# North branch of the ausable issues



## brushbuster

I wonder if there was any fire suppressant sprayed near by that leeched into the aquafir. Grayling is having issues in the drinking water from fire suppressants.


----------



## brushbuster

3-4 monsters hiding under the bed that I would be concerned about in the headwaters would be the gas plant on old state rd next turtle creek. All the natural gas veins that run the whole length of head waters from Chubb lakes to lovells, Range 40 that catches on fire at least 3 times a summer for the last 20 years. I would hope they test the water above and below turtle creek. I doubt the lake owners have dumped anything in the water or there would be fish kills in the lakes. Not much residential area past twin bridge, alot of state land up river. The only thing i can think of would be the natural gas veins or the range, but the headwaters of the east branch run right smack through the range. There would be fish kills noticed on the east branch and river lake. Turtle creek really sticks out to me as A source. Doesn' mean that a lone individual couldn' have dumped something.


----------



## grouse25

Dan E. said:


> Where is this from?


Reputable source who wished to not have his name attached 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Shoeman

Here's what I don't get

Who did the shocking and why weren't these dismal numbers revealed by someone other than a "reputable source" that prefers to be kept unknown?

One would think that by now (since September of 2017) this would be National News, considering the popularity of the AuSable.

I smell something fishy!


----------



## Nostromo

Fake news?


----------



## MEL

Bummer, closest Trout water to my place in Gaylord. Hope they can find the answer.


----------



## flyrodder46

I don't think it is FAKE NEWS as two prominent fly shops have asked for info on this. Also from what I have heard there are not the fish in the NB that should be available to anglers.


----------



## Lamarsh

brushbuster said:


> I wonder if there was any fire suppressant sprayed near by that leeched into the aquafir. Grayling is having issues in the drinking water from fire suppressants.


Last fall, now that I think about it right around when everybody is saying there was the kill because it was in the end of September 2017, I had heard there was a bunch of toxic stuff (plumes of polyfluoroalkyl substances called PFAS) leaked at It think the army base. The folks in Grayling were warned about drinking water. Some were saying it shouldn't go as far to the groundwater very far east near the Au Sable, but was that really true? It seems this kind of stuff tends to get underplayed. Just wondering if there is a relation. What would push against this theory is all apparently being well on the main branch, and from the map I can't see how this would affect the north branch, but not sure. Article below.

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/09/grayling_pfas_expand_east.html


----------



## brushbuster

Lamarsh said:


> Last fall, now that I think about it right around when everybody is saying there was the kill because it was in the end of September 2017, I had heard there was a bunch of toxic stuff (plumes of polyfluoroalkyl substances called PFAS) leaked at It think the army base. The folks in Grayling were warned about drinking water. Some were saying it shouldn't go as far to the groundwater very far east near the Au Sable, but was that really true? It seems this kind of stuff tends to get underplayed. Just wondering if there is a relation. What would push against this theory is all apparently being well on the main branch, and from the map I can't see how this would affect the north branch, but not sure. Article below.
> 
> http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/09/grayling_pfas_expand_east.html


Yeah the county is providing water filters for twp residents. I doubt that it is leaching to the north branch from where they used it in the twp, but they use the same stuff to put out fires at range 40, which is only a mile from the NB. Im just throwing possibilities out there, but it does make me wonder.


----------



## Gamekeeper

How come you trout guys aren't asking the DNR to chime in here?

I wasn't aware that private citizens can go around shocking trout streams.


----------



## Shoeman

Gamekeeper said:


> How come you trout guys aren't asking the DNR to chime in here?
> 
> I wasn't aware that private citizens can go around shocking trout streams.


They can't! Perhaps a University study? 

Somebody shocked it and where are those numbers other than posted on here?

PFAS is also found in and around Oscoda, but the fish didn't disappear.


----------



## brushbuster

Gamekeeper said:


> How come you trout guys aren't asking the DNR to chime in here?
> 
> I wasn't aware that private citizens can go around shocking trout streams.


I don't think they can, I took it that tests were being conducted, not by private citizens.


----------



## Lamarsh

Gamekeeper said:


> How come you trout guys aren't asking the DNR to chime in here?
> 
> I wasn't aware that private citizens can go around shocking trout streams.


I was assuming the person who posted what appeared to be a screenshot of some conversation of somebody talking about shocking, that the shocking was done by the DNR and the person had some inside knowledge of it. Not sure though. I can't imagine private citizens going around shocking trout streams either, and nor do I think that happened here.


