# CO bullied my son.



## buckman66 (Nov 3, 2004)

Each year the one thing we look forward to more than anything is deer camp. Although deer numbers are way way down in our area it’s still about the experience being in da UP that we love.
The week prior to rifle season a few older retired camp members came up early to prepare blinds, bait a few stands and enjoy the camp.
My son came up the morning of 11/11. Stopped in town and purchased his liscense and proceeded to camp. He then ate lunch and headed to the woods with crossbow in hand. About 3:50pm central time a 7pt came in and he shot it. Waited 30 minutes and picked up the trail. About 20 minutes later he found his deer. His first ever with a bow. He was elated!!!! It was now dark so he tagged and field dressed the deer. Took a little longer as this was his first deer he field dressed by himself. He was a good mile from his car and decided to put his hunting jacket over the deer to protect it from predators and come back in the am with a deer cart for a easier exodus from the woods.
Fast forward to yesterday 12/1 when I get a call from a CO asking to have my son “John” call CO “JOE” about a 4 wheeler complaint. (My son did not use a 4 Wheeler) he walked in.
My son called immediately. Once on the phone, CO JOE started interegating him. His line of questioning centered around that he did not believe my son purchased the liscense the same day he shot the deer. He kept my son on the phone for 55 minutes and still refused to get off the phone before my son hung up on him. He kept saying over and over “I find it hard to believe you shot that deer a few hours after buying your tag. Just tell me the truth”.
My son was so shaken up after the phone call it pretty much ruined any great memories of his first archery harvest. The CO was demanding he send pics of the deer that night in the Woods. He then asked who else in camp shot deer? 
I feel really bad and angry this happened. This was not a CO “doing his job” This was someone who tried to scare and intimidate a young man hoping the hunter in fact may have illegally harvested the deer. He was on a Phishing expedition. I’m not sure if there is a “complaint” department but I will be looking into it. Our camp is not perfect but Ive instilled ethics in my kids and we follow all game laws to the best of our ability. We were planning on heading back this weekend for muzzle loader but both of us are so upset we decided not to go.

Buckman


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## HitFactor (Oct 19, 2021)

I'm glad your son had a good hunt. Those 'first' are always memorable.

There are two sides to every story. Might be easier to just move on with your life.


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## Sharkbait11 (Apr 7, 2017)

Absolutely report it. 

My brother was moose hunting and they got pulled over at the side of the road. One of the guys in truck a young kid had a loaded magazine in his gun. CO took the gun and told him he was going to write a ticket. Handed the gun to another CO who was examining it and he racked the bolt and then gave it back to the kid. One of the seniors in the group chewed out the CO and said if you write this young man a ticket were calling the authorities as you just handed a loaded gun back to him. CO ripped up the ticket and hightailed it out of there. Even COs can have a bad day.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

buckman66 said:


> ...........
> Fast forward to yesterday 12/1 when I get a call from a CO asking to have my son “John” call CO “JOE” about a 4 wheeler complaint. (My son did not use a 4 Wheeler) he walked in.
> My son called immediately............


Any idea how he got your phone number ?
If this had been your 1st post, my guess would have been that you were just trolling. Maybe should have said good bye after 5-6 minutes ???

L & O


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

A couple years ago I bought tags the day before and killed a buck a few minutes into light the first sit. Rare, sure. Automatically a lie, heeeeeelllll no


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## Hillsdales Most Wanted (Jul 17, 2015)

F that!!!!!
BS!!!! I hate even reading that post

Did your son do the mandatory reporting? That's my guess on how they knew when he bought license then reported the kill


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

If he calls back, you should ask him what the problem is . If everything is on the up and up, don't sweat it .
Some Law enforcement think they will scare you into confessing, or just let you ramble until you say something that can be used against you.


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

Good learning opportunity for your camp. 

Yes officer I purchased my license and then several hours later harvested a deer. Thank you and have a good day. 

Hang up


How old is your son? Younger than 18?

Why did the DNR have your number and not his?


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## Scratchy87 (Jan 11, 2019)

My experience is that CO’s don’t give out their numbers to call you back on. Otherwise people would try calling them directly instead of the RAP line.


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## buckman66 (Nov 3, 2004)

Liver and Onions said:


> Any idea how he got your phone number ?
> If this had been your 1st post, my guess would have been that you were just trolling. Maybe should have said good bye after 5-6 minutes ???
> 
> L & O


My son was so nervous and scared he didn’t know what to do. Hard for a young man to hang up on a officer.


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## buckman66 (Nov 3, 2004)

bowhunter426 said:


> Good learning opportunity for your camp.
> 
> Yes officer I purchased my license and then several hours later harvested a deer. Thank you and have a good day.
> 
> ...


