# Split



## West side shooter (Jan 22, 2015)

Decided to get a couple days in with the new layout this weekend. Inland lake on Saturday and the big water today. Worked out pretty well, today was 9 shooters in 2 boats.


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## roger15055 (Dec 27, 2011)

Divers Down I was down there this afternoon too. There was about a half dozen boats out. I watched some Boats coming in I was a little worried and I was talking to a father and son that I have talked to there over the years. They got a couple said there were a ton of birds flying but couldn’t get them to swing in. Then the DNR showed up checking licenses. I wasn’t sure what time shooting ended but seemed like I heard some late shooting . Time for me to start thinking about crow season!


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

fsamie1 said:


> Nothing like the first day at downriver. what a difference a day makes. all the ducks just disappeared. hunted the same spot as yesterday and encounter another group that stayed there overnight. They thought since they were there all night, they own the whole place and did not like us setup way away from them. shot a decoying drake, missed a swimmer, and were not ready for two passing mallards. Ducks were high and skittish. Saw lots of migrating ducks with V formation flying south. Wonder what happened to yesterday ducks with all marsh frozen. So sad the season ended and going through withdrawal already. Hopefully, there is a season date change next year with warmer temperature we are having in November. We need more days in December and early January. Stay safe and have a great new year.


I can assure there will be not be anymore days in December next year.


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## Fowl Play (Nov 30, 2014)

And why is that Craigrh13?


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## Swamp Boss (Mar 14, 2003)

You got it Roger. Hunting crows is a great way to fill the wing shooting fix. Plus it is is quite a challenge! Great way to teach new waterfowlers the concept of staying still, camouflage, lead etc...


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## AaronJohn (Oct 18, 2015)

ajkulish said:


> Nope, didnt happen. Didnt you see all the posts here in early november about how the migration had passed?


Anybody who says the migration done is just looking for an excuse to stay home.


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## cvg3 (Nov 27, 2015)

You want some great wing shooting fun in the off season, along with staying still and hidden go pigeon hunting


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## fsamie1 (Mar 8, 2008)

what over pass bridge did you hunt?  They must be delicious. how do you clean and cook them? do they taste like Cornish hen at Kroger?


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Buddy shoots every one that comes in while duck hunting. Prefers them to mallards.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> Buddy shoots every one that comes in while duck hunting. Prefers them to mallards.


i do too. lol. will shoot them first every time. usually come with a band.


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## nichola8 (Oct 7, 2013)

Well here's my season wrap up.....hunted a total of 4 times the entire season, hard to get out with two little ones and the career. First two trips resulted in no shots for me and only 2 birds between a party of 4 both times. I took last season off (first time since I started in 2008) to focus more on fall fishing, so I was really excited to start back up this season.

3rd trip was a flat wind day for the big lake, as I purchased a 23' walk around two years ago, I relied on a friend and his wife who own a tiller 17' mod-v. There first time sea duck hunting. We stroll out and set my decoys, ran 3 long lines, dozen birds on each, 2 robos and anchor off, about 15 yards away. Finished that day with a 3 person limit, 4 of which where white wings, one of which was my first drake (however he was immature). Still hunting down my stud white wing.

Now the late split.....didn't really have plans as I was on call and busy with the family. Ended up getting a call Saturday from a buddy that found birds close to home. My wife and I, his wife and him all meet at the launch Sunday morning, nobody's there. We break 40' of ice and set up 2 longlines, 3 dozen diver singles, 2 dozen mallards and 2 dozen geese. Around 830 the goldeneyes start moving. Ended the day with 7 goldeneyes and 2 mallards. Picked up around 1030 as we had other obligations and as always 2 geese come in on the deck and locked up. We watched them sail in and flare at 50 yards.

Good end of the year for our little party, got a new hunting couple, re-ignited my fire and decided that I am definitely a diver hunter after my 12 years of service. used to have prime private land hunts for mallards/pins/blacks and woodies, but got sick of the drama. Sure love my divers and sea ducks, taste fine to me, love running long lines, love the speed of the hunt, love the weather and especially love the birds. Can't wait for next season as we are going to travel and focus solely on divers and sea ducks.

