# No bait No deer



## Chessieman

Sam, you will make out GREAT on it, you might need to get the leaf blower out though. Read about the current post about Rye, you will learn a lot.
P.S, It is about $14 investment and one bag of fertilizer which will last a couple years, good luck.


----------



## DecoySlayer

I hunted 1 full day, and parts of 3 other days this season. Saw 16 over that time. No bait, got 1 shot with the crossbow, 1 with the rifle, killed both. Again, no bait.

The number one primary rule to success in deer hunting is to hunt where there are deer.


----------



## sureshot006

shaffe48b said:


> With 20-30 acres wouldn't someone cut it for free or even pay you? Leave part of it open with a mower and it'll be full of forbes in the summer and if the rest grows up into maple and birch it'll be full of browse for the winter.
> 
> Minimal cost; minimal effort.


Not sure. Something to be investigated


----------



## ART

fix the problem- either allow baiting or ban food plots.


----------



## jiggin is livin

ART said:


> fix the problem- either allow baiting or ban food plots.


Couldn't agree more, but it is kinda hard to ban agriculture. Unless you ban hunting a food source, which will NEVER happen with the AG lobbies. And as much as I hate no being a fair playing field, it shouldn't be illegal.

The only solution is take away the "bait ban" it is senseless anyway. 

But, as stated over and over again, the DNR doesn't care, they answer to the dollar and that is it. Special interests have a lot of dollars in the DNR's ear.


----------



## William H Bonney

Plant some apple trees.


----------



## Chessieman

ART said:


> fix the problem- either allow baiting or ban food plots.


How about loose your licenses for a year if caught baiting deer? It is quite a unfair advantage to use bait while your neighbor follows the law.


----------



## Waif

I wouldn't object if established (not newly created for the sole purpose of seeding) stateland trails could be seeded with either winter rye or winter wheat by hunters and only broadcasting seed was allowed, no soil deliberately disturbed..
Where successful in enough volume , deer would have browse at night.
And better yet , in spring they would have forage early on for a while.

Of course , poaching and vehicle collisions would likely follow.


----------



## Hammer62

Hunt the oaks


----------



## Waif

Hammer62 said:


> Hunt the oaks


Been years since there was an acorn crop near me.


----------



## sureshot006

Waif said:


> Been years since there was an acorn crop near me.


Probably been centuries since there was an oak growing where I hunt!


----------



## sureshot006

William H Bonney said:


> Plant some apple trees.


If he's got time to wait for them to grow its a good idea.


----------



## 22 Chuck

EJSams said:


> I have 30 acres in Bay county bordering Gladwin county. I have spent about 50 hours in several stands around my property. I have seen 2 deer. One of them is a tiny doe I have seen almost every day. I used to use a 50 gallon drum to disburse corn We would see deer all the time. I took a doe in muzzleloader season last year and a doe late crossbow the year before. ( neither of them directly by the feeder). I love to hunt but I can't get anyone else to go with me to stare at empty woods for hours on end. I feel lucky at my age (66) to be able to climb into tree stands, etc. But I can't see myself working up a food plot. Does corn disbursed by a spreader present that much of a health threat to deer? Just the frustrated musings of an old timer.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


You probably need to get out more. Everyone knows there are so many deer that DNR deemed it necessary to allow any/every one to shoot "if its brown its down".
Get out more and you will see all those deer and help the DNR manage them.


----------



## Martin Looker

I don't bait and most days I see a bunch of deer. My compliant is that none of them have horns. I do have a good one that I see every few days but he is always in a hurry and crosses the lanes before I can get a shot.


----------



## perchjerker

Actually a food plot isn't that hard to do. I only have 5 acres maybe 3 huntable.
I made a tiny 8000sq ft food plot started it 3 years ago. It brings in deer made all the difference in the world. I don't have any fancy equipment. My sxs and a ground hog max disc are what I use plus a length of chain link fence to work the seed in. Then I pack it down with the sxs tires. I would love to get a cultipacker one day


----------



## GDLUCK

EJSams said:


> Roaming is something I did 15 years ago. At nearly 67 I am not a roamer. I have constructed an elevated box blind. Numerous tree stands. I practically live in my camper up here during deer season. My dad and I bought this 30 almost 40 years ago. I appreciate your advice though.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


I understand your situation. It's tough. I bet when you bought the property you didn't HAVE to have bait piles to see deer. But now its going on 40 years later. that woodlot has aged just like you. Young forest= deer, old forest doesnt, with the exception being acorns.

There is a reason there were few deer before the logging boom and many after.