He is 22. He didn’t know what to do. He was caught off guard. He didn’t see this coming as he did nothing wrong.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Maybe the problem was hunting central time in Michigan lol


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## buckman66 (Nov 3, 2004)

Scratchy87 said:


> My experience is that CO’s don’t give out their numbers to call you back on. Otherwise people would try calling them directly instead of the RAP line.


Private message me your phone number and I’ll send you his Voice message if you don’t believe me.


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## Sharkbait11 (Apr 7, 2017)

buckman66 said:


> Private message me your phone number and I’ll send you his Voice message if you don’t believe me.


post it here...not private info really


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## buckman66 (Nov 3, 2004)

Hillsdales Most Wanted said:


> F that!!!!!
> BS!!!! I hate even reading that post
> 
> Did your son do the mandatory reporting? That's my guess on how they knew when he bought license then reported the kill


yes He reported it


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

sureshot006 said:


> A couple years ago I bought tags the day before and killed a buck a few minutes into the first sit. Rare, sure. Automatically a lie, heeeeeelllll no


I have definately done this with turkey. More than once.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## Scratchy87 (Jan 11, 2019)

buckman66 said:


> Private message me your phone number and I’ll send you his Voice message if you don’t believe me.



I’m not saying I don’t believe you. I’m just speaking about personal experience which I won’t get into so this doesn’t derail. Maybe this guy isn’t who he says he is. I don’t know your situation but does it make sense a CO has your number? I mean no harm in that question because if you don’t have a CO contact already then I would 1st question how he got your number to begin with.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Scratchy87 said:


> I’m not saying I don’t believe you. I’m just speaking about personal experience which I won’t get into so this doesn’t derail. Maybe this guy isn’t who he says he is. I don’t know your situation but does it make sense a CO has your number? I mean no harm in that question because if you don’t have a CO contact already then I would 1st question how he got your number to begin with.


My first guess is owner of the land the location pin was dropped on.


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

buckman66 said:


> Private message me your phone number and I’ll send you his Voice message if you don’t believe me.


Not doubting you but we had some bullets hit our house 2 years ago and neither the DNR or Cop left me with phone numbers. I have a business card from my local DNR. I will dig it up and see if it has a number.

Look up the phone number. See if it is maybe registered to a disgruntled neighbor.

Sorry this happened to him.


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## Bucman (Jun 29, 2016)

Probably spoofed! There is no law against hanging up.


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## buckman66 (Nov 3, 2004)

Here is the voice transcription of the Voice mail. I have no interest in making up a story like this. I’m 56 years old and have better things to do.
Transcription

"Hello this is a conservation officer that way and I'm calling from Michigan I was looking for John I believe he said was Bob but um ljust
might've talk to him I was hung up here and I just want to touch base with them um just a I know we talked to them about driving a 4 wheeler

I believe it was John him so if you could have John give me a call back I'd be great um it's nothing major just want to touch base with them and get on the same page so my number is 906 —- ——thank you..."


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## GregRM (Aug 22, 2018)

Yeah, that's not okay. No reason for the officer to spend that much time interrogating him, assuming he kept asking the same or similar questions. 

In my opinion, this may be a "prove it" situation if it was me and I knew I did nothing wrong. 

It really bums me out knowing that CO is the reason you guys aren't hunting this weekend, but I get it.


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## Scratchy87 (Jan 11, 2019)

sureshot006 said:


> My first guess is owner of the land the location pin was dropped on.



Very possible. I guess my mind always goes to public land when guys talk about UP deer camps.


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## Ieatshrooms (Sep 19, 2019)

I often buy doe tags on my way out to shoot one, I had this exact fear this year with the mandatory reporting. I bet they have a CO calling all reported deer killed the same day of purchase. Total BS and overreaching if that's the case.


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## Bucman (Jun 29, 2016)

He is 22.


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

buckman66 said:


> Here is the voice transcription of the Voice mail. I have no interest in making up a story like this. I’m 56 years old and have better things to do.
> Transcription
> 
> "Hello this is a conservation officer that way and I'm calling from Michigan I was looking for John I believe he said was Bob but um ljust
> ...


Didn't name himself or you took it out? 

906-353-6651

Or 

906-293-5131


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

LEOs can ask all the question they like. You can choose to answer all, some or none. Lesson learned for the young man.

Since he was given a number to call please post it. You never know when anyone needs to call directly to a CO. He should be a good source of info on game laws. We see members asking legal questions all the time. It can be the M-S help line on any interpretation of the hunting digest. Maybe a sticky would be in order.


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## buckman66 (Nov 3, 2004)

bowhunter426 said:


> Not doubting you but we had some bullets hit our house 2 years ago and neither the DNR or Cop left me with phone numbers. I have a business card from my local DNR. I will dig it up and see if it has a number.
> 
> Look up the phone number. See if it is maybe registered to a disgruntled neighbor.
> 
> Sorry this happened to him.


I looked him up based on his name he left on VM
He started in August. Was a Michigan State Trooper prior.


