if needed, or up to performance similar to a 338 Winchester if I feel the Situation calls for it. But Handloading Helps because you are not limited in that way like you are with Factory ammo.

I notice a lot of people talking about carbines on here. Here is a little Tip. A rifle does not need to have a 16 inch barrel, or be able to shoot 20 rounds in 20 seconds to be a good deep woods deer rifle. As long as it tucks close to your body when you are threading through a swamp, balances well, and comes to your shoulder naturaly presenting your sight picture, it should do well. You only need one shot to kill a deer if you make it a good one, and if you are a decent hunter still hunting/stalking should be a practiced skill. 

For me, Both my mail rifles have 22 inch barrels, the 350 with a 2.5X scope, and the 444S has a williams receiver sight. Each comes up smoothly, and I am looking forward to taking a deer with the 350. The 444 has always been for me a one shot kill weapon, standing still, or running.


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## anon12192013aazz (Dec 10, 2010)

If there is a better cartridge for deer, at ranges of 10 feet to 400 yards, than the 270 Winchester, I am simply not acquainted with it. Before the bashing begins, let me say that I've fired a lot of different guns, in a wide range of cartridges, with many of them very close to perfect for hunting deer. While there are dozens of cartridges that are nearly as good, I have dozens of answers for why I feel the 270 Winchester is just a teeny bit better. Others will not agree, and I respect that, but I've spent the last 30 years hunting, shooting and studying the relative merits of probably 100 cartridges, standard and wildcat. There just isn't anything else with the perfect blend offered by the 270.

This is all just my opinion, of course.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

.308


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## brock_gingery86 (Mar 15, 2011)

broom_jm said:


> If there is a better cartridge for deer, at ranges of 10 feet to 400 yards, than the 270 Winchester, I am simply not acquainted with it.


Well, Jack O'Connor, who we all know as the greatest proponent of the 270 and competitor to his contemporary Elmer Keith, felt there was something better to be had. His own ideas came about from testing a variety of cartridges fired in brush, but that would also be able to reach out a ways. What he concluded was that the 348 winchester was superior for general use from close up but with trajectory sufficient for longer shots, but had to much recoil for the average hunter. His views were that it surpassed the 270 even.

He then formulated a Cartridge idea to fit what he felt was the best general purpose cartridge for deer in heavy bush and open small fields. What he proposed was necking up the 7x57 case to .338 diameter, and firing the old 200gr flatpoints from winchester between 2400 and 2500 feet per second. Very similar to the 348's performance. 

You made a great post by the way, and this next part is also just my opinion. I have a feeling that this discussion will continue for many years to come, probably after all of us have passed on. People are individualistic creatures, nothing will ever change that, and we will always have favorites or opinions based on our own experiences and preferences.


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## anon12192013aazz (Dec 10, 2010)

brock_gingery86 said:


> Well, Jack O'Connor, who we all know as the greatest proponent of the 270 and competitor to his contemporary Elmer Keith, felt there was something better to be had. His own ideas came about from testing a variety of cartridges fired in brush, but that would also be able to reach out a ways. What he concluded was that the 348 winchester was superior for general use from close up but with trajectory sufficient for longer shots, but had to much recoil for the average hunter. His views were that it surpassed the 270 even.
> 
> He then formulated a Cartridge idea to fit what he felt was the best general purpose cartridge for deer in heavy bush and open small fields. What he proposed was necking up the 7x57 case to .338 diameter, and firing the old 200gr flatpoints from winchester between 2400 and 2500 feet per second. Very similar to the 348's performance.
> 
> You made a great post by the way, and this next part is also just my opinion. I have a feeling that this discussion will continue for many years to come, probably after all of us have passed on. People are individualistic creatures, nothing will ever change that, and we will always have favorites or opinions based on our own experiences and preferences.


I wish I had seem this post sooner because you make some great points. 

The round O'Connor proposed, and the 338 O'Connor that Chuck Hawks played around with, has finally been legitimized with the 338 Marlin Express. It has the right blend of energy, bullet weight and recoil, although it uses a pretty obscure parent case and until recently could not be replicated with available powders.

Fortunately, it is very easy to handload the 338 Federal down to the numbers Jack had recommended and now that it's a factory chambering, it will be easy to buy a gun in 338 Federal, or have one built. Brass will always be simple to find or make and it is arguably one of the best all-around cartridges on the market today. I still prefer my 270 but the truth is there are dozens of great rounds out there that are plenty of gun for a deer. In the final analysis, the "best" gun is the one you shoot very well. :chillin:


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## Mr. 16 gauge (Jan 26, 2000)

Best for me (to date) is my sporterized surplus Swedish M96 mauser in 6.5 x55 Swede, shooting a 129 grain Hornady spire point handload at about 2550 fps, topped with a 2x7 Leupold variable scope. Using this rig, I've taken 2 whitetails, two mule deer, two antelope, and a wild hog at ranges from 50 yards to (a measured) 300 yards. The gun is accurate and recoil is mild. All were one shot kills with the exception of one of the mule deer. The gun is also quite accurate with 100 grain Sierra HPs, so I can also use it as a varmint rig as well.

