# Thanks Mlive



## MuskyDan (Dec 27, 2001)

Sib said:


> MuskyDan inside with hat on:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Dedge (Sep 22, 2004)

I read this entire thread and the only thing I am sure of is that my IQ dropped because of it.:lol::lol::lol:


Dan


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

MuskyDan said:


> All I am saying is that it is or should be a natural law that states "dress the way you want to be treated." It is the way it has always been and will be.
> 
> The bitch is with M-Live for posting that pic in the manner they did. ...I am saying that dreds originated and became a cultural fad and they were closely married to pot. That is the image most people get when they see someone PROUD of the dreds they are wearing.


For sure the bitch is with M-Live and maybe a biased employee who selectively chose the pic. But we hunters shouldn't censor ourselves because we FEAR the anti's and their political savvy. The most they'll ever accomplish is banning dove hunting, which was already banned for 100 yrs, so that was an easy fight for them. Actually, they are a smaller group than us. I'm more worried about the Ted Kennedy's & Diane Feinsteins working to infringe on the 2nd amendment, a two birds with one stone strategy for the anti's. SPORTSMEN PLEASE VOTE!


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## Bomba (Jul 26, 2005)

Dan I doubt you'll be able to hold a public office with all those skeletons in your closet, or pics in your gallery.......:lol:


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## MuskyDan (Dec 27, 2001)

sea nympho said:


> *For sure the bitch is with M-Live and maybe a biased employee who selectively chose the pic. * But we hunters shouldn't censor ourselves because we FEAR the anti's and their political savvy. The most they'll ever accomplish is banning dove hunting, which was already banned for 100 yrs, so that was an easy fight for them. Actually, they are a smaller group than us. I'm more worried about the Ted Kennedy's & Diane Feinsteins working to infringe on the 2nd amendment, a two birds with one stone strategy for the anti's. SPORTSMEN PLEASE VOTE!



Are you suggesting that there is something wrong with this picture??


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

no. but yes m-live sux and probably has a politically-biased employee who chose that pic because he/she thought it would help their cause. problem is it should NOT help their cause because people should not make dumbass assumptions. 
this is exactly what we can't control for. you could post a sanitized pic for the public and the anti's will still find a way to use it against you. let them do what they want, I think the majority of non-hunters are not anti's and believe the anti's are choads, which they are.


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## bknoll (Dec 2, 2004)

Sib said:


> Monster bows right from their home page:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Which was exactly my point! This picture is on a webpage designed for people who hunt with bows!!!!!!!!!!!! Nobody thinks twice about this guy and they shouldn't. This pic is not on a page that someone opens up when they go to mlive to look at topics that deal with other things besides hunting.


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## MuskyDan (Dec 27, 2001)

sea nympho said:


> yes m-live sux and probably has a politically-biased employee who chose that pic because he/she thought it would help their cause. problem is it should NOT help their cause because people should not make dumbass assumptions.
> this is exactly what we can't control for. you could post a sanitized pic for the public and the anti's will still find a way to use it against you. let them do what they want, I think the majority of non-hunters are not anti's and believe the anti's are choads, which they are.


I am specifically asking what you think the anti's could see as ammo when looking at the picture??


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## rabbott (Dec 8, 2005)

What does Ted Nugent look like nowadays?


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

The pickup/deer/hippie pic I see does not strike me as distasteful whatsoever. I really don't know what the anti's could see in it, but then again, I'm not an 'anti'. There's no blood, guts, rope, tounge, visible wounds, etc.. only dreads and a beard(awesome). It is concievable to me, however, that someone working at m-live(or anywhere else) could have an 'anti' agenda and use their position to further their goals by chosing just the right pic they THINK will have an impact. Let me ask you the same question, what is offensive in the pic?


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## MuskyDan (Dec 27, 2001)

absolutely nothing!!! But like you I am looking at the deer and the proud hunter as something to be admired. I am not looking for faults in the picture nor am I looking for Bambi's murderer. If I were however I would view the long hair and shaggy beard as a sign of weakness and I wouldn't give the hunter the respect or the credit that he probably deserves. Unprofessional in apperance, not that all hunters are pros but we should act like it especially on front street. 

Let me ask you this, if you had an interview at a engineering firm and you were asked to bring a person in to speak on your behalf would you ask somebody that had hair and a beard like that??


