# State Land



## hfitch (Apr 14, 2011)

we plan on taking our Ranger 400 (the small one) up to Atlanta in a couple weeks. I know we're good to ride on some trails, roads (no state or federal) but my question is, what about logging trails off of roads? We go up for gun season and would like to do some preseason scouting but from what I can see, it's illegal to drive back into hunting spots on trails that are used by vehicles with an ATV or UTV?? We're not looking to go ripping thru the forest or anything, just driving in like we would normally do with our vehicle. Maybe someone here can shed a little light on this for me. I've read all the ordinances and what not and thought I'd ask here before I call the DNR. I've seen tracks and trails thru the woods but I'd rather not assume I can. I'd be the one to get stopped and ticketed!!

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## MUDDY4LIFE (Apr 13, 2001)

NO, you will get a citation for operating on logging roads that are not part of the designated ORV trail system or PA 240.


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## phittie (Aug 3, 2011)

You are going to be limited to the marked ORV Routes and Trails in the area, plus county roads. But you are not allowed to use an ATV on the forest roads that criss cross the state forest IP there. I am a Jeep guy not an ATV guy, so I don't know specifically which county roads are permissible - VV Mapping has some great software as well as up to date information on county roads that are open, I would start there.

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## hitechman (Feb 25, 2002)

Nope! *No ORV's on state land roads/trails unless specificaly signed as OPEN TO ORV TRAFFIC.*

A better place to find the current county, township, and city ORV road ordinances is here: http://orvmichiganroads.com/

Steve


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## hfitch (Apr 14, 2011)

thanks guys! That's pretty much what I thought but wanted some confirmation. I'll be checking out that website, Steve, thank you.

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## James Dymond (Feb 23, 2002)

hitechman said:


> Nope! *No ORV's on state land roads/trails unless specificaly signed as OPEN TO ORV TRAFFIC.*
> 
> A better place to find the current county, township, and city ORV road ordinances is here: http://orvmichiganroads.com/
> 
> Steve


What is the thinking for this, legal on roads where more and faster cars are present but now legal on two tracks. 
Jim


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## hitechman (Feb 25, 2002)

James Dymond said:


> What is the thinking for this, legal on roads where more and faster cars are present but now legal on two tracks.
> Jim


The FEDS and State DNR have had problems with ATV's NOT following the law and ripping the HE!! out of the forest dirt roads/2-tracks, and thus increasing erosion. These few "special" ATVers also tend to get off the trails and into the woods/hills and rip it up as well............thus, illegal for everyone (unless you have a handicap permit). All has to do with damage and not safety.

Another case of the "special few" ruining it for the rest of us.

Steve


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## hfitch (Apr 14, 2011)

that's exactly right!!! One side of me says "hey, why not, vehicles can drive back there" and the other side says "one rotten apple spoils the bunch" and I can see their reasoning for it : ( Too bad, ya know how much fun that would be exploring every where?!!!!

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## James Dymond (Feb 23, 2002)

And the UP is different, how come? How many trails are posted closed up there?
Jim


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## hitechman (Feb 25, 2002)

James Dymond said:


> And the UP is different, how come? How many trails are posted closed up there?
> Jim


Not really any different. Many of the "2-track/narrow dirt roads, are county roads, and open by ordinance. 

I believe that many of the trails open to ORV's in the UP are snowmobile trails in the winter (and closed to ORV traffic in the winter)--don't know this for sure........but many of them are designated ORV routes.

I'm sure there are some posted as closed to ORV traffic, but the law reads that all state and federal land trails/roads/2-tracks that are not county roads are automatically closed, UNLESS posted as open.

Steve


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## hitechman (Feb 25, 2002)

I might also add that most (if not all) snowmobile trails in the LP are closed to ORV traffic for the same reason........errosion and tearing up the route.

The reasoning behind this is that the snowmobiles "tear up the snow" and do not affect the actual ground beneath the snow.

Steve


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

Get yourself a street legal enduro and get it plated. Then you can ride any two track that is open to vehicle traffic.


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## hitechman (Feb 25, 2002)

Steve said:


> Get yourself a street legal enduro and get it plated. Then you can ride any two track that is open to vehicle traffic.


Ya, but not on any designated trails--too wide.

Steve


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

hitechman said:


> Ya, but not on any designated trails--too wide.
> 
> Steve


Yeah but at least you are legal on all open two tracks and regular roads should your travel take you there.


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## TVCJohn (Nov 30, 2005)

I've been working on this exact same subject today with the local DNR office and road commission folks. I'm trying to legally get back to a remote stream for fishing and panning. Take this for what it's worth. 

