# Mighty Muskegon



## silversides (Aug 16, 2002)

Spanky,
So your saying the reason the DNR is cutting plants is because they can't afford to pay their personelle yearly (or bi-yearly) raises? Give me a break...

I'm not bashing the DNR for raising the liscense fees $1 dollar/year, if anyone gets their money's worth, it's me. The only question I had (which wasn't answered) is where is the money going from these huge salmon cuts? Is it going to other stocking programs, is it being deposited in the fish and game fund, or is it going straight to Mark Tonello's pocket?  

As far as "most" members not caring about the raises in liscense fee, that's exactly it, they don't care. This is why the Wildlife fund gets raped every year and no one says anything about it. I'm not bashing the average fisherman, its just that alot of them really don't care where their money goes (or maybe i should say where it DOESN'T go), just as long as they are able to go catch some fish for dinner on the weekend and not get fined for it.

This is not meant to be a personal attack on you, just an informative debate.

-Ben


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## Erik (Jan 17, 2000)

I don't know about all that other stuff. All I know is I think I have alot in common with the steelhead here in MI. 
We were born here. We didn't have any choice in the matter. And no matter how many generations of our ancestors lived here before us, or come after us, no one will ever consider any of our kind to be natives.
And oh yeah I almost forgot,,, we both like rivers and cold water


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

I think asking where the money is going once the plants are cut is a fair question. Since this is technically a Muskegon River thread I could ask the question of why the DNR's Muskegon River Assessment (written in the early '90's) states the Mo could greatly benefit and sustain increased steelhead stockings yet it's been getting 50K since 1980 and no increase what so ever since the assessment was written. Drives me nuts when other rivers like the freakin' Grand are getting upwards of 80K a year. Of course, Tonello probably gets sick of me e-mailing him and giving him grief about steelhead plant numbers. :lol:


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## Spanky (Mar 21, 2001)

I know I talk too much, but did I say the DNR is cutting plants to pay their employees? Uh I don't remember that! I guess anyone could"spin on " just about anything I said. Just in case you may have missed it.

THE DNR IS CUTTING PLANTS BECAUSE THERE IS LESS FOOD FOR THE FISH!

The only plants scheduled for cutting because of cost are the COHO's. I think if you do a search, I have listed abunch of stuff that is also getting cut because of budget restraints. Hiring and training has been cut, university studies have been cut, habitat replacement, watershed studies, maintainance of educational and interperative centers has been cut, replacement of computers and other equipment has been cut. There are over 4 million dollars of stuff that has been cut.

I don't take it as a personal attack, you know what they say about shooting the messenger.

TC. You and I both know that to get more steelies in the MO, they have to come out of someone elses plants ,the majority of the time. There are anglers in each watershed or river basin who want their fish just as much as you do. Demographics and angler involvement play a big part in deciding who gets what. The department will never make everyone happy, they just have to do the best they can to make the majority of the people satisfied and to protect the native fish.

I give them alot of credit, this post alone is a good example of the kind of input that they have to put up with every day. I believe this has been primarily a DNR bashing post.


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## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

Should I or shouldn't I?

I guess I won't. All I can say to Mr. Chum, is the fishing today is better than it has ever been for trout and probably most fish.

The perch are coming back and the walleye and smallmouth are world class as is the musky fishing.

Slamon plants are down but the steelhead fishing is great. Years ago like 50 years ago you had a good year if you hooked a dozen steelhead.

Compared to most things a fishing license is a great deal. It costs me $48.00 a month just to be a member of the Y.M.C.A. and the other day it cost me $50.00 just to fill my tank.

When you grow up, you will see this as a great time for fishermen and I think it is getting better. Thanks to guys like Mark Tonello and Tom Rozich. The idea that these guys are putting any extra money in their pockets is just silly.


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## t_dog755 (Jul 31, 2005)

Steinfishski you got a pic of well alot of people fishing. i wouldl iketo know where that is so i can stay away from it.


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## stelmon (Sep 21, 2000)

If I may add, I would like to add a few things...

Usually I don't get invovled with these post but I feel I should add some stuff here. Maybe it's because I am procrastinating doing my homework or I just don't want to think about all that math crap. Or maybe it's because people are slamming our fisheries.

I would have to agree with the guy who said this is nothing but a DNR bash. To the people bashing the DNR I would like to see you do a better job. These guys are doing the best they can do. They work as hard as you do and do they best they can. Think about everything that goes on in this state. From the salmon plants, the hatcheries, the conservation officers catching poachers, ect. Go to a fish harvest, or a electro shocking. These people do not working for free. If they did, I think they would want you to work for free to. FAT CHANCE!! These people are WORKING FOR YOU to have a good fishery. That's why license go up every once in awhile. I think that 27-28 dollars we pay for every year is the best 27-28 dollars I spend a year. 

BTW, I hope you don't work for a college or something because the amount I pay to go to college SUCKS. So if you do, please lower tuition and then i'll be happy again...

My point is, be happy. Don't bitch and whine about the job people are doing for you to have a fishery. Without them, there probably would be no salmon or steelhead. 

I think this post fits best under the quote:

"You can talk the talk, but won't walk the walk"

You want to see things change, get involved. I would like to see you actually see how hard some things are in the field then just whining about it. 

Or maybe, fishing is just a little more challenging then it use to be, or some guys just don't like to work and expect everything to be handed to them.

As my quote in my sig says:

[big]SHUT UP AND FISH[/BIG]


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## Spanky (Mar 21, 2001)

good reply Dan, Good to see some of the "younger crowd" actually sees it the way it is.


