# Keeping Pike to help panfish



## kcfishin (Nov 12, 2003)

What is your opinion of keeping pike to help the panfish population? I am conflicted. The lake i fish is private and has a ton of small perch. I've caught probably 300 this year with none over 7.5 inches and most under 6 inches. Not a keeper gill yet either. Lake is several hundred acres and I've fished all over it. 

There are a lot of pike and the general consensus of others is to start keeping all legal pike and getting them out of the lake. Evidently it was a decent perch lake before pike were introduced, but I don't know the history.

I always tended to think the pike kept eating the small ones to help the lake from getting stunted from overpopulation.

Is it more complicated, am I oversimplifying this?


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## boomer_x7 (Dec 19, 2008)

If too many pike were the problem, wouldnt they eat the lake dead and then starve themselves?


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## pickle252 (Dec 24, 2013)

Keeping the pike to stop stunted gills and perch doesn't make sense. I am with you on the though that the pike will eat the smaller ones and help the population


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## taizer (Feb 6, 2009)

Most of what you hear from the locals on those small lakes is almost always ******** especially if it deals with fish. Most of those guys will throw fish on the ice crappie, gills, pike, bass, whatever just because they have theories on how fish population works. 
I would let nature take its course, if they are eating all the fish you cant do anything about it unless you can kill every pike in the lake. And once you do you will overpopulate all the perch and smaller fish, that means smaller fish, not all fish will get a good supply of food. 
Im sure the bass eat as many perch too


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## jailbait (Jan 22, 2015)

I think the pike eat the larger gills first, because they don't wanna chase after several small fish when they can just eat an 8 incher. So in the end you end up with a lake with lots of small panfish fish in it.


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## maddiedog (Nov 21, 2008)

jailbait said:


> I think the pike eat the larger gills first, because they don't wanna chase after several small fish when they can just eat an 8 incher. So in the end you end up with a lake with lots of small panfish fish in it.


Almost every pike I clean unless it's much larger has multiple small bait in their stomachs.


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## jimbo (Dec 29, 2007)

jailbait said:


> I think the pike eat the larger gills first, because they don't wanna chase after several small fish when they can just eat an 8 incher. So in the end you end up with a lake with lots of small panfish fish in it.


Naw, not buying that.
let the pikes go. better yet, don't even target them for a few years.
& I'd bet the pike were always there. It just a wierd cycle your lake is going thu


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## kmonty (Aug 26, 2009)

Pike are the best tasting fresh water fish, keep them and eat them!


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

Too many small fish is indicative of there not being enough big pike to keep the panfish population in balance with the available panfish food.


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## JimJim (Jan 4, 2012)

I've seen many good perch lakes turn this way. I'm a fisheries biologist and it isn't the predators, it's the zebra mussels. As perch grow, a specific food [a certain type of plankton for example] is needed for them to reach the next growth stage. The zebras are filtering this food source out of the water. In-Fisherman ran a similar article several years ago.


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## d_rek (Nov 6, 2013)

taizer said:


> Most of what you hear from the locals on those small lakes is almost always ******** especially if it deals with fish. Most of those guys will throw fish on the ice crappie, gills, pike, bass, whatever just because they have theories on how fish population works.


Thank you! Unless you are a marine biologist and have studied the ecology of LSC and the great lakes you probably have no idea what they hell you're talking about :lol:


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## WELDINGROD (Oct 11, 2009)

without doing an actual study using the DNR's system (netting fish and using a percentage, etc) my best guess is that there are not enough predators to weed out the smaller fish allowing some to get bigger... aka a stunted lake. This is very common on inland lakes you see it with bluegill and perch, not enough foot base for them to get bigger within the same timespan as other lakes. Overabundance of small fish keeps them all smaller, where within a 2 year lifespan if they were able to eat more they would be much larger. 

Not saying I know this is the case on your lake... but it is a possibility (a study would confirm). If that was the case then stocking the lake with more pike, walleye, etc would actually help.

