# Snagging Question



## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

BigWoods Bob said:


> What about Bowfishing?? Pretty much fits right in with everything you listed. How come no one gripes about all the Carp/Gar/Bowfin, etc. That are killed and burried and burried in the garden just for "Sport"????...at least the snaggers mostly eat what they catch (now that they can't sell the eggs anyway)
> 
> I'm not Pro-snagging or anti-Bowfishing. ...just throwing something out there to think about.


C'mon Bob. All hail the Brown Trout! In reality Bob, there is no difference, well except how pretty they look. If the sucker had the Brook Trouts colors, there would be ideologues worshiping them.

I know there was a CO that went swimming off the Whitehall pier.


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## wildcoy73 (Mar 2, 2004)

To me its still a life. I was brought up to kill for to reason. One is to feed your self and family, the other is to protect life that is in danger. Your statement is so off on goundhogs and carp not having value. What if it was you that people gave no value to?


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## FishMichv2 (Oct 18, 2004)

wildcoy73 said:


> To me its still a life. I was brought up to kill for to reason. One is to feed your self and family, the other is to protect life that is in danger. Your statement is so off on goundhogs and carp not having value. What if it was you that people gave no value to?


im not saying i dont give them value. and im not saying they dont have value, just not as much as others. ive been called a tree hugger on this site in the past. i wouldnt snag a carp any sooner than i would snag a salmon. one does however carry more value than another and it cant be argued otherwise. a bald eagle has more value than a goose. ive hit a bobcat with my car and ive hit groundhogs with my car and i can tell you that i felt really bad when i hit the bobcat and only briefly bad for the groundhog.

also an argument can be made that the salmon carries more of an economic value than a carp.


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Ranger Ray said:


> I know there was a CO that went swimming off the Whitehall pier.



Come on. You gotta share that story.


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## laterilus (Mar 18, 2006)




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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

I have no problem with anyone who uses a dark, mush meat river king solely for fertilizer. If it's a hen; pump them eggs, and grow that grass.


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## BigWoods Bob (Mar 15, 2007)

Ranger Ray said:


> C'mon Bob..


Just stirrin' the pot Ray....just stirrin' the pot!


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## Rasputin (Jan 13, 2009)

wildcoy73 said:


> To me its still a life. I was brought up to kill for to reason. One is to feed your self and family, the other is to protect life that is in danger. Your statement is so off on goundhogs and carp not having value. What if it was you that people gave no value to?


What about ants and cockroaches and mice and rays?


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## tmilldrummer (Feb 7, 2012)

I wondered when someone would mention bowfishing... I'd love the idea of one salmon per day limit with my bow. I enjoy shooting my groceries and that includes gar. Less chance of fighting the salmon enough to wear it to death right before it snaps you off on a log and floats away wasted. With an arrow through it and 200 lb test there's a good chance you will be eating it and there won't be gobs of line and hooks lying around. And don't say that bowfisherman are slobs, I can attest we are not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jd_speed (Jul 22, 2014)

I grew up hearing a lot of stories about snagging salmon but it was a little different. All the aunts/uncles/ grandparents snagged. They would take the fish home and can or smoke them and it was something that they counted on to feed their families. This along with venison,big gardens and small game is how they survived. I heard a lot of stories about dipping smelt too. Maybe I was too young to hear the stories about all the drunks and fights or maybe because grandpa was a decon in the Baptist church he didn't think it was worth telling. At any rate I'm glad that times have changed and I don't rely on salmon to feed my kids because they would starve with the luck I have. My experience on the river has shown me that a lot of snaggers are aholes.....but I was raised by some that weren't.


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## Jimbos (Nov 21, 2000)

jd_speed said:


> I grew up hearing a lot of stories about snagging salmon but it was a little different. All the aunts/uncles/ grandparents snagged. They would take the fish home and can or smoke them and it was something that they counted on to feed their families. This along with venison,big gardens and small game is how they survived. I heard a lot of stories about dipping smelt too. Maybe I was too young to hear the stories about all the drunks and fights or maybe because grandpa was a decon in the Baptist church he didn't think it was worth telling. At any rate I'm glad that times have changed and I don't rely on salmon to feed my kids because they would starve with the luck I have. My experience on the river has shown me that a lot of snaggers are aholes.....but I was raised by some that weren't.


Everything starts off decent, then the aholes take over.


