# When is a youth no longer a youth?



## Fordman7795 (Sep 9, 2007)

Is a 16 year old youth no longer eligible for the 10-16 year old liberty hunt the day they turn 17 or the year they turn 17?


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

Fordman7795 said:


> Is a 16 year old youth no longer eligible for the 10-16 year old liberty hunt the day they turn 17 or the year they turn 17?



According to the law - they are eligible up to the day they turn 17.

MCL 324.43505
324.43505 Definitions; H to N.
Sec. 43505.
....
(4) "Minor child" means a person less than 17 years old.


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

Unless of course the DNR deems otherwise.


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## Fordman7795 (Sep 9, 2007)

pescadero said:


> According to the law - they are eligible up to the day they turn 17.
> 
> MCL 324.43505
> 324.43505 Definitions; H to N.
> ...


I see what you are saying but im looking for hopefully a little more clarification. The bolded part in the digest seems to indicate that a youth who turns 17 during the hunting season would still be eligible but has to follow APRs.

Youth hunters 16 and younger and apprentice license holders are exempt from antler point restrictions in all seasons, in all deer management units and under all licenses, which also includes the four-point APR on the restricted tag. A legal buck is one with one antler 3 inches or longer. *NOTE: If the youth turns 17 during the season (or prior to it), he or she must follow APRs.*


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

Fordman7795 said:


> I see what you are saying but im looking for hopefully a little more clarification. The bolded part in the digest seems to indicate that a youth who turns 17 during the hunting season would still be eligible but has to follow APRs.
> 
> Youth hunters 16 and younger and apprentice license holders are exempt from antler point restrictions in all seasons, in all deer management units and under all licenses, which also includes the four-point APR on the restricted tag. A legal buck is one with one antler 3 inches or longer. *NOTE: If the youth turns 17 during the season (or prior to it), he or she must follow APRs.*


That is interesting... and directly contradicts the actual law.

The digest, as a summation of laws (but not an actually legally binding document itself), is sometimes wrong.

I'll be interested to see what the DNR tells you (not that it really matters, because a judge/precedent are the only real arbiters)...


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

sparky18181 said:


> Unless of course the DNR deems otherwise.


The DNR has no ability to "deem" anything.

If charged - you'll go in front of a judge, and a judge will interpret the actual statute per past precedent.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

Fordman7795 said:


> I see what you are saying but im looking for hopefully a little more clarification. The bolded part in the digest seems to indicate that a youth who turns 17 during the hunting season would still be eligible but has to follow APRs.
> 
> Youth hunters 16 and younger and apprentice license holders are exempt from antler point restrictions in all seasons, in all deer management units and under all licenses, which also includes the four-point APR on the restricted tag. A legal buck is one with one antler 3 inches or longer. *NOTE: If the youth turns 17 during the season (or prior to it), he or she must follow APRs.*


Not sure why the confusion. If a youth turns 17, that person is no longer 16 and would not fall under the exemption.


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

pescadero said:


> The DNR has no ability to "deem" anything.
> 
> If charged - you'll go in front of a judge, and a judge will interpret the actual statute per past precedent.


Easy pesky. Apparently your sarcasm meter isn’t working.


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

Petronius said:


> Not sure why the confusion. If a youth turns 17, that person is no longer 16 and would not fall under the exemption.


If a youth turns 17 prior to the season - they aren't a youth.

In fact - if a youth hunter turns 17 on the Sunday of the youth hunt - according to the law as written they could hunt Saturday, but not Sunday.... but this statement about APRs makes it appear that a 17 year old hunter could still hunt as a youth hunter, just have to follow APRs.


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## Chessieman (Dec 8, 2009)

Technically it would be at what hour he / she / whatever was born right?


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## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

I'll vote for 17. They can serve their country then and hunt the real big game....


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

Chessieman said:


> Technically it would be at what hour he / she / whatever was born right?


As the law is written - yes.

