# Managed waterfowl hunt area planning effort begins - Is this how the anti-hunters get their foot in the door?



## Brougham (Jan 29, 2010)

Loved DirtyCuffs solution. A little effort. Go find it. You'll eliminate a lot of B.S. and increase hunt satisfaction. 
Like the pick-up ball games we put together as kids. We didn't rely on someone else to structure it for us.


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

I was selected to participate for Harsen's Island Wednesday 13th

I am not sure where the discussion will head
i am not sure what your ideas/concerns/recommendations are
i am not sure if i will agree with yours
but i might be able to let you know anything i find that pertains to anything you mention
and will try to provide a recap, if permitted to do so


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## greatprohunter (Jul 25, 2001)

Unfortunately these random DNR selections allow the Anits to voice opinions on a managed waterfowl hunting areas . 
Now is the time for the hunters of these areas to make a stand and be proactive in the management of the areas along with the mdnr . Doing work days , and have a share holders share expense to help that areas is a must with crops , parking lots and launches just to name a few . 
Get with your area managers and see what is out there as a group of users to help and protect the managed waterfowl areas. 

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

if they chose me because I was an anti, they are in for a big f'in surprise!


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## greatprohunter (Jul 25, 2001)

Perfect!!

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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## Urriah (Jul 26, 2013)

greatprohunter said:


> Perfect!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


There are three different focus groups happening. One targeting waterfowl hunters, one targeting non-waterfowl hunters (but including trappers, deer hunters, pheasant hunters, birdwatchers) and one just for the various supporting clubs.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

craigrh13 said:


> Well. I inquired to some individuals in the DNR about this issue. I won’t give any names but here is their general answer.
> 
> “Well, the Dnr wildlife division manages natural resource for all citizens. That’s been the mission statement for a long time.”
> 
> ...


you use "corn for bait on this board worse then managed areas use it for waterfowl.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> you use "corn for bait on this board worse then managed areas use it for waterfowl.


Come again?


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## Sampsons_owner (Dec 30, 2005)

TheHighLIfe said:


> I was selected to participate for Harsen's Island Wednesday 13th


How did the meeting go? Steve


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> you use "corn for bait on this board worse then managed areas use it for waterfowl.


Coooooooome on, Daaaaaaaaan. Whatcha trying to say???


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

Sampsons_owner said:


> How did the meeting go? Steve


Hi steve, et all...

apologies for the delay, just got back from downstate

here is a recap, hoping I have properly captured the highlights

15 were selected, 9 were expected, 8 showed up, all guys

split fairly evenly among some younger guys who just took up the sport a few years ago (prior hunting of deer, pheasant..), others who have experience in the 10-30 year range, and some 'old timers' who started hunting Harsen's Island in the 60s, well before it became a managed area. this last group was the wisest by far - haha.

the group was also split between 'conversation carriers', those with occasional input, and those 'there to listen'. the moderators did a good job of trying to engage the listeners. myself and another are lifetime members of HIWA. half the group had experience at other 7 Wetland Wonders, half the group had participated in banding efforts.

2 women from the dnr wildlife division were there to moderate and tape record the meeting.
they explained there are 7 groups assembled for input, they were going to bay city the next night for a similar group.
most groups are focused on the managed areas regarding hunting/draws, the objective is for lansing to develop a recreation management 10 year plan. they thought there might be one group giving input pertaining to non-hunting uses, but this group, and others, were to seek info on the waterfowl end of things.

we focused on the Harsen's Island management unit mostly, but one of the new hunters had more experience with st johns marsh, so he had a lot of input on that. a few of us have experience with pt mouillee, so they wanted a brief overview of that managed area.

in discussing these areas, discussion naturally had some flow to how dnr handles the overall management of all areas.

the group was directed to use three questions to drive discussion...
what do you like about the area/experience?
what do you not like about the area/experience?
how would you improve the area/experience?

overall, the conversation varied from the nowadays typical social media conversations in which people have vastly different opinions which flow into debates/arguments and name calling. the group was 'in the same boat' on the majority of topics, additional input was supportive from an additional angle more than headed for a train wreck. there were a few blatantly incorrect comments about data which were insignificant and ignored to not go off topic.

