# Harsens kill numbers



## john warren (Jan 25, 2005)

Mr. 16 gauge said:


> Firing random shots is essentially what skybusters are doing.....I can't count the number of times I've been frustrated by ducks working my decoys when a shot rings out a half mile away on the other side of the area and they flare....
> 
> Skybusting isn't illegal.....what type of shot is "too far"? Some guys can make those long shots; most of us can't. The whole waterfowl firearms industry is geared to making "long shots"....don't believe me? Look at every damn add for ammo/firearms in the past 20 years: 3 1/2" shells & guns, hevishot, new types of shot....all are promoted to "extend your range".
> Some bloke sees a guy in the next cornfield take a poke at one & scratch it down, and he decides to try it himself......after all, if he can do it, then so can I (or so goes the mentality)......how many cripples are born until the guy gets the idea that he can't do it consistantly?
> ...


 there is that. and then theres guys like me that are shooting 2 3/4 shells because if its too far away to hit with that, i'm most likely going to wound or miss it anyway
i tihnk it all boils down to being a gentleman in the field.


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## goosehunter31 (Sep 22, 2009)

john warren said:


> not sure that any given tool used for hunting is a bad thing. besides, a lot of people like myself enjoy reading about others success , even though we have no intention of hunting there.


I don't have problem with people holding dead stuff and bragging about it I love seeing people with success when they go out and hunt my problem was what I said in my first post. That's all


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## TheWrench (Jan 29, 2009)

fsamie1 said:


> Hunted solo today since my freeloaders could not get the gun and shells and join me. :lol: Picked a lousy corn even I was in top 10 out of about 35. First light, had shot at 2 mallards and got one. could have had a few more shots at 4-5 teals if I knew where they are coming from. Not much decoyed after first hour because jack holes at next corn shot at everything at first sighting. Do not why they just do not go shoot skeet, and or sporting clay, it is probably more fun for them. Here is the kill charts for last sat, sun, and Monday. I will be there tomorrow with all freeloaders hoping for a good draw. I will be posting kill chart whenever I go there to give you a heads up. If you cannot read the number just zoom in.


Is it just me or is this guy always stirring the ***** pot...
It was your choice to hunt there, I'm pretty sure nobody was begging you to hunt at the HI draw. I've been hunting there since I was a kid these issues you keep revisting are nothing new. Keep posting kill number sheets that's helping. There is absolutely nothing you or the DNR can do about a person's choice to take a poor shot. Just because you see a bird in their general area doesn't necessarily mean that is what they are shooting at. There is one choice you can control though, hunting at a managed unit. Don't Go and your problems are solved...


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## deadduck365 (Nov 5, 2010)

TheWrench said:


> Is it just me or is this guy always stirring the ***** pot...
> It was your choice to hunt there, I'm pretty sure nobody was begging you to hunt at the HI draw. I've been hunting there since I was a kid these issues you keep revisting are nothing new. Keep posting kill number sheets that's helping. There is absolutely nothing you or the DNR can do about a person's choice to take a poor shot. Just because you see a bird in their general area doesn't necessarily mean that is what they are shooting at. There is one choice you can control though, hunting at a managed unit. Don't Go and your problems are solved...



Yep&#128263;


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## fsamie1 (Mar 8, 2008)

do the same yourself, if you do not like my HI kill report, do not look at them. I am going to post them every time I go there to give others a heads up. Maybe if we get more good hunter participate, skybusters will be in minority. after all, it is a bingo, no matter what info I post I cannot make them have a good draw. There are lots of people who travel long distance for the draw and I am sure they appreciate my kill chart post. Good thing when I go there and pick an area, there is one less skybuster around. seems like most real duck hunters are given up with managed area and I do not think that is the solution. Harsens and other managed areas do make their own rules such as no mojo, and 18 shell limit. they can also make skybusting an illegal activity also. COs are standing on the dike and checking your shell numbers, why can they stand on the dike and minor skybustign once a while and issue tickets? If some of you have thrown the towel and live with way things are, please do not criticize others who still care and want to make duck hunting in managed areas a pleasant activity.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

So glad we got rid of the kill charts. No one reports accurately....never did. So posting the chart helps nobody.

