# Fly Guy, Crank/Skein Guy, CYP Guy



## salmonfreak05 (Sep 13, 2009)

Well here is my honest thoughts and opinions on Salmon Fishing. I see both arguments of this issue and I'm quite bored too. So with that said I don't need any name calling and people being called out, and I'm sure the locals on this site will be all revved up.

My opinion is there are 3 types of Salmon Fisherman. Fly guys, Crank/Skein guys, and yes CYP guys "Cast Yank and Pull". However, each one is different in many ways. I have no problem with *ANY *of these three types of fisherman. We all have our arguments and dislikes with each of these. I know I sure do. 


What is Ethical? What is Unethical? What is the right way? What is the wrong way? Many topics and arguments arise from ethics. I mean I have witnessed all *three* types of fisherman foul hook their share of fish. Of course the intentions of foul hooking may be different but I've seen as many fly guys foul hook as much as I've seen CYP's. However I realize that it is possible to legally catch and hook a fish in the mouth or in the head (attempted to strike). But let's face it, of all the fisherman that the Salmon run's attract, *Most* "safe to say" people are there foul hooking fish. Especially around the time of Late September and Early October. It's part of it, and can't deny that, but unfortunately some are worse than others, and some may be over exhibiting. With Spiders, or down shotting, etc. It is these types of people that cause the ruckus! 

This is going to be my 10th year salmon fishing and 4th year fishing legally. I have converted, but you can bet that the amount of hookups is not near the same as "illegal methods". I don't have the luxury of being a local, I don't have the luxury of being able to use a guide service "yet,saving pennies for one" , or get a boat where I can increase my chances of catching them by escaping to the mouths or lakes. I get it, I know, *Ive seen it and I respect the HELL out of the guys that have converted and catch them legally*. But you can bet I still love salmon fishing as much as I did when I first started, even though the amount of fish caught is not even remotely close. But hey its the legal way,and I feel better about myself, and I know I have earned that fish! 

But I believe there can be a law changing that allows certain motions to purposely snag fish, but can also be restricted by gear requirements and stipulations, with changes to fish limits, or putting a snagging season in place. But no matter what there will always be the ones that agree and those that disagree. 

And I know issues of Non targeted fish such as browns, smallies, etc, will be foul hooked, but that's part of it, and its part of fishing. I am big bass fisherman and foul hooking fish happens more than what one can think. I have foul hooked a snapping turtle on a 7' power worm texas rig. I mean it happens. 

But the state also makes a great chunk of money from the ones they do get snagging so its a win win either way for the state. 

Thank you, Again not trying to piss people off, just stating my true opinion. Good luck to all this Salmon Season and enjoy it, cause I know I sure do!  It should almost be considered a highly contagious disease not a fever! :chillin::corkysm55:xzicon_sm


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

It's official, Salmon season is quickly approaching.


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## piscatorial warrior (Sep 14, 2011)

I'LL SAY ONE THING MY FRIEND, YOU HAVE SOME COJONES POSTING THAT THREAD! GOOD THING CHUCKY IS NO LONGER AROUND! I TOO AM TIRED OF ALL THE BICKERING THAT GOES ON THIS TIME OF YEAR.YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE ON HERE WHO CONSTANTLY MAKE FUN OF THOSE WHO CATCH AND KEEP FALL SALMON. " YOU CAN HAVE THOSE NASTY BLACK SKANKY FISH " THOSE SEEM TO BE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO WILL SAY IN ANOTHER THREAD " THOSE SALMON ARE A NOBLE FISH AND SHOUKLD BE RESPECTED AND RELEASED " I THINK MANY PEOPLE ARE MISSING 1 VERY IMPORTANT FACT. THOSE FISH WERE INTRODUCED INTO OUR ECOSYSTEM FOR 1THING AND 1 THING ONLY: TO BE CAUGHT BY FISHERMEN. THEY ARE NOT ENDANGERED. THEY ARE NOT THREATENED. IF YOU RELEASE A SALMON TODAY IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A GIFT TO SOME OTHER FISHERMAN NEXT YEAR.NATURAL REPRODUCTION IS SUPPLIMENTED BY MASSIVE PLANTS. NOW I DO NOT WANT A RETURN TO THE 'BAD OLD DAYS' WITH LEGIONS OF DRUNK SLOBS WIELDING M-60S TRASHING OUR RIVERS, BUT HOW 'BOUT TAKING IT EASY ON THE 'CATCH AND KEEP' GUYS? I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE FLOSSERS. THOSE FISH ARE HOOKED IN THE MOUTH LIKE THE RULES DICTATE SO WHO CARES?THEY'RE JUST NASTY BLACK SKANKS ANYWAY. RIGHT?:gaga:


