# 2-tracks closed in Manistee Nat'l Forest



## WAUB-MUKWA (Dec 13, 2003)

Where was everybody 3 years ago when they proposed to close off a lot of the trails, guess everyone was to busy to be bothered? You get what you don't ask for.


----------



## wally-eye (Oct 27, 2004)

Heck they closed off a bunch of them in Manistee county along the Manistee river/Slagle creek area about 10 years ago......... One in particular has a federally installed and maintained locked metal gate. That road in particular has several cabins down the road past the gate........only cabin owners are authorized to drive down that road....:sad::rant:.....


----------



## harpo1 (Dec 6, 2007)

DEDGOOSE said:


> Thats a good thing isnt it


Yeah, until he gets to his spot and figures out he left his release or bullets in the truck! :rant:


----------



## DRHUNTER (Sep 15, 2002)

Same thing in Oscoda and Crawford. Personally I love it!


----------



## SA ULTRA MAG (Nov 7, 2001)

wally-eye said:


> Heck they closed off a bunch of them in Manistee county along the Manistee river/Slagle creek area about 10 years ago......... One in particular has a federally installed and maintained locked metal gate. That road in particular has several cabins down the road past the gate........only cabin owners are authorized to drive down that road....:sad::rant:.....


Walleye-eye,
The road with those cabins has been closed for 20+ years. My youngest son is 19 now and I remember walking that road a couple years before he was born. That was the stream that dad taught us on in 1970, I know it well, use to drive all the way to the high banks. Wish the fishing was still good on that creek...it stinks now !


----------



## MichMatt (Oct 24, 2008)

Thank you for your request for information regarding road and trail closures on the Huron-Manistee National Forests. 

You obviously noticed that the Forest Service has been closing roads and trails and wondering why? The Forest Service has a designated transportation system as shown by our 2010 Motor Vehicle Use Map (MVUM).  

Many roads and trails are not part of the Forests' transportation system and the Forest Service has been continuously trying to close those routes to prevent resource damage. Unauthorized and indiscriminant ORV use has been ongoing and an increasing problem. The opening of county roads to ORV use in many areas during the past several years has created confusion on where ORV's can legally ride since it is difficult for riders to determine if they are on a county or Forest Service road. The county ordinances did not include on the ground signing or comprehensive maps for riders. Thus, many riders could potentially be cited for a violation. To resolve this situation on USFS lands, significant resources are being committed to signing USFS roads and closing illegal routes to help inform riders, prevent illegal use and resulting resource damage. 

All Forest Servide roads are closed to ORV use except where designated on the MVUM. The Forest Service Road and Trail System is intended to provide public and management access to the Forest, while minimizing the multiple impacts that roads and trails have on our natural resources. We strive to strike a balance between access and use of the resource and protection of that valuable resource for current and future generations. 

The number of unauthorized roads and trails on the Huron-Manistee National Forests is significant. The resulting resource damage is also significant and includes: 


Damage to the resource from the road or trail itself, especially to wetlands
Illegal dumping and littering
Illegal construction of permanent hunting blinds
Illegal baiting
Cultivation of marijuana
Firewood poaching
Wildlife poaching
Introduction and expansion of non-native invasive species (NNIS)
These problems are widespread and pose a real threat to the health and productivity of our forests. These problems are most prevalent near subdivisions or other developed private property and borders USFS lands. It is the Forest Service's mission and responsibility to you the taxpayer, to do the best we can to minimize negative impacts. 

I hope you will assist us in helping care for these lands for current and future generations and prevent illegal motorized use. I also ask for your understanding when a road or trail is closed that might affect you, that our management is only intended to provide as healthy a forest as possible and not to try to prevent use or access to the Forest. We have many miles of roads and trails but the land cannot sustain unlimited or indiscriminant motorized use across the entire landscape. 

If you have further questions, or would like to discuss this further, please contact one of our offices in Cadillac, Baldwin, Manistee, Mio or Oscoda. 

Thank you again for your interest in the Huron-Manistee National Forests. 


