# Lost a giant...not sure what it was...King?



## limpinglogan (Sep 23, 2009)

I was fishing the Grand River last night and had the biggest fish on that I have had on my line in my entire life. I am not sure what it was, which I think is the worst part about not catching this thing. 

I am leaning toward an early lost King that was 20+lbs but I am not sure...I will post the story and maybe you guys will have an opinion.

I was throwing a gold shad rap on a 7"7" medium heavy pole, Shimano 2500 Sedona reel with 20lb power pro on it. 

So far I had caught a 4.5" pike, 3.5lb walleye, a hand full of 2-3lb smallies and I had lost a pretty decent size fish that I couldn't get up off the bottom and it eventually shook my lure. 

Please keep in mind that none of these fish took any drag, I caught an 8lb pike on this same set-up a couple weeks ago and I have caught approx eight 8-12lb catfish so far this year on the same set-up while casting cranks in the Grand and all were pretty easily managed and landed.

So for the big fish...

I get what feels like a really good bite...this thing immediately takes off peeling line. In less then 5 seconds it took 20-30 yards of line of line and my drag is screaming...My thoughts go from trying to decide how to manage this thing to 'There is no way I am landing this'. Within seconds it was almost all the way across the river and running uncontrollably down river and I new I had no chance of landing it...I felt like I wasn't even feeling its full wrath..like as if...'if' my set-up had more backbone and I tried to test this fish it would really 'start' to fight back. After running for 30-40 seconds and peeling off a crap load of power pro off my spool it got off...my Rapala had two straight hooks when I reeled it back in.

During the short fight this fish jumped twice and stayed high in the water column...it made it across the river and a ways down river. It jumped very early right next to me but it came up with its side and back away from me and flopped backwards so all I saw was its underside...which was very white...(like a lot of fish). It looked huge...it was thick and had a big belly. 

There was a boat very close to me and the guy yelled, "was that a catfish?"

There was another boat 75 yards up river that pulled anchor and they came down to ask me what it was...they said it looked too big to be a steelhead and wondered if it was a King....they couldn't believe how big it was when they saw it jump.

A couple other random thoughts I have while trying to decide what it was before I ask you guys...what was this thing?

1. All the catfish I have caught stay on the bottom...they have never jumped like that.

2. I landed two skams last year in the same spot on a 6' 6" medium pole with 10lb test. One was 7lbs and one was 9lbs...there is no comparison in size...this thing was way bigger.

3. I have hooked and landed (accidently snagged in the tail) a couple big carp on a medium pole with 10lb line. They all stayed on the bottom...they fight hard due to their weight but I never had them take line like this fish did, jump like this...or feel like this one did.

4. The only thing I can compare this fish to is the Kings I have hooked...but this one honestly fought harder then any King I have had on.


I am leaning toward that it had to be a early lost King but I don't know for sure and it really bugs me.

Any opinions?


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## tannhd (Dec 3, 2010)

40 lb crappie.


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## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

Probly a skam...


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## fishintheblood (Mar 22, 2006)

I have had big cats jump many times fishing the grand! Water is way too hot for a King to be in the grand, IMO! We can only speculate!


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## limpinglogan (Sep 23, 2009)

> I have had big cats jump many times fishing the grand! Water is way too hot for a King to be in the grand, IMO! We can only speculate!


Maybe it was a big cat...If they will jump and stay up like that it probably was! It would probably make a lot more sense than a King. The biggest cat I ever cuaght was probably around 15lbs and I have cuaght a ton in the 12lb range....all on cranks too! All the ones I have cuaght stay down and make slower less crazy runs then this thing did. I honestly have no idea what a 20-30lber catfish will do...I just never imagined them jumping. 

If you guys tell me 20+lb Cat will jump and make a crazy run like that then I will start to lean toward it being a big cat.

I keep wondering about that fish this morning...I keep having a crazy psychotic narrative in my head...

"It was probably a big angery 15lb skam...the time of year makes more sense...it was jumping" -- two seconds go by -- "No it was just to big and thick...it took to much line...it ran too hard...it had to be a King" -- two more seconds -- "King in a dry hot July? it was probably a Skam" -- two more seconds -- "no no no...It took more line than any other fish you have ever had on...it straightened your hooks...it had to be a King." 

