# .444 Marlin for Michigan Whitetail?



## MIoutdoorsjunkie (Oct 11, 2006)

Hello all... 

After reading a recent article in Woods and water news this caliber has sparked my intrest. I have been in the market for a new lever action deer slayer and have a few questions:

Does anyone have experience with caliber for Whitetail? If so what are your opinions? Do you like the caliber? Too big? Better options out there in a lever gun? 

For General Michigan Whitetail hunting is it necessary to have a scope on say... a Marlin 444 Lever action rifle? Could I get away with Iron sights for shots up to 100yrds? 

Thanks
Jeff


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## PA BUCK 2 (Oct 17, 2006)

I have owned 2 .444 marlins over time. One was scoped and one had a peep on it. Both worked well in PA and in Michigan for whitetail. Is it more rilfe than is truly needed- probably so. But then again- so are a lot of the choices we make for whitetail. 

All I can say is that it punched large holes in the deer that we shot and they did not go far after that. We used OTC ammo and handloads for our... Recoil can be pretty stiff- but not that bad IMO.


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## skinne (Dec 20, 2000)

i own 1 and use it a few days each season personally i like it. i use it in tight areas where i know i wont have a long shot mostly because i have guns that are better suited for long range but with the lever evolution ammo you can take longer shots. heavier then most levers,has pretty good recoil also. mine has a scope came that way and havent found a reason to take it off. ammo runs about 25 to 30 a box if memory serves me right but i havent bought any in a couple of years.

all and all i would recommend it but theres lots of other good choices for lever guns out there.


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## CMR (Jul 25, 2003)

I too own a Marlin .444 and am very pleased with it. 
I don't use factory ammo in it and handload for it. I use 300gr hard cast bullets with Reloader7 powder. I can get 2200 fps at the muzzle. 
Haven't shot anything with it yet but hoping to do so with my russian boar hunting trip.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

Great swamp guns. If you are looking at an all around lever gun look at the BLR in one of the higher velocity cartridges, like the .308 model.


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## jayzbird (May 19, 2005)

It is an excellent whitetail cartridge for short/medium range. Both my brother( my brothers is a older Marlin, mine a Winchester 94 Big Bore) and I have had great success with our .444's. It also makes for an excellent bear cartridge as well. Only downside to the .444 is it's very minimal factory loadings. Remington makes a 240 soft point, they discontinued the better 265 load. Hornady makes the leverevolution (which doesn't shoot worth beans out of my gun), and the 265 flat point. Buffalo Bore and Corbon also make some heavy specialty loadings for it also. One thing though, with the current price increase of ammo, shooting the old .444 isn't cheap. Aside from the Remington ammo, the rest are crazy expensive!!! If you can hack the price of the ammo, or handload your own, it's a GREAT round in my eyes.


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## 8iowa (Jan 28, 2008)

For several years the factory load, which used the 240 grain 44 Magnum bullet, was criticized for poor performance on game due to the higher velocity. Hornady's 265 grain bullet was a step in the right direction. If I had a 444 I would likely cast my own bullets for this cartridge.

That said, you might also give consideration to Browning's lever action BLR chambered in 358 Winchester. This cartridge has an excelent hunting reputation, even on game larger than deer. The 358 will carry far more energy downrange and have a flatter trajectory than the 444. The 358's downside is the fact that the factory load is only offered with a 200 grain bullet. This of course is fine for deer. If you handload, the 358 can really be made to shine, with choices of conventional and premium bullets up to 250 grains.


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## MIoutdoorsjunkie (Oct 11, 2006)

Thanks for all the responses guys. I am in the Market for a lever gun and the .444 caught my eye. How does the .444 compare to the .45-70? is the .45-70 a better choice? I rarely get a shot over 100yrds in the areas I hunt. If I did get something like the .444 it would probably end up being my "go to" gun for whitetail here in MI. I do have a Remington 700 BDL in .300 win mag but I think that is a biut Large for whitetail and packs a puch in the recoil dept. Really tough to get any practice rounds through it. Snythetic stock doesnt help with the recoil either. How does the .444 recoil compare to the .300 win mag? 

