# Time for a zone "4"



## grassmaster (Jan 10, 2009)

I'm sure most Michigan duck hunters wish we had a few more weeks, later openers and splits would solve all this but that's another topic.
What I;m proposing to CWAC next year is Zone 4.
107 day Michigan sea duck season for Lake Michigan, Superior, and lake Huron. Open until Jan 31 st.
Old Squaws, Scoters and Harlequins only and you must be outside the pier heads on above waters.
Same 6 bird limit would apply.


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## duckbuster2 (Aug 14, 2008)

NO WAY the seasons are great just the way they are.


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## adam bomb (Feb 27, 2006)

Happy with our current zones and dates.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

That would be our fourth split? To satisy the maybe 100 people that sea duck hunt particularly when 90% of the access points to the big water are iced in, we will lose the late splits across all three zones?

Seems fair.


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## grassmaster (Jan 10, 2009)

Why do you want LESS of a season on a under hunted abundant species that winters here?
The argument they would someway lower the limit holds no water.
Old squaws outnumber any other species of duck in Michigan, and although total numbers are down worldwide 25 % in the last 10 years, Michigan's population has actually increased since the zebra mussel explosion.
Now add to this you can only get at them about 25% of the 60 day season because of wave conditions. so its a 15 day season.
Ramps froze over is no different than Harsens having 6 inches of ice in the corn, you don't go.
This is for Sea Ducks only.


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## michiganoutdoorsman (Dec 29, 2010)

No thanks. You do a sea duck season, they lower the limit on them as well. Guaranteed. People have been smacking squaws for the last month that I know of. Limits every time out of 6 per guy or close to limits usually. With a sea duck season who knows what they would put the squaw limit at? 3-4 per guy? Plus with a 4th zone I heard we wouldn't have any splits for any of the zones in the state. It's either 3 zones and 3 splits or 4 zones and no splits. At least that's how I understood it from a member on here.


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## grassmaster (Jan 10, 2009)

I'm just calling it zone 4....in actuality it would be an additional season like our early teal season, which didn't effect the limit, move the splits, or interfere with the 60 day regular season.
As far as 100 Old Squaw hunters, sure its not popular and requires specialized equipment, but so does frog gig'n and turtle trapping.


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## Divers Down (Mar 31, 2008)

grassmaster said:


> I'm just calling it zone 4....*in actuality it would be an additional season like our early teal season, which didn't effect the limit, move the splits, or interfere with the 60 day regular season.*
> As far as 100 Old Squaw hunters, sure its not popular and requires specialized equipment, but so does frog gig'n and turtle trapping.


Im down with that but it aint gunna happen.
I live on Erie so squaw would require me drag my rig 4 hours north or west. I may utilize that season for 1-2 days maybe if launches allow.


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## duckbuster2 (Aug 14, 2008)

Years ago they used to have a late Bluebill season,the particition was very low it didn't last long.Our seasons in Michigan are from Sept. to Dec. that's plenty of time to hunt.But if you want to hunt longer travel to other states.


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## wavie (Feb 2, 2004)

Where do you get your figures from your first post?


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

I'll save everyone the time and heartache of a debate - proposed zone changes and season dates from CWAC were due to DNR waterfowl work group a week ago.

The next 3 season openers and zones for the next 5 years will be discussed, voted, and recommended to the NRC at the January 9th 2016 CWAC meeting.

If your proposal didn't reach the Waterfowl work group by December 1st - then you have 5 years to plan.


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## lastflight (Aug 16, 2005)

grassmaster said:


> Old squaws outnumber any other species of duck in Michigan


Wow, now there's some news!


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## Dahmer (Jan 22, 2007)

I like the season the way it is now. Also where are you going to find a launch open from mid Dec. to Jan 31. Huron and Superior will be locked up and Michigan will be limited. I see no benefit in a sea duck season. Leave it the way it is.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Proposed a special zone to the DNR about 4 years ago. Have the proposal and map around someplace. Loosely mirrored what the DNR has for fishing with "great lakes and drowned river mouth" regs. There was little to no support for the idea and it died a quick death. But I thought it did make some sense...just another option to consider. So hey, go for it.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

I'm curious how people explain away possession limits when these zone/date proposals are postulated.
We have 81 days of teal shooting alone. With a 3 days bag PL, How does the committee address the P/L?