----------



## YAKFish#1

A decade ago I hunted state land in the Lewiston/Atlanta area...there was a lot of timbering and the occasional new gas/oil well put in...every season following those activities the deer would swarm the new fresh grass growth...I’m talking 5-10 deer at a time...three years ago my brother in law had a company come in and timber decent portions of his oaks opening up the canopy...he stopped in at a local nursery and grabbed numerous local deer forage seeds (grass/clover etc) and tossed it all around the new open ground...the deer did the same thing...no bait and the deer loved the fresh growth...every spring he drags a ball diamond drag rake across the areas and the new growth comes back again and the deer still come...if you can take some trees down...the guys that did his paid for the timber and he made a nice pocket of money...either way, open up the canopy, let the natural forage grow, spread local forage seed or simply drag the area and let nature take its course...it becomes a natural food source with little effort...stop in at a local nursery and see what they recommend...good luck, you won’t be disappointed with little effort...even if you let locals come in and grab the dropped trees...and, the beach nut bushes and saplings came back with a vengeance and created a new cover area...I can’t wait to see what kind of bedding or transition area it becomes...no one hunts that area and the property is only 15 acres butted up to federal property.


----------



## FullQuiver

William H Bonney said:


> Plant some apple trees.





sureshot006 said:


> If he's got time to wait for them to grow its a good idea.


The best time to plant trees is 5 years ago. Not really, the best time is now..

Remember the old greek truth. "A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shadow they shall never sit.". This seems to be something that couldn't be more appropriate for any situation than you are facing now...


----------



## hmrx

Baiting ban is ok if the playing field is level. Landowners are still baiting heavily because its readily for sale at feed stores and gas stations. It's not fair to guys who follow the law and don't bait. Pretty hard to compete on small private holdings with piles of sugar beets and carrots. If the dnr can't enforce or won't enforce their own rules. Let's go back to limited baiting. Not everyone can put in a food plot. Shouldn't have to if the no baiting rules were enforced. Let's level the field. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Martin Looker

What you want is not going to happen. I have either corn or beans across the road every year so all I have to do is set up on a runway crossing the road even if I am hundred yards away. That's a 200 acre food plot.


----------



## Buddwiser

Chessieman said:


> How about loose your licenses for a year if caught baiting deer? It is quite a unfair advantage to use bait while your neighbor follows the law.


:lol: While you hunt your bait plot?


----------



## DecoySlayer

I am not so sure about apple trees. The spot that I hunted for two sits this year had several old apple trees along a ditch line. There were apples all over the ground in different stages of rot from fresh and hard to mush. Few showed signs of being eaten. 

The corn had been picked, rather badly, and there was a lot on the ground, including full ears. That showed more signs of being used as a food source. I did not see a deer in that field for either sit. The year prior I saw 20 or so in a couple of days.

The "big" field, with little cover around it, showed far more sign of being used and I saw 15 in that field on opening morning. 3 were taken off that field on the opener.


----------



## GIDEON

shaffe48b said:


> A shameless amount of people are still baiting amd doing it openly which probably contributes to those that don't not seeing as much. Especially to what extent the piles are less numerous that probably just means that the deer patterns are altered even more than they were.
> 
> If we were smart we'd report the violaters but no one is going to do that.
> 
> Ps: yet another reason id clear cut. When those deer hit those baits usually after dark they'll head back to your property anyways to bed.


I do, I have and I will continue to report them. As often as it takes to have someone act on the complaint.


----------



## Ieatshrooms

ART said:


> lot of qdmrs around? their baiting draws lots of deer..


I am a QDMer and have never planted a food plot or used bait once in my life. I see a common theme that those that fail at hunting like to blame everything on QDMer's. Much easier than addressing the actual problem, which is themselves.


----------



## Martin Looker

The 2 plots that I have are just openings that I mow three or four times a year. They are just grass. I am sitting here thinking that maybe I should disk up some of my shooting lanes and throw in some wheat next fall. I just have to find a tractor and a disk.


----------



## DecoySlayer

Maybe pay someone to do that for a season or two to see if it does any good before you layout the cash?


----------



## Martin Looker

Good idea. Thank you


----------



## perchjerker

Martin Looker said:


> The 2 plots that I have are just openings that I mow three or four times a year. They are just grass. I am sitting here thinking that maybe I should disk up some of my shooting lanes and throw in some wheat next fall. I just have to find a tractor and a disk.


Do you have an ATV or access to one?

Depending on where you are I would let you borrow my Groundhog Max see if you like it


----------



## shaffe48b

GIDEON said:


> I do, I have and I will continue to report them. As often as it takes to have someone act on the complaint.


Ah it's like shooting coyotes. It may feel like you are making progress on the problem but you're really not.

I still think the best idea is to have a good bedding area in the midst of private land. Which might even be on public. Everyone goes in there and feeds the deer for you and stinks up the area so they only hit the bait after dark. Then they slip into their bedding area at daylight. You say as elvis did, 'thank you, thank you very much.'


----------



## William H Bonney

DecoySlayer said:


> I am not so sure about apple trees. The spot that I hunted for two sits this year had several old apple trees along a ditch line. There were apples all over the ground in different stages of rot from fresh and hard to mush. Few showed signs of being eaten.


This happened to me. 

My conclusion was that there was a better/safer food source near by, or they just flat out didn't like these apples for some reason.


----------



## Martin Looker

A friend of mine has about 8 apple trees in his yard and the deer keep all of the wind falls cleaned up except for one tree and those lay there and rot. We never have figured out what kind they are but they are really hard. They might be a winter apple that ripens in storage.


