# I can not believe this!



## rcleofly (Feb 18, 2012)

I had a hunting incident at my child's school last year. I came in after a phone call saying I needed to pic up my son, he was sick. Well, it was Veterans Day and a bunch of us get together every year and hunt. So I headed to the school straight from the blind. Walked into the school waders and all. The lady at the desk looked at me funny and asked how may I help you. I told her I was there for my son. My son came in and asked how the hunting was going. We head for the door and bump into a teacher who chats with me about hunting for a couple of minutes. He's a hunter also. Walk out to the car to be met by security. Said the way I was dressed scared people and started asking me if I had a gun in my vehicle. Luckily I left the blind in a flash with intentions on returning. So my gun was still in the blind with my buddies. If I would have had my gun in my car that day I would have been jailed for sure. 

You have to be super careful with schools. They can't afford to be easy on this kind of stuff.


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## sNeAkYpEtE11 (Feb 7, 2011)

Man I would have been so pissed! My boy is only 11mo so I have a while to go before he is ready for school. But I would like if you would post the name of this school, so I can be sure to NEVER send my children there. I'm sure others would like to know as well. 
You did the right thing by cooling off. That was a really smart move


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## dlehnert (Jul 1, 2013)

I agree that cooling down is the best thing to do but I would take a week before I did anything. My reasoning for this is because you have very strong feelings about this and you my get carried away in the moment if you have this discussion to early. Another reason to wait is to see if this was just her opinion or if it also has something to do with the school's policy on guns. If they have a zero tolerance policy then you should be notified of the situation along with your son and what the consequences are if something like that happens again. This will also help you with your position on the topic when you decide to talk to the teacher and administration.


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## Swamp Boss (Mar 14, 2003)

Handle it , as you said, after you calm down. Let the teacher talk first to gain perspective, however be prepared for the left wing public educational system drivel. Lots of great advice here already but never back down from a teacher!


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

i disagree with waiting. i would put them on notice immediately and schedule a meeting asap.


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## RonSwanson (Apr 20, 2016)

Cooling down and gaining perspective is important. At that age, the topic of hunting might not be appropriate for the audience. Calling a meeting might make you feel better but that would probably be the end of it. From the story, it reads like he was not reprimanded or embarrassed in front of the entire class. Lot of school left to start burning bridges. 

It is my responsibility to help shape my sons' character and land ethic, not the schools.


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## TNL (Jan 6, 2005)

First, good on you for taking a cooling off period. It certainly shows who's the more mature person in this situation. Obviously, going off on a teacher may not have the intended outcome. 

Second, the teacher breached serious protocol. She has every resource to contact you; cell, text, email, to voice any concerns she may have. She should've also copied her principal as well to cover her actions. She should've taken your son aside quietly to explain that she needs to have some time to review the assignment. In no way should the student think he did anything wrong in this instance - he was following directions. 

You should absolutely have a meeting with the principal. I would ask that the teacher be there as well. The teacher needs to explain her actions. She also needs to make an apology/explanation to the class. Period. Perhaps she is the one who needs an education - maybe she could bring in a DNR biologist as a guest speaker or someone from DU, NTWF, RMEF, etc. As they say, make some lemonade out of the lemons.

DO NOT get into a hunting debate. It's a no win with these people. Simply tell them that hunting is a proud family tradition that promotes respect for animals and conservation. If she has any further concerns, she should contact you immediately.


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

I bought my first dozen deeks from a teacher of mine. Had this teacher last hour my senior year, he let me skate a couple times on good duck days. How times have changed...


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

TNL said:


> First, good on you for taking a cooling off period. It certainly shows who's the more mature person in this situation. Obviously, going off on a teacher may not have the intended outcome.
> 
> Second, the teacher breached serious protocol. She has every resource to contact you; cell, text, email, to voice any concerns she may have. She should've also copied her principal as well to cover her actions. She should've taken your son aside quietly to explain that she needs to have some time to review the assignment. In no way should the student think he did anything wrong in this instance - he was following directions.
> 
> ...


