# Why!!!!!!!!



## Michhunter609 (Apr 3, 2012)

Why is it that I keep reading about all the kids out this weekend passing up DEER!!!!!? When did it become a huge deal for or 1st deer to be the biggest deer you will ever shoot? I am 33 I hunted for 6 years (18) before I shot my 1st deer and it was a little doe and I was happy the biggest deer I have shot is a 6 point and I shot 3 of them. I hope that all these DAD'S that have your youth shooting these big buck are telling them it is like once in a life time to shoot some of the bucks I have been seeing on the forum this weekend. And maybe if we did make it a doe only season our youth would not get board with it because they shot the biggest buck of their life at 6,8,10 however old they may have been. 


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

I read through most of the youth hunt posts and certainly didn't detect any trend towards it being common for youth hunters to pass up deer. And for those who decide to, how's it any concern of yours?

The theory that a youth loses interest if they kill a good buck at an early age is a myth. Human nature is that success typically creates a desire for more success. The kids who hit a lot of home runs in little league don't usually hang up their cleats as they get older.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

November Sunrise said:


> I read through most of the youth hunt posts and certainly didn't detect any trend towards it being common for youth hunters to pass up deer. And for those who decide to, how's it any concern of yours?
> 
> The theory that a youth loses interest if they kill a good buck at an early age is a myth. Human nature is that success typically creates a desire for more success. The kids who hit a lot of home runs in little league don't usually hang up their cleats as they get older.


You're right. They are going to want more. And this should lead them in the direction of wanting to learn more.


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## cmatts12 (Jan 4, 2012)

I aplaude the parents who are teaching our youths to " pass" on young bucks. These youths are the future of hunting in this state and it's only going to get better if we let bucks mature before harvest. I love it! It's a sign of the old farts saying of,brown it's down, is going away and let him go do he can grow is the new slogan!


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## Yooper57 (Sep 20, 2012)

November Sunrise said:


> I read through most of the youth hunt posts and certainly didn't detect any trend towards it being common for youth hunters to pass up deer. And for those who decide to, how's it any concern of yours?
> 
> The theory that a youth loses interest if they kill a good buck at an early age is a myth. Human nature is that success typically creates a desire for more success. The kids who hit a lot of home runs in little league don't usually hang up their cleats as they get older.


Agree!


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## newaygogeorge (Aug 16, 2006)

It's called freedom to choose, thank god we still have it. I agree i sure do not see any trend on MS at least.


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## TVCJohn (Nov 30, 2005)

I was waiting for one of the youngsters to post in his/her excitiment that he/she shot the deer over the sugar beets daddy put out last week.:tdo12:


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## pipe dream (Aug 3, 2006)

I haven't noticed a real trend either. As for our hunt, my daughter was shooting the 1st presentable shot on a animal with antlers. We had the 8 point she shot along with a big 3 point and a one antlered spike on the trailcam the past few days. It just so happens the 8 point was the 1st deer in the field that night. The farm we were hunting does not allow does to be shot. I cannot help this decision and don't agree but its not my property so I follow the land owners rules. On Saturday night we had a big single doe at 25 yards broadside and I had my daughter practice aiming on her which was great. Just never pulled the trigger. 
I think the big change from when us older guys ( I am 38) is the opportunity compared to when we started hunting. I think family is more involved now with the youth hunt. Back when I was 14 and started hunting my uncles would walk me out to the woods and tell me where to sit. I hardly had a clue what could happen. I was pretty much self taught and didn't connect on my 1st deer until I was 20. Now I think family is right there talking the youngsters through the shot and setting up on areas that are a good opportunity to harvest a animal. My daughter has already stated she will try for a bigger buck in the future. That is her decision and not mine. Granted she learned it from me and my friends but it is totally up to her. Just my 2 cents on the subject.


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## WAUB-MUKWA (Dec 13, 2003)

TVCJohn said:


> I was waiting for one of the youngsters to post in his/her excitiment that he/she shot the deer over the sugar beets daddy put out last week.:tdo12:


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## Masscity (Sep 17, 2012)

I agree it should be a doe only season but if your kid has already shot a buck whats wrong with "them" wanting something bigger? My 12 year old shot a small 6pt. this year after getting a nice 8pt. last year. He didn't hesitate a bit. But thats not to say next year he wont pass on some smaller bucks in hopes of a bigger one.


