# Muzzleloader bullet drop



## kingfishcam

Using a typical inline, .50 cal muzzleloader with a 240 xtp sabot, 150 grains of pyrodex, what could I expect for drop at 200 yards if I have a 100 yard zero?

Should this setup be set at 1.5" high at 100 yards instead?


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## lumpy

best bet is to call hornady direct. they have balistic chart to tell you. If you are planning on going from 100 out to 200 yards I would seriously consider changing over to the hornady SST load.


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## UP Ed

Go to http://www.hornady.com to get info on the XTP or other sabot you are using. (I agree with Lumpy on the SST's.) Get velocity figures from your chronograph or http://www.hodgdon.com has velocity for 777 and Pyrodex up to 100g. Then once you have all the numbers together, go to http://www.biggameinfo.com/BalCalc.aspx and plug the numbers in and you can print out you own ballistic info for what zero you like.

-Ed


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## Swamp Monster

There is only one way to answer your question, and one way only. Go shoot the gun at the ranges you plan to use the gun! There is no such thing as the typical inline, they are all different, different barrel lengths, different bore dimensions..some tighter, some looser etc. Never, ever rely on published ballistics from a manufacturer or a web site. The only way you wil know what the actual drop is, and how best to site your gun in at 100 yards is to shoot it. 
A chronograph can come in handy as well, but it is not necessary to correctly site in you muzzleloader. 
I have a general idea that that stubby 240 gr XTP will need to sighted in somewhere in the 4" to 5" high range at 100 yards.....just a guess. The Ballistic Coefficient and Sectional Density of that load are poor at best, and not ideal for longrange shooting. There are far better choices for long range bullets on the market. Prbullets, SST's and Shockwaves are some examples. And really, heavier bullets in the 300 grain range are ideal for long range, despite what most people think. In muzzleloaders, they typically have better BC's than many light bullets and they shed velocity slower...at longer ranges they are moving almost as fast as the lighter bullet (say 300 gr vs 250gr) and they are packing more energy.


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## kingfishcam

Great reply's!
I agree, shooting is the only way to tell. I was just curious about muzzleloader ballistics. I have not shot my rifle past 100 yards, but I now have areas where 200 yards would be common.

I will also chrono 100 and 150 grains to see what the fps looks like.

SST's are in the future, reading good things about them!


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## grafik0117

I found a chart describing bullet drop between 100 and 200 yards compiled by Toby Bridges. He took nearly 600 shots with 20 different bullets using 100 grains of 777 FFFg. Here is the link: 
www.hpmuzzleloading.com/Technical.html 

In summary, he ranks them by drop as follows:
5.25" - 195-gr. PR .357 Dead Center
6.90" - 260-gr. PR .400 Dead Center
7.30" - 240-gr. PR .400 Dead Center
7.40" - 260-gr. PR .400 Extreme Elite HP
7.50" - 300-gr. PR .430 Dead Center
7.90" - 240-gr. PR .400 Extreme Elite HP
8.85" - 340-gr. PR .451 Dead Center
9.70" - 250-gr. Parker .451 Ballistic Extreme
9.90" - 250-gr. Barnes .451 TMZ
10.8" - 250-gr. Hornady .452 SST
11.2" - 275-gr. Parker .451 Ballistic Extreme
11.5" - 290-gr. Barnes .451 TMZ
11.8" - 245-gr. Barnes .451 Spit-Fire
12.3" - 300-gr. Hornady .452 SST
12.9" - 285-gr. Barnes .451 Spit-Fire
13.8" - 295-gr. Power Belt .499
14.9" - 223-gr. Power Belt .499
15.9" - 260-gr. Harvester Muzzleloading .451 Scorpion Hollow Point
18.7" - 250-gr. Hornady .452 XTP Hollow Point
21.2" - 300-gr. Hornady .452 XTP Hollow Point

I found the PR Dead Center and Extreme Elite HP bullets here:
http://www.muzzleloadingbullets.com/


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## ENCORE

kingfishcam said:


> Great reply's!
> I agree, shooting is the only way to tell. I was just curious about muzzleloader ballistics. I have not shot my rifle past 100 yards, but I now have areas where 200 yards would be common.
> 
> I will also chrono 100 and 150 grains to see what the fps looks like.
> 
> SST's are in the future, reading good things about them!