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## buckman66 (Nov 3, 2004)

bowhunter426 said:


> Didn't name himself or you took it out?


I took it out


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## GregRM (Aug 22, 2018)

bowhunter426 said:


> Yes officer I purchased my license and then several hours later harvested a deer. Thank you and have a good day.
> 
> Hang up


Agreed.


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

Easy enough to find out if it was an actual CO. Obviously he gave a name. Call the local district headquarters and ask to speak with the officer in charge.


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## Bucman (Jun 29, 2016)

Ieatshrooms said:


> I often buy doe tags on my way out to shoot one, I had this exact fear this year with the mandatory reporting. I bet they have a CO calling all reported deer killed the same day of purchase. Total BS and overreaching if that's the case.


I'm going to do it and see what happens. Purchase at noon report at 3ish. I'll post results before season closes. Others should test the theory also.


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

Better yet purchase it as 8pm snd then report your kill at 9pm. See what happens


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## Calhoun Archer (Feb 18, 2021)

Don't stop hunting it doesn't sound like you did anything wrong it was the CO who was wrong Don't let him ruin it for you ir your son get back out there and have fun


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Luv2hunteup said:


> ..........
> Since he was given a number to call please post it. You never know when anyone needs to call directly to a CO.................................


Yep, I think a bunch of us should give him a call and chat about rules that concern us.

L & O


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

buckman66 said:


> My son was so nervous and scared he didn’t know what to do. Hard for a young man to hang up on a officer.


Right, it would be. So you were not standing there listening when he called back ? I was thinking you were since you said he called back immediately.

L & O


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

There are two sides to every story. Seems to be a lot of pointing at the CO because of only one side of the story. Pretty sure we will never get his side but just think about it.


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## buckman66 (Nov 3, 2004)

Liver and Onions said:


> Right, it would be. So you were not standing there listening when he called back ? I was thinking you were since you said he called back immediately.
> 
> L & O


My son lives in a different house than me.


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## Sharkbait11 (Apr 7, 2017)

Scratchy87 said:


> I’m not saying I don’t believe you. I’m just speaking about personal experience which I won’t get into so this doesn’t derail. Maybe this guy isn’t who he says he is. I don’t know your situation but does it make sense a CO has your number? I mean no harm in that question because if you don’t have a CO contact already then I would 1st question how he got your number to begin with.


a CO has access to everything the police do...its obviously complaint drive by a landowner or other hunter so they probably have a license plate and then dug in further and got his contact info. Pretty sure when you register an account with DNR to buy license you put your contact info in including drivers license.


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## Sam22 (Jan 22, 2003)

Had something similar happen a few years ago. I shot a great buck October first. My friend came on Oct 4th, he bought his tag at the local.gas station just before getting to the cabin. I had everything ready and we went out to a box blind together. 3 year old 8 pt walked out at 430 and he drilled it. He had bought the tags at like noon.

A CO visited the taxidermist, then visited my friend, then me. He asked me about Facebook pictures, said he was suspicious that the tag was from the same day ect. I was honest and verified my friends story, we are very by the book. I was surprised they went through such lengths to investigate because it must happen all the time. During rifle season, I bet 1/3 of the guys buy their tags the night before. 

Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## GregRM (Aug 22, 2018)

sparky18181 said:


> There are two sides to every story. Seems to be a lot of pointing at the CO because of only one side of the story. Pretty sure we will never get his side but just think about it.


Innocent until proven guilty. Exactly.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

GregRM said:


> You don't take phone calls from a law enforcement officer seriously?


Only when it’s my Dad.


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

RHRoss said:


> Only when it’s my Dad.


Took it serious one time when my unlicensed son took my daughters car to go for Taco Bell at about two in the morning and got caught. Needless to say that didn’t go to well for my son when I got there to pick him up. They only asked that I didn’t kill him in front of them.


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## GregRM (Aug 22, 2018)

jr28schalm said:


> I won't take any mo fo seriously if there not looking in my eyes talking to me. I'd most likely say fu ck off and hang up


I get that. But I wouldn't like some over ambitious goofball threatening my hunting privileges/finances by insinuating I did something illegal if I haven't. 

Everyone develops a realistic view of law enforcement and their officers at some point. Maybe this situation just did it for this guy.

He did hang up on him, it just took a minute.


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## shell waster (Nov 5, 2004)

lawyer and sue CO for slander...its one thing to say an opinion it's another to accuse someone of committing a crime. if someone accuses you of a crime the burden of damaging your reputation is implied. 

before that I would schedule an appointment with the Co's superior or email him..nothing like a paper trail, talk is cheap.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

sparky18181 said:


> Took it serious one time when my unlicensed son took my daughters car to go for Taco Bell at about two in the morning and got caught. Needless to say that didn’t go to well for my son when I got there to pick him up. They only asked that I didn’t kill him in front of them.


I’m glad that you at least experienced it, now ya have memories forever, lol. My Dad has lots of stories that are similar, many, as I was a wild one myself.


