# Wolf Delisting - Good News?



## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

Robert Holmes said:


> She should have dismissed herself from the case. Possibilities of case law here.


I'm not a fan of Congress getting involved in issues like this normally, but they can fix this garbage with a delisting law.

Let me add this, I saw a wolf in the LP the same year the trapper killed one. It was on the Otsego Montmorency County line, and it stopped long enough for me to get a real good look. A coyote or a dog does not have a head the size of a 5 gallon bucket like this did.


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## WAUB-MUKWA (Dec 13, 2003)

Mech say's it best.
http://news.sciencemag.org/plants-a...s-call-lifting-protections-great-lakes-wolves


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## B.Jarvinen (Jul 12, 2014)

Hello, I have been wondering about something for I guess 18 months or so now.

Let's say the Wolf is de-listed, again.

What's next in Michigan? The 2 votes and then the action by Snyder &/or the Legislature achieved thorough confusion on my end. Who makes the next decision on a hunt? The NRC? The Legislature? It would have to be voted on again?


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

Spartan88 said:


> I'm not a fan of Congress getting involved in issues like this normally, but they can fix this garbage with a delisting law.
> 
> Let me add this, I saw a wolf in the LP the same year the trapper killed one. It was on the Otsego Montmorency County line, and it stopped long enough for me to get a real good look. A coyote or a dog does not have a head the size of a 5 gallon bucket like this did.


Will not tell you where I seen one a few years ago people would say I am nuts .


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

B.Jarvinen said:


> Hello, I have been wondering about something for I guess 18 months or so now.
> 
> Let's say the Wolf is de-listed, again.
> 
> What's next in Michigan? The 2 votes and then the action by Snyder &/or the Legislature achieved thorough confusion on my end. Who makes the next decision on a hunt? The NRC? The Legislature? It would have to be voted on again?


The DNR is ready to implement a season when their appeal or congress sees fit to put an end to this legal nonsense. The season will not be UP wide but only in areas where wolves have been determined to be a problem.


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## Zorba (Jan 24, 2007)

Just remember that it was the parvo virus that killed all the wolves on Isle Royal and it could easily happen here. Just let some sick dogs run wild and your wolf problem will be solved.


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## Midalake (Dec 7, 2009)

Luv2hunteup said:


> The DNR is ready to implement a season when their appeal or congress sees fit to put an end to this legal nonsense. The season will not be UP wide but only in areas where wolves have been determined to be a problem.


The DNR plan is a crock.................


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## hitechman (Feb 25, 2002)

Midalake said:


> The DNR plan is a crock.................


Well, it would be a heck of a lot better than the way it currently is.

Steve


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Zorba said:


> Just remember that it was the parvo virus that killed all the wolves on Isle Royal and it could easily happen here. Just let some sick dogs run wild and your wolf problem will be solved.



The parvo virus issue was a couple decades ago on isle royal. the article I read are claiming harsh winter and in breeding for the recent die off.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

The wolf management plan states that the DNR must manage wildlife so that there is enough wildlife to sustain a wolf population. This brings up a couple of questions. In the event that the deer population drops to nothing does the DNR farm raise deer and release them? Not very cost effective. Does the DNR live trap deer from the LP and release them in the UP? Not very cost effective. Do we kill enough wolves so that deer can naturally rebound? This is cost effective. I wonder if anyone has ever given that serious thought? With all of the pro wolf people out there don't they realize that it could come to an end. Sod farmers don't raise goats for a reason.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Look at what happened to the salmon in Lake Huron and Lake Michigan when the predator/prey situation went out of balance. Both the predator and the prey suffered. Can't people realize that hunting is an important part of management? Sooner or later Deer, Elk, and Moose will be the animals on the endangered species list not just in Michigan either.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Robert Holmes said:


> The wolf management plan states that the DNR must manage wildlife so that there is enough wildlife to sustain a wolf population. This brings up a couple of questions. In the event that the deer population drops to nothing does the DNR farm raise deer and release them? Not very cost effective. Does the DNR live trap deer from the LP and release them in the UP? Not very cost effective. Do we kill enough wolves so that deer can naturally rebound? This is cost effective. I wonder if anyone has ever given that serious thought? With all of the pro wolf people out there don't they realize that it could come to an end. Sod farmers don't raise goats for a reason.


