# I might be opening a bee nest!?



## Smith & Wesson man (Oct 22, 2005)

I have been very lucky this year. Opening morning I was able to fill both of my tags At 8:00 I took a really nice doe, and 1 1/2 hours later I took a 7 point that was with two other does. I did pick up another doe tag because I was planning on going out with a friend on a special muzzleloading hunting trip. Now, here is what my open this nest, buzz-buzz. I just got back from the thumb today and I have read some people complaing about people taking small bucks and let them grow. Can you eat the horns? My father and I love to make summer sausage, jerky, hambuger, steaks, breakfast sausage, pepper sticks, and none of them require horns I look at hunting as a chance to fill my freezer with meat that only cost me some time and $2.00 for my slug. Try to buy 50-75 pounds of beef for that price. My father has hunted for almost 30 years and he hates the hunting shows on T.V. today. You see these guys with huge bucks and other wildlife and that makes everyone think that these monsters are in everyones back woods and fields. My father shot his first monster 8 I think in 1968. He just got his second in 2001 (big gap). He will say I don't have a major gun or clothing company sending me to expensive hunting loges that fence in their wild life and basically raise (like cattle) these monsters. I almost forgot where I was going with this. We talked to a couple of hunters and they said why did you take a doe so early in the morning (thirty yard shot, broad side, 98% chance she will be down) *venision*. I didn't get anything last year, and for me the good lord gave me a bonus this year by the seven point. I am not here on a soap box or telling people how to hunt, but I don't think you should bash other people for taking a four point or a nice size doe. Where I hunt everyday after the 15th your chance of getting something goes down (at least where we are at). I might go out this weekend with my brother, good luck to everyone else that don't have something hanging in their shed!


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## SNAPPY (Feb 13, 2004)

Congrats S&W man! You went out and did what many wish they could......put meat in the freezer! After all, its not about who has the biggest deer(not where I'm from any way), but who has the most meat to eat. :evil: Glad I'm not the only one that shoots deer for food! Not that all do but some will really get on your arse for not letting a certain size go. Any who, congrats again.


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## wecker20 (Mar 10, 2004)

I was happy w/ a doe last year and would like to take one this year but no doe permits where I'm at. The county needed that for the public lands so horns are what I'm after now. Have let a couple of spikes walk in hopes for a larger, more mature buck but meat is meat and I may take a 1.5 year old.


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## ArrowHawk (Apr 1, 2003)

I agree with you and Congrats
My plan at the start of the year was to put 3-4 deer if the freezer and there are 3 in there now. I love the taste of venison and hunt for that reason. Don't get me wrong shooting a nice Buck is great but you cannot eat the antlers. So I say if you are taking it legally and its not going to waste, "Take It".

Congrats Again


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## 102woodsman (Dec 21, 2004)

Congrats on your double header! Like you said, why not take a doe that gives you a good shot?... that's what it's all about! "too early in the season"???? did they tell you what day it is OK to shoot one??... And be proud of your 7 pt. for sure! These "trophy experts" should mind their own business instead of trying to be "deer hunting dictators".


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## 102woodsman (Dec 21, 2004)

You know, my sister in-law just shot a doe this year(her first deer!) and she was very happy and excited! To me that's DEER HUNTING. NOT some guy shooting his 13th "trophy" and complaining that he wouldn't have shot it if he'd gotten a better look at his "short G2's" or "too many deductions for lack of symmetry".


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## Isaac_62 (Nov 29, 2004)

If your hunting for meat why not just shoot does and have respect for the men that like to practice qdma???It really does improve your deer heard.. I have been doing it for about 3 years now and can see the difference bigtime... During bow season i let over 25 bucks or more walk by me cuz they werent big enough... just an example... Im not bashing you my friend but just saying that alot of guys are finding out the results that this gives you and are practicing it on their land... give it a try you might like it.. as far as shooting a doe on opening day.. why not perfect shot and you needed meat.. good job my friend.. just keep these aspects in mind nextime a small buck walks by...

