# ******NEW Official Dove Bill Thread*****



## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

The other one was getting quite lengthy, so I thought I'd start a fresh one.

As most of you know, Sen. Shirley Johnson cancelled the committee vote on the dove bill. According to Mirsnews, here's her explanation.

_ Johnson scheduled the hearing last week after she was informed by Senate Majority Leader Ken Sikkema that the votes were there to move the bill. But a recent headcount done during Tuesday's closed-door meeting with Republican Senators showed otherwise.

"They don't have the votes" Johnson said after Tuesday's caucus. "The deal was I'd take it up if they had the votes. They don't have the votes so I'm not taking it up"

Of the 16 members on the Senate Appropriations Committee, six voted against a dove hunting bill in 2000 when they served in the House. That doesn't include Johnson, Bill Hardiman and Martha Scott who are all no votes.

And while at least two of the NO votes in 2000 were expected to be YES votes in 2003, Johnson said the YES votes she's counting isn't equaling nine, the necessary number to move the bill to the floor. _ 

I talked with Tabor's people yesterday and they assured me the votes ARE there. I'll keep you posted on any further developments.


PLEASE READ THIS: The anti-Dove hunting people are taking quotes, usually out of context, from THIS site and sending them to certain Senators. One even signed up here disguised as a hunter, made a absurd post insulting our Senators, copied the post and sent it on to all our Senators. PLEASE use discretion when making posts on this and any other subject.

Neal


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

Neal: "PLEASE READ THIS: The anti-Dove hunting people are taking quotes, usually out of context, from THIS site and sending them to certain Senators. One even signed up here disguised as a hunter, made a absurd post insulting our Senators, copied the post and sent it on to all our Senators. PLEASE use discretion when making posts on this and any other subject."

I've heard this as well...we have to always be very careful what we write on any public message board, for that matter, any email as well. Please remember that you and the other members of this site are not the only people reading this board-so are the anti-hunters, the senators, and a lot of other interested people. 

Don't let what happened in 2000, when the hunters themselves were the cause of that bill's demise, happen again. 

You might also want to be aware of Ms. Mary Brown's latest comments on the dove bill and other issues in the newest issue of MON...some very interesting reading, folks!


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## RichP (Jan 13, 2003)

I apologize if someone else has already posted this link, but here is a free press article regarding the current dove legislation and the wednesday's meeting cancellation.

http://www.freep.com/sports/outdoors/eric5_20040205.htm


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## Bob S (Mar 8, 2000)

It may not matter what the Senate does. I heard a story on the radio this morning that the Governor will only sign the bill if it includes a referendum to put dove hunting before the voters. If it does not include that referendum, then she will veto the bill.


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## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

Dear Fellow Sporstmen:

While it is true that HB 5029 (the dove bill) suffered a minor setback
with the cancellation of the Senate Approprations Committee that was to
take up the bill on February 5th, sportsmen want and deserve a vote on
this bill. As to the status of the bill, I am very opitmistic. When
it's all said and done at the end of the day, I believe the bill will
pass. I sincerely appreciate your continued support and activism for
the dove bill.

Sincerely,

Representative Susan Tabor


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## Worm Dunker (Sep 11, 2000)

> Dear Fellow Sportsmen:
> 
> Despite the cancellation of the Senate Appropriations Committee this
> past week, I am convinced that sportsmen will get a fair shot. I 
have
> heard many rumors about the reasons the committee was canceled, but
> the
> truth is no one knows for sure except the chairman, Senator Shirley
> Johnson. I have known Senate Majority Leader Ken Sikkema for a long
> time. He is a man of his word. I feel certain that we will get our
> vote, provided sportsmen keep calling their Senator to let them know
> that they support dove hunting. Opponents of the bill are using the
> cancellation of the committee as a means to convince sportsmen that
> the
> issue is dead. Far from it, hearing from sportsmen is what has made
> the
> difference up until today, and I believe it will continue to be so.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Susan Tabor
> State Representative
> 71st District


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## One Eye (Sep 10, 2000)

Since this Senator is an opponent of the Bill, I suspect the opposite is the case. I truly believe the bill was killed in committee because it was in danger of actually PASSING!!

My Senator (VanWoerkom) has since changed his position. He supported this in the past, but now says that "Michigan is not ready for a dove season." Of course, he didn't bother to take the time to tell me this himself, but rather he had his aide send me a very bland note.

If you live in Senate District 34, please take the time to remind Senator Van Woerkom who is supposed to be making the wildlife decisions in the state. Please contact him and let him know how you feel about his apparent switch to an anti-hunting position.

If the legislature continues to want to make the wildlife management decisions, I question why we would continue to fund a DNR??

Dan


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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

(Columbus )  Michigan legislation to permit dove hunting has been sent to the Senate Judiciary Committee where debate is expected to begin soon.

The Senate Judiciary Committee is chaired by Sen. Alan Cropsey, R-Lansing.

House Bill 5029 will allow the Michigan Department of Natural Resources to establish a hunting season for mourning doves.

This is just another chapter in the fight to gain a dove season, said Rob Sexton, vice president of the U.S. Sportsmens Alliance. The bill could be voted on at any time. Sportsmen across Michigan need to contact their senators immediately and ask for a yes vote on the dove bill.

Take Action! Michigan sportsmen should call their senators today and again ask them to vote yes on HB 5029, the dove bill. They should explain that Michigan wildlife professionals say there are enough doves to support a hunting season.

Michigan sportsmen can find their senators and get contact information by using the Legislative Action Center at www.ussportsmen.org or going to www.michiganlegislature.org and clicking on the Related Sites link. Sportsmen may also call (517) 373-2400 and ask for their senators office.

The Michigan Hunting Rights Campaign was organized by the U.S. Sportsmens Alliance to pass HB 5029. Members include A L S Enterprises, Inc., Commemorative Bucks of Michigan, Eastman Outdoors/Gametracker, Inc., Flint Chapter of the Safari Club International, Huron Pointe Sportsmens Association, Michigan Bear Hunters Association, Michigan Bow Hunters Association, Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners, Michigan Hunting Dog Federation, Michigan State Chapter of the National Wild Turkey Federation, Michigan State United Coonhunters Association, Michigan Trappers Association, National Rifle Association and the Professional Kennel Club, Inc. Michigan United Conservation Clubs and Safari Club International are also supporting the effort.

The U.S. Sportsmens Alliance protects the rights of hunters, anglers and trappers in the courts, legislatures, at the ballot, in Congress and through public education programs. For more information about the U.S. Sportsmens Alliance and its work, call (614) 888-4868 or visit its website, www.ussportsmen.org.


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## Bow Hunter Brandon (Jan 15, 2003)

Hey Neal how about a list of the people who need the letters sent to them, if you get us a list I will track down the street and email addresses for them and post them. We need to keep our voice heard on this until its done.


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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

*Members of the Senate Judicial Committee Senators Cropsey (C), Bishop (VC), Sanborn, Patterson, Schauer (MVC), Bernero, and Brater* 

*Mark Schauer PO BOX 30036 Lansing, Mi. 48909-7536 Phone: 517-373-2426 Fax : 517-373-2964 
e-mail:* [email protected]

Here is the list from Dec.

