# Fishing streamers



## Jfish (Sep 22, 2010)

Something that I haven't done is fish streamers. I just bought some sink tip line that attaches to my floating line. Something Orvis had.

My idea was just to cast it with a regular leader/tippet and just strip in.

Should I let it sink first?
Should I cast upstream or downstream?
Should I be using the standard tippet/leader?

TIA


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## Bull Market (Mar 12, 2005)

I don't want to be the one to burst your bubble, but . . . if you spend the $65 and get a SA Streamer Express 200 grain sink tip line, you'll enjoy yourself a WHOLE lot more. Trust me. 
Use a short leader, cast across stream (sligltly down) into dark water. Throw a belly of fly line downstream to get the streamer moving down and across. Give it a twitch every couple seconds, and voila! You're in business.
Here's short article to explain: http://wolverineflyfishingjournal.com/content/reasonable-trade

Next time you post, show us the photos!


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## Jfish (Sep 22, 2010)

I read the article. It sounds like a great way to produce some nice fish.

Now after you get your 4 or 5 feet of extra line out downstream and the streamers are straight with the line downstream, is that when you give it the 2 or 3 inch twitch?

Then, are you not bringing in the line to make another cast until your line is straight downstream? 

I apologize for all the questions but I just want to get this right! I'll probably have some more!


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## Bull Market (Mar 12, 2005)

You apply the "twitches" while the streamer is swinging throughout the arc . . . giving the streamer a little "life" like a darting minnow, or whatever. 

Mostly, I apply the twitches (or pulses) as a very short (but very quick) 2 or 3 inch strip with my left hand (I'm a right-hander). Remember to keep the fly line under your index finger of the rod hand, so you can tighten up immediately when you get a hit. 

Consequently, you are, in fact, shortening up on the line that is "out" during the retrieve. After the line is dangling straight downstream, you make have to strip in a little bit more to make your next cast.

If I'm working very narrow water, I won't using the 2-inch strip method. Instead, I'll just use my rod tip to make the pulsing action. In narrow water, I don't want to work the fly back to me too close. 

Wade down the river looking for dark water. Sure you can catch small fish in the shallow riffles, but that doesn't get me the TUG I'm looking for. Focus on undercut banks, deeper (dark) runs, and the heads and tailouts of dark slow pools. One or two casts, then move one or two steps downstream, until you've worked through the "hot spot". If there's an aggressive/feeding fish there, he'll grab it. There is no need to pound the water in one spot over and over and over. Keep moving downstream.


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## Jfish (Sep 22, 2010)

I appreciate the insight here! Now I have to decide what type of leader I'm going to make up. It seems that the leader in that article may be a little overkill?


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## Bull Market (Mar 12, 2005)

Just keep it short. When I'm pitching larger (single) streamers, I keep it to 36 inches tops. When tossing tanden smaller streamers 4 feet to 5 feet long seems to work real well.

Keep us posted on your results when you finally make it out.


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## Jfish (Sep 22, 2010)

You just use a regular surgeons knot to tie the different size leaders together?


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## Chromedoggy (Mar 25, 2007)

Jfish said:


> You just use a regular surgeons knot to tie the different size leaders together?



A double or triple surgeons would work, but the choice of most would be blood knots, though I prefer a double or back to back Uni knot


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## Bull Market (Mar 12, 2005)

Chromedoggy said:


> A double or triple surgeons would work, but the choice of most would be blood knots, though I prefer a double or back to back Uni knot


90% of the time I use the surgeon's knot. 99% of the time, when I'm on the stream and have to add tippet. Fish don't mind if the knot is a little "crooked". When I feel artistic, I use back to back uni-knot, as Chromedoggy mentions. It's fun to tie.


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## Jfish (Sep 22, 2010)

Isn't the back to back uni just a "fisherman's knot" back to back? The same knot that I tie my flies on with?


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## Bull Market (Mar 12, 2005)

Here's an animated You Tube video.


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## aimus1 (Feb 28, 2011)

Agreed. And it's not really necessary to build a leader. A short section of 0X Flourocarbon works great. Just like casting a spinner...they attack while giving chase to a moving/twitching target. They wont have time to look at your knots. I also like the 0X when I roll chuck that streamer right into a cedar tree or the junk on the opposite bank. Lets me reef on it and pull it out. Point my rod tip right at it and pull straight back. "tuck your chin down and let the brim of your hat protect your face. I feel if I'm not casting it in the junk...I'm not getting my bug where the fish live. Cast it in their condo and giver a twitch.

