# cougar



## Swamp Monster

People always bring up the ONE wolverine we had.....the one that made it here via garbage truck. If you remember the complete story, then you remember where the Wolverine came from. Hint: it didn't walk here!! 

We had ONE Wolverine in the state and lo and behold we had trailcam pics of it. We have hundreds and hundreds of "claimed" cougar sightings in the LP, yet not a single confirmed picture. Why do you suppose that is?

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## thisusernamevalid

Swamp Monster said:


> We have hundreds and hundreds of "claimed" cougar sightings in the LP, yet not a single confirmed picture. Why do you suppose that is?


That's a valid argument and one that's brought up more by naysayers than the one wolverine argument. 

Consider this: We know there is a population in the UP. Sightings up there had been going on for years and years, yet the DNR absolutely refused to acknowledge them until the had proof. That's fair enough, they can't go on record stating their existence until they know it to be a fact. However, it took the DNR until 2008 to confirm cougar in the UP, and that was from a trailcam pic and associated scat and tracks. 

Now, move down to the LP. The same thing is going on, but it is assumed that if they are here, the population would be much, much smaller, probably a handful scattered around. 

If it took until 2008 to get a photo in the UP with a higher population, it wouldn't be surprising to find that it will take a lot longer to get one down here. 

Then you have this type of report or photo:

http://www.leelanau.com/blog/michigan-cougar-confirmation-leelanau-photos-seem-to-say-yes/

Does anyone really think that's a housecat? Again, the DNR says nope, not a cougar. Move along, nothing to see here. Yet they get them over and over and still refuse to acknowledge it. 

Anyway, it's only a matter of time. If it's not tomorrow it'll be next week, month, or year. At some point the DNR will capitulate. Maybe when they can convince the feds to send them some money, because that's really what this is all about. 

Follow the money. Always follow the money.


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## Wolverick

Swamp Monster, FYI, the garbage truck thing was discredited and no longer considered a possible means of transportation for that animal. Most people who have looked into it`s arrival now think it crossed over from Ontario. 

The only thing I know of who has been compacted and lived to talk about it was the Shreader!


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## Jager Pro

thisusernamevalid said:


> That's a valid argument and one that's brought up more by naysayers than the one wolverine argument.
> 
> Consider this: We know there is a population in the UP. Sightings up there had been going on for years and years, yet the DNR absolutely refused to acknowledge them until the had proof. That's fair enough, they can't go on record stating their existence until they know it to be a fact. However, it took the DNR until 2008 to confirm cougar in the UP, and that was from a trailcam pic and associated scat and tracks.
> 
> Now, move down to the LP. The same thing is going on, but it is assumed that if they are here, the population would be much, much smaller, probably a handful scattered around.
> 
> If it took until 2008 to get a photo in the UP with a higher population, it wouldn't be surprising to find that it will take a lot longer to get one down here.
> 
> Then you have this type of report or photo:
> 
> http://www.leelanau.com/blog/michigan-cougar-confirmation-leelanau-photos-seem-to-say-yes/
> 
> Does anyone really think that's a housecat? Again, the DNR says nope, not a cougar. Move along, nothing to see here. Yet they get them over and over and still refuse to acknowledge it.
> 
> Anyway, it's only a matter of time. If it's not tomorrow it'll be next week, month, or year. At some point the DNR will capitulate. Maybe when they can convince the feds to send them some money, because that's really what this is all about.
> 
> Follow the money. Always follow the money.


I definitely think cougars are in the LP but that photo looks like a house car to me. IMO it isn't even a big cat... Perhaps I'm looking at the pic wrong.


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## N.E. Outdoorsman

Swamp Monster said:


> People always bring up the ONE wolverine we had.....the one that made it here via garbage truck. If you remember the complete story, then you remember where the Wolverine came from. Hint: it didn't walk here!!
> 
> We had ONE Wolverine in the state and lo and behold we had trailcam pics of it. We have hundreds and hundreds of "claimed" cougar sightings in the LP, yet not a single confirmed picture. Why do you suppose that is?
> 
> Sent from my HTC One X using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Ordinary - honest people like me are not packing a camera 24/7, but the personal account of seeing the animal is no less true.

