# .223 or .22-250



## Sib (Jan 8, 2003)

I'm trying to make a decision between the two rounds and thought I'd ask for some feedback from others. I like the .22-250 but I think it only performs marginally better than the .223. So the .22-250 gets only a slight edge in the performance catagory, at least as I've read and understand. So the next catagory that comes up is affordability to shoot. The .223 gets a big advantage in bulk ammo costs, but as I look at some different rounds, the better rounds start getting up in price with the .22-250. Is this the case? That the better rounds, the rounds I'be be more interested in for accuracy are only slightly cheaper than the .22-250?

My initial thoughts are to get the .22-250, but after reading about the two rounds the .223 started to get more attractive because of the cost of cartriges. After pricing the ammo that isn't bulk, the cost seemed much closer. Basically, I'm looking for a round with good performance and inexpensive to shoot. I'd pay a little more for better performance, say 10%, but if the performance is negligible I see no reason to pay more.

Long story made short, I won a Weatherby .300 WSM at a DU event. I don't need a .300 WSM and the gun shop handling the guns for the chapter said they'd give me what ever caliber I'd like. So I'm leaning toward a Vanguard Sub-MOA in either a .223 or a .22-250.

I see a reloader in my future, btw, what about costs of each for reloading, how close in cost would reloading be?

I appreciate any feedback you can share.


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## Yarcher (Oct 17, 2006)

Personally, I would go with the .22-250. Especially if you plan to possibly reload in the future. Since you are not talking about a semi-automatic plinking rifle, I doubt you will find yourself buying a bunch of bulk ammo anyhow. It is fun to shoot, but in the end, you will want to shoot and sight in with the most accurate ammo you can find, which won't likely be bulk ammo. If you are interested in accuracy, you will get plenty of shooting in while working up loads for your rifle. The cash you would have saved buying bulk ammo can be saved through reloading instead. Although in the end you really never save money, it just allows you to shoot all the more for the same amount of money. Good luck. 

P.S. I am torn between the .204 (which I think would be great in a semi-auto for praire dogs or woodchucks), the always popular .22-250, and the .220 Swift. I reload, so the cost of ammo is not a large factor. I know in the end I will most likely be shooting fox and coyote, so I am leaning towards the .22-250 and .220 Swift. I also am using an Encore as my platform, so my options are fairly open.


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## Nick Adams (Mar 10, 2005)

Sib said:


> I see a reloader in my future, btw, what about costs of each for reloading, how close in cost would reloading be?


- Cost of primers and bullets would be the same.
- 223 brass would be cheaper and there is a ton of it out there.
- 223 is more efficient with respect to powder due its smaller case volume (uses less powder for any given bullet/velocity combination)
- 22-250 is capable of higher velocity and, as a result, longer effective ranges, although at really long range wind becomes a big factor and a good argument could be made that you'd be better off with a 24/25/26 caliber cartridge for this.

223 for a less expensive gun to shoot within 300 yards.
22/250 (or a 24/25/26) for shooting out well beyond 300 yards.

-na


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

What are your plans with it? Out west poodle shooting in the cards? Here in Michigan, a .223 is plenty for 99% of our varminting needs. I have been toying with this one as well. Mine will see far more bench and target time than field time likely but either way, it will see plenty of rounds. Barrel life will be longer with the .223 all things being equal. Most will not shoot enough to be an issue either way. I also reload. Mine would see ground hog and yote action in the field and it's enough gun to shoot as far as necessary in all but a few hunting locations. Windy conditions will wreak havoc on both calibers, though the .22-250 will have a slight advantage. I'm going with the .223 and will use a .243 if necessary and the .243 will double as a dual purpose rig. I figure if I need more than the .223, the .243 will stand in nicely. 
In the end, either will perform nicely so you can't go wrong. Lot of help that was, I know


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## bowhunt4fun (Nov 5, 2007)

Swamp Monster said:


> What are your plans with it? Out west poodle shooting in the cards? Here in Michigan, a .223 is plenty for 99% of our varminting needs. I have been toying with this one as well. Mine will see far more bench and target time than field time likely but either way, it will see plenty of rounds. Barrel life will be longer with the .223 all things being equal. Most will not shoot enough to be an issue either way. I also reload. Mine would see ground hog and yote action in the field and it's enough gun to shoot as far as necessary in all but a few hunting locations. Windy conditions will wreak havoc on both calibers, though the .22-250 will have a slight advantage. I'm going with the .223 and will use a .243 if necessary and the .243 will double as a dual purpose rig. I figure if I need more than the .223, the .243 will stand in nicely.
> In the end, either will perform nicely so you can't go wrong. Lot of help that was, I know


I completely agree. I had a 22-250 savage and it was a great gun, but sold it and got a .223 Bushmaster varmint model and love it, not to mention rounds are cheaper.


