# I just don't get it....



## bmoffit (Dec 3, 2007)

I debated on posting this for a while but man i cant figure out why some people do the things they do..

My wife is new to hunting and this is her second season. We are strictly bow hunters. As all of us were when we started we made several rookie mistakes over the years and we learn from them..i.e. controlling nerves, misjudging distances, hitting unseen limbs or branches. Well she experienced all of these in the first few weeks of the season. Although they are hard lessons to learn, she didn't become discouraged and stayed positive. On the evening of the 15th she was rewarded for her persistence. She made a great shot on a nice 6 point. This deer had some resilience and we tracked it about 150 yards to a neighboring property. The owner of this track of land doesn't hunt but does have hunters out there... and he has always been an absolute grump to deal with in the past. So.... We do the right thing. Back out and i call him to try to obtain permission to recover her deer.. the call was short...He said to never ever come onto his property and he hung up. Why??? What does he gain by this? I've ran several scenarios through my brain and i just can't fathom what the upside is to that way of thinking. So my wife learned a new lesson that not everyone is a sportsman and even though this lesson wasn't in her control as the other lessons were, she hasn't been back in a tree since...

I mean i get the fact that it's his land and he can do with it as he pleases... i certainly wouldn't want some one trespassing on the tracks of land that i hunt, but to recover a dead deer?? I just don't get it.


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## mbrewer (Aug 16, 2014)

bmoffit said:


> I debated on posting this for a while but man i cant figure out why some people do the things they do..
> 
> My wife is new to hunting and this is her second season. We are strictly bow hunters. As all of us were when we started we made several rookie mistakes over the years and we learn from them..i.e. controlling nerves, misjudging distances, hitting unseen limbs or branches. Well she experienced all of these in the first few weeks of the season. Although they are hard lessons to learn, she didn't become discouraged and stayed positive. On the evening of the 15th she was rewarded for her persistence. She made a great shot on a nice 6 point. This deer had some resilience and we tracked it about 150 yards to a neighboring property. The owner of this track of land doesn't hunt but does have hunters out there... and he has always been an absolute grump to deal with in the past. So.... We do the right thing. Back out and i call him to try to obtain permission to recover her deer.. the call was short...He said to never ever come onto his property and he hung up. Why??? What does he gain by this? I've ran several scenarios through my brain and i just can't fathom what the upside is to that way of thinking. So my wife learned a new lesson that not everyone is a sportsman and even though this lesson wasn't in her control as the other lessons were, she hasn't been back in a tree since...
> 
> I mean i get the fact that it's his land and he can do with it as he pleases... i certainly wouldn't want some one trespassing on the tracks of land that i hunt, but to recover a dead deer?? I just don't get it.


That's unfortunate. Not much fazes me anymore but the apparently unnecessary lack of respect and incivility your referencing is a bitter pill to swallow. I know it may be a cold comfort but I'm sure your wife will find a place to park the frustration and move on in spite of the circumstances.

Good luck.


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## Jdhunttrapfish (Jan 14, 2016)

That sucks, I would let anyone on my property to track a deer, heck I would even help them track, we spend a lot of time as hunters trying to get the animals and when we do, this happens? It's just not right, what harm will it do anyways?


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## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

I feel bad for your wife...This just proves there is a DB born every minute!....This guy must of had a bad experience with another neighbor and lumping you guys all into one...Your odds may have been better with a knock on his door with your wife in tow...It's a little harder to be snotty when someone is face to face..


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## Whitetail_hunter (Mar 14, 2012)

How do you know she made a great shot without recovering the deer? Anyways thats sucks your neighbor is an ass like that. Honestly I would have just risked getting ticketed for trespassing before I let a deer rot. If it already went 150 yards and the shot was good the deer couldn't be much farther.


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## Walt Donaldson (Feb 23, 2015)

bmoffit said:


> I debated on posting this for a while but man i cant figure out why some people do the things they do..
> 
> My wife is new to hunting and this is her second season. We are strictly bow hunters. As all of us were when we started we made several rookie mistakes over the years and we learn from them..i.e. controlling nerves, misjudging distances, hitting unseen limbs or branches. Well she experienced all of these in the first few weeks of the season. Although they are hard lessons to learn, she didn't become discouraged and stayed positive. On the evening of the 15th she was rewarded for her persistence. She made a great shot on a nice 6 point. This deer had some resilience and we tracked it about 150 yards to a neighboring property. The owner of this track of land doesn't hunt but does have hunters out there... and he has always been an absolute grump to deal with in the past. So.... We do the right thing. Back out and i call him to try to obtain permission to recover her deer.. the call was short...He said to never ever come onto his property and he hung up. Why??? What does he gain by this? I've ran several scenarios through my brain and i just can't fathom what the upside is to that way of thinking. So my wife learned a new lesson that not everyone is a sportsman and even though this lesson wasn't in her control as the other lessons were, she hasn't been back in a tree since...
> 
> I mean i get the fact that it's his land and he can do with it as he pleases... i certainly wouldn't want some one trespassing on the tracks of land that i hunt, but to recover a dead deer?? I just don't get it.


People get goofy about deer/property, especially when bucks are involved. The jealousy some people display over bucks can be startling. I can assure you, you're not the only one this has happened to, and it is very unfortunate. One would think that at some point, a deer shot on his property will make it's way onto your property........what happens then? I think I would pay a visit to the gentleman, introduce yourselves and see if you can come to an understanding in person. Sometimes people are tough talkers on the phone, but may soften a little when face to face. Outside of that, there's not much you can do. I would tell you what I would do if he still refused to let you on to track a deer, but that might not be considered good advice. #waltwouldwander


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## Corey K (Dec 11, 2009)

Walt Donaldson said:


> #waltwouldwander


My thoughts as well, the old grouch has to sleep.#askforforgivenesslater


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## deepwoods (Nov 18, 2002)

You never know why someone acts the way they do. It very well could of been his dealings with someone else that made him this way. My suggestion is if you see him remain cordial and polite and maybe, just maybe, over time he will change his views. Your not out anything. Sorry to hear about your wife's deer going unrecovered.


