# Absolutely NO Birds Up North!!



## bishs

A bit off subject but. I have a lot of turkeys around my place 30 miles south of Saginaw. Again this year I leave 2-3 acres fo standing corn. It lasts all winter. The turkeys migrate away from my land less than a mile away. They prefer to winter along the river. They have corn stubble to pick through all winter. I just shake my head watching them scratch through a foot of snow, when I have standing corn all winter. Deer stay here, byt turkeys leave. They winter 1 mile away from me in two directions.


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## Linda G.

There's something there in the winter that they don't like...I get that from people who want them around in the winter who have them in the summer all the time. It usually comes down to protection from the wind and predators.


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## bishs

I have mature timber behind me that is adjacent to farmland. The turkeys roost in this area all times of the year, except winter. when you drive around you will see a trend. The birds winter up along all the rivers that are lined with mature timber. They just can't resist. There was a flock of 80-100 birds along the river 1 mile from me. Same thing every year. This is the largest, the flock has ever been. 
Ps, since our last discussion, I have seen two more turkeys hold tight in the weeds and flush up like pheasants, during late summer/fall time frame.


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## FireDoc66

> those are simply people who have no regard for turkeys and little knowledge of them.


Actually, it seems like the reverse of that statement. Maybe its the folks who dont like to hear about birds being kept in areas that are obviously unsustainable to their numbers. Who dont like to hear about how birds survival is dependent on folks feeding them to survive their environment, and if none of that food is available then they can slowly starve and die a long, slow painful death. Or they can congregate up and become easy fodder for all the yotes running around. For petes sake, the DNR ran a main header on their website all winter long *AGAINST *the supplemental feeding of birds! That should mean something. 

And before anyone blows smoke about Its all for the love of the turkeys, etc., etc. just remember that every program needs reassessment over time. Obviously what is happening is not working, and Im not talking DNR either. Stop making the birds pay the price for human reasons. 

I like to see and hunt bear, and elk. Guess what, none in this area. I drive to where they are. You want to see birds  drive south. And access issues? How is someone like Thunderhead able to garner as many spots as he has had available to him and his clients over the years? Forging relationships. It happens every day here on this Board, and theres even an example being posted on the same topic right now. I have even offered up hunting access to folks on here over the years. Some spots to even Northern folks, unbelievable as that is! You need a new hunting spot, start forging. 

I guess the main question though is this; If this whole supplemental feeding is not to have birds for hunting, and the numbers are so bad there should be a moratorium on seasons in that area why then would anyone especially you Linda, be out hunting them now? Dead birds, male or female, dont breed. :sad: :16suspect

But Im sure over a dinner/lunch/breakfast/phone conversation with **INSERT LINDA G. OBLIGATORY TURKEY HUNTING RELATED NAME DROP** they probably clued you in to that as well.


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## DEDGOOSE

I heard as many this morning as I have ever heard in 17 seasons


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## Ieatantlers

I think poaching is a huge issue in the NLP, both turkey and deer. Add a tough economy to that situation, and you get even more. On here even, there is an incredible amount of sympathy for people 'poaching to feed their families'. Explain that to the guy waking up at 4 am every morning for the entire season, and not able to find a bird...


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## onebigdaddy29

while i was not hunting i finally made it to the cabin in benzie county last weekend and saw as many or a few more hens and jakes as always. i like to hunt turkeys up there but hunt them more down here in the flint area because of work. it allows me more time to hunt (after work ) and can be more picky on big gobblers.


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## swampbuck

Ieatantlers said:


> I think poaching is a huge issue in the NLP, both turkey and deer. Add a tough economy to that situation, and you get even more. On here even, there is an incredible amount of sympathy for people 'poaching to feed their families'. Explain that to the guy waking up at 4 am every morning for the entire season, and not able to find a bird...


 I have to disagree. While poaching certainly happens. I would not consider it common by a long shot. Probably no worse than any area of the state, And Roscommon county has one of the highest unemployment rates in the state as well as 60%public land.

We are just a little north of turkey range, They never existed here prior to planting. And are dying out due to no feeding, bad winters, and hunting. I dont hunt them, I do understand that its important to people.

