# baiting again???



## deerhunter1989

Can the mdnre get any more ignorant??? Cant you see that there are starting to be bigger bucks taken all over the state since baiting was banned! Why bring it back?? Just because a few city slickers cant shoot a deer every time the go to the woods?? Really the only thing you kill on a bait pile anyways are button bucks and doe fawns. So are you really helping out the deer herd? :rant:


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## Rasputin

I'm not sure that rant made any sense, but hopefully you feel better now.


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## buck37




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## perchyanker

deerhunter1989 said:


> Can the mdnre get any more ignorant??? Cant you see that there are starting to be bigger bucks taken all over the state since baiting was banned! Why bring it back?? Just because a few city slickers cant shoot a deer every time the go to the woods?? Really the only thing you kill on a bait pile anyways are button bucks and doe fawns. So are you really helping out the deer herd? :rant:


 not everybody hunts for a trophy, some people like the meat. Besides those button bucks are easy dragging and are so very tasty!!


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## ryan-b

if ya want the meat why not shoot a doe?


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## deerhunter1989

Shoot a doe if you want meat. Why shoot the next generation of bucks?! Can you tell the difference between a doe fawn and a button buck?!


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## JOHNL

There is nothing wrong with taking fawns in some cases like in areas of high winter mortality. I agree with you about seeing bigger bucks because we have been as well.


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## deerhunter1989

Also I only hunt stateland in michigan, mostly tuscola and huron county! My buddy shot a nice 10 point this year and everyone has heard about the north branch monster along with many others that have been in magzines. In my opinoion thats from them not getting shot as button bucks or year and a half old bucks. actually getting a chance to grow up and become a mature buck.


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## sbooy42

thunderhead has two zits on his butt


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## Wally Gator

Hey Man I agree with ya, but your gonna see what having an opinion around here gets ya! Take your question over to the deer hunting forum and ask all the professionals over there what they think about bating. :lol: You'll learn all the unwritten rules of the MS soon Bud! :lol:


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## deerhunter1989

haha im not worried about it! i love to hear other peoples opinoins!! :lol: but will come to the other site too


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## glockman55

Wally Gator said:


> Hey Man I agree with ya, but your gonna see what having an opinion around here gets ya! Take your question over to the deer hunting forum and ask all the professionals over there what they think about bating. :lol: You'll learn all the unwritten rules of the MS soon Bud! :lol:


 
22 years old and 8 posts...gotta love it..:lol:


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## deerhunter1989

oh there will be more post dont worry about that!!
yah im 22......and that means what?


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## DFJISH

deerhunter1989 said:


> oh there will be more post dont worry about that!!
> yah im 22......and that means what?


After your rant, it might mean your IQ.


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## deerhunter1989

DFJISH said:


> After your rant, it might mean your IQ.


haha goood one :lol:


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## anonymous7242016

deerhunter1989 said:


> Can the mdnre get any more ignorant??? Cant you see that there are starting to be bigger bucks taken all over the state since baiting was banned! Why bring it back?? Just because a few city slickers cant shoot a deer every time the go to the woods?? Really the only thing you kill on a bait pile anyways are button bucks and doe fawns. So are you really helping out the deer herd? :rant:


 
Baiting has nothing to do with seeing bigger bucks. Most hunters will kill the largest deer visiting a bait pile, most hunters can distinguish the difference between a BB and a doe fawn easier at a bait pile, and bait or no bait the same age classes of deer are killed every year in about the same numbers.
As for helping the deer herd, IMO I don't think baiting is helping and I believe it has the potential to help with the spread of disease. Biologist will state that, yet there isn't any positive proof that "baiting" actually does. 
Baiting has been around for quite along time up until the ban. The deer herd and its dynamics have not really changed in decades. 
I am not against baiting, but I do not hunt over it, though I might use it during the LAS as it will draw in deer. I would like to put out minerals but the whole baiting/feeding thing really is not that important to me so ban or no ban, things will be pretty much the same. 
I wouldn't sweat it.


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## Bob S

deerhunter1989 said:


> Can the mdnre get any more ignorant???


Don't blame the DNRE, they are in favor of the bait ban. If it is lifted it will be by the NRC going against the wishes of the DNRE.


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## outfishin_

deerhunter1989 said:


> Shoot a doe if you want meat. Why shoot the next generation of bucks?! Can you tell the difference between a doe fawn and a button buck?!


I'll shoot what I darn well feel like on that given day! I bought my tag(s) so get off your high horse and chill out..


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## glockman55

deerhunter1989 said:


> oh there will be more post dont worry about that!!
> yah im 22......and that means what?


Don't get so flipped out about it, we've all been there, know everything and bullet proof.. nothing wrong with that. and I don't worry about much..


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## deerhunter1989

I'm not saying I know everything but see what people shoot over bait piles! Just because I'm voicing an opinion doesnt have anything to do with my age.....and I've read after the posting about the NRA and not the dnre


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## tjstebb

SPH said:


> people who are bringing kids into this world and want to get them interested in the sport, a nice bait pile sure would be nice every now and then to keep the little ones interested.


 
This is probably the biggest reason i support baiting! It is tough in this " gotta have results now" world we live in. Kids get bored very fast sitting in the woods. They get satisfaction instantly while on there video games at home. We need to get them into the woods doesn't matter if they kill one or not but if a bait pile helps them see a deer they will be hooked. We can teach them our belief why we should kill bigger ones and how that helps the population thrive while they are seeing deer. It will go in one ear and out the other if your trying to explain it at home while they are on the play stations!


Of course this answer doesn't apply to the guy with 8 food plots :lol:. As he already has his bait pile and his heated blind to keep warm and a nice comfy chair to sit in. Man i hate being a lazy hunter and sitting in a unheated tree stand on a uncomfortable seat that makes my legs go to sleep and my back hurt. To tell ya the truth i don't even know why i hunt!:lol: Oh yeah cause vension taste good thats it!


tjstebb


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## Bambicidal Maniac

youp50 said:


> Trouble with antler point restrictions. Yearling 8 point or spike, fast forward 4 years and tell me which will push the B&C envelope. Except the 8 pt yearling will be burger and the spike will never get B&C big.


Antler point restrictions aren't perfect solutions, just better solutions than "Shoot anything with horns."



> Second problem. Some areas of Michigan have a strain of bucks that lack eye guards. We have taken several two and a half year old forkhorns. Is it a good idea to protect the bucks lacking eye guards to beget more of the same?


I don't have a problem with no eyeguards. I don't expect a perfect solution.



> To me QDM means quality deer meat. Everyone that has eaten venison can tell you that the yearling bucks are better in the pan.


I prefer yearling doe or even better, doe fawn. I don't eat the parts that prove gender. :lol:


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## Darton78

I can say that with no bait i don't see much deer but i hunt swamp land and they just don't move around as much. Now i do hunt different property and have seen some nice bucks without baiting so bait or no bait it should be our choice. I even heard there trying to make sense illegal too now


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## deerhunter1989

Well gonna hit home here but oh well! I beg to disagree with seeing more deer with bait! That's just laziness as a "hunter"! I hunt stateland where every Tom dick and Harry hunt! I almost always see deer everytime I go to the woods! If u do your preseason scouting and know where the deer are bedding and eating thn you should b able to get into the right spot to kill whatever the heck you need to to fill your family's face!!!!!!!


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## tjstebb

deerhunter1989 said:


> Well gonna hit home here but oh well! I beg to disagree with seeing more deer with bait! That's just laziness as a "hunter"! I hunt stateland where every Tom dick and Harry hunt! I almost always see deer everytime I go to the woods! If u do your preseason scouting and know where the deer are bedding and eating thn you should b able to get into the right spot to kill whatever the heck you need to to fill your family's face!!!!!!!


 

When i use to bait.....I knew where the deer where eating and i filled my tags and fed my families face . Now i spend more time out of state hunting but occasionally i still get my knuckle dragging lazy butt out around here too. :lol::lol:


tjstebb


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## springdale

Does Vasser have millions of acers of oaks? Around this country you dont just sit on the corner of a corn field, its wind direction, acorn abundunce, coyote abundunce, and a whole lot more, instead of 2 or 3 good runs ways there is a million different ways to get to food and a million different food sources. Now saying that I have shot allot of deer not on bait, but like the others have already said it does help with seeing deer for the kids and older hunters. So I think this is more of a issue in different parts of the State. As we all know Michigan isnt the same from downstate to the UP.

Mark


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## dsconnell

sbooy42 said:


> thunderhead has two zits on his butt


Almost scared to ask how you know that?... 

Guys.. if you dont like the way some folks hunt.. Keep it to yourself! If you dont like the fact that someone might shoot a button buck its really none of your business what they shoot as long as they do it legally! I for one am for them bringing back the baiting because I know I can take kids and they will see deer. Surely i hunt big deer too but it is ignorant to sit here and hammer someone that doesnt...


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## brushbuster

I kinda like this deerhunter 1989.
Hes got guts, stands up for what he believes. Says what he means and means what he says. Keep up the fight young man. I would feel the same way about him if he was for baiting as well. Not many young people like that anymore. Maybe could use a little tact but all and all not to shabby.


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## dsconnell

deerhunter1989 said:


> Well gonna hit home here but oh well! I beg to disagree with seeing more deer with bait! That's just laziness as a "hunter"! I hunt stateland where every Tom dick and Harry hunt! I almost always see deer everytime I go to the woods! If u do your preseason scouting and know where the deer are bedding and eating thn you should b able to get into the right spot to kill whatever the heck you need to to fill your family's face!!!!!!![/QUOTE
> 
> You have been on this site for a month and your already telling everyone what they should and should not be doing?? You wont last long!
> 
> Word of advise.. You keep doing what you are doing and quit worrying about what others do!
> 
> I agree with Terry.. I barely even hunt this state anymore but I surely like to take others out hunting here and kids..


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## dsconnell

brushbuster said:


> I kinda like this deerhunter 1989.
> Hes got guts, stands up in what he belives. says what he means and means what he says. Keep up the fight young man. I would feel the same way about him if he was for baiting as well. Not many young people like that anymore.


There is a difference Brad between standing up for what you believe in and ridculing others that dont see things the way you do.. Different strokes for different folks.. Go around bashing others for the way the like to do things and your chances of earning anyones respect are gone.. Especially being on this site for a month!


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## tjstebb

dsconnell said:


> I am gonna print and frame this to prove to my wife that people do agree with me! :lol::lol: and she is the only one that refuses to!
> 
> 
> 
> tjstebb


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## brushbuster

dsconnell said:


> There is a difference Brad between standing up for what you believe in and ridculing others that dont see things the way you do.. Different strokes for different folks.. Go around bashing others for the way the like to do things and your chances of earning anyones respect are gone.. Especially being on this site for a month!


Your right Dan I didnt see post 6 I dont agree with that.


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## dsconnell

deerhunter1989 said:


> it just seems like since the baiting hasnt been "legal" there has been more bucks around the area! i really didnt mean blasting all baiters because there are always good people in every subject. but i passed up 20 small bucks last season and i have never seen that many bucks. i also seen 3 quality bucks something around the 120 range.
> apologys to anyone affended!


