# Mini Property Management



## DaWiz9578 (Dec 9, 2018)

Hey all,

First post, new to the state and the forum.

I purchase a home on ~8 acres with ~5.5 wooded in Monroe County. Ive been trying to work with the USDA on getting a forester out here to determine if this is enough land to manage and if so what I should do. Anyways, working with them has been like swimming through molasses, so Im offering it up to you guys to lend me some advice. 

My initial thought when walking the woods is that they are too crowded and choking eachother out so there would be no way to get large mature trees and my plan was to thin out anything under 6" diameter or within a 6-8 ft radius of another mature tree. After doing some research on habitat improvement, it doesnt seem like you always want mature trees (oaks of course, but others should be low to provide browsing leaves and branches) depending on the type of habitat youre trying to create. I have also found that a controlled burn may not be a big undertaking, relatively speaking, given the small size of the parcel to remove the 3-4" of leaves and limbs on the ground to allow new growth. Just looking for some input on simple (conceptually) improvements that would help in bringing in deer, turkey, etc. I already have these species showing up just not as frequently as they could be with some improvements I feel. 

My neighbor to the north hunts for deer (buck "trophy" and doe), but traffic is very minimal so Ive decided next year to open myself up to public land as plans b, c, etc. depending on the winds. The tree farmer behind us (trees, bushes, crops he plants a little of everything) also hunts, but says he only takes bucks. Not sure if that means only a monroe county "trophy" or spike and up (his form of herd management?). 

The woods are made up of mostly maples ~40%, sassafras 25%, poplar 25% and several types of oaks 10%. Trunk distribution would probably be 50% <4", 25% 6-8", 25% >10". It gets swampy in the back 1/3 in the spring where the more mature trees are located. Majority of deer stick to the back of my property with the random lone ranger coming to the front 1/3 every once in awhile. I believe they bed in my neighbors to the south as his woods are much younger and thicker (would be hard to even walk through). The overall block of woods the deer are connected to would probably be ~75 acres surrounded by Ag of some sort with houses sprinkled in. 

Not sure if this is enough to go on to give some good advice, but let me know what you guys think, or point me in the direction of getting professional opinions. Much appreciated in advance.


----------



## Forest Meister (Mar 7, 2010)

You provided a lot of info but there is no substitute for boots on the ground. That said, both trees and shrubs do best when they receive copious quantities of sunlight. If little or none is reaching the forest floor after the trees are fully leafed out the area is definitely too dense for optimum growth. FM


----------



## Hear fishy fishy (Feb 9, 2013)

Fresh cutting are one of the best habitats for whitetails. Hinge cuts work also but not as effective on stem count. Try and make a bedding area and trails leading out to a food plot. Plan everything so the ideal winds are in your favor for hunting and accessing your stand. Keep in mind thermals also.


----------



## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Having maple and poplar second growth would be great. 
Dropping maple and poplar will cause a bit of that. Downed timber is structure and crude cover to start. You can research hinge cutting and it's results to and see if it interests you too.

Your mention of having options makes good sense. So not to hunt your home site during the wrong conditions , or too much.

Take your time in designing a plan. All short term plans should compliment long term plans.
No rush! Plenty to do.
Study other lands managed for deer movement. An example would be multiple spots to grab a snack in the evening just before dark. And those spots can all be on a meandering trail or trails wandering inside the perimeter of your property. A trail can be a shooting lane. And can be planted too.

Creating thick brushy type cover beats clearing the deck and turning everything into a field.
A 1/10 of the property cleared is enough to plant to start. And again that total can be from multiple patches of ground combined.

Welcome to Michigan.
Congrats on a parcel you can enjoy.


----------



## DaWiz9578 (Dec 9, 2018)

Thanks for all the input. I'll do some more research into what you've mentioned above and keep everyone posted. Like you said no hurry for such a long term project, dont want to rush into it and make a mistake that will impede progress of my goals. 

Sent from my SM-J337V using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

Gun blind right in the center of your yard behind the house. Make 3 shooting lanes, one straight, two at a angle. Start from there with the lanes planted with Dutch Clover. Welcome to Michigan, what state are you coming from?


----------



## DaWiz9578 (Dec 9, 2018)

Chessieman said:


> Gun blind right in the center of your yard behind the house. Make 3 shooting lanes, one straight, two at a angle. Start from there with the lanes planted with Dutch Clover. Welcome to Michigan, what state are you coming from?


Houston, tx. Originally from Ohio, but move to texas a while ago. Just back to the midwest and new to michigan. 

Sent from my SM-J337V using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## anon02032020 (Oct 2, 2003)

Just did selective cut four years ago. Wish it was a total clear cut. Nobody would buy jumbo white pine some 100 footers. Deer hunting is now better than ever.


----------



## DaWiz9578 (Dec 9, 2018)

Anyone has any input on this? https://extremedeerhabitat.com/buy-the-book/

He specifically says small property management and in one of his videos mentions less than 10 acres. 

I still take flights back and forth to houston about once a month and started reading as an ebook

https://www.amazon.com/White-tailed...=jeff+sturgis&qid=1552053059&s=gateway&sr=8-5

but seemed geared towards larger parcels, minimum of 20 acres. 

The clearing lanes and setting a blind still sounds like the fool proof quick fix. I also purchased a saddle ill be trying this year (more for public mobility) so may sneak to the back of my property where I think more action is at a couple times if conditions are right and get up high for an all day sit.


