# Most over hunted opener spot?



## duckman#1 (Sep 22, 2002)

I've seen some postings on how crowded some lakes are on opening day and thought I would ask everyone: whats the most crowded spot on opening day you have ever encountered?
I would have to say the Muskegon Marsh, Haymarsh or perhpas Martini Lakes.


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## Firefighter (Feb 14, 2007)

I used to hunt a private lake in oakland co. Won't mention the name 'cause it will be more ruined than it already is. 3 years ago, us and one other group on opener....2 years ago, 4 groups......last year, 8 groups. TOTAL BS!!! (mind you this lake is less than 30 acres) Idiots coming out and throwing dekes during prime time. Guys basically setting up on top of others, and even shooting directly towards other groups. ( I took cover more than once) :rant: Two groups even shot at a flock of a dozen SWANS!!!! (yes, i called the DNR). It was useless calling, cause morons would skybust birds that were committed to our setup. 
Unfortunately, that hunt was my first, and LAST duck hunt of the year last year. It left such a bad taste in my mouth, I really have no desire to duck hunt again unless its a spot I know I have exclusive permission to hunt, or I know that there will be RESPECTFUL groups out.


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## neil duffey (Feb 22, 2004)

lsc is by far the most over hunted day one spot. so bad that we take at least 3 boats w/ us and put a man in each at about 1 am... maybe 75 yard to our right and left, if not 100yds, and stay there all night and 30 mins to shooting time we get out and walk to the boat in the middle, just so we know we wont have yahoo's setting up 30yards from us. works wonders... and iv hadppl actualy set up 25 paces from my spread. i know because i counted it out as i walked over to talk w/ them about it.


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## huntingmaniac45 (Nov 22, 2005)

neil duffey said:


> lsc is by far the most over hunted day one spot. so bad that we take at least 3 boats w/ us and put a man in each at about 1 am... maybe 75 yard to our right and left, if not 100yds, and stay there all night and 30 mins to shooting time we get out and walk to the boat in the middle, just so we know we wont have yahoo's setting up 30yards from us. works wonders... and iv hadppl actualy set up 25 paces from my spread. i know because i counted it out as i walked over to talk w/ them about it.


:lol:We do the same thing.


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## chuckinduck (May 28, 2003)

I agree, LSC is the worst I've seen


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## Firefighter (Feb 14, 2007)

I'd love to set up two boats to protect my spot, but its such a small lake, and hey, they shot at swans! the idiots probally wouldnt have a problem shootin at me


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## ScavengerMan (Sep 6, 2006)

Like many here, I've hunted multiple openers in a variety of places for many years. There are some seriously overcrowded places on Saginaw Bay, but I would say the biggest kook show of all is Martini Flooding Project in Mecosta County. The place is an absolute ZOO opening day and sounds like WWIII.


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## Jethro (May 8, 2003)

*



we take at least 3 boats w/ us and put a man in each at about 1 am... maybe 75 yard to our right and left, if not 100yds, and stay there all night and 30 mins to shooting time we get out and walk to the boat in the middle, just so we know we wont have yahoo's setting up 30yards from us.

Click to expand...

*...new one to me:16suspect
sounds like a crappy thing to do.
Stunts like that just add to the problem

*



Haymarsh or perhpas Martini Lakes.

Click to expand...

*They have my votes


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## dinoday (Feb 22, 2004)

Pontiac Lake is a nightmare on opening day...I avoid it like the plague:yikes:


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## spiritofthewild_06 (Mar 20, 2007)

ScavengerMan said:


> Like many here, I've hunted multiple openers in a variety of places for many years. There are some seriously overcrowded places on Saginaw Bay, but I would say the biggest kook show of all is Martini Flooding Project in Mecosta County. The place is an absolute ZOO opening day and sounds like WWIII.


I hunted there only one opener, wasn't too fond of shot literally raining down on me...never will I go up there again!


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## sean (May 7, 2002)

Saginaw Bay and Tawas Lake have more people than ducks sometimes.


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## neil duffey (Feb 22, 2004)

Jethro said:


> ...new one to me:16suspect
> sounds like a crappy thing to do.
> Stunts like that just add to the problem
> 
> ...


yeah i guess, if your the tool that gets to opening day late:lol: may the smartest crew win...


