# Catch & Release



## Michigander1 (Apr 5, 2006)

I for 1 do not return any steelhead that is legal on the Huron.And i could care less what others do with the fish they caught.I payed the price for the ticket to the show.To me thats end of story.But what i do care about is other leaving there trash on the shore.Which ends up in the water.Mich


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## Jimbos (Nov 21, 2000)

"A real fisherman also doesn't have to know he's a "real fisherman" by having to say it on an internet forum."


My god Stelmon, very well put, your a smart young man....Sincerely.

I've been trying to ignore that comment all day, and I figured it would be best if I said nothing. You've put it much better then I ever could.


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## MDNRFD (Nov 18, 2008)

I don't know what load of crap you guys are sniffing from but I am not the one making the hoot about keeping fish and I clearly state that I keep the ones I catch over favoring C and R as you stated. Learn to read. I said WE ( The real fisherman) meaning we the guys that read this board and actually know how to catch steelhead and know what the Huron is there for as jsut a little smart *** comment. FishnDude I beg you to please go back and read this whole post and then tell me if you care to take the same bull attitude that you have shown me. And FishnDude everyone knows that you have to release Salmon you snag anyways. 

If you read what I wrote I think you are refering to light lines not me. I'll expect an apology in my PM box : HAHAHAHHAHA


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## Michigander1 (Apr 5, 2006)

Fishndude said:


> That is funny. I have fished for Salmon and Steelhead for over 35 years, and I am sure I have released more than you have caught, MDNRFD. Just because you favor C&R doesn't make you any more real a fisherman than someone who keeps fish for the table; especially in a put-and-take fishery, like the Huron. But if it makes you feel good to think that, well I guess that is your prerogative. Just don't expect longtime fishermen to give you too many pointers with that kind of attitude. I know I won't, again. :lol::lol:


 Why are you picking on him for his point of view ?35 yrs of fishing dont mean crap anyways DUDE.Mich


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## Queequeg (Aug 10, 2007)

I've always wondered about this very topic. I fish the Huron a handful of times and rarely see a lot of fish (even though there are usually a lot of people fishing). The fish that I do see caught are kept. I can honestly say that I've never seen a fish returned to the water (regardless of size. I once saw a skip thrown on shore that may have yielded a morsel of meat). This river is NOT a river with a big run of steelhead and frankly it never will be with the number of anglers keeping fish. This river is, at BEST, struggling. I would not be against special regs on that river, at least until their is a bit more viable population of steel on this river. 

I know most of you will say that there are plenty of fish in this river, and for SE Michigan, you're right. But because it is one of two rivers in SE Mi with steel and the fishing pressure in this river is well out of proportion to number of fish. I think if more C and R were done on this river it would be a much more productive fishery. 

The DNR does stock this river, and anglers do pay a fishing license for those stocked fish, but just because the fish are stocked doesn't mean we have to take everyone of them out. Those of us out there complaining about the price of a fishing license better be putting those stocked fish back, because that license price WILL go up as stocking continues (especially with the state budget crisis). This is just economical logic. We can't keep every fish we stock and pay the same rate we are currently paying for our license. Which issue are we willing to cave on, C and R or license fees?


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## pipthefisher (Nov 16, 2008)

i will take a fish here and there..but i will eat it. but mostly i will release it. especially a steel

i usually concentrate on killing defenseless bald eagles.


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## Michigander1 (Apr 5, 2006)

Queequeg said:


> I've always wondered about this very topic. I fish the Huron a handful of times and rarely see a lot of fish (even though there are usually a lot of people fishing). The fish that I do see caught are kept. I can honestly say that I've never seen a fish returned to the water (regardless of size. I once saw a skip thrown on shore that may have yielded a morsel of meat). This river is NOT a river with a big run of steelhead and frankly it never will be with the number of anglers keeping fish. This river is, at BEST, struggling. I would not be against special regs on that river, at least until their is a bit more viable population of steel on this river.
> 
> I know most of you will say that there are plenty of fish in this river, and for SE Michigan, you're right. But because it is one of two rivers in SE Mi with steel and the fishing pressure in this river is well out of proportion to number of fish. I think if more C and R were done on this river it would be a much more productive fishery.
> 
> The DNR does stock this river, and anglers do pay a fishing license for those stocked fish, but just because the fish are stocked doesn't mean we have to take everyone of them out. Those of us out there complaining about the price of a fishing license better be putting those stocked fish back, because that license price WILL go up as stocking continues (especially with the state budget crisis). This is just economical logic. We can't keep every fish we stock and pay the same rate we are currently paying for our license. Which issue are we willing to cave on, C and R or license fees?


 Thing is.After they plant them steel skips.There are folks that keep them.Thats what really hurts the river. Not so much keeping them on the run up.And the planting goes on during the walleye run on top of that..Alot of factors goes on from what i see.Its not the guys catching Steel in the fall run , BTW lets not forget when they SHOCK the river for number count Mich


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## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

Good sentiments Lightline, but any natural production in the Huron is just a fluke. If the DNR didnt plant steel head smolts in the Huron, The Saint Joe, the Grand, the Muskegon, the Big Manistee and others it wouldnt be worth your time to go fish for steel head because your chances of catching one would be slim to none.

To me a steel head or trout or bluegill is a fish and I dont respect them, but I do have respect for the fishermen and women who fish. Because I have respect I would never be so presumptuous to think I knew if they were keeping fish to show off or to prove something. I wouldnt make rhetorical statements questioning why they need to keep all those fish.

You know this web-site is just like your path of glory. I love to see people post pictures of their fish. I am happy to see that they had good luck and to hear about their good fortune. I know you can look at it both ways. I have had people tell me they dont have to post pictures to prove they are the man. When you assume you know what peoples motives are it is more of a reflection of you than it is them.

People like to share their good luck and even if it makes them feel good when someone says nice fish or nice pictures or good story it makes everyone feel good.

I have said many times almost all the steel head you catch in Michigan are wild fish even if they spend a few months in a hatchery. They are not raised in a hatchery generation after generation because all of the Little Manistee strain steel head planted come from wild steel head. You cant tell the difference in the way they fight, the way they look or even the way they smell. Putting a premium on wild steel head is just silly.

Depending on the study 70 to 90% of the steel head never make it back after they spawn once and if they do, they are usually smaller than they were when they spawned the first time.

The DNR sets limits to protect the fishery and as long as people stay within the legal limits it is arrogant to criticize them for doing it. I live on the Little Manistee and I have no problem with anyone keeping three fish because nature always produces excess and if you follow the rules set up by the experts the fishery will remain strong.

When you say it is your right to keep them but is it right to keep them? It is a moral question meant to question the ethics of legal fishermen and women. That is the real world my friend. I know you want to do the right thing for the fishery that is clear. I am not a real fisherman, but I welcome you to this site and I hope I see many pictures of the fish you release and you share the story behind them.

Everyone knows or should know that if you dont plan to utilize the fish it is good conservation to return them. I mostly fish for wild fish and usually return some because I want to keep fishing. I would rather see someone share their fish than see them end up on the bottom of the river or lake as crab meat.