Call AND Email the following members - these are who the dove shooting proponents have targeted: 
Sen. Tom George - (R-20) 517-373-0793 [email protected] - on Appropriations Committee 
Sen. Mike Prusi - (D-38) 517-373-7840 [email protected] - on Appropriations Committee 
Sen. Bill Hardiman - (R-29) [email protected] - on Appropriations Committee 
Sen. Mike Goschka - (R-32) 517-373-1760 [email protected] - on Appropriations Committee 
Sen. Gerald VanWoerkom - (R-34) 517-373-1635 [email protected] - on Appropriations Committee 
Sen. Mike Bishop - (R-12) 517-373-2417 [email protected] 
Sen. Laura Toy - (R-6) 517-373-1707 [email protected] 
Sen. Ray Basham - (D-8) 517-373-7800 [email protected] 
Sen. Bev Hammerstrom - (R-17) 517-373-3543 [email protected] 
Sen. Patty Birkholz - (R-24) 517-373-3447 [email protected] 
Sen. Nancy Cassis - (R-15) 517-373-1758 [email protected]


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## Worm Dunker (Sep 11, 2000)

Hunters:

GOOD NEWS!!!!! The Dove Bill (HB5029) has been reassigned to a Senate
committee chaired by Sen. Alan Cropsey. Senator Cropsey has been an 
ardent
promoter of the shooting sports and has supported the establishment of 
a
dove hunting season for many years. He will need our assistance in the
coming weeks to successfully move the Dove Bill through the Senate and 
on to
the Governor. Individuals and organizations can learn what needs to be 
done
by contacting the Senator's staff at 1-866-305-2133.

Please pass this note on the others who may wish to assist in this 
effort.


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## Worm Dunker (Sep 11, 2000)

I just recieved this e-mail from R.G.S.

I just talked to Senator Cropsey's office. The bill is up on Tuesday. We need to make our voice heard


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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

Michigan Dove Hearing Set for Tuesday

Sportsmen Must Attend

Michigan legislation to permit dove hunting will be debated in the Senate Judiciary Committee early next week. The U.S. Sportsmens Alliance is urging a strong turnout by state hunters, anglers and trappers.

House Bill 5029 will allow the Michigan Department of Natural Resources to establish a hunting season for mourning doves. 

It will be heard by the Senate Judiciary Committee on February 17 at 12:00 noon. The hearing will be held in Room 210 of the Farnum Building, 125 W. Allegan St. The building is on the corner across from the State Capitol.

The anti-hunters will try to pack the hearing room on Tuesday, said U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance Vice President Rob Sexton. Michigan sportsmen must remain committed to this issue and turn out to demonstrate their strong support.

Take Action! Michigan sportsmen should clear their calendars for February 17 and plan to attend the Senate Judiciary Committee hearing at noon. Committee members must learn that Michigan sportsmen are eager to have a dove hunting season. Those who cannot attend the hearing should call their senators today and again ask them to vote yes on HB 5029. They should explain that Michigan wildlife professionals say there are enough doves to support a hunting season.

Michigan sportsmen can find their senators and get contact information by using the Legislative Action Center at www.ussportsmen.org or going to www.michiganlegislature.org and clicking on the Related Sites link. Sportsmen may also call (517) 373-2400 and ask for their senators office.

The Michigan Hunting Rights Campaign was organized by the U.S. Sportsmens Alliance to pass HB 5029. Members include A L S Enterprises, Inc., Commemorative Bucks of Michigan, Eastman Outdoors/Gametracker, Inc., Flint Chapter of the Safari Club International, Huron Pointe Sportsmens Association, Michigan Bear Hunters Association, Michigan Bow Hunters Association, Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners, Michigan Hunting Dog Federation, Michigan State Chapter of the National Wild Turkey Federation, Michigan State United Coonhunters Association, Michigan Trappers Association, National Rifle Association and the Professional Kennel Club, Inc. Michigan United Conservation Clubs and Safari Club International are also supporting the effort.

The U.S. Sportsmens Alliance protects the rights of hunters, anglers and trappers in the courts, legislatures, at the ballot, in Congress and through public education programs. For more information about the U.S. Sportsmens Alliance and its work, call (614) 888-4868 or visit its website, www.ussportsmen.org.


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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

Virg Bernero
Democrat of District 23
*Office Phone: (517) 373-1734*
Office Location: 415 Farnum Building
E-mail Address: [email protected]

Michael Bishop
Republican of District 12
*Office Phone: (517) 373-2417*
Office Location: 605 Farnum Building
E-mail Address: [email protected]

Liz Brater
Democrat of District 18
*Office Phone: (517) 373-2406*
Office Location: 510 Farnum Building
E-mail Address: [email protected]


Alan L. Cropsey
Republican of District 33
*Office Phone: (517) 373-3760*
Office Location: 1005 Farnum Building
E-mail Address: [email protected]

Bruce Patterson
Republican of District 7
*Office Phone: (517) 373-7350*
Office Location: 505 Farnum Building
E-mail Address: [email protected]

Alan Sanborn
Republican of District 11
*Office Phone: (517) 373-7670*
Office Location: S-310 Capitol
E-mail Address: [email protected]

Mark Schauer
Democrat of District 19
*Office Phone: (517) 373-2426*
Office Location: S-9 Capitol
E-mail Address: [email protected]

All are important!
http://senate.michigan.gov/SenatorInfo/alphabetical_list_of_senators2003.htm


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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

*Monday being a holiday, be sure to call by Tuesday morning!*


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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

Senator Cropsey has scheduled the Public Hearing on HB5029--the dove hunting bill, for THIS Tuesday, 2/17 at 12 Noon in Room 210 of the Farnum Senate Office Bldg. (corner of Capital Ave. & Allegan across from Capitol and Parking structure). 

He will only be taking limited testimony; 3 from each side.
However, members of the public in attendance are able to fill out position cards and turn them into Clerk "for the record" so I urge everyone who comes to do this.

Again, I cannot stress strongly enough that Senator Bishop from the Rochester area is the KEY vote between passage or defeat of this bill in Cropsey's Judiciary Committee. As a member of this committee, he may be lobbied by anyone who lives in MI who wishes to express their views on the bill.
However, anyone who lives in his Senate District (Rochester, Rochester Hills, Auburn Hills, Pontiac, Lake Angelus, and the Townships of Oxford, Addison, Independence, Orion, and Oakland) has even greater influence over him. WE NEED ALL OF YOU, ESP. THOSE FROM HIS DISTRICT, TO FLOOD HIS OFFICE W/CALLS and EMAILS NO LATER THAN BY THIS TUESDAY AM.
(Again as I stated in yesterday's Alert, his toll free # is 1-877-9-BISHOP; regular # is 1-517-373-2417; his email is [email protected]


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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

Know your adversary! CLICK HERE!


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## brdhntr (Oct 1, 2003)

I'll be heading to Lansing tommorrow morning. Can carry five additional in the van. Will most likely be going from Canton up
275 to 96 west. Also, any known plans to rally the troops in one place before heading to the hearing? Time and place to meet would be nice. email me at brdhntr

BTW-WDET news radio had a blip about the bill this morning. They even had Wayne Pacelle. They mentioned that sportsmen were in favor of the bill because they claim doves are hard to hit and good eating.


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## JDubya (May 15, 2003)

Here are some replies I have received from an email I sent on Friday to all the members of the committee:

Thank you very much for your E-mail message regarding House Bill 5029,
Representative Susan Tabor's legislation which would name the mourning
dove as a game bird. I really appreciate your taking the time to
contact me regarding this matter.

