# Two misses.



## TeamBuckshot (Aug 19, 2011)

The last two days I missed the same doe from a 20ft stand. The first day she was 15yards and I had my 20 yard pin on here shoulder. The release felt great yet I managed to hit her high. She dipped and I hit her on the back grazing her leaving a nasty scar. The 2nd day. The same doe walked in this time at 10yrds and I had my pin right on her shoulder and I completely missed her shooting over her back. 

I took alot of time this summer shooting at Targets yet all were from the ground. I have a very nice grouping at at 20 and 30 yrds. Is there something I should take into account from shooting from an elevated stand? Little help please. 


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## wildcoy73 (Mar 2, 2004)

I aim low brisket

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## broncbuster2 (Apr 15, 2000)

At that height you should be bending from the waist instead of dropping your arm down to aim.
I still aim for the heart out to 20 yards when that high, after that i think the shot is flat enough that you could take aim for center of the boiler room and get a killing shot....


just my .02


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## fishonjr (Feb 16, 2006)

Many shoot high from an elevated position. You said you practiced from the ground, but not from an elevated position? That usually makes a difference. Also, if the deer was 10yards, why would you use your 20 yard pin?


Sent from my fingertips


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## mbatson (Oct 10, 2010)

I smacked one tonight! 15 yards used the 20 and spined her  


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## KalamazooKid (Jun 20, 2005)

Learn from it. Ten yards, tree stand, 20 yard pin ........ Aim low.


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## Woodbutcher-1 (Nov 21, 2004)

Do the Animal a favor!
Practice , practice ,practice. When your done,
practice some more.


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## spankin eyes 2 (Dec 31, 2010)

This is what i do... I practice both on ground and tree... If a deer comes in at 20 yards i put my 20 pin almost to the belly line and that is dead money... There is a big diff from shooting on the ground and out of a tree... I very seldom practice on the ground because i'm always elevated.. My blind is 16ft up and most my stands are 20.and from one to the other the shot is diff... If possible start shooting from a elevated something and get the feel for it... Glad that wasnt a trophy for ya,,,and the last thing ya want is to wound a animal....little practice and youll be fine... Good luck to ya.. Spankin


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## Martian (Apr 28, 2011)

take the time and practice from elevated postion, at 3-d target,. Or put paper plates in a few different positions on ground go up and shoot them to figure your pins. This is better if you have a retriever for arrows, then switch with hi, bend at waist to keep upper body in same form


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## Joe Archer (Mar 29, 2000)

First - have you practiced with broadheads to be sure they shoot like field points? Second - why are you aiming at the shoulder? At 10-15 yards you should be behind the shoulder just about midline on the deer being sure that you will exit behind the far shoulder. Also, the doe could likely be jumping the string on you as well. 
As others have said - bend at the waist and practice a shot at that distance from your treestand to be sure you can hit where you are aiming. 
Every day that I don't shoot at a deer I take 4 practice shots (2 field tips, 2 practice broadheads) at various locations and distances (10 - 25 yards) around my stand. Whenever a deer shows up in one of my shooting lanes I will have already made that shot many times over and know exactly how to aim.
<----<<<


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## me_n_storm (Jan 12, 2005)

"Measure" the distance from the base of your tree to the deer. That distance is the correct pin. Your actual distance to the deer is irrelevant for pin choice. Then make sure you bend at the waist.


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## Outdoorsman17 (Dec 28, 2005)

TeamBuckshot said:


> The last two days I missed the same doe from a 20ft stand. The first day she was 15yards and I had my 20 yard pin on here shoulder. The release felt great yet I managed to hit her high. She dipped and I hit her on the back grazing her leaving a nasty scar. The 2nd day. The same doe walked in this time at 10yrds and I had my pin right on her shoulder and I completely missed her shooting over her back.
> 
> I took alot of time this summer shooting at Targets yet all were from the ground. I have a very nice grouping at at 20 and 30 yrds. Is there something I should take into account from shooting from an elevated stand? Little help please.
> 
> ...



