# Tippy Dam report and access rights issue



## Steelhead Addict

Went to Tippy dam this weekend. it wasn't too crowded...could walk in almost anywhere and get a spot. Fishing was ok..but didn't seem to be peaked yet. They are still catching 4 year olds in the lake...so they are still coming.

Had a bit of a surprise this year. The state has privatized the cleaning station. I guess that Andy's has taken over the cleaning station. Its split in half. One half is for them to clean fish for 3$ or more the other half is for the public to clean their own fish for free. This seems somewhat harmless...other than they are taking up half the cleaning station and only 1 fish was cleaned in 12 hrs on the pay side. So it creates a bit of a backup at the station.

So here is the part that i was burned on. They called the DNR on us because another fisherman on the "public" side gave us their eggs. An enforcement officer asked us to leave because a "private party" has the rights to the WHOLE cleaning station. So in short, the private party can decide who can be at the cleaning station.

Things where civil between the 2 parties but actual license holder showed up and made a bit of a scene. In that tirade of f-bombs he stated (this is a paraphrase) if they didn't make enough money collecting eggs, they'd shut down the free side.

This whole thing with commercial dealers collecting eggs is starting to really get out of control. A buddy of my who is a charter captain was confronted this year for keeping skein from his own client's fish....after cleaning them in his own marina. 

This is not a DNR enforcement bashing thread....they were very cool about it and represented the DNR very professionally...but the whole thing didn't sit right with me...pay entry to access our public lands...but then have a private party decide who has access just seems wrong.


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## samsteel

Steelhead Addict said:


> So here is the part that i was burned on. They called the DNR on us because another fisherman on the "public" side gave us their eggs. An enforcement officer asked us to leave because a "private party" has the rights to the WHOLE cleaning station. So in short, the private party can decide who can be at the cleaning station.


yeah, I was there in the morning, I knew the guy cleaning fish for Andy's was gonna do something, he was eyeballing the guys hanging around the cleaning station looking for eggs. They charge people to clean fish, then throw all the eggs in buckets, so that they can ship them up north (to Huron Tackle Company I believe) load em with a bunch of preservatives, then sell them back to the public for a ridiculous amount of money. I don't understand about the c/o asking you to leave though, did you ask him why the private party has the rights to the entire station? Maybe he just wanted to clear things out after the guy dropped some F bombs?


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## wintrrun

I'll just come out and say it " the dnr needs to be taken out behind the woodshed and have there a***s paddled"
Our money pays for a fish cleaning station that gets sold off during the big "Salami Run" so we can pay someone to clean our fish and keep our eggs.
TFF!
Ya know I should approach them and see if I can privatize the parking lot as well. On top of the daily and yearly fees ya pay to get in you can pay me 10 bucks to "valet park" your vehicle.
Then I think I'll monopolize and put coin op locks on the outhouse doors.
Anyone else hear the carnival music playing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Steelhead Addict

samsteel said:


> I don't understand about the c/o asking you to leave though, did you ask him why the private party has the rights to the entire station? Maybe he just wanted to clear things out after the guy dropped some F bombs?


in short its NO LONGER a public cleaning station. Its controlled by a private party. They can say who has access within their licensing agreement with the state.

I know that majority of these eggs are being shipped out of state. this is because there isn't much of a market here in Michigan. Eggs are too easily available to the public..however, this is changing. it seems that sports-persons that use bait are really under assault in this state. ...new stream regs, need to have certified bait, and now privatizing of cleaning stations so bait dealers can monopolize access. I could see any use of bait or use of privately obtained bait could be eliminated!

We can only hope that people don't pay to have their fish cut and more importantly no one give/leave eggs in the trash. if its not economically viable...I doubt they will want to renew the license.


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## Mitch

Steelhead Addict said:


> An enforcement officer asked us to leave...


Any chance you know the name of the "CO" that asked you to leave?


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## dcc

And they wonder why the number of sportsmen and sportswomen are decreasing!


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## thousandcasts

I had the same exact issue on Thursday and cannot say that the exchange was civil in any way, shape or form. In fact, I was told by a DNR employee either get away from the cleaning station or I would be talking to a judge. Anyone who knows me, knows that I not only gave the guy from Andy's a tirade earful, but I didn't pull any punches in sharing exactly how I felt about the whole situation. It wasn't pretty. For now, that's all I'm going to say about this.

What I will say is this: 

*IF YOU ARE A LEGIT ANGLER AND YOU SPEND ONE SINGLE DIME AT ANDY'S, YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF. AT THIS POINT, ANDY'S SHOULD BE ON THE BOYCOTT LIST AND EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US NEEDS TO NOT, NOT, NOT BUY A SINGLE THING THERE. *


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## ausable_steelhead

**** andy's, they support snaggers and don't care how a dude fishes, as long as they spend money at that store. As far as getting loose eggs, not that hard-either tag a couple loosies or just stroll the banks and ask the rippers/part timers for their eggs, it usually isn't to hard to get some.


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## friZZleFry419

So , If ya dont pay 3 dollars you cant clean your fish at tippy now ? Is there a person at the station 24/7 ? And when you pay DO THEY CLEAN YOUR FISH!!?? sounds fishy to me :idea:


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## LuckyChucky

all citys should have free fish cleaning stations,it should be a gift to anglers who go to their town,spend money in their resteraunts,sleep in their motels.Sportsmen need to be more appreciated and not treated as suckers.No shop should act that way,nor should the DNR support it.


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## wintrrun

It's a shame that our DNR look out for our best interests in this manner.
What's next? 
Are they gonna sell off sections of river so that ya have to pay to play.
Don't seem that far fetched to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## slamthefish

Thanks for the heads up on this issue with Andy's. I am coming up this week with several newbies to the sport and we will not spend a dime in that shop with ridiculous attitude.

An enforcement officer asked us to leave because a "private party" has the rights to the WHOLE cleaning station. So in short, the private party can decide who can be at the cleaning station.


The above quote really bothers me. Some one needs to explain this to me a little clearer. How is it that a local shop can get dibs on a State of Michigan owned piece of property. I am pretty sure i and ALL of YOU sportsman are also part owners of that station and NOT Andy's. Another question is this....Who is this "enforcement" officer? In the real world of legal litigation there should be a conservation officer , State trooper, and perhaps a local Sheriff deputy that has the actual "authority" to enforce this. Thousand Cats-can you please give us a clearer picture of your conversation and views? Thanks you.


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## thousandcasts

> Thousand Casts-can you please give us a clearer picture of your conversation and views? Thanks you.


Respectfully, I'm not going to say much about what took place until I've finished making some more phone calls and getting as much information as I can. 

Make no mistake, I'm not finished with this by a long shot and they treated the WRONG person like a b****. However, that's all I'm going to say for now.


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## wintrrun

I can sum it up for ya slam.
It's all about the almighty dollar.
Although them opening up an open forum for gear restrictions might seem like they were doing us a favor. Don't think for one minute we actually have a say.
Bureaucrats and the lobbyists are who run the Dnr. Get used to it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## earl

They privatized the fish cleaning station at Tippy? WHO DO WE CONTACT ABOUT THIS? Is this a trolling thread?


