# Loch Erin Lake



## JoeJoeFoster (Dec 12, 2013)

just ducky said:


> by "SC" are you talking South Carolina? Or St. Clair? or what? if you're talking South Carolina, the laws would be different. If you're talking St. Clair as in Lake St. Clair or the St. Clair River, then there are a whole different set of laws dealing with great lakes (i.e. federal regulations). The plot thickens....


By SC I meant South Carolina. Those shores are all owned by the Army Corp of engineering. You can hunt all the water ways down there just cant set up on shore. Must be floating in a boat. I just get overly confused with these laws.


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## JoeJoeFoster (Dec 12, 2013)

Hunter1979 said:


> This lake is just down the road, as are a few more like it. It is a private lake. All the property around the lake is privately owned, and it is a man made lake, so it started off as private land as well. In order to launch, you would need to have a boat registered to a landowner and a code for the gate. I don't know about this lake, but others like it sometimes will check for the sticker, if you don't have it, they'll call the cops and issue you a trespassing ticket. I'm fairly positive the sheriff's department's marine patrol is on that lake somewhat regularly. Even though it's private they are still allowed on to patrol.
> I would definitely make sure the HOA gives your buddy that permission in writing because I can all but guarantee he's going to get the cops or dnr called on him. I'd definitely make sure you don't violate the 150 yard rule. If no one has hunted it before, someone is going to think you're illegal. If your shooting geese, probably most lake people won't care, they hate them as they crap all over their yard and beach. Ducks, on the other hand, a lot of Lake people feed them and think of them like pets... I don't think they'll like you shooting them as much.
> 
> I think your biggest challenge on that lake is going to find a spot where you're not going to violate the 150 yard rule. It's a pretty narrow lake with a lot of little fingers, so getting to a spot where you have 150 yards in every direction might not be so easy...I could be wrong about how narrow it really is, but I'd definitely check it out. Also, there's only like 2 spots on that lake that don't have houses on them.
> Hopefully you get on and have a good hunt without any issues. I would think you could do pretty well on geese. Ducks will be hit or miss.


There aren't any gates you have to get through in regards to the launches that we would be using. I just find it funny that the HOA would give my brother permission to hunt the lake if its up to the landowners to decide that for their portion of the lake (pie shaped portion). It's all a little fishy right now if you ask me. I just need to find the right people to talk to in order to get a definitive answer. As of right now it looks like the HOA, property owners, local law enforcement and possibly the DNR are not on the same page from the surface. I'm sure once I dive deeper into it all it'll get cleared up. I just don't understand how the HOA would tell me one thing but many of you are pretty darn sure on here its up to the homeowners. It's this kind of disconnect that scares me about these rules and regs with waterfowl hunting. Definitely need to cross my T's and dot my I's on this one first.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

JoeJoeFoster said:


> There aren't any gates you have to get through in regards to the launches that we would be using. I just find it funny that the HOA would give my brother permission to hunt the lake if its up to the landowners to decide that for their portion of the lake (pie shaped portion). It's all a little fishy right now if you ask me. I just need to find the right people to talk to in order to get a definitive answer. As of right now it looks like the HOA, property owners, local law enforcement and possibly the DNR are not on the same page from the surface. I'm sure once I dive deeper into it all it'll get cleared up. I just don't understand how the HOA would tell me one thing but many of you are pretty darn sure on here its up to the homeowners. It's this kind of disconnect that scares me about these rules and regs with waterfowl hunting. Definitely need to cross my T's and dot my I's on this one first.


As someone said, get the HOA to put it in writing, which I'm betting they won't do.


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## Hunter1979 (Feb 26, 2008)

I just assumed it had a gate. I know lake LeAnne and Somerset do. They're also private and about 15 miles west.
I've never heard of anyone hunting one of these private lakes, just assumed the association always said no... Maybe that's not the case and it's just too much of a headache with what's legal.

Anyway, I wish you luck!


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## Shlwego (Sep 13, 2006)

JoeJoeFoster said:


> Growing up my grandpaerents had a lake house on Gun Lake. Pretty good waterfowl hunting from what I remember. Every year a group of guys would put out a permanent blind brushed up with the pine tree limbs and all. Now this blind was probably 300yds directly out infront of the grandparents house. I used to get up in the morning and borrow grandpas binos to watch. So from what I'm reading about the law... technically they were breaking it? If my grandparents owned the bottomlands out to the middle of the lake and they were in that so called "pie-shape" they are technically trespassing bc they didn't have permission to hunt on the grandparents bottomland?


