# Will Small Game hunting come back?



## thisusernamevalid (Sep 14, 2013)

When I was a kid growing up in SE MI deer hunting had to be done up north, there weren't any around here to speak of. Because of that, opening day of pheasant season was a bigger deal than deer. Everyone that I knew took the day off of school. Rabbit and squirrel was discussed at lunch, not a buck (unless someone's dad had just gotten back and there was a story). 

Last year the AA news published a story about the decline of small game hunting:



AANews said:


> Small game hunting license sales have declined steadily by 2 percent a year on average since the mid-1950s. Hunters bought 256,177 small game licenses in 2011, down 1.9 percent from 2010 when 261,000 purchased them.


http://www.mlive.com/outdoors/index.ssf/2012/09/downward_trend_continues_for_h.html

Now that the state has changed the license structure and you are required to buy a small game (base) license before you can get any other license, will small game hunting return to it's former glory? 

Personally, I think it will increase the number of hunters, so I'm voting yes. I do not think it'll be by a huge amount.


----------



## Rysalka (Aug 13, 2008)

I tend to think no change in numbers, just another step for some to purchase the deer license.
Small game hunting is alot of work, some would think the benifit or game to the freezer to small for the cost and time soent.

I don't really deer hunt, do bag one yearly but live to small game hunt as it is my passion.


----------



## miruss (Apr 18, 2003)

No will not help. It's to hard to find good land to hunt small game. When i was a kid i could go about a mile in any direction from my house and hunt small game. No way in heck could you do that now way to much posted land. People are way to much in to worshiping the whitetail deer to let people hunt their land even after deer season and they are not hunting.


----------



## Jager Pro (Nov 8, 2013)

i agree, itll increase a little but not by a lot. The fact that some people will actually have a license will encourage them to get off the couch and go hunt. But i wouldnt expect a big revolution of small game hunting.


----------



## john warren (Jan 25, 2005)

well, it never let up for me. i would rather hunt small game then deer.

will new hunters choose to hunt small game? that will depend on their mentors. i know my 11 year old grand daughter is all about squirrel hunting with grampa. 
but as long as deer hunting is talked about and treated like its some big deal , thats where the impresionable kids will go.
personaly,, while i take a deer most every year,, i don't see much attraction to shooting something so big .


----------



## Tron322 (Oct 29, 2011)

I think small game hunting will never be popular again, hunting culture has turned into trophy hunting, small game is not a trophy people will pursue to put on their wall, most "hunters" I know that go small game hunters shoot squirrels for practice and if a rabbit is too shot up they throw it out.


----------



## Ed Kurzawa (Sep 8, 2009)

I know a few people that shoot squirrels and leave them, and call it hunting. No... It's killing without a purpose. At least be smart enough to kill off an invasive species like a starling or house sparrow if your just out to kill. Hunting is for food.


----------



## superposed20ga (Dec 14, 2005)

"well, it never let up for me. i would rather hunt small game then deer."

I second that^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

Probably won't help. Today's culture is too fast paced. You can go out and sit in a tree stand for a couple hours and say you hunted while you screw with your I-phone. Small game hunting requires you to get up and move (God forbid). As was mentioned, there are few good places left within a reasonable distance from where folks live. It doesn't stop me though. My dad and I drive almost 2 hours sometimes to get to good spots to run our beagles on rabbits. The best trophy is fun. Fun with my Dad and my beagles. I deer hunt my share too, but it ain't like rabbit hunting. No sir.


----------



## MIhunt (Dec 18, 2011)

Small game was/is always something to do before or after deer season. It's fun doing it simple, walking around the woods and seeing what you can find. But my passion is with deer hunting. IMO there's something great about spending a few quiet hours in a tree.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

Small game and upland are my favorite hunting. Dogs, long walks, what's not to like?


----------



## 19rabbit52 (Jul 15, 2007)

2 things needed to increase small game hunter numbers, both of which would increase game numbers. First is habitat. Lack of is hurting game birds and rabbits. Flying predators. Get hawk and owl levels back down to 1960 levels and small game populations would explode, hence hunter numbers would follow.


----------



## thisusernamevalid (Sep 14, 2013)

19rabbit52 said:


> 2 things needed to increase small game hunter numbers, both of which would increase game numbers. First is habitat. Lack of is hurting game birds and rabbits. Flying predators. Get hawk and owl levels back down to 1960 levels and small game populations would explode, hence hunter numbers would follow.


I think you're missing the coyotes, which we didn't have in the '60's.