-Isaac


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## 102woodsman (Dec 21, 2004)

Issac, respect is a two way street. i actually agree with most of the QDMA principles and have passed up bucks myself. i just don't care for people putting down someone else that shoots a deer (any deer) and is rightfully proud of it. isn't that the essence of deer hunting?


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## Isaac_62 (Nov 29, 2004)

IF you cant eat horns why shoot bucks????? let em go and they will grow... 
I am not bashing my friend just stating some very logical points...


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## kbotta (Sep 20, 2004)

I hunt for food. Early season, I'll let em' walk-depending on the freezer situation. Sorry, I like my venison. 
I see nothing wrong with killing either SEX, as long as it's with in the limits of the law.
0.02
kb


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

Smith & Wesson man said:


> My father shot his first monster 8 I think in 1968. He just got his second in 2001 (big gap).


S&Wman,
I find it interesting that you and he are able to recall the years that the "monsters" were harvested and I am willing to bet that the heads are displayed in a place of prominence and that just about every detail of the hunt is remembered and has been retold, with imbelishment perhaps, several times over.

The movement toward QDM is usually made when someone wants to experience that same feeling of harvesting a mature whitetail buck. The facts are that with Michigan's deep seated traditions of "If I don't shoot him the neighbor will" or "if it's brown it's down" the chances of harvesting a mature whitetail are greatly deminished and it is easy to adopt a defeatist attitude. Practitioners of QDM come to it with big antlers in mind and stay with it because of all the other good things that the practice provides both for them and for the resource.

There is no shame or good reason not to take a doe early in a hunt, infact it's a great management decision and will pay off in the long run. You are correct that you can't eat the antlers so if there are does in your DMU that need to be harvested then those are great deer to take and by letting the younger bucks walk for another year or two you will start to shorten the gap between your "monster bucks" and begin to experience deer hunting in a way that most in Michigan only dream of but that many have imbraced and are reaping the reward.

Who knows maybe you will get an endorsement or two. 
Big T


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## WALLEYE MIKE (Jan 7, 2001)

One can take any deer within the law and nobody has the right to bash or try to push his or her ethics upon them. Feel proud of what you take within the law. I do. I shot a doe at 8am opening morning for a sure bet for meat. That left me with a buck tag to use. At 8:15 a 1 1/2 year old smallish nine point came in. Unfortunitly I must have hit a branch and missed but my nephews behind me got it. 

I tried boiling the antlers to death but never could get them soft enough to eat. :lol:


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## StumpJumper (Nov 13, 2001)

I can fit more 4 points and 6 points on my wall than I can fit them big trophy deer.


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## TheApprentice (Oct 17, 2005)

I have been on both sides of this fence before and can still relate with both sides. I do not have this macho attitude that I have to get a huge buck every season, but I do not shoot small bucks anymore either. My first year of hunting I shot 2 smallish bucks, one had a pretty darn big body just a small rack. Anyhow, I was so proud and thought that I had accomplished more than most ever do for their first year of hunting. My second year I shot 2 button bucks and got my arse reamed out by my family. I could not even see the nubs and had no preception of how small the deer really were until I began to gut them. I was only able to hunt for 4 days a season and firgured I had to take the chances that the good lord provided me with. Now that I have been hunting for a few years I just don't have the desire to shoot something that small. I look at it as I am shooting a baby, which just doesn't sit right with me anymore. I am not one to bash anyone for shooting any sized deer as my hunting ethics and decisions to take certain sized deer are just that my OWN ethics. There is no law that says anyone else has to abide by my ethics and viewpoints. Alot of these people have paid the money for their property and they can manage it any way they wish. I guess the ones that are so into QDM should have bought more land if this was their goal. It may be a personal goal for a lot of guys to shoot a monster buck as it is mine, but I know way to many hunters that are only out there for some bragging rights and to rub it in to others about how they shot the monster of a lifetime. If that is the only reason you are in the woods in my opinion you need to take a close look at yourself and wonder if you have the ethics of a true sportsmen. I mean why do guys spend thousands of dollars to slaughter fenced in animals? For the bragging rights! How could one feel successful by taking a caged in animal and not putting in the time and effort that it would take to get an animal like that in the wild. I am not bashing anyone in my post, just stating my opinion that I truly believe to be factual statements. I believe in my heart that many on this forum would tend to agree with the opinions that I have stated within. My hats off to all of you that are proud for any deer that you have shot as long as the proudness comes from within your heart. You all have a wonderful season and I hope all your dreams come true.

