# New hunting lab



## bowhuntordie (Mar 24, 2007)

So after almost 2 years without a dog (black Lab) I am finally ready to get another one. I have been doing a lot of research on different dog breeds and was on the fence between another lab and a Brittany. myself along with my wife and oldest son have all decided on another lab. This dog is going to be different though. I want a very good hunting dog and am willing to put the time and money into getting one. 

Through all my research I have come across Kingseed Kennels and have actually talked to Tim twice now. I am very impressed on what I have read and from what he has said over the phone. I also just joined Hunters Creek and know they have a good line of dogs as well. I am an avid duck/goose hunter and obviously like to shoot upland as well. I want a great duck dog that will do well in the field as well. Whoever I buy the dog through is who I will have train my dog. I will be sending the dog away for a minimum of 4 months.

if anyone have any personal or second hand experiences with either I would love to hear what you have to say. This is a very important decision to me and I'm sure I will be happy either way I go but like I said I want to get the best results.


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## Matt.tzew (Oct 9, 2012)

Looks like you've already done more research than most when buying a dog.  If you bought from Kingseed it might be easier for you to have Tim train him as well. I bought from a different breeder on the East side of Michigan and tried training myself. I have a very obedient dog, but couldn't get past the whining in the blind. He would have done great on action packed hunts, but the public land skunks were unbearable for me. I get so many compliment in the summer out on the lake when he's retrieving his bumpers and goose doken, but I'll retrieve my own birds and he'll get his chance in the back yard when I get home.

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## bowhuntordie (Mar 24, 2007)

Yes, if I buy the pup from Tim at Kingseed he will be training the dog as well. Sometimes I drive myself nuts on how much "research" I do before making a big purchase or decision. I try to weigh out all of the options and pick what is best for me and/or situation. In this case I have 2 sons (almost 8 years old and 6 months old) and a daughter (almost 3 years old). I need to make sure this dog with mesh well with the family but I also was a dog that I can hunt with for years to come, whether in the duck blind or chasing pheasant.


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## Matt.tzew (Oct 9, 2012)

The more research the better. I did a bunch before I got my dog. He's great and I got in on a litter early enough to have first pick. I have an 8 month old son now too and my 6yo lab is great with him. Never even barely questioned it. I question everything. If you have the money to buy a Kingseed dog and training I'd do that. I wanted to give training my own dog a shot. I think I did pretty good for my first lab. I've got a very good house dog, just not a hunter. If I would have put more time in with him he could have been great. 

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## Outdoor Gal (Sep 9, 2008)

I have a Kingseed dog and train with quite a few other Kingseed dog owners. They are great dogs and Tim and Patti are great people as well, that will help you through the process. Tim is an excellent trainer and you'll end up with a very good hunting dog if you buy one of their pups and have Tim train it. Be careful, you may find yourself joining an HRC club and enjoy running for ribbons in the off season too. Lol. Seriously though, even if you don't plan on running hunt tests, joining an HRC club and going to training days is a great way to get off season work for your dog. 

My Kingseed dog is 4 now. He's my first hunting dog and the first hunting dog I've trained. We've learned together and he's been forgiving of my mistakes. He's a total couch potato at home but gets fired up when it's time to work. Great with the kids and our other two dogs as well.


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

bowhuntordie said:


> I have come across Kingseed Kennels and have actually talked to Tim twice now.


That's a good route for both dog and for training. PM me it falls through and you seek more recommendations. Tim often has waiting lists for pups.


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## lefty421 (Dec 7, 2012)

I see you mentioned a brittany as an option...... or a lab....... If you truly plan to upland hunt this dog, then you might want more of a field bred lab rather than the whiskey keg with legs type british lab.

upland hunting requires covering a lot of distance and cover. Not all labs are ideally built for that. a 100# lab may be great in the duck blind, but may not be down to run many miles chasing roosters or grouse.


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## Outdoor Gal (Sep 9, 2008)

Here are a few pics of Bravo. He's a Ely/Hannah pup. He's consistently about 65lb. Depending on the breeding, you may get a male that's a bit bigger than Bravo, but the Kingseed dogs have all been a nice working size. Love his size.

He's a great flusher and the kids like working and training him too. 

As Lamarsh said, Tim usually has a wait list for the pups. I waited for over a year. It was worth it.


