# Special Pics



## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

Thought I'd make some use of my expanded photo gallery and share some of my favorite habitat scenery shots of this autumn. These two were taken from treestands.

This was taken on the afternoon of November 7. Note the fawns feeding in the clover in this food plot, while ignoring the brassicas. :lol: 

This plot is surrounded by warm-season grasses. Believe me, as soon as these deer stepped out of the clover and into the grass, they were INVISIBLE. Some good news - one of my guests killed a doe yesterday; its belly was full of bright green browse. Gotta believe it likely came from one of my four clover plots; the only other thing as green as this stuff would be winter wheat, and the nearest field of that stuff is over a mile away.











This is another dandy, to me, anyway. The view looks straight northwest from 20 ft. up in a huge, multi-trunked White Ash. Note the "layers" of habitat as you look outward; a few rows of White Pine, a swath of goldenrod, a mowed access trail, more goldenrod, my soybean patch, more weeds, a 4 acre conifer planting, and then, increasingly faintly, prairie grasses, more conifers, more prairie grasses, and finally, the distant northwest woodlot, which is nearly a half mile out from my stand location.










Ah, the memories.


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## brokenarrow (Oct 6, 2003)

Great looking shots FL
In pic 2 is that a huge tree stand just above the tree line about a 1/2 mile away in the center/top of the picture?


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

Afraid not, BA. It's actually a tall Red Oak that still had its leaves.


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## Swamp Ghost (Feb 5, 2003)

Looks like the controlled burn from a few years ago paid off! The warm season grasses are looking good.


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## ThumbBum (Oct 13, 2003)

Great looking habitat FL

I have 2 small fileds that border my property and Im trying to decide on the best cover to plant there. The fields have woody edge on three sides and open into my neighbors farm field on the fourth side. They are situatied right next to each other with a 5 acre strip of old growth aspen seperating them. I havent done anything with either filed in the last few years because the wooded area between them and the edges of both fileds are scheduled for an aspen celarcut this winter and I didnt want any plantings to get messed up by the logging equipment. 

I want to use Ed Spins suggestion of an attractant plot bordering the innermost wood edge and thick cover filling the rest of the filed all the way to the property line. Both fields are sloped downward toward the innermost edge with the higest part at the property line. Currnetly the fileds are in goldenrod. Several years ago I panted a 3-row wide conifer strip anong the property lines of each field, but I cant decide if I should fill in the rest of the fileds in grasses or woody shrubs. I think grasses would be easier to plant and provide the added advantage of possible turkey and pheasant habitat but woody shrubs would be maintenance free once establisahed. (I have no experince in controled burns and would rather not get stuck with a bill for my neighbir crop damage than you very much) 

I would really like to hear your opinion on this. 

Also
I would welcome the opinon of anyone else who cares to chime in on this, but lets NOT open up the whole Autum Olive debate again.


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

Really pretty pics!! Thanks for sharing.


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## Bwana (Sep 28, 2004)

It seems like you have a very nice place fl. Very nice.


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## Andy (May 20, 2004)

great pictures. there is so much more satisfaction sitting over land you've invested time, money, and sweat into. The difference is night and day.
andy


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

FL,
BEAUTIFUL!!!!
Not bad for a city slicker!  
Big T


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## bishs (Aug 30, 2000)

Very nice! I have similar habitat, just fewer deer. 
There has been 24 turkeys using my corn and soy foodplots. The pheasants are not flocked up like last year yet. Trying to see how they compare to last year. I have seen 14 in a flock so far.


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## Letmgro (Mar 17, 2002)

I'm really envious...just beautiful!

Question FL, what are the warm season grasses you mentioned? How much seed did you use? What type of fertilizer, if any?

Thanks!


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## Swamp Ghost (Feb 5, 2003)

Rob, it's a fantastic place.