Plain and simple........ if you want a bullet that works, why isn't Barnes in your future?

(Can't believe I beat Swamp to it :lol


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## Jim..47

ENCORE said:


> Plain and simple........ if you want a bullet that works, why isn't Barnes in your future?
> 
> (Can't believe I beat Swamp to it :lol


Not disputing your Barnes bullets as I know you are very knowledgable in muzzleloading, but would you mind a simple explaination of why Barnes? According to the chart they are only middle of the road in drop, so there must be another reason.

Also, if someone chooses to not shoot pointed bullets such as these could you recommend what they should consider?


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## Cpt.Chaos

Jim..47 said:


> Not disputing your Barnes bullets as I know you are very knowledgable in muzzleloading, but would you mind a simple explaination of why Barnes? According to the chart they are only middle of the road in drop, so there must be another reason.


Terminal performance.


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## ENCORE

Jim..47 said:


> Not disputing your Barnes bullets as I know you are very knowledgable in muzzleloading, but would you mind a simple explaination of why Barnes? According to the chart they are only middle of the road in drop, so there must be another reason.
> 
> Also, if someone chooses to not shoot pointed bullets such as these could you recommend what they should consider?


Sure Jim,

Because a bullet is at the middle or any other place on a chart for drop, really doesn't matter that much to me. What does matter, is what the bullet does when it gets there. Its performance and accuracy together. IMO, bullets must do two things and do them both equally well. A bullet must shoot accurately and when the bullet hits the intended game, it must perform flawlessly every time.

I was brought up by a father that instructed and demanded proper shot placement on all game. I was never denied a firearm or ammuniton and was encouraged to shoot as much as I wanted. I can clearly remember my first harvest, which was a fox squirrel. Unfortunately and in my excitement, I didn't make the proper shot on that squirrel. I hit it alright but, it made it into a hole in the tree. Now, most fathers would have just chalked that up as a loss. Not mine. It was now my responsibility to retreive the game that I had just shot. I was instructed to go to the nearest fence row, break off a piece of old barbed wire and bring it back. I was then told, how to get that dead squirrel out of the hole in that tree. Which I did. I learned a very valuable lesson about shot placement at 7 or 8 years old.

Shot placement IS everything, no matter which brand of bullet you're using. Of course you already know that. However, even with proper shot placement, IMO a bullet needs to expand, create excessive internal damage and also exit. Bullets that just shoot a hole through the animal will cause death (w/proper shot placement) but it may take much longer. I remember "back in the day" I knew a person at work, that had grown up in the NWLP. They needed meat and the decision was to shoot a deer, at night, in their orchard. He used his father's 30-06 and bullets that he found. He shot at a deer and it didn't fall, shot at another and it didn't fall either. What he didn't know, was that the bullets that he was shooting, were his dad's FMJ rounds. In the morning, he had three deer instead of just the one that they wanted. _(I do not condone poaching_). So here's an example of a bullet that did the job but.....

Now, the Barnes bullets are certainly not the only bullet that I've shot or hunted with. I've used everything from round balls to the bullets packaged with Knight rifles, SST, Shockwave, Dead Center, XTP's in all forms and yes, those *%$# PB's. Of all the bullets that I've shot through a muzzleloader, there are two bullets that have performed flawlessly for me. The XTP, which has a reputation that can not be denied, the other a Barnes Bullet. Either the Expander or the TMZ.

WITHOUT FAIL, every deer that I've ever shot with either of the Barnes bullets was always recoverd and in short order. I've never had a Barnes bullet not do what I expected it to do or, what the manufacturer said that it would do. Of the few bullets that I have been able to recover, each one of them did EXACTLY what they were supposed to do. Expand properly, retain its weight and cause extensive tissue damage. When a bullet performs like this and does it every time and shoots as accurately as they do, I've got to say that its by far the best that I've shot.

