# Start Praying...



## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

With the blasting now in full effect, you Yoopers better start praying this mine doesn't destroy nearby watersheds. The risk is real...

http://www.miningjournal.net/page/content.detail/id/567445.html


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## itchn2fish (Dec 15, 2005)

The mine is a badly flawed project. The review of the Kennecott application by the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality ignored the design deficiencies, suggesting that it was either incompetent or in collusion with Kennecott. Furthermore, metallic sulfide mines are inherently risky. There has never been one that hasn&#8217;t contaminated the surrounding water sources.
It is not unlikely to see a cascade of mining applications come to the MDEQ now that Kennecott has begun drilling.
http://www.yellowdogwatershed.org/blog/2011/10/06/copperwood-permit-application-submitted/


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## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

No doubt, someone in the Michigan DEQ had their pockets lined when they signed off on that one...

Essentially, this will lead to the destruction of one of the most beautiful and wild places left in the country...


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## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

A good quick reference guide to why this is such a bad thing that is happening...

http://savethewildup.org/images/pdf/12-reasons.pdf


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## itchn2fish (Dec 15, 2005)

*W*hat *W*ould *J*ohn (Voelker) *D*o?
http://mmnow.com/mm_archive_folder/07/0710/iod.html
The mining application admits that it will discharge polluted water to aquifers; the mine will emit at least 20 tons of pollution into the air each year, which will end up in surface and ground water. According to National Wildlife Federation, our "new mining law and regulations require that the DEQ reject any sulfide mining request unless the mining applicant demonstrates clearly that it will not 'pollute, impair or destroy' land, air, water, or groundwater." Identified risks include:

-collapse of the roof of the mine, which lies directly beneath the Salmon Trout River. 
-acid mine drainage (see information on Sulfuric Acid Mine Drainage below) 
-air pollution from a 50-foot tall stack (annually "at least 20 tons of dust containing sulfides and metals") 
-loud noise levels from mining and rock crushing at the site 
-80 ore truck trips a day impacting the region's roads (including spreading acid dust on roadsides)
http://sweetwatervisions.com/Pages/sulfidemine.html


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## Benzie Rover (Mar 17, 2008)

Degradation of water quality from industrial resource extraction in the UP is serious and real and has an irreversible impact on the fishery. Whether it is poor logging practices or mining, the result is often the same in terms of habitat destruction. And now this projects adds toxic effluent to the equation... BUT... by golly, it will bring jobs and that is all that matters up there, thus, the DEQ folks will never stop it. But, I am not here to wage a war between the environmentalists and those advocating for rural UP folks to have some chance at job. 

I just want to point out how AMAZING it is that soooooooooooooooooo much effort/energy/emotion goes into issues such as how or where we can fish (gear restrictions, catch and release, slot limits, etc....) YET, virtually no-one will raise an eyebrow (or tap a keyboard) to express disapproval about activities that are virtually guaranteed to totally eliminate fisheries. There will not be any fighting about how to fish, when to fish or where to fish in the yellowdog watershed... There simply will NOT be any fish. Follow the case history of this mining 'technology' across the country. It is unreal we approved this here, but again, the DEQ is not here to stop projects... the reality is their job is to help folks become permitted. So I guess that is our answer... get rid of all the fish and no one will argue anymore.


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## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

Less than one hundred high labor/low paying jobs for a period of up to 7 years...

It's not even like it is really creating any jobs...

This is an absolute travesty and yes, you are right, people do not seem willing to try and do anything about it...


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## Jfish (Sep 22, 2010)

Well what exactly can we do? I'm more than willing to put forth time/effort if it will do any good.

Friggin government anyhow. State or Federal. Probably approving it for the 'jobs' so that it helps Obama with his campaign.


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## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

Jfish said:


> Well what exactly can we do? I'm more than willing to put forth time/effort if it will do any good.
> 
> Friggin government anyhow. State or Federal. Probably approving it for the 'jobs' so that it helps Obama with his campaign.


A couple of ways to help:

http://www.menomineeriver.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=58&Itemid=59

http://savethewildup.org/how-you-can-help/

Myself, I continue calling my State Government (representatives, Governor, etc...) daily and complaining about it. They know who I am before I say who I am by now.

I keep inquiring about the claims of corruption in the DEQ as the mine clearly does not meet the requirements that it is supposed to meet, yet it was signed off on by someone.

I keep contacting news agencies big and small.

The more people who keep making noise about this, the more likely something will be done.

One already slipped through the cracks, maybe we can make sure the next one doesn't...


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

Benzie Rover said:


> I just want to point out how AMAZING it is that soooooooooooooooooo much effort/energy/emotion goes into issues such as how or where we can fish (gear restrictions, catch and release, slot limits, etc....) YET, virtually no-one will raise an eyebrow (or tap a keyboard) to express disapproval about activities that are virtually guaranteed to totally eliminate fisheries. There will not be any fighting about how to fish, when to fish or where to fish in the yellowdog watershed... There simply will NOT be any fish.
> 
> So I guess that is our answer... get rid of all the fish and no one will argue anymore.


100% correct. That is one of the most maddening aspects of the whole gear debacle.


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## itchn2fish (Dec 15, 2005)

Will be in this area during firearms deer season to see what's going on in-person.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

THe UP is for sale according to the DNR. The Michigan DNR is not very well liked in the UP and with what is going on here everyone can see why. The DNR stands to make millions if not hundreds of millions of dollars by selling off our resources. Very little of that money will ever be transferred back to the UP once it hits Lansing. We have already lost our deer hunting no thanks to the DNR and their fantastic wolf program. Now we are about to lose some prime fish habitat that will take forever to restore. I hope that the DNR is happy when they finally convert the UP into a vast wasteland.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

The Native American Communities who reside in the state of Michigan need to file a lawsuit over mineral rights and the impact that pollution will have upon the resources. The rest of us who reside in the UP care more about land, air, and water quality than they do about the jobs that some mine will create. In Michigan there is minimum wage and Yooper wage (which is less than minimum wage). but we survive. We don't need this mine to support the DNR.


