# pudelpointers?



## PA BUCK 2 (Oct 17, 2006)

Looking for some insight on these dogs, and any breeders/kennels known. Intrigued with the about this breed but trying to do some more homework.... any thoughts and experience would be appreciated.


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## Waz_51 (Jan 10, 2010)

What kind of dog is this, a pointing lab?


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## Pointerguy (May 22, 2006)

I looked into this breed a few years back. There are only a few breeders I could find in the US and they were each priced well over $1,000 a puppy. After talking with a well known breeder out west I decided they our were not what I was looking for in a hunting dog. I would call and talk to the breeder in Utah about this breed and see for your self.


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## Pointerguy (May 22, 2006)

Waz_51 said:


> What kind of dog is this, a pointing lab?


Its a cross between a poodle and a pointer.


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## chemo13 (May 10, 2006)

My buddy has one, and when we went to AR it was certainly the talk of the camp (this was before the Duck Commander episode with Sy and the poodle).
The dog did well retrieving and I've seen it work it's "upland game" quite nicely.
Send me a PM with your # and I can put him in touch with you. He's into dogs so I'm pretty sure he know what he's talking about.


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

Pointerguy said:


> Its a cross between a poodle and a pointer.


No it's not. There's quite a bit more to it than that.


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## Pointerguy (May 22, 2006)

BIGSP said:


> No it's not. There's quite a bit more to it than that.




In 1881, a German breeder, Baron von Zedlitz, worked on producing his ideal tracking, pointing, and retrieving gun dog, suitable for work on both land and water. From seven specific Poodles and nearly 100 different pointers, he developed the Pudelpointer.


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

Pointerguy said:


> In 1881, a German breeder, Baron von Zedlitz, worked on producing his ideal tracking, pointing, and retrieving gun dog, suitable for work on both land and water. From seven specific Poodles and nearly 100 different pointers, he developed the Pudelpointer.


That's a far cry from its a pointer and poodle mix. A hundred years if breeding etc. your original post made it sound like a labradoodle.


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## PA BUCK 2 (Oct 17, 2006)

Pointerguy has it correct from my initial research. Seem to be a very popular breed in Europe but limited here. One of the things that scare me a little is that there are limited breeders. I have spoken with a couple guys that have these dogs and they love them. Good in the field, smart, easy to train and great in the home with kids. I know that there are a couple breeders in Ohio and WI- but the majority are out west. I know that the Utah breeder is a big one and has been written up in Gun Dog quite a bit and there is also one in Idaho I believe. 

Just doing my home work as I want to get a pup next year, as far as I can see. I loved my lab- who I got from Hunters Point Kennel out of Indy... But they are not around anymore. He had to be put down about a year ago... I know that his sire has been used to stock a lot of kennels around so I might go that route again... Tough to switch breeds.


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## kellyM87 (Oct 23, 2008)

I knew a guy who trained one for a client. The trainer owned pointers and was impressed with the pudelpointer, if you want I can get more info about how he was to train, drive, ect....


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## Socks (Jan 8, 2007)

PA BUCK 2 said:


> Pointerguy has it correct from my initial research. Seem to be a very popular breed in Europe but limited here. One of the things that scare me a little is that there are limited breeders. I have spoken with a couple guys that have these dogs and they love them. Good in the field, smart, easy to train and great in the home with kids. I know that there are a couple breeders in Ohio and WI- but the majority are out west. I know that the Utah breeder is a big one and has been written up in Gun Dog quite a bit and there is also one in Idaho I believe.
> 
> Just doing my home work as I want to get a pup next year, as far as I can see. I loved my lab- who I got from Hunters Point Kennel out of Indy... But they are not around anymore. He had to be put down about a year ago... I know that his sire has been used to stock a lot of kennels around so I might go that route again... Tough to switch breeds.


As I was reading I thought "lab", but then I read the last part. The good thing about labs is there are a lot of good labs out there. If you do a search on here I'm sure you find some good semi local lab breeders.


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## PA BUCK 2 (Oct 17, 2006)

kellyM87 said:


> I knew a guy who trained one for a client. The trainer owned pointers and was impressed with the pudelpointer, if you want I can get more info about how he was to train, drive, ect....


