# Jackson County has a big kitty



## Big50blaster (Feb 4, 2005)

This hear article was in the Jackson Citizen Patriot. I doubts this hear horse was kilt by a yeller lab.:lol: 

*Cougar suspected in death of local horse*

Saturday, September 03, 2005 By Pat Rombyer
*[email protected] *

Wendy Chamberlain braked her car and stared -- staring back at her was a full grown cougar, standing in the middle of Callahan Road. 

"I couldn't believe my eyes," she said Friday, rubbing away the goosebumps on her arm. 

The sighting occurred Thursday morning, the day after a horse was killed in Parma Township, the victim of a cougar attack. 

As the Parma Township supervisor watched in stunned silence, the large cat lumbered slowly off the road and disappeared into the weeds. It only added to her concern. "There's a cougar and people need to know," she said. 

There have been five reported cougar sightings in Jackson County in recent weeks, county animal control officers said. 

Patrick Rusz, director of wildlife programs at the Michigan Wildlife Conservancy who has been researching cougars in Michigan for the past six years, said Michigan's habitat and large deer population make it a natural place for cougars. 

Rusz came to Parma Township Friday to investigate the horse's death. He had the body exhumed and examined the bite marks and other injuries. 

"It was classic cougar," Rusz said, explaining that the 26-year-old registered Arabian died from a bite at the base of the skull. The horse had numerous other puncture marks on the head and neck from the cougar's 21/2-inch fangs. 

"It was as neat a case as I've ever seen," he said. 

Machelle Dunlap, an officer at the Jackson County Animal Control, was the first to suspect a cougar when she was called to the farm on Wednesday. 

"The owner thought maybe it had been shot, which would be a cruelty case," she said. 

Family members told her their dog began barking incessantly at about 1:30 a.m. and they could hear their horses whinnying, Dunlap said. 

The family's name is not being released to avoid attracting sightseers or hunters who may try and capture the wild animal. 

Cougars are protected under the Endangered Species Act and may not be killed without a special permit. 

Once she ruled out gunshots or other wild animals as the cause of death, Dunlap contacted Rusz, who confirmed her suspicions. 

Dunlap, Chamberlain and a Michigan state trooper also explored the area off Callahan Road where Chamberlain saw the cougar. It was a little more than a mile from where the horse was killed. 

They found prints, smelled urine and found a utility pole that appeared to have been used as a scratching post by the cat.


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## Rudi's Dad (May 4, 2004)

Classic case of a pet cougar turned loose. Mount up the possee! Place a $100 reward for killing it. It just dont belong in Michigan Outdoors..


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## SR-Mechead (Jan 25, 2004)

Here we go again :lol:


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## dtg (Jun 5, 2003)




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## tommy-n (Jan 9, 2004)

There in wisconsin, when are the doubters gonna give up, when they snatch your kid from your back yard you'll be the first one crying :gaga:


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

dtg said:


>


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## One Eye (Sep 10, 2000)

Same reaction when the people were claiming there were wolves in the LP. The denials rang true for a long time until they were forced to acknowledge their presence by the one caught by a trapper.

I believe there are mountain lions in Michigan, albeit a small number. Eventually one will get killed or attack someone, and then the "experts" will have to begrudgingly admit they are here.

Since they are "not here" or they are domestic escapees, it must be alright to kill one on sight, right?   

Dan


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## tommy-n (Jan 9, 2004)

Just for you info, My freinds son that stayed over last night is the nephew of the patric rusz mentioned in the article. He said it was for sure a cougar that killed the horse, but who knows for sure if someone released it or it was wild. Just thought I would pass it along


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## funebonz880 (Feb 17, 2004)

Uh oh, i hunt that town. And am going there tommorow. I better bring the old .45


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

Since they may not exist, is it going to be legal when I shoot one when I see it on my property?  

http://www.freep.com/sports/outdoors/outcol10e_20050910.htm

ERIC SHARP: Cougar is culprit in horse's death 

September 10, 2005


When a man found his 1,200-pound Arabian horse dead in a Jackson County field last week, he thought it had been shot. There were two punctures in its neck like a vampire bite and gashes that looked like knife wounds.


