# pro guide 3 or simms g3



## Adam Peterson (Mar 20, 2006)

does anyone have the orvis pro guide 3's? I want to get a new pair of
waders and am thinking about either the orvis or the simms. What do you all think?


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

I have the Pro Guides, I forget how old they are, somewhere around 4-5 years with a good number of miles on them, and a fair amount of brush busting. Not one leak yet.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Check the warranties

From what I gather Orvis has changed manufacturers and now "allows" for repairs instead of instant replacements.

I've also had my Pro Guides for about 6-7 years and they're starting to leak a little around the seams. They really don't owe me anything though. I might try some Camp Dry.


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## DHise (Jun 2, 2008)

The new Pro Guides are excellent waders. The fabric is a little different at the top of the wader and the seam runs down the back of the leg (instead of the sides). This feature provides for a better fit and helps prevent rub on the inside of the legs. The Orvis warranty is outstanding (as usual). Sometimes they replace them and sometimes they fix them; it all depends on the leak (seam leaks they usually replace the wader). There is a pro-rated guarantee. Again, it all depends on the situation. If you get in a battle with barbed wire:yikes: and tear them to shreds, you will have to pay something to get them replaced. 

The Simms are great waders, as well. I have found, through the years, that repair/replacement turnaround often takes forever.


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## TC-fisherman (Feb 15, 2003)

got the new proguide 3 this spring after turning in an old proguide that leaked.

They keep you dry. Don't know for how long.

More pockets than the older pair. 
Nice fleece lined handwarmer pocket up front. Really big inside pocket.


One thing is i get the feeling they will be hot come summer. I used my old pair of orvis clearwaters the other day and I liked the lighter feel. If your going to fish may to sept think about a lighter cheaper pair.


BTW the proper response to "when did you got your waders" when returning them to orvis is "I got them 11 months ago as a gift."


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## DHise (Jun 2, 2008)

TC-fisherman said:


> BTW the proper response to "when did you got your waders" when returning them to orvis is "I got them 11 months ago as a gift."



It works but the only problem is they know how old they are. That is one reason they make changes to them on a consistent basis. Regardless, Orvis has the best customer service in the business.


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## brookid (Aug 25, 2004)

Yes, i have the new Pro Guide3's...picked them up in March. As the matter of fact i have them with me in the office right now. Why? well...i'm taking them back today. Why? well...i have a leak behind my right knee and in the crotch.

I got about 10 days in the ProGuide2's so maybe i should be happy that i got at least 20 days in these...

I own alot of Orvis gear, very happy with all of it. However, I think i'm done with Orvis waders...in my opinion they are junk.

Enduras to Silver Labels to ProGuide2 to Tailwaters and back to ProGuide3's in less than 3 years (all because of leaks in the seams)...yup, time to look at something else.


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## DHise (Jun 2, 2008)

I'm on my second pair of Tailwaters; my first pair were from about 8 years ago.


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## brookid (Aug 25, 2004)

Buddy has an off brand pair of $99 specials he got from Seirra Trading Post...fishes the same places i do and he's going on 3 years. 

I have no wader mojo...


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## DHise (Jun 2, 2008)

Unfortunately, the two constants in fly fishing is rods break and waders leak. We need those old rubber waders to come back. They work especially well when it's cold or hot.:bloos:


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## vando45 (Feb 25, 2004)

I have a pair of the Pro Guide 2's, they started leaking within a few months of buying them. I already have my claim in, but don't have the three weeks of no fishing to be without them. My last pair of silver labels lasted almost 4 years.

DHise: this is Steve, I think I returned a few pairs of waders to you over the years on E. Paris.


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## DHise (Jun 2, 2008)

Hey Steve. How are things? I hope you're fishing a bit.


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## Adam Peterson (Mar 20, 2006)

well I fish from jan. to dec. So I'm looking for something I could use year round. I use my cabelas super mags most of the winter. I like the features of the orvis and they are $50 less then the simms. The only thing is the orvis seem to be longer and I only have a 30" inseam and it says for my size the inseam is 32" to 36" I beleive and they might be way to long.


