# Pistol question



## Tawastom (Oct 17, 2012)

question for you guys, I havent bothered to call anyone, and I cant seem to figure it out in the guide, I use a Henry rifle for trapping, where Im trapping there are many feral dogs abandoned by tourists, and a fairly good bear population, (near Oscoda), question is, although I dont have a CPL, can I open carry a larger than 22 caliber pistol while on my line? I dont feel like buying a 22 pistol. thanks in advance.


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## .44 (Oct 1, 2010)

I'm fairly sure you can open carry.My problem is law enforcements interpretation of the law.I would take a Saturday and take my cpl class,then no worries.Perfect example of a sherif interpretation,friend of mine pulled over for speeding,both his son and him have Cpl.No firearms in vehicle,cop runs license and reads them the riot act for not disclosing cpl.Friend informs officer no guns on them or in vehicle.Sherif writes him ticket for speeding and writes across top of ticket- failed to disclose ccwFriend was po'd went to court and everything was thrown out,but had to miss work.


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## buckslayer54 (Feb 18, 2013)

Yes you are allowed to open carry. And I was told in my cpl class that if pulled over it is always a good idea to inform officers that you have a cpl and that you are or are not carrying today. The legal portion was instructed by Steve Dulan who is very knowledgeable in this matter

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## Tawastom (Oct 17, 2012)

.44 said:


> I'm fairly sure you can open carry.My problem is law enforcements interpretation of the law.I would take a Saturday and take my cpl class,then no worries.Perfect example of a sherif interpretation,friend of mine pulled over for speeding,both his son and him have Cpl.No firearms in vehicle,cop runs license and reads them the riot act for not disclosing cpl.Friend informs officer no guns on them or in vehicle.Sherif writes him ticket for speeding and writes across top of ticket- failed to disclose ccwFriend was po'd went to court and everything was thrown out,but had to miss work.


Thank you, Im not interested in a CPL,no use for it other than this, just curious of the larger than 22 can be carried without violation of trapping regs,My pistol is fairly large revolver, and cant "conceal " anyway,lol


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## Jim58 (Jan 16, 2010)

Tawastom said:


> question for you guys, I havent bothered to call anyone, and I cant seem to figure it out in the guide, I use a Henry rifle for trapping, where Im trapping there are many feral dogs abandoned by tourists, and a fairly good bear population, (near Oscoda), question is, although I dont have a CPL, can I open carry a larger than 22 caliber pistol while on my line? I dont feel like buying a 22 pistol. thanks in advance.


I know this is off topic but you have peaked my interest. There is a problem with tourists leaving their dogs when they go home?


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

Tawastom said:


> question for you guys, I havent bothered to call anyone, and I cant seem to figure it out in the guide, I use a Henry rifle for trapping, where Im trapping there are many feral dogs abandoned by tourists, and a fairly good bear population, (near Oscoda), question is, although I dont have a CPL, can I open carry a larger than 22 caliber pistol while on my line? I dont feel like buying a 22 pistol. thanks in advance.


Tom,

Thanks for the question. Each year, I am happy to see a question like this come up before season starts. It puts people walking down the right path early so to speak.

Question I have, though, is the Henry for protection or disbatch? Is it a .22? Also, what is the intended use for the open carry pistol?

2014: Vote Yes For Conservation


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## wildlife chaser (Mar 4, 2005)

got my cpl just a little while ago and they said in class that you have to tell an officer that you have it and where your carring or not. and if you don't they will make you pay. and for getting cpl it will also make buying a new gun go faster because they don't have to do the back ground check. i only carry while on the trap line and i'm gald I got mine because during bad weather I can protect my gun


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## Tawastom (Oct 17, 2012)

Seaarkshooter said:


> Tom,
> 
> Thanks for the question. Each year, I am happy to see a question like this come up before season starts. It puts people walking down the right path early so to speak.
> 
> ...


Yes the Henry is a 22 and its for dispatching the trapped animals.The intended use of the carry pistol is for personal protection,dogs and pigs mostly.. I was backed into a pond years ago by a young boar bear, I cant swim if he wouldnt have changed his mind I would have had to choose between him and drowning.


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## Tawastom (Oct 17, 2012)

Jim58 said:


> I know this is off topic but you have peaked my interest. There is a problem with tourists leaving their dogs when they go home?


Its not reported as often as it once was, but I do see a few abandoned/lost dogs every fall, they seem to disappear in the mid winter. usually the mutt variety. sad really.