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## Swamp Boss (Mar 14, 2003)

I would have to say it is Saginaw Bay. Year in year out you have parties setting up w/in 30 yards of you, coming out 10 minutes before legal and raining shot on you. A real treat are the hungover crew. You hear them before you see them. They get out of the boat when they hit a mudflat and following a good deal of banter light up a smoke and head toward shore w/much of their gear on foot. That is when the real entertainment begins. The cursing (and their total ignorance) of the of the lights beaming @ them from the shore, falling in the mud, and usually the wretch who pukes his guts out after too much revelling the previous evening.

I get out early each opener for the show. 

This year w/NQP being closed there will be even more entertainment.

Surprisingly some years I also take my share of ducks when the rubes pick up to leave -until next season- they create a good bit of commotion.


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## ScavengerMan (Sep 6, 2006)

Swamp Boss said:


> This year w/NQP being closed there will be even more entertainment.


Nayanquing Point Closed??? Do you know something I don't?

I thought just the reserved hunts the first two days of season were canceled due to uncertain water. It is my understanding the regular draw will be taking place.


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## sean (May 7, 2002)

ScavengerMan said:


> Nayanquing Point Closed??? Do you know something I don't?
> 
> I thought just the reserved hunts the first two days of season were canceled due to uncertain water. It is my understanding the regular draw will be taking place.


He's talking about opening weekend crowd.


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## sean (May 7, 2002)

Jethro said:


> ...new one to me:16suspect
> sounds like a crappy thing to do.
> Stunts like that just add to the problem
> 
> ...


I do the same thing, its either that or get shot at when people are setting up 50 yeards from you. Getting shot, now that would be a "crappy" thing to do. The things you gotta do to battle the "yahoo crew" on opening weekend. I swear some of the people you encounter out there, I cant believe the government lets them breed, they are part of the reason we have some real winners in our society.:lol::lol::idea:


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## Limbender (Sep 13, 2006)

Ottawa Marsh or the Maple River WW3 out there


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## griffondog (Dec 27, 2005)

Grass lake is the worst hunt I've ever had. About 10 years ago a friend who lives across the street conned me into taking the kids on opening day. I was in such fear for my life I left with the kids about 10 min after shooting time. Thought I would be nice and wait to grab my decoys. Head out at nine to grab my decoys don't know why I bothered with the trip. Most of the decoys are sitting on the bottom of the lake. They must of shot a box of shells at them.


Griff


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## lang49 (Aug 1, 2005)

I vote Mecosta County as the craziest area as a whole...hunted there three years while I was in school. Your best bet for opening morning- find a little secluded mudhole and shoot some woodies...


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## Shlwego (Sep 13, 2006)

I've hunted opening day all over the state. Here are my picks for craziest/most crowded in each zone: Zone 1 - First Lake on Drummond Island; Zone 2 - Tawas Lake; Zone 3 - The Vermet Unit at Pte Mouille. 

Of these, I'd say the Vermet is the scariest. I've done several openers there. Shot raining down on you is nothing - that's just the speed gravity brings it down, and it doesn't hurt. Shot ripping thru the cattails is something else, and that happens all morning at the Vermet. As soon as the first gomer shoots at a coot 20 minutes before legal shooting time all hell breaks loose. Laying down on the floor of your boat to keep from getting hit is highly recommended. Then after it settles down a bit, you can watch the moron in the neighboring party "sneak" thru the cattails and shoot at your decoys, or watch them chase a cripple with a motorized boat just blazing away (and wishing your cell phone battery hadn't died). 

We gave up these areas a few years ago, but I'm glad to hear that there are so many areas that are crowded like that on opening day. 'Cause everybody knows that that's where all the ducks are....:evilsmile


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## Shlwego (Sep 13, 2006)

ajmorell said:


> Shlwego said:
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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

I think Coldwater Charters has beat this into everyone's head around here pretty well:lol:

I think this rule would come to a suprise to MANY duck hunters. I know I mentioned it before to a guy at the gun club that hunts the Grand and he basically told me I didn't know what I was talking about. I'm sure the respose was more he didn't want to accept that he can not legally hunt where he does.


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## lang49 (Aug 1, 2005)

TSS Caddis said:


> I think this rule would come to a suprise to MANY duck hunters.


 
I agree...few people really understand it...

