# Opinions on what is the best bird dog.



## pporonto (Oct 8, 2003)

First things first... I picked a Vizsla because they are great,loyal, loving, shorthair, funny and great with kids... My dog is the sweetest dog I have ever met. I chose her because I wanted a hunting dog with these personality traits that had shorthair... I like GSP, but have known a few who did not like kids, and that had me concerned. However, If I was going to choose the best birddog, I would probaly go with English Setter... Never met one who was not crazy about birds and I really like the way the work...

Paul

P.S I am sure that English Pointers are great, but I have never seen them at work and do not know anyone who has owned one.


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## oleman (Oct 2, 2005)

Grouseman2

Mike

had a computer crash a couple months ago lost all my pics.
Here's one after a hunt about a month ago...I'll try to get a action shot next time out.He'll will be 4 this spring











Mike at home he's the wife's hound


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## chrisu (Dec 7, 2004)

Hey Omega - I think we traded messages about a year ago...How has Skyler been doing? I am still looking to get a Weim (after the og living with us now moves into the next life - doesn't earn the D on dog, and I love dogs...). Doing my part in birding - going on a pheasant hunt in March, but I am curious how your seasons have gone over the past year. I agree about the qualities of the Weim, the only static I get from the wife is about the size - she thinks they are a bit too large, but then againm she married me!:lol:


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## Worm Dunker (Sep 11, 2000)

Drifter Saver you want to see a picture of setters honoring. If you look at the feathers in the last two dogs you can see there is quite a cross wind so neithor sents the bird. This is son pointing, mother first back and cousain brining up the rear. This is why I went back to as close breeding on my fourth pup as I could find.


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## milmo1 (Nov 9, 2005)

I bought an English Setter because they are the class of the upland (see wd's pic previous). With their feathers flowing in the breeze as they are locked on point, there isn't a much prettier vision in the grouse woods. They are driven to hunt and a wonderful family dog. They don't have many health concerns. And, as for picking burrs, I don't. I just seperate the burr from the mass of hair, then clip the little bit of hair that it clings to. This makes the wife nuts, but it works for me and him. It's quick and he can't get a burr in the same patch of hair for a while.
What will I have next?
I'd like to try my hand at an Irish setter, or perhaps one of those pointing labs. But, more than likely, I'll have another E.S.


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## OldSchoolSpringer (Jun 20, 2005)

If someone asked me why I chose a Springer.
Assuming a well bred dog .
1.The relationship of Dog and handler actively working in unison.
2.The adrenalin rush of anticipation of the flush .
3.A good one works quickly leading into 1 and 2.
4.They Excel at everything except cold water ducks.
5.There generally very quiet dogs with minimal training.
6. A well bred ESS should have strong natural retrieve and soft mouth.
7.Biddable 
8.Great with Kids and love to be around people.
9.Can take intensive training pressure.
10.Once they are trained and understand they can do there job and have fun they are consistent pleasurable dog to hunt over. They due there job enthusiastically.


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## Hevi (May 18, 2004)

kek25 said:


> Meet Jake, the ultimate bird dog -- a pure blood setter with naturally short hair (not shaved). Nuff said.


Kinda like a Pointer with a Mullet. 

Good looking hound.


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## GSGrouser (Feb 6, 2005)

Aahhh.......
I see that this is a very lateral-minded group and not averse to tying a thread into twisty little knots.....<g>.

Nothing wrong with shorttails...for the average hunter.
I see a number of good ones every year. And even more that have the potential to make acceptable gundogs if their owners were more determined. Just the right sort of dogs for the utility-minded sportsman.
However........
There is a whole 'nother level of sport that requires a high desire dog with the characteristic style and elegance provided only by pointers and setters.
I like both but tend to keep setters for my personal dogs.

But the answer to the question is: The best dog kind of dog is the one that you're pleased to take home at the end of the day.

The real debate is about whether you slug down a canned beer or take the time to enjoy a sip of some fine single-malt......<g>.
That would be after attending to the mud and burrs.......<vbg>.


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

GSGrouser said:


> Aahhh.......
> I see that this is a very lateral-minded group and not averse to tying a thread into twisty little knots.....<g>.
> 
> Nothing wrong with shorttails...for the average hunter.
> ...


 
I bet you only hunt with SXS's and look down at those that shoot grouse over flushing dogs, careful, some day a shorthair might not only out find, point, retrieve, but kick your pansy setters ass, while the shorthairs owner out shoots you with his lowely Mossberg. 

Welcome to the site!

We like to have discussion here, but this is not our community....


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

Couple things.

Worm Dunker, My self hunters (read flushing dogs) put a lot more birds in the bag this season that your long tails.