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## Chromedoggy (Mar 25, 2007)

Adam Peterson said:


> well I fish from jan. to dec. So I'm looking for something I could use year round. I use my cabelas super mags most of the winter. I like the features of the orvis and they are $50 less then the simms. The only thing is the orvis seem to be longer and I only have a 30" inseam and it says for my size the inseam is 32" to 36" I beleive and they might be way to long.


Adam, I have a 30" inseam as well. I wear the G3 large shorts. They are by far the best fitting and performing waders I have owned.


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## Adam Peterson (Mar 20, 2006)

the only problem I have is my chest it big, like 49/50" and my inseam is 30" so I would need the xxl/short but the inseam on those is 34/36" I dont see how that can be short. I really want the orvis but I think I'll need to get the simms just for the inseam!


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## DHise (Jun 2, 2008)

Try both of them. The Orvis are actually shorter than the size chart says. I've fit numerous people in them and they definitely run short.


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## fishinlk (Apr 14, 2000)

I've got the Simms G3's and have been extremely happy with mine. The size combinations are great. I had a self induced leak by accidently stressing a seam in the boot when putting them on to steelhead fish with my wading shoes. (Should have bought a size larger shoe for this) They turned them around EXTREMELY fast and I've not had another problem. This is my 4th season with these.


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## geojasstef (Jan 23, 2005)

I love Orvis products......... except for their waders. Had a pair of pro guide for christmas of 06 wore them about ten times and they started to leak around the seams by the knees. I was going to send them back but I didn't have time before my anual fishing trip. I took them back to the store, we first tried to fix them with aqu seal but it didn't work so I got a new pair of tailwaters in exchange. I had the tailwaters up in Grayling for ten days in May and no problems so far. Now my buddy had the same pro guides, purchased at the same time as me, and we both excanged them for tailwaters. The only difference was his brand new tailwaters leaked striaght out of the box. He took them back and exchanged them for a second pair. Orvis customer service is really great and the guys at my local orvis store are very helpful and friendly...............but will I buy another pair........probably not. I think I would go with simms at least they are still made in the USA. (I think)



By the way flyrods break and waders leak...........I just think that a $300 plus wader should last more than ten days.


PS this is my longest post ever I hope that you enjoy reading it....:lol:


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## Troutlord1 (Jun 6, 2007)

I worked in a shop that carried both Orvis and Simms waders. By far the
most repairs/leaky waders were the Orvis.I own a pair of both and prefer the Simms.I have the guide series and love em.Never had a problem.just my 2 cents.


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## DHise (Jun 2, 2008)

I haven't worn the new Pro Guides but here are the latest customer reviews on them. http://www.orvis.com/store/product_..._id=777&cat_id=5595&subcat_id=7312&pf_id=861K

As I said earlier, I have had 2 pair of Tailwater XT's in roughly 8 years and the first pair failed because of my ignorance (barbed wire). Here are the customer reviews on the Tailwaters.
http://www.orvis.com/store/product_...d=758&group_id=777&cat_id=5596&subcat_id=7313

Anyone wear cotton garments (like Levi's) under their breathable waders?


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## Carpe_Diem (Jun 15, 2008)

Don't waste your money on either you have mentioned. The Patagonia Watermaster II waders are a much better wader than any of the Simms or Orvis waders

The Patagonia's are cheaper than the Simms you mentioned and are much more dependable and just as comfortable. 

Why don't you call Ray Schmidt at Schmidt Outfitters and talk to him about why he dropped Simms and started carrying Patagonia. This seems to be a trend in many shops the last couple of years...

The Patagonia warranty and customer service is much better than the Orvis or Simms service. Especially the Simms!

I have not owned the Pro Guide 3's, but have owned many other Orvis waders including the Pro Guide 2's and they were junk.

I have owned the Simms G3's "2006 and 2008 models" and Classic Guide waders and they just do not compare to the Patagonia's in durability. They were just as comfortable, but never held up.

