# life jackets



## mikefde (Jan 19, 2000)

is it now law you have to have wearable life jackets in boats now not just the floatable cushins with straps on them? just curious a friend was telling me the law changed on life jackets and iam a new boat owner so i just want to be prepared. thanks for your time
mike


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

If your boat is less than 16 feet cushions are OK. If your boat is 16 feet or larger, you must have wearable PFD's (Personal Floation Devices) for each person on board and one throwable device). No change, that's how it has always been. If you are running a charter boat, that's something else. Small children is also different.


----------



## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

Boehr, I have a little 10' drift boat. Do I still need cushions if I'm only taking it down small streams?


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Yes, if it's in the water you need life jackets


----------



## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

Ok then where does one draw the line? When do waders become a watercraft and a float tube become waders?


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Steve, I think you are getting carried away a little. The law draws the line, by law; "Vessel" means every description of watercraft used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water.

Key word is *on* the water, not in the water such as waders or a float tube that floats on the water with your legs in the water. Other key words are *watercraft used or capable of being used as a means of transportation*.

This definition is of the same for federal law too.


----------



## steelslam (Apr 8, 2001)

boehr......so what you just said is i dont have to wear a p.f.d. when i use my float tube on small lakes or rivers because my legs are hanging in the water. i always have had one on before in the tube. like at the rental places on the rivers that rent tubes, they dont give out a p.f.d. to everyone tubing. please a legal answer to this.


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Correct, it is not mandated by law to have or wear a PFD in or on a float tube. A float tube is not a watercraft, not used for transportation, at least a common practice, etc. Sailboards are also not required to have a PFD, I think for safety I would wear one on a sailboard but, not required.


----------



## hypox (Jan 23, 2000)

so...you don't need to have a life jacket in a submarine then??...lol


----------



## quix20 (Jan 14, 2001)

but what if the sub sinks underwater and you cant get out. bet you would be wishin you had that there life jacket on, now wouldnt ya!!!

LOL

quix20


----------



## hoytshooter (Aug 31, 2000)

A few years back I was issued a ticket for not having proper pfd's. At the time I didn't have a proper understanding of the law, and thought that you only had to have them if you were in a boat powered with a motor. I fully understand that ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law. It is however my opinion that this law is a bad one as it is written. My personal opinion is that swimming and playing on floating rafts is far more dangerous than fishing on a row boat. Let alone sailboarding and surfing where you can be knocked out with the board. 

All I can say is that pfd manufacturers must dump some serious money in Lansing


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

I have to disagree with you there. PFD's have saved many lives, many have died because they did not have PFD's. Dumping money has nothing to do with it, it's a no brainer. Besides being state law, it's also federal law. I do agree with you that sail surfing is dangerous and in my opinion, one would be stupid to sailboard surf without a PFD. The marine law refers to vessels though, that is the intent of the law, not beach toys that were never intended as a method of travel on or in ("in", for the subs ) the water.


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

A pontoon boat is a vessel, yes.


----------



## quix20 (Jan 14, 2001)

i think he is talking about the ones that you can float down the river on boehr. like the float tubes, but in these you have the option of sitting in a seat out of the water or you can put your feet in the water like a round float tube.


----------



## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

I wasn't confused until reading this post. If you're duck hunting in one of those Floodings that is run by the DNR, like Harsen's Island or Bay Point, they state, during their initial speech, that all occupants of a boat must have "wearable lifejackets".
We even bought and painted some for that reason.
Is that an exception to the 16ft. rule?


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

There is no state law that says different than that I have already posted. I can't say about the places you mention as to if there has been some order that applies just to those management areas. I don't and have never worked at those locations. I suspect there isn't any law and they are trying to ensure the safety of all hunters. Ask them why you must have a wearable for a boat less than 16 feet next time.


----------



## hoytshooter (Aug 31, 2000)

Boehr, 

I don't disagree that pfd's save lives, or that it is a good idea to have them on board. I simply feel that there is a double standard. I also feel that a grown man should be able to make the decision as to weather on not to have them in a row boat. I find it hard to see any more or less danger in a row boat than on "beach toys". You may be right that there is no lobby, but I can't agree that they should be mandatory in a non-motorized boat.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I don't think it's a "no brainer" in a row boat any more than a sail boat, or a "beach toy". I'm not trying to argue with you, just voicing my opinion in a friendly debate. 

On another note thanks for all of the time you spend answering questions in this forum. There are laws that we may not like, but at least we understand them and are more easily able to abide by them.


----------



## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Hoyt, I hate to disagree. I small boat is more prone to capsizing than any other craft. I've plucket several guys out of the water in my 20+years of boating. Mostly guys with 12-14footers that got swamped or started taking on water.


----------



## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

I understand where you are coming from with the double standard, boats and beach toys etc. It makes it confusing for a person. The marine safety laws pertain to watercraft. It is that way because when the laws first went into effect many moons ago, the boiler plate language of that act required the laws pertain to watercraft only. That did not include beach toys etc. For an amendment to be made to the law to include "beach toys" would make that section unconstitutional.

We can agree to disagree and I'm sure the activities you do in a row boat may not endanger you or anyone else. PFD's are not there though just for the activities you do. How about the activities someone else might do and involves you. Another boat runs into you, how about a jet ski. Lots of different scenarios. How about someone else in the water that can't swim, would it be nice to have a PFD cushion to throw to the person and save their life? Bet it would make you feel pretty good saving a life.

If you feel that strongly, contact your legislator and see if he will get the law changed. I wouldn't count on it though, safety normally wins out. Motorcycles & helmets, seat belts in cars are a few examples. Then there is federal law to deal with to that requires the same thing with PFD's.

I don't think anyone, including myself, agrees with all laws but, my purpose here is to educate people to what the laws are, to keep them from getting into trouble and costing them money because of a ticket or worse.


----------



## hoytshooter (Aug 31, 2000)

Shoeman, 

Point well taken.

Boehr,

I agree a hundred % that pfd's are good to have, and you bring up some reasons that I hadn't thought of. I believe that a jet ski or other vessel could just as easily run into other things where pfd's are not required. I also know that it would be crazy to require them on beach toys. I was using that to illustrate the double standard. 

No I won't be trying to start a one man crusade to change the law, rather I just used this forum to vent a little. I bet that you have guessed that I think an adult should have a choice with seat belts also, even though I have always worn mine, even before it was law. Let's not get too deep into that though as it has little to do with hunting and fishing.

I do understand your mission to educate, and deeply appreciate it. I don't know if many other CO's would take the time.


----------