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

RHRoss said:


> I’m glad that you at least experienced it, now ya have memories forever, lol. My Dad has lots of stories that are similar, many, as I was a wild one myself.


Hope his sons don’t do the same but if they do I ll laugh my ass off


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

GregRM said:


> I get that. But I wouldn't like some over ambitious goofball threatening my hunting privileges/finances by insinuating I did something illegal if I haven't.
> 
> Everyone develops a realistic view of law enforcement and their officers at some point. Maybe this situation just did it for this guy.
> 
> He did hang up on him, it just took a minute.


Some are, Most are not, though I can say that 1 or 2 bad experiences have a tendency to mold a mindset. Majority are good people doing a difficult job.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

shell waster said:


> lawyer and sue CO for slander...its one thing to say an opinion it's another to accuse someone of committing a crime. if someone accuses you of a crime the burden of damaging your reputation is implied.
> 
> before that I would schedule an appointment with the Co's superior or email him..nothing like a paper trail, talk is cheap.


Waste of time and money to Sue an officer for a minuscule encounter as he is warranted some protections. Making a complaint to the supervisor on the other hand is the way to get what ya seek


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

sparky18181 said:


> Hope his sons don’t do the same but if they do I ll laugh my ass off


Absolutely, it’s reverse right of passage.


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## GregRM (Aug 22, 2018)

RHRoss said:


> Some are, Most are not, though I can say that 1 or 2 bad experiences have a tendency to mold a mindset. Majority are good people doing a difficult job.


I completely agree with that. Majority of experiences I've had with law enforcement we're good. 
But that's what I mean by realistic, nothing is perfect. 
You still have to guard and protect yourself while not blindly trusting anyone with a badge.


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## GregRM (Aug 22, 2018)

RHRoss said:


> Majority are good people doing a difficult job.


Yup. I'm sure its more difficult now than it ever has been. 
I support law enforcement and respect the job. 
But I respect myself too.


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## Tilden Hunter (Jun 14, 2018)

Luv2hunteup said:


> LEOs can ask all the question they like. You can choose to answer all, some or none. Lesson learned for the young man.
> 
> Since he was given a number to call please post it. You never know when anyone needs to call directly to a CO. He should be a good source of info on game laws. We see members asking legal questions all the time. It can be the M-S help line on any interpretation of the hunting digest. Maybe a sticky would be in order.


Where's Boehr (sp?) when you need him?


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

GregRM said:


> Yup. I'm sure its more difficult now than it ever has been.
> I support law enforcement and respect the job.
> But I respect myself too.


As you should respect yourself, think about doing a high stress job for 60 hours a week, seeing and dealing with the worst people all shift long, add in the normal stresses of life.


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Tilden Hunter said:


> Where's Boehr (sp?) when you need him?


He’s been banned from the site for many years. 🙂


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## GregRM (Aug 22, 2018)

RHRoss said:


> As you should respect yourself, think about doing a high stress job for 60 hours a week, seeing and dealing with the worst people all shift long, add in the normal stresses of life.


Absolutely. I'm not taking anything away from them.


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## Tilden Hunter (Jun 14, 2018)

dead short said:


> He’s been banned from the site for many years. 🙂


When I came back under a different handle after many years away I was shocked and disappointed to find that out.

We still haven't established that the call was actually from a CO.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

Tilden Hunter said:


> When I came back under a different handle after many years away I was shocked and disappointed to find that out.
> 
> We still haven't established that the call was actually from a CO.


Yup, It sounds abit fishy to me.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Seems an actual CO would want to visit you on short or no notice, not call and ask questions.


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## mofo (Oct 9, 2009)

Told a co to Have a coke and a smile and shut the f. up ,once when I was rabbit hunting years ago on private land. he said I was trespassing had to give him the what’s up on who owned it “me” lmao


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

sureshot006 said:


> Seems an actual CO would want to visit you on short or no notice, not call and ask questions.


That’s the Normal procedure.


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

3X8 said:


> Looks like you can't swing a cat by the tail without hitting a lawyer in this thread lol


When the sirens go off, the sidewalk attorneys rise from the pavement.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

FREEPOP said:


> Convicted innocent?


Innocent people are convicted of capital crimes (murder,rape) , here and there


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## GregRM (Aug 22, 2018)

dead short said:


> When the sirens go off, the sidewalk attorneys rise from the pavement.


Lol. Don't make me start citing case law! Then I'll really sound like a armchair attorney


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## Night Moves (Jan 28, 2021)

In the State of Michigan, there is no Stop and ID law. That means a police officer can’t demand to see your identification unless they have reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed. LEOs that try to get around that law are not behaving ethically and legally, but it is a common practice.


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## retired dundo (Jul 21, 2015)

stickbow shooter said:


> You don't invite them to your house or worse yet into it lol.


