# CWAC Meeting



## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

I was just messing around. I know it's not possible for everyone to show up, hence the reason we have reps. Apparently though some of them are only worried about their own agenda. Oh well.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

i swear craig. i like you but man you must go through life looking at everything (not just ducks) as glass half empty...if your posts aren't just negative....they are misleading with bad information.

1. minutes are always available. agendas are always available. 

2. since your ASSUMING your rep isn't listening to you why don't you try to replace him? you spend more time bitching about the ****...if you invested half that keyboard time into being a CWAC rep, you might come out ahead.


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## fsamie1 (Mar 8, 2008)

what else is being banned this year? It is time to ban decoys. Shells probably next year.


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## fsamie1 (Mar 8, 2008)

craigrh13 said:


> I was just messing around. I know it's not possible for everyone to show up, hence the reason we have reps. Apparently though some of them are only worried about their own agenda. Oh well.


it was obvious to me you are messing around. "some people just go through life" just too serious or maybe duh.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> i swear craig. i like you but man you must go through life looking at everything (not just ducks) as glass half empty...if your posts aren't just negative....they are misleading with bad information.
> 
> 1. minutes are always available. agendas are always available.
> 
> 2. since your ASSUMING your rep isn't listening to you why don't you try to replace him? you spend more time bitching about the ****...if you invested half that keyboard time into being a CWAC rep, you might come out ahead.


lol don't take anything I say seriously. I'm obviously joking. 

I wouldn't even know how to replace a rep and I sure as hell don't have time to do it. I haven't had a Saturday off in a good while. However, I would at least expect a reply from my rep. That's not too much to ask for is it?


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Seems like we need a 30 day 3 bird two mallard season to "adjust" a few people to be thankful for what we have instead of carping about what THEY don't.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Not too mention I've received a couple messages from former reps saying it's pretty damn hard to get any change in the south zone for people outside Saginaw bay and Erie, they said there is definitely some politics involved. I'll live with the seasons we have just as I have for 20 plus years.


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## fsamie1 (Mar 8, 2008)

hammerdown said:


> one of the south zone reps does not know his head from a hole in ground.. I bet he was quiet as he was lost after the first sentence.


who are the south zone reps? How are they elected? Is there a term limit? I try to become a rep for next year as soon as I find out what NRC and CWAC mean? Duck season must be over because I am bored already.


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## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

NRC = Natural Resources commission CWAC= Citizens Waterfowl Advisory Committee 

You are appointed or asked by the DNR to become an at large member, or are assigned the position by different orgs.that are represented, i:e, Harsons Island rep. Waterfowl USA rep. etc. I was on for 8 years, some of that time as a board member, a year as Vice chair and a few more years as Chair Person. Good experience, but its Political for sure.


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> Seems like we need a 30 day 3 bird two mallard season to "adjust" a few people to be thankful for what we have instead of carping about what THEY don't.


I too remember the dark days of MI duck hunting...Most of the 30 day seasons I hunted we had that great point system...


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## duckbuster2 (Aug 14, 2008)

Spartan88 said:


> I too remember the dark days of MI duck hunting...Most of the 30 day seasons I hunted we had that great point system...


No point system in those 30 day seasons,they were long before that.


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## hammerdown (Sep 28, 2011)

fsamie1 said:


> who are the south zone reps? How are they elected? Is there a term limit? I try to become a rep for next year as soon as I find out what NRC and CWAC mean? Duck season must be over because I am bored already.


 I have tried to 3 times you half to fill a application out and get appointed . depends where you are in south zone who the reps are my area south west lower our guy only hunts 2 times a year and is the most incompetent individual I've ever met in my life.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

duckbuster2 said:


> No point system in those 30 day seasons,they were long before that.


not true. i hunted 30 and points so its not that long ago. also hunted 30/3 bird. i remember 3 of us shooting 30 teal in the woods on a 30 day season (was during the thanksgivin split and shot 30 greenwings. 2 bands.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

craigrh13 said:


> lol don't take anything I say seriously. I'm obviously joking.
> 
> I wouldn't even know how to replace a rep and I sure as hell don't have time to do it. I haven't had a Saturday off in a good while. However, I would at least expect a reply from my rep. That's not too much to ask for is it?


maybe you are but not everyone knows your sense of humor. i had 2 pms from guys asking me if there is minutes posted somewhere and calling cwac ******** because no records. lol. see what you perceive as humor can be viewed incendiary by someone else.

now add in fsamie trying too hard to get everyone inflamed and you have sentiment going in a very unhelpful direction.


