# Curious?



## caseyj

I've been looking at the various models of kayaks here and I seem to be drawn towards the hybrids. While watching one of the videos on the Coosa kyak, I noticed that waders were worn. Is this the standard garb for these boats? Seems kind of dangerous in deep water if you were to fall in. 

If one were fishing in big water, does the SOT kayaks have a disadvantage with wave action vs. the enclosed kayak? 

When carrying a kayak in your pick-up, do you leave the tailgate down or up and place the kayak on an angle or just let it stick out the back?

A 65 # kayak still seems heavy to me if you have to carry it down to the beach (I'm 73) for launching along with it's gear and if you use a caddy of some sort, then you would have to return it to your vehicle before departing. Does the model with the attached wheel really do the job?

When talking about a higher end priced kayak, what kind of dollars are we talking about? Such as the Coosa or equivalentor Manta.

Do dealers take in trades on these boats? I have a decked out bass boat.

Im getting excited over these boats so I have to apologize for all my questions. Thanks in advance.


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## Swamp Monster

As for the waders, early season and late season cold water fishing, lots of guys wear waders. Usually you wet launch the boat if you don't have a dock plus you can get some paddle drip etc on your legs/lap and waders wil lkeep you dry. I'm refering to use in a SOT Sit on Top like the Coosa or Manta Ray, since theyse have scupper holes that will drain any splash but also let some water in the cockpit depending on conditions and load weight etc. In cold water, keeping dry helps. There are lots of kayak specific clothing as well that can accomplish this and probably do it safer as well. Those that use waders also religiously use a wader belt....but even that is not 100%. If I'm going to get wet launching in cold water I wear breathable lightweight hip boots to keep me legs dry.....works just fine. 

In big water SOT kayaks are nice because they are self bailing and almost unsinkable. They don't all have the same hull configuration so each model will handle rough water a bit differently. They will take water over the side but with unplugged scupper holes, this is generally not a problem....just don't have any hull hatches open! Traditional Sit In enclosed kayaks offer more protection and with a Kayak top (clothing) and a full skirt, are very big water worthy....but you need to know how to exit, and you need to know how to roll etc unless you want to drown when you tip. On big water you'd better be able to perfrom some sort of self rescue, meaning righting your craft and re-entering your boat to get yourself to safety. This isn't always easy. There's guys on here and there are classes that where you can learn these things and get proper instruction. 

As far as hauling the yak with a vehicle, there are all kinds of options. I lay them in the truck with tailgate down or put them on a modified trailer. I have two 12 footers and only a 5.5 foot bed...6.5 with the gate down so a bunch of boat hangs out. They are strapped down good (plus I have a truck cap) and the ends are flagged heavily but I still worry about soemone not paying attention and running into them. They make easy load roof racks today, pull behind trailers, truck bed racks etc....lots of otpions to fit ones need. I've built one custom trailer and plan to build another from a boat trailer base.....you can buy them new but the prices are stupid!

I have not tried the newer models with the attached wheel but the idea is great! They do make carts...and lots of guys make their own custom carts out of PVC tube etc. Some like Hobie make a cart that you pull of and mount in your yak to save you a trip.....friend has one on her Hobie and it is slick! I generally carry mine down and then make another trip with gear and I'm fine with that. In some cases that is not practical either by distance or for reasons of theft so a homemade cart is likely in my future.
Natives have the built in wheel that look slick but I wonder if the yak wants to roll from side to side on such a narrow wheel. I want to demo one though. 

The Coosa Elite runs $1000. Most good fishing yaks are going to run $700-$2000. Most though in the $700-$1000 range really. The lighweight versions and some specialty models start pushing up to and past the $2000 mark. Now for a high end touring yak, you could easily double that price but they are not ideal fishing yaks. 

Some dealers might deal with used boats not sure. Best bet is to start hitting some kayak shops and demo whatever you can. Many will let you demo them but you may have to wait for the weather to break depending on your location. The best advice is to demo one...the good shops will recommend this since they want to put you in the best yak for your needs. With demo time you'll quickly find out what kind of layout you prefer, the seat style you like, the hull design that fits you best etc. Plus you can get some good advice and instruction while doing the demos.