Good post!! 

There are certain situations that I would use bait and others I would not.. Hopefully those 120" bucks made it through and you will get a crack at one in the coming season!


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## springdale

I hunted out of state last year and never even stepped in the wood with my rifle when I got back (NOV 19th) it&#8217;s like fishing in Canada when I get back I put my boat away there&#8217;s just no comparison as sad as it is to say. There&#8217;s no reason for it either we have more resources than most but just don&#8217;t feed them the way we should IMOP.

If Mich ever decides to really stock the fish, repair the deer numbers in certain areas of the state, then I will support them full force, but it&#8217;s more like a half hearted job right now with the almighty dollar running the system. I would bet almost everyone on this site and most others would contribute moneys other than license fees to help with Deer habitat, fish stocking and so on if we knew for SURE that the money was being used only for that purpose. I know I would anyway. 

Think of the jobs created if we went full bore on fish stockings, habitat for Deer & small game plus a bounty on all predators.
[/COLOR] 
If you fill the lakes with fish just think of how all the retailers in these small towns would benefit, plus most of the Deer hunter would stay home instead of feeding other states the money needed right here in Michigan. Oh I know it&#8217;s all a pipe dream I guess but I feel it&#8217;s all just a lack of commitment on our part.

Mark
 


Sorry I got off the Baiting issue, but I feel better now!


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## deerhunter1989

dsconnell said:


> Good post!!
> 
> There are certain situations that I would use bait and others I would not.. Hopefully those 120" bucks made it through and you will get a crack at one in the coming season!


Two of the bucks tht were around 120 were poached :-( so yah joys of people that are idk even what to call them......


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## determinedArcher

If they allow baiting again I sure as heck hope they take cross bows out of archery season!!!!!! wasn't the dnr's reason for allowing them in archery season to help increase the deer harvests because hunters weren't shooting as many deer due to the baiting ban???????? :evilsmile


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## deerhunter1989

well crossbows have there place too. for children women and older people that cannot pull the poundage back to successfully kill a deer there great. on the other hand speaking to the dnr they are an easier way to poach deer too sooo:tdo12:


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## springdale

determinedArcher said:


> If they allow baiting again I sure as heck hope they take cross bows out of archery season!!!!!! wasn't the dnr's reason for allowing them in archery season to help increase the deer harvests because hunters weren't shooting as many deer due to the baiting ban???????? :evilsmile


Good point DA!

I dont believe they will open it up again, I saw an interview with Russ Mason the other day and he is still against it big time, but they want to here the people's view even though I dont think it will matter! I agree on the crossbows though, wow! I shot one this year and it was like a rifle, I was hitting a 1" bullseye at 30 yds every time.


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## swampbuck

springdale said:


> I hunted out of state last year and never even stepped in the wood with my rifle when I got back (NOV 19th) its like fishing in Canada when I get back I put my boat away theres just no comparison as sad as it is to say. Theres no reason for it either we have more resources than most but just dont feed them the way we should IMOP.
> 
> If Mich ever decides to really stock the fish, repair the deer numbers in certain areas of the state, then I will support them full force, but its more like a half hearted job right now with the almighty dollar running the system. I would bet almost everyone on this site and most others would contribute moneys other than license fees to help with Deer habitat, fish stocking and so on if we knew for SURE that the money was being used only for that purpose. I know I would anyway.
> 
> Think of the jobs created if we went full bore on fish stockings, habitat for Deer & small game plus a bounty on all predators.
> 
> If you fill the lakes with fish just think of how all the retailers in these small towns would benefit, plus most of the Deer hunter would stay home instead of feeding other states the money needed right here in Michigan. Oh I know its all a pipe dream I guess but I feel its all just a lack of commitment on our part.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I got off the Baiting issue, but I feel better now!


 Excellent post......The MDNR are failing us in just about every aspect of hunting to fishing. It didnt used to be like that. :sad:


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## brushbuster

swampbuck said:


> Excellent post......The MDNR are failing us in just about every aspect of hunting to fishing. It didnt used to be like that. :sad:


I wonder where it started. Makes me wonder if growing a pair would help. Like the baiting issue for instance. The way that was handled it made them a laughing stock. They didnt enforce what they enacted and now they are trying to meet everyones desires. Instead of stepping up to the plate and take charge and listen to their biologists who state that baiting is a bad thing. No. they listen to the sound of dollars and whiners. We have asian carp knocking on our doors, we mismanaged funds. we have dwindling deer herds in parts of the state. We have an over population in other parts. And we have a large portion of hunters that are taking their money else where. We have politicians that think its more important to change dates than to fix the problems at hand. It looks like a rapid downhill spiral. With no way out.


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## DFJISH

May I suggest taking the fish stocking issue to another post? I'd like to hear (Not here.) how on earth anyone can find fault with the DNR for the amount of fish stocking they do.


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## TVCJohn

springdale said:


> I hunted out of state last year and never even stepped in the wood with my rifle when I got back (NOV 19th) its like fishing in Canada when I get back I put my boat away theres just no comparison as sad as it is to say. Theres no reason for it either we have more resources than most but just dont feed them the way we should IMOP.
> 
> If Mich ever decides to really stock the fish, repair the deer numbers in certain areas of the state, then I will support them full force, but its more like a half hearted job right now with the almighty dollar running the system. I would bet almost everyone on this site and most others would contribute moneys other than license fees to help with Deer habitat, fish stocking and so on if we knew for SURE that the money was being used only for that purpose. I know I would anyway.
> 
> Think of the jobs created if we went full bore on fish stockings, habitat for Deer & small game plus a bounty on all predators.
> 
> If you fill the lakes with fish just think of how all the retailers in these small towns would benefit, plus most of the Deer hunter would stay home instead of feeding other states the money needed right here in Michigan. Oh I know its all a pipe dream I guess but I feel its all just a lack of commitment on our part.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I got off the Baiting issue, but I feel better now!


This is a good post that brings up a few thoughts. I have seen a couple of examples where the the state isn't the problem but the hunters and fisherman are.

A long time ago I suggested something similar to what you're referring to about stocking fish. My thought at the time was to start a steelhead/salmon run up to the headwaters of a local river. Some people didn't like the idea because they felt it would ruin the current trout fishing. I'm thinking we have other rivers that support resident and migratory fish, why not ours?? This could open up some expanded fishing opportunity and help promote the area. Anyway....some of what I would classify as purists only seen it one way from their perspective. Maybe one day though.....

This mindset drifts over to baiting. Me personally on baiting...I can take baiting or leave it. If it's legal I'd do it if the situation dictated. Otherwise I have other successful hunting methods of seeing deer that don't rely on bait, food plots or corn/bean fields. I'll adapt either way and be successful. The point is I'd like to have the option as MY CHOICE, not some other hunter who has the view their way is the only way.

The late Ben Lee said it best...._"I like deer hunting so much, if there is a rock throwing season for deer, I'll buy a tag for it!"_



John


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## springdale

TVCJohn said:


> This is a good post that brings up a few thoughts. I have seen a couple of examples where the the state isn't the problem but the hunters and fisherman are.
> 
> A long time ago I suggested something similar to what you're referring to about stocking fish. My thought at the time was to start a steelhead/salmon run up to the headwaters of a local river. Some people didn't like the idea because they felt it would ruin the current trout fishing. I'm thinking we have other rivers that support resident and migratory fish, why not ours?? This could open up some expanded fishing opportunity and help promote the area. Anyway....some of what I would classify as purists only seen it one way from their perspective. Maybe one day though.....
> 
> This mindset drifts over to baiting. Me personally on baiting...I can take baiting or leave it. If it's legal I'd do it if the situation dictated. Otherwise I have other successful hunting methods of seeing deer that don't rely on bait, food plots or corn/bean fields. I'll adapt either way and be successful. The point is I'd like to have the option as MY CHOICE, not some other hunter who has the view their way is the only way.
> 
> The late Ben Lee said it best...._"I like deer hunting so much, if there is a rock throwing season for deer, I'll buy a tag for it!"_
> 
> 
> 
> John


Well said John, to each his own!


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## springdale

DFJISH said:


> May I suggest taking the fish stocking issue to another post? I'd like to hear (Not here.) how on earth anyone can find fault with the DNR for the amount of fish stocking they do.


 You can suggest what ever you like DFJ, thats the point you have a choice! I couldnt find the fish stocking forum, and it was sorta in with the deer baiting issue! On the DNR I never even mentioned the DNR, I said Mich meaning all of us! If you call the DNR yourself, all of the field people will tell you the samething I did, we need to stock more fish, its no secret. I talk to a fisherys guy allot and he knows as well as I but its not our #1 priorty with the money we have available. I asked him the other day about building more fish hatcherys and he said they would love it but we have no money to support the program, thats all I was saying.

Mark


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## zeeke33

Darton78 said:


> I can say that with no bait i don't see much deer but i hunt swamp land and they just don't move around as much. Now i do hunt different property and have seen some nice bucks without baiting so bait or no bait it should be our choice. I even heard there trying to make sense illegal too now


 
That last part explains alot !


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## bassdisaster

deerhunter1989 said:


> Well gonna hit home here but oh well! I beg to disagree with seeing more deer with bait! That's just laziness as a "hunter"! I hunt stateland where every Tom dick and Harry hunt! I almost always see deer everytime I go to the woods! If u do your preseason scouting and know where the deer are bedding and eating thn you should b able to get into the right spot to kill whatever the heck you need to to fill your family's face!!!!!!!


Ok DieHard the Hunter, if we all have to be like that then why bother, if we all have to hunt hard then wheres the real enjoyment, i dont bait and i never liked knowing those baiters changed the deer movement in my area's but I also believe in freedom of choice, weather it be to bait or shoot that spike, and I believe a 1-2 1/2yr old buck has way tastier vennison then any doe walking!

BD


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## deerhunter1989

Yes everyone has there opinion so if that's yours that's cool!


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## determinedArcher

bassdisaster said:


> Ok DieHard the Hunter, if we all have to be like that then why bother, if we all have to hunt hard then wheres the real enjoyment, i dont bait and i never liked knowing those baiters changed the deer movement in my area's but I also believe in freedom of choice, weather it be to bait or shoot that spike, and I believe a 1-2 1/2yr old buck has way tastier vennison then any doe walking!
> 
> BD


 There you go! this is exactly why MI is not ready for QDM and the ban needs to stay in place!!!! LAZYNESS at its finest! I cant belive you actully said where is the enjoyment in hunting hard! maybe shooting/seeing deer everytime you hunt.  (but wait here come the pro-baiters to say i can see deer everytime if i have 200lbs of corn 15yrds from my stand!)And advocating the harvest of small bucks because you like the way they taste, why no shoot a doe fawn or 1 1/2 old doe or can you not age deer on the hoof so you shoot small bucks because you know they're young?


