# No bait, but longer gun season



## poz (Nov 12, 2004)

Just saw this, thoughts? 

https://www.wzzm13.com/article/news...higan/69-9e522f8a-5d46-406a-82e8-24ace35809dc


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## MIhunt (Dec 18, 2011)

Personally I don’t like the change. There’s plenty of opportunity to hunt outside of the regular firearm season, and I think expanding it would do little to nothing to increase hunter numbers.


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## Fool'em (Sep 29, 2016)

Should start deer season on sept 15 and end Jan 1 in Up and Northern lower feb 1 in southern. Use whatever weapon you want. But only one buck and as many does the biologists determine need to be taken to manage population.
Add a mandatory online or phone validation within 24 hours also.


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## Hillsdales Most Wanted (Jul 17, 2015)

very simple do what I did, buy a crossbow


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

Gotta wonder why so many want no deer around .Must be they have lots and do not care about anyone else .Typical in today's world .


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## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

Foolish attempt to distract from ALL the issues with NRC/DNR. Does nothing to correct or curb the abuse of power. Does nothing to stop the influence special interest groups have had on our regulations. It will do nothing to curb attrition do to the banning of bait, hunters choice and MAPR that are restrictions that are the reasons for attrition. It may even increase attrition just as trying to move opener, has done in the past, with disapproval by hunters.

If Gretchen does not sign the bill, it may just be the nail in the coffin for her political career. She will lose both Democrats and Republicans loss of jobs and wages, loss of economic growth affects both parties and all households.


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## HookedUp (Dec 31, 2010)

No bait, one buck tag, end bow season around November 5ish open firearms season just after Thanksgiving. Do away with all the "special" early season hunts. Everyone should have the same opportunity to hunt and not be limited because of age or there line of work they chose to do. How is that not discrimination?


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## Hillsdales Most Wanted (Jul 17, 2015)

Id much rather have baiting legal and gun start on Nov 15th. 

Great job NRC:banghead3


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## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

Hillsdales Most Wanted said:


> Id much rather have baiting legal and gun start on Nov 15th.
> 
> Great job NRC:banghead3


Just a guess but the drast reduction in license sales and revenue suggest your not alone in your thinking.


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## bowhunter426 (Oct 20, 2010)

Fool'em said:


> Should start deer season on sept 15 and end Jan 1 in Up and Northern lower feb 1 in southern. Use whatever weapon you want. But only one buck and as many does the biologists determine need to be taken to manage population.
> Add a mandatory online or phone validation within 24 hours also.


Biologist have determined that several counties need about 1 Million does taken out. I was worried that 070 was going to be sold out.


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## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

No data but previously license sales were down 23%. It has been a long time since Michigan had 700,000 deer hunters, they may have added all hunting in this article. Even so this will have to be adjusted with this years data/loss.
https://mucc.org/about-us/economic-impact-study-2019/
Please remember MUCC they were and are for banning bait, even in outside CWD zones. Just wonder if their membership will have a similar reduction when it comes time for membership renewal?


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Hillsdales Most Wanted said:


> Id much rather have baiting legal and gun start on Nov 15th.
> 
> Great job NRC:banghead3


Not the NRC proposing this. It is another legislator that has no clue what he is doing trying to interject himself into a debated issue. Just like the one who wrote the bill to bring back baiting.


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## Hillsdales Most Wanted (Jul 17, 2015)

DirtySteve said:


> Not the NRC proposing this. It is another legislator that has no clue what he is doing trying to interject himself into a debated issue. Just like the one who wrote the bill to bring back baiting.


This nov 5th bill is due to bait ban, which i believe the nrc had something to do with that. Could be wrong?


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## Whitetail Freak (Nov 10, 2008)

45 days is long enough for me. If your season isnt 45 days, it will be soon.


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)

That's the last thing we need is a longer gun season. Muzzleloading has basically become a modern rifle season already.


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## Whitetail Freak (Nov 10, 2008)

stickbow shooter said:


> That's the last thing we need is a longer gun season. Muzzleloading has basically become a modern rifle season already.


Pretty sad no muzzle season down here anymore, just gun season till January. Kill anything you want, now they want to add baiting to make it easier to killem all!


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## fishx65 (Aug 24, 2005)

Apparently "Hunter recruitment" is still the smart phrase to use when trying to get new laws passed. APRs, Baiting, crossbows in the archery seasons, youth hunts and now longer rifle season. Unfortunately, none of them are really helping with Michigan's declining hunter numbers.