Second not to start a fight, BIGSP set up the rules in the beginning of the thread.....

I agree with Timber, if you have trained 100's of shorttails and not seen a good one then some thing is not right.


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## Hevi (May 18, 2004)

Steelheadfred said:


> shorthairs owner out shoots you with his lowely Mossberg.


Hey! I might have a GSP, but I sure as hell don't have a Mossberg. 

Welcome to the sight GSGrouser, and if your Setter isn't getting a manicure or something, give it a scratch on the head for me.


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## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

Grouseman2 said:


> ??? This coming from a Setter guy? Scott is that you?


Yep, it's me. I was caught in a moment of weakness. 
Setters rate a very close second. I have no complaints with my setters for sure.


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## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

Steelheadfred said:


> I bet you only hunt with SXS's and look down at those that shoot grouse over flushing dogs,.......


So what's your point?
I knew there was reason you kept ducking me this year, that's ok, two of the best days I had this year were when you last minute cancelled on me.:lol:


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## kek25 (Jul 9, 2005)

Hevi said:


> Kinda like a Pointer with a Mullet.


 
Good one, Matt. I like that!


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

2ESRGR8 said:


> So what's your point?
> I knew there was reason you kept ducking me this year, that's ok, two of the best days I had this year were when you last minute cancelled on me.:lol:


My point is that if someone does not like pointing dogs with shortails I am sure they dont like flushing dogs.

Glad I was of assistance to you and your successful days. I hope next year that I can have better dog work they are just labs and I am just a rough shooter!


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## lowavenger96 (Dec 8, 2004)

Hevi said:


> Hey! I might have a GSP, but I sure as hell don't have a Mossberg.
> 
> Welcome to the sight GSGrouser, and if your Setter isn't getting a manicure or something, give it a scratch on the head for me.


 
I beleave there are several people on this site that have short hairs and mossbergs . What does it matter . My first gun purchase was a mossberg 500 pump . As that is what i could afford at the time . Now i have bought a Ruger red label 20ga . My dogs are far from perfect ! 


What re3ally matters is everytime i go out hunting i have a fun time and enjoy it . Even if for the whole day i dont pull the trigger .


Andy


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## HarleyP (Mar 4, 2004)

GSGrouser said:


> Aahhh.......
> I see that this is a very lateral-minded group and not averse to tying a thread into twisty little knots.....<g>.
> 
> Nothing wrong with shorttails...for the average hunter.
> ...



That's about the most arrogant post I've read on this site in a long time.... maybe ever. 

For the record I like darn near all bird dogs, it's their owner's that I question. 

So I guess the "real debate" is, is that dog's owner a dyckhead or not?

Welcome to the site... I guess.


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## Tujax (Mar 23, 2005)

GSGrouser said:


> Aahhh.......
> The real debate is about whether you slug down a canned beer or take the time to enjoy a sip of some fine single-malt......<g>.
> That would be after attending to the mud and burrs.......<vbg>.


I'll take the beer any day....







....Burr? What are those?....:evil:


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

Just for the record I dont think there is anything wrong with Mossbergs, it was more or less a compliment.


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## omega58 (Sep 3, 2003)

Lucky Dog said:


> I've got a 90 lb chessie that would dissagree with that. :evil:



Sorry, I'll correct that. . best guard dog of the "pointing dog" sporting world. . . now that statement is correct.


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## Double Gun (Feb 22, 2005)

I enjoy short tails and cold beer, can or bottle is fine. I'll pass on the mossbergs though.


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## oleman (Oct 2, 2005)

Folks thanks for the laughs---Had to clean my keyboard this morn after spitting coffee on it while reading these post.  :SHOCKED:


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## Tujax (Mar 23, 2005)

Double Gun said:


> I enjoy short tails and cold beer, can or bottle is fine. I'll pass on the mossbergs though.


Hey now I just bought a Mossberg 20ga.............for the 10 year old of course, fits him well and he dosn't know the difference.

Now if I can just keep him out of my beer I'll be allright!!!!! :SHOCKED: Damn dog just loves beer!!!


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## PahtridgeHunter (Sep 1, 2004)

GSGrouser said:


> Aahhh.......
> I see that this is a very lateral-minded group and not averse to tying a thread into twisty little knots.....<g>.
> 
> Nothing wrong with shorttails...for the average hunter.
> ...


A little word of advice here, G, because you're new here. Most of us like to discuss and debate just about anything in regards to bird dogs and shotguns, but you'll find that if you come with that kind of arrogance without establishing some type of a repoire, your not going to get much except a cold shoulder. I challenge you to look past your overinflated ego, and join the ranks. Welcome to M-S!


