# float fishing spawn bags and skein



## ausable_steelhead

> I will throw my 2 cents in. Personally I catch 99% of my salmon on bags. For some reason in they morning its chartreuse sack's, and latter in the day it's pink, and white. I don't do well with red or orange so I don't bother even making up those colors.


Bags are GREAT for kings. I like choker bags, and have found the same thing as you, chartruese in the morning. Where I differ, is red and orange. I do really well with those colors, and mainly fish chart, red and orange for kings. Pink can be really good, and white is hot for cohos. I like to run skein bags dusted in borax; straight killer on river fish.


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## lostontheice

ausable_steelhead said:


> Bags are GREAT for kings. I like choker bags, and have found the same thing as you, chartruese in the morning. Where I differ, is red and orange. I do really well with those colors, and mainly fish chart, red and orange for kings. Pink can be really good, and white is hot for cohos. I like to run skein bags dusted in borax; straight killer on river fish.



what is a choker bag..is that a larger bag or a different type..if its size..for steelhead i tie 4-6 egg bags,and for salmon i tie 8-10 egg bags..am i close on size or way off..never had anyone show me anything about salmon fishing..been learning as i go,and going crazy trying to learn it..


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## wintrrun

lostontheice said:


> what is a choker bag..is that a larger bag or a different type..if its size..for steelhead i tie 4-6 egg bags,and for salmon i tie 8-10 egg bags..am i close on size or way off..never had anyone show me anything about salmon fishing..been learning as i go,and going crazy trying to learn it..


 
choker bags are golfball sized bags and bigger.
I'd give ya the real definition but seem to have misplaced my "Steelheaders "Slang" Dictionary.


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## gillhunter

Anyone ever use marshmellows?

So if I cure the salmon eggs with salt and they retain their orange color, do I then use chartruese netting? Or should I cure them with chartruese dye?

Do you dust the bags with borax or just the skeins or both?

Do you loop snell the bags on a single hook? I always used small red trebles. Are your egg hooks red?


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## wintrrun

gillhunter said:


> Anyone ever use marshmellows?
> 
> Yes i use marshmallows in bags but usually for beach fishing.
> 
> So if I cure the salmon eggs with salt and they retain their orange color, do I then use chartruese netting? Or should I cure them with chartruese dye?
> 
> I have tyed bags for kings and generally use the leftover pieces of skein in borax that are too small to go on the hook.
> You can dye skein but its quite a messy job.
> 
> Do you dust the bags with borax or just the skeins or both?
> [/COLOR]
> Most my skeins get boraxed, a few i don't. Loose eggs don't get any cure. Although most of my fish are caught on boraxed skein, i do catch fish on uncured skein and uncured loose in the bag.
> 
> Do you loop snell the bags on a single hook?
> 
> Yes
> 
> I always used small red trebles. Are your egg hooks red?
> 
> Hook color does not matter when it comes to Kings.




Hope this helps


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## thousandcasts

I'm not going to get into cures because everyone has a different one and everyone, including me, is going to tell you their's is the best. The cure is worthless if it doesn't provide the one absolute thing that kings key in on: 

SCENT 

It doesn't matter if your eggs are purple...if there's a scent trail that those kings are getting a whiff of, they're gonna grab it. 

Yeah, you're going to have certain situations where a bag is better than raw doggin' a chuck of gut, but it still goes back to scent. 

I go through a LOT of skein since I switch up every three or four casts. 99.9% of the time, I get hit on the first two drifts after putting a fresh piece on. I don't sit there and wash a gob of gut cast after cast. I run a few drifts, change it out, run a few drifts, change it out...etc. 

Everyone has their own way of doing things and if it works, then you can't debate it. The main thing is to not over engineer the sport. If it works, then stay with it. I figured out what works best for me and now that's my program. I'm not saying mine is right or wrong...it works for me, no more no less. 

The one consistency in bobber fishing kings is scent, scent, scent. Find a cure that provides that and the rest is easy to figure out.

Well, I better clarify the above--most of your bobber fishing takes place in frog water (slow pools), so that's where scent means everything. Faster water...probably not so much.