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## bmoffit (Dec 3, 2007)

Whitetail_hunter said:


> How do you know she made a great shot without recovering the deer? Anyways thats sucks your neighbor is an ass like that. Honestly I would have just risked getting ticketed for trespassing before I let a deer rot. If it already went 150 yards and the shot was good the deer couldn't be much farther.


It was a great shot. I was in the tree with her. I was actually quite surprised we didn't see it drop


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

Walt Donaldson said:


> #waltwouldwander


WALTER!!!!


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## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

Whitetail_hunter said:


> How do you know she made a great shot without recovering the deer? Anyways thats sucks your neighbor is an ass like that. Honestly I would have just risked getting ticketed for trespassing before I let a deer rot. If it already went 150 yards and the shot was good the deer couldn't be much farther.


Yeah that deer would have been hanging one way or the other....


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Your family shares a bit of the blame on this by not making arrangements and friendship with your neighbor. I'll bet there has been plenty of opportunity in the previous 365 days to gain this landowners friendship and trust. 

I am truly sorry for what happened, it sucks. None of us will ever know what prompted his actions that day but it's up to you to work things out before it happens again and it will with archery equipment.


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## bucknasty11208 (Jan 21, 2009)

Jdhunttrapfish said:


> That sucks, I would let anyone on my property to track a deer, heck I would even help them track, we spend a lot of time as hunters trying to get the animals and when we do, this happens? It's just not right, what harm will it do anyways?


Im the exact same way. I dont own property but would be more than accomodating to anyone who had the decency to call and ask and like you I would help find it. 
As a matter of fact when we got to bow camp this year we had just strted setting up camp and met a guy who had just come out of the woods. He told us he just shot a nice 8pt but didnt m ma ke a gret shot. Since I know that area very well and my buddy Chad is an awesome tracker we told him wed go help him find it. I did this knowing I only had a week to hunt (live in south carolina) but was willing to sacrifice an evening of hunting to help a fellow hunter. Unfortunately we did not find the deer (non fatal hit I believe) bu it I know the guy appreciated the help.

To the OP, I know its discouraging for your wife but tell her not to give up. There are lot more true and honest sportman out there than thee are crotchbags like your neighbor.


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## Corey K (Dec 11, 2009)

Luv2hunteup said:


> Your family shares a bit of the blame on this by not making arrangements and friendship with your neighbor. I'll bet there has been plenty of opportunity in the previous 365 days to gain this landowners friendship and trust.



I'll call BS on that...It's common courtesy and it shouldn't be a big deal. I haven't ever met the people I've held the door open for at the gas station before.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

bmoffit said:


> It was a great shot. I was in the tree with her. I was actually quite surprised we didn't see it drop


How long did you wait before tracking ? Did the deer lay down in those 150 yds. ? As an experienced bow hunter you have probably seen a few bow kills where the arrow has not ended up where you expected because it was deflected as it hit a rib or shoulder blade. 
Perhaps you got 1 lung and not 2 or some other scenario. 
I usually sleep well, but there are times when I wake up in the middle of the night and take a walk.

L & O


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## Walt Donaldson (Feb 23, 2015)

Luv2hunteup said:


> Your family shares a bit of the blame on this by not making arrangements and friendship with your neighbor. I'll bet there has been plenty of opportunity in the previous 365 days to gain this landowners friendship and trust.
> 
> I am truly sorry for what happened, it sucks. None of us will ever know what prompted his actions that day but it's up to you to work things out before it happens again and it will with archery equipment.


If he called to get permission, how does he share in the blame?! Not all neighbors know each other, or are friendly on top of it, this isn't 1960. He did the right thing, stopped at the property line and called to obtain permission, period.


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## Walleyze247 (Mar 20, 2009)

Would it be possible to reach out to the hunters on his property? You might get lucky and they could be more like minded, especially if they were ever in need to track one on your property. Best of luck and have a Happy Thanksgiving.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Corey K said:


> I'll call BS on that...It's common courtesy and it shouldn't be a big deal. I haven't ever met the people I've held the door open for at the gas station before.


Man I agree with you 100%. I especially feel it is common courtesy because the OP did the respectful thing and asked permission to begin with. 

I get that some people have had bad experiences with trespassers tracking deer. I have a good friend with a farm that has specific requirements due to the nature of the crops he farms. There are places off limits for travel etc..... 

if someone calls and asks permission that should give the landowner the chance to go over any special rules like foot travel only, no quads or trucks etc.. It should also give the landowner a sense that they are responsible in their actions. If they did do something wrong you also know exactly who you are dealing with to fix the issue.

If someone calls me I will always give permission.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Walt Donaldson said:


> If he called to get permission, how does he share in the blame?! Not all neighbors know each other, or are friendly on top of it, this isn't 1960. He did the right thing, stopped at the property line and called to obtain permission, period.


I feel sorry for people who are either too lazy or too self absorbed to not get to know and help their neighbors before they need help themselves. The OP absolutely did the right thing but was told no. He lived with but didn't like it. Now you have dirt bags suggesting they would trespass to recover the deer. Who's worse?


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

Always respect one's property rights. Even if they are an ars.


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## Whitetail_hunter (Mar 14, 2012)

Luv2hunteup said:


> I feel sorry for people who are either too lazy or too self absorbed to not get to know and help their neighbors before they need help themselves. The OP absolutely did the right thing but was told no. He lived with but didn't like it. Now you have dirt bags suggesting they would trespass to recover the deer. Who's worse?


I see a big difference between hunting someones property and recovering a downed deer, guess im a dirtbag.

#lookingformydog :lol:


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## Corey K (Dec 11, 2009)

Things like this really disappoint me about Michigan.

One year I was trapping coyotes in Tennessee and it had rained for a couple days, the lanes were too sloppy to drive on with my truck. The farmer seen me walking and demanded that I use his brand new 4x4 front bucket tractor to check my sets...lol

This year in Nebraska a local that was hunting the same section as us helped us drag my buddies buck out of the woods that morning. Then he hooked us up with a walk in cooler nearby. He was thrilled for my buddy, he just sent us some pics of 2 giants him and his cousin killed last week. And the guy with the walk in cooler is getting a delivery of Walleye/Salmon next November.

I had a guy in Ohio demand that we follow him out Ice fishing because he did good the day before, we did and it was the best morning of the year for us with big fish.

I had a DNR officer in Kansas thank us for coming there bringing some extra money to a small town.

