# Cleaning up the Betsie...



## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

With the impending closure of the 300' below the dam , and the conversation that sparked being closed, Perhaps we can carry on in a more "subject'' related manor...

toto posted:
"I can't attest to as to whether or not they close roads due to speeding however, I will tell you for certainty there were A LOT of CO's around the Betsie this last fall. I know of a least 10 that were in the area for a couple of weeks and the wrote a ton of tickets. As for LB test line, I think we're pushing it there."


Why not? They regulate hook size - right?... With so many CO's around the dam, why is this still an issue? There are a lot of people that as they age can't manage the walk up and down the Betsie's (sometimes muddy) banks, that area is a great access for those less able. Dick Swan and his wife became regulars there as it became more and more difficult for them to navigate the trails... To close this area because of poachers, and the lack of concern about the status of that particular fishery and the environment by LEO's is just plain wrong. Whats next, the area below Tippy down to the handicap access? Hmmmmm... Perhaps we should demand from our legislature and local politicians and LEO's ample surveillance of the area.


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

METTLEFISH said:


> With the impending closure of the 300' below the dam , and the conversation that sparked being closed, Perhaps we can carry on in a more "subject'' related manor...
> 
> toto posted:
> "I can't attest to as to whether or not they close roads due to speeding however, I will tell you for certainty there were A LOT of CO's around the Betsie this last fall. I know of a least 10 that were in the area for a couple of weeks and the wrote a ton of tickets. As for LB test line, I think we're pushing it there."
> ...


What would you recommend? Are you talking leader or mainline? How about braid?

I don't like it, where do you draw the line? Some guys use 50-60lb braid for mainline and 20# leaders for skein fishing. Hardware guys throw some heavy braid and it does save some money on lures I'm sure.

What I'm getting at is if we start these restrictions, where does it end? Are we just going to turn the Betsie into flies only with a maximum of 4# line? (We should all know how much they love the black yarn, lol)

I say let law enforcement sort out the shenanigans at areas like Homestead.

That is just my opinion, I would rather have those clowns there rather than discovering where I like to fish. I don't get up there much anymore, maybe 1-2 days per year, but I haven't seen any snagging on the river in a couple years other than when I stop at the dam. I say keep the circus under the tent.


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## ongo (Oct 1, 2017)

Trout King said:


> I say let law enforcement sort out the shenanigans at areas like Homestead.


I agree, everyone has a job to do. It's a simple process.


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## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

I see what you are getting at with line pound test, however where do you draw the line? The CO's do the best they can to control things, whether it's salmon fishing or deer hunting, or whatever, they can't stop every little thing. After speaking the biologist some time ago about the same issue of closure, I feel more comfortable leaving it open the way it is. The only reason I would ask for closure is in the interest of fair chase. As for the regulation of things, there are thing you can find in every outdoor pursuit that should/could be done and here is one good example even though some may not want to hear it. We all know where I stand on flies only fishing, and the purists use mortality rates as their argument. In looking at those mortality rates it occurred to me that they are talking about passive fishing, in other words, leaving your rod on a forked stick and waiting for the fish to swallow the bait. If you want to stop that we should stop the passive fishing style in favor of a active style where one holds the rod and sets hook when fish bites. The point being, you just can't have every scenario covered, and you just can't continue to tie the CO's hands with so many regulations. Make sense????


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

toto said:


> I see what you are getting at with line pound test, however where do you draw the line? The CO's do the best they can to control things, whether it's salmon fishing or deer hunting, or whatever, they can't stop every little thing. After speaking the biologist some time ago about the same issue of closure, I feel more comfortable leaving it open the way it is. The only reason I would ask for closure is in the interest of fair chase. As for the regulation of things, there are thing you can find in every outdoor pursuit that should/could be done and here is one good example even though some may not want to hear it. We all know where I stand on flies only fishing, and the purists use mortality rates as their argument. In looking at those mortality rates it occurred to me that they are talking about passive fishing, in other words, leaving your rod on a forked stick and waiting for the fish to swallow the bait. If you want to stop that we should stop the passive fishing style in favor of a active style where one holds the rod and sets hook when fish bites. The point being, you just can't have every scenario covered, and you just can't continue to tie the CO's hands with so many regulations. Make sense????


If you'd of read my earlier post(s) , you'd of read that I think it's best to leave these people at the dam. I boycott the P.M. because of flies only. C.O.'s are not the only LEO's tasked with fish & game laws. How is line test different than hook gap/size/flies only/no littering - Etc.? My point is the lack of law enforcement is the issue! So lets punish everyone because LEO's can't, wont, don't do their job. We pay for them to enforce ALL the laws, not as they select or enhance (watching as violations occur to rack up fines and confiscations) My personal tactic is to embarrass people violating, call them out on it! Chances are most around will have your back. If that doesn't work call R.A.P., no C.O. in the area? Call the Sheriff or Township police, they too are tasked with enforcing F&G laws, just as a C.O. can pull you for traffic laws.

