# Short term rental and electric cars



## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Night Moves said:


> Maybe they are 20 amp. Maybe they are running multiple chargers on multiple outlets. Who knows. An EV ower that drives from down state to Munising, then runs around the UP every day, then drives home is going to be charging a lot.


15amp or 20 amp the cost is the same. It only lowers the charge time. On average a car is going to roll in on 50% charge. Some will be almost 0 some will be almost full. If you assume the first charge of their stay is $5.50 the rest of their charges are likely less than that. Charging them $10 per day is profiting off them because they chose an alternative energy car. I can see why people would ignore them.....or possibly be offended. 

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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Is there really so much competition in your area to the point of not being able to raise your rate? Or is it a bare-bone property with limited appeal? (you did mention no air)


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Night Moves said:


> You could also take a meter reading before and after each rental and charge them extra for the electricity they use during their stay or perhaps only charge them if they exceed a certain limit.


I rent Air BnB all the time. When I see things like extra charge for EV or abnormal instructions for laundry/cleanup etc I avoid them. It is a red flag for being an overbearing host who is high strung. Not saying that about this host but that is how would read a listing.

I dont own an EV but I do take a boat alot. I charge my 4 boat batteries nightly with a single plug in battery charger. I rent homes or cabins because I like the added security of parking in a driveway and ability to use electricity vs a hotel where I have to leave my boat in a lot and not place to charge. If I see the host fretting over something as trivial as using a single outlet overnight i am skipping that location and looking for something more accommodating....i may pay a fare amount extra to do so. I go on vacation to enjoy myself not worry about hassles over trivial things. 



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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

tdejong302 said:


> Not a trolling tread. Just looking for some opinions and advice. My airbnb ad does say extra charge for ev vehicles or diesels who plug in. It costs us around $10 a day. Multiply that by 7-10 days a month and our bill is double. That is why I'm looking for input. IMO its my job or my rentals to provide gas (or electricity) for people to travel 300-400 miles to get here.


Have you considered looking into adding a charging station to your property that you can charge the general public? I would think that would actually be a draw to your business. You might even make money on customers who don't stay with you. I would think EV owners would seek you out as a place to stay. You might even get some tax breaks. 

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## Night Moves (Jan 28, 2021)

DirtySteve said:


> Have you considered looking into adding a charging station to your property that you can charge the general public? I would think that would actually be a draw to your business. You might even make money on customers who don't stay with you. I would think EV owners would seek you out as a place to stay. You might even get some tax breaks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S901U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


The EV people that I know would still opt for free charging even if a convenient fast, alternative was presented for a nominal fee. Most seem to feel entitled.


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## jjlrrw (May 1, 2006)

DirtySteve said:


> Most new electric cars are programmed to charge at off peak hrs to save on electric bill already. The software is built in from the factory.
> Sent from my SM-S901U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


I thought it was the installed charging stations (ability to change much faster than 120V outlet) that could be programmed to only charge during off peak hours, if the car decided to only charge during off peak hrs plugging into 120V you would only see a 4 - 5 hours of charge time a night or 15 - 20 miles of driving.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Night Moves said:


> The EV people that I know would still opt for free charging even if a convenient fast, alternative was presented for a nominal fee. Most seem to feel entitled.


Not if your EV is truly low on battery. They know how long it takes on a single outlet charge. Range anxiety is a real thing amongst EV owners and it takes a couple years for some to get over it. 

If their EV is not very low the free use of a 110 outlet is little cost as they wont be charging long. 

The ev owners I know are some the the nicest genuine people I have met. They also have money and don't fret over a couple bucks to charge their car. Much like a guy who owns and F350 diesel and a giant 5th wheel toy hauler full of side by sides They are happy to pay for their lifestyle and can typically afford it.

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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

jjlrrw said:


> I thought it was the installed charging stations (ability to change much faster than 120V outlet) that could be programmed to only charge during off peak hours, if the car decided to only charge during off peak hrs plugging into 120V you would only see a 4 - 5 hours of charge time a night or 15 - 20 miles of driving.


I have read that you can program the car either way with the app. Just tried to message my coworker that has a tesla and ask. He is on vacation....

