# coaster reintroduction



## dreihl (Mar 27, 2006)

just wondering if anybody knows if coaster reintrouduction has been very successful to this point? i know that there has been an effort to restore populations in southern lake superior, and i'm just curious as to whether or not spawning populations have reappeared in any u.p. streams? lets hope.


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## Blaketrout (Feb 9, 2000)

I was kind of wondering the same thing. Haven't heard a whole lot about it. I know Northern Michigan University had set up counters on a few of the tribs they had planted but haven't heard any information about the counts. I've tried it up there a few different times without any success other than catching a few of the young planters. You would think by now something would have materialized from their efforts....


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## Slider (Feb 6, 2006)

A friend and I helped the DNR plant about 30,000 of them near the mouth of the Gratiot in October, 2003. They were only about 3-4 inchers so it may be too early to tell, at least from that planting, if they got a return or not. Some students from Tech were also involved. They had implanted transmitters is several of them and were monitoring how long they stayed in the stream before heading to the big lake.


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## dreihl (Mar 27, 2006)

Blaketrout said:


> I was kind of wondering the same thing. Haven't heard a whole lot about it. I know Northern Michigan University had set up counters on a few of the tribs they had planted but haven't heard any information about the counts. I've tried it up there a few different times without any success other than catching a few of the young planters. You would think by now something would have materialized from their efforts....


i think that if some of the plants are returning to the streams to spawn, they probably do sometime in late september or early october. i think that most of the streams where they planted them close around the end july or the beginning of august for that reason. you may have been up there at the wrong time of the year. also, depending on when they started the program, brook trout grow pretty slowly, so it may be a few years we start to see any coasters. hopefully that day will come and the numbers will be strong. i would love to be able to catch 20 plus inch brookies in michigan.


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## Blaketrout (Feb 9, 2000)

I tried it end of Sept. thru Nov. at different times for the past 4 years. Also in May and June. Guess I haven't hit it just right. Have heard some interesting stories from the locals though. My buddy got one I think about 15 in. in the spring casting a cleo in the surf. Most of the time that's what I'm doing is trying to get them in surf not in the river. I've caught them before further to the east end of the lake. They would always show up around the last week of Sept. Usually right along with the first push of Coho. The first one I ever got I thought was a coho at first. When it moved out from under a log an I seen the white stripes on the fins. Turned out to be a 19 in. Brookie. Have seen them up to 5-6 lbs though...
I would almost think it would be better to save up time/money and just make the trip up to Nipigon. That sounds like the best bang for the buck for coasters. One of these years I'll do it...


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## Riverkeeper (Mar 27, 2006)

Chances are alot of those so-called coasters you guys are catching are actually splake. It's very hard to tell the difference.

The reintroduction program is not doing well at all. they picked some bad streams to plant that have been drying up to a trickle in the fall. Other factors are also coming into play.


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## ottertrapper (Jan 6, 2006)

The coaster planting has been a big waste of money up to this point in the Gratiot they just are not making it. First of all they were planting coaster brook trout a straing from Nipigon that are shoal spawners, so why would they return to a river to spawn? I know the Phd student who worked on this project for over two years and he seen a 0% return they did lake studies and came up with nothing also. 

To sum it up the efforts have been good, but the results were useless.


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## dreihl (Mar 27, 2006)

ottertrapper said:


> The coaster planting has been a big waste of money up to this point in the Gratiot they just are not making it. First of all they were planting coaster brook trout a straing from Nipigon that are shoal spawners, so why would they return to a river to spawn? I know the Phd student who worked on this project for over two years and he seen a 0% return they did lake studies and came up with nothing also.
> 
> To sum it up the efforts have been good, but the results were useless.


that is dissapointing to hear from someone really hoping for good numbers to return. lets hope they figure something out. looks like for now and for the forseable future, those wanting to hook up with some of these fish will have to make the trip the the nipigon. i don't think the salmon-trout has any public access.