I would support a temporary halt to hunting. Leave the birds to fend for themselves and if a huntable population results so be it. Animal husbandry is not the answer to provide a hunting opportunity.......Unless its a high fence operation


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## Wildcatdad

In Northern Michigan we have bad winters and good winters. Animal populations will be better some years than others. Turkeys migrate. I followed hen tracks over two miles up a logging road before season. I usually hunt the state land forests, not this year. I asked permission and was easily granted on every farm I asked. The turkeys were in the cornfields. I hunt with three couples. We have all filled our tags. Six tags, six birds. 
I laugh everytime I hear someone complain about the DNR and selling tags, and what a great money maker it is. I spent probably a couple hundred dollars in gas, new decoys, a new call, a box of shells, and I already owned the popup blind, shotgun and all the other little things. I spent $30.00 on my wifes and my tags. I actually think that was the biggest bargain on everything I spent.


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## Spartan88

I see birds all the time, just yesterday a nice long beard on state land. This morning they were yapping it up on the roost behind my house, a tom and two jakes. I see no reason spring season should be closed up here. As for the 234 hunt, I havent seen a turkey hunter or a vehicle parked since May 8th in the areas I travel. It isnt all doom and gloom in the NLP turkey woods...


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## blizzak

It's certainly my opinion that the birds took a heavy hit across the entire NL in the winter of 08/09. If everyone would of been able to feed, we still would have lost birds. The fact that many people with large tracts of property ignored the ban, many folks went to great extreams to meet the requirements to feed the birds, and the fact that they do know where to go to get a feeder meal in a pinch, we still had birds in the NL at the end of that winter.

I believe many areas in the NL would already be barren of Turkeys again if we would of had another winter anywhere close to that in 09/10, instead of the freaky winter we had. It's sad to see the Turkey hunting in the NL going the same way so many other things have gone in Michigan. I guess we can always go field hunt them in the SLP, but their just a different bird down there.:sad:

One things for sure the DNRE doesn't care, they have them established in the SLP, all is good$$$$$$$$$$


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## DRHUNTER

I agree blizzak. I've spent my life hunting deer and bear in the NL and when turkeys were introduced and became huntable it was awesome. It kills me that that area is becoming void of everything but bear (so far). Hunting turkeys in SLP is fun but just not the same, at least for me. I feel for the people up there that are trying to make a honest living. Between the lack of deer, turkey and snow it's surprising any of them still have a business left. They end up with the short end of the stick thanks to our government and its politics. Take care.


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## Linda G.

I've hunted turkeys in eight other states, and there's NOTHING to compare to hunting the wild turkey in the forests and fields of Michigan's public land in the northern lower peninsula and UP. Nothing else even comes close. 

The states I've hunted include Ohio, Tennessee, Kansas, Utah, Florida, Wisconsin, Maryland and Pennsylvania. Soon to add the state of Vermont. 

We will never see anything as good as our turkey hunting in northern Michigan was 10-15 years ago, but we will continue to struggle to hang onto what we have left. Weather, the DNRE and the economy can give you quite a battle...

Make that nine states, I've hunted Iowa, too.


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## mikieday

I support anything or anyone that wants to do whatever it takes to help turkeys thrive...weather its additional feeding or a hold on hunting or change up on the rules during the fall or spring whatever is a realistic approach to making it better...if we introduced any animal it is our responsibility to do what is needed to make sure that animal can survive..i hate to hear some people dont agree..oh well, I vote and I will vote the direction of helping the flocks increase..( i say feed the turkey) if the winter was so bad and the deer were droping like flies you would hear a way different story out of some....I perfer the Turkey over the deer but I would still vote to help the deer.

Mike


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## Jim Maturen

Should Wild Turkeys exist in northern Michigan with it's millions of acres of iblic forests availbale to everyone? Absolutely! They have existed and thrived here for the past 60 years. For the past 27 years the Michigan Wild Turkey Hunters Association has been very active in the ditribution of turkeys throughoutt the north. The turkey population has been declining for the past 10 years or so. Each year chapters of MWTHA in partnership with local people purchase and distribute many tons of shelled corn, free of charge to assist the turkeys only during the severe winter months. The problem has been one of lack of support from the majority of huters who contribte nothing in support of the turkeys. Two years ago there was record snowfall throughout northern Michigan, yet there were gobblers to hunt the following spring. A miricle.?No, just hard earned cash and a lot of dedication. An article appeared in MichiGAN tURKEY tRACKS that dealt with the issue of should Wild Turkeys belong in norhern Michig? It should be on the MWTHA website at www.mwtha.net


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## swampbuck

Wild Turkeys HAVE NOT been present in the NLP for anywhere near 60 yrs.


