# Tippy, DNR what a joke



## Sparky23 (Aug 15, 2007)

Sat. night stopped down to see the zoo, 2 CO's were down there which made me happy, untill I realized they were doing nothing. At least 10-15 guys throwing weighted trebs, Jerking 5- 10 times a cast. CO's stood there for about 30 min and left. Just go to show they dont care what happens there.


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## jd_speed (Jul 22, 2014)

At least you saw some there..... It's a start.


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## pohlkat (Aug 14, 2013)

MAYBE...They were writing tickets all day and their shift was over soon?


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## GVDocHoliday (Sep 5, 2003)

How many fish did those 10-15 guys hook in that 30minutes?

Mind you, ticklers and lead minnows are legal. And what exactly does 5-10 jerks a cast have to do with anything? What laws were they actually breaking?


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## dinoday (Feb 22, 2004)

There isn't anything the CO's can do unless those guys hook and keep a fish...this year


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## wintrrun (Jun 11, 2008)

Sparky23 said:


> Sat. night stopped down to see the zoo, 2 CO's were down there which made me happy, untill I realized they were doing nothing. At least 10-15 guys throwing weighted trebs, Jerking 5- 10 times a cast. CO's stood there for about 30 min and left. Just go to show they dont care what happens there.


Next time please confront the C.O's in question before taking the time to post what you witnessed and how you felt about it.
They are approachable.


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## Sparky23 (Aug 15, 2007)

You can not set the hook mor ethan 2 times a cast, if the intention is there. It is a law. My buddy did approach them, they said noone had kept a foul hooked fish. You are also not allowed to ue anything over 1.5oz in the river, they were breaking rules. I just get sick of getting check while floating bobs or chucking sticks, while this goes on day after day and night after night.


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## BigWoods Bob (Mar 15, 2007)

On another note. ..were even any fish around for them to snag? From all the reports it sounds like there aren't any fish around anyway. Lol!!


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## dinoday (Feb 22, 2004)

BigWoods Bob said:


> On another note. ..were even any fish around for them to snag? From all the reports it sounds like there aren't any fish around anyway. Lol!!


Have you noticed the lack of reports or complaints over the last week?


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## GVDocHoliday (Sep 5, 2003)

Sparky23 said:


> You can not set the hook mor ethan 2 times a cast, if the intention is there. It is a law. My buddy did approach them, they said noone had kept a foul hooked fish. You are also not allowed to ue anything over 1.5oz in the river, they were breaking rules. I just get sick of getting check while floating bobs or chucking sticks, while this goes on day after day and night after night.


How do you know intent was there...would multiple hook sets hold up in court with no fish put on a stringer? What's the MCL which States two hook sets is the max per cast? 

Actually, 1oz is the max weight on the river. Ticklers weigh in at 7/8oz with two treble hooks and are not illegal to possess or use. 

I ask again, what rules were they breaking?


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## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

Sparky23 said:


> You can not set the hook mor ethan 2 times a cast, if the intention is there. It is a law. My buddy did approach them, they said noone had kept a foul hooked fish. You are also not allowed to ue anything over 1.5oz in the river, they were breaking rules. I just get sick of getting check while floating bobs or chucking sticks, while this goes on day after day and night after night.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Beware the internet cops GVDocHoliday ... :xzicon_sm :tdo12:


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## GVDocHoliday (Sep 5, 2003)

sfw1960 said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Beware the internet cops GVDocHoliday ... :xzicon_sm :tdo12:


Look, I completely understand the frustration. I have the same frustration as well and I know where you are coming from. At the same time the COs have their hands tied by the written and interpreted law.

What they are doing right now, is legal. Even though you and I both know exactly what they are doing. Until a couple of fish are foul hooked and put on a stringer there's really no other way for the COS to prove what they are doing is snagging.


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## wintrrun (Jun 11, 2008)

GVDocHoliday said:


> Look, I completely understand the frustration. I have the same frustration as well and I know where you are coming from. At the same time the COs have their hands tied by the written and interpreted law.
> 
> What they are doing right now, is legal. Even though you and I both know exactly what they are doing. Until a couple of fish are foul hooked and put on a stringer there's really no other way for the COS to prove what they are doing is snagging.