How the law has previously been adjudicated? Who knows.


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## Fordman7795 (Sep 9, 2007)

pescadero said:


> That is interesting... and directly contradicts the actual law.
> 
> The digest, as a summation of laws (but not an actually legally binding document itself), is sometimes wrong.
> 
> I'll be interested to see what the DNR tells you (not that it really matters, because a judge/precedent are the only real arbiters)...


i


Petronius said:


> Not sure why the confusion. If a youth turns 17, that person is no longer 16 and would not fall under the exemption.


I seem


pescadero said:


> If a youth turns 17 prior to the season - they aren't a youth.
> 
> In fact - if a youth hunter turns 17 on the Sunday of the youth hunt - according to the law as written they could hunt Saturday, but not Sunday.... but this statement about APRs makes it appear that a 17 year old hunter could still hunt as a youth hunter, just have to follow APRs.


That’s where I’m confused. 16 or under is minor child aka youth. 18 or older is adult. Then what’s a 17 year old?


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## Bucman (Jun 29, 2016)

At 17 maybe its time for big boy hunting


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

pescadero said:


> If a youth turns 17 prior to the season - they aren't a youth.
> 
> In fact - if a youth hunter turns 17 on the Sunday of the youth hunt - according to the law as written they could hunt Saturday, but not Sunday.... but this statement about APRs makes it appear that a 17 year old hunter could still hunt as a youth hunter, just have to follow APRs.


I question whether that statement has anything to do with the youth hunt at all. We used to have a discounted junior deer license. It was clear that the license was good for the season and you were allowed to finish out the season on that tag if you turned 17. When they changed to youth buying a regular tag like an adult and gave youth different tagging criteria they added the definitions as to when the youth need to follow the tagging criteria. This would come into play for archery and firearms season not youth season. 

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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

Fordman7795 said:


> That’s where I’m confused. 16 or under is minor child aka youth. 18 or older is adult. Then what’s a 17 year old?


17 or older is an adult for the purpose of hunting and fishing under Michigan law.

A 16 year old doesn't need a fishing license. A 17 year old does need a fishing license.

Section 324.43505
"(4) "Minor child" means a person* less than 17 years old*."

Section 324.43509
1) *A person 17 years of age or older *shall not take aquatic species, except aquatic insects, in or upon any waters over which this state has jurisdiction or in or upon any lands within the state, or possess aquatic species, except aquatic insects, without having in his or her possession a valid license as provided in this part.


Section 324.43532
"(2) *An individual 17 years of age or older* shall not take or possess an aquatic species, except aquatic insects, in the waters over which this state has jurisdiction without an all-species fishing license. "

Section 324.43558
d) Except as otherwise provided in this section, without a license, takes or possesses a wild animal, wild bird, or aquatic species, except aquatic insects. This subdivision *does not apply to an individual less than 17 years of age *who without a license takes or possesses aquatic species.


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## Wyandotte (Feb 15, 2016)

:
I'll preface this by saying I don't know much about hunting licenses. So I looked on the DNR website. I see a "junior" license for $6. Are youth paying anything to hunt this weekend? I don't know. 

But it seems the case pescadero makes in the previous post may not be the same IF youth are paying for a license. An angler who turns 17 has never had a license.

Interesting point Fordman makes. The youth has already paid for a license while he was 16. Should he have to pay for another license in the middle of the weekend because he turned 17?

However I couldn't quite ascertain if youth do pay for a license. If that's not the case, then disregard what I'm saying.


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## Fordman7795 (Sep 9, 2007)

Wyandotte said:


> :
> I'll preface this by saying I don't know much about hunting licenses. So I looked on the DNR website. I see a "junior" license for $6. Are youth paying anything to hunt this weekend? I don't know.
> 
> But it seems the case pescadero makes in the previous post may not be the same IF youth are paying for a license. An angler who turns 17 has never had a license.
> ...


junior deer license are the same as adult. The base license is slightly cheaper however.


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