# Southwest MI



## oldsalt mi (Oct 5, 2010)

Very spotty for duck and geese. This year has been very poor for me. I don't know what to think. I guess you just deer hunt more tell they show up. That's the way it goes. On the flip side had some great times with great family and friends


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## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

oldsalt mi said:


> Very spotty for duck and geese. This year has been very poor for me. I don't know what to think. I guess you just deer hunt more tell they show up. That's the way it goes. On the flip side had some great times with great family and friends


OS that has been my season, sumed up very nicely I might add. 

I have killed my share of birds this year but the dramatic lack of migrating birds moving in has been demoralizing to be honest. We got into the birds early in the season, but I believe these were mostly locally hatched. Lots of woodies but very few mallrads or blacks. May be changing their migration routes just not sure at this point. I have been making calls to some friends in the great white North and they are covered in birds and we have 6 days left to our season. I have hunted through lulls in the season for 38 years but this season was different. Basiclly a 30 day lull. I have been building calls, deer hunting and a bit of trapping to pass the time outdoors. Not exaclty what I had in mind for my waterfowl season. But i'll make it through just like always. Glad some of the forum members are getting into them it's nice to see there are a huntable number of ducks somewhere! 
Smoke


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## hankrt (Nov 7, 2007)

When will they figure out that opening Z3 so early just plain sucks!! The season is about to end here next week, and we are now just starting to see prime time. Its the same every season.


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## hoody25 (Jun 9, 2007)

hankrt said:


> When will they figure out that opening Z3 so early just plain sucks!! The season is about to end here next week, and we are now just starting to see prime time. Its the same every season.


I feel the same way about zone 3 

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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

hankrt said:


> When will they figure out that opening Z3 so early just plain sucks!! The season is about to end here next week, and we are now just starting to see prime time. Its the same every season.


If by the same every season you mean 1 week later last year, then yes.

I believe in 2005 it was Oct 15
- Dec 11.

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## The Doob (Mar 4, 2007)

If the season is truly just starting for the folks on the west side - then please push for Saginaw Bay to be moved into zone 2 in four years when that can be revisited.

I feel for you guys but the other side of the coin is that the open water hunting on Saginaw Bay peaked at about the same time Sandy hit us. An in most years, the migration/hunt is 95% over with by the 7th - 10th of November. The only solution to this quandry is to move the Bay into zone 2. That being said, their is a vocal contingent that fights that move as well.

With the weather predicted this week, the management areas should start freezing up so the end of the season seems to be just about right (here anyway)


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## Duck Tales (May 22, 2003)

Hunted Muskegon Marsh this morning and saw 2 mallards and 2 woodies. If someone goes tomorrow they"ll probably see 1 mallard and 2 woodies. I have hunted this marsh for over 30 years and the bird numbers have gone down consistantly over the last 10 years. The only thing worse than this year will probably be next year. We did way better back when the season was 30 days and 3 birds! Back then the 2 day split would be Thanksgiving weekend and it was thick with birds. Just don't know what to think other than each year I hope it gets better but that hasn't been the case. The water has been pretty low but there still seems to be a lot of good habitat for them. :sad: Maybe next year!


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## hankrt (Nov 7, 2007)

Caddis,
I would be happy with a late October to mid December like you pointed out. It seems like the good old boys club got two extra January days this season ot make up for the ones they lost last season. And to end Z3 on a Friday??? What to heck are our regulators thinking? And why is it so hard for them to extend Z3 well into December?? I just don't get it!!


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## oldsalt mi (Oct 5, 2010)

Have any of you guys look at how the 2 flyways split down the middle of MI? Does anyone now if half day hunting could and more days to the seasons? Like stop at noon on Wed and Monday.


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## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

TSS Caddis said:


> If by the same every season you mean 1 week later last year, then yes.
> 
> I believe in 2005 it was Oct 15
> - Dec 11.


