# The Geese Won't Die



## MC2 (Oct 2, 2017)

I hunt geese over water, but no matter what I try, the geese simply fly away.

A bit of background - I'm an experienced deer/small game/turkey hunter, but I've never been taught how to goose hunt and this is my first year trying. I picked up 14 floating goose decoys and a dozen floating mallards for my spread, learned basic calling, and started hunting the small, sparsely populated lake I live on out of a canoe with some burlap thrown on.

I can call in small flocks without issue. I leave the decoys a max of 25 yards from me with an open shooting lane, and the geese touch down about ten yards from my spread and swim closer. I know enough to know that I'll get some hate for this, but so far I've been treating geese like turkeys and refusing to shoot on the wing, letting them swim closer and present a still target. I always aim for the head.

I'm shooting 3" shells out of a 30" Remington 870. I've tried BB steel shot with modified choke and #2 Hevi-shot with full choke. During this year's early season, I've wasted several dozen shells shooting at geese and watching them fly away with only a few feathers left behind.

I hate this. I hate the wasted time and ammo money, but I especially hate potentially wounding these birds. I plan on going out during the October to January season, but I don't want a repeat of these disasters. Any advice?


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Too big of shot, too tight of choke. My daughter is a cripple swatter bar none, and she shoots IC choke with 2 3/4" 4's and on geese shoots where black meets gray at the base of the neck. 4's throw a wicked pattern at close range.

If you spring for hevi shot, get 6's. 

Would not hurt to pattern your gun either. Shoot a round or two up close too to see if your points of aim and points of impact differ.


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## MC2 (Oct 2, 2017)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> Too big of shot, too tight of choke. My daughter is a cripple swatter bar none, and she shoots IC choke with 2 3/4" 4's and on geese shoots where black meets gray at the base of the neck. 4's throw a wicked pattern at close range.
> 
> If you spring for hevi shot, get 6's.
> 
> Would not hurt to pattern your gun either. Shoot a round or two up close too to see if your points of aim and points of impact differ.


Well, I've patterned it with both the BB and 2, and it seems pretty dense at 40 yards. I'll try the 4's. Thanks for the advice on point of aim. I've been shooting at the white patch, but I'll try lowering the shot.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Draw a dot on a big sheet of paper, back off about 10-12 yards, and see where you hit. Also, could you be lifting off the stock? Goose fever?

I had a buddy who I watched shoot an 80+ on sporting clays with a pump only to choke and stop his swing when a 12# honker piled in.


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## MC2 (Oct 2, 2017)

Point of impact is spot on. It's usually my turkey gun. I actually mounted a rear peep sight to the receiver to go with the front bead. It's part of why this is so frustrating - I've never missed turkey or deer with this gun, and these are sitting geese. Granted, I'm using lead shot when it's turkey.

These are also pretty slow, deliberate shots. I'm going to head to the range and find the best pattern combination, but I also wonder if shooting whether they are flying or swimming would make a difference.


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## WoodyMG (May 29, 2013)

Honestly I've never had a problem shooting geese with cheap xpert #4s. And they seem to loose the ability to fly from just one pellet. Heck, almost every time cripples seem to loose even the ability to swim normal. 

I'm not trying to be rude, but if you've patterned your gun and thats fine... you're just plain old missing them.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

It sounds like you are missing. I agree, too tight a choke. I shoot either IC or skeet chokes. Go with 3 or 4 steel, unless you can afford more "fancy" ammo. Spend as much time as possible on the skeet range. That will help with your wing shooting. 

The calling/decoy situation is a different story. That is going to take a lot of learning.


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## walter sniper (Jan 21, 2010)

I shoot 2's and 3's 3" for everything but teal. 4's for teal. IC works fine. Remember steel does not compress like lead or heavy shot so an IC is more like a M. A M is more like a full.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

I shoot either 4's, or 5's, for duck. 3's or 4's for geese.


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## MC2 (Oct 2, 2017)

It sounds like the general consensus is that I should at least move back to modified and start using size 3 or 4 shot. I'll give it a go - I only avoided it for so long because I had a hard time believing #4 steel would be able to kill past 35 yards.

No problems calling them in. Unless it's a large flock (10+), they always change direction and land in the lane I made for them, about 5-10 yards from the decoys.

I've never had much time wing shooting. None, in fact. Hence one of the main reasons I've been letting the birds land. Any recommendations for a decent skeet range near the Kzoo/Paw Paw area?


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Don't shoot past 35 yards. Can't help with a range over there.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

I've had crippled ducks at 45-50 that have taken two or three reloads to finally anchor. I would not try beyond 30 with 4's. Hevi 6's, if you gave the pattern density, you could go longer.


