# Trespassing Hound Hunters



## TimBuckTwo (Jan 3, 2009)

Can't help but think that guys like this give bird hunters a black eye too.

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=481107


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## Dave Medema (Jan 18, 2005)

At my opener, we had bear hounds on the property each morning and we discussed many of the same issues. While there is some public land in the area, it is predominantly private. The bear guys knew 100% that their dogs would end up on private property. One morning we found 4 trucks at the intersection of 4 private roads and property. They were waiting for the hounds to tree a bear they were following. We had a pleasant exchange with them but I truly don't understand the mentality of running dogs where you KNOW they will trespass. 

One of the hounds liked bacon as he sat on our porch and played with 7 setters. Nice dog and nice owners but still....the inevitable trespass issues will arise soon.


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## carsonr2 (Jan 15, 2009)

I can see this giving anyone who hunts with dogs a black eye for sure.

One thing I don't get and I read all eight pages, one guy states he is a bird hunter and that his dogs follow scent and have strayed onto private property. Obviously siding with the thought of being able to retrieve one's dog from private property....which I don't disagree with.

My question is, how many people hunt behind bird dogs that don't fully obey owners commands?

My shorthair must always obey my commands. If she doesn't she won't be out in the filed hunting, we'd be training. This goes for chasing deer, ranging too far out, rushing birds, etc. She must always come when called, stop when whoa'd, and release only when commanded to do so.


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

carsonr2 said:


> I can see this giving anyone who hunts with dogs a black eye for sure.
> 
> One thing I don't get and I read all eight pages, one guy states he is a bird hunter and that his dogs follow scent and have strayed onto private property. Obviously siding with the thought of being able to retrieve one's dog from private property....which I don't disagree with.
> 
> ...


You have guys here who have pointing dogs that run 200 yards, or more, out in the woods at times. At that range commands don't make much of a difference.

There is a considerable difference in the range and how one hunts a horseback bred English Pointer versus a NAVHDA bred shorthair. There is a considerable difference in how those two breedings hunt. 

There are two types of bird dog owners in the world. Those who have lost a dog for a while when hunting and those who are going to lose a dog.


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## carsonr2 (Jan 15, 2009)

WestCoastHunter said:


> You have guys here who have pointing dogs that run 200 yards, or more, out in the woods at times. At that range commands don't make much of a difference.
> 
> There is a considerable difference in the range and how one hunts a horseback bred English Pointer versus a NAVHDA bred shorthair. There is a considerable difference in how those two breedings hunt.
> 
> There are two types of bird dog owners in the world. Those who have lost a dog for a while when hunting and those who are going to lose a dog.


I guess I just don't prescribe to the letting my grouse dog range out to 200 yards. Why in the grouse woods would someone let there dog out 200 yards? Close working dogs are what I'm after, 200 yards out is too far of a distance to close on a point in thick cover, on a bird that will run.

I understand for open prairie bird species, but from one of the most respected grouse hunters that I've ever spoke too, a great way to ruin a great grouse dog is to let it hunt pheasants/quail.


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## Jim58 (Jan 16, 2010)

carsonr2 said:


> My question is, how many people hunt behind bird dogs that don't FULLY obey owners commands?


My guess is everyone...


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## mudbat2128 (Sep 7, 2004)

Jim58 said:


> My guess is everyone...


sooner or later:rant:


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## downrange (Dec 25, 2010)

Let me start by saying that i have never hunted with dogs, much less owned my own. 

To me, this story does not give bird dogs a black eye. This is apples/oranges to bird dogs. Its a whole different ball game. 

Ive never liked the idea of using hounds on bear. You let your dogs chase the animals all over the countryside (god only knows where the bear might run), then walk up on it stranded in a tree to gun it down. Where is the sport in that?? All this story does for me is affirm why i dislike hound hunters. SSDD with those clowns. Personally, i would NEVER group bird dog hunters in with that crowd. 