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## johnhunter247 (Mar 12, 2011)

Changing the Michigan mentality has to start somewhere! It doesn't look like the nrc is going to help us out through regs. Congrats to all the youngsters who want to let the little ones walk! Congrats to the parents for teaching the kids its not all about killing. The purpose of the youth hunt is to teach the kids. No better chance to learn about deer than to watch them in there natural state without disturbing them. I think brown is down is going out with the baby boomers. Congrats to all the youth hunters, even if not successful, for getting outdoors and leaving the video games and ipods behind.


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## Michhunter609 (Apr 3, 2012)

pipe dream said:


> I haven't noticed a real trend either. As for our hunt, my daughter was shooting the 1st presentable shot on a animal with antlers. We had the 8 point she shot along with a big 3 point and a one antlered spike on the trailcam the past few days. It just so happens the 8 point was the 1st deer in the field that night. The farm we were hunting does not allow does to be shot. I cannot help this decision and don't agree but its not my property so I follow the land owners rules. On Saturday night we had a big single doe at 25 yards broadside and I had my daughter practice aiming on her which was great. Just never pulled the trigger.
> I think the big change from when us older guys ( I am 38) is the opportunity compared to when we started hunting. I think family is more involved now with the youth hunt. Back when I was 14 and started hunting my uncles would walk me out to the woods and tell me where to sit. I hardly had a clue what could happen. I was pretty much self taught and didn't connect on my 1st deer until I was 20. Now I think family is right there talking the youngsters through the shot and setting up on areas that are a good opportunity to harvest a animal. My daughter has already stated she will try for a bigger buck in the future. That is her decision and not mine. Granted she learned it from me and my friends but it is totally up to her. Just my 2 cents on the subject.




Congrats to your daughter and her 8 point!!!!!! This is great I didn't mean that every youth hunt was that way. I have read a few were they are saying that the youth's are passing up on deer. I am sorry but when I take out my kids I am telling them to shoot the 1st deer that walk in front of them. 

Pipe, your store sounds like your daughter was doing what I would think the youth hunt is for. She just happen to be in the right place at the right time. And it sounds to me that she would have shot the 1st deer that she could have without breaking any rules. That's the way it should be. Once again congrats to your daughter and I am sure you have great memories of that day. 





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## localyahoo (May 28, 2009)

Michhunter609 said:


> I am sorry but when I take out my kids I am telling them to shoot the 1st deer that walk in front of them.
> 
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> 
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Why would you tell your kid to take the first animal they see? Thats no different than telling them they should wait for a 120'' 8 point. Its their season, so let them make the decision as long as its legal.


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## Whitetail_hunter (Mar 14, 2012)

I would have agreed in the past, but this is how i see it, its like a crack head chasing that first high, the better the high the harder they chase it. A big buck supplys a better high. (adrenaline) kinda weird analogy i know

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## Michhunter609 (Apr 3, 2012)

Ok maybe I am wrong and maybe I hunt for the wrong reason. I know that I can't eat what most people deer hunt for. You can't eat that 160" rack now can you I came from a family that hunts for food. So if hunting is now about seeing how big of a deer we can shoot instead of feed our family then I missed that memo somewhere. 


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

Whitetail_hunter said:


> I would have agreed in the past, but this is how i see it, its like a crack head chasing that first high, the better the high the harder they chase it. A big buck supplys a better high. (adrenaline) kinda weird analogy i know
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Ah yes, the good ole youth hunt = crack head analogy. That's one tight analogy you concocted there :lol:.


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## MIhunt (Dec 18, 2011)

I myself being a youth hunter and a state land hunter wouldnt pass on a deer even on the youth hunt unless its too small. Ill take a spike, doe, big buck, whatever i see. Granted i hunt on state land and its been 5 years and ive seen a total of 2 deer within range(1 killed my first deer a spike, and the other a doe which i missed about a week before i took my spike). But if we had our own private land were we could manage the deer heard i certainly would pass if it were early season or i knew i could do better. however were stuck on state land were people seem to shoot anything and everything im going to take the deer that give the the oppurtinity. Id prefer to pass but unfortunately id never have deer that way!


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## DEDGOOSE (Jan 19, 2007)

I personally think the mentors motives and desires should be left out of the equation whether the first deer to walk out is a doe or a 12 point. 

Your gonna have kids that excitedly say "Can I shoot, Can I shoot" as a fawn walks out. 

Your gonna have kids say daddy "I dont wanna shoot a doe I wanna shoot a buck" and than wait for any buck to present itself. 

And your finally gonna have kids most likely with a few under there belt "that are waiting on the big one"

I am sure many mentors out there will urge a kid not to shoot a doe or 5 point on the first morning because a better deer is known to exist. But the kids are gonna know when that moment arrives, when THEY personally want to take the life of that animal before them.. The better buck they knew existed and dreamed of killing becomes an afterthought in their glow of excitement.

