# Logging



## River raider (Dec 25, 2017)

Purshased property for deer hunting. Walked the property and found that it has a large number of poplar bigger than any I have ever seen. I could not put my arms around them. I do not have the equipment to handle logs that large. I'm just curious as to what to do with them, I think they should be harvested so new growth could flourish. Thank you for your consideration.


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## Rasputin (Jan 13, 2009)

How far you are from a mill is an important question.


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## River raider (Dec 25, 2017)

I don't know of a mill that handles logs 3 ft in dia. They are not that common in my area, most have been logged off years ago.


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## River raider (Dec 25, 2017)

At my age I couldn't even handle a ruff cut board 3 ft x 16 ft any more. How would a person get them finished for panels?


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## Forest Meister (Mar 7, 2010)

River raider said:


> I don't know of a mill that handles logs 3 ft in dia. They are not that common in my area, most have been logged off years ago.


Got any pics? I have seen cottonwood 3' in diameter but cannot recall the last time I saw a poplar of that size.

Cottonwood or aspen, the wood generally tends to crack pretty severely if air dried. FM


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## River raider (Dec 25, 2017)

I built a barn several years ago and used poplar board for roof sheeting, took it from the mill and installed it . The boards were covered with tar paper and shingled within a week. Turned out perfect, that was forty years ago .


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## River raider (Dec 25, 2017)

My main purpose for the walk today was to check for deer activity on the property. For the last week or so the weather in northeast Michigan has been bitter cold. The next time I go I'm taking a tape measure and camera. I'm 62 and never seen poplar that large , the only tree in this area with a larger dia is white pine . I sure hope I can find a market for the logs.


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

Quite a few Amish mills in the north east side.
How far from Grayling are you?


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## River raider (Dec 25, 2017)

I buy a lot of oak lumber from the Amish in the Mio area. I'm thinking of hiring a registered Forster to evaluate the timber stand and find out if there is a market for logs that large.If I was ten years younger I would purchase a log ban saw and only harvest what I would have a market for. I had a cousin sever years ago that sold his poplar to a window manufacturer.


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

Check with the county conservation district forester in your county.


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## River raider (Dec 25, 2017)

Thank you, just sent her a email(Brook Alloway)


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

The ones they cut from mine that were 2 foot or so went to a sawmill I think by Luther. I don't remember what the forester said they did with the lumber from there


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## River raider (Dec 25, 2017)

Most buildings material manufacturing like hardboard , now only deal in wood chips. Lumber would be the only value that I can think of. Most saw mills went out of business when the auto industry stopped buying pallet stock. And most of them couldn't handle logs that large.


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

River raider said:


> Most buildings material manufacturing like hardboard , now only deal in wood chips. Lumber would be the only value that I can think of. Most saw mills went out of business when the auto industry stopped buying pallet stock. And most of them couldn't handle logs that large.


I don't know where you get that but many still cut hardwood logs as large as 36 to 40 inches. When I had my woodmizer I cut a lot of trees 30 inches and some larger but they were to much work. I was told they use poplar for throw away pallets.


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## River raider (Dec 25, 2017)

I worked in the hardboard industry for over thirty years. The largest logs we could ship was 20 dia. and they had to be straight. They did away with the chipping process about 15 years ago and only by chips now.


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## River raider (Dec 25, 2017)

Poplar is a very nice hardwood as long as there isn't any heart wood . Most pallet manufacturers used low grade and small logs . Saw logs for pallet stock didn't need to be very large , most pallet members aren't very large. I have had 24 inch logs of pine cut on a band saw when I built my log home.


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

River raider said:


> I worked in the hardboard industry for over thirty years. The largest logs we could ship was 20 dia. and they had to be straight. They did away with the chipping process about 15 years ago and only by chips now.


There are a lot of mills around that still handle the big logs but are getting fewer as the log size goes down. I bet any amish mill will be able to saw them. I had one the wind took down that was 26 inchs and I sawed 2x8 out of it and they are under the attic floor in my garage. Man of the mills thaare larger use big bandsaw now. They are a couple here by me but they don't take anything over 10 or 12 inches because they are computer operated. Talk to a forester he will be your best bet


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

I think 32 inches is about all my saw will handle, without taking guides and guards off of it


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## River raider (Dec 25, 2017)

Meeting with the conservation district official on the property tomorrow. Excited about her recommendations and references for Forester and logging firm. Most of all to manage the property for its greatest potential for habitat and wildlife. I may never see the end results but my son and grandsons will and I find joy in that.


