# Out Of the Box Thought



## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

For some thoughts outside the box. It seems a lot of us in SW area would like to run the season later. It is always argued we can't becasue the majority of waterfowlers reside in the bay area. They make the decisions for the Zone 3 (south zone) dates. While SW reps have input it seems to ba a major obstacle in December hunting. I think we can all agree on this fact. Last year and even this year some have floated an idea around of a 4th zone. That idea had a lot of mixed opinons. 

How about considering this. Just some thinking outside the box, and I don't think I have seen it mentioned yet, correct me if i am wrong. 

How about making Saginaw Bay, and every surrounding county that borders the bay the 4th zone ? The lines would be the county lines that surround the bay. Any thoughts ? 

My reasoning - It frees up what is considering the majority of hunters to have their season within that they feel is best, without any interference from the rest of the state. It frees up the rest of the southern zone (currently Zone 3) to possibly hunt later into December without compromising the bay hunters.


----------



## birdshooter (Jan 7, 2006)

toooo much common sense for those in charge . plus they are affraid the few of us that hunt south west - south central would wipe out all the december mallards in 2 weeks


----------



## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

I have not heard that suggested yet. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a 4th zn is not even an option for 5 years after this summers discussion? 

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

Huntermax-4 said:


> , but a 4th zn is not even an option for 5 years after this summers discussion?
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Correct!!!!


----------



## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

I would be down with that!! It will never happen though. Too much money and politics involved in the Sagnasty and Dirty Detroit areas.


----------



## LoBrass (Oct 16, 2007)

Rob has it right. 

And, I tried my darndest to get the Bay into zone 2. Sorry.

The other fact is that a significant number of guys who hunt the rest of Zone 3, myself included, would not care for that December hunting at the expense of any October days. October for me this year was pretty good.

This is but one opinion.

Bring it up in 4.5 years. Oh, I will tell you that you will NOT be dealing with me in 4.5 years. Lucky me.


----------



## Sander vitreus 01 (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is a thought, all of the SW duck whiners pack your stuff into a box and move to a location that consistently has ducks. I attribute the loss of these 2 days to the SW corners repeated whining on how there aren't any ducks there until after the season. Alas, appease the squeaky whiner wheel and add two days to a novelty late season. In all reality are there ever any real number of ducks there, and that are accessible to all? Comparing to what is a migration route, stop over with countless miles of public hunting on the nasty, dirty east side of the state.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

Sander vitreus 01 said:


> Here is a thought, all of the SW duck whiners pack your stuff into a box and move to a location that consistently has ducks. I attribute the loss of these 2 days to the SW corners repeated whining on how there aren't any ducks there until after the season. Alas, appease the squeaky whiner wheel and add two days to a novelty late season. In all reality are there ever any real number of ducks there, and that are accessible to all? Comparing to what is a migration route, stop over with countless miles of public hunting on the nasty, dirty east side of the state.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


WOW!!!!! Here is a thought. Since you are sick of the SW guys complaining and robbing you of this weekend. Push to move your precious bay into zone2. Use your bay power to lobbey for a fixed set of openers with Zone 1 being the last Saturday of September and the other Zones following on susequent weekends.

Guess what a concept like would most likey have gotten you this year.
Oct 6 - Dec 2 and Dec 15 and 16th!!!!!!! Holy Crap, did you just see what that did. That concept would have allowed you have the 2 days this weekend that you are crying about, and you would have the ability to potentially have a more usuable split.:yikes:

Oh ya, and I bet that the SW guys would be pretty happy with what the Zone 3 dates would most likely be in that plan/concept as well.
Oct 13 - Dec 9 and some sort of 2 day split later.:yikes:


----------



## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

Sander vitreus 01 said:


> Here is a thought, all of the SW duck whiners pack your stuff into a box and move to a location that consistently has ducks. I attribute the loss of these 2 days to the SW corners repeated whining on how there aren't any ducks there until after the season. Alas, appease the squeaky whiner wheel and add two days to a novelty late season. In all reality are there ever any real number of ducks there, and that are accessible to all? Comparing to what is a migration route, stop over with countless miles of public hunting on the nasty, dirty east side of the state.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


There is never the birds in my areas that the east side sees, or the bay. So The whiners are seriously trying to make the best of a bad situation, meaning the diverse weather patterns experienced in MI. Perhaps you should put your money where your mouth is and come on over to SW MI for a season and then you can weigh in with your opinion. Hunt SW MI exclusivley, without help from other hunter invites. Or is Avery not paying you enough on their Pro-Staff to venture out ? I am a Pro-Staffer as well, of my own hunting grounds.