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## samsteel

I have two questions for this thread:

1.) Do you think scent is important at all when it comes to skein?

2.) Do you think that using the search function on this site would result in any information regarding fishing with skein? 

Thanks


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## gillhunter

So does borax give a scent they're attracted to? 

So if you just tie bags with natural loose eggs then dust with borax is that enough scent?

I ask because if the cures out there create the scent then it seems some cures would work better than others.

TC, my experience has been some days they prefer the golf ball sized skeins. That's why keep casting it until less than golf ball sized. More borax may also help your skeins stay together longer.

It appears several have better luck with green in the morning...might be worth trying I figure.


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## gillhunter

What do you keep skein and bags in while fishing?


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## lostontheice

OMG...i have to say,this thread has more tips and info.than most the website ive looked at over salmon fishing the rivers..to all that have put in questions and answers...I THANK YOU..its nice to see everyone looking to help each other out..Ive learned more since ive joined the ms website than i have in over 12 years of "trying" to fish the rivers..again thank you everyone..t.c,win,a.s, and the many others that have helped,if you see me over that way,please feel free to say hi,and remind me i owe you guys..or if you ever come to the gladwin area,let me know..ill hook ya up on some great crappie and gill fishing,with some small mouth and pike action..thanks again guys...ohh..side note..looking to make an extra trip up this week with my kids..the girls want to do some trout and salmon fishing..be looking to fish the little river..if you want to have a bit of fun fishing with first time kids,ill set the day and let you know..


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## GuppyII

What fishindude said is spot on. Go to the boat launch at the mouth in Manistee and wait. It won't be long. Or you can even dumpster dive. Also try Solbergs marina or instalaunch, you will have more than enough for a few years if you hit it right. You can cure some up on the spot and cut some fresh to use while you let the cure do its magic. Good luck.

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## FishKilla419

I run 2/0 or 3/0 gamakatsu octupus. I know many others who run these hooks exclusively for kings and skein. Some guys think I'm crazy for running that big of hook. But I rarely ever have a piece of skein on my hook smaller than a golf ball so it really dosent matter imo. 
I know of 2 different spots in Manistee where you can score fresh skein twice a day for the next month. Both within 2 minutes of the main boat launch.
I had a skein receipe shared with me last year from some ol timers in TC, that was absolute dynamite. I can honestly say I had consistent bobber downs every single time I hit the water from the last weekend in August until early Oct.:yikes: This is now my favorite type of fishing hands down.

I'm readily willing to help anyone who is trying to catch these fish legit!! Im so over the whole lining snagging BS...


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## thousandcasts

FishKilla419 said:


> I run 2/0 or 3/0 gamakatsu octupus. I know many others who run these hooks exclusively for kings and skein. *Some guys think I'm crazy for running that big of hook.* But I rarely ever have a piece of skein on my hook smaller than a golf ball so it really dosent matter imo.


The red 2/0 Gama wide gap single is all I ever run when bobbin' for kings.


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## Carpmaster

thousandcasts said:


> The red 2/0 Gama wide gap single is all I ever run when bobbin' for kings.


What knot are you using Hutch? I have had some issues with line binding in the eye of these hooks.....


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## lostontheice

instalaunch?? the only launch i know of in manistee is just befor the piers on the south side of the river..(think state st. but could be wrong)..is that where you are talking about getting skeins or is there a different place??..Think the date is set for the trip with the kids..Wed.am..depending if the boss(other half) lets me go,since this means 2 trips this week,and gas at 3.78..is there anything that the kids can catch by the launch(gills,perch,ect.) that will keep em busy while i beg for skein??


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## thousandcasts

Carpmaster said:


> What knot are you using Hutch? I have had some issues with line binding in the eye of these hooks.....


Just a regular egg knot, I guess. I googled "egg knot" and this is pretty much the same knot I use: 

http://www.riptheirlipsoff.com/baitloop.html

Never had any issues with it.


