# looking to buy first pistol



## huntmichigan (Nov 18, 2005)

Im looking to buy my first pistol, ive decided i want to go with a glock but cant seem to decide between a 9mm or a .40 cal. What do you guys recommend??


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## tedshunter (Dec 27, 2004)

I have the Model 23 in .40. a .40 has alot more knock down power in my opinion. and there is not that much of a diffrence in price for ammo.I would go with the .40.I have never been a big fan of the 9mm. 115 gr versus 180 grain....for .40 cal. I also have a S&W Chief Special the one in my avatar in .40 too. but I have the black one not silver model. Love them both


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## WoW (Oct 26, 2010)

9mm


easier on the recoil, way easier on the wallet.


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

I'd go even farther. In my opinion, everyone should buy a Ruger autoloader in some variation as their first handgun. Go through about 10,000 rounds of .22 long rifle and you will then be in a much better position to evaluate what you like or don't like in a larger bore handgun. Ruger .22's are just too much fun to shoot and you can learn how to properly shoot a pistol without breaking the bank. They are also great for teaching women and kids how to shoot safely and become proficient with a handgun. No well rounded gun cabinet is complete without a nice little .22 autoloader in it. 

Might want to look at this thread.

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=377079


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## huntmichigan (Nov 18, 2005)

any one know the average cost of the glock 22


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## WoW (Oct 26, 2010)

huntmichigan said:


> any one know the average cost of the glock 22


You mean G 17 don't you?

Anyway, about 5 bens new


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## Rustyaxecamp (Mar 1, 2005)

not if he wants the 40. Price is the same.. ~$500


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## Rustyaxecamp (Mar 1, 2005)

With regards to "knockdown" power - at self defense ranges, stoked with modern self defense ammo, the difference between the 9 and 40 is nill.

That being said, I opted for the 40.

The 9 would be cheaper for blasting ammo.


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## huntmichigan (Nov 18, 2005)

the glock 17 is the 9mm the 22 is the .40 cal


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## superposed20ga (Dec 14, 2005)

Keep an eye out for used one's. I've seen used in really good shape for $425 with some spare mags. In theory, as tough as Glock's are, a used one should just be broken in as long as it wasn't abused.


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## agross (Jan 18, 2009)

I just got my first pistol a couple of weeks ago and I love it. I went with a Smith and Wesson M&P .40 cal. I got it during Smith and Wesson days so I got it cheaper than the Glock and I like the look and feel of it better than the Glock. If the Glock is what you like than go for it. I don't think you will regret going with the 40 instead of the 9mm if thats what you decide.


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## Diggdug (Sep 20, 2001)

If you plan to shoot the gun much at all (which you should) get a 9mm, and use some good ammo while CCW. If you plan to shoot a couple hundred rounds a year I'd go with the .40

You can get 9mm ball for about $9/box on the net. If you ever decide to take a Tactical Handgun class, you will be glad you got the 9mm.

BTW, Randy Cain of Cumberland Tactics will be in Fenton this summer. I highly recomend his TH101 class for anyone who CCW's.


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## perchpile88 (Dec 30, 2009)

i thought i wanted a g 22 untill i picked up a sr40 100 bucks less too


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## WoW (Oct 26, 2010)

huntmichigan said:


> the glock 17 is the 9mm the 22 is the .40 cal


 
I get it...

If you recall, I did not recommend a forty for a first pistol.


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## Whitetail1 (Oct 17, 2008)

Any Glock is a good one. The 9mm is cheaper to shoot. Remember...ya cant shoot straight lead bullets through a Glock. They have to be jacketed or plated. The G19 carries well. The 17 and the 22 are great shooters too. Congrats.


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## Whitetail1 (Oct 17, 2008)

huntmichigan said:


> any one know the average cost of the glock 22


 Johnsons in Adrian Michigan is about the cheapest right now. I beleive they are $499.00


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## DaGuy (Jan 13, 2011)

huntmichigan, are you an EMT, firefighter or police? Or, do you know one that is a good friend? Glock has a program that allows service groups to purchase at special prices. A friend of mine, and several of his buddies purchased Glocks (19s & 26s) with 3 mags for $420. OTD. Different gun shops offer similar but not necessarily the same pricing. Just FYI. If you have a connection you could save a few bucks. You cannot go wrong with a Glock.