No I'm not going to sell my 4 dozen full body geese, layout blinds and puddle decoys.....still got to have my options, and what fun is waterfowling without having a shed jam packed with gear for any situation.

Was fun watching the posts and living through everyone for the majority of the season.


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## fsamie1 (Mar 8, 2008)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> i do too. lol. will shoot them first every time. usually come with a band.


Hey Kid, wonder how you Jeni did for he split? Was Shia river frozen? Craig13 probably got skunk, no pictures posted.


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## fsamie1 (Mar 8, 2008)

craigrh13 said:


> I can assure there will be not be anymore days in December next year.


If real duck hunters set the season dates, it will happen. We should have 3 different times for SE Michigan. 1. local ducks and blue wing teal (2 weeks) 2. migrating ducks (3 weeks) 3. ice time (3 weeks). BTW, how did you do last weekend?


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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

fsamie1 said:


> If real duck hunters set the season dates, it will happen. We should have 3 different times for SE Michigan. 1. local ducks and blue wing teal (2 weeks) 2. migrating ducks (3 weeks) 3. ice time (3 weeks). BTW, how did you do last weekend?


Well, the season has been over a day, might as well start the 2021 season date debate...


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## fsamie1 (Mar 8, 2008)

Jerry Lamb said:


> Well, the season has been over a day, might as well start the 2021 season date debate...


Hey Jerry, I think DNR should give us next two weeks for lost duck hunting time. Why can't they adjust the dates based on migration pattern, be flexible.


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## Fowl Play (Nov 30, 2014)

The dates are fine. Some years better than others. You can keep chasing your tail like a dog and get no where moving the dates around. Every season presents different challenges. Adapt and overcome.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> i do too. lol. will shoot them first every time. usually come with a band.


Have way more pigeon bands than duck bands. I have pigeon decoys too.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

fsamie1 said:


> Hey Kid, wonder how you Jeni did for he split? Was Shia river frozen? Craig13 probably got skunk, no pictures posted.


guys shot some ducks up here. not many hunted. kinda normal for around here.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

fsamie1 said:


> If real duck hunters set the season dates, it will happen. We should have 3 different times for SE Michigan. 1. local ducks and blue wing teal (2 weeks) 2. migrating ducks (3 weeks) 3. ice time (3 weeks). BTW, how did you do last weekend?


I had my daughter all weekend. I didn’t even go. The spot and group I normally go with did ok. Bunch of divers. So I didn’t miss much.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Jerry Lamb said:


> Well, the season has been over a day, might as well start the 2021 season date debate...


Every year it’s the same. Pressure drops off, birds come out of hiding and are free to move wherever they want and people suddenly think the big push just got here. Every. Year.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

Zeboy said:


> What am I missing here??? You're telling us that the best two weeks for duck harvest in the South zone is the last week of September and the first week of October, yet I don't ever remember the South zone even being open at this time?? What am I missing here??? Makes me really question all of it.


See those numbers down there? Those represents weeks of the year.....Obviously they aren’t talking about september.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

I must be missing it too. Why are there green bars for south zone kills above two "(Sept)"? First week should be only red, second week red and blue, third week all zones as that's how the seasons roll.

Unless they superimposed the seasons in each zone over each other, being not noted and very misleading.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Peak duck numbers do not correspond with peak kill. Early ducks more dispersed and available to more hunters. As the season wears on the locals move to where they are not accessible, and the migrants tend to congregate as they come in at once, and aren't as available. Also, pressure drops way off.


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## fsamie1 (Mar 8, 2008)

Seems week numbers matches ok with the month. South zone showing so many ducks killed while season is not open yet does not make sense.


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## Urriah (Jul 26, 2013)

fsamie1 said:


> I disagree. A few local ducks shot in October are not the majority. If you pay attention to duck count in managed areas you would know when the peak migration is. You apparently have not broken any ice trying to get to open water. If we are only allowed one split, we should make late season one 2-3 weeks.