Ryan


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## beer and nuts (Jan 2, 2001)

Come'on!?!?! ""During bow season i let over 25 bucks or more walk by me cuz they werent big enough... just an example.."""" Give me a break!?

For one, if qdm is so great and you have been doing this for a couple years now and this year you passed on 25 small bucks--something ain't workin for you. For two, your most likely hunting land that 99% of hunters can not even dream of hunting, its the land-its the number of hunters hunting the land-and your not doing a good job of managing the herd if you have all those bucks and I can not imagine the number of does your seeing too. I would have to say you have way to many deer over the carrying capacity which would make sense with that many small bucks-pending this is true and not exaggerated. Just seems to me your not really practicing Q.D.M.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

beer and nuts said:


> Come'on!?!?! ""During bow season i let over 25 bucks or more walk by me cuz they werent big enough... just an example.."""" Give me a break!?
> 
> For one, if qdm is so great and you have been doing this for a couple years now and this year you passed on 25 small bucks--something ain't workin for you. For two, your most likely hunting land that 99% of hunters can not even dream of hunting, its the land-its the number of hunters hunting the land-and your not doing a good job of managing the herd if you have all those bucks and I can not imagine the number of does your seeing too. I would have to say you have way to many deer over the carrying capacity which would make sense with that many small bucks-pending this is true and not exaggerated. Just seems to me your not really practicing Q.D.M.


B&N,
Once again you've decided it can't be so because you haven't experienced it.
Isaac may well hunt multiple properties to have seen that many bucks, he may be hunting a large tract of managed property, he may hunt in several different parts of the state, he may have shot some does as well but you attack him and claim he's not really practicing QDM. Well B&N check his photo gallery and see the fruits of his labor before you make such dispariging remarks and maybe your imagination won't get the best of you.

Why, B&N, if Isaac passes 25 bucks "things aint workin for him"? What is your logic behind that thinking?

I my self hunted 11 days so far this year and have seen over 26 different bucks and an equal number of does. This didn't come without some hard work and sacrifice but it was VERY worthwhile and my freezer is full ( 1 buck and 1 doe).

Always a pleasure,
Big T


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## EXITPUPIL (Jan 22, 2004)

He may have intended to say he passed 25 times. I myself passed 10 times this bow season on bucks 6 pts or less. Some were the same deer. Why did I do this? Because I am hoping to shoot a mature / more mature buck than previous. As has been stated SO MANY times by so many different people here. You cannot eat the horns! So I took two large does from too different properties. Why shoot a small buck who has potential to grow bigger vs shooting a mature do for my freezer. For me (personal choice) two deer is all my 4 person family is going to eat this year unless I get the chance at a mature buck in the late season. as for the argument "you cant eat the horns" then maybe take a doe if your area has enough which in my areas was plenty.


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## beer and nuts (Jan 2, 2001)

Ok your right, he could be hunting different pieces but he did not say that and it comes across as if he is saying I have passed on 25 bucks-"passed on" meaning within shooting range on one property-you said seen 26 bucks, you also could be over looking a 200 acres cornfield next to a 1000 acre refugee. Or you could be hunting 5 different pieces of property all overlooking 200 acre corn fields in Jackson Co., no problem seeing that many deer. But because I have not experienced it does not mean I believe it, what I do believe and was trying to point out is if you and him have seen 25 plus different small bucks on one property, this is QDM?? I point comes to mind, TOO MANY DEER. You guys come on here and say QDM works, I've passed on 25 different bucks, see it works. I gotta feeling there is always alot more to the story when I hear these kind of numbers. Your right, it could be a large tract of managed property-if thats the case his experience and opportunity is so far ahead of 99% of Mi hunters.

what we need is more details to get an accurate picture on his and your properties and see why your passing on 25 bucks so far. Acreage? Number of hunters? Landscape(ag./swamp)/county? Property surrounded by..???


