# Another UP Wolf Killing



## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Anyone have any more info on this one?
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/3-7-11__3-20-11_348668_7.pdf



> *Law Enforcement Division
> Bi-Weekly Field Report
> 3/7/11  3/20/11 *
> 
> ...


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

or how about this one?

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/2-21-11_-_3-6-11_347504_7.pdf



> *Law Enforcement Division
> Bi-Weekly Field Report
> 2/21/11  3/6/11 *
> 
> ...


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## rough_surface (Jan 3, 2009)

Keep up the good work.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

I guess the total is now about 8 or 9 illegal wolf kills. It makes one wonder how many were killed that they don't know about. It looks like they have caught a couple of the shooters though.


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## hunting man (Mar 2, 2005)

Makes me think about how many get shot during the fall hunting seasons. My friends from the UP told me"not enough yet". So I am sure more than we hear reports of.


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## hunting man (Mar 2, 2005)

Do the Indians have a wolf season?


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## Nork (Apr 29, 2009)

hunting man said:


> Do the Indians have a wolf season?


Nope.


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## hunting man (Mar 2, 2005)

Hey Nork
Do you know my friends the Simi family from your town?


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## fishinmachine2 (May 7, 2004)

I guess the locals are getting sick of them!!!

Scott


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## Nork (Apr 29, 2009)

hunting man, I don't think I know them.


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## AceMcbanon (Apr 2, 2003)

I think all over the U.P. you are gonna hear more often about people poaching deer then wolves killing deer, Don't get me wrong there needs to be management as soon as possible on wolves but poaching is pretty prevalent up here. And to justify one type of poaching over another makes no sense to me. 

Hell I remember the guy from Wisconsin who was deer hunting and killed a wolf in Michigan but never even had a deer license was praised around here. Makes me sick, and scared that our hunting heritage is slowly gonna be eliminated.

Also the recommendation of "just take a gut shot" I have seen on these forums disgusts me. I respect every animal I kill whether it be varmint or game.


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## UPHuntr (Feb 24, 2009)

*Law Enforcement Division 
Bi-Weekly Field Report 
3/7/11  3/20/11 

*DISTRICT 2 

COs Reid Roeske, Jerry Fitzgibbon and Sgt. Darryl Shann investigated the illegal killing of a wolf in central Delta County. With the assistance of the Department pilot and plane, the COs were able to locate the site and the dead wolf. The investigation continues. 

Read more at Michigan-Sportsman.com: Another UP Wolf Killing - The Michigan Sportsman Forums http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=374338#ixzz1I5591Q1w



I would like to know why our Michigan CO's are responding to this "Federal" problem? The feds woun't let the state DNR control these animals, but they want the state (we the sportsman) to flip the bill to inforce any investigating that needs to be done. My stance is the Feds should have a team in place in the U.P. to take control of this isssue.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Back in the 1980"s the Feds and the DNR brought a few wolves into the Marquette area from Canada and released them. It took about three months and all were shot and killed. The DNR was hot and heavy on that investigation but I do not think that they arrested anyone. From my experience with them they are not shy of humans or dogs. If you live in a rural area they will go right through your back yard. I am sure that people with children or pets do not like this. The DNR has very little control over them yet they must investigate every poaching incident and this is done at the expense of people who purchase hunting licenses. The anti's pay very little if any of any expenses related to wolves and wolf issues. I am extremely surprised that nobody has arranged for a legal expense fund to help the people who get caught killing wolves. As we found out this year and in past years it is not always the local residents killing them so do not blame the yoopers.


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## doogie mac (Oct 24, 2010)

AceMcbanon said:


> I think all over the U.P. you are gonna hear more often about people poaching deer then wolves killing deer, Don't get me wrong there needs to be management as soon as possible on wolves but poaching is pretty prevalent up here. And to justify one type of poaching over another makes no sense to me.
> 
> Hell I remember the guy from Wisconsin who was deer hunting and killed a wolf in Michigan but never even had a deer license was praised around here. Makes me sick, and scared that our hunting heritage is slowly gonna be eliminated.
> 
> Also the recommendation of "just take a gut shot" I have seen on these forums disgusts me. I respect every animal I kill whether it be varmint or game.


 Well said Ace,pretty much sums up my thoughts!


