# Help finding English Setter Pup



## TRILEY (Jan 16, 2009)

Hello, Have been researching Setter pups quite a bit and am looking to buy one this spring to begin training for the replacement of my aging lab in the uplands here of northern Michigan. I want a friendly happy dog just as comfortable in the house as in the field. One with lots of drive and hunts close. Never trained a pointing dog before so the more natural instinct to point the better. Any help you folks can give me in my search wheather it be tips or kennels to look for it would be of huge help. I see a lot of southern kennels with dogs available but I want a dog coming from stock that has spent some time chasing grouse and woodcock, not just pheasants or quail. Does this make sense?

Thanks for all the help. You sure do have a nice forum here.

Take care.


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

TRILEY said:


> Hello, Have been researching Setter pups quite a bit and am looking to buy one this spring to begin training for the replacement of my aging lab in the uplands here of northern Michigan. I want a friendly happy dog just as comfortable in the house as in the field. One with lots of drive and hunts close. Never trained a pointing dog before so the more natural instinct to point the better. Any help you folks can give me in my search wheather it be tips or kennels to look for it would be of huge help. I see a lot of southern kennels with dogs available but I want a dog coming from stock that has spent some time chasing grouse and woodcock, not just pheasants or quail. Does this make sense?
> 
> Thanks for all the help. You sure do have a nice forum here.
> 
> Take care.


There is a guy on this forum who has one for sale in the classified section on this site. Looks like it already has a season under its belt.


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## critter trapper (Feb 9, 2004)

http://www.milrunfarm.com/


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## JAM (Mar 30, 2000)

A kennel to consider is Top Gun Kennel, Republic, MI (U.P.). Bob Ross has been raising and training setters for 40 yrs. He lives in the heart of grouse country. Take a look at his web site.

http://www.topgunkennels.com/Puppies.htm

~Jill


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## Fox (Nov 21, 2007)

critter trapper said:


> http://www.milrunfarm.com/


Yup, He has a litter right now that I'll be getting a male out of.


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## kek25 (Jul 9, 2005)

Take a look at Grouse Ridge Kennels at http://grouseridgesetters.com/breeding.php

Grouse Ridge Rudy whom you see as a stud for two of the current litters is a littermate to my "Roy" dog shown here:










My impressions: Excellent disposition, great nose, nice conformation, very biddable.

Pete and Katy Flanagan know what they are doing. Grouseridge has been around for a long time.


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

grouse ridge raises top quality grouse dogs and i've never heard anything but good about the Flanagans. actually there are a number of good kennels raising coverdogs, and for someone wanting a closer runnning dog, they may have a started dog that is not wide enough running for trials.

you might post this same message on the coverdog board.


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## milmo1 (Nov 9, 2005)

FWIW,
I have a youngster from "Induna" on this site. Another fella on here also has one of the pups from a litter a year ago. So far so good. Charlie came highly recommended. Might be worth a PM to see his schedule for another litter.
Good luck...shopping can be fun and a little nerve racking.


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## TRILEY (Jan 16, 2009)

Wow, you folks sure are full of info and help. Keep it coming. I am checking all the reccomended places now. Grouse Ridge had come up in my search before and I marked their information to contact. Looks like they have some nice dogs. I like the looks of the bigger setters for sure. Anyone here look or have a dog they can share info about from Setter's West. I have met one dog from their and she is a pretty good dog already at 2.

Thanks again for all the info.


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## midwestfisherman (Apr 19, 2001)

Shameless elf promotion... http://members4.boardhost.com/coverdogforsale/msg/1224889246.html


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

if you want a dog with very strong instincts and the liklihood of early development as well as style and endurance, i recommend a dog from grouse trial or other fdsb trial lines.

The Foster Award Site has a lot of information and several kennel websites are listed. i'm not good at posting urls but a google should find it easily. and guys will be advertising pups on the Coverdog Board pretty soon.

i'd recommend a started dog if you want a closer running dog as that way you see what you are getting. dogwoodbirddogs.com has one for sale. by a 2x champion.