When a pitch is made, does it even come up?


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Gamekeeper said:


> I'm curious how people explain away possession limits when these zone/date proposals are postulated.
> We have 81 days of teal shooting alone. With a 3 days bag PL, How does the committee address the P/L?
> 
> When a pitch is made, does it even come up?


From past experience, one person's opinion doesn't carry a lot of weight. You need to get support. If you are part of a waterfowl or other organization, try to get that group to support your proposal. Then go to your CWAC rep, who is supposed to represent the thoughts of their constituents. So talk to your CWAC rep in your particular area or for your organization...List from the DNR website http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/CWAC_List_Of_Members_450259_7.pdf?20151208155253

If you don't feel your CWAC rep is properly representing you, then you should go to the DNR's CWAC Coordinator, who I believe is still Don Avers (one of the CWAC reps on this site can correct me if I'm wrong).

You still may get shot down...lots of proposals do. But if you feel strongly enough, then what I listed above are the steps I would take.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

So there is no back and forth with the committee's?
I would have thought that there would be plenty of spirited discussion, demanding clarity, proof, hard scientific numbers, etc. before the latest proposals were voted yeah/nea.

Michigan doesn't support the subsistence lifestyle in the way other states do. P/L's have/had a/an historical meaning. I'm curious how they play a roll in the decisions.
I'm very aware they are a nuisance to duck hunters.
Perhaps with modern population study techniques, they should be abandoned?


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## idylmoments (Apr 28, 2002)

Not a bad idea but but out of the 100 people that hunt sea ducks, 90 would be set up next to us. So I say leave it the way it is.


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## grassmaster (Jan 10, 2009)

A lot of data is out because of all the proposed wind turbines for lake Ontario.
Since the introduction of Dreissenid mussels [zebra and guagga] there's been a major change in Old Squaw and Scoter migrations into the Great Lakes to winter and feed on the new food source, that as well as, you guessed it global warming contributes to the substantial increase in Sea Duck numbers found in all the Great Lakes.
Its not all mussels they feed on either.
samples collected from the stomachs also include snails, small fish, sludge worms ,crawfish,seeds, buds even leaves.
Fish eggs especially whitefish are another treat and good old sand accounted for 25% of stomach contents.
I think of someone went in with all the hard facts in a power point type presentation the idea could get some traction.

.


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## SuperBlackEagle2 (Nov 4, 2005)

grassmaster said:


> Why do you want LESS of a season on a under hunted abundant species that winters here?
> The argument they would someway lower the limit holds no water.
> Old squaws outnumber any other species of duck in Michigan, and although total numbers are down worldwide 25 % in the last 10 years, Michigan's population has actually increased since the zebra mussel explosion.
> Now add to this you can only get at them about 25% of the 60 day season because of wave conditions. so its a 15 day season.
> ...


This is all good info. You came prepared. Include this info, when you send your request to Santa Claus.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

11, 12 million mallards in the fall flight this year. But they don't have a clue on how long tails are doing other than populations are down.

Please show figures stating how many long tails are in Michigan. Figure I heard is 50k. That's the population. I think Michigan kills I repeat kills at least 100k mallards a year. The managed areas alone kill 20k+ a year.


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## pikenetter (Mar 28, 2009)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> 11, 12 million mallards in the fall flight this year. But they don't have a clue on how long tails are doing other than populations are down.
> 
> Please show figures stating how many long tails are in Michigan. Figure I heard is 50k. That's the population. I think Michigan kills I repeat kills at least 100k mallards a year. The managed areas alone kill 20k+ a year.


 i know the few times the weather cooperated for us to get out, that are combined groups took a couple hundred sqaws, if you would like to add that to the yearly kill total...i'm sure the number is quite higher for the boys with all the free time who start pounding on them in the UP in early Oct.


