# AuSable, Why Not?



## B-ckstopper

Having grown up on the "HOLY WATER", fishing and guiding for friends, lodges, and personal enjoyment, and since the River has become such an Industrialized, Fishing hotspot thats draws people from all over, Why not, open it up to All, tackle.....Not just Flys Only, Not just catch and release......
Why not allow people to take a fish caught, by whatever means, and enjoy it over an open fire, or in a pan....., or on a stick....
Holy Waters originally came from the Pristine river, and ther Men and Women that settle it, cared for it and nutured it, and made there lively hoods along its shores and woodlands.....For every body to enjoy.
Not to become the play ground of the "Elite, Empowered or rich"
The river belongs to everyone to enjoy and utilize, responsibly.....
So Why not Let everyone utilize it......


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## Fly Water

B-ckstopper said:


> Having grown up on the "HOLY WATER", fishing and guiding for friends, lodges, and personal enjoyment, and since the River has become such an Industrialized, Fishing hotspot thats draws people from all over, Why not, open it up to All, tackle.....Not just Flys Only, Not just catch and release......
> Why not allow people to take a fish caught, by whatever means, and enjoy it over an open fire, or in a pan....., or on a stick....
> Holy Waters originally came from the Pristine river, and ther Men and Women that settle it, cared for it and nutured it, and made there lively hoods along its shores and woodlands.....For every body to enjoy.
> Not to become the play ground of the "Elite, Empowered or rich"
> The river belongs to everyone to enjoy and utilize, responsibly.....
> So Why not Let everyone utilize it......


 Well , Because it will turn into The "Holy CRAP Water"...The problem is not everyone will "enjoy, and utilize it RESPONSIBLY"..... And its not that Fly Fisherman are Elite, Empowered or Rich... I just think that once you start fly fishing and it turns into a deep passion which it usually does, you tend to have a much deeper understanding and appreciation for the whole river system..(caring about fish,learning about the bugs,the water, reading books on bugs and trout ect) 
It really does become more than just Fishing, almost a lifestyle if you will.. You know the system does have plenty of water you can keep a few trout from. Whats wrong with keeping the Holy waters "Holy " anyway, The famous big Browns didnt get Big and famous by being gut hooked by a crawler and tossed on the grill. This is just my opinion not to offend anyone. Im not saying all bait and tackle fisherman dont care.. but they can put the hurt on easily...Im not an "Elitis" I fish all Tackle, Hell sometimes I put bait on my Fly rod indi rig lol (where bait is permitted)
But I am most Passionate about Fly Fishing... 

Tight Lines...

Fly Water


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## Fishndude

I would go along with all C & R in the Holy Waters, but agree that it should be opened to all common methods of fishing - flies, bait, and hardware. That water really does house a ton of LARGE Trout, and part of the reason is because nobody is allowed to keep any. Sure, some die due to stress of being caught; but many more survive to be caught and released over and over.


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## Bull Market

This one is going to turn ugly in a hurry.


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## bigsablemike

B-ckstopper said:


> Having grown up on the "HOLY WATER", fishing and guiding for friends, lodges, and personal enjoyment, and since the River has become such an Industrialized, Fishing hotspot thats draws people from all over, Why not, open it up to All, tackle.....Not just Flys Only, Not just catch and release......
> Why not allow people to take a fish caught, by whatever means, and enjoy it over an open fire, or in a pan....., or on a stick....
> Holy Waters originally came from the Pristine river, and ther Men and Women that settle it, cared for it and nutured it, and made there lively hoods along its shores and woodlands.....For every body to enjoy.
> Not to become the play ground of the "Elite, Empowered or rich"
> The river belongs to everyone to enjoy and utilize, responsibly.....
> So Why not Let everyone utilize it......


 
all i can say is:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

then it wouldnt be the overfished "HOLY WATER"
it would just be an average stream.

give me the little man any day.


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## turtlehead

I'm up late and I'll bite...

The Au Sable has a fly fishing history going back a very long time. People were fly fishing for grayling in the 1870s. Flies only was first introduced on the North Branch in 1907.

I say it's okay to preserve that history with flies only regulations. It is the culture of fishing on the Au Sable. Go sit on a log and wait for bugs. Contemplate your place in the universe. Inhabit that 50 feet of river. Go to Lovells and the North Branch Outing Club. It's like stepping into a time machine. 

This is the angle that is being overlooked in this debate, IMO. It's not like flies only is a brand new thing, it has been predominant on the Au Sable for over a century. That should count for something.

Elitism, Schmeetism.


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## Frogpoopin

time for a change I say...


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## Shoeman

Frogpoopin said:


> time for a change I say...


