# Can a cop do this?



## micooner (Dec 20, 2003)

Thirty pointer said:


> Open wire crate or covered box crate ?


 it was a porta kennel brand. plastic type with the vents on side and wire mesh front door. I wasn't there, son had borrowed my dog.


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

trucker3573 said:


> I doubt it even matters if he could or couldn’t. I mean it would totally piss me off but even if he was wrong I can guarantee the department will do nothing over it. The dog went back in and everyone left the same as they came.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah like I say if you make a complaint then it might lower the chance of it happening again. But I don't see them ever admitting they were wrong. Let alone legal action I mean this is the country where police literally murder people on tape and aren't convicted. 

You threaten them and the only thing you'll get is a pissing match with a small town ego which you'll likely lose and potentially lose your dog for real. I doubt there's a whole lot of due process surrounding animal control.


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## Sharkbait11 (Apr 7, 2017)

micooner said:


> I think what grinded my gears was the fact he took my dog out of the crate and was going to turn him over to animal control. It wasn't the crate that concerned him but the dog raising his hackles up and barking at this lady being nosy. Animal control never came out at the time.


Sounds like the dog is a good judge of character...My shepherd was like that, some people she just didnt want anything to do with and if my dog had a problem with them, there was a good chance I knew they were unstable or found out afterwards they were f-ed up somehow. One day coming into the apartment I was renting after college this creepo drug dealer type guy tried talking to her and she almost bit his hand off. Probably your dog sensed something or the lady was acting weird, unless of course your dog barks at everyone then thats kinda annoying but not enough to call the police.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Dogs crate is it's and it's owner/handlers territory and should be treated as such.
It's not like the dog has a choice.

While in the crate, with exception of pointing a gun at passersby , it poses no possible threat. 
Boy howdy I'd be riled up if anyone took one of my dogs out of a crate without my consent.
And worse , what if the officer got bit by a dog defending it's own security including it's crate?

Stupid deal all around.


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## Dead Bird (Oct 2, 2001)

If I get the story correct... the dog was barking and in a crate.... personal property of the vehicle owner.... no distress to the dog was noticed that required an intervention.... I would like to understand the reason the LEO was attempting to steal your dog.... especially with the magical missing complaint of some person.... there would be at a minimum a call that is recorded and dated to the call to alert the LEO... something really doesn't add up here....

I would be having a conversation with the local press.... the LEO will cover up ASAP... so that is like your puppy chasing a holed up rabbit....

happy that your puppy is OK.....


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## micooner (Dec 20, 2003)

So just got off the phone with Dundee police. Because my beagle was shaking or seemed cold the officer decided to remove the dog from its crate to warm it up and contact animal control. The patrol Sgt I spoke to said from the report he supports his officers actions, no shocker there. Lol. He also stated if they are called again for an unattended dog in any vehicle out at cabelas that they would do the same. So just be aware of their position in Dundee. If it's to hot or to cold or if your dog shakes or shivers and someone calls the officer could decide to take your dog.


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## reddog1 (Jan 24, 2009)

Sounds like I need to load up the hounds and take a trip to Dundee. I keep mine in an insulated dog box thats vented with winter covers on the doors. The door also have lock on them for just such instances. There have been many times where I have came out of a restaurant, store, or gas station and had people bitching about how my dogs were being kept in humanely in the box. Most time I just ignore them and drive away but there have been times when I tell them to call the police I'll wait.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

My dog shakes from nervousness. Lots things set him off. He is a GSP. A stranger peering in at him in his cage without me nearby would certainly make him shake uncontrollably. He looks cold but that definitely isn't the reason. Certain noises from my computer when I work from home does the same thing to him.


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## micooner (Dec 20, 2003)

DirtySteve said:


> My dog shakes from nervousness. Lots things set him off. He is a GSP. A stranger peering in at him in his cage without me nearby would certainly make him shake uncontrollably. He looks cold but that definitely isn't the reason. Certain noises from my computer when I work from home does the same thing to him.


And that's exactly what the son told this officer. He said look in twenty minutes we were going to drop him in a couple inches of snow to run bunnies, do you really think he's cold? Now give me my damn dog back. Lol


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## Lund Explorer (Jan 23, 2011)

I would have thought by this time that everyone knew that when "Karen" shows up, all the normal rules go out the window.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Dogs can run beagles in frigid temps but can't handle a crate with straw for a few minutes. Got it...


