# Blackhorn 209...anybody testing it?



## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Well I broke down and purchased some of this powder. I'll be testing it in the next couple of weeks but just wondering what kind of results people are seeing? Considering that it is very expensive, I hope it works as advertised. I paid $36.95 for 10oz at Jays in Clare when I could have purchased 16oz of Triple Seven for $26.95......16oz of Blackhorn would cost me just under $60! T7 is $1.69 per oz and Blackhorn is $3.70 per oz. That is a pretty steep difference! I have seen Blackhorn a little cheaper than the price I paid, but not much. We'll see how it works...should be more consistant than the standard pyrodex pellets I am using now. Worth the price? We'll see.


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

blackhorn209 is bulkier than 777. expect the same number of 100 grain volumetric measures as you'd get from 16 oz of 777.

furthermore, 777 is slower than blackhorn209, so you're getting more bang for your buck.

let me put it to you like this.

i have a TC omega that I shot with blackhorn209 in _May, and haven't cleaned _it. no corrosion whatsoever.

far be it for me to speculate on the chemical composition (read: nitrocellulose) of blackhorn209, but i would use it without looking back.

without my notes in front of me, (for a 45/50 cal) i believe 120 grains of blackhorn209, with a 250 grain xtp, got 2,250 fps. a 300 grain remington .458 with an MMP orange sabot got right around 1950 fps, if i remember correctly. didn't shoot the 50 cal at 200 with bh209, but 100 yard groups using a 300 grain sst but me at 1" with the savage - with no load development whatsoever, just trying a favorite bullet with a standard charge.

no swabbing. sabot fit will likely become more of an issue than fouling.

accuracy? you'll find it.

best we found was: 1.4" @ 200 (3 shot), with 120 grains, in a 40/45, shooting a 200 grain SST, at 2350 fps. from a 45 cal knight disc elite.

unless you like cleaning guns, i can't find a reason to shoot anything but bh209 (that is, until you break down and buy a savage ;-)


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## Tracker83 (Jun 21, 2005)

I've only shot about 1/3 of a jug so far, but it definitely lives up to all the claims. The two more important things for me was: 1) no swabbing between shots, and 2) non-corrosive. The results were satisfying. I fired as many as 15 shots with no swabbing and didn't clean until 48 hours after shooting. I couldn't do either with 777. I was shooting 777 pellets, so cost was awash (or even cheaper) using BH209.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

According to the good folks at Western Powder, I should get 52 full house loads from one container. Thats more than I expected. Even with the expensive Barnes bullets, I'll still be under $2 a round....a bargain considering the performance potential. (atleast until I "upgrade" to smokeless!)

RZ, I don't question the chemical make up of it either but you and I are on the same page....it's gotta be close to full on nitro since it seems to be everything they claim it to be. Stuff that Savage with an above max load of 150 grains and let me see the readings! You know that Savage can handle it!


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## uptracker (Jul 27, 2004)

Go to the modern muzzleloading website and read. It's getting a lot of mixed reviews.


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## mparks (Sep 4, 2001)

Works great in my Knight DISC Elite. A lot less fouling in the breech when I went to the n-FPJ plug.

Sure makes it fun to shoot compared to the other options for zone 3. Paying $2-4 a shot was starting to take the fun out of shooting my slug gun. Really nice to be able to shoot 5-6 times in a short range session without having to do a full cleaning.

FYI modernmuzzleloading.com is down because their server got whacked by Hurricane Ike. Supposed to be fixed soon.


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

Swamp Monster said:


> According to the good folks at Western Powder, I should get 52 full house loads from one container. Thats more than I expected. Even with the expensive Barnes bullets, I'll still be under $2 a round....a bargain considering the performance potential. (atleast until I "upgrade" to smokeless!)
> 
> RZ, I don't question the chemical make up of it either but you and I are on the same page....it's gotta be close to full on nitro since it seems to be everything they claim it to be. Stuff that Savage with an above max load of 150 grains and let me see the readings! You know that Savage can handle it!


yeah, shooting 65 grains of imr 4198, with win209 primers, mmp sabots, and hornady SST's, and i'm right at $1 per shot. if i want to practice (or hell, even hunt) with XTP's or Remington 458's, i'm down to 55 or 60 cents a shot.

