# Managed waterfowl area draw changes/covid



## BumpRacerX

wavie said:


> Good luck trying to get picked in Missouri as an out of state hunter.
> Better chance that Michigan wins the national football title next spring.


I looked at Missouri last year. Can confirm basically what you just wrote. Was thinking...hmmm...finally take the family to Branson for a few days...then shift to an area where I can duck hunt their draws.

Started reading about it and went...nope. 

Our system is the best system I can find for a draw experience.


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## craigrh13

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> we absolutely do not want to go to online draws...it will be a totally regretful move. sounds great on paper...but the hands off approach will carry over into every other aspect of the experience.
> 
> btw, indiana's managed areas and draw system is EXACTLY what we don't want to move to. lol. its horrible.
> 
> when most OOS hunters experience our system...they leave very envious of what we have. keep that in mind. I know a couple guys that fly here from california for 2 weeks every year just to hunt our managed areas. lol


We really do have a simple and FAIR setup.


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## BumpRacerX

Ken Martin said:


> It takes time and money for the software to be implemented.
> 
> No money
> No time


Thought about that last night. Started sketching it out on paper. Thinking about how it would work. Fantasy Football draft with the autopick turned on. Wouldn't be super hard to code. And then went...yeah...the state would take 3 years and 2.8 million dollars to develop this. And when it was all done COVID would be over and we'd be stuck with a crappy system that ended up giving me zone 3 at NQP over and over again. 

Plus a $5 administration fee for every day you wanted to enter the draw. 

I could see a mandatory pre-registration happening. Register online by midnight for the AM draw. Randomize entrants for pre-determined pick time. Enter building one at a time and pick what's left. If you don't pre-register you show up 30 minutes later form a line first come first serve of the leftovers. 

But again...something like this takes time and money for the state to develop. Not happening.


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## Ken Martin

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> we absolutely do not want to go to online draws...it will be a totally regretful move. sounds great on paper...but the hands off approach will carry over into every other aspect of the experience.


Many people I talk with wish that they ONLY had the draws pulling balls out of a bucket. It allows for full transparency.


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## Shiawassee_Kid

Ken Martin said:


> Many people I talk with wish that they ONLY had the draws pulling balls out of a bucket. It allows for full transparency.


absolutely agree. have never liked the computer pre-picked numbering packets. i think it took away from what the draw is all about.


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## Sampsons_owner

While I agree with not liking the 5 or 6 packets due to people knowing the order after a few draws. I like the Random select by computer that some areas have gone to. For nostalgia they could do the ball selection for the reserve hunts since they know they have 35 parties or a few less for no shows. And while they announce the rules they can draw them in plain sight. Steve


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## Ken Martin

Here is Harsens Island Waterfowl Hunter Association's response to the DNR.


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## Ken Martin

Actually I forgot to put a quote in there.

"give something up.. it's tough to get back" - John Schafer MDNR-Retired


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## Sampsons_owner

Ken Martin said:


> Actually I forgot to put a quote in there.
> 
> "give something up.. it's tough to get back" - John Schafer MDNR-Retired


Which is why I have taken a lets "Leave it alone and just not allow more than one group in the building at a time". If we change it or they like one of your suggestions we may be screwed. I have stood in the line outside at Fish Pt and we can do it again. Steve


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## BumpRacerX

Ken Martin said:


> Actually I forgot to put a quote in there.
> 
> "give something up.. it's tough to get back" - John Schafer MDNR-Retired


Thank you for sharing the power point presentation.

Love that people are offering suggestions and things of that nature. I have no skin in the game and just started hunting bingos last year. The big question I had from the power point was why offer up any type of a concession at all? If I'm a State Manager that power point reads as different options to save money and cut back on things. It implies hunters are ready to accept less access and usage. 

In negotations you never want to be the first one to offer something outside of your starting point. If you do...it rarely ends up good if the other party is highly motivated to not work to your favor.


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## BumpRacerX

Sampsons_owner said:


> Which is why I have taken a lets "Leave it alone and just not allow more than one group in the building at a time". If we change it or they like one of your suggestions we may be screwed. I have stood in the line outside at Fish Pt and we can do it again. Steve


This. 

They may turn everything into MWW. I thought MWW was one of the coolest experiences ever. A chance to hunt fields without having to ask for permission from a million people saying no. Hunted it once, bought silos layouts etc as a result. Will make the 3 hour drive and try it again this year. 