----------



## Waif

Ieatshrooms said:


> I am a QDMer and have never planted a food plot or used bait once in my life. I see a common theme that those that fail at hunting like to blame everything on QDMer's. Much easier than addressing the actual problem, which is themselves.


Sometimes , some QDMer's can be found around half decent deer hunting.
Often resulting from part of their actions , in addition to their locations/chosen sites.

Some folks are not QDM official members that parallel some of the principles anyways. 
By plagiaristic intent , or simply by natural logic after studying deer and habitat enough to get some idea of what constitutes possible potential improvement in general health.

I Would join if not for a couple certain buttheads I refuse to be associated with , due to antlers over everything else in recruitment attitudes.
But I really want me one of those QDM deer vacuum sucker upper thingies to start pulling deer from the surrounding areas onto my property.....


----------



## Martin Looker

They tell me it's not about antlers but about a healthy deer herd. When I got out the Navy we had too many deer but then they started giving out kill permits to several neighbors. No more extra deer. All those extra deer were healthy until they died of lead poisoning.


----------



## LTH

We try to do things "right" on our land that I purchased three years ago. No bait, putting in small food plots, had a heavy select cut done in September. Last year we seen ZERO deer in rifle season. This year we have seen a few does and small bucks. Trying to stick with the neighbors and the 4 point one side rule. 

My question is, why do we see bucks and does of all age classes during October but around the 1st of November the deer population seems to dwindle? I have cameras and scout for tracks, have a pretty good idea what moves across our 90 and its much much less come November. Not to mention the time of day they move swings to the nocturnal side of the game. 

I'm not bitching, and my questions are hypothetical. I know the neighbors are baiting as I've seen it. I also watch them walk and drive the fence lines at prime time because they know no better. I'm doing what I can short of selling and starting over. The food plots will quadruple in size next spring and the cover is only going to thicken as the years go. Oh, and if I ever get the opportunity to lease the 70 next to me and push those fence walking baiters out I will most certainly jump on it.


----------



## Martin Looker

I lucked out. My neighbor has a small tractor and disk l can use to dig up these lanes. Now I can make seven mini plots.


----------



## DecoySlayer

Martin Looker said:


> I lucked out. My neighbor has a small tractor and disk l can use to dig up these lanes. Now I can make seven mini plots.


You may want to try different "crops" or mixes, in each to see what works, what does not, or what the deer like. Try some forage radish, in part of one, if the soil conditions, sun exposure, etc. will support them.


----------



## Trophy Specialist

EJSams said:


> I have 30 acres in Bay county bordering Gladwin county. I have spent about 50 hours in several stands around my property. I have seen 2 deer. One of them is a tiny doe I have seen almost every day. I used to use a 50 gallon drum to disburse corn We would see deer all the time. I took a doe in muzzleloader season last year and a doe late crossbow the year before. ( neither of them directly by the feeder). I love to hunt but I can't get anyone else to go with me to stare at empty woods for hours on end. I feel lucky at my age (66) to be able to climb into tree stands, etc. But I can't see myself working up a food plot. Does corn disbursed by a spreader present that much of a health threat to deer? Just the frustrated musings of an old timer.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Likely your neighbors are baiting now and are enjoying great hunting. If they ever ban baiting in my hunting area I know my neighbors will keep baiting and likely a lot more than now. Then I'd have to make a decision, either put out bait or give up, sell my place likely at a loss, and hunt another state.


----------



## Martin Looker

I liked it when you could bait because they would haul in lots of bait that I couldn't afford but being in the middle with a long 40 they would wander back and forth between the two right past our blinds.


----------



## perchjerker

before I did anything I would spend $15 on a soil test. Glad I did


----------



## ART

Waif said:


> I Would join if not for a couple certain buttheads I refuse to be associated with , due to antlers over everything else in recruitment attitudes.


This....
I know several, and had run ins with several....from what I've seen, they are pretty much a bunch of egocentric, arrogant and generally unlikable people.


----------



## Waif

ART said:


> This....
> I know several, and had run ins with several....from what I've seen, they are pretty much a bunch of egocentric, arrogant and generally unlikable people.


Which conflicts with the great folks involved , and the info they share.
Happens in other organizations too.

It is what it is ...
Co-ops make sense. If only for the networking.
And deer health awareness is always good.
When deer are running optimally healthy , and habitat is not declining from too many , I've little to say to a landowner trying to be justifiable about their target selections or desires.
As ever with me since owning a hunt site , if it's contentious about my choices , it ends at my borders.

Healthy balance first is not a bad goal..
Then hunter desires can follow in cherry picking.
Balance is not a one time (year) swipe at a solution though.

Many years of high pressured (participated in by many hunters) public land hunting has made controlling hunter density on a hunt site (with some deer in the area) my main goal.
It works.
But those public land days are not forgotten. Especially the lack of control over the herd , or it's hunters.