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## Jet08 (Aug 21, 2007)

http://www.remington.com/products/a...llistics_results.aspx?data=PRA2250RB*PRA223RB

These are the ballistics on these two calibers with a 50 grain Accutip bullet. If you put all costs aside, the 22-250 has better numbers in all catagories on this page. I was in the market last year for a gun, and I was set on a .204 until someone showed me this. You can campare any caliber and any grain bullet. when i was looking, the .204 shot faster, and may have been slightly better for long distance shooting, but the 22-250 had much more energy(ft-Ib) at farther ranges. I think this will help you out alot on choosing whats best for you.

Oh and for my vote, 22-250 in a 55 grain bullet.


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## Sib (Jan 8, 2003)

Good info so far guys. This thing kinda snuck up on me, because I wasn't really looking at a new rifle at the moment. I didn't need another big game round, so I had to consider what gaps I had in the collection and a varmint gun was the only thing I was lacking. No doubt it would see more bench shooting than field use, but I would use it on g-hogs and yotes. 

Like Swamp Monster I like to consider the application and not get caught up on a few fps and slightly hotter load. I'm not against a hotter, or flatter round, as long as that premium gets put to use regularly. If it's only occassionally it's needed then the premium probably isn't worth it. I'm not really one to purchase for the exception, I'm one to purchase for the everyday.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Forgot to congratulate you on winning the gun! Always nice! I tried to win one last weekend at the whitetails banquet but luck was not on my side. It's a shame to as they had some nice long guns to choose from. Maybe next year.....(and like a Lions fan...I say maybe next year all to often!:lol


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## HTC (Oct 6, 2005)

Swamp Monster said:


> Forgot to congratulate you on winning the gun!


Might as well copy and paste this statement every few months....he always wins the guns!

Congrats Sib! You may remember I annually go to Colorado and bust dogs with a good friend who lives out there prior to the start of the second season for elk. I used to shoot a 22-250 for them, (I upgraded that gun). My friend shoots both the calibers your looking at. In the thousands of rounds we have spent, I have never noticed a difference and the dogs couldn't tell either.

Winchester makes some bulk varmint rounds that come in a 40 round pack. The two calibers are very close in price. As for reloading you have a small vs large rifle primer difference and a negligible amount of powder, the bullets are obviously the same. In the end, it would be hard to measure the cost savings of the .223 over the 22-250 when reloading...so why the price is so different in the store???

Regardless, if a press is in your future, let me know when you start if you need any help....


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

The 223 will do 99% of what the 22-250. The advantage with the 22-250 is at longer ranges. And to be honest, when you start talking those ranges, I'd rather have a 243...but that's just me and my preference. Consider what you will be hunting with it and what your longest shots may be. If there's good chance it will be over 300 or so yards, lean towards the 22-250. If not, get the 223 for reasons stated by others. One other thing, don't get too caught up on paper ballistics...a coyote hit with a 223 or 22-250 is not going to know the difference inside 300 or so yards.


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## Rustyaxecamp (Mar 1, 2005)

Some good related info in a thread I had earlier.

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212008


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## HunterHawk (Dec 8, 2005)

i have a 22-250 and love it and wont sell it.... i like longer shots though... i think for what it sounds like you like doing the 223 would be fine for you... and an AR is always fun.. my buddy has one and loves it and he can poke out there a ways too.. i personally would have taken the 300 but thats just what im lacking on is a bigger rifle


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## bowhunt4fun (Nov 5, 2007)

M1Garand said:


> The 223 will do 99% of what the 22-250. The advantage with the 22-250 is at longer ranges. And to be honest, when you start talking those ranges, I'd rather have a 243...but that's just me and my preference. Consider what you will be hunting with it and what your longest shots may be. If there's good chance it will be over 300 or so yards, lean towards the 22-250. If not, get the 223 for reasons stated by others. One other thing, don't get too caught up on paper ballistics...a coyote hit with a 223 or 22-250 is not going to know the difference inside 300 or so yards.


