# Parking on the "Shoulder" Laws



## PlebFisherGUY (Mar 5, 2019)

Hi all,

I've recently been finding myself doing a lot of fishing in areas where i'd access a stream/river to wade via an overpass that generally has a designated parking area close by which is perfect.

Recently however I've been wanting to explore more areas that do not have designated parking, but my have a shoulder to potentially park on, however, I'm not sure about the legalities of parking on a shoulder and can't seem to find anything in Michigan law stating anything about shoulders (with the exception of highway shoulders).

My question is, if I want to park on a shoulder like the one listed in this picture, assuming the land I
will be parking on is private, how much clearance (if any) do I have to park there? Am I allowed to park on the shoulder if there is gravel, or does that have no regard to the boundaries?

Also, if the paved part of the shoulder is big enough, am I allowed to park on that as long as i'm not impeding the road itself?

Thanks in advance!


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## Botiz (Oct 21, 2010)

Welcome to the convoluted world of Michigan riparian laws. 

The short answer is, there is no answer to your question. But prepare for everyone to give you their opinion on it. 

The longer answer is as you go, you’ll develop a feel for where parking on the shoulder is fine and where it’s not. You’ll have days where you get yelled at, you’ll have days where you won’t have any trouble at all, you’ll have days where you won’t be the first truck there. They’ll be no rhyme or reason but over time you’ll develop a six sense for it. It’s all part of the fun. 

Part of me wishes there was a better answer. Part of me realizes it helps keep the riff raff out of the game.


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## mjh4 (Feb 2, 2018)

It's a weird deal, just like Botiz said no one really knows. I just learned to park off the shoulder and go for it I found some good fishing spots that way. What pisses me off when some yahoo tells you that you can't park there and they have no clue and don't even own the property they just think they have the right to tell you that you can't fish. Usually only once in a while someone might say something but for the most part you should be fine. Personally I would park off the shoulder and give it a try. If your don't want to do that just call or email the DNR and tell them the bridge location and see what they say. Good luck fishing


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


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## PlebFisherGUY (Mar 5, 2019)

mjh4 said:


> It's a weird deal, just like Botiz said no one really knows. I just learned to park off the shoulder and go for it I found some good fishing spots that way. What pisses me off when some yahoo tells you that you can't park there and they have no clue and don't even own the property they just think they have the right to tell you that you can't fish. Usually only once in a while someone might say something but for the most part you should be fine. Personally I would park off the shoulder and give it a try. If your don't want to do that just call or email the DNR and tell them the bridge location and see what they say. Good luck fishing
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


Figured that was the case, I actually did call them a few days ago on it, and they said that there is nothing that can do if there is not a barrier/posted sign alerting otherwise. Most places I doubt i'd get any trouble, but I still feel a bit scummy doing it for whatever reason as I respect private property rights...oh well, guess I'll try my luck. Thanks for the advice gentlemen!


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## FishTales (Feb 13, 2002)

If I remember correctly you are allowed to park on a shoulder unless it is posted no parking , a good example is through St John Marsh area, where it is posted with no parking signs. I'm not sure about the freeways.


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## Multibeard2 (Oct 15, 2020)

I parked a long ways above the single no parking sign on the north bound road by the Lower Branch Bridge. The land owner came out and give me H about parking there. He said that that single sign went to the top of the hill. I told him to stuff it and went to see if I could put my canoe in the PM on the oter sdie of the road

A week or so later a fireman friend from Muskegon pulled into the drive way to the gate across from the jerk. The guy came out and harrassed him too. he got told off again as the property belonged to another fireman from Muskegon. He had perission to park there.

I was picking up my goose hunting gear parked the wrong way on a gravel road to no where one time. I looked up and saw a MSP cruiser heaed my way. I intentionally racked my pump gun numerous times so the trooper would know it was unloaded before casing it. When I could see who the tropper was I knew her reputation. She started chewing me out about parking the wrong way. I continued to load my decoys and got in my car. She was not pleased.


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## MSUFW07 (Jan 22, 2009)

I parked our car on the shoulder of S. Lakeshore Drive in Ludington 10 years or so ago so that we could go see some friends who were hanging out on the beach. We were parked there with probably a dozen other cars and I don't think there was no parking signs but it was a long time ago. We were pulled over as far as I dared to not get my car stuck, but I will admit I was not entirely off the road. 

