# Water softener discharge



## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

For the first time in 10 years, we had a problem with the softener discharge outdoors. The softener drains into the crock, then has been pumped outside through PVC, into a buried barrel (vented). The run is about 40'.

We've never had an issue until this year and I may know the reason why. Being so cold, we ran the air exchanger more than normal. The exchanger pre-heats incoming air but, it also dehumidifies the home. The water from the exchanger goes into a drain and into the crock. I'm thinking...... maybe to much fresh water was sent outside, which caused the PVC to freeze and break. I used and still do, just a black drain hose after finding the issue.

Should I be using a heat tape and if so, how long do they make them? I do have an outside electrical plug close to plug in the tape. Any suggestions?????


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## hommer23 (Nov 20, 2012)

I am assuming you have 2" PVC right now, if so change it out to 4" and run 2 1/2" pieces of PEX water pipe down the center for hot water. Put a bypass valve and a circulating pump in hooked up to your water heater and connect the Pex to it. When the weather is freezing open the bypass and turn the circulating pump on,the water will be safe to use since the Pex is a closed loop.


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## The Nailer (Feb 7, 2000)

hommer23- That's a great idea

ENCORE- How big of a barrell are you using and is there gravel in the bottom? Does the vent help with ground absorption? I want to put a softener in at camp and do not want it draining to the septic tank and was thinking of doing something similar.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

The Nailer said:


> hommer23- That's a great idea
> 
> ENCORE- How big of a barrell are you using and is there gravel in the bottom? Does the vent help with ground absorption? I want to put a softener in at camp and do not want it draining to the septic tank and was thinking of doing something similar.


I used one of those large plastic blue barrels. I dug a deeper than the barrel hole and filled the bottom with pea stone. Drilled a hole in the top just the size of the pvc pipe. I took a piece of 1" pvc pipe and put a junction in it, which would keep it from falling into the barrel, it sticks out of the ground maybe 5". The wife bought a fake rock, the kind that goes over a well head and that goes over the vent. That vent was a must.

IMO I think I should have used either a larger barrel or, dug the hole even deeper yet then added more pea stone. I'm not sure exactly what happened this year. Maybe the frost went deeper or, it could have been to much plain water from the exchanger that froze it up. I darn near had a real problem on my hands. It froze up and the pump couldn't remove any water, so it just kept running. The crock didn't over flow but, dang, was the water in it hot from the pump heating up! I just happened to notice a humming and that's when I found the pump running without it pumping the crock. I have an emergency hose, that I just connected outside until about a week ago. I tried the pipe again and it worked properly. HOWEVER..... I have some summer work to do. If we'd have taken off to FL for a couple weeks, things could have gotten bad.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Frost was real deep this year. Once the soil is frozen, no water can pass into it.

48" is the standard depth to avoid frost.

IMO, the hole should be much deeper. The top of your barrel should be 48" down or you always will have the chance of it freezing.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

FREEPOP said:


> Frost was real deep this year. Once the soil is frozen, no water can pass into it.
> 
> 48" is the standard depth to avoid frost.
> 
> IMO, the hole should be much deeper. The top of your barrel should be 48" down or you always will have the chance of it freezing.


That's most likely my problem. The bottom of my barrel is only about 5' down. We just didn't have enough snow to help insulate it this year.


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## big show (Sep 10, 2007)

Did you ever consider placing foam insulation on the top of the barrel? I would think that would be enough to keep the system working in the winter.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Foam insulation may help for a while. It really depends how much water flows through, how cold it is, amount of snow etc.


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## selvig36 (Dec 25, 2006)

a lot of people had similar probablem this year. not enough snow for insulation and cold temps. the condensation from the water hitting the cold temps outside is what is freezing. not the discharged water itself. heat tape would be a waste of money and time in my opinion. i would have your softner discharge directly out of house into a pipe you bury and run into a stone/tank like you have. softners discharge under pressure so you dont need to pump it. the softner does that. your tank and stone set up is just a mini septic system for grey water.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

I know a septic pumper and many people had problems this year with freeze up. He said hundreds.

I'd dig down and lay the barrel on the side with 3 holes on the low side to drain and route the inlet to the high side. Get it 48" deep too.


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## The Nailer (Feb 7, 2000)

Thanks for the description ENCORE. That was what I was planning to do, but never thought about a vent. I was told by a friend who lives in Rogers City that the frost level reached 54" this year. We had almost no snow so like someone else said there was no insulation. I was and still am worried about my septic field and drain pipes heaving. I haven't seen any damage yet, but I'm still keeping my fingers crossed.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

The Nailer said:


> Thanks for the description ENCORE. That was what I was planning to do, but never thought about a vent. I was told by a friend who lives in Rogers City that the frost level reached 54" this year. We had almost no snow so like someone else said there was no insulation. I was and still am worried about my septic field and drain pipes heaving. I haven't seen any damage yet, but I'm still keeping my fingers crossed.


I just read in our 5 page newspaper yesterday about the frost going so deep in the area. In Alpena, they were having one heck of a time with the water lines freezing. Then there's been some kind of fight going on over new water meters and, the city told residents to let their water run, to help keep pipes from freezing, all the while rates were jacked up. Just glad I don't live in town.

Although it was cold last year, we had more snow to insulate the ground than this year. I've come to the conclusion my barrel isn't deep enough. So it looks like I have some digging to do this summer. I may even have a buddy bring in his backhoe.

The vent IMO was a must. Although I have the softener to recharge during the night, I've manually recharged it during the day and checked the vent. Amazing the air that thing releases. My wife had the idea of the fake rock over the vent.......


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Since nobody mentioned it yet:

The water from the softener discharge is brine water/salt water and it has a lower freezing temperature than straight water.



If you get your friend over there with a backhoe, it may be a good idea to put in a back up, just in case. I know people do it with drain fields.


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

FREEPOP said:


> Since nobody mentioned it yet:
> 
> The water from the softener discharge is brine water/salt water and it has a lower freezing temperature than straight water.
> 
> If you get your friend over there with a backhoe, it may be a good idea to put in a back up, just in case. I know people do it with drain fields.


Right, but I'm betting what didn't help me was the air exchanger and the fresh water it drained into the crock and outside.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

ENCORE said:


> Right, but I'm betting what didn't help me was the air exchanger and the fresh water it drained into the crock and outside.


Agreed. Once the ground is frozen though, it will pass no water.


I have an idea on what I'd do but it'd probably be way overkill, with a high probability that I'd never have to mess with it again.

If you do get a backhoe out there you may want to run a line or two out with some peas stone. That'll get the water distributed. Look up "leach field" and you may get some ideas.


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## jr9912 (Dec 2, 2008)

We rep for a company called Briskheat. They make all sorts of heat tapes. They make heat tapes in all sorts of lengths, voltages and wattages. I am working with one customer to help him come up with a heat tape that he can place inside a sealed copper tube inserted into his shallow well for freeze protection. His well pit is heated and his well froze below the well pit. In your case a heat tape could be wrapped on the pipe leaving the house underground and only used in the coldest time. You must use ground fault protection.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

How do you replace it when it goes bad?


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## jr9912 (Dec 2, 2008)

Usually dig it up and replace it. You could place it inside a copper tube that taped to the PVC pipe, the when it fails just pull it out of the tube and slide another inside. It would not be the most efficient run since it would be a straight line instead of a wrap but I am sure it would work. Or put a soft copper tube inside your PVC pipe with the heat tape inside. As long as you exited your PVC with a compression fitting. The inside of the copper tubing where the heat tape would reside would be water tight.


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