# Baseborad heating



## DeerManager (Oct 4, 2006)

Hey guys,
It is coming that time of year again (snow flying) i love this time due to me being in the woods more often, but my heat bill hates me. My son's room (10 months old) has two outside walls and when i wake him up in the morning his hands are freezing as well as his ears (no blankets due to him tossing and turning all night). I want to add a 36" electric baseboard heater in his room under one of the two windows. I'll try to attach a picture (in ms paint) of his room layout. 

I'd like to do this for a few reasons;
1. His room is literally on the opposite end of the house from the furnace
2. he has two windows and a corner room
3. it's much cheaper than trying to remedy the issue with a new run (larger diameter 

What should i look for when adding a baseboard heater? I have them up north at the cottage so i know about clearance issues, but anything else? I'd like to also add a wall mount thermostat so i can turn it off in the am and turn it up to about 70* before we put him to bed.

Thanks in advance fellas. Oh i am recently upgraded my 60amp service to 150 so i have space in my panel.

Thanks, Jay & Josh
Josh thanks you in advance!


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## DeerManager (Oct 4, 2006)

please excuse this "sketch" it was done after a long day and past my bedtime on a dang laptop!

Red line is where i think i should put the heater


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## jakeo (Sep 14, 2004)

I have wired a few of these over the years and going by your diagram I would put 1- 4' or 5' (500watts per ft) heater under the window. Run a 12-2 Romex wire up to the unit that you will evenly divide the window by and mount it off the carpet (just above trim?) and screw it to the studs AFTER you run the wire in the back of the junction box. Run the 12-2 Romex back to the electrical panal and feed it with a 2-pole, 20 amp breaker. Make sure the heater has a UNISTAT on it to control the temp otherwise you have to wire for a thermostat and I dont thinkits needed for his room.
The wiring now will be a black and white wire with ground. When you hook up , they both will be considered BLACK so tape or paint the white wire black for future reference. It will be 220volts so no neutral is needed. Not a hard job and heaters can be bought at any big box store or a lighting fixture store can order.
KEEP CURTAINS away!!


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## DeerManager (Oct 4, 2006)

Thanks for the reply!

I was also considering the 120 versions, any pros or cons of the 240 or 120 version? A 120v draws more amperage, correct? I wired the house and basement with 12-2 so i should be fine either way, right? 12G would work for 120v and i would only need 14g for the 240v heater, so I might was well run the 240v with beefier wire and run it as both wires hot from both poles, does this make sense to anyone besides me?

Thanks again


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## double trouble (Nov 20, 2003)

240 volts uses about half the amperage per watts energy . you can get an ceramic element oil filled heater with 3 fan speeds that runs on 240 volts. Much safer and softer heat than open elements.

look at bionaire and Delonghi heaters. Both are under $100


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## tinmarine (Nov 19, 2007)

How do you figure that this is a cheaper route to take?

1) you have to purchase unit
2) you pay for the additional electricity used for said heater
3) if you go with an additional duct run (just add another as opposed to bigger) your furnace will not run longer than it currently does. Thus not increasing your gas bill.

Just do it the right way and have an additional duct run installed, or have an electric duct heater installed. That way you don't have to worry about curtains or more importantly, your son won't get burned.

http://www.heatersplus.com/hotpod.htm


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## DeerManager (Oct 4, 2006)

tinmarine said:


> How do you figure that this is a cheaper route to take?
> 
> 1) you have to purchase unit Cheap
> 2) you pay for the additional electricity used for said heater TRUE
> ...


Thanks for the info.
$285 is a lot more expensive than i really wanted to spend, but it may be worth it.


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## jakeo (Sep 14, 2004)

DeerManager said:


> Thanks for the reply!
> 
> I was also considering the 120 versions, any pros or cons of the 240 or 120 version? A 120v draws more amperage, correct? I wired the house and basement with 12-2 so i should be fine either way, right? 12G would work for 120v and i would only need 14g for the 240v heater, so I might was well run the 240v with beefier wire and run it as both wires hot from both poles, does this make sense to anyone besides me?
> 
> Thanks again


Just to correct you...the bigger the number..the smaller the wire. #12 is larger then #14. It gets complicated when you get into 1/0 +. Just be careful


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## bigcountrysg (Oct 9, 2006)

hmmm maybe cheaper to add insulation to the attic. Just a thought for you. Does your roof keep snow on it through winter or does it stay pretty bare. If it is pretty bare and not a lot snow on the roof you need to add insulation to the attic. 

Why fight the battle with adding to your bills. When you can fight the battle and possibly win with add insulation. Also adding insulation to the attic last I checked was tax deductable.


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## Ausable Junkie (Oct 2, 2002)

Big Country brings up a good point for you to consider. My last home (lived there 10 years) had the same 60amp box with the twist-in fuses like you had. That pretty much dates the structure to a time when insulation wasn't given the priority it should have. Many of these structures (including mine) were someone's cabin and not a primary residence so cutting corners to save a little was common

I'm thinking that maybe the two windows may be older as well. The windows made today are much better at keeping the cold out versus the ones available 30, 40, 50 years ago.

The initial investment may be more than the cost of a heater, but within a few years, these two options will pay for themselves. Once you buy a window or insulation, thats it, there's no more cost involved. An electric heater will spin the meter faster and keep your power company happy. The potential fire risk with an electric heater is something you wouldn't have to worry about by choosing the other options.