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## FreeTime (Jan 8, 2001)

Depends on what the use is. Is this a conceal carry gun? Is it for fun target shooting? Ect. 

What you plan to use the gun for maybe very important to your decision. 

If its target shooting go with the 9mm, if your looking for protection go with the .40. The price unfront isnt the issue nor is size as they are very close. Ammo on the .40 will be significantly higher over time if you shoot a lot but knowing you have that extra power is nice. 
For plinking away on a Saturday afternoon my Springfield 9 is great and affordable. The Glock 21sf(.45) gets you tired and in expensive. 

Just me .02
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cleew (Apr 12, 2011)

Just to stir the pot a tad, forget the 9mm or 40 S&W (Short & Weak). Go with the original 40, the 10mm. Sure, the FBI desk-sitters complained the recoil was a bit much but their HRT guys never had that problem. Save a couple of bucks and buy an aftermarket 6" barrel for it and you can shoot lead all day long. Have about 10,000 rounds through my Jarvis barrel and even got a 350# boar last year in Missouri ... head shot at about 25 yards. Kinda like a 30-06, extremely versatile, light lead loads for inexpensive fun, heavy XTP loads for more serious work. Only 2 FTF's in about 12,000 rounds and that was because I never cleaned the gunk (a technical term I think) from around the firing pin causing too light a hit on the primer. I now clean that area about every 5,000 rounds (also put in the maritime-waterproof-spring cups while I had it apart) and no more Failure to Fire issues. If you can reload, you've got it all  ... 38 Special ballistics and recoil with lead bullets and a tad more oomph than a 357 Mag with 200 gr XTP bullets. Go for it!


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## Mi500 (Jan 19, 2011)

I am looking to buy a pistol soon, i have decided to go with the Glock 23. i was trying to decide between the Glock 19 and 23 and decided that i would just get both. i am going to buy the 23 and get the 9mm conversion barrel and a couple 9mm mags for it.


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## BIG TITAN (Jun 7, 2011)

Get the 40 shoot it for a while and if u decide its to much get a lone wolf barrel for it in 9 mm problem solved
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jim..47 (May 5, 2009)

Why do you think you want a Glock?

Have you shot and compared others?

Have you shot the 1911?

I have shot Glock and I know they are prefered by Policeman but I find the trigger extremely hared to pull making for potentialy inaccurate shots.


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## cleew (Apr 12, 2011)

They may or not be "preferred" by law enforcement personnel but they carry them because they were given them. Police are not necessarily the folks to ask regarding which caliber or which pistol is "best." Hopefully, they never have to use their firearm in anger and any number of them shoot only when they have to qualify. Go to a number of ranges, find out if they have competition shooting or "fun" shoots, watch and ask those folks questions. Most people will tell you the "best" one is whatever they have. Try and shoot them all: 380, 9mm, 40, 10mm ... all are sufficient for protection if you hit what you're aiming at.


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## KeithD (Mar 8, 2010)

No such thing as knockdown power in modern defense calibers.

9 mike is cheaper, lower recoil, higher round count.

you can shoot straight lead out of a Glock you just need to clean the barrel with lead solvent and a wire brush every 300-400 rounds.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

KeithD said:


> *No such thing as knockdown power in modern defense calibers.*
> 
> 9 mike is cheaper, lower recoil, higher round count.
> 
> you can shoot straight lead out of a Glock you just need to clean the barrel with lead solvent and a wire brush every 300-400 rounds.


*No such thing as knockdown power in modern defense calibers.* Do you care to explain this statement?


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## Hoppe's no.10 (Sep 16, 2007)

petronius said:


> *No such thing as knockdown power in modern defense calibers.* Do you care to explain this statement?



Taken from: "The Shooter's Guide to the Browning Hi-Power" by Stephen A. Camp - retired Texas LE officer and somewhat of a pistol guru.

