# Anyone recognize these gentlemen?? SW Saginaw county.



## Yohann (Sep 15, 2009)

I would be very appreciative of any help offered.


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## Boardman Brookies (Dec 20, 2007)

They look like they are on a mission


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## Nice Shot 1982 (Aug 31, 2013)

Looks like a couple of absolute cowards to me.


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## caj33 (Jul 4, 2009)

Nope, sorry, looks like some real winners there!!


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## hk_sl8 (Oct 24, 2011)

Marion Springs welcoming committee. Looks like they forgot the fruit basket.


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## jstfish48162 (Mar 8, 2003)

What’s the story?


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Hope that they found their dog.

L & O


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## Yohann (Sep 15, 2009)

jstfish48162 said:


> What’s the story?


Story is I was warned about a certain family to the north when I bought the property. I live about an hour away so can't watch out the back window. I actually have the names of both individuals now. The logger I hired recognized them right away. 
Last fall I had the place surveyed and placed no trespassing signs every 30 yards along the north boundary. I had found 2 stands on my property.
I've had 3 occasions where things have dissapearred from the property in the first year of owning it. I talked to the local CO and he said the only thing I can do to put a stop to trespassing is to prosecute. Anybody been through this process? These guys probably had run of the place previously because it was in foreclosure with no other hunters or landowners watching it. I would like to settle things outside of court but if the survey, signs, logging, and perimeter trail didn't send the message to keep out I'm not sure I can play nice anymore.


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## AntiHuntersLoveMe (Apr 18, 2012)

Looks like Aaron Kaufman from Gas Monkey Garage... Lol Maybe he's taken up deer hunting since his break up with Richard Rawlings? I'd be mad as hell if he was smoking in my huntin spot as well. I feel your pain 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## jstfish48162 (Mar 8, 2003)

Have you spoken with the County Sheriff’s Office? Or local police?

Hopefully something can get resolved before it gets worse.


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## Doghouse 5 (Apr 1, 2017)

Yohann said:


> Story is I was warned about a certain family to the north when I bought the property. I live about an hour away so can't watch out the back window. I actually have the names of both individuals now. The logger I hired recognized them right away.
> Last fall I had the place surveyed and placed no trespassing signs every 30 yards along the north boundary. I had found 2 stands on my property.
> I've had 3 occasions where things have dissapearred from the property in the first year of owning it. I talked to the local CO and he said the only thing I can do to put a stop to trespassing is to prosecute. Anybody been through this process? These guys probably had run of the place previously because it was in foreclosure with no other hunters or landowners watching it. I would like to settle things outside of court but if the survey, signs, logging, and perimeter trail didn't send the message to keep out I'm not sure I can play nice anymore.


The question is, "Would they play nice with you, especially if they were given the chance "!!
In my opinion, you have given plenty of chances based on the things that you have "shown" them.. (trail,signs,logging etc..)


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## jstfish48162 (Mar 8, 2003)

I would get a couple “Video Surveillance in use” signs and post them in obvious, but not easily accessible, spots at the usual entrance point.

If that doesn’t work, then I would send the message in a little more forceful way.


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## fowl (Feb 15, 2003)

Used to own hunting property
1.5 hrs from where I lived. Trespassing and poaching there was a Fn nightmare. Confronted multiple trespassers over the years that were aggressive and confrontational. Only when I showed up with the Sherrif did they calm down. Also found gut piles and drag marks on field edges out to the road (road poachers no doubt). Sanilac county. Glad to not have to deal with that anymore. Really disappointing display of scumbags. Where I live now no one even posts their property
and have had no issues. Different region of the state, love it.


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## cwalker5586 (Nov 6, 2010)

If it was me I'd search the local marriage licenses and look for two with the same last name cause I'm pretty sure the guy with headband probably married his sister and the other guy was most likely his best man


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## Doghouse 5 (Apr 1, 2017)

cwalker5586 said:


> If it was me I'd search the local marriage licenses and look for two with the same last name cause I'm pretty sure the guy with headband probably married his sister and the other guy was most likely his best man


That's funny! !!


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## jstfish48162 (Mar 8, 2003)

Yeah lol
The guy with the headband is known as “Uncle Dad”


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## Doghouse 5 (Apr 1, 2017)

jstfish48162 said:


> Yeah lol
> The guy with the headband is known as “Uncle Dad”


That's funny also!!!


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## fowl (Feb 15, 2003)

I'm pretty easy going, my brother not so much. He ran into one of the neighbors waiting in his truck on the road. Had sent his son into our property after a deer they saw. My brother came unglued on the guy. Almost dragged him outta the truck and whooped his ass. Pretty funny actually.


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## spznation (Oct 19, 2011)

If you do not prosecute all future trespassing will be 100% your own fault. If criminals feel they can get away with trespassing they will continue to do so. Not prosecuting ensures that they will in fact get away with it.


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## Yohann (Sep 15, 2009)

fowl said:


> I'm pretty easy going, my brother not so much. He ran into one of the neighbors waiting in his truck on the road. Had sent his son into our property after a deer they saw. My brother came unglued on the guy. Almost dragged him outta the truck and whooped his ass. Pretty funny actually.