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## sniper (Sep 2, 2005)

No no no no! They can’t get enough support to open gun season on a weekend so how is this gonna fly? Leave as is. My hunting is great. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


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## bansheejoel (Oct 15, 2009)

I say we start deer season January 1st and it goes till December 31st. Any weapon, bait, and can use artificial light. (Joke). This is seriously getting ridiculous.......


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## bignuge (Mar 15, 2009)

What is the logic behind this? I see zero reasoning besides that he would like to gun hunt 11 days earlier than he does now! Ridiculous


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## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

fishx65 said:


> Yup, looks like our legislators are already jumping in to take over for the DNR/NRC after seeing that Michigan's hunters want them making decisions for them. Just a matter of time before our non/anti hunting legislators see and act on this opportunity. At least some of us might get to wait over bait piles for another year or two.


The blame falls squarely on NRC and DNR for following special interest groups agenda's, and not following scientific data. Closed door meetings, not following CWD response plans, etc., etc. has discredit both and forced the issue your post describes. What you also fail to realize is this do process has and always will be available.


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## poz (Nov 12, 2004)

retired dundo said:


> Before you know it one of those Idiots will want a spring season


They had that in th TB zone a few years back


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## Hillsdales Most Wanted (Jul 17, 2015)

Gone_Hunting said:


> What gun are you using that shoots 400fps? I shoot the same distances as people with compounds, possibly less. I'm not taking a 100+ yard shot with a crossbow, cross gun or whatever you want to call it. Also, I know i havent got my hearing checked in a while but my crossgun does not ring my ears like my 30 06. How are they even close to the same?


Im just having fun, but i shoot Centerpoint Gladiator 405fps. Very impressed with todays xbow technology. If a gun hunter wants more time in the field, hey xbows are great


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## Gone_Hunting (Sep 22, 2013)

Hillsdales Most Wanted said:


> Im just having fun, but i shoot Centerpoint Gladiator 405fps. Very impressed with todays xbow technology. If a gun hunter wants more time in the field, hey xbows are great


I figured you were going to hit me with the scope! Lol


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

Hillsdales Most Wanted said:


> very simple do what I did, buy a crossbow





stickbow shooter said:


> That's the last thing we need is a longer gun season. Muzzleloading has basically become a modern rifle season already.


It's getting hard to justify separate seasons with equipment at the level it is now. I wouldn't see a problem with combining the seasons and maybe having an earlier primitive weapon hunt where traditional archery and primitive muzzle loaders are used. Maybe using the October first to November 4th slot? Then hunters choice until January 3rd? But as others have said. It should go along with a one buck only provision. Or perhaps a second buck tag that specify which DMU?



Martian said:


> also, i am a bit of a traditionalist. I think in mi. nov. 15. is ,like Dec. 25, can't change it


That's a huge sticking point with some. Maybe if the pressure is spread out a little they will be able to go to their traditional camps on the 15th and things will be fine.



retired dundo said:


> Before you know it one of those Idiots will want a spring season


Now that's an idea. Catch them just as they are crawling out of the depleted yards. lol


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## Zkovach1175 (Mar 29, 2017)

i Always watch the kids and when my wife comes home I run out to the blind. Once time changes it’s nearly impossible to get out in the daylight. Getting rid of daylight savings time would help me a lot. I’d be OK with trying a nov 5th opener. Maybe do every other year. Test it one year and see the results.


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## MossyHorns (Apr 14, 2011)

Zkovach1175 said:


> i Always watch the kids and when my wife comes home I run out to the blind. Once time changes it’s nearly impossible to get out in the daylight. Getting rid of daylight savings time would help me a lot. I’d be OK with trying a nov 5th opener. Maybe do every other year. Test it one year and see the results.


You mean stay on daylight savings time. There is talk about staying on DST year round.


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## fishx65 (Aug 24, 2005)

Hunters Edge said:


> The blame falls squarely on NRC and DNR for following special interest groups agenda's, and not following scientific data. Closed door meetings, not following CWD response plans, etc., etc. has discredit both and forced the issue your post describes. What you also fail to realize is this do process has and always will be available.


I'm starting to understand it now. I didn't realize that Proposal G really meant nothing. I blindly believed that G would keep Non/Anti hunting Legislators from being able to decide our game laws. I new I wasn't going to agree with everything the DNR/NRC would do but I figured it was better then the alternative.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Let’s just be done with different weapon seasons in DMUs with CWD or bTB. Call it deer season and use your weapon of choice. It’s not like you get more than two buck tags unless you are the kind of hunter who shoots button bucks out of spite. 

