# Your Opinions on Mag/ shell capacity Limits.



## runs with fire (Mar 12, 2009)

What is the point or purpose for the six round total capacity cartridge limit for long guns (not to mention handgun limitations) in Michigan? I honestly don't think it does anything other than complicate the process for hunters and make it more likely to inadvertently break a law. I don't see any ethical or safety problems in states that don't have capacity limits such as Texas. Why shouldn't I be able to just go but a common hunting gun, for example, my ar in .223 and my glock 20; and hunt with the stock magazine (30 round and 15 round respectively). I feel the cartridge limits are useless and outdated from a perspective of "when most hunting guns were bolt action and only held 5 in the magazine". My dad's old 30/30 even held more than 5 in the tube. 
Trying to find a 5 round mag for my ar that actually works and is in stock hasn't happened yet. I've hap a horrible time plugging my 10 round pmag, they aren't exactly meant to be pluggable. 
Are cartridge limits as foolish as they seem to me, or am I just a young crazy ******* who likes to fling lots of lead in the air?


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## Tilden Hunter (Jun 14, 2018)

I sit in my house and tend to agree with you. Then I go to the range and shoot next to a mag dump spray 'n' pray shooter and I rethink it. I'm still not decided.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Outlawing them will make no difference, they are just not that hard to make. Laws that only affect those who normally do nothing wrong will have no good effect and likely cause more negative effects.

In a combat situation I would much prefer to have to face a "spray and pray" than someone who knows how to shoot.


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## johnhunter247 (Mar 12, 2011)

I think it depends on the animal being hunted. For a deer which I presume this is about I would go as far to say imo it should be single shot only. Every time I hear a gun being unloaded during gun season I just shake my head. You just know that nothing ethical is happening and the deer isn’t being respected or held in high regard. Clean ethical shots with a firearm and all you need is one. With the laws that are in place now in regard to load limit aren’t hard to follow. I don’t see any reason or scenario where a guy needs to have 15 or 30 rounds loaded to hunt deer. I do agree with you in the fact that they can lighten up on some laws that seem to be knit picking. I wouldn’t be opposed to this one your asking about. But I don’t see it as a big deal either. When it comes to government and laws nothing surprises me. They can ruin everything they touch and find a way to tax you for it. Lol


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Hey, if I have 3 tags, I will likely need 3 shots! LOL!


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## johnhunter247 (Mar 12, 2011)

DecoySlayer said:


> Hey, if I have 3 tags, I will likely need 3 shots! LOL!


I don’t know how many years I would have to go back to add up shooting 15 rounds at a deer with a firearm. I honestly don’t think I’ve done it in my lifetime. Although I gun hunt most of my deer come from bow hunting. But when I do shoot a deer with a firearm I mostly use my muzzleloader.


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## runs with fire (Mar 12, 2009)

Tilden Hunter said:


> I sit in my house and tend to agree with you. Then I go to the range and shoot next to a mag dump spray 'n' pray shooter and I rethink it. I'm still not decided.


I spend alot of time at state land and on public shooting ranges. I've never witnessed a mag dump in a hunting scenario. Don't we tend to preach education over regulation? I understand that some people are not intetested high capacity magazines anyway, so they usually don't care about round limits. But currently, my dad's old 30/30 isn't a legal hunting gun without modifications. A 5 round mag limit on rifles and shotguns makes my dad's pump and semiauto shotguns and his 30/30 can't be used for hunting period, without modifications. What's up with that?


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## runs with fire (Mar 12, 2009)

johnhunter247 said:


> I don’t know how many years I would have to go back to add up shooting 15 rounds at a deer with a firearm. I honestly don’t think I’ve done it in my lifetime. Although I gun hunt most of my deer come from bow hunting. But when I do shoot a deer with a firearm I mostly use my muzzleloader.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Of course, " high capacity magazines" (for discussion here these are over five rounds) aren't needed for a quick hunt, but when they come standard with so many firearms, and when most tubular magazines hold more than 5, why should we have to modify them? It's just addittional gun control ,IMHO, as most people don't unplug magazines after the hunt is over. It's a pain to deal with either paying a gunsmith to mod your mag, or fiddlesticking around doing it yourself.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

johnhunter247 said:


> I don’t know how many years I would have to go back to add up shooting 15 rounds at a deer with a firearm. I honestly don’t think I’ve done it in my lifetime. Although I gun hunt most of my deer come from bow hunting. But when I do shoot a deer with a firearm I mostly use my muzzleloader.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I would normally need 3 shots to kill 3 deer. I have, on rare occasions, needed more than one shot on a given deer, even with good shot placement.

