# Type 3 & Browns ?s



## B.Jarvinen (Jul 12, 2014)

It's that slightly deflating time of year after Type 1 has just closed. I had a wonderful close-of-season run with some neat experiences I will share soon. 

But right now I am really looking forward to a hike-in, climb out excursion on a Type 3 the next time it rains here (west U.P.), probably Wed. or Thur. 

I want to catch a nice Brown. And I want to keep it. Because I want to get some spawn. Usually I release most Trout over 10", would rather keep 9s for a meal. 

I caught a nice Brown in the headwaters of the Pere Marquette last year on Labor Day and it had some nice spawn. But I've heard different things about when they spawn - is it different in different places? Different strains?

How can you tell female/male Brown Trout?

Let's say I get a nice 15+ legal female and haul it up outta there ... should I fillet it? (Males will be digital photo only, or large Brookies, no money to preserve a trophy right now though I hear they exist in there). 

I do have some Brookie spawn to tie up from a couple hook-swallowers the other day. (Best was a male 14 that went back in). Could be a fun way to fish the pools. Won't be fly fishing but will be trying most spinning rod techniques. Probably not any worms though - stay away little Trout. 

What have your experiences been on Type 3 water?


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## PunyTrout (Mar 23, 2007)

B.Jarvinen said:


> How can you tell female/male Brown Trout?


Most will tell you to look for a Kype jaw to identify the males. But some female Browns and Steelhead develop a slight Kype as well. Try studying the anal fin instead, If the anal fin is slightly concave (curving in), it's a female. If the anal fin is slightly convex (curving out) it's a male.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Right now I would target coho or pinks if you are after spawn. Unless it is a very silver fish I release all of my kings as of Oct 1. I prefer to let them spawn.


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## Benzie Rover (Mar 17, 2008)

Coho/Pink spawn is the way to go - they will die after spawning anyway. Trout will continue to reproduce year after year. Taking one just for eggs seems like a waste when you have brighter and better eggs available in the salmon anyway. A lethal hooked fish is obviously an exception. It's not hard to differentiate male and female spawners. General body/head and jaw shape will tell you all you need to know. Coloration will also differ slightly.


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## Earl v2.0 (Oct 1, 2016)

PunyTrout said:


> Most will tell you to look for a Kype jaw to identify the males. But some female Browns and Steelhead develop a slight Kype as well. Try studying the anal fin instead, If the anal fin is slightly concave (curving in), it's a female. If the anal fin is slightly convex (curving out) it's a male.


And my wife tells me I'm weird about studying my fish....


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## PunyTrout (Mar 23, 2007)

Earl v2.0 said:


> And my wife tells me I'm weird about studying my fish....


Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words rather than a verbal description...

Male Brown Trout










Female Brown Trout


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## sunup (Oct 28, 2002)

B Jarv.. I met a fisherman below Agate falls the other day who was interested in the Browns. Was that you?


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## B.Jarvinen (Jul 12, 2014)

Yeah, that was me. 2nd trip down there. Thanks for the cured spawn.

I've been working in the west end the last couple weeks with no access to the Pink runs. I wasn't sure if I would have access to a Coho run but whatever you want to use to fish for Browns would obviously work for Cohos (at least ones still feeding).

My first trip was fun. I did see a Salmon with a big chunk bitten out of it, and still full of milt. I thought I would examine in more closely on my way back up-stream to figure out if it was Coho or Chinook, but when I came back up ... it was gone. 









I caught plenty of Brookies, generally ones that would be very nice on a Type 1 stream. Several 10s & 11s, one 12. In the smaller troughs and flats there were a lot of Rainbow smolts. Even one small Pike right at the falls. I never did see any Browns that day. I eventually started to cheat a little, throwing worms into the better holes just to see what all was in this river. That led to the Rainbow smolts, and Suckers, but still no Browns.

On my way out just before dark, I caught this:










About a 14" Rainbow, legal size as that is 10" everywhere. I put it back on my thought that I always put back my first legal fish of the day, and I wouldn't have time to catch another one anyway, and already had dinner plans. But by the next day I regretted it as this stretch is probably fished heavily for Steelhead and this one would surely be caught at that time. (Check the 2015 stocking stats for the Ontonagon - the 2017 or 2018 run should be incredible). Would have made a nice meal.

