# Impacts of the bait ban...



## Matt V

At least in the areas that I hunt, I am pretty sure the guy's that bait are still baiting..... I drive up from Muskegon to Newaygo every weekend and all of the feed stores still have skids of carrots and beets out. There is one guy just outside of Hesperia that sells carrots out of his front yard. On my way up there was a full skid of carrots, on my way home there was only 1 bag left. Those carrots are going somewhere. I will say that both my deer sightings and trail cam pics are way down this year. I would guess due to the removal of all antler restrictions and all of the doe permits handed out in the CWD area. I heard over 400 shots opening day of firearms season last year.


----------



## DecoySlayer

They are making carrot wine. We don't have a poaching problem in Michigan.

https://moonshiners.club/carrot-wine-recipe/


----------



## Divers Down

Double d's said:


> Having a tough time stocking my freezer with yearlings.


Tru, guess we’ll have to bag our spikes and fork horns opening day as usual.


----------



## DecoySlayer

Divers Down said:


> Tru, guess we’ll have to bag our spikes and fork horns opening day as usual.


I am going to use the spots as an aim point


----------



## Thirty pointer

beer and nuts said:


> A lot less hunters. Very few trucks on side roads pulled off to side.


For sure .Took a trip up to the cabin this weekend only seen a couple trucks the entire trip .My thought is many won't bow hunt but will be out for the first couple days of gun .


----------



## Rainman68

It's gonna take a lot more than 2 hunting weekends to determine any change for me, more like years.

2 Years ago - Average acorn crop - average summer.
Last year - Bumper crop acorn year, dry/hot summer.
This year - Not a acorn to be found, wet/mild summer. Also doubled my plots

Deer sightings are normal, summer usually have a couple does with fawn and very few bucks(this is on one camera). September the does are grouping up and different bucks popping in every camera check (after adding a couple more cameras).


----------



## michigandrake

Last year on opening weekend (bow) I counted 30+ vehicles on my drive into the swamp. This year I have yet to see a single one. Most of my spots don't even have tire tracks going into them. I have seen one active stand in the woods and it was not baited. The deer are still bedding in their summer bedding areas and have not moved back into the thick stuff yet. The weather has been bad and the swamp is beyond wet so that may be playing a role but without a doubt in my neck of the woods the hunting pressure is way down to start the season.


----------



## Justin

In my area deer movement seems normal but hunter numbers appear to be down.


----------



## beer and nuts

Acorn crop is good this year around my area.


----------



## Lumberman

Very good start to our season. Both in mature bucks on camera and deer sightings. That more then likely because of the good acorn crop last year. I’m hoping it’s a sign of deer numbers rebounding a little. 

Pressure is very high 4-5 trucks parked every time I’ve went out. 

I would say there’s a slight down tick in bait piles but like mentioned above Halloween is when the majority of bait hits the ground. 
Lots of bait is being sold in Baldwin still. Everyone must be stopping by Baldwin on the way to the UP.....


----------



## broadhead100

Lumberman said:


> Very good start to our season. Both in mature bucks on camera and deer sightings. That more then likely because of the good acorn crop last year. I’m hoping it’s a sign of deer numbers rebounding a little.
> 
> Pressure is very high 4-5 trucks parked every time I’ve went out.
> 
> I would say there’s a slight down tick in bait piles but like mentioned above Halloween is when the majority of bait hits the ground.
> Lots of bait is being sold in Baldwin still. Everyone must be stopping by Baldwin on the way to the UP.....



Be curious to know how the CO's are handling the violators... imagine there gonna be carrying around an extra book of tickets this year.. very few bait in our neck of the woods.. so no real change here..


----------



## d_rek

Wait. Your neighbors stopped baiting?


----------



## stickbow shooter

I haven't found any bait piles yet. I'm guessing more hunters will hitting the woods for gun. They will be doing drives and they can shoot farther then with a bow. Either that or they said to hell with this state. A couple buddy's of mine haven't bought licenses yet and probably won't. They were very bait use dependent when it came to deer hunting.


----------



## beer and nuts

Lots of places NOT selling bait around here.


----------



## d_rek

beer and nuts said:


> Lots of places NOT selling bait around here.


Still seeing pallets of it at every gas station in St. Clair County...


----------



## Divers Down

stickbow shooter said:


> I haven't found any bait piles yet. I'm guessing more hunters will hitting the woods for gun. They will be doing drives and they can shoot farther then with a bow. Either that or they said to hell with this state. A couple buddy's of mine haven't bought licenses yet and probably won't. They were very bait use dependent when it came to deer hunting.


I’m bait dependent during bow and not ashamed to admit it, I’m a meat hunter. For what it’s worth, I’ll end up harvesting fewer deer, maybe that’s what they want. Is what it is.


----------



## DecoySlayer

The mallards have not found my bait pile yet.


----------



## stickbow shooter

Divers Down said:


> I’m bait dependent during bow and not ashamed to admit it, I’m a meat hunter. For what it’s worth, I’ll end up harvesting fewer deer, maybe that’s what they want. Is what it is.


Yea they are not picky on the bucks they kill. Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## Scout 2

beer and nuts said:


> Lots of places NOT selling bait around here.


I don't know if it is true or not but I heard of one place that is on his second load of beets. As far as deer movement I have seen no change. Hunter numbers seem to be way down. Most of the cabins around here are empty on the weekends but it may be weather related


----------



## Chessieman

broadhead100 said:


> Be curious to know how the CO's are handling the violators... imagine there gonna be carrying around an extra book of tickets this year.. very few bait in our neck of the woods.. so no real change here..


I imagine the next bi weekly report will have them counting.

https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-350-79136_79772_86108_81109-509379--,00.html


----------



## Old lund

Chessieman said:


> I imagine the next bi weekly report will have them counting.
> 
> https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-350-79136_79772_86108_81109-509379--,00.html


I’ve been watching the reports for bait too nothing yet still showing up to late September no October yet


----------



## stickbow shooter

Our local gas station isn't carrying bait, surprised me. But there are a couple palaces in Cadillac that are carrying beets . No carrots, probably too easy to spot.


----------



## Scout 2

This is something I have been wondering about. How many people don't even know about a bait ban


----------



## Bucman

We need a bait task force to investigate all the no deer sightings guys may be having!


----------



## TriggerDiscipline

I'm highly skeptical any changes in behavior this year could be attributed to the baiting ban. All the stores are still selling out of bait around here. I've found a couple piles, but mostly apples. I'm thinking people will get a little more covert about it, maybe switch from bright orage carrots and bright yellow corn to apples and sugar beets. Volume of bait might come down too. But overall, I'm thinking people will continue to bait.


----------



## Scout 2

Bucman said:


> We need a bait task force to investigate all the no deer sightings guys may be having!


Maybe Nancy or Chuckie could head it up


----------



## Scout 2

TriggerDiscipline said:


> I'm highly skeptical any changes in behavior this year could be attributed to the baiting ban. All the stores are still selling out of bait around here. I've found a couple piles, but mostly apples. I'm thinking people will get a little more covert about it, maybe switch from bright orage carrots and bright yellow corn to apples and sugar beets. Volume of bait might come down too. But overall, I'm thinking people will continue to bait.


I was on 127 headed north the other day and there a truck in front of me loaded with tree stands and bags of carrots laying on top of the tree stands. Could be they we letting the orange color stain the tree stands so the deer would come to them


----------



## jiggin is livin

stickbow shooter said:


> I haven't found any bait piles yet. I'm guessing more hunters will hitting the woods for gun. They will be doing drives and they can shoot farther then with a bow. Either that or they said to hell with this state. A couple buddy's of mine haven't bought licenses yet and probably won't. They were very bait use dependent when it came to deer hunting.


I was actually surprised to hear a couple buddies say the same thing. Blew my mind that they would too. They are/were big time deer hunting lovers. Breathed it, or so I thought. 

Gonna take a lot more than a bait ban to kick me off the wagon. I've said it plenty of times that I'm against the ban, but I'll adapt. Never really baited much, never had great luck with it or at times it seemed to actually hinder my success. 

Maybe I'll see some positives from it, IDK. Either way I'll be hunting and loving it.

Sent from my E6810 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## poz

2 things that are happening, 

1. is a speculation that people who are putting bait out are seeing more deer, because they have fewer bait piles in the woods.

2nd which is a fact, friday night 3 bars in Baldwin that use to be packed during deer season weekends had 2 or less people in them at 10:00. And no camps observed in their normal spots on state land. So the baiting ban is impacting the local economy


----------



## fishnpbr

TriggerDiscipline said:


> I'm highly skeptical any changes in behavior this year could be attributed to the baiting ban. All the stores are still selling out of bait around here. I've found a couple piles, but mostly apples. I'm thinking people will get a little more covert about it, maybe switch from bright orage carrots and bright yellow corn to apples and sugar beets. Volume of bait might come down too. But overall, I'm thinking people will continue to bait.


I agree. There will be no way of knowing percentages as far as compliance is concerned. Some will abide by the baiting ban, many will not. Baiting has always been rampant in the TB zone since it was banned many years ago. 

In my opinion any changes one sees with deer sightings and movement at this point in the season would have little or nothing to do with the baiting ban.

I'm making my first trip of the deer season up to Oscoda Co this Friday to lay down some boot leather in a chunk of public land I have hunted for the last 30 years. I'll be curious to see if the state wide ban has changed anything in that area. I'm not hopeful.


----------



## Outdoor Bandit

I'd be more concerned in reduced populations regarding wildlife milling around in ever increasing heavily enriched herbcide areas, than anything else.


----------



## Slimits

Outdoor Bandit said:


> I'd be more concerned in reduced populations regarding wildlife milling around in ever increasing heavily enriched herbcide areas, than anything else.


Lol really? Are you from california?


----------



## Jimbos

Impact of the bait ban?

I inadvertently stumbled upon a big pile of tomatoes on my new neighbors 1/2 an acre lot where he's built a home, while driving my ATV up there to request that he keep his German Shorthair off of my property.
If he thinks he's going to arrow a deer on that postage stamp lot and then proceed to track it all over my property he's sorely mistaken.

Anyway.....

My point is, there was a highway of deer tracks around it and it has changed the movement of deer crossing in their normal spot onto my property that they have used for twenty years.

I'm not going to squeal like a little girl to the DNR, but I'll be damned if he's going to track on my property.


----------



## Divers Down

Banning anything only affects the law abiding. Violators don’t give a....bout no law.


----------



## Joe Archer

Baiting has been banned in the NeLP where I hunt for ages now. From experience I can tell you that it is A LOT more difficult to put a deer in the freezer without bait up there, and sightings in the northern part of the state will decrease dramatically on non-agricultural and state land without bait. 
Still, I hunt a low population density area and over the years my success rate doesn't differ much with or without bait. Many years, I just can't be as selective without bait as I would be using bait. 
<----<<<


----------



## BulldogOutlander

The question about this too is how much of the hunter population dropping has anything to do with the current UAW strike? People pinching pennies at the moment and not going out hunting could be part of it as well.

I haven't baited in awhile. Haven't really felt the need to as it really didn't help out on my property. I'm surrounded by farmers. So the deer naturally move around between farms. It's just being in the right place at the right time. We have also started doing a little farming on our land recently as well. Been enough damage to get granted crop damage permits from the DNR, however we haven't used them. 

However my cousin has noticed a drop off in activity on our property recently. Unsure if that is due to the weather or what. It isn't the pressure of hunters because only one person is bow hunting on our land, and the other hunters only firearm hunt.


----------



## Lumberman

poz said:


> 2 things that are happening,
> 
> 1. is a speculation that people who are putting bait out are seeing more deer, because they have fewer bait piles in the woods.
> 
> 2nd which is a fact, friday night 3 bars in Baldwin that use to be packed during deer season weekends had 2 or less people in them at 10:00. And no camps observed in their normal spots on state land. So the baiting ban is impacting the local economy


HUH?? Which Baldwin? I was in Lake county Baldwin for opening weekend. Place was a zoo. There was camps everywhere. Including a couple new ones. We couldn't get breakfast Sunday morning because we didn't have an hour to wait in line. 

That being said it's been a long time since I've been to the bars during the hunting season so maybe they are down.


----------



## Chessieman

stickbow shooter said:


> Our local gas station isn't carrying bait, surprised me. But there are a couple palaces in Cadillac that are carrying beets . No carrots, probably too easy to spot.


Probable using camo Carrots like the Corn.



poz said:


> 2 things that are happening,
> 
> 
> 2nd which is a fact, friday night 3 bars in Baldwin that use to be packed during deer season weekends had 2 or less people in them at 10:00. And no camps observed in their normal spots on state land. So the baiting ban is impacting the local economy


Probable excellent doe hunting though!