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## deerhunter1989

determinedArcher said:


> There you go! this is exactly why MI is not ready for QDM and the ban needs to stay in place!!!! LAZYNESS at its finest! I cant belive you actully said where is the enjoyment in hunting hard! maybe shooting/seeing deer everytime you hunt.  (but wait here come the pro-baiters to say i can see deer everytime if i have 200lbs of corn 15yrds from my stand!)And advocating the harvest of small bucks because you like the way they taste, why no shoot a doe fawn or 1 1/2 old doe or can you not age deer on the hoof so you shoot small bucks because you know they're young?


Well im glad to see someone else is agreeing with me!!


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## sbooy42

I was unware that seeing and killing deer had anything to do with enjoyment..


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## deerhunter1989

sbooy42 said:


> I was unware that seeing and killing deer had anything to do with enjoyment..


NO but it sure makes you feel good when you have put in a lot of time scouting to see a deer or to harvest a deer isnt it? I usually only take about 4 deer a year......thats a lot of time in the woods not killing!


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## William H Bonney

DH1989 and DA,,, while I can appreciate speaking one's mind and standing up for what they believe in, but,, at the same time you guys do realize that you're actually _hurting_ your cause with this approach, right? ?


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## deerhunter1989

bassdisaster said:


> Ok DieHard the Hunter, if we all have to be like that then why bother, if we all have to hunt hard then wheres the real enjoyment, i dont bait and i never liked knowing those baiters changed the deer movement in my area's but I also believe in freedom of choice, weather it be to bait or shoot that spike, and I believe a 1-2 1/2yr old buck has way tastier vennison then any doe walking!
> 
> BD


And why is it that i get called an inexperinced hunter in one forum and a die hard in another. I scout my butt off to see deer and dont depend on bait. i think i had said this before. but isnt hunting hard somewhat the enjoyment in it to be in the woods as much as possible? and find out what the deer are doing? but im inexperinced?


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## captjimtc

deerhunter1989 said:


> well of course theres exceptions to every rule. my dad 6 years ago shot an 11 point that scored near 130 100 yards from our house on a bait pile during bow season..... nice deer though



Alot more than exceptions to the rule. I know lots of bucks in the Yoop taken off bait piles every year that are in the 120 to 150 class...Lots of them and none of them are ever reported for recognition or cheezy patches. People who say big bucks don't come to bait piles are simply putting their piles in the wrong area or using the wrong bait. Big bucks do come to bait and do so on a regular basis but you must first have the patience to let all the little scrubs go. If I want meat I'll buy beef from a grocery store. I say bring back baiting and dump the 2 gal rule too.


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## Elk5012

Why is it that the people that don't use bait want the "baiters" to hunt like them, but then not one of the "baiters" are pressuring the non baiters to use bait? Seems to me that we don't give a crap how you hunt or how much time you get out and enjoy the woods scouting, let us enjoy our way of hunting too.


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## sbooy42

deerhunter1989 said:


> NO but it sure makes you feel good when you have put in a lot of time scouting to see a deer or to harvest a deer isnt it? I usually only take about 4 deer a year......thats a lot of time in the woods not killing!


Sorry I forgot the  on my last post... I too get more enjoyment out of working hard to see and kill deer. Nothing I hate more than spending a weekend away from family, up in a tree and not seeing any deer.. yeah I enjoy the outdoors but getting my hands bloody adds to the enjoyment... #of hrs spend in the woods to kill 4 deer really depends on your location..(not an insult)


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## determinedArcher

William H Bonney said:


> DH1989 and DA,,, while I can appreciate speaking one's mind and standing up for what they believe in, but,, at the same time you guys do realize that you're actually _hurting_ your cause with this approach, right? ?


:lol: by voicing my thought on a subject to a lazy hunter who admits it on a public forum. should i go out a do the hard work for them???? and show them the possibilities? but wait then they'll depend on me instead of a bait pile to see deer:evilsmile


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## springdale

determinedArcher said:


> :lol: by voicing my thought on a subject to a lazy hunter who admits it on a public forum. should i go out a do the hard work for them???? and show them the possibilities? but wait then they'll depend on me instead of a bait pile to see deer:evilsmile


I'm with William H Bonney on this one.

Its not the fact that youre voicing an opinion, its the fact youre calling people Lazy you dont even know. There's allot of things that make our decisions for us in life including health, jobs, family, and access to hunting land and so on. So to sit behind a keyboard and call out others for their ways isnt a smart argument no matter what side youre on. Not everyone has hours upon hours to scout, so I can see their point on the Baiting issue, plus like I stated before the lay of the land has a big play in how to hunt it. If we all could wait for scrapes, rub lines and such things are a bit different. Maybe baiting until Nov 1, then no more after that or something of that sort. I always took the 3rd week of Oct off every year to watch bucks makeing scrapes but its not always that easy, it may be later or earlier some years. So to guess just right with a persons vacation time isnt always spot on with the beginning of the rut. So what I'm saying is not everyone hunts 60 to 90 days a year and not because their lazy, other factors play a huge role.


----------



## deerhunter1989

sbooy42 said:


> Sorry I forgot the  on my last post... I too get more enjoyment out of working hard to see and kill deer. Nothing I hate more than spending a weekend away from family, up in a tree and not seeing any deer.. yeah I enjoy the outdoors but getting my hands bloody adds to the enjoyment... #of hrs spend in the woods to kill 4 deer really depends on your location..(not an insult)


 
haha no offence taken! heres my thing i didnt kill a buck last year and ate both buck tags. i missed one but we will forget about that :lol: on the other hand i let 20 small ones go and could have shot them.....soo in my book if they were in range and i could have killed them thats enough satisfaction for me  make sence?


----------



## deerhunter1989

springdale said:


> I'm with William H Bonney on this one.
> 
> Its not the fact that youre voicing an opinion, its the fact youre calling people Lazy you dont even know. There's allot of things that make our decisions for us in life including health, jobs, family, and access to hunting land and so on. So to sit behind a keyboard and call out others for their ways isnt a smart argument no matter what side youre on. Not everyone has hours upon hours to scout, so I can see their point on the Baiting issue, plus like I stated before the lay of the land has a big play in how to hunt it. If we all could wait for scrapes, rub lines and such things are a bit different. Maybe baiting until Nov 1, then no more after that or something of that sort. I always took the 3rd week of Oct off every year to watch bucks makeing scrapes but its not always that easy, it may be later or earlier some years. So to guess just right with a persons vacation time isnt always spot on with the beginning of the rut. So what I'm saying is not everyone hunts 60 to 90 days a year and not because their lazy, other factors play a huge role.


Yes very nice point made!! although im one of the "opinonated" ones on here there are a lot of factors when it comes to scouting! I do work full time, have a gf, have my own house, nice truck, and all the crap that comes with owning a house. sooo i didnt get to the woods as much as i wanted to BUT.... i made the most of it when i did and in my opinoin and i have read this in a magazine..... you should scout three days to every day you hunt! that brings success  but i was also called inexperinced sooo


----------



## sbooy42

Elk5012 said:


> Why is it that the people that don't use bait want the "baiters" to hunt like them, but then not one of the "baiters" are pressuring the non baiters to use bait? Seems to me that we don't give a crap how you hunt or how much time you get out and enjoy the woods scouting, let us enjoy our way of hunting too.


 I agree. Do what ya want on your own land but keep it off the the public lands where choices do affect other hunters...By dumping it on public lands it is being forced on others..

There are rules in place to keep the public lands natural and IMO dumping a foreign substance goes against those rules...


----------



## springdale

deerhunter1989 said:


> Yes very nice point made!! although im one of the "opinonated" ones on here there are a lot of factors when it comes to scouting! I do work full time, have a gf, have my own house, nice truck, and all the crap that comes with owning a house. sooo i didnt get to the woods as much as i wanted to BUT.... i made the most of it when i did and in my opinoin and i have read this in a magazine..... you should scout three days to every day you hunt! that brings success  but i was also called inexperinced sooo


I agree DH on the scouting, I do a ton myself. The point I was making is we are all different and we all have our own ways so It should be one choice to hunt, fish, do whatever however as long as its within the law. Right now Baiting in the LP isnt so it shouldnt be done. If they turn it around and open it back up (highly unlikely) then nobody should be judged.


----------



## deerhunter1989

sbooy42 said:


> I agree. Do what ya want on your own land but keep it off the the public lands where choices do affect other hunters...By dumping it on public lands it is being forced on others..
> 
> There are rules in place to keep the public lands natural and IMO dumping a foreign substance goes against those rules...


well its not even that that makes me mad! almost every pile i see in the woods theres those plastic bags that bait comes in too!! and its bad enough people are ignorant and dump garbage in it seems like every parking lot. But then theres stuff in the woods toooo!! that really sucks


----------



## deerhunter1989

springdale said:


> I agree DH on the scouting, I do a ton myself. The point I was making is we are all different and we all have our own ways so It should be one choice to hunt, fish, do whatever however as long as its within the law. Right now Baiting in the LP isnt so it shouldnt be done. If they turn it around and open it back up (highly unlikely) then nobody should be judged.


true statement but i have apoligzied for my judgement at the beginning when i was a little out of hand.  and i was judge a lot on what i said not saying i didnt deserve it butttt loll :lol:


----------



## determinedArcher

springdale said:


> I'm with William H Bonney on this one.
> 
> Its not the fact that youre voicing an opinion, its the fact youre calling people Lazy you dont even know. There's allot of things that make our decisions for us in life including health, jobs, family, and access to hunting land and so on. So to sit behind a keyboard and call out others for their ways isnt a smart argument no matter what side youre on. Not everyone has hours upon hours to scout, so I can see their point on the Baiting issue, plus like I stated before the lay of the land has a big play in how to hunt it. If we all could wait for scrapes, rub lines and such things are a bit different. Maybe baiting until Nov 1, then no more after that or something of that sort. I always took the 3rd week of Oct off every year to watch bucks makeing scrapes but its not always that easy, it may be later or earlier some years. So to guess just right with a persons vacation time isnt always spot on with the beginning of the rut. So what I'm saying is not everyone hunts 60 to 90 days a year and not because their lazy, other factors play a huge role.


The man said where is the enjoyment in hunting hard, dont know him personally but that quote pretty much sums it up my.


----------



## SPH

Some people assume that when you hunt over bait it makes you lazy but I think that is stereo typing a bit.

My reason for wanting to hunt over bait is not for my own benefit of shooting a small buck. If the goal is to shoot does and get my kids interested in hunting I consider this a plus.

If I scout, put in food plots and sit all bow season and gun season in well placed stands to shoot 1 good buck or nothing at all that is considered hard core. But after all the hunting is done and I take my 5yrs old out to pop up blind with a heater during muzzle loader season and hunt over a pail of corn so he can see some deer than I am considered a lazy slob.

As it is now, this is the exact scenerio that I have except my kids are looking at open fields and we will go a week without seeing a deer and the kids have zero interest in hunting as well as my wife. They actually make fun of me during late season about all the time I spend in the woods to see 1 deer a week. I love it but am not gaining any fans in my family.

Most of you are taking your lazy neighbor and painting that picture on anyone who would utilize bait.

Slobs will be slobs regardless of rules and regulations!!!


