# Zone 2 2005 Waterfowl Season Thoughts



## sprigdog (Jan 29, 2004)

Linda, i read and re-read all your posts concerning this topic. 
What i'm gathering is 2 things. Please correct me if i'm mis-interpreting your writing.

1. Your upset about not having the late Jan 2 day hunt (me too)
2. Your area just didnt have ducks to hunt, or the weather was horrible.warm/cold

Not having the 2 day season hurt me also, but i cannot justify missing a couple weeks of so/so hunting for 2 days of great hunting.

And with the way our season was set, apparently all the ducks came through when the season was closed for 2 weeks cause it was open early and you said it stunk and it was open late and you said it stunk.

The late 2 day is AWESOME, but if our season was open all december, do you think the hunting would be like that? Those birds would be educated on those river spots by day 3.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

You're pretty much right on...except for the part about birds coming through during the period in October/November when the season was closed. A few did, mostly mallards, but the majority of the birds didn't come through till just before Christmas

No, we can't change what the weather is doing to our hunting, but we CAN change the hunting. And from what we've seen in the last 4 years, the weather is indeed changing. I've never seen the migrations as late as they were this year. 

Whether hunting into December would affect the birds or not, I don't know. I suppose it would depend on two things, how many birds were in the area when hunters were out, and how many hunters hunted those birds in mid-late December. 

From what I've seen over the years, the birds are coming later and later every year, some keep right on going, some stay a while, and some are STILL here. In fact, a lot of them, judging from the 86 mallards and approximately 100 divers in three different groups this morning. But we are freezing over again, they should be gone soon. Many will stay in the rivers all winter, tho. 

And, from what I've seen, very few hunters have the time to get out there on a regular basis at all anymore. Give them two special days, and sure, they're all going to try to be out there. But I doubt that would be the case if hunting that late was part of the regular season. Only a few folks are out at all up here after opening day in October, in fact. 

I don't know. But I think it's worth a try, or something like that. We may not be sure of what the hunting would be like, but we never are when we keep changing these seasons around like we have been-you have to find out by actually hunting at that time. One thing, tho, that I'm fairly certain of, no matter how bad the weather is, about hunting later in December or a couple of days in January, there will be birds around, at least on the rivers and big lakes. A lot more birds than we have in October. 

I know a lot of people that would give up two weeks of so-so hunting for two days of good hunting. Myself included. It isn't worth the hassle of getting all the gear together and getting everybody out there to see 4-5 ducks all morning or evening and take one or two, or like most people's average hunts up here, none. It is most definitely worth getting all the people and gear together for two days of seeing ducks fly everywhere, whether you shoot them or not. 

And I'd like a crack at hunting them.


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## Trout Scout (Apr 27, 2005)

Have to agree with sprigdog if we have 60 days liked the way it was this year. If we have 45 day season would like split but not in Oct 20th to Nov 10 window because most of our birds move on this time table on a normal year if there is such a thing. The other thing is most of people commenting on this forum hunt both divers, dabblers and geese (I think from there previous posts) so most of us adapted thats why we shoot and enjoy the hunting. How many people actually hunted Jan days in NE Michigan when it was in? I know how many groups hunted Alpena county approx. 10 groups in whole county because I drove most of the area after we hunted. When I was on CWAC it was my understanding seasons would include dates that were hunter friendly. Not where you were in danger of ice moving in, no open water, no crops and basically 2 days that were not used in our area and give up for other days when you could hunt.(Groups were lined up below Dams on river system.) Really likedthe goose season this year in Zone 2. Ms Gallagher do youhunt different areas in zone 2or same area? I assume you hunt a river system? If you are talking about mallards migrating in Dec in our area they just move to open water of the rivers. No lakes or ponds open and no FEED. Not Migrating just moving. ED


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

During the regular season I move around Zone 2 as much as I can, hunting my area as well as up in Cheboygan County, over in Alcona County, and over in GT County. I've also hunted a couple of spots over the years in Roscommon and Clare Counties. I'm an outdoor writer, I move around as much as I can for stories. We hunt whatever's available at that time, lakes, fields, rivers. 

During the two years of late 2 day seasons, I hunted just river systems in my area, but again, I'm a writer, and have done two different summaries of both seasons, talking to waterfowlers all over northern Michigan. 

