# Your predictions for the next 10 Years of Bird Hunting in Michigan?



## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

I thought a fun June topic might be what you think the next ten years will look like for Bird Hunting in the state of Michigan? I realize this is somewhat like predicting the weather, but what the hell.

We have really three Major species to hunt, and two minor ones.

Ruffed Grouse: I believe we will see a cycle swing down pretty quick here, if history repeats itself, with that said, I believe our forestry department is doing a better job than ever before in cutting practices that benefit wildlife the last five years. I'm encouraged by the amount of cutting (still not enough, but more than in the past) on Federal Lands in the LP. Just maybe I believe the deep end might get shallower and the Diving board might get higher. I think in 10 years we will have more Ruffed Grouse than we do today.

Pheasants: I think it's pretty bleak, the pheasant recovery is never going to work unless we tap the NRTF and start putting together large blocks of 25-40K acre grass lands by expanding our State Game Areas down state. Then I think they need to go to a draw system for at least the first three weeks of the season on those lands in the fashion they manage waterfowl areas. The increase in food demand will revert more and more land to row crops in simple supply and demand economics. 

Woodcock: Flat, I've been seriously bird hunting and living up north for 10 years now, and I have not seen a fluctuation in WC numbers, they seem very constant, I'm more worried about wintering habitat than I am nesting, brooding, spring, summer and fall covers.

Bobwhite Quail: Are there any true wild birds left? I have not moved a covey of wild MI quail in 5 years. 

Sharptails: I don't have much education on this, maybe Dauber can comment. I hope they continue to grow the area to hunt, and I believe a draw and tag system would be nice to have.

Your thoughts?


----------



## N M Mechanical (Feb 7, 2008)

I look forward to the next ten years of grouse hunting because I believe it will be better then the last ten. Hopefully I have good dogs on the ground and good spots it should be fun the rest of the birds I don't chase so don't know hopefully the sharpies take off I would chase them
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

Fritz, to be honest, I haven't studied the issue as closely as I should, but in large part, I agree with most of what you say.

I might add that I believe that in zone 3, grouse are headed for near extinction due to the lack of cutting in the SGA's.

I also heard something interesting about woodcock: the guys in KY said that they had pretty good nesting numbers down there while large areas of our state had very few according to most of the banders I know. I'm not a bander, but I too noticed that woodcock were down significantly this Spring in the areas that I train and trial in. Does it mean anything with regard to future numbers? Frankly, I have no idea--maybe it's just due to the bizarre Spring we've had.


----------



## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

You think they Wc, went further North? 

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## Mr. Botek (Mar 15, 2011)

I predict that MY next decade of birdhunting, provided my health is good, will be very good. I will have more experience, more money, better trained dogs, discovered more covers and expanded my understanding of the birds. 
Combining all of that should increase my birds killed numbers, even if population numbers decline. 
Besides, I'd rather be optimistic about the future than pessimistic! 

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## N M Mechanical (Feb 7, 2008)

Mr. Botek said:


> I predict that MY next decade of birdhunting, provided my health is good, will be very good. I will have more experience, more money, better trained dogs, discovered more covers and expanded my understanding of the birds.
> Combining all of that should increase my birds killed numbers, even if population numbers decline.
> Besides, I'd rather be optimistic about the future than pessimistic!
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Spot on!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 88luneke (Jan 13, 2009)

Mr. Botek said:


> I predict that MY next decade of birdhunting, provided my health is good, will be very good. I will have more experience, more money, better trained dogs, discovered more covers and expanded my understanding of the birds.
> Combining all of that should increase my birds killed numbers, even if population numbers decline.
> Besides, I'd rather be optimistic about the future than pessimistic!
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


I like it! 

I would hope that if what recurverx was mentioning with the farm bill in another thread that there would be the possibility of the large expansions of grasslands for pheasant numbers.


----------



## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

Steelheadfred said:


> You think they Wc, went further North?
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


That was exactly my thought, but I spoke recently with a historically-successful UP bander who had a very abysmal Spring. That of course, doesn't specifically say where those UP birds went...


----------



## JBooth (Sep 21, 2009)

Ruffies will be fine in zone 1 and 2. I haven't seen anything but increased numbers for a while even in the "bad" years others report. 

