# Hunting dog cannot be a family dog?



## LostnHungry (Jan 29, 2008)

Since I've been looking into getting a dog, a few people I've talked to seem to be under the impression that hunting dogs need to be left outside, not ever let into the house, and not be part of the family--just used as tools for one purpose...to hunt. I've always thought that good hunting dogs could sort of switch into "house mode" once inside; and I have seen some that had free reign of _their_ house and were fine duck dogs. Dogs being social driven pack animals, I would think that it needs to be around the family (pack) for belonging, and would need to interact with humans often in order to develop a sound temperament needed for the field and for mental stimulation/brain development. 

Do dogs need to be trained this way in order to be good hunting dogs? As in: never being let inside EVER, and keeping them away from kids and family? And not knowing many people with hunting dogs, is this the way hunter's view and treat their dogs, or is this just a misconception that non-hunters have about hunting dogs? I guess I just never pictured my hunting dog being left in a kennel outside all day, receiving exercise, hunt training, and obedience training, then being locked back in the kennel while I head back to the house.

Thanks


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## augustus0603 (Oct 24, 2005)

I don't think that's true. My hunting dog is great in the house. I'm sure the majority of people who post on this forum will tell you the same thing. 

I'm single, so I don't have to worry about him around kids but I'm sure he'd be fine. I'm sure the posters that have kids will tell you their dogs are great around them.


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## Jumpshootin' (Jul 6, 2000)

That's a bunch of baloney. Being house or kennel raised has no impact either way on the hunting ablilities of a dog. A house dog is around you more and therefore becomes a better companion in the field. They tend to mind/handle better due to constant interaction with you.
I have dogs both in the house and kennel. Why? I won't let a male hound in the house. Besides, I don't expect the same level of obedience from one as I do a retriever. And he has the run of out 1/2 acre fenced yard during the day. I want him to run rabbits and come when called. That's it. Also, they tend to roll in and eat some of the most disgusting and smelly stuff. Rather than giving a bath after every time afield, it's easier to kennel. 
The more your dog is with you, the better companion it will be. Don't listen to those old wives-tales.


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

i dont think there is any psychological reason that a house dog cant be a hunting dog. the problem is physical, a house dog doesnt get enough exercise to stay in shape for the demands of hunting. if you are a former marine, you know the value of staying in shape.

my dogs are outside in an acre run all day where they are active and are run in the pasture twice a day. how is a dog going to achieve the muscle tone and aerobic exercise needed to do the job?

mike


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

i doubt that it matters where your dog sleeps at night, in a kennel or in the house. but the problem with house dogs is lack of exercise. to have the musle tone and aerobic exercise they need to work out a lot every day.

i turn mine out into an acre pasture all day every day and run them twice a day. a dog cant get into shape living in a house or small kennel all day every day.


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## LostnHungry (Jan 29, 2008)

dogwhistle said:


> i doubt that it matters where your dog sleeps at night, in a kennel or in the house. but the problem with house dogs is lack of exercise. to have the musle tone and aerobic exercise they need to work out a lot every day.
> 
> i turn mine out into an acre pasture all day every day and run them twice a day. a dog cant get into shape living in a house or small kennel all day every day.


But you still let them in sometimes right? Like if people are home, kids, family etc...? They acted like hunting dogs are _never_ allowed inside, like that it would make them soft if they interacted with children or felt the warmth of the house.


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## justbehindit (Nov 30, 2005)

Do not believe that keeping your hunting dog as a house pet will lessen it's abilities. On the contrary, I feel that a dog kept in the house is better suited to working with you as a team simply due to the daily interaction that your dog has with you as it's pack leader. Genetics make for soft dogs; not living conditions. If the dog has the drive then it will do the work. If not, then it won't.

I will say though, that you have to acclimate your dog to the weather prior to the season in addition to ensuring that the dog is in good condition. Greater amounts of time outside should be helpful in getting the dog acclimated to the cold. It is the trainer's responsibility to condition his dog regardless of living conditions. Living outside does not make a dog fit.


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## Bobby (Dec 21, 2002)

LostnHungry said:


> , .......... or is this just a misconception that non-hunters have about hunting dogs?
> Thanks



An utter and complete misconception.


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## PETEE (Dec 24, 2007)

dogwhistle is correct, my two are ran two times a day plus all the excercise they get when the boy's get home from school. They do have the run of the house day and nite the only time they are locked up is when the family is eating,other than that they are usually with us inside and out. They have never let me down in the field.