Nowadays, I have a camera almost all of the time (phone). I think that is true for the majority of the adult population. So, I doubt it will be long before a photo is captured. I also doubt that the photo will be validated by the skeptics, but those of us that have seen a cougar with our own two eyes will believe it.


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## DEDGOOSE

Anish said:


> Another thing that I found interesting. I've been going up to Lovells for most of my life. I consider it my second home and we have quite a few family friends that live up there.
> Back about 13 years ago, I went into the gas station there and there was a picture hanging in there. It was a birch tree with some pretty serious claw marks going up it and way up in the tree was a deer.


Even if there were a few cougars in the NL, I highly doubt our deer are climbing trees to get away from them..


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## Swamp Monster

thisusernamevalid said:


> That's a valid argument and one that's brought up more by naysayers than the one wolverine argument.
> 
> Consider this: We know there is a population in the UP. Sightings up there had been going on for years and years, yet the DNR absolutely refused to acknowledge them until the had proof. That's fair enough, they can't go on record stating their existence until they know it to be a fact. However, it took the DNR until 2008 to confirm cougar in the UP, and that was from a trailcam pic and associated scat and tracks.
> 
> Now, move down to the LP. The same thing is going on, but it is assumed that if they are here, the population would be much, much smaller, probably a handful scattered around.
> 
> If it took until 2008 to get a photo in the UP with a higher population, it wouldn't be surprising to find that it will take a lot longer to get one down here.
> 
> Then you have this type of report or photo:
> 
> http://www.leelanau.com/blog/michigan-cougar-confirmation-leelanau-photos-seem-to-say-yes/
> 
> Does anyone really think that's a housecat? Again, the DNR says nope, not a cougar. Move along, nothing to see here. Yet they get them over and over and still refuse to acknowledge it.
> 
> Anyway, it's only a matter of time. If it's not tomorrow it'll be next week, month, or year. At some point the DNR will capitulate. Maybe when they can convince the feds to send them some money, because that's really what this is all about.
> 
> Follow the money. Always follow the money.


Not the leelanau mess again.....dead horse. 

My point is, everyone is seeing them supposedly.... yet not a single pic that can be confirmed. There are 1000's of trailcams out there. Yet nothing. Far more trail cams in the LP than the UP. Yet nothing. 

Personaly, I think it will be a matter of time.... However, at this point we have nothing. We have the MWC which are pretty much the ambulance chasers of the Cougar world and are a laughing stock.


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## Swamp Monster

Wolverick said:


> Swamp Monster, FYI, the garbage truck thing was discredited and no longer considered a possible means of transportation for that animal. Most people who have looked into it`s arrival now think it crossed over from Ontario.
> 
> The only thing I know of who has been compacted and lived to talk about it was the Shreader!


My point was, there was ONE lone transient Wolverine. And guess what? We found it! We got pictures of it! We tracked it! 

You mean to tell me that we have Cougar sightings all over the LP yet we can't find one? Really? You know why, because 99.9% of those sightings are guaranteed bunk! Yes these animals are reclusive but they are not mythical creatures and/or shape changers! I certainly don't discount a transient animal or two, and certainly not an escaped exotic that was illegally owned. But come on...people here want to believe every email they get, every newspaper article, every first or second hand account. Sorry, but that isn't enough. 

Do some research on witness testing...where they show several people the same scene and then ask each to describe it. The answers will surprise you. People see what they want to see, they see what they expect to see, they make assumptions on little information. So do I believe every eyewitness. Hell no. Doesn't mean they didn't see what they saw, but the odds favor skepticism.


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## MEL

thisusernamevalid said:


> Then you have this type of report or photo:
> 
> http://www.leelanau.com/blog/michigan-cougar-confirmation-leelanau-photos-seem-to-say-yes/
> y.



Here kitty-kitty. This was proven false a couple years ago.
A little info for the newer members here. Weve debunked the leelanau. Alpena. Martin and mesick cougars already. If someone sends you a email with a cougar pict do a search here of the hundreds of past cougar sightings threads. Chances are those picts were posted up here a few years ago.

Also. If its in the paper or on the 6pm news and they show a grainy, out of focus pict that looks like a kitty cat
Then assume its a kitty cat. Until PROVEN REAL!!!
Unless its from the UP.


