# Proposed Trapping Reg Changes



## griffondog (Dec 27, 2005)

FixedBlade said:


> Griff. These rules pertaine to open water snaring not under ice, as I read them. Maybe we need to ask if these changes effect under ice also.


 
d) 
Notwithstanding the other provisions of this order, a snare may be used from December 1 to March 31 for taking beaver IN WATER OR UNDER ICE. provided the location at which the snare is placed is ice covered. Snares shall be made of 1/16 inch or larger cable. SNARES NOT UNDER ICE MUST HAVE A LOOP WHICH IS AT LEAST HALF SUBMERGED AND BE SET IN A FASHION TO HOLD THE BEAVER COMPLETELY SUBMERGED. SNARES SHALL BE EQUIPPED WITH A STOP TO PREVENT THE LOOP FROM CLOSING TO A DIAMETER LESS THAN 5 INCHES. Snares shall be removed from the water and made inoperative within 24 hours after the close of the period in which snares may be used to take beaver. 
3.608 Bobcat open seasons, season limit, closed areas, restrictions; kill tags and tagging requirements; registration requirements; unlawful acts. 


The way I read this all snares must have a stop.

Griff


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## FixedBlade (Oct 14, 2002)

That was not in the email I received. Here is what I got.

Open water beaver snaring: 

Beaver trappers have requested the use of snares for beaver in open water situations. The Department recommends allowing snares to be used in the water for beaver on a drowning set only. This additional tool is not expected to significantly change beaver harvest or trapper effort. A drowning set requirement reduces the potential for pelt damage with the use ofopen water snaring. Snares set on beaver dams or lodges must be completely submerged. Snares in other locations must be at least half submerged. A stop to prevent the loop from closing to a diameter less than five inches will be required to reduce the incidental catch of otter and to alleviate concerns with the potential for other non-target incidents.


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## FixedBlade (Oct 14, 2002)

I got this persons contact info off the net. Start calling and sending emails.

Persons wishing to provide public comment on any DNR issue to the NRC should contact Teresa Gloden at 517-373-2352 or [email protected]


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## Beaverhunter2 (Jan 22, 2005)

FB, You are reading the letter. Griff posted the proposed wording of the Act itself which is also in the thread on the MTA site. If you got the email I sent, it's further down. The Act is the law and, as I read it, requires stops on under ice snares as well.

That's one more issue I have with the DNR- they write laws that are poorly woded and can be interpreted different ways or that restrict things they weren't intended to. For example: the trap bait law, the definition of "traps designed to hold animals alive", carrying .22 rimfires while checking traps during deer season in the Shotgun Zone, the restriction preventing hunting '***** at night with a call, etc....

John


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## LarryA (Jun 16, 2004)

Just for the record guys, I feel those new laws are too restrictive. It is a shame that the biggest issue facing body grip traps is trapper education, and we aren't even giving trapper education a chance to prove itself before making such a big jump in regulations.


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## Gary A. Schinske (Jul 10, 2006)

For those of you who want to send e-mails on the proposed regulations, here is how to send to one place which then will be forwarded on to the NRC members: 

AGENDA  NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION 
May 7, 2009 
Page 4 
If you are unable to attend the Natural Resources Commission meeting but wish to submit written comments on Agenda items, please write to: Natural Resources Commission, P.O. Box 30028, Lansing, Michigan 48909 or e-mail at: [email protected] . If you would like further information on Agenda items or would like to address the Commission, please contact Teresa Gloden at 517-373-2352, or e-mail: [email protected] . Persons with disabilities needing 

While this will help, nothing replaces snail-mail. Do what ever you can do, but we need volumes to these commissioners. IT IS FOR YOUR FUTURE!


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## Dave Lyons (Jun 28, 2002)

More brain power please somewhere. I sure hope when we get rid of the gov. we also get a new NRC


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## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

I plan on going to this meeting, what time and where? do I need to do anything but show up to speak? who will be there?


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## Beaverhunter2 (Jan 22, 2005)

Dave,

Don't give up on the NRC! They haven't voted on any of these proposals (yet). They are also the group that gave us the NLP Bobcat Trapping Season and that decided to appeal the original judge's decision. I think they can be educated- and we need to try!

John


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## FixedBlade (Oct 14, 2002)

Gillgetter. Here is some info for you.

I will also go to this meeting if anyone from the Grand Rapids area wants to go. We can take my truck, just split gas. It can hold 4 persons.

NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION AGENDA May 7, 2009 UAW-GM Center for Human Resources 200 Walker Detroit (Unless otherwise noted, all meetings are open to the public.) 1:00 p.m. NRC POLICY COMMITTEE ON WILDLIFE AND FISHERIES Rooms 1601 and 1603 1. Wildlife Regulations a. Deer Regulations-Open/Closed DMUs b. Furbearer Regulations c. Wolf Regulations d. Michigan Bear Management Plan e. Pure Michigan Hunt 2. Mike Bodenchuck of Texas Wildlife Services - Urban Wildlife - Feral Hogs 3:00 p.m. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE Rooms 1601 and 1603 1. Directors Action Items  Discussion 2. Legislative Update 3. Washington, D. C. Report 4. Spend Plan 5. Detroit Riverfront Update 4:30 p.m. PUBLIC APPEARANCES BEFORE THE NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Rooms 1601 and 1603 5:00 p.m. SHIKAR-SAFARI OFFICER OF THE YEAR AWARD


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## SNAREMAN (Dec 10, 2006)

So the way I read it,the public can address the NRC at the 5 o'clock meeting?I plan to go no matter what time,but don't want to spend the whole day sitting around doing nothing.


