# Selective Split



## Tavor (Sep 10, 2011)

craigrh13 said:


> I wonder what impact zones and splits could have on the population?
> 
> I mean they give us 60 days in a large window with a set limit. So as long as your sticking to that what could zones or splits effect?


Turn the question back on yourself. If zones and splits have no impact on the kill, then why do you want to change them?


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## pinman (Feb 2, 2012)

Let's shut down a week in October, when all huntable water in the zone is open and shift it to the end of December when a majority of the water is froze, wonder how many hunter days are lost?


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Tavor said:


> Turn the question back on yourself. If zones and splits have no impact on the kill, then why do you want to change them?


Who said I necesarily wanted to change them? I'm happy with how things are. Would I like more days later in the season? Of course I do, as nearly every single hunter in this area does. By this area I mean south central/south western Michigan I make do by hunting the bay until are birds arrive though. These 5 hour round trips add up, especially when the hunting blows. I have a lot of time and money invested in this crap and I only have 60 days to use it so I try to make the best of it. 

Not to mention it hasn't been proven one way or the other if zones or splits impact the kill. That's what I'm trying to figure out. Every year these posts come up, so why not try to find every single answer there could be to every question there is every single year?


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

pinman said:


> Let's shut down a week in October, when all huntable water in the zone is open and shift it to the end of December when a majority of the water is froze, wonder how many hunter days are lost?


Why shift it to the end of December? Is all huntable water really closed? Case in point:

The flats killed 309 birds during the 2 day split last year.

For the rest of the year a few highlights are:

From 10/13-10-17 they only killed 414.10/18-10/22 they only killed 280. That was helped by a weather day which resulted in a 114 bird day. The rest of the days were 34-98 birds a day with an average of 69.4/ day.

After that everything increased. 10/23-11/1 there was 1468 ducks were killed for a 146.8/day average. It then trailed off a bit. 

The "best time" was 11/20-11/23 in which 797 ducks were killed for a 199.25 bird day average.


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

craigrh13 said:


> I wish there was a way to look at the data given on how they come up with certain regs. Like I'm trying to figure out how KILL could be affected by 3 zones vs 4 zones and split or no split. If they tell you 60 days within a 120 day period and 6 birds/day then how does 3 vs 4 zones change anything? You are still within the window they gave you.


In a state like Michigan where the birds migrate thru quickly, I agree probably doesn't have much impact. But a State like Arkansas or Louisiana where the birds migrate to, it probably affects things big time. Its all about the where and when of how the pressure is applied. Take Arkansas for example. Three zones each with a split, Each zone gets a large amount of birds at a lot of the same times. Each zone hunts for a bit, shuts down for a week or two and re-opens. If my memory is correct this is what they do currently and they kill a lot of birds. Now allow them 4 zones and do the same thing. Yikes, they will kill a lot more birds when each of those zones re-opens. Thus why the 4 zone option is for no splits. Keeps the overall harvest numbers the same for the state between the 2 options.


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

craigrh13 said:


> I completely understand that. I'm just throwing out ideas that could help the yearly bitch fests. Not to mention throw the ideas out there that can be discussed and people can find their answers. I'm going to try and see what I can come up with to figure out the refuge counts, kill numbers, hunter numbers and weather data for the past 5 years for the month of October. Every single season we are guaranteed a couple weeks of stale birds and weather. It's always around the 3rd week of October and around the first week of November if memory serves me right. Obviously it varies year to year but the term "October lull" didn't get its name for no reason.
> 
> .


Good Luck, LoBrass, Smoke and I looked at all of that when we were on CWAC. Best option was pushing for getting the set opener system in place. Allowed for more fairness, some years it favors the early season guys, some years it favors the late guys and some years it is split in the middle. Way better than previous to that where it always changed to favor the early season guys.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

goosemanrdk said:


> Good Luck, LoBrass, Smoke and I looked at all of that when we were on CWAC. Best option was pushing for getting the set opener system in place. Allowed for more fairness, some years it favors the early season guys, some years it favors the late guys and some years it is split in the middle. Way better than previous to that where it always changed to favor the early season guys.


I like the set dates for those reasons.


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## Swamp Boss (Mar 14, 2003)

I am sure the Feds and the State , do not concern themselves with maximizing the success of hunters in any given state or zone. Conservation implies wise use over time. Some years the weather and water levels work in our favor and sometimes they don't! I get as discouraged as anyone else looking out at flat water and stale birds--like I have been doing for the last three days. In 31 years of this game, I have learned to take advantage of each day and feel much better than I used to that all days can't be a slate gray, snarling duck storm.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

smoke said:


> still stand by the point that; Somewhere in Michigan from September 1st through February you can hunt some type of waterfowl


But only 60 days of duck hunting. Goose hunting is much more "restricted" in it's access compared to duck hunting. 

