# Ehd numbers?



## Waz_51

Nocturnal Ghost said:


> I have heard from two land owners that they were told they don't need to continue to report new dead deer.


why would they not want this data to be as close to accurate as possible?! seems kinda funny to me...


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## Uncle Boopoo

Waz_51 said:


> why would they not want this data to be as close to accurate as possible?! seems kinda funny to me...
> 
> Why would they want to tell people how bad things are, a month before the season starts? What's done will be done and they have to sell licenses. If I hunted in those areas, I'd be looking for new ground this fall.
> 
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## Chuck

I know people who are finding them in Calhoun county and the latest number I can find is only 20, Does anyone know how they would report this or where to call to report to the DNR? Is there any email address ?

I searched and cant find anything yet


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## Liver and Onions

Chuck said:


> I know people who are finding them in Calhoun county and the latest number I can find is only 20, Does anyone know how they would report this or where to call to report to the DNR? Is there any email address ?
> 
> I searched and cant find anything yet


Look at the link in post # 2.

L & O


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## Chuck

cool thanks L&O!


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## TSudz

Man, those symptoms sound like a bad science fiction movie...get bitten, and 8 days later, you're dead.


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## me223656

Anyone see the new numbers? My phone wont update that site on my phone

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## soggybtmboys

A fella posted in another thread that his BIL found a pair of dead deer in a pond, north of Parma in Jackson county. Sounds like it may possibly be spreading out even more. 


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## bowman68

dnr numbers are a guess as normal. 56 in clinton county i know of 75 in 1 square mile in clinton county.


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## Liver and Onions

bowman68 said:


> dnr numbers are a guess as normal. 56 in clinton county i know of 75 in 1 square mile in clinton county.


How does a guy from Houghton Lake know that this is a fact and not just bar talk ? I'm not saying that it couldn't be true, but I bet that not many 1 square mile sections in Clinton County even have(or had) 75 deer.

L & O


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## NovemberWhitetailz

bowman68 said:


> dnr numbers are a guess as normal. 56 in clinton county i know of 75 in 1 square mile in clinton county.


The DNR #'s are not guesses, they are in fact, FACT! The numbers on the site are only the ones that have been reported. Yes, there are many more dead deer. Why? Because you can't cover every inch of your ground (I know I can't) and some people just don't report them for whatever reason.

1 sq mile is 600 acres? Am I right? I can promise you there are more than 75 deer in one square mile in that county.


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## Outdoorsman17

660 acres in a mile. I agree some mile sections in that county can have 75 deer or more.


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## Liver and Onions

Outdoorsman17 said:


> 660 acres in a mile.......


640 is the correct number. Easy to remember if you think that there are 4 square 40s along each mile stretch. 160X4

L & O


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## casscityalum

Outdoorsman17 said:


> 660 acres in a mile. I agree some mile sections in that county can have 75 deer or more.


640 acres  43560 sq ft in an acre. 

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## Outdoorsman17

your right, to quick on the draw:lol:


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## anonymous7242016

Here is the update.
Click the link.
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_12150-283966--,00.html


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## Liver and Onions

In case anyone was wondering about Ionia County and recent deer kill, the 2011 Harvest Report had them killing a total of 9,856 deer last year which is an average of 17.2 per sq. mile. 

L & O


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## Tip-up Teaser

Went out checking my trailcam in the Allegan State Game area (literally 1 hour ago). I came across a doe that was bedded that I didn't see until I was 5 yards away from it. She just looked up at me and then put her head back down. At one point she tried to take off, but she lost her balance and fell over. This was right next to a creek near Fennville. I checked for other deer along the creek, but found none (although I wasn't able to walk real far due to how thick it was).


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## bowman68

I have lived in H/L for 5 years I have hunted that mrsga for 25. was there sat morning corner of stone and grange went to the west and found 10 deer my self. want pics? all 10 were in a area of 400 sq yards. so if there is 17 deer per sq mile almost half the deer in the sq mile i hunt died in that small of an area, not to mention the land owner just to the south said 40+ dead on 300a, 25 dead on neighbors 120a. i guess all the deer in clinton county is in that area. not to mention the owner of the campground told me he has found 9. I love this area and i am sick about what is happening. 17 deer per sq mile that number come from the dnr 2?


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## habitatwizard

Liver and Onions said:


> How does a guy from Houghton Lake know that this is a fact and not just bar talk ? I'm not saying that it couldn't be true, but I bet that not many 1 square mile sections in Clinton County even have(or had) 75 deer.
> 
> L & O


It is not bar talk.well bet all your money that our section use to. I have hunted this area for quite a while and all I can say is we are in trouble.


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## Nocturnal Ghost

Liver and Onions said:


> I'm not saying that it couldn't be true, but I bet that not many 1 square mile sections in Clinton County even have(or had) 75 deer.
> 
> L & O


 A few sections in Clinton County do have that many manly the ones near the Maple. But the DNR manages the whole County like we all have 75 per section


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## Fishnmachine

Found 4, guy down the road is up to 25, Dnr told him they think it will kill about 60% of the deer. This was north east branch county


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## habitatwizard

Fishnmachine said:


> Found 4, guy down the road is up to 25, Dnr told him they think it will kill about 60% of the deer. This was north east branch county


Not many will even buy a tag let alone hunt this year we are hit so bad with ehd. Why hunt when you already know it will hurt the herd for more years to come?


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## soggybtmboys

habitatwizard said:


> Not many will even buy a tag let alone hunt this year we are hit so bad with ehd. Why hunt when you already know it will hurt the herd for more years to come?


Apparently you are not familiar with the NELP, specifically the bTB zone. Tags available, guys will hunt and shoot till there is no deer standing. I would surmise that the MDNR in some cases, in some areas will look at this as an opportunity to finally knock the herd down where they want it and not scale back on antlerless harvesting, and guess what......_*the guys will shoot them.*_

The MDNR will not view this as hurting the herd, especially in DMU's over goal, which is most of the SLP. Hunters did not kill enough, mother nature has stepped in to do some balancing.


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## Nocturnal Ghost

soggybtmboys said:


> The MDNR will not view this as hurting the herd, especially in DMU's over goal, which is most of the SLP.


 They will find out this is not true when their phone rings off the hook for the 3rd straight year.


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## Trout King

mother nature will do what she does...
i hunt ionia co exclusively and i will do what i do...nothing found on my property near belding or portland...yet, but i will still hunt. im still seeing plenty of deer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## me223656

My phone still wont update those dnr numbers. Can someone post the total for ionia and a grand total for michigan please?

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## Liver and Onions

me223656 said:


> My phone still wont update those dnr numbers. Can someone post the total for ionia and a grand total for michigan please?
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Ionia: 394 / 267 / 206 Total 867
Mich. Total 1251


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## MI_Buckhunter

Have anyone heard if EHD has hit north Ingham county or south Clinton? Around Rose Lake or Sleepy Hollow state park area?


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## Fishnmachine

habitatwizard said:


> Not many will even buy a tag let alone hunt this year we are hit so bad with ehd. Why hunt when you already know it will hurt the herd for more years to come?


 
I will still hunt, there are still deer out there, but depending on what I see I may only take one maybe 2 deer for the year, and probobly not any does. It is pretty bad, from people I have takled to I bet for ever reported deer there is at least 10 not reported, there are alot of guys who dont like even talking to the DNR let alone let them on their property.


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## anonymous7242016

Guys I have no idea what the impact will be on deer numbers due to ehd in the harder hit areas but as a hunter those in the area need to think before killing. They did not do that in much of the nlp and now many complain yearly about the hunting. So some of us just might have to change our ways.
Maybe hunt for one big buck....take maybe only one doe...just use your head. If you aren't seeing many deer don't kill the ones you do see and try to pass that along to others. One light harvest year or two and thing will be back to normal, maybe even better. 

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## Ken

It's going to be a hell of a rut, for whatever is left at that time. Bucks will still want to breed the same number of does, and they will be running farther to find them. Less bucks also means less fighting and sparring, but way more chasing.
I've seen bucks in the peak rut just hang out on heavily traveled runways, sometimes even bed down near them, and let the does come to them. Not going to be that way this year.


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## roo

Saw pics on Facebook tonight of a beautiful 10 pt found dead in homer. Getting real close to home.


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## Waz_51

ive been praying for you guys...i see the temps next week are in the low 70's, not good enough but its getting there...i dont wanna get peoples hopes up but i feel like relief is in sight! just keep praying for a positive outcome, its about all you can do! or you could get a bunch of fly traps like Liver and Onions did and be proactive!


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## MI_Buckhunter

I feel horrible for Ionia and gratiot county. A lot of the public land there border the maple river, and that is where it seems the main infestation is at. My buddy has property there and we also hunt a lot of the public land there, he's scared to check his land and face the possible truth. Might have to search out new land and give that area a break to replenish.


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## Fishnmachine

Waz_51 said:


> ive been praying for you guys...i see the temps next week are in the low 70's, not good enough but its getting there...i dont wanna get peoples hopes up but i feel like relief is in sight! just keep praying for a positive outcome, its about all you can do! or you could get a bunch of fly traps like Liver and Onions did and be proactive!


Yeah, kind of a double edge sword with the dry summer, guys who have late beans would not like to see a early frost this year


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## anonymous7242016

Fishnmachine said:


> Yeah, kind of a double edge sword with the dry summer, guys who have late beans would not like to see a early frost this year


I'll take an early frost over beans any day to kill those SOB

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## FISHMANMARK

Everyone I have talked to is taking the same approach. Wait and see. If numbers are down, we will take it easy on the doe kill. The numbers will bounce back in 2-3 years.


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## Bowhunt

You can hardly drive down the road in Southern Calhoun County without smelling rotting deer. It is getting serious.


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## Chuck

I feel bad for you guys who are hunting areas that are badly affected. The area I hunted that was affected was around 07 I think and its just now coming back. 

A friend of in mine Calhoun says they have found more and talking to neighbors they have been finding them too. I would think what ever DNR numbers you could add a lot to those. Farmers arent going to waste time reporting it and they are mostly happy to see them gone.

Has any one found any in the Allegan SGA? Im hoping to get out for a walk on Sunday if its not too hot to take a look.


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## Bowhunt

I spoke to DNR at length and they said they expect only 10% of actuals to get reported.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Liver and Onions

Bowhunt said:


> I spoke to DNR at length and they said they expect only 10% of actuals to get reported.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If that is true with Ionia County having 867 confirmed cases as of Tues(8/21), that county is going to have some very slim pickings this year. I would guess that for whatever reason, Ionia landowners are reporting a much higher percentage of dead deer than other counties. Perhaps the deer herd on Oct. 1st will be similar to 1980 numbers for Ionia County ?
I am one county away from this disaster and can only imagine the disappointment you landowners/hunters must be feeling.

L & O


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## James Dymond

Liver and Onions said:


> 640 is the correct number. Easy to remember if you think that there are 4 square 40s along each mile stretch. 160X4
> 
> L & O


If you look at a plat book they show square mile sections containing from a low of 600 to a high of 672 acres. Probably more differences than that if you check more pages.
Jim


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## Bowhunt

Liver and Onions said:


> If that is true with Ionia County having 867 confirmed cases as of Tues(8/21), that county is going to have some very slim pickings this year. I would guess that for whatever reason, Ionia landowners are reporting a much higher percentage of dead deer than other counties. Perhaps the deer herd on Oct. 1st will be similar to 1980 numbers for Ionia County ?
> I am one county away from this disaster and can only imagine the disappointment you landowners/hunters must be feeling.
> 
> L & O


I agree L&O. As awareness arises that this is affecting them directly, more and more people get out and begin checking and therefore reporting numbers. The percent reported would have to increase. 

The discouraging part is that I spoke last night at our local conversation club specifically about this disease. I left in awe of how few people are really aware of what is going on and the impact. This creates some level of fear as we head into hunting seasons. Obviously, there are a lot of unknowns and uncertainties of the final impact in this area (literally have 6+ wks to go before chance of frost), but if people go into the season with the same harvest expectations and try to execute to something near that level, the long term ramifications will be much more severe. The DNR told me that there would be no restrictions on harvest this year as 1) it is too late and doe licenses are out there, 2) these are "pockets" of disease and it is not impacting at same level regionwide and 3) there would be no way to enforce smaller regions. While many will say the SLP was way over target anyhow on deer numbers, the reality is that it will be up to us hunters and sportsman to act responsibly through this time. It may require us to limit our kill instead of killing our limit.


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## Waz_51

Bowhunt said:


> I agree L&O. As awareness arises that this is affecting them directly, more and more people get out and begin checking and therefore reporting numbers. The percent reported would have to increase.
> 
> The discouraging part is that I spoke last night at our local conversation club specifically about this disease. I left in awe of how few people are really aware of what is going on and the impact. This creates some level of fear as we head into hunting seasons. Obviously, there are a lot of unknowns and uncertainties of the final impact in this area (literally have 6+ wks to go before chance of frost), but if people go into the season with the same harvest expectations and try to execute to something near that level, the long term ramifications will be much more severe. The DNR told me that there would be no restrictions on harvest this year as 1) it is too late and doe licenses are out there, 2) these are "pockets" of disease and it is not impacting at same level regionwide and 3) there would be no way to enforce smaller regions. While many will say the SLP was way over target anyhow on deer numbers, the reality is that it will be up to us hunters and sportsman to act responsibly through this time. It may require us to limit our kill instead of killing our limit.



very well spoken bud...like i said before, im hoping and praying that things get better for you guys...AND SOON!


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## swampbuck

FISHMANMARK said:


> Everyone I have talked to is taking the same approach. Wait and see. If numbers are down, we will take it easy on the doe kill. The numbers will bounce back in 2-3 years.


Based on what has happened in the NLP. I would say you are being pretty optimistic.


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## HUBBHUNTER

swampbuck said:


> Based on what has happened in the NLP. I would say you are being pretty optimistic.


I think he is referencing private land in the SLP. The land owners, if they're not kill off all the deer farmers, will manage their land as they see fit. Laying off the harvest for a couple years on the micro level could make a vast improvement in furture deer numbers. A little Optimistic? Sure, why not? You must be a glass half empty type of guy. 

It's the state land where all the remaining deer will be wiped out becuase many state landers have zero trigger restraint.


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## anonymous7242016

HUBBHUNTER said:


> It's the state land where all the remaining deer will be wiped out becuase many state landers have zero trigger restraint.


 
Yep..........


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## bucknasty11208

swampbuck said:


> Based on what has happened in the NLP. I would say you are being pretty optimistic.


I would have to agree with his optimism. Take into consideration the vast amount of food avaialble, the slightly easier winters, and probably a few less predators, and the population could rebound easily in 2-3 years........as long as hunters aren't slaughtering everything in sight. The deer in the southern 1/2 of the LP go into winter and come out of winter in probably a little better shape than much of the NLP herd allowing for better fawn recrutiment in the sping. When I was up in north 2 weekends ago, I saw very few fawns. In 1 field where we saw appx 35 deer, only 4-5 were fawns, 12-14 bucks, and the rest were big mature does, mostly with no offspring in tow.
Take it from someone who has hunted the NELP for almost 30 years. I've seen the "haydays" and i've been seeing the tough times for the last 10 years or so. Trigger control will be the key in not totaly decimating the herd in the areas where this EHD is hitting the hardest. In the NELP, hunters were given the green light to shoot pretty much any and all does, and we're paying for it now.


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## soggybtmboys

HUBBHUNTER said:


> It's the state land where all the remaining deer will be wiped out becuase many state landers have zero trigger restraint.


Trigger happy aside, the amount of pressure exerted on those tracts of state land will push deer out onto private land where there is less pressure and now room for them. Kind of like when you pull a trout from a hole in a stream, another one will fill his niche.


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## Nocturnal Ghost

HUBBHUNTER said:


> W
> It's the state land where all the remaining deer will be wiped out because many state landers have zero trigger restraint.


You should have No worry about the state land hunters shooting deer in the Maple River game area this year. (or next) You can't even drive the bordering roads it stinks sooooo bad. :help::help:.When the deer do migrate back they will fill in the State land last.


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## hartman756

You guys need to quit worrying.....it aint going to change any thing........the northern area experiances the same thing only it is called winter kill. Have a mild winter plenty of deer a bad winter and the pickens can get slim in areas. A couple of back to back bad winters and you really notice a differance BUT then alongs a mild one and the cycle starts all over. Still deer in in the northern part of the state, Just have to hunt what Ma nature gives you. You guys in the southern half will get used to it and adjust ,as it looks like it is around to stay, just will depend on how bad it is year to year!



c hartman


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## Ken

The DNR is not using their brain if they think they can't change permits at this time. There are a certain number of general land doe permits for each county. Ionia is 1200. Cut all the affected counties unsold permits to ZERO. Simple as that. No extra enforcement needed, cause there won't be general doe, unless they have already been purchased.


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## Nocturnal Ghost

Ken said:


> The DNR is not using their brain if they think they can't change permits at this time. There are a certain number of general land doe permits for each county. Ionia is 1200. Cut all the affected counties unsold permits to ZERO. Simple as that. No extra enforcement needed, cause there won't be general doe, unless they have already been purchased.


 It was asked the other night and they are staying the course.


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## habitatwizard

What is happening out here is so ****ed up I don't even know what to say anymore.


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## habitatwizard

Nocturnal Ghost said:


> You should have No worry about the state land hunters shooting deer in the Maple River game area this year. (or next) You can't even drive the bordering roads it stinks sooooo bad. :help::help:.When the deer do migrate back they will fill in the State land last.


Glad I have central air. I can't even open the windows due to the smell of rotting deer.


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## soggybtmboys

habitatwizard said:


> What is happening out here is so ****ed up I don't even know what to say anymore.


It's called Mother Nature. We have failed to keep numbers in check, Mother Nature steps in and lowers the boom with a disease that is putting the herd into check. 


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## Jigin-N-Grinin

soggybtmboys said:


> It's called Mother Nature. We have failed to keep numbers in check, Mother Nature steps in and lowers the boom with a disease that is putting the herd into check.
> 
> 
> _OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors._


So Mother Nature magically fixes our mistakes.... Really??


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## habitatwizard

If you ask me it is God working his ways to show us we need a republican president.


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## HUBBHUNTER

Jigin-N-Grinin said:


> So Mother Nature magically fixes our mistakes.... Really??


Lots of arm chair quarter backs from the outside looking looking in on this issue. When the stench of rotting carcasses is worse than the neighbouring dairy farm its getting worse than a hard winter in the NLP. It might not be as wide spread as say a UP hard winter die off but many areas are being decimated and guys from the outside looking in are clueless. 

My recommendation to guys in the effected area who are still seeing deer it might be wise to keep that info to yourself because others in your area who aren't as fortunate will be looking for a new spot to hunt this year if you know what I'm saying. 

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## Playin' Hooky

HUBBHUNTER said:


> Smelling pretty bad when I was out mowing plots tonight. Any of you out of town guys saying its not that big a deal...... Wait until the shoe is on the other foot. Until then, stfu!
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Just found a new one (since last check on Monday) in the pond this morning...and there's another one somewhere in the prairie grass. Still smelling the other 4 as well...on 35 acres.


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## HUBBHUNTER

What area are you in Hooky?

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## Playin' Hooky

Dragged the most recent death out of the pond, an older buck with 5+ sticker on one side and a goofy 7+ on the other...he had a damaged rear leg on the other side. In the process scented and found 3 more...fawn and 2 7 pointers.

I believe we have lost most, if not all of the bachelor group that was in the area. I DID see a live doe last night--at the pond!!


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## Ken

Just found out the timber cutters found 40 to 50 on the property they were cutting along the river, and none have been reported. 

Either a flood or an early frost is about the best we can hope for now. Deer with EHD and the risk of west nile in humans! If west nile gets any worse in the future, I wonder if we would see aerial spraying, and that would help with both outbreaks. 

Knowing the state, they will import some damn foreign attack insect that will destroy all the crops or something like that.


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## Playin' Hooky

Ken said:


> Just found out the timber cutters found 40 to 50 on the property they were cutting along the river, and none have been reported.
> 
> Either a flood or an early frost is about the best we can hope for now. Deer with EHD and the risk of west nile in humans! If west nile gets any worse in the future, I wonder if we would see aerial spraying, and that would help with both outbreaks.
> 
> Knowing the state, they will import some damn foreign attack insect that will destroy all the crops or something like that.


Very sorry to hear that Ken!

I thought the 3"+ of rain we got 2 weeks ago would help. The deer I found recently had died within the last week or so. I don't think we'll see the end of this until a frost...and there may be very little left around us by then.

I don't think MI will go back to aerial spraying on a widespread basis. Like Munster commented on a different thread, these outbreaks affect very small overall numbers of the herd and, while devastating to us in the local area where it's happening, will not have a large statistical significance statewide.

With respect to West Nile, the media is hyping this like crazy, but remember that the 1100 or so cases and 41 deaths may be a high number for that disease, but for a population in the US of over 300 million...it's really insignificant. (I think more people have died in traffic accidents while I typed this unfortunately) If you are one of the persons affected--it is a HUGE deal, but not so on a population scale.

I would be even MORE surprised if MI brought in some sort of exotic species to control midges and mosquitoes. Dragonflies and everything else here already is best evolved to deal with them.


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## Playin' Hooky

Found #7 on the property this evening...another 1.5 yo buck looked to have died a week or more ago.


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## Pumpkinhead

Are you in Clinton County?


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## Buck Wild!

co-worker #1- "took my two sons fishing on the Maple River...it stunk bad down there. I saw the saddest thing I've ever seen. My son said 'Dad look...a deer.' When I looked toward the riverbank I saw a doe. She was neck deep lying in the water. She would attempt to stand, only with her back legs. She finally stood on all fours, walked out toward the middle of the river and we slowly watched her disappear under the water. We found another 12 deer dead on the riverbank that day."

co-worker #2- "My Grandpa owns a large chunk of farmland that abuts the Maple River and he told me that he found 36 deer lying dead on his property this week alone." 

I know that Mike (co-worker #1) did in fact report his sighting(s) to the MDNR. Not sure about my other buddies Grandpa.


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## Waz_51

wow...:sad:


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## habitatwizard

Not sure how this area is gonna replenish our deer numbers with michigan hunting regs that already eradicates the deer herd. It is a joke that will always be.pure michigan


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## drenalin

Im in southern Ionia county and have not seen any dead deer or heard of any EHD outbreaks in my neck of the woods. Im hoping they will stay in an isolated area.


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## Liver and Onions

drenalin said:


> Im in southern Ionia county and have not seen any dead deer or heard of any EHD outbreaks in my neck of the woods. ............/QUOTE]
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/images/emergingdiseases/EHD_2012_Reports_map_394528_7.jpg
> 
> Here is the map from last week. 2 of the 4 Southern Ionia townships highlighted. Looks like 12 of the 16 townships have reported cases. You can't be too far from the problem.
> 
> L & O


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## me223656

Can someone post the most recent numbers from today?

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## NovemberWhitetailz

me223656 said:


> Can someone post the most recent numbers from today?
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


You can check this website but it won't be updated untill later tonight or tomorrow.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_12150-283966--,00.html

I have spoken to a local DNR officer and he advised me that the #'s being reported are probably only 10% of the actual deaths.


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## Liver and Onions

The new numbers are posted now.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_12150-283966--,00.html

The new map:

http://www.michigan.gov/images/emergingdiseases/EHD_2012_Reports_map_394528_7.jpg

To the guys in Ionia county, A couple of members have said that a DNR person has told them that they expect about 1 out of 10 dead deer are reported. With over 1,100 reported in Ionia County, 11,000 dead deer seems almost unbelievable. Your thoughts ? Possibly Ionia county is doing a much better job of reporting dead deer than expected ?

L & O


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## HUBBHUNTER

Liver and Onions said:


> The new numbers are posted now.
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_12150-283966--,00.html
> 
> The new map:
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/images/emergingdiseases/EHD_2012_Reports_map_394528_7.jpg
> 
> L & O


These #'s are not accurate. 




I'm not trying to shoot the messenger here.


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## Liver and Onions

HUBBHUNTER said:


> These #'s are not accurate.
> .........


We all know that only a certain percentage will be found and out of that only a certain percentage will be reported. Is that what you mean, or do you mean that the charts put out this week showing the number of REPORTED cases has errors ?


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## Munsterlndr

HUBBHUNTER said:


> These #'s are not accurate.


I would say that the numbers are accurate but not comprehensive, meaning they accurately reflect the numbers and locations of deer that have been reported to the DNR but that those reported only reflect a portion of the overall number of deer that have died from EHD. Is that what you meant?


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## November Sunrise

Liver and Onions said:


> The new numbers are posted now.
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_12150-283966--,00.html
> 
> The new map:
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/images/emergingdiseases/EHD_2012_Reports_map_394528_7.jpg
> 
> To the guys in Ionia county, A couple of members have said that a DNR person has told them that they expect about 1 out of 10 dead deer are reported. With over 1,100 reported in Ionia County, 11,000 dead deer seems almost unbelievable. Your thoughts ? Possibly Ionia county is doing a much better job of reporting dead deer than expected ?
> 
> L & O


I would be shocked if any qualified DNR spokesperson made a guess on the percentage of dead deer that are being reported. There's not a metric in place that could begin to create a formula which would accurately indicate for every deer found we believe there are x number more unfound.


----------



## Nocturnal Ghost

The big problem I see is down the road in Clinton county's is the deer numbers were at their lowest amount in my hunting career execpt for these tributaries that are being hit now. Where are the deer going to come from to replenish these miles of river bottom and keep a hunt able number of deer on the high lands?


----------



## FISHMANMARK

November Sunrise said:


> I would be shocked if any qualified DNR spokesperson made a guess on the percentage of dead deer that are being reported. There's not a metric in place that could begin to create a formula which would accurately indicate for every deer found we believe there are x number more unfound.


I don't think they said it was a "qualified" DNR spokesman.

I think their point was that the "real" numbers are far higher than the reported numbers.


----------



## Nocturnal Ghost

November Sunrise said:


> I would be shocked if any qualified DNR spokesperson made a guess on the percentage of dead deer that are being reported. There's not a metric in place that could begin to create a formula which would accurately indicate for every deer found we believe there are x number more unfound.


 When this is over they will put a multiplier to the reported number. I heard this right out of the mouth of our state biologist and they have done the same with all prior outbreaks too.


----------



## HUBBHUNTER

November Sunrise said:


> I would be shocked if any qualified DNR spokesperson made a guess on the percentage of dead deer that are being reported. There's not a metric in place that could begin to create a formula which would accurately indicate for every deer found we believe there are x number more unfound.


Yes, Munster and L&O, you guys know what I meant.

Is it true that only 1 out of every 10 deer found is being reported, we will never know because that can never be confirmed for obvious logistical reasons. The DNR goes by what is reported, most know there are less dead deer being reported than found, while most are never found and the DNR can only go on the information provided. The reason I said the numbers were not accurate is that far too many people take the information that the DNR puts out as fact. There are many people out there that think that even with it being localized cases (large areas) that the EHD breakout is nothing to worry. When new dead deer are being found everyday, they stop showing up on cams and out in the fields and whole sections smelling like death it is something to be concerned about. 

I'm not slamming the DNR because they're limited in resources and information but its irritating when they post such bogus numbers because far too many will believe it.


----------



## November Sunrise

Nocturnal Ghost said:


> When this is over they will put a multiplier to the reported number. I heard this right out of the mouth of our state biologist and they have done the same with all prior outbreaks too.


That's nice. As long as no one labors under the illusion that a "state biologist", or anyone else for that matter, has anything but even a wild guess of what the multiplier actually should be. Let alone the fact that no one knows how many many deer there were to start with inside an affected area. 

Anyone who is seeking some level of either comfort or confirmation from reported (highly understated) or estimated (wild guess) numbers is a little naive.


----------



## NovemberWhitetailz

Liver and Onions said:


> The new numbers are posted now.
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_12150-283966--,00.html
> 
> The new map:
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/images/emergingdiseases/EHD_2012_Reports_map_394528_7.jpg
> 
> To the guys in Ionia county, A couple of members have said that a DNR person has told them that they expect about 1 out of 10 dead deer are reported. With over 1,100 reported in Ionia County, 11,000 dead deer seems almost unbelievable. Your thoughts ? Possibly Ionia county is doing a much better job of reporting dead deer than expected ?
> 
> L & O


No, not a couple members. I'm the only member that has said this because I am the one who spoke to the DNR officer in person!!!


----------



## Ken

Liver and Onions said:


> The new numbers are posted now.
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_12150-283966--,00.html
> 
> The new map:
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/images/emergingdiseases/EHD_2012_Reports_map_394528_7.jpg
> 
> To the guys in Ionia county, A couple of members have said that a DNR person has told them that they expect about 1 out of 10 dead deer are reported. With over 1,100 reported in Ionia County, 11,000 dead deer seems almost unbelievable. Your thoughts ? Possibly Ionia county is doing a much better job of reporting dead deer than expected ?
> 
> L & O


If it is nearing 11,000, it is just over the annual hunting kill. Certainly possible, but I doubt it's that high yet. Maybe 6 or 7 times the reported, but 10 is doubtful.


----------



## HUBBHUNTER

Ken said:


> If it is nearing 11,000, it is just over the annual hunting kill. Certainly possible, but I doubt it's that high yet. Maybe 6 or 7 times the reported, but 10 is doubtful.


This goll darn midge is killing my buck before I get the chance, just like the stupid youth season.


----------



## Playin' Hooky

Pumpkinhead said:


> Are you in Clinton County?


NW Clinton Co., Lebanon Twp...about a mile from the Maple R.


----------



## Playin' Hooky

HUBBHUNTER said:


> This goll darn midge is killing my buck before I get the chance, just like the stupid youth season.


Now Hubb, if'n we practiced real hard, I reckon we could shoot the eyes outta them there midges and save our deer herd!

Daniel Boone had his rifle "Tick Licker", I'm gonna call mine "Midge masher"!


----------



## Outdoorsman17

I feel for every single hunter in the effected area's:sad:
I also can't stand stand what some other posters think or say because "they" are not effected. Put shoe on the other foot and tell me how you would feel:sad:


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## Liver and Onions

HUBBHUNTER2 said:


> No, not a couple members. I'm the only member that has said this because I am the one who spoke to the DNR officer in person!!!


On page 6, post # 81 Bowhunt said the same thing. 

L & O


----------



## NovemberWhitetailz

Then it must be fact! We're all doomed!


----------



## Playin' Hooky

Outdoorsman17 said:


> I feel for every single hunter in the effected area's:sad:
> I also can't stand stand what some other posters think or say because "they" are not effected. Put shoe on the other foot and tell me how you would feel:sad:


Their feet would REALLY hurt if they had to walk the miles in our moccasins to find a LIVE deer around here!

I do NOT wish this on ANYONE else out there!


----------



## drenalin

A simmilar outbreak happend in the summer of 2011 along the milk River in Montana and nearly decimated the whitetail population. Here is a link: http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2012/01/08/ehd-hits-northern-plains/


----------



## Liver and Onions

drenalin said:


> A simmilar outbreak happend in the summer of 2011 along the milk River in Montana and nearly decimated the whitetail population. Here is a link: http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2012/01/08/ehd-hits-northern-plains/


Damn, over 90%.
Thanks for the link.


----------



## drenalin

keep your stick on the ice, were all in this together.


----------



## Fishnmachine

This sucks, I am not even looking forward to going to hang more stands in a week or two. The DNR did contact me saying that someone will call me to go see and take a sample from the deer I found, but they have not called yet? I am new to this phone thing but I think I attached a pic of one, sucks








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## anonymous7242016

Man this sucks..........you Ionia boys are really in the middle of the worst. I notice it creeping closer my way........not even a drop in the bucket compared to Ionia but none the less a scary thing. 
L&O you got any reports on where they are finding it in Montcalm?
I looked at the townships not yet in mine but right next door.
Looking for some more exact locations.
I'll be making a trip to the property this weekend. Going to search the creek bottoms and ponds.
What a horrible thing for any hunter to ever have to deal with.
O17 you are correct.........put the shoe on the other foot and see how one feels.


----------



## habitatwizard

bucksnbows said:


> Man this sucks..........you Ionia boys are really in the middle of the worst. I notice it creeping closer my way........not even a drop in the bucket compared to Ionia but none the less a scary thing.
> L&O you got any reports on where they are finding it in Montcalm?
> I looked at the townships not yet in mine but right next door.
> Looking for some more exact locations.
> I'll be making a trip to the property this weekend. Going to search the creek bottoms and ponds.
> What a horrible thing for any hunter to ever have to deal with.
> O17 you are correct.........put the shoe on the other foot and see how one feels.


You are screwed also bucksnbows, I know where you hunt and its not far from me. We need to ultimately draw bucks for miles right now.


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## anonymous7242016

habitatwizard said:


> You are screwed also bucksnbows, I know where you hunt and its not far from me. We need to ultimately draw bucks for miles right now.


 
Where do you hunt?
PM me if ya don't want to post here.
As of 2 weeks ago I had watched the same group of bucks that I have been watching. Been seeing over 40 deer every visit and have not smelled or found any dead deer. 
Not saying things are good to go, but so far nothing found personally. 
Going to call the neighbor in a minute to find out what he has heard.


----------



## Playin' Hooky

HUBBHUNTER2 said:


> You need someone to split the gas bill


I'll have the $$ from the 3 antlerless tags I don't need...


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## anonymous7242016

HUBBHUNTER2 said:


> It's closer for us to go to Ohio. I do however have several trail cam pictures from Leelanau Co this year of bucks that i'd consider HUGE bucks. But i'm not telling where


 
Ya. The amount of time it would take me to drive to Leelanau an extra hour drive south of home hear and I am in south east Ohio. 
Might even consider Wisconsin. I have an open invite to a big woods tent camp style hunting. My buddy shot a nice 10 point 3 years ago in the area they hunt. 
I'm leaning towards Ohio.
Plus I can get to some Ohio public land in less than two hours from home. Suprised I haven't done that yet:yikes:
I will think about a late season hunt in Leelanau..........Chistmas time. That would be a cool hunt, especially if there is snow on the ground.
How close can I hunt from the casino........


----------



## anonymous7242016

Playin' Hooky said:


> I'll have the $$ from the 3 antlerless tags I don't need...


You know there is already a group of MSers who have hit up Ohio a couple of times together........maybe the makings of a big MS invades Ohio yearly bow camp hunt could be in the makings. 
Starts yearly in March


----------



## FISHMANMARK

I guess, I'll work on thinning out the squirrel population this year. Heck, I'll probably even buy a fall turkey tag.


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## HUBBHUNTER

Confirmed in Sydney township, Montcalm County. I just baught my turkey and small game tags.

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## anonymous7242016

HUBBHUNTER said:


> Confirmed in Sydney township, Montcalm County. I just baught my turkey and small game tags.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


They confirmed Sydney township 2 weeks ago when Montcalm was at a 3 count. 
Is this another find? 

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## HUBBHUNTER

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----------



## HUBBHUNTER

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## anonymous7242016

I don't know how many frosts or what not it takes to kill these bugs but on average the first frost for these areas is around September 20 give or take a day or two.


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## Waz_51

HUBBHUNTER said:


> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


hey bud, i dont think that youre supposed to be in possession of those antlers! i could be way wrong but i tend to be pretty cautious about that stuff...