I have voted against this legislation in the past and will do so again
if the Senate takes a vote on the bill.

I'm sorry I can't agree with you on this matter, but I do
appreciate the time you have taken to share your views with me. It's
very helpful to hear from my constituents, and I hope you will keep me
informed as other matters arise that you would like me to know about.


------------------------------------------
Senator Liz Brater
(866) 305-0318
senate.michigan.gov/dem/sd18
[email protected]


Thank you for writing to voice your concerns regarding House Bill 5029. The House of Representatives approved HB 5029 with amendments 64-44, and it is now pending before the Senate Appropriations Committee for consideration. I have received a wealth of correspondence from people throughout the U.P. in support of and in opposition to the establishment of a dove season, and I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to share your views with me.

As introduced, HB 5029 would amend the Natural Resources and Environmental Protection Act to permit the establishment of a dove season in Michigan. As you may know, Michigan voters approved Proposal G in 1996, which gave the Natural Resources Commission (NRC) exclusive authority to regulate the taking of game in the State. However, the Legislature still has the authority to designate a species as game, because the term "game" is defined by statute. After the Legislature designates a species as game, the NRC is allowed to issue regulations pertaining to that animal. 

I believe a dove season will provide an excellent opportunity for additional outdoor recreation for Michigan citizens currently enjoyed by sporting enthusiasts in 39 other states. While I recognize the dove population throughout the U.P. is limited and that a dove season would primary be enjoyed only throughout southern Michigan, I believe the NRC is qualified to issue regulations that protect the viability of the species and insure safe hunting practices. As the mourning dove is a migratory bird, the NRC must follow U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service guidelines for a dove season under the federal Migratory Bird Treaty Act. However, I do not support an appropriation of $350,000 from the MDNR Game & Fish Fund earmarked for promotion of a dove season, as this appropriation denies the ability of citizens to initiate a statewide referendum on such legislation at the ballot box. 

Again, thank you for writing. Please do not hesitate to contact me further regarding this or any other state issue of your concern.

Sincerely,



MICHAEL A. PRUSI
State Senator
38th District


Thank you for contacting my office about House Bill 5029. I always appreciate hearing from constituents. 

As you probably know HB 5029 would allow for Mourning Doves to be classified as a game bird and to be hunted. I have received many constituent calls on this bill from both opponents and supporters. 

While I believe that hunters have played a vital role in the conservation and protection of Michigan's natural resources, I do not feel that a compelling case has been made to allow the hunting of Mourning Doves in Michigan. Therefore, I am opposed to HB 5029.

Again, thank you for contacting me. Please call any time I can be of help.

Sincerely,

Virg Bernero
State Senator

Virg Bernero, State Senator
23rd District
415 Farnum Building
P.O. Box 30036
Lansing, Michigan 48909-7536
517: 373-1734/Telephone
517: 373-5397/Fax
[email protected]


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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

Welcome to the site JDubya! Thanks for the post.


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## Zeboy (Oct 4, 2002)

I am planning on showing up on Tuesday. Hope to see some of you there!!! We will need all of the support we can get. One vote will decide this thing in committee and also on the Senate floor, If we can get it there.


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## Hamilton Reef (Jan 20, 2000)

Bill to make mourning doves legal prey stirs passions on both sides

A mourning dove in flight is erratic. Sudden changes of direction. Confusing dips and turns. 
Ditto for a proposed law to hunt the birds. That legislation, at the epicenter of an angst-ridden Senate hearing today, is a springboard for threats, protests, political sleight of hand and exhaustive lobbying efforts the likes of which haven't been seen since, well, the last time it was proposed. 

http://www.freep.com/news/mich/dove17_20040217.htm


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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

Having trouble opening this page, http://senate.michigan.gov/SenatorInfo/find-your-senator.htm go figure!


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## 3006 (May 16, 2000)

Very interested to see how this thing turns out.

Hope everything goes well. Personally, I think they should just take it to the people to vote on. That way, it will be a done deal. That is what happened here in OHio and it passed by a large margin. The anti's said that it was opposed by a vast majority of Ohio citizens. Well, they were wrong!


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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

Faxes sent. Personal phone calls made to all the Senators on the committee! *Hopefully tomorrow The BIG VOTE!*


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## Zeboy (Oct 4, 2002)

Well the political process moves on . . .sort of. I'll be curious to read "the official response" of today's committee meeting. From my perspective, not a lot was accomplished.

Sportsmen were well represented!!! The committee heard almost 2 hours of testimony. A couple of senators had some big concerns regarding procedural issues of the bill. There were lots of side meetings taking place in the hall.

When it was all said and done, they voted on a substitute version of the bill with a plan to then send it to the Natural Resources Committee instead of the Senate floor.

That vote ended in a 3 - 3 tie with one senator passing. As far as I understand, HB 5029 remains in the Judiciary committee. It will be interesting to see what happens from here.


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## brdhntr (Oct 1, 2003)

Ditto what Zeboy said. The testimony went as expected with the pros and cons saying what you would expect. Sam Washintgon did an excellent job by pointing out that if we are going to run how we use our natural resources, we should fire the entire DNR and hire social workers and psycologists to manage our resource. I think he really hit the nail on the head. It was really good to see the head of the Ohio DNR there supporting the initiative. I had a chance to speak with him and discuss my experiences hunting in Ohio. As for where we stand, it was my understanding that it was going back to the Appropriations Committee. The vote was to amend the bill to include a $2 habitat stamp to hunt doves, some other minor changes that I can't recall right now. The motion to move it to the Natural Resources Commission didn't come up because they didn't pass the first one. Have to say, I agree that it didn't belong in the Judiciary Committee, despite Sen. Cropsey's attempt to make it a property right and a handicap right issue. This is neither.

As for sending it to a vote of the general population, I don't think that is necessary. We want our wildlife professionals making these decisions, not the comon populace. The appropriation is appropriate as it stands, because the dove season is early and regs need to be printed before the regular guide is available. The funds will, also, provide information on identification of the kestrel and other birds that the anti's have concerns about. My understanding is that the money is slotted fromt he Fish and Game fund, which is an appropriate use of the funds.

Finally, I would have liked to see testimony from a Michigan hunter who has actually hunted doves in other states to counter some of the ridiculous claims the made by the anti's. 

I wish someone would have called HSUS on their claim they aren't anti hunting. I have never once seen a hunting issue that they have been on the pro side.


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## Zeboy (Oct 4, 2002)

I might be wrong on this, but, it's my understanding that Ohio initiated a dove season and then a year or two later the antis gathered the necessary signatures to force a ballot proposal to outlaw the season. At that point, the ballot proposal to end dove hunting was defeated.

This is also what may happen if and when we get a dove season in Michigan. I'm sure the antis will force the issue on the ballot one way or another. In an open election it will be a lot easier to defend a current season than the creation of a new one.


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## Big Frank 25 (Feb 21, 2002)

From this mornings Detroit Free Press 

LANSING: Bill on dove hunting stalls in committee 

February 18, 2004 


A bill legalizing dove hunting in Michigan stalled Tuesday in a state Senate committee, but backers promised to bring it to a vote of the full Senate next week. 

The legislation would allocate $350,000 for promotional and education campaigns. 

