# I did not know



## Northernfisher (Jul 29, 2010)

I was fishing the St. Mary's yesterday and I caught a Rainbow Cutthroat hi-bred. I did not even know they were in the great lakes. Someone told me told me they had been planted years ago. It appears they were correct:


_" In 1895 the Michigan Fish Commission began planting cutthroat trout in the south branch of the Pere Marquette River, a tributary to Lake Michigan (Michigan State Board of Fish Commissioners 1897). Michigan continued to stock cutthroat trout in state waters from 1895 to 1940. A total of 105,000 fish were stocked by Michigan, but apparently all introductions failed because no fish were reported caught from waters of the upper Great Lakes basin (Holcomb 1964). Cutthroat trout may also have been introduced into Canadian waters of Georgian Bay, but the year or years of introduction and the outcome were not reported (McAllister and Crossman 1973). " # 1_

If you did not look at the throat you would have said it was a stealhead.

Sorry, I did not get a picture of the throat.
_

# 1 http://www.glfc.org/pubs/TechReports/Tr45.pdf_


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## Gordon Casey (Jun 13, 2017)

Northernfisher said:


> I was fishing the St. Mary's yesterday and I caught a Rainbow Cutthroat hi-bred. I did not even know they were in the great lakes. Someone told me told me they had been planted years ago. It appears they were correct:
> 
> 
> _" In 1895 the Michigan Fish Commission began planting cutthroat trout in the south branch of the Pere Marquette River, a tributary to Lake Michigan (Michigan State Board of Fish Commissioners 1897). Michigan continued to stock cutthroat trout in state waters from 1895 to 1940. A total of 105,000 fish were stocked by Michigan, but apparently all introductions failed because no fish were reported caught from waters of the upper Great Lakes basin (Holcomb 1964). Cutthroat trout may also have been introduced into Canadian waters of Georgian Bay, but the year or years of introduction and the outcome were not reported (McAllister and Crossman 1973). " # 1_
> ...


If I can ask, where were you fishing??? main run Rapids?? Inside berm?? Trolling?? I'm planning a visit in the next few weeks, fishing whitefish in the upper river. Perch run should be happening as well.


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## Northernfisher (Jul 29, 2010)

Gordon Casey said:


> If I can ask, where were you fishing??? main run Rapids?? Inside berm?? Trolling?? I'm planning a visit in the next few weeks, fishing whitefish in the upper river. Perch run should be happening as well.


Sure you can ask.

Floats and lures.

Rapids - With John Giuliani. When you have as little time to fish as I get, you want to fish with the best guide you can get. For the rapids that is John by a mile. (Sorry, I am not going to give away John's spots).

https://www.stmarysrapidsguiding.com/


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## Gordon Casey (Jun 13, 2017)

Northernfisher said:


> Sure you can ask.
> 
> Floats and lures.
> 
> ...


i TA


Northernfisher said:


> Sure you can ask.
> 
> Floats and lures.
> 
> ...


I talk with John all the time when I'm up there. I'm guessing the inside berm, I bet the main runs are raging now.


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## DrSpeck (Nov 12, 2015)

My wife caught one of the cutbows when we went with John last May. Beautiful fish. Had a small amount of the cutthroat coloring and was quite vibrant.


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## Northernfisher (Jul 29, 2010)

DrSpeck said:


> My wife caught one of the cutbows when we went with John last May. Beautiful fish. Had a small amount of the cutthroat coloring and was quite vibrant.
> View attachment 394625


5 fish yesterday / 5 fish today. All fresh.

John is great. He puts you on the holes, even if the best ones are taken. For those of us that do not have the time to learn the river like the back of our hands it is the way to go.

He has the 2nd open as of this afternoon. Go for it.


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## Northernfisher (Jul 29, 2010)

Gordon Casey said:


> i TA
> 
> I talk with John all the time when I'm up there. I'm guessing the inside berm, I bet the main runs are raging now.


Better yet - Hire him. He has to make a living also. (Not that you are not).


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## Gordon Casey (Jun 13, 2017)

Northernfisher said:


> Better yet - Hire him. He has to make a living also. (Not that you are not).


