# Are game wardens in MI like this?



## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

I guess Ive never actually run into a game warden in MI. Plus logic would say there are very very many people out there legit breaking laws so why would they want to trump up charges against people? But apparently in PA they do.

In article warden cites hunter for bowhunting 70 yards from bait that someone else left, he reported, and he voluntarily cleaned up!

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/...ion-for-hunting-over-bait.html?outputType=amp


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

I know a guy that gave another angler a legal hook on a river here in MI a few years ago. DNR was watching thru binoculars. The angler that bummed the hook foul hooked a salmon and kept it. He got a ticket for snagging. The guy that gave him the hook... he got arrested for "aiding and abetting". True story. LOL


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

shaffe48b said:


> I guess Ive never actually run into a game warden in MI. Plus logic would say there are very very many people out there legit breaking laws so why would they want to trump up charges against people? But apparently in PA they do.
> 
> In article warden cites hunter for bowhunting 70 yards from bait that someone else left, he reported, and he voluntarily cleaned up!
> 
> https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/...ion-for-hunting-over-bait.html?outputType=amp


Everyone in the original case, the game warden, prosecutors, and judge, need to lose their jobs.


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## usedtobeayooper (Feb 13, 2008)

Reminds me of why I don't peir fish anymore. Lines of snaggers elbow to elbow gashing fish. Half the ones I caught legally had previous wounds in them..... which I'm not willing to argue were pre-existing when I caught mine legally.... threw most back to avoid any question. 

Perception is 90% of the battle. 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

Wonder if it's laziness. Every place has lazy apples. Instead of doing the work of finding the real bad guys, let me fine the guy who gave him the hook too. Fill my quota.

I assume that if you fought any of these theyd get laughed out of court but they know most wont hire a lawyer.

Too bad you cant sue for frivolous charges at least for your attorney fees.


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

There was a game warden that got assigned to the area I hunt acouple years ago. You could say he was somewhat overzealous about his job like he had a point to prove even though he is a shot. It got so bad the one year we were wondering about the possibility of calling on him for hunter harassment. The game warden that took over last year even admitted the Sgt was a a$$hole.


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## TriggerDiscipline (Sep 25, 2017)

Yep, we have many like that. Citing people over technicalities, or for violations of the strict rule of law, not its intent. Law enforcement tends to attract a certain personality type.


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## No-Bama (Jan 1, 2013)

Quack Addict said:


> I know a guy that gave another angler a legal hook on a river here in MI a few years ago. DNR was watching thru binoculars. The angler that bummed the hook foul hooked a salmon and kept it. He got a ticket for snagging. The guy that gave him the hook... he got arrested for "aiding and abetting". True story. LOL


I call BS. There's either way more to this story, or the guy you know is blowing smoke up your ass. 

More to the story like......it was his buddy that he gave the hook to, they rode together. he helped him load the fish on the stringer, and oh yeah, that hook? It was a custom job, with an ounce of lead molded onto the shank of a giant treble.


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## Lumberman (Sep 27, 2010)

They are taught to write every ticket possible so people don’t think they can get away with things. 

Secretly the guy teaching that bologna just has “SHOW ME THE MONEY” running through his head.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

No-Bama said:


> I call BS. There's either way more to this story, or the guy you know is blowing smoke up your ass.
> 
> More to the story like......it was his buddy that he gave the hook to, they rode together. he helped him load the fish on the stringer, and oh yeah, that hook? It was a custom job, with an ounce of lead molded onto the shank of a giant treble.


I agree. Even then you wouldn't be arrested.


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

There are sheriff Andy Taylor and deputy Barney Fifes in all law enforcement .


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

No-Bama said:


> I call BS. There's either way more to this story, or the guy you know is blowing smoke up your ass.
> 
> More to the story like......it was his buddy that he gave the hook to, they rode together. he helped him load the fish on the stringer, and oh yeah, that hook? It was a custom job, with an ounce of lead molded onto the shank of a giant treble.


Figured as much; go ahead and call BS.


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## waxico (Jan 21, 2008)

I know a few CO's. Overall, my experiences with them have been totally professional. I was snowmobiling with one on Sunday. She stopped three different groups, gave them all warnings, no tickets.
There are bad apples in all organizations. My experiences with CO's have been positive.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

"There was a game warden that got assigned to the area I hunt a couple years ago. You could say he was somewhat overzealous about his job like he had a point to prove even though he is a shot. It got so bad the one year we were wondering about the possibility of calling on him for hunter harassment. The game warden that took over last year even admitted the Sgt was a a$$hole."


