# slug gun vs muzzleloader



## SNIPER17HMR (Jan 11, 2008)

Looking to get a new gun this year was thinking of a high power rifle but i dont get above the shotgun line as much as i would like to so i am thinking of a new slug gun or muzzleloader any sugg.. and why


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## Brown duck (Dec 16, 2005)

The versatility and ability of more than one shot are nice from shotguns, but today's muzzleloaders are deadly accurate and probably give you more distance. 

A few more questions answered might help others: will you be hunting other game? How far are your longest shots? How far is your average shot? What type of terrain do you hunt int? In the woods or across fields? 

Good luck.


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## Chuckgrmi (Nov 6, 2007)

If it were me

I would get a shotgun with a slug barrel and a cantilever scope setup.

It is definitely more versatile for other types of hunting. You have the capability of a quick second shot if needed and although the muzzle loader might get you a tighter group at 100 plus yards, 98% of your deer shots are going to be under 60 yards.

I am a Remington guy so I would go 870 or 1187 12 ga.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

I'd buy the ML.....gives you another season to hunt and IMO multiple shots are way overated.


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## malainse (Sep 2, 2002)

KLR said:


> I'd buy the ML.....gives you another season to hunt and IMO multiple shots are way overated.




Encore--A great muzzy, can purchase rifle/shotgun barrels in about any caliber as you see fit. 

One weapon, unlimited uses....


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

I say muzzleloader over a dedicated slug gun. The only way to maximize a slug guns performance is to buy high end sabot slugs. At $15-$20 a box of 5 shells, forget it....most people won't invest the money to practice enough to actually maximize the performance potential of todays loads. Muzzleloader can get expensive, but you can still get great performance for less money per shot, plus the load combinations are almost endless. One well placed shot is all that is necessary. 

Buy a quality muzzleloader like a T/C Encore or Omega, Savage bolt, or Knight Long Range Hunter (LRH) and top it with as good a scope as you can afford. You'll be well suited to hunting deer anywhere is in the state.


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## jmoser (Sep 11, 2002)

100 yards and under = no difference, shotgun has advantage with multiple shots and 2nd bbl versatility. You can probably get better accuracy at any range with a good MZ but at normal ranges <100 yards this is mostly irrelevant.

Over 100 yards the slugs really start to drop off; at 150+ the MZ is your only true option and you can stretch it to 200 with lots of practice, range testing, and load development.

If you hunt the woods get the 12 ga, over open fields get the MZ.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

jmoser said:


> .
> 
> Over 100 yards the slugs really start to drop off; at 150+ the MZ is your only true option and you can stretch it to 200 with lots of practice, range testing, and load development.
> 
> .



Depends on the slug load. Look at the Ballistics of the Hornady SST round. It uses the same .45 cal 300 grain SST as a .50 cal muzzleloader and launches at velocities (from some slug guns) faster than full house loads in a muzzleloader. If you have a gun that shoots that load very accurately, (can be a big if!) it's a 225 yard deer load in the right hands. Give me a heavy barrel H&R 12 that likes those SST rounds and I'll take deer at those ranges in the right conditions....really no different from my Encore .50 cal with 300 grain SST/Shockwaves seated on 150 of pyrodex. One would have to invest some money in ammo though to get that kind of confidence etc, and most would not be willing.


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## jmoser (Sep 11, 2002)

Swamp Monster said:


> Depends on the slug load. Look at the Ballistics of the Hornady SST round. It uses the same .45 cal 300 grain SST as a .50 cal muzzleloader and launches at velocities (from some slug guns) faster than full house loads in a muzzleloader. If you have a gun that shoots that load very accurately, (can be a big if!) it's a 225 yard deer load in the right hands.


Point taken - one drawback to a .452" bullet in a 12 ga is the huge sabot needed to take up the space vs. bore diameter. This is often a main cause of mediocre accuracy I believe.