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## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

Robert Holmes said:


> THe UP is for sale according to the DNR. The Michigan DNR is not very well liked in the UP and with what is going on here everyone can see why. The DNR stands to make millions if not hundreds of millions of dollars by selling off our resources. Very little of that money will ever be transferred back to the UP once it hits Lansing. We have already lost our deer hunting no thanks to the DNR and their fantastic wolf program. Now we are about to lose some prime fish habitat that will take forever to restore. I hope that the DNR is happy when they finally convert the UP into a vast wasteland.


You should likely research the roles of the DEQ and DNR, these permits, don't come from the DNR...


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Think about it, really jobs for Michigan residents, I doubt it. Most of those who will be employed are professionals who will move into the area work and move on. Just like when they put the I-75 median barricade cable fence in. A group from Saginaw came up to the UP and did not/would not hire a single local person. They did the work and moved on. None of the **it the state or DNR does in the UP creates jobs for local residents. They use the UP to generate money for Lansing.


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## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

Robert Holmes said:


> The Native American Communities who reside in the state of Michigan need to file a lawsuit over mineral rights and the impact that pollution will have upon the resources. The rest of us who reside in the UP care more about land, air, and water quality than they do about the jobs that some mine will create. In Michigan there is minimum wage and Yooper wage (which is less than minimum wage). but we survive. We don't need this mine to support the DNR.


I believe they have or are at least working on it...


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## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

Robert Holmes said:


> Think about it, really jobs for Michigan residents, I doubt it. Most of those who will be employed are professionals who will move into the area work and move on. Just like when they put the I-75 median barricade cable fence in. A group from Saginaw came up to the UP and did not/would not hire a single local person. They did the work and moved on. None of the **it the state or DNR does in the UP creates jobs for local residents. They use the UP to generate money for Lansing.


Less than 100 local jobs will be created for a period no longer than 7 years, none of which will be "high paying" skilled jobs...


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Boozer said:


> You should likely research the roles of the DEQ and DNR, these permits, don't come from the DNR...


 I believe that the DNR gets the money from logging, oil, and mineral rights.


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## itchn2fish (Dec 15, 2005)

Those deposits could be worth billions of dollars, but the companies that extract them from the ground wont pay a penny in severance taxes.
http://bridgemi.com/2011/11/mines-begin-digging-into-u-p-free-of-state-tax/


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

no tax = no miing operation


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## fishinDon (May 23, 2002)

Kory - did you ever get any responses from the DEQ?

There's some info here, which you've probably seen:
http://www.michigan.gov/deq/0,4561,7-135-3311_4111_18442---,00.html

Don


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## fishinDon (May 23, 2002)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/industries/apnewsbreak-judge-upholds-michigan-officials-decision-to-issue-permit-for-kennecott-mine/2011/11/23/gIQAM5A4oN_story.html


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## Zorba (Jan 24, 2007)

Lots of mines in Northern Ontario just like this one and the fishing is the best you will ever find.


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## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

Zorba said:


> Lots of mines in Northern Ontario just like this one and the fishing is the best you will ever find.


Just because there are big fish, doesn't mean there isn't pollution from the mines...

Anyway, there certainly is a lot of promises and promising statements being made about this mine being a model for mines to come in terms of safety to the environment.

The fact is, it's still a risk, with very minimal benefits to the State of Michigan and the residents of the U.P. Some may be OK with it, others will not. Only time will tell, I don't have an issue with mining persay, just would hate to see such an excellent part of our Country be damaged by the negligence of a foreign company...


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## Boozer (Sep 5, 2010)

fishinDon said:


> Kory - did you ever get any responses from the DEQ?
> 
> There's some info here, which you've probably seen:
> http://www.michigan.gov/deq/0,4561,7-135-3311_4111_18442---,00.html
> ...


I spoke at length with Bryan Burroughs about it...

Essentially it came down to the decision of one judge, she seen it one way, others do not. That is in regards to the Kennecott mine...

I guess you can call me a fool for not simply taking their word for it like some mindless drone, but hey, the Government still swears up and down that fracking is just fine, look how great that is working out for the citizens of Pennsylvania...


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## Jfish (Sep 22, 2010)

I'm amazed by how many people are for this mine in the UP. Makes me seriously wonder what they're thinking.


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## itchn2fish (Dec 15, 2005)

Four groups are planning to appeal a recent court ruling that cleared the way for Kennecott Eagle Minerals Co. to go ahead with mining operations in the U.P., the Associated Press reports. The opposition coalition was filing paperwork Monday asking the Michigan Court of Appeals to overturn a decision last month by Circuit Judge Paula Manderfield. She ruled that the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality acted properly by issuing Kennecott a permit for the project in northwestern Marquette County.
http://www.michiganradio.org/post/kennecott-mine-opponents-appeal-judges-go-ahead-ruling
So what are we getting in return?
http://www.michiganradio.org/post/mining-what-does-state-get-return


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## itchn2fish (Dec 15, 2005)

This arial photo was taken September 2011 -








The ore deposit the company is after is about a mile away from the mine's opening (and about 1,000 to 1,500 feet underground). They're not expected to reach the deposit until sometime in 2013.


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