Glad you have him now and not us, if it's the same guy, which is sounds like. M_ _ _r. That's his name, not me calling him mother.....

Told me once he'd just write me a ticket that was BS, and he knew it, and I could sort it out in court. Told him he had no evidence since it didn't happen, and even though I was working contract and would lose a pile of money, I'd gladly make him look stupid in court, if he wanted to show up. He decided to be gracious and not write a ticket. Shooting a crippled duck while under power was the issue at hand, and I stopped the boat and loaded and then unloaded and started the boat a couple times before I got close enough to legally shoot it. Had I wanted to shoot it while under power I had many chances.

Threw me out of a parking lot while I was watching the last 1/2 hour of duck flights scouting at Fennville telling me I was going to get a ticket for camping. No provisions and two small kids in the Jeep, but I guess I was hunkering down for the night. News to me. 

It got to the point that if I had two choices of where to hunt / fish and I was solo, I'd go where he wasn't, as I didn't want to encounter him without a witness.

He was a sheriff before being a CO and I have pity for the people he pulled over. I hunt with some of his former contemporaries and no one has had a positive thing to say.


I've been checked probably at least a dozen times and besides him every other experience has been positive if not humorous with the CO being professional. Guy on opening day of duck this year just wanted to leave and go check more people when I was pimping him for intel on where to hunt ducks, as we were new to the area. Fine, go do your job...


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

Thirty pointer said:


> There are sheriff Andy Taylor and deputy Barney Fifes in all law enforcement .


Yes indeed. Half of the people were in the bottom of their class and that translates to every job out there too. Half the people in any given profession are likely not that good at what they do. This has certainly been the case in every profession I've seen in detail. The same likely goes for COs too. In the first years where we used to live I crossed paths with the local CO many times. On three occasions I handed her slam dunk cases for poaching deer or trespassing and in all instances she blew them with her incompetence and laziness. After a while, I didn't even bother reporting anything around there since she was as useless as balls on a heifer. I had to take the law into my own hands with trespassers putting me in danger because of her ineptness. Eventually though the DNR promoted her and we got a good CO and live was a lot better.


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

shaffe48b said:


> I guess Ive never actually run into a game warden in MI. Plus logic would say there are very very many people out there legit breaking laws so why would they want to trump up charges against people? But apparently in PA they do.
> 
> In article warden cites hunter for bowhunting 70 yards from bait that someone else left, he reported, and he voluntarily cleaned up!
> 
> https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/...ion-for-hunting-over-bait.html?outputType=amp





Petronius said:


> Everyone in the original case, the game warden, prosecutors, and judge, need to lose their jobs.


I bet he'll think twice before he _snitches_ next time.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Nostromo said:


> I bet he'll think twice before he _snitches_ next time.


Good deeds never go unpunished


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

And with the baiting ban in Michigan, there is no regulations about how far you must be from a illegally baited area or no requirement of proof that you put bait out in the first place. Someone could put bait near your stand unbeknownst to you and you could be hunting there thinking you are legal when along comes a CO with a ticket book in his hand. I wonder how much it cost that PA hunter in legal fees to clear his name?


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

Trophy Specialist said:


> And with the baiting ban in Michigan, there is no regulations about how far you must be from a illegally baited area or no requirement of proof that you put bait out in the first place. Someone could put bait near your stand unbeknownst to you and you could be hunting there thinking you are legal when along comes a CO with a ticket book in his hand. I wonder how much it cost that PA hunter in legal fees to clear his name?


How much did it cost ? They don't care once you are in court .I found this out the hard way after getting a failure to yield with an injury in a blind intersection .$2600 in fines and fees, loss of license for a year, community service ,ordered to take inhanced drivers classes .All mandatory .First ticket i ever got and it was not my fault .Lucky for me i got a good lawyer pro bono or i would have spent thousands more .This is the reason so many people who don't have much money have to stay in jail


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

I've been hunting and fishing for probably 65 years and the only time I had problem with a CO was when I was a kid and we used to torment our local warden. Since I grew up they have all been great to work with and have even let me off when I should have been ticketed.


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> "There was a game warden that got assigned to the area I hunt a couple years ago. You could say he was somewhat overzealous about his job like he had a point to prove even though he is a shot. It got so bad the one year we were wondering about the possibility of calling on him for hunter harassment. The game warden that took over last year even admitted the Sgt was a a$$hole."
> 
> 
> Glad you have him now and not us, if it's the same guy, which is sounds like. M_ _ _r. That's his name, not me calling him mother.....
> ...