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## omega58 (Sep 3, 2003)

PahtridgeHunter said:


> A little word of advice here, G, because you're new here. Most of us like to discuss and debate just about anything in regards to bird dogs and shotguns, but you'll find that if you come with that kind of arrogance without establishing some type of a repoire, your not going to get much except a cold shoulder. I challenge you to look past your overinflated ego, and join the ranks. Welcome to M-S!


I like his post. . .not holding anything back! He'll fit right in and just confirm what we already know about "those setter guys":lol: 

Oh yeah, and he only hunts 1 to 2 days a year. . .must be getting out the burrs on the other days.:lol:


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## lowavenger96 (Dec 8, 2004)

PahtridgeHunter said:


> A little word of advice here, G, because you're new here. Most of us like to discuss and debate just about anything in regards to bird dogs and shotguns, but you'll find that if you come with that kind of arrogance without establishing some type of a repoire, your not going to get much except a cold shoulder. I challenge you to look past your overinflated ego, and join the ranks. Welcome to M-S!


 

Well said . Thank you PH


Andy


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## Drifter Saver (Sep 13, 2005)

omega58 said:


> I like his post. . .not holding anything back! He'll fit right in and just confirm what we already know about "those setter guys":lol:
> 
> Oh yeah, and he only hunts 1 to 2 days a year. . .must be getting out the burrs on the other days.:lol:


Probably still picking burrs out as we speak

For the record, I think my signature says it all. If it is a well trained dog, I will hunt behind it (just keep it out of my bed or the GSP's, Pointers, and maybe my wife will not like it)!

Mossberg's are great for wives and kids. I have to say that I stared with one, but now it has a rifled barrel on it and a scope (kills a lot of deer...can't beat it).


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## lowavenger96 (Dec 8, 2004)

Drifter Saver said:


> Probably still picking burrs out as we speak
> 
> For the record, I think my signature says it all. If it is a well trained dog, I will hunt behind it (just keep it out of my bed or the GSP's, Pointers, and maybe my wife will not like it)!
> 
> Mossberg's are great for wives and kids. I have to say that I stared with one, but now it has a rifled barrel on it and a scope (kills a lot of deer...can't beat it).


 
I have a rifled barrel and scope mount on my 500 it is a good starter gun . I also have a improved cyc barrel for it and really have never shot it . My first deer was taken with this gun at 50 yards droped it dead in it tracks . I t took me awhile to save up for a O/U so the mossberg had to due for awhile !


I'm not saying Mossberg is the greatest but it will work ...


As for dogs to dogs to each his own . 


Andy


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## bombcast (Sep 16, 2003)

Personality-wise I love springers. They are fun-loving, sometimes jsut plain goofy. I love the breed. That said, I have owned 2 and they are the last springers I'll own. My father-in-law is a professional dog trainer, and I was lucky enough to have been given a beautiful, sweet-tempered GSP bitch. I have fallen head over heels for her and the breed. 

She does everything I have asked her to do. She adjusts her gait to the grouse woods nicely- a methodical cruise basically, and she opens it up full throttle when we chase pheasants. I started waterfowling with her without any training except swimming after tennis balls and bumpers in Lk. Michigan, and she's retrieved dozens of ducks and geese in the past 2 years. I have learned to watch her when we duck hunt- 90% of the time she sees incoming birds before I do.


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## pporonto (Oct 8, 2003)

Steelheadfred said:


> I bet you only hunt with SXS's and look down at those that shoot grouse over flushing dogs, careful, some day a shorthair might not only out find, point, retrieve, but kick your pansy setters ass, while the shorthairs owner out shoots you with his lowely Mossberg.
> 
> Welcome to the site!
> 
> We like to have discussion here, but this is not our community....


Kush,Kush,Kush!!! 

Former quote from Kush:


> Doesn't a Mossberg 500 allready give me that designation? :lol:
> 
> I like my guns to go bang and kill things, I could care less about turkish wood or fancy engraving.


__________________


By the way, a Vizsla's tail is 2/3 docked so I guess we fall right in the middle of long tail and shorttail


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

pporonto said:


> By the way, a Vizsla's tail is 2/3 docked so I guess we fall right in the middle of long tail and shorttail


 
NO YOUR A SHORT TAIL!

Anything shorter than a full tail is a short tail.


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## GVSUKUSH (Mar 9, 2004)

I wander the uplands with a hardheaded shorthair, a mossberg pump, and a dirty white undershirt..........and I could give a damn what the rest of you guys think about it! :lol: :lol:


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

GVSUKUSH said:


> I wander the uplands with a hardheaded shorthair, a mossberg pump, and a dirty white undershirt..........and I could give a damn what the rest of you guys think about it! :lol: :lol:


I think its funny and that is why I hunt with you, your plain funny.


