# Honeysuckle



## chevyjam2001 (Feb 14, 2002)

I want to plant some honeysuckle in the spring and have seen 2 different varieties, Tartarian and Rem Red. Has anybody planted these and if so how would you rate them? Any pro's or con's. I am looking to make a hedgerow for bird cover.


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## fowl (Feb 15, 2003)

I would reccommend against planting any honeysuckle. It can be very invasive and will spread out in to the sourrounding landscape. It is more or less a weed. 

What type of birds are you managing for?


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## chevyjam2001 (Feb 14, 2002)

Pheasant and turkey


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## Grizzly Adams (Oct 6, 2003)

chevyjam2001 said:


> Pheasant and turkey


Plant autumn olive & Honeysuckle. Invasive is way overstated IMO ... both of these are good for birds


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## ont-canuck (Jan 10, 2006)

Don't plant honeysuckle, especailly tartarian. Try serviceberry instead.


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## Kurt D (Nov 23, 2004)

...that is less like a tree then include ninebark and highbush cranberry. Add some of the dogwoods (grey, silky or red osier dependent upon moisture/soil) also. Pheasants love dogwood berries. Serviceberry is a good choice for food also but grows taller and not usually as bushy as the others. Plant all of them if you have the space. You can purchase all of these at a good price through your county NRCS sale in the spring. Maybe even add a few conifers also.

The MDNR planted honeysuckle and autumn olive all over the place and they are having issues with it escaping and causing problems. 

Good luck, 
Kurt


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## Riva (Aug 10, 2006)

If you plant a honeysuckle hedgerow and don't cage it in, the deer will eat it to the ground before it gets 6 inches tall. 

I was going to plant Japanese Honeysuckle except everybody hereabouts said it was too invasive and considered a noxious weed. In some areas, like southern IL, they utilize Japanese Honeysucle "sytems" which are essentially caged fencerows augmented with an underground root feeded/fertizer pipeline. This really "juices up" the plants for fast growth and very very high protien levels. 30+ protien, I'm told.

The deer tear them up. Still doesnt take away from the fact that in warm weather, the birds will eat the seeds, (caged or not, poop the seeds somewhere else and new honeysuckle growth will emerge.


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## chevyjam2001 (Feb 14, 2002)

I planted a hedgrow of roselow crabapple, ninebark, elderberry, nannyberry and highbush cranberry and the growth rate has been less than desirable. I want something to grow quickly to act as a screen from the neighboring hunters as well as provide some food and cover.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

> I planted a hedgrow of roselow crabapple, ninebark, elderberry, nannyberry and highbush cranberry and the growth rate has been less than desirable.


I've had bear pull every elderberry bush, that I planted, out by the roots. I don't advise planting it above the bridge.


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## chevyjam2001 (Feb 14, 2002)

Yeah the bucks down here decided to use the few decent size elderberry shrubs I had as rubbing trees and snapped them all off.


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## fowl (Feb 15, 2003)

I agree with some of the above recommendations. The danger in planting agressive invasive shrubs is that they will actually diminish quality pheasant habitat. Sure the birds may eat some of the berries, but when those shrubs start to encroach in to the fields and grasslands it degrades quality nesting cover. In most cases with pheasants if you provide quality nesting cover and brood habitat, the birds will thrive. In Michigan the most limiting factor for pheasants is high quality nesting cover.

If you plant some shrubs it is important to continue management that will keep the grasslands from turning into shrub lands. Prescribed fire is prefered, mowing can also be used.


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## chasmo54 (Feb 2, 2006)

I might raise some eyebrows on this recommendation but I believe it is sound advice though it's admittedly a little edgy for the average landowner. Invasives are invasive because of how successful they are at establishing themselves in what seems like the worst of sites. A typical poor site for plants is along field edges by the road. The soil is usually compacted from years of being driven on and salts from the road crew cleaning our roads in the winter. These sites near the roads are usually a high priority to grow screens to prevent prying eyes from passer-bys. This is the only situation that I think invasives should be considered and used. They will establish, grow, and become the screening most are looking to create fast. You can plant natives but you will not see the results for years if ever on poor sites. The cost and time involved in amending the soils are not worth it and in many cases don't change the soil structure enough or to much to be of any benefit. Planting heaven forbid, Autumn olive, Buckthorn, and honeysuckles on these challenging sites produce results and are a huge benefit to animals. I have used this strategy on my property with terrific success and admittedly have had to maintain these screens to keep them in check. I would recommend the above plants on poor sites only because they solve the problem! I may start a new thread on this, as this is a savvy strategy when used properly.


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## sjhawkeye (Apr 25, 2006)

chasmo, of the 3 invassives you listed above, is there one that would be better 'browse proof' than another (when first planted -small plants). 

i have property that is in an area with no agriculture food sources and the deer are really browsing everything in sight ( i know, we are working on balancing the deer population). i have established some food plots and have been working on creating cover around the food plots, but the deer continue to feed. i was thinking of trying the autumn olive this spring and some grass mix. thoughts?

thanks,
sjhawkeye


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## chevyjam2001 (Feb 14, 2002)

I am planning on using bristly locust for my roadside planting. It grows fast and thick on poor soil and it produces flowers in the spring to appease the wife. Plus it does not produce berries or preferred browse which may lead the critters to the road.


