# Sneak Boat/Layout Boat/Marsh Boat



## duckaddict (Sep 23, 2014)

Well I think I have made up my mind. By duck season next year I am going to have some type of boat. I'm tired of doing all of the work (scouting, weather watching, getting permission (or denied more often that not) etc) just to have people do it their own way and now I come home with two birds on opening weekend. So its time to move on and do it myself. End rant.

I am looking at the Four Rivers Boats, Carstens Mallard (or Pintail), or a Beavertail Stealth 2000. I would like to keep it somewhere in the $900 and $1300 range. I have found a few things I like about all of them, and a few things I don't like. Also, I know the Beavertail doesn't take a mud motor, but mght be interested in building my own mud motor with a kit. (or for the sake of the ole K.I.S.S. method, buy a 10hp longtail.)

If anyone has any personal experience with these (good and bad please!) and could give me a couple pointers to look out for, I would greatly appreciate it.


----------



## Prouder02 (Sep 10, 2014)

I got a carstens puddler, smaller than boats your looking at and is not motor compatible, but it gets me where the ducks are, pretty much a marsh layout boat. Ducks never know I'm there till it's too late. At only 10 ft and 70 lbs it's a one mans puddle duck killing machine!!


----------



## Jr.BowmanMI (Jun 27, 2005)

Going home with only 2 isn't always that bad.


----------



## duckaddict (Sep 23, 2014)

Jr.BowmanMI said:


> Going home with only 2 isn't always that bad.


Looks like you got two in one hunt. I hunted for 8 hours this weekend combined and came home with two birds haha


----------



## duckaddict (Sep 23, 2014)

Prouder02 said:


> I got a carstens puddler, smaller than boats your looking at and is not motor compatible, but it gets me where the ducks are, pretty much a marsh layout boat. Ducks never know I'm there till it's too late. At only 10 ft and 70 lbs it's a one mans puddle duck killing machine!!


How is the stability of it? I have a canoe now and stopped using it because of the instability so thats a big concern. Thanks for your insight.


----------



## Prouder02 (Sep 10, 2014)

way more stable than a canoe for sure. I've even shot standing up in it no problem.


----------



## Prouder02 (Sep 10, 2014)

thats my setup there, i just use a old boogie board as a back rest, lay down, and fire away!


----------



## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

For the price get a decent kayak, more then one use. If you are going to spend that kind of money you might as well have something that is easy to paddle and fish out of in the spring and summer.


----------



## duckaddict (Sep 23, 2014)

Jonesy...even a kayak makes me nervous sometimes. I'm a little "top heavy" so one wrong lean and I'm going over. With that being said, I haven't spent a lot of time in canoes or kayaks, so I'm sure if I used them more often, I would get more comfortable.

You don't think I could use the Carsten's for fishing too? If I buy a Carsten's I would buy a 6.5hp or 10hp longtail (if I can sell the wife on it).


----------



## Smallmouth Chaser (May 17, 2009)

I have a carstans pintail and it is an awesome boat. I use it in the marsh and use it as a layout boat if the big lake is calm enough. I built a blind and and have it grassed up. There pictures of it on my profile but I can not figure out how to post from my phone. It is also a pretty good river drift boat for fishing smallies or stealhead.


----------



## Jr.BowmanMI (Jun 27, 2005)

If you already have a canoe why not get used to it? I have a 17 ft canoe with 3 hp side saddle evinrude. Rode fine with 2. We had to paddle aways when picking up decoys and never felt unsteady. Just kneeled in bottom. Then you can spend your money on a 14ft Jon with mud motor. 




duckaddict said:


> Jonesy...even a kayak makes me nervous sometimes. I'm a little "top heavy" so one wrong lean and I'm going over. With that being said, I haven't spent a lot of time in canoes or kayaks, so I'm sure if I used them more often, I would get more comfortable.
> 
> You don't think I could use the Carsten's for fishing too? If I buy a Carsten's I would buy a 6.5hp or 10hp longtail (if I can sell the wife on it).





duckaddict said:


> Jonesy...even a kayak makes me nervous sometimes. I'm a little "top heavy" so one wrong lean and I'm going over. With that being said, I haven't spent a lot of time in canoes or kayaks, so I'm sure if I used them more often, I would get more comfortable.
> 
> You don't think I could use the Carsten's for fishing too? If I buy a Carsten's I would buy a 6.5hp or 10hp longtail (if I can sell the wife on it).


w


----------



## duckaddict (Sep 23, 2014)

Jr.BowmanMI said:


> If you already have a canoe why not get used to it? I have a 17 ft canoe with 3 hp side saddle evinrude. Rode fine with 2. We had to paddle aways when picking up decoys and never felt unsteady. Just kneeled in bottom. Then you can spend your money on a 14ft Jon with mud motor.
> 
> I have thought about doing that as well...but I think I am going to be hunting alone more often than not. Maybe I'll try kneeling in it and see if that makes it a little more stable. If I have all of my gear and another person it does pretty well, but I want something I feel comfortable in at 3am going through the middle of a lake.
> 
> ...


