# The Hunting Public and Ranch Fairy talk broadhead sharpening



## Rancid Crabtree

Waif said:


> bowhunters using crossbows.


 If one is using a crossbow, they are not a bowhunter. They are a crossbower or crossbowman. Case in point Oregon. They allow bowhunting. They welcome and encourage bowhunting and bowhunters. Visit there with a crossbow and try to "Bow hunt" or be a "Bowhunter" Let us know how that works out, But yeah, Oregon loves bowhunters. Go to WI and buy an archery deer license and try to use your crossbow. You would have to buy the crossbow hunters license if you hunt with a crossbow. And you buy the Archery deer license if you wish to be a bowhunter. 

At any rate, both bowhunters and Crossbowers need sharp broadheads and need to sharpen those broadheads once dulled. Some will use "Traditional" methods and other will use a myriad of available tools to aid them.


----------



## Waif

Rancid Crabtree said:


> If one is using a crossbow, they are not a bowhunter. They are a crossbower or crossbowman. Case in point Oregon. They allow bowhunting. They welcome and encourage bowhunting and bowhunters. Visit there with a crossbow and try to "Bow hunt" or be a "Bowhunter" Let us know how that works out, But yeah, Oregon loves bowhunters. Go to WI and buy an archery deer license and try to use your crossbow. You would have to buy the crossbow hunters license if you hunt with a crossbow. And you buy the Archery deer license if you wish to be a bowhunter.
> 
> At any rate, both bowhunters and Crossbowers need sharp broadheads and need to sharpen those broadheads once dulled. Some will use "Traditional" methods and other will use a myriad of available tools to aid them.


Traditional bowhunters just love the latest and greatest gadgets , don't they? Sharpening a broadhead does not need to rely on widgets. Or plastic. Maybe those who claim to be traditional should be required to demonstrate how to sharpen a broadhead by traditional means? Or else pay a fee for a permit to use nontraditional methods.

Yes, crossbow users are bowhunters here in Michigan. Required to buy a bow license to hunt deer with them.
Still as the trend has been , allowed during bowseason. Use of arrows might figure in there somewhere. 
Please note the use of the word bow in season...
A quick study of the mechanics involved may discover how energy is stored through the use of flexed limbs.
A sharp edged blade or blades may be involved , but what is actually required to kill a deer? A hole punched through a vital? Or a hole anywhere else?
About the only argument is how jagged an edge you want under a microscope. Though microscopes don't kill as effectively as a well placed shot.
Some bowhunters (even those wielding crossbows) would be surprised how a jagged edge affects tissue and veins/arteries vs a finer edge.
Would all agree on a desired edge? Probably not. Would anyone use one edge more jagged than the/an other? Some already due without knowing. But exaggerated on one is evident in certain designs. Examples exist in the case of scalloped edges.
But keep increasing the magnification if jagged is not desired.
Shaving sharp is plenty sharp enough though. Less than that will suffice , but lets not promote such. Bow shooters have enough failed attempts with everything launched at deer. As if expecting the broadhead to perform magically when placed where it shouldn't be.

Speaking of broadheads , I need to see if I held back a prototype(?) head or donated it.
Not suitable for live animals,(my opinion) and I'm confident you would agree.
Would be interesting to get your input on it though. Ill let you know if it's located for pictures.
Development stage was unknown . But needed to go much farther.
I acquired it second hand from a guy the designer handed it to in the late seventies,allegedly.

Folding design/crude mechanical.
Plastic ferrule.
Thin/whippy carbon steel blades.
A rivet at pivot point.
When closed to shoot it looked like two outward pointing feet at tips.
(That should clue you if you're already familiar with it.)
Opened it was about three inches wide by as many long.
No bleeders , just two blades. (There were two raised ridges on the ferrule , but seemed to be for blade positioning rather than effecting any spreading of openings.)
It seems the fight to keep weight down combined with desire for a massive slit , sacrificed integrity. Choice of materials were part of the flimsy appearance , but in fairness again it hinted of being a crude prototype. If it wasn't , yikes....


----------



## Rancid Crabtree

You entertain me. That is why I keep you around.


----------



## Waif

Rancid Crabtree said:


> You entertain me. That is why I keep you around.


And despite your abrasive nature , and willingness to leave a cattle state to kill cattle elsewhere , I value your opinion on broadhead design...