I know many that would take horrible zones in a bad draw and fill out full cards...or turn in someone else's birds (from another zone that actually smoked them) just to mess the system. It's an out dated system and helps nobody.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

I think it's sad that people would stoop to lying on your kill cards just to throw others off. It's public land, not owned by any one person. I understand people get upset that someone doesn't scout and can come in and hunt the hot zone BUT it is what it is. Not everyone lives close to a bingo unit. Sometimes it's not that easy.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

craigrh13 said:


> I think it's sad that people would stoop to lying on your kill cards just to throw others off. It's public land, not owned by any one person. I understand people get upset that someone doesn't scout and can come in and hunt the hot zone BUT it is what it is. Not everyone lives close to a bingo unit. Sometimes it's not that easy.


Doesn't matter what people should or shouldn't do...it's a matter of what works and what doesn't. Recording kills and displaying them to everyone will never give you true data. It's a fact...like it or not.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Bad enough the bingos are a canned hunt already...but telling everyone where to go to kill em just cracks me up. To each his own but if you got to look at a kill chart to be successful you might want to rethink your hobby.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

The only thing a kill chart does is point out where the really bad and really good zones are. All the rest is moot. It might help someone from say picking the marsh zones on Wahl rd when there is obviousky much better hunting.


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## bigbore450 (Apr 27, 2012)

Just checking what is the legal max shooting distance at which a duck may be taken? 30 yards? Cannot find anything published. Sky busting is never going to stop. It comes down to a hunters ethics. Do I like sky busting NO. CO's have no way to stop this, nor the time. Just like when some $$$hole unloads his smooth bore 870 at a 10 pt buck running across a field at 200 yards.


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## Fowlersduckhunter (Oct 28, 2011)

I'm confident out to 30 yards with my 870 Wingmaster and 3" Federal #3's. Out to 50 for geese with my Browning BPS 10 gauge and 3 1/2" BB.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

craigrh13 said:


> The only thing a kill chart does is point out where the really bad and really good zones are. All the rest is moot. It might help someone from say picking the marsh zones on Wahl rd when there is obviousky much better hunting.


And I think someone should pick the marsh zone on Wahl and learn for himself like everyone else. If I go hunt the bay, whos gonna tell me where I will probably waste my time....where's my kill chart at the launch.

I went into town here in nodak and asked them where they post their kill charts at...they looked at me funny.

Its called hunting.

we post kill numbers by field at the end of the season. It serves the same exact purpose and you get true information reported during season.

If you're new, all you have to do is lookup last year's info...and ask a few questions at the draw. Do yer research before you go...you would do the research if you are goin out of state..or U.P. or canada....should be no different at a draw.


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## Boyd (Aug 19, 2006)

How do you "scout" a managed area? If you hunt a zone you can be a mile away from another zone. It's hard to tell what field they are going to. It's called Bingo for a reason. I think that people that lie should have their privileges revoked for the year. There are so many wrong things that happen at the bingo with locals. You have guys hunting solo in 2-4 man zones all the time, too many hens, lying about kills. I've seen people come out with a lot of birds and report 1 or 2. I've never said anything about that but birds work certain zones and if you hit bingo that is the bonus of it. So that everyone gets a chance and not just the guys that hunt it everyday and have an inner circle that only tell each other what happened. Don't get me wrong I have met a lot of good guys at the draw too and chat with just about anyone. Good luck out there boys. Some people actually have to work and don't have time to scout and hunt everyday and that is why if like the bingo.


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## Duckhunter66 (Nov 24, 2013)

AH...the only way a single gets into a 2-4 man zone is if there are not enough parties to fill the place and there are leftovers....other than that they are 1 or 1-4 person zones. 
And as far as the "locals" what do you expect, they are all part of the HIWHA club or livenon the island and spend time and money out there every year to improve the area....cannot say that for a lot of people that come out and never give back

For reporting the birds..Yes that is a problem...but only the CO'S can correct that...the guys behind the counter do not have the authority to check your boat or truck


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## lastflight (Aug 16, 2005)

Boyd said:


> How do you "scout" a managed area? If you hunt a zone you can be a mile away from another zone. It's hard to tell what field they are going to. It's called Bingo for a reason. I think that people that lie should have their privileges revoked for the year.