Preparation is everything. You owe it to the game your hunting to practice and know your equipment. Try to learn from your experiences weather good or bad


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## dman11 (Jul 25, 2012)

Keep in mind when shooting from an elevated position your arrows will shoot much more straight or flat, not fighting gravity as much as it would when shooting at ground level. I always sight in at the same height I will hunt from, now where ever I put my pin on the deer, I know that's where my arrow will hit.


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## buck37 (Aug 8, 2002)

> Keep in mind when shooting from an elevated position your arrows will shoot much more straight or flat, not fighting gravity as much as it would when shooting at ground level.


This is incorrect. Gravity is constant. An arrow actually rises from your bow every time its released, its called trajectory.


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## kbkb (Jan 26, 2011)

Hey have you ever tried using a pendulum sight, I have one on my bow and it gives me alot more confidence when shooting from an elevated stand. 
Just a thought, good luck


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

kbkb said:


> Hey have you ever tried using a pendulum sight, I have one on my bow and it gives me alot more confidence when shooting from an elevated stand.
> Just a thought, good luck


Yep


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## dman11 (Jul 25, 2012)

"arrow rises once released"?!!! You must have your nock point to low, I prefer my arrows fly straight off my bow, and they do. If you wanna get technical and talk about trajectory then listen up, yes any object flying thru the air when pushed, thrown, or shot has its own trajectory, gravity effects trajectory the most of an object or in this case an arrow when shot parallel to the ground and has less of an effect when shot from an elevated angle in relative to the ground. It's simple physics, maybe you skipped that class!


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## Deerslayer23 (Oct 24, 2012)

Low and go is good to remember


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## buck37 (Aug 8, 2002)

dman11 said:


> "arrow rises once released"?!!! You must have your nock point to low, I prefer my arrows fly straight off my bow, and they do. If you wanna get technical and talk about trajectory then listen up, yes any object flying thru the air when pushed, thrown, or shot has its own trajectory, gravity effects trajectory the most of an object or in this case an arrow when shot parallel to the ground and has less of an effect when shot from an elevated angle in relative to the ground. It's simple physics, maybe you skipped that class!


ARROW TRAJECTORY





Understanding Arrow Trajectory

The slower the speed of a projectile, the more it will drop over the course of its flight. To compensate for this drop, a projectile must be fired in an arched path to successfully strike the intended target. The arrow starts below the archer's line of sight, rises above it, and then drops back to his line of sight at the target. This curve in an arrow's path between bow and target is known as trajectory.

Trajectory is a crucial concern in bowhunting because a bowhunter simply can't escape its effects. People who contend that modern bows are so fast they're almost like rifles simply don't understand trajectory. Trajectory is directly related to the speed of a projectile, and the very fastest bows shoot about 300 feet per second (fps) compared to the fast rifle at 3,000 fps. An arrow fired from such a bow has a greater trajectory over 30 yards than does a rifle bullet over 300 yards.

Instinctive shooters who must visualize the path of their arrows to the target know the importance of trajectory. But sight shooters with an understanding of trajectory find it easier to make good sight settings and are better able to avoid branches and other obstacles. And to accurately shoot uphill and downhill, an understanding of trajectory is essential.


But I guess you have it all figured out.


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## dman11 (Jul 25, 2012)

buck37 said:


> ARROW TRAJECTORY
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You still haven't proved that gravity doesn't affect trajectory at different angles, all you did was googled how an arrow has trajectory! Anyone who bow hunts knows that you have to have your bow tilt back a hair in order to put an arc on your arrow path, that's called trajectory. That same flight path or arc is different when shot at a higher angle or elevated position, it's not hard to have that all figured out, maybe for you. why don't you do a little more googling.


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## buck37 (Aug 8, 2002)

dman11 said:


> You still haven't proved that gravity doesn't affect trajectory at different angles, all you did was googled how an arrow has trajectory! Anyone who bow hunts knows that you have to have your bow tilt back a hair in order to put an arc on your arrow path, that's called trajectory. That same flight path or arc is different when shot at a higher angle or elevated position, it's not hard to have that all figured out, maybe for you. why don't you do a little more googling.


I really don't care to prove anything to you! I know my poi is the same standing on the ground or up in a tree so I must do something right. :lol: Lots of dead deer also would agree.