.....all this being said, there will still be times when you will find me in the woods armed with one of the following instead of the Swede: Marlin 336 in .35 Remington, M1A1 in .308, Interarms Mk X in .30-06, Winchester M94 in .30/30, Remington model 1100 & 870 in 12 gauge, Ithaca M37 in 16 gauge, .54 cal St. Louis Hawken, 62 cal flintlock trade musket, and S&W M29 in .44 magnum. 

Life (and hunting) would be boring without choices!


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## anon12192013aazz (Dec 10, 2010)

Mr. 16 gauge said:


> Best for me (to date) is my sporterized surplus Swedish M96 mauser in 6.5 x55 Swede, shooting a 129 grain Hornady spire point handload at about 2550 fps, topped with a 2x7 Leupold variable scope. Using this rig, I've taken 2 whitetails, two mule deer, two antelope, and a wild hog at ranges from 50 yards to (a measured) 300 yards. The gun is accurate and recoil is mild. All were one shot kills with the exception of one of the mule deer. The gun is also quite accurate with 100 grain Sierra HPs, so I can also use it as a varmint rig as well.
> 
> Life (and hunting) would be boring without choices!


I couldn't agree with you more about owning a variety of guns to hunt with! 

My question is, why are you holding the 129gr spire point down to such a low velocity? Most guys speed the smaller bullets up to around 2850fps and the 160 grain bullets to around 2550.


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## Mr. 16 gauge (Jan 26, 2000)

> My question is, why are you holding the 129gr spire point down to such a low velocity?


Accuracy...and the deer don't know the velocity when it hits 'em anyway.
.....and actually, that load is just a grain or two below max, if memory serves me correctly.

One of the things I've found with velocities is that the published manuals are *VERY* generous when it comes to assigning fps.....some are because of special test barrels, ect. However, I have one load for my .30/30 that the manual says should be running around 1970 fps, give or take. Run it over a chrony, and said load is actually running around 1750 fps (both are out of 20'' barrels, so that's not the culprit in this case). The load still kills deer cleanly.

Another thing I find interesting is that the manuals, over the years are achieving the same velocity with smaller amounts of powder. Case in point: started reloading for the .35 Remington a few years ago and consulted my current Speer manual. Max load listed for a particular powder/bullet combination was 31 grains of powder. Speer manual from back in the 1970s had same load listed, but max load was 35 grains of same powder for same bullet, and velocities listed were pretty close to the same. Has the same powder somehow become more 'efficient' over the years? Nah, I doubt it.......I think it has more to do with litigation and lawyers than anything else.

.....and I'll give you a heads up: Those superduper shotgun slugs that they claim are going 1600+ fps? lets just say that there's a WHOLE lot of inflation on those numbers.:lol:
Yup, buying a chrony was a real eye opener.:yikes:


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## anon12192013aazz (Dec 10, 2010)

Mr. 16 gauge said:


> Accuracy...and the deer don't know the velocity when it hits 'em anyway.
> .....and actually, that load is just a grain or two below max, if memory serves me correctly.
> 
> One of the things I've found with velocities is that the published manuals are *VERY* generous when it comes to assigning fps.....some are because of special test barrels, ect. However, I have one load for my .30/30 that the manual says should be running around 1970 fps, give or take. Run it over a chrony, and said load is actually running around 1750 fps (both are out of 20'' barrels, so that's not the culprit in this case). The load still kills deer cleanly.
> ...


That is true about the chronograph...I've been surprised more than a time or two, and it hasn't always been from loads being slower than they should have been. When you get one that is 150fps FASTER than the book, it's kind of a scary feeling, because you have to wonder how it got that way. When shooting a shotgun slug over a chrony, be sure it isn't your sabot that is getting measured for velocity. You might need to set up further from the unit to get an accurate reading. 

One great thing about 6.5 bullets is the excellent sectional density they have for any given weight, making them very good killers of game, even at lower velocities.


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## hoebekec (Jul 8, 2009)

broom_jm said:


> I wish I had seem this post sooner because you make some great points.
> 
> The round O'Connor proposed, and the 338 O'Connor that Chuck Hawks played around with, has finally been legitimized with the 338 Marlin Express. It has the right blend of energy, bullet weight and recoil, although it uses a pretty obscure parent case and until recently could not be replicated with available powders.
> 
> Fortunately, it is very easy to handload the 338 Federal down to the numbers Jack had recommended and now that it's a factory chambering, it will be easy to buy a gun in 338 Federal, or have one built. Brass will always be simple to find or make and it is arguably one of the best all-around cartridges on the market today. I still prefer my 270 but the truth is there are dozens of great rounds out there that are plenty of gun for a deer. In the final analysis, the "best" gun is the one you shoot very well. :chillin:


The fairly new 338 ME has quickly become one of my favorite cartridges. Especially coming out of a fast and easy handling Marlin lever action, its nearly the perfect blend of for everything the MI deer hunter could need. You can reach out and touch em on long range shots and is well suited for brush as well.


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## jimmyo17 (Jun 7, 2011)

my favorite is the 300wsm deer dont run and they dont kick like people say and i dont think its overpoweered i can shoot real long distances and still have power hunted a swamp last opener and didnt have a problem with the brush when i took my shots its my favorite


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