# ***Mentionable list updated.***



## Duck-Hunter (Mar 31, 2005)

Just wanted to let everyone know that the "Mentionable List" has been updated. A certain stream has been removed. Instead of me mentioning said stream, which would be violation of the rules. Please read the sticky "To all members who give a report on fishing adventures in any of the river forums". If you are going to post questions, reports or anything else please refer to the sticky and if a stream is not on the list that makes it unmentionable and not able to discuss matters about any river, creek, stream that is not ON the list. 

Thank you.


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## mgrossnickle (Oct 24, 2011)

Duck-Hunter said:


> Just wanted to let everyone know that the "Mentionable List" has been updated. A certain stream has been removed. Instead of me mentioning said stream, which would be violation of the rules. Please read the sticky "To all members who give a report on fishing adventures in any of the river forums". If you are going to post questions, reports or anything else please refer to the sticky and if a stream is not on the list that makes it unmentionable and not able to discuss matters about any river, creek, stream that is not ON the list.
> 
> Thank you.


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## mgrossnickle (Oct 24, 2011)

Brilliant! Day late and dollar short, and the since the posts about that "unmentionable" were recently removed, I'm sure all is well for another day, lol! Maybe send the geniuses at the Dnr a heads up too, since they started the whole thing and went so far as to try to take some sort of credit for that fishery which has never seen a single plant from them!


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

Duck-Hunter said:


> Just wanted to let everyone know that the "Mentionable List" has been updated. A certain stream has been removed. Instead of me mentioning said stream, which would be violation of the rules. Please read the sticky "To all members who give a report on fishing adventures in any of the river forums". If you are going to post questions, reports or anything else please refer to the sticky and if a stream is not on the list that makes it unmentionable and not able to discuss matters about any river, creek, stream that is not ON the list.
> 
> Thank you.


Why was a stream on the mentionable list taken off? In other words why was it on the mentionable list to start with and what criteria is there to lobby to get others taken off ?


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## Infidel (Jan 9, 2014)

Uh, I hate to be that guy, but can you tell me where the list is? I am sure it would help others too. Thanks


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## Whitetail_hunter (Mar 14, 2012)

"Reports and questions on the Big Manistee, Little Manistee, Pine, White, Pere Marquette, Big Sable, Betsie, Platte, Boardman, and Jordan Rivers. Please do not reveal specific holes, runs, or access points."


Doesnt appear to be updated to me.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Looks like Bear Creek was removed


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## Whitetail_hunter (Mar 14, 2012)

Shoeman said:


> Looks like Bear Creek was removed


Thanks shoeman didn't notice that.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

To bad we can't stop guy's from posting that river all over Facebook.


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## Infidel (Jan 9, 2014)

Yeah, there is one east of GR that has blown up over the past 15 years. I think was on the list but may not be now?


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## zig (Aug 5, 2009)

I never understood the big allure to this river. I don't really do it, so it must be a spring/fall thing that makes this river so touchy online? It was never high on my list for a LP resident trout stream. Maybe I just never fished it right....


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## jmaddog8807 (Oct 6, 2009)

Infidel said:


> Yeah, there is one east of GR that has blown up over the past 15 years. I think was on the list but may not be now?


Blown up may even be an understatement. Have to fish that river before March or it's nearly impossible


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## GRUNDY (Jun 18, 2005)

Facebook has destroyed more good fishing spots. I don't have a bookface account. But a lot of talk I hear when a good spot has no room left is how so and so saw it on so and so's FB...

Thanks Mark Z! LOL


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Really guys the FB fishermen can't get out of bed until noon and can't fish for longer than 10 minutes. I have seen enough of them in my lifetime.


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## Infidel (Jan 9, 2014)

AMEN! FB is one of those things where everyone's life would be better without it!


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## piscatorial warrior (Sep 14, 2011)

I dunno, I met my wife on Facebook. She's pretty awesome.


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

With all the posts on Facebook and videos on YouTube I'm really starting to think we limit ourselves way too much here as far as what we don't allow.