Trapping and transferring 30-50k deer to the UP would not be cost effective but trapping and transferring 400 wolves to the lower would be. In fact UP sportsman groups would fund a good portion of it. The LP is part of Michigan too.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Trapping and relocating the wolves still would be very costly. I think that in the future you will be seeing the DNR dipping into the non game wildlife fund to provide funding for what they should have been doing for years and that is deer management. I really doubt that the DNR wants to see a few hundred wolves in the LP but it would be interesting to see how many people on this site become anti wolf overnight.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Robert Holmes said:


> Trapping and relocating the wolves still would be very costly. I think that in the future you will be seeing the DNR dipping into the non game wildlife fund to provide funding for what they should have been doing for years and that is deer management. I really doubt that the DNR wants to see a few hundred wolves in the LP but it would be interesting to see how many people on this site become anti wolf overnight.


It wouldn't cost the DNR a thing, just make it legal. All they would have to do is post Jill Fritz's home address and notify the news media for the first of many releases in her neighborhood.


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## B.Jarvinen (Jul 12, 2014)

The DNR has been working to improve Deer habitat in the U.P. through the Deer Range Improvement Program (DRIP) for many years now. That program helps private land-owners do things such as tree-plantings of thermal cover species (Hemlock, etc.), and soft and hard mast species (Oak and Apple, etc.) and probably many other land management strategies and techniques that could improve White-Tailed Deer survival. Such activities won't help Deer instantly, of course, but as the saying goes - the best time to plant a tree is yesterday. 

Meanwhile the Wildlife Division of the DNR has it's own habitat improvement projects on State Forest land here and there, and does participate in the management decisions made for those lands (4 million acres across all of MI).


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

The problem with the DNR DRIP program is that you have to own x# of acres of land to qualify and most people who are land owners do not apply.


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## B.Jarvinen (Jul 12, 2014)

True. Not everyone who owns land wants to work with a government agency. But the DNR does have a pretty active program to improve Deer habitat in the U.P., and a lot of work has been done already, including on State lands. But from what I can see working around the U.P., Deer aren't lacking sufficient quality habitat. More won't hurt though.


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## dallasdog (Nov 17, 2009)

Luv2hunteup said:


> New It's a shame that these do gooders don't realize they are doing more harm to the resource than helping it. It doesn't take a genius the realize that something is happening to quickly lower the wolf population in some areas even though wolves are now fully protected.
> 
> I've talked to more than one set of bear hunters this fall who are now using Xylitol to sweeten their bear baits. Chocolate was the sweetener used by many baiters until it was determined it could have harmful effects on bears. I know I've used it in years past. It seems that I get a wink and a smile when the subject of Xylitol comes up for sweetening their bear baits. High speed lead poisoning is another side effect of full protection.


This not the answer. I lost a good bird dog to some scumbag that decided to poison some meat and left it in the woods. If I ever catch that ******* we will both be going to jail. Or anyother ******* doing this. There are more dogs other then wolves and yotes roaming the woods.


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## Jack21 (Nov 24, 2015)

I'm always around Buttternut and Cable being an hour away, but didn't I read or hear on the news that the elk they just transplanted to that area die off?


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

My brother has been hunting a lease in Wisconsin. He says that there is no deer in Wisconsin due to the predators. So I guess we are getting very near to the point where the wolves natural prey is running very low. In the month before season started in the UP I found very little deer sign in my usual hunting areas. I did not buy a license this year. Either the wolves are going to start eating other critters or they will starve. Personally I hope that they all starve so that the anti hunters learn a lesson.