IF what I do (or anyone does) is duplicatable by everyone else as far as the playing field and hunter density on it , then it can be fairly promoted.
If everyone does not want to participate and cooperate though , or duplication is not realistic , it's pushing a rope.
Not a wetted and then frozen rope either....
I'm not looking for a rope to push. Or for you to push.


----------



## QDMAMAN

Martin Looker said:


> I don't bait and most days I see a bunch of deer. My compliant is that none of them have horns. I do have a good one that I see every few days but he is always in a hurry and crosses the lanes before I can get a shot.


Change your handle to _Martin Shooter_ and get back with us!


----------



## Martin Looker

Can't be shooten what you ain't seein


----------



## QDMAMAN

I would HIGHLY recommend anyone that is serious about creating better habitat and hunting, to get on Youtube and follow Jeff Sturgis with Wildlife Habitat Solutions. TONS of content for free!


----------



## QDMAMAN

Martin Looker said:


> Can't be shooten what you ain't seein


Hmmm, my comment was based on your post I quoted. Sorry if I mis read that the deer you're "seeing" aren't real! :lol:


----------



## QDMAMAN

ART said:


> lot of qdmrs around? their baiting draws lots of deer..



Can you pm me your address? I have a Christmas card for you! Thanks!


----------



## Martin Looker

I'm seeing deer but I don't like to shoot does. The buck I have seen doesn't give me a decent shot. The only shot I had was at his hams and I let him walk. So my deer are real and tomorrow it starts again.


----------



## Spartan88

perchjerker said:


> Do you have an ATV or access to one?
> 
> Depending on where you are I would let you borrow my Groundhog Max see if you like it


I'm buying one early next year, it will be perfect on my future food plot sites.


----------



## Steve

EJSams said:


> Thanks. I downloaded an article about planting rye in three stages. So you always have new growth.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Yeap, the layered approach.


----------



## Steve

QDMAMAN said:


> I would HIGHLY recommend anyone that is serious about creating better habitat and hunting, to get on Youtube and follow Jeff Sturgis with Wildlife Habitat Solutions. TONS of content for free!


Amen. Even if everything doesn't apply, there is always one tidbit that does.


----------



## Setter

Trophy Specialist said:


> Likely your neighbors are baiting now and are enjoying great hunting. If they ever ban baiting in my hunting area I know my neighbors will keep baiting and likely a lot more than now. Then I'd have to make a decision, either put out bait or give up, sell my place likely at a loss, and hunt another state.


We are surrounded with baiters, they have shot nice bucks this year and have no qualms about continuing to bait in our QDM co-op. With bait sales at local gas stations still going strong and laws that are being ignored it is not a level playing field for those who do not bait.


----------



## hmrx

On my way through Cadillac yesterday there was a line up of half a dozen or more pickups getting front end loader scoops of carrots and beets from the market . The piles were still 6 ft high. Somebody is doing alot of baiting. No level playing field here.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Martin Looker

They are buying horse feed or at least that is what they said in the previous post. I'm setting here in my blind and I have deer wandering all around me even on the down wind side.


----------



## no1huntmaster

The Ban on baiting may or may not be needed, but in the end all it has done is screw over the the folks that do not own land. I know for sure most folks on private land are still baiting.
The only way to really enforce this with out screwing over one group of folks is to up the fines and ban the sail of the bait other then at feed stores. Its just too convenient to grab a bag or two right now.
As far as shooing deer with out bait...anyone that been at it for more then an hour knows that hunting on a farm or decent private land you do not need bait.
I hunted state land and saw one deer in day light hours in 14 sits. There are lots of them on the cameras. Too many folks watching Tv shows when it comes to real hunting.
When it comes down to not needing any strategy and just airing your self out in the woods and basing it all on luck, lot of folks will get out of it the future no doubt. 
At 57 I am finding the folks I hunted with loosing interest fast.
The way the DNR will fix this is an all inclusive seasons and air bows all that crap.
With the covid this year and folks home, they did sell more licensees this year so thats good.


----------



## Big Skip

Have to hunt where deer are. Baitpiles in alot of places with heavy pressure (most state land) make deer primarily nocturnal. 

Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk


----------



## Big Skip

Someone mentioned ALL of our bordering states have a better herd. I dont know for sure but most of these states you are allowed 1 buck only. Cant help but feel that has something to do with it.

Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk


----------



## Martin Looker

When people start poking around in the woods just before rifle season tells them that season is starting. Those old doe remember last season.


----------



## Mole Hill

Seeing most of my deer in the back mowed field. Started clearing 2 years ago and mow it spread lime and a little fertilizer. It is out performing my food plots in shooting hours. Also I clear cut areas for logs, firewood, and wildlife. I will never get it all cut because the growth in a year exceeds my cutting needs. All can be done with equipment that most land owners have. The must have is gumption!


----------



## Trophy Specialist

Big Skip said:


> Someone mentioned ALL of our bordering states have a better herd. I dont know for sure but most of these states you are allowed 1 buck only. Cant help but feel that has something to do with it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk


Not true. Wisconsin allows two bucks per hunter, one with firearm and one archery, as does Illinois. In Wisconsin though you can kill even more bucks if you hunt with other hunters. Indiana and Ohio allow one buck during the regular seasons, but you can kill an additional buck in special hunts, so non of our neighboring states have a true, one buck limit.