A better option is to keep politicians out of hunting regulations.


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## Lumberman (Sep 27, 2010)

If no bait and a longer gun season was an option I would take it. 

No bait for my camp and I “being public hand hunters” makes the hunting so much better then with bait I would be willing to accept almost anything.


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## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

fishx65 said:


> I'm starting to understand it now. I didn't realize that Proposal G really meant nothing. I blindly believed that G would keep Non/Anti hunting Legislators from being able to decide our game laws. I new I wasn't going to agree with everything the DNR/NRC would do but I figured it was better then the alternative.


It obviously does not mean anything to the DNR or NRC, otherwise legislation would not have been needed!!! I hope that's the point your making. If you are inferring it was for not agreeing, I think you are either short sighted or sadly mistaken. Or you possibly belonging to those special interest groups, or agreeing with their agenda.


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## DanSS26 (Jul 10, 2008)

No, no, no! If anything move opening day to the Saturday after Thanksgiving. Got to December 15th. Let the bow hunters have the rut.


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## Nostromo (Feb 14, 2012)

DanSS26 said:


> Let the bow hunters have the rut.


Or we could give them the early spring hunt.








Even they should be able to get a buck then. lol


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## noshow (Sep 24, 2010)

They move opening day to November 5th then I would probably quit myself. I cant stand rifle season and never did. All the relaxation and non pressured hunting comes to a screeching halt. Brings out the clowns already. We don't need more of them. And how about opening it right in the middle of breeding. What a joke.


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## langkg (Oct 26, 2004)

Gone_Hunting said:


> What gun are you using that shoots 400fps? I shoot the same distances as people with compounds, possibly less. I'm not taking a 100+ yard shot with a crossbow, cross gun or whatever you want to call it. Also, I know i havent got my hearing checked in a while but my crossgun does not ring my ears like my 30 06. How are they even close to the same?


Point and click without drawing. Just like a gun.


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## gatorman841 (Mar 4, 2010)

Lots of people complain about gun season, save every penny you get and buy some private land problem solved.


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## Namrock (Apr 12, 2016)

Nostromo said:


> Or we could give them the early spring hunt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah cause bowhunters suck at killing deer. Especially bucks.


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## Ac338 (Jan 18, 2019)

I don't see how extending rifle season will help to recruit or retain hunters. The only way I see the DNR being able to increase hunter numbers is if every license sold comes with a personal helper to walk out a deer on a leash on opening morning and tie it to a tree 10 yards in front of a heated blind equipped with USB receptacles and a latte machine(not Busch Lattes "like the vanilla kind"). There are to many other activities out there that provide instant gratification with very little work or suffering that getting people to go out in the cold dark woods just to maybe shoot a deer is getting harder. Even people at work who are my age(29) still say it takes to much work or it's to hard, a lot of people are lazy. I strictly bow hunt so maybe I'm being biased but I dont see an earlier rifle hunt fixing anything. I only hunt public in NELP and have never and will never bait, but don't have a problem with the whole baiting thing, but Nov 5th rifle seems a little much if you truly wanted to hunt longer then you would take the time to learn to bowhunt or pick up a muzzleloader. If you truly want to increase hunter numbers then get your kid to put down their tablet or phone and take them hunting with you instead of lobbying for a longer rifle season for yourself. My 4 year old daughter bundled up to help me track my Nov 3 buck this year and now every time I hunt she is full of questions and interest. It's our job as parents to increase hunter numbers by including our kids and loved ones in our hunts, not by crying for a longer season because we can't use bait now.


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## miruss (Apr 18, 2003)

Luv2hunteup said:


> A better option is to keep politicians out of hunting regulations.


They are just using that SOCIAL SCIENCE so many on here was glad to be used when things were going their way!!


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## Skibum (Oct 3, 2000)

Terrible idea. The rut is disrupted as it is with an 11/15 opener. We have over 3 months to hunt deer in Michigan now. How many hunters get out more than a couple days during firearm season? Bow hunting is as much an economic driver as firearm any more. Changing the season would make no sense. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

HookedUp said:


> Youth Hunt would be age. Veteran/Liberty/Independence hunt or whatever they call it would be line of work someone has chosen. If this was for people who were drafted only, I would be all for it.


