# 3/4 oz 20 Gauge Loads REVIEW!



## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

I just wanted to share a review of a shell I gave serious work out last night on our Sporting Clay's course.

Fiocchi makes a 3/4oz 20 gauge load called a Trainer Light - it is 1050 FPS and the shells I purchased were 7 1/2 shot size.

This spring I picked up four boxes for dog training and the fact that Kari showed some interest in learning to break a few targets.

It is hard to get a feel for a shell while shooting at 15 yard training birds - they killed them just fine and the birds were not shot up all to hell.

Last night I only had 50 1oz loads of number 8's for sporting clay's - On our course you need about 60 - so I tossed in 15 3/4oz Lite's as my extra's and decided I would try them on the 20-25 yard targets - well boy was I impressed....They seem to pattern really nice, and you barely feel the recoil....I ened up using them as my first shell on the closest target most of the course - they broke targets really well, and I set a new personal best with a 20 gauge for me. My longest shot was probaly 30 yards.

I am thinking that this will be an excellent woodcock load....A really nice soft shooting load that will kill birds with in 25 yards, but keep them in good shape. not shot up....I felt like I might have gotten a little more uniform pattern via the slower speeds....1050 is slow....My leads were no different though, and at those distances speed should matter little.

Just thought I would pass this info along....


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## GVSUKUSH (Mar 9, 2004)

I know they're pricy, but have you tried the Remington STS Premier Light Handicap rounds Fred? I thought they shot nice and I had my best round with 'em.


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## Lucky Dog (Jul 4, 2004)

I've always felt that light loads were better for upland hunting. I shoot 3/4 in my 20's, 7/8 in my 16's and either 7/8 or 1 oz in my 12's. Never tried the slow velocity shells, might be worth buying a case to try. I tried shooting Fiocchi's a couple of years back, and never felt like they worked very well for me on upland birds. had a lot of crippled birds and misses. I shoot those ugly black cheap remington game loads. I have had good success with them and everyone sells them.


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

Kush I assume you are talking 12 gauge, the answer would be no, I buy what is cheap and on sale for 12 gauge - 



Lucky Dog,

I have almost switch to Fiocchi for all my hunting loads, my guns seem to like them and after being a federal fan for years, and winchest also. I am switching to Fiocchi's I generally shoot pretty heavy loads for Grouse sized birds and bigger....JUST what works for me...

This season I am going to shoot some Fiocchi spreaders in 12 gauge, backed by 1 1/8oz of 7 1/2's in my top barrel of F-Game Loads in super speed (worked great for me last year and patterned best in my pattern tests).

In 20 Gauge I have some 1oz of 8's at 1275 FPS in the same F-Super Speed game loads.

For pheasants out west I am switching to the F-GPX loads in 1 3/8 oz of #5's at 1480 FPS - these anchored birds last year better than the Federal Pheasants forever load....

Dont get me wrong though, this is all as mental as it is science as in, if you feel confident with your loads you will kill more birds. My confidence went way up last night with those light 20 gauge loads....


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## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

Fred,


Where can I get some? I'm still looking for a "pet" load for my LC Smith 20gauge that doesn't have an insane pressure.


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

Scott,


Field Sport has them, I think they have a flat of them? You want me to get a box and mail them to you? I think I could disguise it and send it DHL and no one would know unless they read this?


Also Vizula Hunt Dog purchased a flat of these when he was up a couple weeks ago, so maybe trade him a box...He hunts behind V's so there is no way he is going to shoot up 500 rounds this fall?:lol: 

Fritz


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## Vizsla Hunt Dog (Jan 8, 2003)

Yes, I do have a flat and would be willing to part with one. I tried a box out late last year and was able to knock down both woodies and grouse inside 25 yards. They worked like a charm on preserve quail and chukar.

Let me know when you want to get together Scott. BTW, I've got 8 chukar for Saturday morning. The boys and I will be getting one more training day in before we hit the wild.

Later.


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

Jeff,


Off topic, but is Shady Grady 100% again? Great news if he is!

Fritz


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## Vizsla Hunt Dog (Jan 8, 2003)

From what I can tell, the G-Bucket is close to 100%. He shows no hesitation when I am roading him or when we are training in the field. He appears to have lost an edge speed wise as Bogie is now running circles around him. No big deal, I think we will be OK.


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## Lucky Dog (Jul 4, 2004)

Steelheadfred said:


> Dont get me wrong though, this is all as mental as it is science as in, if you feel confident with your loads you will kill more birds. My confidence went way up last night with those light 20 gauge loads....