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## dman11 (Jul 25, 2012)

buck37 said:


> I really don't care to prove anything to you! I know my poi is the same standing on the ground or up in a tree so I must do something right. :lol: Lots of dead deer also would agree.


Hey that's great! But you said my original comment is wrong, and basically you're saying the laws of gravity and physics has it wrong, so I just thought you might know something that no one else doesn't, and was hoping you can tell me how I'm wrong.


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## buck37 (Aug 8, 2002)

dman11 said:


> Hey that's great! But you said my original comment is wrong, and basically you're saying the laws of gravity and physics has it wrong, so I just thought you might know something that no one else doesn't, and was hoping you can tell me how I'm wrong.


Just because you say it doesn't make you right. Check out the fact or fiction thread. You and I are not the only ones who disagree. http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=439350


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## FishKilla419 (Feb 22, 2008)

dman11 said:


> "arrow rises once released"?!!! You must have your nock point to low, I prefer my arrows fly straight off my bow, and they do. If you wanna get technical and talk about trajectory then listen up, yes any object flying thru the air when pushed, thrown, or shot has its own trajectory, gravity effects trajectory the most of an object or in this case an arrow when shot parallel to the ground and has less of an effect when shot from an elevated angle in relative to the ground. It's simple physics, maybe you skipped that class!
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Shoot a target from 6'. Where did you hit? 2 or 3 inches low? That's because your arrow hasn't reached the peak of its trajectory. It does not come straight off the bow. Nor does a bullet come straight out of the muzzle. Gravity is constant. I range a deer at 30 I slide my hha to 30. 35 I set it halfway between 30 and 40. I shoot my 3d target from the ground at 25 then climb up into a stand 25' off the ground. You guessed it dead nuts. Maybe your setup shoots differently.

Dude wheres your float?


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

First and foremost, put that friggin bow away until you have put in the time to shoot it accurately......then spent a little time learning when to shoot. 

If you are 20 feet in a tree shooting at a deer that is 15 yards away, much less 10 yards away you are darn near shooting straight down. Straight down requires that you bend at the waist and that you practice shooting from that position and know where your arrow is going to hit.

Secondly it changes where you are going to aim and greatly reduces the target size. Everything is critical, even which way the deer is facing. The straight down or darn near straight down shot is really the hardest.

If you have to hunt with a bow this year, then get in a tree, put your target at 20 yards and practice until you can accurate shoot a deer at twenty yards. Position your stand so that you have a 20 yard shot at your deer trail. Mark 20 yards before you climb the tree, then don't shoot anything any further or closer then 20 yards.


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

FishKilla419 said:


> Shoot a target from 6'. Where did you hit? 2 or 3 inches low? ?


 on a very close target i have to use my 60yd mark to hit the 14ring


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## dman11 (Jul 25, 2012)

buck37 said:


> Just because you say it doesn't make you right. Check out the fact or fiction thread. You and I are not the only ones who disagree. http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=439350


How can anyone argue with the laws of physics?!! I'm not saying it because it's my opinion, I'm saying it because it's a fact! It's simple physics. Did you ever take a physics class? I've taken several, there's no denying the facts. So when you say that your poi is the same, sorry but not buying that at all, I know for a fact that your poi is different given the speed and distance and angle you're shooting from vs. at ground level, how much of a difference?... I don't know but I know it's not the same. Maybe you don't realize it because theres not much of a difference so your convinced that the arrow path and arc is the same at ground and elevated, but it's not. It maybe a huge difference for someone else maybe because the arrow is traveling much slower or faster, but it's always going to be different.


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## buck37 (Aug 8, 2002)

dman11 said:


> How can anyone argue with the laws of physics?!! I'm not saying it because it's my opinion, I'm saying it because it's a fact! It's simple physics. Did you ever take a physics class? I've taken several, there's no denying the facts. So when you say that your poi is the same, sorry but not buying that at all, I know for a fact that your poi is different given the speed and distance and angle you're shooting from vs. at ground level, how much of a difference?... I don't know but I know it's not the same. Maybe you don't realize it because theres not much of a difference so your convinced that the arrow path and arc is the same at ground and elevated, but it's not. It maybe a huge difference for someone else maybe because the arrow is traveling much slower or faster, but it's always going to be different.