I think you will find that 90% of the time when guys say they have got 5 years out of any waders, they are lucky to fish over 50 days a year, but I can say that I put well over 400 days in less than two years on a pair of Patagonia waders before a seam began to leak. I couldn't even get 90 days out of a pair of Simms.


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## Banditto (Jun 9, 2000)

I picked up a pair of the Simms G3 at BPS and am really happy with them.


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## DHise (Jun 2, 2008)

> I think you will find that 90% of the time when guys say they have got 5 years out of any waders, they are lucky to fish over 50 days a year, but I can say that I put well over 400 days in less than two years on a pair of Patagonia waders before a seam began to leak. I couldn't even get 90 days out of a pair of Simms.


I guess I fall under the remaining 10%. You seem angry, Carpe Diem. Is everything okay?


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

All sweeping generalizations are wrong, including this one.


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## Carpe_Diem (Jun 15, 2008)

DHise said:


> I guess I fall under the remaining 10%. You seem angry, Carpe Diem. Is everything okay?


No not at all, just saying it like it is... Trying to give the guy what I feel is a realistic outlook on the lifespan of a pair of waders if you fish a lot...

Coming on a site and saying that you have been using such & such waders for how many years without a leak without telling the guy how much you really fish is not really helping the guy out.

I have no affiliation to any clothing companies, and could care less which company gets the sale. Personally I would love to see Simms get a sale as some of their waders are still made in the U.S., but my honest opinion is that the Patagonia's are the best wader on the market and their customer service is definitely the best. I tried Orvis and was not impressed, I have seen Orvis's own poster boy Matt Supinski cussing Orvis waders on the water with clients many times down here on the Joe as well so if he is having issues then I certainly don't feel like trying them again.

Anyway I was just giving my thoughts on what would be the guys best investment after a lot of what I feel was wasted money on other products. He can take it or leave it...


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## tommytubular (Jan 25, 2002)

I probably had more fun fishing when all I could afford was a pair of cheap rubber hips boots... complete with tire patches and shoe goo

to me... waders are like sunroofs

there are ones that leak

and ones that are about to leak

TommyT

for the record... I bought a pair of cabela's gold medal dry plus waders from the bargin cave for 56 bucks. Had a small leak in the seam above the left bootie I found on my first spring steelhead trip. Three years later.... same old leak in the same spot. I bought some aqua seal to fix it 2 years ago and haven't done it yet. But right now they are dry and think I will smear some of that stuff on them and see what happens. If it fixes it.... I'm sure gonna miss that leak


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## DHise (Jun 2, 2008)

Matt tends to cuss many things out; plus, he treats his gear like he bought it from the dollar store.

You get what you pay for regardless of what company it comes from. If there is a problem, it will be taken care of. Some companies do it quicker than others. I have personally had bad experiences with Patagonia customer service so I dont buy much product from them anymore. 

Cloudveil also offers excellent waders and great customer service.

Not that it matters; but, I have been on the water between 100 and 150 days a year since the late 1980's (give or take a few). My wife may think it's too much but I think it is just perfect.


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## Carpe_Diem (Jun 15, 2008)

DHise said:


> Matt tends to cuss many things out; plus, he treats his gear like he bought it from the dollar store.
> 
> You get what you pay for regardless of what company it comes from. If there is a problem, it will be taken care of. Some companies do it quicker than others. I have personally had bad experiences with Patagonia customer service so I dont buy much product from them anymore.
> 
> ...


I definitely agree with you about Matt. I have never actually fished with him, I just see him around down here in the summer a lot, but he is always tossing his gear around like he stole it. Also after giving it a bunch of thought, I do remember the exact models he was cussing. It was the ones with the wading boots attached...

I have had great experiences with Patagonia customer service. You are the first person I have ever heard complain about them in all honesty. 

Orvis always had great customer service as well, but I just had bad experiences with their waders. Never really used any other Orvis gear so can't comment on anything else they have to offer...

