# Mud Motor Help



## Shotgun Willie (Oct 4, 2009)

I need help putting the right Mud Motor on my 1436. Im looking at the Mud Buddy 12hp Long Tail with the gear reduction system on it. Or the 12 HP Copperhead surface drive.

I run two big guys plus gear and have Butches runners on the bottom of the boat. I hunt 75% of my time at Shiawasse.

Ive been told that the 12Hp Mud Buddy is very slow, but will get me there. And that the surface drives have a harder time in the fields and may not tilt up enough to go over some of the ***** but are faster. 

Is anyone out there running something similar or these two motors at Shiawasse. If so what have your experiences been with Speeds, going over the *****, going through the fields.

Is anyone running something bigger on a 1436? 

Any info would be great. Thanks


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## waxico (Jan 21, 2008)

I would like to hear the recommendations for the 12hp Mud Buddy as well.

We ran out of water by opening day up on Harsens so I bought the Mud Buddy and put it on my Polar Craft modified V. I learned after buying it that they don't work with permanent boat blinds, so the 14' sea King was out.
The Polar Craft was too heavy and the v bottom was not optimal for performance.
I'm looking at a Tracker 15' for the price. I would like to get into a 16 if one comes along.

Any other suggestions? Should I get a long tail specific type of boat?
I don't care much about speed as 1 mile is as far as I will be going.


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## zx10r2004 (Sep 24, 2005)

If your going over ***** then I would go longtail. 


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## OLLIE719 (Feb 14, 2009)

My brother has the 12 hp gear reduction on a war eagle 14 36 it is not fast but will get you there,it is a great motor with two guys and gear but your not gonna set any speed records but I'm not sure how big you could go on a 14 36 because off weight issues I have a 27 on my 1448 and that weighs alot more than the 12 Imo the 12 is about perfect for a 1436


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## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

Weight is an issue on a boat that narrow. Those longtails or any mud motor for that matter are very heavy and I wouldn't go much bigger than a 12 hp. If you want to go with a larger more hp motor move up a bit in boat size. If you want a "go fast" duck boat stay away from longtails. If you are not worried about getting there before someone, which is not really a problem at Shi. I think you'll be very happy the way the longtails get you through the fields and skinny water. I've had both and love my surface drive on my 1650 but she ain't no wmu rig. 
Smoke


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## montrose trapper (Nov 14, 2006)

I have a home built 16hp on my 1436 with the runners and winch. With two guys and about 2 doz dekes I consistently get 15 mph in skinny water. In open water I get around 14 

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## Riley (Feb 18, 2009)

I bought a 12hp Copperhead for my 1436 jon last year and was very happy with it overall, with just me and a 75lb lab it would get up on plane and go around 22 to 24 mph on the gps. Mainly used it at the Harsens state game area, it was flat out awesome in the mud and weeds, prior to last season I was running a 15hp 2 stroke evinrude which weighed in at 75lbs compared to 120lbs for the surface drive, the outboard had a little more top end but would bog down in the thick stuff. Really like the fact that you can sit down or stand to drive ,have been in friends similar boat with a longtail and they were much slower and less maneuverable. Definitly louder than the outboard and no neutral or reverse but the performance in the mud is worth the trade off. Waxico I run into you at the local watering holes , if you would like to try my rig out shoot me a pm.


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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

I want to use my 1436 for fishing on the Tit in the summer time, does a long tail hinder this idea? Can you lock them up out of the water? The Copperheads (surface drive) seem nice but does more moving parts = more problems, plus do they snag up pulling over dikes?


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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

Plus I don't have anywhere to store this little beast so I will probably be renting a storage unit, the long tails you can swing around and set them in the boat, the surface drives just stick out right, adding more lenght?


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

jonesy16 said:


> Plus I don't have anywhere to store this little beast so I will probably be renting a storage unit, the long tails you can swing around and set them in the boat, the surface drives just stick out right, adding more lenght?


About the same difference as if you turn the longtail around then the motor and arm control go out the back...Most storage units you're going to store a boat in should have enough room.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

jonesy16 said:


> I want to use my 1436 for fishing on the Tit in the summer time, does a long tail hinder this idea? Can you lock them up out of the water? The Copperheads (surface drive) seem nice but does more moving parts = more problems, plus do they snag up pulling over dikes?


I used to use that boat of yours for walley on the titt....sucked trying to drift and stuff with the longtail tho. Would end up putting the 15hp on it.

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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

Even with a trolling motor....was looking at weilding a small mount on the front bar.

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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

Didn't mean to hijack the thread but I am in the same situation. Don't' know what to get.

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## montrose trapper (Nov 14, 2006)

I use mine for fishing all the time. I just use a bungee cord to wrap around the handle and hold the tail outta the water. You can make a detachable handle too if space is at a premium with a 360 spin. Plus other boats give you a wide berth up walleye fishin when you've got the motor up drifting with the trolling motor. If you build your own you know how to fix it when you break something as well. 

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## waxico (Jan 21, 2008)

Is it a truism that length is better than beam for long tails?
And flat bottom over semi V?
To me a 12hp is way too much weight to put on a 1436, then stand to drive. Sounds tippy.