Well put.
Not much they can do but look forward to next year.


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## piscatorial warrior (Sep 14, 2011)

dinoday said:


> Have you noticed the lack of reports or complaints over the last week?


Hmmmm. Must mean there's nothing to report.


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## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

GVDocHoliday said:


> Look, I completely understand the frustration. I have the same frustration as well and I know where you are coming from. At the same time the COs have their hands tied by the written and interpreted law.
> 
> What they are doing right now, is legal. Even though you and I both know exactly what they are doing. Until a couple of fish are foul hooked and put on a stringer there's really no other way for the COS to prove what they are doing is snagging.


Agreed 100% - I was chuckling @ the OP's response and you don't see any MCL's posted yet - because YOU know what you're talking about.
As Wint stated: Well Put.
I don't even get the mentality of chasing them when they are waaay past their prime. I don't eat them and there's a night & day difference in fight _and _flavor from chrome to green/black.

:mischeif:


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## Drisc13 (May 6, 2009)

GVDocHoliday said:


> How many fish did those 10-15 guys hook in that 30minutes?
> 
> Mind you, ticklers and lead minnows are legal. And what exactly does 5-10 jerks a cast have to do with anything? What laws were they actually breaking?


Nephew was ticketed for "attempted snagging" with single hook and 4lb test leader. Fought it in court....and lost.


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## Sparky23 (Aug 15, 2007)

Yes there is a law for more than 2 hook sets per cast if intent is there, obviously was. Maybe they changed somthing it was 1.5 oz. not 1oz. Maybe i am wrong, either way its frustrating watching blatent snagging with CO's on scene. Not sre why your sticking up for the snagger side.


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## GVDocHoliday (Sep 5, 2003)

Sticking up for the DNR side. I'd still like to see the mcl that describes number of hook sets. What exactly is intent? If no fish are hooked or put on a stringer? Do you know how the magistrate operates in Manistee county? Perhaps they kick every single "attempt to snag" ticket back. Why would a CO waste time writing a citation if the suspect doesn't even have to go to court to fight it and have it kicked? You can't prove intent without proof. Proof at Tippy is an stringer full of foul hooked fish and detailed notes on where they were foul hooked.


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## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

_*If you're referring to me, I'm not "sticking up for either side".*_
Another poster wanted you to produce the MCLs stating your "laws" and we have several CO's here on the site that could confirm either way - but you said it, *so the burden shall be upon you to prove your words.*
I don't have a thing to do with the stinky leprosy riddled slime balls, that will be DEAD in another 30 days.
If I was the emperor, I would have the invasives eradicated and replaced with a more useful fish than _just _fertilizer.:lol:
There are plenty of other fish that can feed on the bait fish & keep them in check.
My opinion is only one, but I operate _on facts_ - you don't generally hear me saying "it's a law" because I get my facts straight before I proceed.

If you want to try & catch a half dead rotting fish corpse "legally", that is your prerogative - I have no use for them, and I usually laugh when I read about the senseless practices the "snaggers" and violators get slapped with a healthy fine for their stupidity.

When I heard about the new deer rulings I was very pleased to hear that. If only they would charge the fishing violators $3500 a lb. you would see much of the nonsense STOP.
I enjoy what the DNR does for our state, but I stick up for what's right - too many people have their own agenda, and that blurs their vision to see what is right and wrong.
:fish2:


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Sparky23 said:


> Sat. night stopped down to see the zoo, 2 CO's were down there which made me happy, untill I realized they were doing nothing. At least 10-15 guys throwing weighted trebs, Jerking 5- 10 times a cast. CO's stood there for about 30 min and left. Just go to show they dont care what happens there.


Define weighted trebles. Weight rigidly attached to a multipoint hook or suspended from one a violation. Put weight above a legal size treble and twitch away.
Over 3/8 gap on a multi point hook another violation that may have been checked ..
I know your feeling of not liking it..There were some agents who observe unobserved till there is a violation. Here's hoping they are still employed.
When snagging is going on it is not easy to mistake it for other lawful methods. A shot to a knee cap with an ounce of lead above a treble may discourage it but the judge is not likely agree with such a sentence.
Just need violation confirmed to cite beyond idiots jerking their lines and judges to make snagging not worth the price of getting caught.