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## Flyfisher

One can only assume that Andy's is leasing the cleaning station from the state? Hopefully they (Andy's) lose money on the deal. Unfortunate that their person there is seemingly being unreasonable. And even worse that a CO has to waste their time to come out and enforce the complaints from Andy's employees. If indeed there is a lease, was this up for public bid and comment? Something smells a little fishy, pun intended.

With this in mind, at what point will the state start to lease out parcels of riverfront land and public access sites so that non-government entities can start charging access fees to prime stretches of public water? Imagine if the state leased out the Pine Street and Thornapple access sites on the Muskegon River? Or what about the Tippy Dam access site(s). Granted, the state charges access fees to some of these areas, but imagine if a private company was able to "monopolize" these areas? Given the Andy's scenario and the huge budget issues the state is experiencing, I am surprised that this hasn't happened yet.


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## thousandcasts

earl said:


> They privatized the fish cleaning station at Tippy? WHO DO WE CONTACT ABOUT THIS? Is this a trolling thread?


No, this is not a trolling thread. I was literally told by a DNR employee with a badge and a gun that if I did not remove myself and my egg bucket from the cleaning station, I would be talking to a judge. In fact, I was checked for my ID, a fishing license, parking permit and generally, in my opinion, given the harrassment treatment. Also, I was told that if I didn't have an egg collection permit, I was breaking the law by standing at the cleaning station--which I already know is a BS statement. 

Now, I do not know if this was a CO or the park ranger...hence, I do not know who to be pissed at. Andy's is a given since the whole thing started out as an argument between myself and the guy running the cleaning station...and he was the one who started it by telling me to take my bucket and get the hell out of there. To which, I did not respond kindly or quietly to that. The DNR person with the badge and gun was brought in later. Again, I don't know if it was a CO or the ranger. I asked specifically for two CO's that handle the area (Steve and Carla) and I was told, "it's their off day." He did not even ask what was going on or anything like that. First thing he does is go talk to the guy from Andy's and then comes over to me demanding to see my ID and all that. 

I'm not going to make a generalized statement about this and that because it wouldn't be fair to the DNR if it was one employee on a power trip who was involved and was in the wrong. My exact feelings and the fact that I was beyond livid were made crystal clear to the two people involved (Andy's and the DNR person) and that's where I intend to keep it (other than saying what I already have here) until I have all the facts about this situation and how I was treated.


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## dcc

LuckyChucky said:


> all citys should have free fish cleaning stations,it should be a gift to anglers who go to their town,spend money in their resteraunts,sleep in their motels.Sportsmen need to be more appreciated and not treated as suckers.No shop should act that way,nor should the DNR support it.


 agree 100%


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## Whit1

earl said:


> They privatized the fish cleaning station at Tippy? WHO DO WE CONTACT ABOUT THIS? Is this a trolling thread?


In any order you may choose, but I suggest contacting all of the below
MDNR Fisheries Division and Director Humphries
The NRC
Your state legislators both representative and senator.]

As someone mentioned the bait fishing guys and gals are seeing more and more restrictions on their choice to use bait in order to catch fish. Yes, some hell needs to be raised, but going off 1/2 cocked in some angry outburst is the very last and least effective thing to do.


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## Vex

I was up there this weekend also. Couldn't believe that the state would do something like that to the cleaning station.. well I guess I can, Guess they will do anything for a buck$$$. When I was packing up on sat. night the dnr was at the station and there was a big crowd of people at the station. I know they didn't all have fish to clean, when I heard a few F--bombs I decided to stear clear of the crowd..

So answer me this if you have this dude clean your fish for $3 or what ever is this to mean that he and only him gets to keep the eggs? 

Oh by the way, I did manage to land a few fish on my favorite fly pattern. All went right back.


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## thousandcasts

Vex said:


> So answer me this if you have this dude clean your fish for $3 or what ever is this to mean that he and only him gets to keep the eggs?
> 
> .


That's what the Andy's guys are telling people, but you can keep your eggs or give them to anyone you choose and if Andy's tells you that you can't keep your eggs, I'd get them for theft. Andy's does not have that kind of exclusivity from what I understand. 

The bottom line is this...stay clear of that side of the cleaning station. Clean your own fish. Don't give Andy's a single penny.


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## johnnie555

Too bad the DNR doesnt allow us to throw the carcases in the river (like its "encouraged" to do in ALASKA!!) then we'd have no use for the cleaning station! Just fillet em out right on the river bank and into the drink they'd go, food for the fishes....


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## slamthefish

Upon reading more posts and digesting this internaly a bit more (and without any more info regarding this State of Michigan "sublease" of the "State" run operation, that by the way, is paid for by OUR license fee's) i have come to this conclusion.

1. I want to hear what Thousand Cats has in regards to more information from people that i assume he knows in the department of natural resources regarding this fish cleaning station.

2. All of you Michigan sportsmen need to watch this very carefully. As a number of other posters have indicated, the State is very low on money and we as "fee payers" (license buyers) are vulnerable to these behind the scenes deals for the State to make more money with new regulations. We may have a say in this matter and it will likely come down to higher license fee's which i am sure %90 of you agree we probably need to continue funding our ability to not only police the laws that the DNR sets according to (hopefully) our fine biologists and conservation officers but also our hatcheries, parks,etc. Is this the best way for our state to run access sites? I dont think so. As another poster wrote..."whats next? subleasing segments of our rivers??", "Paid no bait sections?". What nonsense.

3. After doing some basic research on Andy's, i have come to this conclusion. All smart business's look for a way to generate more revenue. Cleaning fish at $3.00 a pop is not going to do anything at a place like Tippy. Period. Anyone who fishes at Tippy in the months of September or October knows how to clean a salmon. I think what we really need to look at is this egg situtation. Why would someone be mad at Mr. Thousand Casts for for asking for some eggs? Seriously? Thousand Cats-i have read some of your posts in the past and i think what you have to say is pretty legit. Something is just not right about having an ARMED park officer threatening you about eggs. MY TAX dollars as well as YOUR hard earned tax dollars pay these people (and i am sure they are nice folks away from work, just doing whatthey are told) to CONFRONT good tax paying citizens of our state to not let folks ask for some salmon eggs. Not cool and frankly i do not want my employees giving sportsman a hard time because of some behind the scenes deal. I really have had a hard time digesting this.

4. What Whit said is very important, we need answers and the leaders of our DNR need to answer this.


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## slamthefish

Thousandcasts-sorry, i called you thousand cats-not intentional. meow.:lol:


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## toto

Don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but try this with next officer, whoever he/she is. Once they get in your face, ask them for thier signed oath of office. Trust me, they won't have it with them, and if they don't they are the ones now breaking the law. If they cannot supply you with this, they now have no authority over you. Trust me, it works, I've done it.


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## earl

at least according to this link:

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-31574_33058-96967--,00.html

nothing there to stop private collection efforts. As always nothing of value can be offered in exchange.


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## diztortion

[SIZE=-1]The operator of a fish cleaning station may exchange the service of cleaning salmon for the eggs in the salmons' carcasses *or* charge a fee for cleaning salmon.


