# Skybusting



## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

Asking this somewhat to stir the pot, but really looking for a good discussion on this mainly concerning the managed areas. I rarely hunt them so it really doesn't matter to me.

I guess I'm curious if this is a new fad or has it always been this way? If it is something new, what is the leading cause of it? What could be done to curtail it if anything? Is the mdnr more interested in quantity of hunts(money) or giving quality hunts or do the same people keep going back generating money for the state whether it is a quality hunt or not? From the sounds of it, it gets worse every year or are people just complaining about it more? 

Just some thoughts 

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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

Lack of skill, inherited traits, and carelessness of others...

It's our society, nothing will change it, all we can do is deter it, we have to educate our youth better...


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

The 25 shell limit in the managed area is supposed to help eliminate that, but.......


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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

Harsens is 18 shells.

It's a phallic thing. Using that instead of gray matter!


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## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

Big Frank 25 said:


> Harsens is 18 shells.
> 
> It's a phallic thing. Using that instead of gray matter!


And imo 18 is still to high, but it doesn't matter if it is not enforced. Granted, I'm sure in the winds the last couple days there were plenty of people who burned through their 18 or 25 and were lucky to kill 1 bird. Had I been there I might have been one of them.  

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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

Huntermax-4 said:


> And imo 18 is still to high, but it doesn't matter if it is not enforced. Granted, I'm sure in the winds the last couple days there were plenty of people who burned through their 18 or 25 and were lucky to kill 1 bird. Had I been there I might have been one of them.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Hear tell $175.00 a round.

What promotes it is the same thing that sells the shells. Look at the ads. No regard for the resource. Buy these rounds bla bla bla.

Shooting and hunting are not one and the same.


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

After market choke tubes.


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## warrenwaterfowler (Aug 31, 2007)

I personally don't care too much. Sure, it sucks, but what are ya going to do? It's public hunting and they aren't breaking any laws doing it. It's the reason I avoid the draws. Sure my chances of a limit may be better at them, but so are my chances of being aggrivated. Plus I don't like having to watch the clock and be out or come back in until I decide. But hey, to each their own
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deadduck365 (Nov 5, 2010)

Enforcement of the shell limit is the problem. When I started hunting harsens and fish point 12 years ago, there were Dnr enforcement officers. I have not seen or been checked in the last 7 years. I used to be a draw junkie. If you ever want to teach somebody why not to sky bust take them out in the layout boat. When they rip through 5 boxes of shells for 3 ducks, they rethink their approach. All that being said. Many consider me a sky buster when at harsens. I get under the flyway and pass shoot. I kill ducks that way because I know how to shoot like that. If the birds decoy then I don't have to. Each person has a perception of how high is too high. I like the goose post put up at fish point this year. Sometimes all you need is to be reminded of the distance. Harsens used to have yard sticks and a duck up in the air. Just remember you can't fix stupid!!!


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## Capt.STU (Jan 1, 2012)

It's been a problem for years now!! There is always some D BAG sky busting in the same zone you are in while everyone is trying to let the birds work but after a while of your birds being flared by a sky busting scumbo you find yourself taking 50 yard shots cuz your afraid any second the scummy is going to bust at a bird!! I'm sure everyone else that has hunter educate can feel me knockin'


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## BAY CREEPER (Jan 11, 2009)

William H Bonney said:


> After market choke tubes.


the ol pattern master could wipe the smile off a ducks face at a half mile

Quoted from a friend and experienced SGA hunter... "shoot high, shoot often":lol::lol:


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## hunting man (Mar 2, 2005)

If they die its not sky busting. You can't kill em unless you are shooting.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

hunting man said:


> If they die its not sky busting. You can't kill em unless you are shooting.


From what you know, that bird could be wounded, find water..then die...the above terminology would be that of an uneducated hunter...


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## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

hunting man said:


> If they die its not sky busting. You can't kill em unless you are shooting.