Mikieday........ The deer did take a MAJOR hit in the winter 08/09


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## blizzak

swampbuck said:


> Wild Turkeys HAVE NOT been present in the NLP for anywhere near 60 yrs.
> 
> 
> Mikieday........ The deer did take a MAJOR hit in the winter 08/09


 I can speak to Turkeys being present in the NL 40 years ago. I've heard many stories putting them there before that.


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## michhutr

40 years ago means 1970. If Baldwin and Kalkaska are consider nlp then there were turkeys around then or the toms i heard each morning were other hunters calling each other................


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## Jim Maturen

Wild Turkeys were planted in the Baldwin area in the 1950's. The first hunting seasons were held in the fall in the 1960's. That brings them close to the 60 year mark-eh?


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## mikieday

swampbuck said:


> Wild Turkeys HAVE NOT been present in the NLP for anywhere near 60 yrs.
> 
> 
> Mikieday........ The deer did take a MAJOR hit in the winter 08/09


i know...and if this baiting/feeding ban was not in effect or tweeked to benefit the deer it wouldnt have been so hard on them,


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## TrekJeff

I ahd to laugh at alot of the comments in this thread and I'm so glad that those that posted are not in charge of the wildlife management in this State. 

How about a bit of history....how strong was the turkey population before the hunting started in the past fifty years or so? It was growing. Hunting was allowed when the population could sustain the impact. The predation also increased with the population increase. Winter kill increased. It's just a normal cycle. The State could issue 100,000 permits. But most people burn up thier vacation time/hunting time up over deer season. Those that can take a week or two just for turkey just isn't as high. Count how many turkeys you see deer hunting...if you see more deer than turkeys, PM me. 
Count the number of successful deer hunters over the past year. 

Just because you aren't seeing 500 birds in your fields any more doesn't mean the world of turkey hunting is going to end...you may just have to HUNT for them...what a concept.


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## DRHUNTER

TrekJeff said:


> I ahd to laugh at alot of the comments in this thread and I'm so glad that those that posted are not in charge of the wildlife management in this State.
> 
> How about a bit of history....how strong was the turkey population before the hunting started in the past fifty years or so? It was growing. Hunting was allowed when the population could sustain the impact. The predation also increased with the population increase. Winter kill increased. It's just a normal cycle. The State could issue 100,000 permits. But most people burn up thier vacation time/hunting time up over deer season. Those that can take a week or two just for turkey just isn't as high. Count how many turkeys you see deer hunting...if you see more deer than turkeys, PM me.
> Count the number of successful deer hunters over the past year.
> 
> Just because you aren't seeing 500 birds in your fields any more doesn't mean the world of turkey hunting is going to end...you may just have to HUNT for them...what a concept.



If you hunt near your cabin in Weidman then you have no clue about the turkey population in NELP that the rest of us idiots are talking about. There is only one post here that is truly laughable. Thats what I love about this site that USED to be truly enjoyable to read and sometimes contribute to. It has evolved into a nitpick session with a group of keyboard badasses who pretend to know everything about anything and think that whatever is happening in their backyard is the norm across the entire state. Maybe you hunt that area as well I don't know and don't care. If you want to laugh at everyone else to make yourself feel big go for it just keep it to yourself.


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## Linda G.

is typical of a lot of people who really don't care about turkeys. Unfortunately, the DNR obviously spends more time listening to people like him when they implement things like "a turkey a day" than they do listening to people who really care about the future of turkey hunting in this state.

As faras "100,000 permits"...with the unlimited quota hunt it is estimated that we actually have about 450,000-500,000 spring permits out there every spring. Then there's all those fall permits, including a "turkey a day" in southern Michigan and Beaver Island.

And I do see far more deer than turkeys...year around...


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## k9wernet

Linda G. said:


> And I do see far more deer than turkeys...year around...


There are a lot of factors that would cause that Linda, many of which have nothing to do with Turkeys being in bad shape.

I grew up in Eaton and Ingham Counties. Moved to Kalamazoo and Barry for college. And back to Ingham for the past 6 years. Lots of regular trips up to Kent County for 29 years. It wasn't until 5 or 6 years that I started seeing birds regularly.

I know this thread is about northern turkeys, but here's my point: Just because I didn't see them doesn't mean they weren't there. Obviously they were there, and obviously they were getting along quite well. 

Now that I AM finally seeing them -- regularly, in huge groups, and in places they shouldn't be (downtown Lansing, Jackson, etc) -- NOW we're talking about Turkey-a-day.