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

Rob, the prairie grasses shown in the first pic are a mix of Indiangrass (the most visible of the grasses by autumn), Big Bluestem, and Little Bluestem, along with some wildflowers, mixed by John Ossenbaugh(sp?) Seed, an Iowa operation that advertises in the PF magazine. The plot is 4.5 acres in size, and it was planted on 06/25/2003 with a Truax prairie grass drill. My recollection is that about 10# of pure live seed was planted. No fertilizer, these grasses don't need a lot of nutrients. On the same day, a nearby 3 acre plot of switchgrass was planted.

The plots were prepped in the spring of 2003, on fields inhabited by thick sod comprised of cool season grasses and various weeds. First, a controlled burn was conducted in April by a team of experts. When things greened up, I hit both plots with Roundup, and then, about 3 weeks prior to planting, I applied Roundup again, and on the bluestem/indiangrass plot I added about 5 oz./acre of Plateau. On the same plot, I followed it up several weeks later with another 4 oz./acre of Plateau. Spring 2004, another 4oz./acre of Plateau. Plateau controls weeds and, more importantly, public enemy #1, competing cool season grasses. This plot is doing better than the switchgrass plot, which I attribute to the fact that you cannot apply Plateau to switchgrass.

Because of competition from cool season grasses and weeds, the switchgrass has lagged. In probably 30% of the plot, it looks like it just plain got choked out. Across the rest of the plot, the switchgrass got maybe 2-3 feet tall. In contrast, my Indiangrass and Big Blue was a solid 6 ft. tall patch of beautiful cover.


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## bishs (Aug 30, 2000)

My brother planned on doing the same thing with the prairie grasses, only he had Big Bluestem only. He planted with the Truax drill, and had the Plateau bought. Then we were hit with two flooding rains, and washed the seed away. He will do it again this spring. Be patient with the switch grass, it took me two summers to see my plants. The following spring the plants appeared about 2 feet apart, some closer, so I just waited. That field is as good as you could expect today. The grasses were 6 feet tall this year. No open areas. I may have to cut, or burn soon. My Switch grass dropped enough seed to fill in the open areas.


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

Scott, I would recommend to your brother that he include some Indiangrass in the mix next time. I think it stays upright into the late season a little bit better than Big Bluestem, plus it's better looking.


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## bishs (Aug 30, 2000)

Thanks, I will tell him. I think he would be better off with a mix also.


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## Letmgro (Mar 17, 2002)

FL, thanks for the info.

One last question; how long will that warm-season grassy area last?

Thanks


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

Burn it every 4-5 years or so, and it is said to be capable of persisting for perhaps 1,000 years. No kidding.


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## Hamilton Reef (Jan 20, 2000)

farmlegend, Your pictures show how to have fun working with habitats, but the readers may not fully realize how much time, work and expense is involved.

I may have mentioned that I'm on the WHIP. I have another field walk with my NRCS agent next Monday. During the first two weeks of rifle deer season I had 9.6-acres scotch pine removal and about 20-acres of popular/aspen misc. removed. We took out 40-semis of chips and 3-trucks of red pine pole logs. I now have a ton of replanting to do next spring. I also exposed about 40-50 old apple trees that will be trimmed up and rejuvenated.

I'm most interested your comments on your prairie grass project. I made a copy of your project description for my WHIP file discussion with the NRCS agent. My WHIP includes 9.7-acres of my adjacent neighbor's property. It is actually two fields connected by a long 60-foot wide corridor, all of which will be native grasses. This will provide grass habitat for long area adjacent to this fall timber harvest. How did your cost figures come out for your project? I get the idea these grass projects can be more work and cost more than the timber projects.

I have areas for 9 food plots turkey & deer, but those are areas I deliberately left out of my WHIP so I could play with numerous plantings as desired including dividing the larger plots into multi blends and crops. My WHIP also calls for up to 195 brush piles. That should drive a beagle nuts.


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## bishs (Aug 30, 2000)

My Native grass mix, is enrolled in CREP. I purchased the seed through an elevator they recomended, I am sure I could of bought it much cheaper. But the program paid for it. The grasses are planted around shallow water ponds. There must be about 3 acres of grass, and 2 acres of water. 

I planted:
8lbs, Big Bluestem
8 lbs of Indian Grass
8 lbs of Little Blue stem
2lbs of wildflower mix.