How come I've spent a couple months of my life out of state and have had great experiences in that short time, and 30 some years in this state and all I meet are greedy selfish arrogant pricks?


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## bmoffit (Dec 3, 2007)

Luv2hunteup said:


> I feel sorry for people who are either too lazy or too self absorbed to not get to know and help their neighbors before they need help themselves. The OP absolutely did the right thing but was told no. He lived with but didn't like it. Now you have dirt bags suggesting they would trespass to recover the deer.
> 
> I've hunted property that borders this guys land for 13 years. The first season a deer shot from my property went on his. When we went to the door to ask he said absolutely not. His soon to be ex wife trumped him and said "no problem. Go get your deer". We did. She is now gone and he still is the same now as he was back then
> 
> ...


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## Walt Donaldson (Feb 23, 2015)

Luv2hunteup said:


> I feel sorry for people who are either too lazy or too self absorbed to not get to know and help their neighbors before they need help themselves. The OP absolutely did the right thing but was told no. He lived with but didn't like it. Now you have dirt bags suggesting they would trespass to recover the deer. Who's worse?


Maybe the neighbor is the one who is self absorbed and lazy? You're making assumptions about people which have little or no bearing on the situation. If you're knowingly preventing someone from recovering their animal, after they've asked your permission, you are the dirt bag. Now, if you want to recover the animal and take it to them, versus them accessing your property, that's one thing, but to flat out deny access, and let the animal go to waste is despicable behavior. If this is the type of person he's dealing with, whey the HECK would he want to 'help' or 'get to know' this gentleman?


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

I have been on a few nature walks in my lifetime. One deer I followed for well over a mile that I knew I had a good hit on. I never knew that a deer could bleed so much. When I have hunted private land I know ahead of time where I can and can't go. I leave a little room when I pick my spot so that a deer can run off and die on the property that I am hunting on. Sometimes this is not always the case but due to working things out in advance I was able to retrieve a couple of deer without having to ask the neighbor. I would take advantage of the off season and try to get access to cross the guys property. I gave a guy two ten pound steelhead and got access to his property for deer hunting. He even let me hunt out of his blind. An hour after I got there I filled two tags. Buy the guy a Jack Daniels or whatever he likes and make amends. I kind of say the blame here is 50/50 you should have sucked up to the guy pre season.


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## motdean (Oct 23, 2011)

Luv2hunteup said:


> I feel sorry for people who are either too lazy or too self absorbed to not get to know and help their neighbors before they need help themselves. The OP absolutely did the right thing but was told no. He lived with but didn't like it. Now you have dirt bags suggesting they would trespass to recover the deer. Who's worse?


Luv2.....I see now why he hesitated posting all of this online. 

Most of you don't know, and he will probably get pissed at me for mentioning, but on the properties that the OP has permission to hunt on, he picks every last bit of garbage, including abandoned tires and all sorts of other crap, from the land....He doesn't go pounding on the landowner's door to show him what a good steward of the land that he is, he just does it quietly.

I won't go so far as to call the guy a dirt bag, but why would you not at least hear a guy out? *Slamming the phone on him is beyond disrespectful.* It is one of the major issues in this country....people become apathetic to their neighbors. Why do you think there is such a great divide in politics in this country?

While he doesn't owe him a reason for not allowing him on the property, providing him would have been a really nice thing to do.

The other point that I will make.....So what happens when they shoot deer after deer that goes on this guy's property and dies? Talk about a lost society....sheesh!!


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Corey K said:


> Things like this really disappoint me about Michigan.
> 
> One year I was trapping coyotes in Tennessee and it had rained for a couple days, the lanes were too sloppy to drive on with my truck. The farmer seen me walking and demanded that I use his brand new 4x4 front bucket tractor to check my sets...lol
> 
> ...


Great read, but not all of the people in Michigan are like that. Although I do believe it is getting worse, and the let em go, let em grow thing is going to exacerbate the issue. Turning deer hunting into a big pissing match.


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## Nice Shot 1982 (Aug 31, 2013)

I haven't read all the responses in their entirety, but perhaps a call to a local DNR officer would have been in order? Perhaps they could've placed a call that could sway this landowner into more of an understanding mindset? Just a thought. 

Nonetheless, a bad/sad situation and I hope nothing but the best for the hunter moving forward. You'll be rewarded at some point; hopefully very soon.


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## motdean (Oct 23, 2011)

Walt Donaldson said:


> Maybe the neighbor is the one who is self absorbed and lazy? You're making assumptions about people which have little or no bearing on the situation. If you're knowingly preventing someone from recovering their animal, after they've asked your permission, you are the dirt bag. * Now, if you want to recover the animal and take it to them, versus them accessing your property, that's one thing*, but to flat out deny access, and let the animal go to waste is despicable behavior. If this is the type of person he's dealing with, whey the HECK would he want to 'help' or 'get to know' this gentleman?


Walt, that right there is an excellent post!


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## Grizzly Adams (Oct 6, 2003)

I would have never asked & went & got it after dark.


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## hunterrep (Aug 10, 2005)

swampbuck said:


> Great read, but not all of the people in Michigan are like that. Although I do believe it is getting worse, and the let em go, let em grow thing is going to exacerbate the issue. Turning deer hunting into a big pissing match.


I agree, there are still more good people out there than bad.
But Swampy, if you were a big buck, you would be so easy to shoot because of your predictability. You just couldn't help yourself blaming the let em go crowd on the demise of deer hunting. Do you think his dirt bag neighbor is a let em grow kind of guy and that is why he denied access?


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## Whitetail Freak (Nov 10, 2008)

It wouldn't be because of the hounds men bear hunting would it that you had problems with?


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## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

Luv2hunteup said:


> Your family shares a bit of the blame on this by not making arrangements and friendship with your neighbor. I'll bet there has been plenty of opportunity in the previous 365 days to gain this landowners friendship and trust.
> 
> I am truly sorry for what happened, it sucks. None of us will ever know what prompted his actions that day but it's up to you to work things out before it happens again and it will with archery equipment.





Luv2hunteup said:


> I feel sorry for people who are either too lazy or too self absorbed to not get to know and help their neighbors before they need help themselves. The OP absolutely did the right thing but was told no. He lived with but didn't like it. Now you have dirt bags suggesting they would trespass to recover the deer. Who's worse?


