# can you tell me why? (Discussion on Off-Set Jaws)



## varminthunter (Dec 19, 2005)

can some of you trappers tell me why you prefer offset jaw traps over close jaw traps? or if you dont prefer offset then why? thanks ahead of time, this will help my decision on some near future plans. and please no fights on this everyone has their own opinion!


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## David G Duncan (Mar 26, 2000)

Hunter,

This is a good topic and I am sure you will get a lot of opinions regarding the benefits or lack of benefits to having "Off Set Jaws".

Personally, I did most of my trapping before Off Set Jaws became popular, so my experience with them is limited.

For fox and coyote trapping, I can see where they might be an advantage. Mainly due to the fact that slightly less damage should be caused to the canine's paw. Therefore, this will result in a slightly more humane treatment to the animal.

However, based on my experience, if a proper sized trap is used to catch fox and coyote, along with a 24 hour check, then I have found foothold traps with standard jaws to cause no serious damage to a fox or coyote's paw. Or for that matter the paw of a dog or cat.

My advice would be to purchase a few traps with Off Set Jaws and some with standard jaws and check their effectiveness for yourself.

But all said and done, if I had to pick only one style, then because of my past experience I would have to stick with the standard jaw. This is based primarily on my belief that I get fewer pull outs and will hold a few more toe catches over the long haul in a standard jawed trap.

Let the debate begin.


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## varminthunter (Dec 19, 2005)

wow, so nobody uses either kind of trap except mr. duncan?


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## unregistered55 (Mar 12, 2000)

I pretty much agree with Dave. I hope PETA doesn't read this but the animal is going to be put down when the trapper gets there and whether it gets pinched in standard or offset jaws is insignificant. I sure wouldn't buy offset jaw traps because they might not pinch toes as hard as standard jaws. I believe that toe catches would be lost fur for foxes and surely for *****. I think some of the modifications to canine traps are as much to sell more traps as they are to make the trap more effective.


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## varminthunter (Dec 19, 2005)

well im not doing this for the argument of toe pinches and such or for the peta people. i may have a new trap design and i just wanted to see what type of jaw was preferred.


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## muskrat (Oct 21, 2005)

I do not have any off-set jaw traps, I have not trapped any fox or coyote either. But for some reason I thought that the off-set traps were designed for a better hold and like Mr. Duncan stated also for humane purposes. I think they may have came out after the double jaw (I am not sure but trying to remember). And during sometime in between the soft catch padded traps came around. I do remember shopping at the True Value in Auburn Heights to buy my Victor #1 and 110 conibear traps.
buying traps in 84-85 the traps I remember were all even/straight jaw 
do remember later a few years coming across the off-set
then in Fur-Fish and Game seeing the soft catch/padded traps come out. Kids are getting in my way:lol:
So I think humane purposes and for a better hold. Try to imagine the leg in the trap and how the jaws would would meet or hold the leg.
Once again I am not sure but its my 1/2 cent.
Matt


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## bowhuntr81 (Sep 13, 2007)

I recently asked about using offset jaws for ****. I actually asked this because my place of employment has a ton of rubber jawed traps which I personally don't like, but when you take the rubber pad off it reveals a wonderful offset jawed trap and the price was perfect! I have since decided that I do not want to use offset jawed traps for ****, I don't think they would hold, **** have such skinny skrawny feet that you have to have a good tight catch. For coyotes though, it seems in my area alot of the guys use them as they are very effective and humane for holding canines. 

Good luck!


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## varminthunter (Dec 19, 2005)

thanks guys for all of the replies so far. one in particular was exactly what i wanted to hear. i have heard 2 main arguments on this before:
1: offset jaw = better hold with more spring tension due to the springs being higher up and closer to being fully topped out at maximum tension.
2: offset jaw = more humane due to the animals leg being able to retain circulation better than a non-offset ...
either way i still would like to hear as many opinions as i can get, and remember everyone has their own opinion! thanks!


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## SNAREMAN (Dec 10, 2006)

The only advantage I can see with an off-set is allowing the lever's to "ride" a little higher.I don't see how it would help with better circulation in the animal's foot.In order for it to help with that,the rest of the jaw would have to be fully closed.


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## varminthunter (Dec 19, 2005)

SNAREMAN said:


> The only advantage I can see with an off-set is allowing the lever's to "ride" a little higher.I don't see how it would help with better circulation in the animal's foot.In order for it to help with that,the rest of the jaw would have to be fully closed.


great point . the argument on that has been they are somewhat the same until the point of forgivness on the offset jaw, in which the offset does have a point where it stops tightening but the closed jaw keeps tightening till its completely tight between jaws.


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## griffondog (Dec 27, 2005)

Since I started predator trapping again in the 2000-2001 season almost all the traps I've used were offset jawed. They include Bmi k-9 wolfer, victor 4+4 pro foj, Sleepy creek 3 foj, Mb650's and MB 550'S. I also use some of my old Montey 2's. For trapping city coyotes I use padded victor 3's.

I've ran 200 yotes and 150 fox through them. I've lost 1 grey in a 3 sleepy creek in that time. Held all the **** without any problems also.
Now I don't consider them a **** trap but I normally catch more **** in them than predators in a season.

The 3 sleepy creek has the widest offset of all the traps I use and I only use them in deep snow as a coyote trap. I've lost more ***** in the 3 padded victor trap than any other trap. I only own I doz of them and I only use them as a public relations trap mostly in the summer.