[/SIZE]


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## Crazy Axe

Sorry, didn't read the whole post. Got a little fumed before I could get through it :rant:
But if the fish cleaning station is privatized, and you injure yourself on private property, don't you have the right to sue the property owner? And if they really own the fish cleaning station, that means THEY are taking care of it and up-keeping it, NOT the taxpayers, correct? Seems like those kind of things would make sense.


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## thousandcasts

slamthefish said:


> Upon reading more posts and digesting this internaly a bit more (and without any more info regarding this State of Michigan "sublease" of the "State" run operation, that by the way, is paid for by OUR license fee's) i have come to this conclusion.
> 
> 1. I want to hear what Thousand Cats has in regards to more information from people that i assume he knows in the department of natural resources regarding this fish cleaning station.
> 
> 2. All of you Michigan sportsmen need to watch this very carefully. As a number of other posters have indicated, the State is very low on money and we as "fee payers" (license buyers) are vulnerable to these behind the scenes deals for the State to make more money with new regulations. We may have a say in this matter and it will likely come down to higher license fee's which i am sure %90 of you agree we probably need to continue funding our ability to not only police the laws that the DNR sets according to (hopefully) our fine biologists and conservation officers but also our hatcheries, parks,etc. Is this the best way for our state to run access sites? I dont think so. As another poster wrote..."whats next? subleasing segments of our rivers??", "Paid no bait sections?". What nonsense.
> 
> 3. After doing some basic research on Andy's, i have come to this conclusion. All smart business's look for a way to generate more revenue. Cleaning fish at $3.00 a pop is not going to do anything at a place like Tippy. Period. Anyone who fishes at Tippy in the months of September or October knows how to clean a salmon. I think what we really need to look at is this egg situtation. Why would someone be mad at Mr. Thousand Casts for for asking for some eggs? Seriously? Thousand Cats-i have read some of your posts in the past and i think what you have to say is pretty legit. Something is just not right about having an ARMED park officer threatening you about eggs. MY TAX dollars as well as YOUR hard earned tax dollars pay these people (and i am sure they are nice folks away from work, just doing whatthey are told) to CONFRONT good tax paying citizens of our state to not let folks ask for some salmon eggs. Not cool and frankly i do not want my employees giving sportsman a hard time because of some behind the scenes deal. I really have had a hard time digesting this.
> 
> 4. What Whit said is very important, we need answers and the leaders of our DNR need to answer this.


I'll try to put this as best I can since I'm really walking a line here between going off on a rant vs. letting the voice of reason speak louder. When it comes to alot of things in life, there's the right way of doing things and then there's the Hutch way of doing things. Sometimes, the Hutch way might accidently end up being the right way, but more often than not my methods will end up being counter productive to the "good fight," so to speak. Look at my rants about killing everything on the PM and some of the shots I've taken at the higher ups in the DNR as evidence. When I get pissed, I want instant justice and I'm not genetically programmed to wait for methodical results. In the case of the PM gear regs, I wanted to piss off the fly guys who are pushing for the regs. While I might end up doing that, posting kill shots and urging people to stringer everything up on the PM is the Hutch way, not the right way. 

Since I don't have all the answers on this fish cleaning station deal, I'm really trying to express things in this thread the right way. I can tell you that I did, in fact, talk to someone in the DNR who matters, on the phone today. This individual is someone I trust and it was conveyed to me that what is going on is complete B.S. This person was also convinced that it wasn't a CO who came down, but a park ranger who was over stepping his bounds and that I was absolutely doing nothing wrong and I was well within my every legal right to be doing what I was doing. As I understand it, you, me, and anyone else has the right to not only put a bucket there to get eggs, but we can sit right there in a lawn chair right at the cleaning station and be well within our legal right to do so. This is even more of a reason to just simply boycott Andy's and not spend one penny there if you're a legit angler. 

Consider it a service...we'd actually be helping Andy's. I mean, if every legit angler stops buying stuff there, they'd have no reason to keep bothering with ordering this or that and making sure the shelves are stocked. If all they have to do is make sure they're stocked up on 40lb Spiderwire and Turks Ticklers, then just think how much easier we'll have made their life. They should probably thank us for that! 

As for the cleaning station thing. That is what I know right now--we're well within our rights to sit right there at the cleaning station and get as many eggs as one wants or needs.


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## Fishslayer5789

thousandcasts said:


> Also, I was told that if I didn't have an egg collection permit, I was breaking the law by standing at the cleaning station--which I already know is a BS statement.


I agree. That's ridiculous. I can think of a number of times when I needed eggs on short notice and went to the cleaning station in Frankfort to pick up some. What's the difference? Same exact issue.


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## malidewd

I say a bunch of us get together, go hammer some hens, go clean our fish at the cleaning station, and dangle our fresh eggs in thier face right before we drop them in our buckets.

or

We just go jump the guy and take his spawn that he stole anyway. Kind of like the robin hood of eggs. We could make a whole movie about it. It could be called, *Thousandcasts- The Prince of Skien*.:lol:

I have the script running in my head already.


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## wintrrun

malidewd said:


> I say a bunch of us get together, go hammer some hens, go clean our fish at the cleaning station, and dangle our fresh eggs in thier face right before we drop them in our buckets.
> 
> or
> 
> We just go jump the guy and take his spawn that he stole anyway. Kind of like the robin hood of eggs. We could make a whole movie about it. It could be called, *Thousandcasts- The Prince of Skien*.:lol:
> 
> I have the script running in my head already.



RotflmaOooooooo.

Wasn't jenna jameson cast as the maid marion?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thousandcasts

wintrrun said:


> RotflmaOooooooo.
> 
> Wasn't jenna jameson cast as the maid marion?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, I want Charlize Theron as Maid Marion--with plenty of sex scenes...and I get to play myself. Hutch...starring as...Hutch. :lol:


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## Flyfisher

I find it interesting that in one of the posts, the guy from Andy's said that he was going to close down the "free" side if they don't get enough eggs. The DNR link posted above mentions the following:



DNR said:


> As a condition of his or her permit, a permit holder whose fish cleaning station is located on state owned land shall provide free access to the fish cleaning station facilities to anglers who wish to use the facilities to clean their own salmon catch. To apply for one of these permits contact a Fisheries Biologist at the nearest DNR office.





Crazy Axe said:


> But if the fish cleaning station is privatized, and you injure yourself on private property, don't you have the right to sue the property owner? And if they really own the fish cleaning station, that means THEY are taking care of it and up-keeping it, NOT the taxpayers, correct? Seems like those kind of things would make sense.


Andy's is simply "managing" the site under a permit, they do NOT own the fish cleaning station, the state owns the site. From what I understand, the permit holder (i.e. Andy's) provides upkeep of the station in exchange for any eggs it can collect and/or any income from cleaning fish themselves. 

Needless to say, it would appear that there has been a little bullying going on from the representative of Andy's as well as some possible overstepping of bounds by the law enforcement officer that showed up. Hopefully Thousandcasts can make contact with the appropriate DNRE officials so that they are made aware of the abuse of the permit that is occurring.

Like some people have already commented, it does not appear to be illegal whatsoever to give/receive eggs as long nothing of tangible value is exchanged.