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## Duece22 (Mar 30, 2004)

PahtridgeHunter said:


> A little word of advice here, G, because you're new here. Most of us like to discuss and debate just about anything in regards to bird dogs and shotguns, but you'll find that if you come with that kind of arrogance without establishing some type of a repoire, your not going to get much except a cold shoulder. I challenge you to look past your overinflated ego, and join the ranks. Welcome to M-S!


Very well said Jay! 

And for the record, I like all bird dogs, cold beer, and a mossberg makes a great boat paddle :lol: 
Ric

Setter's arent a bird dog are they?:lol:


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## Duece22 (Mar 30, 2004)

GVSUKUSH said:


> I wander the uplands with a hardheaded shorthair, a mossberg pump, and a dirty white undershirt..........and I could give a damn what the rest of you guys think about it! :lol: :lol:


This is why I hunt with you as well Steve, because I know there is no one that will come near me with you hanging around. Your like the bird hunting HULK!
Jr


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## Worm Dunker (Sep 11, 2000)

Welcome GSGrouser I see you and I have a lot in common! Since your new take some advise from me. _WARNING_ shorttail guys don't like to hear bad things about there dogs. It's ok to make fun of our setters that their burr magnets, women dogs, pampered coach potatoes (mine due fit in to this catagory),and many other names.


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## Tecumseh (Aug 13, 2004)

HarleyP said:


> That's about the most arrogant post I've read on this site in a long time.... maybe ever.
> 
> 
> > So, um, how do you really feel HarleyP?:lol: That may just be the funniest response I have ever read. My sense of humor may be a little off but I am still laughing and that is all that matters:lol: .


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## GVSUKUSH (Mar 9, 2004)

Duece22 said:


> This is why I hunt with you as well Steve, because I know there is no one that will come near me with you hanging around. Your like the bird hunting HULK!
> Jr


Oh come on, I'm straight outta the pages of Gray's Sporting Journal and you know it!


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## Duece22 (Mar 30, 2004)

GVSUKUSH said:


> Oh come on, I'm straight outta the pages of Gray's Sporting Journal and you know it!



I look forward to the show you will be hosting Kush, maybe you could invite me on as a guest sometime!:lol:


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## kek25 (Jul 9, 2005)

You guys with short hair dogs are missing the point. A setter's hair is the product of evolution. Because setters are such great hunters, we that hunt behind them limit out so quickly we have to have something (i.e. debur) to do while waiting for the rest of you to get back to the truck.:lol: 

And as far as a setter's appeal to women, I don't see the disadvantage?? With their ability to help guys in that department, the setter is truly a versatile dog!


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## bombcast (Sep 16, 2003)

I have yet to have a pleasant hunting experience over an English Setter or Weimaraner. 

I did get to see an English Setter poop out a tube sock though. :lol:


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## Hevi (May 18, 2004)

kek25 said:


> With their ability to help guys in that department, the setter is truly a versatile dog!


Good point. Most of you guys need all the help you can get.

And Terry, you guys don't have that much in common. He hasn't pointed out negatives in every topic yet, came up with any conspiracy theories, or complained about something once.


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## Hevi (May 18, 2004)

GSGrouser said:


> Aahhh.......
> I see that this is a very lateral-minded group and not averse to tying a thread into twisty little knots.....<g>.
> 
> Nothing wrong with shorttails...for the average hunter.
> ...


Dogwhistle, is that you??? :evil:


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## FieldWalker (Oct 21, 2003)

Hevi said:


> Dogwhistle, is that you??? :evil:


 

Finally something on this thread worth posting about!


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## Duece22 (Mar 30, 2004)

Hevi said:


> Dogwhistle, is that you??? :evil:


:lol: :woohoo1:


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## kek25 (Jul 9, 2005)

bombcast said:


> I did get to see an English Setter poop out a tube sock though. :lol:


Just another example of the setter's value. Do you know how much it would have cost his owner to have that sock removed surgically?


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## Worm Dunker (Sep 11, 2000)

Steelheadfred I'll agree you killed more birds over your labs than I did over my setters but if you in a P.M. want to trade numbers of birds moved per number of days hunted you may be suprized. I was only out once this year and didn't move a bird and that was at the M-S grouse camp hunting stuff I wouldn't have hunted if I was by myself. The very first(Sept15)hunting report I posted this year I said I wouldn't post number because most would say I was eithor bragging or lying.