I think the potential closure should be a wake up call that the system isn't working, and the State is waving the white flag. Closing that area will surely place these people where "we" do not want them, and lead to other closures of highly accessible areas that people with disabilities can access more easily than other areas
.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Trout King said:


> What would you recommend? Are you talking leader or mainline? How about braid?
> 
> I don't like it, where do you draw the line? Some guys use 50-60lb braid for mainline and 20# leaders for skein fishing. Hardware guys throw some heavy braid and it does save some money on lures I'm sure.
> 
> ...


Black yarn "Mamba" has it's days on the Betsie, however any color to the water and it's Chartreuse/red dot or Oregon Cheese...


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

METTLEFISH said:


> *Black yarn "Mamba"* has it's days on the Betsie, however any color to the water and it's Chartreuse/red dot or Oregon Cheese...


I saw a video on youtube of a guide using black yarn on the Betsie. He was tearing them up!


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## BMARKS (Nov 6, 2017)

METTLEFISH said:


> I boycott the P.M. because of flies only.


PLEASE, encourage your friends. everyone should boycott the P.M. pass it along.


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

BMARKS said:


> PLEASE, encourage your friends. everyone should boycott the P.M. pass it along.


No, everyone needs to protest by fishing spawn and lures in the flies-only. Those trouts are severely under conditioned to those methods!


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## BMARKS (Nov 6, 2017)

na, just boycott, there arent any fish there anyways. not worth your time. i think we should boycott the betsie too because of the proposal. if you see me there, its only to survey the effectiveness of the boycott


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

BMARKS said:


> na, just boycott, there arent any fish there anyways. not worth your time. i think we should boycott the betsie too because of the proposal. if you see me there, its only to survey the effectiveness of the boycott


 Kind of weird that most of the spots I walk into I rarely see a person fishing other than the peak of the salmon run or opening day of trout, other than the guide boats going through. Your boycott is a success.


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## BMARKS (Nov 6, 2017)

Trout King said:


> Kind of weird that most of the spots I walk into I rarely see a person fishing other than the peak of the salmon run or opening day of trout, other than the guide boats going through. Your boycott is a success.


agreed, outside of peak season, i have the river to myself most days in the winter and early or late season. its that way most places tho, if your fine taking a good hike and catching one or two or maybe even three fish in a day, its the best time to fish.


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## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

METTLEFISH said:


> If you'd of read my earlier post(s) , you'd of read that I think it's best to leave these people at the dam. I boycott the P.M. because of flies only. C.O.'s are not the only LEO's tasked with fish & game laws. How is line test different than hook gap/size/flies only/no littering - Etc.? My point is the lack of law enforcement is the issue! So lets punish everyone because LEO's can't, wont, don't do their job. We pay for them to enforce ALL the laws, not as they select or enhance (watching as violations occur to rack up fines and confiscations) My personal tactic is to embarrass people violating, call them out on it! Chances are most around will have your back. If that doesn't work call R.A.P., no C.O. in the area? Call the Sheriff or Township police, they too are tasked with enforcing F&G laws, just as a C.O. can pull you for traffic laws.
> 
> I think the potential closure should be a wake up call that the system isn't working, and the State is waving the white flag. Closing that area will surely place these people where "we" do not want them, and lead to other closures of highly accessible areas that people with disabilities can access more easily than other areas
> .


Just for clarity, when you say "leave these people at the dam" what people are you talking about? Also for clarity, you do realize the Betsie is a public resource right? My problem with line weight issue is, how do you check for line weight? Hook size is pretty easy, a simple ruler will tell you yes or no. Look, I don't like what I see on the Betsie either, for a lot of reasons, but where do you draw the line? One reason it has gotten so bad on the Betsie, at least from what I was told, is that the CO's did a pretty good job on the Big Man, and those actions sent the snaggers etc to the Betsie. This whole issue of closing down more water near the dam makes sense regardless of numbers of fish needed, or however many get over the dam doesn't matter. It just smacks of unethical chase to me.


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## ChromeDome69 (Oct 25, 2018)

We need to open up fishing within 6 inches of the weirs on the platte and lil man as well! ya know, cause of the handicapped people... dam mud! Mettle fish will you sign my petition?


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

toto said:


> Just for clarity, when you say "leave these people at the dam" what people are you talking about? Also for clarity, you do realize the Betsie is a public resource right? My problem with line weight issue is, how do you check for line weight? Hook size is pretty easy, a simple ruler will tell you yes or no. Look, I don't like what I see on the Betsie either, for a lot of reasons, but where do you draw the line? *One reason it has gotten so bad on the Betsie, at least from what I was told, is that the CO's did a pretty good job on the Big Man*, and those actions sent the snaggers etc to the Betsie. This whole issue of closing down more water near the dam makes sense regardless of numbers of fish needed, or however many get over the dam doesn't matter. It just smacks of unethical chase to me.