In the first few seconds of having it on I can remember my brain thinking I hooked a sturgen.


Then my next train of thought goes toward what do I need to do to land that fish next time? I need beefier gear? I thought I would have enough to handle most situations with a medium heavy pole and 20lb braid...yeah its not ideal for the biggest and the baddest but when worked correctly I thought I could get by...but obvousily not...I had no chance....it just ran and ran.


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## wartfroggy (Jan 25, 2007)

limpinglogan said:


> Then my next train of thought goes toward what do I need to do to land that fish next time? I need beefier gear? I thought I would have enough to handle most situations with a medium heavy pole and 20lb braid...yeah its not ideal for the biggest and the baddest but when worked correctly I thought I could get by...but obvousily not...I had no chance....it just ran and ran.


 You said it straightened out your hooks...so tell me what heavier line or a heavier rod would do differently, other than let you straighten them out faster? If anything, it sounds like you had too much pressure on the fish if your hooks all straightened out. Remember, there is more to worry about when fighting a fish than just your line breaking. Your rod/reel/line had nothing to do with it, they are probably fine to land a fish like that given more time and no snags. If you are going to change something, start with changing out the stock hooks on that rapala.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Skam: Water is way to warm for a king to get that far up the river and survive much less have that much fight in it.


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## limpinglogan (Sep 23, 2009)

deleted because of double post.


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## FishKilla419 (Feb 22, 2008)

A big fat skam over 15# can blow your mind. Maybe it had just ran up the river and hadn't been affected by the warm water yet.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## limpinglogan (Sep 23, 2009)

> You said it straightened out your hooks...so tell me what heavier line or a heavier rod would do differently, other than let you straighten them out faster? If anything, it sounds like you had too much pressure on the fish if your hooks all straightened out. Remember, there is more to worry about when fighting a fish than just your line breaking. Your rod/reel/line had nothing to do with it, they are probably fine to land a fish like that given more time and no snags. If you are going to change something, start with changing out the stock hooks on that rapala.


You are absolutly right. I remember looking down and seeing my drag going bananas and it was taking so much line so fast that I thought to myself "at this rate it will take all my line quick!"....I think after that thought I wanted to try giving it a little more resistance and see if I could try and atleast slow its run down a little...thats when the hooks bent. 

The hooks that bent were not stock hooks...this is an older 'lucky' shad rap that the hooks have been switched out a few times...I usually put high dollar owner hooks on when I swap out hooks but I don't think these ones where...they looked cheaper...so yes you are correct!

1. Better hooks
2. lots and lots of line so I can let them run longer if needed.


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## limpinglogan (Sep 23, 2009)

> A big fat skam over 15# can blow your mind. Maybe it had just ran up the river and hadn't been affected by the warm water yet.


lol mind blown!

OK so we are ruling out King...we are at big skam or catfish!


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## chris_kreiner (Sep 6, 2006)

Really depends on how far up river you were!! If you were relitively close to the mouth they have been catching Kings the last few days off the peir. I pulled in a 17lbs 11oz King in the big lake on Wednesday and that thing had some serious fight in him....He kept pulling line like crazy and there was nothing I could do to stop him....just had to hope he would stop before I ran out of line!!  

However as said by others a 15 lbs skam will have a fun run!!


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## JimP (Feb 8, 2002)

Too late now, but many on here will tell you that if you have a real screamer taking line...open the bail and take the pressure off.
They tend to slow down and stop after they think they're free.
Doesn't always work but more often than not it does...
Every situation and species is different.

A couple years back about this _same time of year_ I took a 17# Sheephead on 6# Seaguar in the BM.
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=343272&highlight=sheephead
It was on the other side of the river and against the current.
I released the pressure a couple times letting it go out then working it again after it stopped.
Finally it pooped out, just as I did, turned for the last time and came over to my side out of the current and into an eddy.