I have never needed 15


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## runs with fire (Mar 12, 2009)

DecoySlayer said:


> I would normally need 3 shots to kill 3 deer. I have, on rare occasions, needed more than one shot on a given deer, even with good shot placement.
> 
> I have never needed 15


So should we limit it all to no magazine capacity at all? The question isn't how many are needed, it's how many they have to restrict t it to. how many hoops do I have to go through to buy a .223 and shoot squirrels and coyotes? We shouldn't have a state restriction on magazine limits.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

runs with fire said:


> So should we limit it all to no magazine capacity at all? The question isn't how many are needed, it's how many they have to restrict t it to. how many hoops do I have to go through to buy a .223 and shoot squirrels and coyotes? We shouldn't have a state restriction on magazine limits.



We already have a limit, on removable magazines, of 5 rounds, for hunting. We already have a limit of 3 shells for migratory birds.

Are those restrictions of any real value in the real world? Not likely.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

runs with fire said:


> What is the point or purpose for the six round total capacity cartridge limit for long guns (not to mention handgun limitations) in Michigan? I honestly don't think it does anything other than complicate the process for hunters and make it more likely to inadvertently break a law. I don't see any ethical or safety problems in states that don't have capacity limits such as Texas. Why shouldn't I be able to just go but a common hunting gun, for example, my ar in .223 and my glock 20; and hunt with the stock magazine (30 round and 15 round respectively). I feel the cartridge limits are useless and outdated from a perspective of "when most hunting guns were bolt action and only held 5 in the magazine". My dad's old 30/30 even held more than 5 in the tube.
> Trying to find a 5 round mag for my ar that actually works and is in stock hasn't happened yet. I've hap a horrible time plugging my 10 round pmag, they aren't exactly meant to be pluggable.
> Are cartridge limits as foolish as they seem to me, or am I just a young crazy ******* who likes to fling lots of lead in the air?


Yep. You are crazy.

Your Dad's 30/30 was a semi auto tube feed? Never heard of such....And not sure I agree with your stating they (tube feed) must be modded.
Do you have a rule stating a lever action can only hold six rounds? (Assuming Dad's rifle was a lever action.)

The old saying , one shot gettum deer ,two shots maybe , three shots no gettum deer still applies.
If you can't get it done with six rounds in a semi auto it's time to walk away. You will then have insulted both yourself , and the deer.
Get thee to a shooting range and figure out what the problem is.

Magazine and chamber combined in a limit of rounds is the regulation to hunt deer. And waterfowl.
Plugging a mag when no limited cap mag exists is doable.
Otherwise buy a rifle that meets the regulations standard easier.

I like my high cap mags and their hosts, but for deer it is usually non high cap potential rifles with four rounds total. Though one is the average required.
I've left one shotgun plugged for years and the most rounds used on a deer was two. With the second not really needed.


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## TriggerDiscipline (Sep 25, 2017)

One year in SoDak pheasant opener, our group was paired with a Texan yahoo with one of those Saiga AK shotguns. It was not a pleasant experience to say the least. He was a terrible shot and completely disregarded the "rules" of who takes a shot, and when. If he had been limited to even 3 rounds, it may have been different. Anything that restricts the ability of yahoos to practice their yahoolery, is a good thing. There are unfortunately a lot of yahoos in our sports, and they never regulate their own behavior. Idiots will always push the limits of sportsmanship and acceptable behavior.