I agree 100% with that. That was my deal with the Fiocchi's, in my head I wasn't confident in them. I shot 2 cases of them one fall on birds though, so I did give them a chance.

I think when you get into the woods, it is what is in your "head" that causes most misses. I have a buddy in Florida that is a pretty good Sporting clays shooter and can run 25 on skeet quite often, but put a covey of quail or a passing dove in his face and he will miss 95% of the time. It is almost funny to watch. A straight away target on the trap range at 20 yards and it will be dust. A straight away quail at 20 yards and he might as well toss 2 shells in the dirt. It is all in his head, and he knows it which makes it even worse....


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## SteelSearchin (Apr 8, 2004)

Fritz, I know your super conservative around your dog, but be extra careful with those spreader loads... do some paper work with them

Coming from somebody that took a ricocheted #8 in the eyeball (no permanent damage), getting shot sucks. Mr. Cook had a piece of metal come off a grinding wheel while he was working on something in their barn 2-3 years ago. He was wearing safety glasses at the time, and didn't realize anything was wrong for a couple days. Long story short he was outta commission for a couple weeks and missed out on some prime honker killing...


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

SteelSearchin said:


> Fritz, I know your super conservative around your dog, but be extra careful with those spreader loads... do some paper work with them
> 
> Coming from somebody that took a ricocheted #8 in the eyeball (no permanent damage), getting shot sucks. Mr. Cook had a piece of metal come off a grinding wheel while he was working on something in their barn 2-3 years ago. He was wearing safety glasses at the time, and didn't realize anything was wrong for a couple days. Long story short he was outta commission for a couple weeks and missed out on some prime honker killing...


Tom already tested them, these are not the spreader loads with odd shaped, square, football, shot, they have a post in the middle of the shot charges, the pattern is only 20% bigger out of a cyl choke at 22 yards. But still I need all the help I can get, after all I hunt behind lowely flushers. The shot is round!


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## Rudi's Dad (May 4, 2004)

> A straight away target on the trap range at 20 yards and it will be dust. A straight away quail at 20 yards and he might as well toss 2 shells in the dirt. It is all in his head, and he knows it which makes it even worse


That reminds me of something, when I quit getting all excited about birds its time to take up ping pong......


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## bedlyblaster (Jan 1, 2003)

I have killed hundreds of grouse with remington game loads 12 ga, 2 3/4", 1 oz, #8 shot, 1290 fps, black hull, $3.99/box at meiers. cylinder first shot/ improved cylinder second shot. If you can hit em they'l knock em down for your little grouse getter to fetch up. just bought 8 boxes for this season, shot almost 6 boxes last year. think i will need a couple more this year.
larry


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

not surprising, there is a law of diminishing returns in regards to shotgun ballistics. higher velocitys shed their velocity faster than low velocitys. the published data is all for muzzle velocitys. at 25 yards a 1350 fps load and 1050 fps load will be surprisingly close together in velocity.

high velocity does not equal increased penetration. compare some high velocity rifle loads with low or medium with similar projectiles and compare penetration. 

the best way to increase penetration is to change to type of shot- from low antimony to high or to copper or even nickel. this is why high brass premium loads have greater penetration- they have harder or copper shot.

but shotgun loads are interesting, you can "improve" on area and lose in another. larger shot gives a bit more penetration but a less dense pattern. so forth. the art is to achieve a balance where you are getting optimum from all components including the choke.

a load like you mentioned- 3/4 oz low velocity has a number of good applications. you are apparently a fly fisherman, you know you dont need the heaviest rod and line to catch fish and that everything should be in balance. 



ur


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

dogwhistle said:


> not surprising, there is a law of diminishing returns in regards to shotgun ballistics. higher velocitys shed their velocity faster than low velocitys. the published data is all for muzzle velocitys. at 25 yards a 1350 fps load and 1050 fps load will be surprisingly close together in velocity.
> 
> high velocity does not equal increased penetration. compare some high velocity rifle loads with low or medium with similar projectiles and compare penetration.
> 
> ...


 
DW,

You are correct I have read all the study's and such about speed and what not, I agree faster out fast slowing down, but at the same time a little speed gives me a little more pattern, some times more pattern is good sometimes it is not. I still feel you need to spend some time figuring out what you have confidence in and at the same time what patterns best for your gun in what choke tube or barrel. My Beretta Auto Loader did not like some pheasant loads on paper my patterns were just terrible, I got an extra extended choke tube ( 2inches) and that solved the problem, tightened up my pattern and much more uniform. I think chokes and pattern density is far more important in pheasant hunting with shots beyond 30 yards along water fowl, than in Dove, Quail, WC, Grouse Hunting.

