# Caliber for Elk?



## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

Huntsman27 said:


> loaded with a 150 Nosler partition its all Id need. The 30-06 180 Partition, The 280 a 150 Partition. Any of them are fine enough to get the job done.


isn't that what i just said?


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## beartooth (Feb 14, 2007)

QuakrTrakr said:


> Very Cool! My buddy's brother lives in Alaska. Got his Coastal Brown at 15 yards last year. He said they were face to face on a bear trail in the tall bear grass. He said he was the most scared he'd ever been:yikes:Sounds like fun.


I bet he was scared but I bet it was fun.


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## beartooth (Feb 14, 2007)

rzdrmh said:


> i disagree that there is little difference between a 270, 280, or 30-06.
> 
> the 30-06 is a better elk gun, imo. bore size will get you a bigger hole. furthermore, when using 2 bullets of the same weight, but different caliber, the larger bore bullet will generally have a thicker jacket, making for a tougher bullet.
> 
> i simply said that i don't think there's enough reason to warrant the purchase of a 30-06 over the 270. though the 06 is a better elk gun, if making a purchase, it would be a bigger bore than a .308 diameter.


Why bigger than a .308?????? 
My 30-06 Ackley IMp has 3421ft pounds energy at muzzle my 300WBY has 4317ft pounds energy at muzzle. For North American game. All NA game the .300WBY is a Thumper. Period. I will send you pics of the largest girth measured Polar Bear taken in 10 years. Was shoot this May by a friend from Pa. with a Blaser .300WBY with a 180 X. The only thing heavier in NA is a Bison and they are normally head/neck shot a close range. A friend north of here raises them and slaughters them with his .270. Same thing he used when he drew his Moose permit 2 years ago. 


As for Africa the 300WBY was at one time a favored Buff cropping gun. Rhino and Elephant are nearly a non issue. Hippo are head shot with a .243 , same with a Croc. Leopard are lighter and daintier than NA deer. The really big heavy tough Antelope ( Sable, Roan, Eland, etc....) are all easily handled with a 300WBY. There are some energy requirements for some game sizes but that is normally well below the 300WBY level. I think something like 2400 foot pounds energy. Like a 270 Win. I know of no country with a caliber requirement like Kenya did. I know for sure that in Zim and Zambia that there are lots of Buff taken with .30'06's on up. Tanzania may have a a .375 for Buff and Elephant but I am not positive. Namib, SA, Moz, West Africa, none of them have it.

06 Ackley imp 2926fps .732"


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## Rootsy (Nov 1, 2006)

whew man you guys all are entirely too undergunned... Don't you know that there are bionic elk breeding out there???? Anything less than an RPG with LASER guidance is bloody useless... :lol::lol::lol:

270 is plenty if that is what you have... don't let anyone fool you. Just pick the right bullet for the job and learn to put it where it needs to go, time after time until it is second nature.

If it was me and there was a chance of extended shots i'd be humping my 280 Rem... 

Otherwise I just muddle along with me mediocre 35 Whelen AI for those genetically mutated xtra tough michigan whitetail... how dare that doe I popped last year stumble 10 yards before doing a face plant... Oh the atrocities...


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## deerslayer#1 (Nov 8, 2004)

DTrain said:


> I need some information on the &#8220;right&#8221; caliber for elk. I might have the opportunity to go out west next year elk / mule deer hunting.
> 
> I have Ruger M77 in .270 Winchester with a Bushnell Elite 3200 (w/ rainguard) scope that I use for deer. I also have a Marlin 30/30.
> 
> ...


Says you "MIGHT" have the opportunity. So, I wouldn't be buying a new rifle just yet, unless you just want a new rifle of course. 
I have seen elk killed with 243's, with one shot. It all depends on where out west you might be going, and how high up? Some places your going to be fine with your 270, and some your going to be limited with that rifle. Personally, I would go prepared for anything if you have the resources. Dont overlook the 30-378, it comes with a brake on it and kicks less than the 270. It has more energy at 400 yards than most at the muzzle. Also the numbers look a little better than the 300 weatherby mag. lol


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

i really couldn't care less how much "energy" you guys want to post - unless its quantified with frontal area, sectional density, and bullet construction (coupled with operational speed) it means NOTHING.

