# Duck/deer Hunting



## unregistered55 (Mar 12, 2000)

NO LEAD OR SINGLE SHOT PROJECTILES(ASIDE FROM ARROWS OR BALLBEARINGS,YES,WRISTROCKETS ARE LEGAL FOR HUNTING WATERFOWL) IN POSESSION WHEN WATERFOWL HUNTING BOB.


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## trout (Jan 17, 2000)

> I'D BOW HUNT,WHICH BY THE WAY,IT'S LEGAL TO HUNT WATERFOWL WITH A BOW.WHY AREN'T YOU CONCERNED ABOUT ARROW'S FLYING OVERHEAD?


Exactly
He can't carry slugs either.


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## Jason Adam (Jun 27, 2001)

For the guys worried about getting hit at fish point, remember that the managed area there has a maximum shot size restrition IN THE MANAGED AREA. I think its BBB.


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## Zofchak (Jan 10, 2003)

There is a size liimit in the draw areas of fish point, but not the open areas surrounding it. My camper is dinged all to he** from flying bb's I can imagine if someone decided they could skybust birds at 100 yards. I thinks it's true that lead buckshot would have been legel before the non-tox rules, but with today's loads with hevi-shot your looking at metal that is almost 20% heavier than lead and is being propelled at speeds far greater than shells from 15 years ago. True most sportsman would not consider using buckshot to hunt waterfowl, but it's not most sportsman that we need to worry about. 


Boehr who would be a good person to write to concerning this problem?


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## trout (Jan 17, 2000)

> with hevi-shot your looking at metal that is almost 20% heavier than lead and is being propelled at speeds far greater than shells from 15 years ago.


Speeds faster than what? 1300 fps? 1350?
I have a 1925 hunting Magazine in which a manufacturer claims their gun alone will drop ducks at 80 yds.
Hog wash and so is the paranoia that speeds are increased to higher levels which could be of safety concerns.
If your trailer is getting Dinged? don't you think the smart thing to do is file a complaint and have the idiots move farther away from shore?
I carry Bismuth and shoot squirrels and ducks, I carry a Hunter orange hat and wear it when I see a squirrel. Takes me 2 secs to put it on.
Squirrel in the bag I go for more ducks.
The day I get a ticket for that I'll go to court and plead my case.
If a guy wants to carry Heavyshot buckshot while duck hunting and take along a orange hat in case he sees a deer I say let him.
If it is within the laws where he is hunting at the time.
Safety in the field is not governed by the loads in the gun.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Natural Resource Commission (NRC) has the authority to make all buckshot, regardless of type, illegal.

Trout, I will have to respectfully disagree with you on the buckshot issue. There are many hunters out there in Wildfowl Bay that would use the hevi-shot buck shot especially for geese and I would strongly suspect for ducks too. It is not just along the shoreline where deer may be seen but also near all the islands too. If fact some years I specifically went out to Hiesterman Island to work mainly deer hunters and the occasional duck hunter during Thanksgiving. Granted that there are many places that it will not be very crowded and deer and waterfowl may make a good combination. At the same time, I don't believe there are many places where a waterfowler would not use buckshot on geese if that happens to be what is loaded at the time, orange or no orange. But I believe there is a safety issue with the use of a type of buckshot in Wildfowl Bay or any other like area. Safety not only to property but people too.

As far as in the days before non-toxic shot, I'm not sure if buckshot was legal at that time but my feelings are that morals, ethics and selfishness where a little different then verses now. No more hand shake agreements. Now you need to pay an attorney and have signed contract.


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## unregistered55 (Mar 12, 2000)

I miss ducks at 30 yards using #6 Hevi-shot.There are over 200 pellets in a #6 shell.
The buckshot shell has only 9 pellets.So,being that,as previously stated,there'd be nothing left if you hit a duck with a load of buckshot,the shells are going to cost you over $2 a peice,and your chances of hitting a duck with buckshot are slim & none & slim just walked out the door,I don't think you need to worry about skybusters using buckshot.
"Z",you're correct about the open areas around Fish point not being governed by shot size,but these areas are open to firearm deer season,and slugs & sabots are legal.I haven't seen any safety cocerns about the "deer hunting only" hunters using the marshes.I'd be more concerned about them,especially if you were to factor in the distance a slug/sabot would carry if it bounced on the water,then I would be about someone duck/deer hunting with legal loads for each species.
I was wondering,what problem are you looking to write someone about?You're trailer getting shot,or your concerns about someone combo hunting ducks & deer?