County animal control officer Machele Dunlap showed up and did a careful examination of the horse. No bullets were inside it, and she realized that only one wild animal in Michigan could have done that kind of damage.


"It was a cougar," Dunlap said of the wild cat that weighs 100-200 pounds and is also called a mountain lion or puma. "We've had a number of people call in to report cougar sightings, and I have to admit that we were skeptical, because whenever we'd go out to investigate, we couldn't find anything. But there's really no question on this one."


Her conclusion was pretty well confirmed the next day, when Parma Township supervisor Wendy Chamberlain drove along Callahan Road near the farm where the horse was killed and saw a mountain lion sitting on the blacktop.


"It was crouching in the middle of my lane," Chamberlain said. "I stopped about four car lengths away, and it just stared at me. I could see the black markings on its face and tail. There was no question what it was. I watched it for about a minute.


"It was huge. It was three-quarters as long as one lane of the road is wide."


Chamberlain estimated the length as six feet, and she admitted she was frightened until the cat walked into a cornfield.


Pat Rusz, the research biologist for the Michigan Wildlife Conservancy in Bath, said a necropsy on the horse and a clear track proved it was killed by a cougar.


"The animal control people saw the bite marks on the neck and the extensive bleeding and figured that bite killed it," Rusz said.


"That wound could have been fatal, but I think the horse was killed by another bite they missed because of all the blood. It was a classic cougar kill, a bite into the neck at the base of the brain that severed the spinal cord. I bet the horse dropped dead in its tracks."


Ray Rustem, who runs the state Department of Natural Resources endangered species program, said the DNR would investigate.


"We haven't made a determination how the animal died," Rustem said. "I haven't had a chance to talk to the animal control officer."


There have been several reports in recent years that cougars had attacked horses in Michigan, but this was the first in which a horse definitely was killed. (Two years ago, an 80-pound foal disappeared from a pasture surrounded by a six-foot fence in the northern Lower Peninsula where the owner later saw a huge cat.)


In the other attacks, horses were injured but apparently fought off the cougars, which normally prey on deer that weigh 200 pounds or less. Rusz thinks the cat in Parma was a big male because the paw print "was about 3 3/4 inches across, and the spacing of the bite marks from the canine teeth were near the upper end of the width range for a cougar," he said.


Since her sighting was carried by news media, Chamberlain has had calls from other people who said they saw a cougar in the same area. Dunlap said several people living within a 15-mile radius of the farm spotted the cat after the horse was killed


Rusz thinks cougars never were extirpated in Michigan in the early 1900s, as the DNR says. He thinks a few survived and have been breeding at low levels, mostly in sparsely populated parts of the northern Lower Peninsula and the Upper Peninsula.


There have been several recent cougar sightings and video tapings of big cats in the southern Lower, and Rusz thinks those might be animals moving up from Ohio and Indiana, where there also have been a rash of sightings.


As to where the Parma cougar is now, Rusz said: "Who knows? It could be crouching in the nearest thicket, or it could be 50 miles away."


Contact ERIC SHARP at 313-222-2511 or [email protected].


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## funebonz880 (Feb 17, 2004)

Would you guys ever shoot a cougar?? If you saw one on your property, would you shoot it. I mean, not to be mean, or a sport hunter, but i would probably shoot it. I mean, there hasnt really been any totally CONCRETE evidence of cougars. Ya i know the hair and the videos, but has there ever been a dead cougar?? I guess i dont know if i would shoot it, maybe with a camera. i guess id have to see.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

I guess it depends on if your children are playing in the yard as it comes around the house looking for a meal.


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## Big50blaster (Feb 4, 2005)

I seems ta remeber that a while back that the dnr was saying that if they was any cougars out there that they was released pets that couldnt survive for very long in the wild and that they would starve to death pretty soon after they was cut loose. Pets is mostly spossed to be declawed and they cant grab hold of pray. 

