# Change in the spring opener day!



## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

The NRC has voted to amend the start day for the spring turkey season to be the 2nd to last Saturday in May.
I just received this from a MUCC Policy Board Member.

Dear MUCC member,

It is with great pride and joy that I notify you of a 2016 MUCC resolution that was passed as an amendment to a regulation at the November Natural Resources Commission (NRC) meeting. *The rule amended the spring turkey hunting regulations to allow for a Saturday opener on the second to last Saturday in April on both public and private lands statewide and for each subsequent season. For reference, the spring turkey hunting regulations are considered on a three-year cycle.*

A resolution urging MUCC to advocate for a Saturday opener was passed at Annual Convention in 2016, and we tried to urge the NRC that fall for a change in the regulations. We were unsuccessful. Three years later, we still had this issue on our minds. I testified last month before the commission urging for consideration of a Saturday opener which would provide greater opportunity for hunters. After talking with commissioners and realizing no biological impact, the NRC amended the regulations to include a Saturday opener last week.


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## d_rek (Nov 6, 2013)

But why?

Also you said May above and then the quote says April. Which is it?

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## hmrx (May 4, 2012)

Turkey regs, like deer regs are now cooked up between mucc and their former player our dnr director. The Michigan chapter nwtf were not in favor of the saturday opener and luke warm on the many changes for next year. We were hardly listened to in meetings. Seems our 40 years of raising money and improving habitat mean little anymore. I believe the last figure was 4.2.million raised since 85' spent on habitat and hunter education. Mucc, dnr and the NRC seems to think turkey hunts can be expanded to what ever level looks good, to hell with the resource. We hunt turkeys twice, spring and fall, unlike any other game. DNR numbers show half our harvest comes in april where gobblers are breeding and hens are starting to nest. Now we just moved the season earlier. Some research indicates harvesting too many adults in april isn't good for the most robust flock and production. Some years winter is still hanging on. At some point the hens need to be left to nest. Now we also are going to allow hunting in june. Where does it stop. I suspect when the numbers go down, the northern flocks are trending down now, so winter dependent. When will the resource be put first and not what's most convenient for hunters. I guess the dnr will turn this into a crisis management issue like so many others.The nwtf has always thought of the resource first. The original reason for spring hunt timing was to set dates so most hens were bred and on nests. Reducing chances for incidental hen kills. A real issue nobody considers. Research on that ranges from 10 to 34% depending on the state. Too many hunters in april and adult gobbler kills, and the associated incidental hen kill, are an issue that could really affect production. That's why NY and PA don't hunt in April. WS and Mn have very limited April hunts. The nwtf was very much opposed to the April and June expansions. 

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## Captain (Feb 11, 2000)

So the opener will now be on Saturday April 18th instead of Monday April 20th? Nice


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## backstrap bill (Oct 10, 2004)

From what I’ve read about it it sounds good to me I’ll take the second hunt with 14 days consecutive


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## milanmark (Apr 10, 2012)

There were other changes too in the latest Woods n Waters news. So one guy can go in and bam massive changes? What we have been doing worked so why massive change? Not sure if all are true if they are goodbye turkeys...


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## hmrx (May 4, 2012)

The director and mucc pushed for this. The Saturday opener was an amendment at the vote. The nwtf was opposed to the amendment and some other changes. Only Louise Klarr, she's a turkey hunter, voted against the amendment. All the other 6 commissioners, Eichenger , and mucc saw was expansion and more hunter options. They voted as a block and will again. They forgot to ask the fundamental question, what's best for the resource. Seriously, 7 weeks of turkey season at the northern part of their range in the upper midwest that starts in mid April. 

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## LG1 (Sep 8, 2008)

Sounds like turkey hunting is going the way of the deer hunting. More hunts longer season... kill them all.


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

The early season will be 2 days longer......correct ? I can see where more hunters might elect to hunt the early season now, but I don't think any more toms will be killed for the season at the end of the day on May 31st.
Want more turkeys ? Kill more ***** and yotes. Contribute to programs that feed turkeys during the winter months.

L & O


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## hmrx (May 4, 2012)

All that you say is very true. The issue is that more adult gobblers will be shot in April before breeding hens. The harvest is already skewed to April. As I posted earlier some research shows that's not the best approach for the most successful reproduction. Some years with a late spring gobblers will be shot before the majority of breeding takes place. Trouble is we can't predict what next winter will be come april.