It's going the other way. I may not see it in my lifetime, but some of you young bucks might. Lobbying efforts throughout the country are placing an emphasis on Flies Only as a resource management tool. 

In the future anyone wanting to target trout in "prime habitat" will be required to do so with a longrod. Baitfishermen have always been labeled as fish killing, littering heathens. It's only a small subset of anglers that fit that description, but in the minds of the "organized" it's all the ammo needed to change the regulations in their favor.

I saw the writing on the wall nearly 10 years ago and forced myself to mothball the Panther Martins and Rapalas. Honestly I don't miss them. Something about fooling a trout (or any fish) a on fly that was created on my vise seems like an accomplishment that can't be duplicated with throwing a store-bought offering. 

For me it was the challenge after chasing trout with conventional gear for several decades. 

Some take it to another level and become proactive in the movement to limit the taking of trout with fly gear. Landowners, guides and clubs are all lobbying for changes.


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## B-ckstopper

Okay, I must not be playing nice, i can't respond, none of my replies have gone thru, i keep getting turned off....


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## Trout King

> I just think that once you start fly fishing and it turns into a deep passion which it usually does, you tend to have a much deeper understanding and appreciation for the whole river system..


uh huh...have you ever seen the PM flies water during the salmon run? a lot of those guys care about the river and the fish

I have trout fished since I was 5 years old and I appreciate the river and understand systems as much as anyone. I have released every fish over 20 inches except for one, and limit my kill to what I will use. I'm a spinner and bait fisherman, that doesn't mean I care and understand less than fly guys.


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## Jekart

Trout King said:


> uh huh...have you ever seen the PM flies water during the salmon run? a lot of those guys care about the river and the fish


Most of those guys you see toting flyrods during salmon season won't be on the bank waiting patiently for a drake or hex hatch to start either. 

Calling them fly fisherman is like calling guys who shoot deer with spot lights at night hunters, it's just not the same.


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## kienbaumer

WHY NOT? Because the upper au sable has something rare not only to michigan but to the entire nation. WILD TROUT!! IF they planted up there i would say sure why not but they don't and they shouldn't. IT SHOULD BE CATCH AND RELEASE FROM TOWN TO MIO!


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## Trout King

> WHY NOT? Because the upper au sable has something rare not only to michigan but to the entire nation. WILD TROUT!! IF they planted up there i would say sure why not but they don't and they shouldn't. IT SHOULD BE CATCH AND RELEASE FROM TOWN TO MIO!


The bows as well as the brookies were both planted there at one time or another. I could show you plenty of examples of wild trout populations in Michigan, the thing is many people just don't know or bother to fish some of these places. Hell, I catch 20+ inch browns in a stream that hasn't been planted since the 60's every year. I also have very productive smaller waters which are not planted or maintained...guess what I don't let every wild trout I catch go...why? because they are good fried, smoked and baked. Every year I go back to these spots and it seems there are just as many fish as before. Actually, this year was the best year I have recorded in my journal...other than the year I went to Montana....where I caught a lot of wild trout. To say wild trout are rare isn't a solid argument considering there are in fact a lot of areas...including all of Michigan that has wild trout populations.


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## Fishndude

Not to argue but Brook Trout ARE native to the Ausable, and to Michigan. Lake Trout and Brook Trout are the only true Trout in our State. Brown Trout and Rainbow Trout are actually sub-species of Salmon, and were both introduced. 

I, too, would agree with catch and keep; but could live with C&R if it came down to it. But I simply cannot get on board with limiting the legal method of fishing to flies-only. And I grew up fly fishing the Holy Waters!
I just don't think restricting gear and bait fishing produces a higher quality of fishing. I have read studies which alluded to that, but none proved it to me.


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## WF6W

Being that your in the Gaylord area you have how many fishable miles of river at your disposal and hardly any of them with restriction on your fishing method: Big Creek, Pigeon, Black East Branch, West Branch, Sturgeon, Maple, Gilcrest Creek, Thunder Bay, the Main Ausable as well as the North Branch from Opal Lake down through Damn II just out your back door and that is just a 30 mile trip in any direction. Yes some are Brookies only but for the most part Brown and Rainbows as well.

IMO one piece of water with limited methods is not asking much be it Fly Rod or spin fishing. Those who choose not to fish it with a fly rod and C&R do it by choice no one is being told they can not fish it just the method allowed. Compared to the lions share of quality fishing available to everyone who does not fly fish is it a bad thing that one piece of history thanks to a group of people that had a Concept to protect and save something a bad thing that requires change.

I see that you spent some time in Alaska fishing a very wonderful river system and in fact one of the better in the state NICE! Alaska has more restrictions than you can shake a stict at. As an example the famous Kenia has a fly fishing section only and no retention of Rainbows at all.

