# Time for a change.



## morchella man (Apr 13, 2010)

It is time for them to improve the steal head environment in the Clinton river. Starting at Yates, they should build a fish ladder so fish have a chance to spawn further up river. Second, they should build a fish ladder around the other small dams leading up to Stoney creek parks lake. Stoney creek would be the perfect resting point for the fish before they push even further north up the river. After Yates, there are canals and lil streams where the would love to wonder through. It is up to use to change their environment for urge better


----------



## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

Sounds like a lot of work and money for a river which only has the capability for very minimal natural reproduction...


----------



## sweet tree (Apr 30, 2006)

Steelhead jump that dam with little effort...its not that big and the flow isnt strong enough to stop them when they are headed upstream. Many do spawn in Paint creek and you will catch smolts all the way up to Lake Orion. Stony creek is a warm water stream that holds minimal trout.

I'm not saying that you have any bad ideas though. The structure from yates down could be improved greatly since there IS some natural reproduction in that river.


----------



## Drisc13 (May 6, 2009)

show me the money! 

I've said the same things about dams on the kalamazoo river on west side....great ideas, but $$$


----------



## Putman Lake Campground (Oct 4, 2010)

morchella man said:


> It is time for them to improve the steal head environment in the Clinton river. Starting at Yates, they should build a fish ladder so fish have a chance to spawn further up river. Second, they should build a fish ladder around the other small dams leading up to Stoney creek parks lake. Stoney creek would be the perfect resting point for the fish before they push even further north up the river. After Yates, there are canals and lil streams where the would love to wonder through. It is up to use to change their environment for urge better



i say we use the Gov't dollars used to plant fish and divert them into enhancing Michigans mushroom growth!!!

More Morals and Puff Balls and Stumpers for everybody!!
:help:

(I just couldn't resist!!!!)


----------



## The Downstream Drift (Feb 27, 2010)

sweet tree said:


> Steelhead jump that dam with little effort...its not that big and the flow isnt strong enough to stop them when they are headed upstream. Many do spawn in Paint creek and you will catch smolts all the way up to Lake Orion. Stony creek is a warm water stream that holds minimal trout..


This topic comes up from time to time and Sweet Tree stated exactly what you will hear from our fisheries biologists. 

The fisheries division has told me that the dam at Yates works as a great block for invasive species making it up river. They also have mentioned that they do not want the steelhead in Paint Creek completing with the browns in the river for food. (I've heard the arguements both way on this but this is what I've been told.)

Stony Creek will most likely never see anything done to improve it as a trout or steelhead fishery. Remember, years ago Stony was planted with trout but due to the very warm summer water temps and horrible public access to the creek this program was discontinued. 

The guys here have made a great point about the money needed for these types of projects. This money would (IMO) be much better spent on erosion control improvements along the river below Yates and in River Bends park. As anyone who has fished it has seen, the banks are caving in allowing sediment to cover the gravel and cobble. Even though we very little if any natural reproduction, we still need this gravel to continue with our "put and grow" fishery. 

Some of this money could be spent on woody debris management projects in the river as well. We have all seen some of the major issues in the Clinton due to fallen logs stacking up and causing more erosion.

This is always a great topic to discuss though. I would urge you guys to start sharing your ideas with the DNR, DEQ and the watershed council. These groups need to hear from the guys that use the river so they have an idea of what we, as fishermen, want done.


----------



## fishinDon (May 23, 2002)

I saw a presentation by the DNR back in Feb that showed how much it cost to build and maintain the fish ladders on the St. Joe and it was staggering. Something like 25 million dollars, and then on top of that there's like a 150K per year ongoing maintenance cost, with an occasional big hit which runs costs even higher. 

I forget what they put the value of angler days at on the St. Joe, but they figured it would take over 30 years to recover the money spent to build those ladders.

The conclusion of the presentation was either to live with the dams or figure out how to get the community, power company or whoever to remove them. But fish ladders, I don't believe, are the wave of the future...they're just simply too expensive.

Don


----------



## tsr770 (Mar 3, 2010)

I can only imagine the money it takes to build and maintain ladders on big dams. 

The City of Monroe and the DNR have recieved money from the feds to build fish passages for the low head dams in Monroe and upstream on the Raisin. Those types of dams around the state would probably also qualify for funding like the Raisin has. They are building more or less ramps down the faces of them. It's a initial cost up front, but in the long run there is little upkeep to them, and they are being built to facilitate small craft (canoes, kayaks, etc..) passage too.

I am all about removing every dam in our state, but it just isn't going to happen. Maybe the ramp setups will be the wave of the future for our smaller dams.


----------



## DE82 (Nov 28, 2007)

The Downstream Drift said:


> This topic comes up from time to time and Sweet Tree stated exactly what you will hear from our fisheries biologists.
> 
> The fisheries division has told me that the dam at Yates works as a great block for invasive species making it up river. They also have mentioned that they do not want the steelhead in Paint Creek completing with the browns in the river for food. (I've heard the arguements both way on this but this is what I've been told.)
> 
> ...