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## Chocha (Aug 3, 2006)

MuskyDan said:


> Let me ask you this, if you had an interview at a engineering firm and you were asked to bring a person in to speak on your behalf would you ask somebody that had hair and a beard like that??


One of the best engineers I have ever worked with in my career so far, has long black hair, big thick trendy glasses, tats all up and down his arms, wears kilts when hes not at work and also was a singer in a heavy metal band.. All at the ripe age of 38.....

Let me tell you.. Meeting him, and working with him on a VERY high profile vehicle for the nations largest automaker, taught me a valuable lesson about judging ones knowledge or worth based soley on apperance...


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## jakeo (Sep 14, 2004)

MuskyDan said:


> I don't care how a person looks but I know I don't want a person who looks like that representing me when it comes to hunting. Yes, I would rather have a someone that looks like they just stepped out of a LL Bean catalog.
> 
> There is something to be said about looking respectable. I am not telling anyone how to dress or look so don't get all wound up. What I am saying is that there is a time when it is important to look respectable. I believe the average definition of respectable has morphed!


I really cant believe all of these comments about his appearence.
Did anyone tell Jesus to get a haircut?


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## Chocha (Aug 3, 2006)

jakeo said:


> I really cant believe all of these comments about his appearence.
> Did anyone tell Jesus to get a haircut?


Better be careful about bring the "J" man up.. You might offend someone....


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## MuskyDan (Dec 27, 2001)

Come on man work with me here, how many engineers do you work with and how many look like that!! Besides you made my point! You judged him before you knew him. Anti's are not only judging us but now when the need a visual they have that picture!!!


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## Sib (Jan 8, 2003)

bknoll said:


> Which was exactly my point! This picture is on a webpage designed for people who hunt with bows!!!!!!!!!!!! Nobody thinks twice about this guy and they shouldn't. This pic is not on a page that someone opens up when they go to mlive to look at topics that deal with other things besides hunting.



That really isn't the issue, that's the bandwagon. The anti-hunters are nothing more than the evil boogie man of hunters, but we need to look no further than this thread to understand that the enemy is within and not outside of our circle. 

Yup the antis will win and yes it won't be because of their efforts, it will be because of our selfish ways. It's too late to do anything about it, the enemy is within our own ranks.

Sorry to drop the truth on those who've created a warm nest of denial.


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## MuskyDan (Dec 27, 2001)

Jesus was a fisherman, I think in that case long hair and a shaggy beard is accetable!!:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## jakeo (Sep 14, 2004)

MuskyDan said:


> That is the way I always thought until some guy said to me, *"you want to be taken seriously, act like it!"* If you want to be known as a clown, a hippie, a anything than dress the part. It doesn't matter who you are on the inside people don't have or make the time to get to know you!! What matters is that first impression and *most* people will judge you based on your appearance, especially employers and opponents!!!


 
WOW Dan, you must be a neat freak or had a bad experience with a long haired person.
I cant wait to get a deer and put it on the back of my Harley.:yikes:


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## Chocha (Aug 3, 2006)

MuskyDan said:


> Come on man work with me here, how many engineers do you work with and how many look like that!! Besides you made my point! You judged him before you knew him. Anti's are not only judging us but now when the need a visual they have that picture!!!


Right.. And it taught me a lesson....


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

MuskyDan said:


> absolutely nothing!!! But like you I am looking at the deer and the proud hunter as something to be admired. I am not looking for faults in the picture nor am I looking for Bambi's murderer. If I were however I would view the long hair and shaggy beard as a sign of weakness and I wouldn't give the hunter the respect or the credit that he probably deserves. Unprofessional in apperance, not that all hunters are pros but we should act like it especially on front street.
> 
> Let me ask you this, if you had an interview at a engineering firm and you were asked to bring a person in to speak on your behalf would you ask somebody that had hair and a beard like that??


No. But that does not prove your point. Those 'anti' people are gonna find something to put on their banner NO MATTER WHAT WE DO. I just don't get the diffference his hair and beard makes to anyone; us, anti-hunters, non-hunters, anyone. Nobody thinks of all hunters like this because everyone knows a hunter who doesn't look like this. I don't think hippies are high on the list of demographics the anti-hunters really worry about:lol: . Iagree with Sib about the "Boogie Man". We're a lot bigger group than the true anti-hunters.


