# hunting with dogs



## bigbuckdown (Sep 7, 2007)

i am new to the forum and was wondering how many of you guys hunt bear with dogs? i used to live in WI and hunted bear with dogs for years over there. i was also wondering when the running season starts here and when the kill season starts.


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## SneakyPete (Apr 26, 2006)

Not me, just doesn't seem sporting to me, never understood the Carolina's either that run deer with dogs...


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## hiawathahunter (Aug 20, 2004)

bigbuckdown,

You will find that this site seems to be very negative towards hunting bears with dogs. Its very unfortunate, because until you've tried it...you just don't understand. I have all the respect in the world for people who use dogs to hunt bear and have found that they are the most concerned group of sportsman out there. Feel free to come over to MBHA if you are looking for discussion on hounds, seasons, etc.... They were run off this site a long time ago.

hh


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## ed222 (Jun 5, 2007)

what is mbha? im interested. I love hunting with hounds. im leaving tonight for canada.


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## SneakyPete (Apr 26, 2006)

Michigan Bear Hunting Association.


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## hiawathahunter (Aug 20, 2004)

Michigan Bear Hunters Association


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## jackbob42 (Nov 12, 2003)

This will be 35 years for me.


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## Nimrod1 (Apr 26, 2004)

I've only been on one hound hunt, and that was as a particapent, not as a hunter. I've always said that I will do that again. It was an absolute blast! It was a real "family" type group, young kids, old women, and everything in between. Those folks know thier dogs, and the bears. Way too cool!:coolgleam


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## wyle_e_coyote (Aug 13, 2004)

IMO...Hound hunting is the best! A lot more exciting then sitting a bait for 5-6 hours a day for a week hoping that a bear comes in. I've done both...and hound hunting was much more fun. Funny thing is...I've killed both my bear sitting on a stupid bait pile...:lol:.


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## kolarchi (Mar 20, 2006)

I agree you can't beat hound hunting.


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## jackbob42 (Nov 12, 2003)

If anyone is serious about getting into houndoggin' , we're looking to add a couple of guys to our group.
Just an idea.


hiawathahunter - We hunt the Hiawatha. If you think you might want to hang out for a day or two , PM me before tuesday. I'm coming up wednesday.


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## hiawathahunter (Aug 20, 2004)

Bob,

Thanks for the offer, but I've got my hands full right now baiting for seven guys. Good luck this season.

hh


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## bigbuckdown (Sep 7, 2007)

i have never tried hunting over bait, but after running dogs i dont think i would want to. gives me a huge adrenalin rush when u walk into a tree with ten barking dogs around it staring up at a bear.


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## soggybtmboys (Feb 24, 2007)

I would like to try it sometime, however, not sure if I will in Michigan. The houndsman managed to get an injunction against trapping bobcats in the NLP. Too many friends have had trespassing problems with that group. Another group of buddies have had problems with stolen traps and molested trap sites because of guys running their hounds right down a trapline. Guys starting their dogs off of active baits....etc....etc. Think you get the picture.

I harbor no ill will, not happy with the stunt last year about the bobcat thing, but this my friend is exactly why the houndsmen are not real popular among rank and file outdoorsmen in this State........in my humble opinion.


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## jmgtrap (Jun 16, 2007)

Well said Soggybtmboys. I could'nt agree with you more. We've had fox traps molested by bird hunters too, but thats not to say all houndsman are bad.
Its always the few that give the rest a bad name.

JMGTRAP


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## Tecumseh (Aug 13, 2004)

When I finally get a tag I plan on hunting behind a pack. It has always been something I wanted to experience and feel that I better try it next time around because you never know how long it will be around in the future.