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## fairfax1 (Jun 12, 2003)

Post *#58* offered this: “_I lost a good bird dog to some scumbag that decided to poison some meat and left it in the woods. If I ever catch that ******* we will both be going to jail. Or anyother ******* doing this. There are more dogs other then wolves and yotes roaming the woods.”_

That post has traction. It is relevant to some of the over-the-top discourse that gets aired out on these ‘wolf’ threads. I would lobby the management here that any poster who even suggests, approves, or admires the use of xylitol or poison on this Michigan _Sportsman_ venue should be banned. It is the antithesis of what an outdoor ‘sportsman’ would do, or should do.

I am a ‘deer hunter’….not a fisherman, not a bird hunter…..deer are what I chase for recreation. So I understand the obsession with that animal. But, to think that anyone would be so focused on bagging a deer that they would resort to randomly poisoning an animal such as a wolf ( or a fox, or coyote, or spaniel, or a pointer, or a wolverine, or marten, or beagle) in order to protect their deer hunting hobby is…..is repulsive.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

fairfax1 said:


> Post *#58* offered this: “_I lost a good bird dog to some scumbag that decided to poison some meat and left it in the woods. If I ever catch that ******* we will both be going to jail. Or anyother ******* doing this. There are more dogs other then wolves and yotes roaming the woods.”_
> 
> That post has traction. It is relevant to some of the over-the-top discourse that gets aired out on these ‘wolf’ threads. I would lobby the management here that any poster who even suggests, approves, or admires the use of xylitol or poison on this Michigan _Sportsman_ venue should be banned. It is the antithesis of what an outdoor ‘sportsman’ would do, or should do.
> 
> I am a ‘deer hunter’….not a fisherman, not a bird hunter…..deer are what I chase for recreation. So I understand the obsession with that animal. But, to think that anyone would be so focused on bagging a deer that they would resort to randomly poisoning an animal such as a wolf ( or a fox, or coyote, or spaniel, or a pointer, or a wolverine, or marten, or beagle) in order to protect their deer hunting hobby is…..is repulsive.


His dog ate meat laced with anti freeze. How many threads have we seen on killing mice by drowning them in anti freeze. Mice are made of meat too. Why is it acceptable to poison some vermin and not others?


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## Josh R (Dec 4, 2010)

Luv2hunteup said:


> His dog ate meat laced with anti freeze. How many threads have we seen on killing mice by drowning them in anti freeze. Mice are made of meat too. Why is it acceptable to poison some vermin and not others?


Guess we gotta shut down mosquito control now

Pheasants and Walleyes


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## Tron322 (Oct 29, 2011)

dallasdog said:


> This not the answer. I lost a good bird dog to some scumbag that decided to poison some meat and left it in the woods. If I ever catch that ******* we will both be going to jail. Or anyother ******* doing this. There are more dogs other then wolves and yotes roaming the woods.


first person I have ever heard of for this tactic is midalake..and it made me sick since I visited Dickenson county hunting and fishing a few times a year. my dogs run and fish and hunt with me...I could not take the pain of losing a dog because my dogs found wolf poison from someone promoting it.

it was a year or two ago and it has stopped me from going there, I am not gonna be able to relax worrying about what my dogs are up to enough to hunt or fish.

I support a complete delete of any method that can hurt or kill peoples dogs, don't like a ban of that member unless it is outrageous, but a PM to each member who promotes poisoning canines is fair...this thread should be deleted and not give anyone any ideas.

same thing I said when I saw midalake write it a while back, delete this thread...and he said he heard it from someone else on here, it snowballs fast.


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## B.Jarvinen (Jul 12, 2014)

just this evening while fishing, discussing the Outdoors around the state, my neighboring fisherman commented on the U.P. - "yah, up there you really don't want to lose your dogs for very long - because you will lose your dogs"


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## fairfax1 (Jun 12, 2003)

Posts 62 & 63 seemingly attempt to equate the indiscriminate tactic of lacing bait to poison any wolf that finds it with the killing of mice and mosquitoes.