Carol Nilsson 
Public Information Specialist 
Fire Information Officer 
Huron-Manistee National Forests 
1755 S. Mitchell Street 
Cadillac, Mi 49601 
(231) 775-2421 
Cell: (231) 878-3802 
[email protected]


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

When it comes to warm weather ORV users it seems to be the majority that are bad apples verses a few. It seem a wise decision to close roads before the damage happens rather than wait until after the damage occurs and it takes years to repair itself. Keeping roads open just for those to be able to drive to their hunting spot is not a very good excuse in my opinion.


----------



## bucko12pt (Dec 9, 2004)

The only counties in the Manistee National Forest that I could find that allows ORV use is Mason and that is only a few townships. Manistee county does not allow ORV use on county roads that I'm aware, so if there is rampant ORV damage being done it sounds like an enforcement issue of current laws. 

I understand the dumping problems and other issues, but as far as I'm concerned this is the Feds exerting their influence just like they attempted to do in Sleeping Bear. They wanted to totally close down that park and make it only accessible to hikers. Only the fact that local
people got up in arms about it stopped them from doing it. I will continue to fight them from closing down public lands to public access.

Is the UP next? Why would'nt it be?

My $ .02


----------



## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

I can't find the law right now, but this was brought during the conferences on the new management plan for Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore.

The National Park Service (NPS) wanted to create wilderness areas, and to do so, they had to close roads, including two tracks. One of the roads being discussed was Esch Rd near Empire. During these discussions, the Road Commissioner from Benzie County, and one other person brought up 2 points that the NPS couldn't argue.

1) The roads that run through the park could be, are some are platted roads, and therefore belong to the county. The only way the park service, in this case, can do anything with these platted roads is if the county were to donate, or abandon them. The NPS is not allowed to condemn, buy, or get these roads under their control in any other way.

2) The NPS wanted to create a wilderness area where humans weren't may not even be allowed, either by walking or any other way. To do that, the law states they need 10,000 contiguous acres, which the park service could not do in this case, unless they were to get these roads closed, which in looking at #1, they couldn't do.

The simple fact is, the NPS, or the Forest Service doesn't have as much power as they, or anyone else thinks they have. I could go on on this, but I won't at this time, unless you guys want more information, but I'll admit, it will sound conspiratorial, but it isn't.


----------



## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

As one who has land neighboring USFS land that had 2 track closures, I can attest that it's been a great thing.

The roads were the source of the problems.

When the roads were open, there was rampant trash dumping, deer carcass dumping, big parties with Woodstock like trash left behind, road hunting, pot plant fields planted deep in the woods that roads allowed easy access to, thieves driving back to private fence lines to steal treestands without having to walk them out any distance, trout stream bank eroision causing great damage to the fishery, etc. 

Boehr is 100% correct and he should know.


----------



## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

Bob, I have to agree with you and Boehr 100% but the problem for me is, is it legal for them to do so? While I think ORV's and other activities like you described are annoying, and noisy, the issue comes down to does the National Forest Service have the authority to do so? They may, or they may not; some research needs to be done to find out, thats all I'm saying. I just don't want to see the NFS or NPS use some back door tactics to Agenda 21.


----------



## wally-eye (Oct 27, 2004)

SA ULTRA MAG said:


> Walleye-eye,
> The road with those cabins has been closed for 20+ years. My youngest son is 19 now and I remember walking that road a couple years before he was born. That was the stream that dad taught us on in 1970, I know it well, use to drive all the way to the high banks. Wish the fishing was still good on that creek...it stinks now !




You're correct on it being more than 20 years. That's what happens when you get real old....

Started fishing that stream back in the late 50s....friend of the family had a cabin on the road a short way from the main road. Lots of brookies back in the 50s/60s.......


----------



## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

I can only speak of the USFS parcel next to me. I don't know anything about long established "real" roads in other area's.

All they closed off by me were informal two tracks created by the public and the roads the USFS specifically created for the sole purpose of their grouse management timber projects. 

They gated the new timber roads, with the roads being less than 10 years old and built just before the timbering, and they bulldozed huge piles of stumps and logs to block off the informal 2 tracks created by the public. 

Having dealt with the USFS on several occasions, they move so slowly after checking, re-checking, sending up the chain and back down the chain, layered redundancy, I would suspect that they have the authority to close the roads.