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## SPH (Jan 20, 2004)

jmgtrap said:


> Well said Soggybtmboys. I could'nt agree with you more. We've had fox traps molested by bird hunters too, but thats not to say all houndsman are bad.
> Its always the few that give the rest a bad name.
> 
> JMGTRAP



I think everyone picks on the hound guys but the same could be said for sloppy deer hunters and no one ever says stop deer hunting. And there are a lot more poaching, trespassing deer hunters in this state than hound guys in my honest opionion. Deer hunters own the land from October - December and everyone else seems to be in there way. I am a deer hunter but get kind of tired of the hound guy theory when they are not the worst offenders but seem to get targeted more.

I for one would love to hunt for bear behind a pack of hounds!!!!


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## lang49 (Aug 1, 2005)

soggybtmboys said:


> I harbor no ill will, not happy with the stunt last year about the bobcat thing, but this my friend is exactly why the houndsmen are not real popular among rank and file outdoorsmen in this State........in my humble opinion.


I couldn't agree more!


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## peggy_jeff (Sep 8, 2007)

soggybtmboys said:


> I would like to try it sometime, however, not sure if I will in Michigan. The houndsman managed to get an injunction against trapping bobcats in the NLP. Too many friends have had trespassing problems with that group. Another group of buddies have had problems with stolen traps and molested trap sites because of guys running their hounds right down a trapline. Guys starting their dogs off of active baits....etc....etc. Think you get the picture.
> 
> I harbor no ill will, not happy with the stunt last year about the bobcat thing, but this my friend is exactly why the houndsmen are not real popular among rank and file outdoorsmen in this State........in my humble opinion.


I think that someone started there dogs around my bait Sat. ,i was on the other side of the swamp from my bait and could hear hounds and now i havn't had a hit in two days.Was getting hit every day.Hound season should be last,IMO.


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## benster (Jul 31, 2006)

There are always a few bad apples that give any hunting a bad name. My only problem with dog hunting is that a dog is just doing his job when let loose. The problem I see in our area is that the hunters let their dogs go on a small 80 acer piece of state land that is surrounded by private land and let them go. I had 11 dogs at my cabin two weeks ago and 6 trucks. There is no public land on our road. The other thing is that all these guys hunt in the UP and just run their dogs in the lower? They even knew who in the area had permits and where they baited but didn't mind running all over everyones land. I don't have a problem with dog hunters, I even did it out west, but I think if it was me I would look at a map and not put my dogs in an area that was mostly private where I knew others were baiting?


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

Every year these threads start out nice and seem to turn into a bashing thread in a short order. So far this one isn't to bad yet. I do not hunt with dogs but have in the past and would do so in a heatbeat if I got a chance. But here is something I have done on the past, form a frinship with some bear dog hunters, and in most cases if they know you have a permit they will not run their dogs in you area if it is private. You may say if it is private they should not be there in the first place ,right, but remember that animals don't know about property lines. I live in the heart of the red oak area and I have the deadstream swamp a half mile away'so in most cases a bear is started in there and will run out on private land at some point. 
The dog hunters go by here on a reg bases looking for tracks but I have never seen them start their dogs in my yard as we usually have a bear in it a couple times a week. And as far as someone starting a dog off from a bait pile it may or maynot happen as a bear travels great distances and the bear from that bait pile could have been a half mile away when it was started. Stop and think how many miles a person would have to walk just to find a bait pile to start their dogs off from.


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## soggybtmboys (Feb 24, 2007)

Scout 2 said:


> Every year these threads start out nice and seem to turn into a bashing thread in a short order. So far this one isn't to bad yet. I do not hunt with dogs but have in the past and would do so in a heatbeat if I got a chance. But here is something I have done on the past, form a frinship with some bear dog hunters, and in most cases if they know you have a permit they will not run their dogs in you area if it is private. You may say if it is private they should not be there in the first place ,right, but remember that animals don't know about property lines. I live in the heart of the red oak area and I have the deadstream swamp a half mile away'so in most cases a bear is started in there and will run out on private land at some point.
> The dog hunters go by here on a reg bases looking for tracks but I have never seen them start their dogs in my yard as we usually have a bear in it a couple times a week. And as far as someone starting a dog off from a bait pile it may or maynot happen as a bear travels great distances and the bear from that bait pile could have been a half mile away when it was started. Stop and think how many miles a person would have to walk just to find a bait pile to start their dogs off from.