Bill Nowling, spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Ken Sikkema, R-Wyoming, said he expects a renewed effort to send a version of the bill to the Senate floor for a vote next week. 

Gov. Jennifer Granholm "would be inclined to sign it if it allows the people of Michigan to vote on the issue," said her spokeswoman, Liz Boyd. 

The bill's sponsor, state Rep. Susan Tabor, R-Delta Township, said earlier this month that she opposes adding a voter referendum to the bill. By Hugh McDiarmid Jr. 

http://www.freep.com/news/mich/date18_20040218.htm


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## 3006 (May 16, 2000)

It is going to come down to the puplic voting on this thing. I believe that is the only way this is going to allow Michigan to have a dove season. Otherwise, it is going to be a court fight for years. On top of that, Missy is not going to sign the thing anyway.


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## Worm Dunker (Sep 11, 2000)

Dove Bill Supporters:

The Dove Bill (HB5029) is currently stalled in the Senate Judiciary
Committee. On Tuesday the bill was brought up for committee action and 
the
vote was three Yes and three NO. A simple majority of committee 
members
present is needed to take any action on the bill. The seven members 
voted
as shown below:

NO -- Virg Bernero (D) Lansing 517-373-1734
YES -- Michael Bishop (R) Rochester 1-877-924-7467
NO -- Liz Brater (D) Ann Arbor 1-866-305-0318
YES -- Alan Cropsey (R) Dewitt 1-866-305-2133
ABSTAINED -- Bruce Patterson (R) Canton 1-866-262-7307
YES -- Alan Sanborn (R) Richmond Twp. 1-888-353-2526
NO -- Mark Schauer (D) Battle Creek 1-888-962-6275

It appears that those who voted NO are solidly in the Humane Society's 
camp.
Senator Bruce Patterson (Dist. 7) has supported hunters in the past and 
is
the swing vote on the Dove Bill in the Judiciary Committee. We must 
all
call Sen. Patterson's office and urge him to vote YES when the bill 
comes up
again.


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## Zeboy (Oct 4, 2002)

Senator Patterson made it very clear at the meeting that he is VERY PRO HB 5029. He is all for establishing a season on Mourning Doves in Michigan. He stance is: Do it correctly or don't do it at all. Don't give the antis amunition to over turn the legislation down the road.

His issue is procedural. i.e. why is this bill even in the Judiciary committee? How did it end up there? Why isn't it in the Natural Resources Committee?

I do not believe sending him letters or putting the pressure on him is the answer. He is already on our side!


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## Hamilton Reef (Jan 20, 2000)

Zeboy, "Why isn't it in the Natural Resources Committee?"

The following is from another forum:
It appeared the committee had struck a compromise when Cropsey announced that Sikkema agreed that Judiciary could re-refer the bill to a third committee, the Senate Natural Resources and Environmental Affairs.
That plan fell apart when that committee chair, Sen. Patty BIRKHOLZ (R-Saugatuck), entered the committee room moments before the vote was going to be taken, and took Cropsey outside for a little talk.
Birkholz declined to say what she told Cropsey, but it's safe to say she wanted no part of this political hot potato. When Cropsey returned for their powwow, the idea of moving it to Natural Resources was dropped.


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## Hamilton Reef (Jan 20, 2000)

Dove bill bobs and weaves like the bird

This is bizarre even by the flaky standards of Michigan politics: The dove hunting bill wending its way through the state Senate has been temporarily derailed, but not by the opposition. 
It was stopped by Sen. Bruce Patterson, a Canton Township Republican who has said he will vote for the bill if it reaches the Senate floor but objects to committee-shopping by Senate majority leader Ken Sikkema. 

http://www.freep.com/sports/outdoors/eric19_20040219.htm


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## Hamilton Reef (Jan 20, 2000)

Blustery lawmaker is not out of woods yet on dove-hunting bill impasse

It's a good thing Sen. Bruce Patterson, R-Canton, is as earnest as he is verbose. Patterson is a lawyer and doesn't let you forget it.	
It's also a matter of realpolitik: Patterson is under intense pressure to kill the dove bill from the Michigan Humane Society and constituents who view killing doves akin to drowning puppies.

Leading the charge is Rep. Susan Tabor, R-Delta Township, who's half Patterson's size, but has the tenacity of a ferret. This is her third attempt to legalize dove hunting, and she's pestered fellow legislators so much that they just want her out of their hair.	

Gov. Jennifer Granholm says she'll veto the bill unless it allows for a statewide referendum on dove hunting. Her veto would convince suspicious hunters that Granholm is anti-hunting after all.	

http://www.freep.com/news/politics/polcol23_20040223.htm


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## Hamilton Reef (Jan 20, 2000)

From MUCC

Letter from Rep. Tabor Regarding the Dove Bill

Dear Fellow Sportsmen and Women:

Please accept my apologies for the delay in getting back to you. I sincerely appreciate your continued support for the dove bill, it really means a lot to me. 

As to the status of the bill:

The Dove Bill (HB5029) is currently in the Senate Judiciary Committee. On Tuesday, February 17th, the bill was brought up for committee action and the vote was three Yes and three NO. A simple majority of committee members present is needed to take any action on the bill. The seven members voted as shown below:

NO -- Virg Bernero (D) Lansing 517-373-1734
YES -- Michael Bishop (R) Rochester 1-877-924-7467
NO -- Liz Brater (D) Ann Arbor 1-866-305-0318
YES -- Alan Cropsey (R) Dewitt 1-866-305-2133
ABSTAINED -- Bruce Patterson (R) Canton 1-866-262-7307
YES -- Alan Sanborn (R) Richmond Twp. 1-888-353-2526
NO -- Mark Schauer (D) Battle Creek 1-888-962-6275

The bill to make Michigan the 40th state to allow dove hunting could again come to a vote before the Senate Judiciary Committee at any time now. To get that vote, Michigan sportsmen must continue to keep pressure on their senators and ask the committee to pass the bill. Please see attached link for additional details:

Michigan Dove Bill Ready for Senate Committee Vote

<http://www.ussportsmen.org/interactive/features/Read.cfm?ID=1255> 

I have head many rumors circulating about the dove bill and the process thus far. Opponents of the bill are using the latest action of the committee as a means to convince sportsmen that the issue is dead. Far from it, hearing from sportsmen is what has made the difference, and I believe it will continue to be so. I am very optimistic despite the minor setback. I am convinced that sportsmen will get a fair shot. The sportsmen and women of Michigan want and deserve a vote on this bill. I feel certain that we will get our vote, provided sportsmen keep calling their Senator to let them know that they support dove hunting. 

I have not been given a specific date; however, we need to be prepared as it could be taken up again at any time now. I am encouraging all supporters to continue to contact every state senator and urge them to support the bill. You can obtain a list of all the Senators and their email addresses by going to the legislative web site at www.michiganlegislature.org and then select "Michigan Senate" under "related sites".

Again, thank you so much for your activism and please pass this on to all of your friends and family who support dove hunting.

Sincerely,

Susan Tabor
State Representative
71st District


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## 3006 (May 16, 2000)

Maybe this whole delay thing is a test to see if we as sporstsmen really want this. IF we get a couple failures, to we just pack up and leave? If not, they know we should be taken seriously.