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## micooner (Dec 20, 2003)

Wow where is the sport?? Lets see, where is the sport putting down corn and shooting bambi??? Where is the sport of using fishfinders and parking over a school of salmon staging for their fall run. Where is the sport of dumping sweet rolls for Yogi and boo boo? How about dipping for smelt? 

I don't defend slobs, hell I have even called the cops on some of my fellow tresspassing cooners. Didn't win any popularity contests with that but so what.

You stated you don't own dogs so your statements mean nothing, Its not the kill at the tree its the chase and dog work that is the sport of it. I've pat hunted also, A flashy point by a setter meant more to me than a pat shot down. JMHO


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## Reel_Addiction (Apr 18, 2012)

X2. When u hunt with your dog weather it be hound or bird dog its never about the kill. Watching your dog do what the two of u work so hard training to do is what its all about. When i run my Beagle i rarely even take my gun. If someone goes with us i let them shoot. If you've never owned a hunting dog u cant truly understand this.

Sent from my DROID3 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## GSPJAKE (Nov 23, 2007)

carsonr2 said:


> I guess I just don't prescribe to the letting my grouse dog range out to 200 yards. Why in the grouse woods would someone let there dog out 200 yards? Close working dogs are what I'm after, 200 yards out is too far of a distance to close on a point in thick cover, on a bird that will run.
> 
> I understand for open prairie bird species, but from one of the most respected grouse hunters that I've ever spoke too, a great way to ruin a great grouse dog is to let it hunt pheasants/quail.


 
Interested in hearing how a great grouse dog is ruined by hunting Phez?


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## I'm with Brandy (Aug 5, 2007)

WestCoastHunter said:


> You have guys here who have pointing dogs that run 200 yards, or more, out in the woods at times. At that range commands don't make much of a difference.
> 
> There is a considerable difference in the range and how one hunts a horseback bred English Pointer versus a NAVHDA bred shorthair. There is a considerable difference in how those two breedings hunt.
> 
> There are two types of bird dog owners in the world. Those who have lost a dog for a while when hunting and those who are going to lose a dog.


I like those big ranging dogs. We have had a few visit us while hunting. I like it when they go on point for us and the owner is 200 yards away try to get Brandy in there to catch the bird as it tries to hide then we leave before the owner comes to find his dog. No gun shot they have no clue we were ever there. :lol:

I did have a Brit follow us for a while. I could here the guy yelling to his dog. But the dog was more interested in Brandy than his master. Probably didn't help Brandy was in heat. :lol:



Reel_Addiction said:


> X2. When u hunt with your dog weather it be hound or bird dog its never about the kill. Watching your dog do what the two of u work so hard training to do is what its all about. When i run my Beagle i rarely even take my gun. If someone goes with us i let them shoot. If you've never owned a hunting dog u cant truly understand this.



Could not agree more. For me I just enjoy watching the dog work, birds are just a bonus. The most fun I have ever had was working Brandy for three guys pheasant hunting. I was about 5 yards behind the line handling the dog. They absolutely had a good time.


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## TrekJeff (Sep 7, 2007)

Reel_Addiction said:


> X2. When u hunt with your dog weather it be hound or bird dog its never about the kill. Watching your dog do what the two of u work so hard training to do is what its all about. When i run my Beagle i rarely even take my gun. If someone goes with us i let them shoot. If you've never owned a hunting dog u cant truly understand this.
> 
> Sent from my DROID3 using Ohub Campfire mobile app



And I'll call it a X4...What inspired me to own a Setter was watching two work during last years Tails A Waggin Veteran's hunt. Autumn and Aspen were amazing to watch...that, and getting a chance to hunt with my father is what made the event memorable. Today I have to E. Setters and have more enjoyment in watching them work then I could ever have shooting a bird. The bird is simply an add-on to a great experience. Putting the time in training can be extensive, and sometimes a years worth of work may not meet expectations, but new avenues are sought. One of my setters hunts like a champ, until the shot...then she will beat you back to the truck. The other is a recent rescue I acquired that is not gun shy and has great potential...but seeing her work the fields the first day I got her was pure joy...when the other comes around on the gun issue, it won't be that I have two huntable dogs to shoot birds over, it will be that I have twice the enjoyment of watching work pay off.