----------



## HUBBHUNTER

Banning bait = Less Deer Shot = The Opposite of the DNR's intention = DNR Logic


----------



## TriggerDiscipline

Slimits said:


> Lol really? Are you from california?


I take it he's mad/jealous about food plotters vis a vis baiters.


----------



## Old lund

That’s a pretty hefty fine for baiting but from reading on here of a lot of bait being sold dosnt seem to bother folks . Maybe they just hope not to get caught , sure don’t seem like it’s worth it to me to put it out although I’m sure it’s happening all over . Maybe after a few get busted shooting deer over bait and get made a example of people will think twice


----------



## Hunters Edge

Hunter attrition!

Hunter attrition!

Hunter attrition!

That being said it will equate to loss of license revenue, loss in our economy, a negative impact on harvest quota's. Lastly by limiting harvest quota's it is in effect helping to spread CWD in and outside of designated CWD areas.

Above is a condensed description of the impact of bait ban. I have already witnessed it not only on less hunting days on private property around me but friends who have not even stepped foot on their 80 acres. Just to point out that is at the minimum 3 weekends of gas, grocery, and other stores in the area already taking a hit in there sales/income so far. It also hit state revenue on items lost in sales tax along with many opted for single license tags vs combo tags. Of course this is just from what I have witnessed or know of and may not be a state issue or reality? I doubt it is isolated just around me, but then again one never knows. From other posting on this thread it does not appear my experience or knowledge is isolated.


----------



## 03a3

I live in the Highland Hartland area and their is a lot of privet land and know for a fact that batting is going on.But I am not I put in feed plots I just hope the law barkers get caught when batting was legal I batted also but you have to follow the law.


----------



## jiggin is livin

03a3 said:


> I live in the Highland Hartland area and their is a lot of privet land and know for a fact that batting is going on.But I am not I put in feed plots I just hope the law barkers get caught when batting was legal I batted also but you have to follow the law.


I don't thing batting a deer was ever legal. But what do you do for scent control to get that close!?!?

Sent from my E6810 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Lund Explorer

Anita Dwink said:


> Back on topic - seeing more deer on ag and on public land , on public I'm in the 4pt one side cwd zone and so far I've seen a significant drop in the number of vehicles parked and hunters encountered it's only been 2 weeks. Baiting near where I live has gone down , maybe one recreational feeder where the deer visit the bird feeder. Several deer seen in my yard where I haven't had any in 10+ years. Local businesses selling bait but do not see anywhere near the amount sold in years prior. I expect to see the grid flyover around the beginning of November when the foliage is down where the piles and trails leading to them are visible. Will expect more hunting activity when the chase phase gets going.


Sums up what I've noticed too. I'll be looking to see comparative sales for some of my clients that cater to the hunting fraternity in the next couple of months.


----------



## Divers Down

Hunters Edge said:


> Hunter attrition!
> 
> Hunter attrition!
> 
> Hunter attrition!
> 
> That being said it will equate to loss of license revenue, loss in our economy, a negative impact on harvest quota's. Lastly by limiting harvest quota's it is in effect helping to spread CWD in and outside of designated CWD areas.
> 
> Above is a condensed description of the impact of bait ban. I have already witnessed it not only on less hunting days on private property around me but friends who have not even stepped foot on their 80 acres. Just to point out that is at the minimum 3 weekends of gas, grocery, and other stores in the area already taking a hit in there sales/income so far. It also hit state revenue on items lost in sales tax along with many opted for single license tags vs combo tags. Of course this is just from what I have witnessed or know of and may not be a state issue or reality? I doubt it is isolated just around me, but then again one never knows. From other posting on this thread it does not appear my experience or knowledge is isolated.


Great post
Dnr has also banned deer from eating together under apple trees, sniffing/licking other deer butts, peeing/sniffing scrapes, drinking from same water source and licking on licking branches. Dnr will be out in full force monitoring for illegal sniffing and licking. Lol


----------



## jiggin is livin

Divers Down said:


> Great post
> Dnr has also banned deer from eating together under apple trees, sniffing/licking other deer butts, peeing/sniffing scrapes, drinking from same water source and licking on licking branches. Dnr will be out in full force monitoring for illegal sniffing and licking. Lol


The DNR/NRC are stupid as hell, to say the least. 

Sent from my E6810 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Trophy Specialist

One negative impact I'm seeing is that our only, local baitshop is closing down. He attributed 100% to the baiting ban which is not only impacting his bottom line due to lost bait revenue, but it is also impacting the sales of other hunting related sporting goods too. He's laying off three people too. Deer feed is what got him through the slow fall fishing months, so now I'll have to drive a long ways to buy ice fishing bait and I and others will likely ice fish way less here as a result.


----------



## brookie1

Trophy Specialist said:


> One negative impact I'm seeing is that our only, local baitshop is closing down. He attributed 100% to the baiting ban which is not only impacting his bottom line due to lost bait revenue, but it is also impacting the sales of other hunting related sporting goods too. He's laying off three people too. Deer feed is what got him through the slow fall fishing months, so now I'll have to drive a long ways to buy ice fishing bait and I and others will likely ice fish way less here as a result.


So how did he survive 2008 - 2010?


----------



## Bomba

Wait..... what?? there's a bait ban? why didn't anyone mention it on here...GEEEZE it's gonna take me forever to pickup all that shelled corn.


----------



## Hunters Edge

Trophy Specialist said:


> One negative impact I'm seeing is that our only, local baitshop is closing down. He attributed 100% to the baiting ban which is not only impacting his bottom line due to lost bait revenue, but it is also impacting the sales of other hunting related sporting goods too. He's laying off three people too. Deer feed is what got him through the slow fall fishing months, so now I'll have to drive a long ways to buy ice fishing bait and I and others will likely ice fish way less here as a result.


So sorry to hear. It saddens me that it is affecting lives, family's not only jobs and businesses that have supported the community for years. Unfortunately it does not stop there for it affects so many more.

I noticed a mill/elevator by me does not have mountains of beets to sell. What was alarming several faces or employees are missing, hope they are off from colds, but doubt it.


----------



## brdhntr

ArrowFlinger said:


> I took a ride Sat. night and saw 26 trucks over 4 linear miles of 3 roads. Not sure if that is up or down for the area since I stopped hunting the rec area by my house because 10-15 years ago, because it became too crowded and deer numbers plummeted shortly after the DNR liberalized the doe permits.


I did some bird hunting on a SE Michigan Rec Area last weekend hoping for some early woodcock. This area normally doesn't have a ton of bow pressure on the weekends, this year I had to skip 3 spots simply because it was jammed with bow hunters. Where I eventually ended up, I found a half dozen new stands. One had well trimmed lanes into the thicket it overlooked and a nifty salt lick at the end of it. I think that they are staying closer to home. I did not find a single bait pile, but that isn't out of the ordinary at this spot.


----------



## Hunters Edge

brdhntr said:


> I did some bird hunting on a SE Michigan Rec Area last weekend hoping for some early woodcock. This area normally doesn't have a ton of bow pressure on the weekends, this year I had to skip 3 spots simply because it was jammed with bow hunters. Where I eventually ended up, I found a half dozen new stands. One had well trimmed lanes into the thicket it overlooked and a nifty salt lick at the end of it. I think that they are staying closer to home. I did not find a single bait pile, but that isn't out of the ordinary at this spot.


That salt lick is bait and illegal, in the area you posted (LP) . Also if on state land cutting trees to make shooting lanes are as well.


----------



## brdhntr

Hunters Edge said:


> That salt lick is bait and illegal.


Oh, I'm aware of that. I meant I didn't see any piles, like I'd see in Northern Michigan. May change closer to firearm season.


----------



## ratherboutside

jiggin is livin said:


> I don't thing batting a deer was ever legal. But what do you do for scent control to get that close!?!?
> 
> Sent from my E6810 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BMAB6BAgHEAQ&usg=AOvVaw1SSv7cnpo1Yby4N8yd2WRi

Similar to this with a side of this

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BMAB6BAgAEAI&usg=AOvVaw2JLi2cwYTHAsFVc_Eix4p5

Sent from my SM-G955U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## BulldogOutlander

ratherboutside said:


> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J39HPaLXBJA&ved=2ahUKEwiYrpin3aPlAhVWHTQIHZqNCAMQwqsBMAB6BAgHEAQ&usg=AOvVaw1SSv7cnpo1Yby4N8yd2WRi
> 
> Similar to this with a side of this
> 
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QHH9EYZHoVU&ved=2ahUKEwjz6cPR3aPlAhUMZKwKHQU7B0UQo7QBMAB6BAgAEAI&usg=AOvVaw2JLi2cwYTHAsFVc_Eix4p5
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


I like to use a metal softball bat myself.. Gets a nice "ping" sound whenever I clobber me a monster buck


----------



## cdacker

Trophy Specialist said:


> One negative impact I'm seeing is that our only, local baitshop is closing down. He attributed 100% to the baiting ban which is not only impacting his bottom line due to lost bait revenue, but it is also impacting the sales of other hunting related sporting goods too. He's laying off three people too. Deer feed is what got him through the slow fall fishing months, so now I'll have to drive a long ways to buy ice fishing bait and I and others will likely ice fish way less here as a result.


Sad indeed.
But just think how many deer will be spared of dying a long, slow, painful death from swapping spit off the same sugar beet (insert extreme sarcasm emoji here).
JMO, but the unintended consequences of this senseless ban will far outweigh any possible (more appropriately, theoretical) benefits.


----------



## Biggbear

It's only October 17th, so perhaps it's a bit early to call observations a pattern. Until a pattern can be established observations can be attributed to about anything. Maybe the lack of people up north has been due to the weather, or the economy, or maybe it really is the baiting issue. I think it's still early to tell.

As for how the deer are going to react to this new reality, that is even more difficult to pinpoint, especially so early in the game.

Last weekend, my first sit of the year I saw 2 bucks in less than an hour, well before dark. Was that because of the supposed lack of bait in my area making my small food plots more desireable than ever? Geez, I sure hope so that would be sweet! But it's just as likely it was blind unadulterated luck.


----------



## sureshot006

We need several YEARS of data to draw conclusions, with exception to the direct consequence of shops shutting down or lost sales.


----------



## motdean

Trophy Specialist said:


> One negative impact I'm seeing is that our only, local baitshop is closing down. He attributed 100% to the baiting ban which is not only impacting his bottom line due to lost bait revenue, but it is also impacting the sales of other hunting related sporting goods too. He's laying off three people too. Deer feed is what got him through the slow fall fishing months, so now I'll have to drive a long ways to buy ice fishing bait and I and others will likely ice fish way less here as a result.


Ouch!

Sorry to hear that.


----------



## miruss

But the DNR is going to come up with some off the wall reason on why the numbers are low this year! Lets see what they will come up with , G.M. strike, to wet of spring no crops planted, to many crops in field not picked , to wet,cold, snowy,windy ,opening day during week , people couldn't get time off work.! Did i miss any? You know damm well they are not going to say we screwed up with this ban and it cost us a ton of hunters staying out of the field .


----------



## Slimits

Wild Thing said:


> Yep - And if you kill a deer over an illegal bait pile you are looking at mandatory jail time, hunting license revocation for 3-7 years and some pretty hefty fines and restitution - particularly if it is an antlered buck:
> 
> 
> Take Deer Over Unlawful Bait [ C3.100(7) and MCL 324.40118(3) ] – misdemeanor offense with mandatory minimum of at least 5 days in jail to a maximum of 90 days in jail, a minimum fine of at least $200 to a maximum fine of $500, Court costs and State fees, restitution for the deer, and the loss of hunting privileges for to remainder of the year of conviction plus 3 additional calendar years pursuant to MCL 324.40118(7).
> 
> Unlawful Baiting Deer [ C3.100(7) ] – misdemeanor offense with a maximum of 90 days in jail, a minimum fine of at least $50 to a maximum fine of $500, Court costs and State fees, and the loss of hunting privileges at the discretion of the Court pursuant to MCL 324.43559.
> 
> Additional License Revocation – Antlered Deer [ MCL 324.40118(8) ] – in addition to the above listed penalties related to hunting privileges, an individual who is convicted of the illegal killing, possessing, purchasing, or selling of an antlered white-tailed deer is subject to the following penalties: (a) for a first offense, the individual shall not secure or posses a license of any kind to hunt for an additional 2 calendar years; (b) for a second or subsequent offense, the individual shall not secure or possess a license of any kind to hunt for an additional 7 calendar years.
> 
> Restitution – Deer [ MCL 324.40119(2) ] – restitution for a deer is $1000. However, if the individual is convicted of the illegal killing, possessing, purchasing, or selling of an antlered white-tailed deer, there is an additional penalty of $1000 added to the restitution. On top of the aforementioned restitution, there are more financial penalties depending upon the number of points for the antlered white-tailed deer in question. If the buck has at least 8 points but not more than 10 points, there is an additional restitution charge of $500 for each point. If the buck has 11 or more points, the additional restitution charge becomes $750 for each point. Hence, if a person is convicted as charged of unlawfully taking a doe, the restitution is $1000. If the person is convicted as charged of unlawfully taking a buck that has less than 8 points the total amount of restitution will be $2000. If the person is convicted as charged of unlawfully taking a deer that has 10 points the total amount of restitution will be $7000. If a person is convicted as charged of unlawfully taking a deer with 11 points the total amount of restitution will be $10,250.