But man...having the place open Tuesday/Saturday kinda stinks. Would get utilized a lot more if people could make a full weekend out of it.


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## Ken Martin

The DNR gave the members from CWAC seven options (what is shown on the calendars and their wording in the upper left corner) and we were tasked to rank them in order of preference.

None of the options came from hunters or the stakeholder groups.

Ken


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## BumpRacerX

Ken Martin said:


> The DNR gave the members from CWAC seven options (what is shown on the calendars and their wording in the upper left corner) and we were tasked to rank them in order of preference.
> 
> None of the options came from hunters or the stakeholder groups.
> 
> Ken


Ah gotcha. So these are the seven options that keep floating around in chats and such. Sounds like we're losing something then. Just a matter of what.

Appreciate the clarification.


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## Ken Martin

No problem.

I think we all know that no one wants less hunting anywhere.

Ken


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## craigrh13

Sampsons_owner said:


> Which is why I have taken a lets "Leave it alone and just not allow more than one group in the building at a time". If we change it or they like one of your suggestions we may be screwed. I have stood in the line outside at Fish Pt and we can do it again. Steve


As of now....nobody will be allowed in the building.DNR staff currently can’t be in the building.


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## Ken Martin

Sampsons_owner said:


> If we change it or *they like one of your suggestions* we may be screwed.


Again,

Not mine or HIWHA's suggestions.

Ken


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## craigrh13

BumpRacerX said:


> Ah gotcha. So these are the seven options that keep floating around in chats and such. Sounds like we're losing something then. Just a matter of what.
> 
> Appreciate the clarification.


DNR upper echelon came up with these
options that HAVE to align to Whitmers Safe Start BS. The DNR isn’t really the bad guy here...it’s Whitmer.


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## Sampsons_owner

craigrh13 said:


> DNR upper echelon came up with these
> options that HAVE to align to Whitmers Safe Start BS. The DNR isn’t really the bad guy here...it’s Whitmer.


She hand picked the head of the MUCC to be the head of the DNR so he is her "Boy" in all this. Havent seen anything to make me think he is swaying her in our favor. Time will tell though. And I am so hoping for not much change. We as hunters pump so much money into this state it is a no brainer to not do anything to hinder us in our pursuits. Steve


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## craigrh13

Sampsons_owner said:


> She hand picked the head of the MUCC to be the head of the DNR so he is her "Boy" in all this. Havent seen anything to make me think he is swaying her in our favor. Time will tell though. And I am so hoping for not much change. We as hunters pump so much money into this state it is a no brainer to not do anything to hinder us in our pursuits. Steve


Yes. I do agree that guy is definitely an issue. But I also know that there’s people under him that have no choice but to follow along. It’s been a pretty messed up ordeal all the way around. Where’s Russ Mason when we need him?! It sucked losing him.


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## Matttski

Sampsons_owner said:


> While I agree with not liking the 5 or 6 packets due to people knowing the order after a few draws. I like the Random select by computer that some areas have gone to. For nostalgia they could do the ball selection for the reserve hunts since they know they have 35 parties or a few less for no shows. And while they announce the rules they can draw them in plain sight. Steve


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## craigrh13

Matttski said:


> Ask Sampson's owner he gave a laughing review everyone knows post. Ask stakeholders. Bad Optics. Now the 5 people commenting are turtles


I nor anybody I know has ever thought the draws were rigged.


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## Sampsons_owner

Sampsons_owner said:


> While I agree with not liking the 5 or 6 packets due to people knowing the order after a few draws. I


First time Ive ever quoted my own post but here is the explanation of my comment on the packets.

The packets had multiple copies of draw orders i each one. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to write down the numbers in order on a few draws, or every one for those locals who are there am and pm. And now you have a good idea of which number you want to be. Been there. Seen it happen and dont need to elaborate. Last year at least one or more used a Random computer draw program and I liked it better. Steve


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## Urriah

Sampsons_owner said:


> First time Ive ever quoted my own post but here is the explanation of my comment on the packets.
> 
> The packets had multiple copies of draw orders i each one. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to write down the numbers in order on a few draws, or every one for those locals who are there am and pm. And now you have a good idea of which number you want to be. Been there. Seen it happen and dont need to elaborate. Last year at least one or more used a Random computer draw program and I liked it better. Steve


The packets just have printouts of the Random Excel draw...have you personally gone through the packets to verify what you're saying happens is happening? If so, name names and stop beating around the bush. I can assure you something like that would be taken seriously at any of the managed areas.


