# ?? for Jean



## marty (Jan 17, 2000)

Hi Jean Marty here . Wanted to pick your brain and see if I can get a couple answers. We've been told by everybody under the sun that TB spreads by baiting/feeding. All right here you go. A Co recently told me that 90% of alcona county still baits. For sure we all know that baiting/feeding still happens in the TB zone.

The ban was sucessfull in stopping large scale feeding but small bait piles are around. If all these years of feeding/baiting why hasn't the TB rate shot off the charts instead of going down???

Also wouldn't small piles be worse than big piles due to the closer contact that a large pile?? I'm thinking since the time and money spent by the state wouldn't it be easier to let people bait/feed with spin-type feeder with corn??

Why is the great majority of positives from the 452 ( hunt club country)??
Talking to local folks here hunters/processors we never had a positive in the SE corner of alcona county. If so it was so long ago nobody remembers anyway? Is there anyway to see where the nearest recent posiitive was located at? Say in the last 3-4 years?

I know you're busy at this time of year but whenever you can. I'll keep checking back on this thread. Thank you for your time........marty


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

I would be very surprised if Jean got into the bait controversy, you'd be better off directing this question to Steve Schmitt himself. Maybe she'll refer the question to him. 

But from what I've seen, they'll tell you that the rate of TB transmission is down because there are so many fewer deer now than there was in 1995, when the TB rate was high. Fewer deer to spread the bacteria to other deer. 

The fight to eradicate TB is being won, from what I've read, but we have to remember that all it takes is one deer to spread the disease-and until we've had that very low rate of transmission for several more years, I wouldn't think the DNR is going to change their course of action, either on baiting/feeding or on antlerless tags.


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## marty (Jan 17, 2000)

Linda G. said:


> I would be very surprised if Jean got into the bait controversy, you'd be better off directing this question to Steve Schmitt himself. Maybe she'll refer the question to him.
> 
> But from what I've seen, they'll tell you that the rate of TB transmission is down because there are so many fewer deer now than there was in 1995, when the TB rate was high. Fewer deer to spread the bacteria to other deer.
> 
> The fight to eradicate TB is being won, from what I've read, but we have to remember that all it takes is one deer to spread the disease-and until we've had that very low rate of transmission for several more years, I wouldn't think the DNR is going to change their course of action, either on baiting/feeding or on antlerless tags.


Exactly my point Linda with all the people feeding/baiting why hasn't the TB rate went off the charts. It's no secret that baiting and feeding is alive and well in the TB zone so why hasn't the rate went through the roof.  

As you say one deer also it only takes one cow to do the same thing  That's why it's called Bovine TB Also see if you know anybody that can verify this. Has there ever been an sucessfull eradication of TB in the wild or any other diseases??.........M


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## Fierkej (Dec 21, 2001)

Hi,
I have asked Elaine Carlson, MDNR biologist at Mio, for a reply to the baiting questions.
I have asked Bridget Patrick, the States Bovine TB Eradication Project Coordinator (MDCH, MDA & MDNR) in Lansing, for a reply to the question about why the great majority of positives are from the DMU 452 area. Graham Hickling's paper also answers this question, particularly starting on page 16. It is a .pdf at this web adress:
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/HicklingReport_no_cover_137212_7.pdf

I can answer the question about the positives from SE Alcona Co.
There have been 10 since 1997:
From Twn. 25N- Rng. 08E: 
*2 in 2001 *  1 had chest abscesses with the entire carcass submitted, 1 was a head submitted with abscesses in the lymph node.
From Twn. 26N- Rng. 07E:
*1 in 1997 *  head with abscesses in lymph node
*1 in 1998 * - head with abscesses in lymph node
*2 in 1999 *  both were heads with abscesses in lymph nodes
*1 in 2001 * - head with abscesses in lymph node
*3 in 2004 * - 2 had chest and/or lung abscesses with entire carcass submitted, 1 was a head with abscesses in the lymph node