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## mjmmusser

Flyfisher said:


> Like some people have already commented, it does not appear to be illegal whatsoever to give/receive eggs as long nothing of tangible value is exchanged.


I'm glad I didn't ask for a piece of that hot 'n' ready pizza in return for the spawn I gave to the guys who were desperately searching for spawn in Andy's parking lot. Coulda got into some deep doo-doo.:lol::yikes:

And no, I don't give them business inside. I think it's BS with the way that they promote the Turk's Tickler there. Now they won't get my business at the fish cleaning station either. It's all Pappy's for me from now on or I'll just bring my fillet knife.


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## Toga

Sux you were treated like a giant turd TC. Give em [email protected]!! :evil: It sound like the CO you encountered over stepped his bounds just a tad. Hopefully you get a word in with the powers to be at the local DNR office and if possible Lansing. 

It is a shame another resource has been sold out to to a private party to profit from. Not going to trash talk about Andys. I along with many others had a negative experience at their shop. Needless to say I spend my money elsewhere when I come to town. I highly encourage others to do the same. There are better tackle shops in the area. 

For those that don't mind driving to the other side of the river there is a cleaning station at Fishermans headquarters. I have never been charged to use it and have been treated well by their staff.


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## Whit1

thousandcasts said:


> No, I want Charlize Theron as Maid Marion--with plenty of sex scenes...and I get to play myself. Hutch...starring as...*Hutch*. :lol:


 
That would be Hutchhood. 

By the way your incident at the fish cleaning station would be a perfect time for a cell phone video.


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## Jones

I find it ironic that everyone screams bloody murder when a commercial business oversteps their bounds with respect to the "public good" only when it directly affects them. Don't get me wrong, I think its total BS that this is the way our public resources are managed nowadays, and will never buy a single thing from Andy's, but lets get back to the point.

How is this situation any different than hundreds of people guiding on our rivers? It's the commercialization of a public resource, with certain people benefiting while others get the shaft. It's been happening for years, and this is absolutely no different. 

What isn't being said is why there is such a demand for salmon eggs. EVERYONE knows that no matter how much you fish, there is absolutely no way you could go through more than 5 salmon (in terms of loose eggs) per year. I think the problem here is that certain individuals (and certain individuals who run fishing businesses) are no longer able to access the amount of eggs they need to run their daily chum routine on the rivers, which itself, is against the law, and now are a little bit salty about it. Heaven forbid the average Joe fisherman has a level playing field on which to compete.


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## big_phish

TC- Hope you get some resolution to this issue. As a bait fisherman, I would be p'off too.


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## thousandcasts

Jones said:


> I find it ironic that everyone screams bloody murder when a commercial business oversteps their bounds with respect to the "public good" only when it directly affects them. Don't get me wrong, I think its total BS that this is the way our public resources are managed nowadays, and will never buy a single thing from Andy's, but lets get back to the point.
> 
> How is this situation any different than hundreds of people guiding on our rivers? It's the commercialization of a public resource, with certain people benefiting while others get the shaft. It's been happening for years, and this is absolutely no different.
> 
> What isn't being said is why there is such a demand for salmon eggs. EVERYONE knows that no matter how much you fish, there is absolutely no way you could go through more than 5 salmon (in terms of loose eggs) per year. I think the problem here is that certain individuals (and certain individuals who run fishing businesses) are no longer able to access the amount of eggs they need to run their daily chum routine on the rivers, which itself, is against the law, and now are a little bit salty about it. Heaven forbid the average Joe fisherman has a level playing field on which to compete.


The average Joe fisherman is getting run out of, and told he can't be at, a public access site that he pays for via parking permits and license money. If the average Joe doesn't want to go chasing fish on gravel and just wants to get some eggs for his steelhead fishing, he's basically being told to get the hell out of an area where he's well within his legal rights to be. Top that off with a DNR employee over stepping his bounds and a business abusing their fish cleaning permit and THAT'S THE PROBLEM HERE. 

So far, your five posts haven't impressed me much--especially when one of them was a shot at me in a previous thread about my economic situation, so why would I expect you to understand that this is an access issue for the average Joe and not a egg issue at this point?


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## Flyfisher

Jones said:


> I find it ironic that everyone screams bloody murder when a commercial business oversteps their bounds with respect to the "public good" only when it directly affects them. Don't get me wrong, I think its total BS that this is the way our public resources are managed nowadays, and will never buy a single thing from Andy's, but lets get back to the point.
> 
> How is this situation any different than hundreds of people guiding on our rivers? It's the commercialization of a public resource, with certain people benefiting while others get the shaft. It's been happening for years, and this is absolutely no different.
> 
> What isn't being said is why there is such a demand for salmon eggs. EVERYONE knows that no matter how much you fish, there is absolutely no way you could go through more than 5 salmon (in terms of loose eggs) per year. I think the problem here is that certain individuals (and certain individuals who run fishing businesses) are no longer able to access the amount of eggs they need to run their daily chum routine on the rivers, which itself, is against the law, and now are a little bit salty about it. Heaven forbid the average Joe fisherman has a level playing field on which to compete.


Nice threadjack and anti-chumming blog! Isn't the anonymity of the interwebz great? All five posts you have made here are off-handed personal attacks. While I see the point you are trying to make, to my knowledge, the original poster is a recreational fisherman that experienced the same issue. I'd be happy with loose eggs from one hen and after trying several places on Saturday morning almost ended up at Tippy. Its a good thing that I didn't bother going there afterall.


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## foxriver6

toto said:


> Don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but try this with next officer, whoever he/she is. Once they get in your face, ask them for thier signed oath of office. Trust me, they won't have it with them, and if they don't they are the ones now breaking the law. If they cannot supply you with this, they now have no authority over you. Trust me, it works, I've done it.


There is absolutely no truth to this. If there is, cite your reference:
www.michiganlegislature.org


----------



## Jones

If you read above, an average Joe can still go to the fish cleaning station and clean his fish, free of charge, and do whatever he wants with the eggs. 

Second, this is a FISH CLEANING station by definition, its not an egg dispenser where the public waits for free handouts... otherwise I'm sure the DNR would have called it so a long time ago. It exists for one reason, for people to clean fish.

Third, it IS an egg issue. The demand for eggs is obviously the main factor driving this, from both yours and Andy's points of view. 

Lastly, in regards to my previous post, I was being genuine. I miss the days where i was able to fish everyday. Had some great times in some wonderful places that I'm not able to make it to very often these days.


----------



## Jones

If you read above, an average Joe can still go to the fish cleaning station and clean his fish, free of charge, and do whatever he wants with the eggs. 

Second, this is a FISH CLEANING station by definition, its not an egg dispenser where the public waits for free handouts... otherwise I'm sure the DNR would have called it so a long time ago. It exists for one reason, for people to clean fish.

Third, it IS an egg issue. The demand for eggs is obviously the main factor driving this, from both yours and Andy's points of view. 

Lastly, in regards to my previous post, I was being genuine. I miss the days where i was able to fish everyday. Had some great times in some wonderful places that I'm not able to make it to very often these days.


