# A Great Day



## Happy Hunter (Apr 14, 2004)

"Why not tell your friend to shoot that big doe that small buck is following that is what hunting is all about there is no shame in taking a doe teach our kids this and we will reverse this 50 year trend."


Hunters in PA did that for the past 3 years and as a result ou buck harvest dropped by 39%, to the lowest levels in over 20 years.


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## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

Happy Hunter said:


> "Why not tell your friend to shoot that big doe that small buck is following that is what hunting is all about there is no shame in taking a doe teach our kids this and we will reverse this 50 year trend."
> 
> 
> Hunters in PA did that for the past 3 years and as a result ou buck harvest dropped by 39%, to the lowest levels in over 20 years.


Why would anyone be suprised by this? - It only make sense that if hunters in any state stopped shooting bucks and started shooting does, that the buck harvest would decline -  


ferg....


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## Happy Hunter (Apr 14, 2004)

Ferg said:


> Why would anyone be suprised by this? - It only make sense that if hunters in any state stopped shooting bucks and started shooting does, that the buck harvest would decline -
> 
> 
> ferg....


 The hunters in PA did not stop shooting buck. AR's simply stopped them from shooting 50% of the 1.5 buck population. The 1.5 bucks saved the first year of AR's should replace the buck 1.5 buck saved in the second year of AR and the buck harvet should return to normal. Even Dr. Alt made that claim after the first year of AR's.

The fact is ,that PA increased the harvest rate for 2.5+ buck ,but the buck harvest stilll decreased since there were more males being harvested as anterless deer and fewer BB were being recruited due to the increased harvest of adult doe.

BTW, the same thing happened in Arkansas,where the harvest decreased bu 40% in 5 years.


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

Why yes it is a great day isn't it?  Fresh snow a little sunshine and it is Friday and payday to boot so I will stay outta this one as it is a great day  

AW


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## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

Happy Hunter said:


> The hunters in PA did not stop shooting buck. AR's simply stopped them from shooting 50% of the 1.5 buck population.


Thus a decline in buck harvest.



happy hunter said:


> The 1.5 bucks saved the first year of AR's should replace the buck 1.5 buck saved in the second year of AR and the buck harvet should return to normal.


I don't believe this, I think its harder to harvest a 2.5 year buck than a 1.5.



happy hunter said:


> Even Dr. Alt made that claim after the first year of AR's.


Can't speak to this - have no info.




happy hunter said:


> The fact is ,that PA increased the harvest rate for 2.5+ buck ,but the buck harvest stilll decreased since there were more males being harvested as anterless deer and fewer BB were being recruited due to the increased harvest of adult doe.
> 
> BTW, the same thing happened in Arkansas,where the harvest decreased bu 40% in 5 years.


Sounds like a great reason to tag all male deer as 'bucks'  


ferg....

Ya know what Adam your right - and this has moved off track and I'm as guilty as anyone - I'll give HH a shot at the post I just made - and then closer down for the weekend


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## jk hillsdale (Dec 7, 2002)

deathfromabove said:


> Thats our problem, some hunters think your a man to shoot a buck thats horse manure.
> 
> Why not tell your friend to shoot that big doe that small buck is following that is what hunting is all about there is no shame in taking a doe teach our kids this and we will reverse this 50 year trend.


Change is a process. I would never be so presumptuous as to "tell my friend what to shoot" on his property, anymore so that I would "tell him" what to do on any other topic. My attitude is that when a friend asks or is open to discussing new ideas or tactics, that's when change will take place. Until there is an openness, I'll support them in doing whatever they desire. I've converted three close friends and family members in the past three years over the philosophies of QDM - in each case it was through them seeing my results and hearing me speak about passing up young bucks, it was not a topic that I initiated with them. Also, in the case of an inexperienced hunter who hasn't yet met with much success, I simply don't buy in to the concept of pushing them to pass up smaller bucks. The genuine excitement they possess when taking any buck is the exact same way I felt for many years, and I'm not going to deny them opportunities for success as they're gaining experience. 

In the meantime, as I stated previously, I'm not going to let my enjoyment of the sport be diminished because not everyone sees things the way I do. I absolutely love to hunt, and I'm pleased with how things are progressing in MI - in essence I'm in alignment with the original theme of this thread. As change takes place, I'm not going to get worked up because many others still haven't adopted my standards. When a neighbor or a friend shoots a buck that I wouldn't have, I have no problem congratulating them on their success - I've never yet been upset, ticked off, frustrated, disappointed, etc because someone else shot a buck that didn't meet my standards. I've always felt sorry for anyone that would get jealous of another hunter who takes a large buck, and in recent years I've also felt sorry for the individuals I personally know who get so worked up and worried about what their neighbors shoot that it appears they no longer are able to enjoy hunting.


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## BlockBUD (Dec 8, 2004)

Deathfromabove~ I would shoot a doe if I could. You can't shoot does where I hunt. Like I've said before, if I hunted an area that had more deer, I might consider letting young bucks walk. On a good season I see 8-10 deer, maybe one buck. In over twenty years of hunting I've only seen 10 bucks, the biggest a 6 or 8 point that I missed! Opportunity dictates my hunting philosophy and I just don't have the opportunity to practice ARs. In fact, I just don't want to anyway.


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

BlockBud.....you aren't hunting over bait are you? For example, I hunt in an area where some bait hunters will see only 5 deer or less in a full week of hunting, but yet on the same national forest, without bait, on public land, I've seen at least 30 bucks to shoot in the last 7 years of hunting. I just can't think of an area in the entire U.P. of MI that I could hunt and only see 10 bucks in 20 years...unless I only used bait, or unless I sat in the same spot for 20 years.

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but if you know of anybody that consistantly and legally gets bucks in your area...you can too. At the same time though, that is exactly why many leave the U.P. to go to surrounding states for better hunting. We need to improve the habitat and quality of our deer herd so we can stay home and pursue our dreams.


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## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

With my apologies to happy hunter  This is going way astray  

ferg....


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