# Lesser of evils- centerfire at night restrictions



## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

With everything else being equal and if centerfire rifles at night for predator hunting will be considered by Michigan's NRC, which reasonable restrictions could you, an experienced night time predator hunter, expect and live with should the DNR's law enforcement division demand them?

Which restrictions might they throw in? Well, if you look at other states whom allow it with restrictions (less than 20% of those total that have it at all) they may include deer season (quiet period), caliber size, round design, seasonal or geographic location restrictions.

Now, as the OP I am hoping that everyone will stay on top of here and answer the explicit question rather than begin debating intangibles such as: whether center fires at night should be allowed or what you would like to see as a bird watcher, hiker, or snowmobile rider. In other words, I would like to hear from the experienced predator hunters here with answers staying on topic. Should anyone want to debate the other aspects of this issue, I'd be more than happy to take in your views from within another thread.


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## flash5153 (Mar 27, 2014)

I had to read this 16 times and I think you are asking ,,if they allow centerfire cartridges at night. What restrictions would we expect?
Maybe I need to read it again?? lol


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

Yes, exactly flash. There will be talk going on within this next week's NRC meeting in Detroit within the public comment period on this subject. Later this Spring, Predator Hunters For Centerfire At Night will be submitting their collected petitions from their petition drive for a request that the NRC open up public comment on the subject, conduct a vote and if passed, instruct the DNR to change the restrictions for night time predator hunting.


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## fowlpursuit (Jan 20, 2012)

I don't think snowmobilers, bird watchers or hikers are a concern as those activities are happen primarily in the daylight. Plus predator hunters would rather be alone I disturbed.. I could foresee a change in the "safety zone" I don't believe the 450ft from any roadway or dwelling is sufficient. However on that note; I will say it may possibly be safer provided he/she is responsible as its been my experience while night hunting houses and vehicles ect..are easier to see even through trees because of lights. 
Caliber restrictions are a different story but in my opinion I see no real value in it. I will say fast and light is good protocol to reduce ricochet risks. I say up to a .243


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## srconnell22 (Aug 27, 2007)

While I am not an experienced nighttime predator caller, I do forecast some restrictions if implemented. 

- 22 caliber or smaller center fire (22 hornet, .222, .223, 22-250) 

- Only allowed from January 2 through April 15th.

- Zones 1 and 2 only.


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## doggk9 (Aug 27, 2006)

Why the date restriction?


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## srconnell22 (Aug 27, 2007)

Do you think the DNR is going to want to take the accusations for allowing center fire rifles from July (when big deer are in velvet and have patterns you can set your watch by) through deer waiting season? You'll see pushback from the DNR and deer waiters as they will be scared of someone shooting "their deer". 

Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% for center fire at night in varmint calibers including allowing the use of suppressors. 

Dennis asked for possible restrictions the DNR would bring up. I offered what I could easily see happening.


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## wolverines (Jan 29, 2007)

Deer season runs until January 1 is my guess. 
I can see an argument for .22 or smaller, but when you consider the 22-250 it doesn't make much sense. 
I'll be very disappointed if this goes through and is limited to zones 1 and 2.


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## caller (Jan 18, 2005)

I really have to believe that if someone is going to the extremes to poach deer they are not going to worry about if the gun they are using to poach with is a legal firearm. I don't think poachers read the rule book to see if their firearm of choice is legal for POACHING AT NIGHT.


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## srconnell22 (Aug 27, 2007)

caller said:


> I really have to believe that if someone is going to the extremes to poach deer they are not going to worry about if the gun they are using to poach with is a legal firearm. I don't think poachers read the rule book to see if their firearm of choice is legal for POACHING AT NIGHT.


I agree 100%. A poacher is going to poach whether or not using a center fire rifle at night for predator hunting is legal or not. 

That being said, public perception is everything and deer waiters are a very self centered group. They will be very worried about the effect of center fire rifles at night during the time when their bucks are on their "hit list".


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## doggk9 (Aug 27, 2006)

The same guys that complaining about youth hunters taking all THEIR bucks lol


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## Honkkilla59 (Dec 12, 2013)

Or ***** hunters!


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## caller (Jan 18, 2005)

Most deer hunters don't care much for coyotes so maybe they will look at this as a positive to help control the coyote population instead of a negative. Have to think positive.