Every youth hunt I have been on, every successful youth hunter I have been around whether a small doe, 5 point or 8 point have had the same look of extreme excitement and accomplishment on there face for hours after the kill.


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## localyahoo (May 28, 2009)

Michhunter609 said:


> Ok maybe I am wrong and maybe I hunt for the wrong reason. I know that I can't eat what most people deer hunt for. You can't eat that 160" rack now can you I came from a family that hunts for food. So if hunting is now about seeing how big of a deer we can shoot instead of feed our family then I missed that memo somewhere.
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


 I really could care less about the head gear on a buck that someone else shot. I personally would rather shoot a doe than a spike or another small antlered buck and I have shot some spikes. That is just me and I don't try to influence others. I understand that there are areas in Michigan that have little to no doe tags available, so that isn't even an option for some hunters. If that was the case for me then I wouldn't hesitate to take the first antlered deer that walked in front of me. I too hunt for meat and was raised to eat what I kill and if I'm not going to eat it than don't kill it. I recently have come across some good private property in the thumb that has put me in a better position to take a nice buck, and for that reason I am willing to let the little ones go. In the 3 years I have hunted there I have only taken one buck (110'' 9 point) and have taken 3 does. I wasn't trying to say that your response of telling a youth to take the first deer they see is wrong, but ultimately it should be up to the hunter holding the gun/bow. I actually tend to lean to your side of the argument that trophy hunting is starting a downward spiral in hunting. I just do it for the challenge of trying to take a big buck. If you were in my camp I would still give you a hand shake on a good deer even if its one I would have chose to let walk. A trophy is in the eyes of the beholder. Good Luck to you in YOUR season and I hope you connect on one that makes you happy!


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## stndpenguin (May 19, 2010)

Welcome to the future.. jump on board or get "passed" by.

It may be a stretch but i have a feeling people who pass deer are a little more obsessed/passionate about the sport so its no shock that it would be passed onto children... not to say people who dont arent obsessed/passionate, just not nearly as many

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## Michhunter609 (Apr 3, 2012)

Thank you lacolyahoo I to have a good spot for this season and I too will let some smaller ones walk for a little while anyways. Good luck on your season!!!


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## stndpenguin (May 19, 2010)

MIhunt said:


> I myself being a youth hunter and a state land hunter wouldnt pass on a deer even on the youth hunt unless its too small. Ill take a spike, doe, big buck, whatever i see. Granted i hunt on state land and its been 5 years and ive seen a total of 2 deer within range(1 killed my first deer a spike, and the other a doe which i missed about a week before i took my spike). But if we had our own private land were we could manage the deer heard i certainly would pass if it were early season or i knew i could do better. however were stuck on state land were people seem to shoot anything and everything im going to take the deer that give the the oppurtinity. Id prefer to pass but unfortunately id never have deer that way!


Pleanty of people on state land are passing deer.. and a good number of others are horrible hunters that smell and dont see them so its kind of like passing. Dont base your hunting around what others might be doing.. it takes away alot of the fun

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## MIhunt (Dec 18, 2011)

stndpenguin said:


> Pleanty of people on state land are passing deer.. and a good number of others are horrible hunters that smell and dont see them so its kind of like passing. Dont base your hunting around what others might be doing.. it takes away alot of the fun
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## GettinBucky (Jul 18, 2007)

Michhunter609 said:


> Ok maybe I am wrong and maybe I hunt for the wrong reason. I know that I can't eat what most people deer hunt for. You can't eat that 160" rack now can you I came from a family that hunts for food. So if hunting is now about seeing how big of a deer we can shoot instead of feed our family then I missed that memo somewhere.
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


I don't buy that hunt to feed my family stuff. Hunting is not a cheap sport! For what it cost just in fuel to get to a hunting location, you might be better off to spend that $$ at the grocery store if your true intent is to "FEED YOUR FAMILY" 

My son is 15....before yesterday he had shot 3 bucks(spike,4,5) and 3 does. Saturday evening he "passed" a 4 point at 50 yds, his choice because he already shot a 4 pt!! We did see a 6pt later but a shot never presented itself. Sunday morning the same 4 pt that he passed the night before appeared again. This time it was over 100yds and going away from us....by the time Hunter had a shot it was 150 yds. I stopped the buck with a whistle, Hunter fired and down he went. After a couple high 5's Hunter said with a big grin on his face....That's the first deer i got in the morning. He was correct...all the rest were in the evening. 

His choice to pass...his choice to shoot....and it was a FIRST for him. A very happy kid!!!!


