# bounty on Coyotes?



## springdale

I have a thought about our Coyote problem in Northern Michigan and the UP, as you know they take a huge % of the fawns along with small game. I purpose we add a $1.00 fee on all hunting license's for predator control. Then put a $50.00 bounty on Coyotes to be paid for with the extra $1.00 fund. This would help the Coyote over population along with helping the economy with extra hunters. I don't know how many license's are sold every year but it must be well over 1,000,000. That would be a lot of Coyotes, plus the State could sell them back to the fur dealers. What do you guy's think?


----------



## thelastlemming

$ 50.00 a coyote


----------



## ridgewalker

I agree about having a bounty but $50 is way too high. Even $10 would encourage folks to take them. Even better open coyote hunting and trapping to year around-no closed season. Yes, this means fur in poorer condition in the summer but it would keep the pressure on them.


----------



## springdale

With fuel and all, the $50.00 is not too much. This would get lots of people hunting & traping them, the $1.00 add on would give the DNR over $1,000,000 to pay for them, this is 20 thousand Coyote's! And I know there would be more money in the fund than that because they sell almost that many Deer tags alone. In a couple years there numbers would be down and the fund would then have a surplus too be used in other area's. I dont see why it cant be done, a buck per tag is well worth it.


----------



## wetwork

:lol::lol::lol:Fund and Surplus,:lol::lol: in the same sentence:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## gilgetter

Tell an ohio yote from a michigan yote? how about an indiana, or kentucky yote? I cant. and for 50 bucks a wack you can bet every knothead east of the mississippi will be headed to michigan. with a bag of mangy yotes.


----------



## Lovells

Yes, In theory I agree a bounty would work in controlling the yote problem. Here's the but, I agree with gilgetter how would you stop the people from other states, dumping their problems on us and taking our $.


----------



## Quakstakr

Are any of you old enough (I'm not that old), to remember when Michigan had a bounty on yotes.

My memory aint so good, but I think it was $5 on males and $15 or $20 on females?


----------



## wally-eye

Damn I'm old but it ain't been that long. :lol::lol::lol: $15 males, $20 females....all politics....with the low price of fur you'll never see another bounty...unless it's something ridiculous like $5.00. 



http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...ewJAAAAIBAJ&sjid=HkoDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6866,7887083


----------



## Talntedmrgreen

I though only michigan residents could hunt yotes in MI?

From the DNR site:

*License:* 
Residents possessing a valid small-game license may hunt coyote during the established season.
*
*


----------



## Talntedmrgreen

Has there even been any sort of official determination that there are too many yotes? You need to budget in years of expensive studies and other BS before the state would ever even discuss a bounty on anything.

I believe there used to be a bounty in MI on yotes, and there still is on things like crow and starling. It's something like $0.10 each (or less), and you have to take the heads to your county clerk for payment.


----------



## Talntedmrgreen

Someone give this a read...its a document about yote bounties in MI from 1959. I haven't read throug, but the first page indicates a $15 bounty for males and $20 for females.

http://ww2.dnr.state.mi.us/publicat...abitat/reports/wld-library/2200-2299/2229.pdf


And never mind about the crow/starling bounty, that was repealed in 2006.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(ql...g.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=2005-hb-5351


----------



## multibeard

Yup 
Walley-eye you are old. 

There was a fox bounty as well as yotes.

The bountys did not work then and will not work now. One of our old longline bounty trappers from western Newaygo county bounty trapped $5.00 fox all over. He only killed the pups and adult males in the summer. The females were relesed to have another litter the next spring. Like a farmer he did not kill off his breeding stock as that wold have ended his income.


----------



## DANIEL MARK ZAPOLSKI

Quakstakr said:


> Are any of you old enough (I'm not that old), to remember when Michigan had a bounty on yotes.
> 
> My memory aint so good, but I think it was $5 on males and $15 or $20 on females?


i am old enough and do remember the bounties. $5 for a fox and 15 bucks for a male yote and 20 bucks for a female yote (i also collected on a couple of foxs and a yote). back then we didn't have the total mess we have now and anyone shooting one made the news around town.


----------



## Quakstakr

At least one of my darts hit the board. :lol:


----------



## springdale

It didnt work back then? Seems like we had birds and lots of rabbits when I was a kid (1959) we all had our fav snowshow rabbit spots.
Maybe $50 is too high but it sure would get peoples attention and if only Mich residents were eligible it might stop some of the bootleggin!


----------



## griffondog

I'm all in for this one!:woohoo1:Toasted my truck today so this would mean I could buy a new one with my fur check again. Just like the 70's.

Do you realize you would have to kill 70 to 80% of the population for a minimum of 3 years and most likely 5 years to start to hurt the population. It ain't going to work, but you can count me in to give it a try. 

The only reason we have a season on yotes is a moral reason. Your not going to sell to the general public killing wet females with pups. Pictures of dead pups do not put us on the high ground of public opinion.

Can you imagine what our woods would look like with every yahoo deer hunter sitting on a bait pile of rotting meat waiting to kill a 50 buck bounty coyote. Fighting over gut piles to hunt off! I't would be anarchy all over again in the woods. :evilsmile

Plus we would start acting like the bear and deer forum.:help:

Griff


----------



## plugger

I would kick in a buck a liscense for a 50 buck bounty on yotes. I also remember the bounty on yotes and fox, you seldom ever saw one. The last year or two alot of seriouus trappers have quit or cut way back because the fur check wont even cover the gas.


