# Coyote Hunting with Dogs question.



## Velgang (Jan 17, 2004)

I am a Rabbit hunter after the first of Jan. I have been most of my life. The last two years I have seen an increase in Coyote Hunting with dogs in the area that I Rabbit hunt on. 
It sure seems like a ton of fun to listen and watch the dogs work on a Coyote. Must be like Hunting behind a good Beagle after a Cottontail. 
Where I grew up ( Just north of Petoskey-Oden) we hunted snowshoe hares. They were hunted on state and National forest land that was very large. The snowshoe hares would sometimes run a circle of almost a mile.
Now I live here in southern-mid Michigan and hunt Cottontails that run for the most part small circles. My main Bunny hot spot is 40 acres, both of my beagles stay on the 40 90% of the time. Once in a while they will run a rabbit off the corner of the 40 and get it back within a few minutes.
My question about Coyote hunting in mid-southern Michigan with dogs is;

Do the Coyotes stay on the parcel of land that the dogs are turned loose on? Say, they were let go on an 80 acre parcel. How long before the Coyote is on the next parcel or the parcel after that before it is shot or shot at? Do you have to go to all the surrounding land owners that morning and get permission to shoot or walk on thier property before you even let one dog loose? 
In the last two years I have "met up with" people hunting Coyotes on the 40 acre parcel where I and only I have permission to hunt. The People said they turned there dogs loose an couple parcels over. The 80 acre section they let their dogs loose on had at the most 10 acres of woods on it. I dont know a lot about Coyotes, but with only 10 acres of woods it wont be long before the Coyote is onto the next property.
To me, hunting Coyotes in southern Michigan with dogs, is like hunting rabbits in a sub-division. 
Please understand this IS NOT a bash against Coyote hunters or Coyote hunting with dogs. It is just a question......

Thanks, Big Joe


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## griffondog (Dec 27, 2005)

Well big Joe you already know the answer so I'm not going to bother with that old story.

There are lots of spots in lower Michigan you can run dogs without trespassing problems. All outdoor groups have a few bad apples in them just like the guys you ran into. If you don't want them trespassing on your property call the Co's on them.

Some guys will tell you a few dog tracks on your land won't hurt you and most will try to honor your wishes.

Griff


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## rc2125 (Dec 3, 2008)

Velgang said:


> Do the Coyotes stay on the parcel of land that the dogs are turned loose on? Say, they were let go on an 80 acre parcel. How long before the Coyote is on the next parcel or the parcel after that before it is shot or shot at?


However long it would take a dog to sprint across that 80 acre parcel........could be just 20 seconds or so!




Velgang said:


> Do you have to go to all the surrounding land owners that morning and get permission to shoot or walk on thier property before you even let one dog loose?


You should, but it seems that in southern michigan not everyone bothers to(at least SW side here). There is the loophole (that gets taken advantage of) that allows anyone to "retrieve" they're dog off private property without permission. There is also the law that states if any dog is seen running game on your property, you can shoot it. I for one, would not risk my dog being shot by someone by knowingly turning one loose anywhere near private properties I didn't have permission to run. Unless you are certain the dogs won't run private ground, you shouldn't turn them loose. If, for some reason, there are coyote chase dogs illegally running your property, the DNR won't get involved, they'll tell you to call the county dog pound. 
I look at it like this, If the target animal were pheasant instead of coyotes, it would be like turning loose a few bird dogs on property you have permission to hunt, in hopes of them running some birds off the property you don't have permission to hunt, so you can shoot them on the property you do have permission on. If that were the case, you can bet your rear that the DNR would be there in force. 

If there were large enough areas to run coyotes around here, I would probably be set up to do it, but there is not, so I don't.


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## griffondog (Dec 27, 2005)

Rc2125

You shouldn't post stuff that you have only heard as hearsay. You have no rights to shoot any dog for running game or trespassing on your land.

Once a person has been warned not to trespass on your property they have no rights to enter or retrieve a dog again. All you have to do is get someone to enforce it.

Griff


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

We have some of the bad apples that opperate in our area. One of the biggest reasons they do so, is that we are right smack on the line between districts. Digital cameras and cell phones are the best tool for these kinds of jobs and when taking pictures, get as many as possible of the guy in the chair in the back of the truck with good identifiable landmarks; drivers, license plates, dogs etc. will all help too. You have to be a landowner or have his written assignment in order to prosecute for trespassing.

....and Griff is correct, shoot someone's dog, irreguardless of trespassing or running off game and it'll cost you $$ and maybe time in jail.


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## rc2125 (Dec 3, 2008)

Normally I'm dead on, in reference to the law, went back and double checked, I was off a bit:

"Any person including a law enforcement officer may kill any dog which he sees in the act of pursuing, worrying, or wounding any livestock or poultry or attacking persons, and there shall be no liability on such person in damages or otherwise, for such killing."

Just for livestock, I though it said wildlife, in general. 



It was only a law enforcement that:

"A law enforcement officer may kill a dog determined to be molesting wildlife and not hunting as defined in this act."


Tough keeping track of all the goofy rules for 3 different states!


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## Frantz (Dec 9, 2003)

The dogs do travel, and travel a long way, and then back, and then the other way, and back again. I have no clue how they stay moving as long as they do when I hear and see them. 

