# 5 commercial fishing boats to dock in Manistee



## EdB (Feb 28, 2002)

http://www.ludingtondailynews.com/news.php?story_id=35956

LDN STAFF - 

5 commercial fishing boats to dock 
in Manistee

Could mean 100 jobs 

MANISTEE &#8212; Five commercial fishing boats operating out of Manistee could mean as many as 100 jobs to the area in the near future, according to tribal fishermen. The boats will dock next to the S.S. City of Milwaukee. 

On April 26, a tribal commercial fishing coalition met with charter boat captains, representatives from the Manistee County Sport Fishing Association and representatives of the Manistee County Convention and Visitors Bureau for a presentation on changes in tribal fishing operations on the waters off western Michigan.

Tribal Elder Don Stone and his sons Israel (tribal council member) and Levi led the presentation.

The group has made arrangements with the S.S. City of Milwaukee management and the campground on the western side of Manistee Lake to use dock facilities.

Judy Ball, executive director of the Manistee County Convention and Visitors Bureau (CVB), and S.S. City of Milwaukee General Manager Linda Spencer talked about the positive benefits of the operation and how the commercial fishing operation was going to be a tourist attraction that would help everyone in the community. They noted that many of the fishing boats are of similar vintage as the Milwaukee, having been built in the middle of the last century.

Ball also expressed the CVB&#8217;s pleasure with the specific information centers that will be established because of this move by the tribe. The centers will include the Visitors Center, S.S. City of Milwaukee, and Good Thunder Motorcycles.

Tribal Ogema Patrick D. Wilson talked about this positive step designed to help all of the communities involved, both tribal and non-tribal. He said, &#8220;We can all be successful by working together in a good way.&#8221; 

The President of the Manistee County Sport Fishing Association, Kevin Hughes and Howard Vaas, representing Manistee Area Charter Boats, were part of the 30-plus participants in the meeting, which included charter captains from Manistee.

&#8220;My thoughts on the meeting were it was an open dialogue,&#8221; Hughes said. &#8220;We talked about cooperation, we talked about we need to be informed where the nets were going to be and we asked that they go above and beyond, as far as marking for safety. They talked about having a Web site so they could identify where their nets were going to be. I talked about having something like Google.earth so you could visually see the landmarks and figure out where they&#8217;re going to be. We talked about cooperation. We&#8217;d just like to not have confrontations and not have safety issues.&#8221;

Tribal fishermen said they would post GPS coordinates of the nets on a Web site to assist local fishermen and boaters. Agreement was also reached on posting information on the nets being used to assist recreational fishermen to learn how to navigate safely around commercial fishing nets. 

Officials said the tribal fishing operation would have minimal impact on the charter and sport anglers because it focuses on whitefish and bloater chubs. Levi Stone said the waters off of Manistee have not been commercially fished for years. He said fish are likely overpopulated, causing undersized fish in the area. 

The coalition is made up of commercial fishers from the Little River Band of Ottawa Indians and is based in Manistee but also operates out of Ludington and Muskegon. The group fishes the waters of Lake Michigan from Grand Haven north to Arcadia as part of what is known as the Treaty Fishing Zone established in the 2000 Consent Decree. The fishers are also proposing to fish in the intertribal waters that extend north from Frankfort across to Escanaba. 

Tribal Natural Resource Department Director Jimmie Mitchell took responsibility over the commercial fishing program which includes monitoring the fishing activities and mandatory catch reports. 

&#8220;Tribal Fishing with nets is culturally inherent to our people&#8221; Mitchell stated. &#8220;Fishing in this old way has been fraught with controversy over previous years but fishing is central to our identity as Indian people; we&#8217;ve had to defend our right to fish which included going through an expensive court battle.&#8221;

The existence of the right comes at a heavy price, he said, but added it makes him proud to see these men and women able to fish as his ancestors did long ago, mooring their boats in exactly the same historic locations, expending every last bit of their physical energy on a hard day&#8217;s work, exhausted but somehow freer for being able to do so.


&#8212; Daily News Staff Writer Brian Mulherin contributed to this report, which was compiled from a Little River Band of Ottawa Indians press release.