Would your brother be willing to come knock on these guys' doors for me?


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## Playin' Hooky (Aug 29, 2002)

Careful...the guy w the bandana looks like Chuck Norris' cousin...


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## fowl (Feb 15, 2003)

Playin' Hooky said:


> Careful...the guy w the bandana looks like Chuck Norris' cousin...[/QUOT
> Well, like most, age, marriage, and kids have calmed him down quite a bit. But good luck. I feel your pain. Lol.


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## fowl (Feb 15, 2003)

Age, marriage, and kids have calmed him down a bit. You'd have to push his buttons more than that to bring out the old dude. Lol.


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## johnhunter247 (Mar 12, 2011)

Looks like there out for a Sunday afternoon walk and smoke...


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## Nice Shot 1982 (Aug 31, 2013)

Very easy. Talk to local law enforcement. Provide the pics. They'll contact offenders and proceed with prosecution. Doesn't get much easier than that. I've had scum prosecuted with far less evidence.


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## Sharkbait11 (Apr 7, 2017)

johnhunter247 said:


> Looks like there out for a Sunday afternoon walk and smoke...


just out for a little cardio! Why are trespassers always wearing blue jeans...


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## Flight of the arrow (Feb 11, 2008)

cwalker5586 said:


> If it was me I'd search the local marriage licenses and look for two with the same last name cause I'm pretty sure the guy with headband probably married his sister and the other guy was most likely his best man


Got my good laugh for the day, the was awesome thanks!!!
Flight


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Seems like the property owner has done everything.....

Except getting to know his neighbors.

Judging someone by the way they look or dress. May not be quite as accurate as getting to know them, or as effective in reaching your goal.


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## eyecatcher1 (Apr 22, 2004)

swampbuck said:


> Seems like the property owner has done everything.....
> 
> Except getting to know his neighbors.
> 
> Judging someone by the way they look or dress. May not be quite as accurate as getting to know them, or as effective in reaching your goal.


I agree and the best way to get to know these neighbors is to meet with them and the local sheriff.


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## Bomba (Jul 26, 2005)

swampbuck said:


> Seems like the property owner has done everything.....
> 
> Except getting to know his neighbors.
> 
> Judging someone by the way they look or dress. May not be quite as accurate as getting to know them, or as effective in reaching your goal.


So by meeting his neighbors this will stop them from trespassing on his property?


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## Whitetail1 (Oct 17, 2008)

Fools like these two numnuts have no respect for anything. Not even themselves. Just look at em...
They KNOW the signs are there. They KNOW where the property lines are. They know where EVERYONES property lines are at. They are in the mindset that THEY are invincible. NO ONE tells them what to do. That's how scum like this roll.
The only thing that may get their attention is the financial burden of paying a trespassing fine. I say go for the throat! NO holds barred!
Lock everything you have up and have trail cams everywhere around your stuff. 
If you don't, they will smell your weakness and you will battle this forever.

Best of luck.


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## gatorman841 (Mar 4, 2010)

Nice Shot 1982 said:


> Very easy. Talk to local law enforcement. Provide the pics. They'll contact offenders and proceed with prosecution. Doesn't get much easier than that. I've had scum prosecuted with far less evidence.


Just make sure your NO TRESSPASSING sign are the legal size and not any smaller before you contact a Leo. Without proper size signs might raise a issue


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## Nitro225Optimax (Feb 13, 2011)

If they were teens, I’d give a warning. These are grown men and know exactly what they are doing. If they stole a candy bar from a local gas station, would you give a warning? Or prosecute? I’d prosecute. As others have said, this isn’t their first rodeo. You will have problems whether you prosecute them or not. At least by prosecuting, you will have an official history on record. If they are caught again, they cannot day it was their first time and ask for leniency.


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## motdean (Oct 23, 2011)

Nice Shot 1982 said:


> Very easy. Talk to local law enforcement. Provide the pics. They'll contact offenders and proceed with prosecution. Doesn't get much easier than that. I've had scum prosecuted with far less evidence.


Just a quick point of clarification, the local police arrest, the prosecutor prosecutes. The reason that I say that is I was told by the State Police that it would take catching the trespasser 3-4 times before they would prosecute....

The DNR, however, took care of it on the first visit....I think it was called Checkmate. 

Also, we did not have any signs posting the property. According to the DNR, it is not the landowner's responsibility to make sure that the trespasser knows where the property lines are....at least that is what I was told at the time.


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## FIRE526 (Nov 2, 2006)

I talk to the DNR about an issue like this before and they said to call the DNR and get them for recreational trespass because the fines and time in jail would be more than a regular trespass filed with the sheriff.


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## AntiHuntersLoveMe (Apr 18, 2012)

FIRE526 said:


> I talk to the DNR about an issue like this before and they said to call the DNR and get them for recreational trespass because the fines and time in jail would be more than a regular trespass filed with the sheriff.


What's the difference? Recreational trespass is recreational trespass no matter who writes the citation...

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Captain (Feb 11, 2000)

Is the one blowing a Snot rocket?


