# Probably gonna get blasted for this...



## Walleyealx (Feb 11, 2006)

ScavengerMan said:


> Weren't you the guy crying on another thread about being treated with hostility by other hunters at NP? After reading your above comments, I'm starting to get the picture......
> 
> 
> .



...


----------



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

ScavengerMan said:


> Weren't you the guy crying on another thread about being treated with hostility by other hunters at NP? After reading your above comments, I'm starting to get the picture......
> 
> 
> .


um...his points in either thread have nothing to do with each other. he was pointing out other hunters harrassment.....and here defending managed areas. so what picture are you getting?


----------



## GVSUKUSH (Mar 9, 2004)

You SE side/tri-cities guys have a good with these managed areas. I'd give my left nut to be near Fish point/Nay. point/Shiawassee/ or the Bay for that matter......alot harder for a single, walk in hunter to find decent, public access on the west side, at least around Grand Rapids. 

It's a long drive, and *early* wake up from G.R. for a 5am draw, that's for damn sure......


----------



## ScavengerMan (Sep 6, 2006)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> um...his points in either thread have nothing to do with each other. he was pointing out other hunters harrassment.....and here defending managed areas. so what picture are you getting?


 
They most certainly do Kid. Read those remarks again:




> Originally Posted by *CMUBASEBALL*
> _If you think these places benefit the hunters more than birds your a frickin idiot. These places house thousands if not millions in total of birds migrating. It gives them a safe place to eat sleep and roost. Hunters moneys go to these places so that they can continue to have a place for these birds to go. They are call REFUGES for a reason pal. The seasons are only for a little of the year. What about all summer and spring when the birds use these places to nest and roost. Your statement is totally off the wall and you obviously dont know a single thing about these areas. You should have a little more knowledge when you come to the table. If you cant run with the pack stay in the kennel_




_Somebody who is that big of an azzhole in making their point in a simple discussion about the merits of the managed areas provides a pretty good shapshot of their attitude in general. If you extend this type of behavior we see above into the field at NP, is it any wonder people like this bring hostility upon themselves? There is usually another side of the coin to every issue Kid, and it is becoming more apparent all the time that we didn't hear the full story about why some fellow hunters had some issues with CMU..... _


----------



## thedude (Jul 20, 2004)

GVSUKUSH said:


> You SE side/tri-cities guys have a good with these managed areas. I'd give my left nut to be near Fish point/Nay. point/Shiawassee/ or the Bay for that matter......alot harder for a single, walk in hunter to find decent, public access on the west side, at least around Grand Rapids.
> 
> It's a long drive, and *early* wake up from G.R. for a 5am draw, that's for damn sure......



aye! some flooded corn refuges over here would be nice! maybe a duck or 2 might start migrating this way.


----------



## north-bound (Nov 20, 2007)

CMUBASEBALL said:


> If you think these places benefit the hunters more than birds your a frickin idiot. These places house thousands if not millions in total of birds migrating. It gives them a safe place to eat sleep and roost. Hunters moneys go to these places so that they can continue to have a place for these birds to go. They are call REFUGES for a reason pal. The seasons are only for a little of the year. What about all summer and spring when the birds use these places to nest and roost. Your statement is totally off the wall and you obviously dont know a single thing about these areas. You should have a little more knowledge when you come to the table. If you cant run with the pack stay in the kennel


 Wow!! Tell us how you really feel. Is this some left over anger from NQP?


----------



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

ScavengerMan said:


> CMUBaseball, weren't you the guy crying on another thread about being treated with hostility by other hunters at NP? After reading your above comments, I'm starting to get a picture about another side of the story that probably wasn't told.
> 
> 
> Furthermore, although I strongly support the managed areas and legalized baiting that go along with them, it is obvious that Sea Duck has a very salient point. An intelligent person basing their opinion on the facts can make an excellent case that places like NP benefit hunters more than waterfowl. Look at the timing of the water; it is flooded to coincide with hunting season, not waterfowl production in the spring. If you look at the number of birds killed vs what is produced in these areas the numbers are shocking! Furthermore, there are a considerable number of divers like Scaup taken at NP. It is a well established biological fact that Scaup returning in the spring are suffering weight loss critical to their breeding success in the far reaches of North America. Yet, nothing at NP provides any type of benefit for divers in spite of a significant harvest come hunting season. Another point favoring hunters over the ducks has to do with locally produced mallards. Look at the statistics and see how badly Michigan raised mallards are slaughtered during hunting season. Managed areas that are designed and operated to attract and retain these local mallards significantly add to the high percentage of local birds killed. Even the layout favors hunters over birds. Three of the fields at NP that comprise a large percentage of the total acreage are killing zones only (north, middle and south fields) that are planted with food to attract ducks in the fall and only flooded at the time of bird harvest. There are a handful of puddle ducks produced in the ditches along these fields that hold some water year around, but for the most part they are completely void of waterfowl except for attracting ducks during hunting season. Anyone who closely observes this area in the spring and summer knows that even the refuge itself lacks water with only a comparative handful mallards and teal managing successful broods. I would say that a person could make a really great case that considering the number of birds produced on location, along with the minimal value of rest and food during the spring and summer that shooting multiple thousands of ducks in a legally baited area most certainly benefits hunters over the birds......