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

I wish I could have every second back where I've been involved in the fly v. bait issues, the snagging issues, etc, in the past. 

One day you just wake up and think, "who cares?" 

Really, that's where I'm at. I care about the fisheries and the resource, but to sit here and argue over this method or that method year after year is just pointless. I'd rather be the practice dummy for a room full of medical students practicing prostrate exams than sit here caring if someone is lining fish or not lining fish or keeping fish or...or...or...


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## salmonfreak05 (Sep 13, 2009)

Like I said I was bored! Probably like TC was with his thread. lol


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## Fly_Guy (Apr 28, 2012)

Which one am I? 

Snag'em in the lips!:evil:


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## Queequeg (Aug 10, 2007)

Not trying to fire anyone up, but what If the state allowed snagging in certain stretches of rivers or select rivers? Limit it to rivers with no natural reproduction and keep it illegal at other stretches/rivers. Maybe legalize snagging at dams 1/2 mile down but not in mid or lower stretches. I don't snag intentionally but have foul hooked a fair share. Maybe opening up areas to legal snagging will give everyone their niche. Then increase fines for snagging in illegal areas. 

Let's face it snagging will always continue and the co's aren't going to be able to stop it. If they only focused on other parts of rivers or other rivers then maybe there would be less problems. 


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

Queequeg said:


> Not trying to fire anyone up, but what If the state allowed snagging in certain stretches of rivers or select rivers? Limit it to rivers with no natural reproduction and keep it illegal at other stretches/rivers. Maybe legalize snagging at dams 1/2 mile down but not in mid or lower stretches. I don't snag intentionally but have foul hooked a fair share. Maybe opening up areas to legal snagging will give everyone their niche. Then increase fines for snagging in illegal areas.
> 
> Let's face it snagging will always continue and the co's aren't going to be able to stop it. If they only focused on other parts of rivers or other rivers then maybe there would be less problems.
> 
> ...


To play Devil's Advocate, that's a fair question. I mean, hypothetically, there are areas that are conducive to a cash for yanked a** program. Ludington State Park, Harrisville...both are access sites where they could double up the fees at such a time and cash in. 

Like I said, I'm not condoning anything or supporting anything, but you asked a question that has some degree of debate potential.


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## FishKilla419 (Feb 22, 2008)

Make spot a and b legal to snag and they will still snag everywhere...


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

everyone knows where i stand. with the labor day weekend approaching i will be in a area with much less pressure but fewer fish. might take a day to head to a popular river. last year i did, got right between two groups of fly fisherman which had a bit of a twitch. sat and waited. fish would drop down and up into my run from being spooked. i just sat and watched, once they settled i would run spawn amd hit some fish. get out the spinners and hit a fish or too. repeated the process throughout the day. caught a lot of fish. even a bonus skam which was delicious.

just a point...the reason salmom were planted is to eat the alewives that were overrunning the lake...the fishery was a biproduct.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

btw...im getting to the point of not caring also. it is what it is. just kinda bothers me seeing lrbs resident trout and steelies impaled with trebles. i do believe everyone who has salmon fished has foul hooked fish at one point, whether intentionally or not. let the game begin!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Waz_51 (Jan 10, 2010)

Queequeg said:


> Not trying to fire anyone up, but what If the state allowed snagging in certain stretches of rivers or select rivers? Limit it to rivers with no natural reproduction and keep it illegal at other stretches/rivers. Maybe legalize snagging at dams 1/2 mile down but not in mid or lower stretches. I don't snag intentionally but have foul hooked a fair share. Maybe opening up areas to legal snagging will give everyone their niche. Then increase fines for snagging in illegal areas.
> 
> Let's face it snagging will always continue and the co's aren't going to be able to stop it. If they only focused on other parts of rivers or other rivers then maybe there would be less problems.
> 
> ...



i also feel that this is a credible thing to debate because the salmon that are planted make those runs up the river and die...they dont reproduce naturally so why not let them go to good use? i agree that it would have to be restricted to small areas...i am not a snagger, i do things the right way because i am aspiring to become a CO myself...however, i would not shed a single tear if something like this were legalized!