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## montrose trapper (Nov 14, 2006)

From everything I've read you want a long skinny hull for longtails also smooth bottoms with a round chine I've heard is hard to beat.. With my 16 on my 1436 I've had no problem with it being tippy. Even with two guys and a dog and way too many decoys it isnt scary. And I drive it pretty hard. If you wanna set up for a ride one time I'd be more than happy to let you come along and get some stick time. Well if we werent talking about mud motors that would all sound odd. But let me know. I just gotta replace my u-joint and she's ready to go

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## bigpapa8108 (Nov 1, 2012)

I'll tell you my buddy has a long shaft mud buddy and there is nothing like it, we have jumped some beaver dams with it as well as it handles great in shallow to no water so long as its mud. Sucks for sandy bottoms if it dubs as your trout or salmon river boat

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## Riley (Feb 18, 2009)

One reason I didn't use mine in the moot much last year is the bay is mostly sand and it eats up the prop at $200 a pop + with the extremely low water the birds just weren't there.The dikes on the island were not an issue, but I hear the ones at Shi. are much bigger and steeper, if I hunt solo and need to hop a **** I take my canoe with a 3hp evinrude weedless ,that motor only weighs 33lbs., next big purchase will be a Lewis winch for the mud rig.


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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

Do you get more "bite" with the long tails if your are in some firmer bottom...let's say lower water flooded fields at Shi?

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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

jonesy16 said:


> Do you get more "bite" with the long tails if your are in some firmer bottom...let's say lower water flooded fields at Shi?
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


I'm no expert in this Matt, but I think the issue is sand is much more abrasive than typical mud, so the boat tends to "stick" more and not slide over the bottom. Most of the popular areas of the bay are sand, so you have this problem. AND the sand, being so abrasive, eats the props up. JMO


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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

I knew sand has been an issue....I was curious if field mud like those you find at Shi or FP is tough pushin' or something with cut flooded corn. I guess I just need to get out and try one. 

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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

just ducky said:


> I'm no expert in this Matt, but I think the issue is sand is much more abrasive than typical mud, so the boat tends to "stick" more and not slide over the bottom. Most of the popular areas of the bay are sand, so you have this problem. AND the sand, being so abrasive, eats the props up. JMO


I would concur this is MI in general, when we get stuck, it's in sand, not mud.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

jonesy16 said:


> Do you get more "bite" with the long tails if your are in some firmer bottom...let's say lower water flooded fields at Shi?
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


No. If you can't submerge your prop completely in terrafirma, you actually perform like crap. This is why sand sucks. In muddy cornfields here, you are basically prop walk-in it in the mud....the huge advantage is the weedless effect more so than shallow water/mud running. Basically you Dont have to walk anymore.

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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

jonesy16 said:


> I knew sand has been an issue....I was curious if field mud like those you find at Shi or FP is tough pushin' or something with cut flooded corn. I guess I just need to get out and try one.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


This is all about boat motor combination...If your boat gets on plain quick shallow waters shouldn't be an issue but if you plow water you better get a running start in the shallows...


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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

Thanks, very helpful guys. I will be making the mud motor purchase this summer so I was just trying to narrow it down. I know I have asked you this before SK but it looks like I'm going with the backwater 13hp. I'm not overly concerned with speed, it does seem with the BW motor is on the heavier side for only 13hp though.


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## zx10r2004 (Sep 24, 2005)

SBE II said:


> This is all about boat motor combination...If your boat gets on plain quick shallow waters shouldn't be an issue but if you plow water you better get a running start in the shallows...


100% agreed. The Boat is a huge factor! 



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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

jonesy16 said:


> Thanks, very helpful guys. I will be making the mud motor purchase this summer so I was just trying to narrow it down. I know I have asked you this before SK but it looks like I'm going with the backwater 13hp. I'm not overly concerned with speed, it does seem with the BW motor is on the heavier side for only 13hp though.


Whatever you settle on Matt, see if they'll make you a better deal if you buy 2 instead of 1...I may be in the market as well


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

jonesy16 said:


> Thanks, very helpful guys. I will be making the mud motor purchase this summer so I was just trying to narrow it down. I know I have asked you this before SK but it looks like I'm going with the backwater 13hp. I'm not overly concerned with speed, it does seem with the BW motor is on the heavier side for only 13hp though.


I've ran a 16 mb and a 20hp Gd on that boat. Both did well but were a little heavy. A 13 should be a good fit IMO.

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## flighthunter (Nov 21, 2005)

I've got a 13 Honda mud buddy on a Lowe 1436. Planes 2 guys gear and dog. Open water I would guess 10 to 12 mph (whatever just over plane speed is). I've pushed 3 guys gear and dog through mud w about 2 inches of water. We got stuck a couple times but we made it through and in open water top speed was maybe 5 mph. I've never driven a surface drive but sitting down while driving would be nice although once you get used to standing its pretty balanced and safe and nice to see ahead in the marsh.


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## zx10r2004 (Sep 24, 2005)

flighthunter said:


> I've got a 13 Honda mud buddy on a Lowe 1436. Planes 2 guys gear and dog. Open water I would guess 10 to 12 mph (whatever just over plane speed is). I've pushed 3 guys gear and dog through mud w about 2 inches of water. We got stuck a couple times but we made it through and in open water top speed was maybe 5 mph. I've never driven a surface drive but sitting down while driving would be nice although once you get used to standing its pretty balanced and safe and nice to see ahead in the marsh.


Don't ever drive a surface drive unless you are ready to buy one. It's like night and day. 


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