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## Andydeerslayer

lostontheice said:


> instalaunch?? the only launch i know of in manistee is just befor the piers on the south side of the river..(think state st. but could be wrong)..is that where you are talking about getting skeins or is there a different place??..Think the date is set for the trip with the kids..Wed.am..depending if the boss(other half) lets me go,since this means 2 trips this week,and gas at 3.78..is there anything that the kids can catch by the launch(gills,perch,ect.) that will keep em busy while i beg for skein??


Instalaunch is the campground on the northeast side of manistee lake, where the Big M. flows into the Man. lake.


_OutdoorHub Mobile_


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## gillhunter

Does everyone use an egg slip weight on your setup? This way the king doesn't feel the weight, only the resistance of the bobber.

What size weight do you usually use for the slow pools?

From what I'm reading, all the following ways work, but scent matters most: both eggs and skeins, boraxed or cured or natural, either loop snelled on a hook or tied in a bag. Am I right?

Has anyone tried any of the salmon gravy type stuff that are out there?

Has anyone found a great way to keep them cool while fishing?


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## wartfroggy

gillhunter said:


> Has anyone found a great way to keep them cool while fishing?


Ice + Cooler = Cold

Just don't spill all the egg spooge on your beers and sandwiches....might want to bring 2 coolers.


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## FishKilla419

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUp-fbiLZVs"]&#x202a;How to tie an Egg Loop Knot Video&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]

A small cooler just for eggs is a must. Cured egg juice on your beers and sandwiches is not cool..:lol:


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## gillhunter

Yah, I've seen some fancy cooler type kreels and thought someone might have a nifty idea.

What about the weights, everyone use slip weights then?


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## Fishndude

I just use splitshot crimped onto my line, when floating skein for Kings. The kind of splitshot that is not removable. I don't like those "wings" making my stuff twist in the current.


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## gooseboy

depending on the currents I will chain my split shot, usually #7's....


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## wartfroggy

gillhunter said:


> Does everyone use an egg slip weight on your setup? This way the king doesn't feel the weight, only the resistance of the bobber.


 A slip sinker will make no difference, because the sinker is suspended from the bobber, not laying on the bottom. A fish will feel the slip sinker below a bobber just as much as they would a split shot directly on the line.


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## salmon fever

FishKilla419 said:


> Red skein globs work the best for me. Experiment with different depths. Last year I caught a ton of fish 3-5 down in 4-10 feet of water. Keep the slack out of your line. Set the hook when your float starts wiggling. He will be there. The bobber dosent always drop.


Amen to the little wiggle fishkilla. Last year I was fishing the water I often fish in the NWMI area and I was not really paying much attention to my bobber drift. I had several nice size fish just barely wiggle the bobber a bit but the skein/hook was already in their throat. They just open their mouth and suck it in and sometimes don't move much from their position in the hole. 

I have fished the bridge of another NWMI venue with "gin clear" water and have seen a king open it's mouth and take in the skein without the bobber hardly moving. I had to tell the guy next to me what I saw and that he had a fish on. Very weird but that is how late kings sometimes eat the skein.


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## steely74

I swear we had the same hook size convo last year but oh well here is my 2 cents. I never felt the need to go over a size 4 for kings in the river or pier and I never go over 10 lb test leader. I think the most important thing is using a balanced rig. Meaning if you are using smaller hooks use lighter leader same for bigger hooks and heavier leader. I usually try to use just enough skein to get the fish to bite nothing more nothing less. Ive had days where huge chunks worked and in certain situations only small pieces got bit. 

Now can we please just get 3-4 days of a consistent wind with some good rain??? Im so ready for kings to flood the rivers 

Just wanted to add Kings often mouth the bait and hold it there before the float ever moves ESPECIALLY IN FROG WATER! I could not count how many times I seen my float barely twitch and I set the hook and its fish on! Kinda like the drift fisherman if you see or feel anything unnatural set the hook!


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## gillhunter

Anyone have some nifty way to wrap/store/transport your premade leaders? 

I tried taping them and storing in a fly box but tape is hard to get off.


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## JimP

gillhunter said:


> Anyone have some nifty way to wrap/store/transport your premade leaders?
> 
> I tried taping them and storing in a fly box but tape is hard to get off.