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## blklab (Jan 5, 2011)

http://www.flyways.us/regulations-and-harvest/harvest-trends

850 squaws killed last year estimated


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

blklab said:


> http://www.flyways.us/regulations-and-harvest/harvest-trends
> 
> 850 squaws killed last year estimated


That's ridiculously low. A couple years ago between our 3 boats we were over a thousand ourselves for the season.


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## blklab (Jan 5, 2011)

Its a good thing they dont base limits off you guys! The numbers for the east coast are stupid low! Probably more of a mallard or puddle duck survey but even thats just a guess.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

blklab said:


> Its a good thing they dont base limits off you guys! The numbers for the east coast are stupid low! Probably more of a mallard or puddle duck survey but even thats just a guess.


Short lived. TJ is now married and making babies  Hunting 10 guys a day makes the numbers add up. A few years ago we hunted 7 and killed 84 over the split.


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## michiganoutdoorsman (Dec 29, 2010)

I heard of a group that went out and in one day shot 102 squaws. 4 layout boats on the big lake plus 17 guys. No idea who they were but that's just crazy to me and hard to even imagine that pile.


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## grassmaster (Jan 10, 2009)

Here's a few more facts....Low level Ariel surveys conducted in 2011 counted over 32,000 Long Tails in western Lake Michigan alone.
Total Great Lakes estimate is 250,000 with most in Northern Lake Ontario.
Total Old Squaws rival Snow geese at 8-10 million birds.
Like morning doves, mortality from hunting Long Tails has virtually no effect on populations.
Too bad the little rascals aren't causing destruction of the tundra,then we might get spring snow like regs with no plugs and no limits.
and if you've ever hunted em electronic calls would be deadly, they make some great sounds.


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## mkubiak (Feb 21, 2006)

The easiest solution is adjusting the lines of zone 2 southward.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

mkubiak said:


> The easiest solution is adjusting the lines of zone 2 southward.


EEEEEEEKKKK!!!! And.....they're off LOL


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## wavie (Feb 2, 2004)

Not sure where your getting your numbers from but a quick search showed only an estimate of 1 million birds in North America (8-9 million, world wide? The Baltic sea winters the largest population of 4-5 million) by the WBPS. How many come through the great lakes? I am sure the surrounding states would join in with longer seasons. Now your harvest rates increase, how much, who knows.

Most abundant duck in MI? Really? Curious where that is stated. Are you looking at WPBO numbers? Are you taking data from Long Point research station and their telemetry studies?

If your that hell bent on shooting longtails later, drive over to Ontario and plug away at those birds as their season goes late into December. If your ever in Toronto, check out Center Island, you would think they are park ducks.

DNR has always emphasized participation, your catering to a select group. Personally I think its selfish, just my opinion.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

wavie said:


> ...DNR has always emphasized participation, your catering to a select group.....


This is kind of where things fell apart when I brought up the idea a few years ago. There are so few hunters who have the gear to do this kind of hunting, that the DNR was not willing to lose the split to add a 4th zone (which is what I was told would have to happen in order to have 4 zones) for a very small number of participants. .


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## grassmaster (Jan 10, 2009)

You nailed it but that would be like giving the UP to Wisconsin!
I hunted 2 southern ports this fall for Sea Ducks and never saw anything except Buffleheads and tons of Common Mergansers, they do exist just farther out and later in the year.Not much into hunting without sight of land.
South Haven, Saugatuck and Holland whitefish trawlers used to catch them in there nets by the 1000s. but there usually 10 miles out.
It just seems so simple to ad a separate season like they did for teal.
biologist new there was a early push of Teal so they gave us a shot at em.
Give us a longer shot at Sea Ducks, they winter here.
Technically there's 7 species of Sea Ducks, Eiders [4] subs species, Scoters [3]
Goldeneyes [2] Mergansers [3] then Old Squaws, Harlequins, and Buffleheads.
These are classified by the Sea Duck Joint Venture Initiative .
Sure most would be happy to just get at the Squaws and Scoters.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

grassmaster said:


> It just seems so simple to ad a separate season like they did for teal.
> biologist new there was a early push of Teal so they gave us a shot at em.


