# Rye vs. Wheat vs. Winter Oats for Fall cereal grain planting



## MAGNUS

Any opinions on which grain to plant in the Northeast? I'm leaning toward Rye because it's: 1) cheap; 2) will survive winter and get going earlier in the Spring than my clover/alfalfa so deer and turkeys will have a reason to stick around; 3) easier to kill than Wheat by a couple of mowings, as compared to Wheat which may require a herbicide.

Just curious if others agree/disagree...


----------



## G-Vac

I've always stuck to rye here in WNY, simply because I've heard it to be the most foolproof and winter hardy of the three. I've also heard rye to be the least preferred. I'd love to hear other's input, especially those with actual experiance with all of them, or additionally tritcale.


----------



## fairfax1

We planted a little more than an acre last August by putting in a strip each of winter wheat - rye grain - mill oats. No name brand on any of them.

We killed off the weeds with glyphosate, disced in 200lbs of 12-12-12, and then broadcast each seed seperately, then disced them all in. We had a timely rain shortly after seeding. Germination was all that we could hope for.

The deer ate 'em all. Our exclusion cages by the end of October showed that all three grains were heavily grazed. But, in the evening, while it was still light and deer could be observed they went first to the WW, stayed there the longest, and kept the plants the shortest. 

By mid-April with south central Michigan still pretty brown the deer went after the greening wheat and rye (the oats were winter-killed) with a vengeance. They kept the growth about the length of a well manicured fairway. The plot was full of tracks and deer-berries.

Then this summer, the rye grew to 5ft and remained with an intact seed head and we had what appeared to be a fairly heavy yield on the wheat....despite the heavy grazing in the fall & spring. But then, the wheat was flattened and devoured by turkeys in mid-July. It would be hard to find a wheat-seed left on that plot after the turkey excursions. 

We have mowed it all last weekend will disc heavily and re-seed in a couple of weeks. This time with just wheat & oats.


----------



## wecker20

Fairfax, good info you got there. I've only planted ww and the deer hit it once it came up and in the spring. I was just out back and noticed the turkeys got most of it(I actually chased them off) I think I'll be disking that up along w/ another couple of acres and planting ww, rye, and oats. I wish I brought my camera. My clover and chicory look good enough to get down on my knees and take a bite. I also checked on some pines I planted last year and some are knee high. Everything made it through the drought.


----------



## orion

Each of the above concur with my experience. Wheat will get the most utilization almost always. Your reason #2 is a big plus. Rye will grow in poorer soils, so if its sandy, I would lean that way. Wheat has better nutrition than rye, but not by much. Oats have no purpose as a deer feed in my opinion, unless you use it as a nurse crop for fall seeded clovers. With the oats dead at frost, you are providing no nutrition in the winter. My trials have shown much the same as what Fairfax mentioned. If you can grow wheat on your ground, I would use it over Rye. I have a couple of plots in Kalkaska county I would'nt try wheat on, but they grow Rye quite well. Wheat doesnt cost much more than Rye and should kill easy with a discing.


----------



## kitchue

orion said:


> Rye will grow in poorer soils, so if its sandy


Can Rye be broadcasted over Clover thats already established? We have sandy soil thats been fertilized/limed and has a thin bed of clover (and weeds). Looking to supply a variety for the fall season. 

thanks for any input.
sean


----------



## MAGNUS

Thanks for the input. It sounds like wheat vs. rye is basically a toss up. I'll probably go with wheat since its more available around me.


Re: the question about seeding wheat into an established clover field ... I am planning to try a few 10-15yd wide strips in my aging clover. The plan is to run my disk through those areas a couple of times to open the ground a bit, and then seed it, and lightly disk again. Will then hit it with some fertilizer just before a rain. I wouldn't think you'd get very good germination if you just tossed the seed on the ground without disking first but I do think the cereals germinate easily.

For you guys who had wheat or rye last year that have the big seed heads, why wouldn't you just run the disk right thru last year's crop now...instead of planting new seed? Wouldn't the seed right in the heads do the same thing for you?


----------



## wecker20

MAGNUS said:


> For you guys who had wheat or rye last year that have the big seed heads, why wouldn't you just run the disk right thru last year's crop now...instead of planting new seed? Wouldn't the seed right in the heads do the same thing for you?


That was my plan with my ww but the turkeys got about 90% of it. I had a little over an acre of it. I planned on planing rye last year but there was a short supply of it and ww was the only thing the local elevator had. I'm glad I planted it.


----------



## mike hartges

Last year, I broadcast wheat into my clover and soybean plots. The wheat germinated well. I have planted Buck Forage Oats in the past and the deer Hammerred them. My land is in Hillsdale county.


----------



## ThumbBum

mike hartges said:


> Last year, I broadcast wheat into my clover and soybean plots. The wheat germinated well. I have planted Buck Forage Oats in the past and the deer Hammerred them. My land is in Hillsdale county.



MH
Based on input from you and other LP plotters I tried BFO in my plots in Huron county. I planted in ealy Sept and the oats got about 6 inches high by hunting season. The deer hit it but only in passing, they never really went after the stuff. Too bad beacuse the stuff is easy to plant. Im wondering if the soil PH had something to do with the palatability of the oats. The fields I planted the oats in were new attractant plots and are still in the soil builder program and the lime I had put down hadnt really taken hold yet. Initial PH was about 5.4-5.6 in these fileds. I wondered if you had any input on that. 

