# Jay's fur sale results, 12/21/13



## trappergirl95 (Aug 27, 2013)

The moment you've all been waiting for... 










Thanks for everyone who volunteered and for another successful sale!

Emily Caretti


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Thank you Emily.

Prices look pretty good in light of all the concern. Hope they hold!


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## legard29 (Nov 7, 2005)

So much for the crash, looks
pretty good

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## furandhides (Jul 3, 2008)

legard29 said:


> So much for the crash, looks
> pretty good
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


 Read the market updates put out by FHA on 12/23, and the report put out today by NAFA. They appear as an alarm for a market correction?


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## magnumhntr (Aug 18, 2003)

No offense Roger, but I keep seeing all these buyers yapping about market correction, yet the Clare sale last weekend had averages nearly in line with the same sale in 2012. I will believe a 'correction' or 'crash' when the chinese buyers show up and don't buy... my understanding is that they aren't buying right now for fear of prosecution/persecution by their government ~ so the market is in limbo because of lack of buyers... not necessarily lack of demand for fur...

My opinion is that local buyers/Groenwold are using it as an excuse to expand their margins when reality is that once the Chinese get things figured out prices will return to or exceed the spring sales...

-Chris


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## Dave Lyons (Jun 28, 2002)

I would like to know which buyers were buying and which ones stood idle. If Roger was idle could speak were the market is at, I dont have to agree with Roger but he is a buyer to watch. When your fur is all sold thats the true market on your fur.

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## furandhides (Jul 3, 2008)

Chris, just pointing out the two bulletins put out by the auction houses. Did you read them both? Tell me your interpretation. And Dave, I didn't buy at Clare. I actually had set 30,000 set aside for purchases at the sale, came home with a full purse. Roger


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## furandhides (Jul 3, 2008)

Go to Groenewold Fur & Wool, scroll down to their fur market report. Numerous post in the past 24 hours. Interesting. Merry Christmas??


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## magnumhntr (Aug 18, 2003)

furandhides said:


> Chris, just pointing out the two bulletins put out by the auction houses. Did you read them both? Tell me your interpretation. And Dave, I didn't buy at Clare. I actually had set 30,000 set aside for purchases at the sale, came home with a full purse. Roger


My interpretation is that no one has a clue right now, and are basing all of their reports on speculation ~ not a single wild item has hit the auction block yet ~ so no one knows what anything is worth currently. With that being said I don't blame anyone for not buying fur for a premium right now as it is possible they could loss their tail over it. But for large buyers such as Groeny who have cold storage to help weather this, I think he is using this to increase his margin more than what he normally has them set at. If the Chinese aren't buying for fear of repercussion by their government it doesn't mean there isn't demand for our fur. I think that once they get things sorted out the Chinese will run the prices back up to current levels ~ of which I also think the big players know this...

Again this is my opinion based on nothing more than the information out there and watching certain buyers work the market to their advantage. Short term I think we won't see May 2012 prices, but long term I think it will rebound as the demand is there ~ just scared buyers right now...

-Chris


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## furandhides (Jul 3, 2008)

Uncertainty. Not good in any type of market involving any item. Too many "what ifs". This is certainly going to be an interesting ride. For those who have already liquidated, I think that you did well. For the rest of us, the story remains to be told. Like Dave said, it ain't over till your stuffs been sold.


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## David G Duncan (Mar 26, 2000)

Hi Roger,

Thank you for your sage overview of the fur market. You have the experience to back you up. 

I especially thank you for being fair and open with your understanding of both sides of the equation, as an individual who knows trapping and fur marketing.

I still remember back in the 70's when Mr. Silverman a major fur buyer out of New York came to Jackson Michigan to attend on of our Trapper Association Fur Auction. He was all dressed up in a suit and long black wool overcoat. Back then I believe most of our wild furs pasted through New York on there way to foreign markets.