I was on cwac then and it was received very well by my stakeholders in SW Mi. But not sure it was 05 Gene. I think it was 07 my first year as Chair. I know I had one year on there that we opened on the 14th might be two years it happened. My memory is failing me as of late. :SHOCKED: I agree with the poster that said the bird numbers were better with 3 bird 30 day season. It may have something to do with pressure received now that we have been 6/60 for such an extended period of time. No rest period for the birds?

I'm looking for my own theory/answers as to why we have been on a slow decline for puddlers since the late 90's in SW Mi.. I've been looking back in my journal and the weather has been about the same? A bit more precipatation some years and two years with extreme high water, bordering on flood stage. It may have something to do with farming practices, urban sprawl, retention ponds etc. I just cannot point my finger at 1 thing. But I know it sucks looking at mt skys wondering why. 

I have high hopes for the "dog bone" 4 day late split! Enjoy it guys cuz I doubt it will happen again. The next cwac meeting it will be "we lost those last 4 days might as well just thrown them away" or better yet add them to the front! :lol: 

S


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## kwcharne (Jan 8, 2008)

Like a few have stated, my season has also been very slow as well. Until this year, I have never been out and not at least seen birds flying...this year I had three hunts where we did not see one bird. I had my best day ever in mid Oct, but since then been horrible. I hunted yesterday (Saturday) a.m. and seen well over 200+ flying, but not a one wanted to play. I don't know enough about ducks to understand why our spots were so poor this year, but something was different. Hopefully I can make up for it in the late season.


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## Team Bleed Em Out (Nov 23, 2012)

What are the dates for the late season?


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## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

oldsalt mi said:


> Have any of you guys look at how the 2 flyways split down the middle of MI? Does anyone now if half day hunting could and more days to the seasons? Like stop at noon on Wed and Monday.


I don't remember talking about half day hunting. But there is no way to get more than 60 days. Federal frame work only allows a 60 day season in the MF. With our three distinct zones/openers we are allowed 3 splits. We are sort of a different animal when it comes to geography. From the extreme Western up/Kewenaw penn. to the Southern most edge of Mi. is a huge differance in weather. Hence 3 separate openers each with splits. If we could get it down to two zones we could split twice in Z3. 

If the 4th zone would have gotten the nod we would have lost all our splits. (if I remember correctly)

I was "all in" on the 4th zone. The main issues were where to split it. We got down to argueing over a road, 1 or 2 miles South or North. Not much give and take at least not enough to come to workable agreement. There were a ton of people at that meeting and most had great ideas as to where to split. But try as I might we couldn't come up with a workable plan that the majority agreed on. We would have still been there trying to work it out. I resigned after that and they discussed it in length at the following meeting. 
S


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## Retiredducker (Oct 11, 2011)

As a ducker for over 52 years....I have seen steady decline in local mallard production. Years ago early scouting would put up big flocks in loafing areas and now twenty is impressive. Simply too many predators. We could use a local spring predator control program like Deltas. Ducks don't have a chance nesting under a shrub on a lakefront home as many do...and we sure don't have much available grassland nesting cover. Hen houses can help. As for the migrators....our "migrators" mallard wise are not the prarie birds..but those from Ontario, Quebec, Wisonsin & Northern Michigan and those areas suffer the same predation as we do..just are not producing the mallards. Combine with mild winters, less corn stubble, dried up potholes...all boils down to an unimpressive season. My bird count is about the same but I have shot many singles/doubles and had very few sizeable bunches to work.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

IMO, lack of marsh on the bay shore has hurt more than anything.


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## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

Team Bleed Em Out said:


> What are the dates for the late season?


Dec. 29th 2012 - Jan. 1 2013 read your regs brother.


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## Retiredducker (Oct 11, 2011)

With such dry conditions we undoubtedly get a fly over of puddle ducks. If the area 150 miles north of me is dry and not holding many birds obviously there are not many to come my way..and on it goes. We lack the out of the way little potholes, sloughs, floodings, etc. that some years attract a bunch of birds.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Retiredducker said:


> With such dry conditions we undoubtedly get a fly over of puddle ducks. If the area 150 miles north of me is dry and not holding many birds obviously there are not many to come my way..and on it goes. We lack the out of the way little potholes, sloughs, floodings, etc. that some years attract a bunch of birds.