If a person didn't want to shoot a "pointed bullet" they could still shoot the Barnes Expanders. But, that's not quite what you were asking 

My choice for any other bullet (not pointed & at this time) would have to be the Hornady XTP.... IF it shot well out of the rifle. Its a rock sold performer and I've seen no less than 200 deer harvested with them, which includes friends that have hunted with me and also myself.

Ya........ I know I'm long winded but feel'n pretty perky tonight. Had a couple things go my way today and saved a bunch of money which = more bullets :lol:................... Hope it answers something for ya.


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## Cpt.Chaos

ENCORE said:


> Sure Jim,
> 
> Because a bullet is at the middle or any other place on a chart for drop, really doesn't matter that much to me. What does matter, is what the bullet does when it gets there. Its performance and accuracy together. IMO, bullets must do two things and do them both equally well. A bullet must shoot accurately and when the bullet hits the intended game, it must perform flawlessly every time.
> 
> I was brought up by a father that instructed and demanded proper shot placement on all game. I was never denied a firearm or ammuniton and was encouraged to shoot as much as I wanted. I can clearly remember my first harvest, which was a fox squirrel. Unfortunately and in my excitement, I didn't make the proper shot on that squirrel. I hit it alright but, it made it into a hole in the tree. Now, most fathers would have just chalked that up as a loss. Not mine. It was now my responsibility to retreive the game that I had just shot. I was instructed to go to the nearest fence row, break off a piece of old barbed wire and bring it back. I was then told, how to get that dead squirrel out of the hole in that tree. Which I did. I learned a very valuable lesson about shot placement at 7 or 8 years old.
> 
> Shot placement IS everything, no matter which brand of bullet you're using. Of course you already know that. However, even with proper shot placement, IMO a bullet needs to expand, create excessive internal damage and also exit. Bullets that just shoot a hole through the animal will cause death (w/proper shot placement) but it may take much longer. I remember "back in the day" I knew a person at work, that had grown up in the NWLP. They needed meat and the decision was to shoot a deer, at night, in their orchard. He used his father's 30-06 and bullets that he found. He shot at a deer and it didn't fall, shot at another and it didn't fall either. What he didn't know, was that the bullets that he was shooting, were his dad's FMJ rounds. In the morning, he had three deer instead of just the one that they wanted. _(I do not condone poaching_). So here's an example of a bullet that did the job but.....
> 
> Now, the Barnes bullets are certainly not the only bullet that I've shot or hunted with. I've used everything from round balls to the bullets packaged with Knight rifles, SST, Shockwave, Dead Center, XTP's in all forms and yes, those *%$# PB's. Of all the bullets that I've shot through a muzzleloader, there are two bullets that have performed flawlessly for me. The XTP, which has a reputation that can not be denied, the other a Barnes Bullet. Either the Expander or the TMZ.
> 
> WITHOUT FAIL, every deer that I've ever shot with either of the Barnes bullets was always recoverd and in short order. I've never had a Barnes bullet not do what I expected it to do or, what the manufacturer said that it would do. Of the few bullets that I have been able to recover, each one of them did EXACTLY what they were supposed to do. Expand properly, retain its weight and cause extensive tissue damage. When a bullet performs like this and does it every time and shoots as accurately as they do, I've got to say that its by far the best that I've shot.
> 
> If a person didn't want to shoot a "pointed bullet" they could still shoot the Barnes Expanders. But, that's not quite what you were asking
> 
> My choice for any other bullet (not pointed & at this time) would have to be the Hornady XTP.... IF it shot well out of the rifle. Its a rock sold performer and I've seen no less than 200 deer harvested with them, which includes friends that have hunted with me and also myself.
> 
> Ya........ I know I'm long winded but feel'n pretty perky tonight. Had a couple things go my way today and saved a bunch of money which = more bullets :lol:................... Hope it answers something for ya.


