# CWAC proposal



## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

just got the proposal sent to me...don't know how official it is or if I'm supposed to post it, but oh well.



> 2006 CWAC Waterfowl Season Proposals
> 
> Zone 1 (upper peninsula)
> Canada Goose Sept. 18- Nov. 6 (50 days MVP)
> ...


not in agreement with the zone 3 dates...actually quite miffed by it as i see 10 pple wanting later starting dates to 1 wanting early.


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## BrokenWing (Jun 6, 2006)

Thanks for the heads-up

Rich


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## dinoday (Feb 22, 2004)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> not in agreement with the zone 3 dates...


 Thanks for posting.
I lwish we had the later start(as do a lot of us.),but at least we can know where we stand.
You can tell the last two years whoever is picking the date for the late hunt doesn't go out on New Years Eve


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## Bmac (Jul 7, 2002)

Sounds like what I was told by a CWAC rep. Apparently some of the zone 3 reps didn't want to start later because they "lost" 3 weeks of the season last year due to freeze up. Lakes by me froze last year also but I changed tactics and went to creeks, rivers and fields. I'd much rather be swatting at snowflakes than mosquitos.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

I couldn't believe what I was reading this morning...Gwizdz's column. 

"Last fall, an usually cold mid November froze inland marshes early, costing hunters a number of days. But last year also saw a later-than-usual migration, leaving southern Michigan hunters split on how to address the issue. 

Tim Reis, the wildlife biologist in Bay City, said he had a large number of complaints about the late opener from hunters who use Nayanquing Point, which is on the northern edge of the southern Michigan waterfowl zone."

Huh? The ducks at NP hadn't even begun to arrive, much less already come and gone!!!

They might as well open the duck season on September 1 in the NLP, so that those who have to have as many days of coinciding goose season would REALLY be happy. It'll be just as warm on September 30, with about as many ducks as there were on last year's NLP opener, which, again, was a WEEK later-none. It was too doggone hot. 

The last decent opening day we had up here was two years ago, when we opened on October 12th. And even that was slow compared to past years. 

I saw a hen mallard last night here on Intermediate Lake with 8 brand new, less than 2 day old, fluff balls-how big do you think those little guys will be on September 30th? The hatch was poor, and late, in some cases, like that hen, extremely late. But no one seems to care about the mallards, it's all about what's happening almost 1000 miles away with ducks we never see, and we just keep whacking away at them with things like 2 day SLP late season mallard slaughters because they "want to protect mallards"....what a joke.


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## SWMIH20FOWLER (Nov 17, 2005)

I have a couple of reasons why this is crap!

1. If you take weather patterns into consideration, then you have to look at the changing patterns that are showing a "warming" rather than an early freeze up. If you remember last year, we had a cold mid november, then we had a green Christmas and it was nice for the 2 day split, ok, a little snow, but not that cold. I do not agree with a loss of 3 weeks of hunting, if that is the case, there should be a lot more birds since the SE side of the state only had a 45 day season last year. 

2. If you read all the chatter on here before the CWAC meeting, how many people were all for an Oct. 14th start in Z3? It was everywhere...look on some of the other waterfolw site, the same thing. You cannot sit back and tell me that no one here saw that... 

My idea to help everyone be heard, since it is very hard for everyone to take a day off of work and travel all over the state and sit in a meeting, that would probably be crowded if 50 of us showed up anyway. 

I think there should be an online poll where you have to be registered to vote for it, and only be able to vote one time. We are in the age of technology, in ten years, the CWAC meeting will probably be broadcast online so everyone can be a part of it. 

I really think the boat has been missed on this one this time. I hope that the DNR is able to do the right thing and make a better decision. 