----------



## FISHMANMARK

He's not in possession of them.


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## Waz_51

:16suspect ...theyre on the bed of his truck! :lol:


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## smith34

FISHMANMARK said:


> I guess, I'll work on thinning out the squirrel population this year. Heck, I'll probably even buy a fall turkey tag.


I'll be aiming for fat 'yotes!


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## FISHMANMARK

Waz_51 said:


> :16suspect ...theyre on the bed of his truck! :lol:


 
I can say without a doubt they are not on the bed of his truck.:lol:


----------



## HUBBHUNTER

Waz_51 said:


> hey bud, i dont think that youre supposed to be in possession of those antlers! i could be way wrong but i tend to be pretty cautious about that stuff...


Just a picture that was sent to me. I was in no way shape or form involved in finding or handling that rack.


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## casscityalum

Waz_51 said:


> :16suspect ...theyre on the bed of his truck! :lol:


How do you know its his truck? were you there? I know its deer forum but I always try and keep to the rules of the fishing forums about questioning ones photos 

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----------



## anonymous7242016

First off keep the thread on track. A picture doesn't tell the whole story.
Besides if was one of the Hubb boys the truck would of had bush light cans piling out of it. LOL.

When was that deer found Hubb?
The dnr map had Sidney township marked 2 weeks ago.


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----------



## NovemberWhitetailz

bucksnbows said:


> First off keep the thread on track. A picture doesn't tell the whole story.
> Besides if was one of the Hubb boys the truck would of had bush light cans piling out of it. LOL.
> 
> When was that deer found Hubb?
> The dnr map had Sidney township marked 2 weeks ago.
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


It was found 2 days ago and confirmed by the DNR that the cause of death was EHD. Stated, it was less than a week old. Not sure if that's confirmed through trail cam or personal sightings or if that was the DNR's guess.

And it's Busch light......... You must drink that snobby Bud light stuff :lol:


----------



## Ken

Might as well look for skulls and antlers....that's will be the most bucks seen in some areas this year. 

At what point do they become sheds? No different than going out in the winter and finding drops, in my mind. It's purely rediculous that it would be a violation to possess or recover any part of a skeleton remains.


----------



## anonymous7242016

HUBBHUNTER2 said:


> It was found 2 days ago and confirmed by the DNR that the cause of death was EHD. Stated, it was less than a week old. Not sure if that's confirmed through trail cam or personal sightings or if that was the DNR's guess.
> 
> And it's Busch light......... You must drink that snobby Bud light stuff :lol:


 
oops....bad spelling.
I'm a molson or labatte man.........its a hockey thing:lol:

Ocasionally I'll splurge on some Amstel Light or Heineken. Some times a dark beer........I like a dark beer with a nice steak.


----------



## hoyt03

Guy here at work floated the KZoo river this weekend...lots of dead deer laying on the banks...this was down from M89...they talked to a boater that was coming from way down, he found at least 40 dead deer..:sad:


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## Chuck

hoyt3 that sucks that area was just starting to come back after 07 when they found 300 or more dead. Guess river bottom hunting will be out again.

Hopefully your friend will report these numbers to the DNR. Thankfully they did lower the doe tags for public in Allegan this year. 

I did check other areas I hunt this last weekend and didnt find or smell anything yet. Lets hope for a early frost.


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## Chuck

Is the DNR going to still report numbers every Tuesday? I looked but didnt see a updated chart.


----------



## Liver and Onions

Chuck said:


> Is the DNR going to still report numbers every Tuesday? I looked but didnt see a updated chart.


Since Monday was Labor Day, I am thinking it might be out late this afternoon. Last week it was late Tuesday afternoon when it showed up on the DNR site.

L & O


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## HUBBHUNTER

Chuck said:


> Is the DNR going to still report numbers every Tuesday? I looked but didnt see a updated chart.


Here are the actual reported numbers. Not actual number of deaths.

COUNTIES
08/07/2012
08/14/2012
08/21/2012
08/28/2012
TOTAL
Allegan
0
0
1
35
36
Barry
0
3
13
25
41
Berrien
0
0
0
1
1
Branch
78
130
9
8
225
Calhoun
3
17
48
33
101
Cass
1
0
9
1
11
Clinton
18
12
26
97
153
Eaton
0
1
1
1
3
Gratiot
0
0
1
58
59
Ionia
394
267
206
236
1103
Jackson
0
0
3
2
5
Kent
0
1
2
6
9
Montcalm
1
2
1
2
6
Muskegon
0
0
1
0
1
Ottawa
0
0
0
1
1
Shiawassee
0
0
1
0
1
St. Joseph
1
0
0
5
6
TOTAL
496
433
322
511
1762​


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## BwHunter85

Pulled out of lake yesterday, Barry Co.

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----------



## anonymous7242016

If anybody here goes to the meeting in Union City ask a question for me/us.

Ask what percent of the total reported is of the total kill.

Also ask if this could become a deciding factor in management in the harder hit areas.

I read on the site here that someone was told the total reported is about 10% of the actual kill. I think that may be a bit high. If it is accurate we are looking at 17000+ deer killed already with a good month or so left before we are in the clear. That is a lot of deer.


----------



## billmitch

I don't know much about this so please forgive my ignorance, but how is this disease spread? Through the Midge, or are deer spreading it further through contact?


----------



## HUBBHUNTER

billmitch said:


> I don't know much about this so please forgive my ignorance, but how is this disease spread? Through the Midge, or are deer spreading it further through contact?


Through the Midge biting a deer. EHD cannot be transmitted from deer to deer. EHD is also not transmittable to humans, that is until a human dies from it.


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## buddydog7303

I hunt Clinton County, Olive Township and was getting 150 to 200 pics per week on trail cam. Last week I had 0. Have not found any dead yet but I fear the worst!


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## anonymous7242016

buddydog7303 said:


> I hunt Clinton County, Olive Township and was getting 150 to 200 pics per week on trail cam. Last week I had 0. Have not found any dead yet but I fear the worst!


 
Probably not good......but being optimistic........things are starting to change in the deer's world. 
Food is changing so travel may change. Bucks are losing velvet and that changes up their patterns a bit.
I don't have any cameras out, but I did notice a change in the deer sightings recently. I also have not found any dead deer. 
So keep positive........


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## smith34

for anyone else in the Clinton/Ionia County, there's going to be a meeting at the Fowler Conservation Club (just south of Fowler on Wright Rd) on Sept 30th. I don't have the specifics because the wife tossed the paper out on me today!  Big T will be there, so hopefully he can shed some light on the details before he goes AWOL and becomes a mountain man! Seems like an afternoon event.

found the info online..... http://www.qdma.com/events/michigans-clinton-ionia-branch-educational-seminar-cookout


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## sniper22mag

Was down on the Muskegon river by us 31 where it crosses the flats. Found 4 dead deer all on or near the rivers edge. Notified the dnr through email. They sent a confermation back that they where notifing the nearest. Field office. All deer where with in 1 mile stretch on the river.


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## Jay2424

I am a traveling therapist and drive 200 miles daily thru out ingham, eaton, clinton and jackson county and a avid hunter, I fear the worst because I'm telling you guys fields that usually are full and roads and highways that have road kill on a regular basis have been bare, the last month and a half I have not seen one deer, this is traveling though prime deer habitat that normally I would see 30 or more deer daily ....A lot of people are totally unaware of whats going on but, I think you can double or triple the DNR numbers.....


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## BuckFeverLodge

I organized the meeting next Monday in Union City and I will ask any questions you would like, simply send me a PM on here with your question and I will discuss it with the biologist Ken Kesson. I plan on posting notes from the meeting on MS for information sharing.

Jay2424 made a good statement in saying that a lot of people are totally unaware of what's going on, thus one reason why our QDMA branch is hosting the meeting.


----------



## plugger

sniper22mag said:


> Was down on the Muskegon river by us 31 where it crosses the flats. Found 4 dead deer all on or near the rivers edge. Notified the dnr through email. They sent a confermation back that they where notifing the nearest. Field office. All deer where with in 1 mile stretch on the river.


 If this is ehd muskegon is farther north than I heard of before.


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## TJD

Found the first one on our property. Also saw buzzards circling above the neighbor's property. That can't be good. Pic not for the squeamish..


----------



## riverman

Jay2424 said:


> I am a traveling therapist and drive 200 miles daily thru out ingham, eaton, clinton and jackson county and a avid hunter, I fear the worst because I'm telling you guys fields that usually are full and roads and highways that have road kill on a regular basis have been bare, the last month and a half I have not seen one deer, this is traveling though prime deer habitat that normally I would see 30 or more deer daily ....A lot of people are totally unaware of whats going on but, I think you can double or triple the DNR numbers.....


One reason you are not seeing the deer right now is the mast crop is dropping early.


----------



## TJD

Also, I've been trying to call the Flat River field office number listed on the DNR page to report EHD and got a busy signal calling several times periodically for 2.5hours yesterday evening and a busy signal again this morning. I'm not sure if they are getting a huge number of calls or what?


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## FISHMANMARK

Hey Smith34... got our rye planted last night. 13 deer came into the plots just as we finished, we still have a few running around.

A couple other things... no one I know is calling in any new deer found. I'm guessing we are going to see a drop in reported dead deer.

I did a fair amount driving around last weekend. Look at the sky, lots of buzzards circling. A dead deer is in the middle of the mill pond in Hubbardston, I'm surprised there isn't more.


----------



## BwHunter85

Hopefully they won't get EHD.


----------



## Outdoorsman17

There's two ponds directly to the west of. The vultures are flying all the time over this area, I'm scared to walk over there and investigate as it's private property. I don't want to be accused of being a low life **** hunter. This is Saginaw county most south western side. What should I do?


----------



## [email protected]

Outdoorsman17 said:


> There's two ponds directly to the west of. The vultures are flying all the time over this area, I'm scared to walk over there and investigate as it's private property. I don't want to be accused of being a low life **** hunter. This is Saginaw county most south western side. What should I do?


Get permission from land owner n go look. Post what u find out. Shrubby

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----------



## REEDRELLIK

Found one in Seeley Creek in Kent county today. Looks pretty fresh. 


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----------



## Playin' Hooky

smith34 said:


> he doesn't know it yet, but while he's at work, a few of us are going to tranquilize them and move them over to Ionia County! :SHOCKED:


:lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Playin' Hooky

HUBBHUNTER said:


> In July we had 3 shooters on cam, last check we had zero. With deer changing patterns maybe that doesn't mean its EHD. What I'm worried about is watching a field tonight that in July had 15+ deer each night had one tonight. Just wait fellas to north, its coming for for you.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor informa tion engine


3 dead along Fish Creek north of Jenks.

Hunting area #2 is toast...


----------



## Waz_51

Outdoorsman17 said:


> There's two ponds directly to the west of. The vultures are flying all the time over this area, I'm scared to walk over there and investigate as it's private property. I don't want to be accused of being a low life **** hunter. This is Saginaw county most south western side. What should I do?


ohh noooo...im praying that its not here...


----------



## Waz_51

i know its of no condolence to you guys but theres a frost warning for Montmorency, Crawford, and Oscoda counties tonight...its getting closer!


----------



## BuckFeverLodge

*Reminder, if you're in the Branch County area:*

The QDMA Michiana Branch will be hosting a public educational event on September 10, 2012 regarding education of epizootic hemorrhagic disease (EHD). 

Location: Union City High School Field House
Address: 430 St. Joseph Street, Union City, MI
Time: 7:00-9:00pm
Contact: Branch President Steve Casselman

This disease(EHD) has impacted the Branch county and Calhoun county areas severely, along with surrounding areas. 

The QDMA Michiana branch has scheduled Michigan DNR Biologist Ken Kesson to speak and present for this eduational event. Ken will give a 45 minute powerpoint presentation with plenty of pictures and information to educate the public on this recent outbreak. There will be a question and answer session following the presentation. Please spread the word to all interested parties about this event. The QDMA welcomes the public to an evening of learning and education about an epidemic that is not uncommon, but has certainly been a shock to our area.


----------



## anonymous7242016

BuckFeverLodge said:


> *Reminder, if you're in the Branch County area:*
> 
> The QDMA Michiana Branch will be hosting a public educational event on September 10, 2012 regarding education of epizootic hemorrhagic disease (EHD).
> 
> Location: Union City High School Field House
> Address: 430 St. Joseph Street, Union City, MI
> Time: 7:00-9:00pm
> Contact: Branch President Steve Casselman
> 
> This disease(EHD) has impacted the Branch county and Calhoun county areas severely, along with surrounding areas.
> 
> The QDMA Michiana branch has scheduled Michigan DNR Biologist Ken Kesson to speak and present for this eduational event. Ken will give a 45 minute powerpoint presentation with plenty of pictures and information to educate the public on this recent outbreak. There will be a question and answer session following the presentation. Please spread the word to all interested parties about this event. The QDMA welcomes the public to an evening of learning and education about an epidemic that is not uncommon, but has certainly been a shock to our area.


Please post the info learned at the meeting. 

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----------



## BuckFeverLodge

bucksnbows said:


> Please post the info learned at the meeting.


Will do.


----------



## Fishnmachine

No new dead on my spot ne branch county, even saw a live one, but I think numbers took a big hit that we may never know how bad. 

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----------



## FISHMANMARK

Playin' Hooky said:


> 3 dead along Fish Creek north of Jenks.
> 
> Hunting area #2 is toast...


 
Whose property are you on? That's a 1/4 mile from my house.

Fish creek from Sloan rd to Senator rd, no dead deer.


----------



## jtwoodsman

walked our spot in Tekonsha yesterday. Found no dead deer and smelled nothin. Wind was comin right out of the swamp. Farmer said they had found 8 on the south side, but we ran out of time and never made it there. Although we found nothing the deer sign in the woods was slim to none. Very few tracks and grown up trails. I live in Burlington on the St Joe river and have walked up and down it several times in the past few weeks and found nothin. there is good sign on river banks. Might have to just hunt behind house this year.


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## Pumpkinhead

Brother in Calhoun County says he just found an 8pt and a big 10 dead by the river. Neighbor across the river found a very large 9pt as well. In the last week, ZERO pictures of the regular bucks he has been seeing all summer. TONS of vultures everywhere.... he is bummed. Says his property is going to be hurting for years.


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## NovemberWhitetailz

Found out by Mckenna/behan rd. Farmer said he's found 8 deer in the ditch bank next to our swamp.


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## smith34

HUBBHUNTER2 said:


> Found out by Mckenna/behan rd. Farmer said he's found 8 deer in the ditch bank next to our swamp.


That explains where he went! Sad. Tracks and sightings are dropping each week.

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## Bowhunt

Found 8 tonight. 4 bucks and 4 does. Biggest was mainframe 10 with two kickers.


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## hunterrep

Bowhunt said:


> Found 8 tonight. 4 bucks and 4 does. Biggest was mainframe 10 with two kickers.


 
Very sorry to hear that BH, what is your location?


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## hunterrep

I noticed there were 54 reported in Hillsdale county at last report. Heard a rumor they were found (not sure if it was all) in the Hog Creek area just south of Allen. Anybody have any solid information, that is getting close to home for one of my farms that I have been getting fewer and fewer pictures on.


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## plugger

Bobbbert said:


> I think one of the problems that are going to happen is that people are going to be worried that with such a reduced deer heard, that they are going to need to shoot the first and as many deer as they can because they are afraid they won't be able to fill their tags otherwise.
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


 Thats exactly what happened in many areas of the nlp. once deer get below a certain point it seems to take forever for the to repopulate.


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## pipe dream

Sounds like ottawa county is starting to see a few cases as well. Talked to a DNR officer tonight and said that a couple deer are being found around the Allendale/grand valley area. Had a neighbor just south of us that had a sick doe standing in his pond yesterday. He walked up close to her and she didn't pay him much attention. She finally walked off slowly into the bushes. Due to dry summer there is very little water around except for the ponds. Guess I will have to keep an eye on the ponds and see what happens.


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## billmitch

Can anyone explain why this seems to have affected primarily the western part of the state? Why no reports in Oakland, Macomb and the rest of the southeastern part of the state?


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## Playin' Hooky

HUBBHUNTER said:


> Don't worry, its a non issue.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Hubb--let it go man! They don't feel our pain!

Let it roll off your back like water off a duck...


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## Playin' Hooky

Outdoorsman17 said:


> Absolutely sickening. As another poster pointed out in another thread the DNR had time to adjust the antler less permits according to what has already been reported. Why not make the almighty dollar today and worry about about tomorrow next year:sad: One poster even goes so far to say this has little effect overall. How would you like it if it was in your back yard?


So, if you had put in for a public land antlerless tag for Clinton Co and the DNR chops the quota, you don't get drawn--yet you hunt Sleepy Hollow SP where there are not issues with population...you got shafted. A guy who hunts Maple River SGA is happy to get his tag, shows up the day before the opener, sees 0 deer and is pissed the DNR allowed him to buy a tag for an area there are no deer. Can either hunter be happy with the DNR's decision to slash/not slash antlerless tags?

You apply by COUNTY DMU for public land or 486 for private land. Is it too much to expect a hunter to be aware of the current population conditions and make appropriate decisions? Or does the gummint have to hold your hand and stop you from making a decision that costs you $15 and wasted time. HUNTERS ARE THE MANAGERS OF GAME BY HOW THEY ELECT TO CONTROL THEIR TRIGGER FINGER. Some can't be entrusted with the responsibilty, but there is not an appropriate system to control each person without everyone screaming "Big Gov't" or infringement of their freedoms.

And yes--I am one of those who has seen the deer pop plummet "in my backyard" and no longer sees deer. It IS AN ISSUE HERE! I think my habitat is pretty darned good--WSGs, conifer planting, CSGs, shrubs, food plots, row crops and alfalfa all around and a pond...that damned pond! If there were deer here they'd have crossed the bare dirt tilled 2.5 weeks ago..still waiting for a track. But I don't want the DNR to NOT sell me an antlerless tag for this county or the 486 hunt because I can drive 10-15 miles away from the "hot zone" and the deer are still crawling all over the place. I'll make my harvest decisions based on my understanding of the local conditions and act in the best interest of the herd and habitat--as I have in the past when the deer numbers were high.


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## Bobbbert

What about the people that normally hunt where the ehd has had a huge impact on the heard and go hunt another area, therefore putting more pressure on a herd that usually doesn't. The fair thing I would like to see is reduce the numbers of tags one can get so you don't have people saying, well there are no deer in my area, I'm going to go fill my 5 tags somewhere else. 


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## Fishnmachine

I think I may buy my 5 tags a day to the max allowed and deposit them in the trash in hopes 489 sells out, people need to show some restraint this year, having 30 dead 1/2 mile away and finding 4 without looking on my spot is not good 

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## Chuck

I dont think humans for the most part are capable of trigger control. There are some who will but modern man as a whole is a different creature. Our population does not eb and flow based on game availability. 

I have been after the Biologist in AGSA to lower doe tags for 10 years now. Its been a while since I have shot a doe but I get a doe tag for the ASGA every year. This year they finally have lowered it but how does it matter when there are unlimited tags on private? Some of the worst places to hunt in the ASGA is next to private land as these areas are shot out and yet guys continue to shoot as many does as they can. Course they think they are doing the right thing.

So while some seem to think we as hunters are capable of managing the herd our selfs, to that I say why do we have a license at all? Why not send the DNR 50 bucks a year and we shoot what we see fit in our hunting areas? Course thats not much different than what we have now. I still think having a unit that covers an area the size of 486 is way to huge.

The DNR doesnt want to raise the price of a license as every time they do they get tons of backlash so they are making up for it selling tons of doe tags. This EHD thing has changed my mind temporarily about buying property and has made me rethink what I would buy. It would suck to buy some land and then have this happen after you invest all kinds of time and money to improve it. Areas that are hit hard it will take years for it to recover. 

Talk to guys in Cass in and Berrien and see what they say. HEar how the DNR just ignored them when they would call in dead deer. HEar how many dont get reported as the farmers start to take the corn off. I know a few farmers in Berrien and they were happy as hell for every deer they found. Deer are rats to them. Your not gonna call the DNR when you find a dead rat are you?


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## Hulk

Chuck said:


> I dont think humans for the most part are capable of trigger control. There are some who will but modern man as a whole is a different creature. Our population does not eb and flow based on game availability.
> 
> I have been after the Biologist in AGSA to lower doe tags for 10 years now. Its been a while since I have shot a doe but I get a doe tag for the ASGA every year. This year they finally have lowered it but how does it matter when there are unlimited tags on private? Some of the worst places to hunt in the ASGA is next to private land as these areas are shot out and yet guys continue to shoot as many does as they can. Course they think they are doing the right thing.
> 
> So while some seem to think we as hunters are capable of managing the herd our selfs, to that I say why do we have a license at all? Why not send the DNR 50 bucks a year and we shoot what we see fit in our hunting areas? Course thats not much different than what we have now. I still think having a unit that covers an area the size of 486 is way to huge.
> 
> The DNR doesnt want to raise the price of a license as every time they do they get tons of backlash so they are making up for it selling tons of doe tags. This EHD thing has changed my mind temporarily about buying property and has made me rethink what I would buy. It would suck to buy some land and then have this happen after you invest all kinds of time and money to improve it. Areas that are hit hard it will take years for it to recover.
> 
> Talk to guys in Cass in and Berrien and see what they say. HEar how the DNR just ignored them when they would call in dead deer. HEar how many dont get reported as the farmers start to take the corn off. I know a few farmers in Berrien and they were happy as hell for every deer they found. Deer are rats to them. Your not gonna call the DNR when you find a dead rat are you?


Sad but true!


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## sniper22mag

Chuck said:


> I dont think humans for the most part are capable of trigger control. There are some who will but modern man as a whole is a different creature. Our population does not eb and flow based on game availability.
> 
> I have been after the Biologist in AGSA to lower doe tags for 10 years now. Its been a while since I have shot a doe but I get a doe tag for the ASGA every year. This year they finally have lowered it but how does it matter when there are unlimited tags on private? Some of the worst places to hunt in the ASGA is next to private land as these areas are shot out and yet guys continue to shoot as many does as they can. Course they think they are doing the right thing.
> 
> So while some seem to think we as hunters are capable of managing the herd our selfs, to that I say why do we have a license at all? Why not send the DNR 50 bucks a year and we shoot what we see fit in our hunting areas? Course thats not much different than what we have now. I still think having a unit that covers an area the size of 486 is way to huge.
> 
> The DNR doesnt want to raise the price of a license as every time they do they get tons of backlash so they are making up for it selling tons of doe tags. This EHD thing has changed my mind temporarily about buying property and has made me rethink what I would buy. It would suck to buy some land and then have this happen after you invest all kinds of time and money to improve it. Areas that are hit hard it will take years for it to recover.
> 
> Talk to guys in Cass in and Berrien and see what they say. HEar how the DNR just ignored them when they would call in dead deer. HEar how many dont get reported as the farmers start to take the corn off. I know a few farmers in Berrien and they were happy as hell for every deer they found. Deer are rats to them. Your not gonna call the DNR when you find a dead rat are you?


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Nocturnal Ghost

Chuck said:


> I dont think humans for the most part are capable of trigger control. There are some who will but modern man as a whole is a different creature. Our population does not eb and flow based on game availability.
> 
> I have been after the Biologist in AGSA to lower doe tags for 10 years now. Its been a while since I have shot a doe but I get a doe tag for the ASGA every year. This year they finally have lowered it but how does it matter when there are unlimited tags on private? Some of the worst places to hunt in the ASGA is next to private land as these areas are shot out and yet guys continue to shoot as many does as they can. Course they think they are doing the right thing.
> 
> So while some seem to think we as hunters are capable of managing the herd our selfs, to that I say why do we have a license at all? Why not send the DNR 50 bucks a year and we shoot what we see fit in our hunting areas? Course thats not much different than what we have now. I still think having a unit that covers an area the size of 486 is way to huge.
> 
> The DNR doesnt want to raise the price of a license as every time they do they get tons of backlash so they are making up for it selling tons of doe tags. This EHD thing has changed my mind temporarily about buying property and has made me rethink what I would buy. It would suck to buy some land and then have this happen after you invest all kinds of time and money to improve it. Areas that are hit hard it will take years for it to recover.
> 
> Talk to guys in Cass in and Berrien and see what they say. HEar how the DNR just ignored them when they would call in dead deer. HEar how many dont get reported as the farmers start to take the corn off. I know a few farmers in Berrien and they were happy as hell for every deer they found. Deer are rats to them. Your not gonna call the DNR when you find a dead rat are you?


!!!!!!


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## hunterjoeMI

Area on Fishcreek on boarder of Montcalm and Ionia county and to the north

- I reported 12 to Belding DNR Monday- found by me, family, and neighbors. All the ones I found were from July or early Aug- not much was left of them - did not even stink much anymore. 

Most recent death was a doe about first of Sep - visible from the bridge on Jenks road. 

We have checked most of Fish Creek from Montcalm line north to Fenwick Rd. except for a couple short sections. 

Trouble is if they are a few yards of the creek bank and have been dead for a long time you can walk right by them. Fresh ones are so rank they are easy to find. 

Only one buck - "cream of the crop" year and a half old 8 point. I had trail cam pics of him on July 20 - he was fine then.


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## hunterrep

Well it was a very sad night. I am in Hillsdale County, just south and east of Quincy and got a call from a neighbor confirming 5 dead deer found by his pond.
Here is a before:









And here is an after:









Here is another nice drop tine buck that a neighbor across the road walked up on and took a picture of. This buck was with two 6 points that ran off, this guy just slowly walked away after being photographed:









Have been hearing rumors of deer being found near the Southern Michigan border too.


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## atr2425

hunterrep - that sucks man. i hope for you this big guy doesnt have it. 
doesnt sound to good though from the descriptions you have wrote. I'm
keeping my fingers crossed for all hunters here in lower michigan where
this crap is running wild. i am in an area where it is hitting incredibly hard.
good luck to all this year.


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## GuppyII

We have a lease on the north east side of Quincy, I'm scared to go down there. Buddy has lived on the property for six years but just moved in July so nobody has been around to scout. I guess we will wait till the crops come off and go check it out. Hopefully we didn't waste our money this year. We are on the south side of Hog Creek.


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## hunterrep

GuppyII said:


> We have a lease on the north east side of Quincy, I'm scared to go down there. Buddy has lived on the property for six years but just moved in July so nobody has been around to scout. I guess we will wait till the crops come off and go check it out. Hopefully we didn't waste our money this year. We are on the south side of Hog Creek.


I think the Hog Creek watershed is what is spreading this disease. Was trying to confirm a rumor that the Hillsdale County reported numbers on the DNR website was around Allen along Hog Creek. Going to call the DNR to report mine and see what they say. Good luck. I'm just sick about it. Those deer don't deserve to die like that.


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## Waz_51

Fishnmachine said:


> I think I may buy my 5 tags a day to the max allowed and deposit them in the trash in hopes 489 sells out, people need to show some restraint this year, having 30 dead 1/2 mile away and finding 4 without looking on my spot is not good
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


you mean 486? so what about the rest of us that arent being affected by this yet? you just assume to hell with those guys, if i cant kill deer then nobody can? my father and i count on those doe tags here in saginaw county to supply our meat in the freezer for the year...i feel terrible for the guys that are being wiped out by the EHD but its not our fault! that has to be one of the most asinine comments that ive seen on here in awhile...


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## bowhunter42

So... i hunt in ionia, the hardest hit area. I just want to know why everone is so concerned with over harvest of does?? If you've been paying attention this disease effects bucks and does. So maybe you should think about passing bucks up too. Just sound deer management rather then a lopsided view.. food for thought y'all

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2


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## Bobbbert

bowhunter42 said:


> So... i hunt in ionia, the hardest hit area. I just want to know why everone is so concerned with over harvest of does?? If you've been paying attention this disease effects bucks and does. So maybe you should think about passing bucks up too. Just sound deer management rather then a lopsided view.. food for thought y'all
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2


I agree. I think why people are talking more about having a over harvest of does then bucks is the simple answer that you can purchase more doe tags then bucks. 

You can't have one without the other, therefore better deer management needs to be across the state. 


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## Outdoorsman17

unit 486 did sell out a few years ago. The dnr just added more. It's all about the money.


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## B1g daddy of 3

I try to be a low impact hunter no more then 2 deer per yr. I didnt even get one last year. Im buying 1 doe tag and I have a combo I doubt ill fill 1 of the tags. 

At work all the talk is about EHD and how many have we found. Im heading out to my area on sunday to look around. Frankly im worried about what im gonna find.


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## Fishnmachine

Waz_51 said:


> you mean 486? so what about the rest of us that arent being affected by this yet? you just assume to hell with those guys, if i cant kill deer then nobody can? my father and i count on those doe tags here in saginaw county to supply our meat in the freezer for the year...i feel terrible for the guys that are being wiped out by the EHD but its not our fault! that has to be one of the most asinine comments that ive seen on here in awhile...


Yes 486, I was half kidding that dmu will never sell out, just making a statment, I never post on this form because there seem to be lots of jerks on here does make for good reading though. 

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## Liver and Onions

billmitch said:


> Can anyone explain why this seems to have affected primarily the western part of the state? Why no reports in Oakland, Macomb and the rest of the southeastern part of the state?


Any thoughts on this post from billmitch ? Any reports from Ohio. A few pages back I posted a report from Illinois. Some problems there also.

L & O


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## anonymous7242016

Liver and Onions said:


> Any thoughts on this post from billmitch ? Any reports from Ohio. A few pages back I posted a report from Illinois. Some problems there also.
> 
> L & O


I believe EHD has been found in 
Ohio
West Virginia
Illinois
Missouri
Kansas
Indiana
Michigan
I'm sure there are more but I have read recently about those states.
Just a bad year fellas. Nothing we can do about it now but think before we pull the trigger.


L&O any info on our area? Mostly seems to be near Fenwick. I'll be checking again this weekend at my lease. Got one of the neighbors hunting with me this year and he has been hanging some stands recently and keeping an eye out for dead ones, haven't heard from him so I guess no news is good news. Neither has another neighbor.....no word from him and he spends a lot of time in the woods.


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## [email protected]

bucksnbows said:


> I believe EHD has been found in
> Ohio
> West Virginia
> Illinois
> Missouri
> Kansas
> Indiana
> Michigan
> I'm sure there are more but I have read recently about those states.
> Just a bad year fellas. Nothing we can do about it now but think before we pull the trigger.
> 
> 
> L&O any info on our area? Mostly seems to be near Fenwick. I'll be checking again this weekend at my lease. Got one of the neighbors hunting with me this year and he has been hanging some stands recently and keeping an eye out for dead ones, haven't heard from him so I guess no news is good news. Neither has another neighbor.....no word from him and he spends a lot of time in the woods.


I believe Montana has been hit the worst this year. Milk river valley is pretty much wiped out. Fields of a hundred have been reduced to just a handful. This is a one hundred mile valley. 10,000-20,000 dead. Nature at it's worst  Shrubby

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## Liver and Onions

hunterjoeMI said:


> Area on Fishcreek on boarder of Montcalm and Ionia county and to the north
> 
> - I reported 12 to Belding DNR Monday- found by me, family, and neighbors. All the ones I found were from July or early Aug- not much was left of them - did not even stink much anymore.
> 
> Most recent death was a doe about first of Sep - visible from the bridge on Jenks road.
> 
> We have checked most of Fish Creek from Montcalm line north to Fenwick Rd. except for a couple short sections.
> 
> Trouble is if they are a few yards of the creek bank and have been dead for a long time you can walk right by them. Fresh ones are so rank they are easy to find.
> 
> Only one buck - "cream of the crop" year and a half old 8 point. I had trail cam pics of him on July 20 - he was fine then.


Thanks for the info. I hope that you can keep us posted on what you see or hear about in that area. A few of us hunt near there, but do not live in the area.

L & O


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## RackSmacker

For those of you calling for a reduction in the number of doe permits... I understand that there are probably far more dead deer than have been reported, but the most recent total is up to almost 2800 deer. That is only 00.5% of the 500,000 quota for zone 486 alone!!! hardly a blip on the radar when you look at it in those terms!


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## anonymous7242016

RackSmacker said:


> For those of you calling for a reduction in the number of doe permits... I understand that there are probably far more dead deer than have been reported, but the most recent total is up to almost 2800 deer. That is only 00.5% of the 500,000 quota for zone 486 alone!!! hardly a blip on the radar when you look at it in those terms!


.....but now look at it on a localized situation that still hasn't been over run with out of towners clueless to what is going on with a pocket full of anterless tags who are more concerned with getting a deer and not concerned about how their decisions could impact the recovery. Its a pretty big blip on the small radar. 

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## shoot thru

guess it really doesnt matter how many doe tags they sell here.
they are all dead anyway.there is a handfull of fawns around..
im on the branch calhoun line. this was as good of hutnting as mich has to offer.. dnr numbers are way off .. i havent seen a deer on my rd or on the way to work in a month and a half.(mabe a fawn or 2) have looked several nights just before dark at some of my best hunting.
usually a 30-50 deer ride.. again not a thing..
do you really think the dnr wants you to know the true numbers when its time to sell tags? i believe the confirmed cases are the ones they have tested? and they have to be fresh to test.


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## Nocturnal Ghost

shoot thru said:


> guess it really doesnt matter how many doe tags they sell here.
> they are all dead anyway.there is a handfull of fawns around..
> im on the branch calhoun line. this was as good of hutnting as mich has to offer.. dnr numbers are way off .. i havent seen a deer on my rd or on the way to work in a month and a half.(mabe a fawn or 2) have looked several nights just before dark at some of my best hunting.
> usually a 30-50 deer ride.. again not a thing..
> do you really think the dnr wants you to know the true numbers when its time to sell tags? i believe the confirmed cases are the ones they have tested? and they have to be fresh to test.


 Hell no! they just sold 1500 anterless tags (in the last week) for public ground in Ionia Clinton county, If they don't care about the deer they should atleast think about the hunter densities that will be on the unefected public ground.


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## bucknasty11208

Man, I wish everyone would get off the DNR's case for cryin' out loud! If you think all the deer are dead, then don't buy a doe tag. Don't even buy a license. Stay home and watch football. Spread the word to all of your family and friends and tell them to do the same.....DON"T BUY DOE TAGS! NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO!

I know this sucks for you guys that are being effected but the DNR set their goals/quotas well before this EHD outbreak. There is no way they can go back and adjust things this late in the game, especially since its more on a township or specific area level as opposed to an entire county. They don't make any adjustments mid season when car/deer accidents spike during the rut do they? Im sure once the season is over, the Biologists and DNR will get together to assess the situation and make any adjustments accordingly for next season.

And if anyone thinks I am preaching from my soapbox in the land of good and plenty of deer, think again. I hunt the NELP where I saw 6 deer in 6 days of bowhunting last year.

Your numbers will rebound. The habitat and food supply down that way is to good for it not to. Its just going to take a few years. In the mean time, you'll have to be patient and practice a little trigger control.


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## shoot thru

And their number 1 goal is sell tags.....


