# Wolves or Wolverines?



## Dawg (Jan 17, 2003)

There are many people who think the southern lower is too populated for deer. People want country living with all the city conveniences so we spread the urban blight around and destroy habitat.

Leave wild animals in the wild. If it gets too scary there's still lots of apartments in the city.


----------



## GSP2 (Aug 6, 2003)

If the introduction happens naturally leave it alone. Michigan should not be proactive in relocating wolves and wolverines. First thought that comes to mind is that it will artifically upset the balance nature has found between predator and prey since these animals have been absent from Michigan.

I also don't need more competition in finding good grouse territory.


----------



## Buddy Lee (Dec 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Dawg _
> *There are many people who think the southern lower is too populated for deer. People want country living with all the city conveniences so we spread the urban blight around and destroy habitat.
> 
> Leave wild animals in the wild. If it gets too scary there's still lots of apartments in the city. *


Amen.


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

> If the introduction happens naturally leave it alone. Michigan should not be proactive in relocating wolves and wolverines.


Does that include turkeys, elk and moose? Of course the wolverine, wolf or cougar has not been introduced, at least by the state, maybe by some individuals though.


----------



## trout (Jan 17, 2000)

Hey you forgot the Kings and Browns and Steelies


----------



## stevebrandle (Jan 23, 2000)

Unlike the wolves, this wolverine is probably the only one in the State and won't be able to reproduce. 

Wolves, on the other hand, are reproducing very well in the U.P. Our newsletter for The Hiawatha Sportsman's Club this month reported that we now have a pack of about ten wolves using the club land. Two members trapping coyote on the club have incidentally caught four wolves in a three week period. The DNR placed tracking collars on all of them and now six of the ten are collared. It's the club's hope that our cooperation with the DNR will speed up the process of delisting the wolf.


----------



## whitedog (May 11, 2003)

i belive it would be stupid to try to get a stable number of wolverines, just like how damn stupid it is to have wolves here in michigan we dont need either and dont have room for either i can tell yall for sure wolves kill people i will have to do some research into wolverines to see if they attack humans and if they kill humans as do the wolves, people wake up wolves kill humans, and wolves kill for the fun of it just to many arm chair experts in here that truly dont have a clue of what there saying, hey yall hear about the wolf hit by a snowsled on turner road west of rudyard if the person that hit the wolf reads this let me know ill buy you a tank of gas for your snowsled and congrats on the hit


----------



## Dawg (Jan 17, 2003)

The following was copied from an 'anti-wolf' site and is the most comprehensive listing of it's kind that I found. It covers the past 173 years and describes one account of a human fatality attributed to wolves in 1830. By comparison there were 4 fatalities in 2001 from party balloons.

"It has been widely discussed whether a healthy wild wolf has ever attacked a human on this continent. In fact, many say such attacks have never occurred in North America. HISTORY STATES OTHERWISE!_ It depends on what century you want to research wolves attacking and killing humans, 1800's, 1900's or 2000's. Noted naturalist, John James Audubon, of whom the Audubon society is named, reported an attack involving two black men traveling through part of Kentucky near the Ohio border in the winter. The two men were carry axes when they were viciously attacked by a pack of wolves one man was severely wounded and one man was killed, this occurred about 1830 ( Audubon,J.J.. and Bachman,J,: The Quadrupeds of North America. 3 volumes. New York, 1851-1854)_

In northwestern Colorado, an 18-year-old girl was viciously attacked while bringing in milk cows, she screamed and her brother, who was nearby armed with a gun responded to the scene and killed the Wolf. The wolf was a healthy young animal barely full-grown. This occurred in the summer about 1881 ( Grinnell,G.B; The Trail and Campfire- Wolves and Wolf Nature, New York, 1897)_

In1942, Michael Dusiak, section foreman for the Canadian Pacific Railway, was attacked by a wolf, the wolf was killed by the trains engineer, and a firemen with picks and other tools. It should be noted that this wolf was scanned and inspected by an Investigator Chrichton, a Conservation Officer. His assessment was the animal was young healthy and in good condition. ( " A Record of Timber Wolf Attacking Man"Journal Of Mammology, Vol. 28, No. 3, August 1947)_

