# the next Exotic is here



## mrymar (May 9, 2002)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080815/ap_on_sc/sci_lake_michigan_invasive_snail


----------



## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

Just got done reading that article, man it makes you wonder whats next? Unfortunately, it seems that our lakes are in big trouble from these invasives.


----------



## Boardman Brookies (Dec 20, 2007)

great......


----------



## Carpmaster (Apr 1, 2004)

Nice.


----------



## salmon_slayer06 (Mar 19, 2006)

mud snails? COME ON!!!!!!!


----------



## FishHawk22 (Aug 2, 2007)

I'm sure they are in every Great Lake, but not one in Lake Huron...


----------



## Fishous (Aug 24, 2005)

:rant: Dangit, when are we going to get something nice as an invasive species, like King Crab or something.


----------



## Fletch09 (Jun 4, 2002)

Sweet, something else to eat out the lakes from the bottom up. Unbelievable.


----------



## wapiti777 (Jan 18, 2008)

Maybe the Gobies will eat em...


----------



## Ralph Smith (Apr 1, 2003)

I think there's too much hype on all these invasive species. Come on, the article say the gobies are thriving because they now are eating the zebra mussles(sounds like nature finds away). And just about every game fish out there are eating gobies, even perch. Now this tiny snail I think will fit in nicely, just about the right size for the small perch and alewives to start thriving on. The lakes will adjust and adapt, as they have for thousands of years. Just think where all these things come from overseas, is there no fish? Nature will take care of itself, man just has to realize they can't and never will be able to control it, and it will evolve over and over again and new species will thrive while all others fall and the cycle will continue as it has through time. Enjoy what we have and adapt to whats there before its gone.


----------



## fishlkmich (Sep 18, 2002)

Ralph Smith said:


> I think there's too much hype on all these invasive species. Come on, the article say the gobies are thriving because they now are eating the zebra mussles(sounds like nature finds away). And just about every game fish out there are eating gobies, even perch. Now this tiny snail I think will fit in nicely, just about the right size for the small perch and alewives to start thriving on. The lakes will adjust and adapt, as they have for thousands of years. Just think where all these things come from overseas, is there no fish? Nature will take care of itself, man just has to realize they can't and never will be able to control it, and it will evolve over and over again and new species will thrive while all others fall and the cycle will continue as it has through time. Enjoy what we have and adapt to whats there before its gone.


Evolution, adaptation and nature have absolutely nothing to do with this. Man is "controlling nature" in the Great Lakes and has been ever since the introduction of ocean going freighters and a path for exotic species to enter this ecosystem. The last time I looked I believe that we now have 128 exotic species in the Great Lakes. We have new non-native species entering our waters every year. It isn't natural. There isn't time for species to evolve or adapt to a constant introduction of new predators, filter feeders, zooplankton . . . This isn't something that we will be able to rectify. It wasn't that long ago when you could catch a bucket full of Cisco off of the St. Joseph pier. Try to catch one anywhere in Lake Michigan now. Until we find some new vacuum sucking, mussel eating sport fish things will continue to go downhill. Maybe we can all outfit our boats for bottom trawling and find some good recipes for Quagga Mussels.


----------



## Brown duck (Dec 16, 2005)

Ralph Smith said:


> I think there's too much hype on all these invasive species. Come on, the article say the gobies are thriving because they now are eating the zebra mussles(sounds like nature finds away). And just about every game fish out there are eating gobies, even perch. Now this tiny snail I think will fit in nicely, just about the right size for the small perch and alewives to start thriving on. The lakes will adjust and adapt, as they have for thousands of years. Just think where all these things come from overseas, is there no fish? Nature will take care of itself, man just has to realize they can't and never will be able to control it, and it will evolve over and over again and new species will thrive while all others fall and the cycle will continue as it has through time. Enjoy what we have and adapt to whats there before its gone.


 You really can't look just at what is in place to feed on the potential probem species. You really have to look at other biological or environmental checks in place where the invasive originates. It could be another similar species filling some niche that is not being filled in the GL or a specific water temperature that could allow for this species to thrive and become a problem. Any species brought into a foreign ecosystem has the potential to throw things out of whack. 

It could very well be that this particular species won't present a big problem, or it could be that the natives we have will adapt to the presence of this new species, but we can't be naive enough to think it will happen overnight. Best case scenario: foreign species stay where they're intended to.


----------



## Fishous (Aug 24, 2005)

Ralph Smith said:


> I think there's too much hype on all these invasive species. Come on, the article say the gobies are thriving because they now are eating the zebra mussles(sounds like nature finds away). And just about every game fish out there are eating gobies, even perch. Now this tiny snail I think will fit in nicely, just about the right size for the small perch and alewives to start thriving on. The lakes will adjust and adapt, as they have for thousands of years. Just think where all these things come from overseas, is there no fish? Nature will take care of itself, man just has to realize they can't and never will be able to control it, and it will evolve over and over again and new species will thrive while all others fall and the cycle will continue as it has through time. Enjoy what we have and adapt to whats there before its gone.