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## lucky hunter (Sep 26, 2009)

I run hounds on coyotes in the winter. When we dump the dogs into a section, we are all well aware on what properties we can and cannot go on to. If I am walking in the section and the dog ends up on a property we cannot be on, I will unload the gun and retrieve the dog as fast as I can and get out. 

Many property owners want us to kill the coyotes but there are always the few who do not want anyone else on their property and we respect that. We cannot control where the dogs go but we will never release the dogs on property we do not have permission to be on. 

I don't understand why ALL hound hunters get a bad rap when there are only a few who are not respecting others property. 

Just my .02


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## FieldWalker (Oct 21, 2003)

GSPJAKE said:


> Interested in hearing how a great grouse dog is ruined by hunting Phez?


I know this opinion is shared by a lot of folks (I often think of a great thread on UJ about the topic- specifically a post from Grush). Very few "great" pheasant dogs make "great" ruffed grouse dogs (obviously with a small percentage of exceptions). The birds and cover just lend to a two different styles. 

I have what I'd consider an above average pheasant dog... that same dog is meat dog when it comes to grouse.... just applies too much pressure to grouse.

A great grouse dog on pheasants may provide a lot of unproductives... giving pheasants more time to escape.

A great pheasant dog on grouse can bust more birds.


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## k9wernet (Oct 15, 2007)

I'm with Brandy said:


> I like those big ranging dogs. We have had a few visit us while hunting. I like it when they go on point for us and the owner is 200 yards away try to get Brandy in there to catch the bird as it tries to hide then we leave before the owner comes to find his dog. No gun shot they have no clue we were ever there. :lol:
> 
> I did have a Brit follow us for a while. I could here the guy yelling to his dog. But the dog was more interested in Brandy than his master. Probably didn't help Brandy was in heat. :lol:


I assume you're joking, but I guess I don't see the humor. Why would you take pleasure in ruining someone else's hunt? Why would you hunt an area knowing that another bird hunter is nearby?


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## k9wernet (Oct 15, 2007)

FieldWalker said:


> A great grouse dog on pheasants may provide a lot of unproductives... giving pheasants more time to escape.
> 
> A great pheasant dog on grouse can bust more birds.


That's a pretty good summary of my thinking on the matter.

At the same time, I wonder if that says more about the birds than the dogs. How many of us spend enough time hunting both species to really know what our dogs are capable of? With enough exposure, can the average dog figure out which species he's hunting?

I think of RecurveRX's dog Ruger. That dog has seen a ton of birds. Grouse, pheasants, quail, sharptails... and does pretty well, dare I say VERY well on them all. Maybe he's one of those exceptional dogs you mentioned. Or maybe Mike has given him more exposure to a variety of species than your typical Michigan dog is going to get. 

I know that dog will see more pheasants this season than my grouse/woodcock dogs have seen in 9 years.


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## Daveldman (Jun 6, 2010)

I regards to knowingly letting a dog work private property, I think that is just not right. Bear dog, bird dog, dog on a walk...whatever. I get that dogs of all types will at some point run across property lines( they fail to read signs), but it is the owners responsibility to get that dog back as quickly as possible.

Where we go in VA on the farm, there are beagles/hounds running through the property almost every day. The dogs are pushing deer, and the owners start them miles down the road on a small patch of public land, and track them by radio collar. There is nothing our friends can do under law to stop it. The owners have the right to come on the property to "retrieve the dog" also. Several years back a pack of hounds killed one of their pet dogs. I don't get the mentality of people who think that just because you are into the sport of running dogs on game, you can let them go where they want. 
They now put a large tub of cheap food out, so that the dogs gorge themselves and stop hunting.