That is my opinion, that is all.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

I just don't understand. All the feedback over the past 6 months has been 90% keep same or atleast keep late start.....then we get this. Who and where are these pple that justify such early start dates. I'm sick of people crying about freezouts...If you look at the 10 year average, freeze outs before december 3rd is not the norm (zone 3) and just hate when we make kneejerk reactions to one season. I don't understand why they moved away from last season at all if anything....maybe tweak the splits...but not move up a full week...shoulda been moved back a week from last year. Its not even worth getting the boat outa the garage til 3 weeks into season now.


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## Branta (Feb 6, 2002)

First off - thanks for posting Kid.

As for the dates, I'm sure data was presented to justify the proposed framework and that it was deliberated to some length before coming up with what we see today.

I'd add that what you see, is most likey what you'll get! the sticking point (to me) is if the NRC will go for the late goose split or not - my feeling is that they'll think it unnessary and unproductive when we already over complicate things. my money is on 30 straight.

having said all that, I would encourage everyone here to do the following;

Keep a hunters log this season. Note location, temps, conditions, # and species of birds seen and bagged. when a new influx of birds came in. Note freeze out / thaw patterns.

Don't like what you see? apparently, someone else didn't like what they HAD last year and made sure someone heard about it! I'd suggest the same to all of you!! Don't like it?! Well, it's too late for this year, but when you're out swatting bugs this october, why not let some people know how you feel. Place a few calls and emails to your regional biologists and those in the mason bldg.!

End of season, review your log - now you got some sound observations and ammo.

again, I hear the MDNR never had so many complaints as last years season framework. Maybe that should read; "until the '06 came around!"

Just remember: Squeaky wheel gets the grease guys (and girls)!!

(sure wish I was state side vs. Canada this december!  )


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

I spent an entire day last year in the marshes of Lake Erie with Joe Robison, who last time I looked was still the coordinator of CWAC. 

Joe was kind enough to invite my son and myself to join him a couple of days before Halloween, when we should have had some pretty decent hunting. 

We were hoping for a layout diver shoot. Instead, we had a bluebird day, with temps in the 60's, and absolutely no ducks at all within range of our gun barrels. No one even got a shot off. We saw ducks, but not a lot, and a lot of them were teal. All of those ducks were either local or had been around for a while, they knew the game. 

We never heard any other shots all day. 

That afternoon, Joe gave us a tour of the area and pointed out what he said was the first group of divers (bluebills) arriving into the area-again, that was two days before Halloween. Said they must have JUST gotten there. 

Joe muttered more about the warm weather than any of us...I doubt very much that he's in favor of this proposal at all. 

I'm sure that every one of those CWAC members had similar experiences last fall, and I can tell you that out of all the duck hunters I spoke to last fall, not ONE of them complained that it was too cold, that the season was too late, or that they wanted an earlier season for this year. 

I wish I had been able to go to the meeting instead of cleaning my cabin all day. I want to know how they reached this conclusion...it could not have been from any personal hunting experiences in Michigan.

Maybe THIS is how they're going to protect the mallards-start the season too early, so it ends before we even get any ducks into the area. Up here, we might get a few, with that December hunt, but since my squirrel hunting has been better in December during the last few years than it's ever been, due to abnormally warm weather for that time of the year, I doubt it. 

Sounds like the members of CWAC are afraid of a little bit of cold weather during a very temporary cold snap--maybe they don't know how to adjust their tactics, as someone else mentioned.


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## Brydog (Oct 13, 2005)

What irks me is how everyone whines and crys about the amount of geese in Michigan (including the DNR) then they open the season with a 2 daily bag limit!
I guess they'd rather spend OUR money netting and transplanting these birds rather than let the people that buy all the waterfowl licences thin them out.
Its hardly worth it anymore to spend all the time and money to go Goose Hunting when its all over in 2 shots. Not to mention all the time spent on training the Dawgs.


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## Dead Bird (Oct 2, 2001)

before everyone gets up in a roar over this... does anyone know when the feds the state and delta are meeting... has Olson put out a letter for the midwest (Ohio, MIch, Ind, Ill etc) for this season yet... maybe when all is said and done it will make more than just the guides and there lodges happy... everyone seems to forget the problem that was created last year when the date didn't come out as exptected and lodges were scrambling to rebook...