Would love to know more about the pup and kennel he was out of... THank you!


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

PA BUCK 2 said:


> Looking for some insight on these dogs, and any breeders/kennels known. Intrigued with the about this breed but trying to do some more homework.... any thoughts and experience would be appreciated.


The guy breeding them in Idaho has a good reputation from what I understand. My wife encountered one of his dogs a few years ago and said the dog was well mannered enough.

Like the shorthair it's a relatively new breed in the grand scheme of things.

Honestly, you can probably find a shorthair or wirehair that will do just as good a job and cost you a lot less to get as a pup.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## crosswind (Sep 1, 2004)

FWIW, there is a reason why 99 percent of the bird dogs are basically made up of 4 breeds. THEY WORK. 

The price one pays for the unique breed is not only extra money but most of the time it produces sub par performance as compared to the other breeds. So you pay on that end also.
But hey, it looks different then what most other people own. LOL
I guess I will never understand that type of thinking.


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

crosswind said:


> FWIW, there is a reason why 99 percent of the bird dogs are basically made up of 4 breeds. THEY WORK.
> 
> The price one pays for the unique breed is not only extra money but most of the time it produces sub par performance as compared to the other breeds. So you pay on that end also.
> But hey, it looks different then what most other people own. LOL
> I guess I will never understand that type of thinking.


One of the most brilliant posts ever! Well written. Sure there are good dogs in every breed but you can greatly improve your chances of getting an outstanding dog if you stick with the big 4 and if you want a bearded dog go with a wirehair.


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## Shotgun Kennel (Feb 9, 2007)

Ive seen Pudelpointers run in NAVHDA hunt tests. My observations is they are an honest hard working hunting dog. They retrieve from land and water very well. The ones I have seen have a nice temperament and love their families. Having said that, this is just my observation and the genetics plays the biggest part. I have also seen a couple that did not look anything like what a pudlepointer should look like. Only one that I saw over the years had a nasty temperament. Forget about running them in field trials. They don't run big enough or fast enough to compete.

These are not a "Unique" dog and the breeders I have run into are careful what they breed. You may want to check the NAVHDA web site to see if they have any breeder ads. You may want to look at the NAVHDA pedigrees to narrow your search from there.

They are not my 'cup of tea' as they collect burrs like most longer coated dogs.


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## crosswind (Sep 1, 2004)

Shotgun Kennel said:


> Ive seen Pudelpointers run in NAVHDA hunt tests. My observations is they are an honest hard working hunting dog. They retrieve from land and water very well. The ones I have seen have a nice temperament and love their families. Having said that, this is just my observation and the genetics plays the biggest part. I have also seen a couple that did not look anything like what a pudlepointer should look like. Only one that I saw over the years had a nasty temperament. Forget about running them in field trials. They don't run big enough or fast enough to compete.
> 
> These are not a "Unique" dog and the breeders I have run into are careful what they breed. You may want to check the NAVHDA web site to see if they have any breeder ads. You may want to look at the NAVHDA pedigrees to narrow your search from there.
> 
> They are not my 'cup of tea' as they collect burrs like most longer coated dogs.


Anything with a gene pool of that size is unique. It is also what drives many people to have one. It is that which drives me to say I will never understand that kind of thinking. 
And like any other breed I sure it has some good ones That an go out there in he field and get the job done.
The point Im trying to make is for every good ONE in that breed you will have a thousand in the other major breeds.
I could show up at next years Ididarod with a team of Pointers and might even finish, but there is a reason why all those other dogs are Huskies or Sibs. Because they work.
But I would be UNIQUE.


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## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm not for or against this subject, but I'd pay $10 for a picture of Crosswind at the Iditarod start line with a team of pointers! $5 to watch the harnedsing! 

Sent from my SPH-M820-BST using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## crosswind (Sep 1, 2004)

Mr. Botek said:


> I'm not for or against this subject, but I'd pay $10 for a picture of Crosswind at the Iditarod start line with a team of pointers! $5 to watch the harnedsing!
> 
> Sent from my SPH-M820-BST using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Lmao, I was gonna say a team of brittanys but that would be pushing things.LOL

FWIW. Im not slamming the breed I really could care less what people run. I simple saying I don't understand the logic of wanting something different.