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## kek25 (Jul 9, 2005)

Hevi said:


> Good point. Most of you guys need all the help you can get.


You're right, it's tough leaving so many broken hearts behind. Might get a short haired dog to mitigate the damages.


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## Hevi (May 18, 2004)

kek25 said:


> You're right, it's tough leaving so many broken hearts behind. Might get a short haired dog to mitigate the damages.


Nice try...:lol:


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## Ruger1 (Sep 27, 2004)

Nothing wrong with pump guns&#8230;for the *average* hunter&#8230;.
(and I&#8217;ve even shot a number of good pump guns ((but only original 28 ga. Model 12s&#8217) over the years) but the Joe Six Pack pump gun shooter (dare I say &#8220;Trombone&#8221 can never realize his/her true potential as a shotgunner until they become determined to define their firearm as much more than a "utility" shotgun. 

Perchance if they were to venture over to the Detroit Gun Club and attempt to grasp the concept that the true essence of shotgunning is, of course, the anti-thesis of "utility."

However&#8230;&#8230;

There is a whole &#8216;nother level to the shooting sports &#8211; be they blood or target - that necessitates, no in fact that demands, a devotion to style, elegance, form, panache, desire and (if you&#8217;ll excuse my French) _provenance _that can only be achieved by the foresaking your beloved proletrian &#8220;corn cob&#8221; forend and accept the &#8220;splinter&#8221; as an ideal.. Such that can only be epitomized by the (need you ask) BEST London SxS ( hopefully only one or two serial number digits removed from same built for the Prince of Wales) . Only with such a firearm will you be able to approach, dare I say achieve, the penultimate elegance needed to badge yourself with the title: *Bird Shooter Extraoidinere*! 

Joe Lunch Buckets' (or if you prefer Joe Six Packs&#8217 of the world unite &#8211; all you have to lose are your chains (er) 870&#8217;s, (er) docked tails er/or whatever.

Hope everyone accepts this as it is written &#8211; dripping with sarcasm towards the original post. 

I can honestly say that I truly love all bird dog breeds, sorry that I can&#8217;t say the same for all bird dog breed owners and while I've rarely met in the last 41 years or so of involvement with bird dogs an obnoxious dog I am truly sorry to say that I cannot say the same about their owners or their enablers/excusers.

But always remember that the best shotgun for you is the one that answers your needs, far be it from me to trash another shotgun etc. etc. _ad nauseum... _

Ruger1


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## Duece22 (Mar 30, 2004)

milmo1 said:


> With their feathers flowing in the breeze as they are locked on point, there isn't a much prettier vision in the grouse woods. .


This is not a good reason I have a lab with a feathered tail that will lock up on a tight holding bird and let it blow in breeze. 
Ric


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## kek25 (Jul 9, 2005)

Hevi said:


> Nice try...:lol:


I thought you had me on that one.


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

Worm Dunker said:


> Steelheadfred I'll agree you killed more birds over your labs than I did over my setters but if you in a P.M. want to trade numbers of birds moved per number of days hunted you may be suprized. I was only out once this year and didn't move a bird and that was at the M-S grouse camp hunting stuff I wouldn't have hunted if I was by myself. The very first(Sept15)hunting report I posted this year I said I wouldn't post number because most would say I was eithor bragging or lying.


Terry,

I dont want play numbers game, just dont knock another dog when you dont hunt behind them...I spend a lot more time on the ground than you do, just by virtue of where I live. You might enjoy hunting over a good flusher, you might not, but to each his own, I dont call your dogs big running, bird busting, trial trash...

Now lets get back to being friends. Any time you want to hunt over my dogs we can get together I think you would change your mind.


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## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

Worm Dunker said:


> Steelheadfred I'll agree you killed more birds over your labs than I did over my setters but if you in a P.M. want to trade numbers of birds moved per number of days hunted you may be suprized. I was only out once this year and didn't move a bird and that was at the M-S grouse camp hunting stuff I wouldn't have hunted if I was by myself. The very first(Sept15)hunting report I posted this year I said I wouldn't post number because most would say I was eithor bragging or lying.


Terry,
What would that prove? Besides you don't have to prove anything to us, we know you got a bum knee and didn't get out as often as you wanted along with all the other tragic losses you experienced this season.

Of course Fred killed more birds over his Labs, he is twenty something, lean, panther quick and all that other crap he self proclaims  he is supposed to pound it hard every day. And I don't think its a secret....he probably killed more birds than 98% of the guys that read this board, he does have grouse nesting in his backyard afterall.