The grasses cost $570, the flower cost $80. 

These grasses are pretty expensive. Switch Grass is much cheaper, you can even get it free from Pheasants Forever. 

Comparing the grasses. For pheasant cover, winter cover, Switch Grass is better. It holds up to snow better. The mixture of the other grasses is better for foraging/loafing chicks, and wildlife in general. Switch grass gets so thick, it becomes difficult for birds to walk through. The other grasses like Bluestem are browsed by deer, switch grass is not browsed. The other grasses are prettier.

If switchgrass is mixed, it will take over in time.


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## BarryPatch (Jul 21, 2004)

The deer and turkeys seem to like these. When my dog goes in you can see the bushes move as the turkeys fan out. The deer brose them and bed down between the rows.

http://rmlucas.com/BLUEBERRYFIELD.JPGhttp://rmlucas.com/blueberryfield.jpg


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## oldguy (Dec 16, 2004)

BarryPatch said:


> The deer and turkeys seem to like these. When my dog goes in you can see the bushes move as the turkeys fan out. The deer brose them and bed down between the rows.


Re: the original post, beautiful pics FL, your hard work paid off.

Question for BarryPatch....where did you purchase your blueberry stock? That field looks great!

FYI for members interested in warm season grass. I have about ninety pounds of "extra" big blue/indian grass seed we harvested this fall (off a field we plan to spring burn). This came off a CREP planting, so I couldn't sell it if I wanted to, but the seed is clean, and the field it came from is awesome. I also have about eighty pounds of switchgrass (blackwell), same deal......more than I can use and it can't be sold. If anyone's interested, let me know. I'll be at the Deer/Turkey expo in Lansing this year. I'll do my best to distribute it evenly....all free to a good home....

Also, FYI re: the switchgrass......for pheasant cover, it can't be beat. The blackwell variety tends to be a little shorter than some of the others (4-5' vs 6'+), but the big pluses are that you can see the birds flush while hunting it, and it's not as aggressive a variety as cave in the rock, etc. Remember, even if switchgrass starts to invade another warm season planting, most varieties are very susceptible to plateau. 

Re Bishs comments about it getting thick, very true, but the birds at my place seem to like it all the more once it gets that way, and form tunnel networks through it for cover. Deer bed in it all day long as well.


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## DEERSLAYER (Mar 29, 2000)

I would be very interested in some of that seed! Dose anybody know how long the shelf life is of any of this seed? I have one area that I might not be able to get ready in time in time for a planting this year.


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## BarryPatch (Jul 21, 2004)

They were there when I bought the property. They just needed some pruning. These are Jerseys which are an older variety. They're taller than some of the newer half-high cultivars and seem to provide better cover.

This one was in the field adjacent to the berries on opening day. You can see them in the backgroung sans the leaves.

http://rmlucas.com/The_Deer_Pointer.JPG


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

Hamilton Reef said:


> How did your cost figures come out for your project? I get the idea these grass projects can be more work and cost more than the timber projects.



Part of the key to a successful stand of prairie grasses (other than site prep) is choosing the right year to plant them! Some guys had their seed washed out this year. I know one veteran of such things that had a plot fail in 2001 for lack of precipitation. 

In my case, my seed was free; got my prairie mix (bluestems, indiangrass, wildflowers) from USFWS, because it was adjacent to a wetland project they performed (under the "Partners in Wildlife" program). 










Switchgrass seed came from the local PF chapter, which also sprang for my initial dose of Plateau. I did buy a gallon of Plateau last year, cost over $300. 

You are correct about the time and expense involved in these things. In the case of my plots, I was fortunate to have good establishment weather in 2003. Between mapping the sites, chasing down the local fire marshall (for burn permits - what a hassle that was, I'd have been ahead of the game if I'd just skipped the permit process, turned myself in, and paid the fine), conducting burns, spraying on two separate days before planting, supervising the planting operation, procuring seed, sprayings and spot-mowing subsequent to planting, I easily burnt up 10-12 days to get it where it is now. 

