# Study on Salmon in Grand River



## addictivefishing12345 (Sep 18, 2017)

Recently I looked at a study the DNR conducted at the Webber Dam. They looked at the amount of salmon making it up through there the river as well as the effectiveness of the stocking. From what I read if I'm correct they had a sensor set in the fish ladder at the Webber Dam. This sensor would set off a camera that would take a picture of whatever fish was passing through the fish ladder. The DNR would identify the fish whether it be a Coho salmon, Chinook salmon or some other type of fish. They would begin this September first and end this around December. They also looked at angler catch rates as well as the number of people fishing on random days. The study was done in 2008 and the DNR found that 1,575 Coho salmon made it up through the fish ladder as well as 233 Chinook salmon. If you look at the amount of Coho salmon they stocking in the previous years to find the year class that would be running in 2008, it showed they stocked around 200,000 salmon in Lansing. That means that 0.78% of the salmon stocked made it back up to the Webber Dam. Not even 1% made it back up through the stocking. Looking at more recent stocking you the fish that would make it up would be around 300 maybe 400 making it back up to Webber Dam this year and even less making it further up. After this, it would leave very few getting far upstream. I don't fish the Grand River much and this year is my first year trying for salmon. Yesterday I finally saw a salmon in the Lansing area and almost had it, but do these numbers sound right to the fisherman who are more familiar with the Grand River and the salmon that run in it.


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## danthebuilder (Nov 22, 2011)

If you would post in the fish ladder updates thread. It was created by a guy who works for the DNR. He can probably help you better than anyone else. He probably worked on or even wrote on the study if he was working for them in 2008. He probably has even worked on some updated stuff since then. He also replied to your other thread. His name is wilsonm.

Saying all that. Your math is probably correct. Small planted fish have a terrible survival rate.


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## fishinfever (Feb 14, 2005)

I think this might be the report you are talking about and thought everyone would like to take a look. Very interesting.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/2009-78_301386_7.pdf
Tight lines,
FF


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## gatorman841 (Mar 4, 2010)

fishinfever said:


> I think this might be the report you are talking about and thought everyone would like to take a look. Very interesting.
> http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/2009-78_301386_7.pdf
> Tight lines,
> FF


Thankyou for posting very interesting report


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

Since they quit stocking the majority above Webber, I have seen a much stronger run of coho overall. They stock them in Lyons now (and for the last few years) and the runs have been pretty strong, though a lot of them probably hang up in the area where they were stocked. Kudos to the DNR for moving the stocking to where us sportsmen get bigger returns for our money, as it was my opinion that Webber Dam and impoundment took a major toll on traveling smolts. 

I checked out Portland dam after I picked up my son from daycare yesterday, the river is still running 70 degrees, and I only saw one salmon porpoise above the dam. There were a few guys catching bass and sunfish (nice sunfish too). With it being an exceptionally warm September most of the fish that I saw and fished this year were piled at any cool water they could find. I went to a couple of those spots to check the spots I was having success this past weekend and the fish were gone. I know a lot of fish died of heat stress, but the others went somewhere... 

So, I poked around a few places with slightly cooler water and found a bit of success. Interesting how a few cool nights will move the fish, even if the water temps only drop a couple degrees during the night.


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## Jay Wesley (Mar 2, 2009)

We moved the majority down to Lyons and some to Rogue. We would like to move some of Lyons below 6th street. We are still videoing fish movement through Webber to see what these stocking changes do.


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## MickL (Dec 16, 2003)

I'm wondering what's the assumed effect/benefit(s) of moving some to below 6th st.


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## addictivefishing12345 (Sep 18, 2017)

I'm not very good with salmon but the DNR moving the stocking downstream does seem much better for the fishery. The fish they stock in Lansing have such a poor success rate of running back up to Lansing. They have to go down tons of dams and the warm water as well as a number of predators that they have on there way downstream. I think stocking them downstream would be much better they have fewer dams to go down fewer predators since there is less water they have to cover to get back to Lake Michigan. Maybe I'm wrong but if they stock them downstream although most will stay downstream once they reached where they were stocked many would probably make it up to Lansing compared to the few that make it up now and you would have much larger numbers of fish. This would mean more fish in the river overall. The DNR just can't stock too many because of the alewife population declining and they definitely don't want a repeat of what happened on Lake Huron.


