# Shockwave or Power Belt Bullets??



## Paperboy 1

What is everyones choice in this category and why?? I have been shooting Power Belts for 2 seasons and tried TC's Shockwaves yesterday. I tried them twice!! For some reason they are a beeeetch to get in the barrel. I like to shoot 2 pellets of Triple Seven with a 240-245 grain bullet. Any other brands work well?? Thanks.


----------



## giver108

Use the Shockwaves. If you do a search on this very topic in the Shooting/Firearms forum you will find enough info to read to last you the rest of the day.


----------



## Paperboy 1

giver108...Any idea as to why the Shockwaves are so darn hard to get started in the barrel?


----------



## CMR

I also use Shockwaves and haven't found them hard to load.


----------



## kerby1

There are probably only one reason you will ever hear to use Powerbelt bullets; ease of loading. I have always shot them and have never had a problem. I have shot four deer, with zero yards of tracking to date. I find they are easy to load and shoot good groups from my gun. 

If you read about the bullet themselves you will find that they are not concidered a good round; using the cooper jacketed piece of lead. Can't remember all the scientific information, but in tests they do not compare with the sabot rounds. 

I tried using the sabot rounds, I a brand called dead centers, could not get great groups and horribly difficult to load. I know I am using a less than superior round with the Powerbelts, but will stick with them because of the groups they shoot and the easy loading and based on my experience with the rounds.


----------



## uptracker

Every muzzleloader bore has different tolorances, therefore; some bullets may be really tough to start and others won't. I buy sabots first, that match my bores diameter, from MMP. Then I buy bullets that'll fit.

I've heard a lot of bad things about Powerbelts...A LOT! I won't even put them in my gun.

I use Honady 240 gr. XTP's. I buy them in a box of 100...cheaper than buying a box of 20 sabots and bullets.


----------



## mparks

Paperboy 1 said:


> giver108...Any idea as to why the Shockwaves are so darn hard to get started in the barrel?


Your muzzleloader probably has a tighter bore. That's why there are sabots available from MMP and Harvester that are smaller in diameter. Lot's of guys use the Harvester crush rib for ease of loading. You could also look into the Hornady SST and T/C SW(same bullet, different colored tip) that are packaged with the easy-glide or whatever sabots.


----------



## jdawg240

A thin coat of bore butter and they slide in no problem. I use a pea size amount and lightly coat the plastic sabot.


----------



## wally-eye

Slick glides..


----------



## mikieday

i used pwr belts in my knight for a few years and when i upgraded to my winchester i used them but the gun didnt throw them well....i started using 200g shockwave (45 cal) 2 years ago and love them...they group awesome and do the job on the deer


----------



## mike1965

Shockwaves.Powerbelts did not shoot good out of my gun"Traditions evolution"


----------



## GATORGETTER

I also used to shoot powerbelts, only pass through I ever had was through the guts. Also I could not get them to group well so I switched to T/C Superglide Shockwave 250gr. sabots. Shockwaves are also usually cheaper. What a difference, I have total confidence in my gun now. I also filled my doe permit friday, double lung pass through, Stevie Wonder could have tracked it. As far as loading, I shoot an encore and the end of the barrel is (opened up) to help with ease of loading. The bullet is completely inside the barrel before you have to use the ramrod. My dad has a CVA Wolf, his is not opened up at the end and the same bullets are hard to start. Anyone who shoots a Thompsen Center M/L will know what I'm talking about. Also a clean barrel will help any gun load easier. I swab mine after every shot while target shooting. It helps with accuracy and easy loading.


----------



## DEDGOOSE

The girlfriend and I both shot SSTs last year. Her Optima Elite would shoot sub inch at 100 and shot pretty well also outta the encore. 

The SST performed awesome for her on a doe last year and than I shot a doe perfectly and had absolutely no blood, lucky I watched the deer drop. 

We switched to XTPs this year and they shoot almost as well as the SST. 

Another bullet that is awesome that has not been mentioned is the Barnes Grand Slam tipped.