----------



## springdale

I'm really surprised on how many na-sayers there are on this subject. I dont see where trying something different in going to hurt. I dont know of any (quick fixes) for the deer and small game but do believe this would be a start. If one Coyote kills 5 fawns a year plus countless rabbits & birds, take out just 20 in your home area and you have made a difference. Just dont like the word (can't) it never gets anything done.

I think allot of you wernt around when the bounty was and dont realize how good the small game hunting was. I loved the rabbit hunting then and what a better way to get the kids involved, a single shot 410 a beagle and lets go!


----------



## multibeard

Do you guys realize that a lot of our small game is being taken by some thing that most of you think is a great thing to have around. Hawks and owls take alot of small game every year.

When I first started hunting there was no protection on hawks and owls. There was alot more small game around until the protection went on them.

Another predator or birds still in there nests is the nasty crow. They prey on other birds nests to feed the young in their own nests. Crow hunting seemed to become a thing of the past when we got stuck with a season on them.


----------



## springdale

multibeard said:


> Do you guys realize that a lot of our small game is being taken by some thing that most of you think is a great thing to have around. Hawks and owls take alot of small game every year.
> 
> When I first started hunting there was no protection on hawks and owls. There was alot more small game around until the protection went on them.
> 
> Another predator or birds still in there nests is the nasty crow. They prey on other birds nests to feed the young in their own nests. Crow hunting seemed to become a thing of the past when we got stuck with a season on them.


I agree big time, but the Fed's aint gonna budge on the hawks and owls, but the crow should not have a season and they do take a ton of eggs and probably chicks and such.


----------



## griffondog

Sprindale

This is nothing new it's been tried for a hundred years with coyotes and all they've done is increase in numbers. They are very adaptable and the methods needed to reduce there population will never be allowed by the general public. Here is 50 years of coyote research you should spend a little time reading some of it. It will give you a new perspective.

http://www.coyoteinformation.org/index.htm

Griff


----------



## springdale

griffondog said:


> Sprindale
> 
> This is nothing new it's been tried for a hundred years with coyotes and all they've done is increase in numbers. They are very adaptable and the methods needed to reduce there population will never be allowed by the general public. Here is 50 years of coyote research you should spend a little time reading some of it. It will give you a new perspective.
> 
> http://www.coyoteinformation.org/index.htm
> 
> Griff


There's that it cant work attiude again! For the last hundred years people didnt have the resources we have today. Radio collars have made Coyote hunting with hounds very successfull, perdator calls are much better, guys are looking for a reason to use that new 223 or 17hmr. I dont need a study to tell me if I shoot a Coyote today it wont be eating a Fawn this spring. 

I'm again surprised the Vice President of predater callers is against a $50 bounty paid for by the people.


----------



## Mister ED

Springdale - No offense ... but I'm not sure the yote population is the ROOT cause of all the issues you pointed out above (I could be wrong though). Looks like we are about the same age and I remember those days as well.

I believe there are more deer in most areas (of the state) than there were back in the 70s & 80s. In areas where there are less ... how many people have been blasting what ever they see ... filling 3 or 4 or more doe tags (think TB zone). In other areas the buck/doe ratio is so screwed up. If you remember back in the 70s & 80s ... it was pretty much one tag one buck and a small pool of anterless tags. And back then, archery hunting was in its infancy. If everyone out there in the archery season shot the equipment that we shot in the mid-late 70s ... over half would not be in the woods.
Mutlibeard just pointed out the birds of prey. Back then there were not that many around ... remember the whole DDT issue?? All birds of prey have made a marked comeback. I see eagles 5-6 times a year now ... a sighting back in the 'old days' would have been worthy of a spot on CNN.
On the flip side ... one critter we did not have back then was the turkey (not many anyways). Now, we have a slight abundance of turkeys. If the expansion of the yote population was the cause of the downfall of the other small game animals ... you would think that it would have had an equal effect on the turkey population growth.
Don't get me wrong ... I'd sure like to be able to go out and shoot snowshoes, pats, woodcock and pheasents like we used to (man I do not think I have shot a pheasent since '81). But I'm not so sure that yotes are the biggest issue.
---------


Dang ya'll type to dang fast.


----------



## springdale

I agree with you Ed, but its time to atleast start to take a stand. The turkeys up here have been declining in the last couple years but I think the winters have more to do with that than yotes. I dont know for sure if a bounty would help but dont see how it could hurt. Who has the answer is the question and its not me.


----------



## griffondog

springdale said:


> There's that it cant work attiude again! For the last hundred years people didnt have the resources we have today. Radio collars have made Coyote hunting with hounds very successfull, perdator calls are much better, guys are looking for a reason to use that new 223 or 17hmr. I dont need a study to tell me if I shoot a Coyote today it wont be eating a Fawn this spring.
> 
> I'm again surprised the Vise President of predater callers is against a $50 bounty paid for by the people.