Camp gives instances from his LE career where a large man is hit in the chest with a .25ACP and dies almost instantly and where a woman is shot in the chest with a .45ACP and runs several blocks escaping from her attacker and surviving her wound.

He also details instances of other shootings - in between these two extreme examples - and ends with - "What this tells me is that all pistol calibers commonly used for defense are weak for the task."

"These pistol rounds (9mm, 40 S&W, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .44 Special, .45ACP, and .45 Colt) are just not as potent as we all wish they were."

His advice - learn to shoot well, bullet placement is more important than caliber and go with the "best" load per caliber but don't expect "monumental" differences in effectiveness from one of the above common pistol cartridges to the other.

Hoppe's no.10


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## KeithD (Mar 8, 2010)

Hoppe's no.10 said:


> Taken from: "The Shooter's Guide to the Browning Hi-Power" by Stephen A. Camp - retired Texas LE officer and somewhat of a pistol guru.
> 
> Camp gives instances from his LE career where a large man is hit in the chest with a .25ACP and dies almost instantly and where a woman is shot in the chest with a .45ACP and runs several blocks escaping from her attacker and surviving her wound.
> 
> ...


And there it is. People that say, " i carry this because i only will have to do.." are already behind the curve for self defense.

There are thousands of documented shootings with varies pistol calibers involved. the only thing consistent... is that nothing is consistent. People die from one, people wont die from 20... you never know.

look at hunting, ive shot a deer at 100 yds taken out a lung and the heart and it dropped dead right there. next deer, same distance, same bullet, same shot placement and he ran 150 yds... if there was such thing as knock down power where did it go from deer one to deer 2? nothing is certain and nothing is 100 percent.

You have to realize handguns especially suck at killing people.

The three main ways to stop a threat:

Brain box:

top of eye brows to upper cheek bone. Almost always a instant debilitating shot. almost there are cases and i believe a video out there of a guy getting shot in between the eyes with a 5.54 from an AK74 and sitting up in the hospital bed talking and holding a bed pan to catch the blood dripping from the wound.

Problem is this is a very small, hardened area to hit while your moving and they're moving..all under stress.

Second, Spinal column... same as above hardened behind bone and soft tissue and a relatively small target to hit on the move.


3rd, and most common, Loss of blood pressure. Putting as many holes in as many vital oragans as quickly as possible. The goal here is to cause a traumatic drop in blood pressure as quickly as possible. We do this by placing as many shots in COM as quickly as we can.

9 mike allows be to put more hole in COM faster. and have the round count to deal with multiple threats.

its physics, YOU may be able to shoot a .40 cal faster and more accurately than ME, but YOU can shoot a 9 mm faster and more accuartatly than YOU can a 40. cal.


to each there own, make'em count.


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## Jim..47 (May 5, 2009)

i think shot placement is important, and taking time to take that shot to do the hurt you intend instead of a nervous getter done and run shot, but also there is some thing else that many never care to consider. I think it was some timeago that I read once about FBI loads, at any rate it was law inforcement. They were shooting 40's, but there bullets were light and their loads even lighter. I don't know if this was to accomadate the women agents of give protection to bystanders, but get real, why shoot the guy if you can't take him down.

I also read once about a western sherrif dept, I think Texas, and how many fugitives they had get away from 44 mags. I don't recall the loads or bullets but at least they were using a real stopping power gun. 

I think our gun mfg.s should be working on an auto to handle full load 44's with reduced recoil for law inforcement. I've shot 44's and larger for years and my hands are a wreck. I now have to step down to lighter guns n loads but our young law enforcement officers should all be able to handle 44's or at minimum 357's full loads or hollow points.


