# Favorite Shot Size For Grouse/Woodcock



## Ray Adams (Feb 17, 2006)

Wondering what is your favorite shot size for grouse and perhaps different for woodcock. My current favorite is #8 chilled shot for early season grouse and woodcock, then switching to #7 1/2 as leaves come down, and finally some hard #6's for December. 

What are your thoughts?

I might mention that these are fired from a 16 gauge SxS in 1oz., no more.

Ray


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## Firemedic (Apr 5, 2005)

I'd have to say 7 1/2 and 8's.


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## wcoutfitters (Jan 21, 2000)

7 1/2 and 8 for me also. cyl. choke in 12 guage mossberg 500. Some day I will join the club with a 2 barrel.

paul


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## FieldWalker (Oct 21, 2003)

I shoot 7's, 7.5's, 8's - depending on cover and time of year.

Search the topic... it has been covered with great detail.


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## wyle_e_coyote (Aug 13, 2004)

FieldWalker said:


> I shoot 7's, 7.5's, 8's - depending on cover and time of year.
> 
> Search the topic... it has been covered with great detail.


 
Yes but no one has argued over it yet this week. :lol:


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## MERGANZER (Aug 24, 2006)

8's early 6's for late grouse

G


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## midwestfisherman (Apr 19, 2001)

wyle_e_coyote said:


> Yes but no one has argued over it yet this week. :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol: Yeah, we need to keep Joel on his toes!


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## FieldWalker (Oct 21, 2003)

midwestfisherman said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: Yeah, we need to keep Joel on his toes!


Alright then...

8's are fine over setters... for them close range shots... 

In the event you hunt with a GSP, you may want to shoot Fiocci Golden Pheasant... 4 shot :evil: :evil: 

Is that better?


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## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

1400fps of #5 shot thru a cylinder bore 12, pine trees be damned!  

Just kidding, #8 in my wee little 28 gauge has never let me down.


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## Sam22 (Jan 22, 2003)

I like 6's. I think it's because I am dogless, and want them to drop dead and not move. Does anyone worry about putting pellets (8's) in a bird and it still getting away?? I have knocked birds on their rear with shot, and they flew away when I reached down to pick them up.


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## roger23 (Jan 14, 2001)

I really like 7 1/2 I load 1 1/4 oz or I did I ran out of Ball Powder that they don't make any more I will have to find a new powder


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## Lucky Dog (Jul 4, 2004)

I like #6


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

Sam22 said:


> I like 6's. I think it's because I am dogless, and want them to drop dead and not move. Does anyone worry about putting pellets (8's) in a bird and it still getting away?? I have knocked birds on their rear with shot, and they flew away when I reached down to pick them up.


That's why I don't like 8's. It is purely antecdotal but, if it messes with your head that's enough to ruin some good days of hunting. I shot a couple of grouse last year with 3/4 ounce nickle plated 8's and had to hit them again because I feared that they were going to keep going.

I now shoot 7 1/2's and occasionally a #6 in the second barrell. Cyl/skt to start the season. I'll let you know after I shoot my limit on Friday how well it works. 

Just food for thought most of the "proclaimed experts" say that #7 is the actually best shot for grouse. Now finding american 7's is like finding the last grouse in Michigan, maybe even harder but, if you reload you can get them. These same guys said that they would choose 6's over 7 1/2's if they could only have one over the other.

I am sure either way tons of grouse will be killed by 6's, 7 1/2's, 8's and even an odd 9 or two. It's just like beauty, all in the eye of the beholder. I hope everyone has a fun, safe and memorable opener (just not too good ).


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## Rugerdog (Sep 19, 2005)

61. Definetly 61.


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

of 7-1/2s or Fiocchi 8-1/2s. Depends on how fast you are on the birds.


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## hopeandpoke (Oct 16, 2004)

9's in the early season thru cyl. chokes for me. As the the leaves fall I'll go to 7 1/2s thru skeet and light mod. 20ga. skb 505.