(Here are) some examples from British Columbia. Wolves overran Vancouver Island in the 1980's. Attacks became so common that articles were published in Canadian magazines documenting such attacks. Aug., 1987 a 16-year-old girl was bitten by a wolf in Algonquin Provincial Park in Ontario, she was bitten on the arm, clothing prevented severe lacerations. The wolf was shot by the Natural Resources personnel and tested negative for rabies. (Interview with Ron Tozer, Park Naturalist for Algonquin Provincial Park, July 25, 1988)_

In August, 1996 eleven-year-old Zack Delventhal was viciously attacked, the boys face had been ripped open, his nose was crushed, parts of his mouth and right cheek were torn. Blood gushed from puncture wounds below his eyes, and the lower part of his right ear was missing and dangling. The wolf was killed by Park authorities and found to be a young healthy adult male wolf ( Cook, Kathy; " Night of the Wolf " Readers Digest, July 1997 p. pp. 114-119)_

(In) Sports Afield Magazine, December 2000 January 2001 issue turn to page 21 you will see a picture of a six-year-old boy lying in a hospital bed viciously attacked by a healthy male wolf._ It was killed by loggers near his camp. Also this same article reports a 22-year-old man in his sleeping bag on a beach near Vancouver BC he was also viciously attacked by a healthy male wolf, the wolf was killed by Canadian officials."

This argument is based and perpetuated on hysteria. In fact the site was headlined by a Samuel Adams quote: "It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." I would suggest that this tireless minority consists of "arm chair experts...that truly dont have a clue of what there (they're) saying."


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Excellent post Dawg.


----------



## Sailor (Jan 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by miturkey
> I saw one up bye irons MI about 20 years ago we had to stop the car so it could cross the road so I believe there is a chance that there are some in MI.
> 
> In 1997 while turkey hunting at a friends
> ...


----------



## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

I don't think you'll find many yoopers that really worry about a person getting killed by a wolf, so that really isn't a non-issue, but you can find lots concern over the destruction of wildlife populations in pockets across the U.P. I find it interesting how those who live outside of the U.P. find it so acceptably conveniant to have burgeoning and uncontrolled wolf populations in areas they don't live themselves. As I've said before, a wolf is a great and mysterious animal to have as a part of the U.P. wildlife, but not in unchecked and uncontrolled numbers in an environment of shrinking deer habitat(winter), displaced wintering populations, and low deer numbers in northern portions of the U.P.


I'd love to see one someday, but not on my property.


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

I agree with you NorthJeff in that a population of any wild animal or bird should not go uncontrolled. That means raccoons, beaver, deer or wolves. That is where the different opinions come into play. What is the proper number we should have? I don't recall anyone on this site at all that has made a statement that we should never control a population of one speices or another.


----------



## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

I would think the proper number would be a number that allows for a sustainable population, and that's it, with a defined harvest quota and special permits to remove the excess, monitored very closely by DNR wildlife officials. 

In my opinion we are over sustainable numbers right now and are in need of a harvest. Unfortunately, before that ever takes place, local deer numbers can be drastically reduced in an environment that is most likely one of the slowest to recover in the country.


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Like I said, "That is where the different opinions come into play."


----------



## Eastern Yooper (Nov 12, 2000)

35.

Thats the number of people that were murdered in Detroit during the month of January of this year.

Yet some people are worried and preaching about the dangers of being attacked and/or killed by wolves and wolverines?!?

I just don't get it.


----------



## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

Like I said, I don't think most that live in the U.P. are actually worried about being attacked. I walk sometimes a mile in the middle of the night, after working on my fields, back to the house without a flashlight, let alone a gun, through the woods. I personally don't worry at all about being attacked by anything, but I do fear for my dogs and the deer.

Dogs and deer, that's all I worry about right now.


----------



## FixedBlade (Oct 14, 2002)

Wolverines were never a native species in Mi and never sholud be. We have too many non-native species now.


----------



## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

Are Spartans and never should be ! 

  

Don't tell my daughter that - 

ferg....
MSU Class of 2002


----------



## WAUB-MUKWA (Dec 13, 2003)

Does anybody know when the DNR is going to decrease the population from what they said last year. I heard there was 350 plus wolves, and thought they said they were going to cull them down to 200. I would say the packs have grown considerably since last year. There could possibly be over 400 now. Minnesota has 2,500 and wisconsin is said to have over 500. Wisconsin just culled 14 this winter.