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## caseyj

Thanks Swamp monster for all the detail and your quick response. You've answered all of my questions. Again, thank you. Now, to start shopping.


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## kek25

I am brand new to the kayak fishing trend. After doing much reading on the various kayak-type boats, I decided to demo the sit-on-top style because I read that they are easier to right and re-enter in case of a capsize and/or fall overboard. They have skupper holes which makes them self bailing, as long as water doesnt enter the hatches.

I ended up buying a 2010 Wilderness Tarpon 140 which ran about $875 (I've read the updated style, 2009 or newer, gives a much drier ride than the older versions); a Werner paddle that cost about $140; a used swift-entry dry suit for $275 (for cold weather fishing; I've read using waders can be very dangerous); a pair of Chota waterproof Kayak boots that ran about $100; and the personal floatation device was about $89. You also need dry boxes and/or dry bags to store things that could get damaged if wet and leashes for various equipment (i.e. rods, paddle, etc.) in case they fall overboard. I made my own leashes this weekend from an old phone cord, some zip ties, shrink wrap, and clips I bought from Lowes.

I haven't capsized the kayak yet, but plan to do so this summer under controlled conditions and practice deep water re-entry to see if what I've read about righting and re-entry is true.

I transport the kayak on my 3/4 ton pickup using a Thule roof rack and a pair of Malone kayak wings. I slide the kayak onto the wings from the bed and slide it off from the front of the truck placing rubber-backed rugs over the windshield and hood. The Tarpon 140 weighs about 75 lbs. It is somewhat heavy and a little cumbersome due to its length, but with practice I've been able to "master" getting it on and off the truck myself. 2 people make it a lot easier.

They make kayak carts to get the boat from the truck to the water's edge basically a cradle on wheels to support one end of the kayak. I was at Gander Mountain yesterday and they had a nice looking cart for $79. I've also seen some sites on the internet where people have made their own carts.

I just added the typical milk crate storeage bin with attached rod holders this weekend, and will be adding a Scotty 257 3 rod holder to the "dash" of the kayak this week.

Can't wait to get out on the water and give it a try, but want to be extra careful before heading out because I think this is one of those sports where it will pay to be a little extra cautious as it can be easy to take something for granted and get into trouble pretty quick. Still leary about getting out on water with power boat traffic and trying to rig ways to make me as visible as possible out there (i.e. flags, bright colors, etc.)

Good luck in your research and decision. As mentioned above, demo'ing is a very good way to go, because it lets you try several styles and you can pick the one that best suits your needs.


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## Swamp Monster

A flag of some type is a must have imo, especially for stationary fishing activities...being that low to the water, you blend in to the shoreline quickly.

Most powerboaters are pretty respectful but there's always that one..... A bright paddle helps and I always make sure to use it if I feel that a someone on a power boat may not notice us. I'll be adding a hand held air horn this year after we had a close call with a kid on a jetski...very close call at high speed. Those are the folks you really need to watch. I always pay attention to all the boaters on the water to see how they drive, see how they act etc. It does not take long to develop a profile for each boater on the water and you quickly learn which ones to keep a closer eye on. I don't fear them, but I do pay attention and I do give them the right of away. Just pay attention and be prepared to make yourself visible or herd.

I even kayak at night on lakes with a decent amount of after dark traffic....all at no wake speeds though. I use a red flashing bicycle light on my flag pole and a small led headlamp on the front. I also keep a high intensity small flashlight in my vest for quick access. Night fishing from a yak is a lot of fun. I've done it alone on water I'm very familiar with but it is far safer to buddy up for obvious reasons. Wearing a pdf while night fishing is a pretty good idea too!

I have a short pvc tube with the American flag for color plus I have reflective tape on the pvc tube. At night you can zip tie a couple of those green glow sticks you buy from any place that sells camping supplies. 