I do still want some Brown Trout spawn and have no qualms on taking one; I can't even count how many C&R fish I've handled this year, including many 10-12" Brookies the last few days of Type 1 season. I would like to fish it with some friends using Coho spawn side-by-side on the pier later this fall and see what happens.

Overall I found this area close to the Falls a delight to fish but it was clear that so does everyone else - a strong 'Fisherman's Path' for quite a ways down. The climb out is not that bad. There was one beautiful hole that seemed just plain empty of fish - I finally did catch a small Brown out of it on my 2nd trip.

On that one, a few days after my first, I went farther down and found another absolutely perfect Trout hole, complete with overhead Conifer cover, probably a 135º bend easy to swing things through even with spinning tackle. I had already caught several more double digit Brookies that day before I crept up to the tail end of this hole. As I was switching out from trying various spinner blade colors I saw a big fin break the surface - there were Salmon in! 

I stopped fishing and watched for a while. There were several Salmon in the hole. Their fins were all showing white - spawning activity at the end of their long run. I could not draw interest from them on any type of Spinner, Spinner + Crawler, or one of the bags I had just been given from a friendly fellow fisherman. After a while I gave up on the idea of hooking one and decided to try just a plain crawler. And then the fun began - immediately hooking my best Brook Trout of this year - about 14.5" - just not quite legal on this stream. I also caught another 12" out of this hole.

I am hooked on the idea of Type 3 water and will soon be studying some plat maps to look for a good piece of CFR land where I can hike in to this stream and pull out some lunkers next year. I know they will be there, a littler farther from the quick EZ access. A kayaking trip on this water would be incredible, I am sure.

I fished my way back up stream enjoying the Brookie action that would have made for a very very memorable day on a Type 1 stream. But still could not entice any Browns out of this stretch, fishing all the way till I could barely see the ground for my climb back up to the pavement.

Soon enough I will be back in the east end with access to Cohos from all 3 northern Great Lakes....but I will sure miss Type 3 water. I suggested to the DNR last year to figure out somewhere to designate a Type 3 in the east end. Trout populations over there are plenty healthy enough to support one, from what I have seen.

And I do have a short trip to the Keewenaw coming up with my Dad for some family genealogy research. I hope to work in a visit to a BTRA stream, just for practice, and on hopes that the Coasters are starting to grow up...........


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## Falesy (Oct 9, 2008)

PM sent BJ!


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## -Axiom- (Jul 24, 2010)

There is plenty of good fishing to be had in the type 4's also.


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## B.Jarvinen (Jul 12, 2014)

Bump to make it easier to post from phone, where the pictures are...

I hit a Type 3 harbor / river mouth yesterday, had never been there before. It's a pretty short total system with a waterfall just above it, though not as short as another one I visited a few days before that, and had zero fish activity.

I was hoping to hook up with an early Superior Steelhead, the last of the planted Chinok, or a naturally running Coho (though who knows if there will be late Coho this year?), or maybe even that one beautiful fish that is neither a Salmon nor a Trout, that I have heard have been caught in this biggest Superior 'lagoon' I have ever fished.

Instead, I caught these. I was a little surprised with the first one and though it was well over the 15" minimum on a Type 3 right now, I couldn't remember the exact details on that, and I just wasn't that fired up to be cleaning a fish when I would be sleeping outside that night. And I generally always release the first legal fish of the day anyway.

The second one was much nicer and it was then I realized a missed chance - not seen in the photo is a nicely hooked jaw - a spawning Male. I would have liked to harvest a little Brown Trout spawn for future use.

It was a little mysterious fishing - no surface swirls common with Salmon coming in, had no idea of water depths. No action at all on spinners or a heavy twister-tail grub or Rapalas. The harbor itself yielded no activity but I worked upstream till I just pretended it was a small stream and taking a guess on where the deep water was, based on shoreline contours and a few other cues. 

