# Fixed or Mechanical - a 12 year ordeal



## wolfgang510 (Feb 15, 2001)

I am using expandable broad heads now and my conclusion for ME is:

I am more confident, more accurate and my life is better now that I have decided firmly on a mechanical head. Read below to find out why.

I consider myself an average bow hunter in terms of shooting ability. I practice 3-4 days/week usually starting around August 1st thru mid November. I shoot 2-3 deer average each year. This will be my 13th season. I own two bows one right and one left handed both entry level I believe around $300 brand new when I got them. I have settled on the right hand model even though I'm left eye dominant. Over the years I have used thunderhead 100, Montec 100, spitfire expandable 100 and G5 T3 100gr heads. I have never liked the idea of a mechanical and I spent the first 10 years trying to get fixed heads to fly. I have tried changing everything: arrow spine, different fletching, drop-away rest, whisker biscuit, string loop/no string loop, three different release aides, aluminum/carbon etc. along with every tuning method on the web. With a Montec/blazer vane combo I can shoot reasonable groups at 20 yards, but my groupings are always significantly tighter with an expandable. Now that I have made the switch 100% my life is better in many ways:

1. Use 1 target all season.
2. No need to mess with adjusting sight for practice tips vs broadheads
3. No more countless frustrating hours every year trying to get perfect broadhead flight.
4. Getting rid of fixed broadheads has allowed me to focus on more important things like practicing sitting vs standing, eliminating TP, low light vs bright, all different yardages and angles and worrying more about how many pins to use and what yardages to set them at.
5. I can now just focus on hunting and shooting form and basically forget about equipment issues. This has been hugely liberating for me.
6. I have never lost a well hit deer with either a mechanical or a fixed. I have given a couple "hair cuts" with both but luckily I have found every mortally hit animal including three gut shots and luck was definitely on my side for those.
7. I have wasted so many hours trying to tune broadhead flight from my bow than I care to admit. I have shot several deer with fixed heads and I've been able to achieve reasonable consistancy with fixed, but never as deadly accurate and precise as with expandables. 

My opinion is unless you have an expensive bow or are a very advanced archer, put on a mechanical head and focus your time and energy on more important factors with bow hunting. I am far better off now that I've "made the switch."


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## Bullrush (Oct 7, 2005)

Confidence and accuracy thats what kills 

sent from a mototola fancy phone


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## johndeere506 (Oct 26, 2009)

Just curious, what mechanicals did you wind up going with? I have my fixed blades flying good right now, but do require an adjustment from fields tips. I would like something that flys the same, for target life and ease of practice.
I think the biggest thing that scares me is a mechanical opening in flight, on my compound or my crossbow.


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## HAMBONE69 (Sep 25, 2012)

good post, I'm using Torrid ss 3 blade Mech., check out the you tube vid, preety nice, I payed 12.95 at Walmart...Yes I'm on a fixed budget...lol


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## Joe Archer (Mar 29, 2000)

It sounds like you shoot a pretty fast bow. Mechanicals were invented because at high speeds it is virtually impossible to get fixed blades to fly like field points - period. 
I would advise anyone in a similar situation to paper tune *to perfection *and if your fixed blades don't hit where your field tips do - go to mechanicals. 
I know many will say to walk-back tune after paper tune, but I don't go that route. I mean; how can you improve on "perfect"? 
<----<<<


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

But the main reason I use mech is because of my flaws... I can shoot BH and FP together but 1 of 10 I will have a flier and the only thing I can blame is me torquing the bow or something... I can take that same flier and drill holes the next 10 shots...So that is my main reason.. They are less affected by bad form. And in the heat of the moment concentration on form and the mechanics can be lost.... least with me 

IMO everything possible has to be done to get the BH to fly with FP... Yesterday I couldn't work out a 3" difference at 40 yards... Didnt feel comfortable hunting with it that way so the bow came apart last night to start from scratch..hopefully things will work out tonight when I get home..

Like Bullrush said "_Confidence and accuracy thats what kills" 
_


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

Joe Archer said:


> I know many will say to walk-back tune after paper tune, but I don't go that route. I mean; how can you improve on "perfect"?
> <----<<<


 I dont know, bows are weird contraptions, but I was shooting a bare shaft bullet hole and couldnt believe that I still needed to adjust my rest when I walk back tuned..


