# Au Sable skamania, why did they stop?



## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

Does anybody know why the DNR stopped stocking the Au Sable with skamania? I heard the run was pretty good, so why did they stop?


----------



## GONE FISHIN(LARRY) (Dec 28, 2002)

hey jon,I think to get the best answer,try e-mailing the d.n.r.. we fished the au sable for skamania back in the late 80's and early 90's mostly on days when we could not get out on the big lake,we had very limted success,but never fished it on good weather days.I know a couple of river rats up there who swear they use to do pretty good.I talked the creel cenus lady back then I know her reports were bad,lack of fish and lack of fisherman.I think it might be a dollar thing for the d.n.r. the money they spent on skamania,could be spent on another species with a better return,more bang for the buck.
jon let me know if you get a answer i'm interested too.
thanks , Larry


----------



## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

It could be because no one really knew they existed until the DNR had reduced then stopped the plants. Steelhead fishing in general was not as popular then, either.

Maybe it was because almost all of the fish would shoot upstream (in about 1 day after they hit the river), and sit in the pool right at the dam, where the DNR does not allow anyone to fish. That is really silly, too. That piece of water is closed to fishing to "preserve a natural spawning habitat for Steelhead," which is ridiculous since there is no viable natural reproduction of Steelhead in the river due to the excessively high Summer temps. The DNR basically refused to enforce the laws against snagging, preferring instead to enforce a no fishing law.

We used to whack the Summer runs in the river, and a lot of them were HUGE. I had fish on that I know were larger than 18 pounds. Some ran the river in June/July, but when the water started to cool in October - at the exact same time the Salmon would come in and start dropping eggs, the Summer run fish would run good. With all the eggs in the river, they hit like crazy, and they fought so hard you couldn't land half of the fish that were hooked. I remember hooking 9 on 10 casts one day, and they all broke off 10 lb maxima in a matter of seconds. There were also Winter Steelies in the river at the same time, and although they usually did not get as large, they hit just as well, and fought great, too. Some of them got pretty good sized - I can remember when an average fish was about 8 or 9 pounds, and skippers were rare. 12 and 13 pounders were common. I haven't caught a Steelie over 10 pounds in 3 years in the Ausable, and I fish it quite a bit.

The Salmon used to be a lot bigger, too. I used to see a few Salmon over 30 lbs every year, and almost no fish under 5 pounds. Now I see more fish that are under 3 lbs, than fish over 20 lbs. I hear all sorts of reports of all these 20+ pound Salmon caught every Fall, and I do see a few - very few. Most of those reports are from people who did not weigh their fish. I fish from a boat most of the time, and I see the fish spawning all through the upper river. I can't remember seeing anything over 25 pounds in many years. I think the forage base in lake Huron is pretty depressed. On the piers in Lake Michigan, there are alewives all around in Spring. You never see that in Lake Huron.
When the alewives are near the piers on Lake Michigan in Summer(when an offshore wind blows the warm water offshore and the onshore water is below 60*), there are usually Skamanias around, and most people use Alewives for bait.

I never knew about it at the time, but friends have told me the Thunder Bay river used to be planted with Skams, and no one knew about them at all. The few people who fished for them really had a blast. Imagine fishing for Catfish and Smallmouth, and hooking a 15 pound fresh run Steelie on light gear.


----------



## jeremy L (Sep 19, 2002)

i disagree with you on you never see alwives near the peirs on the lk huron side. every year, off the thumb, they come in for about a month and then off/on thoughout the summer. Last year they were so thick that you were snagging them with husky jerks while trying to fish for walleyes off the breakwalls. this year, they have just started coming in after being delayed because of the cold water.

I personally think why you don't see as many big salmon as you use to is because alot of those fish are caught by summer trollers and more fish run early in there life, 2 year old fish spawning. there maybe tons of big kings, 30 plus pounders, that go unnoticed and untouched in some small river or they spawn in the near shore waters of lk huron. i don't think the forage is the cause of the smaller fish in lk huron, as there is lots of alwives around, at least off the thumb in lk huron.