Consider the flies only stretch on the Au Sable river which is also no kill. Every one of those fish hatched 7 years ago are dead. Tens of thousands of them dead because some sports want to increase the odds so they can catch one. If they changed the rules and made it a catch and keep, tens of thousands of those fish would have ended up as table fare and the fishery would be intact and healthy. The rules are there to actinically inflate the numbers to make it easier to catch them. I call that playing with nature and I choose to participate.

I dont mind that you have a different point of view, thats fine but if you and the other real fishermen make statements like how it helps the fishery you should back up your assertions with some facts.

MDNRFD, youre a new guy yourself and I read your post to mean the same thing and you didnt mean the other guys who post on this board. Your words were pretty clear and while your at it dont be so defensive and no apology will be forth coming.


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## MDNRFD (Nov 18, 2008)

Well thats where the communication aspect of reading things online as opposed to talking to an actual person are confronted. What I said was a sly little sarcastic mark and if you read it again you will see that I meant the "Real" fisherman that read michigan sportsman, not some rant about I am the god of fishing or conservatism. 

That being said if lightline or whoever had time on the river it would be known to them that the numbers are up for steelies on the Huron and that fishing pressure is down. Say what you want but that is the truth. When you go fish Hu Roc and you see 30 guys down there and 25 of them have 5 foot light action rods with some big contraption on the end and given the occasional fly fisherman who wants to cast in between 2 drifters do you really think they are a threat to the whole fishery? How many times have you gone down when the white bass are in and not even in season and see guys down there with bucketloads? Are you the one that calls RAP? That has alot bigger impact then guys keeping there legal limit of steel. I'm not gonna ruin this thread by getting in an argument but just because I ask questions from time to time and pick peoples brain by no means makes me some noob if anything it makes my fishing time more productive. 

I have 11 fish since October and none of them made it back to the water. Because I eat them. I don't hunt.. why??? Cause I don't eat it.


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## Michigander1 (Apr 5, 2006)

Splitshot said:


> Good sentiments Lightline, but any natural production in the Huron is just a fluke. If the DNR didnt plant steel head smolts in the Huron, The Saint Joe, the Grand, the Muskegon, the Big Manistee and others it wouldnt be worth your time to go fish for steel head because your chances of catching one would be slim to none.
> 
> To me a steel head or trout or bluegill is a fish and I dont respect them, but I do have respect for the fishermen and women who fish. Because I have respect I would never be so presumptuous to think I knew if they were keeping fish to show off or to prove something. I wouldnt make rhetorical statements questioning why they need to keep all those fish.
> 
> ...


 Bud you was so close to a good post.Saying someone is a new guy and such? Why is there so much conflict on the Lower Huron ? Its kinda like i pissed here before you did.Boy i miss the good old days myself ,Mich


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## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

There would be no conflicts if fishermen respected other fishermen and not the fish and before you know it, these will be the good old days.

I've been steelhead longer than lightline and I can tell you fishing is better now than any time I can remember. The trick is taking the time to find unmolested fish. I don't fish the Huron but just from experience I know there is easy fishing if you take the time to find them.


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## Elk5012 (Mar 27, 2008)

Well you guys don't have to worry about me, I haven't caught one yet.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Splitshot said:


> There would be no conflicts if fishermen respected other fishermen and not the fish and before you know it, these will be the good old days.
> 
> I've been steelhead longer than lightline and I can tell you fishing is better now than any time I can remember. The trick is taking the time to find unmolested fish. I don't fish the Huron but just from experience I know there is easy fishing if you take the time to find them.


What harms the fishery more than hook & cook is the attention of the constant babbling about it. Finding unmolested fish like Ray states is difficult when the fish are constantly pressured

A fishery less than 1 hour from our highest population, limited amount of holes and lack of public land. Prime example: Thanksgiving day. 9 trailers at the top, probably another 5-6 at the bottom and only 5-6 productive holes in-between, lined with bankies. Never seen it like that in the past. 

Why not invite 10,000 of your closest friends? It will make Tippy look like Coroner's Convention

Some guys just don't get it. There's a finite amount of winter fish and they are removed daily. This is small water compared to the major rivers on the west side and the runs are marginal, depend on flows, conditions at the mouth along with wind and lake currents that allow the fish to sniff-out the Huron's signature in the lake. Many planets have to line up to get a decent amount of fish. 

Drawing any attention to the 20-30 fish runs seems kind of silly, don't it?


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## Lightline (Jan 11, 2009)

Okay guys I really don't have good communication skills and I guess I didn't come off quiite right. I don't care if people keep fish for food. It is their right and it is certainly legal. I believe I stated that I keep one now and then too. I also stated, in my original post, that natural reproduction on the Huron was bleak at best. Sorry for calling mysellf a "real fisherman" and blowing my own horn. I didn't say I could outfish anyone or do I consider myself better than anyone else. I just care about the fishery and would like to see it be all it can be. I care about the environment and would like to see it thrive. So, I'm whatever those things make me. Now, from what I understand, creel limits are a based on the what the law makers consultants decide that the fish population can withstand and still be viable. However, I believe that here in MI. it's a number based on the total number of fish and is just applied to all the rivers. If you go to Alaska, for instance, you'll find that limits may change from river to river, depnding on what that river can bear. I think that the Huron should have a lower limit because it doesn't have as many fish as our prime rivers. This is just my opion of course. You shouldn't just rely on the state to supply the fish and then maintain the population [IMO]. The state supplies the fish [with our money] and sets and enforces limits. It's really up to us, the fishermen, to take part in perserving and caring for the resource supplied by the state. We can do more [IMO] than just call RAP. My whole post, in the first place was kind of selfish. I want to catch more fish close to home and not have to go to Ohio to do it. That's about what it boils down to. I choose to release most of my fish and will continue to do so. If I can get others to release a few more, so much the better. If you do a search on C&R, you will find that it has never had a negative impact on any fishery. This whole thing about Hacthery Fish and Pristine Headwaters, etc. eludes me. I can't go running off to Alaska or some other exotic local every weekend, so I just want what we are faced with, in reality, to be as good as we can make it. Okay? Not trying to cause trouble, make people angry, come off like a know it all. None of that. Just want to see less fishless days on the Huron River. Some of you are saying that it's getting better. That's great, but I believe we could make it better yet. That's all I have to say. Wait, I think I said that before. Okay, this time, that's really all I have to say. God Bless and good luck.


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## MDNRFD (Nov 18, 2008)

Well Light,

As you see there are hard heads here and all I'm gonna say to sum up this post is that your heart is in the right place when it comes to being a true fisherman and thats all that matters.


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## Jimbos (Nov 21, 2000)

MDNRFD said:


> Well Light,
> 
> As you see there are hard heads here and all I'm gonna say to sum up this post is that your heart is in the right place when it comes to being a true fisherman and thats all that matters.



So your not a true fisherman unless you feel the same way?


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## MDNRFD (Nov 18, 2008)

Why is there always some jack in the box to come along and try to start some crap? Oh ya that was for you jimbo, if you spent more time listening to your heart and not trying to get a reaction you would understand that what I said and what I meant and what you have a very hard time understanding is that if your heart is in the right place to be aware of what is "Ours to protect" and your actions say the same then ya maybe you are a true fisherman. 

You can take the definition of a "True Fisherman" anyway you want to but to me thats what it's about. Now come on post another smart comment.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Yeah, Jimbos :lol: 

Put that in your pipe....