----------



## Bailey (Apr 28, 2001)

They have started. I don't know how many but it is not enough.


----------



## Lil' Tanker (Jan 9, 2002)

bring on the wolverines. it would be really cool they could eat the 7 remaining pheasants here in the thumb.

the farmers have killed their share by destroying all of the fencerows.
the coyotes have killed their share and then some

why not let the wolverines finish them off 

it would be so cool to walk all day pheasant hunting and not see a thing as opposed to now a days when you can see 3 in a good day.


----------



## Hunter333 (Jan 19, 2000)

Bushwhacker.....According to my 4th grade (the greade I teach)social studies book, Michigan got its name from people in the Ohio military. Soldiers from Michigan and Ohio were having a "war" over Toledo in 1836. Those from Ohio said that the Michiganians were so ferocious that they compared them to wolverines. Funny thing about the war, no shots were fired and Congress gave Toledo to Ohio so that we could have the ENTIRE UP!! I think we got the better end of the deal


----------



## Bushwhacker (Jan 21, 2000)

Hunter 333,
You are probably correct, I'm not going to argue with a Fourth Grade Social Studies book.There are probably other stories about it also. Still, I don't think there were ever any wolverines of the four legged type, in the state.
Bushwhacker


----------



## Hunter333 (Jan 19, 2000)

Bush.... just passing along some info... When this wolverine was seen, I heard on the radio that there "havent been wolverines in MI since the the 1800's..." But I was under the thought that they have never been here. Hmmm, time to assign a research project to one of my younguns


----------



## WAUB-MUKWA (Dec 13, 2003)

I heard that the name wolverine state came from the fur traders bringing all the wolverine pelts here to sell off to the american and hudson bay fur companies.


----------



## perry l. rankin (Sep 7, 2003)

at least 1 person in this thread has said that wolverines are not native to michigan. even steve brandle thinks there's only 1.(sorry steve!!!) my point being how the heck do we know. i don't believe that we should be picking and choosing which animals were or are native to this state, but managing more closely the ones that are here now. i find it discouraging that the only peoples word we can believe is a gov't employee. if my neighbor ned seen a wolverine we would dismiss him as crazy. if your neighbor netty see a cougar she's mis informed. i know it's going out on a limb, but when my buddy esox tells me he seen a bobcat where noone else has for 110 years i believe him. maybe i'm naive, maybe not.


----------



## Rocker53 (Jan 23, 2004)

Wolverines can and will kill anything in site, they are nasty, and feriocious and I would personally not like to be locked in a cage with one. We had a discusion in my 12th grade Conservation class about this very same topic and we all agreed that the introduction of such an animal to our ecosystem would not be good. For one thing, they cover huge tracts of lands something like 1 million acres in a day, they also have a nasty attitude and will attack humans. It'd also be a wasted effort as they would most likely turn out to be like the Mountain Lions in California, Coyotes basically everywhere and enter our food rich suburbs and threaten children, the elderly, and all size pets. The public would cry for help and they would have to be exterminated. Not a great thing.


----------



## stevebrandle (Jan 23, 2000)

If that wolverine had been found in the U.P., I'd say there might be more of them. But, in the thumb???? These animals are wilderness types and I have to believe it was an isolated case. Who can say for sure?


----------



## Rakassan101 (Aug 27, 2003)

I've lost track of it, nothing in the papers lately. What has become of our wolverine in the thumb?


----------



## LandBarge (Jan 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by boehr _
> *I agree with you NorthJeff in that a population of any wild animal or bird should not go uncontrolled. That means raccoons, beaver, deer or wolves. That is where the different opinions come into play. What is the proper number we should have? I don't recall anyone on this site at all that has made a statement that we should never control a population of one speices or another. *


deer in the LP and ship them off to the UP. Better wolf food than cows, pigs, sheep, or dogs. Plus it gives all you UP hunters some deer to hunt. **PLUS** it gets rid some of the dang things we're plagued with down here under da bridge. Jeez! Four deer in five years...and three of them with the same truck!


----------



## Bailey (Apr 28, 2001)

My mother hit 2 deer in one week. 7 in 5 years. Her bronco had minimum damage. I had her switch to some tire's that had a hum to them and she went 3 years without hitting one. The whistles for the cars do not work, they call deer great!