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## Shep (Jan 22, 2008)

I leave my dogs in the house. They are best companions I have ever had, and they always find my birds. I do exercise them in an open pasture everyday for about 90 minutes.


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## Mickey Finn (Jan 21, 2005)

I agree with dog whistle and Justbehindit. The exception could be hounds both running and scent.

For a gun dog, living with the family seems to have alot of benefits. My dogs spend about 1/3 of their time in outdoor kennel runs.The rest of the time they are with me. They sleep indoors if I'm home. The dd is a little active while indoors which may bother some people.

When we go on hunting trips of a week or longer. They both stay in crates in the truck. Whether I'm camping in a tent or in a hotel. Does this let them know that we are in a different behavior mode? Perhaps.

Mickey Finn


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## fowl-play (Jan 2, 2008)

dogwhistle said:


> ...a house dog doesnt get enough exercise to stay in shape for the demands of hunting...


I agree that many house dogs are under-exercised. That said, many don't have acre runs for their dogs. I feel my dogs are in better shape simply by being active in the house, ie. fetching a tennis ball, chasing and wrestling with the other dog, etc... than they would be if they were locked up in a normal sized run all the time.

But back to the original question - the only negative I see is that mine do get a little softer where the cold is concerned. But as mentioned before, that can be remedied with acclimation.


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## Bonz 54 (Apr 17, 2005)

Quite literally Hunting Dogs have laid next the fire with man and his family since they were first domesticated. We gave them food, warmth, and protection. They gave us an early warning system for defense, assisted in running down game, and protected the family when the elders were away. In later years, many of our Sporting breeds were first a family pet that showed some innate ability at some sort of hunting. Pointing, Flushing, Coursing, Retrieving were all started by some kind of mixed breed and then that trait was refined by selective breeding with dogs of the same talents. While all this was going on, the Dog slept by its Master bed or Harth and lived as a member of the family. Which is how things should be today. A dog that is dedicated to its owner is going to be easier to train, more bidable, and a pleasure to be around. If you read any stories about many of the Great Champions you'll also hear about what a Great companion the dog was. FRANK


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## ccavacini (Mar 9, 2005)

I've managed to raise two Brittanys who are house dogs to hunt successfully. The only time they sleep outside is when we're on a hunting trip. Then, they're in their kennels all night in the SUV.

I run them as much as I can..start serious condititioning in early October to get ready for pheasant season.

A dog in the house no way diminishes its will or ability to hunt.


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## Shotgun Kennel (Feb 9, 2007)

I think the old timers did it because they were not able to control fleas, etc coming into the house. Keep them in if you can but give them plenty of exercise. I am really of the opinion the closer they bond as a family pet and well mannered house dog, the better they will behave in the field. No scientific data to back that up but if you can't make them behave under foot how will they behave 75-100 yds out.


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## everlast1 (Nov 9, 2006)

Dogs kept outside are healthier and stronger. As far as interaction mine are run 1 hr in the morning and 1hr in the afternoon and get 3 times the undivided attention as a dog thats in the house all day.


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## Socks (Jan 8, 2007)

My lab so far finds birds just fine for me. Granted, he's a pet first and a hunting dog second. The other 10 to 11 months of the year he's a pet and in the house with me and the wife all year and he's a good companion. Doesn't get on the furniture, doesn't jump up on people, gets walks and retriever training. He's got it made in the shade.:lol:

Just make sure you exercise you dog and and I think you'll have a better dog if he's inside with you. More socialized and biddable becuase he is taught to behave inside with you and that same behavior is expected outside.


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## midwestfisherman (Apr 19, 2001)

everlast1 said:


> Dogs kept outside are healthier and stronger.


That is absolutely false. 

Inside dogs can and do perform just as well as dogs kept outside. All of my dogs are currently inside. I can depend on them to run and perform at their best anytime I put them on the ground. They're not soft, nor are they weak in anyway.

This whole outside thing producing better dogs is old fashioned thinking and nothing more than a myth!


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## everlast1 (Nov 9, 2006)

Been doing this a long time and I've kept dogs in and out. You dont know what the you are talking about. There have been many studies done in the past. The results are always the same, dogs that live outside are generally healthier and live longer. At the end of the day how would anyone that keeps their dogs inside be able to make an educated judgement one way or another.