Met that guy a couple times, if I were ever to give up hunting, he would be the reason. The shining example of his professionalism happened some years back. While deer hunting one day my dad decided he didn't want to stay out all day, so he drove himself. We got in the woods and parked, hunting off of a small 2 track. While getting ready, my dad discovered he had forgotten his licence, left them laying on kitchen table. He decided to not hunt that morning, as by the time he went back and got his licence, coming back he would be driving through our hunting area at daylight. He didn't wanna mess up anybodies morning. He opted for climbing back in his van and taking a nap. I decided to hunt within eyesight of the van that morning, my dad was 78 at the time, and not in the best of health.

Fast forward about 1 1/2 hrs. I was hunting close enough to the road so as I was able to see traffic. A C.O comes driving down the road. I stepped out and waved at at them. They pulled in where we were parked. I radioed my son and told him what was happening, to just stay put, but dont be surprised if he got a visit. I then walked over to our vehicles. Two officers were present by this time. Things started out cordially, a little small talk. They then ask me if I was alone. replied no, my son is hunting nearby, and told them exactly where he was. The officer then went over to where he was leaving me and Mr. M_____ alone . After doing his checks, he went over to where I was sitting, and checked things out. By the time we returned to our vehicles, my son and the second officer were there. 

Mr M. then asked me who owned the van parked beside of me. I again told him it was my dads, and he was in the back of it asleep. I then went over and woke my dad up and told him that there were C.Os there. after a minute or two my dad comes stumbling out of the side door of his van, dressed in long johns, a pair of untied boots, and a jacket. Mr M. then starts talking to my dad, in the process asking him for his license, and if there were any weapons in the van. My dad told him he didnt have a license on, and explained why. he then went over and opened the back door of the van, dug around under the seats and pulled a deer rifle, in a zipped case. Tge officer then took the rifle out of its case, made sure that it was unloaded, then took my dads drivers license, and rifle to his truck. At this point everything seemed to be okay, I just figured he was going to check my dads drivers license, maybe check the serial numbers on the gun, then it would be over. 

However when he came back is when things went sideways, he had racked open the rifle, a Marlin lever action. He then proceeded to tell my dad where, the date, and the time that he had got his license, all correct, however after smelling the breach he determined that the rifle had been recently fired, again somewhat correct, it had been shot the previous evening. He then told my dad that he was in possession of a weapon capable of taking deer, in an area known to be inhabited by deer, during the rifle deer season. So therefor he was deer hunting, and needed to be in possession of a deer license. Wrote him a ticket for hunting without a deer license in his possession. 

Now before you say he should have fought it, he almost did, he took all the steps necessary to contest it, he made the mistake of thinking it would take 5 or 6 months to get a court date. WRONG, they scheduled his court date for February. He did call and try to get it rescheduled, that wasn't gonna happen. So he was left with two options, Miss California and go to court, or pay the ticket. He opted for the latter, only because the trip was important to my mom. For a 175 dollars, he wasn't going to cancel their trip.

For this reason, and this reason only, I have absolutely no respect for C.O.s in Michigan. For the rest of our lives, my son and I, they will never be more than over paid fish cops. The least I have to do with them the better.

Sorry for the longevity of the post.


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

Quack Addict said:


> I know a guy that gave another angler a legal hook on a river here in MI a few years ago. DNR was watching thru binoculars. The angler that bummed the hook foul hooked a salmon and kept it. He got a ticket for snagging. The guy that gave him the hook... he got arrested for "aiding and abetting". True story. LOL


I'm sure he got off, because aiding and abetting requires specific intent. Still a huge pain in the butt to deal with, and likely costly. Cops have a tough job, and I respect them a ton, most are great guys out there doing their job, but the bad ones / dumb ones really make it tougher for the good guys.

I think a lot of the good COs know there is a bad taste in a lot of folks' mouths from the bad ones, because I notice when dealing with them that they seem to sometimes go out of their way to be cordial and fair. Thankfully, I have yet to have a bad experience with a CO. I've had plenty of bad experiences with cops (more good ones though), but never with a CO.


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## BVG (Nov 18, 2004)

I am guessing i have spoken with a Michigan Game Warden 6-8 times over the years. Every interaction I have had was positive.


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

There are always people on a power trip no matter what kind of work they do


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

*Are game wardens in MI like this? NO*

Are all sportsman like this? NO


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Officer M***R was on MOOD TV on an elk hunt with his daughter a couple years ago.