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## jjlrrw (May 1, 2006)

motdean said:


> Just a quick point of clarification, the local police arrest, the prosecutor prosecutes. The reason that I say that is I was told by the State Police that it would take catching the trespasser 3-4 times before they would prosecute....
> 
> The DNR, however, took care of it on the first visit....I think it was called Checkmate.
> 
> *Also, we did not have any signs posting the property. According to the DNR, it is not the landowner's responsibility to make sure that the trespasser knows where the property lines are....at least that is what I was told at the time.*


^^^ bold I think at one time that was the case but today there is the recreational trespass involves a person entering the non-farming property of another to engage in recreational activity without the owner’s consent. That type of property must be either fenced or otherwise enclosed, or posted with a sign prohibiting trespassing that meets certain requirements. So to try and prosecute the property would need to meet the posted requirements (the 4x6 orange cards are only good to keep honest people from entering) if property is posted to the requirement then they still could have an out with exceptions involving anglers and retrieval of hunting dogs.

If you have not yet talked to these people maybe it's worth a stop by and let them know who you are and that you are spending a lot of time on the property and noticed them on one of your game cameras, show them the picture. To prosecute I think they need to catch them in the act.


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## FIRE526 (Nov 2, 2006)

3 different kinds of trespassing recreational, misdemeanor and felony.


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## skipper34 (Oct 13, 2005)

And the beat goes on. Again, the very reason that I would never even consider owning hunting land anywhere in this or any other state. Way too old now to have to deal with this nightmare.


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## Nitro225Optimax (Feb 13, 2011)

Captain said:


> Is the one blowing a Snot rocket?



No, looks like he’s taking a last drag on a cig and about to toss it...you know, the brilliant forest fire starter type.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

swampbuck said:


> Seems like the property owner has done everything.....
> 
> Except getting to know his neighbors.
> 
> Judging someone by the way they look or dress. May not be quite as accurate as getting to know them, or as effective in reaching your goal.



ABSOLUTELY predictable response from you swampy. You never disappoint! SMH


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Same crap, different day

Opening day of bow some years back a guy walks below my stand with 2 little kids in tow. 

Starts pleading some Indian decree and his ancestry... A visit to his house stopped that crap! In Ionia County


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

Captain said:


> Is the one blowing a Snot rocket?





Nitro225Optimax said:


> No, looks like he’s taking a last drag on a cig and about to toss it...you know, the brilliant forest fire starter type.


The cig is in his left hand. I think he is blowing a Snot rocket!


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## Nitro225Optimax (Feb 13, 2011)

QDMAMAN said:


> The cig is in his left hand. I think he is blowing a Snot rocket!



Yup. Went back and looked again, see that now. Knuckle deep for green gold or snot rocket.


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## MossyHorns (Apr 14, 2011)

motdean said:


> Also, we did not have any signs posting the property. According to the DNR, it is not the landowner's responsibility to make sure that the trespasser knows where the property lines are....at least that is what I was told at the time.


How long ago was this? A buddy of mine took pictures of a trespassers license plate while it was parked on his property last year during archery season. He talked to a DNR officer and offered to send him a picture of the plate, but right away the CO asked him if his property was properly posted. He told the officer no and that's when the CO told my buddy there was nothing he could do.


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## Craves (Feb 16, 2010)

swampbuck said:


> Seems like the property owner has done everything.....
> 
> Except getting to know his neighbors.
> 
> Judging someone by the way they look or dress. May not be quite as accurate as getting to know them, or as effective in reaching your goal.


This bit of knowledge brought to you by the Drive By Biologist who wrote in these forums that he was going to shoot NW12 button bucks out of spite this year....more than once!

You really can't make this stuff up.

And the beat goes on...


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## motdean (Oct 23, 2011)

MossyHorns said:


> How long ago was this? A buddy of mine took pictures of a trespassers license plate while it was parked on his property last year during archery season. He talked to a DNR officer and offered to send him a picture of the plate, but right away the CO asked him if his property was properly posted. He told the officer no and that's when the CO told my buddy there was nothing he could do.


It was a few years ago....


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## Yohann (Sep 15, 2009)

swampbuck said:


> Seems like the property owner has done everything.....
> 
> Except getting to know his neighbors.
> 
> Judging someone by the way they look or dress. May not be quite as accurate as getting to know them, or as effective in reaching your goal.


You know, I do wish I had knocked on doors and met all my neighbors immediately upon purchase. Maybe if they knew me they would respect me and my property. They do have a right to disrespect me, my property, and help themselves to what isn't theirs since I didn't introduce myself. (Sarcasm)


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

Yohann said:


> I would be very appreciative of any help offered.


Pretty sure I recognize them....Isn't that Will Farrell wearing the bandana? How he teamed up with that Tickle feller from Moonshiners is puzzling.


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## jr28schalm (Mar 16, 2006)

motdean said:


> Just a quick point of clarification, the local police arrest, the prosecutor prosecutes. The reason that I say that is I was told by the State Police that it would take catching the trespasser 3-4 times before they would prosecute....
> 
> The DNR, however, took care of it on the first visit....I think it was called Checkmate.
> 
> Also, we did not have any signs posting the property. According to the DNR, it is not the landowner's responsibility to make sure that the trespasser knows where the property lines are....at least that is what I was told at the time.