----------



## snortwheeze

Trophy Specialist said:


> Not true. Wisconsin allows two bucks per hunter, one with firearm and one archery, as does Illinois. In Wisconsin though you can kill even more bucks if you hunt with other hunters. Indiana and Ohio allow one buck during the regular seasons, but you can kill an additional buck in special hunts, so non of our neighboring states have a true, one buck limit.


Yes. They all just don't have a 3 + month straight season...


----------



## Setter

Trophy Specialist said:


> I disagree. The DNR bas no problem looking stupid. They seem to strive for stupidity. LOL


Right along next to the NRC


----------



## TriggerDiscipline

ART said:


> some of you deep pocket landowners with lots of land, time and money can say that. Lots of ordinary folk here have not the time, land or desire to to waste their extra money in the quest for deer.


Get yourself a 9-5 or try your luck on lottery tickets.


----------



## Big Skip

ART said:


> some of you deep pocket landowners with lots of land, time and money can say that. Lots of ordinary folk here have not the time, land or desire to to waste their extra money in the quest for deer.


No deep pockets here. I hunt a lease at $800 a year that isnt as good as some state land. Jus saying cant keep doing the same things and expect different results 

Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk


----------



## Bucman

I'm an ordinary guy @ART! Pretty insulting to those of us who bust are butts to have good hunting. I don't have time to hunt where I don't see deer. Those who cant B!t(h about it. Take off the green envy glasses maybe you'll see more deer


----------



## ART

Bucman said:


> I'm an ordinary guy @ART! Pretty insulting to those of us who bust are butts to have good hunting. I don't have time to hunt where I don't see deer. Those who cant B!t(h about it. Take off the green envy glasses maybe you'll see more deer


Another qdm thing.....they always accuse people who don't agree with them that they are just jealous....textbook....


----------



## Luv2hunteup

Hunters luck is when preparation meets opportunity. No bait but in a food plot a week ago today on a lease I share with 5 other like minded hunters. It’s always possible to get out what you put in.


----------



## textox

Luv2hunteup said:


> Hunters luck is when preparation meets opportunity. No bait but in a food plot a week ago today on a lease I share with 5 other like minded hunters. It’s always possible to get out what you put in.
> 
> View attachment 616049


Nice truly mature buck!! And the harder you work at it the "luckier" you get....


----------



## ART

Luv2hunteup said:


> Hunters luck is when preparation meets opportunity. No bait but in a food plot a week ago today on a lease I share with 5 other like minded hunters. It’s always possible to get out what you put in.
> 
> View attachment 616049


explain to me how the comments and picture here doesn't scream lots of dollars and time....stuff a lot of people don't have excess of....hard for the guy that lives next door to compete with a deer farm next door...


----------



## Waif

ART said:


> explain to me how the comments and picture here doesn't scream lots of dollars and time....stuff a lot of people don't have excess of....hard for the guy that lives next door to compete with a deer farm next door...


All rich folks drink Budweiser. Especially rich ranch owners.

Budget wisely and you too might someday be able to buy a bottle.
Don't drink it though. Reuse it for deer pictures...

Meanwhile , many hunters have a successful season as guests on private , or on public land.

If you don't want to have to put any effort into hunting , you'll succeed in kind.

What's the name of the deer farm next to where you hunt?
And why should they not farm? Because you and "a lot of people" don't?
Next you won't want anyone to put any time money or effort into non-farm hunting too. Just so they're like ...You. (?) Good luck with that.


----------



## Luv2hunteup

Art.

Life is about choices. Choose wisely. I prioritized what you love to do. I’m a retiree on fixed income who’s income was based on decisions I made decades ago. I chose wisely to fund what brings me joy then plus in the future. In the end what’s left will be just given away so I might as well spend it on me instead of funding my heirs lifestyle. As for time I still choose to do things that bring me joy since there are only so many sunrises left. 

A vast majority of my career was spent in Levi’s and Redwing work boots. My Mother is still alive so what little is left won’t impact my life style one bit as I’m not a trust fund baby. Good luck with all your decisions, choose what brings you joy and don’t worry about what decisions others make if they don’t impact your happiness. Envy is one of the sins you were taught about as a child, don’t follow that path.


----------



## FullQuiver

Luv2hunteup said:


> Art.
> 
> Life is about choices. Choose wisely. I prioritized what you love to do. I’m a retiree on fixed income who’s income was based on decisions I made decades ago. I chose wisely to fund what brings me joy then plus in the future.


Life can certainly be more complicated than that my friend.. Sometimes choices have nothing to do with ones financial position in life.. You can make good decisions and bad things can change your life in ways that are out of your control.. Trust me I know first hand.. I'm not the only one who can vouch for that...


----------



## Bucman

#WALLETWATCHERS


----------



## ART

you have all assumed that I am complaining of not seeing deer, or have no success at hunting or killing some very nice bucks....both very wrong.
This is addressing the inequity of the food plot vs baiting laws that favor the people that have lots of time and money to spend on a sport.
You can say that "we" just need to spend more time and money to achieve your goals, but many don't have that...and you are looking down on them from your very high horse...