why bigger than the 308?

cause bigger holes kill more reliably.

you can quote to me how many animals have been shot with how many different bores, and i don't doubt your facts.

but big, deep holes kill more reliably. 

really, sometimes i think its a competition nowadays to see how big an animal can be killed with the least amount of bore size.

let me clue you in on something - just about any caliber will kill any game when employed in the right way. so don't bother sending any pictures with of game shot with "XYZ" caliber. i believe it.

why the debate over caliber? 

degree of dead. some guys don't care if their quarry runs 50 yards and drops dead. then again, some guys hunt next to a swamp where retrieval is difficult. or hunt dangerous game. whatever. but they want as good of a chance as possible that the animal will lay down where its shot. some would look at it and say, "who cares? dead is dead." and they're right to a degree. but that's why there's so much debate over the right caliber, because so many damned calibers will kill game!


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## beartooth (Feb 14, 2007)

rzdrmh said:


> i really couldn't care less how much "energy" you guys want to post - unless its quantified with frontal area, sectional density, and bullet construction (coupled with operational speed) it means NOTHING.
> 
> why bigger than the 308?
> 
> ...


We know you could care less and it is evident that you do not know what you are talking about. It is like most of your post you are just a know it all and it shows and bigger holes don't translate into killing more reliably.  Give it up, you are so boring and predictable Can't wait for your comments, should we take out our note books professor:lol::lol:


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

C'mon guys, this is a silly argument. Different strokes for different folks and there is no "right" answer, just a lot of varying opinions.

Group hug time.  :lol:


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## tgafish (Jan 19, 2001)

DTrain said:


> I need some information on the right caliber for elk. I might have the opportunity to go out west next year elk / mule deer hunting.
> 
> I have Ruger M77 in .270 Winchester with a Bushnell Elite 3200 (w/ rainguard) scope that I use for deer. I also have a Marlin 30/30.
> 
> ...


As others have said. Take the .270 and spend the money on some glass. Every bull I've shot with a .270 has died and was recovered. Over the course of 7 years out west I heard of a few guys blowing legs and guts out of elk with the big mags. Every .270 hunter that came out didn't lose an elk. Now I'm sure that has everything to do with the hunter and not the rifle but you get the pic. Don't fix what isn't broken.


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## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

I think there are some bored people here.


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## beartooth (Feb 14, 2007)

QuakrTrakr said:


> I think there are some bored people here.


Yep, you are probably right QuakrTrakr! I should have not come down so hard. Sorry, rzdrmh I will just have to ignore what I don't believe is right and not be so passionate about it.


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## DTrain (Mar 16, 2005)

tgafish,
By glass you mean good bino's right?


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

i'm sure that terminal ballistics can be interpreted as boring, though predictable isn't quite the term i'd use..

on second thought, maybe this "energy" thing has got some merit. yes.. maybe i should focus on energy...

maybe i should take that 1 lb water balloon hunting this year, knowing that if i throw it 80 foot per second i can get 99.5 ft/lbs of energy... far better than the meager 52.87 ft/lbs of energy produced by my 450 grain arrow traveling 230 fps.. 

yeah, energy.. that's the ticket..


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

rzdrmh said:


> i'm sure that terminal ballistics can be interpreted as boring, though predictable isn't quite the term i'd use..
> 
> on second thought, maybe this "energy" thing has got some merit. yes.. maybe i should focus on energy...
> 
> ...


Slide rule and calculator down. The calculators smoking!:lol: Or Ill make your day and.........Take the 243 out with an X bullet and shoot that mangey old elk!!


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

Huntsman27 said:


> Slide rule and calculator down. The calculators smoking!:lol: Or Ill make your day and.........Take the 243 out with an X bullet and shoot that mangey old elk!!



heck no, i'm sold, huntsman! bow at the altar of *ENERGY*!

that 243 sounds like just the ticket!!!


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## Rustyaxecamp (Mar 1, 2005)

Back to DTrains question..... If you take your 30-30 as a "backup" gun (should you happen to back the truck over your 270), I would pick Federal Premium loads with Nosler Partitions over the Leverevelutions.