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

Aspen is actually classed as a hardwood. It makes some great paneling similar to knotty pine. Once the boards are straightened they can be made into paneling with a shaper. I made quite a lot of it when I was working with my cousin at his saw mill. I hated making it out of spruce as it did not come out of the planer that smooth, it wanted to chip some in the planer.

I found out that you need to have the hold down rollers set on a slight angle toward the blades of the shaper so that the board was held tight to the blades.

He used a woodmizer saw mill to cut lumber. I do not remember how big of logs we sawed. He had one big log that he had planed on splitting to get it on the mill. He planed on splitting it using a series of holes filled with black powder set off with dynamite fuse. Sadly he passed away before he got to do it.


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## River raider (Dec 25, 2017)

I'm researching quarter sawn poplar. Can't say I have ever seen it , but I would create a stress free lumber for painting if nothing else.


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

multibeard said:


> Aspen is actually classed as a hardwood. It makes some great paneling similar to knotty pine. Once the boards are straightened they can be made into paneling with a shaper. I made quite a lot of it when I was working with my cousin at his saw mill. I hated making it out of spruce as it did not come out of the planer that smooth, it wanted to chip some in the planer.
> 
> I found out that you need to have the hold down rollers set on a slight angle toward the blades of the shaper so that the board was held tight to the blades.
> 
> He used a woodmizer saw mill to cut lumber. I do not remember how big of logs we sawed. He had one big log that he had planed on splitting to get it on the mill. He planed on splitting it using a series of holes filled with black powder set off with dynamite fuse. Sadly he passed away before he got to do it.


I had a guy bring a big oak log to me to saw and he used black powder to split it. When he got done the log split in 4 equal pieces. I said to him it looks like you done that before. He said no this the first time a guy that I worked ith told me how to do it. I had several builders that I saweed a lot of poplar for and they dried it then had trim made out of it. There are several housing place snorth of Holland that I sawed all the floors in them for some of the builders. Many of them I sawed out most of the trim for them. The selling point they used to sell them was the floors and trim came off the lot where the houses were built on


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

River raider said:


> I'm researching quarter sawn poplar. Can't say I have ever seen it , but I would create a stress free lumber for painting if nothing else.


Once dryed poplar is stable but drying it you getsme loss. I have a pile of board here that I sawed out of a tree that went down and they are fairly straight and are all flat no twist


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## River raider (Dec 25, 2017)

The trick is don't let it get wet after being sawn. Once dried it will be ok but very hard to nail .


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

If you paint the ends of the boards it will slow down the drying from the end grain and really help to reduce checks ( end cracks along grain lines) . If you look at the drawers in any fine old furniture, you would find that more often than not the drawer box is constructed of poplar, only the drawer face is the fancy wood. That because popple is pretty dimensionally stable when dried, and assure proper fitting drawers for a long time. Popple is also quite common as a back side veneer for the same reason.


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

One reason that Grand Rapids had so many furniture factories was the abundance of American Elm. It is as stable and strong wood that was used in the frame work of the furniture.
I used a lot of the regroth of elm after Dutch elm disease had killed the majority of the elm. This regroth had also died. It made the best fire wood though hard to split. I have ever burnt. It would sit and glow in the wood furnace. When I cleaned out the furnace there were clinkers like you would find when burning coal.


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

multibeard said:


> One reason that Grand Rapids had so many furniture factories was the abundance of American Elm. It is as stable and strong wood that was used in the frame work of the furniture.
> I used a lot of the regroth of elm after Dutch elm disease had killed the majority of the elm. This regroth had also died. It made the best fire wood though hard to split. I have ever burnt. It would sit and glow in the wood furnace. When I cleaned out the furnace there were clinkers like you would find when burning coal.


You forgot the part about the whie mushrooms growing around the dead trees LOL


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## feedinggrounds (Jul 21, 2009)

I know of a 100 year old barn that used poplar rounds for interior floor joist bark on, that still store a lot of hay. My cabins bunk beds are poplar rounds 4-5 inch barkless. Cut them in spring and the bark peeled so clean. Just had to dry it till fall.