----------



## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

duckaddict said:


> Jonesy...even a kayak makes me nervous sometimes. I'm a little "top heavy" so one wrong lean and I'm going over. With that being said, I haven't spent a lot of time in canoes or kayaks, so I'm sure if I used them more often, I would get more comfortable.
> 
> You don't think I could use the Carsten's for fishing too? If I buy a Carsten's I would buy a 6.5hp or 10hp longtail (if I can sell the wife on it).


14.5 Native ultimate has a tunneled hull. I can stand up in mine, very sturdy and stable. The Carsten Pintail is nice but if you put a mud motor on it you loose some of the light weight factor, say if you need to drag it into some woody hole with a 100 to 200 yard walk through the woods. Sadly there is no perfect duck boat for everything as you are finding out.


----------



## Chris3912 (Sep 3, 2015)

If you can find a Lund Ducker that might be a good option for you. They are hard to come by, but are stable and can take a motor. I use a 12ft Jon it's fairly light weight to load in pickup and for the most part easy enough to pull over by myself. I built a mud motor with an SPS long tail kit and Predator motor from Harbor Freight. Total cost was under $700. It has opened up marsh hunting a bit more for me. As others said there is no perfect boat... My wife complains about my "fleet" of boats Jon boat, layout, and Lund tender. I just remind her of all the shoes and clothes she has lol


----------



## snowman (Jan 29, 2005)

By duck season next year I am going to have some type of boat.

This sorta indicates 1 (one) boat. So forget a layout unless you have a buddy with a tender. I'm a 3rd generation duck hunter and I have a lot of knowledge and experience. Sneak boats are ok, but if you are going to use it AS a sneak boat, 50% of the time ducks wont stay in the decoys and you end up doing a lot of work with no reward and are typically used on big open water, again AS a sneak boat. I'd skip it. A marsh boat is a good boat depending on how you hunt. If you hunt big water or with a buddy forget it unless you get a good sized one. I've got a nice little 12' for small ponds/lakes/flooded areas. IMO, kayaks and canoes are useless unless your in 3' of water or less. I've personally witness guys flipping both and a number of years ago had to rescue 2 guys on St. Clair that flipped a canoe. In November. If that's the case your better off with waders and a decoys sled.

Think about how you want to hunt and get a decent sized boat to suit your needs but be safe first.


----------



## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

snowman said:


> By duck season next year I am going to have some type of boat.
> 
> This sorta indicates 1 (one) boat. So forget a layout unless you have a buddy with a tender. I'm a 3rd generation duck hunter and I have a lot of knowledge and experience. Sneak boats are ok, but if you are going to use it AS a sneak boat, 50% of the time ducks wont stay in the decoys and you end up doing a lot of work with no reward and are typically used on big open water, again AS a sneak boat. I'd skip it. A marsh boat is a good boat depending on how you hunt. If you hunt big water or with a buddy forget it unless you get a good sized one. I've got a nice little 12' for small ponds/lakes/flooded areas. IMO, kayaks and canoes are useless unless your in 3' of water or less. I've personally witness guys flipping both and a number of years ago had to rescue 2 guys on St. Clair that flipped a canoe. In November. If that's the case your better off with waders and a decoys sled.
> 
> Think about how you want to hunt and get a decent sized boat to suit your needs but be safe first.


Yaks are not useless, with a decent open bow and a tunneled hull you get more stability then a canoe and can handle a bigger load. I will agree they are not for open water and if I do use mine in open water it is basically a giant jet sled in wadable conditions and that's it. As for dragging it into small lakes and such, I'll take my 14.5' yak over a jon boat any day, especially if dragging and pulling is involved.


----------



## duckaddict (Sep 23, 2014)

Snow- I do mostly all backwater marsh hunts, or sometimes hunt some "bigger" inland water towards late season. I am thinking a marsh boat, by way of your explanation, might be a pretty good fit for me...