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## Pat P (Nov 19, 2013)

I have a lab and Brittany and hunt upland and waterfowl with both. They both do great but excel in their own fields. If waterfowl is your first priority a lab is the way to go. In my case the lab is easier in the house too.


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## Steve Fifer (Nov 24, 2019)

lefty421 said:


> I see you mentioned a brittany as an option...... or a lab....... If you truly plan to upland hunt this dog, then you might want more of a field bred lab rather than the whiskey keg with legs type british lab.
> 
> upland hunting requires covering a lot of distance and cover. Not all labs are ideally built for that. a 100# lab may be great in the duck blind, but may not be down to run many miles chasing roosters or grouse.


WHISKEY KEG WITH LEGS BRITISH LAB YOU SAY? MY BRITISH LAB AND HUS OWNER TAKE OFFENSE TO THAT COMMENT. ANY LAB WILL TURN INTO A BARREL IF THEIR OWNER LETS THEM. TOK MYCH FOOD AND VERY LITTLE EXCERISE WILL DO THAT WITH. WITH DOGS AND PEOPLE. WHEN MY WILD ROSE BRITISH LAB WAS IN HIS PRIME HE WOULD GO ALL DAY CHASING DUCKS OR GROUSE. COOPER IS 10 NOW AND EVEN THOUGH HE'S ONLY 66 LBS HIS STAMINA IS STARTING TO WANE. SO LETS NOT BE DISING ON THE BRITISH LABS. ITS US AMERICANS THAT BRED THEM TO BE HUGE, FAT, FUNNY COLORED AND HIGH STRUNG.


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## mattm (Aug 13, 2005)

In went through lab research last year. I was looking for a field bred lab with the "off" switch. I wanted a dog that could work hard in the field, but also relax and be calm in the house.

The breeders I spoke with that had this type of lab, who I would not hesitate to buy a dog from in the future were-

Kingseed
Oldsquaw Kennels
Three Points Play

I went with Three Points because of timing, he had a litter on the ground and I only had to wait a couple weeks before they were ready to go.

I'm very happy with Wally. He's 11 months now, puts pheasant in the air, loves training and retriever drills. As long as he gets about 60-90 minutes of exercise and training daily, he's a couch potato inside.

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## DaveG (Jun 14, 2016)

I have my 8 month old lab with Tim right now doing retriever training in Alabama. Can't wait to get her back! Tim was very helpful with good advice on what to do and what not to do when she was a puppy prior to her going to school. I have hunted with other dogs that he has trained and they are awesome. Top notch trainer for sure.


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## lefty421 (Dec 7, 2012)

mattm said:


> In went through lab research last year. I was looking for a field bred lab with the "off" switch. I wanted a dog that could work hard in the field, but also relax and be calm in the house.
> 
> The breeders I spoke with that had this type of lab, who I would not hesitate to buy a dog from in the future were-
> 
> ...


Absolutely, but there is still variation between breeding to breeding, considering these breeders typically use several different males/females in their breedings, so not all the pups are the same. They can produce laid back pups and fire breathing pups depending on what dogs they choose to breed. For instance, most of these breeders/kennels have several different price tiers depending on the breeding. They will put varying disclaimers on the litter announcement depending on what dogs they are breeding and what they expect of the resulting pups. In other words, they produce litters of varying quality. Not saying anything is wrong with any of them, but not every Kingseed produced dog is the same. Not every Oldsquaw dog is the same, etc... simple fact.

Below are two statements made by the same breeder about two of their different litters on the ground at the same time.... again, two litters produced by the same kennel.

Litter A.
"These dogs in their pedigrees produce trainable, smart, easy to work with dogs who have wonderful personalities."

The same breeder but the following disclaimer on another breeding.....

Litter B.
"This litter is designed for intense hunt test and gun dog homes, and will work best where they have a job to do everyday."

Same breeder/trainer/kennel, but different levels of dogs being bred will result in different levels of pups. So while I would whole-heartedly agree that Kingseed, Oldsquaw, and Three Points, etc... can all put out great dogs, doesn't mean that every dog that comes out of those kennels are all going to be the same caliber either. These kennels can produce dogs more suited to upland hunting if that is what you are truly after, but its going to take making those wants known to the breeder and possibly waiting for the right breeding to come along.

my newest dog was a joint breeding between Frank Purdy (Oldsquaw) and Abby Eash (Trinity Oaks) and while I'm very happy with her, she is very, very high strung. If I ever find her off switch, I'll let you know. LOL.