Springdale I never said I wouldn't take a 50 dollar bill. I just said what you want to do won't work. What makes you think the coyote you shot isn't a mouse eater and all your doing it opening up a spot in the food chain for a pup from a female who likes to eat Deer. 

Read some of the research papers from the sight I posted to you. I would love some trapper welfare. Obama bucks for the trappers and predator callers.:lol:

Griff


----------



## TURKEYBILL

Griffondog I like the Obama bucks idea:lol:


----------



## FMann

If you truely want to help the small game come back to what it was back in the 70's and 80's try getting ride of more farrel cats they do more damage to the small game than any other predator out there! Another Big problem to the small game is no more fence rows, back then the farmers had fence rows between every field now they put crops right next to each other with no fence rows, that loss of habbitat along with the cats have all but wiped out the small game. The feds did a study out west in the late 90's on predator's trying to find out the reason for the lack of small game, what they found astonded them. The reason for the sudden decline in small game was 80% due to farrel cats and not fox, coyote or birds of pray.

Mr. Ed, I'm sorry but I have to dissagree about more deer than we had in the 70's & 80's or even the 90's. When I first bought my place (back in 93) we would see deer every day, now your lucky to see 1 or 2 in a season. I admit I don't have a great place for deer hunting but I also don't think we have the deer numbers we did back then. If you truely want to know what the deer herd is like start asking your butchers, the 3 I personaly know have lost about 2/3's of there business and I'm not believing that many people have started cutting up their own deer. I agree in some area's they have more deer (Rochester for example) but any place you can hunt them with out any worrys I believe they are way down. 

I agree we need to take more predators, like griffendog I'm not aposed to taking a bounty but I don't believe we will see one in the near future. 

Just my oppinion for what its worth.


----------



## Mapes

shoot I was happy getting 15 per coyote from a fur buyer.


----------



## gilgetter

As evil as the coyotes are, Im afraid that habitat loss is the bad guy, and I would love to see a bounty on that.


----------



## DabblerDuck

I am not sure about coyotes. They don't seem to be a huge problem. How about a bounty on feral swine?


----------



## springdale

gilgetter said:


> As evil as the coyotes are, Im afraid that habitat loss is the bad guy, and I would love to see a bounty on that.


Your on the right track Gilgetter, I believe years ago they had a $1.00 (or some amount) added on the license's for habitat also. I'm not saying this is a cure all, but if we dont do anything will anything change?

& Dabblerduck, Coyotes maynot be over populated everywhere, but I can tell you they are in the Northwest Lower. Between Bow, Gun, ML I dont miss many days in the field and hardly a day goes by without seeing or hearing them, & what is a bounty gonna hurt?

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2009/11/10/sk-coyote.html


----------



## DabblerDuck

I just think that, if I had to choose my battles, I would choose a different one. Would it hurt anything? I doubt that it would. But, I am in no way qualified to say either way. It's just my opinion and I may be wrong.

By the way, where in the northwest lower do you see all of the coyotes? Where do you think that the highest population is?


----------



## bigsablemike

springdale said:


> With fuel and all, the $50.00 is not too much. This would get lots of people hunting & traping them, the $1.00 add on would give the DNR over $1,000,000 to pay for them, this is 20 thousand Coyote's! And I know there would be more money in the fund than that because they sell almost that many Deer tags alone. In a couple years there numbers would be down and the fund would then have a surplus too be used in other area's. I dont see why it cant be done, a buck per tag is well worth it.


 
damn! im hoping for a 50$ per yote bounty.
seeing how ive just dropped 300 bucks in the last two weeks on 8 traps,getting them dyed,waxed,swiveled,couple books,some lures and baits.
all because i want to catch a yote and make a mountain man hat outta it.
i feel kinda stupid since i can buy one for 200.


----------



## springdale

DabblerDuck said:


> I just think that, if I had to choose my battles, I would choose a different one. Would it hurt anything? I doubt that it would. But, I am in no way qualified to say either way. It's just my opinion and I may be wrong.
> 
> By the way, where in the northwest lower do you see all of the coyotes? Where do you think that the highest population is?


I mostly hunt the Southern Grandtraverse county, Kalkaska county, Manton, Lake City areas but Grayling area is also loaded so I'm told by friends. My son and I both bow hunt a ton and I'm telling you they are running in packs. With the full moon out as soon as one would yelp it sounds like a fire alarm. I used to trap them but not enough time anymore to set enough traps to do any good.

I watched 2 the last day of ML, but couldnt get a shot. Start in the Walton Jct area and go from there.


----------



## duckhunter382

There are a lot more coyotes now than there were when I started hunting but I dont believe they are the most responsible for the state of our deer herd. We have been bombarded for a long time now with trophy hunting propaganda that convinced many to shoot off all the breeding does and save the bucks until they get big. Now think about this we have put the same pressure on does that we had on bucks in the past. How well did the bucks fare? As long as landowners get to slaughter the breeding does our deer number will be depleted. How is a bounty on coyotes going to stop us from destroying our own herd? We need to get rid of skunks hawks owls opossums and the other critters out there that eat small game, and the eggs of game birds. Maybe a bounty on skunks would be better.