Id bet that if this one kilt a horse it has is claws and probly aint a pet. also what can the Dnr say now? either pets can kill horses or this must have ben a wild one.

Lotsa big ole swamps and brush in that area for a cat to hide and live in.


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## SmallGameStalker (Mar 5, 2005)

I'll only believe that there are cougar in Michigan when physical evidence of one is confirmed.


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## fishjunky (Apr 18, 2005)

I saw one. I know it was one. It was about eight years ago, harrison area. I was in a cedar swamp on my hunt camp property,I was about 35 yards away. there it was walking around for 5-10 min. pulled back thought it was a bobcat and realized the size was much to big to be a bobcat. I let it go, not because it would be wrong but out of fear that I would miss. Told everyone at camp what I saw and they still dont think I was sober ,but I was.


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## tedshunter (Dec 27, 2004)

I wish someone would just catch or kill one and put this thing to bed.


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## Lever (Sep 8, 2005)

I wish someone would just catch or kill one and put this thing to bed.

It seems I remeber a story last year from somewhere in the eastern lower area (maybe around bay city or near there) a cougar was hit by a car. they recovered the body and dnr was supposed to have had an autopsy and such done to confirm that it was indeed a cougar.


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## Bwana (Sep 28, 2004)

funebonz880 said:


> Would you guys ever shoot a cougar??


Not unless it was about to attack me or another person. But, if they ever became populous enough that a season was established, since I am a predator Hunter in General, I would have to do my duty! :evil: 

And for the record, I am of the mindest that they are probably here albeit in low numbers. Natural roaming Cougars have been confirmed in Iowa and Wisconsion; and I believe Illinios has some as well based on my readings. With them that close and with as many sightings as we are having, if they are not here already in very limited numbers, I think it is just a matter of time and it will probably be sooner rather than later.


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## eino (Jun 19, 2003)

Weather their pets or actually wild it's hard to say. But the fact is there are cougers in MI. A dead couger will not prove anything. Thoes that belive they are wild will say it was wild thoes that think it was a pet will still say the same. And thoes that flat refuse to belive there are cougers here will say it was planted. 
I just don't see why someone don't take a pack of hounds to a couger sighting and see if they stike on the trail.
I belive there are cougers here. I can't say I'm convinced weather their turned loose pets or actually wild. Were not dealing with Big Foot or Lochness monster here. I don't find it hard to belive that cougers could exist in MI. 
To answer the question someone else asked...I would kill it. They are not protected here as far as I know. I have no first hand knowledge of cougers but I here they have no fear of human. As far as I'm concerned that makes them dangerous critters.

Ed


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

A dead cougar would prove a great deal, first of all, that it's not just a fairy tale, that there really are cougars in Michigan, and second, they could tell a whole lot about that cougar from his dna like what sub species he was, how long he'd been in the wild (from stomach contents, evidence of claws, weight, age, tooth condition, any alteration of sex organs, or if it was female whether it had ever been bred or had kittens, etc.,), etc. 

But we've never had any cougars found, alive or dead, tame or wild, in the wild to examine at all. 

Every time someone reports a cougar sighting that is at all credible, there are hounds turned loose in that area, whether it's in the UP or in Monroe County-just ask the local sportsmen around that area, they'll tell you. Hounds are loose in much of the state, anyway, for bear, bobcat, ****, coyote, or fox, more than 8 months of the year, including both the hunting seasons and the training seasons. Those dogs would just as readily tree a big cat as quickly as they would a housecat, it is instinctive in those breeds. 

No cougar. Or even creditable evidence of cougar, such as we got with the wolverine in the Thumb. 

And the lack of cougar evidence is certainly not because most people wouldn't shoot it and report it-although that certainly is possible, the guy who shot that wolf in the lower last year decided he'd probably be in less trouble if he reported it rather than was found out-and it turned out he was right. He was never prosecuted. 

Like wolves, cougars are protected in Michigan. They have been ever since the early 1900's. 

I don't find it hard to believe that cougars could exist in Michigan, either. The UP certainly has suitable habitat...but so far, we've yet to come up with one dead cougar. 