----------



## malidewd

Jones said:


> I find it ironic that everyone screams bloody murder when a commercial business oversteps their bounds with respect to the "public good" only when it directly affects them. Don't get me wrong, I think its total BS that this is the way our public resources are managed nowadays, and will never buy a single thing from Andy's, but lets get back to the point.
> 
> How is this situation any different than hundreds of people guiding on our rivers? It's the commercialization of a public resource, with certain people benefiting while others get the shaft. It's been happening for years, and this is absolutely no different.
> 
> What isn't being said is why there is such a demand for salmon eggs. EVERYONE knows that no matter how much you fish, there is absolutely no way you could go through more than 5 salmon (in terms of loose eggs) per year. I think the problem here is that certain individuals (and certain individuals who run fishing businesses) are no longer able to access the amount of eggs they need to run their daily chum routine on the rivers, which itself, is against the law, and now are a little bit salty about it. Heaven forbid the average Joe fisherman has a level playing field on which to compete.


He must work for Andy's.

And I don't see how guides benefit more than anyone else.

P.S. I am writing up the storyline for our movie. Gimme a couple days and i'll post it.


----------



## diztortion

malidewd said:


> P.S. I am writing up the storyline for our movie. Gimme a couple days and i'll post it.


We expect nothing less than Oscar material.


----------



## MSUICEMAN

can the extras fishing the river be the ladies from the women in waders calendars?


----------



## diztortion

MSUICEMAN said:


> can the extras fishing the river be the ladies from the women in waders calendars?


Yes. However in the spirit of the movie they hafta be using gut.


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## Flyfisher

Jones said:


> If you read above, an average Joe can still go to the fish cleaning station and clean his fish, free of charge, and *do whatever he wants with the eggs. *


Legally yes, but if I go up and ask him for a pint of his eggs, its sounds like the guy from Andy's would call law enforcement. As an average Joe that likes to get a pint or maybe quart of eggs every fall to tie spawn sacks, it would appear that I would be in the wrong to ask someone cleaning their fish if they wanted them or not. Tippy seems to get a lot of people from out of state that could care less about keeping their eggs and would usually discard them with the carcass in which case Andy's, per their permit, would be entitled to said eggs. But now someone can't ask for those eggs before they get discarded?


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## Flyfisher

thousandcasts said:


> Remember--I want Charlize Theron playing Maid Marion. Otherwise, the movie ain't gettin' done. "Show me the honey!"


I thought you knew some hot chick up in Brethren?


----------



## thousandcasts

> But now someone can't ask for those eggs before they get discarded?


After making some calls, hell yes--you're allowed to do that. You have as much right to be at that cleaning station as Andy's does. The problem is that you got some back door BS going on and guys are wrongfully getting ran out of their and told that they can't be standing there. 

This is complete B.S. and the person I talked to was not happy in the least bit that this is going on and is going to get this taken care of. In addition, this person said that any one of us not only has the right to put a bucket there, but to pull out a lawn chair and sit right there at the cleaning station if we want to. 

As I understand it, and the exact details are certainly subject to correction, the cleaning station thing is now leased to the same Canadian company that removes the salmon carcasses from the wier. How Andy's got involved is via the Canadian company. They're allowed to clean fish and charge, but nothing gives them exclusive rights to the entire cleaning station, the eggs, etc nor can they exclude you and I and anyone else from being there asking for eggs. If you want to put a bucket on the "free side", you can do that. Andy's is bullying people because those eggs are big money. The Canadian company turns around and sells them as caviar and stuff like that. I talked to a lot of people on the river and some these guys were pissed because they took their fish to have Andy's clean them, but they wanted to keep their eggs. Andy's told them allegedly, "nope, once we cut 'em, we keep the eggs." So, in effect if this is true, they charging not only by $$$, but by misleading people that they can't keep their own eggs. In addition, they've got some DNR employee doing the bully work and running guys out of there who are well within their rights to be there and get a few eggs if they want.


----------



## Flyfisher

thousandcasts said:


> Andy's told them allegedly, "nope, once we cut 'em, we keep the eggs." So, in effect if this is true, they charging not only by $$$, but by misleading people that they can't keep their own eggs.


That's interesting because the permit agreement allows for charging for the fish cleaning services and/cleaning fish in exchange for eggs. It doesn't say anything about the permit holder keeping the eggs. I sure hope the proper authorities get to the bottom of this and revoke the permit.


----------



## mjmmusser

Flyfisher said:


> That's interesting because the permit agreement allows for charging for the fish cleaning services *or* cleaning fish in exchange for eggs. It doesn't say anything about the permit holder keeping the eggs. I sure hope the proper authorities get to the bottom of this and revoke the permit.


Corrected it for ya.



DNR PAGE said:


> A permit holder shall accept from sport fishers all salmon carcasses that are brought to the station and shall hold and dispose of them and their offal only in a manner approved by the local health department.


Someone should bring one of those half rotten ones in. You know the kind that you can push your finger into the meat or parts are falling off them while you try to get the things off your line. They can't refuse your carcass.


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## earl

Got to talk to "Al" at Orchard Beach State Park. He's defending this lease as something they bid out or did a year ago on a trial basis. From discussion he's anti people soliciting eggs but understands that steelhead fisherman might need a few. He's seemed convinced that there are a number of people soliciting eggs at tippy and selling them illegally. He made comment about a lot of eggs being like a bucket or even half a bucket, he seemed genuinely surprised when I said I go through nearly a gallon of eggs a year. As near as I can determine from the conversation his goals were to reduce the smell of the dumpster and cut down on these "illegal sales".

He seemed uncertain if the current awarded bidder was a licensed wholesale dealer (I'm not a lawyer, but my read would be that they would need to be), or if their license was displayed (which I believe that it is supposed to be). He was more concerned about the awardee being insured (but did not explain for what but I'd guess workers comp). Licensed wholesaler dealer is supposed to record a transaction sales form for every buy. Struggling to believe that might be happening.

Buddy of mine went last night, and described it as tense; but he got some eggs. Though he did describe an ugly exchange when he was leaving.


----------



## DNRSgtHack

I am the DNRE Conservation Officer that dealt with this situation last Saturday. I did not tell anyone that Andy's controlled anything other than the rights to solicit fish eggs and clean fish at the fish station for pay. The permit allows Andy's to practice commercial activity at the site. It does not allow for controlling the activity at the property. I am surprised that the originator of this thread has said otherwise. I clearly indicated to the group of gentlemen that had solicited eggs from an individual on the public side of the cleaning station that it was my belief they should solicit eggs outside of the immediate area of the cleaning station. As I interpret the use permit, Andy's would not have the authority to close down the station. They could, however, close their side of the station. I will work with supervision to more clearly sign the location so that it is clear that there is still public access to the cleaning station and that those who desire to clean their own fish can do so without worry of being accosted. Until a decision is made by DNRE with respect to exclusivity rights, any attempt to solicit eggs, or any other items should take place outside of the location as described in the permit. 

Please be patient, as we attempt to work out the details. The questions and concerns described in this thread appear to me to be very pertinent and legitimate. I will be working with other DNRE Divisions in attempt to address them.

Sgt. Kevin Hackworth, Area 2 Supervisor, District 4.


----------



## earl

Thanks for wading in here Kevin.


