# Cinammon Teal and....



## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

gotduksikness said:


> Also i have yet to shoot a drake blue wing. Ive gotten several hens but no drake. I also have shot a few hen ruddys the last couple years and have seen a few awesome drakes but none in the bag.


Easy buck, no one is slamming you. I was merely pointing out that you will not get a drake blue wing in Mi during hunting season that is even remotely close to being mountable. If you wish to hold out for one, have at it, I hope you prove me wrong. 

Same with the Ruddy. You may see some drakes with a white patch on their cheak, but if you think you seeing or are going to shoot a nice rusty fully colored up drake, you will be waiting more than a few lifetimes. Again, I hope you can prove me wrong. We kill about 20/year and get them with light blue bills, white on the cheek and "some" rust colored feathers, but nothing even remotely close to warranting a trip to the taxidermist.

The only thing I will say that is remotely insulting is that if you are reporting to seeing a few "awesome" as in mountable drake ruddies a year, you are mistaken, since they do not get colored up until long after our season closes.

Big difference between this, which is what you are probably seeing:









and this:


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## gotduksikness (Nov 22, 2005)

Thanks gentleman, ill be sure not to start anymore threads.


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## thedude (Jul 20, 2004)

relax man. like i said before... i've heard the cinny story way too many times and never see proof - the odds of seeing one out here are way out there - combine that with the odds of seeing on in plumage and you are talking lotto odds.

that said, i wouldn't completely discount the possibility, just skeptical like i said. I've seen pictures of a fulvous whistling duck at a managed area about 30 miles south of the MI border in indiana... so anything can happen.


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## thedude (Jul 20, 2004)

relax man. like i said before... i've heard the cinny story way too many times and never see proof - the odds of seeing one out here are way out there - combine that with the odds of seeing on in plumage and you are talking lotto odds.

that said, i wouldn't completely discount the possibility, just skeptical like i said. I've seen pictures of a fulvous whistling duck at a managed area about 30 miles south of the MI border in indiana... so anything can happen.

also - in the piles of bluewings i've shot during teal seasons in Indiana... drakes and hens are only differentiated by a slight color variation on the speculum. Virtually impossible to ID on the wing and still pretty confusing in hand.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

Easy.........the MI Cinnamon Teal is the waterfowlers equivalent of the MI Cougar. If you say you've seen one, you have to expect someone to call BS and ask for pics-


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

gotduksikness said:


> Thanks gentleman, ill be sure not to start anymore threads.


If your going to get PO'd every time someone suggests you are mistaken, or doubts you, you are going to go through life as one PO'd guy.

I've shot immature old squaw that on coming in I could have sworn were scoter, I've shot deer on the run toward dark that scored 20" smaller than I would have guessed, I've taken in some sweet Can to the taxidermist only to have him point out they still had pin feathers...The list goes on and on. Being mistaken is nothing to be upset about.

Again, I have not commented on a Cinny, who knows what you saw. I am merely pointing out that the drake blue wings and drake ruddies that you see on the wing and think are plummed out, are not. When you do connect on one, you'll get the bird in hand and understand.

Like someone earlier posted, Ruddies are not like other ducks where they are colored up in their winter plumage. With ruddies, their summer plumage is what you see in all the great pics that get published. So it really is biologically impossible for them to have full color during our duck season. Not Caddis's point of view, but a fact that you can research.


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## Shlwego (Sep 13, 2006)

I've heard Cinny teal stories before, and some sound pretty convincing, so I'm not going to say it couldn't happen, but I have yet to see pictures. Still, we occasionally get some strange stuff through the Great Lakes. A couple of years back there were pictures floating around the 'net of a Harlequin on the river in Grand Rapids, and there have been Harli's taken on Lake Michigan, and I never would have thought they'd be around. On the MDHA site a few years ago a guy posted pictures of a Black Bellied Whistling Duck he got up near Sag Bay. The thread is still on the MDHA board, but the pictures have been removed by photobucket (http://midha.org/forums/showthread.php?t=861&highlight=WHISTLING). I saw them when they were posted and there's no reason to think the guy made it up. So who knows what you may be lucky enough to drop? But if you DO get something unique and you're gonna talk about it, a picture is a must - preferably one that can be "location verified."