I always thought it would be better to fish private lakes vs. public due to fishing pressure, but many private lakes are stunted because they are not stocked with walleye/pike by the DNR. Public lakes that are stocked with predators, in many cases have larger panfish vs. some private lakes I fish, and higher numbers of larger panfish. (talking inland lakes in all cases, not saying you are approaching the great lakes just better than some private inland lakes).


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## jailbait (Jan 22, 2015)

Im an arm chair biologist and whatever I say is the gospel 8-/


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## jimbo (Dec 29, 2007)

JimJim said:


> I've seen many good perch lakes turn this way. I'm a fisheries biologist and it isn't the predators, it's the zebra mussels. As perch grow, a specific food [a certain type of plankton for example] is needed for them to reach the next growth stage. The zebras are filtering this food source out of the water. In-Fisherman ran a similar article several years ago.


Zebra muscles? in a private lake? interesting.
so what's the long term solution to his problem


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## kcfishin (Nov 12, 2003)

I think my theory of needing MORE predatory fish rather than less is holding some ground here. You can count about 20-30 perch down the hole and all are small almost all the time, no matter where I go. I think a mix of bass, pike, and walleye would diversify the lake better and keep smaller panfish more in check. In the few pike I've ever kept, 3-5 inch gills seemed to be what I found in their stomachs, not the big panfish. Might contact a DNR biologist and bounce some questions off them.


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## kcfishin (Nov 12, 2003)

Oh and by the way Ive Not noticed zebra mussels in the lake, but I can't be sure.


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## DFJISH (Mar 30, 2009)

jailbait said:


> Im an arm chair biologist and whatever I say is the gospel 8-/


 The forums are full of guys like that. Their credentials are an opinion and ...well.... *that's all.* :lol:


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

kcfishin said:


> What is your opinion of keeping pike to help the panfish population? I am conflicted. The lake i fish is private and has a ton of small perch. I've caught probably 300 this year with none over 7.5 inches and most under 6 inches. Not a keeper gill yet either. Lake is several hundred acres and I've fished all over it.
> 
> There are a lot of pike and the general consensus of others is to start keeping all legal pike and getting them out of the lake. Evidently it was a decent perch lake before pike were introduced, but I don't know the history.
> 
> ...


No harvest of the Pike, supplement them and watch what happens. Also those 7" Perch taste the best, keep a bunch and clean them, fryem up.


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## rugbym10sflyu (Jan 19, 2011)

pike are delicious once you get y-bone out...good reason to keep pike


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## d_rek (Nov 6, 2013)

rugbym10sflyu said:


> pike are delicious once you get y-bone out...good reason to keep pike


They do taste good but damn i always hated the bones! My grandpa always kept his pike and it seemed like it was always more work to eat them than it was worth. But then again I haven't kept a pike in years... maybe i'll give it a try again.


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## vano397 (Sep 15, 2006)

there always seems to be another factor. like was mentioned there might be mussels raking the food out of the system, there also might be another species of fish like suckers, carp, gar, or something eating what larger perch eat. they can only survive on little stuff so long, and when they need to switch to fresh water shrimp or silverside minnows or something, and those arent there, they either stunt or start to die off at a young age. im with most, pike isn't the problem, but there is something throwing off the balance of forage allowing them to grow.


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## ridgewalker (Jun 24, 2008)

The only reason that I keep northern pike is because I love to eat them. There are also fun to play even on a tip up. Pike and other fish like bass should keep the perch from being stunted. However if the breeding rate is greater than the amount of fish being eaten by other fish and people, then the population will continue to boom. There might be a lot of bottom structure protecting those little fish. 

We have a lot of little perch in a local lake. Like METTLEFISH, I filet them from 7" on up and they are tasty. A real flexible blade is all that one needs.


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## TK81 (Mar 28, 2009)

Not a marine biologist, but did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express once. I will just echo what most are saying. You need more predators and you and your friends need to eat the daylights out of the smaller panfish (or bring them home to feed your cats). Thin them out and maybe there will be enough food for them to grow.


