# Flossing



## WB fish Slayer

I'm not understanding the whole flossing thing I bottom bounce and float both have there place to me, people make it sound to me like if you if you ain't throwing a float it's flossing or snagging, are we talking sight fishing cuz I throw a variety of stuff spinner's, spoons, rapalas, flies and spawn and catch fish in the mouth not snagged so what's the theory?


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## Trout King

WB fish Slayer said:


> I'm not understanding the whole flossing thing I bottom bounce and float both have there place to me, people make it sound to me like if you if you ain't throwing a float it's flossing or snagging, are we talking sight fishing cuz I throw a variety of stuff spinner's, spoons, rapalas, flies and spawn and catch fish in the mouth not snagged so what's the theory?


I grew up bottom bouncing. It's how my dad and his buddies taught me. Big Bags, no leader and shot to match the water flow. Fish can get flossed in a variety of presentations. Long leaders and sweeping downstream motions are a giveaway to identifying intentional flossers. 

There is a distinct feeling to a king taking a bottom bounced bag compared to a floss job. Once I switched to bobbers there was no looking back, decreased foul hookups and saved a lot on tackle. Bobber fishing is fun, but not as fun as feeling a king smash a lure, or better yet watching the whole show as the turn on a lure.


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## buckhunter14

WB fish Slayer said:


> I'm not understanding the whole flossing thing I bottom bounce and float both have there place to me, people make it sound to me like if you if you ain't throwing a float it's flossing or snagging, are we talking sight fishing cuz I throw a variety of stuff spinner's, spoons, rapalas, flies and spawn and catch fish in the mouth not snagged so what's the theory?


The art of flossing is force 'feeding' a fish using the current to sweep the leader line into the fishes mouth as current-tension pulls the hook, fly, bead, etc into the side of the fishes mouth, resulting in a hooked fish. This can be conducted with or without being able to see the fish. More importantly knowing where the fish is positioned and how the current will affect the drift/leader.

Salmon and steelhead are very prone to flossing in gravel/runs for several reasons. They are in shallowed water, placed in specific locations, have current force the leader, and have large mouths conducive to flossing!


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## Trout King

buckhunter14 said:


> The art of flossing is force 'feeding' a fish using the current to sweep the leader line into the fishes mouth as current-tension pulls the hook, fly, bead, etc into the side of the fishes mouth, resulting in a hooked fish. This can be conducted with or without being able to see the fish. More importantly knowing where the fish is positioned and how the current will affect the drift/leader.
> 
> Salmon and steelhead are very prone to flossing in gravel/runs for several reasons. They are in shallowed water, placed in specific locations, have current force the leader, and have large mouths conducive to flossing!


A great bait collecting technique


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## jmaddog8807

I bottom bounce a lot still for steelhead, esepecially on bigger rivers and in bigger holes. The Ausable is one that I almost strictly bottom bounce. When you are bottom bouncing deep holes that you can't see fish in, and they whack your bait so hard, that's a ton of fun. 

It gets a little more tricky when fishing on gravel for fish you can see. Did the fish hit? Did the line go through the mouth, then the fished moved so it felt like a tug? Who knows really. I think a majority of those fish on gravel are lined, but I know they still will hit from time to time. That's just my opinion.

When you set the hook every cast at the end of the jig, or do a sideways swipe motion, that's for sure flossin.


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## buckhunter14

Trout King said:


> A great bait collecting technique


What bait? They got flies in their stomach?!


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## Whitetail_hunter

Flossing rocks, it provides endless hours of enjoyment for most river salmon anglers. Are they stacked like CORDWOOD yet? :jam-nana:


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## Trout King

buckhunter14 said:


> What bait? They got flies in their stomach?!


The white flesh makes pretty decent catfish bait...bonus is when they develop leather skin it doesn't come off the hook easy.


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## Trout King

Whitetail_hunter said:


> Flossing rocks, it provides endless hours of enjoyment for most river salmon anglers. Are they stacked like CORDWOOD yet? :jam-nana:


Truth whether people want to admit it or not. I phased out of that technique with age. Now salmon fishing is mostly for nostalgia and enjoying a day or two on some of my favorite rivers. I could care less if people want to floss boots, just not my personal style anymore and nothing that is worth getting angry about.