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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

In the UP! LOL


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## jjlrrw (May 1, 2006)

DirtySteve said:


> I have read that you can program the car either way with the app. Just tried to message my coworker that has a tesla and ask. He is on vacation....
> 
> Sent from my SM-S901U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


I don't own one either but it makes sense you could also program the car to only charge off peak hours, but while traveling I think you would need to disable that or you may be sitting at a charging stating a long time waiting for off peak hours.


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## jjlrrw (May 1, 2006)

tdejong302 said:


> I have a couple short term rentals and my electric bill explodes in the summer. I have no a.c. and have seen quite a few electric cars plugging in while at my cabins. I have posted on our airbnb that electric cars are required to pay an additional $10 a day to cover charging charges. However noone follows it and its hard to keep an eye on. I plan on getting rid of my exterior outlets to help address this but I think it will still be abused. Any suggestions on how to address this. thx.


Maybe look into a lower current GFI outlet like 5A for your outside outlets or if they are on a dedicated breaker change it out to a lower current rating.

Level 1 charging (standard 120V) will draw between 12A and 16A and only adding 4 - 5 miles of range per hour. Similar to having a space heater or window AC unit plugged in.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

jjlrrw said:


> Maybe look into a lower current GFI outlet like 5A for your outside outlets or if they are on a dedicated breaker change it out to a lower current rating.
> 
> Level 1 charging (standard 120V) will draw between 12A and 16A and only adding 4 - 5 miles of range per hour. Similar to having a space heater or window AC unit plugged in.
> 
> View attachment 852423


According to that graph a level 1 charger is about 1/3-1/2the draw of an air conditioner. Which is about right. They dont draw much. 

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## onlinebiker (Sep 19, 2019)

DirtySteve said:


> I think you are failing to understand how much electricity an EV really uses. It isnt much. If a renter sees the $10 per day charge for an EV he knows he is being raped because he cant get $10 a day electricity out of that outlet. He is being charged more than a tesla supercharger rate without the service. I would ignore the fee too.
> 
> Charging for a single outlet use is sorta ridiculous. It would be like renting a fully furnished house to someone and adding fees to use the shower or stove. Now if the owner put in expensive equipment to charge vehicles at a faster rate and had some real expenses to do so I could see it. He would probably gain more renters for doing so.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S901U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


I think you are making some assumptions...

I have a VERY good idea of what it takes to charge and run an EV. $10 a day is on the extreme high side of what it would cost to charge a nearly depleted EV battery. $5 to $6 is probably more realistic.

The uninformed like to say their EV charger is an equivalent draw as a window mount AC unit.

Sure - at AC startup. But continously. 

So way better than double.

......

Charge rates aside - it' s still a sleazeball tactic --- taking more than agreed... If you can afford a $50,000 EV - you can damned well pay for the juice you use. 

Driving an EV doesn' t make you a good person.

Being honest does.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Shoeman said:


> Is there really so much competition in your area to the point of not being able to raise your rate? Or is it a bare-bone property with limited appeal? (you did mention no air)


Was pretty easy to find the listing(s). Look like decent places to stay to me. And not unreasonably overpriced.


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## jjlrrw (May 1, 2006)

DirtySteve said:


> According to that graph a level 1 charger is about 1/3-1/2the draw of an air conditioner. Which is about right. They dont draw much.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S901U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


The graph may be a bit miss-leading the AC and the other three above are 240V systems, it is showing ~1600 W for a level 1 charger or about 13A draw, I think we pay on average after figuring in taxes and fees about $0.16 per kWh for electricity in Michigan so charging a 100kWh battery would cost $16.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

jjlrrw said:


> The graph may be a bit miss-leading the AC and the other three above are 240V systems, it is showing ~1600 W for a level 1 charger or about 13A draw, I think we pay on average after figuring in taxes and fees about $0.16 per kWh for electricity in Michigan so charging a 100kWh battery would cost $16.


That wouldnt be realistic for a renter to have a dead battery when he arrives. But if he had it towed there and plugged it in under those parameters it would take over 60hrs continuous charging to charge the vehicle. Nobody is showing up for a weekend and plugging in and charging for 3 straight days and going home without leaving the cabin. That is what it would take to run the owners bill up to $16. 