She took a shot, then he took the rifle from her. He was not wearing any hunter orange at the time, and the rifle was still loaded.

Interesting, huh? At that point in time he had a loaded rifle, with no orange, in an area full of elk. Not sure what license he was holding that allowed him to be hunting without orange at that time. Maybe Canada Creek or whatever that lodge is gave him permission to hunt coyotes.

I just found it ironic that he was on TV doing the same gray area chicken #@#$ stuff we all do, but he was so fond of writing tickets for.


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## ltcnav (Oct 10, 2010)

Have had both good and questionable experiences. IMHO, Michigan does not have "Game Wardens", we have DNR Law Enforcement officers. More concerned with the letter of the law than any game conservation issues. For instance, (and this is for the DNR/NRC, not individual officers) if the priorities were right,every COs truck would have a plow and part of their duties would be to make sure every public access site in their territory was plowed clear. This would be a service to ice fishermen, would greatly enhance their reputation, be able to interact with sportsmen in a positive way, and actually get/share info on fishing/ice conditions.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Funny part was when he checked me and told me "we CO's, we read the internet too" after I spelled out what had happened on American Tackle's website calling him out by name. I asked him if anything I posted was false, and he wouldn't answer. 


One of the CO's that patrolled the Muskegon Wastewater also hunted the MWW a lot. He ended up in the other half of my zone once. We had a couple ducks come in right after hours and didn't shoot. As we met at the road putting our decoys away, he laughed and told me he'd have shot those ducks. Told him he should have yelled that we should have shot those ducks. We still joke about that. Watched him cuff a guy to his quad once too. Was kind of worried he was going to drag him out wild west style.

Had a CO meet me at the launch in Saugatuck one who knew that I caught a brown on a rapala and a laker on a spoon. Never saw another boat around. He finally confessed he was on a dune with a spotting scope. How good of optics do they get issued?


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

I think Park Rangers are worse than the DNR

Had a little run-in with them in the Everglades a few months back. Mind you, been fishing the Glades for almost 20 years, mostly out of Mingo where you actually go through the entrance with a toll booth and buy your pass.

Recently there's a new law due to the Park System operating at a loss that regardless of how you enter the Park you need the pass. 4 of us (2 boats) came by sea....LOL

At first it was primarily a safety check, then to make sure we're not wanted anywhere, fishing license and combed the boat!!! Even checked my wife's purse for either fish or dope.

Finally asked about the Park Pass! Got a stern warning! I'm sure with our MC numbers and my buddy's boat being SC we were easy targets. $55 bucks a year, or take a test and get an ENP boat permit.

Took the free test. Can't wait to see them again.

(not mine)


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

@Far Beyond Driven no this fine officer's name started with a R. Heard he patrols Saginaw county now. He was known to walk out and check people in their stands the last hour of hunting then tell em good luck as he went trampling off. He stopped me 4 days in a row including twice in one day to check my license right as I pulled outta the camp parking lot, kept my base license the last time so I figured I wasn't gonna replace it and if I got checked again by him or another officer I'd tell em Sgt r has my base license.


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## MuddybootsGB (May 14, 2016)

I'm sure there a some questionable encounters, just only natural when people are involved. My last encounter with a CO was about 12 miles offshore St. Joe last year. That is correct 12 miles offshore. I saw a boat coming out to us and told my buddy this is a CO and he said NFW too far out. Yep, they slowed down, I am sure looking over our spread for total rods and then came over to us. Asked us to see license from a respectable distance of at least over 50 yards from us which we showed nicely. Then asked us if we caught anything. I said no but we did catch a couple of lakers.... He darn near fell out of the boat laughing so hard and wished us a good day and good luck. I have been checked countless times on public land during deer season, had CO waiting for us at truck numerous times, all good professional encounters and wished us good hunting or good fishing. 

My boat trailer was vandalized late in evening at Benton Harbor launch couple years ago and I called a CO about it since the security lighting was off at the launch. He took my info to contact BH police on his own to report the incident and to request increase patrols there and gave me info to contact with complaint which I did. He genuinely cared that my truck and boat trailer was vandalized. Heck they even stole my plate tag which was a big PITA. But my trailer brakes were trashed along with other damage. I now launch at St. Jo side of river and absolutely love it there. 

I guess I have been "lucky"? Or just dealing with normal professional LEO's that we all expect.


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## 22 Chuck (Feb 2, 2006)

There have been some up this way kinda like that.

