# Banning of felt soled waders?



## quack head

Boozer said:


> My problem with this whole ordeal is the fact 90% of anglers would never be a risk to spreading anything.
> 
> The fact of the matter is these diseases have spread from guys who have the cash to travel to far away lands and fish, then come back home and go fishing on local waters before their felt has even had a chance to dry out.
> 
> Anything can spread these diseases, even though felt is the largest risk, these diseases/species can survive on a multitude of fabrics.
> 
> I would think it would be better to teach anglers how to properly disinfect their gear so they don't spread any diseases than to ban felt.
> 
> Just my thoughts...


Wyoming, North Platt At Alcove. $650. Travle, food, booze, liecens. That included The Big Horn in Montana And a number of tribs. You do not need to be rich to destroy a fishery. Just irresponsible.

But I do agree there can be many avenues that conribute to the spread of diesease. But we need to do our part to eliminate the ones we can.


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## Boozer

quack head said:


> Wyoming, North Platt At Alcove. $650. Travle, food, booze, liecens. That included The Big Horn in Montana And a number of tribs. You do not need to be rich to destroy a fishery. Just irresponsible.
> 
> But I do agree there can be many avenues that conribute to the spread of diesease. But we need to do our part to eliminate the ones we can.


How do you think it reached any of those rivers originally?

It did not exist there all along, and irresponsible is likely only half of it, my guess is the fact people were not educated about it was more likely the issue.

The bottom line is, banning felt is like putting a band aid on a bullet wound, people need to be educated in order to actually stop further spread of various diseases. I can be in Colorado one day with rubber soled boots and hit up Wyoming the next and the laces on my boots could transport the same diseases just as felt would.

If people are educated, felt would not be an issue. In Canada they have stream side decontaminating stations for your wading boots, that isn't possible everywhere, but by making such products readily available and educating the public, well certainly would go a long way...

I guess what I am getting at is, banning felt in my opinion has zero to do with stopping the spread of diseases and everything to do with marketing of more expensive boots and forcing so many to buy new boots.


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## dialed-in

Boozer said:


> How do you think it reached any of those rivers originally?
> 
> It did not exist there all along, and irresponsible is likely only half of it, my guess is the fact people were not educated about it was more likely the issue.
> 
> The bottom line is, banning felt is like putting a band aid on a bullet wound, people need to be educated in order to actually stop further spread of various diseases. I can be in Colorado one day with rubber soled boots and hit up Wyoming the next and the laces on my boots could transport the same diseases just as felt would.
> 
> If people are educated, felt would not be an issue. In Canada they have stream side decontaminating stations for your wading boots, that isn't possible everywhere, but by making such products readily available and educating the public, well certainly would go a long way...
> 
> I guess what I am getting at is, banning felt in my opinion has zero to do with stopping the spread of diseases and everything to do with marketing of more expensive boots and forcing so many to buy new boots.


I agree 100%! this is what i am getting at.


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## quack head

http://www.tu.org/whirling-disease


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## quack head

http://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/microbes/whirling.shtml


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## Fishndude

I can appreciate the sentiment to educate anglers, so they do not spread disease and invasive species. However, as in the rest of life, it is not practical or feasible to educate everyone. It just isn't possible. For one thing, there literally are people who revel in being ignorant. For another, what medium would you use to educate EVERYONE? Computers? A lot of anglers do not use computers. Television? Who is going to pay for something that doesn't generate any revenue on TV? Laws get talked about, just like this one is being discussed. The word spreads, and a few violators will be ticketed. And hopefully it thwarts the further spread of invasives and diseases. I'll be treating my felt soles after use from now on. I would hate to be The Guy who transferred Zebra Mussels to The Holy Water. :SHOCKED:


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## Boozer

Fishndude said:


> I can appreciate the sentiment to educate anglers, so they do not spread disease and invasive species. However, as in the rest of life, it is not practical or feasible to educate everyone. It just isn't possible. For one thing, there literally are people who revel in being ignorant. For another, what medium would you use to educate EVERYONE? Computers? A lot of anglers do not use computers. Television? Who is going to pay for something that doesn't generate any revenue on TV? Laws get talked about, just like this one is being discussed. The word spreads, and a few violators will be ticketed. And hopefully it thwarts the further spread of invasives and diseases. I'll be treating my felt soles after use from now on. I would hate to be The Guy who transferred Zebra Mussels to The Holy Water. :SHOCKED:


So your frame of mind is that it's OK to ban felt even though it will not solve the problem, simply because it MAY make more people aware of the issues?

There is no need to have TV commercials, simply give out a small flyer explaining the issues with each fishing license purchase. You will always have those who don't follow the rules and it only takes one person to spread the disease...