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## Gr8estScout (Feb 24, 2004)

I deleted Gr8estScout's post. His immature name calling is what got him banned from this site in the first place. Why people keep coming to a place they're not welcome is beyond me.

Neal


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## Zeboy (Oct 4, 2002)

Wow GREATESTSCOUT!!! Did the doctor that dropped you on your noggin in the delivery room so many years ago just happen to be a dove hunter or something????


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## Hamilton Reef (Jan 20, 2000)

Senators, do your job! 

LANSING -- There's an adage, which I have seen ascribed to nearly everyone from Mark Twain to Otto Von Bismarck, that says the two things you do not want to watch being made are laws and sausages. Of the two processes, law-making is far more unsavory. 

http://www.mlive.com/outdoors/statewide/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1077664202271180.xml


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## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

(Columbus) - A Senate committee today approved a bill to make Michigan the 40th state to allow dove hunting. A Senate floor vote is imminent. Sportsmen are urged to contact their senators in support of the bill today. 

The Senate Judiciary Committee passed House Bill 5029 by a vote of 4 to 3. The bill authorizes the Michigan Department of Natural Resources to establish a dove season. The bill was amended to allow the creation of a $2 dove stamp with fees being split equally between game and non-game funds.

In November 2003, the House passed H.B. 5029, introduced by Rep. Susan Tabor , R-Delta Township , by a vote of 64 to 44. 

"Michigan sportsmen responded to action alerts from the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance and its partners in the Michigan Hunting Rights Campaign and now we are one step closer to a dove season," said Rob Sexton, U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance vice president for government affairs. "Michigan senators must continue to hear from sportsmen constituents so that when the floor vote is taken, they know to vote yes on House Bill 5029." 

Michigan sportsmen should call their senators today and ask them to vote yes on HB 5029. Remind them that doves are the nation's most popular gamebirds and state wildlife experts support the season. Michigan sportsmen can find their senators and get contact information by using the Legislative Action Center at www.ussportsmen.org or going to www.michiganlegislature.org and clicking on the "Related Sites" link. Sportsmen may also call (517) 373-2400 and ask for their senator's office. 

The Michigan Hunting Rights Campaign was organized by the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance to pass HB 5029. Members include Commemorative Bucks of Michigan, Eastman Outdoors/Gametracker, Inc., Flint Chapter of the Safari Club International, Huron Pointe Sportsmen's Association, Michigan Bear Hunters Association, Michigan Bow Hunters Association, Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners, Michigan Hunting Dog Federation, Michigan State Chapter of the National Wild Turkey Federation, Michigan State United Coonhunters Association, Michigan Trappers Association, National Rifle Association, the Professional Kennel Club, Inc. and Scent-Lok. Michigan United Conservation Clubs and Safari Club International are also supporting the effort. 

The U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance protects the rights of hunters, anglers and trappers in the courts, legislatures, at the ballot, in Congress and through public education programs. For more information about the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance and its work, call (614) 888-4868 or visit its website, www.ussportsmen.org.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

If the bill was changed I believe if it passes the senate it will have to go back to the house too because of the amendments. Good it is making progress though.


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## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

Michigan Senate Passes Dove Bill 

(Lansing) - The Senate today approved a bill to make Michigan the 40th state to allow dove hunting. The bill now heads back to the House for concurrence before heading to Gov. Jennifer Granholm's desk. 

The Senate passed House Bill 5029 by a vote of 22 to 15, with one excused. It authorizes the Michigan Department of Natural Resources to establish a dove hunting season. The bill includes a provision to allow the creation of a $2 dove stamp. Fees will be split equally between game and non-game programs. 

In November 2003, the House of Representatives passed the dove bill, 64-44. It was introduced by Rep. Susan Tabor, R-Delta Township. That version included an appropriation for dove education programs. It did not include a dove stamp. These differences in the bills are thought to be minor and can be easily reconciled. 

"The unification and grassroots action of Michigan sportsmen, from turkey hunters to bear hunters and deer hunters to trappers, has been the key factor in the advancement of the dove bill," said Rob Sexton, U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance vice president for government affairs. "The U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance and its partners in the Michigan Hunting Rights Campaign urge sportsmen to conclude this effort by asking Governor Granholm to sign House Bill 5029." 

Michigan sportsmen should contact Gov. Granholm today and ask her to sign HB 5029. Tell her that doves are the nation's most popular gamebirds and state wildlife experts support the season. Remind her that 39 other states, virtually all that feature dove populations, hold a dove hunting season. Messages can be sent to Gov. Jennifer M. Granholm, P.O. Box 30013, Lansing, Michigan 48909. Phone: (517) 373-3400, Fax: (517) 335-6863. Sportsmen can also use the Legislative Action Center at www.ussportsmen.org.


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## Zeboy (Oct 4, 2002)

YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!

Let's hope everything goes smoothly with the concurrence in the House. . . and then on to the gov.'s desk!


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## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

Michigan Sportsmen - and women - this is a sign that we are to be delt with and not just cast aside - I think the lobby is getting effective and no we need to show the Gov that we vote too!!!!


ferg....


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## wingshoot (Mar 25, 2004)

I recieved an email from my State senator Tony Stamas that HB 5029 did pass the Senate.

But, ( and there always seems to be a BUT when it comes to hunting Doves in Michigan) the Governor is now saying (through her spokesperson), that she will veto it unless it passes on a state ballot.

Granholm campained as being a friend to Hunters. I say it's time to hold her feet to the fire. I would ask anyone who cares about the future of ALL hunting in Michigan to email / fax the Governor and make sure she hears from our side.


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## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

Here is a link to be heard !!!

Contact the Gov 


She knows how I feel !  


ferg....


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## Zeboy (Oct 4, 2002)

I have listed below if you want to see how the Senators voted. Best surprise was Democrat Buzz Thomas from Detroit voting for it -- Yea Buzz!!! Let's remember to thank those that voted for it . . . and not forget come election time. . . who voted against it.

Yeas
Allen, Barcia, Basham,Birkholtz,Bishop, Brown,Cassis,Cherry,Cropsey,Garcia,George,Gilbert,Goschka,
Hammerstrom,Kuipers,McManus,Patterson,Prusi,Sanborn,Sikkema,Stamas,Thomas,

Nays
Bernero,Brater,Clark-Coleman,Clarke,Emerson,Hardiman,Jacobs,Jelinek,Johnson,Leland,Olshove,Schauer,Scott,Switalski,VanWoerkom

Excused
Toy


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## Tom Morang (Aug 14, 2001)

Senate shoots dove bill to Granholm's desk 

Thursday, April 1, 2004 

By Bob Gwizdz 





LANSING -- After more than a decade of pushing for legalization of dove hunting, sportsmen finally got the blessing of the Legislature Wednesday, though it may all be for naught. 

A spokesperson for Gov. Jennifer Granholm said Wednesday night she expects Granholm to veto the bill. 

On a 22-15 vote, the Senate approved a bill adding mourning doves to the list of game species and authorizing the Natural Resources Commission to set the first season. Seventeen Republicans and five Democrats voted in favor of the bill. 

"I'm thrilled," said Rep. Sue Tabor, R-Delta Township, who introduced the bill and pushed it through the House last fall. 

Tabor, who watched a similar effort go down to defeat in the Senate by one vote in 2000, said the Legislature was swayed by the fact that 39 other states allow dove hunting and science says a hunting season will not adversely effect the dove population. 