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## Paco (Dec 18, 2006)

Last generation that held the belief that the dogs must be outside or it will ruin their nose or WHATEVER_______________ (fill in the blank).Was my Dads--WWII,and even he's changed that opinion.Bird dogs and possibly especially the retrievers,have to work as part of a hunting team,you the human,being the part they are working for.If you could observe most dogs while you are away at work and they are in the yard or kennel,my bet is that they are laying around waiting for the pack leader to get home so they can get some work in. My observation is that most dogs don't self exercise enough to stay in shape,it's the owners responsibility to get them in hunting trim.That said, I have my dog in with me most of the time,I'm semi-retired so thats allot.He hunts most days of both the waterfowl and upland seasons in all conditions.As a matter of fact on a morning walk along the river the other day,he decided to take a swim.(5 below and blizzard conditions)Ice was flowing and the river was feezing over,which is rare here.Looked like a small polar bear once he got out and hit the air,just shook it off,but did have a good dose of I feel like running fast. You are getting good info here,they need rules and need to bond with you,and the pack,your family.Give them plenty of house time,IMO.Also balance that with outdoor time to be able to handle the weather.This is for bird dogs,hounds are another story I'm sure.,,,and we also have much better control of fleas and ticks then in the past. Paco


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## Mitch (Jan 10, 2003)

The "fact" that a dog kept indoors cannot be a good hunting dog is a myth. There are some benefits to both that I've found in my own experiences in keeping dogs, both hunting and not, most are dominence issues.

Kenneled dogs seem to accept thier roll easier as a subordinate, which makes training and overall handling easier. Dogs living in the house have more opportunities, 24/7, to test and try to assert thier own dominence. For someone that doesn't know how to handle each instance this can lead to bad things with a dog that runs the show.

As far as indoor dogs being lazy and fat, that's a problem with the owner, not the dog.

Just my thoughts drawn from my own experience.

Mitch


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## Dead Bird (Oct 2, 2001)

everlast1 said:


> Been doing this a long time. You dont know what the you are talking about. There have been many studies done in the past. The results are always the same, dogs that live outside are generally healthier and live longer.


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## n.pike (Aug 23, 2002)

I kept my female beagle inside for all her 10 1/2 years, great pet and would put her against any dog for rabbit, pheasant or grouse. I now have lab that is a house dog. I want her to be able to hunt for the kids, with the kids, not just as a tool. The dog works great for them, retrieves well at their commands and yet she is their pet.


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## to far gone (Nov 27, 2007)

I wonder what Craig Burns would have to say about this topic. I am sure he would be agree with everlast1. :lol::lol::lol:


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## Mickey Finn (Jan 21, 2005)

everlast1 said:


> Been doing this a long time and I've kept dogs in and out. You dont know what the you are talking about. There have been many studies done in the past. The results are always the same, dogs that live outside are generally healthier and live longer.


Not to gang up on you. But, if you could post a few of these studies. Maybe we could all learn something.


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## LostnHungry (Jan 29, 2008)

to far gone said:


> I wonder what Craig Burns would have to say about this topic. I am sure he would be agree with everlast1. :lol::lol::lol:


Seriously...Thats why I asked this question, I saw what he wrote, then a couple other dog owners told me the same thing about "hunting dogs" and acted like I needed to treat them like they were a wild animal or something. "I won't allow them near my kids" type stuff. So I started wondering if it was true and that maybe thats what all you guys did. So I started worrying that if I got a dog for hunting that I wouldn't be able to treat it like a pet. Obviously, as I had originally thought, most people treat their hd's like members of the family.

And since the two guys seemed to not be active hunters, I started wondering if maybe the non-hunting public thinks of hunting dogs as different from regular dogs. Anyway I just saw this on the ussa website. *** is wrong with these people? I mean...?

http://www.ussportsmen.org/Read5.cfm?ID=2082&legdocs=KV


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## everlast1 (Nov 9, 2006)

Whats the old saying, BIRDS OF A FEATHER :lol::lol::lol:


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## Unregistered4 (Dec 11, 2004)

Dogs should absolutely never be allowed in the house...

Why?..you ask...










They'll steal your chair when you get up to get a cup of coffee...

But, seriously. 

Personally, I like my dogs outside in their kennel (they use to be in the house). I think it's healthier for them and more entertaining. They get fresh air all day long while I'm at work and they can watch what's happening in the hood.










