# ? for Boehr re: shooting dogs



## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

Boehr

There is a thread going on regarding shooting dogs while hunting. From what I've read it seems illegal to shoot a dog even if you're the property owner. My question involves the wording of the law

The law states that:

*287.279 Killing of dog pursuing, worrying, or wounding livestock or poultry, or attacking person; damages for trespass; effect of license tag.* 


Sec. 19.

Any person including a law enforcement officer may kill any dog which he sees in the act of pursuing, worrying, or wounding any livestock or poultry or attacking persons, and there shall be no liability on such person in damages or otherwise, for such killing. Any dog that enters any field or enclosure which is owned by or leased by a person producing livestock or poultry, outside of a city, unaccompanied by his owner or his owner's agent, shall constitute a trespass, and the owner shall be liable in damages. Except as provided in this section, it shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer, to kill or injure or attempt to kill or injure any dog which bears a license tag for the current year.

The last sentence makes reference to killing a dog with a tag for the current year. What if I find dogs on my property that aren't collared or showing licensing tags? Is it then legal to shoot these dogs as a landowner or do LEO's have to be called to rectify the problem

Please no posts regarding the ethics of shooting dogs - there is already a thread on the site for that.

Thanks


----------



## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

Radar420 said:


> The last sentence makes reference to killing a dog with a tag for the current year. What if I find dogs on my property that aren't collared or showing licensing tags? Is it then legal to shoot these dogs as a landowner or do LEO's have to be called to rectify the problem


If you find a dog on your property that aren't collared or showing a licensing tag you can shoot him IF and ONLY IF .... 

"Any person including a law enforcement officer may kill any dog which he sees in the *act of pursuing, worrying, or wounding any livestock or poultry or attacking persons*, and there shall be no liability on such person in damages or otherwise, for such killing."

If the 'condition' (the bolded portion above) of the law is not fulfilled you can not shoot.

If you do shoot and don't meet the condition of the law, the the next section becomes void i.e., the 'shall be no liability' part....and you can be held liable for damages for killing the dog.


You can NOT shoot any dog in any situation that is displaying a current tag. A LEO must be called and he can dispatch the animial.


My question is that the law does not address 'public' visave 'private' land - maybe for a good reason. And the term 'worrying' is OPEN and likely a judge will decide what that means in real terms.

ferg....


----------



## Duckman Racing (Oct 11, 2004)

Ferg said:


> You can NOT shoot any dog in any situation that is displaying a current tag. A LEO must be called and he can dispatch the animial.


I would disagree, based on the following:



Radar420 said:


> *Except as provided in this section*, it shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer, to kill or injure or attempt to kill or injure any dog which bears a license tag for the current year.


This section provides that it is legal to shoot a dog attacking your livestock. I would take this to mean that you can shoot any dog that is attacking your livestock. Seems like it would be hard to determine whether or not a dog had a tag for the current year when it is chasing livestock around.


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

I can tell you that even CO's have been sued for killing a dog running deer even though it is allowed by law, and the state has paid. The only time a citizen is permitted to kill a dog is when the dog is in the act of pursuing, worrying, or wounding any livestock or poultry or attacking persons, private or public property makes no difference.


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

I would also bring this point forward.

287.262 Dogs; licensing, tags, leashes.
Sec. 2. It shall be unlawful for any person to own any dog 6 months old or over, unless the dog is licensed as hereinafter provided, or to own any dog 6 months old or over that does not at all times wear a collar with a tag approved by the director of agriculture, attached as hereinafter provided, *except when engaged in lawful hunting accompanied by its owner or custodian*; or for any owner of any female dog to permit the female dog to go beyond the premises of such owner when she is in heat, unless the female dog is held properly in leash; or for any person except the owner or authorized agent, to remove any license tag from a dog; or for any owner to allow any dog, except working dogs such as leader dogs, guard dogs, farm dogs, hunting dogs, and other such dogs, when accompanied by their owner or his authorized agent, while actively engaged in activities for which such dogs are trained, to stray unless held properly in leash.

I don't believe "accompanied" here means right with the dog either. I believe it to mean in this context to be using the dog for hunting while the owner is hunting.


----------



## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

boehr said:


> I can tell you that even CO's have been sued for killing a dog running deer even though it is allowed by law, and the state has paid. The only time a citizen is permitted to kill a dog is when the dog is in the act of pursuing, worrying, or wounding any livestock or poultry or attacking persons, private or public property makes no difference.


