# Separate Baiting and Dog Seasons



## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

I finally drew a bear tag this year after applying unsuccessfully for 11 years. I drew the last season, and unfortunately, all my active baiting sites were ruined by hound hunters who started their dogs on my baits. In the area where I hunted, the hound hunters were everywhere. They even hunted areas where there were small parcels of public lands mixed with mostly private holdings leaving bait hunts with virtually no place to go for a quality hunt. I firmly believe that there should be two seasons for bear hunter in Michigan. A September season for bait hunters and then a October season for dog chasers. This would greatly reduce conflicts and provide better hunting for everybody, accept of course those unethical hunters who start there dogs on other hunters' baits. Let me know what you think and why.


----------



## mich buckmaster (Nov 20, 2001)

I shot a bear during the dog season two years ago and I waited 6 years to get that permit. Anyhow, I had dog hunters all over our baits too. I just got lucky on the first day to get mine. I found some tricks to use though, like put your bait sites near highways and roads. Those dog hunters dont want their $10,000 dogs to get hit by a car. I also think putting your baits by private land is also a good way to keep the dogs off your baits. anyhow I am for a September bait hunt with no dogs.


----------



## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Probably the guys with dogs will agree, except dogs in Sept. and bait in Oct. Would you go along with that ?

L & O


----------



## Guest (Dec 6, 2001)

Simple, just ban the dog part of it all together! 
It's not hunting, hunters have no directed control over where those dogs go. Now, their ruining hunts for even other bear hunters. What good it!


----------



## NEMichsportsman (Jul 3, 2001)

Although I dont care for it as a matter of personal choice,I am not against dog hunting, as I have said before. I do think that it would make good sense to have separate seasons. This would keep both happy.

jp


----------



## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

It would make most sence to have bait hunters go first because if the season started during September for baiting, then the baiters could pre-bait during August. Also, bears bait the best when its warmer like during September. Dogs run better when it's colder, like during October. Also, there are far more bear hunters that use bait in michigan than those that use dogs, which another strong reason to give bait hunters the first season.

Even though my odds of getting drawn will be slim, until the DNR splits up the bait and dog hunters, I will only apply for the first season becuase the dog hunters have ruined the second and third seasons in my area. The dog hunters will never want to change the current seasons because they have created high odds for themselves of getting drawn every year because they have driven all the bait hunters into the first season for the drawing.


----------



## David G Duncan (Mar 26, 2000)

I believe that the sport of bear hunting with dogs has a lot to do with the fact that we have a increasing bear population. They definitely need bears in the woods to be able to pursue their sport.

Also, I believe that the dog hunters have a distinct advantage over bait hunters. Therefore, based on my personal experience, where both my wife and I had permits two years ago, I can comment as follows.

We were successful in baiting in bears at two locations, and my wife even got a shot at a bear, even though the hounds were running the bears in all directions. I think we were luck to have found a spot that the dog hunters had over looked.

My suggestion to the DNR would be to, at least, open an archery bear season before the dog season, so those of us that would like to take a bear with a bow could have a fair chance.


----------



## CoYoTe-KiLLeR (Jan 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Liver and Onions _
> *Probably the guys with dogs will agree, except dogs in Sept. and bait in Oct. Would you go along with that ?
> 
> L & O *



There is a seaon for hunting bear with hounds, If any of you have ever hunted bear with hounds it is extreamly exciting. ya cant knock them it is a part of hunting. You can only hunt Bear with hounds after the fist season there is dates for the hound hunts just check out the season booklet. If any bear hunters dont want to be destirbed the put in for the first season.


----------



## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

> _Originally posted by CoYoTe-KiLLeR _
> *
> 
> 
> You can only hunt Bear with hounds after the fist season there is dates for the hound hunts just check out the season booklet. If any bear hunters dont want to be destirbed the put in for the first season. *


I have hunted using dogs before and do agree that it is a fun sport. I have also hunted over bait and find this type of hunting equally as exciting.

Bait hunters in the U.P. only get a four day reprieve from the dog hunters. The first season starts on Sept. 10, and dog hunters can start on Sept. 14. With the vast majority of bear hunters using bait, why then do dog hunters have 42 days worth of hunting while bait hunters only get a pathetic 4 days? 

