# For all QDMA.org forum members



## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

About 2 weeks ago the first green appeared on the forest floor. You could literally drive from where I work here with a 180" snowfall average, to about 30 miles northeast where they average 300"+, and see in the woods where the ground was still cold enough to pass a line where it was green about 15-20 miles away, and then nothing. The amount of snowfall makes that much of a difference even just staying within our own county.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Funny how this weather discussion just points out what we've all discussed in many posts about the regional differences in habitat, food availability, herd health, etc. So when we discuss statewide AR's or other regulations, we all need to remember that Michigan is a very large and diverse state when it comes to weather conditions, habitat and food types/supplies, etc. Statewide regulations may not ever be appropriate here, much like Michigan regulations may not be appropriate in the mid-south where BSK is. Sorry I got off the subject, but your back and forth discussion of the weather in GR made me think about this. Now back to the subject......


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## Swamp Ghost (Feb 5, 2003)

just ducky said:


> Funny how this weather discussion just points out what we've all discussed in many posts about the regional differences in habitat, food availability, herd health, etc. So when we discuss statewide AR's or other regulations, we all need to remember that Michigan is a very large and diverse state when it comes to weather conditions, habitat and food types/supplies, etc. Statewide regulations may not ever be appropriate here, much like Michigan regulations may not be appropriate in the mid-south where BSK is. Sorry I got off the subject, but your back and forth discussion of the weather in GR made me think about this. Now back to the subject......


It's appears that we already have statewide regulations, yet those that oppose progressive deer management don't seem to mind or question their appropriateness .  I wonder why? I have posted the AR according to eco-region to achieve QDM that was composed by Bill Moritz, but I guess the data used to compose it wasn't valid..........


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## BSK (Apr 10, 2004)

300+ inches?! Kinda makes our average 7 inches of snow a year look pretty unwinter-like, doesn't it! 


just ducky,

Excellent point. There *are* major climatic/habitat differences across very short geographic distances. And that is why good deer management is always site specific. Yet as Swamp Ghost accurately pointed out, state agencies have been using "one size fits all" management practices for decades, and in some states nearly a century. Makes you kind of wonder about those management practices' effectiveness! Not that those practices were "bad", just not very effective. But in their defense, *NO* one-size-fits-all management program can possibly be effective across varying landscapes and climates.


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## Swamp Ghost (Feb 5, 2003)

BSK said:


> that is why good deer management is always site specific...... Not that those practices were "bad", just not very effective. But in their defense, *NO* one-size-fits-all management program can possibly be effective across varying landscapes and climates.


Couldn't agree more. Those that support the QDM initiatives in this state aren't asking for a blanket statewide policy.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Very good points, and you're right that the current regs are statewide in some respects. Antlerless quotas were supposedly regionally determined, or at least by DMU. Whether these numbers truly had any basis in science is anyone's guess. Swamp Ghost - I guess I was referring to what some have proposed on this page about AR's, Antlerless regs, etc. Some have said we should have an AR of 3 on a side, or 4 on a side, statewide. That's what I was getting at when I referred to statewide regs. But let's get off this subject before we completely steer this thread in another direction...that wasn't my intent guys...sorry


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## BSK (Apr 10, 2004)

You make very valid points Just Ducky. As I've said many times, I'm not a fan of antler _point_ restrictions. In most areas antler points are not a good indicator of deer age. But that doesn't mean some type of antler restriction won't work, but I question the value of "blanket" restrictions of any kind. However, I have seen antler restrictions work well when good data is available to create those restrictions.

The famous Dooley County, GA experiment is a case in point. The program was designed by a Univ. of GA graduate student. He first collected a great deal of data from harvested bucks from the county, collecting every antler measurement he could think of. Then he looked for the characteristics that best described age while also being easily field-judged. It turned out--_for that area_--antler spread was a good indicator of age (separating young bucks from older bucks). The results of the Dooley County experiment were very good, but primarily because such care had been taken in developing the AR. *Plus* he had good support from landowners and hunters in the area who were willing to give the experiment a try (67% approval by both landowners and local hunters).


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

We've had 60% average approval rate across the entire state and for example, a 3-point on a side rule in the U.P. here protects over 80% of the yearling age class.....94% last year in the Rock area DMU!....what's not to love?!?


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## BSK (Apr 10, 2004)

*...what's not to love?!?*

I'm sure you'll get a whole chorus of answers for what's not to love!


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

"I'm sure you'll get a whole chorus of answers for what's not to love!"

Hard to imagine.... :lol: I'll just keep my mouth shut and jump on back over to the habitat section.


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## BSK (Apr 10, 2004)

Just made my flight reservations. Arrive Thursday mid-day and fly out Sunday morning. Looking forward to seeing Grand Rapids. I haven't been there in 20 years.


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## Buckacc (May 19, 2002)

If I don't have to work Saturday. I will be there.


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