----------



## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

I used to use a drab colored fishing kayak when marsh hunting, however, since I got a lab I needed something he fit in with me, so I went through this exact same analysis last spring. I looked at all the options and came to the conclusion that the Carstens Pintail was the best option for my pup and I, with mounting something like a 5hp with a longtail kit if I wanted. 

I ended up putting it on hold because I have a 16 ft river skiff with a 20hp jet engine (primary purpose is river fishing, but I have a beavertail boat blind brushed with raffia on it for duck hunting) and I decided to hold off one season to see how often I decide I wished I had the Pintail instead of just using my 16 ft skiff or just walking in with my jet sled (i.e., whether the Pintail overlapped those two options too much to make it an unnecessary purchase). Still haven't figured that out yet, but if I pull the trigger it will be the Pintail for sure. Knutsons had them for like $900. There's a guy that works at Carstens that is really helpful talking about which boats are good for each type of hunting, hunter and water, etc, he'll give you the ups and downs of each. I forget his name, but he was very helpful. 

Jonsey made a good point about the weight factor with the Pintail. You can put a Pintail in a truck bed, but they are way heavier than canoes (a nice Kevlar canoe (pricey) is about 35 lbs, your average RAM / poly kayak is about 60-70lbs, and the Pintail is about 100lbs with nothing on it). Once you put a motor on it, you're really starting to run into the "I think I need a trailer" issue, and that opens up a whole other can of worms. 100 lbs sounds light, but if you have to carry it anywhere in a spot that you can't drag it (i.e., on cement, for example) you're going to be bummin.


----------



## duckaddict (Sep 23, 2014)

Lamarsh said:


> I used to use a drab colored fishing kayak when marsh hunting, however, since I got a lab I needed something he fit in with me, so I went through this exact same analysis last spring. I looked at all the options and came to the conclusion that the Carstens Pintail was the best option for my pup and I, with mounting something like a 5hp with a longtail kit if I wanted.
> 
> I ended up putting it on hold because I have a 16 ft river skiff with a 20hp jet engine (primary purpose is river fishing, but I have a beavertail boat blind brushed with raffia on it for duck hunting) and I decided to hold off one season to see how often I decide I wished I had the Pintail instead of just using my 16 ft skiff or just walking in with my jet sled (i.e., whether the Pintail overlapped those two options too much to make it an unnecessary purchase). Still haven't figured that out yet, but if I pull the trigger it will be the Pintail for sure. Knutsons had them for like $900. There's a guy that works at Carstens that is really helpful talking about which boats are good for each type of hunting, hunter and water, etc, he'll give you the ups and downs of each. I forget his name, but he was very helpful.
> 
> Jonsey made a good point about the weight factor with the Pintail. You can put a Pintail in a truck bed, but they are way heavier than canoes (a nice Kevlar canoe (pricey) is about 35 lbs, your average RAM / poly kayak is about 60-70lbs, and the Pintail is about 100lbs with nothing on it). Once you put a motor on it, you're really starting to run into the "I think I need a trailer" issue, and that opens up a whole other can of worms. 100 lbs sounds light, but if you have to carry it anywhere in a spot that you can't drag it (i.e., on cement, for example) you're going to be bummin.


Thanks! Feel free to PM when you make up your mind! Haha. I just sold my truck, and now in the market for a junker. My wife has an Edge I will probably put a hitch on and buy a Tractor Supply landscape trailer to put a boat in. I think it will "get me through" until I can find a decent junker truck (if that makes any sense haha).


----------



## Jr.BowmanMI (Jun 27, 2005)

I am in the same boat (pun intended)... I currently drive a ford focus and have to haul my canoe around on a trailer.
Lamarsh, funny you mention Knutsons, I just moved down to Jackson and that's a pretty big name around here. 

Side note: I've been reading your post on the upland forum, sounds like your lab is doing well! 







duckaddict said:


> Thanks! Feel free to PM when you make up your mind! Haha. I just sold my truck, and now in the market for a junker. My wife has an Edge I will probably put a hitch on and buy a Tractor Supply landscape trailer to put a boat in. I think it will "get me through" until I can find a decent junker truck (if that makes any sense haha).


----------



## pikenetter (Mar 28, 2009)

i have a carsten pintail. great boat two guys and a full payload can go anywhere in it. i also have a 14ft john with a 13hp long tail. a 16ft deep v with 50hp for big diver hunting. you get the picture. eventually your going need all of them, lol it is a very exspensive addiction. i add to it everytime i can afford too.....