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## Dedge (Sep 22, 2004)

My buddies and I have always said the same thing about the gratiot. It just doesn't hold enough water. In the summer months you will have to walk 100 yards between holes. It is a nice river in the spring, but I've always thought that they could have chosen a different river. I do agree that they have put a lot of effort into the program, but I don't know that the river is suitable for it. I very sincerely hope it works out, as I would love very much to go and fish a fall run or coasters right in my backyard. But for now I will remain very skeptical.

Dan


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## WILDCATWICK (Mar 11, 2002)

dreihl said:


> that is dissapointing to hear from someone really hoping for good numbers to return. lets hope they figure something out. looks like for now and for the forseable future, those wanting to hook up with some of these fish will have to make the trip the the nipigon. i don't think the salmon-trout has any public access.



Very limited but there is access. That river should be just fine for reintroduction. No flow issues on that river. The Gratiot? Probably not. The Mosiquito? maybe but real iffy. NMU is involved with the planting in Pictured Rocks in three streams Hurricane Creek, Mosquito Creek and Seven-Mile Creek.

The original project was to last 2 years and started in 2000 on the Salmon-Trout. Thru various sources they received more funding and the project expanded in time and in locations.

Here is a link to the 2004 completion report: http://www.glfc.org/research/reports/Schreiner.pdf

The programs have continued to get financing and are continuing with no end in sight. Everything that I've read say's it's still way to early to tell how well it's working but there are decent reports coming off of the Salmon-Trout River. They are now not only planting there in the fall but in the spring as well now.

I do have some questions thu in regards to some staments made in this thread. 



> I know the Phd student who worked on this project for over two years and he seen a 0% return they did lake studies and came up with nothing also.


Is this for the Gratiot river only? and what is the lake study? All reports that I have read state that the lake has a self sustaining spawning populaition. Small mind you but it there and going. There major spawning ground is Isle Royal. There are also numerous pockets where they will migrate in the fall to reproduce. The Salmon-Trout river is somewhat of suceess as all reports also state that it is a self sustaning Coaster Trout river that also utilizes supplemental plantings.



> To sum it up the efforts have been good, but the results were useless.


 I can't find this report from MTU. Can you provide me the link please.



> First of all they were planting coaster brook trout a straing from Nipigon that are shoal spawners, so why would they return to a river to spawn?


 This is a very interesting point. I don't know about the point that Nipigon Coasters are shoal spawners? I know that the ones I have caught in Algonquin spawned on shoals mostly but not exclusivly. I would love to read up on the habits of Nipigon strain. Any links to help me do that? Cause I have alot of questions about this. Such as I know that they are in the Nipigon river why if they are shoal spawners don't they just stay in Lake Superior or Nipigon Lake? I also have heard they spawn in the Nipegon River...are there multiple strains then in the Nipegon or are those coaster "opportunity" spawners who will do either? 

Very interesting topic. But I think the results are still going to be coming in the future. But input to my above questions for anyone who knows would be appreaciated.


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## joefsu (Jan 9, 2005)

Doesn't the Escanaba area get some fall runs of coasters out of Lake Michigan?


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## Dedge (Sep 22, 2004)

WILDCATWICK said:


> The Salmon-Trout river is somewhat of suceess as all reports also state that it is a self sustaning Coaster Trout river that also utilizes supplemental plantings.


The last I read, I believe it was in one of TU's mags, was that the Salmon Trout had the ONLY self sustaining population of coasters on the south side of Lake Superior. Is this still true?

Dan


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## WILDCATWICK (Mar 11, 2002)

Dedge said:


> The last I read, I believe it was in one of TU's mags, was that the Salmon Trout had the ONLY self sustaining population of coasters on the south side of Lake Superior. Is this still true?
> 
> Dan


Yes at this point. But the results from all the other rivers have not been tabulated at this point. I can't find one report on any of those other half dozen rivers. So far I have not seen the evedince from the transmitters. But it really is very early as they were just planted a few years ago and they sometimes take several years before they return from my understanding. The continued funding and expansion of the program to other rivers is because of the sucess of the Salmon-Trout and the beleif that it can work on other rivers....that would seem to make sense if they are somewhat similar in structure and predators. I just have not seen any evedince saying that any of the other rivers has failed. I would love to read these reports if anyone has links. I just don't think the results are in at all or are expected for another few years.