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## Jim58 (Jan 16, 2010)

Tawastom said:


> Its not reported as often as it once was, but I do see a few abandoned/lost dogs every fall, they seem to disappear in the mid winter. usually the mutt variety. sad really.


It is sad, hard to figure out how some minds work. Any how good luck with the trapping and thanks for the reply.

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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

Tawastom said:


> Yes the Henry is a 22 and its for dispatching the trapped animals.The intended use of the carry pistol is for personal protection,dogs and pigs mostly.. I was backed into a pond years ago by a young boar bear, I cant swim if he wouldnt have changed his mind I would have had to choose between him and drowning.


I can understand the concern. I was involved in a hunt twenty one years ago in Tennessee where a hunter had to be airlifted to a hospital after a boar pig tore his leg wide open while charging him. Our group was on an archery only hunt. Most everyone changed to rifles and muzzle loaders for the rest of the trip.

As far as the legality of open carry, I think you're perfectly within your rights. However, as a technicality to your legal question , I would point out that in Michigan you still have to have the trappers education class certificate to dispatch furbearers in a trap. While I don't believe it is a hard and fast rule to enforce with most conservation officers, I also think some COs may still not be totally versed with this law and therefore not enforcing it. Which may be due to the fact they probably do not check nearly as many trappers as what they do duck and deer hunters. However, it is still the law.

2014: Vote Yes For Conservation


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## Tawastom (Oct 17, 2012)

Seaarkshooter said:


> I can understand the concern. I was involved in a hunt twenty one years ago in Tennessee where a hunter had to be airlifted to a hospital after a boar pig tore his leg wide open while charging him. Our group was on an archery only hunt. Most everyone changed to rifles and muzzle loaders for the rest of the trip.
> 
> As far as the legality of open carry, I think you're perfectly within your rights. However, as a technicality to your legal question , I would point out that in Michigan you still have to have the trappers education class certificate to dispatch furbearers in a trap. While I don't believe it is a hard and fast rule to enforce with most conservation officers, I also think some COs may still not be totally versed with this law and therefore not enforcing it. Which may be due to the fact they probably do not check nearly as many trappers as what they do duck and deer hunters. However, it is still the law.
> 
> 2014: Vote Yes For Conservation


I dont believe it is, a quick check to the DNR site shows it as voluntary ,not to be contrary to your comment but here is the link.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10363-174841--,00.html


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## Billy_D (Feb 23, 2013)

It is perfectly legal to open carry a pistol in Michigan providing you don't have a felony, no history of mental illness, or restraining orders. In short if you OWN the gun then your ok. However, you must unload and store the pistol in the trunk of your car when driving, even if it is "open carried" in a holster, it is considered "concealed" if your in a vehicle (motorcycle, bicycle included). The caliber doesn't matter unless theres something in the trapping regs.


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## feedinggrounds (Jul 21, 2009)

I know the open carry law, I think. I have a 22 revolver strapped to the outside of the bucket I carry along with a packbasket, only loaded at point of dispatch a good habit really. I do this mainly because I leave the bucket on shore as I wade out alot and get all wet more than I like. Does the weapon need to be on my person? Thought about a trigger lock. Sometimes my old H+R single shot rifle seems the better choice, less legal issue than a pistol.


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## Tron322 (Oct 29, 2011)

Find a hunting/trapping guide, call the hotline and ask to be called by a C.O. that works your area. Ask the guy who may have an issue.


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## hillbillie (Jan 16, 2011)

Seaarkshooter said:


> As far as the legality of open carry, I think you're perfectly within your rights. However, as a technicality to your legal question , I would point out that in Michigan you still have to have the trappers education class certificate to dispatch furbearers in a trap. While I don't believe it is a hard and fast rule to enforce with most conservation officers, I also think some COs may still not be totally versed with this law and therefore not enforcing it. Which may be due to the fact they probably do not check nearly as many trappers as what they do duck and deer hunters. However, it is still the law.
> 
> 2014: Vote Yes For Conservation



I'm also concerned about this statement

I'm 58 years old. Been legally hunting since I was 12.Been trapping almost as long.Have a CPL.I regularly use a Ruger single six for dispatch.I don't have a trapper education certificate.

Have I been breaking game laws that i was unaware of?
My understanding that any violation of game laws is a misdemeanor and I don't need that the next time I apply for a cpl renewal.Especially a misdemeanor involving a pistol.

Can someone please post a reference or link to this rule/law. I can't seem to find it.

Thanks

Tom


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## takemfishing (Apr 26, 2008)

This is from the Michigan hunting and trapping guide.