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## salmo'dog (Aug 24, 2007)

Waz_51 said:


> because the salmon that are planted make those runs up the river and die...they dont reproduce naturally so why not let them go to good use!


You sticking by this statement???


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## mp2008 (Oct 20, 2011)

Waz_51 said:


> i also feel that this is a credible thing to debate because the salmon that are planted make those runs up the river and die...they dont reproduce naturally so why not let them go to good use? i agree that it would have to be restricted to small areas...i am not a snagger, i do things the right way because i am aspiring to become a CO myself...however, i would not shed a single tear if something like this were legalized!


Actually, Salmon naturally reproduce really well in MI river/stream waters, especially when compared to WI waters and apparently well enough to cut back stocking in Michigan by over 65% and 50% overall for Lake MI. And from what I hear the Alewife population has dropped more then expected which is part of the reason they are cutting back on stocking.


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## Waz_51 (Jan 10, 2010)

i guess i shouldve been a little more specific...i know that a good portion of the population does not reproduce but there are ones that do, im just not aware of how proficient the natural reproducers are! however, this does not take away from the fact that they do eventually die and if there is a stretch of river that is known to have a population that does NOT reproduce naturally then Queequeg's suggestion has some weight


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## Waz_51 (Jan 10, 2010)

if there is no way to distinguish whether they're natural reproducers or not then this suggestion isnt even considerable


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

the pm, betsie,white and little man arent planted. how do you explain those runs? the manistee and muskegon also have a lot od natural reproduction. the grand and joe probably not so much, and the king runs suck. the harbor plants usually return to the harbor and rot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OH-YEAH!!! (Jun 18, 2009)

The only thing I know about river salmon:

They're fun to catch.

They taste like flavorless mush.

They give the fly shops in Baldwin as serious spike in revenue including a shop owned by a friend.

The salmon are good for business, fun to catch and their eggs make for the best trout fishing of the year.

Snagging shouldn't be allowed. Otherwise, who gives a crap how you catch them. 

They are fun to catch and my most memorable fish of 2010 was a 5 lb chrome jack king at Pines Point that smashed a wooly bugger and dragged me up and down the river on four runs. It came off as it was being led to a gravel bed. I still am in awe of that fish.


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

thousandcasts said:


> To play Devil's Advocate, that's a fair question. I mean, hypothetically, there are areas that are conducive to a cash for yanked a** program. Ludington State Park, Harrisville...both are access sites where they could double up the fees at such a time and cash in.
> 
> Like I said, I'm not condoning anything or supporting anything, but you asked a question that has some degree of debate potential.


I agree, open up Ludington state park to snagging, charge a permit and go.


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

salmo'dog said:


> You sticking by this statement???
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Holy cow---You ARE alive!!! I thought the 'Dog had dropped off the face of the earth!


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

Steelheadfred said:


> I agree, open up Ludington state park to snagging, charge a permit and go.


Well, at least then they'd make something off snaggers, since contrary to popular belief, they don't make $$$ from writing tickets. That money goes to the local courts not the DNR coffers, so...yeah, double up the fee at LSP and make some coin for a month.


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## salmo'dog (Aug 24, 2007)

thousandcasts said:


> Holy cow---You ARE alive!!! I thought the 'Dog had dropped off the face of the earth!


Dropping in to see the fall madness unfold!