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## Pigpen69 (Feb 20, 2001)

Sib said:


> The ones who see divide and work to further the divide based on the superficial, iow people like you, Dan.
> 
> Uh oh, is that Mr. Upstanding with his pants down? Let's not even go into the uncase guns leaning against the tailgate, the safety ramifications and how the public might interpret that. I hope the young hunters on this site don't see the pic and see how a potential role model is in violation of the law.
> 
> ...


Dang it SIB ya beat me too IT.


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## NEMichsportsman (Jul 3, 2001)

I give up.


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## ohio hunter (May 31, 2006)

I don't think there is anything wrong with the picture and I know better than to judge folks on their looks. I have always been what most consider clean cut, but half my friends have piercings, tattoos and long hair. I am also know better that perception is everything and that picture could affect an anti's perception or worse yet, somebody who is not an anti, but on the fence. I also think if we post pictures with our favorite beverage or cigs, it could have the same impact. I think that is what could be taken from the pic of Muskydan, with the grouse. Personally, I treasure pics like that because they bring back good memories with good friends and family. Not sure what reaction somebody would get of Muckydan's pic with his pants down.:yikes: Actually, I was going to ask how you see pics in someone's gallery, but after seeing that pic, I think I would rather not know:lol:


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## Bomba (Jul 26, 2005)

i don't like the "politically correct" tone this thread has. That is exactly what is wrong with this country!!!! I hate the term "politically correct".
Last time I checked this was America.... and we had something called
freedom and free speech.


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## 5PATS (Feb 11, 2004)

Yep, freedom of speech and press and the way we want to dress and wear our hair, the right to bear arms and the privilage to hunt. This discussion is why I tell my son that long hair will get you no where, despite what you do in life. I tell him all the time that it does not matter if you are an all A student, 3 sport athelete, and a nice kid, there are people that will look at your long hair and make a decision about you without even shaking your hand.


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## Sib (Jan 8, 2003)

I hope I've made my point, albeit maybe a bit forceful, lol. I also want to say one last thing, those photos in MuskyDan's gallery...I don't have any problem with them, they're some hunters out having a good hunt and having a good time, that's what we all do, the killing is such a small part of the hunt and a good friendship can reward you with a lifetime of memories. 

Monster Bows is getting a ton of buzz about the Phoenix, I know if Doc shoots that bow it's because it's a great bow, he owns many and can choose any he wants. The point is the bow flatout shoots and that's what's important, not anyone's look.

Peace out :coolgleam


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

Well, well well. We hunters sure are a visually judgemental lot, aren't we? 
I happpen to know the fella in the picture. His name is Adam. Is he a loser freak hippie? No, he's actually a business owner in Baldwin. He's also a very avid sportsman. He owns the video store in Baldwin and party store attached. In fact, it's the only place in Baldwin where you can get "quality" beers, a bottle of wine that doesn't start with Boones and a cigar that doesn't have a plastic tip installed.
Adam also owns a nice piece of property by the PM river.
Does he have dread locks? Yup. Does he "do organic"? Maybe? (Is that really so terrible?) Does he smoke pot? I dunno, but I sure have met a ton of regular 9-5'ers that wear ties and button downs Mon-Fri that smoke pot and I bet 75% reading this did lots of things in their 20's and early 30's that we probably don't want to tell our children about. Hell, I don't even want my wife to know some of it! :lol: :yikes: 
Anyhow, Adam is a total stand up, super cool guy that, if you ever met him, would be welcome at most deer camps.
Some people may get hung up on the dread locks, but more than likely, they're folically challenged (like me) and just a little jealous that they couldn't grow them if they paid for it.
BTW, Adam has had dreads for as long as I've known him, which is some 13 years. But you won't come across a nicer guy, and he loves to deer hunt.


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## mich buckmaster (Nov 20, 2001)

Pinefarm said:


> Well, well well. We hunters sure are a visually judgemental lot, aren't we?
> I happpen to know the fella in the picture. His name is Adam. Is he a loser freak hippie? No, he's actually a business owner in Baldwin. He's also a very avid sportsman. He owns the video store in Baldwin and party store attached. In fact, it's the only place in Baldwin where you can get "quality" beers, a bottle of wine that doesn't start with Boones and a cigar that doesn't have a plastic tip installed.
> Adam also owns a nice piece of property by the PM river.
> Does he have dread locks? Yup. Does he "do organic"? Maybe? (Is that really so terrible?) Does he smoke pot? I dunno, but I sure have met a ton of regular 9-5'ers that wear ties and button downs Mon-Fri that smoke pot and I bet 75% reading this did lots of things in their 20's that we probably don't want to tell our children about. Hell, I don't even want my wife to know some of it! :lol: :yikes:
> ...