I have worked with those, something different, dogs many times over the years. Most of the time they are really lacking in many areas.
But they are a great conversation piece when you take them to the doggie park.LOL


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

Mr. Botek said:


> I'm not for or against this subject, but I'd pay $10 for a picture of Crosswind at the Iditarod start line with a team of pointers! $5 to watch the harnedsing!
> 
> Sent from my SPH-M820-BST using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Actually I read that they are breeding some shorthairs into their stock.


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## post126 (Sep 9, 2011)

This is my pudelpointer Colt. He is 17 months old out of Marshland gun dogs in Minnesota. I have run NA 106 prize III and we did UPT this spring 175 prize I. If you are looking to run field trials not the dog for you. Pudelpointers are not recognized by AKC so you can't run their trials. Chemo gave me your number, I will give you a call on my way into work. I'am always happy to talk about my dogs 


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## Seth L (Jul 2, 2013)

PA Buck 2

If you look solely at the up-front cost of a dog sticking with the "big4" you will have the best chance at getting the most value.

However, if you look at the few hundred dollars more you spend to get whatyou want over the lifetime of the dog its not a really big deal. You will havethe same food and vet bills and everything that comes along with a dog.

Do your homework on the breed and certainly your breeder.

I did and I ended up going with a rare breed and could not be happier! Find the dog that fits what you are going to ask ofhim and your needs.

Gundog breeders http://www.gundogbreeders.com/is a good spot to start your search they have 23 breeders listed.


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## Waz_51 (Jan 10, 2010)

That dog looks like a hunting fool to me!


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## J-Lee (Jul 11, 2000)

This kennel is well thought of in The Pudelpointer breed. http://cedarwoodgundogs.com/


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## PA BUCK 2 (Oct 17, 2006)

post126 said:


> View attachment 41114
> View attachment 41115
> View attachment 41116
> 
> ...


 Post- thank you.... No hurry as I am just starting to look into this. Nice pics and it looks like you are getting him on a variety of birds which is awesome!!! No plans on any hunt tests here... just a hunting fool and want a dog that is the same. Have access to property in NLP and UP so grouse and woodcock as well as ducks and geese...


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## PA BUCK 2 (Oct 17, 2006)

Seth-
I hear on the up front costs. Not that worried about that... want a great dog that is birdy as hell and can adapt to the family life too. 

J-Lee- that is the one kennel that keeps popping up that I mentioned earlier. There is also the one in Minnesota that Post got his pup from, Killbuck Kennel in OH and another in Somerset county PA that seems to have a pretty good following. 

I will keep digging into this and see what I turn up.


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

PA BUCK 2 said:


> Seth-
> I hear on the up front costs. Not that worried about that... want a great dog that is birdy as hell and can adapt to the family life too.
> 
> J-Lee- that is the one kennel that keeps popping up that I mentioned earlier. There is also the one in Minnesota that Post got his pup from, Killbuck Kennel in OH and another in Somerset county PA that seems to have a pretty good following.
> ...


What kind of hunting do you plan on doing?


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## PA BUCK 2 (Oct 17, 2006)

I hunt just about everything.... Ducks, Geese, Grouse, Pheasants..... Will be training myself-just like my last dog....


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## Lucky Dog (Jul 4, 2004)

This article should quiet the nay sayers.

http://www.americanhunter.org/articles/best-all-around-hunting-dog

End of discussion.


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## mudbat2128 (Sep 7, 2004)

Lucky Dog said:


> This article should quiet the nay sayers.
> 
> http://www.americanhunter.org/articles/best-all-around-hunting-dog
> 
> End of discussion.


I remember reading that article and thinking Ron Spomer shoud stick to writing about big game . He must of needed some extra money.


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## Freestone (May 15, 2003)

I like that article  


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

mudbat2128 said:


> I remember reading that article and thinking Ron Spomer shoud stick to writing about big game . He must of needed some extra money.