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## JOHNNY A (Mar 6, 2010)

Waif said:


> Define weighted trebles. Weight rigidly attached to a multipoint hook or suspended from one a violation. Put weight above a legal size treble and twitch away.
> Over 3/8 gap on a multi point hook another violation that may have been checked ..
> I know your feeling of not liking it..There were some agents who observe unobserved till there is a violation. Here's hoping they are still employed.
> When snagging is going on it is not easy to mistake it for other lawful methods. A shot to a knee cap with an ounce of lead above a treble may discourage it but the judge is not likely agree with such a sentence.
> Just need violation confirmed to cite beyond idiots jerking their lines and judges to make snagging not worth the price of getting caught.



I'm pretty sure it's illegal to run a drop **** rig on a trout stream


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

JOHNNY A said:


> I'm pretty sure it's illegal to run a drop **** rig on a trout stream


My example was weight above the hook as opposed to more effective weight below as in drop shotting. Effective for snagging ,no offence to those who drop shot for bass ect. legally where allowed. Though a three way swivel with dropper must come into play depending on dropper length.
Much is dependent on intent to start despite a violation needing criteria established first. There are people who have practiced force feeding with single hooks in salmons mouths too. Try prosecuting that and get offended I imagine with out filming it up close. Something about a run of fish that turns some people into greedy combative creatures real quick.
When snagging was legal it may have been worse, though I only seen Tippy once then and reports since tell me it is no place for me still .


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Bear with me as I relate a favorite violating event and intervention.
When Childsdale dam still existed and a spring run of steelhead attracted all manner of people some young guys were acquiring steelhead by illegal methods. While the dialog was unheard one can guess the content when a member of a trout organisation waded to shore and picked up a little guy whose age seemed to be in the single digits, carried him out to a rock near the whirl pool and began instructing him how to fish.
In what seemed like only several minutes the youngster hooked and landed a steelie 
and was carried back to the bank with his prize to the delight of those fishing legally.
The violating ceased, for the duration of the kids visit anyway. Hope remained it would by them in the future.


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## mrjimspeaks (Aug 23, 2009)

SullysSteelies said:


> Anyone ever consider the idea that reports posted on here results in more people fishing the river each year? You think that the hundreds of snaggers who fish the rivers ever post their reports on here? Probably not, but I would be willing to bet that they lurk around on the forums reading each report so that they can time their "salmon camp" at the peak of the run.


Yep, they do. If I talk to someone on the water I'll usually ask them if they're on the site. I've gotten "nah I don't post I just check it for reports." The best was a couple good ole boys I went to HS with who were using ticklers to snag carp near my house. Hell, watch how fast the views go up on early season reports. Not many people want to hear that on this site though; more worried about gas money and stroking their epeens. No praise is sweeter than strangers on the internet praise.


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## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

jd_speed said:


> This is how bored I am. I searched through Michigan Compiled laws looking for snagging in Conservation laws and found the following. Not saying there isn't more on the subject, this is just all I could find...
> 
> 324.48739 Violation of part as misdemeanor; possession or sale of multipointed hook with weight permanently attached as misdemeanor; penalties.
> Sec. 48739.
> ...


Nice work!


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

GVDocHoliday said:


> This is a tickler. I collect them all year, melt them down and cast round balls for my Hawkins.
> 
> It is 100% a snagging lure used by the most pathetic of individuals. People who use these know what they're doing, and CO's know what they're doing. But this little gem fits into a loophole and people are able to use it.



I wrote tickets every time I found someone fishing with these. Heck, I wrote them for mere possession in their tackle box. Without a split ring on the hook attaching it to the body, they are illegal by design. They are permanently attached. 


(4) A person who possesses or sells in this state any multipointed hook with a weight permanently attached is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not less than $100.00 or more than $300.00, or both, and costs of prosecution.


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

GVDocHoliday said:


> They're not illegal to sell.



We used to write the store owners for possession, and snag hooks are illegal to sell.


