# Getting SCREWED by DEAD BEAT CUSTOMERS



## Big Buck

Hey guy's I have to vent! 
Here goes, last year was the start of what is now a real bad time with economy, job loss and so on. I have been a Taxidermist for 14 years, met alot of nice customers that some have became friends, and some very loyal. I had 6 animals for two years that they would not pick up, I have called and sent letters with no avail. I took deposits on them, and all of them I have since sold to recoupe my loss. 

Last year I had 17 whitetails I could not get picked up.

And now! I have a what used to be great customer, stop payment on a $2000 check that he owes me for two bear rugs and skull mounts I did for him, this is how it plays out.

Customer stops by and dictates his bear should run about a 1000, and his son inlaws should run about 800, I came back and told him we would start there it might be more or less I would let him know he ok fast forward, I get his bear back from tan with a receipt, on the receipt it give the over all lenght and how much it cost to tan, I call the customer and explained to him what we are looking at with cost. He then said I would like to see the bear and paper work no problem his bear measured 79 inches from tip of the nose to the base of the tail, he seen this and said great whats next? I told him I will put the head in it and finish it and send It to the ruger. Well I get it back he picks it up loves it Pay's me and go home. Two days later he calls and tells me he is disappointed and I said with what he said I know it is my bear but my lenght is short I said how? he said it is 79 inches and my bear was 91 I MEASUERED IT BEFORE I brought it to you, we went round and round to no avail, mean while I cashed the check he had put a stop hold on it that I did not know about that I wrote checks on, now he tells me he will only pay 1600which to get my money. I might just do but I have bounced checks plus im out the 400 that I should not be.

What a cluster F$*# 

Sorry so long what should I do small claims? take the money, or could I have a police officer go get it.


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## ESOX

Nope, no small claims, no attorneys. Call the cops. Report a theft. When he inspected the skins, then wrote the check, and removed them from your premises, it was a done deal. He can't stop payment on the check any more than he could come back and stick you up for the cash. There are charges such as "Uttering and publishing" "Larceny by conversion" etc. that I have seen cooperative police departments threaten deadbeats like that with.


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## Magnet

Just tell him that yuu have no choice but to turn it over to a collection agency. Let him know that it will probably wreck his credit (if he has any). See how he reacts. He may start to see things your way.


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## Big Buck

ESOX 

So should I talk to the police department? if so should I state or county?

Thanks


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## MSUICEMAN

man, what a nightmare. i believe the deal was done when he left with the goods. if he has problems with it, then thats what small claims court is for. theres something to be said about buyer beware. is this an older gentleman that might be getting a bit senile? i've had a few situations sorta like this (not with taxidermy) with some older folks that I think just get confused sometimes when something takes a while.


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## ESOX

Big Buck said:


> ESOX
> 
> So should I talk to the police department? if so should I state or county?
> 
> Thanks


Whomever's jurisdiction you received the check in. I would start with the smallest department if that is municipal or the sheriff or whatever. If they don't help, and I mean soon, move up. If they try to tell you it is a civil matter go to the local prosecutor, it is not a civil matter at this juncture, it is a criminal matter.


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## Firemedic

Big Buck said:


> ESOX
> 
> So should I talk to the police department? if so should I state or county?
> 
> Thanks


 
If you live in Hartland, I belive County Sheriff has jurisdiction where you are.


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## Scott K

You can try the cops first but I have an idea they are not going to get involved in this since it is not cut and dried. If they go to the guy and talk to him he will just tell them you shorted (for lack of a better word) him. It will just be your word against his word. And once the cops talk to him he is probably not going to pay you anything after that.

Instead, I'd recommend taking the $1600. I know it sucks, but it is better to lose 400 bucks than 2000.


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## ESOX

Whats not cut and dried? The guy inspected the goods. He picked them up himself. He presented the check for the full amount at the time of delivery. After the fact when he has the goods AND the money is no time to try to renegotiate. He stole them. Simple as that. I have dealt with this type of scenario many times in my years of business. I would never even think of taking less.


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## plugger

Essox is dead on, the check was presented as payment and stopping payment is a crime. Never let anyone try to negotiate with a shyster move like this. This is now a police matter.


