# i guess its not really hunting or fishing, but...



## love2fish93 (Jul 22, 2007)

Has anyone had a CO give them trouble for their kids riding an atv that they were too young, not necisarily too small, to ride? I got on the polairis today and I realized that it said 16 or older, and I have been riding it since I was about 6. Today, Ten years later, I am legal, butI was just curious.

Thanks,

Pat


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## Cpt.Chaos (May 28, 2006)

Back in the early 90's some local kids from where our family cabin were riding with me one day anda CO happened to be in the St. Helen riding area. He stopped us and did a field check, our machines, tags, spark arrestors, etc. At he end of the check he asked their ages and started to get his ticket book out until I told him I was their brother and I was 24. He put his tickete book away and said, okay, guess you're all legal then. 

So yes, I have seen it and it is the law.


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## malainse (Sep 2, 2002)

Yes, they do issue tickets for under age riders.


http://www.offroad-ed.com/mi/handbook/age_restrictions.htm


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

Does anyone have insight into why it is perfectly legal for a kid of any age to ride a motorcycle under adult supervision, but other ATVs are treated differently?


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## MUDDY4LIFE (Apr 13, 2001)

pescadero said:


> Does anyone have insight into why it is perfectly legal for a kid of any age to ride a motorcycle under adult supervision, but other ATVs are treated differently?


This is a stupid and senseless law that was originated way back in 1991 in Michigan right after we went thru the 1988 Federal CPSC [ consumer product safety commision ] ban on the sales and manufacturing of 3 wheelers in the USA. [ Consent Decree ]

Michigan has ORV laws and they have ATV laws that are VERY old/outdated. 

In order for a vehicle to be classified as an ATV in Michigan, the vehicle in question must be designed for off road use, have 3 or 4 low pressure, ballon type tires, with a seat that is designed to be straddled by the operator, powered by an engine from 50cc on up to 500cc. If the off road vehicle in question does not meet the above definition of an ATV, than it is going to be classified as an ORV under Michigan law.

ORVs do NOT have age restrictions on their use in Michigan. Youth under the age of 16 must be ORV certified and under the direct visual supervision of an adult while operating.

ATVs cannot be operated on Michigans designated trail system until a youth reaches the age of 12 years old, is ORV certified and under visual supervision of an adult while operating.

At best, this law is very old and outdated and needs to be CHANGED. It is redicules to tell anybody that their 7 year old kid can operate a dirtbike [ORV ] on Michigans SANDY designated trail system's, but they cannot operate an appropiately sized 4 wheeler with four wheels planted under their butt which is much more stable for our sandy trail systems.


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## JWICKLUND (Feb 13, 2005)

I have had an on-going problem with underage ORV operators in my county. I would bring them home and warn the parents only to catch the kids again a few days later. After playing this game all last year and having many of them "flee" because they knew I was going to bring them home, I change my approach. I had the local paper print the ORV rules and ages along with the penalty for non-compliance. The problems went way down. 
I do pull into private residences and address underage kids riding unsupevised and/or alone. I have had too many underage fatalities on ORV's to not stop and take the time to warn/educate them. The bottom line is the laws are there to save lives and ORV's are not toys.


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## MUDDY4LIFE (Apr 13, 2001)

JWICKLUND said:


> The bottom line is the laws are there to save lives and ORV's are not toys.


While I completely agree that ATVs/ORVs are not toys, I ''somewhat'' disagree that some of the old/outdated ATV/ORV laws Michigan have, are in place to save lives.

For example,
a youth under the age of 12 cannot legally operate an ATV with an engine size from 50cc on up to 500cc on Michigans designated ORV trails because 4-wheelers in this cc range are classified as ATVs, and ATVs have age restrictions on their use in Michigan. HOWEVER, a youth at ANY age could legally operate a 4-wheeler with an engine size of OVER 500cc as long as they are ORV certified and under the direct visual supervision of an adult while operating, because once the engine size on a 4-wheeler exceeds 500cc, it is not legally an ATV under Michigan law, but it is now classified as an ORV and ORVs do not have age restrictions on their use in Michigan. Therefore, a law like this has nothing to do with trying to save lives, if it did, it would reflect modern day, proper size/fit, instead of just age restrictions on their use.

We got into this mess way back in 1991 when Michigan legislature wrote the definition of an ATV. Back than, the largest size engine on a 4-wheeler was indeed 500cc [Suzuki 500cc Quadzilla ] and the legislators never invisioned that we would someday see 4-wheelers with 1000cc engines.