As far as it affecting whether they hunt or not...I haven't seen any evidence of it making a difference...one way or another. They weren't worth a crud when they were in the house and the they ain't worth a crud now that they're in the kennel...darn worthless mutts...lol 

Brian (aka twosetters)


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## Dead Bird (Oct 2, 2001)

there are two types of dogs.... those that hunt with you.... those that hunt for you.... you need to pick the type of hunting partner you want... 

there are 24 hrs in a day... you pick how you wish to spend that time... I have a pup that is going on four yrs without a hunting pedigree... he needs another 96 retrieves to go to get to his 1000.... he is probably slacking because he sleeps with my 2yr old daughter...:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

hoping to finish the 1000 off with a trip in the next week or two to Missouri...


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## Dead Bird (Oct 2, 2001)

Mickey Finn said:


> Not to gang up on you. But, if you could post a few of these studies. Maybe we could all learn something.


 :idea::help::idea:


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## everlast1 (Nov 9, 2006)

Unregistered4 said:


> Dogs should absolutely never be allowed in the house...
> 
> Why?..you ask...
> 
> ...


You are a wise man


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## Dead Bird (Oct 2, 2001)

OK... gotta go... I think my pup just turned on the electric blanket...


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## LostnHungry (Jan 29, 2008)

Unregistered4 said:


> Personally, I like my dogs outside in their kennel (they use to be in the house). I think it's healthier for them and more entertaining. They get fresh air all day long while I'm at work and they can watch what's happening in the hood.


Me too. I mean if you're saying that your dogs stay outside while youre away, thats what I would do. And of course I don't want them in the house all the time, there's only so much dog I can take before I need to send them out for "personal reflection time". I also don't think I will let them sleep in the house at night either unless it's real cold. When I say "treat it like a pet" I just mean being able to treat it like any other dog. And I don't mean house dog like fat bulldog or papillon kind of a house dog if that's what people thought i meant. I was just trying to make the distinction between a dog that is _never_ allowed inside and a dog that _is_ allowed inside.


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## Paco (Dec 18, 2006)

After reading these posts again I am struck with how I came across.I am no big shakes when it come to dog knowledge.I try hard to strike a balance with the way I approach my dogs lives.I've said before and I'll repeat it here,"There is more than one way to skin a cat".So much of what we do with our dogs is personal choice. My opinions are mine,and work well for me,and so far,my dogs. I would be interested in one or two of the many studies that have been done that found,dogs that live outside are generally healthier and live longer.I want the best for my dogs,and am willing to change for their benefit.As I am an avid reader and seek more dog wisdom.I must say I've never read anything on this topic more than opinions.I'll try a search,but if someone could point me to one of these studies I'd Appreciate it,thanks---------------Paco


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## to far gone (Nov 27, 2007)

My dog goes outside in a kennel when i go to work. I let her in when i get home. since moving out from parents 20 some years ago i have had 3 bird dogs and 2 wifes. with that experience behind me, I would much rather live with the dog.


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## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

I had my dog(s) outside for 8 years and then due to some injuries to one of them they came in two Summers ago and stayed. I didn't notice anything different in there hunting however now I have to be more in tune with the weather and keeping them in the dog box overnight but so far no worries, just buy a good box.


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## LostnHungry (Jan 29, 2008)

2ESRGR8 said:


> I had my dog(s) outside


When you say outside, do you mean you never let them in the house? I'm confusing myself now--when you guys say we keep (kept) our dogs outside, is that to say that they were _never _allowed inside?.. Ever? Just outside? And when you refer to a housedog is that to say a dog that is kept outside most of the time but is let into the house sometimes? Because that is how I think of it, I'm trying to see if we're on the same page.

And back to the *Original/first* post. 

Do they interact with your children/family? I am trying to figure out if what I was told was correct...*that hunting dogs CANNOT come into the house EVER, also DO NOT interact with the family/children. They are there to hunt, only. They sleep in the kennel at night, stay there during the day, and are taken out 2 times daily for training and exercise.* Some of you say outside dogs, is the aforementioned description what you mean by outside dog????????????????


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## hehibrits (Mar 10, 2007)

Used to have a kennel full of outside dogs, now have all house dogs. No difference in the way that they hunt for me. Have one now that is a few weeks shy of 17, and one that made 19 a few years back, so age isn't an issue. Don't seem to have the barking issues I used to with a kennel.


