# Wirehaired Pointing Griffon search....for a buddy.



## Bobby (Dec 21, 2002)

Firemedic said:


> Bobby I've seen finished, truly broke quality pointers go for less than 3 grand. But not STWS, the ones I know don't play in that venue.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A finished, truely broke dog is steady to wing and shot. If it's anything less it is not finished........or truely broke. This statement has nothing to do with the venue a dog is used (I think you are referring to trial dogs)


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## RecurveRx (Jun 21, 2004)

Firemedic said:


> Bobby I've seen finished, truly broke quality pointers go for less than 3 grand. But not STWS, the ones I know don't play in that venue.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
Serious question here. Can a dog be considered broke if he is not STWS? 

Before getting my first bird dog, I would have said you would have to be flat bat *** crazy to spend $5000 on a finished dog. Now I get it. Considering all the training, time, and tools that go into the process, $5000 is probably pretty reasonable.

Bobby - I like the avatar upgrade. Though the previous one might have done a better job of capturing your "essencce.":evil:


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## Firemedic (Apr 5, 2005)

So Bobby, if I am reading your post correctly, you're telling me 99% of dogs in NSTRA aren't fully broke, because they aren't STWS? I haven't been in the game that long, so I admit I don't know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## griffondog (Dec 27, 2005)

Hevi said:


> I have a good friend of mine looking for a reputable WPG breeder. He is also kicking around the idea of a started dog. If anyone has any positive leads, let me know.
> 
> Matt-


I got my pup about 1500 miles away. If your friend wants to do a road trip have him PM me. I'm training my pup to be S.T.O.C.A right now. S.T.W.A.S comes last.

Griff










She is almost Steady to Oncoming Coyote Attack


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## RecurveRx (Jun 21, 2004)

Bobby said:


> A finished, truely broke dog is steady to wing and shot. If it's anything less it is not finished........or truely broke. This statement has nothing to do with the venue a dog is used (I think you are referring to trial dogs)


 
Bobby, we must have been posting at the same time. Your post answers my question.


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

Firemedic said:


> So Bobby, if I am reading your post correctly, you're telling me 99% of dogs in NSTRA aren't fully broke, because they aren't STWS? I haven't been in the game that long, so I admit I don't know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. A truly broke dog is steady to wing, shot and fall.


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## billya (Jun 7, 2001)

I would check with Charlie Lindblade a michigan hunter/trainer. I hunted behind some WPG that reminded me of GWP's Wanted to buy a pup but the cost was too much. 1200.00 for a WPG pup but cool good dogs with good looks, good hunting, and demeaner.. 

Got a GWP in the oven right now. Looking forward to pee/shat/ training.. 

Good luck.


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## Bobby (Dec 21, 2002)

Firemedic said:


> So Bobby, if I am reading your post correctly, you're telling me 99% of dogs in NSTRA aren't fully broke, because they aren't STWS? I haven't been in the game that long, so I admit I don't know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've never been to a NSTRA event. I have no idea what is expected, what is normal, what wins. But a dog that isn't steady to wing, shot, fall and then extending to the point where the handler relaeases the dog following the afore mentioned events, is not a broke dog or a finished dog. That doesn't mean they aren't a good bird dog or a great bird dog. I just means they aren't finished as most dog folks define finished.


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## Drifter Saver (Sep 13, 2005)

In my eyes, broke is a term applied to a STWS dog that may or may not retrieve. Finished is a term commonly applied to a dog that is broke to everything except the shot and 100% reliable on the retrieve. Both are usually fully trained results for different wants.

Back to the point, I think Firemedic meant to say "started dog" (correct me if I am wrong).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## windknot (Jul 22, 2001)

Bobby said:


> ...........and I swore an oath in 1979 that I would stay married 'till death do us part......that was the practice spouse....:evil:


Me too....my practice spouse was a lot like a Pointer...TINY WAIST......REALLY GOOD LOOKING, way too much energy, couldn't keep her in the house, she ran around all the time and 

CRAZIER THAN A SSHHIITTHOUSE RAT!!!!

I should have had her put to sleep instead of giving her up to the next dummy to come along...would have strengthened the breed if I would have:lol::lol::lol::lol:

(I'm no bitter.....I'M BETTER....REALLY!!!)


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## windknot (Jul 22, 2001)

windknot said:


> Me too....my practice spouse was a lot like a Pointer...TINY WAIST......REALLY GOOD LOOKING, way too much energy, couldn't keep her in the house, she ran around all the time and
> 
> CRAZIER THAN A SSHHIITTHOUSE RAT!!!!
> 
> ...


For all those pointer owners out there....

I apologize.....I should have never put such a wicked beast in the same category as your dogs!!!!


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## windknot (Jul 22, 2001)

Drifter Saver said:


> Wow...anyone know where I can buy an entire litter of Griffs? That is nonsense pricing, but I guess there is an a** for every seat (at least that is what my grandfather used to say).


My apologies...I should have been more clear. I was originally looking for a "well started" dog, which doesn't exist in any standard definition. I was looking for a dog that was steady to shot, retrieves to hand on land and in water - essentially a finished gundog. When speaking to different breeders/trainers, when I would describe what I was looking for in a dog, that was the standard price....$5 grand.....which, when you think about it isn't a lot (given the context ) for a dog that is trained to hunt upland and waterfowl. 

The following was not in any way, shape or form an attempt to start a war about dogs or prices. If I was void of the health that has robbed me of my ability to hunt on foot for miles and miles and miles while hoofing it behind a fast moving/hard charging bird machine, I probably would have never started looking at the Korthal. 