Thanks again..

Jeff


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## jayzbird (May 19, 2005)

MIoutdoorsjunkie said:


> Thanks for all the responses guys. I am in the Market for a lever gun and the .444 caught my eye. How does the .444 compare to the .45-70? is the .45-70 a better choice? I rarely get a shot over 100yrds in the areas I hunt. If I did get something like the .444 it would probably end up being my "go to" gun for whitetail here in MI. I do have a Remington 700 BDL in .300 win mag but I think that is a biut Large for whitetail and packs a puch in the recoil dept. Really tough to get any practice rounds through it. Snythetic stock doesnt help with the recoil either. How does the .444 recoil compare to the .300 win mag?
> 
> Thanks again..
> 
> Jeff


There is ALOT more choices as far as ammo for the 45/70. As far as comparing the 45/70 to the .444, the 444 retains more enrgy and velocity downrange than the 45/70 does. But then thats comparing the 240 grain 444 load to the 300 grain 45/70 load. Inside 100 yards they're pretty close within a few hundred feet/sec and ft lbs of energy. As far as comparing the 444 to the 300 mag thats like comparing a 1 ton truck to a fast sportscar, not even in the same league....


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## MIoutdoorsjunkie (Oct 11, 2006)

jayzbird said:


> There is ALOT more choices as far as ammo for the 45/70. As far as comparing the 45/70 to the .444, the 444 retains more enrgy and velocity downrange than the 45/70 does. But then thats comparing the 240 grain 444 load to the 300 grain 45/70 load. Inside 100 yards they're pretty close within a few hundred feet/sec and ft lbs of energy. As far as comparing the 444 to the 300 mag thats like comparing a 1 ton truck to a fast sportscar, not even in the same league....


Gotcha... Yeah when I was refering to the .444 vs. the .300 win Mag I wanted to know about recoil. I know that one is a sports car and one is a 1-ton truck... I wanted to know if the recoil is similar.


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## troutchops (Apr 15, 2005)

I got a .450 Marlin guide gun this year and put a Leupold scope on it. I hunt in a cedar swamp and can't wait to use it. I shot a big ole' nine point last year with a 45/70, it dropped. I'm not one for tracking. I think all of these guns/calibers are great swamp/close quarter deer rifles. As in, 100 yards and in. They're maybe more firepower than you need, but that's part of the fun for me.


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## jayzbird (May 19, 2005)

MIoutdoorsjunkie said:


> Gotcha... Yeah when I was refering to the .444 vs. the .300 win Mag I wanted to know about recoil. I know that one is a sports car and one is a 1-ton truck... I wanted to know if the recoil is similar.


Depends on the weight of the rifle of course. My model 94 big bore and the Marlin guide guns have a pretty hefty wallop to em. My brothers full size 444s Marlin is a bit less stout on the shoulder. I would say bout the same as a .30-06. I have a .338 win mag in a Browning A bolt and it's quite a bit more recoil, I know that the .300 is just a touch less than the .338. Of course my model 94 only has a thin plastic buttplate where the Marlins have a cushion buttplate. They're not too bad, not quite as much as your .300.


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## michigander88 (Aug 15, 2000)

If nothing else you'll be ready for an encounter with the wily MI cougar

MI88


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## One Eye (Sep 10, 2000)

Love mine. I have both the .444 and the 45/70; both in Marlin lever actions. Very accurate and fast handling.
Dan


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## tedshunter (Dec 27, 2004)

My buddy has a 444 for sale .Pm me if you are interested.Great swamp gun like Esox has stated earlier.


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## jmoser (Sep 11, 2002)

MIoutdoorsjunkie said:


> Thanks for all the responses guys. I am in the Market for a lever gun and the .444 caught my eye. How does the .444 compare to the .45-70? is the .45-70 a better choice?
> 
> Jeff



The .444 Marlin is a souped up .44 magnum and limited to lighter bullets.