State cops are good for takein my stuff, the dnr on other hand checked my card and said have a good day..lol true story and the beat goes on


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## Yohann (Sep 15, 2009)

So we have begun a new chapter to this story...
Sunday around 12:30pm I received a call from the neighboring property owner. They have a deer camp on the south side of my property. A young man stopped by who had shot a deer that ran in to my property. I asked to speak to the man. Turns out he is the son of one of my trespassers and nephew of the other. 
Consumers energy OWNS the property on the north edge of mine. The man was sitting in a tree stand on my property line and shot the deer on consumers property. I explained to him that it is illegal to hunt on consumers property and that the stand needed to come down. I told him about the picture I had and that I would not tolerate trespassing. I also told him I appreciate that he checked with someone before retrieving his deer and to save my number and call if he ever needs it. I told him to go ahead and track his deer as long as he had boood. I also asked my neighbor to the south to accompany him on the track which he was glad to do. 
We will see if this message is relayed to the elders. I may still pay them a visit and show them the picture.
My hope is that by the kid being respectful, and me showing a human side, that the relationship will become one of mutual respect. To be continued...


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## Grizzly Adams (Oct 6, 2003)

Those dirtbags will never show any respect. Prosecuting will only get your tires slashed etc. Bring some tough dudes with you & tell them what's up.


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## eyecatcher1 (Apr 22, 2004)

Yohann said:


> So we have begun a new chapter to this story...
> Sunday around 12:30pm I received a call from the neighboring property owner. They have a deer camp on the south side of my property. A young man stopped by who had shot a deer that ran in to my property. I asked to speak to the man. Turns out he is the son of one of my trespassers and nephew of the other.
> Consumers energy OWNS the property on the north edge of mine. The man was sitting in a tree stand on my property line and shot the deer on consumers property. I explained to him that it is illegal to hunt on consumers property and that the stand needed to come down. I told him about the picture I had and that I would not tolerate trespassing. I also told him I appreciate that he checked with someone before retrieving his deer and to save my number and call if he ever needs it. I told him to go ahead and track his deer as long as he had boood. I also asked my neighbor to the south to accompany him on the track which he was glad to do.
> We will see if this message is relayed to the elders. I may still pay them a visit and show them the picture.
> My hope is that by the kid being respectful, and me showing a human side, that the relationship will become one of mutual respect. To be continued...


That's a great start and a step in the right direction.


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## Greatest hunter in world? (Apr 3, 2017)

Yohann said:


> Story is I was warned about a certain family to the north when I bought the property. I live about an hour away so can't watch out the back window. I actually have the names of both individuals now. The logger I hired recognized them right away.
> Last fall I had the place surveyed and placed no trespassing signs every 30 yards along the north boundary. I had found 2 stands on my property.
> I've had 3 occasions where things have dissapearred from the property in the first year of owning it. I talked to the local CO and he said the only thing I can do to put a stop to trespassing is to prosecute. Anybody been through this process? These guys probably had run of the place previously because it was in foreclosure with no other hunters or landowners watching it. I would like to settle things outside of court but if the survey, signs, logging, and perimeter trail didn't send the message to keep out I'm not sure I can play nice anymore.


You can sue them for recreational trespass in district court, recover $750 plus your reasonable attorney fees. That should put an end to it. You got a pretty good photo there of the guy to the right. Combine that with the testimony of the people who warned you about these yahoos, and from the forester, and you've got a strong case. Civil cases have a much lower burden of proof than criminal cases. That should put an end to it. Hit someone in the pocketbook, and they will usually knock it off.


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## hk_sl8 (Oct 24, 2011)

I would have said Mr Carhart might be Charlie Manson before yesterday. 

Good luck with them Yohann. Deal with them in a way where you can look back and say you're satisfied with your behavior because that's all you can control. But I would never hesitate to use the nuclear option if they choose to be hard headed about it.


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

jstfish48162 said:


> Have you spoken with the County Sheriff’s Office? Or local police?
> 
> Hopefully something can get resolved before it gets worse.


In Montcalm county you are better off calling a CO. As stated by a sheriff's deputy a few years ago when they were presented with pictures of a guy smoking pot and fully passed out. They could not do any thing unless they caught the person them selves. Where we live we seldom see a sheriffs car so catching any one is a joke.


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## dontbesosensitive (Jan 27, 2014)

When you speak to them again remind them of the penalty for shooting a deer on someone elses property while trespassing. $1000.00 fine, $1000.00 restitution, 5-90 days in jail, and revocation of hunting licenses for 3 additional years.


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## Yohann (Sep 15, 2009)

Thanks guys for all the advise and tips based on previous experience. It helps to hear some reasoning from a third party.


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## noshow (Sep 24, 2010)

Yohann said:


> Thanks guys for all the advise and tips based on previous experience. It helps to hear some reasoning from a third party.


Make sure your property is properly posted on all sides or the DNR will do nothing.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

beetlebomb said:


> I would never prosecute this type of scumbag. Too often they get a vendetta against you and make your life hell. In fact I don’t think you can prosecute them unless they’re dumb enough to confess. Unless the laws have changed….years ago I had a friend who set up cameras and the DNR told him they would not hold up as evidence n court.
> Seems to me the best plan is to approach these two and tell them they can hunt as long as they keep everyone else off. Might even be able to get them to do a little QDM work around there.