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## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

dogwhistle said:


> if you want a dog with very strong instincts and the liklihood of early development as well as style and endurance, i recommend a dog from grouse trial or other fdsb trial lines.
> 
> The Foster Award Site has a lot of information and several kennel websites are listed. i'm not good at posting urls but a google should find it easily. and guys will be advertising pups on the Coverdog Board pretty soon.
> 
> i'd recommend a started dog if you want a closer running dog as that way you see what you are getting. dogwoodbirddogs.com has one for sale. by a 2x champion.


Try these:
http://www.fosteraward.com/Links.html
http://members4.boardhost.com/coverdogforsale/

While I was on the Foster Award site, I noticed that my pup Rocky's mama, Hi Five's Wrangler, is the high point coverdog in the country right now (even though she's just a pointer :evil.
http://www.fosteraward.com/Current_Standings.html


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## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

kek25 said:


> ..."Roy" dog shown here:
> ...
> My impressions: Excellent disposition, great nose, nice conformation, very biddable....


Keith, Roy is one outstanding-looking hunk of a bird dog!


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## kek25 (Jul 9, 2005)

FindTheBird said:


> Keith, Roy is one outstanding-looking hunk of a bird dog!


 
Thanks Mike. He has his moments. :lol: I am very happy with the Grouse Ridge breeding. Had a deposit on another pup out of the same cross, but it didn't happen. The female only had one pup. I think it may have been their last try with Reroy before he died.

Looking forward to hearing reports on your guy with Bruce.


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## Rooster_Smasher (Oct 18, 2003)

I have a breeding we are planing right now. It is out of two dogs with Hall of Fame backrounds. 

My female "Star" is in heat and ready to breed in a day or two. She has Tekoa Mountain Sunrise in her backround. Our male "Jake" has ReRoy in hs backround. 

Desire and Style are what these two are all about. My female Star has shown a unique ability to find Grouse at a very young age. 

If the breeding takes pups will be ready around the 2nd week in June.

I have not set up a seperate page yet on my web site, but they can be seen on the link below. Half way down the page is Star and then further down is Jake. 
http://wolfescreekshorthairs.homestead.com/About_Us.html


Good luck in your search and feel free to drop me a line if you have any questions. 

Rooster


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## Merimac (Jan 17, 2006)

check out 

http://trialdog.blogspot.com/

Go through the setter links.

I am partial to many of Kolters dogs of Northwood bird dogs. I may be wrong but I think he is going to do a frozen breeding from Chief. This would also be a good place to look.


Scott Berg might have a dog that fits your order. He will likely stumble on here soon.

Steve Snyder is doing a duel setter breeding in MN that should be a nice mix.


I think MWF and maybe Jonathan Fricke each have started dogs.


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## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

kek25 said:


> Thanks Mike. He has his moments. :lol: I am very happy with the Grouse Ridge breeding. Had a deposit on another pup out of the same cross, but it didn't happen. The female only had one pup. I think it may have been their last try with Reroy before he died.
> 
> Looking forward to hearing reports on your guy with Bruce.


Keith, I'm guessing that with a dog the caliber of Reroy, frozen semen pups will be available for some time, so you may have future opportunities for a pup.
Myself (and others) were very impressed with Rock's early development so I'm anxious to see how he turns out. Bruce mentioned the possibility of posting pictures and even video from AZ, I'll post them, or links to them here if Bruce's plan pans-out.


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## kek25 (Jul 9, 2005)

I'll keep an eye out for those links, Mike.


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## kek25 (Jul 9, 2005)

I grouse hunt with an offspring produced by one of the brother's of Rooster Smasher's "Star" dog. He is very impressive in the grouse woods!!! He is in the photo below; second dog from the right (black and white).

There are a lot of excellent suggestions provided to the thread starter which should end up producing a very nice dog for you if you follow up on them. Good luck!


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## Bobby (Dec 21, 2002)

All Michigan Kennels/breeders good guys with litters on the ground or expected soon.

http://www.pioneerkennels.com/dogs-for-sale.htm

http://www.dunrovenkennels.com/index.html

http://www.settersunlimited.com/kennel.aspx?a=5


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## Scott Berg (Feb 24, 2008)

Merimac said:


> check out
> 
> I am partial to many of Kolters dogs of Northwood bird dogs. I may be wrong but I think he is going to do a frozen breeding from Chief. This would also be a good place to look.
> 
> ...