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## Sparky23 (Aug 15, 2007)

Allegan and Manistee may be a long ways apart but there are not county by county laws, its sate laws. Either way lets hope they do outlaw them, good luck fishing


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

dead short said:


> I wrote tickets every time I found someone fishing with these. Heck, I wrote them for mere possession in their tackle box. Without a split ring on the hook attaching it to the body, they are illegal by design. They are permanently attached.
> 
> 
> (4) A person who possesses or sells in this state any multipointed hook with a weight permanently attached is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not less than $100.00 or more than $300.00, or both, and costs of prosecution.



That is an interesting interpretation. Would you also write up a guy using an in-line spinner that doesn't have a split ring to attach the treble?

I usually use split rings when I make my own spinners, but if I'm low on materials while fishing, I've been known to just thread the treble on the wire and use a loose wrap of the wire to finish it off and still allow the treble to rotate freely. I never even considered that this might be "illegal".

Just don't want to get fined if it is considered "required" to have the split rings.


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## GVDocHoliday (Sep 5, 2003)

dead short said:


> We used to write the store owners for possession, and snag hooks are illegal to sell.


Ticklers are not illegal to possess or illegal to sell. As long as the hooks can be removed and everything weighs less than an ounce. The split ring hasn't been in play for a couple years over here. 

Took one guy in court to take out a common multi tool and clip the ring holding the treble in a matter of seconds for the split ring requirement to go up in smoke. See...hooks removable. 


My collection of illegal gear.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

jatc said:


> That is an interesting interpretation. Would you also write up a guy using an in-line spinner that doesn't have a split ring to attach the treble?
> 
> I usually use split rings when I make my own spinners, but if I'm low on materials while fishing, I've been known to just thread the treble on the wire and use a loose wrap of the wire to finish it off and still allow the treble to rotate freely. I never even considered that this might be "illegal".
> 
> Just don't want to get fined if it is considered "required" to have the split rings.


I didn't think they where required to have split rings to be legal either.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

jatc said:


> That is an interesting interpretation. Would you also write up a guy using an in-line spinner that doesn't have a split ring to attach the treble?
> 
> I usually use split rings when I make my own spinners, but if I'm low on materials while fishing, I've been known to just thread the treble on the wire and use a loose wrap of the wire to finish it off and still allow the treble to rotate freely. I never even considered that this might be "illegal".
> 
> Just don't want to get fined if it is considered "required" to have the split rings.


Wonder if that would include Panther Martin's ?


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

We never did. That interpretation was used and supported by the prosecutors office for the salmon snagging season and crowd. It might've worked in the sportfish's favor a bit but it helped keep the crowd honest for sure. 

We haven't had to work snagging activity here for about 7-8 years.


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## caffeineforall (Jul 6, 2011)

GVDocHoliday said:


> .
> 
> 
> My collection of illegal gear.


lol i know youre a co...but isnt this collection still considered possession?

i ask because i had snagged one of the weighted trebles in the detroit river and my buddy made me throw it back in the water in a panic lol. he was saying just having them at home was illegal too?

9Lives


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## jd_speed (Jul 22, 2014)




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## jd_speed (Jul 22, 2014)

GVDocHoliday......love the collection...it's a piece of conservation art IMO.


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## -Axiom- (Jul 24, 2010)

SullysSteelies said:


> We know that there will be some up there, but why help them narrow down the days to be perfect. Let them miss timing the run perfectly a year or two to maybe get discouraged. As for reports and superiority...that's a BINGO!



Help them narrow down to the productive days so that they may catch many boots to smoke.

These stupid fish are rotting and going to die soon anyway, people should be able to harvest as many as they want.
If they are willing to eat them more power to them.

I can definitely understand the derision towards snagging with weighted treble hooks.
I don't understand why anybody gives a crap about flossing these fish, if they are hooked in the chops keep it.
Hell keep it if it's snagged as far as I'm concerned, regarding Salmon.

The worst part of the salmon run is all the litter left behind, something needs to be done about that.


