# Easements



## ATB (Feb 17, 2006)

I have been looking at another property that I actually put a bid in last year but came back with legal access issue. The realtors of course said not a problem people have used the legally no existing road for years. I hired an attorney who said he could try to get a prescriptive easement but it would be $2 to $3k and not a guarantee of success, but also said it may not be a problem a lot of properties use the non existent road. Anyone deal with something like this? See hand drawing THere is a legal road and a legal easement both connecting to the non existent road.
Thanks 
Andrew


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## The_Don (Apr 28, 2008)

my buddy went through that a few years ago on a piece of land right off 69. The road used to run right past the property then when they put it 69 the road got shut down because 69 went across it. They eventually abandoned the road took out the bridge that crossed the creek leading to the property he was buying and split the road easement between the home owners on either side of the road. He got a lawyer and court dates trying to get them to open the road back up but to no avail. The only access to the property was to pull off the side off 69. Good luck!


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## blgoose44 (Oct 10, 2008)

Is there any other legal access to it? Nothing worse than getting 30 days into a loan on the property just to have the bank throw a flag on it. Landlocked property can't sell.


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## WoW (Oct 26, 2010)

Do NOT rely on the real estate agent. They are not licensed to practice law and should not be giving out that sort of advice.

You hired an attorney for a reason.

Now the kicker will be how you chose to negotiate the deal and if it gets to the closing table.


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## ATB (Feb 17, 2006)

I didnt buy it or the BS of the realtors. Its frustrating because I cant get a solid estimate from the atty of is it going to be $1500 or $15000 to make legal! Which is tough from a pricing stand point. Also the sellers are choosing to beliveve its not a problem and may not drop the price enough to make worth while!


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## ATB (Feb 17, 2006)

blgoose44 said:


> Is there any other legal access to it? Nothing worse than getting 30 days into a loan on the property just to have the bank throw a flag on it. Landlocked property can't sell.


 No I tried calling the surrounding landowners to purchase access vs paying an atty and was DEnied not interested!


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## WoW (Oct 26, 2010)

No real estate agent in his right mind would try and market a landlocked piece of property to somebody that does not have legal access.


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## PikeLaker (Sep 22, 2008)

When we got our driveway redone (concrete) it was determined that we were on the neighbors property already...pavers wouldn't touch it until we got an easement for a 1' x 60' section of land....neighbors were cool with it. Easement cost under $1,500.00. Yours might be a little more complicated (read $$$$) especially since you don't own it.
Also, I believe there is something in the law regarding "grandfathered use" (not the proper term) that basically says that if has been utilized a certain way for a certain period of time (20 years?) than there is no legal recourse for the property owner. We have that situation at our cabin... the driveway to the cabin is actually a thru two-track (that appears on maps). The guy we bought it from had tried several times to block access and the locals would cut down his gate posts etc. We took a different tact and put up signs at either end that say, "Thru Road, Private Property both sides of road." Figured we wanted the locals on our side, and in fact some the neighbors have complimented us for our handling of the situation.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

ATB said:


> I have been looking at another property that I actually put a bid in last year but came back with legal access issue. The realtors of course said not a problem people have used the legally no existing road for years. I hired an attorney who said he could try to get a prescriptive easement but it would be $2 to $3k and not a guarantee of success, but also said it may not be a problem a lot of properties use the non existent road. Anyone deal with something like this? See hand drawing THere is a legal road and a legal easement both connecting to the non existent road.
> Thanks
> Andrew


What do you mean by non-existant road.....If there is supposed to be a road there but isnt, It may still be an easement. I would go talk to the road commision they can tell you if they hold an easement. You could also go to the county and check the plat of that area.

Recently in Roscommon county there was a non-existant road that the Road commission went and cleared personal property out of the easement that people had claimed for decades......It went for 3 blocks, Right between some "lakefront" houses and the shoreline. They cleared out decks sidewalks etc,And put in right of way markers right through their yards. LOL.....and theres more to come.

Just because you dont physically see a road, Doest mean theres not one there.


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## ATB (Feb 17, 2006)

swampbuck said:


> What do you mean by non-existant road.....If there is supposed to be a road there but isnt, It may still be an easement. I would go talk to the road commision they can tell you if they hold an easement. You could also go to the county and check the plat of that area.
> 
> Recently in Roscommon county there was a non-existant road that the Road commission went and cleared personal property out of the easement that people had claimed for decades......It went for 3 blocks, Right between some "lakefront" houses and the shoreline. They cleared out decks sidewalks etc,And put in right of way markers right through their yards. LOL.....and theres more to come.
> 
> Just because you dont physically see a road, Doest mean theres not one there.


It exisits because its there and been used but its not on any state or county map as a legal municipal road. And no one knows who if anybody owns it privately.:sad:


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## PLUMMER47 (Dec 9, 2006)

WoW said:


> No real estate agent in his right mind would try and market a landlocked piece of property to somebody that does not have legal access.


Oh yes they would and do. Agents are as useless and greedy as any scam artist. They have one goal .....sell it, they also have very little responsibility if you later do find a problem. Just like this example. Anyone remember Greco title, remax, century 21 and the runaway builder were all involved with selling brand new homes to families in macomb county only to have the rightful landowner reclaim his property. These were 300K plus homes 14 of them.....howd they get a clear and clean title ???? Some had been living in the homes for 1 full year........