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

I recall that someone shot a Harley...or so they claimed...a few years back on the bay. I seem to recall that the DNR verified it.


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## decoy706 (Jul 28, 2006)

The Cinn Teal was shot at Pt Mouillee and was an escaped bird had the toe clipped
The Tree Duck was shot at NYQP area and verified by the DNR and Bird Watchers of America out of Ann Arbor
The Harli was shot near Chicago on Lk Michigan and another in Ohio on Lk Eire but both were not in color
Dead Full Color BWT have been found in the spring in Michigan but nobody talks about them:lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## gotduksikness (Nov 22, 2005)

Man, i was hoping that the guy that did shoot it would post any minute now, any minute now, any-----------------------minute------------------------now. ok maybe i would understand about the ruddy, maybe i havent seen an awsome sweet plume ruddy and just thought i did, but the cinny, theres no doubt there, This guys was holding this bird like a brick of gold. Im sure he slept with it under his pillow that night, he was so excited. And this was later in the season. It was in the managed area at point mouillee. When i saw it all i could say was wow no ****e a cinnamon teal. and the smile on that guys face was more than confirming. and talk about a small bird, very small. Was cool experience none the less. So i guess my chances of shooting a banded cinny is slim to none?


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## gotduksikness (Nov 22, 2005)

So what im lead to believe about the blue wing is that the drakes plumage takes way longer to come in that the green wings drakes plumage? I shot some butter ball awsome green wing drakes later in the season last year. Seem like a 2 week run on em. I shot plenty of blue wing hens but you guys are telling me that blue wing drakes and green wing drakes plumage are coming in months differently?

I mean if im shooting a limit of green wing drakes with spectacular plumage i can expect to not see and identify a drake blue wing?

I have a hard time believing that. Please enlighten me.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

gotduksikness said:


> So what im lead to believe about the blue wing is that the drakes plumage takes way longer to come in that the green wings drakes plumage? I shot some butter ball awsome green wing drakes later in the season last year. Seem like a 2 week run on em. I shot plenty of blue wing hens but you guys are telling me that blue wing drakes and green wing drakes plumage are coming in months differently?
> 
> I mean if im shooting a limit of green wing drakes with spectacular plumage i can expect to not see and identify a drake blue wing?
> 
> I have a hard time believing that. Please enlighten me.


99% of all bluewings left this state before opener. and they are all damn near brown when they leave. sure some are shot on opening week but rule of thumb its rare to pop a bluewing after the 1st week.

you will NOT shoot a mounter bluewing in one of our seasons. I don't care who you are, there is no way chance in he#% you will get a mounter outa michigan in october. If you shoot one in in november buy a lotto ticket...but it still won't have plume.

do greens and blues plume the same? i dunno. i've maybe seen 1-2 greenwing mounters in last 10 years but they were shot late in november long after the bluewings left town.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

decoy706 said:


> The Cinn Teal was shot at Pt Mouillee and was an escaped bird had the toe clipped
> The Tree Duck was shot at NYQP area and verified by the DNR and Bird Watchers of America out of Ann Arbor
> The Harli was shot near Chicago on Lk Michigan and another in Ohio on Lk Eire but both were not in color
> Dead Full Color BWT have been found in the spring in Michigan but nobody talks about them:lol::lol::lol::lol:


there was multiple posts last year of harly's shot on wisconsin side of lake michigan. I can think of 2 posts that had harly pic's in it last year. I think that it is getting more common along with scoter, long tails etc cuz the way the waters have changed over the years. zebra muscles did a number on our water for sure.


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## Shlwego (Sep 13, 2006)

gotduksikness said:


> So what im lead to believe about the blue wing is that the drakes plumage takes way longer to come in that the green wings drakes plumage? I shot some butter ball awsome green wing drakes later in the season last year. Seem like a 2 week run on em. I shot plenty of blue wing hens but you guys are telling me that blue wing drakes and green wing drakes plumage are coming in months differently?
> 
> I mean if im shooting a limit of green wing drakes with spectacular plumage i can expect to not see and identify a drake blue wing?
> 
> I have a hard time believing that. Please enlighten me.