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## omalson (Dec 28, 2010)

The DNR was busy yesterday writing tickets at the weir. We saw a group of 7 guys getting tickets and maybe gear confiscated. The officer said that it has been happening a lot on the little man this year due to low numbers on the other rivers. Lots of night violators. I am guessing the guys we saw didn't know the river was closed. But the officer did say they have caught more than normal there and many knew about the closure. As soon as we left the weir and drove by the tubes there was a guy fishing there. I bet that river alone could keep a CO busy till it opens back up. 

Sent from my XT1080 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## whitetailfreak8 (Nov 3, 2009)

Didn't even give all three pages a read seems like the same BS that's been polluting this part of the forum since mid August...why has this forum become a place for people to complain about other people? If you have a problem with what you see happening grow some balls and speak your mind in the moment...super easy to sit behind a screen and complain about how other people make you feel...last I checked this is a forum for sportsman to share hunting and fishing Info and stories w other sportsman if you need some comfort I suggest grabbing 10-20 chairs circle them up and you can collaborate a pity party there...personally this stuffs really annoying to keep seeing on here....go fishing quit crying about other people


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## jackface001 (Feb 8, 2014)

French tickler:lol:


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## FishMichv2 (Oct 18, 2004)

swampbuck said:


> Those salmon at tippy are not going to spawn successfully, they are going to die and go to waste. The state spends good money on that put and take fisheries.
> 
> I think that when the salmon reach that stage, there should not be snagging restrictions. I would rather see people take them, regardless of method, than to have them rot in the river, fouling the riverbottom with contaminants from the Great Lakes.


im really tired of car/deer collisions. they put our lives at risk and are always stinking up the roads and its nasty to see dead animals everywhere. therefore i think deer should be open season all year and any method of taking them should be legal....


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## NaShu21 (Sep 23, 2014)

FishMichv2 said:


> im really tired of car/deer collisions. they put our lives at risk and are always stinking up the roads and its nasty to see dead animals everywhere. therefore i think deer should be open season all year and any method of taking them should be legal....


To be fair he is referring to the salmon which are likely to die with or without being fished versus a deer that will most likely remain alive outside of hunting seasons. I don't see how a car accident is comparable to intentionally hunting ( or fishing) an animal.

Not really apples to apples.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Rotten salmon add to viability of an ecosystem. Is rough to watch when they start fading though. Must be a getting older thing.
Got to catch them farther downstream .


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## jerrob (Aug 6, 2011)

NaShu21 said:


> To be fair he is referring to the salmon which are likely to die with or without being fished versus a deer that will most likely remain alive outside of hunting seasons. I don't see how a car accident is comparable to intentionally hunting ( or fishing) an animal.
> 
> Not really apples to apples.


Here's some apples to apples. 
When one of those lead lugged grappling hooks are getting ripped through the water, they are not selective of the species they get buried into, steelhead, LRB ect.
To be fair, those non-salmon fish are just as likely to survive outside salmon hunting season as well as the deer would in your scenario.
Snagging is wrong...............PERIOD


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## jigsnwigs (Feb 6, 2011)

I can't help but laugh at this thread. How many of you anti-salmon snaggers, think your really "fishing" stealies in the spring? I'm talking about you guys that fish fast water below dams and at the end of your drift always give your line that nice hard yank. Or maybe you have perfected the "lining" technique when fishing for stealies on the beds. That's not snagging? Well maybe not in the legal sense, but it doesn't make it any more ethical than snagging salmon.

IMHO the state should stop planting all salmon, legalize all salmon snagging for the next four years, then after that have some hefty fines for anyone using "any" the above described techniques. Along with reducing the bag limits down to say two fish per day on any lake or stream. But of course we all know that will NEVER happen. The charter boat associations would have a s**t conniption fit because they would not be able to stuff there coolers with 15 or 20 fish per trip. Filling there coolers with stealhead and salmon alike. How many of you guys bitching about snagging are are yankers, liners, or charter captains? I am not pro snagging by any sense! Lets just call a spade a spade.


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## FishMichv2 (Oct 18, 2004)

NaShu21 said:


> To be fair he is referring to the salmon which are likely to die with or without being fished versus a deer that will most likely remain alive outside of hunting seasons. I don't see how a car accident is comparable to intentionally hunting ( or fishing) an animal.
> 
> Not really apples to apples.


so if a deer is really old and likely to die during the winter not long after it mates then we should be able to hunt said deer however we choose? my point is that snagging is wrong and poaching is wrong, and the ridiculous "they are going to die" argument is childish. its just an excuse people use to try to justify being a poacher.