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## Macs13

I realize that I may get booed out of here, but flossing and snagging are the same thing, it's just that flossing looks more refined - you're forcing a hook into a fish rather than the fish biting it out of hunger/anger. IMO, if we're talking about kings that are in the river to spawn and die, both techniques should be legal for those harvesting the fish. The number of fishermen on the rivers decreases every year and the vast majority of fish get to complete their life cycle unmolested. I believe that in a strong fishery like our kings provide, tightening of the laws is just there to earn more money for the State when they fine the bejesus out of guys. That doesn't mean that you'll catch me out there with something other than a lure or float - I'm afraid of Johnny Law - but I don't agree with it. Commence to booing. LMAO

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## Fishndude

Whitetail_hunter said:


> Flossing rocks, it provides endless hours of enjoyment for most river salmon anglers. Are they stacked like CORDWOOD yet? :jam-nana:


Ah, not Whitetail DEER Hunter, eh? :lol:


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## Treven

Macs13 said:


> I realize that I may get booed out of here, but flossing and snagging are the same thing, it's just that flossing looks more refined - you're forcing a hook into a fish rather than the fish biting it out of hunger/anger. IMO, if we're talking about kings that are in the river to spawn and die, both techniques should be legal for those harvesting the fish. The number of fishermen on the rivers decreases every year and the vast majority of fish get to complete their life cycle unmolested. I believe that in a strong fishery like our kings provide, tightening of the laws is just there to earn more money for the State when they fine the bejesus out of guys. That doesn't mean that you'll catch me out there with something other than a lure or float - I'm afraid of Johnny Law - but I don't agree with it. Commence to booing. LMAO
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Were you around and fishing while snagging was legal? I wasn't, but my dad and Pop were. I want no part of that madness to ever come back to our river banks again. I think it's pathetic as-is, currently!

Your theory is sound on paper, though. I'll agree conditionally on that, only. Reality is, the sh..crap show ain't worth the squeeze in the least.

People want to snag fish? Go to the ocean. They taste better there, too...


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## dinoday

Treven said:


> Were you around and fishing while snagging was legal? I wasn't, but my dad and Pop were. I want no part of that madness to ever come back to our river banks again. I think it's pathetic as-is, currently!


I was and I participated. 
I've said this before and I'll probably say it again.
If you weren't there, you really can't appreciate what it was like.
What people call "a s***show* now is nothing like a regular day at Tippy in 1985.
Not even close.

That being said, if you want to floss, knock yourself out.
If you want to fish with nothing but bobbers, have fun.
We're all supposed to be on the same side and there is still guys dragging them in by the tail.
Those are the guys we should really focus on.
Any person walking by can see what those guys are doing and it gives everyone a bad name.


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## Shoeman

I guess someone had to start a thread about the opening of Snagfest 2019....LOL


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## 6Speed

Shoeman said:


> I guess someone had to start a thread about the opening of Snagfest 2019....LOL


We'll need a moderator I'm sure...


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## Shoeman

It always starts with an innocent new member...


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## hawgeye

I only fish with hookless lures, like a real man!!!

Sent from my moto z3 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## Lumberman

I thought flossing was a fly fishing technique for salmon? No?

I'm with Trout King..... Go ahead and floss those boots.


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## Ramstrong

If you can't use mind powers to make them beach themselves Men Who Stare at Goats style, you're not a real fisherman. Come here Kaaannngggg!


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## kzoofisher

I can’t find any rules against “flossing” in the reg book. Is there one? I mean, I thought so long as people were legally fishing we weren’t supposed to give them grief. Or does that only count for the way you fish and ways you don’t approve of should be banned? Asking for a friend.


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## Trout King

JungleGeorge said:


> If it were involuntary , the salmon would move out of the way ..


Nah, they zip across the bed to attack the fly... I seent it


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## JungleGeorge

Trout King said:


> Nah, they zip across the bed to attack the fly... I seent it


That’s when you gotta say it real loud , “it’s in the mouth” so everyone knows


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## hungryhollow

JungleGeorge said:


> That’s when you gotta say it real loud , “it’s in the mouth” so everyone knows


 The saying I hear is (Head shaker).


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## Whitetail_hunter

I believe "chop shot" is the correct term.


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## jrv

Just read a post on FB from a “guide” who said... 
“Kings are here and they are mean. Every fish is just screaming drag and putting on aerial shows.” 
If they’re, “putting on aerial shows,” then they weren’t even flossed! I think I’ve seen one or two kings jump when were hooked in the mouth in the last 15 or so years.