Also some of the deck rigging made today is made from reflective material that really shines under light or even in the sun during the day. Some guy use reflective tape on the paddles as well. 

Bright kayaks help but mine is dark green and blends right in. I was not interested in having a bright colored boat but it is a viable option.

The Wilderness Tarpon series are great yaks....pretty fast in the world of SOT as well.


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## Putman Lake Campground

caseyj said:


> I've been looking at the various models of kayaks here and I seem to be drawn towards the hybrids. While watching one of the videos on the Coosa kyak, I noticed that waders were worn. Is this the standard garb for these boats? Seems kind of dangerous in deep water if you were to fall in.
> 
> If one were fishing in big water, does the SOT kayaks have a disadvantage with wave action vs. the enclosed kayak?
> 
> When carrying a kayak in your pick-up, do you leave the tailgate down or up and place the kayak on an angle or just let it stick out the back?
> 
> A 65 # kayak still seems heavy to me if you have to carry it down to the beach (I'm 73) for launching along with it's gear and if you use a caddy of some sort, then you would have to return it to your vehicle before departing. Does the model with the attached wheel really do the job?
> 
> When talking about a higher end priced kayak, what kind of dollars are we talking about? Such as the Coosa or equivalentor Manta.
> 
> Do dealers take in trades on these boats? I have a decked out bass boat.
> 
> Im getting excited over these boats so I have to apologize for all my questions. Thanks in advance.


It's gettign to be that time of year.

If you are selling your bass boat I"M sure a number of folks on here would be interested to know how much...

maybe list it in the classifieds here.

on 120 your side of twin lakes they sell kayaks and power boats.. 

I've never bought from them, only spoke to them a few times. So I don't know how they are to do business with, but have been in the area a long time.


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## kek25

Thanks for the suggestions SM. I did fashion a flag pole out of 3/4" PVC using a 1 1/2" double sided PVC female adaptor reduced down to 3/4" which fits right over one of the 1 1/2" PVC rod holders attached to the milk crate. I think I should be able to fabricate a light to put at the top of the pole then fashion something similar for the bow.


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## caseyj

When installing lights on your yak, I would think that you would have to abide by the navigation laws of a white light on the stern and red/green on the bow. 

As far as dealers in my area, there is a "Powers" in Montague that handles both the Coosa and the Native series so that would be an option. Also Dick's Sporting Goods in the Mall. Thanks for the suggestion on M120. I'll check them out as well. Now, to see how many pop bottle returns I may need to make the purchase.


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## kek25

caseyj said:


> When installing lights on your yak, I would think that you would have to abide by the navigation laws of a white light on the stern and red/green on the bow. . .


Good point.


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## caseyj

kek25 -

Didn't mean to sound like smart *** but from my own experience you can't tell what's up ahead of you in the dark, especially on the water at night with out the appropriate lighting. Just a heads up.


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## Swamp Monster

Casey,
Powers is a great shop! We got ours from them. They also have a shop in Newaygo right down town. They will let you demo what ever you want. Their prices were competitive but they give great show prices in the spring. One of the sons has an outdoor adventure co and they do a number of outings each year for all skill levels. Good people! 

Good point about the port/starboard colored lights on the bow. I've never used them on any of my canoes or my yak at night but I'll have to refresh myself on the laws to be honest. Since these aren't powered craft I did not thnk they needed the bow lights but I could very well be wrong!!


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## Swamp Monster

No need for red/green bow lights on non powered craft under 26ft long. A handheld flashlight is sufficient. Thats what I had thought. Only need a white light when anchored on great lakes and connecting water. Still a good idea to use a light of some kind on your yak!
http://www.boat-ed.com/mi/handbook/lights.htm


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## kek25

caseyj said:


> kek25 -
> 
> Didn't mean to sound like smart *** but from my own experience you can't tell what's up ahead of you in the dark, especially on the water at night with out the appropriate lighting. Just a heads up.