The perfect predator trap in my opinion should have a cast 1/2 wide jaw face and a 1/8 to 1/4 offset jaw. No cut paws and enough circulation left to keep thepaw in good shape.

Ask the people who sell animals to the pens which traps they use. Padded traps or wide offset jawed traps.


Griff


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## David G Duncan (Mar 26, 2000)

Like I said initially, I have had very limited experience with off-set jawed traps and unfortunately some of it was not that favorable.

But, we do have an expert canine trapper on our forum, by the name of Griffondog, who has had a lot of experience with off-set jawed traps. So we would be well served to listen to his advice. 

His recommendation for a canine trap, with cast iron jaw and 1/2" jaw face, is right on the money in my book. And since he has the field experience to back up his favorably opinion of off-set jaws, they are no doubt going to be your best choice in the long run.

Just curious Griff, what do you think about the argument that a trap with off-set jaws has more holding power, because the lever arms come up higher?

I could see that being the case with square jawed traps like the old #2 Victor Fox trap, but round jawed traps, like my trusty 1 1/2 coilsprings never seem to be lacking for holding power. I think the shape of the jaw might have a bigger impact on holding power than off-set jaws.

Over the years I have made some very impressive catches (Otter, Beaver, Coyote) in the lowly Victor 1 1/2 coilspring traps with no off-set in their jaws.

Also, any trap set in dirt for canines, once sprung (IMO), will momentarily have a small amount of loose dirt pinched between the jaws, right at the hinge point.

This wedged dirt does rapidly work free, but while in place it can have the effect of preventing the jaws from closing as tightly as they might, like say on a thin foot animal like a raccoon. This wedged dirt effect is most pronounced on traps with a wider jaw spread. And the effect becomes even more pronounced on an off-set jawed trap.

Now granted I am are splitting hairs with this wedged dirt theory and admit that it is not a big overall factor in making a decision about off-set jaws. As always, in the final analysis, the preferences of the individual trapper, based on his personal experience will always be the deciding factor.


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## varminthunter (Dec 19, 2005)

great posts guys, this is turning out great to hear what all of you think from your ideas and experiance.thanks!


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## 9 (Jan 17, 2000)

> The perfect predator trap in my opinion should have a cast 1/2 wide jaw face and a 1/8 to 1/4 offset jaw. No cut paws and enough circulation left to keep thepaw in good shape.
> 
> Ask the people who sell animals to the pens which traps they use. Padded traps or wide offset jawed traps.


Well ya sucked me in Grif!

95% of my canine traps are offsets! Yes, as Griff stated, I use them for the animals but mostly I use them and double-laminated jaws for the *public.* * For the property owner*! That's right, public preception, acclimation, and education that's the main reasons I use offsets!!

This is just my personal opinion but in today's world of many owners of trapping-size acreage are about two generations out of when their grand folks knew and understood foothold traps. Many of the "new" generation(30-40 year olds) of property owners(suburbia moving rural) I deal with still think though preception, that foothold traps have teeth for crying out loud!!!

I pull a trap that I use for coyote and show them it has a 1/4" gap between the jaws and then explain the principle of my double-lams tripling the jaw width! I always use the 2x6 board-lamination deal as an example and it works! *The entire package WORKS!!!* I can honestly say that I've acquired at least 1/3 of my trapping properties using this method of education and counterpreception!

IMHO, my offsets are worth every $$ I spent and every hour I worked adding the lams!


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## griffondog (Dec 27, 2005)

Mike glad to see you back with your insight. Kind of stuck my neck out on this one. Just waiting for a real coyote trapper to cut it off.

Dave when I got back trapping predators again I figured we would be trapping under some type of BMP standards in the future. So I might as well set myself up for what I thought we would be using. Plus I'm trapping in the burbs so I need to sell what I'm doing to the public.

As far as the levers on the traps riding up higher on the jaws it depends on the type of trap. Forged offset or cut out jaws the levers will ride up higher. On traps with lugs just added to a standard jaw this isn't true.

As far as offsets having debris problems keeping the traps from closing all the way that is a problem caused by the trappers technique not a design flaw in the trap. I've had traps not close all the way from sticks and rocks and thats my fault for allowing that to happen.

Of the traps I've used I think the victor 1.75 trap design has the best lever set up of all the traps I use. The levers lock up nice and the paw wont slide back and forth between the jaws. I always wondered why they don't make there 3's the same way. With that said the trap has a weak frame and the dog will get ate like candy.

In heavy clay soils you need to pay attention to what your doing with wide jawed and offsets jawed traps with lugs. The soil will build up and give you a bit more offset. Is this going to make a difference on a coyote or red fox no. But on a small **** or grey maybe. So I just pay attention to whats going on and clean up my traps and catch area before resetting.

Griff


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## 9 (Jan 17, 2000)

griffondog said:


> Dave when I got back trapping predators again I figured we would be trapping under some type of BMP standards in the future. So I might as well set myself up for what I thought we would be using. Plus I'm trapping in the burbs so I need to sell what I'm doing to the public.
> Griff


Absolutely on the money! Those were exactly my thoughts and what I decided to do as well when I got back into trapping canines.


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## David G Duncan (Mar 26, 2000)

Great explanations!

Thanks Griff and Seldom for reinforcing the wisdom of using Off-Set Jawed traps for canine trapping.


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## varminthunter (Dec 19, 2005)

David G Duncan said:


> Great explanations!
> 
> Thanks Griff and Seldom for reinforcing the wisdom of using Off-Set Jawed traps for canine trapping.


 yes, thanks alot guys!


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