----------



## LandBarge (Jan 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by BeaverPilot _
> *I lived near them, watched them, arial hunted them, and have seen what they can do to a moose population in a valley if protected for more than a few years. *


Tell me if I'm wrong but isn't this when you ride in an airplane, drive the animals from their cover, then shoot them indiscriminately? Kinda like buffalo hunting from trains? How does the successful "hunter" retrieve his kill? What about the wounded? Just left to die and rot? Just curious where the word "hunting" comes into play here. Wouldn't "extermination" be more fitting? 

If I have this all wrong, please correct me because I'd hate to think a sportsman would engage in what I have been told describes arial wolf hunting.


----------



## REX EBNIT (Apr 5, 2004)

Linda G. said:


> I don't believe wolves kill for fun, or because someone made them mad. From what I understand, wolverines do.
> 
> They're giant weasels, same family, and there are a lot of us who have a real healthy respect for their relatives, the ermine, and other weasels like mink that are 1/18 the size of a wolverine. Like weasels, wolverines aren't afraid of anything, and that includes man. Wolverines are true wilderness creatures that don't seek the company of man in any way, but there are many, many documented accounts of wolverines attacking people they've encountered in the wilderness of Canada and Alaska.
> 
> ...


xxxarial narrow :lol: :lol:


----------



## REX EBNIT (Apr 5, 2004)

Hey ,I got great respect for my fellow sports-persons...but .do you really believe these wolves just walked in?????


----------



## WAUB-MUKWA (Dec 13, 2003)

Sure they just walked in. Its nothing but pure wilderness up here. Some might have been planted from another location caught in wisconsin from government trappers or reservation land but most did just walk in.


----------



## REX EBNIT (Apr 5, 2004)

I know and do agree that quite a few walked in.i had property on the edge of a very large swamp in Chip.County and we had a population that migrated from Canada.But the fact remains they were given a boost in the UP,and collared.tagged and watched...But I do believe its time they are taken off the endangered spices before its to late.Lets trim a few of these preditors legally.   :yikes:


----------



## dogjaw (Nov 8, 2000)

Bushwhacker said:


> Linda,
> This certainly is interesting. Just a few facts that you might be interested in though. Wolverines were never further east in Ontario than the NW part. We ( the Ontario MNR) live trapped two this year in the Dryden area just east of the Manitoba border, and that was the furthest east they were ever recorded. So I don't think this guy came from Canada, at least not in any garbage truck from Toronto or across the ice from anywhere. He must be an escapee from some roadside wildlife tourist trap. From what I've ever heard, Michigan never had any wild wolverines either, it got it's name "The Wolverine State" from when the pelts used to pass through Michilimanckinac from western Canada on there way to Montreal. We've got lots of wolves, lynx, fisher, martin, and moose in this area but no wolverine. I doubt that this guy will make it long down there before someone pops him, but it makes great press.
> I agree that your wolves were never introduced, we sent you moose for some turkeys, but no wolves. Keep up the good work, I enjoy your threads.
> Bushwhacker


I was thinking the same thing. The wolverine is not native to Michigan. They're nasty animals and sure as heck don't belong here.


----------



## vancreek (Apr 4, 2004)

rex ebnit,as of this year the wolf in michigan is no longer endangered but has rather been reclassified as protected,hopefully,next year they will no longer be protected,the federal government will turn over management to the state dnr and they will manage the population with sound scientific data to control the population and desiginate a specific hunting season with harvest quotas,and provide michigan residents with the oppertunity to harvest them.


----------



## Rudi's Dad (May 4, 2004)

Enough already of the do gooders with wolves, wolverines and now mountain lions. Nothing along these lines should be reintroduced in the lower. Its bad enough to wonder if your bird dog is going to wind up in a wollf ambush in the U.P. Talk to the locals up there, most of them will be the first to say wolves were a bad idea up there too.


----------



## wecker20 (Mar 10, 2004)

I don't think wolverines will ever be introduced to Michigan because of humans. Watched a show on the Discovery channel and these things hate people and anything else that bothers them. They have been pushed farther north(Canada) and to areas where they are less disturbed to get away from us. They are very interesting animals and I haven't seen or read a whole lot of info. on the critters.


----------