I eventually donated a couple nice specimens from the Acme Tackle Co. (Green-Glo KO Wobbler for first fish, Orange-Glo Kastmaster for second) to whatever is on the bottom of the river, after moving away from "the hole." Not all that deep to be throwing heavy spoons in, but deep is where the Browns hang out. And given the width, I needed the heavy ones to reach the spot I wanted.

And there they were...


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## B.Jarvinen (Jul 12, 2014)

Snow Trout


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## PunyTrout (Mar 23, 2007)

B.Jarvinen said:


> Snow Trout


Success!


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## PunyTrout (Mar 23, 2007)

PunyTrout said:


> Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words rather than a verbal description...


From post #6. The images were lost during the site migration last year. I just thought I would upload them again in case they come in handy for future use.

Female Brown Trout with a concave curve.











Male Brown Trout with a convex curve.


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## B.Jarvinen (Jul 12, 2014)

Those are handy, thanks. The whole subject just wasn’t on my mind at all this year till I caught the male and saw the jaw. 

Probably also not on my mind cuz I still have Coho spawn in the freezer ... which is good because I got back to the east end today and immediately checked all my favorite lagoons and I did see just one Coho, a Ghost Coho listlessly swim-drifting back out across the bar into The Lake. One of the more forlorn fishing sights you will ever see, but only partially, when you think about it. 

But I’m not optimistic on catching any this year, even though at this point last year I would still be hooking them for several weeks yet. 

I will be switching my efforts to hopes for an early Steelhead in bigger holes, down close to The Lake, but it is darn early for that. Though I might try some big water known for Muskies that might pull some Trout out of The Lake ... it has potential spawning tribs. 

And I discovered a point where the DNR stocks Browns - but isn’t a Type 1-4 = open to fishing! I have my technique down, I just hope it has a clean bottom and doesn’t eat into my supply of Cleos too much. 

Maybe if we get a dry period after Turkey Day I can get back to those west end Type 3s ... I am intrigued.


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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

Bottom brown has an adipose clip.


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## PunyTrout (Mar 23, 2007)

ausable_steelhead said:


> Bottom brown has an adipose clip.


Good eyes, AS.

This made me curious. And I did a little research. I am reliably informed that if you catch a Brown Trout or Splake in Lake Superior or a river that empties into it with an adipose fin clip, that those fish were stocked in Wisconsin and have migrated to Michigan waters.


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## zzcop302 (Jun 29, 2013)

PunyTrout said:


> Good eyes, AS.
> 
> This made me curious. And I did a little research. I am reliably informed that if you catch a Brown Trout or Splake in Lake Superior or a river that empties into it with an adipose fin clip, that those fish were stocked in Wisconsin and have migrated to Michigan waters.


That’s amazing.
I didn’t realize a stocked fish would travel that far.


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## B.Jarvinen (Jul 12, 2014)

Hmm, I have been wondering about this - the stocking database for Gogebic Co. shows this black river is stocked annually with Browns. But I can no longer see the stocking point on the little database excerpt it kicks out once you pick dates, water body, etc. 

(Is that website just not showing the stocking point any more, with every web browser? That would be a shame.)

So I don’t know if they stock above the waterfalls in a long Type 2 stretch, or below the waterfalls - a short Type 3 stretch. 

Also, interestingly, in the last three years the DNR has stocked three different strains here. 

I don’t quite understand stocking Browns in the U.P.; I presumed it was done for the Lake Superior fishery and thus below the waterfalls.


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## -Axiom- (Jul 24, 2010)

B.Jarvinen said:


> Hmm, I have been wondering about this - the stocking database for Gogebic Co. shows this black river is stocked annually with Browns. But I can no longer see the stocking point on the little database excerpt it kicks out once you pick dates, water body, etc.
> 
> (Is that website just not showing the stocking point any more, with every web browser? That would be a shame.)
> 
> ...



The stocking database usually has the point & general time they were stocked recorded.


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## PunyTrout (Mar 23, 2007)

B.Jarvinen said:


> I just hope it has a clean bottom and doesn’t eat into my supply of Cleos too much.