----------



## UPaquariest

This is a quote from a portion of the 5/30 Gate's fishing report

"A number of people have expressed concern about the health of the North Branch. A recent DNR survey revealed a pretty significant decrease in 6-15″ trout in two small sample areas."

I am not sure where on the DNR website to find the locations or reports from shocking surveys.


----------



## kzoofisher

The DNR isn’t ready to release their findings yet, they want to complete the study without reporting possibly misleading numbers. The info originally posted was probably too much detail and the less specific info from the fly shops is ok with the DNR. It’s too soon to make anything but wild guesses (me too) and maybe we should be patient. The kill was last year and the damage done, finding the culprit is the goal now. 

Btw, the PFAS is in the mainstream and Margrethe which is in the Manistee watershed. Nothing reported in the East Branch so far. 

https://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/threads/new-consumption-advisories-due-to-pfas.617114/


----------



## Gamekeeper

So, one of you ought to make the 3 phone calls necessary to confirm the actual facts and post attributable quotes here. 

Don't promote unfounded rumor on public websites.


----------



## Boardman Brookies

Gamekeeper said:


> So, one of you ought to make the 3 phone calls necessary to confirm the actual facts and post attributable quotes here.
> 
> Don't promote unfounded rumor on public websites.


You got a phone? Go for it!


----------



## Waif

Still curious about the otter population. They do not practice catch and release...
Brown trout are known to eat small trout too.
Depends on what browns are in there I guess. (Note consumption rates from the old study mentioned.)

Excerpt from : https://quod.lib.umich.edu/f/fishery/AAG2862.1855.001?rgn=main;view=fulltext

MICHIGAN DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES FISHERIES DIVISION Fisheries Research Report No. 1855 December 8, 1977 CONSUMPTION OF SMALL TROUT BY LARGE PREDATORY BROWN TROUT IN THE NORTH BRANCH OF THE AU SABLE RIVER, MICHIGAN'/ By Gaylord R. Alexander Abstract Stomachs of large wild brown trout collected from the North Branch of the Au Sable were analyzed for foods eaten. High proportions of fish, particularly brook trout were found. Working from the partially digested remains of the prey trout, the daily ration of predator brown trout was determined. Also estimates of the total daily ration and the proportion of coarse fish in the ration were made. Using the estimated daily rations of prey trout along with knowledge of the magnitude of the predator trout stocks, the number of prey trout by age class consumed per mile of river was calculated. The predator brown trout kill of small trout was 7, 626 fish per mile of river in the normal angling regulation water (7. 0-inch minimum size, any lure, 10 trout creel limit) and 3, 579 fish per mile in the special angling regulation water (9. 0-inch minimum size, flies-only, 5 trout creel limit). Kills of small brown trout were relatively low in both the normal and special regulation waters and amounted to only 217 and 218 fish per mile for the respective waters. Brown trout are the most significant natural predator yet identified on the Au Sable in terms of total trout killed. However, because the brown trout eat only small trout they are not in direct competition with anglers, as are the American Merganser, Great Blue Heron, mink, and otter which kill more large trout. Brown trout predation is probably detrimental to brook trout populations where brook trout fisheries are the primary management objective. However, brown trout predation is probably beneficial in controlling slow growth in high population densities of small trout. Further, if older brown trout lacked smaller trout as prey they would grow slower and fewer large "trophy" size fish would be produced. Also, the predation of the brown trout on coarse fish populations is beneficial to all trout. Many of the trout spared from the anglers' hooking mortality and not caught due to special regulations, are subsequently eaten by natural predators. However, in the normal regulation waters the kill of trout by natural predators is also high. v Contribution from Dingell-Johnson Project F-35-R, Michigan.


----------



## Lamarsh

Waif said:


> American Merganser


Lol, always fun to blame mergs! Been seeing more and more common mergs on all parts of the au sable, them and their little merglings. Must have seen a dozen adults this past weekend drifting from wakely to mcmasters, and I'm guessing each of them had clutches of little merglings hiding in the tag alders eating fingerlings and learning how to eat tons of fish from mom and dad.

Maybe this fall when I make my duck hunting decisions, even though hunting the river has never been close to the top of my list, I'll have to set up on the au sable just to try to do some merg control :evilsmile. I won't eat them, but my lab enjoys them as a shore lunch.


----------



## Shoeman

I’ve only fished it once about 2 years back after some serious rainfall. We didn’t do squat, nor did anyone else we talked to. But after milling around with some of you local cats, Dam 4 was a given.

So where did they go? Floaters? No mention of those downstream. Unlike the Muskegon disaster back in the mid 90’s. Everything died due to a malfunction


----------