All I'm going to tell you Drift is there are steelies that get into the paint. I've seen them myself, even hooked a few while trout fishing in some spots. Might be some info you want to pass on is all I'm saying. I know you talk to more of the people that "need" to know than I do. If you want you can PM me and I'll even tell you where I've seen them and hooked them in the paint. Of course they could always be just big rainbow trout :lol:


----------



## raisinrat (Feb 9, 2006)

tsr770 said:


> I can only imagine the money it takes to build and maintain ladders on big dams.
> 
> The City of Monroe and the DNR have recieved money from the feds to build fish passages for the low head dams in Monroe and upstream on the Raisin. Those types of dams around the state would probably also qualify for funding like the Raisin has. They are building more or less ramps down the faces of them. It's a initial cost up front, but in the long run there is little upkeep to them, and they are being built to facilitate small craft (canoes, kayaks, etc..) passage too.
> 
> I am all about removing every dam in our state, but it just isn't going to happen. Maybe the ramp setups will be the wave of the future for our smaller dams.



If anyone wants more info on this let me know I am on the committee that is doing the working and planing. I will also be doing an article on this work here really soon going over it in great detail of why they are doing this verses a removal.

Pulling out a dam is not a simple task.

There is a sticky at the top of this section of the forum with some of the info on this project.


----------



## The Downstream Drift (Feb 27, 2010)

DE82 said:


> All I'm going to tell you Drift is there are steelies that get into the paint. I've seen them myself, even hooked a few while trout fishing in some spots. Might be some info you want to pass on is all I'm saying. I know you talk to more of the people that "need" to know than I do. If you want you can PM me and I'll even tell you where I've seen them and hooked them in the paint. Of course they could always be just big rainbow trout :lol:


There are always a bunch of fish that make it up into the creek. Just like you, I have caught them during the first couple weeks of the trout season. For those that haven't seen or caught them the proof is in the hoards of steelhead smolt caught in Rochester every year. The Paint is our only "real" chance of natural reproduction which leads me to believe that this would be a great resource for all of the steelhead that attempt to spawn in the Clinton every year.

Our fisheries biologists also know fish get up into the creek. If they haven't seen adult fish they have seen plenty of smolts during their sampling surveys. For example, last year at the Tienken Rd crossing we shocked a bunch of rainbow smolt in the section we sampled.

I don't want to quote any of them wrong but I'm certain they would be open to talk to any of us about this issue. From every conversation I've had so far it appears they are against allowing "easy" passage up stream of Yates and the main reason I've gotten seems to be the protection of the brown trout fishery in the creek. Some guys believe that this shouldn't be an issue as it doesn't affect our northern rivers like the PM or the Little Manistee. But I tend to stand behind what I'm told by our biologists as they obviously know more about the fish than I do.

Although I'd personnally love to see more fish get over the dam as I believe this would help spread out the angling pressure on the river. But if that happened what on earth would the guys fishing just below the dam do?


----------



## fisheater (Nov 14, 2010)

I for one would not want want to help steelhead upstream of the dam if it would hurt the trout fishery in Paint Creek. I really have not fished Paint Creek much, because I could catch trout in the Clinton, so I left it alone for the flyfisherman. I have seen alot of steel smolts in the Clinton and I am really hoping they don't grow up and start coming to Auburn Hills for that reason also. Just my opinion


----------



## hillbillie (Jan 16, 2011)

I wonder how many walleye would make it to the Paint and munch on trout and how many more steelhead can St Clair support? Would Gobies invade? Just asking really don't know the answers.

Developing an interest in the Clinton can't afford the gas to drive North :sad:


----------



## The Downstream Drift (Feb 27, 2010)

hillbillie said:


> I wonder how many walleye would make it to the Paint and munch on trout and how many more steelhead can St Clair support? Would Gobies invade? Just asking really don't know the answers.
> 
> Developing an interest in the Clinton can't afford the gas to drive North :sad:


The spring walleye run would be another concern for the trout fishery in both Paint Creek and in the Auburn Hills section of the Clinton. I can only imagine how many trout would get gobbled up.

The issue really isn't how many steelhead Lake St Clair can support. The steelhead we get each spring are Lake Erie fish. Lake St Clair is much to warm throughout the summer to hold these fish. After the spawn the Clinton River steelhead naturally head downstream into Lake Erie for the summer. This is part of what makes us getting any fish at all an amazing thing.

The invasive species concern is the main reason I have heard that the Fisheries Division does not want to consider taking the Yates dam out completely. Although with a fish ladder the smaller invasives such as gobies wouldn't be able to make it through (provided what design they consider).


----------



## workingman (Aug 16, 2007)

Heres an idea. Start ticketing all the idiots that litter rivers like the Clinton, Huron, etc... with a hefty $5,000 fine and put it toward river improvements


----------



## bborow2501 (Nov 12, 2007)

DE82 said:


> All I'm going to tell you Drift is there are steelies that get into the paint. I've seen them myself, even hooked a few while trout fishing in some spots. Might be some info you want to pass on is all I'm saying. I know you talk to more of the people that "need" to know than I do. If you want you can PM me and I'll even tell you where I've seen them and hooked them in the paint. Of course they could always be just big rainbow trout :lol:


 x 2


----------



## psycodad (Jul 17, 2004)

It would be cheaper to stock the North Branch than building a fish ladder and it would have the same effect now that the dam is gone @ Romeo Plank. The upper north branch has ground water and there is pretty good access. It would only take 5,000-7,000 yearlings to get a run started.


----------



## Putman Lake Campground (Oct 4, 2010)

workingman said:


> Heres an idea. Start ticketing all the idiots that litter rivers like the Clinton, Huron, etc... with a hefty $5,000 fine and put it toward river improvements



two things will occur: 1. we get a nice bonus now and then. 2. the word will spread like wild fire and folks will stop trashing our public property.


----------