Okay, I'll bite. I'm hoping that comment was dripping with sarcasm. I guess everyone's opinion is different, but yes it is still imo. When you get to the longer range shooting, for every one you bring down, you are either going to cripple or lose another one. Lots of birds shot at at long distances are hit in the gut and go on to die. 

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## Jimw (Jul 8, 2009)

hunting man said:


> If they die its not sky busting. You can't kill em unless you are shooting.


Isn't duck hunting about shooting decoying ducks? Not taking random pokes at passers by? Some folks still take pride in how close they can kill them..

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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

I take pass shots left to right or vice versa. Im not over the head guy much unless comfortably low. I prefer feet down cupped and blow them backwards when there hit. 

As far as managed areas I've never hunted any. I would like to try and am working on a waste water hunt in musk. I shoot hundreds of birds every season and get turned off reading all the negativity about managed areas when I can hunt my normal areas and do fine. Granted I'm not shooting many pudlers like some off you , but no headaches either. I just consider my early and very late season pudlers and all in between for divers. Hope managed areas get a better name for themselves. Hard to convince me to shoot a couple mallards for bingo or not even get picked when 100 parties show up. I know manage areas can probly be great and nice for people with little gear, but its depressing reading all this garbage about them.


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

Some consider it skybusting while other just consider it optimism. The cure is experience!


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

Jimw said:


> Isn't duck hunting about shooting decoying ducks? Not taking random pokes at passers by? Some folks still take pride in how close they can kill them..
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire



BOOM! What's the point if you don't, isn't this winning the battle?


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## Water_Hazard (Aug 16, 2006)

I hunted fish point last Sunday. By far the worst place for inexperienced hunters and skybusters. They do not know how to decoy birds let alone let a bird work. We shot more birds than the whole field combined, and we shot alot less times than the whole field combined. All ours were in the decoys. I think alot of it is just inexperience. They were taking shots that bbs couldn't travel to. The funny thing is the birds they shot at high would have worked right into them.


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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

Sky busting is like herpes.....it just won't go away.


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## charcoal300zxtt (Sep 8, 2011)

I think some of the people just don't know any better, opening day this year some morons across the pond were taking some ridiculous shots, I kept quiet until they took a 300yarder across the pond at 30+ geese cupped and committed into our deeks, after I got done screaming they packed up and left. Later I was thinking that maybe they just don't know any better. Oh well still pissed me off and I felt better, after they left we and another group hunting behind us were able to call in and work birds and still turned out to be a great day! To any skybusters out there that just hunt that way, yeah its legal and your still a bunch if jackasses! 


_Posted from Michigan-sportsman.com App for Android_


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## ohhiitznik (Jul 15, 2010)

Is it sky busting if I'm using Hevi 2's with my pattern master and making geese rain at 70 yards with 1 shot? Or is it skybusting if I unload on a group of woodies at 30 yards and not hit a single bird? Everyone has their own definition. Sometimes people think a group is skybusting but they are shooting at a group of on the deck teal. To each their own. I don't worry about others, I worry about the shots I can make. If I feel confident pulling up at 50 yards on a passing duck with HEvi 2's and I make that shot 60-70% of the time with 1 trigger pull, I take that shot. Some of you may call that skybusting. I also like to watch red legs dropping into the decoys. This is like the hunter ethics question that gets beat half to death. If its in your ability to shoot and your load/choke/gun combo supports the shots you take, then by all means let her fly.


I even thought about buying a 10 gauge to load hevi 2's in for some long range wing stomping. Maybe I should and let her boom boom boom out at a managed area!


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## alipinski397 (Sep 17, 2008)

Here's my take- things aren't always what they seem in the managed areas. I totally agree it happens too much but don't be quick to judge unless your 100% sure. I got accused of sky busting a few weeks back at a managed area by a group in the the next row behind me. They saw a pair over top of my zone when I took a shot, of course those birds flared. What they didn't see was the one going mach 2 through my spread (that caught me off guard a little) right on the deck. Only had time for the one shot and happened to miss. 

