# Muzzleloader bullet trajectory question



## jayzbird

Missed a pretty decent buck tonight. Wondering if anyone can fill me in on some trajectory numbers? I am shooting a TC Encore with 100 grains of BH209 behind a 250 gr. shockwave. I have the gun zeroed at 100 yards. I missed him at roughly 170-175 yards(forgot the rangefinder at home). It was a clean miss and I am guessing low. I don't have access to a range further than 100 yards. I set the crosshairs on the top of his back. Also, does anyone know of a public range around the Genesee or Lapeer county area that has a range further than 100 yards? Any help is greatly appreciated!


----------



## fish_AK

here is a chart for powerbelt 245gr wit 100gr powder. powerbelt have a much lower BC. the shock waves shoot much flatter than this. Holding at his back "in theroy" should have done the trick. I would confirm you zero, then develope some data for each range. also if you had your ML loaded for a while the powder could have been a bit damp(big velocity loss). 

Range------- Velocity----- Drop------ Energy 
0 ------------1823 -------- 0 0-------- 1808 
25----------- 1690 ---------0.52------- 1554 
50----------- 1571--------- 1.28 -------1343 
75----------- 1460 ---------1.1 --------1160 
100---------- 1359 ----------0--------- 1005 
125 ----------1268 ---------2.33 -------875 
150---------- 1189 ---------6.02------- 769 
175 ----------1124 --------11.24 ------- 687 
200---------- 1070 --------18.19 --------623 
225---------- 1026 --------27.03 --------573 
250----------- 988 --------37.94---------531


----------



## hando

I would agree in theory your elevation hold should have been good but may have missed on windage. I have an Encore and an Omega shooting shockwaves and almost identical powder charge that we have played with from the bench at range in the winds like we've had over the last few days, and you'd be suprised how much drift you'll see. Our experience in approx 15mph winds at 150yds was a liver/gut hold and land right up in the sholder, just something to consider


----------



## tacklebox

I have been shooting an encore 209x50 for years with no problems.The only difference i see is,that i use 150 grains of powder which obviously increases the kick,but let me tell ya,there r no worries of drifting and top of back at 200 yds=dead deer.....just my 2 cents worth.


----------



## Mitchell Ulrich

...."Any help is greatly appreciated!"...... 




One shot, one kill.

Know yourself, know your weapon and know the limitations of both.

Never take a shot your not confident with.


Best advice I can give you.

Mitch


----------



## GuppyII

I would agree you shooting at its feet. I have shot he 250 and 200 sst's with 110-120 volume(75-85gn weight) quite a bit this past year. Both bullets 2 1/2 to 3 inches high at 100 yds. puts it dead on at 150- 165. Even zeroed there, it is still 6-8 inches low at 200, and 18 or so at 250. If you can't shoot your gun over 100 yds at the range you shouldnt be trying for a deer that far away. Try going to a farm or in the woods where you hunt and shoot these ranges with your gun, as every ones gun will shoot a little different. Get confident at long distance. You owe the animal that. And not only that shooting is just fun. Better luck next time.


----------



## ENCORE

IF, you go back to the same spot hunting again, I'm sure you'll remember where that buck was standing and check the range.
Unless you've ranged objects where you were hunting before and, know FOR SURE what the range was, you could have very well misjudged by quite alot.
Range estimation for just about everyone is extremely hard to establish once you get out past 100/150yds.

Now, get out there and get him next time


----------



## jayzbird

ENCORE said:


> IF, you go back to the same spot hunting again, I'm sure you'll remember where that buck was standing and check the range.
> Unless you've ranged objects where you were hunting before and, know FOR SURE what the range was, you could have very well misjudged by quite alot.
> Range estimation for just about everyone is extremely hard to establish once you get out past 100/150yds.
> 
> Now, get out there and get him next time


I actually have ranged the spot where he stood numerous times because I always see deer come out of a bedding area there. I've looked at other trajectory tables with Encores shooting the same load but with Triple Seven as a propellant (there isn't much out there on BH209 I think because it's still kinda new). From what I have heard and read, BH209 and Triple7 have pretty close to the same velocities using the same loads. I actually shot a doe this year in EAS using the same gun and load at 140 yards (ranged with rangefinder). And dropped her where she stood. It may sound like I was just throwin some lead at him, but that is far from the case. I am an ethical hunter and wouldn't have taken the shot if I wasn't confident I could kill him. I spend alot of money for very good equipment, I'm not trying to shoot a $100 import in-line or a side lock 200 yards. I bought what I think is the best muzzleloader on the market today that is capable of shooting 200 yards accurately. Even though I don't have a range further than 100 yards to shoot, I practice quite a bit with all of my firearms and bows. I was seeing if anybody had info on actual BH209 loads out there. Since there wasn't really any wind last night I can't blame it on bullet drift either. I checked the gun this morning and she's spot on. Guess it was just buck fever..... :lol: Oh well maybe next time right? I was just lookin at the wall in the house yesterday where my 14th mount could have went...