Ben,

I was going to leave this one alone because anything experience I share will have an element of self-promotion but I am going to jump in here for two reasons. One, its an interesting topic for me because I once made the same assumption and on the surface its just seems to be common sense. Lets be clear the topic is NOT who is a good breeder. Triley stated _I see a lot of southern kennels with dogs available but I want a dog coming from stock that has spent some time chasing grouse and woodcock, not just pheasants or quail. Does this make sense? "_

Two, because this theory, especially among Setter fanciers, is being perpetuated more and more and it is disproven by every other breed and my own experiences in the woods over a very large number of Setters from a variety of bloodlines. We breeders are real promoters and I am no exception. This is driven by pride among breeders so its should be no surprise. My only problem with it is that it is blind faith for the vast majority. They have little or no experience breeding outside this subset of dogs so how do you know if they are superior. I acknowledge that I spout off a lot of opinions but they have formed with an opinion mind and experience breeding to wide variety of bloodlines over 30 years. I have bred to several cover dog studs and purchased many pups over the years. We continue to purchase 4-5 pups outside our kennel every year and breed to a couple outside stud dogs every year. I just bought one out of Hytest Skyhawk and an exceptional winning female and we also purchased two that were born about a week ago from Dave Terhaar out of TerHaars Rocko and a daughter of Long Gone Gorge and Long Gone Agnes. I am not saying this for promotional value. I am trying to point out that you have to make acquire and breed to a variety of dogs if you are going to make valid comparisons. Very few have done so. The point I am getting to is that my experience does not support the promoted theory.

I mentioned above other breeds to do support this theory. Cover Dog trials have had a miniscule effect on Pointer breeding. The Pointer guys think very differently and thats why their dogs are dominant in every game from NSTRA to AA Horseback. On average, Pointers are the best physical specimens and they have the best endurance, and the best style. They certainly give nothing up to Setters in cover dog trials or bird finding, yet cover dog trials have had very little impact on their breeding. The recent success of a couple cover dog pointers has had some influence. However, when you see the really top female Pointers like Hard Driving Bev, they get bred to top HB dogs. Joe McCarl bred Hard Driving bev to Front N Center, Center Piece, and Erins Tin Soldier. Bruce Minard bred to Sugarknoll Buckshot. All of them top horseback Champions.

Here are a few other random thoughts.

1) In any other breed there is no such thing as cover dog breeding. Are they inferior bird dogs?
2) I had several Red Setters that were phenomenal grouse dogs and I have sold a couple over the years to accomplished grouse trailers who would tell you that they were as good a grouse dog as they ever owned. Granted I evaluated all of those dogs in the woods before breeding them but their ancestors for several generations had probably never seen a grouse.
3) Grouse Ridge is arguably the most accomplished grouse trial kennel in history. They have bred to horseback dogs on a very consistent basis. Their dogs are as much HB as cover dog.
4) In the modern area one of the most influential dogs in cover dog breeding was First Rate who was a HB dog from HB ancestry. Lloyd Murray and Jerry Kolter both really like him as a stud and he produced Long Gone Agnes for Lloyd and Blue Chief for Jerry. Jerrys best female, Houstons Belle was out of a line bred Hamiltons Blue Diamond female. HBD was out of the hall of fame CH Hicks Rising Sun who was out of hall of fame Champion Tekoa Mountain Sunrise.
5) Sorry for the self-promoting tone of this one. I sold five pups that we started on liberated birds to grouse hunters this year that were cut from our evaluation program for one reason or another. They were all just 6-7 months old and none of them from tradition cover dog breeding. Of course, I explained to the new owners that they could not shoot birds the dogs did not handle properly. All of them were getting shooting opportunities after a couple weekends in the woods. Two of them had multiple opportunities on the second day with seven month old dogs. 
6) Attached are two photos of a pup I sold to Solon Rhode in Vermont. She is linebred Sunrise. The photo on the left is at six months point woodcock and the the photo on the right is 18 weeks old pointing a grouse.

My apologies for rambling on and I recognize completely that the bias of all this is the same as everyone else, to justify in my own mind what am doing but I would like to think we have been very open-minded in our evaluations over the years. I simply dont care where they come from and never have. If they can help the program theyre in, if not theyre out! 