Had an afterthought on your problem: I'm guessing that most of the time your son is in his room, its for sleepy time. A cheap way to keep the cold out from the windows is to cut some pieces of styrofoam and cover the hole the window makes in the wall. I think a 4' x 8' sheet of 2" thick foam sells for around $25.
If he's sleeping, he wont miss the sunshine coming through his window for an afternoon nap.


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## DeerManager (Oct 4, 2006)

jakeo said:


> Just to correct you...the bigger the number..the smaller the wire. #12 is larger then #14. It gets complicated when you get into 1/0 +. Just be careful


I didn't know i made a error, i know gauges as i have been wiring cars for a good part of my life. I have 4g run in my truck to power my accessories. The smaller wire (14g) would only be needed minimum for the 240v due to the amperage it draws, the 120v pulled more amps, so it'd have to be at least 12g was my understanding.


All good points fellas, thanks. I am going to be adding insulation to the attic, that was on my to do list. The windows are not old, just really crummy. I put the clear vinyl over them in the winter (or at least last year i did). The issue is we came into some unexpected bills as many of us do from time to time, and it is really straining our budget, so honestly right now cheap is better. I'll add insulation in a few weeks when i was planning anyway, and i'll go from there. Thanks again guys


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## 2britts (Dec 21, 2008)

I have 60' runs of uninsulated duct in my basement and still get hot air out. If you are getting cold air in what looks like shorter a shorter run from your sketch there could be more wrong here. If you cant insulate because the run is on the underside of the joists I would look at a roll of reflectix to go around the duct and staple to the joists.
http://www.reflectixinc.com/ 

The other thing I would look for is flappers on the vent covers or in the ducts. If you can close down the vents closer to the furnace some you should get more heat on the further runs. Sometimes it just takes a little tuning to get things working the way you want.


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## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

I see some other good points and they are along the lines of what I was thinking too. Electric baseboard is going to cost $$ to run! I was going to suggest the addition of insulation too but that's apparently already in your plans. I like the suggestion of insulating the duct work too. But here's another possibility that's not too expensive. You can get an in-line blower and add it to the run that feeds your son's room. It appears that his room is the furthest from the furnace so it may be the hardest to heat/cool. The simple addition of an in-line booster might help and cost a lot less to install/operate than a baseboard heater.

John

*EDIT:*
Here's what I'm talking about. This 6" is probably what you'd need and it's only $28. If you needed an 8", it's only $34.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xi0/R-100067594/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053


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## jakeo (Sep 14, 2004)

Before I replaced some of my windows, I would buy the 3M plastic that you would use the hair dryer to seal. They worked awesome.
DONT buy the lower cost junk......thats exactly what they are.


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## tinmarine (Nov 19, 2007)

2britts said:


> I have 60' runs of uninsulated duct in my basement and still get hot air out. If you are getting cold air in what looks like shorter a shorter run from your sketch there could be more wrong here. If you cant insulate because the run is on the underside of the joists I would look at a roll of reflectix to go around the duct and staple to the joists.
> http://www.reflectixinc.com/
> 
> *The other thing I would look for is flappers on the vent covers or in the ducts. If you can close down the vents closer to the furnace some you should get more heat on the further runs. Sometimes it just takes a little tuning to get things working the way you want.*


Only problem with closing off dampers is it could hurt the system. If there is restriction it builds up static pressure. When the static goes up, it could actually choke and lower the CFM that's being delivered.

If you insulate the duct, you need to seal it as well. It helps, both sealing and insulating.


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## tinmarine (Nov 19, 2007)

jpollman said:


> I see some other good points and they are along the lines of what I was thinking too. Electric baseboard is going to cost $$ to run! I was going to suggest the addition of insulation too but that's apparently already in your plans. I like the suggestion of insulating the duct work too. But here's another possibility that's not too expensive. You can get an in-line blower and add it to the run that feeds your son's room. It appears that his room is the furthest from the furnace so it may be the hardest to heat/cool. The simple addition of an in-line booster might help and cost a lot less to install/operate than a baseboard heater.
> 
> John
> 
> ...


If he just runs a booster, it will increase the velocity, but it won't help with the temperature of the air delivered and it could cool it down even more. The inline duct heaters have a fan built in to deliver more air and heat it as well.


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## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

tinmarine said:


> If he just runs a booster, it will increase the velocity, but it won't help with the temperature of the air delivered and it could cool it down even more. The inline duct heaters have a fan built in to deliver more air and heat it as well.


Yeah I just saw that post you made. Looks like a good way to go. I've seen the in-line blowers, but didn't know they made them with a heater also. That may work well and be safer than a space heater or electric baseboard.

John


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## Golden Arrow II (Aug 8, 2009)

Is there a cold air return in his room? If not that can be the problem as the air is not being exchanged.


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## DeerManager (Oct 4, 2006)

some vents are closed via baffles in the basement, ducts are sealed with silver sealant that holland heating recommended to me. I'm going to home depot with Josh tonight to look at a few things. I'm now undecided of what i am going to do, thanks for the ideas fellas! That is why i posted it here, i knew ya'll would have better ideas than i had.


Anyone want to install a roof cap for a bathroom fan exhaust for me? I don't feel like cutting a hole in my roof and moving shingles in this weather, but i found that the current set up in the attic is a MESS


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## The_Don (Apr 28, 2008)

drop it out your soffits.


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