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

It's worse in some areas of Ohio, believe me. My son is absolutely drowning in birds down there, on a year around and migrant basis, and his limit is one goose a day. 

He and the guys he hunts with are almost afraid to go goose hunting for fear stray shot will take more than their daily limit. 

And the goose hunters can always go duck hunting...at least, when you're goose hunting, you have birds. 

Dead Bird-your inquiry makes sense, but it sickens me that the seasons are set around the guides or a private lodge's bookings for the season...please tell me that's not the case.


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## Dead Bird (Oct 2, 2001)

Linda... don't get me wrong the owners of the lodges and bigger guide service get to bend the ear of people we may not get a chance to talk to on a one on one... I think CWAC is a good media for the voice of alot of people... but there is no data in there conversation other than someone elses... my point is that most USFWS ( folks who set our dates) are out of Delta... most of the bio guys either teach and lecture there or get grant money for research from Delta... just as you got to spend a day with Joe from CWAC Joe spends alot of time with others that may help spin the data to the correct outcome... lets see what happens and than make the best of it...


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## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

I for one didn't vote for the early opener along with 4 others. I voted what everyone I talked to online, and throughout the lower wanted. We never made it to my suggested date of opening on the 14th of Oct. The first date suggested was by OUR waterfowl work group comprised of dnr bioligists. The motion was made seconded and discussed. I made an arguement as did one other but to no avail. One of the reps from the northern lower was adement about starting your dates where they are Linda, and I voted against that also. I'm only one vote. Sorry I could'nt get it done but I tried so did 4 others.
Smoke


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## Carpe Diem (Jun 24, 2003)

> I'm sick of people crying about freezouts...


Freezeouts are a fact of waterfowling and we live with it. But if the facts point to moving away from the freezeout period, then so be it or vice-versa. Just because we had a FREEZE in Thanksgiving followed by a THAW in December last year means it will happen again. 

Given the "global warming" theory and such, perhaps an annual review of the past five years weather cycle average should be used to establish dates more so than public opinion which will only serve to pit waterfowlers against each other. Actually the NRC incorporates that data and derives feedback as to limits and dates from public forums. If you want to validate later dates, start with NOAA and check their logs for weather throughout the state over the last few years. Check this link http://www.crh.noaa.gov/dtx/. 

As far as the goose hunting goes, quote is quota. If we shoot more than our share, well the last guy in line two or three states south gets none and that's not fair. They may have been "Made in Michigan" but they are intended to be shared by everyone.

How is it that I have read on a variety of forums that waterfowlers want later dates, yet I read here,


> Apparently some of the zone 3 reps didn't want to start later because they "lost" 3 weeks of the season last year due to freeze up.


It would appear that CWAC is going to have a credibility problem or their data gathering needs to be more sound. Here are three of the basic methods used for data gathering by the NRC. The weather report, their field agents and huntings refuges where hunters must report their birds. A public forum only derives info from those who feel strongly enough on an issue to speak out. i.e. how many watefowlers are there registered to this site and how many voted on the CWAC poll. I would venture to say, not a proportionate amount.

If you want to keep hunting logs, that's fine but then everyone hunter must keep it and keep it honestly for that concept to be valid data. Or I could pop up next July and say that I have 75 journals kept by diver hunters who point to Oct 30th as the starting date. As you can see, although well meaning, journals could have a credibility problem.

CD


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## bias (Aug 29, 2004)

I have attended the last four or five CWAC meetings and was very disappointed in this one. I think these dates were pre-selected by the DNR and pushed down the throats of the CWAC. 