----------



## mjmmusser

So, SGT Hackworth, since I can't find rule for soliciting eggs on public property, could you either post them or supply a link to the MCL/ordinance. Is there anything posted that states no solicitation?

I ask because if I am low, I'll beg for a few off people who are cleaning fish. If I am in the wrong, I'll stop asking at fish cleaning stations and start begging along the river or private boat launches.

By the way, I had an issue with Andy's last weekend where I asked for my spawn back and he just gutted it over a bucket full of eggs. So I waited for him to get me my spawn back close to 10 minutes. My buddy got upset and decided to just grab some skein out of the bucket so we could get back and take a nap.


----------



## johnnie555

But now someone can't ask for those eggs before they get discarded?[/QUOTE]

Most certainly can, i"ts called freedom of speach" and you have every right to ask.. Just whether or not they wanna give them to you is another story..


----------



## johnnie555

Until a decision is made by DNRE with respect to exclusivity rights said:


> They can tell you this, but you have every right under the sun to ask someone if they want their eggs or not, and if you get harassed, then you have a harassment complaint.. Its called "freedom of speach", they cannot control, nor dictate what conversations you have within this vicinity or ANY vicinity for that matter!


----------



## The Fillet Show

Sounds like it's getting crazy up there and I hope the details get figured out soon. I'm surprised that no one has been in a physical altercation yet. Eventually the guy from Andy's is going to run his mouth to the wrong person and it will get ugly. I'm glad it hasn't happened, just hope DNR steps in and figures out a better way to do this, or just makes it a full public cleaning station instead of selling out half of it.


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## Whit1

If anyone who fishes Tippy Dam does want their fish cleaned they can take them to a guy named Winston. He does it in the evenings from his former gas station/sporting goods place in Brethren. It is located in town, on the west side of High Bridge Rd. where Coates Highway (the road leading east and west to and from the road to the dam). It is the small stone building with the peaked entry.

I believe he charges $3 per fish and you do what you want with the eggs. He's a good guy. Tell him that Milt from the Bluffs sent you.


----------



## Steelmon

This situation is a tragedy waiting to happen. I went salmon fishing with my sisters X husband, not long after we both returned from Vietnam. He was a Recon Marine that actually got off on killing; a true head case. We were snagging like everyone else. Everytime we caught a hen, there was a group of guys that asked us if they could have it. We didn't know any better, so we gave them our hens. When we left and went to the parking lot, we saw those guys selling the eggs from our hens to a guy. We didn't know that you could sell the eggs. He was mad as Hell. He reached into the truck, got his shotgun, loaded it, and started walking across the parking lot. It was all I could do to stop him. Luckily, it was dark and nobody saw us. I think it's a good idea to straighten out messes like this post haste.


----------



## JimP

We just got back from deer camp late last night,
(No deer moving yet through our little bow area, ferns waist high still)
catching up on the threads, this one's a doozy.
I was over at the dam last Friday morning before meeting Steve (Thousandcasts) and posted a thread about over a hundred people there on the river...no fish to speak of.
I also checked the station for eggs and had no problem chatting with the cutter about eggs...although he had none coming in...only cleaned one mushy male. Must have been a different cleaning guy, he showed me where there was a bucket for unwanted eggs on the free side.

Pained me to walk the shore, grass, parking lot and stairs seeing all the pounds of loose, dried up and squished eggs dripped in trails everywhere.
Guess I'll drive over in a little while and see what's new...I still need eggs too.


----------



## DNRSgtHack

Gentlemen, 

I visited the cleaning station at Tippy and spoke with the attendant after contacting several State Park and Law Division administrators. The official word from management is that the permit simply allows Andy's to practice commercial activity at the cleaning site. Any and all exercise of control related to activities at the site remains the exclusive privilege of the DNRE. I clearly explained to the attendant that any interaction with the public utilizing the public side of the station must be positive. Swearing, bullying, or attempts at intimidation will not be tolerated from either side. I also removed all paper signs placed by Andy's except the "Do not place trash in barrels" sign to help minimize the confusion related to the public side being fully accessible to the public.

To be clear..if you want to go to the cleaning station and ask for eggs you have every right to. Please be tactful and civil when dealing with any other person at the site attempting to do the same. Officers will be taking whatever steps are necessary to ensure the site is calm, safe and open to all. 

I have been told that the permit was a limited trial made in attempt to help with the costs of maintaining a clean, sanitary cleaning station. 

I hope this helps. Officers will be visiting the station on a regular basis throughout the fish run. Have fun, be safe and feel free to contact our Report All Poaching Hotline at (800) 292-7800 to turn in persons using illegal gear, keeping snagged fish or who are openly attempting to snag.

Sgt. Kevin Hackworth
Area 4-2 Supervisor


----------



## earl

Thanks for all your help Kevin.


----------



## Flyfisher

DNRSgtHack said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> I visited the cleaning station at Tippy and spoke with the attendant after contacting several State Park and Law Division administrators. The official word from management is that the permit simply allows Andy's to practice commercial activity at the cleaning site. Any and all exercise of control related to activities at the site remains the exclusive privilege of the DNRE. I clearly explained to the attendant that any interaction with the public utilizing the public side of the station must be positive. Swearing, bullying, or attempts at intimidation will not be tolerated from either side. I also removed all paper signs placed by Andy's except the "Do not place trash in barrels" sign to help minimize the confusion related to the public side being fully accessible to the public.
> 
> To be clear..if you want to go to the cleaning station and ask for eggs you have every right to. Please be tactful and civil when dealing with any other person at the site attempting to do the same. Officers will be taking whatever steps are necessary to ensure the site is calm, safe and open to all.
> 
> I have been told that the permit was a limited trial made in attempt to help with the costs of maintaining a clean, sanitary cleaning station.
> 
> I hope this helps. Officers will be visiting the station on a regular basis throughout the fish run. Have fun, be safe and feel free to contact our Report All Poaching Hotline at (800) 292-7800 to turn in persons using illegal gear, keeping snagged fish or who are openly attempting to snag.
> 
> Sgt. Kevin Hackworth
> Area 4-2 Supervisor


Thank you for your timely reply.


----------



## TSS Caddis

Sweet. Thanks.

And to think we actually made it through this crisis without Hutch going off the deep end


----------



## Fishndude

Thanks, Sgt, Hackworth. 

Breck Hudson


----------



## thousandcasts

DNRSgtHack said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> I visited the cleaning station at Tippy and spoke with the attendant after contacting several State Park and Law Division administrators. The official word from management is that the permit simply allows Andy's to practice commercial activity at the cleaning site. Any and all exercise of control related to activities at the site remains the exclusive privilege of the DNRE. I clearly explained to the attendant that any interaction with the public utilizing the public side of the station must be positive. Swearing, bullying, or attempts at intimidation will not be tolerated from either side. I also removed all paper signs placed by Andy's except the "Do not place trash in barrels" sign to help minimize the confusion related to the public side being fully accessible to the public.
> 
> To be clear..if you want to go to the cleaning station and ask for eggs you have every right to. Please be tactful and civil when dealing with any other person at the site attempting to do the same. Officers will be taking whatever steps are necessary to ensure the site is calm, safe and open to all.
> 
> I have been told that the permit was a limited trial made in attempt to help with the costs of maintaining a clean, sanitary cleaning station.
> 
> I hope this helps. Officers will be visiting the station on a regular basis throughout the fish run. Have fun, be safe and feel free to contact our Report All Poaching Hotline at (800) 292-7800 to turn in persons using illegal gear, keeping snagged fish or who are openly attempting to snag.
> 
> Sgt. Kevin Hackworth
> Area 4-2 Supervisor


Thank you very much for all your help in this matter. My appreciation goes out to you and anyone else who was involved in clarifying this matter. It's not the anglers vs. the anglers that were causing a stir, it was point blank Andy's and an over zealous park ranger who were running everyday anglers out of there. 