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## JimP (Feb 8, 2002)

Robert Holmes said:


> When I was younger one of the Conservation Officers was thrown off from a bridge and suffered a broken leg. The river probably had enough line in it to circle the earth a couple of times. Back then you could sell the eggs for $3.00 a pound and the river was littered with gutted salmon. I saw a fight over a salmon and one guy got shot with a 22 in the leg. One of the doctors at the hospital would save the snag hooks he cut out of people. Every year he had 2 five gallon buckets full. Just like the wild wild west.


Ah the stories of market "fishing" back then, when snagging was legal..
The best guys out there never created a mess or wasted anything.
Although selling fish without a commercial license was still illegal.

One old gent "Dirty Frank" had crews of 4-5 guys, many of them laid off teachers working for him.
They mostly worked the Boardman behind the apartments in town, and sometimes they followed the fish all around the mitten...they had extensive maps and knowledge of out of the way accesses to good holes. 

They started around 3am til 6am or so.
Guys stacked 5 fish under designated shrubs, maybe 20-25 spots.
Easy 100 fish per night.
He paid them $5 a fish, male or female...
Females had to be "plugged", anus closed with an alligator clip or short hooked stick.

He had an old Edison truck with the enclosed tool box sides, inside were 5-6 steel drums.
Before daylight he'd gather all the stashed fish and head home.

All that morning he and the family salvaged the eggs AND the sperm sacs, fileted the fish, wrapped and froze them in a walk in freezer...

Yes, each day he got 3-4, 5 gallon pails of eggs, stored them in store size pop coolers in his pole barn, sold them for $3 a pound.

The frozen fillets were picked up twice a week by a couple guys who sold them at the Rouge plant for $7-$9 a package...or they went to smoke houses in Hamtramck for 50 cents a pound, they split the money with him.

On the trip up they brought hundreds of pounds of scrap wheel weights and other lead that he melted into spiders for his crews...

The heads and offal went to bear bait.


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

jimp said:


> One old gent "Dirty Frank" had crews of 4-5 guys, many of them laid off teachers working for him.
> They mostly worked the Boardman behind the apartments in town, and sometimes they followed the fish all around the mitten...they had extensive maps and knowledge of out of the way accesses to good holes.


Funny - we knew a teacher named Joe that normally fished a bit south of there, but I know he fished up by TC occasionally. He seemed to have an inside line on a bunch of honey holes and fished a lot at night with his "Polish fly rod", lol. 

I don't think it was so much laid off as being out on summer break. 

I'll never forget one hot August afternoon probably 30 years ago now. Joe pulled up next to us in his Oldsmobile Toronado as we were setting up to head out for some pier fishing. "Hey boys, come over here and take a look at this" he said. My older brother and I walked over as Joe popped the trunk on his car. He had about a dozen dark kings in the trunk... no cooler, no ice, no bag or anything... just a bunch of kangs laying in the trunk along with a spare tire and whatever else happened to be in there. I still scratch my head over that... The car was his daily driver and not really a beater


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

Rasputin said:


> What about ants and cockroaches and mice and *rays*?


Hey now! :lol: They have value. If you had brook trout infesting your house, I am sure you would want them gone. :lol: A bunch of rays infesting your house, now that's downright scary.


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## Rasputin (Jan 13, 2009)

Ranger Ray said:


> Hey now! :lol: They have value. If you had brook trout infesting your house, I am sure you would want them gone. :lol: A bunch of rays infesting your house, now that's downright scary.


I have to get better at proofing that darn auto correct. Should have been "rats". 

On the other hand, if you let the rats go and let them grow, we could be a destination state for rat Hunters. Who knows what kind of trophy rat tails we could produce?


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## MERGANZER (Aug 24, 2006)

People don't like snagging because it is illegal. If it were legal the rivers would be lined with people. If it was legal I know a few places where I would hit when the fresh ones come up. I also would love a bowfishing aspect to salmon. That would be fun!!!