I have read this whole thread, and this one is probably the only one that I would respond to. 

I would rather show that picture of guy who isnt the poster child than post about WOUNDING an animal to suffer!!!!! Or all the other NEGATVIE things we have out in these public forums.


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## FISH (Jul 14, 2002)

wow, this is part of the reason hunter numbers are goin down. the older hunters don't like how the new hunters look. it's not gonna be like high school with the preps, stoners, and goths now is it? play fair guys. chicks dig scars. remember that one...


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## Bomba (Jul 26, 2005)

A wise man once told me "perception is reality"......
It really doesn't matter if the guy in the picture has dreadlocs, or a ponytail, or a mangie looking beard, or blood on his arms, or his pants
down around his ankles, or a beer in his hand!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's the perception that it leaves in the minds of the people who visit that site daily, the people who don't hunt or are anit-hunting, or the people that
are on the fence when it comes to the issues that are near and dear to
us sportsmans hearts!!!!!!!!!!


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## Brownbear (Feb 20, 2004)

Pinefarm,great post
It's appears some on here think you need to be a poster child in order to have your picture displayed with your deer or any other animal you killed. We need to realize the sport we enjoy involves harvesting game. You can try and make it look as nice as possible but that does not make any difference to those that oppose hunting. If we think we need to keep tip toeing around the non-hunting public then they may think we are embarresed in what we do. If more hunters would standup for what we believe in then we may have more respect. Those of you that think that photo was not politicaly correct shoud be ashamed. When did we have to start looking like a poster child to display a proud picture of our deer. Congrads to Adam on his succesful hunt and great picture.


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## bknoll (Dec 2, 2004)

Brownbear said:



> Pinefarm,great post
> It's appears some on here think you need to be a poster child in order to have your picture displayed with your deer or any other animal you killed. We need to realize the sport we enjoy involves harvesting game. You can try and make it look as nice as possible but that does not make any difference to those that oppose hunting. If we think we need to keep tip toeing around the non-hunting public then they may think we are embarresed in what we do. If more hunters would standup for what we believe in then we may have more respect. Those of you that think that photo was not politicaly correct shoud be ashamed. When did we have to start looking like a poster child to display a proud picture of our deer. Congrads to Adam on his succesful hunt and great picture.


You just don't get it.


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## Chocha (Aug 3, 2006)

bknoll said:


> You just don't get it.


I think he gets it perfectly fine...


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## sea nympho (Aug 7, 2006)

Pinefarm said:


> Well, well well. We hunters sure are a visually judgemental lot, aren't we?
> I happpen to know the fella in the picture. His name is Adam. Is he a loser freak hippie? No, he's actually a business owner in Baldwin. He's also a very avid sportsman. He owns the video store in Baldwin and party store attached. In fact, it's the only place in Baldwin where you can get "quality" beers, a bottle of wine that doesn't start with Boones and a cigar that doesn't have a plastic tip installed.
> Adam also owns a nice piece of property by the PM river.
> Does he have dread locks? Yup. Does he "do organic"? Maybe? (Is that really so terrible?) Does he smoke pot? I dunno, but I sure have met a ton of regular 9-5'ers that wear ties and button downs Mon-Fri that smoke pot and I bet 75% reading this did lots of things in their 20's and early 30's that we probably don't want to tell our children about. Hell, I don't even want my wife to know some of it! :lol: :yikes:
> ...


I also know this guy, went to high school with him. He's a good guy. Wasn't sure it was him at first (sorry adam, been a while-scott).


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## bknoll (Dec 2, 2004)

Bomba said:


> A wise man once told me "perception is reality"......
> It really doesn't matter if the guy in the picture has dreadlocs, or a ponytail, or a mangie looking beard, or blood on his arms, or his pants
> down around his ankles, or a beer in his hand!!!!!!!!!!!!
> It's the perception that it leaves in the minds of the people who visit that site daily, the people who don't hunt or are anit-hunting, or the people that
> ...


Bomba understands what this thread was intended to be about. Continue to ignore the perceptions that fenceriders have concerning their opinions about hunting and people who hunt and we'll be crying about much more than the dove issue.


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## huntingfool43 (Mar 16, 2002)

FISH said:


> wow, this is part of the reason hunter numbers are goin down. the older hunters don't like how the new hunters look. it's not gonna be like high school with the preps, stoners, and goths now is it? play fair guys. chicks dig scars. remember that one...