"This is a tremendous opportunity for the governor to show the sportsmen of the state she's behind them," Tabor said. "I think she's making a terrible mistake if she doesn't sign this bill." 

Granholm had said she wanted a bill that allowed Michigan voters to decide the issue. The legislation the Senate approved does not call for a referendum, though it would allow citizens to mount a petition drive to put the issue on the ballot. 

The House, which must first concur with the Senate's action before the bill hits the governor's desk, is unlikely to add referendum language, Tabor said. 

"All the science backs it up," Tabor said. "There's no reason not to -- other than some people don't want to -- and that's not good enough." 

Opponents had argued that hunting would decimate dove numbers and lead to accidents, as doves are often seen near houses. 

The vote occurred without any discussion or amendments offered, something that surprised even the staunchest advocates of dove hunting. 

Sportsmen's organizations were ecstatic. 

"Obviously, we're pleased to put this on the governor's desk," said Rob Sexton, vice president of the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance, a national hunting rights group that helped organize rallies in support of the bill. "We hope she'll listen to the wishes of Michigan hunters and support the bill. It came out with good support from both parties in both chambers." 

If Granholm does not sign or veto the bill within 14 days of receiving it, it automatically becomes law. 

Doves are recognized by international treaty as game birds and are managed by states under regulations set by the U.S. Department of Interior. But they've been considered songbirds in Michigan since game laws were codified early in the 20th century. 

Mourning doves are among the most populous birds in North America, numbering between 400 million and 500 million, according to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. They are the most popular quarry of American hunters. 

Sam Washington, executive director of Michigan United Conservation Clubs, said overwhelming support from sportsmen was the difference this time. 

"It was a bipartisan vote," he said. "We had overwhelming support from the sportsmen." 

Washington said he hopes the governor signs the bill. 

"If she vetoes it, I don't think she'll ever convince sportsmen she's behind them," he said. 

The bill requires hunters to purchase a $2 dove stamp in addition to a small game license to hunt doves. Revenue from stamp sales will be evenly divided between game funds and nongame funds administered by the Department of Natural Resources. 

Contact Bob Gwizdz at (517) 487-8888 or e-mail him at [email protected].


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## jscott27 (Dec 20, 2001)

> _Originally posted by wingshoot _
> the Governor is now saying (through her spokesperson), that she will veto it unless it passes on a state ballot.


The spokesperson's statement is in this article: Dove Bill Article

I would again encourage everyone to send e-mail, letters, faxes and make phone calls to the Gov regarding this. I used the link from Ferg above to send this to the Gov:

_Governor,

Recently, the Senate passed their version of a bill that would allow the DNR to establish a dove hunting season, and it seems likely that the House and Senate will be able to work out their differences in conference and get a bill to your desk. I would encourage you to sign this bill.

I have recently seen comments by your spokeswoman Elizabeth Boyd that you will likely veto this bill. During your campaign you claimed to be a friend of hunters, but your actions speak differently. I don't need your "lesson in democracy"; this is nothing more than a lame excuse to veto the bill. The bill will probably not be referendum proof, and if opponents want to gather the necessary signatures, then they can put it on the ballot.

Michigan has duly elected representatives who are doing their jobs on behalf of their constituents, and vetoing the bill will be doing nothing more than saying you don't support hunters.
_


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## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

A little different approach - I eluded to the fact that the bill does not establish a dove season, but lets the people that were hired to make these decisions based on the science and what was best for a given speicies - to do their jobs - and that a veto would be like saying that the science doesn't matter as long as the policitcs were good - and that I thought that was a slap in the face of the people entrusted to make the educated decisions on behalf of the people of Michigan - 

This is not a political issue - its science.

ferg....
Come on everyone - let her know how you feel !!!!


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## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

Lets also not forget the economic benefits of a dove season, If she won't do it bassed on science, maybe she'll do it for for a better economy and dare I say, create a few new jobs.

Neal


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## Hamilton Reef (Jan 20, 2000)

Advice to Granholm: Don't veto dove bill 

Here's my suggestion: Let the bill become law without Granholm's signature, then give us a dove season next fall to see how it works out. Tens of thousands of people would take part in the hunt. A lot of them would be the same deer, duck and grouse hunters who told pollsters they oppose dove hunting, but will try this new sport and find they like it. 
And all those people who worry that hunters would blast away at God's little messengers of peace at backyard bird feeders would realize that we don't hunt in cities and suburbs. And the hunt wouldn't make any difference in the dove population.	

http://www.freep.com/sports/outdoors/eric1_20040401.htm


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## Whiskey (Aug 13, 2002)

Here's two quick notes I just fired off:

to Granholm:
Please do not veto this bill. We have elected representatives to Congress and Senate to do just that, represent us. That, combined with the DNR controlling the hunting seasons should be plenty enough to let this bill pass. To veto it in favor of a popular vote flies in the face of the DNR and elected representatives. It also reeks of politics over common sense. Didn't you say you would be a friend to the hunter/outdoorsman? It's time to prove it. This bill just makes good sense all around. 

to Deb Cherry:
Dear Senator Cherry,
In one short month I will be getting married and moving to my brand new house in Brandon Township (we are very excited). I wanted to drop you a quick line to let you know my wife and I were going to be new constituents of yours, and that we appreciate your yes vote on the dove bill. It will not be forgotten come election day. Thank you for your time.


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## I'llbeoutside (Feb 2, 2003)

Now we need to let the Gov know in BIG numbers how we feel. I am moving soon so I am printing out the list of rep votes for future reference.


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## Aggie1 (Feb 25, 2004)

Here is my letter that I just faxed to the Governor.

Dear Governor Granholm,

I am writing to ask for your support of HB 5029 which would allow Michigan to become the 40th state in the union to allow dove hunting.

In the Lansing State Journal, your spokesman Elizabeth Boyd was quoted as saying "The governor feels this is obviously a very highly charged issue on both sides and a lesson in democracy to give people the right to vote on this issue." 

I agree with her in that it is highly charged and a lesson in democracy should be given. However, I do not believe that a lesson will be given by vetoing this bill. It seems to me that a governors veto should be used when the majority is trying to take away a right from a minority. That is the vetos job, not to impose the ideology of the majority (or the governor). 

Now both sides of this argument claim to have the majority, but in reality, that really doesnt matter. This issue is really about a right (the right to hunt and hunt doves). The opposition is not asking for a right, they are asking for a right to be withheld from a group of people. I am not asking for animal rights activists to shoot birds, I am asking to be allowed to shoot doves and put them on my table. I am asking to be allowed to raise my sons to appreciate that meat in the supermarket is not grown in cellophane containers. I want my sons to understand first hand that a living thing has to die in order for us to eat. This, along with the other opportunities to hunt, allows me to teach my children this important value.

I know that you know what the right thing to do is. I would ask you to put aside your personal views on whether hunting or dove hunting is right or wrong and allow the population the choice to engage in this wonderful activity that does not hurt or hinder the majority in any way.

I would appreciate hearing any additional thoughts you have on this bill.

Sincerely,


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## Hamilton Reef (Jan 20, 2000)

Every local paper has their own spin on the recent dove vote. The Muskegon Chronicle had Senator Gerry VanWoerkom with his picture bragging how he voted against the dove bill. The West Michigan Republican hollander voted against his own party and President Bush to show his true antihunting colors. That article was conveniently missing from the Muskegon Chronicle website.