There are some reputable prairie seed dealers to be found on the web. Stock Seed Farms and Ernst Seed come to mind, both have decent sites.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

FL,

Now that my kids have graduated I am up for adoption. :lol: :lol: 

Big T


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## DEERSLAYER (Mar 29, 2000)

farmledegend,

How big an area can you treat with that $300 gallon of Plateau? Also, what is it's shelf?


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## Bob S (Mar 8, 2000)

Great pictures farmlegend. This is the first I have look at this thread. 

The time and expense is well worth it when the deer use that improved habitat.


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

Deerslayer, you only need to use about 4-6 ounces per acre. So a gallon could treat somewhere between 21 and 32 acres. Not sure of the shelf life. You could probably get more info at BASF's website.


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## DEERSLAYER (Mar 29, 2000)

Cool. Thanks. Good thing it takes so little considering the price for a gallon. I would imagine I could find it by the quart somewhere.


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

Here's a shot taken minutes after the first. The first was taken looking NNE, and this one is more NE. The food plot is about a half acre in size. It's comprised of ladino and alsike clovers, and contains some smatterings of some Biologic Maximum, which I broadcast. The little yellow tufts in the clover are invading cool season grasses. 










Here's one taken looking straight east. Note the restored wetland in the left-center portion of the image, and also part of a 4 acre conifer plantation.










This next image is 180 degrees off the last, looking WNW, directly into my largest "safe area"(about 35a.); this area was the location of substantial logging in 2003, as well as plenty of hinge-cutting, clearcutting, and other TSI hacking by myself over the last several years. My treestand sits on the eastern edge of this zone. I only enter it in the winter, and then, only to do more chainsaw work.


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## Hamilton Reef (Jan 20, 2000)

Just beautiful pictures farmledgend.
I had a property walk with my NRCS agent Monday and I got my stumpage check from the chippers. I am now funded to order trees for replanting this spring. The Muskegon Conservation District uses my wife's cargo trailer to pick up their bulk plant and tree orders. The trailer is great for hauling everything protected. The MCD asked if they use the trailer again April 12. I replied, "I can't say no when my trees are part of that order."


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## DEERSLAYER (Mar 29, 2000)

Nice pic's, but that "safe area" needs to get way thicker. :yikes: Hopefully that will change soon for you.


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

The image is a little deceiving, Deerslayer. It's thicker in there than it looks. Down at ground level, it is quite difficult to travel through. It should get better next year.


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## DEERSLAYER (Mar 29, 2000)

Coooool  Do you have any water sources, foodplots, or "tree plots" in there?


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

There are 3 seasonally wet woodland swamps in there - vegetationwise, they're full of buttonbush, which is good wood duck habitat. Also contained within it is a 2a. spot on a sandhill, sanwiched between two of the swamps, which was mature bigtooth aspen until I clearcut it; woodcock seem to nest in that area. 

No food plots in the sanctuary. Crop fields over on the west end of it, crop fields about 200 yds south of it, crop fields 250 yards north of it, and a couple food plots within pitching wedge distance. Food is never in short supply, there's generally hundreds of acres of corn, soys, and alfalfa nearby, and also wheat in most years. I have never had any of my little food plots "wiped out" by the deer. My deer are relatively moderate in density, by southern MI standards, and are really picky eaters; if it ain't natural browse, acorns, or farm crops, they only nibble. 

I signed a contract to have a woodland flooding project done on it last year(USFWS), but the wet summer precluded it. Hopefully, we'll get it done this year, it should flood several acres in a horseshoe-shaped pattern, with high ground in the middle.


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

Though nearly a bust from the farmer's perspective, this 17 acre field really pulled the deer. Heavy June rains washed probably half the corn plants away, as well as in two other other fields (12 and 9 acres, respectively). On the west end of my property, another farmer grew 25 acres of corn that came out great - lighter and better-drained soil over there. 

This plot was harvested December 17. Pic taken around 10/20. Sugar Maples look pretty good, eh?











Another shot of the same field.


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## bishs (Aug 30, 2000)

Beautifull property! You have a nice mix of habitat with a lot of edge cover, and good farmland. It doesn't get much better than that.


