# Thrill Bobbers and Gravel



## esox master (Sep 9, 2003)

On the PM Sunday I watched a guide and two clients take a break from fishing steelhead and fish for kings on the gravel. They were using spey rods and roll casting what looked like thrill bobbers. They hooked four kings in the chops in 15 minutes and left to continue steelhead fishing. I was mad because I never got to ask the guide what the heck he was doing. This seems like an amazing way not to foul hook fish. So my question is does anyone know what this setup is called or how to rig it?


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## HATCHBOMB (Oct 4, 2001)

It's called indicator fishing, and it seems to have less foul hookups due to the fact that the line hangs more at a 90 degree angle down from the float, instead of the line angling down towards the fish and swinging into them...

HATCHBOMB


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## esox master (Sep 9, 2003)

I do not believe it was indicator fishing because in my past experiences indi fishing I didnt think it was possible to indicator fish in a foot of water with such a long leader. Though maybe the thrill was just a strike indicator and they were using bead head nymphs or eggs though it seems like they would still foul hook a few.


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## Apache Trout (Feb 5, 2002)

I am pretty sure the guide was using his indicator rig to line the spawning salmon. Trust me on this, its easy to line spawning fish with an indicator rig -the key is to have long leaders. I don't salmon fish anymore but I would always love to take newbie fishing friends and line spawning fish - my friends always would think the salmon ate my offering. You can even get head shakers but the hook will be on the outside of the mouth nearly every time. Its an easy way for a guide to get a client into a reasonable amount of fish numbers but its just as unethical as the snagger with a long yellow rod an 3 oz of lead. Only difference is the Spey rod ran at least $500.


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## Hex4steel (Jun 22, 2001)

I'm with apache trout here. I rarely C&D with my fly rod. I usually run an indicator and with most of my experiences fishing salmon on redds, Ive hooked mostly in the mouth, but upon landing them they are lined. I can see where the guides would be doing this to make a a client have fun with a "boring" search of fall steelies.(Or at least it would be boring to the client, who pays for his success rate) The only salmon ill actually see move out of the way typically to grab a fly are cohos. Kings just really dont give a crap once they are in the river.


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## Rat Fink (Feb 20, 2001)

What are Thrill bobbers? :lol: 



I assume you are speaking of Thill strike indicators?


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## kingwilly (Dec 18, 2002)

I want to know too!!!

KW


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## Sawcat (Apr 5, 2003)

Thill is just a brand name, they make a lot of specialty floats. I believe the ones being referenced here are the small or medium egg shaped slip floats. They are just a little larger than your typical indicator float and therefore can float larger nymphs etc. MAny ice fishermen use these as well.


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## DryFly (Jun 4, 2001)

Ray has a hand out on the rigging you are talking about. It is a plastic float and this system can be used with fly rods not just Spey rods. 

I certainly can not speak for all guides but I do know quite a few around the Wellston and Baldwin area and these guys are true sports people. The guys that I know in no way would teach or allow their clients to fish unethically like lining fish.


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## DryFly (Jun 4, 2001)

AThill float becomes a Thrill float if it is standing on end and you sit on it.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

They're the Thill ice-n-fly bobber. You want either the #3 or #4 for steel or salmon. I buy them buy the hundreds for the store. The #1 and #2 are great sellers for trout indy's.
[email protected] has a really good explaination on the fishbaldwin.com site. Here's part of it...
http://www.fishbaldwin.com/StevesExplanation/steves_explanation.cfm

Floating Lines & Indicators, The Way I See It:

Again, as in the chuck-n-duck piece, I certainly can't write the book that would be required to cover everything from the get go (At least not right now.) so I'll assume that most of you interested in this already know the basics of dry fly fishing. For those of you that don't, I invite you to take a guided trip with emphasis on learning, or even better, sign up for one of our fly fishing schools.

Lets start with the rig from the floating line, but first a brief note on the rod. Simple, a longer rod works better. A longer rod will give you more line control for this type of fishing, mending, etc... that is why a lot of folks have gone to spey rods even on the smaller rivers for this method. I find that a nine and a half foot rod is fine for a river like the PM and is a good all around rod for many other applications as well. A stiffer rod is also better for most folks. Experienced fly fishers will find these turn over the rig easier, mend easier, etc... Less experienced anglers may want to stick with a moderate action rod so that they can get a better feel of the rod loading.