One case-friend was in shanty fishing, his was only car in parking lot on lake shore. CO walked out and checked his license--4 days in a row..

Other case-CO was at a meeting of hunters explaining shooting hours-- shooting starts at 9 AM (or whatever it was)
BY MY WATCH-he had to add.. big deal.


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## Joe Archer (Mar 29, 2000)

Reminds me of a good question ...
What is the difference between God and a Game Warden?
Answer: God doesn't think he's a game warden.
...at least for some of these guys it seems! 
<----<<<


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## waxico (Jan 21, 2008)

MuddybootsGB said:


> I'm sure there a some questionable encounters, just only natural when people are involved. My last encounter with a CO was about 12 miles offshore St. Joe last year. That is correct 12 miles offshore. I saw a boat coming out to us and told my buddy this is a CO and he said NFW too far out. Yep, they slowed down, I am sure looking over our spread for total rods and then came over to us. Asked us to see license from a respectable distance of at least over 50 yards from us which we showed nicely. Then asked us if we caught anything. I said no but we did catch a couple of lakers.... He darn near fell out of the boat laughing so hard and wished us a good day and good luck. I have been checked countless times on public land during deer season, had CO waiting for us at truck numerous times, all good professional encounters and wished us good hunting or good fishing.
> 
> My boat trailer was vandalized late in evening at Benton Harbor launch couple years ago and I called a CO about it since the security lighting was off at the launch. He took my info to contact BH police on his own to report the incident and to request increase patrols there and gave me info to contact with complaint which I did. He genuinely cared that my truck and boat trailer was vandalized. Heck they even stole my plate tag which was a big PITA. But my trailer brakes were trashed along with other damage. I now launch at St. Jo side of river and absolutely love it there.
> 
> I guess I have been "lucky"? Or just dealing with normal professional LEO's that we all expect.


That will teach you to stay on the right side of the river.
What a shame.


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## bucko12pt (Dec 9, 2004)

I’ve hunted in PA since the 1970’s and they take baiting violations very seriously. They shut a 1000 acre plus property near our camp down for the entire season for baiting. Sounds like this CO took it a bit beyond where he should have. 

What I thought was funny was the CO would taste the soil for salt from a baited area....now that’s taking your job seriously. :lol:

I’ve never had that many encounters with CO’s in MI, but the ones I’ve had have been good. 

I did have a bad experience in Wyoming. We were driving around our hunting area on public roads two days before the opener. The road we were on made a 90 degree degree turn to the left about a 1/2 mile up the road from us. We saw the CO’s pickup coming towards us beyond the turn. I wasn’t driving fast because we were scouting. When he got about 100’ in front of us he cut right over into my lane so when I jammed on the brakes we were hood to hood prob 10’ apart. I was pi$$ed and let him know about it immediately. He was pretty apologetic after that and didn’t even ask for our licenses. I didn’t tell him, but if he screwed with us at all I was going to talk to his boss. That was BS and I told him that. Hell, he didn’t even know we were hunters. 

No, it wasn’t Joe Pickett, if you know who he is?? :lol::lol:


I have a friend that is an excavating contractor. He was doing a job on a county road and had a dump truck, trailer and dozer. The road did not have a shoulder to park on, so he unloaded the dozer and parked in a boat launch across the street with prob 30-40 parking spots and no cars parked in it. CO came along and wrote him a ticket. He told him situation and CO would have none of it, wouldn’t even let him move. I thought that was pretty chicken ****.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

bucko12pt said:


> I’ve hunted in PA since the 1970’s and they take baiting violations very seriously. They shut a 1000 acre plus property near our camp down for the entire season for baiting. Sounds like this CO took it a bit beyond where he should have.
> 
> What I thought was funny was the CO would taste the soil for salt from a baited area....now that’s taking your job seriously. :lol:
> 
> ...


I wonder if he had a recreation passport on his vehicle? 

C.J. Box is one of my favorite authors.

I rode with a CO for a shift once about 15 years ago for a story. He cut off and stopped on coming vehicles several times that day just checking them for loaded guns in the vehicles. These were on back roads. None of them were doing anything wrong.

I read somewhere that piss has a salty taste. I hope no COs check (taste) my mock scrapes.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

i think I am kinda liking the idea to require probable cause to check licenses


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## bucko12pt (Dec 9, 2004)

Trophy Specialist said:


> I wonder if he had a recreation passport on his vehicle?
> 
> C.J. Box is one of my favorite authors.
> 
> ...