Triley, if you are in Michigan, Dave Terhaar has two sisters available to the pups I just bought. They might be a little more dog than you are looking for but Dave may also have something else. Mr. Terhaar, in my opinion, is one of the very finest breeders in the country. Dave spends a great deal of time evaluating dogs on wild birds and there is one way a bitch gets bred in Daves kennel. It must be an absolutely superior bird dog. 

I believe the answer to Rileys question is that maximizing your odds of getting a dog skilled at handling birds is to look to breeding programs that practice a high degree of selection. This has been practiced in a more fundament fashion by Pointer breeders in my opinion. However, breeders like Mr. Terhaars are disciplined enough to evaluate several females and only by breed the truly exceptional individuals. 
Bob Wehle and others have proven this theory but very few people are willing to cut good and even very good dogs and breed only the very best individuals.

SRB


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## slammer (Feb 21, 2006)

SRB,

If you believe in what you are doing and have documented succuess to back it up there is nothing wrong with promoting your product.


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## slammer (Feb 21, 2006)

I have a pup out of Long Gone kennel and really like her. She has a ton of nose and point and is very animated. Most of these guys mentioned will be able to give you what you are looking for... I would really look for proven parents though, nothing less than a champion stud and a female with placements or at the very least a blue ribbon bloodline with big dogs no more than a line back in the pedigree.


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## kek25 (Jul 9, 2005)

A lot of what you say has merit, Scott. But I have seen a significant number of non "Cover Dog" bred dogs brought to the grouse woods that refuse to bust the cover. Call it cover shy, weak to cover, or what have you. 

If I were a first time setter buyer from Michigan looking for a dog to hunt grouse and woodcock I would stick to the proven, traditional "cover dog" producing lines.


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## [email protected] (Jan 10, 2006)

kek,
A lot of this can be a nature vs nurture issue IMO, if you take a puppy from any line and bring him up hunting in cover, he will most likely hunt the cover if as a pup he is finding and having birds killed over him in the cover. If you wait until he is 3 before he sees the woods then he might be a brush sissy. I wouldn't base it on one two experiences, on the flip side I have seen plenty of dogs that are "grouse" bred and would consider them brush sissy's as well. A good dog will do what you ask it to, I think we are being overly generous with breeding as a whole to think we completely changed what a dog is over a 10-15 year period, look what many of these dogs have in there pedigrees further back, it has a little bit of everything. The above breeders mentioned all have nice dogs and reputations. Good luck on your search


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## kek25 (Jul 9, 2005)

JFG:

I understand what Scott was saying. If you look back far enough in a lot of Cover Dog pedigrees you will see AA or Horseback stuff. 

I don't want to steer this thread into the old debate about what AA/horseback lines have or have not contributed to the Cover Dog lines, because a significant amount of information on that can be found by doing searches on any number of these boards.

But I think the original reservation that the thread starter had concerning lines of dogs is reasonable - - especially for someone looking to buy their first setter for the grouse woods. I can't believe that it would be suggested with any seriousness he should look at a pup from, say, Hytest Skyhawk bred to a bitch from similar lines, for instance. Or for him to head down south and pick up a pup from horseback lines and bring it back to Michigan as his first grouse setter. That's not the place to start. That's the type of play that should be left to guys like Scott for introduction into their programs. Once that blood is introduced and proven to work in the woods then I say, by all means promote it.

I talk to a number of horseback guys out east and down south. I'm not speaking of weak to cover dogs based on 1 or 2 experiences. Whether you believe it or not, there are, indeed, lines that just don't work in the woods. A lot of guys would like to get their dogs into the woods up here, but it isn't happening. Why?? There are guys like you out there who feel these dogs should be able to compete in the woods, but apparently don't want to "stick your necks out." No disrespect intended, but if there are those out there who feel these dogs can compete in the woods I don't understand why those same people aren't bringing those dogs to the Cover Dog trials and proving the point.

Even in the "Cover Dog" lines, as you mentioned, there are a number of breedings that end up being disappointments due to the breeding, not the nature vs. nurture issue. That's why the all important evaluation process that Scott often speaks of occurs. A significant number of dogs are cut loose because they run the path or run a line or can't be patterned or won't hit the objectives? Has nothing to do with nature vs. nurture. Many are cut on the premise that "they don't run big enough" (wink wink). 