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## Big Frank 25

In 1975 during the legal snagging times. We'd use a 3/8 treble tipped with flavored cocktail marshmallows. Using 3/4 inch structural nuts has weights. We would cast out and set the sinker, tighten the line and sometimes stick the rod into the rocks so as not to lose it upon the strike!

One night there was a fellow there all decked out in very nice gear using pflueger rod and reel casting spinner with a large rubber chub on it. He was visiting from New Hampshire and this was his third night there and had not landed one fish! He and his wife came to town and bought all the gear from the local tackle shop. We offered him our rods to feel the tug of these 25lb. and over fish we had been pulling. He finally relented and asked me what were using. I cut off his lure and handed to him. Hooked him up with the rig we were using. Told him strawberry was the flavor of the night. Loaded the treble with several. Told him to cast into one of our "honey holes" and told him to hang on!

Twenty minutes later he was "FISH ON!" He was having the time of his life. I offered to net for him but he declined. He fought that 30 pounder to submission and tailed it on the beach!

He carried his gear to the top of the hill where Ron and I were enjoying his excitement since we had pulled lines to give him room. Shook our hands and asked what he owed me. "A nickel for the hook, unless you want to return it." I told him. We all laughed and away he went with gear and fish in hand.

At dawn he returned with is wife. Both thanked us profusely! Hugs from his bride. Speaking of their return in the future. Shaking hands he gave a nickel and thanked me again.

Ron and I walked them both back up the hill to say goodbye. There in the street was a nice shinny brand new Eldorado Convertible pulling an airstream trailer! I should had asked for a quarter! 

(Is this legal fishing now? Just simple river fishing.)


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## nighttime

Trout King said:


> What's everyone's favorite fly pattern for kings?









Nothing beats purple yarn!



jrv said:


> Just read a post on FB from a “guide” who said...
> “Kings are here and they are mean. Every fish is just screaming drag and putting on aerial shows.”
> If they’re, “putting on aerial shows,” then they weren’t even flossed! I think I’ve seen one or two kings jump when were hooked in the mouth in the last 15 or so years.


True most will head shake to surface. Although I’ve hooked plenty head shaking jumpers, jacks jump more than adults for sure.


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## jatc

jrv said:


> Just read a post on FB from a “guide” who said...
> “Kings are here and they are mean. Every fish is just screaming drag and putting on aerial shows.”
> If they’re, “putting on aerial shows,” then they weren’t even flossed! I think I’ve seen one or two kings jump when were hooked in the mouth in the last 15 or so years.


Sometimes they swat the fly with their tail to stun it before they spin around to eat it. Once in a while a novice might accidentally set the hook a tad early.

This is still a legit hookup though because the fish was in the act of feeding when the #10 Stonefly got stuck in his tail. The fish was about to swallow it anyway.


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## TK81

jatc said:


> Sometimes they swat the fly with their tail to stun it before they spin around to eat it. Once in a while a novice might accidentally set the hook a tad early.
> 
> This is still a legit hookup though because the fish was in the act of feeding when the #10 Stonefly got stuck in his tail. The fish was about to swallow it anyway.


Actually these fish are so hungry, they attempt to take your fly anus first, as it is closer to their stomach. That's why you see so many fish coming in bass ackwards.

Least that's what I heard from a guy I may or may not have been fishing with...


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## Trout King

jrv said:


> Just read a post on FB from a “guide” who said...
> “Kings are here and they are mean. Every fish is just screaming drag and putting on aerial shows.”
> If they’re, “putting on aerial shows,” then they weren’t even flossed! I think I’ve seen one or two kings jump when were hooked in the mouth in the last 15 or so years.


Which guide service? I may have to switch from wanting to hire TFB to that guy.


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## flyrodder46

I sure hope the Mods don't lock this one, I am having a lot of laughs. The season has not even started yet, just waiting for this years stories.


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## SJC

Trout King said:


> What's everyone's favorite fly pattern for kings?