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## slammer (Feb 21, 2006)

My experience has been that house dogs seem to lose a bit of independence that some may want with big running dogs. Does not matter as far as hunting ability but the dogs I have seen from high powered trial lines that are also house dogs seems to NEED to stay more in touch with their gunner than a dog without the constant human interaction. May be just my perception though.


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

LostnHungry said:


> Since I've been looking into getting a dog, a few people I've talked to seem to be under the impression that hunting dogs need to be left outside, not ever let into the house, and not be part of the family--just used as tools for one purpose...to hunt.
> Do dogs need to be trained this way in order to be good hunting dogs? As in: never being let inside EVER, and keeping them away from kids and family? Thanks


L&H.

One word: *BALDERDASH!!*

Who have you been talking to, that Muddy Creek guy?? That guy's stuck in the "dark ages", literally.

Our hounds get house time every day plus training or woods runs or roading or hunting or retieving drills _every day._ Most savvy dog guys will tell you that living in the house will make no difference, whatsoever, in their hunting ability or drive. In fact, for gundogs, those that work strictly in concert to the gun ie. spaniels and retrievers, its a big plus IMHO.

The only thing I've seen that may need attention is when the kids or wifey give orders that are not enforced and the dogs start slacking off. 

NB


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## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

dogwhistle said:


> i think you guys would find that funseekers rebel and all of his kind are exercised a great deal every day including roading in front of a four wheeler or horse.
> 
> there is a world of difference between dogs that trial at the higher levels and the average dog that is kept in a kennel or house and only let out for exercise infrequently if at all.
> 
> a friend of mine had a ru natl grouse champion. he lives in a subdivision and kenneled his dogs in the back yard. but he was dedicated far beyond even the average trialer and those dogs were worked often and in condition. but few of us have that kind of dedication.


I agree: if you want a really high performance dog, regardless of where you live and whether the dog stays in or out, you had better be prepared to go above and beyond in the exercise dept.


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## LostnHungry (Jan 29, 2008)

FindTheBird said:


> I agree: if you want a really high performance dog, regardless of where you live and whether the dog stays in or out, you had better be prepared to go above and beyond in the exercise dept.


Or you can create a large fenced in area out in the woods and leave the dogs out there for a couple months. When you return after that period of time, nature will have trained them to hunt and obey you; the space will have allowed them to exercise on their own; and the snow and fresh air will have made them tough and healthy. Outside can cure anything.


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## Troutlord1 (Jun 6, 2007)

When i was a kid my father took me to put and take pheasant hunting (yes that long ago :lol his friend had gwp's he kept outside and yes they hunted good and that was his interaction with his dogs. 20 yrs later i was lucky enough to get a gsp that was a house dog and he hunted well (lost him this past january will miss him). my point is, isnt that the best feeling you can have is you and your buddy out in the field or water then coming home and the friend nuzzles you or curls up by you!!!?? To me an outdoor dog is just a tool for hunting where as a house dog is a best friend and field companion.I know I will remember my Gsp as a friend and a hunting buddy. Just my 2 cents.i dont have a problem with sportsmen with outdoor dogs I just want my next pup(if it happens) to have the same special BOND my GSP and I had. sorry if i offended anyone just a bit sentimental and sad once again(I still miss him).
Tom/Trout


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## BIG BUCK DOWN (Dec 6, 2007)

browndog49735 said:


> What a bunch of BS,i have a outside kennels and the dogs get next to no exercize in it.The 3 labs i own get far more exercize being family/ house dogs that they ever get in the kennel.and all 3 are in good shape and ready and willing to bust ice or chase grouse,pheasant in any ind of crappy weather.
> what "pro breeder"recomended keeping him outside away from your family.that poor dog is missing all kinds of socialization.


I bought the dog down in Iowa and he recommended to keep him outside. In addition, I dont have him in a little kennel, it is about a 2 acre fenced in area and he does run and play, often with my kids and I. Furthermore, I take him with me twice a week to any open water i can find, harder in winter. He does have social interaction with us but I refuse to domesticate the dog at all by having him in the house for any length of time. He is a hunting dog and this breed has a special demeanor, he is made to hunt and hunt and hunt. Not to be an inside family dog, get a poodle for that. To state that my original post was BS is absurd because you clearly have not had a Chessie, they are different than labs, alot different because I have had both. At any rate, we all have our opinions on these issues, I guess do what works for you and your dog. And he is not my POOR DOG. I feel bad for dogs that are intended to be hunters and the owner puts him/her inside for most of their lives, there insticts are to be in the outdoors not in a 72 degree house. Just my opinion.