Good post and what i expect from tnl, he knows what hes talkin about when it comes to this stuff.  i would take him with me when i went to the school. Lol


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## BucksandDucks (May 25, 2010)

I wouldn't put up with that either. My second grader took her duck and goose calls in to school and got to blow them for her class but I have heard of some teachers not allowing the word KILL to be spoken


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

"Time to be looking for another school. Too bad we are forced to pay taxes for this kind of BS.

I was driving a school bus for a bit earlier this year and one of the kids had to do a dance to "Splish Splash" by Bobby Darin. I told her about some of his other, better work, like "Mack the Knife" (Theme From a Three Penny Opera) and she said they could not use that song there because it had the word "knife" in it.


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## Daisycutter (Jul 7, 2007)

Wow, lots of great feedback and thoughts here. Thank you all. I appreciate all the different ideas on how each of us would handle it going forward but we seem united in the idea that something is very wrong here with this situation. My feeling is they are going to lean heavily on the zero tolerance concept and the fact that he drew a gun. However, my concern is that his perception of however it was handled was clearly that hunting was the problem.

I think at this point I will work to at least have the teacher clarify, in front of the class, that his presentation on hunting, as something important to him, was not a problem. And just as someone else may have presented their preference for video games, these differing values and opinions can be a good thing. I agree with many posters here that convincing anyone that hunting is a good thing is an uphill battle and is likely not worth alienating my son from the teacher in the second week of class, even though I know the principal to be a hunter as we have talked about how we used to take our shotguns to school and go pheasant hunting immediately at the end of the day.


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## Sprytle (Jan 8, 2005)

Sad that that's what its come down to in schools nowadays. Im 51, graduated in 83...we all had guns in our trucks in the parking lot to go hunting right after school. I used to hunt with a couple of my teachers in the woods right behind the back school parking lot. A kid in my 10th grade class brought a Rem 870 into class and had a demo on taking it all apart and putting it back together and proper cleaning.

Sad nowadays!!

My 18 yr old daughter just started college this fall and even though im proud that she is, on the other hand, colleges are the worst for left wing progressive BS, but she has a good head on her shoulders and have discussed this...

You have every right to be upset!


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## Ken Martin (Sep 30, 2003)

Years ago a good friend told us about his kids coming home from school crying. They said there were people there that day and gave a presentation about how hunting was cruel and those that hunt will beat their wives, kids, pets, etc. He wasn't a happy camper. The school had HSUS in there for a presentation. He, being active in MUCC and a cop, made them bring in SCI and Eddy the Eagle (NRA) for a presentation.

In 2008 my 9 year old came home and TOLD us his teacher told him that we had to vote for Obama. We were there the next day with the teacher and Superintendent. There was a lot of uhhh, ummm, well, and such on their part.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Ken Martin said:


> TOLD us his teacher told him that we had to vote for Obama.


Should have been fired for that.


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## Bigeejakes (Nov 11, 2011)

I'm a teacher (high school) and I would say it that as teachers we are asked to leave our personal beliefs at the door. I share stories of my life with the students, but I know, and have been trained that we shouldn't impose our own views on the students - tell them what they should believe regardless if it is religion, politics etc. If a student wants to know my opinions I will talk to them individually after class. 

I'm obviously on the side that students need to be educated about guns, and how to use them safely. I'm the coach of a scholastic clay target team, but I don't cut off (and wouldn't) students if they were presenting about anything that didn't agree with my values... ( Vegetarian, gun control etc) Especially if that is the point of the project. For a lot of projects I actually encourage debate!

I would discuss it with the teacher before jumping to the principal / super... Get the teachers side of it, not saying she did the right thing, but there have been a lot of times as a teacher that a story was told differently to parents than how it happened in my mind... 

The teacher really may have done exactly what your son said, part of it may have been his perception, but either way, the teacher should know how your son felt about it.

A lot of times a phone call or an email can solve a lot of issues.