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## roughwoods (Jan 30, 2005)

8 & 9's early season then 7 1/2 late season


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## Hevi (May 18, 2004)

12 ga.
1st barrel, CYL. Fiocchi Power Spreader in #8...
2nd barrel, IC. Fiocchi White Rhino in #8...

-Late I will switch to SKT1 / SKT2 and shoot 8's and 7.5's

20 ga. 
I have some 7.5's to shoot up and we'll see after that

28 ga.
IC and Kemen Field 21, 3/4 oz of #8


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## HarleyP (Mar 4, 2004)

8's all season through the 16

perfer 7-1/2's through the 20 but couldn't find the el-cheap-o's in 7-1/2's so I have 8's for this year.


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## Tecumseh (Aug 13, 2004)

FieldWalker said:


> Alright then...
> 
> 8's are fine over setters... for them close range shots...
> 
> ...


 
Heck, the best early season shot is BB. Who wants to eat those nasty grouse anyways. Why even hunt them, noone else does.


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## lowavenger96 (Dec 8, 2004)

FieldWalker said:


> Alright then...
> 
> 8's are fine over setters... for them close range shots...
> 
> ...


Thank you for the advice Scott !!! LOL


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## Double Gun (Feb 22, 2005)

8's all season.


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## omega58 (Sep 3, 2003)

I'm thinking about going non-tox when October begins so I can jump shoot some ducks. I have some #6 hevishot that should work just fine. 


Ok, what number thread about shot size is this anyway??:lol:


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## Bobby (Dec 21, 2002)

7.5 high brass all the year.


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## Bobby (Dec 21, 2002)

BIGSP said:


> ..............is purely antecdotal but..............



BigSP, antecdotal, the word.
I think you've changed your tune regarding this word. You use it a lot lately, on different boards too.:evil:


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## wingshoot (Mar 25, 2004)

Early - #8 in 1st barrel, #7 1/2 in 2nd / thru skeet tubes

Late - same but with skeet/IC tubes

If I'm going primarily for Woodcock then: same chokes but #9 & #8 
(1st & 2nd barrel)

as always don't forget to pattern your gun...


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## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

Bobby said:


> BigSP, antecdotal, the word.
> I think you've changed your tune regarding this word. You use it a lot lately, on different boards too.:evil:


It's the only big word in my vocabulary.


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## Bobby (Dec 21, 2002)

4 syllables
We don't use many words that big siiting around camp.


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## Ruger1 (Sep 27, 2004)

Here we go again on shot size for grouse/woodcock we've been through this over and over but as there are always new people this topic should be treated as new:

1. A grouse is a much bigger bird then a woodcock and inversley a woodcock is a much smaller bird than a grouse. In reading posts like this on three bird hunting forums I have yet to see this obvious fact pointed out so I am now doing it. 

2. Accepting the above as factual it follows that what is the "best" shot size/load/gauge for grouse will not be the same for woodcock and _vice-versa._

3.To take this argument to an extreme absurdity it is like asking: "What is the best load for quail and geese." 

4. So this argument - if you accept it as valid - and I cannot see how you logically can't - leaves us with the following sub-conclusion. An ideal load for woodcock will not be an ideal load for grouse therefore the inverse of the argument - an ideal load for grouse will not be an ideal load for woodcock must logically be true. 

5. Is this acceptable? If not please post a logical reason why.

6. If the argument is acceptable then we must logically come to the conclusion that the ideal "upland load" will be a compromise between the ideal grouse load and the ideal woodcock load.

7. For starters let us exclude from our argument such anecdotal statements as: "My grandfather never hunted geese with anything but a skeet choke 28 ga. #9 shot and if it was good enough for him it's good enough for me and the rest of you can...." I will grant you that given enough time and the proper motivation one can probably kill an elephant with a butter knife but we are hopefully not suggesting that geese be killed with #9 shot or elephants with a butter knife.