He wanted to see the front lines of the fur market where local fur buyer interacted with the trapper. Typically at our auctions during the breakers in the auction the buyers all gone on the phone to their fur houses in New York to get their orders on how to bid. It is an amazing process even back then and I imagine it is even more amazing in this era of instant communications.

Well, at least today the comment "The ship just sailed out of New York and the price of furs just dropped" may not be as relevant.

The word back then was to always sell your mink before Christmas.

Merry Christmas and Good Luck.

Dave


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## magnumhntr (Aug 18, 2003)

Roger,

NAFA posted another release yesterday that pertains to this discussion.

http://www.nafa.ca/13371

I think they covered the current issues well... it isn't a matter of demand, more so a matter of getting the furs into China (without the buyers getting arrested, :lol: ). More specifically:

"You may be hearing the doom and gloom stories being circulated by certain fur buyers. These are being used to try and buy your skins now, at heavily discounted prices. It is their prerogative  after all we believe in freedom of speech. Here at NAFA, as in previous years, we have sold and paid out 100% of all the skins we received last year, so our track record speaks for itself. We are confident in the market and we believe our clearances will be excellent again this year."

Also pointed out is that ranch mink are heavily dependent upon China as they are the largest user, where as the trim trade ( ie **** and Coyote ) isn't nearly so. 

So what is your take on yesterday's release? Personally I feel it validates my opinion that the market is not 'crashing', and that buyers such as Groeny are using this 'uncertainty' as a means of convincing people their fur has lost its value to increase his margins...

What say you?

-Chris


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## furandhides (Jul 3, 2008)

magnumhntr said:


> Roger,
> 
> NAFA posted another release yesterday that pertains to this discussion.
> 
> ...


 I say that I don't care what they say. Their first sale takes place when our sales are over, and season is coming to an end. If I waited till they had a sale to buy my fur, I wouldn't be in business. I can't deal in the future. I spent 10 grand yesterday, and I've got several trappers coming in TODAY. SAVVY?? Send your stuff there and see what you get, it's your decision. My order was first of year, and ITS HERE. For me, most of the season is already a done deal. Roger


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## magnumhntr (Aug 18, 2003)

Actually I am going to send mine through the state auction and see how I do. Will most likely sell as long as they are close to what I consider them worth and I would rather see MTPCA make a bit off it for their coffers... I like having the option to no sale if I want ~ don't get that at NAFA or FHA.

But I do find it ironic that you pointed out the reports from Groney, NAFA, and FHA "as an alarm for a market correction?" yet NAFA puts out a statement calling someone(s) out and now "you don't care what they say" :lol:

In the end I guess it will all come out in the wash here in a few weeks. The FHA sale next weekend and NAFA in January will set the tone for the current market. I do know that I would not want to be a fur buyer the way things are shaking out currently... so I do respect and appreciate buyers such as yourself for what you offer/do for trappers... I just don't care for those who try and take advantage of people who don't know better...

Hope you have a Happy New Year!

-Chris


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## furandhides (Jul 3, 2008)

magnumhntr said:


> Actually I am going to send mine through the state auction and see how I do. Will most likely sell as long as they are close to what I consider them worth and I would rather see MTPCA make a bit off it for their coffers... I like having the option to no sale if I want ~ don't get that at NAFA or FHA.
> 
> But I do find it ironic that you pointed out the reports from Groney, NAFA, and FHA "as an alarm for a market correction?" yet NAFA puts out a statement calling someone(s) out and now "you don't care what they say" :lol:
> 
> ...


 Well we're certainly not the ones trying to take advantage of anyone. The guys know what I'm paying before they come to the stops. So they are coming and selling of their own free will. Roger


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## Dave Lyons (Jun 28, 2002)

When you sell locally either to Roger or a state auction. You can pull your fur and no sale, when you ship you dont have that option.

My opinion if you sell locally or state auctions. You will avg. close to shipping. But everyone likes to say I got 20-50 bucks for a 'rat. Now again my opinion the long furred animals ( coyote, fox) your better to ship your looking for the grade. I personally have had coyotes grade central more then grade eastern. I will take that central grade.

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