----------



## springdale

Just one thing isnt gonna solve to whole problem with Deer & Small game I agree. I just believe to start with Coyotes is a good thing. In no way do I believe this is a cure all, but do think the Coyote is a problem in our area and the UP & to get more people after them isnt gonna hurt. All it will do is get more people in the woods and maybe make a little money in doing so. Sounds like fun and it wont cost the DNR a penny. Back years ago when they had a bounty they paid out 2 million in bountys and made 24 million on funds received. Sounds like my kind of deal, 30 years ago the bounty was $15 for Male's $20 for female's.


----------



## DabblerDuck

springdale said:


> I mostly hunt the Southern Grandtraverse county, Kalkaska county, Manton, Lake City areas but Grayling area is also loaded so I'm told by friends. My son and I both bow hunt a ton and I'm telling you they are running in packs. With the full moon out as soon as one would yelp it sounds like a fire alarm. I used to trap them but not enough time anymore to set enough traps to do any good.
> 
> I watched 2 the last day of ML, but couldnt get a shot. Start in the Walton Jct area and go from there.


I live in the heart of the area that you just described. I have definitly not had the same experience as you with coyotes. Yes, they are around but the area is not crawling with them. I don't know of anyone else here who is complaining about them.

In my experience, relative to other areas of Michigan, the immediate area that you are speaking of isn't the best area for deer. There is not enough agriculture. What deer are there are somewhat difficult to hunt because of the large amount of wooded area. There are fewer and they are spread out and difficult to pattern. Also, because of the woods, you don't see many when you are driving around either. There are far more deer elsewhere in the state.

Again, just my opinion.


----------



## springdale

DabblerDuck said:


> I live in the heart of the area that you just described. I have definitly not had the same experience as you with coyotes. Yes, they are around but the area is not crawling with them. I don't know of anyone else here who is complaining about them.
> 
> In my experience, relative to other areas of Michigan, the immediate area that you are speaking of isn't the best area for deer. There is not enough agriculture. What deer are there are somewhat difficult to hunt because of the large amount of wooded area. There are fewer and they are spread out and difficult to pattern. Also, because of the woods, you don't see many when you are driving around either. There are far more deer elsewhere in the state.
> 
> Again, just my opinion.


Thanks, I've lived here 40 years & do know the area.


----------



## ridgewalker

I would support anything that would cut down the number of coyotes. There are more than one pack that work the valley that our camp is in. Sometimes they work in our area and sometimes further down river but whereever they are dead fawns and young deer are left in their wake.

One early spring a few years ago, I killed a coyote that came into our yard and tried to grab a child. It took 2 hollow point slugs from my handgun but the child remained untouched. This critter had both rabies and mange. If the numbers are not controlled eventually disease will hit them and spread throughout other species.

The baiting and feeding ban has also had a measurable impact on the number of deer and part of that impact is starving deer which become easy targets for coyotes. As a former trapper, I am quite aware that the present prices for fur are useless in motivating the taking of coyotes. A first step was opening the firearm season back up for the taking of coyotes but more needs to be done. I will support whatever will get the job done.


----------



## springdale

Ok I'm done with this one. Here was my thinking:

I wanted to cut down the Coyote numbers, thought a bounty system paid for by the people would be a good start, not a big increase in the license cost so thats good. Also would give DNR some extra cash to help in other areas if needed (according to the last bounty 1979, a huge surplus in the bounty fund account) Hunters laid off hurting for cash might make a few bucks another good thing also trappers might actually make some gas money. it cant hurt to kill off some of them, heck every Coyote we get is a plus.

But after all the negative post (not everyone was against it) I now see how the DNR can never win. I got messages telling how funny it was I was even thinking about a bounty (from people who are too young to remember it) I got feedback on it would be a mad house out there! The Hogs are worse than Coyotes! (Ive yet to ever see one) There is no Coyotes where you live (That one really tore me up!) So I think I'll just set back and wait for that Miracle to happen that will save us all, bring back all the great hunting & fishing & we wont have to do anything we just sit on the sofa watch TV. Yep its a great thing let someone else do it so I dont have too!!!


----------



## DabblerDuck

I apologize if I have offended you - but you did ask what we thought. Don't worry, my opinion isn't worth much anyway.


----------



## gilgetter

What where you expecting? you think your the frist one to come up with this? we HAD bountys, they didnt work then, and so much has changed since then that I dont see how a bounty would do any thing to help

When I was a boy, all I had to do was cross a fence and I could hunt any place I wanted to. today I would need 30 permissions to cover that ground. My point is things arent like they where. IMO bountys never where a good solution

bottom line is If YOU want coyotes dead, get out and kill them.


----------



## springdale

take some med's and lay down, you'll feel better tomorrow!!!


----------



## Talntedmrgreen

I'm willing to help, day or nite. Just point me in the right direction!

I can't find a private landowner near me that will let me hunt yotes, and they are tough to say the least on state ground.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gilgetter

the clever one. nobody jumped on your band wagon, now your going to pout.enjoy yourself.


----------



## springdale

Ok GilGetter, 

No pouting here just having fun, I really thought it would be a good Idea, but maybe I'm wrong, have been before. No hard feelings keep up the chatin, and we'll be fine. Sound Good?

On the way home from work I saw 2 truck loads of hounds, so maybe their after em already.