----------



## Martin Looker

If the guy next door worked hard to improve his hunting he could also be hunting deer like that.


----------



## Luv2hunteup

There is only one person to blame for someone not having enough of either. Somewhere along the line bad decisions were made or simply someone does not prioritize deer hunting. If you think bait makes a big difference just hunt where baiting is allowed, it’s just that simple. There are about 6 million acres of land open to public hunting where baiting is allowed in Michigan. All the deer in my area spend way more time on public land than private plus there are less hunters per square mile. Some just do not seem to equate effort with success in hunting or life for that matter. Nobody ever promised that there would be an easy button, if they did everyone would use it and there would still be inequities and complainers.


----------



## Waif

ART said:


> you have all assumed that I am complaining of not seeing deer, or have no success at hunting or killing some very nice bucks....both very wrong.
> This is addressing the inequity of the food plot vs baiting laws that favor the people that have lots of time and money to spend on a sport.
> You can say that "we" just need to spend more time and money to achieve your goals, but many don't have that...and you are looking down on them from your very high horse...


Ahh , if you could bait at five bucks a bag all would be equal then...
But what about the plot owners land cost? Taxes , equipment, seed , lime ,fertilizer, time ,effort , money? Not fair if you can just dump bait is it? L.o.l..

My earliest , (or at least an early opinion) on bait was that each user should have to contribute a fraction of the bulk they use during season through a surcharge on each bag for post season distribution as supplemental feed.
That would counter C.W.D. concerns today though. The same concerns used to ban baiting.
But is there supplemental feeding going on anywhere in the state?
Or winter habitat browse work? 

That's not an opinion about hunter bait vs plot vantage. But one of , let's not condition deer to find food where food disappears from after season because it no longer benefits the hunters interests.

Ever see a weaning fawn feed on bait? Bed in bait? It's lactating mother deriving optimum nutrition from bait? 
Me neither.
I have seen fawns and more creatures utilize better habitat than what it was after growing ag crops for a long time.
Ironically browse is about all it lacks in optimum potential.
Not from many deer. But from no ag close.
Unless a small plot or areas maintained for browse count.
But last visits deer didn't seem attracted.
Guess I better set some traps and get a fence up.
Or just blame some one somewhere else for farming deer that are more favored....
If I could bait though , I'll bet that deer would have been right on it...

Then there's them damn fancy boat folks and shore owners out there on the lake with all their money going faster than my little four horse.
They should not be allowed to spend more than me. Or be more successful , if they are.
Just because I don't want to buy on a lake , or buy a bigger boat. Cause I don't have money or time for that.
But those guys catch too many fish because they can put time and money into what they want to do and then they do. Not everybody can. Not everybody does things like that. It's not equal but it should be so I don't like it.
Some lakes are even private and that's not right. Not everyone wants to put time and money into being on a lake and actually paying for the privilege. So it's not equal , and they shouldn't be allowed to.

My neighbors have a better view of the sunset than I do.
It's not equal! I'm not going to spend time or money to change my view. Not every one can or wants to you know. But it's not right they have a better view.


----------



## Waif

ART said:


> you have all assumed that I am complaining of not seeing deer, or have no success at hunting or killing some very nice bucks....both very wrong.
> This is addressing the inequity of the food plot vs baiting laws that favor the people that have lots of time and money to spend on a sport.
> You can say that "we" just need to spend more time and money to achieve your goals, but many don't have that...and you are looking down on them from your very high horse...


Back in the day I recall bait piles on public land I could not have afforded , if I had wanted to.
Maybe just the favor of that advantage is enough reason to keep baiting banned. Just so no one has an advantage due to spending and time committed.
Do you agree?

I backed off about a quarter mile and killed deer headed to one site that likely didn't arrive there till after dark.
And guess where they often were in their travels at first light?
My vantage came from time studying the deer.
Not whining about who hunted their feeding site , or manipulated it. 
Did I hunt a plot or bait? Not directly.

Plot or no plot.
Deer I kill today follow terrain and geography.
That's how they find my site.
Browsing is slightly enhanced , with plenty of browse elsewhere.
After dark they head to distant nightly destinations usually. (If they're around prior).

No neighbors complaining I'm ranching. 
At least not yet.
A couple have been surprised to put deer on the wall as their hunting was concentrated at more traditional distant sites. But they'll get over it.


----------



## Trophy Specialist

Some on here need to look beyond their own situations for once and perhaps ease off the selfishness.


----------



## no1huntmaster

hmrx said:


> Baiting ban is ok if the playing field is level. Landowners are still baiting heavily because its readily for sale at feed stores and gas stations. It's not fair to guys who follow the law and don't bait. Pretty hard to compete on small private holdings with piles of sugar beets and carrots. If the dnr can't enforce or won't enforce their own rules. Let's go back to limited baiting. Not everyone can put in a food plot. Shouldn't have to if the no baiting rules were enforced. Let's level the field.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


The best post in all this mess that I have read.
We have planted all kinds of food plots over the years. Other then the new 1 1/2 year old deer, The deer are not dumb, they only hit these at late hours usually after darks by a few hours.
With bait still out in other areas the deer have the ability to feed anywhere they want.