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## Jimbos (Nov 21, 2000)

Shoeman said:


> Yeah, Jimbos :lol:
> 
> Put that in your pipe....



ROFLMAO.........F-that, it's still a crap statement but in the scope of things it doesn't matter in the least to me. All I'm picturing at the moment is some chest puffed out "dude", with an Orvis vest on, watching Roland Martin, and a fly vise sitting on the coffee table, thinking, "boy I sure told him"......lol


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## kype138 (Jul 13, 2006)

I thank the good Lord Almighty that this thread was allowed to remain open and become a sore on the ass of this normally informative website...


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## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

Geez man, whats the deal here. If you want to keep your limit, have at it, if you would rather catch and release, thats fine too. As long as you do it legally, and only keep your legal limit, whats the problem? As for good fishermen on here, let me tell ya, there are quite a few, and I've the distinct pleasure to fish with a good share of them, and not one of them puffs their chest out, at least I've never seen. After all, we all understand that the next time we fish together, we may get skunked.


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## Michigander1 (Apr 5, 2006)

Jimbos said:


> ROFLMAO.........F-that, it's still a crap statement but in the scope of things it doesn't matter in the least to me. All I'm picturing at the moment is some chest puffed out "dude", with an Orvis vest on, watching Roland Martin, and a fly vise sitting on the coffee table, thinking, "boy I sure told him"......lol


 Jimbo chill out


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## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

Lightline, we dont manage our fishery based on cliches no matter how warm and fuzzy they sound. The late great Lee Wolf coined that phrase and I think he would be sick if he saw how some people interrupted his statement. Lee Wolf was an ardent fly fisherman and loved to eat trout and ate them often.

Catch and release can be a good thing in terms of conservation. Good conservation means one takes only what he can utilize within the law. When someone doesnt take fish home because that person feels it is more important to release them so someone else can catch them that is not conservation, it is ideology.

Most people understand the difference as you can see from most of the posts. I have had people tell me they think I circumvent the law because I share some of my fish with friends and family and use that for an excuse to go out and catch more. Thats where I draw the line between conservation and philosophy.

Lots of people dont see themselves as part of the food chain, but somehow above it. Actually I dont care nor do I care if you or anyone else released all the fish they catch. The only time I will say something about it is when you try to 
push those views on others. When someone makes statements like what are people going to do with all those fish or why dont they feel the need to show off their fish or question if they are on an ego trip, they are judging those people by their own morals. Thats fine, but when you do it you should be ready to hear the other side.

It is none of my business if you release all the fish you catch and it is none of your business if I keep my limit every day.

Ralf made a good point about advertising this river because just the discussion will get people thinking about it and add to the already heavy pressure. Better to ask those kinds of question in a generic way.

Lots of people join this site when they see the kind of quality people we have here they want to fit in. One of the ways some of them try is to let people know that they are real sportsmen by attacking other sportsmens ethics or morals. They think by asking rhetorical questions everyone will see they are good guys. ie. What do you think about a guy who would shoot a button buck, why would anyone want to use a crossbow during the bow season, what about the guy who keeps all the fish he catches and on and on. 

No it doesnt hurt the fishery by releasing fish, but it doesnt hurt the fishery by keeping the excess fish nature provides or in this case what the DNR provides. I disagree with you about whose job it is to manage our fishery. I think it is a job for professionals and one way they do it is by setting reasonable limits so we only harvest the excess. Most sportsmen are to just to emotional to handle the job. Remember the average trout lives about 7 years. Release a 15 inch fish which could be anywhere between 4 and 7 years old depending on the habitat of that body of water and the chances he will be caught again are probably pretty slim.

MDNRFD,

My advice to you is to lighten up and pretend you are sitting across the table from the guy you're talking to.


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## stelmon (Sep 21, 2000)

I once had the thought on all streams that if you release all your fish, other fisherman would catch them until I landed a certain fish.

I use to fish every day when I had a river by me. I did a lot of sight fishing in the runs I could see in. It was a fun challenge tricking winter fish the bite with afloat and jig. This one run I watched I never seen any steel in it during the winter, only during the fall and spring. One late February day I notice two steelie in that small run. I got about 20 yards up from the run and made blind cast to where I though the fish were. I made two cast and hooked the smaller fish and lost it. Next cast I hooked the bigger female steelie and landed her. She was bright, and about 7-8 lbs. I released her because I had plenty of fish for me and I hoped someone else would catch her.

Everyday I fished that river, I would check out that run and there she would be sitting unless it was a different fish with the same color. I made cast at her everyday with different presentations, but never once hooked her. I did hook a small male next to her one day. I knew a lot of locals on that river. None of them could hook her. One day I got down there early in the morning, and check out that run and she was gone. Never seen that fish again in that run. She was there the day before. 

That year I fished everyday during the steelhead run. The river is very small and there is not many holes for fish to hide. I never once caught a steelhead twice. My buddies who are way older then me and have many years of experience on certain river on theirs hand can count on one finger how many fish they have caught twice which is very few.


That one fish has totally changed my thoughts about releasing fish for other fisherman. Call me greedy if you'd like, but that's the way I see it. 

I am not saying that fish can't be caught twice, but I think the number is a lot fewer then people think. I have only caught one fish that i hooked, lost it at my feet, then hook it again and landed it with my jig in it's mouth. This was on a river that received no pressure. 

My new philosophy since that fish is this:

If I am on a stream that is not planted or has a very small plant, I will always release the fish for the chance of natural reproduction. If the river is planted by the thousands, and I can use the fish, I will always keep it without feeling shame. 

My point is, if your releasing fish in hopes of someone else catching it, you might be passing on a good meal.  On a river with Natural reproduction, catch and release may help out in the long run.


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## MDNRFD (Nov 18, 2008)

Splitshot I don't say anything here I wouldn't say to someones face. I think the only ones with puffed out chests here are the ones that take out there aggression on posts they don't agree with. 

I mean really Jimbos if you think what I am saying is a crock then that only brings light to the mantality that you posses daily which in my eyes makes your comments about as meaningful as the stuff I just flushed down the toilet. 

The sad thing is for what it was worth you have a fellow new member who posted his feelings and after a bunch of us barking down his neck have now turned on each other for the most miniscule of reasons. I've met alot of great guys on here and I've talked to some on these very threads that will take a trip down the river if we ever met. 

The fact is and this is true for all of the internet , that the very same ones that get aggresive on these forums and others are the ones sitting at home by themselves either alone or unhappily married because they lack the very essence of comradery and friendship that is the sole basis of why humans exist. 

Some of us should read a little more like stelmon, see that Jimbos in his signature?? Think before you post ( And make yourself look like a total dousche)


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## Jimbos (Nov 21, 2000)

Wow, whew,,,,now unzip that Orvis before it rips, that a deep breath, learn how to spell if you want to be taken seriously, and don't make threats about shoving people down a river. 

It's only fish were talking about, and oh yeah, be sure to release everything you catch, so you'll feel like a true fisherman...ROFLMAO



Now what was the name of that one guy on here that like to broadcast in post after post about the Huron river and it's fantastic fishing, then was taken aback that some lowlife's were actually keeping smallies, and wished he was packing that day? What is it about this river?