A strip of two sided velcro, fold over and stepladder the leaders about an inch or two apart...depending on the size of the coil. 
Or 1/4" x 2" pieces folded over the coils individually.
1/4" - 1/2" x 3" to 4" strips also are good for holding 2 piece rod sections together when taken down.


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## cmueller302

Take a noodle that kids use in the pool and cut it in foot long sections. Buy coated paper clips and cut them in half. Stick hooks in foam noodle and wrap leader around noodle take half paper clip and secure tag end. Works great for harnesses also and is really cheap.
Casey

_OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors_


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## tommytubular

gillhunter said:


> Anyone have some nifty way to wrap/store/transport your premade leaders?
> 
> I tried taping them and storing in a fly box but tape is hard to get off.


Pick yourself up a leader wallet... cheap and very functional

Get one at any flyshop


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## lostontheice

well..fished all day sat...first spot..couldn't get anything to hit skein,but they would hit a black leach,and a red single egg pattern...9 fish on,3 landed(gave one to a kid that asked for a fish)..second spot..couldnt get anything to hit with a float on..reset and bounced on the bottom with a slip sinker,that was the trick..over 20 fish on,got 8 in..if it was drifting they wouldn't hit..but if it sat in the current,they would move up and suck it in..no real hard hits,more like fishing trout with worms,about the same feeling..would have got more in but started with 12lb line and after loosing alot of fish,switched to 15# max.and set the drag a little tighter..still lost a bunch to logs and extra line in the river..now i have about 1 1/2 gal.of skein,so should be all set for the next trip..one guestion,the last hen had real loose skein,does this make a difference in the way to fish it,or is it about the same as the little tighter batch i started with..not sure if i should try to fish it the same,or tie it into skein bags??..thanks for the tips on this thread,it helped alot..lost


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## lostontheice

gillhunter said:


> Anyone have some nifty way to wrap/store/transport your premade leaders?
> 
> I tried taping them and storing in a fly box but tape is hard to get off.


i used bread ties,then put em into a small bag..worked great for me..


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## shep744

New to skein! Fished bags alot. I have a buddy bringing me some fresh skein How do i store it Freeze it? Do I cut it into chucks and freeze seperately then put it into a ziplock. Do you have to cure it, to store it 2 weeks? If so what do you use to cure where do you buy it? Thanks


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## caseyj

New on this scene. What is skein or are we talking about tied spawn 
sacks?


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## lostontheice

skein is the fish eggs still in the sacs..for easy cure,get a box of 20 mule borax..you can find it in the laundry section of most stores..everyone has there way to cure it..this is how i do it..lay skein on a paper towel,or on the counter,slice one side of the sac,open and coat with borax,run lightly into the groves between the eggs,try to cover all the eggs with the borax,flip over and rub borax on the outside of the skein..place in a bowl and cover with lid(may want to use an old bowl with a locking lid)..place in fridge,next day,flip bowl on its top and place it back in fridge,second day flip back on its bottom..third day,place in either a zip lock bag and get as much of the air out as you can and put in freezer,or use as is if you are going to use it soon..will keep in fridge for a few days,if over a week or so,put in freezer...remember to open the corner of the bag when you pull it out to thaw..second way is close to the same,exept..cut skein into bait size chunks,mix one package of orange jello mix(no sugar)with the borax in a shaker type container..shake the powder onto the chunks,place in bowl with lid,into fridge,flip bowl every 2 hour if you can..if not..flip once a day for 3 days..place in a bag for freezing or keep in bowl if going to use soon..this is just how i do it,many have different ways..lost


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## JimP

Another quick tip on treating skein:
If getting it from a cleaning station, try to pick the one(s) with as little blood as possible, some cleaners just whack away...blood hastens spoiling.
Rinse in the lake or river as best you can...pat dry.
If they are your own fish: Slit the gills and stringer them in the water to bleed them out while still alive and the heart is pumping...also makes for cleaner fillet's and board.