And yet we keep hearing stories like this. Right about the time the MWC feels that the public is losing interest and their credibility, or possibly their bank accounts, are in jeopardy.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Trophy Specialist said:


> ? So far the MWC is just about the only ones that have stepped up to the plate to offer funding for independent testing. .



Question for you TS. Have the MWC folks done that in this case.....they didn't say word one about DNA collected etc. Will they be willing to do it in this case or not? Some "bioligist" looks at a kill an says classic Cougar and we are supposed to fall in line like sheep? Give me a friggin break! Hopefully those yocals where smart enough to take dna etc, etc. Since they are so qualified, I would assume nothing less. 

I never said it wasn't a Cougar...I want to now where it's from it's lineage etc. If the MWC can't provide that with all the "proof" they collected, then again, they have dropped the ball (if they had it to begin with that is)


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## BVW (Jul 25, 2002)

I had to go back and read this article even if it was with the help of the MWC crap pots . Does the Article mention claw marks? All i read was bite marks to the neck and head . 1200 pounds seems like a good size horse and quite a risk for a Cougar to take on, also to only use it's mouth with 2 1/2 inch fangs? There would be a huge struggle and lots of blood shed with a 100-200 pound cat and a 1200 pound horse. .The horse would have had to have been on the ground to get a bite wound to the top of it's head unless the Cougar climbed up on it's back which would leave giant claw marks in the horse's back inorder to hold on the arabian horse. 
I think i have a better idea what happend to this "horse"/









_Named because of the way it sucked all the blood from Puerto Rican goats, the Chupacabra has been leaving fear in its tracks for many years now.

First spotted in Puerto Rico in 1994, the Chupacabra has since migrated off the island and has recently been spotted in many locations including South America as well as the US. Although it was named because of its choice of goat-blood as a meal, the Chupacabra has reportedly attacked and devoured the blood of a wide variety of animals including dogs and sheep. As far as we know, there have yet to be any human fatalities.

Due to the distinct technique the strange animal has of killing its prey, it is very easy to tell if the Chupacabra was involved in an animals death. Animals are *found with puncture wounds in their neck * and most of their blood removed. Often, the victim's organs have disappeared even though the only wound is a small hole in the animal's neck. Reports of laser-like cuts on the victim's ears are also common.

Although some people say they have seen the Chupacabra's tracks, in many cases there are no signs of blood or tracks around the dead animals._

Prove me wrong people ...prove me wrong... :corkysm55


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## tommy-n (Jan 9, 2004)

boer, are you another doubting Thomas ?


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## tommy-n (Jan 9, 2004)

bvw, a 21 year old horse is getting old and weak


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

I must ask though if there was a dog out there barking why wouls the lion go for the horse? That is a heck of a meal when Jackson county is full of corn fed venison

AW


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## tommy-n (Jan 9, 2004)

I personally don't think theres much doubt if it was killed by a cougar, the proof was there on the bites and the tracks found in the area. Just if it was truely wild or something someone let go, thats the argument


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

tommy-n said:


> boer, are you another doubting Thomas ?


About a _wild_ cougar in Jackson County, you bet, with a lot more than doubt. In the UP I might say maybe but not in southern Michigan, not this year.


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## SmallGameStalker (Mar 5, 2005)

Trophy Specialist said:


> Swamp Monster, would you (or any other people that don't believe the MWC) be willing to foot the bill for DNA testing? So far the MWC is just about the only ones that have stepped up to the plate to offer funding for independent testing. I would love to see some of the nay-sayers actaully put their money where their mouths are and kick in some money for testing. No instead you all just demand that someone else does it for you to satisfy your skepticism.


Us skeptics don't need to foot the bill for testing. It has always been incumbent upon those who make the claim to fund or find the funds to conduct the research in support of their claims. Expecting anything else is to weaken key parts of the scientific enterprise which has served us well for centuries.