They automatically associated that one shot and flairing birds, the ones I was intending on shooting, and considered me a skybuster. 



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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

there is no answer to skybuster. give them a 5 shell limit and he will just space out his skybusting 1 shell at a time 1hr apart.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Water_Hazard said:


> I hunted fish point last Sunday. By far the worst place for inexperienced hunters and skybusters. They do not know how to decoy birds let alone let a bird work. We shot more birds than the whole field combined, and we shot alot less times than the whole field combined. All ours were in the decoys. I think alot of it is just inexperience. They were taking shots that bbs couldn't travel to. The funny thing is the birds they shot at high would have worked right into them.


^^this.

i get more frustrated at fields that won't let the birds even make it to them. won't let them work in. won't let them circle them EVEN when they are the final destination for the birds.

some people are so excited to have a duck even get within 50yrds of them, until they hunt with someone who forces them to wait for that bird to finish, they have no clue what its all about. This is waht waterhazard is saying..."inexperienced" and i agree with him.

nothing more frustrating than watching the hot field shoot at +45 yrds when the bird is still locked on them and still closing the distance. just wait. if the bird passes you up and goes and finishes in the next field, it wasn't meant to be. If it continues this way all day, your doing something wrong or your in the wrong spot, skybusting won't make it better.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

and -1 to boone for bringing this beat to death subject up again.


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## ohhiitznik (Jul 15, 2010)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> ^^this.
> 
> i get more frustrated at fields that won't let the birds even make it to them. won't let them work in. won't let them circle them EVEN when they are the final destination for the birds.
> 
> ...



This is funny because most of the time I'm in a managed area, I'll be letting birds circle to let them finish because gimmies are better than passing shots, and then they float off to the next zone, cupped and committed and they shoot at them 45/50+ yards up/out while they are clearly gliding right in! Funny to watch but oh well!


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## boomstick (Aug 31, 2010)

All it take is one guy/women to take charge of the group. I've done the draw 3 times in 30 years. My last 20 on a lease. Rules and guide lines need, must b set. One person calls the shot! I for 1 like to watch birds work the decoys. I give them 2 chances to decoy. Pass shooting only if there in range. I don't like educating birds and depending on fresh birds to decoy. So grow some and let them work the decoys! Only bad point is, if there in ur face u get this!



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## John Singer (Aug 20, 2004)

I say that some marketing is also to blame. 

Do this as an experiment: Go to a gun shop and tell the guy behind the counter that you want to take up waterfowl hunting. Tell me what kind of gun he tries to sell you. Tell him that you want to do some goose hunting too and see what happens.

How many people post on this site each year questions like:

Should I try Black Cloud, Hypersonic, or depleted uranium ammo?

What aftermarket choke do I need for my 3 1/2" magnum Super %#@( shotgun?

What shells should I use with my Pattern Masturbator Choke?

We live in a society that sells the idea that we can buy skill. 

Many of these guys simply do not know better. Some think that they deserve to shoot their guns since they have paid the price of admission. 

If they could hunt with somebody that would show them what it is like to shoot ducks committed and in range, they would change their habits.

I have seen it happen before.

BTW: Most of the guys that post photos of big bags of birds on this site did not get those birds by shooting at 70 yards or more.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

boomstick said:


> Only bad point is, if there in ur face u get this!
> 
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Or this









Or this










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## someone11 (Mar 15, 2009)




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## ojynnad20 (Oct 21, 2011)

hunting man said:


> If they die its not sky busting. You can't kill em unless you are shooting.


Had many days ruined by douche bags with that mentality... Sorry but this really is the most selfish and unsportsmanlike approach to "hunting" that exists.


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## ojynnad20 (Oct 21, 2011)

Water_Hazard said:


> I hunted fish point last Sunday. By far the worst place for inexperienced hunters and skybusters. They do not know how to decoy birds let alone let a bird work. We shot more birds than the whole field combined, and we shot alot less times than the whole field combined. All ours were in the decoys. I think alot of it is just inexperience. They were taking shots that bbs couldn't travel to. The funny thing is the birds they shot at high would have worked right into them.