None the less, we came back to a ticket from MSP, it was for impeding traffic if I remember correctly. I saw that we were not the only ones with tickets on our car. Ruined a fun 30 mins at the beach. My guess is that it is issue enough that either MSP runs a regular patrol up there to catch people or the folks that have the houses on that part of the peninsula get tired enough of the traffic that they called it in. I don't blame them either way but I sure was mad at the time.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

Parking opposite traffic flow is a misdemeanor.
The judge explained to me that I was choosing to drive the wrong direction in that lane in order to park.
Pay at the window, please.


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## Lumberman (Sep 27, 2010)

I would park there, as long as I am off the road, no problem at all. 

They should publish Botiz post in the rule book. That seems to be about as clear as it gets....


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

When a road is placed, there is a right of way clearly spelled out to all the property owners on either side of the centerline of the road.

I’m pretty sure, unless marked no parking, as long as you are not a traffic hazard, the public is allowed to park on the side of the road. I think the white painted line on a paved road, is the edge that the parking vehicle cannot pass toward the center line, and I think the edge of the easement away from center is probably the legal line for how far away from the centerline of the road a person could park.
so, a 66 foot wide road has 33 feet on either side of center and 33 feet minus from centerline to the edge of the white line, leaves how much space off the road remains to park on.

I say that because if the county was coming by to cut the roadside grass back, or a tree trimming contractor was cutting back trees along the road, they would certainly use those numbers to explain to the homeowner why they were there and why they could do what they were doing.
Since both of those tasks occur commonly, and I never hear any grand uproar about it, there must be a legal basis for it that has been tested.


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## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

There are a couple of posts here that I think are correct, or at least a combination of a couple of posts.

For beginners, if there aren't any no parking signs, you may park on the shoulder as long as you stay within the right of way. Typically that right of way is 33' for the center line of the road on both sides. For example, if a road is running east and west, the right of way will extend 33' from the center line of the road on both the North and South sides. Now it needs to be understood that not all rights of ways are 66' feet, some are more; for example I can show you one bridge near my home that is 100' due to fact the extra footage is needed due to slope and grade. 

As to the scenario of the property owner saying the sign meant to the top of the hill, I call BS on the property owner on that one, if it were to be the top of the hill, the county would have put more signs up. 

One thing of note as a go along, you may enter the stream/river via the right of way, but remember you may not pick berries, nuts, or mushrooms or anything of the like as those are considered the property of the property owner. Just thought I'd throw that in.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

On one of my properties, I had created a small flow control device. Leaving a pool of water behind it, which allowed carp in the spring to wallow. Some bow fisherman found it, and proceeded to kill all the carp, Which I did not mind, except, they didn’t take the dead fish with them. So, now there’s no more Bow fishing in front of that property.

It was on my mind in this thread, because like posted previously, the easement on that section of road actually uses the section line on the south edge of the road, and then the furthest southerly point of the easement for the county drain for maintenance access, which is all together is probably 60 or 70 feet away fromThe edge of the road.But no one actually parks on that side of the drain it would be too big of a hassle to get there.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Gamekeeper said:


> When a road is placed, there is a right of way clearly spelled out to all the property owners on either side of the centerline of the road.
> 
> I’m pretty sure, unless marked no parking, as long as you are not a traffic hazard, the public is allowed to park on the side of the road. I think the white painted line on a paved road, is the edge that the parking vehicle cannot pass toward the center line, and I think the edge of the easement away from center is probably the legal line for how far away from the centerline of the road a person could park.
> so, a 66 foot wide road has 33 feet on either side of center and 33 feet minus from centerline to the edge of the white line, leaves how much space off the road remains to park on.
> ...


The 66' is an easement, some roads are 100' or more.


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

FREEPOP said:


> The 66' is an easement, some roads are 100' or more.


Sure.
I never got the impression the OP was planning to park along a state highway.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Gamekeeper said:


> Sure.
> I never got the impression the OP was planning to park along a state highway.