Mallards do move into the river systems, but a lot of them migrate further south, especially when it's very cold and most of their preferred waters freeze up.


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## TNL (Jan 6, 2005)

Split seasons are good idea. Weather is always a crap shoot and no one can predict it, so why not try to cover both an early and a late migration. There will be years when an early freeze shuts us out, years when we hit it perfectly, and years when it happens during the hiatus.

I would also champion the idea of 3 staggered openers-UP, NL, and SL. Again, it covers as much of the calender as possible. Also, have the late season any other day but New Year's  . The equation would look like this: 60 day season - 2 days for late season = 58 days
Stagger the openers and stagger the splits. 

Linda, I hunted your neck of the woods a couple of times this season and got either a sunburn or frostbite. My timimg was cetainly off, but it seemed like there were a lack of brids on the Upper and Lower Chain. We didn't do that much better down here on the west shore. I would consider this year to be marginal at best, but I still like the later season and the late season. 

TNL


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## Zink (Jan 9, 2006)

Our crew had the best year so far in 11 yrs of hunting, killed 209 ducks and 102 geese, but I think the season needs to start earlier to kill some of those teal and woodies that leave the first of october. I know alot of people around here want later seasons to kill those big nothern birds. But i'm happy blazin away at teal going 100 mph and this year they all left by the time the season got started in the bay.

I also think there should not be a goose season during ANY DEER SEASON WITH A GUN. It's to dangerous to be in the goose field when you have a bunch of crazy road hunting deer hunters driving around the thumb.


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## sprigdog (Jan 29, 2004)

Zink said:


> driving around the thumb.



so if you be in the THUMB, you be in zone ONE. did you notice the thread title or were you in zone 2's thumb. and where may that be?


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## Branta (Feb 6, 2002)

Historically speaking,

Peak migration through michigan is late October / early november.

This (in part) is based on surveys conducted by the MDNR throughout the season and refuge counts at the GMA's.

that's not to say that there are not other pushes earlier or later through out the season. there's usually another (smaller) push in late nov/early december.


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## Trout Scout (Apr 27, 2005)

Ms. Gallagher,I've only hunted ducks for 40 some years; I know they move when it freezes. dah. I was just saying a lot of the birds that you find on the river's during the Jan season are birds that will stay most of winter if water stays open and a lot these birds have moved from inland lakes (Mallards) and if water opens back up they will move back because a lot of property owners feed them. If you noticed a lot of them are drakes and look at the studies and drakes move last(mallards). Also, if you hunted Alcona county and didn't see or shoot ducks better find a different spot or friend. 
Branta thanks for all the great comments on this forum. Ed
I'm sure I have run into you in Thumb area and Fish pt area.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

Nice of you to make blanket assumptions about the hunting I've done in Alcona County...you're way off base. 

But then, I wasn't hunting one of the private clubs there, like Lost Lake Woods, either. 

If the large number of mallards I'm seeing now, with all the open water we've got, stay all winter in the river systems, then I'd like to know where they are when we're running the trapline in February...we see a few, but no significant numbers. They go south. 

Branta-I think most of us know when the "historical" migrations have occurred over the years...but that hasn't been the case for the past few years. Is that an indicator of a changing climate? Who knows, but something has been very different up here for the past 5 years, at least. I guess we could wait another five years before we make changes to the duck season, to see if weather patterns return to normal, but I know a lot of unhappy duck hunters up here who will take off the camo and find something else to do in the meantime.


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## Rat Fink (Feb 20, 2001)

Linda G. said:


> Nice of you to make blanket assumptions about the hunting I've done in Alcona County...you're way off base.