Why I’d rather talk in person


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## Biggbear (Aug 14, 2001)

I've watched the show Wardens on the Outdoor Channel several times. This show follows Michigan CO's from around the state. This tactic of keeping someone talking is a common one. For whatever reason the CO was suspicious of the circumstances. As has been mentioned by keeping your son talking he may just change his story, or trip over his words. May even cave in and confess which is what the CO was hoping for. The CO didn't follow up with an in person visit so he must have believed your Son in the end. I've seen many times on that show the CO's keep the person talking and they end up getting the person to say what they need. Why do you thing LEO's ask "do you know why I pulled you over" when they walk up to your vehicle window. The vast majority of people will say something like " I guess I may have been going a little fast?" Bingo a confession. If they fight the ticket in court, they officer can say they confessed. 55 minutes is a long time to endure this tactic, I would have reiterated my story a couple times at most and then told the CO he had to do whatever he felt was right. I wouldn't have kept explaining myself for an hour. I get that it sucks to be looked at with suspicion when you've done nothing wrong ( I had a similar situation with a CO like that earlier this year). If you see the CO reports on their website is shows them catching people buying tags after they killed their deer all the time, over and over they catch people doing this. I would guess this CO thought he had yet another one of those situations and was trying to get a confession. I would guess it's easy for people in law enforcement to forget that there are times people really are innocent. They see so many guilty people it must seem like everyone is guilty after doing that job for very long. Just my .02 cents.


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## whackem (Sep 16, 2009)

Don't talk to police or CO'S. Just say, " With all do respect, I don't talk to police " period. The talking is done in court. If he has proof, he'll arrest if not ...good bye! Remember, it's not illegal for officers to lie to you. Any lawyer will tell ya don't talk, even if you did nothing wrong. Cops are NOT your friend. 

Sent from my SM-S906U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## UPEsox (Feb 2, 2018)

Sounds like the county sheriff that pulled me over in Iowa when I was in college. Said speeding ticket had to ne paid on the spot or go to jail.......ticket never showwd up on my license.


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## mmac1318 (Feb 5, 2007)

sureshot006 said:


> Seems an actual CO would want to visit you on short or no notice, not call and ask questions.


If you watch any of the TV shows that follow DNR/fish and game they call all the time to feel things out. Then sometimes they physically go to the person.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

mmac1318 said:


> If you watch any of the TV shows that follow DNR/fish and game they call all the time to feel things out. Then sometimes they physically go to the person.


I don't. Heck I am not sure I'd trust what is real or staged anyway.


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## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

Biggbear said:


> * If you see the CO reports on their website is shows them catching people buying tags after they killed their deer all the time, over and over they catch people doing this*.


The ones I read about is they are tagged the same day they buy the tag.
The problem is that it was purchased after legal shooting time.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

Night Moves said:


> In the State of Michigan, there is no Stop and ID law. That means a police officer can’t demand to see your identification unless they have reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed. LEOs that try to get around that law are not behaving ethically and legally, but it is a common practice.


A police office can not demand ID unless they believed a crime has been committed or is about to be committed, but a DNR CO can demand to see your ID.

Page 9 of the Hunting Digest.

Hunters must possess qualifying credentials and/or identification that may be required for certain license purchases. When hunting or trapping, you must carry your license and present it upon demand of a Michigan conservation officer, a tribal conservation officer or any law enforcement officer.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

I told a County Sheriff deputy to get off my property or I would call and report him, told him he was now trespassing as I have asked him to leave my property. IDK if anything would actually stick, but you don't have to talk to them. They don't have the right to be in your business without a warrant, even following up on a complaint. I would definitely hang up on one if I was done talking to them. It is a situation that should have never happened, but unfortunately a lot of people trip up do to fear and sometimes LEO's use that to drum up business.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

Sam22 said:


> Had something similar happen a few years ago. I shot a great buck October first. My friend came on Oct 4th, he bought his tag at the local.gas station just before getting to the cabin. I had everything ready and we went out to a box blind together. 3 year old 8 pt walked out at 430 and he drilled it. He had bought the tags at like noon.
> 
> A CO visited the taxidermist, then visited my friend, then me. He asked me about Facebook pictures, said he was suspicious that the tag was from the same day ect. I was honest and verified my friends story, we are very by the book. I was surprised they went through such lengths to investigate because it must happen all the time. During rifle season, I bet 1/3 of the guys buy their tags the night before.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S908U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


It is stupid, but there are a lot of stupid people that get caught doing just this. They follow every easy avenue they can, some just don't pan out. It is all about the $$$$.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

Night Moves said:


> In the State of Michigan, there is no Stop and ID law. That means a police officer can’t demand to see your identification unless they have reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed. LEOs that try to get around that law are not behaving ethically and legally, but it is a common practice.


But common sense should tell ya, if your stopped, there is suspicion or ya wouldnt have been stopped in the first place. The Police just dont do random stops.