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## beartooth (Feb 14, 2007)

rzdrmh said:


> heck no, i'm sold, huntsman! bow at the altar of *ENERGY*!
> 
> that 243 sounds like just the ticket!!!



I can't believe I am even taking time to say this but why not have a balance of energy and momentum?? I think the 30 cal from 06 up gives just that. There is no need to throw the baby out with the bath water. SD is not everything as is coeificent is not everything and momentum and energy are not everything. The 300Mag really gives a good balance of momentum, energy, and are very flat shooting as well as penetrate very deep depending on bullet construction. And there is so much to choose from in the 30 cal bullet selection.


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## DTrain (Mar 16, 2005)

Duly noted Erik! Thanks


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## ID-Birddog (Mar 9, 2004)

YAWN! Here we go again, what's the "magic" caliber for wapiti?

It's whatever you can shoot accurately enough to place bullet where you want it to go. It's a rifle one knows well and has shot it a lot. On top of that, the shooter knows how to accurately range the target, dope the wind and slope, and dope the elevation. 

I think the .270 is fine, lots have been shot here with them. I am currently using a 7mm-08 on just about everything because this rifle is so damn accurate. 
I have used a .30-06 plenty of times over the years on just about everything the western states have to offer. My girlfriend has killed several elk with her .243. (rz, do not even start this time, as we discussed last time she has still killed more western big game animals than you and your theories have)

If this is going to be a once in a lifetime hunt, then why spend extra money on another gun? (unless you are like me and buying guns is always fun)
Get good glass, get in shape, and practice shooting. Shoot off of sticks, your back pack, trees, etc. When you have the positions down and are hitting where you want, add this exercise. sprint 100 yards, turn and sprint back. Give yourself 10 seconds to get in position, get on target, settle down and get a shot off. 

What you can do with a rifle is more important than what the caliber is. Every year here when I pack elk out for people with my horses, someone without fail has an elk (usually cow) with old bullet wounds in their ***** ends because some dumas thought he could take a 500+ yard shot because he had the latest, greatest, supermag. If you have not ever shot at range X, then you have no business shooting at animals at that range. From personal observations, I would say 80% of hunters should not shoot beyond 300 yards.

Just my take.


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## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

ID-Birddog said:


> YAWN! Here we go again, what's the "magic" caliber for wapiti?
> 
> .


What's the magic caliber for a sasquatch? Sorry, with all the sasquatch news lately, I'm hoping there's enough breeding pairs to open a season.


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## ID-Birddog (Mar 9, 2004)

wapiti is what certain native tribes called elk in this country, if that was what you were referring to. However, for Sasquatch, I would opt for the .408 Chey Tec. Awesome weapon, we were hitting basketball sized rocks beyond 2000 meters with the thing. No wonder the enemy in the middle east is terrified of the system and has hefty bounties on our snipers.


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## NoWake (Feb 7, 2006)

Anyone see that guy from GAMO on TV shoot that hog with an air rifle? :evilsmile


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

QuakrTrakr said:


> What's the magic caliber for a sasquatch? Sorry, with all the sasquatch news lately, I'm hoping there's enough breeding pairs to open a season.


Those 50s have a nice kick to them. Woodchucksniper had a 36in barrel set up on an AR15 lower.....about 12-13 rounds was the most I would shoot at a comfortable bench. Oh the power!!!


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## Violator22 (Nov 10, 2004)

I've been living out here since 96, I have seen everything from 243 all the way up to 375 H&H's, it is all about shot placement, the BS that you need a big rifle is exactly that. You know how many time I see guys come to the range out here and shoot their Elk rifles strictly form the bench, about 40% of them, and they all use those wonderful recoil reducing rifle holders. I asked one guy if he ever shot off hand, he actually said "What For" I'll have pletny of places to rest my rifle. He was shooting a 300 Win Mag, I got him to shoot it off hand and he couldn't hit the target at 100 yards without his precious bench rest. Talkiing to a lot of guides out here, they are actually happy to see guys show up with 270's, 280's, 30-06's and 7mm-08's. They say the guys carrying those can actually shoot. So for all of you that suffer magnumitis, have at it, I'll stick with my 303 and 300 Savage for Elk, I know it gets the job done within my limits. Les


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## captjimtc (Aug 10, 2005)

beartooth said:


> Yep, you are probably right QuakrTrakr! I should have not come down so hard. Sorry, rzdrmh I will just have to ignore what I don't believe is right and not be so passionate about it.


