# Who Knows Windows?



## Paperboy 1 (Aug 7, 2008)

We built our home (yes...I was the general) just over 10 years. Our old brother in law, who built homes at the time yet I forgot they were "spec" homes, said Norco windows are really a great window. We spent over $18,000 on the windows for the home. I have had nothing, and I mean nothing, but problems since the first good downpour.

We bought them from Northeastern Window and Door in Harrisville. The owner, John and his crew, have never ever done s damn thing for us. I asked about a Rep. Said there wasn't one (?). They sent an employee to look at my windows years ago and said nothing could be done. I hear that from more people from this place.

Four of the windows have leaked during rain storms since they were installed are completely ruined. 90% off them right now (I know it's colder than usual, but they freeze up inside every year) are covered in ice at the base and up a good foot. The wood has turned BLACK! Black mold.

I would like a rep to come see this for themselves. I might as well have some old windows from a travel trailer. 

We need these windows replaced with QUALITY windows. Wonder what warranty the Norcos have/had.

The cabinet people (Shrock) didn't give a damn either. Good old Home Depot. Shoulda known.... My fault.

Any really good windows out there? Can I still get help from Norco? I've heard the don't exist. Its Genweld? Same crap window different name?

I have been treated crappy and very plastic if I do go in Northeastern Window. They could care less. One of these days it's going to bite them in the arrs.

Help me here. I'll try and post some pics from this morning.


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## Paperboy 1 (Aug 7, 2008)

See if this works.


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## Paperboy 1 (Aug 7, 2008)

Another one. One more to follow.

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## Paperboy 1 (Aug 7, 2008)

Help me guys. Some one want to come and give us an estimate on slowly replacing most of these crap windows?


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

When you asked if anyone knows windows, I thought you were referring to a very different kind of thing! :lol:

Can you step back a few feet and show the rest of the window in the photo? Your pictures just show a corner.


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## Paperboy 1 (Aug 7, 2008)

Murphy said:


> When you asked if anyone knows windows, I thought you were referring to a very different kind of thing! :lol:
> 
> Can you step back a few feet and show the rest of the window in the photo? Your pictures just show a corner.


Sure... Brb.

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## Paperboy 1 (Aug 7, 2008)

Here Murphy. This room has three 5x7 casement windows. You should see the trapazoid ones upstairs! Twelve feet high. Nine feet across the base. The joys of a log type home.


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## Paperboy 1 (Aug 7, 2008)

Not the greatest pics. Here's another.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

I'm by no means an expert but it looks to me like you have improper insulation. To me the warm air looks like it's hitting the cold air. If the insulation was packed too tight around the window that will happen.


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## Paperboy 1 (Aug 7, 2008)

2508speed said:


> I'm by no means an expert but it looks to me like you have improper insulation. To me the warm air looks like it's hitting the cold air. If the insulation was packed too tight around the window that will happen.


??? Improper what? When the home was built the blown in sticky cellulose was applied. That's one thing that was done properly. The ceiling has 16" thick of insulation.

Nothing is packed around the windows. One person said to turn off the humidifier that works directly with my squirrel cage. ??? No! 
We have an outside woodburner that ties into our forced air furnace. I never use the real furnace. Just for back up.

So far no window people.


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## greyghost (Dec 22, 2008)

So you don't know anyone huh?


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## hommer23 (Nov 20, 2012)

In the pictures it looks like, the hinge side that is freezing?. Before I could say what the problem is I would need some more information.


1. When the windows were put in were they flashed on the top?
2. What type of siding is on the house?
3. What type of insulation is around the window?
4. are the windows wood or clad on the outside?


Just shooting from the hip I would say it is a installation problem of some kind, either a weather strip left out or improper insulation. The other problem that it could be is a twist or out of square when they were installed and there are several ways that could happen.


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

When the windows are installed, there is a gap going all the way around the window between the window frame, and the framed opening for the window.

That gap should have insulation in it.. Preferably low expansion foam, but good old fiberglass shoved in there will work pretty good too... 

Window's are not magic.. they leak heat in two ways.. Conduction, and convection.

Conduction happens when the material the window is made of transmits the cold to the inside.. or more appropriately, transmits the heat from the inside to the cold outside. (Always remember, energy flows from high to low, hot to cold.. never backward)

If your windows are made of wood, conduction is going to be quite low because wood is not that great of a conductor.. 

So, we look to convection.. in the case of a window, this means a physical opening where air can freely travel from point a to point b. Lack of insulation around the window, poor or missing seals between two moving pieces of the window, etc etc.