----------



## duckaddict (Sep 23, 2014)

pikenetter said:


> i have a carsten pintail. great boat two guys and a full payload can go anywhere in it. i also have a 14ft john with a 13hp long tail. a 16ft deep v with 50hp for big diver hunting. you get the picture. eventually your going need all of them, lol it is a very exspensive addiction. i add to it everytime i can afford too.....


I am leaning towards a Pintail or a jon boat at this point. Unless I can find a solid used jon boat, I am leaning towards that pintail. What made you go for the pintail vs. the mallard? A price difference of $30 gives you a little more room....Anyone want to sell a 14' jon boat? Haha.


----------



## pikenetter (Mar 28, 2009)

duckaddict said:


> I am leaning towards a Pintail or a jon boat at this point. Unless I can find a solid used jon boat, I am leaning towards that pintail. What made you go for the pintail vs. the mallard? A price difference of $30 gives you a little more room....Anyone want to sell a 14' jon boat? Haha.


i had a boat similar to the pintail that was stolen. it has many uses, i have deer hunted out of it. my 8 year old son and i do many float hunts out of it. i can throw it on top of my denali and go anywhere. fish out of it. its not tippy at all. two adults and all your gear and you can float in 6" water. a very versitle boat for the money. you can paddle into an area get out pull it up in the brush or cattials and no one knows your there.


----------



## duckaddict (Sep 23, 2014)

pikenetter said:


> i had a boat similar to the pintail that was stolen. it has many uses, i have deer hunted out of it. my 8 year old son and i do many float hunts out of it. i can throw it on top of my denali and go anywhere. fish out of it. its not tippy at all. two adults and all your gear and you can float in 6" water. a very versitle boat for the money. you can paddle into an area get out pull it up in the brush or cattials and no one knows your there.


Can you put a motor on it? I would like to build a 8hp glider kit mud motor...


----------



## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

pikenetter said:


> i have a carsten pintail. great boat two guys and a full payload can go anywhere in it. ..


That is good to know. Could you share with us whether you think two guys plus a dog and decoys (12-18) could fit in that Pintail? I was considering getting one under the assumption that I'd be maxed out with just myself, my pup and 12-18 deeks, but if I knew I could cram another dude in there without causing much trouble (slight discomfort isn't the end of the world), I'd pull the trigger on it.


----------



## pikenetter (Mar 28, 2009)

Lamarsh said:


> That is good to know. Could you share with us whether you think two guys plus a dog and decoys (12-18) could fit in that Pintail? I was considering getting one under the assumption that I'd be maxed out with just myself, my pup and 12-18 deeks, but if I knew I could cram another dude in there without causing much trouble (slight discomfort isn't the end of the world), I'd pull the trigger on it.


 i have had two adults, my 8 year old, with a dozen dekes and our gear, and we had no problem rowing it in and out of the marsh. we use paddles but it does have oar locks built into it. i like to hunt with others so i always have to have somehting that holds at least two people.


----------



## pikenetter (Mar 28, 2009)

pikenetter said:


> i have had two adults, my 8 year old, with a dozen dekes and our gear, and we had no problem rowing it in and out of the marsh. we use paddles but it does have oar locks built into it. i like to hunt with others so i always have to have somehting that holds at least two people.


----------



## duckbuster0123 (Jan 31, 2013)

I picked up a 13' flat bottom boat over the summer off craigslist for $80. It wasn't pretty and still needs some work but it will get ducks. When you do buy something it doesn't always have to be brand new to get the ducks, or even cost and arm and a leg. I ve owned just about every rig you can think of out there and some of my best hunts where out of a 12' fishing boat. I like the 12'-14' they are real versatile and a lil more stable than a canoe or kayak. Plus you can put a nice motor on it and lakes rivers marshes and even management areas. Just my two cents thought I'd chime in. Good luck with your season and your search.


----------



## duckaddict (Sep 23, 2014)

duckbuster0123 said:


> I picked up a 13' flat bottom boat over the summer off craigslist for $80. It wasn't pretty and still needs some work but it will get ducks. When you do buy something it doesn't always have to be brand new to get the ducks, or even cost and arm and a leg. I ve owned just about every rig you can think of out there and some of my best hunts where out of a 12' fishing boat. I like the 12'-14' they are real versatile and a lil more stable than a canoe or kayak. Plus you can put a nice motor on it and lakes rivers marshes and even management areas. Just my two cents thought I'd chime in. Good luck with your season and your search.


My options are open for sure. I would like a used Carsten's but can't find them anywhere which tells me...they last a long time and people like em. I wouldn't mind a jon boat and I am looking every night on the classifieds for that "$80" deal if you will. Would love a 14' though.