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## Mitten state (Dec 13, 2020)

DirtySteve said:


> My dog shakes from nervousness. Lots things set him off. He is a GSP. A stranger peering in at him in his cage without me nearby would certainly make him shake uncontrollably. He looks cold but that definitely isn't the reason. Certain noises from my computer when I work from home does the same thing to him.


That was my first reaction also. My setter and most of the ones that I’ve had all shook out of excitement when e-collars came out or when being loaded in crates ect. When that lightbulb goes off that we’re going hunting they all shake and get the happy feet.

I’m glad that I don’t live downstate. I’m surprised that it would happen anywhere but can’t imagine it happening up at a Jay’s parking lot.


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## kisherfisher (Apr 6, 2008)

Just for understanding how this works. A call comes in about a dog shaking in a crate or whatever. The dispatch cannot make the determination to blow it off, no can the officer on scene . HE probably is not a hunter or he would have handled it differently. All good in the end. Handle differently ? maybe, but it was his decisions and the how and why. I , too see, many bad things could have happened. What if the dog got loose in the lot . Worse hit by a car. The officer got bit when he should not have even handled it. What if the caller was making the whole story up because she "felt" sorry for the animal(most likely in this day). Again all ended well, and many ways to handle it. Give it a break.


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## Rasher (Oct 14, 2004)

DirtySteve said:


> My dog shakes from nervousness. Lots things set him off. He is a GSP. A stranger peering in at him in his cage without me nearby would certainly make him shake uncontrollably. He looks cold but that definitely isn't the reason. Certain noises from my computer when I work from home does the same thing to him.


Mine will too, when he wants inside-it could be 80* outside he act like he is in a deep freeze.


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## reddog1 (Jan 24, 2009)

This is my Mastiff's after being out for 10 minutes


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

reddog1 said:


> View attachment 624273
> 
> This is my Mastiff's after being out for 10 minutes


We all just made a report to animal control. Those are some deprived pups right there.


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## bobberbill (Apr 5, 2011)

Cop could have sat in his car and waited until the owner came back to the truck. They sit in their car all shift anyhow.


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## pgpn123 (May 9, 2016)

Good you called and got an explanation. Must have been a slow morning at Cabela's.


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## reddog1 (Jan 24, 2009)

This is how I haul my hounds when I'm going to the Island or anywhere for more than 2 day's and I still get harassed by animal rights idiots.


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## Lucky Dog (Jul 4, 2004)

I guess the moral of the story is always keep your kennel locked.


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## fowl (Feb 15, 2003)

My dogs are kenneled in back of truck with a cap, locked. Always well taken care of with warm bedding in the cold and good ventilation in warm temps. That cop was completely out of line. Put a lock on the kennel to prevent any future issues. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

kisherfisher said:


> Just for understanding how this works. A call comes in about a dog shaking in a crate or whatever. The dispatch cannot make the determination to blow it off, no can the officer on scene . HE probably is not a hunter or he would have handled it differently. All good in the end. Handle differently ? maybe, but it was his decisions and the how and why. I , too see, many bad things could have happened. What if the dog got loose in the lot . Worse hit by a car. The officer got bit when he should not have even handled it. What if the caller was making the whole story up because she "felt" sorry for the animal(most likely in this day). Again all ended well, and many ways to handle it. Give it a break.


What if? Is that a new children's game? :lol:


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## Rooster_Smasher (Oct 18, 2003)

They would have been putting me in the cop car and hauling me away. I would have been pretty pissed. 
The lady walked by the truck and saw the dog and started talking to the dog "Oh poor baby, look at you, you must be cold" the dog started whining, so she called the police. Typical hunting breed. Strangers talk to my dogs while their in the crate and they start whining and yes, sometimes start shaking(just an AMP'ed up shorthair). 9 times outta 10 its because they are AMP'ed up and ready to go for a hunt. We all know how they are when we go from smooth black top roads and hit the dirt road, they start whining because they know they are close to the hunting grounds or training fields. The lady had the right to call, but the cop pulling the dog from the crate was WRONG. Illegal. NO, but wrong. He would have gotten an ear full from me thats for sure. 
I've had people say crap like why is she whining, or its cruel to put her in that crate. Number one she is whining because she is JACKED to go training or hunting Number 2 she is in the crate is the safest place for her while traveling. Number 3 its her domain, her cave, her spot. I leave the crates in my house open and when the dogs are just hanging out chilling they go to their crate on their own. Like I said "Its their cave". 
I would have been pissed and I would have had every right to be pissed. If it was 85 degrees out and the dog was in there panting etc... Yes, the cop has every right to save that animal. 