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## Michigander1 (Apr 5, 2006)

Everyone just go fishing,Mich


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## MDNRFD (Nov 18, 2008)

Bbbbbuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrpppppppppppppp


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## wanderboy (Sep 24, 2008)

Chill guys..... let's just take a step back, take a deep breath....... we all passion about fishing, all think we are right and no one else.... but really, it's just FISH!!!!


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## Greekrukus (Oct 20, 2008)

a couple of days ago i posted that i was new to fishing steel on the huron, and had alot of good responses from you guys, especially MDNRFRD. now i dont even want to be anywhere near you guys while i try to fish. the whole point of fishing is to have fun, and if you want to keep something to eat go for it. what the heck has this become? whos ***** is bigger? its ridiculous. i think we are here for the same reason, to share our stories, and make some friends. all you guys going on about who is rightor wrong is stupid. we all have opinions, they are like buttholes, they all stink. just chill out and have some fun on here. this name calling and posturing is dumb. grow the hell up. IMO im going to take some fish, leave more than i take, but in the end HAVE SOME DAMN FUN!!!


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## MDNRFD (Nov 18, 2008)

Greek,

Your completely right and I have seen on this board this very same subject time and time again. It kinda is like a whos stick is bigger contest (Although it shouldn't be). 

The point and opinions have been made and this thread has ran its course. I do believe that threads like this are a good resource to get in the open what the general populous is.

Believe it or not for what was said in this thread I am willing to bet that if we (Whoever) met on the river one day we would probably have a good time and hopefully catch some fish. Like my post previously there are alot greater things at stake then someone legally taking their limit of steel, if the Asian Carp get into these waters then we won't have to much to worry about.


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## streamertosser (May 20, 2008)

I put my .02 cents worth in on the ORIGINAL topic of discussion, since then, I've just been watchin. But this post hs gotten kinda out of hand, it should probably be closed at this point though, because once the post resorts to name calling and s**t talking, the post becomes worthless, and the orignal topic of the post becomes irrelavent.
once again, my.02, and as was said before, everybody! just go fishing already!
-Tosser


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## Queequeg (Aug 10, 2007)

I can see both sides of this argument and don't really have an issue with anyone that legally keeps fish or not. 

But, going back to my original post on this thread (which no one commented on) are we as anglers willing to pay more per year for a fishing license to maintain stocking rivers like the Huron, or are we more apt to not keep as many fish and keep license fee the same? 

Personally, our fishing license is very cheap compared to other states, but the state will be cutting most programs, and if the license rate isn't raised then stocking will diminish or go away on some rivers. 

Any comments? This is a very real issue that we'll have to deal with in the near future, perhaps in April when our current licenses expire.


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## Michigander1 (Apr 5, 2006)

Lets face it .We all have to much times on our hands .Im going fishing soon .Hey that would be a good song  Mich.


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

Real fisherman? Took me 38 years to become a half a**ed one.


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## Jimbos (Nov 21, 2000)

All I wanted to know before being attacked was why one would consider themselves a "true fisherman, or "real fisherman" because they happen to release a fish? I guess I don't understand where the superior attitude is coming from over a person who chooses to keep a legal limit or even a legally caught fish...I never did get an answer, but again I didn't expect an answer, and now I don't really want one.

And I'll be damned if I'm going to made to feel like a lesser fisherman if I want to keep some.


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## quest32a (Sep 25, 2001)

stelmon said:


> I am not saying that fish can't be caught twice, but I think the number is a lot fewer then people think. I have only caught one fish that i hooked, lost it at my feet, then hook it again and landed it with my jig in it's mouth. This was on a river that received no pressure.


Completely off topic on the original topic, but Dan I have caught the same fish over and over again out of certain streams. Heck even 20 inch browns are stupid, I caught the same exact 20 inch brown on consecutive casts on a heavily pressured SW stream. I caught him the second time in nearly the same spot I had released him the 1st time...LOL

And steelhead I know it happens quite a bit. Last spring Blaketrout and I were fishing a midsized SW river. I hooked a big buck (12+) on a bag and broke him off after about 30 seconds. Less than a minute later Blake floated a dressed jig right through the same undercut and hooked the same fish with my bag in the corner of his mouth. Same river a few years back there were lots of dropbacks around and I was fishing it pretty hard for about a week straight. I was doing pretty good numbers every day 15+ and every single day of the week I caught this hen with a gash mark on here side. She was hard to miss.... 

Same river this fall one big colorful coho buck fell to skein probably 5-6 times in one day... stupid fish. 
I think it was this one...


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

Quick question for Ralph. I have seen you guys in action at the Landsinn so I know anything is possible but you molest fish? thats just wrong.


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## Michigander1 (Apr 5, 2006)

Jimbos said:


> All I wanted to know before being attacked was why one would consider themselves a "true fisherman, or "real fisherman" because they happen to release a fish? I guess I don't understand where the superior attitude is coming from over a person who chooses to keep a legal limit or even a legally caught fish...I never did get an answer, but again I didn't expect an answer, and now I don't really want one.
> 
> And I'll be damned if I'm going to made to feel like a lesser fisherman if I want to keep some.


 Jimbo.Never feel bad about what you catch and eat.Heck i for one give more away then i eat.Makes me feel good.But i feel better eating .We all have a point of view.But bottom line we do what we feel is right.If hungry i will eat.No different then deer.Most know what wrong and whats right.We all are Human and not Perfect.We all live and learn .Same as me.I have fricked up in the past just like most.But we learn from it.Tell ya what.I be 100% honest.I fish alot of rainbows north when i can.Over 30 yrs of fishing.When i catch a 8 inch rainbow and i see blood its dead .I will keep it.Most trout guys know what im saying.They will die.Do i feel bad ? Yes.I want them to live but i know what right and whats wrong.Like leaving them in the water.I will eat and enjoy them and give thanks ,Mich


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## MDNRFD (Nov 18, 2008)

I want to personally thank the mods for letting this thread play out. I know in past this would have long been gone but I guess us posters have managed to do something right.

Look after all I have said on this thread some which I feel is right and some wrong, the bottom line here is the law. Long as you don't break it there is nothing someone can say or do. I would be willing to pay upwards of 100 or more for my license if it would make an impact. Heck if I could pay 100 and catch Salmon in the Huron like back in the ol'day then let's rock n roll. 

But to each his own I appreciate every angler I see as a true fisherman because I think the definition of a true angler is not only the want to get out and fish but also to protect what is ours. On the same note I feel there is no better reward for freezing my *** off all day then to catch that one reluctant steely I know was there all day and wouldn't bite and to finally nail him or her and take em home to have a good meal.


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## MDNRFD (Nov 18, 2008)

Oh BTW great pic quest what a hog


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Queequeg said:


> I can see both sides of this argument and don't really have an issue with anyone that legally keeps fish or not.
> 
> But, going back to my original post on this thread (which no one commented on) are we as anglers willing to pay more per year for a fishing license to maintain stocking rivers like the Huron, or are we more apt to not keep as many fish and keep license fee the same?
> 
> ...