No doubt. There is no one perfect dog for everyone. I personally believe the higher the drive to retreive makes a dog less staunch. Jmo


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

mudbat2128 said:


> I remember reading that article and thinking Ron Spomer shoud stick to writing about big game . He must of needed some extra money.


Eggzzzactly 

Spomer does a good job on hunting big game, rifles and other gear.

Hunting dogs, not so much. There is no "do all, be all hunting dog". His comparison of ESS vs ECS is a hoot!


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## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

Lucky Dog said:


> This article should quiet the nay sayers.
> 
> http://www.americanhunter.org/articles/best-all-around-hunting-dog
> 
> End of discussion.


I got a chuckle out of this quote in reference to Brittany's. Take that field bred setter guys!:lol:


> blockier version of setters...


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

mudbat2128 said:


> I remember reading that article and thinking Ron Spomer shoud stick to writing about big game . He must of needed some extra money.


No doubt. There is no one perfect dog for everyone. I personally believe the higher the drive to retreive makes a dog less staunch. Jmo


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

PA BUCK 2 said:


> I hunt just about everything.... Ducks, Geese, Grouse, Pheasants..... Will be training myself-just like my last dog....




The big Six if you break it down, and all the different lines with in those six.


Pointers, Setters, GSP's, Brits - Pointing Breeds
Springers, Labs - Flushing/Retrievers

The next four:

GWP/Draughts, Viz, Griffs, Cockers

Those ten breeds have lots of availability and a variety of lines to choose from to fit your needs.


You mentioned ducks and geese, so you can pare your list down further. 

Pointers, Setters, Cockers, Viz, out (not saying they can't do it, just typically not waterfowl purposed dogs)

That leaves. Springers, Labs, GWP/Draught, GSP, Brits. 

You should be able to find the dog for you with in those lines. 


Go find someone that hunts like you do, and watch their dogs, if you like what you see inquire further.


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## Dogwood (Dec 15, 2004)

Steelheadfred said:


> Gospel. Heed this advice to the letter.


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## gundogguy (Oct 5, 2008)

BIGSP said:


> No doubt. There is no one perfect dog for everyone. *I personally believe the higher the drive to retreive makes a dog less staunch. Jmo*





+1 That's fact! Seen that many times! The big question is, the point more important that the retrieve or is the retrieve more important than the point.

If pointing versatile breed is what you like, chances are you want a dark color coated dog and either smooth or curly
GWP, GWPG, GSP, would be relatively easy to find a solid, healthy working pup. 
If you have to have something no one else has then most of the post here will be meaningless..

I have trained 3 Pudelpointers. Ok, Not all that exciting, would preferred a breed with more genetic background, and more prey drive.

One dog had lots of intensity on point very little on retrieve. The other 2 did not point that well, though they both had nice retrieve behavior. In my book out of the saddle they were not the complete deal!


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

gundogguy said:


> [/B]
> 
> 
> I have trained 3 Pudelpointers. Ok, Not all that exciting, would preferred a breed with more genetic background, and more prey drive.
> ...


Thanks for chiming in, Hal.

For the new entry, Hal Standish is a professional gundog trainer who probably has more actual field experience with the various breeds than anybody else who is a regular poster.

The OP and others interested in the PP would do well to heed his words.

NB


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## Shlayer (Nov 8, 2011)

FindTheBird said:


> I got a chuckle out of this quote in reference to Brittany's. Take that field bred setter guys!:lol:



Talk about an oversimplification...:lol:


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## chewy (Mar 27, 2006)

over priced dog. they haven't shown any reason to have one. I have seen a half dozen or so 


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## omega58 (Sep 3, 2003)

chewy said:


> over priced dog. they haven't shown any reason to have one. I have seen a half dozen or so
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Pretty small sample size, it is the individual, NOT the breed!


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## chewy (Mar 27, 2006)

that's a lot. there isn't a ton to look at. and I haven't seen a good one yet. 


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## omega58 (Sep 3, 2003)

chewy said:


> that's a lot. there isn't a ton to look at. and I haven't seen a good one yet.
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Six is your definition of a lot? Lol

All I need to know, good talk.