The biologists spent much time discussing "all waterfowlers" versus the "hard-core waterfowlers", and that the general masses (who average one to two days waterfolwing per year) apparently like earlier openers. They had results from a "hunter survey" indicating a preference for opening dates in each zone--showing them to be earlier than most of us would like, but they didn't indicate who their population was that they were surverying. Was it even duck hunters? Was it duck hunters who lived or hunted in the zone they were voting on?

They also had questionable data on freezing temps in michigan, indicating that we start to get freezing temps in early november here in the UP. Their data didn't say squat about ice, and they seem unwilling to listen to what most duck hunters know about when things freeze. The DNR also claimed that there is no evidence of an October "lull" between an early duck opener and the migration 

There was also much discussion of a proposal for another zone II split--but this time for only a week rather than two. The DNR was very clear that they did not like this idea, and claimed to have recieved nothing but complaints on this split. In contrast, one CWAC member went so far as to bring 50 pages of print outs from the various duck hunting web sites, showing popular support for the early season split. Also, they had someone from law enforcment who indicated that they had 31 or 32 closed season hunting violations from zone II last year, partly because some decided to hunt anyway, partly because some failed to check the regs. Apparently, we need "duck hunting dates for dummies." The Zone II reps unanimously voted for an early season split in Zone II, but it got shot down.

The guys on CWAC generally do a great job, even when they have some serious differences of opinion. Unfortunately, I got a feeling that the CWAC was unduly influenced at this meeting by the ten or twelve DNR employees who were in attendance, providing information that appeared--to me at least--as being slandted towards the outcome they wanted. 

At least we still get 6 ducks/60 days.

And the best part, for those of you who didn't hear . . . 2 Hooded Mergansers per day!! Whooo-Hoooo!!!


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## birdshooter (Jan 7, 2006)

last years opener for the north zone was the first of october this year its a day earlier zone three was the eighth so again one day earlier  Am I missing the bigger picture here or something?????To me I see NO difference
from last year.


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## Ken Martin (Sep 30, 2003)

Brydog said:


> What irks me is how everyone whines and crys about the amount of geese in Michigan (including the DNR) then they open the season with a 2 daily bag limit!


This is set by th USFWS and is for the migratory goose population, not the resident giants.



Linda G. said:


> Joe muttered more about the warm weather than any of us...I doubt very much that he's in favor of this proposal at all.


Joe stated that he would personally like to see the season open in December.



bias said:


> They had results from a "hunter survey" indicating a preference for opening dates in each zone--showing them to be earlier than most of us would like, but they didn't indicate who their population was that they were surverying. Was it even duck hunters? Was it duck hunters who lived or hunted in the zone they were voting on?


The survey was sent out to people who purchased waterfowl permits. If I remeber correctly, in the survey was a question about hunting where you live. If you like I can look it up tonight and post it. The question of openers was part of that survey. I am going from memory but I believe it was 29% for first Saturday and 30% for second Saturday. A split decision in my eyes.

One of the issues that has not been brought up here is the fact that a goose/duck overlap is very important to WATERFOWLERS in Michigan. That was evident in the 2004 survey. At the meeting that issue was a weighing factor on the decisions that were made.

As far as having the DNR publish "suggestions" to the CWAC members.....I would rather have that then doing an end around after the meeting.

The expressed opinions typed here are soley those of Ken Martin and not those of Michigan Duck Hunters Assoc, Pheasants Forever, Ducks Unlimited, Huron Pointe Sportsman's Assoc, Perch Point Conservation Club. 

Ken Martin


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## beer and nuts (Jan 2, 2001)

I like the NLP and UP opening on the same date...but the earlier dates will not save the local mallards..but with that said any date in Oct will not do that anyways.

Teal/woodie taste so much better than a mallard anyways! 

Dates look fine to me.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

My apologies on thinking that last year's opener was a week earlier, or sometime around October 5th. That must have been the year before?

Doesn't matter-what matters is that last year's NLP opener was too early-we didn't do anything last year, even though we hunted one of the best public spots in the NLP. We saw zero ducks. I do not want to see a repeat of that, and that's exactly what we got. 