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## aceraceae (Sep 28, 2012)

One trick I use, when shooting birds on the water, which is a bit similar to deer hunting, is to give them a "hey", or something to that effect, a grunt. This is assuming you are hidden and the birds are still basically "relaxed". What you get is a bird that "sits up a bit" and looks for the sound. Presents a slightly expanded impact area. Can also turn vitals more toward you. It may surprise you how much of the bird is protected by the water when they are snuggled down in it.
Don't rush the shot.
BTW, I've watched my pardner miss 8 times in a row on a cripple because he was aiming at the head and essentially shooting over the top. His excuse, "I didn't want to damage the meat." Good thing we shoot inexpensive xperts.  (we've been waterfowling for 39 years)

Another trick: When chasing after a cripple, as you "near it", and when I say near it, I mean 100 to 80 yards; don't go directly at it. Pick a path to one side that will take you to within 40 yards. I'm pretending to miss. I try not to stare it down. The birds will/can relax just enough because you are creating a sense that you are going to miss the mark with your chase. I chase with a canoe and do this all the time. They are less likely to dive on you and tend to paddle away with a less vigor. It's like a DB choosing a good angle on a running back. I'm left handed and head toward the left side of the bird so I can have a good swing to the right when I get to a reasonable range.

IMHO


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## SL80 (Mar 5, 2012)

Is it possible that your shots are a little longer than you think? 40 yards is a really long swat on a goose. Try for 25 and closer and the shot size, choke, etc. will matter a lot less.


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## population control (Apr 18, 2009)

I was always told to shoot a little high when their on the water. Couple inches above their head. No idea why. But that's what I do. I like 3 1/2 inch 3's for my water swat loads. That's out of a 10 gauge. You can't get anything smaller than 3 1/2 in the 10 and #3's are wicked on ducks when I decided I want to shoot this gun during duck season for fun. 6 shot steel should kill them at 20 yards no problem. Check the distance to the decoys with a range finder to be sure.


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## Sofa King what? (Nov 1, 2016)

No issue with water swat here...but it does seem to be harder to get a good kill/drop shot on 'em then a shot into one about to land with it's wings spread out


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## MC2 (Oct 2, 2017)

population control said:


> I was always told to shoot a little high when their on the water. Couple inches above their head. No idea why. But that's what I do. I like 3 1/2 inch 3's for my water swat loads. That's out of a 10 gauge. You can't get anything smaller than 3 1/2 in the 10 and #3's are wicked on ducks when I decided I want to shoot this gun during duck season for fun. 6 shot steel should kill them at 20 yards no problem. Check the distance to the decoys with a range finder to be sure.


I always range the farthest decoy at 30 yards. It's harder to get them closer due to the ten yards or so of lily pads that separate me from the spread. I wish a 20 yard shot would open up for me, but alas. Geese arent dropping into the decoys. They land a few yards farther out and swim to the far edge of the spread.


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## Duck-Hunter (Mar 31, 2005)

Water swatting and ground pounding can be a little tougher than shooting them as they are about to land. Essentially it seems a lot easier. 

My preferred shot is taking them as they are a couple feet off the water or land. With a good wind at your back this is truly when you "got em where ya want em". If you got em on a string coming right at you with the landing gear down they have their minds set on landing. It's harder for them to back pedal or bust to the left or right and everything is exposed. 

When water swatting or shooting them off the ground I always tell everyone to put the bead on the white cheek patch. I haven't hand an issue laying em down this way. Then again our fartherest shots are 25 yards. I also run a mid range(mod) choke with 3" BB or 1's for geese.


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## Dead Bird (Oct 2, 2001)

puddle ducks jump almost straight up when they take off... geese are a little closer to a diver and make it hard to shoot when they take off... you have their back and head low... actually a tough shot... 

but at landing... they have their wings out and open.... head up... actually a better shot than when siting with their wings tucked and covering there vitals....

landing is also the slowest they are moving before at rest....

I understand the cost of dekes and it takes time to get a larger set... but maybe two feeders in the lily pads close to shore directly in front of you... a few to the left and a few to the right... none in front of you... they may land right in the middle... just a thought...

we all have gone though some learning curves so don't be afraid to ask... anybody that has hunted long enough knows that there is no one answer....


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## SL80 (Mar 5, 2012)

MC2 said:


> I always range the farthest decoy at 30 yards. It's harder to get them closer due to the ten yards or so of lily pads that separate me from the spread. I wish a 20 yard shot would open up for me, but alas. Geese arent dropping into the decoys. They land a few yards farther out and swim to the far edge of the spread.


And, herein lies the challenge of waterfowling.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

The very first two (2) rounds of Fiocchi 2's I shot from the case I bought. One with the jewelry circled the field about six times and would not buy it, then another flock came in, she joined them as lead and pulled them right into the spread. Dropped her and then the tailgunner from the back at about 30 yards. For scale that's a 26" barrel on the 12. I had to set them down more than once on the hike out.