I was very upset sunday at fish point hunted 14 and left at 830... Couldnt handle the shooting that was taking place. I am pretty certain the group behind us shot at a group of geese so high they didnt even flare!!! had a discussion at the tower with a guy about the shooting. Then went to the bay and got some decoy shots finally.


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## deadduck365 (Nov 5, 2010)

Jimw said:


> Isn't duck hunting about shooting decoying ducks? Not taking random pokes at passers by? Some folks still take pride in how close they can kill them..
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


I thought is was about going out and having a good time with friends and enjoying life. 
Each person has their own thought of fun. Some people have fun ruining another's day. 
Go out have fun!


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## Coldwater Charters (Sep 17, 2000)

hunting man said:


> If they die its not sky busting. You can't kill em unless you are shooting.


Is this a hit and run josh:corkysm55


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## hunting man (Mar 2, 2005)

Coldwater Charters said:


> Is this a hit and run josh:corkysm55


Mike, I would say it's more like trolling. :yikes:

For the record I don't shoot high. I do hunt often and I would say as much or more than most on here. I shoot birds with their feet down. I have plenty of education thank you. I might even be able to teach some of you a thing or 3 about decoying birds. I have over 40 years under my belt.


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## spartansfan (Nov 8, 2011)

Cant we just come to the conclusion already like every other time that we have this thread that if you dont like sky busters. Hunt someplace where you know they wont be. Otherwise learn to live with them, because yelling at them sure as heck wont change their ways


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

hunting man said:


> Mike, I would say it's more like trolling. :yikes:
> 
> For the record I don't shoot high. I do hunt often and I would say as much or more than most on here. I shoot birds with their feet down. I have plenty of education thank you. I might even be able to teach some of you a thing or 3 about decoying birds. I have over 40 years under my belt.


kinda funny, i know a guy thats been hunting the managed areas for 40+ years and he still takes the upwind field in a 25mph blow.







hows that for a troll.


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## spartansfan (Nov 8, 2011)

TSS Caddis said:


> Or this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
or this


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## hunting man (Mar 2, 2005)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> kinda funny, i know a guy thats been hunting the managed areas for 40+ years and he still takes the upwind field in a 25mph blow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your doing just fine. By the way whats our limit?

Sorry Mike I just had to post what I did earlier. Sometimes I just can't help myself.


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## mintgreenwalleyemachine (Jan 18, 2005)

spartansfan said:


> or this


Or this!



"StinkFinger"


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## anon2192012 (Jul 27, 2008)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> and -1 to boone for bringing this beat to death subject up again.


 
I guess what I was curious about is whether or not this is a new thing or always been this way and what would have caused this if it was something new.


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## ohhiitznik (Jul 15, 2010)

You guys blasting birds in half need to aim for the FACE! muahahha


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## duckingaround (Aug 3, 2010)

As stupid as it sounds, I think people that skybust cause more people to skybust. I see it all the time. One group is shooting high, flaring every bird around, so as the morning goes on, more groups start shooting high because they get bored/frustrated/mad. I had to skybust last weekend to drop a wounded hun that the group in front of us skybusted. The difference is they shot 8 times. I shot once and it folded up.

Personally I am not the best shot close up. I shoot way better at 30-40 yards but not up. I rarely shoot if they are more than 15 or so high. But miss or not, if I can get them in the decoys, it is WAY more fun and half of the challenge of it.


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## spartansfan (Nov 8, 2011)

duckingaround said:


> As stupid as it sounds, I think people that skybust cause more people to skybust. I see it all the time. One group is shooting high, flaring every bird around, so as the morning goes on, more groups start shooting high because they get bored/frustrated/mad.


This. I've seen it time and time again at fp. its starts with one group sky busting and then shouting commences and then by the end of the afternoon half the field is shooting at everything.


