# allegan (fall fishing) question



## magnumhntr (Aug 18, 2003)

I love this! Every year this topic comes up, and usually its MP bashing those who fish at dams. This week it's Allegan. Next week? Not *EVERYONE* that fishes there is a trailer trash, law breaking, snagger. Some people actually just want to fish. And seeing as the dam concentrates them, that is where most poeple go. Now I agree that there are a TON of violators there. But it's not every single person there. Alot are there just to fish. And just because someone hooks one foul, doesn't make them a snagger. Its the ones that keep the foul fish.

As for people sizing you up, maybe it's the general distain and seemingly poor attitude you have about the place. Maybe you project it and you're giving off bad vibes. Or maybe you're giving yourself too much credit? 

Just because someone fishes the stairs/wall doesn't make them a violator.


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## Optix Illusion (Jul 18, 2006)

If fishing practices from some people bothers you so, go up to the Little Manistee Weir sometime when the *Indians* are up there literally "STABBING" the fish with pitchforks, and the DNR cannot do anything about it.


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## Optix Illusion (Jul 18, 2006)

thousandcasts said:


> Uh...that right there is a contridiction. So what you're saying is that this person is "unaware," "uneducated" and "uninformed" as to them not knowing what is going on? Did they expect to show up to the river knowing everything? They don't know that they haven't got a clue what they're doing? A fact is concretely proven, so thus if me not having a clue about something is "fact" and I'm unaware of it, that's not ignorance, that's being technically brain-dead.


?????? Now their brain-dead fisherman? I think it disturbs some of you people "ON HOW" people try to catch the fish. This has nothing to do with them actually snagging a fish and keeping it. So yes, in a way they are unaware, uneducated and uniformed "ON HOW" to properly catch a fish. For some reason, some of you here, seem to "Interpret that in your own state of mind." This still has nothing to do with someone actually snagging a fish on purpose and keeping it, just the fact that it seems to bother people that some people are fishing in a area where a sign says "NO SNAGGING". 

Hopefully you kinda see the point now.


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

> Not EVERYONE that fishes there is a trailer trash, law breaking, snagger. Some people actually just want to fish.


Yep...I agree. Absolutely.



> ?????? Now their brain-dead fisherman? I think it disturbs some of you people "ON HOW" people try to catch the fish. This has nothing to do with them actually snagging a fish and keeping it. So yes, in a way they are unaware, uneducated and uniformed "ON HOW" to properly catch a fish. Hopefully you might see the point now.


Again, I could care less how someone hooks a king in the mouth. If some guy is lining the crap out of them with a pool cue and a piece of yarn, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me. But...again, the rule book is pretty clear about NOT keeping foul hooked fish--what part of that sentence confuses you? Do I feel a bit sorry for the newbie that's getting his stair fishing lessons from Cletus the Ripper? Of course, but as soon as said newbie lands a foul hooked fish and he throws it on the stringer, then that's where he damn well should've read his rule book OR at the very least asked someone what that big yellow sign meant. Of course, in your defense of the "ignorant" innocents, you're over-looking the fact that a newbie won't last 5 minutes on those stairs until someone is yelling, cursing or threatening to shove that newbie's rod where the sun doesn't shine. So really, your argument is hypothetical at best. 

By the way, I used the words "me" and "I" in that "brain dead" statement--as a metaphor more or less and I figured that statement wouldn't be taken out of context that way. Obviously, I was wrong...


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## MPsteelheader (May 2, 2000)

magnumhntr said:


> I love this! Every year this topic comes up, and usually its MP bashing those who fish at dams. This week it's Allegan. Next week? Not *EVERYONE* that fishes there is a trailer trash, law breaking, snagger. Some people actually just want to fish. And seeing as the dam concentrates them, that is where most poeple go. Now I agree that there are a TON of violators there. But it's not every single person there. Alot are there just to fish. And just because someone hooks one foul, doesn't make them a snagger. Its the ones that keep the foul fish.
> 
> As for people sizing you up, maybe it's the general distain and seemingly poor attitude you have about the place. Maybe you project it and you're giving off bad vibes. Or maybe you're giving yourself too much credit?
> 
> Just because someone fishes the stairs/wall doesn't make them a violator.