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## sourdough44 (Mar 2, 2008)

How about a link to the story of the 2 MI Conservation Officers that killed 2 wolves the other week in Iron co I believe. How come they can but we can't, legally? I know, I know, we don't know nuthin.


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## doogie mac (Oct 24, 2010)

Pretty hot topic.....
If you are new,check out some of the previous threads on this subject. We need management,bottom line.But while we are out filling in this pothole,lets repair the entire road! (bear with me here...).
Wolves are here to stay.Wolves are a problem,but a relatively small piece of the problem as far as our deer herd is concerned. Habitat,poaching,liberal bag limits,poaching. Did I mention poaching? I do not defend wolves here,but they are a perfect fit to fill in everybody's "why there aint no deer anymore" agendas.
Another thing-go getcha a trail camera. I really believe there is not a better modern technology tool that'll tell a so called hunter that he better stay in the fartsack instead of getting up and going out to his post. We have every excuse in the world. 
Deal with it,management will happen.When a wolf season is offered,I will be first in line to get my tag!


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## UP POWER (Jan 17, 2007)

doogie mac said:


> Pretty hot topic.....
> Wolves are here to stay.Wolves are a problem,but a relatively small piece of the problem as far as our deer herd is concerned.
> 
> 
> > I wholeheartedly disagree. We have fewer hunters, killing fewer deer than we have had in decades. That is a fact. If the deer herd problems were with hunters, we should be seeing an increase in deer numbers. But we are not. The winters have been mild in a historical sense. The thing that has changed in recent years is the nuimber of wolves. All other things considered I think the wolves are a very significant part of the problem. Actually, I think they ARE the problem. I would donate to a legal defense fund for the accused.


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## MERGANZER (Aug 24, 2006)

If you shoot a wolf you are a scumbag! Plain and simple. Its not just a Federal problem its Michigan and the C.O.'s are paid to protect and preserve the natural resources of this state. Wolves are a natural resource of this state and they are protected same as any other protected animal. Do you complain if a C.O. responds to the killing of bald eagles???? Geta management plan togather and go from their but these Hilljack retards in the UP who think they are smarter than the biologists after a few PBR's need to sit back and put the rifle back in the passenger seat. Its a majestic animal worthy of respect and protection. Hell those yoopers take more deer in the off season than any wolf ever did. This is all about competition I think.

Ganzer


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## DaGuy (Jan 13, 2011)

doogie mac said:


> Pretty hot topic.....
> If you are new,check out some of the previous threads on this subject. We need management,bottom line.But while we are out filling in this pothole,lets repair the entire road! (bear with me here...).
> Wolves are here to stay.Wolves are a problem,but a relatively small piece of the problem as far as our deer herd is concerned. Habitat,poaching,liberal bag limits,poaching. Did I mention poaching? I do not defend wolves here,but they are a perfect fit to fill in everybody's "why there aint no deer anymore" agendas.


Pretty hot topic..... Amen!!! 

I whole heartedly agree that we NEED management, desperately! Most wolves are killed because the "managers" do nothing but intimidate and prosecute those most effected by the wolf population. Call it growing pains but as wolf "incidents" increase so does the fear, irritation and anger. 

I'm sure many deer are "poached" as always: some for food and some for profit. The DNR seems to keep wholesale poaching in check, on a rotating scale, sort of. Wolves on the other hand are wolves 24/7 and as they increase in population so do their eating habits. 

I would respectfully disagree on a couple points though. One: "Wolves are here to stay." Two: "a relatively small piece of the problem ". One, I think that you under estimate the will of people forced to live with wolves. Two, I think you under estimate the 24/7 killing machine capability. I do not condone unnecessary killing but I cannot condemn a man protecting his family and property real or perceived. These dead wolves were not "poached" for profit!

We as a "state" are so divided I doubt that any realistic program will ever be formulated. Those who forget or deny history are doomed to relive it.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

I can see it coming all of the pavement hugging outskirts of metro weekend warrior outdoorsmen will chime in on what a wonderful animal the wolf is. We have 1000 plus of them (don't believe the dnr airplane count of 520) in the UP. We will not miss lets say 250 -300 if the DNR would load them up and drop them off on the outskirts of Lansing. They can travel 50 miles overnight so they will spread out pretty good. Let them get established good in the LP and you will respect them as much as you do your wild pigs. Two issues with the wolves in the UP is that the DNR has been lying about them for 20+ years and their numbers have been continuously underestimated. If you do not think that they impact deer numbers then you really need an outdoor education. If one person killed as many deer as one wolf does the DNR would be on a never ending man hunt for that "poacher".