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## Nighttimer (Jul 24, 2001)

I don't get this. Why do people post in the "Management" forum to basically bash people trying QDM? It's like bait fisherman that use the "Fly Fishing" forum to bash fly fisherman. If you don't like then keep it to yourself. There is nothing illegal about it. That goes both ways. Someone shouldn't look down on you for shooting a young buck. If you want to shoot small bucks that's fine and it's your right to do so. But I have a question for the true meat hunters. If a big doe was standing next to a giant 10 pt buck with a smaller body, which would you shoot? Obviously the doe right? Because that's what hunting is all about.  

All it takes is a couple sits in an area that has been managed with QDM for a couple years to convince the nonbelievers otherwise. And it takes at least a couple years in most areas to get good results. Some places require at least 5 years.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

beer and nuts said:


> what we need is more details to get an accurate picture on his and your properties and see why your passing on 25 bucks so far. Acreage? Number of hunters? Landscape(ag./swamp)/county? Property surrounded by..???


B&N,
I can give you everything you asked for plus name, rank, serial number, name of first born, favorite color, favorite food, etc. etc... but you, B&N, would still find a reason to find fault with the practice of QDM. Therefore, I will no longer waste my time responding to you because nothing, including results, will ever change your mind or antagonistic attitude. 

Good day,
Big T


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## beer and nuts (Jan 2, 2001)

Make light of my question if you want but me asking and not getting an answer tells me what I probably thought, you were already in the best deer hunting habitat one can have. QDM did not create it, it was already there but your pursuit of trophy bucks now(and nothing wrong it, your choice) somehow as changed your thought that if everybody else just passes on 1.5 year olds they too should see 25 bucks running around in 5 years. 

My point that 25 different bucks passed on one property(if thats the case) tells me thats has got to be too many deer and I have no idea how this relates to QDM and what it stands for and it tells me, maybe just maybe your seeing a very unhealthy buck herd and that maybe some of those bucks are actually 3.5 year olds or older and are actually lacking good nutrition for antler developement as a whole.


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## Nighttimer (Jul 24, 2001)

B & N,

25 bucks in one area doesn't mean there are too many. Each area has a carrying capacity. That capacity depends on how much food and cover there is. Keep in mind he could be hunting 4 different stands on 100 acres. I hunt farm property with lots of corn fields. There are plenty of healthy deer and the doe to buck ratio is around 1.5:1. Each area is going to be different. And QDM will improve even the best hunting areas. There are plenty of memebers here that will help you out with whatever info you need. I can think of some off the top of my head that know WAY more than I do. But if you'd like to send me a PM, I'd be glad to share with you what I know.


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## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

beer and nuts said:


> Make light of my question if you want but me asking and not getting an answer tells me what I probably thought, you were already in the best deer hunting habitat one can have. QDM did not create it, it was already there but your pursuit of trophy bucks now(and nothing wrong it, your choice) somehow as changed your thought that if everybody else just passes on 1.5 year olds they too should see 25 bucks running around in 5 years.
> 
> My point that 25 different bucks passed on one property(if thats the case) tells me thats has got to be too many deer and I have no idea how this relates to QDM and what it stands for and it tells me, maybe just maybe your seeing a very unhealthy buck herd and that maybe some of those bucks are actually 3.5 year olds or older and are actually lacking good nutrition for antler developement as a whole.


I don't know the details either, but he didn't say 25 *different* bucks....you added that.

He wrote: 



> During bow season i let over 25 bucks or more walk by me cuz they werent big enough


I myself have let the same 4-pt walk 3 times this year. He may be counting the opportunities not actual deer. 

There's not enough information included in his post to jump to such conclusions.


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

O don't know where this is going but it isn't going anywhere positive that is for sure. I also do not know of a whole lot of QDM advocates that would so called bash you for shooting a legal buck. They may want to convince you to let smaller or "younger" deer walk but I don't see a whole lot of bashing here. QDM is powder keg all year long on this site so why don't we have an enjoyable season and give it a rest for 2 weeks before we cut each others throats out huh :lol: Congrats on a great day of hunting by the way wish I would have been as fortunate. 