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

My grandson had something similar happen to him. He has been trapping with his dad since he could walk and the teacher asked each one what they did on heir time off. He told the class he went trapping with his dad and the teacher went off on him. He came home crying and my son about went thru the roof. My son works for the school board pres and when he told him about it they worked up a plan. My grandson took a beaver pelt to school for show and tell and she went off on him again, but what the teacher did not know is the school board pres was standing out of sight so he could hear all that was said. The next school board meeting got interesting and the teacher was let go. This was in northern lower mich 3 or 4 years ago.


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## Ontario Gunner (Oct 21, 2003)

It's funny,, my "wife" teaches grade 7-8 for several years.. Every couple years she gets a parent in too ask if she could put together 7-10 days worth of homework stretching between certain dates.. She looks that parent in the face and depending on the dates says where is he/she going moose, bear or deer hunting.. She knows what season is when... She usually gets an odd look from the parent.. She then tells them there is no way in he!! She will put together 7-10 days worth of homework.. Your kid will learn more in this time away than they could at school,, and bring me in a steak if you get lucky...


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## Swamp Boss (Mar 14, 2003)

DC please keep us informed on your progress on this matter!


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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

Scout 2 said:


> My grandson had something similar happen to him. He has been trapping with his dad since he could walk and the teacher asked each one what they did on heir time off. He told the class he went trapping with his dad and the teacher went off on him. He came home crying and my son about went thru the roof. My son works for the school board pres and when he told him about it they worked up a plan. My grandson took a beaver pelt to school for show and tell and she went off on him again, but what the teacher did not know is the school board pres was standing out of sight so he could hear all that was said. The next school board meeting got interesting and the teacher was let go. This was in northern lower mich 3 or 4 years ago.


Bravo !!!! A happy ending for once.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

flighthunter said:


> did she ask for seconds?


Of course!


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## omega58 (Sep 3, 2003)

I bring a lot of personal stories to my class and share with my students, a lot of my stories are hunting and fishing and spending time in the outdoors. I don't push anything on students, but when I have something to share about "good things" that happened I share it along with them. I have a kid about the same age as my students and they love hearing about him and his younger brother.

Last week my 9 year old needed 5 things in a bag that were things he liked to do, his bag included a baseball, playing cards, dokken grouse for yard work with the dogs, a senko fishing lure, and a spent shotgun shell

I hope the meeting went well!


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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

This will probably get taken down but it's pretty funny and relates to this topic.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

For "pioneer days" my daughter got extra credit for bringing in smoked trout. It went over so well I had to make another batch for her to bring in on her birthday. At conferences, I learned her teacher always wanted to fish the big lake. I gave him an IOU and sad I'd take him, as soon as he was not her teacher, as I don't want anyone to think I'm currying favor.

Of course she gets this guy again this year so I need to extend the IOU.

Her math teacher conferences are about as much fun as a meeting with an oncologist. Blah blah monotone blah blah you're going to die. Then we meet her math teacher and he's like "I need to see some pictures!"


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

This will probably get taken down but it's pretty funny and relates to this topic.


I told my daughter and my wife, after my wife's new boss moved up from Chicago and could not understand why we let all the corn die (uh, if's feed corn, not sweet corn) and how wasteful that was, that when everything goes to hell people like that and those who are used to sucking on the gov'ment teat and can't take care of themselves are the ones we will end up eating.


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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> This will probably get taken down but it's pretty funny and relates to this topic.
> 
> 
> I told my daughter and my wife, after my wife's new boss moved up from Chicago and could not understand why we let all the corn die (uh, if's feed corn, not sweet corn) and how wasteful that was, that when everything goes to hell people like that and those who are used to sucking on the gov'ment teat and can't take care of themselves are the ones we will end up eating.


They are soft, tender and taste like the chickens that they are.


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## Timber (Jan 1, 2009)

She is a liberal she will lie her way out of it anyways.