I don't know what the status of birds are in Northern counties. I do know that we see birds North of Wexford county (not telling where !) every spring. Not huge numbers -- but does anyone expect to see huge numbers in May? You might have 80 birds in a field in April, and the next month you have to, well, HUNT for them. That's been my experience up in Northwest Lower, in Midland, even down here in bird-rich Eaton County.

That said, I sure hope the DNRE is intelligent enough to not base management decisions on one man's opinions and experiences -- be they yours, mine, or anybody else's.

KW


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## Paperboy 1

Well said Linda. Both of you for that matter.


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## TrekJeff

DRHUNTER said:


> If you hunt near your cabin in Weidman then you have no clue about the turkey population in NELP that the rest of us idiots are talking about. There is only one post here that is truly laughable. Thats what I love about this site that USED to be truly enjoyable to read and sometimes contribute to. It has evolved into a nitpick session with a group of keyboard badasses who pretend to know everything about anything and think that whatever is happening in their backyard is the norm across the entire state. Maybe you hunt that area as well I don't know and don't care. If you want to laugh at everyone else to make yourself feel big go for it just keep it to yourself.



Very good assumption, your first word negates the following.."IF" We hunt Gladwin, Pinconning, Isabella, Genesee, Atlanta and Hillman, and I said what I said as a broad statement of things happening over the entire state. Fields here in Genesee County normally full of turkeys were few and far between this spring. Our yote numbers are higher than ever and the winter wasn't as bad as you had it in the NE, but is was a pretty good one. The reason for my laughter isn't to boast my ego as you would presume, is standing on your soap box yours? 

Linda assuming I'm one who has no interest is also false. I'll easily put my time in the field, restoring habitat and living with a passion for the outdoors and our resources on par with ANYONE. Do I know EVERYTHING...hellz no, but I defiantly stay in the fold of information...if my expression of laughter offended anyone...well there's more to look at than something as petty as that.


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## Linda G.

I will wait with bated breath for the day you can take a turkey a day in downtown Lansing...or anything for that matter...LOL

It's BECAUSE the less knowledgeable see birds like this in places they don't belong that we get the turkey a day...which does NOTHING for the problems in areas they don't belong, like downtown Lansing. But it could have a huge effect on the flock you hunt out in the sticks in the woods on public land...where, if anything, there's not ENOUGH birds...

yes, there's still birds in northern lower Michigan and the UP...but enough on public land? In very few places, if any at all...they're on private lands, for the most part, where the living, and the food, is a lot easier to come by. 

The answer is NOT turkey a day...anywhere in the state...and here in the north, in the winter, we know exactly how many turkeys we have. Come on up here in February and I'll show you how we know that...LOL


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## k9wernet

Linda G. said:


> Come on up here in February and I'll show you how we know that...LOL


Any debate, joking, or animosity aside, Linda -- I'd love to take you up on that.

KW


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## Linda G.

We'd love to have you come up and see what wild turkey preservation in the north is all about...we could use the help, too. You'll be very surprised, I think. Several other folks from this site have come up, too. They've all gone home with a much clearer understanding of what we're all about. 

Get hold of me after [email protected]


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## blizzak

k9wernet said:


> There are a lot of factors that would cause that Linda, many of which have nothing to do with Turkeys being in bad shape.
> 
> I grew up in Eaton and Ingham Counties. Moved to Kalamazoo and Barry for college. And back to Ingham for the past 6 years. Lots of regular trips up to Kent County for 29 years. It wasn't until 5 or 6 years that I started seeing birds regularly.
> 
> I know this thread is about northern turkeys, but here's my point: Just because I didn't see them doesn't mean they weren't there. Obviously they were there, and obviously they were getting along quite well.
> 
> Now that I AM finally seeing them -- regularly, in huge groups, and in places they shouldn't be (downtown Lansing, Jackson, etc) -- NOW we're talking about Turkey-a-day.
> 
> I don't know what the status of birds are in Northern counties. I do know that we see birds North of Wexford county (not telling where !) every spring. Not huge numbers -- but does anyone expect to see huge numbers in May? You might have 80 birds in a field in April, and the next month you have to, well, HUNT for them. That's been my experience up in Northwest Lower, in Midland, even down here in bird-rich Eaton County.
> 
> That said, I sure hope the DNRE is intelligent enough to not base management decisions on one man's opinions and experiences -- be they yours, mine, or anybody else's.
> 
> KW


 This is the same mentality the DNRE uses to set ignorent laws in place like Turkey- a -day. Or unlimited doe permits for a DMU because there are deer running amuck in the big city in the middle or the QDMA co - op on the West side of the DMU.