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## caffeineforall (Jul 6, 2011)

lol wether its right or wrong is just syntax.

couple states allow snagging. 

alabama must be full of evil wrong doers!

9Lives


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Waif said:


> Rotten salmon add to viability of an ecosystem. Is rough to watch when they start fading though. Must be a getting older thing.
> Got to catch them farther downstream .



That's not all they add to the river ecosystem

http://news.nd.edu/news/36015-resea...eat-lakes-salmon-carry-contaminants-upstream/

I wouldn't suggest snagging in areas with reproduction. But in upstream areas without reproduction there is no reason not to allow it. How many steelhead or browns did you see snagged when it was legal....if any.

And as far as comparing a fish that WILL die to a deer that Maybe, might, possibly, have a very slim chance of dieing is ridiculous. If the charter and fly guys want to control what happens to the salmon, maybe they should pay to produce/plant them.


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## sullyxlh (Oct 28, 2004)

whitetailfreak8 said:


> ....go fishing quit crying about other people


Rape is rape if that's your thing so be it but

I won't stand there and watch someone get raped 

nor would I just stand there and watch someone rape our resources.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Report All Poaching 800-292-7800

Also maybe at sum point a group of us can/will pay for an Attorney to ask a Judge for an "Order To Enforce" the law as written. Far too much "looking the other way" by C.O.'s regarding snaggers, also ANY LEO is tasked with enforcing State law. So when you get no response from the MDNR call the Sheriffs office.


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## FishKilla419 (Feb 22, 2008)

swampbuck said:


> That's not all they add to the river ecosystem
> 
> http://news.nd.edu/news/36015-resea...eat-lakes-salmon-carry-contaminants-upstream/
> 
> ...


What in the he'll leads you to believe fish "that far upstream" won't spawn successfully? That's way off. What do you think they swim up there for?? In one weekend on the betsie I saw 2 skams a Lrb and handful of small trout Snagged. Last time I fished tippy in oct the low life's snagged 3 "rainbow salmon" and strung them right up.

Arguing about topics you know very little about does not lend to your credibility. It's obvious to most who the snaggers are on here.....

Sent from my S5


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## FishMichv2 (Oct 18, 2004)

swampbuck said:


> I wouldn't suggest snagging in areas with reproduction. But in upstream areas without reproduction there is no reason not to allow it.


what in the heck gives you the idea that the manistee doesnt get natural reproduction? you use the term "upstream areas" but im not sure you realize that these areas are likely where the most natural reproduction occurs. snagging is illegal because it is unsportsmanlike and we know the fish will bite, not because the fish may or may not successfully reproduce.


swampbuck said:


> How many steelhead or browns did you see snagged when it was legal....if any.


a lot actually, a hell of a lot.


swampbuck said:


> And as far as comparing a fish that WILL die to a deer that Maybe, might, possibly, have a very slim chance of dieing is ridiculous. If the charter and fly guys want to control what happens to the salmon, maybe they should pay to produce/plant them.


as stated before, the "they are going to die anyway" argument is ridiculous. trying to justify being a snagger is pointless because there is no justifiable reason to do so. using the argument to support keeping the fish makes a little sense but to use that argument because you are too lazy to legally catch a salmon and then keep it is just nonsense. if you want to snag just say "im lazy and dont really care about our resources." shining a deer and snagging a salmon are no different, they are both lazy and unsportsmanlike ways to hunt/fish. in regards to the deer, i was using a ridiculous argument in response to a ridiculous argument. you said you didnt like how they stink up the river and i said i dont like when deer stink up the roads. not only that but deer kill people on the roads. neither of these are reasons to be a poacher when there are legal ways to take the fish/animal.