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## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

Glad to see some of you are going to make it to the meeting. like someone said in another post, this is OUR future.IF we dont show up who will.


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## Beaverhunter2 (Jan 22, 2005)

I have a work meeting I can't miss until 4pm (+) in Pontiac. Hopefully I'll be able to make it down in time.

John


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## Gary A. Schinske (Jul 10, 2006)

The public appearances start at 4:30. If you want to address the commission you have to register ahead of time. The last time I addressed the commission we were limited to only 4 minutes. I doubt that has changed, but you can ask that when you register with Teresa Gloden as follows: *
If you would like further information on Agenda items or would like to address the Commission, please contact Teresa Gloden at 517-373-2352, or e-mail: [email protected] . *Persons with disabilities needing accommodations for the meeting should contact Teresa Gloden at 517-373-2352. 

Don't forget, this meeting is in Detroit not Lansing.


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## Dave Lyons (Jun 28, 2002)

John,

Hope your right. Because why give us a tool that won't work right off the get go.


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## 9 (Jan 17, 2000)

*Eureka!! I've figured it out!!* 
This CR stop business has to do with the State's/DNR "Stimulus Plan"! Here we have useless CR's with a 4.25" stop alread in the Regs and now we have proposed, useless CR's with a 5" stop in addition! Two CR Regs with different stop-loop sizes! Meaning we can't shift equipment from canines to beavers(IF somebody wanted to), we *HAVE TO BUY NEW!!!* Hey, more revenue for the State! Dang, our DNR is so smart! Who would have thunkit!:SHOCKED:

I was only able to come to this conclusion while boiling traps today and having a couple of Leinenkugel Red pops!


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## Rustyaxecamp (Mar 1, 2005)

You may be on to something........ Boiling traps and Leinies.... Sounds like a plan.


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## 9 (Jan 17, 2000)

There you go Gary, you just verified that the DNR must have an "Assumption" Csar position!

Nope, you can't Gary, your commonsense score falls *way above* the DNR median test score. Your score has to fall *below* the median to qualify!:lol:


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## Hap Jones (Jan 29, 2003)

http://www.sdgfp.info/Publications/OtterAvoidanceBrochure.pdf

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/3353.htm


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## Joe R. (Jan 9, 2002)

Hap you can be disappointed with Gary's comments all you want, but otter are a legal to harvest in this state. The likely hood is much greater that an otter will be caught in a conibear then in a snare. Unlike some we are looking at all the variables. Catching a beaver in a snare set up with the loop stop will cause fur damage to some beaver. As trappers we try like crazy to promote the humaneness of the tools we use. Then the DNR comes up with this garbage thinking they are saving the world when all they are really doing is making things worse. These proposed snare regs for beaver and the ones we are stuck with for canines have no business being in the books. DNR is even trying to do a study on the current canine snaring regs we have now. Been going on for 2 years now. The last I heard they haven't been able to capture enough critters to even begin a study. Geez I wonder why???

Basically what it boils down to is the trappers in this state should be fed up with being force fed new regulations with no validity or merit. If they want to change the regs study the proposed change BEFORE making the change. Once something is in the books it takes forever to reverse them.


Joe


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## griffondog (Dec 27, 2005)

Hap Jones said:


> http://www.sdgfp.info/Publications/OtterAvoidanceBrochure.pdf
> 
> http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/3353.htm


 
Since your first link wont open for me I'll assume it's the same as the second one.

I'm kind of proud of Gary at least he still has a sence of humor I don't anymore! 

Let's see I've caught otter in mink sets and even a dryland fox set but never in a beaver snare. I've caught otter in **** sets and 330 beaver sets but never in a beaver snare. So lets make up some regs to protect a animal we can already trap. Where is the logic in that?

I't kind of reminds me of the same logic that makes me tell a kid he has to club his fox ,coyotes and other trapped animals in the shotgun zone during deer season because he can't use a 22 for dispatch.

Same logic that takes god knows how many years to approve a trappers ed course so we could possibly help educate new trappers on how to avoid making bad decisions on set locations.

How about dryland snaring regs that you would lose 75% of the animals caught?
If our original snares were such a problem how did the problem go away when no one buys legal snares in this state? I ask the trapping supply houses all the time how many Michigan snares do they sell in a year. I get laughed at.

So why don't you explain why Gary's remarks disappoint you?


Griff


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## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

your disappointed. why? you have pointed out what you see as a problem, but have not offerd any solution. what do you think would solve the problem?

As far as gary, the guy busts his butt.instead of pointing at him you mite want to jump on in, give him some help. easy to point the finger, not always easy to come up with a solution.


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## Beaverhunter2 (Jan 22, 2005)

Hap, It's interesting that neither of the two states you quote _require_ a stop of any sort on snares. In South Dakota, you have choice between a 2 1/2" loop stop and a 350lb break-away. (I'd choose the break-away.) In Indiana, the snare must be half in the water or use a relaxing lock. It sure would be nice to have either of these states' Snaring Regs!

Now I know why I'd never heard of a stop on a beaver snare- because no one uses them! :idea:

John


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## Gary A. Schinske (Jul 10, 2006)

Both the states you reference start out by saying that a snare with a loop size of 9 to 11 inches will let most otter pass while catching beaver. That was the idea behind open water beaver snaring, we have had under ice beaver snaring for many years. New regulations do not distinguish and require a deer stop on ALL beaver snares. Open water beaver snaring was just giving the trappers another tool to harvest beaver and avoid otter better than any other trapper's tool. They also say with the stop, you can still catch beaver but behind the front legs. Who in their right mind would advocate body catches by snares as a humane tool for trappers? Please look at the entire picture.


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