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## goose schatt

eyedhitit said:


> How could they be rigged?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Like most, I’ve done good and bad in the draw...

I’ve also been very fortunate in the last ten years on the reserved hunts. First I’ve heard of “rigged” draw.

It feels even more rewarding to have a successful or better yet, outstanding Hunt on a “poor” draw.


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## Big Frank 25

Urriah said:


> The packets just have printouts of the Random Excel draw...have you personally gone through the packets to verify what you're saying happens is happening? If so, name names and stop beating around the bush. I can assure you something like that would be taken seriously at any of the managed areas.


If sheets for every combination of numbers were piled up. For draws of; 1-25, 1-50, 1-75, 1-100 etc. How high would the piles be? Once one sheet is removed, is it replaced? If not the next draw is not so random. I like the bingo balls.


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## eyedhitit

goose schatt said:


> Like most, I’ve done good and bad in the draw...
> 
> I’ve also been very fortunate in the last ten years on the reserved hunts. First I’ve heard of “rigged” draw.
> 
> It feels even more rewarding to have a successful or better yet, outstanding Hunt on a “poor” draw.


True. Weather and neighbors can dictate a hunt. . My favorite hunt was a leftover afternoon hunt in the scramble 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## goose schatt

What’s the deal with the $5 draw application?
I already applied...if it’s not happening, is there a refund?

I don’t have the confidence in the state to appropriate my $5 after reading some of the details from the more informed forum members.

Not that I am really worried about the $5
But I’m pissed off....


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## Shiawassee_Kid

1. there will be draws.
2. i don't think you will see any shutdowns/limits on days.

you go to less outings/days, its just gonna bring out more hunters to each draw which in turn will expose more people and go against covid policy recommendations. I believe you will see different ways to handle this that won't be too much trouble. its really not that hard to do, not sure what the fuss is about. regular businesses have been doing it since march.


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## just ducky

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> 1. there will be draws.
> 2. i don't think you will see any shutdowns/limits on days.
> 
> you go to less outings/days, its just gonna bring out more hunters to each draw which in turn will expose more people and go against covid policy recommendations. I believe you will see different ways to handle this that won't be too much trouble. its really not that hard to do, not sure what the fuss is about. regular businesses have been doing it since march.


yeah that


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## TheHighLIfe

Thank you for sharing

wishing my dear friend and cwac member had not passed away. am sure he is rolling in his grave. I know he shared my input with cwac, and feel that my common sense way of stating things perhaps helped get two significant changes in regulations

might this help here?

so, if any cwac member reads this, I have to ask why there is a search for covid drawing solutions when we already have had 'covid style' drawings in the 1970's, and have basically 'been right about there' for years at one of the 7ww's

in the 70's, you briefly checked in to the allegan highbanks unit, then walked your butt to your car until draw time. drawing order was announced via loudspeaker to hunters sitting in cars

fennville has a drive thru window. you are allowed to enter the barn and wait for the draw - done using a poor PA system (totally impossible to hear anything said, rude hunters talking and joking and not paying attention - and 'the voice' has been someone who is not a crisp communicator). to be covid, point the PA system to hunters in their cars

all 7ww's have the ability to replicate how cvs/gas stations/retail stores are being 'covid safe' (and how many bank teller windows have been for decades)

build a 'cashier safe' check in (plexiglass window above a counter with a slot to push in licenses and receive draw cards when checking in, and then push in draw cards and receive zone permit copy) place it in the doorway

allow one person to check the group in, or one person passing in all licenses with the rest of the group standing 6 feet back if you want to ensure all 4 members are not each getting a number

put X's every 6 feet to stand in line (we all certainly now know what an X on the floor means)

announce the rules and draw order to people sitting in cars using a loud speaker

have one member of the group choose their spot. groups can 'pass' by just not getting in line

as to hunters seeing the zone map (what is taken and what is available) the map can be seen from the door at Harsen's Island, mww and one door at fish point (I believe). others could have a flip chart right behind them, and cross out zone numbers as they are taken. that might require each group to get one, and only one, map of the area - but restaurants have been doing this

not sure why the 7 options represent 'throwing the baby out with the bath water'

doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that all we need is to tweak some things the managed units and many businesses are doing (tho a rocket scientist might have their hands full explaining basics to our gov)

these options are kind of an insult to the intelligence of the managed area staffs and the hunters. we can certainly figure things out


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## Shiawassee_Kid

yup its not hard. the state/dnr are making this out to be harder than it is.