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## BIG BUCK DOWN (Dec 6, 2007)

Fowlmood said:


> Your so called "Pro Breeder" is full of Schidt up to his eyeballs. I can't believe you even fell for that crap !:lol::lol:
> I've had Labs and CBR's all my life, they've ALL lived in the house and hunted ALL winter long with me,,, and happy to do so.
> The amount of exercise a dog gets is up to their owner. Dogs don't "work out" on their own:idea:
> 
> Let's see your Kennel dog do this :


 
Well that is an impressive photo, congrats you have a good one. Yeah my dog can do that too. However, regarding that dogs dont exercise by themselves I have to disagree. My dog is constantly running in his 2 acre fenced in area after rabbits, birds, etc. I assure my dog gets far more physical activity than your inside Chessie, no question about it.


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## fowl-play (Jan 2, 2008)

BIG BUCK DOWN said:


> he is made to hunt and hunt and hunt. Not to be an inside family dog, get a poodle for that.


If someone doesn't want an inside dog, but wants a hunting dog, then by all means, keep a hunting dog outside. But the belief that a dog is in any way hindered by being an inside dog is absolutely wrong. A dog is possibly better, but in no way worse for being an inside dog.

Why would I waste the money on keeping a hunting dog outside, and a poodle inside, when I can have one dog that can serve both roles?


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## BradU20 (Jan 17, 2005)

BIG BUCK DOWN said:


> I refuse to domesticate the dog at all by having him in the house


I think some other people beat you to this whole domesticating thing, by a few thousand years. You make it sound like you have this wild, savage, hunting beast out in your yard. If you want to keep a dog outside to keep a heavier coat on them to handle cold weather better, go for it, that makes sense. To make any claim that it improves there hunting ability is pretty ridiculous.


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## Fowlmood (Oct 7, 2007)

BIG BUCK DOWN said:


> I assure my dog gets far more physical activity than your inside Chessie, no question about it.


That is 100% pure speculation,,, you don't know me, my dog ( which happens to be a Yellow Lab ) or our training regimen.
I have 2 Labs and we train twice a day, every day. That would be "Structured training", not running around the yard chasing bunnies and birdies.


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## Gina Fox (Nov 4, 2007)

I have a very fine hunting dog (Vizsla) that is ALSO a great family dog! She will hunt all day and is a great lap dog at night. Yes it can be done. NO problem.


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## jrsoup (Mar 2, 2007)

BIG BUCK DOWN said:


> I bought the dog down in Iowa and he recommended to keep him outside. In addition, I dont have him in a little kennel, it is about a 2 acre fenced in area and he does run and play, often with my kids and I. Furthermore, I take him with me twice a week to any open water i can find, harder in winter. He does have social interaction with us but I refuse to domesticate the dog at all by having him in the house for any length of time. He is a hunting dog and this breed has a special demeanor, he is made to hunt and hunt and hunt. Not to be an inside family dog, get a poodle for that. To state that my original post was BS is absurd because you clearly have not had a Chessie, they are different than labs, alot different because I have had both. At any rate, we all have our opinions on these issues, I guess do what works for you and your dog. And he is not my POOR DOG. I feel bad for dogs that are intended to be hunters and the owner puts him/her inside for most of their lives, there insticts are to be in the outdoors not in a 72 degree house. Just my opinion.


This guy lives to argue and stir up ****. You say in he'll say out. Don't waste your time with him. Check the ice fishing forums and you will see what I mean.


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## Fowlmood (Oct 7, 2007)

I see what you mean,,,,, I bet he'd even argue about the tensile strength of a cardboard box !


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## Hoppe's no.10 (Sep 16, 2007)

At the danger of being accused of redundancy from an earlier reply to this thread subsequent responses still again beg the question: If "outdoor" living makes a dog a better hunter then why shouldn't the master do the same? I don't mean to say that one should sleep in a kennel-like structure in the winter but how about walking to work or the grocery store and carrying your purchases home in a backpack, heating/cooking with a wood stove fueled by wood that has been cut, split and stacked by the Chessie's owner. How about buying a book picturing animal tracks and then on a pair of snowshoes going into the winter woods and identifying tracks in the snow or for you "outdoor dog" duck hunting enthusiasts how about buying a canoe or kayak and take a winter float trip down a local river? Wouldn't all of this make you a tougher, stronger hunter more attuned to the world - be it woods or water - from which you seek your game? 