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## salmon_slayer06 (Mar 19, 2006)

**** that. If I see those nets I won't think twice about tieing a chain to it and dragging the bitch on shore. They got the casino in Manistee which killed all the locals who live there, now they want to screw up the fishing too.


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## Hunt4Ever (Sep 9, 2000)

EdB said:


> Tribal Fishing with nets is culturally inherent to our people Mitchell stated. Fishing in this old way has been fraught with controversy over previous years but fishing is central to our identity as Indian people; weve had to defend our right to fish which included going through an expensive court battle.
> 
> The existence of the right comes at a heavy price, he said, but added it makes him proud to see these men and women able to fish as his ancestors did long ago, mooring their boats in exactly the same historic locations, expending every last bit of their physical energy on a hard days work, exhausted but somehow freer for being able to do so.


 
If they can set and retrieve those nets with a couple of guys in a canoe then I would let them take all the fish they can get.


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## steelers fan (Dec 5, 2004)

Hunt4Ever said:


> If they can set and retrieve those nets with a couple of guys in a canoe then I would let them take all the fish they can get.


 
Amen Brother...


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## Fixin' to Fish (Nov 13, 2006)

steelers fan said:


> Amen Brother...


Ditto


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## lkmifisherman (Feb 4, 2004)

salmon_slayer06 said:


> **** that. If I see those nets I won't think twice about tieing a chain to it and dragging the bitch on shore. They got the casino in Manistee which killed all the locals who live there, now they want to screw up the fishing too.



Go to the LACBA's website and look at the net you intend to hook a chain to...cuz your gonna need a bigger boat.....

I am not happy with this either. The best we can hope for is that they will cooperate, mark them correctly and post the coordinates somewhere so we can steer clear. You can thank The Treaty of 1836, The Consent Decree of 2000 and our feerless MI gov for this mess....There is a sticky in the open thread to give you the coordinates for both Manistee and Ludington. If info becomes available for Muskegon it will be posted there as well....

LMF


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## FLAT RATE (Jan 6, 2004)

Its the Federal Govt. you can thank. The State Attorney General and D.N.R. went to court along with several ameci groups to try to fight this , and the Consent Decree is what came about due to a Federal Judges Ruling (Enslen)that the Treaty of 1836 was valid and still in effect. The Consent Decree isn't perfect but it is better than what was originaly proposed by the Tribes and courts.The decree did get rid of 14 million feet of GILL net . It was the Federal Govt. that negotiated the original treaty , not the state. I understand your frustration but lets direct it at the right people.


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## maak (Aug 15, 2006)

Traditionally ,the Great Lakes Indians never had steelhead or salmon. If they're going to take, I think they should put, as well. Let them ante up with some stocking efforts. I don't recall reading anything about casinos in the history books either.


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## lkmifisherman (Feb 4, 2004)

Flatrate, 

I stand corrected on the states involvement but the state opened the door for casinos when they created the lottery. If there had been no lottery there would be no casinos...As for the taking of game fish..They are not supposed to and they swear and declare that they don't...But who is to say...I would like to get a ride on one of those boats just to see what they do catch...I personally don't think that will happen but I am still working on it...

LMF


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## FLAT RATE (Jan 6, 2004)

I understand what you are saying about the taking of game fish , and I agree. They are limited to 100 pounds per day of Lake Trout for personal use I beleive ( not supposed to sell it), and they are supposed to return any salmon or other trout species. It would be intresting to get a ride on one for sure. I have no problem wih the Lottery or Casino , I would just suggest people remember things like this when they spend thier money in Casnios.


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## J&J'sToy (Mar 13, 2007)

Hi Flat Rate, I do believe they keep more than 100# of lake trout, I know that it's because I fish Rogers City, we haven't had any nets their in awhile, so check with the Steelheads they help fight what they could keep, BTW if you don't already know this, we have to plant so many lake trout for the Tribes so they can keep them. Last year they planted over a 500,000 in lake huron alone. so go figure.