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## JimJim (Jan 4, 2012)

Just because it's a private lake, the homeown


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## JimJim (Jan 4, 2012)

Just because it's a private lake, that doesn't stop them from trailering to other lakes. Also , people who live on back lots may have deeded access. The answer is: They are stuck with stunted perch.


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## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

JimJim said:


> Just because it's a private lake, that doesn't stop them from trailering to other lakes. Also , people who live on back lots may have deeded access. The answer is: They are stuck with stunted perch.


I understand perch would die at the larval and fry stage without phytoplankton and zooplankton. At what size do perch turn to minnows and other forage? Would it be possible to create a sustainable forage base from sinking pallets or some other spawning structure, then adding fatheads during spring and fall? Maybe some other spawning minnow?


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## kcfishin (Nov 12, 2003)

I think it's a food competition issue is my gut feeling and from the reading I've done. I think we have folks killing the pike in the lake based on their own homegrown idea when they are playing biologist and speculating and blaming everything on the pike. I plan to learn more about the issues facing the lake and will try to educate the others who may have even the slightest interest in helping me help the future of the lake.

Thanks for all of your replies. I learn a little from each one.


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## scooter_trasher (Sep 19, 2005)

A friend of mine has a fish feeder on his dock and runs a bubbler in the winter, may need a permit , but his fish are rather nice size
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Fish...nt/104326380.uts&WTz_l=undefined;cat104326380


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Need to sample the lake maybe. Nope, I'm not a biologist.
I have seen hundreds of dead perch in one after ice out in a limited area checked .Must have put a dent in their year class. No other species like crappie or gills ect. Seemed unrelated to it's pike population. While not uncommon to find empty bellies in a portion of bait caught fish, the summer before crayfish was the predominant prey in them.
Lived on a different lake with tiger muskie's in it to reduce fish numbers (and being non reproducing hybrids controlled the muskies numbers) and on occasion would see large ones slowly seining small minnows. Plenty of other fish were there but the minnows had an apparent appeal be it scent or fat or ??? Regardless of prey size predators reduce numbers. Recruitment of prey year classes are next consideration in effective control. In lakes with stunted populations and or reduced forage for their prey, their benefit should enhance the sizes if numbers are sufficient. Combined with fishing harvest , it is a balancing act if size is a priority in management and food is available.


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## jailbait (Jan 22, 2015)

I usually figure the lake is what it is, and I have little or no control of the fish it produces. If I don't catch any decent size panfish after a couple trips to the same lake, I make a mental note to not fish it anymore. If it wasn't beneficial to harvest pike, there wouldn't be a 2 per day limit.


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## dontbesosensitive (Jan 27, 2014)

Theres a large pike (15lbs) that hangs out at one of my favorite bluegill spots. You can reel in bluegill after bluegill if they are smaller and he doesn't bat an eye. As soon as you get a 9 or 10 incher on, he takes a swipe at them. 

This has nothing to do with you lakes problem, just an interesting observation that this particular Pike has no interest in smaller fish.


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## JimJim (Jan 4, 2012)

Remember, they lowered the pike limit from5 to 2. The DNR did this so more pike would grow larger and hopefully eat more small panfish.


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## jailbait (Jan 22, 2015)

Just because you found some smaller fish in a pikes stomach in the winter, doesn't mean thats what they eat year round. I found a 20 inch pike with a large crappie stuck in its mouth in the summer, they were both dead.


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## AllSpecieAngler (Jun 12, 2008)

dontbesosensitive said:


> Theres a large pike (15lbs) that hangs out at one of my favorite bluegill spots. You can reel in bluegill after bluegill if they are smaller and he doesn't bat an eye. As soon as you get a 9 or 10 incher on, he takes a swipe at them.
> 
> This has nothing to do with you lakes problem, just an interesting observation that this particular Pike has no interest in smaller fish.



I would gladly come remove said beast if you just give me a coordinance!


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## flockshot (Feb 23, 2007)

This came out of a 31"northern on lake st.clair. Pike and most predators will not turn down an easy meal no matter the size. Healthy predator populations are key to healthy panfish. Also. It's my understanding some lakes will never allow for good growth of certain fish. No matter what you do.


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