# Biologic Maximum



## chevyjam2001 (Feb 14, 2002)

My maximum foodplot came up great. It was planted around the 1st of Sept. and grew to about 2 foot tall. The deer never touched it though  even after a few hard frosts. I was out last weekend and noticed some fist sized "turnips" sticking out of the ground. Will the deer eat the turnip portion, and since the leaves are still kind of green is there a chance of those still being eaten.


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## Grouse Hunter (Jan 23, 2000)

What area are you hunting? 

Last year our plot got hammered from late october to december and there was nothing left. This year, they hardly touched it. A lot of food sources available coupled with lower deer populations is what we feel the culprit is.


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## wild bill (Apr 20, 2001)

i planted mine around the same time along with oats and some more winter wheat. as of now i have just brassicas left. the deer ate all the oats and wheat after green up. the rabbits are starting to hit the turnip bulbs now that we have snow on the ground.


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

My opinion - 

if you have rich habitat, good soil, lots of rowcrop farming, etc., and your deer densities are moderate (say pre-harvest density anything less than ~ 35 dpsm), deer simply will not feed much on brassicas. Maybe a bite here and there, but nothing like the stories you hear of them "tearing it up", a "minefield", etc.

I've grown some brassicas on my place for six successive years now, and still am waiting to see my first brassica plant eaten to the ground, or a nibble off of a turnip bulb.

I bowhunted yesterday, and watched a group of deer madly throwing snow around (and I had an honest fresh 10+ inches on the ground) to get to winter wheat. No action on the brassicas (which I have in five locations) whatsover. I have one plot of PF Mix, in which I added some Biologic Maximum seed, planted way back in mid-June; the brassicas grew quite tall there, as they had to compete with sunflowers, milo, etc., and now the most visible thing in the plot are the belt-high dark green leaves, towering above the snow, and completely uneaten. And all of my plots are soil-tested and well-fertilized.

The guys I know in farm country that have deer pounding brassicas all have greater deer density (40-70 dpsm) than I have.

This morning, I re-read the Book of Job, and resolved to continue to plant brassica seed.


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## wild bill (Apr 20, 2001)

farmlegend said:


> This morning, I re-read the Book of Job, and resolved to continue to plant brassica seed.


you and me both. good thing there not expensive. at least my rabbits like them.


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## chevyjam2001 (Feb 14, 2002)

I do live in farm country in the thumb. I was surrounded by corn until about 5 days before the gun opener. I figured after that I would start to see some increased activity. So far nothing that impressive, I put in a 2 acre food plot of ww,rye and oats with some austrian winter peas mixed in and the deer hardly touched that even. I see a few places where they are starting to dig through the snow but the peas went untouched for the most part. I guess that at least the ww will provide a good food source come spring for the does carrying fawns.


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## Live2Hunt (Nov 23, 2004)

I have four plots totaling about 4 acres of brassicas. The deer are, and have been, hammering them. Minefields. All have been hitting the greens. Only about half are seeking out the bulbs. At least that what I have observed from stand.

Of course I do fit FL's description. High deer density. DNR claims we are 60 - 70 deer per sq mile here in Barry county.


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## Wallywalleye (Jan 4, 2005)

Planted Biologic Full draw & Maximum around the middle of August, came up real good & as of Dec. 4th all that's left are stubs sticking out of snow. By spring it will look like someone brush hogged the fields (2 1/2 acres total). We took two 2 1/2 year old bucks (8 & 10 pt'r) & a doe off the fields. Saw 10 to 15 smaller bucks (spikes to 6 ptr's) hopefully for next year. This was in the middle of thumb. Saw one much bigger twice, but never a good opportunity. WGF


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## lyndon43 (Jun 10, 2005)

Located in south central wisconsin. Have a good deal of ag land around my property.


Over 1/3 of my property is heavy cover & tag alder & dogwood. Most of my plots have heavy cover around them.

Planted turnips & winter rye on field ( 1acre), and Turnips & rape & winter rye on another 1acre field. First year trying them, & the deer have chewed them to the ground. They have also started eating the tops of turnips ( have purple top planted & they get softball size), but none have tried digging them out of the ground. 