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## FishMichv2 (Oct 18, 2004)

swampbuck said:


> If the charter and fly guys want to control what happens to the salmon, maybe they should pay to produce/plant them.


what makes you think they dont? i do believe that the charter business is the prime source of revenue for the state when it comes to salmon fishing. i would venture a guess that more fishing licenses are purchased for charter fishing than any other type of salmon fishing. i would also venture a guess that the "fly guys" take up a pretty substantial percentage as well. many poachers(which im getting the impression is you?) probably dont even buy a license. ill lump the bobber and hardware guys in with the "fly guys" as well as far as people who contribute money. snaggers are a black mark on our otherwise beautiful rivers in the fall. they generally have no respect for the game they are after and in turn rarely have respect for the river they are crapping on.


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## MERGANZER (Aug 24, 2006)

GVDocHoliday said:


> Ticklers are not illegal to possess or illegal to sell. As long as the hooks can be removed and everything weighs less than an ounce. The split ring hasn't been in play for a couple years over here.
> 
> Took one guy in court to take out a common multi tool and clip the ring holding the treble in a matter of seconds for the split ring requirement to go up in smoke. See...hooks removable.
> 
> ...


 
Although a ticket will probably nhot be written unless those barbs are cut off those are illegal to posess. Had a C.O. in for coffee and he noticced a collection we had on the wall and he told us if we get the wrong LEO in there we could be cited.

Ganzer


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## MERGANZER (Aug 24, 2006)

I personally wouldn't have a problem if salmon snagging was made legal again. Yes I said "again". I think if there were hook and line regulations in place so people weren't heaving 3 oz. of lead with weed whipper line across the river it would be okay. Salmon are going to spawen and they ARE going to die. If regulations were in place to keep trash out of the waterways as much as possible then I don't see the problem. You can regulate what tackle and line is legal as well as season dates and stretches of river to allow successful spawning. Just my take.

Ganzer


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## Frogpoopin (Sep 6, 2006)

Every year same complaints, same discussion, same same.... reading this thread is 15 min of my life I will never get back ...


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## whitetailfreak8 (Nov 3, 2009)

sullyxlh said:


> Rape is rape if that's your thing so be it but
> 
> I won't stand there and watch someone get raped
> 
> nor would I just stand there and watch someone rape our resources.



Weird....A bit extreme example to make your point...If you read the whole thing I never said stand by and watch I said quit posting the crybaby BS on here because this isn't a self help forum


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Frogpoopin said:


> Every year same complaints, same discussion, same same.... reading this thread is 15 min of my life I will never get back ...



No worry, in a few more years the zebra and quagga mussels will have solved the argument permanently.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

swampbuck said:


> Those salmon at tippy are not going to spawn successfully, they are going to die and go to waste. The state spends good money on that put and take fisheries.
> 
> I think that when the salmon reach that stage, there should not be snagging restrictions. I would rather see people take them, regardless of method, than to have them rot in the river, fouling the riverbottom with contaminants from the Great Lakes.


Not sure where you get your information from, but the first mile below Tippy dam is pretty much perfect spawning water for Salmon and Steelhead. And Kings do spawn very successfully there.  Then they die, and their bodies are consumed by bugs, crayfish, or simply become nutrients mixed in with the water. In nature that isn't waste. Literally millions of Kings hatch in the Big Man every spring. Some migrate out to lake Michigan, and some are eaten by other fish. 

Anyone who wants to spend money to travel to northern MI to catch rotting spawning Salmon for food, can simply figure out a way to catch them legally - get them to bite. I've caught rotting hook-jawed Kings that bit at the end of November. Snagging is lame, unethical, un-sportsmanlike, and is illegal - as it should be.


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## BigWoods Bob (Mar 15, 2007)

Fishndude said:


> . Snagging is lame, unethical, un-sportsmanlike, and is illegal - as it should be.


