# Area turkeys disappearing



## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

In my normal hunting grounds the population is way down. It is a mix of fruit farms, ag. fields with the majority being woodlands. There are plenty of fallow fields to produce the insects the poults need to prosper

With the amount of snow and the below zero temps this winter I am figuring on another drop in numbers. Two feet of snow on the ground and those temps are not conductive for turkeys surviving the winter.

Yet the DNR will have another fall season. 

jem44357 I never knew that the DNR supplemental fed turkeys. The MWTHA has for years in the northern lower. We have never been able to figure out where the turkeys where I hunt are wintering over to feed them.

It also took years for the DNR to admit it was predation that made the Sichuan pheasant program a failure, not the lack of habitat. When they tried to get the program going there were a lot of fallow fields around Holland where they planted them to have nesting and feeding habitat.

DEDGOOSE You are right about the earlier first cutting of hay. I have an EX farmer friend that was crying after first cutting one year because the first cutting came before fawn drop so they never ran a fawn through the haybine. He has never said anything about turkeys but he would be jumping with joy if all critters were gone off this earth so they would not cut into his profits.

I think the first transplants that survived came form PA. The first one were pen raised adults. They did not do very good. At one time the DNR had an almost wide open fall season in the Allegan State Game area to eliminate that stock. 

Years later there was a national turkey meeting held in Lansing. The biologists coming nn from the western states asked how many turkeys we had in the SLP. When told that we had not put any down there they were shocked as they had plenty in a lot more marginal habitat than what they saw in the SLP from the air when flying into Lansing.

There was a swap arraigned with Iowa to get some Iowa turkeys. I think that is when turkeys started to really get going in Michigan.


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## DEDGOOSE (Jan 19, 2007)

multibeard said:


> DEDGOOSE You are right about the earlier first cutting of hay. I have an EX farmer friend that was crying after first cutting one year because the first cutting came before fawn drop so they never ran a fawn through the haybine. He has never said anything about turkeys but he would be jumping with joy if all critters were gone off this earth so they would not cut into his profits.


One farmer I trust has told me some numbers on hens and it is pretty staggering. A few years back a fella showed up on one of the boards and I forget what his intentions was but had a device he was using that flushed the hens off the nest.. The nest would obviously fall prey in harvested alfalfa but at least the hen would be given a chance to re nest. 



multibeard said:


> I think the first transplants that survived came form PA. The first one were pen raised adults. They did not do very good. At one time the DNR had an almost wide open fall season in the Allegan State Game area to eliminate that stock.
> 
> 
> There was a swap arraigned with Iowa to get some Iowa turkeys. I think that is when turkeys started to really get going in Michigan.


The Alleghamy(sp) birds yeah looking at that, it was doomed from the start.. 

One thing that interests me that may or may not be directly part of this discussion is the "old strain" of turkeys.. 

I have alot of "turkey friends" from the deep south, FL, AL, MS that talk about the "old strain" of the wild turkeys. Remnants of the original population that are small and do not gobble much. I have one such friend from MS who killed a bird a few years back with a tiny head, weighed 11-12lbs and had 1.5 inch spurs.. 

If you listen to old timers from the south or read old literature about the wild turkey many refer to these birds as "Moss heads" or "Mossy Heads". Some believe its fable and some believe its fact.. 

Alot of them sometime make fun of our birds from the upper midwest tipping the scales at 25+lbs sometimes. They joke about us hunting domesticated turkeys and such.. 

Which leads me sometimes to wonder, what exactly are our birds.. If the true wild turkey as evidenced by some that are shot in the south that weigh in at extremely low weights.. Where did our birds come from, is it simply diet and Bergmann's rule or are we hunting something completely different outside of the deep south.. Are 25+ lb turkeys actually descendants of the original strain of wild turkeys or something else? Could our population swings be a result of the origin of our wild turkeys?