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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

One thing I dont get about the OP's issue. If this is an Air BnB why is he having an issue collecting a stated fee? I have rented many places on Air BnB. The fees are all charged through the site. They handle all the charges. When there is a pet fee and i take my bird dogs the owner charges me through the site. I dont have a say in the matter. The only scenario i ever recall paying seperately was a place i rented in Kansas on a bird hunting trip. It was in the middle of nowhere. They had a chest freezer in the garage with a supply of bagged ice. It asked you to leave a few bucks cash on the counter if you used any bagged ice which was a really nice convenience. Outside of that I
I havent seen an honor system for charges thru airbnb. I am betting most EV customers assume they will be charged to their card. I would be leary of seperate charges. I believe the airbnb policy warns against charges outside the app.

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## tdejong302 (Nov 28, 2004)

DirtySteve said:


> One thing I dont get about the OP's issue. If this is an Air BnB why is he having an issue collecting a stated fee? I have rented many places on Air BnB. The fees are all charged through the site. They handle all the charges. When there is a pet fee and i take my bird dogs the owner charges me through the site. I dont have a say in the matter. The only scenario i ever recall paying seperately was a place i rented in Kansas on a bird hunting trip. It was in the middle of nowhere. They had a chest freezer in the garage with a supply of bagged ice. It asked you to leave a few bucks cash on the counter if you used any bagged ice which was a really nice convenience. Outside of that I
> I havent seen an honor system for charges thru airbnb. I am betting most EV customers assume they will be charged to their card. I would be leary of seperate charges. I believe the airbnb policy warns against charges outside the app.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S901U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Air bnb does not have a automated system for paying for ev's or diesels. So we try and do the honor system however its not working. Why should I pay 70 to 100 a stay because someone doesn't want to pay for gas. Well they don't want to pay for their electricity usage either. There are alot of times we accept a booking and then a brother or cousin wants to come w/ a dog. We just ask for the $25 fee to be paid upon departure. That goes directly to the cleaning crew because pets can cause alot more cleaning time. However families appreciate bringing their pet. So they do pay the fee before they depart. We do have camera's and I had two last month that had cars plugged in but chose not to honor our system. The total stay was 12 days. Which in the end made our bill go from $90 to almost $200. I'm not against ev's or diesels. I just wish they would honor their committment. Maybe its an education thing on this end. I will label the outlets that we charge $10 a day for plugging in. See if that helps. Most families read our entire ad so they know what our rentals include and don't have. So the ev charges are there in plain sight.


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## Josh R (Dec 4, 2010)

Since you see them plugging in shouldn't you be able to contact them via phone or email and tell them you expect them to pay an additional fee? Every air bnb we stay at we either get a cell number to the owner or an email address


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Josh R said:


> Since you see them plugging in shouldn't you be able to contact them via phone or email and tell them you expect them to pay an additional fee? Every air bnb we stay at we either get a cell number to the owner or an email address


You'd think. But are some of them going to downgrade their review because you caught them?


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

tdejong302 said:


> Air bnb does not have a automated system for paying for ev's or diesels. So we try and do the honor system however its not working. Why should I pay 70 to 100 a stay because someone doesn't want to pay for gas. Well they don't want to pay for their electricity usage either. There are alot of times we accept a booking and then a brother or cousin wants to come w/ a dog. We just ask for the $25 fee to be paid upon departure. That goes directly to the cleaning crew because pets can cause alot more cleaning time. However families appreciate bringing their pet. So they do pay the fee before they depart. We do have camera's and I had two last month that had cars plugged in but chose not to honor our system. The total stay was 12 days. Which in the end made our bill go from $90 to almost $200. I'm not against ev's or diesels. I just wish they would honor their committment. Maybe its an education thing on this end. I will label the outlets that we charge $10 a day for plugging in. See if that helps. Most families read our entire ad so they know what our rentals include and don't have. So the ev charges are there in plain sight.


Labeling is a great idea. Then if you see they used it and don't pay, contact them. They may "Ghost" you but at least a few might pay it.


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## ekbelt3 (Jul 22, 2008)

EV's aren't going away any time soon. Install a 220 plug outside and market the place that it has the ability to charge EVs! And don't forget to increase the rates for this new amenity and it's monthly costs!


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

@tdejong302 when you mention in the listing that it is $10 to plug in, how is the renter expected to follow through? Contact you and tell you?