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## chasmo54 (Feb 2, 2006)

sjhawkeye said:


> chasmo, of the 3 invassives you listed above, is there one that would be better 'browse proof' than another (when first planted -small plants).


Buckthorn and autum olive are browsed the least, honeysuckle is stimulated when browsed but when freshly planted are at some risk of being pulled out of the ground the first month until the roots take. You could simple put some straw on the top of these plants and that should do it.


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## bishs (Aug 30, 2000)

You have seen my posts on all the species I have planted, of them all only honey suckle was a complete disaster. I am not positive on which species of honey suckle. I purchased it through the county extension. The deer never let it grow. After 6 years I could still find the shrubs 1 foot tall. Now they are gone. I do have some honeysuckle bushes growing on my place on there own. They were out in fencerows back when the land was open farmland. Less browsing then.

Speckled Alder, grows faster than anything I have seen on my place. The deer don't browse it. It also sends out new runners from its roots. I will have large thickets in another year. 

A lot of guys try to find the perfect fast growing shrub, and struggle for years with deer browsing ect. Only to find out that if they had planted any Norway spruce it would probably be there largest tree in 10 years. They just have to get used to the idea, of watching them for 4-5 years before they take off. There even taller than my Norther Red oak, and Pin Oak.

If you were to look at my place, with all the species I planted the first two years. Nothing holds a candle to the size of my Norway and most of my white spruce. If I would of planted Speckled Alders back then, they would of been the largest. 
Just keep the spruce out of standing water areas even if its only for a few days.

Just drive around and look at people's yards. Those monster spruces with the drooping down limbs are Norways. I have light sandy loam soil, my dad has heavy soil with hard clay 12 inches below in his yard. The Norway he planted grew to a large size fast. My trees grow 2 foot a year once there 5-6 feet tall, some grow 30" runners at top. The best part is nothing browses them! Many of the high quality wildlife shrubs grow fast but after the deer browse them down every year they end up growing slow. You may not realize how bad they are getting browsed. Once there browsed, all you see is a torn twig. It really opened my eyes when I caged trees.

I would like to give you a perspective with one of my 3 acre plots. All trees were planted 5 years ago. 
Speckled Alder 15-18 feet tall, now there are 12 inch sprouts popping up all around, large thickets soon!
Norway spruce 5-6 feet tall, "there taking off now". In 2 years they will be 10 feet tall. They were planted as 1-2 ft transplants.
Ninebark 4-5 feet tall, getting browsed, but they are winning the war
Crab Apple, 4-5 feet tall, caged the last two summers.

The pheasants and turkey love my Autum Olive. Some of the old shrubs are dieing and other shrubs/trees and AA are coming up. For what its worth, I planted some crabbapple and Washington Hawthorne amongst my Autum Olive, and they didn't get choked out like everything you read. These trees have tremendous growth rate in the AA thicket. The AA is protecting them from browsing deer, and they are growing tall very fast, similar to a tree shelter. They are growing fast to compete with the AA for sunlight. Last year I started cutting the AA down around them to give them more room to spread out. Its impressive. If I were in your shoes, I might consider planting AA on either side of your quality shrubs, to try to get the same effect. Then trim the AA back when needed to get them to grow outward.


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## sjhawkeye (Apr 25, 2006)

chasmo and bishs- thanks for the feedback. 

of the autumn olive, norway spruce, buckthorn, and specled alder - what are shade tolerant vs what need to be planted in the open?


thanks,

sjhawkeye


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## chasmo54 (Feb 2, 2006)

Spicebush, Elderberry, Serviceberry, PawPaw, Beech, Horse chestnut, Amur Maple(small shrub), Redosier dogwood, Sumac, Arrowwood viburnum. All these are shade tolerant.


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## sjhawkeye (Apr 25, 2006)

chasmo54 said:


> Spicebush, Elderberry, Serviceberry, PawPaw, Beech, Horse chestnut, Amur Maple(small shrub), Redosier dogwood, Sumac, Arrowwood viburnum. All these are shade tolerant.


thank you,

sjhawkeye


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## fowl (Feb 15, 2003)

I still have to strongly advise against planting honeysuckle, autumn olive, and especially buckthorn. It may seem like a good idea to plant these non-native agressive species in areas that are hard to establish vegetation, like roadsides. The thing to consider is what will be the impact on the entire landscape? Dont just think about your few acres that you are planting. If these shrubs are planted next to roads the seeds will be dispersed all over the county by vehicle and foot traffic, not to mention the birds that will be depositing seeds a good distance away. Planting these invasive species is irresponsible and poor land stewardship. There are alternatives that will produce the same results without becoming everyone elses problem. I advise anyone that is doing land management to consider the impact of your actions on the entire landscape and your neighbors property. Contact professionals and ask their opinion. Gather accurrate information before planting. Each year we spend millions of dollars in this state to control escaped landscape plants, and introduced species that are destroying our woods and waters. Dont contribute to this widespread problem. 