Thanks again!!! 

PS--what kind of cost are we dealing with to maintain that cleaning station during salmon season? I'm sure myself and a lot of other guys would be willing to kick in some coin to make sure that Andy's isn't part of the equation next year.


----------



## wintrrun

Don't worry about andy's. I am in the planning to take over the whole deal.
In addition to taking over the Salami skinning station I will be adding valet parking, coin op porta potties and a 4 star roach wagon.
There are plans for a seasonal gentlemans club and brothel for the diehard angler. Half the proceeds will be going to "Hutches Gals". A part non profit organization that cares for neglected Swedish Bikini Models and rehabilitates them thru gut slinging and heavy cranking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dr. Steelhead

Whit1 said:


> If anyone who fishes Tippy Dam does want their fish cleaned they can take them to a guy named Winston. He does it in the evenings from his former gas station/sporting goods place in Brethren. It is located in town, on the west side of High Bridge Rd. where Coates Highway (the road leading east and west to and from the road to the dam). It is the small stone building with the peaked entry.
> 
> I believe he charges $3 per fish and you do what you want with the eggs. He's a good guy. Tell him that Milt from the Bluffs sent you.


I think we may have used him in the past. Since we are going up this weekend I'll keep him in mind.


----------



## thousandcasts

wintrrun said:


> Don't worry about andy's. I am in the planning to take over the whole deal.
> In addition to taking over the Salami skinning station I will be adding valet parking, coin op porta potties and a 4 star roach wagon.
> There are plans for a seasonal gentlemans club and brothel for the diehard angler. Half the proceeds will be going to "Hutches Gals". A part non profit organization that cares for neglected Swedish Bikini Models and rehabilitates them thru gut slinging and heavy cranking.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Damn...that touched me so much that it actually brought a tear to my eye. God bless you, my friend.


----------



## gibsalmon

That was some good stuff there what with valet parking in all:lol::lol::lol: Let us all know how that business plan fairs.:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## foxfire69

Whit1 said:


> If anyone who fishes Tippy Dam does want their fish cleaned they can take them to a guy named Winston. He does it in the evenings from his former gas station/sporting goods place in Brethren. It is located in town, on the west side of High Bridge Rd. where Coates Highway (the road leading east and west to and from the road to the dam). It is the small stone building with the peaked entry.
> 
> I believe he charges $3 per fish and you do what you want with the eggs. He's a good guy. Tell him that Milt from the Bluffs sent you.


Whit, did his parents own and operate that sporting goods store years ago? I bump into him on the Big Man and last spring catching Bluegills on the Lake in Brethren! He's a good guy for sure!! I wish someone would buy the gas station-store and make sure they have gas and ice this year for Steelhead season! Last year had neither and I thought it was ironic that the building next door still has the sign painted on the building "Brethren Ice Co."!!


----------



## thousandcasts

gibsalmon said:


> That was some good stuff there what with valet parking in all:lol::lol::lol: Let us all know how that business plan fairs.:lol::lol::lol:


Reminds me of a joke one of my clients told me yesterday. Not sure I can remember it word for word, but it goes something like this: 

This British guy is anchored on the river with two women in the boat. He's fishing along when this other boat comes downstream and tries to go behind him. Well, the other boat gets stuck in the shallow stuff and can't move anywhere. He tries rocking the boat to get off the shallow bar. He didn't have any oars in the boat, so he says to the guy fishing:

"Hey friend...could you let me use those oars you've got there?" 

To which the guy fishing replies:

"Them ain't oars, mate--them's me wife and me mother in law!"


----------



## wintrrun

gibsalmon said:


> That was some good stuff there what with valet parking in all:lol::lol::lol: Let us all know how that business plan fairs.:lol::lol::lol:


You would probably be my best customer, gib. I'll put ya on the V.I.P list.
I am toying with paving a path from the parking lot to Suicide Bend so that the two hottie beer cart girls ( former hutches gals ) can get to the thirsty souls down river.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gibsalmon

That would be great, what an idea. I fish there sometimes, and a cold one dont sound too bad either!!!:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Steelhead Addict

Sgt. Hackworth, 


Thanks for clarifying the situation. Your participation here was of great value.


----------



## trapperray

I hunt and fish in the brethern area and had my fair share of additude from the andy's crew,The only one there that I deem decent is Turk,his bro G. is another story,I went to the shop to see if I could get a copy of a pic my good friend and his father took together.By the way my friend has passed away at this time and his dad wanted a copy of this pic,it was the only one taken by a polaroid camera,so I go in there and Gordy is working and I ask him if I could borrow the pic so I could get a copy and I would bring the pic back.He threw a fit about having to get the pic out of the frame,I told him that I would do it and return the pic as it was.He declined and started ranting about me being a ass for even asking and an argument ensued and I left before I got me a guided tour of the county jail house.needless to say I do not go there for anything and recommend the same for the rest of the general public.Trapper Ray


----------



## JimP

Stopped by all the launches including Tippy around 1:00-2:00pm.
Nary a fish according to a few boaters I spoke with, except one boat way down low had a few steelies...(Getting to be that time?)
Water still way low everywhere, leaves beginning to be a problem on cranks.
Plenty of boats on the river, only 3 in Manistee Lake around 3:00.
Struck out on maybe getting eggs at the cleaning station in Manistee...It's closed down. 

Chatted with the cleaner at Tippy, same fella that was there last Friday...only did a couple fish all day...mushy males again.
Congenial enough, didn't bring up the egg subject with him other than it's slim pickins.
The night shift does better as the "anglers" change tackle. 

All signs except the trash sign were down as Sgt. Hackworth says.
Thank you Sir for the timely resolution and clarification of the matter.


----------



## Whit1

DNRSgtHack said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> I visited the cleaning station at Tippy and spoke with the attendant after contacting several State Park and Law Division administrators. The official word from management is that the permit simply allows Andy's to practice commercial activity at the cleaning site. Any and all exercise of control related to activities at the site remains the exclusive privilege of the DNRE. I clearly explained to the attendant that any interaction with the public utilizing the public side of the station must be positive. Swearing, bullying, or attempts at intimidation will not be tolerated from either side. I also removed all paper signs placed by Andy's except the "Do not place trash in barrels" sign to help minimize the confusion related to the public side being fully accessible to the public.
> 
> To be clear..if you want to go to the cleaning station and ask for eggs you have every right to. Please be tactful and civil when dealing with any other person at the site attempting to do the same. Officers will be taking whatever steps are necessary to ensure the site is calm, safe and open to all.
> 
> I have been told that the permit was a limited trial made in attempt to help with the costs of maintaining a clean, sanitary cleaning station.
> 
> I hope this helps. Officers will be visiting the station on a regular basis throughout the fish run. Have fun, be safe and feel free to contact our Report All Poaching Hotline at (800) 292-7800 to turn in persons using illegal gear, keeping snagged fish or who are openly attempting to snag.
> 
> Sgt. Kevin Hackworth
> Area 4-2 Supervisor


 
Thanks to ton for your input your timely response in this matter.