Just my 2 cents, now I'm broke.

Rooster.


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## kisherfisher (Apr 6, 2008)

Nostromo said:


> What if? Is that a new children's game? :lol:


For sure , read the all the Monday morning quarterbacks on this site.Woulda, Coulda, Shouda game because none have ever been in this type of game for a living. Make a decision on scene , at the moment , with a crowd watching every move . 20 opinions on how they would have handled it differently , but none really had too. LOL


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## MossyHorns (Apr 14, 2011)

fowl said:


> My dogs are kenneled in back of truck with a cap, locked. Always well taken care of with warm bedding in the cold and good ventilation in warm temps. That cop was completely out of line. Put a lock on the kennel to prevent any future issues.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


Unfortunately it would probably be legal for the cop to cut the lock or even break a window to remove the dog.


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## Lund Explorer (Jan 23, 2011)

MossyHorns said:


> Unfortunately it would probably be legal for the cop to cut the lock or even break a window to remove the dog.


Of course it would have been legal to cut the lock. We live in a society where people (Karens) have to put their noses into things where they don't belong. The LEO is damned if he does or doesn't respond to the facts(?) given to him on the scene. Because the dog's owner isn't anywhere to be seen, then he is only left with Karen's version of the story. Had one of the people with the dog had stayed with the truck, things would have turned out much differently.

There is one sure cure though. If LEO's had the option to charge these butt-in-skis maybe some of them would learn to mind their own business.


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## sullyxlh (Oct 28, 2004)

kisherfisher said:


> Just for understanding how this works. A call comes in about a dog shaking in a crate or whatever. The dispatch cannot make the determination to blow it off, no can the officer on scene . HE probably is not a hunter or he would have handled it differently. All good in the end. Handle differently ? maybe, but it was his decisions and the how and why. I , too see, many bad things could have happened. What if the dog got loose in the lot . Worse hit by a car. The officer got bit when he should not have even handled it. What if the caller was making the whole story up because she "felt" sorry for the animal(most likely in this day). Again all ended well, and many ways to handle it. Give it a break.


All over one big C that can't mind her own business.

This is an example of why red flag laws suck, there's no recourse to go after an accuser.

I'm sure if the accused went of verbally at his accuser, which he had every right to, that the cop would stick up for her instead of letting her get bitch'd out like she deserved.

At the very least she should be billed for the call.


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## kisherfisher (Apr 6, 2008)

sullyxlh said:


> All over one big C that can't mind her own business.
> 
> This is an example of why red flag laws suck, there's no recourse to go after an accuser.
> 
> ...


Should start with the media !


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## milmo1 (Nov 9, 2005)

I was just there 2 weeks ago. Dogs in insulated box, locked. Tailgate locked. Vents closed. If nothing else, it would take some time to get it open. In a case like that, I wonder if the hassle would encourage the officer to go inside and have a page made to find the owner. No plucking dogs from this container. 
Animal cruelty charges are no joke. I had a coworker that left a small dog in his minivan on a 60 degree day. Returned to find he was being charged with animal cruelty. This was in KY or Ohio, I don't recall. Said friend contacted his son-in-law lawyer who advised him to plead guilty, ask for reduced charges. Right or wrong, fighting and losing was too risky. He plead guilty, they reduced charges. Lesson learned.


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## Dead Bird (Oct 2, 2001)

kisherfisher said:


> For sure , read the all the Monday morning quarterbacks on this site.Woulda, Coulda, Shouda game because none have ever been in this type of game for a living. Make a decision on scene , at the moment , with a crowd watching every move . 20 opinions on how they would have handled it differently , but none really had too. LOL


I agree with your LOL comment.... this was a beagle in a secured crate.... this wasn't a situation where a "person" was at risk.... your assumption is probably correct no one on this site had to make a decision on the safety of a scared dog in a crate that the temp was above freezing and below 80 degrees in a locked vehicle....

I understand the puppy could have been soaked in water prior to being placed in the crate and thus hypothermia would be more of a risk factor...

I also agree this may not have totally thought thru by the LEO... so hopefully we at least agree on something....

this is a good learning experience for the young LEO.... assess... evaluate.... than ask for additional input..... only THAN react.... you get paid to do this... regardless of how many people are watching... jumping to conclusions is never a good thing....

just my two cents as a Quarterback.... hopefully you take your own advise and "give it a break"....


