# Tree ID



## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

I have a chicken of the woods growing on the base of this tree. I believe it is a rock cedar but might be all wet on that.
It may be an ironwood though, I looked it up and the leaves are close as well as the bark. I just have to see it seed next time. I think it was in spring/early summer but not completely sure. I never gave it much attention until now. Pics below, leaves are from a younger branch, the tree is about 50 ft. tall maximum. Any ideas are welcome.


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## beerun (Mar 8, 2005)

Green Ash
White Ash
Dogwood

There's my three guesstimates


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## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

Ashes are out, definitely not the same leaf structure. Will have to look up dogwood, thanks.


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## Sib (Jan 8, 2003)

Looks like it could be a blade duller, I mean ironwood. :lol: Most of the leaves that I see have more pronounced teeth, but there are plenty of variations within a species. When it goes to fruit it will have fruit like hops if it's an ironwood, as it's also know as the hophornbean, or hop hornbeam. But we always called it ironwood and I can't think of anything that dulls a blade faster than that tree. :rant:


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## WALLEYE MIKE (Jan 7, 2001)

Not ironwood. Ironwood has smooth grayish bark and is rarely over 5 in. in diameter.


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## VARMINTHUNTERLAKEORION (Jan 12, 2005)

To me it does have the bark of an Ironwood - but I've never seen any larger than say 12" dia - Excellent wood for the stove, burnt lots of it. But what makes me believe that it's a White ash -is the fact that there's a Hen of the Woods growing on it. I have never found a Hen of the Woods growing on a Ironwood, I pick shroons throughout the season and it would be a first.


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## Sib (Jan 8, 2003)

WALLEYE MIKE said:


> Not ironwood. Ironwood has smooth grayish bark and is rarely over 5 in. in diameter.


I agree about the 5" diameter, but I believe it to have a rough bark, much like the bark posted in the pic.


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## Rondevous (Mar 14, 2005)

WALLEYE MIKE said:


> Not ironwood. Ironwood has smooth grayish bark and is rarely over 5 in. in diameter.


Hophornbeam aka iron wood does get larger.
Are you thinking blue beech

Any chance you can shinny up the tree and take a close up of a branch with leaves


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## Airoh (Jan 19, 2000)

There's 2 ironwoods in michigan 
Hornbeam sometimes called bluebeech. Looks like a lumpy small diameter beech tree.

And hophornbeam. Hophornbeam has a fuzziness to the bark

The bark and leaf in the picture looks like an ash.
It is easy to tell if it's an ash by checking to see if the leaves are growing in clusters of five to seven leaves.


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## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

Thanks for the replies I really want to know what this tree is. I know what an ash is and it is definitely not an ash. The ashes leaves are opposite each other in groups not staggered all the way to the end of the branch like this tree. I need a better book though I think. My wife's grade school book isn't the best but covers the basics.

Here is a branch photo, if it ain't good enough I can try another one. I am too old to climb for it, this is a low young branch. The lower part of the tree is pretty well choked by all the cedars but this branch came out several years back when a storm took out the cedar next to it and about 1/4 of the crown of this tree. It has scaley bark and is a good 20 inches in diameter. Wish I had paid attention to its seeds, I do recall some small pine cone looking things around the yard which is kinda what ironwood seeds resemble. I just ain't positive. Our soil is pretty much clay. I did wonder if the chicken didn't come with the neighbors wood chips though. Seen morels come with wood chips and potting soil before.


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## WALLEYE MIKE (Jan 7, 2001)

Wish I had my tree book. Daughter has it.


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

My guess is ironwood, and some can get large. My second guess would be shagbark hickory but you should be seeing some kind of nut, may be what you are describing as pine cone like.


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## Rondevous (Mar 14, 2005)

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/herbhunters/hophornbeam.html

Look at the stem and leaf structure in this pic.
Does that ring a bell?


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## Rondevous (Mar 14, 2005)

I have one other wild guess.

Looking at the bark which appears to scale cup like, instead of length wise like Hophornbeam, I am thinking it maybe a type of birch.
Larger birches have scalely fissured barks.
Check out sweet birch although out of the native range it could have been planted?

This is fun


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## MAttt (Dec 15, 2004)

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/forestry/Education/ohiotrees/treesindex.htm

Hello OGM 
This is the best tree site I know of for ID photo's of all parts of a tree,
maybe you can matchup what you seen earlier on the ground.

The Bark tells me it is definitely not Ironwood or any type of Ash.
I have 3 tree books of Michigan and think the seed or fruit will
give you the positive ID. Could be an import, anymore like it in the
area? 

Matt


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## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

Lots of good suggestions, ironwood appears out by the bark. Am thinking black birch is a close one, the bark is birchey lookin especially on the young branch.
I still ain't letting go of the rock elm yet, would be nice to see a bark pic of one, but then the base of the leaves do not look like a typical elm leaf but they do look like the pic in the book I have of a rock elm.
This could also be a planted foreign species as suggested. Will definitely look at the seeds next time they form.
I'll poke around some websites a little more and see about a better book.
Kinda frustrated about it actually, thanks for the input everybody.


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

Nice link Mattt, thanks. After looking at shagbark hickory on that site I will have to withdraw that one as a choice.


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## Icehole Ken (Dec 24, 2003)

I've never seen a 50' ironwood, and the bark isnt such. The leaves are definatly not ash, I'm guessing some kind of elm.


