# Crossbow action alert



## Hamilton Reef (Jan 20, 2000)

Action Alert from MUCC

HB 4875 introduced by Rep. Richardville will be discussed in the House Conservation and Environment Committee July 2 ( tomorrw) at 9:00 a.m. This bill would allow people 65 years or older to hunt with a cross bow during the archery season. I will be there representing Michigan United Conservation Clubs and will testify against the bill, but your help is needed! Because this bill was just introduced and schedule immediately, the members of the committee have not heard from anybody who opposes this bill. It is expected to pass out of committee unless MUCC members can mount an effective quick campaign. Please call the following legislators and tell them your feelings about the bill. You can leave a message on their answering machine if you have to call after 5:00 pm. 

Rep. Sue Tabor, Chair, Eaton Rapids 1-877-71TABOR (toll free)
Rep. Matt Milosch (Lambertville) 1-866-345-2167
Rep. Ken Bradstreet (Gaylord) 1-877-KEN-4-105
Rep. Stephen Ehardt (Lexington) 1-517-373-0835
Rep. Randy Richardville (Monroe) 1-800-655-7545 (toll free)
Rep Sal Rocca (Sterling Heights) 1-517-373-7768
Rep. Neal Nitz (Baroda) 1-888-373-0078
Rep. Matt Gillard (Alpena) 1 866-MATT-106 (toll free)
Rep. Barbara Farrah (Southgate) 1 866 REP-1313 (toll free)
Rep. Dale Sheltrown (Gladwin) 1 888-347-8103 (toll free)
Rep. Frank Accavitti (Eastpointe) 1-866-Dist-032 (toll free)

Thanks for your help

Donna Stine
Policy Specialist
Michigan United Conservation Clubs
PO Box 30235
2101 Wood Street
Lansing, MI 48909
(517) 346-6487 - phone
(517) 371-1505 - Fax
[email protected]


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

A little under-handed perhaps? Good thing you told us about it Tom or I bet the first we would have heard about it would have been after it was law.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

I'm with Splitshot on this one


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## Brian S (Apr 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Splitshot _
> *I would like to hear the logic opposing hunters over 65 from using them if they choose. *


I'll give it my best shot, here goes;

If seniors are allowed to use crossbows, then:
- everyone will see how fun and effective crossbows are
- more sportsmen will want to try it and push for their use by anyone during archery season
- our deer numbers will gradually start to reduce
- the dnr will have to reduce or eliminate all the doe-only seasons we allready have
- the dnr will have to resort to reducing the lengthy bow season to compensate for the effectiveness and popularity of crossbows
- the traditional archers get $crewed out of a few more days of hunting


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Have you ever shot a crossbow Brian?
I didn't find them much more effective than my compund.


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## deepwoods (Nov 18, 2002)

Brian,

It would seem that this would allow elderly people (no offense to those over 65) to further enjoy this great sport of bowhunting. Handicapped hunters, I believe, can apply for and use a crossbow now and I have never seen one in the woods. I hunt on Federal land almost exclusively so its not like I don't see LOTS of other bowhunters. I can't believe that seniors would somehow take to the woods in great mass and decimate the herd. 

Just my $.02.


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## Brian S (Apr 5, 2002)

FREEPOP, no, I haven't. A friend of mine uses one because of a disability so I'm a little familiar with them. The range for them is about the same, if not a little less than a compound. The only thing that may make them more effective is that you don't have to draw it back while a deer is standing there. Just point and shoot.

It may not be obvious by my post (my sarcasm and smart-a$$ attitude get lost in the translation some times ) but I'm all for this bill. This bill will give a lot of older sportsmen a chance to continue hunting during the archery season. Some traditionalists suggest that with todays technology (80% let-offs), crossbows aren't necessary. Thats just bull. Sure, anyone can hold back the 10 pounds after the let-off, but you still have to get over the 45 pound peak and then be able to do it several times. Lets not forget, even these seasoned hunters need to practice and thats what goes first. Older huntuers give up archery because they don't have the strength to practice. If they can't practice then really, they shouldn't be slinging arrows at deer. They know it and end up just dropping the sport.