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## shep744

Can you freeze chunks seperatly after coating Like on plastic wrap and cookie sheet. So, they dont freeze in a big chunk or is this not necessary! Thanks


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## JimP

shep744 said:


> Can you freeze chunks separately after coating Like on plastic wrap and cookie sheet. So, they dont freeze in a big chunk or is this not necessary! Thanks


After curing, Freeze in small day/weekend or whatever use amounts...snack baggies or quart baggies work, just be air tight. Stick the baggies in a tupperware for extra protection. If freezing for extended time like next season, try to use a non self defrosting freezer...the constant temp change draws the moisture out and they crystalize and freezer burn.
They thaw and separate OK, plus the juices flow around and add scent release. After thawing, keep them cool and they last quite a while if not used up on one outing. In the fridge they can last several weeks.
If they DO kick over, I've seen the smelliest things in the imagination still catch fish...don't get it on your clothes or drip in your vehicle.


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## shep744

Thanks for the help!! Going to try curing my first batchs in the morning! I May try regular and Jello varitey since, I have a gallon and a quart bag full so I have plenty!!


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## diztortion

I've been laying the chunks on paper towel and letting air dry in the fridge for 14-24 hours. 

Just depends on how tacky you want them. 

Makes for a tougher egg, just doesn't milk as much as a wet egg.


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## shep744

Are Coho eggs smaller than that of the kings. My friend gave me some Skein. However, the eggs look smaller than normal! Is this coho? Or are they smaller do to the fact they can out of the big lake? Earlier, they were fresh fish definently not a steelhead.


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## baker

Has anyone used circle hooks while king fishing. I have used them salt water fishing and the hook ups were higher. I am going out tomorrow and will use them, if the bite is aggressive it should be a no brainer..


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## wartfroggy

shep744 said:


> Are Coho eggs smaller than that of the kings. My friend gave me some Skein. However, the eggs look smaller than normal! Is this coho? Or are they smaller do to the fact they can out of the big lake? Earlier, they were fresh fish definently not a steelhead.


 Possible. How big were the skeins? My guess is they are just kings eggs that are less mature than you are used to seeing.


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## wintrrun

baker said:


> Has anyone used circle hooks while king fishing. I have used them salt water fishing and the hook ups were higher. I am going out tomorrow and will use them, if the bite is aggressive it should be a no brainer..


I use circles on the beach or pier.
I do not use them under floats due to my obvious obsession with always having to set the hook when the float disappears.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hplayer13

What's the difference between skein and bags? I thought spawn bags were skein bags? I'm so confused :help::gaga:


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## diztortion

Skein is spawn without the netting. Usually used with an egg loop or attached using magic thread. 

Bags are eggs wrapped inside a nylon mesh netting.


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## riverbob

baker said:


> Has anyone used circle hooks while king fishing. I have used them salt water fishing and the hook ups were higher. I am going out tomorrow and will use them, if the bite is aggressive it should be a no brainer..


 that's all I use on the river.( when using bait ). I used to use 181 bait holder by EC for year's, when fishing for trout n salmon. went to a circle n couldent be happyer. for bass n eyes I used to use aberdeen. now, only circle's. n cat's, a big circle, gets the job done. it take's a few missed fish. before you get the (no set the hook part down right). that hook might not be for everyone. But I like um.


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## REG

baker said:


> Has anyone used circle hooks while king fishing. I have used them salt water fishing and the hook ups were higher. I am going out tomorrow and will use them, if the bite is aggressive it should be a no brainer..


I used them exclusively for about 5 years and have backed off to use them only in certain situations. The upshot is they work best when you unlearn setting the hook.


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## hplayer13

REG said:


> I used them exclusively for about 5 years and have backed off to use them only in certain situations. The upshot is they work best when you unlearn setting the hook.


Unlearn to set the hook? I've never used circle hooks so please better explain this and the difference?


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## REG

Just start reeling. Hooksets, especially when the fish are close to you, can result in an increase in pulled hooks. If you're like me, hooksets are reflexive, and I have to remind myself not to set the hook. This probably explains why alot of guys don't like them. 

That's pretty much why I mainly use circles now for pier fishing where there's no question you've got a bite and on large rivers where ridiculously long bobber drifts are tempting.