Another article from Lansing.
State Senate OKs dove hunting bill	
http://www.lsj.com/news/local/040401_doves_1a_-8a.html


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## Ebowhunter (Apr 5, 2000)

My request has always been simple:

Please allow the NRC to determine the impact of a mourning dove hunting season.


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## 3006 (May 16, 2000)

Can we start a new updated Dove Thread?


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## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

Governor considers trial dove hunt 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Governor considers trial dove hunt 
Compromise could break impasse in Legislature 

Gov. Jennifer Granholm is seriously considering a compromise that would allow an experimental dove hunting season in southern Michigan. The hunt, which would be held in a handful of counties near the Ohio and Indiana borders, would be reviewed after three years.

The compromise was proposed by Sam Washington, executive director of Michigan United Conservation Clubs. It has received enough attention from Granholm that animal rights groups in Lansing and Washington have reminded her of a pledge to veto any dove bill, and that breaking it could cost her in her next election bid. 

Elizabeth Boyd, the governor's press secretary, said Tuesday that the MUCC proposal "seems like a reasonable solution" to the impasse over a bill stalled in the Legislature. 

http://www.freep.com/news/mich/dove21_20040421.htm


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## ytlabs (Jul 21, 2002)

Neal, I really wasn't looking to turn it to a north verses south issue. My thought was more when I posted it should be EQUAL for all of us, or for none of us.

I guess I just really do not think that a "Study" will do anything except see us shot in the butt in three years. 

I toss this out for some thought.

Along the waterfowl lines for zones what happens when the northern lower opens 1-2 weeks before the southern section? The birds move south as the pressure is put to them.

What I seriously think you will see out of this buffer zone along the lines of the state is just that. The birds will move out. There will be an estimation survey done in the counties with seasons. The season will open the birds will move out to Ohio and Indiana and then we will hear all about how the numbers are not sufficient to rule in favor of a season or not.

Call this what you want conspiracy or whatever. I do NOT trust that this will end the way everyone thinks a compromise will. 

The anti groups have said they do not want to commit the funds to fight this at this time. Why? Could it be they have to much on thier plates already and they need more time to gather some propaganda and spread lies and build a war chest for this?

I hear ya's with a win of some sort is better than no win. I will also say if this is what happens I for one hope that everyone makes it darn well known they are NOT happy with the outcome of this. 

Let the Politicians heads roll, and Let Jenny take the heat from both sides. I want it to be more of both sides LOST because of her not both sides won. This half full half empty garbage she is pulling needs to be forced to backfire when it comes time to reelect these people.

This is just another example of why I dispise her and wish her the ultimate worst. ( Thought I would try to watch my words so I don't get edited or deleted because someone would be offended!  )


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## snakebit67 (Oct 18, 2003)

point taken, bob. I guess what I would really like to see for once is a show of hands so to speak. The majority of our elected officials voted for this bill. No the governer is in a catch 22. Like you said, she is worried about the majority of her supporters. I have no dissillusions about politics, say what you will it is about getting re-elected NOT the will of the people.

Now that said, I guess the only way to really find out what the majority of the state wants is to have it up for referrendum, which is not going to happen. So If it wont get put up for a vote I have to fall back on my elected officials, who passed the bill. Yes I will be glad for the chance to hunt doves in the state. But I feel this is just a butt saving move on her part.


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## Pinefarm (Sep 19, 2000)

IMHO, if we take this long term deal, we get a dove season. Done deal. If we don't, we can go to the Yasser Arafat "How to F up on the sweet deal laid out on a silver platter" playbook and we can forget about a dove season being even seriously discussed in Lansing for 15 years. Everyone's call...
I hate to say it, but a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.
(Man, I can't stop with these puns! LOL)


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## Aggie1 (Feb 25, 2004)

I don't think Granholm is going to get out of this unscathed. She has shown her true colors and just about any candidate against her is going to look like a better choice come election time. I know that I don't consider her to be pro-hunting. She is hunting tolerant at best.

Although I am with everyone who wishes we could get a season for the whole state now, I have got to believe that it is going to be much easier to get the whole state opened to dove hunting in 3 years than trying to override a veto. Also remember Tabor is term limited. If this is vetoed, are we going to be able to find someone to champioin this issue like she did. If I have to bet on a horse, I am going to bet on the NRC. How is the NRC going to come to any conclusion other than to have a statewide season when there are 39 other states that have seasons? These guys would be the laughing stocks of the wildlife community if they did.

My thoughts are to take the compromise, get as many hunters hooked on dove hunting as possible in 3 years, and vote Granholm out of office. 

Is anyone with me?


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## BearMaster2 (Jan 22, 2004)

The internet polls that we've been playing with aren't scientific and we voted and voted often, meaningless and a waste of our time. The real polls show we'd have real problems on the ballot and don't think the powers that be don't know that.

I've been watching this closely and its now setting a precident on how wildlife management decisions are made and I'm not comfortable moving into compromise, compromise, compromise from here on out. Are you? Its a sell out on how decisions are made. The MUCC should know better, this is not good for sportsmen or wildlife management. Shortsightedness!

In the long run this thing is going to turn and bite us just like our victory Proposal G, remember ol Jenny gets to decide what the NRC is now.


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## Zeboy (Oct 4, 2002)

Warning!!!!!! BearMaster2 is back. This is the guy(or gal) that purposely made inflamatory comments earlier this year and then forwarded them to the opposition so that sportsman would look bad. Be careful of BearMaster2's agenda!!!!


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## niner93 (Mar 18, 2003)

I agree with you Bob completely. We have to take a victory no matter what kind of victory it is. Jenny is just trying to please as many voters as she can. In this case she doesn't loose the entire anti vote and she gives us hunters a foot in the door. Lets not  .

ytlab, if what you say happens about the birds leaving the area then why do Ohio and Indiana still have birds. It's true that some of the birds will wise up and move out of the southern area but I would venture to say that they would more likely move out of the farms and into the cities around here. This in turn will make more birds show up at Mary Jane's bird feeder and give her the perception that there are more dove's around.

I only have 6 acres but would gladly invite a few of you's to join me out back to enjoy a good hunt. And my lease rates are very reasonable. Get me a few of my favorite beverages and we'll enjoy them after the hunt :woohoo1:


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## BearMaster2 (Jan 22, 2004)

Oh yea Zeboy, getting a little paranoid? Guess again. At least my letter to the editor got published in the Jackson Citizen Patriot in support of dove hunting. Don't know what "inflamatory statements" you're referring to, everything I posted here is how it worked out didn't it? We just proved we own the Senate, got all the votes I told you we would (my source is right on), I do have some connections. If the antis are watching so what, it didn't do them any good did it.


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## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

> We just proved we own the Senate, got all the votes I told you we would (my source is right on), I do have some connections


It's these kind of comments that hurt us with our legislators. Your previous posts also referred to us "owning the legislature" or "having them in our pocket". Your disrespectful post were copied from this board and distributed to members of the Senate shortly after you posted them.

In the future please consider the context of your posts, as the other side is sure to us it against us.

Neal


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## Aggie1 (Feb 25, 2004)

You have sources all right BearMaster2, it just happens to be with the Michigan Humane Society. 