Goose hunters did well, tho. The year prior was a bit later, that was our last reasonably decent opener. 

I don't have very many good locations for woodie/teal around here, but this year, if the DNR follows CWAC's recommendations, looks like I'll have to find some. Or go goose hunting. 

I have no idea why the DNR might have ulterior motives in setting seasons earlier, as suggested. Unless they they want to push wood duck hunting or think they can sell more duck stamps in good weather.


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## Bmac (Jul 7, 2002)

birdshooter said:


> last years opener for the north zone was the first of october this year its a day earlier zone three was the eighth so again one day earlier  Am I missing the bigger picture here or something?????To me I see NO difference
> from last year.


Zone 3 opened on the 15th last year.

Ducks & Mergansers 
North Zone: October 1 - November 29, 2005
Middle Zone: October 1-9 and October 22 - December 11, 2005
South Zone: *October 15* - December 11, 2005 and December 31, 2005 - Jan. 1, 2006


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## birdshooter (Jan 7, 2006)

Bmac said:


> Zone 3 opened on the 15th last year.
> 
> Ducks & Mergansers
> North Zone: October 1 - November 29, 2005
> ...


 
MY bad i was thinking of 04 when it opened the 9th
And if i can recall it always fell on the second weekend if the 15th didnt fall on a saterday


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## weatherby (Mar 26, 2001)

Works for me


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Linda G. said:


> ...I have no idea why the DNR might have ulterior motives in setting seasons earlier, as suggested....or think they can sell more duck stamps in good weather.


I have no proof to support this theory (conspiracy theory?  ) but simple logic tells us that the DNR will cater to the masses. I think the facts would show that most of the 60K or so who buy duck stamps either hunt only one or two days (most of those the warm weather days), or they don't hunt at all. And I would hazard a guess most of the youngsters hunt early season rather than late season. So it's the minority of us crazies who want the colder, later hunting opportunities. And in this day and age of shrinking hunter numbers, why would the DNR support a proposal aimed at the minority of users??? Again, no proof...just my thoughts. 

I'm not really for or against what apparently has been decided. If the SLP opens on Oct. 7th as was posted, I'll be on a pothole somewhere in North Dakota that day anyway.....


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

Where was last Saturday's CWAC meeting held? RAM center? I'm trying to get someone on the phone who would know, and hopefully, was there, but it's already 4, most folks have probably already left for the day.


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## Bmac (Jul 7, 2002)

Linda...It was at the Ram on Saturday. John Kurkowski is a CWAC rep and was there.


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## Long Spurs (Mar 29, 2005)

I really like opt.#1 for the late goose season! If the feds will go for that.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Long Spurs said:


> I really like opt.#1 for the late goose season! If the feds will go for that.


already shot down. looks like option #2.

also there is a correction i need to add to zone 2.



> Zone 2 (northern lower peninsula)
> Canada Goose MVP Sept 30-Oct.29 Nov. 23-Dec. 12 (50 days)
> Canada Goose SJBP Oct. 7- Oct. 16 Nov.23-Dec.12 (30 days)
> 
> Duck Sept.30-Oct.22 Oct.28-Dec.3 (60 days) (Corrected)


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## crazydrakes (Oct 7, 2005)

Look on the bright side...at least we may still have a season, with bird flu and all. I heard in other countries they cancelled the season all together, so we don't have it that bad! I'd rather spend all my money on gear and get it wet on warm days than let it sit in the shed and collect dust. Besides maybe we'll have a good Teal season, they come into the layout boats! 

I only have one question, maybe I missed this in the thread.
What about early goose? Sept.1st? 3 a day?