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## atr2425

shoot thru said:


> guess it really doesnt matter how many doe tags they sell here.
> they are all dead anyway.there is a handfull of fawns around..
> im on the branch calhoun line. this was as good of hutnting as mich has to offer.. dnr numbers are way off .. i havent seen a deer on my rd or on the way to work in a month and a half.(mabe a fawn or 2) have looked several nights just before dark at some of my best hunting.
> usually a 30-50 deer ride.. again not a thing..
> do you really think the dnr wants you to know the true numbers when its time to sell tags? i believe the confirmed cases are the ones they have tested? and they have to be fresh to test.


shootthru - where at on the county line? i basically live there as well in union city. i've been seeing, or not seeing, the same thing. no deer anywhere for months. this is looking really bad.


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## shoot thru

I am on hayner rd. about half way between burlington and river rd.
there arent many left in this section for sure..


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## atr2425

i actually live on the intersection of adolph rd. and girard. my parents live right (literally) on the line. i have not seen (nor has my family) a deer on my way to work or my way home in months. have been driving around in the mornings and at night in our area. still, no deer anywhere. good luck to you as well as everyone else that hunts around us. let us know if you get one this year.


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## hunterrep

I was at Potawatami Campground(West of Girard) over Labor day visiting family. My BIL camps a lot out there a lot and has a great view of a bean field. He used to see deer every day in it. He said he had not seen one in a month in it and this is when the leaves were still green. The caretaker of the campground claims to have found several dozen dead ones near there. I too believe this is way worse than most believe. That being said, it is very localized and restricting everybody in 486 makes no sense. It is up to those affected areas to talk with the others who aren't aware of what is going on and educate them on trigger restraint. I have always passed small bucks but I would advocate if you need to shoot one for meat, shoot a buck of whatever size and spare the does.


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## RackSmacker

bucksnbows said:


> .....but now look at it on a localized situation that still hasn't been over run with out of towners clueless to what is going on with a pocket full of anterless tags who are more concerned with getting a deer and not concerned about how their decisions could impact the recovery. Its a pretty big blip on the small radar.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Unfortunately doe tags are not sold by the township, so there is nothing they can really do. There are far more people that aren't affected by the EHD than those that are. I understand that it is terrible for those that have been hit hard, but the deer will bounce back... they always have and always will! I do almost all of my hunting on about 1300 acres spread across Calhoun county, so I myself will be affected by it this season, but there is no way to prevent EHD and no way to fight it so I'm not going to let it ruin my season, depending on the numbers of deer that I see, I'm fully capable of making my own decisions of whether or not to take any does or not this season


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## huntingfool43

We are now up to 19 dead deer in about 1/4 of the section we are in. Any one who says EHD is a nom issue better think again.


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## Outdoorsman17

I agree, problem is they don't care until it affects them:sad:


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## Fishnmachine

hunterrep said:


> I was at Potawatami Campground(West of Girard) over Labor day visiting family. My BIL camps a lot out there a lot and has a great view of a bean field. He used to see deer every day in it. He said he had not seen one in a month in it and this is when the leaves were still green. The caretaker of the campground claims to have found several dozen dead ones near there. I too believe this is way worse than most believe. That being said, it is very localized and restricting everybody in 486 makes no sense. It is up to those affected areas to talk with the others who aren't aware of what is going on and educate them on trigger restraint. I have always passed small bucks but I would advocate if you need to shoot one for meat, shoot a buck of whatever size and spare the does.


That's Awsome I hunt about 1 mile from there, I know the guy who owns a lot of that land including round lake, I should ask him if his hunters have found many back there? 

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## anonymous7242016

Outdoorsman17 said:


> I agree, problem is they don't care until it affects them:sad:


 
I would say it isn't they don't care, they just have not had the true experience. I don't even know what I am going to get. It hasn't been found in the same township as me but it has been found very close. I won't be a bit suprised if I find anything. 
Not much we can really do to stop it.


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## Lumberman

I went and walked my property in Ionia last night. Basically zero deer sign. No water on the property so I didn't find any dead deer but I have to admit I starting to get a little nervous. This is crazy.


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## shoot thru

Fishnmachine said:


> That's Awsome I hunt about 1 mile from there, I know the guy who owns a lot of that land including round lake, I should ask him if his hunters have found many back there?
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


sorry to say fishin machine rd lake area has been hammered.
might want to look for a new spot.. all the way from us 12 to union city rd . the section in front of my house and behind it were hit really hard..
im about 2 mi from rd lake or the campgrounds..and yes the guy that takes care of the campgrounds has found dozzens.. hes a good friend of mine, and he hunts that same area.. he to is sick about it.. they have found some massive bucks..


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## NovemberWhitetailz

In the DNR meeting Wednesday.... Michigans deer specialist that Michigan will do a two year survey and at that point they will consider limiting the doe tags for certain areas.
TWO YEAR SURVEY!
However, she also made it very clear that the general public can't and will not know how devastaing it actually is. Ionia co has the EHD E6 strain according to her and that's the worst possible one for Michigan to have


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## Fishnmachine

shoot thru said:


> sorry to say fishin machine rd lake area has been hammered.
> might want to look for a new spot.. all the way from us 12 to union city rd . the section in front of my house and behind it were hit really hard..
> im about 2 mi from rd lake or the campgrounds..and yes the guy that takes care of the campgrounds has found dozzens.. hes a good friend of mine, and he hunts that same area.. he to is sick about it.. they have found some massive bucks..


I am on the other side of Marshall rd just SE from the campground as a bird fly's. I found 4 a while ago saw one live one last weekend while hanging stands, looks like I may be hunting ducks and geese more this year. 

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## Walker Rd

HUBBHUNTER2 said:


> In the DNR meeting Wednesday.... Michigans deer specialist that Michigan will do a two year survey and at that point they will consider limiting the doe tags for certain areas.
> TWO YEAR SURVEY!
> However, she also made it very clear that the general public can't and will not know how devastaing it actually is. Ionia co has the EHD E6 strain according to her and that's the worst possible one for Michigan to have


What did she mean by _*"the general public can't and will not know how devastaing it actually is."*_

They will not make it public what they really know?


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## NovemberWhitetailz

They will not make it public what they really know?[/QUOTE]

CORRECT!

That came straight from the horses mouth!


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## atr2425

the public may never know for other reasons as well. i'm sure they dont want us to know the real truth. However, i think only we can help them tell the whole truth. I know many many people that have not gone out and checked their spots. and others who have not even reported what they found. the DNR needs our help with this to even try and be accurate.


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## Outdoorsman17

HUBBHUNTER2 said:


> In the DNR meeting Wednesday.... Michigans deer specialist that Michigan will do a two year survey and at that point they will consider limiting the doe tags for certain areas.
> TWO YEAR SURVEY!
> 
> This is exactly the reason I have been against lumping all the dmu's in unit 486 all along. When something happens it will just take longer to fine tune and make changes. I have always been more in favor of micro management. How long will it take to get these counties changed from the unit 486? 5 years after the two year study? This is all bull crap. People are going to start doing the same thing as some of the northern Michiganders and just quit hunting all together. Look how bad some of the counties are in the Up. Alot of hunters kept going because it was the tradition, but after years of not seeing no more deer they quit making the trip across the Big Mac.


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## Nocturnal Ghost

HUBBHUNTER2 said:


> In the DNR meeting Wednesday.... Michigans deer specialist that Michigan will do a two year survey and at that point they will consider limiting the doe tags for certain areas.
> TWO YEAR SURVEY!
> However, she also made it very clear that the general public can't and will not know how devastaing it actually is. Ionia co has the EHD E6 strain according to her and that's the worst possible one for Michigan to have


Who is she?


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## smith34

HUBBHUNTER2 said:


> Ionia co has the EHD E6 strain according to her and that's the worst possible one for Michigan to have


Well, if we're going to do it, at least we're doing it right! :banghead3


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## NovemberWhitetailz

smith34 said:


> Well, if we're going to do it, at least we're doing it right! :banghead3


Hit a home run...... bad part is there are still 5 other strains but they won't take as bad of a toll on us if we get it again

Ashley Hippler..... but I think the last name has since changed
She's a biologist..... therefor she know's it all. However, she is from Cali and only been here two years!! :rant:


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## Nocturnal Ghost

HUBBHUNTER2 said:


> Ashley Hippler..... but I think the last name has since changed
> :rant:


 Witness protection program?:lol:


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## NovemberWhitetailz

Nocturnal Ghost said:


> Witness protection program?:lol:


After some of her stupid responses..... i'd have to assume so!


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## November Sunrise

HUBBHUNTER2 said:


> After some of her stupid responses..... i'd have to assume so!


I know Ashley, and I've read your posts as well, and the difference in brain power between the two of you is indeed quite distinct. But out of the two of you she's not the stupid one. if you need help with the math on that equation just let me know.

Furthermore, your claim that she made some statement to the effect of "the general public can't know how bad this is", as if she's admitting to some kind of DNR cover up, is even more asinine. You're absolutely clueless when it comes to both your understandings of deer management as well as your wacko conspiracy theories.

The whining and thumb sucking about how the outbreak has affected you personally is one thing, but when you start to disparage and represent individuals who I know and who you can't hold a candle to in terms of credentials expect to get called out and to have your ignorance highlighted.


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## Playin' Hooky

Walker Rd said:


> What did she mean by _*"the general public can't and will not know how devastaing it actually is."*_
> 
> They will not make it public what they really know?


Or does it mean:

"The general public, only a small percentage of whom have chosen to assist us in compiling an estimate of deer lost in this outbreak, can't know the actual total because we can only report the numbers that THE PRIVATE LANDOWNERS report to us! Since those who can't dial the phone number we have provided in every press release since early August to report he number of dead deer they find, we won't ever know the true scope of population lost. We don't have the staff under current levels of funding to have a biologist surveying public and private land at a township/county level to get a good count. Of course, even if we did, a number of people wouldn't believe it if we told them."

Stop for a moment and put yourself in any of the DNR biologists' shoes. You have an unprecedented outbreak of EHD, your staff and budget are stretched way to thin to get a good handle on it given the scope of the problem and the fact you already have a full workload. The legislature and governor are not releasing any increased funds to deal with a wildlife problem. Insurance companies and farmers may actually be smiling (some are practically dancing). You ask for help from the general public--many of whom care about the deer, but many of whom won't assist the DNR in compiling data. then you report the numbers and almost everyone says they're wrong and some now believe the DNR is conspiring to withhold information that it has NOT RECEIVED? This is getting a bit goofy folks...really...


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## Nocturnal Ghost

November Sunrise said:


> I know Ashley, and I've read your posts as well, and the difference in brain power between the two of you is indeed quite distinct. But out of the two of you she's not the stupid one. if you need help with the math on that equation just let me know.
> 
> Furthermore, your claim that she made some statement to the effect of "the general public can't know how bad this is", as if she's admitting to some kind of DNR cover up, is even more asinine. You're absolutely clueless when it comes to both your understandings of deer management as well as your wacko conspiracy theories.
> 
> The whining and thumb sucking about how the outbreak has affected you personally is one thing, but when you start to disparage and represent individuals who I know and who you can't hold a candle to in terms of credentials expect to get called out and to have your ignorance highlighted.


 Really, Hub has a pile of dead deer for credentals and she has theorys.


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## nick burk

Well i hunt calhoun co also by graham lake off 66 and its bad there also i usually see 20-30 on a ride around the block and on 3 trips seen 4 i think the last post about dnr not having the money or man power hit it on the head! But with small game opening tomorrow and the nice weather this weekend more people will be in the woods and i think the numbers will get a big jump i called in the 6 i found

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## November Sunrise

Nocturnal Ghost said:


> Really, Hub has a pile of dead deer for credentals and she has theorys.


"Hub" attempted to slander a person who I and others on this forum know to be a well qualified professional. 

In addition, he concocted a lie about her saying at the meeting that the "public can't know the real truth", as if there's a DNR conspiracy theory that was confessed to at the public meeting. There is no conspiracy to cover up the details of the outbreak nor was there any confession to such an idea. Anyone with a smidgeon of discernment understands that his claim is nonsense.

"Hub" should not confuse his local circumstance as a reason to slander someone who actually has a clue about deer biology and managing a deer herd.


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## TJD

November Sunrise said:


> "Hub" attempted to slander a person who I and others on this forum know to be a well qualified professional.
> 
> In addition, he concocted a lie about her saying at the meeting that the "public can't know the real truth", as if there's a DNR conspiracy theory that was confessed to at the public meeting. There is no conspiracy to cover up the details of the outbreak nor was there any confession to such an idea. Anyone with a smidgeon of discernment understands that his claim is nonsense.
> 
> "Hub" should not confuse his local circumstance as a reason to slander someone who actually has a clue about deer biology and managing a deer herd.



NS, Like you I don't believe there is any DNR conspiracy, but I am curious as to why the DNR changed the EHD map on the last two updates and decided to omit the many townships where they have EHD reports, but have not done any testing on the carcasses. In my opinion, the EHD outbreak is more widespread than the latest map makes it out to be.


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## Outdoorsman17

OK thanks guy's, I may have been mistaken . I just remember seeing the sudden change on the DNR left over tags website. I did find this also but not exactly what I was talking about

http://www.mlive.com/outdoors/index.ssf/2010/08/more_antlerless_deer_permits_a.html


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## Chuck

It will effect more than 5% you can guarantee that.

I dont hold anything against the DNR as I think they are understaffed and spread thin. It does amaze me that whitetails bring in more cash than any other species hunted and they seem to be the least managed of all other species except squirrels. It just seems like here are 5 billion tags for half the state you hunters figure out how many to shoot for yourselves mentality.

What were the EHD numbers for Cass and berrien the last few years (in 2010 it was a little over 1k)? I know people personally that called and reported deer and they were told they (DNR) were not counting any more deer at this time. I know a few people who cut up deer for a living in these counties and there numbers have been down. The hunters I know have seen less deer and in some cases no deer. These are die hard hunters not weekend warriors. So answer me this if 1000 deer dies in Cass and Allegan and Berrien counties why did so many hunters I know personally in these areas see so few deer and they were spread out over a large area? I saw a 50% reduction in deer after 2010 in VAn Buren. I also hunted the areas affected in 06 in Allegan SGA and at that time there were over 300 deer reported and hunting in those areas sucked hard. I walked miles in the winter and couldnt even cut a track in areas that are usually full of sign. These are areas I have hunted for 30 years. Now the numbers for that time frame are 50 -75 deer???!!!??? I also have a buddy who does a lot for work for framers )irrigation and drain tiles and other stuff), he hasent been seeing hardly any deer the last few years when he used to see crap loads just a few years ago. I also personally know a few farmers in Berrien and Cass and they told me they found a lot of dead deer after the corn was cut. But like I have said before they hate deer. I dont go by the GOV numbers I go by the word on the street, there is always one thing you can count on and thats word on the street so to speak.

So NS dont tell me that crap we dont know what the hell we are talking about. In a hunting season the amount of land I cover is measured in square miles not 40 acre wood lots.

The DNR numbers are Poppy Cock plain and simple. Call it what you want ( like I said they are understaffed), a conspiracy or people who work for the GOV and have the mentality they dont give crap about deer they just want to study the red billed warbling hoot owl or whatever.

But one last thing in my rant, why are we seeing so many EHD cases the last few years. I mean every year since 06 it has become more and more prevalent and we didnt have a drought last year. MAybe your DNR girl needs to get some boots on the ground and figure this out NS.


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## Fishnmachine

NS you work for the Dnr?

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## Fishnmachine

Reason I ask is I have never seen anybody stick up so much for a group of inept toolboxes in my life. I have hunted all over the united states but never seen a state like MI where landowners and hunters first response is I don't want those "fill in the blanks" on my property, why is that? Years of mis management all over the state? I am all for increased license fees, getting rid of 486, obr, mars what have you but nothing changes ever, not even a open discussion? 

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## ronhunter2007

any buddy heard ne thing on mecosta co.

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## nick burk

Found 4 more while not even looking just out cutting otamolive in the parry calhoun

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## hunterrep

I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories and hate to add to the mayhem. But, after what I saw last night on my farm, I do now believe there are many places getting literally wiped out of deer. I walked 125 acres of some of the most prime property you can find in Hillsdale county(right on the border of Branch) last night that was loaded with deer 2-3 weeks ago. Found 7 dead, smelled many others and NO DEER to be found. No tracks, pulled a camera, no pictures in the last 7 days. GONE.
Until then, I didn't believe guys talking about their areas void of deer. Now I do. I didn't believe all the talk about smelling rotting deer. Now I do. We are told that only a percentage of deer will get infected. I believe it is 90% minimum. What I saw last night, and how fast it moved through my area was the absolute most gut wrenching thing that I could imagine. I won't even hunt there this year. Nothing left to hunt.
This is one of the townships not on the map.(yes I reported them) I know of others where not only were deer found, they are wiped out and townships not showing on the map. I would not put much faith at all in those DNR numbers. In their defense, I just don't think they have a clue what the extent of this is. When the crops come off and people really start searching their properties, we still won't know the real story. I can assure you it is going to effect more than 5% before this is over.
I believe this started last year. Everybody I talked to last year complained about lack of sightings. Lots of threads on here about it. Warm weather was blamed, nothing mentioned about EHD. Makes sense now.


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## roo

hunterrep said:


> I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories and hate to add to the mayhem. But, after what I saw last night on my farm, I do now believe there are many places getting literally wiped out of deer. I walked 125 acres of some of the most prime property you can find in Hillsdale county(right on the border of Branch) last night that was loaded with deer 2-3 weeks ago. Found 7 dead, smelled many others and NO DEER to be found. No tracks, pulled a camera, no pictures in the last 7 days. GONE.
> Until then, I didn't believe guys talking about their areas void of deer. Now I do. I didn't believe all the talk about smelling rotting deer. Now I do. We are told that only a percentage of deer will get infected. I believe it is 90% minimum. What I saw last night, and how fast it moved through my area was the absolute most gut wrenching thing that I could imagine. I won't even hunt there this year. Nothing left to hunt.
> This is one of the townships not on the map.(yes I reported them) I know of others where not only were deer found, they are wiped out and townships not showing on the map. I would not put much faith at all in those DNR numbers. In their defense, I just don't think they have a clue what the extent of this is. When the crops come off and people really start searching their properties, we still won't know the real story. I can assure you it is going to effect more than 5% before this is over.
> I believe this started last year. Everybody I talked to last year complained about lack of sightings. Lots of threads on here about it. Warm weather was blamed, nothing mentioned about EHD. Makes sense now.


Sad to hear. Was this north or south of 12


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## Nitro56

NS, I'm hoping your right with the small percent of SLP that will actually see much of an impact this season, however, I do question how the DNR map of confirmed deaths by EHD can be so out of touch with what has been found. The latest DNR map has confirmed EHD deaths in Calhoun County for Clarenden Twp, Eckford, Fredonia, and Convis. I'm aware of dead deer being found in additional townships of Burlington, Tekonsha, Homer, Marshall, Marengo, and Lee. Maybe there is a reporting problem, but the problem is way bigger than stated on DNR web sight. Is anyone else able to confirm dead deer found in other Calhoun county Twp that aren't mentioned above?


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## hunterrep

roo said:


> Sad to hear. Was this north or south of 12


About 4 miles south of 12.


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## shoot thru

my son just left he had been fishing on st joe river near sherwood.
he said they only went about 100 yds down river and the whole river bottom stinks.. they seen 4 in the river.. thats the first ive heard from that area.. hunter rep it is sad i have the same thing here.. really dont smell any anymore they were hit hard here better then a month ago.
most are just bones now..


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## Nocturnal Ghost

hunterrep said:


> I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories and hate to add to the mayhem. But, after what I saw last night on my farm, I do now believe there are many places getting literally wiped out of deer. I walked 125 acres of some of the most prime property you can find in Hillsdale county(right on the border of Branch) last night that was loaded with deer 2-3 weeks ago. Found 7 dead, smelled many others and NO DEER to be found. No tracks, pulled a camera, no pictures in the last 7 days. GONE.
> Until then, I didn't believe guys talking about their areas void of deer. Now I do. I didn't believe all the talk about smelling rotting deer. Now I do. We are told that only a percentage of deer will get infected. I believe it is 90% minimum. What I saw last night, and how fast it moved through my area was the absolute most gut wrenching thing that I could imagine. I won't even hunt there this year. Nothing left to hunt.
> This is one of the townships not on the map.(yes I reported them) I know of others where not only were deer found, they are wiped out and townships not showing on the map. I would not put much faith at all in those DNR numbers. In their defense, I just don't think they have a clue what the extent of this is. When the crops come off and people really start searching their properties, we still won't know the real story. I can assure you it is going to effect more than 5% before this is over.
> I believe this started last year. Everybody I talked to last year complained about lack of sightings. Lots of threads on here about it. Warm weather was blamed, nothing mentioned about EHD. Makes sense now.


 I am in agreement of this. I did email my local biologist about the possiablity of EHD last year after our sighting fell off the table but the few deer we found in oct/nov were way to rotten to confirm anything. 

The DNR could help themself by making the maps that they have that show reported and confirmed numbers down to township levels. I know they have them because I have copies of ones that are now three weeks old.


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## HUBBHUNTER

The DNR biologist NS is defending is in fact a very intelligent lady. She's smart enough to know the general public can't handle.the truth and if the DNR reported reality hunter participation would drop. She knows better than to kill thier cash cow. Also what I believe HUBB2 was refering to is something that was said behind closed doors, not during the public meeting. There are a few CO's that are being affected and just as upset as John Q.

I found another dead deer today, it was the BB had been tracking over the summer. 
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## Whitetail Freak

REEDRELLIK said:


> Found one in Seeley Creek in Kent county today. Looks pretty fresh.
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


I'm just north of you a couple miles and found my first today. Standing in the yard I could smell it so I put the hip boots on and found it in minutes, died in front of my camera in the creek. Pulled the card and And got pics of one doe familly that wont be around much longer if still are, no pics of them in the last 2 days or any deer on that cam in the last 2 days which is crazy. I figured it was coming just a matter of time, pretty sad. Northern Kent county, Harvard.


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## Sportsman1933

We found our first this week at my grandpa's farm in Muskegon County near Ravenna. Laying in a drainage ditch, the DNR was called and they said it was the first reported in Ravenna township.


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## Sportsman1933

hunterrep said:


> I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories and hate to add to the mayhem. But, after what I saw last night on my farm, I do now believe there are many places getting literally wiped out of deer. I walked 125 acres of some of the most prime property you can find in Hillsdale county(right on the border of Branch) last night that was loaded with deer 2-3 weeks ago. Found 7 dead, smelled many others and NO DEER to be found. No tracks, pulled a camera, no pictures in the last 7 days. GONE.
> Until then, I didn't believe guys talking about their areas void of deer. Now I do. I didn't believe all the talk about smelling rotting deer. Now I do. We are told that only a percentage of deer will get infected. I believe it is 90% minimum. What I saw last night, and how fast it moved through my area was the absolute most gut wrenching thing that I could imagine. I won't even hunt there this year. Nothing left to hunt.
> This is one of the townships not on the map.(yes I reported them) I know of others where not only were deer found, they are wiped out and townships not showing on the map. I would not put much faith at all in those DNR numbers. In their defense, I just don't think they have a clue what the extent of this is. When the crops come off and people really start searching their properties, we still won't know the real story. I can assure you it is going to effect more than 5% before this is over.
> I believe this started last year. Everybody I talked to last year complained about lack of sightings. Lots of threads on here about it. Warm weather was blamed, nothing mentioned about EHD. Makes sense now.


Wow, that sounds terrible. Any idea how widespread it is in your area? Hopefully not too bad and your area will repopulate quickly. I hope people will know enough to lay off the does in these areas...


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## Fishnmachine

Sportsman1933 said:


> Wow, that sounds terrible. Any idea how widespread it is in your area? Hopefully not too bad and your area will repopulate quickly. I hope people will know enough to lay off the does in these areas...


I for one will be tending does on my farm as if I were breeding them myself 

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## sniper22mag

Two weeks ago , found 4 in the Muskegon river flats. Made report to Lansing. They emailed me back telling me the nearest field office would look into it. Talked to a co today by the river here in Muskegon. He said 21 where just found yesterday. He really did not want to elaborate much on the subject.


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## BushHippie

Chuck said:


> It will effect more than 5% you can guarantee that.
> 
> I dont hold anything against the DNR as I think they are understaffed and spread thin. It does amaze me that whitetails bring in more cash than any other species hunted and they seem to be the least managed of all other species except squirrels. It just seems like here are 5 billion tags for half the state you hunters figure out how many to shoot for yourselves mentality.
> 
> What were the EHD numbers for Cass and berrien the last few years (in 2010 it was a little over 1k)? I know people personally that called and reported deer and they were told they (DNR) were not counting any more deer at this time. I know a few people who cut up deer for a living in these counties and there numbers have been down. The hunters I know have seen less deer and in some cases no deer. These are die hard hunters not weekend warriors. So answer me this if 1000 deer dies in Cass and Allegan and Berrien counties why did so many hunters I know personally in these areas see so few deer and they were spread out over a large area? I saw a 50% reduction in deer after 2010 in VAn Buren. I also hunted the areas affected in 06 in Allegan SGA and at that time there were over 300 deer reported and hunting in those areas sucked hard. I walked miles in the winter and couldnt even cut a track in areas that are usually full of sign. These are areas I have hunted for 30 years. Now the numbers for that time frame are 50 -75 deer???!!!??? I also have a buddy who does a lot for work for framers )irrigation and drain tiles and other stuff), he hasent been seeing hardly any deer the last few years when he used to see crap loads just a few years ago. I also personally know a few farmers in Berrien and Cass and they told me they found a lot of dead deer after the corn was cut. But like I have said before they hate deer. I dont go by the GOV numbers I go by the word on the street, there is always one thing you can count on and thats word on the street so to speak.
> 
> So NS dont tell me that crap we dont know what the hell we are talking about. In a hunting season the amount of land I cover is measured in square miles not 40 acre wood lots.
> 
> The DNR numbers are Poppy Cock plain and simple. Call it what you want ( like I said they are understaffed), a conspiracy or people who work for the GOV and have the mentality they dont give crap about deer they just want to study the red billed warbling hoot owl or whatever.
> 
> But one last thing in my rant, why are we seeing so many EHD cases the last few years. I mean every year since 06 it has become more and more prevalent and we didnt have a drought last year. MAybe your DNR girl needs to get some boots on the ground and figure this out NS.


Chuck, I dont beleive we have ever met but, THANK YOU! THANK YOU!THANK YOU! You have expressed many of the same ideas I have had while reading much of this hooey. I too am aware that the understaffed DNR simply quit following up on reports. People I had spoken too tried to report but were dismissed with statements like "It is likely caused by EHD, dont be alarmed its a natural occurence." Afterwards there would be no follow up, no number count or testing. How could the DNR claim factual numbers when they quit counting? Yet there is a lot of bashing of those who did not or do not report die offs. I would like to think that we should report but does it really matter if the DNR isnt counting correctly? The butcher numbers are way down. Hunter sightings are down. Numbers of floating dead deer are up so high that EHD can no longer be easily kept quiet. I do believe that the full extent of EHD has been very hushed up. For those of you experiencing your first encounter with EHD, just wait, it will likely get worse as your eyes open to just how devistating this stuff can be. Imagine 4 or 5 years in a row of EHD in your favorite hunting grounds. That is what we have had down here. Consider the cumulative effect of this and tell me it wont effect 5% of SLP hunters! The numbers reported are horribly off. Some one stated take the posted number x3, my guess is x10. Another person stated that the DNR has no idea the number of deer that we have lost, truth is I dont beleive anyone of us knows. What I do know is that it has been far worse than any of the media, DNR, or authorities have let on. It has been kept on the media down low. Try speaking to non resident hunters from Indiana or non-hunters who dont really pay attention to the number of deer that they see, many are unaware that there is such a thing as EHD. I have heard talk that it will take 3-5 years for our local herd to recover. What if EHD does not go away? Will the herd recover at all? When I first began researching EHD for personal knowledge, I was releived to read that it seldom effects the same area for more than 2 years in a row, that was 3 years ago. Now some of my favorite areas are quiet and almost void of deer. It is down right spookey amongst the silence of the forest finding only rubs of bucks from the past.


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## Moose57

A buddy of mine found 23 on his farm yesterday here in Jackson County. 4 were very nice bucks... Very sad......


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## bucknasty11208

It just amazes me how the conspiracy theorists continue on.
Number of dead deer floating is so high that they can no longer keep it quiet? Keeping the full extent of EHD hush hush? Being kept on a media down low? Will EHD ever go away? Will the herd ever come back?

So how would everyone feel if the DNR came out and said that they believe the actual number of dead deer from EHD is in the neighborhood of 10-15,000? What would it mean? What what it mean if the DNR came out and said that they are whoafully understaffed and do not have the resources to stay on top of reported die offs and their numbers may not be totaly accurate? What would it mean if the DNR at the last seocond decided that no does could be killed in the effected counties? Would that save the day? Save the future of deer hunting as we know it? Would that appease everyone in the affected areas? It would all mean NOTHING!!!

The fact of the matter is this, the DNR is DAMNED if the do and DAMNED if they don't.
It amazes me how some folks try and make it sound like the DNR is releasing these midge flys trying to decimate the deer herd while knowingly selling as many doe permits as possible to continue to make money. It also amazes me how it seems as though some folks think the DNR has some sort of magic cure for all of this. Guess what? THEY DONT! This is an act of nature and an act of God, plain and simple.

The fact of the matter is this. 1-The DNR does not have the manpower, budget, and/or resources to stay completely on top of this. 2-The media doesn't report this because frankly, they have more important things to report on. 3- EHD is going to put a big dent in the deer numbers in certain areas. 4- Hunting in those areas is going to be tough for a few years. 5- Last but not least, THERE IS NO GREAT CONSPIRACY BEING HATCHED BY THE DNR!!!


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## Chuck

Here is a link to a PDF that I think explains the disease. Worth the read

http://www.cfsph.iastate.edu/Factsheets/pdfs/epizootic_hemorrhagic_disease.pdf


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## Fishnmachine

Thanks interesting read, I still have not seen any data on the survival rate if infected? I did not know that if they did survive they could be lame 

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## Outdoorsman17

I don't really think anyone is trying to bash the DNR. When you hide something it makes you look guilty. They would serve themselves right to release any and all information they have.


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## Chuck

It says depending on the strain and where it could be a 90% mortality rate.

Here is a good read on the Milk River EHD die off. Also note how there DNR is actually doing something about it. Why cant we get a news artical like this instead of "move along there is nothing to see here but please go buy 5 more doe tags"

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/environment/story/2012-01-08/deer-killing-disease/52451078/1


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## bucknasty11208

Outdoorsman17 said:


> I don't really think anyone is trying to bash the DNR. When you hide something it makes you look guilty. They would serve themselves right to release any and all information they have.


What are they hiding? What are they guilty of? They aren't hiding the fact that EHD is out there. They are posting their updated numbers in effected counties every week. They just do not have the manpower, budget, and/or resources available to go out and investigate every single report of a dead deer. I'd bet if you talk to any DNR officer, they'll have no problem telling you that there are many more casualties than what they are reporting but there are so many reports that they cant go and investigate them all and give a 100% accurate number.


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## hunterjoeMI

Check the date on the Milk River article it was published in Jan 2012.

"Posted 1/8/2012 11:34 AM | Updated 1/8/2012 11:41 AM"


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## Liver and Onions

hunterjoeMI said:


> Check the date on the Milk River article it was published in Jan 2012.
> 
> "Posted 1/8/2012 11:34 AM | Updated 1/8/2012 11:41 AM"


Correct. That happened last summer. We have discussed and/or posted that article before. 90% of the whitetails along a 100 mile stretch of that river is an amazing number. I wonder what further steps have been taken this year in order to allow the herd to rebound. One might think that zero antlerless tags would be issued for the affected area.

One might also think that DMU 486 should be be broken up and returned to the county by county DMUs for next season so that antlerless permits could be adjusted to a county by county basis. That would be about all the DNR could do. It would be then be up to the hunters to make antlerless kill decisions based on their hunting area.

L & O


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## Grizzly Adams

Sportsman1933 said:


> We found our first this week at my grandpa's farm in Muskegon County near Ravenna. Laying in a drainage ditch, the DNR was called and they said it was the first reported in Ravenna township.


Where abouts in Ravenna is this?


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## sniper22mag

I have two dnr officers that live within a few miles of me. See one often and tried to talk to him yesterday. I asked what was the ehd situation? He just say their dying. Then tried to ask a few more questions about it and all he told me was that 21 where found the other day. Told him I made a report over a week ago. He just shrugs his shoulders like who cares. Says he never heard nothing of it. When trying to get info on any situation in this county. The dnr is never real forth coming with info. The problem was he was in too much of a hurry to get back in his truck and do nothing. That is just what he did.


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## Playin' Hooky

sniper22mag said:


> I have two dnr officers that live within a few miles of me. See one often and tried to talk to him yesterday. I asked what was the ehd situation? He just say their dying. Then tried to ask a few more questions about it and all he told me was that 21 where found the other day. Told him I made a report over a week ago. He just shrugs his shoulders like who cares. Says he never heard nothing of it. When trying to get info on any situation in this county. The dnr is never real forth coming with info. The problem was he was in too much of a hurry to get back in his truck and do nothing. That is just what he did.


COs are LAW ENFORCEMENT, not wildlife. Different division. On a professional level it really isn't their concern...unless you are collecting skulls without proper permits. Our local CO was at a Pheasants Forever youth event and our Hunter Ed class in the past week. Similar summary as you rec'd: many deer dying, there are still deer out there. He didn't have a great deal to say, I believe, because this is not a topic he is expert in and not a focus of his duties with the department.

Would you expect a county sheriff deputy or state trooper to discuss West Nile Virus or HIV with you? Those diseases kill people, the officer enforces laws concerning people...

Unlike some internet posters, many professionals DON'T express an opinion or set themselves up as experts when they lack the knowledge to speak intelligently on a given subject.


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## anonymous7242016

So far so good in my area. No dead deer, no stench. I don't know how I am not finding it.
With all the low land that is in the area I would think the area would be prime breeding grounds for the midge.
Glassed the fields last evening. Only saw 6 deer compared to 30 or 40.........but.............one, the wheat stubble field has been sprayed, so there is nothing green growing in those fields now. Two, the beans are yellow, so they don't have the draw as they do when they are green. So I didn't really get too concerned with the low deer sightings last night, not much of a reason to be where I was. Still finding a lot of tracks and can see browes evidence in the plots.
I did see 3 bucks. 1 yearling, 1 two year old, and one 3 year old or older.


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## anonymous7242016

Now compared to my post above. While at the landowners paying off the lease yesterday and talking about EHD. He has the Maple River in his back yard. He usually shines a spot light every evening around 10 pm across the the field behind the house. He said normally there will be 30 to 40 deer laying across the hill top. The past month he said he sees maybe 6 tops. 
He told me if I told him 2 months ago that this could happen, he would thought I was crazy. 
It is pretty unbelievable when you live in the area and are used to seeing large amounts of deer on a daily basis and then all of a sudden nearly zero. 
He did mention though that just a couple miles to the SE of his home that they are still seeing a lot of deer and the locals have not found any dead ones yet either.
So it just goes to say that you don't have to go too far from the "hot zone" and it is a completely different scenario................hence the reason for why "special" regulations for "special areas" is highly going to be an unlikely scenario come next season.