Fortunately, when I started inquiries about what was the best dog for a guy with 5 stents in his heart, a bad knee and (most recently) a fused lower spine - that would be used for Michigan Woods, Michigan Marshes and the occasional trip out west or a trip to the local preserve - I was looking for a slower closer working/walking hunter's dog...pretty much everyone said the same thing: WPG. Admittedly, they also said..."get a setter" or "get a pointer" they can be trained to hunt close and not range too far out. You dont have to change a WPG to do those things, they do them naturally.

Again...not trying to start a flame war, just a gentle (bull in a china shop) reminder that not everyone is looking for a Setter or a Pointer...and as such, you'll typically have to pay more for a dog that is not as widely bred as the Setter or the Pointer or (God forbid) a Lab!!!:lol:


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## #8 shot (Aug 27, 2009)

In my opinion to be considered a finished dog it must be STWS, back and retrieve on command.

As for setters and pointers verse the griffon, I just chose" The Supreme Gun Dog" . I am not saying the best upland dog, but the the best gun dog.

When it cold and freezing rain outside and the pointers and setters are in the kennel or snuggled on the couch :lol:, we go hunting . The ducks and geese will still fly.

I just kidding ( mostly :evil. I think you have to find the dog that best fits the style of hunting you like to do.


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

Bobby said:


> A finished, truely broke dog is steady to wing and shot. If it's anything less it is not finished........or truely broke. This statement has nothing to do with the venue a dog is used (I think you are referring to trial dogs)



Does a finished dog retrieve?


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## Bobby (Dec 21, 2002)

Steelheadfred said:


> Does a finished dog retrieve?


Retrieving would be the whipped cream on that perfect sundae. That get's us back to the definition of finished. I suppose we may all have a slightly different intrepretation. Redheads, blonds, brunettes, big un's and little, legs up to here, setters, pointers, brits or silver pointing labs.....hey!


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## Bobby (Dec 21, 2002)

windknot said:


> Me too....my practice spouse was a lot like a Pointer...TINY WAIST......REALLY GOOD LOOKING, way too much energy, couldn't keep her in the house, she ran around all the time and
> 
> CRAZIER THAN A SSHHIITTHOUSE RAT!!!!
> 
> ...


That is the best post I have read in quite some time.


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## kek25 (Jul 9, 2005)

Steelheadfred said:


> Does a finished dog retrieve?


I don't think a dog is truly finished unless it retrieves too. I hate hunting the dog I trial and not having him retrieve. When he's down by himself it is a major PITA coaxing/talking him through the retrieve, and then it's a half-assed retrieve to boot. Fortunately he has some natural retrieve in him. He will be force broke soon.

A dog that can remain fully finished? Now that to me separates the wheat from the chaff. 

This is what I strive for:

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOLmIAg2i5Q&feature=channel"]YouTube- steady[/nomedia]











sorry for the hijack


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## Drifter Saver (Sep 13, 2005)

Keith,

Don't you have to hit something before you worry about the retrieve? :lol:


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## kek25 (Jul 9, 2005)

Drifter Saver said:


> Keith,
> 
> Don't you have to hit something before you worry about the retrieve? :lol:


I know you just wait in the weeds for these moments, Joe. :lol:

Fortunately, the guys I hunt with can hit the broadside of a barn.


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## Bear Creek (Feb 9, 2003)

griffondog said:


> I got my pup about 1500 miles away. If your friend wants to do a road trip have him PM me. I'm training my pup to be S.T.O.C.A right now. S.T.W.A.S comes last.
> 
> Griff
> 
> ...


Hey Griff, 

That yote looks a little sick, what did you find an old country vet truck to try and have him doctored up!! :lol::lol:

BC


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## thelastlemming (Sep 11, 2009)

Dejac Pine has a litter of 3 males and 7 females on the ground right now. As of yesterday some were still available. I had a deposit on this litter, Julie at dejacs emailed me a while back to let me know that the pregnancy didn't take and they didn't plan on having any litters this fall. I'd already promised my son a pup so we bought a setter. Anyway I've received a few recent emails from dejac the pregnancy was good and the pups whelped a few days ago.


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## N M Mechanical (Feb 7, 2008)

After all started dog finished dog debate would your friend be interested in Drahthaars? More in the mid west to choose from.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## loomisfun (Sep 22, 2003)

N M Mechanical said:


> After all started dog finished dog debate would your friend be interested in Drahthaars? More in the mid west to choose from.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was doing the same search, for the same friend. For years a Drath has been a consideration but there are concerns for temperment around non family members. The concern centers predominantly around friends of his young child.


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## N M Mechanical (Feb 7, 2008)

Mine are in my shop everyday and between customers, sales reps & UPS guys they act the same as my lab. I don't have kids but I do have nephews 7 and 5 they have never been growled at from my drahthaars
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

Friend and member on this board just had a littler of Drahts from a proven champion german standards breeding, born this week, i "think" of 9 4 are still available. PM if interested.


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## vulcanmag (Sep 22, 2009)

You might want to consider Large Munsterlanders.. owned them for 20 yrs.. might fill the niche your looking for re: temperment, performance, ability.. currently I am a recovering waterfowl addict, with a pronounced upland affiliation,,, post labs, goldens, curly coated retrievers, my LM dogs do both WELL, and have been great home/family companions.. I can give you phone numbers of converts.. honest opinions to use for comparison. I haven't looked back.. my LM"s do the job day in/out, plus are great footwarmers at night.. one of the most intelligent and easily trained/exposure breeds I have seen.

contact me for information or contact numbers..
kevin/vulcan


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