Rivers are pretty clear...the Lakes seem more convoluted:

I have to laugh at some of the DNR info on the subject...Making matters worse, to be prosecuted under the recreational tresspass act, I believe the land in question has to be posted...and bottomland seldom are...

Per "ask the DNR" answer ID 1410"

---- 01/15/2002 06:45 AM ---------------------------------------------
I understand the situation with respect to hunting on rivers and its relationship to private land on either side, but what is the law with respect to hunting on lakes, with a public access, in relationship to surrounding private land?







Answer At 01/16/2002 04:38 PM we wrote - 

Lakes are somewhat different, however, the same principles apply and property owners have the exclusive right to hunt over their bottomlands.

Theoretically each property owner on inland lakes owns a pie-shaped piece of the submerged bottomlands. They have the exclusive right to hunting over those bottomlands regardless of public access to the lake or the public nature of the waters.

If you are asking under civil case law if you have a right to hunt on this lake over the state's bottomlands, the answer is "yes". However, you would have no right to hunt over bottomlands owned by another person. Hunting is an exclusive right of the riparian and invited guests.

*If you are asking under criminal law if you would be in violation of state law to hunt anywhere on the lake, the answer is "no".* Provided the lake is a public lake, you have a legal right to be on the lake and can navigate the entire surface of the lake without restraint. *However, you would have no civil right to hunt over another's bottomlands unless you are an invited guest.*


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## n.pike (Aug 23, 2002)

Tawas Lake for sure, second would be Houghton Lake. Wouldn't the problem be solved if the whole state opened up the same day, instead of everyone converging on one zone opener, then rushing in on the next zone opener?


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## Firefighter (Feb 14, 2007)

n.pike said:


> Tawas Lake for sure, second would be Houghton Lake. Wouldn't the problem be solved if the whole state opened up the same day, instead of everyone converging on one zone opener, then rushing in on the next zone opener?


Interesting point....Im sure it would be a little less crowded, but not much. My experience is only the hardcore waterfowlers jump zones, and these folks understand the unwritten rules of "If youre not theyre first, go someplace else". Idiots pretty much live everywhere.

Heres another Idea, Make the weekend before season opened to hunting, but, but have an unwritten rule that TRUE sportsmen wont hunt. That way, all the lesser forms of life will have their one day of hunting for the year, (90% cant shoot anyways) the ducks will have 5 days to forget about all the loud noise , and the bums will go back to their cases of Natural Ice Light. The real opener will be peaceful.........

Or not


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## ajmorell (Apr 27, 2007)

Shlwego said:


> ajmorell said:
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## GRUNDY (Jun 18, 2005)

If the water, or river is considered a "navigable" waterway. The bottom of the river is owned by the government, and may be hunted. From what I can tell the K-zoo river is condidered "navigable" up to the dam. I would imagine the same holds true for the Grand and other rivers up to a certain point. Past that point, you will be trespassing, as Bombcast and others have said, the reparian landowner owns to a point in the middle of the stream. The reparian landowner also owns the hunting rights to that property.

The law stinks, and severly limits hunting opportunity. but its the law.

Brian


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## ScavengerMan (Sep 6, 2006)

GRUNDY said:


> If the water, or river is considered a "navigable" waterway. The bottom of the river is owned by the government, and may be hunted. From what I can tell the K-zoo river is condidered "navigable" up to the dam. I would imagine the same holds true for the Grand and other rivers up to a certain point. Past that point, you will be trespassing, as Bombcast and others have said, the reparian landowner owns to a point in the middle of the stream.
> Brian


If that is true, how come the issue of "*Navigable*" isn't menitoned in the waterfowl guide? By practice I would agree with you. I know two rivers in particular that get hunted regularly by non-land owners and they have no problems with law enforcement. But, that doesn't mean they wouldn't if someone raised a stink. Does anyone know exactly how the law works in regard to navigable rivers?


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## ajmorell (Apr 27, 2007)

GRUNDY said:


> If the water, or river is considered a "navigable" waterway. The bottom of the river is owned by the government, and may be hunted. From what I can tell the K-zoo river is condidered "navigable" up to the dam. I would imagine the same holds true for the Grand and other rivers up to a certain point. Past that point, you will be trespassing, as Bombcast and others have said, the reparian landowner owns to a point in the middle of the stream. The reparian landowner also owns the hunting rights to that property.
> 
> The law stinks, and severly limits hunting opportunity. but its the law.
> 
> Brian



I just got off of the phone with a CO and they said nothing to effect of it being navigable. Just that the land owner had hunting and trapping rights 1/2 way across the river and unless you have permission you can get a trespassing ticket. I'm not calling you a liar, but that would mean that the majority of the Grand is legal to hunt as long as you are in the water, which was my initial understanding.