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

Here are a few wolf facts that need to be considered. The DNR does an annual fly over of the entire U.P. where they count each individual wolf and come up with an exact number of wolves living there. Anybody who has spent any time in the U.P. knows that much of that land mass is composed of thickly vegetated habitat that would prevent any animal from being spotted from a plane, yet the DNR does not factor that in. Most people with a clue believe that there are well over 1,000 wolves in the U.P. and Ive even heard one DNR biologist say that wolf numbers are over 1,000. Even if we use a conservative number like 1,000, the number of deer killed by wolves is not insignificant. A top wolf researcher told me that a study showed that upper Great Lakes wolves kill 30-50 deer per year, per wolf. That equates to possibly over 50,000 deer killed in the U.P. per year by wolves or roughly the same number of deer that hunters kill. Hardly insignificant.


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## triplelunger (Dec 21, 2009)




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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

I would like to know which peninsula has the highest percentage of the wolf population being poached. One of the first known LP born wolf pups has already been poached. One of the first known LP wolves was shot by a trapper in the NELP. The only conviction of a wolf poacher in 2011 was from Bay City. The facts are clearly pointing south of the bridge on who is responsible for a great number of wolf kills.

There's no need to worry about this being a one time abnormality. I'm sure that the impressive ice bridge we had this winter allowed a few more to migrate south. More pups will be born again this year in the LP. The numbers will creep up slowly like it did in the "80s in the EUP. In a decade or two LP elk numbers will sip, local deer populations will also drop and poaching in the LP will continue to increase. It's part of the life cycle that wolves have enjoyed since their comeback.


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## anon12162011 (Jun 9, 2009)

Trophy Specialist said:


> Here are a few wolf facts that need to be considered. The DNR does an annual fly over of the entire U.P. where they count each individual wolf and come up with an exact number of wolves living there. Anybody who has spent any time in the U.P. knows that much of that land mass is composed of thickly vegetated habitat that would prevent any animal from being spotted from a plane, yet the DNR does not factor that in. Most people with a clue believe that there are well over 1,000 wolves in the U.P. and Ive even heard one DNR biologist say that wolf numbers are over 1,000. Even if we use a conservative number like 1,000, the number of deer killed by wolves is not insignificant. A top wolf researcher told me that a study showed that upper Great Lakes wolves kill 30-50 deer per year, per wolf. That equates to possibly over 50,000 deer killed in the U.P. per year by wolves or roughly the same number of deer that hunters kill. Hardly insignificant.


What was the name of that top wolf researcher? I'd be interested in reading some of his scientific literature?


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## Beaverhunter2 (Jan 22, 2005)

Trophy Specialist said:


> Utah did just that when they took away their hunting season. Utah told the Feds that they will no longer spend any state money on wolves including dealing with illegal wolf killings. If there are any more delays in the Feds' giving management control of MI's wolves to MI, then we should do the same thing.


TS,
That was Montana- not Utah; and they didn't do it- there's a bill going through their state legislature to direct their state employees do not assist with managing and protecting wolves. Last I heard it had not yet passed.

To all- 
You guys do know that the Feds delisted the Great Lakes wolf population once, don't you? Also, that they are fighting in court and following the process required by the ESA to try to do it again? 

What more would you have them do?

Jhon


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## doogie mac (Oct 24, 2010)

Beaverhunter2 said:


> TS,
> That was Montana- not Utah; and they didn't do it- there's a bill going through their state legislature to direct their state employees do not assist with managing and protecting wolves. Last I heard it had not yet passed.
> 
> To all-
> ...


 Thank-you!


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## Magnet (Mar 2, 2001)

The wolf problem probably won't get addressed until the wolf population has spread to the Southern half of the LP. Once the Southern half realizes that if they let their precious "Fee-Fee" out for a run in the back yard, "Fee-Fee" might not be coming back in for dinner, because he was dinner. Then comes the fear of what "could" happen to the small kids that play out side. That is when the issue will become more important to the majority population of this state. That fear is already alive and well to some residents of the our UP. Until those fears are realized in the Southern half, who knows how bad it might get?