Luv2 you are naive in ignoring the fact that some people are just born ass#%&$....This neighbor has all the ingredients of a grade A....I know many in the area where I own land and their attitudes towards non homeowners there are even worse...These folks are alive and well...The fact that the OP did everything right proves the point....In the recovery of an animal, I will be a trespassing fool before I'm an irresponsible sportsman and let an animal I so love, go to waste...Color me guilty every time..


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## Whitetail Freak (Nov 10, 2008)

For all you that say of course u would let them track, what about the neighbor that trespassed on your posted land and seen your brand new 250$ bushnell camera and stole it? Or the other neighbor that put a stand on your property and used a chainsaw to cut shooting lanes to your unhunted food plot? When confronted and told them to get their stand off your property they move it 5' off the line, track anytime right?


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## ratherboutside (Mar 19, 2010)

Whitetail Freak said:


> For all you that say of course u would let them track, what about the neighbor that trespassed on your posted land and seen your brand new 250$ bushnell camera and stole it? Or the other neighbor that put a stand on your property and used a chainsaw to cut shooting lanes to your unhunted food plot? When confronted and told them to get their stand off your property they move it 5' off the line, track anytime right?


I don't think that guy asks permission. He just goes.


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## Whitetail_hunter (Mar 14, 2012)

Whitetail Freak said:


> For all you that say of course u would let them track, what about the neighbor that trespassed on your posted land and seen your brand new 250$ bushnell camera and stole it? Or the other neighbor that put a stand on your property and used a chainsaw to cut shooting lanes to your unhunted food plot? When confronted and told them to get their stand off your property they move it 5' off the line, track anytime right?


Common sense says the guy that asks to track probably isnt the guy who already trespasses and steals I doubt someone like that would ever attempt to contact you.


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## Whitetail Freak (Nov 10, 2008)

Whitetail_hunter said:


> Common sense says the guy that asks to track probably isnt the guy who already trespasses and steals I doubt someone like that would ever attempt to contact you.


Your probably correct as they haven't asked to track since, been a few years. If you seen him shoot it and see the deer die and here comes the neighbor into your land, you going to be that guy? I'm still undecided what I will do as I haven't been put into that position yet. If someone is denying you access it's usually because of a reason, common sense.


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

I have had just one neighbor call be before season and want to set up a protocol for tracking and retrieving deer. I told him I was not interested in setting rules or being called before tracking. If he hit a deer I expected him to come and get it and to call only if he needed help. He was kind of dumbfounded by this course but accepted it. I went and sought out a neighbor last year when I found a dead deer that had left a trail from their place that was quite obvious to me. I told him I was concerned that he might of hesitated or not tracked beyond the property line. He said they thought it was a miss and had not recognized the trail.
This over possessiveness kind of crap is why we hesitate to track with the dog for other people anymore. We have had neighbors grab a tractor out of the barn to get a deer that crossed the creek and ended up on our side. We have found deer and taken to neighbors that shot them.


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## MossyHorns (Apr 14, 2011)

If this happens again and the property is not properly posted, just go get it. The DNR won't even come out if the property is not properly posted. A friend of mine got a call that a guy was hunting his property. He ran home and found the car parked and texted a pic of the license plate to the DNR officer. Then the DNR officer asked him if his property was properly posted, which it was not. The DNR officer then told him that there was nothing that he could do about the trespasser.


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## d_rek (Nov 6, 2013)

We all have that one neighbor...

When I was younger their mailbox might mysteriously disappear in the middle of the night, or some kind of crazy critter might have gotten into all of their trash bags on trash day and spewn it across their lawn and driveway... not sure how those things would have ever happened. It's a great mystery, great indeed. 

Back then, of course, I was as close to an angel on earth since Saint Peter. Yup. You could practically reach up and grab the halo that was floating around my dome. Those were the days...


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## rz6x59 (Nov 9, 2008)

dc3shcmanke said:


> This is very simple. Your neighbor is an A$$. Next time wait for the jerk to go to bed, midnight or latter sneak over there wearing face mask & tiny flashlight. The mask is incase you get caught on a trail camera, watch for a red flash. If the red flash goes off on you STEAL the sd card, yes i said STEAL the sd card. Find deer & get out of dodge. Good luck


Don't do the crime if you can't afford the dime. I have read several people here say just trespass to go get it or if its not posted it's not tresspassing. The DNR isn't going to give anyone a tresspassing ticket. You are going to get a poaching ticket for 500 to 750 dollars a point and 2000 dollar or more in fines. The DNR wouldn't waste their time with zero revenue tresspassing offense. Proceed at your own risk.


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## dc3shcmanke (Aug 21, 2015)

rz6x59 said:


> Don't do the crime if you can't afford the dime. I have read several people here say just trespass to go get it or if its not posted it's not tresspassing. The DNR isn't going to give anyone a tresspassing ticket. You are going to get a poaching ticket for 500 to 750 dollars a point and 2000 dollar or more in fines. The DNR wouldn't waste their time with zero revenue tresspassing offense. Proceed at your own risk.


13 minutes ago i pulled up the driveway with my new side by side utv, i laugh at $2000


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## ART (Jul 7, 2004)

Walt Donaldson said:


> #altwouldwander


Would not expect any different.....
You guys will get the state one way or the other.....


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## ART (Jul 7, 2004)

Walt Donaldson said:


> Maybe the neighbor is the one who is self absorbed and lazy? You're making assumptions about people which have little or no bearing on the situation. If you're knowingly preventing someone from recovering their animal, after they've asked your permission, you are the dirt bag. Now, if you want to recover the animal and take it to them, versus them accessing your property, that's one thing, but to flat out deny access, and let the animal go to waste is despicable behavior. If this is the type of person he's dealing with, whey the HECK would he want to 'help' or 'get to know' this gentleman?


Yep....folks like you are something else......i have to kick people like you off the property frequently....


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## ART (Jul 7, 2004)

Lumberman said:


> Trespassing is illegal and so is not attempting to recover an animal.


For the record, I would accompany someone to their deer....but you have to respect the property owner...no matter what........it may be illegal to not try to recover your animal...but I think the legal requirement ends when the property owner says no...