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## piscatorial warrior (Sep 14, 2011)

Trout King said:


> everyone knows where i stand. with the labor day weekend approaching i will be in a area with much less pressure but fewer fish. might take a day to head to a popular river. last year i did, got right between two groups of fly fisherman which had a bit of a twitch. sat and waited. fish would drop down and up into my run from being spooked. i just sat and watched, once they settled i would run spawn amd hit some fish. get out the spinners and hit a fish or too. repeated the process throughout the day. caught a lot of fish. even a bonus skam which was delicious.
> 
> just a point...the reason salmom were planted is to eat the alewives that were overrunning the lake...the fishery was a biproduct.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 I'd say that pesky alewife problem is solved. So why the continued plants?


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

piscatorial warrior said:


> I'd say that pesky alewife problem is solved. So why the continued plants?


To kill the perch. It's a conspiracy, ya know?


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## diztortion (Sep 6, 2009)

Trout King said:


> the pm, betsie,white and little man arent planted. how do you explain those runs? the manistee and muskegon also have a lot od natural reproduction. the grand and joe probably not so much, and the king runs suck. the harbor plants usually return to the harbor and rot.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Little Manistee is planted.. 400k strong.


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

When you think about it, this poll is flawed since there's different sub classes that fit into each of the three mentioned. For example: 

The Creeper: This is the guy who wants to fish where you're fishing, but instead of low holing you, he parks above you. You never hear, you never actually see it, but his boat actually creeps down closer to yours as the morning goes on. 

Hawkeye: Hawkeye spends more time looking around at what other people are doing and doesn't pay attention to what he's doing. His bobber may drop a dozen times, but he thinks there's no fish around because he was too busy watching downstream and not his bobber. 

Panic Button: Panic Button and Hawkeye usually tie in together. Panic Button is the guy who may be 200 yards up river but lifts anchor as soon as he sees you hook a fish and tries to high tail it down river to squeeze in around you. When he sees somebody else hook a fish, he repeats the process. Also known as Gas Burner. 

Lunch Break: Lunch break is different because he has some degree of patience. He wants to fish where you're fishing but is respectful enough to anchor away from you and then sit back, have lunch and patiently wait for you to vacate the spot. Sometimes he may offer some friendly conversation. Lunch Break is hard to recognize at first, but once you do realize then the appropriate response should be, "I hope you brought dinner too cuz I'm not leaving this spot!" 

The Stalker: This is the guy who sees you catching some fish in a spot, then he watches your actions for a couple days to see how early you're getting out of bed. He then learns to get up a half hour earlier. 

Demolition Derby: This is what happens when The Stalker realizes you got up earlier than normal and he hits the Panic Button to jump in the boat and beat you to the spot that he didn't even know about until he saw you fishing it. You respond by saying something that involves bad words at a loud volume and then because it's early and you haven't had enough coffee, you then race with him and take out his boat if needed in order to secure your spot. See also Insurance Claim. 

There's more, but you get the point....


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## limpinglogan (Sep 23, 2009)

After getting shut down last weekend by fish with lock jaw I think I see where snaggers get their motivation.

BUT...

I have no interest in catching those fish any other way then having them smashing a plug/spoon/spinner.....or maybe on skein under a bobber.

I don't get the point of snagging...I don't really want them to eat or anything... so why?!?

Last year I came across a guy at my favorite spot with a 2oz sinker and a giant treble...he told me they weren't biting...haha...is that fun for him?!?


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## diztortion (Sep 6, 2009)

limpinglogan said:


> Last year I came across a guy at my favorite spot with a 2oz sinker and a giant treble...he told me they weren't biting...haha...is that fun for him?!?


You should have seen what the rivers looked like back when snagging was legal.

Some people must have fun with it.


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## steely74 (Feb 9, 2010)

Snaggers are a poor excuse of a fisherman. Its not that kings don't bite its that they all just suck at fishing. Every legally caught fish they see just pisses them of more. What a sad existence it must be running up and down the river chasing beat up kings waving a yellow rod in the air. Just like an old man waving his fist at some young punks. :lol:

I wished more people just learned how to fish instead of being poaching D-bags. If the highlight of your fall is reeling in tail hooked salmon you should consider :banghead3 and  and then maybe you can knock some sense back in to yourself...


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

Coming to Tippy...this fall!!!


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

More...