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## Chuck

I wonder how long a hard hit area would take to rebound? Would this create a sort of vacuum and then deer from surrounding areas would move in if the habitat is good? This could be good then it would spread the herd out. Not sure if works that way or not. HAs the DNR done any studies on this sort of thing?

If some areas have a 90% mortality rate then it would seem like it could take years to rebound.


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## Outdoorsman17

Chuck said:


> I wonder how long a hard hit area would take to rebound? Would this create a sort of vacuum and then deer from surrounding areas would move in if the habitat is good? This could be good then it would spread the herd out. Not sure if works that way or not. HAs the DNR done any studies on this sort of thing?
> 
> If some areas have a 90% mortality rate then it would seem like it could take years to rebound.



It's all going to depend on how long the the DNR drags their feet. If they make adjustments next year or the year after. I was just reading a thread on the Bestie river and they made "EMERGENCY" regulations and closed some area's off to fishing or harassing the fish due to low water. Something can be done immediately if they choose to do so. just saying

Here's the link
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=435765


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## Munsterlndr

Chuck said:


> I wonder how long a hard hit area would take to rebound? Would this create a sort of vacuum and then deer from surrounding areas would move in if the habitat is good? This could be good then it would spread the herd out. Not sure if works that way or not. HAs the DNR done any studies on this sort of thing?
> 
> If some areas have a 90% mortality rate then it would seem like it could take years to rebound.


Dispersing deer will move into the area in the spring. Deer are prolific, especially in the SLP, the area will repopulate very quickly. 

What occurred in the George Reserve is a good indicator. Without predation, studies have shown that whitetails population increases can be in the 1:20 to 1:25 over a 5 year period, meaning for every deer in the population at the start, by year 5 there will be 20 - 25 deer. Obviously predation will reduce those numbers substantially but it's still indicative that whitetail populations will recover pretty quickly.


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## Outdoorsman17

I might as well just say it right now instead of waiting till later. Fishing licenses are due april 1 so for the most part they have made the money. On the other hand deer licenses are just getting going and have not made the majority of revenue yet. Try and tell me it's not all about money and I'll tell you your blowing smoke up my butt.


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## habitatwizard

Outdoorsman17 said:


> I might as well just say it right now instead of waiting till later. Fishing licenses are due april 1 so for the most part they have made the money. On the other hand deer licenses are just getting going and have not made the majority of revenue yet. Try and tell me it's not all about money and I'll tell you your blowing smoke up my butt.


I agree man, this is a shame on dnr. Either way they are gonna have to change their deer regs cuz this is gonna take 5yrs to replace what we have lost.


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## sniper22mag

Outdoorsman17 said:


> I might as well just say it right now instead of waiting till later. Fishing licenses are due april 1 so for the most part they have made the money. On the other hand deer licenses are just getting going and have not made the majority of revenue yet. Try and tell me it's not all about money and I'll tell you your blowing smoke up my butt.


Right!


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## sniper22mag

bucknasty11208 said:


> It just amazes me how the conspiracy theorists continue on.
> Number of dead deer floating is so high that they can no longer keep it quiet? Keeping the full extent of EHD hush hush? Being kept on a media down low? Will EHD ever go away? Will the herd ever come back?
> 
> So how would everyone feel if the DNR came out and said that they believe the actual number of dead deer from EHD is in the neighborhood of 10-15,000? What would it mean? What what it mean if the DNR came out and said that they are whoafully understaffed and do not have the resources to stay on top of reported die offs and their numbers may not be totaly accurate? What would it mean if the DNR at the last seocond decided that no does could be killed in the effected counties? Would that save the day? Save the future of deer hunting as we know it? Would that appease everyone in the affected areas? It would all mean NOTHING!!!
> 
> The fact of the matter is this, the DNR is DAMNED if the do and DAMNED if they don't.
> It amazes me how some folks try and make it sound like the DNR is releasing these midge flys trying to decimate the deer herd while knowingly selling as many doe permits as possible to continue to make money. It also amazes me how it seems as though some folks think the DNR has some sort of magic cure for all of this. Guess what? THEY DONT! This is an act of nature and an act of God, plain and simple.
> 
> The fact of the matter is this. 1-The DNR does not have the manpower, budget, and/or resources to stay completely on top of this. 2-The media doesn't report this because frankly, they have more important things to report on. 3- EHD is going to put a big dent in the deer numbers in certain areas. 4- Hunting in those areas is going to be tough for a few years. 5- Last but not least, THERE IS NO GREAT CONSPIRACY BEING HATCHED BY THE DNR!!!


 You need some common sense . The Dnr has know about this sense July. That's well before tags where ever issued for does. But yet there are advertisements put for doe tags on sale. At the very least , the doe permits should have never been issued. NOT ONE!


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## atr2425

went yesterday to check a property of my families just. my grandfather lets one other family hunt there. we met the guy as we got there, he was leaving. He and his brother raise deer to sell to ranches, they have lost all 21 they had. Within a 2 mile stretch from their location to my families, they (along with the DNR) have found 42 within the last week. this is getting really really bad. 42 in less than 2 miles. no bucks were found among the 42, for whatever that may be worth.


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## Liver and Onions

hunterrep said:


> .........
> Also just picked up the September issue of Woods and Water News, there is a very generic 2 page report on the discovery of EHD in Ionia and Branch County. THAT NEWS IS 2 MONTHS OLD AND HUNTING SEASON IS HERE. SHAME ON THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!


???
That magazine is 1 month old. The deadline for articles in that magazine was around Aug 6th. At least look at the October issue before saying "SHAME ON THEM". Articles for this magazine were due about 2 weeks ago.

L & O


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## hunterrep

Liver and Onions said:


> ???
> That magazine is 1 month old. The deadline for articles in that magazine was around Aug 6th. At least look at the October issue before saying "SHAME ON THEM". Articles for this magazine were due about 2 weeks ago.
> 
> L & O


Yeah my bad. I saw September and assumed there would be some information in there, didn't really do the math. 
I'm just so distraught about this whole thing. One farm is wiped out and the other is 3 miles from a new find. 
Those who know me, know that I work my tail off for this time of year and it looks like it might be a complete loss. I live for this time of year and I have no excited feelings at all. All of the sudden, fall took on a whole different look. Self pity is my excuse.


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## bowhunter42

Hey skinner is there anyway i could see a copy of that map? I hunt in barry county. Thanks.

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----------



## Liver and Onions

hunterrep said:


> Yeah my bad.........


Clearly you have a passion for this subject and knowledge. Have you considered writing an article for the Nov. issue ? Give Tom a call and see if that assignment has already been given out. If that is not something you wish to do, how about a letter to the editor ? Would not require any research and you would be able to share your thoughts and opinions on how this is all shaking out. 

L & O


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## hunterrep

Liver and Onions said:


> Clearly you have a passion for this subject and knowledge. Have you considered writing an article for the Nov. issue ? Give Tom a call and see if that assignment has already been given out. If that is not something you wish to do, how about a letter to the editor ? Would not require any research and you would be able to share your thoughts and opinions on how this is all shaking out.
> 
> L & O


That's a good suggestion, I really don't write articles very well though. I do think I am going to call him and see if they do have somebody on it.

One thing I am planning this weekend is doing a segment with Tim Hart for the Q1 Buck Pole TV show. Tim is a friend of mine and I told him we need to get the word out about trigger control in the affected area. He was all for it, we just need to get our schedules together.


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## hunterrep

I just spoke with Tom from Woods N Water. They do have somebody on an article although I'm not convinced they are addressing the necessity for trigger control. Hopefully after our discussion he will suggest adding this aspect. He took my phone number for reference if needed and even he was unaware of the new areas and how quickly this thing is spreading. He was in agreement that education is needed to employ proper trigger control and I hope to see that their articles do address it, but for now, it is critical and up to us to educate our neighbors in and around these areas. It's just simply too late for the DNR to do anything about it and help these areas this year.


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## Chuck

I dont think it is to late, they could issue press releases and go on local TV news stations and explain what is going on and talk about trigger control in areas that are hit the hardest, a plea to hunters so to speak. Michigan out of doors on PBS could do a story on it. 

They even have these fancy new gadgets called computers that hook u to the world wide web, they could set up something quickly to inform people buying tags in those areas about the outbreak of EHD. Maybe when you buy a tag at a licensing agent in those areas or doe tags for those areas you get a brochure on EHD and explaining how some areas will need to be left up to a hunters judgement as to if they feel the need to kill every doe they see or not.

There is something that could be done, but since our DNR is understaffed and they could give a crap about DEER hunting they wont. It will be years before anything gets done and by then it will be too late.

Anything to get the word out is better than nothing at all. Most hunters I have talked to have no idea about it unless it has affected them directly.


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## BuckMark7305

I believe these numbers are skewed. These numbers are only numbers that are reported to the dnr. Not numbers that the dnr have found.plus the numbers that are not reported. I would believe the number is al least 2 times greater than what they list.

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## lodge lounger

bowhunter42 said:


> Hey skinner is there anyway i could see a copy of that map? I hunt in barry county. Thanks.


We are roughly 5 miles west of M-43 / Schultz Rd. We've been out to the property a couple times in the past two weeks and haven't yet found any dead deer or smelled anything out of the ordinary in covering maybe 80-100 acres. That being said, we weren't seeing as much sign as normal, and we didn't check out the creek on the property or the nearby lake. We should have a better update after this upcoming weekend.


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## Outdoorsman17

hunterrep said:


> I just spoke with Tom from Woods N Water. They do have somebody on an article although I'm not convinced they are addressing the necessity for trigger control. Hopefully after our discussion he will suggest adding this aspect. He took my phone number for reference if needed and even he was unaware of the new areas and how quickly this thing is spreading. He was in agreement that education is needed to employ proper trigger control and I hope to see that their articles do address it, but for now, it is critical and up to us to educate our neighbors in and around these areas. It's just simply too late for the DNR to do anything about it and help these areas this year.



That's what some of us have been saying all along. When you try and hide something it makes you look guilty. It's not too late they could have done something if they would have chose to



Outdoorsman17 said:


> It's all going to depend on how long the the DNR drags their feet. If they make adjustments next year or the year after. I was just reading a thread on the Bestie river and they made "EMERGENCY" regulations and closed some area's off to fishing or harassing the fish due to low water. Something can be done immediately if they choose to do so. just saying
> 
> Here's the link
> http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=435765


----------



## NovemberWhitetailz

BuckMark7305 said:


> I believe these numbers are skewed. These numbers are only numbers that are reported to the dnr. Not numbers that the dnr have found.plus the numbers that are not reported. I would believe the number is al least 2 times greater than what they list.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


The numbers are only the ones that have been lab tested and confirmed. They can only test for EHD if the deer was found within 24-36 hrs. Anything after that does not get reported I've found a total of 12 so far in gratiot county and reported them all but non have made the board because they were "too old" according to the dnr officer


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## Chuck

See this is what happend in the other counties also. After they got called and people started reporting dead deer then they werent interested anymore. They essentially stopped counting and now I see where in the Allegan SGA they have the numbers at 50-75 dead deer for 06 or 07. Well thats a big discrepancy percentage wise as to not knowing how many died.... and I also remember there being *A LOT* more than that reported.

They could have a map and numbers board for confirmed and unconfirmed totals. 

I wouldnt go so far as to say its a conspiracy but just lack of man power and also I still feel like a lot of the times they just dont care about deer too much.


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## NovemberWhitetailz

November Sunrise said:


> Furthermore, your claim that she made some statement to the effect of "the general public can't know how bad this is", as if she's admitting to some kind of DNR cover up, is even more asinine. You're absolutely clueless when it comes to both your understandings of deer management as well as your wacko conspiracy theories.


They why, at the start of the outbreak was the DNR allowing any reported deer to be posted. They weren't lab confirmed but they knew it was EHD. Now, everything has to be lab tested..... 24-36 hr window to find the deer. Generally the only way to find the deer is by smelling them. A deer that's been dead for less than 24hrs is hard to detect in some of the thick cover that's provided in the SLP. I've been a part of 12 reported deer just in Gratiot county that were a few days old and the offier said there is nothign thay can do. They can't accept anything that isn't able to be tested. Most people have a mon-fri job, I can't make it to my property until the weekend yet I continue to find loads of deer that go un-reported based on age.
You can bash me all you'd like NS, it's doesn't bother me when it comes from you. I have first hand knowledge of what's happening, she's read it in a book!


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## lodge lounger

HUBBHUNTER2 said:


> They why, at the start of the outbreak was the DNR allowing any reported deer to be posted. They weren't lab confirmed but they knew it was EHD. Now, everything has to be lab tested..... 24-36 hr window to find the deer. Generally the only way to find the deer is by smelling them. A deer that's been dead for less than 24hrs is hard to detect in some of the thick cover that's provided in the SLP. I've been a part of 12 reported deer just in Gratiot county that were a few days old and the offier said there is nothign thay can do. They can't accept anything that isn't able to be tested. Most people have a mon-fri job, I can't make it to my property until the weekend yet I continue to find loads of deer that go un-reported based on age.
> You can bash me all you'd like NS, it's doesn't bother me when it comes from you. I have first hand knowledge of what's happening, she's read it in a book!


Given that, realistically, little can be done about this, I don't know that having our wildlife biologists spend all their time checking dead deer is the wisest use of a fairly scarce resource. I do think the issue could do with more publicity, whether that involves tabulating unconfirmed reports, issuing press releases, or whatever. I also wonder if it is possible to do some sort of statistical prediction of the mortality rate in different areas based upon reports coming in. My guess is that the DNR gets a higher percentage of reporting on suspected EHD deaths than do they on hunter success, although I have absolutely nothing upon which to base this guess.


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## tdduckman

Chuck said:


> See this is what happend in the other counties also. After they got called and people started reporting dead deer then they werent interested anymore. They essentially stopped counting and now I see where in the Allegan SGA they have the numbers at 50-75 dead deer for 06 or 07. Well thats a big discrepancy percentage wise as to not knowing how many died.... and I also remember there being *A LOT* more than that reported.
> 
> They could have a map and numbers board for confirmed and unconfirmed totals.
> 
> I wouldnt go so far as to say its a conspiracy but just lack of man power and also I still feel like a lot of the times they just dont care about deer too much.


 
They have a Map I just posted the link in a new thread


TD


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## FISHMANMARK

What's done, is done. Alot of deer are dead, nothing is going to change it. I don't think we can't expect the DNR to change any regulations for a localized event.

I think what the DNR should be doing is educating the hunters that we may have a significantly reduced deer herd, and personal trigger management may be needed.

I would also like to hear some "real" numbers, we all know the "reported / confirmed" numbers are ridiculously low.


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## NovemberWhitetailz

lodge lounger said:


> Given that, realistically, little can be done about this, I don't know that having our wildlife biologists spend all their time checking dead deer is the wisest use of a fairly scarce resource. I do think the issue could do with more publicity, whether that involves tabulating unconfirmed reports, issuing press releases, or whatever. I also wonder if it is possible to do some sort of statistical prediction of the mortality rate in different areas based upon reports coming in. My guess is that the DNR gets a higher percentage of reporting on suspected EHD deaths than do they on hunter success, although I have absolutely nothing upon which to base this guess.


That's been my gripe, other than changing the reported numbers to only ones that have been lab tested. A prediction would be tough.... a safe # is to probably times the total confirmed by minimum of 3. The news report that aired last week one gentleman stated they were recieving hundreds of reports a day of dead deer so that would lead me to believe you have to multiply the confirmed # by a higher figure.


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## hunterjoeMI

I have found several dead deer and have reported them. All were old and most likely from July or early August. I have been out and about looking on our property and have not found any more "fresh" dead deer. 

Question -

Is anyone finding new dead deer? Deer that have died in the last week? Or has everyone given up looking? 

I realize only a hard frost is going to put an end to this, but just hoping maybe the worst has passed?


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## hunterjoeMI

Talked to may cousin this morning. We made the call - *no does *will be shot on our property until we reassess the situation on Oct. 13th. 

We will wait until we have a better understanding of the over all impact for our farm and also the surrounding area. We do not want to kill does we may have when 2 miles away they have been hit much harder by EHD.

Currently I am still getting good volume on my trial cams. Also, shinning in the local area last night did show there are still deer. However, some traditional areas with very high density of deer were way off on counts from usual. 

We will still hunt for the 3.5 year olds we hope are still alive. But nothing else is on the hit list for now. 

I believe this is the best plan moving forward for our land, surrounding land and those that hunt on our family property.


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## Waz_51

im sure you guys seen my posts about it finally showing up here in saginaw county...i did my best throughout this thread to keep praying that it wouldnt get here but my attempts were futile! FROST, please dear God give us FROST!


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## Skinner 2

hunterjoeMI said:


> I have found several dead deer and have reported them. All were old and most likely from July or early August. I have been out and about looking on our property and have not found any more "fresh" dead deer.
> 
> Question -
> 
> Is anyone finding new dead deer? Deer that have died in the last week? Or has everyone given up looking?
> 
> I realize only a hard frost is going to put an end to this, but just hoping maybe the worst has passed?


Saturday I had deer that barely had maggots crawling on them. So yes fresh. In this weather a deer can go from just dead to bones skin in a number of days.

I called the Plainwell office this moring and reported my finding. The DNR were very respectful and took down my information, name location of deer how many.....

I asked if they (DNR) planned on publishing the numbers people are calling in with and she said yes in later report. She also said that it would most likely be later in the year....


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## Bowhunt

hunterjoeMI said:


> I have found several dead deer and have reported them. All were old and most likely from July or early August. I have been out and about looking on our property and have not found any more "fresh" dead deer.
> 
> Question -
> 
> Is anyone finding new dead deer? Deer that have died in the last week? Or has everyone given up looking?
> 
> I realize only a hard frost is going to put an end to this, but just hoping maybe the worst has passed?


Yes, people are finding them fresh every day in Calhoun County. In fact, it seems to have exploded in the last week. Where it was primarily southern Calhoun, it is now being found everywhere at alarming rates. People having pics of bucks one day, finding them dead 3 days later.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bmac

Bowhunt said:


> Yes, people are finding them fresh every day in Calhoun County. In fact, it seems to have exploded in the last week. Where it was primarily southern Calhoun, it is now being found everywhere at alarming rates. People having pics of bucks one day, finding them dead 3 days later.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Trail cam pics went from dozens per day to none in the past week a few miles NE of Marshall in Calhoun Cty. There is no water on the property due to the drought so I haven't found any dead. The neighbors to the east have found several dead in their pond and said the stench out of their swamp is unbearable. Guess I'm going to be a duck hunter this fall.


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## wishiwashuntin

Just drove over the maple river at ransom rd. Two dead deer 3 that could barely get out of water that was just looking from the bridge. I have seen no deer in fields for miles around this is worse then people realize.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## sniper22mag

It's way worse than anyone realizes. The numbers do not even do it justice of what is actually going. It's pretty sad. This year is going to be bad . Next year is going to be horrible in the way of numbers of how.many deer will be out there.


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## Waz_51

you guys should take a look at the doozy that was just posted in my thread about ehd in saginaw...im sure you guys will get a kick outta that one... :rant:


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## habitatwizard

We are wiped out as of tonight. I am convinced from what I witnessed and smelled. Fix the fuken hunting regs.


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## Nocturnal Ghost

habitatwizard said:


> We are wiped out as of tonight. I am convinced from what I witnessed and smelled. Fix the fuken hunting regs.


Aren't you on tv tonite. I hope you don't talk like that on TV:lol::yikes:


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## Pumpkinhead

habitatwizard, where are you located?


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## shoot thru

ahh only 5% of hunters will be effected.. its a non issue..lol
sure feel bad for the youngsters in this area that wont get to enjoy the kind of hunting i had in my youth.. it is going to be a very long time if ever to get the population back...a quick frost would sure help.


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## November Sunrise

shoot thru said:


> ahh only 5% of hunters will be effected.. its a non issue..lol
> sure feel bad for the youngsters in this area that wont get to enjoy the kind of hunting i had in my youth.. it is going to be a very long time if ever to get the population back...a quick frost would sure help.


There are conservatively 600,000+ deer in the SLP. The number of called in EHD cases is under 3,000. Let's say the actual number of deer that end up killed is 10 times that (very doubtful that it will be anywhere near that extensive). But if so, that means that 95% of the SLP deer herd is intact going into the season. 

Local devastation in micro areas of a township is a horrible reality for those affected, but it doesn't equate to a region wide influence on a SLP deer herd which is spread across 10+ million acres.


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## Liver and Onions

Liver and Onions said:


> Map:
> http://www.michigan.gov/images/emergingdiseases/EHD_2012_Reports_map_394528_7.jpg
> 
> Map is like last week, only showing the ones that had samples taken and being positive. The earlier maps
> also show the suspected cases that were reported, but not tested. That map roughly doubled the number of townships with cases.
> 
> L & O


Sorry about quoting myself. I talked with T. Cooley in Lansing a few minutes ago. He told me that they would be going back to the map that shows both the confirmed and reported cases per township. As it was a few weeks ago, the map will be colored to distinguish between confirmed and reported cases.
This will roughly double the number of townships being colored in on the map and will give everyone a better idea how wide spread the outbreak actually is.
Thank you DNR.

L & O


----------



## hunterrep

November Sunrise said:


> There are conservatively 600,000+ deer in the SLP. The number of called in EHD cases is under 3,000. Let's say the actual number of deer that end up killed is 10 times that (very doubtful that it will be anywhere near that extensive). But if so, that means that 95% of the SLP deer herd is intact going into the season.
> 
> Local devastation in micro areas of a township is a horrible reality for those affected, but it doesn't equate to a region wide influence on a SLP deer herd which is spread across 10+ million acres.


Jeff I say this with the utmost respect for you. I'm not sure if you are offering consolation, trying to simply prove your point, or being optomistic but sorry man, that doesn't make me, and I'm sure many others feel one little bit better. My hunting is done in Michigan this year and probably several more years. Both farms devestated and nothing left to hunt. And I mean nothing in the literal sense. I realize I am in the hot zone but this thing is growing exponentialy based on guys I am talking to and it is taking most, if not all of the resident herds. I didn't believe others when they were claiming this but I am a witness to it now based on no tracks, no sign, and zero pictures so please spare the exaggerating defense. I can't even imagine what this is going to do property prices. Good deer hunting is the only thing that was holding the prices at a reasonable level. 
Sorry but I just don't want to hear from guys who aren't affected try and downplay it, say it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, etc., not right now, the stinging is just too intense for me to put on a happy face and offer any sort of agreement even though you may be absolutely correct.


----------



## Chuck

The majority of the deer in the SLP are in a narrow band threw the middle of the state in unit 486. When you get towards the edge counties the numbers start to drop off considerably. Sure there are areas towards Detroit area that can not be hunted that have a high population of deer but can you factor in those deer numbers as they can not be hunted? Are these numbers factored in to the count??

So if there is a large deer die off in those areas (the outer edges) then a lot more than 5% of hunters are affected especially as deer disperse over the years to fill in on land with preferred habitat. Now also factor in large amount of deer die offs (estimated to be 90% in hot zone areas) and as wide spread as it seems to be this year and huston we have a problem and *A LOT* more than 5% will be effected. Will there be a large number of hunters who still shoot every doe they can? I bet there will be.

I also believe the numbers of dead EHD deer are far greater than what the DNR or anyone will ever know. 

Is there any DNR Biologist or any recruits out on the ground checking areas with high deer die off rates? Will deer that are not tested be calculated in the final count? They havent been in the past so why would we believe they would be now? Has the DNR done any kind of media blitz or press release to inform hunters and people about EHD? How to report it? And any and all other pertinent information? 

All I have to go on is past experience. There are 4 counties I hunt in that have been threw this over the past few years and in all cases not even 10% of actual numbers have been reported by the DNR. I base this on just the few of the many hunters in these areas that I have talked too. I highly doubt the hunters and farmers in these counties that I have talked to are the only ones who have found deer and reported them. In the past when people I know called to report dead deer they were brushed off after it was confirmed that EHD was in there area. So obviously not all areas are treated equal.

I understand the DNR can not do anything to stop it. But they could try to give the most accurate count possible of confirmed and unconfirmed cases. With todays mapping software a map could easily be made with pin points exactly where and how many deer were found dead. There is a lot the DNR could do but instead as usual they will do there best guestimate and it will be on the low side to keep hunters shooting does and buying tags. The DNR wants our deer herd eliminated. If they get there way the numbers will be 10 Deer per sq mile.

I feel bad for the guys who are in areas where the deer die off is high. It takes years with Michigans current hunting pressure for the deer to recover. At least in areas where I hunt and have seen this. 

These are just my opinions and thoughts based on years of hunting experience and based on spending 150-200 days a year outside chasing whitetail. Maybe its time I give up whitetails and just go on a 3 week wapiti hunt every year. It would pry be cheaper and a lot more rewarding to hunt in states where the DNR gives a crap. I just see the future of MI hunting and its not good. There will be fewer deer to hunt and hunter retention will drop even more.


----------



## Liver and Onions

November Sunrise said:


> There are conservatively 600,000+ deer in the SLP. The number of called in EHD cases is under 3,000. Let's say the actual number of deer that end up killed is 10 times that (very doubtful that it will be anywhere near that extensive). But if so, that means that 95% of the SLP deer herd is intact going into the season.
> 
> Local devastation in micro areas of a township is a horrible reality for those affected, but it doesn't equate to a region wide influence on a SLP deer herd which is spread across 10+ million acres.


I think 30,000 dead deer from this outbreak is very optimistic. Those of us not affected yet, are hoping to get by this year and wonder about the future. Look at the charts from the past 12 years. EHD is here to stay at some level. Southern Michigan counties/townships not affected yet might be the counties that experience the most severe outbreaks in the future. Who knows ? Not every deer biten by a midge carryting EDH will die so at some point our herd will be better protected from this disease. 

L & O


----------



## November Sunrise

hunterrep said:


> Jeff I say this with the utmost respect for you. I'm not sure if you are offering consolation, trying to simply prove your point, or being optomistic but sorry man, that doesn't make me, and I'm sure many others feel one little bit better. My hunting is done in Michigan this year and probably several more years. Both farms devestated and nothing left to hunt. And I mean nothing in the literal sense. I realize I am in the hot zone but this thing is growing exponentialy based on guys I am talking to and it is taking most, if not all of the resident herds. I didn't believe others when they were claiming this but I am a witness to it now based on no tracks, no sign, and zero pictures so please spare the exaggerating defense. I can't even imagine what this is going to do property prices. Good deer hunting is the only thing that was holding the prices at a reasonable level.
> Sorry but I just don't want to hear from guys who aren't affected try and downplay it, say it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, etc., not right now, the stinging is just too intense for me to put on a happy face and offer any sort of agreement even though you may be absolutely correct.


I've said repeatedly that for those affected this is a horrible reality. There's no denying that nor am I trying to. 

But that doesn't, in my estimation, deny the need for perspective. Within this thread there have been conspiracy theories, claims of doom and gloom for the whole region, and so forth. Not certain why I waste my time doing so, but I think it's indeed fair and in fact helpful to point out the big picture perspective. 

However, since I have mentioned looking at the big picture several times now, I will cease and desist from any further commentary on that point, as I don't want to be perceived as rubbing salt in anyone's wounds, as that is not my intent.

I'm sorry that you and many others are having to deal with this my friend.


----------



## Fishnmachine

Anybody seen the new numbers yet today?

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## jatc

November Sunrise said:


> I've said repeatedly that for those affected this is a horrible reality. There's no denying that nor am I trying to.
> 
> But that doesn't, in my estimation, deny the need for perspective. Within this thread there have been conspiracy theories, claims of doom and gloom for the whole region, and so forth. Not certain why I waste my time doing so, but I think it's indeed fair and in fact helpful to point out the big picture perspective.
> 
> However, since I have mentioned looking at the big picture several times now, I will cease and desist from any further commentary on that point, as I don't want to be perceived as rubbing salt in anyone's wounds, as that is not my intent.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry that you and many others are having to deal with this my friend.



Now this, boys and girls, is a well thought out class act type of post. I really wish we had more of this around here. It is OK to have an opinion and to debate said opinion based on each individuals experience and overall knowledge, but at the same time we have to somewhat try to understand where the other guy is coming from as well and show some decorum, even sympathy at times, in the process.

Thanks Jeff.


----------



## hunterrep

November Sunrise said:


> I've said repeatedly that for those affected this is a horrible reality. There's no denying that nor am I trying to.
> 
> But that doesn't, in my estimation, deny the need for perspective. Within this thread there have been conspiracy theories, claims of doom and gloom for the whole region, and so forth. Not certain why I waste my time doing so, but I think it's indeed fair and in fact helpful to point out the big picture perspective.
> 
> However, since I have mentioned looking at the big picture several times now, I will cease and desist from any further commentary on that point, as I don't want to be perceived as rubbing salt in anyone's wounds, as that is not my intent.
> 
> I'm sorry that you and many others are having to deal with this my friend.


I would never accuse you of having anything but compassion and your post wasn't percieved as rubbing salt in the wound. You know how I feel about what a stand up guy you are.
I just wanted to try, if possible, to put into words just how gut-wrenching this is and the fact that the big picture really means nothing to me and others at this point. I know and agree with what your saying, it just doesn't matter at this point. 
My biggest passion, something I work on just about every weekend, spend way too much money on, something I study more than anything else and plan for more than anything else has suddenly been taken away. I look forward to this time of year and now my son and I can't spend that quality time together on our farms and reap the rewards of our hard work. 
Call me selfish, and I certainly am praying for an early frost so fewer people don't have to go through this, but right now not much matters to me in the deer hunting world. I will get over it but it sucks right now.


----------



## anonymous7242016

Hunterrep, have both farms been hit?
I didn't realize how bad it was in your area. 
What about TL? I know he is just up the road from you.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## hunterrep

bucksnbows said:


> Hunterrep, have both farms been hit?
> I didn't realize how bad it was in your area.
> What about TL? I know he is just up the road from you.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Yeah both farms. That second one we went to during the tour(the pretty one) is a complete loss. Zero tracks, zero pictures. Found 7 dead and smelled others. Since then, I've heard of them finding about 70 a half mile east in the Hog Creek and I'm sure there are more in that nasty section.
It just started on the other farm(the first one we went to) that we know of, although after investigating, it seems it has nowhere near the amount of deer it usually does based on the trails. Hoping that there might be something left there. Will pull cameras this weekend.
TL is certainly going to get it. He is right between me and another friend who originally discovered 7 in his pond Sunday. He just checked his pond 3 days prior so I think it is just starting to hit certain places.


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## kerby1

Email sent to Feds and response recently. The deer was retrieved and confirmed positive. Did not want to put names in, or full email thread. Confrimed EHD in Shiawassee Federal and Saginaw County. 

Part of response 2
The information that... has been able to provide to the Refuge, State, Federal and Michigan DNR disease control in the last 3 weeks has been valuable to help confirm EHD cases in the deer herd. 

part of response 1
Thanks..... Nice shots.

FYI - We went and got the buck that you reported and took it down to be analyzed. The animal that we brought last week proved positive to have died from EHD. We took the second animal today to confirm it for a second township. Thanks for the report.

Part of original email

Made it out all three days over the weekend. Just a couple of photos you might be able to use.


Sunday afternoon my buddy called, he was out in the airboat. He didn't go 1/4 mile from launch when he spotted a sick buck along river. He came & got me. Anyway the deer was standing in the water four of the five time we went past. As we headed back to pull boat deer was laying under a willow tree along bank of the river. Call me if you want to secure this deer. He was still alive around 7:00 pm last night. WE also located 5 more dead deer along river system. These deer were both in the confines of both Federal, state & private land. Besides that we went through 3 spots that had the same odor of a dead deer but did not get a visual on. They are dropping like flies! 


If you can put a boat in on the flint, (b-2 pool area) I think I can give you directions. It would not be too hard to locate deer. It is just downstream from were Flint dead ends @ the Shiawassee river on north side. About the location the hydrologist had the monitoring site set up. I'm sure it will be right where we last saw it last. Give me a call @ # below if you want complete directions to locate this deer.

Regards,

Sorry to hear about this as I hunt 300 acres in Saginaw County that boarders the refuge and the airboat is a guy that I hunt with and he shared the email thread so I do not want to share names as I was not part of the chain.


----------



## brushbuster

hunterrep said:


> Yeah both farms. That second one we went to during the tour(the pretty one) is a complete loss. Zero tracks, zero pictures. Found 7 dead and smelled others. Since then, I've heard of them finding about 70 a half mile east in the Hog Creek and I'm sure there are more in that nasty section.
> It just started on the other farm(the first one we went to) that we know of, although after investigating, it seems it has nowhere near the amount of deer it usually does based on the trails. Hoping that there might be something left there. Will pull cameras this weekend.
> TL is certainly going to get it. He is right between me and another friend who originally discovered 7 in his pond Sunday. He just checked his pond 3 days prior so I think it is just starting to hit certain places.


 Man i really feel sad for you guys. I went right past your farm Sunday night, I was travelling with one of your neighbors, (K.M.), and the stench was horrible. Ken showed me some pics of the bucks that went down from ehd and man were they awesome looking bucks. It's really quite a shame.


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## Waz_51

hunterrep said:


> Jeff I say this with the utmost respect for you. I'm not sure if you are offering consolation, trying to simply prove your point, or being optomistic but sorry man, that doesn't make me, and I'm sure many others feel one little bit better. My hunting is done in Michigan this year and probably several more years. Both farms devestated and nothing left to hunt. And I mean nothing in the literal sense. I realize I am in the hot zone but this thing is growing exponentialy based on guys I am talking to and it is taking most, if not all of the resident herds. I didn't believe others when they were claiming this but I am a witness to it now based on no tracks, no sign, and zero pictures so please spare the exaggerating defense. I can't even imagine what this is going to do property prices. Good deer hunting is the only thing that was holding the prices at a reasonable level.
> Sorry but I just don't want to hear from guys who aren't affected try and downplay it, say it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, etc., not right now, the stinging is just too intense for me to put on a happy face and offer any sort of agreement even though you may be absolutely correct.



precisely what i was trying to say...now it looks like i have to deal with it in my neck of the woods...the federal refuge is about 5 miles straight west of me...not good...