Doesn't have to be a state highway. Easement designations are most often determined by traffic. I talked with the Road Commissioner about the easement before planting trees in my front yard as it could be a problem if vision were obstructed and you were still outside the easement. He named off some roads about the easement distances and I was surprised that some of the roads he named at 100'


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## Gamekeeper (Oct 9, 2015)

FREEPOP said:


> Doesn't have to be a state highway. Easement designations are most often determined by traffic. I talked with the Road Commissioner about the easement before planting trees in my front yard as it could be a problem if vision were obstructed and you were still outside the easement. He named off some roads about the easement distances and I was surprised that some of the roads he named at 100'


Yes, power lines waterlines fiber optic cables sewer lines they’ll take all the depth they can get. It’s a bit of a surprise to come home from work one day, and there’s an excavator dump trucks and backhoes in your front yard tearing out the trees that you’ve been nurturing for 25 years. So that they can put in a 3/8 inch diameter fiber optic cable. And then they waive the whole read your easement thing at you.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Gamekeeper said:


> Yes, power lines waterlines fiber optic cables sewer lines they’ll take all the depth they can get. It’s a bit of a surprise to come home from work one day, and there’s an excavator dump trucks and backhoes in your front yard tearing out the trees that you’ve been nurturing for 25 years. So that they can put in a 3/8 inch diameter fiber optic cable. And then they waive the whole read your easement thing at you.


It's going to happen to me soon, Consumers has been surveying. I believe they're going to upgrade the natural gas lines or something. I put my trees in an extra 10' back, just in case.


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

A highway right-of-way is generally considered to be available only for highway-use related purposes. DOT regulations define any intrusion or use of a highway right-of-way for purposes other than traveling as an “encroachment” //www.cga.ct.gov/2004/rpt/2004-R-0792.htm


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

I have parked on the side of the road for years, all over, not just in Michigan. As long as there isn't a sign and it seems safe for me to do so. 

People do it all the time around my place too. I can't imagine being a miserable enough prick to let it bother me, but I am sure there are a few out there. They can stick it. 

I would do like another poster did and just ignore them and move on, or call the cops and let them tell me what to do. Some dirtball yelling across a ditch isn't going to.


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

This looks like a good read. Should keep you on the edge of your seat.

*MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT) 
Act 300 of 1949 
STOPPING, STANDING AND PARKING*

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(bo...300-1949-VI-STOPPING-STANDING-AND-PARKING.pdf


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

jiggin is livin said:


> I have parked on the side of the road for years, all over, not just in Michigan. As long as there isn't a sign and it seems safe for me to do so.
> 
> People do it all the time around my place too. I can't imagine being a miserable enough prick to let it bother me, but I am sure there are a few out there. They can stick it.
> 
> I would do like another poster did and just ignore them and move on, or call the cops and let them tell me what to do. Some dirtball yelling across a ditch isn't going to.


I have a creek through my property and a bridge in front of my house i have no issue with them parking just a couple times when their kids were allowed to go nuts and destroy landscaping


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

Gamekeeper said:


> so, a 66 foot wide road has 33 feet on either side of center and 33 feet minus from centerline to the edge of the white line, leaves how much space off the road remains to park on.


The only issue is that without looking at a Plat map - there is no guarantee that a roadway is centered in the easement.

The road I live on is not. The easement is only about 5' from the road edge on my side, but about 15' into the yard of folks across the street.


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

A plat map does not show you that! Even the equalization maps that show who owns proerties are not that acurate with the lines to tell where the road right away is. 

The only way to tell is by the survey stakes are in relation to the road surface.


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

A plat map does not tell you that! Even the Equaization Departments maps that show land owner information are not that accurate.

The only way to know for sure is by the actuall survey. The survey stakes show the road right away as they are set 33 feet from where center of where the right away actually is.


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## fishinfever (Feb 14, 2005)

Petronius said:


> This looks like a good read. Should keep you on the edge of your seat.
> 
> *MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT)
> Act 300 of 1949
> ...


WOW, thanks Petronius.

Well, I read it twice and this is what I got (relative to the OP) from it.

Except for emergency situations, parking on the travelled portion or right of way along a Limited Access Highway is prohibited.

Parking along all other highways (outside of travelled portion) is allowed unless officially prohibited and/or due to proximity to any logical and reasonable area (emergency related driveways, intersections) that needs to be kept clear.

I am NOT an attorney and would love to hear other opinions about this document.

Good luck, FF


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

fishinfever said:


> WOW, thanks Petronius.
> 
> Well, I read it twice and this is what I got (relative to the OP) from it.
> 
> ...