MP bashes everyone who you crappin :lol: 

the technique that is used on the stairs is where my problem lies...

it really is unfortunate that you cant see the point im trying to make here...

i came up with a solution and you take it as a personal attack on you...

why is that?

and as far as fishing dams...

haha who are you crappin???

i fish dams all the time(berrien, croton, ALLEGAN, tippy, sabin, hesperia, 6th st., ****** st., hamilton, ********, webber, and the list can go on forever)...

so for you to say im ripping somebody for fishing a dam is ludacris in my opinion...

but hey you are allowed an opinion and guess what so am i!


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## Optix Illusion (Jul 18, 2006)

Yep, I am a hypothetical clueless idiot. I fish in a area where a sign says "NO SNAGGING", even tho I'm not keeping any foul hooked fish or even mentioned about keeping any fish. 

So that always means if I fish in the area of the no snagging sign, regardless of my fishing method, this still makes me a snagger? Damn, am I ignorant!


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## MPsteelheader (May 2, 2000)

Optix Illusion said:


> Yep, I am a hypothetical clueless idiot. I fish in a area where a sign says "NO SNAGGING", even tho I'm not keeping any foul hooked fish or even mentioned about keeping any fish.
> 
> So that always means if I fish in the area of the no snagging sign, regardless of my fishing method, this still makes me a snagger? Damn, am I ignorant!


now im confused...

so what are you saying?


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## Optix Illusion (Jul 18, 2006)

> * the technique* that is used on the stairs is where my problem lies...


That is where ignorance falls in.:lol: Thanks for clearing that up!


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## Optix Illusion (Jul 18, 2006)

MPsteelheader said:


> now im confused...
> 
> so what are you saying?


I was probably replying to Thousandcasts at the same time you were replying to the other guy. I wasnt replying to your post.


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## Northlander (Jan 24, 2006)

I think the heat is really starting to get to some people.


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## ForestFisher (May 26, 2004)

I think a lot of people, on any river, are just playing a numbers game. The more fish they hook, the better chance they have of getting a mouth hook up. But the law is the law. You may not snag the fish and keep them, everyone "here" agree's on that. But if you have a set up that is legal, and you hook one in the mouth, you get to take it home! Can the C.O. bust you for jerking everytime you feel a bump? I guess I don't know. But if they see you keep a foul hooked fish, then they will bust you, and there would be no amount of excuses that would save you. 
The guys on the stairs at Allegan know EXACTLY what they are doing. When a C.O. comes around checking for licenses, (that usually is right at the moment hell freezes) things get a lot less "jerky". It really really sucks to have to say this because I do love to fish at the dam, (its a pretty good place to catch almost every kind of fish), but fall or spring dam fishing is what it is, and it's not likely to change any time soon. I can call RAP, but we all know that snagging calls are in-effective at best. I can't arest the guys my self, and telling them they can't do that will sometimes unleash Cleatus and the boys, and almost never will it cause them to feel bad about their violating ways (if they are indeed a snagger). I just don't fish there in the fall. I'd like to cause yes there are lot's of fish that would be fairly easy to catch. But I fish for the fishing, not for the fish. And snagging a salmon would not be fun, it wouldn't be fishing for me. Everyone fishing, anywhere, is responsible for their own fishing methods and for their fish take. Seasoned or newbie, brain-dead or Mr. Orvis, what you do is your's alone. When the sign says "no snagging" even if for some hypothetical reason you don't know what that means, if you keep a foul hooked fish, you have broken the law, PERIOD!!! In my opinion, the one thing that I, Jason, can do to actually make a difference, is just shape my kids into law abbiding sportsmen, and show them how rewarding it is to fool a fish onto your hook. They will know all the rules by the time they fish on their own I'll make sure of that. As for all the Allegan Stairmasters, I won't see them this fall, cause I won't be there, my choice. I'll catch a few salmon somewhere else, my choice. If they are foul hooked, I'll put them back, my choice! 
-FF


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## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

Man, I gotta go see this Allegan thing. Sounds like a hoot!
Maybe take a video camera and win $10,000.