Ganzer


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## tom01mxz800 (Aug 2, 2006)

MERGANZER said:


> People don't like snagging because it is illegal. If it were legal the rivers would be lined with people. If it was legal I know a few places where I would hit when the fresh ones come up. I also would love a bowfishing aspect to salmon. That would be fun!!!
> 
> Ganzer


Snagging is illegal yet the rivers are lined with people snagging I guess you haven't been fishing in a while honestly what's the difference between snagging and bowfishing salmon? Just like making guns illegal there will always be people that find a way around it there's no point in getting worked up about it it's going to happen it has always happened and it will continue to happen every year this forum is littered with discussions about it but just like the new law changes there will be ways around it it will never stop 90 percent of the people that fish the rivers snag I'm not really sure how to stop it but I'm sick of catching fish with hooks stuck all over their bodies


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## Fowlersduckhunter (Oct 28, 2011)

tom01mxz800 said:


> I'm sick of catching fish with hooks stuck all over their bodies


Just another way to fill that tacklebox! 

In all honesty, I know how you feel. I caught a king in Canada in the rapids 3 years ago, me and a buddy each got 3 cleos off of it. We usually come back with a few lures from each creek/river we visit either from finding them on the bottom or on snags, or pulling them off of dead fish.


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## Duckiller (Mar 26, 2010)

I have foul hooked fish, I am sure everyone has but I wasn't snagging and I released a very nice lake trout that was in the Boardman river that I foul hooked.
Early someone mentioned how toxic lead is. Lead doesn't desolve in rivers. Fish don't eat 2-3 ounce sinkers. Lead is not nearly as toxic as tree huggers make it out to be.


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## FishnBurn (Apr 24, 2012)

For all those defending snagging and how much fun it is, it's still legal for salmon in Alaska. Throw in on a bus with the out of state snaggers and you can go up there together and have the time of your life sharing beers and hepatitis. 

From what I've seen snaggers are a certain type of person. Loud, sloppy, ignorant, poorly bred. I say make it legal on a small stretch of stream and let them congregate there. Charge 50 bucks for a snagging tag and use the money to clean up that section of river. That way I don't have to deal with some idiot ripping 2 oz of split shot and a grappling hook through the run I'm drifting.


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

I'm not sure why this debate still rages. Snagging *gamefish* in MI is illegal, but snagging isn't actually illegal. You can still snag big fat fish that pull hard. You just have to do everyone a favor, and target CARP! That's right, you CAN snag "junk" fish in MI. Carp, Suckers, etc. And they are probably just as good to eat as the fish I see snaggers keep at Tippy dam.


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## Crazy Axe (Mar 11, 2007)

324.48727 Snagging of fish illegal on and after October 26, 1993; management of fisheries on Pere Marquette river.

Sec. 48727.

(1) On and after October 26, 1993, the snagging of fish is illegal in this state.

(2) The department shall manage fisheries on the Pere Marquette river at or above the site of the lamprey blocking weir.


History: Add. 1995, Act 57, Imd. Eff. May 24, 1995
Popular Name: Act 451
Popular Name: NREPA


http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(qa....aspx?page=getobject&objectname=mcl-324-48727


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## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Crazy Axe said:


> 324.48727 Snagging of fish illegal on and after October 26, 1993; management of fisheries on Pere Marquette river.
> 
> Sec. 48727.
> 
> ...



I stand corrected. I guess you have to shoot them with arrows instead.


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## Abel (Feb 14, 2003)

FishnBurn said:


> For all those defending snagging and how much fun it is, it's still legal for salmon in Alaska. Throw in on a bus with the out of state snaggers and you can go up there together and have the time of your life sharing beers and hepatitis.
> 
> From what I've seen snaggers are a certain type of person. Loud, sloppy, ignorant, poorly bred. I say make it legal on a small stretch of stream and let them congregate there. Charge 50 bucks for a snagging tag and use the money to clean up that section of river. That way I don't have to deal with some idiot ripping 2 oz of split shot and a grappling hook through the run I'm drifting.


Legal in the saltwaters, and even then, they restrict it from lots of areas where spawning fish return, especially native/natural fish. Certain hatchery return areas/terminal fisheries snagging is allowed, but mostly it's open ocean only.


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

Been to Alaska three times...was illegal every time I went.


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## MIfishslayer91 (Dec 24, 2013)

When I started salmon fishing I was taught to snag. Taught by the same men that got me into the habit of taking a bag with me everytime I go hunt just to pick up others trash, and to NEVER kill anything I won't eat. I stopped fishing with trebles and sinkers years ago when I realized how much cheaper it is to "floss" (not snag lol) with flies, or "float" spawn into a school of a few hundred salmon with there mouths open and make it look like they bit every single time. Believe me it's alot easier feeling a salmon bump into whatever your force feeding tool is with a longer sensitive rod than one of those broomsticks. Anyways those heavy lead grabbers spook fish hittin the water. Fly fisherman have mastered te art of snagging legitly.