----------



## Bearboy

When I was young there was a bounty on coyotes and fox. Twenty and fifteen for coyotes. Ten and five for fox. The price of fur went way up....no one bountied the adults and the kill was high. I got seventy five dollars for fox and got as much as sixty five for coyotes. In current dollars(as minimum wage was 1.60) That would be 368 dollars if you sold a fox. Bounty on coyotes would be 100 for females. Den digging is a lost skill..the old boys knew when the bitch was in only then did they dig. I could never find a coyote den let alone get to the next step. But back to working....We used to have a ton of small game and coyote and fox were rare as hens teeth. I kill all I can...but I would never dig pups...last year I shot five. Ever wonder why there is a season on coyotes...I do.


----------



## gilgetter

Merry christmas.


----------



## Jumpshootin'

Unless you can get it on the ballot, all this talk of a bounty on coyotes in all academic. Neither the DNR nor the NRC can do a thing about it. They don't have the authority.
There used to be a bounty on coyotes, but back in the 70's the bunny-huggers got a statewide referendum on the ballot to classify the coyote as a game animal. It passed and the coyote has since been protected by game laws and seasons.
When I was young you never saw sign of coyotes. High fur prices and bounties kept the populations down. 
I am well aware that more and more hunting and trapping pressure doesn't result in lower populations. But with no status as a game animal as in the pre-referrendum years, they can be dug or smoked out of dens. Guys used to do it all the time. The bounty never stated that it had to be an adult animal either. So digging out a bitch with a litter could net $100 or more in bounty. Between high fur prices back then and the bounty, a good adult coyote was a $100+ animal.
But again, this is meaningless talk unless you get a ballot referendum passed.


----------



## springdale

Thanks Jumpshootin, I didnt know that and I'm sure you have to get tons of signatures to get it on a ballott. After this forum I dont know if it would have a chance of passing or not.

And Bearboy; whats your take on the population in the Western UP? I have 40 acres south of Seney and I saw 2 the 12 Dec while ML. 1 nice gray & a darker one later. I tried to get a shot but they were to quick, in the thick stuff not much of a window


----------



## griffondog

Govonor Milliken signed the law ending the bounty system. The last couple years of the bounty only a thousand or so coyotes were turned in a year as fur prices were high and the state kept the pelt. I think over 2 million dollars was spent on bounties since in started in the Thirties. 

The DNR told the SMTA the game and fish fund would save about 60,ooo to 70,000 thousand dollars a year getting rid of the bounty. Plus staff time wouldn't be used up with handling dead coyotes.

There was no state ballot proposal on the bounty system. The legislator can start a bounty system again if they wish. Govonor Milliken also is the one who protected feral cats in Michigan.

Griff


----------



## just grillin

No bounty or bounty I think everyone one here given the opportunity to take a predator would. Would it be nice to get some cash for it sure. But I feel the coyote is not to be blamed for lack of deer or small game. All the farms that have been sold from the days gone by for development imo are part of the problem to many 5 and 10 acre pieces. The other parts are a 2 buck season in the rut. Chisel plowed fields the same day after harvest turns under cover and any left over food for small game plus the sprays do a extremely good job of killing weeds therfore no seeds for pheasants etc. Just my 2cents.


----------



## DFJISH

gilgetter said:


> Tell an ohio yote from a michigan yote? how about an indiana, or kentucky yote? I cant. and for 50 bucks a wack you can bet every knothead east of the mississippi will be headed to michigan. with a bag of mangy yotes.


Way back when I was a young buck in Ohio, both Ohio and Indiana had bounties on foxes. In Ohio you took just turned in the 4 chopped off fox feet to the county courthouse to collect the $5.00 bounty. In Indiana you took the whole fox in and they cut a slice down through each ear and you took the fox back home...$5.00 bounty. It was easy to double dip if you lived near the state line. And then you could still sell the hide....._for $1.50._ :lol: 
I don't see a need for a bounty incentive for coyotes. Between the trappers, snaring, running with hounds, and callers, I think they are getting plenty of pressure.


----------



## Mitchell Ulrich

The majority of you deer hunters couldn't kill a coyote even if you tried every night for a month. 

What makes you think that all of a sudden your hunting abilities are going to improve just because of a bounty!

I know I'll get ripped for saying that, but it is the truth.

Get real.


----------



## lonetracker

Mitchell Ulrich said:


> The majority of you deer hunters couldn't kill a coyote even if you tried every night for a month.
> 
> What makes you think that all of a sudden your hunting abilities are going to improve just because of a bounty!
> 
> I know I'll get ripped for saying that, but it is the truth.
> 
> Get real.


 
you have a real good point here.i startad yote hunting about 3 years ago,almost every weekend after deer season,till close of yote season.a 50.00 bounty would have so far netted me 150.00.i will minus the new e caller,rifle and scope,amo,snow camo,books and dvds.will not even bring up gas costs,am now about 1300.00 in the hole.
am i a terrible hunter?maybe.i do know i put way more effort into it then everyone i know.i have shot lots of deer with bow and gun,from a stand and while sneakin,i am at least an average deer hunter.i beleive i would have done better on yotes if i would have hunted with someone who knew what he was doing,so i was not trying to figure this all out on my own.
one thing i have learned in hunting yotes,they are a lot harder to hunt than deer.they are not out of range for most people,but in most cases it will take a substantial investment in time and money to get good at hunting them.