We DO pay more for the right to fish for Trout and Salmon. We must purchase an all species license, and some of that extra money is used to rear and plant Trout, Steelhead, and Salmon. Personally, I would be willing to pay more than we currently do to maintain strong plants of Steelhead and other Trout. I feel that since the Kings are basically dying out, due to a lack of forage (Alewives, which are becoming scarce because of the invasion of Quagga Mussels), the DNR should stop raising Kings entirely, and just let natural reproduction occur, so the predators and prey find their natural balance. Not really sure how I feel about stocking of Cohos, but they sure are better to eat than Kings.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

plugger said:


> Quick question for Ralph. I have seen you guys in action at the Landsinn so I know anything is possible but you molest fish? thats just wrong.


Long dry-spell :lol:

As for a definition of a "true angler", it's certainly not one that continually exploits a resource, regardless of C&R or H&C, guide or casual angler. Drawing additional attention to a limited resource for "popularity" or "monetary gain" is just plain stupid

Some don't get it! Reminds me of the PM when guides pay people to "sleep" on their holes so they have a place to fish in the morning. Makes it tough for the casual angler, yet it's good for business and/or popularity. Some call them Gods 

Keep yappin'! Soon to come to a river near you...


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## quest32a (Sep 25, 2001)

MDNRFD said:


> Oh BTW great pic quest what a hog


Thats actually of my buddy Andy, but that fish got landed a handful of times that day. All on skein...LOL


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## wanderboy (Sep 24, 2008)

Fishndude said:


> We DO pay more for the right to fish for Trout and Salmon. We must purchase an all species license, and some of that extra money is used to rear and plant Trout, Steelhead, and Salmon. Personally, I would be willing to pay more than we currently do to maintain strong plants of Steelhead and other Trout. I feel that since the Kings are basically dying out, due to a lack of forage (Alewives, which are becoming scarce because of the invasion of Quagga Mussels), the DNR should stop raising Kings entirely, and just let natural reproduction occur, so the predators and prey find their natural balance. Not really sure how I feel about stocking of Cohos, but they sure are better to eat than Kings.


Dude,

I just saw this news not too long ago about salmon & alewives at http://www.mlive.com/muskegon/stories/index.ssf?/base/news-15/1231773323221740.xml&coll=8

".......Madenjian and other scientists at the meeting said there is no reason to panic over the lake's waning supply of prey fish. 
"Is this the beginning of the end of the food chain in Lake Michigan? I don't think so," Madenjian said. 
Some biologists believe gobies may become a major source of food for other fish in the lake, much in the way the alewife, another invasive species, supports the salmon fishery. 
The Michigan Department of Natural Resources has slashed salmon stocking in the lake over the past decade to cope with the dwindling supply of alewives. 
Scientists at Saturday's conference said salmon will likely eat goby if the fish are hungry enough. 
Dan O'Keefe, an educator for the Michigan Sea Grant program, said he received a few reports last year of anglers finding dead gobies in the bellies of salmon they caught. ..........."

I personally found a few gobies inside of sheephead, walleye, & bass. someone told me found 1 in a yellow perch, but I didn't see it myself. so i guessed what i am saying is, things aren't so bad after all.


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## Lightline (Jan 11, 2009)

Geesh! I keep getting drawn back into this thread. Since I started it I guess I deserve it. This time I just want to respond to a couple replies.

1] Ranger Ray. Real fisherman and good fisherman are seperate things. I have seen a lot of guys better than I am, beleve me. Since I apologized for calling myself a real fisherman though, I feel like that should have been dropped.

2] Splitshot. I'm going to paste an excerpt from a paper on C&R and hope it takes.


*Observations of the Effects of Catch and Release* 
* Fishing in Amazonia*​*By Paul Reiss*​The concept of catching a desirable sport fish and then releasing it, unharmed, has a long history. Trout anglers in England have utilized the practice for several centuries in an effort to maintain fish populations in their prized, local streams. Fishing legends and authors, Zane Grey and Lee Wulff, popularized the concept in the United States in the middle part of the 20th century.

As you can see it references Lee Wulff and his attitude about C&R. I'm not using cliches. I practice what I preach. Just talking and using cliches will not work. You have to be pro-active. I wiil never respond with some of the anger I see here and it was never my intent to cause it. I'm always listening to guys, at the Huron, talking about going up north or to Ohio, to fish. I can't even access most of the good spots up north, so Ohio is better for me, since it has a lot more shore fishing access. I've been to the Rocky River and I could fish some of the best spots with little trouble. However, I'm not too crazy about paying the people of Ohio to catch Little Manistee Strain Steelhead. That's what they stock, for anyone who didn't know. My whole idea is probably a wash anyway, although I have diplomatically talked a couple folks into returning some fish. I have also been cussed at for releasing one myself. "What's the %^&$ use of fishing, if you just let them go?" I see it as a contest. Two adversaries meeting in the Arena, testing one another, then going their seperate ways relatively unharmed. Of course, in this case, one of them was an umwilling contender. I guess I'm just an idealist. I've been told as much many times. If the Huron became a great fishery, word would probably get out and all the parking areas would be full of out-of state plates. So, let's just keep it tepid and hope for a few good days now and then.


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## stelmon (Sep 21, 2000)

quest32a said:


> Completely off topic on the original topic, but Dan I have caught the same fish over and over again out of certain streams. Heck even 20 inch browns are stupid, I caught the same exact 20 inch brown on consecutive casts on a heavily pressured SW stream. I caught him the second time in nearly the same spot I had released him the 1st time...LOL
> 
> And steelhead I know it happens quite a bit. Last spring Blaketrout and I were fishing a midsized SW river. I hooked a big buck (12+) on a bag and broke him off after about 30 seconds. Less than a minute later Blake floated a dressed jig right through the same undercut and hooked the same fish with my bag in the corner of his mouth. Same river a few years back there were lots of dropbacks around and I was fishing it pretty hard for about a week straight. I was doing pretty good numbers every day 15+ and every single day of the week I caught this hen with a gash mark on here side. She was hard to miss....
> 
> ...


hey Quest, thanks for making look like a no clue:lol:

LOL, anyways, I am not saying it can't be done, I just think it happens alot less then people think, especially with steelhead in my experience IMO. I have never seen it done, other then that one or two times. 

Salmon are another story. I have caught multiple salmon a couple times. I remember one fish I foul hooked a couple times, caught on skein, and flossed her a few times in one morning. I think I was 8 for 10 or something like that, and 6 of those fish were the same fish. She had a white blotch of skin on her.

I also seen a buddy foul hook a 6-8 lb king with bobber and sken. Broke him off. Re-tie, cast back out there and then land the same jack legit with the skein coming off it's side. 

Anyways, chill out guys! It's just a fish! Totally not worth having a heart attack over. If you catch a fish you want to keep and your going to use, keep it. If you are not going to put it to use, snap a pic, show us, release if for whatever and have a great day! As long as someone is within the law, who gives a crap what someone does with a fish they caught.


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## Lightline (Jan 11, 2009)

BTW, I've emailed the DNR many times, asking them if we can get bigger plants, what we can do to make habitat improvements, etc. I've told them we will take any help they can give and any time they have a few extra fish, throw them our way. I've even used my disability as a plea to make our local area better. That was shameless, I'll admit. I also reported a poaching incident. They sent an investigator out, but weren't able to find enough proof to arrest anyone. They were long gone. I believe that's being pro-active.