 
I didn't take it as a smart *** comment at all Casey. Safety is an over- riding element when it comes to the paddle sports. All of the seasoned paddlers I've spoken to can't stress that enough, and it is often the first topic of conversation that is brought up by seasoned paddlers when I seek information from them. Thanks for bringing the issue of lighting up. I really meant "good point."


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## Putman Lake Campground

Swamp Monster said:


> No need for red/green bow lights on non powered craft under 26ft long. A handheld flashlight is sufficient. Thats what I had thought. Only need a white light when anchored on great lakes and connecting water. Still a good idea to use a light of some kind on your yak!
> http://www.boat-ed.com/mi/handbook/lights.htm


Too Keep the weight down you might consider LED's like the Amish use on their buggies. Thus allowing a much smaller battery without compromising lighting ability, and increasing longevity. I'd go to the Amish and use the lights they use. I have bought a number of junk LED's. Some from the Amish shops. They have a new set that is D cell powered. PRetty spectacular. if they don't have the appropriate colors (green is the concern) then simply that green lens tape would work to make it green. Either way, make sure the lights are the lights known to work (aka actually being used by the amish). I have 3 $30.00 dollar LED lights in the garage that lasted less than an hour, and umpteen junk LED flashlights. (Maglight LED's are reliable)


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## Zofchak

These are the LED lights I use on my kayak. They are really bright, waterproof and the battery lasts a long time. They have a built in clip that I snap onto my anchor trolley lines so that I can turn them on from my seat and use the trolley to move them to the front of the kayak. 

http://www.essentialgear.com/store/p/61-Guardian.html


For the rear light I use a white Egear LED light stick called a "Lazer stick". Unfortunately its no longer available, but there are others that are similar. Since I carry several rods I simply clip this light about 4 or 5 feet up on one of the spare rods and place it in the rear rod holder. That way it's visible from all directions.

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/13382,3096R_eGear-Lazer-Stick-LED-Light.html


Also I always carry a high powered LED flashlight around my neck, or a have an LED headlamp on to signal approaching boats if necessary.


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## Swamp Monster

Putman Lake Campground said:


> Too Keep the weight down you might consider LED's like the Amish use on their buggies. Thus allowing a much smaller battery without compromising lighting ability, and increasing longevity. I'd go to the Amish and use the lights they use. I have bought a number of junk LED's. Some from the Amish shops. They have a new set that is D cell powered. PRetty spectacular. if they don't have the appropriate colors (green is the concern) then simply that green lens tape would work to make it green. Either way, make sure the lights are the lights known to work (aka actually being used by the amish). I have 3 $30.00 dollar LED lights in the garage that lasted less than an hour, and umpteen junk LED flashlights. (Maglight LED's are reliable)


All my lights are led's. I have some similar to what Zofchak posted. I believe mine are from REI I think. Made primarily for mountain biking. Same with the AAA handheld flashlight....far brighter and lighter than the AA Maglight leds. The amish lamps are a pretty interesting idea however. As long as I could black out a portion to make them directional (to preserve night vision). 
I like Zofchaks idea about the light sticks up high on a spare fishing rod....sits higher than my flag pole. Heck, I could clip some light flagging on one during the day for that matter. Good idea, thanks!

On my Ultimate, I have considered a coupe of small marine led rope lights mounted under the gunnels to light up the bottom of the boat without wrecking my night vision. They don't use much power. Led's don't seem to draw the bugs as bad as well.


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## Willi_H2O

Often lights can be "separated" on a white card
for better visibility of the green and red.

http://arcnav.com/images/4g-bow-frontal1-big.jpg

Coast Guard will check kayaks for lights and give tickets
as well as the Marine Sheriff patrol boats

Make sure you at least have a flashlight, minimum.

Genuine Coast Guard approved reflective tape "SOLAS" might help as well
http://www.identi-tape.com/solas.html


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## caseyj

For those of you who ventured out into Lake Mich to fish, what other safety aids do you take with you? I would suggest a bell or whistle if you get caught up in the fog, a compass to know which way shore is, a VHF or cell phone to call for assistance, or what else? 