Back in the day you could motor through the marsh at Quanicasee the night before openers and have clouds of birds get up from the now non existent marsh.


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## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

Retiredducker said:


> With such dry conditions we undoubtedly get a fly over of puddle ducks. If the area 150 miles north of me is dry and not holding many birds obviously there are not many to come my way..and on it goes. We lack the out of the way little potholes, sloughs, floodings, etc. that some years attract a bunch of birds.


I agree and like I mentioned there is isn't one thing that I can put my finger on. There are so many variables to a good season on the great lakes. I would say you are deff. onto something with the predators, pot holes and lack of water in general. Combine that with different farming practices, lack of water in On. and Wi. plus urban sprawl etc. etc. sad really. west Michigan used to be a boone for puddle ducks back in the 60's and 70's. I started waterfowl hunting in 73 and this place was loaded with puddle ducks of all species.


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## Retiredducker (Oct 11, 2011)

Everything mentioned is a limiting factor. We should all support Delta and it's hen house program. I know several chapters are active in doing this. We'll have wet cycles again...hopefully before I'm too damned old!


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

TSS Caddis said:


> Back in the day you could motor through the marsh at Quanicasee the night before openers and have clouds of birds get up from the now non existent marsh.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk


My father which doesn't hunt much anymore always tells stories high water and phragmites free wing shooting. They never hunted that area with boats just walked the marsh a jumps shot limits of pudlers like pheasants.


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

Retiredducker said:


> Everything mentioned is a limiting factor. We should all support Delta and it's hen house program. I know several chapters are active in doing this. We'll have wet cycles again...hopefully before I'm too damned old!


Is there some sort of feud between delta and du? Too me they seem to be on the same team but fight like much of us!


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## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

sswhitelightning said:


> My father which doesn't hunt much anymore always tells stories high water and phragmites free wing shooting. They never hunted that area with boats just walked the marsh a jumps shot limits of pudlers like pheasants.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Hard to believe but my partner and I were just talking about when we started hunting the bay back in the late 80's there was not much phrag out there then....at least on the East side where we hunted. It was all cattail swamp. We used to hunt back in box car cut just like you mentioned. If we had a day where we were short a few ducks we'd take the boats across into the cut and walk in mid shin deep water with the dogs and flush ducks like phesants. Some would get up wildly in front of us others would flush behind us what a great time we used to have. Dogs dug the shiat out of it.........so did we. It wasn't something we did everyday but maybe 1 day out of a 10 day trip to our duck camp. Our boys have never seen a phrag free saginaw bay. They only know of the phragmitte choked marsh. :sad: BAck then the water was up a bunch too could motor anywhere with an outboard.


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

smoke said:


> Hard to believe but my partner and I were just talking about when we started hunting the bay back in the late 80's there was not much phrag out there then....at least on the East side where we hunted. It was all cattail swamp. We used to hunt back in box car cut just like you mentioned. If we had a day where we were short a few ducks we'd take the boats across into the cut and walk in mid shin deep water with the dogs and flush ducks like phesants. Some would get up wildly in front of us others would flush behind us what a great time we used to have. Dogs dug the shiat out of it.........so did we. It wasn't something we did everyday but maybe 1 day out of a 10 day trip to our duck camp. Our boys have never seen a phrag free saginaw bay. They only know of the phragmitte choked marsh. :sad: BAck then the water was up a bunch too could motor anywhere with an outboard.


Yea very sad for me and your kids, but what a great memory for you.


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## oldsalt mi (Oct 5, 2010)

If after duck season we all went after some type of waterfowl predator? I wonder how much we could help the ducks. Just one weekend all the duck hunters in MI go after a some kind of predator. Could this be part of the solution ???