But what about dogs that aren't wearing collars or tags? If the dog isn't registered and found to be roaming around, wouldn't it be considered a wild animal.

I just saw your other post Boehr. What if it doesn't have tags and isn't a hunting dog?


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

There could be differences of opinion on a definition of a wild dog. Just because a dog doesn't have a collar doesn't make it wild. You would have to better define "wild" since dogs are a domestic breed.


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Anyone that kills an animal that is the property of another might have to defend their actions in civil court. Some might think they can lie as impied in the other thread but I don't believe liars win and when they do it is very seldom.


----------



## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

Duckman Racing said:


> I would disagree, based on the following:
> 
> 
> This section provides that it is legal to shoot a dog attacking your livestock. I would take this to mean that you can shoot any dog that is attacking your livestock. Seems like it would be hard to determine whether or not a dog had a tag for the current year when it is chasing livestock around.


Based on the first condition being met - 

I think the basic question is still - 'can I shoot a collerless dog running on my property'

The simple answer is NO. You can not shoot that dog 'just because' it's on your property and is without a tag or coller. The condition of the law must first be meet - that of the act of pursuing, worrying, or wounding any livestock or poultry or attacking persons

ferg....


----------



## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

I, personally, would never lie in court

The reason I asked the question is because the neighboring property has two large unchained dogs that are allowed to roam free. As far as I can tell, they spend their entire day outside. I've seen the dogs twice on our property while hunting, and have nearly ran the car into the ditch trying to avoid the things when they come shooting out at the car. All I see is a flash of brown when that happens - happens so fast can't tell if its dogs or deer until after the fact.

Anyway to answer the other question about defining wild

Merriam - Webster dictionary 

wild - not subject to restrain or regulation, uncontrolled


----------



## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

Radar420 said:


> I, personally, would never lie in court
> 
> The reason I asked the question is because the neighboring property has two large unchained dogs that are allowed to roam free. As far as I can tell, they spend their entire day outside. I've seen the dogs twice on our property while hunting, and have nearly ran the car into the ditch trying to avoid the things when they come shooting out at the car. All I see is a flash of brown when that happens - happens so fast can't tell if its dogs or deer until after the fact.
> 
> ...



it wont be long before their dead anyway - shooting wont be an issue. :yikes: 

I'd hit them LONG before I put my truck or myself into a ditch.

ferg....


----------



## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

Ferg said:


> it wont be long before their dead anyway - shooting wont be an issue. :yikes:
> 
> I'd hit them LONG before I put my truck or myself into a ditch.
> 
> ferg....


I was thinking the same thing The only reason I haven't hit one yet is I alway think its a deer and my old man always tells me horror stories of deer hooves tearing you up if they get inside the car. Just instinct to try and avoid it I guess


----------



## Beave (Aug 26, 2002)

If your neighbor has unlicensed and unchained dogs you have to call the proper authorities. 

One of the "joys" of living on the edge of the suburbs in an area that's still pretty rural is all the idiots who don't think they need to chain their dogs. Where I live (and grew up) is still a pretty rural area, although that's changing quickly. Farms are being developed like crazy and there's an "outflux" of people moving into our area from Grand Rapids suburbs. Most have lived in suburban areas their entire lives and don't have a clue what the country is reallyl like. What cracks me up is that these people moved out to the country, but they want it to be just like the city. They complain about people riding snowmobiles and ATV's, they don't like neighbors shooting guns, they complain about the smell of manure from the farm down the road, etc. However, now that they own 2 acres in "the country" they suddenly think they don't have to chain their dog up anymore. It's a real problem when they're dumping your trash can over, getting into your garage, etc. Espeically when you own a couple of dogs in a kennel and get calls from the neighbors at 3 in the morning because your beagles are barking. The neighbors are pissed at you, they have no clue the dogs are barking because another neighbor's black lab is running around outside the kennel. All you can do is call the police or animal control. 

The other option is catching the dogs and taking them to the humane society, although I'm not sure how legal that is if you know for a fact who owns the dogs.