This is a bill supporting our most seasoned sportsmen, so we all should support it.


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

Don't get me wrong guys, I have absolutely no problem with seniors using a crossbow during bow season. In fact it might get my dad out with me for a hunt or two.

What bothers me is the way something like this is introduced and set forth for vote with such little time. Usually the MUCC has plenty of notice and is able to make it's readership aware of the HB's coming up months ahead of time in it's magazine. Makes me wonder why a crossbow bill would be any different as far as timing.


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## kbkrause (Feb 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Brian S _
> *I'll give it my best shot, here goes;
> 
> If seniors are allowed to use crossbows, then:
> ...


Because I have never shot a Hunting Cross bow I have a couple of Q's.
Are crossbows that much more effective than a compound bow?
They do look fun, but I think I would rather fling arrows with my compound bow.
Is there any evidence, from other states that have implemented crossbow seasons concurrent with reg archery season, that the deer numbers have dramatically reduced?
Doesn't the DNR want to reduce the deer herd anyway?

Again, I'm not trying to start an argument, but I want to understand why there is such an anti-crossbow push.


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## huntingfool43 (Mar 16, 2002)

All I can say is people need to stop listening to the rumor mill and try shooting a cross bow. I think most would be suprized at what they find. They are not a long range weapon and no more deadly than a compound, not to mention just plain un balanced with all the weight being out on the front of them. Being disabled I have the permit to use one but so far have chosen not to and god forbid if I do and post a pic on here because I can here the BS now because it was shot by a cross bow.


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## Brian S (Apr 5, 2002)

deepwoods, there is a provision for letting people with disabilities use crossbows during the archery season, but not being strong enough to practice isn't covered by it.


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## deepwoods (Nov 18, 2002)

Quote from Brian S:

It may not be obvious by my post (my sarcasm and smart-a$$ attitude get lost in the translation some times ) but I'm all for this bill. 

I misunderstood your stance on the matter Brian.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

I'm sorry Brian, but you qoute Spitshots question and it sure did sound like you were in opposition. You have that right.

My girlfriend's brother has one, it even has a crank, and yes he has a permit. When he had an accident with a chain saw he really didn't want to live any more (knowing he couldn't bow hunt). We pitched in and got him a crossbow and with a little prodding he's content again.


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## Brian S (Apr 5, 2002)

kbkrause, I think the anti-crossbow push boils down to the last line of my first post on this thread.

huntingfool43, I hope you post a pic of it when you get it. From what I know about the people around here, you'll get nothing but atta-boys and congrats.


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

It's the dirty politics that really get me going. The way this is being pushed through reminds me of the worm bill a year or so ago. When something gets ram-rodded through like this it's bound to raise suspicions.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Steve _
> *It's the dirty politics that really get me going. The way this is being pushed through reminds me of the worm bill a year or so ago. When something gets ram-rodded through like this it's bound to raise suspicions. *


Everything that a politician does makes me feel this way Steve


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## ArrowHawk (Apr 1, 2003)

I would have to go with those that are for people over 65 being able to use crossbows. They would be able to shoot better and get a cleaner kill then shooting a weak bow and hurting the animal. I won't give up my compound until I cannot pull it back any more.


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## Hamilton Reef (Jan 20, 2000)

I have supported crossbows in the pass and I have since bought a crossbow from the widow of a friend that passed away. I am on total disability. Here is what I've discovered about my crossbow which included the scope and crank.

The crossbow is not as easy or as accurate as portrayed. Those long rifle shots are not practical. I still need to practice and choose my close shots. It is too heavy, clumsy, and noisy. I don't like it. It is nothing like shooting my rifle. I cannot shoot out of my regular shacks because of the width of the limbs. My regular bow was more fun in the tree stands that I can no longer get to.