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

But deer don't fly unless you've been drinking.

Sorry SP1187 but I have caught people with buckshot for geese in Wildfowl Bay and Rush Lake. Whethere it works or not doesn't matter. I have also investigated dummies shooting at boats trying to motor in or out when some thought they were to close to their decoys. So there is a safety concern in my opinion.


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## unregistered55 (Mar 12, 2000)

Sorry boehr,but I don't think rules should be made that affect law-abiding citizens,because of a few lawbreakers.If I did I'd be all for gun control,or banning alcohol because of drunk drivers.(I've had friends killed in DUI accidents,but I still believe in accountability).
What about the "safety issue" of using a 30:06 for 'yote hunting
in Zone 3,outside of firearm deerseason.Most people don't realize the shotgun/rifle line is only between Nov.15-Nov.30.Legally,I could,but I don't.A little common sense is called for.
And as you said,you already have caught people with buckshot poaching waterfowl,so ADDING a new law isn't going to affect them,is it?
Shooting at an occupied boat would be assault,would it not?Buckshot being legal or illegal won't change that safety issue.
Unfortunately,stupidity is not against the law.


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## Zofchak (Jan 10, 2003)

SP1187 The problem I was speaking of is it being legal to hunt waterfowl with buckshot. I can see some big safety concerns in crowded areas. True most people would not do so, but I think it would be a good idea to have some kind of size limit, afterall that's probably why they have the size limits in the managed areas. 

We have laws that limit the shot size to # 4's while hunting turkeys. These laws are there to limit the risks involved in hunting in full camo while using calls and decoys. I dont see how it is much different than hunting waterfowl. 

In many areas I hunt I have had people shoot in my direction, some knew I was there and some did not. It's neither safe or sportsman like to fire buckshot through a marsh area where fellow hunters could be much closer than you think. Not to mention that buckshot is less than an ideal load to quickly kill a deer. I know of few marshes where one could be certain about what is behind their target, especially when the majority of the people in the area are doing everything possible to stay hidden.

I can think of many times when I have seen trophy size bucks and had wished I was deer hunting and not duck hunting, but that's hunting. I remember those deer come late bow season.


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## mich buckmaster (Nov 20, 2001)

I have thought a lot about this issue, and I still NO reason to have buckshot while "Primarily" waterfowl hunting. 

It is dangerous to others, and will allow "Poachers" to be able to shoot deer illegally!!


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## Mr. 16 gauge (Jan 26, 2000)

The law re: #4 shot or smaller for turkey has nothing to do re: saftey.....it was designed to prevent people from shooting birds of a roost. A load of #2 birdshot will be just as deadly as a load of #4 shot at the same range, so why isn't #2 shot allowed?
As for the statement...." and it will allow Poachers to be able to shoot deer illegally!!" Isn't this what poachers do anyway? 
As to the saftey issue.......what if he was primarily deer hunting (orange hat and buckshot), and saw a flock of mallards off in the distance. So he shucks out his buckshot (hevishot) and loads up with a bird load and puts his camo hat on and calls in the mallards? Perfectly legal, and I don't think anyone would have any objection. Where is the saftey concern for those hunters hunting deer with slugs in the marsh? I am more concerned of them than I am a duck hunter who has a load of buckshot. I think that someone who is hunting ducks MIGHT have it in the back of their head that there could be someone in camo behind that bush......I don't think the deer hunter would be as mindful. We have gotten so used to the hunter orange law that we think everyone obeys it.......ain't true, folks! Spotted several hunters in the U.P. during firearms deer season wearing nothing but brown carharts and camo.....and they weren't duck hunting, either (unless they hunt ducks in the U.P. with high power rifles!)
This discussion has brought back to mind the "buckshot" thread on the deer hunting forums last year......all the opponents said that buckshot was ineffective and should only be used at close range. Here is a legitamet case for buckshot, and now it is being condemned as too deadly? Give me a break.