Well I'm with you on the .300. I'd rather be over gunned than under gunned when that megarack steps out at 400+ and your sitting holding a .270. :yikes: Might as well throw it the dirt or better yet use it to scare away the wolves as they chew your trophy to pieces.


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## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

captjimtc said:


> Well I'm with you on the .300. I'd rather be over gunned than under gunned when that megarack steps out at 400+ and your sitting holding a .270. :yikes: Might as well throw it the dirt or better yet use it to scare away the wolves as they chew your trophy to pieces.


A .270 will shoot 400 yards, no problem. Heck, my buddy's got his 243 zerod at 300 yards. But, if I had the choice, I'd take the mag.


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## tgafish (Jan 19, 2001)

DTrain said:


> tgafish,
> By glass you mean good bino's right?


Yes. And possibly a spotting scope for the mulies. Can't hunt what you can't see and most of your time will be spent glassing and walking


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

QuakrTrakr said:


> A .270 will shoot 400 yards, no problem. Heck, my buddy's got his 243 zerod at 300 yards. But, if I had the choice, I'd take the mag.


so close! Its so hard to hit a target that big! Bahahahah!


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

captjimtc said:


> Well I'm with you on the .300. I'd rather be over gunned than under gunned when that megarack steps out at 400+ and your sitting holding a .270. :yikes: Might as well throw it the dirt or better yet use it to scare away the wolves as they chew your trophy to pieces.


I shoot thousands of rounds through my rifles in the 7-8 months of the year I shoot. I could make that 400 yard shot with a 270, 280 or '06. The problem here is not really whether you have a 270 or a 300 RUM but simply does the hunter have the skills to make it? Many, if not most don't...do you? Unfortunately too many believe their skills are much better than they are. Too many believe that if they take a 300 mag of some sort, it automatically enables them to make a 400+ yard shot. It doesn't. What enables them is putting time behind the gun they are taking, learning the ballistics and becoming familiar with it. This requires practice and also practice from field expediant positions. No amount of extra power in a firearm will replace this.


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## Nick Adams (Mar 10, 2005)

M1Garand said:


> Unfortunately too many believe their skills are much better than they are.


Everyone who thinks they are a good rifleman should head up to Camp Grayling and shoot a couple of rounds of Hunter Class, High-Power Metallic Silhouette.

If you can consistently drop 75% or more of the Turkeys and the Rams, I'll be the first to admit that you are good. I can't do it, not even on the 1/5th scale 22lr silhouette course.

-na


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

Nick Adams said:


> Everyone who thinks they are a good rifleman should head up to Camp Grayling and shoot a couple of rounds of Hunter Class, High-Power Metallic Silhouette.
> 
> If you can consistently drop 75% or more of the Turkeys and the Rams, I'll be the first to admit that you are good. I can't do it, not even on the 1/5th scale 22lr silhouette course.
> 
> -na


That would be a good time and a great challenge. While I actually never shot in it, I've been up there when it was going on and it looked like a blast. Have you shot in many of them and with your cast bullets?


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

Nick Adams said:


> Everyone who thinks they are a good rifleman should head up to Camp Grayling and shoot a couple of rounds of Hunter Class, High-Power Metallic Silhouette.
> 
> If you can consistently drop 75% or more of the Turkeys and the Rams, I'll be the first to admit that you are good. I can't do it, not even on the 1/5th scale 22lr silhouette course.
> 
> -na


Reactive Prairie dogs at 400---and beyond. No mistaking a hit!


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## DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI (Sep 23, 2002)

the caliber to shoot would be the one that you can place that bullet in the vitals at any distance you shoot and every time, period. if you can't do that then don't use it, the game you're after deserves NO LESS.


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## Nick Adams (Mar 10, 2005)

M1Garand said:


> Have you shot in many of them and with your cast bullets?


No. I have shot high power a couple of times in California many years ago. I have never shot high power at Grayling. 