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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> maybe you are but not everyone knows your sense of humor. i had 2 pms from guys asking me if there is minutes posted somewhere and calling cwac ******** because no records. lol. see what you perceive as humor can be viewed incendiary by someone else.
> 
> now add in fsamie trying too hard to get everyone inflamed and you have sentiment going in a very unhelpful direction.


I remember 30 days/points and 30 days/3 as well, with the Thanksgiving 4 day split. All the complaining nowadays, they have no idea how good they have it.
That got me into hunting Canada.


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## duckbuster2 (Aug 14, 2008)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> not true. i hunted 30 and points so its not that long ago. also hunted 30/3 bird. i remember 3 of us shooting 30 teal in the woods on a 30 day season (was during the thanksgivin split and shot 30 greenwings. 2 bands.


The point system started in 1971 and stopped in the mid 80's I think 1984. The 3 duck days were the late 80's and early 90's I think.I liked the point system you could shoot a lot of ducks if you picked the 10 pointers.






Most of the seasons with the point system were 45 or 50 days.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> maybe you are but not everyone knows your sense of humor. i had 2 pms from guys asking me if there is minutes posted somewhere and calling cwac ******** because no records. lol. see what you perceive as humor can be viewed incendiary by someone else.
> 
> now add in fsamie trying too hard to get everyone inflamed and you have sentiment going in a very unhelpful direction.


I figured the whole "you and the 30k other licensed duck hunters" comment would be a good enough clue in that I was joking. That was a sarcastic remark at everyone saying "to show up and see for yourself". Which would be great, it's obviously just not possible for everyone to be able to make it. Hence why we have reps that are supposed to represent us and bring up our concerns/thoughts. One day I will make it up there.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

I LOVED the point system, but not the 30 day season. IF we had a point system now we could shoot more than six ducks a day, based on how many species are way above long term average. 

,


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

duckbuster2 said:


> I think.I liked the point system you could shoot a lot of ducks if you picked the 10 pointers


Shoot down here if you picked 10 pointers, then shot your five bonus bluebills you could shoot 15 a day! THEN, there was a period that, AFTER duck season ended, we had a "black and white" season, when we could hunt only bluebills for a while.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

I was thrilled when the hooded merg limit went from 1-2, as we had a place full of them. Either that was a blip on the migration pattern, or the hoodies have taken a beating, as I've shot like 2 of them since they changed it, and never had a chance to shoot more than one in a trip.

Never hunted under points but back in the three bird era we set up off my friend's cottage, a big flock of mallards came in, he shot two, waded out and picked them up and said "well back to the football game". It was all of a 5 minute hunt for him. I can hardly think of loading up the Jeep and driving 4 hours to a managed area or even two hours to Shiawassee for two mallards. I'd switch to black powder or a 28 gauge or shooting left handed to make it more interesting.


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

duckbuster2 said:


> No point system in those 30 day seasons,they were long before that.


I started duck hunting in 1977 and we had the point system, and we also had 30 day seasons...

In 1983 duck season was over by the time of the U of M/OSU football game. On the last day I hunted before that game I went to I shot a black duck, 100 points and I was done for the day...


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Spartan88 said:


> I started duck hunting in 1977 and we had the point system, and we also had 30 day seasons...


The point system, and the short seasons, are not connected. Short seasons were due to drought and poor habitat which lead to low continental waterfowl numbers. 

You could easily have a 30 day season under our present limit system if there was another extended drought. We could even see a year with no season at all. We must push hard to continue all the habitat work we are doing to insure that every drop of moisture possible is retained in the nesting areas when it does fall.


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

DecoySlayer said:


> The point system, and the short seasons, are not connected. Short seasons were due to drought and poor habitat which lead to low continental waterfowl numbers.
> 
> You could easily have a 30 day season under our present limit system if there was another extended drought. We could even see a year with no season at all. We must push hard to continue all the habitat work we are doing to insure that every drop of moisture possible is retained in the nesting areas when it does fall.


Were you even in Michigan duck hunting from 77 to 90? Now I have to find my old regs and look at them. The only point I was making about 30 day season were that they sucked. And the point system sucked also, especially when teal went from 10 points to 20..

You are preaching to the choir about habitat and wetlands preservation with me. I was a DU member the 10 years I stopped duck hunting.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Spartan88 said:


> Were you even in Michigan duck hunting from 77 to 90? Now I have to find my old regs and look at them. The only point I was making about 30 day season were that they sucked. And the point system sucked also, especially when teal went from 10 points to 20..
> 
> You are preaching to the choir about habitat and wetlands preservation with me. I was a DU member the 10 years I stopped duck hunting.