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## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

kype138 said:


> I thank the good Lord Almighty that this thread was allowed to remain open and become a sore on the ass of this normally informative website...


If you would have posted this on the racist thread in the political forum, I would have agreed with you. The discussions about fishing, hunting and trapping issues are exactly what should be discussed. I know people often make these kind of statements when they favor one side, but have few if any good reasons to support their position. From that perspective I can understand why they would want it to just go away.




Queequeg said:


> I can see both sides of this argument and don't really have an issue with anyone that legally keeps fish or not.
> 
> Personally, our fishing license is very cheap compared to other states, but the state will be cutting most programs, and if the license rate isn't raised then stocking will diminish or go away on some rivers.
> 
> Any comments? This is a very real issue that we'll have to deal with in the near future, perhaps in April when our current licenses expire.


This is a very real issue and I think it will cost us more and more as the population increases. The Huron river is the future of all rivers eventually. What is good about MI is that the public is allowed by law on navigable rivers to wade, float or otherwise fish them.

While stocking is a must in rivers like the Huron, the St. Joe, the Muskegon, Grand and Big Manistee if we want steel head fishing because they cannot sustain a steel head fishery without stocking.

What is positive is that organizations across the state are working to improve the habitat on many rivers including rivers that could sustain trout, but dont have enough habitat to maintain decent populations. The flies only sections of the Little Manistee and Pere Marquette receive no plants and need no plants. After the habitat improvements were made, the DNR quit planting fish in the PM because the population was self sustaining. That was determined long before the No Kill regulation was imposed.

So because of these public organizations working in concert with many public and private entities we have made tremendous progress in the last 15 years or so and the promise of more such improvements are in the works.

If you plant 500 trout in a section of river even like the Little Manistee and there is not enough cover, food and depth, you might as well keep every one you catch because they wont make it anyway. It makes little sense to return them in rivers where the trout cant survive the summer because of high water temperatures. The ones that arent caught and taken out of the system usually die anyway.

I know it makes some people feel like they are giving back to the sport they love so much by releasing the fish. I wont question anyones reasons, but if it makes them feel good, it is good enough reason. If you do it because of the Lee Wulff (I think I misspelled his name last time) cliche and think you are protecting the fishery, thats fine too, but it is not true.

When I fish steel head in the winter I do release them because like Ralf said it is unusual to get large numbers of fish enter the river once winter sets in. It is a personal thing. Steel head fishermen are a tough lot, and I dont mind thinking I am helping them out by returning my fish. Like Quest said, steel head are often caught more than once and just like other trout, some of them are just stupid and can be caught often as evidenced by reading the Gates trout log.



stelmon said:


> hey Quest, thanks for making look like (I have) no clue:lol:
> .


DUH!



Lightline said:


> Geesh! I keep getting drawn back into this thread. Since I started it I guess I deserve it. This time I just want to respond to a couple replies.
> 
> 2] Splitshot. I'm going to paste an excerpt from a paper on C&R and hope it takes.


Geesh! You start a thread and are complaining about getting drawn back in? Sorry about the sarcasm Lightline.

By saying that;  I hope it takes I assume you mean that when I read the sentiments of other catch and release advocates I will somehow be converted?

Look, I feel as strongly about fishing as anyone and probably more about trout fishing. I have donated years of my life to outdoor principles. I have the RAP number on speed dial and I have called them many times. That doesnt make me perfect and doesnt mean there arent some times I would like a do over either.

Im sure if you look you can find an organization on the Huron river where you can donate some time. Planting more trout where there isnt enough habitat to sustain them isnt the answer.

There are differing opinions about what constitutes a put and take fishery, and technically I cant disagree with Mr. Whitmore when he says you cant take them unless they are keepers which means a more accurate definition might be put and catch and release. Even in rivers like the Muskegon, many fish reach the 10' size by the middle of summer and then it is put and take.

I am very confused by the practice of planting 4" to 6" fish in our rivers when there isnt a chance they will live long enough to reach keeper size. A fish biologist now retired told me that the Federal Fish and Wildlife Service wouldnt let them plant bigger ones, but I cant find anyone to confirm that.

Im thinking that they just dont have the funds in the state budget, but I would rather see 1000 keeper trout planted than 10,000 4" to 6" fish even though I seldom fish rivers where they plant any fish. They used to plant them bigger when I was a kid.

Anyway to sum it up Queequeg, the future of good trout fishing rests in our hands. It is up to us to join organizations dedicated to restore our rivers and donate some of our time. If we do this more sections of our rivers will end up like the flies only area of the PM. Fishing will improve even if people keep the number of fish allowed by the DNR.

If people do keep fish, it does mean less fish but no matter how much legal fishing pressure is put on that river the fishery will not be endangered. If you fish any of the rivers that have good cover, you will see many areas where it is impossible to make a good presentation and those fish are never disturbed or caught. As fishing pressure increases and the easy fish are removed the remaining fish become very difficult to catch. When that happens fishermen will move to the next hot rivers and the highly pressured river will return to its previous status.

You would think that the real fishermen might want to fish these very pressured sections because of the challenge they provide and the great satisfaction they get from landing a trophy fish (15+ inches) as opposed to lobbying for special regulation that reduces the challenge and make fish easier to catch.

When I joined this site 8 years ago, my first thread questioned flies only and since then it has been debated many times. To some people it does get old, Im sure. MDNRFD it already tired of it and he just joined Oct. Of 2008. (Perhaps he has been here before ) but since we have new people joining all the time I believe it is a proper topic to discuss.

My intention is not to convince people with strong convictions like Lightline to change, but just to give others who might view this thread something to think about. These special regulation that favor what I call special people have not been questioned for years and I can tell you there was much more heavy comments when I first breached the subject. Since then many fishermen on this site and ones I talk to agree with my logic but choose not to get into the debate that almost always has some contentious posts.

I think it is because your not questioning a regulation, but a philosophy!


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## Lightline (Jan 11, 2009)

No Splitshot. I didn't mean that I hope my philosophy takes. I was hoping that the copy and paste I made took. I was informed that you couldn't post links till you had 15 posts, so I copied that article to my documents, then pasted it in here from there. I was hoping it would go through, that's all.


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## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

Thanks for the explanation. Just a suggestion, but I use a pontoon boat made by Dryfly a member of this site. I haven't fished on foot this winter because of a bad knee that I have been putting off surgery on.

Check them out on dryflyfloatboats.com. He is a site sponser if my link doesn't work. These are all made one at a time by Dave and no matter what your malady Dave will be able to customize it to fit your individual needs.

No better way to access smaller rivers like the Huron, Little Manistee, PM etc. etc. He will even let you try one out before you buy it.

good luck


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## Elk5012 (Mar 27, 2008)

Wow after reading all this thread, I think I'll stick to fishing elsewhere. You guy have enough issues to ruin a great day of fishing. Maybe thats why I've stayed away from the Huron, I've seen people being totally rude thinking that they own the river. I just want to catch some fish without someone preaching on what they think is right or wrong.


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## MDNRFD (Nov 18, 2008)

Elk and others,

This is a long standing issue long before even you were born. It's not that Huron fishermen are rude there are 2 types that fish the Huron those that appreciate what is in our backyards and so close and those that fish it and have no clue what they are doing. 