----------



## FullBody (Nov 4, 2008)

Sander vitreus 01 said:


> Here is a thought, all of the SW duck whiners pack your stuff into a box and move to a location that consistently has ducks. I attribute the loss of these 2 days to the SW corners repeated whining on how there aren't any ducks there until after the season. Alas, appease the squeaky whiner wheel and add two days to a novelty late season. In all reality are there ever any real number of ducks there, and that are accessible to all? Comparing to what is a migration route, stop over with countless miles of public hunting on the nasty, dirty east side of the state.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


So your solution to the problem is for everyone who hunts ducks and happens to live in SW michigan to pack it up and move to your backyard and start hunting? Seems logical.


----------



## FullBody (Nov 4, 2008)

goosemanrdk said:


> Guess what a concept like would most likey have gotten you this year.
> Oct 6 - Dec 2 and Dec 15 and 16th!!!!!!! Holy Crap, did you just see what that did. That concept would have allowed you have the 2 days this weekend that you are crying about, and you would have the ability to potentially have a more usuable split.:yikes:


Served


----------



## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

LoBrass said:


> Rob has it right.
> 
> And, I tried my darndest to get the Bay into zone 2. Sorry.
> 
> ...


----------



## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Everytime I read one of these threads I basically killing brain cells that could have been killed by beer.


----------



## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

So what are your thoughts of a 4th zone, being the bay ? You seem to have a lot of input on bay hunting in general, so you obvisouly don't drink a lot of beer.


----------



## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Bellyup said:


> So what are your thoughts of a 4th zone, being the bay ? You seem to have a lot of input on bay hunting in general, so you obvisouly don't drink a lot of beer.


Nice try, but the brain cells needed to answer that qustion were just reserved by the 4 pack of Backwoods Bastard in the fridge.


----------



## BFG (Mar 4, 2005)

Ohio had a similar problem, wherein the majority of the duck hunters lived/hunted in a very small portion of the State. Housed in that portion of the State are several private gun clubs, which also have a say in when the season opens and closes. The result:

A "Lake Erie Marsh Zone", making a third zone for Ohio. We have North, South, and Lake Erie Marsh zones. Interesting thing about the Lake Erie Marsh Zone is that it only extends 200 yards into the lake. Beyond that...you are in the North zone. The marsh zone extends inland to the I-80/I-90 toll road, from Toledo almost to Cleveland. 

Soooo...the marsh guys got their wish and were able to hunta little in October, more in November and some of December, and the big water guys got their wish and can hunt from the end of November right up to Christmas. The group that got screwed, much like the SW MI guys...are those located in the central part of the State, as the North/South boundary was moved, resulting in a lot of southern parts of the North zone being stuck sitting by and watching the first migrations arrive...and leave..un-touched...and now those places are also starting to freeze...and without much moving water in the center of the state, they'll be duckless very, very soon. 

You'll never appease everyone, but Ohio is getting close to getting it right on season dates. They only need to move the North/South border back to where it was, and it will be about as good as it can get for duck hunting in Ohio (not that it gets all that great down here, but it can be good at times). 

In theory, you could make the Saginaw Bay area the same as the Lake Erie Marsh zone, establishing an inland boundary and then a boundary out into the lake. Let the October/November hunters have their days when they want them in that zone, then open (current zone 3) later and run it further into December, which would include the open waters of Saginaw Bay beyond the lake boundary, Lake St. Clair, Lake Huron, and Lake Erie, as well as the rest of zone 3 in SW, SC, and SE Michigan. It would be a roll of the dice at GMA's like Pte. Mouillee...but I'm quite sure that the majority of duck hunters would take that chance on a yearly basis. Open the Saginaw zone the first weekend in October, then follow up with zone 3 some two weeks later and run both straight through for as many days are allowed. Saginaw zone guys are done by the first week of December...zone 3 guys are done right before Christmas. 