That's why it's called scouting, not hunting. If all of your scouting consists of what you see while you sit in your field, you are obviously missing a lot of the picture. If you are going to scout, bring binoculars and leave your gun at home. Drive around, hike down ***** (that you are allowed to be on), and watch what the birds are doing.

I hunted Shiawassee last weekend. There was a CO behind the counter checking the names of everyone getting in the draw. There were several people who had not turned in their cards for previous hunts. They all received tickets on the spot.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Boyd said:


> How do you "scout" a managed area? If you hunt a zone you can be a mile away from another zone. It's hard to tell what field they are going to. It's called Bingo for a reason. I think that people that lie should have their privileges revoked for the year. There are so many wrong things that happen at the bingo with locals. You have guys hunting solo in 2-4 man zones all the time, too many hens, lying about kills. I've seen people come out with a lot of birds and report 1 or 2. I've never said anything about that but birds work certain zones and if you hit bingo that is the bonus of it. So that everyone gets a chance and not just the guys that hunt it everyday and have an inner circle that only tell each other what happened. Don't get me wrong I have met a lot of good guys at the draw too and chat with just about anyone. Good luck out there boys. Some people actually have to work and don't have time to scout and hunt everyday and that is why if like the bingo.


So because you work everyday and have no time to scout...you need a kill chart that is grossly inaccurate. 

C'mon people... it's not hard to scout any zone in any managed area. It's just harder than reading a kill chart.


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## Mr. 16 gauge (Jan 26, 2000)

With re: to what Shi kid said about the charts:

Here is something to think about. Suppose you have a hot field, and people have been taking a fair number of ducks out of this field steadily for several days.......numbers look good. Now, for the next 3 hunts, the numbers vary from zero to 1-2 birds per hunt.
Birds quit using the field, right? Maybe not.....maybe the field was inhabited by some very poor shots or skybusters that just couldn't connect with all the birds that were coming in on them. I've seen it happen in neighboring fields when I used to hunt the corn. But the "numbers" now say that the field isn't any good.
In the same vein: How do you know that those marsh areas that haven't been hunted all season aren't holding a supply of mallards or blacks or pintails that just moved in from up north? You don't (and you won't).....unless you try and hunt it.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Also boyd. The managed area "bingos" were created as bird migration areas/stops on the fly way with the intent to create some food/refuge for birds and possibly hunting opportunity. 

No where did it say these were intended for guys working so much they couldn't scout and we need to make it as easy as possible.

I detect some animosity toward locals. Kill charts or lack there of never gonna change that animosity. 

Entitlements...that what I get from this thread. Lotta people think someone owes them...and try to justify it. Some of you should re read your own threads.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

What's the difference between kill charts and workers/friends telling locals all the info in the name of scouting?


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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

Helps to move some of the crowd away from in front of the counter so that others can register.:lol:


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## deadduck365 (Nov 5, 2010)

Big Frank 25 said:


> Helps to move some of the crowd away from in front of the counter so that others can register.:lol:



Yep that. 


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## goosehunter31 (Sep 22, 2009)

Big Frank 25 said:


> Helps to move some of the crowd away from in front of the counter so that others can register.:lol:


Lol its even worse cause every guy is jammed against the walls and won't let you get through so you can sign your cards haha


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## fishing extreme (Feb 13, 2005)

I hunt Harsens very often, as well as the St Clair flats a s awhile, and can tell you two strong facts:

1. You've got some serious balls if you plan to post kill charts on here frequently, especially after everyone else is paying $14 a pop to ride the ferry, 

and,

2. The ONLY WAY to ever limit the sky buster mentality that absolutely RUINS the hunting experience there is through ENFORCEMENT of shell limits. Whether the limits are 18, 25 or 6, it doesn't matter if it's not enforced. I can say from experience that enforcement of any rule or law is the only way to make it work. Want an example? Drive through Michigan on the highway, and watch everyone blow by you at 90 MPH. Then drive into Ohio and see everyone seems to stick right at 70....