I've been reading this thread for several days now and finally felt the need to respond (not necessisarily to just you) Fishindude-- First of all let me preface this by saying I don't snag, and really don't care for all the "snagging types" that tend to congregate at Tippy. In fact, several years ago, I bought a boat specifically so I could get downriver and away from that mess!! I am all for the new Regulations. However-- It seems to me that a lot of you on here are VERY quick to label one type of fishing as "unethical, or "unsportsmanlike" (I'll concede the illegal part) while turning a "blind eye" to other fishing methods. The Salmon WILL die--that is a fact. While it is true that they can be caught by other methods (very effectively) early in their run, by the time they reach Tippy--Skein, Cranks, etc are not a very effective method of catching them. (Yes...some of the freshest fish can still be caught this way, but those that have been in the river (and those actively spawning)--not so much). Also--those methods require a certain "skill set" that many guys will just never be able to acheive without a very large investment of time (something many either don't have or are unwilling to invest) The main way to catch these fish (effectively) is to either "Floss" them (I guess it doesn't look like snagging), or to actually snag them. Short of those two methods (and I'd much prefer guys do the flossing than the snagging)-- *The average "Joe" that only devotes a few days a year to fishing salmon (whether by choice or by necessity), isn't likely to be able to successfully catch very many. *

Now on to the point about what is "Ethical" or "Sportsmanlike". I agree that ripping a hook through the water to snag these fish is unethical (to me), but how is this any different than bow fishing for Carp, Suckers, Gar, Dogfish, etc? On a given night of bowfishing on a place like Saginaw Bay...guys will routinely fill 55gal drums-to whole Jon Boats with Carp, only to bury them in the garden the next day! If snagging a Salmon that most likely guys are going to take home and eat is "Unethical", then how can shooting a fish with the sole intent of burying it in your garden be considered "Ethical"?? Lets not even go down the "Trash Fish" road here...Anglers from Europe cringe at what we do to carp here...ask them if they think bowfishing (or even killing carp) is ethical. 

Again...I'm not point fingers at anyone--(I bowfish too), I'm just saying what one person considers "ethical and sportsmanlike" can vary greatly from individual to individual. Try defending bow fishing to someone who doesn't fish/hunt versus snagging and I bet while they might not like either method--Snagging might just be easier to defend. 

I'll continue to keep fishing down river and away from the Snagging crowd. I'll be happy if it is eventually (by the new regs) reduced even more, but I try not to be too quick to "Judge" how someone else choses to fish or hunt-- (again law aside--if its illegal--they shouldn't be doing it). 

Just some points to ponder..... Not trying to start any agruments here!!:yikes:

Bob


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## mrjimspeaks (Aug 23, 2009)

Eh, despite how Europeans view Carp; they're not seen as sport fish here. That's why they're allowed to be bowfished. I'd also say they're doing a bit better numbers wise than salmon. Different cultures have wildly differing values. This argument would fall flat for any sport fish in Mi. 

No one likes driving 4 hrs. north and not getting fish, especially if you only take one trip...Sadly it's called fishing not catching for a reason. I've gotten skunked, or only hooked up with one or two fish plenty of times. I don't come home feeling cheated or that I wasted my money. I try to figure out if my timing was off, whether I was just unlucky, scout for new spots to try via Google, etc.


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## BigWoods Bob (Mar 15, 2007)

mrjimspeaks said:


> Eh, despite how Europeans view Carp; they're not seen as sport fish here. That's why they're allowed to be bowfished. I'd also say they're doing a bit better numbers wise than salmon. Different cultures have wildly differing values. This argument would fall flat for any sport fish in Mi.
> 
> No one likes driving 4 hrs. north and not getting fish, especially if you only take one trip...Sadly it's called fishing not catching for a reason. I've gotten skunked, or only hooked up with one or two fish plenty of times. I don't come home feeling cheated or that I wasted my money. I try to figure out if my timing was off, whether I was just unlucky, scout for new spots to try via Google, etc.


Not trying to argue....just saying...different strokes for different folks. What you see as Sporting or legitimate or whatever--someone else might not see the same way!! Luckily for us (Hunters/Anglers) what the Majority (Non's/Anti's) see as Wrong or distasteful or ethically flawed is often not "Forced" on us......(at least not yet--but they are trying)!!

FYI-- Seem to be quite a few here in the U.S. that feel that Carp ARE a sport fish. Who's right? Just sayin'  (I'll still be bowfishing by the way!!)

http://www.orvis.com/s/fishing-carp-central/12283

http://www.carpanglersgroup.com/cag/

http://www.carp.net/

http://midcurrent.com/travel/the-bahamas-of-carp-fishing/


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