I agree - to get maximum advantage from this slug [3"] you want an extra heavy, extra long bbl like found on some of the break open single shot guns. Hey - now I need a 12 ga bull bbl for the Encore !! :lol:


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

jmoser said:


> Point taken - one drawback to a .452" bullet in a 12 ga is the huge sabot needed to take up the space vs. bore diameter. This is often a main cause of mediocre accuracy I believe.
> 
> I agree - to get maximum advantage from this slug [3"] you want an extra heavy, extra long bbl like found on some of the break open single shot guns. Hey - now I need a 12 ga bull bbl for the Encore !! :lol:


Very true...I know the SST's I've tried in a couple of guns were hit or miss! I've looked at the 28" pro Hunter rifled 12 for my Encore...$389 I think. I'll just stick to the muzzleloader!!! For most, the muzzleloader is the better option if long range work is going to be attempted...at least for now.


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## TIMfromTroy (Jan 24, 2005)

Honestly, my muzzleloader and my slug gun are my two least favorite guns.

The muzzleloader is very dirty to shoot and needs to be cleaned after ever few shots at the range. The one shot limitation while hunting goes without saying. Maximum range on a muzzloader is better but nothing beats the stopping power of the slug at close range. 

The slug gun has a punishing amount of recoil. Some people view being pounded in the shoulder all afternoon as some sort of a badge of honor, but I don't. Even a 2 3/4 inch slug generates an unpleasant amount of recoil. I would guess the recoil is twice that of a 30-06. The reference above to good slugs being $3 each is not an exageration. 

I think the unfortunate truth is that both of these guns are inferior to a modern smokeless powder rifles but if you are going to hunt in the SLP, you have to pick one and accept its limitations.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

TIMfromTroy said:


> but if you are going to hunt in the SLP, you have to pick one and accept its limitations.


Or, you could pick a Smith and Wesson revolver in .460 S&W and take deer out to 200 yards if you choose to spend big money on the handgun and ammo and then spend lots and lots of time at the range mastering the art of long range revolver shooting. I myself have not, but I like the idea! Just need to find an extra $2500 laying around for the gun and a couple cases of ammo!


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## PA BUCK 2 (Oct 17, 2006)

It sounds like you alraedy have a slug gun. Why not get the ML and then you can add a season to your hunting!!!???


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## malainse (Sep 2, 2002)

TIMfromTroy said:


> but if you are going to hunt in the SLP, you have to pick one and accept its limitations.


As Swamp said pistols will also fit the bill in SLP....

Contender or Encore pistol in straight walled gives you lots of options. From .357----45/70...


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## woodie slayer (Feb 25, 2006)

if i could only buy one it would be the M/L
longer range,better accuracy,cheaper to shoot ,an you get 2 seperate seasons to use it.


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## Critter (Mar 3, 2006)

Check out the Knight KP-1 or the T/C Encore. You can have rifle barrels, ML barrels, slug and shotgun barrels, very versatile.


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

i think muzzleloaders are so superior that i'd rather have two muzzleloaders in the field than one repeating shotgun!

in fact, i think that's what i'm going to do this weekend in the early firearms doe season!


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## ENCORE (Sep 19, 2005)

My 2 cents........
Get what ever you feel you would get the most use out of and be the most happy with. Unless you're rolling in money, either weapon of high quality is expensive. *If you're married, try purchasing the weapon that you end up not really wanting, then try to explain to the wife why you need to purchase another*
I've hunted exclusively with the muzz for so many years now, that I've forgot how many. I will say that when I bought my Rem 1187, I bought a rifled barrel, just wanting to try slugs again. Well opening day, buck runs buy......... 4 rounds...... hit nothing but dirt. Try explaining that to your hunting partners!!!! THAT DID THAT!! Back to the muzz *the next day!* Every deer I've dropped a cap on since has went into the freezer.
I gave up my lease down below, that I've had for 20 years, so this year will be different and a different firearm. I'll be using an old Marlin model 1881 in 40-60 this year.
*Read sentence three again and if it doesn't apply, read sentence one*:lol:


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## woodie slayer (Feb 25, 2006)

rzdrmh said:


> i think muzzleloaders are so superior that i'd rather have two muzzleloaders in the field than one repeating shotgun!
> 
> in fact, i think that's what i'm going to do this weekend in the early firearms doe season!