----------



## Waz_51

kerby1 said:


> Email sent to Feds and response recently. The deer was retrieved and confirmed positive. Did not want to put names in, or full email thread. Confrimed EHD in Shiawassee Federal and Saginaw County.
> 
> Part of response 2
> The information that... has been able to provide to the Refuge, State, Federal and Michigan DNR disease control in the last 3 weeks has been valuable to help confirm EHD cases in the deer herd.
> 
> part of response 1
> Thanks..... Nice shots.
> 
> FYI - We went and got the buck that you reported and took it down to be analyzed. The animal that we brought last week proved positive to have died from EHD. We took the second animal today to confirm it for a second township. Thanks for the report.
> 
> Part of original email
> 
> Made it out all three days over the weekend. Just a couple of photos you might be able to use.
> 
> 
> Sunday afternoon my buddy called, he was out in the airboat. He didn't go 1/4 mile from launch when he spotted a sick buck along river. He came & got me. Anyway the deer was standing in the water four of the five time we went past. As we headed back to pull boat deer was laying under a willow tree along bank of the river. Call me if you want to secure this deer. He was still alive around 7:00 pm last night. WE also located 5 more dead deer along river system. These deer were both in the confines of both Federal, state & private land. Besides that we went through 3 spots that had the same odor of a dead deer but did not get a visual on. They are dropping like flies!
> 
> 
> If you can put a boat in on the flint, (b-2 pool area) I think I can give you directions. It would not be too hard to locate deer. It is just downstream from were Flint dead ends @ the Shiawassee river on north side. About the location the hydrologist had the monitoring site set up. I'm sure it will be right where we last saw it last. Give me a call @ # below if you want complete directions to locate this deer.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Sorry to hear about this as I hunt 300 acres in Saginaw County that boarders the refuge and the airboat is a guy that I hunt with and he shared the email thread so I do not want to share names as I was not part of the chain.



good lord...ill be scouting later this week, ill be sure to let everyone know what i find (state side of course)


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## Waz_51

mike avery says that a credible source has informed him that there are 15 new deer suspected to be killed by EHD in Saginaw...not sure if its the ones that are being found by the guys in the air boat or not...man, this sucks!


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## Esta la verdad

I've been on this site quite a bit monitoring the EHD situation. I too held my breath for the longest time, hoping it wouldn't reach my area. Well, I can breathe easy now because it has and we're now looking at almost complete eradication within the last couple of weeks. I've had several people tell me it's not that bad.....then I walk them through the property, then reality sets in soon there after. This is a MUCH larger problem than people can even begin to comprehend. GOD have mercy when the crops come off because in my area, it's a mine field of carcasses awaiting the farmers.


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## Waz_51

Esta la verdad said:


> I've been on this site quite a bit monitoring the EHD situation. I too held my breath for the longest time, hoping it wouldn't reach my area. Well, I can breathe easy now because it has and we're now looking at almost complete eradication within the last couple of weeks. I've had several people tell me it's not that bad.....then I walk them through the property, then reality sets in soon there after. This is a MUCH larger problem than people can even begin to comprehend. GOD have mercy when the crops come off because in my area, it's a mine field of carcasses awaiting the farmers.


where are you located? are you reporting the dead deer?


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## Waz_51

i just spoke with the resident biologist at the Shiawassee National Wildlife Refuge and he confirmed the presence of EHD as well...he was veryful helpful and open with any questions that i asked and if he didnt know an answer, he was quick to point me in the direction that i could find one...he also informed me that there are NUMEROUS other deer that were sent to the lab within the last few days and all confirmed cases will be reported to the DNR so that the numbers will be put on the map...he said that the affected areas are currently confined to the National Wildlife Refuge, the State Game Area, and various parcels of private land that share borders with these two areas...lastly, he said that reports have been coming in since around labor day and recent trips through the NWR revealed quite a few deer that look to be on the way out...not lookin good for us up here either


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## fairfax1

I too will applaud poster November Sunsrise for offering a much needed level of rationality to this thread on EHD. Some of the charges and criticism offered have been outrageous nonsense. 

In the worst hit areas the impact is dramatic. Indeed. But, as NS explains not all areas have the disease, and not all areas that do have the disease are experiencing a dramatic die-off.

None of what he posted nor what I posted above minimizes the impact on the worst hit townships. But, to claim that DNR staffers are ignorant or lazy or uncaring tells us more about the poster than it does about the competency of the regulators. 

The fact of the matter is that there is very little that anyonce can be done to mitigate the impact; very little that the regulators can do, very little land owners can do. 

The criticism about license availability again demonstrates how little the posters know about the mechanics of our licensing policy and bureaucracy. That mechanism cannot turn on a dime, cannot change course quickly.......hunting guides have been printed, decisions on quotas made, computer programs encoded and made available to thousands and thousands of terminals throughout Michigan.....all of this implemented well before the severity of this outbreak became widely recognized. 

Yes, as those decisions were being made in early summer the outbreak was known to be occurring in Cass & Ionia counties..... but neither its eventual severity or scale of geography had yet to be determined. Stopping the implementation of the licensing machinery before a proper understanding of the impact would have been poor managment and irresponsible.

And even today its impact has not yet been fully measured: *first,* because it will take hunter reports collated via the DNR survey website & the paper survey to put the best measuring tools on the problem; *second,* way too many landowners today are NOT reporting animals they know to be dead on their lands. I have heard some of the most inane excuses: _"the DNR will make me bury 'em all"; "they will quarantine my property"; I don't want CO's getting to know my property"; "they can't do anything about it, so why call 'em in. _
You get the picture. If deer are not called in how in the world can the DNR know what is out there. The vast vast majority of dead are on private land....the DNR cannot and will not get search warrants to walk one's property looking for the dead that may or may not be there. 

Lastly, I received this email today from one of the active QD Co-Ops in the effected area:

*FYI ...There will be a public meeting held at Bertha-Brock park 2miles West of Ionia on M-21 at 7:00pm on Wednesday, September 19th on the EHD outbreak. The public is invited to attend. On hand will be DNR Biologist John Niewoonder and Chad Fedewa for some Q/A.. *


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## Liver and Onions

Fishnmachine said:


> Anybody seen the new numbers yet today?
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Since Labor Day, the reports have been released mid-afternoon on Wednesday. Before Labor Day, the reports were released late Tuesday afternoon. So maybe yet today, most likely tomorrow afternoon.

For anyone not seeing post # 552, the map this week will go back to having the confirmed townships and reported townships highlighted. This will help us to better visualize the size of the outbreak.

L & O


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## Esta la verdad

Waz_51 said:


> where are you located? are you reporting the dead deer?




I'm located in Gratiot County. I reported the first two, was told they were too decomposed to test, but I was told by the "investigators" on scene that they likely died of EHD. My response went something like, "Yes, I know they died of EHD, they don't have any physical injuries, they look perfectly healthy (besides the whole being dead thing) and they're both near water/thick cover." They kind of giggled at that remark and said they appreciated the call and be sure to call back if you find anymore. I have found several more, but after that waste of time and resources, I have not reported them. I spoke with T. Cooley, he made it clear they weren't going to do anything with regards to licensing this season, but maybe next. Unfortunately, this is the time to act and be pro-active. There's not much that can be done on private land, I understand that, but don't insult my intelligence by telling me that they couldn't shut down hunting on all the SGAs, which subsequently are located in and around the hardest hit areas. This would speed the recovery in these areas exponentially as most private land owners will make the proper decision when it comes to this years harvest. Quite frankly, the decision has already been made for them because they're aren't any deer left. However, if you look at the DNRs so called map, you'll see this isn't occurring in Gratiot County.


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## Outdoorsman17

Waz_51 said:


> i just spoke with the resident biologist at the Shiawassee National Wildlife Refuge and he confirmed the presence of EHD as well...he was veryful helpful and open with any questions that i asked and if he didnt know an answer, he was quick to point me in the direction that i could find one...he also informed me that there are NUMEROUS other deer that were sent to the lab within the last few days and all confirmed cases will be reported to the DNR so that the numbers will be put on the map...he said that the affected areas are currently confined to the National Wildlife Refuge, the State Game Area, and various parcels of private land that share borders with these two areas...lastly, he said that reports have been coming in since around labor day and recent trips through the NWR revealed quite a few deer that look to be on the way out...not lookin good for us up here either



That blows, thanks for the update though. I keep seeing turkey vultures circling around but can't pinpoint where there at. It's private anyways so I'll just wait and see what any neighbors have to say.


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## Waz_51

Esta la verdad said:


> I'm located in Gratiot County. I reported the first two, was told they were too decomposed to test, but I was told by the "investigators" on scene that they likely died of EHD. My response went something like, "Yes, I know they died of EHD, they don't have any physical injuries, they look perfectly healthy (besides the whole being dead thing) and they're both near water/thick cover." They kind of giggled at that remark and said they appreciated the call and be sure to call back if you find anymore. I have found several more, but after that waste of time and resources, I have not reported them. I spoke with T. Cooley, he made it clear they weren't going to do anything with regards to licensing this season, but maybe next. Unfortunately, this is the time to act and be pro-active. There's not much that can be done on private land, I understand that, but don't insult my intelligence by telling me that they couldn't shut down hunting on all the SGAs, which subsequently are located in and around the hardest hit areas. This would speed the recovery in these areas exponentially as most private land owners will make the proper decision when it comes to this years harvest. Quite frankly, the decision has already been made for them because they're aren't any deer left. However, if you look at the DNRs so called map, you'll see this isn't occurring in Gratiot County.



just keep doing the right thing by reporting the deer...i hunt the Shiawassee SGA quite regularly to keep the pressure off of my private land but i dont know how thats gunna work out anymore...might be headed north to my old stomping grounds on state land in clare, if i can afford it!


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## Waz_51

Outdoorsman17 said:


> That blows, thanks for the update though. I keep seeing turkey vultures circling around but can't pinpoint where there at. It's private anyways so I'll just wait and see what any neighbors have to say.


considering where the refuges are located and where youre at...it had to get here somehow so im sure its more widespread than we know...i live 5 miles straight east of the NWR and have been seeing considerably less deer tracks in the last week but i was attributing that to movement patterns changing...now im not so sure...:sad:


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## Outdoorsman17

my parents are about 4-5 miles straight west of SGA

thanks Waz


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## Jigin-N-Grinin

Waz_51 said:


> ...might be headed north to my old stomping grounds on state land in clare, *if i can afford it*!


 
Hey Waz...If EHD and finances get the best of you this year. I will be more then happy to supply you a doe (or even two) to help you and your dad get through the year. 
But...in return, I would ask for 30 lbs of walleye and perch since you have no problems getting out fishing and catchin em' all year yound.

Deal???


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## FISHMANMARK

fairfax1 said:


> The criticism about license availability again demonstrates how little the posters know about the mechanics of our licensing policy and bureaucracy. That mechanism cannot turn on a dime, cannot change course quickly.......hunting guides have been printed, decisions on quotas made, computer programs encoded and made available to thousands and thousands of terminals throughout Michigan.....all of this implemented well before the severity of this outbreak became widely recognized.


 

Apparently, none of this matters. I was just reading about closing portions of the Betsie river due to low water levels.

They could easily shut down antler less harvest (or antler, for that matter) in the worst effected townships.


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## Outdoorsman17

FISHMANMARK said:


> Apparently, none of this matters. I was just reading about closing portions of the Betsie river due to low water levels.
> 
> They could easily shut down antler less harvest (or antler, for that matter) in the worst effected townships.



Thanks for saving me the time of posting it again. 

Simply unbelievable how some posters only see what they want to see.


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## stndpenguin

Though it sucks to hear about the time and money and sweat youve put into your properties.. it cant feel like a total loss can it? Theyll be back in a few years.. and you never know whats still around.. hopefully its almost over

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## johnhunter

Nocturnal Ghost said:


> Might not be your best bet Dan. I've logged about 1000 miles driving in this great state of ours since Saturday most of it in SLP I've seen one road kill, 3 deer alive deer and those miles were driven mostly at daybreak and dusk.
> The areas were deer densities are lower it is not as evident, and when I talk to people that are not on here (MS) and live in these lower density areas they have not even heard of EHD let alone went looking for it.


I think it's a splendid bet. Do you honestly believe that 67% of the land mass of the SLP will be "infected to some extent" by EHD, as asserted per post #599? If you do, I'm perfectly serious about wagering.

EHD is absolutely a very unfortunate event where it occurs. It is nothing new, though this appears to be the most widespread incidence we've had of it in Michigan. Jperry is quite correct that its effect is overwhelmingly transitory.


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## Liver and Onions

farmlegend said:


> ...... Do you honestly believe that 75% of the land mass of the SLP will be "infected to some extent" by EHD, as asserted per post #599? ............


2/3 = 66.7%, not 75%. 
In a few hours the DNR map will be out showing the townships with reported cases. On Monday I was told that this map would include all cases, both confirmed and simply reported. 
Perhaps you wanted to say 1/3 of the SLP being affected this year N.G ? This year is bad, but I'm more worried about what lies before us in the years ahead.

L & O


----------



## Outdoorsman17

Liver and Onions said:


> 2/3 = 66.7%, not 75%.
> In a few hours the DNR map will be out showing the townships with reported cases. On Monday I was told that this map would include all cases, both confirmed and simply reported.
> Perhaps you wanted to say 1/3 of the SLP being affected this year N.G ? This year is bad, but I'm more worried about what lies before us in the years ahead.
> 
> L & O



Can you please post the link when the updated info comes out?

Thank you


----------



## corkcoupons

found 4 dead deer in ponds in Oscoda County.


----------



## LoBrass

corkcoupons said:


> found 4 dead deer in ponds in Oscoda County.


That's a new direction. I'd be filing a report fer sure.

I have checked water sources on 2 properties in Hillsdale County and one in Monroe County in the last week. Glad to report I have not found any dead game animals.

My son and I will check again this weekend while out chasing geese and deer.

According to the latest map I had seen, the closest case is about 15-20 miles away. Too close for comfort.


----------



## Mightymouse

Liver and Onions said:


> This year is bad, but I'm more worried about what lies before us in the years ahead.
> 
> L & O


I was just reading a quote from Bill Winke (Midwest Whitetail) and he was talking about when his area got hit hard by EHD back in 1999. He said they lost 40% of their deer population, recovery back to the pre EHD deer numbers took 4 years he said.

Deer are pretty good breeders (not to the extent of rabbits or pig's but they do ok) and will do their part to rebuild the population starting in a month or so. The biggest determining factor to how your area's rebound is going to be trigger control in my opinion. Hopefully if people realize that numbers are down they will excercise some restraint (and common sense) and limit their harvest if necessary for a few years. 

Good luck to all those hunting in the effected area's this year. Hopefully things aren't quite as bad as some are anticipating. Remember, there is a lot more to a successful hunt and a successful season than just harvesting deer. Get out there and enjoy it, the season will be over before you know it!!


----------



## Skinner 2

stndpenguin said:


> Though it sucks to hear about the time and money and sweat youve put into your properties.. it cant feel like a total loss can it? Theyll be back in a few years.. and you never know whats still around.. hopefully its almost over
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Well look at it this way. My dad purchased our property, enought for him and I to hunt on and sometimes a guest. My dad was getting too old to find new places to hunt after his state land hunting area were clear cut.

My dad also most lost his bow hunting a few years back. He got that back withan age discrimination case against the state band crossbows.

My dad is now 85 years old. we just hung a new ladder stand for him 3 weeks ago. food plots look good. 

Pass forward to Saturday. Land stinks, found 7 dead deer without really looking. dead deer can be seen from our stands... Maybe it would be a good cover scent..... Long as the deer don't hear us puking.

OK so what it takes 3 years to recover...... Will my dad still be able to hunt then. His life savings paid for the property his income is SS and a small pension check. Me single income familly no help there on money front.

He cannot afford to rent or lease anything. 

My dad spends ma lot of time on this property even hunting by himself. He would call people to help him get the deer out if I was not there. This hunting and fishing is what keeps him going. 

Right now I don't know what to do....

Skinner


----------



## Skinner 2

LoBrass said:


> That's a new direction. I'd be filing a report fer sure.
> 
> I have checked water sources on 2 properties in Hillsdale County and one in Monroe County in the last week. Glad to report I have not found any dead game animals.
> 
> My son and I will check again this weekend while out chasing geese and deer.
> 
> According to the latest map I had seen, the closest case is about 15-20 miles away. Too close for comfort.


Keep your fingers crossed. A neighbor just found four dead in one of his ponds in Hillsdale. I do ot know what township.

Skinner


----------



## Esta la verdad

Question: How exactly do deer pass immunities on when they're dead? Either killed by the virus, or the ones that do survive and are killed by hunters before they can "pass it on?". That's what concerns me the most, it's great to be optimistic and a know it all about how this whole process works, but many are talking as if the season(s) have taken place! Michigan is somewhat unique when it comes to the number/length/timing of seasons, in fact, nobody does it better (slaughter). So, when you consider that, along with the fact that the largest SGAs are along the watershed areas that are being hit the hardest, you begin to see why private land owners in these areas are even more concerned. I agree with the statement of "If you think this year's bad, wait until next year." It's ludicrous for people outside these areas to argue against the reality that's occurring daily in affected areas. We aren't other states and comparing Michigan to Illinois, Iowa, Ohio, Montana, Kansas, Missouri, etc is preposterous! They have hunters who can show trigger restraint and officials who actually care about the quality of their deer herds. Comparing properties in Michigan to Pike County Illinois is one of the most ridiculous comparisons I've ever heard. Of course they're going to recover faster, as the poster stated, that area is covered in Outfitter owned properties. They probably didn't take and animal for a 2-3yr period so it could recover. Do you really expect that to happen here?!?!?! Here's your sign, and your tags.


----------



## Ridge_runner7

Jackson County-
19 dead along the Kalamazoo River in a 1 mile stretch. 27 found on a farm near 145 exit off 94.


----------



## shoot thru

Liver and Onions said:


> Looking at this number.
> 
> A circle with a radius of 2 miles would equal about 12 1/2 square miles. At 50 deer per sq. mile would mean around 625 deer. 250 dead deer would be 40% of the deer known to be dead within that area.
> How many others are dead and have not been found is a big ? mark.
> 
> Is 50 deer per sq. mile a good estimate for your area in Branch county ?
> 
> L & O


50 per sq mile that would be a very moderate number.. there was a very good population in this area. many nights a mile ride you could see 50-75
just in a few fields. the section i live in and hunt alot is actually a 2 mi section..as is the one across the rd from me. 
the next section over has alot of lake bottoms.and hog creek runs thru them all.. i know a ton of deer have been found on them lake bottoms and along hog creek.. im not even counting them..usually a trip just before dark all the way around this 2 mi section i was not unusual to see 100 deer.. now it mabe a fawn or 2..


----------



## NovemberWhitetailz

According to Ashley Hippler Michigan has only experienced the E2 strain of EHD.... Up to this year. We are now involved with the E6 strain which can result in up to 90% die offs, according to her! Do we have 90% die offs.... no! Hopefully it never rears it's ugly face again but EHD is here to stay ladies and gents. And as Jperry stated, yes a deer that survives EHD is immune to that strain, however there are 5 others it can come in contact with and die from. There is however, NO known facts that state that EHD immunity can be passed down to offspring. At this point, it's purely an assumption


----------



## Waz_51

jperry8 said:


> This again shows you are having a hard time understanding this virus. That's right virus.
> 
> The milk river has produced some great deer already this season. And they were affected by EHD in local areas there this year again.
> 
> Pike county Illinois was hit as hard back in 2007, as any area I've heard of since learning about EHD. This area was at a very high density at the time and they had reported as many as 200 deaths in local sections. And 90% die offs. This put panic and fear into the area as it is 100% private ground owned for either hunting, leasing to outfitters, ag. / leased land. Do a search for Pike county Illinois outfitters and browse through their trail cam pictures over the last few years. See if you would pass up an opportunity to fill your freezer there today.
> 
> The midges that carry and transmit the virus are water dependent and drought is the trigger. There is not any history of spring die offs, or even early summer that I am aware of. And if there is another drought going into next year did you know that does that are infected and survive will be immune to the strain that they are infected by the previous season? They are also able to pass the immunity on to their off spring. So LONG term effects are a non issue.
> 
> They have dealt with EHD in the south for 50 years! And if they are drought stricken in most areas they do not have the freeze offs to stop the virus as we do. So if you want some info on it you might want to contact someone who handles it OFTEN. Not a random SNWR biologist.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and no. I also hunt in Hillsdale where there have been reports.
> 
> 
> 
> You would know all about ignorance. Mr. 100 DPSM.



some random biologist? ill take his word any day over yours...unless you produce some credentials that outshine his, i dont think its fair of you to question his credibility...he has been working closely with the labs that are processing the deer and is very knowledgeable with this disease...everybody knows that this disease is water/drought dependent but that was not my question...where does it originate and how do the midges contract it?

there is no history of spring and early summer die offs but that doesnt mean it isnt possible! how do you know that it wont happen? i pray to god that it doesnt...never before has the climate in this region been as it is now so this is the type of fallout that we deal with...its all new for us so nobody can predict what the future is going to hold


----------



## jperry8

Waz_51 said:


> some random biologist? ill take his word any day over yours...unless you produce some credentials that outshine his, i dont think its fair of you to question his credibility...he has been working closely with the labs that are processing the deer and is very knowledgeable with this disease...everybody knows that this disease is water/drought dependent but that was not my question...where does it originate and how do the midges contract it?
> 
> there is no history of spring and early summer die offs but that doesnt mean it isnt possible! how do you know that it wont happen? i pray to god that it doesnt...never before has the climate in this region been as it is now so this is the type of fallout that we deal with...its all new for us so nobody can predict what the future is going to hold


Here you go Mr. C. Little. It took all of two minutes to answer your question.


http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/39016/PDF



Age-grading of female C. sonorensis is signi&#64257;cant for
vector monitoring, control, arbovirus surveillance and for
gaining insight into the age distribution of &#64257;eld populations of
Culicoides. *In order to transmit BTV or EHDV, female midges
must feed on a viraemic host, become infected, and survive
the extrinsic incubation period before they can transmit virus
to a new host.* The extrinsic incubation period for transmission
of BTV or EHDV in C. sonorensis lies in the range of
approximately 5&#8211;26 days depending on the virus strain and
environmental temperatures (Whittmann et al., 2002). The
targeted control of biting midges would be most signi&#64257;cant
if &#64258;ies are older and potentially feed on viraemic animals.


----------



## Esta la verdad

Waz_51 said:


> some random biologist? ill take his word any day over yours...unless you produce some credentials that outshine his, i dont think its fair of you to question his credibility...he has been working closely with the labs that are processing the deer and is very knowledgeable with this disease...everybody knows that this disease is water/drought dependent but that was not my question...where does it originate and how do the midges contract it?
> 
> there is no history of spring and early summer die offs but that doesnt mean it isnt possible! how do you know that it wont happen? i pray to god that it doesnt...never before has the climate in this region been as it is now so this is the type of fallout that we deal with...its all new for us so nobody can predict what the future is going to hold


Don't sweat that guy, he's unbelievably skilled in the copy/paste department, no substance whatsoever.

I spoke with Tom Cooley directly and have heard second hand from a close friend who was in attendance at the meeting held by Ashley's informative meeting regarding EHD. The truth is, nobody is quite sure where the virus originates, but it is naturally occurring. Obviously, the midge transmit it and the more midge there are, the faster it's spread. Midges don't actually contract it, they have it on their mouth-parts after biting an infected animal and then bite one or more animals and the process continues. According to Tom, they have tested midge larvae over winter periods and found no evidence of the virus. The State is relying heavily upon outside sources to assist in understanding and documenting/testing for the disease. The truth is, nobody knows enough, even the experts. The impact won't truly be understood for a few years, when the dust settles and people search/scout their areas to see what's left. It won't be good though, I do know that.


----------



## Waz_51

Esta la verdad said:


> Don't sweat that guy, he's unbelievably skilled in the copy/paste department, no substance whatsoever.
> 
> I spoke with Tom Cooley directly and have heard second hand from a close friend who was in attendance at the meeting held by Ashley's informative meeting regarding EHD. The truth is, nobody is quite sure where the virus originates, but it is naturally occurring. Obviously, the midge transmit it and the more midge there are, the faster it's spread. Midges don't actually contract it, they have it on their mouth-parts after biting an infected animal and then bite one or more animals and the process continues. According to Tom, they have tested midge larvae over winter periods and found no evidence of the virus. The State is relying heavily upon outside sources to assist in understanding and documenting/testing for the disease. The truth is, nobody knows enough, even the experts. The impact won't truly be understood for a few years, when the dust settles and people search/scout their areas to see what's left. It won't be good though, I do know that.


thank you very much...i appreciate you putting this into perspective and actually answering my question to a degree...the copy and paste job is nice, if you can actually translate the scientific terms...however, it still didnt answer my question...oh well, i appreciate your input esta...so weird to think that its possible that the midge just develops this disease...so odd thats its actually quite scary!

jperry, i know how its transmitted...that wasnt my question but thanks anyway


----------



## jperry8

Esta la verdad said:


> Don't sweat that guy, he's unbelievably skilled in the copy/paste department, no substance whatsoever.
> 
> I spoke with Tom Cooley directly and have heard second hand from a close friend who was in attendance at the meeting held by Ashley's informative meeting regarding EHD. The truth is, nobody is quite sure where the virus originates, but it is naturally occurring. Obviously, the midge transmit it and the more midge there are, the faster it's spread. Midges don't actually contract it, they have it on their mouth-parts after biting an infected animal and then bite one or more animals and the process continues. According to Tom, they have tested midge larvae over winter periods and found no evidence of the virus. The State is relying heavily upon outside sources to assist in understanding and documenting/testing for the disease. The truth is, nobody knows enough, even the experts. The impact won't truly be understood for a few years, when the dust settles and people search/scout their areas to see what's left. * It won't be good though, I do know that*.



And you are unbelievably good at speculation. Which is just full of substance!:lol:


----------



## Waz_51

jperry8 said:


> And you are unbelievably good at speculation. Which is just full of substance!:lol:


:banghead3 some people are going to lose a lot to EHD..it may be speculation but not so much if its happening in your backyard


----------



## hunterjoeMI

There will be a public meeting held at Bertha-Brock park 2 miles West of Ionia on M-21 at 7:00pm (Wed Sept 19) on the EHD outbreak. On hand will be DNR Biologist John Niewoonder and Chad Fedewa for some Q/A.. 


I will be there. I am sure some of you will be too.


----------



## HTC

DNR just posted the updated map:

http://www.michigan.gov/images/emergingdiseases/EHD_2012_Reports_map_394528_7.jpg


----------



## hunterrep

I'm going to say this one last time and I truly do mean it with the utmost respect.
I'm not sure if some guys are posting on this thread offering consolation, if they want to argue, or are trying to bring some reality to this situation, or they just don't believe what some guys are going through.
Whatever the reason, it just isn't something that means squat to guys that are being hit with this (especially when it is followed by Chicken Little). You might be 100% right, and in time, I might want to hear and deal with it. Right now, I could give two ****s about the statewide impact, the rebound statistics, etc. 
Everybody that has been on here espousing these statistics are guys who aren't dealing with it. I truly hope you don't have to as it really sucks.
As we speak, my neighbor across the road is searching his 40 acres in West Central Hillsdale county. I can tell you that there are zero deer on my 43 acres across the road from his farm. NONE. That isn't a rumor, that is reality.
His text after me asking him for a report:

_Too many to count at this point. I'm getting sick to my stomach from the smell. Last count was 18. 7 bucks. Three from 120's to 135. And somebody stole my $500 reconyx camera._

Does this sound like consolation or stats are going to make him feel better right now? It won't. His season is over. This is his only place to hunt and it is his number one passion as it is mine.

When this is happening on your farms, and if it makes you feel better reading stats, go for it. For now, I, and I'm sure many others, do not want to hear it. Period.
Again, I say this respectfully and I hope nobody takes offense but this is something that is a nightmare for a lot of guys right now and there is no consolation at this time that will help. Eventually yes, right now, no.


----------



## HUBBHUNTER

HTC said:


> DNR just posted the updated map:
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/images/emergingdiseases/EHD_2012_Reports_map_394528_7.jpg


Thanks for posting, some may now see the real scope of "our" problem, others will keep their head in the sand.

I urge everyone to print a few copies of this map and post it in shops and stores where hunting licenses can be bought. Educating those hunters who otherwise wouldn't have a clue about whats going on is the only way to encourage trigger restraint and that is the only thing that will help our deer numbers recover.


----------



## hartman756

this week 4217 dead deer..........last week it was 2785...........





Edit: I thought the numbers they were posting included the confirmed and reported........just the map showed the confirmed.........maybe I missunderstood and the numbers posted(DNR) were only the confirmed and this week they added the additional ones that were reported but not confirmed either way it is a big jump!!





c hartman


----------



## Jigin-N-Grinin

Waz_51 said:


> .however, it still didnt answer my question...oh well, i appreciate your input esta...so weird to think that its possible that the midge just develops this disease...so odd thats its actually quite scary!
> 
> jperry, i know how its transmitted...that wasnt my question but thanks anyway


 *In order to transmit BTV or EHDV, female midges
must feed on a viraemic host, become infected, and survive
the extrinsic incubation period before they can transmit virus
to a new host.*


What part of this dont you understand ????


----------



## NovemberWhitetailz

hunterrep said:


> I'm going to say this one last time and I truly do mean it with the utmost respect.
> I'm not sure if some guys are posting on this thread offering consolation, if they want to argue, or are trying to bring some reality to this situation, or they just don't believe what some guys are going through.
> Whatever the reason, it just isn't something that means squat to guys that are being hit with this (especially when it is followed by Chicken Little). You might be 100% right, and in time, I might want to hear and deal with it. Right now, I could give two ****s about the statewide impact, the rebound statistics, etc.
> Everybody that has been on here espousing these statistics are guys who aren't dealing with it. I truly hope you don't have to as it really sucks.
> As we speak, my neighbor across the road is searching his 40 acres in West Central Hillsdale county. I can tell you that there are zero deer on my 43 acres across the road from his farm. NONE. That isn't a rumor, that is reality.
> His text after me asking him for a report:
> 
> _Too many to count at this point. I'm getting sick to my stomach from the smell. Last count was 18. 7 bucks. Three from 120's to 135. And somebody stole my $500 reconyx camera._
> 
> Does this sound like consolation or stats are going to make him feel better right now? It won't. His season is over. This is his only place to hunt and it is his number one passion as it is mine.
> 
> When this is happening on your farms, and if it makes you feel better reading stats, go for it. For now, I, and I'm sure many others, do not want to hear it. Period.
> Again, I say this respectfully and I hope nobody takes offense but this is something that is a nightmare for a lot of guys right now and there is no consolation at this time that will help. Eventually yes, right now, no.


 
Talk about a kick in the nuts.... took his camera too! 
Thanks for staying on top of this like many of us are trying!


----------



## hartman756

Liver and Onions said:


> 2/3 = 66.7%, not 75%.
> In a few hours the DNR map will be out showing the townships with reported cases. On Monday I was told that this map would include all cases, both confirmed and simply reported.
> Perhaps you wanted to say 1/3 of the SLP being affected this year N.G ? This year is bad, but I'm more worried about what lies before us in the years ahead.
> 
> L & O


 


Map looks a lot different with the reported cases also highlighted on the map!! 


c ahrtman


----------



## roo

Can someone post a link to the map or where to find it. I can't seem to locate it on the dnr website


----------



## Waz_51

Jigin-N-Grinin said:


> *In order to transmit BTV or EHDV, female midges
> must feed on a viraemic host, become infected, and survive
> the extrinsic incubation period before they can transmit virus
> to a new host.*
> 
> 
> What part of this dont you understand ????



*In order to transmit BTV or EHDV*

i know how its transmitted...it even shows a way to pass it from midge to midge...do you understand what i am saying or just intentionally being ignorant? 

WHERE DOES IT ORIGINATE?!

that is what ive been asking this WHOLE time...i dont know why some of you guys continue to show your unbelievable aptitude in selective hearing/reading...:banghead3


----------



## Hunt'N'Fish

roo said:


> Can someone post a link to the map or where to find it. I can't seem to locate it on the dnr website


http://michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_12150-283966--,00.html

For whatever reason, the dates and numbers have not been updated when I get on the site. Once you click on and open the Map, it shows the updated version.


----------



## HTC

HUBBHUNTER said:


> Thanks for posting, some may now see the real scope of "our" problem, others will keep their head in the sand.


 
No problem. I was kind of ignorant to this situation until a few days ago...I had not paid attention to this thread at all...I saw a local news clip about the problem and relaized they were talking about where I lived...(Kent County near the Ionia County Line). I started reading this thread and then I realized I had 20 plus deer at the feeder and food plot in my backyard every night all summer long....and for the past couple weeks there has been nothing. I first chalked it up to the change in season or thought they found something better to eat somewhere else. Now I am not so hopeful.


----------



## Waz_51

i cant find a map to correlate with the EHD map as to what townships are the ones that are affected...that one in Saginaw i believe is mine


----------



## HTC

Waz_51 said:


> i cant find a map to correlate with the EHD map as to what townships are the ones that are affected...that one in Saginaw i believe is mine


Google your county name with the words "township map" It will come right up.


----------



## Hunt'N'Fish

Waz_51 said:


> i cant find a map to correlate with the EHD map as to what townships are the ones that are affected...that one in Saginaw i believe is mine


Looks to be Spaulding Township from the township map i looked at.


----------



## Pumpkinhead

Buddy of mine just told me farmers were cutting corn in the Rives Junction area and found a buttload of dead deer in the corn. I am trying to get concrete numbers and where exactly.


----------



## Waz_51

Hunt'N'Fish said:


> Looks to be Spaulding Township from the township map i looked at.


could you provide a link to the map please?


----------



## Waz_51

nevermind, i found one...its definitely Spaulding...i live on the western edge of Bridgeport right by the Spaulding line...close enough for me...


----------



## roo

Well I have ehd confirmed to the east and northwest and suspected in every township surrounding me. It ain't looking so good


----------



## GettinBucky

Waz_51 said:


> i cant find a map to correlate with the EHD map as to what townships are the ones that are affected...that one in Saginaw i believe is mine


Hey Waz,

Don't know the exact Township but I know of deer that have been found dead in the entire Shiawassee state and Federal game area...I know of dead dear found near Evon rd to the east and Prior rd to the west of the refuge. Also know of dead deer in Chesaning area and private hunting land in the Saint Charles area.

Alot of deer were discovered over the last couple weeks by Goose and Youth duck hunters in the refuge. Many too old to be tested....just last night a couple fresh ones were located and sent to the lab for confirmation. As you can see by the map that area is now confirmed....the deaths in this area have been occurring thoughout the summer.

Not good news at all.....


----------



## Waz_51

GettinBucky said:


> Hey Waz,
> 
> Don't know the exact Township but I know of deer that have been found dead in the entire Shiawassee state and Federal game area...I know of dead dear found near Evon rd to the east and Prior rd to the west of the refuge. Also know of dead deer in Chesaning area and private hunting land in the Saint Charles area.
> 
> Alot of deer were discovered over the last couple weeks by Goose and Youth duck hunters in the refuge. Many too old to be tested....just last night a couple fresh ones were located and sent to the lab for confirmation. As you can see by the map that area is now confirmed....the deaths in this area have been occurring thoughout the summer.
> 
> Not good news at all.....


i live not 5 miles SE of Evon rd...i figure its only a matter of time now...


----------



## Outdoorsman17

I was just in bares in saint charles. They said alot have just recently been reported on the state and federal areas :sad:


----------



## GettinBucky

Waz_51 said:


> i live not 5 miles SE of Evon rd...i figure its only a matter of time now...


All we can do is cross or fingers that the cold last night will atleast slow this thing down a bit.....

Talked to a neighbor of a farm I hunt in Gratiot county this morning and he knows of dead deer about 5 miles from that area but none found in our immediate area....i am trying to remain hopeful but it still doesn't loook good!!!


----------



## Whitetail Freak

Droppin like flies in northern Kent co. 3 so far on my property and I've only looked on the edge of the yard. A drove over a creek today and there were about 50 vulture circling it, never seen any thing like it, and yeah I could smell them.


----------



## anonymous7242016

What I don't get is the numbers..............

