# Muzzleloader Sabots - hard loading



## jmoser (Sep 11, 2002)

Recently I tried some Hornady SST sabots in my Encore. These are 300 gr, .45 caliber (.452") bullets in a .50 cal sabot. They shoot very well but -

I have had difficulty loading these even on a clean barrel, last night I took a spare bulk bag of sabots, put in a standard .45 bullet, and measured the diameter at .5045" - .5050". The SSTs I measured at .505" - .506" diameter. That ~.001" difference is probably more than enough to explain the tough loading I have been experiencing.

Just curious if others have noticed this with the SSTs or maybe I just have a 'tight' bore? FYI the SST bulet itself measured right on at .452", same as the handgun bullet I used for comparison. The difference appears to be in the plastic sabot itself.

Next range trip I will try the SST bullet in one of the bulk bag sabots.

I may just go back to loose XTP JHPs in bulk sabots - they shoot darn well and are cheaper than the SSTs. Only went to the SSTs since the XTPs are not designed for the higher terminal [impact] velocities.


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## jayzbird (May 19, 2005)

jmoser-
My encore has the exact same deal. Also, my friends omega does the same thing. But, when my brother puts them in his remington, or my nephew puts them in his cva they slide right in. I think the Thompson Center guns have a little tighter barrels than most of the other manufacturers out there. Which isn't a bad thing right? As well, the xtp's slide right in my gun too. Guess we'll just have to live with the exceptional accuracy of the Thompson Center muzzleloaders eh?


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Yep! Well not in the SST, but the 300 grain Shockwave (same thing) are a beast to load in my Encore! They seem to shoot well though, but I have not really put them to the test. It's interesting, but the 250 gr Shockwaves shoot great, yet load much easier. I believe they have the same exact diameter as well. I think that the little extra length of the 300 grain has something to do with it.....just enough extra friction with the longer bullet putting more pressure on the sabot. I'm sure that would cause some pressure spikes as well but so far so good!


During the initial release of the shockwaves, TC's sabot supplier was having issues with QC, there were a number of batches that had problems. That seems to be fixed though.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Jayz is correct as well, TC seems to have much tighter bores than most! The shockwaves in all size load pretty easy in my Remington.


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## Nick Adams (Mar 10, 2005)

jmoser said:


> Only went to the SSTs since the XTPs are not designed for the higher terminal [impact] velocities.


Hornady makes a .452 XTP-MAG (240gr and 300gr) which is designed to handle higher velocities than the regular XTPs (250gr and 300gr).

-na


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## jmoser (Sep 11, 2002)

When range time allows I will also shoot a test group using bore butter in between SST shots. I remember 'breaking in' my Encore this way for the first 10-20 shots way back when - do not remember what the groups were like.

I know T/C says sabots should be used with no lube but its worth a 3 shot group to see. Maybe a little lube will help loading without sacrificing accuracy.

I also agree with the 250 vs 300 SSTs - the 300s are much harder to load, probably is due to the longer engagement area which presses more of the sabot length against the barrel lands.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Nick Adams said:


> Hornady makes a .452 XTP-MAG (240gr and 300gr) which is designed to handle higher velocities than the regular XTPs (250gr and 300gr).
> 
> -na


The only difference is the sabot, the Mag sabots are a little harder and are able to withstand more pressure/heat/velocity. The XTP bullets are still the same.


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## Nick Adams (Mar 10, 2005)

Swamp Monster said:


> The only difference is the sabot, the Mag sabots are a little harder and are able to withstand more pressure/heat/velocity. The XTP bullets are still the same.


I wasn't referring to sabots or saboted muzzleloader bullets.

Hornady makes an XTP-MAG _handgun_ bullet (no sabot, for the .454 Casull). These hold together better than the 'normal' XTPs at higher velocities. (the original poster liked how normal XTPs loaded, but not their terminal performance)

For what it's worth, the Sierra 300gr jacket soft point (.4515) and the Speer 300 PSP (.451) are both a bit tougher than a normal XTP and being slightly smaller in size may work better in the tight loading sabot situation.

Only speculating, I don't know for sure. I only shoot them in cartridge guns. 

-na


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Nick Adams said:


> I wasn't referring to sabots or saboted muzzleloader bullets.
> 
> Hornady makes an XTP-MAG _handgun_ bullet (no sabot, for the .454 Casull). These hold together better than the 'normal' XTPs at higher velocities. (the original poster liked how normal XTPs loaded, but not their terminal performance)
> 
> -na



You're right, I had forgotten that they have a 300 grain MAG bullet as well. And yes, it is available with sabots for muzzleloading. The MAG bullets have a sinlge cannelure while the standard XTP's have two cannelures, at least in the 300 grain. I have used the MAG 300 gr XTP's with very good success in my Remington.


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## Nick Adams (Mar 10, 2005)

Swamp Monster said:


> I have used the MAG 300 gr XTP's with very good success in my Remington.


Are you finding the 300's neccesary for deer hunting in Michigan?

I shot 300's for a while (Win94 Trapper/45 Colt, std xtp, 1450 fps), but eventually came to the conculsion that it was more than I really needed in a deer load. I have since moved to a 250 xtp (std xtp, 1500 fps).

I'm interested in your opinion on the performance difference between 300gr vs 250gr slugs (in the first 150 yards).

-na


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## jmoser (Sep 11, 2002)

Nick Adams said:


> Are you finding the 300's neccesary for deer hunting in Michigan?
> 
> I'm interested in your opinion on the performance difference between 300gr vs 250gr slugs (in the first 150 yards).
> 
> -na


Either is fine out to 150 yards- it is just my personal preference for the 300s at slightly lower velocities. I use heavier bullets in .44 mag / .45 Colt handguns as well as .45/70 rifles and MZs; all are limited to 100-150 yards as a general rule. 

Why waste that beautiful big bore on a tiny bullet?


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## Nick Adams (Mar 10, 2005)

jmoser said:


> Why waste that beautiful big bore on a tiny bullet?


I understand. ;-)

Thanks for the reply.

-na


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## redneckdan (Dec 14, 2004)

In my mk-85 I use 90grs of fffg (yes thats 3fs) behind a MMP sabot and an XTP 250gr. The bullet fully expands, pretty much liquifies the lungs and lodges under the skin on the other side. I don't worry about needing two exit holes to track the deer because I've never had on run more than 50 yds.


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