# NRC Meeting, and where we go from here!



## Beaverhunter2 (Jan 22, 2005)

Let me start out by thanking all of you that made phone calls or sent letters or emails. Teresa Gloden told me she received 350 emails about the trapping reg changes! 

*The NRC Meeting went very well.*

To start out, the DNR has amended their recommendations. 

First they are not recommending a stop on the beaver snare. 

Second, they are also changing their bodygripper recommendation to not put any additional restrictions on bodygrippers 220 or smaller in dry sets on *private* land. They are still recommending that bodygrippers larger than 220 have to be in the water or 4' or more above the ground (public and private land).

They are continuing to recommend that bodygrippers larger than 160 on public land have to be 4' high (or higher) or in the water. They are also continuing to recommend that 160 have to be in a box if used with bait.

I'm going to get this up so folks will know about it. More to come!

All in all- very positive changes, I think!

OK, let me continue....

The Commission asked a lot of very good questions and were obviously interested in ensuring that any changes were truly warranted, and would accomplish the appropriate goals. I can say that the communication from trappers definitely got their attention.

Several trappers spoke or were in attendance. Most were happy with the DNR's revised proposal. There were concerns about the continuing recommendations regarding bodygrippers on public land. No one at the meeting spoke in support of the original proposal. 

So where do we go from here?

One of our recommendations is that the DNR be directed to study bodygripper boxes to determine what is actually required to protect dogs while keeping the traps as efficient as possible for trapping raccoons. We have developed a tool that can be installed in a box and tests performed to see if a dog can actually get into the trap. We also want to test the baits or other attractants to see if trappers can avoid non-targets with appropriate baits. 

After testing the boxes, we want to take them into the field and try to catch some raccoons to see how effective they are. Obviously we need to strike a balance. 

We ask you to send letters to the NRC. Support the changes the DNR has made to the recommendations. Thank them for their obvious interest in this matter.

We are also asking that they delay implementing the changes to the bodygripper regs (the restricted opening boxes) on public land. This part is very important! With the restrictions in place, we could not test the various box designs- except on private land. I, for one would be out of the testing process at that point- I trap almost exclusively on public land.

BTW I spoke to Teresa Gloden about that emails she received. She asked that if you are sending emails to support something, please make it short and to the point. She has to read each one, determine what the issues are, forward it to the DNR Staff and the NRC, and then file it appropriately. That poor woman must need glasses after plowing throgh those 350 emails!

There you go, folks! All the calls, letters, and emails seem to have had an impact! Thanks!


John


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## Black Powder Trapper (Feb 15, 2008)

Thanks to all who could get there BTW any info on the bobcat issue

Dale


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## lang49 (Aug 1, 2005)

Thank you John!

I'll be curious to see if they've altered the restriction of a 6 inch opening on 160 cubby boxes. I like using the box with a 160 but still think the 6 inch opening is too restrictive.

Thanks again!


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## 9 (Jan 17, 2000)

Thanks for taking the time and consideration of putting this report up John, I'm sure it's been a long day for you guys.

It appears that the email response may have been an eye-opener to them and drew appropriate attention.

Thank you all who were able to attend and represent us down there today!


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## Fur-minator (Nov 28, 2007)

Thanks to John, Snareman, Griff and Gill for speaking to the commission and defending our rights as trappers. 

It was good to talk with you Ed and John. I learned alot today. Didn't get a chance to talk to you Griff or Gill but thanks and I'll chat with ya next time.

Mark


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## griffondog (Dec 27, 2005)

First off thanks for all the letters ,you guys did well. Second we owe John a big thanks he knows how to talk to the right people. Gill and Ed also did a stand up job for us guys.

Were going to still have to do some work on restricted entry 220 coni boxes on public land. They still want only vertical boxes we need to get horizontal boxes allowed. They will be restricted entry but I think we can make it work.

We need to get the new wording on the proposals before we know exactly what we need to do. When that happens get ready to start writing again.

