# Uh oh



## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

I agree. I'm just mainly venting about the added abuse that comes with the additional publicity and how some may think I'm overreacting, but if the same thing started happening on other waters they'd be equally PO'd. I don't even worry about internet posts anymore, but when just about every recent outdoor article (some that appear in several newspapers) and several national magazines have articles screaming, "Come to the Mo, Come to the Mo!" that will do more damage than any website out there. Even with a bunch of people there, I'll still get my fish so that doesn't factor into my irritation--it's the take and destroy attitude that goes along with the added pressure that gets me going.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Matt won't be happy until he is booked 365 and has 4 other guides under him booked 365, so the publicity train is not going to stop soon. Matt is out for Matt, plain and simple. Just look at his web site, double digit numbers of scams pushing 20lbs on the Joe, 40lb kings on the Mo with 30 fish days ....

Everything the man does is motivated by ego and greed. If people knew how big of a tool he is his quotes would hold no weight, but alass not many people have enough experience with him to see his true colors.

Maybe it would be good for Sputnik to have all the guides under him booked 365, at least that way they wouldn't need the orange tape on the river marking spots for them LOL!


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

I didn't even mention the orange tape garbage. All I can say is that some of those weekend warrior guides are going to be lost, because someone removed a bunch of orange tape while they were cleaning up pop cans and beer bottles off the river bottom. That same person was also fishing a walk in spot the other night and noticed a piece of orange tape dangling from a tree branch above his head--it's not there anymore!


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

I agree publicity sucks!

I saw what it did at Tippy in the 80's, the Au Sable in the 90's and every other watershed since.

What gets me is the snide "in your face" sarcasm like Secret River, River X and the I welcome all posts regardless of impact mentality. As long it's not on my river...
This is one of the reasons I stay away from the major rivers and actually lost my desire to fish during those times of year. Post away...

Will Matt's project add noticable pressure during the height of the run? Doubt it. What's another 10 boats? Besides he practices C&R and therefore not impact the fishery by removing the fish. As far the other 9 months, I'd rather fish behind 10 boats stripping streamers instead of a few baitdunkers clogging the holes all day. I have found the majority of the guides very responsible toward the fishery and the welfare of the river. I've never seen any of them throw out bait containers or litter. 

Unfortunately, locals do not enhance a town's economy by staying at the Inns, eating out and filling the watering holes every weekend like tourists do. I make a special effort to spend my money in those towns. Take a look at Baldwin. Do you actually think that those services would be available if it wasn't for the out-of-town flatlander spending his money? 

I believe the problem isn't about a Hotel but a personal deep-rooted hatred toward the man. Maybe it's the length of his rod...lol


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

To be frank, I don't really care much either way about Sputnik and him constantly touting the Mo. What I do care about are his ethics and the ethics of some of the Non-Sputnik employed guides that make a living in the spring out of lining fish, chasing them down river for ever and a day because they are foul, let them flop around the bottom of the boat as they high five, wrestle it for 5 minutes making sure the pictures are good and then all of a sudden try to be gentle when they release it. I just count my blessings that Sputnik doesn't have many winter trips and most guides fade into the wood work when Oct and April are over.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Just making sure everyone is awake. 

Mods? Admin? Thousandcast? Anyone???


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## Freestone (May 15, 2003)

It sounds like a win, win situation for Newaygo. Tourism dollars will go a long way in helping the local economy. The impact on the river will be minimal in my opinion.


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## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

I have no personal knowledge of Mr. Supinski, so I won't go there. But I will say that the amount of people fishing the last 20 years or so, has increased quite a bit. I don't think in all honesty, that the growth pattern can be blamed exclusively on the internet. Today, more and more people have more expendible income, and therefore have the ability to travel to futher distances than ever before.

Having said that, this is exactly what the DNR wanted when they started the salmon program in the first place, it just natually gravitated to steelhead. No one is a big proponent of the masses, but its here, and it most likely won't change. Furthermore, we have more and more people buying more and more magazines, newsletters, etc that the writers are more and more as well. What I'm saying, TC, if we didn't have all these people fishing, and hunting, would you be a writer at all? Probably not, there wouldn't be an audience for it. If no one is buying these magazines, or newpapers, who would you right to, and we all know, the more people that buy a rag, the more the advertisers will spend in these rags for advertising.