· _ “Mice are made of meat too. Why is it acceptable to poison some vermin and not others?” _

· “_Guess we gotta shut down mosquito control now”_

The attempt founders. Mice and mosquitoes have direct impact on the health and well-being of humans. Wolves rarely do. But wolves eat deer, while the poisoners hunt deer. For fun. And can’t abide their fun being challenged.

What results is a regrettable ethic that leads to some so-called ‘sportsmen’ to promote the practice of illegally poisoning random canines that happen to find their laced bait.

It is not sportsmanlike. It is illegal. It is immoral. And it is shameful.

………………………..

Now, having said that….I will agree with a post above that suggests that rather than banning members who advocate illegal poisoning that instead they could be warned via PM and their post deleted. That seems acceptable and still keeps a vibrant discourse in play. 

Of course, repeaters need bear the consequences of their behavior.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Some of you guys are worried about a nonexistent problem. There has not been one post from anyone saying their dog had been poisoned by Xylitol yet there has been countless posts about SSS. SSS has been directed at dogs on numerous posts mainly from zone 3 deer hunters. Look how many dogs killed by wolves have been posted but not a single picture of a dog poisoned by Xylitol. Where's the out cry?

Raccoon poising has been posted about many times.

If Xylitol was a problem you wouldn't be able to take it out of your kitchen. The DNR mentions chocolate not being recommended for bear baits but there is not one mention of Xylitol, I wonder why that is?


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## Midalake (Dec 7, 2009)

Tron322 said:


> first person I have ever heard of for this tactic is midalake..and it made me sick since I visited Dickenson county hunting and fishing a few times a year. my dogs run and fish and hunt with me...I could not take the pain of losing a dog because my dogs found wolf poison from someone promoting it.
> it was a year or two ago and it has stopped me from going there, I am not gonna be able to relax worrying about what my dogs are up to enough to hunt or fish.I support a complete delete of any method that can hurt or kill peoples dogs, don't like a ban of that member unless it is outrageous, but a PM to each member who promotes poisoning canines is fair...this thread should be deleted and not give anyone any ideas.same thing I said when I saw midalake write it a while back, delete this thread...and he said he heard it from someone else on here, it snowballs fast.


Yes I did hear it here first, but I have told many people about it [xylitol].
If you can't remember or forgot if it was a year or two ago that made you stop coming to Dickenson Cty.....It might be because it is actually spelt Dickinson.

If you came here now if fear your dog would be subjected to crunching sounds from wolves tearing it apart way before poison.

But it is all a mute point while we all suffer MILLIONS of dollars in lost property value and personal recreation in the UP.


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## Tron322 (Oct 29, 2011)

My dogs are always in my eyesight...no wolves have ever been seen by me, wolves seem very shy of people and avoid those out and about like me, fishing and bird hunting in sight of dogs at all times..you missed the point.

the point was those that try to poison the wolves with poison laced meat left out randomly that dogs will find and eat. you told everyone who can access this site and can read you can pick it up at Walmart when I originally talked to you a while back....I see you still haven't changed.

That ticked me off...sad to see you still support poisoning every canine around, but you spell check real good! Way to focus on the important points. u sur new wat county I said, eh?

I saw another post about dogs being poisoned here because the ******* who put the poison out thought a wolf would eat it...u still condone that. for all I knew that Hick read your thread the same time I did with directions and where to pick up the poison.... the mods should ban you and ban this thread.

if I am in the wrong for voicing an opinion against poisoning wolves where it may poison peoples dogs and other incidentals then the mods should ban me

try to keep up, I know you can do it...focus on what I am talking about you feel like talking to me.(I am talking about the first time I ever heard about poisoning wolves..and any other canine including my dogs...came from you, that's my point) hopefully you are against poisoning canines and have gone back and edited all your posts...in which case I apologize and am glad we are on the same page...poisoning is not an option.