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## Abel (Feb 14, 2003)

2PawsRiver said:


> Been to Alaska three times...was illegal every time I went.


Illegal in all freshwaters. But these guys are learning how to lift without snagging fish, some of these guys are using circle hooks now with great results on reds.


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## rogs13 (Aug 20, 2012)

MIfishslayer91 I was taught the same but changed as I learned, always brought a bag for any trash I found. I do take some offense when people say its people from out of state and I am one of those people, but am buying some retirement property in the NW. Now I have met, talked to and seen plenty of people from MI do the snagging also and they say the same thing about how they were taught and they eat what they catch. And then there are a few that I have run into at 4 in the morning coming from places they should not have been with 55 gallon drums cut in half and tails hanging out. When the run is on its easier to stay away from the crowds and hit the piers and areas less known.


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## FishMichv2 (Oct 18, 2004)

MIfishslayer91 said:


> When I started salmon fishing I was taught to snag. Taught by the same men that got me into the habit of taking a bag with me everytime I go hunt just to pick up others trash, and to NEVER kill anything I won't eat. I stopped fishing with trebles and sinkers years ago when I realized how much cheaper it is to "floss" (not snag lol) with flies, or "float" spawn into a school of a few hundred salmon with there mouths open and make it look like they bit every single time. Believe me it's alot easier feeling a salmon bump into whatever your force feeding tool is with a longer sensitive rod than one of those broomsticks. Anyways those heavy lead grabbers spook fish hittin the water. Fly fisherman have mastered te art of snagging legitly.


cant tell if you are serious or not so i thought id post this here. clearly you are doing it wrong if you think salmon dont bite. plenty of salmon do get flossed but they will bite well into the fall. i got a couple of real ******* on plugs and streamers this past week.


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## friZZleFry419 (Aug 21, 2007)

Black zombies bite out of aggression ...not hunger?


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## chlong (Oct 14, 2014)

mvgarrisi88 said:


> What was the result from snagging that made it necessary to outlaw it? I get some of the obvious things but wonder what other people think. Does it really make a difference in population, spawning, etc...?
> 
> Please respond to this as if you were my friend and you wanted to convince me that snagging is wrong and not just because it is the law.


Hey their mvgarrisi88, My great grandfather and grandfather along with my dad were all able to fish up at tippy and other locations for the salmon while snagging was legal. Because of this I will answer this as if you were a friend, and as my friends know, i say it as i see it. Im a very opinionated person but only because my opinions are easily backed.

So anyway most of the time they would all snag and well that was acceptable back then i can't blame them for not doing it, Back them the ever one well some still today but its not true... they believed that snagging was the ONLY way to catch one of these spawning salmon. 

Later we find that they hit flies all the time, and no im not talking about chuck and duck because thats basically well I dont wanna get into that.
When the salmon enter the river they are still crome and still have the instincts they did in the lake.. attack and feed on baitfish, territorial attacks etc.. They can be caught on streamers during that phase and during the spawning phase the males can be caught on egg patterns (the males like to eat the eggs ... an egg is an egg to them its not canablism lol)
the other way to get them during this phase is to swing and hope you line them in the mouth. 

anyway Snagging brings out the crowd of people that just want to get their limit and go.. they dont care about the fish, they frankly dont care about the envirment due to the trash ALL snaggers leave behind. Snaggers think.. well the fish is gonna die, why let it go to waste when i can eat it.. so they will stack in at dams and just try to hook the fish anywhere and bring them in..... so many claim lets say its in the head... "OH he went for it but missed... he was deffinatly going for it .. ill take it"... "OH hooked him in the side... he was going for it trust me" so many variations when you know just as well as i do NO not a single fish will EVER EVER EVER eat a snagging lure.. 