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## triplelunger (Dec 21, 2009)

You guys are missing his point!
I was in the same boat recently. I wanted to use my
AR for late antlerless this year, but couldn't find a decent 5 round magazine on short notice. I found a cheap one at dunhams, but it didn't even survive the feeding of 5 rounds. crappy piece of plastic **** split in half. I couldn't end up using my AR because my only other option was a 30rd (illegal for hunting)mag. 
The OP isn't saying he wants to pray and spray 30 rounds at a deer, he's asking what's the point of not allowing the use of the 30rd mag. Maybe he only puts two rounds in there. 
I tend to agree with the op's stance. 5 vs 30 rounds doesn't make a whole lot of difference in deer hunting in my opinion.
I would have loved to just be able to use a magazine I already own regardless of how many shots it takes me to kill a deer.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

triplelunger said:


> You guys are missing his point!
> I was in the same boat recently. I wanted to use my
> AR for late antlerless this year, but couldn't find a decent 5 round magazine on short notice. I found a cheap one at dunhams, but it didn't even survive the feeding of 5 rounds. crappy piece of plastic **** split in half. I couldn't end up using my AR because my only other option was a 30rd (illegal for hunting)mag.
> The OP isn't saying he wants to pray and spray 30 rounds at a deer, he's asking what's the point of not allowing the use of the 30rd mag. Maybe he only puts two rounds in there.
> ...


I'd like to hunt at night too.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

The first thing I did, when I bought an AR, just on the off chance I wanted to take it hunting, was buy a good 5 shot magazine. When I got my .450 upper it came with one.


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## runs with fire (Mar 12, 2009)

triplelunger said:


> You guys are missing his point!
> I was in the same boat recently. I wanted to use my
> AR for late antlerless this year, but couldn't find a decent 5 round magazine on short notice. I found a cheap one at dunhams, but it didn't even survive the feeding of 5 rounds. crappy piece of plastic **** split in half. I couldn't end up using my AR because my only other option was a 30rd (illegal for hunting)mag.
> The OP isn't saying he wants to pray and spray 30 rounds at a deer, he's asking what's the point of not allowing the use of the 30rd mag. Maybe he only puts two rounds in there.
> ...


Their philosophy puts them into the classification known as fudd, as in Elmer Fudd. That's when the second amendment only applies to certain people under certain conditions and anything other than grandpas ole' gun is dangerous and unsportsmanlike.


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## runs with fire (Mar 12, 2009)

DecoySlayer said:


> The first thing I did, when I bought an AR, just on the off chance I wanted to take it hunting, was buy a good 5 shot magazine. When I got my .450 upper it came with one.


Try getting one in .223.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

runs with fire said:


> Try getting one in .223.



I have two. Bought them in the same shop, at the same time, I bought my rifle. I was in a shop in North Carolina. I was getting them because I was PLANNING on buying at AR and was just getting a few things as I worked through the process. Ended up buying a rifle there too


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## runs with fire (Mar 12, 2009)

Waif said:


> Yep. You are crazy.
> 
> Your Dad's 30/30 was a semi auto tube feed? Never heard of such....And not sure I agree with your stating they (tube feed) must be modded.
> Do you have a rule stating a lever action can only hold six rounds? (Assuming Dad's rifle was a lever action.)
> ...


I reread the rules and see it only applies to semmiauto guns, which is all I own, get with the times. What's with the limit only apply to semmiauto and not other guns? Got it, semmiauto guns are evil, especially the black ones .


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## runs with fire (Mar 12, 2009)

DecoySlayer said:


> I have two. Bought them in the same shop, at the same time, I bought my rifle. I was in a shop in North Carolina. I was getting them because I was PLANNING on buying at AR and was just getting a few things as I worked through the process. Ended up buying a rifle there too


They can't get em in at cabelas in town. But the point is, I don't agree with restricting firearms. I believe liberty has to be applied evenly and completely applied or it is a false sense of security.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

I don't disagree, but, poor planning is still poor planing. What I can't figure out is why someone would want to carry that much weight? 15 shells weigh 3 times more than 5 and the magazine is heavier too. 