No, I left Michigan in 1976 so I could find work. I was hunting all over during those years, England, Maryland, VA, SC mainly. I was not able to return until 2000. I started duck hunting in 1965. I remember what Pointe Mouillee looked like before get got washed away. I never stopped duck hunting. I have hunted them everywhere in the world, or this country, that I have lived. Duck hunting is kinda like breathing for me. 

All they would have done now with teal is cut them back from 6 to 4. It works out the same. 

Everyone should be involved with some kind of conservation work, double for those of us who hunt or fish. My wife and I are both involved with the Monroe County Chapter of DU and my wife is the state web master for DU Michigan. I am also involved with the Pointe Mouillee Waterfowl Festival and Michigan Duck Hunter's Tournament. I don't have any time for anymore. LOL!


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Jesus Jenny...how did this go from an invite to attend CWAC, to 2 or 3 pages bashing the old point system?

Couple things...I was in the peanut gallery Saturday along with several others who haunt this site, and shall remain nameless so that they don't get the **** beaten out of them as well 

First, the CWAC coordinator for the DNR is currently Don Avers. He does a good job. Could he do better? We ALL could do better. But my suggestion is if you want to see some things like agenda's or minutes posted on the website, contact Don at [email protected]. HOWEVER do it constructively. Bashing Don or any other DNR staff does nothing positive for us waterfowlers.

Second, the list of current CWAC members is posted on the DNR website at http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/CWAC_List_Of_Members_450259_7.pdf It's up to each of you to contact your rep(s) for your respective parts of the state. And contrary to what some of you said, several of the reps did READ emails and other input that they had gotten from their constituents. So most of them DO TAKE THEIR ROLE SERIOUSLY. Do they all? no. Just like you and I don't always take things seriously. REMEMBER...this is a volunteer gig, and not all of them can be as GOOD as all of you are 

Third, IMO the reason many of the Zone 3 (Southern LP) reps were pretty quiet is because it's basically "business as usual" due to the fact that it's pretty much guaranteed we will get liberal season dates again from the feds, and our dates will pretty much match what we had the last few years. The only real discussion points came in talking about if, or when, to have the split. And that was even pretty much a no-brainer.

Fourth, there was quite a bit of discussion from the DNR's main waterfowl point person Dave Luukkonen and waterfowl specialist Barb Avers about what the feds and flyway council are discussing for 2017 and out. A few of the high points...
1 - they likely will abandon the AHM system for some new management strategy. The reason is after all of these years of using the AHM system, we have had liberal seasons every year. So they feel this system is of no value any longer, and they need to develop something new.
2 - due to #1 above, the feds are apparently highly considering a 75 day season. Lots more discussion to come at the federal and Flyway Council levels, but they said we should have an idea where they are going by April or May. 
3 - they will allow 2 black ducks in our bag this year.
4 - they are leaning towards upping the bluebill bag by 1 bird. Also discussing upping redheads, but that's in the early stages.

Fifth - preliminary reports and anecdotal findings regarding this last early teal hunt are that hunters did better on shooting at teal and not other "non-target" species. Apparently the feds are considering either another experimental year, or just allowing an early teal season altogether. Again, more info to come later this spring/summer. 

There was a lot more discussed, but those are the main points that my aging brain can recall. Don't ask me about trash chickens...lots of time spent talking about them. But I'm like my dog when that discussion starts....all I hear is blah, blah, blah, blah 

Yes, as some have already said, if you want to hear from our "experts" in the DNR, including Wildlife Chief Russ Mason (who gave another fantastic presentation), SHOW up. At least until the day when this meeting can be streamed live.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Do you recall what was said about shifting migration patterns?


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## Sampsons_owner (Dec 30, 2005)

Thanks Just Ducky for the bullet points of what was covered. Maybe someone who is into Goose hunting can fill in the blanks on what was covered there. Steve


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

just ducky said:


> Jesus Jenny...how did this go from an invite to attend CWAC, to 2 or 3 pages bashing the old point system?
> 
> Couple things...I was in the peanut gallery Saturday along with several others who haunt this site, and shall remain nameless so that they don't get the **** beaten out of them as well
> 
> ...



Thank you. I was waiting for you to show up with some good knowledge.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

craigrh13 said:


> Thank you. I was waiting for you to show up with some good knowledge.