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## Far Beyond Driven

Fennville has the cards on the wall in a separate room all but impossible to see. This has been an issue for years and adding a window is against fire code or something. However it would be easy enough that they could print extra maps, and then call off what zone each party picked before they call in the next group. "Party 13. Party 21 next. Party 13 took 8h. Party 07 next. Party 21 took 5d..." You could cross out the zones on your map as they are taken.

Long term they could add a monitor in the main room like Shiawassee and just have a program where they could broadcast a map and click and color the zones as they were picked. I could write something crude but functional up in Excel in an hour.


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## Shiawassee_Kid

Far Beyond Driven said:


> Fennville has the cards on the wall in a separate room all but impossible to see. This has been an issue for years and adding a window is against fire code or something. However it would be easy enough that they could print extra maps, and then call off what zone each party picked before they call in the next group. "Party 13. Party 21 next. Party 13 took 8h. Party 07 next. Party 21 took 5d..." You could cross out the zones on your map as they are taken.
> 
> Long term they could add a monitor in the main room like Shiawassee and just have a program where they could broadcast a map and click and color the zones as they were picked. I could write something crude but functional up in Excel in an hour.


fm broadcaster is still the best idea out. i have no idea why they aren't goin for it. it about $200 and local clubs would pay for it. then all you do is check in at a window. get a card. go sit in car and listen to the radio. yer number gets called u walk up to window and pick a zone. it doesn't get any easier than this. i dont know whats so hard about it?


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## Far Beyond Driven

My church had an am broadcast system in place in like two weeks. Didn't cost much either.


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## craigrh13

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> fm broadcaster is still the best idea out. i have no idea why they aren't goin for it. it about $200 and local clubs would pay for it. then all you do is check in at a window. get a card. go sit in car and listen to the radio. yer number gets called u walk up to window and pick a zone. it doesn't get any easier than this. i dont know whats so hard about it?


Because Covid can spread through FM radio waves....or something.


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## Ken Martin

Remember... the radio, tv screen do not pay dues. There may be contractual issue with going to a system that eliminates positions.


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## BumpRacerX

That's why I think we're losing something here. If this was going to be business as usual...there's no reason to come up with 7 options to send to the stakeholders. State is going to be facing budget shortfalls. Someone is trying to save every penny nickle and dime in operational costs. 

Business as usual is cheap to figure out.

This isn't about business as usual.


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## BumpRacerX

Ken Martin said:


> Remember... the radio, tv screen do not pay dues. There may be contractual issue with going to a system that eliminates positions.


How would a radio/tv screen eliminate positions?


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## BumpRacerX

Eh. Those employees do more than just flip tiles. If that's all they did that position would have been eliminated years ago.


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## craigrh13

BumpRacerX said:


> Eh. Those employees do more than just flip tiles. If that's all they did that position would have been eliminated years ago.


He’s referring to running the draw. 

My position has been and will always be that running the draw is even safer than being a cashier at a gas station, fast food, grocery store, etc. All of which have stayed open during this entire time. 

Private industry has this figured out and yet here is this administration struggling with the simplest of things. 

I swear between Whitmer and Dan Eichinger they are trying to ruin these managed areas. It’s a damn shame.


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## Sampsons_owner

Post number 49 by Ken Martin had it. page 4 of this thread. Steve


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## just ducky

Sampsons_owner said:


> Post number 49 by Ken Martin had it. page 4 of this thread. Steve


Thanks. Interesting. There has been lots of discussion over the years about "resting" the birds certain days or portions of days. Looks like that may happen now. I thought you guys were talking about options for holding the daily drawings, or not. Such as just open hunting, self-registration, on-line drawings, etc


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## Shiawassee_Kid

just ducky said:


> Thanks. Interesting. There has been lots of discussion over the years about "resting" the birds certain days or portions of days. Looks like that may happen now. I thought you guys were talking about options for holding the daily drawings, or not. Such as just open hunting, self-registration, on-line drawings, etc


funny that the covid options just happen to move us in that direction ain't it? such a coincidence...i mean the stars are aligning....