All that being said, I think to the general public, people that run dogs of any type get lumped together, thus making responsible dog owners have a bad name. If you hunt a specific area, it helps to be friendly to neighboring property owners, and let them know you are there. I know the guy that owns the property adjacent to where I often hunt, and while I stay off his property, I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem with my dog crossing the line a little bit.


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

lucky hunter said:


> I don't understand why ALL hound hunters get a bad rap when there are only a few who are not respecting others property.


Try this one on for size - for many landowners, the ONLY observations they've had of hound hunters involve lawlessness.

Based on my observations, for example, which I am certain are not an accurate representation, 100% of all coonhunters are criminals.


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## Hevi (May 18, 2004)

k9wernet said:


> I think of RecurveRX's dog Ruger. That dog has seen a ton of birds. Grouse, pheasants, quail, sharptails...
> 
> I know that dog will see more pheasants this season than my grouse/woodcock dogs have seen in 9 years.


That is the kind of dog we all want. I think those dogs are made. Largely, by their owner giving them a sufficient number of contacts to different game birds. I would think that a dog like that needs brains and bird savvy working in tandem all the time, on top of all of the contacts. 

I would much rather have a dog like the one you describe above than a one dimensional dog, any day. Apparently, Recurve is doing it right.


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## TrekJeff (Sep 7, 2007)

Interesting read.....:lol:


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## I'm with Brandy (Aug 5, 2007)

Brian121208 said:


> Brandy, I did not intend for you to think I was threatening to hurt a dog. For goodness sake I like dogs, expecialy huntin dogs. I just was saying that because you obveously have the most well behaved dog in the cover. Seriously I dont think your little hypothetical the pointers come steal "your bird" out of nowhere even is an issue.
> Maybe this is an issue you would find more simpathy in the spaniel corner. JMO


Well I wish it was all just hypothetical last year hunting Hoosier Valley area south of Traverse City, I had a Brit follow us for about 10 minutes. The first several minutes I could not tell where the handler was he kept beeping the collar to try to find his dog. eventually I could hear him coming up behind us yelling for his dog. Which ignored him final the dog ran off another direction. I left the dog alone Brandy and I continued to hunt the entire time. He seemed like a friendly dog he stayed out of Brandy's face which was good. It was a pain in the ass to have a stray dog to deal with. But I would never hurt the dog. It is not the first time we have run into dogs while hunting. Most of the time I don't think owners even know were are there you won't ever hear me yelling at or for my dog. My dog doesn't wear beepers of bells. 

And no I did not lead the dog back to his owner I am not here to baby sit someone's out of control dog.

LOL If you knew me you would no the last thing I care about is yours or anyone else's sympathy. That really did make me laugh out loud.

Not sure you remember the entire conversation someone got angry because I made the statement if my dog was working a bird and someone's dog came in and pointed it I would flush the bird and shoot it. They asked why I would ruin someone else's hunt. My point is they are already ruining my hunt with the intrusion of their dog. 

Since when was the entire forum except the spaniel corner the ownership of the point dog owners? 

I am sensing a theme with pointing dog owner's, they own the public hunting land they own the forums. They own all the parking spots on public land. They own all the wild birds.


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## bluekona (Oct 28, 2011)

Jim58 said:


> If we don't play the chicken or the egg thing regarding who claimed the woods first then who's fault is it that a guy with a 200 yard dog hunting public land runs into you with your close working flusher? Yours for being too close with your close working legal hunting activity or his with his 200 yd legal hunting activity? I hunt with a Griffon and he regularly ranges out past 150 yds in more open cover which is not very far in reality, especially if a close working Griffon is doing it.
> 
> I see it as a chance for a meet and greet vs. intruding on our hunt.
> 
> Jim


 BINGO!