You answered your own question - biologist actually know very little about the Great Lakes sea duck populations. They have not been studied the way that other species of ducks have.
Until you have empirical data and information about historical populations, you'll never be able to convince biologists to support a special season.

As an example, we have bird count data regarding blue winged teal and peak numbers dating back 30+ years, and data for sporadic periods back to the late '60's - enough data to tell us that 70+% of the BWT migrate from Michigan prior to September 9th, on average.

"commercial whitefish trawlers net them by the thousands" isn't going to get you anywhere.


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## grassmaster (Jan 10, 2009)

Lets not call it zone 4, its a new season for a populous duck that scientific facts back up.
Why is everyone afraid of it ?
Did the early teal season change any splits, seasons or bags?, nope.
they based it on migration facts just like I'm doing.
I guarantee you there's more Old Squaws in Michigan right now then mallards.
Probably all ducks combined!
As far as being selfish and for a select few, lets see, snipe hunters, crows, rails, snowshoe hares,
bobcat hunters, this is what makes Michigan so great, variety.
would like to do an Ariel survey of Lake Michigans coast and count Sea Duck hunters on a day with 5 MPH east wind


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## waterfowlhunter83 (Aug 10, 2005)

grassmaster said:


> I guarantee you there's more Old Squaws in Michigan right now then mallards


Just by the most recent counts at the state managed areas, there are almost 30K mallards just among the 7 areas. So saying there are more longtails here than mallards is probably not an accurate statement.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

grassmaster said:


> Lets not call it zone 4, its a new season for a populous duck that scientific facts back up.
> Why is everyone afraid of it ?
> Did the early teal season change any splits, seasons or bags?, nope.
> they based it on migration facts just like I'm doing.
> ...


you aren't hearing what most of us are saying. I think many people here would support your idea. But many of us have sat through the regulation discussions for years...some of us here for decades. You need to convince not only the Michigan DNR powers, but then the regional DNR powers, and the feds, in order to get such a special season. Keep in mind that OTHER states in our region can and do affect how we set our seasons because they influence the feds. It's very political. Ask anyone who has been around through it all how long it took to get a special teal season again. It took years, and a ton of true, actual data, not conjecture. And as far as comparing any ducks to crows, bobcats, etc., it's apples and oranges as far as regulation due to the fact that ducks are migratory, and the feds basically rule. Bobcats for example can be regulated by Michigan powers only...a much easier (although still not easy) task. The current federal structure won't allow another zone in Michigan unless we give up the split...at least that's my understanding/recollection from the last CWAC meeting where we discussed zones/splits.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

So the population is so low on the,east coast they're cutting the bag limits, but there's more here so let's kill more.

Cool. The populations of canvasbacks on the east coast and east side of Michigan are down but more are using the pools on the Mississippi. Let's bang the he'll out of them as they've changed a pattern in regards to a changed food source.

I ran three trips for steelhead out of Holland in November and didn't see a single sea duck. I saw over 2000 mallards between Lansing and Cold water today.


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## grassmaster (Jan 10, 2009)

I would have hated to be the guy who stood up at the meeting and pleaded for 5 mergansers as a separate bag.
Its a fed thing I'm just saying.
The coot limit must be way too high, I didn't see a one today.
Sunday I was 1 mile from Todd farm on 118, never saw a goose, but that's another mess right?
When your watching the weather on your local station at 6 ,when you see the lake you'll see a light blue Nike swoosh of sand in southeastern Lk Michigan. dead zone, unless your in a 40 ft crab boat 10 miles out!
I will say Pool 9 guides get there way.


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## adam bomb (Feb 27, 2006)

mkubiak said:


> The easiest solution is adjusting the lines of zone 2 southward.


No effing way!


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

I was in a 22' Four Winns. At one point we were 17 miles out. Usually we're hitting birds with our planer boards out there and have the 12's in the cabin in case we want to try a drift down. 

Last week we watched somone come out in a tender with a layout across the bow and run around, out of sight to the N, S, and W for over an hour and a half and never set up. I found this odd as I know people a port or two north of us did very well that very day.