Good Posts BM




Bull Market said:


> Just keep it short. When I'm pitching larger (single) streamers, I keep it to 36 inches tops. When tossing tanden smaller streamers 4 feet to 5 feet long seems to work real well.
> 
> Keep us posted on your results when you finally make it out.


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## swampswede (Jun 6, 2010)

Okay, I am another streamer novice and looking for more input on leaders. I have been using one piece of 2x about 3 ft long and have it nail knotted to my WF floating line. Streamers themselves are tied to leader with a Rapala Knot. Please give thoughts both good and bad as I am here to learn just as JFish is.


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

Here's my advice.Imitate a wounded minnow. Minnows in distress or hurt roll around in the current they drift they flutter they surface and they sink. Big fish lurk in logs and in weed beds cast your oferings in such places. short strip, twitch, pause, fast strip, pause. swim the offering in the stumps until you cant see it and then create some action. Heavy short line with a little weight. I have used sink tips, floating line, lead core just about everything under the sun. Different conditions require different lines. I pretty much use floating line any more and work structure with a weighted fly.


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## aimus1 (Feb 28, 2011)

swampswede said:


> Okay, I am another streamer novice and looking for more input on leaders. I have been using one piece of 2x about 3 ft long and have it nail knotted to my WF floating line. Streamers themselves are tied to leader with a Rapala Knot. Please give thoughts both good and bad as I am here to learn just as JFish is.


 Your set up will work fine with a weighted fly. I like floating line over sinking line in some instances because it allows you to get a little more "swing". Lets you swing the fly under logs and undercut banks. If you're going to get serious though then an extra spool for your existing reel or an inexpensive reel with some 200 grain sink tip line is good to have. Link a 3-4 ft. piece of that 2x flourocarbon to the end of the line and keep it in your pouch. Easy to switch up. 
Beware...Streamer action can take the day time dry fly fisherman right out of you. You'll move more big fish than you'll hook but when you see that pig follow your junk out of the shaddows...Nothing like it.


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## Bull Market (Mar 12, 2005)

aimus1 said:


> Beware...Streamer action can take the day time dry fly fisherman right out of you. You'll move more big fish than you'll hook but when you see that pig follow your junk out of the shaddows...Nothing like it.


Ain't THAT the truth!

Also, a slow swing and periodic twitch through dark water is my FAVORITE way to dance with steelhead in the fall.


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## BeanOFish (Jul 28, 2003)

All of this is great advice for streamer fishing. If you're looking for something that you can always reference, read Modern Streamers for Trophy Trout by Gallop and Linesman. It is fantastic. One of the best things that I picked up from that book is to try and have your streamer moving downstream, smaller baitfish flee going downstream (I've produced the majority of my big trout using this technique), and you cannot cast too close to cover.

Another thing, I'd invest in a sink-tip or full sink line. Scientific Anglers Streamer Express is fantastic, Rio's 24ft DC line is great as well. They're easy to cast and the ability to keep your fly down instead of swimming up during the retrieve is a huge difference maker. As for your leaders I strictly use Green Maxima, my set-up is a little different than others, I go with 10in of 20lb, 12in of 15, and about 20-25in of 10lb. The reason why I use maxima is that it turns over big flies very well, it is very stiff and tough. If you go with lighter tippet you can run into problems of knots when throwing bigger flies. 

Like everyone said earlier once you have a slob drill your fly out of nowhere it'll make you wonder why you ever fished any other way.


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## Jfish (Sep 22, 2010)

I think I'm sold on giving the streamers a go. I'm going to just buy a new rod and reel with some sink tip on it.

Any special streamer that you guys would use in the UP next week? I'll be fishing unmentionable rivers (ditches) mostly.


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## Bull Market (Mar 12, 2005)

The most effective bigger (3 to 6 inch) streamers in my box are: Nutcracker, Circus Peanut, Shock ande Awe, Madonna, Ditch Piglet. 

For the smaller variety (1 1/2 to 2 1/4 inches) Muddler Minnow, Bear's Crossdressr Fry (tied on size 4 standard wet fly hook), black nose dace, black ghost.


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## aimus1 (Feb 28, 2011)

Jfish said:


> I think I'm sold on giving the streamers a go. I'm going to just buy a new rod and reel with some sink tip on it.
> 
> Any special streamer that you guys would use in the UP next week? I'll be fishing unmentionable rivers (ditches) mostly.