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## gundogguy (Oct 5, 2008)

TimBuckTwo said:


> I'm not sure what the figure is for the fine amount. The thread was locked and maybe taken down altogether. The OP of the thread stated that there was quite a few people involved, including kids, on the trail camera. If it was a family of poachers,fines could add up quick if all members were charged. The thread was locked because it turned into a "I'm gonna shoot your dog if it enters my property/bashing all hound hunters thread" and derailed quickly. I just hope we find out from the OP the outcome of Johnny Laws investigation and subsequent charges.


 
Well thanks for the insight. Counting heads there were at least 9 in the one photo I would think that would bring about 8500.00 plus court costs and legal fees maybe 15,000.00- 18,000. I guess for some that's a cheap day in the woods on someone else property!
Not to mention possible game law violations.


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## k9wernet (Oct 15, 2007)

TimBuckTwo said:


> If it was a family of poachers,fines could add up quick if all members were charged.


Unfortunately, I don't think the law puts "trespassing on private land in order to hunt unlawfully" (which is poaching IMO) in the same category as "taking game out of season" or "exceeding one's game limit" which I suppose are more formal definitions of poaching.

I think in the first case -trespassing to hunt- in most cases the violator escapes with a warning. Maybe the confiscation of game if they obtained any. Maybe a mild fine if they're a repeat offender.

If you're really interested, pose the question in the deer hunting forum. Bet you'll get an earful! ...can't comment on the reliability of the data however!


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## TimBuckTwo (Jan 3, 2009)

"750.552 Trespass upon lands or premises of another; violation; penalty.
Sec. 552. (1) A person shall not do any of the following:
(a) Enter the lands or premises of another without lawful authority after having been forbidden so to do by
the owner or occupant or the agent of the owner or occupant.
(b) Remain without lawful authority on the land or premises of another after being notified to depart by the
owner or occupant or the agent of the owner or occupant.
(c) Enter or remain without lawful authority on fenced or posted farm property of another person without
the consent of the owner or his or her lessee or agent. A request to leave the premises is not a necessary
element for a violation of this subdivision. This subdivision does not apply to a person who is in the process
of attempting, by the most direct route, to contact the owner or his or her lessee or agent to request consent.
(2) A person who violates subsection (1) is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the
county jail for not more than 30 days or by a fine of not more than $250.00, or both.
History: Add. 1951, Act 102, Imd. Eff. May 31, 1951;&#63719;Am. 2007, Act 167, Eff. Mar. 20, 2008."

Michigan Penal Code. Looks like the fine is $250 or 30 days in jail.


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## FieldWalker (Oct 21, 2003)

I'm with Brandy said:


> Well I wish it was all just hypothetical last year hunting Hoosier Valley area south of Traverse City, I had a Brit follow us for about 10 minutes. The first several minutes I could not tell where the handler was he kept beeping the collar to try to find his dog. eventually I could hear him coming up behind us yelling for his dog. Which ignored him final the dog ran off another direction. I left the dog alone Brandy and I continued to hunt the entire time. He seemed like a friendly dog he stayed out of Brandy's face which was good. It was a pain in the ass to have a stray dog to deal with. But I would never hurt the dog. It is not the first time we have run into dogs while hunting. Most of the time I don't think owners even know were are there you won't ever hear me yelling at or for my dog. My dog doesn't wear beepers of bells.


So a guy that didn't hear you or your dog crossed paths with you? At what point did the dog ruin your hunt?

I may be a minority in this regard... but if a dog randomly showed next to me while out hunting; the last thing I'd be worried about is my hunt. I would have genuine concern for the dog. My first priority wouldn't be my hunt... I would likely take the 2-10 minutes to try and reconnect the dog with the owner. 

I think as upland hunters, we like to talk about upland hunting is as much (or more) about the dogs as it is about the bird. For me that also applies to other people's dogs. 

Does anyone have that quote handy that talks about doing good for people and crossing your fingers in the hopes they do the same for you? 

Soap box?


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

I'm with Brandy said:


> What I expect is people to train their dogs and have them under control.





I'm with Brandy said:


> Not all dogs are pointing dogs. Flushers work birds differently than pointing dogs.