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## Jackster1

Educate everyone? The felt sole ban has been talked about for 3-4 years already yet people in this thread never heard of it. It would be a real challenge to educate everyone before some of this stuff was spread from stream to stream.
The big deal now is rock snot (didymo) This is some nasty crap that you really don't want in your streams. We have it in one of the finest tailwaters in the country in TN and it ain't pretty. Worse yet is trying to wade in it. Think grease covered bowling balls under water. It also plays heck with the aquatic life that the fish eat.
I agree to a point about some of this stuff traveling in shoe laces and such and I sometimes think it's a great marketing scheme by boot manufacturers but these species gets jammed into the microscopic nooks and crannys in felt. One way to kill this stuff is to dry out your boots completely before hopping from river to river but drying out felt is not a quick process. Good guides who fish different rivers have several pairs of boots and can let them dry out before using them again. The fact they get them far cheaper than most because, if they have half a brain, thay are on manufacturers guide programs.
Better safe than sorry. Unlike global warnings and the like, this stuff is for real and can be seen and felt in several rivers in the U.S.
Here's a few links of what rock snot is like...

Look at the video here: 
http://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/aquatics/didymo.shtml

and the pics here:
http://www.google.com/search?q=didy...8H8u3tgfx5rWtDw&ved=0CDQQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=638


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## Boozer

I don't deny that felt is a threat, but by simply mixing up a bleach/water mixture and dipping your boots in them solves all the issues and it is 100% effective. You still get the benefits that felt gives and can keep from spreading disease.

What I am getting at is simple, don't read into it. It is being marketed that felt is the ONLY issue and by purchasing boots without felt, you have nothing to worry about and that simply is NOT true.


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## quack head

Boozer said:


> I don't deny that felt is a threat, but by simply mixing up a bleach/water mixture and dipping your boots in them solves all the issues and it is 100% effective. You still get the benefits that felt gives and can keep from spreading disease.
> 
> What I am getting at is simple, don't read into it. It is being marketed that felt is the ONLY issue and by purchasing boots without felt, you have nothing to worry about and that simply is NOT true.


I guess what I am getting at is, banning felt in my opinion has zero to do with stopping the spread of diseases and everything to do with marketing of more expensive boots and forcing so many to buy new boots.[/QUOTE]

If you're worried about spending money on "more expensive boots" You won't need to worry about it. A bleach solution on your felted boots will have you spending more money to replace them due to premature wear from the bleach eating aprt the material.


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## Boozer

quack head said:


> I guess what I am getting at is, banning felt in my opinion has zero to do with stopping the spread of diseases and everything to do with marketing of more expensive boots and forcing so many to buy new boots.


If you're worried about spending money on "more expensive boots" You won't need to worry about it. A bleach solution on your felted boots will have you spending more money to replace them due to premature wear from the bleach eating aprt the material.[/quote]

I have never once heard of this being the case and know many people who fish in Canada where it is common practice...

It is a very small amount of bleach used...

I have to buy a new pair of wading boots every year anyway...

It's the principle, not the money...


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## quack head

Simms: Headwaters Boot: 
Ultra-lightweight, highly durable boot at a great price with a Aquastealth sole for the ultimate in wet traction and durability for back-country fishing. 

$99.00 


Boozer, i'm not sure if there are less expensive boots of this type but it is a start. For years I bought cheap boots half this price and usually got a couple of yaers out of them. As of now I am happy with my free stones. I'll find out soon enough if they as good as the reports I have read on them. I will say this though they are the most comfortable boot I have owned in 20 years.


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## Boozer

quack head said:


> Simms: Headwaters Boot:
> Ultra-lightweight, highly durable boot at a great price with a Aquastealth sole for the ultimate in wet traction and durability for back-country fishing.
> 
> $99.00
> 
> 
> Boozer, i'm not sure if there are less expensive boots of this type but it is a start. For years I bought cheap boots half this price and usually got a couple of yaers out of them. As of now I am happy with my free stones. I'll find out soon enough if they as good as the reports I have read on them. I will say this though they are the most comfortable boot I have owned in 20 years.


I had the best luck with Chota STL Plus wading boots, however, I don't really wear felt anymore because I never felt I needed it and I do like "actually love" the vibram soles because they don't drag so much muck or mud in the boat. I don't fish rivers with large slippery rocks so felt is not mandatory.

I don't have an issue with newer technologies replacing felt, what I have an issue with is the false sense of security that one cannot spread these diseases as long as they don't have felt boots. It may not be intentional, but it sure comes off that way with these companies marketing tactics.

Read the marketing being used by the companies who produce these newer wading boots, can you find a single one that mentions the fact that not using felt still doesn't solve all of the issues?


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## quack head

I don't have an issue with newer technologies replacing felt, what I have an issue with is the false sense of security that one cannot spread these diseases as long as they don't have felt boots. It may not be intentional, but it sure comes off that way with these companies marketing tactics.

Well, I cannot speak for other's. But I never thought that vibram soles were the end all be all to stop the spread of any invasive in waterways. I truly hope that people are not getting the idea that it is.