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## Robert W. McCoy Jr (Jan 18, 2002)

A dangerouse person is dangerouse with any load in any situation.

I law biding sportsman who is doing the right thing is not gonna cause danger to any body.

He will make the right decisions of what and how to hunt.

A poacher is just that a poacher. The two are not the same.


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## mich buckmaster (Nov 20, 2001)

> Here is a legitamet case for buckshot, and now it is being condemned as too deadly? Give me a break.


Legitamet case for buckshot???? If someone needs to shoot ducks and geese with buckshot then they are morons. As for the Poaching issue, yes you are correct. BUT others will use it for their advantage of taking deer unlawfully. 

Give ME a Break!!!!!!!


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## Jason Adam (Jun 27, 2001)

Every Year I talk to the sport shops around sebewang, and they always comment how come opener of goose, they have a run on 00 buckshot. The firing line is a prime spot for these clowns, that way they have some big rounds in when they get in a fight over who's bird it is....


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## mich buckmaster (Nov 20, 2001)

I guess I have had BBs fall on my head a lot over the years, but raising your gun high in the air and shooting Buckshot........well I guess I think that might hurt hitting someone on top of the head. 

But I guess I have said enough about this topic.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

> I don't think rules should be made that affect law-abiding citizens


 I would like to agree but unfortunately that is why all laws are made. If laws were made because people always did the right thing, there would be no reason to have any laws.



> What about the "safety issue" of using a 30:06 for 'yote hunting


 That's exactly why it is illegal to use at night anywhere in the state, safety. Of course yotes don't fly either.



> And as you said,you already have caught people with buckshot poaching waterfowl,so ADDING a new law isn't going to affect them,is it?


A new product making it legal because it is not legal now does make a difference. My opinion is the law should be changed because the product has changed. Then you have the safety factor because the product is legal more will use it. We are not talking about poachers, we are talking about legal to use here.



> Unfortunately,stupidity is not against the law.


That part we will come close to agreeing on but sometimes stupidity does make one do something that is against the law.


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## unregistered55 (Mar 12, 2000)

1).I NEVER advocated using buckshot on waterfowl,so give me a break.
2).Lets outlaw bow season because arrows aren't an effective way to kill deer.how many times have you heard "well,I stuck one,but I couldn't find it."I hear this 2 to 4 times a year,sometimes from the same person.I guess it's the hunting tool at fault,not the so called hunter!
3).When I teach Hunter Safety Classes,I teach "know what is beyond your intended target."
4).News Flash!!!!Poachers already poach.Are you reporting them?
5).Why not illiminate my favorite deer cartridge,the 30:06.With the woods looking like a Halloween pumpkin patch on opening day,it could be argued the carrying distance of this load is to great.It could be argued that, most deer being shot at 75 yards or less,you shouldn't use this load because it's unsafe.


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## Mr. 16 gauge (Jan 26, 2000)

My reference to a legitamet use of buckshot was re: the taking of deer, not waterfowl, as was stated in the first post on this thread. Most managed areas have a size limit on shot that would prevent it's use anyway (I think on Harsen's the largest shot size allowed is #1). There are several marsh areas that hold deer, and buckshot would be safer alternative than slugs in many of these areas. You are talking up close shots due to dense cattail/phragmites situations. You would never see a hunter....in camo or orange.....behind a screen of reeds 100 yards away.

As for your statement...."But others will use it to there advantage to take deer unlawfully". 
    

Again, an illegal deer is an illegal deer.........there isn't any way to make something "legal" for poachers to exlpoit.

Jason;
With re: to the taking of geese with buckshot. Buckshot is illegal for waterfowling, as it is made of lead. Maybe someone in the DNRs law enforcement division would be interested in knowing where these people set up?


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## unregistered55 (Mar 12, 2000)

isn't it legal to shoot squirrels from trees with a .22?and isn't it legal to shoot ***** at night from trees with a .22?sounds safe to me!


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Beat to death.


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