# Old growth maple trees for tapping?



## Downriver Tackle (Dec 24, 2004)

I was helping a fiend cut a some wood on his property and noticed he has dozens upon dozens of old growth maples in there. 30"+ diameter trees. Smaller ones also. He gave me permission to tap all I want next year. Is there any problem tapping those old trees? All new to me and still lots of research to do, but figured I better see if the trees are usable first.


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## stickman1978 (Sep 15, 2011)

Sugar Maples are considered the best but any maple will do. The healthier the tree the better. Bigger trees equals more taps which equal more sap which equals more syrup.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

You should visit maple trader.
http://mapletrader.com/community/


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## kroppe (May 7, 2000)

Tap away!


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

Ifthey are veneer quality trees won't taping decrease the value?


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

Definitely do a little reading and ask questions. One thing to consider if you may be tapping on an annual basis is, each year you tap above the prior years location. I believe it's done to maintain a good flow each season.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

I've tapped trees for quite a while, although only as a hobby. I will tell you that you can put at least 2 taps into a tree that is 30" in diameter, and you can get away with 3. I put 4 taps in one very large tree, each year, and have been for the last 15 years, or so. I don't necessarily tap higher every year, but I do tap new holes each year. If you can tap under a large branch, on the south side of the tree, that would be best. Bigger trees hold more sap, and will produce more sap. You will ruin the part of a tree you tap, if someone wants to use it for veneer - but I imagine the friend who offered to let you tap his trees wouldn't have offered if he was worried about ruining trees he wanted to sell for lumber. I would thank him, and offer to give him some of your finished product. If he has acreage, he might be up for letting you put up a Sugar Shack, and do some righteous boiling. 

I will add that hauling a lot of sap very far gets to be a pain in the butt. When sap is running hard, I sometimes harvest 25 gallons/day from 10 taps. 

I used to drive from the Hale area to Alpena quite a bit, to fish for Salmon, and Steelhead. I always marveled at the copses of mature Maple trees I would see in full color in the fall, and often wondered about buying a hill full of Maples, and setting up an operation.


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## Downriver Tackle (Dec 24, 2004)

Fishndude said:


> I've tapped trees for quite a while, although only as a hobby. I will tell you that you can put at least 2 taps into a tree that is 30" in diameter, and you can get away with 3. I put 4 taps in one very large tree, each year, and have been for the last 15 years, or so. I don't necessarily tap higher every year, but I do tap new holes each year. If you can tap under a large branch, on the south side of the tree, that would be best. Bigger trees hold more sap, and will produce more sap. You will ruin the part of a tree you tap, if someone wants to use it for veneer - but I imagine the friend who offered to let you tap his trees wouldn't have offered if he was worried about ruining trees he wanted to sell for lumber. I would thank him, and offer to give him some of your finished product. If he has acreage, he might be up for letting you put up a Sugar Shack, and do some righteous boiling.
> 
> I will add that hauling a lot of sap very far gets to be a pain in the butt. When sap is running hard, I sometimes harvest 25 gallons/day from 10 taps.
> 
> I used to drive from the Hale area to Alpena quite a bit, to fish for Salmon, and Steelhead. I always marveled at the copses of mature Maple trees I would see in full color in the fall, and often wondered about buying a hill full of Maples, and setting up an operation.


Thanks for the info! Let's say I just wanted to go small this year and make maybe a gallon or two. Tap just one or two large trees?


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## cstroh (Jan 3, 2013)

Downriver Tackle said:


> Thanks for the info! Let's say I just wanted to go small this year and make maybe a gallon or two. Tap just one or two large trees?


I've been sapping for 2 years, I run 10 to 15 taps and have finished 3 1/2 gal 1st year 3 gal last season.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Downriver Tackle said:


> Thanks for the info! Let's say I just wanted to go small this year and make maybe a gallon or two. Tap just one or two large trees?


Sure. That will help you get a good idea for how it all works. My best years I finished @ 8.5 gallons of syrup from 10 taps. In bad years I finish about 2.5 gallons from 10 taps. It is a fun thing to do, and it would be easy to get carried away if I had enough time, and the trees to tap.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

I've always thought it would be cool to do. One of my best friends cousin taps a bunch of trees. I was talking to him about it one day, crazy how much it takes to make a finished product!! I have never seen an operation in swing. I'd like to though, I guess I need to take a ride to his place sometime. I have a few big maples in my yard but I doubt they would be enough to tap. I have 5 I believe. Messy bastards I know that much.


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

jiggin is livin said:


> I've always thought it would be cool to do. One of my best friends cousin taps a bunch of trees. I was talking to him about it one day, crazy how much it takes to make a finished product!! I have never seen an operation in swing. I'd like to though, I guess I need to take a ride to his place sometime. I have a few big maples in my yard but I doubt they would be enough to tap. I have 5 I believe. Messy bastards I know that much.


Depending on what big is to you, it is possible that 5 trees would give easily give you plenty sap to boil a couple gallons of syrup. My best producers are trees that grow in the open and have a ton of limbs.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

CHASINEYES said:


> Depending on what big is to you, it is possible that 5 trees would give easily give you plenty sap to boil a couple gallons of syrup. My best producers are trees that grow in the open and have a ton of limbs.