"From Nov. 15-30, a licensed fur trapper may carry and use a .22 caliber or smaller rimfire to kill legally trapped coyote, fox, raccoon, bobcat and badger, 
firearm may only be loaded at the point of kill."

The way I read this you may not walk around with a 22 caliber loaded during Firearm dear season while you are trapping.


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## russfim (Jul 19, 2008)

I'm a little late on the draw here--so to speak--but you may open carry while hunting/trapping. Or so I was told recently when handgun shopping. What does it say in the MDNR Hunting/Trapping guide? I'd go with it and not worry about it. However, when traveling to/from the hunting/trapping areas be sure to have the handgun locked in a case out of the owner's/driver's reach and the cartridges away from the handgun. Be sure to have your Pistol Sale Record in your possession, too. You should be legal and just fine.


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## hillbillie (Jan 16, 2011)

Tawastom said:


> question for you guys, I havent bothered to call anyone, and I cant seem to figure it out in the guide, I use a Henry rifle for trapping, where Im trapping there are many feral dogs abandoned by tourists, and a fairly good bear population, (near Oscoda), question is, although I dont have a CPL, can I open carry a larger than 22 caliber pistol while on my line? I dont feel like buying a 22 pistol. thanks in advance.


Found this rule:It is illegal for a person taking or attempting to take game (trapping ?) to carry or possess afield a ------------------------centerfire or blackpower handgun---------------

*Nov. 15-30 Firearm Deer Season
*It is illegal for a person taking or attempting to take game to carry or possess afield a centerfire or muzzleloading rifle, a crossbow, a bow and arrow, a centerfire or black powder handgun, or a shotgun with buckshot, slug or ball loads or cut shells, unless you have in your possession a 2012 firearm deer, combination deer or antlerless deer license for the appropriate DMU, with an unused kill tag issued in your name, or a 2012 firearm deer, combination deer or antlerless deer license for the appropriate DMU issued in your name with an unused Deer Management Assistance (DMA) permit kill tag or an unused managed deer hunting permit.


Make sure you have a valid firearm deer license Nov.15-30 while trapping and caring a centerfire handgun and don't forget to carry that .22 Henry unloaded and load only @ point of dispatch during this time frame.


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## hillbillie (Jan 16, 2011)

Don't forget to read the disclaimer (small print) on page 3 of the hunting and trapping digest


NOTICE
: This brochure is not a legal 
notice or a complete collection of 
hunting regulations and laws. 
i
t is a 
condensed digest issued for hunters 
convenience. Copies of Wildlife 
Conservation Orders, which contain 
complete listings of regulations and 
legal descriptions, are available on our 
website: 
www. michigan.gov/dnrlaws

There may in fact be laws that aren't technically enforced


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## russfim (Jul 19, 2008)

see page 20 of the 2013 hunt/trap digest under "Statewide Handgun Regulations." It says, "While in the field, handguns must be carried in plain view." Next it says, "Carrying a handgun in a holster in plain view is permitted." I plan to carry whenever I decide to do so--like when bird hunting in the UP or perhaps at other times, as well.

P.S. We are lawed, ruled and regulated to death. Then we're interpreted with a microscope and dissected with a razor-sharp blade. Yet in spite of all this, hunting is fun. Shoulder your rifle or shotgun and strap on your pistol. Then head for the great outdoors!


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## James Dymond (Feb 23, 2002)

I'm also concerned about this statement

I'm 58 years old. Been legally hunting since I was 12.Been trapping almost as long.Have a CPL.I regularly use a Ruger single six for dispatch.I don't have a trapper education certificate.

Have I been breaking game laws that i was unaware of?
My understanding that any violation of game laws is a misdemeanor and I don't need that the next time I apply for a cpl renewal.Especially a misdemeanor involving a pistol.

Can someone please post a reference or link to this rule/law. I can't seem to find it.

Thanks

Tom[/QUOTE]
Originally Posted by Seaarkshooter View Post 


As far as the legality of open carry, I think you're perfectly within your rights. However, as a technicality to your legal question , I would point out that in Michigan you still have to have the trappers education class certificate to dispatch furbearers in a trap. While I don't believe it is a hard and fast rule to enforce with most conservation officers, I also think some COs may still not be totally versed with this law and therefore not enforcing it. Which may be due to the fact they probably do not check nearly as many trappers as what they do duck and deer hunters. However, it is still the law.

2014: Vote Yes For Conservation


Never heard of this before either.
Jim


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## johnd (Mar 31, 2008)

Never heard of it either.