Wow! Thats crazy! You'd think baiting was being considered as poaching or something! A misdeamer is no joke it seems considering manditory jail time. I wonder if all the folks know this that are currently baiting? The new rules prolly made michigan the biggest violator state in the country.


----------



## Hunters Edge

brdhntr said:


> Oh, I'm aware of that. I meant I didn't see any piles, like I'd see in Northern Michigan. May change closer to firearm season.


My point was countless miles and days afield and only finding one. And that one shows a disregard to several laws, not just bait regulations. I wonder if his stand has his identification or someone else's to deny himself of cutting trees or knowing of bait existing?


----------



## brookie1

Slimits said:


> Wow! Thats crazy! You'd think baiting was being considered as poaching or something! A misdeamer is no joke it seems considering manditory jail time. I wonder if all the folks know this that are currently baiting? The new rules prolly made michigan the biggest violator state in the country.


Illegal baiting is poaching and always has been. The only changes are the restitution costs, and those have been in place for a number of years to mirror other states that have high restitution for what are considered trophy bucks.


----------



## Justin

miruss said:


> But the DNR is going to come up with some off the wall reason on why the numbers are low this year! Lets see what they will come up with , G.M. strike, to wet of spring no crops planted, to many crops in field not picked , to wet,cold, snowy,windy ,opening day during week , people couldn't get time off work.! Did i miss any? You know damm well they are not going to say we screwed up with this ban and it cost us a ton of hunters staying out of the field .


No doubt about it! They will find a way to cover it up. During the last ban they just issued more antlerless tags to cover the drop in successful hunters. Then told us that baiting made no difference in hunter success.


----------



## Gsphunteronpoint1

We are allowing the MAN to become to controlling and over regulate our beloved sport. I know a lot of people who have quit hunting because of the regulations in this state. Now they hunt out of state.


----------



## fishx65

I don't get it, I'm up in the Irons/Luther area and I still see a few businesses selling sugar beets. Besides baiting/feeding deer, are there any other uses for sugar beets?


----------



## Sasquatch Lives

brookie1 said:


> So how did he survive 2008 - 2010?


From what I saw in the woods nobody actually quit baiting during that time.


----------



## Justin

Y


fishx65 said:


> I don't get it, I'm up in the Irons/Luther area and I still see a few businesses selling sugar beets. Besides baiting/feeding deer, are there any other uses for sugar beets?


Yup.


----------



## beer and nuts

You can still bait in the UP!! Livestock/horses will eat sugarbeats. Kinda like downstate outdoor businesses selling rifles when you can't use rifles in the SLP! The bait police are in full force on MS...Lol


----------



## Divers Down

We’ve hunted the same 80 acres for 30+ years. Not much more “scouting” I can do, we know every runway out there. I’ll give this year the college try without bait but if it’s crap, I’ll scrap bow season and rely on gun to push deer around. Will actually give me more duck hunting until the Dnr screws that up more.


----------



## kingfisher 11

I think you will see a increase in deer drives during gun season and also more trespassing.


----------



## Divers Down

kingfisher 11 said:


> I think you will see a increase in deer drives during gun season and also more trespassing.


And who’s gunna wing out those 60yd Xbow gut shots.


----------



## PalookaJim

Ummmm.... there is a ban on baiting? oops.


----------



## Old lund

Oh it must be fall palooka Jim is back lol


----------



## swampbuck

Gsphunteronpoint1 said:


> We are allowing the MAN to become to controlling and over regulate our beloved sport. I know a lot of people who have quit hunting because of the regulations in this state. Now they hunt out of state.


Then quit being a We, and take a stand. Become one of the Us, who are fighting for common sense regulations

Call you Senator and demand they support Curt Vanderwall's S.B. 37

And while your on the phone call your representative and demand support for H.B.4687.

The baiting laws should have been applied equally to the penninsula's.

And while your at it, ask them to look at the SHAM special interest, MAPR in the CWD core area, despite the CWD response plan calling for targeting young bucks. 

Get involved, stand up and make a difference. Your hunting is under attack.

This isnt directed at the O.P., It is directed at the silent majority. 10 or 15 minutes of your time can make a difference.

Sent from my SM-S367VL using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Gsphunteronpoint1

My neighbor is good friends with our representative in our area. So I actually had a nice face to face meeting with him and expressed my feelings. He is a fellow hunter and said he fully supports reversing the baiting ban.


----------



## Dish7

Trophy Specialist said:


> He attributed 100% to the baiting ban which is not only impacting his bottom line due to lost bait revenue,


Seasons not even three weeks old and it's 100% on the ban?


----------



## Wild Thing

Well...I went to get propane tanks filled today and found that the propane dealer is also selling deer bait up here in our CWD Core Zone. Trucks and trailers were standing in line waiting to get a front end loader scoop of sugar beets loaded into their trailers. When I passed Pellegiini's farm on the way home trucks were pulling out with full loads of cabbage.

I have a feeling I may be in the silent minority of those who comply with the law...

Want to see the surprised look on my face??


----------



## Dish7

beer and nuts said:


> The bait police are in full force on MS...Lol


Only to be outdone by the violators.


----------



## MossyHorns

swampbuck said:


> Then quit being a We, and take a stand. Become one of the Us, who are fighting for common sense regulations
> 
> Call you Senator and demand they support Curt Vanderwall's S.B. 37
> 
> And while your on the phone call your representative and demand support for H.B.4687.
> 
> The baiting laws should have been applied equally to the penninsula's.
> 
> And while your at it, ask them to look at the SHAM special interest, MAPR in the CWD core area, despite the CWD response plan calling for targeting young bucks.
> 
> Get involved, stand up and make a difference. Your hunting is under attack.
> 
> This isnt directed at the O.P., It is directed at the silent majority. 10 or 15 minutes of your time can make a difference.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S367VL using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Having politicians determine game laws is a bad idea! Should be left to science. You baiters are crying for this, but what happens when an anti hunter pushes a bill through? Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought we voted years ago to keep politicians from meddling with our natural resources.


----------



## Divers Down

Our biggest bait advocate could turn out to be the insurance companies once they start forking out more checks.
“Dnr!!! What the blank is going on with all these deer everywhere now?”


----------



## TheLionsFan

Here is the biggest impact I am seeing and the biggest problem I have with the ban.

My dad has been hunting for a LONG time. Always had his blind and his bait pile. That's how he likes to hunt. We don't have acres upon acres to have 15 different stands, bedding areas in this part, food source on that part, swamp over here, hills over there....no, we dont have that. We have "the woods". We have a few stands up, but he has hunted in his one blind since I can remember. And hes always had the itch to get out hunting. He isn't big on scent control. Or hunting the wind. Or the rut. Moon phases. Scoring deer. Etc. This is his preferred method of hunting and its what makes him happy to get out to the woods and what hes done for years. Which should be 100% cool with anyone. 

Now baiting gets banned. I get it, I understand why. But I know many hunters who are just like my dad, and this being taken away takes away more than just a bait pile, IMO. Just the other day I bring up deer season to him, and he in so many words said he just isnt in to it this year. That really kills me hearing that coming from the guy who is the first person I go to when it comes to the big buck I got on camera. Or the rub I found. Or scrape. Or cold front coming..etc It always got his blood pumping.

Now I know many are thinking, "Why doesn't he just adapt and move on". Sometimes it aint that easy. And those that say that clearly just dont understand.

Again, I understand the reason for the ban. I get it. But the biggest impact I am seeing is what I am seeing with my dad. The baiting ban doesn't affect me one bit. But the thought that he's gonna sit the year out (possible more) really kills me. Not seeing his truck parked there on opening day. Not meeting him at the end of the hunt to talk about what we saw. The baiting ban is going to do that.

All I know is I hope the DNR knows what they're doing.


----------



## swampbuck

MossyHorns said:


> Having politicians determine game laws is a bad idea! Should be left to science. You baiters are crying for this, but what happens when an anti hunter pushes a bill through? Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought we voted years ago to keep politicians from meddling with our natural resources.


I dont disagree with you, it should be left up to science......

What science indicates leaving it open outside the disease zone in the UP. But banning it penninsula wide in the lower ?

What science supports implementing APR's in the CORE CWD area, a so called test. With no baseline, no parameters, And really no idea what they are even studying....while their own CWD plan opposes protecting young bucks ?

What science supports liberalising buck harvest outside the zone but restricting it in the zone ?

What about the science of the ATA certified urine from deer farmers, when we know there is no live test for CWD....and their not killing their deer, and deer can be exposed to that, but cant be exposed to to an artificial scent that has never been close to a deer ?

How do apples become infected being moved from under an apple tree to under a stand.....is a plastic bag or bucket the source of CWD.

And we could go on and on..

Science is a good thing....absolutely. It's unfortunate that the NRC/DNR/MUCC/QDMA have foresaken science for their own self interest. The only legal recourse is our Legislature. That is the law as laid out in the MNREPA. 

Personally, I think we should get the recreational viewers on board......



Sent from my SM-S367VL using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## bucko12pt

swampbuck said:


> Then quit being a We, and take a stand. Become one of the Us, who are fighting for common sense regulations
> 
> Call you Senator and demand they support Curt Vanderwall's S.B. 37
> 
> And while your on the phone call your representative and demand support for H.B.4687.
> 
> The baiting laws should have been applied equally to the penninsula's.
> 
> And while your at it, ask them to look at the SHAM special interest, MAPR in the CWD core area, despite the CWD response plan calling for targeting young bucks.
> 
> Get involved, stand up and make a difference. Your hunting is under attack.
> 
> This isnt directed at the O.P., It is directed at the silent majority. 10 or 15 minutes of your time can make a difference.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S367VL using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


You’re in the camp that despises APR’s and claim they do nothing. You should be happy they have instituted them in the core area, so when you’re proven to be right you can post on here and gloat.


----------



## GVDocHoliday

I'm seeing fewer hunters and haven't found a single bait pile...yet. 

All are positive benefits of the bait ban. 

Been seeing good daytime deer numbers.


----------



## DEDGOOSE

TheLionsFan said:


> Here is the biggest impact I am seeing and the biggest problem I have with the ban.
> 
> My dad has been hunting for a LONG time. Always had his blind and his bait pile. That's how he likes to hunt. We don't have acres upon acres to have 15 different stands, bedding areas in this part, food source on that part, swamp over here, hills over there....no, we dont have that. We have "the woods". We have a few stands up, but he has hunted in his one blind since I can remember. And hes always had the itch to get out hunting. He isn't big on scent control. Or hunting the wind. Or the rut. Moon phases. Scoring deer. Etc. This is his preferred method of hunting and its what makes him happy to get out to the woods and what hes done for years. Which should be 100% cool with anyone.
> 
> Now baiting gets banned. I get it, I understand why. But I know many hunters who are just like my dad, and this being taken away takes away more than just a bait pile, IMO. Just the other day I bring up deer season to him, and he in so many words said he just isnt in to it this year. That really kills me hearing that coming from the guy who is the first person I go to when it comes to the big buck I got on camera. Or the rub I found. Or scrape. Or cold front coming..etc It always got his blood pumping.
> 
> Now I know many are thinking, "Why doesn't he just adapt and move on". Sometimes it aint that easy. And those that say that clearly just dont understand.
> 
> Again, I understand the reason for the ban. I get it. But the biggest impact I am seeing is what I am seeing with my dad. The baiting ban doesn't affect me one bit. But the thought that he's gonna sit the year out (possible more) really kills me. Not seeing his truck parked there on opening day. Not meeting him at the end of the hunt to talk about what we saw. The baiting ban is going to do that.
> 
> All I know is I hope the DNR knows what they're doing.