Well I think it is rather nice of you to make blanket assumptions of how the Duck hunting in the NW Lower sucked this year. For example I put together a damn fine season. I scouted, I worked on gaining access to honey holes, and I worked on adapting my hunting style to be very versatile in regards to weather and when the birds were here. I shot alot of mallards, and had one of the best goose seasons I have ever had. I was covered up with birds the first 2 weekends of october before we closed. When we reopened I had some more very good shooting but most of my geese were gone. I didnt hunt here much of November because I was shooting ducks in Wyoming and chasing deer. When I came back and started hunting after thanksgiving I put together some great hunts on the big water and rarely heard any other shooting. I was happy to have those extra days in December. I like the way the season worked out and so do alot of the guys I know. It is very dissapointing to see you lump us all into one category- disgruntled duck hunters. For as hard as you are pushing to help yourself and your area I hope you and the CWAC take into consideration all of the people happy with the way they finally have the season set up. There is one thing I would change and that is having the late 2 day season again but not at the sacrifice of those good weeks in december.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

You always do everything better than everyone else, from what I read. LOL

and, from some past unknown indiscretion I committed against you that I can't even remember, it doesn't matter WHAT I say, you're against it. So I've come to simply ignore you most of the time, but that doesn't mean your word doesn't count. 

Why don't you come to the CWAC, too?

Nothing to stop you.

I will only be giving CWAC my personal thoughts, as well as DOCUMENTED thoughts of others-in other words, their names and addresses. All of those thoughts, in favor of this season as well as against. But I need more than just words on a message board, I need your name, address, and documented notes from the season as well. I have a number of those that have been pm'ed and emailed to me, I'll be happy to add anyone else's...but again, it must be documented to be credible.

and if you read ALL of the posts on suggestions for the Zone 2 season next year, I not only want those December weeks, too, I also thought we had a pretty good goose season.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Rat Fink said:


> Well I think it is rather nice of you to make blanket assumptions of how the Duck hunting in the NW Lower sucked this year. For example I put together a damn fine season. I scouted, I worked on gaining access to honey holes, and I worked on adapting my hunting style to be very versatile in regards to weather and when the birds were here. I shot alot of mallards, and had one of the best goose seasons I have ever had. I was covered up with birds the first 2 weekends of october before we closed. When we reopened I had some more very good shooting but most of my geese were gone. I didnt hunt here much of November because I was shooting ducks in Wyoming and chasing deer. When I came back and started hunting after thanksgiving I put together some great hunts on the big water and rarely heard any other shooting. I was happy to have those extra days in December. I like the way the season worked out and so do alot of the guys I know. It is very dissapointing to see you lump us all into one category- disgruntled duck hunters. For as hard as you are pushing to help yourself and your area I hope you and the CWAC take into consideration all of the people happy with the way they finally have the season set up. There is one thing I would change and that is having the late 2 day season again but not at the sacrifice of those good weeks in december.


nicely said. 

Linda i have been reading every possible forum since season ended and I have started and commented on this topic alot trying to get as much information as possible to help our CWAC rep pull for what the MAJORITY wants. You are the one of the few i have seen NOT like the seasons this year. This is why i tagged this thread the day you posted it. If I was a CWAC rep, I would be hard pressed to want a change in much of anything after reading the posts here. I understand that you miss the 2 day late season, about the only solution i see is eliminating the split you had this year, ending your season 2 weeks earlier w/ a 2 day split late season and I can guess that will upset 90% of your hunters from looking at the feedback i have seen here.

on side note: I would be all for a 3 day opener like indiana (i think thats who branta said had it). Theres a 2 week lull after opener anyways and to me this time is spent wasted swatting mosquito's. This would solve just about everyones problem if we could still garner the 2 day split at the end of the year.


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## Rat Fink (Feb 20, 2001)

Linda G. said:


> You always do everything better than everyone else, from what I read. LOL


No, Not the case at all. I just try a little harder than most of your crybaby constituents. I use the term constituents because you seem to be some type of a self appointed politician. You use your "status" as an outdoor writer to work towards your own personal gain and political goals. I live less than an hour away from you and all of these problems you have stated in this thread I and many others did not experience this year except for the trade off of the days in December for the late 2 day hunt. For some reason you keep going back to when you threatened to publicly print some of my favorite places to hunt just to spite me, because I jumped all over you about the 2 day hunt in the past. Thats exactly why I dont like you. I could give you my personal info via PM but I chose not to. I would rather handle making my thoughts known to the CWAC myself. And on that note I think in all fairness to everyone here maybe someone could post up either an e-mail address or a regular address to where concerned hunters can send their thoughts? I surely would appreciate it. Maybe it is time to face up to the fact that you just had a poor season Linda, and you might need to give this season framework a couple of years before you try to change it again? Do you really need everything handed to you on a silver platter like a little princess?