I shoot a 45/70 Marlin Guide Gun with 400 gr bullets and highly recommend it. The Remington 405 gr factory ammo is only about 1250 fps and pretty mild recoil. My handloads are 400 Speers at 1600 fps and still not too harsh. [I have loaded some 400s to 1850 fps and those knock you silly.]

Neither caliber is going to stretch you much beyond 100 yards; if you want a long range rifle stay away from lever actions in the first place.

My vote is for the 45-70, especially if you handload. May be more factory choices for the .444. Either one is fine for MI deer but the 45-70 is one awesome cartridge!


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

> if you want a long range rifle stay away from lever actions in the first place.


While not truly "long range" It is for my MI hunting- My BLR will consistently group about 3 3/4" at 200 yards for me feeding it Winchester 150 grain Power Points. I would bet a better marksman could do better. Speers shoot very well out of it, but I am not impressed with the expansion I have gotten out of them. The BLR has a rotating bolt that makes it very accurate for a lever gun.


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## MIoutdoorsjunkie (Oct 11, 2006)

Thanks for the responses guys.. Appreciate it.

Jeff


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

I have a Winchester 94 Timber Carbine in .444 Marlin. The Timber Carbine is basically a 94 Big Bore, with a carbine length barrel. It's very short, very light, and points and handles like lightning, even with a scope! There are only 3 mainstream factory loads for the .444. A 240gr Remington soft point and two, 265 grain loads from Hornady, onebeing the leverrevolution ammo. The Hornday stuff is much better on game than the Remington. You can get high end custom ammo loaded from Garret....it's expensive, but can handle any game animal anywhere. The .444 is a great handloaders cartridge as ther are a lot of stout .429 caliber bullets available. For now, I use the factory Hornady and it works just fine. 
The .45-70 in most factory form, is pretty mild, due to the fact that their are guns chambered in this caliber that cannot handle much pressure...it's originally a black powder cartridge. However, the Marlin is a strong action and handloaders can run pretty hot .45/70 loads through this gun that are more potent than the .444 stuff. Also, Garret loads some ammo that is outright scary. The .45-70 with the correct loads is plenty of medicine for anything that walks this earth, including Africa dangerous game. 

The .450 Marlin, is basically .45-70 loaded to pressures that todays rifles cna handle...it's a .45-70 for those that don't handload in reality. 

For any of these, you're looking at $40+ for ammo...the Garrett stuff is more yet. Recoil of my Timber Carbine is not bad at all.....it's nothing like a .300 mag. The .300 has a fast sharp jab while the .444 has slower shove. It's really not bad at all. Mine is ported and so are the Marlin guide guns....noise isn't too bad, but it does tame muzzle jump to some extent. You can also get the .444 or the .45-70 in a standard Marlin 1895 with a 24" barrel. 

Big bore levers are fun to shoot, and more fun to hunt with. I say go for it!!


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## MIoutdoorsjunkie (Oct 11, 2006)

ok.. so what do I buy? Should I go with the .45-70 because of available factory ammo or should I get the .444? Keep in mind I do own a .300 win mag... so I already have something to kill large game. The gun I buy will be specifically used for MI whitetail and I would rarely be shooting over 100-150 yards. I would like to try open sights or a Ghost ring. 

Also.. Can someone tell me the differences between the model 1895 and Model 444? Is longer Barrell (24") better in these guns?

Thanks


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

I'd get the Marlin 1895G (Guide Gun) in 444 Marlin.. It's short, fast handling characteristics lend itself well to being a true swamper.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

The Marlin Model 444 is a Marlin 1895 but chambered in .444 Marlin. They are the same exact gun, just different caliber. Marlin could have saved the confusion and just called them both the 1895. The Guide Gun series in .45-70 and .450 Marlin are just short barreled, straight stocked and ported 1895 Marlins...they are all built on the same action. Marlin originally also chambered the Guide gun in .444 but the .45-70 out sold .444 buy a good bit, so the dropped that chambering in the Guide Gun. All are great guns, just depends on what you want. Personaly, I think a short barreled lever is an ideal mix of easy carry and fast handling. The short barrel gives up some in the way of velocity, but not enough to matter. The regular 1895's have a pistol grip stock...some prefer that over the straight grip on the Guide Guns, all just personal preferance.