This one is equally good for kings and coho if you don't mind cutting out the bruises...
View media item 119656


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## ausable_steelhead

River kings very rarely jump. They roll to the top, then run..run..run, with those big headshakes mixed in. Why people would ever take a boring, foul hooked fight over that is an absolute mystery. I love bobber fishing kings because of the drop, stop, and that big ol’ shake. Feeling that rod tip pounding on solid resistance is what it’s about!



jatc said:


> Sometimes they swat the fly with their tail to stun it before they spin around to eat it. Once in a while a novice might accidentally set the hook a tad early.
> 
> This is still a legit hookup though because the fish was in the act of feeding when the #10 Stonefly got stuck in his tail. The fish was about to swallow it anyway.


This is known as a “fin slap”.


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## buckhunter14

ausable_steelhead said:


> *River kings very rarely jump.* They roll to the top, then run..run..run, with those big headshakes mixed in. Why people would ever take a boring, foul hooked fight over that is an absolute mystery. I love bobber fishing kings because of the drop, stop, and that big ol’ shake. Feeling that rod tip pounding on solid resistance is what it’s about!
> 
> 
> 
> This is known as a “fin slap”.


I had a day about 9-10 years ago on a bottom section of a West Side river when the kings were just stacked in a hole. We were bobber fishing golf-ball sized skein chunks and every king we hooked was exploding out of the water sometimes 4+ feet in the air. What a day that was, one of my finest Kang Bang memories. I don't think I have had a king go airborne since except one in the middle of GTB.


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## Scadsobees

SJC said:


> This one is equally good for kings and coho if you don't mind cutting out the bruises...
> View media item 119656


Loved those things. My dad had a box of them left over from the day, and when we dropped a pole over the side while perching on lake michigan (a boatful of kid cousins, whatdya expect?) we'd do some trolling in hopes of snagging it.


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## SJC

buckhunter14 said:


> I had a day about 9-10 years ago on a bottom section of a West Side river when the kings were just stacked in a hole. We were bobber fishing golf-ball sized skein chunks and every king we hooked was exploding out of the water sometimes 4+ feet in the air. What a day that was, one of my finest Kang Bang memories. I don't think I have had a king go airborne since except one in the middle of GTB.


I have also had legit biters jump. They usually don't but sometimes they do.


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## riverbob

buckhunter14 said:


> I had a day about 9-10 years ago on a bottom section of a West Side river when the kings were just stacked in a hole. We were bobber fishing golf-ball sized skein chunks and every king we hooked was exploding out of the water sometimes 4+ feet in the air. What a day that was, one of my finest Kang Bang memories. I don't think I have had a king go airborne since except one in the middle of GTB.


 I've had very few jumper, but when I did, I believe it was because there were so many fish in one spot, they had no where to go but up


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## kzoofisher

Macs13 said:


> "Snagging: Attempting to take fish in a manner that the fish does not take the hook voluntarily in its mouth. It is unlawful to snag a fish."


 “Attempting”, there’s the rub. You have to have intent to attempt something. Just look around here and you’ll find plenty of people who will say that the fish eat the flies. I’d bet that the vast majority of people doing it believe the fish are taking the flies. They have no intent to snag so they aren’t snagging. Not necessarily an argument I find convincing but I think enough members of a jury would to make it not worth writing a ticket. 

Limiting the distance from the weight to the furthest hook to 4’ is the best and most enforceable rule imo.


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## Shoeman

And really who cares? 3’ 5’?

You’re not using 60# test and a broomstick like the old days.


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## Fishndude

As long as everyone is drift fishing, everyone can fish. When people start lobbing heavily weighted hooks, and yanking them straight in to snag fish, nobody around them can get a drift to even try to fair-hook fish. I am not condoning lining fish. But in my opinion it is a far better way to foul hook Salmon, than outright snagging with heavily, and creatively weighted hooks. But it is still snagging, and you CAN get Salmon to bite, if you just keep trying. I got to the point where I put a value on getting Salmon to actually bite decades ago. It sucks to have a tail-hooked King on, and they are always going away from you, because you can't turn them by pulling on them. It takes forever to land them, and you can't control them. There isn't any fun in that, for me. 

I do love watching Snaggers fighting big ole tail-hooked Kangs, while their buddy is trying to net the fish. The guys fighting the fish cannot control them, so they have to follow them downstream. And most of them wade out into the river (for reasons unknown, but they do) which means they can NEVER pull the fish to shore. Then their poor buddy has to wade to mid-river to try to net a tail-hooked fish that can't be controlled. I've seen lots of Swimmers, and Dunkers doing this. I've seen Netters get wrapped in super-heavy line with a raging tail-hooked King still attached, and hooks piercing waders. I've seen the hooks pull, and massively weighted trebles come flying back at the Angler, or hooking the Netter. I've seen nets lost, and fish lost, and hooks sunk in hands/faces/chests/waders, etc. And I cannot help by think, "they are SO deserving," when those things happen. 