Do not have high deer #'s. A very good day hunting would be 4 -5 deer. I think a big reason why they are on these plots is the cover & proximity to bedding areas. These plots end up being a staging area, as they get ready to head out towards ag land fields North & East of my property.

Will they dig up the turnips? Or just eat whats exposed?

I did have a very light amount of chickory in the seed mix. The deer had it gone before they started on the turnips & rape.


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## Lew (Jun 8, 2003)

I am in the WUP and all my brassicas are gone by Sept. 1. The deer eat very little clover until the brassicas are all gone. So it must depend upon the area as to how well they like brassicas. As Ed has mentioned many times variety is an important factor in food plotting. Lew


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## sandbur3 (Sep 24, 2005)

In the northwoods, they were pulling the purple tops out of the ground in late October. In ag country, they still are not touched as of today. A higher population in the northwoods, also- maybe 25-30 per mile. Less deer in the farm country.


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## mike hartges (Jun 9, 2003)

Like Farmlegend, my property is in Hillsdale county. Last year I planted a small plot of Ed's Brassica mix. The deer ate them to the ground. We have a lot of deer so they'll eat brassicas if they get hungry. I believe the brassicas were the last food plot to be consumed. My other fall plantings of corn, winter wheat and oats are gone before the deer finish the brassicas. We had about a foot of snow on the ground this past weekend. The deer pawed thru the snow to get to the clover and winter wheat but there was no deer action in my small brassica plot.


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## Huntmaster143 (Aug 28, 2003)

I'm in the same boat as Mike Hartges and FL located in Hillsdale and this year our deer have barely touched the brassicas. We planted 8-10 food plots this year that used brassica as a cover crop for the clover and the deer were picking around the brassica to get to the clover and the chickory in the plot. The deer are now picking at the tops of the plants that extend above the snow, however with 10-12" of snow, they are digging in my cut corn field more than they are eating the brassica's. However, last year, our first year of planting brassica's, the deer did end up eating the plots down to the dirt by spring time.

One thing that has really surprised me is that we have about 3 acres of standing soy beans that have barely been touched. This is the first year we have left SB stand and so far I'm not impressed, but I'm sure they will get eaten.

HM


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

On our property in WI the deer hammered the rye/wheat combination plot throughout Sept, Oct, and Nov. There was a strip of rape down this field that started to be hit in early Nov, and the 2 acre all-brassica field nearby was hit at the same time as well. During the weekend before Thanksgiving the deer started hitting the brassicas much more and by last Friday the deer seem to be ignoring the wheat and rye, and concentrating soley on the brassicas.

One of the things that happens in this area though is that in the valleys below there is a considerable amount of corn, soybeans, and alfalfa. We had a late frost so the alfalfa was hit pretty good into mid-Nov, and the corn and soys were around until early Nov. Now, there is very little food in the ag land and all those deer that hit the ag land hard in Sept, Oct, and early Nov seem to be gravitating towards the brassica. 

Like Lew said the brassica around here is gone early. Mine lasts in through portions of Oct in the U.P., but by Nov. it hasn't been growing for a month or more and can't compete with the hardiness of rye or other grains, even dying oats. We don't have fruit or mast crops, no ag land (by me anyways), and basically the only other highly attractive food sources are bait piles.

Anyways, I'm very pleased the brassicas are working so well in WI but next year we will plant rye/wheat and brassica mix 50:50 on the two, 2 acre fields we have planted so the deer are more evenly distributed throughout the entire season. 

I fully expect to find a good number of sheds in that brassica field and if not I will be very dissappointed. The deer also seem to like the wildlife mix within the CRP portions of the field surrounding the plots so it's looking pretty good for finding sheds. 

Sounds like the same old story though...some of the deer like it, some don't...but if they like it and you can save enough to the late season and beyond you are lucky so enjoy it!