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## WILDCATWICK (Mar 11, 2002)

joefsu said:


> Doesn't the Escanaba area get some fall runs of coasters out of Lake Michigan?


Don't know. Does Lake Michigan even have Coasters?


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## Blaketrout (Feb 9, 2000)

> Chances are alot of those so-called coasters you guys are catching are actually splake.


Easy to tell around pictured rocks. Splake=no clip/Coaster=clip (the planters anyway). The one my buddy caught was a clip. You'll also catch juvenile planters with clips while trying for menominee..

The ones that I caught years ago I'm 99.9% sure were coasters. A long way from the nearest Superior Splake plant, square tails, no "hatchery fins", and definitely more vividly colored. They would show up roughly the same time every year and concentrate in small numbers in the same locations. I have caught a lot of Splake and these,IMO, were NOT Splake . 

I think they should consider some different/larger streams as well. Don't understand why a coaster would want to run a shallow/fast stream when they have all the gravel and shoals in the world out in the big Lake.


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## pikedevil (Feb 11, 2003)

joefsu said:


> Doesn't the Escanaba area get some fall runs of coasters out of Lake Michigan?


Bay de noc is stocked heavily with splake and they sometimes get very colored up and move into the rivers in the fall so every year quite a few 3-7 pound "coasters" get caught around escanaba in the rivers. These fish are extremely difficicult to tell apart from a brook trout so the ID confusion is genuine. It happens all the time. Outdoorlife did an article about "coaster" fishing there and their photo was a blatant splake, pretty funny actually. I doubt there are many true coasters in that area, most of those streams dont even have brookies in the sections where lake MI fish can spawn. As for splake in lake superior, yes they plant them and yes they are too often caught and mistaken for coasters. 
I know some of the researchers working on the coaster project in Hurricane Creek, Mosquito Creek and Seven-Mile Creek. I understand they are finding some but not many. Have heard the salmon trout is the only one finding any real success. Also have to agree the gratiot was a poor choice. Some of the researchers (aka profs) at NMU in charge of this whole mess has lost touch with reality if you ask me and see the coaster as the "lake superior" fish and overhype it to get more federal research money thrown at it. It seems they want to turn this into a Snowy Owl type of thing where the streams are all closed to fishing, no salmon, steelhead, or splake should be planted, etc. etc.


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## Dedge (Sep 22, 2004)

WILDCATWICK said:


> Don't know. Does Lake Michigan even have Coasters?


There was an article in Outdoor Life a couple of years ago about a guy who used to go out and catch them in the Cedar and Ford and some other Lake Michigan tribs. But I seem to remember thinking that a couple of those fish looked like splake to me. In fact I think that there might have been a thread on that very subject on this board a couple of years ago. Maybe not though.

At any rate I guess I don't know if they get them or not.

Dan


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## Dedge (Sep 22, 2004)

pikedevil said:


> Outdoorlife did an article about "coaster" fishing that are and there photo was a blatant splake, pretty funny actually.


PikeDevil, you buggar you beat me to it!:lol:

Dan


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## pikedevil (Feb 11, 2003)

ha sorry, 

here are some pics of fall splake from around escanaba, easy to confuse the two, especially with smaller specimens.


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## UPWalleyeGuy (Feb 17, 2006)

Pike,

The splake in the last pic is one I caught and when showing the pic to the DNR, they were leaning more towards brook trout. 

The splake numbers have dropped dramatically over here, no one is entirely sure why. They also think that there is some interbreeding with splake and brook trout. I know back in the day before splake plants they did in fact do quite well out from the ford on brookies.

Some researchers I have spoke to actually said that the new world record brook trout could be a splake brookie hybrid. I know there have been several fish that fell somewhere in between splake and brook trout when counting whatever they count.

I sure would like to see some coasters, did catch one about 17" a few years ago in a local Escanaba area river in late october/early november.