----------



## bigmac (Nov 28, 2000)

That fish was a crossbreed between steelies from skamania wash. eggs and Atlantics(i think). They were the greatest fish to watch during battle. They never stayed in the water!!! I used to fish all june for them in the Au Sable using chartreuse spring's wigglers. I was told that they stopped planting them because as a result of the cross breeding they had no natural fertilization/egg production. Those were BIG fish


----------



## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Atlantics are Salmon, and Steelhead are Rainbow Trout. They cannot be cross-bred as far as I know. Genetically it would not work. Those were Skamania strain Steelhead, and they were all bruisers. I would fish straight 10 pound line, and it wasn't really heavy enough. Chartreuse spawn netting was the ticket for me.

They are catching Salmon in Lake Michigan that are going 20 pounds right now. Those fish would be huge by the end of Summer. It could be true that the Salmon return to the Ausable at a younger age, and are smaller for that reason. I would think there would be some fish that stayed for 4 years and got as large as so many fish from the lk Michigan side do - but they don't. The exception is Rogers City, where they plant 1 million Chinnies every year. It is further North than most people are willing to go, and they get some really large Salmon there. They also get a lot of small fish, too.


----------



## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

So do you guys think any skamania still run up or not? I think a few probably do, but maybe not. Some great answers and info on the river. Also, the DNR's supposed "natural spawning area" in the coffer is bull*****, there is little gravel in there, it's mostly broken up chunks of rock, and big slabs of concrete, so I don't know where they get the idea it's a spawning area. I watched hens attempt to dig beds in there this spring, all they kicked up was alittle bit of debris, it looked like dirt, I haven't really seen much of the coffer, maybe there's some gravel in the back, but as far as I'm concerned, it's stupid to close it to fishing.


----------



## YPSIFLY (Feb 13, 2001)

I read somewhere that Skamania are breeding with other strains and producing "weaker" fish. The offspring have a higher mortality rate with a lower rate of successful reproduction.

I don't know if this is true or not.


----------



## SALMONATOR (Jan 7, 2003)

That's pretty much what I remember reaing too YPSIEFLY. Something about not wanting to infect the steelhead geenpol with fish, though bigger on average, and big time fighters, are not as suited to the Great Lakes (gentically)as the Little Mannistee strain that run our rivers every fall and spring. There was a pretty good post on it a few monthes ago. 


http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=30873&highlight=skams 


Fishndude,

You are right and wrong. I'd find it hard to belive that steelies and Atlantics cross-breed too. Steelies are infact an anadromous secies of rainbow trout, but rainbow trout are not really trout at all. They are in the pacific salmon family (Oncorhynchus), where Atlantics (Salmo Salar), Though named "salmon", are not as closely related to the pacific salmon (chinook, coho, pink, etc.) as they are to the only true trout, the brown (Salmo Trutta). 

The only cross breeding I've heard of outside of families is a tiger trout (brook trout [char]/brown trout[trout]). other crossbreeds are usually of the same family, ie., splake (brook trout/lake trout [both chars]), pinooks (pinks/chinooks [both pacific salmon]), etc.

Al


----------



## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Survival was very limited.
I remember the returns and many would come floating down "belly up".

That river reaches the mid 70's during the summer and the only survivers were above the coffer and in the tailrace. A few would stack up at the Block House but be forced to hit the oxygenated water during the heat of the day. No thermal protection other than a few creeks that the fish can't run.

Unlike the Joe with cold water influence, like the Dow and several good size creeks, it probably didn't make sense.


----------



## GONE FISHIN(LARRY) (Dec 28, 2002)

hey jon a/s did you call the dnr to see what there answer is?just curious.


----------



## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

Not yet Lar, but I will.


----------