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## sniperx043

Idc what the dnr say..I personally know there are cougars in the LP.. I personally saw one while on stand back in 2006.. had 2 does walk in all calm.. about 3-4mins after they came in.. the became on high alert and looking back.. and out of a brush line here comes the biggest cat I've ever seen in my life... came running out chasing the deer off. It stopped and climbed up on a fallen tree at about 50yrds away.. looked around for a few seconds and pursed the deer in the direction they left.. I was dumbfounded on what I had saw.. this was just by the muskegon/newaygo co border

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## Anish

DEDGOOSE said:


> Even if there were a few cougars in the NL, I highly doubt our deer are climbing trees to get away from them..


 
ROFLMAO!! :lol::lol::lol:
OMG!! :lol::lol: That's the BEST visual I've had in a long time!

Big cats put their prey up in trees to keep it safe from other predators or scavengers! 

:lol::lol::lol: Maybe we should be checking trees for hoof marks instead of claw marks! :lol:


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## BVW

What most people don't realize is that a few cat reports and trail cam pics in the up does not mean we have an established population. In order for cats to reproduce and Maintain populations you need females. Females don't travel very far from birth place, but the main thing you need is genetic diversity. Once again Google Florida panthers and genetic diversity. They have a hundred or so documented cats and they are finding the population is in trouble due to inbreeding. That is with over a hundred cats and many of these cats are hit by cars each year. So how is florida able to study them without snow and in the swamp? If we had more than a few cats here we could find them easily. Despite all the sightings and trail cam pics not a single cat in the flesh has been found in Michigan dead or alive. This is a very good indication that although there could be a few getting caught on cams in the up we would not have anywhere close to numbers to maintain a population or even start one.


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## Liver and Onions

thisusernamevalid said:


> Then you have this type of report or photo:
> 
> http://www.leelanau.com/blog/michigan-cougar-confirmation-leelanau-photos-seem-to-say-yes/
> 
> Does anyone really think that's a housecat? Again, the DNR says nope, not a cougar. Move along, nothing to see here. Yet they get them over and over and still refuse to acknowledge it.
> 
> ..............


Seriously ? I guess some will fall any lame MWC hoax.

L & O


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## Swamp Monster

Speaking of following the money.....who in this state has raised their profile and their donation basket intake due to Cougar histaria??

Hint; They have the initials M. W. C. 

:lol:


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## BVW

Liver and Onions said:


> Seriously ? I guess some will fall any lame MWC hoax.
> 
> L & O


This is a reason for so many " sightings" most people don't know what a cougar looks like. I think the neighbors near this sighting said this was their cat "patches" or something if i remember right. Its amazing what people will claim are cougars. also people report black panthers , no such animal , they are either jaguars or leopards with melanistic coloration.


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## DEDGOOSE

Anish said:


> ROFLMAO!! :lol::lol::lol:
> OMG!! :lol::lol: That's the BEST visual I've had in a long time!
> 
> Big cats put their prey up in trees to keep it safe from other predators or scavengers!
> 
> :lol::lol::lol: Maybe we should be checking trees for hoof marks instead of claw marks! :lol:


I figured I was raise a chuckle with that... 

2-3 years ago where we turkey hunt in SD the rancher had found a small deer in a tree and also had a couple of calves mauled by a couger in the weeks leading up to our hunt.. 

Just so happened where they were calving is my favorite stretch of the river to hunt and just had to be plum loaded with birds that year... It is a bit un settling leaving the truck at 4:30 am by yourself, no light and a 1-2 mile walk with a 20g loaded with 7s with a big cat recently in the area.


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## Anish

DEDGOOSE said:


> I figured I was raise a chuckle with that...
> 
> 2-3 years ago where we turkey hunt in SD the rancher had found a small deer in a tree and also had a couple of calves mauled by a couger in the weeks leading up to our hunt..
> 
> Just so happened where they were calving is my favorite stretch of the river to hunt and just had to be plum loaded with birds that year... It is a bit un settling leaving the truck at 4:30 am by yourself, no light and a 1-2 mile walk with a 20g loaded with 7s with a big cat recently in the area.


 
Oh, thank goodness!! I was hoping you were kidding :lol:!! 

:yikes: Ya, unsettling would be one way to put it!!