I'd be willing to send you some spinners to try. No charge. Just PM me with your mailing address and color and weight preferences.


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## Forest Meister (Mar 7, 2010)

zzcop302 said:


> That’s amazing.
> I didn’t realize a stocked fish would travel that far.


I know of at least two rainbows/steelhead caught in the Sault that had been tagged by the Ontario MNR in Thunder Bay. They could not travel much further than that and still be in Superior. FM


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## B.Jarvinen (Jul 12, 2014)

A Wisconsin fish would not have traveled very far to reach that river.

Thanks for the offer on the spinners; no mailing address right now though. I do think letting a spoon sink got me these fish. I will eventually risk some of my old silver Cleos on that potential stretch of Browns, in between the 2 big tourist waterfalls. I never use my old chrome lures on Great Lakes water any more but in heavy tannic water they should be just the ticket. I have been wanting to try the Blueberry Ale there too. 

I passed on that area for my Snow Day today and wasted the day on hopes of a late Coho or an early Steelhead on a big top-of-Huron trib, one well stocked with lots and lots of Browns every year for some reason. I hit a lot of holes starting at the first one up from the lake, but zilch. A few people out trying the same here and there. Talked fishing with some young guys (like most such guys met fishing the east U.P., were from LSSU) who thought the Cohos were “just coming in at Manistique and Marquette.” I am pretty skeptical of that, this year. 

Mostly dry forecast for quite a while, not much fishing on my horizon right now till The Opener, when I fish Steelhead at home. I am hoping the jet stream will wobble back north later this month and just maybe I can get back to a job in Gogebic and try for those Browns again. Pretty doubtful though.


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## PunyTrout (Mar 23, 2007)

B.Jarvinen said:


> Thanks for the offer on the spinners


No worries. If you change your mind, let me know.


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## Teggs (Mar 20, 2013)

@B.Jarvinen they coho start running superior tribs the last week of august and are pretty much done now (still a handfull of fresh ones trickling in). I dont think those guys you talked to fish very much. As far as trout travel I have read studies of steelhead traveling as far as 85 miles in a single day. I saw a walleye caught in greenbay last winter through the ice that was tagged 6months prior in Plymoth MI lake Huron. Big lake fish travel to where the food is, and travel far!


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## B.Jarvinen (Jul 12, 2014)

I was wrong on the precip yesterday and working in a steadily congealing drizzly mist fog was just not that appealing. 

So I walked my favorite little Coho trib and found one dead one, and one forlorn ghost Coho drifting around the only fishable pool on this reach. Just big enough that I couldn’t see what all might be in it, aside from the white Coho. With all the rocks and a history of usually donating one piece of tackle per year to this pool, I dug through my most neglected box of older tackle and selected a spinner I doubted I would miss - a #1 Mepps, copper blade. 

And proceeded to catch a small Coho. A male, just starting to turn white on some fins, and seemingly maybe not quite 15”. I put it back in case a last hen comes in. 

Could there be anything else in there? Yup, there was - a nice 14” jack Steelie that made a tasty fried dinner. I promoted the copper Mepps back to the main little tackle box in my creel. 

Then I headed up to the Tahquamenon. I have always wanted to cast at the mouth of it, so I tried that for a while. I have no idea of the bottom profile there or if there might be some deeper pools that would hold fish. But I would like to find out. 

Given that the Coho run is over (too early, a shame) and the Steelhead run hasn’t really started much, I headed upstream for some of my favorite type of fishing - stream trout. 

How could I do that, in November, without a Type 3 or GR stream in the east U.P? Water that is not type 1-4 IS open to trout fishing, and the DNR even stocks such a stretch with Browns - in between the upper and lower falls of the Tahquamenon. 

PunyTrout was correct - I would need spinners for this. I had expected to find some deep, steady current water. Instead I found the Colorado River - torrents of white water. It might have been good to have some crawlers to flip over near-shore rapids into eddies on the other side, but I will try that next time. 