OMG our dads should hunt together. Lol May dad owns thirteen acres of river bottom tag alders it's good dang good he's shot some nice one not 140 but 120 stuff it was his relief. Having stints in both legs can't barely walk parks 50 yards from blind. And he's having a very good invasive surgery in his neck for a huge blockage. That was his release from ma (now deceased) getaway he battles depression be a great release again. He'd go sit there every night I realized it was more than shooting a giant.
He sat a box blind over bait smoking jamming oldies and still whipped my butt on deer killed alot of my target deer. It's an awesome rifle blind as there's 4 100 yard shooting lanes through the nasty swamp
Like you asked him he was gonna hunt, no!!! Now asked if bl wanted his blind. Dad and I don't get along but breaks my heart. I know spots back there he could kill good deer, Adapt an move on. "yeah dad trudge through 80yards of Muck" he'd die"

Another thing bugs me we cook alot, we shop local. Went to one of our favorite fruit markets, being nosey, "how are bait sales?"
Told our first batch of carrots rotted but we will keep selling.

Just dad they lost his combo, base and doe tags, archery shop lost broadhead sale, fruit market lost bait sale.


----------



## jiggin is livin

Slimits said:


> Wow! Thats crazy! You'd think baiting was being considered as poaching or something! A misdeamer is no joke it seems considering manditory jail time. I wonder if all the folks know this that are currently baiting? The new rules prolly made michigan the biggest violator state in the country.


I don't get why someone would risk their hunting privileges just to have some bait out. 

I understand some hunt that way and the confidence just isn't there without it, but I'd like to see them all try and find out they can still do it without it. It's really not that big of a benefit on MOST areas. 

It might be as simple as a 40yd move to get on where the deer are naturally traveling vs pulling them over where you want them to be via bait. I get it, but I wish everyone else did too. 
.I still hope the ban gets reversed, but it sure isn't a reason to kill all that tradition. IMO. 

Sent from my E6810 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## wenz34

We´ve been hunting the same mid-Michigan SGA since 2004. From 04-07 area was always congested, a few vehicles on weekdays then real busy on weekends. 

The hunter numbers from 2012-2018 didn´t ever recover from the first ban, 2012 guys could bait but deer were hard to come by with a large EHD die off, so again, lower hunter numbers the last 5 years but not highly pressured.

Our first sits of this year, pressure is nonexistent. One other hunter vehicle in about 5 weekday sits at our specific spot. 2 Sunday hunts, 1 other truck total. It takes about 8 miles of driving through the SGA to get to our spot, maybe a random truck here and there, both weekday and weekends. My dad and Uncle are heading out tomorrow morning, I am very curious to how many guys are there. Bottom line, very accessible SGA in mid Michigan, very very few archery hunters.


----------



## mbrewer

MossyHorns said:


> Having politicians determine game laws is a bad idea! Should be left to science. You baiters are crying for this, but what happens when an anti hunter pushes a bill through? Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought we voted years ago to keep politicians from meddling with our natural resources.


We already have politicians deciding. Pulling science down like a shade instead of a foundation block.


----------



## PicaTommy

I notice fewer perennial ladder stands in the high pressured SELP rec areas. Most of those spots had an accompanying bait pile in years past.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## fishx65

Every time changes are made like crossbows, APRs and baiting there are always some that say they're gonna quit hunting or start hunting and I'm sure some actually do. If I'm not mistaking, there are quite a few states that don't allow baiting and hunters of all ages still enjoy our great sport.


----------



## Hillsdales Most Wanted

bucko12pt said:


> You’re in the camp that despises APR’s and claim they do nothing. You should be happy they have instituted them in the core area, so when you’re proven to be right you can post on here and gloat.


Pennsylvania has already proven Swampy right.


----------



## jr28schalm

Hillsdales Most Wanted said:


> Pennsylvania has already proven Swampy right.


Man Hmw I hope this is finally your year to bag a 3.5. Maybe the ladies get the flu for a week and they let you hunt the rutt this year


----------



## swampbuck

Gsphunteronpoint1 said:


> My neighbor is good friends with our representative in our area. So I actually had a nice face to face meeting with him and expressed my feelings. He is a fellow hunter and said he fully supports reversing the baiting ban.


Awesome, A few more legislators joined this week. Keep em coming.

Sent from my SM-S367VL using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Joe Archer

jiggin is livin said:


> *I don't get why someone would risk their hunting privileges just to have some bait out. *
> 
> I understand some hunt that way and the confidence just isn't there without it, but I'd like to see them all try and find out they can still do it without it. It's really not that big of a benefit on MOST areas.
> 
> It might be as simple as a 40yd move to get on where the deer are naturally traveling vs pulling them over where you want them to be via bait. I get it, but I wish everyone else did too.
> .I still hope the ban gets reversed, but it sure isn't a reason to kill all that tradition. IMO.
> 
> Sent from my E6810 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


From the responses here; some just do not have access to property that deer travel without bait, or the time and ability to get out and do the leg work required. 
If their choices are bait or quit hunting, they might choose bait and quit if they get caught anyway. 
<----<<<


----------



## Wild Thing

Gsphunteronpoint1 said:


> *My neighbor is good friends with our representative in our area. So I actually had a nice face to face meeting with him and expressed my feelings. He is a fellow hunter and said he fully supports reversing the baiting ban*.





swampbuck said:


> *Awesome, A few more legislators joined this week. Keep em coming.*
> 
> Sent from my SM-S367VL using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Here is the hypocrisy ... my state senator has also introduced an amendment to SB-37 in support of eliminating the baiting ban. But get this, he is my neighbor and his family owns a dairy farm right next to me. They are well known to be the biggest violators in the U.P. and maybe even in the state of Michigan - they just hate deer. They bait deer in to kill them during the summer on crop damage permits. They kill every buck they can during summer crop damage season as well as 50-100 does and fawns every year. His dad complained to me about my shooting of coyotes because they want the coyotes around to kill deer. Miraculously, the one and only CWD positive deer in the U.P. was found from among one of their crop damage kills. 

Is he supporting this legislation because of the possible detriment that CWD may cause to our deer herd? Does he even give a rip about the deer or CWD....or the science? Hell no - all he cares about are the _*VOTES....*_because surveys have shown that a large majority of Yoopers hunt over bait.

How many other state legislators are in the same boat? That, my friends, is exactly why we need an NRC...or some other apolitical body who can make honest decisions based upon science and not votes.


----------



## Hillsdales Most Wanted

jr28schalm said:


> Man Hmw I hope this is finally your year to bag a 3.5. Maybe the ladies get the flu for a week and they let you hunt the rutt this year


Heck yeah!!! Already told those greedy girls they aint hunting this year. Butt why lower my standards?? 4.5 or older


----------



## wildcoy73

Personally the rain we have had has kept many out of the woods.
You can't blame that on the baiting law. 
This is the wettest october I can recall in a long time.


miruss said:


> But the DNR is going to come up with some off the wall reason on why the numbers are low this year! Lets see what they will come up with , G.M. strike, to wet of spring no crops planted, to many crops in field not picked , to wet,cold, snowy,windy ,opening day during week , people couldn't get time off work.! Did i miss any? You know damm well they are not going to say we screwed up with this ban and it cost us a ton of hunters staying out of the field .


Sent from my SM-N960U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Chessieman

My brother is handicapped so his hunting is limited to a gun blind or a pop up blind that are wheel chair compatible. He is in PI county and hunts a few miles off Lake Huron. There is no AG land within 10 miles, probable Posen being 20 miles away. All deer must feed on what nature gives which is not to much. He is a dedicated Xbow hunter and needs 2 deer a year, beef is a no no for medical reasons. He baited when baiting was legal within the legal definition. He now has some clear areas that have food plots in. I would not call them plots just scattering of plants were there is not Limestone. He is seeing deer, less then he baited. He has taken out a small buck already and dedicated at 12 sittings per week. People complain about postage stamp property that requires bait to hunt. I did not know all property was compatible with deer hunting. If you want it compatible then get your lazy ass off the couch and make it compatible. Plant trees and food plots. If baiting becomes legal again, you can always revert back to dumping illegal amounts of bait so you can walk out after the game!


----------



## Divers Down

Chessieman said:


> My brother is handicapped so his hunting is limited to a gun blind or a pop up blind that are wheel chair compatible. He is in PI county and hunts a few miles off Lake Huron. There is no AG land within 10 miles, probable Posen being 20 miles away. All deer must feed on what nature gives which is not to much. He is a dedicated Xbow hunter and needs 2 deer a year, beef is a no no for medical reasons. He baited when baiting was legal within the legal definition. He now has some clear areas that have food plots in. I would not call them plots just scattering of plants were there is not Limestone. He is seeing deer, less then he baited. He has taken out a small buck already and dedicated at 12 sittings per week. People complain about postage stamp property that requires bait to hunt. I did not know all property was compatible with deer hunting. If you want it compatible then get your lazy ass off the couch and make it compatible. Plant trees and food plots. If baiting becomes legal again, you can always revert back to dumping illegal amounts of bait so you can walk out after the game!


The argument is “is banning bait going to stop cwd” Apple trees or food plot will draw deer to congregate and spread “disease” just as much scattering a bag of shelled corn. In my opinion the corn is better because once it’s consumed, the deer move on. The plot and trees will draw deer year round. How many cwd Prions are dispersed in a tiny food plot? Or should call it “baiting under ground” It’s just dumb science imo, there’s gotta be other motives to do this.


----------



## skipper34

It still baffles me as to why anyone would quit deer hunting over a baiting ban. But at the same time it pleases me.


----------



## ScipioCreekAssasin

beer and nuts said:


> You can still bait in the UP!! Livestock/horses will eat sugarbeats. Kinda like downstate outdoor businesses selling rifles when you can't use rifles in the SLP! The bait police are in full force on MS...Lol


Not entirely true about the SLP rifles. We can still shoot rifles in the SLP. We just cannot hunt deer with them. I do miss sitting with my rifle since moving below the line. I agree about livestock eating the bait. I have never been much into baiting like my Grandfather was. So the only impact I have noticed is the nasty looks when buying a bag of cracked corn now from TSC for my chickens. Good thing the bag lasts them months. Wouldnt be surprised if I get a follow up from DNR after my purchase later in the season . He will leave with a dozen eggs...


----------



## jstec

I feel that hunting isn't all about the killing it's about being in the woods and enjoying what mother nature has created . The harvest is the added bonus . I have not baited in 13 years and still get my deer every year . The rewards of not baiting was bigger deer. In 2015 I shot the largest buck of my hunting career a 158" typical 12 point. It took me 41 years of hunting to achieve , but the wait was worth it.


----------



## Bucman

Gsphunteronpoint1 said:


> We are allowing the MAN to become to controlling and over regulate our beloved sport. I know a lot of people who have quit hunting because of the regulations in this state. Now they hunt out of state.


Real hunters never quit!


----------



## Divers Down

Wait till they ban food plots...


----------



## Gsphunteronpoint1

Bucman said:


> Real hunters never quit!


I meant to say they have quit hunting in this state. They now lease properties in other states to hunt.


----------



## Dish7

Divers Down said:


> Wait till they ban food plots...


Who cares...let them. I'll keep right on hunting and so will any other habitat guy that I know.


----------



## cdacker

I put lots of miles of boots on the ground this time of year following my bird dog around through public land in Ogemaw County. Normally I run across the same tree stands year after year (baited). Only one of three remains this year. The one that remains has replaced his scattered pile of apples, beets, or carrots with what look like several tampons (with scent I assume) surrounding an area of white powder on the ground. Still illegal, but he's not baiting.
I drive by where he parks two times a day on the way to and from work. I've only seen his truck parked twice ... last year he hunted almost every day. He's been successful in the past as evidenced by gut piles found by my dog. I'm guessing he won't be successful this year ... the location of his stand won't put many deer by him within bow range, and he is hunting much less.
I'm guessing he's not alone ... there will be many like him who will hunt less (or quit) and be less successful. That's probably music to the ears for many who are thrilled about the baiting ban, but it sure doesn't make much sense in the combat against disease.


----------



## cdacker

skipper34 said:


> It still baffles me as to why anyone would quit deer hunting over a baiting ban. But at the same time* it pleases me*.


I used to wish hunting with rifles would be banned for my own selfish reasons ... then I grew up.


----------



## Woodsman Traveler

fishx65 said:


> I don't get it, I'm up in the Irons/Luther area and I still see a few businesses selling sugar beets. Besides baiting/feeding deer, are there any other uses for sugar beets?


Buy them there on your way to the U.P. ?


----------



## Waif

Through the 20th baiting is legal for the Independence hunt.


----------



## BulldogOutlander

Waif said:


> Through the 20th baiting is legal for the Independence hunt.


no one within a mile radius of us (if not farther) does this or the youth hunt in the area i hunt. BUT good information


----------



## skipper34

cdacker said:


> I used to wish hunting with rifles would be banned for my own selfish reasons ... then I grew up.