What type of life jacket do you recommend or what do you wear no matter what type of water you are on? Do you carry any type of survival gear on board ? Just some thoughts.


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## Willi_H2O

Follow the Coast Guard rules for a _vessel_ or 
--take your chances loosing your life

Basically be able to take severe dunking at any time
and get yourself out of the situation you've created.

Great Lakes USA Coast Guard Ninth District is based
out of Cleveland, Ohio and operates for all 5 Great Lakes
-the St Lawrence seaway, and the surrounding states.
IT WILL take a good amount of time before they act.
Count on a few hours being in the water.....

How long can you bob-up-and-down when the wind and 
waves has blown you boat and paddles out of your hands and you are all alone ?

If it ain't in a pocket tethered to to your PFD
kiss it goodbye in a majority of cases - you're fubar.
Flares, VHF radio, compass, GPS don't do you a bit
of good if they flew off the boat in a capsize.

Google "Helicopter rescue of boaters" for a better look

Oh yeah --- kiss your boat bye , bye too - USA Coast guard won't get your kayak
- some other fella is going to find a free boat at your personal loss


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## caseyj

Holli -

Good response. Sounds like maybe you've been there?

As a side note, I used to live in Holly and was a charter member of the Holly Volunteer Ambulance. Long time ago. Nice community.


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## caseyj

Willi - Sorry about the mis spell of your handle. My fingers are not always in tune with my brain.


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## Beaversson

What great info guys!! i'm a long time kayaker and i'm happy to see that no one is bashing sit inside. (this happens alot) I love the idea of all the storage and the stability of the sot variety but i dont like a wet butt or having to wear extra gear. Both are great and that kayak is the best thing i ever bought!! if you do use a sit inside you do need some training but since i was on the emu kayak clum in college i'm all set.


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## Beaversson

I am interested in those boats with the wheel in the hull! every year i have to fix the keel with epoxy because i grind down the plastic on the back of the boat and it leaks. I'm going to go do that today in fact. This time i'm adding fiberglass mat it may last longer!


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## caseyj

I received an e-mail today from Powers Outdoors and it stated that the Coosa will be displayed at the boat show in GR. It was encouraged that if anyone is interested, that they purchase now vs. waiting for the warmer weather as they are getting harder to get due to the demand. Also, their store in Montague has been closed and the Newago store is their primary outlet. They are also giving a $200 store credit during the boat show period but I don't think that can be applied towards the purchase of the Coosa at $995.00.


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## Swamp Monster

caseyj said:


> They are also giving a $200 store credit during the boat show period but I don't think that can be applied towards the purchase of the Coosa at $995.00.


I'm not sure. We purchased our two Natives last year at the show and paid in full (we had to order them) and we received $200 off the regular boat price. Was a good deal. Also got a deal on a couple of good lightweight paddles. Had been pricing the Ultimates and nobody was close to that price. I'm thinking of driving up Sunday just to check out the Coosa myself. When I purchased mine I wanted to demo a couple of other boats and they said no problem, If I changed my mind after the demo's they would just apply the money to the different boat and the discount would still apply. Good folks to deal with. In past years they have also had a weekend symposium with lessons etc


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## Willi_H2O

Not everything you own floats.
Few things are truly waterproof !

Keep stuff off the water using gear retracters
Take a lesson from the SCUBA folks 

http://www.gearkeeper.com/scuba/knives.html

Many items are expensive VHF radios, GPS units,
Knives, LeatherMan, Flashlights, etc., etc.

Don't loose your gear !


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## Willi_H2O

If the paddles can be clicked to a few degrees off center
- do it to avoid pushing the air on every stroke.

When it gets windy, you'll slice thru the air.

Remember that it's a punching forward motion
-- not a pulling motion on the paddles.










The punch is a crossing blow, one that goes over the centerline of the kayak.

As you finish thrusting forward , the elbow is slightly bent and your body is rotated.
The wrist and forearm should end up at eye level, like checking a wrist watch for time.
*This winding/unwinding of the entire body* similar to the coiling/uncoiling of a large spring
is what actually creates paddling power.