Part of running a pointing a dog is accepting that you have to give up some control and let them hunt. If you've never had to train one or hunt behind one I can see why you think the way you do. The worlds are spectral opposites.


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## i missed again (Sep 7, 2008)

FieldWalker said:


> So a guy that didn't hear you or your dog crossed paths with you? At what point did the dog ruin your hunt?
> 
> I may be a minority in this regard... but if a dog randomly showed next to me while out hunting; the last thing I'd be worried about is my hunt. I would have genuine concern for the dog. My first priority wouldn't be my hunt... I would likely take the 2-10 minutes to try and reconnect the dog with the owner.
> 
> ...


x 2 i cant imagime leveing a dog that appears to have lost its owner


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## lucky hunter (Sep 26, 2009)

micooner said:


> You must have had some very bad times with coonhunters Farmlegend. So what makes you a Legend amongst my fellow farmers??


Amen to that. I also coyotes along with ***** with hounds. We are very law abiding.

Take it for what its worth.


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## kek25 (Jul 9, 2005)

FieldWalker said:


> So a guy that didn't hear you or your dog crossed paths with you? At what point did the dog ruin your hunt?
> 
> I may be a minority in this regard... but if a dog randomly showed next to me while out hunting; the last thing I'd be worried about is my hunt. I would have genuine concern for the dog. My first priority wouldn't be my hunt... I would likely take the 2-10 minutes to try and reconnect the dog with the owner.
> 
> ...


 
_The circumstances as I read them is he hunted the bitch in season; a male Brittany follows her around; and the Brittany is lucky it didn't get in her face or his dog would have attacked. Nice!_

_Fortunately, Scott, I think most of us would act exactly as you would if someone's dog showed up unexpectedly, regardless of breed. Apparently some people forget that dogs can be young; handlers can be new; male dogs will find bitches in heat; etc._

_Anyone that thinks their dog is the end all be all of manners and poise will eventually be embarrassed. It's not a matter of if; just a matter of when. That's usually when the humility sets in._


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## Hevi (May 18, 2004)

I'm with Brandy said:


> Since when was the entire forum except the spaniel corner the ownership of the point dog owners?
> 
> I am sensing a theme with pointing dog owner's, they own the public hunting land they own the forums. They own all the parking spots on public land. They own all the wild birds.


Don't brag about being a selfish instigator and taking pride in it, then play the victim role while basing it on your dog's hunting style. This has absolutely nothing to do with flusher vs. pointer. This has everything to do with ethics and maturity. Your cute little story lacks both.


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## I'm with Brandy (Aug 5, 2007)

kek25 said:


> _The circumstances as I read them is he hunted the bitch in season; a male Brittany follows her around; and the Brittany is lucky it didn't get in her face or his dog would have attacked. Nice!_
> 
> _Fortunately, Scott, I think most of us would act exactly as you would if someone's dog showed up unexpectedly, regardless of breed. Apparently some people forget that dogs can be young; handlers can be new; male dogs will find bitches in heat; etc._
> 
> _Anyone that thinks their dog is the end all be all of manners and poise will eventually be embarrassed. It's not a matter of if; just a matter of when. That's usually when the humility sets in._


That is a pretty good summation. Bitches in heat can get well bitchy when a male gets in their face. 

This was not a pup, and he was not lost he just ignored his handler. Now the rest could be true could have been a novice handler.

If I truly thought this dog was confused or lost and it was a pup I would have helped. The dog just didn't care to respond to his handler other than look in the direction of all the yelling and then go the other way. Guess the dog needed a shock collar. I am not going to try to run the dog down and catch it.

Not sure where I typed end all be all, don't even see where I made any reference to her being better best or other wise. Can you point me to that text? But she is very well trained and obedient. 

I have had years of experience with pointing dogs growing up. Beagles, Hounds and hunting Terriers. I have had my own. We had well trained ones and then the ones my dad tried to train. I never liked it when my dad's dogs would interfere with other people that were trying to hunt. I always thought it was rude and I never want my dogs to do that.