The DNR, with limited funding and manpower, can simply not enforce the laws they set. Ever hunt Deckers? Go there about dark and listen to the A-Holes blast away a half hour after shooting times. Again, no enforcement. 

That's the answer.


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## Puddler-Hunter (Aug 25, 2010)

goosehunter31 said:


> Lol its even worse cause every guy is jammed against the walls and won't let you get through so you can sign your cards haha


That's why I bring a clipboard and my own pen don't have to worry about finding a spot along the walls. I also have some notes on it too if I ever need to refer to spots regarding wind direction etc.etc. Someone here showed me that trick . You get funny looks sometimes too but it works for me......lol:lol: So if you see a guy walking around with a clipboard it could be me.....


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## deadduck365 (Nov 5, 2010)

Puddler-Hunter said:


> That's why I bring a clipboard and my own pen don't have to worry about finding a spot along the walls. I also have some notes on it too if I ever need to refer to spots regarding wind direction etc.etc. Someone here showed me that trick . You get funny looks sometimes too but it works for me......lol:lol: So if you see a guy walking around with a clipboard it could be me.....



I will say hello next time. Lol. 


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## Mr. 16 gauge (Jan 26, 2000)

I usually carry a clipboard also, same as Puddlehunter.....however, I had an interesting experience.
About 5 years ago, some old guy saw me standing by the tally boards with my clipboard, which had one of those calculators on it. I really didn't use the calculator for anything; IIRC, the battery was even dead. The clipboard was a freebee from work that was give to me by a drug rep. Anyway, this old fart comes up to the tally board to look it over, sees my clipboard with calculator, and he comes UNGLUED!!!!! Starts yellling at me and calling me every vile name in the book and starts accusing me of "Using a computer to beat the draw!!!" 

HUH?!  How the hell can you "beat the draw" when their pulling ping pong balls out of a minnow bucket?! At first I just laughed at him, thinking he was joking.....but he was DEAD SERIOUS and I thought he was going to try and take a swing at me.

I now do my best to keep me and my clipboard on the OTHER side of the building, away from the tally boards.:lol:

Some traditions/habits are hard to break, but hey...........if something that worthless is that important that your gonna take a swing at a total stranger (for nothing), go ahead and keep it......

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go program my calculator (er....I mean computer) with the image that the O.P. posted in the first post.
SEE YOU ALL AT THE DRAW ON SATURDAY!!!!!!!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: (I'll probably be drawn first or second......)


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## Boyd (Aug 19, 2006)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> Also boyd. The managed area "bingos" were created as bird migration areas/stops on the fly way with the intent to create some food/refuge for birds and possibly hunting opportunity.
> 
> No where did it say these were intended for guys working so much they couldn't scout and we need to make it as easy as possible.
> 
> ...



No animosity. I wished I didn't live an hour away but I do. If I'm driving out there I'm going to hunt. It doesn't bother me if I don't kill a bunch of ducks. Is it fun, he'll yeah but I still have fun and rarely get skunked. I will hunt the marsh and bays as well. I've even heard that the locals would all sign up for deer permits for the lotto and then none of them would even hunt. To me that's a real dick move. I'd even be willing to be that parties split up 2 times the chance at a draw. If you guys all love public land so much then go out and stay away from bingo. Like someone said, just because a zone seems like it slowed down that might not be the case. Just because you get a hot zone doesn't mean limits. Neighboring zones can stop that real quick with sky busting along with other things. Like I said before I have met lots of nice locals but now it sounds like others are entitled. If you are out scouting 2 days a week how many days do you actually hunt? Or do you scout Saturday and just hunt Sunday? 