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## Swamp Monster

Those keepers come in handy for lots of other uses in the outdoors too!

I use a number of carabiners tied with paracord for things like rod leashes, tackle bag leash, dry bag leash, pliers etc. Anything that I don't want sinking to the bottom or getting away from the boat during an accident gets leashed. It's easy to do and with a little thought, the leashes don't get in the way. I'd hate to dump $500 worth of fishing rods from their rod holder in the case of a mishap....not to mention all the terminal tackle. I keep my tackle bags zipped.


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## Willi_H2O

Getting a foot caught in a tether might be dangerous
-- retracters avoid lines laying around for entanglement


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## Willi_H2O

SPLASH proof -okay
Maybe a quick dunk - you may get lucky.

http://bit.ly/bagFail

Submerge a dry bag, like getting one stuck
under a capsized boat for a few minutes
---water will begin to seep into them.

Don't believe me - try it in your bathtub.
Fill enough water to completely submerge the bag.
Put a brick onto it, to keep it under the water.
If air bubbles get out, the water can get in....

Read the paperwork that comes with a new dry bag
- ALL will say ""not to be submerged""

A dry bag may float for a little while, but the waves
will pound on it and the water will get into them.

My vote for sensitive electronics - cell phone, camera, etc.
A dry box like the Pelican Brand with a snap tight
mechanism that is bomb proof for water.


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## Swamp Monster

Willi_H2O said:


> SPLASH proof -okay
> Maybe a quick dunk - you may get lucky.
> 
> http://bit.ly/bagFail
> 
> Submerge a dry bag, like getting one stuck
> under a capsized boat for a few minutes
> ---water will begin to seep into them.
> 
> Don't believe me - try it in your bathtub.
> Fill enough water to completely submerge the bag.
> Put a brick onto it, to keep it under the water.
> If air bubbles get out, the water can get in....
> 
> Read the paperwork that comes with a new dry bag
> - ALL will say ""not to be submerged""
> 
> A dry bag may float for a little while, but the waves
> will pound on it and the water will get into them.
> 
> My vote for sensitive electronics - cell phone, camera, etc.
> A dry box like the Pelican Brand with a snap tight
> mechanism that is bomb proof for water.



Pelican boxes are the only way to go for electronics and camera gear etc, I agree....expensive but cheap insurance!

The dry bags I have used are the heavy duty PVC boundary water bags from Cabelas. They are indeed submergeable but most are not. I have tested and as long as you close them properly they are water tight. I have not however had one submerged for more than about 20 minutes though. They've also been tested on a couple of week long Ontario canoe trips and passed the muster of multiple dunkings and heavy rain. Nice bags but they would not take the place of a Pelican box. 

Good point about the leashes. They are very short and behind me for the rods and in the front of the boat for tackle. I don't have any around my feet or my arms etc. I could easily see how that could become a dire situation though!! I always have a knife securely attached on me when on the water in any vessel....never know when you might need to free yourself from something.


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## Willi_H2O

Animals will chew thru a dry bag with granola bars,
your lunch, supplies and your trip can be ruined.

Beware the micro-bears that look like chipmunks, squirrels !

Those boxes exist for some very very good reasons.


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## caseyj

It looks like I will be purchasing from Powers in Newago. My thoughts would be to put in at that location and paddle to Muskegon. Anyone made that trip? If it gets to late, I could always call the wife and have her pick me up at Bridgton or Maple Island. Ideas/advice?


