# What is the right thing to do?



## beer and nuts (Jan 2, 2001)

Alot of cripples become cripples waaayy after the fact of someone shooting them...those birds take a pellet or two and can fly away like you missed only to be come cripples 1 mile down the way...so please do not jump to the conclusion that every cripple is someone NOT retrieving it or making an attempt.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

beer and nuts said:


> Alot of cripples become cripples waaayy after the fact of someone shooting them...those birds take a pellet or two and can fly away like you missed only to be come cripples 1 mile down the way...so please do not jump to the conclusion that every cripple is someone NOT retrieving it or making an attempt.


Yep, good point. As I said before, cripples happen in this game, like it or not. And often it's just not avoidable.


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## happyhooker2 (Nov 11, 2005)

Duckman Racing said:


> Too bad you didnt pick up at least one of those ducks and the goose, because you still would have been legal. I saw in your other post that one of your 6 birds was a Merg, those dont count towards your 6 duck limit, and neither do geese.


Yea I know I had a merg, but like I said I wasn't sure what the legal thing to do was so I played it safe.


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## happyhooker2 (Nov 11, 2005)

beer and nuts said:


> Alot of cripples become cripples waaayy after the fact of someone shooting them...those birds take a pellet or two and can fly away like you missed only to be come cripples 1 mile down the way...so please do not jump to the conclusion that every cripple is someone NOT retrieving it or making an attempt.


I do agree with that. It was just sad because it was so many birds, crippled or dead, and the fact that there were 2 other hunting parties in the near area. Makes me wonder if they were shot by these 2 parties, or if they didn't both to try to retrieve them. We'll never know.


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## King Quack (Jul 16, 2003)

About the modern world of technology we live in. Most people carry cell phones with them now days. We had three phones in our group of four Saturday. In all these post not one person suggested doing the right thing, by *CALLING THE DNR *and asking for some direction on what you should do. My guess is the officer would have said pick them up and he/she would have met you at the ramp to turn them over. Problem solved...The cripples get killed and picked up. If you didn't have a phone I would say the best option would be to leave them there. As stated earlier Foxes gotta eat to and the birds would have done just that.


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## ducwackor (May 29, 2007)

Dead Bird.......as a "moderator" is it also your job to imply that I would leave dead or cripple birds lay without picking them up?

I guarantee you would not have the guts to say that to my face.


I find it very funny. As I stated in a different post, "if your not one of the chosen few on this site, guys can't wait to pick you apart".

Feel free to shoot me a PM and you and I can meet up and discuss this in greater detail.


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## ducwackor (May 29, 2007)

I will even post EXACTLY where I was hunting.

We were Dead center in the middle between Selfridge and the New Baltimore Water Tower. About 3/4 of a mile from shore, right where the ice stopped.

Now if happyhooker posts that we were hunting the same area, he would have certainly saw us hunting. 

Every single bird we shot was picked up and counted towards our bag limit. I normally don't leave even dead birds lay on the water for more that a couple minutes, but since they were only floating at times 20 yrds, and they were in clear site(water was flat calm) there was no problem.

Some of you guys can say whatever you want about me, that I think I'm an "expert", or know it all or whatever, it doesn't bother me.

But when a "MODERATOR" put up a post that Implies that I am a game Violator, well that's over the line. I deserve a apology.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

ducwackor said:


> Dead Bird.......as a "moderator" is it also your job to imply that I would leave dead or cripple birds lay without picking them up?


Where did anyone say you did that??? Heck, I even went so far as to point out that you were on LSC, and HH was on Lake Erie, which I thought was HELPING YOU OUT :lol:



ducwackor said:


> I guarantee you would not have the guts to say that to my face.


You make a statement like that, then ask us to respect your opinions??? C'mon man, this isn't the kindergarten playground here where bullies rule. So called "chosen few" on this site follow the rules, and act like adults. 



ducwackor said:


> I find it very funny. As I stated in a different post, "if your not one of the chosen few on this site, guys can't wait to pick you apart"...


I don't think anyone is "picking you apart". From my experience, this is one of the friendliest, and most helpful, boards around. But respect is earned over time. Those of us who are regulars here have not gotten there overnight. People here (moderators included) can only learn about you from your posts, and you haven't exactly earned a gold star in the last couple days. Why would you expect anything else than what you've gotten? 