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## milanmark (Apr 10, 2012)

Liver and Onions said:


> The early season will be 2 days longer......correct ? I can see where more hunters might elect to hunt the early season now, but I don't think any more toms will be killed for the season at the end of the day on May 31st.
> Want more turkeys ? Kill more ***** and yotes. Contribute to programs that feed turkeys during the winter months.
> 
> L & O


Its not the 2 days, I'm ok with that. The guy who wrote into the woods n water news mentioned a lot of other changes I won't list them... the biggest being one big long season? If it was just an opener I'm ok but everybody can go hunting at once? If that's true NOT happy at all!


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## d_rek (Nov 6, 2013)

You guys are forgetting one thing these changes hinge upon: more people actually hunting. From what I’ve seen in my neck of the woods there’s just not that many guys out hunting birds. New regs aren’t likely to change that. 


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## d_rek (Nov 6, 2013)

As a relatively younger (37) hunter who’s been hunting birds in SEMI for 5 years now with fairly good success I’ll post some general observations along with some anecdotes from other hunters I know:

Early season is the best time to hunt birds down here. Late season gets much more difficult if you didn’t have a large track of land to chase birds. I have enjoyed good success in early season due to availability of land and healthy bird populations. Not everyone is as lucky or in the same situation as I. 

Taking birds in early season has had no visible impact on populations by me. I regularly see healthy flocks in excess of 20 birds on both public and private. In the late spring/summer I see healthy offspring 6+ poults to a hen. 

I personally feel I could shoot two toms in the spring and it would have very little affect on overall population dynamics. Some hunters I know feel the same. Not scientific but how we feel nonetheless. 

Spring is a less than ideal time for many sports persons to hunt my age as they are generally many other family, work, and life obligations at that time. Many of my peers consciously choose late season to allow for more time in the field even if it means less opportunity to harvest a bird. I generally take vacation for early season to chase birds which also happens to coincide with my kids spring break. 

Most turkey hunters I know might average 2-3 sits per season. Again other obligations keep guys out of the woods this time of year. I don’t see extended seasons or new season dates changing that much. 

I personally like the season dates as is, but changing to 2nd to last Saturday is not a big deal IMO. However I never understood separate seasons since you can currently only get a single spring turkey tag, so I am looking forward to an extended season. 

I also heard they will allow taking a bird from a tree stand. IMO not as fun as taking them on the ground up close and personal. But whatever I don’t see the big fuss. 

Lastly this might offend some but I have heard more than once and from several hunters that turkey conservation is a resounding success and many don’t feel the need to continue to manage turkey as if it is a a scarce and limited resource. 

Anyway just some rambling thoughts after a few nips of Laphroaig 10... 


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## hmrx (May 4, 2012)

That's how you keep it a success by putting resource first. Not always what makes it easier for hunters to fill a tag. Remember your personal situation might not be the same everywhere. Turkeys were once gone from Michigan just over 100 years ago. Let's try not to loose sight of the forest for the trees. Some of the changes are good but, the continual desire to move dates earlier which puts more hunters afield earlier are not the way to go. Hens need to nest.

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## michiganreaper (Sep 23, 2008)

It's about the all mighty $$! Hell with the resource and the hunters. Michigan finally did something right with turkeys. I read something mich 4th for turkeys in the nation, 40% success rate and hunters 70% had an excellent hunt. Only the Michigan DNR thinks we'll it's working. So let's change it to screw it up and get more hunters, more $$$. What a joke!!! You think lowa is like we do a good job with deer. Let's make a bunch of changes. Sad state of affairs at our DNR.


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## d_rek (Nov 6, 2013)

I should also add I feel that the current regs work very well and have no complaints about season dates or my success rate.