1. You need to know what the local county road commission ORV ordinances are. The state has given the road commissioners the authority to make rules for their county maintained roads and "local roads" and "seasonal roads". You can Google up MCL 247.655 (and .655a), Section 5 to read the definitions.

2. You need to know what the County definition of an ORV is and isn't. Grand Traverse County's definition is below. It may mirror other counties. 



> &#8220;ORV&#8221; means a motor driven off road recreation vehicle capable of crosscountry travel without benefit of a road or trail, on or immediately over land, snow, ice, marsh, swampland, or other natural terrain. ORV or vehicle includes, but is not limited to, a multitrack or multiwheel drive vehicle, an ATV, a motorcycle or related 2-wheel, 3-wheel, or 4-wheel vehicle, an amphibious machine, a ground effect air cushion vehicle, or other means of transportation deriving motive power from a source other than muscle or wind. ORV or vehicle does not include a registered snowmobile, a farm vehicle being used for farming, a vehicle used for military, fire,
> emergency, or law enforcement purposes, a vehicle owned and operated by a utility company or an oil or gas company when performing maintenance on its facilities or on property over which it has an easement, a construction or logging vehicle used in performance of its common function, or a registered aircraft.




3. If the county road commission does not claim jurisdiction over the road, two-track, trail or seasonal road, you then go to the DNR for guidance.

4. There are trails you can legally drive on in a street legal (and tagged) vehicle that do not say open to motorized vehicles. ORV's (ATV's/Quad's) can't be driven on them unless specifically designated. The trail I'm looking at is a snowmobile trail and I can drive my truck/car on it but not my ATV. I'm researching this some more to see how to get this changed.

5. Normally, you can drive your legally tagged and insured street legal vehicle on these trails and you DO NOT need an ORV sticker. I say normally because there are some remote areas/trails that do require street legal and tagged vehicles to have an ORV sticker. Ask the local DNR office where these areas/trails are in the place you're going to. I was told of one in my area. 

6. Our local DNR office has some simple maps showing our local paths, trails and roads. The bottom says they're from the "DNR FMFM Division". You maybe able to find them online?

7. The DNR will not get involved in defining county road commission policy/rules.


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## hitechman (Feb 25, 2002)

TVCJohn said:


> ....................2. You need to know what the County definition of an ORV is and isn't. Grand Traverse County's definition is below. It may mirror other counties....................


If a county adopts an ORV ordinance they MUST use the states definition of an ORV.

Currently Lake Isabella (in Isabella County which has an ORV Ordinance) wants to allow golf carts (which the state considers an ORV if on the road), but no others, and the state will not allow it--------basically the state says if you want to allow one type of ORV then you have to allow them all.

All counties, townships, and cities that pass an ordinance must follow the MCL laws.
There are some things that are allowed to be limited (age, but not below the minimum--speed, but not above the maximum--etc)

Steve


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## TVCJohn (Nov 30, 2005)

Townships and counties can impose some funny ordinances on ORV's.

Here's a few more of GTC's ordinances.




> Section 3. A township board of a township in the County may adopt an ordinance to close any





> roads within the boundaries of the township to the operation of ORVs permitted by the County. Beginning July 17, 2009, the township board of a township in the County may adopt an ordinance authorizing the operation of ORVs on the maintained portion of 1 or more roads located within the township, pursuant to MCL 324.81131(3).
> 
> Section 4. The County Road Commission may close no more than 30% of the total linear miles of roads in the County to protect the environment or if the operation of ORVs pose a particular and demonstrable threat to public safety. The road commission may not close a municipal street
> to ORVs opened under MCL 324.81131 subsection 5.
> ...


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## hitechman (Feb 25, 2002)

TVCJohn said:


> Townships and counties can impose some funny ordinances on ORV's.
> 
> Here's a few more of GTC's ordinances.


Pretty standard stuff and all MCL state law. Most of them are identical in every respect, but a few are more restrictive about the minimums and maximums stated in MCL (Michigan Compiled Laws)

Our city ordinance (St. Louis) is direct quote from MCL law except we have hours of operation (6am-10pm), a minimum age of 14, lights must be on at ALL times, and person must have a drivers license/state ID on their person, if 18 or older.

MCL also allows townships/cities to opt out of county ordinances, or to have ordinances of their own if the county does not.

Check out all the current county ordinances here: http://orvmichiganroads.com/

Steve


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## poz (Nov 12, 2004)

They make street legal kits for rangers and other UTVs. Then you can ride anywhere a car can


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## hitechman (Feb 25, 2002)

poz said:


> They make street legal kits for rangers and other UTVs. Then you can ride anywhere a car can


Yup, and some come from the factory ready to be licensed for the road. UTV conversion kits start at about $250. You still must have it inspected, licensed for the road, and insured just like a car.