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## MGump (Sep 24, 2009)

Steve said:


> With all the posts on Facebook and videos on YouTube I'm really starting to think we limit ourselves way too much here as far as what we don't allow.


Agreed, and in many cases with our cold water fishery, by the time the news of a "hot run" or fish around any given pier hits the web, the conditions have usually changed. For the internet fishermen, by the time they read a post, and even try to get to said "hot spot" conditions change and the game is over. 

It's too bad that many posts on this site are met with negativity. Whether it is your first king, or your thousandth steelhead, many like to share stories of their success, and why not share some info especially since most of our cold water fishery access points are hardly a secret. I would think those of us who regularly use our great resources here in Michigan would much rather fish, hunt, hike, kayak..... with other educated sportsmen and women (example: you can catch kings without snagging them in the tail).

Just my two cents, but I know that when I am stuck at my desk, it often makes my day to see what others are catching, shooting, or seeing on their trail cams.


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## 1302berkey (May 6, 2015)

MGump said:


> Just my two cents, but I know that when I am stuck at my desk, it often makes my day to see what others are catching, shooting, or seeing on their trail cams.


What he said.⬆


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Steve said:


> With all the posts on Facebook and videos on YouTube I'm really starting to think we limit ourselves way too much here as far as what we don't allow.


True that, but I see FB as personal content without any regard to the resource.

We need to place ours a level higher in order to protect what we know as fragile!


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

I fished the "unmentionable" before the internet. It has always drawn a crowd.


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

Shoeman said:


> True that, but I see FB as personal content without any regard to the resource.
> 
> We need to place ours a level higher in order to protect what we know as fragile!


So push all those people over to a FB group where they can get any information they want?


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## hypox (Jan 23, 2000)

Steve said:


> So push all those people over to a FB group where they can get any information they want?


This is exactly what is happening and will continue to happen unless things change here.

The posting rules made sense 10+ years ago. They make no sense now.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Steve said:


> So push all those people over to a FB group where they can get any information they want?


Is it information or exploitation?

Once it's shoulder to shoulder even those fools might get it. Remember the White with its limited parking?

No need to take responsibility for a few additional "clicks".



hypox said:


> This is exactly what is happening and will continue to happen unless things change here.
> 
> The posting rules made sense 10+ years ago. They make no sense now.


So even more exposure is a good thing?

I grew up watching Trost with week-old reports. Just look at the reports on Erie perch. "Live from the Bay"

Instant up-dates! Making changes here would do what? Reduce pressure?

Some waters can handle it.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Steve said:


> So push all those people over to a FB group where they can get any information they want?


Counter the FB info in an effort to throw people off.  (just kidding)


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## AdamBradley (Mar 13, 2008)

Fb has made things worse for sure, but the internet in general, and reports of "stacked like cordwood" have blown up a few spots which used to have little pressure  

the best input I have is learn why fish do what they do, read conditions, and roll the dice. My best steelhead and king days this year have come from reading conditions and not reports and rolling the dice. I also had tons of elbow room those days as well  

I tend to specifically avoid whichever spot has all the "hot bite" talk of the moment, and it makes time on the water far more enjoyable.


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## GRUNDY (Jun 18, 2005)

Kind of a screwed either way situation.

I think having an unmentionable list keeps the fighting to a lower level.


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## dinoday (Feb 22, 2004)

I don't mind having "unmentionable rivers" here, I don't fish many of them anyway and even a report isn't going to send me running to one, but some people have to see the reports before they'll go.
You could go to any number of groups on Facebook and ask about any river and odds are, someone will tell you something.
Google a video of fishing any named stream you like and I bet it's already pimped on YouTube.
Having unmentionables helps the some guys sleep better at night, but don't fool yourself into thinking other social media sites do the same.


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## dinoday (Feb 22, 2004)

piscatorial warrior said:


> I dunno, I met my wife on Facebook. She's pretty awesome.