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## Retiredducker (Oct 11, 2011)

I would probably compose a well written letter, copy to principal , superintendent and school board . Then request a meeting with any and all parties .


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## Botiz (Oct 21, 2010)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> lol i had my gun in my truck with canoe/decoys in the back. i went hunting every morning and parked 3 spots from the front door. I left school to goto the draw (big no no) and never got into any trouble. It was well known a few of us duck hunted and was no secret we had guns in our trucks. never crossed anyones mind...this was 85-88' timeframe.
> 
> and yes. there is a point in time when most wake up to the education system being an indoctrination. used to be not such a big deal as nothing was overly pushed on kids. Now with so much polarity in the big issues....its become much more prevalent.


I did the same and I graduated in 2006. All depends on where you go. I went to a private school.


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## Daisycutter (Jul 7, 2007)

Meeting was...interesting, to say the least. No real resolution and a bit of an impasse from s school rule vs common sense standpoint.

I am not near a computer and I'm too long winded to type details on my phone but will try to share the story tomorrow.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Botiz said:


> I did the same and I graduated in 2006. All depends on where you go. I went to a private school.


I also did the same and I graduated in '02. Small town, small school. We had late start Wednesday's so it wasn'tall that uncommon to see a deer in the back of a truck at school.


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

Cool down, and collect your thoughts, maybe even write up bullet points of how you want to present the issues, and go in there and LAY DOWN THE LAW. Be respectful, but confident that what happened is absurd and inappropriate. The pussification of America is at an all time high, and we all need to do our best to respectfully and wisely combat it.

The school should permit your son to present a research project on where the school's lunch room gets all it's meat from, and how those animals were treated and killed, and then compare that to how you and your son hunt. Ask the teacher how she feels about having somebody else do her killing for her.


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

TNL said:


> You should absolutely have a meeting with the principal. I would ask that the teacher be there as well. The teacher needs to explain her actions. She also needs to make an apology/explanation to the class. Period. Perhaps she is the one who needs an education - maybe she could bring in a DNR biologist as a guest speaker or someone from DU, NTWF, RMEF, etc. As they say, make some lemonade out of the lemons.


And THIS


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## jwinks (Mar 20, 2014)

Lamarsh said:


> The pussification of America is at an all time high


Don't use this phrase, lol.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Does it offend you?

When my room mate in college was a boy scout, if you complained on a hike the counselor would stop and say " listen everyone, Dave has sand in his vagina." You learned fast to man up and shut up. Imagine that today...


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## jwinks (Mar 20, 2014)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> Does it offend you?


I meant, if you want to have a productive conversation with someone who doesn't hunt, you shouldnt say things like that. They will label you as ignorant and won't actually listen to anything you say. And it was more of a joke, considering that the OP sounds like a fairly rational person.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Daisycutter said:


> Meeting was...interesting, to say the least. No real resolution and a bit of an impasse from s school rule vs common sense standpoint.
> 
> I am not near a computer and I'm too long winded to type details on my phone but will try to share the story tomorrow.


waiting for the story.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

We're good. I've hunted with the OP. Kind of miss his posts around here.


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## WoodyMG (May 29, 2013)

jwinks said:


> I meant, if you want to have a productive conversation with someone who doesn't hunt, you shouldnt say things like that. They will label you as ignorant and won't actually listen to anything you say. And it was more of a joke, considering that the OP sounds like a fairly rational person.


That there is a problem. You've let them dictate the tone of every conversation. You don't win a debate by making you're opponent feel good about themselves.


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## jwinks (Mar 20, 2014)

WoodyMG said:


> You don't win a debate by making you're opponent feel good about themselves.


 It has nothing to do with how they feel about themselves, its how they feel about you. Anti-hunters have an image of hunters that they are ignorant, rude, violent, uneducated slobs, and if you reinforce that image, it doesn't help the cause at all. While maybe most hunters are republican voters, there are lots of hunters who are democratic voters or even LIB*RALS. That tells me that there is a middle ground about hunting that two rational people should be able to agree on, given the objective facts about the situation.