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## KeithD (Mar 8, 2010)

Jim..47 said:


> i think shot placement is important, and taking time to take that shot to do the hurt you intend instead of a nervous getter done and run shot, but also there is some thing else that many never care to consider. I think it was some timeago that I read once about FBI loads, at any rate it was law inforcement. They were shooting 40's, but there bullets were light and their loads even lighter. I don't know if this was to accomadate the women agents of give protection to bystanders, but get real, why shoot the guy if you can't take him down.
> 
> I also read once about a western sherrif dept, I think Texas, and how many fugitives they had get away from 44 mags. I don't recall the loads or bullets but at least they were using a real stopping power gun.
> 
> I think our gun mfg.s should be working on an auto to handle full load 44's with reduced recoil for law inforcement. I've shot 44's and larger for years and my hands are a wreck. I now have to step down to lighter guns n loads but our young law enforcement officers should all be able to handle 44's or at minimum 357's full loads or hollow points.


but your not accounting for things other than wound balistics in soft tissue.

things like round count and recoil management. There is a big difference between "handling" a pistol and running it fast and efficiently.

I can handle a .454 but i can put 10 rounds on COM with a 9mm in the time i could put 2 on with the hand cannon.

this is not directed at anyone personally:

We need to focus on every aspect of our caliber choice, not just the size of hole or what the guy at billy bobs guns of fun says is the best caliber.

Look at cost, recoil management, round count, reload speed, and performance of the round. then make the best decision for you.

for me and many of the top tier 1 trainers in the world... 9mm fits the bill. YMMV


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## Jim..47 (May 5, 2009)

No disrespect Keith, but if I had a really big ugly guy coming at me with a big knife and I had my choice of my own two pistols, I might put down the 45acp and pick up the 44mag single shot with home loads cause I know I can hit them and I know he is going down.

See, I'm from the old world before autos became popular or even into exhistance. The first shot is the only one that is needed, and the only reason to have more then one shot is if there are more then 1 bad guy


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## KeithD (Mar 8, 2010)

Jim..47 said:


> No disrespect Keith, but if I had a really big ugly guy coming at me with a big knife and I had my choice of my own two pistols, I might put down the 45acp and pick up the 44mag single shot with home loads cause I know I can hit them and I know he is going down.
> 
> See, I'm from the old world before autos became popular or even into exhistance. The first shot is the only one that is needed, and the only reason to have more then one shot is if there are more then 1 bad guy



No disrespect taken at all... its the internet.


But in my opinion "old school" is just that. with anything there is new information and better ways of doing things being developed by end users everyday. staying in the "old school" in my opinion, puts you dangerously behind the curve.

But after all its just my opinion, and im no one special.


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## WoW (Oct 26, 2010)

Jim..47 said:


> No disrespect Keith, but if I had a really big ugly guy coming at me with a big knife and I had my choice of my own two pistols, I might put down the 45acp and pick up the 44mag single shot with home loads cause I know I can hit them and I know he is going down.
> 
> See, I'm from the old world before autos became popular or even into exhistance. The first shot is the only one that is needed, and the only reason to have more then one shot is if there are more then 1 bad guy


And you ku now that he is not wearing body armor and or high on drugs or a mental case and you just know your .44 mag single shot is going to put him down how again?

I am from the old world too and also know that anybody that shoots just once because they are under the impression that one shot is gonna do it....well, all I can say is that my life means more to me than I want to gamble with on any pistol cartridge and some rifle cartridges being 1 shot manstoppers 100% of the time.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

Hoppe's no.10 said:


> Taken from: "The Shooter's Guide to the Browning Hi-Power" by Stephen A. Camp - retired Texas LE officer and somewhat of a pistol guru.
> 
> Camp gives instances from his LE career where a large man is hit in the chest with a .25ACP and dies almost instantly and where a woman is shot in the chest with a .45ACP and runs several blocks escaping from her attacker and surviving her wound.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I never liked the term "knockdown power". It implies that the victim is going to go flying backwards and land on his back. There's a lot of great bullets designed to fragment on impact causing extreme internal trauma.


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## Jim..47 (May 5, 2009)

Ok guys, I admit I was trying to get a raise and I'm happy to see that I can at least do that , but you are right. I knew that before. I would certainly keep my "man killer" close by, but it would be 45acp in my hand and firing when needed, unless I had my shotgun loaded. 

One can never count on a single shot unless you have inside their throat. As for me, I could easiely stumble, at least if I was managed to hold onto my 45 I would have as much chance as him to get off the first shot that meant anything.

But seriously, I doubt that ever happens. I just hope it never happens to my wife or children either.


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