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## Andy (May 20, 2004)

the deer seem to really hammer our brassicas. But here's a funny happening. This year we planted a large area with soybeans and then overseeded them at the start of October with winter rye. In the corner of this field, right along the beans and rye, we have 1 1/2 acres of Biologic Maximum. Well, to our surprise it's the only maximum plot that hasn't really been touched this year. If you go to other places on the land where maximum is the only food plot in existence, they wipe it out....but something about the beans and rye has them not touching that maximum. I guess the deer prefer standing beans and rye over maximum, that's all i can gather

andy


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## Lenaweebowhunter (Sep 15, 2003)

My farm is located in exsteam North West Lenawee County, last year my brasica/rape/sugar beats mix was "torn up" at this time of the season. I have lots of other agricultural row crops near by and the deer numbers in my opinion are above carrining capasity. My brassica plots are being hit but nothing like last year. The bigest change I can see that seperates this year from last is the tremendious acorn crop of this season I'm suspecting that the deer have been utilising the high energy fatty acorns all fall long and just havent needed the brassica like last fall. I have noticed since our deep snowfall of last Friday that now a number of deer are in the brassica and perrinnial clover/chicory plots each eavning just before dark. I still belive before the winters end my brassica plots will be utilised.


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## bishs (Aug 30, 2000)

The acorn crop is so heavy this year, it seems to be having an effect on foodplot usage. My plots are not getting much activity. The snow keeps piling up, and I have to believe they will shift gears for the standing corn. My brother owns 60 acres 1 mile away. He had a timber company do a lot of cutting in September/October. The oak tops still have acorns hanging on them. The deer are really getting after them. He is seeing groups of 10-12 deer feeding on the tops. Thats a lot of deer for our area.


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## Grouse Hunter (Jan 23, 2000)

Just checked our maxium plots. They were harldy touched all year, and when we checked last week, they were hammered!! Nothing left!!


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2005)

Brassicas are designed primarily for winter carry over forage. It is highly nutritious with both high energy and protein content. All brassicas target minerals and if deer do not eat it that's not all bad. To me it means that they are not stressed nutrition wise. 

Two years ago in late April while I was turkey hunting I observed something about forage rape that surprised me. As you probably guessed I plant much forage rape. I have increased my acreage of forage rape until I'm sure that come spring there is still some left. I observed 33 deer coming out of my standing corn in the AM and each and every deer stopped to pick up a dead brown rape leaf and chewed on it as they passed mr by. I mean each and every deer had a dead brown leaf sticking out of their mouth and chewing vorasiously. 

I'm not in the most productive area in Michigan, (md Michigan) yet since forage rape became a major componant of my food plots my observations, which are recorded shows the following.

Doe fawns get pregnant at the rate of 25%, triplets are now also 25% of all adult does. In fact I took a large sized doe the third day of the recent muzzle loading season that had triplets, all of which were male fawns. I'm sure they belong to her for I passed on her twice during the bow season in the same location, with these three BBs in tow. All BBs were quite decent in sze. The above is nowhere what I experienced just five years ago.

I understand that Purina has a brasica blend that includes a forage rape variety called upserge, which is much more palatable to deer early in the season. I planted Bioloic Maximum when it first came out, (Dr Grant woods called and suggested that I experiment with his newest creation). I planted an acre of Maximum next to my brassica blend and did notice a differance. The deer went for it in September and selected certain plant varieties and left my blend virtually untouched. Come November it didn't matter what forage rape was out there, deer liked it all.

One more odd experience if I may. This goes back at least five years. I was at Jays sporting selling raffle tickets and brassica seed in mid Summer. A fellow comes up and says. "I want a bag of your rape seed". Well, I asked him where he intended to plant it, hoping to steer him right. He says in my bow site in Midland County in farm country. I try to persuade him from buying it, telling him the farm crop competiion may be too high. He tells me that his friend swears by it and he will take his chances. 