These are my two smallest. 

View attachment 222444


View attachment 222445


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## bobberbill (Apr 5, 2011)

Tapping trees is like milking cows.. Twice a day!! 1 tap for each 12" diameter, and tap above main south facing roots. Research in the 'Out and About' "anybody tapping Maples" thread.. Tons of info.. Old big mature sugars to tap are a true gift..


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

jiggin is livin said:


> These are my two smallest.
> 
> View attachment 222444
> 
> ...


Nice trees. Those two trees would be good for 4 to 5 taps. Some may put more. You have plenty.. I have several trees with multiple trunks like in your second pic. They produce like gangbusters.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

CHASINEYES said:


> Nice trees. Those two trees would be good for 4 to 5 taps. Some may put more. You have plenty.. I have several trees with multiple trunks like in your second pic. They produce like gangbusters.


No kidding. Well I might have to get to know this process a bit better!!


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

jiggin is livin said:


> No kidding. Well I might have to get to know this process a bit better!!


I can't tell if your trees are Red Maple or Sugar Maple from the pics.
You can get sap from the Reds but the Sugars produce more.
I'd get with a local that boils sap. He might be interested in tapping your trees and you might get a half gallon of good syrup out of the deal.
I know a guy who lets one on his property (he has red maples) and gets a gallon each season. Pretty neat process, as they use plastic disposable bags now instead of the spicket and metal bucket of old.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

2508speed said:


> I can't tell if your trees are Red Maple or Sugar Maple from the pics.
> You can get sap from the Reds but the Sugars produce more.
> I'd get with a local that boils sap. He might be interested in tapping your trees and you might get a half gallon of good syrup out of the deal.
> I know a guy who lets one on his property (he has red maples) and gets a gallon each season. Pretty neat process, as they use plastic disposable bags now instead of the spicket and metal bucket of old.


I don't think they are Red's. I don't know for sure though speedy, I bought the house in February. They were all bare and then made a damn mess with seeds. I have one oak that I know for sure, the rest are maple and then Pines. 

Maybe cstroh can come check it out, he knows some of the same people as me and isn't too far. Plus it sounds like he enjoys a few cocktails. If nothing else it will be a good excuse to meet and have a few and maybe learn something. Plus he taps! Oh I'm getting ideas now!!


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

Oh, my neighbor, who cstroh probably knows, has a few maples too. We probably could tap quite a few. I would be happy with just a few gallons a year. Maybe a couple gifts and then a little for us. It's just my girlfriend and I so wouldn't take much. 

Sorry to put you on the spot Corey. Lol


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

Pull a few leaves off the maples. They are distinct between sugar and red maple.
A FYI, Box Elder is in the Maple family. As a kid we would drill a hole and put a straw in and drink the sap.


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## bfierke (Jul 16, 2004)

Couple points .....
Tap around the tree in a circular pattern each year. You don't want to tap near an old tap hole otherwise your production for that year will suffer . Good rule of thumb is over 6" and up 12 " for the second year and then the third year is over 6" and down 12" . Keep working around the entire tree this way to maintain a good healthy tapable maple for years and years ! Yes , you WILL get just as much sap from the north or south side of the tree so use the entire tree. 

I tap some huge sugars as well as some as small as 10" in diameter. Of those big ones , a few of the healthier sugars will get 3 taps . Never anything more .


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

We had to cut a big white birch to build a cottage one spring during a sap time. You could not believe the flow of sap coming out of the tree when it was cut. Had I known I would have tapped it for a while before we cut it.

My nephew worked for a guy one spring making birch syrup out side of Fairbanks Alaska. He sent me some. It had sort of a mild molasses taste. It was bottled small bottles to be sold to the tourists as souvenirs. 

Coming from a logging saw mill family I hate seeing prime maple being tapped. One logger lost his keester when he bought an old sap woods as the bottom logs were crate lumber from the staining from the taps. Had he known he would have discounted his bid on the timber and cut the trees well above the old tap line.


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## chuckinduck (May 28, 2003)

jiggin is livin said:


> I don't think they are Red's. I don't know for sure though speedy, I bought the house in February. They were all bare and then made a damn mess with seeds. I have one oak that I know for sure, the rest are maple and then Pines.
> 
> Maybe cstroh can come check it out, he knows some of the same people as me and isn't too far. Plus it sounds like he enjoys a few cocktails. If nothing else it will be a good excuse to meet and have a few and maybe learn something. Plus he taps! Oh I'm getting ideas now!!


Post a pic of the leaf. Reds and sugars are very different in their leaf. The lobes of a red are very serrated and less distinct.


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## bobberbill (Apr 5, 2011)

color code the trees in the fall. Get a couple cans of spray paint. Bright yellow leaves--sugar maples --yellow paint dot, red leaves--red paint dots.... Makes it easy in Feb when you start tappin..


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

bobberbill said:


> color code the trees in the fall. Get a couple cans of spray paint. Bright yellow leaves--sugar maples --yellow paint dot, red leaves--red paint dots.... Makes it easy in Feb when you start tappin..