Feel free to host a disabled Veteran. Or A disabled hunter.
Disability varies of course. But get around enough disabled hunters and a disabled hunt makes more sense.
Currently , the timing of hunt is good from the perspective of those who can not feel an extremity or extremities that are cold. Circulation can be a factor too.
A friend got burned from a heating device trying to keep non feeling extremities warm
It may seem strange , but how do you know if something is too cold when you can't feel it?

Setting up , getting to and fro , can require help.
Understand , most disabled want to do all they can themselves.
But that there are things help is welcomed with. Deer recoveries ,and events from recovery to freezer.
There are some hunters willing to put their hunts aside during regular season to assist.
But now we're back to (often) cold conditions again. And , how many assistants are willing during regular season.

A Veteran who wants to hunt , should be hunting. If anyone in this state is getting out/allowed to hunt it should be a disabled Veteran who hunted prior. (No, I'm not a Vet..)

When we can ensure that help(as/when needed) exists , we can revisit when they hunt.
Then assure conditions are tolerable for those with temp sensitive conditions.
Till then , we're doing alright. It's only a window of opportunity. Not much of a hat tip , but welcome them back to , or to; hunting.


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## miruss (Apr 18, 2003)

QDMAMAN said:


> 2) Although there is data to support older bucks having higher prevalence rates than does, older does widely out number older bucks. You do the math.


So older bucks are more then likely to have CWD at a larger rate then older does which also happen to out number them ! So the solution is to have more older bucks ?


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## miruss (Apr 18, 2003)

Hillsdales Most Wanted said:


> Im telling ya, go buy a 400+fps crossbow and start gun hunting oct 1st!!!


No need for that if we just move gun opener to first week of nov. why should bow hunters get all the fun at bucks in rut!!


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## Hillsdales Most Wanted (Jul 17, 2015)

miruss said:


> No need for that if we just move gun opener to first week of nov. why should bow hunters get all the fun at bucks in rut!!


Ummm... rut is happening as we type.


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## John Hine (Mar 31, 2019)

T


HookedUp said:


> Youth Hunt would be age. Veteran/Liberty/Independence hunt or whatever they call it would be line of work someone has chosen. If this was for people who were drafted only, I would be all for it.


Thats cold man, really!


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## Hillsdales Most Wanted (Jul 17, 2015)

miruss said:


> No need for that if we just move gun opener to first week of nov. why should bow hunters get all the fun at bucks in rut!!


Bow hunters shouldnt hog all the bucks during the rut, thats why xbows were invented.


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## HUBBHUNTER (Aug 8, 2007)

miruss said:


> No need for that if we just move gun opener to first week of nov. why should bow hunters get all the fun at bucks in rut!!


The rut doesn't end of the 15th and I'm a gun hunter but there is no debate that gun hunting stops the good hunting. Deer go nocturnal on the 15th just as the would any other day you open the season. 

So go a head and start it earlier it won't give gun only guys any more of a chance at seeing deer.


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## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

Joe Archer said:


> I know that yearling dispersal is a major factor in the spread of disease.
> We know this.
> To bad hunters couldn't reduce herd numbers without protecting yearling bucks.
> So it is what it is....
> <----<<<


It is not a cure all but if crop damage permits and dmap permits would change on the selective process will help. The permits should not be directed to antlerless but specifically fawns and bucks.

Does remaining will keep other family groups hierarchy out of the fields and remove and reduce buck dispersal. The doe dispersal is done in the spring and doe dispersal will be reduced. Doe dispersal is in the spring not fall, looking for areas to give birth. If you shoot the doe you increase dispersal of does, opening areas up for young does, to move into. (Wayne Sitton's study)

Buck dispersal happens in the fall with does pushing young bucks out. On the reverse side doe dispersal is in the spring. The only thing to keep in mind only 13% of does will disperse. Not only a higher percentage of bucks disperse the range bucks disperse is much further. Both of these scenarios point that bucks are the prime reason for spreading a disease. Even before adding that bucks are more prevalent to have the disease.

It doesn't matter if there are more does. Very few 13% disperse, and when they do it is not as far as bucks. Which means the threat to expand the disease is far greater with bucks. Thus the reason they should be targeted higher than does to minimize the spread.

Reading this keep in mind does need to be harvested to reduce and manage populations. Just to think that they should not be targeted with crop or DMAP permits. Targeting does in these circumstances increases buck and doe dispersal.

https://www.bowhunting.com/blog/2017/07/03/deer-dispersal-bucks-vs/amp/

In any case whether crop or dmap permits change or not, logic dictates bucks are the main reason for it's spread. Thus the reason all emphasis should be directed there, not letting them get a free pass, in a CWD disease zone.