I'm well aware of when peak migration is. And it's definitely not in December. And if you want to go by managed area numbers (which some people don't like the DNR doing) October accounts for the majority of the harvest for all the east side managed areas in most years, even though there are less days in October than there are in November.

I break ice every year hunting to the very end, including this past weekend. And like just about every late split before it (including when it was 4 days a few years back) it was about a 4 hour hunt until every duck in the area remembered that guns are bad and took off for greener pastures.

The single largest predictor of diver numbers on St. Clair and Erie is weather. If the weather is mild when the birds come in in October and November, they'll get run off by fishermen and ding dongs ripping around the lake 'scouting'. If the weather is nasty and stays nasty, the birds will stay too. Ernie Kafcas had years of November aerial survey data showing this, as well as anecdotal evidence from pretty much anyone who hunts out there.

Just for the sake of argument, let's give you your one 2-3 week split. Where do you take 2 weeks from and where do you have it instead?


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

fsamie1 said:


> Seems week numbers matches ok with the month. South zone showing so many ducks killed while season is not open yet does not make sense.


You are smarter than this. At least I hope so.


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

You guys are over complicating the hell out of this simple graph. Just for an example here is weeks 41 and 42 in 2015.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

some of you need to get off the fantasy that the hunting is so great in december.

as a whole, it is very marginal in just about all of z3 except a few select areas. And like pointed out above, the split makes it good for a day or 2... sure we get some years where we have a soft december and you can hunt longer....but as a whole for MOST people, its a wash. 

all i hear is "I" could smoke the birds if we have more hunting in december....never a "we" in those claims....and when someone posts the "we" stats, they do not support their "I" argument.


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

fsamie1 said:


> Hey Jerry, I think DNR should give us next two weeks for lost duck hunting time. Why can't they adjust the dates based on migration pattern, be flexible.


samie

you need to call dnr to give them the dates of migrations for 2021, 2022 and 2023, since you seem to have the crystal ball! haha

or I can send them the dates one of my partners schedules his vacation for. he always takes vacation based upon last year's migration, and it becomes a sure thing that he never catches the migration using that as a basis

or I guess we can provide each duck with a daytimer with dates circled and labeled 'migrate today!'

in 60 years, there is only one sure thing I have seen - there will be a lull on my birthday, October 30, or I will be drawn in the bottom 5 on that date - haha


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## fsamie1 (Mar 8, 2008)

TheHighLIfe said:


> samie
> 
> you need to call dnr to give them the dates of migrations for 2021, 2022 and 2023, since you seem to have the crystal ball! haha
> 
> ...


I can only go with number of ducks in Harsens refuge. Seems like maximum was 15,000 during 1st 2 weeks of November. Usually Harsens count is 25000+, some years it approaches 50,000. So, in my opinion ducks did not stop here or they just flew south. Other observation was that the divers never arrived until the split in upper Erie. I like diver hunting so I like to have more days in late December.


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

You guys are over complicating the hell out of this simple graph. Just for an example here is weeks 41 and 42 in 2015. week 41, labeled September on the graph was in October in 2015


craigrh13 said:


> You guys are over complicating the hell out of this simple graph. Just for an example here is weeks 41 and 42 in 2015.
> View attachment 623877


craig

I see you active on these posts, and have found your comments to be helpful and insightful
TY 

but I have to call you on your sarcasm 'you are smarter than this'
I was also very confused about the graph

seems like cwac should be smarter than to label week 41 as being September 
that is mathematically impossible
if January 1 falls on the first day of some 'smoke and mirrors' weekly schedule (needing to have in hand to be able to properly interpret the graph), October would be week 39. if January 1 falls on the last day of this hidden schedule, and also during a leap year, October would still be in week 41 - only in leap year.
it doesn't appear that week 41 can ever fall in September mathematically
so for cwac to have a graph with week 41 labeled September... well, they should be smarter than that

I agree with you and the kid that December is overrated, unless you are targeting divers on big water, which can produce huge numbers. private lands are mostly dead, managed areas can be frozen up, in December 

what the graph might not account for is hunter hours. many hunters go out opening week/s when it is warm and close up shop when it gets cold. many hunters turn to deer hunting in the last 2 weeks of November. many hunters hunt private lands that hold birds for a week or so, until the birds migrate or congregate near refuges and safety zones, then call it a year

November is always my month of choice, from around the 4th thru the 22nd. but that timeframe wasn't that good this year for me.