----------



## Mitchell Ulrich

To bad you live in the UP...I'd love to take you out and share what I've learned over the last 10 years. 

Mitch


----------



## North wind

mitchell ulrich said:


> the majority of you deer hunters couldn't kill a coyote even if you tried every night for a month.
> 
> What makes you think that all of a sudden your hunting abilities are going to improve just because of a bounty!
> 
> I know i'll get ripped for saying that, but it is the truth.
> 
> Get real.



lol...


----------



## Dave Lyons

You find me the landowners that will pay $50 bucks a coyote and give me exclusive rights to that land and I will knock them down. I am not talking 10-50 acre lots either I need complete sections. You want the fur you keep it but 50 bucks a dead coyote.


----------



## Eat More Possum

griffondog said:


> Springdale I never said I wouldn't take a 50 dollar bill. I just said what you want to do won't work. What makes you think the coyote you shot isn't a mouse eater and all your doing it opening up a spot in the food chain for a pup from a female who likes to eat Deer.
> 
> Read some of the research papers from the sight I posted to you. I would love some trapper welfare. Obama bucks for the trappers and predator callers.:lol:
> 
> Griff


Are you kidding me?! Kill a mouse eater and turn another to eating deer?! I'd be amazed to see anyone support that silly statement. Seems simple - offer money and more folks will hit the woods. I don't know how much is the magic number, but sure would make sense to try to get it on a ballot to see. How does the ball get rolling on that?


----------



## griffondog

Eat More Possum said:


> Are you kidding me?! Kill a mouse eater and turn another to eating deer?! I'd be amazed to see anyone support that silly statement. Seems simple - offer money and more folks will hit the woods. I don't know how much is the magic number, but sure would make sense to try to get it on a ballot to see. How does the ball get rolling on that?


I'll stand behind my statement. Please prove me wrong! Since 60% of the coyotes killed, are juveniles ( mouse eaters). How is that helping the deer herd? 

I would definitely like the opportunity to make another 4 to 5 grand a year killing coyotes. But it ain't going to do what you want. If you have a problem with coyotes killing deer in a yard up north then you go after that problem. Not waste 5 grand on a guy in Oakland county to kill coyotes.

The money would be better spent on winter cover and better state land habitat programs.

Here is a link for your reading enjoyment.

http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/article/CoyoteKill/

Griff


----------



## springdale

griffondog said:


> I'll stand behind my statement. Please prove me wrong! Since 60% of the coyotes killed, are juveniles ( mouse eaters). How is that helping the deer herd?
> 
> I would definitely like the opportunity to make another 4 to 5 grand a year killing coyotes. But it ain't going to do what you want. If you have a problem with coyotes killing deer in a yard up north then you go after that problem. Not waste 5 grand on a guy in Oakland county to kill coyotes.
> 
> The money would be better spent on winter cover and better state land habitat programs.
> 
> Here is a link for your reading enjoyment.
> 
> 
> http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/article/CoyoteKill/
> 
> Griff


Because (mouse eaters) grow up to be (Deer eaters)! I'm sure if the bitch brings a fawn to the den the MOUSE EATERS would turn up there nose!  Where is it wrote that this was a cure all? I said it would be a good start, not solve all our problems like winter habitat. All things cant always be fixed with the ole snap of the fingers. We have let the Habitat get out of hand along with the predators. Not only the deer but small game. To set back and hope it gets better isnt gonna help. If you read all the post I said $1.00 for the bounty & $1.00 for habitat. Maybe .50 cents each is the number I dont know for sure, but same ole same ole wont solve anything.

You say you'll take the 5 grand, THATS 100 COYOTES! YOU DA MAN!!!


----------



## Mitchell Ulrich

So......what I'm hearing is that all of you Deer hunters out there will have no problem when me, all my buddies and the Army of the Clueless (who shouldn't be in possession of a firearm in the first place) are out there bounty hunting during Deer season? 

OR

I killed my buck...now what am I going to do all day while you guys are out Deer hunting!...Hey, I know what I can do...I'll hunt over the gut pile, since it's the peak of the rutt the deer are going to be moving and the coyotes should be right behind them! 

OR 

Gunshot in the dark. 

Hey!!! Someone just poached a Deer!!! I'll bet he killed the buck that I was after! Call the DNR!!!..Call the RAP line!!! I'll going in looking for him! (that actually happens a lot!)

My advice is this.."Be very careful about what you want, because you might just get it!"

Mitch


----------



## Eat More Possum

Your first point makes it clear you don't believe in the Hunter's Safety course that the MI DNR requires of all beginning hunters. I agree that there are too many irresponsible folks roaming the woods during the firearm deer season, but I rely on the CO's to weed those guys out. I don't want to be penalized because of them.

The other points you make could be an issue if the proper restrictions are not in place IF this plan made it that far. What I mean by that is we have all seen additional restrictions imposed during the firearm deer season to everything from predator to small game hunting. This would be no different, I'm sure. I tend to deer hunt during firearm deer season and enjoy the various other hunts at other times to avoid the onslaught of "weekend warriors" (or better put Army of the Clueless, which I hope you don't mind if I use in the future).