Plus the fight of a fish that is hooked in the mouth compared to hooked in the side is CRAZY! You know it when one is hooked in the mouth... when its snagged... its just basically a freight train/ sometimes its compared to just pulling in dead weight. What fun is that... any angular that likes pulling in basically dead weight and not wanting to actually have a good fight with the fish is not a true angler... they just want to take them to eat.. 

and lastly is the violence that occurs amoung snaggers because they dont have respect for anyone.. its all about them and them getting their limit OR MORE


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## chlong (Oct 14, 2014)

This sickens and disgusts me, this was the betsie river the first weekend of September.. Snagger Haven from Homestead ALL the way down and i mean ALL the way down to m31. 

not a single person was legitamently trying to hook a fish in the mouth other than myself, because if they were they would not be using the methods they were and they most defiantly would not be going shoulder to shoulder ... ON BOTH SIDES OF THE RIVER.... The big manistee is one thing its a much bigger river.. this is the betsie river.. you could practically shake the hand of the guys across from you... I watched for 10 mins 6 different people hit each the person across from them with their bottom bouncing methods.. there were more tangled lines than there were fish in the river... though people still had fish on the stringers i can take a very good guess none of them were caught in the mouth absolute ridiculousness... those people are not fisherman..


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

chlong said:


> What fun is that... any angular that likes pulling in basically dead weight and not wanting to actually have a good fight with the fish is not a true angler... they just want to take them to eat..



I would guess that your a hard core fly guy.


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## chlong (Oct 14, 2014)

swampbuck said:


> I would guess that your a hard core fly guy.


Yes I am, but I'm not like most, I'm 2O and use to only spin fish, infact last year and the 5 years before that i took part in the shoulder to shoulder combat fishing during the salmon season at tippy. I only picked up fly fishing this spring after a long story i havent picked up a spin reel since.. and might not ever again. The feeling of a fish on a fly rod, is truly a completely different experience one that you CAN NOT GET from a spin rod/reel. I understand where the spin fisherman come from i was there.. but i will never go back to a spin reel. 


I should start a thread for people to share their story on why they switched from spin to fly ..


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

So is there something wrong with taking fish to eat ?


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## chlong (Oct 14, 2014)

swampbuck said:


> So is there something wrong with taking fish to eat ?


No, NOT AT ALL... if the fish is caught in the mouth, cuz the fish willingly took the bribe, rather than unwillingly be snagged..


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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

chlong said:


> Yes I am, but I'm not like most, I'm 2O and use to only spin fish, infact last year and the 5 years before that i took part in the shoulder to shoulder combat fishing during the salmon season at tippy. I only picked up fly fishing this spring after a long story i havent picked up a spin reel since.. and might not ever again. The feeling of a fish on a fly rod, is truly a completely different experience one that you CAN NOT GET from a spin rod/reel. I understand where the spin fisherman come from i was there.. but i will never go back to a spin reel.
> 
> 
> I should start a thread for people to share their story on why they switched from spin to fly ..


That's great! Unfortunately, those spin guys will hit 20 biters on eggs to every 1 you get on a fly...however you get them. As a person who's caught lot's of steelhead and a few kings on the flystick; it's the same as any other method, when you don't jade yourself.


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## chlong (Oct 14, 2014)

ausable_steelhead said:


> Unfortunately, those spin guys will hit 20 biters on eggs to every 1 you get on a fly
> 
> it's the same as any other method


Thats where I have to disagree, one its not the same as any other method... and our presentation is more natural, and less spooking, drag free in some cases.. and who said we arnt using spawn bags on a fly rod??? it is possible.. just not in flies only water... the spin guys have to use tons of led to cast thier tackle anywere.. creating a splash, hitting the bottom and spooking fish in every occasion ... whereas we have ours land on the water and start to slowly sink and drift along with alot less spooking of fish. 

Its defiantly not the same as any other method, and a fly guy will hook up (In the mouth where it actually counts)way more than a spin guy... i've tested it


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## chlong (Oct 14, 2014)

and none of those guys on the betsie was useing eggs... all were using torpedos or treble hooks with yarn on it calling it a wolly bugger.. all of them were snaggers no doubt


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## FishMichv2 (Oct 18, 2004)

chlong said:


> Thats where I have to agree, one its not the same as any other method... and our presentation is more natural, and less spooking, drag free in some cases.. and who said we arnt using spawn bags on a fly rod??? it is possible.. just not in flies only water... the spin guys have to use tons of led to cast thier tackle anywere.. creating a splash, hitting the bottom and spooking fish in every occasion ... whereas we have ours land on the water and start to slowly sink and drift along with alot less spooking of fish.
> 
> Its defiantly not the same as any other method, and a fly guy will hook up (In the mouth where it actually counts)way more than a spin guy... i've tested it


you were spin fishing wrong.


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