# Hunting a mostly private pond



## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

casscityalum said:


> Refering back to the original post. If I was hunting a small pond, half of shorline is private other is state. THere is a state parking lot next to the lake. How can a owner claim that I am tresspassing? I park at the state dock and get into the water. How would I be tresspassing? Maybe Im missing someting, but if this is the case I would think I have full use of the lake...... not park or hunt on his shore but longs as im in the water Im safe......Is it different for certain lakes? But I would thin as long as State or Fed land touches the lake your good to go?


Great question. I thought I was the only one "missing something">

Here's the other thing too,,,,, I'm in a similar situation,, minus the angry landowner and tickets. But anyway,,, I have looked at plat maps as well and numerous times been then referred to asking a CO or District Supervisor. Well,,,,,,,,,, where do they get their info from,, on property lines and such?? Even then,,, in this case the CO was "non-commital". Short of knocking on the landowners door and getting a copy of the "legal discription" of his property,, you pretty much just gotta roll the dice and hope the judge "interprets" it the same way you do.


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## answerguy8 (Oct 15, 2001)

casscityalum said:


> If they crossed your neighbors and used your land to get on then yes their trespassing. But if they stayed on the State side and accessed the water then I would think there not. As long as they stayed in the water I assumed there ok? I would not retrieve a bird on your land if it came down to it.
> 
> Ive fished many small lakes like this before. Had people tell me to leave. I was trespassing and all that BS from people. But I point to where I'm parked where I walked in and proved I accessed it from *State land *Showed the CO where I accessed the Lakes also and they did nothing......


Fishing is different than hunting, law wise. My understanding is if you have legal access to the lake you are allowed to fish any where on the water. I'm not sure if dropping anchor would be handled differently. On some lakes the owner owns the land under the water and controls hunting on the surface.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

casscityalum said:


> Refering back to the original post. If I was hunting a small pond, half of shorline is private other is state. THere is a state parking lot next to the lake. How can a owner claim that I am tresspassing? I park at the state dock and get into the water. How would I be tresspassing? Maybe Im missing someting, *but if this is the case I would think I have full use of the lake*...... not park or hunt on his shore but longs as im in the water Im safe......Is it different for certain lakes? But I would thin as long as State or Fed land touches the lake your good to go?


This has been discussed many times on this site over the years. You would be correct for fishing and boating but not for hunting and trapping. Hunting and trapping are exclusive rights of the riparian owner.

Here is a bunch of threads about the subject can can read;
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/search.php?searchid=2636513


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

casscityalum said:


> Maybe Im missing someting, but if this is the case I would think I have full use of the lake......


 
You would be wrong. The rights to hunt belong to the property owners that border the lake and each owner owns a specific section of that lake. Many people confuse the fishing laws with hunting laws. Having a public acess to a lake has ZERO to do with the public's ability to hunt that body of water. We have beat this thing to DEATH on the waterfowl forum.....just do a search on "ripiarian rights" and enjoy 4 or 5 days of reading.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

William H Bonney said:


> Great question. I thought I was the only one "missing something">
> 
> Here's the other thing too,,,,, I'm in a similar situation,, minus the angry landowner and tickets. But anyway,,, I have looked at plat maps as well and numerous times been then referred to asking a CO or District Supervisor. Well,,,,,,,,,, where do they get their info from,, on property lines and such?? Even then,,, in this case the CO was "non-commital". Short of knocking on the landowners door and getting a copy of the "legal discription" of his property,, you pretty much just gotta roll the dice and hope the judge "interprets" it the same way you do.


They get their info because they would be more familar with the specific spot you are talking about and have the documents and knowledge of court cases that related to that particular spot. So the judge I promise will rule with what other judges have already said but as you say, you could roll the dice, good luck. Part you need to remember is it's not the DNR that cares if you hunt those waters 99.9% of the time, it is the riparian owner who cares so it will be basically John Q Citizen against John Q Citizen that the judge will be hearing about.


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## casscityalum (Aug 27, 2007)

Hmm ok. I just thought that it would be the same as fishing. Thanks for updating me. This is why I dont waterfowl, to many ifs and butts.

So based on this if I found out which part of the water the "State" owns then I would be good to go? Just anchor and stay put...Maybe I could bring out a surveyor and have buoys put in so i know where to stay. That should do the trick...

But man I do not like this at all....riparian rights. If its a body of water, it should only be private if its completely surrounded private ownership. Soon as State touches it I think it should be considered a state lake......I hate how these can lead stupid law suits. If it was me and you came on the state side...Have at it! Im a hunter just like you..Just my .02


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## casscityalum (Aug 27, 2007)

boehr said:


> This has been discussed many times on this site over the years. You would be correct for fishing and boating but not for hunting and trapping. Hunting and trapping are exclusive rights of the riparian owner.
> 
> Here is a bunch of threads about the subject can can read;
> http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/search.php?searchid=2635298




Link no worky.....