You're 100% correct. If the blind was indeed set up in the "piece of the pie" in front of your grandparents house, then anyone hunting out of it should have had permission from your grandparents. If they didn't have permission, then they were trespassing. As others have said, however, the further out onto a lake you get, the harder it is to determine just where the imaginary lines for each piece of the pie actually run. 

On a really big lake, if you're out far enough, and you have permission from one of the landowners whose shoreline property you could conceivably be in front of, you should be okay.


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## rcleofly (Feb 18, 2012)

I live on a small private lake. I hunted it twice last year in my pc. of pie. 

My experience with people who live on private lakes and have an association is that they are all nuts. All they do is fight and gripe it sucks lol. I have the biggest pc. of property on the lake. I do the bare minimum with all the other land owners on the lake. I just stay away and mind my own lol. 

There is one guy who basically has decided over the years that he owns the lake and the rode we all live on. He is also the head of the association, go figure. The guy is a complete damn idiot. I don't pay any attention to any of HIS rules and guidelines. I just stay within the actual law. Regardless of how he feels about things, I've learned when it comes down to it, REAL law is what you need to follow. 

Im going to go with you need permission from the pc. of pie owners. I actually know this for a fact. 

If your not careful you'll get caught up in Bill's and Tom's BS who has a nicer lawn problems lmao.


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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

Again is all that really worth it? I would check google maps for a pond or marsh and get permission instead.
What a zoo.
I know of a gravel pit that used to be near there. Perhaps that would be more promising?


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

rcleofly said:


> ...My experience with people who live on private lakes and have an association is that they are all nuts. All they do is fight and gripe it sucks lol....


Well let me just say this...I don't live on such a private lake, or belong to such an association. However, I know people who do. Playing the devil's advocate here, they typically pay a whole lot of money for things like weed control, maintaining roads, bridges, beaches, boat ramps, etc., and often pay for a county deputy to patrol the lake. Can they be a pia? Sure. But from their perspective, I would be pissed if someone came in and abused my rights as a property owner. Afterall, they pay a whole lot of money to have those exclusive rights.


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## JoeJoeFoster (Dec 12, 2013)

just ducky said:


> Well let me just say this...I don't live on such a private lake, or belong to such an association. However, I know people who do. Playing the devil's advocate here, they typically pay a whole lot of money for things like weed control, maintaining roads, bridges, beaches, boat ramps, etc., and often pay for a county deputy to patrol the lake. Can they be a pia? Sure. But from their perspective, I would be pissed if someone came in and abused my rights as a property owner. Afterall, they pay a whole lot of money to have those exclusive rights.


Agree with this whole heartedly, and this is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. I know my brother pays dues to be part of the association, but doesn't have property on the lake. I completely understand why people would be protective in this context. I left a message with the HOA and the local DNR just to see whats going on so hopefully I hear back today or tomorrow. Judging by the lack of definite answers in this thread it sounds like this lake will definitely be more of a headache to hunt this year. Was more just an ease of access and everything. Now I'm just on a mission to know what is or is not allowed on the lake. haha


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## JoeJoeFoster (Dec 12, 2013)

Jerry Lamb said:


> Again is all that really worth it? I would check google maps for a pond or marsh and get permission instead.
> What a zoo.
> I know of a gravel pit that used to be near there. Perhaps that would be more promising?


I concur. I checked out Onstead SGA while I was down there and it looked promising. Only problem was the amount of traffic/commotion through the area. I didn't care for that. That's what prompted me to look into Loch Erin Lake. Sounds like it'll be more of a headache to hunt than a joy.


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## JoeJoeFoster (Dec 12, 2013)

Hunter1979 said:


> I just assumed it had a gate. I know lake LeAnne and Somerset do. They're also private and about 15 miles west.
> I've never heard of anyone hunting one of these private lakes, just assumed the association always said no... Maybe that's not the case and it's just too much of a headache with what's legal.
> 
> Anyway, I wish you luck!


I know parts of the lake has gated communities. I assume those are a different HOA on the other end of the lake. The ramps we would use are just owned by the HOA. Basically an empty lot in between two lots with a nice sign that says "Boat Launch for the Association" or something. Hopefully the HOA and the DNR give me comparable answers lol


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## rcleofly (Feb 18, 2012)

just ducky said:


> Well let me just say this...I don't live on such a private lake, or belong to such an association. However, I know people who do. Playing the devil's advocate here, they typically pay a whole lot of money for things like weed control, maintaining roads, bridges, beaches, boat ramps, etc., and often pay for a county deputy to patrol the lake. Can they be a pia? Sure. But from their perspective, I would be pissed if someone came in and abused my rights as a property owner. Afterall, they pay a whole lot of money to have those exclusive rights.