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## LuckyChucky

hplayer13 said:


> Unlearn to set the hook? I've never used circle hooks so please better explain this and the difference?


stick to octopus style hooks for skein fishing,easier for newbies to pick up on.Seriously though there is alot of info on you tube where you can actually visualize all about skein,spawn bags,float rigs for salmon ,etc.Sometimes its easier to see something then be told something


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## hplayer13

Thanks guys ill continue reading

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## AWPREEFKEEPER

I used the search function and some Google time and found this thread....it had been extremely educational.
Thanks all that put in there 2 cent here, the pics are my first go round at curing skein. Hopefully we did it right and it turns us on to some steal and kings some day. ;-)

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## AWPREEFKEEPER

Finished product ready to be used or frozen  I put about 10/12 golf ball size chunks in each quart zip lock.

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## Robert Holmes

I don't know how you Borax guys catch fish. For 4 days each of the past two winters I ran Borax cured spawn vs. my own cure. I had three tip ups set and could not get a fish to touch the borax cured spawn so I was cured of ever using borax again. Two of the tip ups that I used had borax and the one that did not caught fish.


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## AWPREEFKEEPER

Robert, this is just my first go round, we'll see....I had no other recipes as I hear that is a pretty big secret, kinda like taking random guy to your best Steele hole ;-)

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## wartfroggy

Robert Holmes said:


> and could not get a fish to touch the borax cured spawn so I was cured of ever using borax again.


 ...or just don't use anything to cure them, and it isn't a problem worth worrying about.


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## Fishndude

Robert Holmes said:


> I don't know how you Borax guys catch fish. For 4 days each of the past two winters I ran Borax cured spawn vs. my own cure. I had three tip ups set and could not get a fish to touch the borax cured spawn so I was cured of ever using borax again. Two of the tip ups that I used had borax and the one that did not caught fish.


Who said anything about using borax cured eggs on tip-ups? I would probably hang fresh uncured Steelhead spawn from tip-ups, if that was my method of fishing. But that is just me. I use King skein cured in 20 Muleteam borax (laundry soap), floated under bobbers, for Kings. It really works great for them. I have never heard of anyone catching Kings through the ice using tip ups.


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## redneckman

I must say, I have never really river fished for kings until this year. Now I am hooked. Went 3/4 yesterday with a 19.3lber the largest, and 2/3 tonight. The rush I get from watching that bobber/float drop and knowing it is a fish is a blast! Yesterday it was Pautzke's and procure skein, and today straight borax was best. I noticed golf ball sized chunks had the most bites too.


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## mkydsm

wartfroggy said:


> ...or just don't use anything to cure them, and it isn't a problem worth worrying about.


We went up with nothing, and just used fresh skiens, just when we were running low we always seemed to catch another female. Seemed to work just as good as the cured ones, although the cure may have hung together a little better. It may not be worth the hassle. 

Started off using circle hooks, until a big king straightened it right out. Then switched to smaller trebles.


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## FishKilla419

mkydsm said:


> It may not be worth the hassle.
> .


 The original post was referring to KING fishing. Rob threw in his 2cents about boraxed eggs and winter steelheadin. 

Cured roe is so much easier to handle. Not to mention I have stuff I cured a couple weeks ago that will catch my first dozen or more fish next year. I don't have to worry about finding eggs next Aug. My hands will not be a gooey mess nor will my equipment. And I know there going to work.

With the proper setup curing skein doesn't take that long.

My steelhead eggs are cured in the belly of a hen trout. Sometimes rinsed usually not.


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## FishKilla419

AWPREEFKEEPER said:


> Finished product ready to be used or frozen  I put about 10/12 golf ball size chunks in each quart zip lock.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Looks like your set for next year.


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## AWPREEFKEEPER

What bobbers do ya'll use?

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## FishKilla419

Here fishy fishy..


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## AWPREEFKEEPER

That looks like a pile of split shot? The skein is not enough to keep the bobber up right? 
Slip so they can be easily adjusted for depth, correct?
I see a swivel just after, do you go down to, mono or flouro for a leader?

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