It has nothing to do with _how long_ it takes the plumage to "come in." It has everything to do with where the ducks actually _ARE _when the plumage comes in. The fact is that for the most part, the Bluewings are long gone from here when they get their color. There are lots of different species of teal worldwide, and while they're all fairly similar in some respects, in other ways they're very different. One of the most important differences is their cold hardiness. Bluewings are sissys. So are Cinnamon teal. About the time we get our first frost, most Bluewings are GONE, as are the Cinnamons in the Pacific Flyway (some years, the Bluewings start showing up in Louisiana the third week in August). This is usually well before the drakes take on their breeding colors. By the time that Bluewing and Cinnamon drakes take on their breeding plumage, most of them are on the Gulf of Mexico or even futher south. Greenwings are different. They're known as fairly cold hardy ducks. They may be small, but they have no problem hanging out with the Mallards in the cold. It's not uncommon to take Greenwings during the late weekend in January here in southern Michigan - and if you get a drake then, chances are he'll be pretty well colored. So while getting a Bluewing drake in full color here is rare, taking a Greenwing drake in full color is much more common. A Cinnnamon drake in full color in Michigan would be exponentially rare, not only because of the fact that they don't show up in this flyway very frequently, but also because even where they _are_ common, they're warm weather ducks that don't often hang around in the north long enough to get their breeding colors. Note that I'm not saying that it's impossible, as teal are known to be world travelers: In the Pacific Flyway they occasionally take Baikal teal from Asia, and the Atlantic Flyway frequently sees Euro-Greenwings from Scandanavia (which are _really hard_ to tell apart from N. American Greenwings). Additionally, the hens from ALL of these teal species are pretty difficult to tell apart in the hand, let alone on the wing. Knowing this, I believe that Cinnamon teal and perhaps other uncommon teal species have occasionally visited Michigan, but the rarity of it means that IF you take one, having a picture is that much more important. 
I guess what I'm saying is that IF anyone has taken an "odd teal" in Michigan, post up with your story, and if possible, let's see a picture.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> do greens and blues plume the same? i dunno. i've maybe seen 1-2 greenwing mounters in last 10 years


Same here, except I'll add "that looked to be good mounters". After taking our taxidermist with us to N.C. this January and shooting roughly 20 January drake Green Wings and having only one be what Roland said was a mounter, I speculate most nice green wings that I've seen in Michigan still had pin feathers in their side pockets.

Here is a pic of some January green wings. Not a one of these was a mounter.



















Most birds that look nice on the wing or in hand are no where near mount quality. Unless you are a taxidermist, it can be very hard to tell. I know even Just Ducky claims he shoots mounter Can's in Oct. in S.D. I am also very skeptical of that  Sorry Dan :lol:


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## waxico (Jan 21, 2008)

Hey ducksicness~
There is another elusive species that I am ALWAYS on the prowl for...the 

*BEARDED CLAMGANSER!*

But, those hens look mighty weird hanging on my wall.

It's my birthday, dammit, and I want to laugh!

Just go out there, shoot, dream, put the field. You'll get some kind of prize, may not be the grail birds, but it'll be unusual none the less.


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## waxico (Jan 21, 2008)

They are the first migrators because they are water surface insect feeders for the most part. If you look at their bills closely, you'll notice they curve outward in the mid section more than GWTs. This is designed to surface strain, just like a Spoonie, a BWT on steroids. GWTs hang around longer because they eat more vegatation.
The time you notice the swamp bugs start to disappear, the BWTs will disappear. It's all about the food supply. They are one of the last you'll see heading north in the spring, along with Redheads.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

waxico said:


> *BEARDED CLAMGANSER!*


ah the dreaded clamganser.


happy birthday Wax!


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

waxico said:


> Hey ducksicness~
> There is another elusive species that I am ALWAYS on the prowl for...the
> 
> *BEARDED CLAMGANSER!*
> ...


 
LOL- that made me laugh.