XS makes ghost rings for the both the Marlin and the Winchester. I pesonaly prefer a low powered variable because thats what I'm used to and I hunt mainly heavy timber and cedar. Optics allow to me to pick a spot better in poor light conditions. My Winchester it topepd with a 2-7x33mm Leupold slug gun scope but wat topped with a 1.75-5x20mm Burris Fullfield. Both scopes work well, though the 2-7 is more than I need on there. At some point, a Leupold VXIII 1.5-5x20mm will be getting the nod. At 1.5x it's very fast at picking up game and it's very bright. A scout type mount with quick release scope mounts and a peep is really the best of both worlds. You can remove and remount the scope quickly without any loss in accuracy (in most cases) and use the peep under good light conditions and the scope at dawn and dusk. 

I would go with either caliber, but my preference would be the Marlin Guide Gun so that would limit me to .45-70, since the .444 is only chambered in the fullsize Marlin. Ofcourse, the Win 94 in .444 is no more. H&R/NEF does chamber the .444 in it's single shot Handi Rifle as well.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

ESOX said:


> I'd get the Marlin 1895G (Guide Gun) in 444 Marlin.. It's short, fast handling characteristics lend itself well to being a true swamper.


You'll have to find one still on the rack, or used. Marlin hasn't chambered the Guide Gun in .444 for a few years now. You might beable to find a new one still though....get on the phone for a search. If you can find one, go for it!!


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## MIoutdoorsjunkie (Oct 11, 2006)

Thanks guys.. I am going to look around a bit and see what is out there. For some reason I am leaning to a .444 but really like the idea of the shorter barrell... hmmmm.... decisions... 

Thanks again.
Jeff


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

Dang. I didn't know they quit making the 1895G in .444. I passed on one that was less than 10 years old and in immaculate condition (I think it was made in 2000) just because I use the BLR all the time. I wish I would have known they quit making them. One more gun sitting around wouldn't have hurt that much. LOL


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## troutchops (Apr 15, 2005)

Just a little FYI, the Marlin guide series of guns are no longer ported.


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

444 Marlin or 45-70; either are more than enough for Michigan whitetails. 

You may also want to consider a 44 Magnum - it's more than enough gun inside of 100 yards on a whitetail. 

Scope or iron sights is your call - iron sights in the hands of the right shooter are capable of decent groups at 100 yards.


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## jayzbird (May 19, 2005)

Swamp Monster said:


> I have a Winchester 94 Timber Carbine in .444 Marlin. quote]
> 
> I thought I was the only guy on earth with a 94 Winchester in .444 Marlin??? Sweet rifle isn't it? I have the Big Bore, not the Timber carbine. Bought it brand new. I have a 1.5-4x Leupold on top of it. It's a awesome little rifle. It's light, fast handling, accurate, and plenty powerful. I find myself choosing it more than anything else I own for work under 150 yards.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

jayzbird said:


> Swamp Monster said:
> 
> 
> > I have a Winchester 94 Timber Carbine in .444 Marlin. quote]
> ...


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## jayzbird (May 19, 2005)

Swamp Monster said:


> jayzbird said:
> 
> 
> > They are a sweet rifle! One of my hunting partners has that same Big Bore. He uses the factory open sights with good success. You don't run accross many folks with them thats for sure. I always have my eye out for a Win 94 Big Bore in .375 Winchester but those that have them, don't seem to want to sell them, and those that do, want an arm and a leg for them!!:lol:
> ...


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

I haven't tried the Buffalo Bore stuff yet, though I've always wanted to. I also have not done any handloading for it either, I have the dies, just haven't got around to it yet. I've never loaded straight wall cartridges, so it will be a learning experience for me. With prices the way they are, I'm looking forward to it!


