# Handgun permit question



## Carpman (Mar 30, 2007)

Thought ill ask here before going to to police to find out, I'm looking to buy a handgun and I just want to make sure that I can get a buyers permit.

I'm a English citizen But a permanent resident of the USA since 2005, Most gun shops ive talked to are unsure, So if you can help me out that would be great.


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## tedshunter (Dec 27, 2004)

The citizen's part is what I would be wondering about..If you have been here sice 05 and you say you are a permanant resident why dont you just change your citizenship then you would have no problems at all?


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## JimP (Feb 8, 2002)

All this will probably only serve to confuse you more, best to get info direct from the State Police.
I took this from another forum I saw a while back in the fall.

Federal Law:

In general, non-immigrant aliens are forbidden to possess any firearms or ammunition. But there is a big exception for a legal alien who: 
...is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States 

(See Title 18, USC Chapter 44, Section 922, part (2) for details.)

Green-card holders and immigrant aliens who do not yet have their green card are both okay under federal law, although many people (including gun dealers, law enforcement officers, etc.) are not aware of the distinction or the hunting license exception, and erroneously think that either you have a green card, or you can't have guns. 

Also, non-citizens cannot purchase a firearm from a federally licensed firerams dealer unless they have been a resident of their state for 90 days.



Michigan law is a bit of a mess! It says: 

A person shall not purchase, carry, or transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section. 

One of the requirements for getting such a license is: 

The person is a citizen of the United States and is a legal resident of this state. 

However, that requirement was struck down as unconstitutional (on equal protection grounds) by the Michigan Court of Appeals. (See Chan v City of Troy, 220 Mich App 376.) However, it hasn't formally been repealed by the legislature yet. 

You don't need that license, though, if you get a concealed-carry license: 

An individual who is licensed under section 5b to carry a concealed pistol is not required to obtain a license under section 2 to purchase, carry, or transport a pistol. 

However, such a license is only issued to a Michigan resident who is a citizen or: 

a resident legal alien as defined in section 11 of title 18 of the United States Code 

The confusing thing is that section 11 of title 18 has nothing at all to do with defining resident legal aliens! It's not clear whether this is supposed to be referring only to legal permanent resident aliens or all legal resident aliens. 

For out-of-staters, things are confusing, too! The requirement for a pistol license does not apply to: 

A United States citizen holding a license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by another state. 

That gives non-Michigan-resident non-citizens no relief. However, we also have: 

The requirements of this act for obtaining a license to carry a concealed pistol do not apply to any of the following:
...
A resident of another state who is licensed by that state to carry a concealed pistol.


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## Carpman (Mar 30, 2007)

I think i best get myself down to the police this week.
I did talk to the guys at gander mountain this morning, they inform me that as I'm a permanent resident of the USA and can prove that Ive been at the same address for a period of time that its not a problem.
I am looking to take my citizenship this year(after my newborn gets here in May) After thats done I was planing on doing my CCW class, But wanted to get the gun before all of this.

I guess if ive got to wait a year its no big deal for this, but ill still go a head and find out for sure from the state this week.

Thanks for your time guys


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## Ricklb (Aug 16, 2006)

The guy from Gander is right, in order to purchase a hand gun from a FFL dealer in Michigan you will need the permit, your green card and 90 days of some sort of utility bill with your name and address on them. This is April so you will need bills from Jan, Feb, and Mar.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

Ricklb said:


> The guy from Gander is right, in order to purchase a hand gun from a FFL dealer in Michigan you will need the permit, your green card and 90 days of some sort of utility bill with your name and address on them. This is April so you will need bills from Jan, Feb, and Mar.


You do not need utility bills to purchase a handgun in Michigan. What information does that supply anyone anyway? Once you have the purchase permit you are approved.


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## UPhiker (Jul 13, 2008)

petronius said:


> You do not need utility bills to purchase a handgun in Michigan. What information does that supply anyone anyway? Once you have the purchase permit you are approved.


Wrong. The utility (or bank, etc) bills are to establish that you have been a resident for at least 90 days prior to the purchase. You are confusing federal and state requirements. Check the instructions for question 20.c.
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473.pdf

PS-Carpman- Be prepared to be put on "Delay" for at least a couple of hours. Resident Aliens usually are. There's more background checking done, especially the first time.


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## SNAREMAN (Dec 10, 2006)

Carpman said:


> I think i best get myself down to the police this week.
> I did talk to the guys at gander mountain this morning, they inform me that as I'm a permanent resident of the USA and can prove that Ive been at the same address for a period of time that its not a problem.
> I am looking to take my citizenship this year(after my newborn gets here in May) After thats done I was planing on doing my CCW class, But wanted to get the gun before all of this.
> 
> ...


Go to the Michigan Gun Owners web-site and look around in the "legal beagle" forum,if you don't find any ansers,ask your ? there.There are a few attorneys (who KNOW the gun laws)that hang out there.Not saying that the info you have gotten is wrong,but the guys at a gun shop and the police are NOT the people to ask ?'s about gun laws imo.


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## UPhiker (Jul 13, 2008)

SNAREMAN said:


> Go to the Michigan Gun Owners web-site and look around in the "legal beagle" forum,if you don't find any ansers,ask your ? there.There are a few attorneys (who KNOW the gun laws)that hang out there.Not saying that the info you have gotten is wrong,but the guys at a gun shop and the police are NOT the people to ask ?'s about gun laws imo.


You don't need an attorney. You just have to read the section of the 4473 that I mentioned above. I've sold plenty of guns to resident aliens and know what I'm talking about.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

UPhiker said:


> Wrong. The utility (or bank, etc) bills are to establish that you have been a resident for at least 90 days prior to the purchase. You are confusing federal and state requirements. Check the instructions for question 20.c.
> http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473.pdf
> 
> PS-Carpman- Be prepared to be put on "Delay" for at least a couple of hours. Resident Aliens usually are. There's more background checking done, especially the first time.


Ok, I see what you are talking about. For aliens, question 20 c. Documentation for All Aliens, must be filled out on form 4473. However, bank statements, insurance polices, documentation from a government agency, ect. can be used as proof. I was thinking of situations where a person may not have utilities in their name. They may be in their wife's or parents name instead.


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## Carpman (Mar 30, 2007)

I forgot to ask,
Once i fill out this forum and hand it in to get my permit, Do i get this permit the same day or will i need to wait a day/week or so as they check me out, also whats the fee for this permit and do i hand it in at my local Dearborn heights station or the state police?.


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## WoW (Oct 26, 2010)

They could charge you a notary fee so don't sign it there unless you want to pay them. There is no waiting period per se after you pass the test.

After the purchase, you have to turn things in at your local PD


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## Carpman (Mar 30, 2007)

WoW said:


> They could charge you a notary fee so don't sign it there unless you want to pay them. There is no waiting period per se after you pass the test.
> 
> After the purchase, you have to turn things in at your local PD


Where do I start the app, State or local?


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## WoW (Oct 26, 2010)

Carpman said:


> Where do I start the app, State or local?


 
You have to go to your local (either municipal or absent one, the sheriffs dept) PD to get the permit to purchase.

For what it is worth, if I were you, I would get a CPL if I could so that you don't have to mess with the locals to purchase a handgun.


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