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## MIhunt (Dec 18, 2011)

GettinBucky said:


> I don't buy that hunt to feed my family stuff. Hunting is not a cheap sport! For what it cost just in fuel to get to a hunting location, you might be better off to spend that $$ at the grocery store if your true intent is to "FEED YOUR FAMILY"
> 
> My son is 15....before yesterday he had shot 3 bucks(spike,4,5) and 3 does. Saturday evening he "passed" a 4 point at 50 yds, his choice because he already shot a 4 pt!! We did see a 6pt later but a shot never presented itself. Sunday morning the same 4 pt that he passed the night before appeared again. This time it was over 100yds and going away from us....by the time Hunter had a shot it was 150 yds. I stopped the buck with a whistle, Hunter fired and down he went. After a couple high 5's Hunter said with a big grin on his face....That's the first deer i got in the morning. He was correct...all the rest were in the evening.
> 
> His choice to pass...his choice to shoot....and it was a FIRST for him. A very happy kid!!!!


I think that is exactly how it should be done. It was your sons decision and rightfully so. They fact that it was his first morning deer seems to be the reason he shot it is what the true trophy should be. It seems to me that if your son made that choice to shoot the already passed on deer because it was in the morning and he hadnt had a morning deer yet means that your son has his head on straight and that you are teaching him right. Great job and hope both you and your son continue to have success and can enjoy the wonderful sport.


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## maddiedog (Nov 21, 2008)

GettinBucky said:


> I don't buy that hunt to feed my family stuff. Hunting is not a cheap sport! For what it cost just in fuel to get to a hunting location, you might be better off to spend that $$ at the grocery store if your true intent is to "FEED YOUR FAMILY"


Haven't bought beef in a few years except for a burger on the grill. I don't have to have venison to feed my family but I want to because I prefer it!


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## Midalake (Dec 7, 2009)

For what its worth. Goose hunting this morning and a farmer was telling us how his daughter went up to a friends farm in Gwinn. They were seeing a big 10pt there. After passing on several smaller bucks, the girl got the 10ptr on the last evening. No breeding there!!!!

Dave


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## stndpenguin (May 19, 2010)

MIhunt said:


> stndpenguin said:
> 
> 
> > Pleanty of people on state land are passing deer.. and a good number of others are horrible hunters that smell and dont see them so its kind of like passing. Dont base your hunting around what others might be doing.. it takes away alot of the fun
> ...


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## kdogger (Jan 10, 2005)

cmatts12 said:


> I aplaude the parents who are teaching our youths to " pass" on young bucks. These youths are the future of hunting in this state and it's only going to get better if we let bucks mature before harvest. I love it! It's a sign of the old farts saying of,brown it's down, is going away and let him go do he can grow is the new slogan!



Exactly!

The current dad "let 'em grow" generation is more educated about proper management than the grandpa "if its brown its down" generation.


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## kdogger (Jan 10, 2005)

Michhunter609 said:


> Ok maybe I am wrong and maybe I hunt for the wrong reason. I know that I can't eat what most people deer hunt for. You can't eat that 160" rack now can you I came from a family that hunts for food. So if hunting is now about seeing how big of a deer we can shoot instead of feed our family then I missed that memo somewhere.
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


This argument absolutely drives me insane. You can't eat the rack, so instead of killing an immature buck for meat that should be passed over, SHOOT A DOE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!


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## Michhunter609 (Apr 3, 2012)

Ok I didn't start this topic to get into an agreement. I started because I read a few of the youth hunt post that sounds to me passed up good bucks that's all. You can't tell me that their mentor didn't have anything to do with it that's all it was. Because I don't really care if a nice 4,6 whatever it is that walks out of the woods in shooting range and gives anyone a shot they won't take it PLEASE..... My 8 year old is not going to look at me or anyone for that matter and say it's not the deer I want. You know they have their mentor sitting next to them going don't shot that one nope let that one go.... Oh look at that big buck there a shooter kids don't think like that sorry. I took my 8 year old out squirrel hunting on Sunday and all she cared about was we where not seeing anything to kill. I had a talk with her about it not the killing that makes hunting what it is but I am not king to get into all that cause that is way to long of a story. She has been deer hunting with me rabbit hunting and squirrel hunting. That's all I was asking when I started this topic...... 


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## MIhunt (Dec 18, 2011)

stndpenguin said:


> MIhunt said:
> 
> 
> > Lol.. i didnt mean to insult you.. it was directed abroad?.. smelly hunter.. cigarettes and beer... carharts and nonrubber boots. The best advice i can give somebody not seeing deer is move.. we hunted state land west of big rapids for years.. always little scrubby bucks and undersized does... got tired no doe tags and watching the little buck you let run by come back through 45 minutes later hobbling on 3 legs and having to waste a tag to put him out of his misery. Lots of public land around.. scout new and goodluck
> ...