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## Boozer

quack head said:


> I don't have an issue with newer technologies replacing felt, what I have an issue with is the false sense of security that one cannot spread these diseases as long as they don't have felt boots. It may not be intentional, but it sure comes off that way with these companies marketing tactics.
> 
> Well, I cannot speak for other's. But I never thought that vibram soles were the end all be all to stop the spread of any invasive in waterways. I truly hope that people are not getting the idea that it is.


I did some looking around online...

It appears many companies have changed their wording in regards to the marketing of these types of wading boots as every one of them now seems to have some type of disclaimer that felt is not the only thing that can transport these diseases. When these types of boots originally came out, that was certainly not the approach many took...

I know guides out West who claim that they cannot use anything but felt in certain rivers as simply put it's the only thing that gives them enough traction, but they are obviously aware enough to treat their boots before entering different watersheds, unfortunately I am not out there to experience the same issues, still stuck in Michigan, for now...


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## dialed-in

I am with Boozer on this one. I love my felt sole boots and see no reason to stop wearing them if I take the normal precautions. The material your boots are made from are also a risk, along with the neoprene from your stockingfoots. No need to read into it, I just feel its ultimately up to the fisherman.


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## Jackster1

Non-absorbent items

*Detergent* -- soak or spray all surfaces for at least one minute in 5% dishwashing detergent or (2 cups (16 oz.) or 500mls with water added to make 2.5 gal. or 10 litres); OR
*Bleach* -- soak or spray all surfaces for at least one minute in 2% household bleach (1 cup (8 oz.) or 200mls with water added to make 3 gal. or 10 litres); OR
*Hot water* -- soak for at least one minute in very hot water kept above 140° F (60° C) (hotter than most tap water) or for at least 20 minutes in hot water kept above 113° F (45° C) (uncomfortable to touch).
Absorbent items -- require longer soaking times to allow thorough saturation. For example,* felt-soled waders require:*

*Hot water* -- soak for at least 40 minutes in hot water kept above 113° F (45° C) ; OR
*Hot water plus detergent* -- soak for 30 minutes in hot water kept above 113° F (45° C) containing 5% dishwashing detergent; OR
*Freezing any item* until solid will also kill didymo.


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## Boozer

Jackster1 said:


> Non-absorbent items
> 
> *Detergent* -- soak or spray all surfaces for at least one minute in 5% dishwashing detergent or (2 cups (16 oz.) or 500mls with water added to make 2.5 gal. or 10 litres); OR
> *Bleach* -- soak or spray all surfaces for at least one minute in 2% household bleach (1 cup (8 oz.) or 200mls with water added to make 3 gal. or 10 litres); OR
> *Hot water* -- soak for at least one minute in very hot water kept above 140° F (60° C) (hotter than most tap water) or for at least 20 minutes in hot water kept above 113° F (45° C) (uncomfortable to touch).
> Absorbent items -- require longer soaking times to allow thorough saturation. For example,* felt-soled waders require:*
> 
> *Hot water* -- soak for at least 40 minutes in hot water kept above 113° F (45° C) ; OR
> *Hot water plus detergent* -- soak for 30 minutes in hot water kept above 113° F (45° C) containing 5% dishwashing detergent; OR
> *Freezing any item* until solid will also kill didymo.


Interesting...

Boot laces would also fall into that absorbent items listing. The freezing deal is pretty cool, throw your boots in a trash bag and toss em in the freezer over-night...


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## Boozer

Just one last thing that came to mind...

Since absorbent materials are essentially the main cause of spreading these diseases because they take longer to totally dry out, it would only make sense that the majority of the boot itself is more than capable of spreading the disease, just as much as the sole...

So why bother doing away with felt at all then, when the boot needs to be treated or frozen no matter what?


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## REG

Jackster1 said:


> Non-absorbent items
> 
> *Detergent* -- soak or spray all surfaces for at least one minute in 5% dishwashing detergent or (2 cups (16 oz.) or 500mls with water added to make 2.5 gal. or 10 litres); OR
> *Bleach* -- soak or spray all surfaces for at least one minute in 2% household bleach (1 cup (8 oz.) or 200mls with water added to make 3 gal. or 10 litres); OR
> *Hot water* -- soak for at least one minute in very hot water kept above 140° F (60° C) (hotter than most tap water) or for at least 20 minutes in hot water kept above 113° F (45° C) (uncomfortable to touch).
> Absorbent items -- require longer soaking times to allow thorough saturation. For example,* felt-soled waders require:*
> 
> *Hot water* -- soak for at least 40 minutes in hot water kept above 113° F (45° C) ; OR
> *Hot water plus detergent* -- soak for 30 minutes in hot water kept above 113° F (45° C) containing 5% dishwashing detergent; OR
> *Freezing any item* until solid will also kill didymo.


Excellent info! Is this protocol just for Didymo, or is it good for everything else (Mud Snails, Whirling, etc)?


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