Weather is only part of the problem. There have been great changes in our hunting since I started back 50 some odd years ago. Food sources have changed. Boat traffic has increased. Migration patterns changed. Some species have increased greatly, Canada Geese for one, some decreased greatly, scaup for one. 

There is not simple answer. One fact remains, if duck populations remain the same, we are limited to 60 days of duck hunting, and maybe the 7 days of teal, that's it for duck. The ONLY way to increase your days of duck hunting is to go out of state.


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## WoodyMG (May 29, 2013)

I'd forget about later season dates if we got a Sandhill season.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

WoodyMG said:


> I'd forget about later season dates if we got a Sandhill season.


We could not even keep a dove season, there is little chance of any new season here. I would like to see a season on mute swans too, but it ain't going to happen.


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## Cork Dust (Nov 26, 2012)

WoodyMG said:


> I'd forget about later season dates if we got a Sandhill season.


This may not be too far away from happening...just hope that the State opts to follow the Minnesota formula and avoid a Public referendum when the decision is made that greater sandhill numbers are adequate for a limited season here.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Cork Dust said:


> This may not be too far away from happening...just hope that the State opts to follow the Minnesota formula and avoid a Public referendum when the decision is made that greater sandhill numbers are adequate for a limited season here.


Do you think that we could change how we decide on hunting seasons here? I can see laws suits out the kazoo and the DNR having to give up due to litigation costs. 

There is no doubt that all seasons should be set by the DNR, only after all science has been done. I just don't see this state allowing that to happen.


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## Cork Dust (Nov 26, 2012)

DecoySlayer said:


> We could not even keep a dove season, there is little chance of any new season here. I would like to see a season on mute swans too, but it ain't going to happen.


MUCC leadership decided to "get involved" in the second initiative, forcing an eventual Public referendum, which failed. Had the organization not decided to stick their fingers in the "pie" it was a done deal...


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## Cork Dust (Nov 26, 2012)

DecoySlayer said:


> Do you think that we could change how we decide on hunting seasons here? I can see laws suits out the kazoo and the DNR having to give up due to litigation costs.
> 
> There is no doubt that all seasons should be set by the DNR, only after all science has been done. I just don't see this state allowing that to happen.


It can be done via proclamation, the State just needs the political will and willingness. This is what occurred in Minnesota, the State fish and game folks worked with the legislature to put the season in place and then announced their joint effort. Lawsuits followed...but, the longer the season is in place without any evidence of declining Greater Sandhill population numbers, the harder it is for opposition groups to make a case to overturn the existing framework.

Here is an example of how the Humane Society couches their effort to overturn the pending statewide season: http://www.mnhumane.org/87.html

Note how they selectively place the whooping crane's population status within the opening sentence!


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Cork Dust said:


> It can be done via proclamation, the State just needs the political will and willingness.


It could happen, but I doubt it. Hunting is no longer important to many in government. Detroit, and Wayne county, have the population, the votes, won't happen, IMHO


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

We have far too many liberal democrats in this state to get a dove or crane season. Although, wacky states like Cali even have a dove season. So sad.


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## wavie (Feb 2, 2004)

craigrh13 said:


> Although, wacky states like Cali even have a dove season. So sad.


Some states just have screwy laws. In southern California(perhaps all of) it's illegal to shoot coyotes. In Minnesota I believe you can't hunt open water. We don't have it that bad. Although they shoot doves all around us.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

wavie said:


> Some states just have screwy laws. In southern California(perhaps all of) it's illegal to shoot coyotes. In Minnesota I believe you can't hunt open water. We don't have it that bad. Although they shoot doves all around us.


Oh yeah, I was stationed out in Cali for 4 years. They have so much potential but their laws are insane. 

We have it pretty dang good for the circumstances and our politics being ruled by big cities and Detroit. 

Yes, I will never understand why we can't shoot doves. We had so many doves in our spread during the early goose. I literally have never in my life seen so many doves. It was crazy. Cranes as well. I live in a heavy crane area. They seem to be in every damn field around us.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

LoBrass said:


> Yup, sucks. Weather sucks right now unless you are a lawn care guy. Great weather to make some SERIOUS coin.
> 
> BTW,
> 1. I can't believe I just read this entire thread.
> ...


I scanned it quickly, and yep, same old same old every year. What it tells me is I've been haunting this forum for WAAAAAAY too many years


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