To paraphrase Friedrich Nietzsche: "That which doesn't kill you only makes you stronger." Or why do you demand more from a dumb, subservient animal than you demand from yourself?

Again, there is nothing wrong with keeping a dog outside as long as it has adequate shelter. But to say that this makes a dog a better hunter is just plain silly. The genetic background and subsequent physiology of a dog that has come about from decades if not centuries of breeding is not about to be changed by "sleeping inside." If that sort of thinking were true than I suspect the military would send recruits from the southern and southwestern states to Iraq and save those from the more northern climes for perhaps an invasion of Norway.

Hoppe's no.10
a.k.a Ruger1


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## to far gone (Nov 27, 2007)

I grew up in the days when dogs stayed out side. it wasn't until frontline and other flea meds hit the market that hunting dogs started living in my house. from what i have seen, dogs living out side or inside makes no diff on there ability to hunt. I do think they are a better hunting partner when they spend more time with you by living in the house. there is one issue though, when I take the dog grouse hunting and she rolls in bear **** she rides in the back of the truck on the way home and sleeps in her kennel.


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## cmgronsk10 (Feb 13, 2008)

Hoppe's no.10 said:


> At the danger of being accused of redundancy from an earlier reply to this thread subsequent responses still again beg the question: If "outdoor" living makes a dog a better hunter then why shouldn't the master do the same? I don't mean to say that one should sleep in a kennel-like structure in the winter but how about walking to work or the grocery store and carrying your pruchases home in a backpack, heating/cooking with a wood stove fueled by wood that has been cut, split and stacked by the Chessie's owner. How about buying a book picturing animal tracks and then on a pair of snowshoes going into the winter woods and identifying tracks in the snow or for you "outdoor dog" duck hunting enthusiasts how about buying a canoe or kayak and take a winter float trip down a local river? Wouldn't all of this make you a tougher, stronger hunter more attuned to the world - be it woods or water - from which you seek your game?
> 
> To paraphrase Friedrich Nietzsche: "That which doesn't kill you only makes you stronger." Or why do you demand more from a dumb, subservient animal than you demand from yourself?
> 
> ...


Dogs and human beings are not even comparable. Im sure it took you a long time to come up comments, but they do sound insightful. However, I dont feel the genetics and traits of dogs and humans are close, but I'm not a scientist I think thats crazy. The entire war stuff you talked makes no sense when I am talking about a particular breed of dog staying outside, sorry you are reaching.


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## LostnHungry (Jan 29, 2008)

Hoppe's no.10 said:


> If that sort of thinking were true than I suspect the military would send recruits from the southern and southwestern states to Iraq and save those from the more northern climes for perhaps an invasion of Norway.


We do train for certain climates/terrain mtn warfare school, jungle warfare school. It doesn't really matter, but that is just to learn to deal with the elements and the terrain. Plus it is training, not just leaving people out there. I guess what I meant to say is that the elements can only acclimatize you and give you experience with the terrain/elements. Training comes from the instructors that make you able to adapt/overcome/become better. So it's the trainers not the weather. Like what you were saying.


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

dogs that are in good condition are better hunters and less prone to injury. the same is true for humans. in order to get your dogs and yourself in conditon, you have to extend yourself.

a true birddog is an athlete and all athletes have to work out reguarly and often.


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## initforfun (Dec 21, 2005)

Fowlmood said:


> That is 100% pure speculation,,, you don't know me, my dog ( which happens to be a Yellow Lab ) or our training regimen.
> I have 2 Labs and we train twice a day, every day. That would be "Structured training", not running around the yard chasing bunnies and birdies.


 
Hey Fowl! Was just checking around from another thread to see why BBD seems to be hostile in all his posts and came across this pi.. Just wanted to compliment you on a good lookin duo you have there. Brendan


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## Hoppe's no.10 (Sep 16, 2007)

cmgronsk10 said:


> Dogs and human beings are not even comparable.


Of course they're comparable. For starters: mammals, warm blooded, re-produce sexually, omnivorous etc.