 
When I find an empty beer can and a snickers wrapper next to my bait pile and boot prints and dog prints left in the sand where I left to see tracks of bears to help judge what is coming in, yeah I would say that some shmuck started off my bait pile.


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## soggybtmboys (Feb 24, 2007)

griffondog said:


> The only real cure that I see for the Northern Lower season is to do away with the bow only season and then rotate the season every other year so the dog guys get first crack one year and the bait sitters get it the next.
> 
> Griff


 
This is not a bad idea Griff and it is fair for both parties.


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## Nwing (Aug 17, 2005)

Brandon said:


> It is a ashame this bashing has come up and that people are saying one group has an advantage over the other. In my opinion it's all in the way you look at it. Just like with deer hunting the weapon a person uses is his or her choice, so your not forced into using it. If you guys are all upset that houndman have an advanage why don't you hunt with hounds yourself. Furthermore why should bait hunters have the first shot at a bear during the season, we are all out there after the same bear in the same conditions. No one has rights over someone else just because they have chosen a different hunting method. I have never been on a hound hunt and have heard all the complaints by bait hunters, about how houndsman are, but I feel as hunters as a whole there are good and there are bad. It's ingnorant if you as a bait hunter will lable all houndsman as bad or unethical just because of what you have heard or because they have chosen a diffrent why to hunt. Or better yet maybe you are just jealous and it makes you feel better to bash someone else because of your failures as a hunter.


Brandon, not trying to single you out, your quote here just happens to cover the majority of what I want to talk about.
I'm a long time hunter, and fwiw I fully supported the MBHA when the attempt 10 years or so to restrict bear hunting in the state was attempted.
Thankfully, their group was around to help protect ALL of our privileges.
That being said...the truth is that there is a major problem right now with how a sizable number(NOT ALL..let me be clear here) of hound hunters act.
We have had hound hunters(both bear and coyote, but generally bear)trespass multiple times per year on our property. They show little, if any regard for private property and seem to have an attitude that it's their "right" to place dogs anywhere they wish, and to go wherever the dogs do. We have had gates cut, vehicles(physically seen, trucks with kennels) go AROUND the gate, through 2 food plots, and then CUT a fence and leave when approached(we were just 2 of us, so did not confront them directly...they had guns and beer, not a good mix!).
I've personally had bear hound hunters steal 3 game cameras off of our land(boot and hound tracks at the camera site, with the truck w/dog kennel having been physically seen parked less then 100 yards away on two track that boarders property). As I see it, it's exactly the "bury our head in the sand, ignore the problem, and blame everyone else" attitude that is giving them a bad name. If the no doubt large majority of them who are good guys, would actually admit there IS a problem with a sizable minority of their membership in how they act...and practice some self-policing, this would go a LONG way's IMO, in helping diffuse some of the hard feelings.
They(MBHA), speak of solidarity...yet they were the first to do all they could to keep trappers out of the picture when it comes to cats in the L.P., when they have the right to hunt cats.
If trapping is bad..then so is hunting..you cannot have it both ways.
My advice to the mbha?
First...admit there IS a problem with how SOME of your members view private land issues, and DEAL with that problem. Educate your members on where to start packs, that you MUST keep off of private land(let the pack run though if you must..but keep your trucks off of the land!), point out that starting dogs on bait is POOR form..and leads to problems.
Second, work with the rest of us, don't try to deflect the blame for YOUR members actions back onto those who have been the victim of those actions. Police your own, come up with an educational plan if you must as to private property rights and how they effect your membership, run workshops on conflict avoidance and how to properly approach a land owner if you MUST access private land. DON'T JUST TRESPASS!!
Third, and this relates to all of the above...dial back the "it's not our fault, we ain't doing nuthin" attitude.
There IS a problem, thats perfectly evident from all of the threads here...if you simply say "we have been run off of here" and continue to ignore the problem, then the next time the anti's go after dog hunting(and sources tell me that time is VERY near...), you unfortunately will have a much more difficult time convincing the rest of the outdoor community to support you.
I know..this will also be taken as a blanket attack, or a bash...but I assure you that I DO support your hunting...I just with that more of your community would practice just a bit of common sense while in the woods..it would go a long way towards smoothing things out.