You could compare the management and use of both of these famous rivers to being loved to death and over used hence the limited tackle and the C&R .

Tight Lines

WF6F


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## B-ckstopper

I have fished almost all those streams.....I am not against Fly fishing.....Thats all i knew till i was about 16.....I still love the big Drakes, and Hex hatchs.....And i was even Married on the Holy Waters...By a Holy Man "That helped establish and maintain the area"
But to declare it Flies only, any longer i think is unfair to the general public, and excludes many that would like to share in the esthetic beauty of sitting and fishing along its shores.
Canoer's out of Grayling, can not fish 3 hours of 4 hour float trip..
They probably can't even carry tackle, or bait with them?
I don't fish with beautiful gliding strokes of a brush, I throw big ugly bugs in deep runs, and dark crevises, I hunt big fish....To EAT>>>
catching little fish on little tackle doesn't send a shiver up my spine, Seeing a mink, otter, deer or Eagle does, and feeling the surge of power from a hefty fish slamming a big ole Skunk, or muddler does....But i think it should be available to everyone....I know areas where Fly fishing is actually more effective means, and places where a Panther Martin, or Mepps would be very effective.....I want the option, or choice...Why aren't there hardware only areas,......
The Holy water is a great fishery, only if you know how to, and where to fish it...


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## B-ckstopper

Yes, could you imagine listening to the radio, or 11:00P.M news or 6:00 a.m. for the current daily regulations for the Holy Water....
When i fished Alaska I carried both a Fly Rod, Heddon "OLD PAL" #7, AND an Ugly Stick Spinning Rod, with a Mitchell reel loaded with 14 lb mono.
Comparing the Keni and AuSable is a Stretch.....
Lets face it, there is "Nothing Wild and scenic" about the first 25 miles out of Grayling.....Its almost all private, with limited access.
Lets take Stephans Bridge, other then the access below the bridge, its about 1 to 1-1/2 miles of river up or down, ALL private....
Yet that section is overwhelmed with foottraffic, fishermen every weekend...Now there is NO WAY most of them are going up to guides rest, or Thendara RD, to fish down, The majority are not fishing up then back down, or vs versa, and the next access down at what was Twin Pine rd....
So how many of the "Passionate, Holy fisherman are walking over, thru or past all the fence, and NTpassing signs to access the river.
Why is a Canoe Evil, or an inner tube, or a kayak, unless it has a fisherman in it.....
If you went down there and fished streamers with a spinning rod, you would have a CO sent your way immediately... I've seen it happen...
How long Has CR been in effect, and the fishery is no better


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## WF6W

However the Kenai is more crowded and has more traffic that is with the exception of the canyon and that is still busy busy busy. No the Ausable is not the fishery that the Kenai is but it has similar usage problems with user groups and regulations out the yazoo to include months of no fishing at all.

I still can not understand the fixation with wanting the one section changed for the sake of being able ot harvest the fish just becuase someone is not allowed. 

You might have a better argument if in fact you went to single hook barbless restriction versus fly fishing only but I would not change the C&R unless it was a true put and take fishery which this section is not.

That is not to say I promote C&R as a managment tool for all areas on any stream however one section on any river is not a bad concept.

I harvest fish in AK and when I am back home in MI and my family enjoys eating them however I also pick and choose the location and species of my harvest as an example on B Creek off the Chulitna System you can harvest two Rainbow trout over 20 inches a year however nothing on Willow Creek. I want to eat Rainbow I go to B. Creek versus Willow.

Same concept Willow has way to much pressure and is fished by many people to include float trips. You allow anything but C&R it would be dead in two years. Being that this section of the Ausable has heavy use, established guife businesses, and sportsman out the backside anything but C&R and resticting the method would more than likely have a negative effect and increase the amount of people wishing to fish it.

Just Saying.

Respectfully

WF6F


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## WILDCATWICK

> No the Ausable is not the fishery that the Kenai is but it has similar usage problems with user groups and regulations out the yazoo to include months of no fishing at all.


Actually the section being discussed is all year as is most of the restrictive gear/c & r sections. If they did change the regulations of that section they would probably change the open season on it too. Then there would be no fishing during winter months. Something to consider.


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## Litehen55

I am sure it has been discussed to death, but the number of flys only/cr areas are very small when compared to the whole rive system of the AS. All the water below Wakeley, half the Mason tract. Really not that much is flys only CR. I have a cabin above Parmalee, and if you are fishing for fish to eat, there are probably more fish in there than in the Holy Water. However, it is tough to wade and even tougher to fish. 
Leave it the way it is. I can FF only upstream if I choose, catch to keep downstream.


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