Keep in mind I'm one of the people who pay the fee. That lives on the lake and is part of the association. I also pay the largest road fee cause we pay by distance and I'm the house on the end. Witch is garbage. I also pay the biggest association fee cause I have the most amount of lake frontage, witch is also garbage. I'm just the newest person to live on the lake. The company who we pay to take care of the road is also owned by the head of the lake association. He was a bit to busy last year to actually take care of the snow removal past his house so I and only I payed for another company to do the rest. Even though I pay the most to his company for road maintenance and snow removal. So let me be bitter before you put me in check LOL.


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## rcleofly (Feb 18, 2012)

Now you got me going. This is the same ****tard that told me I can't hunt on my pc. of pie. But, he came creeping through my back yard in spring shooting geese and goslings with a 22 cause they were crapping on his dock. 

But, to get to my point on hunting private lakes. I proved him wrong on that I'm not able to hunt my pc. of pie when he called the sheriff. You need the owner of the pc. of pie you attend on hunting to grant permission to hunt that particular spot. You'll need permission from a member of the lake association to access the lake. I'll also add, IMO it's more then likely not worth the drama that comes with dealing with them.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

rcleofly said:


> Keep in mind I'm one of the people who pay the fee. That lives on the lake and is part of the association. I also pay the largest road fee cause we pay by distance and I'm the house on the end. Witch is garbage. I also pay the biggest association fee cause I have the most amount of lake frontage, witch is also garbage. I'm just the newest person to live on the lake. The company who we pay to take care of the road is also owned by the head of the lake association. He was a bit to busy last year to actually take care of the snow removal past his house so I and only I payed for another company to do the rest. Even though I pay the most to his company for road maintenance and snow removal. So let me be bitter before you put me in check LOL.


The people I know who are in similar associations have very similar complaints about snow plowing, potholes in the road, etc. etc. If you pay for such service, which you do, then you have every right to complain when you don't get it. But to complain about having to pay your fees, or what you feel are more than your fair share because of the size of your property, or in the case of my friends...by lake frontage, is bs to me...sorry. Why do I feel that way? Let me tell you. I happen to own acreage (not lake frontage), and through my acreage runs a creek, which is actually a legally designated county drain. I knew it was a designated county drain when I bought the property. Twice in the 26 years I've owned the property, we property owners have been assessed a drain maintenance fee, basically for cleaning the brush out and spraying, and some dredging. Our assessment is based on the amount of frontage on the creek, of which I own more than most. So in turn I end up paying more. Fair? Well, I may not think so, just like you don't. But I knew the rules when I bought the property...I went in with my eyes open. I made a conscious decision to buy the property, and I have no right to complain now. Neither do you IMO.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

And I'll say this about


rcleofly said:


> Now you got me going. This is the same ****tard that told me I can't hunt on my pc. of pie. But, he came creeping through my back yard in spring shooting geese and goslings with a 22 cause they were crapping on his dock.
> 
> But, to get to my point on hunting private lakes. I proved him wrong on that I'm not able to hunt my pc. of pie when he called the sheriff. You need the owner of the pc. of pie you attend on hunting to grant permission to hunt that particular spot. You'll need permission from a member of the lake association to access the lake. I'll also add, IMO it's more then likely not worth the drama that comes with dealing with them.


And I'll say this about association leadership...as a dues paying member, you have a vote in who gets elected to such positions. Vote the dude out if he's an idiot. Or better yet, run against him and beat him out!

SORRY guys for the major hijack....I'll stop now


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## rcleofly (Feb 18, 2012)

The man who owned my place prior to me was the head of the association. From what I understand no one else wanted the role. The reason the higher fee bugs me is because everyone else pays the same amount regardless of lake frontage. 

We so did hijack this thread.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

rcleofly said:


> The man who owned my place prior to me was the head of the association. From what I understand no one else wanted the role. The reason the higher fee bugs me is because everyone else pays the same amount regardless of lake frontage.
> 
> We so did hijack this thread.


I don't blame you for being pissed. I would be too. My dear old dad had a saying..."life isn't fair, and whoever told you it was, lied!" LOL

And yeah, we hijacked the hell outta this one


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

On the op subject one other thing that can happen with these type of lakes......when the land was developed the hunting rights can be retained by the homeowners assoc. So even though you own the piece of pie for things like trespassing or swimming etc..... you might not own the piece of pie for hunting. This is rare but there are places where this has happened for sure. Lake saint helen and the st helen duck hunting club comes to mind ( there are plenty of threads on this site about that one).