Griffondog, I didn't agree with your comments, but thanks for the link. That was an interesting read. I agree with Springdale...if you can make that much $ on 'yotes in Oakland Co, you are da man!!!

I always thought that we as hunters, trappers, and general outdoors people were on the same team. Reading through this thread makes me fear that my friends and I who consider ourselves conservationists may be on a different team.


----------



## griffondog

springdale said:


> I have a thought about our Coyote problem in Northern Michigan and the UP, as you know they take a huge % of the fawns along with small game. I purpose we add a $1.00 fee on all hunting license's for predator control. Then put a $50.00 bounty on Coyotes to be paid for with the extra $1.00 fund. This would help the Coyote over population along with helping the economy with extra hunters. I don't know how many license's are sold every year but it must be well over 1,000,000. That would be a lot of Coyotes, plus the State could sell them back to the fur dealers. What do you guy's think?


This was the original post on why we need a coyote bounty for all of Michigan. I've tried to post facts during this entire thread and try to make you think about your bounty proposal. If coyote depredation is a problem in deer yards in northern Michigan why waste money on a bounty for coyotes in Oakland County. Why not hire some competent people who know what there doing to go into the yard areas and kill the coyotes that are causing the problems.

If coyotes are killing a large number of fawns in Clare county in the spring, work on them in Clare county in June. Not Jackson County in January. The Kill em all method hasn't worked in 50 years and we got to use poison, Dig them out of dens and gas them back then and they still expanded across the whole county.

I like killing coyotes and I'm never going to turn down a buck. So bring it on. 

Eat More Possum 

I take offence to the fact that you think I'm on the other team just because I dont agree having a bounty for the entire state is the way to go. I quite following the pied piper many years ago and like thinking for myself. I also think I've helped quite a few people on here learn how to kill coyotes. 

Griff


----------



## North wind

You forgot aerial gunning


----------



## griffondog

North wind said:


> You forgot aerial gunning&#8230;


Those were the days.:lol:

I got to watch some ADC guys shooting coyotes from a plane in Nevada a couple years ago. Looks like way to much fun.

Griff


----------



## springdale

griffondog said:


> This was the original post on why we need a coyote bounty for all of Michigan. I've tried to post facts during this entire thread and try to make you think about your bounty proposal. If coyote depredation is a problem in deer yards in northern Michigan why waste money on a bounty for coyotes in Oakland County. Why not hire some competent people who know what there doing to go into the yard areas and kill the coyotes that are causing the problems.
> 
> If coyotes are killing a large number of fawns in Clare county in the spring, work on them in Clare county in June. Not Jackson County in January. The Kill em all method hasn't worked in 50 years and we got to use poison, Dig them out of dens and gas them back then and they still expanded across the whole county.
> 
> I like killing coyotes and I'm never going to turn down a buck. So bring it on.
> 
> Eat More Possum
> 
> I take offence to the fact that you think I'm on the other team just because I dont agree having a bounty for the entire state is the way to go. I quite following the pied piper many years ago and like thinking for myself. I also think I've helped quite a few people on here learn how to kill coyotes.
> 
> Griff


Ok Griff, who's gonna be the guy to dispatch the Coyote swat team? Whos going to monitor the deer yards in winter and new fawns in the spring to know when to send in the troops? Sometime I wonder where you get these ideas. I believe you dont want this bounty system because you are afraid it will work and theres goes your Coyote trapping and hunting, dont fear it Griff we cant get them all. You say it never worked, thats not so true either, if you read the DNR's own summary when they reinstated it back in the 1935 it was because they were expanding too fast, then 1979 they stopped it (per the DNR, the bounty was ineffective way of controlling Coyotes) but did it 44 years anyway. Funny thing is that they forgot to lower the license fees, but kept the money being collected for the bounty, makes me think maybe they also had an alternative motive (the almighty Dollar). I do know in 1979 when the bounty was stopped we didnt have near the Coyotes we have today and lots more Deer and Small game. I know I know its not all do to the Coyotes but they do their part. It almost sounds like a bounty on Deer hunters would be more to your likeing, it would save allot of deer! lol:lol:
[/COLOR] 
Oh well, lets go ice fishing, looks like the lakes are hard!


----------



## griffondog

Springdale I would guess a Michigan program would be modeled on the USDA predator control program. If your regional biologist has no idea of what type of predator problems are going on in his district he should be looking for a new job.

Since hunters and trappers already take about 20,000 coyotes a year in this state your bounty would cost the state only a million bucks a year before you even kill a extra coyote. Seems kinda like a waste of money to me. Take the Million bucks and kill some extra coyotes on top of what are already killed.

As I already said the money would be better spent on state land habitat programs. I would rather go kill some coyotes so I'm going to skip the fishing offer. Good luck.