----------



## Smallmouth Chaser (May 17, 2009)

Carsten's Pintail with HS weed kit




__
Smallmouth Chaser


__
Nov 6, 2012








I have transported two 6'5" hunters in my pintail before but would not recommend it, I am sure we were pushing the load limit. I have paddled 3 dozen diver decoys and my lab in my boat before also and the boat worked pretty well so a dozen decoys and a couple small guys is doable. 

I built the blind to marsh hunt grass flats in places that the low profile is the only way to go. The blind doors fold open and make it a little easier to haul stuff. I tow it behind my 14fter and use it to carry the big diver spread. Even with the grass blind it works pretty good as a layout boat, although I do really watch the waves and stay closer to shore than I would with a true layout boat. The Pintail is an awesome boat.


----------



## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

http://www.countylineboats.com/


----------



## duckaddict (Sep 23, 2014)

Can you put a motor on the pintail?


----------



## 2shorthairs (Oct 24, 2011)

I have a four rivers. It is a little heavy( a little over 100 lbs. if I remember right.) Other than that it is by far the most used boat in my arsenal. I have a 4 HP. Merc I put on the back and use it for marsh hunting or as a layout on bigger inland lakes.check it out on YouTube they are extremely stable. I love it!!!


----------



## duckaddict (Sep 23, 2014)

Thanks to everyone for their advice and experience. Really glad we have a resource to rely on! 

My only problem now is getting it past the wife. Easier to get forgiveness than it is permission right?!?!?


----------



## allskater08 (Mar 27, 2004)

I just got a MOmarsh DP Fatboy with a 6.5 hp longtail on it......it's pretty sweet. Might be more than you're looking to spend though. I will say it's very stable and super comfortable to hunt out of. Only needs 4 inches of water fully loaded too.


----------



## fowlme (Jun 19, 2009)

allskater08 said:


> I just got a MOmarsh DP Fatboy with a 6.5 hp longtail on it......it's pretty sweet. Might be more than you're looking to spend though. I will say it's very stable and super comfortable to hunt out of. Only needs 4 inches of water fully loaded too.


I have been looking at those. Did you buy the package deal through Cabelas?


----------



## allskater08 (Mar 27, 2004)

fowlme said:


> I have been looking at those. Did you buy the package deal through Cabelas?


I didn't. I happened to find one on craigslist with a long tail motor and a trailer for less than what I would have paid for the setup new. It needs some new straps on the deck cover but that can be done quite cheaply. I didn't see many used ones for sale at all when I was looking. I hunted out of it yesterday and today on Lake Huron and it was definitely rough out there but it took the waves like a champ and even with no cover birds didn't seem to mind it.


----------



## Bighunther (Jan 28, 2012)

jonesy16 said:


> 14.5 Native ultimate has a tunneled hull. I can stand up in mine, very sturdy and stable. The Carsten Pintail is nice but if you put a mud motor on it you loose some of the light weight factor, say if you need to drag it into some woody hole with a 100 to 200 yard walk through the woods. Sadly there is no perfect duck boat for everything as you are finding out.


Love my ultimate, very stable compared to most kayaks and canoes I've been in. Also the seat is very nice and comfortable. 

I used to hunt out of a sportspal for a few years (before it was stolen) and we could loaf as much gear as we wanted and two guys into it and it was still very stable.


----------



## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

I have a Carsten's Mallard and use it almost everyday.

A little deeper than the Pintail, wider, more stable. I added a motor mount and lined the bottom with 3/8 closed cell foam to cut noise.. 
I can climb over the side in deep water and not roll it. I weigh 220.
I use it laying out on Saginaw Bay.
I row it on river drifts.
It weighs about 100lbs unloaded.
The only other alternative I'd consider is a Grumman Sport Pal square stern'ed canoe.

Just yesterday I took Myself, an 80lb dog, a 250lb guy, 2 canoe paddles, 3 doz decoys, Mojo w/stand, guns, shells, jackets, etc. on a mile paddle through a duckweed choked marsh. And then hid it all in the cattails.

Easy, and no problem.

I'd say it's a more versatile choice than the Pintail.

Gonna float the Muskegon monday. It is very stealthy.


----------



## duckaddict (Sep 23, 2014)

Gamekeeper said:


> I have a Carsten's Mallard and use it almost everyday.
> 
> A little deeper than the Pintail, wider, more stable. I added a motor mount and lined the bottom with 3/8 closed cell foam to cut noise..
> I can climb over the side in deep water and not roll it. I weigh 220.
> ...



I think you just sold me...how big of a motor do you have on it?


----------