The wolves have already been hitting the farmers livestock and have taken pets out of yards in the UP. If that isn't reason enough to get them under control, what is? I saw more wolves during last years bear and deer seasons than ever before. Deer hunting and deer sightings have declined severly since the late 80's. It is getting bad. I'd like to see some change.


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## da Appleknocker (Jan 26, 2009)

Trophy Spec., Not Utah.
Beaverhunter2, Not Montana.
It was Idaho.


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## Threefish (Jan 20, 2009)

I feel for the people of the UP. They have been burden by people that don't have to deal with the repercussions of their ideals. Its sad that other people can make decisions for someone else ,especially on that large of a scale. The Yoopers live in the UP, because they love the outdoors and the wild life. But they know whats happening and they know it isn't good. They have had a burden placed on them that has changed the way they live and cant do a thing about it, legally. I can see it in Alaska and Canada and a few other places but even those places need to keep them wild. I think the UP should be able to control what happens in UP. Look at the population boom with the coyotes in LP and we have a season on them. I never even heard a coyote when i was growing up in the LP. now there every where. Thats what can happen with the wolves and is happing in the UP. Im hoping something good happens for yous before its to late. I say box em up and return to sender.


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

da Appleknocker said:


> Trophy Spec., Not Utah.
> Beaverhunter2, Not Montana.
> It was Idaho.


 :lol:


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## Beaverhunter2 (Jan 22, 2005)

da Appleknocker said:


> Trophy Spec., Not Utah.
> Beaverhunter2, Not Montana.
> It was Idaho.


The email of the bill I saw was from a Montanan and I believe it was about Montana. They lost their wolf season, too. Either way, the bill language I saw would prevent all State employees from assisting the feds in managing and protecting wolves any way; and would direct them to take all reasonable action to remove the "invasive species" from the state. Pretty strong stuff!

Back to my original questions- a lot of folks are pounding on the State and the Feds. What more would you have them do?


John


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## ericzerka24 (Aug 12, 2010)

augustus0603 said:


> Have you hunted the NLP?
> 
> The deer herd there is down drastically too. To my knowledge there are only 2-3 breeding packs in the lower. Are they doing the damage?
> 
> ...


No I don't hunt NLP but I do hunt from central LP and down. Herds seem to be doing just fine around here and there was no complaining from me so I don't know what your talking about there hoss. I'm sick and tired of hearing all the "wolf humpers" talk about how they aren't the problem.


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## ericzerka24 (Aug 12, 2010)

Threefish said:


> I feel for the people of the UP. They have been burden by people that don't have to deal with the repercussions of their ideals. Its sad that other people can make decisions for someone else ,especially on that large of a scale. The Yoopers live in the UP, because they love the outdoors and the wild life. But they know whats happening and they know it isn't good. They have had a burden placed on them that has changed the way they live and cant do a thing about it, legally. I can see it in Alaska and Canada and a few other places but even those places need to keep them wild. I think the UP should be able to control what happens in UP. Look at the population boom with the coyotes in LP and we have a season on them. I never even heard a coyote when i was growing up in the LP. now there every where. Thats what can happen with the wolves and is happing in the UP. Im hoping something good happens for yous before its to late. I say box em up and return to sender.


x2.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

x3


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## UPHuntr (Feb 24, 2009)

BigR said:


> What was the name of that top wolf researcher? I'd be interested in reading some of his scientific literature?


I am sure that Mike will respond with his accidednt of saying Utah and post that it is actually Idaho.

Before you go questioning his sources, you need to search on here for posting T.S. has done on the wolf problems in the U.P.. He has actual pictures of the wolfs taking a deer down and has also done extensive research for the many magizine articles that he has written on this subject. If you read any of the articles he has written he quotes the biologists/researchers that he has talked to. All you need to do is research the wolf for your self and pick up a phone and make some calls to wolf researchers/biologists and you can find these facts out yourself. If you herd the same thing from those people (and you will) are you going to question how they recieved their information?