I have my own set of the 5th scale 22lr targets. I shoot that quite a bit.

-na


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

beartooth said:


> I can't believe I am even taking time to say this but why not have a balance of energy and momentum?? I think the 30 cal from 06 up gives just that. There is no need to throw the baby out with the bath water. SD is not everything as is coeificent is not everything and momentum and energy are not everything. The 300Mag really gives a good balance of momentum, energy, and are very flat shooting as well as penetrate very deep depending on bullet construction. And there is so much to choose from in the 30 cal bullet selection.


interesting.. so you do agree that one factor is not enough to judge a caliber by? like, when i stated a few posts back that energy not quantified with frontal area, sectional density, and bullet construction (coupled with operational speed), etc, means nothing?

huh.. 

well, now that you've got your mind wrapped around it a little better, maybe we can refrain from the insults... 

and btw, if you'll go back earlier in the thread, you'll see that i found the 270 and the 06 to be perfectly acceptable elk rounds. if i went on an elk hunt today, _my 06 would be with me_. i merely stated that if i were to _buy_ another rifle, it would be bigger than a 308. so.. i'm not throwing anything out with the bath water.. maybe now that i've posted it for the 4th time it will be apparent. 

it does make me smile a little, when its argued that a 30 cal is a better elk gun that a 338. i'd like to see that debated over on accuratereloading.com. heck the rest of the world doesn't even consider the 338 to be a big bore!

ah well, its like my hunting partner says (who's headed up to BC for another elk hunt next month with his 338) - "the 06 is just right for elk. the 338 is just in case."


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

Violator22 said:


> I've been living out here since 96, I have seen everything from 243 all the way up to 375 H&H's, it is all about shot placement, the BS that you need a big rifle is exactly that. You know how many time I see guys come to the range out here and shoot their Elk rifles strictly form the bench, about 40% of them, and they all use those wonderful recoil reducing rifle holders. I asked one guy if he ever shot off hand, he actually said "What For" I'll have pletny of places to rest my rifle. He was shooting a 300 Win Mag, I got him to shoot it off hand and he couldn't hit the target at 100 yards without his precious bench rest. Talkiing to a lot of guides out here, they are actually happy to see guys show up with 270's, 280's, 30-06's and 7mm-08's. They say the guys carrying those can actually shoot. So for all of you that suffer magnumitis, have at it, I'll stick with my 303 and 300 Savage for Elk, I know it gets the job done within my limits. Les



i've ALWAYS advocated shooting the largest bore that you can shoot, that meets your distance requirements.

if that's the 270/280/30-06, etc, so be it - they are great rounds. but the hunter that can shoot the 338, he'll be better off for it.

and i FIRMLY believe that anyone that can accurately shoot a 180 grain bullet @ 2700 fps from a 30-06 in a 7 lb rifle, can accurately shoot a 225 grain bullet from a 338 win mag @ 2700 fps, in an 8.5 lb rifle. i'd wager that most who believe that the 338 win mag is a "hammer" haven't actually shot one. (don't get me wrong, you can load it hot and heavy. but the moderate loads are fine.)

the question becomes.. do you want to carry an extra 1.5 lbs. 

and can you _really_ shoot the 06 without a bench? as you said, and i agree, many spend too much time on the bench.


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## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

Most of it comes down to knowing your weapon. Know how to shoot on sitting, prone, against a tree, off sticks, using a bipod, etc. Real hunting positions. Practice x3!


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## beartooth (Feb 14, 2007)

rzdrmh said:


> interesting.. so you do agree that one factor is not enough to judge a caliber by? like, when i stated a few posts back that energy not quantified with frontal area, sectional density, and bullet construction (coupled with operational speed), etc, means nothing?
> 
> huh..
> 
> ...


Your point is made and I won't insult you again I think I have already apologized but will again. I own a 338win mag Ruger have used it and I am only saying this with my experience that it does not devastate game when I hit it like my 300WBY does. Of course dead is dead.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

M1Garand said:


> I shoot thousands of rounds through my rifles in the 7-8 months of the year I shoot. I could make that 400 yard shot with a 270, 280 or '06. The problem here is not really whether you have a 270 or a 300 RUM but simply does the hunter have the skills to make it? Many, if not most don't...do you? Unfortunately too many believe their skills are much better than they are. Too many believe that if they take a 300 mag of some sort, it automatically enables them to make a 400+ yard shot. It doesn't. What enables them is putting time behind the gun they are taking, learning the ballistics and becoming familiar with it. This requires practice and also practice from field expediant positions. No amount of extra power in a firearm will replace this.