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## salmon_slayer06 (Mar 19, 2006)

there was A REASON WHY MANISTEE WAS THE BEST STEELHEAD RIVER ON LK MI. NOW, THATS ALL ABOUT TO CHANGE. I CAN'T THINK OF THE WORDS TO DESCRIBE HOW PISSED OFF I AM OF THIS. I SEEN FIRST HAND WHAT NETTING DOES TO A BODY OF WATER. PURDYS FISHERIES IN SARNIA ONTARIO RAPED LOWER LK HURON CLEAN. WHITEFISH THAT WERE ONCE ABUNDANT ARE NOW ALL DOLLAR SIGNS IN THE OWNERS BANK ACCOUNT. THIS IS BULL.


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## Hi Ho Silver_Joe (Aug 4, 2003)

salmon_slayer06 said:


> **** that. If I see those nets I won't think twice about tieing a chain to it and dragging the bitch on shore. They got the casino in Manistee which killed all the locals who live there, now they want to screw up the fishing too.


I don't like the nets either. But I'd be careful posting on a public forum that you intend to commit a federal crime.


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## JasonCarp (May 9, 2005)

"Judy Ball, executive director of the Manistee County Convention and Visitors Bureau (CVB), and S.S. City of Milwaukee General Manager Linda Spencer talked about the positive benefits of the operation and how the commercial fishing operation was going to be a tourist attraction that would help everyone in the community. They noted that many of the fishing boats are of similar vintage as the Milwaukee, having been built in the middle of the last century."

Seriously? I think this would be a deterrant to healthy tourism. A stinky trawler built 60 years ago is not "vintage". Native Americans in tribal dress, and outrigger canoes would be "vintage". Just like a paper mill, power plant or any other dockside industry, tourist are not going to flock to see this operation. Not to mention if the fishery is decimated, what will that do to tourism and the charter business? Or even what about the limited freedom of charter captains to provide a great experience to clients? Who is holding Judy Ball accountable to this? And whose back pocket is she sitting?

. They talked about having a Web site so they could identify where their nets were going to be. I talked about having something like Google.earth so you could visually see the landmarks and figure out where theyre going to be. We talked about cooperation. Wed just like to not have confrontations and not have safety issues.

What about the 500 or so guys out of each port that don't check a web site before they go fishing?

Levi Stone said the waters off of Manistee have not been commercially fished for years. He said fish are likely overpopulated, causing undersized fish in the area. 

Cause Levi said so? Who has actually studied the population of white fish to see if they are actually overpopulated?

Tribal Fishing with nets is culturally inherent to our people Mitchell stated. Fishing in this old way has been fraught with controversy over previous years but fishing is central to our identity as Indian people; weve had to defend our right to fish which included going through an expensive court battle.

What the h**l? Since when is smokin trawlers through the waters with oversized nets culturally inherent? Nobody should deny anyone's right to fish, but you've got casinos now as a source of revenue, why must we risk everyone's enjoyment of a natural resource to protect the reparations of a select few? When are we going to realize that the past is now behind us, and everyone in this country is on equal footing now.

The existence of the right comes at a heavy price, he said, but added it makes him proud to see these men and women able to fish as his ancestors did long ago, mooring their boats in exactly the same historic locations, expending every last bit of their physical energy on a hard days work, exhausted but somehow freer for being able to do so.

Total spin... not denying commercial fishing is a hard day's work, but I'm pretty sure that it's not quite as hard as it used to be when the "ancestors" did it.


As someone who is new to boat ownership and great lakes sport fishing this year, it scares the crap out of me to think that I may sink and die by tying into one of these things. Quite frankly, I'd rather the Coast Guard be allowed to target practice everywhere on the Greal Lakes that have to dodge giant boat eaters. I've spent enough time on charter boats and other's boats to know that things get hairy enough out there during peak season with the charters and other boats, and it scares me to think what could happen adding these to the mix. 

Is there a congressman or woman we could start a grass roots effort to get anything done? I'm sure no politician is willing to stick their neck out on this, but it's worth a try. Not sure if this would be a federal or state issue.


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## Scorpious (Sep 8, 2005)

I have been on shore on Superior fishing when a native brought his boat up to the beach and threw about 10 salmon and steelhead on shore for us. If they are supposed to throw them back, why were they in his boat for the 6 or 7 mile ride (at least) back to the launch? Maybe his friends radioed him that the DNR was at the launch checking so he had to get rid of them fast!


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## FLAT RATE (Jan 6, 2004)

What they are supposed to do and what some do maybe two different things.