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## sovaa4307 (Dec 11, 2012)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> View attachment 273939
> 
> 
> 1.5 ounce Federal Blue Box 1 steel. Shot 9 times to get my 7 birds on the left, missed once and one needed a follow up shot - it was skirting the spread and took a round broadside at 40-50 which knocked it down but not out. After shooting the first few geese that came in at the edge of range, we wiggled the spread and had geese closing to 25 yards. When the guy with me limited out, we fired up the spinnies and opened the blinds while waiting for ducks, and still had geese working to 25 yards without calling and flagging.
> ...


Idk if you're still looking for #1s or not but I shot the 3" herters #1s all early season and they didn't leave any survivors. Very impressed with it being a cheap round.


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> 1.5 ounce Federal Blue Box 1 steel. - Browning BPS factory M choke.


Have you patterned this load out of that mod choke you are using as well as an IC choke? Just curious how those to chokes pattern compared to each other while using that load.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

I've never had much luck with IC. I patterned IM with that load and was pushing 100%. With bigger shot the IM blew the patterns.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

I'll look into those Herters. My gun also likes 3" Drylok 1's.


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> I've never had much luck with IC. I patterned IM with that load and was pushing 100%. With bigger shot the IM blew the patterns.


That's good to know. I always thought of mod chokes to be a good go-to for steel shot on waterfowl, but I never had a lot of confidence in it on larger steel shot like BB and larger.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

I haven't shot anything larger than 1's in probably 10 years, so I don't have a lot of field experience. Most of the geese I hit with ones are immobile on the ground with.multiple hits.

Oddly, my Beretta loved 2 3/4" BBB.


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## SteelShot (Jan 26, 2011)

Shot and choke are important so pattern your gun and find what works. 

Also try not to overthink the shot. I make the mistake of aiming instead of shooting and miss every time. If I just pull up and shoot I have a lot better results. For whatever reason I can shoot clays without aiming but as soon as there is a real bird out there the brain starts thinking instead of just shooting. My point is if you know your pattern is ok relax and let your instincts do the rest. Oh yeah, keep your head on the stock too 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Let 'em close, 30 yards, or less, they are MUCH easier to kill. Fewer cripples, and WAY more fun. It's the hunt that's fun, not the limit. They are close enough to shoot when you can see them blink.


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## jumbojake (Apr 20, 2009)

De old 10 gauge en some T-shot,butt,belly,beakdose sky carp,will be done fur


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## jduck (Jan 21, 2000)

Invite me along and I'll show you what to do.


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## MC2 (Oct 2, 2017)

After getting out to the range and hunting this weekend, I solved my problem.

I've been shooting at geese at about 35-45 yards. I always imagined the shot would drop somewhat at those ranges. It does not. In fact, it hits about 5 inches high at 40 yards no matter what load I was using (Rio BB, Black Cloud BB, Hevishot #2). My brother had the same point of impact with his shotgun.

This entire time I've been either aiming at the head or slightly above, therefore shooting right over them. This weekend I aimed at where the water touches the breast, and had no misses. 2 shots, 2 birds, at 45 yards. And that was with a modified choke and the $10 Rio BBs.

Thanks to everyone for their input!


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## Oger (Aug 28, 2008)

Thanks for the update......think I better do same. .....btw what did u use for patterning...a bunch of card board boxes?.....thought of buying some cheap gift paper and use white side?


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

I think that large sheets of cardboard work better.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Hey Oger, our boats are going in the water in the next day or so, be ready to go!


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## Oger (Aug 28, 2008)

Lol.....i always have a " go" bag ready to go. .......hopefully they will start showing up. ...saw your pic of the sky rats good job.....3 less to crap on my lawn


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

LOL! Nothing showed yesterday.


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## MC2 (Oct 2, 2017)

I 


Oger said:


> Thanks for the update......think I better do same. .....btw what did u use for patterning...a bunch of card board boxes?.....thought of buying some cheap gift paper and use white side?


I actually photoshopped a life-size goose image and printed it on multiple pages, then taped them together. Probably more work than needed. A cardboard box as a support and gift paper would be fine.


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## meganddeg (Sep 29, 2010)

MC2 said:


> After getting out to the range and hunting this weekend, I solved my problem.
> 
> I've been shooting at geese at about 35-45 yards. I always imagined the shot would drop somewhat at those ranges. It does not. In fact, it hits about 5 inches high at 40 yards no matter what load I was using (Rio BB, Black Cloud BB, Hevishot #2). My brother had the same point of impact with his shotgun.
> 
> ...


I'm happy for you! I admire your ability to bring birds (as a new waterfowl hunter) and in your patience in waiting for the right shot. I also admire your humility in posting your original question. Glad that you received some helpful advice and now are getting the results you wanted.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Most shotguns used for wing shooting are stocked to put 60% of the pattern above the point of aim.


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## Oger (Aug 28, 2008)

Wow......never knew that


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