They don't restrict ownership of high cap mags, in Michigan, yet, for things other than hunting. I believe you will see a push for that here now, and that many in here will push right along with that.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

runs with fire said:


> I reread the rules and see it only applies to semmiauto guns, which is all I own, get with the times. What's with the limit only apply to semmiauto and not other guns? Got it, semmiauto guns are evil, especially the black ones .


Hey , at least we're not required to use belt feed watercooled rifles...


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Too heavy


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## OnHoPr (Jul 21, 2013)

runs with fire said:


> I reread the rules and see it only applies to semmiauto guns, which is all I own, get with the times. What's with the limit only apply to semmiauto and not other guns? Got it, semmiauto guns are evil, especially the black ones .


It used to be 6 shots in a repeater, now it is for semi autos. I am not sure when they changed the rule. 94s, 336s, 92s and its likes, along with a number of milsurps like the garand and the Lee Enfield held more than the 6 shots, but I never heard of any enforcement. But, then I knew people the used AK knockoffs, but never really heard 30 rounds going off from one spot on the first two days of season.


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## runs with fire (Mar 12, 2009)

DecoySlayer said:


> I don't disagree, but, poor planning is still poor planing. What I can't figure out is why someone would want to carry that much weight? 15 shells weigh 3 times more than 5 and the magazine is heavier too.
> 
> They don't restrict ownership of high cap mags, in Michigan, yet, for things other than hunting. I believe you will see a push for that here now, and that many in here will push right along with that.


In my glock 20, 15 10mm cartridges balance the gun best. It was designed for 15 rounds.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

runs with fire said:


> In my glock 20, 15 10mm cartridges balance the gun best. It was designed for 15 rounds.



Most people don't hunt deer with a Glock 20. If someone wanted to it would not be all that difficult to construct a plug, that weighed the same as 10 rounds, and limit the mag to 5.


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## runs with fire (Mar 12, 2009)

H


DecoySlayer said:


> Too heavy


Hogwash


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## runs with fire (Mar 12, 2009)

I 


DecoySlayer said:


> Most people don't hunt deer with a Glock 20. If someone wanted to it would not be all that difficult to construct a plug, that weighed the same as 10 rounds, and limit the mag to 5.


I just don't understand, why limit it in the first place?


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## skipper34 (Oct 13, 2005)

Just buy one of the cheap bolt action guns and have at it. Problem solved.


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## johnhunter247 (Mar 12, 2011)

triplelunger said:


> You guys are missing his point!
> I was in the same boat recently. I wanted to use my
> AR for late antlerless this year, but couldn't find a decent 5 round magazine on short notice. I found a cheap one at dunhams, but it didn't even survive the feeding of 5 rounds. crappy piece of plastic **** split in half. I couldn't end up using my AR because my only other option was a 30rd (illegal for hunting)mag.
> The OP isn't saying he wants to pray and spray 30 rounds at a deer, he's asking what's the point of not allowing the use of the 30rd mag. Maybe he only puts two rounds in there.
> ...


Can’t you leave the clip off and just put one round in the chamber? That’s all you need. One shot... If i wanted to use a gun and didn’t have a legal clip I think I would do that. 


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## johnhunter247 (Mar 12, 2011)

runs with fire said:


> Try getting one in .223.


I could probably find a couple dozen websites in less than five minutes to buy them in any caliber you like.


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## Tilden Hunter (Jun 14, 2018)

runs with fire said:


> I spend alot of time at state land and on public shooting ranges. I've never witnessed a mag dump in a hunting scenario. Don't we tend to preach education over regulation? I understand that some people are not intetested high capacity magazines anyway, so they usually don't care about round limits. But currently, my dad's old 30/30 isn't a legal hunting gun without modifications. A 5 round mag limit on rifles and shotguns makes my dad's pump and semiauto shotguns and his 30/30 can't be used for hunting period, without modifications. What's up with that?


The five round mag limit is only for semi-auto. Admittedly the few clowns I see at the range I suspect don't hunt anyway, and I don't think the law is very useful.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

I have found that I shoot much better with fewer rounds loaded.