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## Martian (Apr 28, 2011)

good for you, this year, I will shoot fixed, but I love spitfiree's All my life, playing music, I heard Fender/Gibson. If you played one, you should have got the other. Both work. But on killing somethin, at full draw, just before release, you cannot have it go through your head,"where is this going to hit". confidence will drive that arrow where you are looking. good luck


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## lodge lounger (Sep 16, 2005)

I had a bad experience with expandables when I was shooting a slower bow. So I went back to my old reliable Thunderheads, which fly consistently for me. I am now shooting a much faster bow, but don't see a need to change. They don't hit in the same place as my field points, but they do hit consistently. My solution is to practice only with broadheads. Replacement blades are cheap, and although I need to replace my target more frequently, I have absolute confidence in how they are flying and where I'm hitting.


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## Waz_51 (Jan 10, 2010)

lodge lounger said:


> I had a bad experience with expandables when I was shooting a slower bow. So I went back to my old reliable Thunderheads, which fly consistently for me. I am now shooting a much faster bow, but don't see a need to change. They don't hit in the same place as my field points, but they do hit consistently. My solution is to practice only with broadheads. Replacement blades are cheap, and although I need to replace my target more frequently, I have absolute confidence in how they are flying and where I'm hitting.


and thats all that matters! good luck this season!


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## wolfgang510 (Feb 15, 2001)

I shoot the g5 T3. What I like best is the ease of replacing the blades. They come with extra spider clips. Very easy to pop the blades out, clean the head, touch up the blades on a stone and put back in. Comes in handy after shooting a coyote and arrow ends up in the dirt. I would hate to waste a $13 broadhead on a coyote otherwise. Penetration is adequate but certainly not as good as with the montec.


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## B1g daddy of 3 (Jul 1, 2011)

I use both muzzy mx3 and rage chisel tips 2 blade. my rage practice heads fly the same out to 50 yards and my muzzys go to 35 then they get squirlie. Im mainly carrying the rages, im keeping 1 muzzy for a EHD deer or a coyote.


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## Yooper57 (Sep 20, 2012)

Well said. I too love mechanical and been successful with them.


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## DetroitDave (Dec 19, 2010)

I have used mechanicals for years (20) and only had one problem with expandables.. I bought a cheap pack and found 2 out of 3 blades broke on impact causing a lost deer... I think poor heat treating.. any reputable brand will work well.... And BELIEVE the guys that tell you if you shoot fixed, they are tune sensitive and you should practice shooting them...GOOD LUCK THIS YEAR!


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## GRUNDY (Jun 18, 2005)

I generally tend to agree. I can tune my bow until I'm blue in the face, and the dang fixed heads will still have a 2-3" discrepancy. I know paper tune for the best tear possible, double check with a fixed head to make sure they are at leas hitting half way close. Then install a tekan, or T3. Next will be a Grim Reaper.

B


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## beenfarr (Dec 8, 2008)

wolfgang510 said:


> I am using expandable broad heads now and my conclusion for ME is:
> 
> I am more confident, more accurate and my life is better now that I have decided firmly on a mechanical head. Read below to find out why.
> 
> ...



I decided a couple of years ago that i was sucking the fun out of archery and driving myself nuts trying to perfectly tune and maintain a perfect tune on my bow. I have since decided that if my peep isn't perfectly straight I'll just offset my d-loop a bit, if my cam's are not perfectly synced my life will go on just fine, and if I only have 10% FOC on my arrow the sun will rise again. :lol: It's nice just to shoot the stupid bow be happy and go on my merry way. 

Side note- I could shoot a little better when i was driving myself nuts but who cares...I'm not trying to be an Olympian. 

Ben


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## JohnBischoff (Oct 11, 2012)

Very happy with rage three blade, last buck I shot looked like someone plunged a chainsaw through it! only problem is it how easy the blades pop open not good if you are trying to stalk.


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## Kelly Johnson (May 22, 2005)

Glad you found a solution.

I'll be the voice of dissent on this one however.

Here's my concern...

Anyone that's no a bow tuner/techie that can't get fixed blade heads to fly right slaps on a mechanical and thinks they're good to go.

Here's the reality though.

Most fixed heads WILL tune if you tune them.
Some won't, granted, but I'll bet that more times than not it's a bunk arrow that has it's flaw revealed by the broadhead than the broadhead itself.

Now mechanicals of an variety sap off energy to activate the opening of the head, effectively reducing the KE that could be used for penetration.