I get invited to hunt MS each year for the opener and the way my schedule is shaping up for spring I am stupid for not being there right now.. I would love nothing other than to kill a mature gobbler with good spurs in the deep south and have him tip the scales at a measly 12-13 lbs, would mean more to mean than grandslams, royal slams and world slams.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Nothing but squirrels sighted around the house now.One rabbit leaving tracks every other day or so depending on weather.
Nighttime predators exist. Listen to coyotes most nights.
Turkeys roosted on our drive for years. A daily almost, parade past the house of two hens and their young each spring on bug hunts. Gone now.
Bobcat exist, the odd possum and ***** of course too though skunks are more common and visit more often. A **** siting or track has been a while.
The fox vixen with annual litter in field was road hit and den goes unused since. 
Yotes going to hold fox down but likely will fill in on consuming edibles available just fine.
There is a flock of turkeys within a couple miles that is holding out in a creek bottom with ag fields across the road.
Our local flock was unhunted. When they disappeared no bodies were found so they may have simply walked away, but why, when little changed but coyotes increasing?
Last count was thirteen, then they evaporated over the course of a late summer early fall; unless they were the foundation stock for the flock miles away.


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## DEDGOOSE (Jan 19, 2007)

Waif said:


> Nothing but squirrels sighted around the house now.One rabbit leaving tracks every other day or so depending on weather.
> Nighttime predators exist. Listen to coyotes most nights.
> Turkeys roosted on our drive for years. A daily almost, parade past the house of two hens and their young each spring on bug hunts. Gone now.
> Bobcat exist, the odd possum and ***** of course too though skunks are more common and visit more often. A **** siting or track has been a while.
> ...


A situation such as yours concerning one flock of birds possesses so many variables that you can not even begin to ponder not knowing if said birds are dead or if certain habitat influences we see or not see has caused them to move on.. 

I stated earlier I think the Coyotes influence on turkeys is overstated, if you ever watch coyotes and turkeys interact you will see what I mean.. They get some but they are not detrimental to turkeys on a large scale.. 

Now Bobcats, if anyone ever wants to learn how to kill turkeys, spend every chance you get watching bobcats in the wild.. It will teach you more than anything you can read or watch..


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

multibeard said:


> In my normal hunting grounds the population is way down. It is a mix of fruit farms, ag. fields with the majority being woodlands. There are plenty of fallow fields to produce the insects the poults need to prosper
> 
> With the amount of snow and the below zero temps this winter I am figuring on another drop in numbers. Two feet of snow on the ground and those temps are not conductive for turkeys surviving the winter.
> 
> ...


Mine was one of the areas that Sichuan pheasants were released they seemed to good a couple of years but went to predation along with our resident pheasant and grouse .Habitat loss although exist is not why everything is gone now experts say even our common box turtles will be on the endangered list soon .We have drastic declines in some snakes and most ground nesting birds .Habitat loss is what they say when they don't know what else to do our dnr needs to wake up .I hope the turkeys that remain in my area don't go the way of the pheasants and grouse .


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## jem44357 (Jan 27, 2011)

multibeard,

"jem44357 I never knew that the DNR supplemental fed turkeys. The MWTHA has for years in the northern lower. We have never been able to figure out where the turkeys where I hunt are wintering over to feed them."

I just assumed it was the DNR because the piles of corn we used to see in our area were always near the DNR properties/buildings. I just thought they did it so there would always be somebody milling around to keep the pouchers on alert.

Jim


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## doughman (Dec 7, 2005)

For all the years I've hunted i learned from experienced hunters u need to have multiple places to hunt. For years we had a large amount of birds at my dads property then they r gone only to be back a year or two later. My opinion is local predator moves in on the flock and they disappear. As I scout I find many large flocks from place to place. As far as farm birds I am fortunate my aunt has a 599 acre farm in Ottawa county. I have the farm to myself so no pressure and I only hunt it a couple times each year. Last fall during deer hunting there times there were 100 birds in the field but after 3 days of deer hunting I wasn't seeing them birds today are very educated


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

Just what i have experienced in the last year. last winter I had a large flock winter in my yard. I fed them all winter, spring came and they left. Never saw them again. I had clover and buckwheat planted all summer. This winter I had food out but never had a bird come to the feed. I know where several flocks are close by but not a one in my immediate vicinity. Why they left and haven't returned? I haven't a clue. But I do know they are wintering near by(within a mile).


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## bornforsurvival (Jul 30, 2013)

I have to say that driving to my various deer hunting places in Ottawa county this fall, I saw more turkeys than I've ever seen. I even once had to stop and let a large group of hens mosy off of the road.


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