Happy Birthday Waxi-


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## Blacklab77 (Jun 21, 2006)

Photo taken Sept 28 2007, At boat launch off of Jefferson Ave, north of 15 Mile Road. When my wife took the photo and saw it at a later date. I thought it was some odd Farm Duck. Later learn it was a Cin. Teal. I've heard stories from Great uncles and Grandpa that Sag Bay useto see a fair amount of them in the 60's. But I think there just that stories.

Blacklab


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## Ieatantlers (Oct 7, 2008)

'Mountable' and 'perfect specimen' are two entirely different things. If I shot a cinnamon in michigan, and it had a few pin feathers still- it sure as hell would go on the wall. I'd have to believe most taxidermists make a living off of 98% of their ducks which have a few pin feathers.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

I'll rephrase then, since a lot of people don't know what a mountable bird looks like, or don't care. IMO, most do care, they just do not know.

Rephrasing: It is not possible to shoot a ruddy or bluewing in Michigan that any ethical taxidermist would mount without telling you that it is not a prime bird and will not look good.

I'm sure it does not matter to most if a bird looks ratty because of pin feathers falling out, or not having all the color the bird should have. This is evident from quite a few of the mount pictures that people post. For me though, unless a bird is a 90% or more of being prime, I will not mount it. I like having the memory of a bird, but also like to collect. I have no interested in a 25% colored up ruddy when I know what a good one looks like. To me it is all part of the challenge to harvest nice birds. Plus, I know enough of what a nice bird is that I would not be happy with less. Heck after 25 years of duck hunting and countless blue bills being killed, it wasn't until this year that I finally harvested one that is boarder line mount quality.

It's all a matter of choice, but I would think most would consider a "mountable" bird to be one that is in prime color with little or no pin feathers.


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## Shlwego (Sep 13, 2006)

TSS Caddis said:


> It's all a matter of choice, but I would think most would consider a "mountable" bird to be one that is in prime color with little or no pin feathers.


I personally agree with you. But one of my hunting partners has a completely different philosophy. He has the first bird of every species he takes mounted. For him, that's what it means to "collect." They're not the prettiest birds you'll see, but each one has a special memory to him. To each his own, and like you say it's a matter of choice. Over the years, I have taken many birds that I consider mountable specimens, and yet until this past season I had never bothered to have a single one mounted. But I finally broke down and decided to get a pair of late season wigeon done.


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## gotduksikness (Nov 22, 2005)

i mount my own birds so mounting a bird thats less than perfect isnt a problem for me at all. If its sentimental ill mount it. I mounted the first green head i ever shot and the first canada i ever shot. Ive mounted a green wing drake and a sweet woody. So if i get a less than perfect drake ruddy, guess what. And that banded cinny for sure. Ive got a hen hoody im getting ready to mount and a very nice black duck im going to mount though less than perfect its very nice.Heres the green head


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## Ieatantlers (Oct 7, 2008)

gotduksikness said:


> i mount my own birds so mounting a bird thats less than perfect isnt a problem for me at all. If its sentimental ill mount it. I mounted the first green head i ever shot and the first canada i ever shot. Ive mounted a green wing drake and a sweet woody. So if i get a less than perfect drake ruddy, guess what. And that banded cinny for sure. Ive got a hen hoody im getting ready to mount and a very nice black duck im going to mount though less than perfect its very nice.Heres the green head


If you shoot that banded cinny, you might want to bring it to a professional.:lol:


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## steelsetter (Dec 14, 2003)

TSS Caddis said:


> I'll rephrase then, since a lot of people don't know what a mountable bird looks like, or don't care. IMO, most do care, they just do not know.
> 
> It's all a matter of choice, but I would think most would consider a "mountable" bird to be one that is in prime color with little or no pin feathers.


birds to be mounted for the memories of the hunt alone...

If you got the cash, who should judge what another deems mountable or not???

Hell, I have been thinking about having one of my current dogs mounted when the time comes.

And I can dam well tell you he is not the PRIME of his breed. :lol:

But he means a whole lot to me....