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## trapper ryan (Jan 24, 2013)

I just don't understand how someone could ever be denied the right to go get an animal they shot. I would be more upset that I had to leave it to rot. Luckily where i hunt it's all agreed apon to just go get your animal. No call needed unless you need help dragging it out.


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## Corey K (Dec 11, 2009)

I rest my case, I made earlier....referencing the selfish arrogant pricks in this great state.


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## SAVChippewa04 (Jan 2, 2016)

i would never let someone on my property even to retrieve downed game. In this day and age they trip and fall and sue you - too many liabilities out there sad but true sheister lawyers have done this. On a side note a lady was actually trespassing by cross country skiing on a golf course near where l live, she falls tears ligaments and cartilage in her knee and sues the golf course. Whatever happened to common sense, so it's just the way it is.


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## dc3shcmanke (Aug 21, 2015)

SAVChippewa04 said:


> i would never let someone on my property even to retrieve downed game. In this day and age they trip and fall and sue you - too many liabilities out there sad but true sheister lawyers have done this. On a side note a lady was actually trespassing by cross country skiing on a golf course near where l live, she falls tears ligaments and cartilage in her knee and sues the golf course. Whatever happened to common sense, so it's just the way it is.


Would you retrieve the deer for them? By the way how much did you get from the golf course?


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## PunyTrout (Mar 23, 2007)

Here's a theory that my Dad taught me about getting permission to hunt or fish and it might be applicable here as well.

People naturally like to say, "No." when being asked about giving permission to a stranger. So, politely give them the opportunity to do so. Instead of asking, "Can I track and recover the buck my wife shot this morning? Ask him, "_*Do you mind *_if my wife recovers the buck she shot this morning.?" It gives him the opportunity to use his natural inclination to say no, while giving you permission.

Also, do it in person. No one like being solicited on the phone. He might not of even realized he was speaking with a neighbor.


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## SAVChippewa04 (Jan 2, 2016)

no I would not retrieve the deer for them, really it's their bad luck I wouldn't want anyone on my property except me or my guests, that deer would be coyote good. Again it has to do with liability and even tho someone hunts adjacent to you it is not my responsibility to just allow them on my property because a deer they shot ends up on my property - keep out means keep out. So I know some folks in local rotary who where talking about the lawsuit with the cross country skier, so it ends up being cheaper to settle than to fight in court, pathetic. So shoot animals on your own land.


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## BlackRhino (Feb 21, 2005)

dc3shcmanke said:


> Nope, i speak from experience. This guys wife is upset most likely shed a tear or two & probably doesnt want to hunt anymore fearful a deer may run onto the neighbors property. This sucks, screw that neighbor


If you were to blatantly trespass on my place and steal my SD cards because you got caught on MY cams, you'd get ur azz thoroughly kicked. Then torch ur new side by side rich boy.


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## trainwreck2 (Apr 1, 2013)

I have actually had the neibor get his backhoe and burry a deer I shot that was 20 yards over the property line all the cops and myself could do was watch in disbelief. I feel for you and good luck to you and your wife


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## BlackRhino (Feb 21, 2005)

dc3shcmanke said:


> Would you retrieve the deer for them? By the way how much did you get from the golf course?


Go away, troll.


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## dc3shcmanke (Aug 21, 2015)

BlackRhino said:


> If you were to blatantly trespass on my place and steal my SD cards because you got caught on MY cams, you'd get ur azz thoroughly kicked. Then torch ur new side by side rich boy.


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## BlackRhino (Feb 21, 2005)

ART said:


> Yep....folks like you are something else......i have to kick people like you off the property frequently....


Someone woke up ART...


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## Cmk (Nov 21, 2016)

My question is: would the DNR or sheriff dept assisted in this situation? They hate to see game wasted as much as we do, I'm sure. I have a similar situation with a non-complaint neighbor. Luckily I haven't had to track onto his property so far.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

The one time I had trouble getting permission to recover a deer, I had my friend convince the land owner that being neighborly was the right thing to do.

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/prisoner-royalty-free-image/88622145

L & O


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## Cmk (Nov 21, 2016)

Liver and Onions said:


> The one time I had trouble getting permission to recover a deer, I had my friend convince the land owner that being neighborly was the right thing to do.
> 
> http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/prisoner-royalty-free-image/88622145
> 
> L & O


It's all about communication


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## BlackRhino (Feb 21, 2005)

dc3shcmanke said:


> View attachment 234712


That cute little picture suits you well. You come on here bragging how you would trespass, conceal your identity, then if caught steal. Then after someone calls you out you brag about your new side by side and 2k means nothing to you....how does that picture not match up with your sorry azz?


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

born2fish said:


> I spoke too soon above. Just got off the phone with DNR Law Enforcement Division and this scenario is very common and officers respond to such calls "all the time." It is illegal for a hunter to go onto another person's property to retrieve a deer without permission. However, it the hunter who shot the deer calls the "Report All Poaching" hotline the DNR will send an officer out to investigate. If it is determined that the kill shot was the original shot they will retrieve the deer and "give it to the person who shot it." The person whose land the animal died on has "NO LEGAL CLAIM" to that animal. Additionally, the DNR has full legal authority to go on private property to retrieve state resources if there is probably cause. In this scenario, the blood trail from one property to another is all the probable cause an officer needs to enter the property. Furthermore, if the officer finds that the deer has been tagged by the a joining land owner and that person did not provide the kill shot, they are subject to ticket for tagging a deer that they did not legally take.
> 
> Therefore if a deer you shoot leaves your property and you are confident you provided the kill shot, immediately call the RAP line and involve an officer if permission to retrieve the deer is denied.
> 
> I have a feeling that this will be controversial with some people on this site. Therefore I will not engage in any further discussion on it. If you feel that I am incorrect, I encourage you to call the DNR Law Enforcement Division and ask a DNR officer or unit supervisor directly.


Due to lack of manpower it sometimes takes days for a CO to respond to a legitimate poaching issue. The purpose of the RAP line is not for hunters to use it to have CO's track wounded deer. 

Whoever gave you this information was correct in some of what they communicated to you and was wide of the mark in other respects. It doesn't work exactly as was portrayed to you.