 How do you figure that FISH? At 50 years old I see nothing wrong with the picture. What I have a problem with is people being 2 faced about it. It's aparent they don't like the guy because of his dredlocks, gee the guy that started this has a poney tail but from most of his pics he keeps it hidden. There isn't a bunch of blood in the photo, no tounge hanging out, no nosse around the neck, no alcohol etc unlike pictures in some of the ones doing the bitchin. Maybe they are just jealus because they didn't get their picture in the paper.


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## Kevin (Oct 4, 2000)

I think that there are separate questions being argued here, and people might be argueing past each other.
1) What was the intention of MLive using that particular photo?
2) MLive's intention aside, do you have a problem with someone who is perhaps not your idea of a poster-child for a sportsman being the image the casually-viewing public sees.

For 1, I think MLive may have had some sort of agenda (who knows?).
For 2, I think we have to make a bigger tent in terms of what represents us. If the pic is not disrespectful to the sport, and simply represents someone who does not look like your waspy Grandpa in his tweeds, I have no problem with it.

I think the picture in question is fine and not disrespectful to the sport. (BTW, You ever try to take a good picture of yourself? LOL)


Of course this is just my opinion and does not necessarily represent the views of the site, its moderating staff or its administrator.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

Oh, I get it. There's often times when I get very frustrated with this site and feel like tossing in the towel. I'm often dissapointed with the lack of imagination and one dimensional thinking that seems to prevail sometimes.
Ask yourself this, if the picture was of a slightly overweight white guy, with a brush cut and a big chew in his mouth, with the same exact pose, would this thread even exist? I don't think so.
People are worried about a happy, successful hunter's pic on a virtual buck pole hurting hunters image? Come on now.
There's an old saying of "some people step over dollars to pick up pennies", to illustrate how some miss the big picture and the real issue at hand.
Do you want to know what hurts hunters image in the non-hunting world? To me there's nothing bigger than the negative outcry from sportsman about funding our Department of Natural Resources. Boy, non-hunters must really think that we hunters are committed to the cause of resource management, except that we're going to stand by and allow the stripping of our DNR, when we have an open opportunity to save it. The only thing that non-hunters will take from this is that hunters are a selfish group with a "as long as I get mine" attitude. I can't say I disagree.
How about empty carrot bags littered all over the sides of the road? Do you think non-hunters are more turned off by that or a picture of a happy "non-white" hunter? 
How about when hikers or mushroom pickers come across an old "deer camping" site on public land? Oh, you can often tell exactly where they were by the trash and cans still there.
How about trespassers sneeking onto non-hunters land? That does wonders for our image. 
See my point? The big picture of our image is often completely overlooked.
It's one thing to attempt to educate hunters on different management idea's, especially if those hunters believe a different style of management won't work, when the all the evidence says it does. Or, hunters actions are counter productive for what those very hunters themselves also claim they want to see happen with our deer herd. That's only trying to convince hunters that the bandwagon is where they want to be and there's lots of room for everyone. It's ultimately pro-hunter because of the end net result. But even then, it's really besides the point because it's the NRC that all talk needs to be directed towards. They ultimately set the rules. But to make a judgement call about our image from a single picture? 
I've been so disappointed with the response from many fellow sportsman over the MDNR funding package that I came close to saying "screw this place for good, we're just wasting our time trying to talk common sense and hunters are their own worst enemy". This issue is the image ruiner for sportsman, not a picture on a virtual buck pole. 
But that thinking may be a little too "out of the box" for some. There's always a flip side to everything. We just need to think more in that way. There's unintended consequences to many things in deer hunting and all kinds of arguments that what we think is intended to help us actually ends up hurting us. 
One could reasonably argue that baiting makes deer sightings lower, when many think it helps them see more deer. 
One could reasonably argue that the combo tag results is far more yearling bucks being killed, when it's "on paper" goal is to protect more yearling bucks.
One could reasonably argue that our Nov. 15 opener date and allowing 2 buck tags is the #1 source of what so many hunters always complain about, year after year after year.
One could reasonably argue that only 1 buck tag keeps hunters in the woods longer than if they kill the first buck they see with 2 tags. It's counter intuitive, but a valid argument.
But, these are still just management debates within our own ranks. The only point I make by mentioning them is that things aren't always what they seem. It's a valid debate that things set up to help us on paper may hurt us in practice. 
In the big picture, I can't see how a little picture of a happy hunter hurts our image, just because his appearance is deemed "non-traditional". You see, things aren't always what they seem. It's our actions or inaction that sets our big picture image for us, not a little image that sets our big picture image for us. 
One could reasonably argue that in the eye's of younger, non-hunting "coffee house" types, there isn't a single small image that could possibly make them look at deer hunting in a different, positive light more than that proud picture of Adam with his deer. Imagine that, a guys with dreads hunts? Then hunting may not be so bad afterall? 
But that may demand a little too much thinking "outside the box". 
If anything about this whole thing hurts our image in non-hunters eyes, it'd be this very thread. 
My.02