AW


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

That old saying, "You can't eat the horns", just doesn't hold water when used in an attempt to justify shooting a yearling buck. Given a choice of two bucks standing side by side, one with spikes and the other with a huge rack, 99.9999 percent of deer hunters will shoot the one with the rack even though the younger buck would likely eat better.


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## jk hillsdale (Dec 7, 2002)

Trophy Specialist said:


> That old saying, "You can't eat the horns", just doesn't hold water when used in an attempt to justify shooting a yearling buck. Given a choice of two bucks standing side by side, one with spikes and the other with a huge rack, 99.9999 percent of deer hunters will shoot the one with the rack even though the younger buck would likely eat better.


Perfectly stated!!!!!


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## Smith & Wesson man (Oct 22, 2005)

Boy I sure think I opened a nest here on this post . I might have gotten carried away from my orignial post but I was a little ticked and my good mood was tained. I mean we have some guy I don't even know tell me how I should hunt, and then read posts about how others should hunt:rant: . My family and I agree we will never shoot yearlings or fawns and try always to be responsible hunters. Every deer we take a picture and show them off with pride for a few weeks, then they are marked and put into a box. Usually before opening day we grab the box and start talking about stories. To me I bagged two great deer on opening morning and no one can take that away from me. We took the heads to the DNR and my 7 point was 1.5, and the doe was 2.5 years old. No baby deer were harmed in the making of this post. I hope that ODMAMAN and Beer and nuts will still exchange Christmas cards this year:lol: Take care everyone and good luck this weekend if you are able to get out!


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## Nighttimer (Jul 24, 2001)

S & W Man,
You said, "My family and I agree we will never shoot yearlings...my 7 point was 1.5". A 1 1/2 year old deer is a yearling. I assume you didn't know the 7 pt was a yearling when you shot it?


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## Smith & Wesson man (Oct 22, 2005)

No I didn't. I don't have pictures yet, but he looks much older because of his size (he must have been eating his wheates).


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

Trophy Specialist said:


> That old saying, "You can't eat the horns", just doesn't hold water when used in an attempt to justify shooting a yearling buck. Given a choice of two bucks standing side by side, one with spikes and the other with a huge rack, 99.9999 percent of deer hunters will shoot the one with the rack even though the younger buck would likely eat better.



First of all it nobodys business what he shot he didn't have to tell us anything, second of all, there is no difference in the taste or tenderness etc from a 1.5 to 2.5 deer at all they are all the ame if properly taken care of after the kill. But since you stated the spike would eat better why get on this guy he shot the tastier deer I guess wouldn't you agree based on your statements.

This poor guy walked right into a bee hive that is for sure......seems like jealousy on here more that anything again congrats S&W man.

AW


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## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

> This poor guy walked right into a bee hive that is for sure......seems like jealousy on here more that anything again congrats S&W man.


The poor guy, Intentionally, walked into the beehive


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## Nighttimer (Jul 24, 2001)

He didn't walk into a bee hive...he hit it with a stick! He posted here to question QDM and why others believe in it. It is wrong for anyone to ridicule another hunter for a deer taken legally. But if he wanted to post about his success, he would have used the Hunting forum and not Management. He brought this on himself knowing what the result would be. Look at the title of the post. It's obvious some members are starting to do this on purpose.


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

Neal said:


> The poor guy, Intentionally, walked into the beehive




ouch thats for sure :lol: I am goin to enjoy the rest of the season and then start bitchin till next year fair enough?

AW :lol:


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## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

Adam Waszak said:


> ouch thats for sure :lol: I am goin to enjoy the rest of the season and then start bitchin till next year fair enough?
> 
> AW :lol:


Deal


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## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

I think you two have a great idea there - good advice - 

ferg....


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

Smith & Wesson man said:


> Boy I sure think I opened a nest here on this post .


Yep and it sure wasn't an accident, as was even acknowledged by the title of this thread. We took note of this post when it was made as it is an obvious attempt to stir things up. The report of your success could have just as easily, and more fittingly, been placed in the Whitetail forum.:16suspect


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