I doubt he had a recreation passport, who would put one on a dump truck? I know he was technically in violation, but given the fact it was a weekday, no other place to park a truck and trailer and there was plenty of room in the launch area, you’d think the CO would at least give him a break. 

Just picked up only two CJ Box books I haven’t read at used bookstore.


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

bucko12pt said:


> I doubt he had a recreation passport, who would put one on a dump truck? I know he was technically in violation, but given the fact it was a weekday, no other place to park a truck and trailer and there was plenty of room in the launch area, you’d think the CO would at least give him a break.
> 
> Just picked up only two CJ Box books I haven’t read at used bookstore.


Sometimes it seems there is that one law enforcement officer that trys just alittle too hard, I always wondered if that was the ones that were hall monitors and picked on in school.


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

Former grunt said:


> Sometimes it seems there is that one law enforcement officer that trys just alittle too hard, I always wondered if that was the ones that were hall monitors and picked on in school.


If they were trying hard they would be back in the forest catching the real crooks.

Ive hunted michigan quite a bit for the last three years on public. Never stopped by a warden. Hunted all growing up on private. Never stopped.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

Two of the worst encounters I had with COs were not in Michigan. We were on a fly-in lake in Quebec fishing when a plane came in and landed by the cabin. We were probably a mile away and we just kept fishing. A little while later the plane took off. When the CO came back another day we were told that we had broken the law by not coming to the plane when the CO landed. We didn't know it was a CO's plane and didn't know about that law. He was very belligerent and ready to cuff us and haul us off too. In the end he just gave us a stern warning. I checked on that "law" when I got back to civilization and found out he was lying to us right through his teeth as there was no such law according to the CO I talked to. 

When I was living out west we had a dumb ass CO in our area that had an IQ about equal to his shoe size. We called him the Bucked Toothed Varmint because the name fit. He harassed us every time we ran into him, which was at least a half dozen times a year with the limited hunting opportunities near there. He would make me load and unload my double barrel shot gun while I was duck hunting just to make sure it only held three shells. He did this every time he found us water fowling too, sometimes several times in one week. He would also check our licenses several times a week too. One time I was duck hunting on the opener of a managed waterfowl area and a few of the hunters there cut loose a few minutes early. The guys I was hunting with and me did not shoot early though, but when we got back to our trucks, we found tickets on our windshield for shooting early written by the Buck Toothed Varmint. He ticketed every truck in the parking lot without exception then he left before anybody got back. I had to fight that one in court and won, but I had to take a day off work to travel to the court location, which was a long way from where I lived. He claimed that everybody hunting their that day was shooting early and since he had no means to get to the hunters, he did his thing on the vehicle. After that, he was going to give us a ticket for hunting after hours when he "caught" us walking back to the truck after hunting with our guns unloaded. I kept a copy of the hunting regs with me at all times though and showed him how he was wrong, so he let us off with a bucked tooth grin. He claimed that we were still hunting even though the guns were unloaded. His harassment never ended either even after complaints to supervisors.


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## Martin Looker (Jul 16, 2015)

Some people are on a power trip no matter where they work. I've seen it in the shop and in the military, there are a**holes no matter where you go.


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

shaffe48b said:


> If they were trying hard they would be back in the forest catching the real crooks.
> 
> Ive hunted michigan quite a bit for the last three years on public. Never stopped by a warden. Hunted all growing up on private. Never stopped.


I was talking more along the lines of the ones who power trip just because they can, I'm not anti law enforcement, I even thought about becoming a cop when I got outta the army. I've ran into into cops and game wardens that I've had pleasant experiences with even if I've received a ticket and then I also have ran into ones that are just a complete @$$hole.


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

Martin Looker said:


> Some people are on a power trip no matter where they work. I've seen it in the shop and in the military, there are a**holes no matter where you go.


Yep definitely ran into some guys in the army that thought just because they got that nco position they were a grown man and everyone else was a child well except the fresh outta basic privates, they were kinda like little kids. My personal favorite was the nco that's been in 6 years, never deployed and wanna treat the e-4 with 2 deployments in less then 4 years like garbage. The whole respect the rank not the person always flashed in my mind with those guys.