BTW, Sheephead haven't been mentioned, I don't know whether they jump or not, mine didn't.
But they do hit lures and have a lot of power against a drag and the current.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

With current Grand temps, if it was a scam, you'd have probably seen it floating belly up after it got off.


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## Lumberman (Sep 27, 2010)

Maybe a giant sheepshead. The other thing is the fish could have been snagged. A snagged fish can realty act crazy if it's in the tail or side.


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## limpinglogan (Sep 23, 2009)

Awsome tips on landing the big ones! Any tips on landing the big ones in those situations would be great! I HATE losing big fish!


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## tannhd (Dec 3, 2010)

9mm


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

I hooked a king on a storm clear orange crawfish crank this spring fishing for smallies. Late April, I let the crank catch the current and work a deep seam. It was a 10' diving crank. As it worked down I felt a fish just crush it and fought it for a few mins and tried to gain control. It jumped clear out of the water not 12' from me, next to a family fishing next to me who watched me fight it. He got down in the heavy current and took off down river and came off. 

Sounds like you hooked a king as well. With the cool water near the pier heads this past week, he must have thought it was time to run.

To the guy who said sheephead, Sheephead do not jump.


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## Steve_D (Mar 8, 2011)

Flathead? I've had some decent-sized cats attempting to pilot themselves. Maybe it was just one hell of a confused King?


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## wartfroggy (Jan 25, 2007)

Multispeciestamer said:


> To the guy who said sheephead, Sheephead do not jump.


I hope you guys are all taking notes. Based off of a couple of recent threads, I am putting together a table. 

Silver Carp - Will jump when scared
Salmon - Will jump
Steelhead - Will jump
Suckers - Some will jump, others won't
Shad - Small ones will, big ones have yet to be determined if they will or not.
Catfish - Some will jump, sometimes.
Lake Trout - DO jump (and fight very hard...for Bieber anyways)
Sheephead - DO NOT jump - Ever ever ever ever.


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

im guess it was a skam, probably a big one or foul hooked. in my experience i havent seen many legal hooked kings in the rivers jump out of the water with the exception or a few skips which were more or less yanked out. a king legally hooked will usually roll on the surface and then dig deep and hard. i do howe er see lots of kings jump every year by being hooked by snaggers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RAD FISH (Oct 17, 2006)

:: My guess Logan is that you got skamalambadingdonged. That water was cooold out front this week so could have been the King himself. I say skam


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## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

wartfroggy said:


> I hope you guys are all taking notes. Based off of a couple of recent threads, I am putting together a table.
> 
> Silver Carp - Will jump when scared
> Salmon - Will jump
> ...


Don't forget you can get steelhead on Musky lures!!!


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## wartfroggy (Jan 25, 2007)

Boozer said:


> Don't forget you can get steelhead on Musky lures!!!


 Thanks, forgot about that one. That was a while ago, but now you got the wheels turning for me, and I have got a few more to add. It will likely take a while to finish this list, as there is alot of top secret info we don't know about yet. 



Steelhead won't bite if it is cold out. 
Brown Trout taste like gobies and no right minded angler would eat one
Uncured coho spawn is no good for steelhead


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## jpmarko (Feb 26, 2010)

Last July I was fishing the Joe for skams in the early morning. I remember the river water being particularly warm that day. Around 9:30 or 10:00am I checked the water temp with my thermometer, it read about 75 or 76 degrees. I had had a rip or two on my spinners but not much more. A few people fishing close by left because the water was "too warm." 

Anyway, a little after that a skam slams my spinner not 15 ft from me. It does a couple cartwheels and miraculously stays hooked. Then quicker than you can blink an eye it 25 or so yards of 20# power pro and then turned to go straight up river into the turbines (I was fishing the dam). It pulled hard and strong. Quite impressive for a 12 lbd fish in bathwater. Of course, as luck would have it, once I got him close the hook popped out of his mouth and I lost him. 

I've fought a handful of skams in the summers. Some fight harder than others. This one gave me a memorable fight. Sometimes they don't fight so well cuz of the warm water. But sometimes they do. Go figure.

Likely a skam. But who knows.