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## Shiawassee_Kid

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> funny that the covid options just happen to move us in that direction ain't it? such a coincidence...i mean the stars are aligning....


even if going to that one draw a day literally goes against state guidelines in increasing the gatherings. there is other jobs/positions in the dnr that have been dealing directly with the public for the last 3 months in so much more quantity and duration....than the managed areas....yet the managed areas have 7 stages to choose from... that literally ALL of the choices increase contact...but cut access.

this is state government.


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## quack&honk

I think the youth hunt and vet hunts will have minimal effect on opening days. The ducks get shot at for two days, and likely won't even be heavy pressure. Then in my case in the middle zone opener, the ducks have two weeks of ZERO pressure. It is constant pressure that educates them. They will become "uneducated" in this time. They are ducks. Don't over think it. 

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


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## just ducky

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> funny that the covid options just happen to move us in that direction ain't it? such a coincidence...i mean the stars are aligning....


You read my mind obviously


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## fsamie1

For any of 7 options, I am so curious to see how they are going to do the draw safely. They probably need to start the draw earlier than 5:30 am. PM does not matter much. Also appears each managed area is going to come up with their own procedure. I am sure John at Harsens will come up with a good plan.


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## fishdip

You guys do realize the kids can only hunt the marsh?


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## TheHighLIfe

fsamie1 said:


> For any of 7 options, I am so curious to see how they are going to do the draw safely. They probably need to start the draw earlier than 5:30 am. PM does not matter much. Also appears each managed area is going to come up with their own procedure. I am sure John at Harsens will come up with a good plan.


c'mon, samie - I need my beauty sleep!


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## TheHighLIfe

luvthewater said:


> Ha, I like it craigrh
> 
> Speaking of the youth hunts being held a couple of weeks before the Opening day… I’m probably going to sound like a Grinch here but I don’t agree with it. Please, hear me out.
> 
> Last year the Harsens Island manager reported that the pre-opening day youth hunt got MORE ducks than everyone else did on the regular opening day weekend. Something like 663 to 630. These were youths only shooting, who are likely poor shots and burning all 25 of their shells. The WORST part is they educated the ducks before the normal Opening day. The ducks were for the most part high and wary. I never got a shot all day (not that I would have hit anything).
> 
> I don’t mind letting them have opening weekend afternoon shoots (and other days) but this really messed up the only opening day at Harsens Island I have ever won. I don’t know if any others noticed the difference these pre-opening day hunts have made.



hey luv

I read your post while in the marsh and my reply wouldn't send
thought you were playing a mean September (1) Fools Joke - or had the worst case of 'failyah to kummunikate' I've ever seen (well, non politically anyways)

urriah's numbers are dead nuts accurate - I recall the kill board read 24, so there were probably 3 during the entire teal season. to have 300 kill days you need at least 8,000 in the refuge on opening day, or 12,000+ midseason (plus a migration and a heavy wind too)

they don't start flooding the corn until around October 1, so there are no birds in the refuge during youth hunt (I saw a total of 7 ducks this afternoon, maybe 30 yesterday morning but 15 were in one flock).

the only hunting is in the marsh during youth weekend. potholes are choked with vegetation, the canals to get there require mud motors

when my son qualified, I would give up cleaning off the outboard to stop 1/3 the way to the open pothole. the entire youth group would struggle to get off 25 shells between them all

663 ducks on youth weekend is maybe a 25-30 year total


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## West side shooter

Any updates?


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## craigrh13

Nope. Still waiting on the final submission to be approved by the office of the state employer. I would expect only 1 draw a day. Let’s hope I am wrong. Unfortunately, I don’t believe I am.


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## Dead Bird

I am going to assume this is a one size fits all decision for the managed areas....

does anyone know if this will come out in a DNR update or is this a hunt and peak search to get the answer...


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## craigrh13

Dead Bird said:


> I am going to assume this is a one size fits all decision for the managed areas....
> 
> does anyone know if this will come out in a DNR update or is this a hunt and peak search to get the answer...