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## hmrx (May 4, 2012)

Mostly my posts have been about the technical and biological dangers of too much April hunting. At first I thought those in charge lost their minds but, the post that mentioned more dollars for license sales gave me a clearer picture as I studied it. Look at the southern ZZ hunt. For the last several years dnr reduced the 50K licences available to 35K so that it would be more in line with demand but, still have leftovers. Now with the 6week hunt dnr new demand would go up and more would buy for the 6week hunt so they raised the quota back up to 50K expecting more sales. This move potentially puts many more hunters afield for the mid April opener now on Saturday. This will certainly increase the April harvest and hunter satisfaction will suffer. Problem is turkeys don't know fences and boundaries and a good number move around freely on many properties both public and private. Most hunters in southern Michigan will feel the effects of more hunters hunting at the same time. It's a shame it seems money for licenses may have been one of the underlying causes of the many changes.

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## d_rek (Nov 6, 2013)

hmrx said:


> Mostly my posts have been about the technical and biological dangers of too much April hunting. At first I thought those in charge lost their minds but, the post that mentioned more dollars for license sales gave me a clearer picture as I studied it. Look at the southern ZZ hunt. For the last several years dnr reduced the 50K licences available to 35K so that it would be more in line with demand but, still have leftovers. Now with the 6week hunt dnr new demand would go up and more would buy for the 6week hunt so they raised the quota back up to 50K expecting more sales. This move potentially puts many more hunters afield for the mid April opener now on Saturday. This will certainly increase the April harvest and hunter satisfaction will suffer. Problem is turkeys don't know fences and boundaries and a good number move around freely on many properties both public and private. Most hunters in southern Michigan will feel the effects of more hunters hunting at the same time. It's a shame it seems money for licenses may have been one of the underlying causes of the many changes.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Again I would ask yourself (and be honest) if we think a few regulation changes are going to dam the loss in general hunter participation throughout the state. It gets mentioned quite a bit in regards to whitetail hunting but in my experience there aren't that many turkey hunters hitting the woods - certainly far less than whitetail hunters. 

IMO Changing dates and increasing tag availability isn't likely to curb the current trend in hunter participation loss and low hunter recruitment.


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## hmrx (May 4, 2012)

Good choice in scotch. I agree with the young hunter recruitment issue. Most anything we do won't stop the loss of young hunters. To retain more young hunters a high satisfaction rate may bring more back. If you look at license sales, total for the whole state, vs population you'll notice whitetails and turkeys are similar. 1.75M deer and 900K hunters for a ratio of 1.8. Turkeys are around 200K with about 90K hunters with a ratio of 2.22. The young hunter issue is real and accelerating as more older bums like myself move on. Younger guys like you need to stay involved and don't give up on finding an answer. Spring wouldn't be the same without being able to chase gobbling turkeys.

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## d_rek (Nov 6, 2013)

hmrx said:


> Younger guys like you need to stay involved and don't give up on finding an answer. Spring wouldn't be the same without being able to chase gobbling turkeys.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Thanks. I'm realizing the more I hunt it's simply not good enough to just participate in the hunt aspect while calling myself a hunter. Right now just doing what I can: Paying attention to the issues, regulations, attending odds meetings occasionally, and most importantly voting and harassing our state reps! Also trying to foster love of outdoors in my own children.


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## fowl (Feb 15, 2003)

Much ado about nothing. Everybody thought crossbows were the devil and it would make deer extinct. Didn’t happen. Turkey populations are doing very well, hunter success rates are fantastic. Many states offer multiple tags per hunter, we offer one. This minor change will not result in a noticeable difference in turkey numbers. 


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## 20 Pounder (Jan 4, 2005)

It was nice having the hunting pressure spread out over 5 days before the first Saturday of the season. Now everyone is going to be in the woods on opening day of each season. The second hunt is going to be very popular now.


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## Justin (Feb 21, 2005)

What a shame. They take a very successful program and ruin it. Typical of our "new" DNR and NRC. There was nothing wrong with what we had, in fact I've often argued that they should look at turkey regs for a blueprint for new deer hunting regs.


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## retired dundo (Jul 21, 2015)

Saw lots of turkey last year.But also saw a lot of hens in late June with no young ones.Way to many raccoons.qNobody hunts them anymore they multiply like rabbits.If everyone that turkey hunts would kill some raccoons every year I can’t imagine how many turkeys we would have


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## d_rek (Nov 6, 2013)

retired dundo said:


> Saw lots of turkey last year.But also saw a lot of hens in late June with no young ones.Way to many raccoons.qNobody hunts them anymore they multiply like rabbits.If everyone that turkey hunts would kill some raccoons every year I can’t imagine how many turkeys we would have


You're not too far from me. I'm in east china. I see a lot of ***** too, but also really healthy flocks for last several years. This year I didn't see as many poults as I usually see, but that might just mean they are frequenting different areas. 