How many of you had the nice real estate recommended home inspector only to find out later that he was 100% useless. Always hire an attorney and your own inspector.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

ATB said:


> It exisits because its there and been used but its not on any state or county map as a legal municipal road. And no one knows who if anybody owns it privately.:sad:


 I am not talking about maps you would get from the store or even plat maps, They are not 100% accurate. I am talking about survey maps......Blueprints of that section.

The road commission and/or township/county clerk should have it. That will tell you what is or isnt there.....LEGALLY

I have checked them at my Township office in the past......But in your case I would try the Road comm. manager.


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## carpenter (Apr 20, 2006)

A land surveyer in that area should be able to determine whether an easment exists or not.


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## rocksted (Dec 13, 2010)

Depending on all your issues the grandfather thing may come into play. A recent case in sanilac county where the state aquired 1500 acres and opened it up to hunting. The DNR came in and posted public hunting signs all the way around on every corner. Well one land owner had used 3 acres as his own for over 20 years. Took the state to court and won. He now owns the 3 acres and the signs were moved.


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## WoW (Oct 26, 2010)

PLUMMER47 said:


> Oh yes they would and do. Agents are as useless and greedy as any scam artist. They have one goal .....sell it, they also have very little responsibility if you later do find a problem.


Do you even understand the difference between a sellers agent and a buyers agent?


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## ATB (Feb 17, 2006)

swampbuck said:


> I am not talking about maps you would get from the store or even plat maps, They are not 100% accurate. I am talking about survey maps......Blueprints of that section.
> 
> The road commission and/or township/county clerk should have it. That will tell you what is or isnt there.....LEGALLY
> 
> I have checked them at my Township office in the past......But in your case I would try the Road comm. manager.


Swamp I will try the county road commission. BTW all this info came to light when I went to closing and was given these findings from the Title company not just looking on a google map. I should have a different title because the easement over the eastern 40 is legally solid the road that runs north/south until the pavement ends is legal the dirt road between the 2 is what no one knows who owns. I looked at all the surrounding land owners for description on property via the county tax look up and nothing.
Thanks, for all the feedback.


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## WoW (Oct 26, 2010)

ATB said:


> Swamp I will try the county road commission. BTW all this info came to light when I went to closing and was given these findings from the Title company not just looking on a google map. I should have a different title because the easement over the eastern 40 is legally solid the road that runs north/south until the pavement ends is legal the dirt road between the 2 is what no one knows who owns. I looked at all the surrounding land owners for description on property via the county tax look up and nothing.
> Thanks, for all the feedback.


For starters, you should never have gotten to the closing table without your agent reviewing the preliminary title work (and in this case, referred you to an attorney).

While not totally accurate, if the county in question has GIS available, that would be a good start. Review the satellite drawings of the parcels in question and see if the boundaries are common if a road or other ROW is depicted. Don't bank on that though.

I would also recommend that you review the deeds of the adjacent property owners to see if there is an easement of record which would indicate the servient tenancy.

If no easements of record exist, then it is up to an attorney to go to bat to attempt to secure one and one has to ask, is it really worth the time and expense?

Easements are PITA no matter which side of the coin you are on because most of the time, a less than stellar approach was taken with them.


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## PLUMMER47 (Dec 9, 2006)

WoW said:


> Do you even understand the difference between a sellers agent and a buyers agent?


That would be affirmative, they both are looking for the commission....:lol:

Either way your gonna need an attorney to be properly prepared and protected. Something agents can't do. Many safe/legal/protected transactions occur without "agents"


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## WoW (Oct 26, 2010)

PLUMMER47 said:


> That would be affirmative, they both are looking for the commission....:lol:
> 
> Either way your gonna need an attorney to be properly prepared and protected. Something agents can't do. Many safe/legal/protected transactions occur without "agents"


Did you also know that your buyers agent is liable for their actions? Did you also know that competent buyers and/or sellers agents can and often do take care of what you feel that they cannot do?

You might be properly protected by hiring an attorney but, not necessarily "properly prepared" as you put it.

Attorneys typically limit their involvement to simply legal aspects, not negotiation. In fact, even attempting to involve attorneys in negotiations sometimes is akin to tossing a wrench in the spokes.

Sure, alot of transactions occur without agents....but, who really benefits when somebody trys to go it alone without the advantages that can be afforded with professional representation?

But...look at the majority of real estate transactions. Compare the number of closings handled by agents to that which were handled by attorneys. Then look at the FSBO crowd that really can make a mess of things.


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## Topshelf (May 24, 2005)

Plan A: Easements either exist as recorded documents or they dont. If your title company didnt find an easement for access, they may not have gone back far enough in time. I have found existing easements buried in the old record books/microfilm records that a title company never looked for. Not really feasible for the average Joe, BUT you can ask them to do a more through search and go back further in time. It will cost a few hundred bucks, but it will be cheaper than hiring an attorney to TRY and get a prescriptive easement. Nothing is for sure and even after spending big bucks for his time it still may not happen depending on what a Judge rules.

Plan B: I have delt with private and commercial owners obtaining Easements for 20 years. Sometimes it may just be your approach of the adjacent owners that gets you shot down. First, expect to pay for access. Second, go to them with a prepped easement document in hand, a check book and someone to notorize the Grantors signatures. Have a couple of different versions prepared. One is ingress and egress along with Utilities (If needed). The second is only for ingress and egress. The other option you may add in is a clause that states you wont split the property or turn it into a Subdivision. Sometimes thats all guys are worried about especially "Up North". Also go dressed like a average person for the area. Dont go dressed in a three piece suit, if your in the Country and expect anything but "no thanks". 

If you want some help on details, Document prep, etc., send me a PM


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