Just a thought...the southern hunters and open water hunters will always ask for the latest dates possible..no matter which state in which they live. Just seems right to make an attempt...pretty sure you wouldn't get too many complaints. To be honest..the 4 day mini-split should be very good...as was last years two dayer.


----------



## spartansfan (Nov 8, 2011)

Cmon guys do we have to start this already before the season is even over! We all know it will get beat like a dead horse, over, and over, and over, and over again this summer.


----------



## BAY CREEPER (Jan 11, 2009)

spartansfan said:


> Cmon guys do we have to start this already before the season is even over! We all know it will get beat like a dead horse, over, and over, and over, and over again this summer.


No matter what they set the dates to or how long the season is someone will complain, most likely a lot of people.

They need to accept the fact that you cannot kill a limit every single time out. Enjoy the time you do have because it could very well get worse.

Maybe there are more ducks around after season because they are done getting shot at and pushed around? I think its safe to say every location has more ducks after season if its not froze. So us here at sag bay missed the migration


----------



## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

BAY CREEPER said:


> They need to accept the fact that you cannot kill a limit every single time out.


I'm a dumb ass and killed a full boat limit 16 of 18 trips so far, so I'm sure someone out there went 100%.


----------



## Steverinobambino (Feb 8, 2005)

FullBody said:


> So your solution to the problem is for everyone who hunts ducks and happens to live in SW michigan to pack it up and move to your backyard and start hunting? Seems logical.


Doubt it, I think they would rather sit on here and whine about season dates on yet another thread.


----------



## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

TSS Caddis said:


> by the 4 pack of Backwoods Bastard in the fridge.


PFFFFFF!!!!! Light Weight:cwm27:


----------



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

outside the box alright...

i'm pretty sure all this was discussed last year during 4 zone ideas. JD had some pretty creative zone lines drawn, specially one that had all the lake water/shores in a........../wait for it






















4th zone

thinking outside the box is fun but thats not what you need right now. its 4.5 years away, ship has sailed. you need to think inside the box-o-seasons and get them to delay a week or 2. then you might have something.


----------



## Timber (Jan 1, 2009)

TSS Caddis said:


> Nice try, but the brain cells needed to answer that qustion were just reserved by the 4 pack of Backwoods Bastard in the fridge.[/
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
> Wrong post.


----------



## Timber (Jan 1, 2009)

TSS Caddis said:


> I'm a dumb ass and killed a full boat limit 16 of 18 trips so far, so I'm sure someone out there went 100%.


Yah but you cheat. Lol just joking.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

TSS Caddis said:


> Nice try, but the brain cells needed to answer that qustion were just reserved by the 4 pack of Backwoods Bastard in the fridge.


Man, as much as I LOVE Founders, I did not care for that concoction. Sitting here drinking a 4 pack of old curmudgeon ale....Yum!

Sorry, carry on.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

Steverinobambino said:


> Doubt it, I think they would rather sit on here and whine about season dates on yet another thread.


Huh. Let's go Fullbody. Maybe we can setup my camper in there backyard all next season. Just follow them out and downwind them. 

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Spartan_dude (Sep 9, 2011)

I hunt in and/or around the bay. Personally I'd like to hunt later. Last weekend I was finally getting some field mallards.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Steverinobambino (Feb 8, 2005)

Huntermax-4 said:


> Huh. Let's go Fullbody. Maybe we can setup my camper in there backyard all next season. Just follow them out and downwind them.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Sorry to wander in and fart during your group therapy session. Whatever eases the pain....


----------



## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

Spartan_dude said:


> I hunt in and/or around the bay. Personally I'd like to hunt later. Last weekend I was finally getting some field mallards.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Cool, how many buddies do you have that feel the same way? Just trying to figure out how many more dollar bills I can add towards my take a day off from work fund. I think through these threads I am getting close to having another day off.:lol:


----------



## docowens (Feb 24, 2009)

I like beer


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

Timber said:


> Yah but you cheat. Lol just joking.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Well, you're kind of right. Sea duck limits is half cheating cuz they're only half as smart as a park duck. Right Gene? 

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## LoBrass (Oct 16, 2007)

:banghead3

Who has MY beer?