i'm sure the savage would take the 150 grains of bh209, not sure i'd want to though.. after moving from 42.5 grains of imr sr 4759 last season (shooting 2130 fps with 300 gr sst), i thought 65 grains of 4198 was stout (getting me up to 2350 fps). then i shot 120 grains of bh209 through my omega.. not exactly a load for a long day at the range! of course, the omega feels like a featherweight compared to the savage, and the beef of the savage soaks up some of that recoil, but no - i don't have any immediate plans to shoot 150 grains through anything right now!



uptracker said:


> Go to the modern muzzleloading website and read. It's getting a lot of mixed reviews.


i haven't been to modermuzzleloading for a while. i've had really good luck with it. i do believe that your average muzzleloader could pretty much use whatever sabots he wanted with black powder subs and get decent accuracy. i don't find that to be the case with bh209 - imo, you've got a little more load development there in finding the right bullet/sabot combo - kind of like smokeless..


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## Critter (Mar 3, 2006)

Shot a few groups tonight with it out of my Knight DISC Elite .50. So far so good, it shoots as advertised. I shot a .78" group at 100 yards with 100 grs of BH209, Dead Center 260gr .40 in the supplied sabot, lit with a Win 209. I shot a few other bullets but none shot as well. Loading never got harder and accuracy did not decrease from fouling. As far as noncorrosive, that remains to be seen.


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## mparks (Sep 4, 2001)

Critter said:


> Shot a few groups tonight with it out of my Knight DISC Elite .50. So far so good, it shoots as advertised. I shot a .78" group at 100 yards with 100 grs of BH209, Dead Center 260gr .40 in the supplied sabot, lit with a Win 209. I shot a few other bullets but none shot as well. Loading never got harder and accuracy did not decrease from fouling. As far as noncorrosive, that remains to be seen.


Nice group. Are you using the non-FPJ plug? That was a real nice $25 upgrade for me due to the mess in the breech from blowback using the red jackets.

I've left mine dirty for a few weeks with no ill effects. I've not read any reports to dispute the non-corrosive claim to date. The guys at modernmuzzleloader.com did a month long test and weren't able to produce any rust from the fouling.


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## Critter (Mar 3, 2006)

No I still use the jackets, I am one of the folks that really like them. I am getting some blowby but not enough to worry me, certainly not more than with 777. I saw the test at MM, I sent my $10 to help the cause. I am waiting to see for myself, kind of hardheaded that way.


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## BUSTA'YOTE (Aug 26, 2003)

I have been shooting it for a few months now, out of several rifles. Overall I am very pleased with it and I have shot some of my best Muzzleloading groups with Blackhorn 209. The only downside is all the carbon build-up in and around the breech plugs from the 209 primers you HAVE to use for ignition. The best primers are Federal 209A, CCI 209M (Magnum), and Winchester W209 (blue box). I have had hang-fires with standard CCI's in my Knight Disc Extreme MHC using the Non-Full Plastic Jacket breech plug. .25 ACP, Musket, and #11 ignitions NEED NOT APPLY.

Some of my targets and best groups. It has been a very consistant powder. 

.50 caliber Knight Disc Extreme MHC.
























































.50 caliber NEF Huntsman with Custom Breech Plug.


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## BUSTA'YOTE (Aug 26, 2003)

Continued.

I also wanted to say this powder is not for Win Triple Se7en, Rem Kleanbore, Fed Fusion, or any of the 209 primers that have been reduced for other Black Powder Substitutes. You need the strongest 209's available, as noted in above post. They also do not recommend it for open breech 209 applications, I did try it in my White, acceptable performance, but left quite a mess in the receiver due to blowback from the 209's.


.451 caliber White M-98 Elite Hunter with 209 conversion.


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## sourdough44 (Mar 2, 2008)

I cronographed some B209 today. Temp 73, Knight 26" Disc 50cal, Hornaday 250grn SST CCI 209M primers.

100 grns B209 = 1774fps
120 grns B209 = 1950fps.

My partner tried some Shockey's Gold powder with the same bullet in his T/C 26". He got 1494fps with 120grns of S G powder.


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## mparks (Sep 4, 2001)

sourdough44 said:


> I cronographed some B209 today. Temp 73, Knight 26" Disc 50cal, Hornaday 250grn SST CCI 209M primers.
> 
> 100 grns B209 = 1774fps
> 120 grns B209 = 1950fps.
> ...