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## Rooster_Smasher (Oct 18, 2003)

Seen a few good ones in a HUNT test situation. Worked with a couple pups too. Seemed that the light bulb was slow to being lit up. If I recall, the 6 month old pup we were introducing to birds was just not that fired up. Kept it off birds for several weeks and he seemed to be a bit more gun hoe the next couple times out. The pup had never been to a field before and was to busy exploring all the sights and sounds and wonderful smells out there. In other words Distracted. After a couple times out he picked up the pace. The owner insisted on check cording the dog. I made a sugjestion, LOSE THE CHECK CORD... We then let that pup bump and chase till his heart was content, in fact if I can remember right, he caught a few birds. Then he started pointing with a little more style. His desire level was on the rise and his points became more intense. 

Had to change the training method a wee bit for this particular dog/breed. He turned out to be a pretty darn good hunting dog from the reports later on in years. 

His intensity level and pray drive was not what we see in most shorthairs, pointers, Setters etc... But none the lest this particular PP was a busy fella, always seeking game and had the never give up attitude. 

Now, on the other side of the coin I have seen several that were not very interested in birds. But, once again, how were they introduced etc... Were problems compounded or could they have been overcome with proper intro for that particular dog ?

Personally I think they are a neat breed. Find a local NAVHDA chapter and go out and watch a couple. They do well with their water work.

My 0.02 cents, now I am broke...


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## BDK (Oct 14, 2012)

Get what you want, not what others feel you need. I have seen some very goods ones come through the NAVHDA. I own 2 short hairs and 1 springer; next one has a good chance to be a P.P. just remember this; P.P. is a multi tool and not a specialist. If you need a dog with many talents for different types of hunting, not a bad choice. Look carefully and ask about the parents coats; they can be all over. Also, these dogs are not that rare; without them we would not have the Wirehair or DD. good luck.


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## Shags (Apr 6, 2012)

You might try looking here http://www.pudelpointer.org/Breeders.html

I'm in Ohio and had considered PPs to be sort of a rare breed. Until yesterday, when I saw a guy doing some training in an outlot near the local Walmart. In talking to the guy, turns out there are four breeders of PPs in Ohio alone. Who knew? :lol: The guy was working a young gyp, doing drills on lines. She looked as nice on the last one as she did on the first one I saw, with maybe 15 or so in between. She was being prepped for testing; the guy does NAVHDA and also some kind of German testing system. I've seen way sloppier work from Weims, Vs, and GSPs. The little PP didn't display great footspeed but she seemed to enjoy what she was doing and was quick enough not to bore her audience :lol:


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## remmi870 (Mar 3, 2010)

Just got this one in for some training. Looking good so far


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## chewy (Mar 27, 2006)

omega58 said:


> Six is your definition of a lot? Lol
> 
> All I need to know, good talk.
> 
> ...


10-15. a lot. for a rare breed. 


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## branchhanger (Oct 15, 2010)

I know this is a somewhat old thread, but our Small Munsterlander, who IMO was a great dog, passed away a while back, and my wife would like a dog that doesn't shed as much, (if I can covnince her to get another) and I am looking for a grouse / woodcock dog as well for the occasional hunt. PP's seem to fit both. I'm curious where the original poster ended up going, did you go watch PP's run in or near Michigan? If so can I ask where you went and what were your thoughts?


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## PA BUCK 2 (Oct 17, 2006)

Branch, i did not yet see any run. A couple gentlemen on this sight have offerred but I have been running my tail off for work. I spoke with these guys, just have not set anything up.


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## TSPham (Nov 4, 2004)

I went to see Colt, the dog from an earlier post on here belonging to Post. I liked what I saw and am still planning on looking at more dogs and getting a Pudelpointer as my next dog.

Any other owners on here willing to show off their Pudelpointer? I'm looking for as many as I can watch.

My GSP is 14 and will need a replacement soon to go with my 2 year old pointing lab. I was looking for a lab's disposition and water retrieve ability.


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## dallasdog (Nov 17, 2009)

crosswind said:


> FWIW, there is a reason why 99 percent of the bird dogs are basically made up of 4 breeds. THEY WORK.
> 
> The price one pays for the unique breed is not only extra money but most of the time it produces sub par performance as compared to the other breeds. So you pay on that end also.
> But hey, it looks different then what most other people own. LOL
> I guess I will never understand that type of thinking.