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## Tom (mich) (Jan 17, 2003)

This might just be the longest thread ever on MS that originated from what almost certainly appears to be nothing but a prank. NS's "gullible" statement comes to mind.


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## whackem (Sep 16, 2009)

The best way to protect yourself from aggressive law enforcement tactics is to know your rights. Lots of video on this subject on YouTube. Educate yourself. 

Sent from my SM-S906U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

@Shoeman has a way to handle this and I was with him one day when he did it. Still makes me giggle and reading this thread made me remember it like it was yesterday. I'll leave it up to Shoeman to tell the details if he wants too.....


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

whackem said:


> The best way to protect yourself from aggressive law enforcement tactics is to know your rights. Lots of video on this subject on YouTube. Educate yourself.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S906U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Or dont break the law


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Tom (mich) said:


> This might just be the longest thread ever on MS that originated from what almost certainly appears to be nothing but a prank. NS's "gullible" statement comes to mind.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Night Moves said:


> All you need on you is your hunting license if you are hunting unless you will be driving too. I have been checked a bunch of times and have never been asked for my drivers license. A lot of hunters don't even have ID.


I dont recall reading the part about driving being prerequisite to needing the ID matching the license.


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

The guide says: "When hunting or trapping, you must carry your license and present it upon demand of a Michigan conservation officer, a tribal conservation officer or any law enforcement officer."

And the back of a license says: "When hunting, trapping, or fishing, you must carry your license and the identification used to purchase that license and must exhibit both upon demand of a conservation officer, a tribal conservation officer, or any other law enforcement officer."

So that clears it up nicely.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

brookie1 said:


> The guide says: "When hunting or trapping, you must carry your license and present it upon demand of a Michigan conservation officer, a tribal conservation officer or any law enforcement officer."
> 
> And the back of a license says: "When hunting, trapping, or fishing, you must carry your license and the identification used to purchase that license and must exhibit both upon demand of a conservation officer, a tribal conservation officer, or any other law enforcement officer."
> 
> So that clears it up nicely.


I just thought, our drivers license number is on our hunting and fishing license, so they probably just check the computer when they’re runnin ya


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

RHRoss said:


> when they’re runnin ya


What does this mean? The one time I was checked for a license while hunting I just handed over my license, he handed it back, and I left. I never said a word and neither did he. I have never been checked fishing.


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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

brookie1 said:


> What does this mean? The one time I was checked for a license while hunting I just handed over my license, he handed it back, and I left. I never said a word and neither did he. I have never been checked fishing.


Been checked many times fishing and duck hunting.
Only presented game licenses, never ID.
I get wet so much duck hunting I stopped carrying my wallet years ago.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

brookie1 said:


> What does this mean? The one time I was checked for a license while hunting I just handed over my license, he handed it back, and I left. I never said a word and neither did he. I have never been checked fishing.


It means what I said, IDK, just thinking. Ya know, sometimes I think, not often, but , sometimes


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## gatorman841 (Mar 4, 2010)

Night Moves said:


> All you need on you is your hunting license if you are hunting unless you will be driving too. I have been checked a bunch of times and have never been asked for my drivers license. A lot of hunters don't even have ID.


Then how do they buy a hunting or fishing license with no id?


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## Sharkbait11 (Apr 7, 2017)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> Name this POS. So the next member here who interacts with him can ask him about it.
> 
> I posted a rant about officer Mshar on American Tackle's website and it got back to him. Next time he tried really hard to find a reason to write me a ticket without success, it came up. He didn't appreciate it. Told him if he was civil and polite I wouldn't have to have to say disparaging things about him.


Yeah can't hurt to give up his name its public information. Had a Border Patrol who was standing on shore kick me off the US side jigging the D a few years ago and said I needed some form since Im from Canada. So I started a thread about it on here and low and behold the same agent that spoke to me was on MS and tried telling me the same thing so I called him out about the physical encounter. I contacted his superiors and they told me he was wrong and no form was needed (I knew it anyway but respected his direction in the moment). I posted it on here for all to see the guys name and the response from his department. Then he disappeared from MS never to be seen again unless started a new user name. I think I was in his jigging spot (I was pre-fishing the one and only MS walleye tourny) and he likely tried scaring me off. All I did was go 400 yards down river and kept fishing since I knew he was wrong. Unfortunately not everyone is as educated as they should be for their job.


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

gatorman841 said:


> Then how do they buy a hunting or fishing license with no id?


I think he mean't when they are actually hunting or fishing they may not carry id.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Jerry Lamb said:


> Been checked many times fishing and duck hunting.
> Only presented game licenses, never ID.
> I get wet so much duck hunting I stopped carrying my wallet years ago.


Them not asking does not mean it isn't required.