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## hnt4food

I have been fishing and hunting out of kayaks since 1987 and have had the opportunity to use many kayaks over the years. In my opinion, the best all around hunting and fishing kayak is the Ultimate 14.5 tandem by Native Watercraft. The 14.5 offers a great line for tracking while the tunnel hull offers superb stability. The tandem allows for a passenger if it is ever called for, but with the removable seats, the Ultimate 14.5 tandem can readilly be turned into a one person vessel. It is a low rider with a completely open cockpit which allows for a lot of gear to be carried and accessed easily. Though it does ride low, about 4 inches from the waterline when loaded, it is very stable and keeps the water out very well. Even in fairly rough water.
Sure there are plenty of good kayaks out there, but speaking from almost 25 years of experience, I have a pretty good idea about what fishing and hunting from a kayak is all about and would highly recommend at least looking into the Native Watercraft Ultimate 14.5. 
Waders can be worn, as I do so myself from time to time, but extreme caution must be used and I do not recommend it to beginners.
LED lights are great. Light weight and a lot of options to choose from.
The Ultimate 14.5 tandem is not cheap,,coming in around $1200, but is worth every penny. I own or have owned several other kayaks and rarely do they get wet. I do everything in the Native. I spend time on the water at least 5 days a week once the ice melts, and even in the winter, if I find open water, I kayak a couple times a week. There is now open water in front of my house and the kayak gets wet this evening. Should be putting some nice slab crappies on the stringer next week.
Good luck and I hope you find the one that is right for you.


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## Swamp Monster

caseyj said:


> It looks like I will be purchasing from Powers in Newago. My thoughts would be to put in at that location and paddle to Muskegon. Anyone made that trip? If it gets to late, I could always call the wife and have her pick me up at Bridgton or Maple Island. Ideas/advice?


Which boat did you end up with? Not sure how long that paddle is but it will depend on the water level. This time of year it's usually very swift! Are you having powers drop it in for your maiden voyage instead of toting it home with a vehicle? The guys at Powers can surely give you some time estimates if they have the current cfm numbers from the MO. I would think that is a pretty ambitious paddle for the maiden voyage but thats depends on your experience level etc. Would make for a nice run though!
Congrats on the new rig!! Get us some pics!


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## Swamp Monster

Willi_H2O said:


> Animals will chew thru a dry bag with granola bars,
> your lunch, supplies and your trip can be ruined.
> 
> Beware the micro-bears that look like chipmunks, squirrels !
> 
> Those boxes exist for some very very good reasons.



:lol: We never had problems with the chipmonks and the squirrels....but take it from experience, Raccoons can make short work of rubbermaid containers! And worse yet, it only takes a couple of them tearing through your cache to sound like one very large and hungry Black Bear!! :SHOCKED:


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## caseyj

Swamp Monster said:


> Which boat did you end up with? Not sure how long that paddle is but it will depend on the water level. This time of year it's usually very swift! Are you having powers drop it in for your maiden voyage instead of toting it home with a vehicle? The guys at Powers can surely give you some time estimates if they have the current cfm numbers from the MO. I would think that is a pretty ambitious paddle for the maiden voyage but thats depends on your experience level etc. Would make for a nice run though!
> Congrats on the new rig!! Get us some pics!


Right now I'm undecided between the Coosa or the Manta Ray 14.5. I plan on doing this sometime late Spring as you have already noted the river is high and fast. If I wait longer the days will be longer and I can take advantage of the longer day light. If need be, I can always camp for the night. There are so many things to consider as far as color, PDF's, paddles, weight, length, etc. I'll keep you folks posted. Thank you for the interest.


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## Unclered

New and getting rigged.....


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## Westlakedrive

Can you stand up in the natives?
That would be one advantage of the Coosa.
I think I would like to get one with foot propulsion but cant see forking out the extra $600.


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## Swamp Monster

Westlakedrive said:


> Can you stand up in the natives?
> That would be one advantage of the Coosa.
> I think I would like to get one with foot propulsion but cant see forking out the extra $600.


Yes the Native Ultimates were designed for stand up flyfishing in the gulf flats. There are a bunch of youtube videos of guys using the Ultimate...even standing in the Ultimate on moving water! Search quiet water films. The peddle system is nice but it is very pricey. A 12ft Ultimate runs $900-$1000 but the Propel version runs up past $2k at some shops! My fiance has the 12ft Ultimate propel, I think she paid around $1600 with the spring show price last year. She loves it. It was worth it to her but she'd rather peddle than paddle. 
I like the Coosa, great features, one of the nicest fish friendly rigs to hit the market. It's designed primarily for moving water and reports I've read about still water paddling and handling were not very favorable. If moving water is your main use, this rig should be at the top of any list.