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## gotduksikness (Nov 22, 2005)

Ieatantlers said:


> If you shoot that banded cinny, you might want to bring it to a professional.:lol:


Yeah yeah i know its nothing special, but then again if havent seen many of the mounts of hunters that did their own. Not only is it the first green head i shot but i mounted it so it means alot to me. Its gotten much better since this one. And I wont mount small birds anymore they're a bitch and big geese very time consuming, also a bitch for that reason. Frustration sets in quick.


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## duckbuster808 (Sep 9, 2005)

My first mallard mount I did looks like that.....they only get better from there, you just have to work at it and not give up....


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

gotduksikness said:


> i mount my own birds so mounting a bird thats less than perfect isnt a problem for me at all. If its sentimental ill mount it. I mounted the first green head i ever shot and the first canada i ever shot. Ive mounted a green wing drake and a sweet woody. So if i get a less than perfect drake ruddy, guess what. And that banded cinny for sure. Ive got a hen hoody im getting ready to mount and a very nice black duck im going to mount though less than perfect its very nice.Heres the green head


:lol: Heck, if I knew how to mount birds, the house would be full of them! But shelling out the cash makes it a lot easier for me to be picky.


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## MarketHunter (Jun 24, 2009)

A friend who hunts on the St. Clair Flats killed a Harlequin drake (decent plumage) a few seasons ago. I've seen it mounted in his cabin on the Island. Some other friends looked at one through a bird watchers telescope two seasons ago on the St. Clair River.

I've never seen a Cinnammon anywhere except Argentina and only a couple there which I promptly missed. I've only ever hunted the U.S. West Coast during late season in Oregon and they're long gone by then.

Even opening weekend in South Louisiana (late November) there will only be a few bluewings that you can start to begin seeing drake plumage on but for the most part they're still all brown. I tried to post a pic of a bunch we shot down there a few years ago but I can't until I've done 15 postings apparently.

I've seen some drake ruddies shot when they first start showing up in the fall on the Canadian side of Lake St. Clair that still have blue bills and some red plumage. But they're well into their eclipse change even that early in the season. Decoying they look pretty bright, but in hand they're definitely well into the dark phase.


Destry


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## waxico (Jan 21, 2008)

Welcome aboard, MarketHunter. It sounds like you and I chew the same dirt.
I have seen what you described, but I got my Cinnamon, in Los Banos, CA.

I'm a little dubious about a Harlequin, but, then again, I saw a mounted Common Eider at Mallard Point when I went to say hi to Lloyd, shot in Mitchell's.

And, dad's friend waxed an Atlantic Brant in Anchor Bay 20 years ago, so you never can tell what's ahnging at the end of your barrrel


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## mudchucker09 (Jun 2, 2009)

i worked for the D.N.R. wildlife Divs. for 7 years. i have seen lots of ducks that you wouldn't believe that would be here. Out on the areas refuges you see all kinds of ducks. 
it is one of those things that if you dont see it your self it is bs. if fact there were cinm. teal out at fish point 2 years ago. and if you are looking for looking for a drake ruddy come up to sebewaing in oct they are every where. i have permission for a big pond that has some on there every year. ALso last year a buddy of mine shot a long tail out in the bay and got that mounted. the tail was not really long but the got it and people say that there is no long tails here.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

mudchucker09 said:


> ALso last year a buddy of mine shot a long tail out in the bay and got that mounted. the tail was not really long but the got it and people say that there is no long tails here.


caddis has been specifically targeting longtails for couple years now on the bay.....been limiting on them a few times.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> caddis has been specifically targeting longtails for couple years now on the bay.....been limiting on them a few times.


hey, that just gave me another idea for the name of that pontoon of yurs...."chasin tails" :evilsmile True on many accounts I imagine


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Speaking of the pontoon, you'd probably draw in all sort of mallards if you setup a grill in the front along with a picnic table and colman cooler.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

just ducky said:


> hey, that just gave me another idea for the name of that pontoon of yurs...."chasin tails" :evilsmile True on many accounts I imagine


 
I thought he settled on *FA-Q *????