Town Cryer: Pretty self explanatory. He's like the Paul Revere of the internet. He has a smart phone...it's always in the boat so he can update his FB page from right on the water! 

Decepticon: This what every angler should strive to be. The Decepticon will never say where he caught fish and if he does, it's vague. As in, if he caught his fish four miles upriver, he tells you "the harbor." For specific spots, it's always "uh...not sure...the one with the tree by it." 

Helen Keller: He don't say nothin'. 

Brokeback River: These guys are cute. They're ones that have the matching jackets, the matching rods and reels and the side of their boat has more gear stickers than a NASCAR driver. They might even go the extra mile and have something like "Saugatuck Stream Team" emblazoned on the matching jackets. 

King Dick: You are beneath him. When he motors by, he's got the chest puffed out and he won't even look at you or acknowledge your presence. This is his river and you're just an annoyance. You are required to gaze in awe as he motors by. Don't speak or say anything...he never gave you permission to do that. Just stare...that's what he wants. 

Attention Deficit Disorder: A.D.D. for short--as in, "he doesn't get enough attention at home." When he hooks a fish...or a log...he wants you and everyone within five hundred yards to know about it. No need to ask what he's using...he'll tell you what he's using...loudly. If it's a slow day, it's the DNR's fault. If you hook 10 and he only hooks one, he'll still tell you what you're doing wrong. 

:evil:


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

diztortion said:


> Little Manistee is planted.. 400k strong.


thanks for making me look like a fool! gosh,lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samsteel (Oct 6, 2008)

lol...decepticon. love it. what do you call the guy that uses 8lb leader because he thinks the kings are line shy and chases fish up and down the river because he is undergunned, meanwhile driving over everyone else's hole, only to end up breaking the fish off, then hustling back up to his spot to repeat the process all over again?


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## Waz_51 (Jan 10, 2010)

a f*#@ing [email protected]*t, thats what!


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

samsteel said:


> lol...decepticon. love it. what do you call the guy that uses 8lb leader because he thinks the kings are line shy and chases fish up and down the river because he is undergunned, meanwhile driving over everyone else's hole, only to end up breaking the fish off, then hustling back up to his spot to repeat the process all over again?


Dick Swan.


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

Can't forget this one:

E.T. -- He's the one who has to "call home" four times in a one day trip with the guys. If his wife/girlfriend/fiance calls, he actually answers the phone. If she doesn't, he'll call her just to say "hi!" He's also the one who will say the following on an internet fishing board for everyone to read: 

_"Hey guys, got permission from the wife to head up fishing this weekend...anyone know where the action is good? I wanna make the most of it, ya know?" _

Now, if you read something like that and the ONLY thing that jumps out at you is, "damn trolls...askin' for handouts!" then YOU'RE also an E.T. 

I remember when I was a teen ager and I got to go along on one of my dad and his buddies two week grouse hunting camping trips up in the U.P. As soon as we got to a party store in Newberry, the other three guys run over and line up at the pay phone so they could call home and let the wives know they made it OK. What followed was one of the best bits of wisdom my father has ever imparted on me. 

Teen Hutch: "What about you...you gonna call mom and let her know we're up here?" 

Dad Hutch: "Nah, no need...if anything happens to us the state police will get ahold of her."


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## steely74 (Feb 9, 2010)

Trout King said:


> thanks for making me look like a fool! gosh,lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't feel bad my buddy did the same thing to me about a few of those rivers as well as Diztortion lol... I don't remember where I got my info from but either some of it was wrong or I got salmon and steelhead plantings mixed up. Either way it is good stuff to research...


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## salmo'dog (Aug 24, 2007)

thousandcasts said:


> Dick Swan.


Awesome response!


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## jrv (Nov 11, 2008)

thousandcasts said:


> Can't forget this one:
> 
> 
> Teen Hutch: "What about you...you gonna call mom and let her know we're up here?"
> ...


That's awesome!


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## steely74 (Feb 9, 2010)

I think you forgot one Hutch: 

The Leech: Won't shut the hell up and keeps asking questions trying to suck out info. Questions everything you do and then announces it to everyone. They are persistent even when they know you don't want them around...


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