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## Lumberman (Sep 27, 2010)

November Sunrise said:


> Due to lack of manpower it sometimes takes days for a CO to respond to a legitimate poaching issue. The purpose of the RAP line is not for hunters to use it to have CO's track wounded deer.
> 
> Whoever gave you this information was correct in some of what they communicated to you and was wide of the mark in other respects. It doesn't work exactly as was portrayed to you.


Lack of manpower? This is what they should be doing! They seem to have more then enough time to check everyone over and over for licensees or the date in their fire extinguisher. This is probably for another thread though.


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

Lumberman said:


> Lack of manpower? This is what they should be doing! They seem to have more then enough time to check everyone over and over for licensees or the date in their fire extinguisher. This is probably for another thread though.


I couldn't disagree more strongly. Rewarding fence row hunters by tracking their deer is not something they should be doing, nor in actuality is it something they do. The previous mention to this happening all the time bears no resemblance to how a CO actually spends their time.

I've been on three tracking jobs in the past month that took over 4 hours. If those had been on neighboring properties that I can't access the idea that a CO should be out spending most of his day tracking those deer rather than dealing with lawbreakers is pure silliness. 

There are a lot of legitimate pursuits for a CO. Deer tracking isn't one of them.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

brdhntr said:


> dead short already answered the question of a CO retrieving the animal in the law forum. The person born talked to likely is not familiar enough with trespass law to have answered the question correctly.


I was going to reply the same thing that dead shot already answered and explained it else where. However, I do like the twist of having the DNR CO retrieve the deer as state property or a state resource so the property owner can not claim it for himself.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

November Sunrise said:


> ..........
> Whoever gave you this information was correct in some of what they communicated to you and was wide of the mark in other respects. It doesn't work exactly as was portrayed to you.


Are you sure ? Born2 said he had just gotten off the phone with the DNR Law Division. The 1 time I called the Law Division I got to talk with the top dog. I'm pretty sure anyone giving out opinions on the Law is not the secretary. So, we got two quite different answers. One from a CO and the other from the DNR in Lansing.
Did you call Lansing and talk with the Chief of the Law Division ? At this point, I'm only taking the word of the Chief as to what the DNR policy is.

L & O


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## mbrewer (Aug 16, 2014)

PalookaJim said:


> Please let reason and higher thinking prevail.


That's all anyone could hope for. 

Reason and higher thinking should be all the motivation you need to abandon the victim card. Don't play it, don't deal it.


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## Lumberman (Sep 27, 2010)

DirtySteve said:


> It shouldn't be hard. Other states have similar laws. Generally the rule is you can't take a weapon with you in the process.
> 
> South Dakota allows ditch hunting for small game. They allow you to retrieve on private land as long as your weapon doesn't cross over onto the private land with you. They don't allow ditch hunting for big game.....so I am not sure if you can track a wounded deer in the same manner.


I wonder if this has introduced before. Could get it on MUCCs agenda. Might be a real simple solution. 

The only problem...

There is such thing as a true fence sitter. Like hunting an open field and waiting for deer to cross the line for a second, shooting it, and it going right back across the line. That shouldn't be acceptable either. 

I don't how you would separate the OP from these fence sitters.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

Liver and Onions said:


> Are you sure ? Born2 said he had just gotten off the phone with the DNR Law Division. The 1 time I called the Law Division I got to talk with the top dog. I'm pretty sure anyone giving out opinions on the Law is not the secretary. So, we got two quite different answers. One from a CO and the other from the DNR in Lansing.
> Did you call Lansing and talk with the Chief of the Law Division ? At this point, I'm only taking the word of the Chief as to what the DNR policy is.
> 
> L & O


But here's the thing. Calling the DNR Law Enforcement division means you will be talking to someone sitting behind a desk, not out in the field. The desk keepers tend to think everyone thinks like they do.


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## bmoffit (Dec 3, 2007)

mbrewer said:


> That's all anyone could hope for.
> 
> Reason and higher thinking should be all the motivation you need to abandon the victim card. Don't play it, don't deal it.


No where in my original post did I ever claim to be a victim. And I'm certainly not looking for sympathy. That's not what this thread is about. 

Its about sharing a rather unfortunate situation and I was looking for input on why someone would deny access to recover there animal..... nothing more.... nothing less


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## mbrewer (Aug 16, 2014)

bmoffit said:


> No where in my original post did I ever claim to be a victim. And I'm certainly not looking for sympathy. That's not what this thread is about.
> 
> Its about sharing a rather unfortunate situation and I was looking for input on why someone would deny access to recover there animal..... nothing more.... nothing less


Forgive me for not being more clear. In no way was my comment directed at you. Palooka was the object of my affection.


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## November Sunrise (Jan 12, 2006)

Liver and Onions said:


> Are you sure ? Born2 said he had just gotten off the phone with the DNR Law Division. The 1 time I called the Law Division I got to talk with the top dog. I'm pretty sure anyone giving out opinions on the Law is not the secretary. So, we got two quite different answers. One from a CO and the other from the DNR in Lansing.
> Did you call Lansing and talk with the Chief of the Law Division ? At this point, I'm only taking the word of the Chief as to what the DNR policy is.
> 
> L & O


100% sure that the purpose of the RAP line is not to tap into tracking assistance of a CO when encountering an uncooperative neighbor. 

Unless the deer died in sight the hunter doesn't even know if the deer is dead. It is not standard practice for a CO to go searching for wounded deer on properties the hunter can't access.


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## Rasputin (Jan 13, 2009)

Deer are to be respected, but they are not mythical beings. At the end of the day, property rights must be respected above the rights a hunter wishes he had.


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## hunterrep (Aug 10, 2005)

Lumberman said:


> Hmm. I wonder how hard it would be to write this into a law as an exception. Like retrieving a dog. Just make it LEGAL to retrieve wounded game.


Maybe I'm not detecting sarcasm, but if this became law, trespassing would easily double under the guise of "I'm just retrieving a deer I shot last night". Trespassing, ESPECIALLY during gun season, is bad enough as it is. 
This law would be disastrous. 
Laws can't fix everything. These retrieval issues are likely far and few between and when they do happen, there is usually a very telling back-story that explains how it should have been avoided.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

petronius said:


> But here's the thing. Calling the DNR Law Enforcement division means you will be talking to someone sitting behind a desk, not out in the field. The desk keepers tend to think everyone thinks like they do.