Sit back and really ask yourself, is it because Mr. Supinski is advocating the MO so much, or is it possibly jealousy that he gets the noteriety, and therefore you can't stand the guy. Everyone, Mr. Supinski, Mr. Swan et al, all have their moments when what they say makes sense, they have chosen to be in this profession for one reason or another, they are just like any business man, trying to make their livey hood, and ideas work. Thats the American way. As far as the crowds go, its a fact of life now, we'll all just have to live with it. IMHO


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## WILDCATWICK (Mar 11, 2002)

Ahhhh, what a life, to be a guide and every day be faced with the Damned if you do, and damned if you don't. I talk to the guides of the Grand in Canada and this is a statement they use frequently. But you know what they have taken the approach that if we don't do it someone else will, so lets book 4 guides everyday if we can. But they all give back alot to the river and the fly fishing community.

I have not met Matt. I've read quite a few of his books and have seen him on fly-fishing television. He seemed very ethical and concerned about the fishery. His books tend to show that. I don't know if that is how he is in person, but I've seen nothing to prosecute him on.


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## Fishfoote (Jan 2, 2001)

I've read a bunch of compliant's about the "anti's", I would think the opposite of being an anti's would be someone that encourages participation in the sport.


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

I'm awake Shoeman...but since I'm a lowly bait dunker, I figured "mah input weren't worth a gol dang anyway!" Besides, I was busy cloggin up a hole!  :lol: 



> What I'm saying, TC, if we didn't have all these people fishing, and hunting, would you be a writer at all?


In all honesty, yes I would as I've been doing some form of creative writing since I was in middle school. What got me into the outdoor thing for awhile was when someone read some stuff I did in one of my (community) college creative writing classes and they asked me if I'd do some stuff for the Michigan Steelheaders newspaper, since I was a member at the time. The evil of it is this, it's fairly easy money if you have knowledge of the sport and you can write a coherent sentence. You spend a few hours typing up an article and if it gets published, you get a check for, let's say, $100.00 depending on the publication. Do two or three of those a month, and it's a good way to add to your monthly income without having to take on a 2nd job. The problem is when it gets repetetive and you have to start profiling certain rivers in order to have subject matter, ie: "The K'Zoo's Slamming Steelhead Fishery: Michigan's Best Kept Secret!" Now, some writers can do that and not give a rip--me? I did one of those types of articles and after it got published, I realized that I was a whore (for lack of a better word, please don't give me a strike!)--pimping out a river system for $100. I refuse to do that ever again and thus, I am "retired" from writing monthly articles. I've tried to write articles that teach ettiquette and or responsibility for the resource (anti snagging, cleaning up, etc) but the response to those is like being a stand up comedian playing in an empty auditorium (you can hear the crickets chirping). But to answer the question, would I be a writer if it wasn't for the outdoor articles? Yes, I'm currently working on a horror novel that was actually an idea I began to develop several years before I started doing any outdoor articles. It sure beats the hell out of trying to come up with creative ways to describe river salmon fishing. I mean, how many times can you read lines like "The aggressive king salmon charged from 10 yards away and crushed my black whooly bugger like a Porshe at full tilt on the Autoban" When in reality, it should read, "Yeah, the gnarly old king saw my sinkers coming at him and when he tried to get out of the way, he swam into my 6' leader and I nailed him right in the jaw with that fly!" :evilsmile :lol:


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## loomisfun (Sep 22, 2003)

How about a horror novel about salmon fishing!!!

No charge for the book idea.


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## Dutchman (Jan 17, 2000)

You know, I wouldn't be that upset by all the guiding if, they all used drift boats or 16 foot jons with 20 or so horse motors. But these friggin jet sleds are way out of hand. Why does someone need a 20 foot boat with a 150 horse pump? It is just a matter of time before someone gets ran over, or washed over from there wake. And if the so called guides are lovers of the river, what about the 3 foot rollers there boats cause that slam into an all ready fragile bank? They are causing excessive erosion in to the river! I live 2 miles from the Thornapple landing and I can hear jet boats take off from there while I sit on my deck. Talk about pristine!  As far as trash on the river? well, the fisherman are better than the tubers. My son and I used to go to the landing every sunday late afternoon to clean up the mess they left. He averaged around $5 a weekend in beer bottles returned. And I found several pairs of shoes and sunglasses.  and other things that can't be mentioned on a family site (USED! :SHOCKED: )not to mention enough 10 foot pieces of rope to hang them all.