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Try the link now, if it quits again just do a search on this site for the word "riparian", you'll get plenty of reading material. I am trying to locate where the DNR moved the Guide to Michigan Water Rights book to their web site which is about 100 pages long and provides all the court cases that established riparian water rights over about the last 100 or so years. It also provides a list of lakes and streams that have been rules navigable.


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## casscityalum (Aug 27, 2007)

Thanks Boehr!


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## malainse (Sep 2, 2002)

boehr said:


> I am trying to locate where the DNR moved the Guide to Michigan Water Rights book to their web site which is about 100 pages long and provides all the court cases that established riparian water rights over about the last 100 or so years. It also provides a list of lakes and streams that have been rules navigable.


Ray,

Here is the link.. It is only 57 pages..

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/Water97e_142928_7.pdf


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

malainse said:


> Ray,
> 
> Here is the link.. It is only 57 pages..
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/documents/Water97e_142928_7.pdf


Thank you sir.

Anyway,William H Bonney thats where the information comes from.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

casscityalum said:


> But man I do not like this at all....riparian rights. If its a body of water, it should only be private if its completely surrounded private ownership. Soon as State touches it I think it should be considered a state lake......


 

I don't totaly disagree with you, it becomes very convoluted and difficult to understand where you can and cannot pursue game *but*, if you or I saw the amount of taxes the owners of the waterfront were paying for the privlege of owning waterfront property we'd probably have a better understanding of their side of the argument.


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## casscityalum (Aug 27, 2007)

KLR said:


> I don't totaly disagree with you, it becomes very convoluted and difficult to understand where you can and cannot pursue game *but*, if you or I saw the amount of taxes the owners of the waterfront were paying for the privlege of owning waterfront property we'd probably have a better understanding of their side of the argument.


Well you have a valid point, but I dont want this to turn into a debate, but I will say we own waterfront on a large lake mostly private lake.. Yes taxes are high, but the hunter side of me says tough, let them hunt. Because if I was them I would want to hunt just as bad as them, so anyone here is welcome to hunt in front of my place...only catch its in The Ozarks on a Bull Shoals lake... I own the beach, long as you dont touch my beach I wont care.


*But back to my question*, if State land touches the lake, does it own part of the lake just like private owners own waterfront and some land out in the water, does the state? Who do I contact? If I am able to find the survey marks, can I bring in a surveyor and mark with buoys am I legal then as long as I stay within?


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

casscityalum said:


> if State land touches the lake, does it own part of the lake just like private owners own waterfront and some land out in the water, does the state? Who do I contact? If I am able to find the survey marks, can I bring in a surveyor and mark with buoys am I legal then as long as I stay within?


The easiest answer first, bouys may never be placed without a permit from the state and I promise you will not get a permit for that purpose. Next, yes the state is also a riparian owner to the bottomlands adjacent to the upland that the state owns.

The easiest way I can explain it is every property owner has a property line on each side of them. Think of a lake as being a pie. Don't confuse property 'ownership' it is different from 'riparian rights'. If you take that property line on each side and draw an imaginary line from the property line to the center of the lake, all the bottomland in that peice of the pie is the riparian bottomlands of the adjacent property owner. That property owner doesn't own the bottomlands but they have riparian rights in most situations.

Now, there are a few things that I will mention that makes it difficult. First, all lakes are not round therefore finding the center of the lake for where those imaginary lines go can be difficult if not almost impossible. Some lakes (there are only a few with one I know being in St. Joseph County) where a person, at one time did own the bottomlands and all the property around the lake. When this area was subdivided the deeds speciffically stated that the original owner still owned the lake and the new owner's (many) property lines stopped about 3 feet prior to where the lake started. This prevented any hunting, trapping AND fishing from ever taking place on this lake without the one indivduals permission. Fishing because there was no legal access to the lake. Now the people who bought property are able to use if for fishing, permission for the owner, but to this day to the best of my knowledge nobody has ever hunted it of course it has became quite populated now too. So the lake itself does make a difference in some cases.

Since the beach walking case that was heard by the court with the court siding with property owners even on the great lakes where the state (public)owns the bottomlands I doubt that one would have much luck on inland lakes where riparian rights have previously be upheld for many, many years.

As to who to contact, the District Law Supervisor for the area in question because he/she will have information on a particualr body of water as to how it pertains to public uses.


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## casscityalum (Aug 27, 2007)

thanks


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## treestand6 (May 7, 2003)

Sorry it took so long to get back here. I was sick with a Chemo treatment for a while.

Well I went to court as a witness for the state in the case and when I got into the court room the prosecuter asked if anyone was there for the Johnson case. I said yes and she said I could go as he was going to plead guilty. I don't understand him going to court with a lawyer and pleading guilty!

Over the years I have learned alot about property lines-adversce possesion--acqusence--riaparian rights..I have won every time but it was expensive!

I have learned one thing each case is diffferent and the law is usually set when the judge hits the hammer!!! LOL!!

I would not come to any site and ask questions about prperty rights as there are too many variables. Never use a plat map for a legal descripition.--only a physical survey.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Outcome has been posted, anything else would be just opinion.


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