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

It beginning to sound a lot like deer season...:lol:


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## ramitupurs84 (Nov 9, 2008)

The kids need to make the choice. If they want to whack a spike let them. Personally, it's like cutting the line when a small bluegill on line and saying "We only bring the big ones home. " who wants to go anymore?


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

kdogger said:


> This argument absolutely drives me insane. You can't eat the rack, so instead of killing an immature buck for meat that should be passed over, SHOOT A DOE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!


And this is the one that drives me insane... 
Is it too much to consider that maybe they didn't see a doe?


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## bassdisaster (Jun 21, 2007)

A successful hunt is just that, matters not the size of the animal!
My only concern with youth hunts is the Youths themselves, I know there are youths that have awareness but @ 8-9 yrs old how many actually understand what it means to kill or be killed?
No 2 kids are alike and therefor I do not agree that all kids in that age group allowed to partake in the Youth hunts are aware of what it means to DIE! And therfor shold'nt be killing anything or making decisions to do so!
Think about that for a moment or 2! 
Its choice and thats all that matters, but alot of dads are instilling the QDM BS in their kids, they wont shoot smaller deer got to have a BIG one, we as hunters forget the baseline of why we do it.....FOOD
They all have their reasons to hunt but it should be for them, not us, how many kids are taking that Big Buck just to impress Dad?

BD


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## johnhunter247 (Mar 12, 2011)

bassdisaster said:


> A successful hunt is just that, matters not the size of the animal!
> My only concern with youth hunts is the Youths themselves, I know there are youths that have awareness but @ 8-9 yrs old how many actually understand what it means to kill or be killed?
> No 2 kids are alike and therefor I do not agree that all kids in that age group allowed to partake in the Youth hunts are aware of what it means to DIE! And therfor shold'nt be killing anything or making decisions to do so!
> Think about that for a moment or 2!
> ...


 I agree with you 100% about the kids knowing what it means to take that animals life. But I hope my kids keep impressing away and letting the little ones go. The hunt for food and brown is down mentality has to go. Its cheaper to go to the grocery store and buy chicken, beef, fish than to buy guns, bows,clothes, gas, tags etc... There is nothing cheap about hunting. I commend the young kids for leaving the brown is down mentality behind. Being the parents influence or not I am glad to see it going by the way side.


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## hunterrep (Aug 10, 2005)

bassdisaster said:


> Its choice and thats all that matters, but alot of dads are instilling the QDM BS in their kids, they wont shoot smaller deer got to have a BIG one, we as hunters forget the baseline of why we do it.....FOOD
> They all have their reasons to hunt but it should be for them, not us, how many kids are taking that Big Buck just to impress Dad?
> 
> BD


You say it is all about choice and it's alll that matters.....and then call out QDM BS!!!!! Are you saying that theirs is a bad choice? What a glaring example of a hypocrite. 
And....the baseline for why we do it is NOT for food for a lot of hunters that I know.


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## GVDocHoliday (Sep 5, 2003)

Sorry folks but the baseline of why we hunt is not FOOD, not anymore. Don't get me wrong, I love venison and gladly fill my freezer every year. I don't spend a couple thousand dollars on fuel, equipment, etc to hunt in five different counties simply for food. I do it braise I like killing deer, does and BIG bucks specifically. If I dnr like killing deer, I'd just buy a butchered cow every fall. It'd be cheaper for prolly 70% of hunters


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## Michhunter609 (Apr 3, 2012)

GVDocHoliday said:


> Sorry folks but the baseline of why we hunt is not FOOD, not anymore. Don't get me wrong, I love venison and gladly fill my freezer every year. I don't spend a couple thousand dollars on fuel, equipment, etc to hunt in five different counties simply for food. I do it braise I like killing deer, does and BIG bucks specifically. If I dnr like killing deer, I'd just buy a butchered cow every fall. It'd be cheaper for prolly 70% of hunters


no you don't that's the bottom line is most don't. I on the other hand do I am shooting a bow that I have had for 13 years shooting the gun that my grandpa used, my dad used, and now I use. I hunted with the same hunting suit for 9+ years before I replaced it. This last year the boots I replaced last season I got from my grandparents the year I started hunting witch I was 14 and I am now 33 you the math. It's is the people that are trying to go shoot the biggest deer anyone has ever seen that make it cost so much!!!!! So I do hunt for the FOOD!!!!!!




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