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## anon12162011 (Jun 9, 2009)

UPHuntr said:


> I am sure that Mike will respond with his accidednt of saying Utah and post that it is actually Idaho.
> 
> Before you go questioning his sources, you need to search on here for posting T.S. has done on the wolf problems in the U.P.. He has actual pictures of the wolfs taking a deer down and has also done extensive research for the many magizine articles that he has written on this subject. If you read any of the articles he has written he quotes the biologists/researchers that he has talked to. All you need to do is research the wolf for your self and pick up a phone and make some calls to wolf researchers/biologists and you can find these facts out yourself. If you herd the same thing from those people (and you will) are you going to question how they recieved their information?


Woah, easy there Chief, just asking for a name so I could cut down on my research time. I'm not looking for paraphrased magazine articles, I am looking for scientific literature, published.


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## augustus0603 (Oct 24, 2005)

ericzerka24 said:


> No I don't hunt NLP but I do hunt from central LP and down.


So, you have no idea what I was referencing. Chief.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

UPHuntr said:


> I am sure that Mike will respond with his accidednt of saying Utah and post that it is actually Idaho.


Ya, I made a mistake, sorry. I don't know how I could have confused Utah with Idaho. I don't think they even have wolves yet in Utah. It was actually the governer of Idaho that told the Feds to kiss off. I wonder is Snyder would ever have the nads to do that one?

Beaverhunter - I wouldn't be suprised if Wyoming and Montana also fallowed Idaho's lead. Those states are really getting shafted by the Feds on the wolf issue. 

Big R - I did a few articles on surplus killing by wolves, which has been studied by several wolf biologists. In areas like the U.P. where deer often congregate during the winter in yards the number of deer killed per wolves, per year can be very high. When you think about it, if a pack of five wolves kills 200 deer in a year, or roughly a deer every other day, then that would be 40 deer per wolf per year. You also have to consider that probably over half the deer wolves kill are fawns. There are times of the year when wolves will kill fewer deer and also times when they will kill a bunch. I've seen some wolf lovers claim that a wolf will only kill 10 deer per year. Now using your common sense, which number do you think is closer? 

I won't have time today to dig out any details on the studies as my charter season is starting tomorrow and I have a ton of work to do today to get ready.


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

augustus0603 said:


> So, you have no idea what I was referencing. Chief.


 I'm still try'n to figure out what you were referencing too.. There's APRs in the UP and part of NLP.. more food sources. less hunters.. and I haven't seen a harsh winter in 4-5 yrs. Plus I have no problem seeing deer..But NLP is big and I'm not sure where Madison Heights is located up here so things must be different where you are.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Every year in the UP the Feds or the state DNR have to shoot a few wolves. By doing this they are admitting that there is a problem with the wolves. In the case in Iron County they were coming too close to residences. In other cases they are killing livestock. So there are problem wolves and they are a threat to humans, pets, and livestock. These killings by the feds and DNR are kind of kept on the hush hush side. If the DNR & Feds were true public servents they would be free to disclose these killings. Then there might be less people taking the law into their own hands. I would be trigger happy if I had one in my back yard.


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

doogie mac said:


> Will keep my eyes peeled man. I too gave up the grogg years ago,but what little bit I do remember:lol: is that all those good ole brews had to be cold or else they tasted like badger piss.


 I cant remember the last time i swizzled down a nice cold glass of badger piss.:lol:


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## doogie mac (Oct 24, 2010)

brushbuster said:


> I cant remember the last time i swizzled down a nice cold glass of badger piss.:lol:


 HAHA!
Tryin to add a little levity to a pretty heated topic. The heck have you been!!??


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## tyler2009 (Oct 23, 2008)

MERGANZER said:


> If you shoot a wolf you are a scumbag! Plain and simple. Its not just a Federal problem its Michigan and the C.O.'s are paid to protect and preserve the natural resources of this state. Wolves are a natural resource of this state and they are protected same as any other protected animal. Do you complain if a C.O. responds to the killing of bald eagles???? Geta management plan togather and go from their but these Hilljack retards in the UP who think they are smarter than the biologists after a few PBR's need to sit back and put the rifle back in the passenger seat. Its a majestic animal worthy of respect and protection. Hell those yoopers take more deer in the off season than any wolf ever did. This is all about competition I think.
> 
> Ganzer



You should really quit posting, talking, or even having an opinion ever again. It is a disgrace that anybody has to read anything you ever type. Over 2000 posts? You should really get off of the computer and get outdoors so your opinion isn't 100% ignorant and 100% useless.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

I have a couple questions on killing wolves in MI:

1) Is it required by law that if you shoot a wolf in self defense that you report it? I've had a few close calls with wolves, and always thought that if ever I shot one, I'd call my lawyer first and get advice before even thinking about calling the DNR.

