# Any Bayview Setter Owners??



## Lazy K (Jul 28, 2004)

I talk to Dan Catalano of Bayview Setters in New York quite often. I'm not currently a setter man as I've had great luck with those ugly German dogs with the beards lately. Anyway, I know there are a lot of setter guys on this site and was curious if any of you have fooled with the Bayview line.


----------



## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

I don't own a Bayview dog but they are on my short list when I start shopping again.

Can you tell us anymore about the kennel, the breeder, or maybe you have hunted over the dogs?
A guy over UJ has a new pup from them, I'll be watching that dogs progress with interest.


----------



## drwink (Oct 15, 2003)

I prefer a dog with a little more zip and a breeder with a little less control.

Just my .02

Wally


----------



## Lazy K (Jul 28, 2004)

I understand what you're saying about being restrictive with breeding rights. That's his option I guess and you know it going in. He's a good guy to talk to and judging from the waiting list on his pups, he must be doing something right.

I guess the amount of "zip" in a Setter is what sets them all apart. For as varied as the definitions are of "close" and "far yonder" from individual to individual, so are the likes and dislikes of "zip" among hunters. It's hard to define, that's for sure. 

I'm just really intrigued by them and haven't heard from anyone that's owned / hunted with them. I was just curious. Anyone else?


----------



## coverdog (Dec 7, 2003)

No thanks, not the kind of setters I would be interested in. Just my personal preference.


----------



## Setters4life (Oct 27, 2009)

Lazy K said:


> I talk to Dan Catalano of Bayview Setters in New York quite often. I'm not currently a setter man as I've had great luck with those ugly German dogs with the beards lately. Anyway, I know there are a lot of setter guys on this site and was curious if any of you have fooled with the Bayview line.


I see this is a very old thread but I have a Bayview Setter. What would you like to know about them?


----------



## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

if i were looking for setters today, i would look for a pup with champions up close on both sides; sire on the top and grandsire on the bottom.

there is a certain amount of marketing in setters today.


----------



## bwillso (Apr 5, 2007)

Lazy K said:


> I talk to Dan Catalano of Bayview Setters in New York quite often. I'm not currently a setter man as I've had great luck with those ugly German dogs with the beards lately. Anyway, I know there are a lot of setter guys on this site and was curious if any of you have fooled with the Bayview line.


 I have two Bayview Setters. One is eleven years old and the best Grouse dog I have ever owned. The other is a four year old male and it looks like he is going to be a good dog. He was left on the back burner for a couple of seasons for various reasons. No fault of his. These dogs are great bird finders and they handle. They are fast on the ground and look good doing it. They have as much Zip as any of the other setters I have every owned. I have had setters out of Still Meadow Jim, Wrong Way, And presently I have a real nice setter out of Emmy Apple Jack and a Blue Streak bitch. Don't confuse Zip with range. I am 62 years young and my days of finding dogs a quarter mile away on point are over. I like a dog with a lot of zip has a nice forward pattern and handles.


----------



## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

bwillso said:


> I have two Bayview Setters. One is eleven years old and the best Grouse dog I have ever owned. The other is a four year old male and it looks like he is going to be a good dog. He was left on the back burner for a couple of seasons for various reasons. No fault of his. These dogs are great bird finders and they handle. They are fast on the ground and look good doing it. They have as much Zip as any of the other setters I have every owned. I have had setters out of Still Meadow Jim, Wrong Way, And presently I have a real nice setter out of Emmy Apple Jack and a Blue Streak bitch. Don't confuse Zip with range. I am 62 years young and my days of finding dogs a quarter mile away on point are over. I like a dog with a lot of zip has a nice forward pattern and handles.


 Wow that's quite the endorsement.
Post more often so you can add some pictures of your dogs.
How much does your 11year old male weigh?


----------



## Dave Medema (Jan 18, 2005)

A friend owns 3 bayview dogs and has high praise for them. He hunts 3+months of the year all over the continent. This is a book he wrote about his efforts to find, point, and shoot each upland bird (20+ different varieties) from all over the US. It is published by Bonasa press. I just received an email from him yesterday about last months adventure for grouse and woodcock on the east coast. He dogs did the job well.



http://www.bonasapress.com/store/St...6ed90608d-9B109257-E7FA-E0C2-70DBE00F12B6A7DC


----------



## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

is Bayview from Ohio?


----------



## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

dogwhistle said:


> is Bayview from Ohio?


 New York.