----------



## OMhunter

Just shot a large doe this morning, 245 gr Powerbelt, 2 50grain magnum 777 pellets. Shot was 110 yrds. Complete pass thru, perfect shot in one shoulder, right thru the heart, and right out the other shoulder. My groups are great, I don't understand why people are so against the Powerbelts! All this out of a CVA Optima W/ a Meuller scope!! Can't wait for the next shot!!!


----------



## jjc155

OMhunter said:


> perfect shot in one shoulder, right thru the heart, and right out the other shoulder.


Is that even possible, anatomically speaking? Just curious (I checked a deer anatomy chart just to be sure, didnt look like it to me).

You should shoot what ever your gun shoots best with in your price range. 

With that said I shoot Hornady 250gr SST's (same bullet as the Shockwaves, Hornady makes both) for just about 1.5 MOA at 100yards. 

I use the regular (not the easy glide sabot) and have no problems getting them down the barrel and seated. My opinion is the tighter the fit with the sabot the better your accuracy is gonna be to begin with.

While working up my current load I actually researched Powerbelts. WAY to many negatives than postives that I found. I took them out of the running for me based on all the negatives.

Check out modernmuzzleloader.com and you will find all kinds of info on muzzleloaders, powder, round etc.

J-


----------



## mrbreeze

I've been shooting powerbelts for a number of years, hollowpoint 245s I believe, and have taken a number of deer with them. I don't see a reason to switch....


----------



## bigbucksstop

I've shot both and my gun shoots the shockwaves a heck of alot better. Shoot whatever shoots best in your gun.


----------



## STEELCHASER5150

GATORGETTER said:


> I also used to shoot powerbelts, only pass through I ever had was through the guts. Also I could not get them to group well so I switched to T/C Superglide Shockwave 250gr. sabots. Shockwaves are also usually cheaper. What a difference, I have total confidence in my gun now. I also filled my doe permit friday, double lung pass through, Stevie Wonder could have tracked it. As far as loading, I shoot an encore and the end of the barrel is (opened up) to help with ease of loading. The bullet is completely inside the barrel before you have to use the ramrod. My dad has a CVA Wolf, his is not opened up at the end and the same bullets are hard to start. Anyone who shoots a Thompsen Center M/L will know what I'm talking about. Also a clean barrel will help any gun load easier. I swab mine after every shot while target shooting. It helps with accuracy and easy loading.


 I'm shootin a t/c omega, and i also use the shock wave superglides250gr,with110 grns pioneer powder,,,,awsome out of my gun, getting 2'' groups at 150yds.


----------



## ENCORE

OMhunter said:


> Just shot a large doe this morning, 245 gr Powerbelt, 2 50grain magnum 777 pellets. Shot was 110 yrds. Complete pass thru, perfect shot in one shoulder, right thru the heart, and right out the other shoulder. My groups are great, *I don't understand why people are so against the Powerbelts*! All this out of a CVA Optima W/ a Meuller scope!! Can't wait for the next shot!!!


Ok, here's my reason for not shooting that totally worthless bullet. Getting groups with a rock is great too. But when bullets do what this one did, they're not going to be fired out of any of my rifles again.
Story: Doe, standing broadside, yardage approximately 50-55 yds. Shot went tight behind the shoulder, complete pass thru. Now, this deer was standing in winter wheat and on the side of a hill. Once I fired, I watched the deer run through the open (snow on ground) wheat field for probably 120 yds and piled up. Good thing I seen where it went and that it piled up. Tracking a blood trail wasn't going to happen, because there wasn't any! Had that deer been in the woods or in thick brush where I couldn't have seen it pile up, I'd have thought I missed it. I pulled this* worthless* bullet out of the ground. Glad I saved it. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Not just talk....HERE'S THE PROOF!
You can see it closer and a more clear pic in my photos.