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## FISH (Jul 14, 2002)

Optix Illusion said:


> If fishing practices from some people bothers you so, go up to the Little Manistee Weir sometime when the *Indians* are up there literally "STABBING" the fish with pitchforks, and the DNR cannot do anything about it.


i watched this last year. it was pathetic! they were recording them when they tried, the fish were stacked and they couldn't hit one


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

Optix Illusion said:


> Yep, I am a hypothetical clueless idiot. I fish in a area where a sign says "NO SNAGGING", even tho I'm not keeping any foul hooked fish or even mentioned about keeping any fish.
> 
> So that always means if I fish in the area of the no snagging sign, regardless of my fishing method, this still makes me a snagger? Damn, am I ignorant!




Again, your use of the word ignorant is misplacedin this case Id suggest you use delusional in its place since now you seem to want to argue a point that no one has suggested. First you suggested that No snagging doesnt mean No fishing, and no one is arguing that. Now, you go further off the deep end and say, So that always means if I fish in the area of the no snagging sign, regardless of my fishing method, this still makes me a snagger? I admire your zeal to defend the masses of upstanding, non-wife beating, law abiding stair dwellers, but in the process youre not helping your case by trying to find something that isnt there. Where in the world did you come up with the notion that by fishing in a No Snagging zone that it automatically makes a person a snagger? Since the entire state is a No Snagging zone, then that would make everyone who owns a fishing license a snagger if we go by your logic. No Snagging means just that. 

MP is exactly right about the lack of and substantially reduced amount of "hook setting" that goes on when a CO shows up. The guys actually fishing have no need to look over their shoulders. They guys trying to snag, however, suddenly develop a case of tennis elbow and will have the steadiest hands youve ever seen when that CO is around, but as soon as hes gone, they make a miraculous recovery and its drift, set, set, drift, set set. The guys "fishing" dont change a bit and carry on with their business. Somehow though, you seem to think that some of us are suggesting that No Snagging means No Fishing Nothing could be further from the truth, but I wont stand in your way as you forge ahead in this valiant quest to be the voice of the voiceless, naive innocents that so tragically get sucked into the seedy under belly that is the Allegan Dam. If one is a snagger though and they know they're a snagger, then perhaps a "No Snagging" sign could be construed as meaning "No Fishing." I mean, it can't be that much fun if one is constantly having to look over their shoulder, right?


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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

It is too bad people get stupid over kings. Like TC said, lining/tightlining kings is easy as pie, and alot more fun then straight rippin' them. In fact, lining is how I get my loose eggs for fall bows', better than cutting open an already dead, bloated, rotting king on the shoreline or in the shallows, and I'm not gonna walk around asking for pump, when a couple drifts on the gravel gets me all I need. Salmon are easy to get, especially when they're in thick, and the stuff people do to get them, or the stuff they do to each other over them is ridiculous. Like previously stated, do what you like to do, and have fun with it.


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## Northlander (Jan 24, 2006)

Hell, I've been accused of snagging fish with my bags N' bobbers, even tho the fish deliberately hit my bait on their own. So I guess were all snaggers! 

I'm just curious to as one would say if you start shooting fish with your bow and arrow, and you would say, oops I thought them were carp? Could I tell those were carp under the water? I'm not being ignorant am I? HAHA.


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

> and I'm not gonna walk around asking for pump, when a couple drifts on the gravel gets me all I need.