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## steveboss (Sep 4, 2002)

I thought I was the only one using it for deer, everyone always laughs and says it is way too big. All I have to say is I never had a deer take a step after I shot it and I have taken at least 20 deer with. Awesome gun.


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## MIoutdoorsjunkie (Oct 11, 2006)

steveboss said:


> I thought I was the only one using it for deer, everyone always laughs and says it is way too big. All I have to say is I never had a deer take a step after I shot it and I have taken at least 20 deer with. Awesome gun.


Everyone has their opinion about what is too big, what is too small etc.. The way I look at it... As long as you are not inhumanely killing an animal then what is the problem? I have hunted a few times with my Remington 300 win mag with ziess scope for deer in Michigan.. I got the same thing from alot of people "ohhh.. that is too much gun for this state" etc. I dont care. I have fun! I think the .444 with proper loads would be perfect for deer in MI. I might just head out and buy the Marlin 444 this weekend. That is if I dont find a nice used one before then. 

Jeff


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Here's one like Mine. I added an old school Pachmeyer White Line Recoil pad to add a little length to my stock, plus it gives it a little retro look. 
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=114202471

Here's a standard Marlin model 444 on Gunbroker. No .444 Guide Guns though.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=114391346

Ofcourse, I just had to look didn't I....
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=114092302


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## jayzbird (May 19, 2005)

Swamp Monster said:


> Here's one like Mine. I added an old school Pachmeyer White Line Recoil pad to add a little length to my stock, plus it gives it a little retro look.
> http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=114202471
> 
> Here's a standard Marlin model 444 on Gunbroker. No .444 Guide Guns though.
> ...


Buy it Swamp!!! Buy it!!! Then sell it to me for half... :lol:


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## tedshunter (Dec 27, 2004)

MIoutdoorsjunkie said:


> Everyone has their opinion about what is too big, what is too small etc.. The way I look at it... As long as you are not inhumanely killing an animal then what is the problem? I have hunted a few times with my Remington 300 win mag with ziess scope for deer in Michigan.. I got the same thing from alot of people "ohhh.. that is too much gun for this state" etc. I dont care. I have fun! I think the .444 with proper loads would be perfect for deer in MI. I might just head out and buy the Marlin 444 this weekend. That is if I dont find a nice used one before then.
> 
> Jeff


 I posted earlier that my buddy has one that he wants to get rid of.He has had it for quite a few years and it is in excellent shape.Not sure what he wants for it.If you are interested shoot me a P.M. and I can get you in touch with him.He lives in Warren.


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## MIoutdoorsjunkie (Oct 11, 2006)

pm sent. 


Everyone else. I live about 45 minutes north of Detroit. I am more than likely looking to make a purchase with a credit card for the gun and was wondering if anyone knew of a few gun shops locally (Northen suburbs of Detroit) that historically have good prices. Remember, the would have to be a Marlin dealer. Giving alot of consideration to a NIB Marlin 444 or 1865 in .45/70. I am not ruling out a used one but finding a good one, from a dealer that will accept credit cards, may be a bit of a problem. 

Thanks for all the help!
Jeff


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## WAUB-MUKWA (Dec 13, 2003)

troutchops said:


> I got a .450 Marlin guide gun this year and put a Leupold scope on it. I hunt in a cedar swamp and can't wait to use it. I shot a big ole' nine point last year with a 45/70, it dropped. I'm not one for tracking. I think all of these guns/calibers are great swamp/close quarter deer rifles. As in, 100 yards and in. They're maybe more firepower than you need, but that's part of the fun for me.


I got the .450 guide gun too instead of the .444. More choices to reload with. :evil:


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## jayzbird (May 19, 2005)

MIoutdoorsjunkie said:


> pm sent.
> 
> 
> Everyone else. I live about 45 minutes north of Detroit. I am more than likely looking to make a purchase with a credit card for the gun and was wondering if anyone knew of a few gun shops locally (Northen suburbs of Detroit) that historically have good prices. Remember, the would have to be a Marlin dealer. Giving alot of consideration to a NIB Marlin 444 or 1865 in .45/70. I am not ruling out a used one but finding a good one, from a dealer that will accept credit cards, may be a bit of a problem.
> ...