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

jwinks said:


> It has nothing to do with how they feel about themselves, its how they feel about you. Anti-hunters have an image of hunters that they are ignorant, rude, violent, uneducated slobs, and if you reinforce that image, it doesn't help the cause at all. While maybe most hunters are republican voters, there are lots of hunters who are democratic voters or even LIB*RALS. That tells me that there is a middle ground about hunting that two rational people should be able to agree on, given the objective facts about the situation.


You have more faith in people and politics than I do.


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## WoodyMG (May 29, 2013)

jwinks said:


> It has nothing to do with how they feel about themselves, its how they feel about you. Anti-hunters have an image of hunters that they are ignorant, rude, violent, uneducated slobs, and if you reinforce that image, it doesn't help the cause at all. While maybe most hunters are republican voters, there are lots of hunters who are democratic voters or even LIB*RALS. That tells me that there is a middle ground about hunting that two rational people should be able to agree on, given the objective facts about the situation.


If someone is open minded and willing to change their mind, they don't come in with preconceptions of who a hunter is. The PC crowd and liberals have for the last 20-30 years slowly maid it uncouth to say your point of view unless it is the same as theirs. If you believe there has been a pussification of our children it won't matter how you say it, they are not going to agree with you. The type of people who are ardent anti hunters don't base decisions on facts, they base them on feelings. The people who are willing to have their minds changed won't care if you say "pussification" or "reduction in ability to cope with hard situations" they are there to hear facts. If you follow up your terminology with facts their minds will change if you don't, they won't. The others need life experiences to change their minds.... a large scale economic crash, a plane crash in the Amazon... Something extraordinary.
View attachment 226990


You think this lady is going to change her mind?


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

I always went to the parent teacher meetings when I could and made it a point to openly talk about hunting or fishing and that I would take the kids with me. I also made it a point to discuss that hunting and fishing was an important part of their heritage. Anti hunting discussions never took place in their classrooms as far as I know. I did a presentation on trapping while I was in college and it went rather well, the professor and the class really liked it.


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## jwinks (Mar 20, 2014)

WoodyMG said:


> If someone is open minded and willing to change their mind, they don't come in with preconceptions of who a hunter is.


I think that a majority of people have very little understanding of hunting, and they get their opinions from pop culture references to hunting which are universally bad, because hollywood is universally liberal. So I think there are many open-minded, reasonable people, who just have no idea what actual hunting is like, and the strict ethics that most hunters follow. I can't tell you how many times I have talked to people, who when i mention duck hunting, their first question is always, "Do you eat them?", and I have to explain, this is the whole point of hunting. People don't understand that the meat they buy at the store comes from living animals. 



WoodyMG said:


> The people who are willing to have their minds changed won't care if you say "pussification" or "reduction in ability to cope with hard situations" they are there to hear facts


I strongly disagree with this. I think that a majority of the population would be offended by you using the word "pussification", and reasonable discourse ends when someone becomes offended, because their feelings begin to dictate their opinions. I think saying "reduction in ability to cope with hard situations" is a dramatically better thing to say. I think its actually informative about what your goals are, and isn't at all offensive. If you are trying to convince someone of something contrary to their current worldview, you should try not to offend them. 



WoodyMG said:


> You think this lady is going to change her mind?


 Lol. No, I wouldn't bother talking to her.


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## Highball28 (Oct 17, 2014)

Last year gave an oral report to my tenth grade hyper liberal English teacher about why hunting is healthy and necessary. Made a very strong and clear argument, best paper and report I've ever written/given. A+ from any other teacher.. she gave me a B but I still call it a win!