One other thing, I thought it was Ok for grouse hunters to talk about flushes and flush rates, tell us about your great day(just don't mention kills), I know I would like to hear about it. Just because it was an outstanding day doesn't make you a liar. I love stories like that, it gives me hope for the future and something to daydream about while trying to pass along the next eight months until opening day.


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

Ruger1,

Well played hand Sir....


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

Grush,

I think you did better per day or per opportunity than I did.

As a side note, according to Mrs. Heller I am not as lean as I need to be:yikes: so I guess we are going to work on that. 

Man would a nice cocktail be nice right now.


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## NEMichsportsman (Jul 3, 2001)

So I spend the day at Cabelas and see a thread with 38 posts that only had 2 posts when I left....kinda freaked out about what I might find!

GS welcome to the site! But I would re-iterate that usually somebody allows the membership a chance to "get to know" who they are, and what they are about before they go in with guns blazing. When people make initial posts with such a flourish...... usually indicates a troll, or somebody that has left our little community for one reason or another and returned with a chip on their shoulder.

For now I am guessing that your attempt to interject some good natured ribbing into the forum was simply that. Enjoy your stay here at MS!!!!!


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## Duece22 (Mar 30, 2004)

Steelheadfred said:


> Grush,
> 
> I think you did better per day or per opportunity than I did.
> 
> ...


Whats Kari got you on a quota again Fred, pull up your skirt one time go to the freezer fill your glass up with ice and poor yourself a drink, and make it double, the choke chain is already cutting off your wind what does it matter if your head falls off in the process. :lol:


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## milmo1 (Nov 9, 2005)

Duece22 said:


> This is not a good reason I have a lab with a feathered tail that will lock up on a tight holding bird and let it blow in breeze.
> Ric


As I said, I'd consider a pointing lab, but the setter locked on point, feathers flowing...
Let's just say, that's why they paint pictures just like that.
There just isn't a classier grouse dog.


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## Worm Dunker (Sep 11, 2000)

Well to start with I didn't realize I have been picking on anybody dogs(lately) and I'm sorry if somebody took this post that way. This post started best bird dog. I said birds to me are grouse and the best(pointing) grouse dogs are pointers and setters and this is a proven fact (63 years of grouse championships and they have all been won by setters or pointers). Just like the best all age horseback dogs are pointers they haven't been beat since 1966 Johnny Crocket the last setter to win the National Championship. I didn't make up these numbers is a matter of fact anybody can look up if they want. If calling flushing breed self hunters is what set you I'm sorry I though flushing breeds were breed to find sent and chase it up for the shooter. Isn't that self hunting? Or at least thats what the labs I use to have did. Where to me pointing breeds are breed to find sent and pursuit it and pin it for the hunter to shoot.

Thanks for the invite by hunting behind flusher isn't my cup of tea. Hunting to me is finding (locating the beeper) and finding a dog frozen on point only thing moving is it's long hair blowing in the wind. Then it's take out the camera get it's picture and it the birds sets long enough for a shot fine if not it's better luck on the next bird. This is why you don't see me post a lot of dead bird pictures but lots of pictures of my setter on point.


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## milmo1 (Nov 9, 2005)

bombcast said:


> I have yet to have a pleasant hunting experience over an English Setter or Weimaraner.


I'm guessing you haven't hunted behind more than 1 English Setter.

Truth of the matter is, I'd enjoy hunting behind any well trained pointing dog, I might opt to never hunt with some of the owners, however.


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

Why do some guys have to besmurch other breeds in order to prove the accolades of their own. Although I know quite a few setter guys who aren't like this, I know more who are. 
It's funny because I didn't see anyone else do this while explaining why their dogs are the best for them. It's like shortmans complex, only with "longtails".:lol: 

Personally, I have hunted behind a few very fine setters but, they didn't have anything on my GSP's (except burrs:lol: ). I still beleave in the old adage it takes birds to make a birddog. If you go out and buy a well bred bird dog (doesn't matter the breed) and spend a lot of time with it on birds you will have a good bird dog. Both of my GSP's come out of midwest pheasant lines and both have become good to great grouse dogs in the 3-4 years that I have had them. I am quite sure that if I had bought well bred setters, pointers etc. they would be just as good as my current shorthairs.

I do believe that Field Trials enhance the breed but lets face it. If you put a shorthair in the grouse trials and it had twice as many finds as the next best dog, the judges would still not put it up. "Style" has a lot to do with who wins those trials. And style is judged by the setter and pointer. A stylish shorthair doesn't look like a setter or a pointer. Not that one is better than the other, just making a point.


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## Rooster_Smasher (Oct 18, 2003)

"There is a whole 'nother level of sport that requires a high desire dog with the characteristic style and elegance provided only by pointers and setters".