Jeff-

Williams Gunsight in Davison has 3 listed on their website on the used rack. It's about a 45 min drive from Romeo. Their phone # is (800) 530-9028. Ask for Joe he's a real nice guy and the guy I buy all my goodies from. BTW, they also take credit cards. Good luck!!


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## Hoppe's no.10 (Sep 16, 2007)

MIoutdoorsjunkie said:


> Hello all...
> 
> After reading a recent article in Woods and water news this caliber has sparked my intrest. I have been in the market for a new lever action deer slayer and have a few questions:
> 
> ...


While it's always great fun to when speculate over on the "best" caliber, rifle action, bullet weight, scope power and the like for slaying whitetails be it while sitting around a wood burning stove in a U.P. General Store, a fireplace in a cabin on the edge of the "Big Pigeon" forest or over the internet - the truth be told it doesn't take much to kill a whitetail, anything between a .243 Win. - and a 45/70 - regardless of action type or bullet weight is more than capable - if you make a good shot.

If you really want to be a year in and year out successful whitetail slayer you should become less concerned with catalog/marketing/manufacturers equipment and more concerned with the habits, range, feeding cycles, diurnal activities etc. of your quarry. Not as interesting, not as much fun to talk about and certainly not trying to become "Zen" but try and become "one" with your quarry as in attaining an understanding of the nature of that which you seek to kill as opposed to an understanding of ballistics etc. - your rewards, ultimately, will be much greater.

Hope this helps.

Hoppe's no. 10


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## MIoutdoorsjunkie (Oct 11, 2006)

Hoppe's no.10 said:


> While it's always great fun to when speculate over on the "best" caliber, rifle action, bullet weight, scope power and the like for slaying whitetails be it while sitting around a wood burning stove in a U.P. General Store, a fireplace in a cabin on the edge of the "Big Pigeon" forest or over the internet - the truth be told it doesn't take much to kill a whitetail, anything between a .243 Win. - and a 45/70 - regardless of action type or bullet weight is more than capable - if you make a good shot.
> 
> If you really want to be a year in and year out successful whitetail slayer you should become less concerned with catalog/marketing/manufacturers equipment and more concerned with the habits, range, feeding cycles, diurnal activities etc. of your quarry. Not as interesting, not as much fun to talk about and certainly not trying to become "Zen" but try and become "one" with your quarry as in attaining an understanding of the nature of that which you seek to kill as opposed to an understanding of ballistics etc. - your rewards, ultimately, will be much greater.
> 
> ...


Hoppe's no. 10... as always... well said. It is just alot of fun to talk guns, too big/too small, calibers, shot sizes, ballistics etc.. Gun shopping is also very fun!! ha ha 

Jayzbird... I called Williams earlier today and will probably head out there this weekend to look at some guns. Should be fun.

Thanks
Jeff


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## keweenaw Lung-buster (May 4, 2008)

.444 or .45/70? I have the .45/70 and it has been a great rifle - I think a better choice than the .444. Cost of ammo, as others have mentioned, has gone through the roof. If you reload I have a recipe for the .45/70. 

300gr. jhp with 42.5gr. of IMR 4227 powder. Zero in at 150 yards and this should put you about 4" high at 100 and about 5" low at 200 yds and enough umpf to knock down pretty much anything you shoot. The great thing is that you have the energy but at a slower velocity = excellent penetration and knock down power.

Not to throw water on the rocks, but another really nice round in a lever gun is the .35 Remington.


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## dsm54 (Feb 9, 2008)

I have the 94 black shadow in 444 marlin,it has a 1 in 12" twist rifled barrel. Only 700 made with with that twist. It will shoot 240 gr to 400 gr bullets. If you would like to know more about your 94 big bore go to leveractionrifles.com


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## dsm54 (Feb 9, 2008)

sorry thats leverguns.com


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