----------



## Trout King

I'm no longer a powerbelt shooter for the same reason as Encore. Last year I started out with them. They shot great groups. The day after Thanksgiving my buddy and I were sitting over a cut corn/bean field. Doe comes in early. 50 yards. Shoot...down she goes. Buddy said I hit her behind the shoulder. The deer gets up and runs! Through the woods out of sight. Not one drop of blood. After she got to one of the neighbors (who doesn't allow tracking) we gave up. Got back in the blind. Here comes a nice little buck. I hand my buddy the gun. 150 yds. Bang! Heart shot the deer ran 100 yds without a spot of blood. We search and search. Follow his tracks, then he gets to a swamp where trails all intersect. No luck finding him. Next morning go looking find him piled up with no blood even where he fell. Switched to XTP's problem solved.

Makes me wonder if I actually killed the buck of a lifetime a few years ago opening day. Gun was right on sighting in 2 days before. 90 yds...broadside. Monster 8 pt. Bang! Looked for blood where he ran. Checked the trails where he entered the swamp, and no blood. Thought I must have missed, but now I wonder if he was laying in there dead. Powebelt lost my business after too many bad experiences.


----------



## duxdog

I've shot a bunch of deer with powerbelts and have never lost one or had one go more than 50 yards. It does concern me that there is alot of negative stuff about them.


----------



## oldrank

I tried to shoot them out of my mk 85 Knight .50 cal........I sighted in at 100 yrds and about one out of 5 hit the paper tumbling......I gave the whole box to a buddy and switched back to my Hornady copper jacketed hollow points......I have always had great accuracy with them and get a good mushroom from em after shooting deer......


----------



## ENCORE

duxdog said:


> I've shot a bunch of deer with powerbelts and have never lost one or had one go more than 50 yards. It does concern me that there is alot of negative stuff about them.


If they're working for ya, God Bless ya. Yes, there are those that swear by them. But, the proof is in the picture above and in the majority of the other posts.
I've a friend (who I need to call) that started using them, even after a bunch of us at work had bad expierences with them. He started when he bought his new Omega. He fired a few rounds to center up his scope and was ready for the opener, which was only a few days away. He loaded it one last time and left it in his garage. Opening day, he shot at what he said what would have most likely been his biggest buck. He never touched the buck. That evening, he had another opportunity to take a buck. Fired and never touched the deer. Now.... he's a seasoned deer hunter. No buck fever, so don't even add that to a thought. Next day, he tried to hit his target and couldn't! It wasn't the scope or the rifle. It was shooting all over the place! He switched to XTP's and has killed every deer that he's shot at with it. Of course, I need to call him and check in this year.
I look at it this way, if so many people are having some sort of problem with them and, the one that I retrieved looks like it does, why shoot that bullet??? Just doesn't make sence to me!
Good luck with em.......


----------



## ENCORE

See if I can't do it right this time









JUNK !


----------



## Leelanauman

I use P.B. 245 gr. hollow point. I have never shot a deer, new to muzzleloader. I do get good groups at 100yrds though. It'll be interesting to see what happens.


----------



## Swamp Monster

I won't shoot at live animals with powerbelts, period. Personaly, having seen enough poor performance from these things leads me to believe that it is borderline inhumane. Thank CVA for their poor quality control.....you can get away with it in a gun from time to time, but not in bullets. The problem with Powerbelts is that you don't know what your getting...in some the lead is to brittle and it either doesn't expand, or it literally breaks apart into nothing. Some are so soft they over expand and get little penetration. One more thing, the copper in COLOR....it is not a jacket! It;'s a copper colored hunk of lead! They fool people that know nothing about bullets into thinking it's jacketed. Hey it works apparantly! I know they have a nickel jacketed model now and maybe their quality control is better today but sorry, I'll stick to companies like Hornady and Barnes...you know the companies that are bullet makers by trade! Too many good choices out there to handicap myself.


----------



## michigander II

ENCORE said:


> See if I can't do it right this time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JUNK !