Serious post ?

L & O


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## beetlebomb (Feb 5, 2014)

Liver and Onions said:


> Serious post ?
> 
> L & O


Very serious! Do you know ANYONE who has successfully prosecuted for trespassing and what evidence they used?


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

beetlebomb said:


> Very serious! Do you know ANYONE who has successfully prosecuted for trespassing and what evidence they used?


A simple Google search will give you a dozen or so articles where trespassers were prosecuted from game cameras. They are no different than Security cameras used on homes and businesses. The key to prosecuting a trespasser is taking the steps to post your property correctly if you want prosecution to stick.


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## beetlebomb (Feb 5, 2014)

This is interesting.... 

https://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/hunting/2015/11/do’s-and-don’ts-dealing-trespassers

And this:
"Be sure you are up-to-date on your state's laws regarding videotaping or filming before installing a camera. You can do this by speaking with a local attorney".

For me to believe that camera evidence would stick in court in Michigan I would have to see it with my own eyes. Googling cases from around the country mean nothing, it's state laws that count and my friend I trust told me the DNR said camera evidence won't hold up in court.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

beetlebomb said:


> This is interesting....
> 
> https://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/hunting/2015/11/do’s-and-don’ts-dealing-trespassers
> 
> ...


Haven't you ever seen a story on the news that started.....police are looking for information on this person? Then they show pictures or video of a suspect.


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## beetlebomb (Feb 5, 2014)

Pinefarm2015 said:


> I don’t know what it is with trespassers and smoking. There must be some correlation because smoking now mainly occurs with lower income folks. It typically seems that it’s deer hunters from the lower class that openly disrespect their neighbors, like in these type threads.
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ng-but-the-poor-didnt/?utm_term=.3536b629c87a
> 
> The big fat slob bear houndsmen that trespass all over our area all seem to have a smoke going at all times. And the seem to be walking heart attacks because all of them I’ve found on my property seem around 150lbs over weight, while they ironically stopped for a smoke, to catch their breath. With all the trespassing they do, you’d think they’d be in better shape.


:lol::lol::lol:


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## Pinefarm2015 (Nov 29, 2015)

beetlebomb said:


> :lol::lol::lol:


Laugh if you want, but it’s true. Lol

Back in the days when guys would sneak over from the public land to hunt our blinds, not only could you follow their boot tracks down our 2 tracks back to the fence line, but they always left a mountain of cigarette butts in the blinds.

I’ve never caught a bear guy on my land that didn’t have a smoke going.


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## beetlebomb (Feb 5, 2014)

DirtySteve said:


> Haven't you ever seen a story on the news that started.....police are looking for information on this person? Then they show pictures or video of a suspect.


The only reason those videos work is if the police can intimidate the scumbag into a confession when they confront him. If the scumbag is smart enough to keep his mouth shut and tell the cops to talk to his lawyer there is no way that video can be even admitted in court as evidence. 
It's illegal to detain a trespasser so it would seem the only way is if you see them in a tree stand (and they don't see you) and you call the law who then catches them in the act...that would work.
I know first hand that the law will not even knock on a door and say a hunter found a huge pile of home remodeling trash (roof shingles, patio door, windows, toilet, bathroom sink, etc.) dumped on state land with mail in it and your address on it. The law said they would have to catch them in the act to do anything.


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## beetlebomb (Feb 5, 2014)

Pinefarm2015 said:


> Laugh if you want, but it’s true. Lol
> 
> Back in the days when guys would sneak over from the public land to hunt our blinds, not only could you follow their boot tracks down our 2 tracks back to the fence line, but they always left a mountain of cigarette butts in the blinds.
> 
> I’ve never caught a bear guy on my land that didn’t have a smoke going.



I’ve never smoked and my wife mentions now and then how grateful she is that I told her at 15 years old I don’t date girls that smoke because she was thinking about it.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

beetlebomb said:


> .........there is no way that video can be even admitted in court as evidence.
> ...........


I'm having a hard time believing that video or photos can not be used as evidence as long as the photo/video has a clear, no doubt view of their face. Also, trees/shrubs in the background would be needed to pinpoint location.
Your knowledge is only from what a friend told you many years ago ?

L & O


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## retired dundo (Jul 21, 2015)

beetlebomb said:


> I would never prosecute this type of scumbag. Too often they get a vendetta against you and make your life hell. In fact I don’t think you can prosecute them unless they’re dumb enough to confess. Unless the laws have changed….years ago I had a friend who set up cameras and the DNR told him they would not hold up as evidence n court.
> Seems to me the best plan is to approach these two and tell them they can hunt as long as they keep everyone else off. Might even be able to get them to do a little QDM work around there.


I can't believe what you wrote.I would never give into these scum bags and let them hunt my land.i am 72 past my fighting age but I would not give into them.I got plenty of friends with older boys that would love to help me if I need it


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## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

Pictures and videos are used everyday to prosecute otherwise every store and gas station on earth wouldn't use them...It's a very important tool in society today...Because a cam is hung on a tree makes zero difference...