I have fished that area for over 20 consecutive years. There are just so many holes to fish and any veteran to the area knows where they are. I have said many, many, many times it's all about technique, it's how you fish them. It's a difficult place to learn, fishing techniques change all the time and when and how to use them is the secret. John is on the river all the time so he knows what will work. It's a sad story but the fall salmon fishery as we had in the past is just about dead. Kings and coho's are virtually non existent. The "bread and butter" fishery is Atlantics and rainbow and an odd king. Fishing in Canada is a blood sport, there are a handful of die hard guys that are out there daily and information is almost never shared, deception is the rule. We will get together, over a few beers and talk a little fishing. It's funny to hear all the BS spread all around, about which 90% is actual BS. John is the best bet on the river to put clients on fish, but his options are now very limited.
I have heard that the US Border Patrol have been messing with certain Canadian guides as far as taking clients into US waters without proper documentation. Apparently it's OK to recreational fish but not OK to charge for fishing, I believe you need a NEXUS card or check into customs before entering into US waters. I will get more detail when I'm up there in a few weeks. Maybe you have information to share on this topic.


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## UPBeerguy (Mar 19, 2018)

Since he is a guide what is his phone number? Does he have a web site?


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## Northernfisher (Jul 29, 2010)

David Cords said:


> Since he is a guide what is his phone number? Does he have a web site?



I do not know if this is his official web site:

His phone is 705-575-5570
I also have a cell 906-203-9112 ( I am not sure that works)

email [email protected]

He did have the 2nd open the last I talked with him. It is like he said - it takes a while to learn the river and you are going to have people in the stop you want to fish etc etc. What works one day does not work the next.


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## Northernfisher (Jul 29, 2010)

Gordon Casey said:


> I have fished that area for over 20 consecutive years. There are just so many holes to fish and any veteran to the area knows where they are. I have said many, many, many times it's all about technique, it's how you fish them. It's a difficult place to learn, fishing techniques change all the time and when and how to use them is the secret. John is on the river all the time so he knows what will work. It's a sad story but the fall salmon fishery as we had in the past is just about dead. Kings and coho's are virtually non existent. The "bread and butter" fishery is Atlantics and rainbow and an odd king. Fishing in Canada is a blood sport, there are a handful of die hard guys that are out there daily and information is almost never shared, deception is the rule. We will get together, over a few beers and talk a little fishing. It's funny to hear all the BS spread all around, about which 90% is actual BS. John is the best bet on the river to put clients on fish, but his options are now very limited.
> I have heard that the US Border Patrol have been messing with certain Canadian guides as far as taking clients into US waters without proper documentation. Apparently it's OK to recreational fish but not OK to charge for fishing, I believe you need a NEXUS card or check into customs before entering into US waters. I will get more detail when I'm up there in a few weeks. Maybe you have information to share on this topic.



Boy you have that right. Lots of BS floating in that river. (It is still one of my favorite spots to fish.) 

We many have fished it different than most, but you do not know because you do not know what they are using.

I hope you do not think I am trying to be a hard guy. I have fished with John for years and just want to be careful that I do not give away anything he is working hard to keep secret.

There is some of the trees/brush available on the main river. Most people were fishing inside the wall or off the wall. (Not saying where we fished). That said, anyone can see where the John is if he is on the river. (I have to get him a Romulan cloaking device). 

This is true for any guide. I laughed at the guys in Florida that would put these great wraps on their boats for advertisement and then complain that people watch them and jump their spots.


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## Gordon Casey (Jun 13, 2017)

Northernfisher said:


> Boy you have that right. Lots of BS floating in that river. (It is still one of my favorite spots to fish.)
> 
> We many have fished it different than most, but you do not know because you do not know what they are using.
> 
> ...


The Canadian Sault area fishing is nothing but deception. I could tell you story after story about all the stuff I have seen over the years. We used to change all the lures on the rods before we got to the dock because people would always look into the boat to see what you were using. We would put on big flatfish, river runts, jitterbugs you could see the guys get pi..ed off, they knew what was going on. You said people were fishing on the wall, were they casting into the main run??? How in the hell could they handle all that current, they would never control a fish if hooked. Maybe you get them hydro surfing to reduce the pressure on the rod?? Fishing the Sault is all about technique. When we fish for whitefish the bait has to be EXACTLY 3 inches off the botton, we use a flasher to locate the weights. You will get skunked if your not exact. I could tell you where to go, what to use and how to use it and if your not doing it correctly you will not catch 1 fish. We limit out almost every time. Back in the day you could catch 25 so all my relatives would get fish to eat.