Now for ATV's that's next to impossible............state will not allow them to pass inspection no matter what you add to them (has to do with the suspension and axles and must be side by side)....if you do correct the suspension and axles, and every thing else to make them SL, you'd have more in it than if you bought a UTV.

Steve


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## Jim58 (Jan 16, 2010)

hitechman said:


> Yup, and some come from the factory ready to be licensed for the road. UTV conversion kits start at about $250. You still must have it inspected, licensed for the road, and insured just like a car.
> 
> Now for ATV's that's next to impossible............state will not allow them to pass inspection no matter what you add to them (has to do with the suspension and axles and must be side by side)....if you do correct the suspension and axles, and every thing else to make them SL, you'd have more in it than if you bought a UTV.
> 
> Steve


Where can I get a conversion kit for $250? I was told $1200 to $1500 (to much) but might consider something in the $250 range.

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## hitechman (Feb 25, 2002)

Jim58 said:


> Where can I get a conversion kit for $250? I was told $1200 to $1500 (to much) but might consider something in the $250 range.
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Here's one.........depends upon exactly what you need to make it street legal. Remember I said they start at about $250 (and go up from there).

http://www.bulldogatv.com/index.php...n=com_virtuemart&Itemid=64&vmcchk=1&Itemid=64

Steve


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## Jim58 (Jan 16, 2010)

hitechman said:


> Here's one.........depends upon exactly what you need to make it street legal. Remember I said they start at about $250 (and go up from there).
> 
> http://www.bulldogatv.com/index.php...n=com_virtuemart&Itemid=64&vmcchk=1&Itemid=64
> 
> Steve


That's a start. I think the dealer said I need a d.o.t. windshield, wipers, mirrors, and turn signals. I am not sure about a rear bumper?

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## poz (Nov 12, 2004)

There is an place in Warren, MI. That does a complete street legal kit. You drop it off and they make it street legal for you in a couple of days. PM me and I'll get you the info. they do excellent work.


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## Buddwiser (Dec 14, 2003)

Jim58 said:


> That's a start. I think the dealer said I need a d.o.t. windshield, wipers, mirrors, and turn signals. I am not sure about a rear bumper?
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


Road legal tires also.


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## TVCJohn (Nov 30, 2005)

hitechman said:


> The FEDS and State DNR have had problems with ATV's NOT following the law and ripping the HE!! out of the forest dirt roads/2-tracks, and thus increasing erosion. These few "special" ATVers also tend to get off the trails and into the woods/hills and rip it up as well............thus, illegal for everyone (unless you have a handicap permit). All has to do with damage and not safety.
> 
> Another case of the "special few" ruining it for the rest of us.
> 
> Steve


Steve,

I'm thinking that maybe over-stated by the DNR. I spend alot of time in the woods and have never seen ATV tracks running thru the woods or off trails. Has anyone tried to get a petition going to relax or eliminate that regulation? We have alot of county roads that criss-cross state roads and many are not marked as to where county ends and/or state begins. There can be alot of confusion with this reg especially where there is a "Y" in the road. 

John


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## hitechman (Feb 25, 2002)

John,

Damage does not happen in most areas, and most of the ATVers are law abiding.

I have a cabin and property in eastern Mason County. Less than 1 mile away is a "2-track" that is a county seasonal road (surrounded by Manistee National Forest land on both sides for most of its length). About 1/2 mile down the road are some hills butting up to the road. They have been torn up badly by "off roaders" (ATV's and 4 WD vehicles). Some one saw the hill and decided to climb it, and others followed. Erosion is rampant. Feds posted no ORV on the hill, and almost every time I drive by, there is a jeep or quad trying to climb the hill.

I see a lot of this along some of the county 2-tracks that follow the rivers in the area (Pine, LM, BM, Big Sable, PM).......where vehilcles have left the road to travel down the hill to the river bank. Pretty chewed up in spots.

So, yes, it does happen, and where it happens is pretty obvious. As I stated before--it's a few that ruin it for the rest of us.

To my knowledge, there is not/has not been a petition to open any of these state/federal trails.

I might add that there are a lot of 2-tracks in Mason and Lake Counties that run through state/fed lands that are county roads and not DNR or FS roads. Check the county road/platt maps for confirmation.

When you come to the "Y" in the road: if it's state DNR, it will be posted "No ORV's" (otherwise OK to travel on)--if a fed forest service road there will be a wooden post with a number on it. It the number is horizontal then ATV's are allowed (UP only I believe), but a vertical number means that ATV's are not allowed. All I have seen in the LP are verticle.

Steve


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