# Pole barn help



## dachief (Feb 20, 2010)

I have a 30 x 40 pole barn. A few years ago I noticed the poles in 1 corner had heaved up quite a bit. I dug around the poles on the outside all the way to the bottom and pulled the corner back down. I put bags of cement around each of the poles. This spring I see it is heaving back up again. Anybody have any ideas as to what is causing this? I dont have any gutters on the roof. Was wonderinf if the rain was causing this? Thanks in advance, Dave.


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## Jimw (Jul 8, 2009)

Sounds like the holes aren't deep enough and the frost heaved the footing. Its been horrible cold the past couple winters as I'm sure you know. Code says 42" deep. I always go at least 45, I don't like call backs..


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

You need to drain the water away from that post plus get insulated under that post.


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## UplandnWaterfowl (Jan 3, 2010)

Jimw said:


> Sounds like the holes aren't deep enough and the frost heaved the footing. Its been horrible cold the past couple winters as I'm sure you know. Code says 42" deep. I always go at least 45, I don't like call backs..


This is your problem, if you can hand dig to the bottom of your posts they will heave every year no matter what you do. Cement around the posts will make it worse, more area to heave up from the frost line. Water from no gutters is not the problem, how many old barns do you see with gutters, they don't have heave problems because the have good footings. 

That is the only thing the inspector looked at on the barn i built last year, did it have donuts and where they at least 42 deep. Every thing else he didn't care, you can easy fix above ground, under ground problems you have to tear it down and start from scratch.


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## dachief (Feb 20, 2010)

When the building was put up the inspector said posts had to be 48" deep, yes they put the donuts down. he came out and measured them before the builder could fill in the holes. I was at work that day. They are close to that deep when I dug them up.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Are you in a heavy soil area, I suspect it is a water problem. You might be retaining more moisture in the disturbed soil around the poles than in the Undisturbed soil around them.

Does the ground slop away from the building in that corner.


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## Jimw (Jul 8, 2009)

Is the pole barn heated?How was the snow cover near that corner? Grass? I built a deck in the beginning of April., the area around where we had to dig had no grass and not much snow cover, we jack hammered frost for at least 38" that's getting awfully close to 42". Remember, code is the bare minimum to pass.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

dachief said:


> .... I dug around the poles on the outside all the way to the bottom and pulled the corner back down.
> 
> ......


How did you pull the corner back down ? About how high had it pitched upwards ?
Following this thread to learn as much as possible in case I ever have a similar problem.

L & O


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Two things, IMO.

1. Get the water away from there. Moisture freezes and expands, the more moisture the more expanding.

2. Get your footing deeper. Frost went over 4 foot this year in areas that had no snow cover.

Additionally, I'd try an hold that post down with cable and an anchor or two underground while I had it exposed.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

FREEPOP said:


> .........
> 
> Additionally, I'd try an hold that post down with cable and an anchor or two underground while I had it exposed.


I can't see how this idea could fail.

L & O


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

http://www.startribune.com/local/yourvoices/210375131.html


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## Josh R (Dec 4, 2010)

Liver and Onions said:


> How did you pull the corner back down ? About how high had it pitched upwards ?
> Following this thread to learn as much as possible in case I ever have a similar problem.
> 
> L & O


I'm curious as to how he got it back down also. Interesting! 
Is there concrete outside that could've possibly heaved that corner pole? If concrete somehow got under the bottom skirt board it might lift it, it's highly unlikely that's the case tho
Josh
Edit: I guess if he dug down, there's obviously no concrete on the outside


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## dachief (Feb 20, 2010)

swampbuck said:


> Are you in a heavy soil area, I suspect it is a water problem. You might be retaining more moisture in the disturbed soil around the poles than in the Undisturbed soil around them.
> 
> Does the ground slop away from the building in that corner.


Yeah, Swampbuck, it is heavy soil/clay. Northeast corner. Somewhat slopes away. After I dug down, I used a come along tied at the top header down to the front of my Duramax. Inside floor is concrete.


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## dachief (Feb 20, 2010)

Jimw said:


> Is the pole barn heated?How was the snow cover near that corner? Grass? I built a deck in the beginning of April., the area around where we had to dig had no grass and not much snow cover, we jack hammered frost for at least 38" that's getting awfully close to 42". Remember, code is the bare minimum to pass.


Jimw, it is not heated


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## Jimw (Jul 8, 2009)

Since digging underneath the footing in pouring more concrete is going to be a huge p.i.a. I wonder if you could shore up that corner of the barn, cut the post off flush with the slab. Dig the lower piece of the post out, and cookie out. Dig deeper to better soil/further below frost,and pour a sonotube and mount the existing post to it with a post base bracket?


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

Jimw said:


> Since digging underneath the footing in pouring more concrete is going to be a huge p.i.a. I wonder if you could shore up that corner of the barn, cut the post off flush with the slab. Dig the lower piece of the post out, and cookie out. Dig deeper to better soil/further below frost,and pour a sonotube and mount the existing post to it with a post base bracket?



That sounds good. If that's not an option, maybe get it sloped away well and put down water barrier (heavy black plastic)and stone out 12 or more feet from that corner to keep the soil dry.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

What is a cookie/


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

New requirement for setting poles. A cement cookie is at the bottom of the hole vs cement around the pole.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

It's because people were cheating and shoving some dirt in the hole after the inspector left


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