 

is that legal to carry two guns?it prolly is i know you can carry a pistol and long gun. just not with a bow


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## malainse (Sep 2, 2002)

woodie slayer said:


> is that legal to carry two guns?it prolly is i know you can carry a pistol and long gun. just not with a bow


Yup, as many as you want.....1, 2, 5, 10...:lol:


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## rcdan-o (Nov 13, 2004)

symen696 said:


> They need to be cleaned between every shot.


This is proving to be a thing of the past with the new powders like Blackhorn 209. Shooting all day with no swabbing, cleaning


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## Midwest Monsters (Nov 25, 2011)

I have owned all sorts of shotguns fully rifled barrel smooth bore pump you name it. After getting a TC Omega 50 cal T-Hole stock SS Fluted Barrel as a gift. I sold all but one shotgun a Win model 12 pump I use it for bird. I kept the scope & PRW low rings from my now sold slug gun it now rests on the Omega.
The scope is a Leupold VX-II 2-7 33mm for Shotgun/Muzzleloader & I love this setup. The gun cost much less then the deer slayer I got rid of but puts every slug gun in its path to shame in the field & at the range. People will tell you I like having a follow up shot but I say with shotgun range & accuracy you will need it. I can punch same holes with this setup off hand at 100+ yards & 10 mph winds have yet to do that with a slug gun.
Lets talk about energy or some call it knockdown power at point blank range shotgun wins hands down. Past about 60 yards not so much. The fastest bullet - sabot for slug gun I have seen & used move at 2000 fps with a kick that will insure you miss. Muzzleloaders of today can shatter that speed easy with Blackhorn 209 very clean stuff. No swabbing between shots & cleans up with oil based solvents aka > the stuff you clean non muzzleloading guns with. Recoil from the Omega is very soft allows me to hit what I aim for could shoot all day with no pain unlike slug guns.
Knock down power past 60 yards is better than a slug gun & can shoot out to about 300 yards if you setup for it with your load & scope. That's another thing you have control over your load is not tied to the ammo mills. It's cheaper to shoot a modern inline muzzleloader & buy one. Blackhorn 209 powder lasts till the last drop no shelf life unlike other powder. A 45 cal bullet in a 50 cal sabot has a BC of .190 ish & up that's why they can go out to 300 yards if you wanted & group better at any range vs slug gun. They can have high SD also if you want them to have it that's up to you higher SD give you pass thru performance.
With my shooting skills not the best by any means I will shoot out to 190 maybe 200 max yards. That's my limits not the guns & mind you that's off hand not on a sandbag rest at the range. At the range on a rest I could push it further. If I could use a rifle in my state I would still take the muzzleloader I don't plan on shooting at things near a mile away.

One thing you might want to consider if hunting bear or something that can kill you is a shotgun for knock down power. That's why cops use them at close range even the pros miss or place a bad shot from time to time.That's the only time I would want one on larger game hunt. 
I have never had a hang-fire or misfire with my Omega rain sleet or snow using Blackhorn 209 powder. I do my homework & clean my breech plug + fire channel also using correct primers help instructions are there for a reason. I can't stress that enough if you do not read the instructions on powder & gun manual you will blow yourself up with a muzzleloader. Being a muzzleloader user comes with a great responsibility in-depth understanding of gun-loads & great rewards. If you muzzleload you are required to be a reloader everytime you load that gun no 2 ways about it.
You are rolling your own ammo using the barrel for the shell case. Only you control what you put in there. This is a good place to start with accurate information http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2h.muzzleloader.htm Have fun be safe . Well that's my opinion about the subject hope it helps someone This may all look-sound very dangerous & complex to a newcomer but with a little reading & phone calls to makers of products with questions you may have. It's really not but that was not always the story not long ago. 