I got my first flusher 7 years ago.

Was not trying to be cute just related my experiences, and that I didn't like it. Ethics? because I don't chase down someone's dog to help them? Or that I don't like an out of control dog intruding on my hunt?

Immature yea probably, a55hole I can be. Give a 5hit no.


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## FieldWalker (Oct 21, 2003)

I'm with Brandy said:


> Was not trying to be cute just related my experiences, and that I didn't like it. Ethics? because I don't chase down someone's dog to help them? Or that I don't like an out of control dog intruding on my hunt?


Nobody said go chase a dog down. If you can hear the owner yelling at the dog, chances are, he could hear you if you yelled. Maybe even say something to the extent of: "your dog is over here". 

Yes, you would have yelled, likely defeating the purpose of your stealth approach. But if you like being quiet in the woods, I can't imagine you liked a dog with a beeper with you... never mind his owner following you... yelling for his dog. 

Nobody likes anyone's disobedient dog. But I don't see how your approached helped the situation one bit.


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## kek25 (Jul 9, 2005)

I'm with Brandy said:


> . . .Give a 5hit no.


Yea. I get it.


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

I'm with Brandy said:


> That is a pretty good summation. Bitches in heat can get well bitchy when a male gets in their face.


Sorry if I missed it, but are you saying your dog was in season when this happened? If so, I'm sorry but you brought that on yourself. Don't blame the owner's training or the dog for being interested if that's so.

Females in season and male dogs...all bets are off unless there is something wrong with the male.


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## I'm with Brandy (Aug 5, 2007)

FieldWalker said:


> Nobody said go chase a dog down. If you can hear the owner yelling at the dog, chances are, he could hear you if you yelled. Maybe even say something to the extent of: "your dog is over here".
> 
> Yes, you would have yelled, likely defeating the purpose of your stealth approach. But if you like being quiet in the woods, I can't imagine you liked a dog with a beeper with you... never mind his owner following you... yelling for his dog.
> 
> Nobody likes anyone's disobedient dog. But I don't see how your approached helped the situation one bit.


I under stand what your saying. I guess I just don't like it a lot more than most. I compare it to fingernails on a chalk board. It drives me up the wall. Probably why I am so anal about my dogs training. Again I don't blame the dog.


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## I'm with Brandy (Aug 5, 2007)

WestCoastHunter said:


> Sorry if I missed it, but are you saying your dog was in season when this happened? If so, I'm sorry but you brought that on yourself. Don't blame the owner's training or the dog for being interested if that's so.
> 
> Females in season and male dogs...all bets are off unless there is something wrong with the male.


I guess I am spoiled with retriever trainers who train their dogs to ignore females in heat. You would think they would not allow a dog in heat at training but they love the chance to work their dog through that distraction.


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## k9wernet (Oct 15, 2007)

TimBuckTwo said:


> Michigan Penal Code. Looks like the fine is $250 or 30 days in jail.


"Not more than." Meaning $250 or 30 days is the maximum penalty. And to hear guys talk, any penalty at all is reserved for serial offenders.

Again, that's Internet hearsay. Maybe the fines are more common than I know. I have no firsthand experience as a trespasser or a landowner dealing with them.


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## I'm with Brandy (Aug 5, 2007)

FieldWalker said:


> Nobody said go chase a dog down. If you can hear the owner yelling at the dog, chances are, he could hear you if you yelled. Maybe even say something to the extent of: "your dog is over here".
> 
> Yes, you would have yelled, likely defeating the purpose of your stealth approach. But if you like being quiet in the woods, I can't imagine you liked a dog with a beeper with you... never mind his owner following you... yelling for his dog.
> 
> Nobody likes anyone's disobedient dog. But I don't see how your approached helped the situation one bit.


I would have to admit that part of me didn't help out of spite because it makes me so angry when a dog is out of control and in the middle of my hunt.


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