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## DFJISH

sniperx043 said:


> Idc what the dnr say..I personally know there are cougars in the LP.. I personally saw one while on stand back in 2006.. had 2 does walk in all calm.. about 3-4mins after they came in.. the became on high alert and looking back.. and out of a brush line here comes the biggest cat I've ever seen in my life... came running out chasing the deer off. It stopped and climbed up on a fallen tree at about 50yrds away.. looked around for a few seconds and pursed the deer in the direction they left.. I was dumbfounded on what I had saw.. this was just by the muskegon/newaygo co border
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


You refuse to believe wildlife biologists but YOU "know" there are cougars in the LP and then said you were "dumbfounded." It all makes perfect sense!
:lol:


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## Wolverick

I know how to settle this raging debate. Lets just all stand in a line and see how can pee the farthest. Winner takes all.


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## St. Clair Slayer

I deer hunt between N. Higgins Lake and Moorestown. My buddy that lives in Moorestown told us he had a cougar outside his house two summers back. We saw one cross 27 one afternoon. We were on North Higgins lake Road and it crossed south of the overpass about 75 yards from us. We stopped on the overpass and watched it for about 15-30 seconds.


Our buddy I mention above in Moorestown got one on his trail cam, July 17 2013. I saw the photo in October. I believe that there is a breeding population in the LP. Dead Stream Swamp is a big desolate place whit lots room for the cats to roam. I have also seen the same wolf twice by Military and Fletcher roads. A great big black dog. I was surprised how big he was!


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## Jager Pro

Wolverick said:


> I know how to settle this raging debate. Lets just all stand in a line and see how can pee the farthest. Winner takes all.


I'll prove to everyone that there are cougars in the LP by pissing the farthest!!! :lol:


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## sniperx043

DFJISH said:


> You refuse to believe wildlife biologists but YOU "know" there are cougars in the LP and then said you were "dumbfounded." It all makes perfect sense!
> :lol:


I refuse to listen to what they have to say now, after seeing the cougar with my own eyes.. I know what cougars look like and I know that was what I saw.. so when they say there is none in LP I laugh because I know..

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## ryan-b

St. Clair Slayer said:


> I deer hunt between N. Higgins Lake and Moorestown. My buddy that lives in Moorestown told us he had a cougar outside his house two summers back. We saw one cross 27 one afternoon. We were on North Higgins lake Road and it crossed south of the overpass about 75 yards from us. We stopped on the overpass and watched it for about 15-30 seconds.
> 
> 
> Our buddy I mention above in Moorestown got one on his trail cam, July 17 2013. I saw the photo in October. I believe that there is a breeding population in the LP. Dead Stream Swamp is a big desolate place whit lots room for the cats to roam. I have also seen the same wolf twice by Military and Fletcher roads. A great big black dog. I was surprised how big he was!


So let's see the pics!


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## MEL

ryan-b said:


> So let's see the pics!


Well, that aint gonna happen.


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## k9wernet

Steven Arend said:


> Here is one from Newberry taken yesterday morning @ 8:00am
> 
> Trail Cam Couger


Looks like the cougar you linked to is the one shot. I was reading an article about the poached animal and recognized the trail cam pic. Friend of yours?


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## chuckinduck

So if I'm reading st. Clair slayers post correctly. You've seen a cougar and a wolf in the lower peninsula? That is impressive.


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## DFJISH

This all comes from the mid-state region. A repeat customer brought in a fish to get mounted today. I've had some conversations with him before and always considered him intelligent and knowledgeable.
The conversation eventually led to coyotes. Then he asked if I had seen any *WOLVES* during rifle season. He said he saw 2 of them during deer season. Then he asked me about cougars. He claimed to have a friend with a pair of them on his trail camera. He said the DNR brought them in to control deer numbers, but sterilized them before releasing them so they wouldn't reproduce. *SAY WHAT????*
I was waiting in silence expecting him to wink and break out laughing, but this guy was serious. I replied to nothing. If I told him what I really thought he would probably have taken his fish elsewhere. It boggles the mind what some guys really believe about wolves and cougars in the LP.


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## Liver and Onions

DFJISH said:


> ...........
> . I've had some conversations with him before and always considered him intelligent and knowledgeable.
> ..........
> . It boggles the mind what some guys really believe about wolves and cougars in the LP.


Some people are intelligent, knowledgeable and gullible.

L & O


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## DFJISH

Obviously.