Selfish? My ass!!!! What would you rather have, a bunch of violators in the woods with you? I am saying that I would rather see them quit hunting over a bait ban than have them out there baiting anyway. I hunt on public land up north. I would not like it if I set my stand up only to find out from a CO that there is an illegal pile not far from my stand. Then everyone loses. Can't fathom why bait is the deciding factor in a person's deer hunting.


----------



## Rainman68

Why would everyone lose if a bait pile is found near your stand? I would think you and the baiter would be the only losers in that scenario.


----------



## Chessieman

Divers Down said:


> The argument is “is banning bait going to stop cwd” Apple trees or food plot will draw deer to congregate and spread “disease” just as much scattering a bag of shelled corn. In my opinion the corn is better because once it’s consumed, the deer move on. The plot and trees will draw deer year round. How many cwd Prions are dispersed in a tiny food plot? Or should call it “baiting under ground” It’s just dumb science imo, there’s gotta be other motives to do this.


Sorry I thought this thread was about the impacts of baiting. So you think that all the manure in food plots are going to spread CWD. Not even considering that normally the ground is worked at least every other year. It sure seems to me that the private land owner that only uses bait DUMPS IN THE SAME PILE year after year. I guess by your reasoning that his property would be contaminated forever with a hot area of 10 square feet IF he does it legal. Of course if you have trained deer they can always use Styrofoam containers!


----------



## sureshot006

skipper34 said:


> Selfish? My ass!!!! What would you rather have, a bunch of violators in the woods with you? I am saying that I would rather see them quit hunting over a bait ban than have them out there baiting anyway. I hunt on public land up north. I would not like it if I set my stand up only to find out from a CO that there is an illegal pile not far from my stand. Then everyone loses. Can't fathom why bait is the deciding factor in a person's deer hunting.


I think he was referring to your hatred of bait before it was banned, and drawing similarities to his own selfish desire.


----------



## sureshot006

Chessieman said:


> Sorry I thought this thread was about the impacts of baiting. So you think that all the manure in food plots are going to spread CWD. Not even considering that normally the ground is worked at least every other year. It sure seems to me that the private land owner that only uses bait DUMPS IN THE SAME PILE year after year. I guess by your reasoning that his property would be contaminated forever with a hot area of 10 square feet IF he does it legal. Of course if you have trained deer they can always use Styrofoam containers!


How many food plots are moved? And does working the ground even matter? 

"Seems to me" is not scientific.

I guess I would like to know what's really worse... 100 food sources spread out on the landscape for 2-3 months or 20 food sources for 6 months.

The impact of baiting wont be known for at LEAST until the DNR publishes the 2019 data. Before then we are just reporting opinions. And it'll take a few years to draw any real conclusions.


----------



## Slimits

cdacker said:


> I put lots of miles of boots on the ground this time of year following my bird dog around through public land in Ogemaw County. Normally I run across the same tree stands year after year (baited). Only one of three remains this year. The one that remains has replaced his scattered pile of apples, beets, or carrots with what look like several tampons (with scent I assume) surrounding an area of white powder on the ground. Still illegal, but he's not baiting.
> I drive by where he parks two times a day on the way to and from work. I've only seen his truck parked twice ... last year he hunted almost every day. He's been successful in the past as evidenced by gut piles found by my dog. I'm guessing he won't be successful this year ... the location of his stand won't put many deer by him within bow range, and he is hunting much less.
> I'm guessing he's not alone ... there will be many like him who will hunt less (or quit) and be less successful. That's probably music to the ears for many who are thrilled about the baiting ban, but it sure doesn't make much sense in the combat against disease.


Nothing the dnr can do will combat the cwd. They are stupid for thinking they can help or hurt its spread. Other states with a heck of alot better hunting than michigan already proved that. Killing all the deer is not the answer. You know i watched about 12 deer eating in a beet feild the other night. Bucks sparing and does constantly touching noses with their fawns and other does. **** if one of them actually had cwd and it could be transfered every deer would have it. The dnr are clueless .


----------



## DecoySlayer

Slimits said:


> Wow! Thats crazy! You'd think baiting was being considered as poaching or something! A misdeamer is no joke it seems considering manditory jail time. I wonder if all the folks know this that are currently baiting? The new rules prolly made michigan the biggest violator state in the country.



Baiting, if it is illegal is no different than jack lighting or any other kind of poaching.


----------



## DecoySlayer

sniper said:


> Here’s where I’m different. I could not intervene with anyone from Oct 1 through Jan 1 and those 3 months would be my favorite 3 months of the year. I love hunting with family and friends but I love hunting more.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman



Too bad.


----------



## brookie1

sureshot006 said:


> You mean with xbows?


oh geez, here we go.


----------



## ArrowFlinger

RedM2 said:


> One is much more efficient than the other: hunting over bait. It also comes down to time and land access,* which are related to money *and/or the right networks.
> 
> It seems like many on here voice their support of the bait ban in the name of science, yet they're happy at the idea the ban will likely result in fewer hunters. In the end, less deer will be harvested and the population will increase along with the spread of disease, which runs counter to your reason in support of the ban.


Not baiting is a lot cheaper and more affordable than baiting.
Public land is free.
You can camp on public land for free.
So, if money is your concern, I can spend less on gas and food for a 2 week trip than you probably spend on bait in a year.

Bait is a crutch, not a requirement to be successful.
Where baiting is legal, go for it.
Where it is not, follow the rules.


----------



## Hunters Edge

DecoySlayer said:


> Yes, but not the same goal. Sharpshooters are there strictly to reduce the size of the herd. We are there to have some fun. Different goals totally.
> 
> Baiting can make it easier to take a deer. It can also make it harder. Just like hunting them with dogs.


Hogwash! We are their to manage wildlife populations, game management is the number one goal for hunters and conservationist. It is also note it is the reason for the DNR to establish harvest goals.


----------



## DecoySlayer

Hunters Edge said:


> Hogwash! We are their to manage wildlife populations, game management is the number one goal for hunters and conservationist. It is also note it is the reason for the DNR to establish harvest goals.



Whatever. I know people who kill deer like that. It's part of their job. They shoot over bait, at night, in areas that are not open to hunting. 

It is in no way the same as sport hunting, but, you can believe what ever you want. You are even allowed to believe that bait is a needed tool for taking deer, it hogwash, but, you can believe it if you like.


----------



## Hunters Edge

mbrewer said:


> We're all chasing success. How far, how hard is governed by our desire.


Or choice?


----------



## Hunters Edge

DecoySlayer said:


> Whatever. I know people who kill deer like that. It's part of their job. They shoot over bait, at night, in areas that are not open to hunting.
> 
> It is in no way the same as sport hunting, but, you can believe what ever you want. You are even allowed to believe that bait is a needed tool for taking deer, it hogwash, but, you can believe it if you like.


It is an effective tool used by sharpshooters. It is also an effective tool used by hunters. No difference in the use of bait or it's effectiveness in either scenario.

Need is not correct it's want. It's also a choice.


----------



## RedM2

ArrowFlinger said:


> Not baiting is a lot cheaper and more affordable than baiting.
> Public land is free.
> You can camp on public land for free.
> So, if money is your concern, I can spend less on gas and food for a 2 week trip than you probably spend on bait in a year.
> 
> Bait is a crutch, not a requirement to be successful.
> Where baiting is legal, go for it.
> Where it is not, follow the rules.


There are indirect costs to hunting public land that I want no part of. I respect guys who get it done public land. Personally, I don't like the frustrations and indirect costs that come with public land. People walking by while you are hunting is one thing, but stolen tree stands, stolen trail cameras, people hunting in your stand, and people knowingly setting up next to you... I'd rather sit at home. I know it's not illegal, but hunting in someone else's stand on public land should be. 

If your view is that bait is crutch, so too are most of the other tools hunters use to get the job done.


----------



## brookie1

Hunters Edge said:


> It is an effective tool used by sharpshooters. It is also an effective tool used by hunters. No difference in the use of bait or it's effectiveness in either scenario.
> 
> Need is not correct it's want. It's also a choice.


There is a big difference. Hunters put out bait and replenish it through the season, selectively killing a deer or two. Meanwhile deer continue to visit the same bait sites over a course of weeks or months. When baiting is legal statewide there are literally hundreds of thousands of bait sites across the state, not including mineral sites and recreational feeding. A cull is a one time event where a bait pile is put out and as many deer as possible are killed over a day or two. Then the baiting ends.


----------



## skipper34

RedM2 said:


> There are indirect costs to hunting public land that I want no part of. I respect guys who get it done public land. Personally, I don't like the frustrations and indirect costs that come with public land. People walking by while you are hunting is one thing, but stolen tree stands, stolen trail cameras, people hunting in your stand, and people knowingly setting up next to you... I'd rather sit at home. I know it's not illegal, but hunting in someone else's stand on public land should be.
> 
> If your view is that bait is crutch, so too are most of the other tools hunters use to get the job done.


This is why I am glad that Arrowflinger and I hunt public land in the NELP. TB zone. We have the entire area that we hunt to ourselves in archery season. Maybe 3 or 4 camps in a 6 mile square area during firearms season. Never have had the public land problems that you describe. We have 90% success.


----------



## Captain of the 4-C's

I hunt on state land in Kalkaska county. One neighbor owns a little less than 40 acres right next to the state land and used to feed the deer year round. He has stopped doing that and if I compare the number of night time photos to those taken in daylight, the percentage of deer photographed in daylight has increased substantially. In a little over one month, I have only one photo of a deer at about 3:30 in the morning. The other dozen or so photo's are of deer in legal shooting hours and most of those in the typical first hour of the morning or last hour of daylight. The old ratio was about 60% taken in the dark after shooting hours when the neighbor feed the deer. The acorn production is about the same as last year too.

Not many deer photographed because I hunt in a low density deer population area. I have a photo of only one 6 point.


----------



## skipper34

Captain of the 4-C's said:


> I hunt on state land in Kalkaska county. One neighbor owns a little less than 40 acres right next to the state land and used to feed the deer year round. He has stopped doing that and if I compare the number of night time photos to those taken in daylight, the percentage of deer photographed in daylight has increased substantially. In a little over one month, I have only one photo of a deer at about 3:30 in the morning. The other dozen or so photo's are of deer in legal shooting hours and most of those in the typical first hour of the morning or last hour of daylight. The old ratio was about 60% taken in the dark after shooting hours when the neighbor feed the deer. The acorn production is about the same as last year too.
> 
> Not many deer photographed because I hunt in a low density deer population area. I have a photo of only one 6 point.


We used to see many more deer during daylight hours where we hunt when the first baiting ban was put into place in the TB zone. When it became legal in PI county, our daylight sightings fell way down.


----------



## Hunters Edge

brookie1 said:


> There is a big difference. Hunters put out bait and replenish it through the season, selectively killing a deer or two. Meanwhile deer continue to visit the same bait sites over a course of weeks or months. When baiting is legal statewide there are literally hundreds of thousands of bait sites across the state, not including mineral sites and recreational feeding. A cull is a one time event where a bait pile is put out and as many deer as possible are killed over a day or two. Then the baiting ends.


1. First your post is not over the effectiveness, knowing how well it works which proved my point.

2. Second natural bait sites your post is far from correct if it was we would be ripping apple, oak, hickory, beechnut etc trees out of the ground. We would also stop food plots spreading 24/7, 365 days a year.

3. Third In areas of bait in woods nothing, I repeat nothing grows if anything weeds not desirable for deers palate and not much if any because of woods canopy, no sun light.

4 Fourth the kill may take a week but when sharp shooters bait many times it is for at least a month before the kill. This in your posts contaminates the site. The same or very similar to your post on indirect transference. It still shows the effectiveness of the use of bait.

5 Fifth many using bait may only bait for a week or two. One in archery one during firearm there are exceptions but most hunters do not hunt for 3 months every day or bait that entire time frame.

6 Sixth how many bird feeders are still actually feeding deer and will continue to do so? Along with refer to second natural bait sites.

7 Seventh if you take away an effective tool the harvest goal will not be met. Especially if you also count those who buy just one tag not combo. It will also be affected by those who stop hunting. Lastly even just less time in the woods will equate to less kills or harvested deer. You can not kill a deer/ buck in bed, couch or in the house. Less days afield will also effect harvest numbers which has been seen or observed by me and others posting.

8 Eighth if less deer are killed or harvested it will spread the disease faster and further, that's a fact.

Well maybe not fact just common sense.


----------



## DecoySlayer

Hunters Edge said:


> It is an effective tool used by sharpshooters. It is also an effective tool used by hunters. No difference in the use of bait or it's effectiveness in either scenario.
> 
> Need is not correct it's want. It's also a choice.



Or a crutch. I still want to know, and I ask this all the time and no one ever answer. Michigan is in the minority of states, that hunt deer, and allow baiting, for them. One, why is that? Two, how come hunters in those states are able to do well on deer without baiting?