Dude....black wooly bugger. I know a lot of guys might scoff at that, but I've chucked a bunch of junk up there in those ditches and nothing comes close as far as producing fish for the creel as a black wooly bugger. Not that I don't agree with all of Bull Market's choices but nothing, and I mean nothing has produced better for me than the black wooly bugger. Get a couple different sizes. 2 inchers and 3 inchers. Also one of the easiest streamers to tie. You Tube has some good bugger tie videos. Hook, Black Maribou, Black Chenille, Black Hackle Feather. You can tie in some lead if you're using floating line. Get weighted flies if using floating line, unweighted if using sinking line. Good luck and let us know how it goes.


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## Bull Market (Mar 12, 2005)

Right on! I'm with you 100% with the woolly bugger. A lot of guys will scoff at it, but it is one of the most catching-ist creations out there. 
Rivers have their own biology . . . hence different color combinations will be needed stream by stream. My river is VERY fond of tan body, brown marabou (with copper flashabou), cooper beadhead and furnace saddle hackle. I tie 'em all the way up to size 4 with 4x long shanks. Pig browns and muscled steelhead have no prejudice against buggers!


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## Jfish (Sep 22, 2010)

I was looking at Cabelas Scientific Anglers line selection for the sinking line. Bull Market, you mentioned the 200 gram. It says that the 200gram, which is the lightest weight is 6/7 weight. Will this work good with my 5 weight rods?


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## aimus1 (Feb 28, 2011)

Jfish said:


> I was looking at Cabelas Scientific Anglers line selection for the sinking line. Bull Market, you mentioned the 200 gram. It says that the 200gram, which is the lightest weight is 6/7 weight. Will this work good with my 5 weight rods?


It'll be perfect.


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## Bull Market (Mar 12, 2005)

Jfish said:


> I was looking at Cabelas Scientific Anglers line selection for the sinking line. Bull Market, you mentioned the 200 gram. It says that the 200gram, which is the lightest weight is 6/7 weight. Will this work good with my 5 weight rods?


Agree with Aimus . . . perfect. I use my 5-wt alot when tossing the smaller streamers, and use the 200g Express. VERY happy with the performance. It's amazing how accurately you can deliver your streamer with that sinking tip line. 

I have also used it in the past when tossing the more jumbo streamers, and fishing isn't as much fun. Because, combined with the weight of the larger (water-logged) streamer, casting is more of a chore. The rod becomes overloaded, and loses power. In short, it takes the fun out of life. When I know I'll be pitching the larger streamers, I pull out the 6 or 7 wt. and life is good again.

But also, if you're pitching larger streamers, you are bound to hook up with a larger-than-average specimen. Although you can certainly fight a 2-foot fish on a 5-weight, when it comes time to pull him in the last 3 feet (against the current) into the net, you'll find that the 5-weight lacks the backbone to get that job done. In fairness to the fish, I like to get him into the net without making him go belly-up from exhaustion. Hence, I pull out the 6 or 7 weight, to get the job done quicker.


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## Jfish (Sep 22, 2010)

Bull Market said:


> Agree with Aimus . . . perfect. I use my 5-wt alot when tossing the smaller streamers, and use the 200g Express. VERY happy with the performance. It's amazing how accurately you can deliver your streamer with that sinking tip line.
> 
> I have also used it in the past when tossing the more jumbo streamers, and fishing isn't as much fun. Because, combined with the weight of the larger (water-logged) streamer, casting is more of a chore. The rod becomes overloaded, and loses power. In short, it takes the fun out of life. When I know I'll be pitching the larger streamers, I pull out the 6 or 7 wt. and life is good again.
> 
> But also, if you're pitching larger streamers, you are bound to hook up with a larger-than-average specimen. Although you can certainly fight a 2-foot fish on a 5-weight, when it comes time to pull him in the last 3 feet (against the current) into the net, you'll find that the 5-weight lacks the backbone to get that job done. In fairness to the fish, I like to get him into the net without making him go belly-up from exhaustion. Hence, I pull out the 6 or 7 weight, to get the job done quicker.


My game plan now is to get the Scientific Anglers 6wt line for my 5wt to toss the smaller streamers. I'm going to get a new reel dedicated to the sinking line. I'm also going to get a 6wt rod and some of the bigger streamers as well.

I have a 6ft 5wt rod that I think will work nice for some of the small streams with brush everywhere also. I just have to see what I have to work with.

I guess some posts were deleted because of a troll?


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## aimus1 (Feb 28, 2011)

Jfish said:


> My game plan now is to get the Scientific Anglers 6wt line for my 5wt to toss the smaller streamers. I'm going to get a new reel dedicated to the sinking line. I'm also going to get a 6wt rod and some of the bigger streamers as well.
> 
> I have a 6ft 5wt rod that I think will work nice for some of the small streams with brush everywhere also. I just have to see what I have to work with.
> 
> I guess some posts were deleted because of a troll?