----------



## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

ESOX said:


> Small game and upland are my favorite hunting. Dogs, long walks, what's not to like?


I'm with Paul!

Deer worship has priced me right out of hunting them. My wife won't eat it unless disguised in a chili and my folks told me not to bring them any. Hard to justify paying a few grand for myself. That buys a year's worth of "prime cuts" 

Small game for me... Cheap fun close to home, good exercise and watching a dog work a track just too cool!


----------



## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

I agree with habitat.
I'm not sure if the coyotes take more small game than the fox or if they just replaced them for the most part.
Avian predators are definately a problem to populations.
Land access is also a problem because of the "deer land manager" doesn't want you to look at his property let alone hunt it. Heaven forbid that your dog should run a rabbit across the property line, the world will cease to end :yikes:


----------



## john warren (Jan 25, 2005)

Shoeman said:


> I'm with Paul!
> 
> Deer worship has priced me right out of hunting them. My wife won't eat it unless disguised in a chili and my folks told me not to bring them any. Hard to justify paying a few grand for myself. That buys a year's worth of "prime cuts"
> 
> Small game for me... Cheap fun close to home, good exercise and watching a dog work a track just too cool!


 lol. goodness, what are you doing? my cost for deer this year was a tank of gas and a licence. already had my 20 ga and a couple left over slugs. and clothing. i went out . sat on a bucket and by 7:35 was dragging my deer back to the truck. a whole 50 yards or so,,darn thing was suppose to run towards the truck.


----------



## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

I've gutted so damn many deer in my day I am sick of them...........I won't do it again unless one of my kids wants to deer hunt. And deer hunters themselves have contributed to his desire to just not deer hunt. Besides the fact that he prefers to keep moving in the cold and loves working dogs........ we just take firearms deer off.


----------



## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

john warren said:


> lol. goodness, what are you doing? my cost for deer this year was a tank of gas and a licence. already had my 20 ga and a couple left over slugs. and clothing. i went out . sat on a bucket and by 7:35 was dragging my deer back to the truck. a whole 50 yards or so,,darn thing was suppose to run towards the truck.


I guess we were spoiled by 20 years of a phenomenal lease. Split up costs were less than 200. After losing it we shopped and got sticker shock. Anything close to what we had would be 5k plus and hunting Public Land way too frustrating.


----------



## DIYsportsman (Dec 21, 2010)

All good points mentioned, but access/habitat is key here, and it has to be where you live, if you have to drive hours to get there its only going to happen a few times a year..

Sure there is huge hype in popular culture about antlers you cant eat however its mostly that, tv and internet hype, there are tons of regular ppl i know who want to run beagles but have very limited property available...



Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

I'm curious as to what Shoeman's average drive time is to hunt his dog and frequency?

IMO, it boils down to the priorities in life


----------



## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

FREEPOP said:


> I'm curious as to what Shoeman's average drive time is to hunt his dog and frequency?
> 
> IMO, it boils down to the priorities in life


30-40 minutes each way vs 2+ hours to get to the old lease. Prior to this year I would hit it 2-4 times a week.


----------



## Tagz (Sep 22, 2005)

Some good points here. I only small game hunt. And I have it different then I think anyone else posting here. With my hawk I can hunt areas gun hunters can't. City ordinances are against discharging a weapon, a city itself does not have the power to regulate hunting itself. So as long as I am following all other laws I hunt plenty of places with zero pressure. And let me tell you its great. I always see good numbers of rabbits. When I do go and hunt public areas open to gun hunters with my bird I have a hard time seeing anything. If I was a gun hunter I would be frustrated with lack of game in those areas, and more importantly lack of areas to hunt depending on where you live. I think those need to be addressed for small game gun hunter numbers to increase.

I agree also with the point that some people wont do more than sit in a blind/stand messing with their smartphone. Small game is more physical work, at least for me with the hawk because I am the dog. I think something needs to be done with getting the younger generation outside. 

I have read many times about relation to numbers of raptors to decrease in small game. Its true that bird of prey numbers have been on the rise. But when you think about it that way, something thriving like that, their food source must also be. Not like they are getting hand outs somewhere. Nature does a good job of regulating itself. There needs to be a food source for them. I hunt with the largest species of hawk in Michigan a Red-Tailed. I know others that do as well. I have had my bird go after a handful of pheasants and yet to successfully keep one down. Not saying it doesn't happen, it does. And I hope it happens for my hawk one day. In falconry getting a pheasant with a Red-Tailed Hawk would be like a deer hunter getting a 12 pointer with a bow. And this is with a bird that has been conditioned and trained. In the wild the majority of their diet is voles.