here are the highlights, as noted by the moderator, with my additional personal recap of '2nd tier' highlights.
I am sure I am missing some things, but doubt anything missing is of great significance

what do you like?
overwhelmingly, and unanimously, the #1 comment was the Harsen's Island management personnel.
helpful, professional, well organized, well run.... many knew the names of the crew.
the ability to have 'walople island private club' quality hunting for free.
basically a safe place to hunt, distance between zones and use of buffer strips make it safe (versus st johns)
walk in access to many zones, or access with small boat/trolling motor (walk in days are long gone for me! haha)

what do you not like?
poor signage to get to areas. I didn't think so, but it sure appears valid to the rest of the group, so I yielded
safety issues traveling to, and hunting in, 28-30.
poor corn crop in lower 20s, 1-4, 12, and 28-30 most every year
28-30 no longer being refuge has reduced the quality of hunting in both marshes (only the old timers know this)
east marsh not as productive as it always was (tho I shared my view of improvement in 2021)
removal of the daily zone kill boards. pros and cons stated, talk ended at possibly unfair for weekend hunters.

how would you improve?
corn, corn, corn, and buckwheat, buckwheat. successful plantings to attract migrators and to hide hunters.
many stated the 'deer and goose' excuse for poor corn crops has gotten old. do something.
shave down the dikes at launches, too steep, too slippery, cars in danger of sliding in or having to be towed out.
add lighting to launch areas, a safety issue with dogs, hunters, traffic and convenience to see what you are doing.
move 28-30 back to north end, safer for singles, easy access for the handicapped/elderly, no motor needed, no long drive to a tall wide pullover where there are few people to help in emergency situations.
for 10 year plan, look to add zones - such as 1-4 vertical can be 2 strips of 3 zones (plus buffer strip) if horizontal.
increase CO visitations. too many violations going on - extra shells, over limits, hunters whose name isn't on the card..
reinstate the annual management area use permit to help fund needed improvements
boat size/motor size restrictions due to safety issues (swamping) and destruction of corn/marsh cover to hide in.
better bathrooms.

the moderator's executive summary of highest priority potential improvement categories was, I believe
better access
improved safety
better signage
improved crop management
more zones

while I forgot to bring it up, I will send in an email a suggestion that in 10 years we should be able to execute a plan that will turn st johns into a draw area (to avoid the ferry cost, reduce the Harsen's Island draw numbers, eliminate the st john overcrowding/safety issues, increase waterfowl use, and provide a new management area with hunter monies)

and I also neglected to suggest we find a way to reduce or eradicate phragmites in 10 years - but did so in an email.

I did not bring up removing the 'blocker dike' (that deflects the flight path from the refuge) between 13-17 and 5-12, as I don't know if that is possible or worth the expense/effort.

some improvements seemed to die an early death (probably the meeting lowlights)
erecting blinds in the marsh was suggested
having dnr subsidize part of the ferry crossing fee (fat chance on that one for more than one reason - haha)

additional 'TY hunts' for veterans and disabled veterans days (hunter volunteers to take them out) as exist elsewhere.
one attendee has a disabled father. another pointed out it would be one less day for his hunting. mixed reviews, jury out.

at one point we were asked if there was any conflict between hunters and non-hunting use. the group felt that Harsen's Island was isolated from the public, most islanders are aware that hunting exists. at st johns, occasional issues with bike riders and dog walkers were reported, better/bigger signage was suggested. also suggested was to send flyers to all homes in the area with season dates. this 'wiser guy' warned of that possibly triggering an anti protest on opening day.

we were asked if we used the area for other than hunting. fishing was the #1 answer, per family feud. haha. I guess I should've pointed out that besides waterfowl hunting, I have shot deer and pheasant.

surprisingly, there was no heat in conversations about the draw process. very unified as to 'luck of the draw'. the input...
1) allow singles access to all corn zones
2) 2 draws per day
3) ensure there is no s**t in the game, such as staff drawn early, groups with multiple chances, hunters not on the card
4) draw balls, no envelopes! (it was said staff can put their own number high in all envelopes, not sure that's the case)
5) no 2nd weekend permit draw. only about 50% of permits were used but cost all one weekend of potential use.
6) never go to pre-draw for every day of the season permits

as to st johns, most input was of 'what do you not like?' variety - overcrowding, safety, fear of getting shot...
as to pt mouillee, there was appreciation for the additional corn strips that were added, but the rest of the input was of 'what do you not like?' variety - poorly run, terrible corn crops/excuses year after year, really long walks to most areas, water so deep in the marsh for 'walk ins' that dogs will drown unless they find a muskrat hut, no need for waist deep water in the marsh, insane that the public zones are shoulder deep when they used to be walk in areas, yet is water controlled. it was mentioned 'the word on the street is don't go there'.

