# Is The .410 A Turkey Gun ??



## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

This question came up at the gun club recently. A quick check of the DNR's MWTHG shows that the .410 is legal in MI. Somewhat surprising, as in most states, its "20 gauge or larger".

If you read the top gun writers who are also turkey hunters (Jim Charmichel, Bob Brister, Grits Gresham, etc) you'll never see turkeys and .410s mentioned in the same paragraph. If you pattern a .410 out at normal turkey killing yardages, you'll soon see why. You won't find any "turkey loads" in .410s either.

A few real sharpshooters use the .410 for a lot of things, maybe even turkeys. But this excludes 98.8% of the rest of us (myself included). I'd like to hear the moderators weigh in on this one (Trout? Mr. 16 GA ?)

Natty B.


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

In my mind any one that would attempt to take a turkey with a 410 has no respect for turkeys. The do not deserve to be hunted with a firearm that doesn't have the ability to dispatch them humanely. Enough birds are wounded and get away each year with out adding any more to the number with a gun that is not up to the challange.


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## mechanical head (Jan 18, 2000)

Anyone serious about turkey hunting would not even Think about hunting turkeys with a 410. 

Its also legal to hunt deer with a .17 cal ?? 

Both choices are legal, but never suggested !!!


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

multibeard,

Amen to that! These big birds are very heavily feathered and can be very tough to kill. There is a good piece on turkey guns in the latest Field & Stream (March)

Natty B.


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## Dom (Sep 19, 2002)

I like the 410 for more of a challenge at the Skeet range just as much as the next guy, but I wouldn't use it on turkeys for reasons stated -- just ain't got enough oooomph in my book, Waidmannsheil, Dom.


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## Mr. 16 gauge (Jan 26, 2000)

I'm not sure why you want a moderators opinon, but here's mine, FWIW:
Do I feel a turkey CAN be taken with a .410 shotgun? Yes, I do. Do I think a turkey SHOULD be taken with a .410 shotgun? Probably not, at least not by the majority of hunters, and the only time I think it should be attempted is by someone who has extensive turkey hunting experience and fieldcraft, extensive knowledge of a turkey's anatomy, EXTREME patience, a GREAT handload that they have patterned extensively, and a gift when it comes to range estimation.
Natty, you have basically hit the nail on the head with your comments on patterning. We always tell new turkey hunters to "pattern thier gun". Yet how many actually do this.....further, how many actually do it with thier skeet loads, duck loads, pheasant loads, ect? I would bet that 98% of shotgunners have no clue as to how thier guns react with different shells, shot sizes, types (steel, lead, ect). There are some generalities out there, and people just accept them as blanket and apply them to thier gun. The heaviest load in .410 that I can find is 11/16ths of an ounce. Roughly speaking, that is 138 pellets if one is using #6 shot. Seems like a lot, but there are other influencing factors. Most notable, the shot column, which in a 410 is guite long. This leads to pellet deformation on firing and would cause quite a number of those pellets to go "off target". There is a reason that almost all 410 field guns have full chokes; it is to take advantage of every possible pellet it can due to this phenomena. Velocity (or oomph) is really not an issue......a 410 3" factory load travels at 1135 fps. A 2 3/4" factory 1 1/2 oz load out of a standard 12 gauge clocks in at 1150 fps....only 15fps faster at the muzzle. A pellet going X fps has the same energy if fired at the same velocity, irregardless of whether it was fired from a 12 gauge or 410. That 12 gauge load has been a "factory standard" turkey load for years! 
Can you do anything to improve the pattern on a .410? A handloader MIGHT be able to......copper or nickle plated shot, buffer, some powder experimentation might tighten up patterns and make them acceptable......but we are still talking A CLOSE RANGE WEAPON! How close? I don't know...I have never patterned a .410. I have heard the "experts" say that you need a minimum of 3 pellets in the head and spine region for a quick kill on a turkey; personally, I like to double that. Find a .410 load that did that at a given range, consistantly, then that is what I would limit my shots to. I wouldn't be surprised, even with all the tinkering (handloading), if it wasn't 15 yards or less. I feel if you have the patience to wait until a gobbler is that close, then go for it. I know I don't.
As far as .410 turkey loads go....no, you don't hear of .410 factory turkey loads. But you do hear of .410 slugs for deer, and there are a number of people out there who feel a .410 slug should be outlawed for deer, yet they are still made. And there are .410 waterfowl loads made, but I don't find any .410 hulls floating in the cornfields at Harsen's Island, either.
Finally, do I think that the .410 should be made illegal for turkey hunting? No, I don't. I have a major problem with folks who want to ban this or that, no matter how well intentioned they are. Personally, I think if we are going to "ban" items because of high wounding rates/crippling losses, then I think archery tackle needs to be the first to go.....I think more deer go unrecovered from poor hits/poor tracking skills with bow hunting gear each year than do buckshot, .410 slugs, minimal handgun calibers, ect. Remember, that is just my opinion. 
I think that anyone who would use a .410 on turkey knows that they would have to get CLOSE. Currently, my problem is with individuals who claim that by using hevishot they can kill birds out to 100 yards (or more). These people concern me more with regards to crippling/wounding birds & having no respect for thier quarry than someone using a .410. Just my 2 cents.