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## Northernfisher (Jul 29, 2010)

Gordon Casey said:


> The Canadian Sault area fishing is nothing but deception. I could tell you story after story about all the stuff I have seen over the years. We used to change all the lures on the rods before we got to the dock because people would always look into the boat to see what you were using. We would put on big flatfish, river runts, jitterbugs you could see the guys get pi..ed off, they knew what was going on. You said people were fishing on the wall, were they casting into the main run??? How in the hell could they handle all that current, they would never control a fish if hooked. Maybe you get them hydro surfing to reduce the pressure on the rod?? Fishing the Sault is all about technique. When we fish for whitefish the bait has to be EXACTLY 3 inches off the botton, we use a flasher to locate the weights. You will get skunked if your not exact. I could tell you where to go, what to use and how to use it and if your not doing it correctly you will not catch 1 fish. We limit out almost every time. Back in the day you could catch 25 so all my relatives would get fish to eat.


I have fished the main river up by the gates and landed fish. 
John's website is :

https://www.stmarysrapidsguiding.com

per John


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## Gordon Casey (Jun 13, 2017)

Northernfisher said:


> I have fished the main river up by the gates and landed fish.
> John's website is :
> 
> https://www.stmarysrapidsguiding.com
> ...


You were fishing below the rail bridge where the water flow is a little less aggressive. How many years ago was that?? how many gates were open??


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## Northernfisher (Jul 29, 2010)

Gordon Casey said:


> You were fishing below the rail bridge where the water flow is a little less aggressive. How many years ago was that?? how many gates were open??


It was not at the gates, but I have landed kings on a center-pin in the main river. The river width is close to the same all the way down so the only thing that changes the flow is the depth.

Knowing where you can wade and the holes to land the fish is part of the reason I fish with John. I do not want to die and I do not get to fish it as much as I would like. Where you can wade chances from day to day.


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## Gordon Casey (Jun 13, 2017)

Northernfisher said:


> It was not at the gates, but I have landed kings on a center-pin in the main river. The river width is close to the same all the way down so the only thing that changes the flow is the depth.
> 
> Knowing where you can wade and the holes to land the fish is part of the reason I fish with John. I do not want to die and I do not get to fish it as much as I would like. Where you can wade chances from day to day.


Do you know where the "5 sisters" are in the inside berm??? If not, they are 5 exposed rocks that define the path to take when crossing the inside runs to get to the main run. They may be underwater with the gates wide open. But on second thought the inside berm runs are controlled by 1 or2 gates only and the water may be more stable. I don't fish the rapids anymore, my knees can't take it anymore. There are spots in the inside berm that can be fished from shore if you know how to get to them.


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## Northernfisher (Jul 29, 2010)

Gordon Casey said:


> Do you know where the "5 sisters" are in the inside berm??? If not, they are 5 exposed rocks that define the path to take when crossing the inside runs to get to the main run. They may be underwater with the gates wide open. But on second thought the inside berm runs are controlled by 1 or2 gates only and the water may be more stable. I don't fish the rapids anymore, my knees can't take it anymore. There are spots in the inside berm that can be fished from shore if you know how to get to them.


I know how to get out to the wall. The issue is more if you are wading in the main river. We have waded to the US before. That is not something that I would do on my own.


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## Gordon Casey (Jun 13, 2017)

Northernfisher said:


> It was not at the gates, but I have landed kings on a center-pin in the main river. The river width is close to the same all the way down so the only thing that changes the flow is the depth.
> 
> Knowing where you can wade and the holes to land the fish is part of the reason I fish with John. I do not want to die and I do not get to fish it as much as I would like. Where you can wade chances from day to day.


Bet you center pinned the main runs about 4-5 years ago. The water is too treacherous now to take a chance. The last time I was there all the coffer dams were wide open.


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## Gordon Casey (Jun 13, 2017)

Again, t


Northernfisher said:


> I know how to get out to the wall. The issue is more if you are wading in the main river. We have wader to the US before. That is not something that I would do on my own.


That has to be 4-5 years ago the raging rapids will kill you now with all the gates open.


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