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## Dom (Sep 19, 2002)

The only restriction that may be required is 15'+ high seat only at night. That gets the hunter up and shooting down into the ground. As long as you are responsible for your shots and have a safe backstop, shouldn't be many issues statewide.


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## fr3db3ar (Feb 26, 2009)

My only statement will be for the poacher comments. With the gear we use at Dog Tire TV I could shoot deer all night long with a 22 mag or 17 WSM if that was my goal. Heck, most of the time I could take a 22LR with subsonics and not even disturb the local dogs.


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## srconnell22 (Aug 27, 2007)

fr3db3ar said:


> My only statement will be for the poacher comments. With the gear we use at Dog Tire TV I could shoot deer all night long with a 22 mag or 17 WSM if that was my goal. Heck, most of the time I could take a 22LR with subsonics and not even disturb the local dogs.


You don't have to convince me of that. In my opinion more deer have been killed with a 22LR than most any other gun out there. 

It's going to be a matter of convincing the masses of deer waiters that center fire rifles at night will not increase poaching of trophy bucks.

That being said, I don't believe the OP was looking for a debate with this thread. More so hoping to forecast possible proposed restrictions.


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

That statement is by far more true than false. While fact checking recently and verifying current laws regarding centerfire at night with other states, I found that most officials did not have any facts surrounding whether there was an increase in deer poaching at night as a result of adding centerfire and had no reason to believe it increased at all. I personally think most officials know within the natural resource field across the nation that poaching is a crime of opportunity which you cannot legislate out with restrictions. With or without methods available, poaching will exist at the same rate. It is an illegal activity. 

To your other point, though, my opening question wasn't so much posted towards forecasting possible proposed restrictions, but rather find out from the experienced nighttime predator hunters here which ones they would most likely be able to live with if additional compromises had to be made.


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## srconnell22 (Aug 27, 2007)

Seaarkshooter said:


> That statement is by far more true than false. While fact checking recently and verifying current laws regarding centerfire at night with other states, I found that most officials did not have any facts surrounding whether there was an increase in deer poaching at night as a result of adding centerfire and had no reason to believe it increased at all. I personally think most officials know within the natural resource field across the nation that poaching is a crime of opportunity which you cannot legislate out with restrictions. With or without methods available, poaching will exist at the same rate. It is an illegal activity.
> 
> To your other point, though, my opening question wasn't so much posted towards forecasting possible proposed restrictions, but rather find out from the experienced nighttime predator hunters here which ones they would most likely be able to live with if additional compromises had to be made.


My apologies then. I misunderstood what you were trying to do. 

I'll bow out of this discussion as I am not your target audience. 

Good luck with your proposal. Hope it works out for you guys.


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

srconnell22 said:


> My apologies then. I misunderstood what you were trying to do.
> 
> I'll bow out of this discussion as I am not your target audience.
> 
> Good luck with your proposal. Hope it works out for you guys.


No need to. You added some great thought starters there. I value your opinion. It is my opening question, which is probably too vague, that has most likely lead people to post forecasted restrictions by our DNR as you have. By posting just that though makes any type of knowing what experienced predator hunters may want difficult.

Sr...I know you have given predator hunting a try, maybe not to the extent that some have, but I would be interested in hearing what you could live with all the same- and most importantly, why would you be able to live with it?


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## srconnell22 (Aug 27, 2007)

Seaarkshooter said:


> No need to. You added some great thought starters there. I value your opinion. It is my opening question, which is probably too vague, that has most likely lead people to post forecasted restrictions by our DNR as you have. By posting just that though makes any type of knowing what experienced predator hunters may want difficult.
> 
> Sr...I know you have given predator hunting a try, maybe not to the extent that some have, but I would be interested in hearing what you could live with all the same- and most importantly, why would you be able to live with it?


I'm a hound hunter. We usually kill a pile of coyotes and a few cat every year. I'm a predator hunter only from January through when the snow leaves, in daylight only. 

I honestly hope the predator callers get whatever they need (centerfire, suppressors, etc..) in order to make themselves more efficient at what they do. I support callers 100% in what you guys do. We hunt the same game using different methods but we are all hunters and need to support each other.


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