Woodies may be moving further north, but that just means they will migrate through later. If it continues to warm up you might even have the chance at a December woodie

Pheasant are increasing slowly but surely (we actually saw one this year) Until people give them a chance with habitat and predator control it won't matter.

Sharpies will be the new draw. They are all over the UP, not just the small area open to hunting. The area should be expanded.

Quail ....... no idea. Never seen one in Michigan.


----------



## RecurveRx (Jun 21, 2004)

ten years? who the hell knows. 

i know this though. this year is shaping up to be one to remember. a nonexistant winter, followed by a made to order spring. barring some hail storm or flood in the next week or so, and we should be home free for what looks to be an amazing hatch.


----------



## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

I agree with Fritz on all but the ruffed grouse, which I think we're having a very good hatch of this year, like we are of the turkeys, geese, and ducks, and the woodcock, which I think are continuing to decline. 

The loons were very late returning to their breeding grounds here, so were my hummingbirds. Despite the warm spring, some folks I've talked to have told me it wasn't such a swell spring further south, instead cold and rainy for their areas, which may have delayed the loons and hummers, as well as a lot of songbirds from coming north early or on time. 

It may also have delayed the woodcock, or even kept a lot of them from coming all the way north, as reports seem to increase every year about birds nesting further south. But that could just be that more people are aware of them now further south than there used to be. I know that banders around here did very little or nothing this year, and of the chicks they found, most were already flying at a time when they usually just start marking nests. 

Overall, I think the woodcock are continuing to decline in numbers, but it may have slowed a bit.


----------



## hehibrits (Mar 10, 2007)

Here is what I see going into my 25th season following bird dogs:

Ruffed Grouse: personal belief is that 2013 will be the peak, with 14-16 pretty lean compared to the highs, yet still good base numbers because of increased cutting. I don't hunt every corner of the northern lower or u.p. but where I do go, cutting is definately going on. Cuts 0-5 years old are frequent if you look. In 2020 at the next peak this new young cover will be able to support good bird numbers. No input on zone 3.

Sharptail Grouse: I think numbers should only go up. The recent fires should help. Maybe somehow chickens could come back.

Woodcock: slowly falling. Hard critter to judge numbers for the layman. You can see huge numbers for a few days and get a false sense of a healthy population or not fly one for two weeks and feel like numbers crashed. Best left to biological bean counters, but from what I understand winter cover is the limiting factor.

Pheasant: a far cry from what it was even 15 years ago, maybe when corn goes back down around $3 some ground might idle and cr33 might help keeping them extinct. The housing collapse has reverted a lot of potential sub divisions into nice blocks of young weeds here and there and I heard several cocks crowing this spring around metro D in such areas.

Quail: to answer the question of any Michigan wild quail left with a question, are there any wild Indiana (or Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Alabama, Tennessee, etc.) quail left? Numbers show a 90% decline in numbers since 1980 across the board minus Texas. There are still a few quail around Michigan, I move some every now and then. Used to shoot quite a few. I don't see it improving in MI in the next decade.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## RecurveRx (Jun 21, 2004)

Great discussion. A lot to be learned from this thread.


----------



## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

hehibrits said:


> Quail: to answer the question of any Michigan wild quail left with a question, are there any wild Indiana (or Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Alabama, Tennessee, etc.) quail left? Numbers show a 90% decline in numbers since 1980 across the board minus Texas. There are still a few quail around Michigan, I move some every now and then. Used to shoot quite a few. I don't see it improving in MI in the next decade.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


I ran a field trial in TN early this Spring and the quail hunters down there were extremely negative on the species, saying that it wasn't worth it to go out anymore and a lot of hunters were selling their dogs. Similar experience in SE KS last year. I guess it helps explain why we've become such a major destination hub for the traditional quail hunters of the South.


----------



## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

I certainly don't think public land grouse hunting will get any worse. I am seeing more Federal land being cut than I can remember and of course the state continues to mow down state lands which is/are still your best bet for quality grouse hunting in Michigan. 
Woodcock are doing well in my opinion. Last season I saw the greatest flight of birds ever in my career in the woods. However I do believe they are adapting their migration patterns with many, many of them not returning to traditional breeding grounds in the upper peninsula.