Yeah, I know guys that hang out at fish cleaning stations or wander around the banks looking for egg hand outs. To hell with that, I love fishing kings and a couple weeks, drifting on the gravel gets me all the chum I need. 

As far as I'm concerned, it's king time now and will be until the steel show up in worth while numbers. I'm not about to spend 8 hours on the river trying to find one or two early fall steelhead when there's literally thousands of kings to be had. When a good mid to late October blast of rain brings the steelies up in good numbers, then I switch over for the rest of the fall, winter and spring. Granted, nothing is better than a steelhead, but when the kings are there, might as well have fun with 'em until the steelie fishing gets good!


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## scotchass (Jul 10, 2004)

It would be wonderful if we could funnel all of the snaggers in the state to Allegan and other dams on warm water rivers and keep law enforcement out of the area, maybe they'll thin themselves out with the violence many of you speak of. what is truly devestating though is some of the snagging that goes on on some of the smaller rivers that do have natural reproduction. i fish a small river that gets no plants of salmon, all natural and strays, but because it gets very little attention for this fishery I've never seen a CO on the stream and 50 -75% of the people there during salmon season are snagging. I've called RAP and 911, but no one has ever walked through the 150 yards of swamp to see whats actually going on. My sister lives down the road from a CO up that way and I hope to touch base with him before the run gets going to try to get some attention this year. Like i said before, give them Allegan, but we have to do something about the small coldwater rivers.


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## MPsteelheader (May 2, 2000)

Northlander said:


> Hell, I've been accused of snagging fish with my bags N' bobbers, even tho the fish deliberately hit my bait on their own. So I guess were all snaggers!
> 
> I'm just curious to as one would say if you start shooting fish with your bow and arrow, and you would say, oops I thought them were carp? Could I tell those were carp under the water? I'm not being ignorant am I? HAHA.


hey i thought you were a spey guy???:lol:


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## Northlander (Jan 24, 2006)

MPsteelheader said:


> hey i thought you were a spey guy???:lol:


I smell sarcasm from another thread, haha. No, I don't use speys. I use Snoopy Poles or Barbie Poles, with Spongebob Squarepants bobbers. Shhh, don't tell noone.


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

Northlander said:


> I smell sarcasm from another thread, haha. No, I don't use speys. I use Snoopy Poles or Barbie Poles, with Spongebob Squarepants bobbers. Shhh, don't tell noone.


Since I take my three-year old sons out fishing with me all the time, I'm going to make it my mission to not only hook, but land a steelhead on a 2' long close-faced Taz rod with a SpongeBob bobber!


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## Northlander (Jan 24, 2006)

thousandcasts said:


> Since I take my three-year old sons out fishing with me all the time, I'm going to make it my mission to not only hook, but land a steelhead on a 2' long close-faced Taz rod with a SpongeBob bobber!



Ditto. I'm still looking for the Bugs Bunny limiited edition. HEHE


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

thousandcasts said:


> Since I take my three-year old sons out fishing with me all the time, I'm going to make it my mission to not only hook, but land a steelhead on a 2' long close-faced Taz rod with a SpongeBob bobber!


You could, but you'd have to free spool to do it. So there in lies your moral dilema.


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## Erik (Jan 17, 2000)

> I'm not about to spend 8 hours on the river trying to find one or two early fall steelhead when there's literally thousands of kings to be had.