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## soggybtmboys (Feb 24, 2007)

Nwing said:


> Brandon, not trying to single you out, your quote here just happens to cover the majority of what I want to talk about.
> I'm a long time hunter, and fwiw I fully supported the MBHA when the attempt 10 years or so to restrict bear hunting in the state was attempted.
> Thankfully, their group was around to help protect ALL of our privileges.
> That being said...the truth is that there is a major problem right now with how a sizable number(NOT ALL..let me be clear here) of hound hunters act.
> ...


 
Bravo and well said!


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## lang49 (Aug 1, 2005)

Nwing said:


> (let the pack run though if you must..but keep your trucks off of the land!),


The practice of letting the pack run through private land (especially large tracts) is not legal. The recreational tresspass act indicates that a hunter must be "within sight and sound" of the dog. Allowing a dog to run through an 80 acre tract will definitely result in violation of this requirement.

Many ignorant hunters have said time and time again that their dogs are unable to recognize and obey posted property lines. My response to it- No Sh**! It's the hunters responsibilty to control the dog. 

This same "Sight and sound" requirement exists even on public land!


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## soggybtmboys (Feb 24, 2007)

There also should be a land size requirement, before allowing pack hunting of animals begins. Ie, minimum acreage size of private land or public land.


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## FMann (May 12, 2007)

lang49 said:


> The practive of letting the pack run through private land (especially large tracts) is not legal. The recreational tresspass act indicates that a hunter must be "within sight and sound" of the dog. Allowing a dog to run through an 80 acre tract will definitely result in violation of this requirement.
> 
> Many ignorant hunters have said time and time again that their dogs are unable to recognize and obey posted property lines. My response to it- No Sh**! It's the hunters responsibilty to control the dog.
> 
> This same "Sight and sound" requirement exists even on public land!


 
Have you ever hunted with a hound? I can hear my **** hound when he is over a 1/2 mile away, this is when he is by himself. Now you put him in a pack and they are even easier to hear. So how can you say that you can't hear a hound or pack of hounds over 80 acres away?

To the person that was talking about haveing several game camras stolen. Did you contact the Law? If you seen them and thier truck you should have been able to give the local law inforcement a good discription of the person or persons involved and gotten your property back.

To the person I quoted eariler in this thread on here about the time of day. I only took an assumtion of the time, as most bears move in the early or late day this means you where placing your bait in the middle of the afternoon so as not to "ruin" your bait station. That is how I know what time it was.

Now to the folks on here that think "Bait hunter" put in more time and there for deserve a first hunt. Do you relize how long it takes to "Train" a bear hound? Most jump dogs are 5-7 years old and have been running bears for most of thier lifes from the time they are 1 year old. As most hound hunters run a pack of 4-10 dogs this would mean they have a adverage time of training of 5 to 30 years per pack. So compare this to 2-8 weeks of baiting each year and I see the hound hunters having a lot more time invested in bear hunting than the bait hunters. If the bait hunter has the bears leave his bait for any reason he would loose 2-12 weeks of hunting a year, now if a hound hunter has his pack killed either by a bear,wolf or someother such thing he looses 5-30 years of time invested. I know of 2 hound hunters that lost 10 dogs 2 years ago. Between them they had over 15 years in these 10 dogs. I would say that is alot more of a investment then 2-12 weeks of scouting/baiting.