----------



## Daveldman (Jun 6, 2010)

I know grouse are studied to fluctuate in 10 year cycles, but in the covers I have been hunting for 16-17 years now, I have never seen a real number change. Maybe I need to expand my range. I have always been able to go in and find birds, and up until a couple years ago, that was without a dog. I like the look of this spring, and hopefully a good fall will come out of it. 10 years? Who knows. I do know that there needs to be some more cutting in the areas of federal land that I hunt. Stuff is getting pretty mature. Maybe that will be the downfall.

As for WC. The first 10 years I hunted birds, I only saw one. I was convinced they were a legend. Now, I kick those little buggers up all over the place. I don't know what has changed, but the population seems to be strong. And yes, I will shoot a few each year.


----------



## Mvillecowboy (Mar 1, 2012)

I tell you what, last season I kicked up more grouse than I can remember and I agree with the light winter and spring we have had I can on.y see it getting better for this year.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## gab (Jun 14, 2005)

I believe the increase in cutting will help both the grouse and woodcock numbers. Based on my banding exoeriences this year the grouse appear to be up slightly in the woods I tromp. Woodcock numbers were about the same this spring as they have been in the past few years.


----------



## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

don't know what 10 years will bring, but i believe this - that pheasants are very quick to rebound when the circumstances allow. very tough bird. when the habitat allows it, numbers increase quickly.

and i agree about the synopsis for this year. there must have been a dozen roosters cackling in our area of the section last night. like a chorus going off.

and i don't believe you need 25 - 40 acres of grasslands to make a difference.

5 acres of grass on our farm has made a tremendous difference. someday, it will be 50, and i can only imagine what that will hold. but that day will have to wait for some time longer.


----------



## Merimac (Jan 17, 2006)

Last year in MI, I saw more woodcock than I had in at least 15 years. Same in MN and WI. Last year in MI, WI and MN my grouse numbers were down compared to the year before. 
I hope you guys are right about this year being great.


I don't chase Sharptails in MI, but here in MN and WI the Turkeys are killing the hatch and I wish they would allow us an open season on Turkeys. Our sharptail grouse areas are hurting.


----------



## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

Regarding the grouse population last year and this year...

Last Spring we had plenty of rain and plenty of warmth. That was good for grouse in that it created a rather lush growth of berries and so forth. That food supply carried right on into a very mild Fall and Winter.

This Spring is different. It has been drier and cooler. It makes me wonder how that bodes for the grouse population since I would expect less food to be available. Further, the limited amount of snow that we had, not to mention the late arrival of it, might further be a problem. Without cover and without snow to burrow and hide in it may have been a hard Winter for grouse.

Of course I could be utterly wrong (and I hope so), but I'm a little worried.


----------



## RecurveRx (Jun 21, 2004)

Grouse don't snow roost because they want to. They do it because they have to. The fact that they didn't have to this past winter is a good thing. 


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

RecurveRx said:


> Grouse don't snow roost because they want to. They do it because they have to. The fact that they didn't have to this past winter is a good thing.
> 
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


You're right. In the absence of good cover a snow burrow is a great place to try and hide from things like birds of prey. it's often the only alternative.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

WestCoastHunter said:


> You're right. In the absence of good cover a snow burrow is a great place to try and hide from things like birds of prey. it's often the only alternative.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's not so much to hide as it is to keep warm. Light fluffy snow and cold don't kill grouse. Cold and NO snow kills grouse.


----------



## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

I bet the next 10 years will suck in MI but I am predicting MN and WI will be great!
Lots of cutting in all the areas I hunt so I'm optimistic the next 10 will be better than the last 10. Lots of people on this board should be thanked for all their hard work with RGS to promote the proper forestry management that has been going on the last 5 years.


----------



## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

BIGSP said:


> It's not so much to hide as it is to keep warm. Light fluffy snow and cold don't kill grouse. Cold and NO snow kills grouse.


Looks like the state of Minnesota (as well as other places) agree with both you and I...

"During winter, ruffed grouse spend nearly all of their time in snow burrows to *stay warm* and *avoid predators*."

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/birds/ruffedgrouse.html

However, as I said earlier, I hope I am wrong.


----------



## RecurveRx (Jun 21, 2004)

BIGSP said:


> I bet the next 10 years will suck in MI but I am predicting MN and WI will be great!
> .


yah, it's a shame there are no birds here anymore. damn blight and all... 

now minneconsin, that's the promised land for grouse. i hear there's so many that guys even find them with german dogs.