Washtenaw county 3 townships either confirmed or possible deaths 3 is the number posted

Lenawee county 2 townships either confirmed or possible deaths 1 is the number posted.

The map says numbers indicate the number of reports from that county.
What I'm not getting is two townships = 1 report in Lenawee.

By the way my township has now joined the possible death catagory. Montcalm went from 1 to 6 to 12 to 67 and then 172......a 105 jump from last report.

FN sucks man is all I can say. 
Going to get ahold of the boys tonight and let them know we got to hold off on the does and assess the situation before killing any and if the sightings seem normal compared to years past maybe even limit the amount we take a little bit.

I will say I have not found or smelled any, but of course I haven't been off our property at all (280 acres). I know one area may not get hit and then 5 miles down the road it does. 
FN sucks!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Nocturnal Ghost

farmlegend said:


> I think it's a splendid bet. Do you honestly believe that 67% of the land mass of the SLP will be "infected to some extent" by EHD, as asserted per post #599? If you do, I'm perfectly serious about wagering.
> 
> EHD is absolutely a very unfortunate event where it occurs. It is nothing new, though this appears to be the most widespread incidence we've had of it in Michigan. Jperry is quite correct that its effect is overwhelmingly transitory.


 The latest map is at 71% of the counties have atleast a reported case and that number is going to go up as the crops come down. I saw a cut bean field today that had these "piles" in it upon closer look it was dead deer. Damn, Dan I don't want to win this bet but we need to get the word out. Its ugly out there.


----------



## legard29

I got that right was out in the state game area in muskegon the other day, and it was like a.desert, no deer sign at all, didn't see any dead ones though, heard about the EHD outbreak, called the headquarters for the game area, said yep we have recovered or counted 40+ in the last couple weeks just along the river, and there's water everywhere, the official numbers for muskegon county.don't even show the game area being effected, and the county only had 8 confirmed, the numbers the state is putting out aren't accurate, its much higher, this really fn sucks to put.it lightly, what a fn waste

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## Outdoorsman17

I hate to say this but after this next weekend I can't even imagine how many will be reported. With all the antler less hunters, youth hunters afield the number could sky rocket as more are reported:sad:


----------



## hunterrep

Update:
Neighbor just finished his walk in Hillsdale county. 27 dead on 40 acres. 11 bucks and some real nice ones. Smelled more coming from corn field.
Map says 89 in Hillsdale. I know of over 100 within a half mile of my farm alone.
Sorry Dan, it pains me but Im betting against you.


----------



## anonymous7242016

Its too bad we can't get a guess of how many truely have or will be killed due to this compared to the # reported.
Someone said the reported is about 10% of the the total. That seems awfully high as that would put us over 40k. I would think that if the 10% "rule" is true, the DNR would know this and at this rate 40k becomes more than just "nothing to worry about"


----------



## NovemberWhitetailz

Really sucks too. I've been promising my nephew who recently turned 5 that i'd take him out with me for the early anterless season and I would try and get one with a bow. Planned to film it all....... With him turning 5 just a couple days ago his attention span is short. Keeping him in a blind will be tough so I planned to shoot at the first adult doe. Now I might have to make up excuses as to why I can't shoot it and try and get a decent survey in the field :rant:


----------



## Outdoorsman17

bucksnbows said:


> What I don't get is the numbers..............
> 
> Washtenaw county 3 townships either confirmed or possible deaths 3 is the number posted
> 
> Lenawee county 2 townships either confirmed or possible deaths 1 is the number posted.
> 
> The map says numbers indicate the number of reports from that county.
> What I'm not getting is two townships = 1 report in Lenawee.
> 
> By the way my township has now joined the possible death catagory. Montcalm went from 1 to 6 to 12 to 67 and then 172......a 105 jump from last report.
> 
> FN sucks man is all I can say.
> Going to get ahold of the boys tonight and let them know we got to hold off on the does and assess the situation before killing any and if the sightings seem normal compared to years past maybe even limit the amount we take a little bit.
> 
> I will say I have not found or smelled any, but of course I haven't been off our property at all (280 acres). I know one area may not get hit and then 5 miles down the road it does.
> FN sucks!!!!!!!!!



Seems the DNR is not so much in a hurry to post "ALL" the results. What I heard in bares sport shop was very disturbing:sad:


----------



## NovemberWhitetailz

bucksnbows said:


> Its too bad we can't get a guess of how many truely have or will be killed due to this compared to the # reported.
> Someone said the reported is about 10% of the the total. That seems awfully high as that would put us over 40k. I would think that if the 10% "rule" is true, the DNR would know this and at this rate 40k becomes more than just "nothing to worry about"


MONEY MONEY MONEY..... It's all about MONEY!


----------



## Waz_51

bucksnbows said:


> What I don't get is the numbers..............
> 
> Washtenaw county 3 townships either confirmed or possible deaths 3 is the number posted
> 
> Lenawee county 2 townships either confirmed or possible deaths 1 is the number posted.
> 
> The map says numbers indicate the number of reports from that county.
> What I'm not getting is two townships = 1 report in Lenawee.
> 
> By the way my township has now joined the possible death catagory. Montcalm went from 1 to 6 to 12 to 67 and then 172......a 105 jump from last report.
> 
> FN sucks man is all I can say.
> Going to get ahold of the boys tonight and let them know we got to hold off on the does and assess the situation before killing any and if the sightings seem normal compared to years past maybe even limit the amount we take a little bit.
> 
> I will say I have not found or smelled any, but of course I haven't been off our property at all (280 acres). I know one area may not get hit and then 5 miles down the road it does.
> FN sucks!!!!!!!!!



the number that shows up over the county is the number of confirmed cases...even tho there might be more suspected cases in one county, the number only reflects positive test results


----------



## hunterjoeMI

I will be interesting to hear what the DNR says at the meeting at Bertha Brock in Ionia tonight. 

Hope it remains civil!


----------



## NovemberWhitetailz

Without trying to blast the DNR and their biologist anymore. Guessing the total deaths is hard. If they guess too high, many people will be irate that nothing is being done as far as tags which will then cost the state Millions because many people will not buy tags or not hunt. They are not willing to take on that type of responsibility. If they "guess" too low than everyone and their brothers will be blowing up the phone lines about lack of deer and that the numbers are incorrect. This way..... the "reported" puts all the blame on our shoulders. If you don't call them in, the numbers don't go up. 
I know they frustrated a lot of people when they took the first map of reported deer and changed it to Lab confirmed only. That turned a ton of people away and they stopped reporting finds all together because every deer was too old based on the labs. Had a conversation today with a friend about reporting deer and he stated he wasn't going to do that. They DNR pissed him off enough when he called in his first few findings when they said they couldn't be confirmed...... now he's well in to double digits and frankly just doesn't care anymore. It's sad, but true!


----------



## Outdoorsman17

HUBBHUNTER2 said:


> Without trying to blast the DNR and their biologist anymore. Guessing the total deaths is hard. If they guess too high, many people will be irate that nothing is being done as far as tags which will then cost the state Millions because many people will not buy tags or not hunt. They are not willing to take on that type of responsibility. If they "guess" too low than everyone and their brothers will be blowing up the phone lines about lack of deer and that the numbers are incorrect. This way..... the "reported" puts all the blame on our shoulders. If you don't call them in, the numbers don't go up.
> I know they frustrated a lot of people when they took the first map of reported deer and changed it to Lab confirmed only. That turned a ton of people away and they stopped reporting finds all together because every deer was too old based on the labs. Had a conversation today with a friend about reporting deer and he stated he wasn't going to do that. They DNR pissed him off enough when he called in his first few findings when they said they couldn't be confirmed...... now he's well in to double digits and frankly just doesn't care anymore. It's sad, but true!


Your post is logical and I agree, Thanks for staying on top of this and relating your findings


----------



## NovemberWhitetailz

Outdoorsman17 said:


> Your post is logical and I agree, Thanks for staying on top of this and relating your findings


 
Thanks.... It's purely an opinion though. No facts


----------



## Outdoorsman17

I did not mean just that post, all of them. Thanks to everyone that has posted something constructive to the topic.


----------



## habitatwizard

Just got my prescription of effexor xr to deal with this season.


----------



## anonymous7242016

Waz_51 said:


> the number that shows up over the county is the number of confirmed cases...even tho there might be more suspected cases in one county, the number only reflects positive test results


 
No it doesn't. Read the bottom of the map. It says the number reflects the numbers reported. The red squares on the map are where they have confirmed, due to testing, the orange is where possible ehd deaths have been reported.


----------



## anonymous7242016

HUBBHUNTER2 said:


> Without trying to blast the DNR and their biologist anymore. Guessing the total deaths is hard. If they guess too high, many people will be irate that nothing is being done as far as tags which will then cost the state Millions because many people will not buy tags or not hunt. They are not willing to take on that type of responsibility. If they "guess" too low than everyone and their brothers will be blowing up the phone lines about lack of deer and that the numbers are incorrect. This way..... the "reported" puts all the blame on our shoulders. If you don't call them in, the numbers don't go up.
> I know they frustrated a lot of people when they took the first map of reported deer and changed it to Lab confirmed only. That turned a ton of people away and they stopped reporting finds all together because every deer was too old based on the labs. Had a conversation today with a friend about reporting deer and he stated he wasn't going to do that. They DNR pissed him off enough when he called in his first few findings when they said they couldn't be confirmed...... now he's well in to double digits and frankly just doesn't care anymore. It's sad, but true!


 
A taxidermist to the west of me about 10 miles said he could smell them but wasn't going to call the DNR. He said "they are around here already more than I like, I don't need them here anymore than they have to be"


----------



## Waz_51

bucksnbows said:


> No it doesn't. Read the bottom of the map. It says the number reflects the numbers reported. The red squares on the map are where they have confirmed, due to testing, the orange is where possible ehd deaths have been reported.


hmmm, thats really odd...take this for an example, i live in saginaw and i know we only have 1 confirmed case...that is shown on the map to be true...maybe they went back to the old map but forgot to change the wording? im pretty sure that those numbers on each county do represent the number confirmed while the light orange townships are places where the possibility of EHD exists through reported sightings


----------



## Rasputin

Wow. I just scanned this 45 pages and, although I knew about the EHD, I had no idea it was this bad. I was planning to go down to Homer this weekend to shoot a couple does. I normally hunt up north where we are not overpopulated, so I like to do south to do my part at reducing the herd down there. 

I bought my 486 tag too soon, I guess. I think I'll go bird hunting this weekend and forget about shooting a doe in Homer.

Any reports about EHD in Homer along the river?


----------



## Outdoorsman17

Waz_51 said:


> hmmm, thats really odd...take this for an example, i live in saginaw and i know we only have 1 confirmed case...that is shown on the map to be true...maybe they went back to the old map but forgot to change the wording? im pretty sure that those numbers on each county do represent the number confirmed while the light orange townships are places where the possibility of EHD exists through reported sightings




There's dead deer all over in the SGA federal and state and the new update came out today what gives. Drive the boat by dozens of rotting carcasses and pick up a fresh one then post one. Am I missing something.


----------



## Waz_51

Outdoorsman17 said:


> There's dead deer all over in the SGA federal and state and the new update came out today what gives. Drive the boat by dozens of rotting carcasses and pick up a fresh one then post one. Am I missing something.


yeah i hear ya...they only have one confirmed on the map tho, thats what i meant...i know thats a far cry from the ugly truth tho...

wait for the next two weeks, ill bet that number grows exponentially


----------



## NovemberWhitetailz

bucksnbows said:


> A taxidermist to the west of me about 10 miles said he could smell them but wasn't going to call the DNR. He said "they are around here already more than I like, I don't need them here anymore than they have to be"


God that type of stuff bugs me. Same way in Hubb...... I welcome the DNR anytime i'm there, I have nothing to hide. Red flags go up everywhere when I hear those comments. Hell, if you report all kinds of dead deer they won't see a reason to check on you during hunting season because there won't be any to shoot! :lol:


----------



## Skinner 2

bucksnbows said:


> No it doesn't. Read the bottom of the map. It says the number reflects the numbers reported. .


NO it really states reports Not reported. " The numbers within each county equals the number of reports for that county."

Is this the number of people that called in??? 

Skinner


----------



## anonymous7242016

Skinner 2 said:


> NO it really states reports Not reported. " The numbers within each county equals the number of reports for that county."
> 
> Is this the number of people that called in???
> 
> Skinner


Right number of reports. 
So if I call in and report 17 deer does that equal 17 on the map or 1, because it was one report?
Going by Ionia's numbers I hope it is # of deer reported to be dead of EHD. 
What the number is not is confirmed.........at least by the way they word it on this weeks map.


----------



## anonymous7242016




----------



## Double Gun

Yes, St Joe just east of Thurston's furniture. Also east of town along the Kalamazoo.


QUOTE=Rasputin;4259473]Wow. I just scanned this 45 pages and, although I knew about the EHD, I had no idea it was this bad. I was planning to go down to Homer this weekend to shoot a couple does. I normally hunt up north where we are not overpopulated, so I like to do south to do my part at reducing the herd down there. 

I bought my 486 tag too soon, I guess. I think I'll go bird hunting this weekend and forget about shooting a doe in Homer.

Any reports about EHD in Homer along the river?[/QUOTE]


----------



## Moose57

Rasputin said:


> Wow. I just scanned this 45 pages and, although I knew about the EHD, I had no idea it was this bad. I was planning to go down to Homer this weekend to shoot a couple does. I normally hunt up north where we are not overpopulated, so I like to do south to do my part at reducing the herd down there.
> 
> I bought my 486 tag too soon, I guess. I think I'll go bird hunting this weekend and forget about shooting a doe in Homer.
> 
> Any reports about EHD in Homer along the river?


Rasputin, 

I can somewhat answer your question;
I drove to Homer this morning from Jackson. I bought some fishing gear out there this morning. The whole drive I looked for Deer... I did not see a single Deer in any field, this was just after daylight I left Jackson. The people at the store say there are Deer down out there in the fields and a few along the river. Just talked with my neighbor and he says the swamp on my property stinks...


----------



## lreigler

Judas Priest. All derived because we didn't get any f'kn rain. First it ruined all of our crops now it is ruining the deer herd. 
I haven't been to the farm in a month or so we live near the Barry/kent Border... but I should probably go take a look near our creeks and ponds. Luckily as I passed by after we chopped the corn I didn't notice anything... but didn't look too hard either.


----------



## Chuck

So why do they have a chart posting total numbers and a map with reported and confirmed then they change that to a map with just confirmed then they take away the chart and put it all in one map??? Man can they make it more confusing.

I hate to say it but when the corn comes down it will get worse, at least it did in the areas before. At least the DNR is paying attention this time around.

Maybe we should all get together with a big truck and start dumping these dead deer at the DNR head quarters. Then maybe they can count them easier?

found a news story

http://www.fox17online.com/news/ion...lic-meetings-planned-20120919,0,5094552.story

http://www.fox47news.com/news/topstories/170162586.html


----------



## anonymous7242016

Just got off the phone with one of the neighbors that lives by the property. I asked him what he has heard. He says nothing really, not too many people talking about it.
He said a friend of his talked to one of the CO's the other day and was told there was like 15 reports out of Montcalm.........I told him today's map say 172. 
He said another friend that lives in near Hubbardston, said you can't even drive the back roads with your windows down the smell is so bad.


----------



## anonymous7242016

Chuck said:


> Maybe we should all get together with a big truck and start dumping these dead deer at the DNR head quarters. Then maybe they can count them easier?


AsI don't blame the DNR for this, I do think down playing it is the worst thing they can do. 
I can't say I am even directly effected yet. I haven't found any, nor has it been the topic of discussion in the area. Hell the Montcalm Quality Deer Management facebook page seems more concerned on how many "likes" they have than this. I seem to be the only one bringing up the subject.
But as for dumping the carcasses...............starting to sound like a good way to really open up their eyes to how serious and concerned those of us who are or possibly will have to deal with it truely are.


----------



## NovemberWhitetailz

bucksnbows said:


> AsI don't blame the DNR for this, I do think down playing it is the worst thing they can do.
> I can't say I am even directly effected yet. I haven't found any, nor has it been the topic of discussion in the area. Hell the Montcalm Quality Deer Management facebook page seems more concerned on how many "likes" they have than this. I seem to be the only one bringing up the subject.
> But as for dumping the carcasses...............starting to sound like a good way to really open up their eyes to how serious and concerned those of us who are or possibly will have to deal with it truely are.


Any other time of day or season they are the States/dnr's deer. Die from EHD on my property and it's now my deer. I feel so lucky


----------



## johnhunter

Nocturnal Ghost said:


> The latest map is at 71% of the counties have atleast a reported case and that number is going to go up as the crops come down. I saw a cut bean field today that had these "piles" in it upon closer look it was dead deer. Damn, Dan I don't want to win this bet but we need to get the word out. Its ugly out there.


Big difference between an appearance in 71% of the counties and what you asserted in that other post.



Nocturnal Ghost said:


> The biologist were right when they told my concerned friend a week ago "don't worry the deer are in the corn". My bet says 2/3rd of SLP is infected to some extent.


To me, that means 2/3 of the land mass. Not 2/3 of the townships. Just because you've got one incidence in 36 square miles does not mean the entire township is infected.


----------



## Nocturnal Ghost

farmlegend said:


> Big difference between an appearance in 71 of the conties and what yo asserted in that other post.
> 
> 
> 
> To me, that means 2/3 of the land mass. Not 2/3 of the townships. Just because you've got one incidence in 36 square miles does not mean the entire township is infected.


 I say townships, are you proposing tree stands????


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## Liver and Onions

Nocturnal Ghost said:


> I say townships, are you proposing tree stands????


Do you mean 2/3 of the townships shown on the map that shows the EHD cases or do you mean 2/3 of the townships of Zone 3, the SLP ?
The map does not include the Thumb area, but does include roughly an equal amount of land in Zone 2.

L & O


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## Chuck

Do you guys have to try to derail every thread with semantics?

Good god no matter how you look at this this is a deer crises

If it dosent affect you be thankful

If it does then you better be scouting out new ground to hunt for a few years and hope the next few years this doesnt get worse at it appears to be doing.


----------



## Chuck

Has anyone done a unofficial count just on what has been reported on this thread?


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## anonymous7242016

I got a few questions I sure wish someone could answer.

1. Does colder weather (not frost) slow the disease down.....the midges are less active?
2. How much cold weather (frost conditions) in order to stop the spread?
3. Can you contact the DNR for some more specific locations of the reports? (cross roads for example)
4. Again........what % of the reports reflect in the total kill?


----------



## legard29

The thing with that is if they say u have one confirmed kill, it really means hundreds that they won't talk about, heaven forbid the state quit selling doe tags to keep the herd, its no wonder every other state that borders is has better and more quality deer hunting, mdnr sucks, this is just like the couger thing, u show them a track and they wipe it out and say its a coyote, this is just a cover up so they can still sell licenses, we will never actually know anywhere near the real number, the more dead the happier they are, Michigan has no real plan for its deer herd, as long as they sell licenses and insurance companys keep the money flowing, that's all that matters

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## Big Jon St.Croix

Chuck said:


> So why do they have a chart posting total numbers and a map with reported and confirmed then they change that to a map with just confirmed then they take away the chart and put it all in one map??? Man can they make it more confusing.
> 
> I hate to say it but when the corn comes down it will get worse, at least it did in the areas before. At least the DNR is paying attention this time around.
> 
> Maybe we should all get together with a big truck and start dumping these dead deer at the DNR head quarters. Then maybe they can count them easier?
> 
> found a news story
> 
> http://www.fox17online.com/news/ion...lic-meetings-planned-20120919,0,5094552.story
> 
> http://www.fox47news.com/news/topstories/170162586.html


 
http://www.michigan.gov/images/emergingdiseases/EHD_2012_Reports_map_394528_7.jpg


----------



## anonymous7242016

legard29 said:


> The thing with that is if they say u have one confirmed kill, it really means hundreds that they won't talk about, heaven forbid the state quit selling doe tags to keep the herd, its no wonder every other state that borders is has better and more quality deer hunting, mdnr sucks, this is just like the couger thing, u show them a track and they wipe it out and say its a coyote, this is just a cover up so they can still sell licenses, we will never actually know anywhere near the real number, the more dead the happier they are, Michigan has no real plan for its deer herd, as long as they sell licenses and insurance companys keep the money flowing, that's all that matters
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


 
I still don't quite get the $$$$ issue that keeps popping up, but I do feel we will never be given a real answer to the estimated damage. Maybe the meeting tonight will shed some light on the subject.

Then there is the comparison of Michigan to other states that seemingly do a better job of managing their deer herd.
Well guess what..............
Currently these states are all having EHD outbreaks and according to many the worst they have seen too.

Iowa
Illinois
Missouri
Nebraska
Ohio
Kansas
Indiana
South Dakota
Wisconsin

Those states have always been held high in reguards to their management...........is their DNR doing anything proactive?


----------



## Skinner 2

Chuck said:


> Has anyone done a unofficial count just on what has been reported on this thread?


 
Good idea I will start a new thread.
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=436328

Skinner


----------



## Grizzly Adams

You guys arguing about maps ***. I would not waste a second looking at a dnr map. Pure BS. 

The reports on here tell the real deal. This is real bad! West Mich had some EHD last yr as well & deer numbers were down cuz of it. Now this super strain slammed the S half of the state this yr. 

Most people dont even know this is happening btw. I talked to a few guys last week that are pretty big hunters, & they knew nothing of it until I told them. 

With our gun seasons going over a month long now & only a few deer left - we are screwed. Sad but true


----------



## GettinBucky

Budy of mine took his boat down the Tittabawassee river from center rd tonight....wanted to see for himself. He found many dead...said it made him sick to his stomach...I talked to someone at the Shiawasse field office this morning. He was very upset about the situation...said its very bad in there!

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----------



## Waz_51

did he go down towards wickes or up towards freeland?


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## boomer_x7

You guys get any of that weather last night? We had sleet in the NLP.


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## Waz_51

wow..we had a slight frost but im not sure how it effective it was for suppressing the outbreak...only time will tell! im gunna go check some spots in the state game area here in saginaw within the next few days...im hoping i dont find much...


----------



## johnhunter

Nocturnal Ghost said:


> I say townships, are you proposing tree stands????


My point, which you are sliding away from: you said nothing about "townships" in post 599. I maintain my willingness to take your bet. Your remark suggested that 2/3 of the land mass of the SLP wold be infected. Here's your words:


Nocturnal Ghost said:


> The biologist were right when they told my concerned friend a week ago "don't worry the deer are in the corn". My bet says 2/3rd of SLP is infected to some extent.





Chuck said:


> Do you guys have to try to derail every thread with semantics?


No matter how awful the EHD story is, the fact remains that words mean things.


----------



## rangefinder

Was down at my nephews place in ST Joe co. his first yrs bow hunting and we found a small 6 pointer an a good size doe. mile off m-40 on Shavehead lk Rd. Been dead just 2-3 days....common cold AIR!!!


----------



## legard29

I would like to see the dnr put a holt on left over and any doe tags still avalible in the infected counties until the real kill numbers have been assessed, if 50% of the deer are wiped out and we as hunters kill another 15%, it will take a hell of a long time to recover if they ever do, they need to be proactive on this to try and save the ones that do survive, if they do nothing deer in the southern part of the state are going to be scarce, and nobody who hunts wants that, I wish they would actually get a count, I mean really if there are 30 dead around a pond, and they are there to long for a test, how can they just dismiss them as not being counted, this is much worse than they are willing to let on, I'm with the truck idea, I think we should just start dumping them at the headquarters, maybe they will get the hint



Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## Nocturnal Ghost

farmlegend said:


> My point, which you are sliding away from: you said nothing about "townships" in post 599. I maintain my willingness to take your bet. Your remark suggested that 2/3 of the land mass of the SLP wold be infected. Here's your words:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No matter how awful the EHD story is, the fact remains that words mean things.


 I reread my post and I meant "affected" Darn spell checker?


----------



## Ken

Maybe the farmers and insurance companies were not pacified by the hunter's efforts in reducing the herd, so something drastic had to be done, before schmitt hit the fan. 

No, I don't believe this conspiracy, but some may. 

It's just funny how the source animals, if known, are never mentioned, only the fly. Sorry, but flies don't live over the winter to keep spreading it. There are animals other than deer that are harboring the disease until the next year when the flies again return to pick it up from them. 

It's also strange that mosquitos or other biting insects can't spread it, like they do West Nile.


----------



## hunterjoeMI

From the meeting last night in Ionia- DNR

1. Seasons are set and no reductions in doe permits or seasons will be made this year. 

2. Hunters must make there own call and decide to pull the trigger or not pull the trigger dependent on there own observations of deer populations. 

So, it is our responsibility to manage the deer on the lands we own, lease, have permission to hunt, and even state land. Really nothing new for responsible hunters and land managers. 

Just remember when you shoot a female deer this fall you are (in most cases) really removing 3 deer from the population for next year. 

Get the word out to other hunters to educate them on the situation. We all need to make wise decisions! With the hunting seasons and number of hunters we have we could really make this a longer term recovery than it is already going to be.


----------



## anonymous7242016

hunterjoeMI said:


> From the meeting last night in Ionia- DNR
> 
> 1. Seasons are set and no reductions in doe permits or seasons will be made this year.
> 
> 2. Hunters must make there own call and decide to pull the trigger or not pull the trigger dependent on there own observations of deer populations.
> 
> So, it is our responsibility to manage the deer on the lands we own, lease, have permission to hunt, and even state land. Really nothing new for responsible hunters and land managers.
> 
> Just remember when you shoot a female deer this fall you are (in most cases) really removing 3 deer from the population for next year.
> 
> Get the word out to other hunters to educate them on the situation. We all need to make wise decisions! With the hunting seasons and number of hunters we have we could really make this a longer term recovery than it is already going to be.


They have any thing else to say?
Like maybe an estimate on total kill.

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----------



## Walker Rd

hunterjoeMI said:


> From the meeting last night in Ionia- DNR
> 
> 1. Seasons are set and no reductions in doe permits or seasons will be made this year.
> 
> 2. Hunters must make there own call and decide to pull the trigger or not pull the trigger dependent on there own observations of deer populations.
> 
> So, it is our responsibility to manage the deer on the lands we own, lease, have permission to hunt, and even state land. Really nothing new for responsible hunters and land managers.
> 
> Just remember when you shoot a female deer this fall you are (in most cases) really removing 3 deer from the population for next year.
> 
> Get the word out to other hunters to educate them on the situation. We all need to make wise decisions! With the hunting seasons and number of hunters we have we could really make this a longer term recovery than it is already going to be.


Is that all they mentioned?

Did they mention anything about the following:
1. DNR will evaluate canceling early and late doe season next yr?
2. Changing DMU 486 into multiple sub DMU's next yr?
3. Limit the amount of tags in the sub DMU's for 486?


----------



## Hulk

Ken said:


> It's just funny how the source animals, if known, are never mentioned, only the fly. Sorry, but flies don't live over the winter to keep spreading it. There are animals other than deer that are harboring the disease until the next year when the flies again return to pick it up from them.


You're right about that.
Someone had said the DNR mentioned "EHD type 6 virus strain" which is directly linked to cattle. If it is EHD serotype 6 virus, it very well could have been imported through cattle. I just wonder?


----------



## Outdoorsman17

My guess is the cattle have an immunity built up to the disease but the deer don't. So this is not unlike bovine TB, just a different way it can be spread.


----------



## FISHMANMARK

Walker Rd said:


> Is that all they mentioned?
> 
> Did they mention anything about the following:
> 1. DNR will evaluate canceling early and late doe season next yr?
> 2. Changing DMU 486 into multiple sub DMU's next yr?
> 3. Limit the amount of tags in the sub DMU's for 486?


 
Yes
Yes
Yes

No, they didn't want to guess on a total. They did repeatedly stress that the kill is much larger than the reported numbers.

Ionia county for example, average deer kill is 10,000 animals. Currently just under 2,000 reported dead. Realistically, we are looking at 2/3rds of the annual deer kill (by hunters) is done before the season starts.

Trigger management, trigger management, trigger management

They said it will take about 10 months to gather all of the data and make a guess on the actual deer kill.

It was a good meeting, I'm *slightly* more comfortable with how the DNR is handling this issue. I really wish they would limit antlerless tags in the heavily effected areas versus just stressing trigger management if you are not seeing deer.


----------



## johnhunter

Nocturnal Ghost said:


> I reread my post and I meant "affected" Darn spell checker?


Got it. If that's the case, I wouldn't bet quite so much.

In any case, it's my fervent hope that the carnage stops, now.


----------



## Hulk

Outdoorsman17 said:


> My guess is the cattle have an immunity built up to the disease but the deer don't. So this is not unlike bovine TB, just a different way it can be spread.


Cattle have been known to have EHD, just google "EHD in cattle" it's just not nearly as fatal in cattle as it is in deer.

I'm having a hard time believing it's because of just drought conditions, mild winter or a hotter summer. After all these years of not getting hammered by EHD something, some how brought it here, my guess is imported cattle. I do believe the dry hot summer helped it spread as it has.


----------



## Luv2hunteup

Here is a link to the numbers matrix shown on the map.
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=436373


----------



## CHASINEYES

Hulk said:


> Cattle have been known to have EHD, just google "EHD in cattle" it's just not nearly as fatal in cattle as it is in deer.
> 
> I'm having a hard time believing it's because of just drought conditions, mild winter or a hotter summer. After all these years of not getting hammered by EHD something, some how brought it here, my guess is imported cattle. I do believe the dry hot summer helped it spread as it has.


More animals than cattle carry ehd. From the reading I've done, it seems elk, cattle, and sheep can be carriers. By the way things look to me, captive deer owners are beating EHD by medicating the snot out of them. According to the univeristy of kentucky, animals that survive become carriers. Imo, having captive animals around that survive can't be good for our wild herd. I,ll post 2 links for reading. Note the locations of these deer farmers.
http://www.kentuckyawake.org/Epizootic_Hemorrhagic_Disease (EHD) 

http://www.deerforums.com/vbforums/showthread.php?t=7098



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----------



## atr2425

i spoke with a gentleman a week ago that is raising penned in deer in my area around athens. they had 21. they have lost them all. I wish i would thought to ask if maybe they did not treat them for this exact reason. never thought about they could be a carrier of it. good point chasineyes.


----------



## huntingfool43

CHASINEYES

Your first link don't work. Keep getting page not found.


----------



## Oger

Question? Sorry if its been addressed but dont have time to go through 73 pages but does anyone know if these cold nights will put and end to the bug and the carnage or can it continue through the fall?

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----------



## CHASINEYES

huntingfool43 said:


> CHASINEYES
> 
> Your first link don't work. Keep getting page not found.


Try it now.

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----------



## Chuck

Oger the midges are killed with a frost that will put a end to it. I guess it depends though on how hard of frost it needs


----------



## Chuck

CHASINEYES thanks for fixing the link, I hadent read this before, "If an ungulate survives EHD, it develops a resistance to the disease but remains a carrier of the virus."

I know there is nothing that can be done but I wonder how effective spraying around ponds and other water sources on your property would be at keeping the midges down. If you did what would you spray to kill the midges?

I also wonder if the DNR knew this could happen after the last few years of outbreaks. Not that could have done any thing about it.

It sounds like its here to stay and will take many years before our northern deer have any chance at developing resistance to it and even then it dosent sound like they are out of the water. This could potentially spread all the way to the bridge over years.


----------



## tdduckman

SO after 49 pages of posts the facts still remain 

1) EHD has been present in Michigan since 1955 
2) There have been outbreaks every year for a few years
3) it can impact a local deer population quite severely 
4) it has had a small impact on the overall herd so far.
5) There is nothing that can be done to prevent it

In the relative scope of things that cause Deer mortality it appears that EHD is not going to be on the top of the list. 

If we could find a way to prevent Car deer kills we could save over 60,000 deer a year!!! (this is easier to fix then EHD)

Maybe we should all stop driving

TD


----------



## hartman756

Hulk said:


> Cattle have been known to have EHD, just google "EHD in cattle" it's just not nearly as fatal in cattle as it is in deer.
> 
> I'm having a hard time believing it's because of just drought conditions, mild winter or a hotter summer. After all these years of not getting hammered by EHD something, some how brought it here, my guess is imported cattle. I do believe the dry hot summer helped it spread as it has.


 
News Update Sept. 7, 2012 EHD Cases Confirmed in Nebraska Cattle According to state veterinarian Dennis Hughes, the Nebraska Department of Agriculture has confirmed nine cases of Epizootic Hemorrhagic Disease (EHD) in cattle throughout Nebraska.

According to Hughes, the disease has been affecting Nebraskas deer population since the 1970s and is transmitted from deer to cattle by biting insects called midges.

This is an unfortunate disease that has no preventative measures or treatment options for affected cattle, said Hughes. The extreme hot and dry conditions that have persisted across Nebraska have contributed to the number of cases we are experiencing. The first frost should eliminate the disease-spreading midges.

EHD symptoms in cattle include fever, anorexia, reduced milk production, swollen eyes, redness and scaling of the nose and lips, nasal and eye discharge, ulcers on mouth, excessive salivation, lameness, swelling of the tongue, oral/nasal blisters, and labored breathing.

Producers with animals experiencing these symptoms are urged to contact their veterinarian immediately.

Because these cases arent confined to a particular area, we have been receiving many questions from both producers and veterinarians across the state, Hughes said. Therefore, we felt it necessary to share this basic disease information and urge producers to contact their local veterinarians if their animals are experiencing these symptoms.

[/COLOR] 

c hartman


----------



## Rasputin

Chuck said:


> CHASINEYES thanks for fixing the link, I hadent read this before, "If an ungulate survives EHD, it develops a resistance to the disease but remains a carrier of the virus."
> 
> I know there is nothing that can be done but I wonder how effective spraying around ponds and other water sources on your property would be at keeping the midges down. If you did what would you spray to kill the midges?
> 
> I also wonder if the DNR knew this could happen after the last few years of outbreaks. Not that could have done any thing about it.
> 
> It sounds like its here to stay and will take many years before our northern deer have any chance at developing resistance to it and even then it dosent sound like they are out of the water. This could potentially spread all the way to the bridge over years.


 
Hmmm. If it is a virus, can't a vaccine be made? If it could be administered orally, maybe this could be minimized?


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## hunterrep

tdduckman said:


> SO after 49 pages of posts the facts still remain
> 
> 1) EHD has been present in Michigan since 1955
> 2) There have been outbreaks every year for a few years
> 3) it can impact a local deer population quite severely
> 4) it has had a small impact on the overall herd so far.
> 5) There is nothing that can be done to prevent it
> 
> In the relative scope of things that cause Deer mortality it appears that EHD is not going to be on the top of the list.
> 
> If we could find a way to prevent Car deer kills we could save over 60,000 deer a year!!! (this is easier to fix then EHD)
> 
> Maybe we should all stop driving
> 
> TD


Spoken by somebody who obviously hasn't had their deer hunting world come tumbling down. Thanks for your compassion Duckhead, not.


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## tdduckman

hunterrep said:


> Spoken by somebody who obviously hasn't had their deer hunting world come tumbling down. Thanks for your compassion Duckhead, not.


 
I am compassionate on this. Locally this could suck bad.