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## feedinggrounds (Jul 21, 2009)

multibeard said:


> One reason that Grand Rapids had so many furniture factories was the abundance of American Elm. It is as stable and strong wood that was used in the frame work of the furniture.
> I used a lot of the regroth of elm after Dutch elm disease had killed the majority of the elm. This regroth had also died. It made the best fire wood though hard to split. I have ever burnt. It would sit and glow in the wood furnace. When I cleaned out the furnace there were clinkers like you would find when burning coal.


Some of that stuff screws while splitting.


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## B.Jarvinen (Jul 12, 2014)

The best advice was already taken - start with your local Conservation District Forester for a free, non-biased explanation of what your property holds, and the possibilities of commercial harvest. Those Foresters do not work for a mill, nor will they set up a timber sale for you and thus their advice and information isn't colored by what might be in it for themselves.

One shouldn't over-think what can happen to the logs one sees on a property. All markets are local, and current market conditions change. A stand of Aspen/Popple that is too old can sometimes be worth less than one that is younger, I think, some of it can be sawn, some of it probably can't. There are probably many more considerations for managing the property as a whole, beyond a starting point idea of removing some large Poplar.


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## River raider (Dec 25, 2017)

We plan on developing the old field areas separately from the mature logging operation. Looking at switch grass and red dogwood on the edges , plant buckwheat to plow under for the fall food planting. 4 watering holes and blind construction. We are not going to let those large poplar to be chipped for hardboard . We are not as eager to harvest the logs as developing other aspects. But to have the plan prior to doing some work and then have it damaged by the logging operation. Do it once and do it the best we can. The more advice from the professionals the better the end results.


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## feedinggrounds (Jul 21, 2009)

River raider said:


> We plan on developing the old field areas separately from the mature logging operation. Looking at switch grass and red dogwood on the edges , plant buckwheat to plow under for the fall food planting. 4 watering holes and blind construction. We are not going to let those large poplar to be chipped for hardboard . We are not as eager to harvest the logs as developing other aspects. But to have the plan prior to doing some work and then have it damaged by the logging operation. Do it once and do it the best we can. The more advice from the professionals the better the end results.


I have seen really big solid poplar, and have seen 2- 100 inchers lobbed off before you get solid. Still impressive they get that big without blowing over. Some real heavy stuff when green.


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## feedinggrounds (Jul 21, 2009)

You may cut 1 of those poplars get 2-5 logs and chip the rest. I always hired crews that logged and chipped for a much cleaner finish. And the most money. I am down to 1 company now I trust, a lot. But I am still on site daily when they are. The finish appearance is very important to my purpose.


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## River raider (Dec 25, 2017)

A 16 ft log would be over 4000 pounds. Logs can be drilled to check if they are solid. I too am surprised that not many have ever blown over but as I looked at them they didn't have much for limbs on top.


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## River raider (Dec 25, 2017)

What is not large enough for logs will be left for wild life.


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## feedinggrounds (Jul 21, 2009)

River raider said:


> What is not large enough for logs will be left for wild life.


For cover? Green poplar tops that big have lots of tonnage when chipped and removed. You may have more cover and feed very quick without them shading and cluttering the ground.. I can show you several examples with different ages of cut. on different specie, big poplar too, Not too far from Grayling. PM me if your interested. PS, bolts can be had from big limbs.


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## River raider (Dec 25, 2017)

I think I would enjoy meeting you and discussing the options of planting after a logging as well the chipping of the limbs. I will buy lunch .Ron


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## Scout 2 (Dec 31, 2004)

When they cut the bigs ones I had I figured that the center would be rotten as the ones the wind blew over had rottencenters. They were solid all the way thru but some of them the tops were starting to get bad. He had some to cut by the neighbors garage that were off mine and when he cut the first one the top broke off, luckly if went away from the garage. When he cut the rest he reached up and cut it off way up to get around the bad spot. They sent the tops for pulp. These trees were not cut when the resst was before we bought the property and we have owned it for 30 years. I did not know that poplar would last that long. Around here some of the old barns have popular boards on them for siding. My grandparents barn all the joists under the hay mow was poplar and many still had the bark on them


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## River raider (Dec 25, 2017)

Poplar , like jack pine is so underrated for its fine qualities.


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## feedinggrounds (Jul 21, 2009)

River raider said:


> I think I would enjoy meeting you and discussing the options of planting after a logging as well the chipping of the limbs. I will buy lunch .Ron


I can show you a few different examples all on the same property. Just let me know. We did plantings also, fairways, putting greens and native regrowth.


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