i realize your playing devils advocate scav but gonna point out.

regardless of how you see it the bottom line is sportsman use these places for everything. If you stop tomorrow and don't manage them....you lose sportsman....all kinds, not just duck hunters. 

When you look at the big picture, duck hunters are harvesting birds, in return money from the hunters comes in to help improve habitat. I mean this model is not new, DU and Delta run on the same model.

Another thing to consider, here at shiawassee we have more non-corn hunting areas by far. The acreage of moist soil units and flooded woods is by far out weighing flooded corn units. And if you look at the amount of birds killed in those units it should be on par with any other units....flooded corn or not. Simply calling managed areas bait units is just showing someones non-involvement. Whens sea duck last been on a managed unit? Almost all of the managed units have a marsh so if you don't like cornfield hunting, nothings stopping you from marsh hunting (old school) as he would call it.


----------



## Shlwego (Sep 13, 2006)

Here is my opinion on the managed areas: Whatever else it may be, it's NOT baiting. It may be an "artificial situation," but it mimics a naturally occuring process that happens on a seasonal basis. What's truly "artificial," is the way that we as humans have dammed and diverted our rivers, and drained our marshes. If those activities hadn't happened, then maybe we wouldn't need to flood croplands on purpose to help our migrating waterfowl. 
I also believe that these areas ARE beneficial for the migrating birds more than the hunters! Vist most of our bingo draws and you'll find out pretty quickly that the birds become nocturnal and feed in the corn when there are no hunters there. They figure out what's up. But they still eat there. Additionally, these flooded crops are FOR the waterfowl, not just waste grain from "agricultural practices." Hunting a cut corn field seems to me to be "baiting" more than a flooded field is, but yet it's legal. And private landowners can certainly choose to flood their own fields for hunting and the DNR would not consider it baiting. So as far as I'm concerned, flooded crop fields ARE benefical, regardless of whether or not they are hunted for a few daylight hours each day. And as others have said, this does not even take into account the majority of the year when these places are not hunted, and the other species besides waterfowl that rely on them.


----------



## bender (Nov 10, 2005)

Shlwego said:


> What's truly "artificial," is the way that we as humans have dammed and diverted our rivers, and drained our marshes. If those activities hadn't happened, then maybe we wouldn't need to flood croplands on purpose to help our migrating waterfowl..


x2!!


----------



## MIDUCKER (Jan 26, 2006)

Sea Duck said:


> KID - Maybe the difference between the agricultural fields that happen to flood occasionally and the Bingo Fields, is that the agricultural fields aren't planted and then flooded for 2 months, intentionally, at great cost, *just so hunters can kill birds*. Hey, if you can convince yourself that *the killing fields* are good for the duck populations, then good for you! Personally,* I think the Bingo fields benefit duck hunters way more than they benefit ducks/geese*. BUT, don't get me wrong, I don't want to see the *Killing Fields* go away (because I know I'll have more company in the marsh and on the lake than I want), but *I just can't call it anything but baiting.* Kind of brings to mind that old saying about lipstick on a pig...how's that go?


Wow....I just thought it was the anti's I had to worry about.


----------



## StackemHigh (Oct 9, 2008)

Sea Duck said:


> KID - Maybe the difference between the agricultural fields that happen to flood occasionally and the Bingo Fields, is that the agricultural fields aren't planted and then flooded for 2 months, intentionally, at great cost, just so hunters can kill birds. Hey, if you can convince yourself that the killing fields are good for the duck populations, then good for you! Personally, I think the Bingo fields benefit duck hunters way more than they benefit ducks/geese. BUT, don't get me wrong, I don't want to see the Killing Fields go away (because I know I'll have more company in the marsh and on the lake than I want), but I just can't call it anything but baiting. Kind of brings to mind that old saying about lipstick on a pig...how's that go?