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## raisinrat (Feb 9, 2006)

Not sure who said this, I think it was Linda. Something about the divers not being there. When you guys went out. I thought they where a tad early for last year 40degree mornings when they first showed up. Now here is my question to who ever it was where did you guys hunt the Point. Because if it was up there the birds where north and south of you there. The point wasnt all that good over all this year. It had its times when it got cold. And early was great everywhere in the southeast teal and Woodies everywhere. Thats what I saw and my buddies saw. In fact opening day my uncle had 3 Cans come in on them bright and early that day.

I like the season they way they are just get your self some breathable for the first month and call it a day. Heck I would have them anyways because of Goose Hunting. Just what I saw, and my opinion.


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## Branta (Feb 6, 2002)

> Quote:
> Zone 2 (northern lower peninsula)
> Canada Goose MVP Sept 30-Oct.29 Nov. 23-Dec. 12 (50 days)
> Canada Goose SJBP Oct. 7- Oct. 16 Nov.23-Dec.12 (30 days)
> ...


Please clarify a couple of things for everybody. (or Smoke)

1. help everyone understand the goose split and what consititutes a SJBP management zone vs. the MVP.

2. are you now saying that what's posted above is the zone 2 proposed duck season? (and early split?) there was a lot of posts earlier to the contrary, so please explain.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

couple of things to consider: CWAC is but ONE AVENUE that the MDNR collects information/recommendations from. Back when I was in the game, Dave had a nice slide pertaining to how the season setting process plays out. I'll see if I can dig it up from my old files.

the other thing to consider is that you need (I believe) 14 "fors" out of the 18 seat committee for a motion to be approved. it sounds like the framework just passed. 
(SMOKE, DT7: correct me if I'm wrong with anything above)

Personally, I don't put alot a weight into the "explosion" of law enforcement issues in zone 2 as a good reason to then revert back. If Kid is correct above, then how did it change? and secondly, that's what they make hunting guides for! and thirdly, last year (to me) was but one step to trying to look at different ways to slice the season pie. one fluke weather pattern, membership that can't read their guides and we throw it out as a bad idea?! as for start date in zone 3, let's say it started a week earlier and we _still _got the same bad "3 week loss to freeze out" - so now it's two weeks!! Wouldn't guys still grouse about that loss? In '03 we started on the 11th, in '04 we started on the 9th, '05 on the 15th... my point is; would the 4 days between the '03 start (which apparently as OK) and '05 start saved our season last year?! - don't think so.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Can I grouse now about that $%^#@#! January 2 day is *KILLING MY LEVERAGE TO APPEASE BOTH PARTIES?!!! *imagine if we had a split earlier guys. big water boys could be gunning the US SIDE the 2nd weekend of december when it just starts to snow... the fair weathers can rest easy that they got their season started one week early... and all would be right in the world!!!


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

A.M. said:


> The proposal of a Oct. 7 opener sounds great to me. All of the HARDCORE hunters are all miffed because they didn't get the dates they wanted. TOO BAD, SO SAD. At least that was the reply I got from people on this board, when I posted last season about being froze out. Or maybe I was just cying as I was also told here. This year everyone else can cry because they didn't get what they wanted. You know all the HARDCORE hunter's should just travel, or change there tactics if they don't have birds on the opener, I think that also was a common response I got. There are gonna be quite a few responses to this, AND BOYS, ALL I CAN SAY IS
> 
> 
> P.S. GOTTA LUV THE NET!!!!!!


I'll bite.

Glad your gloating about watching the migration from a parking lot this year because the season will be closed... Best week of season just got removed for mosquito season. Theres nothing "hardcore" about it, mallard migration and big divers came through last year mid november-early december but we put our season forward 4 weeks to kill off our weak local mallards and a few woodies. cheers to your victory and welcome to the site.