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## Wildwood_Deckers (Sep 9, 2005)

I can't believe this argument. We need DNA to determine weather its wild or a pet gone wild, to determine the subspecies etc, Does it deserve protection, etc etc.
What difference would that make? The elk that inhabit Michigan are not the same elk that ran here years ago. The wolves that are here, same goes for them. They were both reintroduced species.

So, should both those species not be protected and controled as many of you have said about this cougar?

I think this argument is a bunch wasted effort.... If they are here, they are here. Its as easy as that.

What should be done about them is another discussion.....provided they are in Michigan. Which I believe they do.


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## Liv4Huntin' (May 24, 2000)

Cougars attack their prey, when possible, from elevated structures....... trees, rock outcrops, etc. It is entirely possible for a cougar, even one without claws, to drop down on a horse from a tree limb. They can jump great heights and lengths ... not AT ALL impossible to get on the back of a horse.
~ m ~


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

SmallGameStalker said:


> Us skeptics don't need to foot the bill for testing. It has always been incumbent upon those who make the claim to fund or find the funds to conduct the research in support of their claims. Expecting anything else is to weaken key parts of the scientific enterprise which has served us well for centuries.


Your statment doen't make any sense. The MWC has already provided what most people believe is proof yet a minority of people still doubt their results. It's time for the doubters to step up to the plate and prove that the MWC is wrong. Funny how that is just not happening though. I have never seen any sign of a cougar in Michigan in my life, yet I am not so persumptous to call the 1000s of folks who have seen them that they imagined them or made up the stories.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

When last I spoke (two years ago) to Dr. Brad Swanson, a professor of biology at Central Michigan University, and one of the scientists who has worked on the scat, etc., turned in over the years regarding cougars in this state, he told me that independent DNA testing on a good sample, either at CMU, another reputable university, or an independent lab, costs about $300. So it's not all THAT pricey, even if it's gone up a bit in the last two years. 

The Michigan DNR, as well as a number of private individuals as well as the MWC and other conservation foundations has used CMU's services on many, many occasions, including the hair finding in the western UP last fall from a vehicular accident that proved to be from a cougar. 

When I was doing stories on this subject two years ago, I talked to several volunteer "cougar trackers" with the MWC in various locations all over the state, both UP and lower, on a number of different occasions, telling them that I would be HAPPY to pay for DNA testing if they could obtain good samples of evidence from what they believed to be cougar...not one of them ever got back to me. Not one. 

I don't know what happened there, at the time I talked to them, all of them were EAGER to once and for all prove the existence of cougars in Michigan. But I never heard from any of them. 

Wildwood-once again, the wolves present in Michigan today were NOT re-introduced...these are descendants of a population in Minnesota and Canada that has expanded their range.

And yes, if the proper authorities on the subject of forensic pathology had been contacted right after the death, or even before the death, of the horse, they might very well have been able to prove what killed it. But they didn't even contact a veterinarian, all of whom have taken at least a class or two somewhere along the line on both domestic animal and wildlife pathology??

If I had a horse that died of mysterious circumstances, I would do everything in my power to find out through the best authorities around what actually killed it-a phone call to the MSU vet school would have brought a dozen animal pathologist students, plus their professor, on the run, I bet. Free...

Instead, they call a county animal control officer, which in Michigan is NOT required to have any scientific animal background at all? Oh, and the MWC. As well as the local paper. 

The chupacapra, or whatever that thing is, is not a joke or a myth to many people in Texas and Mexico...apparently, they really do have something running around killing chickens and things like that in south Texas that they believe may be a chupa...although the "chupa" they found dead last year ultimately proved to be a coyote with a severe case of mange...so, until they actually find and document a chupacapra, either alive or dead, it goes into the same category as wild cougars in Michigan.


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## Bwana (Sep 28, 2004)

Wildwood_Deckers said:


> I can't believe this argument. We need DNA to determine weather its wild or a pet gone wild, to determine the subspecies etc, Does it deserve protection, etc etc.
> What difference would that make?


I se you are relatively new here. You are going to find that the Cougar debate along with Baiting, Deer Management and Wolves are special.