I would love to find somehting I could just broadcast into clover in the early fall to create a dual-use feeding and attractant plot. If you braodcast wheat into clover does it die off by spring like oats or does it stick around and compete with the clover during green up.


----------



## mike hartges

If the oats were 6 inches tall by hunting season, they may have been ignored by the deer because they weren't as palatable as when they're younger. My oats never got 6 inches tall. Peak consumption was in November. If you plant them again, you may want to wait till mid September. I believe young and tender is the key. The wheat in my clover plot had to be mowed in the spring. It will grow taller than the clover so it can be clipped without even cutting the clover.


----------



## mike hartges

Regarding your question on the PH affecting the palatability of the oats, I would be guessing that a corrected PH would enhance the palatability but I would like to defer that question to others that know more about PH than I do.


----------



## Jacob Huffman

I hunted a buddy's land last year on which he and his dad had planted 2 food plots each about an acre.On one plot they spent several hundred dollars on.One they planted with just rye seed.As I sat there watching the deer walk through the expensive plot to go into the cheap plot I started thinking....Then as they started eating the rye ...wow...they were gourging themselves on it.They couldnt eat it fast enough,I had to laugh out loud.They were eating it so fast the stuff was falling out of their mouths they were biteing so much from the field.My buddy and dad were not nearly as amussed as I was.The expensive plot did finally get destroyed by deer but not until after muzzle loader season..


----------



## ThumbBum

Does cutting it kill it or do you have wheat in your clover year round??

Would a grass herbicide like Poast kill wheat?


----------



## MAGNUS

ThumbBum said:


> Does cutting it kill it or do you have wheat in your clover year round??
> 
> Would a grass herbicide like Poast kill wheat?


Mowing it would kill it but you often have to mow it several times, if that's your goal. Yes, you could also spray it dead with Poast/Vantage if it was in your clover and you had other unwanted grasses to contend with. For rye or wheat alone, mowing is probably the easiest and cheapest way to go for getting rid of it in the later Spring.


----------



## johnhunter

If you wait till the wheat develops good seed heads throughout the plot, you should be able to mow it one time and wipe it out.


----------



## G-Vac

I had plannned to go with all rye this year. Now I think I'll try one field of rye and one field of wheat. Is the planting time the same for both grains? What about seeding rate? Thanks!


----------



## wecker20

G-Vac said:


> I had plannned to go with all rye this year. Now I think I'll try one field of rye and one field of wheat. Is the planting time the same for both grains? What about seeding rate? Thanks!


50-100 lbs per acre. I went w/ 75 w/ the ww and it was about right. They both have the same planting dates. I think I planted mine the last week of August last year but they can be planted well into Sept., even October.


----------



## Jeff Sturgis

Basically...wheat for good to great soil, rye from bad to good soil...that includes ph. Oats for when you want to use as a nurse crop for perennials in a fall planting. As far as preferance, I've always heard 1. Oats 2. Wheat 3. Rye, but on my property the deer don't seem to care except for when the oats die in early December...then the rye is utalized much.

I will plant this week here in the U.P, and around 9/1 on our lease in WI, which is perfectly timed for the bow opener in WI if you get a little rain.

A shot of Poast in the spring when the rye or wheat is 6-8" high will easily kill the spring growth, which is less critical for the establishment of a perennial if oats were used at 50% with your grain nurse crop.

I use 100#'s of a combination of rye and oats...but I bump that percentage up if I plant later in the year...and you could cut it a little for use as a nurse crop on great soils.


----------



## chevyjam2001

I called to get some ww, rye and oat seed from the local elevator and was told that they are out for the year. I was able to find feed grade uncertified and untreated seed and was wondering if that would work. I also intend to put down 600# of 19-19-19 over a 2 1/2 acre field. I will be tilling in 2-3 tons of pelletized lime this weekend to bring the ph up a bit (5.8-6.2). I would like to try and raise it close to 1 point if possible. I was planning on going with 100# of ww, 100# of rye and 50# of oats mixed together. Would it hurt to add some forage rape as well to increase variety :help: .


----------



## wecker20

I used feed grain when I planted my ww. Came up fine and it's cheap.


----------



## Honker

Feed oats will work too, that's what most of the farms around here use. After 2 or 3 seasons they buy seed oats again.


----------



## davidshane

Great thread - lots of good information!

This makes me really want to plant some ww this year; however, I quess I'll be sticking with rye. 

Both of my plots will be first years plots. Sandy soil and crappy Ph. in both. I'll be broadcasting lime this weekend just to start bettering the Ph for next year. This year will obviously be the year with the worse soil conditions and I really want to have the best showing that I can. I believe sticking with rye will definity provide 1) good plant growth in the plots and 2) a lot of visual sign that deer are hitting the fields (before and after dark). I really want to know that the money spent and effort thats being put forth paid dividends this year. 

By next spring I hope to have spread atleast 2 tons of pelletized lime on each field. After rye this fall and some bw in the spring, maybe next fall I'll be ready for some ww and or clover.


----------



## GrouseBuster

I purchased WW 80# at $8.95 and the same of Rye yesterday for $7.95. I think Rye is the best overall because it grows no matter where you plant it.


----------