----------



## Merimac (Jan 17, 2006)

Last year I ran into more grouse hunters than I have ever seen in MN and WI. Its probably due to the Blight in MI.


----------



## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

merimac said:


> last year i ran into more grouse hunters than i have ever seen in mn and wi. Its probably due to the blight in mi.


like.


----------



## Jay Johnson (Jan 10, 2008)

Merimac said:


> Last year I ran into more grouse hunters than I have ever seen in MN and WI. Its probably due to the Blight in MI.


Ben:

I am doing a seminar in August for the Twin Cities Chapter of RGS titled 20 great grouse and woodcock hunting spots within 2 hours of the Twin Cities. 

I apologize in advance for adding anymore folks to your favorite places.

As far as bird hunting in MI. The only thing I can say with confidence is that there will be less upland bird hunters in 10 years than there are now.

Jay


----------



## RecurveRx (Jun 21, 2004)

Jay Johnson said:


> As far as bird hunting in MI. The only thing I can say with confidence is that there will be less upland bird hunters in 10 years than there are now.
> 
> Jay


I think that's a safe bet. 




Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

RecurveRx said:


> I think that's a safe bet.
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Maybe, maybe not. At the rate that game birds are disappearing East of the Mississippi (and some parts West of the Mississippi) I think the Lake States will continue to draw big, and possibly increasing numbers of out-of-staters.


----------



## Merimac (Jan 17, 2006)

Jay Johnson said:


> Ben:
> 
> I am doing a seminar in August for the Twin Cities Chapter of RGS titled 20 great grouse and woodcock hunting spots within 2 hours of the Twin Cities.
> 
> ...


Jay, I am being serious when I ask, are you going to show people our field trial courses? 

Ben


----------



## Rudi's Dad (May 4, 2004)

I would say from M55 North thru the U.P. things should be fine, below that things go downhill due to habitat and hunting pressure.

On a personal note, a hunters age and desire along with dog(s) age and condition play into hunting success.


----------



## 88luneke (Jan 13, 2009)

Jay Johnson said:


> As far as bird hunting in MI. The only thing I can say with confidence is that there will be less upland bird hunters in 10 years than there are now.
> 
> Jay


I can see this happening. Kids my age and younger that do hunt, whether they hunt a lot or occasionally their usual reaction when I tell them I'm going up north to hunt is, "oh cool deer camp". Or when I tell them I'm hunting grouse and woodcock their reaction is, "what's that?".


----------



## Jay Johnson (Jan 10, 2008)

Merimac said:


> Jay, I am being serious when I ask, are you going to show people our field trial courses?
> 
> Ben


Ben:

I plan to help them understand where potential public land grouse cover is on the macro not micro scale.

I also plan to show them where the RGS has completed projects so they can understand and see first hand how their efforts at the local level have resulted in habitat work and hunting opportunities. 

There is a lot of State Forest, Wildlife Management Area, County Tax-Forefit land within 2 hours of the metro so I wouldn't get too worked up about seeing a big influx of hunters.

Furthermore public lands are there for public use and part of my job is to create awareness of such opportunities for hunters including grouse hunters.

They (the chapter) have not gotten back in touch to confirm that they even want to do the seminar so it may not even happen.

I was just bustin' your chops a little with my initial post after seeing you complain about hunter numbers. 

On that note, I hardly saw anyone in the woods this past season and I spent a fair bit of time hunting popular grouse hunting areas.


Take care,

Jay


----------



## dauber (Jan 11, 2010)

Jay Johnson said:


> Ben:
> I plan to help them understand where potential public land grouse cover is on the macro not micro scale.
> 
> I also plan to show them where the RGS has completed projects so they can understand and see first hand how their efforts at the local level have resulted in habitat work and hunting opportunities.
> ...


Good for you Jay! Those are the things we need to do! That's something I've considered doing with our RGS chapter in the future. Hope they get back with you.
Steve


----------



## Merimac (Jan 17, 2006)

So Jay, Was the answer, Yes?


----------



## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

Merimac said:


> So Jay, Was the answer, Yes?


Ben, can you hunt on your FT grounds? If so that's a shame.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## Jay Johnson (Jan 10, 2008)

Merimac said:


> So Jay, Was the answer, Yes?


The answer was and is no. 

To direct them specifically to your clubs trial grounds would be going down to the micro level. 

Is that clear?


----------