*Killing all the deer or turkeys around the sanctuary is not going to help the problem in the sanctuary.* Yes there is going to be an influx of cash while they burn through the resource and the unknowing will praise the effort to control the highly visible animals.

But when the same protected highly visible animals haven't been touched and the other areas are void of game. *What really has been acomplished - short term$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ *

Maybe this is their plan to replace the money they were siphoning off our DRIP fund for the Warblers in the NELP????


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## unclecbass

Have to agree with Linda G. Living in NLP year round I have seen a dramatic change in the turkey pop post winter 09, due in my opinion to the ban on baiting. When baiting was legal I used to have turkey central all winter coming to my corn spreaders. I used to keep them filled just for the sake of the turkeys. I never understood how they could survive in all that snow. Now I know the answer. The only place I see turkeys on a regular basis is in my buddys farm fields where they leave standing corn all winter, and in a local lady's yard where she feeds them all winter.To hell with the baiting ban.


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## mak

I've been seeing turkeys up here and there are plenty of small ones out by my property. I almost ran over a flock of them last week. Last year there were dead ones on US 27 out in front of my land weekly.

Did they close all of the NLP for the fall season?


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## Linda G.

There's decent numbers of turkeys in some certain areas-where they were fed last winter and the winter before that and the winter before that. But then you'll go 100 miles through the rest of Cheboygan County and never see a bird. 

Yes, they closed the entire lower...our area, J, which Emmet/Cheboygan is part of, was closed this year, thankfully. And we were the last nlp area to close...the other former nlp fall areas have all been closed for a while, due to a lack of need for the hunt. Remember, it was supposed to be a management hunt, not a sport hunt like the spring season.


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## mak

Wonder if that affects the tribal permits under treaty?

Seeing as they don't give doe permits in Cheboygan county but the tribal permits allow doe harvest I would assume it is the same with turkey harvest since tribal members get 2 turkey tags.

For deer each tribal member receives 5 tags which can be used for either sex deer.


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## TrekJeff

Mak, I may be wrong, which wouldn't be the first time today, but I thought most tribal regs paralleled those set by the State. I understand they are a sovereign nation and have the right to set their own regs, but just didn't know their permits were that much different. BUT even if it is, I'd find it hard to believe that the tribal hunters are the cause of the numbers.


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## mak

TrekJeff said:


> Mak, I may be wrong, which wouldn't be the first time today, but I thought most tribal regs paralleled those set by the State. I understand they are a sovereign nation and have the right to set their own regs, but just didn't know their permits were that much different. BUT even if it is, I'd find it hard to believe that the tribal hunters are the cause of the numbers.


I've never said the tribal permits were the cause of no turkeys.

Some of my family members have tribal permits for turkeys and tribal permits often allow holders to take game in areas others can not. Just as the DNR does not issue doe permits in Cheboygan county (but every other county up here seems to have them) but the tribal permits allow 5 does to be harvested. 

Mullett Lake was being considered for no walleye harvest by the DNR except for tribal members (which the tribe opposed those restrictions on others not being able to fish walleyes).

This would lead me to believe that the DNR rules and the tribal rules are not always the same.

From what I read, it appears that tribal members can hunt for any game they have a tribal permit for in the area that was given up under the treaties. The latest tribal regulations online I have found were updated in 2004. I'll have to go check the printed regulations to see if they have been updated.

http://www.narf.org/nill/Codes/saultcode/ssmcode21hunt.htm

21.204 Ceded Territory.


"Ceded Territory" shall mean the land and water ceded by the Treaty of March 28, 1836 (7 Stat. 491), generally described as: "Beginning at the mouth of Grand River of Lake Michigan on the north bank thereof, and following up the same to the line called for, in the first article of the Treaty of Chicago of the 29th of August 1821, thence, in a direct line, to the head of Thunder-Bay River, thence with the line established by the Treaty of Saginaw of the 24th of September 1819, to the mouth of said River, thence northeast to the boundary line in Lake Huron between the United States and the British province of Upper Canada, thence northwesterly, following the said line, as established by the commissioners acting under the Treaty of Ghent, through the straits, and river St. Mary's, to a point in Lake Superior north of the mouth of Gitchy Seebing, or Chocolate River, thence south to the mouth of said river and up its channel to the head of the Skonawba River of Green Bay, thence down the south bank of said river to its mouth, thence in a direct line, through the ship channel into Green Bay, to the outer part thereof, thence south to a point in Lake Michigan west of the north cape, or entrance of Grand River, and thence east to the point of beginning, at the cape aforesaid, comprehending all the lands and islands within these limits, not hereinafter reserved." (See Attached Map)