I find these kind of discussions facinating, they bring out the best in the board, and you seem to have a great deal of knowledge on the subject. I enjoy your posts.


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

Fritz, thanks for the compliment although i'm not sure it's deserved. firearms has always been an avocation and to some degree a vocation.

i'll bore you with a story. when i was about 12 i just had to have a double as my buddy had one. went to the local hardware- guns were sold there. In fact in belonged to Bob Munger who provided the firearms backup for Fred Bear.

anyway i bought a Savage model B- enough iron in that gun to cast a good sized anvil. but i bought it and the tradition at the time was to "throw in" a box of shells. my granddad raised some top notch setters and i was fixin to go pheasant hunting. i must not have looked real pleased when Mr Munger laid a box of low brass Westerns next to that Savage. said "those are all the shells you need". he was right then and he is still right.

you are correct you can do a lot with patterns by changing components. i've come to standarize on one load for grouse and woodcock as it makes reloading a lot easier. i use some factory stuff, mainly for the hulls which is why i use high grade low brass target hulls. easier to reload and hold up a lot longer. and you dont have to worry about blown base wads which can really screw up a reload.

but all in all with a reasonable load for the game, if a person is missing or wounding a lot of birds its probably not the ammo, it's most likely the nut holding on the gun has come loose.

did i read that you have a Rizzinni? if so, those are one of the nicer o/u's made. but they are nice light little guns, you could go out and shoot some heavy loads in it now and then with no harm. but i would slam it around with them on a regular basis. and that goes double for those spanish doubles. beautiful little guns. i have a AyA, a friend has a Uggie 16 sidelock. but if i hunted a lot of pheasants(hard to do around here) and used my hunting loads on a lot of targets i would have another stouter gun for that.


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

DW,

I am curious as to why you would not want to run a lot of heavier pheasant type loads through a Rizzini? I own two - my main pheasant gun though is a Berretta Auto, but I do like to carry the Rizzini out west at just shy of 7lbs it is a little nicer and better handling than the auto loader for all day hunting.

The reason I ask is the guts of my rizzini is the same guts that are on all of it's target guns, I shoot about 800 rounds a season max out of the TR20 12 Gauge Rizzini with 28 inch barrels, single selective Trigger, Prince of whales or semi piston grip, pachmeyer sporting clays pad. This includes targets and game. Any concerns and if so why?

Of that 700 or so rounds, about 50 maybe max would be pheasant type loads. I realize I take about 250 rounds out west with me but that is a little excessive for a 12 bird limit on a trip. 


I have a matched pair of 12 and 20 gauge Rizzini's - I shoot my Beretta AL390 Auto for 60% of my sporting clays and only average 150 rounds a week for about 10-12 weeks.


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

rizzini's are nice light well made guns. if you shoot a lot of heavy loads through them, they will shoot loose. maybe come off face or hinge pins loosen up. simple physics.

how many is "a lot". a lot of target practice would be a lot. i doubt that a few days of pheasant hunting would do them any harm. but enough heavy loads over time, would do it. 

i have an AyA, spanish guns are nice guns but they arent as a rule made for the big heavy loads. i always use light loads in it- fairly low velocity- 1 1/8 max.

as i said, Rizzinni's are one of the better o/u's made today. but you wont see many on the sporting clays ranges. just not what they are made for. a few heavy rounds once a year shouldnt hurt them at all though. besides standing out on the target range shooting heavy loads through a beautiful light o/u isnt my idea of a pleasant experience. carrying one in the field certainly is.


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

dogwhistle said:


> rizzini's are nice light well made guns. if you shoot a lot of heavy loads through them, they will shoot loose. maybe come off face or hinge pins loosen up. simple physics.
> 
> how many is "a lot". a lot of target practice would be a lot. i doubt that a few days of pheasant hunting would do them any harm. but enough heavy loads over time, would do it.
> 
> ...


DW,

Have you, or did you read Bruce Buck's Rizzini article in Shooting sportsman this year? I posted this question on the Shooting sportsman website, also it could be the area I live but Rizzini's are the number one Target Sporting Clay's gun at our club and down in Manton.... See this thread...

http://bbs.shootingsportsman.com/viewtopic.php?t=23657

I guess I am not to worried about a 1k rounds a year...in my 12 gauge.

Fritz


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

do as you want. it's not my gun. i would choose something more suitable for a target gun.


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