# Traps after dark



## D Buck (Oct 22, 2004)

My son and I got stopped tonight by the state Police.Someone called in , we were checking traps after dark. We had a 22 and the cop got nervous. After a while he let us go.It was my property, someone called in , saw lights.Can you carry a gun or shoot after dark on a trapline? Three cop cars 
before we left. He did not like the 25 round clip either, and told me to look that up.


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## PsEbUcKmAsTeR17 (Oct 5, 2005)

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]*Fur Harvester Rules*[/FONT] 
[SIZE=-1]*It is illegal to:*

Use any kind of a trap other than a foothold, body-gripping or conibear-type trap unless specifically otherwise provided.
Use a foothold trap with a jaw spread exceeding a number 2 foothold trap when taking mink or muskrat.
Use snares or live traps. *Exceptions:* See Beaver and Otter Trapping Regulations, Winter Fox and Coyote Non-Lethal Snaring, and Live Traps.
[*]Use or have in possession or transport in an area frequented by wild animals a catching device of any kind without permanent etching or a metal tag bearing the user&#8217;s name and address or Michigan Driver License number. *Exception:* See Beaver and Otter Trapping Regulations.
[*]Set a steel trap within 50 feet of any water in Zone 1 before October 25, before November 1 in Zone 2 or before November 10 in Zone 3, unless a duffer-type, egg-type, or similarly designed leghold trap for raccoon is used, or a body gripping or conibear trap as stated in the following bullet. See zone descriptions & map.
[*]Set a body-gripping or conibear-type trap larger than six inches in diameter on dry land or over frozen submerged bottomlands on publicly owned lands or commercial forest lands, unless it is four feet or more above the ground or placed in a box or similar container inaccessible to dogs.
[*]Molest or disturb the house, hole, nest, burrow or den of a badger, beaver, mink, muskrat or raccoon, whether occupied or not, or molest or destroy a beaver dam, except under a DNR Wildlife Damage Investigation and Control Permit.
[*]Set a trap on a beaver dam or lodge unless the trap is submerged below the water.
[*]Transport or possess live game taken from the wild, except under a rehabilitation permit or as specified in a Wildlife Damage Investigation and Control Permit.
[*]Stake, put out or set a catching device at any time before the day on which the open season begins.
[*]Use a multiple catch or colony trap except for taking muskrats, provided the trap is completely submerged. Colony traps must be constructed of steel and be no larger than six inches high, six inches wide and 24 inches deep (nuisance control operators MAY use colony traps for muskrats and other species.)
[*]Bring a live raccoon or skunk into Michigan.
*[*]Shoot a muskrat, beaver, otter, mink, fisher, or marten except under DNR permit. Badgers in traps may be shot (see next bullet.)
[*]Coyote, fox, raccoon, bobcat, and badger may be killed in traps by furtakers using .22 caliber or smaller rimfire firearms, except for junior fur harvesters with trap only licenses
[*]Trappers are legally required to check restraining type traps and snares designed to hold animals alive at least once each day in Zones 2 and 3 and at least once within each 48 hour period in Zone 1. It is highly recommended that trappers check restraining type traps and snares daily.*
*
Live Traps​As a substitute for leghold traps, trappers may use live traps capable of taking only one animal at a time within 450 feet of an occupied dwelling and associated buildings during the legal time for trapping the target animal. Live traps must be checked daily. Any animal captured in a live trap must be immediately killed or released; it is illegal to take these game animals or protected animals live from the wild. It is also illegal to hold these animals in captivity.​
Bait​You may use parts of furbearing animals, woodchuck, and red squirrel as bait in trapping. However, no other game or protected animals may be used as bait. Your bait should be placed where it is not visible to nontarget species such as owls, hawks and eagles.​[/SIZE] 

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10363_10880-31600--,00.html


Based on Red Bold I would say no. But I am not sure so dont hold me to it. Hope this helps you. 

-Psebuckmaster17-*


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## mudflapimmc (Dec 19, 2005)

D Buck said:


> My son and I got stopped tonight by the state Police.Someone called in , we were checking traps after dark. We had a 22 and the cop got nervous. After a while he let us go.It was my property, someone called in , saw lights.Can you carry a gun or shoot after dark on a trapline? Three cop cars
> before we left. He did not like the 25 round clip either, and told me to look that up.


 i'm not sure where you live but, the last time i checked it's your property and if your not disturbing the peace you should be fine. as to the officer telling you to look up the 25 rnd mag, isn't it his job to know the law?


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## Avidhunter (Feb 23, 2004)

While it may be legal, a 25 round clip might seem suspicious to a cop for trapping purposes. JJ :16suspect


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## Joe R. (Jan 9, 2002)

Yes you are legal to carry a firearm at night while checking your traps. I do believe that it has to be unloaded except for when doing the dispatch. In other words you just can't walk through the woods with a light and a loaded gun. I believe it is mentioned in the guide, but I'm not sure where.

Joe


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## magnumhntr (Aug 18, 2003)

I asked that question in the law forum.

Here is the link....

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128681


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## Northcountry (Feb 4, 2004)

I'm with Joe R. on this, and I have talked to my local CO about dispatch with a .22 after dark.