The Floating Line: This is where a lot of folks have different ideas; I'll just give you mine. Attach your floating line to the backing by way of an Albright or nail knot. For "indy" fishing I like to over line my rod by at least one and sometimes two line weights depending on the stiffness of the rod. (Soft action, one line weight. Fast action, two.) If your fishing primarily or exclusively smaller waters like the PM, Little Manistee, etc... You'll likely want to go with a double taper or the Salmon Steelhead tapered lines mentioned below here. (Something that will roll cast easy and allows you to throw a hard mend.) Those of you that are fishing primarily the bigger waters like the Big M, Muskegon, etc. Will more than likely want to go with a weight forward. I recommend a long belly fly line here so that you can still roll cast and mend hard with relative ease, but have the ability to make long cast as well. SA, Rio, and several other companies make those Steelhead and Salmon taper lines that are just the ticket.

The leader: I attach this to the fly line with a good old nail knot directly, but a loop-to-loop connection will work fine as well. The length of the leader (not tippet) is determined by the depths of water you mostly fish (For most sections of the PM, I run about nine foot.) and while I still prefer a good old-fashioned tapered leader to help in the turning over process, it is not entirely necessary. A straight section of something in the 12lb range will work because a small amount of shot will be applied to the end of the leader and the fly line should roll this out.

The indicator: (Or, bobber if you will... After all, that's what it is.) I've seen everything from a big steelhead Carlisle bobber to the pinch on foam type used here. A member of TSS turned me on to the Thill Ice-n-fly bobbers a good while ago and I haven't gone back. Whatever bobber you use, you will want to be able to adjust it up and down your leader. Many folks will go with the sliding type (like the thill) and use a toothpick to set the depth. A fellow guide that some of you know by the name of Tommy Lynch taught me a trick with a rubber band some time ago that I love. It holds very well and can be simply slid to the desired depth with some force. This is a little too involved to explain without actually showing, so the best I can do is to promises to share if you run into me, or I'm sure Tommy would be glad to help if you run into him. Ask around a bit also, I'll bet it's caught on. The size of the indicator is determined by the amount of shot needed in the location you're fishing. (Often, a lot less shot than most think...) You'll want the bobber to go down easy!

The tippet: This is the section of line that will actually present your fly to the fish. I like to attach the tippet to the leader by way of a double surgeons knot if I'm using split shot or I'll use a small barrel swivel if I'm using hollow lead. The double surgeon is a great knot for tying lines together that sometimes have great differences in diameter. It also creates somewhat of an L shape kink in the line that I like for putting the fly downstream horizontally of the knot and split shot. The length of tippet is determined by the conditions your fishing in, but for one fly three and a half to four feet is a good general rule. I almost never run two flies when indicator fishing, but when I do, I go around three feet to the first and another foot and a half to two feet to the second. As a side note I will mention that anytime your indicator fishing your loops should be exaggerated as much as conditions will allow. (Wider loops not tighter loops.) This will help keep your leader, shot, tippet and fly from getting tangled while casting as they often do when any weight is above the lighter last object. This rule becomes very important when fishing two flies...

Presentation:

This would require another book with lots of illustrations to explain properly, but I'll sum it up as best I can rather briefly. #1. Fish the indicator just as you would most dry flies! That sounds easy, and it is if you're a dry fly fisherperson. (Drag free drifts, mending, etc... it's all done the same.) #2. Adjust the indicator on your leader so that you're shot rides just above the bottom only touching occasionally or so that your fly is presented to the fishes level when suspended. #3. Often times it is almost impossible to get a drift in close enough to the bank or other structure on the first cast without hitting the bank its self, limbs or other obstructions. Here is a valuable trick to learn and practice. After putting you're cast in as close as you can to the target area, allow a brief moment for the shot and fly to sink just a bit, then roll cast you're indicator to the desired drift with just enough force to get it there, but no so much as to pull the fly and shot clear of the water. Mend immediately and the shot will swing under the indicators position giving you the desired current seam.