If you took the time to read all this you have the patience to go read more & become a very happy shooter. Who gets pestered all the time at the range or in the field with questions by the guys that can't get their guns sighted in just right. Or wonder why they missed or can't find that deer they shot- shot at. They will blame the equipment or ammo & waste more money trying more stuff. In the hope that they get lucky with something that works & call it good. With no control over the gun & load knowing what I know now I would never be able to enjoy shooting the same way. Would also be a less successful hunter & know it to be true.


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## cmonkey (Nov 6, 2004)

Speaking of Chuck Hawks, I suggest you research some of his articles on the Savage 220 F. There seems to be a lot of concern here regarding recoil. Believe you me, this one is just a *****cat, pushing a slug out at 1950fps, and is so accurate as to be rifle like. I'd buy another in a heartbeat. Type Savage 220f on your address line and see what others have to say. It's truly a revolutionary rifle....er...shotgun.


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## musicman34 (Oct 7, 2011)

I have a TC Encore in 209 X 50 and a 30-06 barrel. Both are topped with Leupold scopes. I had 3 shotguns set up for deer hunting. A 1100 12 ga. with cant. rifled bbl, 1100 20 ga. with cant. rifled bbl, and 870 12 ga. with cant. rifled bbl. Out of the 3, the 20 was the only one I wanted to use. It was very accurate with the Rem. Core-Lokt sabots, and it had very little recoil. The 1100 12 ga. had a terrible trigger and the best I could do at 100 with virtually all sabots known to man was about 4 inches. The 870 kicked like a government mule. I ended up selling both 1100's and gave the 870 to a person whose land I hunt on as a Xmas gift. My Encore now and forever will be my deer gun. I can use it anywhere in Michigan and I have another season to boot. And it is far more accurate than any of the shotguns. Get the ML.


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## basshunter125 (Mar 31, 2011)

sniper17hmr said:


> looking to get a new gun this year was thinking of a high power rifle but i dont get above the shotgun line as much as i would like to so i am thinking of a new slug gun or muzzleloader any sugg.. And why





=bass


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## basshunter125 (Mar 31, 2011)

H and r slug gun or cva accura


=BASS


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## Midwest Monsters (Nov 25, 2011)