So Jimmy Weekender is shooting a 60lb bow that shoots 255fps but he thinks he's shooting 322 cause that's the the IBO sticker on the bow told him. it's marginally tuned....he can hit a pie plate at 20 most times but it's ALWAYS nock high and the arrow is porpoising it's way to the target.

He puts on a muzzy and that pie plate turns into a dishwasher.:lol:

Now he adds a mechanical and his pie plate comes back but guess what...with his setup he really DOESN'T have ke to spare. Even less cause his arrows a mess downrange and than he hits a bone?

Nit picky maybe and to be honest, I KNOW you're not that guy. Hell you're HERE telling the story. My guy doesn't have the interest to look at this site.

I have nothing against Mechs provided they're seen as one of many tools in the box and not used entirely as a crutch for jacked up archery gear.


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## wolfgang510 (Feb 15, 2001)

I hear you Kelly. That is why I've spent so much time on tuning. Tuning did improve things too, just not enough for my liking. I've got a believe the bow quality is a factor. I've never shot anything above entry level and since my setup kills deer I can't justify upgrading at this time. At 65lbs I'm shooting 252fps. One big factor with a fall away rest and trying to adjust center shot was fletching contact. I found with my setup that a little fletching contact with a broadhead made a big difference but that same arrow with a field tip was not noticeably affected by the fletching contact.


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## GRUNDY (Jun 18, 2005)

Bow quality is not a factor. Even the low end ones of today have high quality components, and are more consistent than 90+% of archers could begin to shoot the difference.

I've come to the conclusion that the fast bows of the past 5-10 years have really caused fixed head shooters alot of problems. When I can shoot a softball size group with Fp's at 40+ yards but can't for the life of me get a muzzy 100 or slicktrick to fly deadnuts with Fp's to at least 30 yards, I just get the feeling that there is something else at play. I too got to the point that it was sucking all the fun out of archery and hunting.

I also think the carbon arrow has added to this problem because they cover such a wide spine range. When you need an accurate spine tailored just for your bow, and you only get one of 3 spine choices, there is alot more work that needs to be done adjusting arrow length point weight and bow poundage. Compare that with picking an aluminum arrow that is as close as possible to the spine you need at a specific arrow length, and you have alot less messing around to get things to the sweet spot.

It does bother me to great ends that so many people will just slap on a mech head and "quick fix" it. Only to plant one into a deer and get crappy performance, and possibly lose the deer. But you just can't blame ole joe bowhunter, cuz his work just doubled, and his time is alot less than what is used to be. The mfg's are really the biggest problem. along with uneducated "pro shops"

B


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## wolfgang510 (Feb 15, 2001)

So CAM lean, CAM type, LIMB type, knock travel, brace height do not matter? How about space for larger fletchings. When I put my arrow rest on center with Blazer Vanes I have hardly any room to move the rest toward the riser otherwise I get fletching contact. I can tell you that comparing my bow to a Mathews Switchback there is a big difference in the way the arrow/string/rest/pin sights line up. I have always had to offset my pins quite a bit and the difference at rest vs full draw is also quite substantial. Most pro shops have told me some bows are easier to tune than others. I'm sure there are some great shooting cheap bows and lousy shooting expensive ones as well.

With field tips my bow is incredibly accurate and I can out shoot most of my friends who all have $800 bows but I think there is a difference in being consistant vs easy to tune. What I would love is broad heads stacked on top of field points and I've never been able to get that.


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## GRUNDY (Jun 18, 2005)

All the cam lean, nock travel and all that jazz does add to the problem. I can get a recurve bow to shoot fp's with BH's all by shooting with fingers and off the shelf. What enables the good BH performance is being able to get arrow spine matched perfectly to the bow. This is a real pain in the butt with a recurve because you cannot adjust all the things you can on a compound. A big plus is that they are not nearly as fast, so the fletching is more effective at steering the arrow. All that cam lean and stuff has most likely always existed. With today's speeds on bows cam lean and all that can become a factor when your arrow spine is not dead nuts. You have to keep in mind that an arrow does not simply come off a bow, if flexes and warps as it leaves the bow (archers paradox), once it recovers it is then able to fly clean and can fly a BH well with the aid of the fletching. I'm starting to get to the point where I can no longer effectively explain arrow flight, but lets just suffice to say that todays bow quality if very high and is not really a factor in accuracy, especially if a recurve bow shot of the shelf can be shot with great accuracy when set up right and the proper shooting form is used.