Next year, same place, same time, up comes this guy and says, "Do you remember me"? Of course I lied and said, "How can I forget such a handsome face, what's up"? This is his story, he shows me a bunch of photos of rape growing and a nice 8 point buck. He tells me that his bow site is right next to an 80 acre field of corn. He then tells me that the deer would literally run through the corn to get at the forage rape and that he had many chances at taking does, fawns and several smaller bucks before the brute came onto the scene. It's a good thing that I'm not a good salesman. Oh, by the way he bought another bag of the magic beans.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

Ed posted...I understand that Purina has a brasica blend that includes a forage rape variety called upserge, which is much more palatable to deer early in the season.

Ed, do you mean this mix?
http://wildlife.purinamills.com/foodplot/antler.htm

Anyone try this yet? Looks pretty good to me.


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2005)

Yes, that's it Bob, Purina has a proprietory license on Upsurge. I aked Dr. Grant Woods if he could get me a few hundred lbs of upsurge. No dice. Dr. Woods did say that this stuff does work and was designed for the southern states due to the southern states not having their deer going for the normal forage rape in a big way. Forage rape is more to the deer's liking the further north you go. This explains why deer will go for forage rape in the entire UP and not necessarily only due to lack of other forage.

This has been known for many years in the UP. Sheep growers in the UP plant turnips in June and do not worry about deer hitting them until a few good frosts. This allows them to grow a good crop and then let their sheep gorge on turnips along with the deer, we call it food plots

Turnips have the same energy content as corn, plus protein at 13%. Add the high mineral content and turnips are the ideal winter forage. It is a very easy forage to grow and is forgiving of poor growing conditions. You can, under ideal growing conditions produce up to ten tons of turnip forage per acre. 

Thats 20,000 lbs per acre versus 100 lbs of forage from a mature forest and it is more nutritious. Just planting turnips in the UP I believe will make a big differance in their deer winter survival picture. Deer can dig two feet through the snow, with a single turnip being enough for supper. I have seen this in mid michigan.


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## wild bill (Apr 20, 2001)

Ed Spin04 said:


> Turnips have the same energy content as corn, plus protein at 13%. Add the high mineral content and turnips are the ideal winter forage. It is a very easy forage to grow and is forgiving of poor growing conditions. You can, under ideal growing conditions produce up to ten tons of turnip forage per acre.


that sounds great but when they wont touch them it does them no good. this was my 5th and final year of putting in turnips. ill give the rape another year or two. after that it will be more soy beans and corn if they dont start eating the rape. i can say that the rabbits like the turnips cause there the only tracks in the plot and i know i wont have to smell that rotten stench anymore in the spring when tilling the turnips back under.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Opinions really vary on brassica. I won't even consider planting an annual plot without making sure there is some brassica seed in it. Early August is the best planting time where I'm at in the EUP.


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## lyndon43 (Jun 10, 2005)

Ed


I'm located in south central wi. 

First year with food plots. Had two plots ( acre/plot ) that had rape & turnips, and turnips only. Both have been hammered.

I have sandy soils ( no sandy loam..just fine sands & sand ).

My question for you is have you noticed a difference in use of brassicas v.s. soil type ( i.e. nutrient availability ). I would have to believe this plays a role in usage by deer. 
I'm in a ag area with large ag fields north & east of my property, yet the deer have hammered the winter rye & brassicas.


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

wild bill said:


> i wont have to smell that rotten stench anymore in the spring when tilling the turnips back under.


You know, Bill, I can deal with deer ignoring my brassicas for the years 2000 through 2005. Biologic Maximum, Full Draw, Green Patch Plus, Spring & Winter Canola, Dwarf Essex Rape, Shot Plot, Dynamo Turnips, Purple Top Turnips, who knows what else. I'm probably gonna give it one more shot with that Purina stuff next year. 

But what really gets me to look inwardly and ask myself, "why the hell did I do all this?", is when I walk downwind of an overripe, uneaten brassica patch and catch full whiff of that smelly crap. 

Lyndon, as to my soil type, it's mostly heavy loams and silt loams.


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2005)

Lyndon43,

My experience has been mixed. That fellow from Midlamd that had deer running through corn to get at his brassica is odd and the exception. I actually tried to talk him out of planting it as an attractant at his bow site and suggested planting forage rape as a winter carryover forage and at least one acre. This guy didn't have an acre of open land. 