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## TC-fisherman

Unclered said:


> New and getting rigged.....


shopping for similar. Mind telling where you bought and price? 

thanks


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## Westlakedrive

Swamp Monster said:


> Yes the Native Ultimates were designed for stand up flyfishing in the gulf flats. There are a bunch of youtube videos of guys using the Ultimate...even standing in the Ultimate on moving water! Search quiet water films. The peddle system is nice but it is very pricey. A 12ft Ultimate runs $900-$1000 but the Propel version runs up past $2k at some shops! My fiance has the 12ft Ultimate propel, I think she paid around $1600 with the spring show price last year. She loves it. It was worth it to her but she'd rather peddle than paddle.
> I like the Coosa, great features, one of the nicest fish friendly rigs to hit the market. It's designed primarily for moving water and reports I've read about still water paddling and handling were not very favorable. If moving water is your main use, this rig should be at the top of any list.


Not really into moving water as much. IT would be nice to have the abillity to anchor for river trips etc. However, most my time will be lake fishing. 
Currently I troll a lot thats why peddle power would be nice. I probably will hit Muskegon and check out the Hobies and go to Newaygo to check out the Navigators.


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## Swamp Monster

If you like the peddle powered SOT's like the Hobies, give the Native Mariner 12.5 a look as well. It's a Propel powered SOT so self bailing and all that prefered by many fisherman. You can also get a "Volt" package for it with a trolling motor. It is also stable enough to stand in. It is not a lightweight boat but if you are car topping you take the seat and the propel unit out and that drops about 25#'s Both the Propel and the Hobie fins have their pros and cons but the Native seat is far, far more comfortable than any of the Hobie seat except for maybe the Hobie Pro Angler which is more peddel powered bass boat that kayak. (but a sweet fishing rig!)
The kicker will be finding a mariner in stock to see in person or demo....good luck. Oh, and it is expensive.....but street pricing is usually less than msrp. 

Here's a link to the Mariner
http://www.nativewatercraft.com/mariner_12_propel.cfm


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## Unclered

TC-fisherman said:


> shopping for similar. Mind telling where you bought and price?
> 
> thanks


I got mine in Saline, south of Ann Arbor......

However, I called BackCountry Outfitters in TC and they HAVE them in stock there. They have the Ultimate 12's, the Marvel and Ultimates 14.5 (like mine) in olive green and yellow.

Stop in and have a look. Price for the 14.5 is $1099.

I have both the 12 and 14.5 and I can stand in both (I'm turning 64) but standing in the 14.5 is much easier. I also have a seat riser under my seat so standing and sitting is a breeze.

Just check out the 1st Class seat in these boats, probably the best you will find anywhere.

My daughter moved to TC this winter and I expect to be visiting on a regular basis. of course I will have my yaks with me....


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## Westlakedrive

Swamp Monster said:


> If you like the peddle powered SOT's like the Hobies, give the Native Mariner 12.5 a look as well. It's a Propel powered SOT so self bailing and all that prefered by many fisherman. You can also get a "Volt" package for it with a trolling motor. It is also stable enough to stand in. It is not a lightweight boat but if you are car topping you take the seat and the propel unit out and that drops about 25#'s Both the Propel and the Hobie fins have their pros and cons but the Native seat is far, far more comfortable than any of the Hobie seat except for maybe the Hobie Pro Angler which is more peddel powered bass boat that kayak. (but a sweet fishing rig!)
> The kicker will be finding a mariner in stock to see in person or demo....good luck. Oh, and it is expensive.....but street pricing is usually less than msrp.
> 
> Here's a link to the Mariner
> http://www.nativewatercraft.com/mariner_12_propel.cfm


I think for sure if money were no object that would be the boat.


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