Mike


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## Beaverhunter2 (Jan 22, 2005)

OK, I pasted some more stuff in the email above. 

As far as the bobcat issue-

The DNR recommended that the UP trapping season be changed to Dec 1 to Feb 1 and that the hunting season be from Jan 1 to Mar 1. At the September Furbearer Workgroup Meeting, the DNR had offered two options to the various user groups to choose from:

1. Reduce the bobcat limit to one statewide (UP and NLP combined).
2. The season change as defined above.

The United Trappers Council stated that they preferred the season change over the limit reduction.

As far as the inequities between NLP bobcat hunting and trapping, the DNR did not recommend any action on this for the 2009-2010 season. If you look at the list above along with all the activity around them, I think you'll agree they took on a lot. Therefore, we suspect that this season will be no different than last season. However, it is an issue the DNR has agreed to discuss for 2010-2011. 

Not exactly what we want, but it could be a lot worse.

Mike, Gil, and Ed- Nice job! Well spoken - very professional! You guys represented the Trapping Community very well!

John


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## Black Powder Trapper (Feb 15, 2008)

John at least it looks like we minimized our losses and I am sure the battle will continue. We will have to wait for the final wording but it looks good to me. At this point they have the idea that we will not role over and play dead. We can address more issues later. Thanks again to all who could go and those that spoke. 350 emails is great but next time lets try and double that 

Dale


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## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

things went well today. after my scenic tour of detroit, I got there just in time for the meeting.learned alot on how things work,and how they dont.after the body grip and snare regs got worked out, I didnt have much to say. other than please open up some public land in the zone two cat trapping area.

the one thing I did get from this,is that the state DNR is facing some tuff times budget wise. we are all going to have to step up on what we want from the DNR. I think they do a great job with all they have to do. but money is getting tight. we trappers are a little part of the outdoors,to keep from getting ignored, we are going have to make ourselfs heard.

it was good to see everyone who made it down, and many thanks to all who wrote and called in. I think it worked well. thats my two cents.


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## Rustyaxecamp (Mar 1, 2005)

Sounds like it was a good meeting. I like the revisions.

Thanks to all who wrote and attended.


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## LarryA (Jun 16, 2004)

Congratulations guys, good job. 

On a side note, I have been talking to graduate students trying to get some interested in doing a raccoon refusal study with boxes and baits. I believe it would be fairly easy with the aid of infrared trail cameras. Unfortunately, I haven't had any takers yet.


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## Gary A. Schinske (Jul 10, 2006)

Thank you to all those that did their part on this very important issue. It not only shows that a united voice has an impact, but I hope it really establishes a better working relationship between the MDNR as well as all four of the trapping organizations in the future. While there was considerable action by trappers the number of trappers that took action appears to be about 10% of the trappers in Michigan. When we come under direct attack by the antis we will need much more support than that. A special thanks to John Caretti for getting out the special edition of the MTA new letter "Call to Action" as well as doing some extraordinary things to get time off work to be at the entire NRC meeting. I really appreciate Gill and Mike also from the MTA Board and Snareman (Ed?) being at the meeting to help represent our trappers. Thanks again, but PLEASE to not think the call for action is over. If you are a trapper, getting involved will be needed continually in the future to protect our privilege to trap. In fact starting today with a thank you to the NRC members would be in order.


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## Black Powder Trapper (Feb 15, 2008)

We only got a little bloody nose on this one the war goes on.

Dale


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## Beaverhunter2 (Jan 22, 2005)

Black Powder Trapper said:


> We only got a little bloody nose on this one the war goes on.
> 
> Dale


 
Who are you fighting, Dale?

The way I see it, we need to get the box restrictions delayed until we can test them out. Once we can develop some recommended techniques that are more than someone's "best guess", we'll have finally clarified "in a box inaccessible to dogs".

Other than that, I think the DNR's revised recommendations are very positive:

We should get the increased colony trap size.