----------



## deerhunter1989

determinedArcher said:


> The man said where is the enjoyment in hunting hard, dont know him personally but that quote pretty much sums it up my.


Isnt hunting suppose to be the enjoyment in the whole experince? not just killing?? but agreed with you there too thats why i take a camera with me so i can shoot them with that instead of my bow


----------



## deerhunter1989

SPH said:


> Some people assume that when you hunt over bait it makes you lazy but I think that is stereo typing a bit.
> 
> My reason for wanting to hunt over bait is not for my own benefit of shooting a small buck. If the goal is to shoot does and get my kids interested in hunting I consider this a plus.
> 
> If I scout, put in food plots and sit all bow season and gun season in well placed stands to shoot 1 good buck or nothing at all that is considered hard core. But after all the hunting is done and I take my 5yrs old out to pop up blind with a heater during muzzle loader season and hunt over a pail of corn so he can see some deer than I am considered a lazy slob.
> 
> As it is now, this is the exact scenerio that I have except my kids are looking at open fields and we will go a week without seeing a deer and the kids have zero interest in hunting as well as my wife. They actually make fun of me during late season about all the time I spend in the woods to see 1 deer a week. I love it but am not gaining any fans in my family.
> 
> Most of you are taking your lazy neighbor and painting that picture on anyone who would utilize bait.
> 
> Slobs will be slobs regardless of rules and regulations!!!


well like stated a million times in this forum theres exceptions to every rule. when it comes to youngsters they all have ADD lol and the birds and squirrells keep them going when theres corn exspecially when theres snow but anyways theres no right or wrong in this debate.


----------



## sbooy42

deerhunter1989 said:


> well its not even that that makes me mad! almost every pile i see in the woods theres those plastic bags that bait comes in too!! and its bad enough people are ignorant and dump garbage in it seems like every parking lot. But then theres stuff in the woods toooo!! that really sucks


Yeah but I didnt want to get accused of calling anyone a lazy littering slob..


----------



## deerhunter1989

And i know that i prolly sound like im counterdicting myself but..... the somewhat mean post werent to anyone that actually explained themselves and had a liget point. Its the people that have blamed my opionions on my age, inexperince, lack of time on this sight, etc. most of the people that have posted on here brought a liget point up from hunting land to where your at. a million diff things that baiting is good bad etc. 
thats what i liked.... i recieved opioions on both sides of the story without name calling and iq comments


----------



## deerhunter1989

sbooy42 said:


> Yeah but I didnt want to get accused of calling anyone a lazy littering slob..


well im not calling all baiters littering slobs.......and i bet the people that dumb crap in the parking lots are not even hunters......why i say that?! because respectful hunters, wheather you bait or not kill bambi or bowinkle scout a ton or not at all, like the woods and dont like to see garbage in a parking lot! baiting isnt garbage fyi

SO THANK YOU TO ALL THE RESPECTFUL HUNTERS THAT ENJOY THE WOODS IN ITS NATURAL STATE!! WITHOUT GARBAGE


----------



## bigmac

There was a bait ban???? When? Where? Did anyone tell the people at the gas stations?


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## springdale

Bait meeting going on right now! Michigan out of door web site


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## deerhunter1989

springdale said:


> Bait meeting going on right now! Michigan out of door web site


crap im on my iphone without much service.... could you fill me in?


----------



## sbooy42

bigmac said:


> There was a bait ban???? When? Where? Did anyone tell the people at the gas stations?


 they forgot to tell them drunk driving was illegal too:lol:


----------



## cmark

To the fence. Approaching from the management side. WHB couldn't have said it better.


----------



## springdale

deerhunter1989 said:


> crap im on my iphone without much service.... could you fill me in?


The total meeting is recorded and can be viewed on the mucc web page


----------



## Steve

It is also on our home page.


----------



## JimP

deerhunter1989 said:


> Well gonna hit home here but oh well! I beg to disagree with seeing more deer with bait! That's just laziness as a "hunter"! I hunt stateland where every Tom dick and Harry hunt! I almost always see deer everytime I go to the woods! If u do your preseason scouting and know where the deer are bedding and eating thn you should b able to get into the right spot to kill whatever the heck you need to to fill your family's face!!!!!!!


Not that simple any more for many without the capacity to explore and scout, cover long distances or difficult terrain.
A blanket statement doesn't seem fair to each of those with unique situations and different lots in life.

We found and maybe forgot all those good places years ago...a couple mile hikes over hill and dale and through swamps were the norm. Some of those spots are now paved over or inaccessible in other ways.

Our circumstances change over the years as does the land, either by choice or fate.
Arthritis, diabetes, breathing/heart problems, accident or war wounds, artificial limbs, cane walkers...even wheel chairs.
Maybe it's only 10%, 25% of those hunters that are in that situation, IMO, It's the same as the Crossbow debate or Fly vs. Worm debate. It should be to each persons choice according to their circumstances, without being disparaged by his peers.
Unity in purpose to support the sport should be the priority.

Again, circumstances change.
All our family's well established hunting areas, public and private, have yielded success for over 40 years. 
Funnels in the terrain, deeply trodden runs between *natural *food, water holes are still there...but maybe _we_ can't get there.

Among others, I have a 6 acre parcel in a private association with 7 blinds on it that all have taken numerous deer...bow, gun, pistol and muzzy. Just assess the wind, snow cover or time of day and pick the appropriate blind.
In 28 years the family has never gone without venison off this land until last season.

It borders a long narrow beaver pond where deer walked along our side at dawn and dusk to get from a swamp to a pine plantation and grassland. It was like they had a time clock to punch at each destination.

Two years ago a non member, on 40 acres of private land near the other side of the pond, clear cut some pines, dug everything up and put in (2) 2 acre food plots. He did a great job...his prerogative.
Result:
1. All the deer movement is now on the other side of the pond/swamp of which we can't access or trespass...
and, 
2. We could never dig everything up and do plots on our side because of deed restrictions in cutting trees and disturbing natural areas.
Personal garden size is limited to 250 sq ft and must be fenced.

Maybe a bit of bait different than his offerings might get them back occasionally to their historical routes on our side?

Our other family properties border and separate 300 acres of Orchards and a vast swamp.
No predictable routes exist through the very hilly forest, there are dozens of them, and only 2-3 of us to cover 80 acres.
Bait used to get the deer into somewhat predictable patterns and routes where we might get a chance to see them.
Over the years I've taken (3) 11 point, 220# plus wallhangers that were hanging around the hilltops overlooking those routes.
Following the crowd and arbitrary cutting, clearing/funneling/plots are not an option for my BIL in his retirement.
No place to do it.
Old growth trees are valued at $150-$400 apiece and are select cut every 7-8 years.

I guess that's about it for a position paper, another POV...:0)


----------



## deerhunter1989

jimp said:


> Not that simple any more for many without the capacity to explore and scout, cover long distances or difficult terrain.
> A blanket statement doesn't seem fair to each of those with unique situations and different lots in life.
> 
> We found and maybe forgot all those good places years ago...a couple mile hikes over hill and dale and through swamps were the norm. Some of those spots are now paved over or inaccessible in other ways.
> 
> Our circumstances change over the years as does the land, either by choice or fate.
> Arthritis, diabetes, breathing/heart problems, accident or war wounds, artificial limbs, cane walkers...even wheel chairs.
> Maybe it's only 10%, 25% of those hunters that are in that situation, IMO, It's the same as the Crossbow debate or Fly vs. Worm debate. It should be to each persons choice according to their circumstances, without being disparaged by his peers.
> Unity in purpose to support the sport should be the priority.
> 
> Again, circumstances change.
> All our family's well established hunting areas, public and private, have yielded success for over 40 years.
> Funnels in the terrain, deeply trodden runs between *natural *food, water holes are still there...but maybe _we_ can't get there.
> 
> Among others, I have a 6 acre parcel in a private association with 7 blinds on it that all have taken numerous deer...bow, gun, pistol and muzzy. Just assess the wind, snow cover or time of day and pick the appropriate blind.
> In 28 years the family has never gone without venison off this land until last season.
> 
> It borders a long narrow beaver pond where deer walked along our side at dawn and dusk to get from a swamp to a pine plantation and grassland. It was like they had a time clock to punch at each destination.
> 
> Two years ago a non member, on 40 acres of private land near the other side of the pond, clear cut some pines, dug everything up and put in (2) 2 acre food plots. He did a great job...his prerogative.
> Result:
> 1. All the deer movement is now on the other side of the pond/swamp of which we can't access or trespass...
> and,
> 2. We could never dig everything up and do plots on our side because of deed restrictions in cutting trees and disturbing natural areas.
> Personal garden size is limited to 250 sq ft and must be fenced.
> 
> Maybe a bit of bait different than his offerings might get them back occasionally to their historical routes on our side?
> 
> Our other family properties border and separate 300 acres of Orchards and a vast swamp.
> No predictable routes exist through the very hilly forest, there are dozens of them, and only 2-3 of us to cover 80 acres.
> Bait used to get the deer into somewhat predictable patterns and routes where we might get a chance to see them.
> Over the years I've taken (3) 11 point, 220# plus wallhangers that were hanging around the hilltops overlooking those routes.
> Following the crowd and arbitrary cutting, clearing/funneling/plots are not an option for my BIL in his retirement.
> No place to do it.
> Old growth trees are valued at $150-$400 apiece and are select cut every 7-8 years.
> 
> I guess that's about it for a position paper, another POV...:0)


lol yah i see where your coming from and i have stated that theres exceptions and things nice point... i mean points =)


----------



## 6inchtrack

Bait is a great tool for harvesting anterless deer.

If the horns are less than 3" then it's anterless.
And I've read on here about 57,000 times that more anterless deer need to be killed.


----------



## Putman Lake Campground

deerhunter1989 said:


> Shoot a doe if you want meat. Why shoot the next generation of bucks?! Can you tell the difference between a doe fawn and a button buck?!


any other suggestions ? LOL

I couldn't resist
I remember when my son (at a VERY young age was teaching my aunt how to tell the difference on animals by finding the "suckers, the things babies suck on"


----------



## Putman Lake Campground

deerhunter1989 said:


> Can the mdnre get any more ignorant??? Cant you see that there are starting to be bigger bucks taken all over the state since baiting was banned! Why bring it back?? Just because a few city slickers cant shoot a deer every time the go to the woods?? Really the only thing you kill on a bait pile anyways are button bucks and doe fawns. So are you really helping out the deer herd? :rant:



Looki there guys!! for a 22 yo that started out with a whooping 8 posts he's netted 9 pages so far!!

Good showing deerhunter!! some of us can't manage to get a full page of responses !!!

:yikes:


----------



## deerhunter1989

Yamirider said:


> I DID READ THE FORUM. My point is that not just does and button bucks come to bait whether it be the UP or the lower. We hunt in Sanilac county and have killed quite a few bucks over 120" coming into bait when it was still legal. The oldest being 4.5 years old. And we are not just city slickers how can't kill deer without bait. Just like to use every legal method to tip the cards in our favor. Yes we have food plots and do our scouting homework. We just don't throw bait down and see what happens.:lol:


So what's you point?!?! Your not going to change my mind on baiting just because u have had success on it! Its my opinion and I hav the right to have one. I'm not the only person on this forum that agrees with what I have had to say. And you put in your time as a hunter soo obviously your gonna kill nice bucks.