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## Lucky Dog (Jul 4, 2004)

MossyHorns said:


> Unfortunately it would probably be legal for the cop to cut the lock or even break a window to remove the dog.


Probably true. But I think it is a different decision for a cop to make to cause damage to private property, than it is to just reach in and grab the dog. Also will prevent a do gooder from reaching in as well.

Actually happened to me while hunting out west. Came out of a store to find a woman trying to let my dog out of the "hot" kennel. Had the kennels not been locked, all 4 of my dogs would have been gone.


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## Rasher (Oct 14, 2004)

My gsp would just wine and try to get out, my lab mix however would growl and act like she would eat your hand, even my dad whom she loved, couldnt open thier crate she would growl and snap at the locks, generally have a s**tfit, if anyone but my wife or I went near the door.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

sullyxlh said:


> All over one big C that can't mind her own business.
> 
> This is an example of why red flag laws suck, there's no recourse to go after an accuser.
> 
> ...


Hunter harassment is what I see.


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

birdhntr said:


> Hunter harassment is what I see.


You know that may have been at the root of all this. Activist cruising the parking lot looking for dogs in crates.


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## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

I leave my windows half open in the truck with the keys in the ignition. I am more worried about if somebody tried to stick their hand in the window. *Any* of my dogs would have the hand or fingers removed. As I said before, my dogs are just like having a loaded gun!


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

Sometimes people get physically assaulted, in this case they would deserve it.

Stupid F's make my blood boil. Best case is ALWAYS mind your own business. There was *clearly* no obvious threat or harm. That cop is a POS, at best.

What would have happened if your son didn't get there in time? Then it is that morons word against your son's, hmmm wonder who they would believe.....

And people say let it go, I for sure would not.


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## kisherfisher (Apr 6, 2008)

To answer the Ops questions , it is a quite apparent YES. Always two sides to the story and in this day and age one is enough and it is not the people at the scene .


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

So I've known announcements to be made in a store for headlights on. Why not this?

And why so urgent for the dog to be removed? Was it just about dead? I don't see the urgency unless there was severe lack of knowledge with both the person reporting and the officer. Seems risky to try to grab some unknown person's dog from what the animal considers a safe place and probably felt cornered.


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

sureshot006 said:


> So I've known announcements to be made in a store for headlights on. Why not this? And why so urgent for the dog to be removed? Was it just about dead? I don't see the urgency unless there was severe lack of knowledge with both the person reporting and the officer. Seems risky to try to grab some unknown person's dog from what the animal considers a safe place and probably felt cornered.


Living things are protected by laws and ordinances. Car batteries are also to the extent that they are personal property. But, announcement for lights left on are simply a courtesy. Our society has become much more concerned about the treatment of animals and the question of whether they are granted greater protection than inanimate property has pretty much been answered.

Those of us who have long experience with dogs may be able to judge ones condition by observing it. dogs that are in danger of exposure to cold will be listless not simply shivering. For someone less experienced it's hard to examine an animal in a crate. So, removing it is pretty much a part of due diligence (phrase used for lack of a better one). Removing it and placing it in a warm environment would follow that train of thought. The Police Chief stood behind his officers actions so that answers the question of appropriateness.

Having said all of that. I don't know of any hunting dog that isn't anxious to get out of the kennel at the end of a truck ride.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

jiggin is livin said:


> Sometimes people get physically assaulted, in this case they would deserve it.
> 
> Stupid F's make my blood boil. Best case is ALWAYS mind your own business. There was *clearly* no obvious threat or harm. That cop is a POS, at best.
> 
> ...


Yes they are crated for safety and to keep them out of trouble.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

People have rights in this country do they not.
On a second note police always stick together for a better outcome for all.
They never step out of bounds rightfully so.It is necessary to stick together as a team.It is a very difficult and complicated job.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

I think a simple letter to the police chief explaining in detail about what the officer actually encountered.
I drove around with four dogs in Kansas and evertime I stopped and opened the truck all of my dogs were shivering and shaking but for a different reason. Drive!
I wish I had the video to show this behavior.
The rattling crates make me excited also.Heck I think I was shaking a few times myself.It is really no different than the excitement a deerhunter experiences in the stand or blind.We have all seen this on tv when the hunter holds up there hand after making the shot.
The shaking of the dog was anticipation which typically starts when you grab the first item associated to going hunting.