21.501 Hunting Permit Required.


Every member of the Sault Ste. Marie Tribe who takes game within the Ceded Territory shall have in his/her possession a valid Hunting Identification Permit. This permit must be in possession at all times when carrying firearms within the Ceded Territory when shooting, trapping or taking small game, big game or furbearing animals within the Ceded Territory, or when possessing or transporting any place in the State of Michigan any small game, big game or furbearing animals lawfully taken within the Ceded Territory or Exclusive Territory.


21.502 Tribal Permit Exclusive.


No member of the Sault Ste. Marie Tribe shall be required to purchase or possess a Michigan big game, small game or trapping license when hunting or trapping within the Ceded Territory or Exclusive Territory, or when possessing or transporting any small game, big game or furbearing animal lawfully taken within the Ceded Territory or Exclusive Territory, anywhere within the State of Michigan, provided that he has in his possession a valid Hunting Identification Permit.


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## mak

*21.702 Deer.​*Deer may be harvested with a bow and arrow, cross bow, rifle, shotgun or
muzzleloader subject to the following seasons and bag limits.
(1) Bow and crossbow season shall be the day after Labor Day through the
Sunday of the first full weekend in January.
(2) Firearm season shall be:
(a) Early season shall be the day after Labor Day through October 31.
(b) Late season shall be November 15 through the Sunday of the first
full weekend in January.
(3) The bag limit for deer shall be:
(a) A limit of five (5) deer per Tribal member per year, no more than
two of which may be antlered with one antler measuring at least three inches (3).
(b) For the early firearm season the bag limit shall be two (2) deer,
only one of which may be antlered with one antler measuring at least three inches
(3").​*21.703 Wild Turkey.​*(1) Wild turkey season shall be:
(a) Spring season shall be April 15 through June 15. Bag limit shall
be 2 bearded-birds only.
(b) Fall season shall be October 1 through November 14. Bag limit
shall be 2 birds of either sex combined.​(2) The bag limit for turkey shall be two birds per season.

http://www.saulttribe.com/images/stories/government/tribalcode/chaptr21.pdf


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## Linda G.

Because the tribes are soverign, I don't believe anything the state does affects the tribal regs, under the inland agreement. So if members of the tribes want to take two turkeys this year, I'm pretty sure they still can. 

For everyone else, Beaver Island was split off from Area J this year and given their own fall hunt, because they believe they have too many turkeys over there...see my remarks on that in one of the turkey a day threads, not sure if it was this one or not. 

So if you want to hunt fall birds in the nlp, you can go over there. 

I sure hope that new area they gave to Beaver doesn't also apply to the spring hunt, because they may have shot themselves in the foot with all the people who have tags for Area J who will occasionally take a day trip over there to hunt in the springtime, too, but do most of their hunting on the mainland-I'm one of those. Since I can't get tags for two areas for the same hunt, if that happens next spring, there won't be any more turkey hunting trips to Beaver Island for me-or several other people I know from around here who like to take a day or so and hunt over there.


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## TrekJeff

Mak, thanks for the clarification.


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## shop tom

Alpena area. Used to have a couple of flocks of 30 or so pass through my yard several times a week. Since early last spring there has been one, ONE lonely hen wandering around the area. I suspect someone local has taken upon themselves to take care of a perceived "nuisance" problem (several people nearby have large gardens)............

Now crows are a different matter. 6-7 AM around my house and you can't hear yourself think outside with all the CAW, CAW, and the occasional GRONK of a raven thrown in.

tom


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## TrekJeff

One thing to keep in mind, Turkeys are not designed for areas that recived deep snow. So with that fact being what it is, the Northern parts of the state really were never part of the original ecology.. I understand the frustrations, but it is what it is. The birds in the north have alot of trouble surviving with out human interaction, and with the bait ban in place, it's going to get tougher.


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## Linda G.

We are well aware of that up here, but it's not something we want to just lay down and accept. You have to try...


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## nock them down

Just west of clare been out deer hunting and see toms jakes and hens, we are seeing 40 a day so went and got a left over and got the job done, wish i could see deer in these numbers


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