BINGO!!! Exactly, one can't purchase skill or common sense. 
Having worked at the gun club range during public site in days over the years proves this fact year in and year out!


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## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

Swamp Monster said:


> BINGO!!! Exactly, one can't purchase skill or common sense.
> Having worked at the gun club range during public site in days over the years proves this fact year in and year out!


I won't go to a range. I've seen to many crazy things in the past.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

QuakrTrakr said:


> I won't go to a range. I've seen to many crazy things in the past.


Hence the reason at public site in days to have numerous range officers on duty!! My view of the common one time a year shooter is not all that high when it comes to firearms knowledge, ability, and safety. Sad to say, but I call it like I see it.


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## ID-Birddog (Mar 9, 2004)

What's the longest rifle range most eastern guys have access too? I bet 300 is considered a "long range" there. I have an old National Guard near me in a canyon that has berms to 600 and I have extened a portion of it to beyond 1000.
Because it's in a canyon, we do real world shooting where either the target is up on a steep hill or the shooter is up on the hill shooting down. Knowing your slope dope is very importent. Doping your wind takes a lot of practice. 
As I stated earlier, just because your latest, greatest, supermag is capable of long range shooting, does not mean the shooter is. 
300 is the max range for 80% of the hunters who come out here.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

The average public or private gun club range distance in this state is 100 yards. There are a number of places though that have long yardage ranges. Remember, a good portion of the state is slug only for our biggame hunting...300 yard ranges aren't really necessary. Now, those of us that shoot a lot, typically have access to areas that allow us to shoot far greater distances than are ever needed in the field. But, it's fun, challenging, and important at the same time. 

My experience with people on the public ranges is that if they are good at 50 or 100, they automatically think the gun (and shooter) is good a few football fields away because the ballistics are printed right there on the box and thats proof enough for them!


Overall though, long range in this state can take on different meanings. For those in the shotgun only zone, 125 yards and beyond can be long range. Up north on a powerline cut or a 300 acre potato field, 350 yards might be considered long. All depends where and how your hunting.


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## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

I hunt open farm fields where 500+ yard shots present themselves. Now, I don't attempt those, beyond my ability. But we practice out there and we'll shoot 500 at paper. I've taken deer at 300. But, like I said before, Practice, Practice, Practice.


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

Swamp Monster said:


> Hence the reason at public site in days to have numerous range officers on duty!! My view of the common one time a year shooter is not all that high when it comes to firearms knowledge, ability, and safety. Sad to say, but I call it like I see it.


I usually avoid my range right before sight in as there are some nuts there. I can't believe some are actually allowed out with firearms the way they handle them. The cool thing is at my range, I have it to myself about 95% of the time. I guess it shows that many don't shoot much except for sight in and some don't even do that.


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

ID-Birddog said:


> What's the longest rifle range most eastern guys have access too? I bet 300 is considered a "long range" there. I have an old National Guard near me in a canyon that has berms to 600 and I have extened a portion of it to beyond 1000.
> Because it's in a canyon, we do real world shooting where either the target is up on a steep hill or the shooter is up on the hill shooting down. Knowing your slope dope is very importent. Doping your wind takes a lot of practice.
> As I stated earlier, just because your latest, greatest, supermag is capable of long range shooting, does not mean the shooter is.
> 300 is the max range for 80% of the hunters who come out here.


My range goes to 300 (it's an old army range) and on the farm I can shoot to probably 7-800 but I've really no need to here. The farthest I've taken a deer is about 250...most others were much less. There is the potential to take them at those distances if I wanted to try and take a shot at one at that distance but I don't and don't see a need to. If I were to head out west somewhere to hunt where much farther ranges were possible, I'd do some practice at the farm at some longer ranges. Distance is fairly easy, it's the wind that's tricky.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Out west, I am not really able to score a deer very accurately past 200yds. Farther than 200yds, finds me saying "hmm, 5 on one side, close to the ears, it'll do". In reality sizing a deer at long distance is a crap shoot for me. I've taken deer in Michigan at 400yds where if it is a racked buck it is fair game, but when size matters, I have never taken a deer over 300yds and even then, at least for me, it is about a 50/50 shot that it is a 150" deer vs a 130" deer. So although capable of making some far shots, I'm limited more by distance I can judge deer by rather than distance I can make a shot.