Simms failed me in both the customer service department and with their waders. I own a ton of Simms stuff and love everything they have except their waders. I REALLY took care of my G3's and I just could not get them to keep from leaking in the seams. I went as far as to go to a tux shop and get measured to make sure I was within the measurements for the size Large waders, which I was. In the case of these I don't feel you get what you pay for. Yes, they always fixed the waders, but who wants to have to be sending in their $400 waders all the time to be repaired?

I definitely realize a lot of it is personal preference and this is mine. Many of my friends have experienced the exact same stuff as me. I have been fortunate enough to put over a 150 days a year on the water over the past 10 years "maybe longer" and have tried out a lot of gear. Like you said it doesn't really matter, but it does allow us to see what we really like or dislike in products by using them that much. I have not found one brand that makes everything the best, but in the breathable stockingfoot wader department I have settled on Patagonia for now. 

Anywas sorry for hi-jacking the thread since the guy didn't ask about the Patagonia's, but I figured he may appreciate my input since I did have experience with the Pro Guide II waders and the Simms G3 waders and found for me the Patagonia's to be better.

Another option is the Dan Bailey Lightweights. They are no frills waders and only cost $200, but from what I hear are tough as nails. All the guys at speypages.com swear by them. Some guys are even saying they are tougher than the Patagonia's. Not sure, never tried them, but I have heard great things about them and Dan Bailey's customer service as well. 

Good fishing...


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## DHise (Jun 2, 2008)

Good angling....


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## brookid (Aug 25, 2004)

It only gets better!

My ProGuide3's are now back at Orvis and i'm waiting on an outcome. So last weekend i used my back-up pair of Enduras. That gives them a grand total of four days in Colorado and two in Michigan. 

Fast forward to this weekend, things were fine on Thurs & Fri. Saturday i went creek'n near the cabin, got done and noticed a small leak on the inside seam of my right knee. I went creek'n again on Sunday, now i have a small leak on the inside seam of the left leg and now the leak on the right side has gotten much worse because the inside of my leg from the knee to my ankle was wet.

Apparently your not suppose to crouch down or get on your knees...

The bonus came while walking out. I though something was caught on my wading boot because it felt like something was flopping around. Something was...my felt sole. Its about 80% off my right boot...kinda feels like a slipper. I look at the left one and its coming apart both on the toe and the heal. These are the new Orvis Brouges(sp) i bought end of season last year. I can't imagine they have more than about 50 days.

It never #ucking ends...store managers going to be real happy to see me tomorrow.


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## Brown duck (Dec 16, 2005)

Sometimes it's better to buy cheap, that way, your expectations aren't as high!


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## brookid (Aug 25, 2004)

Well, in the interest of fairness, i should note that they (Orvis) did everything you could ask in trying to rectify the situation.

I could have walked out the door with a replacement pair of Enduras and a replacement pair of Brogues. However, i just don't know when to quit.

I decided to pay the $10 difference and jump into the Henrys Fork wading boots. The felts are stitched in, which i guess could open up a whole 'nother set of issues down the road...but i'll deal with that if and when i get there. I also paid the $50 difference and jumped up to the Silver Labels...geez, it feels like i've been down this road before...

I didn't get an answer as to when my ProGuides will be back (or if they will just be replaced). Anyway, i leave for vacation Friday...i just hope the waders will last the week...


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

I have put a baziilion miles miles on orvis waders and it seems like each pair, (there have been many) looks better than the last but dont hold up as well. After talking to orvis non-service last week I am waiting for my LLbean wicked tough waders to arrive. The last guy I talked to at orvis struck me as a telemarketer with an attitude. The sweet young lady I used to get on the phone always got me a satisfactory solution. The LLbean guy I talked to seemed very knowledgeable with real world experience. LLbeans service is reputed to be 1st rate, I hope I dont have to test it too soon.


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## UBDSLO1 (Feb 23, 2004)

Some of you will laugh at me for this, BUT, I would like the Simms G3 waders. Right now the cost is holding me back. I will tell you though, I have a pair of bootfoot, Bass Pro Shops White River, breathable waders and really like them. They have survived 2 years in the brush in Alaska and 3 years here on MI rivers and streams. NOT 1 leak. I can't really believe it either, but I only paid 119.00 for them and they have lasted me this long. The 2 years in AK, I wore them for long periods of extended time, and I mean like 16-18 hrs per day. And walked thru some pretty mean brush with them. Still going strong. Oh, and throw in a couple of salt trips in there as well. Just thought I'd share my story.