When it comes out I am sure it will be made public. I know there’s people on standby to fight the results from the state because there is ZERO reason the state cannot hold two draws a day. They are literally screwing the hunters and increasing the risks by packing more people in tight for 1 draw a day. This whole ordeal is beyond stupid.

Then we have the budget cuts this year and what sounds like a 37% budget cut next year. It’s quite simple. This administration is killing the managed areas.

The assholes who voted for this administration screwed us all.


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## DecoySlayer

It's only going to get worse. This is only the beginning. I am a bit surprised they "went after" waterfowl hunters first, my guess was they were going to go after bear hunters first.


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## craigrh13

DecoySlayer said:


> It's only going to get worse. This is only the beginning. I am a bit surprised they "went after" waterfowl hunters first, my guess was they were going to go after bear hunters first.


The managed areas are not a money maker for the state. The areas are expensive to maintain and operate. I believe that is why they are doing it.


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## DecoySlayer

craigrh13 said:


> The managed areas are not a money maker for the state. The areas are expensive to maintain and operate. I believe that is why they are doing it.


OK, I believe otherwise. It's alright if we have different views, the end result is the same. Less money coming in. Fewer licenses sold. Fewer migratory birds stamps sold. Good chance there will be fewer ducks in the area during the migration.


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## craigrh13

DecoySlayer said:


> OK, I believe otherwise. It's alright if we have different views, the end result is the same. Less money coming in. Fewer licenses sold. Fewer migratory birds stamps sold. Good chance there will be fewer ducks in the area during the migration.


I am speaking purely from a financial point of view. 

But I believe it’s more than just financial
numbers on paper. You have the hunters it brings to the area, licenses sold, the local economy the areas support, etc. It’s the big picture they are missing. Screwing the managed areas over will have a huge negative impact all across the board. It’s a snowball effect. 

Government exists to provide a service for the people. Our money helps put for this service. They can’t look at it purely as a financial thing.


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## jiggin is livin

Matttski said:


> The Great Lakes are full of ducks. Just like fishing. Shoot a limit every hunt.


You shoot fish?


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## DecoySlayer

.


craigrh13 said:


> I am speaking purely from a financial point of view.
> 
> But I believe it’s more than just financial
> numbers on paper. You have the hunters it brings to the area, licenses sold, the local economy the areas support, etc. It’s the big picture they are missing. Screwing the managed areas over will have a huge negative impact all across the board. It’s a snowball effect.
> 
> Government exists to provide a service for the people. Our money helps put for this service. They can’t look at it purely as a financial thing.


Of course the are missing the "big picture", they are not interested in it. 

The rest? I never paid the $20.


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## lefty421

charcoal300zxtt said:


> So are 15 spinners and unlimited shells ok now at SHI? It will basically be like hunting FP on a weekend. Yay this is gonna be fun, fist fights at the boat ramps, tires getting slashed, people set up 150' from each other in the corn getting shot, **** why not just setup on the edge of the ****? I'm sure whatever the case is Brian will figure out a way to down wind everyone and sky bust there birds on the swing. Oh man government influence the best, our politicians always know whats best.


Huh? There are still rules in effect. There are still CO's out and about. We were stopped this weekend during the youth hunt by a couple CO's at Shi. one was a state CO and the other was a fed CO. They checked us for licenses, checked our guns and shells, but never asked for our hunt cards, which we had, but they never asked for... 

If you go out hunting in these managed areas expecting no rules and no CO's this year, I think you will be sadly mistaken.


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## Fatmallard

Does anyone know how the Reserved hunt at Harsens's will work opening day?


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## craigrh13




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## craigrh13

You’re allowed 6 draws a week. Wednesday pm and Thursday am will be the down days.

Monday you draw at 11am and get your zone for that afternoon hunt and the following morning am hunt. So and so forth through out the season minus the Wednesday draw. So no hunting wednesday pm and Thursday am. 

6 draws a week. 12 hunts a week. Full compliance.Maximum benefit within the rules that we are allowed.


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## daddyduck

How disappointing


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## BumpRacerX

Thanks for sharing.

Given that situation, if you miss the Monday draw, will there be a list of taken zones on Tuesday morning if you show up and want a leftover? Or are you just shafted?


