# Cleanest Powder



## 3fingervic (Jan 28, 2009)

I have read a couple of articles about black powder substitutes. Most talk about 777 or Pyrodex, but some mentioned different powders that burned cleaner. Has anyone tried these? I just got this T/C Encore, so i have zero experiance. I've read something about Black Magic performing as well as 777 but burning cleaner.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

None of those you mentioned is nearly as clean as BH209 (Blackhorn 209)

I use 120 grains by volume of BH209 (only comes in loose from) seated under a Barnes 290 grain TMZ bullet/sabot combo. Works great and very, very clean.


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## 3fingervic (Jan 28, 2009)

Do you do anything between shots? After howmany shots do you remove the breech plug? I have to take the forend off the gun to get the breech plug out. Is loose powder the only way that powder comes?


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

I thought you said you had an Encore? No need to take the forend off to take out the breech plug, just break open the action! I have an Encore. I use a socket...they fit the breech plug perfectly. When you tighten the breech plug, just barely tighten it past finger tighten, *do not crank on it tight*! With the BH209 I don't remove the breech plug until I'm done shooting...might be 10 shots, might be 25 shots, just depends? With others, I would clean lossen and retighten every 10-12 shots. If you use a good lube, ( I use Gorilla Grease) on your breech plug you will not have a problem. Never install your plug dry.

Yes, BH209 is only available in loose and 120 grains is manufacturer Max load...it burns hotter and faster and develops more pressure than Pyrodex 777 and other substitutes.


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## hunt-n-fool (Oct 10, 2006)

my first time out with blackhorn 209 in my triumph, I shot 22 times, no cleaning, piece of cake.

The breech plug was fouled with carbon from the primers, but that has nuttin to do with the powder.

nice stuff, although its pricey.


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## 3fingervic (Jan 28, 2009)

My extrator is in the way, and it's not like the new ones that rotates to the side. I don't think I have the quarter turn breech plug either. I traded this Encore for an old .300 I had. I had never been shot and was still in the box, but I think it's an '06. I started a conversation with an other member and he suggested getting a breech plug with a larger opening a .25. But I havent researched that yet.


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## 3fingervic (Jan 28, 2009)

The Encore hasn't been shot. I haven't either thank god. The .300 had been used pretty roughly. Is there a brush to get the crud off the plug opening?


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## BUSTA'YOTE (Aug 26, 2003)

3fingervic said:


> I have read a couple of articles about black powder substitutes. Most talk about 777 or Pyrodex, but some mentioned different powders that burned cleaner. Has anyone tried these? I just got this T/C Encore, so i have zero experiance. I've read something about Black Magic performing as well as 777 but burning cleaner.



Black Magic, better known as Black Mag, Black Mag' 2, Black Mag' 3, and now the newest version Black Mag' XP is a very clean burning powder. This burns a lot cleaner than 777 or Pyrodex, but the newest version priced itself on a road to going out of business. MDM (Millenium Designed Muzzleloaders) is marketing the Black Mag (Magkor) powders in 10 oz containers, Lightning Loads, and in their Thunder Charge powder/bullet combinations. They are pricing themselves along side of Blackhorn 209 10 oz containers, but what they fail to see is that their powder is much more dense. So basically you are going to have to buy 3 containers of Black Mag' to equal 2 containers of Blackhorn 209.

Black Powder Substitutes are sold by WEIGHT, but for our purposes are measured by VOLUME equivelants. Not all powders WEIGH the same for VOLUME Equivelant charges. See below.

Example 1: 

10 oz BM'3 = 4375 grains WEIGHT
100 grains VOLUME = 105 grains WEIGHT (1.05 VOLUME to WEIGHT multiplier)
4375 grains WEIGHT / 105 grains WEIGHT (100 grains VOLUME) = 41.66 Charges per container.

Example 2:

10 oz Blackhorn 209 = 4375 grains WEIGHT
100 grains VOLUME = 70 grains WEIGHT (0.70 VOLUME to WEIGHT multiplier)
4375 grains WEIGHT / 70 grains WEIGHT (100 grains VOLUME) = 62.50 Charges per container.

You can use the above multipliers to figure out how many charges per container you would have for your typical load.

Black Mag Example: If you typically use a 80 grain VOLUME charge of powder, 80 grains VOLUME x 1.05 (multiplier) = 84 grains WEIGHT. 10 oz (4375 grains WEIGHT) / 84 grains WEIGHT (80 grains VOLUME) = *52.08* (80 grain VOLUME charges per container)

Blackhorn 209 Example: 80 grains VOLUME x 0.70 (multiplier) = 56 grains WEIGHT. 10 oz (4375 grains WEIGHT) / 56 grains WEIGHT (80 grains VOLUME) = *78.125* (80 grains VOLUME charges per container)

MDM
http://www.mdm-muzzleloaders.com/Me...Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=M&Category_Code=POWDER

http://www.mdm-muzzleloaders.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=M&Category_Code=LOADS

http://www.mdm-muzzleloaders.com/NewThunderCharge.html

Magkor
http://www.emainehosting.com/blackmag/index.html

The ONLY thing Black Mag' 3 has on Blackhorn 209 is it's ability to be used in #11 ignition rifles. Blackhorn 209 needs a hot 209 primer, but offers several other advantages over Black Mag', price per shot and availability to name a couple. Black Mag' has never been able to get the product on the shelves in more than a few choice locations. They had a deal with Cabelas at one time but screwed that up and Cabelas gave 'em the boot.

Long story short, Black Magic is a clean burning powder, price and distribution are not on their side. I predict, they were too late for the game now that Blackhorn 209 is out there. Western Powders has far better distribution than Magkor, Blackhorn 209 is the best BP Substitute to date IMO, you just need a hot 209 primer to set her off.

If you have an Encore, I would recommend the Blackhorn 209. Do a search on Blackhorn 209 and you will soon see it's advantages over BP and other BP Subs. I have talked with Don Luhr at the Western Powders Labratory on several occasions, Blackhorn 209 generates less pressure than 777, but generates higher velocities. Blackhorn 209 is a progressive powder and unlike a fast burning powder like 777 that has a rapid and high pressure curve (spike) that drops off just as fast, Blackhorn 209 is a progressive burning powder that has a longer pressure curve and continues to build pressure as the bullet is moving down the barrel. Longer barrels will allow you to burn less Blackhorn 209 powder to get equal velocites as 777 and therefore is more efficient. Not to mention, you can shoot without swabbing 'til the cows come home, try that with 777's crud ring. Check this whole site out.

http://blackhorn209.com/


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## RAMBOY (Jul 20, 2008)

What about Jim Shockey's Gold?


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## Tom Morang (Aug 14, 2001)

I will agree with bustayote. I too have been using bh209 and find it has many advantages. I would venture to say it is even cheaper to use than the 777 pellets, and no crud ring. Very easy cleaning. Use the same chemicals to clean your muzzleloader as you use in your center fires and shotguns. I hate using water to clean any gun.

100 grains of 209 is more than enough load in my TC Triumph. It yields clover leaf groups at 100 yards with 200grn Shockwaves and convinces me it's the way to go.


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## 3fingervic (Jan 28, 2009)

Thanks for the info. That was sweet. I will take your advise to the field and to the bank. I will try that powder with a few different sabots. And I should be in business.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Do yourself a favor and buy this!! No need to take your forearm off unless your removing the barrel.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...parentType=index&indexId=cat601233&hasJS=true


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## 3fingervic (Jan 28, 2009)

Consider it done. I didn't know they made something like that. That will make things alot easier.


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