However all of the calls for the DNR to step in and take action are misguided based on the overall impact. When this begins to approach the type of overall impact to our herd that Car-Deer interactions cause we could start talking about doing something.



TD


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## anonymous7242016

A Co worker of mine hunts Livingston county and experienced a pretty bad kill from ehd in 2010.
He said numbers were definitely low but he still saw deer and still had some decent hunting
Now he said Oakland county had it the year before. Take note that both those counties are not on the map as having any reports this year. Maybe the same strain had hit them a few years ago and they built up an immunity.
I know some places on the west side are receiving back to back outbreaks. Maybe a different strain from last season.

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----------



## Esta la verdad

tdduckman said:


> I am compassionate on this. Locally this could suck bad.
> 
> However all of the calls for the DNR to step in and take action are misguided based on the overall impact. When this begins to approach the type of overall impact to our herd that Car-Deer interactions cause we could start talking about doing something.
> 
> 
> 
> TD


You are misinformed on this. That number of 4,217 is NOT accurate, not even close. The numbers are in the 40,000-60,000 range, no question. This number is increasing by the day and keep in mind that not many crops have been harvested yet......I've heard deer like corn. Please get a clue, Sir.


----------



## FISHMANMARK

tdduckman said:


> However all of the calls for the DNR to step in and take action are misguided based on the overall impact.
> 
> 
> TD


 
I don't think anyone is calling for action on a large scale.

The decisions need to be made on a township by township basis.

There could be 90% die off in one area and no loss one township over.


The DNR is 'hands off' for this year, it is up to the folks hunting to decide if they are seeing a reduction in deer, if they are, it's time to hold off shooting.


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## GettinBucky

tdduckman said:


> I am compassionate on this. Locally this could suck bad.
> 
> However all of the calls for the DNR to step in and take action are misguided based on the overall impact. When this begins to approach the type of overall impact to our herd that Car-Deer interactions cause we could start talking about doing something.
> 
> 
> 
> TD


I think you are severly underestimating the amount of deer that are dead from this.....the DNR them selves have said the death toll in Ionia county alone is likely 10,000 +. State wide the numbers of actual dead is staggering!!!


----------



## HTC

tdduckman said:


> SO after 49 pages of posts the facts still remain
> 
> 1) EHD has been present in Michigan since 1955
> 2) There have been outbreaks every year for a few years
> 3) it can impact a local deer population quite severely
> 4) it has had a small impact on the overall herd so far.
> 5) There is nothing that can be done to prevent it
> 
> In the relative scope of things that cause Deer mortality it appears that EHD is not going to be on the top of the list.
> 
> If we could find a way to prevent Car deer kills we could save over 60,000 deer a year!!! (this is easier to fix then EHD)
> 
> Maybe we should all stop driving
> 
> TD


Yes, there has been EHD since 1955 and small isolated outbreaks every few years....I don't believe we have experienced one of this scale...Nothing can be done to prevent it, true. However the impact of this particular outbreak on the herd in the affected areas is what we are talking about. Specifically what, if anything, could be done from a management perspective by both the DNR and the individual hunter to lessen that blow.

Your recommendation on how to prevent car/deer kills was helpful, thanks!


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## Luv2hunteup

With the numbers everyone is estimating it sounds like the kill may be close to what the wolves kill in the UP every year. So should we assume the DNR reports on wolf kill needs to be adjusted up by a factor of 10? No!

The DNR only reports the minimum number of wolves just like they will probably only report minimum EHD death numbers. It's up to the guys in the field to report every EHD suspected death to the DNR. If you want accurate numbers report what you find if not you will leave everyone wondering what the real numbers are. Management policies are based on hard facts mixed in with a little estimation not the other way around.


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## Waz_51

i spoke with a guy who lives in south dakota on facebook and he said that they have EHD this year and the DNR is already taking tags back and reimbursing the hunters...dont know if its true but thats what he said!


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## HUBBHUNTER

Waz_51 said:


> i spoke with a guy who lives in south dakota on facebook and he said that they have EHD this year and the DNR is already taking tags back and reimbursing the hunters...dont know if its true but thats what he said!


Yeah I started a thread with a link regarding the exact issue you're talking about and it was deleted. :16suspect









edit: I did use some unapproved language, but the whole thread didn't need to disappear.


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## Waz_51

i know a bunch of you guys dont agree with what theyre doing to manage this situation but i plead the fifth...ive been taking classes at SVSU in hopes of becoming an officer one day...i know if i get in there, ill do my best to help the hunters and fisherman in my selected area


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## Bomba

GettinBucky said:


> I think you are severly underestimating the amount of deer that are dead from this.....the DNR them selves have said the death toll in Ionia county alone is likely 10,000 +. State wide the numbers of actual dead is staggering!!!


Did you see this 10,000 in writing somewhere? Just curious where that
number came from.


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## GettinBucky

Bomba said:


> Did you see this 10,000 in writing somewhere? Just curious where that
> number came from.


That number was stated at the meeting in Ionia and posted on this site by someone that attended the meeting.

Saginaw shows 1 confirmed....in reality the entire Shiawassee state and federal refuge area has deer reported dead. There thousands dead in that area.....


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## tdduckman

Esta la verdad said:


> You are misinformed on this. That number of 4,217 is NOT accurate, not even close. The numbers are in the 40,000-60,000 range, no question. This number is increasing by the day and keep in mind that not many crops have been harvested yet......I've heard deer like corn. Please get a clue, Sir.


 
I question your basis for this claim 

TD


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## tdduckman

GettinBucky said:


> I think you are severly underestimating the amount of deer that are dead from this.....the DNR them selves have said the death toll in Ionia county alone is likely 10,000 +. State wide the numbers of actual dead is staggering!!!


 
Last year the hunter deer kill in Ionia was 9800 +/- 1000 


SO you are saying EHD killed more then 90+ days of hunting


I think this is incorrect, but lets see how many are killed in Ionia in 2012


TD


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## Esta la verdad

tdduckman said:


> I question your basis for this claim
> 
> TD


The answer my friend, is blowin' in the wind. In all seriousness, it's accurate, I can't get into why, and you can question it all you want, but when it's all said and done, the high number of that range may be conservative. I base my estimate on actual experience and conversation with those affected, you're simply relying on an inaccurate and misleading map IMO.


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## CHASINEYES

EHD has been hunting for 90+ days, without discrimination.

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## huntingfool43

Thanks CHASINEYES. Interesting reading.


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## Waz_51

Esta la verdad said:


> The answer my friend, is blowin' in the wind. In all seriousness, it's accurate, I can't get into why, and you can question it all you want, but when it's all said and done, the high number of that range may be conservative. I base my estimate on actual experience and conversation with those affected, you're simply relying on an inaccurate and misleading map IMO.


the crazy part is that we wont actually know how bad it is...there is going to be countless numbers of deer that arent reported or even found


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## Waz_51

CHASINEYES said:


> EHD has been hunting for 90+ days, without discrimination.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


thats a GREAT way to put it!


----------



## GettinBucky

tdduckman said:


> Last year the hunter deer kill in Ionia was 9800 +/- 1000
> 
> 
> SO you are saying EHD killed more then 90+ days of hunting
> 
> 
> I think this is incorrect, but lets see how many are killed in Ionia in 2012
> 
> 
> TD


Yes...the information is correct....Keep your head down in the sand!!!!


----------



## Esta la verdad

tdduckman said:


> Last year the hunter deer kill in Ionia was 9800 +/- 1000
> 
> 
> SO you are saying EHD killed more then 90+ days of hunting
> 
> 
> I think this is incorrect, but lets see how many are killed in Ionia in 2012
> 
> 
> TD


EHD isn't limited by tags, QDM standards on certain properties, etc, etc. It is the most efficient and ruthless killer the Whitetail Herd has ever seen. EHD doesn't miss, wound or get spotted/scented, it simply kills and moves onto the next. Let me ask you, are you located in or near a heavily impacted area? Have you witnessed this carnage first hand? Have you spoke with anyone in Ionia county? None of us wanted to believe it either, but it's reality, Sir.


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## Esta la verdad

Waz_51 said:


> the crazy part is that we wont actually know how bad it is...there is going to be countless numbers of deer that arent reported or even found


Yes, Waz, it's most definitely going to go above and beyond whatever number comes out. Think of all the fawns that were decomposed in a few days and who's skeletal remains will be scattered about like they never existed???


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## tdduckman

Esta la verdad said:


> The answer my friend, is blowin' in the wind. In all seriousness, it's accurate, I can't get into why, and you can question it all you want, but when it's all said and done, the high number of that range may be conservative. I base my estimate on actual experience and conversation with those affected, you're simply relying on an inaccurate and misleading map IMO.


 
So I should trust you instead of the DNR because you said so 


Got it

TD


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## Hulk

tdduckman said:


> So I should trust you instead of the DNR because you said so
> 
> 
> Got it
> 
> TD


Hear what the DNR has to say for yourself.
http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ionia_county/DNR-Deer-hunting-OK-despite-virus


----------



## Esta la verdad

tdduckman said:


> So I should trust you instead of the DNR because you said so
> 
> 
> Got it
> 
> TD


You should get ALL the information/data available in front of you and then make an informed decision based on that. I would advise against trusting strangers. That being said, do you know and trust people within the DNR? You want to argue and I get that, nobody likes to be wrong and/or admit it. Everyone else is telling you the same thing I am, are you doubting those claims as well? :16suspect


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## tdduckman

Hulk said:


> Hear what the DNR has to say for yourself.
> http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ionia_county/DNR-Deer-hunting-OK-despite-virus


 
So lets break it down 

Ionia is the Hardest hit 

Out of a population of 40,000 deer 2,000 are know dead

There are more dying 

A frost will stop the problem


If the number of dead is 10 x the known this would still leave Ionia county with 20,000 deer which if the deer kill was the same as last year would be 10,000.

8,000 of which would be does having 1.5 fawns so the next fall numbers would be 22,000


How is my math????



TD


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## Chuck

Hey duckman maybe some one whos property has been hit hard by EHD will let you come hunt, maybe you could do a trade

From what I have read 40,000 deer in Ionia county is way high of a deer count


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## Hulk

Your math skills are fine, just nobody (not even the DNR) knows what numbers to begin crunching.
Bottom line is,
"we know there are a lot more dead than reported"


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## tdduckman

Chuck said:


> Hey duckman maybe some one whos property has been hit hard by EHD will let you come hunt, maybe you could do a trade
> 
> From what I have read 40,000 deer in Ionia county is way high of a deer count


 
See here is the problem 

I am told to listen to the news and draw a conclusion, I do as asked but now I can only use the "bad" numbers but not the good ones.


The news article said that there are 2000 dead in Ionia I multiply that by 10 and your ok with that, you have a problem with the 40,000



Your right the sky has fallen all of the deer are dead and I will have more time for duck hunting 


Thanks


TD


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## cakebaker

Folks, Please respond to this thread after the 2012 deer season because we have lost a lot of deer. Many tags that have sold will be unfilled simply because people want to believe that deer will just showup from other areas. The problem is that these other areas have been ehd'd also. Take it for what its worth but i will be checking this thread during deer season.


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## atr2425

personally, i'm going to trust people on this web-site more than the DNR. The ones that are actually out there finding them all. the DNR can claim they dont know what many of these deer have died from because they are more than a couple days old. we all know it is mainly from EHD. There are to many to count and to many places people wont look to find them. we will never know the "real" count. it is impossible.


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## Chuck

duckman all I can say is start from the beginning of this thread

good luck to you thix season


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## me223656

Can someone post the new numbers please

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## Waz_51

here ya go...

http://www.michigan.gov/images/emergingdiseases/EHD_2012_Reports_map_394528_7.jpg


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## tdduckman

me223656 said:


> Can someone post the new numbers please
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
> 
> Here is the link to the latest data
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/emergingdiseases/0,4579,7-186--283966--,00.html
> 
> 
> 
> Now that said according to some you have to make a bad situation worse by multiplying this times whatever number comes into your head.
> 
> 
> TD


----------



## lodge lounger

Am I concerned? Sure. My Barry County hunting property is undoubtedly impacted. The deer population may never, in my lifetime, come back to what I've had the good fortune to experience the past few decades. Guess that means the hunting will be a lot like it was when I started chasing deer in the SLP in 1964. If we got one deer in a season among four hunters, we were elated. The hunting was still great, it was only the harvest that was kinda weak. 

Regardless of what I find out there, I'll still be passionate about deer hunting, I'll still do my best to be a good steward of the resources, and if everything aligns and we harvest a deer or two, I'll be elated. The rest is just noise for me. It's fall. Let's go huntin' baby.


----------



## GettinBucky

tdduckman said:


> me223656 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can someone post the new numbers please
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
> 
> Here is the link to the latest data
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/emergingdiseases/0,4579,7-186--283966--,00.html
> 
> 
> 
> Now that said according to some you have to make a bad situation worse by multiplying this times whatever number comes into your head.
> 
> 
> TD
> 
> 
> 
> Please get out from behind your desk and take a long walk in the deer woods of one of the affected areas. Then come back and post... If your too lazy then just pick up the phone and dial any of the DNR filed offices in the affected area. Call the Field office in Saint Charles.....they will tell you what the 1 on the map for Saginaw county really means...please don't take anyones word for it....get off your -ss and look for yourself!!!!
Click to expand...


----------



## NovemberWhitetailz

tdduckman said:


> me223656 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can someone post the new numbers please
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
> 
> Here is the link to the latest data
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/emergingdiseases/0,4579,7-186--283966--,00.html
> 
> 
> 
> Now that said according to some you have to make a bad situation worse by multiplying this times whatever number comes into your head.
> 
> 
> TD
> 
> 
> 
> Those are last weeks #'s This weeks haven't been posted. Why can't they use a multiplyer, other states DNR use them?
Click to expand...


----------



## lreigler

FYI to all, accuweather is showing a low of 36 for Sunday, Grand Rapids. Lets all hope.


----------



## tdduckman

GettinBucky said:


> tdduckman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please get out from behind your desk and take a long walk in the deer woods of one of the affected areas. Then come back and post... If your too lazy then just pick up the phone and dial any of the DNR filed offices in the affected area. Call the Field office in Saint Charles.....they will tell you what the 1 on the map for Saginaw county really means...please don't take anyones word for it....get off your -ss and look for yourself!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look I know there has been a deer kill and I can read the reports, the whole point is that individual observations should not be blown out of proportion.
> 
> In another thread 1 poster says the River is full of dead deer when another poster is talking about all of the live deer he is seeing in the same area.
> 
> This is my point, there has been a EHD out break, thats bad, but we will not know how bad until the weather cools and it stops. So we should wait and see what is the story when all has settled.
> 
> Sounding alarm bells and claiming that the deer will not recover does not benifit anyone.
> 
> waiting and seeing how many deer are left and making adjustments if needed is the way to go.
> 
> Personally I am going to take someone youth hunting this weekend I will see what I see.
> 
> 
> TD
Click to expand...


----------



## HUBBHUNTER

Yes, TDduckman has is right. Everyone should keep their observations to them selves and not inform anyone on the extremely high numbers of dead deer they are finding. Let all the happy hunters go out to the woods totally oblivious to the fact that in many many areas the herd has been near wiped out. Let Joe hunter go out with happy enthusiasm and shoot all the deer his tags allow. Let's all take our happy pills and take a wait and see attitude. That should work. You wont offend anyone and take away from their hunting experience. Let Joe hunter find out for himself that there aren't many deer left so he better shoot the few that he does see. Let's set ourselves back even further by killing what's left in the affected areas. Yeah, that will work.


----------



## Bomba

tdduckman said:


> GettinBucky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look I know there has been a deer kill and I can read the reports, the whole point is that individual observations should not be blown out of proportion.
> 
> In another thread 1 poster says the River is full of dead deer when another poster is talking about all of the live deer he is seeing in the same area.
> 
> This is my point, there has been a EHD out break, thats bad, but we will not know how bad until the weather cools and it stops. So we should wait and see what is the story when all has settled.
> 
> Sounding alarm bells and claiming that the deer will not recover does not benifit anyone.
> 
> waiting and seeing how many deer are left and making adjustments if needed is the way to go.
> 
> Personally I am going to take someone youth hunting this weekend I will see what I see.
> 
> 
> TD
> 
> 
> 
> Well said.
Click to expand...


----------



## GettinBucky

lreigler said:


> FYI to all, accuweather is showing a low of 36 for Sunday, Grand Rapids. Lets all hope.


And 37 in Saginaw.....I know the farmers don't want it yet but this EHD monster has this not very religius guy praying for a hard forst!!!!


----------



## omega58

tdduckman said:


> Look I know there has been a deer kill and I can read the reports, the whole point is that individual observations should not be blown out of proportion.
> 
> In another thread 1 poster says the River is full of dead deer when another poster is talking about all of the live deer he is seeing in the same area.
> 
> This is my point, there has been a EHD out break, thats bad, but we will not know how bad until the weather cools and it stops. So we should wait and see what is the story when all has settled.
> 
> Sounding alarm bells and claiming that the deer will not recover does not benifit anyone.
> 
> waiting and seeing how many deer are left and making adjustments if needed is the way to go.
> 
> Personally I am going to take someone youth hunting this weekend I will see what I see.
> 
> 
> TD


You staying in the south? Or heading up north to your property? It is getting close up there as well, hopefully not there yet. .. .need a frost!!

Good luck and have fun.


----------



## johnhunter

In most of the SLP, it's somewhere between 10/05 and 10/07. The earliest I've seen in Hillsdale County is 10/01(I believe that was in 2010), though I've been told by an old timer that it's happened on 09/30 before. 

Back in 2000, we didn't get our first hard frost until the last week of October.


----------



## NovemberWhitetailz

Can anyone locate a county by county total or are they just going to post the State wide total from here on out?

We had a frost on Wednesday in Carson City. They are calling for lows of 34 and 32 respectively for Carson City again this weekend :help:


----------



## tdduckman

omega58 said:


> You staying in the south? Or heading up north to your property? It is getting close up there as well, hopefully not there yet. .. .need a frost!!
> 
> Good luck and have fun.


Heading north --- There has been a confirmed case 2 townships away if I read the report correctly.

Like most outbreaks it has to run its course and then we can asses the damamge.

My neighbor saw 37 deer in his hay field last night so I know there are some around.

We did have a frost last weekend not sure if it was heavy enough.

TD


----------



## tdduckman

HUBBHUNTER2 said:


> Can anyone locate a county by county total or are they just going to post the State wide total from here on out?
> 
> We had a frost on Wednesday in Carson City. They are calling for lows of 34 and 32 respectively for Carson City again this weekend :help:


 
The county by county count is posted as a link in several posts. but here it is again there have been other reports including a updated map since then. This is current as of last week.

http://www.michigan.gov/emergingdiseases/0,4579,7-186--283966--,00.html


----------



## hartman756

lreigler said:


> FYI to all, accuweather is showing a low of 36 for Sunday, Grand Rapids. Lets all hope.


 Sat forcast for Pellston


Rain showers, possibly mixed with sleet.


c hartman


----------



## sniper22mag

Now that said according to some you have to make a bad situation worse by multiplying this times whatever number comes into your head.


TD[/QUOTEa

A sad fact is that these numbers do not do it any justice of what is really going on out there. Fact is situation is not bad its horrible. But as some have said we are just speculateing? LIke some have said get out there and take a walk to see how it really is. So if the dnr comes to look at a fresh ehd deer? The fresh one is laying next to a few hours old one. The older one don't count because its too old to test.? This is not speculation, that is how its actually working. So the numbers are greatly flawed.


----------



## Waz_51

its strange to think that they cant test a deer thats over the 48 hour limit...seems like that disease would stick with the carcass no matter how old it is...


----------



## Spike Country

Not sure if this is what some of you are trying to see?


----------



## Luv2hunteup

The virus begins to die within hours of death.


----------



## mikeznewaygo

HUBBHUNTER said:


> Yes, TDduckman has is right. Everyone should keep their observations to them selves and not inform anyone on the extremely high numbers of dead deer they are finding. Let all the happy hunters go out to the woods totally oblivious to the fact that in many many areas the herd has been near wiped out. Let Joe hunter go out with happy enthusiasm and shoot all the deer his tags allow. Let's all take our happy pills and take a wait and see attitude. That should work. You wont offend anyone and take away from their hunting experience. Let Joe hunter find out for himself that there aren't many deer left so he better shoot the few that he does see. Let's set ourselves back even further by killing what's left in the affected areas. Yeah, that will work.



I dont think that TDduckman said any of that? you know you actually have to read posts to be able to critique them. All TDduckman is saying is don't overly freak out until this outbreak is all said and done with, yes i know it sucks but there will be deer left, and hopefully we find out that there is more around then everyone thoight. All he was saying is when you go out and actually sit in the woods, make observations on how many you do see, not shoot every deer you see.

take a chill pill, there will always be deer


----------



## Waz_51

i posted earlier about talking to the guy who lives in South Dakota...this is where he directed me to...

http://gfp.sd.gov/news/news/september/19.aspx

thats pretty proactive if you ask me!


----------



## HUBBHUNTER

Waz_51 said:


> i posted earlier about talking to the guy who lives in South Dakota...this is where he directed me to...
> 
> http://gfp.sd.gov/news/news/september/19.aspx
> 
> *thats pretty proactive if you ask me*!


Sure is. To be honest I don't see how that would be possible in a unit as large as 486. Now, as was discussed that the EHD meeting in Ionia last night, unit 486 will be broken up into 4-6 sub units where what is being done could be possible. Would the MDNR do what is being done out in S. Dakota? Doubtful but it would be more plausible. Getting accurate information out to the uninformed is the best we can do now and that is our responsiblity as hunters because for many reasons the DNR is not capable.


----------



## tdduckman

Waz_51 said:


> i posted earlier about talking to the guy who lives in South Dakota...this is where he directed me to...
> 
> http://gfp.sd.gov/news/news/september/19.aspx
> 
> thats pretty proactive if you ask me!


 
Yes that is very proactive and a completely different situation. 

South Dakota is a great place to hunt but, it is a low deer denisty state with many fewer deer and deer hunters.

Their tags are almost all alocated by lottery already and are not sold over the counter. What they stopped selling was the left over licenses after the drawing.

So how would we do this in Michigan? tell all of the guys who havent bought their licenses that they are not going to be able to hunt this year?


----------



## tdduckman

HUBBHUNTER said:


> Sure is. To be honest I don't see how that would be possible in a unit as large as 486. Now, as was discussed that the EHD meeting in Ionia last night, unit 486 will be broken up into 4-6 sub units where what is being done could be possible. Would the MDNR do what is being done out in S. Dakota? Doubtful but it would be more plausible. Getting accurate information out to the uninformed is the best we can do now and that is our responsiblity as hunters because for many reasons the DNR is not capable.


 
Look most of the deer are taken in the Firearms season by that time the DNR will know the extent of the damage and can let people know what they should do. 

The best way to get the information to the uniformed is to get them the full and correct information. Which no one has at this point

TD


----------



## Waz_51

tdduckman said:


> Yes that is very proactive and a completely different situation.
> 
> South Dakota is a great place to hunt but, it is a low deer denisty state with many fewer deer and deer hunters.
> 
> Their tags are almost all alocated by lottery already and are not sold over the counter. What they stopped selling was the left over licenses after the drawing.
> 
> So how would we do this in Michigan? tell all of the guys who havent bought their licenses that they are not going to be able to hunt this year?


i dont have any recommendations for how the DNR should handle this...i was just showing that it is possible...however, offering to buy back licenses isnt a bad start!


----------



## tdduckman

Waz_51 said:


> i dont have any recommendations for how the DNR should handle this...i was just showing that it is possible...however, offering to buy back licenses isnt a bad start!


 
wouldnt it be better to direct the firearms hunters to areas that are still over population goals? Once the extent of the die off is known I am sure that the DNR will tell us the areas that were hit the worst and the Bow hunters will be able to give some field reports.

I tell you what I will buy your license if you want to sell it. (assuming that it is legal to do so)

I can frame it as a Deer Saved and hang it in my hunting blind

TD


----------



## Waz_51

tdduckman said:


> wouldnt it be better to direct the firearms hunters to areas that are still over population goals? Once the extent of the die off is known I am sure that the DNR will tell us the areas that were hit the worst and the Bow hunters will be able to give some field reports.
> 
> I tell you what I will buy your license if you want to sell it. (assuming that it is legal to do so)
> 
> I can frame it as a Deer Saved and hang it in my hunting blind
> 
> TD


not necessary...i can head north if i chose and as of today, it hasnt made its way onto my hunting land in saginaw...i havent even bought my license yet so no worries! :lol:

i dont know how many places that were going to have that are over goal once the dust settles...and what about the guys who have no other options but that one spot that was decimated? the buy backs dont seem like a bad idea then!


----------



## hartman756

Waz_51 said:


> i dont have any recommendations for how the DNR should handle this...i was just showing that it is possible...however, offering to buy back licenses isnt a bad start!


 


Buy back what licences?? The ones from the hunters that arnt sucessful? Alittle different here in Michigan........you walk into a licence outlet and buy one..........unless you bought a combo in the spring you already knew ,or should have as much as it has been publicized ,there was an outbreak of EHD...........


c hartman


----------



## Waz_51

hartman756 said:


> Buy back what licences?? The ones from the hunters that arnt sucessful? Alittle different here in Michigan........you walk into a licence outlet and buy one..........unless you bought a combo in the spring you already knew ,or should have as much as it has been publicized ,there was an outbreak of EHD...........
> 
> 
> c hartman


the season hasnt started yet, it would be quite simple for this to be a possibility


----------



## HUBBHUNTER

tdduckman said:


> *Look most of the deer are taken in the Firearms season by that time the DNR will know the extent of the damage and can let people know what they should do.*
> 
> The best way to get the information to the uniformed is to get them the full and correct information. Which no one has at this point
> 
> TD


The DNR stated last night at the Ionia meeting that they wont know the full extent for at least 10 months, so this season is still "game on!"

Next season it will be "hindsight is 20/20." Whoops!


----------



## WacoKid

Stateland up here in nlp is about to be a busy place had been quiet last few years have a feeling that's going to change.But hey that's what it's here for so if you end up in Roscommon and pass by my camp stop by and have a beer least I could do for what you guys are dealing with feel awful.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## Luv2hunteup

Waz I really don't think a buy back is the answer. Think about it Michigan sells about 700,000 more tags than South Dakota has people plus the season starts Saturday.

The DNR will never know how many deer have died but will have a better understanding once the deer harvest stats come in. That publication usually comes out to the public in the summer. Next year there will be a correction but not this year. The best that anyone can hope for is to get the word to the news media once there are facts not estimates by concerned deer hunters. Right now the only fact that the DNR has gone on record states that less than 5,000 deer died. Yes it sucks.


----------



## HUBBHUNTER

WacoKid said:


> Stateland up here in nlp is about to be a busy place had been quiet last few years have a feeling that's going to change.But hey that's what it's here for so if you end up in Roscommon and pass by my camp stop by and have a beer least I could do for what you guys are dealing with feel awful.
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Nice offer.

We had a cabin off Sharon rd on the Big Cannon in the 90's. Sure wish we still had that place, that's where I'd be.


----------



## Waz_51

Luv2hunteup said:


> Waz I really don't think a buy back is the answer. Think about it Michigan sells about 700,000 more tags than South Dakota has people plus the season starts Saturday.
> 
> The DNR will never know how many deer have died but will have a better understanding once the deer harvest stats come in. That publication usually comes out to the public in the summer. Next year there will be a correction but not this year. The best that anyone can hope for is to get the word to the news media once there are facts not estimates by concerned deer hunters. Right now the only fact that the DNR has gone on record states that less than 5,000 deer died. Yes it sucks.


just a thought...im sure theyll handle it effectively in the years to come but this year is gunna be crazy! youre definitely correct in suggesting that the best thing that we can do is get the word out to the ones who dont know!


----------



## hartman756

[quote="WacoKid, post: 4261278]Stateland up here in nlp is about to be a busy place had been quiet last few years have a feeling that's going to change.But hey that's what it's here for so if you end up in Roscommon and pass by my camp stop by and have a beer least I could do for what you guys are dealing with feel awful.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine[/quote]


Yep I agree on both points. A lot of public land up this way and for those that have the means to make it happen you should be able to find a spot to hunt!!


c hartman


----------



## Waz_51

as of right now, ill be taking a walk around the Shiawassee River State Game Area tomorrow...im going to concentrate on areas that i know i can get to water sources by foot...if i do go, ill be sure to let you guys know what i come up with


----------



## JBIV

Just putting it out there for any Barry CO. guys





Barry County QDMA Update

September 20, 2012


Deer deaths in Barry County

Several properties in Barry and surrounding counties have reported deer dying in August and on into September. Situations vary, some properties have had many dead deer and others a few.
The Barry County Branch of the Quality Deer Management Association (QDMA) will hold and information meeting on this situation Tuesday October 9th at 7:00 PM at the Hastings Elks Temple 102 E. Woodlawn. Speakers will be Dr. Al Eavey, DVM, Bull Creek Veterinary Service and Mark Bishop, retired DNR Wildlife Habitat Management.
Prior to the Oct 9th meeting land owners and hunters are encouraged to report any deer that you believe died of disease (not car or accidental deaths) to the DNR and also for Barry County deer if you will report them to our past QDMA Branch President, Mark Hewitt he will mark them on a county map. 

The information from the DNR web page is as follows:

Much of the observation data that we receive comes not from the Department's efforts, but from the public. We encourage you to share with us information about observations of the species listed below. Thank you for your time and assistance.

http://www.michigandnr.com/diseasedwildlifereporting/disease_obsreport.asp

Mark Hewitts contact information is:
Please let me know of any confirmed dead deer in your area. Im mapping them on a map in my office.  Mark Hewitt, Past President, Barry County QDMA Branch 
[email protected]

Update submitted by:
Bill Bivens, Secretary QDMA Barry County Branch




.


----------



## Spike Country

WacoKid said:


> Stateland up here in nlp is about to be a busy place had been quiet last few years have a feeling that's going to change.But hey that's what it's here for so if you end up in Roscommon and pass by my camp stop by and have a beer least I could do for what you guys are dealing with feel awful.
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Now that's what I'm talking about!ne_eye: Not sure where but I think a northern trip is in the plans.


----------



## sniper22mag

There is nothing we can do about ehd. The only thing we can do as hunters and sportsman this year is be a little self governing when it comes to pulling the trigger. I think next year is when it will really hit home and people are going to be surprised on how many deer they are not seeing. The numbers that are currently out there do not give any in site on what is really happening. I live in muskegon co west side of the state. I run the river a few times a week. Currently numbers are below 100 last time i looked. According to the dnr. Just in 1 mile stretch of river i and others have counted way more than that. Those are the one that make it to the river. I am sure there are way more in the cat tales and woods. I am lead to believe this because where there are not signs of deer, you sure can smell them. I think alot of people who are not proactive in the woods or have not seen the extent of edh yet are oblivious to what is going on. From what most of us have seen in the way of ehd are trying to say is. The places that are not affected or as hard it with ehd. The out lining areas around the ehd infected areas are what is going to be need to repopulate the decimated ehd areas. So as a sportsman/stewards of the woods,water and air where the sports take place in, lets show a little self-restraint this year. That way we have many more years to come that we can enjoy our sport.


----------



## swampbuck

WacoKid said:


> Stateland up here in nlp is about to be a busy place had been quiet last few years have a feeling that's going to change.But hey that's what it's here for so if you end up in Roscommon and pass by my camp stop by and have a beer least I could do for what you guys are dealing with feel awful.
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine





hartman756 said:


> Yep I agree on both points. A lot of public land up this way and for those that have the means to make it happen you should be able to find a spot to hunt!!
> 
> 
> c hartman


What's ironic is that even after EHD wipe's out their SLP deer herd, They will still have a deer density equal too or higher than much of the NLP and UP including most of Roscommon county.

Based on what has happened here with low density, Heres what you can expect.....Hunters will still kill does and the MDNR will increase (or bring back) antlerless permits as the density continues its freefall. That is our current reality and quite likely your future.


----------



## Rainman68

hartman756 said:


> Buy back what licences?? The ones from the hunters that arnt sucessful? Alittle different here in Michigan........you walk into a licence outlet and buy one..........unless you bought a combo in the spring you already knew ,or should have as much as it has been publicized ,there was an outbreak of EHD...........
> 
> 
> c hartman





Waz_51 said:


> the season hasnt started yet, it would be quite simple for this to be a possibility


There is no reason to buy back licenses. Stop selling antlerless in EHD areas. DMU 486 started out with 500k available, take a look at what is left.....right from the DNR web site, not making the numbers up. Under 50k sold to this point. 

2486 *458075* PRIVATE LAND DMU 486 EXCEPT COMM FOREST LANDS 

Heck in NLP you have to jump on your opportunity at an antlerless tag, in the lower it's it's considered a GIVEN. Seems pretty simple to me but what do I know.


----------



## RackSmacker

Another nice buck from Calhoun county down. Sad


----------



## boomer_x7

swampbuck said:


> What's ironic is that even after EHD wipe's out their SLP deer herd, They will still have a deer density equal too or higher than much of the NLP and UP including most of Roscommon county.
> 
> Based on what has happened here with low density, Heres what you can expect.....Hunters will still kill does and the MDNR will increase (or bring back) antlerless permits as the density continues its freefall. That is our current reality and quite likely your future.


Sad but true....


They released doe permitd this year based on the last three winters..... Now while the theory may make cents. There lack of obtaining real herd numbers will only cost them dollars.


----------



## Rylin

Anyone still agree with the millions and millions of dollars that are spent on researching CWD? CWD is like the common cold compared to EHD. More deer will die in Michigan in the next two to three weeks from EHD than have ever died across the country from CWD. CWD is a scare tactic that the government has passed off as the ultimate threat to deer. We are seeing first hand that EHD has always been and still is the biggest threat to deer. 

Only one deer has ever tested positive for CWD in Michigan. I bet the real number by the end of Fall will be over 100,000 dead from EHD. Just think if the millions and millions of dollars that were spent wastefully on CWD research were spent on EHD research? EHD is NOT NEW, it is just new to Michigan at this level. Southern states live through this every year.


----------



## hartman756

swampbuck said:


> What's ironic is that even after EHD wipe's out their SLP deer herd, They will still have a deer density equal too or higher than much of the NLP and UP including most of Roscommon county.
> 
> Based on what has happened here with low density, Heres what you can expect.....Hunters will still kill does and the MDNR will increase (or bring back) antlerless permits as the density continues its freefall. That is our current reality and quite likely your future.


 

Yes but what we lack in quanity we make up in quality.........think rompola buck...........hard to top a buck like that in the SLP:coolgleam 





c hartman


----------



## swampbuck

hartman756 said:


> Yes but what we lack in quanity we make up in quality.........think rompola buck...........hard to top a buck like that in the SLP:coolgleam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> c hartman


sssshhhhhhhhhh !!!!, Dont say that out loud.