Hunting pressure has definitely changed the patterns out there. The birds we find in 20-50' in the spring are way more boat shy than they used to be.



Fact is if you want to propose this in front of CWAC, you'd better have your numbers straight and cite sources. You tell them that there's more long tails in Michigan than mallards, I'm pretty sure they'll won't take the rest of your point seriously, no matter how well you can present it.


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## pikenetter (Mar 28, 2009)

having hunted lake michigan squaws for ten years now i can give my opionated insight.
1. squaws do not migrate in large numbers until it is cold (glass the pond in january once)
2. the number of birds are no where near what they were 5 years ago, some of this is do to the big winter kill when the lake froze over the other part is pressure
3. to say that number of birds we are killing out there every weekend is not effecting the popultaion is wrong. the more you shoot of anyhting the less there will be... they do not reproduce until the age of two
4. they are much more intune with the fact they are now flying targets

for us west siders these birds usually make or break our seasons, the DNR does very little in regards to duck habitiat on the west side. if we had flooded corn to hunt here like the eastside managed sites we would hold more birds. muskegon marsh is pretty much and overgrown cattail bog, if they did 1/8 of the diking they do at shiawasse they place would be a duck mecca.

as for seasons, for me personally, i would much rather have everything start a week or two later than it does now.


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## ice ghost (Jan 17, 2015)

Bunch of interesting stuff here. I know alot of duck hunters that are 2nd or third generation hunters and hunting sea ducks isn't a part of any conversation ever. I don't think the law makers are too concerned about a few. Guess if it doesn't effect the regular season, who cares. Hell, make a zone 4 and it might just get popular.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

pikenetter said:


> ...if we had flooded corn to hunt here like the eastside managed sites we would hold more birds. muskegon marsh is pretty much and overgrown cattail bog, if they did 1/8 of the diking they do at shiawasse they place would be a duck mecca....


This is a bit off topic, and I'm not going to disagree with you one bit. But I felt I needed to clarify some of the reasons WHY this probably won't happen (not that many people, including many DNR staff, wouldn't love it to happen). Shiawassee River is an INCREDIBLE area! All one needs to do is look at an aerial photo of the area, or the DNR's unit map, and you'll see just how cool and unique it is. But what you really need to understand is some of the history. The origins of the SRSGA managed area infrastructure began with an agreement in 1950 between the state and the federal government to jointly "manage" the area, and there are two "sides", basically the state (west) side and the federal (east) side...thus, the Shiawassee National Wildlife Refuge was created on the east, and in the mid-50's, the DNR started working on their "side" of things. A DNR staffer named Marv Johnson, who has passed, is widely known as the "father" of the Shiawassee River state managed area. There is a plaque and bench dedicated to Marv outside the DNR office in St. Charles. Marv fought the battles in Lansing and elsewhere for funding, labor, equipment, etc. to get the area moving forward. When people said "you can't do that" or "it can't be done", Marv moved forward anyway. The miles and miles of dikes and other infrastructure up there would not be there were it nor for Marv's relentless efforts. But remember, times were different in the 50's and 60's. Back then the permitting and environmental concerns were not like they are today. It is widely known that if you tried to create today what exists at SRSGA now, you could not do it...the regulations and powers that be would not let you. Even if you could find the money to do it, it would not be allowed. So having said all of that, yes, it would be nice to create more diked areas over on your side of the state. But even if you could find the millions of dollars it would take to do it, today's regulations probably wouldn't permit it.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

Considering they used to shoot canvasbacks in the celery beds down the road from my house, I'd have to agree. (Well written about in Willam B. Mershon's books) 
Dike and drain was popular all through the 1920's along the Saginaw river basin. People worked cooperatively through the formation of drain commissions to mitigate flooding, and protect agriculture.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

just ducky said:


> you aren't hearing what most of us are saying. I think many people here would support your idea. But many of us have sat through the regulation discussions for years...some of us here for decades. You need to convince not only the Michigan DNR powers, but then the regional DNR powers, and the feds, in order to get such a special season. Keep in mind that OTHER states in our region can and do affect how we set our seasons because they influence the feds. It's very political. Ask anyone who has been around through it all how long it took to get a special teal season again. It took years, and a ton of true, actual data, not conjecture. And as far as comparing any ducks to crows, bobcats, etc., it's apples and oranges as far as regulation due to the fact that ducks are migratory, and the feds basically rule. Bobcats for example can be regulated by Michigan powers only...a much easier (although still not easy) task. The current federal structure won't allow another zone in Michigan unless we give up the split...at least that's my understanding/recollection from the last CWAC meeting where we discussed zones/splits.


When can I bring up the generation gap? Real waterfowlers want later dates, all one has to do is look at the counts right now to know later is better. MS flyway is probably one of the worst managed flyways unless you live in AR, at least they can open up over Thanksgiving weekend and shut down to help extend their season. I have no issues opening up the same dates, but my God lets shut it down to extend the season. Here's a recent study and it can't be argued. Fact of the matter, date range doesn't matter when you have people hunting 1/4 amount of the days allowed. 

Number of days hunted *Ducks*:



1-2 days 9%
3-5 days 15%
6-9 days 10%
10-14 days 18%
15-19 days 10
20-29 days 17%
30-39 days 9%
40-49 days 7%
50 or more days 5%
Mean: 17
Median: 13


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

adam bomb said:


> No effing way!


Come up with a better way than adjusting the lines then, because people south of 94 get screwed now.


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

More squaw drama, what a suprise.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

sswhitelightning said:


> More squaw drama, what a suprise.


I would say it's standard season date drama, it won't stop until things change, which I don't see happening.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

So with more than half of all ducks shot in about 3 weeks time, it would seem the filet of duck hunting is being served.
It's a bold position for a border zone whiner to take.
The feds aren't managing the system for you.


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## waterfowlhunter83 (Aug 10, 2005)

SBE II said:


> Here's a recent study and it can't be argued. Fact of the matter, date range doesn't matter when you have people hunting 1/4 amount of the days allowed.
> 
> Number of days hunted *Ducks*:
> 
> ...


Do you have a link to this "study"? Just putting numbers in a forum post doesn't really mean anything...


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

waterfowlhunter83 said:


> Do you have a link to this "study"? Just putting numbers in a forum post doesn't really mean anything...


60% of the time, its accurate all the time.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

Gamekeeper said:


> So with more than half of all ducks shot in about 3 weeks time, it would seem the filet of duck hunting is being served.
> It's a bold position for a border zone whiner to take.
> The feds aren't managing the system for you.


Clearly you must not travel outside of Michigan often. The Filet of duck hunting is when the season goes out...If I'm not mistaken the Feds say you have 60 days within a given date range, the state then determines the range. So it would seem like I have suggested before, the Feds say, Okay state you get to decide your 60 days, why can't the state now say okay hunter you decide your 60 days, your start date that you choose reflects the start of your 60 day countdown "Choose wisely."

Mississippi Flyway (Alabama, Arkansas, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Ohio, Tennessee and Wisconsin):




Ducks:* A hunting season is proposed of not more than 60 days between Sept. 26, 2015, and Jan. 31, 2016. *The proposed daily bag limit is 6 and may include no more than 4 mallards (2 hens), 3 wood ducks, 1 mottled duck, 2 redheads, 3 scaup, 2 pintails, 1 black duck, and 2 canvasbacks. The proposed daily bag limit of mergansers is 5, only 2 of which may be hooded mergansers. In states that include mergansers in the duck bag limit, the daily limit is the same as the duck bag limit, only 2 of which may be hooded mergansers.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

waterfowlhunter83 said:


> Do you have a link to this "study"? Just putting numbers in a forum post doesn't really mean anything...


Gfk/MRI 2014 Custom Study for Ducks Unlimited, you won't find a link because it's insider information. People that pay for publication and advertisements ask such questions..