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## Former grunt (Feb 26, 2018)

Trophy Specialist said:


> Two of the worst encounters I had with COs were not in Michigan. We were on a fly-in lake in Quebec fishing when a plane came in and landed by the cabin. We were probably a mile away and we just kept fishing. A little while later the plane took off. When the CO came back another day we were told that we had broken the law by not coming to the plane when the CO landed. We didn't know it was a CO's plane and didn't know about that law. He was very belligerent and ready to cuff us and haul us off too. In the end he just gave us a stern warning. I checked on that "law" when I got back to civilization and found out he was lying to us right through his teeth as there was no such law according to the CO I talked to.
> 
> When I was living out west we had a dumb ass CO in our area that had an IQ about equal to his shoe size. We called him the Bucked Toothed Varmint because the name fit. He harassed us every time we ran into him, which was at least a half dozen times a year with the limited hunting opportunities near there. He would make me load and unload my double barrel shot gun while I was duck hunting just to make sure it only held three shells. He did this every time he found us water fowling too, sometimes several times in one week. He would also check our licenses several times a week too. One time I was duck hunting on the opener of a managed waterfowl area and a few of the hunters there cut loose a few minutes early. The guys I was hunting with and me did not shoot early though, but when we got back to our trucks, we found tickets on our windshield for shooting early written by the Buck Toothed Varmint. He ticketed every truck in the parking lot without exception then he left before anybody got back. I had to fight that one in court and won, but I had to take a day off work to travel to the court location, which was a long way from where I lived. He claimed that everybody hunting their that day was shooting early and since he had no means to get to the hunters, he did his thing on the vehicle. After that, he was going to give us a ticket for hunting after hours when he "caught" us walking back to the truck after hunting with our guns unloaded. I kept a copy of the hunting regs with me at all times though and showed him how he was wrong, so he let us off with a bucked tooth grin. He claimed that we were still hunting even though the guns were unloaded. His harassment never ended either even after complaints to supervisors.


That's weird a impolite Canadian, most of been the French side of him coming out lol


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## Sasquatch Lives (May 23, 2011)

Was hunting in AL years ago on national forest land with two buddies and we were heading out of the woods in my jeep. Coming around a turn and all of a sudden out of nowhere two guys come leaping out of the woods into the middle of the dirt road! Nearly ran them over! Two co's yelling stop stop stop. I was only going around 20 mph as it was a rough dirt road. They told me to turn off the vehicle and put our hands up. Man I was pissed cause they nearly caused me to run them over and I told them so. Told them you guys will be lucky to survive the day jumping in front of vehicles like that. They shook us down for no reason, checked all of our unloaded cased guns, licenses, car insurance, drivers license, rifled through the vehicle and seemed shocked to find no violations. Evidently this is what they used to call a "courtesy" check. Screw those guys. Have met only one co in MI and he was a decent fellow, no problem with him.


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## micooner (Dec 20, 2003)

I've ran into really only one at night while out chasing the hounds that I had a problem with. I've had at least a dozen contacts over 50 years of cooning. Worst one couple of years ago. Young guy, fresh out of the Marine Corps. Figured dnr was a good place to hone his law enforcement techniques while waiting for his call to the Michigan State Police. Just a plain in the azz prick to put it mildly. Sorry but that's what he come off as. Last I read he was giving them hell on the bell isle patrol when his name gets called.


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## piscatorial warrior (Sep 14, 2011)

I have had both good and bad experiences with COs. 1 bad with a CO in Harrisville 2007 and 1 bad at Foote Dam in the late 80's. At least 12 good encounters with them other than that.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

Martin Looker said:


> Some people are on a power trip no matter where they work. I've seen it in the shop and in the military, there are a**holes no matter where you go.


I saw one of those supervisors at a factory I worked at after high school. He would pick on one guy, then move on to another. Someone spiked all four tires and a note left on his windshield. I think I know who did it but no one confessed. He did back off and change his attitude. It's a shame that sometimes the only thing that gets through to them is retaliation.


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## JimP (Feb 8, 2002)

micooner said:


> I've ran into really only one at night while out chasing the hounds that I had a problem with. I've had at least a dozen contacts over 50 years of cooning. Worst one couple of years ago. Young guy, fresh out of the Marine Corps. Figured dnr was a good place to hone his law enforcement techniques while waiting for his call to the Michigan State Police. Just a plain in the azz prick to put it mildly. Sorry but that's what he come off as. Last I read he was giving them hell on the bell isle patrol when his name gets called.


In reality it mostly works the other way around. Many applicants to the DNR as LEO's are already State Troopers.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

JimP said:


> In reality it mostly works the other way around. Many applicants to the DNR as LEO's are already State Troopers.