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## weatherby (Mar 26, 2001)

Seein what I see now I really hate to see what everybody would say if they had to work under a 45 or 30 day frame. I think they did OK and if ya really look at the whole situation you'll find what you want even if ya have to head to da UP in late November to get your fix


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## Branta (Feb 6, 2002)

weatherby said:


> Seein what I see now I really hate to see what everybody would say if they had to work under a 45 or 30 day frame. I think they did OK and if ya really look at the whole situation you'll find what you want even if ya have to head to da UP in late November to get your fix


Now there's a good attitude! taking lemons and making lemonade! 


Joe sent me the contact info for CWAC - (hope those guys don't mind! :rant: :rant: :rant: ) 

date in ( ) = term start date. [ ] = end of term
member at large rep is a 3 year term. those with an "open" end of term rep. organizations with a permanent seat. (it's up to the org to select the appropriate rep from their group)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ken Martin (7/06) [ ] 
810-223-8843 
MI Duck Hunters Association 
69520 Place Rd. 
Richmond, MI 48062 
[email protected] 

Todd Alofs (3/05) [ ] 
Vice-Chairperson 
269-751-7503 
Wildlife Unlimited 
3044 53rd St. 
Hamilton, MI 49419 
[email protected] 

Neil Carlson (3/06) [9/09] 
906-482-4107 
1410 S. 13th St. 
Escanaba MI 49829 
[email protected] 


Dave Hohlfeldt (3/06) [9/09] 
313-268-8743 
16913 Maumee Ave. 
Grosse Point MI 48230 
[email protected] 

John Huffman (3/06) [ ] 
734-854-3443 
Waterfowl U.S.A. 
6760 Douglas 
Lambertville, MI 48144 
[email protected] 

Bud Dankers (4/01) [ ] 
CWAC Chairperson 
989-823-2526 
Shiawassee Flats Citizens & 
Hunters Association 
4360 Waltan Rd. 
Vassar, MI 48768 
[email protected] 


Steve Wyckoff (10/01) [ ] 
W: 616-754-5688 
H: 989-248-3151 
Ducks Unlimited 
9343 S. Barnes Rd. 
Greenville, MI 48838 
[email protected] 

John Thompson (8/04) [ ] 
MI Waterfowl Association 
906-345-5098 
P.O. Box 71 
Big Bay, MI 49808 
[email protected] 

Randy Buller (3/06) [9/09] 
616-638-1235 
14330 Ott Lane 
Grand Haven, MI 49417 
[email protected] 

Don Tarry (3/06) [9/09] 
734-848-4826 
P.O. Box 201 
Luna Pier, MI 48157 
[email protected] 

Mike OMalley (3/03) [9/06] 
517-676-1168 
1884 W. Howell 
Mason, MI 48854 
[email protected] 

Paul Conners (9/02) [ ] 
586-749-6933 
586-468-8894 
Harsens Island WF Hunters 
23905 Twenty Eight Mile Road 
Ray, MI 48096 
[email protected] 

Ron Sefcik (3/06) [9/09] 
269-621-4349 
59320 62nd 
Hartford, MI 49057 
[email protected] 

Jason Dinsmore (3/03) [ ] 
517-371-1041 
MUCC 
P.O. Box 30235 
Lansing, MI 48909 

John Kurkowski (9/06) [3/10] 
989- 291-5361 
2016 Orion Trail 
Sidney, MI 48885 
[email protected] 

John Cottenham (3/04) [9/07] 
989-426-7389 
55 Cabin Creek 
Gladwin, MI 48624 
[email protected] 

James Bailey (3/04) [9/07] 
906-493-5411 
30108 E. James Bailey Drive 
Drummond Island, MI 49726 
[email protected] 

Mike Gnatkowski (3/04) [9/07] 
231-845-8400 
P.O. Box 727 
Ludington, MI 49431 
[email protected] 

Ken Dodge (3/05) [9/08] 
517-764-4259 
4444 Innisbrook Dr. 
Jackson, MI 49201 
[email protected] 

"_Citizen Waterfowl Advisory Committee mission: Provide feedback to the DNR - Wildlife Division on existing and proposed waterfowl regulations and wetland management issues. CWAC members must present views and concerns which represent stakeholders from their areas of the state and disseminate information learned at CWAC meetings back to those stakeholders. "_


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

I remember back when the season closed the begining of November and our special season was Thanksgiving, so I like that we get into December again. IMHO, an early season is another lame idea like when they changed shooting time to sun rise the one year.