----------



## textox

no1huntmaster said:


> The best post in all this mess that I have read.
> We have planted all kinds of food plots over the years. Other then the new 1 1/2 year old deer, The deer are not dumb, they only hit these at late hours usually after darks by a few hours.
> With bait still out in other areas the deer have the ability to feed anywhere they want.


Deer will feed any where they feel secure and not pressured,even if it is lesser quality food.That would rule out food plots and bait, they are NOT the the only factor in where and when deer feed and many times a lesser atraction than most believe they are.My .02 cents...


----------



## Biggbear

ART said:


> some of you deep pocket landowners with lots of land, time and money can say that. Lots of ordinary folk here have not the time, land or desire to to waste their extra money in the quest for deer.


As Luv2 said life is about choices. Not sure why the trash talk about those that have chosen to become landowners. Envy? Jealousy?

I hunted public land for many, many years. And after encountering many of the same horror stories posted on here I decided early on I wanted my own place to hunt.

As for "extra money"? I started saving when I was a single Dad, even if it was $25/month. I went to college while raising 2 daughters and working full time so I could get a better job, that better job let me save more as well as helped my kids. Not sure where this concept of money laying around come from, I never tripped over any in my house. Being a single parent and paying for school doesn't leave alot of "extra cash".

When I finally bought property it wasn't hundreds of acres in a county where land is huge dollars. I bought where alot of it is cedar swamp, and through hours of breaking my back I put in trails, food plots(where they will grow), and planted fruit trees. None of it is easy, or cheap. So it's done a little at a time. Maybe only 3 or 4 apple trees a year, but it all adds up.

Anyone, and I mean anyone can do what I did. You just have to be willing to work at it. All you have to do is change your perspective from hating on landowners to wanting to be one. "Get off your duff" as my Grandma used to say, and follow your dream.

Oh yea, I'm not a member of qdm either.


----------



## Martin Looker




----------



## ART

Biggbear said:


> As Luv2 said life is about choices. Not sure why the trash talk about those that have chosen to become landowners. Envy? Jealousy?


Answer me this...why do qdmr's use the word jealousy so much....
This isn't about people owning land- this is about not being able to bait.
Title of the thread is no bait no deer....not "lets trash landowners"


----------



## Biggbear

ART said:


> Answer me this...why do qdmr's use the word jealousy so much....
> This isn't about people owning land- this is about not being able to bait.
> Title of the thread is no bait no deer....not "lets trash landowners"


No clue why qdmer's do what they do, I'm not a qdmer

If this is about your ability to legally bait, why did you go after landowners?

Like I said, it's all about perspective.


----------



## Luv2hunteup

ART said:


> Answer me this...why do qdmr's use the word jealousy so much....
> This isn't about people owning land- this is about not being able to bait.
> Title of the thread is no bait no deer....not "lets trash landowners"


The are almost 6 million acres of public land open to hunting in zone 1 where you can legally bait. Hunting pressure is less on this land than on private land. What’s not to like?


----------



## ART

Luv2hunteup said:


> The are almost 6 million acres of public land open to hunting in zone 1 where you can legally bait. Hunting pressure is less on this land than on private land. What’s not to like?


the 9 hour drive.


----------



## ART

Biggbear said:


> No clue why qdmer's do what they do, I'm not a qdmer
> 
> If this is about your ability to legally bait, why did you go after landowners?
> 
> Like I said, it's all about perspective.


There is an inequity...nobody can bait down here...landowners get around that with the food plot loophole- nobody can put a food plot on public land.
Plain and simple, food plots are baiting.


----------



## Biggbear

ART said:


> There is an inequity...nobody can bait down here...landowners get around that with the food plot loophole- nobody can put a food plot on public land.
> Plain and simple, food plots are baiting.


You have options. Hunt the U.P. where it's legal, or become a landowner where you can put in the food plots that you despise. Anything less is just whining, and whining changes nothing. Get off your duff.


----------



## Luv2hunteup

ART said:


> the 9 hour drive.


About 5 hours shorter than my drive Friday just to pick up my processed meat from Ohio. I left just before 7:00am and was home just prior to 9:00pm. Mostly dry roads so it was a piece of cake. Look on the bright side you don’t have to have it processed to bring your deer home from the UP plus chances are extremely low of it having CWD which is another big plus. 

You still have not come up with a reason that is preventing you from baiting where it’s allowed.


----------



## ART

Biggbear said:


> You have options. Hunt the U.P. where it's legal, or become a landowner where you can put in the food plots that you despise. Anything less is just whining, and whining changes nothing. Get off your duff.


you dont get it....some people just don't have that option.....why not fix the problem and get rid of the loophole....
Like I said, a pretty tall high horse...