----------



## brookie1

Hunters Edge said:


> 1. First your post is not over the effectiveness, knowing how well it works which proved my point.
> 
> 2. Second natural bait sites your post is far from correct if it was we would be ripping apple, oak, hickory, beechnut etc trees out of the ground. We would also stop food plots spreading 24/7, 365 days a year.
> 
> 3. Third In areas of bait in woods nothing, I repeat nothing grows if anything weeds not desirable for deers palate and not much if any because of woods canopy, no sun light.
> 
> 4 Fourth the kill may take a week but when sharp shooters bait many times it is for at least a month before the kill. This in your posts contaminates the site. The same or very similar to your post on indirect transference. It still shows the effectiveness of the use of bait.
> 
> 5 Fifth many using bait may only bait for a week or two. One in archery one during firearm there are exceptions but most hunters do not hunt for 3 months every day or bait that entire time frame.
> 
> 6 Sixth how many bird feeders are still actually feeding deer and will continue to do so? Along with refer to second natural bait sites.
> 
> 7 Seventh if you take away an effective tool the harvest goal will not be met. Especially if you also count those who buy just one tag not combo. It will also be affected by those who stop hunting. Lastly even just less time in the woods will equate to less kills or harvested deer. You can not kill a deer/ buck in bed, couch or in the house. Less days afield will also effect harvest numbers which has been seen or observed by me and others posting.
> 
> 8 Eighth if less deer are killed or harvested it will spread the disease faster and further, that's a fact.


Baiting and killing most of the deer in a concentrated area over a few days is not the same as baiting and selective killing over a course of weeks and months. You know that. During the day when I am hunting I like to follow tracks and see where the deer go and what they do. My experience when there are a bunch of bait piles all over the woods is that a single group will hit them all. They know where the bait piles are and will walk past normal food sources like recent cuttings to get to them. They don't stay long at each pile and of course different groups will use the same bait piles. Since these diseases (I know, CWD is actually a prion) can live on the remaining bait, they can be spread to other deer that way. Not the same as baiting deer into a concentrated area and killing most, if not all of them over a single bait pile.


----------



## Hunters Edge

DecoySlayer said:


> Or a crutch. I still want to know, and I ask this all the time and no one ever answer. Michigan is in the minority of states, that hunt deer, and allow baiting, for them. One, why is that? Two, how come hunters in those states are able to do well on deer without baiting?


Many still do last I checked 22 states still allow baiting of some. Now not all states have whitetail deer or an issue with the population. Many states now have whitetail deer that in the past did not. You could look at it as a species increasing their range, or you could also look at it that the regulations they have are not enough to stop an increase in population and it's expanding range.

I think they have shown they do not do well with controlling the population, or stopping the spread of CWD. IMO


----------



## mbrewer

ArrowFlinger said:


> Not baiting is a lot cheaper and more affordable than baiting.
> Public land is free.
> You can camp on public land for free.
> So, if money is your concern, I can spend less on gas and food for a 2 week trip than you probably spend on bait in a year.
> 
> Bait is a crutch, not a requirement to be successful.
> Where baiting is legal, go for it.
> Where it is not, follow the rules.


Time is money.

The cost associated with Baiting in relation to time spent is an important and neglected part of your analogy. The weekend warriors that so many of us are, are going to do what they can to leverage time available and time spent. Hopefully, as you suggest, within the confines of law.

I could suggest hopping on one leg is cheaper than buying a crutch but my argument loses some steam if I'm also suggesting cheaper is better.


----------



## DecoySlayer

Hunters Edge said:


> Many still do last I checked 22 states still allow baiting of some. Now not all states have whitetail deer or an issue with the population. Many states now have whitetail deer that in the past did not. You could look at it as a species increasing their range, or you could also look at it that the regulations they have are not enough to stop an increase in population and it's expanding range.
> 
> I think they have shown they do not do well with controlling the population, or stopping the spread of CWD. IMO



But the majority do not allow it, or only in selected areas. The majority of the United States, and much of Canada, has historically had whitetail populations. There is a very good chart that shows the distribution of whitetails and the various sub species.

https://www.whitetailsunlimited.com/i/p/bk_distribution.pdf


----------



## mbrewer

Hunters Edge said:


> Or choice?


Choice is a given but that too is based on desire.


----------



## Scout 2

Captain of the 4-C's said:


> I hunt on state land in Kalkaska county. One neighbor owns a little less than 40 acres right next to the state land and used to feed the deer year round. He has stopped doing that and if I compare the number of night time photos to those taken in daylight, the percentage of deer photographed in daylight has increased substantially. In a little over one month, I have only one photo of a deer at about 3:30 in the morning. The other dozen or so photo's are of deer in legal shooting hours and most of those in the typical first hour of the morning or last hour of daylight. The old ratio was about 60% taken in the dark after shooting hours when the neighbor feed the deer. The acorn production is about the same as last year too.
> 
> Not many deer photographed because I hunt in a low density deer population area. I have a photo of only one 6 point.


This time of year there are a lot of things that could cause that such as a change in the weather or their food supply has changed and no one bothering them. Before anyone baited we use to see an increase in deer movement during the day one it started to freeze at night. I am not that far from Kalkaska. Find apple trees and you will find deer in them all day now that the apples have started to fall


----------



## Hunters Edge

brookie1 said:


> Baiting and killing most of the deer in a concentrated area over a few days is not the same as baiting and selective killing over a course of weeks and months. You know that. During the day when I am hunting I like to follow tracks and see where the deer go and what they do. My experience when there are a bunch of bait piles all over the woods is that a single group will hit them all. They know where the bait piles are and will walk past normal food sources like recent cuttings to get to them. They don't stay long at each pile and of course different groups will use the same bait piles. Since these diseases (I know, CWD is actually a prion) can live on the remaining bait, they can be spread to other deer that way. Not the same as baiting deer into a concentrated area and killing most, if not all of them over a single bait pile.


When your walking those trails you along with deer are walking on their feces and urine. Also any plant tree it feeds on or browse on along that runway does the same indirect transference and those trails run for miles.



brookie1 said:


> They know where the bait piles are and will walk past normal food sources like recent cuttings to get to them. T


In your own words what is the difference between natural food source spreading the disease or natural bait put there? None. Also that natural food source will be there later to get through winter. If ate beforehand nothing for winter feeding, browse. Also note if they are eating bait they are not killing natural browse or the forest regeneration. Have you ever seen the damage to plants and trees while walking through their feces and urine, along deer trails.


----------



## Scout 2

brookie1 said:


> There is a big difference. Hunters put out bait and replenish it through the season, selectively killing a deer or two. Meanwhile deer continue to visit the same bait sites over a course of weeks or months. When baiting is legal statewide there are literally hundreds of thousands of bait sites across the state, not including mineral sites and recreational feeding. A cull is a one time event where a bait pile is put out and as many deer as possible are killed over a day or two. Then the baiting ends.


Maybe in some areas with low food supply but when we baited here during the 80's once the bait was gone most of the deer left for areas with a better foodsupply and it only took a couple of days


----------



## mbrewer

DecoySlayer said:


> Or a crutch. I still want to know, and I ask this all the time and no one ever answer. Michigan is in the minority of states, that hunt deer, and allow baiting, for them. One, why is that? Two, how come hunters in those states are able to do well on deer without baiting?


If you want that to mean something you would have to understand what hunters in other states would choose to do if baiting were a legal option and further, the results of their choices.


----------



## Waif

brookie1 said:


> Baiting and killing most of the deer in a concentrated area over a few days is not the same as baiting and selective killing over a course of weeks and months. You know that. During the day when I am hunting I like to follow tracks and see where the deer go and what they do. My experience when there are a bunch of bait piles all over the woods is that a single group will hit them all. They know where the bait piles are and will walk past normal food sources like recent cuttings to get to them. They don't stay long at each pile and of course different groups will use the same bait piles. Since these diseases (I know, CWD is actually a prion) can live on the remaining bait, they can be spread to other deer that way. Not the same as baiting deer into a concentrated area and killing most, if not all of them over a single bait pile.


And for the sake of argument...
I've tracked a deer , eventually to where it had browsed , then continued to where it was not browsing and it started zigging in dense pine cover...Left it's track to swing ahead repeatedly checking that cover and shot it in it's bed at a few feet , and it had avoided multiple baited spots.
Not the only deer that avoided bait. It had left public land that one different morning had about a dozen hunters spaced within sight of each other across the cover deer used to cross the road.
And other hunters walking around ,talking,banging doors ect..
It's not a big mystery that some deer avoided bait. Bait=humans usually, if a deer is experienced in monitoring a site.

I'm not speaking for any majority of previous baiters , but suspect many of them hunted a zone type defense (limited space among competition) and in marginal habitat figured the results would at least be signs of deer activity , vs none.
Sign is hope.


----------



## Hunters Edge

mbrewer said:


> Choice is a given but that too is based on desire.


I cordially disagree. Many times I desired something and did without. Sometimes it was from cost/finances, responsibilities, pride, etc., etc,. Many reasons other than desire, choice is the option to follow ones desire, or not.


----------



## DecoySlayer

Baiting does disrupt natural mov


mbrewer said:


> If you want that to mean something you would have to understand what hunters in other states would choose to do if baiting were a legal option and further, the results of their choices.



That was not the question. How can they kill deer without bait? How have I killed so many without the use of bait? When I started hunting, in Michigan, at age 14, baiting was considered unethical.


----------



## brookie1

[


Hunters Edge said:


> When your walking those trails you along with deer are walking on their feces and urine. Also any plant tree it feeds on or browse on along that runway does the same indirect transference and those trails run for miles.
> 
> 
> 
> In your own words what is the difference between natural food source spreading the disease or natural bait put there? None. Also that natural food source will be there later to get through winter. If ate beforehand nothing for winter feeding, browse. Also note if they are eating bait they are not killing natural browse or the forest regeneration. Have you ever seen the damage to plants and trees while walking through their feces and urine, along deer trails.


It appears you have no clue about how deer feed when there are no bait piles around. You've probably never watched deer browse through a cutover for example. If you did you would stop with the comparisons.


----------



## DecoySlayer

brookie1 said:


> [
> 
> It appears you have no clue about how deer feed when there are no bait piles around. You've probably never watched deer browse through a cutover for example. If you did you would stop with the comparisons.



Cut overs provide a TON of food for deer. Deer thrive in them! New growth is better for the majority of species. Old growth supports little.


----------



## Scout 2

brookie1 said:


> [
> 
> It appears you have no clue about how deer feed when there are no bait piles around. You've probably never watched deer browse through a cutover for example. If you did you would stop with the comparisons.


In my 63 years of hunting I have. The one thing I saw with bait is it will make the deer move where they normally would not have on their own. Once the bait was gone they went back to the reg patterns of movement. Many that hunt bait sit on top of it and this decrease the effective use of it. We use to use spin feeders and I have sat way back away from them and watched them. Many bucks came in before the feeder went off and would wait for dinner. Let that feeder go empty for a week and they would leave that area


----------



## Hunters Edge

DecoySlayer said:


> But the majority do not allow it, or only in selected areas. The majority of the United States, and much of Canada, has historically had whitetail populations. There is a very good chart that shows the distribution of whitetails and the various sub species.
> 
> https://www.whitetailsunlimited.com/i/p/bk_distribution.pdf


LOL not every state even has whitetail deer. Now you want to bring in another country. Man you are definitely against baiting. Take your blinders off.


----------



## Scout 2

DecoySlayer said:


> Cut overs provide a TON of food for deer. Deer thrive in them! New growth is better for the majority of species. Old growth supports little.


Bedding areas also


----------



## Waif

mbrewer said:


> Time is money.
> 
> The cost associated with Baiting in relation to time spent is an important and neglected part of your analogy. The weekend warriors that so many of us are, are going to do what they can to leverage time available and time spent. Hopefully, as you suggest, within the confines of law.
> 
> I could suggest hopping on one leg is cheaper than buying a crutch but my argument loses some steam if I'm also suggesting cheaper is better.


Hopping on one leg is over rated.
More so with a bad knee. True story!

Bait ,or crop ,or seductive browse can add much to limited option of range.
Wanderlust and serendipity in extended cruising range where range is accessible is great for those able to enjoy it.
Plenty of hunters find an area and call it good. Others own or visit a site and call it good.
I'm reminded of two guys who hung out at a parking area reluctant to venture forth in their quest for new ground to hunt for fear of interfering with others...They meant well. But could have been the type to get in a spot and not leave it in future hunts if other hunters did not run them off. Add bait for luck. Maybe deer will come to them...

Postage stamp sized chess boards don't temp chess champions lusts. But they're still boards.
When baiting a square might up the odds of success where legal , there will always be folks willing to try upping odds that way.