I would say the reason is because the Betsie still gets a decent run of salmon when compared to what has happened in other rivers.


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## Floater (Feb 8, 2003)

I watched the last thread on this topic and can see both sides of the fence. But, it seems that something gets lost with a lot of people on this site. I have one close family member that was injured in service and another that is confined to a wheelchair. These guys love to fish for salmon and steel and are both ethical fishermen. The great State of Michigan is not just closing a "problem" fishing area but is removing another public access site from the law abiding anglers that need them. The state already has very few accessible sites. THe ones they do have are ok for fishing but absolutely suck for catching. They seem to place them at parts of the river that are either swampy or shallow and fast. None are near good holding water. Homestead provides limited access with fishable numbers for those that cant walk the banks or get in a driftboat. Not to mention that you cant walk much past the proposed 300 foot mark without running into "No Trespassing" signs below homestead. We know the DNR has no problems enforcing trespass violations. Homestead, as mentioned in the other thread also provides older and younger anglers the opportunity at actually catching a salmon. Why doesn't anyone care about these people? 
I don't fish Homestead. I don't need to. But, there's lots of people that cant fish from a boat or walk a mile through the woods to fish other areas for either physical or financial reasons. Taking away sites without providing viable alternate access sites must be PETA's dream. 
I went down one evening last fall to watch what was going on. There was a CO on site and had people lined up waiting for their tickets to be written. He looked miserable. I get it. But that's the job he wanted. Its not like he's being asked to direct traffic at the county fair. He's there enforcing fish and game laws. Sure he'd rather be sitting in his car somewhere relaxing instead of writing tickets non-stop for his entire shift but who wouldn't. The white flag waive approach the State would rather take hurts not only access challenged angler but hurts the rest of us as well. Which sites are next? Tippy? Sixth Street? Croton? When one falls the rest become easier target for shut down. Focus on getting rid of the lawbreakers and make the area suitable for the ethical folks even if its not the easy way out. We know its possible. Used to be we dreamed of being able to fish Tippy during September and October. Now, almost any day in the fall, you can drift a float, bounce bottom or work hardware without having your drift interrupted by a lead spider. It just takes effort and persistence. That's the effort we all pay for and expect when we buy our licences.


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## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

Very well said floater, and honestly I didn't think about the handicap access there.


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## Floater (Feb 8, 2003)

Most people dont think about it unless if affects them. I never gave it a though until my two family members were impacted. I guess I always thought there were enough accessible river sites. There arent. They need not only a place to fish but a close parking area too. Homestead is tough but do-able for one of my relatives. Both have real issues getting into and fishing out of a small river boat. Neither can do a riverside trail. We all know accessible sites but never fish them because the fishing at those locations suck. The accessible site down from tippy has a foot of water as far as you can cast. Almost no one fishes it. As I get older I worry about accessible sites too. I know what goes on at Homestead. Closing it down is not the answer. Maybe legal fishing hours would help. Maybe follow the hunting digest for fishing hours near Homestead to keep people from fishing it in the dark. It would make it easier to police in the daylight and allow fish to pass under the cover of darkness when most pass.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

ChromeDome69 said:


> We need to open up fishing within 6 inches of the weirs on the platte and lil man as well! ya know, cause of the handicapped people... dam mud! Mettle fish will you sign my petition?


Sure! Great idea, especially as the numbers of anglers is falling rapidly! The State needs to do more to hasten the numbers of fisherman. Fishing in easily accessible areas - like parking close to the stores, you know, handicapped parking/fishing similar to what has been done at Tippy! let me know when your done with the specifics of the petition, please!


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

toto said:


> Just for clarity, when you say "leave these people at the dam" what people are you talking about? Also for clarity, you do realize the Betsie is a public resource right? My problem with line weight issue is, how do you check for line weight? Hook size is pretty easy, a simple ruler will tell you yes or no. Look, I don't like what I see on the Betsie either, for a lot of reasons, but where do you draw the line? One reason it has gotten so bad on the Betsie, at least from what I was told, is that the CO's did a pretty good job on the Big Man, and those actions sent the snaggers etc to the Betsie. This whole issue of closing down more water near the dam makes sense regardless of numbers of fish needed, or however many get over the dam doesn't matter. It just smacks of unethical chase to me.


I mean the "people" that are creating the issue at Homestead. Line weight is easily checked with a micrometer. I was kind of kidding with that, however, it in reality would stop a lot of snaggers from being on a river with such regulations. Once "they" start closing things down, it's going to snowball from there. I've seen that the pressure on un ethical manors on the Big Manistee has worked, as I recall, even locals were teaming up and patrolling to aid the LEO's. If that's the case, perhaps the now available time could be spent on the Betsie, it's the same jurisdiction I believe.


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