Indicator fishing is fast becoming the preferred "Big Fish" method among many fly anglers here in the Midwest. It accomplishes the goal in "most" situations of getting the fly down fast enough and yet allows for a more "traditional" style of casting and presentation verses the Chuck-n-duck. It is my contention that in order to be as successful as possible (Success being defined here as catching more fish.) on our rivers, an angler should master both techniques, keep both always available and use the one that suits the situation at hand best!
Tight Lines All!
Steve


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## DryFly (Jun 4, 2001)

My post should have said that this information is available and can be explained in detail by visiting the more popular and "user friendly" fly shops in north west Michigan The Fly Shop at BBT Baldwin and Schmidts Outfitters Wellston.

It is nice, not only for the expert but the novice can stop in and get all of their questions not only answered but thoroughly explained as Bob did here.

As to the earlier post about Guides teaching or condoning "lining fish", you will have to seek out another person. These guys will not teach this method.


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## Apache Trout (Feb 5, 2002)

Down Mr. Dryfly, take it easy. I never mention the name of any guide in my post. I, like you, have guide friends who work specifically in Northwest Michigan. If we are going to have an honest discussion regarding lining then we have to accept the orginal post's description of a guide having clients line spawning salmon. You and I would both agree that this form of fishing is unethical. Having said that, I am pretty sure the guide didn't inform his clients that they were lining fish. There are ethical guides and there are those guides that compromise their own ethics to merely put clients on fish. Simply a matter of conducting business. You see a different form of it during slow winter steelheading: clients answering the phone when the presentation is in the 'bucket'. This is a bigger concern for me as it messes up the hole for the next fishermen. Lets don't answer the phone if its not ringing.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

Not to hijack this thread, but why do you assume it was a guide? Or should I say, "legit" guide. Sure, it could have been a renegade "weekend warrior" type boat owner from downstate that charges people for a boat ride and lining trip. But they aren't professional guides. And what they are doing is usually illegal because they sidestep the entire permit process and should be turned in. Those are usually the same guys that have poor rowing ethics and get very possesive about area's they're fishing, because they only know that area and not the whole river like a pro-guide. So if they can't get the couple spots they know, they won't get into any fish. Most pro's I know stopped fishing to fish on gravel within the last year or two for just the reasons you mentioned. 50% of the people that are posing as guides are not and should not be confused as such. Say for example, you see someone "guiding" in the PM fly water. They have to be licensed, have insurance and a federal permit. And they have to have their federal permit hanging from their boat while fishing. Anyone guiding there without that permit is illegal. So you can tell just by looking at the boat and if the orange hang tag permit is absent. Anyways, I hear all types of bad experiences from unsuspecting customers who got conned by supposed "guides". "Guides" that took deposits and never showed up, "guides" that said they had gear only to find it was very cheap gear (guys paying $300 expect more than Wal-Mart gear), "guides" that almost got in fights with other fishermen because they were defending their little area they knew, etc. And in every case, when the customer has come in to bitch and tell his "did I get screwed" story, he'd drop the name of his supposed "guide" and it's a name I've never heard before. Moral of the story? And I'm no guide, so I'm promoting nothing, but if you want a guide, deal with the legit shops in the area. If on the Big Man, call Schmidt's. On the Mo or Rogue, call Great Lakes. Etc. And that applies to any hunting trip too. There's a lot of bad horror stories about how guys have gotten "took" by someone posing as a professional guide and essentially taking their money for a boat ride. I assume everyone's "extra cash" for trips like this is guarded. I'd hate to see it fleeced from you by someone claiming to be a guide.


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## Apache Trout (Feb 5, 2002)

Bob, well said and I couldn't agree with you more - people should hire a guide from a shop that has been around a while and has a good reputation, etc. I never assumed the person was a guide, the original poster claimed he was a guide in his post.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

Gotcha. Thanks.


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## DryFly (Jun 4, 2001)

Apache Trout said:


> Down Mr. Dryfly, take it easy.
> 
> No problem here buddy, I wasn't "getting up".


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## esox master (Sep 9, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Not to hijack this thread, but why do you assume it was a guide? Or should I say, "legit" guide.


I knew it was a guide because he had the number and name of his service on his boat and I was talken about steelhead fishing with him the day after on the river, and he was talking about his clients he had yesterday.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

If you want, PM me his name and numbers if you wrote them down.


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