We should get the beaver snare without the stop (in exactly the configuration we wanted!).

The DNR recommendations conform to our preference regarding the options for UP Bobcats.

Other than not allowing 280s and above on dry private land, there has been no change to the private land bodygripper regs.

Not _too bad_, I think!

John


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## Black Powder Trapper (Feb 15, 2008)

John don't take it the wrong way we came out of this smelling like a rose everyone did a great job and I recognize that the MDNR gave a lot if the wording goes the way we expect. I look forward to a long and good relationship with them however we have to keep in mind that they are confronted by many users and the concern of public perception of things that the public does not understand. The only thing I was trying to get across is that we are far from done. I believe that there will be many more issues like this that come up and we have to be diligent just like we were this time. I was not trying to slam anyone just feel we have an up hill battle and always will. I have been a hunter safety instructor for 18 years and a bow ed instructor for 3 years and look forward to teaching trapper ed. If I didn't respect what the DNR tries to do with what they have I would have trouble spending that time. I guess that the language may not have been the best choice.

Dale


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## daoejo22 (May 7, 2009)

Overall it sounds very good. The bobcat thing is a different story. I caught 3 last year, 4 the year before, I'm sick and tired of releasing cats that nobody wants on their property to begin with. And one of them almost clawed me this year (missed by about an inch) when running away. The DNR told me to set traps somewhere else. They are not cat sets, they are yote/fox sets, just to many cats in Oceana/Newaygo counties.


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## Beaverhunter2 (Jan 22, 2005)

Now I understand, Dale. I agree- the fight to preserve trapping will likely never end.

As far as the NLP Bobcat issue- polite leeters to the NRC ad DNR will keep it in the forefront of their minds. Like I said- based on our discussions, we're hoping for next year.

John


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## Black Powder Trapper (Feb 15, 2008)

Our biggest obstacle as I see it is public perception and we need to keep working on that very hard. Political pressure can drive a lot of things to happen that make no sense. Like was mentioned a short thank you for listening and taking action would be an excellent idea as people appreciate it when they are recognized for action. The DNR and NRC both took action that was mostly in our favor. The bobcat issue and others will just be other items to work on and through our co-operative continuing contact and work with the DNR hopefully they will take our suggestion more seriously than in the past at the fur group meetings. 

Dale


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## David G Duncan (Mar 26, 2000)

John Caretti,

Thank you for your outstanding job in representing all us trappers!

Also, I know that it was a team effort with lots of support from Griff, Gil and Ed, as well any other trappers that took the time and effort to attend this important meeting.

I am sending a short email to the DNR to thank them for their positive efforts in listening to Michigan Trappers regarding to these proposed changes. [email protected] Hopefully, she will get even more than 350 email expressing trapper's positive responds to the NRC meeting.

Testing conibear boxes is a great idea from my standpoint and I am confident that it will lead to a much better proposal in regard to protecting pets.

Looking forward to future reports from you, on the progress of these efforts to ensure our trapping rights are protected.


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## walkercoonhunter (Feb 17, 2006)

I have a couple questions for you guys. I'm going to start by saying that I'm an avid trapper and I'm actually getting paid to do so as a nuisance trapper now as well. I'm in no way against trapping but I have to questions the reasons for being opposed to the restrictions the DNR proposed for 220 and smaller conis in a baited set. Why is it a big deal to keep a lid on a bucket or box? And how is state land that different then private?

Im sure by my user name you guys can see why I am concerned with this. I can see if the set wasn't baited and one of our dogs stumbled upon a set by dumb luck, but I for one hunt a lot puppies and they may or may not have the brains to keep there head out a bucket that has bait and a conibare big enough to kill them in it. It causes a big concern for me, a lot of the areas I hunt are also trapped. I see the idea of the restriction more like responsible trapping, because heaven forbid "Johnny Richman's" wife has little ole FiFi caught in one. lol

Thanks guys


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