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## Duckman Racing (Oct 11, 2004)

Whether or not the river is considered navigable has nothing to do with the ability to hunt it. Rivers are not huntable unless you have permission, or there is state land on at least one side. Period.

If a river is navigable it is open to fishing, by boat, wading, or otherwise, even if the property on both sides is private, and you are allowed to leave the banks to circumvent obstructions. If the river/stream is not navigable, then you can not fish it without permission, unless there is state land on at least one side.


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## ScavengerMan (Sep 6, 2006)

ajmorell said:


> I just got off of the phone with a CO and they said nothing to effect of it being navigable. Just that the land owner had hunting and trapping rights 1/2 way across the river and unless you have permission you can get a trespassing ticket. I'm not calling you a liar, but that would mean that the majority of the Grand is legal to hunt as long as you are in the water, which was my initial understanding.


 
Thank you that's what I thought. However, for some reason that law doesn't seem to be enforced on some large rivers that see a considerable number of non land owner hunters.


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## ajmorell (Apr 27, 2007)

ScavengerMan said:


> Thank you that's what I thought. However, for some reason that law doesn't seem to be enforced on some large rivers that see a considerable number of non land owner hunters.



I can tell you from experience that I have never see a CO on the Grand River in the Grand Rapids and surrounding area. Not by any means saying anyone can/should try to get away with anything, but from my personal experience I have never heard of anyone being stopped. I'm not going to risk it anymore. There are areas I have hunted in the past that I now know I can't hunt without permission and I intend to stay off of them until I get permission.


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## lang49 (Aug 1, 2005)

ScavengerMan said:


> If that is true, how come the issue of "*Navigable*" isn't menitoned in the waterfowl guide? By practice I would agree with you. I know two rivers in particular that get hunted regularly by non-land owners and they have no problems with law enforcement. But, that doesn't mean they wouldn't if someone raised a stink. Does anyone know exactly how the law works in regard to navigable rivers?


"Navigable" applyies more to fishing and boating than hunting. If it river/creek is not navigable, you don't even have the right to wade it or canoe through it without permission.


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## Shlwego (Sep 13, 2006)

I would think if you could canoe through it, then by definition it would be "navigable," right?


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## ajmorell (Apr 27, 2007)

Shlwego said:


> I would think if you could canoe through it, then by definition it would be "navigable," right?



Call the DNR and ask them.


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## TNL (Jan 6, 2005)

Definition of "navitigable' is if you can float a log through it without it getting hung up. This definition goes back to the lumbering era when lumberjacks floated their logs downstream to the mills.

A navitgable stream or river as so defined can be waded or floated, but the adjoining lands can not be entered without permission unless it's public land. All hunting laws apply.

I spoke to the local prosecutor about the Grand. He said it's a Federal waterway, a part of the Great Lakes and it's connecting waters. To be sure, the Coast Guard maintains Aids to Navigation (bouys) up the rvier a number of miles. He said he would not prosecute anyone legally hunting these water. Now he was unclear about if the protection ended at the end of the bouy markers, if we could stand in cattails (where does the land end and water begin), if we could hunt while anchored or not, and what could be leaglly posted.

Boehr, where are you?


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## ajmorell (Apr 27, 2007)

TNL said:


> Definition of "navitigable' is if you can float a log through it without it getting hung up. This definition goes back to the lumbering era when lumberjacks floated their logs downstream to the mills.
> 
> A navitgable stream or river as so defined can be waded or floated, but the adjoining lands can not be entered without permission unless it's public land. All hunting laws apply.
> 
> ...



Well technically doesn't *legally* hunting it mean adhering to what was described above. I personally talked to a CO and they never made any mention of particular parts being legal with the exception of those that were adjacent to public property. Also, this local prosecutor, is he a CO or a lawyer? If the latter, no offense but what he says has no bearing or relevance since he isn't the one issuing the citation.