I did find a nice in-shore eddy, right where a small trib came in too. I gave it a try and caught a 10” Brown on my first cast. I had switched to a #3 Mepps with a glow blade, given how dark the sky and water were, and the need for weight to help keep the spinner down in the very rapid current. I wanted my #9 Panther Martin, but those are pretty hard to come by at retail and didn’t quite want to risk that one. Glow Mepps aren’t easy to find either and I usually lose those instantly whenever I fish one and have to wait a year to find another one. 

Anyhow the Glow stayed with me and I caught another 10” and an 11” Brown within ten minutes. The 11 was kept for the skillet though I read the regs later and discovered the limit was actually 8” on un- typed water. 

I continued upstream a little but couldn’t find much fishable water in the limited daylight I had left - the Tahq was banging along pretty good, it seemed, given the wet spell we’ve had lately. I would have liked to find a true pool with a touch slower water and maybe a 3-4 year old Brown that had taken it for Home, but not this trip. 

It is 4 miles between the Falls, and this will surely be a delightful 4 miles to walk next year, in this same Coho/Steelhead lull, and after the ‘18 plants have had time to grow up a little. Quite an interesting place to fish Trout; not many places like that, in Michigan at least.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Forest Meister said:


> I know of at least two rainbows/steelhead caught in the Sault that had been tagged by the Ontario MNR in Thunder Bay. They could not travel much further than that and still be in Superior. FM


I think that Ontario plants more steelhead than Michigan does just don't know how to find it on the www.


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## B.Jarvinen (Jul 12, 2014)

On the 18th I got a chance to try out another portion of the Tahquamenon, which is not a Type 3 and is actually not even a Type 1-4, but since I first brought it up in this thread...

On my 2nd visit I went to the Upper Falls, Michigan's #1 Tourist Attraction. I love fishing the base of a fall - they can really load up with Trout in amazing #s in a small pool of water.

What about the 2nd biggest possible pool of water, anywhere in North America? My theory was this - in the Fall, the Browns would head up-stream in a basic search for spawning habitat. I have no idea if the stretch between the Upper and Lower falls even has any. Who knows what is under all that black water? And I know how good the feeding is in the pool of the fall.

I was picturing a huge stretch of deep black water; and I was correct. Unfortunately my experience catching multiple 10-11" Browns just above the Lower falls, two weeks before, led me to take my Ultra-Light rod down to the water, which is also a fair hike at the Upper falls access points. Even though at the Lower, I had used my 9'6" "Lake" rod, kinda boring and overly difficult to use for small stream Trout.

That was a mistake. The big pool at the Upper called for a big rod to throw spoons long distances. And there is no way to really read what is going on in there for fish holding points, either. That well could be some of the blackest water I have ever seen - perhaps glow lures would be the best choice, after all.

I quickly lost my one glow Mepps to whatever is on the bottom of the river. (Naturally Jay's was once gain bereft of these when I stopped in the day before Thanksgiving; I have little luck ever buying these anywhere). I could hear "water noises" below me, so I headed downstream. I was hoping to find transition areas from the flat water to beginnings of the big drop which occurs right above the Lower Falls.

I found a few things in the steam creating classic holding eddies, but I could not draw any sign of fish, no bumps or anything. The river was at very high levels with the shoreline alders having up to two feet of stem in the water. The water was quite colder than 2 weeks previous, loaded with a lot of melt water from the early snows. This would slow down fish reaction chances to passing lures, I would think.

It looked, from the bluff, like it would be a long ways towards any more varied structure and I now think it would be easier to find what I was looking for going up from the Lower falls, even though that is also a decent hike in from the parking area. I will try again there the next time I have some free time in that area, next year.

But I can't help but wonder just what might be in that gi-normous pool below the Upper falls - the DNR has been stocking that stretch for many years now...


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## concentroutin (Jan 7, 2014)

Many moons ago (~1995) I saw a guy toting a 27" brown he just caught out of there. My friends and I promptly dropped our jaws in unison. We were all pretty new at trout fishing at the time and we did not catch a thing. Doubt this helps today, but I wonder about that deep inky water to this day. Good luck next year please report back!


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