Yeah, terminal performance, thanks Encore.


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## ezcaller

Nice job Encore.I too am very happy with the Barnes bullets. I have shot many of the bullets on that list through my ML while getting caught up in the published numbers looking for the perfect bullet.Many of the ones at the top of the list just did not give me the accuracy I was looking for. The Barnes did and I am happy with the results either punching wholes in paper or recovering animals.


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## SPITFIRE

kingfishcam said:


> Great reply's!
> I agree, shooting is the only way to tell. I was just curious about muzzleloader ballistics. I have not shot my rifle past 100 yards, but I now have areas where 200 yards would be common.
> 
> I will also chrono 100 and 150 grains to see what the fps looks like.
> 
> SST's are in the future, reading good things about them!


 Let me know when your going to shoot,I would like to try a couple diffrent bullets to see what mine likes.


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## Jim..47

Thanks for the detailed reply Encore. I really appreciate all the info you offered, and the explaination of the different bullets.

I've been using the Hornady 300gr XTP. Unfortuanately I've not had the chance for a shot yet as I hunt on over hunted public land and also have trouble sitting still which I will not go into. But I've used these same bullets in my Contendor 45/70 gov. and taken every deer I've ever shot at. So I know they are good solid bullets.

I may try the Barnes bullets yet. I'll have to make that desicion next summer/fall.

I'd like to mention that I use one of those nearly impossible to load Thompson Omegas. I've made special starter tools that you could also use to drive out rusty spring pins on a Mack truck  Without the aid of my home made tool forget loading, and thats after I've cleaned the barrel with 2-3 swabs.

Right now I'm interested in taking advantage of the end of the year pricies on sabots (w/out bullets) for my Hornaday bullets but I'd like to try something that may aid the loading process for easier starting and seating.

Got any ideas?


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## Ole Spike

I shoot 240 Hornady XTP's and 120 grains of pyrodex and am dead on at 100 and 12" low at 200.


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## Jim..47

Ole Spike said:


> I shoot 240 Hornady XTP's and 120 grains of pyrodex and am dead on at 100 and 12" low at 200.


Have you compared the 240s to the 300s?


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## ENCORE

Jim..47 said:


> Thanks for the detailed reply Encore. I really appreciate all the info you offered, and the explaination of the different bullets.
> 
> I've been using the Hornady 300gr XTP. Unfortuanately I've not had the chance for a shot yet as I hunt on over hunted public land and also have trouble sitting still which I will not go into. But I've used these same bullets in my Contendor 45/70 gov. and taken every deer I've ever shot at. So I know they are good solid bullets.
> 
> I may try the Barnes bullets yet. I'll have to make that desicion next summer/fall.
> 
> I'd like to mention that I use one of those nearly impossible to load Thompson Omegas. I've made special starter tools that you could also use to drive out rusty spring pins on a Mack truck  Without the aid of my home made tool forget loading, and thats after I've cleaned the barrel with 2-3 swabs.
> 
> Right now I'm interested in taking advantage of the end of the year pricies on sabots (w/out bullets) for my Hornaday bullets but I'd like to try something that may aid the loading process for easier starting and seating.
> 
> Got any ideas?


Barnes TEZ


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## ENCORE

Jim..47 said:


> Have you compared the 240s to the 300s?


Not answering for Old Spike but, I've used them both in the past. I bought the bullets then bought the sabots seperate for them. Now, don't ask me what kind of sabots they were......... its been a long time ago! I shot the .430 - 300gr. XTP and also the 240gr. I've taken deer with both. However, after taking a couple with the 240's I switched over to the 300's. Found that they worked better and were better for longer range.

Still have a box of the 300's and a box of 240's on the bench. Oh, and about 450 rounds of 44mag ammuniton that are reloads.... Don't have the Ruger any more...


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## bear5

Try using the Nikon spot on program. Just select one of the Omega scopes, put in you info and it will give you range info. Works like a charm.


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