# U.P. Bear Guides



## hubbarj

The CFA landowners are getting sick and tired of this commercializing also. You are going to see more of this going on in the very near future. It is too bad for the guys that have booked hunts with guides that have chosen to ignore the law. They are probably going to end up on the short end of the stick. I am upset that the DNR chose to let it go this route. If they would have stepped up and got things under control when it was brought to their attention the CFA landowners would have had to take things into their own hands. I am glad to see that sporthunters will have at least some areas to hunt without deal with large commercial operations, not to mention maybe the bear numbers will improve.


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## Rooster Cogburn

For those who do not understand what a cease-and-desist-order is:

It is basically a letter of intent which can be issued by the CFA landowner, or a governmental agency...like MDNR. It is a legal notification warning the individual to immediately stop operating their guiding business on the land or they will be sued. Actually, with MDNR being responsible for CFA enforcement once notified by the CFA landowner, commercial baiting is being conducted without any sort of permission, and the individual fore warned...MDNR should have issued the cease-and-desist-order and done their damn job instead of making childish excuses.


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## chingescook

Maby CFA lands should have the rules changed to follow the same hunting rules as public land. Some of the money that is lost in tax dollars from CFA property could be made up by the extra license fees.
All we need are more laws and rules that cant be inforced. Watch the guide fees go up. 
Some poor guy who carries bait into the woods for a few bucks should hardly be classified as a guide. The issue is with the land owner, the guide, and the law. Who pissed in your granola? anyway I heard a rooster crow.


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## Rooster Cogburn

Ching, 

Apparently you are not aware of state statutes and regulations relating to commercializing on public land...CFA, state, and federal. 

Is there some reason you feel operations...some grossing between $40,000 to $60,000 in 6 weeks (during the Michigan bear season) operating on public or CFA land should be exempt from regulations which apply to all business' in Michigan? Or do you feel an exception should be made at the state level allowing these business' to operate without tax oversight so you will not have to worry about an increase in the guide fees. Incidently, the issue is not directed at individuals guiding a couple hunters...its is directed at those large operations with several employees laying claim to too much public land for business purposes.


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## chingescook

Doctors, Lawyers, Auto Mech., Hair Dressers, Realestate sales persons and brokers. and by being licensed and regulated by the state are all quality businesses. Yea Right. Many businesses do not require a license to operate and do quite well. What kind questions would you ask on the bear guide exam and how many must one get correct in order to obtain a license. Or would a permit to bait bear on public land be more realistic? 
We are all required to file tax returns as should any guide licensed or not.


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## Rooster Cogburn

Ching, I favor a guide's license along with regulations and recommendations by the Bear Counciltation Team requiring compliance of all state and federal regulations, CPR & First Aide certified, a surety bond, liability insurance, a monitoring fee, and a fee schedule (the larger the operation the fee increases accordingly). Might surprise you, but these requirements are already reguired for a State Land Use Permit for guiding on state land in Michigan. It was written into law July 9, 2005. NRC is required to oversee it is carried out. MDNR is currently in denial on this one...big embarrassment for MDNR is lurking.

On the subject of baiting permits...I favor Michigan requiring a permit to bait with 3 tags issued per permit holder.
It...for the first time...would allow effective enforcement of baiting regulations.

Quick question for you Ching....Idaho only has 140 registered guides in the entire state. How many do you think Michigan should have?


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## chingescook

Leave that one up to Keith and the rest of the NRC to make that call.


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## engin_eddie

I bear hunted must have been 12+ years ago with a gentleman that lived in Bruce Crossing. I think his name was Al Pletski or something. Anyone know the name? I thought he ran a great service, don't know if he does it anymore.


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## Rooster Cogburn

Ching, we are in agreement, "we are all required to file taxes as should any guide licensed or not." 

Seeing as guiding is a cash business there is literally no money trail. So, under the current mismanagement by MDNR there is no oversight on income. Are you in favor of guiding operations enoying a tax free-zone on our public land?


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## mihunter

engin_eddie said:


> I bear hunted must have been 12+ years ago with a gentleman that lived in Bruce Crossing. I think his name was Al Pletski or something. Anyone know the name? I thought he ran a great service, don't know if he does it anymore.


Al Platzke, hunted with him in 05, would use him again when I draw.


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## chingescook

Many hunting guests pay by check and some are corp entertainment tax deductable so you can bet there is a paper trail.


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## Rooster Cogburn

Ching, you're groping (defined as: acting uncertainly). Now I get it. You're part of MDNR's legal team. They grope because they can.


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## welldriller_old

chingescook said:


> Many hunting guests pay by check and some are corp entertainment tax deductable so you can bet there is a paper trail.


Not just corporate. Any small business can do this.


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## chingescook

Right On Welldriller.


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