Lets get that Setter of yours out for some 200 yard blinds with 2 thirty second stops and a couple of overs, then after that do a few doubles or triple marks at different distances. Pin Roosters one day and then work Grouse the next. How about some cold water fetches on Ducks through a flood of decoys. You mention "a whole 'nother level of sport", thats a level of I do with my GUNDOGs. My Setter is just a good solid bird finder. My shorthairs are Gun dogs, complete well rounded in all aspects of hunting. "Just the right sort of dogs for the utility-minded sportsman", not the close minded single quarry types. 

To reach these levels takes an animal with outstanding intelligence, high desire and cooperation. Which is a lot more than a simple point and fetch Mentality. 

Shot a **** a few years ago that was getting in the trash up north, I sent one of the shorthairs after it before it could get into the trees. Short fight and she promtly brought it to heel and sat proudly. Two hours later she was curled up on the bed with the kids....

Bring that Setter out and lets see just how *acceptable* it truly is ??? I'll bring the bumpers and we can do blinds on piles and then some multiples. Then some water work followed with some bird work in the fields, some backing and some steady to the fall and send them on command with a retrieve to HAND. Toss in a few wild flushes with complete Steadiness. 

Name the turf and I will be there....

Rooster


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## Duece22 (Mar 30, 2004)

Rooster_Smasher said:


> "There is a whole 'nother level of sport that requires a high desire dog with the characteristic style and elegance provided only by pointers and setters".
> 
> 
> Lets get that Setter of yours out for some 200 yard blinds with 2 thirty second stops and a couple of overs, then after that do a few doubles or triple marks at different distances. Pin Roosters one day and then work Grouse the next. How about some cold water fetches on Ducks through a flood of decoys. You mention "a whole 'nother level of sport", thats a level of I do with my GUNDOGs. My Setter is just a good solid bird finder. My shorthairs are Gun dogs, complete well rounded in all aspects of hunting. "Just the right sort of dogs for the utility-minded sportsman", not the close minded single quarry types.
> ...


WOW!! I know there was some mone being placed on bets around here about a year ago, we arent going to have that again are we


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

Well my dogs might not be the best bird dogs on this forum but they do pretty well for me and I will continue to feed them.











Just a little over an hour of hunting 2 points and backs on wild MI phez. (don't ask about the second bird)

Here's another of my last grouse hunt of the year. Don't really like posting numbers but in 3 hours of hunting I move at least 14 differen't grouse and all but 3 were over points.










This spring with a new digital camera in hand I am going to go out and get some great pictures of my dogs pointing.


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## bombcast (Sep 16, 2003)

milmo1 said:


> I'm guessing you haven't hunted behind more than 1 English Setter.
> 
> 
> > I've hunted over maybe a half dozen. Mind you, I realize that poor dog work is 95% owner, but honestly I've never seen flat-out poorer breed examples than a couple of the setters I've hunted over. The others were adequate woodcock dogs and nothing more. Come to think of it, I've never seen a grouse killed over a setter. There are good and even great setters out there, I've seen some at field trials. Just haven't hunted over one yet.
> ...


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## kek25 (Jul 9, 2005)

BIGSP said:


> Why do some guys have to besmurch other breeds in order to prove the accolades of their own. Although I know quite a few setter guys who aren't like this, I know more who are.


I don't know BSP, I looked back on the original thread before this one was started, and it seems like the non-setter guys threw the first stones??? 

I hope we all know that every breed of gun dog, well trained, is a pleasure to hunt behind. I get just as many kicks seeing a GSP point a bird as I do my setter, as I do watching flushers do their thing. Dog work is what it's all about.

Got a feeling this thread is headed for closure by the censure gods.:yikes:


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## big no no (Dec 14, 2005)

when BIGSP said the site has been boring lately he pulled out the big stick to stir the pot with.best dog I had people listing the virtues of their dogs.best dog II had people bashing other peoples dogs and i think you guys scared off GSGrouser[46 posts after his and he never replied].now we have best dog III.i think i have the answer to this question once and for all.if you ask a hundred guys whats the best dog they will all say "why my dog of course" so there is your answer!....i almost forgot GSGrouser you can come out now....:lol: :lol:now that we got that over with lets move on to something we can all have an opinion on without anybody losing an eye.paper or plastic?:yikes: i just wanted to end this post by saying i luv u guys.....


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## Hevi (May 18, 2004)

big no no said:


> when BIGSP said the site has been boring lately he pulled out the big stick to stir the pot with.


It has been boring, yesterday was a nice switch. Now it's back to the same ol' drivel.