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

TSS Caddis said:


> Speaking of the pontoon, you'd probably draw in all sort of mallards if you setup a grill in the front along with a picnic table and colman cooler.


we repainted it to look like a giant doritos bag. ranch flavor.


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## waterfowlhunter83 (Aug 10, 2005)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> we repainted it to look like a giant doritos bag. ranch flavor.


I prefer a bag of Wonderbread...


Chad


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

I have a couple toddlers I can rent you as decoys. Put a cheerios box in their hands and they are irresistable to mallards.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

do you rent golf clubs to hit them over the head with too? :lol:


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## MarketHunter (Jun 24, 2009)

Waxico,

Yeah, sounds like we shoot the same areas, probably have seen one another around the boat ramps.

I've seen the mounted Harlequin, he's even got a brass plate on the base saying where and when it was shot. He said he saw another one last season along the breakwall near his cottage.

There are Atlantic Brant killed every season on Lake St. Peter in Quebec and that's a long way from the coast. The sinkbox hunters get them, not a lot, but enough that it's not considered too rare. As the brant flys, that's not too far away really.

Mudchucker,

I missed a drake oldsquaw (longtail) on Lake St. Clair four seasons ago. We'd just shot into a group of cans and everybody was empty. The duck decoyed as I was standing up reloading, I managed to drop a shell into one barrel and took a quick pop but missed it clean. I've seen at least one kind of scoter out there as well, the boys shot some out of my sneak boat one day I wasn't there last two seasons ago.

Does this seem like a common thread with me? They killed them when I wasn't there or I missed them..... *argh*


Regards,
Destry


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## duckbuster808 (Sep 9, 2005)

mudchucker09 said:


> i worked for the D.N.R. wildlife Divs. for 7 years. i have seen lots of ducks that you wouldn't believe that would be here. Out on the areas refuges you see all kinds of ducks.
> it is one of those things that if you dont see it your self it is bs. if fact there were cinm. teal out at fish point 2 years ago. and if you are looking for looking for a drake ruddy come up to sebewaing in oct they are every where. i have permission for a big pond that has some on there every year. ALso last year a buddy of mine shot a long tail out in the bay and got that mounted. the tail was not really long but the got it and people say that there is no long tails here.


 
Not sure who you are talking to that says they aren't here but they most deff. are lol...it's all a matter of finding them, and when you do, there are usually plenty to go around...I've also seen Scoter's shot on the bay as well.....it seems like the birds shift a little more into michigan each year, but that might just be me


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## wavie (Feb 2, 2004)

MarketHunter said:


> There are Atlantic Brant killed every season on Lake St. Peter in Quebec and that's a long way from the coast.


I think you mean Lac St. Pierre. We used to see many flocks of Brant following the Ottawa river the end of Sept and early Oct, they would even stage is small numbers. Friends still shoot them every year and refer to them as other geese. 

As far as long tails, they were always are bread and butter a week before freeze up hunting a large inland lake. Some were looking very good on Dec 20th.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

mudchucker09 said:


> ALso last year a buddy of mine shot a long tail out in the bay and got that mounted. the tail was not really long but the got it and people say that there is no long tails here.


Those people are correct. No long tails in Michigan, so just move along:lol:

No scoter either.

If you want to shoot them, I have a guide in Maine I can recommend.


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## Shlwego (Sep 13, 2006)

TSS Caddis said:


> Those people are correct. No long tails in Michigan, so just move along:lol:
> 
> No scoter either.
> 
> If you want to shoot them, I have a guide in Maine I can recommend.


Now that's funny! :evilsmile


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## MarketHunter (Jun 24, 2009)

Lake St. Peter would be the English translation of Lac Saint-Pierre if that's what you mean.


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## raisinrat (Feb 9, 2006)

He its been sometime since I have posted on here.(this post maybe a little late)

But I would also like to point out that Cinny sometimes make there way this way.Just like Oldsqaws, Scoters, and other coastal ducks.

A guy that I use to work with got one in the UP he had pics and the bird mounted. They use to see at least one flock every year, up until a few years ago. 

The more days your in the field the more chances you have to see things like this.

So give some people the benefit of the doubt, and say cool ok and move on.


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