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## Tawastom (Oct 17, 2012)

johnd said:


> Never heard of it either.


Thats what Im saying, its no where in the trapping guide that I can find,concerning the Trapper Education certificate. the only thing i can find quickly is its voluntary. Someone should chime in with an actual Law or Regulation concerning
this.


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

James Dymond said:


> I'm also concerned about this statement
> 
> I'm 58 years old. Been legally hunting since I was 12.Been trapping almost as long.Have a CPL.I regularly use a Ruger single six for dispatch.I don't have a trapper education certificate.
> 
> ...


Originally Posted by Seaarkshooter View Post 


As far as the legality of open carry, I think you're perfectly within your rights. However, as a technicality to your legal question , I would point out that in Michigan you still have to have the trappers education class certificate to dispatch furbearers in a trap. While I don't believe it is a hard and fast rule to enforce with most conservation officers, I also think some COs may still not be totally versed with this law and therefore not enforcing it. Which may be due to the fact they probably do not check nearly as many trappers as what they do duck and deer hunters. However, it is still the law.

2014: Vote Yes For Conservation


Never heard of this before either.
Jim[/QUOTE]


Well, that's because I have somehow led you guys astray. My apologies. This is why. 

When the trapper's education manual was first printed in 2009. Page 124 of the chapter "Running A Trapline" stated that in order to dispatch an animal in a trap one must be a trapping eduction certificate holder or the graduate of a hunters education course. My notes to this show a reference to "WCO" Part 3 of 1994 PA 451 sec (2.3) and sec. (3.6) subsection (1)

Looking at those current sections of those same sections you will see now it states only:

*2.3 Permitted acts; trapping; use of rimfire firearm .22 caliber or smaller; American Indians on reservations.*
Sec. 2.3 This order shall not be construed to prohibit any of the following:
(1) The trapping of fur-bearing animals as provided in this order.
(2) The carrying and using of a rimfire firearm .22 caliber or smaller to kill raccoon while hunting with dogs between the hours of 7 p.m. and 6 a.m. during the firearm deer season 
(3) The carrying and using of a rimfire firearm .22 caliber or smaller to kill legally trapped furbearers, as permitted in section 3.600 (1), during the firearm deer season if the firearm is loaded only at the point of kill.
(4) The enjoyment by American Indians living on a reservation of the privileges bestowed upon them by federal law or treaties.
History: Eff. Mar 31, 1989; Am. 2, 2003, Eff. Apr 12, 2003; Am. 11, 2011, Eff. Jun 10, 2011.
*[/COLOR]* 
*3.600 Fur-bearing animals; use of firearms; traps and catching devices; use of bait; unlawful acts.*
Sec. 3.600 It shall be unlawful for any person:
(1) To use a firearm, crossbow, or bow and arrow to take marten, muskrat, beaver, otter, mink, fisher, or badger, except as permitted by authority of a nuisance control permit issued by the department. Rimfire firearms .22 caliber or smaller may be used to kill coyote, fox, raccoon, bobcat, and badger in traps, except for youths trapping with a junior fur harvester-trap only license.

Also, a current, updated version of the the trappers education manual on page 124 now only shows "In Michigan, trappers are required to be graduates of hunter education courses in order to carry a firearm."

So, I can only surmise that possibly on June 10th, 2011 one or more sections were amended to withdraw the restriction of needing to be a trapping education certificate holder to legally dispatch an animal in a trap. These changes are certainly a surprise to me and I will be following up to see when and where the changes were made to the WCO. 


As it stands, I am not sure how to interpret now the trapper's education manual reference to needing to be a "graduate of a hunter education course in order to carry a firearm." What if you are grandfathered in with previous hunting lisence purchases prior to the cut off date requiring a hunter safety certificate? Many are. I will look into this.

Sorry for the confusion.


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## hillbillie (Jan 16, 2011)

Seaarkshooter: 


Thanks for the clarification


Tom


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## Tawastom (Oct 17, 2012)

Seeark, yes thanks for the clarification, a few of us were confused. However, I believe any of us that took Hunters safety have already fulfilled our requirements and I would oppose any additional classes. Heres my position, I see more and more "Certificates" being wanted in all aspects of life, looking over that course, it looks very educational, but should stay voluntary. Many of these courses and regulations are based on one groups opinion of how things should be, QDM is an example. CPL is another. There will always be some blockhead that traps in a city park or shoots himself in the foot, you cant fix stupid right?


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