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## brookid (Aug 25, 2004)

So i get a call at the office today that my waders are in. I wander down at lunch to pick them up and very curious to see what the scoop is.

They didn't replace but did a patch job. I'm not quite sure how i feel about that. The guy at Orvis explained to me the process of finding the holes but unfortunately i was only half listening as i was digging through the waders.

He said something about filling them up up with water, a dark room and a red light.

Anyway, once i turned them completely inside out i was surprised to find numerous circles and arrows pointing to areas that were made with a sharpie. Areas that i hadn't noticed leaks, quite a few up near the handwarmer pouch and many, many along various seams. It looks like they put a bunch of epoxy both inside and out and added a bunch more tape.

I only had about 20 days in them...seemed like an awful lot of problem areas. I guess all i can do now is see what happens. I asked the guy what happens if this doesn't hold...bring 'em back he said. I hope i don't have to go down that road...again.


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## geojasstef (Jan 23, 2005)

Brookid

I had the same problem. (see post below) Take them back and get your money back if your not happy. I'm pretty sure that you have spent a small fortune with Orvis, I know I have.
They should be compensating you for the BS that you have had to go through. If my new pair spring a leak I'm going to try and get my money back.



geojasstef said:


> I love Orvis products......... except for their waders. Had a pair of pro guide for christmas of 06 wore them about ten times and they started to leak around the seams by the knees. I was going to send them back but I didn't have time before my anual fishing trip. I took them back to the store, we first tried to fix them with aqu seal but it didn't work so I got a new pair of tailwaters in exchange. I had the tailwaters up in Grayling for ten days in May and no problems so far. Now my buddy had the same pro guides, purchased at the same time as me, and we both excanged them for tailwaters. The only difference was his brand new tailwaters leaked striaght out of the box. He took them back and exchanged them for a second pair. Orvis customer service is really great and the guys at my local orvis store are very helpful and friendly...............but will I buy another pair........probably not. I think I would go with simms at least they are still made in the USA. (I think)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## IncredibleHook (Jan 16, 2005)

I sent in a pair of the original Orvis Pro Guide waders and noted to them I was not satisfied with the construction as there were a few leaks along the seams and either wanted a replacement or a refund and they promptly sent me a box of brand new Pro Guide 3. Damn shame I haven't even used them due to health reasons. Anyone interested in size XXL Orvis pro guide 3 waders send me a pm, ill make you a heck of a deal.


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## colehatch (Jun 18, 2003)

brookid said:


> They didn't replace but did a patch job. I'm not quite sure how i feel about that. The guy at Orvis explained to me the process of finding the holes but unfortunately i was only half listening as i was digging through the waders. He said something about filling them up up with water, a dark room and a red light.


I've got this same situation and I hope this isn't the outcome I dropped a pair of 1.5 year old Pro Guides off at the Orvis shop 3 weeks ago and haven't heard a thing yet. Even before the "real" leak started I always had issues with them leaking at the seams around the knees. I have a buddy who's been wearing some cheapo knock off waders for like 4 years now and he's dry as a bone every time I'm sitting on the tailgate wringing out my socks.:rant:


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## Long Spurs (Mar 29, 2005)

Simms, had my pair four four years of hard fishing! I usally give two years lifespan of hard fishing, on a pair of wadders. Duck hunting wadders a new pair every year.


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## colehatch (Jun 18, 2003)

I was out cutting the grass this evening and when I come in there's a voicemail. I listen to it and it's Orvis calling about my waders that they "repaired". I haven't talked to anyone one yet but by the sound of the message it doesn't look good.


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

Gander Mountain Guide Series...........if they leak walk in hand them to the sales person, they hand you a new pair.

Have had mine around 6 years, paid for the first set.......replaced them once........129.00 when I bought them.


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