But I will still shamelessly ask those same Anglers for loose Salmon eggs.  Such is the life of an Egg Whore. :lol: In 7 weeks, I'll by plying my trade.


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## Whitetail_hunter

Good luck Mac sorry I did not get get back in touch with ya last week, phone took a swim Wednesday am. No where close enough for me to sacrifice the time till I got home on Monday.


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## Trout King

Whitetail_hunter said:


> @fishfray pounded some Kings on skein and spinners in a hole I had just ran my yarn in for a while, caught lots of fish there before but was slow for me that day. Not enough guys fishing it.. Good videos that are now on YouTube.
> 
> I ran some skein there with no luck, guess I don't have the touch, think I will buy some mepps spinners and change out the hooks for next time. Could be my cure for the eggs think I will try out that borax o fire.


Check out Nate's Bait, have been using it for a few years with good success. I used some boraxofire and it works. I like to dry my eggs until tacky, don't care too much for a sloppy mess. 

Spinners are fun, the other day we did well in the pouring rain on hardware.


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## riverbob

riverbob said:


> maybe i'll look for him on the grand, besides I heard a big brown talking s### on his way up the river, maybe I can catch up to him,,,,,,,gone fishin..by


 well I never did catch up to that big brown, but I got captured by a big pontoon boat, n I caught 7 smaller browns, all of them were long neck 12oz ers ,,,, slow start today


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## Fishndude

Nate's Baits cure in Black Cherry can be the secret killer at times.


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## nighttime

Fishndude said:


> Nate's Baits cure in Black Cherry can be the secret killer at times.





Trout King said:


> Check out Nate's Bait, have been using it for a few years with good success. I used some boraxofire and it works. I like to dry my eggs until tacky, don't care too much for a sloppy mess.
> 
> Spinners are fun, the other day we did well in the pouring rain on hardware.


Thanks boys for another option out there! Always appreciate when seasoned vets give up good advice in products. Now I have whip out the wallet and donate more dollars to try something different/new. Carmel dolphins next weekend then bring the chrome!!


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## Fishndude

All this being said, I've caught more Kings on skein eggs cured in 20 Muleteam Borax (laundry soap). than every other cure combined. A little Jello mixed in for color, and a wide array of color options. Sometimes simplicity is genius.


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## Whitetail_hunter

Macs13 said:


> Heading up now with the fray recipe. LMAO
> View attachment 434155
> View attachment 434157
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


How did that work out for you? I just whipped some up.


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## Whitetail_hunter

Fishndude said:


> All this being said, I've caught more Kings on skein eggs cured in 20 Muleteam Borax (laundry soap). than every other cure combined. A little Jello mixed in for color, and a wide array of color options. Sometimes simplicity is genius.


Every use steelhead eggs? I have some loose ones from spring cured it straight borax.


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## Fishndude

I almost never have loose Steelhead eggs (cuz I don't really enjoy catching them when they are spawning), and I don't cure Steelhead skein spawn - although I do use it for bait at times. King skein is pretty easy to get right now, and that is what I've caught the majority of the Kings I've caught on, over the years.


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## Trout King

Whitetail_hunter said:


> Every use steelhead eggs? I have some loose ones from spring cured it straight borax.


Tie them up, they will work. I have caught them on any type of salmon or trout egg I have thrown. Sockeye skein got the bites last week.


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## Macs13

Whitetail_hunter said:


> How did that work out for you? I just whipped some up.


They look and feel great. I was up there through the night, though, so bobber fishing was out. It was hardware and minty fresh floss for me. 

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## hypox

Floss 'em & toss 'em


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## Trout King

hypox said:


> Floss 'em & toss 'em


Rip em and drippem


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## nighttime

Lol man this year’s salmon threads are best in awhile!! Keep it coming....


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## AdamBradley

I don’t think we have had a closed thread yet!?!? How is this possible!?!?


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## Trout King

AdamBradley said:


> I don’t think we have had a closed thread yet!?!? How is this possible!?!?


I think people have just accepted what salmon season is, finally. Like I always say, no reason to cry over spilt milt.


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