 Hard to tell, but I can't really see any rifling grooves in that bullet.:yikes: I used to use them too and since gave up on them. I use the Barnes Expanders and Grand Slams, with good success.


----------



## Swamp Monster

michigander II said:


> Hard to tell, but I can't really see any rifling grooves in that bullet.:yikes: I used to use them too and since gave up on them. I use the Barnes Expanders and Grand Slams, with good success.



You won't see rifling grooves. The bullet does not contact the rifling, the small plastic disc that attaches to the bottom of the bullet is all that engages the rifling upon expnasion during firing. Thats why these things literaly fall down your barrel.


----------



## ENCORE

Swamp Monster said:


> You won't see rifling grooves. The bullet does not contact the rifling, the small plastic disc that attaches to the bottom of the bullet is all that engages the rifling upon expnasion during firing. Thats why these things literaly fall down your barrel.


Thanks Swamp!


----------



## MI-Dan

I've used PBs for 3 years with no problems. 










http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/album.php?albumid=747&pictureid=4257

This one went through both shoulders and stopped in the hide. 295 grain 3 pyrodex pellets with a Knight 50 cal Wolverine. He went about 100 yards 

I've bought a 50 cal Remington Genesis, last year, and hit a 7-point at 128 yards exactly where I aimed. He only went 30 yards.

I do agree with the lousy blood trail though.


----------



## michigander88

Using 348 gr aeto tips and still haven't had the problems that are being reported. Have cut much meat with them and havn't had a reason to switch yet

MI88


----------



## Roosevelt

I'm getting the impression that there is alot of negative marketing hype surrounding CVA and Powerbelts.

There's a whole lot of people using them with success. I think the trick is as with any other bullet to match the bullet to the load.

That bullet pictured has no rifling grooves which means either the bullet was too light or there wasn't enough powder to allow it too expand and contact the rifling.


----------



## duxdog

Roosevelt said:


> I'm getting the impression that there is alot of negative marketing hype surrounding CVA and Powerbelts.
> 
> There's a whole lot of people using them with success. I think the trick is as with any other bullet to match the bullet to the load.
> 
> That bullet pictured has no rifling grooves which means either the bullet was too light or there wasn't enough powder to allow it too expand and contact the rifling.


That is what I was wondering. I shoot 150 grains (3 pellets) in my T/C Pro Hunter and have shot a bunch of deer. I haven't had any issues. Heck I shot a doe @175 yards last year and she went 5 yards. This year I shot a doe at 140 yards and I had to throw both front shoulder away. Hmmmm, I sure don't want to use a bad load. The bullets are the cheap part.


----------



## motoman3b

I've never used the powerbelts, but from my experience with shockwaves out of both my .45 cal shooting 200 grains and my wifes 50 cal shooting 250 grains is they group good but perform poorly on deer. Shot 3 deer with them out of my gun and my wife shot a buck at 15 yards, my deer we're all less then 75 yards and never once got pass through. Every single bullet fragmented in the carcass and caused the stomach to rip open from the fragments. If I didnt see most of them go down or watch the way they acted after the shot I wouldnt of think I hit them. So to say the least I'm not impressed with how they worked for me and switched to a barnes expander last year, shot 2 does in one sitting one at about 120 yards and the other at 155, pass through and awesome blood trail. Shot another doe this last friday at 80 yards with pass through and decent blood trail. So I found what works for me, and just trying to give ya some advice that what shoots well on paper might not always perform that well on a living target.


----------



## old graybeard

I have used the hollow point powerbelts for several years now with great success. No I have never had a complete pass through either but the bullets I have retrieved under the skin on the off side have been perfect mushrooms. They group very well for me and have dropped deer in their tracks. If I think of it I'll snap a couple pics of the retrieved bullets. To me if a bullet uses all it's energy inside the body cavity and drops the deer what more can be asked of it?


----------



## ENCORE

Roosevelt said:


> I'm getting the impression that there is alot of negative marketing hype surrounding CVA and Powerbelts.
> 
> There's a whole lot of people using them with success. I think the trick is as with any other bullet to match the bullet to the load.
> 
> That bullet pictured has no rifling grooves which means either the bullet was too light or there wasn't enough powder to allow it too expand and contact the rifling.