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## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

TC, I hope you didn't think I was bashing you, that wasn't the intent, it was just a point. You have to admit, there are some writers out there than write for the love of writing, and then there are those that write to earn a few extra bucks, or perhaps for the glory of it all. You are absolutely correct in the theme of most articles these days, how many times can you write about the exact same things? Oh well, I digress.

It is unfortunate that things have changed to the way they are now, but unfortunately, I don't see it changing back much. There are still some rivers that don't get as much pressure, and I've seen some rivers that used to get a ton of pressure, but don't get as much today, don't really have the answer to why that is, except for the possiblity that the numbers are better elsewhere, and that right there might be part of the problem. Numbers seem to matter more today, than the experience itself. Egos, for the most part, just can't admit they have gone fishing and not caught anything. I couldn't tell you the amount of times I have fished and been skunked, does it bother me, not the least. We all have those days, but the ones who seem to be the biggest offenders of using the internet, are the ones who are only concerned about numbers.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Jealous of Sputnik??? I don't fish for noteriety, so not really the case. More of watching it get to the point where at times when fishing gravel, I've seen him not even shut down the motor. Drop's anchor, leaves the motor running and within 2 casts that long tailing out drift through spawning fish connects and he's off. Now sure, maybe he could not hold in that spot with his anchor :16suspect and left the motor running to help, but anyone that has seen how he anchors to fish gravel and has seen how he rigs people would just have to laugh.

I'm not going to give someone that lies about his success, lines fish, puts scent on flies but bashes bait and does things for the good of himself not the fishery any more thought.


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## stinger63 (Nov 25, 2003)

> for the most part, just can't admit they have gone fishing and not caught anything.


Hemm I didnt catch any fish last friday.Didnt catch any fish monday.Didnt fish on saturday,sunday and today.Am I afraid to say I got skunked :help:


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

You made some great points, Toto!



> TC, I hope you didn't think I was bashing you, that wasn't the intent, it was just a point.


Not at all, you asked a legit question and I wasn't offended at all. I just tried to provide an adequete, albeit long, answer. I write for the love of writing, which is why I'll never stop doing my humor books (although you'll start to see stories that aren't really outdoor related, but just humorous in general. 75% of the stories will still be outdoor humor though!) even though I really don't make any money off them. I figure if I can break even on my publishing costs, then it's a success--as long as there is one person that enjoys them, I'll keep writing them. A love of writing is also why I've started working on other stuff, like the horror novel as well as another book idea I've started to develop (totally unrelated to the outdoors). Some people collect stamps or paint, I write. 



> You have to admit, there are some writers out there than write for the love of writing, and then there are those that write to earn a few extra bucks, or perhaps for the glory of it all.


Yep, I agree 100%. When it came to outdoor articles, I fell into the "earn a few bucks" category. When you first see something you wrote in publication, there is a tremendous amount of pride and satisfaction. In my case that went away the more articles I wrote and it became a chore that made me a few extra bucks. The other writing I do is much more fulfilling and gives me a sense of great pride when someone laughs or says "I can relate to that!" I make enough money at my real job to support my family and keep a roof over my head, so I don't need to have writing become another job, know what I mean? Yeah, the extra money is always welcome in the family budget, but not if it means I have to start doing an expose' on every river in the state! :lol: 



> There are still some rivers that don't get as much pressure


Right...no need to write 50 articles on them, IMO. 



> Numbers seem to matter more today, than the experience itself. Egos, for the most part, just can't admit they have gone fishing and not caught anything. I couldn't tell you the amount of times I have fished and been skunked, does it bother me, not the least. We all have those days, but the ones who seem to be the biggest offenders of using the internet, are the ones who are only concerned about numbers.


Amen. I've had fun days where I haven't caught a thing and I've had fun days where I've brought 20 steelhead to hand. If given a choice, I prefer the 20 fish days (who wouldn't? :lol: ), but that isn't what makes me go out on the water--fish or not, any day above ground is a good day, IMO.


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## spiderman2 (Oct 30, 2004)

As i've done in years past,those little out of the way streams,and even lakes with trout make me just as happy,in the first part of the season.Kind of like hunting State land a few days after the opener.


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## quest32a (Sep 25, 2001)

Shoeman said:


> Besides he practices C&R and therefore not impact the fishery by removing the fish. As far the other 9 months, I'd rather fish behind 10 boats stripping streamers instead of a few baitdunkers clogging the holes all day.