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## pikedevil (Feb 11, 2003)

Interesting info wallyeguy, thanks! 

I have heard from the NMU researchers that splake often do cross with the pure brookies and they are very concerned about it. They have been pushing hard to get splake plants removed from lake superior altogether and the SSFA has been pushing back just as hard. Not sure if there was a decision made on wether to keep the splake plants or not, I had heard they are leaning towards cutting it.


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## Dedge (Sep 22, 2004)

UPWalleyeGuy said:


> Some researchers I have spoke to actually said that the new world record brook trout could be a splake brookie hybrid.


I hadn't heard about a new world record. Guess my mind has been on walleye a lot as of late. What's the skinny? Or are you talking about the 14 lb 8 ozer from Nip?

Dan


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## dreihl (Mar 27, 2006)

Dedge said:


> I hadn't heard about a new world record. Guess my mind has been on walleye a lot as of late. What's the skinny? Or are you talking about the 14 lb 8 ozer from Nip?
> 
> Dan


the nerw record would be news to be a well. can't be talking about the 14 lb 8oz from the nip, becuase a record set in the early 1900s can't really be considered new. i curious enough to do some searching though, but i'd think that record being broken would be pretty big news and i would have heard about it by now. there is a lot of good information on this thread. i glad to hear a little more optimism in the last several posts. i'd love these fish to make a comeback. 

by the way, can someone explain to me how they can tell the two fish in the picture are splake and not brookies. they'd fool me. either way, those are beautiful fish and i wouldn't complain about catching either one of those. a catch and release replica of one of those would look pretty good on my wall, even if was a splake.


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## WILDCATWICK (Mar 11, 2002)

The tail is the tell. Now I'm not going to say that bottum picture is or isn't but the top one is definetly not a coaster. The tail is too forked. Coaster Brook trout has is almost completly squared. The bottum one is less forked considerably (or so it appears from the angle) so I would suspect that it's not a splake and would indeed be a brook trout. 

Now could it be a coaster? Sure coasters really are nothing more than a brook trout that has gone out to the lake to feed. They are migatory in nature and when mature they will head back to their stream to spawn. It takes years for them to reach that maturity level. This is why I question the results of what some people are saying. On those rivers more recently introduced with coasters the fish would not have even come back from the lake yet to spawn. This year might be the first year they start seeing some results.


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## dreihl (Mar 27, 2006)

[They are migatory in nature and when mature they will head back to their stream to spawn. It takes years for them to reach that maturity level. This is why I question the results of what some people are saying. On those rivers more recently introduced with coasters the fish would not have even come back from the lake yet to spawn. This year might be the first year they start seeing some results.[/quote]

i'm hoping that is the reason for the lack of early results. i think i read that it take a brook trout about six years to reach 18 inches, which is what i'm guessing is about the size coasters are when they spawn. that said, that might have been for stream brookies. most fish grow considerably faster in the lake, so maybe it takes 4 or 5 years to reach that size. so lets just say that it takes them four years to mature and spawn (i believe steelhead make their first spawning run in the 4th year). then if the program began in 2002, we would see the first wave of spawners this fall. does anybody know when the first attempts to reintroduce them to southern superior bagan?


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## Dedge (Sep 22, 2004)

dreihl said:


> does anybody know when the first attempts to reintroduce them to southern superior bagan?


Now don't jump on me fellas if I am wrong, but if memory serves me correctly, I think 1999. At least for Gratiot.

Dan

edit: Now that I think about it, it was very experimental in 99 and 00, and then in 2001 they really started planting a lot of them. But they did plant a few in 99 and 00. (again, this is from memory. Don't take it as gospel.) If someone could confirm I would appreciate it.


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## WILDCATWICK (Mar 11, 2002)

The Pictured Rocks program did not get in full swing until I beleive 02'. The first plants I were small (experimental) in 2000. Dedge I think you have it correct in your edit. O2' is sticking in my head as when they really went gang busters in the half dozen rivers.