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## Rowdy Bandit (Mar 22, 2016)

beetlebomb said:


> This is interesting....
> 
> https://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/hunting/2015/11/do’s-and-don’ts-dealing-trespassers
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if your friend heard about that (cam evidence and it's usefulness in court) from one CO, or whoever at the MDNR, but I know for me that wouldn't be the bottom line in a list of people to ask legal advice.


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## micooner (Dec 20, 2003)

beetlebomb said:


> The only reason those videos work is if the police can intimidate the scumbag into a confession when they confront him. If the scumbag is smart enough to keep his mouth shut and tell the cops to talk to his lawyer there is no way that video can be even admitted in court as evidence.
> It's illegal to detain a trespasser so it would seem the only way is if you see them in a tree stand (and they don't see you) and you call the law who then catches them in the act...that would work.
> I know first hand that the law will not even knock on a door and say a hunter found a huge pile of home remodeling trash (roof shingles, patio door, windows, toilet, bathroom sink, etc.) dumped on state land with mail in it and your address on it. The law said they would have to catch them in the act to do anything.


Come on bb many people have been ticketed for trash dumping with mail or prescription bottles as evidence.


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## beetlebomb (Feb 5, 2014)

micooner said:


> Come on bb many people have been ticketed for trash dumping with mail or prescription bottles as evidence.


I called the DNR, Standish police and State police because I just couldn't believe it and thought I was getting brushed off. I don't know what position the DNR guy held but he suggested that I haul the stuff home for my trash pickup!


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

beetlebomb said:


> I called the DNR, Standish police and State police because I just couldn't believe it and thought I was getting brushed off. I don't know what position the DNR guy held but he suggested that I haul the stuff home for my trash pickup!


There are a-holes in every field. That one DNR guy was lazy and didn't want to do his job.


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## Nitro225Optimax (Feb 13, 2011)

beetlebomb said:


> I called the DNR, Standish police and State police because I just couldn't believe it and thought I was getting brushed off. I don't know what position the DNR guy held but he suggested that I haul the stuff home for my trash pickup!



That’s odd because I called the DNR about illegal trash dumping on state land outside of Omer and they were on it like flies on dung. The CO called me to get more info, descriptions of who I thought did it, and he searched the trash and found credit card receipts. He ended up tracking them down state and fined them for littering after he made them drive up and pick it all up. 

The Standish police weren’t exactly the brightest bulbs in the pack. FYI, the department was disbanded last year and the Arenac County sheriff has jurisdiction now. Not much of an improvement from my interactions with them.


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## Wild Thing (Mar 19, 2010)

beetlebomb said:


> The only reason those videos work is if the police can intimidate the scumbag into a confession when they confront him. If the scumbag is smart enough to keep his mouth shut and tell the cops to talk to his lawyer there is no way that video can be even admitted in court as evidence.
> It's illegal to detain a trespasser so it would seem the only way is if you see them in a tree stand (and they don't see you) and you call the law who then catches them in the act...that would work.
> I know first hand that the law will not even knock on a door and say a hunter found a huge pile of home remodeling trash (roof shingles, patio door, windows, toilet, bathroom sink, etc.) dumped on state land with mail in it and your address on it. The law said they would have to catch them in the act to do anything.


Sorry BB but this statement isn't even close to being accurate. Video and still photos from surveillance (and, yes, even trail cameras) can and often are introduced into evidence in the same manner as any other type of evidence. 

It is true that law enforcement officers generally can not make an arrest for misdemeanors unless they are committed in his/her presence. However, under these circumstances the LEO will complete an investigation, submit his report to the prosecutor and the prosecutor will issue a warrant for arrest at which time the perpetrator will be arrested. Confessions, while nice, are not necessary to make an arrest or to successfully prosecute. That is where "physical" evidence comes into play - things like trail cam photos and perpetrators names and addresses found among trash dumping.


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## beetlebomb (Feb 5, 2014)

Nitro225Optimax said:


> That’s odd because I called the DNR about illegal trash dumping on state land outside of Omer and they were on it like flies on dung. The CO called me to get more info, descriptions of who I thought did it, and he searched the trash and found credit card receipts. He ended up tracking them down state and fined them for littering after he made them drive up and pick it all up.
> 
> The Standish police weren’t exactly the brightest bulbs in the pack. FYI, the department was disbanded last year and the Arenac County sheriff has jurisdiction now. Not much of an improvement from my interactions with them.


That’s nice to hear Nitro but I still doubt if anything has changed legally. You just happened to find two CO’s who cared enough to scare two scumbags who weren’t smart enough to know there was nothing the CO’s could do to them….legally.

When I called the DNR on that trash I was transferred to an office that I vaguely remember had the word “environment” in it. The 30 ish sounding guy that answered showed zero concern in his voice and brushed me off like I was some dumb teenager. I vaguely remember a standard line about funds, budget, etc. Then, when he tells me to pick it up with what sounded like a mocking smile on his face..Man! I was smoking when I hung up and that’s why I called the Standish and state police who never mentioned calling the DNR or gave any hint of concern either. They made it very clear there was no room for discussion.