Maybe in areas where the flocks aren't as large or wintering conditions are more severe that might be more of a concern? Idk, just doesn't seem to bear out by us.


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## MILONEWOLF (Oct 28, 2013)

Not sure of a earlier opener, weather sketchy enough. I have heard year after year that the DNR is doing this and doing that. Always about money, FYI, it is about money. Reduced number of hunters means less dollars. Nowadays people are about instant gratification and hunting is not about that, patience and hunting = being outdoors. The DNR is not responsible for society, it has to deal with lower number of hunters and providing hunters with opportunities for success. A no win situation. I had a a successful hunting season with no game brought home. I enjoyed getting out and trying, not wanting a handout. It is hunting not a guaranteed canned hunt. I saw two small does on gun opener, then a buck the next day crossing a road as I got out of my truck, then in the evening, a female bear with two cubs. That was and is success.


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## Slimits (Jun 30, 2014)

One thing that i always think is odd is why not make your early tag available to use during may after your one week hunt is over? So if your not successful early then you have a chance late


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## 22 Chuck (Feb 2, 2006)

Kill every **** and possum you see, everywhere. Dont chase em into the ditch, however. AAA wont like that.


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## TheLionsFan (Dec 20, 2011)

Maybe im late to the game, but reading the spring turkey digest, it appears the ZZ hunt 301 goes from April 18 all the way to May 31?? Am i reading this correctly?


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## atking (Sep 15, 2018)

That's how I see it as well.


TheLionsFan said:


> Maybe im late to the game, but reading the spring turkey digest, it appears the ZZ hunt 301 goes from April 18 all the way to May 31?? Am i reading this correctly?


-AK


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## wpmisport (Feb 9, 2010)

_It's nice that we can harvest this many turkeys in Michigan -_
100% Chance of getting a license 30% + Hunter success 30,000+ Turkeys Harvested

_Another reason it nice to have private land -_
The private-land-only license, Hunt 0301 (Unit ZZ), is not valid on county, state, or federal lands, except to hunt Fort Custer military lands with permission. Hunters should have permission to hunt private lands before applying for one of these licenses. 
HUNT UNIT SEASON DATES MAXIMUM LICENSE QUOTA HUNT NUMBER ZZ April 18 – May 31 50,000 0301


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Interesting that the public land hunts starting with 'Z' can hunt June 1-7 besides the April 18-24 slot. If this was available in previous years, I missed seeing it.

L & O


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## Namrock (Apr 12, 2016)

Being completely selfish here about the extended 301 hunt. But with those extra weekends (working stiff) I might be able to get both my son & nephew on bird's a little earlier next spring & not have to wait until the last couple of days (the last 2 seasons) to try & get on one for myself. & If it gives more young hunters more time to be out there & doing something awesome in the woods I'm good with that. I mean come on, who can say no to these faces?


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## Slick Trick40 (Nov 25, 2012)

My selfish thinking is I don’t like the Saturday opener. I always would take Monday-Wednesday off the first season and hunt public land. Hardly ever saw anyone turkey hunting those days. Saturday will have more competition. It’s gonna give more opportunity for the guy that can’t get off during the week to get first crack which I guess is a good thing


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## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Slimits said:


> What am i missing? Just looked at the turkey digest and all the early hunts still open on a monday!! Wth


??? Are you looking at a 2020 calendar ?

L & O


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## Namrock (Apr 12, 2016)

April 18th & 25th are both Saturdays on my calendar?


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## Slimits (Jun 30, 2014)

Im an idiot, was looking at may


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## Namrock (Apr 12, 2016)

Slimits said:


> Im an idiot, was looking at may


My wife would tell you, you're not the only 1!


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## Rainman68 (Apr 29, 2011)

Guaranteed Hunt 234 has been changed to the entire month of May also.


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## QDMAMAN (Dec 8, 2004)

2020 Digest with changes!
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/Spring_Turkey_Digest_443091_7.pdf


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