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## unregistered55

I agree with Scott K. With nothing in writing and signed, it legally boils down to your word against that of the customer. Been there done that. It's too bad but situations like this point out the need for contracts *that even include a signature at the time of pick up by the customer that his payment of the balance constitutes full satisfaction with the work.*


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## plugger

When the customer wrote the check he was legaly bound to the debt. You cant go to wallmart write a check and then stop payment and negotiate a lower price. Writing a check is a legal is a contract.


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## UltimateOutdoorsman

perca said:


> I agree with Scott K. With nothing in writing and signed, it legally boils down to your word against that of the customer.


I don't know about you, but I would NEVER write a check for insufficient work... Good luck arguing that point in court. If he wasn't satisfied with the rug, then he shouldn't have written a check AND taken it.


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## Skinner 2

Can you get your phone record to show you did call him when the hide came it. That will also help to show he was aware of the size. Why else would you have called him then. Let the police have that too!

Skinner


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## champion_206

you need to start taking more money down for the deposits


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## ESOX

perca said:


> I agree with Scott K. With nothing in writing and signed, it legally boils down to your word against that of the customer. Been there done that. It's too bad but situations like this point out the need for contracts *that even include a signature at the time of pick up by the customer that his payment of the balance constitutes full satisfaction with the work.*


He has that signature. It is on the check.
This really isn't that hard. At this point the "customer" has the goods that are allegedly in contention. He has all the money. He doesn't have the money and goods because he didn't pay the bill for goods sold to him on credit. He has the money and the goods because he was allowed to leave with the goods only after putting his signature on a note that promised his bank would give Big Buck the money when he presented it. He should never have signed that note of he weren't satisfied. Then after taking possession of the goods he never would have gotten without the note, he canceled the note, telling his bank to not pay it as he had promised they would.
So now he has the goods.
He has all the money.
He presented a worthless document to obtain the goods.
He would not have been allowed to leave with the goods without presenting the now worthless document.
He has indeed committed a crime.

If anyone has ever renegotiated under similar circumstances, the didn't do themselves any favors. The "negotiator" has illegally put you in a very weak position to renegotiate from, you have nothing, he already has everything.There is no negotiating with people like that. Usually I have told the authorities I would be willing to let matters drop if I simply obtained my money. A few other times, due to a history of acts of this nature by the guy in question, the prosecutor decides to go ahead and charge him anyhow.


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## Scott K

plugger said:


> When the customer wrote the check he was legaly bound to the debt. You cant go to wallmart write a check and then stop payment and negotiate a lower price. Writing a check is a legal is a contract.


If I went to Walmart and bought a lb of steak then got home and found the steak weighed 3/4 lb, I think a stop payment would be justified.

And please don't think I am defending the guy. I've been involved in business for many years and I know the businessmen get screwed on this way too often. I'd just rather see him get most of his money rather than none.


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## ESOX

> If I went to Walmart and bought a lb of steak then got home and found the steak weighed 3/4 lb, I think a stop payment would be justified.


Only if you returned the steak, they kept the steak and they refused you a refund. You can't keep the steak and the money.


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## Michihunter

This can get very sticky regardless of contracts. In my business we have the ability to place a lien on real property for non payment. But that still makes it difficult to recoup money that wasn't paid even under the same instances in this example. Although Paul may be right, I'm not sure it's so cut and dried as he is stating.


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## Scott K

ESOX said:


> Only if you returned the steak, they kept the steak and they refused you a refund. You can't keep the steak and the money.


Ok, that analogy didn't totally work, so let's try another. I take a snowblower in for repair. It's hard to start and when I do get it started, it doesn't throw the snow. Rerairman calls me and tells me he has it fixed. When I pick it up, it starts great. I write the guy a check and I'm on my way. The next morning I start it up but when I push it into the snow, the snow goes no where. I stop payment on the check and I offer the guy a partial payment. I'm certainly not taking _my_ snowblower back to the guy.

I'm not really trying to get into an argument about semantics, I'm just trying to point out that this is not going to be cut and dried for a cop looking into it.


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