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## goose schatt (Sep 11, 2012)

I had a granite ledge black lab and he was fantastic. RIP


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## Brougham (Jan 29, 2010)

Tim and Patti at Kingseed get my vote. Ten years hunting with first one, now two years on second dog. Expect I'll see them in the future for a third.


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## Rockydawg (Dec 8, 2019)

I have an 8-1/2 year old Kingseed lab from an Eli/Megan breeding. He's a wonderful dog all the way around! Tim trained him in Alabama for 3 months, and then followed up with 4 months at Tim's kennel here in West Michigan. 

I was able to train with Tim 6-7 times over the course of that summer, and I learned a ton about how to get the most out of my dog. Learning how to continue what Tim has started is very important, and knowing the process helps when your dog makes a mistake. It's true that there are more bad owners than bad dogs!

My son now has a 1-1/2 year old Kingseed lab (Eli/Gracie) that trained with Tim for 3 months. He hunted last year with us, and he's another great dog. I'd say the best part about both of these dogs is that they are absolute driven animals in the field, but they are both sweet and obedient in the house. 

I will definitely be getting another Kingseed dog. I hope that info is helpful!


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## bowhuntordie (Mar 24, 2007)

I ended up sending in my deposit to Kingseed so now it is just a waiting game. I can't wait for the phone call to let me know that I am up. Thank you to all of you that responded and gave your opinions/experiences. I really appreciate it. 

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## Socks (Jan 8, 2007)

bowhuntordie said:


> So after almost 2 years without a dog (black Lab) I am finally ready to get another one. I have been doing a lot of research on different dog breeds and was on the fence between another lab and a Brittany. myself along with my wife and oldest son have all decided on another lab. This dog is going to be different though. I want a very good hunting dog and am willing to put the time and money into getting one.
> 
> Through all my research I have come across Kingseed Kennels and have actually talked to Tim twice now. I am very impressed on what I have read and from what he has said over the phone. I also just joined Hunters Creek and know they have a good line of dogs as well. I am an avid duck/goose hunter and obviously like to shoot upland as well. I want a great duck dog that will do well in the field as well. Whoever I buy the dog through is who I will have train my dog. I will be sending the dog away for a minimum of 4 months.
> 
> if anyone have any personal or second hand experiences with either I would love to hear what you have to say. This is a very important decision to me and I'm sure I will be happy either way I go but like I said I want to get the best results.


Whenever it's time for me to get another lab, Tim will be at the top of the list for me. 

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## Boone16 (Jun 30, 2019)

Steve Fifer said:


> WHISKEY KEG WITH LEGS BRITISH LAB YOU SAY? MY BRITISH LAB AND HUS OWNER TAKE OFFENSE TO THAT COMMENT. ANY LAB WILL TURN INTO A BARREL IF THEIR OWNER LETS THEM. TOK MYCH FOOD AND VERY LITTLE EXCERISE WILL DO THAT WITH. WITH DOGS AND PEOPLE. WHEN MY WILD ROSE BRITISH LAB WAS IN HIS PRIME HE WOULD GO ALL DAY CHASING DUCKS OR GROUSE. COOPER IS 10 NOW AND EVEN THOUGH HE'S ONLY 66 LBS HIS STAMINA IS STARTING TO WANE. SO LETS NOT BE DISING ON THE BRITISH LABS. ITS US AMERICANS THAT BRED THEM TO BE HUGE, FAT, FUNNY COLORED AND HIGH STRUNG.


One of the many articles that will help explain the British vs. American breeding standard differences i.e. physical appearance, field vs. show etc. True British labs are bred to a “show” standard and are shorter and thicker with a boxier head. American labs are bred only for field work so their physical composition can vary, though they generally have longer legs, sleeker body and generally weigh less.
http://www.labradorretrieverguide.c...een-english-labradors-and-american-labradors/


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## goose schatt (Sep 11, 2012)

Boone16 said:


> One of the many articles that will help explain the British vs. American breeding standard differences i.e. physical appearance, field vs. show etc. True British labs are bred to a “show” standard and are shorter and thicker with a boxier head. American labs are bred only for field work so their physical composition can vary, though they generally have longer legs, sleeker body and generally weigh less.
> http://www.labradorretrieverguide.c...een-english-labradors-and-american-labradors/


In my opinion from what I’ve seen the American are much more agile and springy on their feet similar to a shorthair.


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