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## PA BUCK 2 (Oct 17, 2006)

Sounds like people have just about covered this one... I took my 06 on my trip and it performed well with 180 grain hornady bullets. My bull was just under 100 yards trotting and I hit him in the front left shoulder. Broke both shoulders and caused a tremendous amount of damage to the chest cavity. He flipped at the shot and slide to a stop and never moved. On the same trip- my buddy shot a 5x6 at 200 yards with his 7mm 08. The bull dropped at the shot and did not move a step.

My binos were Nikon 8X40s, and I also had a Nikon rangefinder that was nice to have. I saw a bunch of elk, moose and muleys and it was much different judging distance out there.....

Good luck.


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## beartooth (Feb 14, 2007)

PA BUCK 2 said:


> Sounds like people have just about covered this one... I took my 06 on my trip and it performed well with 180 grain hornady bullets. My bull was just under 100 yards trotting and I hit him in the front left shoulder. Broke both shoulders and caused a tremendous amount of damage to the chest cavity. He flipped at the shot and slide to a stop and never moved. On the same trip- my buddy shot a 5x6 at 200 yards with his 7mm 08. The bull dropped at the shot and did not move a step.
> 
> My binos were Nikon 8X40s, and I also had a Nikon rangefinder that was nice to have. I saw a bunch of elk, moose and muleys and it was much different judging distance out there.....
> 
> Good luck.


good post, shows you have been there and know what you are talking about. thanks I liked it


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

TSS Caddis said:


> Out west, I am not really able to score a deer very accurately past 200yds. Farther than 200yds, finds me saying "hmm, 5 on one side, close to the ears, it'll do". In reality sizing a deer at long distance is a crap shoot for me. I've taken deer in Michigan at 400yds where if it is a racked buck it is fair game, but when size matters, I have never taken a deer over 300yds and even then, at least for me, it is about a 50/50 shot that it is a 150" deer vs a 130" deer. So although capable of making some far shots, I'm limited more by distance I can judge deer by rather than distance I can make a shot.


to help you with that?


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## jayzbird (May 19, 2005)

Nobody asked how far his average shot will be in yardage???? At least I don't think after 6 pages???? I think I read almost every one.....I think because he said "out west" everyone assumed long ranges. I am also assuming your being guided??? Best thing is to ask him. What he thinks of the rifle and caliber and optics you're going to use???? What ranges are the elk are going to be at???? Heck, I've been twice and never shot one over 125 yards. At that range, what about the .35's??? 35 Remington? .358 Win.? .35 Whelen? Or a .444 Marlin??? .450 Marlin??? Or the the classic .45/70??? I'm sure these will knock an elk down with no problems at shorter ranges. And as far as recoil you can get the .44 and .45's ported..... Do yourself a favor and ask as many questions as possible....and all these will do for bear, maybe your next hunt???? I shot my first elk with a .338 at 105 yards, the second time I went with the same guide.....a .444 Marlin at 80 yards. Isn't it supposed to be more challenging to sneak up close???? I just don't see the fun in shooting em way out.....make it a challenge and get in close!!!!!


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

he`d have a pretty good idea. Guess it all depends on the terrain your presented with. On the flip side taking one of the short range rainbow trajectory guns could handicap you IF the elk shows at long range too.


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## beartooth (Feb 14, 2007)

QuakrTrakr said:


> 416 Rigby will git-er-done!