BTW, the possible hunting "closure" isn't a "true" hunting closure but a possible firearms closure. Archery hunting would still be allowed. 
And, the USFS did not propose it, it was a court case decision that brought this all about. An extra tidbit of info, it wasn't some liberal judge that made the decision but a GW Bush appointed conservative judge.
Basically, from what I understand, part of the USFS "mission/rules" is that a certain percentage of USFS must be "primitive/quiet" zones, for lack of a better word without knowing the exact USFS terms. 
It was from USFS's own rules that the case came about. The more I learn about the case and USFS's own rules, I'm not sure how they don't set aside 3-7% to archery only/no firearms discharge.

Personally, from reading of all the states that have large "archery only" zones, public land deer hunters would enjoy deer hunting better than they ever could have imagined by having some "archery only" zones in Michigan. 

Here's a couple links on the subject of archery only zones...

http://www.outdoorlife.com/node/45328

http://bowhuntworld.com/bow-hunting-tips/what-are-some-great-places-to-bow-hunt.html


----------



## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

On a side note, it appears that a large amount of the more recent sand problems in the Pere Marquette river main branch below M-37 was caused by ATV trails crossing the tribs up above it, causing terrible longterm erosion problems that will take years and possibly many $10,000's to $100,000's to undo.


----------



## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

Here's a USFS link on ATV erosion...
http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/pdf/ATV/TOContents.pdf


----------



## JimP (Feb 8, 2002)

As mentioned, Federal roads are off limits for ORV's except designated areas. 
As are many non designated State trails without a handicapped permit.
Manistee County has very few townships that have approved ORV use on County roads, in fact, a public hearing is being held to modify the County rules and add some continuity...
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=387348
The State law has activity/usage standards and penalties for damage repair and enforcement costs.
It seems to be an enforcement of existing law question.
Hit a few reckless pinheads with substantial fines and repair costs, publish the results and the word may spread.
The rest of us that putter around berry or mushroom picking, or just plain enjoying a scenic ride on the legal trails, shouldn't be punished through more restrictions.
We see a lot more game and activity at 10 MPH than fish tailing full throttle around corners at 40 MPH.


----------



## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Looks like a few more people will be buying hiking boots. One of the guys in my office is really complaining they did the same in the UP. Now he has to hike in a mile to his deer blind. Makes me wonder how he got back there before he had an ATV.


----------



## Rudi's Dad (May 4, 2004)

Pinefarm said:


> On a side note, it appears that a large amount of the more recent sand problems in the Pere Marquette river main branch below M-37 was caused by ATV trails crossing the tribs up above it, causing terrible longterm erosion problems that will take years and possibly many $10,000's to $100,000's to undo.


There ya go, Lake County, ORV paradise. I am glad they were first. But living in Mason Co, we are falling one township at a time.
It sux to see the special interest group of less than 2 dozen attending every township special meeting to promote ATV/ORV use on County Roads.
The County Commissioners for whatever reason wouldnt say yes or no, but passed the buck to the townships. (who seem to be caving in one at a time to the ORVers)


----------



## Wolverine1856 (Sep 26, 2006)

boehr said:


> When it comes to warm weather ORV users it seems to be the majority that are bad apples verses a few. *It seem a wise decision to close roads before the damage happens rather than wait until after the damage occurs and it takes years to repair itself.* Keeping roads open just for those to be able to drive to their hunting spot is not a very good excuse in my opinion.


My elderly grandparents use vehicles (car/truck) on the established two tracks to berry pick and mushroom hunt. They were not tearing anything up. They cannot walk miles at a time but enjoy spending some time in the woods.

I guess they should just sit in their chair and stay indoors now. Its too bad that people who fought for this Country are now being locked out of areas they have been going to for 20+ years because of a what if situation.

This reminds me of gun control. You better ban the guns now because there might be somebody that uses one inappropriately at some point in the future.

How about we enforce the current laws? If these people are operating illegally then fine them. Or we can just fence off all of the woods to really make sure people stay out.  

Boehr this was not directed at you but the comments inferred from the forest service letter.


----------



## MichMatt (Oct 24, 2008)

Here's what went into affect either one or two years ago in Lake Co. I don't ORV so I have no stake in this other than somebody not obeying the law and/or causing damage or an accident. 

http://lakecounty-michigan.com/2011 ORV Ordinance & Map.pdf


----------