Nevertheless, I would wager that someone looking for their first setter to run grouse and woodcock has a better chance of getting a dog that will satisfy their needs by staying with the traditional lines vs. going directly to the AA or horseback stuff for their first dog. I think the thread starter's thought process on that issue safeguards him from a significant disappointment by ending up with a dog he won't be able to handle or won't do what he needs it to do.

Tekoa Mountain Sunrise (Hick's Rising Son, Hamilton Blue Diamond) blood is always the stuff that's pointed to which does seem to work (although some would not agree) in the woods.

I see some outcrossing going on out there with some other stuff by some of the breeders, but not a lot. 

I'm very interested in hearing from Scott how that Hytest Skyhawk pup progresses and whether it makes the transition to the woods. I hope it does.


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## Scott Berg (Feb 24, 2008)

kek25 said:


> JFG:
> 
> I understand what Scott was saying. If you look back far enough in a lot of Cover Dog pedigrees you will see AA or Horseback stuff.
> 
> ...


KEK,

You make a very good point here regarding a first timer buying a dog from AA breeding . The same would be true of a first timer buying a dog from a cover dog CH and winning cover dog female. Many people who have not seen a grouse trial would be pretty shocked how big those dogs run in the woods. 


We call the Skyhawk daughter Susie. We will let you know how she does next fall.
I do have another daughter of Skyhawk from one of his first litters. Her dam is a littermate sister to CH Stone Tavern Matrix. From those two you would expect a big going dog. She is not a boot polisher but she is not a field trial dog either. I love her as a hunting dog. She is a fantastic bird dog and she actually is at her very best in the woods. The first time I put her in the woods she was already about 10 months old. We had been to the prairie twice and she had started to get a few sharptail and Huns pointed. She pointed and held three grouse her first hour in the woods. Over the course of the season she developed a great pattern in the woods and handled really nicely. She is almost three now and has opened up a little more on the prairie. She was also one of the easiest dogs I have ever broke. She was dead broke with no pressure at 14 months. All I ever did was say whoa when the birds flushed. Sorry for braggin on Maggie but I really love that dog. She is a character. Her photo at 9 months old is below.

SRB










Berg Brothers Prairie Hawk


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## milrun (Jan 17, 2006)

kek25 said:


> A lot of what you say has merit, Scott. But I have seen a significant number of non "Cover Dog" bred dogs brought to the grouse woods that refuse to bust the cover. Call it cover shy, weak to cover, or what have you.
> 
> If I were a first time setter buyer from Michigan looking for a dog to hunt grouse and woodcock I would stick to the proven, traditional "cover dog" producing lines.


kek25, I guess Iam missing something hear. You call them cover dogs I call them bird dogs.You know if the line been proven no matter what pointing bred [pointing birds] all kinds if trained correctly they can do it all. You know what I have done with my setters and you people think cover dogs are a whole new breed ,they are English Setters, Britteny, English pointers, GSP, they are bird dogs, It is all how you train your dogs. Nick Miller


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## UP JACK (Apr 12, 2005)

Good post Scott Berg! Enjoyed it thanks-


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## Worm Dunker (Sep 11, 2000)

Triley I'm on my fifth setter now. Four of them I bought as pups and one was a two year old rescue dog. They all have been great hunting dogs except the one I sent to a pro trainer that used a heavy hand on her. My first and last setters are both from DunRoven Setters. Hunter my newest setter is a direct son of 6X Ch. 2X R.U ShadyHills Billy. Billy is a two time Mi. Woodcock Ch. There are at least three other M-S members here with Billy pups. I just put down my oldest setter (15years old) and if the wife would allow me another dog it would be another ShadyHills Billy pup but a female this time.








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Hunter will be 2 years old the end of the month if you notice all he wears is a bell. Good luck.


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## Merimac (Jan 17, 2006)

Scott who owned first rate?

Ben


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## kek25 (Jul 9, 2005)

Scott:

Maggie is a nice looking girl! Her Momma's blood goes back to Rocket and Grouse Ridge Hank.

I trust you were expecting a bigger running dog when you originally got her.


Who is Suzie's dam?


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## Scott Berg (Feb 24, 2008)

Merimac said:


> Scott who owned first rate?
> 
> Ben


Tom Tracy, at least that's who I sent the stud fee. I bred to First Rate twice but I don't even remember talking to Tom. A friend of mine who lived near him took the dogs up there to be breed. I don't think Tom was a pro so it must have been his dog.