Here's my suggestion for you...next time you type a statement like


ducwackor said:


> I guarantee you would not have the guts to say that to my face.


, make sure you read your draft post and think about it before you hit the submit button. And filling out your personal profile (as I suggested you do once before) is a good way to help all of us know who you are, where you're from, how much experience you have, yada, yada, yada.


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## Shlwego (Sep 13, 2006)

OK, so here's a question. Season is now closed. No hunting allowed, period. But what about going out today and picking up those birds? Many hunters "let their birds hang" for a day or two before cleaning them, so if these birds are on the ice, the meat should still be fine. If you go out today with no gun in your posession and run a dog for cripples or merely pick up dead or severly crippled birds that you dispatch by hand, are you in trouble if you get checked by a CO at the launch? You were not hunting, you were merely gathering. Is this prohibited? If not, is there a limit on how many you can bring in? I'm assuming the posession limit at least would still be in effect, right?

[EDIT: I just posted this question on the Ask the Conservation Officer forum on the MDHA site. I'll post up his response here when I get it.]


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## ducwackor (May 29, 2007)

Just Ducky,

You did "help me" with your post. But are you serious with saying "where did anyone say you did that".....

Dead Bird:
well as I was reading how everyone did... I found this..

*Since we were hunting 40 yrds upwind from the Ice, there was no need for the tender to come and pick up the birds until we were done and made a shift change at the same time.*

I am guesing you hunted the same area...



Now it's obvious that he's referring to all the dead birds happy hooker found laying in the ice, then he post that. Come on, that's plain as day. He did everything besides saying it was probably me who left those ducks behind.

And by me saying, I guarantee that you would have the guts to say that (to call me a violator) to my face. Is there really anyone who would put up with such nonsense? 

As far as filling out my profile..........what would that prove. Guys already insinuate that I'm exaggerating or I consider myself an expert. So think what you will, filling out my profile wouldn't change a thing.

Here I will show you......

I grew up on the St Clair Flats. I am almost 40 years old. I shot my first duck when I was 7 or 8. I have hunted the Flats area all my life, started working for a charter capt. who guided layout hunters when I was around 15. I had a good friend who was a Native American and I would hunt with him on Walpole where there were no limits. Bought my own layout rig when I was 18. I hunt both Divers and Puddle Ducks. I also am big into Goose Hunting. I hunt Canada on a regular basis. I've waterfowl hunted in a dozen different states. A couple of years ago I went to Argentina and shot more ducks in 5 days than most guys get a chance to shoot in 5 seasons. I have been around the block a time or two when it comes to waterfowl hunting.

So there it is. Do I think I know a lot about Duck hunting, yes I do. Do I believe that I have Hunted/Shot more ducks than 95% of the hunters out there, yup I do. But that's because I started young, had several great teachers, hunted all over this country and Canada. Which most guys are not so lucky to be able to do. Guys who hunt with me know that I am very passionate about this sport. 

Do I think that I'm better than anyone, no I don't.

Now, I can only imagine the negative responses I will get with that "getting to know me" post.


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

I think a few had the same opinion, sometimes the right thing to do isn't always the legal thing to do. 

Depends where you are I guess, it is downright a shame to see ducks wounded and not disptached. Depressing. That is why I have a dog who likes to go get my downed birds. I know there are times a dog can't go fetch in certain conditions. But man, I am not sure what I woul dhave done. Knowing the season just opned and those dead birds were fresh birds...... How does a fox swim a mile off shore to get a free meal ? Do fish eat the ducks ? I dunno. I doubt at a big place like Lake St Clair (i never Been There) that the varmits would have a chance to go out on the ice and get the free meal. If the birds were up near a wooded area and varmits were definately in the area I would think they would do well and not worry so much.

Sorry about your luck HH, that is a dilema you got into. But glad your shoot went well, great job !!!


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## stacemo (Oct 23, 2003)

Seagulls and eagles will eat those dead ducks.