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## David G Duncan (Mar 26, 2000)

FL, great post!!!!

Thanks!

I have both winter wheat and clover plots and the deer are digging through a foot of snow to get to the clover. The plots looks like a small bulldozer has been working there. It must be like candy to them.

This was the third year for the clover plot, so I am planning on replanting it this year. Now I need to decide if I plant the clover in the spring or fall. Any suggestions?


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

David,

You might consider a frost seeding around the time of snow melt.

Yours in stewardship,
Big T


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

Took this one on a stand-pulling venture, January 16, 14 degrees, brisk NNW wind. Sky sure was blue. 

The remaining corn here, less than 3a. worth, will not be harvested. This particular crop field is about 9a. in size, and it was a bust for the farmer. Just seconds before I took this one, about 20 hen turkeys took flight directly in the direction the camera is pointing.

The whitish tree in the center of the image, off in the distance, is the only sycamore you can find for miles. How it got there is a mystery. Rest of this particular woodlot is about 60% Bur and Swamp White Oak.


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## DEERSLAYER (Mar 29, 2000)

Farm country, standing corn over the winter to bring the deer into spring in good shape, 60% swamp oaks, food plots, etc. Farmlegend, you make me sick!   LOL


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## Andy (May 20, 2004)

hey FL,


could you give us a brief summary of what kind of deer you see while hunting this incredible land? how many days a year do you hunt this land?
thanks,
andy


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

Andy, the hunting is pretty good, but no as good as you might expect. 

No question, the deer have it pretty decent; plenty of good quality, year-round foodstuffs, cover, water, etc. Deer density is on the moderate side(owing to 9 years of targeting does), but there's always the danger it will explode, since fawn productivity and recruitment is darn near tremendous. We did not reach our target this year. Over the last 3 hunting seasons, we've taken 20 does, zero bucks. Adult does are much harder to kill here than are yearling bucks. On average, I will see one or more deer on approximately 2/3 of all my sits.

This year, I passed on a personal best record of 13 archery kill opportunities on bucks, 10 of which were on yearlings, 3 on 2.5's.

I average one good bowhunting encounter with a 3.5 year old or older buck each season. This year, a 150ish 10pt. was encountered 3 times; had him right under my platform on 11/7 AM(come to think of it, from the stand from which the first photo was taken, at 11AM that morning), but no shot opportunity. He was killed on the morning of 11/16 by a guy in a treestand hung 6ft. off my fenceline.

My "low hole in the bucket", as Dr. Grant Woods would say, is people management. I have 3.25 miles of perimeter, which is shared with 8 different landowners. Most are farmers. Only one of them actually hunt themselves, and most are pretty generous with who they give permission to. Two of them, in particulary, when asked who has permission to hunt their land, will honestly tell you they can't name 'em all. The cast of characters that will show up to hunt around my perimeter changes from year to year, which makes it tough to develop relationships with nearby hunters. My fenceline is a very popular place to hunt. I've been doing some "creative landscaping" to make this tactic more difficult and less productive, but I've got more work to do. 

Also, poaching is a problem. The property is on a sparsely travelled road, few folks live nearby, and since I've owned the place, I know of 3 huge bucks poached (well, let's call it a 90% likelihood of it) either on my property or within a stone's throw, as well as scores of other poached deer, including many yearling and button bucks.

That being said, my complaints about nearby hunter behavior could be fairly considered to be nitpicking. I am fortunate to have acquired this property, and have enjoyed great recreation from managing and hunting it.

Forgot to mention until I edited this post: as to number of days hunted, I put in 46 sits this past season (that's pretty close to the most I can get in without putting "domestic tranquility" at risk ). I usually average 35-40 sits per season.


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## Andy (May 20, 2004)

we've taken 23 does off our property in the past 3 seasons. You should have some sort of browse test done. It sounds like your land could hold more deer than you have. If so, why not decrease the doe kill per year?? I mean, the reason we shoot high amounts of does is not only to balance the sex ratio but also to keep the land sustainable for the deer that are not killed. Our population requires us to shoot a lot of does because there are so many deer and not really enough food.....in fact a high % of our local deer leave later in the season for lack of food on our land. But that does not sound like your area. i don't know, from the pictures you posted i would think there literally is a deer behind every tree on your property....maybe with fewer doe kills there would be!