Griff


----------



## springdale

griffondog said:


> Springdale I would guess a Michigan program would be modeled on the USDA predator control program. If your regional biologist has no idea of what type of predator problems are going on in his district he should be looking for a new job.
> 
> Since hunters and trappers already take about 20,000 coyotes a year in this state your bounty would cost the state only a million bucks a year before you even kill a extra coyote. Seems kinda like a waste of money to me. Take the Million bucks and kill some extra coyotes on top of what are already killed.
> 
> As I already said the money would be better spent on state land habitat programs. I would rather go kill some coyotes so I'm going to skip the fishing offer. Good luck.
> 
> 
> 
> Griff


 
Griff,

If those numbers are correct (I assume they are) thats a ton! Back in the bounty days they averaged 3300 a year. Now thats really show's the problem in the numbers we have. I do agree with you Griff on the habitat and I know we are on the same page when it comes to the hunting ,trapping and all. This has been a good tread, with lots of ideas.

On another note: We got the Yellow Lab a squeek toy for Xmas & she tore it up it little over a day ofcourse, But I took the squeeker and man does it sound good as a rabbit squealer! You can make all types of distress calls. Have you or anyone else got any homemade calls like this. I thought it would be cool to here some of the differenent stuff and how it works.

Thanks

Springfield Taxidermy
(springdale ?)
Spelled my own name wrong when I set up the user name! Now thats a ******* moment!


----------



## griffondog

Springfield Taxidermy

All them squeaky toys work as a coaxer. I just use the kiss of death.

Lee Smith of yeller dog calls makes some nice local calls you may want to give him a call. http://www.yellerdogcalls.com/

Back in the late 70's early 80's our Marshall fur sale started getting coyotes from Hillsdale,Branch, Calhoun and St Joseph counties. So I would think this would indicate that our Southern Michigan coyotes migrated north not south from the Zone two areas.

Griff


----------



## Eat More Possum

Griff,

You just can't help arguing! I'll check out the yeller dog calls. Thanks. Hope you guys have a Happy New Year!


----------



## griffondog

Eat More Possum said:


> Griff,
> 
> You just can't help arguing! I'll check out the yeller dog calls. Thanks. Hope you guys have a Happy New Year!


I always thought I was a warm and fuzzy guy.:idea:

Lee Smith owner of Yeller Dog Calls is a first class guy. He just put on a calling demo for some DNR biologists at the RAM center. They were all interested in how to kill more coyotes in their Districts. I think this was the first time a calling demo has ever been put on for the DNR.

Griff


----------



## TSS Caddis

griffondog said:


> and the state kept the pelt.


Didn't they just do something to the ear and sent it home with you? I remember having dead yotes in the garage as a kid that my Dad was able to turn in for the bounty and was able to bring back home.


----------



## griffondog

TSS Caddis said:


> Didn't they just do something to the ear and sent it home with you? I remember having dead yotes in the garage as a kid that my Dad was able to turn in for the bounty and was able to bring back home.


It was about 1976 or so the Dnr stated keeping the pelts. The bounty system was over a couple years after that. 

Griff


----------



## TSS Caddis

griffondog said:


> It was about 1976 or so the Dnr stated keeping the pelts. The bounty system was over a couple years after that.
> 
> Griff


My guess is this was probably just before that then. I just remembered that they did something to the ear to keep you from trying to claim the bounty again and sent you on your way with it.


----------



## springdale

Well sort of! Hey all you Predator hunters, watch the Discovering show this week, at the end they have some great competitions coming up with big money prizes.

http://www.uppermichiganssource.com/on_wluc/content.aspx?id=110744


----------



## bodnar342

4-19-12
Hello all - I'm writing from a bit outside the Ann Arbor area doing some functional research on coyotes. Came across this site and your coyote problem forum. A lot of experience and common sense here which has already helped and is appreciated. Any comments and suggestions are appeciated. In regard to the UP area - in a nutshell, just what are your problems with coyotes? Until the state removed the coyote bounty, down here on our then active farm area in NE Washtenaw County we didn't perceive any coyote problem, we didn't have many deer, but we did have a lot of 'wild' dogs generally running in 'packs' of half a dozen or so. Then, a couple years after the bounty was lifted and farming startaed dropping off while new subs came in, we started having more deer and began seeing coyotes - and deer/car accidents became an issue. We also noticed that when the coyotes came in the feral dog packs disappeared and then the household pet dogs & cats also began disappearing. Some sheep & goats likewise - but minimal. Now we have a developing coyote problem with the main concern currently being that they are routinely coming more and more into town and posing a potential threat to our children and pets. We have what we refer to as the 'Northern' (young German Shepherd appearance) coyote as opposed to the 'Western' (grey) breed. I'm assumng you have the same in the UP. Ours seem to run in 'packs' of generally 4 to 6. I'm seeking current info on (primarily but not limited to) UP average pack sizes and what threats anyone out there perceives they have or will potentially pose to humans and under what circumstances. Dates and locations and seasonal info would be appreciated with any comments. sIf for any reason someone feels dtheir comments should not be on a public post they can be sent to [email protected]. Thank you for any assistance.


----------



## griffondog

Southern Michigan Coyotes migrated into the state in the early 70's through Indiana and Ohio not from Northern Michigan to the Southern Zone 3 area.

Griff


----------



## Diggdug

I strongly believe that in my lifetime I will see one of the following:

A bounty on several furbearers.
Many more full time Government trappers.
A huge boom in privatized ADC businesses.
Widespread dieseses.

All due to the unfortunate decline in the raw fur markets, because of the sentiment of the uneducated, and the ignorance of those posting video's on Youtube!


----------