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

It is quite simple. Saginaw bay has no business being in the same zone as southern Michigan or the sw side. I am in Jackson county and hunt a lot in calhoun county. Every year the best hunting comes in late november until the first couple weeks in December. Something really needs to be done about this. This October 6 opener stuff just is not working for us. Thank god for the 4 days in January. Maybe to make people happy they can rotate the opener? Example, this year we go with October 6th versus the 13th, next year we go with the 12th instead of the 5th, not a good idea??


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

What about issuing a bounty on predators? Tell me people would not be out killing *****, possums, yotes, or skunks for a bounty...even if it was small.


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## shrubmaster[email protected] (Mar 13, 2012)

sswhitelightning said:


> Is there some sort of feud between delta and du? Too me they seem to be on the same team but fight like much of us!
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Hey ss, not really a feud but different ideas, practices that in the end,result in more ducks. While both stress habitat, Delta adds in predator control. DU on the other hand is all about habitat n lots of it. With large n multiple areas of habitat,predators are a bit overwhelmed. Sure, predators will still get there share in all DU projects but now they have more mice, voles, rabbits etc. to prey on also. U can kill every duck predator that walks, flies, swims, crawls n slithers but in the end, without quality habitat it doesnt matter. Tear em up at the split!! Shrubby

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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

smoke said:


> Hard to believe but my partner and I were just talking about when we started hunting the bay back in the late 80's there was not much phrag out there then....at least on the East side where we hunted. It was all cattail swamp. We used to hunt back in box car cut just like you mentioned. If we had a day where we were short a few ducks we'd take the boats across into the cut and walk in mid shin deep water with the dogs and flush ducks like phesants. Some would get up wildly in front of us others would flush behind us what a great time we used to have. Dogs dug the shiat out of it.........so did we. It wasn't something we did everyday but maybe 1 day out of a 10 day trip to our duck camp. Our boys have never seen a phrag free saginaw bay. They only know of the phragmitte choked marsh. :sad: BAck then the water was up a bunch too could motor anywhere with an outboard.


 I was introduced to the bay in the 80's hunting around Dynamite and Box Car and into the inner marsh on Middle Ground. Wandered up to Defoe and Lone Tree too. Probably hunted near you guys back in those days Smoke. Yep, fond memories. But my gut tells me if we had the water we had then...maybe 24"-30" more...we'd be having some good days back there right now. Maybe not as good as then...but good. When you stand at Geiger and look out at lots of mud, and that's on a windless day, you and I just know how dry it is through Dynamite and into the inner marsh. Why would ducks be in there now? And I'm sure there are those who hunt inland marshes who are saying the same thing about lack of water. So to me, it's 90% about lack of water. And you can listen to the "experts" talk about cycles of the lakes, and how this is a natural thing...I say BS! Someone really needs to solve the problem. And let's do it in my hunting lifetime PLEASE!


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Hey ss, not really a feud but different ideas, practices that in the end,result in more ducks. While both stress habitat, Delta adds in predator control. DU on the other hand is all about habitat n lots of it. With large n multiple areas of habitat,predators are a bit overwhelmed. Sure, predators will still get there share in all DU projects but now they have more mice, voles, rabbits etc. to prey on also. U can kill every duck predator that walks, flies, swims, crawls n slithers but in the end, without quality habitat it doesnt matter. Tear em up at the split!! Shrubby
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Thanks. I never heard it put that way. Makes sense. I have supported du for about 15 years and delta about 3. Didn't know if I should pick sides.


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

just ducky said:


> I was introduced to the bay in the 80's hunting around Dynamite and Box Car and into the inner marsh on Middle Ground. Wandered up to Defoe and Lone Tree too. Probably hunted near you guys back in those days Smoke. Yep, fond memories. But my gut tells me if we had the water we had then...maybe 24"-30" more...we'd be having some good days back there right now. Maybe not as good as then...but good. When you stand at Geiger and look out at lots of mud, and that's on a windless day, you and I just know how dry it is through Dynamite and into the inner marsh. Why would ducks be in there now? And I'm sure there are those who hunt inland marshes who are saying the same thing about lack of water. So to me, it's 90% about lack of water. And you can listen to the "experts" talk about cycles of the lakes, and how this is a natural thing...I say BS! Someone really needs to solve the problem. And let's do it in my hunting lifetime PLEASE!