Andy


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

No question that we could support more deer. Preferred vegetation is relatively lightly browsed, and I've never had a food plot get "wiped out", even a half-acre one. 

Here's a few reasons off the top of my head why I don't ease off on the doe harvest:
1. There's more than enough deer around to provide a quality recreational experience; I don't need more. If I start to see deer on every single sit, I'll KNOW I've got too many around
2. We really only need enough does to replace the bucks taken each year; with the high recruitment rates we experience, that ain't many does
3. Partly because the deer numbers remain moderate to the habitat, body weights are pretty darn impressive. I've never weighed a yearling doe that dressed at less than 100 pounds. Guests that I invite to my place commonly remark at the relative size of the does they see, compared to what they see where they hunt
4. If I wasn't taking does, the adult doe:buck ratio would quickly become obscene. This was the case until about 2-3 years ago. Before that, sightings of 2.5 year old or older bucks were rare, and the few mature bucks in the neighborhood made virtually no sign. Daytime buck movement is clearly superior now than it was a few years ago when we had more deer. Also, nearby hunters seem to prefer taking yearling bucks rather than does.
5. Given the high recruitment rate and rich habitat, deer numbers could get excessive FAST, especially if we get a year with poor hunting weather, or fate decrees that we can't put as many hours in afield. And when that happens, it takes YEARS to correct; you cannot get back to where you want to be in a single season. Been there. I'd much rather err on the side of lower numbers.


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## Huntmaster143 (Aug 28, 2003)

FL,

Where has been the best place to buy the plateau? I'm planning on spraying my WSG's that I planted last summer. They started growing last summer and they are maybe 3-4" tall. I figured if I spray them this spring, by late summer they may be close to full height, considering I have an occasional plant that is 4' tall.

Thanks,

HM


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

Scott, I got my Plateau from
www.cwc-chemical.com

There were some problems with availability of this stuff last summer.


Here's a couple more prairie shots. First was taken 09/11/04. Can you spot the top of the planted Norway Spruce that looks like it's sticking up through the grass? Actually, it is growing on this side of the WSG's, and it's part of a planting of about 2000 NWS's.











This one was again taken in early November. That "island" of trees in the middle of the grasses is a common stopover spot for both bucks and does.


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## Bear Creek (Feb 9, 2003)

I'm not sure you can still get Palteau? Last year I was told by everyone from the DNR wildlife people to CWC themselves that if you were not a state/local wildlife proffesional or with the Federal Gov. you could not buy this product. They put the clamps on supposedly because it was being used illegally down south for peanut sraying I think?? So the Chemical company was not making it available to the general public. You can buy Journey which is a mix of Round-up and Plateau but I don't think you can buy strait Plateau unless someone has old inventory laying around. Good Luck and let me know if you find some as I could use it too.

Bear Creek


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

I'd mentioned a few times in this forum that I planted a plot of switchgrass on 06/25/2003. Due to competition from cool season grasses, and because there is no product like Plateau that can be used on switchgrass, it has not done as well as the Indiangrass/bluestems. It's a 3a. plot, surrounded on three sides by woodlots, and one side by old field. Note a few NW Spruce which were planted back in '97, that are j-u-s-t now starting to show up; they've been impacted by grass competion also.











Here's another winter shot, taken from the top of a hill(crests at just over 1200 ft. above sea level), looking north. The big patch of conifers was planted in '97. It's a little over 4a. in size, about 240 yards across, and about 85 yards deep. The big ones are White Pine(most of which are now 14-16 feet tall), the little ones Norway Spruce. In the foreground are a few White and Red Pine which were planted in '99. Note also the wintertime deer trail beginning in the lower right portion of the image, and proceeding far into the distance; followed end-to-end, this trail can be plainly followed for over half a mile; without the snow, it would be difficult to discern, as it travels mostly through tall weeds/grasses.


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