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

Mr. 16 Ga,

Thanks for any excellent answer (as usual). My reason for starting this thread is that there are many new turkey hunters each spring and also many newcomers recently to M-S.com. Many may think that a .410 single shotgun that they already have would be good for their son or daughter for turkey hunting. After all, its legal, right? IMHO they should think again.

BTW I have also heard Ray Eye, Will Primos, Knight and Hale and other say they want a minimum of five pellets in the brain and spinal cord on that turkey patterning target. This agrees with what you said also. Please pattern your guns.

Natty B.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Mr. 16 Gauge
My sentuments exactly. 

Lets not limit our choice of weapons by jumping on the "banning wagon". We should just ban ignorance and blatant disreguard for a life on this earth.

Any newbies out there, please ask questions on guns, patterning, or anything else that is unclear. Remember, the only stupid question is one unasked. Feel free to PM me if you do not want to post.


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## TeamPolarisracing (Nov 7, 2002)

last year i used a 410 for turkey hunting it worked just fine i shoot it a lot before going out.


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

No, way to small.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

You obviously had that bird right in front of you, like less than 20 yards, probably an absolutely clear shot, with nothing like a branch from a tree or something like might deflect the shot, and you're obviously very proficient with that .410, which you probably know how to use very well. Good for you-it can be done. I know of a couple of people who have killed wild turkeys with a .410.

BUT, that is the exception to the rule. Most often, your shot window is much narrower, and the worst feeling in the world is watching a crippled wild turkey fly off that you know you hit-you also know it's now coyote bait, flying wild turkeys don't leave tracks and rarely is there any blood at all.

Do yourself a favor, and the turkeys-get a 12 gauge. I killed my first bird with a 16, a sweet gun, but an auto and too heavy to carry in the field very long. Bought a cheap 12 a year or so later, and have never regretted it.


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## Mr. 16 gauge (Jan 26, 2000)

Linda....Linda.....Linda;
Let me get this straight: You bought a *12 gauge* because a *16 gauge* was too *heavy* ???  
My, my girl......I think you need to get some barbells and build up that upper arm strength!   
No wonder more people don't carry .410s turkey hunting.....they might give themselves a hernia hauling them things around in the woods.............Bwahahahahahahhaaa!


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

My Fox bst 16 gauge has gotten to heavy for this old geezer to lug around very much. The only thing that I hunt with it any more are pats once in a while. Love the gun but at about 7 lbs it is more than I care to lug around. Same with my Model 12 winchester for turkey hunting. It does a real good job on the turkeys but it wears me out if I lug it to far. That is why I bought my first 835 Mossberg. Kicks like heck but with only one shot usually I will trade that for carrying less weight. I would like to shoot a turkey with the Fox double but I have never pattered it. I do know that it doesn't shoot slugs worth beans.