Quite frankly what I see here is just passion. I found it hard to believe when I started fishing but the competition between and the pride that one takes in there catch were surprising to me. But now that I have become a good angler ( Geez don't let that start some crap) I see where it all comes from. I remember some posts ago you asked for help regarding the Huron and you got an out pouring of support and people willing to show you the ropes. Not everyone or even the ones that get hot on here are bad people .


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## Elk5012 (Mar 27, 2008)

MDNRFD, I thought I'd give it a try fishing for steelies cause it sounded like you guys where have fun doing it. I'm glad to have all the responses to my thread about fishing for them. Now I'm thinking if you guys show me how to catch the fish, that I'd be a SOB if I kept them. Let me take my 5 fish for a year and I'd be happy. There are more fish than steelhead in the great lakes and rivers that need to be at the end of my rod and reel. Just looking for a great day on the water and friends to enjoy it with.


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## pipthefisher (Nov 16, 2008)

lets just all agree that fish have aids, and lets end this thread.


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## WILDCATWICK (Mar 11, 2002)

> Like Quest said, steel head are often caught more than once and just like other trout, some of them are just stupid and can be caught often as evidenced by reading the Gates trout log.


Care to expand on how Gate's trophy log proves anything??


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## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

Wildcatwick,

Im glad to see that your still taking the time to read my posts. That means your still learning.

To answer your question it is pretty simple. I havent looked at it in a couple of years, but when I did, I saw that there were two guys who were catching many more brown trout over 20 inches than I was catching and all their trout came from the holy waters.

I know what your thinking, but the truth is I have fished with dozens of expert fly fishermen and only one time did any of my fly fishing buddies land a trout larger than I did. I also realize that I have a big advantage because I will use any legal method to catch trout and they are restricted to just one.

Add that to the fact that a good fly fishing friend I met when I first joined site set a goal for himself to catch a 20" fish on a fly. I got an e-mail from him a couple of years ago with a note saying he finally did it.

He told me the fish came from the holy waters and it was 22" and he released the fish without even measuring it. The reason he knew it was 22" was the buddy he was fishing with had landed the same fish two days earlier from the exact same spot. 

The other thing you have to remember is I am a pretty good fly fisherman and I know how difficult it is to catch 20" browns on a fly outside the Hex and even then it isnt easy.

So call it deductive reasoning or whatever you want, but it is pretty clear to me how they did it.

Then again they could have just made it up. Rusty doesnt require any proof and he aint saying anything but you can say whatever you want. By the way the more and bigger they are the better Rusty likes it because it means more money in his pocket.

Im sure most people who read that log, figured out that they were either catching the same fish over and over or they were lying. I gave them the benefit of the doubt that they were truthful.

The DNR gives out patches for catch and release fish if they meet a certain size. Since I never applied for one, I dont know all the details, except that it is the greatest thing in the world for phony prevaricators ever invented. First you get to lie about your fish and second you get creds for releasing the same fish.

I know why you asked the question so before you get back on and slam me, be sure to add the number of 20" fish you have landed in the last 8 years on your fly rod.


Hey Elk,

Shoot me a PM in mid March and I will put you in a position to catch a steel head. They are really quite easy to hook and will give a thrill of a lifetime. I still remember the first one I caught almost 50 years ago. Keep them or release them, it will be your call.


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## MDNRFD (Nov 18, 2008)

I dunno about the quite easy to hook deal but if you see my trunk after I go fishin there be fish in dat der trunk


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## stelmon (Sep 21, 2000)

Splitshot said:


> DUH!


Always good to see still around all mighty splitshot. You bring so much knowledge to this board and is always good for a laugh or a good ole sarcastic remark


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## Steelplugger (Mar 8, 2006)

Shoeman, I have to admit that I do post a fair amount on the river in question right now. Sometimes I wonder if its too much, but I love looking at fish porn and I feel others probably do too, but I often wonder if it actually brings increased pressure to the river. This year the pressure seemed down, but I didn't get out as much as other years so it is hard to say. I have been thinking that no matter what the answer is, I will probably not be posting reports from this river as much if at all in the future... I hope that I have not annoyed anybody with my reports, as it has never been my intention to do so...


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## WILDCATWICK (Mar 11, 2002)

Fishndude said:


> Imposing slot limits works well for rivers where the species reside year-round. It allows the smaller fish to grow to a decent size, where it actually makes sense to keep them for food; and also protects the "trophy" sized fish, which will produce the most offspring when they spawn. With migratory fish, and Salmon - which die after spawning, they don't make as much sense.
> 
> If the DNR could come up with a truly practical way to clip fish, so we could differentiate between naturally reproduced fish, and hatchery raised fish (and I won't debate the fact that all hatchery reared Manistee strain Steelhead come from wild fish), I would be all for releasing "wild" fish, and only being able to keep clipped fish. Unfortunately the States which surround the Great Lakes, and Canada, haven't been able to facilitate the conference phone call to coordinate efforts to support something like this. I am sure it would require massive studies by each State, and Canada, and would take years to be implemented, if they could even reach an agreement about it.


Yes that would be almost impossible. Canada doesn't have a stocking program for most of their streams. If you go across Lake Huron to the 9mile, the Maitland, the Saugeen, and the Bayfield river these fish are either wild or were originally stocked in U.S. waters but came into Canadian streams. You would also need to get the First Nation on board as there are quite a few streams that they are in charge of as well.

If they had a stocking program I don't think it would be that big of an issue. But when there is none what the heck would they be able to keep? It just wouldn't work. But we could just do it on our own. I don't see why they would need to be involved.


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## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

QueeQueg,

I believe that is what most studies show but it is much more complicated than just imposing slot limits. You can check my facts, but I believe that the most productive spawners are 4 to 5 year old fish (15 to 20inches) depending on the type and size of the river or stream.

Most hatcheries dump the largest older fish because they are not as productive. The Little Mansitee and the PM are both rivers that have all the ingredients necessary to support trophy fish. That is why in a couple of sections the trophy regulations are in place. A 15 inch minimum size and only a 2 fish limit.

It has been proven conclusively that the Muskegon below Croton Dam will not support a trophy fishery so slot limits do not work and is why the trophy regulation status has been reversed.

On smaller rivers a few fish could reach trophy size, but because there is not enough food to grow numbers of trophy fish, it isnt practical.

The Au Sable below Mio is certainly trophy water and the special regulations will work there, but if there is a no kill regulation the trophy aspect will diminish. That is because the studies show that if you impose catch and release regulations brown trout will increase in numbers, but decrease in size.

Catch and release does make fishing easier because the easy fish will not be removed from the watershed and can be caught over and over and in my opinion is why some groups are pushing for it. My problem with that is they try to say they want those regulations to protect the fishery.

Fishndude,

The DNR does plant a small number of Skamania in a few rivers, but the vast majority of them are the Little Mansitee strain. Im not sure what Ontario plants and Wisconsin. We definitely catch fish planted from Indiana, Ohio and Wisconsin so you can never be sure but I would bet money most of them are from Michigan.

If you took eggs from two wild steel head and put half of those eggs in the river to hatch naturally and the other half you hatched in a hatchery raised them for a little over a year and released them in the same river as there brothers and sisters what is the difference in terms of genealogy. The answer is no difference and is why I cant understand the reasoning behind the higher value put on steel head without fin clips.