Killing ("dispatching") an animal in a trap is not hunting. Shooting is an allowable method of dispatch, and PSEBuckMaster17 shows *bold red* text where this is mentioned in the guide. It doesnt stipulate that any particular light level or time of day must be considered. It says that .22 or smaller rimfire may be used to kill certain animals in traps.


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## Joe R. (Jan 9, 2002)

Although I'm not 100% sure on this it might be listed under the artifical light section..

Joe


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## Northcountry (Feb 4, 2004)

Joe R.,

No doubt, this issue resides pretty deep in the gray area...in respect to the Hunting/Trapping Guide publication.

As I mentioned earlier, I spoke with my local CO about using my .22 cal sidearm at night (actually pre-dawn, but dark nonetheless) to dispatch catches in my traps. I also wanted him to tell me whether or not I could affix an active laser to my gun (which emits a red dot onto target), so I could more accurately put the bullet between the eyes. 

My confusion was based on the fact that "lights" have many restrictions while hunting, and active lasers are illegal for hunting....but I'm not hunting, I'm trapping.

He gave me the go-ahead to use the laser-equipped gun for this purpose...and told me to reference his name if any CO wanted to charge me with an offense.

But I suggest that no one use this post (only) as basis for their actions. If youre in doubt about the law, contact a CO and convince yourself. I never take anyones word on the law, I research things for myself.


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## bf281 (Dec 28, 2003)

I just spoke with Northcountry regarding this very issue yesterday. It seems that the law is being interpreted differently by different CO's. I sent an E-mail to my district DNR contact agent and asked for clarification on the issue. I am awaiting a response. I explained to her that most of us trappers also have to actually work for a living and must check traps before or after work which in the winter months means under darkness. I will let you know what reply I get when I receive it. I would suggest that others should also contact their local offices to find out how the CO's are going to read the law in your area since they will be the ones stopping you. Let us know what they tell you.


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## lwingwatcher (Mar 25, 2001)

Northcountry said:


> My confusion was based on the fact that "lights" have many restrictions while hunting, and active lasers are illegal for hunting....but I'm not hunting, I'm trapping.
> 
> I never take anyones word on the law, I research things for myself.


Better do some more research surrounding the permitted uses of artificial lights.


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## Northcountry (Feb 4, 2004)

lwingwatcher said:


> Better do some more research surrounding the permitted uses of artificial lights.


Why would you suggest that, Lwing? I had two very clear and concise conversations with my local CO and was given the answers that I needed.


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## Joe R. (Jan 9, 2002)

Well I looked through the guide and couldn't find anything. There is however a stipulation for the amount of shells a shotgun or centerfire rifle can hold (six in the chamber and magazine combined). .22 rimfires are exempt from this rule so you would be legal with the 25 round clip.

Joe


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## lwingwatcher (Mar 25, 2001)

Northcountry said:


> I had two very clear and concise conversations with my local CO and was given the answers that I needed.



Hey...no problem...you have the answers you need. 

Prolly most of us would feel better following the guidelines printed in the book, at least I know I would. To each their own....


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## Northcountry (Feb 4, 2004)

Fair enough Lwing, glad I have your blessings...that really means alot.

But, as is very evident from the posts, this issue is not cut-and-dried. You can read the regs until youre blue in the face, if youre not already, and not find a clear answer.

Trapping is not hunting.


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## lwingwatcher (Mar 25, 2001)

Northcountry said:


> Trapping is not hunting.



I don't hunt with a trap any more than you trap with a gun.

The issue is not hunting or trapping--it is the permitted use of firearms and artificial lights.

BTW: Wrong again....I don't even know where my copy of the game laws is in this mess of an office....
:lol:


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## bf281 (Dec 28, 2003)

lwingwatcher said:


> I don't hunt with a trap any more than you trap with a gun.
> 
> The issue is not hunting or trapping--it is the permitted use of firearms and artificial lights.
> 
> ...





Not knowing where your book of game laws are is like having a dusty bible. Neither on are any good unless you read them.


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## Northcountry (Feb 4, 2004)

Well lets see here....

Lwing says its not legal, but my local CO says it is legal.

Hmmm...wonder who I should listen to? :lol:


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## lwingwatcher (Mar 25, 2001)

Northcountry said:


> Well lets see here....
> 
> Lwing says its not legal, but my local CO says it is legal.
> 
> Hmmm...wonder who I should listen to? :lol:


Did you even bother to read the link to another thread where Boehr answered that very question. Laugh at me all day long but, I would tend to place a little more credence in what Boehr said in writing v what you say your CO said.....

And that is just dealing with the use of the firearm...not the need for a friggin laser for trapping...
:lol:


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## Northcountry (Feb 4, 2004)

Lwing,

My CO called me back after conferring with two other CO's and his LT. Good enough for me, buddy. :lol: 

I'm outta here, answer has been given to original poster, have fun in your tormented reality.


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## tommytubular (Jan 25, 2002)

I think you two should just get married.....you both bicker like you are....ya might as well co-habitate and do it in person and keep it off of the boards.

Sheeeesh!