I have multiple AR magazines metal and plastic that are five round magazine‘s. They didn’t cost much. And I’ve never found a situation in the field where I needed a larger magazine. 

I don’t like the idea of the spray and pray crowd sending 20 high power rounds down range in an uncontrolled fashion. Like when they are overcome by buck fever.

I’m sure the laws were written to cover this lowest common denominator eventuality.


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

Seriously what difference does it make


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

OnHoPr said:


> It used to be 6 shots in a repeater, now it is for semi autos. I am not sure when they changed the rule. 94s, 336s, 92s and its likes, along with a number of milsurps like the garand and the Lee Enfield held more than the 6 shots, but I never heard of any enforcement. But, then I knew people the used AK knockoffs, but never really heard 30 rounds going off from one spot on the first two days of season.


The state must have changed the rule a long time ago. For a centerfire rifle, it was 6 shots total for a semi-auto only in the 1980s.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

johnhunter247 said:


> Can’t you leave the clip off and just put one round in the chamber? That’s all you need. One shot... If i wanted to use a gun and didn’t have a legal clip I think I would do that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


On most semiautos, dropping a round in the chamber and closing the bolt over it is a great way to screw up the extractor. The round comes up behind the extractor as the round is stripped off the mag. closing the bolt over the round is not how they were designed to operate.


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## johnhunter247 (Mar 12, 2011)

ESOX said:


> On most semiautos, dropping a round in the chamber and closing the bolt over it is a great way to screw up the extractor. The round comes up behind the extractor as the round is stripped off the mag. closing the bolt over the round is not how they were designed to operate.


Can’t tell you how many times I’ve done it at the range in my life. Not once have I ever had an issue. On many different guns. I do it on my .223 also made by rock river arms. No different then using the last round in the chamber from a full magazine. 


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## Jumpshootin' (Jul 6, 2000)

GIDEON said:


> Seriously what difference does it make


None what so ever, unless he's just trolling to stir the pot.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

Jumpshootin' said:


> None what so ever, unless he's just trolling to stir the pot.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-S903VL using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Are you somehow the final arbiter of what matters and what doesn’t when it comes to the realm of firearms law?

I’ve hunted all over the world and every country and every state has its own views as to what it considers appropriate magazine and calibre for sporting purposes.

And I’ve been in the field, where people decided to magazine dump at running coyotes. 20 to 30 rounds from illegally installed magazines, without any concern for whether or not there were other people in the woods nearby.

I typically don’t hear more than five, presumably errant, shots in rapid succession during Whitetail season.

And of course, sitting in the marsh I hear 3 shot bursts commonly. Which are also legislated.

There are real public concerns embodied within the magazine capacity law.


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

What would be the difference if a person got caught with a large capacity mag or if a guy got caught with more than five rounds in his large capacity mag?


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## runs with fire (Mar 12, 2009)

Gamekeeper said:


> Aww, you’ve seen through my ruse. Gee, I just don’t know what to say.
> 
> Wait, I do.
> 
> ...


If a 16 year old kid can be trusted with a car and a full tank if gas in public, and no one wants to take that away, why then can't the general person be trusted with a full rifle. Would you restrict us to 5 rounds in our homes, or at a shooting ranges too? If it really is too dangerous in the woods, it would be too dangerous annywhere.


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## runs with fire (Mar 12, 2009)

brushbuster said:


> What would be the difference if a person got caught with a large capacity mag or if a guy got caught with more than five rounds in his large capacity mag?


The big magazine scares people, and do the guns that generally come with them. That's is all it's about


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

runs with fire said:


> These laws came in response to unrealistic fears mostly by the non firearm crowd and by the government who doesn't believe in private rights such as the right to own and use modern firearms.


You only believe that because somebody that you get a magazine from told you so, there’s not a speck of truth in any of that.

Do some research. look to see where the laws came from, look to see who the sponsoring legislators were, look to see what year they were put in place, and then get back to me.


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

They could solve the issue so everyone could use their weapon of choice by just limiting the amount of rounds in a gun at one time, instead of mag capacity.