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## Scadsobees (Sep 21, 2006)

Why the world would he stop at Cabela's just to pick up some shotgun shells? Aren't there better places around there to get stuff like that?


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Scadsobees said:


> Why the world would he stop at Cabela's just to pick up some shotgun shells? Aren't there better places around there to get stuff like that?


If it were on my way or saw they had them in stock (I've got lots of gift cards) I'd go there too.


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## Buddwiser (Dec 14, 2003)

Scadsobees said:


> Why the world would he stop at Cabela's just to pick up some shotgun shells? Aren't there better places around there to get stuff like that?


Have you tried to buy any type of ammo lately? Cabelas may be the only place in that area that has any left. As for the cop reaching into the crate....what would have happened if the pooch decided he was being threatened and attacked the cops hand...besides a very mangled hand?


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## michiganmaniac (Dec 9, 2008)

I just hope the cop really feels like he made the community a safer place to live on that day. Lol!


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Scadsobees said:


> Why the world would he stop at Cabela's just to pick up some shotgun shells? Aren't there better places around there to get stuff like that?


Yeah why stop at an outdoors store that sells hunting equipment on the way to a day of hunting. What a crazy idea.


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

DirtySteve said:


> Yeah why stop at an outdoors store that sells hunting equipment on the way to a day of hunting. What a crazy idea.


What were they thinking? lol


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

Now you telling me someone picked out some irrelevant detail from the op's post just to troll without providing a constructive contribution to the discussion whatsoever....

....wonder where he would of gotten that example. Completely out of the blue like it was.


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

pgpn123 said:


> A hunting dog is in a crate w straw, in the parking lot of Cabela's during open store hours, and leo thinks it's a good idea to remove the dog? I wonder what the officers boss thinks of this. I bet you'd get an apology, or you could possibly have fun threatening legal action.


Agreed. Common sense would tell me it would have been easier and more practical to at least have the store run a PA announcement about a _possibly _cold dog in a truck. Maybe he should have also considered a hunting dog in a hunting create in the parking log of a hunting store, maybe the dog is shivering because he's ABSOLUTELY STOKED to go hunting, as many hunting dogs do. 

Whatever department this was, it seems they have a lot of time on their hands, maybe they can go help with all the dogs chained up and freezing in Detroit that actually do need help.


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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

From what I've found, there a number of reasons a dog shakes. Just as mentioned here. The number one reason. COLD! Put it to rest!


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## on a call (Jan 16, 2010)

I just wonder how long it will be until it will be illegal to shoot a rabbit, own a dog and eat meat ??


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## fisheater (Nov 14, 2010)

I know I’m going to be lit up. I should know better. I have transported beagles in an air craft kennel in winter. However, with the vents and doors covered with cardboard and a moving blanket ratchet tied over the crate.
While a beagle is fine in mid twenty degree temperatures stationary in a parking lot. It’s quite a different story going 60 miles an hour down the highway.
A plastic kennel, in an open pick up isn’t a reasonable way to transport a dog at 60 miles an hour in mid twenty degree temps. I checked the temp for Sat 12/26 in Dundee.


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

The wind tends to draft around things in a pickup bed. But yeah in general wind chill is an issue getting going. When I took my pigeons over Xmas I put the crate to the front of the bed and wrapped it in a blanket. Dogs go in the cab.


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## micooner (Dec 20, 2003)

fisheater said:


> I know I’m going to be lit up. I should know better. I have transported beagles in an air craft kennel in winter. However, with the vents and doors covered with cardboard and a moving blanket ratchet tied over the crate.
> While a beagle is fine in mid twenty degree temperatures stationary in a parking lot. It’s quite a different story going 60 miles an hour down the highway.
> A plastic kennel, in an open pick up isn’t a reasonable way to transport a dog at 60 miles an hour in mid twenty degree temps. I checked the temp for Sat 12/26 in Dundee.


There is no reason to light you up. I can assure you Ollie the beagle never experienced any travel over 30 mph or expressway travel. The routine is to sight see beautiful Monroe County by its great gravel road system from home north of maybe to dundee. Then to local Milan township farm for bunny running. Psa announcement "No animals were harmed during this event other than 3 rabbits." Lol


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## DoubleJay (Aug 9, 2009)

on a call said:


> I just wonder how long it will be until it will be illegal to shoot a rabbit, own a dog and eat meat ??


If the bitches in DC and Lansing ever get their way with things, maybe a few more years....but I digress! Sorry.


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