Now for most of the book bears being put ther by hound hunters because of a "unfair advantage". This is [email protected]$^& more hound hunters get more tags because they kill more bears then the bait hunters ther for it only stands to reason that they would kill more book bears. Like someone else said they can walk into a tree with a bear up the tree and judge the size of it and either shot it or not. This results in more biger bears being taken by hound hunters.

This is just my 2 cents for what it is worth.


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## Nwing (Aug 17, 2005)

> Have you ever hunted with a hound? I can hear my **** hound when he is over a 1/2 mile away, this is when he is by himself. Now you put him in a pack and they are even easier to hear. So how can you say that you can't hear a hound or pack of hounds over 80 acres away?
> 
> To the person that was talking about haveing several game camras stolen. Did you contact the Law? If you seen them and thier truck you should have been able to give the local law inforcement a good discription of the person or persons involved and gotten your property back.


You may be able to hear dogs a half mile away, but you generally cannot see them. The law says SIGHT and sound. You conveniently forgot about the sight part.
As to the cameras, no, I didn't contact the police, as I know what is required to get an arrest(and conviction) and seeing the tracks(human and dog) with a nearby car is not enough proof. I know darn well they took the camera(and this is not the first time..I had nearly the exact same thing happen on PUBLIC land a couple of years ago), but "proof", no, not enough for a legal issue.
It does not change the fact that it happened, however.
Beyond that..I'll just state again that the continued efforts by SOME dog hunters to skirt, or ignore the law entirely when it comes to trespass issue, will be the death knell of your sport.
Please..for ALL of our sakes....clean up your act before it's too late, and we all suffer for it.


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## fishwhisperer (Sep 12, 2007)

:evilsmileThey kill more bears because they are starting their dogs on someone else's bait.Why is it so hard to have a compromise here. What is the big deal if dog hunters were to hunt after the bait hunters.How would you like it you were huntimg deer and a guy come in and let a dog run off your deer that you were watching.

Yes there is more to training a dog to hunt but that is not the issue. It is when you can hunt that same dog.All you dog hutners that hunt bear are a bunch of hipocrits and no ethics and concern for the law.


FMann said:


> Have you ever hunted with a hound? I can hear my **** hound when he is over a 1/2 mile away, this is when he is by himself. Now you put him in a pack and they are even easier to hear. So how can you say that you can't hear a hound or pack of hounds over 80 acres away?
> 
> To the person that was talking about haveing several game camras stolen. Did you contact the Law? If you seen them and thier truck you should have been able to give the local law inforcement a good discription of the person or persons involved and gotten your property back.
> 
> ...


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## pogo56 (Sep 14, 2007)

first of all i **** hunt with hounds, bear hunt with bait and hounds, cat hunt with hounds, and yote hunt with hounds, i also trap ****, beaver, would trap cats but its not legal where i live...going to give coyote a try this year...not all hound hunters are bad....i killed a bear 2 years ago...with out the use of hounds....i think that there should be a baiting season before a hound season....i also help run a baiting service with some local guys...but on saturdays and sundays i run hounds on bear....you want to talk about hipocrits and such....you have to look at some bait hunters...i have only ben running bear for 5 years....in mostly the same spots...but whats this a fella from a town two countys away gets a bear permit...but wait wheres he gona bait....take a guess ....now lets hear about how hound hunters run off of THEIR baits....when in fact...where do you think a bear that crossed the road was headed??? prolly to somones bates...." no concern for the law" i havent quite figured that out yet....my dogs are licsned and taged...i dont speed.....ok my old hunten buggie may not be quite fit for the high way but your not driving it so it aint none of your bis....now id would be great if i seen or treed every bear we run but thats far from the case....i have seen two bear this year during traning season...my group treed one while i wasent there....now thats hunting from the beginer of training to now....and its not hound hunters that make bear go nocturnal so we dont even want to go there....if fact if there is a bear hitten a bait and you dont see him during the day its prolly the hunters falt...