----------



## Scott Berg (Feb 24, 2008)

drwink said:


> I prefer a dog with a little more zip and a breeder with a little less control.
> 
> Just my .02
> 
> Wally


Wally,

I am guessing the breeding rights you refer to restricts owners from breeding the dog. I just ran into a very different situation. We produced and sold a dog that was the 1st Red Setter (Irish Setter) to be named a NAVDA versitile Champion. My brother called the owner to ask if I see the dog perform because I would be interested in him as a stud dog, she informed him that she was not interested in allowing us to use him. 

This was her first dog and she had just bred her 1st litter. The ancestors of this dog are primarily from Bob Gove, Roger Berg, Joe Edwards, and Berg Brothers. Between the four of us we have collectively in excess of 140 years of devotion to this breed. Between the four of us we have probably evaluated around 1,000 Red Setters to get to this point. Where would this breed be if the four of us and the handful of other breeders who have impacted the breed restricted breeding rights? 

This was actually a dog that we started and cut because we did not think he was going to be quite good enough to be a stud. It's very common for us to see a dog at 2 years old that we cut at eight or ten months and realize the dog is a superior indivdual worthy of breeding. Unless you keep them all until they are two or three you just don't know their full potential. I guess we are going to have to include a breeding agreement with the males we sell that allows us to use the dog at stud for a set fee.

Where breeding contracts that restrict the owner is concerned, if you have paid market rate you should retain all of the right associated with the dog, including breeding. We would never put breeding restrictions on any of our dogs. We denounce such a practice. It is without question detrimental to the breed and is completely self-indulgent. There is not a top breeder in the country who's program is not very dependent on the efforts of other top breeders. Look at the pedigree of any Champion and you will see dogs from a variety of other breeders. 

We are currently offering our English Setter multiple Champion (FREE) to anyone with a proven (winning) female. The winning dogs that drive improvement or even retention of breed are for the most part produced by a relatively small percentage of breeders. If this type of practice were to become common among impactful breeders it would no doubt be detrimental to the breed.

All of you have the opportunity to support whatever breed you prefer by taking these types of things into consideration when you choose a breeder. Its pretty easy to say well it does not affect me if you dont intend to breed but it does affect the breed.

SRB


----------



## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

self indulgent seems a good term for that practice, scott. it seems like a marketing practice to me.

mike


----------



## BIGSP (Sep 16, 2004)

bwillso said:


> I have two Bayview Setters. One is eleven years old and the best Grouse dog I have ever owned. The other is a four year old male and it looks like he is going to be a good dog. He was left on the back burner for a couple of seasons for various reasons. No fault of his. These dogs are great bird finders and they handle. They are fast on the ground and look good doing it. They have as much Zip as any of the other setters I have every owned. I have had setters out of Still Meadow Jim, Wrong Way, And presently I have a real nice setter out of Emmy Apple Jack and a Blue Streak bitch. Don't confuse Zip with range. I am 62 years young and my days of finding dogs a quarter mile away on point are over. I like a dog with a lot of zip has a nice forward pattern and handles.


I've hunted behind Emmy's Applejack. That is one awesome grouse dog. Vance Butler who runs him says that he is one of if not the finest grouse dog he has ever run. That's saying a lot from a guy who has a bunch of championships and RUCH's under his belt.

I am not a setter guy but, if I was I would get a dog out of Applejack.


----------



## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

i'm not clear, is emmy's apple jack a bayview dog?


----------



## Scott Berg (Feb 24, 2008)

dogwhistle said:


> i'm not clear, is emmy's apple jack a bayview dog?


Mike,

I will serve this one up for you. You have made the point of breeding to the top of the gene pool / Champions on several occasions. Applejacks background is just another of the many examples of what happens when you breed individuals that represent the top of the gene pool. He is a product of exceptional ancestry. 

One the top side, Applejack is out of one of the top producers in the history of the breed, CH Grouse Ridge Reroy. Rreoy was out of legendary producer, although not a Champion, Grouse Ridge Leroy. Leroy was by CH Bobby Joe who was by CH Long Gone Sam. Reroys dam was Swift Run Lace who was by a great Smith bred Champion and producer, CH Pinnacle. Pinnacle was by IM Oscar, who is in the top 10 producers of all time and Pinnacles Dam was CH Amber. 

Applejacks dam was by CH Hunters Billy Ray. Billy won the MN grouse championship with an absolutely flawless performance. I bred to him and was very pleased with the pups. Billy was out of Hazens BA and CH Silk Doll. BA was not a Champion but he did have around 40 horseback placements as I recall. He was out of a Tomoka female. I had a pup out of him that was a very nice dog. CH Silk Doll was also out of a female CH. 

Canine genetics regress toward the mean rapidly. This is what it takes to produce a superior animal. 

SRB


----------