Spotted some Hilbre's the other day in Dads estate we're pecking away at. Reluctantly.
I might nab them,though my own collection has been partly dispersed over time. Not sure if the one with the rolled/curled on impact tip is still there. Like most broadheads , we're asking a lot of a design , leaving room for yet another design based on the performance of the prior.
Some other old archery equipment too, including bows, original arrow boxes with some arrows yet. A tooled quiver, and who knows what all yet. A sister has the knife with part of an antler from his first deer with a bow.
My Root got stolen. That was from his arsenal long ago. He'd tried to get Mother to use it. No idea how far she got with it.
I suspect there's a Root of his there . Not sure what the others are.
His Allen Speedster went to a friend. Fun design there! S-hook near your eye at full draw? Oh yeah... Rainbow trajectory at twenty yards, yep. But shot enough till learned and practiced with often enough , it performed as designed. Some bows will do that.


----------



## Rancid Crabtree

Waif said:


> And despite your abrasive nature , and willingness to leave a cattle state to kill cattle elsewhere , I value your opinion on broadhead design...
> 
> Spotted some Hilbre's the other day in Dads estate we're pecking away at. Reluctantly.
> I might nab them,though my own collection has been partly dispersed over time. Not sure if the one with the rolled/curled on impact tip is still there. Like most broadheads , we're asking a lot of a design , leaving room for yet another design based on the performance of the prior.
> Some other old archery equipment too, including bows, original arrow boxes with some arrows yet. A tooled quiver, and who knows what all yet. A sister has the knife with part of an antler from his first deer with a bow.
> My Root got stolen. That was from his arsenal long ago. He'd tried to get Mother to use it. No idea how far she got with it.
> I suspect there's a Root of his there . Not sure what the others are.
> His Allen Speedster went to a friend. Fun design there! S-hook near your eye at full draw? Oh yeah... Rainbow trajectory at twenty yards, yep. But shot enough till learned and practiced with often enough , it performed as designed. Some bows will do that.


Hilbre and a root (by Shakespeare) was my first hunting setup. I have more hilbre in my collection that I care to admit. As to killing wild, feral, free range Vancouver bull. That can only be done on two islands in the Pacific. Im one of only a couple dozen to travel there and take one with a bow. I could not accomplish this in WI. It mandated I fly there. I used the same outfitter Jim Shockey used but he opted for a firearm (like everybody else that goes after those mean bastards) I dont hunt with a firearms any longer. After 46 years of it I fond zero challenge or satisfaction in taking game with a shoulder discharged weapon. Shoulder discharged weapons are not the tool of the bowhunter.


----------



## Waif

Rancid Crabtree said:


> Hilbre and a root (by Shakespeare) was my first hunting setup. I have more hilbre in my collection that I care to admit. As to killing wild, feral, free range Vancouver bull. That can only be done on two islands in the Pacific. Im one of only a couple dozen to travel there and take one with a bow. I could not accomplish this in WI. It mandated I fly there. I used the same outfitter Jim Shockey used but he opted for a firearm (like everybody else that goes after those mean bastards) I dont hunt with a firearms any longer. After 46 years of it I fond zero challenge or satisfaction in taking game with a shoulder discharged weapon. Shoulder discharged weapons are not the tool of the bowhunter.


I'm teasing you about cattle.
A lot of work after one is down ,regardless.

I've still a previous log from when I was when gung ho.
Lots of cat and mouse to loose an arrow.
I'd rifle a bull today in a heartbeat vs arrowing one ,(I can't run, something I'd prefer to be able to do despite taking only shots within my limitation if pursuing a creature with a disposition of not appreciating trespass against it. Shots that should transfer to all game anyway,) but to each their own as to what critter is pursued legally..
Proficiency has merit sometimes.
A guy out East needed to stop a bull on the lam. An arrow was not the choice....I understand why as easy as why elsewhere an archer might be tempted in a less threat to others situation.

A moose would have been interesting to arrow at one time. With the attendant work after a kill a consideration for the soloist..Being solo my prior preference of hunting.
Brownies or griz or polar bear? I'd leave for others.
Nothing against it. Just not my preference for eating or killing. 
Let alone being faster than I and outweighing me too much to wrestle...


----------



## textox

Rancid Crabtree said:


> you may have too small a vocabulary
> 
> https://www.thefreedictionary.com/crossbower
> 
> https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/crossbower
> 
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/crossbower
> 
> It may be that you are not paying attention. I could have said bowhunters and crossbowmen but that seemed sexist so I went with the gender neutral crossbower since it may be a man, woman, small child, etc that hunts with a crossbow.





Rancid Crabtree said:


> you may have too small a vocabulary
> 
> https://www.thefreedictionary.com/crossbower
> 
> https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/crossbower
> 
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/crossbower
> 
> It may be that you are not paying attention. I could have said bowhunters and crossbowmen but that seemed sexist so I went with the gender neutral crossbower since it may be a man, woman, small child, etc that hunts with a crossbow.