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## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

The root problem is the original treaty was signed before Michigan was even a state. So now we have this liberal judge enslen saying this treaty is still valid. So just when is it that these things become invalid, do they just go on in perpituity? Things change over time, and so should this treaty.

Mitchell sits there and tells us its the old way of doing things, well I doubt they had these boats in 1836, and they sure didn't have these big ole trap nets laying around. They used to have to stand on the bank of the river and spear fish, if you want to go back to the original treaty, then go all the way back. Just how long are we suppossed to pay the Indians for "Stealing" of their land? Is that too forever? Then the feds get involved and say "Oh yeah you can build casinos", well since when does the federal government tell the states what to do? Of course the states won't fight the casinos as the Indians do have to pay the state some of those monies. The problem with the casinos is this: The Indians really don't own the casinos. Lets take the Manistee Casino as an example, did you know that the casino Circus Circus in Las Vegas is the money behind it? Think about that. And think just where did the money originally come from to build these casinos in the first place? Just food for thought there.

Now you have the indians buying up properties all over the place, such as along the Big Man, and don't you dare step foot on that property, cuz they will get you for trepass.

Lastly, do you know what happens if the indian fisherpeople are caught with fish they shouldn't have, or over their quota, basically nothing. The DNR can take them to court, but the courst will refer them back to the tribe, who then gives them a little slap on the wrist, and off they go again. Thats been proven time after time.

Well theres my rant for the day, have a good one.


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## soggybtmboys (Feb 24, 2007)

Think I am gonna puke. If it is supposed to be for personal use, then why the heck are they using trawlers? I did not think the tribe was that big anymore, especially after they turned on themselves like a pack or rabid dogs. Trying to throw out their own when it came to Casino profit sharing. I have a little native blood in me and I have always been proud of that small part of my heritage, but all this stuff makes me sick.


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## Carpmaster (Apr 1, 2004)

Looks like it is time to retake our rights again, their BS is just f'd up to start with, this whoa is me crap from every person persecuted in the past has gone over the edge. Those nets scare the crap outta me.....the one time I ever venture to the soo to fish atlantics i had to deal with the silver spider throwing sob's, thats bad enough.....enough ranting


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## lkmifisherman (Feb 4, 2004)

Keep in mind this is "NOT A PRIVATE MESSAGE BOARD". Anyone can see everything, IP's are logged and they have their spies here...What I am saying is please be aware of what you post even when mad....

I live in Ludington but my home port has always been Manistee and I knew it was just a matter of time before they started there. I have been doing what I could since I first started big lake fishing to fight back. I don't frequent the casino, I don't fish Indian tournaments, I don't buy products from those that sponsor Indian tournaments, and I report any info on the nets that I can. I used to go to the ice cream store at the corner of River Street and 31 in Manistee but no longer. Guess who owns it...The Tribe....I'll go eat an ice cream sandwich from Wesco before I give them a dime...To most it may not seem like much but it's something...

And keep this in mind, just touching one of the prized nets that "we" purchased them is a Federal/Tribal crime. That is probably one point that has been missed. They are under jurisdiction of the Tribal/Federal Laws not State and you will be too. They are a sovereign nation within a nation. They want to be treated differently but want to be treated the same. Actually they are treated better. Maybe it's time for a class action discrimination lawsuit..Did you know they don't pay income taxes? or land taxes? or sales tax? or taxes on gasoline? Everytime taxes are raised on cigarettes or alchohol it doesn't affect them? Did you know that this band of Indians didn't exist in 1836? Nor did the band that is trying to get a casino near GR...They can go to college for free but few do. Why should they? Most live better than I do and DON'T HAVE A JOB!!!! I am as pizzed off over this as you all are but until we "band" together as they have, we won't stand a chance.....

LMF


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## Jason Adam (Jun 27, 2001)

salmon_slayer06 said:


> **** that. If I see those nets I won't think twice about tieing a chain to it and dragging the bitch on shore. They got the casino in Manistee which killed all the locals who live there, now they want to screw up the fishing too.


Two things.. One, this is not a new issue.. It's not a "now" thing.. Its been a issue for a while. Second, you tie up to a net, you will have one less boat, and probably one less life... Perhaps you dont understand the size of a trap net....


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