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## 357Maximum (Nov 1, 2015)

Whatever the DNR fishery folks are doing with the Grand River Coho, it is working. Changing the dump in spot from Lansing to Lyons seems to have worked in my book. Little salmon that get ate by walleye/pike/bass, etc in the upper reaches on their way downstream do not return. Little fish that die from getting boiled on their way to the lake, do not return either.........can it be that simple? Seems that way to me. If those same folks think that dumping more of the total a little farther downstream will make it even better, I for one think we should listen to them folks and give it the ol college try. The last change in stocking points worked phenomenally....so why not giver a whirl?


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## danthebuilder (Nov 22, 2011)

357Maximum said:


> Whatever the DNR fishery folks are doing with the Grand River Coho, it is working. Changing the dump in spot from Lansing to Lyons seems to have worked in my book. Little salmon that get ate by walleye/pike/bass, etc in the upper reaches on their way downstream do not return. Little fish that die from getting boiled on their way to the lake, do not return either.........can it be that simple? Seems that way to me. If those same folks think that dumping more of the total a little farther downstream will make it even better, I for one think we should listen to them folks and give it the ol college try. The last change in stocking points worked phenomenally....so why not giver a whirl?


I agree with what the DNR did and the reasoning behind it. The actual actual results though are not that simple. This year was just a great year for cohos.


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## 357Maximum (Nov 1, 2015)

danthebuilder said:


> I agree with what the DNR did and the reasoning behind it. The actual actual results though are not that simple. This year was just a great year for cohos.



I would call two out of the last three years "great". Last year was a bit tough for me, but the other two are better than I have seen EVER, and I have fished the Grand pretty much my whole life. It might be just that simple? I am not sure, hence the ?????????????????????? marks. I will listen as you complicate it though, I am all ears. :lol:


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## danthebuilder (Nov 22, 2011)

I was just trying to help you from turning your local fishery into an even bigger circus by implying that coho fishing elsewhere around the state has been great too.


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## 357Maximum (Nov 1, 2015)

There is plenty of Grand River to go around, just like there are plenty of rivers in Michigan to fish. You are correct though, there was coho everywhere this year, just like there should be next year and the year after.......fingers crossed. If the fisheries biologists and the DNR think they can make it better in the Grand by moving stocking sites around why not let them try? On a normal year I spend most of my time on a tributary of the Grand, the water there was just too damned warm this year with the early run/conditions though...........and they died. The eagles/*****/etc were more than happy to clean up the stench from all them dead coho however. I do not fish the popular googan/snagger access sites that much for a reason, more coho will not change that. It will only make my little spots better I think. I do know that if the average size of the coho in all the rivers keep getting bigger I am going to have upsize my leader or petition the state for some kokanee though. :lol:


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## MickL (Dec 16, 2003)

The Grand and it's tribs is a long fishery. What's good for one part of the system might not be good for all parts. I'm concerned what moving more stocking to the lower end might do to the upper end. I fished some spots in the Portland to Lansing stretch this fall and caught none and saw only a couple. I think DNR is doing the right thing by making additional fish counts at Webber before making any decision about moving more stocking downstream. And, unfortunately, even that doesn't give a full picture of what's happening near the upper end.
I like when Mike Wilson gives us fish counts when they clean the ladders. This is at least some info about what's going on upstream (in addition to the weekly DNR fish report).


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## 357Maximum (Nov 1, 2015)

MickL said:


> The Grand and it's tribs is a long fishery. What's good for one part of the system might not be good for all parts. I'm concerned what moving more stocking to the lower end might do to the upper end. I fished some spots in the Portland to Lansing stretch this fall and caught none and saw only a couple. I think DNR is doing the right thing by making additional fish counts at Webber before making any decision about moving more stocking downstream. And, unfortunately, even that doesn't give a full picture of what's happening near the upper end.