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## Dead Bird (Oct 2, 2001)

I believe you are correct AM the peak number was early Oct in the refuge system.... however that was not the peak number of birds in area... once the refuge gets frozen either Shiw or Fish Pt the birds move but not to Ohio... look at bay and lake counts if interested... for fudge hunters of which I am one.... normally we carry alot of birds early... but Shiw and FP had peak numbers on site after Turkey day last year for the thaw... I was also there for that... neither system does counts after the season or open water during the season... therefore the peak numbers total in the state as a migration would not been seen by a hunter who was only a bingo player....


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

Maybe A.M. never duck hunted when the hunting was really good, back when we used to have a season all over the state in December. Maybe he's never been up north right around the 5th of December or so to see the hordes of divers that would appear, or further south a couple of days after that. Maybe he's never seen real Michigan duck hunting. 

I would suggest that a solid waterfowling front appear at the next NRC meeting...with this heat we have now, (104 on my thermometer yesterday at 4 p.m.) and the trends of the last few years, I'm not real optimistic about everything cooling off too much by the end of September. And we'll have ducks out there that may not only sport a lack of plumage, but also a lack of flying ability. 

I saw another very young clutch of mallards last night on a different lake up here. Would someone please explain to me why ducks in North Dakota set the seasons for us?? Does anybody look at the hatch on the Great Lakes??


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## Dead Bird (Oct 2, 2001)

Linda trends are used to help with limits but since we are in a spilt flyway we get more data than needed... what is fun to watch on this site is the nuber of birds from the east side vs the west side and the differnt times they push on.... 
I agree I am seeing chicks and I can't recal seeing them this late in the season before... Caseville area.... saw what I thought was a pregant doe last week and this past weekend saw her again with two fawns... I may be wrong but I don't recall this late in the year for seeing such young animals... I thought the reason July 15 was used for dog train was that all the chicks would be up and at least able to run or swim...


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## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

Branta you are correct in everything you said and well said I might add.  

After some strong after thought I've just decided to make the best of what looks to be a marginal year at best. But I know one thing for certain we are loaded up with resident geese and they will take the brunt of my frustration in the first 15 days of September:evil: . And then it's off to Nodak the last week of October. I hope it's cold and snowing at least enough to bring some flight birds down to enjoy same true waterfowl hunting.
Smoke


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

here's nov. 16th, as dated in the pic








here's nov. 15th









and fyi, i usually hunt the bay more than the flats, but last year around nov. 10th it got crazy and only got back up to the bay around the 21st/22nd weekend and i broke ice to get out.....and there was about 5-10k birds leapfrogging off the end of fishpoint lodge. Heck even after the bay froze, doug was taking guys out to the point in the argo to get hunts in and they were limiting out on divers with a few puddlers mixed in.

I hunted North Dakota the last week of october and the migration was NOT thru there yet as per everyone there...when i got home on nov.2nd the birds were trickling into our refuges. Shiawassee flats refuge DID NOT peak til nov. 24th or so and it was completely loaded with 15k after freeze up....only open water we had was the refuge.

Please try to tell all the hunters on lake st. clair their peak migration was in october....I gotta hear this. They absolutely killed them on the split last year......as far as you could see on open water there was layouts and everyone had good hunts if they got out.

* oh and a side note, when i came across the mac bridge on Nov. 2nd last year there was about a 10k bird raft staged at the base on the northeast side. They were on their way down.

The bottom line is I think adding a week to the front of our season stinks but i'll live with it, I'll just spend more time in ND this season so alls good.


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