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## TheHighLIfe

craigrh13 said:


> You’re allowed 6 draws a week. Wednesday pm and Thursday am will be the down days.
> 
> Monday you draw at 11am and get your zone for that afternoon hunt and the following morning am hunt. So and so forth through out the season minus the Wednesday draw. So no hunting wednesday pm and Thursday am.
> 
> 6 draws a week. 12 hunts a week. Full compliance.Maximum benefit within the rules that we are allowed.



craig

took me a bit to figure out what you are saying

I think you are saying all draws are at 11, no morning draws at all?

thus, 'weekend hunters' must be there Friday at 11, or they can't ever hunt on Saturday if they all have to work Friday?

sounds ridiculous, but I understand the world has gone crazy, and there are probably numerous executive orders to hurdle over (hope everyone disappointed in this remembers it when voting next time)

loose ends seem to be many
- what if the monday pm group has to work Tuesday am - the zone goes vacant?
- what if the monday group has 2/3/4, picks a corn zone, but only 1 can hunt Tuesday am?
- what if only 1 from the Monday group can hunt Tuesday am, can different people join?
- do all in the party have to be there for the 11am draw?
- will you be able to provide a pic of absentees at the draw - will they have to check in before hunting?
- will there be any afterdraws?
- if there is no draw for Wednesday pm and Thursday am, is the area open for scramble?
- does this mean that mww and pt mouillee crews will finally have to put in a full schedule?

most of all, what will be the going rate to sell your permit? haha
probably not funny due to the SHI jerks

I will probably have more questions, but I think I will try to guess at whether this will create masses at draws, or drive people to say screw you and take a year off


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## craigrh13

TheHighLIfe said:


> craig
> 
> took me a bit to figure out what you are saying
> 
> I think you are saying all draws are at 11, no morning draws at all?
> 
> thus, 'weekend hunters' must be there Friday at 11, or they can't ever hunt on Saturday if they all have to work Friday?
> 
> sounds ridiculous, but I understand the world has gone crazy, and there are probably numerous executive orders to hurdle over (hope everyone disappointed in this remembers it when voting next time)
> 
> loose ends seem to be many
> - what if the monday pm group has to work Tuesday am - the zone goes vacant?
> - what if the monday group has 2/3/4, picks a corn zone, but only 1 can hunt Tuesday am?
> - what if only 1 from the Monday group can hunt Tuesday am, can different people join?
> - do all in the party have to be there for the 11am draw?
> - will you be able to provide a pic of absentees at the draw - will they have to check in before hunting?
> - will there be any afterdraws?
> - if there is no draw for Wednesday pm and Thursday am, is the area open for scramble?
> - does this mean that mww and pt mouillee crews will finally have to put in a full schedule?
> 
> most of all, what will be the going rate to sell your permit? haha
> probably not funny due to the SHI jerks
> 
> I will probably have more questions, but I think I will try to guess at whether this will create masses at draws, or drive people to say screw you and take a year off


Huh? You go to the draw on saturday at 11am you can still hunt that pm AND sunday Am.

All of the little details will be hashed out on a local level.


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## TheHighLIfe

TY, craig, for the clarification - still trying to grasp things


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## Shiawassee_Kid

keep in mind, what craig is saying is merely a response to the new rules. its not in stone yet. its the a response idea to meet guidelines.


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## Sampsons_owner

I'm thinking of a military term that begins with Cluster and ends with a K. Steve


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## craigrh13

TheHighLIfe said:


> TY, craig, for the clarification - still trying to grasp things


It’s the only way I see that we can maximize the hunts with the guidelines. 

This is not set in stone by any means. I’m sure the state will shut it down anyways.


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## Bigeejakes

craigrh13 said:


> View attachment 579547


Craig, the way I read this is that each managed area has the choice of hunting AM or PM but not both... I don't read this as 11am draw, get the zone for 24hrs.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk


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## Bigeejakes

Aren't there some states that do AM hunts only (across the whole state) in order to preserve the roost? Or did I dream that up somewhere?

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk


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## craigrh13

Bigeejakes said:


> Aren't there some states that do AM hunts only (across the whole state) in order to preserve the roost? Or did I dream that up somewhere?
> 
> Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk


We are by and large a flyover state.


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## Bigeejakes

Yeah, I don't think it's a good idea for us, I was just thinking out loud. 