Hey, I resemble that remark. I am not asleep at the wheel.... just stuck at work. I take it from your next post that the above statement was complete sarcasm. In fact, I too would rather spend all day on the river with a bunch of feather flingers than a bunch of baitdunkers. We all know flydunkers don't catch fish, so there will be more fish for me :lol: 

Damn flyfisherman, they are always trying to get in my hole that I am clogging....LOL


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## Erik (Jan 17, 2000)

When I quoted the phrase "there are no secrets" I meant thats what people always tell me when I say something like "we shouldn't post reports about early salmon runs on the LM". I didn't mean it to be snide or anything. It really does suck. Now since I brought it up someone will probably get on my case about it. Flame away. I can't help the way I feel. Its the same feeling as thousandcasts has about the MO. Just as it's the same feeling as some have about the white, or the dowagiac, or the PM etc... I respect those feelings. Thats why I hardly ever post fish reports. Out of respect for other anglers.


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## Creek-Chub (Apr 15, 2004)

Let's keep the Dowagiac out of this! It's the only pristine trout water left in the SW.  I've taken to putting up "keep out" and "sucker fishermen only" signs, but the boys from Ripple don't seem to take the hint... I think I'll take a note from Supinski's book - only instead of orange tape to mark honey holes, I'll get a bunch of that thick orange erosion fence that farmers use and stretch it across the river at varying intervals. That'll keep those damn drift boats out...


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## MPsteelheader (May 2, 2000)

chub its only gonna get worse...

it brings a tear to my eye...


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## Creek-Chub (Apr 15, 2004)

Nope - there's a guy on this site that likes to say "fat people don't walk", and that's the truth. I'll add that "most people don't float". There's still plenty of water that 9/10 guys don't fish, and it holds enough browns for me.


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## MPsteelheader (May 2, 2000)

yes that is true...


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## MPsteelheader (May 2, 2000)

quest32a said:


> Damn flyfisherman, they are always trying to get in my hole that I am clogging....LOL


well i'll just bat clean up behind ya like i did last summer...  :lol: 

you should have fished that spot for 5 more minutes!!!

lol


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## Black Ghost (Jul 3, 2002)

Sorry guys went out of town for a week right after I started this thread. Thought this would get a lot of reaction and I can see it did.

Mo was one of the first rivers I fished in Michigan starting in 1980. Just a few boats at that time, and not many guides that I can recall. The crowds were tolerable except for the salmon snagging season as I recall.

Yes it will be good for Newaygo economy I suspect but agree this river and the other Michigan blue ribbon rivers do not need any more publicity thats for sure.

Not been fishing it much lately preferring more solitude when ever possible even if it means less chance at fish.

We will see what happens I suppose. Hope its not like what happened to the PM after the PM Lodge went up in the early 80s ? :tdo12: 

 

Cheers

BG


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## bombcast (Sep 16, 2003)

Wait til the Mo River Map comes out- I'd bet shortly before the hotel is finished. Can't wait for Combover's self-serving pool names.- "Laurie's Delight", "Supinski's Surprise", etc.

Is there a man vomiting emoticon?

He's a liar and a fraud.


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

Here's one...










Or, try this one:


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

bombcast said:


> Wait til the Mo River Map comes out- I'd bet shortly before the hotel is finished. Can't wait for Combover's self-serving pool names.- "Laurie's Delight", "Supinski's Surprise", etc.
> 
> Is there a man vomiting emoticon?
> 
> He's a liar and a fraud.


Don't forget, after my water softener guy's mom sold Sputnik his property by thronapple, the water out in front all of a sudden became "Grey Drake Riffle" :lol:


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## Black Ghost (Jul 3, 2002)

Please we do not need a Muskegon River Journal thats a curse on any river with it, but I would add it to my river journal library I suppose. LOL

I used to love that river in the good old days before drift boats, jet sleds, and of course the GUIDES ! 

Here is a 1983 Muskegon salmon season picture. We were floating it in a canoe from Pine to Newaygo. Not sure where this was on the river. Not many boats on it back then fellows.

 

BG


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## Dutchman (Jan 17, 2000)

bombcast said:


> Is there a man vomiting emoticon?
> 
> He's a liar and a fraud.


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

I think enough has been made about this topic and everyone's had their say.


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

stinger63 said:


> I prefer the solitare of much smaller streams that dont get as much publicity:rant:


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