For an example just go look at many of the state game areas in Southern Michigan. Most of them are dominated by invasive shrubs that were introduced years back to "improve" wildlife cover. Autumn olive, multi-flora rose, honeysuckle were all planted years ago by our state and federal wildlife agencies. Now they spend thousands to control these weeds that have destroyed more wildlife habitat than ever imagined. (Oh yeah, how many pheasants do you flush on thes state game areas?) Think about it.


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## bishs (Aug 30, 2000)

I understand the danger of invasive species. Multiflora rose is some nasty stuff. Recently there have been several articles from outdoor writers defending or should I say questioning the Autumn Olive shrub. For starters the shrub is here, and its wide spread. its not going away. I know it spreads fast in some areas. I planted it 12 years ago on my farmland. My entire land was open farm ground. I would like to see it spread around. but it hasn't. Several others will probably pipe in and say the same thing. I have it coming up here and there. But I have many more, oak, cottonwood, ash and dogwood popping up in my fields. I have open land that I have planted to shrubs, and basically left idle next to my AA plot, and only a few sprout up every year. Many of the older AA are starting to die off, they seem to not handle hard winters. The areas around them are filling in with other species. 

This is what I see.
My wife hunted near my AA plot a few years back, and couldn't believe all the pheasanst walking through there picking berries off the ground. I have migrating flocks of Cedar waxwings drop in and fill up. The turkeys will fly up on the limbs and bow them down gobbling the berries. I believe the concern of AA was that it would take over the grasslands, hence hurt the pheasant cover. I have pheasants like the 50's with all my habitat. One thing that really caught my eye was where the pheasants roost when the snow is deep and the winter is tough. It's not in my switchgrass or Big bluestem, its in the nastiest shrub growth on my land. I suspect that AA is quick to invade non-fertile soil where other trees and shrubs struggle. 

The reason the pheasants like the berries is that the Non-Native "Ringneck from China" originated in an area with "Non-Native Autumn Olive from China."

The state land in Saginaw/Gratiot county which is 20 miles from me, has some dense fencerows of AA planted by the state probably 50 years ago. They have not dominated the landscape in this area. I am sure its different in other areas.


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## chasmo54 (Feb 2, 2006)

I talked recently with an about to retire NRCS gentleman that explained to me that OA ripens right when many migratory birds in need of a food supply, and in his opinion AO was a positive contributing resource more so than a detrimental resource.


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## fowl (Feb 15, 2003)

It is not uncommon to find some of the older agency folks that still think that AO is a great idea. They were the ones planting in 20-30 years ago.

As far as migratory birds depending on AO. Migrants will find food. With the abundance of fruit producing shrubs I do not believe that AO is significant for the success of migratory birds. That is not to say that they dont utilize it. But if it were gone they would find alternative sources and do just fine.


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## fowl (Feb 15, 2003)

For those considering planting honeysuckle, below is an announcement for a workshop that addresses honeysuckle as an invasive plant.

A regional group will sponsor the Gateway Honeysuckle Summit to discuss invasive plant control strategies, advocacy and landscape replacements on March 16 at the Powder Valley Nature Center in Kirkwood. Sponsored by the Gateway Honeysuckle Consortium, the event will include panel presentations and group discussions beginning at 8 a.m. until noon. The consortium provides a forum for community and professional groups and interested individuals throughout the St. Louis region to share experiences and information relating to the control of Bush Honeysuckle (Lonicera morrowii; Lonicera maackii; Lonicera tartarica). A summary of the discussions and future actions will be posted on this site soon after the event.


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## Riva (Aug 10, 2006)

Again, I have been intrigued by Japanese Honeysuckle for quite some time when I saw a video (TV show?) how professional deer hunting guides use it to augment their efforts in Illinois. 
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Basically, they encase the plants in a wire cage and plant it in 20' "rows". In this manner, the deer can only nibble off the foliage that extends outside the wire cage. They are then able to cut off any growth that occurs outside the cage as well. 

Some go so far as to bury sewer pipe a few feet under the plants and, by means of a hose or tube leading to it, periodically pour a formula of a super-potent fertilizer and water down into the tube directly to the roots. This acts to raise both the protein levels (30 %+), size and growth of the plants. They refer this setup as "honeysuckle systems". I have only heard of them using the "Japanese" Honeysuckle variety versus any of the many other varieties.

There is a company that sells these "systems" on the web. I would think that many, if not all, of the components that they sell could be acquired locally for less money. http://www.rackbuck.com/


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## roostersbane (Nov 22, 2005)

Riva,
Thanks for the link that's a pretty cool site. 
I wonder what type of honeysuckle they are using? I have Amur (Red Rem...which is Maackii I think) and the deer don't seem to touch it. They grew to 6' in 3 years...certainly not to the point of needing to cage it. I have a few along a ditch that are mixed in with a bunch of HB Cranberry. I think they nibble the cranberry more. I'll have to look closer to check for browse marks. I have seen pheasants jumping up into them (honeysuckle) and eating the berries!


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## Riva (Aug 10, 2006)

They use "Japanese" Honeysuckle. I'm told that it is highly preferred by deer versus any other variety of honeysuckle and some other plant species, including some foodplot varieties.


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