I have called the dnr a few times in my life to inquire about the legalities of something. Each time I was sent straight to an officer's desk phone. I was either told he was in at the moment or they were out in the field and I could leave a message. When I couldn't speak with them at that moment they always called me back eventually. One time I was sent to the forestry division because my question pertained to a logging operation.

All that being said it isn't uncommon to get two different Leo's to give different opinions on a subject. You will notice that deadshort's comments start with "my opinnion". Sometime the manner a question is asked can alter the answer.


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## kingfisher 11 (Jan 26, 2000)

I am sorry but I think there is more to the story or some history. May not even be with the OP.

We lease my uncle's place. There is a hunt club next to us, they have quite a bit more land. What they do is put all there blinds right on the property line. Even when it turns to state land, which I know they have the right to do. We had a problem last weekend. They have one blind 100 yards from our pines where most of the deer bed (about 20 yards from the line). No one has used this blind for years, its right on our main road in. Cousin even dropped trees and left tops there. We set up a feeder and ladder stand about 75 yards inside the line. I was walking the road that runs to the stand. When I got there the guy started whistling at us, like hey I am here you can't hunt there. So we mumbled a few words and moved on to another set. We came back with the side by side and moved everything, even the feeder that night. We normally park there with the trucks or now side by side any way. So we decided if we could not hunt it we would start parking there again, normally do. We have not seen anyone in it since. No way would I put any blind on a property line and expect to stop the opposing land owner from using his land. Now would we let these guys get a deer if it wondered over, probably not. We already know they are pricks. They are presently trying to break a logging agreement with my uncle who owns the land we hunt. They were court last week so we have some history.


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## Imphedup (Sep 5, 2016)

Robert Holmes said:


> Palookajim, your problem on state land is not uncommon. I have had the same issues in the UP. The solution is for you to have done a better job scouting and to have some back up spots. I have no problem moving and will do so in a hurry if an idiot moves in on top of me. I am guessing that you had the perfect trail leading to your spot from baiting many times before deer season.


Lol! Yup I agree.. buddy of mine has property surrounded by state land. Wonders why everyone is hugging the property line?
WELL!! Maybe the 5000lbs of bait you put out?? Thats where the deer are going. People just trying to cut them off.


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## motdean (Oct 23, 2011)

PalookaJim said:


> Hmmmm.
> 
> _1. "My opening day hunt was ruined buy a public land slob". _* FACT. *Another hunter set up next to me after first light when he knew I was there. He had coughing fits, smoked cigarettes, left his stand and returned 4 times, and had 2 runny bowel movements. While I respect his right to use public lands as he sees fit, his activity ruined my experience.
> _2. "The OP's hunt was ruined because his wife did not make a killing shot." _*FACT. * This seems obvious to me, but apparently others can't grasp the concept. HELLO!! THE DEER RAN AWAY!
> ...


"He ruined my experience."....That is priceless. *FACT:* You allowed him to ruin your experience.

PalookaJoe seemed to have an axe to grind with the OP...and even tried to state that he was trespassing on land that his tree stands were stolen from...and I think he said he could prove it, but never did.

Now PalookaJim seems to have an axe to grind with the same OP.


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## aph (Oct 21, 2002)

The neighbor is prolly growing Weed..... think that happens quite often.


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## Brian Berg (Jun 22, 2013)

You reap what you sow. Usually what I do when dealing with difficult people is pray for them. What better way to change someone than to let God work on them? Believe me, it works.


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## mbrewer (Aug 16, 2014)

Brian Berg said:


> You reap what you sow. Usually what I do when dealing with difficult people is pray for them. What better way to change someone than to let God work on them? Believe me, it works.


This thread and others like it, make it seem like it might be easier to walk on water than it is to forgive those who trespass against us.


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## Brian Berg (Jun 22, 2013)

mbrewer said:


> This thread and others like it, make it seem like it might be easier to walk on water than it is to forgive those who trespass against us.


By not forgiving the other person, you only hurt yourself. The other person doesn't care that you're holding angst against them in your heart. 

This time of year amazes me. It shows how selfish people can be to put their desire for a deer ahead of another human being. It's just a deer..... there are lots more of them. I suggest to let it go.


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## PalookaJim (Sep 24, 2015)

motdean said:


> "He ruined my experience."....That is priceless. *FACT:* You allowed him to ruin your experience.
> 
> PalookaJoe seemed to have an axe to grind with the OP...and even tried to state that he was trespassing on land that his tree stands were stolen from...and I think he said he could prove it, but never did.
> 
> Now PalookaJim seems to have an axe to grind with the same OP.


If I could change my handle I would. My name is Jim not Joe. I'm getting the impression that Joe farted in here a year ago and I'm getting blamed for it.


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## Corey K (Dec 11, 2009)

.


Rasputin said:


> Deer are to be respected, but they are not mythical beings. At the end of the day, property rights must be respected above the rights a hunter wishes he had.



Reminds me of the home owners that live on a golf course, and then bitch and moan when a ball goes in their lawn and a player tries to retrieve it. Sorry people are not perfect golfers or hunters and less than perfect shots happen. According to pookie Joe they should make fairways wider for the average golfer since we can't always keep the ball in bounds. I just imagine being some of yours neighbor, heaven forbid the football went over the fence and you guys would already have it in the fire.


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## Winter'sComing (Oct 23, 2016)

Imphedup said:


> Wow!!
> Are you the op neighbor ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



No, he doesn't hunt private land.

Spends all his time blaming other state land hunters for his misfortunes.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

Rasputin said:


> Deer are to be respected, but they are not mythical beings. At the end of the day, property rights must be respected above the rights a hunter wishes he had.


Hear!Hear!


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## mbrewer (Aug 16, 2014)

Brian Berg said:


> By not forgiving the other person, you only hurt yourself. The other person doesn't care that you're holding angst against them in your heart.
> 
> This time of year amazes me. It shows how selfish people can be to put their desire for a deer ahead of another human being. It's just a deer..... there are lots more of them. I suggest to let it go.


In case you misunderstood my intent, I agree with you.