The following should answer questions for some , not completely for your set up Lyndon. First, brasssicas are somewhat drought resisitant, meaning you can plant it in lighter soils, with turnips being the most adaptable. When you have light soil and your neighbors have the same stuff you can actually compete much better than if you were in an agricultural area, with similar soils. You can compete and quite effectively with neighboring farmers crops, as apparently you have Lyndon, but normally you need to be creative and that is another complete chapter. In non agricultural areas of light soil, you can wipe the competition off the map with creative food plots. Most landowners of light soil do not have a clue as to what they should do to have a food plot, let alone a good plot.

Correcting that light soil, (agricultural areas also) to a pH of 6.5 minimum, getting the major minerals, phosphorous, potassium and magnesium to a high level, (not medium, HIGH) and improving the organic content will make your plots the envy of the area and you will see, I guarntee, deer use it from a mile away. Eventually they will bed as close to it as they feel safe. 

Now that's a tip, create deer beddding areas of around 100 yards or more of your food plot with you waiting in ambush, (staging area) in the connecting travel lanes you created.

When you have planted many small, (1/4 acre or less and connected with travel lanes) kill plots with a differant luscious plant type, (variety is important) in each one of these super soil corrected plots, the deer cannot resist to visit each and every one and this tends to encourage them to visit earlier especially if your attractant, (kill) plots are deep in the woods next to heavy cover, (bedding areas). Don't be surprised if you get 90% of the action in your area, especially in poor soil areas.

Lyndon as far as your question of seeing a differant use of brassica in good versus light soils, the answer is yes, with the poorer soils usually getting hit a bit earlier. That's the major differance. Once the deer take a liking to it it's only a matter of time before nothing is left in any soil type. Also in the poorer soil areas deer tend to go for brassica much more than the better soil areas and Lyndon the reason I believe is not because poor soil creates a more palatable forage. I think the reason is due to poor soil in general grows a high percentage of natural forage much less preferred by deer, (blueberries, sweet fern etc) and this forage changes into a course and tough plant much sooner due to less moisture being available versus good heavy loam soil, which holds moisture very well and grows a larger variety of forage and much of it is preferred by deer.


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

Ed Spin04 said:


> Also in the poorer soil areas deer tend to go for brassica much more than the better soil areas and Lyndon the reason I believe is not because poor soil creates a more palatable forage. I think the reason is due to poor soil in general grows a high percentage of natural forage much less preferred by deer, (blueberries, sweet fern etc) and this forage changes into a course and tough plant much sooner due to less moisture being available versus good heavy loam soil, which holds moisture very well and grows a larger variety of forage and much of it is preferred by deer.


Makes sense to me. I had thought that might be the case, now I've got confirmation!


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## brokenarrow (Oct 6, 2003)

My soil in my plots in North West Wis. has improved each of the last 4 years.
I was to the point last year of needing "0" lime (6.9) on one. The rest of the plots are are all high to excessive in P and K. That being said, each and every year that I plant brassica (and it dont matter which brand, I used 3 different ones, including Ed's twice) the usage of my plots that have it in it (they were rotated) has gone down. Down to the point where I am considering planting only a small strip next fall. 
The first year I planted a brassica, I thought I had found the fountain of youth for the deer herd! I had never seen so many deer in my fields as that first year. (10-12 every night) By me thats alot. The clover is in its first full year of growth (planted it in fall of 04). Last week I counted 5 tracks (sets) walking thru the clover. 2 of them stopped to paw in the snow, but only in 2 spots, the other three never put a nose into the snow, then they kept going?
This had led me to change strategy for next year and my plots will include soy's and winter wheat along with the standard corn field. I will leave a small portion of the clover also.
Sure makes you wonder why some years are "brassica years" and others are not. I believe that in this thread alone (if I read correctly) it sounds like two others here have had the best success with brassica (usage) in their first year of planting it? If a choice of food is available I wonder if they just get tired of brassica after the thrill of eating it the first year wears off? 
Great thread and a very good read.


