# Fox river put and take stream?...nah



## mike k (Feb 18, 2004)

No offense that's hard to believe because the water quality is so good. I was really impressed with the stream I just didn't do well. I believe worm dunkers are probably harming the fishery, at least from what I saw. I saw the worm boys using bellyboats. Maybe the DNR needs to put special restrictions on parts of the stream. I know you can't ban the worm guys because it's somewhat of a tradition, just inact some special rules to protect the resource. Anyway adios....


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## trout (Jan 17, 2000)

Mike,
You can't be serious to think worm dunkers harm a fishery.
As to the belly boats, let me clue you in on a fact.
People floating a river do less damage than foot waders.
What!!!!!! you say?
Wade fishermen destroy turtle nests on sandy bars and gravel spawning redds.
As to the mortality rates , there are studies that show C&R may be more fatal than some may think.
Check out the science in the issue, then re-think before you single out a fishing method.
Until then perhaps we all should find a way to accept ones choice of tackle while fishing.
As long as people don't litter, it doesn't matter what gear they use.


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## mondrella (Dec 27, 2001)

This is just my opinion that it has become a put and take stream. In 2003 the DNR planted roughly 6000 brook trout of close to or of legal length. I know it has fantastic water quality to grow trout. I have fished the Fox for a long time. I have seen the pressure increase steadly for some time. Early season I can easily catch 25 to 30 fish a day. Come Sept. There are much fewer fish and one has to really work to catch 10. Any stream that has 6000 plus fish planted just in 2003 of that size is seeing some pressure. Do the math and its 1200 limits. There is a saying that 10% of fisherman catch 90% of the fish. I have no problem with the need to plant it to continue the fishery. I know there are still some big trout that call the river home. There however is not enough to sustain the fishery or our fishery bioligist would not be planting fish. There are many more places in the UP that hold better #'s of big fish. 
As for the bait fisherman causing all the harm I greatly have to disagree. I have caught many brookies from the fox with deep placed worm hooks where the Angler has cut the line. I have seen just as many flyfisherman hurt a river. Having to have a photo. It Can cause just as much harm as throwing the fish on ice. I may get flamed for that comment and so be it. ( I have broad shoulders)
As for special regs I would have to know exactly what you are talking about. I really have questions that only time will tell about no kill sections of river. ( I do have a hypothesis)


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

Well said trout!


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

Mike,
Welcome to Michigan-Sportsman.com. Visit us often and share your experiences and knowledge.

You unwittingly opened a "can of worms" (pun intended) with you comment about special regs on streams. We haven't seen that topic mentioned in here for several months. Don't be surprised if your comments draws some responses that are both passionately for and stridently against what you suggest. If you haven't already, you may want to develop a thick skin in short order........LOL! Actually I'm saying this in 1/2 jest, but only 1/2.

Trout, who posted above, has a very entertaining tale about fishing the Fox two summers ago with another member of this site. Have you ever heard of a trout fisherman shooting a tree with a shotgun? Ask him about it!!!..............LOL!

The East Branch of the Fox R. has a 10" size limit on brook trout and the rest of the system has a 7", which does seem rather silly as many of the trout planted are near or at the 7" inch mark. They are generally planted in April, making them vulnerable to trout anglers after the season opens at the end of the month.

The 10" size limit will protect most of the planters, but, obviously, the lower size limit will not. Why anyone would keep a 7" planted brook trout is beyond my means of comprehension. They do not eat like a native trout, or a planter that has been in the stream for several months.

It would seem to be better if the brookies, and browns, were planted in September when fishing pressure eases. Their survival rate would be much better.


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## mike k (Feb 18, 2004)

I really did open up a can of worms. I really don't have anything against worm-dunkers or anyone else as long as they respect the resource. I didn't mean to open up the old Fly VS Bait debate I should have been more carefull.


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

Mike,
Don't worry about it. Actually the thread is going along fairly well, but I can tell you that in the past some emotions wree stirred on both sides of the issue.

Just keep coming in and sharing your stuff and thoughts, responding to others who do so.

Again, welcome to the site and it is our hope that you visits will be enlightening to both you and those of us who read your posts.


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## mondrella (Dec 27, 2001)

Mike,
I did not take your comments totally in that way. What kind of special regs are you talking about? Lets discuss the issue a little further we still have 61 days till the opener.  

Whit has put forth a very good idea. It would make those fish fit to eat. To me a freshly planted trout is one of the poorest fish on the plate. A later plant may be benificial to the river in the long run. I would think the DNR would want to hold onto the mature fish they have released in the past. I believe 2003 was one of the first years in a long time they did not release fish around the 14" mark. Then again a summer of trout chow in a hatchery maybe they all would be that size.


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## mike k (Feb 18, 2004)

Not really sure about what kind of special regs would help the Fox, maybe size limits,lowering the limit or both. Possibly even no-kill areas. I am not a biologist so it's very difficult for me to know. What i do know is the water quality of this river is fantastic. There are large Brookies in the sysyem, I just believe they get pounded a little to hard. There are ways to turn this system around if the DNR and public really want to. I still think it is a decent fishery though. As I said I did very well on the East branch.


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## AceMcbanon (Apr 2, 2003)

I get quite a lot of fish in may and a lot in late august and september on the fox. It's overfished in certain areas but there is a lot of natural reproduction. As to people keeping 7 inch brookies it's beyond me to. 5 make a snack at that size, why not let them get a bit bigger. Anyway there are plenty of other places to get nice sized brookies, even creeks that look more like ditches can produce 10+ inches.


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## mondrella (Dec 27, 2001)

Mike, 
I like your first Ideas. I am not to sure about No kill as a long term benifit. We still are in our infancy in other areas in the state. Right now some of your best number days will come from No kill areas. There also is some very large fish showing up at this time. I think it may be a good short term boost to the river but as time goes by the likelyhood of a overpopulation increases. Thus leading to slower growth rates. I know of a river where there was natural reproduction of bows along with small plants. This river very few fish of 14" made it through the summer. Those fish would grow at incredible rates. By the spring of the next year the fish that survived the summer would be very close to 18". The DNR started planting high numbers of trout and those same fish that carried over averaged 16". With the increased numbers of fish I think there was a little to much competion for food slowing growth. The E. fox is a totally different animal there is very limited access due to most of the land being on private property. The fox flows through public land. I agree it sees to much pressure in parts. 

As for natural reproduction it is there. The real issue is the number of trout left in the river to spawn come the fall.


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