You might be surprised how many steelhead there are in certain rivers during the months of aug, and sept. 
When I say that I fish steelies and browns year round. What I mean is I use the same techniques year round. I've found that I often catch kings in the same places and using the same techniques as I do for fall and winter steelhead. And since I don't care to fish combat style, or for fish that are actively spawning, (incidently those two activities always seem to go hand in hand) I have found solice in "searching" for steelhead and browns and catching the occasional biting salmon or two while doing so. 
I search for them in amoungst log jams, deep holes, feeder creeks, and sometimes even below a group of spawning kings. While other people are intent on fishing for the fish that they can see, I have grown fond of fishing for fish that I can not see. 
No offense intended what so ever in what I just said. I don't mind people fishing for spawning fish at all. Even if you want to line them. As long as your abiding by the rules I don't care how other people fish. I just get frustrated myself when I can see fish right out in front of me and they won't bite.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

All this after Steve says he's not a "numbers guy". Or wait, I think the wind is currently blowing in the direction of he does like numbers:lol: 

I'm with Erik. I love fishing steelhead in September. I especially love site fishing them around pods of prespawn kings in slot water.


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

I have no problem admitting I'm a numbers guy. If I'm completely honest with myself, then I've come to the conclusion that I enjoy racking up the numbers--not for bragging purposes at at all, but I love fighting fish! If it comes down to it being September or early October and the choice is between flogging the water all day for two steelhead and a bunch of dink stream browns OR hooking up with 50 kings, give me the kings any day of the week. 

Now, when it gets into late October and November, that's a different story, but up until that point "that's what I'm talkin' about!"  

Any day on the water is a good day in the late fall and winter, but even then I won't complain one bit about double digit steelhead days.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

"It would be wonderful if we could funnel all of the snaggers in the state to Allegan and other dams on warm water rivers and keep law enforcement out of the area, maybe they'll thin themselves out with the violence many of you speak of."

I've got to watch out for logs, rocks, sand bars, muskrats (don't ask), trash, and other boats while on the K-zoo already. I don't want to be dodging snagger corpses all day.

Anyone else amazed by the amount of trash in the river just below the dam? Every trip out we fill small garbage can with trash from a log jam as a token of appreciation to the fish for letting us use their river. One time while doing that (I won't let me nephew lean over the boat) he jigged a spawn bag under us and hooked up with something, briefly...

FBD, Holland, MI


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## Northlander (Jan 24, 2006)

In a sensible way, I try not to target too many steelhead in the really early fall season. (Unless your intentions are keeping fish.) I found when the water is still a wee bit too warm, mid 60"ish" or just slightly higher sometimes, alot of the steelhead have a tendency to turn upside down after a gruesome fight. I don't know if any of you here ever experienced something like that, but I have on several occasions. Sometimes, no matter what I do to slowly revive the fish (sometimes 10 minutes or more), I still practice by not lifting the fish out of the water, and it doesn't seem to matter. I can see what TC is saying about fishing at a later date, early / mid October, and from then on. I prefer myself as well just to hold off for a little bit, while the waters cool down. Till then, I will stick with my panfishing.


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## Northlander (Jan 24, 2006)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> I've got to watch out for logs, rocks, sand bars, *muskrats (don't ask)*, trash, and other boats while on the K-zoo already. I don't want to be dodging snagger corpses all day.



Hehe, I've been there before, but instead of hooking a muskrat, I accidently somehow hooked a beaver in the back, while I was night fishing. After over an hour of battle, I was still able to bring him in and luckily release my hook! Thank goodness for extremely long hemo pliers!


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## eriksteelmaster (Mar 19, 2005)

What are you talking about I have been going down to the Allegan dam for years now and have yet to see a fight or stabbing. I have had my share of arguments but it stopped with that. And of course you always have tose guys that have been drinking all day and the night before that are just *** holes and they are the ones I car my club for if ya know what I mean. Well it has been fun and remeber there are very few dumbasses down there so do'nt let those few re-nobs ruin your salmon or steelhrad fishing.


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## FISH (Jul 14, 2002)

like someone else said

walk softly, but carry a big stick, and don't be sfraid to use it on 'em:lol:


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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

> I'm not about to spend 8 hours on the river trying to find one or two early fall steelhead when there's literally thousands of kings to be ha


Me too, though I do poke around a bit on the AS the first week of October, sometimes earlier for the heads', just not real serious. I get serious around the 20th of October.


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