Thanks for the info. I shoot the same setup.

Are those figures from an average of X number of shots over the chrono? I'd agree that those "real world" figures are a little lower than what is posted on the various boards. I'll have to chrono mine sometime and see what I get.

Have you done any accuracy testing pitting the magnum primers against standard CCI 209s? I'd like to use the hottest primer available but my limited testing showed a slight accuracy edge to the standard CCI vs. 209M, maybe I need to do some more testing.


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

that's strange..

i know i chrony'd my omega last year, using 120 grains of bh209 and a 250 grain XTP at 2,200 fps. the 300 grain was in the 1900 fps range.

guess i'll have to reconfirm that, but i'm positive that's what i've got recorded in my notes.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Well, I got a chance to head to the range on Saturday for a short bit. I did not have much luck with the blackhorn, but it was not exactly extensive testing. I just used a full 120 grains and the 290 Barnes MZ's...best I could muster was about 5" at 100 yards. I did not try any other combos so it's to oearly to form a conclusion. I did shoot my standard load of 150 gr of pyrodex pellets and the same Barnes and could only muster a 3" group at 100 yards so I was not having a good day period. The blackhorn had a bit more oomph to it on the bench, so I know doubt am getting a bit more velocity. It was as clean as advertised. I was using regular CCI shotgun primers and they didn't seem to foul the breech plug as much as expected either. I will try some other combinations and some other primers. I didn't waste any time past 100 yards, not with those groups. 

On a positive note, I mounted my Leupold 2-7x33mm Vari XII on my Win 94 Timber Carbine in .444 Marlin and it only took 5 shots to dial it in. Shoots great with factory Hornady 265 gr soft points. Once these factory loads are gone, this gun will be strictly used with handloads. This gun is ready for the sason and won't see the bench again, strictly field position practice from here on.


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

time to play with sabots.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

rzdrmh said:


> time to play with sabots.


Yeah, sabots, bullets, powder charges, primers.....

Should be fun!


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## buckshot-0 (Nov 14, 2005)

Well I'm jumping on the BH209 band wagon. I got good groups with 100gr and 300gr SST's (under 1") and 240 XTP mag's (1 1/4"). I jumped up to 120gr and shot 1 3/4" w/ the XTP's and the SST's. The only thing that scared me a little was when I shot the 300GR SST's and 120gr charge, I got alot of blow by from my breech plug. Also, the primers were bulged on the side. Is that common for Omegas? I've never even shot 150gr T7 out of this gun. But all in all, this powder is a peach to load multiple shots and cleans up well. While I don't think it will make T7 or pyrodex obsolete, I think it is here to stay. I don't think the price is a big a deal as some make it out to be. I mean, how much are pellets per shot, really?


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## sourdough44 (Mar 2, 2008)

About your 120grn charge under a 300grn bullet. I use a 250grn SST & didn't even plan to use the 120grns. After some lighter charges I tried the 120 and was happy with it. Last year I has pass through on a doe with 90grns of Pyrodex. I don't have my data in front of me but I would be sure & stay at or under max charges for bullet weight.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

sourdough44 said:


> About your 120grn charge under a 300grn bullet. I use a 250grn SST & didn't even plan to use the 120grns. After some lighter charges I tried the 120 and was happy with it. Last year I has pass through on a doe with 90grns of Pyrodex. I don't have my data in front of me but I would be sure & stay at or under max charges for bullet weight.


With Blackhorn the max charge for anything 300gr and less is 120 grains. It is 100gr for anything above 300 grains.


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## TROUT TRACKER (May 21, 2002)

Well i got ahold of some this weekend and gave it a try I was very pleased with it, it seemed to live up to all its claims I fired 14 rounds through my Encore, with 200 gr dead centers, and 100 gr Blackhorn and achieved about a 2" group at 100 yds probably could have done better with a good rest (just shot off my elbows on a table) but I never had to swab between shots and loaded all 14 shots with no cleaning, and the last shot loaded and shot as good as the first. and clean up after words was a breeze 3 patches with a little hoppes and she was totaly clean and the breach plug came out with no effort matter of fact I think next time I will tighten the breech a little tighter I got into the habit of not really tightening the breech with the pyrodex because the plug some times seemed to be locked right in. Any body need any 50 cal pyrodex pellets? They can have mine!


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