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## WallyJ (Feb 19, 2003)

Ouch!! 
What about the thought that maybe there just are not as many Ducks as in years past. 
Personally, I liked the seasons, wouldn't mind an earlier opener for zone 2 with a longer split.


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## TNL (Jan 6, 2005)

Alright you two, if I have to stop this car...:lol: 

Perhaps I'm niave to the ways of setting the Zone 2 duck season, but it seems like we could simply take 2 more days off at the beginning of the first split and add them for a late season. We would lose one weekend (10/8-9/2005) and gain another (12/31-1/1/2006). Same 60 days, just allocated differently. Plus, the Zone 2 folks could come to zone 3 for another opener. Again, maybe the math is too simple for me, but it seems like a plausable solution.

TNL


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## sprigdog (Jan 29, 2004)

Rat Fink said:


> I would rather handle making my thoughts known to the CWAC myself. And on that note I think in all fairness to everyone here maybe someone could post up either an e-mail address or a regular address to where concerned hunters can send their thoughts? I surely would appreciate it.


now that is the best thought on this entire thread.

Linda G. if no one on this thread that actually hunts zone 2 regularly (all 5-6 of us) is in agreement with your thought process, how can we be sure our Citizens Waterfowl Committee will be getting our responses? I have about 10 guys in zone 2 who loved these dates but they have better things to do than look at a computer. How can these people "bend the ear" of the CWAC?


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## sprigdog (Jan 29, 2004)

Linda G. said:


> You always do everything better than everyone else, from what I read. LOL
> .



must be some history between you 2, cause that aint right.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

TNL-thanks for trying to mediate. But I think your suggestion warrants two splits, if I understand it correctly, and we can only have one. 

Ok, let me see if I understand everyone correctly. Basically, everyone on this board was happy with Zone 2's season this year, but just about all of those same people, with the exception of one or two, would like to see a season that extends much further into December, if not all the way through. And very few of you were happy about losing the 2 day season. 

Ok... 


Rat, I don't know even know what you're talking about, and I would never publicly print someone's special hunting spot without their permission, much less threaten anyone about anything. Gimme a break-you've got a lot to learn about outdoor writers who have ethics. Your venom is frightening, really, especially in light of the fact that I can't even remember what you're talking about-you really hold a grudge over something that if I said anything like that at all, I was only yanking your chain, which obviously, is easy to do.


Folks, it was pretty sad to see this get personal about me. As I have said 
numerous times, I will offer my personal opinion about the Zone 2 season this year at CWAC, but I will offer it as just that, my opinion, which was formulated not just from my personal hunting experiences this year, but also from that of many other friends and people that I hunt with on a regular basis, who would laugh at the thought of asking folks on the Internet their thoughts about the season. I thought it was a good idea, to get the thoughts of others out there I don't know, but perhaps it wasn't. 

Again, I will also be offering up the opinions and thoughts of several dozen highly creditable people who have contacted me howling about this year's season, including a few who contacted me through PMs on this board, who have documented their seasons up here for several years. A couple of those people will be attending CWAC with me, as any of you are welcome to, as well. 

I posted this thread to offer everyone an opportunity to post their opinions on the season, with the intention of taking those opinions to CWAC. I ended up getting bashed and basically told I have no idea what I'm talking about, that I'm just a dumb female outdoor writer who's out for no one but herself, and everyone else knows more than I do. 

Ok...but I ask you this-where are your northern MI CWAC reps to ask your opinion? Did anyone else ask for your thoughts that would take them to CWAC? 

Guess that's what you get for trying...and people wonder why the sport of hunting is going down the drain.


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## sprigdog (Jan 29, 2004)

Linda G. said:


> Folks, it was pretty sad to see this get personal about me.


holy cow, first i heard about getting personal was when you laughed at RF for having a good season. I dont know RF, never talked to him, and when you posted that, i went WOW. You basically called the guy at minimum one hell of an exaggerater or at worst a liar. That is the way i read it.

I remember last year we had a disagreemnet about something and as soon as it got too hot for you, the Mod was called in to close the thread. I see this one being closed in about 27 minutes if not sooner.

Before it gets closed, please advise how the CWAC members can be contacted?
thanks


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