If the hoc retained hunting rights they could certainly give permission. The downsides of these types of scenarios is the Leo's won't know the by laws of the hoc and tickets end up being sorted out in court......


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## JoeJoeFoster (Dec 12, 2013)

Well I got an email back from a lady within the property owners association. All she said was "hunting is allowed you just have to be 450' from any dwelling, and you can't hunt from any of the several islands in the lake."

Apparently there must be some easement around the lake or the HOA owns the lake because I do not have to have permission from said individual property owners. I do have to hunt from a boat though so shore hunting is out of the question. My brother has to be with me as I'm a guest and my boat has to be registered with the HOA. Not too shabby if you ask me.

Looks like there will be lots of dead geese come Labor Day weekend on Loch Erin Lake.

Thanks everybody for chiming in. Gave me lots to think about in regards to the future hunting of MI's inland lakes. Best of luck with the early seasons!!


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## Joe Richard (Jun 6, 2017)

JoeJoeFoster said:


> Got into a little debate with my brother last night and Google couldn't settle it for us...
> 
> My brother just moved to the Onsted area and has a house in the Loch Erin Lake development. He's not on the lake but part of the lake's HOA. He kept saying its a PRIVATE lake. I've never heard of such a thing. He got the ok from the HOA to duck hunt on the lake, but I was just curious if anybody has any incite on this topic? I've searched the internet and read up on riparian rights, but nothing really makes sense to me. Is there such thing as a private lake in MI?


I know this is an older post, but I just recently heard about it.

I live in the Loch Erin community. Loch Erin is a manmade private lake managed by the HOA. It has no public access.

Homeowners on the lakeshore do not own any part of the lake bottom. And I believe there are more property owners in the community off the lake than on.

A guest of an association member (in good standing) can purchase a day pass to have a boat on the lake for the day, as long as the association member is present at all times.

Hope this helps.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Joe Richard said:


> I know this is an older post, but I just recently heard about it.
> 
> I live in the Loch Erin community. Loch Erin is a manmade private lake managed by the HOA. It has no public access.
> 
> ...


yeah it really depends upon how the properties were platted. Some private developments/man made lakes have the ownership only to the waters edge, and the lake itself is owned by a separate group


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## UplandnWaterfowl (Jan 3, 2010)

Per my post on the first page, this is a private lake and the property owners only own to the shoreline. It was man made so that property line could be made and then the lake made, you won't find this property boundary on natural lakes.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

UplandnWaterfowl said:


> ....you won't find this property boundary on natural lakes.


I respectfully disagree. I can give you at least one factual example of a natural lake in Oakland County where part of the lake has lot ownership that stops at the lakeshore, while some of the lake has platted subdivisions that have lot ownership going out into the lake. Again, it depends on how the property was legally described when the lots were created. If you want details on this lake, I can send you info by PM...just looked at the county assessing website yesterday for other reasons.


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## JoeJoeFoster (Dec 12, 2013)

Joe Richard said:


> I know this is an older post, but I just recently heard about it.
> 
> I live in the Loch Erin community. Loch Erin is a manmade private lake managed by the HOA. It has no public access.
> 
> ...


so, correct me if I'm wrong, I would need a day permit to bring MY boat down and put it in on the lake if my brother is part of the Loch Erin community?

certainly didn't do this last year the couple times we hunted. He was sent a newsletter last summer/fall that explained everything you could do on the lake. Didn't read anything about a day permit for guests. I will need to look into that.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

JoeJoeFoster said:


> so, correct me if I'm wrong, I would need a day permit to bring MY boat down and put it in on the lake if my brother is part of the Loch Erin community?
> 
> certainly didn't do this last year the couple times we hunted. He was sent a newsletter last summer/fall that explained everything you could do on the lake. Didn't read anything about a day permit for guests. I will need to look into that.


Speaking from experience on another Michigan lake with an association, the association's "rules" are only as good as those who enforce them. Typically there is a board, and different duties are assigned by appointment of a person. These kinds of restrictions have no basis in law unless the association takes legal action (the local law enforcement agencies cannot enforce them), and they rarely will...just too cumbersome, costly and time-consuming for them to do. So in reality, most of these restrictions go by the "honor system" only. The particular lake that I'm talking about has many similar rules, which go unenforced. For example, this lake is only supposed to permit only one dock per property, when in reality most have 2. And supposedly "guest" boats are allowed by permit, and then only for two week periods. Again...a joke. Most properties have 2, 3 or 4 boats docked all summer. No one enforces things, so the lake is absolutely overrun with boats. Complaints mainly go ignored. So if you want to go by the book, get the necessary approvals. But is it necessary? You be the judge.


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