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## beetlebomb (Feb 5, 2014)

wildthing said:


> Sorry BB but this statement isn't even close to being accurate. Video and still photos from surveillance (and, yes, even trail cameras) can and often are introduced into evidence in the same manner as any other type of evidence.
> 
> It is true that law enforcement officers generally can not make an arrest for misdemeanors unless they are committed in his/her presence. However, under these circumstances the LEO will complete an investigation, submit his report to the prosecutor and the prosecutor will issue a warrant for arrest at which time the perpetrator will be arrested. Confessions, while nice, are not necessary to make an arrest or to successfully prosecute. That is where "physical" evidence comes into play - things like trail cam photos and perpetrators names and addresses found among trash dumping.


No decent lawyer would ever let that stuff be brought into evidence, much less shown to a jury. More likely the scumbag could turn around and sue the state and the land owner, etc. for slander. It's all moot anyway because the state would never get into it that far for a misdemeanor like trespassing or trash dumping.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

No, these were cleaned carcasses. Hides, legs, and skeletons. These guys knew how to butcher.

If I was finding tagged deer that spoiled or just had a few bits cut out I'd be calling the DNR.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

beetlebomb said:


> No decent lawyer would ever let that stuff be brought into evidence, much less shown to a jury. More likely the scumbag could turn around and sue the state and the land owner, etc. for slander. It's all moot anyway because the state would never get into it that far for a misdemeanor like trespassing or trash dumping.


I have served on 3 jury's in my day. 2 of the 3 cases had dozens and dozens of pictures entered as evidence. One had video footage too.


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## beetlebomb (Feb 5, 2014)

DirtySteve said:


> I have served on 3 jury's in my day. 2 of the 3 cases had dozens and dozens of pictures entered as evidence. One had video footage too.


Thank you for posting that DirtySteve. Your post turned the light on! 

This thread started out about trespassing and the problems associated with prosecuting, and it got off-track.

While I’ve been maintaining you can’t use pictures in court to identify someone as being in a particular place I’m assuming others are thinking of pictures to identify things like property or physical damage….to support other evidence. 

And really, getting back to the original point of this thread I can’t imagine what kinds of evidence you could use to show a judge that would (legally) support any pictures or video you have. 

One thing I would bet money on is that no amount of pictures or video (by itself) would be enough to convince a judge.


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## Nitro225Optimax (Feb 13, 2011)

Sorry beetlebomb,

You are just flat out wrong about admissibility of video and photo evidence at trial. Just stop. You don’t know what you are talking about.

https://www.policeone.com/police-pr...n-the-use-of-digital-video-in-criminal-cases/


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


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## beetlebomb (Feb 5, 2014)

Nitro225Optimax said:


> Sorry beetlebomb,
> 
> You are just flat out wrong about admissibility of video and photo evidence at trial. Just stop. You don’t know what you are talking about.
> 
> ...


Nitro...Please read at least my last comment above your comment. We're talking about common trespassing and convincing a judge. Your link is just too abstract in this simple subject.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

beetlebomb said:


> Nitro...Please read at least my last comment above your comment. We're talking about common trespassing and convincing a judge. Your link is just too abstract in this simple subject.



Do you remember this story. It was talked about at length on this site. The landowner had video of the trespassing and altercation from a cell phone. He turned it over to police. Police asked for help on the news and got a dozen responses immediately. The man was charged with a felony for assault and recreational trespass. The guy did not admit guilt he lawyered up immediately and refused to talk to police.....

http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/index.ssf/2015/11/police_ask_publics_help_in_ide.html


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## beetlebomb (Feb 5, 2014)

DirtySteve said:


> Do you remember this story. It was talked about at length on this site. The landowner had video of the trespassing and altercation from a cell phone. He turned it over to police. Police asked for help on the news and got a dozen responses immediately. The man was charged with a felony for assault and recreational trespass. The guy did not admit guilt he lawyered up immediately and refused to talk to police.....
> 
> http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/index.ssf/2015/11/police_ask_publics_help_in_ide.html


Well that would be one way to get the guy into court...goad him into punching you.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

beetlebomb said:


> Well that would be one way to get the guy into court...goad him into punching you.


He bumped him with his quad and almost knocked him over. The landowner confronted him about trespassing on his land. He videotaped the entire ordeal with his phone. The only evidence was the video. He was ticketed for recreational trespass.


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## Yohann (Sep 15, 2009)

Wow! I just got caught up here, hadn't checked in for a while and it looks like I missed a lot! Haha!
Beetlebomb, do you have a red/gray beard and an orange headband??? Lol! Seems like a lot of effort to debunk the photo evidence!
As for the update, the last time I checked, the case was about to be presented to prosecutors. 
Some were asking if the trespassers were id'd and they indeed were. It wasn't difficult and the local sheriff knew the family well. 
We will see what happens but in the meantime I plan on some tornado effect impacting the entire north edge of my property and will be planting more well hidden cameras at any potential entry points for next fall.


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## beetlebomb (Feb 5, 2014)

Yohann said:


> Wow! I just got caught up here, hadn't checked in for a while and it looks like I missed a lot! Haha!
> Beetlebomb, do you have a red/gray beard and an orange headband??? Lol! Seems like a lot of effort to debunk the photo evidence!
> As for the update, the last time I checked, the case was about to be presented to prosecutors.
> Some were asking if the trespassers were id'd and they indeed were. It wasn't difficult and the local sheriff knew the family well.
> We will see what happens but in the meantime I plan on some tornado effect impacting the entire north edge of my property and will be planting more well hidden cameras at any potential entry points for next fall.