No offenece to either...


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## lwingwatcher (Mar 25, 2001)

Hey Tommytubular...

Thank goodness that we have a special forum for questions concerning hunting and fishing law. That way, readers stand half a chance of getting information from a credible source.

The internet is full of information....some of if is just misinformation....:lol:


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## Northcountry (Feb 4, 2004)

lwingwatcher said:


> Did you even bother to read the link to another thread where Boehr answered that very question. Laugh at me all day long but, I would tend to place a little more credence in what Boehr said in writing v what you say your CO said.....


 
Boehr just PM'd me the following...

*"Do what your local CO said was ok. I think you will have no problem in what you describe doing."
*
How do you want your crow served, Lwing? :lol:


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## lwingwatcher (Mar 25, 2001)

Northcountry said:


> Boehr just PM'd me the following...
> 
> *"Do what your local CO said was ok. I think you will have no problem in what you describe doing."
> *
> How do you want your crow served, Lwing? :lol:


Don't go digging into your stash of crow just yet ....did you read the reply on the legal forum? I would think that if Boehr had wanted everybody and their brother to read the advice you quote from the PM--I would think that he would have posted it rather than send you a PRIVATE MESSAGE. Oh well...

And....what causes problems and doesn't cause problems often has very little to do with the way the law is written, only interpreted and applied.

Boehr is right---if the only folks enforcing the law in your neck of the woods think it is ok--you prolly won't have any problems. But....I would prefer to have the letter of the law to back justify my actions rather than officer opinion or discretion.... Like I said before...to each their own.


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## Northcountry (Feb 4, 2004)

lwingwatcher said:


> And....what causes problems and doesn't cause problems often has very little to do with the way the law is written, only interpreted and applied.


_ding-ding-ding!_ Thats what I said in my post...people need to check with their local CO, not take my word for it.



lwingwatcher said:


> Boehr is right---if the only folks enforcing the law in your neck of the woods think it is ok--you prolly won't have any problems.


Of course Boehr is right, and so was I. You werent.



lwingwatcher said:


> But....I would prefer to have the letter of the law to back justify my actions rather than officer opinion or discretion.


To paraphrase you again...."to each their own".

Lwing, I'm done arguing with you...no challenge to it <yawn> You can shadow box from now on. Bye!


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## lwingwatcher (Mar 25, 2001)

Maybe you should grab your laser sighted .22 and head down river after dark for your trapping excursions....those boys might see things a little differently....when that red dot starts bouncing around just prior to the muzzle flash and report.

Mr....you do have your own way of seeing things...albiet with a laser for trapping....


:lol: :lol: :lol: 

Your ego must be even larger than your groups....:lol:


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## Northcountry (Feb 4, 2004)

Aw shucks...you wanted another thrashing, did ya?  

The reason for the laser (which by the way, I never even did hook up and use), is for the quick, accurate dispatch of coyote at night. I dont consider dispatch of my catch to be a game, a test of marksmanship or manhood, do you? I dont want sport...I want an instantly dead animal, that never even hears the report of the gun. Its called using the best tool you can, to humanely kill your catch. Problem with that?

Have you ever tried to dispatch a coyote on an 8-foot drag chain, in the dark, with ironsights, as it fights and thrashes? Apparently not. I do it all the time.


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## PsEbUcKmAsTeR17 (Oct 5, 2005)

lwingwatcher,

Im not sure where you get your facts from, because I dont remember anywhere on the DNR site/ in the reg book, that says you cannot use a sight that cast a beam on a target *for trapping*. I agree with NC 100% on that. Also I dont remember anyone asking for the regs on having a laser on a gun when checking traps. I think NC simply said that he talked to a CO that told him that it was legal. So I dont see where you have a problem with that, beside you want to start an arguement. 

Have a nice day!!! 

-Psebuckmaster17-


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## bf281 (Dec 28, 2003)

I am still awaiting the reply from th LT. in my district but here is the reply I received from the "ask the DNR" on their website.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Response (Jaqueline Waber) - 02/22/2006 03:27 PM
The hunting and trapping regulations as set forth in the Wildlife 
Conservation Order allow for the use of .22 caliber or smaller rimfire 
firearms to kill raccoon, coyote, bobcat, fox, and badger in traps.

The order also exempts trapping from the hunting hours restriction. 
The order goes on to require that while afield with a firearm or bow 
during nighttime hours, the firearm shall be unloaded in the barrel and 
magazine and an arrow cannot be nocked and must be stored in a quiver.

Therefore, while checking traps during nighttime hours, a licensed 
trapper may carry afield a firearm provided it is unloaded in both the 
barrel and magazine and may be loaded only at the point of kill.


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## lwingwatcher (Mar 25, 2001)

bf281 said:


> I am still awaiting the reply from th LT. in my district but here is the reply I received from the "ask the DNR" on their website.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Response (Jaqueline Waber) - 02/22/2006 03:27 PM
> ...



Now the above is something that is more definitive. 

So, LE normally wouldn't see any 25 round mags protruding from a magazine well or lasers lighting up the area or....unless it was at the point of kill for specified critters.. That makes sense.


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