So did I


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

I met my wife at the Last Supper


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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

It's a fact that if you need to chase internet reports to some "hot bite or river", you likely don't catch much anyways. If you know how to fish; you can go anywhere, and if they're biting, you're hooking. Simple as that.

I mean, I won't travel for salmon, at all. I just fish local, and while it costs me hero numbers, I'm still catching fish all the time.


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## mgrossnickle (Oct 24, 2011)

ausable_steelhead said:


> It's a fact that if you need to chase internet reports to some "hot bite or river", you likely don't catch much anyways. If you know how to fish; you can go anywhere, and if they're biting, you're hooking. Simple as that.
> 
> I mean, I won't travel for salmon, at all. I just fish local, and while it costs me hero numbers, I'm still catching fish all the time.


You


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## mgrossnickle (Oct 24, 2011)

Hold it. Let's list the facts: 
Fact is the said river has never seen a planting by the Dnr. 
Fact is the Dnr plainly posts and promotes this resource as though they have somehow contributed to its current status
Fact is the large majority of it is on private land, with trespassers rampantly using archaic and unclear rules of access as an excuse to rape the resource. Spare me the "I float in and that's legal" speil, or the "I had to get out because of an obstruction". 
My point wasn't about chasing internet posts about where they're catching fish. It was about how it promotes and encourages people to go somewhere that guarantees this type of continued bs.


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## B.Jarvinen (Jul 12, 2014)

Or just ask the local bait shop when you spend ten bucks in there.

It would be better to keep people around so they can learn how to fish and some of the ethics of sportsmanship, which are a fair bit less likely to be discussed elsewhere. 

There is a huge difference between "turn on the 3rd 2-track on the left, then go a couple hundred yards to the huge Oak tree and the killer hole is right behind the Pine tree next to it" and "I caught a Trout on the longest river in the U.P. but we can't mention that one."

Discussing the river systems in a general sense should be fine. Yesterday I asked a binary question - was a pictured fish from water open to the Great Lakes, or not? The answer was that would be revealing too much. Answering the non-revealing question would help people learn that they can figure out how, when, and where to fish by reading a map. Phone GPS and Facebook can't do that for you.

I have had two horrible fishing experiences this year, while casting in a public place. No, not fighting crowds. "Crowds" today are nothing like the Salmon heyday of the 1980s. 

Twice I met people while fishing who didn't understand this: that you have to reel in a lure after you cast it out. They literally thought you use them the same as bait under a bobber. One situation was a father/son combo with the father trying to teach his son how to fish, but obviously the father had never learned while younger. They were running out of the lures they had purchased because they kept letting them sit on the bottom, which was very rocky.

It reminded me of some commentary from a guide service I read while looking into a trip to Minnesota's North Shore, where I lived as a child:

Another mistake new anglers seem to make when targeting steelhead is crowding other anglers. Growing up in Minnesota I would venture to say that the majority of people grew up fishing lakes or ponds. Docks, boats, and shoreline have always been easily accessible and so that is how most of us cut our teeth with the rods and reels. When an angler switches to river fishing for the first time it is like a deer in the head lights. The water is constantly moving and switching directions, and it is hard to tell where a fish could be holding. We see quite a few anglers that just wait to see a fish landed then run right up next to the person and start fishing instead of reading, watching videos, and observing other anglers’ techniques to learn the best ways to catch fish. It is understandable because in steelhead fishing there are very few teachers on the water. In Minnesota we all grew up with teachers whether it be our grandparents, our parents, or our siblings teaching us different techniques at catching warm water species. Never the less it is quite annoying when an angler runs up next to you when you are battling a fish. All it does is screw up the fishing for both people because usually these “runners” take the shortest path to the nearest angler, which is usually right down the center of a run.


Sound familiar? Does Facebook include any commentary that might help move such people onwards and upwards in our sport? I doubt it. They want to become better fishermen and though I never worry about crowds (the more people fishing the better, in my opinion, or the whole sport will suffer), people need somewhere to learn how to fish. Making fishing a Secret activity will not help.