Wildwood_Deckers said:


> The elk that inhabit Michigan are not the same elk that ran here years ago. The wolves that are here, same goes for them. They were both reintroduced species.


I don't know much about the Elk, but the Wolf was not reintroduced into Michigan. If you state this in a Wolf Debate somebody will pound you over the head with it.


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## Hamilton Reef (Jan 20, 2000)

Cougar is culprit in horse's death 

County animal control officer Machele Dunlap showed up and did a careful examination of the horse. No bullets were inside it, and she realized that only one wild animal in Michigan could have done that kind of damage.

http://www.freep.com/sports/outdoors/outcol10e_20050910.htm


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

Bwana said:


> I don't know much about the Elk, but the Wolf was not reintroduced into Michigan. If you state this in a Wolf Debate somebody will pound you over the head with it.


Actually it is a known fact that the DNR did reintroduce some wolves in Michigan. They claimed that those wolves did not survive and that the current population is the result of wolves straying into the state. The truth is that knowbody really knows where our current wolf population came from. They could even be released pets because the law was changed banning the legal ownership of wolves in Michigan right around the time the wolf population really took off.


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## polarbare21 (Feb 17, 2003)

I'm too busy to b.s. anybody, and all these attacks on people who state what they have seen is crap. 

If you dont want to believe, then fine. 
But dont challenge someones credibilaty, or honesty that you do not know.

I know what I saw, in Manchester Michigan, this summer. With out even one doubt.
When you get a look, you will know too, without a doubt.

Go ahead, throw your attacks...... wont change what I saw.


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## SR-Mechead (Jan 25, 2004)

polarbare21 said:


> I'm too busy to b.s. anybody, and all these attacks on people who state what they have seen is crap.
> 
> If you dont want to believe, then fine.
> But dont challenge someones credibilaty, or honesty that you do not know.
> ...



polarbare. Its the rocking chair cowboys that say there is no cougars in Mich. I have a 70 year young friend who said that he and his wife had to stop the car because they saw a cougar in the road last year and who im I to say that he nuts. The man has hunted more places than I ever will.


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

Got this on my trail cam yesterday.


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## BVW (Jul 25, 2002)

I promised myself i would not post again on this cryptozooligy Cougar thing but that Elvis pic is halarious  
What did the tracking dogs find when they where put on the trail of the Horse Killer? Even if it was a Cougar or any other animal this should be done to protect future geezer horses that just stand there while a cougar sucks it's blood. Must of been losts of fresh sign. I did not read that? Why do these killers just disapear? Why don't they leave tracks in the snow once winter comes? This has ole' Chupacapra written all over it, they migrate back south for the winter and live here for the summer. 
Believers you are just believing, everyone else is listening to reason at this point in time until proven other wise. Stories do not prove much. 
This will all end when everyone here that has seen a Cougar follows it's tracks this winter, this should not been tough with all the eye witnesses we have and Cougars in Jackson and Sterling hieghts. If they are "breeding" we need more than one, unless they have snail reproductive organs?
Good luck, and i can't wait for Michigan to be the only state in the Midwest and east with a breeding Cougar population.


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## Bwana (Sep 28, 2004)

Trophy Specialist said:


> Actually it is a known fact that the DNR did reintroduce some wolves in Michigan. They claimed that those wolves did not survive and that the current population is the result of wolves straying into the state. The truth is that knowbody really knows where our current wolf population came from. They could even be released pets because the law was changed banning the legal ownership of wolves in Michigan right around the time the wolf population really took off.


From everything I have read the reintroduced Wolves did not survive and the current population is here due to natural expansion of their range; obviously aided by its protected status. I am not a Wolf expert, and don't claim to be, but I have read as much as possible and the current concensus seems to be that the Wolf population of Michigan is here simply through expansion. As I said though, I am not an expert; only an interested follower.

As for the pet theory, sorry, but I find that one suspect from what I have read. However, if you have anything to substanciate(sp?) this I would love to read it as this subject is very interesting to me; actually all large North American Predators and their status are interesting to me.


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