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## runs with fire (Mar 12, 2009)

The 


Gamekeeper said:


> You only believe that because somebody that you get a magazine from told you so, there’s not a speck of truth in any of that.
> 
> Do some research. look to see where the laws came from, look to see who the sponsoring legislators were, look to see what year they were put in place, and then get back to me.


The patriotism is weak with this one.


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

brushbuster said:


> I agree, I would love to hunt deer with my 10 mm autoloader. Just because I can shoot 15rounds doesn' mean I am going to. Stupid law.


Not trying to be a smartass, just trying to help. For the benefit of anyone reading this thread, the 5+1 limit doesn't apply to semi-auto pistols. It's 8+1 in the limited firearms zone and unlimited elsewhere. Please reference pages 18-22 in the hunting guide for more details since there are other limits in the limited firearm zone.


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## runs with fire (Mar 12, 2009)

brookie1 said:


> Not trying to be a smartass, just trying to help. For the benefit of anyone reading this thread, the 5+1 limit doesn't apply to semi-auto pistols. It's 8+1 in the limited firearms zone and unlimited elsewhere. Please reference pages 18-22 in the hunting guide for more details since there are other limits in the limited firearm zone.


Yup, it's Witten to allow most 1911's. But. The 1911 is over a hundred years old ,right? Shouldn't it be rewritten to allow modern hunting handguns? Like my 10mmAUTO, 15 round Glock20? Times change. If hunting doesn't change with times, hunting is lost with time.


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

brookie1 said:


> Not trying to be a smartass, just trying to help. For the benefit of anyone reading this thread, the 5+1 limit doesn't apply to semi-auto pistols. It's 8+1 in the limited firearms zone and unlimited elsewhere. Please reference pages 18-22 in the hunting guide for more details since there are other limits in the limited firearm zone.


Thank you didn't know that, so fifteen rounds are ok in a semi auto pistol in zone 2?


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

brushbuster said:


> Thank you didn't know that, so fifteen rounds are ok in a semi auto in zone 2?


Yes, no limit on pistols.


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## runs with fire (Mar 12, 2009)

Doesn't make any sense does it? A pistol caliber carbine is still limited though


brookie1 said:


> Yes, no limit.


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

brookie1 said:


> Depends where in zone 2. Rifle zone is no limit.


Its unfortunate the slp guys aren't offered the same privilege.


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

brushbuster said:


> Thank you didn't know that, so fifteen rounds are ok in a semi auto pistol in zone 2?


Ah, amended again. All of zone 2 is yes. It's the rifle zone that partially overlaps with zone 3. Everyone just read the guide, it's all there:

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/hunting_and_trapping_digest_461177_7.pdf


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

something to take up at an nrc meeting, and submit a proposal.


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

brushbuster said:


> something to take up at an nrc meeting, and submit a proposal.


They could amend it since it's in the Wildlife Conservation Order.


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## runs with fire (Mar 12, 2009)

brushbuster said:


> Its unfortunate the slp guys aren't offered the same privilege.[/QUOE


Makes no sense


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## mattawanhunter (Oct 30, 2011)

The 1st Rule in Revolver safety is to load 5 shells and leave the one behind the hammer EMPTY,that is the way I carry mine and if I need to shoot, with my revolvers being double action, I can just pull the trigger or cock and fire. 

That way when I'm walking around, I cant accidentally discharge the Gun which is another reason I like revolvers so much!




brushbuster said:


> Here's a question, how do handgun hunters with 6 cylinder revolvers get away with legally being able to hunt with a handgun if there is a five round capacity limit?


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## junkman (Jan 14, 2010)

Most of my firearms only hold one round at a time.And the ones that hold more than one round I normally only put one in at a time.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

runs with fire said:


> The difference in weight is not something I could ever notice. Cartridges don't weigh that much.


One person posted their handgun would be unbalanced with a different mag.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

runs with fire said:


> I hate cheap, lightweight rifles. Can't hold em steady enough.


Buy one of these then! LOL! Just kidding, wish I could afford one.

https://bearcreekballistics.com/product/custom-450-bushmaster/


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