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## Wolverick

DFJISH, I was wondering why you just stood there starring at me! lol


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## Sasquatch Lives

My friend saw one cross his backyard in Saginaw Co. in 2006 I think and couldn't get anyone to come out and investigate it. Coincedentally, another guy he didn't even know reported seeing one two miles away three days later! Almost surely the same one and no one would investigate............Nothing since.


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## DFJISH

There's another one. :lol:


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## thisusernamevalid

DFJISH said:


> I was waiting in silence expecting him to wink and break out laughing, but this guy was serious. I replied to nothing. If I told him what I really thought he would probably have taken his fish elsewhere. It boggles the mind what some guys really believe about wolves and cougars in the LP.


And hopefully he's not a forum contibutor... 

A question:

Of the people on here who claim to have seen a cougar in a lower, know someone who claims to have seen one, has a friend who knows someone who's seen one...and for the sake of this discussion, let's even check with those who's second cousin's aunt on their mother's side has a coworker who's uncle's brother saw one....

How many have claimed to see a Bigfoot?

I'll start:

No. 

So, how many?


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## MomOfFour

We saw a cougar south of Houghton Lake, it was unmistakeable, a clear view of the cat.


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## DEDGOOSE

MomOfFour said:


> We saw a cougar south of Houghton Lake, it was unmistakeable, a clear view of the cat.


We need to start having the cougar threads in the Sound Off for the thirty day rule so we do not get all these 1 and 2 posters in these threads.


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## N.E. Outdoorsman

DEDGOOSE said:


> We need to start having the cougar threads in the Sound Off for the thirty day rule so we do not get all these 1 and 2 posters in these threads.


Cougar cop?


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## Robert Holmes

Okay the DNR claims no Cougars in the LP and maybe some wolves and no Sasquatch. When you look at the hunting guide it is legal to shoot a Sasquatch but you cannot shoot cougars or wolves. You would think that if they don't exist in the LP than you could shoot them. If one is shot than it ends the argument. It could be profitable if the DNR would open a season in the LP for cougars, wolves, and sasquatch. I would like to throw a sasquatch license in with my collection of unfilled deer tags. :lol:


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## thisusernamevalid

Robert Holmes said:


> I would like to throw a sasquatch license in with my collection of unfilled deer tags. :lol:


Ok, but you have to buy the 'base license' first!

Don't forget, the Finding Bigfoot crew came here and said Michigan's northern lower woods look 'pretty squatchy'. Those guys are professionals! (ie: they get paid for doing that) 

Now, have you ever heard a professional say our northern lower woods look 'cougary', or 'wolfy'? No. 

So, logic dictates that it's more likely we have sasquatch in the lower than wolf or cougar. 

Just sayin'.


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## DFJISH

Even photos can't be considered "proof" because so many have been mis-identified or photo-shopped or a cougar from another state. The definitive proof of a cougar *in the LP* is a either a dead or live one and as of today none has been produced. Tracks, scat, hair, etc. are considered "evidence" but.... evidence is always subject to interpretation. The comparison of a cougar in the LP to a sasquatch (anywhere) is fair. Lots of "reports" but never any proof.


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## HuCoSportsman

Say what you all will. I know I don't have camera or visual proof; but I've heard one two different times. I live within a couple miles of where the wolverine was discovered by the neighbors running dogs sometime ago. 
I was out in my garage this summer with overhead door open about 1 in the morning and heard the most guttural growl/screech type noise. Came from across the road in my neighbor's 40. Talked to the neighbor the very next day and he heard the same thing 3 days prior. Would literally make anyone's hair stand up on the back of your neck. 
I've heard this same type of growl before about 10 years ago while deer hunting about a mile away from where I live. Next thing ya know I got 20 deer underneath me looking back into the woods. I had deer literally 15 ft underneath me and I'm talkin on cell phone in treestand. Deer weren't scared of me. I left stand before dark and walked past two deer in the hayfield literally within 10ft. of me and they never got up to run. There was some sort of evil in that woods; the only noise I can relate that to is a cougar. 
Could be same cat that is heard over by brown city. These cats cover a range of 100 miles a day. And as far as where it lives; we have thousands of acres of state ground nearby from the petroglyphs to the argyle swamp. I know everyone here will look at me like just another bullshi--er but I know what I heard and it wasn't no house cat, bobcat, badger, yote..definitely mountain lion/cougar.


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