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## Joe Archer (Mar 29, 2000)

Hunters Edge said:


> It is not a cure all but if crop damage permits and dmap permits would change on the selective process will help. The permits should not be directed to antlerless but specifically fawns and bucks.
> 
> Does remaining will keep other family groups hierarchy out of the fields and remove and reduce buck dispersal. The doe dispersal is done in the spring and doe dispersal will be reduced. Doe dispersal is in the spring not fall, looking for areas to give birth. If you shoot the doe you increase dispersal of does, opening areas up for young does, to move into. (Wayne Sitton's study)
> 
> ...


I would add kill bucks to promote disease *containment*. Kill doe to limit disease *prevalence*.
<----<<<


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## Hunters Edge (May 15, 2009)

Joe Archer said:


> I would add kill bucks to promote disease *containment*. Kill doe to limit disease *prevalence*.
> <----<<<


You could say that. Then again even less density it still exists. Which allows the disease to spread. There is no means yet to eradicate the disease. So the main issue is to stop or slow it's spread. To do that bucks need to be the targeted of choice regardless of antler size. Fawns because this is essential as well to stop the spread, many are bucks. These two need to be targeted to reduce spread.

Also hate to say it but both baiting and feeding within the CWD areas need to exist as well. Baiting to help with harvest and hunter retention which will help harvest. More importantly to keep deer in and not wanting to leave or range. Point it has been said many times baiting/feeding congregate deer. Also what has been said baiting pulls deer off other areas. If this is true, than use it to contain the disease. You can not have it both ways and the only way to handle this disease is to contain it, or reduce and slow it's spread.

Both baiting and feeding contained bTB for decades. Why not use this along with targeting fawns and bucks. Even if you pulled in deer from non CWD areas you are containing it from spreading outside of the CWD area. I would much rather let the prevalence escalate inside the designated area than allow it to consume a larger demographic area, or spread to neighboring counties.


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## poz (Nov 12, 2004)

QDMAMAN said:


> 1) Pro _managemen_t groups.
> 2) Although there is data to support older bucks having higher prevalence rates than does, older does widely out number older bucks. You do the math.
> 3) Can you point me in the direction where TDM has contained disease? Seems it's establishment and spread has taken place under TDM.
> 4) The experiment in the CWD zone and the one proposed in the btb zone were both MDNR initiated.
> 5) see #4


So let me get this straight, there are more older does than bucks. I agree, than why would QDMA manage land that is designed to hold more deer. As a former qdma guy on here said, he and his buddies saw 60 different does opening day on his, i think it was, 160 acres. This is in an area that the dnr says has about 30 dpsm.. so his land was attracting a ton of does. Now if you are so concerned about does because there are more older does than bucks spreading the disease why would you want people to manage land that would ultimately being more older does together.


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## Trophy Specialist (Nov 30, 2001)

Stupid bill. Will result in a greatly increased buck kill and much worse buck to doe ratios, poorer buck age structure and a reduction of other hunting seasons.


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## hplayer13 (Nov 3, 2008)

What are WE as hunters who disagree going or can do about this? Not into politics but we have to stand up to this nonsense our state is already terrible enough for whitetail hunting


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## Justin (Feb 21, 2005)

jiggin is livin said:


> I honestly don't get wanting to change things all the time.
> 
> Just leave schitt alone! This is Michigan, not any other state for any other reason. Love it or hate it, doesn't matter. We have the best hunting traditions in the country, leave it alone.
> 
> ...


You are dead on here! This is making quitting my lifelong favorite thing easier to think about. I always thought that I would hunt deer as long as I could walk but these ever-changing regulations and attitudes of today's "hunter" are really having a negative effect on not only mine but family and friends in the same age range. Deer hunting today is nothing like the deer hunting I fell in love with many years ago. Maybe we could get a forum for hunters over 55.


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## Joel/AK (Jan 12, 2013)

hplayer13 said:


> What are WE as hunters who disagree going or can do about this? Not into politics but we have to stand up to this nonsense our state is already terrible enough for whitetail hunting


Hope I'm wrong but more than likely nothing will be done. It's just like anything, nobody can agree. 

In my case some things I can live with like no baiting, I believe muzzle loader season should be for muzzle loader. Unfortunately, because of the new rules, atleast in the CWD areas some hunters will complain. That's there choice.