Therefore:

It is my opinion that your loads should be geared towards the larger rather than the lesser bird. Because in theory while you may miss the lesser bird (woodcock) with less larger shot you may just as well wound and not recover the greater bird (grouse) with smaller shot. The inverse to this argument also bodes well for the ethics that I hope we all share (but not necessarilly the game bag that I hope is not the goal of us being afield) -

If the lesser bird happens to be hit with larger shot it will most likely be killed and retrieved. If the lesser bird is missed with larger shot then it might be pointed again by your dog and you will have the thrill of approaching your dog on point, shooting at the flush etc. If, however, you shoot at the greater bird with smaller shot you may still miss it entirely or you may slightly wound it so that it is caught and eaten by a hawk, fox, coyote, etc. and you will never have the thrill of..... as you might have if you missed it completely with larger but fewer shot.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

Your best load should be for the "greater" bird and not compromised towards the "lesser" bird. 

Have hunted grouse/woodcock for 40 plus years and have come to the conclusion that in a double gun the ideal combo is 7 1/2s in open barrel (skeet) and 6s in choked barrel (IC). The now departed Don Zutz who was a well respected writer on shotguns, their re-loads, their chokes, and bird hunting often wrote that the ideal shot size for grouse is #7 (which admittedly is hard to find these days) and if he had to choose between factory 7 1/2 and factory 6 for pats he would always choose the latter.

Hunted a lot of doves (even a lesser bird ((in terms of size)) than the woodcock) over the years. This year I killed 45 over three days with 1 oz. #8 20 ga. IC/Mod choke most at about 15 - 30 yards. I killed pretty close to 1 bird for every three shots - a very, very good average and this was shooting in the open, not through leaves, branches, twigs, pine needles etc.. I would say about 1/3 were dead outright when I got to them while the other 2/3rds were still flopping around. AND A DOVE IS ABOUT 20 % (or less) THE SIZE, WEIGHT AND BONE MASS OF A PAT.

To make a long story short (sorry, to late for that) I am convinced that:

1. You should gear your load in favor of the largest bird you will be shooting at.
2. When shooting at grouse (a decent size bird) 7 1/2 is the absolute smallest shot size you should use for consistent kills. 

3. Your woodcock bag and most certainly your grouse bag will not be decreased by using 7 1/2 or 6 shot. Early in the season you are asking your shot to plow through a lot of foilage before reaching it's target. For this it needs inertia/weight/momentum - the heavier the better (within reason of course please don't be a campfire lawyer and respond with something really stupid like: "Then why not use #2 shot for woodcock?" ) Yes you can kill a lot of pats with lighter shot but how many do you "rock" and not recover, how many do you "wing" and not recover? 

Karamojo Bell killed a lot of elephants with a 7 mm Mauser and a 6.5 x 54 Mannlicher. But reading his journals he carefully picked his shots, took them under ideal conditions, turned down many and only shot when he was confident of a quick and true kill. Can't say I hunt birds in quite the same way. What about you?

Go with the heavier shot, don't wound your birds. If you miss them with a lesser pellet load of heavier shot - so what - they'll be there for you to shoot at again next week. Better you (or me) than a racoon.

Ruger1


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## Grahadad (Apr 1, 2006)

7 1/2's early and mid 6's late


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## Ruger1 (Sep 27, 2004)

What are "mid 6's"?

Ruger1


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## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

I think a comma was needed after "mid", as in early and middle season I use this and then I switch to this in the late season.

I like your premise Ruger1, of course someone may not have a gun that shoots 6's very well or 7.5's for that matter. If I have a gun that patterns 3/4 oz. of #8's far better than any other load then thats what is going to be shoved in the tubes opening morning. I guess I am more into the camp of gunfit and centering targets than I am into choosing the difference between pellet size and payload. By the way, I had one of each let me down last year. With #8 shot I lost a grouse that flushed as bird#2 of a report pair. Centered the first and at the shot bird#2 flushed, a classic pheasant looking leg drop but it was never recovered, I looked with two different dogs for over an hour.  Of course this was a case of poor shooting more so than the pellet size. 
The second bird was hit very hard going straight away with #6 shot thru a 20 ga.. Never found that either, best guess is it flew far enough away before dieing. Never seen anything like it in all my years of shooting grouse.


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