Not sure if it will come back. On paper it will at least look more successful next year.


----------



## k9wernet (Oct 15, 2007)

Shoeman said:


> hunting Public Land way too frustrating.


You just keep telling yourself (and everyone you meet) that. Leave the glory that is Michigan public land deer hunting to the rest of us! Where we go it's rare to see sign of another human.

And those who lament the loss of access to private land for small game... have you knocked on any doors? I've never been rejected in looking for land to rabbit or bird hunt on after deer season. Even land that's posted.


----------



## john warren (Jan 25, 2005)

k9wernet said:


> You just keep telling yourself (and everyone you meet) that. Leave the glory that is Michigan public land deer hunting to the rest of us! Where we go it's rare to see sign of another human.
> 
> And those who lament the loss of access to private land for small game... have you knocked on any doors? I've never been rejected in looking for land to rabbit or bird hunt on after deer season. Even land that's posted.


 amen, with over 9 million acres available to public hunting, and plenty of farmers willing to let you hunt crow. and woodchuck. 
all you have to do is meet them and be friendly.


----------



## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

k9wernet said:


> And those who lament the loss of access to private land for small game... have you knocked on any doors? I've never been rejected in looking for land to rabbit or bird hunt on after deer season. Even land that's posted.


You obviously haven't knocked on enough doors yet


----------



## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

FREEPOP said:


> I agree with habitat.
> I'm not sure if the coyotes take more small game than the fox or if they just replaced them for the most part.
> Avian predators are definately a problem to populations.
> Land access is also a problem because of the "deer land manager" doesn't want you to look at his property let alone hunt it. Heaven forbid that your dog should run a rabbit across the property line, the world will cease to end :yikes:


Its not just coyotes and fox. The access issues include trappers as well. Without keeping ****, grinners, skunk, feral cats and mink populations in check, any ground nesting bird or animal has a real rough time of it.


----------



## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

CHASINEYES said:


> Its not just coyotes and fox. The access issues include trappers as well. Without keeping ****, grinners, skunk, feral cats and mink populations in check, any ground nesting bird or animal has a real rough time of it.


I forgot about ****, I read a study about the about amount of rabbit nests that they get. I had not thought about them before.
There is no open season on feral cats :evil: 

It must be a biotch being on the bottom of the food chain


----------



## CHASINEYES (Jun 3, 2007)

FREEPOP said:


> I forgot about ****, I read a study about the about amount of rabbit nests that they get. I had not thought about them before.
> There is no open season on feral cats :evil:
> 
> It must be a biotch being on the bottom of the food chain


I found 3 invaded rabbit nest this past spring on just 5 acres. Layed out some steel and grinners, **** and cats were very abundant. Fluffy has no place in the wild, we need a season. The Feds have a documented study done on smallgame mortality. What they found was up to 80% of all smallgame mortality was from house and feral cats.


http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs...kill-billions-birds-and-mammals-us-each-year


----------



## sniperx043 (Nov 27, 2012)

I would think it would stay the same.. alot more.people are going to go to rabbit and bird hunting and most likely stay away from squirrels just due to small access to 22 ammo.. yes some people use shotguns for squirrels but alot use 22.. 

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Ed Kurzawa (Sep 8, 2009)

CHASINEYES said:


> I found 3 invaded rabbit nest this past spring on just 5 acres. Layed out some steel and grinners, **** and cats were very abundant. Fluffy has no place in the wild, we need a season. The Feds have a documented study done on smallgame mortality. What they found was up to 80% of all smallgame mortality was from house and feral cats.
> 
> 
> http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs...kill-billions-birds-and-mammals-us-each-year


Ill second that. Cats are natures little killing machines. They can be helpful in neighborhoods, but have no place in the woods.


----------



## jackbob42 (Nov 12, 2003)

Anybody ever think of the kids?

Small game won't come back till they shorten up the deer seasons.
I remember as a kid , we'd start rabbit hunting the 1st of December. Not so cold and not too much snow yet.
Now , we can't get the kids into the woods till the 1st of january.
How many kids (future hunters) do you think like to go out when it's that cold and the snow is that deep (to them) ?
Kinda hard to get them hooked when it's so tough (to them).
It's a whole lot easier for them to stay home and play video games.


----------



## Tagz (Sep 22, 2005)

jackbob42 said:


> Anybody ever think of the kids?
> 
> Small game won't come back till they shorten up the deer seasons.
> I remember as a kid , we'd start rabbit hunting the 1st of December. Not so cold and not too much snow yet.
> ...