I went through a stint shooting and hunting with a recurve. it was a real eye opener as to what the key to good arrow flight is.

My biggest problem I feel in getting good BH flight out of my Destoryer 340 is that its so fast, and I know my arrow spine is not spot on. I simply do not have the time, or care to spend the money cutting and adjusting, shooting tuning and pulling my hair out to squeeze the last drop out of the lemon. I paper tune it for the best bullet hole I can get. Shoot a couple fixed heads to verify flight to 25 yards impacts with fps, then I screw on a quality mech of the same wieght, and then continue to enjoy my backyard shooting and can trust that if presented with a quality 30-35 yard shot, that arrow flight will not be an issue. It will be up to me, and my decision to assess the conditions and make a good judgment whether or not to shoot with that much air between me and a deer.

B


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## wolfgang510 (Feb 15, 2001)

Having the wrong spine could certainly explain all my troubles. How in the heck does anyone find an AFFORDABLE way to find the perfect spine with modern compund bow and carbon arrows? I guess if I had the desire to try it all over again I would buy a carbon arrow that was way too long for my bow and start with a 125 grain point and then gradually shorten the arrow and/or decrease the point weight until I could got the proper spine? and then if I still can't get it right? and what if the broadhead I like doesn't come in the head weight I need? and then after all that shooting I'll need to buy a new target and perhpas new bow string. Keep in mind I'm not the guy who settles for 3" groups at 25 yards.


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## beenfarr (Dec 8, 2008)

wolfgang510 said:


> Having the wrong spine could certainly explain all my troubles. How in the heck does anyone find an AFFORDABLE way to find the perfect spine with modern compund bow and carbon arrows? I guess if I had the desire to try it all over again I would buy a carbon arrow that was way too long for my bow and start with a 125 grain point and then gradually shorten the arrow and/or decrease the point weight until I could got the proper spine? and then if I still can't get it right? and what if the broadhead I like doesn't come in the head weight I need? and then after all that shooting I'll need to buy a new target and perhpas new bow string. Keep in mind I'm not the guy who settles for 3" groups at 25 yards.


Here's how I do it. http://www.pinwheelsoftware.com/ss.aspx I recommend the full version as you can make sight tapes or figure out pin gaps and see how changes you make will effect performance.


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## GRUNDY (Jun 18, 2005)

Be careful with pinwheel. Its a GARBAGE IN GARBAGE OUT program that is very easy to put garbage into.

The best way I have found is to follwo the mfg arrow charts to the T! They make their money off selling you a proper arrow. The trick is that YOU need to follow the selction guid to the absolute. I've not been in a pro shop yet that seems to really understand the arrow selection charts. My favorite brand is Carbon Express. Mostly becasue the arrow selection guide seems to be the most comprehensive. You must know your actual peak bow poundage for the adjusted bow weight calculator. Once you know you adjusted bow weight you can select from the spine charts. Easton, and other mfg's have similar instructions for selectibg arrows, but most people skip reading the instructions.

B


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## GRUNDY (Jun 18, 2005)

I should also add that in spite of doing all this, and having a pretty well spined arrow for my bow, the biggest fixed blade BH flight factor is and will always be my form. 

Case in point tonight, one group standard muzzy 100 and 2 FPs in a softball group at 40 yards, next one I barely pulled the shot on the BH and I have a 6-8" descrepancy.

I have full confidence that an expandable will hit what I'm looking at with my compound.

This is all my arrow knowledge...

Best of luck this season.

Brian


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## beenfarr (Dec 8, 2008)

GRUNDY said:


> Be careful with pinwheel. Its a GARBAGE IN GARBAGE OUT program that is very easy to put garbage into.
> 
> The best way I have found is to follwo the mfg arrow charts to the T! They make their money off selling you a proper arrow. The trick is that YOU need to follow the selction guid to the absolute. I've not been in a pro shop yet that seems to really understand the arrow selection charts. My favorite brand is Carbon Express. Mostly becasue the arrow selection guide seems to be the most comprehensive. You must know your actual peak bow poundage for the adjusted bow weight calculator. Once you know you adjusted bow weight you can select from the spine charts. Easton, and other mfg's have similar instructions for selectibg arrows, but most people skip reading the instructions.
> 
> B



I understand what you're saying, but I find that most arrow spine charts are a little vague, and if you have to know your exact peak poundage then you get back right back to garbage in garbage out. I guess it all comes to your level of obsessiveness. :lol:


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