2) If you shot a wolf in self defense, wouldnt it be up to the DNR to prove that it somehow was not in self defense before they could charge you? In this country you are innocent until proven guilty. The last time I checked, citizens that are being investigated for an alleged crime do not have to talk to the authorities either so proving that it wasn't self defense could be very difficult.


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## doogie mac (Oct 24, 2010)

Trophy Specialist said:


> I have a couple questions on killing wolves in MI:
> 
> 1) Is it required by law that if you shoot a wolf in self defense that you report it? I've had a few close calls with wolves, and always thought that if ever I shot one, I'd call my lawyer first and get advice before even thinking about calling the DNR.
> 
> 2) If you shot a wolf in self defense, wouldnt it be up to the DNR to prove that it somehow was not in self defense before they could charge you? In this country you are innocent until proven guilty. The last time I checked, citizens that are being investigated for an alleged crime do not have to talk to the authorities either so proving that it wasn't self defense could be very difficult.


 Gotta believe you have to report it...
Years ago when the cougar thing was starting to take holt,I asked a C.O. what if Im sittin there blaring out a murder scene on my dead rabbit call and low and behold,big kitty is poised and fixin to pounce on me. He studdered and stammered something about there being no cougars in MI,but if I did bag a cat it better be in self defense. And oh yeah,dont forget to report it were his last words.


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## ericzerka24 (Aug 12, 2010)

tyler2009 said:


> You should really quit posting, talking, or even having an opinion ever again. It is a disgrace that anybody has to read anything you ever type. Over 2000 posts? You should really get off of the computer and get outdoors so your opinion isn't 100% ignorant and 100% useless.


haha


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

doogie mac said:


> HAHA!
> Tryin to add a little levity to a pretty heated topic. The heck have you been!!??


I kinda hibernated after cat season ,puttsing around in my shop fiddling with call making. I poke my nose in here to stir a pot from time to time to get a laugh then i go back to turning wood and antler. I havent figured out whats going to be our demise yet , baiting,wolves,antler restriction gear restriction on waterways changing of the opener or consumption of badger piss. One good thing,turkey season's right around the corner.


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## bucko12pt (Dec 9, 2004)

About 3-4 years ago the head of the wolf program for the DNR came to a fundraiser Big Buck Night for Kingsley High School. He did a talk and slide presentation and basically said what Trophy Specialist said. Actually, he indicated the estimated population was 580 plus wolves in the UP at the time and an adult killed up to 1 deer per week for subsistence. He said they also sport kill and those kills are not included in the 1 per week number. He had plenty of slides of both subsistence and sport kills. The sport kills were simply kills without being fed on and for the most part, were in deer yards.

If i could remember his name I would post it, but I do'nt remember it.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

I thought Michigan, both the UP and LP got along very well without wolves. Why do we need them now?


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## doogie mac (Oct 24, 2010)

petronius said:


> I thought Michigan, both the UP and LP got along very well without wolves. Why do we need them now?


 Ahhhh....tis the million dollar question.
Welcome to the jungle.


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## Bearboy (Feb 4, 2009)

DNA Tests Shed Light on MO Cougar, Wolf Sightings
By Jim Low, Missouri Dept. of Conservation

First posted on 03-28-2011


Analysis of DNA and other physical evidence is helping biologists learn more about unusual wildlife sightings that have occurred in Missouri in recent months.

COYOTE OR WOLF?

The string of sightings began Nov. 13 with the shooting of what appeared to be an unusually large coyote in Carroll County. The Missouri Department of Conservation (MDC) sought DNA tests to clarify the animals identity. Scientists sometimes can determine where an animal came from by comparing its DNA with DNA samples from animals of the same species from different areas.

The first round of testing compared DNA from the 104-pound canine to that of western timber wolves. The tests showed a poor match with western wolves but did confirm the presence of coyote DNA. However, further testing linked the animal to timber wolves.

Coyotes seldom get bigger than 30 pounds in Missouri, said MDC Resource Scientist Jeff Beringer. A coyote weighing more than 100 pounds just didnt seem credible. Wolves are known to interbreed with domestic dogs and coyotes, so we had further testing done to look for evidence of that, and we found it.