If you think that, just go ask the people down south what they think of the Asian Carp in the rivers. They can't even go above no wake speeds without getting beaned in the head with a 30 lb fish.

See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyPaxIpoyM0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb8OmEr7VqI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS7zkTnQVaM


----------



## AL D. (Feb 18, 2003)

Snails? Please pass the garlic butter and lemon please. Al:corkysm55


----------



## fishlkmich (Sep 18, 2002)

AL D. said:


> Snails? Please pass the garlic butter and lemon please. Al:corkysm55


AND, a VERY small fork . . .

"They grow to only a few millimeters  several dozen could sit on the surface of a dime  making them hard to spot."


----------



## Ralph Smith (Apr 1, 2003)

Fishous said:


> If you think that, just go ask the people down south what they think of the Asian Carp in the rivers. They can't even go above no wake speeds without getting beaned in the head with a 30 lb fish.
> 
> See:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyPaxIpoyM0
> ...


the Asian carp may be a different story due to their size, but yes it may take awhile but the lakes will adapt. Salmon,rainbows,browns were all non native to the great lakes. Just my opinion, but I think they should be left to naturally evolve. I like salmon as much as the next guy, but we have enough predatory fish in our system that something I think will step up and things balance out eventually. Too much human interferrence just keeps things artificial. 

In the Asian carp case, instead of trying to figure a way to get rid of them, they should find a purpose for them, such as catfood/fertilizer or whatever, and allow unlimited commercial netting of the things. There has to be a use, wonder how they would be canned and shipped to Africa to fee all those starving people all over there. I know that may be a far fetched solution, but as humans, we hate to admit that we can't control something, instead of just accepting what has happened and use it to our benefit.


----------



## fishlkmich (Sep 18, 2002)

Ralph Smith said:


> the Asian carp may be a different story due to their size, but yes it may take awhile but the lakes will adapt. Salmon,rainbows,browns were all non native to the great lakes. Just my opinion, but I think they should be left to naturally evolve. I like salmon as much as the next guy, but we have enough predatory fish in our system that something I think will step up and things balance out eventually. Too much human interferrence just keeps things artificial.
> 
> In the Asian carp case, instead of trying to figure a way to get rid of them, they should find a purpose for them, such as catfood/fertilizer or whatever, and allow unlimited commercial netting of the things. There has to be a use, wonder how they would be canned and shipped to Africa to fee all those starving people all over there. I know that may be a far fetched solution, but as humans, we hate to admit that we can't control something, instead of just accepting what has happened and use it to our benefit.


So, you don't think that we should have planted Salmon in the Great Lakes to begin with? No steelhead or Browns, either? What would you have done to "naturally" remove Alewife from the Great Lakes in the numbers that these fish have? How would you have "naturally" controlled Lamprey Eel? Would you not have introduced Smelt, which are not native? What is this "something" that you think may "step up"? Will it be a gift from the heavens?

Who is going to pay the commercial fishermen to catch Asian Carp? Who is going to pay the people needed to clean and can them? Who is going to pay to ship them? Taxpayers? Churches? The starving children in Africa sure aren't! Commercial fishing would only minimally reduce the numbers of Asian Carp, anyway.

As humans, we are proud that we can control things. The Alewife/Salmon solution is a shining example. Lampricide works well at controlling the numbers of Lamprey Eels. What we hate to admit is that we are beaten. I won't throw in the towel because there is a new snail in the Great Lakes. I don't believe that we have enough predators in the Great Lakes. I'd love to see a heck of a lot more Browns planted. Steelhead, too. They both seem to like the taste of Gobies. I'd rather catch Steelhead and Browns than Gobies. 

If you want to stop planting fish for an experiment, what happens if it blows up on you? Lamprey Eels become abundant because you don't want to control anything. Now the predators are really in trouble. Alewife explode and litter the beaches again. We have to go back to front end loaders and dump trucks to get them off of our beaches again. The charter business dries up and more people in Michigan are out of work. The sport fishery dies and a billion dollar tourism draw is toast, putting more people out of work. I don't see any Shang-ra-la in this picture.


----------



## fathom this (Feb 10, 2008)

For all the guys out there who think invasive species will be gobbled up in time.
Look at the lampray!!!! My son works for the USFS on the Great Lakes Lampray control
program. Without their control program ( they kill millions of imature lampray every year )
we wold have no fishery to talk about on this forum. We should take every measure necessary to stop and controll any and all invaders. 
WE ARE THE PROTECTORS OF THE LAKES


----------



## fathom this (Feb 10, 2008)

For all the guys out there who think invasive species will be gobbled up in time.
Look at the lampray!!!! My son works for the USFS on the Great Lakes Lampray control
program. Without their control program ( they kill millions of imature lampray every year )
we wold have no fishery to talk about on this forum. We should take every measure necessary to stop and controll any and all invaders. 
WE ARE THE PROTECTORS OF THE LAKES.


----------