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## happyhooker2 (Nov 11, 2005)

Just for the record. The dead birds and cripples I found were at the mouth of the Detroit River/Lake Erie. I am sorry that my post got into a war with some people. I was just bascically asking all what would you do and what was legal since I never came across a situtaion like this before. I had a cell phone with me but its battery life was low and was kept just for emergencies. I apologize to anyone if I started something.


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## everlast1 (Nov 9, 2006)

stacemo said:


> Seagulls and eagles will eat those dead ducks.


 Exactly, Unless you saw a broken wing how do you know they were cripples ? Could be sick. Sometimes its better to let nature take care of things.


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## happyhooker2 (Nov 11, 2005)

1 wing flapping, spinning in a circle, not being able to fly and visible blood on the head and breast is a dead give away. These birds were NOT sick.


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## everlast1 (Nov 9, 2006)

If thats the case then its up to the indivdual, in other words if it bothers you kill em. If not let the gulls, eagles and turtles have them.


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## SuperBlackEagle2 (Nov 4, 2005)

Water_Hazard said:


> Sometimes the right thing to do isn't always legal.


Short, to the point, and absolutely correct in my opinion.


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## happyhooker2 (Nov 11, 2005)

everlast1 said:


> If thats the case then its up to the indivdual, in other words if it bothers you kill em. If not let the gulls, eagles and turtles have them.


 
It doesn't really matter what bothers me, the reason for this post was to 

A. Get others view on what was legal to do
B. If you didn't have a limit of birds or no birds at all, would it be legal to 
include them in you daily bag limit.

I don't want to personally see birds suffer and I hope a reasonable attempt was made to retrieve these birds. I understand cripples happen and they get away from us and our great hunting dogs.

I didn't start the thread about what bothers me, it was just a post to see what some seasoned and unseasoned hunters would do in this situtation or in a situtation were they had room in their daily bag. Because frankly, in either scenario you put me in, I still wasn't sure what was the "legal" thing to do, but I know what the moral thing was to do, but I didn't do that because I had 6 birds(1 was a mergie so I prolly could have took 1 bird and the goose) but I would rather be safe and be able to hunt another day, than break any laws. Although there were some beautiful birds and a lot of good meat to be had, thats what was sad. I guess the dumpster ducks (seagulls) get something good to eat for a change instead of McDs and dirty baby diapers(thats another story!!!!! LOL!!!!!!).


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## everlast1 (Nov 9, 2006)

There are times when you need to use common sense and forget the law.


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## cshire (Sep 10, 2004)

Here is what I did in a similar situation -

The sunday before Xmas the season was closed in Michigan but still open in Ohio. I took a long scouting walk to the end of the Woodtick Peninsula, which at it's tip is about 600 yards from Ohio waters.

Along the beach I came across 5 or 6 crippled bluebills and 1 goose. They were all blown in to water less than 2 feet deep and were withing 100' of the brushy/wooded area past the beach.

I had no gun with me but could have easily (I think) caught them by hand and finshed them off. I could have left them lay for the predators and scavengers or taken them home with me.

I elected to leve them alone. They were close enough to shore that the yotes and foxes should be able to get them and I was concerned what would happen to me as far as loss of hunting priveledges, etc if I were to take action. Oh yeah, my girlfriend was walking with me and would have screamed bloody murder if I were to actually wring any necks in front of her.

On the way out of the parking area at the end of the day a county sherrif was pulling into the area, I assume just a routine look around. At that point I was glad that I wasn't seen walking to the car and carrying out of season and overlimit ducks.

The funny part is that I got real excited when I first saw the first bluebill - I thought I had found a really nice decoy washed up until I got closer and the "decoy" started swimming away.


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## cupped-n-locked (Jan 5, 2006)

I hope you checked them for bands????:lol:


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## Quaaack (Nov 22, 2007)

cupped-n-locked said:


> I hope you checked them for bands????:lol:


 
I was thinking that too...:lol:


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## Duck-Hunter (Mar 31, 2005)

Should have called a buddy or two and picked them up at the launch.


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## cshire (Sep 10, 2004)

"I hope you checked them for bands????"



I was thinking that too - on the ride home.

It was pretty much a split second decision to leave them alone and I then went wide around them and made sure my beagles didn't chase them.


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## cshire (Sep 10, 2004)

Duck-Hunter said:


> Should have called a buddy or two and picked them up at the launch.


