# need help fishing casting spoons...frustrated!



## jay83 (Jun 24, 2016)

Alot of my freinds are showing me pictures of multiple steelhead they are getting off the piers now. Sometimes 2 in half hour. I ask them what they are using, they say casting spoons. Moonshines 3/4 oz to be exact. Thats all fine and well. i own 20 plus moonshine spoons but for some reason i cant get a fish to hit them for the life of me! i stand on the piers chuck them out wait for them to hit bottom then i simply retreive in. I tried reeling SLOW till i got bottom then i tried speeding up retrieve till i thought it was reeling to fast for the fish? tried 8 hours chucking and chucking nothing!!!!!!!!!!. Am i doing something wrong? anyone with experience on how to fish moonshine casting spoons please help me!!!! need easy to understand advice.
Heres what i tried... bought a moonshine 3/4 oz as is in package. shaped like a KO. i added a number 7 simple black snap swivel to it to minimize line twist. I left the treble on it came with. Casted it out at various locations off a peir. Casted straight across the peir where the fish enter casted off to each end of piers lake side etc, in all instances id wait till my line went slack indicating im on bottom then i simply reeled in steady. did that for 8 hours straight NOTHING! is that the wrong way to fish the moonshine 3/4oz? should i be twitching my rod tip every few secs during the retreive? should i not let the spoon hit bottom before i reel in? how do i fish these dam spoons? Im new to harbour/pier fishing moonshine spoons. Please help me out


----------



## dirtyfisheyes (Mar 3, 2015)

Experiment


----------



## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

When you see a fish caught, pay attention to exactly where the guy was fishing. Due to bottom contours and currents there will be certain spots along each pier where the majority of the fish will hang out. Try to figure out where those spots are and get there before someone else does each day and your success will go up dramatically.


----------



## jay83 (Jun 24, 2016)

jatc said:


> When you see a fish caught, pay attention to exactly where the guy was fishing. Due to bottom contours and currents there will be certain spots along each pier where the majority of the fish will hang out. Try to figure out where those spots are and get there before someone else does each day and your success will go up dramatically.


Ya they were using moonshine agent orange same one I was throwing. My question is was I fishing them right by simply casting out counting down to various seconds then a steady retrieve? Or do you twitch your rod tip as ur reeling them in or do u reel slow or steady? I try personally to reel steady...too slow I get hung up but steady enough I can feel my rod tip pump. Is that right


----------



## jay83 (Jun 24, 2016)

jatc said:


> When you see a fish caught, pay attention to exactly where the guy was fishing. Due to bottom contours and currents there will be certain spots along each pier where the majority of the fish will hang out. Try to figure out where those spots are and get there before someone else does each day and your success will go up dramatically.


Also was I wrong by adding a size 6 split ring and a barrel swivel to the split ring as well as a size 1 siwash hook to the moonshine before I tied to my line?


----------



## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

jay83 said:


> Ya they were using moonshine agent orange same one I was throwing. My question is was I fishing them right by simply casting out counting down to various seconds then a steady retrieve? Or do you twitch your rod tip as ur reeling them in or do u reel slow or steady? I try personally to reel steady...too slow I get hung up but steady enough I can feel my rod tip pump. Is that right



All of the above is what you need to do! As a previous poster said "experiment". The fish will respond to different retrieves depending on their mood that day. Everything you mentioned are things i do myself to entice a bite. Just keep mixing it up every few casts until you get a hit and then repeat whatever you were just doing. The key to the whole thing is to be on top of the fish. You can mirror exactly what another guy is doing that is hammering them, but if he is 150' from you the difference is he is on the correct spot and you are not. That can be very frustrating. It isn't anything you are doing wrong. Keep at it and the pieces will come together.


----------



## o_mykiss (May 21, 2013)

To clarify, are you seeing other people catching fish using spoons while you are actually fishing with spoons? 

Because if you are fishing and not seeing anything caught by others, that doesn't mean your technique is bad, it could be that you are not fishing at good times. 

If you're seeing fish caught on bait and none on spoons, could be that you chose the wrong technique, not that your spoon technique is bad in and of itself


----------



## jay83 (Jun 24, 2016)

jatc said:


> All of the above is what you need to do! As a previous poster said "experiment". The fish will respond to different retrieves depending on their mood that day. Everything you mentioned are things i do myself to entice a bite. Just keep mixing it up every few casts until you get a hit and then repeat whatever you were just doing. The key to the whole thing is to be on top of the fish. You can mirror exactly what another guy is doing that is hammering them, but if he is 150' from you the difference is he is on the correct spot and you are not. That can be very frustrating. It isn't anything you are doing wrong. Keep at it and the pieces will come together.