I hunt rabbit September 15 to March 31.


----------



## thisusernamevalid (Sep 14, 2013)

sniperx043 said:


> I would think it would stay the same.. alot more.people are going to go to rabbit and bird hunting and most likely stay away from squirrels just due to small access to 22 ammo.. yes some people use shotguns for squirrels but alot use 22..
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


 
Jeez, this .22 shortage thing just keeps growing new heads. 

I just bought a box of 525 from Dunham's for $21.99 a few weeks ago. It's not all that hard to find if you pay attention. I have about 2500 rounds at home, which is a normal supply for me. We've been using .22 all season for squirrel. 

Most of the peple I talk to are finding it regularly. Not what you call plentiful, just regular.


----------



## chris-remington (Oct 7, 2012)

I often find myself wrapped up in deer hunting, and small game hunting after mid gun season. Mostly rabbits, and I do love it, but it's a love hate, my dog isn't a 'bird or bunny dog' he does ok, but not as good as most dogs, this means a lot of walking, and the possibility of not even seeing anything. Everytime I go out for deer I'm fortunate enough to see at least a doe. If I had a better dog, better land, and a better chance I'd go out more, and I think a lot of others would too. If only we lived in a perfect world.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## Ed Kurzawa (Sep 8, 2009)

I don't worry about the deer hunters to much. I small game hunt up until firearms deer season, let them have 2 or 3 weeks then I'm back out small game hunting. The woods are open to everyone.


----------



## N M Mechanical (Feb 7, 2008)

ESOX said:


> Small game and upland are my favorite hunting. Dogs, long walks, what's not to like?


Still have not come up with anything not to like about that


----------



## Mr. 16 gauge (Jan 26, 2000)

I have to say no, it won't help, and I have to agree with those who mentioned habitat. I've been hunting S.E. Michigan SGA since the late 70's...over the years I've seen them change, and not for the better. There are a lot of areas that the trees need to be logged off, and planting a cornfield here and there isn't "habitat management". The DNR needs to start planting self sustaining cover, log off large amounts on certain SGAs, and, in general, manage for ALL game species, not just white tail deer.

As an aside, I used to hunt the holly and ortonville SGA quite heavily while I was in college....there used to be a lot of rabbits and grouse (and during the migration, woodcock) on those areas. The DNR planted turkeys in those areas, and over the years, the turkey numbers increased while the grouse and rabbit numbers dropped. I think this all goes back to food sources....it takes much more food to keep a 20lb turkey alive, at the expense of several grouse, rabbits, or whatever. I'm not saying eliminate the turkeys, but I think it's one of the unforseen consequences of reintroducing them in these areas.
At any rate, I haven't flushed a grouse or rabbit on those lands in ages...........


----------



## 19rabbit52 (Jul 15, 2007)

I know Kentucky grouse hunters that hate turkeys. They claim turkeys prey on young grouse.


----------



## thisusernamevalid (Sep 14, 2013)

Lots of discussion about species not interacting well, ie: turkey and grouse, turkey eating all the grain, etc. Remember these things were all here before, with the exception of coyote. They all seemed to do ok before we were involved. 

While it's true they had a lot more room back then, I don't think one species will suffer over another. I think they'll still balance out and coexist.


----------



## willy05 (Nov 19, 2005)

Oct 20 was just as good as Nov 15 when I was a kid, used to like the anticipation waiting for 10am parked in front of your first field. The orange army was just as big for pheasants as for deer I think back in the day. With or without a dog a walk through a couple fields or fence rows and you could have your 2 birds.


----------



## Wolverick (Dec 11, 2008)

Small game management has always taken a back seat to deer management in this state. I my mind the lack of game and the difficulty of access in zone three has a lot to do with the drop off. A lot of guys have turned to varmint hunting to fill the void. I`m not saying that is`nt a blast, just that it`s a response to the lack of small game. I used to have beagles and hunt snowshoe all winter,could`nt wait for deer season to end so I could take my dogs out. For many years you could`nt find a hare track in miles of walking swamps that used to hold tons of them. Fox, coyote and deer was all there was. I did`nt replace my dogs as I lost them.

The good news is rabbits are on the upswing after many years of being in the dumps. I don`t have dogs yet but will be hitting the swamps soon to see if my impressions are correct. If I find good shooting again I may not break out the pop-up this year as I`d rather hunt than fish.


----------