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## dreihl (Mar 27, 2006)

WILDCATWICK said:


> The Pictured Rocks program did not get in full swing until I beleive 02'. The first plants I were small (experimental) in 2000. Dedge I think you have it correct in your edit. O2' is sticking in my head as when they really went gang busters in the half dozen rivers.


so, then this year or next year probably would be when those plants are mature and return to spawn. that is assuming that they take 4 to 5 years to mature. hopefully this isn't just wishful thinking.


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## Blaketrout (Feb 9, 2000)

Actually they started in 2000. http://www.michigandnr.com/fishstock/


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## username (Dec 17, 2005)

I would say that the bottom pic. that pikedevil. posted is a coaster for sure.

Why did they pick the gratiot for coasters?? I was there this past fall and the water was really low.They should have planted them in the Montreal, that is the only place I have ever caught coasters. Or the Tobacco river would have been better too.


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## redneckdan (Dec 14, 2004)

i think the salmon trout would have been one of the best options, the dam in a bottom draw isn't it?


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## ottertrapper (Jan 6, 2006)

The reason the west side trib was picked is they didn't want to risk the planters migrating to the salmon trout and spawning with the native coasters. I agree one of the east side streams would have been better for water flows.


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## joefsu (Jan 9, 2005)

WOW! Those sure look like brookies to me, I know I woulnd't be able to tell the difference. 

The whole thing about splake numbers being down......I thought splake were a hybrid between Lake Trout and Brook Trout. And since they are a hybrid and hybrids can't reproduce their drop in numbers can't be due to them cross breading. Am I right or way off base?


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## UPWalleyeGuy (Feb 17, 2006)

Sorry for the confusion guys....

I was actually referring to the potential future world record brook trout. 

The guy I spoke to said that there definately is a fear of cross breeding between brook trout and splake, this being the reason of talks of cutting splake plants. There could be a hybrid brook trout which is actually part splake. I think there may be some fear of altering the native brook trout species. 

I am no biologist but I have heard rumor of splake actually reproducing. Every fall, I have watched them go through the spawning routine. I would suspect that a female splake and a male brook trout or vise versa may have the potential for success. I did catch a fish in the Escanaba River a few years ago in the spring that was about 4" long and appeared to have a forked tail. It could have been a splake or a splake/brook trout cross but I am not sure.


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## Dedge (Sep 22, 2004)

Hey Fellas, someone else was thinking the same thing we were. This was in the local newspaper today and has some serious sucking potential:

http://mininggazette.com/stories/articles.asp?articleID=1585


Dan


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## username (Dec 17, 2005)

Is the Salmon Trout even open to the public??? 
Isnt that Huron Mountain club property??


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## dreihl (Mar 27, 2006)

username said:


> Is the Salmon Trout even open to the public???
> Isnt that Huron Mountain club property??


i'm never been to the area, but from what i've been able to read, the salmon trout is basically closed off as far as coasters are concerned. i believe that the lower stretch of the river is all privately owned by the huron mountain club and that is the only stretch that one might have chance to see coasters. i do think there is some access in the upper stretches though. at least that is the way that i understand it. probably shouldn't be taken a gospel truth. somebody correct me if i'm wrong.


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## WILDCATWICK (Mar 11, 2002)

dreihl said:


> i'm never been to the area, but from what i've been able to read, the salmon trout is basically closed off as far as coasters are concerned. i believe that the lower stretch of the river is all privately owned by the huron mountain club and that is the only stretch that one might have chance to see coasters. i do think there is some access in the upper stretches though. at least that is the way that i understand it. probably shouldn't be taken a gospel truth. somebody correct me if i'm wrong.



That's correct. There are ways thu:16suspect You can boat into there. But if you want a chance to catch a coaster you can fish the Huron river next door. There have been quite a few reports from there.


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## J - Rod (Oct 27, 2004)

Prolly a good thing the Salmon-Trout is all private. Sounds like the coaster is headed for the same fate as the Grayling in MI.


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## ottertrapper (Jan 6, 2006)

Not sure where you are hearing these reports of the Huron having coaster brook trout!! If it had coasters in it we all would know about it because they would really be trying to protect the river.


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