You may have to small of a vocabulary,might have tried arbalist


----------



## Rancid Crabtree

There are no Water Buffalo in WI either so if one wants to tackle them with a bow and arrow one must travel. And you must keep your broadheads razor sharp. Thankfully I have a method that makes is very precise and repeatable and can produce a scalpels edge by hand. A good quality head stays sharp (that would be a good company name) even after its done its job just like this cutthroat head did.


----------



## Waif




----------



## Rancid Crabtree

Nice expensive setup and not at all "traditional" sharpening. Looks like a lot to buy and wont work with a lot of broadheads. Nice woodworking tool sharpening though.

That monstosity cant be packed into the field by a bowhunter (or a crossbower either). Where would you plug it in??? A current bush perhaps. (You see what I just did right there?)

I know a nifty and compact broadhead sharpening guide that can be taken afield and even use the frosted edge of a open truck window to touch up a broadhead blade. Do you want the link to this bowhunting marvel???? (crossbowers love it too)


----------



## Waif

Rancid Crabtree said:


> Nice expensive setup and not at all "traditional" sharpening. Looks like a lot to buy and wont work with a lot of broadheads. Nice woodworking tool sharpening though.
> 
> That monstosity cant be packed into the field by a bowhunter (or a crossbower either). Where would you plug it in??? A current bush perhaps. (You see what I just did right there?)
> 
> I know a nifty and compact broadhead sharpening guide that can be taken afield and even use the frosted edge of a open truck window to touch up a broadhead blade. Do you want the link to this bowhunting marvel???? (crossbowers love it too)


L.o.l.. Having to sharpen in the field is not a good sign.
Just whip out the handy dandy modern plastic broad-head wrench gizmo and swap one out from the modern handy dandy broad-head box. (Remove handy dandy modern duct tape from wrench to use as a bandage if a finger gets cut. Note , don't slice string fingers.)

I looked for that prototype. No dice. Have an idea who has it if it's not here somewhere. A former traditional shop that closed... That or it's in a can (it was that long) somewhere in another box where it shouldn't be. (Thought I found the can though. Means it left the box in a wrapper. )

Did find a Normark knife sharpener in a box with misc stuff for archery. Wonder what was going on with that? Single cut file not there anymore..A couple stones in another box...

A couple Magnus were on top of the misc. /variety of blades. Two blades with no provision for bleeders. Vented elongated teardrop holed sides. Hints of where I was leaning last in a fixed blade.


----------



## Rancid Crabtree

You confuse HAVING to resharpen in the field with having THE ABILITY to resharpen in the filed. There is a distinction that customers seem to value.

A good broadhead sharpening guide company listens to the customer base for features and all new product offerings are organic in nature and derived from the requests of bowhunters. I have it on good authority that a certain broadhead sharpening guide company moved over 200 units today with most of the orders being multiple product buys. Give them what they want and they show up to purchase.


----------



## Waif

Rancid Crabtree said:


> You confuse HAVING to resharpen in the field with having THE ABILITY to resharpen in the filed. There is a distinction that customers seem to value.
> 
> A good broadhead sharpening guide company listens to the customer base for features and all new product offerings are organic in nature and derived from the requests of bowhunters. I have it on good authority that a certain broadhead sharpening guide company moved over 200 units today with most of the orders being multiple product buys. Give them what they want and they show up to purchase.


Organic? You lost me there. At least by Websters definition.
But congrats on the volume of sales.

Given fixed blades , well you know the in the field sharpening options. No sense in my debating your gizmo when it feeds you...
I've stoned replaceables on and off ferrules. More just to do it , than out of any necessity. Were I headed out back of beyond indefinitely ,a file would suffice.

What's next? A leather strop on the side? A steel? Oil to float debris? Something to compliment the gizmo....Or clean it?
How about a durable carry case for the belt with protective storage for a couple spare heads? Or in the pack.