Physics, yeah 30 years ago. :lol: The last 30 years I've been killing deer with my bow where my poi is the same whether I'm on the ground or up in a tree. If you don't believe me, I don't care.:SHOCKED: Have a good day!

Actually I had time to look into this, you are correct. Arrows do gain velocity when being shot downhill or out of a tree!! Due to the initial negative vertical vector when shot out of a tree. Sorry dman11 i guess I will check first next time. Thought it was one of those sayings.:banghead3


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## dman11 (Jul 25, 2012)

FishKilla419 said:


> Shoot a target from 6'. Where did you hit? 2 or 3 inches low? That's because your arrow hasn't reached the peak of its trajectory. It does not come straight off the bow. Nor does a bullet come straight out of the muzzle. Gravity is constant. I range a deer at 30 I slide my hha to 30. 35 I set it halfway between 30 and 40. I shoot my 3d target from the ground at 25 then climb up into a stand 25' off the ground. You guessed it dead nuts. Maybe your setup shoots differently.
> 
> Dude wheres your float?


Think about it for a sec, why does your arrow hit low at 6'? it's because your arrow is positioned on a bow at least 3" to 4" below the sight. An arrow needs to be at the most perpendicular to the string making it come off the bow straight, otherwise your gonna have wobble in your arrow. The reason it rises from your bow once it's released is because without you realizing it, at full draw, your bow is slightly tilt back a bit to compensate for trajectory. Your arrow does come off your bow straight, it does not come off your bow and then begins to rise you're just releasing that arrow at an upward angle already. It's the same with a bullet, but the trajectory is way more flat than an arrow. Bullets and arrows will always have an arc in their path once they are shot, but that path will always start straight and then arc downward, that's where gravity is constant and that's why you have to compensate for the trajectory, the longer the shot the higher you will have to angle your bow or gun.

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## Hoyt_em (Aug 2, 2008)

dman11 said:


> "arrow rises once released"?!!! You must have your nock point to low, I prefer my arrows fly straight off my bow, and they do. If you wanna get technical and talk about trajectory then listen up, yes any object flying thru the air when pushed, thrown, or shot has its own trajectory, gravity effects trajectory the most of an object or in this case an arrow when shot parallel to the ground and has less of an effect when shot from an elevated angle in relative to the ground. It's simple physics, maybe you skipped that class!
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


ARCHery...


...the physics is there to change arrow flight to some degree, but it is so insignificant that I doubt it's visual or practical at bowhunting distances. 

If your form is good shooting out of a tree. (no arm dropping, and a good bend at the waist/hips)and your POI will be the same. 





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## grapestomper (Jan 9, 2012)

I shoot a pendulum sight. It is awesome. 
Good to 30 yards from the tree. I don't know of a better way 
to shoot from a tree.


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## FishKilla419 (Feb 22, 2008)

Hoyt_em said:


> ARCHery...
> 
> 
> ...the physics is there to change arrow flight to some degree, but it is so insignificant that I doubt it's visual or practical at bowhunting distances.
> ...


Exactly. Range finder, pick up hoyt, dead deer. 

Dude wheres your float?


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## wolfgang510 (Feb 15, 2001)

Very common with 10-15 yard tree stand shots to hit deer high with 20 yard pin. There are many reasons for this. 

One thing that helped me was drawing a thin black line on my target and using my 20 yard pin I started at 5 yards and worked back to 25 shooting an arrow every couple yards only aiming for the horizontal thin line and not worrying about left or right. I found out my pin was actually about a 22yard pin. Being off even a little with the 20 yard pin can make a big change in trajectory. I couldn't believe how high I was hitting at the maximum height of trajectory (If I recall it was around 12 yards). I switched to 17 yards for my top pin so I'm shooting flatter now. 

Deer often "duck" at the sound of the shot.

The profile of the deer appears much smaller from an angle and it is very easy to accidentally aim higher on the deer than you mean to. This is where shooting from an elevated position at 3D targets really helps.

Last variable I think is least important deals with gravity and shot distance. Obviously the distance from "hunter" to "deer" will be a little longer than the distance from "base of tree" to "deer." However shooting down hill will have the effect of raising the point of impact. 