My real problem is myself, not the crossbow or the compound bow. My injuries and degeneration will not allow me to sit still or comfortable long enough to hunt properly. I've adapted by now building shacks that are customized to fit my disability. When done, I will probably be able to go back to a compound bow with the draw poundage let off.

The crossbow has a place for those in need. The DNR played a dirty trick by allowing the short crossbow season then putting it in the freezing season to laugh at the crossbow users. The DNR knew very well the seniors in general are less able to tolerate the cold than the younger hunters. As to the general hunters swiching rifles to crossbows? The woods is so full of archers, rifles, and idiots that there is no difference to the deer from September to January. Crossbows yes/no doesn't really matter to me.


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## Sawcat (Apr 5, 2003)

I have shot some of the Hunting crossbows out in the woods and was very surprised by their lack of range. Those short bolts and the short stroke of the limbs simply don't store the same amount of energy as a modern compound. However if this will help keep our most experienced hunters in the woods to help teach the young then bring it on! I think if anyone could have the discipline to limit their shot to their effective range then it would have to be the most experienced hunters among us. Lets go hunting grandpa!


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## Keith Sage (May 11, 2003)

My nephew lost his right arm when he was 15, for the last 12 years he hunts only with a rifle/shotgun, This cross bow law should be a no brainer..The hunters with a pass from there DR to prove they hare classed as handicap should have no problem..
Give them the right to hunt too..


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## Tom Morang (Aug 14, 2001)

The maker of hb4875 stated(83rd District Representative Randy Richardville) in committee that he is inclined to water down the present handicap crossbow bill rather than push for 65 and older. He said he has some problems with eligibility based on age alone. So what is it going to be?

Crossbows for the physically challenged?(we already have that law on the books).

Crossbows for seniors? The bill sponsor (83rd District Representative Randy Richardville (R))stated in committee he doesn't think that age is the way it should go.

Crossbows for everyone?

This bill is morphing into something it wasn't meant to. Or was this the plan all along............????????

So why did this bill go through committee if the Rep who wrote the bill feels it is wrong to use age as the determining factor in letting someone use a crossbow during the bow season?

If crossbows aren't all they are cracked up to be then why can someone who is handicapped use them if they aren't easier to use?
THEY ARE EASIER TO USE!
I have shot many modern crossbows and they are more accurate, more powerful and take less skill to use than my compound bow. How easy do we want it?

Before you get down on me I would like you to know that I was on the committee that drafted the present handicap crossbow bill along with Don Basse from Outdoors Forever back in 1993. He was more concerned about cheaters and people who abuse the system than the other bowhunters on the committee. We received a lot of input from other states and they all warned us of abuse by doctors for their "patients" and that is the reason we wrote the bill the way it is.

The package we presented to the Legislature in the spring of 1992 was signed into Law in 1993 with very few changes. For effecting this law, Michigan Bow Hunters and Outdoors Forever received accolades from the print media and sportsmen's groups throughout the State. And it's a relatively simple law as you may already know. It provides an automatic crossbow permit to anyone missing an arm, a hand , or four fingers from the same hand; or anyone who is permanently non ambulatory and confined to a wheelchair, as determined by a physician. For those who are able to walk and have all their hands, arms and fingers, but suffer muscle weakness, nerve damage or loss of range of motion, resulting from sickness or accident, a crossbow permit is issued if they are 80 percent permanently impaired, as determined through objective testing by a Physical Therapist.


The Physically Challenged Bowhunters of America also believe that there are many individuals who are trying to abuse the privilege and the system that some states have in place. They also state that not every disability prevents a person from using a conventional bow.



I don't think many seniors will be happy being labeled as handicap just because they turn a certain age.......


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## Tom Morang (Aug 14, 2001)

Kind of interesting how HB 4875 was voted out of committee as written BEFORE everyone who wanted to speak at the committee hearing had a chance. The second part of the "hearing" was held AFTER the bill was reported out of the House Conservation and Rec committee chaired by Rep Tabor.....tm


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