----------



## sureshot006

brookie1 said:


> oh geez, here we go.


Oh geez? Not sure why that's a big deal. You're saying there was an increase in hunters. Wasn't it 2009 that xbows were made legal for everyone? Or am I off a year or 2?


----------



## Hunters Edge

brookie1 said:


> [
> 
> It appears you have no clue about how deer feed when there are no bait piles around. You've probably never watched deer browse through a cutover for example. If you did you would stop with the comparisons.


Your blind to the fact of prions. Unless you can remove them all, it does nothing to stop the disease. FYI I grew up with cutting 20 acres every other year with Abitibi it's you that can not see the forest through the trees. Or maybe if it was a snake it would of bit you, your walking on it and do not see the problem or impact it has.


----------



## brookie1

Hunters Edge said:


> Your blind to the fact of prions. Unless you can remove them all, it does nothing to stop the disease. FYI I grew up with cutting 20 acres every other year with Abitibi it's you that can not see the forest through the trees. Or maybe if it was a snake it would of bit you, your walking on it and do not see the problem or impact it has.


I said culling and baiting are different. That's it. Believe it or not, I don't care, but it doesn't change the facts.


----------



## brookie1

sureshot006 said:


> Oh geez? Not sure why that's a big deal. You're saying there was an increase in hunters. Wasn't it 2009 that xbows were made legal for everyone? Or am I off a year or 2?


My point was that a bunch of baiters didn't quit during the last bait ban. The way people are talking half the baiters are quitting this year. We should lose a couple hundred thousand baiters. I don't see it.


----------



## Hunters Edge

brookie1 said:


> I said culling and baiting are different. That's it. Believe it or not, I don'r care, but it doesn't change the facts.


The fact that it is an effective tool.


----------



## poz

DecoySlayer said:


> Or a crutch. I still want to know, and I ask this all the time and no one ever answer. Michigan is in the minority of states, that hunt deer, and allow baiting, for them. One, why is that? Two, how come hunters in those states are able to do well on deer without baiting?


2 things, 
In those other states you are allowed to feed deer all year round without limits. No two gallon rules. Just can't hunt over it. I can have a ton of corn or carrots out 2/3rds of the the year. It's not banned for disease, just for hunting.
Second, the places I hunted out of state was like it was in the 80s and 90s here. Saw tons of deer everywhere, every sit. Not hard to be successful.


----------



## Hunters Edge

brookie1 said:


> My point was that a bunch of baiters didn't quit during the last bait ban. The way people are talking half the baiters are quitting this year. We should lose a couple hundred thousand baiters. I don't see it.


You do not understand tradition or the impact it has. Every person knows on average 200 people. This is family, friends, acquaintances so when that one person walks away he is not mentoring any of those 200 into hunting. Now what's important is the ones he/she may or would have mentored, and even more so on those they mentored and the 200 they know and so on and so forth.

tra·di·tion
/trəˈdiSH(ə)n/
Learn to pronounce
_noun_

1.
the transmission of customs or beliefs from generation to generation, or the fact of being passed on in this way.

The torch gets stopped from being passed on. Again it's not the thousands to that walk away it's the multiple thousands who never know. The bait ban started in the mid 90s in the TB zone not just in 2007. Look and see a direct correlation to attrition in hunters. Now we can debate whether disease or bait was the contributing cause but the effect is pretty plain for me to see. I can see it happening around me, which I have posted. The biggest drop will take about three years, the repercussions from this will last for decades. 

Maybe sooner on any item put to vote. Just look at the vote on dove hunting. We can not afford to lose or in this case drive hunters and future hunters away.


----------



## sureshot006

brookie1 said:


> My point was that a bunch of baiters didn't quit during the last bait ban. The way people are talking half the baiters are quitting this year. We should lose a couple hundred thousand baiters. I don't see it.


Violation was also rampant.


----------



## feedinggrounds

Craves said:


> Bell invented it...You know, the phone...
> 
> Call your local DNR and find out what they have done in your area. My phone call resulted in them marking up a map & them emailing it to me.
> 
> And the beat goes on...


So you're just blowing a horn...All over the state you said, fruit trees also, so you now say your knowledge is of your area? Your broad statement has narrowed up a lot. The beat has missed a beat.


----------



## Craves

feedinggrounds said:


> So you're just blowing a horn...All over the state you said, fruit trees also, so you now say your knowledge is of your area? Your broad statement has narrowed up a lot. The beat has missed a beat.


Ummm...no

I hunt different parts of the state, both public & private. Sorry I can't hand feed you every bit of work that has been done over the entire state. I could send you some pictures of the caged fruit trees on public land where I hunt next time I am up there. They even caged up some young cedar also near the river.

Reads like you are too lazy to do a little leg work & make a few phone calls....but that is not surprising given some of the posts in this soon to be closed thread.

And the beat goes on...


----------



## bigbuckmiddaugh

DecoySlayer said:


> Not a valid comparison. I will say, however, that I often use plastic lures for catfish as opposed to live bait. By the way, what live bait works for deer? Minnows or crayfish?


Plants are living! So ,Food plots can be considered live bait!


----------



## feedinggrounds

I hunt different parts of the state, both public & private. Sorry I can't hand feed you every bit of work that has been done over the entire state. I could send you some pictures of the caged fruit trees on public land where I hunt next time I am up there. They even caged up some young cedar also near the river.

Reads like you are too lazy to do a little leg work & make a few phone calls....but that is not surprising given some of the posts in this soon to be closed thread. No, not lazy at all.I had enough energy to try and qualify your "Garbage, pure unadultered garbage" anti baiting post. Yeah count this as another vote to close the thread. 

And the beat goes on...[/QUOTE]


----------



## Craves

feedinggrounds said:


> I hunt different parts of the state, both public & private. Sorry I can't hand feed you every bit of work that has been done over the entire state. I could send you some pictures of the caged fruit trees on public land where I hunt next time I am up there. They even caged up some young cedar also near the river.
> 
> Reads like you are too lazy to do a little leg work & make a few phone calls....but that is not surprising given some of the posts in this soon to be closed thread. No, not lazy at all.I had enough energy to try and qualify your "Garbage, pure unadultered garbage" anti baiting post. Yeah count this as another vote to close the thread.
> 
> And the beat goes on...


[/QUOTE]


----------



## beer and nuts

Craves, to my best of knowledge planting of rye fields has deceased on state land. And fruit trees!? Never heard that before. Cedar trees along rivers has almost always been done by private citizens and groups, even on state land, may have been a dnr rep in helping!? At least under my neck of woods.


----------



## Luv2hunteup

Entertaining thread to say the least. Haves/have nots, hunters/lazy hunters, bait/food plots plus APRs, nocturnal/day light movers. Some even say it’s takes a lot of skill to find a spot to bait. It’s the new norm get used to it. Follow the law or not, ethics is doing the right thing when no one is looking.

The solution is simple if you want to legally bait, hunt all but 600 sq miles of the UP. 6 million acres of land open to public hunting that has low pressure plus the best age structure in the state. Some will get caught and pay a fine most illegal baiters won’t get caught. The DNR will make an example of a few who kill a trophy deer over bait and receive a 5 figure fine. I’m sure we will see that thread posted here how unfair that is.

Good luck this season with the new rules.


----------



## Luv2hunteup

beer and nuts said:


> Craves, to my best of knowledge planting of rye fields has deceased on state land. And fruit trees!? Never heard that before. Cedar trees along rivers has almost always been done by private citizens and groups, even on state land, may have been a dnr rep in helping!? At least under my neck of woods.


It’s time for you to broaden your horizons. Fruit trees, rye, hay, buckwheat and corn is still being planted. One tract I hunt has 100s of new caged fruit trees plus 100s of acres of crop fields planted for wildlife. The farmers crop share public land. They get half, usually the center portion, while the perimeter is left for wildlife. Great program for the public land hunter.


----------



## Craves

beer and nuts said:


> Craves, to my best of knowledge planting of rye fields has deceased on state land. And fruit trees!? Never heard that before. Cedar trees along rivers has almost always been done by private citizens and groups, even on state land, may have been a dnr rep in helping!? At least under my neck of woods.


I can only go by what I have experienced. Did private/public groups work with the state to plant the trees? I don't know...all I can tell you is that they are there and are caged.

I have talked with 2 different DNR offices as to the locations of their food plot work. One years ago, one this year. In both cases, I got maps that showed me where they were at. I have hunted others in different parts of the state over the years we have found by doing the leg work.

If hunting food plots is your thing, there are opportunities out there on public land.


----------



## brookie1

They have been planting openings near where I hunt for the last few years. Deer mostly ignore them except at night where they stay in groups near the edge based on tracks I've seen.


----------



## sniper

Adams State game has a local farmer plant row crops among countless tree and bush plantings over the years.










Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


----------



## poz

DecoySlayer said:


> My point is you can take deer, anywhere they are at, without baiting.


And without food plot, mineral licks, watering holes, and hinge cutting also. But people spend alot of money to have an easier hunt.


----------



## poz

Craves said:


> Garbage...pure unadulterated garbage.
> 
> The DNR plants FOOD plots on state land all over the state. They plant fruit trees also.
> 
> Different groups do habitat work on public land all over the state...get off your arse and get involved.
> 
> The amount of close minded ridiculous opinions shared in this thread is really quite concerning.
> 
> And the beat goes on....


Yes they do and if you go hunt them you will find other people hunting them also, most food plots I've seen planted are 5 to 10 acres. How many gun hunters can hunt that at one time.


----------



## Dish7




----------



## Hunters Edge

Impacts of the bait ban? Pretty obvious by this thread. It's a wall, divide and conquer come to mind and it's deep within our hunting ranks. Especially with more than one commenting let them go, very unfortunate. Not just the statements, posts, or attitude but the downhill slope some are applauding. Especially when the majority approve of baiting in and outside of CWD areas.

https://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/threads/poll-baiting-in-michigan.662995/


----------



## Dish7

I've always been neutral when it comes to baiting. Could not care less either way. But the more I read threads like this, the more I don't give a rats ass who quits over it. Hopefully this is just internet fodder and not truly representative of the sportsman of our state.


----------



## Dale Malusi

feedinggrounds said:


> Where does one find a link to these places you speak of, and how many in Ogemaw county? I am aware of barren massive planted jackpine warbler habitat just north of Ogemaw but nothing for deer.


There are actually a few in Ogemaw County. They are in no way like the plots put in on private land. They are in plain sight of roads and two tracks, a few off of Macgregor Rd. A shiners' paradise, more tire tracks than anything. Come Nov 14th they are decorated in orange tape and have hunters from SE Mich posted on all four corners.


----------



## RMH

DecoySlayer said:


> Not a valid comparison. I will say, however, that I often use plastic lures for catfish as opposed to live bait. By the way, what live bait works for deer? Minnows or crayfish?


Well, if they fall for crankbaits I'm sure minnows would work.









Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## poz

What you guys fail to realize is that although people might not quit hunting they may quit the number of times they travel to hunt, thus impacting the sport. Many guys have cabins up north, many of these sit on small parcels 5-20 acres. Before they could have a feeder out or have a friend or neighbor go bait their stand. Thus giving them a good chance at seeing or harvesting a deer of they go up friday after work, If your cabin is 3 to 4 hours away. If you leave friday afternoon, you might get a hunt in that night and then Saturday morning, night and Sunday morning. So possibly 4 hunts. But in reality it's two morning hunts and one evening hunt. Friday night hunt can be ruined by hitting traffic on the way up. If the guy works a lot and can't get up to scout and doesn't have food plots or anything to attract the deer to his land, he may quit hunting up there. Before he knew he had a good chance at seeing deer, now it probably won't see deer on his property. So why take a trip up there. Instead of 10 trips a season he may take only two. That's what makes people eventually quit hunting. They quit going as much and then quit all together.


----------



## MichMatt

I fall into that catagory 205 miles to my cottage. Tough unless you are willing to use some selective vacation time to make longer weekends. And I dont own property, so I am regulated to public land around the MNF. I do try to scout some during the mid day if chores allow. 

Often I have things to do at the cottage when I'm up there so that also cuts into the hunting time. 