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

Watched one group last weekend shooting at birds that never even flared... Another group screamed at 'em every time they did it... :lol:
The hollering went back and forth until the skybusters actually had the balls to hop in the boat and confront the guys that were screaming at 'em...
I don't know what happened after that...


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## duckingaround (Aug 3, 2010)

spartansfan said:


> This. I've seen it time and time again at fp. its starts with one group sky busting and then shouting commences and then by the end of the afternoon half the field is shooting at everything.


I joked with my buddy the other day that my shooting distance extends by 10 yards for every hour of hunting we do, lol. ( I was joking)


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## headjammer (Jun 25, 2011)

i had a guy tell me " well its a great night when u shoot a half box of shells and dont have to clean anything" this just after i over heard him bitching to his buddy about how exspensive the shells were, ya i wanted to do some "headjamming" on that idiot


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## TNL (Jan 6, 2005)

I don't like true skybusters and I define skybusting as shooting birds out of range where you will, at best, wound a bird. However, there is a form of duck hunting called pass shooting. 

Pass shooting was the preferred form of duck hunting from the turn of the last century until the advent of duck conservation. Large gauge guns brought down multiple birds with one shot. Pass shooting is still a form of duck hunting to any waterfowling purist. IMO, pass shooting is doing your homework and getting in a flyway and shooting ducks/geese at killable ranges without the use of calls or decoys. It relies on the shooters prowess with a firearm - not a bad thing. Pass shooting took a hit with the new Fed non- toxic shot regs that came out in the 70s. Steel was expensive and didn't have the energy to kill at the ranges lead did. Many hunters left the sport because of steel and when these old hunters left, they took the accepted pass shooting tradition with them. Now we have the post-lead generation that likes to "shoot 'em in the face" spending a fortune on gear to do so. To each his own; sort of like water swatting.

FWIW, I watched 4 hunters take 8 birds with 10 shots at geese that were flying out the refuge over 5-C at the Todd Farm. I thought these shots were at 60-75 yards from my perspective. I talked to them as they were doing their load out commenting on their shooting. They explained that thet knew those birds were going out to feed and would never decoy, so they took 35-45 yard shots with 3.5" Heavy Shot. Needless to say, I was impressed with their shooting and it was clear they were very experienced at it. 

I guess to bring it to full circle, some guys can have consistent clean kills at ranges we may be personally uncomfortable with. It might impact birds that could possibly decoy to us or others and there will be misses just like over decoys. We shouldn't judge them any more than someone who preferrs to water swat. And of course, 
there are some who simply blast because they're bored or have limited experience. Shooting at non-killable ranges only educates already wary birds.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

TNL said:


> I don't like true skybusters and I define skybusting as shooting birds out of range where you will, at best, wound a bird. However, there is a form of duck hunting called pass shooting.
> 
> Pass shooting was the preferred form of duck hunting from the turn of the last century until the advent of duck conservation. Large gauge guns brought down multiple birds with one shot. Pass shooting is still a form of duck hunting to any waterfowling purist. IMO, pass shooting is doing your homework and getting in a flyway and shooting ducks/geese at killable ranges without the use of calls or decoys. It relies on the shooters prowess with a firearm - not a bad thing. Pass shooting took a hit with the new Fed non- toxic shot regs that came out in the 70s. Steel was expensive and didn't have the energy to kill at the ranges lead did. Many hunters left the sport because of steel and when these old hunters left, they took the accepted pass shooting tradition with them. Now we have the post-lead generation that likes to "shoot 'em in the face" spending a fortune on gear to do so. To each his own; sort of like water swatting.
> 
> ...


damn TNL thats like the most detailed educational post ever put up on here. lol. also very true....which is another rare occurance on here.