If you do run your dogs, do not be like the immoral jerk offs that run their dogs in Millbrook Township. Take the time to ask permission if you need to gt your dogs and do not use your dogs as an excuse to blatantly trespass. Be a good sportsman and respect others and you will probably never even know that the CO's exist.


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## jnracing (Nov 26, 2008)

i will tell you this if a hound that is ukc registered is shot just for harrasing wildlife or if someone takes their tracking collar off i have read many instances where the ukc brig i there lawyers there was oe such case i believe i north carolia where the landowners refused to let the dogs owners retrieve their dog kiled two gyps and mortally wounded another ukc represented those houdsman needles to say the owers of the houds got restituition for all litters that could have been reaered the price of the dog and they ow own the property it occured on im ot sayig every case is this harsh as these were gr.nitch gyps but it is jail time for removing a trackig collar and animal cruelty charges will be enforced alog with fines and stuff for the dog


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## Rooster Cogburn (Nov 5, 2007)

If someone kills a dog for simply "trespassing" on their land, call in the State Police and have them prosecuted under Michigan's animal cruelty statute. Maximum penalty is up to 8 years in jail for killing a dog.


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## Frantz (Dec 9, 2003)

jnracing said:


> i will tell you this if a hound that is ukc registered is shot just for harrasing wildlife or if someone takes their tracking collar off i have read many instances where the ukc brig i there lawyers there was oe such case i believe i north carolia where the landowners refused to let the dogs owners retrieve their dog kiled two gyps and mortally wounded another ukc represented those houdsman needles to say the owers of the houds got restituition for all litters that could have been reaered the price of the dog and they ow own the property it occured on im ot sayig every case is this harsh as these were gr.nitch gyps but it is jail time for removing a trackig collar and animal cruelty charges will be enforced alog with fines and stuff for the dog


HUH??????????


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## WoodsmanSmitty (Nov 21, 2006)

I am a coyote hunter & enjoy using hounds. I line up blocks of land that we have most all the section before I ever let a hound go. You need to have a lot of room if your running coyotes.
As far as shooting hounds for tresspassing. Be prepared to pay a big lawer bill.


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## LarryA (Jun 16, 2004)

Just as Griff said, there are good representives of each sport and unfortunately bad ones too.

I do know a couple of coyote crews, and they are pretty good about having permission in most of their areas. Of course they are locals that were raised in the area and know everyone or nearly every one, and they have been running dogs in their prospective areas for several decades.

One of the exciting things that is now on the market in the hound dog world is Garmin tracking systems. These things are neat they monitor a dog's movements on a screen in relation to a map. I don't have one yet, but when i get a spare grand laying around it is on the wish list.

I urge anyone who sees any one breaking the law and that includes individuals turning dogs onto private land under the guise of right to retrieve to turn those individuals in as best as described above.


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## Atchison (Feb 18, 2009)

I did this in high school all the time with my neighbors (30-40 a year shot, they still do but I moved away) in Alcona County....we had permission for roughly 90% of the area we ran, and the few places that didn't like us we just waited for the dogs to run the coyote in a different area. We were very respectful....which I think how everyone should be.


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## Velgang (Jan 17, 2004)

Thanks for all the replys to my question.


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## JakeC (Aug 2, 2008)

Houndsman get a bad rap because to many people assume they know what is going on or jump to conclusions. When you see vehicles with dog boxes parked on the shoulder of the road and hunters standing outside most people jump to the conclusion that we are trespassing. If we are parked on the road in front of your property and dont have permission what ever you do dont assume that we are standing where the coyote crossed the road and trying to pick up our hounds when they come out to the road. Just last week we dropped on a Blonde coyote where we had 3000 acres to hunt, 33 miles later according to the GPS on the dogs they were still laying wood and we had to pick them up because they had pushed the coyote into some sections where we didnt have permission to hunt. While we were standing on the road where the coyote crossed a land owner came out just a bitching and wouldnt let us get a word in. Anyway 30 minutes later we still had one hound that hadnt come out and the land owner came back feeling a little guilty, since we were polite to him and hadnt went on his property to retreive the hound, he asked if we wanted to ride on his Rhino out there to get the hound. Sometimes all you have to do is ask a few questions, most of us are nice people.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

JakeC said:


> we had to pick them up because they had pushed the coyote into some sections where we didnt have permission to hunt.


The dogs had already committed a violation, nothing to assume there. 

I have beagles and here in the south, it's a lot of work to keep them where they're supposed to be. When I see others, blatently doing what I work very hard at avoiding, yes it does ruffle my feathers.


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## JakeC (Aug 2, 2008)

What violation did the hounds commit? If there is a law out there the hounds broke I assume you can tell me what it is. Not trying to start a pissing match here but would like to know what violation they commited.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

JakeC, since the dogs pushed the coyotes on to properties that you do not have permission, I assume that the dogs are on those properties also, unless you were cutting them off before entering on such properties. Once they enter the properties that you don't have permission is what I was refering to as a violation.

I didn't have the time to calculate that if you traveled 33 miles if you'd be off that 3000 acres that you had permission. I assumed you had.


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## JakeC (Aug 2, 2008)

I'll leave the violation part alone since I cant get my hounds to stop everytime they cross property lines. But I hope that you dont think the coyote ran 33 miles in a straight line. I'll give you full details about the chase so you dont have to do the math. When the coyote left the sections where we had permission to hunt we drove around to the next section to try and cut the hounds off, but they had already pushed the coyote across the road so we drove around to the next section and that is where we caught the hounds.


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