I commend cwac for the changes made a few years ago, and the 2 day split, and consistent dates from year to year. it isn't broke, it doesn't need fixing. success is 'in the hands of mother nature', but the season always captures 'a migration or two' the way it is set up. a couple years ago, the 1st migration was around the opener. other years the 1st migration did not arrive until deer season. no one can predict migrations. 

I see guys (unfortunately working and forced to schedule vacations well in advance) set their dates to hunt and become disappointed when those dates are during a lull - and then want to change the season. actually, the solution is to retire! haha (kidding)

I do see the need to consider saginaw bay going to zone 2, as I recall way too many years of freeze up occurring well before the end of the zone 3 season.

but I think cwac is already addressing that

TY again for great work by cwac!


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

fsamie1 said:


> I can only go with number of ducks in Harsens refuge. Seems like maximum was 15,000 during 1st 2 weeks of November. Usually Harsens count is 25000+, some years it approaches 50,000. So, in my opinion ducks did not stop here or they just flew south. Other observation was that the divers never arrived until the split in upper Erie. I like diver hunting so I like to have more days in late December.



samie

are you still hitting the champagne?

I started hunting Harsen's Island in 1963, was there for the very first draw (in '77, I believe, give or take a year - party #121 of 124, drew 3rd)

35,000 is the most I recall, and that was probably in the 80s-90s - maybe once or twice since
25,000 is not the usual number there, it is usually the peak number for the year
they did report that number in the first half of November - lasted about 3 days

so.... just because you like to diver hunt on erie, and have a means to do so, you want cwac to bow down to you and screw the other 90% of hunters out of their prime time? haha

I wish you would take more of a global and unselfish view before you post on here, my friend

Happy New Year!!


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## fall ducks (Dec 15, 2008)

TheHighLIfe said:


> samie
> 
> are you still hitting the champagne?
> 
> ...


High


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## fsamie1 (Mar 8, 2008)

TheHighLIfe said:


> samie
> 
> are you still hitting the champagne?
> 
> ...


You beat me by 25 years hunting managed area, I started in 1992. I recall one year many ago, there was 50,000 ducks in the refuge during John Schaffer time. I am not tying to take prime time away from others. I am saying there is 1-2 weeks non-productive time before migrating ducks arrive. Also, there is 1-2 week near thanksgiving that refuge is either frozen or we are dealing with stale ducks. With that, we can move those days to December and January. Hopefully, Canada will let us in next year so my problem is solved. Happy new year.


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## TheHighLIfe (Sep 5, 2017)

fsamie1 said:


> You beat me by 25 years hunting managed area, I started in 1992. I recall one year many ago, there was 50,000 ducks in the refuge during John Schaffer time. I am not tying to take prime time away from others. I am saying there is 1-2 weeks non-productive time before migrating ducks arrive. Also, there is 1-2 week near thanksgiving that refuge is either frozen or we are dealing with stale ducks. With that, we can move those days to December and January. Hopefully, Canada will let us in next year so my problem is solved. Happy new year.



yes, hopefully you will be in canada next year - that will solve misport post problems too! haha

and yes, john schaffer certainly did have a way with numbers - his own way, and watch out if you confronted him publicly on his inaccuracies! haha

tired of his inaccuracies (and ego issues), I stopped going to the hiwa meetings. felt it was not a smart move to embarrass the guy in charge by proving his numbers to be absolute BS

if you change your statement to 'john s. said there were 50,000', rather than stating there indeed were 50,000, I can accept that


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## fsamie1 (Mar 8, 2008)

LOL, John said that.


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## Fowl Play (Nov 30, 2014)

I need to get the popcorn, this discussion is always entertaining.


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