from this point in time, there will be a recap, a blending of input from all groups, followed by setting overall objectives, a request for input on the objectives, updates sent out, then a written strategic plan drafted with volunteers' names, unless preferring to be anonymous.

well, this is from the horse's mouth.
I hope I did justice to the conversation.
and hope no one thinks it is from the other end of the horse! haha

Don


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## JackAm (Aug 25, 2007)

I submitted to go and was not chosen. Makes me sick to hear of the No-shows.
Thanks for the GREAT report. You did a wonderful job!


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## Urriah (Jul 26, 2013)

Thanks for the report Don. I've been curious how it went.


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## dankoustas (Sep 18, 2007)

Great Summary Don!!


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

It will be interesting to see how the drastic increases costs in planting will impact the managed areas. Fertilizer and seed costs have went up substantially. Corn was already expensive to plant. It’s cost have went up a good bit this year and are showing no signs of reversing. I know Shi doesn’t plant as much as they used to thanks to moist soils being incorporated into the zones.

This year the cost to plant an acre of corn is projected to average $1046 which is $150 more an acre than last years record prices. The break even point for corn is currently $4.73/bushel.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

I know they have tried to push uniformity across all areas but in many aspects you can’t. Every area has unique characteristics and challenges that set it apart from other areas.


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

I missed the HIWA meeting, but have been told by a handful that reported at the meeting that while fertilizer costs will increase to 60,000 ish, last year's corn was sold for over 120,000.

over the decades one thing has been repetitively obvious...
water levels go down, water levels come up (ND drought mapping dropped by perhaps 75% in the last 2 weeks)
corn prices go up, corn prices go down
'no relief in sight' sometimes comes quickly
'relief in sight' sometimes gets delayed
moving the season back a week sometimes results in a week lost due to freeze up
moving the season up a week sometimes results in suntans (or an October snowfall)

we will never have any one decade in which the moon and the stars will line up perfectly every year
no one year will be perfect either
if those are your expectations, don't cause yourself to lose your future seasons - stress kills


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

TheHighLIfe said:


> I missed the HIWA meeting, but have been told by a handful that reported at the meeting that while fertilizer costs will increase to 60,000 ish, last year's corn was sold for over 120,000.
> 
> over the decades one thing has been repetitively obvious...
> water levels go down, water levels come up (ND drought mapping dropped by perhaps 75% in the last 2 weeks)
> ...


The point I was getting at is I wonder what the breaking point is for tax payer funded food plantings for holding and hunting birds. Especially a crop that although is very effective and loved by the birds is not even needed in their diet.


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

Hi craig

I understand your point, and it is a very valid one

those wetlands wonders that do not have a local group supporting it to make up for deficits when expenses are high will hurt during times of commodity inflation. I spoke with a rep from another one of the 7 dnr input groups and learned they do not have local support - and how bleak things might be for them this year due to high costs

my post was to convey the Harsen's Island situation to bring relief to people
and further relief in that everything has ebbs and flows, make it thru tough times and things will eventually adjust

apologies if my words seemed meant to deny your valid comments - not!
we usually are on the same page, and we are on this subject

Don


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

TheHighLIfe said:


> Hi craig
> 
> I understand your point, and it is a very valid one
> 
> ...


Nah, man. It’s all good. I just think some people take these areas for granted. Not realizing all that goes into it. Yes, the clubs help out a lot. However, they can only help so much. These managed areas aren’t “money makers” in the eyes of the bean counters. In fact, they are expensive to operate. I believe some individuals need to realize that or put it into perspective when they are hell bent on filling these areas with a very expensive crop that per science and biologists just simply isn’t needed…..however, it does provide some better hunting. 

Another reason I like that you all supported the old $11/season fee to hunt the managed areas. It most definitely should come back and that money should most definitely stay within the managed areas budgets. Not to mention that should provide more data on just how many different hunters actually hunt these areas.


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