I agree .... there is a reason why some breeds are rare


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## BDK (Oct 14, 2012)

dallasdog said:


> I agree .... there is a reason why some breeds are rare


Devils advocate - perhaps by controlling the breeding and not advertising and selling to everybody; the breed keepers have been able to perfect and produce a good product. I do not believe that this so called rare breed suffers from the major issues of the popular breeds; genetic issues such as hip, eye, and elbow problems. Let's not forget about the split between field and show, and usually the breed is limited to one litter a year. I have been around or have seen 30 or so and have not seen one that was gun shy; I have been around a lot of the more popular breeds and have seen gun shy dogs (probably because there more of them) I still believe a well bred dog from a good breeder regardless of what brand it is, will work out just fine. Buy what makes you happy. Remember there are no bad dogs just bad owners.


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

BDK said:


> Devils advocate - perhaps by controlling the breeding and not advertising and selling to everybody; the breed keepers have been able to perfect and produce a good product. I do not believe that this so called rare breed suffers from the major issues of the popular breeds; genetic issues such as hip, eye, and elbow problems. Let's not forget about the split between field and show, and usually the breed is limited to one litter a year. I have been around or have seen 30 or so and have not seen one that was gun shy; I have been around a lot of the more popular breeds and have seen gun shy dogs (probably because there more of them) I still believe a well bred dog from a good breeder regardless of what brand it is, will work out just fine. Buy what makes you happy. Remember there are no bad dogs just bad owners.


Nice try! First of all gun shyness is manmade not a passable trait. 

I agree buy what you want but buying a dog from the big four will greatly stack the odds in your favor. Navhda is not the end all be all in evaluating dogs. There is something to be said about dogs that compete against each other to determine what are the best dogs.


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## BDK (Oct 14, 2012)

BIGSP said:


> Nice try! First of all gun shyness is manmade not a passable trait.
> 
> I agree buy what you want but buying a dog from the big four will greatly stack the odds in your favor. Navhda is not the end all be all in evaluating dogs. There is something to be said about dogs that compete against each other to determine what are the best dogs.


I agree that man can create a dog to be gun shy; however there are studies that support gun shyness to be genetic. Also; it is not just an evaluation through NAVHDA that I came to my conclusion but also from hunting with them. IMO competing dogs against each other for titles and saying the winner is the best is most definitely a man made ego trip.(and yes I take part in them) None of my dogs have sat back and stared at the trophies and ribbons they have gotten over the years; nor would they know what they were if you put them in front of them. However, take them to the woods and they all remember what a grouse smells like. Again I hope the buyer does their research and picks the breed that best suits them for there style of hunting good luck


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## rmw (Feb 21, 2006)

It's funny how biased some people are about breed. I think it is more about the individual dog than the breed . I've see good and bad examples of just about every breed , and I've seen more bad examples of the popular breeds and less good examples of rare breeds but because there are more of the popular breeds and less of the rare. 
Not everyone wants a ranging dog and not everyone wants a boot polisher . How many of you know someone who has a lab with bad hips? How many rare breeds do you know of with bad hips? It's just a numbers game, the lab is not a bad breed just some of the people who breed them are. Get the breed that suits you for your life style and the way you like to hunt .Do you want a kennel dog or a household pet? The wonderful thing about dogs are there diversity and probably why we want them in our lives so much


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## Jager Pro (Nov 8, 2013)

What are the "big 4" breeds? I assume it's the core of all hunting dogs, all other breeds have some type of connection... but what are the actual breeds?


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## KEITH207 (Feb 17, 2005)

I assume in pointing breeds the "big 4" means, in no particular order.
Pointer
Setter
German Shorthair
Brittany


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## Jager Pro (Nov 8, 2013)

KEITH207 said:


> I assume in pointing breeds the "big 4" means, in no particular order.
> Pointer
> Setter
> German Shorthair
> Brittany


Well I own a Britt, and based on how some ppl have been talking I feel like I should be looking to join some high class society :lol:


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