Thanks buddy


----------



## jay83 (Jun 24, 2016)

o_mykiss said:


> To clarify, are you seeing other people catching fish using spoons while you are actually fishing with spoons?
> 
> Because if you are fishing and not seeing anything caught by others, that doesn't mean your technique is bad, it could be that you are not fishing at good times.
> 
> If you're seeing fish caught on bait and none on spoons, could be that you chose the wrong technique, not that your spoon technique is bad in and of itself


Ya me and my friends fish at diff times as I work crazy hours they get every weekend off our schedules never work so we can fish. But they send me pics of the spoon in tho mouth gets me pumped lol


----------



## flowie (Oct 26, 2015)

just some food for thought...

what are you using for line?
if everyone else is using 10 lb clear flouro carbon and youre using 30lb powerpro braid... theres a big difference....

what reel are you using? if your ratio is 4.2 and reel retrieves at 28 inches a crank... you may not be able to reel it i. fast enough to produce a strike. maybe getting a reel with a few more bearings and a higher retrieve rate would improve things.

try offering something different. 
try a larger size, - different color or pattern. sometimes offering something sifferent in contrast to what everyone else is theowing can make a difference.
if you had an endless supply of cheeseburgers flying in your face for 8 hours... and you see a grilled chicken sandwich float by... that really stands out and is interesting. some days they want one thing though... the cheeseburger. 

you talk about letting the spoon fall to the bottom before retrieving... is the spoon deep where it needs to be deep. if youre casting out 40 feet past where the fish are, then burning in the spoon on the retrieve, it maybe be pretty far
over the fishes head when youre reeling in where the fish are. try being deep closer in.

good luck... be persistent,


----------



## jay83 (Jun 24, 2016)

flowie said:


> just some food for thought...
> 
> what are you using for line?
> if everyone else is using 10 lb clear flouro carbon and youre using 30lb powerpro braid... theres a big difference....
> ...


My gear ratio is 5:1:1. A fairly common ratio. I use 8lb stren clear blue mono. I didn't think line matters because its the lure they see. And I have no idea if I'm burning it past the fishes heads I don't even know where they are off a pier. To me all I see is endless water looking out. So I cast wherever. Usually straight across the openings of the piers where the fish enter. And straight out into lake off end of pier I'll try fishing left and right sides of piers casting out into lake. In all instances I believe depth varies from 15-20 ft approx by what boats going by me at the piers say from there fish finders. I'll cast out. Wait till my line drops telling me I hit bottm then begin my retrieve I believe from bottom the spoon rises up a 45 degree angle until it reaches u so I felt that angle coming back through the water the fish no matter what depth will see it. 

Keep in mind we are talking about fall steelhead now off the piers casting a 3/4 oz moonshine for them. Part of me didn't believe my Buddy's when they first showed me the pics of them with a steelhead in each arm that they got them on a 3/4 oz moonshine because those 3/4 are shaped like a KO and I've always thought a steelheads mouth if far to small to hit a 3/4 moonshine. Then they showed me a pic with one they got laying in the net on the pier with a 3/4 moonshine in its mouth. Now I know those 3/4 moonshines aren't to big for a steelhead to hit so its giving me confidence.

I'm thinking of ditching the stren clear blue mono for maxima ultragreen low vis mono.


----------



## Earl v2.0 (Oct 1, 2016)

Ditch the stren, fish where you see others taking fish, stay up in the water column if it's over deeper water; as active steelhead tend to travel suspended. Throw an Oslo or arctic spinner some of the time.


----------



## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

Also, don't get hung up on what your buddies are doing. My favorite fall steelhead spoon is a 2/3oz Cleo in orange/silver. Always bring/try natural patterns as well; green/silver, blue/silver, pearl, bloody-nose. KO's and Krocodile's in 1/2oz are hot for steel off the pier as well. You can crank much faster for steel than lazy kings. Like Earl said...fish higher in the column for chrome. They're fast, active predators. I also agree with the clear, 8-10lb for casting. If you think salmon hit hard...wait for your first fall steelhead .


----------



## jay83 (Jun 24, 2016)

ausable_steelhead said:


> Also, don't get hung up on what your buddies are doing. My favorite fall steelhead spoon is a 2/3oz Cleo in orange/silver. Always bring/try natural patterns as well; green/silver, blue/silver, pearl, bloody-nose. KO's and Krocodile's in 1/2oz are hot for steel off the pier as well. You can crank much faster for steel than lazy kings. Like Earl said...fish higher in the column for chrome. They're fast, active predators. I also agree with the clear, 8-10lb for casting. If you think salmon hit hard...wait for your first fall steelhead .