And in my life time. I don't wanna drive out of state every weekend to find water and kill ducks. Lol


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

All I want is a few extra weeks later in the season so I have half a chance at what is left. I will leave the reason as to why some think the population is declining to the experts. I believe all of the opinions stated here have merit, they make sense. It is up to the experts to decide which one of those ideas will take the least amount of time to correct. 

Didn't I read someplace, even thought I saw it on here as well, that Duck Hunters do very little to the overall population ? If something is out of control population wise, methods other than hunting is usually the answer it seems. So why not allow us to have good times when the birds are here.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

sswhitelightning said:


> And in my life time. I don't wanna drive out of state every weekend to find water and kill ducks. Lol
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


your profile says you're 29 SS...you're a pup (no offense intended). You *SHOULD*  have plenty of good hunting left. When I think back to the last time I had a really good hunt on the bay and had good water in some of the areas we're talking about, I believe it was '97 if my notes are right. So do the math...if that "cycle" repeats itself, for old dogs like myself and Smoke, well our days are numbered.


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## field-n-feathers (Oct 20, 2008)

No offense intended towards anyone here. But, if you can find a way to get rid of the "old school" mentality of lets keep doing the same thing over and over and over because that's the way it's always been done......I think you'll find overall improvement. Waterfowl hunters are no different than deer hunters in that regard. IMHO of course.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

field-n-feathers said:


> No offense intended towards anyone here. But, if you can find a way to get rid of the "old school" mentality of lets keep doing the same thing over and over and over because that's the way it's always been done......I think you'll find overall improvement. Waterfowl hunters are no different than deer hunters in that regard. IMHO of course.


I for one have adjusted to the changing situations. For instance, I have not been to the areas of the bay that Smoke and I were referring to in at least 5 years due to the water situation. In fact this year I only hunted the bay two days...very low for me. Instead I hunted fields a bit more this year, as well as a couple of local marshes, in addtion to Shiawassee River.


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## goosehunter31 (Sep 22, 2009)

139 ducks in 15 hunts and thats with me plus a guy or 2. Only one hunt with 3 guys. Have been averaging 9.2 ducks per hunt not to bad of a puddler year for me and the boys.


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

just ducky said:


> your profile says you're 29 SS...you're a pup (no offense intended). You *SHOULD*  have plenty of good hunting left. When I think back to the last time I had a really good hunt on the bay and had good water in some of the areas we're talking about, I believe it was '97 if my notes are right. So do the math...if that "cycle" repeats itself, for old dogs like myself and Smoke, well our days are numbered.


Lol. I never messaged the mods to correct my b day. I'm 33 but I agree with you. I'm not laying down to die just yet, but since I was old enough to hunt and my travels with my papa, I have seen lots of changes in the bay. Kind of grew up on Lk Huron


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## oldsalt mi (Oct 5, 2010)

goosehunter31 said:


> 139 ducks in 15 hunts and thats with me plus a guy or 2. Only one hunt with 3 guys. Have been averaging 9.2 ducks per hunt not to bad of a puddler year for me and the boys.



Most of the info on this post I think has more to do with public land. If that is what you are hunting your having a great year and keep it up. And if public keep hunting the hell out of it because someone will find it and burn it out for you. Trust me I know.....


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

field-n-feathers said:


> No offense intended towards anyone here. But, if you can find a way to get rid of the "old school" mentality of lets keep doing the same thing over and over and over because that's the way it's always been done......I think you'll find overall improvement. Waterfowl hunters are no different than deer hunters in that regard. IMHO of course.


The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Agree with your above statement...I'm happy with the 4 day split but how does a state dead west of us like SD run all the way through december?


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

SBE II said:


> ...I'm happy with the 4 day split but how does a state dead west of us like SD run all the way through december?


Different flyway, different rules(length of season).


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