Yes, basically, that is the law. Many of the main roads/highways in populated areas/cities like in the Detroit area can prohibit parking on the side of the road without signs because there is no area outside of traveled portions, no road side shoulder to park on.


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## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

That's pretty much how I understand it too, and it makes sense franklly. Out in the country as long as you are off the road but within the right of way you're good to go, unless signs say otherwise.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

PlebFisherGUY said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've recently been finding myself doing a lot of fishing in areas where i'd access a stream/river to wade via an overpass that generally has a designated parking area close by which is perfect.
> 
> ...


The Michigan Supreme Court ruled that a Public Right of Way is NOT a Public Access. Access via a Right of Way is not legal means of accessing a waterway.
Pleasant Lake Hills. Corporation v. Eppinger is where that can be found.


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## Ronnie D (Dec 8, 2020)

Had the same issue near Pt. Mouille a few years back and when we called the sherrif we were told it was not legal and would result in a 5 dollar fine. Needless to say I still park there ,now only if there was a valet to carry my gear.


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## Bucket-Back (Feb 8, 2004)

FishTales said:


> If I remember correctly you are allowed to park on a shoulder unless it is posted no parking , a good example is through St John Marsh area, where it is posted with no parking signs. I'm not sure about the freeways.


There used to be a lot of fishermen and women from Detroit that would park and fish along the marsh.

40 some years ago as a kid, we would drive on the non paved shoulder and "dust" them


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## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

Mettle you really need to stop with half truths. Your example, again, is based on a lake that has been deemed Non-navigable therefore does not apply to this situation. I suggest if you really want to know the truth, just find the best water rights attorney and ask. I could give a couple of names but don't think I should. You can google it if you want, if asked them and they both stated it is perfectly legal to access water from a road right of way, as for parking if it isn't marked "no parking" go for it, just remember to stay off the road. If you can't do that I would suggest that you find somewhere else to park.


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## pescadero (Mar 31, 2006)

multibeard said:


> A plat map does not show you that! Even the equalization maps that show who owns proerties are not that acurate with the lines to tell where the road right away is.


They are in the Washtenaw County eGIS system.

I can even get 1 foot contour maps of my property.


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

I have to agree with you that the gis from my equalization dept show the easment where it actually is. That was why the crew surveying the 40 north of mine,over 40 years ago, said I owned more land on the south line than I thought I did. They had to do the south corners of my property to get the survey right. When I posted I was thinking of a plat book which does not show that.

A few years ago the property to the east of mine was surveyed using gps. They told the owner that things were not comming out right. He put a stake 4 foot 7 inches into my property from the survey from long ago.


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## Lucky Dog (Jul 4, 2004)

Ronnie D said:


> Had the same issue near Pt. Mouille a few years back and when we called the sherrif we were told it was not legal and would result in a 5 dollar fine. Needless to say I still park there ,now only if there was a valet to carry my gear.


Do you just leave a fiver on the windshield?


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## Thirty pointer (Jan 1, 2015)

Dead end county road close to my house I ice fish ...have for 30 years ...one year a couple folks on the lake objected to people using it to gain access to the lake and took it to court .The county can condem the access to the lake if it poses a danger but chose not to in this case .They just had no parking signs put up for a short ways to keep cars away from the road that turned off from the county road on the end .


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

All roads that dead end into Silver Lake in Oceana county are legal accesses to the lake. A road that was platted but not devoped went into the lake. A neighbor to the road had a sea wall built across the ROAD. He then sent a bil to the township wanting them to pay for that part. The township told him to have that portion removed as did not have perission to build the seawall across the road.


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## 22 Chuck (Feb 2, 2006)

pescadero said:


> The only issue is that without looking at a Plat map - there is no guarantee that a roadway is centered in the easement.
> 
> The road I live on is not. The easement is only about 5' from the road edge on my side, but about 15' into the yard of folks across the street.


Next block down from me the road is 'off center'. Lakefronters MANY yrs ago high fenced their side. Fence is outside the centerline of the platted road. They get lots of free land and gy across the street has plowed snow piled on his yard and vehicles nearly on his property.

Not too long ago they went to court. Fenced inners lost but fence remains. We are wondering about $$ changing hands somewhere.


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