Maybe the label on the outlet and a reference sheet inside the cottage with how to go about paying the extra fee. Maybe it's simple and intuitive, I don't know... I have only rented a couple times and it's been a while.


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## Wild Earth (Nov 8, 2019)

No AC...but just out of curiosity are you running a dehumidifier or well or other pump hard? Also as another mentioned excessive hot water usage (if it's electric) will add a lot.

Up until vaccine mandates I spent the last 11 years doing home energy assessments for a utility. I have seen a lot of high bills and figured out many of culprits through the years. It's very possible it's the EVs, but don't close your mind to other possibilities. Hope you get it figured out, and as many have said I would probably raise rates $5-10 across the board to help cover the extra costs. Obviously your choice, but you sound like you're looking for opinions.


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## BumpRacerX (Dec 31, 2009)

Lucky Dog said:


> I'd raise the rates 10 - 20 bucks a nite and install a 220 volt fast charge plug for the guests to use.


This is the correct answer. I have a friend with a few vacation rentals and this is what he did. Turned it into a win/win situation and said he's pretty sure it actually increased the amount of renters at his properties.


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## alex-v (Mar 24, 2005)

ekbelt3 said:


> EV's aren't going away any time soon. Install a 220 plug outside and market the place that it has the ability to charge EVs! And don't forget to increase the rates for this new amenity and it's monthly costs!


I was reading through the thread and thought the same sort of thing. If EV owners tend to be better renters as some have mentioned then it makes sense to cater to them without even saying that they are being catered to.

If bookings are mostly or entirely better renters then it reduces the odds of getting the few rowdies who will create the premature wear and tear that adds expenses.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

sureshot006 said:


> @tdejong302 when you mention in the listing that it is $10 to plug in, how is the renter expected to follow through? Contact you and tell you?
> 
> Maybe the label on the outlet and a reference sheet inside the cottage with how to go about paying the extra fee. Maybe it's simple and intuitive, I don't know... I have only rented a couple times and it's been a while.


This is what I am wondering. When I rent AirBnB i expect all charges to be on my credit card. Like the cleaning fee for a pet. I would not expect to pay separately. I am thinking this is likely the case with his renters.

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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

DirtySteve said:


> This is what I am wondering. When I rent AirBnB i expect all charges to be on my credit card. Like the cleaning fee for a pet. I would not expect to pay separately. I am thinking this is likely the case with his renters.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S901U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Yep.

I'd not likely remember to toss a tip on the table for the charging when leaving. A lock box to put charging money in might work?

It needs to be made easy or it won't be done.


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## shanny28757 (Feb 11, 2006)

Why not lean into it?

install an ev charger, advertise it in your listing, and increase the nightly rate by $xxx.

if you’re truly getting that many renters with EV’s that it’s enough to increase your bill you might want to just target those folks. My guess is they’ll be receptive to the upgrades and not notice the small fee increase.


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## Spade (Feb 20, 2007)

I don't know about rentals, but why not just raise your rate by whatever amount, and charge everyone the same. That would cover all your electric bills. As long as you're in line with other people who rent charge. Is it necessary to put it in the contract that you charge more for charging an E.V.?


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## tdejong302 (Nov 28, 2004)

Spade said:


> I don't know about rentals, but why not just raise your rate by whatever amount, and charge everyone the same. That would cover all your electric bills. As long as you're in line with other people who rent charge. Is it necessary to put it in the contract that you charge more for charging an E.V.?


I could charge more to everyone but why should everyone bear the brunt of someone choosing to drive an electric car.


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## Spade (Feb 20, 2007)

tdejong302 said:


> I could charge more to everyone but why should everyone bear the brunt of someone choosing to drive an electric car.


Because you don't really know if your high electric bill is caused by someone driving an E.V. or someone using a portable air conditioner, or other appliances. Heck your customers may just be leaving every light on in the house. I don't know how much you would have to charge to break even, but I would not think it would increase your price per stay by that much.
Because I'm not a renter/owner, I don't know 1st hand what is causing the increase in the electric bill, so I can only give you a solution.


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## MossyHorns (Apr 14, 2011)

Those of you that don't think this is a big deal, would your employer allow you to run an extension cord to the parking lot to charge your EV on their dime?


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