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## Kevin Smith (Jul 16, 2003)

bigbuckdown said:


> i am new to the forum and was wondering how many of you guys hunt bear with dogs? i used to live in WI and hunted bear with dogs for years over there. i was also wondering when the running season starts here and when the kill season starts.


Hey bigbuckdown

Training starts July 15
Kill season starts in September and is broken up by hunt units and periods.
See the www.mi.gov/dnr site for hunting regs and specifics.

Quite a few guys here go to Wi for the first week or two of July. All reports indicate a good number of bear. 
Who did you run with there?


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## soggybtmboys (Feb 24, 2007)

pogo56 said:


> first of all i **** hunt with hounds, bear hunt with bait and hounds, cat hunt with hounds, and yote hunt with hounds, i also trap ****, beaver, would trap cats but its not legal where i live...going to give coyote a try this year...not all hound hunters are bad....i killed a bear 2 years ago...with out the use of hounds....i think that there should be a baiting season before a hound season....i also help run a baiting service with some local guys...but on saturdays and sundays i run hounds on bear....you want to talk about hipocrits and such....you have to look at some bait hunters...*i have only ben running bear for 5 years....in mostly the same spots...but whats this a fella from a town two countys away gets a bear permit...but wait wheres he gona bait....take a guess ....now lets hear about how hound hunters run off of THEIR baits....when in fact...where do you think a bear that crossed the road was headed???* prolly to somones bates...." no concern for the law" i havent quite figured that out yet....my dogs are licsned and taged...i dont speed.....ok my old hunten buggie may not be quite fit for the high way but your not driving it so it aint none of your bis....now id would be great if i seen or treed every bear we run but thats far from the case....i have seen two bear this year during traning season...my group treed one while i wasent there....now thats hunting from the beginer of training to now....and its not hound hunters that make bear go nocturnal so we dont even want to go there....if fact if there is a bear hitten a bait and you dont see him during the day its prolly the hunters falt...


 
I would say that if you were hunting private land and the baiter was trespassing, you would have a legitimate complaint. If it is public land, you have no beef. Just because you have run your dogs there for 5 years, does not give you some sort of 'seniority rights' to the public land. It is public.


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## peggy_jeff (Sep 8, 2007)

FMann said:


> Have you ever hunted with a hound? I can hear my **** hound when he is over a 1/2 mile away, this is when he is by himself. Now you put him in a pack and they are even easier to hear. So how can you say that you can't hear a hound or pack of hounds over 80 acres away?
> 
> To the person that was talking about haveing several game camras stolen. Did you contact the Law? If you seen them and thier truck you should have been able to give the local law inforcement a good discription of the person or persons involved and gotten your property back.
> 
> ...


Well Fman you quoted me as to what time i was in the woods on the other side of the swamp the day i heard the hounds , and for your info it was morning and i wasn't baiting, i was running my bird dogs .I never said anybody was the bad guy or i didnt like people that ran dogs .I said it sounded like somebody started there dogs AROUND my bait, not on it .I dont have a proplem with hound hunters .I think it is the DNR that should look at the regs.For the Lower and may be make them like the Upper.You dont think dog hunters have an advantage?LOL .Would you kill more ***** without dogs ? I know i have an advantage with my Bird dogs than someone without dogs . You said it,Hound hunters get more tags because they kill more bears than bait hunters .Any how i didn't want to start a pissin match.In my oppinion, i said that i thought that hound hunter should go on a last season hunt in Red Oak.


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## FMann (May 12, 2007)

I don't bear hunt, I do hope most of you guys (both baiters and hound hunters) get your bears. I don't know why the DNR wouldn't consider allowing a quiet time for a couple weeks and letting the bait hunters have the first week or two of a season. 

The one thing I do know is we (all on this thread) are giving the anti's something to work with when they try and band hunting with hounds or bait or anything else they can consive. I just wish we could all get along both the bait hunters and the hound hunters.


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