The dog hunters will never want to change the current seasons because they have created high odds for themselves of getting drawn every year because they have driven all the bait hunters into the first season for the drawing. It is unfair, biased and needs to be changed. Perhaps dog hunters should get the 4 day season, how would dog hunters feel about having things reversed? They probably wouldn't like it very much.


----------



## mich buckmaster (Nov 20, 2001)

Well said TS


----------



## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

> _Originally posted by trout _
> *I agree a seperate season is warranted and perhaps is in place now. *


The current four-day reprieve that bait hunters get from the houndsmen is hardly a separate season; it's a totally unfair situation that needs to be remedied. I believe that giving dog and bait hunters fair and separate seasons would actually unit all bear hunters, because the two are not compatible together. Least we not forget that a few slob houndsmen nearly cost all bear hunters our very sport a few years back. If it wasn't for the fact that the anti-hunters included baiting with dog hunting in their ballot initiative, I'm sure that dog hunters wouldn't even be able to run bears to this day. Bear dog owners are typically very serious about their sport and therefore they are organized and very influential in the bear hunting fraternity and its politics and the law making process. Even though bait hunters represent the vast majority of Michigan's bear hunters; they are treated like used toilet paper by the seasons and permit allocation process.


----------



## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Splitshot _
> *Trophy Specialist get me an e-mail address of the person who has some influence on this matter and I will write a letter. *


Don't get me wrong, I am not against bear hunting with dogs at all. I just think there should be separate seasons for each method. Following are some email addresses, but keep in mind that the Natural Resources Commission ultimately decides these issues: 

Here's the email for the Natural Resources Commission: [email protected]
Here's the email for the DNR Wildlife Division: [email protected]
Here's the email for DNR suggestions: [email protected]


----------



## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

> _Originally posted by trout _
> *Could you offer some idea as to the type of dates and times you believe we would need?
> *


It would make the most sense to restrict bear houndsmen to the month of October, while the rest of the bear hunters would hunt during September. Reasons being: Bears are drawn to bait better during warm weather, typical in September and dogs run better during cooler weather typical in October. Giving bait hunters the first season would allow for undisturbed prebaiting and would give houndsmen lots of bait sites to start their dogs on without impacting those bait hunters. Having four separate one week hunt periods during September would help spread out the hunting pressure among the majority of bear hunters, the baiters. Ideally, pre-baiting would begin in Aug. and the bait hunting seasons would start at the beginning of September. Dog hunters would have one season during all of October giving them a long period to run their dogs and enjoy their hunts to the fullest. The DNR keeps statistics on success rates and what methods bear hunters use from year to year. They also require a mandatory registration of all bears killed. It would be great to see the October season reserved strictly for houndsmen and allow it to be an open season with no permit drawings. Once a quota of bears are killed for the season in a particular management unit, then houndsmen can no longer kill any more bears there, however they may still run their dogs if they choose in the closed unit or hunt elsewhere. If not enough bears are killed by the end of October, dog hunters could also be given a bonus season during early November to get the job done. This would ensure that all dog hunters would have a chance to hunt every year and would also let the DNR better control bear numbers in problem areas. It would be a win-win situation for all bear hunters.


----------



## Big Game (Feb 7, 2002)

In reply to the following:

"Simple, just ban the dog part of it all together! 
It's not hunting, hunters have no directed control over where those dogs go. Now, their ruining hunts for even other bear hunters. What good it!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry Jimbos but if it weren't for us hound hunters you would not have a bear season at all. Back in 95 & 96 the hound hunters were responsible for a great deal of winning at the polls against the Anti's. I don't wish to make an enemy here but I would like to speak my mind. First let me say that I have hunted both with bait and hounds and I do agree that we need seperate seasons. During the times when I have hunted over bait I never had any problems with hound hunters. In fact the hound hunters in my area made sure to stay away from bait when they were made aware of it being there. As far as hound hunting not being a sport - please try it. You can't knock it if you haven't tried it. In fact it is more work than baiting. I would suggest getting a copy of "Understanding Michigan Black Bears" it is very informative in regard to both bait and hounds. As far as hounds being more effective check your bear guide, you will see that bait hunters take more % of bear than hound hunters. This issue is one that needs looked at closely and is one that I have thought about bringing up at a Michigan Bear Hunters Assoc. meeting of which I am a member of. Please we cant afford to fight amongst the ranks with this issue. The next time the anti's attack we may not be as successful. If they see us squabbling they will attack. 

