# New tent requirements????



## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

On another website, I read the following:
_I'm curious how various individual BSA camps in Michigan will deal with Michigan's new requirement for tents. A 06/10/11 memorandum issued by Bureau of Children and Adult Licensing of the Michigan Dept. of Human Services, entitled "Applicable Rules And Clarification Tents, Tee Pees & Other Hybrid Structures," states in Paragraph 9 as follows: 

"Exiting from tents and tee pees with occupant loads of 12 persons or fewer shall at a minimum be through two remote exits that provide a net clear opening that is at least 5 feet high and 36 inches wide, do not present a trip hazard, and which employ quick release means to open such as magnetic strips, easily openable Velcro or other similar method that is pre-approved by the Department. Zippers are not an acceptable means of release for required egress openings." _

I have also heard of more wacky requirements, ie requiring any camping with 5 or more kids to be registered as a child care facility to a new requirement for smoke detectors in tents????? Is any of this true??


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## mooneye (Feb 24, 2008)

Crew tents for the u.s. military wont even pass them rules


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

Yeah. I know there's a few scouters out there. Have any of you seen any of these changes?

We were considering doing the Porkies or PR for a long weekend next year as a shakedown for Philmont. Now...if this stuff is true.....doesn't bode well for doing that


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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

Your search - "Applicable Rules And Clarification Tents, TeePees & Other Hybrid Structures, - did not match any documents. 
 No pages were found containing ""Applicable Rules And Clarification Tents, TeePees & Other Hybrid Structures,".


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

Thanks Big Frank. If interested, I will send you a PM to the link where I saw this, which is a scouter's website.


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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

Please do.


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## wyldkat49766 (Apr 21, 2007)

At Paul Bunyan Scout Reservation Camp I 'think' it was the health dept that was trying to get smoke detectors mandatory in tents.. for REAL?? And just HOW are you going to hang them and who would be the one to provide them? Oh and all the canvas tents owned by PBSR and used by scouters had to be no less than 15 feet apart from them or a structure. Made for some interesting tent arrangements on some sites.

Sometimes trying to be safe can lead to some really stupid rules.


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

It sounds like rules made by people who never had camped before. Well, if it gets erased, well so be it, but here's the link I sent Big Frank. A post mentions that they also tried to look it up on the web to no avail, yet it was sent to them by email.

What's next, supply instructions that youths must plant the right foot before moving the left one?

The sad thing is rules like this end up having a negative impact on participation.



http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=360694


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## bigcountrysg (Oct 9, 2006)

Tents are made the way they are because the design works and works well. It does not take long to unzip and zip up the doors. 

I have used glow sticks zip tied to the zipper handle so it can be easily seen at night for little kids. That works well and allows the kids a bigger handle to open the door of the tent. I have also used the glow sticks to mark the bottom of the doors so the kids don't trip coming in and out of the tent. I just use some good clear packing tape to secure the glowstick to the curb of the door to the tent.


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

bigcountrysg said:


> Tents are made the way they are because the design works and works well. It does not take long to unzip and zip up the doors.
> 
> .


Yeah that, and anyone who has spent one or more nights in a tent knows that. That's why it seems alot of these rules seem to popup as some kind of knee jerk reaction by people that don't know anything about what their rules/regs/guidelines are addressing.

In this instance, perhaps it might have been some kids that got caught in a tent fire (who knows for sure?), or might have been a "what if" situation, so with these inspection rules, now zippers are inadequate. All good, right? Then, because of inadequate bug protection, now you are going to put kids at risk of encephalopathy due to mosquito borne illness. While not common, yes this can occur. Years ago, in another organization I used to belong to, we lost a section chief due to the very same thing. The bottom line is these unfortunate occurances can and do occur, but when you start making onerous unrealistic "safety" rules of which it's unknown as to whether it's going to provide any significant "safety", it definitely takes it's toll on participation. 

Stuff like this makes me hesitant is to recommend to our scout troop's PLC in planning any campouts either to any of the camps (Tampico was on our list as a potential summer camp location for next year), also, some of the high adventure guys have been eyeing up either the porkies, MRT and/or Pictured Rocks as a mini-HA for a long weekend. Until we can separate fact from fiction, these plans will be in a holding pattern.

Thanks, I like the glow stick ideas. As much as we try to drum into them about carrying a headlamp and flashlite, for any one campout, I':lol:d bet it's about 70% who actually have one.....and about 25% who actually take them out of their pack and use them.:lol:


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## FredBearYooper (Oct 5, 2009)

mooneye said:


> Crew tents for the u.s. military wont even pass them rules


That is true..try having a platoon of pissed off grunts on your butt after you tripped trying to get out the door in the middle of the night..haha


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## Freestone (May 15, 2003)

I was at Gerber Boy Scout Camp for a week this summer and Gerber Cub Scout camp for 3 days. They both mentioned having to possibly install smoke alarms in the tents next year. It may be hard to hear the smoke alarm over the kids screaming half the night though. :lol:


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