----------



## jayzbird

After some poking around today on the internet I found a great ballistic calculator at www.handloads.com/calc/. All you have to have is your bullets ballistic coefficient and the velocity at the muzzle and it'll figure everything out for you. After putting in my info I should have sighted in for 150 yards. I had it sighted in for 100 but I'm going back to the range and zeroing t for 150 like GuppyII had suggested (thanks!) and it's basically point and shoot to 175 yards. Sighted for 150 it's 3" high at 100 and 3" low at 175. At 200 it's 7" low, probably the farthest I want to shoot. So if I would have sighted it in at 150 I probably wouldn't have missed last Saturday. Thanks for all the advice gentlemen!


----------



## william wallace

Jayzbird, 

This was a question I had a few posts back and got some flack on it. The way you have it sighted at 3" @ 100yds works great for me. I use a T/C Omega 250gr Shock Waves, two 50gr 777 pellets and Remmington 209 primers. Leaves little to no burn ring. I hunted in Washington state for mule deer a lot with tons of open country. This allowed me to basically hold where I wanted to shoot out to 150 then adjust if it was at 200 I aimed just below the high shoulder. Never missed a deer or elk. All I had to do was adjust for wind and in the open hills, I had a lot of wind at times. I would shoot in any weather just so I knew what my gun would do. I think this will go in the right dirertion for you. Like to see pic of your next deer. 

William


----------



## Asian Archer

Hey Jayzbird

Yeah if you sight in at 100 yards at 2.5-3inches high then you should be right on at 150 and Aproximately 7-9 inches low at 200 yards if you hold right on. I use the same set up except I use 250 grain Barnes Spitfire TEZ's which have a better BC than the Shockwaves. I can send you the exact ballistics for your load if you want them. Because I did the research on the BH powder this year already. Well, Good luck hold at the top of the back next time and you will smash those deer!! I shot one at 170 this year and had a perfect double lung pass through.


----------



## grafik0117

I found a chart describing bullet drop between 100 and 200 yards compiled by Toby Bridges. He took nearly 600 shots with 20 different bullets using 100 grains of 777 FFFg. Here is the link: 
www.hpmuzzleloading.com/Technical.html 

In summary, he ranks them by drop as follows:
5.25" - 195-gr. PR .357 Dead Center
6.90" - 260-gr. PR .400 Dead Center
7.30" - 240-gr. PR .400 Dead Center
7.40" - 260-gr. PR .400 Extreme Elite HP
7.50" - 300-gr. PR .430 Dead Center
7.90" - 240-gr. PR .400 Extreme Elite HP
8.85" - 340-gr. PR .451 Dead Center
9.70" - 250-gr. Parker .451 Ballistic Extreme
9.90" - 250-gr. Barnes .451 TMZ
10.8" - 250-gr. Hornady .452 SST
11.2" - 275-gr. Parker .451 Ballistic Extreme
11.5" - 290-gr. Barnes .451 TMZ
11.8" - 245-gr. Barnes .451 Spit-Fire
12.3" - 300-gr. Hornady .452 SST
12.9" - 285-gr. Barnes .451 Spit-Fire
13.8" - 295-gr. Power Belt .499
14.9" - 223-gr. Power Belt .499
15.9" - 260-gr. Harvester Muzzleloading .451 Scorpion Hollow Point
18.7" - 250-gr. Hornady .452 XTP Hollow Point
21.2" - 300-gr. Hornady .452 XTP Hollow Point

I found the PR Dead Center and Extreme Elite HP bullets here:
http://www.muzzleloadingbullets.com/


----------



## hunt-n-fool

here is what I think, you shouldnt shoot a shot you havent practiced !

You guessed the range, you guessed it was low, but you dont know either !

having others guess for you is going to be just as much benefit as the initial guessing.

I am just happy you didnt wound the animal.


----------