Hey Jimbos I don't mean to upset you it just bothered me when you attacked my hunting style. I would like to personally invite you to tag along on a hunt behind hounds. I have no hard feelings and hope you don't either.

Thanks 
Big Game
http://members.fortunecity.com/biggamekennels/


----------



## Guest (Apr 4, 2002)

Why did this thread pop up? There's no new posts.

Big Game, out of my respect for you, i'll refrain from expressing any more opinions on this subject. Your a good person, and i'm sure respect others rights.

Plus I was very wrong to lump all hound hunters together. I just know what i've seen, and didn't like it.


----------



## Big Game (Feb 7, 2002)

Not a problem Jimbos - I can see where you are coming from. This actually was the first post that I replied to when I first signed up. I will admit I may have seemed harsh at the time. What you described is definately a problem in the hound world. I feel we as houndsman need to go the extra mile and make sure it is portrayed as a sport and not just a 10 mile run across private land and hopefully you may get a glimpse of the animal you are chasing. I try to run areas that is state land and big in size so as to not run on private land. I respect your opinion and look forward to meeting you this spring when your up.

Your Friend
Big Game


----------



## Guest (Apr 5, 2002)

"I feel we as houndsman need to go the extra mile and make sure it is portrayed as a sport and not just a 10 mile run across private land and hopefully you may get a glimpse of the animal you are chasing"

You've done that and more. Your a credit to the sport.


----------



## Robert W. McCoy Jr (Jan 18, 2002)

I have been hunting with dogs almost my hole life. Mostly beagles on hare or cottontails but I have had a chance to watch bear dogs in action. I have also done some **** hunting. These are very fun sport's most of the time the animal is never harmed, "which I don't think was mentioned yet". I also feal that we as hunters should never try to or even mention trying to ban another type of hunting just because we are not interrested in doing it. Those dogs hunters contribute thousands of dollers back into the efferts of conservation. Not to metion the countless other ways they help sportsman by using there bear dogs to kill coyoties and bobcat to keep our predater level in check. 

One last thing. Never say we have no controll over our hounds.
I along with alot of my fellow houndsman always have controll of my hounds. Some times it may appier they are running wild but they are not. We use shock collars & tracking collars and Moterolla's to keep track at all times. The actions of some do not reflect the actions of us all. Some of the dog bear hunters may have interrupted a bear hunt for some of you but that is no need to outlaw the sport. 

Next time you draw a permit ask around in your area try to find out who is running bear with hound's then ask them for advice on where you might set up a pile without being disturbed. I know they have spots wear the bear are but they can't or won't run there dog's there. 

I think we should have a sepperate season for baiting to help end conflicts.

Rob


----------



## Big Game (Feb 7, 2002)

Well said and right on target.


----------



## bearstretch (Apr 17, 2002)

Howdy. Personnally, our group runs hounds during each and every bear season and have done so ever since the times of Carl Johnson, known as the first bear hunter, in which both of my grandpa's as well as some of the guys that I hunt with now hunted with. Now we are probably three generations down from them times and we still haven't changed our ways. We are good hunters I would say and do everything we can to keep bear hunting alive, and not just here in Michigan. Every year we work around bait hunters as to try and not interupt their hunts. We quit when training season when we are supposed to, and don't start hunting until the 15th of September. Those 5 days prior, at least where I hunt, baithunters have the area to themselves and are very successful. They usually register 30% or so of that bears taken all season there within those first 5 days, and continue to register them throughout season. There have been multiple occasions where sometimes a hunter that hunts over bait can't seem to find their bear, and we have brought our dogs out to help them find it. Each year we have swim trials and that sort of thing for the Michgan Bear Hunters Ass. held at the Crump Fox Club to raise money for the association to help fight for ALL of our bear hunting rights, and there are many others that do the same or similar. In my opinion, at least where I am fortunate enough to hunt with the people I do, us hunters are able to work together and cooperate with one another and everything works out. I think personnaly, from my experience and standpoint that things are ok the way they are. Just my opinion, take it for what it's worth. Thanks.

Stretch


----------