Oh dam I can't wait! I always thought the 2/3 oz cleos were to big for a steelheads small mouth? Saw some 2/3 Cleo's yesterday at local tackle shop they looked long in the package. But I hear of people in summer downrigging taking small 5 pound steelies on northern kings magnums etc and those spoons are 5 inches? Lol we have no alewives here on Huron so our kings and steelies feed on small emerald shiners and the odd smelt we have left. So I thought if they r used to small prey a long 2/3 Cleo that's twice the length of prey they eat here they may not know what to do with? Lol


----------



## jay83 (Jun 24, 2016)

Earl v2.0 said:


> Ditch the stren, fish where you see others taking fish, stay up in the water column if it's over deeper water; as active steelhead tend to travel suspended. Throw an Oslo or arctic spinner some of the time.


Do you think maxima ultra green is the best choice for line? I don't use lead lines I'm on a tight budget. I can afford floro but if I buy floro I always fill my spool up with it so its all main line. In the river I use a 8 ft 6 riversider. ML. WITH 4lb p line floro. Panthers are my deadly weapon up there. But pier I usually chuck 8lb test (to cope with chucking them heavy spoons) on my 9' MH Okuma SST. Just not sure if I should ditch the stren for maxima ultra green or do I just go for a floro. In same 8lb test?.


----------



## marbleye (Oct 28, 2015)

jay83 said:


> Do you think maxima ultra green is the best choice for line? I don't use lead lines I'm on a tight budget. I can afford floro but if I buy floro I always fill my spool up with it so its all main line. In the river I use a 8 ft 6 riversider. ML. WITH 4lb p line floro. Panthers are my deadly weapon up there. But pier I usually chuck 8lb test (to cope with chucking them heavy spoons) on my 9' MH Okuma SST. Just not sure if I should ditch the stren for maxima ultra green or do I just go for a floro. In same 8lb test?.


cant beat maxima....8lb is plenty..run a 6lb floro leader


----------



## Earl v2.0 (Oct 1, 2016)

On the pier casting 8lb mono, no glow/flouro necessary and no leader either. Don't over think this.


----------



## BigJoe90 (Feb 18, 2009)

Don't get too stuck on just throwing moonshine. Plenty of other spoons that catch fish too. As far as what to do. Just try everything. And everywhere. For example. I was on the end of a pier this morning. A guy showed up an hour after I know. He was on one corner of the end of the pier and I was on the other corner. Both throwing the same spoon. Reeling at about the same speed. He went 1-2 I went 0-0. Keep casting, you'll get something eventually. It's more luck in my eyes than anything


----------



## jay83 (Jun 24, 2016)

BigJoe90 said:


> Don't get too stuck on just throwing moonshine. Plenty of other spoons that catch fish too. As far as what to do. Just try everything. And everywhere. For example. I was on the end of a pier this morning. A guy showed up an hour after I know. He was on one corner of the end of the pier and I was on the other corner. Both throwing the same spoon. Reeling at about the same speed. He went 1-2 I went 0-0. Keep casting, you'll get something eventually. It's more luck in my eyes than anything


Thanks man. I have almost 100 Cleo's in 1/4oz and 1/3 oz mainly (for my upriver fishing) and I have some 2/5oz and 2/3 oz Cleo's too I throw off the pier. I know color is a hard one cuz its based on water clarity. Dirty water throw orange and gold. Pink silver. Most of my bright color moonshines. Clear water all silver. Blue silver etc. Butttt sometimes ppl do well I hear tossing bright colors like orange gold or hot pink chartreuse or various moonshines etc in the ever clear water off the piers which debunks the old wives tale of lure color. So I think ur right buddy just experiment with diff spoons and diff colors. 
I hear Len Thompsons have a diff action then a Cleo. A moonshine has diff action then a Cleo I hear cuz diff body shapes. One day they may want the action of a ko not a Cleo. Next day they may want a Cleo not a ko. One day they may only want a Len Thompson. So ur right man I'm just gonna stop being so hard on myself. Ditch the stren. Go for all maxima ultragreen 8lb and toss all my spoons. I have almost three plano trays full I may as well puttem to good use lol


----------



## B.Jarvinen (Jul 12, 2014)

You are just way over thinking it all waaaaaaaay too much. Keep fishing. 

I pretty much just fish the same lure every time on the pier now - Green Glow KO Wobbler, 3/4 oz. I used to rely on blue/silver but I think the water is too clear now and the glow paint looks more natural than chrome did 20 years ago.

I usually fish the last hour of daylight, after work, and on into the dark as well if I can take the cold that night. I prefer a cloudy day to a sunny day every time now and there is a lot of thought and conversation on which wind directions will have more fish in-shore.

But retrieve and line matter much less than just keepin' on fishin' when you can. Don't change lures incessantly and wander all over the pier and talk and eat snacks - keep a line in the water and you will catch a fish.

Last late fall I caught a Steelhead by casting for every 1.5 hours that I fished. Not every time out though. I can't wait to get home in mid-November and head straight down to the pier.


----------