----------



## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

Beave

I think I have the opposite problem that you do. The area where our property is seems to have a lot of poverty. It's been my observation that these people up north have the dogs more or less for protection (ie barking to alert when someone is there) but they are too poor to pay for licenses. As a result, they let their dogs run around unchained and unlicensed their reasoning being that if the dog leaves, fine one less mouth to feed.
If it leaves and does some damage, then since it doesn't have a license it can't be traced back to them. They can just say "oh that's not my dog, it just came by here one day"


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

If they can't afford a license then I doubt that they can afford rabies shots in which case they are already in violation of the law on two counts, license and shots. Since this is a violation, if county animal control was notified, they should not have to much trouble showing that the dogs are not licensed. Then if its money, I doubt if they can afford the tickets either so animal control takes the dogs and they can maybe do some jail time for free. Counties get the monies from dog licenses and they should be taking care of complaints.

Hope about this section;

287.277 Identification and location of unlicensed dogs; public nuisance; list; commencement of proceedings; duties of sheriff; nonfeasance in office. 

Sec. 17. The county treasurer may, based on records of the dogs actually licensed in each city or township of the county and any report under section 16, identify and locate all unlicensed dogs. If a dog is required to be licensed under this act but is unlicensed, the dog is a public nuisance. The county treasurer shall immediately list all unlicensed dogs identified by this section and shall deliver copies of the list to the prosecuting attorney of the county and to the director of the department of agriculture. On receiving from the county treasurer the name of any owner of an unlicensed dog, the prosecuting attorney shall at once commence the necessary proceedings against the owner of the dog, as required by this act. The sheriff shall locate and kill, or cause to be killed, all such unlicensed dogs. Failure, refusal, or neglect on the part of a sheriff to carry out the provisions of this section constitutes nonfeasance in office.


----------



## Radar420 (Oct 7, 2004)

Thanks for your help boehr. I was just wondering what my options were.

I'm always concerned about notifying the authorities in our area because its such a tight knit community. If you tell one person, then the whole area knows. I wouldn't want to come to the cabin one time to find it was vandalized by the neighbor because he heard that we reported him. It wouldn't be that difficult for him either since we're not up there that often. It would be easier to explain his dog as "run away" if he asked

Plus, I'm not into making poor people poorer by having to pay court fees. But the law is the law, so next time I go up if I see the same unchained/uncollared dogs, I'll give AC a call and see what happens.

Again, thanks for the clarification


----------



## ih772 (Jan 28, 2003)

It been my experience with people who claim they are too poor to buy dog licenses and get them shots always seem to have money for beer, cigarettes, and pot. Someone saying they are too poor to properly take care of an animal is just a BS excuse.


----------



## KEN C (Oct 28, 2002)

I have had a terrible time with dogs this year. My neighbor just refuses to put a leash on her 2 black labs. The other neighbor who is a Veterinarian has a similar problem. I have told both of them repeatedly to please keep your dog on your own property. The lady with the black labs coped an attitude and told me she had given up on trying to keep them on her property. She acted like I was inconveniencing her. It has been very hard not to take matters into my own hands. All that said would animal control actually do anything about it. I am in Livingston County Cohoctah Twp.


----------



## Tecumseh (Aug 13, 2004)

Wonderful thread guys, very informative. I have been wondering if I needed to keep a separate collar with a dog license while in the field with my dog since his hunting and training collars do not have a drop ring for tags [they have info tags riveted on the collar itself]. I am glad that question has been answered and I don't need to as an extra collar with tags hanging could snag and cause the dog injury. Again, great post [from a dog guy]


----------



## Randy Kidd (Apr 21, 2001)

Radar420 said:


> I was thinking the same thing The only reason I haven't hit one yet is I alway think its a deer and my old man always tells me horror stories of deer hooves tearing you up if they get inside the car. Just instinct to try and avoid it I guess


Take it from a former paramedic of 25 years..Trying to avoid hitting a dog or deer or whatever has killed many, many more people than hitting one does. Do not swerve, Don't jam on the brakes although you should use them as hard as possible without locking up. and hit whatever it is square, maintain a straight line of travel until you brake to a stop..Sorry to get off topic, But in my career I have seen many of these type of accidents, and one where a woman tried to avoid hitting a squirrel swerved her car, jumped the curb and ran down an 11 year old girl riding her bike on the sidewalk, Killing her. Unless it is a bull Moose, Horse, or Cattle you are better off hitting them.


----------