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## Blue Mist (Nov 19, 2002)

My guess is Rock Elm...except the leaves should be doubly serrate. That means medium notches with smaller notches in between. It is hard to see that in the pictures you posted. Could you check a few more leaves and look for that pattern? Sometimes you get a variation in the leaves and after looking at a few more leaves, an ID will become more apparent. As others have stated, fruit, flowers or even winter buds will help to ID it for sure. The Rock Elm seed is 1/4-1/2" and circular. It looks like a small seed pasted in the center of a round piece of paper. We'll get it sooner or later.

Randy


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## MAttt (Dec 15, 2004)

Looking at all 3 photo's and holding a leaf up to the screen,
my best guess is Black Cherry which will not always have
cherries.
Bark matches,leaf matches and is a common host of both types
of chickens. 
Definitely not any type of elm IMO based on the leaf.

Mattt


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## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

Rock elm appears to be the most likely match. I'll try some better leaf pics soon. Cherry is out, not dark enough for one thing.
It has the sawtooth leaves of an elm. My wife agrees it seeded earlier in the year and the seeds looked like an elm seed. Roundish/flat with a little dark spot in the middle.
It definitely ain't an American elm but fully fits the rock elm description so far. She said of course we have little pine cone looking things around, WE HAVE PINES! Duh, I think she is right.


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## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

The leaves do look like cherry don't they. The tree does not look like the cherries I see out shrooming though. It doesn't fruit but does flower or seed white for sure. It is possible the elm seeds we saw were from one of the neighbors american elms, there are two biggens up wind of our yard.
This is getting to be a lot of work, I imagine it is one of the trees already mentioned by someone. I'm pretty confused about it now though, here is another branch pic.

Oh yeah a few leaves are starting to turn yellow already, if that means anything.


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## MAttt (Dec 15, 2004)

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/forestry/Education/ohiotrees/cherry.htm

Hello OGM
That last picture clinches it for me and the leaves turning yellow is also
a key. The wild black cherry is very common in my area and I see them daily.
Personally I think IDing trees is as much fun as learning new shrooms.
Can be frustrating, but it's just like building a puzzle to me.
Very satisfying one you get all the pieces to fit.
Check it out in the spring for the flowers that are posted in the link
to appear.
On another note, you can look forward to that chicken showing up on a yearly basis, and under the right conditions can get 3 times the size it did this year.
Even if you don't pick it due to chemicals, it will be a good indicator
that others within the area will be fruiting at the same time.
One of my favorites that has the texture and taste of chicken.

take care
Mattt


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## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

I'd say that is it, CHERRY. I never would have guessed it but that link you put up MAttt shows the branch exactly as the one on the tree is. But I wonder why we never get any fruit? Could the birds be that quick on them?

Thanks again!


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## MAttt (Dec 15, 2004)

Hello OGM

Went out to the lake fishing after work today and since the parking area
is full of Big Black Cherry trees, I thought I'd scan them for cherries.
Of 15 I looked at, less than half had any, most of which I had to spot those pea sized berries they get with binoculars. 
A couple had quite a few and were starting to drop them.
The birds were having a feast with these trees.

Mattt


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## Ranger Ray (Mar 2, 2003)

MAttt said:


> Looking at all 3 photo's and holding a leaf up to the screen,
> my best guess is Black Cherry which will not always have
> cherries.
> Bark matches,leaf matches and is a common host of both types
> ...


All hail MAttt!


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## Icehole Ken (Dec 24, 2003)

I agree with the cherry, but it is not a black cherry. Black cherry has the scaley dark potato chip type of bark, sort of like a hickory. The photo he shows looks sort of like ash bark. I think there is a so called Wild cherry, I have both on my property, but I cant find the wild cherry in a book. The bark he shows and the leaves match the tree in my yard that I call a wild cherry. It does have little cherrys, but the bird clean it right up. I have quite a few black cherry trees, but I never see any fruit on them.


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## MAttt (Dec 15, 2004)

I guess perception from a photo can be deceiving, but if you read the
content you will see it describes the bark as you suggest.
As far as cherry trees, other than the ones grown for commercial
harvesting or imported ornamentals, Michigan only has 3 that
grow wild. The Black Cherry(aka Wild Black Cherry) is the only one
that reaches the 50 ft. plus range and young ones actually have
smooth bark. 
The other 2 are pin and choke cherry which are quite smaller.
But I guess you could call them all wild black cherry just by
looking at their fruit.

As far as the 3 types of ash trees that Michigan has, all will have
a diamond shaped pattern on the bark.
Doesn't matter anymore where I live since there are no
living ones left here now.
Just a memory at this point.

Mattt


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## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

At first I did not think it looked like a cherry at all being too light colored and the bark not quite right. I went to the neighbors yard a couple days ago and can se a spot up near the top, sure enough it is more like what I see in the woods shroomin. Larger scales of bark and darker.


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## itchyscratchpad (Jan 22, 2002)

This post sure had legs. I think though, that it is a hackberry tree. The leaf and bark ID is a perfect match. Hackberry trees are fairly common along wetlands and lakes. Let me know...

Rich


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## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

Itchyscratchpad, I'd say close but no cookie. The link MAttt put up was a perfect match for the mature branches. The leaves of a hackberry in my book do not quite look like the more mature ones in this tree. While I am now certain about the cherry I will definitely get some of the seeding/flowering next spring, even if I heve to shoot a branch down! Thanks for the input though.


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