The second round of DNA tests compared the Carroll County canines DNA with samples from timber wolves from the Great Lake states of Minnesota, Wisconsin or Michigan. This time, the tests found a close match. Wolves from that area are known to have coyote DNA in their genes. This accounts for the match with coyote DNA in the initial tests.

Lots of people were skeptical when we announced results from the first round of testing, said Beringer. We were too. But when you are trying to unravel a biological puzzle like this one, you take things one step at a time and go where the science leads you. This animal appeared to be very different from the western wolf samples it was compared with, but when we compared it with wolf DNA from the Great Lake states we found a match.

When asked how a Great Lakes wolf got to Missouri, Beringer noted that wolves from northern states have turned up in Missouri before. The most recent case occurred in 2001. It involved an 80-pound timber wolf killed by a landowner in Grundy County. The man mistook the wolf for a coyote, but discovered his mistake when he found the animal wore a radio collar and an ear tag linking it to Michigans Upper Peninsula, more than 600 miles away. He notified MDC, which was able to confirm its origin with Michigan officials.


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## hunting man (Mar 2, 2005)

I like to hear a CO tell someone, "If you make a mistake, just call us and we will work with you".

I would not give up my right to remain silent. I will not be calling in a mistake if I make one. It's my right.


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## Bearboy (Feb 4, 2009)

The Carroll County Accident?:lol::lol::lol:


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## ericzerka24 (Aug 12, 2010)

hunting man said:


> I like to hear a CO tell someone, "If you make a mistake, just call us and we will work with you".
> 
> I would not give up my right to remain silent. I will not be calling in a mistake if I make one. It's my right.


Lol...Im right there with ya brother!


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Someone that says they made a mistake and thought they were shooting a coyote verses 100# wolf probably should be in the woods hunting anyway. I suppose they would say the same thing if they shot another hunter that they thought was a deer, which has happened.


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## youp50 (Jan 14, 2011)

There is a man named Rolf Peterson. He is some kind of professor at Michigan Tech. He is involved in the Ilse Royal wolf thing. (Sounds like the wolves of Isle Royal may be on the way out, few adult females.) He is often treated as a wolf guru by the press and intellectual crowd. 

Perhaps his writings will help you understand something. 

I think that more wolves are killed by the indigent population of Upper Michigan than they are credited with. There are many very good woodsmen that know how to shoot and shut their mouths. The same people know that they can turn off a collar the same way they turned off the bearer of the collar.

Does anyone remember 30 years ago when the DNR would use the public media to warn people to keep their dogs confined in the spring? They would say that even lap dogs could stress a deer to death in the early spring.

Brett Gustafson is one heck of a fine warden. If I were to be implicated in the killing of a wolf, I would prefer some young wet behind the ears warden investigate.


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## Bearboy (Feb 4, 2009)

I met the guy that shot the wolf at the predator hunt. I understand he made an error. I know his relatives real well and I believe it 100%. The Missouri coyote that turned out to be a wolf from the great lakes is real interesting. If you read the article it says wolves from that region have coyote DNA. So did he shoot a coyote or a wolf? Are any of our wolves really wolves? I would be looking for a lawyer...in fact perhaps that would be a good court challenge by sportsmens groups. Do coyotes have wolf DNA or visa versa? If Missouri coyotes rarely exceed 30 lbs., what are we hunting and trapping legally?


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## ericzerka24 (Aug 12, 2010)

They're both wild dogs either way. I just wish it wasn't a federal issue and the people of the UP that are dealing with the situation had some kind of say in the issue. It is really too bad...

My father talked to a conservation officer up there last year and he told him exact words "There is only one way to take care of the issue and that is all I'm going to say". You know there is a problem when the CO says something like that...


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## U of M Fan (May 8, 2005)

Where did the Iron county incident take place? I never heard about that one.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

> Two Dogs Taken By Wolves This Month In Iron, Ashland Counties
> 
> Hunting beagle and pet collie; two separate wolf packs
> ARTICLE | MARCH 29, 2011 - 6:35PM | ASHLAND CURRENT
> ...


*For the full story click on the link.*

http://ashlandcurrent.com/article/11/03/29/two-dogs-taken-wolves-month-iron-ashland-counties


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