Yikes! Not sure if that's a compliment, or a sarcastic shot due to my past reputation here  When I attend these meetings, I listen to what interests me, and I tune out a lot of the other stuff (such as goose discussion  ) So those are just the things I heard that caught my attention. There were others there also, including at least a couple from this website who are actually sitting CWAC members, who may be able to chime in on other pertinent info.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Sampsons_owner said:


> Thanks Just Ducky for the bullet points of what was covered. Maybe someone who is into Goose hunting can fill in the blanks on what was covered there. Steve


Guilty as charged  I usually tune out on that


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

DecoySlayer said:


> Do you recall what was said about shifting migration patterns?


Honestly I don't recall discussion regarding that at this particular meeting. Now at past CWAC meetings there has been a lot of discussion about what the biologists believe is happening. And my recollection is that they believe that the migration patterns through the great lakes (Michigan in particular) have changed drastically in the last 30-40 years, with many birds now following a more easterly pattern to the east coast, or a more westerly pattern to the prairie pothole region. Changes in the great lakes such as zebra mussels and water clarity has been one theory. Another I recall is that the volume of water in the prairie pothole region changed drastically beginning in about 1995, with massive flooding from the Dakota's on down, and this huge amount of "new" water drew a lot more birds west that used to come down through Michigan.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

just ducky said:


> Yikes! Not sure if that's a compliment, or a sarcastic shot due to my past reputation here  When I attendA these meetings, I listen to what interests me, and I tune out a lot of the other stuff (such as goose discussion  ) So those are just the things I heard that caught my attention. There were others there also, including at least a couple from this website who are actually sitting CWAC members, who may be able to chime in on other pertinent info.


Totally a compliment. I knew you would eventually chime in with some good stuff. I can see where you could think I was being sarcastic. I wasn't though...this time.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

craigrh13 said:


> Totally a compliment. I knew you would eventually chime in with some good stuff. I can see where you could think I was being sarcastic. I wasn't though...this time.


LOL. Good....I think


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

just ducky said:


> Honestly I don't recall discussion regarding that at this particular meeting. Now at past CWAC meetings there has been a lot of discussion about what the biologists believe is happening. And my recollection is that they believe that the migration patterns through the great lakes (Michigan in particular) have changed drastically in the last 30-40 years, with many birds now following a more easterly pattern to the east coast, or a more westerly pattern to the prairie pothole region. Changes in the great lakes such as zebra mussels and water clarity has been one theory. Another I recall is that the volume of water in the prairie pothole region changed drastically beginning in about 1995, with massive flooding from the Dakota's on down, and this huge amount of "new" water drew a lot more birds west that used to come down through Michigan.


Thanks, I am going to get in touch with another person who was there and said it was being discussed. I was talking with him at a DU function last Friday but he got called away before I could learn anything. Hopefully I can get a hold of him next week. I need to send him some boat plans anyway.

It seems to me there have been shifts, and not the first in my lifetime either.


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## duckbuster2 (Aug 14, 2008)

Spartan88 said:


> I started duck hunting in 1977 and we had the point system, and we also had 30 day seasons...
> 
> In 1983 duck season was over by the time of the U of M/OSU football game. On the last day I hunted before that game I went to I shot a black duck, 100 points and I was done for the day...


I don't want to argue but the 1983 season was 45 or 50 days and so was 1977 and I started hunting in 1967.Here is some thing to look at.


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## Fowl Play (Nov 30, 2014)

Thanks Just Ducky, very informative post. Id love to attend but other family commitments kept me from going.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Fowl Play said:


> Thanks Just Ducky, very informative post. Id love to attend but other family commitments kept me from going.


The meetings are informative for those who want to hear what our DNR staff are thinking, and what they report back from the federal flyway meetings. You also get to hear what all of the CWAC reps from around the state are seeing, hearing, and what they would like to see. So it's a good way to keep up with everything waterfowl in Michigan. But like most meetings, they can also be long and boring too.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

smoke said:


> NRC = Natural Resources commission CWAC= Citizens Waterfowl Advisory Committee
> 
> You are appointed or asked by the DNR to become an at large member, or are assigned the position by different orgs.that are represented, i:e, Harsons Island rep. Waterfowl USA rep. etc. I was on for 8 years, some of that time as a board member, a year as Vice chair and a few more years as Chair Person. Good experience, but its Political for sure.


Also

NRC is an appointed position from the governer. Snyder used to have a link on his website to apply for consideration.


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## sswhitelightning1 (Aug 31, 2016)

I heard they were pushing a dollar taxed on to all license sales to get dumpsters at all launches for mergansers and geese. Any further talk on that JD?


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

So I just read an article elsewhere that said this year will be 60 days with 2 blacks and Pintail is going down to 1/day.


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