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## mbatson (Oct 10, 2010)

Skybusting= talented shooters 


Team Browning


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## spartansfan (Nov 8, 2011)

Great post TNL


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## walleyeman2006 (Sep 12, 2006)

I shoot single birds 50+ yards with steel #2 or #3....i get greif but I dont empty my gun...one shot ...flock shooting at birds like that is just a bad idea....i think its ammo and choke companies.......unless im strictly goose hunting ive got my ic or cylinder choke in......there a few on here who have seen me make shots they wouldnt try....and then miss gimmes lol


_Posted from Michigan-sportsman.com App for Android_


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## LoBrass (Oct 16, 2007)

I took a novice out yesterday and we had this conversation.

Multiple times he asked "wasn't that bird in range?". My answer was, "a guy could have possibly killed that duck, yes." "However, I like to finish birds." 

The need for some people to achieve success is what drives the longer shots. MANY duck hunters have never been able to really finish birds with consistency, therefore, when a bird comes within range of where they may have killed one in the past, they blaze away. 

When the pair of drakes slid over the decoys cupped and committed at 40 yards, then they slid out and I called them back right over the dekes and we shot at about 20 yards I turned to him and said "THAT is what duck hunting is all about!"

Unfortunately, some folks do not have the ability to TRULY work ducks with a call. Success for some is very hard fought and as someone said, you can't kill them if you don't shoot.

My answer has always been to try and hunt areas of very low pressure whenever possible.


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## nastynate2728 (Mar 30, 2010)

http://www.realtree.com/hunting/rea...og/balog-on-public-draw-hunts-and-sky-busting

You can have your pass shooting, anyone can do their homework and get in the path of ducks. We all know that is not what we love about duck hunting and any person who truly loves this sport knows what I mean. Put your hard work in to get those ducks to lock up....TAKE EM!


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## Jigin-N-Grinin (Jan 22, 2008)

Im all about the skybusting in the Fish Point Area....Shoot at em all, scare em out of there. 
Afterall, I am in a layout blind somewhere outside of the reserve waiting for them to rain in on us.


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## Po'Boy (Oct 15, 2010)

hunting man said:


> If they die its not sky busting. You can't kill em unless you are shooting.


That's not totally true....Several times this year I've seen guys shoot at a flock of 6 birds that were in my opinion looking to work. They will have killed 1 but it they'd have waited 10 seconds they could have killed most or all of them.


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## Bigeejakes (Nov 11, 2011)

walleyeman2006 said:


> I shoot single birds 50+ yards with steel #2 or #3....i get greif but I dont empty my gun...one shot ...flock shooting at birds like that is just a bad idea....i think its ammo and choke companies.......unless im strictly goose hunting ive got my ic or cylinder choke in......there a few on here who have seen me make shots they wouldnt try....and then miss gimmes lol
> 
> 
> _Posted from Michigan-sportsman.com App for Android_


Doing this depends on the situation you are hunting in. 

After writing this I realized you did say that flock shooting at birds like this is just a bad idea - so disregard the fact that i'm talking mainly to people who do this with flocks inbound. 

If you are at a bingo, downwind of a group that is waiting on decoying birds. The birds swing over at 55yrds and you take one shot... flaring them and ruining the hunt for everyone else in the field... for 1 shot (hit or miss I don't care) - is just plain selfish.

I hunt the bingos a lot. I take a lot of enjoyment seeing other groups take clean, decoying shots. I like to see birds working the fields - even if it's not my field.

However, if you are on your own property, no other groups around and the birds are "passing" over - go at it! Or if you are in a zone where you aren't messing up another group's hunt.


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## jdcherry (May 31, 2012)

I duck hunted for the first time with some mentors at Shiawassee a few Mondays back. AM hunt. I do distinctly remember that when announcing the rules of the draw he asked folks not to skybust. I took my wife to Fish Point on Sunday, also AM hunt and that was not addressed in the rules announcement. Only one duck came into my spread at Fish Point but that is more likely due to the fact that I am new, figuring things out, plus I had a few lonely floating decoys and everyone around me had the moving wing ones. Suffice to say, not alot of ammo used in my zone.


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