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## drwink (Oct 15, 2003)

Don't get on much on the weekends cause I got to much to do.

Couldn't give me one of those damn setters though:lol: but I did win one in a raffle last fall.
Pounding nails over the weekend, Mossberg came in handy when I broke my hammer handle, but its ok its my Turkey gun.

Welcome to the site.

Wally


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## Rich Baker (Dec 5, 2004)

*Drahthaars are the bomb.







*


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## Duece22 (Mar 30, 2004)

Hevi said:


> It has been boring, yesterday was a nice switch. Now it's back to the same ol' drivel.


I agree the little bit of banter we had going there made things interesting and fun to read again. 
Ric


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## BarryPatch (Jul 21, 2004)

GSGrouser said:


> Aahhh.......
> I see that this is a very lateral-minded group and not averse to tying a thread into twisty little knots.....<g>.
> 
> Nothing wrong with shorttails...for the average hunter.
> ...


What does "<g>" mean?


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## BarryPatch (Jul 21, 2004)

BIGSP said:


> How would you best explain why you chose the breed that you did. Keep in mind this may not be the best dog for this particular person but, why do you feed what you feed. Let's not talk about anyone else dogs and why you wouldn't have one of those.


That's tough to do. It was somewhat of a process of elimination.  

I grew up with GSP's and my brother has two. Neither my father nor my brother could ever make them into house dogs. Could be an owner issue .
I had a rescue Golden in college. He was a "nice" dog but I hated to take him out hunting because I'd spend an hour de-buring. I seem to remember Iowa as being the most burr filled place I've ever been. Short hair only. I only hunted over flushers out there and it seemed there was a lot of wild shooting. That mostly had to do with my room mates being idiots. Since the world is full of people like that I decided on a pointing breed. I didn't want to gamble on a rare breed like the Braque du Bourbonnais or Braque Francais because I just couldn't get enough first hand info. Weims are nice but in addition to being good guard dogs some of the ones I have known have had aggression issues. One likes to attack joggers - your OK if you don't run :lol: . Great dogs as long as you stay on their good side. Pointers are just not bred for the type of hunting I do. By time they reached their natural hunting range they'd be on someone else's property. I think the only breed left is the Vizsla so I ended up with them largely by default. They don't like to be out when it's really cold - but neither do I. Sometimes they can be a bit too needy but that's not all bad.


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## BarryPatch (Jul 21, 2004)

Worm Dunker said:


> grouse dogs are pointers and setters and this is a proven fact (63 years of grouse championships and they have all been won by setters or pointers). Just like the best all age horseback dogs are pointers they haven't been beat since 1966 Johnny Crocket the last setter to win the National Championship. I didn't make up these numbers is a matter of fact anybody can look up if they want. If calling flushing breed self hunters is what set you I'm sorry I though flushing breeds were breed to find sent and chase it up for the shooter. Isn't that self hunting? Or at least thats what the labs I use to have did. Where to me pointing breeds are breed to find sent and pursuit it and pin it for the hunter to shoot.


You don't honestly believe those are open events do you??? Just because you can enter a dog doesn't mean he'll be fairly judged. Different breeds dominate different types of trials for reasons other than ability. "Style" makes a winner in those events and it is entirely subjective.


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## oleman (Oct 2, 2005)

I will have to say this is the most interesting site I visit:lol: :lol: ....Most threads make me laugh or at least smile...Few make me spit coffee on the key board .

You young bucks writings make some interesting reading:lol: :lol: ,


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## FieldWalker (Oct 21, 2003)

BarryPatch said:


> What does "<g>" mean?


Gangster


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## Bing (Sep 17, 2004)

RoosterSmasher: Great post.....Too bad it's wasted on a troll.

Some folks desire that "next level" performance out of their dogs, if they are true conservationist and sportsman "it" revolves around what the dogs abilities are after the shot. Others are far more concerned on what the dog looks like before the shot, oh well...... One good wade through the loon poo to recover a fallen bird hidden from view in a beaver pond is enough for any intelligent hunter to realize pretty is as pretty does.
Regards
Bing


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## unclecbass (Sep 29, 2005)

Its the hunter that makes the gun and the dog that counts, not the breed. I know a professional pigeon shooter from san marino italy, has a shotgun collection that would blow your mind and enough money to buy whatever dogs he likes. Hunts behind a shorthair.


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## Dave Medema (Jan 18, 2005)

I don't feel like reading 3 separate threads and all the other posts. I'll just ask 2 simple questions.

Am I an idiot if I own a setter that looks good while on point but doesn't retreive to hand? Or am I an idiot just because I own a setter?


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