----------



## Rancid Crabtree

Waif said:


> Organic? You lost me there. At least by Websters definition.
> But congrats on the volume of sales.
> 
> Given fixed blades , well you know the in the field sharpening options. No sense in my debating your gizmo when it feeds you...
> I've stoned replaceables on and off ferrules. More just to do it , than out of any necessity. Were I headed out back of beyond indefinitely ,a file would suffice.
> 
> What's next? A leather strop on the side? A steel? Oil to float debris? Something to compliment the gizmo....Or clean it?
> How about a durable carry case for the belt with protective storage for a couple spare heads? Or in the pack.


organic in the terms of sales and offerings is those that sprout up or grow from customer requests and demands. An enterprising broadhead sharpening guide company doesnt wake up one morning and say "Im going to invents a sharpening guide and I hope there is a need/demand for it"

Instead he closely follows the market, takes in many many emails and notices a pattern of people saying "I wish there were a sharpening guide for concave heads like simmons and kudupoint and Centaur and strickland helix. Nobody makes a good angle controlled an d low cost and easy to use sharpening guide for those heads and boy oh boy i would be great if it also worked on convex heads and also straight profiles and you know what would be even better is ig it could also do small hunting knives with blades up to 3 inches"

The inventor that owns a broadhead sharpening guide company gets enough of those emails and requests and wakes up and says to himself: "There seems to be a real need here that should be filled. I think I will fill it"

3 days later he produces his first prototype and a week later he is in production and selling his Version "C" which is is 8th broadhead sharpening guide. That is organic growth is a generic and non-specific example of what could happen. (If a guy were to be into making broadhead sharpening guides)


----------



## Rancid Crabtree

As far as a leather strop, an enterprising guy would teach his customers that an old cereal box cut apart and buffing compound applied to the unprinted side of the box makes for a very effective and super low cost strop and he would make videos showing that and his customers would gobble that up like candy and thank him profusely. (at least I imagine that could happen)


----------



## Rancid Crabtree

Also in regards to organic. An enterprising broadhead sharpening guide company that makes all of its products from plastic and who has many grandchildren and cares about the world he will leave them would do well to make all his products from agri-plastic (plant based plastic) and not use petroleum based plastics. He would want his products to be returned to nature after their useful life and not clutter landfills for ever. He would care about the planet.


----------



## Waif

Rancid Crabtree said:


> As far as a leather strop, an enterprising guy would teach his customers that an old cereal box cut apart and buffing compound applied to the unprinted side of the box makes for a very effective and super low cost strop and he would make videos showing that and his customers would gobble that up like candy and thank him profusely. (at least I imagine that could happen)


Ahh,ye olde traditional cereal box.
The gasket material of my nearly misspent youth.

Kept dry it could work in the field. Tote the compound securely and all should be well. Easy in the field? Maybe. If it ain't a dry camp or musk ox hunt...And a table is handy.


----------



## Waif

Rancid Crabtree said:


> Also in regards to organic. An enterprising broadhead sharpening guide company that makes all of its products from plastic and who has many grandchildren and cares about the world he will leave them would do well to make all his products from agri-plastic (plant based plastic) and not use petroleum based plastics. He would want his products to be returned to nature after their useful life and not clutter landfills for ever. He would care about the planet.


Holistic manufacturing?
A file can become a knife should it become worn out. Heck , it can become broadheads.
The process of making the file must be considered to regard impact.
As well as the knife or other tool.

Ag. is certainly not always easy on the environment. When animal control /habitat lost to it is considered, there is a cost.
As well as erosion , chemicals used to amend soil ,control weeds ect..
But if discarded waste from processing ag can be utilized with low environmental impact in the process of creating a product , that's a resource to consider. Unless waste is depended on to feed the soil. 
It can become fuel too in some cases.
What is the substitute when organic material is removed from an ag. field and soil requires more amendment to replace it? It's source and processing , it's effect on the futures environment?

A 100% plant based sharpener? Now that would be interesting.
But then , what's not carbon in one form or another , or a vehicle for it?


----------



## Rancid Crabtree

And if that broadhead sharpening guide company really cared about his grand kids and America and American jobs and would love to see the CCP starve then this.

https://www.michigan-sportsman.com/...can-made-bowhunting-product-to-market.692233/


----------



## BigWoods

TSN71 said:


> He is that company, that's why he posted the video. A great way to skirt paying for advertising...hint


He got a warning on another site for pimping his company for free as well. Wish Steve would ban him again. Nothing but childish banter aside from advertising.


----------



## Hoytman5

BigWoods said:


> He got a warning on another site for pimping his company for free as well. Wish Steve would ban him again. Nothing but childish banter aside from advertising.


If that's the case it is a major turn off for me. He boasts American made yet he doesn't support this site and uses it to support his own business? No thanks, I'll pass.....


----------



## Rancid Crabtree

I laughed.


----------



## TSN71

Hoytman5 said:


> If that's the case it is a major turn off for me. He boasts American made yet he doesn't support this site and uses it to support his own business? No thanks, I'll pass.....


Yep, could have been a hint dropped much earlier in this thread....


----------