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## TNL (Jan 6, 2005)

ajmorell said:


> Well technically doesn't *legally* hunting it mean adhering to what was described above. I personally talked to a CO and they never made any mention of particular parts being legal with the exception of those that were adjacent to public property. Also, this local prosecutor, is he a CO or a lawyer? If the latter, no offense but what he says has no bearing or relevance since he isn't the one issuing the citation.


He's a lawyer of course, The CO's can issue citations and THEN it's up to the prosecutor whether or not to press charges. It's a question of interpretaion of the law. This is where the prosecutor has bearing and relevance. Only judge or appelate court could overrule. It's unlikely that the CO would try to override the prosecutor's decision. Now this is just one guy from one county out of 83. I'm sure there are different opinions with regard to this. 

My guess is that it's not as black and white as it may seem. In fact, one of my hunting partners is a local LEO and he agrees with the prosecutor.

And no offense taken--we can only learn from good discussion.


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## ajmorell (Apr 27, 2007)

TNL said:


> He's a lawyer of course, The CO's can issue citations and THEN it's up to the prosecutor whether or not to press charges. It's a question of interpretaion of the law. This is where the prosecutor has bearing and relevance. Only judge or appelate court could overrule. It's unlikely that the CO would try to override the prosecutor's decision. Now this is just one guy from one county out of 83. I'm sure there are different opinions with regard to this.
> 
> My guess is that it's not as black and white as it may seem. In fact, one of my hunting partners is a local LEO and he agrees with the prosecutor.
> 
> And no offense taken--we can only learn from good discussion.



...and to be honest I would like to agree with them as well. The majority of the land bordering the river from where the dredge begins out to the lake is wooded or wetlands...there are a few areas that are homes and farm but I have never really heard of anyone being bothered by property owners out there. Like you said the problem is there are 83 different prosecutors and 83 different interpretations of the law. I think we have a great discussion going here, I just feel bad that we kind of hijacked the OP's thread.......duckman I apologize for that.


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## cshire (Sep 10, 2004)

Review the document at this link for a pretty thorough explanation of the various rights (fishing vs. hunting) and definitions of public and private waters.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/Water97e_142928_7.pdf

As a further twist to the situation regarding hunting on the Grand, it appears from this document (page 29, 2nd paragraph) that the State holds ownership to some lands on the Grand, Kalamazoo and Muskegon rivers . I have not been able to find a definition of these submerged lands however. Does anybody from the west side know how these areas are delineated?

If poster AJMorrell was hunting these submerged lands owned by the state he may well have been legal despite the private ownership of the adjoining uplands.


The other interesting point is (page 12, 2nd paragraph):

"It is not physically possible to fairly divide the surface area of a lake among the riparian owners in proportion to their land ownership, or by projection of their property boundaries which reach the water at varying angles. The courts have held, therefore, that all riparian owners share an equal right to a reasonable use of the entire surface area of the lake. Owners can build docks and make other improvements to facilitate the use of their property and the exercise of their rights, insofar as such improvements do not encroach upon the same rights of other owners."

By this logic any lake with a DNR access or launch (State owned) would allow a non lake property owner to hunt the lake as *all *owners share an equal right to the use of the *entire* surface of the lake.

Interesting and complicated stuff this water law.​


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## DuckDogMan (Jul 30, 2007)

anyone know about brushes marina? how far away is it from bayport?


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## sean (May 7, 2002)

DuckDogMan said:


> anyone know about brushes marina? how far away is it from bayport?


There isnt any ducks around there, for some reason they dont like that area. :16suspect


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## Zorba (Jan 24, 2007)

I think that the ducks know what spots are over hunted also. When a spot is going to be crowed on opening day or any day in the field, you are much better off to go out not knowing were to set up. wait for light, look were the hunters are not, and set up. Most likely thats were the ducks are.


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## sfpenn (Nov 27, 2004)

Years ago my son and I hunted Maple River opening day in the afternoon. We were set up in some flooded corn and at about 4:00 p.m. a boat loaded with four "hunters" motored through our decoys and set up on the edge of the woods at the end of our corn row about 35 yards away. The boat was silver and not camo'ed. They made no effort to hide themselves or the boat. One of the "hunters" was wearing a red and black checked shirt. Another was drinking a large red 2-liter bottle of Coke in plain sight. All four were sharing some "foul smelling cigarette." We didn't need to worry about getting shot rained on us because our day was done at that point....


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