SRB


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## Scott Berg (Feb 24, 2008)

kek25 said:


> Scott:
> 
> Maggie is a nice looking girl! Her Momma's blood goes back to Rocket and Grouse Ridge Hank.
> 
> ...


I can't really say we ever ever expect a prospect is going to run like their winning parents. A whole lot more of them don't run like trials dogs then do. Run is not a top criteria for us. We breed and buy dogs from this type of breeding becuase of the other attributes they possess. The ones that run we trial and the ones that don't that have everything else we are looking for are bred looking to produce gun dogs. Of course, we chose the stud dog accordingly. 

Suzie's dam is Erin's Skydancer is owned by Sean Derrig. Yes, Sean actually has a Setter. Sean now has over 100 CH/RU CHs with pointers so I guess he needed a new challenge. I had heard she might be for sale so I called Sean. He said he had no intention of selling her but we talked about the dog for awhile. He was really pumped about what a great bird dog she was and he said at the time he was going to eventually breed her to Skyhawk. It wa s a huge litter. I thing there were 4 males and 8 females. Sean was only interested in keeping males so i jumped in and was able to pick right behind Jack Elliott when he took his stud fee pup. He bought an extra one too.

SRB


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## kek25 (Jul 9, 2005)

Scott:

When you start working Suzie can you post up some photos? Thanks.


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## Little Slugger (Apr 14, 2008)

Worm Dunker said:


> .......all have been great hunting dogs except the one I sent to a pro trainer that used a heavy hand on her. .


 
WD, for years you have busted the gonads of this pro trainer that "ruined" your dog. On this board and the Coverdog Board you even dissed dogs in your dogs pedigree, claiming they threw "retarded" dogs. Cut it out, you know what happened and this pro trainer didn't do it and it wasn't the breeding.


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## slammer (Feb 21, 2006)

milrun said:


> kek25, I guess Iam missing something hear. You call them cover dogs I call them bird dogs.You know if the line been proven no matter what pointing bred [pointing birds] all kinds if trained correctly they can do it all. You know what I have done with my setters and you people think cover dogs are a whole new breed ,they are English Setters, Britteny, English pointers, GSP, they are bird dogs, It is all how you train your dogs. Nick Miller


Nick,

From an outsiders point of view it seems to me what you have excelled at is proving your dogs, which seem to be primarily from walking trial lines, in the various walking venues whether it be cover dog, NSTRA, or US Complete, etc.
I tend to agree with the notion that AA horseback dogs are far less likely to make a foot hunter happy than a dog out of your kennel would.
Of couse this is coming from a guy that has been searching for the perfect dog for the past 15 years and still can't get one just like the first one I had.


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

i've seen that quote argued, sometimes vehemently before. but, as far as i know, the grouse trials are all setters and pointers- champions. except for one recent brittany and no continental breeds.

dog trialers sometimes have a "one size fits" all attitude, but that doesnt seem to be the case in performance animals. if you want a winning cutting horse, you need to start with champion cutting horse breeding. on the other hand, if you want to win the breeders cup, you need a horse out of winning thoroughbred bloodlines.

over time, the competion should shape the strain of animals selected for that competetion. a variation of darwins selection of the species. certain traits help an animal to win, the winners have those traits and they are bred into their offspring.

it's not a hard and fast rule. you can see miller breeding in coverdog pointers. but that's because the breeder is trying to add a trait of traits, probably some range, endurance and maybe speed. that's just sound selective breeding. olympic horses, worth hundreds of thousands of $ are often a combination of TB and european warmbloods. but you wouldnt try to put one of those warmbloods on the track at churchill downs.

there is a lot more to it than just training. inherited traits count heavily into the mix.


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## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

dogwhistle said:


> ...there is a lot more to it than just training. inherited traits count heavily into the mix.


I like Wehle's term "genetically trained", meaning that the dog automatically displays desired behaviour at a tender age with little or no formal "training".


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## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

kek25 said:


> I'll keep an eye out for those links, Mike.


No links, yet but I spoke to Bruce last night: he says Rock was doing the best out of the Wrangler pups, but unfortunately he hurt his tail early in the trip and has been laid-up, and will be until around mid-week or until it improves. 
Hoping it's just a bad case of limber tail and not a fracture.


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