QuakrTrakr, it will be hear by the end of next week or the first part of the following week. Yes I am a complete battery Weatherby man. 257WBY, 300WBY and now a 416WBY. Weatherby Mark V Deluxe, 416 Weatherby Magnum with factory accubrake and rings/bases. It was made in Japan. Rifle is in great shape with exceptional wood. I have not seen a Mark V Deluxe Japan made model w/26" barrel (28" with brake) in much better shape. NRA rating would is 98%+. I know it is wood but I need some wood in one of my three Weatherby's. Yes, I am going to finally get to Alaska and I know it will be wet, but the wood will give me the warm feeling and the as BigHorn said, "the latest wonder oil will protect it."


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## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

I feel sorry for your shoulder Bear!!:lol: That would be like taking a Corvette to a mudbog!:lol: I guess I've seen 4WD Corvettes too. I think jayzbird needs to ease off on the !!!!!! and the ???????. He might hurt himself!!!!! Take er ez.  Just teasing jayzbird. We're all just rambling on in here. No specific rules of conversation.


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

I think he shoots them with the synthetic [you know, the ugly gun] then pulls out the props and displays the wood one for pictures.
Interestingly enough the wife asked this question "Why do you guys [hunters] always lay your guns on the game for pictures"? I pondered a moment and told her...."well, as we get older we forget things and it reminds us which caliber goes with the story".........:lol:


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

jayzbird said:


> Nobody asked how far his average shot will be in yardage???? At least I don't think after 6 pages???? I think I read almost every one.....I think because he said "out west" everyone assumed long ranges. I am also assuming your being guided??? Best thing is to ask him. What he thinks of the rifle and caliber and optics you're going to use???? What ranges are the elk are going to be at???? Heck, I've been twice and never shot one over 125 yards. At that range, what about the .35's??? 35 Remington? .358 Win.? .35 Whelen? Or a .444 Marlin??? .450 Marlin??? Or the the classic .45/70??? I'm sure these will knock an elk down with no problems at shorter ranges. And as far as recoil you can get the .44 and .45's ported..... Do yourself a favor and ask as many questions as possible....and all these will do for bear, maybe your next hunt???? I shot my first elk with a .338 at 105 yards, the second time I went with the same guide.....a .444 Marlin at 80 yards. Isn't it supposed to be more challenging to sneak up close???? I just don't see the fun in shooting em way out.....make it a challenge and get in close!!!!!


If this is his first hunt, how will he have a clue how far he'll have to shoot?
The terrain varies out there so much you could have a 15 yardmax shot one minute and the next 500+.

The original question asked if a .270 would be adequate, and you'll see my reply was yes.

Just google - .270 for elk - and you'll get a couple of weeks worth of reading.


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## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

Huntsman27 said:


> Interestingly enough the wife asked this question "Why do you guys [hunters] always lay your guns on the game for pictures"? I pondered a moment and told her...."well, as we get older we forget things and it reminds us which caliber goes with the story".........:lol:


I've wondered that myself. I do it cause I'm geeked and put the gun down at the closest safest spot. I've leaned guns against trees before only to have them fall over cause I was too geeked and didn't pay close enough attention to what the heck I was doing. Seems most every time I drop a gun, or tip one over, I throw the scope outta whack.


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## jayzbird (May 19, 2005)

FREEPOP said:


> If this is his first hunt, how will he have a clue how far he'll have to shoot?
> The terrain varies out there so much you could have a 15 yardmax shot one minute and the next 500+.
> 
> The original question asked if a .270 would be adequate, and you'll see my reply was yes.
> ...


That's where I said the best thing to do is ask as many questions you can think and when you run out ask some more. Talking to the guide is the best thing he could do. I'm sure the guide will have an idea, if not, I would be changing guides. Assuming he is using one.And yes, a .270 is adequate, but on his first elk hunt, I'd use something larger due to inexperience. I would wait til you have a few under your belt before you try with a .270. Just my opinion.


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## QuakrTrakr (Apr 4, 2001)

I agree jayz. First hunt, I'd try to eliminate any newby mistakes. Just like shooting a bow, you're not gonna start out on your first hunt shooting 50 yards. Know your limitations.


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## jayzbird (May 19, 2005)

QuakrTrakr said:


> I agree jayz. First hunt, I'd try to eliminate any newby mistakes. Just like shooting a bow, you're not gonna start out on your first hunt shooting 50 yards. Know your limitations.


Hey, and if you'll notice i got rid of all the ???????, and !!!!!!!!'s. Lol


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