Divided we fall and I'm sure I'm probably part of the problem also


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## hplayer13 (Nov 3, 2008)

Joel/AK said:


> Hope I'm wrong but more than likely nothing will be done. It's just like anything, nobody can agree.
> 
> In my case some things I can live with like no baiting, I believe muzzle loader season should be for muzzle loader. Unfortunately, because of the new rules, atleast in the CWD areas some hunters will complain. That's there choice.
> 
> Divided we fall and I'm sure I'm probably part of the problem also


I can’t accept that, they are going to ruin the thing I love most in this life besides God and my family... who in here knows who in the government we need to contact to complain and urge against this???


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

I prefer to bow hunt the 5th thru the 14th but the change would increase opportunities for hunters as a whole.


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## hplayer13 (Nov 3, 2008)

plugger said:


> I prefer to bow hunt the 5th thru the 14th but the change would increase opportunities for hunters as a whole.


Let’s just put gun season October 1-January 1 that would really increase hunter opportunities ya know!!!!


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## stickbow shooter (Dec 19, 2010)




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## Dish7 (Apr 2, 2017)

plugger said:


> I prefer to bow hunt the 5th thru the 14th but the change would increase opportunities for hunters as a whole.


How so?


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## bansheejoel (Oct 15, 2009)

jiggin is livin said:


> Yup!
> 
> The antler worshippers started the decline of Michigan hunting. We've had the greatest deer camp/season traditions in the country for a reason. Great hunting for decades......
> 
> ...


Great hunting for spikes maybe..........


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## johnhunter247 (Mar 12, 2011)

DecoySlayer said:


> That law restored the Nov 15th opening day. They tried Saturday openers and then returned to the 15th.


I did not know that. I’m surprised they changed it back. I would think working class people would appreciate a weekend opener. Especially ones with families that can’t use there vacation time for themselves. I could care less either way when gun season starts. But I would think weekend openers would be popular. Lots of states have a Saturday opener. I think Missouri’s is the second Saturday in November no matter the date and Iowa is the first Saturday in December. 


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

johnhunter247 said:


> With the 600,000+ hunters we have I wonder what the success rate is on opening day compared to the rest of the days in gun season combined.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Of course it's higher. One, more hunters are out. Two, the "easy" deer are killed off first. Three, most people are not willing to do the hard work needed to find deer when they retreat to their comfort zones. The fact remains that deer don't go nocturnal.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

johnhunter247 said:


> I did not know that. I’m surprised they changed it back. I would think working class people would appreciate a weekend opener. Especially ones with families that can’t use there vacation time for themselves. I could care less either way when gun season starts. But I would think weekend openers would be popular. Lots of states have a Saturday opener. I think Missouri’s is the second Saturday in November no matter the date and Iowa is the first Saturday in December.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Back then people's priorities were far different than today's. Families hunted together and it was more important than bouncing balls. 

PA opens on the Monday after Thanksgiving.


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## johnhunter247 (Mar 12, 2011)

DecoySlayer said:


> Of course it's higher. One, more hunters are out. Two, the "easy" deer are killed off first. Three, most people are not willing to do the hard work needed to find deer when they retreat to their comfort zones. The fact remains that deer don't go nocturnal.


There should be a survey on that! I think most would agree that they actually do go nocturnal fir the most part after the first few days of gun season. My cameras have told the tale for twenty plus years in our state. No matter the county or the habitat. Right now I’m hunting the thickest of the thick stuff where I’m at. I moved into it about a week ago. There are lots of tracks, sign but all the action is at night. The deer aren’t elsewhere during the day. They are hunkered down and moving/feeding at night. The cameras prove it. I have not seen a deer live on the hoof in the day light in quite a while.


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## johnhunter247 (Mar 12, 2011)

johnhunter247 said:


> There should be a survey on that! I think most would agree that they actually do go nocturnal fir the most part after the first few days of gun season. My cameras have told the tale for twenty plus years in our state. No matter the county or the habitat. Right now I’m hunting the thickest of the thick stuff where I’m at. I moved into it about a week ago. There are lots of tracks, sign but all the action is at night. The deer aren’t elsewhere during the day. They are hunkered down and moving/feeding at night. The cameras prove it. I have not seen a deer live on the hoof in the day light in quite a while.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Doesn’t mean I’m quitting though. It only takes a split second.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## brookie1 (Jan 26, 2011)

An interesting read on deer regulation history.