Wondered where those went. I was looking forward to a response from HH. 
Sounds like a good plan Jfish. Again, best of luck and let us know how your trip goes. Don't forget to get some pics.


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## Bull Market (Mar 12, 2005)

aimus1 said:


> Wondered where those went. I was looking forward to a response from HH.
> Sounds like a good plan Jfish. Again, best of luck and let us know how your trip goes. Don't forget to get some pics.


Hang with it a couple years. You'll get better and more productive with time and practice. And repeat . . . don't forget the photos. We all like the grip and grin shots! Here's a couple. You probably won't hook up with a 2-footer when tossing the smaller streamers, but these 15 to 18ers are fairly common.


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## gunrod (Jan 16, 2001)

aimus1 said:


> Wondered where those went. I was looking forward to a response from HH.
> Sounds like a good plan Jfish. Again, best of luck and let us know how your trip goes. Don't forget to get some pics.


I got rid of them. That crap goes on in the other forums. We don't get a lot of posts in this forum but other than the bait vs. fly and catch vs. release discussions I'm proud of the fact that the tit for tat crap doesn't happen in here.

Lets keep it that way. If you want an argument you post in the whitetail management or sound off politics forum.


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## Jfish (Sep 22, 2010)

I'm looking at the Jim Teeny sinking line. It has a 24ft sinking tip. What do you think of that?

Also, what about the line with only a 10ft sinking tip? I'm guessing that would work good for smaller streams but if I find a nice wide unmentionable river that wouldn't be the best thing?


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## aimus1 (Feb 28, 2011)

gunrod said:


> I got rid of them. That crap goes on in the other forums. We don't get a lot of posts in this forum but other than the bait vs. fly and catch vs. release discussions I'm proud of the fact that the tit for tat crap doesn't happen in here.
> 
> Lets keep it that way. If you want an argument you post in the whitetail management or sound off politics forum.


Hope I didn't come off as "looking for an argument". If you view my posts on any of the forums I believe you'll find them to be friendly and "sportsman" like. I responded to HH simply because I was confused by his/her post. Thank you for your help.


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## aimus1 (Feb 28, 2011)

Jfish said:


> I'm looking at the Jim Teeny sinking line. It has a 24ft sinking tip. What do you think of that?
> 
> Also, what about the line with only a 10ft sinking tip? I'm guessing that would work good for smaller streams but if I find a nice wide unmentionable river that wouldn't be the best thing?


Sorry JFish, I don't really have any experience with either of the lines you mentioned. 24ft should be plenty with the Jim Teeny stuff. Id probably steer clear of the 10ft stuff though. BM might have used either of these lines in the past. I've used the 10 ft lenghts of sink tip line that you simply attach to your existing floating line. Not nearly as good as a full sinking line like the Scientific Angler stuff mentioned in prior posts.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Jfish said:


> I'm looking at the Jim Teeny sinking line. It has a 24ft sinking tip. What do you think of that?
> 
> Also, what about the line with only a 10ft sinking tip? I'm guessing that would work good for smaller streams but if I find a nice wide unmentionable river that wouldn't be the best thing?


I run the T 200 on my 6wt. Pretty versatile line


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## Bull Market (Mar 12, 2005)

Jfish said:


> I'm looking at the Jim Teeny sinking line. It has a 24ft sinking tip. What do you think of that?
> 
> Also, what about the line with only a 10ft sinking tip? I'm guessing that would work good for smaller streams but if I find a nice wide unmentionable river that wouldn't be the best thing?


 
My very first sink tip was the Teeny T-200. It served me well, but I questioned the durability. It seems the tungsten coating (or whatever it is) chipped off in spots way too prematurely. That created several hinge spots along the sinking portion, and was rough going through the guides. I think this happened during the second or third year of use. 

Next I tried the RIO Density Compensated 250. But, didn't like the abrupt transition from the sinking to the running line. And, it seemed to me that their running line was too bouyant. I ultimately concluded that 24 feet of sink tip was too short . . . I fish the Stugeon, Pigeon and Maple 90% of my time. I'm fishing rivers that range from 25 to 50 feet wide for the most part. 

I ended up trying SA Streamer Express and was very happy with the longer sink tip, and their transition to the running line. 

Finally, I tried the SA Mastery Series Galloup Streamer Express (supposedly designed by Kelly Galloup). It is an absolute winner in my book. It has a 30 foot tip, followed by a 20 foot intermediate sink portion, finally the running line. I'm into my second year with it, and it shows no signs of wear. 