To me it's a combination of fun and work (some times alot of work) to enjoy my little piece of paradise.


poz said:


> What you guys fail to realize is that although people might not quit hunting they may quit the number of times they travel to hunt, thus impacting the sport. Many guys have cabins up north, many of these sit on small parcels 5-20 acres. Before they could have a feeder out or have a friend or neighbor go bait their stand. Thus giving them a good chance at seeing or harvesting a deer of they go up friday after work, If your cabin is 3 to 4 hours away. If you leave friday afternoon, you might get a hunt in that night and then Saturday morning, night and Sunday morning. So possibly 4 hunts. But in reality it's two morning hunts and one evening hunt. Friday night hunt can be ruined by hitting traffic on the way up. If the guy works a lot and can't get up to scout and doesn't have food plots or anything to attract the deer to his land, he may quit hunting up there. Before he knew he had a good chance at seeing deer, now it probably won't see deer on his property. So why take a trip up there. Instead of 10 trips a season he may take only two. That's what makes people eventually quit hunting. They quit going as much and then quit all together.


Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## RedM2

Craves said:


> Garbage...pure unadulterated garbage.
> 
> The DNR plants FOOD plots on state land all over the state. They plant fruit trees also.
> 
> Different groups do habitat work on public land all over the state...get off your arse and get involved.
> 
> The amount of close minded ridiculous opinions shared in this thread is really quite concerning.
> 
> And the beat goes on....


Gotta disagree with you. You are either being naive or intentionally misrepresenting what'll happen. I see it happening with my own eyes on 120 acres with 10 total acres of food plots. Additionally, I didn't reference public land.


----------



## DecoySlayer

poz said:


> And without food plot, mineral licks, watering holes, and hinge cutting also. But people spend alot of money to have an easier hunt.


That is what is about, easy, nothing more.


----------



## poz

DecoySlayer said:


> That is what is about, easy, nothing more.


That's what you seem to think.


----------



## DecoySlayer

poz said:


> That's what you seem to think.



Is that not what you wrote? I was just agreeing with you.


----------



## Craves

poz said:


> Yes they do and if you go hunt them you will find other people hunting them also, most food plots I've seen planted are 5 to 10 acres. How many gun hunters can hunt that at one time.


Oh my goodness...what was I thinking. 

Yep, the DNR should be making 650k of food plots so everyone has their own.

And the beat goes on...


----------



## RedM2

DecoySlayer said:


> That is what is about, easy, nothing more.


What types of hunting do you do? Do you fish as well?


----------



## Hunters Edge

Craves said:


> Oh my goodness...what was I thinking.
> 
> Yep, the DNR should be making 650k of food plots so everyone has their own.
> 
> And the beat goes on...


Here I thought it was for wildlife, habitat improvement. If it is done for the benefit of wildlife, why not?


----------



## DecoySlayer

I deer hunt, a little now, my legs won't let me do what I used to do. When I was younger I hunted deer 30-40 days a year, in 3 states. MD, PA, VA. Most of that time was still hunting.

I still do a fair bit of duck hunting. It's just now coming up to my time of the year. 

I used to guide deer, in VA. I used to work on a charter boat out of Ocean City, MD. I have guided trout, in PA and trout and salmon in NY. 

I still walleye and perch fish.

I wish I could hunt the way I used to, it was FAR more fun than sitting all day.


----------



## Hunters Edge

DecoySlayer said:


> That is what is about, easy, nothing more.


Definitely not as easy as just hiring a guide. Is that what you posted doing?


----------



## DecoySlayer

I have taken deer in SC, PA, VA, MD, MA, and MI. I have fished in England, Scotland and Wales. Shot vermin, rabbits, hare, wood pigeons, etc, in England and Scotland. Hunted waterfowl in England and Japan and fished in Japan.


----------



## DecoySlayer

Hunters Edge said:


> Definitely not as easy as just hiring a guide. Is that what you posted doing?



Not as easy at all, more fun too. I hire the guide because it gets me access to private property that I otherwise could not hunt. He takes care of the deer, if I shoot one, which solves the problem of no longer being able to drag them out.

It's not what I enjoy, but, it's better than sitting in the house. I used to drag for the "old guys", I have no one to help me now that life has caught up to me.

OH YEAH, I forgot, I have hunted rabbits in FL, and deer and waterfowl in LA. 

I would LOVE to be able to get out and hunt like i used to do, I do miss it.


----------



## DecoySlayer

OH YEAH, I forgot, I fished for salmon and halibut in British Columbia.


----------



## Hunters Edge

DecoySlayer said:


> Not as easy at all, more fun too. I hire the guide because it gets me access to private property that I otherwise could not hunt. He takes care of the deer, if I shoot one, which solves the problem of no longer being able to drag them out.
> 
> It's not what I enjoy, but, it's better than sitting in the house. I used to drag for the "old guys", I have no one to help me now that life has caught up to me.
> 
> OH YEAH, I forgot, I have hunted rabbits in FL, and deer and waterfowl in LA.
> 
> I would LOVE to be able to get out and hunt like i used to do, I do miss it.


Blah, blah, blah which is easier was the jest of the post. Instead you do not answer but go off on past hunts.

What I find hard to understand is you love being out in the woods, but drive others away from it, just because they want to use bait? Either hunt the way I say or want, attitude.

Many of those will stop deer hunting because they LOVE hunting over bait. Not need but want to be able to use bait.


----------



## DecoySlayer

Hunters Edge said:


> Blah, blah, blah which is easier was the jest of the post. Instead you do not answer but go off on past hunts.
> 
> What I find hard to understand is you love being out in the woods, but drive others away from it, just because they want to use bait? Either hunt the way I say or want, attitude.
> 
> Many of those will stop deer hunting because they LOVE hunting over bait. Not need but want to be able to use bait.



I just answered the question I was asked, nothing more. 

Again, when did I EVER say that baiting should be outlawed? I have ALWAYS said if it's legal, do what you want. If it's made illegal, and you bait, you are poaching. AND, there is no NEED to bait to take deer. I even contend that baiting can have negative affects on deer hunting in some cases.


----------



## Hunters Edge

DecoySlayer said:


> I just answered the question I was asked, nothing more.
> 
> Again, when did I EVER say that baiting should be outlawed? I have ALWAYS said if it's legal, do what you want. If it's made illegal, and you bait, you are poaching. AND, there is no NEED to bait to take deer. I even contend that baiting can have negative affects on deer hunting in some cases.


Listen you can write how many negative posts on baiting in several threads. Also false statements as NEED to bait when no one ever stated that besides you. When asked to show you inferred others post must mean need. Your an anti baiter and your posts are deragatory to anyone wanting to use bait or change present regulations to allow baiting. You do not show any compassion to those who have or will stop hunting because of the ban. 

I knew a guy once that acted similar. He cut a piece of trim, it was to short. He went and cut it again in the miter box, and again it was to short. He was on his way to cut it again when I stopped him. I tried explaining to now avail, I then physically laid the trim on the floor and used my hand and showed if he cut another sliver off it would be here, and pointed and that's when he figured it out. For this reason I will try not answering your posts on this thread.


----------



## DecoySlayer

Make it personal if it makes you feel better.


----------



## Craves

RedM2 said:


> Gotta disagree with you. You are either being naive or intentionally misrepresenting what'll happen. I see it happening with my own eyes on 120 acres with 10 total acres of food plots. Additionally, I didn't reference public land.


Huh?
What am I "misrepresenting "?

What have you seen with your own eyes on 120 acres with 10 total acres of food plots?

You did indirectly mention public land with your statement I quoted. 

Bottom line...There are public lands that have had habitat improvements that include food plots, and mast tree plantings. Do the leg work, go check them out, and if you like what you see hunt them...or try to figure out how the get there and cut them off before they get there...or just whine & complain on the internet about those with the means have an unfair advantage. 

I'll be in the woods either way...


----------



## DecoySlayer

AND, in case you don't understand it, I have NOTHING to do with passing the regulations. I don't answer the DNR surveys on deer. I have no input at all. SO, don't blame me. I didn't do it! In fact, when it comes to baiting, I frankly don't care either way. If it's legal I might use it, if it's illegal, I won't. Pretty darn simple.


----------



## mbrewer

poz said:


> What you guys fail to realize is that although people might not quit hunting they may quit the number of times they travel to hunt, thus impacting the sport. Many guys have cabins up north, many of these sit on small parcels 5-20 acres. Before they could have a feeder out or have a friend or neighbor go bait their stand. Thus giving them a good chance at seeing or harvesting a deer of they go up friday after work, If your cabin is 3 to 4 hours away. If you leave friday afternoon, you might get a hunt in that night and then Saturday morning, night and Sunday morning. So possibly 4 hunts. But in reality it's two morning hunts and one evening hunt. Friday night hunt can be ruined by hitting traffic on the way up. If the guy works a lot and can't get up to scout and doesn't have food plots or anything to attract the deer to his land, he may quit hunting up there. Before he knew he had a good chance at seeing deer, now it probably won't see deer on his property. So why take a trip up there. Instead of 10 trips a season he may take only two. That's what makes people eventually quit hunting. They quit going as much and then quit all together.


That's pretty much the way it goes regardless of what the reason for stopping might be. Attrition is slow and steady not fast and sudden.


----------



## DecoySlayer

Same with all changes. Too much doe hunting, not enough doe hunting, MAPR's, too many special seasons, not enough special seasons, not having an opener on your day off, etc etc etc.


----------



## jiggin is livin

swampbuck said:


> Turning the soil makes no difference. The prions are forever. They build up in soil, are taken up by the Roots, and transmitted through the foliage or fruits.
> 
> The only difference is that the food plots and trees are much larger bio accumulators of prions, remain in the same place for years, or even generations, and attract far greater numbers over a much longer time frame.
> 
> Long term, they are far worse.
> 
> Even the MDNR has recognized the food plot risks.
> 
> But it gives the Health of the herd guys plausible denial, at least in the short term. Until their ground reaches the saturation point.
> 
> Remember where and how it was discovered in a heavily QDM area in Wisconsin....lots of color on that map now.
> 
> Here is a little refresher, a lot has been learned since then
> https://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/hunting/2007/09/deer-hunting-risk-heartland/
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-S367VL using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Perfectly said! That is the FACTS that bother me. If they outlaw feeding/baiting, actually outlaw all of it. I would totally support it. But the selective part of it is what I oppose. I'm not good with hypocrisy and ignorance of these morons. 

As it sits now, I wouldn't report a single bait pile, no matter the circumstances. If they right the wrongs, I would report all feeding/baiting. Until then, F the law.


retired dundo said:


> I just can’t understand what is the difference between my neighbors bait pile and my small 30 by 30 yard food plot?Except my plot is ther a lot longer than his bait pile


Exactly! 

PS, there is no difference, other than the legal method is far more harmful to the cause they are SUPPOSEDLY trying to help. 

Sent from my E6810 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Scout 2

jr28schalm said:


> How hard is it to write someone else's name on a stand.lol..I can move them Friday for you


Just put the local CO's name on them as the will become his if they are found


----------



## Scout 2

jiggin is livin said:


> Perfectly said! That is the FACTS that bother me. If they outlaw feeding/baiting, actually outlaw all of it. I would totally support it. But the selective part of it is what I oppose. I'm not good with hypocrisy and ignorance of these morons.
> 
> As it sits now, I wouldn't report a single bait pile, no matter the circumstances. If they right the wrongs, I would report all feeding/baiting. Until then, F the law. Exactly!
> 
> PS, there is no difference, other than the legal method is far more harmful to the cause they are SUPPOSEDLY trying to help.
> 
> Sent from my E6810 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


I have said this before but when someone brings a quad or whatever from a CWD zone and any dirt falls off it into another area it will spread it. I have concerns also about seed. If it goes into the plant system it has to be in the seed also, maybe just at a lower level. You may be seeding food plots with CWD


----------



## stickbow shooter

Scout 2 said:


> I have said this before but when someone brings a quad or whatever from a CWD zone and any dirt falls off it into another area it will spread it. I have concerns also about seed. If it goes into the plant system it has to be in the seed also, maybe just at a lower level. You may be seeding food plots with CWD


Or fertilizers.


----------



## MichMatt

motdean said:


> So.....maybe taking this in a slightly different direction.
> 
> If there is a drop in hunter numbers this year (which many expect), what % drop would have you convinced that it is due to the bait ban and not simple attrition.
> 
> (I know of 2 hunters that "aged out" over the last 2 years. Neither could care less about baiting, APR's etc. One in only in his mid-50's and simply thought it was too much work.)
> 
> How many here will do their homework prior to providing an answer?


I can't speak for % but the group I bow hunt with used to be 7 active hunters. Now we get 7 of us together but only three of us hunt. One non-hunter moved out of state and doesn't want to spend $ for a tag, one just plain gave up and the other two only come up to play cards and have a couple adult beverages for a weekend. Its good to get together but less and less time being spent afield. 

So is decline this related to baiting, i doubt it. But it is telling that the entire deer hunting experience is heading in the wrong direction, IMO. Some of it is cost and success in taking an animal. But I think with more and more regulation and confusing rules we are going down a path no one wants. Who knows pretty soon you'll only be able to shoot left handed.


----------