The following is taken from a document written by Steve Schmitt, MDNR Wildlife veterinarian. The complete document is posted on our website at:
http://www.michigan.gov/emergingdiseases/0,1607,7-186-25804_25811-75930--,00.html
Strategies for eradication of TB from Michigan wildlife continue to focus on 1) reducing deer population densities to biological carrying capacity and 2) reducing artificial congregation of deer by restriction or elimination of baiting and feeding. These strategies have been implemented through provision of extra rifle seasons and unlimited antlerless deer permits and by prohibition or restriction of deer baiting and feeding. In the five county area most affected by TB, deer numbers have declined approximately 38% since 1995. The achievement of this substantial population reduction highlights the critical role that hunters have played in the control of TB in Michigan. Nonetheless, persistent focal areas of high density on private land remain problematic. Since 2002, baiting and feeding have been prohibited in the seven counties from which ~98% of all TB positive deer have originated. Policy makers have committed to keeping these regulations consistent for a five-year period in order to improve compliance and enforcement. The overall scope of baiting and feeding has declined dramatically since 1997, with large scale feeding largely a thing of the past. While some illegal baiting and feeding continues to occur, the size of these sites is substantially reduced, and heightened enforcement is expected to reduce the practice further over the next several years.
While much work remains, substantial progress has been made towards eradication of TB from Michigan wildlife. Apparent prevalence in the core area of the outbreak DMU 452 was 1.7% in 2004, a decrease of 64% since 1995. Trend analysis of prevalence data from 1995 to 2004 indicate a statistically significant decreasing trend. And two methods of estimating TB transmission rate in the deer herd in DMU 452 are showing statistically significant decreasing trends.


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## sadocf1 (Mar 10, 2002)

The advertisements for deer feeders directly below Jeans reply and reference to Dr.s Schmitts and Hicklings papers calling for the complete ban and total enforcement on baiting and feeding deer is in poor taste if not actually insulting. Yesterday there were 3 ads so perhaps it was accidental but today there are 4 ads.


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## sadocf1 (Mar 10, 2002)

Those ads for deer feeders disappeared !!!!


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## sadocf1 (Mar 10, 2002)

Now they are back !!!


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## Airoh (Jan 19, 2000)

The internet is a Scary Scary Place ain't it??:lol:


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

Those ads are automatically generated by google, in response to key words in a thread. We have minimal control over their content.


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## retinlew (Jul 28, 2005)

I'm kind of new here so correct me if I'm wrong. It seems that most people agree that baiting is a source of transmitting Bovine TB.  So why not ban it statewide. Please don't tell me that the limited ban is enforceable and working. You need to spend more time in the woods. I understand why people bait. If you're only hunting weekends it's a sure way to see some deer. 
I'm not trying put blame on anyone. It just seems to me that we should be focusing on ways to strengthen the deer herd so that we aren't blaming the DNR for the lack of deer. I love this sport, but it's called hunting not shooting.


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## sandbur3 (Sep 24, 2005)

Here is a theory- I have seen a dominant doe and her fawns claim a 1/2 acre clover spot and defend it from other deer. I am not real familiar with baiting. However, could the smaller bait piles be dominated by one family group,and be cleaned up faster before other deer moved in? All members of the family group are probably exposed to the same diseases. Have any of you seen an adult doe drive other deer away from bait piles?

A large bait pile would last weeks and attract deer from larger areas as well as migrating deer. Thus there would be more potential for disease transmission.

I would appreciate any comments on this idea.


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## sadocf1 (Mar 10, 2002)

I have seen does drive their own fawns away from feed when they are starving in bad winters. Michigan allows baiting over most of the state. Wisconsin allows baiting over most of their state. Wyoming has 22 state and 1 federally operated winter feedgrounds for elk. (Wyoming has the highest percentage of CWD positive hunter killed elk and deer)
The loss of Accredited TB Free status, we here in Michigan were told, would require our cattlemen to TB test dairy and breeding cattle to ship them out of state. The costly re-accreditation was to guaranteee the interstate shipment of these animals without the negative test, saving $$$. for our cattlemen.
Oddly enough there are now 34 states that require a negative test or origin from a TB Accredited herd. The USAHA HAS ADOPTED A RESOLUTION REQUIRING SIMILAR REGULATIONS BE ENTERED IN THE UNIFORM METHODS AND RULES GOVERNING THE BOVINE TB ERADICATION PROGRAM.
Here in Michigan our "opinion makers" are hinting that perhaps the deer are not infecting cattle, so we can convince the USDA to grant us the status of a BOVINE TB ACCREDITED STATE


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