----------



## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

You will learn more sitting back there watching were the natural flow or were you want to bribe the deer to your place before you everything is planted.


----------



## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

DaWiz9578 said:


> Anyone has any input on this? https://extremedeerhabitat.com/buy-the-book/
> 
> He specifically says small property management and in one of his videos mentions less than 10 acres.
> 
> ...


Bio's book I have not read. (I'm a paper book type.)
He does have some great insights though.
Most habitat book guys do.

Property size has to consider what is around it and the hows and whys of deer use apply.
Different size parcels can relate or oppose each other.
Percentage of plots/ag is an example. Percentage in a generalization can be 10% , but again ;what is around it?
Keeping a buck busy on a parcel. Trail design. Plot connections. Stem count in security cover or travel routes...

You can gain something from every habitat guru. 
Knowledge of deer response to alterations , and what alterations are part of a birdseye view of a deers range need to be balanced with what exists currently. And with what could exist. And the hows and whys that go along with changes.

One item mentioned by one of the authors of a E- book you mention is holding /bedding deer , vs their passing through between bedding and evening destinations. (And reversing in A.M..) I don't know if that is in his book. Plenty of other notes will be. One insight that fits your site will be enough to make it worthwhile.
That item mentioned is that consideration on a small property can be in not trying to feed many deer , and be overwhelmed by lack of browse/lack of carrying capacity.
But again ,what surrounds the property factors. A ploy here might not be a draw beyond a resident doe and her associates. A plot there might draw deer from afar.

Good transitional cover on the "in betweens" of normal deer movement can be enough on one site , and a low success proposition on another.
Studying the deer in your area and figuring out what they lack can be telling.
As can their routes throughout the year and how they relate to what surrounds you.
Diverting deer easy on one site can be herding cats on another.
But all sites (almost) can be enhanced for both deer and hunter considerations, and traffic flow.


----------



## ezcaller (Feb 21, 2009)

As stated take your time planning. What are your neighbors doing and what do they offer the deer. Cover is the one thing that takes time to create if you already have it, your ahead of the game. Plan accordingly, water and food are a relatively quick fix and be realistic in your expectations on a small parcel by knowing the deer population in your area.


----------



## smith34 (Feb 2, 2009)

Both books you mention are more than worth your time to read! Small acreage will give you 2 things to put your main focus on in order to have success: access, cover and access (ok, so 3 things) Those will be the most important items for you.


----------



## DaWiz9578 (Dec 9, 2018)

short term, im going to clear a couple of shooting lanes with the blind. nothing too crazy just thinning some trees. Im transplanting some trees to my front yard anyways for a break between my neighbors. 

in the mean time ill switch my trail cameras around and try to map all travel routes/times, while reading these books to try and see what could apply to my area. Next season ill have a better chance to sit back there a few days and watch day time activity. also track more throughout all snowfalls because I dont plan on hunting my area during snowfall periods, but well see. 

appreciate the feedback everyone, keep it coming if you have anymore input.:woohoo1:


----------



## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

I would still get 100 pine trees from your SCD this spring and put in. That way you can see how they survive and grow. Deer will run to cover (dark pines) when pressured. If you have a large SCD they probably sell the trees at their pickup site so you can get a variety and start training the kids to water your trees!


----------



## anon02032020 (Oct 2, 2003)

Buy your seedlings from a tree nursery. Buy 3 2 trans plants. Don't waist your time with 1 0 or 2 0 trees. Find our what I am talking about. You should be paying over a dollar a tree. I wish someone told me this. Remember pine loose lower branches quicker but grow faster. Do not space any closer than 15 feet per tree. Deer are plain lazy. Just make your own runways where you want the deer to travel and they will follow the route you want.


----------



## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

I have to disagree with you. Of course our SCD is the biggest in the state so the trees are bigger. The 3-0 pines are 18" above ground and you must trim half of the roots. I use to use the transplants and once they start to fade, they are DOA. The first year you must water the trees when planting enough to get the Oxygen out of the ground. Plan on watering this fresh trees twice during the summer. You must not prune your Pines or Spruce if you have no lower branches. Pruning is no big deal and is done anytime in the winter months. If you just want a crap shoot after doing all the work of planting, go for it, you get what you put into it. I have put in thousands of pines, I now prune the natural reseeded trees with no snow on the ground. Lot more than I have time for. I still put in new a hundred or more a year in those areas that I did not envision needed to be blinded!


----------



## Dish7 (Apr 2, 2017)

Chessieman said:


> *You will learn more sitting back there watching were the natural flow*


Plan 90% of what you do around Chessieman's statement and you will be ahead of the game. Accentuate what the deer already want to use. Good luck. JMO.


----------



## anon02032020 (Oct 2, 2003)

Hey chessie. Simple math says 5 is greater than 3. So if you are telling me planting a two years younger tree is stronger than a planting a two years older tree go back to school. Your wrong. The root base on the 3 2 transplant far exceeds a 3 0. I would rather plant a tree going into it's 6th year of life instead of it's 4 th year. Omg


----------



## bradym54 (Oct 8, 2008)

That area is heavily hunted but there is big ones that make it through every year. Just a couple years back a 178" clean 8 pointer was taken very close to you.


----------