----------



## deerhunter1989

6inchtrack said:


> Bait is a great tool for harvesting anterless deer.
> 
> If the horns are less than 3" then it's anterless.
> And I've read on here about 57,000 times that more anterless deer need to be killed.


Well in another forum I have participated in people think that there are too many does shot so that's another subject! Yah it's a great way to kill deer I get that! My point is That it's not necessary to bait just to harvest does lol and if that's how you think well there's another post on this forum that calls you lazy!


----------



## 6inchtrack

Well you are learning.
They don't sell doe tags.
They sell anterless tags.


----------



## Yamirider

deerhunter1989 said:


> can the mdnre get any more ignorant??? Cant you see that there are starting to be bigger bucks taken all over the state since baiting was banned! Why bring it back?? Just because a few city slickers cant shoot a deer every time the go to the woods?? Really the only thing you kill on a bait pile anyways are button bucks and doe fawns. So are you really helping out the deer herd? :rant:


 my point is you can kill more than just button bucks and doe fawns on a bait pile. Which in your post you stated thats all you can kill on bait. So there i spelled out my point do you get it now????


----------



## deerhunter1989

Yamirider said:


> my point is you can kill more than just button bucks and doe fawns on a bait pile. Which in your post you stated thats all you can kill on bait. So there i spelled out my point do you get it now????


Yes that was posted at the beginning and was talked about a lot during thus whole forum, which in turn everyone discussed this! So obviously you didn't read the forum because that thought was posted many times! So do you get my point?!?!?


----------



## deerhunter1989

6inchtrack said:


> Have you picked any of it up and got rid of it? Or do you just come here and whine about it.
> I was a baiter before the ban, and will be a baiter again after the ban.
> I have removed lots of garbage from the woods, a bathtub, a washer, two dryers, shingles, lots of trash, and some of it was probably from back in the depression. Oh and last year about $12.00 of cans
> 
> I won&#146;t pick up any tires any more, I can&#146;t get rid of them.
> [/COLOR]
> Maybe I'll bring that up to Rodney Stokes at the next "We are going to get to bait again meeting brought to you by the NRC".
> If I can take them to the district DNR office, I will haul the tires out also.




Yes I do pick it up!! And yes if I could dump the tires in the dnr parking lot I would pick those up too!


----------



## deerhunter1989

Putman Lake Campground said:


> Looki there guys!! for a 22 yo that started out with a whooping 8 posts he's netted 9 pages so far!!
> 
> Good showing deerhunter!! some of us can't manage to get a full page of responses !!!
> 
> :yikes:


Yes thank you! It started out a little ruff but there's a lot of great people on here that just posted their opinions and not a bunch of non sence about my age, IQ, and how I'm not a hunter! But if you read back there were a few people that totally agreed with things that I have said and backed up other things tht I posted! Like any other forum there's good and bad


----------



## Putman Lake Campground

[quote Originally Posted by *6inchtrack*  
Bait is a great tool for harvesting anterless deer.

If the horns are less than 3" then it's anterless.
And I've read on here about 57,000 times that more anterless deer need to be killed. [/quote]
​


deerhunter1989 said:


> well there's another post on this forum that calls you lazy!


This is getting good, I'm anxious to hear the response to this!!

Grab yer popcorn sit back and enjoy!!

are we approaching a lock?


----------



## ridgewalker

Who needs antihunters when we seem to be so eager to call each other names and to tell each other what to do. Deer hunting used to be a recreational activity where hunters enjoyed the outdoors, hunting for a challenging big game animal while spending time with family, friends, and neighbors. When did it come down to the low point of tearing each other apart so we can claim a victory in some undeclared competition by killing the animal with the largest amount of headgear?

Baiting or not in the years to come, it is still deer hunting and we are, for the better, deer hunters at least IMO.


----------



## Putman Lake Campground

ridgewalker said:


> Who needs antihunters when we seem to be so eager to call each other names and to tell each other what to do. Deer hunting used to be a recreational activity where hunters enjoyed the outdoors, hunting for a challenging big game animal while spending time with family, friends, and neighbors. When did it come down to the low point of tearing each other apart so we can claim a victory in some undeclared competition by killing the animal with the largest amount of headgear?
> 
> Baiting or not in the years to come, it is still deer hunting and we are, for the better, deer hunters at least IMO.


You forgot about the camaraderie that was shared while we hunted to feed our families, rather than merely sport.


----------



## Putman Lake Campground

Yamirider said:


> my point is you can kill more than just button bucks



Why do we call them bottom bucks? oops mis read that, but just the same why do we call bottom bucks bottom bucks? or is that somebody re naming button bucks?


----------



## Buck Wild!

HUBBHUNTER said:


> I'm betting the count is well past 2 by now.


 C'mon. Quit looking at his ass...


----------



## sbooy42




----------



## Putman Lake Campground

sbooy42 said:


>


What is left to be said


----------



## 6inchtrack

Omg


----------



## SPITFIRE

LMAO sbooy!! :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## captjimtc

I'm still laughing at the people calling other hunters lazy. Who really cares how people get deer as long as their as within the legal methods. What do you non-lazy hunters want? A cookie perhaps for not hunting over bait because you are god's gift to deer hunters. These people crack me up!! :lol:


----------



## sbooy42

..


----------



## tjstebb

Elk5012 said:


> Why is it that the people that don't use bait want the "baiters" to hunt like them, but then not one of the "baiters" are pressuring the non baiters to use bait? Seems to me that we don't give a crap how you hunt or how much time you get out and enjoy the woods scouting, let us enjoy our way of hunting too.


 
This is probably the best post on this matter.... Seems to me we don't give a crap how you hunt! 100% correct. I don't have one prolem with you guys planting bait plots or if you spend 100 hrs a week all summer scouting. I am out there to put food on my table to feed my family. There should not be a problem with my method or yours as long as we both follow the law.


tjstebb


----------



## johnhunter247

I use foodplots which is not much different than bait. I am using food to draw deer the same as a guy that does not have the private land to hunt or the equipment to plant. I am more worried about QDM and letting deer get a good age structure than how people hunt deer. Everybody is up in arms about crossbows and bait. Lets worry about QDM. Everybody has dreams of a bick buck even if your a meat hunter. If we pushed QDM and beat it into everybodies brain and stopped worrying about hunter tactics we could have just as good deer hunting as Iowa or Illinios. We have all the ingredients except age structure. That is where we as hunters come in. Hunting state land is not an excuse to shoot young deer. I hunt state land sometimes to and I have went some years without deer because I passed on young 8 points and 6 points. If we could get a majority of hunters to participate imagine what we could be hunting in about 2 to 3 years. Bait and crossbows aint so important as age structure.


----------



## sbooy42

johnhunter247 said:


> I use foodplots which is not much different than bait. I am using food to draw deer the same as a guy that does not have the private land to hunt or the equipment to plant. I am more worried about QDM and letting deer get a good age structure than how people hunt deer. Everybody is up in arms about crossbows and bait. Lets worry about QDM. Everybody has dreams of a bick buck even if your a meat hunter. If we pushed QDM and beat it into everybodies brain and stopped worrying about hunter tactics we could have just as good deer hunting as Iowa or Illinios. We have all the ingredients except age structure. That is where we as hunters come in. Hunting state land is not an excuse to shoot young deer. I hunt state land sometimes to and I have went some years without deer because I passed on young 8 points and 6 points. If we could get a majority of hunters to participate imagine what we could be hunting in about 2 to 3 years. Bait and crossbows aint so important as age structure.


Welcome.. 
sorry but you will be flamed for trying to strip others of the right of choice and pushing your values on them.....its the flavor of the month.


----------



## deerhunter1989

Well if the new people would read the entire forum instead of going on the first post everything would be fine! I have been open to everyones posts and a lot of baiters have had very good points that I looked over. So fr you to come after me again for the original post, your just digging yourself a hole.


----------



## Blueump

johnhunter247 said:


> Everybody has dreams of a bick buck even if your a meat hunter.


Not gonna flame you, but you are dead wrong! I have no such "dreams" of shooting a big antlered deer in Michigan. If its between antlers and putting meat on my table, I'll take the meat every time. Only one person I know here that eats antlers! :corkysm55

I'm not personally willing to sacrifice 2-3 years of no venison on my table so that YOU can shoot a big antlered buck. I hunt for the meat - whether it be a doe or a buck. I'll shoot a doe if it's legal where I hunt, or if one gives me a shot, but not everyplace in Michigan has a lot of deer right now - and where I call "home", even does are hard to find. Food on my table comes *first!* I have no guilt or regret for shooting spikes or forks. AR means nothing to me. QDM means nothing to me. Baiting means nothing to me. If it's legal - I will. What it boils down to it it's MY choice. I have the freedom to hunt MY way! I haven't baited since it became illegal. If it comes back, I may or may not bait - but that's MY decision.

I don't force you to drive the same kind of car I drive. Sure, mine may get better gas mileage, be better for the environment, and even built in Michigan, but again...It's YOUR choice what you want to drive.

Please don't try to force me to hunt the way YOU hunt. I don't try to force you to hunt MY way! Let's all just support each other in hunting legally.


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## sbooy42

Blueump said:


> Not gonna flame you, but you are dead wrong! I have no such "dreams" of shooting a big antlered deer in Michigan. If its between antlers and putting meat on my table, I'll take the meat every time. Only one person I know here that eats antlers! :corkysm55
> 
> .


Not saying you should hunt any particular way and theres nothing wrong with putting food on the table via a spike... But come on you dont dream of a nice rack on Nov 14th or daydream of a beautiful buck walking down that trail while on stand???.... Even though many make it sound like a bad thing it really isnt


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## Blueump

sbooy42 said:


> Not saying you should hunt any particular way and theres nothing wrong with putting food on the table via a spike... But come on you dont dream of a nice rack on Nov 14th or daydream of a beautiful buck walking down that trail while on stand???.... Even though many make it sound like a bad thing it really isnt


No, I really don't. I am a realist. I hunt for the meat...period.

Do you envision a 5 lb. squirrel when you hunt squirrels? Do you dream about shooting a 3 lb. rough grouse? Do you daydream of rabbits with HUGE feet? I don't either...when I hunt those, its for the meat.

Sorry,when I deer hunt I just go for the steaks! :lol: When I choose a deer out of a group to shoot, what's on its head is the least of my concerns...I wanna know how much burger I'm gonna go home with.

_If I ever get to the place that I want to shoot something just for the antlers, then my whole purpose of hunting has changed, and I won't be looking at Michigan for THAT hunt!_


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## sbooy42

Blueump said:


> _If I ever get to the place that I want to shoot something just for the antlers, then my whole purpose of hunting has changed, and I won't be looking at Michigan for THAT hunt!_


 Thats a good realist statement

I see you dont fish for meat...well I do fish for meat and have to follow size limit rules. But I'm guessing your OK with that because then you can show that trophy off in your avatar while I go meatless... or maybe I should become a better fisherman...