I agree that the 223 will do 100% of what the 22-250 will do, but it will not have as flat of trajectory. A faster shooting bullet doesnt mean a more accurate round....check out a 50BMG. Regarding accuracy and shooting long distances, the military uses 223's not 22-250's and each and every marine has to qualify at 500 yards with open sights with an AR. I used to think the 22-250 was the greatest thing since sliced bread, but then I started doing some research on ballistics and accuracy. From what I read you can shoot a 72grain 223 more accuratly then a 22-250 at longer distances. Considering in michigan 300 yards is a heck of a shot, and to be honest unless you have a custom gun, hand loads, a good trigger, and a heck of a shooter you will most likely not be able to tell a difference in accuracy. I have a .223 and it does everything I need, and shells are about 50% less.


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

bowhunt4fun said:


> I agree that the 223 will do 100% of what the 22-250 will do, but it will not have as flat of trajectory. A faster shooting bullet doesnt mean a more accurate round....check out a 50BMG. Regarding accuracy and shooting long distances, the military uses 223's not 22-250's and each and every marine has to qualify at 500 yards with open sights with an AR. I used to think the 22-250 was the greatest thing since sliced bread, but then I started doing some research on ballistics and accuracy. From what I read you can shoot a 72grain 223 more accuratly then a 22-250 at longer distances. Considering in michigan 300 yards is a heck of a shot, and to be honest unless you have a custom gun, hand loads, a good trigger, and a heck of a shooter you will most likely not be able to tell a difference in accuracy. I have a .223 and it does everything I need, and shells are about 50% less.


A 223 wont do what a 22-250 can do because the case cannot hold as much powder. Your not comparing apples to apples. Load a 223 and 22-250 to max velocity with 55 gr bullets. Thats apples to apples. You want to talk accuracy? your using specialty twists in an AR platform with 70gr bullets, how about a specialty 22-250 with a faster twist? ah we have a comparison now!. A 22-250 with a standard 1:14 twist cant stabilize that bullet, the same as a 1:9 AR is IFFY with that bullet.
The military went with the 5.56 because a soldier/marine could carry more ammo to a firefight than the then available M-14 in .308 which has a more powerful round but at substantial weight gain. Might check the kill to ammo expended ratio for Vietnam out.........thousands of rounds to :1 to kill one enemy. Thats why we switched to the 5.56 much to the dismay of many of our service personnel. [Id much rather have a M-14 myself].
As far as accuracy, that depends on a host of items. 300 yards is not very far when ones PD shooting out west. Having done it many times, Id much rather have a 22-250, because of the almost always having to shoot in wind gusts. If its strong Ill swap out to a 243 or 25-06. Most times, the 22-250s just the ticket. However, there are many opportunities to shoot that far and farther here in Michigan on woodchucks. Which many here shoot. The .223 is a good varmint caliber no doubt, but the 22-250 has a velocity edge with like bullets. Ammo costs arent much different when one again, compares like types of ammo. Sure .223 FMJ is still cheap, but compare factory loads of say 50gr V-max, or like ammo and youll see theyre much closer.


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## steelsetter (Dec 14, 2003)

My 1-7 twist Colt H-Bar LOVES 68 grain Black Hills match hollow points. That stuff is not cheap to shoot if your not handloading yet......

Lighter weight bullets look like buck shot out of that gun.

My Bushmaster Varminter LOVES Winchester 45 grain JHP 40 round white box. That stuff is not cheap to shoot if your not handloading yet......

My 22-250 Encore LOVES 55 grain Remington soft points. That stuff is still pretty affordable if your not handloading yet.

.223 quality ammo is getting expensive and hard to find off the shelf anymore. And inevitably the load your gun will eat the best is the hardest to find..........

The 22-250 is a *** kickin round for most predators and varmints out to some extreme ranges. Even in the wind if you read it right and put TOP SHELF optics on the gun

I use 3 primary guns for chuck huntin in MI and doggin out west.

.22 magnum for inside a 150 yards.

.223 for inside 300 yards.

22-250 for all of the above and inside 800 yards or so.

300 yards is just starting to test your metal with the 22-250 if you learn your gun, optics and load with LOTS of practice

I am sighting my 22-250 in soon with a 200 yard zero and than working my way out to 800 yards.