You people just don’t get it! Trespassing is a huge problem and how in the world can too much be said about it? 
Each comment, especially controversial comments bring up new information and maybe new ideas, and I’m being told to stop!? I don’t know why I waste my time on you people.


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## Yohann (Sep 15, 2009)

Here is your update guys.
So after 4 months, all evidence, police reports, photos etc was submitted by Saginaw county police to the prosecuter. They looked everything over, then heard the trespassers story which was, “I was tracking a deer.” And decided to drop the case. No fines, no penalties, just advised to stay out of my property. 
There you have it. 
As soon as I get a free weekend I will be hinge cutting the entire north border of my property. Not sure what else I can do.


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## Boatale (Mar 8, 2018)

Yohann said:


> Here is your update guys.
> So after 4 months, all evidence, police reports, photos etc was submitted by Saginaw county police to the prosecuter. They looked everything over, then heard the trespassers story which was, “I was tracking a deer.” And decided to drop the case. No fines, no penalties, just advised to stay out of my property.
> There you have it.
> As soon as I get a free weekend I will be hinge cutting the entire north border of my property. Not sure what else I can do.


I know it sucks. Somehow you have to get eyes on your property. Is there anyone one around you can trust to watch the property? Maybe allow a turkey hunter permission to hunt if they watch the property? I haven’t followed your post completely so I don’t know how much land you have but I was given permission to hunt a piece of land with instructions to stay in that specific area as long I watched the property. Confronted some hunters that didn’t know the lines and some did. Bottom line was that once they knew someone was watching it, problems went away. Did that for 15 years.


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## redfish1 (Dec 21, 2010)

Yohann said:


> Here is your update guys.
> So after 4 months, all evidence, police reports, photos etc was submitted by Saginaw county police to the prosecuter. They looked everything over, then heard the trespassers story which was, “I was tracking a deer.” And decided to drop the case. No fines, no penalties, just advised to stay out of my property.
> There you have it.
> As soon as I get a free weekend I will be hinge cutting the entire north border of my property. Not sure what else I can do.


i know how you feel !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## R.J.M. (Jun 10, 2007)

Who’s going turkey hunting / deer scouting 

So the entire County of Saginaw where keep out no trespassing signs are posted is now considered state land open to hunting and recreational usage . Anyone know of any other countries with spineless prosecutors . Need more choices !!! . On the bright side you weren’t held in contempt of court and for that your a good man my friend . 




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## Rowdy Bandit (Mar 22, 2016)

Sorry to hear, after all the alleged hassle they caused you. 

On the bright side, 1) sounds almost like a precedent... and it's all good if I need to track onto private property, and 2) it sprouted a fun thread for everyone else.


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## Rowdy Bandit (Mar 22, 2016)

BTW - prosecutor sounds like an idiot for buying their story... and / or spineless, as RJM wrote.

Based on all the replies here, you may be able to get a little bit of help from a few people here supporting whoever running against him or her next time, assuming it's an elected position.


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## George74 (Apr 1, 2014)

Yohann said:


> I would be very appreciative of any help offered.


Look like moonshiners. Oh wait this is 2018, possibly pot growers.


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## R.J.M. (Jun 10, 2007)

Was doing a google search for convictions in Michigan for recreational trespassing. It took a turn for me to a 2007 thread here on MS by the title of 
“Purple paint equals no trespassing “ from the 4 out of 7 pages I read the thread was a good read . It was interesting and sad that nothing has changed in regards to Michigan having the weakest laws and prosecutions on recreational trespassing in the country . My take was Same ol shi/ different year . What can we as sportsman - land owners do to get things changed . Petitions , calls to state reps who hunt , see if MUCC would be willing to take up this agenda /fight or DNR law division. 
Suggestions anyone ? 
Thanks 


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## R.J.M. (Jun 10, 2007)

R.J.M. said:


> Was doing a google search for convictions in Michigan for recreational trespassing. It took a turn for me to a 2007 thread here on MS by the title of
> “Purple paint equals no trespassing “ from the 4 out of 7 pages I read the thread was a good read . It was interesting and sad that nothing has changed in regards to Michigan having the weakest laws and prosecutions on recreational trespassing in the country . My take was Same ol shi/ different year . What can we as sportsman - land owners do to get things changed . Petitions , calls to state reps who hunt , see if MUCC would be willing to take up this agenda /fight or DNR law division.
> Suggestions anyone ?
> Thanks
> ...


Or start a new thread on this topic “recreational trespassing “ 


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

It is too bad that the paint law bill Susan Tabor sponsored did not became law. This was quite a few years ago if I remember right. I do not under stand why the color of purple being the choice other that it would require a special mix of that color. Instead of just grabbing some white paint to mark with on public land to make it look like private.

I hunted spring turkeys in VA a couple of times where they use white or silver paint to mark boundaries. I could see a boundary at over 100 years in the gloom of dawn on one public land I hunted. It was nice to drive down the road and see the paint on the trees than a mish mash of not trespassing signs.


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