 
Just to be clear, I was in Michigan and the season was closed. I'm guessing these birds were shot by the layout hunters in Ohio waters where the season was open and made it to the beach in MI waters. (600 yards from the state line).

If the season was open in MI and I didn't have a limit in possession I would have finished off the crips up to my limit and taken them home. As it was with the season closed any duck would be over the limit for me and anybody else on the MI side.


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## LoBrass (Oct 16, 2007)

I think I would have alerted another group of hunters to try to recover some of the birds. Anytime someone does good, somebody does poorly. Pick an unlucky hunter up at the launch and go "crip hunting". 
One thing you never want to do is head in with too many birds. That is a ticket in the making. It's also a major infraction which can lead to lose of hunting rights.
You did the right thing, unfortunately.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

ducwackor said:


> I am guesing you hunted the same area...


I guess I just don't read into that what you do, but then again it wasn't posted in response to a comment that I made. So I can see why you may feel slighted.

Thanks for providing some background on yourself, because believe it or not it really does help people get to know you...silly as that may seem, it does help. 

I'm calling a truce to the war of words here. As I said before, this is one of the most helpful and friendly forums I've seen. Try spending some time over on the Quality Deer Management forum if you want criticism :yikes: A person like myself who likes to take some venison each year, but couldn't give a rip about size of the rack, is crucified over there.

So let's quit hijacking the original thread and get back to the topic...what to do when you run into that situation of finding all those cripples.....


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Hunt long enough and this is bound to happen.

We were down to one goose in our bag at the Todd Farm and had a lung shot goose come into our spread, circle, and die. My poor friend got his limit without shooting. It's not like we were going to leave it. Still give him crap about that.

Hunted a private field that had been hunted that morning by another crew. Found a dead drake, a crippled hen, and about a dozen dead and crippled sea gulls. Talked to the farmer, and we knew the guys, so we killed and rounded up the gulls after the hunt and dropped them off at their house with a note saying don't bother hunting there again, or the DNR would be involved. Added the ducks to our bag right away.

Spent 13 rounds anchoring a crippled merg on the ride out to an afternoon hunt one time. I hate having to chase down my own crips like that, but to mop up someone else's is nuts. But then, it turned out the lake was burned and that was the only bird I got.

In your case, the first thought in my head was "look for bands and upgrade my six". Even though it's the legal thing, leaving those ducks is not right, but how would the DNR officer ever know? I've left a goose dead 5' into a refuge, and thrown back many a dead laker. Just sucks, that's about all you can say.


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## Dead Bird (Oct 2, 2001)

ducwackor said:


> Dead Bird.......as a "moderator" is it also your job to imply that I would leave dead or cripple birds lay without picking them up?
> 
> I guarantee you would not have the guts to say that to my face.
> 
> ...


no need for a PM.... most know where to find me.... I have no problems with meeting people from the site.... being a mod does not put me above anyone in my opioins or thoughts...

by the way my name is Johnny... my wife is working tomrw but I am free after a morning goose hunt Wed... I will be at Marinellis (12 & I-75) after 3 having lunch.... I welocome any other fellow duck guys to stop by....

I do what I think is best for this site.... if you feel otherwise we can have a beer and chat... I am always up for meeting new people from the site...


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## Shlwego (Sep 13, 2006)

Shlwego said:


> OK, so here's a question. Season is now closed. No hunting allowed, period. But what about going out today and picking up those birds? Many hunters "let their birds hang" for a day or two before cleaning them, so if these birds are on the ice, the meat should still be fine. If you go out today with no gun in your posession and run a dog for cripples or merely pick up dead or severly crippled birds that you dispatch by hand, are you in trouble if you get checked by a CO at the launch? You were not hunting, you were merely gathering. Is this prohibited? If not, is there a limit on how many you can bring in? I'm assuming the posession limit at least would still be in effect, right?
> 
> [EDIT: I posted this question on the Ask the Conservation Officer forum on the MDHA site. I'll post up his response here when I get it.]


Here's the response from the CO:

_"Yeah, it'd be a problem, you'd be in possession during the closed season. Also, under the definition of hunting (take, pursue, etc) you'd be "hunting"."_


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