Im glad Mr Wickland does the job he does in his area regarding ATV/ORV use and our youth. Far too many parents beleive that these vehicles are nothing more than just toys for their kids, but the bottom line is that this type of thinking can/may lead to serious injury.

We ORV Safety Instructors could also take a better lead by making sure the youth that we train in our safety classes, also participate in ''hands on'' training, meaning that the youth will also be taught the safe/responsible way to operate their ATV/ORVs and not just taught ''classroom only'' material.


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

JWICKLUND said:


> I have had an on-going problem with underage ORV operators in my county. I would bring them home and warn the parents only to catch the kids again a few days later. After playing this game all last year and having many of them "flee" because they knew I was going to bring them home, I change my approach. I had the local paper print the ORV rules and ages along with the penalty for non-compliance. The problems went way down.
> I do pull into private residences and address underage kids riding unsupevised and/or alone. I have had too many underage fatalities on ORV's to not stop and take the time to warn/educate them. The bottom line is the laws are there to save lives and ORV's are not toys.


 
Orv's are not babysitters either. I have had the same experience as Jason. We used to write the parents tickets for letting their kids ride off on their own but often that doesn't work either. Most parents would just pay the ticket, you'd catch the kids again. Now we have been writing the kids tickets (usually 14 y.o. and older after repeated violations) and turning them into the Juvenile court. In my county we have an arrangement that they have to do community service, usually in the State Parks. Since they're not allowed to use power equipment, it's usually raking leaves or shovelling sand, overseen by the rangers. Puts the burden of working off the violation on the kid not the parent. It finally came to that after some kids in a golf cart ran down and killed an elderly lady that was sealing her asphalt driveway, operating unsupervised.


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## MUDDY4LIFE (Apr 13, 2001)

Im an ORV Safety Director/Instructor who has trained 100s, if not 1000s, of parents and their youth ORV safety, I will say that there is plenty of folks to share the blame when it comes to ORV safety and awareness..

*ORV safety awareness must first come from the Dealerships who sell these types of products. Of the 20 or so ORV Dealerships that I visit about every 6 months or so, about 2 of them actually leave their customers information on how/where to get ORV safety classes/information from. Simply put, the majority of ORV Dealerships are concerned with one thing called the ''bottom line''..

*Those distributors who sell ORV stickers need to be forced to also give every buyer the ''Handbook of Michigan ORV laws''...I brought this topic up on several occasions over the past 10 years in ORV Board meetings, only to be absorbed by deaf ears. We simply have FAR TOO MANY parents who are unaware that Michigan has ORV laws in place for youth.This is a very correctable problem.

*ALL ORV safety classes need to go back to following the law and not just performing safety classes anyway they see fit.

MCL324.81129 [ 8 ]
THE DEPARTMENT SHALL IMPLEMENT A COMPREHENSIVE ORV INFORMATION, SAFETY EDUCATION, AND TRAINING PROGRAM THAT SHALL INCLUDE THE TRAINING OF OPERATORS AND THE PREPARATION AND DISSEMINATION OF INFORMATION AND SAFETY ADVICE TO THE PUBLIC. THE PROGRAM SHALL PROVIDE FOR THE TRAINING OF YOUTHFUL OPERATORS AND FOR THE ISSUANCE OF ORV SAFETY CERTIFICATES TO THOSE WHO SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETE THE TRAINING PROGRAM AND MAY INCLUDE SEPERATE INSTRUCTION FOR EACH TYPE OF ORV.


When the ORV Safety Program was in the hands of the Department of Education [ Pre- Oct 1st of 2003 ], it was mandated that every ORV Instructor follow the above Michigan Compiled Law, meaning that the instructor not only taught kids bookwork in the classroom, but we also put the kids out on ATVs or Dirtbikes and trained them the safe/proper way to operate the types of products.

The MDNR does not follow the above MCL and when you bring it up to them that they are violating State Statue by NOT teaching our youth how to operate ATVs/ORVs in their safety training classes, they tell you that their interpetation of MCL 324.81129 [ 8 ] does NOT mean teaching the kids HOW to ride. 

How is it that a Law Enforcement Agency can be SO blind


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## love2fish93 (Jul 22, 2007)

I didnt think it was that big of an issue, but I guess it's more severthan i thought. thanks for the input

Pat


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