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## FISH (Jul 14, 2002)

huntingfool43 said:


> How do you figure that FISH? At 50 years old I see nothing wrong with the picture. What I have a problem with is people being 2 faced about it. It's aparent they don't like the guy because of his dredlocks, gee the guy that started this has a poney tail but from most of his pics he keeps it hidden. There isn't a bunch of blood in the photo, no tounge hanging out, no nosse around the neck, no alcohol etc unlike pictures in some of the ones doing the bitchin. Maybe they are just jealus because they didn't get their picture in the paper.


HF,

you misunderstood the point i was saying. i'm 18 and i know ALOT of people and sportsmen that have long hair or scruffy facial hair. no big deal, they're some of the nicest, most ethical guys i've ever met. they go out of there way to help people. i know my parents never told me to judge people by there looks, and i don't. this isn't a communist country so we can dress however we want. don't judge people by there looks. there are members here who have posted there pictures here that have long hair or have scruffy facial hair. how come no one rips on them?? give the man a break, he's not even on MS to defend himself!

that's all i have to say.

good day


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## duckmeister (Dec 4, 2004)

I just got done reading all seven pages of this thread and all I have to say is wow. I don't even want to get started. I do have one question though. For those who commented that various pictures were acceptable for this site because it is for sportsmen, do you think that the antis have never looked at this site or others like it? Don't some of us look at their web sites to see what they are up to? Just some food for thought.

DM


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## bknoll (Dec 2, 2004)

I'm glad that people have been able to try to present their views on this thread without it getting too nasty. After all, we are not all robots or clones programmed to think the same. I believe that we all do think the same in regards to our love of the outdoors.

dm...I'm not really even thinking of the anti's here. Yup, I've checked some of their sites just like they've probably checked this one. We'll never sway those people....even if that was the pope standing there with a deer, the anti's would be enraged. I'm talking more about people who see pics like that on mlive who aren't really sure about hunting or hunters. 

I use my mother-in-law as an example. Huge animal lover and humane society contributor. I get in my jabs about hunting with her often and just last week she said, "I'm not really against hunting, I'm more against some of the slobs who hunt." Now by no means do I think that guy looks like a slob in the picture....I would look much worse myself if it was me in the picture but if she saw that picture, she would say, "That's what I'm talking about".


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## allucaneat (Dec 23, 2004)

Had a blackpowder hunt planned for Sunday, but I'm probably gonna have to cancel because the local hair salon is all booked up.:lol:


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## Chocha (Aug 3, 2006)

allucaneat said:


> Had a blackpowder hunt planned for Sunday, but I'm probably gonna have to cancel because the local hair salon is all booked up.:lol:


LMAO.. 

My bow hunt had to be scrapped last weekend cuz I was outta starch..


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## alex-v (Mar 24, 2005)

bknoll said:


> Now by no means do I think that guy looks like a slob in the picture....I would look much worse myself if it was me in the picture.....


After following this for 2 days I have to wonder what some people really are bothered by.

Then it occurred to me. It is not the hair, it is not the beard, it is not the age of the guy....It is the expression on his face that gives us a subliminal msg that something is not right. If the guy had kept his eyes open for the picture then I think the whole issue would have have attracted the response it has.