 
Are you a member of DU, PF, WF, RMEF? All of these organizations promote these "killing fields" "bingo draws" etc. These fields are the foundation for the species that they hold for the shear reason that they bring hunters out. With hunters comes funds from licences gear, gas, etc. Without these public areas hunter numbers would decrease, state funded areas would disappear and most of the now "killing fields" would be turned into subdivisions and malls. Now tell me where ducks and geese are gonna roost and feed in a cement covered mall parking lot. 
These public hutning areas are only hunted three months of the year on avg. What do you think happens the other 9 months? They are a place for game to breed and live with limited interference from humans. Granted noting is perfect but I truley believe these areas are a much bigger benefit to the wild game they hold then the hunters that pound it day after day.


----------



## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

have a friend who does not hunt (but not an "anti") and he and his wife use many of the managed areas throughout the year for birdwatching and photography. They take many more trips to these areas than I do in hunting season, and they love it. Just pointing out the value for non-hunters as well.


----------



## Walleyealx (Feb 11, 2006)

all anyone has to do is take a look at the so-called "killing fields" about 10 minutes after shooting time to realize that they are beneficial to the waterfowl... Thousands of ducks and geese drop into the fields and fill themselves full of corn. The vast majority of the birds that utilize the fields don't even get shot at.

Its a pretty cool thing to see after every evening hunt. I swear those ducks have watches.


----------



## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Walleyealx said:


> all anyone has to do is take a look at the so-called "killing fields" about 10 minutes after shooting time to realize that they are beneficial to the waterfowl... Thousands of ducks and geese drop into the fields and fill themselves full of corn. The vast majority of the birds that utilize the fields don't even get shot at.
> 
> Its a pretty cool thing to see after every evening hunt. I swear those ducks have watches.


Yeah but ya know they often do it in the farm fields in North Dakota a lot too...right at dark, when shooting time is over. They quickly realize that darkness is their friend...none of those big noisy bangs take place at dark.


----------



## CMUBASEBALL (Mar 13, 2008)

First of all SEA DUCK....im pretty sure sea ducks will not be visiting flooded corn and buck wheat in large numbers, they So your eat small insects and fish in the SEA. really not makin a whole lot of sense. My point about hunters being azzholes and harassing a group for limiting out is totally different then the managed areas being a good place for game to thrive. It seems that your all wound up and looking for confrontation. Im pretty sure im discussing how the managed areas help out our migratory bird population. If you feel that they are harm to them, stay out of them. In fact if there so bad, you should probably stop hunting in general since millions of hunters dollars from licenses and shells etc go to fund these place. Your arguement doesnt quite add up. Im sorry if you dont like areas that will help improve this great natural resource we all love. This is totally a differnt tred then the other one. You should make sure your commenting on the correct topic be for going any further. Im simply trying to condone behaviors and areas to improve the quality of bird numbers and hunting in this state.


----------



## CMUBASEBALL (Mar 13, 2008)

and if these places were soooooooooo bad as you seem to claim, then im pretty sure they wouldnt have been around for 50+years. Im not rocket scientist, but i do believe things like this would have changed in that time frame if they were not benefiting the waterfowl. And i totally agree with the above posts about DU and other organizations. These are totally pro managed areas. In fact at nqp the DU has set up a booth there. Im pretty sure thats a fairly good indication that they are promoting such areas. But hey, im not a rocket scientist.


----------



## waxico (Jan 21, 2008)

Most people who hunt know fully well the pros and cons of the managed areas. I used to gripe, I scouted and learned puplic water alternatives, and now have options. Early in the year, pretty much the only game in town. Flight birds arrive, go to the lake. 

If you don't like it, don't go. But DON'T trash the guys who bust their butts to provide the feed. The birds are there every year, right? It's because of the managers.

As far as the behavior of other hunters, it's like anything else. Go to a football game, 85% of the folks are minding their own business, 15% are AZZh**es. Ya take the bad with the good.


----------



## BeWild (Mar 19, 2007)

Nobody must be shooting any ducks cause everyone seems pretty damn grumpy.:lol:


----------



## donbtanner (Sep 26, 2007)

I think its time for this thread to take a quote from Brother Branta's Book of Psalms..... Ahem.....

*DEAR BABY JEEEZUUUS*.... please grant peace amongst thou flock (pun intended). Whether in the corn rows, phragmite, bullrush or even open water, keep us as one, undivided, lovers of every race & style of duck hunter there is..... keep us cold and shivering, in bountiful "ducky" days ahead.... bless us now with the buzz bombs we desire...... keep us shooting straight and most of all, able to look in the mirror and laugh.....

CAN I GET AN "AMEN"?


----------



## waxico (Jan 21, 2008)

"Ah-Men, Brother DBT"


----------