You need to read Swamp's post again..... He's 100% correct.
That bullet was fired out of my Knight, with *EXACTLY* *100 grs. of 2-F*.
Range was approximately 50 to 55 yards.
That bullet should have passed thru but, it shouldn't have looked like that after passing through that deer and then hitting into the ground.
The bullet weight, weighed this morning after reading your post, is 298gr., as you see it in the picture. There goes the theory of being too light and *EXACTLY 100 grs. of 2-F* is certainly enough powder. There goes the theory about not enough powder.
Now, if the bullet itself has to expand and contact the rifling as you seem to be suggesting, I don't think that ANY manufacturer could ever get tolerances so tight, as to verify that it will happen every time, in every rifle.
There have been way too many people that have had similar problems and you see a lot of the reasoning posted here and in so many other posts. EVERY personal friend that has tried them, have all switched to something different. Most of who have been shooting the muzz since back in the late 70's.
That being said, I can't shoot such an undependable bullet! Especially when there are so many others that do perform to choose from.


----------



## swampbuck

From my expeirience, powerbelts are junk!


----------



## Swamp Monster

It's very apparent by this thread (and others in the past) that people just do not understand how these Powerbelts work. Like I've said in previous posts, CVA has capitilized on a lack of knowledge of bullet contruction. The fact that people think they are jacketed or that the bullet itself should expand to engage the rifling is proof positive. 

Powerbelts are not traditional sabots in the sense that the bullet is encased in a plastic sleave but they are however still underbore by a few thousands and do not nor will they ever contact the rifling. They use a plastic disc that attaches to the bottom of the bullet, and like a sabot, expands as soon as the powder charge is ignited. As the little plastic disc expands, it engages the rifling and imparts spin on the bullet. Once the whole thing leaves the muzzle, the little plastic disc falls away (sometimes) like a regular sabot. 


Negative marketing hype or not, based on what I've seen on numerous occasions, I choose not to use them. And I continue to tell others not to use them as well, and will continue to do so. Too many much better choices out there.


----------



## scottywolverine

I have used powerbelts for years with no problems. They pattern well and I have never lost a deer. I have also killed an elk with a 400 gr. power belt. But after reading all these post I may try something different.


----------



## michigander II

Swamp Monster said:


> The fact that people think they are jacketed or that the bullet itself should expand to engage the rifling is proof positive.
> 
> Powerbelts are not traditional sabots in the sense that the bullet is encased in a plastic sleave but they are however still underbore by a few thousands and do not nor will they ever contact the rifling. They use a plastic disc that attaches to the bottom of the bullet, and like a sabot, expands as soon as the powder charge is ignited. As the little plastic disc expands, it engages the rifling and imparts spin on the bullet. Once the whole thing leaves the muzzle, the little plastic disc falls away (sometimes) like a regular sabot.


 The thin copper plating greatly reduces bore friction for higher velocities  while still allowing for optimal bullet expansion within the rifling grooves.
This sentence was taken from the PowerBelt website. I have shot these bullets and retrieved them and have seen rifling grooves in them. So, I am sure it is a quality control problem. :yikes:


----------



## adam bomb

ENCORE said:


> THAT'S the way its supposed to be done. Congrats on getting er' done!
> Good for you that the wife tracks  Don't get any better than that.


Wonder if she guts em too? :lol:


----------



## QuakrTrakr

adam bomb said:


> Wonder if she guts em too? :lol:


Mine won't even touch the giblets on the inside of a Butterball! :lol:


----------



## adam bomb

:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Paperboy 1

I do the gutting, but she has NO PROBLEM standing there and holding the front legs when field dressing them! Get this.....Her sister is a tree hugger! :lol: The wife loves a thick stroganoff or just a good ole bacon venison cheeseburger. :corkysm55 Tasty.