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## ChumMaster (Oct 18, 2005)

*just to give you a clue i still remember late sixties, early seventies when the mo used to be hot, there was only one charter that ran that river too.

u guys still ain't answered my question?

your so involved with whats handed to you, any report given out by the DNR has to go through lansing before its published. for example, spawning, reproduction in the Grand River is actually about 5% not the numbers you have, sorry to say guys but what you read or hear from peeps is not actually the truth. Good friend of mine, retired fron the DNR a few years back. he for one says that the old dead wood( DNR) in lansing, has to go. Your licence fees go up to pay lansing saleries, they do nothing but set there and collect a pay check, while the others in the dept suffer. Basically the old trash in the dept needs to be thrown out, and let these young more aggresive kids take control..

also to they figured out a way to get rid of Zebra, and would you believe its a fish.......i have 2 friends in the(DNR) biology dept in lansing, one i have known for about 23 years, they proposed a idea that would of worked, but they went with blowing out the balasts on the ships instead which made it worse, that and the public did their damage to ( Scuba Divers ), you can blame the private scuba divers for destroying the mo-mo, they introduced the species by the bucket loads.

who can u really believe that's the problem, being involved is cool guys..


i do display a difference in opion but we are all shootin for the same goal,

i grew up in a different era, then allot of u younger aldults, i could camp on the mo - mo for a week and not see anyone, unless i stopped in town for rations. 

apologize for any inconveince,

chum,

FISH ON!!!




*


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## ChumMaster (Oct 18, 2005)

*just to give you a clue i still remember late sixties, early seventies when the mo used to be hot, there was only one charter that ran that river too.

u guys still ain't answered my question? purchase of bottled water....

your so involved with whats handed to you, any report given out by the DNR has to go through lansing before its published. for example, spawning, reproduction in the Grand River is actually about 5% not the numbers you have, sorry to say guys but what you read or hear from peeps is not actually the truth. Good friend of mine, retired fron the DNR a few years back. he for one says that the old dead wood( DNR) in lansing, has to go. Your licence fees go up to pay lansing saleries, they do nothing but set there and collect a pay check, while the others in the dept suffer. Basically the old trash in the dept needs to be thrown out, and let these young more aggresive kids take control..

also to they figured out a way to get rid of Zebra, and would you believe its a fish.......i have 2 friends in the(DNR) biology dept in lansing, one i have known for about 23 years, they proposed a idea that would of worked, but they went with blowing out the balasts on the ships instead which made it worse, that and the public did their damage to ( Scuba Divers ), you can blame the private scuba divers for destroying the mo-mo, they introduced the species by the bucket loads.

who can u really believe that's the problem, being involved is cool guys..


i do display a difference in opion but we are all shootin for the same goal,

i grew up in a different era, then allot of u younger aldults, i could camp on the mo - mo for a week and not see anyone, unless i stopped in town for rations. 

apologize for any inconveince,

chum,




*


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## Spanky (Mar 21, 2001)

LOL, don't forget about the aliens that brought us the Bovine TB, and the "whirling disease" is caused by the impoted water from venezuala!

Without getting into personal attacks, let me just admit :lol: , this has been very intertaining, and you don't need to post it more than once.


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## riverman (Jan 9, 2002)

Oh come on Spankster, Like a pair of twin ditzy blondes, twice the fun!!!!!!  Riverman


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## MPsteelheader (May 2, 2000)

ChumMaster said:


> *just to give you a clue i still remember late sixties, early seventies when the mo used to be hot, there was only one charter that ran that river too.
> 
> u guys still ain't answered my question? purchase of bottled water....
> 
> ...


you know chum...

you speak alot of scientific statistics but yet you have NO resources...

you claim you KNOW all these biologists but yet you dont give names...

you see when the dnr writes a report on a fishery's status they SITE all their findings...

now i know since you live in the Grand Rapids area and you think you are god's gift to fishing it gives you the right to make statements without siting your info...  

but dont waste my time or anyone else's time on this site because you want to be contrary...

cya on the river,

mark


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## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

Well Chum, I have been fishing the Muskegon longer than you and the steelhead fishing is overall better now than any time in the past.

Of course there are good years and years not so good, but overall it is better.

I don't know why you hate the DNR so much, but like some others have said, back up your statements or shut up.

We all know the DNR is not perfect and some politics are involved, as they are in any department, company or high school, but overall most of us think they are doing a great job with limited resources.


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## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

Why keep feeding this BS?


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## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

Good question!


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## walranger5 (May 1, 2005)

The Sturgeon Will Eat The Zebras All Day Long The D.n.r. Doesn't Want Talk About Restoring Them! The Walleye And Perch Will Eat Goby, Ruffe, Larval
Zebras, Spiney Water Fleas, Rusty Crayfish, The D.n.r. Refuses To Let Us Plant At No Cost To Them, To Bring Back The Perch And Walleye We Once Had
I'm Tired Of Sitting On A Bucket Catching Nothing, Driving All Over The State Looking For Real Fish I Have No Respect For The D.n.r.


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

walranger5 said:


> The Sturgeon Will Eat The Zebras All Day Long The D.n.r. Doesn't Want Talk About Restoring Them! QUOTE]
> 
> You might want to look at the following URL, from the MDNR's website.
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153----S,00.html


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## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

I'm glad that you admit you have no recources Speculate. That means your name fits you and no we are not interested in another TU. Perhaps you need to go there to vent your frustrations.

By the way I happen to know a couple of Thousandcast's sources and I can assure you they are top notch.

If your interested in reasonable discussion fine, if not, go away! Thanks.


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## Splitshot (Nov 30, 2000)

Mark Tonello and Tom Rozich! DNR fisheries biologist who manage NW Michigan.


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