I would guess if a person wanted to find recoil in a muzzleloader you could. Just load with a heavy bullet weight or a full bore & up your powder to near max load that would do it. Also using pyrodex triple 7 & such would increase recoil unlike Blackhorn 209 it just leaves a thin coat in the barrel. The others will not burn as much of the powder so having to push that stuff out with next shot will increase recoil. That's why you need to swab after every shot with them unlike Blackhorn 209. The softest shooting gun I have shot would be the savage 10ml-II but it is the only gun that I know of in the world of muzzleloading that can shoot smokeless powder. Burns most all the powder charge In turn reducing recoil among other things with that gun helping. I had the H&R Ultra Light slugger sb1s14 in 12 GA that was a cheap gun it was not the heavy bull barrel. I can't speak to the heavy barrel gun but the ultra light at 7 1/2 lbs really kicks. So hard in fact the cheap scope rail that they solder - glue to the barrel blew off the gun also stuck shells all the time be it 3 or 2 3/4 shells. Finding a slug W sabot that will fly right out of a slug gun is very hard-costly even the smaller bullets in a sabot. The smaller bullets still weigh more then most full bore muzzleloader bullets creating more recoil. Shotgun barrels vary in diameter allowing the thick sabots to skip rifling. The only cure I know to this would be a ammunition like lightfield sabot slugs the exp type that are over 1oz 99% lead so they will expand in the barrel closing gaps or diameter changes in the barrel. Be ready for a big reward kick a slug that heavy flying out of a 12 GA with no control over the powder behind it is gonna kick hard unless you have a very heavy gun 10lbs +. If I remember right a 12GA can range from 71 to 73 cal not listed in cal due to its varying inside barrel diameters. That's much of why shotguns measure in GA not counting the .410 shotgun. So that sabot around the bonded or hard shell bullets like the remington accutip sabot slugs has some big gaps to fill. With little help from the jacketed bullet they do not expanding like soft lead in the barrel forcing the sabot to the rifling closing the varying diameter gaps of a shotgun barrel. The sabot of a cal that big are tough they have to be & tend to skip down the barrel anyway. With faster fps ammo you need faster twist a 1-32 or 1 turn in 32" needs more time in the barrel to spin up not rattle out of the barrel or skip most the rifling. A 26" barrel moving jacketed undersized non in barrel expanding bullets in a tough sabot the size of 72 to73 cal full bore slug at 2000 feet per sec just can't get the twist they need even in a 1-28 twist barrel. Use a led slug of 54 cal or so 1oz or more in weight with sabot around them ammo like lightfield sabot slugs flying at 1400 to 1600 fps even in slowest twist or fastest & you will be happy. If you can keep the muzzle jump & recoil from effecting accuracy along with any cross wind that will move that large blob of led down range that is. Now you can see why I will take a inline muzzleloader with 1-28 twist. The sabot is 50 cal like the gun give or take a bit. The bullet is jacketed to cut wind better & is a longer bullet in 45 cal but will expand on impact. The sabot around this bullet will not need the bullet to expand in barrel & in that twist due to the sabots used are not as tough as ones in slug guns. They tend not to skip down the bore so 45 cal jacketed bullet 50 cal sabot use a thicker or thinner sabot to get a manageable amount of interference & still be able to load - seat the bullet and sabot but not to easy to load-seat. Modern inline muzzleloaders of today do not vary near as much in diameter as a shotgun but then again we are not trying to shoot a 40 cal bullet out of a 50 cal muzzleloader. Like shotguns shooting 45 to 58 cal bullets out of a 72 something cal gun with a sabot a knife has a hard time cutting into much less rifling. Note I did not make reference in cal to a 20GA gun but its much the same just different size. I would rethink cva imported guns with cheap imported barrels. They have blown up in peoples faces its all over the net tho that may be changing I would not chance it. I'll stick to a Co with a reputation & stands test of time Like Knight or Thompson center ect. If you want something that has been tested & proof tested not required by law for muzzleloaders but they did it anyways & you want to drop the cash on it. The Savage 10ML-II has been tested to 129,000 PSI-no other muzzleloader can make that claim. The Savage 10ML-II is the only muzzleloader made that can pass SAMMI centerfire standards. If I wanted to save cash but wanted a good muzzleloader TC Triumph would be my pick or Encore better yet cost a bit more I think but has same barrel as my Omega in 50cal with lots of options.


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## Midwest Monsters (Nov 25, 2011)

The Omega z5 would be a option but I like Stainless barrels. It would be my 1st pick if I wanted to keep cost low it may cost much less then the guns I listed but it will shoot just as good. You can have them mailed to your door in Iowa unless it can change barrels like the Encore the Encore needs FFL holder to transfer for that one in my state. Always good to check if your state dnr laws have restrictions on inline muzzleloader like cal can you use scope all good stuff to know some states even ban the use of blackhorn 209 & sabot type bullets crazy. Lucky my state is not one of them if it ever happens they can just grandfather mine I'll still use it. Just like my car with no seatbelts.


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## woodie slayer (Feb 25, 2006)

the m/l can be used in both the rifle season and the muzzy season..the slug gun can't be used in muzzy season.
the range of the new m/l is far greater than the slug guns.
i believe the accuracy is better too with the new m/l

only advantage i see with the slug gun is multiable shots if needed..
just my .02


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