It was less than 200 years that many humans (native Americans, Inuits ((Eskimos)) were dressing in animal skins, their kills/catches making up a large part of their diet and sheltering themselves from the elements in bark or snow structures. And while their lives were often "...short, brutal and savage..." they nonetheless survived and they were undoubtedly good hunters and tough humans to say the least. So again - if a dog is tougher and a better hunter by being kept outside it stands to reason that the master will be a tougher and better hunter by continually challenging the elements - often at daily inconvenience and dis-comfort. If it's good for the dog shouldn't it also be good for the master? 

But of course the master won't because technology has supplanted necessity - central heating etc. If this technology is OK for us to use at the expense of being "tough" then why not share some it with our canine companions whom we have socialized and bred for our own welfare and well being while oftentimes ignoring theirs?

Hoppe's no.10
a.k.a. Ruger1


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## Fowlmood (Oct 7, 2007)

Thanks for the compliment initforfun. My Dawgs and I appreciate it.:coolgleam

Hoppe's no10,
I like the way you think. I extend all of my creature comforts to my Dawgs. 
Always have, and always will !


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

even when humans lived in the so called stone age, such as pre columbian indians, we had far more technology than any of the other animals. first and foremost was fire, then clothing to protect our hairless bodies and shelter, first caves and then structures that we manufactured to keep the heat in and the elements out.

people do harden themselves to the elements to some degree. construction workers may work outside all winter long. soldiers in wwII fought in the snow for months. 

but animals, including dogs are different, the heat themselves internally from the food they eat, body fat with layers of hair to hold the heat in. my neighbor has a bunch of very high priced angus cattle. they are outside all the time, regardless of the temperature and even calve in extreme cold.

being a "better hunter' is genetic for the large part. but any individual dog will do a better job if he gets a lot of exercise. a person could live in a condo, but if he can get his dog out a couple hours a day for real exercise- not a walk on a leash, that dog can do a better job of hunting. the feet will be tougher, he'll have more endurance and more muscle tone.


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## Hevi (May 18, 2004)

LostnHungry said:


> a few people I've talked to seem to be under the impression that hunting dogs need to be left outside, not ever let into the house, and not be part of the family--just used as tools for one purpose...to hunt.


 
Dumbest thing I've ever heard. Don't believe it for a second.


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## GSP Gal (Nov 12, 2005)

Hoppe's no.10 said:


> Of course they're comparable. For starters: mammals, warm blooded, re-produce sexually, omnivorous etc.
> 
> It was less than 200 years that many humans (native Americans, Inuits ((Eskimos)) were dressing in animal skins, their kills/catches making up a large part of their diet and sheltering themselves from the elements in bark or snow structures. And while their lives were often "...short, brutal and savage..." they nonetheless survived and they were undoubtedly good hunters and tough humans to say the least. So again - if a dog is tougher and a better hunter by being kept outside it stands to reason that the master will be a tougher and better hunter by continually challenging the elements - often at daily inconvenience and dis-comfort. If it's good for the dog shouldn't it also be good for the master?
> 
> ...


Hoppe's is spot on here. If anybody is over 40 here, and cares to admit it, you may remember kennel dogs living to 8-9 years tops. With the level of veterinary care and other care accessable to us, why wouldn't we use it to enjoy and take care of your most loyal companions?

In 1976, I moved one of our shorthairs into the house, and immediately, he was written off as a "ruined" dog. I had to prove them other wise. We competed in obedience and won. He out hunted the kennel dogs. He ranged where he should. He lived to be 15 years old. 

And as far as hunting skill, its there or not. Has nothing to do with with where the dog lives. If you let him get out of shape, in the kennel, in the pasture, or on your couch, thats your fault.

As an obedience trainer, I think the old thought of a house dog not being a good hunter comes from the old timers thinking the dog needs to be on the edge of out of control to have drive. We all have seen poorly trained dogs headracing through the field, running over birds, chasing deer, and eating shot birds instead of bringing them back. After all, if you make him behave, you will take away his drive. I have a GSP with the biggest on and off switch you will ever see. A few of you know this.

And if the dog is devoid of social skills, why would he hunt *with* you? He's going to hunt for himself. 

And if my dog if going to do marathon hunting, I had better be out there doing laps with him/her.


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## sidnaw59 (Jan 4, 2008)

My Britts are like family, and they hunt for me as hard as they can. They stay in the house and when I'm not home they take my place next to momma. Give them exercise, good solid training, a warm fireplace, and they will hunt till you drop!


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

keep your dog where you want, but i'm well over 40, we raised setters in the 50's and 60's, kept them in kennels and they lived just as long as dogs do today, 12-15 yrs. sorry.


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