I like the kill sheets, why do others hunt the bingo? Easy, close proximity to ducks, marked zones. I for one don't think it's all that easy. It's a lot easier in the flats rather then walking through the mud in the corn or marsh. The truth is hunting and hanging out with friends is the reason and you never know what is going to happen on any given day. Kid, since you hunt shiawassee was does it matter what harsens posts?


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Want to stop skybusting? The longer the shot, the better the chance of crippling. As soon as they cripple one, see if they chase it. If they don't, call the RAP line as ask they be busted for wanton waste.

What I don't understand is the lack of enforcement at the managed areas. I've seen Muskegon patrolled. But fennville you can see every zone from the road and there's eight-ten per mile. An hour or two of walking puts you in contact with 20-30 hunters. Besides, once word gets out, the bottom feeders will move on. Yet I've hunted every zone around the perimeter except a couple and half the numbered zones and I've only seen the c o out there three times, twice on rap calls and once to throw me out of a parking lot at night while we were scouting as we were "camping". Really, you've got everyone's names on the cards and everyone lined up in close quarters: if that's not target rich what is?


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## fsamie1 (Mar 8, 2008)

*DO NOT READ IF YOU GET UPSET*

there was a grand total of 12 parties at the bingo today. Most of the shooting came from 28-30 zones. some shooting at 13-26 area and north of the east corn. These charts are intended to give people who travel hours to get to draw a heads up. Todays chart is posted here also, I took a picture of it on the counter.:evilsmile


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## deadduck365 (Nov 5, 2010)

Looks like normal numbers for this time of the year. 


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## Dead Bird (Oct 2, 2001)

fsamie1 said:


> *DO NOT READ IF YOU GET UPSET*
> 
> there was a grand total of 12 parties at the bingo today. Most of the shooting came from 28-30 zones. some shooting at 13-26 area and north of the east corn. These charts are intended to give people who travel hours to get to draw a heads up. Todays chart is posted here also, I took a picture of it on the counter.:evilsmile
> 
> ...


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## PrickerPoint (Oct 6, 2014)

I kinda like seeing the kill charts, not because I'm "cyber scouting" but I just like to look at them and see how everyone is doing... Also it gives me something to look at when I'm at work.


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## waxico (Jan 21, 2008)

Anyone way behind last years numbers at this time?

We're 50% light.

We killed 12 last weekend out of the exact same spot we cashed in 27 the same weekend last year.


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## goosehunter31 (Sep 22, 2009)

waxico said:


> Anyone way behind last years numbers at this time?
> 
> We're 50% light.
> 
> We killed 12 last weekend out of the exact same spot we cashed in 27 the same weekend last year.


4 hunts were at 56 ducks were 8 ahead of last year. Got 9 days straight off starting tomorrow. So we shall see how next week pans out.


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## waxico (Jan 21, 2008)

You hunting SE Michigan?


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

I too enjoy looking at the kill sheets. Just to see how everyone is doing. They have not really told any secrets. I've never hunted HI but I would like to make a trip there this year. It's a 2.5 hr drive for me. I just would like to give it a try.


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## goosehunter31 (Sep 22, 2009)

waxico said:


> You hunting SE Michigan?


First 2 hunts were up by the bridge and last two hunts have been se, 15 and 16 birds shot the two hunts here


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## goosehunter31 (Sep 22, 2009)

craigrh13 said:


> I too enjoy looking at the kill sheets. Just to see how everyone is doing. They have not really told any secrets. I've never hunted HI but I would like to make a trip there this year. It's a 2.5 hr drive for me. I just would like to give it a try.


Make the drive regardless everyday can change drastically. I'd recommend hunting a weekday if possible. A whole lot less traffic. You will enjoy the hunt regardless of when come up tho.


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## deadduck365 (Nov 5, 2010)

goosehunter31 said:


> 4 hunts were at 56 ducks were 8 ahead of last year. Got 9 days straight off starting tomorrow. So we shall see how next week pans out.



2 good draws can make a difference. Lol. 2 hunts 2 middle draws and 4 ducks. Better than no ducks. Besides great time with my pops. The only time of the year we make time to spend together. Good luck this week. 


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