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

It really doesnt matter. We could have a 30 day or a 100 day season and some of us will always kill more birds and not have excuses of weather, where they live or time of year. Sounds like greedy me me me me me hunters in here at times.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

sswhitelightning said:


> It really doesnt matter. We could have a 30 day or a 100 day season and some of us will always kill more birds and not have excuses of weather, where they live or time of year. Sounds like greedy me me me me me hunters in here at times.


So you wouldn't like a choice? That's like saying, hey obama thank you for making me choose healthcare and if I don't thank you for taking the money from my tax return. If you feel like weather isn't a reflection of a migratory bird, I cannot help you, if it weren't for breeding/hatching I could say you probably wouldn't mind hunting them in July..Come on guy..For future reference please see current bird counts at your state WMA's...


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

SBE II said:


> So you wouldn't like a choice? That's like saying, hey obama thank you for making me choose healthcare and if I don't thank you for taking the money from my tax return. If you feel like weather isn't a reflection of a migratory bird, I cannot help you, if it weren't for breeding/hatching I could say you probably wouldn't mind hunting them in July..Come on guy..For future reference please see current bird counts at your state WMA's...


I didnt say i had no preference. You assumed that and want to tell me what im thinking much like government. I dont have a vote in this, but merely a small voice giving an opinion trying to sway a committee member. Weather isnt everything in migration. I think this season was a fine example of that. Birds came through and we had very few days of freezing weather. I have seen bird counts at my local managed areas. WPO is a useful tool to me every season. Last 2 weeks of oct and the first 2 weeks of nov historically is when i kill the most variety in birds. Refuge numbers tend to agree. Later than that nq, fish point and shiawassee risk freeze out.

Fwiw i would love july hunting. I could pretend im in Argentina or mexico. Maybe flightless birds would be slower. In your words come on guy. Dont make obama comparisons and then be like him telling me stupid things.


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## grassmaster (Jan 10, 2009)

Whitelightning, why wouldn't a Sea Duck guide on Lake Michigan NOT want a longer season?
Global warming is a fact, yet it seems to not mean a thing to the states in setting their seasons .
pretty soon the coast of Lake Michigan will have palm trees growing on it and the season will still close the 1 st week in December and it will be 75 degrees!


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## goosemanrdk (Jan 14, 2003)

SBE II said:


> Clearly you must not travel outside of Michigan often. The Filet of duck hunting is when the season goes out...If I'm not mistaken the Feds say you have 60 days within a given date range, the state then determines the range. So it would seem like I have suggested before, the Feds say, Okay state you get to decide your 60 days, why can't the state now say okay hunter you decide your 60 days, your start date that you choose reflects the start of your 60 day countdown "Choose wisely."
> 
> Mississippi Flyway (Alabama, Arkansas, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Ohio, Tennessee and Wisconsin):
> 
> ...


If some one chooses sept 26 as their start and some one else chooses 60 days priot to Jan 31 as their start date, then the "season" in the state is open way more than 60 days. If some one is legally hunting then the season is open in the state is how I am pretty sure the feds look at this. Say you can convince them for a choose your own adventure, pretty sure they would restrict you to fewer days (maybe 30) to compensate for the longer time that someone/anyone would be hunting in the state. Sign me up for that, NO THANKS!!!!!!!


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

goosemanrdk said:


> If some one chooses sept 26 as their start and some one else chooses 60 days priot to Jan 31 as their start date, then the "season" in the state is open way more than 60 days. If some one is legally hunting then the season is open in the state is how I am pretty sure the feds look at this. Say you can convince them for a choose your own adventure, pretty sure they would restrict you to fewer days (maybe 30) to compensate for the longer time that someone/anyone would be hunting in the state. Sign me up for that, NO THANKS!!!!!!!


Still the same amount of days being hunted by the general population. 60 days is 60 days, would it require the Feds to say, yea sure, of course. But in all reality we're not even close to what we're being offered. This is a shooting for stars suggestion because most people aren't rational enough to still want their own choice. With this said, Z3 suffers, and the guys that want later are hit with a 2 day split, why can't it be 1 week? Stop for a week after the opener, give us an entire split for a week. Nope instead we have to focus on the people that hunt 7-9 days and deer hunters.


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