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## tannhd (Dec 3, 2010)

Foul hooked skam. Poop lol


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## riverbob (Jan 11, 2011)

:lol:


jpmarko said:


> it pulled hard and strong. Quite impressive for a 12 lbd fish in bathwater. Of course, as luck would have it, once I got him close the hook popped out of his mouth and I lost him..................so if u lost it, how do u know what it weight............ o I see, u counted the schales on his back....:lol::lol::lol:


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## tsr770 (Mar 3, 2010)

Id say skam or big cat too, like others I've never had a mouth hooked king do more than make the water explode and maybe show it's tail... It's always wham then down with a king for me.


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## jpmarko (Feb 26, 2010)

riverbob said:


> :lol:
> 
> 
> jpmarko said:
> ...


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## LuckyChucky (Mar 28, 2005)

obviously it was a very large, angry ,ready to breed asian carp,right Multi?


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## wehuntwefish (Dec 30, 2010)

tannhd said:


> 9mm


:lol:


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## slowpaya (Oct 23, 2011)

gotta put my 2 cents in logan,somebody said kings dont jump,we were coming back from up north(manistee trout fishing) about 20 years ago and stopped at 6th str,it was late august,we hit the quarry,5 of us with spinners,t shirts shorts and kings,we were slammin em,joe kept yelling !make em jump! you could just reef on those spinners and theyd come flying outta the water,im leaning toward skam or summer/early run king,i think youve fished eno to know if it was andromonous or not,residents dont move like that,guaranteed you can make fair hooked kings jump with 17 lb


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## llpof (Mar 31, 2012)

Some of the fish taken at GH last week already had some color. I'm sure a few warm water runners drifted up.


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## jrv (Nov 11, 2008)

Whether king or skam I think it may have been foul hooked. I've proper hooked some nice steelhead/salmon on some cheap flies that I was worried the hook was going to straighten out, but it didn't. I've also foul hooked some on quality hooks and the hook tends to straighten a lot easier.


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## slowpaya (Oct 23, 2011)

im with jrv


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## jandj (Dec 26, 2010)




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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

slowpaya said:


> im with jrv


X2

When you have a fish hooked in the mouth, you can generally turn it by pulling hard enough. If it is hooked elsewhere, you can't turn its head, and that makes it a LOT more difficult to control. A good example is all of the "fishermen" who snag Kings at Tippy dam in the fall. One night a buddy and I stood in our respective spots, between the coffer and the boat launch, and we each landed probably 15 fair-hooked Kings. And we never had to leave our spots to land a single fish. Meanwhile there was a steady stream of others who kept "coming down" with foul-hooked fish, all night long. Funny, most of the "others" lost their fish eventually. I don't remember losing a single fish; although I did destroy a few hooks removing them from the hard inside of the Salmon's mouths.


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## limpinglogan (Sep 23, 2009)

It could have been a foul hook fish...I have no idea. 

I didn't really think it was at first because I don't usually snag to many fish with shad raps...but I guess you never know and I don't have any thing to tell me I 'didn't' snag it...In fact the crazy run it took points in that direction.

I am kinda leaning toward a foul hooked fish just because it was running sooooo much harder than any skam or king or cat I have ever hooked.


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## slowpaya (Oct 23, 2011)

maybe u should fish tippy more


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

It's hard to say without being there, but all things being equal I'd speculate it being a very big catfish. I've had some that jumped when hooked or made a reasonable attempt at it. 

Could it have been a king or skam? Sure, hell it could've been a sturgeon for all we know. BUT, using basic common sense based on past history, any king or skam gasping around in a 80+ degree river during a drought just isn't going to be that active, let alone whup your a** in the manner described. They're just not, period. Kings turning dark out in the big lake in July is a common thing--doesn't mean they're anywhere near ready to come up river. I remember catching a bronze colored king at the end of June once in 200' of water. 

Just guessing here...take it exactly as that, but with the water the way it is, I'd say the chances of it being a catfish are far, far, far greater than it being a king or skam. 

Look at the bright side though--at least it gave us something to talk about other than the fact that our rivers are about to be reclassified as ditches. :lol:


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