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## Yankee#1 (Jun 3, 2015)

brookie1 said:


> The guide says: "When hunting or trapping, you must carry your license and present it upon demand of a Michigan conservation officer, a tribal conservation officer or any law enforcement officer."
> 
> And the back of a license says: "When hunting, trapping, or fishing, you must carry your license and the identification used to purchase that license and must exhibit both upon demand of a conservation officer, a tribal conservation officer, or any other law enforcement officer."
> 
> So that clears it up nicely.


I carry this years and last years license, which is what I show the clerk to purchase my license and tags. 

Neither have a picture…so what exactly did that section clarify in your mind?


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

Yankee#1 said:


> I carry this years and last years license, which is what I show the clerk to purchase my license and tags.
> 
> Neither have a picture…so what exactly did that section clarify in your mind?
> 
> ...


I was pointing out that the guide says one thing and the back of a license says something else for the requirements when being checked for a license by law enforcement. It also clarifies that you have no ability to recognize sarcasm. And since the topic was being checked for a license, not purchasing, it also clarifies that your reading comprehension is suspect.


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

RHRoss said:


> I just thought, our drivers license number is on our hunting and fishing license, so they probably just check the computer when they’re runnin ya


They don't use your DL# any longer.


Jerry Lamb said:


> Been checked many times fishing and duck hunting.
> Only presented game licenses, never ID.
> I get wet so much duck hunting I stopped carrying my wallet years ago.


Next time out, send the dog to do the retrieves.


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## Yankee#1 (Jun 3, 2015)

brookie1 said:


> I was pointing out that the guide says one thing and the back of a license says something else. It also clarifies that you have no ability to recognize sarcasm.


I try to read objectively without tone, inflection or emotion. You should try it, you might realize I was asking a legit question. 

Now on the other hand, if I say -

Go drag your butthurt self across the wet leaves like my beagle does after she unleashes a round of the runny honeynut scooters.

Hopefully you’re obviously high IQ helps you realize the sarcasm AND insult I threw into the statement. 

FYI, I would never say that, my highly intelligent beagle would hate me for saying she’s butthurt.


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

Yankee#1 said:


> I try to read objectively without tone, inflection or emotion. You should try it, you might realize I was asking a legit question.
> 
> Now on the other hand, if I say -
> 
> ...


Well I'm sure your beagle is annoyed with your clear lack of intelligence and silently wishes for a new owner.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

Nostromo said:


> They don't use your DL# any longer.
> 
> Next time out, send the dog to do the retrieves.


It’s not listed on the tag anymore?


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

RHRoss said:


> It’s not listed on the tag anymore?


It's still there with the exception of the last 3 digits. Not sure what that statement was about.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

brookie1 said:


> It's still there with the exception of the last 3 digits. Not sure what that statement was about.


It was a question to someone else’s statement,see the quote


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## Yankee#1 (Jun 3, 2015)

brookie1 said:


> Well I'm sure your beagle is annoyed with your clear lack of intelligence and silently wishes for a new owner.


Nah, she knows I’m smart, I only hunt for big bucks near big balloons.

She’s pretty ticked at me right now though for getting a new male beagle pup…


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## DuckMan (Jan 18, 2000)

Yankee#1 said:


> Nah, she knows I’m smart, I only hunt for big bucks near big balloons.
> 
> She’s pretty ticked at me right now though for getting a new male beagle pup…
> View attachment 870614


She is beautiful. I miss my beagles.


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## retired dundo (Jul 21, 2015)

cant understand why people have such people s getting pulled over byCOs or police just hand him your license and police hand drive license registration proof insurance beforethey evan ask.what’s the big deal


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## jd4223 (Feb 12, 2012)

retired dundo said:


> cant understand why people have such people s getting pulled over byCOs or police just hand him your license and police hand drive license registration proof insurance beforethey evan ask.what’s the big deal


Giving required ID/License is not the big deal. The big deal is when they decide to search your vehicle and play 20 questions with you.


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

A 13 page thread about a guy being questioned by the DNR and being all upset. At 22 I had already spent 3 years in and out of hell and I certainly didn't need my Dad to rescue me from anybody. It's time to grow up.


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

Pretty much beat this horse to death.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

retired dundo said:


> cant understand why people have such people s getting pulled over byCOs or police just hand him your license and police hand drive license registration proof insurance beforethey evan ask.what’s the big deal


It shouldn’t be if one has nothing to hide nor doing anything wrong.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

sparky18181 said:


> Pretty much beat this horse to death.


It pretty much covered it all didn’t it, lol


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

GregRM said:


> A big part of the discussion is about Leos needing proof.
> That being said: What is your proof that it is such an "obvious" prank? Or are you working on an assumption?!
> Would you be willing to testify under oath!?
> Lol.


It is the smartest man in the room syndrome, it happens. Don't feed it. 

The fact is, this type of thing happens, and the OP gave enough proof that is likely wasn't a prank, although it should have been, because it is BS.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

jd4223 said:


> Giving required ID/License is not the big deal. The big deal is when they decide to search your vehicle and play 20 questions with you.