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/DEER_REGULATION_HISTORY_210705_7.pdf


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

johnhunter247 said:


> There should be a survey on that! I think most would agree that they actually do go nocturnal fir the most part after the first few days of gun season. My cameras have told the tale for twenty plus years in our state. No matter the county or the habitat. Right now I’m hunting the thickest of the thick stuff where I’m at. I moved into it about a week ago. There are lots of tracks, sign but all the action is at night. The deer aren’t elsewhere during the day. They are hunkered down and moving/feeding at night. The cameras prove it. I have not seen a deer live on the hoof in the day light in quite a while.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Where do you hunt? Are you on state land, or are you confined to a "small" private area. 

When I could hunt, I would go looking for deer, if I did not get one on the opener. Where I hunted in Michigan, that meant going deep into the cedar swamp. Get up on an "oak flat" and you could watch them moving all day long.

In PA, that meant going deep into the rocks and mountain laurel. Get up in a tree and you could see them moving all day long. 

In PA my brother and I hunted an "escape" area on the opener. It was very thick. We were only 100 yards apart. I could see him if I was in my tree. We seldom seen deer early. The shooting would start, out in the open woods, and by 0800 the deer would start showing up where we hunted. 

You could see them running, and once they hit that thick laurel, they quit running, and walked, providing easy shooting.

That area was only good on the first morning. The evening would see the deer leave that area, cross the road, and head into the really deep laurel on the other side of the road.


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## johnhunter247 (Mar 12, 2011)

DecoySlayer said:


> Where do you hunt? Are you on state land, or are you confined to a "small" private area.
> 
> When I could hunt, I would go looking for deer, if I did not get one on the opener. Where I hunted in Michigan, that meant going deep into the cedar swamp. Get up on an "oak flat" and you could watch them moving all day long.
> 
> ...


This year I am on state land but in the past all private land in Jackson and lenawee counties. Michigan were talking. Out west I dont believe deer go nocturnal much as there is minimal hunting pressure and I see deer all day every day no matter the season. My cameras have pretty much dried up as well this year. But the few I do have on camera are all at night. I mentioned yesterday that I was even enthusiastic because they cut all the remaining corn down last weekend which was several hundred acres. I’m guessing at least 500 to 600 acres. I assumed that corn was housing lots of deer and those deer had to go some where and I thought the thick cover I am in was going to be there go to. It isn’t the case.


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## johnhunter247 (Mar 12, 2011)

johnhunter247 said:


> This year I am on state land but in the past all private land in Jackson and lenawee counties. Michigan were talking. Out west I dont believe deer go nocturnal much as there is minimal hunting pressure and I see deer all day every day no matter the season. My cameras have pretty much dried up as well this year. But the few I do have on camera are all at night. I mentioned yesterday that I was even enthusiastic because they cut all the remaining corn down last weekend which was several hundred acres. I’m guessing at least 500 to 600 acres. I assumed that corn was housing lots of deer and those deer had to go some where and I thought the thick cover I am in was going to be there go to. It isn’t the case.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Before gun season started deer were abundant and many sightings every sit.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

bansheejoel said:


> Great hunting for spikes maybe..........


They are there if you want them! But so are the nice ones. You just gotta work for them. 

Everyone talks like they just want to walk out and shoot a monster with little effort. That's what ranches are for. 

Michigan has never been and will never be like that. If nothing else, because of all the public land we have, which is our GREATEST ASSET. Private land and ranches are what breed those Giants. Michigan just isn't built that way. We are better hunters because of it. Those guys couldn't come here and do what we do. They'd be lost in the woods. 

Sent from my E6810 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## fishx65 (Aug 24, 2005)

motdean said:


> But why would the lobbying stop by any special interest at the NRC and DNR if the ultimate authority lies with the legislature?


I thought Proposal G made the DNR/NRC the ultimate authority when it comes to our wildlife/hunting decisions but apparently not. I think the lobbying should stop at the NRC/DNR but you're obviously right, it doesn't. What kinda scares me is that the Anti-hunting groups are much more likely to lobby and influence our legislators more so then our DNR/NRC. I'm just not crazy about fellow hunters circumventing Proposal G to bring our legislators back in the fold. Yes, I think the DNR/NRC screwed up by not banning bait in the entire U.P. but turning to our legislators is not the brightest idea and will come back to haunt us.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

johnhunter247 said:


> This year I am on state land but in the past all private land in Jackson and lenawee counties. Michigan were talking. Out west I dont believe deer go nocturnal much as there is minimal hunting pressure and I see deer all day every day no matter the season. My cameras have pretty much dried up as well this year. But the few I do have on camera are all at night. I mentioned yesterday that I was even enthusiastic because they cut all the remaining corn down last weekend which was several hundred acres. I’m guessing at least 500 to 600 acres. I assumed that corn was housing lots of deer and those deer had to go some where and I thought the thick cover I am in was going to be there go to. It isn’t the case.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There is a place where they go. There always is. It could be some private land where hunting is not allowed. I don't know the area that you hunt. 