Just fun'n with ya


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## Michihunter

sbooy42 said:


> Thats a good realist statement
> 
> I see you dont fish for meat...well I do fish for meat and have to follow size limit rules. But I'm guessing your OK with that because then you can show that trophy off in your avatar while I go meatless... or maybe I should become a better fisherman...
> 
> Just fun'n with ya


Whatever the case might be with the fish in his avatar, I'll bet he used bait to get it!!


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## sbooy42

Michihunter said:


> Whatever the case might be with the fish in his avatar, I'll bet he used bait to get it!!


 :lol::lol:


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## Get Out

Blueump said:


> No, I really don't. I am a realist. I hunt for the meat...period.
> 
> Do you envision a 5 lb. squirrel when you hunt squirrels? Do you dream about shooting a 3 lb. rough grouse? Do you daydream of rabbits with HUGE feet? I don't either...when I hunt those, its for the meat.
> 
> Sorry,when I deer hunt I just go for the steaks! :lol: When I choose a deer out of a group to shoot, what's on its head is the least of my concerns...I wanna know how much burger I'm gonna go home with.
> 
> _If I ever get to the place that I want to shoot something just for the antlers, then my whole purpose of hunting has changed, and I won't be looking at Michigan for THAT hunt!_


So just so I have this straight. This fall if you have two bucks walk in at the same time (like that would ever happen in MI but lets pretend) and one of them is a 140 class 10 point (stop laughing it could happen) and the other is a spike. But the spike weighs 15 more lbs and will be no doubt better eating you are going to shoot the spike right? Don't get me wrong I hunt to put meat on the table too (especially in Lake County) but if I have that scenrio happen to me the 10 point is going down. I am not putting you down just interested in your thoughts.


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## Blueump

sbooy42 said:


> Thats a good realist statement
> 
> I see you dont fish for meat...well I do fish for meat and have to follow size limit rules. But I'm guessing your OK with that because then you can show that trophy off in your avatar while I go meatless... or maybe I should become a better fisherman...
> 
> Just fun'n with ya


LOL! No, ironically I actually *DONT* fish for meat! :lol: I pursue salmon, pike, bass, and walleyes but I usually always live release or give them away to others. I don't eat much fish. The fish I'm holding was released...and YES I used bait! 

Personally I don't think anybody should be able to use bait when they fish because those that do are lazy and unsportsmanlike. Tricking those fish to bite a hook by using bait is unethical!  Imagine the size of the fish we could have in Michigan if we banned baiting, enforced QFM (quality fish management) and had SR (scale restrictions)! :corkysm55


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## cmark

deerhunter1989 said:


> Well if the new people would read the entire forum instead of going on the first post everything would be fine! I have been open to everyones posts and a lot of baiters have had very good points that I looked over. So fr you to come after me again for the original post, your just digging yourself a hole.


I have contributed to this thread (which I rarely do - even if my ire is up) from it's beginning and I have to disagree with you. IMO , based on this thread and your responses in some other threads, there has indeed been a hole dug and you are standing in front of it with a big ole shovel with no one for miles around.

I claim neither the wisdom nor the credentials to participate in many of these threads which I find quite informative and enjoyable. However I do have enough grey in my beard to understand that sometimes you are most successful in your endeavors when you admittedly dry the backs of your ears and work on streamlining your delivery.

Don't Tread On Me.

Coach Mark


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## Blueump

Get Out said:


> So just so I have this straight. This fall if you have two bucks walk in at the same time (like that would ever happen in MI but lets pretend) and one of them is a 140 class 10 point (stop laughing it could happen) and the other is a spike. But the spike weighs 15 more lbs and will be no doubt better eating you are going to shoot the spike right? Don't get me wrong I hunt to put meat on the table too (especially in Lake County) but if I have that scenrio happen to me the 10 point is going down. I am not putting you down just interested in your thoughts.


Body size. Period. That's the just way I hunt. The spike is going down if he is bigger. Usually however the bigger antlers will transfer to body size - but I took a 5 point over a doe this past season, because of body size. If the doe was bigger, she was going down and he would have walked, his bad luck. That again is just me and my personal hunting philosophy. A trophy in my book is a big deer - body wise.

*Then again, if two bucks walked out together in Lake County..You'd better call my cardiologist and 911!*


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## sbooy42

Blueump said:


> LOL! No, ironically I actually *DONT* fish for meat! :lol: I pursue salmon, pike, bass, and walleyes but I usually always live release or give them away to others. I don't eat much fish. The eye I'm holding was released...and YES I used bait!
> 
> Personally I don't think anybody should be able to use bait when they fish because those that do are lazy and unsportsmanlike. Tricking those fish to bite a hook by using bait is unethical!  Imagine the size of the fish we could have in Michigan if we banned baiting, enforced QFM (quality fish management) and had SR (scale restrictions)! :corkysm55


:lol::lol:... SR QFM

WTH?? You dont keep the eyes... now I know your BS'n


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## MERGANZER

Blueump said:


> Body size. Period. That's the just way I hunt. The spike is going down if he is bigger. Usually however the bigger antlers will transfer to body size - but I took a 5 point over a doe this past season, because of body size. If the doe was bigger, she was going down and he would have walked, his bad luck. That again is just me and my personal hunting philosophy. A trophy in my book is a big deer - body wise.
> 
> *Then again, if two bucks walked out together in Lake County..You'd better call my cardiologist and 911!*


 

Okay no offense but I am calling BS!!!!! Loud and clear.

Ganzer


----------



## Blueump

sbooy42 said:


> :lol::lol:... SR QFM
> 
> WTH?? You dont keep the eyes... now I know your BS'n


I'm ashamed to admit it, but I don't even take the eyes home. It is the one fish (besides perch) that I love to eat. My family however can't even stand the smell, so I usually give them (the eaters) away as well. The bigger ones go back.



MERGANZER said:


> Okay no offense but I am calling BS!!!!! Loud and clear.
> Ganzer


Go ahead and call. I've never been in that situation (_remember, I'm from *Lake County*!_ ) so I've never had the choice to make. Till then, if it's bigger, I'll pull the trigger! If it can brown, it's down! If it's a steak, I'll bake!


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## Get Out

Blueump said:


> Body size. Period. That's the just way I hunt. The spike is going down if he is bigger. Usually however the bigger antlers will transfer to body size - but I took a 5 point over a doe this past season, because of body size. If the doe was bigger, she was going down and he would have walked, his bad luck. That again is just me and my personal hunting philosophy. A trophy in my book is a big deer - body wise.
> 
> *Then again, if two bucks walked out together in Lake County..You'd better call my cardiologist and 911!*


Ok I can respect that if that is how you roll. I will pray for fat does to walk out infront of you and the wirey ten points to walk out in front of me!


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## deerhunter1989

cmark said:


> I have contributed to this thread (which I rarely do - even if my ire is up) from it's beginning and I have to disagree with you. IMO , based on this thread and your responses in some other threads, there has indeed been a hole dug and you are standing in front of it with a big ole shovel with no one for miles around.
> 
> I claim neither the wisdom nor the credentials to participate in many of these threads which I find quite informative and enjoyable. However I do have enough grey in my beard to understand that sometimes you are most successful in your endeavors when you admittedly dry the backs of your ears and work on streamlining your delivery.
> 
> Don't Tread On Me.
> 
> Coach Mark


Yes i agree in the beginning i dug myself a hole and got off on the wrong foot! But with all the informative opinions i would say i have changed just a little. No i dont like baiting and thats my opinoin, but i can see where some people are coming from with their stand on baiting. its not like ive have just told everyone that all their opinions are wrong because i have agreed with them on some points. So the beginning yes a huge giant hole but i think now its just a mire pot hole


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## johnhunter247

I am not dead wrong. I practice QDM and I still put meat on the table. I just shoot mature deer doing it weather it be doe or buck. I believe if you shoot a buck weather it be a button buck or a ten you should have to use your buck tag. I use to be you and I was talked into just trying it and I could not believe the difference in quality as well as quantity. Now I rarely go without seeing deer. I am not getting down on you but just maybe the reason deer are hard to come by in your area is because there are to many people with your beliefs hunting your area. Take kids hunting


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## deerhunter1989

johnhunter247 said:


> I am not dead wrong. I practice QDM and I still put meat on the table. I just shoot mature deer doing it weather it be doe or buck. I believe if you shoot a buck weather it be a button buck or a ten you should have to use your buck tag. I use to be you and I was talked into just trying it and I could not believe the difference in quality as well as quantity. Now I rarely go without seeing deer. I am not getting down on you but just maybe the reason deer are hard to come by in your area is because there are to many people with your beliefs hunting your area. Take kids hunting


 
here here to that!!!


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## johnhunter247

But I do believe a trophy is whatever gets your adrenalin pumping and puts a smile on your face. It does not hurt though to put a nice buck on the ground with a compound bow.


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## lostontheice

If you dont mind my .02 on this..i see no difference between a bait stand that a hunter brings into the woods and a corn/beet/bean field..if someone wants to bait,so be it..personaly i used to bait for bow season..and make sure the bait was gone by rifle.The only reason for baiting for bow was to have the deer in a range that i know i can make a clean shot,and two...to get a better look at the deer befor i shot..im not a bambi buster and im not a big buck hunter...im a meat hunter..i prefer does over buck anyday..and have let more than my share walk to get a shot at a nice mature dry doe...just my .02...to each there own..


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## deerhunter1989

lostontheice said:


> If you dont mind my .02 on this..i see no difference between a bait stand that a hunter brings into the woods and a corn/beet/bean field..if someone wants to bait,so be it..personaly i used to bait for bow season..and make sure the bait was gone by rifle.The only reason for baiting for bow was to have the deer in a range that i know i can make a clean shot,and two...to get a better look at the deer befor i shot..im not a bambi buster and im not a big buck hunter...im a meat hunter..i prefer does over buck anyday..and have let more than my share walk to get a shot at a nice mature dry doe...just my .02...to each there own..


Thanks for the .02  that's where I am it's banned now and if it's lifted so be it too. I'm not a baiter myself but that's my choice too


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## gonorth

I don't care who baits and who does'nt. There's guys here that say they need bait to get there kids into hunting. I say you must have started them to late. 
I started hunting because my dad was a bird hunter. I walked without a gun for years. To this day my dad does'nt deer hunt. But I do.
Bird hunting is more walking then sitting. So I was never borred. Just my 2 cents.


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## Putman Lake Campground

johnhunter247 said:


> I am not dead wrong. I practice QDM and I still put meat on the table. I just shoot mature deer doing it weather it be doe or buck. I believe if you shoot a buck weather it be a button buck or a ten you should have to use your buck tag. I use to be you and I was talked into just trying it and I could not believe the difference in quality as well as quantity. Now I rarely go without seeing deer.



I've asked in different ways in different threads to be educated on QDM to no avail.. I"m picking up a little here and a little there.