Actually now days some COs and state boys are leaving state employment for local LEO jobs due to better benefits. The state does not have pensions for LEOs any more and some local LEO jobs still do. In the future we will have a bunch of geriatric COs doddling around beucase they won't be able to afford to retire early like they probably should. Not a good old man's job in my opinion, just like charter captains and other jobs where you have to be on your toes.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Michigan conservation officers defined pension.

https://www.michigan.gov/orsstatedb/0,4654,7-208-30580_31511_33970---,00.html


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## micooner (Dec 20, 2003)

JimP said:


> In reality it mostly works the other way around. Many applicants to the DNR as LEO's are already State Troopers.


I would not have thought that. My cousin came out of the air force mp's and right into Michigan troopers recruiting class. Never gave the dnr a glance. Spent a required year in the trenches "detroit " then transferred to the up. L'anse area. Never came down to the lower other than for weddings and funerals.


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## JimP (Feb 8, 2002)

Trophy Specialist said:


> Actually now days some COs and state boys are leaving state employment for local LEO jobs due to better benefits. The state does not have pensions for LEOs any more and some local LEO jobs still do. In the future we will have a bunch of geriatric COs doddling around beucase they won't be able to afford to retire early like they probably should. Not a good old man's job in my opinion, just like charter captains and other jobs where you have to be on your toes.


I made that statement after recalling an article published in Michigan Outdoor News a year or so ago after new funding was appropriated.
They profiled a new class of candidates in the DNR school and the many strict disciplines they need to accomplish. Many State Troopers and other LEO's were on the waiting list, so they said.


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

Luv2hunteup said:


> Michigan conservation officers defined pension.
> 
> https://www.michigan.gov/orsstatedb/0,4654,7-208-30580_31511_33970---,00.html


That would be for Conservation officers hired prior to 1997


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## alaska86 (Sep 29, 2010)

bucko12pt said:


> I doubt he had a recreation passport, who would put one on a dump truck? I know he was technically in violation, but given the fact it was a weekday, no other place to park a truck and trailer and there was plenty of room in the launch area, you’d think the CO would at least give him a break.
> 
> Just picked up only two CJ Box books I haven’t read at used bookstore.


The new Joe Pickett book, Long Range, will be available tomorrow


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## bucko12pt (Dec 9, 2004)

alaska86 said:


> The new Joe Pickett book, Long Range, will be available tomorrow


I’m not that much of a fan to pay new book price at the bookstore. I’ve been keeping the CJ Box books for my library at camp, so I usually buy them at Alibris or one of the other online used book stores, or at a local book store for $3-4 dollars. 
One thing about getting older is, you can read them a second, or third time and it’s always a new story!!:lol:


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

Luv2hunteup said:


> Michigan conservation officers defined pension.
> 
> https://www.michigan.gov/orsstatedb/0,4654,7-208-30580_31511_33970---,00.html


Only COs that were hired a long time ago have pensions. Same for corrections officers.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

Trophy Specialist said:


> The state does not have pensions for LEOs any more and some local LEO jobs still do. In the future we will have a bunch of geriatric COs doddling around because they won't be able to afford to retire early like they probably should.


Michigan State Police have their own retirement pension plan which is separate from the rest of the State of Michigan employees who are covered by the Defined Contribution plan.
State Police hired before June 10, 2012 are covered by the Defined Benefits Plan. State Police hired on or after June 10, 2012 are covered by the Pension Plus retirement plan which includes a pension and a retirement investment account.

http://www.mipensionplus.org/statepolice/yourplan.html

It would not make sense for a member of the State Police to leave the State Police in order to join the DNR as a Conservation Officer. Their State Police pension would be frozen, and they would enter into the State Employees Defined Contribution plan. Benefits under the Defined Contribution plan are not as good.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

Luv2hunteup said:


> Michigan conservation officers defined pension.
> 
> https://www.michigan.gov/orsstatedb/0,4654,7-208-30580_31511_33970---,00.html


Only COs that were hired a long time ago have pensions. Same for corrections officersec


Petronius said:


> Michigan State Police have their own retirement pension plan which is separate from the rest of the State of Michigan employees who are covered by the Defined Contribution plan.
> State Police hired before June 10, 2012 are covered by the Defined Benefits Plan. State Police hired on or after June 10, 2012 are covered by the Pension Plus retirement plan which includes a pension and a retirement investment account.
> 
> http://www.mipensionplus.org/statepolice/yourplan.html
> ...


Good to know. I knew that COs and most other state workers lost their pensions about 20 years ago and I thought it included state police too but evidently not, which is a good thing. In my opinion, law enforcement is not a job for old farts. Neither is being a charter captain.


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