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## tiller killer (Sep 10, 2006)

alex-v said:


> After following this for 2 days I have to wonder what some people really are bothered by.
> 
> Then it occurred to me. It is not the hair, it is not the beard, it is not the age of the guy....It is the expression on his face that gives us a subliminal msg that something is not right. If the guy had kept his eyes open for the picture then I think the whole issue would have have attracted the response it has.





i have eyes liek that, i always look stoned, i have blue eyes that are very sensitive to sun, so if im outside or in a very very well lit room i look stoned....



duke


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## eino (Jun 19, 2003)

There is nothing offensive about the picture. I'm not familiar with Mlive, but if they had a negative agenda with that picture, they probably only succeded on this board. For thoes saying they are "not personally offended by it but see where someone one who is undecided about hunting might be", how is that more offending than ANY picture involving dead game? I agree to an extent that there is not a whole lot of need to advertise the blood and guts associated with killing an animal, but this picture doesn't really show any blood. If you look good you can see a little near the window of the truck. I am not ashamed, nor do I think I should be, for someone to see my kill. I don't try to blatently advertise my kill, but am not in the least concearned if someone does see a picture or see a dead animal in the back of my truck. 

My dad used to tell me stories about taking a gun to school when he was a kid so he could hunt after school. It was common and excepted back then. Now you can't even have a picture of your kill in fear of someone posting it on the internet and being ridiculed(by fellow sportsmen) because of your hair cut and a big cheesy grin on your face. Thoes pictures are memories of a good hunt. So what if someone finds them offensive. That's thier problem.

Ed


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

One little tid-bit to digest, Adam's property is just outside of Baldwin. If we had a different situation in this state where such a buck, like the one in his pic, wasn't such a rarity, he might not have as much of a "hell yeah!" expression on his face. But we don't. And, knowing where Adam hunts, under our current rules, anyone that can shoot a buck like that, just outside of Baldwin, Michigan gets a double "hell yeah"!.  
I will say one thing, I am happy that this discussion has not turned nasty, as mentioned before, because it's a conversation we Michigan hunters need to have. 
I think many hunters are torn between making the hunting family a big tent and "having too many hunters" for the available resources. As far as the big tent, we hunters need to welcome everyone, I mean everyone, from little rich white girls who live in Troy to black guys from 6 Mile and John R. The common thread is the word "deer" in deer hunter. Does anyone here think the deer discriminate about the person in the treestand above them? We all know that answer and that's how we need to look at this.
Now, some may find fault with me because of my stance on the license fee increases. They may say "well, you want a big tent, but how about low income people"? That is a valid question. However, my response is, "what about OUR kids"? Don't they deserve the same quality DNR that we've enjoyed? And mock MDNR all you want, but we've had some pretty damn good sporting opportunities due to MDNR for our entire lives. Not that one can't find fault with the desired speed of new regulations, but that falls at the feet of the NRC, not MDNR.
If everyone hasn't realized it yet, I'm a "talker". I like talking to people and finding out interesting stuff about them. As a WWII buff, whenever I sold licenses at the store and a guys birthday was in the mid to late 1920's. I always asked about their WWII service, because virtually all of those guys were somewhere, overseas. The people you meet like that, and the conversations, are often memorable. 
Over the years, I've talked to many senior citizens about the looming social security mess and many feel guilty because they know their grandchildren are the ones that are going to have to deal with their costs. Probably crushing costs. 
I only mention this because we're now dealing with the same looming issue with our own Department of Natural Resources. And yes, it's OURS. We own it. It's "US". 
With looming MDNR costs, are we to welcome all ethical hunters, regardless of race, creed, gender or perceived bravado into the tent, or don't we? 
As I like to say, a reasonable person could argue, Michigan doesn't have a problem with too many deer hunters, Michigan has a problem with too many types of certain deer tags. 
As a political and economic force, attempting to limit our ranks to country/rock listening white guys age 18-50 is a losing hand. 
Take a hard look at our defeat with Prop 3. Sure, there was all kinds of smear and lies, but there was a lot more going on there. We hunters haven't done much to break ourselves from being pigeonholed into the caricature of ******** in a pickup, speeding down a dirt road with a 1/4 mile tail of dust, slapping their knee's without knocking over the beer between their legs as they shoot doves off of power lines. THAT'S how the neutral non-hunters voted with Prop 3. 
This is a different time that we live in. For God's sake, look around. Everything is changing. From the economic structure to information speed. This is the instant information age. Instant! Type, copy, paste, boom! The revolution is as swift and profound as the industrial revolution from 1890-1920.
We hunters always take the ethical high road on killing animals, as we should. If done legally and ethically, there are few things many of us will ever do over our entire lives, save leading an honorable life and raising children that can compare to actually taking the life of a deer. We hunters know this and those against hunting will never know this. 
But there's another high road that we hunters must travel. That's the road of that we are American's first, hunters second and only then white, black, Asian, young or old third, if that. 
Until we get to the point where we realize we're all in the same boat, and that the voyage has a manifest listed only as "ethical hunter", with the same universial destination, do we actually get where we're trying to go. 
As the old Rush song so aptly pointed out...
He knows changes aren't permanent
But change is...
As hunters as a whole, in order to be sucessful and viable for the long term, we need to be able to change as fast as the circumstances around us. If we can't or won't, we're as doomed as the Plains Indians. And at the present rate of sprawl and non-hunting/urban-suburban youths, we're closer to that demise than many care to consider, unless we adapt accordingly. 
My strong .02