My red maples have yellow leaves in the fall. So not so true. I'd say look at the leaves when they are green to determine the tree.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

multibeard said:


> We had to cut a big white birch to build a cottage one spring during a sap time. You could not believe the flow of sap coming out of the tree when it was cut. Had I known I would have tapped it for a while before we cut it.
> 
> My nephew worked for a guy one spring making birch syrup out side of Fairbanks Alaska. He sent me some. It had sort of a mild molasses taste. It was bottled small bottles to be sold to the tourists as souvenirs.
> 
> Coming from a logging saw mill family I hate seeing prime maple being tapped. One logger lost his keester when he bought an old sap woods as the bottom logs were crate lumber from the staining from the taps. Had he known he would have discounted his bid on the timber and cut the trees well above the old tap line.


Logger that lost his keester should have marketed that bottom log to the craft people. They pay money for that staining..
You know that as well as I do. Loggers never make money.


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## bfierke (Jul 16, 2004)

jiggin is livin said:


> These are my two smallest.
> 
> View attachment 222444
> 
> ...


The second pic is not a sugar , either a red or silver . Not sure on the first pic , need a close up of the bark or leaf. Really doesn't matter tho, tap them both ! Another way to tell is the seeds ( samara ) of the red and silver will drop in June where as the sugar drops in the fall. 

Red maples can produce lots of sap and also make great syrup. However , they usually will bud out first making the season shorter where sugars will bud the last of the maples.


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

Had the logger known that the woods had been a sugar bush he would have taken that into consideration when he bid on the timber. The owner would have gotten way less money.

Knowing of the possible staining in advance he would have cut 5 foot off the first log instead of making the cut 8 foot up from the base of the tree putting the stained lumber in the first log losing him big $$.

I do not know why the nasty remark about loggers. All the loggers we milled lumber for were good guys.


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## cstroh (Jan 3, 2013)

jiggin is livin said:


> Oh, my neighbor, who cstroh probably knows, has a few maples too. We probably could tap quite a few. I would be happy with just a few gallons a year. Maybe a couple gifts and then a little for us. It's just my girlfriend and I so wouldn't take much.
> 
> Sorry to put you on the spot Corey. Lol


All good, I'm in to show ya what I know.


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## cstroh (Jan 3, 2013)

If it's a maple I'll tap it!!

I tap my buddies wood lot, lots of maple but only 
a few sugars. All eats the same to me!

Get with me jiggin, start browsing Mapletrader.com and collecting good clean buckets with lids.

I had less than 100$ into my start up operation.


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## kroppe (May 7, 2000)

The trees in the photos look like reds to me but hard to tell for sure without seeing them. Sugars have distinctive bark that you can identify after becoming familiar with the different varieties. Sugar maples have "plate like" bark. Look at large old trees along the road in farming areas. For example in southern Newaygo County/northern Kent County. Look at those old trees and when you see younger sugars you will notice the resemblance.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

View attachment 222724
View attachment 222725


Seems to me they are all the same type. Whatever it may be. Do these pics help?


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## kroppe (May 7, 2000)

Not sugars. Most likely red. I say this because the leaf appears generally small and lacking 5 strongly defined lobes. The bark also appears to me narrowly plated where to my eye the sugars have wide plates curling away from the tree at the edge of the plates.

Google "Acer rubrum USDA" and you will find the species account.

Red maples produce sap that can be made into syrup. The sap to syrup ratio is higher than sugars and the trees produce less sap per tree per season than sugars. I tapped 10 or so reds in Connecticut a few years ago and the syrup was good.


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

kroppe said:


> Not sugars. Most likely red. I say this because the leaf appears generally small and lacking 5 strongly defined lobes. The bark also appears to me narrowly plated where to my eye the sugars have wide plates curling away from the tree at the edge of the plates.
> 
> Google "Acer rubrum USDA" and you will find the species account.
> 
> Red maples produce sap that can be made into syrup. The sap to syrup ratio is higher than sugars and the trees produce less sap per tree per season than sugars. I tapped 10 or so reds in Connecticut a few years ago and the syrup was good.


It does appear to be a Red leaf that Jiggin has displayed. Leaf I.D is at the end.
http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/differences-between-hard-maple-and-soft-maple/


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

Red is a soft maple, but you can still get plenty of sap and syrup. I have a couple acres of silver maples and only tap a handful. I have access to all the sugars I can handle at my dads, but I just tap silvers here at my home to keep it a daily family activity. Here is one of my better producers. Leaves get bigger than the one pictured.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

Ok then I would say I have all Red's. The leaves are all similar although vary in sizes. I honestly never knew there were so many varieties of maples. Cool stuff.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

jiggin is livin said:


> View attachment 222724
> View attachment 222725
> 
> 
> Seems to me they are all the same type. Whatever it may be. Do these pics help?


Red Maple. I just pulled a leaf of one of mine.
I also have those brown spots with a dot in the middle.

Anyone know what those are?

Also mine seem to turn bright yellow in the fall.


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