There's no such thing as a "window specialist" until you get to the engineers who design the glass. Even the folks who install them usually have no idea what they are doing or why.. They just follow a routine that they were trained for.


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

Paperboy 1 said:


> ??? Improper what? When the home was built the blown in sticky cellulose was applied. That's one thing that was done properly. The ceiling has 16" thick of insulation.
> 
> Nothing is packed around the windows.
> So far no window people.
> ...


Do you mean that there was no fiberglass insulation put between the window frame and the rough opening?

That would let a lot of cold penetrate around the frame. To the extent that you are getting ice build up I do not think so.

I was a carpenter for years and never really cared for Norco products. I am a fan of Anderson windows as they back up their products.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

Murphy, I love how you say it like you see it. Obviously there was something not done right. Other guy said it could be the flashing, or widow jacked or twisted. Could be all of the above. But I would bet improper installation of some kind and it could be insulation. Anderson will stand behind their windows if installed properly. So will any window manufacturer.


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

While not a hard rule, in general, anytime I see something going/gone wrong in a situation that depends on general laborers, its usually not a manufacturing defect.

To the OP..
At this point, the leaking window isn't the biggest concern.. I would put a fan(s) next to the windows to blow some air across them to dry that moisture up to prevent any further mold growth. 

One other thing to consider is the environmental factors in the home as compared to the outside.

If your home is kept at 60 degrees to save energy, and its -20 outside, and your wife keeps making chicken soup while your children play with their 3 fish tanks, you're going to see frost build up on the windows. (you get my point yes?).. 

That said, your frost build up does look extreme.. 

Check that insulation around the window!!


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

2508speed said:


> Murphy, I love how you say it like you see it. Obviously there was something not done right. Other guy said it could be the flashing, or widow jacked or twisted. Could be all of the above. But I would bet improper installation of some kind and it could be insulation. Anderson will stand behind their windows if installed properly. So will any window manufacturer.


Ya.. those famous key words "if installed properly"...


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## Paperboy 1 (Aug 7, 2008)

2508speed said:


> Murphy, I love how you say it like you see it. Obviously there was something not done right. Other guy said it could be the flashing, or widow jacked or twisted. Could be all of the above. But I would bet improper installation of some kind and it could be insulation. Anderson will stand behind their windows if installed properly. So will any window manufacturer.


By code these windows were installed, supposedly. It is a major GOOD OLD BOYS club up here. The sealing strips that are applied over the nailing fins was done properly. I did it! They were properly surrounded by insulation at time of install. Two of the leakers I can see were warped after inspecting them myself years ago. Still the store we got them from NEVER DID A THING FOR US. NO REP EVER CAME OUT! 

Currently every opening has some form of ice. From a LOT to so so. Looks like 1960 mobile home windows were installed.

BTW: They are metal clad outer with wood on the inside. The new windows will have the fake wood look and be vinyl inside. 

This sucks. My wife's side of the bed is by one of the 5x7 casements in the Master and my head by a 4x4 casement. I have worn a knit hat to bed and the wife throws an extra blanket on herself. I love my home. Hate my windows. Next to the wiring job, the windows are the worst thing about it.

Who has great windows? Anderson? Really? True Pella from Canada still around?

Pm me with a phone # troops. Even it's one window at a time, over the next two years they have to be replaced. The home is only 10+ years old. BS!

We have 8" spruce log siding (needs to be restained) the entire outside. Really a nice home. The windows and electrical suck.

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## Paperboy 1 (Aug 7, 2008)

Murphy said:


> While not a hard rule, in general, anytime I see something going/gone wrong in a situation that depends on general laborers, its usually not a manufacturing defect.
> 
> To the OP..
> At this point, the leaking window isn't the biggest concern.. I would put a fan(s) next to the windows to blow some air across them to dry that moisture up to prevent any further mold growth.
> ...


Home kept at 65*. No brat children running around here!!!!! Wife's at work. No chicken soup.

The windows have on them a 1/2" of ice or more. Fans? I was going to try something to thaw them somewhat and then apply, as I would to the outside logs for the same reason, a spray mix of 50/50 true bleach. Wipe clean and put the fans back on those areas. Problem is....the same window is there and it's not February yet. How many times this winter am I going to keep doing that routine??

Try punching in norco.com. Not there.

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## CrashAxe (Jul 10, 2010)

Sounds like you really need windows but...Do you have a "return air make-up" in your heating system? Is it forced air or strictly hot water; first? If it's forced air, you should have a little fresh, outside air coming into the cold air return side. This will really help with the "humidity" issues.
I have built my own home, I would be willing to help with labor if you decide to tackle these chores yourself.
CrashAxe...


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