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## Hillsdales Most Wanted (Jul 17, 2015)

Rasputin said:


> Deer are to be respected, but they are not mythical beings. At the end of the day, property rights must be respected above the rights a hunter wishes he had.


I cant wait for a youth hunter to knock on my door seeking permission to retrieve a deer, im going to tell him tough **** get lost deer arent mythical beings. Oh wait im not an a##hole i would never do that.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

There are a few states that allow hunters to retrieve game. Our laws are already pretty tough..


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

Re


PalookaJim said:


> If I could change my handle I would. My name is Jim not Joe. I'm getting the impression that Joe farted in here a year ago and I'm getting blamed for it.


Relax Jim! They are the best hunters ever and never do anything wrong. Except maybe using a .243 to hunt deer with. We all know that's not ethical.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Lumberman said:


> I wonder if this has introduced before. Could get it on MUCCs agenda. Might be a real simple solution.
> 
> The only problem...
> 
> ...


I would be of the opinion that i dont need to seperate fence sitters from the op. Fence sitting is legal and I don't think that will ever change. As long as the deer is actually on your land and you are sitting on your land you are in the right in our state. Seems simple to me.


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## motdean (Oct 23, 2011)

PalookaJim said:


> If I could change my handle I would. My name is Jim not Joe. I'm getting the impression that *Joe farted in here* a year ago and I'm getting blamed for it.



Nobody said you were Joe. Many of us just recognize some real similarities (other than the name) between you and Joe.....
Go back and read some of Joe's posts....they are still available.

By the way, maybe it was the chili that Joe had last year prior to hunting on state land....


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## Musket (May 11, 2009)

The only good outcome I can see in this hole affair would be that your wife will perhaps be able to overcome the feeling of disparity she is going through and make it back to the tree. I wish her the best.


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## Brian Berg (Jun 22, 2013)

mbrewer said:


> In case you misunderstood my intent, I agree with you.


You're right. I reread. I agree with you.


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## U of M Fan (May 8, 2005)

Hillsdales Most Wanted said:


> I cant wait for a youth hunter to knock on my door seeking permission to retrieve a deer, im going to tell him tough **** get lost deer arent mythical beings. Oh wait im not an a##hole i would never do that.


Amen!!!!

My buddy got denied access to get his daughters 1st deer a few years back. I'm not one who is ok with trespassing but I would have a hard time not getting that deer. He did what the land owners son said and stayed out. He didn't want them going into his sanctuary. I couldn't do that to a kid. But at the end of the day it's the land owners right to deny access no matter how big of a DB move it is.


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## angry angler (Mar 4, 2012)

These problems are only gonna get worse. Every time you see property for sale bigger hunks are getting broken up into a bunch of 5 and 10 acre sections. I would never deny access to retrieve a Down animal. Just would expect the same treatment back. Good neighbors whether you own 1 acre or a 1000 are invaluable.


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## Rasputin (Jan 13, 2009)

Hillsdales Most Wanted said:


> I cant wait for a youth hunter to knock on my door seeking permission to retrieve a deer, im going to tell him tough **** get lost deer arent mythical beings. Oh wait im not an a##hole i would never do that.


What I would or wouldn't do is irrelevant. If we don't have the right as property owners to deny access, do we really own the land? Are you guys suggesting that we take your attitude to its logical conclusion and make all land belong to the state? If a bird watcher has the bird he wants a picture of fly to private property, he should be able to follow it in, right? Might be the picture of a lifetime after all. 

By the way, I want all you guys to leave your house unlocked today and the tube on, so anyone that needs to watch the ballgame can.

For what it's worth, I would not say no to a hunter that needs to track a deer on my property, but I certainly don't want people dictating to me.


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## ratherboutside (Mar 19, 2010)

Rasputin said:


> What I would or wouldn't do is irrelevant. If we don't have the right as property owners to deny access, do we really own the land? Are you guys suggesting that we take your attitude to its logical conclusion and make all land belong to the state? If a bird watcher has the bird he wants a picture of fly to private property, he should be able to follow it in, right? Might be the picture of a lifetime after all.
> 
> By the way, I want all you guys to leave your house unlocked today and the tube on, so anyone that needs to watch the ballgame can.
> 
> For what it's worth, I would not say no to a hunter that needs to track a deer on my property, but I certainly don't want people dictating to me.


Done. Stop by whenever


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## eyepod (Dec 31, 2010)

Karma is a unforgiving Bitch, Hope she bites the old grump in the A** some day .


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Rasputin said:


> What I would or wouldn't do is irrelevant. If we don't have the right as property owners to deny access, do we really own the land? Are you guys suggesting that we take your attitude to its logical conclusion and make all land belong to the state? If a bird watcher has the bird he wants a picture of fly to private property, he should be able to follow it in, right? Might be the picture of a lifetime after all.
> 
> By the way, I want all you guys to leave your house unlocked today and the tube on, so anyone that needs to watch the ballgame can.
> 
> For what it's worth, I would not say no to a hunter that needs to track a deer on my property, but I certainly don't want people dictating to me.


You would still own the land if you had to allow access to track a shot deer. There are other reasons you have to allow access. This is just one more and it shouldn't be a big deal. Think about it....is it really that big of a deal if you own a piece of land and someone has to spend an hr or so on your property over finding their deer 10 times or so over a period of 25 yrs? Are your rights really violated? I think you are making too big a deal out of this. 

Atleast it is over a good reason that is something that isn't really preventable.....unlike the law that says you have to allow a dog owner access fir a lost dog.


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## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

Rasputin said:


> What I would or wouldn't do is irrelevant. If we don't have the right as property owners to deny access, do we really own the land? Are you guys suggesting that we take your attitude to its logical conclusion and make all land belong to the state? If a bird watcher has the bird he wants a picture of fly to private property, he should be able to follow it in, right? Might be the picture of a lifetime after all.
> 
> By the way, I want all you guys to leave your house unlocked today and the tube on, so anyone that needs to watch the ballgame can.
> 
> For what it's worth, I would not say no to a hunter that needs to track a deer on my property, but I certainly don't want people dictating to me.


Depending on the situation, my recovery of an animal and possible memory of a lifetime, trumps any and all no harm no foul laws....Sorry it does...This of course, is to do everything possible up to that point for recovery....And yes I own land...


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