MDNRFD,

Im starting to think you are a member that has previously been banned. All you do is make negative comments instead of reasoned questions or advice and Im betting it wont be long before it catches up to you.

Before you go off on me again, I make some pretty biting remarks myself like I did to Mich, but his comments were just like yours. No information, added nothing to the discussion and was just rude. If you or he or anyone else doesnt agree with me, explain your position and if Im wrong about something I will admit Im wrong but if I think what you said was a joke, at least I will explain why I feel that way.


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## MDNRFD (Nov 18, 2008)

Gosh Splitshot,

It seems that if you have some sort of Bipolar or some sort of anti-personality disorder. I one stated that this thread was long time ago ran it's course and should be over because all I am reading is basically you trying to correct everyone to a way that you see fit. I added plenty of resourceful comments when this thread was meaningful. 

Also don't blow a hoot in my direction because alot of the advice I give and help that I give is either A. In a PM or B. On the Phone. I don't care to type stories on over elongated opinions as you do. I take the manner and the public aspect that you have chosen to bash Michigander as an insult on his intelligence which makes me and I'm sure others only question yours. So friggin what if someone chooses not to spell correctly or even if Mich can't spell who are you to publicly humilate him and point it out to everyone in a HAHA manner. 

To be quite honest alot of what you say is speculation, assumption or deragatory comments so I really see no positive ideology that you are inputting to this conversation other then to either make yourself look like you know what your talking about or wasting time while you should be working.


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## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

I'll stay off the bantering, but will comment one thing. As for license increases, thats fine, except for one problem. Will the state allow the DNR to keep the extra income? If that were so, than I wouldn't have a problem with it. Since I now have to buy an out of state license, it wouldn't bother me to pay a little more, if the money stays with the DNR. It seems to me that the biggest problem with the DNR is budgetary issues. If they had the money to operate properly, maybe we could get some things done, that would improve the fishery altogether. Until that time, we're pretty much at where we will always be. Before anyone rips on me cuz I'm an out of stater now, understand one thing, my heart still resides in Michigan, and all those that know me well enough, know that.


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## WILDCATWICK (Mar 11, 2002)

toto said:


> I'll stay off the bantering, but will comment one thing. As for license increases, thats fine, except for one problem. Will the state allow the DNR to keep the extra income? If that were so, than I wouldn't have a problem with it. Since I now have to buy an out of state license, it wouldn't bother me to pay a little more, if the money stays with the DNR. It seems to me that the biggest problem with the DNR is budgetary issues. If they had the money to operate properly, maybe we could get some things done, that would improve the fishery altogether. Until that time, we're pretty much at where we will always be. Before anyone rips on me cuz I'm an out of stater now, understand one thing, my heart still resides in Michigan, and all those that know me well enough, know that.


We voted for that several years back and it passed. All revenues raised by the DNR are supposed to stay with the DNR.


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## wanderboy (Sep 24, 2008)

MDNRFD said:


> Gosh Splitshot,
> 
> It seems that if you have some sort of Bipolar or some sort of anti-personality disorder. I one stated that this thread was long time ago ran it's course and should be over because all I am reading is basically you trying to correct everyone to a way that you see fit. I added plenty of resourceful comments when this thread was meaningful.
> 
> ...


I don't want to get involve in your cat fights, but I am not sure what went wrong w/ the Asian Crap thing. Been an Asian (person, not fish) myself, I see those things around me all the time back home. and I had never see one grow big enough to reach 20lb, a couple were caught that's around 25lb in past 10 years since I know about fishing. So what make them grow so BIG here in the states? Anyone of your authority care to comment on that? :idea:

I can only think of 1 reason (none-professional one), because we (fishermen & fisherwomen) don't think them as game fish.... the BIGGEST predator in nature, are the humans. When you discover how fun to catch those (eating them will be different story, since Asians eat everything, some of the fancy pants might not like those boney things). DNRs way to fight these invasive species is all wrong, in my opinion. I once saw a sign up at St. Clair Shore by DNR, that all goby caught MUST throw back to the water. WHAT THE HELL IS THAT???? 

here's my $.02....

-jd.


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## wanderboy (Sep 24, 2008)

and nobody should be fishing at the Hurons until we sort this C&R thing out. OK? :lol:


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## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

MDNRFD said:


> Gosh Splitshot,
> 
> It seems that if you have some sort of Bipolar or some sort of anti-personality disorder. I one stated that this thread was long time ago ran it's course and should be over because all I am reading is basically you trying to correct everyone to a way that you see fit. I added plenty of resourceful comments when this thread was meaningful.


I&#8217;m sure this type of rhetoric is why you got banned last time. Anyone that doesn&#8217;t agree with you must have some disorder. I get it and you know the information I provide is not accurate but you won&#8217;t correct it because you&#8217;re a nice guy.



MDNRFD said:


> Also don't blow a hoot in my direction because alot of the advice I give and help that I give is either A. In a PM or B. On the Phone.


Since one the reasons this site is even here is to publically provide helpful information. Perhaps you don&#8217;t have enough confidence in you knowledge so you make up some stupid excuse like this one, eh?



MDNRFD said:


> So friggin what if someone chooses not to spell correctly or even if Mich can't spell who are you to publicly humilate him and point it out to everyone in a HAHA manner.


Is that your excuse. The other reason people should take the time to spell right is so we can understand what they mean. So can you give me the definition of &#8220;humilate&#8221; I couldn&#8217;t find it in the dictionary. While your at it, what does deragatory mean? Maybe I should ask Mich, huh?



MDNRFD said:


> To be quite honest alot of what you say is speculation, assumption or deragatory comments so I really see no positive ideology that you are inputting to this conversation other then to either make yourself look like you know what your talking about or wasting time while you should be working.


 I wasn&#8217;t trying to provide any positive ideology, if your comprehension skills were any better than you grammar skills we all might understand you better. Now who were you before you got banned last time? Please call my boss and ask him what I should be doing.

You make some good points Wanderboy. It is probably for environmental reasons. Very seldom do new species cause more good than harm, but perhaps ol MDNRFD will call you up and fill you in. He obviously has some big time contacts as he is the one with the inside information. You know the kind that know a lot, but can&#8217;t tell you what it is for fear somebody might find out.

I&#8217;m sorry, I sometimes just can&#8217;t help myself.


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## MDNRFD (Nov 18, 2008)

Split we know you can't help yourself thats why you get a free pass here. On top of that I'm not at liberty to say why are what I am doing here. Thanks for correcting my grammar I'll be sure to take the 3rd grade over. I have alot of confidence in my abilities thats why I'll meet ya down at Huron during spring and see who does best. I mean thats if you can get out of your boat and we'll leave the plugs at home. 

There are 2 reasons why Asian Carp thrive in the midwest , cold water and lots of algae. 

And who are you to know or even speculate if I was on here before? Based on your aggressive nature towards myself and other members I assume (Your facorite thing) that it will not be to long before we don't see you around here. 

I appreciate the time that you have spent replying to my responses it makes me feel of great importance and I'll be sure to spend hours and hours wondering why I deserve such time from a man of your stature.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICILUwI_p14


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