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## Bomba (Jul 26, 2005)

Pinefarm said:


> .
> Take a hard look at our defeat with Prop 3. Sure, there was all kinds of smear and lies, but there was a lot more going on there. We hunters haven't done much to break ourselves from being pigeonholed into the caricature of ******** in a pickup, speeding down a dirt road with a 1/4 mile tail of dust, slapping their knee's without knocking over the beer between their legs as they shoot doves off of power lines. THAT'S how the neutral non-hunters voted with Prop 3.


Bob, what you said here is exactly what MuskyDan, Bknoll, myself an others
were trying to say.... It had nothing to do with the color of his skin like
some had assumed... "PERCEPTION IS REALITY"!!!!!!!!!


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## theeyes (Mar 20, 2004)

Bomba said:


> Bob, what you said here is exactly what MuskyDan, Bknoll, myself an others
> were trying to say.... It had nothing to do with the color of his skin like
> some had assumed... "PERCEPTION IS REALITY"!!!!!!!!!



ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ


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## Bomba (Jul 26, 2005)

theeyes said:


> ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ


LMAO, thanks for helping me make my point, PERCEPTION IS REALITY!!


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## theeyes (Mar 20, 2004)

LMAO, thanks for helping me make my point, PERCEPTION IS REALITY!!


Sorry but that wasn't what I had in mind I really don't like excuses.

I think apologies to Adam would be nice. 
It doesn't matter what anyone thought the picture meant to them, there was no reason to bash Adam.


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## Sib (Jan 8, 2003)

Bomba said:


> Bob, what you said here is exactly what MuskyDan, Bknoll, myself an others were trying to say.... It had nothing to do with the color of his skin like some had assumed... "PERCEPTION IS REALITY"!!!!!!!!!


And of all the things Bob listed...he was guilty of having the truck. Run suburbanites! it's person with long hair and a truck! :yikes: 

Let's put a focus group together an poll people that live in gated communities and become their preference as to not offending them. Because that would be a victory? 

Geeves, get the hounds, after this spot of tea I fancy a fox hunt. 

Someone cue up the _Five Man Electrical Band_, please. :coolgleam


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## chevyjam2001 (Feb 14, 2002)

Alot of good hunting time has been spent here bickering about a simple pic:tsk: . Now tally ho off the the woods we go.


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## Bomba (Jul 26, 2005)

Sib said:


> Someone cue up the _Five Man Electrical Band_, please. :coolgleam


They ROCK!!:lol: I'm done, this thread isn't fun anymore now that MuskyDan isn't here inserting foot in mouth!


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## bknoll (Dec 2, 2004)

I hear ya Bomba.....I'm out like the chubby chick in a game of dodgeball.


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## flip69 (Jan 10, 2003)

nice deer. nice pic. i'm glad to see that,it shows that hunters are not all what the public image has been. it is a diverse group. maybe thats why the picture was selected in the first place.


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## Howitzer (Nov 1, 2004)

I think the picture is perfect because he is the picture perfect example of why license fee's need to be increased.

He may be a doctor or lawyer but perception is everything.


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## walleyeman2006 (Sep 12, 2006)

i have long hair and a beard...no dread locks but i do look a little bit like grizzly adams...my wife doesnt want me to get a hair cut or shave but i get all the hunting and fishing stuff i need so ill keep it lmao...i dont really see anything wrong with the pic other then he does look a little too happy lol he could be stonded but at least hes go orange on


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## Chocha (Aug 3, 2006)

Howitzer said:


> I think the picture is perfect because he is the picture perfect example of why license fee's need to be increased.
> 
> He may be a doctor or lawyer but perception is everything.


How does this picture demonstrate the necessity to increase licenese fees?

Please enlighten me...


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## TJD (Jan 29, 2006)

It looks like the guy might have taken another picture in an attempt to fix the public perception....









JK of course!


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