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## B.Jarvinen (Jul 12, 2014)

And it would help people a lot to point out that a lot of unmentionables are because a lot of the shoreline is private property. So perhaps they should focus their efforts on either finding a piece of public land to fish from, or even finding a river system with more public land than the ones with very limited public access. I think "mentioning" some streams in this way could help avoid Trespassing conflicts. Because Phone GPS doesn't show property lines...


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

Steve said:


> With all the posts on Facebook and videos on YouTube I'm really starting to think we limit ourselves way too much here as far as what we don't allow.


The biggest complaint i have on here is it is getting too much like Facebook.... waste of time sorting through personal issues and hearing about family members problems or "i could go" .. need to post a bond to open an account and everytime you waste someone's time they can bill you back for it ... and can we all agree real men don't use emoji's .... Ralph Smith has you all catfished thinking he is a guy ... never seen a man that CAN'T post without at least 10 of them .... just saying


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## M. Tonello (Sep 20, 2002)

mgrossnickle said:


> Hold it. Let's list the facts:
> Fact is the said river has never seen a planting by the Dnr.
> Fact is the Dnr plainly posts and promotes this resource as though they have somehow contributed to its current status
> Fact is the large majority of it is on private land, with trespassers rampantly using archaic and unclear rules of access as an excuse to rape the resource. Spare me the "I float in and that's legal" speil, or the "I had to get out because of an obstruction".
> My point wasn't about chasing internet posts about where they're catching fish. It was about how it promotes and encourages people to go somewhere that guarantees this type of continued bs.


Fact: The stream we're discussing (apparently we can't name it on here now) is a public resource, whether you like it or not. It is a navigable stream, and the public has the right to walk it, float it, and fish it. Although it lacks for access in it's middle reaches, it has miles and miles of state land in its upper reaches. My original post was a newspaper article, for pete's sake. While I certainly appreciate your passion for it, it is not some secret stream. 

It is a famous Michigan stream because for one thing, it was one of the first in Michigan to be stocked with coho salmon, in 1966. Read about that here if you're interested: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/2014-195_497187_7.pdf
There are books written about the stream that actually do list locations and particular spots to fish.

The other thing to be aware is that just because we don't stock a stream doesn't mean we aren't managing it. I have spent much of my career conducting fisheries surveys, planning habitat projects, meeting with the xxxx Creek Watershed Council and the xxxx Creek Restoration Committee, and protecting the stream's habitat by working with DEQ. We are truly fortunate to have streams like this in Michigan that we all can enjoy.


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## Boardman Brookies (Dec 20, 2007)

How specific do you want to get? I fish a small tributary creek often. Lets call it Brown Trout Creek. It isn't very big, deep or long but it is a heck of a fishery that should remain unnamed. Just leave things on this site as they are. Nothing is a secret not even Brown Trout Creek but why blast it?


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## Huntingguy23 (Jul 9, 2013)

Mark thanks for posting that article ... i was lucky enough to read it before it got pulled and really enjoyed it .... not sure how it all went down as the trib was on the mentionable list ... and now it is not? I bet Behind the scenes **** was flying ...... who you gotta know to get my favorite trib off that list ?


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

M. Tonello said:


> Fact: The stream we're discussing (apparently we can't name it on here now) is a public resource, whether you like it or not. It is a navigable stream, and the public has the right to walk it, float it, and fish it. Although it lacks for access in it's middle reaches, it has miles and miles of state land in its upper reaches. My original post was a newspaper article, for pete's sake. While I certainly appreciate your passion for it, it is not some secret stream.
> 
> It is a famous Michigan stream because for one thing, it was one of the first in Michigan to be stocked with coho salmon, in 1966. Read about that here if you're interested: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/2014-195_497187_7.pdf
> There are books written about the stream that actually do list locations and particular spots to fish.
> ...


Mark, I encourage you to continue to post info on any and all rivers you wish. Our readers love the info and it is public info.


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