Just get a CPL, I haven't had a lick of trouble since then. I think they have a different outlook on the type of person you are when you have one. 

We were actually talking about this recently, everyone I have talked to since then with a CPL mirrors my experiences, even my Wife with Midland Police.


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## Tom (mich) (Jan 17, 2003)

If you say "grean bean" slowly 3 times, it sounds....


jiggin is livin said:


> It is the smartest man in the room syndrome, it happens. Don't feed it.
> 
> The fact is, this type of thing happens, and the OP gave enough proof that is likely wasn't a prank, although it should have been, because it is BS.


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## gatorman841 (Mar 4, 2010)

sparky18181 said:


> Pretty much beat this horse to death.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

gatorman841 said:


> View attachment 870723


I haven't seen something like that since the Muskegon weather reports on the GloBull warming topics.


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## >WingIt< (Nov 16, 2011)

If you did nothing wrong you have nothing to hide. If so the information you provide will clear you be it in 2 minutes or an hour. I for one am thankful when I hear about our wildlife managers doing their job and following up on anything suspicious no matter how big or small. Follow the rules and you will have no worries


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## HitFactor (Oct 19, 2021)

jiggin is livin said:


> Just get a CPL, I haven't had a lick of trouble since then. I think they have a different outlook on the type of person you are when you have one.
> 
> We were actually talking about this recently, everyone I have talked to since then with a CPL mirrors my experiences, even my Wife with Midland Police.


That's your mind playing tricks on you.


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## Sasquatch Lives (May 23, 2011)

I have posted this before on here but its been awhile. A few years back my daughter and I got stopped by a CO and checked for atv tags. Chewed the fat with the guy for a while about deer hunting the area. He told me of a certain road where he has been seeing a huge buck but only at night. This road is all small growth woods with only one cutover which you could see a deer out in. Finished our ride and out of curiousity drove by where he was talking about. I am very familiar with this area and have hunted it for 20 years and it just does not have a lot of deer. Driving home my daughter who was 15 at the time said "I think that sounded like a set up to see if he could catch you spotlighting that field, maybe he has a fake deer set up at night there". I told her funny but I was thinking the same thing.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

HitFactor said:


> That's your mind playing tricks on you.


I wouldn't be so sure. Maybe. I am a very respectful law abiding citizen that will help my fellow man whenever and where ever. I am a firm believer in being kind, even when it is hard. I respect LEO and all First Responders and the job they CHOOSE to do, but don't HAVE to for or fellow citizens. 

I don't have a speck of trouble telling anyone to F off when they cross a line though. But, there is a lot of mutual respect that comes from being that way, as all behavior given and taken is warranted.


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## retired dundo (Jul 21, 2015)

i had a CO help me drag a deer out of field years ago another time help me put one in my truck.More good ones then bad.There’s allways some bad people in any line of work example politicions


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

retired dundo said:


> i had a CO help me drag a deer out of field years ago another time help me put one in my truck.More good ones then bad.There’s allways some bad people in any line of work example politicions


Absolutely! 

I didn't read anyone in here bashing on LEOs. Just simply saying the ones that abuse their power or try to fish for charges need to be called out on their BS. 

Simply saying "We are done here, you can leave" or similar is usually enough.


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## HitFactor (Oct 19, 2021)

jiggin is livin said:


> I wouldn't be so sure. Maybe. I am a very respectful law abiding citizen that will help my fellow man whenever and where ever. I am a firm believer in being kind, even when it is hard. I respect LEO and all First Responders and the job they CHOOSE to do, but don't HAVE to for or fellow citizens.
> 
> I don't have a speck of trouble telling anyone to F off when they cross a line though. But, there is a lot of mutual respect that comes from being that way, as all behavior given and taken is warranted.


Agree, your explanation above is why. The CPL has nothing to do with it.


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## RHRoss (Dec 5, 2020)

Sasquatch Lives said:


> I have posted this before on here but its been awhile. A few years back my daughter and I got stopped by a CO and checked for atv tags. Chewed the fat with the guy for a while about deer hunting the area. He told me of a certain road where he has been seeing a huge buck but only at night. This road is all small growth woods with only one cutover which you could see a deer out in. Finished our ride and out of curiousity drove by where he was talking about. I am very familiar with this area and have hunted it for 20 years and it just does not have a lot of deer. Driving home my daughter who was 15 at the time said "I think that sounded like a set up to see if he could catch you spotlighting that field, maybe he has a fake deer set up at night there". I told her funny but I was thinking the same thing.


One of my buddies and 1 of my cousins both shot the decoy buck, from the truck, from the road in back to back years up in Charlevoix County (early 90’s)


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

RHRoss said:


> One of my buddies and 1 of my cousins both shot the decoy buck, from the truck, from the road in back to back years up in Charlevoix County (early 90’s)


Do they like rye too?


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