I think a 1 draw for 24hr hunt system would be the best for Hunter access, if we're only allowed one draw, but from the sounds of the letter it didn't sound too negotiable.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk


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## craigrh13

Bigeejakes said:


> Craig, the way I read this is that each managed area has the choice of hunting AM or PM but not both... I don't read this as 11am draw, get the zone for 24hrs.
> 
> Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk


I don’t know. It’s just an idea. There’s lots of being ideas thrown out there. Might as well push for the most we can get. The worst they can say is no.


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## natureboy2534

Its all a bunch of bull S..T.. Stupid.
100 plus parties for 1 draw in one place..
Or 2 separate (AM/PM) draws of 50 parties in one place...


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## pancake9130

Why not have a single 'draw' at 11am, but have 2 tags for each zone? One tag for the PM hunt, and another for the following morning. So for instance, 1st pick might take section 29 for PM hunt, 2nd pick might take 29 for AM hunt, and so on.. The draw would be twice the length, but that is a very small inconvenience compared to what it could be.


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## willcory

That was my thinking as well, only thing would be is if you wanted to hunt both, but if you were going to hunt the morning draw you wouldn’t be hunting the evening draw anyways.


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## Shiawassee_Kid

Matttski said:


> Sam,
> I just checked. I reported incorrectly. By the way I enjoy ALL managed areas and our Great Lakes. Unlike SK who does not care about Harsens



wtf? care about harsens? all my friends are harsens association people...gtfo here.

i may not care about policy they use to run their season there....because i don't hunt there. but i would never, ever want harsens to not be functioning. I've hunted all east side of the state units. you do nothing but throw bombs on here. your mad at something...and i don't even care what....but dude you jumping on me every chance you get is getting old. come say it to my face. you know where to find me.


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## Shiawassee_Kid

guessing this is you?

https://www.facebook.com/matt.smokoska

are you mad i banned you from sfcha page? i mean you were talking trash about us....i'm not gonna leave you in the group if your gonna be running your mouth all time. 

i mean its only fair, everyone knows who i am. i been here for 20+ years. i ain't hiding. how about you?


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## Shiawassee_Kid

and if its not you, i'll just keep going thru the matts that worked for the dnr til i find ya.


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## craigrh13

fsamie1 said:


> We find out soon who is on his way out. No one is stupid here, you have your opinion and I have mine. I believe 200,000 plus deaths from covid-19 is real, I believe global warming is real, I believe people with pre-existing condition should be able to get health insurance, I do not believe bunch of old white men should decide about woman and etc. I understand most people here are conservatives and you put your crap in here with no backbone and no one questions you and you think you are so right.


That’s cool. You still need to educate yourself on what’s going on here locally. Your girl absolutely screwed us and if it wasn’t for the associations the areas would be nothing this year. You should consider getting involved sometime.
Oh and per the CDC only 7% of all COVID deaths were listed as the only cause. On average there’s 2.6 other causes of deaths. Just throwing that out there.

PS It is now called climate change. Not global warming.


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## DecoySlayer

fsamie1 said:


> doing blah blah again. how much was the cut this year? How many of PM staff were laid off? As far as I know, all crops were planted and some area did not grow good due to too much water. Send us the links so we learn what is going on.


Links? You have got to be kidding. The crops are important, but only for this year What about the new pumps, to replace those that no longer function? Too much water? No pumps. 800K project, not taking place. Think LONG term problems, not just today's. I believe that the new dock and ramp upgrades have been cancelled, but I have not confirmed that.

The flooding, of the crop zones will have to be done by "gravity", because the pumps no longer function. They are having to bring in a "trash pump" to flood one zone because it is up stream.


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## Urriah

fsamie1 said:


> doing blah blah again. how much was the cut this year? How many of PM staff were laid off? As far as I know, all crops were planted and some area did not grow good due to too much water. Send us the links so we learn what is going on.


Just some info for you Samie since you asked:
The cut to Wildlife Division was 90% (as in 10% remaining) of the operating budget.
All full time staff were laid off for two weeks then every Friday for 10 weeks.
No seasonal employees were hired anywhere in wildlife division this year.
The state paid for employees time, diesel and electricity this year. The clubs paid for everything else. At Harsens, the two clubs combined for over $60,000 in donations this year to make sure things got planted. If it was up to the state, even the refuge wouldn't have been planted this year, let alone the hunting zones.


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