----------



## Luv2hunteup

ART said:


> There is an inequity...nobody can bait down here...landowners get around that with the food plot loophole- nobody can put a food plot on public land.
> Plain and simple, food plots are baiting.


Food plots are considered an agricultural activity by those that make and enforce the laws. There is nothing stopping you from submitting a deer habitat grant application on land open to public hunting. Here are a couple of links but this is only a portion of what is available. 

Some projects that have been funded
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/WHGPPreviouslyAwarded_Projects2014-2018_656600_7.pdf

Grants where deer baiting is allowed.
https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-350-79134_81684_81685_81747---,00.html


----------



## Biggbear

ART said:


> you dont get it....some people just don't have that option.....why not fix the problem and get rid of the loophole....
> Like I said, a pretty tall high horse...


Then work to change the loophole if that's the way you see it. Like I said, whining changes nothing.


----------



## ART

Sheesh...You all just don't get it.....talking about lots of people who just have maybe 10 acres to hunt that they don't own, have no real way to improve it. It's close to home, no interest in spending lots of time or money just to enjoy a few days of hunting.
I have a rock outside....going out to have a more meaningful conversation....


----------



## Lucky Dog

ART said:


> explain to me how the comments and picture here doesn't scream lots of dollars and time....stuff a lot of people don't have excess of....hard for the guy that lives next door to compete with a deer farm next door...


This comment sums up a lot of what is wrong with hunting today in my opinion.

Just my opinion, but if you think hunting is a competition, maybe you should re think you choice to be a hunter.

If you concern yourself with what your neighbor has or does legally on their own property, maybe it is time for some self reflection.

In general, the hunting culture seems to be that we need to compare ourselves with others, their success means our own failure. Lack of success by any measure, for any reason, needs to be blamed on anything but oneself.

It's sad to me what hunting has turned into.


----------



## Chessieman

ART said:


> There is an inequity...nobody can bait down here...landowners get around that with the food plot loophole- nobody can put a food plot on public land.
> Plain and simple, food plots are baiting.


Do you call it baiting on the 10 1/2 months the deer are not being hunted or protected by the illegal baiters at my place? Your above post says they do not do any improvement on ten acres due to cost and work. That is just being lazy, maybe riding that lawn tractor to clear-cut that ten acres is more fun, to each his own. If your rock answers you back, does it mean your rock is stoned?


----------



## Biggbear

ART said:


> Sheesh...You all just don't get it.....talking about lots of people who just have maybe 10 acres to hunt that they don't own, have no real way to improve it. It's close to home, no interest in spending lots of time or money just to enjoy a few days of hunting.
> I have a rock outside....going out to have a more meaningful conversation....


Finally we are in 100% agreement. There is no point in continuing this conversation. You don't want to do a single thing to change where you are. You don't want to own land, you don't want to hunt where baiting is legal, you don't even want to do anything to legalize baiting in your area. You just want to whine and have someone feel sorry for you. I'm out, whine on.


----------



## Chessieman

Lucky Dog said:


> This comment sums up a lot of what is wrong with hunting today in my opinion.
> 
> Just my opinion, but if you think hunting is a competition, maybe you should re think you choice to be a hunter.
> 
> If you concern yourself with what your neighbor has or does legally on their own property, maybe it is time for some self reflection.
> 
> In general, the hunting culture seems to be that we need to compare ourselves with others, their success means our own failure. Lack of success by any measure, for any reason, needs to be blamed on anything but oneself.
> 
> It's sad to me what hunting has turned into.


I have a new neighbor down a couple places from me that has put in food plots. He puts in all different stuff I do and the *DEER THIS YEAR LOOK HEATHIER*. No little ones knee high at my place this year. I figure it is the additional vitamins. It is to bad that that the deer only hit his place at night due to my bedding areas. I guess the way some people sees it those thick areas should be thinned out so I do not have a advantage. :banghead3


----------



## Luv2hunteup

Chessieman said:


> Do you call it baiting on the 10 1/2 months the deer are not being hunted or protected by the illegal baiters at my place? Your above post says they do not do any improvement on ten acres due to cost and work. That is just being lazy, maybe riding that lawn tractor to clear-cut that ten acres is more fun, to each his own. If your rock answers you back, does it mean your rock is stoned?


I really would not call that lazy. I’ll call it a choice. When someone chooses not put any effort, time or money into hunting they pretty well can’t expect to receive much more than that out. Just like your garden, put nothing in and you’ll receive nothing out. I can understand how that leads to disappointment but blaming others for ones poor choices accomplishes nothing. Nothing in = nothing out.


----------



## ART

Chessieman said:


> Your above post says they do not do any improvement on ten acres due to cost and work. That is just being lazy, maybe riding that lawn tractor to clear-cut that ten acres is more fun, to each his own. If your rock answers you back, does it mean your rock is stoned?


they...can't.....because.....they......don't......own......the....land.....they.....hunt......on....all they...are...asking...is...to....be...on..a...more....level...playing...field...,,,


----------



## Martin Looker

I have no idea where you are or where you hunt , but up here north of Midland there are good plots on the public land.


----------