----------



## tdduckman

Rylin said:


> Anyone still agree with the millions and millions of dollars that are spent on researching CWD? CWD is like the common cold compared to EHD. More deer will die in Michigan in the next two to three weeks from EHD than have ever died across the country from CWD. CWD is a scare tactic that the government has passed off as the ultimate threat to deer. We are seeing first hand that EHD has always been and still is the biggest threat to deer.
> 
> Only one deer has ever tested positive for CWD in Michigan. I bet the real number by the end of Fall will be over 100,000 dead from EHD. Just think if the millions and millions of dollars that were spent wastefully on CWD research were spent on EHD research? EHD is NOT NEW, it is just new to Michigan at this level. Southern states live through this every year.


Nice second post.

Lets see.


100,000 dead - ok if thats what you believe fine its hard to argue with numbers pulled from the air.
EHD is an illness that is caused by a virus spread by a biting fly under specific conditions and when present over a long time the deer build up immunity. There is little cross over to cattle and other ungulates, and no evidence of transmission to humans.




CWD is a Prion which is not as well understood and the means of transmission is still debated. The total effects of CWD on a population are very severe and long term. It is transferable to other species and is fatal in all cases. Much more research is needed to understand transmission and how to handle the Disease in both wild and domestic animals. 
There is evidence that people can help spread the disease by moving infected animals dead or alive to new areas. There are concerns about its ability to affect humans based on the Mad cow outbreak in Britain 



So I for one am glad we are spending money on CWD as far as EHD goes you are correct that other states deal with it every year. We will have to look at the programs they have and make adjustments if needed.

TD


----------



## Hulk

tdduckman said:


> Nice second post.
> 
> EHD is an illness that is caused by a virus spread by a biting fly under specific conditions and *when present over a long time the deer build up immunity.*
> 
> 
> 
> This is wrong.
> The infected doe that survives and her direct offspring are immune to that particular strain of EHD that the doe was exposed to. That's it!
> The "immunity" ends there, does not carry on, if it did there would be no such thing as EHD.


----------



## Munsterlndr

tdduckman said:


> Nice second post.
> 
> Lets see.
> 
> 
> 100,000 dead - ok if thats what you believe fine its hard to argue with numbers pulled from the air.
> EHD is an illness that is caused by a virus spread by a biting fly under specific conditions and when present over a long time the deer build up immunity. There is little cross over to cattle and other ungulates, and no evidence of transmission to humans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CWD is a Prion which is not as well understood and the means of transmission is still debated. The total effects of CWD on a population are very severe and long term. *It is transferable to other species* and is fatal in all cases. Much more research is needed to understand transmission and how to handle the Disease in both wild and domestic animals.
> There is evidence that people can help spread the disease by moving infected animals dead or alive to new areas. There are concerns about its ability to affect humans based on the Mad cow outbreak in Britain
> 
> So I for one am glad we are spending money on CWD as far as EHD goes you are correct that other states deal with it every year. We will have to look at the programs they have and make adjustments if needed.
> 
> TD


Don't disagree with anything in your post with the exception of the part I bolded in red. CWD is a TSE specific to Cervidae, there is no evidence that it is naturally transferable to other species at this point in time.


----------



## tdduckman

Hulk said:


> tdduckman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice second post.
> 
> EHD is an illness that is caused by a virus spread by a biting fly under specific conditions and *when present over a long time the deer build up immunity.*
> 
> 
> 
> This is wrong.
> The infected doe that survives and her direct offspring are immune to that particular strain of EHD that the doe was exposed to. That's it!
> The "immunity" ends there, does not carry on, if it did there would be no such thing as EHD.
> 
> 
> 
> Like any virus there has to be exposure to build immunity so you are correct, the point was this is bad but not as bad as CWD as the poster claims.
> 
> Do you think EHD is worse then CWD? Do you think we should spend more money on EHD vs CWD?
> 
> 
> TD
Click to expand...


----------



## Hulk

Rylin said:


> To the point that the CWD deer was found in an enclosure. Why werent the rest of the deer in that enclosure affected? They killed the guys whole enclosure off and found nothing more? If it spreads so easy, why didnt more of them have CWD?


That's the million dollar question!
Many do believe it was a mis diagnosis!


----------



## Uncle Boopoo

Latest numbers have been posted. Over 4200 for a total number. Last week was the worst week so far with over 1400 cases. Up to 26 effected counties now. Can't fig out how to post the link on my phone.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## me223656

Uncle Boopoo said:


> Latest numbers have been posted. Over 4200 for a total number. Last week was the worst week so far with over 1400 cases. Up to 26 effected counties now. Can't fig out how to post the link on my phone.
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


The link never works on my phone. Still shows me the first week numbers even if i refresh it. The weather is turning fast now. Hope for frost. Im not in an effected area but my prayers go out to you guys who are. It is gtting closer each week though

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## anonymous7242016

me223656 said:


> The link never works on my phone. Still shows me the first week numbers even if i refresh it. The weather is turning fast now. Hope for frost. Im not in an effected area but my prayers go out to you guys who are. It is gtting closer each week though
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


http://www.michigan.gov/emergingdiseases/0,4579,7-186--283966--,00.html


----------



## Liver and Onions

Bump. Not working ?

Edit: ?? That worked, but my screen says that there are 57 pages and this is page 55. Seems odd that no one posted again in this thread after Saturday.

L & O


----------



## bradepb

Yea something is strange


----------



## Waz_51

maybe just a busy weekend with the youth hunt and the EAS...maybe the DNR is assassinating the outspoken people from this thread? :lol:


----------



## HUBBHUNTER

I chatted with a neighbor on Friday who said no one in their camp will be shooting anything for 3 years. While that may or may not be a little on the extreme side and will probably change in the future it is comforting knowing that some of the neighboring properties are willing to give the herd a chance to recover. 

I was out to the farm on Saturday and even though I didn't go look for any deer there was death in the vicinity. I saw more turkey buzzards at one time flying over our property than I've seen deer since June.:sad:


----------



## NovemberWhitetailz

HUBBHUNTER said:


> I chatted with a neighbor on Friday who said no one in their camp will be shooting anything for 3 years. While that may or may not be a little on the extreme side and will probably change in the future it is comforting knowing that some of the neighboring properties are willing to give the herd a chance to recover.
> 
> I was out to the farm on Saturday and even though I didn't go look for any deer there was death in the vicinity. I saw more turkey buzzards at one time flying over our property than I've seen deer since June.:sad:


 
This is why you shouldn't drink before noon. NO DOES for three years.... Not, No Hunting for three years :lol:


----------



## anonymous7242016

Are the new updates out yet? 

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## Hunt'N'Fish

bucksnbows said:


> Are the new updates out yet?


Nope , Not Yet.


----------



## Waz_51

this map says as of september 21st...are they moving to updates on fridays now?

http://www.michigan.gov/images/emergingdiseases/EHD_2012_Reports_map_394528_7.jpg


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## Esta la verdad

They updated it from the 19th to the 21st? Every 2 days would make more sense based on call/report volume.


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## anonymous7242016

Waz_51 said:


> this map says as of september 21st...are they moving to updates on fridays now?
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/images/emergingdiseases/EHD_2012_Reports_map_394528_7.jpg


 
I clicked on the link it said September 25. Up over 6000 reports......2000+ more than a week ago:yikes:


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## HUBBHUNTER

Frost/Freeze warning for Montcalm county and to the north. We sure do need this in the SLP, I hope this helps you guys to the north.:sad:


----------



## NovemberWhitetailz

bucksnbows said:


> I clicked on the link it said September 25. Up over 6000 reports......2000+ more than a week ago:yikes:


Small print.... but I think it shows 6348 dead? Oh man! :rant:


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## Liver and Onions

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_12150-283966--,00.html

Numbers chart. Look back at Waz_51 post for map.


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## anonymous7242016

HUBBHUNTER said:


> Frost/Freeze warning for Montcalm county and to the north. We sure do need this in the SLP, I hope this helps you guys to the north.:sad:


 My buddy who lives basically at the property said this will be the 3rd frost this month.


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## NovemberWhitetailz

WOW :SHOCKED:

But, I assumed the numbers would jump now that some people are finally noticing an issue along with the early doe season and last minute stand prep.


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## anonymous7242016

HUBBHUNTER2 said:


> WOW :SHOCKED:
> 
> But, I assumed the numbers would jump now that some people are finally noticing an issue along with the early doe season and last minute stand prep.


 
Yes. That is why I suspect the huge jumps from 67 to 172 and then to 386 in Montcalm. More people getting into the woods combined with the EAS and youth hunts. I'm sure the first couple of weeks of bow season may show more reports too.


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## B1g daddy of 3

I hope its over now. After the frost


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## November Sunrise

Waz_51 said:


> do you guys think its over with after that hard frost we just had?


I'd guess so.


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## vans

B1g daddy of 3 said:


> I hope its over now. After the frost


So do I, the area I hunt, Cass County, was hit hard last year,counted over 80 head on the 2700 acre parcel I hunt

thought we might be spared this year, found two bucks floating in small lake on property yesterday- bummer- wonder how many others have died

Didn't know there were even two left, as what was a healthy deer herd is now down to so few that you hardly even see any

Hopefully this isn't a disease that stays around forever


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## Oger

Just got a call from a guy who knows a couple of biologists that work for the state and according to him the biologists recommended we cancel deer season in the affected areas but he says the state overode him for financial reasons. ........who knows though I cant confirm this....just relaying info

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## Munsterlndr

Oger said:


> Just got a call from a guy who knows a couple of biologists that work for the state and according to him the biologists recommended we cancel deer season in the affected areas but he says the state overode him for financial reasons. ........who knows though I cant confirm this....just relaying info


Sorry to break it to you but your buddy is misinformed, the rumor he's floating is simply a load of crap.


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## walleyeassasin

Just heard the latest number of confirmed EHD cases in Michigan is now at 8,700. When I said a few weeks ago we could lose a hundred thousand deer people thought I was crazy, but now it looks very possible. If you figure we only find one of every ten dead deer we're at 87,000...from mike averys page.. 

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## Oger

Eddie munster.......i said in my post i couldnt confirm it and was just relaying what i was told.....but what qualifies you so much to be soooo high and mighty to say its false and we should believe you and not him

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## Oger

And I guess since he is a Jackson County CO and you live up in Traverse City he might know lil bit more about it than you

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## Rainman68

Oger said:


> And I guess since he is a Jackson County CO and you live up in Traverse City he might know lil bit more about it than you
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


I'd put my money on Munster


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## Munsterlndr

Oger said:


> Eddie munster.......i said in my post i couldnt confirm it and was just relaying what i was told.....but what qualifies you so much to be soooo high and mighty to say its false and we should believe you and not him


Because I know enough about how the DNR works to recognize a total fabrication when I see one. 

The only body that has jurisdiction over making the decision to "suspend" hunting seasons is the NRC. So when your buddy says the "State" ignored the biologist recommendations, he must be talking about the NRC. I go to the monthly NRC meetings and I know for a fact that such a recommendation has neither been considered or acted upon by the NRC, so his claim that the "State" decided to proceed with the season anyway for "financial reasons" is pure and simple BS. 

Secondly, field biologists don't tend to offer unsolicited policy recommendations, it's not their job to do so and in the unusual event they did so, I highly doubt they would be sharing that information with the general public. Before any such recommendation was actually presented to the people who make the decisions (the NRC) it would have to work it's way up the food chain to the top. I spent a couple of hours last week meeting with the the Supervisor of the DNR wildlife disease section and the chief epidemiologist for the DNR, essentially the top two biologists in the DNR, talking about disease issues, including the current EHD outbreak and the idea of cancelling deer season in EHD areas was never mentioned. Such a recommendation would have to go through both of those gentlemen before it was ever presented to the NRC. So I know for a fact that the story that your buddy is spreading is simply a fable. 

It's not uncommon for people to take shots at the DNR and sometimes it may even be justified but in regards to their handling of the EHD situation, it's my opinion that criticism is totally unwarranted. Spreading such unsubstantiated rumors serves no useful purpose, all it does is ramp up an already highly charged situation. 

If your buddy is such an accurate source of information, ask him to name names and be specific. Who are these biologists and who is the "State" who made the decision he claims was made? I'm not holding my breath on this one......:lol:


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## Oger

He is a CO and neither am I or he understandably is not going to jeopardize his job by giving his name or source. Personally I could give two #$%@'s if you believe me or not. I was just passing on what I was told from who I believe to be a credible source. You might want ti got and look up a definition of a blog or forum though so you dont get your panties in such a bind in the future when someone posts something you dont agree with unless of course this is your personal forum.......oh thats right ITS NOT....SO RELAX.

Outdoor Hub bile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## Munsterlndr

Oger said:


> He is a CO and neither am I or he understandably is not going to jeopardize his job by giving his name or source. Personally I could give two #$%@'s if you believe me or not. I was just passing on what I was told from who I believe to be a credible source. You might want ti got and look up a definition of a blog or forum though so you dont get your panties in such a bind in the future when someone posts something you dont agree with unless of course this is your personal forum.......oh thats right ITS NOT....SO RELAX.
> 
> Outdoor Hub bile, the outdoor information engine


So now your buddy is a CO and he claims that several DNR biologists recommended canceling deer season in some areas and were over-ruled by the "State" , so the state could make more money off of license sales?

:lol::lol:

Sorry, not buying what you're selling. Sounds like a bar stool tale that is getting bigger with each telling. :lol:


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## QDMAMAN

Munsterlndr said:


> I go to the monthly NRC meetings...


Is Madigan wearing red plaid today?:lol:
Say yah to da UP eh!


----------



## HTC

HA! He called you Eddie Munster. I have seen you called a lot of things on here but that one is new. 

Oger you may be right but I suspect if you keep up the fight you will end up like this famous character:


----------



## PappaM

Heard some talk of EHD around MIO. I know there'e nothing reported on the map, so does anyone know if un-confirmed cases are thought to be in the area or is it all talk by the locals?


----------



## tdduckman

Oger said:


> He is a CO and neither am I or he understandably is not going to jeopardize his job by giving his name or source. Personally I could give two #$%@'s if you believe me or not. I was just passing on what I was told from who I believe to be a credible source. You might want ti got and look up a definition of a blog or forum though so you dont get your panties in such a bind in the future when someone posts something you dont agree with unless of course this is your personal forum.......oh thats right ITS NOT....SO RELAX.
> 
> Outdoor Hub bile, the outdoor information engine


 
This does not pass the smell test. not only is the "STATE" going to ignore its biologists recommendation. They are going to fire the CO who reports it.


I guess the fact that the Biologists have gone on record that this is a local issue that will have little impact on the overall deer herd, was done with a gun to their collective heads.

All those concerned out EHD wiping out the herd please take the season off.


Let the rest of us get back to hunting the deer (in most cases over population goals) that remain.


TD


----------



## Waz_51

tdduckman said:


> This does not pass the smell test. not only is the "STATE" going to ignore its biologists recommendation. They are going to fire the CO who reports it.
> 
> 
> I guess the fact that the Biologists have gone on record that this is a local issue that will have little impact on the overall deer herd, was done with a gun to their collective heads.
> 
> *All those concerned out EHD wiping out the herd please take the season off*.
> 
> 
> Let the rest of us get back to hunting the deer (in most cases over population goals) that remain.
> 
> 
> TD



i guess the same could be said about the people who dont take it seriously enough...unless youre in an area that doesnt have this problem...in that case, why do you continue to bother the people who cant hunt their own properties?! this thread was made to discuss the numbers and impact of EHD, not to badger the people who are suffering through it...please, if you have nothing positive to offer to the thread then keep your unwarranted comments to yourself


----------



## MIhunt

Oger said:


> He is a CO and neither am I or he understandably is not going to jeopardize his job by giving his name or source. Personally I could give two #$%@'s if you believe me or not. I was just passing on what I was told from who I believe to be a credible source. You might want ti got and look up a definition of a blog or forum though so you dont get your panties in such a bind in the future when someone posts something you dont agree with unless of course this is your personal forum.......oh thats right ITS NOT....SO RELAX.
> 
> Outdoor Hub bile, the outdoor information engine


I hate to be the bearer of bad news but your the one seems to"have his panties in a bind". He never went off on bad information and started screaming and condemning you as a full blown liar. You were actually the first one that seemed to have anger in his post. And if naming his source might jeopardize his job then he shouldnt have told you.


----------



## tdduckman

Waz_51 said:


> i guess the same could be said about the people who dont take it seriously enough...unless youre in an area that doesnt have this problem...in that case, why do you continue to bother the people who cant hunt their own properties?! this thread was made to discuss the numbers and impact of EHD, not to badger the people who are suffering through it...please, if you have nothing positive to offer to the thread then keep your unwarranted comments to yourself


 
I think helping people put things in proper perspective is more important than over - reacting to a bad local problem.
The 486 area is OVER population on deer which is why the liberal antlerless permits are issued. If a small area is killed off then deer will move in from other areas. Also in low population environments does will have more triplets and twins. Finally the 486 area is in a agriculture area which allows for a higher % of fawns being breed.
The sky has not fallen
If you are not seeing deer dont shoot the ones you dont see.
TD


----------



## Waz_51

tdduckman said:


> I think helping people put things in proper perspective is more important than over - reacting to a bad local problem.
> The 486 area is OVER population on deer which is why the liberal antlerless permits are issued. If a small area is killed off then deer will move in from other areas. Also in low population environments does will have more triplets and twins. Finally the 486 area is in a agriculture area which allows for a higher % of fawns being breed.
> The sky has not fallen
> If you are not seeing deer dont shoot the ones you dont see.
> TD


to think that an area as large as DMU 486 can be properly managed after what this disease has done in some areas can be summed up as "wishful thinking"...in order to handle this situation properly, they need to split it up into DMUs for each county until the herd has stabilized itself from this outbreak...unless, of course, it comes back again season after season and claims more and more deer...there is a night and day difference between Ionia county and, say, Bay county in terms of herd densities now and they should be managed on separate playing fields


----------



## Waz_51

tdduckman said:


> I think helping people put things in proper perspective is more important than over - reacting to a bad local problem.
> The 486 area is OVER population on deer which is why the liberal antlerless permits are issued. If a small area is killed off then deer will move in from other areas. *Also in low population environments does will have more triplets and twins.* Finally the 486 area is in a agriculture area which allows for a higher % of fawns being breed.
> The sky has not fallen
> If you are not seeing deer don&#8217;t shoot the ones you don&#8217;t see.
> TD


how did you come up with that statement? im sure that people in the NLP and UP would have something else to say...theres more than one factor that goes into how many fawns are born each year besides low herd densities...even if habitat conditions are ideal, it wont make a lick of difference if there arent deer there to repopulate it in the first place


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## anonymous7242016

Oger said:


> Just got a call from a guy who knows a couple of biologists that work for the state and according to him *the biologists recommended we cancel deer season in the affected areas* but he says the state overode him for financial reasons. ........who knows though I cant confirm this....just relaying info
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine





tdduckman said:


> I think helping people put things in proper perspective is more important than over - reacting to a bad local problem.
> *The 486 area is OVER population on deer* which is why the liberal antlerless permits are issued. If a small area is killed off then deer will move in from other areas. Also in low population environments does will have more triplets and twins. Finally the 486 area is in a agriculture area which allows for a higher % of fawns being breed.
> The sky has not fallen
> If you are not seeing deer dont shoot the ones you dont see.
> TD


Hello again,
I have been planning the October update since early summer as I had intended to report about the start of our deer hunting seasons and expectations. As an avid bow hunter October 1 is always a day I look forward to and guard to ensure some time in the woods. However, deer season expectations take on a whole new meaning when considering the EHD outbreak this year. I wanted to use this update to let you all know what we have been doing in relation to the outbreak and what the future may hold.
As most of you have probably seen or heard, this year our deer herd in southern Michigan was and continues to be influenced by the EHD virus. This virus has been found in deer in our region since 2006, however at very low and localized levels. This year with a combination of mild winter, warm spring, and a hot, dry summer the midge that carries the virus has done very well resulting in a widespread EHD event. As of today the outbreak has been confirmed in 24 counties and resulted in over 6,500 dead deer (Note: as of Wednesday, the 3rd, it is over 8,000) being reported to the DNR with many others going undetected or unreported.* It is safe to say that the reported number of deer is at best the minimum.*
As in the past, the Wildlife Division has taken steps to confirm the presence and monitor the extent of the disease. This year initial reports of dead deer started in mid-July (normally initial reports start around Labor Day) and continued to increase through August and September. In the early stages of the outbreak Wildlife Division employees collected and submitted deer from multiple townships to confirm and identify the specific virus causing the disease. At the same time we began working with volunteer groups in Ionia/Clinton counties and Branch /Calhoun counties, as these appear to be the hardest hit areas. *These volunteer groups have been crucial in our efforts to monitor the number of deer dying as the Division just does not have the human resources to put in the level of effort the volunteers have been able to provide*. In addition to volunteers helping, we have been collecting reports at our various field offices and here at Plainwell. *Phone calls come in daily with reports of dead deer and we log each report on a spreadsheet to be compiled on a weekly basis by the Disease Lab in Lansing. Suffice it to say, our response to EHD this year has been tremendous, besides what I described above, we have attended numerous public meetings across the region, conducted many TV, Radio, and newspaper interviews, and talked to many individuals about the outbreak.*
So now what? You have probably heard some folks talking about closing the deer season or stopping the sale of antlerless licenses or some other form of regulation change. There are no plans for making changes to the 2012 deer hunting seasons or quotas. However, we will be looking at deer management across the state over the next year for possible recommended changes in 2013.* Although the timing would appear we are responding to EHD, the fact is that there are numerous trends (car-deer accidents, harvest, hunter effort, recruitment) that suggest the deer numbers are stabilizing or decreasing in some parts of southern Michigan. EHD then becomes one more factor to consider as we move forward with deer management.*
I was asked recently what the prospects are for the 2012 deer season in light of EHD. Hunters in EHD zones can obviously expect to see fewer deer, however the localized nature of the disease means that just a few miles away hunters may experience near normal hunting this year. Information from hunters participating in the Youth weekend this year seems to support that observation and indicate that there are still plenty of deer out there to be seen and harvested. In fact, to put some of this into perspective *we typically harvest about 250,000 deer from the southern Lower Peninsula during all the deer seasons combined. I expect harvest to go down some in 2012 due more to hunter behavior than the results of EHD.* Another question that has come up frequently relates to the consumption of infected deer. Since humans can not contract the disease, the meat is safe to consume.
In closing, *I have heard from many deer hunters that they will not hunt this year because of EHD. I strongly urge folks that enjoy deer hunting to not let this stop you from participating this year. You may have to adjust your expectations, change hunting locations, or maybe think twice before pulling the trigger.* I was able to enjoy the first morning of bow season this morning in a tree stand. I did bump a deer on my way into my stand and saw dozens of fresh tracks on my way out. *My hunting spot is pretty much in the middle of the Cass County affected area and although I have had to alter my expectations for the season, I will continue to be out there.*

Enjoy October,
Steve Chadwick
Southwest Region Supervisor, DNR  Wildlife Division"[/


----------



## downfloat

bucksnbows said:


> Hello again,
> I have been planning the October update since early summer as I had intended to report about the start of our deer hunting seasons and expectations. As an avid bow hunter October 1 is always a day I look forward to and guard to ensure some time in the woods. However, deer season expectations take on a whole new meaning when considering the EHD outbreak this year. I wanted to use this update to let you all know what we have been doing in relation to the outbreak and what the future may hold.
> As most of you have probably seen or heard, this year our deer herd in southern Michigan was and continues to be influenced by the EHD virus. This virus has been found in deer in our region since 2006, however at very low and localized levels. This year with a combination of mild winter, warm spring, and a hot, dry summer the midge that carries the virus has done very well resulting in a widespread EHD event. As of today the outbreak has been confirmed in 24 counties and resulted in over 6,500 dead deer (Note: as of Wednesday, the 3rd, it is over 8,000) being reported to the DNR with many others going undetected or unreported.* It is safe to say that the reported number of deer is at best the minimum.*
> As in the past, the Wildlife Division has taken steps to confirm the presence and monitor the extent of the disease. This year initial reports of dead deer started in mid-July (normally initial reports start around Labor Day) and continued to increase through August and September. In the early stages of the outbreak Wildlife Division employees collected and submitted deer from multiple townships to confirm and identify the specific virus causing the disease. At the same time we began working with volunteer groups in Ionia/Clinton counties and Branch /Calhoun counties, as these appear to be the hardest hit areas. *These volunteer groups have been crucial in our efforts to monitor the number of deer dying as the Division just does not have the human resources to put in the level of effort the volunteers have been able to provide*. In addition to volunteers helping, we have been collecting reports at our various field offices and here at Plainwell. *Phone calls come in daily with reports of dead deer and we log each report on a spreadsheet to be compiled on a weekly basis by the Disease Lab in Lansing. Suffice it to say, our response to EHD this year has been tremendous, besides what I described above, we have attended numerous public meetings across the region, conducted many TV, Radio, and newspaper interviews, and talked to many individuals about the outbreak.*
> So now what? You have probably heard some folks talking about closing the deer season or stopping the sale of antlerless licenses or some other form of regulation change. There are no plans for making changes to the 2012 deer hunting seasons or quotas. However, we will be looking at deer management across the state over the next year for possible recommended changes in 2013.* Although the timing would appear we are responding to EHD, the fact is that there are numerous trends (car-deer accidents, harvest, hunter effort, recruitment) that suggest the deer numbers are stabilizing or decreasing in some parts of southern Michigan. EHD then becomes one more factor to consider as we move forward with deer management.*
> I was asked recently what the prospects are for the 2012 deer season in light of EHD. Hunters in EHD zones can obviously expect to see fewer deer, however the localized nature of the disease means that just a few miles away hunters may experience near normal hunting this year. Information from hunters participating in the Youth weekend this year seems to support that observation and indicate that there are still plenty of deer out there to be seen and harvested. In fact, to put some of this into perspective *we typically harvest about 250,000 deer from the southern Lower Peninsula during all the deer seasons combined. I expect harvest to go down some in 2012 due more to hunter behavior than the results of EHD.* Another question that has come up frequently relates to the consumption of infected deer. Since humans can not contract the disease, the meat is safe to consume.
> In closing, *I have heard from many deer hunters that they will not hunt this year because of EHD. I strongly urge folks that enjoy deer hunting to not let this stop you from participating this year. You may have to adjust your expectations, change hunting locations, or maybe think twice before pulling the trigger.* I was able to enjoy the first morning of bow season this morning in a tree stand. I did bump a deer on my way into my stand and saw dozens of fresh tracks on my way out. *My hunting spot is pretty much in the middle of the Cass County affected area and although I have had to alter my expectations for the season, I will continue to be out there.*
> 
> Enjoy October,
> Steve Chadwick
> Southwest Region Supervisor, DNR &#150; Wildlife Division"[/


Thanks Steve for an honest outlook! I have seen the effect of EHD on the state land I hunt. But it has not deterred me from going out and enjoying the great outdoors that Michigan has to offer. The recent frost hopefully has stopped the spread, but only time will tell the effect on the hunting season. It is only October 11, all this paranoia reminds me slightly of the later salmon runs up north. Go out and enjoy! Good luck to all


Rob



Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## Waz_51

downfloat said:


> Thanks Steve for an honest outlook! I have seen the effect of EHD on the state land I hunt. But it has not deterred me from going out and enjoying the great outdoors that Michigan has to offer. The recent frost hopefully has stopped the spread, but only time will tell the effect on the hunting season. It is only October 11, all this paranoia reminds me slightly of the later salmon runs up north. Go out and enjoy! Good luck to all
> 
> 
> Rob
> 
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine



:lol: i believe that was a letter from Steve Chadwick addressing the hunters in Michigan...although im sure BnB will be flattered when he reads that!


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## Oger

Yes you friggin stool he is a CO who knows a couple of biologist that told him this information......If you would have read my post before running your mouth maybe you come more credible.......your right he is a CO who is a liar.......150000 posts i think you need to actually get in the woods a little more

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


----------



## tdduckman

Oger said:


> Yes you friggin stool he is a CO who knows a couple of biologist that told him this information......If you would have read my post before running your mouth maybe you come more credible.......your right he is a CO who is a liar.......150000 posts i think you need to actually get in the woods a little more
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


sorry but I do not think any person who is slightly informed would believe this

TD


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## Oger

You know what, this is ridiculous.....your right .....he is wrong. Sorry I brought it up........I feel sorry for you...

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## Munsterlndr

Oger said:


> Yes you friggin stool he is a CO who knows a couple of biologist that told him this information......If you would have read my post before running your mouth maybe you come more credible.......your right he is a CO who is a liar.......150000 posts i think you need to actually get in the woods a little more


So according to you, a CO from Jackson County is spreading rumors that several DNR biologists recommended that deer hunting be cancelled in the EHD area but were shot down because the DNR wants to make more money from license revenue? 

Keep digging dude, that hole isn't deep enough yet! :lol:


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## Oger

Wow.........your quick

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## Oger

Also brainchild I never said several biologists and I never said to make more money.I said they didnt want to cancel it for financial reasons.This isnt chemistry, makes sense to me. If you are budgeted for x amount of revenue then changes need to be made with the next budget.......OH but that probably doesnt sound conspiracy theory enough for you....

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


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## DeereGuy

Are you saying a DNR office in Jackson County said that....shouldn't be hard to figure out who that is....

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


----------



## tdduckman

Oger said:


> Yes you friggin stool he is a CO who knows a couple of biologist that told him this information......If you would have read my post before running your mouth maybe you come more credible.......your right he is a CO who is a liar.......150000 posts i think you need to actually get in the woods a little more
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


 
Fact: the amount of deer killed will not bring the popluation down to the level Biologists would need to recommend stopping the season. so your "story does not make sense. 

Fact: if the deer population was BELOW the desired level there would still be a buck season as this does not effect total population growth.

Fact: The deer licenses sold could still be used in other areas so it would be possible to close an area for hunting while still keeping the cash. So there is no actual reason not to close the season IF it was needed (its not) 

Fact: people are seeing deer in the EHD areas, and are adjusting their expectations based on their observations

YOUR STORY IS AN INSTANT INTERNET LEGEND 

that is all

TD


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## anonymous7242016

Waz_51 said:


> :lol: i believe that was a letter from Steve Chadwick addressing the hunters in Michigan...although im sure BnB will be flattered when he reads that!


:lol::lol:

Ya those are not my words but an email from Steve Chadwick.


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## MIhunt

Oger said:


> Yes you friggin stool he is a CO who knows a couple of biologist that told him this information......If you would have read my post before running your mouth maybe you come more credible.......your right he is a CO who is a liar.......150000 posts i think you need to actually get in the woods a little more
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


And you need to get out in the woods more to relax because your trying to chop everyones head off. Just because someone has a lot of post doesnt mean that they dont hunt. The hunting season is 3 months out of 12. That means he has 9 months to think about hunting and post in the forums. And your "CO friend" may want to think about who he tells what information.


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## anonymous7242016

Sometimes I hate saying this, but, Munster is right on this one.


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## cakebaker

Oger said:


> Also brainchild I never said several biologists and I never said to make more money.I said they didnt want to cancel it for financial reasons.This isnt chemistry, makes sense to me. If you are budgeted for x amount of revenue then changes need to be made with the next budget.......OH but that probably doesnt sound conspiracy theory enough for you....
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


 
hopefully more furlough days for your buddies.


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## Liver and Onions

I didn't see where last weeks numbers were posted. Sorry if this is a repeat. The map link is also on this link.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_12150-283966--,00.html

L & O


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## stndpenguin

One things for sure the stink is finally starting to die off a bit.. hopefully the monster frost we got mid week was enough to put a knife in the back of ehd in this area.. getting some pictures of bucks again.. lots of little guys but its a glimmer of hope for next year i suppose?


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## Liver and Onions

http://www.michigan.gov/images/emergingdiseases/EHD_2012_Reports_map_394528_7.jpg

Updated map. Oct 16th. Do not see the new numbers chart yet. Should be available soon.

L & O


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## Liver and Onions

New (Oct.16th) numbers chart.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_12150-283966--,00.html

Now I wish I had printed last week's numbers since this one only has the totals. I think as of last week the total was about 8,500. Now over 10k. Kent County now over 1,600 reported and less than 600 behind Ionia Co. Is this a big jump for Kent or did I just not notice that number for a few weeks ?

L & O


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## sniper22mag

Personally from the counties I hunt. I think the numbers are higher than they are projecting. There never will be a real count only estimated.


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## anonymous7242016

By the number of shots I heard coming from the south of me way off in the distance in the more hard hit areas of Montcalm county I would say ehd did not kill them all.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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## Ken

same in Ionia. Lots of shots the first day. Just not in directions they typically are from us. We saw many more deer than expected. I'm guessing the core areas got really hit in certain spots, but the deer have filled back in from other areas. We had no deer on the property in September. The later rut helped, because the majority of the deer we were seeing moving were bucks.


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## steve myers

our area in branch only lost a couple and as many deer as ever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hespler

I Hunt the Livingston Washtinaw County line, last year with as many sits as i have this year i seen 85 deer ( I keep a log over the years ) this year 4 deer . Cant wait to see how many more doe permits DNR hands out next year.:lol::rant:


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## NovemberWhitetailz

After finally getting to talk to the neighbors that surround our property over the weekend it looks like most of the deer that were found were does. Neighbor to our west said his total was 16 does,fawns and a couple BB. North prop owner found 6 does and one small buck. Prop to our SW found 6 does . Which explains why i've only seen a handfull of adult does while on stand. 
Fast forward to the gun opener.... I probably saw 60 deer that day, granted some where just making rounds but I did see a good # of adult does. If we decide to take any does we are going to wait till after gun season to see what's still alive and exactly how many does stayed on our property. All of the surrounding crops are down so now we should be able to get a pretty accurate count. 
Not too many shots, I'm thinking I heard more rifle shots (shotgun zone) and shots after hours than I did at any point :rant:


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## Chuck

in the Allegan SGA for gun opener I saw one deer and it was the 8 point I shot. I also didnt hear hardly any shooting for a public land opener. Camp numbers were also down. Seems like every year its less deer and less hunters. 

During archery sightings were way down. Buck sign was also hard to find but then in November it started to pop up more. I only found one area with a decent number of does every where else seemed like there were just not that many. There were days I spend 6 hours walking threw different areas looking for sign. These weren't random areas these were areas I am familiar with and have hunted and found sign in before. I also walked around different wood blocks and counted tracks crossing the dirt roads in different areas. Some spots I walked a 1/2 mile or more before I would see one track. 

Around my house in Van Buren County I have seen a few deer and heard a little shooting. I noticed more of the hunters around there are done hunting by 9am. Kinda weird since im used to public land where hunters go till 11 at least. Game cams are showing fewer deer around. I moved them around though as the sign seems there. Food plots for next year are going to be corn and beans, the deer dont seem to care about anything else around there.


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## Liver and Onions

The lastest numbers:

http://www.michigan.gov/images/emergingdiseases/EHD_2012_Reports_map_394528_7.jpg

Under 300 more reported since the last report on Nov. 13th. No report filed last week. 

This thread has been a big hit. Over 100,000 hits and over 1,000 posts.

L & O


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## Liver and Onions

One more bump. I was expecting one last report from the DNR on this topic to come out before the end of the year.
Probably very few additional reports from landowners since 11/27.

L & O


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## Chuck

A friend of mine is still finding them on there property now that the wind and snow has nocked down some of the saw grass in there swamp. They have found a lot of nice bucks so far.


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