----------



## Whit1

foxfire69 said:


> Whit, did his parents own and operate that sporting goods store years ago? I bump into him on the Big Man and last spring catching Bluegills on the Lake in Brethren! He's a good guy for sure!! I wish someone would buy the gas station-store and make sure they have gas and ice this year for Steelhead season! Last year had neither and I thought it was ironic that the building next door still has the sign painted on the building "Brethren Ice Co."!!


 
Winston owned the station although his dad may have before him. He is indeed a good guy. If you stop in to see him mention my name and Arcadia Bluffs, but don't believe any bad stuff he says about me......:lol:


----------



## thousandcasts

If we sold beer AND had a brothel on site, we could single handely wipe out snagging in one season. I know this for fact and have personally seen it action. 

Now, going back several years ago when I was into the whole flies on gravel thing, I had quite a little operation going at the campground I'd stay at. My friends and I would rent a cabin and stay for two weeks up there and when you're a regular, word gets out about certain things. 

You always had your guys that the only reason they came up north was to consume as much alcohol and weed as the human body will allow without being considered clinically dead and to have sex with ANY woman that wasn't their wife. I don't even think these guys knew where the river was or even gave a hoot because their rods never moved from their camp sites. 

Anyway, I'd stringer up plenty of fish and I had a 124qt cooler full of gallon zip locs with filets. So and so talks to so and so and the next thing you know, I'm like a drug dealer. I'd get the knock on the backdoor of the cabin when it was time for these guys to head home. 

Hutch: "What's up?" 

Dude: "I hear your selling flies. How much?" 

Hutch: "$20 for five flies and for every five that you buy, you reach into that cooler and get two bags of meat for FREE. How many flies you want?"

Dude: "Give me ten flies...I gotta take something home to show the wife that I was fishing." 

Hutch: "$40...thanks, here's your flies and go ahead and get your four bags of FREE meat." 

Ten minutes later...another knock at the back door and so on and so forth. 

SO...it worked then, it'd work now. Those guys don't want to do all that yankin' if they don't have to! :lol:


----------



## Abel

TC, you're a *&^%($ Genius!!!


----------



## thousandcasts

Abel said:


> TC, you're a *&^%($ Genius!!!


Eh, every once in awhile I'd have somebody with the nerve to try and talk me down on the price of my flies and I'd have to get all Pulp Fiction on them. 

Hutch: "What do I look like--do I look like a (Female Dog) to you?" 

Low Balling Dude: "No...not at all." 

Hutch: "Then why are you trying to (Fornicate) me like a (Female Dog)? These are premium (freaking) flies here...Orvis would kill to have these (Mighty Fine) flies in their catalog." 

One of my best friends, Beef, we call him (Beef appears as one of the characters in my first book _"The Fish of a Thousand Casts--Tales of Mischief and Mayhem in The Great Outdoors"_ available in the M-S online book store) was into working out at the gym all the time, so he'd come up there all buffed out and all.

Beef: "Is there a problem here?" 

Low Balling Dude: "No...no problem, $20 sounds fair to me!" 

Ah yes...as I've said many times lately, those were the good 'ol days! :lol:


----------



## mondrella

foxfire69 said:


> Whit, did his parents own and operate that sporting goods store years ago? I bump into him on the Big Man and last spring catching Bluegills on the Lake in Brethren! He's a good guy for sure!! I wish someone would buy the gas station-store and make sure they have gas and ice this year for Steelhead season! Last year had neither and I thought it was ironic that the building next door still has the sign painted on the building "Brethren Ice Co."!!



You can thank my group of guys for that. Last year we rebuilt a Transmission line there and when you have 16 large trucks to fill and 8 pickups every day and their supplier not willing to deliver more than 500 gallons of fuel a day. They tried hard to get more fuel because it was costing them money. As for the ice we played a small part in that being drained down on a few occassions. So you know we should be back in the area this winter possibly into spring. Great guy owns the gas station and really did his best to cater to our needs. Great subs for a gas station/Deli.

I met Winston next door Great guy.


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## foxfire69

Mondrella, Thanks for clarifying! I did talk the boys into pulling in there in the evenings just in case they had more Gas and Ice and sure enough, they had just enough to top the boats and trucks and I got the last of the ice!! We'll be better Boy Scouts in the next few weeks and we'll "Be Prepared"!! What's the name of that gal that wears mini-skirts?


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## earl

Ive picked up my loose eggs at Tippy for years. This issue has been more that a little frustrating. Well, TC is certainly right on that other thread that nothing gets done through internet ranting. This issue was revisited by higher ups for a number of reasons: one of which a buddy of mine is still getting blow back from. Im struggling what to do about it (he took his actions only because I encouraged him to). Theres a couple of ways to go (do nothing and hope it passes, have him get a permit to carry and loan him a firearm, aggressive legal action to force administrative action; some combination etc.). I went to bed after watching a Jack Nicholson film, tossed and turned; remembering the people writing about movie scripts in these threads. Suddenly I could hear it:

*The truth is, we live in a world that needs uncured single eggs, and those eggs have to be acquired by men with ticklers- whos going to do it? You? You, Thousandcasts? Snaggers have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Salmon, and you curse the snaggers. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Salmons death, while tragic, probably gave uncured single eggs. And snaggers existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, provides uncured eggs. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about on internet forums, you want snaggers out at Tippy; you need snaggers out at Tippy. They use words like yanking, flossing, yellow rodding. They use these words as the backbone of a life spent providing steelheaders with something. You use them as a punchline. Snaggers have neither the time nor the inclination to explain themselves to steelheaders who cast and wait under the blanket of the very bait they provide, and then question the manner in which they provide it. They would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a yellow rod, and grab a tickler. Either way, the state shouldnt give a damn what you think you are entitled to.*


If I had realized that is was the plan up at Tippy I would have made alternative work plans and got off my lazy rear and done more river salmon fishing. I know that raw eggs are illegal for sale (even from a licensed wholesaler), are the reasons for that rule when it was initially established all still valid? Should that issue be revisited?


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## mondrella

foxfire69 said:


> Mondrella, Thanks for clarifying! I did talk the boys into pulling in there in the evenings just in case they had more Gas and Ice and sure enough, they had just enough to top the boats and trucks and I got the last of the ice!! We'll be better Boy Scouts in the next few weeks and we'll "Be Prepared"!! What's the name of that gal that wears mini-skirts?


The one behind the counter is Tammy great person. Really have a lot of respect for her. She made some mistakes in her life and is now turning it around. Always had some comment to make me laugh. Everyone that worked there seem like good people.


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