Back when I had miles to roam, and the legs for it, it was my favorite time to hunt. It was fun just looking for them.


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## motdean (Oct 23, 2011)

fishx65 said:


> I thought Proposal G made the DNR/NRC the ultimate authority when it comes to our wildlife/hunting decisions but apparently not. I think the lobbying should stop at the NRC/DNR but you're obviously right, it doesn't. What kinda scares me is that the Anti-hunting groups are much more likely to lobby and influence our legislators more so then our DNR/NRC. I'm just not crazy about fellow hunters circumventing Proposal G to bring our legislators back in the fold. Yes, I think the DNR/NRC screwed up by not banning bait in the entire U.P. but turning to our legislators is not the brightest idea and will come back to haunt us.


Certain,hunters, the NRC, and the DNR already did circumvent Proposal G....otherwise, they would have not removed APR's in the U.P., nor the restrictions off the second buck tag in the CWD zones.

....and further, to your point, the bait ban only being peninsula wide in one peninsula.

Lack of consistency, lack of compromise.


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## Joe Archer (Mar 29, 2000)

poz said:


> Just saw this, thoughts?
> 
> https://www.wzzm13.com/article/news...higan/69-9e522f8a-5d46-406a-82e8-24ace35809dc


Great article ... if you like convoluted logic!
Take pre-rut/rut away from the bow hunters, and numbers could decline as well.
The vast majority of rifle hunters also participate in archery season.
If you think ANY change in hunting regulations would have a significant impact on overpopulation in the SLP .... think again.
<----<<<


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## johnhunter247 (Mar 12, 2011)

jiggin is livin said:


> They are there if you want them! But so are the nice ones. You just gotta work for them.
> 
> Everyone talks like they just want to walk out and shoot a monster with little effort. That's what ranches are for.
> 
> ...


I’ve never shot a good buck that came easy. But this couldn’t be better said. Good post!


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

motdean said:


> Ummm.....the NRC is and isn't following the Plan.
> 
> It says at a minimum baiting and feeding should not be allowed in the CWD Zones. It does not say peninsula wide. I understand that they can push for more than the minimum, but they don't have to.
> 
> ...


I would guess that they didn't go statewide for a couple of reasons.

First reason is deer density in the UP is very low. Cwd prevelency is related to deer density. 

2nd reason is hunter density in the UP is very low in the last 5 yrs. Low hunters = few people baiting. 

3rd reason is economics driven. Tourism from deer hunting in the UP is suffering. Any additional slip in that area has a bigger affect than the lower peninsula. Plenty of people still own vacation homes in the northern lower and a percentage of people will continue to travel and spend money to deer hunt because they own those homes. The UP has far less of that group to help support tourism. Lack of hunters affects deer density too.

You havent proven to me that the NRC isnt following the plan. To me you are saying that the NRC isnt following the plan in a manner in which you prefer. Nothing in the plan says they shouldnt ban baiting in the lower peninsula.


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## motdean (Oct 23, 2011)

DirtySteve said:


> I would guess that they didn't go statewide for a couple of reasons.
> 
> First reason is deer density in the UP is very low. Cwd prevelency is related to deer density.
> 
> ...


There is where you are incorrect. I am not a fan of baiting.

and according to the DNR, the risk of baiting is so bad that they would rather lose hunters than allow baiting.

Allowing it in low density CWD areas is how they get to be high density areas.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

motdean said:


> There is where you are incorrect. I am not a fan of baiting.
> 
> and according to the DNR, the risk of baiting is so bad that they would rather lose hunters than allow baiting.
> 
> Allowing it in low density CWD areas is how they get to be high density areas.


They have allowed baiting for decades in the UP and density remains at 40 year lows still so i cannot be wrong.


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## feedinggrounds (Jul 21, 2009)

johnhunter247 said:


> I wonder if those numbers are close for this year or still declining.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Human nature being what it is, If hunter numbers increased by just 1 over last year it would be spun into a immediate press release by multiple alphabet groups. I have seen nothing.


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