But. You just struck an interesting note that I';ve not yet heard said or insinuated from QDM folks.

how has practicing qdm increased both quality and quantity? Please educate us.. this is truly question.

I think i know the answer based on my own practices. but I would like to hear it from others, etc.


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## deerhunter1989

gonorth said:


> I don't care who baits and who does'nt. There's guys here that say they need bait to get there kids into hunting. I say you must have started them to late.
> I started hunting because my dad was a bird hunter. I walked without a gun for years. To this day my dad does'nt deer hunt. But I do.
> Bird hunting is more walking then sitting. So I was never borred. Just my 2 cents.


i never bird hunted but i did go with my dad to sit on run ways and stand in tree limbs at a young age without a weapon waiting for a deer. He did bait a few times but i think i had more intisipation waiting for a deer to come down the runway hince the fact thats how i hunt to this day. What people dont get is im not bashing anyone for baiting....i did in the beginning but have looked passed a lot of things now. GREAT POST THOUGH, THATS MY .02 :lol:


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## deerhunter1989

And it seems like there are a lot of guys that are new to the forum that agree with things i have said.......:d:d:d:d


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## sbooy42

Yes its nice to see some new names and opinions


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## deerhunter1989

sbooy42 said:


> Yes its nice to see some new names and opinions


 for sure


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## HTC

deerhunter1989 said:


> it just seems like since the baiting hasnt been "legal" there has been more bucks around the area! i passed up 20 small bucks last season and i have never seen that many bucks. i also seen 3 quality bucks something around the 120 range.


I don't think you're giving yourself enough credit. Maybe your increased sightings have nothing to do with the baiting ban. Maybe at the ripe old age of 22 you are becoming a better hunter than you were 3 years ago. Lets face it, you have more experience today than you did 3 years ago, I bet you are putting all that experience to good use and your frequent buck sightings are the fruits of your god given talents and totally unrelated to the baiting ban....Dude, you got skills, quit being so modest.:coolgleam


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## SPH

gonorth said:


> I don't care who baits and who does'nt. There's guys here that say they need bait to get there kids into hunting. I say you must have started them to late.
> I started hunting because my dad was a bird hunter. I walked without a gun for years. To this day my dad does'nt deer hunt. But I do.
> Bird hunting is more walking then sitting. So I was never borred. Just my 2 cents.


Do you have kids who get excited about sitting in a deer blind for a week to look at trees? I have 4 boys who have all been in the woods since they were old enough to walk, **** hunting, deer hunting and small game hunting. Every single one of them will pass on sitting in a deer blind to see 1 doe walk by in a week. Your theory has some holes in it!!!


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## Blueump

SPH said:


> Do you have kids who get excited about sitting in a deer blind for a week to look at trees? I have 4 boys who have all been in the woods since they were old enough to walk, **** hunting, deer hunting and small game hunting. Every single one of them will pass on sitting in a deer blind to see 1 doe walk by in a week. Your theory has some holes in it!!!




Maybe that exact theory is one of the reasons that Michigan ranks dead last of all the states in hunter recruitment!


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## Bambicidal Maniac

Putman Lake Campground said:


> how has practicing qdm increased both quality and quantity? Please educate us.. this is truly question.
> 
> I think i know the answer based on my own practices. but I would like to hear it from others, etc.


I'm not the guy you asked this question of, but I'll give you my $.02.

You can see more older bucks by reducing doe numbers for several reasons.

1.) Before the prerut, bucks just don't like hanging around with a lot of does. The does are eating all the things the bucks might be interested and bedding and peeing all over the place. It's just irritating. It causes the bucks to range further than they want to in order to get food and this means more of them get hit by cars.

2.) During the prerut, when there are fewer does around due to QDM, the bucks are more active because the need to establish dominance is greater. So you see more bucks and if you've refrained from shooting all the little immature bucks, the importance of age is greater to the does and the bucks, because when the does see big antlers, they they know what they're missing if they let themselves be bred by little bucks.

3. ) During the rut, when the buck-to-doe ratio is larger, there will be substantially more buck movement and for greater distances. Some will get hit by cars, but that will be offset by fewer losses to cars during the rest of the year.

4.) When you shoot mature does that have button buck fawns, those fawns won't be run out of their mother's territory just prior to the next rut, which means they will be less likely to be hit by cars or shot by weekenders because they will be less likely to be in unfamiliar territory during their yearling rut.

So as a result of all of the above, buck age structure is improved and yearling buck mortality is decreased. Nutrition variety can also be improved in places where doe numbers would have been high enough to overbrowse.


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## sbooy42

SPH said:


> Do you have kids who get excited about sitting in a deer blind for a week to look at trees? I have 4 boys who have all been in the woods since they were old enough to walk, **** hunting, deer hunting and small game hunting. Every single one of them will pass on sitting in a deer blind to see 1 doe walk by in a week. Your theory has some holes in it!!!


 My 5 yr old has gone the last couple yrs and we see a few deer but I think he goes more to hang out with dad and grandpa... makes him feel big..

But I know he gets bored and that's exactly why I am getting into waterfowl this year.

This year we'll see how our middle kid likes it..hes already bug'n to go turkey hunting


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## deerhunter1989

HTC said:


> I don't think you're giving yourself enough credit. Maybe your increased sightings have nothing to do with the baiting ban. Maybe at the ripe old age of 22 you are becoming a better hunter than you were 3 years ago. Lets face it, you have more experience today than you did 3 years ago, I bet you are putting all that experience to good use and your frequent buck sightings are the fruits of your god given talents and totally unrelated to the baiting ban....Dude, you got skills, quit being so modest.:coolgleam


 
haha


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## lostontheice

i dont believe its a matter to bait or not to bait...but more of your choice or no choice...to make baiting illeagal,is just one more choice that you lost,and one more open door to more choices they can take from you...whats next..single shot shot guns only,or no rifle hunting,or even no hunting all together..instead of asking how something affects you...try to ask yourself..how will this affect the rest of the sportsman..and the sportsman of the furture...for those that have kids,its there furture that we are working on today...


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## TOOTALL

I dont know what you want to call the management plan they have in place for Presque Isle County, but they have decimated the herd. We dont see 1/10th of the deer we used to see in the 80's and early 90's. I think we have more coyote than whitetail now. I never have baited, but honestly dont care if others choose to do so. I dont know what the answer is, but something needs to change.


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## johnhunter247

Around 2000 I started letting young deer walk instead of shooting the first buck or doe I see. It was frustrating at first but when I was in my second year in early November I arrowed my first nice buck and from there I was hooked. I started planting foodplots and in 2004 I started using trail cameras. I have noticed over the years the bucks are getting bigger and bigger. Sometimes I get deer on camera that make me loose sleep. My strategy is to be there. I always have it in my mind that hes going to show up and I wont be there. You have to have a forgiving wife that understands your passion. I am lucky I have one of those. But before I was passing on young deer and only shooting mature deer (buck or doe) my deer sightings were way down. Now a majority of neighbors are doing the same thing and we are blessed with more of a mature herd. I still have a few neighbors that light the place up on opening day but theres nothing you can do about that to each his own. That neighbor just reaps the benefits of our work. I can not remember the last time I sat in a treestand and saw no deer. Just one of the many benefits of practicing QDM. I here guys all the time complaining about no deer. It may not hold true for everybody but a majority of them believe a saying I hate (brown is down). One thing you have to beat into your brain if you practice QDM is THEY CANT GET THEM ALL! So if your contemplating QDM talk it over with your neighbors because unless you own a rediculous amount of land it takes a few to get started and you will be amazed how it can grow once everyone starts reaping the benefits of more deer and a better age class. Once you get that first mature buck walking towards your treestand and your heart is jumping out of your chest it is hard not to be hooked.


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## doogie mac

johnhunter247 said:


> Around 2000 I started letting young deer walk instead of shooting the first buck or doe I see. It was frustrating at first but when I was in my second year in early November I arrowed my first nice buck and from there I was hooked. I started planting foodplots and in 2004 I started using trail cameras. I have noticed over the years the bucks are getting bigger and bigger. Sometimes I get deer on camera that make me loose sleep. My strategy is to be there. I always have it in my mind that hes going to show up and I wont be there. You have to have a forgiving wife that understands your passion. I am lucky I have one of those. But before I was passing on young deer and only shooting mature deer (buck or doe) my deer sightings were way down. Now a majority of neighbors are doing the same thing and we are blessed with more of a mature herd. I still have a few neighbors that light the place up on opening day but theres nothing you can do about that to each his own. That neighbor just reaps the benefits of our work. I can not remember the last time I sat in a treestand and saw no deer. Just one of the many benefits of practicing QDM. I here guys all the time complaining about no deer. It may not hold true for everybody but a majority of them believe a saying I hate (brown is down). One thing you have to beat into your brain if you practice QDM is THEY CANT GET THEM ALL! So if your contemplating QDM talk it over with your neighbors because unless you own a rediculous amount of land it takes a few to get started and you will be amazed how it can grow once everyone starts reaping the benefits of more deer and a better age class. Once you get that first mature buck walking towards your treestand and your heart is jumping out of your chest it is hard not to be hooked.


 I dont bait,nor do i have a thing against it. But I very much agree with what johnhunter says ! We all could stand a little QDM. But if a fella wants to sit over a pile of bait,what right do I have to ridicule his/her methods?


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## Justin

lostontheice said:


> i dont believe its a matter to bait or not to bait...but more of your choice or no choice...to make baiting illeagal,is just one more choice that you lost,and one more open door to more choices they can take from you...whats next..single shot shot guns only,or no rifle hunting,or even no hunting all together..instead of asking how something affects you...try to ask yourself..how will this affect the rest of the sportsman..and the sportsman of the furture...for those that have kids,its there furture that we are working on today...


Nice post. This is the way I look at things as well.


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## boone nc

I have seen allot good debates and comments on this rant and also some negative not very smart ones. First off you cannot "down" someones opinion but only hope/help them change there mind if they really are wrong. 

I personally miss not being able to have a bait pile and in my area I dont think it has changed anything but the number of deer I have seen (less). I am not saying I always hunted over the bait but being able to have a baiting spot just gave me another tool in my belt. When all else failed I new i had a decent chance at the bait when I wasnt seeing any deer any where else.

I also agree with bait piles helping when you are taking kids afield. Any chance you have to increase your odds of seeing deer when you have youngsters is good IMO.

I think the real problem is hunters ways. Out of the hundreds of acres around my house the people that constantly see deer are the people that take care while entering/exiting there stand/blind, take caution with the wind, stay out of the areas where deer are and have minimal impact on the animals patterns unless of course Mr. Big steps out or a doe they want to put in there freezer.

Bait pile or not makes no difference if you are careless on how you hunt. You not only ruin seeing deer for yourself but also it impacts your neighbors hunts as well. Take more precautions see more deer, end of story.

Unless there is scientific proof that baiting hurts the deer population it should not be even an argument! There are allot of other things out there hunters should be protecting and arguing about. The baiting topic is NOT this big of an issue.

I say save our energy/resources/money for something that helps MI deer hunting and the recruitment of hunters.