I have never been good enough to notice POI changes switching from ground to tree stand but I usually hunt under 20 feet up and I haven't practiced much straight down and out to 5 yard shots.

I do have a new spot 18 foot up a tree and one of the deer trails is down a steep hill so I am looking at shots with deer 30-40 feet below me. This thread has me worried about that potential shot.


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## [email protected] (Mar 13, 2012)

fishonjr said:


> Many shoot high from an elevated position. You said you practiced from the ground, but not from an elevated position? That usually makes a difference. Also, if the deer was 10yards, why would you use your 20 yard pin?
> 
> 
> Sent from my fingertips


Todays bows, one pin 5-30 yrds. Even my old junker Clearwater will do it. Thanx carbon arrows Shrubby


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## nodeer (Nov 22, 2010)

Most everyone practices on the ground shooting horizontal. In a tree stand, BEND FROM THE WASTE WHEN SHOOTING--DON'T BEND YOUR ARMS. 

The end.


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## wolfgang510 (Feb 15, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> Todays bows, one pin 5-30 yrds. Even my old junker Clearwater will do it. Thanx carbon arrows Shrubby
> 
> 
> Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


I got you beat. 1 pin dead on around 1 yard and still dead on at 40. Never mind the fact it is a foot high at 20 yards.


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## Btek (Jul 15, 2010)

I never had to take physics, but I had the common sense to* practice shooting at elevated heights* as well as on flat ground. Doing it enough that I was extremely confident in my shooting before climbing into my stand to poke a deer.


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## newaygogeorge (Aug 16, 2006)

First off I am in no way a physics or archery expert and I will not beat you up cause we all miss from time to time got some stones for posting it. If all you posted is true and you practiced all summer, *I might eliminate issues* *with your bow*. have you had to adjust pins prior to the season for no real apparent reason, sometimes simple string stretch can cause inconsistent placement. It happened to me last year took the my bow this past spring to Vans had Ron look it over found out my string stretched, new string re-sighted pins and bam back in buisness. Just a thought good luck


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## lostontheice (Feb 18, 2011)

nodeer said:


> Most everyone practices on the ground shooting horizontal. In a tree stand, BEND FROM THE WASTE WHEN SHOOTING--DON'T BEND YOUR ARMS.
> 
> The end.


take note of this..and stick it to the limbs of your bows..i dont care what "toys" you have on your bow,they wont help you if your form is off..keep to the basics and keep it simple..most hunters forget to breath when a deer walks in,so math is not going to happen..draw strait like normal,get your anchor point,then bend at waste to put pin on deer,aim for same spot you would from ground,exhale and release..


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## upnorthsds (Dec 15, 2008)

Take a few shots out of your stand during the slow hours of your hunt. It doesn't make that much noise to loft an arrow. And dont forget to shoot a field point and not a blade. It's also fun shooting at squirrels and such out of the stand. Good practice and you get lunch out of the deal lol. 


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## rangefinder (Feb 9, 2008)

if your not using a peep your dropping your arm which makes the shot high. Either say seated which will make you bend or go to using a peep


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## sniperx043 (Nov 27, 2012)

Draw, anchor, bend as waist, aim for where u want the arrow to exit, breath, squeeze trigger.. arrow will go where its supposed to everytime

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## shoelessjoe (Dec 13, 2012)

you've got the hard part done, you've got deer in front of you close enough to shoot. He was at 15 yds @ 20' missing low, you two get together, and you got 2 dead deer, splitting the difference.


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## FullDrawProd (Dec 18, 2012)

As long as you bend at the waist instead of lowering your arm to account for the elevation, youll be fine. The arrow will go where it is supposed to. Many people hit high when they dont bend at the waist. I have never had this problem myself because i have always bent at the waist without even thinking about it, almost instinctively. From watching my friends shoot their bows from raised platforms, i know that if you lower arm instead of bending waist, your arrow will most likely go high. Another thing you should do is make sure you are squeezing your trigger with a nice, even pressure... not "pulling" it.. its the little things that make the biggest difference! Hope this helps, good luck hunting!


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