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## JBIV (Jan 29, 2004)

Good thread !!!!!

For the last 5 years we've put in about 3 1/2 acres clover and turnips in Barry county and have had good success, almost too good. The deer just pound it, not leaving much left for later in the year. This comming year we are going to double the size of our plots and give rape a try. I'm loving the Idea that the deer won't touch it untill it gets cold. The soil is a mix, some areas are a wet clay loam, (some of which we put into treefoil this past fall), other areas its a fairly well drained loamy sand. The PH, in not sure I'd have to check with my Dad, he's the brains of the operation, but we did just have it limed this fall. Should we mix the turnips and rape together, keep them seperate, or keep the two seperate but mix something else with them. Please keep the info and your experiences comming.

Thanks, Jason


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## lyndon43 (Jun 10, 2005)

JB

I had one plot with winter rye/clover & turnips (turnips by mistake..father inlaw didnt cleanout drill). This field had heavy use all season with the winter rye & turnips after a couple of hard frosts. 

Other plot had winter rye/rape/turnips. This field had heavy use later in the season. Rape & turnips overpowered the winter rye.

I like the winter rye or wheat with turnips. 

My problem ( as is probably the case with alot of newbies) is watching your planting rates! I would much rather be heavy on the winter rye & seed below recommended rate on the turnips ( as was the case on my one plot). Had great leaf & root growth on the turnips, than the field with rape & turnips. I know we went to heavy on the rape & turnips + new field = stunted growth.

The plots getting most use now are the fields that were only seeded to winter rye & clover. They are still going after the winter rye strong. I have ag lands nearby, so my objective isnt corn or beans...its trying to establish a green source I can keep producing early & late into the year.


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## sandbur3 (Sep 24, 2005)

Ed -Are you using the terms forage rape and brassica interchangeably or are you planting two different blends? One of rapes and one of brassica in general. Maybe you explained this, but I missed it. I appreciate all the help from everyone.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2005)

Brassica and forage rape are used interchangeably sandbur3.

Broken arrow, winter has just started. I would wait for March to make a jugement call, when talking brassica useage. 

There's one thing not mentioned very often about planting brassica that's important. All brassica is a soil builder and if the deer do not eat it you have just improved the mineral content substantially, while the heavy roots and uneaten top forage from so called failed plots add a lot of organic matter. 

I advise the planting of brassica of any kind when one is building up light soil or any soil for that matter.

I'm fully aware that many are not knowledable about the need to recharge the crop field. Historically farmers would plant three years for a crop yield and the fourth year plant a forage such as red clover in the Spring to add nitrogen and organic content to the soil, then fall plow. Planting buckwheat with its deep and extensiive root system not only builds up organic content but there would also be an apparent increase of minerals. Buckwheat has the ability with its root system of attracting a host of minerals, (similar to brassica) and bring it up to the surface. Not too many plants can do this. 

We just covered some of the old time ways of adding minerals and organic content to the soil and cheaply. The use of fertilzer just 50 years ago was no more than a few lbs per acre and applied at planting time right next to the seed as a starter. Most minerals leach down into the soil and can be brought back to the surface. 

Leaves falling down from trees is another way of translocating minerals, sugars and protein. Bacteria and soil creatures such as worms will digest and break down these leaves into basic nutrients for new plant growth. Burn agriculture practiced by native Americans and still today by the South American natives gives their poor soil a shot of ash, (potash) and other important minerals. This lasts for about three years and then they move on and repeat the process, without ever adding any commercial fertilizer.

Good posts guys.


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## JBIV (Jan 29, 2004)

I have heard you guys say that it may take a while for the deer to acquire a taste for rape. If they already like the turnips we've been planting should I expect good results with the rape?


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2006)

Yes!


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## JBIV (Jan 29, 2004)

Excellent !!!!!!!


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## brokenarrow (Oct 6, 2003)

I did not know this about brassica (being a soil builder and improving the mineral content). Thanks Ed for that bit of knowlege.


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