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## doogie mac

boone nc said:


> I have seen allot good debates and comments on this rant and also some negative not very smart ones. First off you cannot "down" someones opinion but only hope/help them change there mind if they really are wrong.
> 
> I personally miss not being able to have a bait pile and in my area I dont think it has changed anything but the number of deer I have seen (less). I am not saying I always hunted over the bait but being able to have a baiting spot just gave me another tool in my belt. When all else failed I new i had a decent chance at the bait when I wasnt seeing any deer any where else.
> 
> I also agree with bait piles helping when you are taking kids afield. Any chance you have to increase your odds of seeing deer when you have youngsters is good IMO.
> 
> I think the real problem is hunters ways. Out of the hundreds of acres around my house the people that constantly see deer are the people that take care while entering/exiting there stand/blind, take caution with the wind, stay out of the areas where deer are and have minimal impact on the animals patterns unless of course Mr. Big steps out or a doe they want to put in there freezer.
> 
> Bait pile or not makes no difference if you are careless on how you hunt. You not only ruin seeing deer for yourself but also it impacts your neighbors hunts as well. Take more precautions see more deer, end of story.
> 
> Unless there is scientific proof that baiting hurts the deer population it should not be even an argument! There are allot of other things out there hunters should be protecting and arguing about. The baiting topic is NOT this big of an issue.
> 
> I say save our energy/resources/money for something that helps MI deer hunting and the recruitment of hunters.


 very well said!


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## 12970

The ban is just a very small part if any of why you are seeing bigger bucks, the fewer deer because of some of the antlerless permits given have helped in some areas but have also hurt when they have left them open and too many too long.It has not been long enough to have the cause / effect on the having more bigger bucks. If it was 5 years or longer it might have more to do with it but only 2 years now can't change it. Also the fact that some areas have fewer hunters since some are dropping out because of the lack of deer being seen as well as the lack of bucks. Just what I have seen I had a great place to hunt with bucks, does & fawns then it all change the last 4 years only fawns and last year no deer seen at all. So the cause and effect you suggest has nothing to do with the ban on baiting to early to make much of a change on bigger bucks.

Newaygo1


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## deerhunter1989

Newaygo1 said:


> The ban is just a very small part if any of why you are seeing bigger bucks, the fewer deer because of some of the antlerless permits given have helped in some areas but have also hurt when they have left them open and too many too long.It has not been long enough to have the cause / effect on the having more bigger bucks. If it was 5 years or longer it might have more to do with it but only 2 years now can't change it. Also the fact that some areas have fewer hunters since some are dropping out because of the lack of deer being seen as well as the lack of bucks. Just what I have seen I had a great place to hunt with bucks, does & fawns then it all change the last 4 years only fawns and last year no deer seen at all. So the cause and effect you suggest has nothing to do with the ban on baiting to early to make much of a change on bigger bucks.
> 
> Newaygo1


Well I'm sure not as many deer were shot the past two years! And those button bucks that didn't get shot two years ago are now 2.5 years old putting them at a pretty nice buck!


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## Blueump

yibanbana said:


> Shoot a deer when you meat. Why shoot the next generation of the dollar? Can the difference between a male and a female deer? Button!


 
HUH???

Dude, St. Patrick's Day was last week!:corkysm55


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## William H Bonney

Blueump said:


> HUH???


1:50 am = Last Call

2:15 am = Stumble out of bar (with one for the road)

2:45 am = Crash through bedroom window (lost his house keys)

3:04 am = Stuff face with leftover corned beef and cabbage

3:47 am = Log on to MS.com and start WHACKING AWAY AT THE KEYBOARD!! :lol:


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## sbooy42

William H Bonney said:


> 1:50 am = Last Call
> 
> 2:15 am = Stumble out of bar (with one for the road)
> 
> 2:45 am = Crash through bedroom window (lost his house keys)
> 
> 3:04 am = Stuff face with leftover corned beef and cabbage
> 
> 3:47 am = Log on to MS.com and start WHACKING AWAY AT THE KEYBOARD!! :lol:


WOW whacking at the keyboard at 3:47am to MS.....sad...

Brings that Kermit post to mind though:lol:


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## bowonly

lostontheice said:


> i dont believe its a matter to bait or not to bait...but more of your choice or no choice...to make baiting illeagal,is just one more choice that you lost,and one more open door to more choices they can take from you...whats next..single shot shot guns only,or no rifle hunting,or even no hunting all together..instead of asking how something affects you...try to ask yourself..how will this affect the rest of the sportsman..and the sportsman of the furture...for those that have kids,its there furture that we are working on today...


 
Dude you miss the point, its not about choices, personal preferences and its not about how it affects other hunters or whether more fawns or small bucks get shot over them! Does baiting provide any value to our deer herd? Does it increase reproduction, size and health of our deer herd? What does baiting do for the deer herd? I say nothing and pray it never comes back!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So now take yourself out of the equation and ask yourself what is in it for the deer herd? BECAUSE ULTIMATELY THATS WHAT WERE CONCERNED ABOUT, RIGHT!


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## Michihunter

bowonly said:


> Dude you miss the point, its not about choices, personal preferences and its not about how it affects other hunters or whether more fawns or small bucks get shot over them! Does baiting provide any value to our deer herd? Does it increase reproduction, size and health of our deer herd? What does baiting do for the deer herd? I say nothing and pray it never comes back!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So now take yourself out of the equation and ask yourself what is in it for the deer herd? BECAUSE ULTIMATELY THATS WHAT WERE CONCERNED ABOUT, RIGHT!


Baiting does for the herd the exact same thing compound bows, rifles, camo, and hunting does for the herd. In fact, it may provide the latter with a bit more efficiency so as to help the state control the herds better. Is it necessary? Nope. But neither is a compound bow, a rifle, or camoflauge. They just make the hunt more efficient for some.


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## deerhunter1989

Michihunter said:


> Baiting does for the herd the exact same thing compound bows, rifles, camo, and hunting does for the herd. In fact, it may provide the latter with a bit more efficiency so as to help the state control the herds better. Is it necessary? Nope. But neither is a compound bow, a rifle, or camoflauge. They just make the hunt more efficient for some.


IMO, the state doesnt know how many deer we have to begin with let alone how many deer get shot off every year! Over bait or not! If they were smart they would have some kinda metal tag system like i have experinced in wisconsin and ohio. If a deer buck or doe doesnt have a metal tag within a couple days of shooting it and the dnr stops you, your in big trouble. Its not like you have to go to the dnr to get the tag either. Most of the gas stations had the metal tags and took a picture of the deer. Then they would know a lot more about the deer herd! Yes i try and help with taking them and getting a patch every year but i know not everyone does that!


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## Michihunter

deerhunter1989 said:


> IMO, the state doesnt know how many deer we have to begin with let alone how many deer get shot off every year! Over bait or not! If they were smart they would have some kinda metal tag system like i have experinced in wisconsin and ohio. If a deer buck or doe doesnt have a metal tag within a couple days of shooting it and the dnr stops you, your in big trouble. Its not like you have to go to the dnr to get the tag either. Most of the gas stations had the metal tags and took a picture of the deer. Then they would know a lot more about the deer herd! Yes i try and help with taking them and getting a patch every year but i know not everyone does that!


Oddly enough, the deer I take are normally skinned and butchered LOOOOONNNNGGGGG before any metal tag would be observed by anyone other than my friends or family. I'd suspect the same is true in WI and OH where non compliance is an unknown factor in determining anything with 100% accuracy.


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## deerhunter1989

Michihunter said:


> Oddly enough, the deer I take are normally skinned and butchered LOOOOONNNNGGGGG before any metal tag would be observed by anyone other than my friends or family. I'd suspect the same is true in WI and OH where non compliance is an unknown factor in determining anything with 100% accuracy.


There's nothing 100% when it comes to managing a deer herd because you have the people that poach and will weather there are metal tags or not


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## bowonly

Michihunter said:


> Baiting does for the herd the exact same thing compound bows, rifles, camo, and hunting does for the herd. In fact, it may provide the latter with a bit more efficiency so as to help the state control the herds better. Is it necessary? Nope. But neither is a compound bow, a rifle, or camoflauge. They just make the hunt more efficient for some.


 
Baiting helps manage the deer herd more efficiently. LOL :lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Michihunter

bowonly said:


> Baiting helps manage the deer herd more efficiently. LOL :lol::lol::lol::lol:


I guess you haven't heard that one of the tools used by hired snipers in these urban population control hunts is- BAIT!! Ever ask yourself why?:16suspect

BTW- Here's what PA says on the subject


> Strategy 1.1.3 of the Urban Deer Management Strategy calls for the use of regulated baiting to increase hunter harvest in developed wildlife management units. In 2004, the Legislature authorized the Commission to regulate the use of bait for deer removal in special regulations areas in southeastern Pennsylvania. While traditional hunting, that is, hunting without bait, is the most economical way to manage deer populations, by allowing the use of bait while hunting there is a potential to increase harvest, hunter success and hunter opportunity in developed areas. Providing this tool in the most developed areas will be beneficial to hunters, urban residents and the Commission's deer management program. Therefore, the Commission amended § 141.1 to permit hunters to use or take advantage of bait while hunting deer within the southeast special regulations area of this Commonwealth.


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## gonorth

I don't care who baits and who does'nt. To make everyone a little happy. What about if bait is legal. To only allow doe to be shot over it. I know, how would you inforce it? You can't. It would have to be left to the hunter to obey the rules like we hope all hunters do. This is just a far out thought.
Another question for non baiters like myself. I would like to hunt the nothern U.P. some day. I have heard and seen first hand that an effective way to kill a really big deer up there is to bait. Not sure I want to do that, but what do you think? I know of a camp that gets a big deer every few years this way. Also read in magazines that it's the prefered technique up there for taking trophy deer.


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## hunting man

Michihunter said:


> Oddly enough, the deer I take are normally skinned and butchered LOOOOONNNNGGGGG before any metal tag would be observed by anyone other than my friends or family. I'd suspect the same is true in WI and OH where non compliance is an unknown factor in determining anything with 100% accuracy.


 rThe Ohio fish and game department would like to have our style.


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## gonorth

SPH said:


> Do you have kids who get excited about sitting in a deer blind for a week to look at trees? I have 4 boys who have all been in the woods since they were old enough to walk, **** hunting, deer hunting and small game hunting. Every single one of them will pass on sitting in a deer blind to see 1 doe walk by in a week. Your theory has some holes in it!!!


 
I got sick of the same thing. That's why I hunt Gladwin county instead of Mackinaw county. Try changing areas maybe. Went from barely seeing one to killing two a year. Without bait.


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## droppin lines

gonorth said:


> I got sick of the same thing. That's why I hunt Gladwin county instead of Mackinaw county. Try changing areas maybe. Went from barely seeing one to killing two a year. Without bait.



Any one that puts their time in should kill a deer or two in high density areas. I fail to see your point between baiting and hunting location!
I also hunt in Gladwin county and see tons of deer every year with out bait, in the corn and winter wheat fields.


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