TSS, can I come along someday? I'll bring some KILLER smoked goose!!:help:






(I am REALLY looking forward to the day that I do not have to pay attention to this thread)


----------



## adam bomb (Feb 27, 2006)

Way too many birds on the bay to be in zone 2. But i agree, wish the season was gonna go a bit longer. But, it is what it is, gonna take the time i can get and enjoy it.


----------



## Zeboy (Oct 4, 2002)

This gets beat to death every year. It simply amazes me that this situation can't get resolved. We are willing to give the Saginaw Bay guys WHATEVER dates they want. Just move to zone 2 so that the areas South of you can have a later season.

How can anyone look at a map of Michigan, and with a straight face, make the argument that Saginaw Bay is in the bottom 1/3 of the state???


----------



## LakeEffectMDHA (Dec 15, 2011)

TSS Caddis said:


> Nice try, but the brain cells needed to answer that qustion were just reserved by the 4 pack of Backwoods Bastard in the fridge.


A 4 pack of 11% abv beer can bring a giant to his knees  maybe we should have a season date discussion at founders and have some on draft, we may not determine anything but it could be more fun than a monkey knife fight


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## jehler (Jul 18, 2011)

screw the split, give us a west coast season. our weather/migration is to erratic for splits we need a longer season.... wonder when the dnr winterizes their boats?

never had backwoods bastard, got to be better than the pandomonium and hooma loopa in my garage right now


----------



## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> outside the box alright...
> 
> i'm pretty sure all this was discussed last year during 4 zone ideas. JD had some pretty creative zone lines drawn, specially one that had all the lake water/shores in a........../wait for it
> 
> ...


Man, I can't win with you, you tell me and everyone on here to think outside the box, I do, post it, and now you tell me to think inside the box... .. I just don't recall it being discussed on here, and asked to be corrected if I was wrong, thanks for pointing that out so eloquently. 

Trying to be serious here, as I thought it was a great idea that would not make compromising so tough to swallow in the SW areas. But then we drink better beer than that swamp ale Backwoods Boyz or whatever it is TSS mentioned. 

I realize it is 4.5 years off now, and that sucks. And MI wonders why participation is declining, and the economy is failing, jobs are leaving.... look at the burocrats and the processes in place to change anything. 

Since the serious killers on the big water and the leaders won't answer the questions I am assuming this is too good of an idea for them to admit I thought about it and posted it. 16 out of 18 trips is a good stat. I wouldn't mention something like that myself, as I would think some would really try to follow and learn your spots. Must be the backwoods swamp beer and the brain cells theory.


----------



## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Has anybody ever thought of including more then just the U.P. in zone 1??? Has it ever even been considered to move the boundary lines??? Like someone said, how the hell can you say Sag. bay is in the bottom 1/3 of the state?? Why must we have zones open up 1 week apart? When you include a split can you dictate a split for each zone? Like for example can zone 3 have a 10 day split, while zone 1 only has a 2 day split?


----------



## LoBrass (Oct 16, 2007)

craigrh13 said:


> Has anybody ever thought of including more then just the U.P. in zone 1??? Has it ever even been considered to move the boundary lines??? Like someone said, how the hell can you say Sag. bay is in the bottom 1/3 of the state?? Why must we have zones open up 1 week apart? When you include a split can you dictate a split for each zone? Like for example can zone 3 have a 10 day split, while zone 1 only has a 2 day split?


Yes. Feds only allow this every 5 years at best. They have also delayed this 5 year cycle before and it would not surprise me if they did so again. 5 years is the minimum we are locked into the current zone configuration.

Yes. The March CWAC meeting found us (CWAC) recommending no change. It was NOT unanimous.

Don't know but I look at it and think it belongs in Zone 2.

1 Week between starts is a pretty good variant zone to zone. There is no "rule" on this though.

Yes, splits for any zone can be drafted however the Waterfowl Workgroup writes up the options, the CWAC then votes to represent the citizens of the state to provide recommendations as an advisory role and the NRC ultimately decides to approve the recommendations.

Good questions.


----------



## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Bellyup said:


> I realize it is 4.5 years off now, and that sucks. And MI wonders why participation is declining.
> .


Just think how fast it would be declining if the most used waterfowl area in the state didn't get dates that suited it.


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk


----------