Streamer pitching in my preferred approach. I do it alot, and put the waders on 125 to 150 days each year. The Galloup Express gets my vote . . . at least for now.

Finally, even on smaller streams, I would use the Streamer Express, and skip those 10 foot sink tips. One of the MAJOR advantages to using a 30-foot tip (or even a full sinking line) is the accuracy . . . scratch that . . . the PRECISION with which you can cast those heavier lines. Just on a whim, I went back and pulled out an old, old 10 foot tip I had and tried using it. I wanted to see if it would serve as a back up in case I ever needed it. Answer NO. Way too frustrating, now that I've tasted what a true sinking line can do. 

Hope this helps.


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## gunrod (Jan 16, 2001)

aimus1 said:


> Hope I didn't come off as "looking for an argument". If you view my posts on any of the forums I believe you'll find them to be friendly and "sportsman" like. I responded to HH simply because I was confused by his/her post. Thank you for your help.


Not a problem. I understand the responses to his/her posts. I just like to keep our forum friendly. We are pretty small fraternity. No need for problems between us.

Bull, I agree with you on the Teeney. I had one and it didn't last very long. I don't remember how many grain it was but it was way too much. Fishing Shoeman's boat on the Muskegon one afternoon I had to put the rod down and take a rest after hooking the back of my shirt way too many times (at least more than normal). 

I once saw a couple of Teeney fishing videos. I think he fishes very fast water and his lines are over weighted.

I'm using a Rio sink tip line that fished much better. I have an Orvis sink tip now that I haven't fished for the reasons stated above so I will have to wait to give it a fair assessment.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Agreed they don't last forever. But having said that, they sure are sweet out of the box. I have yet to find a line that shoots like that. I use it quite a bit on lakes and with the right conditions I can see the backing...lol

Probably overkill for small waters like the PM, but on the Muskegon or Southern Tailwaters 

Once the coating is compromised through sand on the boat deck and stepping on it or zebras knicking it, it's toast. It will knot up and won't shoot worth a darn. Our waters are hell on lines. 

It's quite limp and great for the early and late season compared to my Depth charge Orvis sinktip which comes across somewhat stiffer. I get about 1 1/2 seasons out a T 200 and that's a lot of use. Not sure what the current retail price is (I think it's around 60), but I was getting it at cost. (like 40 bucks compared to 80 for the Orvis).

Shorter heads have been mentioned in the this thread. I can't comment on those, but they probably suffice on small to medium rivers and will cast better if you own a softer stick


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## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

I like the SA lines, partly because they are as good or better than any and partly because they are a Michigan company. As far as line rod sizes and sink rates go, I would choose a fast 9' 6 wt and a 200 gr full sink or 24' minimum tip. A smaller rod is OK for small streams and a bigger rod is good for big rivers and bigger flies, 5" and up, but the 6 wt will work everywhere until you decide to specialize.

As for flies, get an assortment in the 2" to 4" range, weighted and unweighted, light and dark, thin and bulky and see what you like. I prefer weighted flies on small streams where I stick 'em deep into cover at splash down and unweighted on bigger water where I let the line work the fly down to deeper structure. Lots of folks do the opposite. I also prefer smaller flies early in the season and larger in the fall, unless the fish want 'em the other way around. If you are just starting out with streamers you should definitely start smaller and remember that the rod throws the line, not you. Your rotator cuff will thank you. Good luck.


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## Jfish (Sep 22, 2010)

I ended up buying a new rod, reel, and line yesterday at Cabelas. 

I got the Teeny 200 24ft. sink. That was all they had. They didn't have the SA in stock there so i thought I'd try the teeny. I also bought a Ross Essence FW 9ft. 6wt and a CLA copper size 3 reel.

I should be able to try the streamers on Thursday or Friday. If the streams are too tight, I have a 6ft 5wt that I'll throw the sink line on. I figure that if I get at least a limit of brook trout, each one will cost about $150. Small price to pay for fun and food lol!

Thanks a lot for all of your input!


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## tannhd (Dec 3, 2010)

Jfish said:


> I ended up buying a new rod, reel, and line yesterday at Cabelas.
> 
> I got the Teeny 200 24ft. sink. That was all they had. They didn't have the SA in stock there so i thought I'd try the teeny. I also bought a Ross Essence FW 9ft. 6wt and a CLA copper size 3 reel.
> 
> ...



I enjoy my Ross CLA. Good reel for the money.


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