You are with them or you just aren't sharpest knife in the drawer.  I think it is the former not the latter.


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## BearMaster2 (Jan 22, 2004)

Since this has been reduced to blasting me Aggie 17 posts and Zeboy (guy or gal). Maybe you two might lose your tunnel vision and disrespectful accusations and see what sportsmen are saying on other boards since they ALSO have a stake in this, or are they ALL the Humane Society to if they say, be careful what you ask for, you just might get it?

I'm no sheep and I don't follow Aggie 17s. Yea, lets confirm "the majority is trying to take away a right from a minority" and "not to impose the ideology of the majority (or the governor)." Now that's real sharp if I say so myself. Bet you had to stay up all night to dream that up.

Anyone else want to insult or attack me?


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## brdhntr (Oct 1, 2003)

The part I don't like about the deal, is that it is always the hunters/pro-gun groups making the compromise. As soon as we compromise, the antis start working on taking what little we had. While I'd like to see a hunt here in MI, not having it will only mean I hunt in Ohio.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

As I peer into the Omnicient Orb........

I do think some of us are getting a little edgy and others are a tad bit full of themselves. Please, chill out folks.


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## Zeboy (Oct 4, 2002)

BearMaster2

I'm not here to debate anything with you. I'm am only pointing out that your posts earlier this year did much more to hurt the sportsman's cause than help it. So much so in fact, that I question if you are not actually the oposition???

That is why many of your earlier posts have been "stricken" from this board by the moderators. Your previous actions have spoken volumes. . . Neal summed things up very well in his post last night.


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## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Doug Jeanneret
(614) 888-4868 ext. 212

April 23, 2004
Beth Ruth (614) 888-4868 ext. 214 

Michigan Hunting Groups Discuss Dove Hunting Compromise 

(Lansing) - The coalition responsible for passage of dove hunting
legislation has asked the House of Representatives to delay sending
the bill to Governor Granholm while it discusses the terms of a possible
compromise. 

The Michigan Hunting Rights Campaign, a coalition of 16 organizations
and sporting goods businesses representing over a quarter-million
sportsmen, was formed by the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance to support
House Bill 5029. The bill was sponsored by Rep. Sue Tabor (R-Delta
Township).

HB 5029 passed the House 64-44 on November 4, 2003, and cleared the
Senate 22-15 on March 31, 2004. Because the Senate amended the bill,
the House of Representatives must vote on the Senate-passed version
before it can be sent to the governor. 

Several media outlets have reported on a possible compromise, proposed
by the Michigan United Conservation Clubs, prompting calls from
coalition members wanting details. 

In response, the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance has called on
Representative Tabor to request that House Speaker Rick Johnson delay the vote on the Senate version while hunting groups confer. 

"We're pleased that the governor is considering her options," said Rob
Sexton, vice president for government affairs with the Alliance.
"However, all we know so far is what has been reported in the media. 
We need the details of what is on the table." 

As reported in various news outlets, the compromise apparently calls
for a dove hunting season restricted to Southwest Michigan the first year,
and a study on dove hunting's effects after three years. Other
details are not known. 

"Statewide, members of the Michigan Hunting Rights Campaign labored
for more than eight months in support of dove hunting," said Bill Walker,
well-known sportsmen's activist and former president of the Michigan
Bear Hunters Association. "Our members want to know what is going on,
and we want their input. We owe them that much." 

Sexton said the Alliance was continuing its call to action to
sportsmen to contact the governor in support of HB 5029. "We've gotten this far by making sure our voices were heard," he said. "Hunters need to keep up the good work."


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## Neal (Mar 20, 2001)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE (May 3, 2004)
From the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance
A recent newspaper ad clearly demonstrates that national animal rights groups are behind the effort to oppose Michigan&#8217;s dove hunting bill.
A full-page advertisement in the Lansing State Journal calls on Gov. Jennifer Granholm to veto House Bill 5029, Michigan&#8217;s dove bill. The ad is signed by anti-hunting organizations including the Washington, D.C.-based Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) and the New York-based Fund for Animals.
During the debate on HB 5029, opponents portray themselves as Michigan citizens. However, hunters and anglers recognize the HSUS as the nation&#8217;s largest animal rights organization.
The HSUS &#8220;strongly opposes&#8221; recreational hunting and calls it &#8220;fundamentally at odds with the values of a humane, just, and caring society.&#8221;
Mike Markarian, president of the Fund for Animals has never attempted to disguise his organization&#8217;s anti-hunting agenda.
&#8220;Ultimately, we&#8217;re out to stop all hunting,&#8221; he told the Columbus Dispatch in 1998. &#8220;Dove hunting is particularly vulnerable.&#8221;
The role of anti-hunting groups in the effort to defeat Michigan&#8217;s dove hunting bill comes as no surprise to members of the Michigan Hunting Rights Campaign, a coalition of sportsmen&#8217;s organizations formed by the U.S. Sportsmen&#8217;s Alliance to support House Bill 5029.
&#8220;We&#8217;ve said all along that the chief opposition to dove hunting comes from national animal rights groups,&#8221; explained Rob Sexton, vice president for government affairs with the Alliance. &#8220;Their willingness to spend thousands of dollars on full-page newspaper ads to influence the governor demonstrates the degree of their involvement.&#8221;
Sexton calls on Michigan sportsmen to continue contacting Gov. Granholm&#8217;s office in support of the bill. He said they should emphasize the in-state support the bill has received from hunters, anglers and trappers. Gov. Granholm can be reached at (517) 373-3400. Messages can also be sent to P.O. Box 30013,Lansing, Michigan 48909 or faxed to (517) 335-6863.
House Bill 5029 passed with bi-artisan support in both chambers. It passed the House, 64-44, on November 4, 2003, and cleared the Senate, 22-15, on March 31, 2004.


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

The fact is if we fight with each other we all lose this is a hunting issue for a season to allow Michigan hunters to pursue the most widely hunted gamebird in North America. We should all jump on to get this thing going. I hate the idea of an experimental season that is ok if you are a property owner in those select counties but what about the rest of the state? I get so mad when i think that this bill has passed and passed again but this Governor who is from another damn country won't pass it into law this is typical because she cannot take a stance on any issue!!! Lets get this thing rolling and call her all day long and let her people know WE WANT IT NOW!!!! We have been trying to do this for 30 years I think the time has come.

AW


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

The problem with the Governor is that she is trying to please everyone. It is an unfortunate fact that the way our system works doesn't always bring out the most logical conclusion. It brings about whatever conclusion the decision makers think will get them (or not cost them) the most votes. Gov. Grandholm is trying to ride the fence and give the hunters a little hoping we will support her, and on the other hand she is trying to appease the anti's by being able to say that she didn't allow a statewide dove hunt. Sound scientific fact has nothing to do with her decision making process. I think she needs to be reminded that a good portion of the most vocal anti's aren't Michigan residents that are even capable of voting for her.


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

I will buy that but it nontheless is very frustrating I have waited patiently and the two houses passed it why can't she just not sign it and let it become law isn't that an option that way the majority wins and she did not allow it to happen by signing the thing? Sorry to rant just a frustrated wannabee dove hunter is all.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

Trust me, you aren't alone in your frustration.
I think our level of frustration will be very well demonstrated in the next election.
I am sure our new Governor will be more sympathetic to our cause.


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