One time we had found the deer I shot and I went to go get the truck to get it out of back field of a farm. It was COLD out and when I got back there was my loving wife keeping warm by sitting on the ground and she had wrapped the deer around her to stay warm! Yep, she got a little blood on her.  I love that woman.


----------



## QuakrTrakr

Paperboy 1 said:


> I do the gutting, but she has NO PROBLEM standing there and holding the front legs when field dressing them! Get this.....Her sister is a tree hugger! :lol: The wife loves a thick stroganoff or just a good ole bacon venison cheeseburger. :corkysm55 Tasty.
> 
> One time we had found the deer I shot and I went to go get the truck to get it out of back field of a farm. It was COLD out and when I got back there was my loving wife keeping warm by sitting on the ground and she had wrapped the deer around her to stay warm! Yep, she got a little blood on her.  I love that woman.


Boy! Hang on to her! I just got back from getting another big ole doe, but had no help getting her into the back of my truck. I wound up getting blood on me from my chest to my toes. My 7 year old got right in there to help me move the deer , but my wife Is STILL freaking about the blood on my boots!


----------



## ENCORE

Buddy took a nice doe that didn't have fawns following tonight. The deer was just slightly quartering at him and actually had him spotted. Guess it broke the 3 second rule 
Anyway, he shot it lengthwise and this bullet was just under the hide. Deer hair all over the place at the spot that the deer stood and it bled like a suck hog after the second jump. Piled up in 40 yds.
This is what a *Hornady XTP* looks like that you might be fortunate enough to recover.....


----------



## QuakrTrakr

Encore- I've never hit a deer with an XTP that didn't bleed like a stuck pig. Hollow points in general are great game takers! Glad to hear it came out good!


----------



## Swamp Monster

ENCORE said:


> Buddy took a nice doe that didn't have fawns following tonight. The deer was just slightly quartering at him and actually had him spotted. Guess it broke the 3 second rule
> Anyway, he shot it lengthwise and this bullet was just under the hide. Deer hair all over the place at the spot that the deer stood and it bled like a suck hog after the second jump. Piled up in 40 yds.
> This is what a *Hornady XTP* looks like that you might be fortunate enough to recover.....


A1 performance right there! Look at that...absolutely no cup/core seperation, rapid expansion to maximum caliber, solid base holding together like the day it was born! Penetration to the nines. Those folks at Hornady now a thing or two about building bullets! XTP's are always a solid choice!


----------



## willy05

T/C PTX 250grain, been using them since 1991, have not had a deer take more than two steps with shots from as close as15 feet to 186 yds. Shock waves are very similar just more of a point.


----------



## goblue2325

I've been shooting powerbelts out of my cva wolf for about 5 year's now with some not so good result's. when i shoot them in the summer and early fall for practice they are awesome bullets. easy to load and very accurate. I have shot at 8 deer with these bullets and 6 of them are still walking around unharmed. when i shoot the gun in cold weather with these bullets this is what happens. I get the deer in my scope squeeze the trigger and hear a loud CRACK instead of a BOOM. I think the bullet is too lose in the barrel to create any pressure. so I basically have a very expensive cap gun. both deer that i shot with these bullets died within 30 seconds but there was no exit wound and they fragmented into about 50 pieces. Got a new cva accura this week and im thinking about switching to a sabot round. Any suggestion's? Anyone shoot the harvester gold's?


----------



## MERGANZER

SST's and XTP's. Used Powerbelts first 2 years. All I can say is that they are great if you drill a hole in them and use them as fishing sinkers. Other than that in the trash they go. My son wants to try them cause he got a new CVA for Christmas and of course they pimp the PB's like crazy. I told him he will not go afield with me if he chooses the PB's. Research online you will find twice as much negative on them as you will positive. Just my opinion good luck to you.

Ganzer


----------



## Sasquatch Lives

I have always shot XTP's and have never lost a deer. Great performing bullets. Have never tried powerbelts and never will.


----------