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## WoodyMG (May 29, 2013)

jwinks said:


> I think that a majority of people have very little understanding of hunting, and they get their opinions from pop culture references to hunting which are universally bad, because hollywood is universally liberal. So I think there are many open-minded, reasonable people, who just have no idea what actual hunting is like, and the strict ethics that most hunters follow. I can't tell you how many times I have talked to people, who when i mention duck hunting, their first question is always, "Do you eat them?", and I have to explain, this is the whole point of hunting. People don't understand that the meat they buy at the store comes from living animals.
> 
> 
> I strongly disagree with this. I think that a majority of the population would be offended by you using the word "pussification", and reasonable discourse ends when someone becomes offended, because their feelings begin to dictate their opinions. I think saying "reduction in ability to cope with hard situations" is a dramatically better thing to say. I think its actually informative about what your goals are, and isn't at all offensive. If you are trying to convince someone of something contrary to their current worldview, you should try not to offend them.
> ...


You're right in this said world we live in hunters need to be careful of their public image, but I'll be honest with you I'm sick of it and would rather call it a pussification.


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## Daisycutter (Jul 7, 2007)

Sorry for the delay on the update, work and life have been crazy!

So, the meeting with the teacher was eye opening. As many have discussed in the later portions of this thread, it is baffling to me how we have created a generation of people seemingly incapable of rational thought or critical thinking skills. The teacher’s version was close enough to my son’s to make me happy that he had relayed it to me the best he could from a ten year old memory. Her take was that she wasn’t as harsh as he made her out to be, but again three sides to every story.

The gist is that she absolutely feels there is no place in the classroom to discuss hunting. You see, “…hunting includes guns and weapons, and here at the school we have a zero tolerance policy for any of those things. Drawing them, discussing them, even alluding to them is cause for disciplinary action.” Her take is that she let him off quite easy for not suspending him after drawing a gun. I truly tried to listen to her perspective, ask some clarifying questions (because it was all so unbelievable to me) and present some reasonable conversation about understanding that there is a responsibility to provide a safe learning environment and why I didn’t feel any of this had violated that. Bottom line, it went nowhere. She is 100% convinced that she handled it appropriately.

Finally, when I was beyond frustrated I asked whether we had stopped teaching about any early American history, or even worse yet what about the Revolutionary war? Was that still part of Curriculum? The Civil War? World War 1? Any of these? When she said of course they were part of the curriculum she seemed offended by me questioning whether she saw the hypocrisy in that and how she could reconcile that with her position on the hunting presentation from my son.

It was quite clear we were getting nowhere, so I recommended we have a follow up discussion and include some people from administration because I was certain that one of us was misinterpreting something and I thought it best for all current and future students that we clarify it as soon as possible. So, long story short, follow up meeting with the teacher, principal and likely the superintendent is in the scheduling process now, hopefully for sometime early next week.


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## SWMbruiser (Jan 25, 2012)

Daisycutter said:


> Sorry for the delay on the update, work and life have been crazy!
> 
> So, the meeting with the teacher was eye opening. As many have discussed in the later portions of this thread, it is baffling to me how we have created a generation of people seemingly incapable of rational thought or critical thinking skills. The teacher’s version was close enough to my son’s to make me happy that he had relayed it to me the best he could from a ten year old memory. Her take was that she wasn’t as harsh as he made her out to be, but again three sides to every story.
> 
> ...


Scary how much our way of life is under siege


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## WoodyMG (May 29, 2013)

Why did you agree to a one on one?


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

damn daisycut, thats what my original fears was....I hope for the sake of all us you stick to yer guns (sorry for pun) and go after this. This absolutely needs to be called out and if you need to bring in heavyweights (hunter associations, publications, groups...whatever, do it). send a message if this does not go well with the supervisors.


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## Brougham (Jan 29, 2010)

Glad you followed up with the teacher meeting. Thanks for carrying the flag for all of us. Not easy, and time consuming. A+ for you Dad on sticking up for your boy ! And sticking up for all of us.


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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

*Good luck! *

http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-324-43532b

(18)

http://michiganwildlifecouncil.org/contact-us/


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Big Frank 25 said:


> *Good luck! *
> 
> http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-324-43532b
> 
> ...


thats a great start. good ammo to take with.


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