Bullets fly for miles, you just need to figure out what it takes to make em land where you want em:lol:

And IMHO the 22-250 is a lot more gun than a .223 and I own three of them in AR platforms and one in a break open.


Good luck with whatever you decide on, and I sure do envy the "problem" your having right now.


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## WAUB-MUKWA (Dec 13, 2003)

bowhunt4fun said:


> I agree that the 223 will do 100% of what the 22-250 will do, but it will not have as flat of trajectory. A faster shooting bullet doesnt mean a more accurate round....check out a 50BMG. Regarding accuracy and shooting long distances, the military uses 223's not 22-250's and each and every marine has to qualify at 500 yards with open sights with an AR. I used to think the 22-250 was the greatest thing since sliced bread, but then I started doing some research on ballistics and accuracy. From what I read you can shoot a 72grain 223 more accuratly then a 22-250 at longer distances. Considering in michigan 300 yards is a heck of a shot, and to be honest unless you have a custom gun, hand loads, a good trigger, and a heck of a shooter you will most likely not be able to tell a difference in accuracy. I have a .223 and it does everything I need, and shells are about 50% less.


I've had them all and with my long range .223 I am reloading the 75 grain bt match's to punch out at the 500 yard mark. I like my .22-250 and reload 5 different weights for that one and find the 52 grain works the best for me but I can also go up to the 68 grain and even the 80 grain bullet for deer. A few friends dropped there deer out west with their .22-250s using the heavier reloads.


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## Sib (Jan 8, 2003)

Thanks to everyone for the info and helping make my decision. It's great to be able to ask people with such experience.

I scratched my head went this way, went that way, half considered a .243 for it's utilitarian ability deer and varmint. Reconsidered the .223 because it is thought of so highly by many. Even thought about a .270 wsm as a total 180 for deer and above. But then I had to sober up and remind myself that I am perfectly happy with my 30-06s and I have 300 rounds of Nosler Partitians and probably 100 corelokts. I loaded up on clearance a couple years ago so I didn't really need to go in another direction for big game rounds, it would just increase my cartridge costs.

So I decided on the Weatherby Vanguard SUB-MOA Varmint Special in .22-250. I got $650 credit on the .300 WSM that I won and tossed in another $150 of my own. Real pleased with the feel of the gun. The target supplied had all 3 shots in 1/2" group, the gun is guaranteed 1" groups. One of my 06s is a Weatherby, but it isn't SUB-MOA, that gun is still a great shooter and I don't think a SUB-MOA was necessary, but it came with an upgraded stock and a heavy barrel with the varmint special. For the minimal out of pocket I thought I'd take the upgrade. Of course, that didn't include the price of my ticket package for the raffle...It's a "free" gun as far as my wife knows. :lol:

Anyway, I can't wait to throw some lead down the barrel. I need to pay some bills during the next couple months, but around June I'll be shopping for some quality glass for it. Leaning toward a Nikon Monarch, but I'll keep my options open if any great deals present themself.










A large pic located here:
http://www.sierralibre.com/admin/fotos/707_1.jpg


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Thats a sweet looking rifle! You chose well....that gun will get things done! Congrats. The Nikon Monarch are a good choice....if you want to save some cash for the gas tank and some ammo, take a close look at the 4.5-14 Nikon Buckmaster, an excellent scope for about $280. 

I've been looking at a Stainless Vanguard in .243 with the green camo or snow camo synthetic stock option. Nice guns for the money!


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## WAUB-MUKWA (Dec 13, 2003)

Sib! Get someone to reload some varmint rounds for that 30-06! They make a 110 grain V-Max that is a great round and you don't have to worry much about the wind. That load would get you easely past 500 yards too for varmints. Keep a couple of them in your pocket when you deer hunt and when you see a coyote switch it out and pop that mutt! Good choice on the new rifle too! Nice one.  We will look foward to pictures later on after you connect with the varmints.


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## joefsu (Jan 9, 2005)

Brian you luck SOB! Did you win that at the South Kent dinner? I won a Mossberg 4x4 in in 7mm Mag. last month at a NWTF banquette in Iron River. I would have gladly taken that .300WSM off your hands. :evil: I'll be back in GR in May so I'm sure I'll see you at the South Kent shoot this summer. 

Joe


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