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## mechanical head (Jan 18, 2000)

trout, 

I'm guessing thats TPr only gun ? Or maybe he doesn't know any better. Most of the time Respect comes with Age. 

If the 410 came out with a high power turkey load it might be different, but I don't see that happining. 

After you see a few birds take complete rounds in the body get up and fly away, most will be going for the 12 or 10 gauge.
I've seen birds dusted inside of twenty five yards with 12 guages, get up and fly away. Granted the shots should have been placed in the head and neck area a little more, But I would of bet the farm those turkey were not getting up....


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## Hunter333 (Jan 19, 2000)

Is the 410 a turkey gun? Legaly, yes. SHOULD it be used? general concensus is NO. Are there exceptions to this? Sure, there is always someone somewhere that can do well what most would never consider possible. I think that it is great to state your OPINION and why, as this gives new shooters and idea of what goes into dispatching a bird in the wild, quickly and effeicently!


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

Mr. 16-yes, weight...my old sweet 16 Remington semi-auto 1100, with all that wood and a 28 inch barrel, weighs a LOT more than my cheap, mostly plastic Winchester 1300 12 gauge pump, it's clunkier in the woods, too, with that longer barrel...

I carry a little Spanish sxs 20 during the regular grouse and woodcock season now...bought a Mossberg 835 3 and 1/2 inch pump last summer for waterfowl, getting rid of it this year. Too much gun, even with a shortened stock and recoil pad...

plastic has its advantages...cheap and light...


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## Robert W. McCoy Jr (Jan 18, 2002)

I don't mind the extra weight.
When I pull up on a Turkey or anything else the last thing I wanna think about is do I have enough gun to make the shot.

Beretta Xtrema 12ga..


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

Hey Rob, thats a good one.

There are some good posts here and its what I was hoping to hear from you guys. MH, I would agree that its an absolutely sickening feeling to watch a tom that has been absolutely flattened with a 12 ga, within sure range too, get up and wobble off into the woods- no blood, no feathers, no tracks, nothing to go on.

One final thought. One of my favorite authors was Robert Ruark, who wrote a book named "Use Enough Gun". Ol' Bob R. was writing about Africa but....... IMHO, for turkeys, the .410 aint!

Natty B.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

IMHO, saying that a 410 isn't for turkeys is like saying a bow isn't for deer. What's the difference?? You have to know range limitations, shot angles, and vitals. I see no difference, bottom line: Know your tool (weapon) how it performs and what it's limitations are (as well as your own)


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## Robert W. McCoy Jr (Jan 18, 2002)

I agree.
To each his own.
Use what you comfortable with.

I hunt alot mostly rabbit and I can tell you I have seen rabbit take a full load from a twelve and leave a blood trail.
Fortuantly it's usually over quick do to the dog's 
but there there are alot of times guy's have thought they missed 
and the dog's end up catching it.

I also know Turkeys are a whole lot harder to kill than a rabbit so 
when I shoot one if it even tries to move it get's it again because they don't leave a blood trail if they fly..


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## rabbit whacker (Jan 22, 2003)

I have been using a .410 for rabbits and been very happy. I carry it for its light weight and size. It has been very accurate for me out to 30 plus yards. On the other hand a turkey and a rabbit are quite a bit different. I would never recommend or use a .410 on a turkey.


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## Danatodd99 (Dec 26, 2001)

Freepop, 

I agree with you. I have a .410, would I use it to hunt a turkey, no .... why you ask, 2 reasons I haven't shot it enough to be proficient with it. 2 is that I have an H&R 12 long tom that I use specifically for turkey hunting only. This will darn near take their heads off out to 45 yds. it has a 36" bbl

Should it be banned, no like many others have said what if that's all you have is a .410 (36 gauge). That will be keeping someone interested in the sport out.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

Would I? NO
Would I ever allow one of my sons? NO 
Should it be outlawed? NO
But I sure would hope people would make an honest assesment of both their and the guns ability before trying it. Not tossing enough pellets for my taste.


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