I had the same experience as you when I tried up farther. I do think that big slug of hot 75+ degree water above Webber had a lot to do with that not so normal issue. My normal trib suffered the very same issue. Those that went up there died en masse and slowly tumbled downstream. How many died above Webber and went unseen because of the abnormally deep water for the Grand in that stretch? I would still like to know WHY all them coho ran out of the big lake so early and into hot pea soup in the first place personally. I think MaNature fell asleep at the wheel or she was trying to fatten the **** and eagles up for the upcoming winter???? A lot of them coho were simply clinging to life in any cooler water they could find, spots like that cool creek spot where the guys got busted for netting nearly 50 fish one evening. I also know that wading wet and letting my bare skin tell me where the cooler water was coming from worked. On this years odd early run, cooler water played a HUGE role in finding fish that were alive enough to actually bite. A lot of the fish I visually saw in some of the warmer spots were gasping for oxygen like a fat man that just ran a marathon, many others we lying dead with pristine and tight skein inside of them. I saw more dead silver and unspawned coho this year than I ever have...all it took was a hot water low O2 spot to do so.


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## MickL (Dec 16, 2003)

......I would still like to know WHY all them coho ran out of the big lake so early......

Maybe the river water temp drop near the mouth (near Eastmanville) from 71* to 65* during the 1st week of Sept was enough to get them going.


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## riverbob (Jan 11, 2011)

MickL said:


> ......I would still like to know WHY all them coho ran out of the big lake so early......
> 
> Maybe the river water temp drop near the mouth (near Eastmanville) from 71* to 65* during the 1st week of Sept was enough to get them going.


 Me too...n now i wonder if the early coho will effect the fall steel head run


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## 357Maximum (Nov 1, 2015)

MickL said:


> ......I would still like to know WHY all them coho ran out of the big lake so early......
> 
> Maybe the river water temp drop near the mouth (near Eastmanville) from 71* to 65* during the 1st week of Sept was enough to get them going.


I am sure that plays a big part for the September fish, but what about the mid August coho? I am still stumped.


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## MickL (Dec 16, 2003)

357Maximum said:


> I am sure that plays a big part for the September fish, but what about the mid August coho? I am still stumped.


I didn't know about the Aug run.... i didn't fish for coho that early.... but maybe i should have.


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## 357Maximum (Nov 1, 2015)

MickL said:


> I didn't know about the Aug run.... i didn't fish for coho that early.... but maybe i should have.



It's been a crazy year, still not sure what to make of it all. Color me stumped. :lol: If I had it to do over again I would have spent a week on that river absolutely loaded with coho up north and west of here.


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## slowpaya (Oct 23, 2011)

I'm totally befuddled over the whole situation,no more large batches of hos out there hidin in the lake somewhere for a fall run???or are most of them laying on the river bottom???if not on bottom all boot material???


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## slowpaya (Oct 23, 2011)

MickL said:


> I didn't know about the Aug run.... i didn't fish for coho that early.... but maybe i should have.


don't believe the august run was grand related,mostly above white river


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## 357Maximum (Nov 1, 2015)

slowpaya said:


> I'm totally befuddled over the whole situation,no more large batches of hos out there hidin in the lake somewhere for a fall run???or are most of them laying on the river bottom???



Only time will tell. I think it is pretty much over, but I have high hopes of being super wrong about that.


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## MickL (Dec 16, 2003)

slowpaya said:


> don't believe the august run was grand related,mostly above white river


ok, thanks


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## 357Maximum (Nov 1, 2015)

slowpaya said:


> don't believe the august run was grand related,mostly above white river



There was some coho in the Grand in August, I missed it because my ******* Uncle is a tight lipped ****...A.K.A a normal fisherman. :lol:


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## addictivefishing12345 (Sep 18, 2017)

Gonna try this Monday for more salmon in the lansing area last week only seen one in lansing. Anyone hear of any fish making it up there and not looking for spots just curious on the number of fish up there? The weather has been on and off for the salmon it's good the river got some rain but this hot weather needs to stop.


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## slowpaya (Oct 23, 2011)

t here was no large run of coho in early august like the northern rivers,riverbob started getting them end of august,he is the go-to barometer as far as I'm concerned


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## riverbob (Jan 11, 2011)

slowpaya said:


> t here was no large run of coho in early august like the northern rivers,riverbob started getting them end of august,he is the go-to barometer as far as I'm concerned


 Thanks, but i ain't all that, i just have had a lot of time too fish. (being the boss gave me lots of time to do the things i really enjoy)


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## slowpaya (Oct 23, 2011)

don't be shy bob,you are all that.do miss the dog tho


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## riverbob (Jan 11, 2011)

Ya me too, but i did get a memo from puppyville, buddy said lots of fish, n i should see the size of the squirrels they got there


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