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## Josh R (Dec 4, 2010)

fairfax1 said:


> Posts 62 & 63 seemingly attempt to equate the indiscriminate tactic of lacing bait to poison any wolf that finds it with the killing of mice and mosquitoes.
> 
> · _ “Mice are made of meat too. Why is it acceptable to poison some vermin and not others?” _
> 
> ...


A direct impact on the well being of humans and the Wolves aren't? Seriously? From the sounds of it, a lot of people are deathly afraid of the Wolves in the UP. Plenty of people saying they won't even take their dog into the woods up there. That sounds like a direct a direct impact to humans to me. 
My post, I guess, didn't look like sarcasm bit it was intended to be

Pheasants and Walleyes


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## WAUB-MUKWA (Dec 13, 2003)

B.Jarvinen said:


> just this evening while fishing, discussing the Outdoors around the state, my neighboring fisherman commented on the U.P. - "yah, up there you really don't want to lose your dogs for very long - because you will lose your dogs"


You will lose your dog to wolves, not poison.


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## WAUB-MUKWA (Dec 13, 2003)

I have to chuckle when I always hear yoopers are killing all the wolves with poison and poaching when in all the papers it's people living downstate.


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## Jager Pro (Nov 8, 2013)

Robert Holmes said:


> Trapping and relocating the wolves still would be very costly. I think that in the future you will be seeing the DNR dipping into the non game wildlife fund to provide funding for what they should have been doing for years and that is deer management. I really doubt that the DNR wants to see a few hundred wolves in the LP but it would be interesting to see how many people on this site become anti wolf overnight.


Why don't we get the HSUS to pay for it? I mean they give less than 1% of their income to shelters, so they should have plenty of money to spend helping animals


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Jager Pro said:


> Why don't we get the HSUS to pay for it? I mean they give less than 1% of their income to shelters, so they should have plenty of money to spend helping animals


They collect funds under false pretenses then invest it into their 401K accounts nothing illegal there I guess.


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## B.Jarvinen (Jul 12, 2014)

WAUB-MUKWA said:


> You will lose your dog to wolves, not poison.


yeah, that was my point. it is a perspective I've heard a few times the last few years. I don't know how common that is, but it is a common thought. I just work in the U.P. a month or three per year, and don't own any dogs. 

the one thing I have learned about Wolves for sure is that I don't need to bring up the topic, and I will still hear plenty of opinions on them.

my personal Wolf experience is - seen one, heard one. like the vast majority of wildlife I am lucky to see, I saw it while driving.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

B.Jarvinen said:


> yeah, that was my point. it is a perspective I've heard a few times the last few years. I don't know how common that is, but it is a common thought. I just work in the U.P. a month or three per year, and don't own any dogs.
> 
> the one thing I have learned about Wolves for sure is that I don't need to bring up the topic, and I will still hear plenty of opinions on them.
> 
> my personal Wolf experience is - seen one, heard one. like the vast majority of wildlife I am lucky to see, I saw it while driving.


I was just in the area where you were all summer. I saw all kinds of wolf tracks and 1 wolf. I swear every trail or road in the area had wolf tracks in it.


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## giver108 (Nov 24, 2004)

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...f-massive-congressional-budget-bill/77429288/

Well so much for delisting this time...


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

To all of the wolf lovers in the world please respond to this question. How many do you think is enough? Did you ever think of what happens when an animal population exceeds its carrying capacity?


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## Spartan88 (Nov 14, 2008)

giver108 said:


> http://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...f-massive-congressional-budget-bill/77429288/
> 
> Well so much for delisting this time...


And Gary Peters is part of the problem, what an a$$ hat...

Hope the UP gives him a warm welcome next time he shows his fat face up there...


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## MrFysch (Feb 9, 2008)

Another sad day for the UP deer herd. Typical political bull.


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