# Looking for a 9mm pistol.



## boutdun (Nov 6, 2010)

I'm next to Plainfield(high school?) if ya wanna shoot a Glock 26 with Crimson Trace Laser sights your welcome to try mine


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

Well, passed the CPL class; learned a few things, met some great instructors and improved my accuracy with my pistol a lot.

Now let the shopping begin before this money burns a hole in my pocket! ahahahah


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## 9mm Hi-Power (Jan 16, 2010)

oilcan said:


> My Glock 9mm likes to go porky hunting.


My 9mm Browning Hi-Power likes to go most everywhere I go .










9mm gets trashed a lot as being underpowered especially against so-called "meth-freaks" and the like. I've been involved with defensive handgun shooting for a number of years. Generally speaking it's not so much what you hit them with but *WHERE* you hit them. Personally I'd much rather take a 10mm or 45ACP bullet through the shoulder from someone who hasn't shot much than a 9mm hollow-point through my sternum from someone who has - if you get my drift. If you carry for defense of yourself and/or loved ones be more concerned with your shooting ability and comfort with and trust in your handgun as opposed to caliber. Shoot, shoot, shoot as much as you can and shoot as much as possible in diverse and stressful situations. Shoot strong hand only, shoot weak hand only, shoot kneeling, shoot around barriers, shoot prone, shoot in low light conditions, shoot while advancing, shoot while retreating. Take a defensive pistol shooting course, shoot in I.D.P.A. (International Defensive Pistol Assoc.) but again shoot, shoot, shoot and then shoot some more. Your life may depend on it. 

Hoppe's no.10


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

exactly some of the things discussed in the class today. One of the primary reasons why i want a 9mm....cheap ammo. 

Do many of you guys carry while you are out in the woods bird hunting?


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## 9mm Hi-Power (Jan 16, 2010)

Rugergundog said:


> exactly some of the things discussed in the class today. One of the primary reasons why i want a 9mm....cheap ammo.
> 
> Do many of you guys carry while you are out in the woods bird hunting?


I carry most everywhere but ALWAYS when I'm afield - bird hunting or otherwise.

Hoppe's no.10


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## skidoojc (Aug 28, 2006)

I'm going to also go with the XD I shot a bunch and went with one. There safe easy to clean and reliable.


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## chamookman (Sep 1, 2003)

Another vote for the XD. I've run MANY rounds thru Mine and never have had a problem. The 9mm ammo is very affordable. My primary use is for the range (XD) as I carry a Wilson 1911 daily. Yes - there's always a handgun under My strap-vest when I'm Bird hunting. C-man


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## Induna (Apr 19, 2007)

9mm Hi-Power said:


> My 9mm Browning Hi-Power likes to go most everywhere I go .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree with every thing you said. In the real world very few people if any will take these courses. Even those that do most will forget everything they learned and spray and pray in a time of need. I've seen first hand the effects bullets from 5.56 mm up to .50 cal. have on people and by God bigger is better when you factor in the fact that most hits will not be perfect 10's


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## oilcan (Feb 10, 2007)

9mm Hi-Power said:


> My 9mm Browning Hi-Power likes to go most everywhere I go .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 +2 I shot on a pistol league with a bunch of cops that had the big guns and most of them could'nt hit ****. So give me the gun I can shoot well and carry easy because alot of them don't and you will be much better off. A nice little 38 hammerless revolver would work good, carry in your pocket easy.


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## milmo1 (Nov 9, 2005)

I bought a Beretta 92 in stainless, and its a nice shooting gun, but not a real carry gun. You _could _get it in a 96 which is .40 cal. 

I found the best carry for me (when I do actually carry) was a Ruger Sp 101 in .357. Plenty of topping power, bobbed hammer, can shoot .38's, no automatic b.s. to tangle with - big "pop" when the trigger is pulled.


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## Brittany Ben (Apr 19, 2010)

Any of the 'major' brands will work well for you. The most important factor is the 'guy behind the trigger'.

Try to be blind to brands. I don't care if it's a beretta, Sig, S&W, Glock, etc... pick the gun that points where you want to shoot, period. Handle a lot of them and pick the one that feels right. I can't tell you how many guys I run across that bought the 'brand' instead of the gun that fits and they cant hit *****.

All that matters is if you can hit the target. 9 vs 40 vs 45 vs 380 is moot if you can't put the rounds on target. Get the gun that feels right and that you'll put the most time in shooting to make sure you can hit where you shoot.

And, if you're going to carry a semi-auto, be sure to do your maintenance and make shure it's always ready to rock. A jam is a bad thing in a sticky situation.

-Ben


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## #8 shot (Aug 27, 2009)

Another vote for the XD 9mm. Love that gun. But my carry gun is a .380 LCP. Not the most powerful, but I have gotten pretty good with it in the 20 yards range. Buy the one that fits your hand the best and shoot alot with it.


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## Topshelf (May 24, 2005)

I read this from quite a few guys here to be blind to manufacturer. Good Advice IMO. So is to go and shoot different brands and calibers. You will know when you find what is right for you and what you can shoot.


Personally I shoot a 1911 Kimber in 45acp. Why? 
1 It fits my hand. 
2 Always goes boom when I pull the trigger You get what you pay for. Dont go cheap if your going to use it for self defence.
3 I can hit the target right where I'm aiming most times.
4 45 acp is a big chunk of lead and copper


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

Had an opportunity to work with a few models today. The Taurus 24/7 felt best in my hand and for quick reference point of aim. Though it is a big larger than I really wanted for a cc weapon the feel and even the trigger pull were what i liked. I did put several in my hand to grip without looking at the model and the T24/7 felt best each time. I picked up my PP and will take ownership of the gun today. It is a 9mm so i will be able to afford plenty of practice time with the weapon.


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## Ray Adams (Feb 17, 2006)

> A 9 mm will stop a normal person not so well on a crazed or drugged up person. If you want to save yourself and or family go with a 10 mm or 40. If you go with the 9 mm and HAVE to use it DO NOT STOP PULLING THE TRIGGER UNTILL IT GOES CLICK!!!


It is 100% shot placement. A 9mm in the right spot will "stop" the same as a .45. It is give and take - capacity vs. so-called knock down power. In a perfect world, you'd just carry a 50 BMG, but of course, that's not possible either. Buy something you can and will carry and become proficient with it, which means shooting a lot - and not just standing in a booth.

Happy hunting.

Ray





http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359281#ixzz185SOwgVR​


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## SalmonBum (Feb 28, 2001)

I don't care how good a shot you are, if you are put in in a situation that you need to pull your firearm, it will shake the nerves of even the calmest shooter. By buying a small caliber with the thought you are a good shot is not the smartest thing to do. Taking the extra split second you need for correct bullet palcement of a small round, that extra time could mean life and death. I would much rather have the option of a larger round not hitting the best location, but hit the target non-the less.

It all reality, how many of you that shoot a small round have had to shoot someone, and of that, how many have hit the spot they aimed? Shooting at the range and having to use it on a carjacker are two complete different senarios. Only the people that have been that prediciment can tell me,"yup, I pulled my 9 and put him down. Bullet hit right in the heart". My guess is I will hear " It happened so fast, I didn't know what to do.... I just started firing".


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## ausable riverboat (May 10, 2010)

The state police went from 9 mm to 40 cal that should tell you something the CO's always carried 40 cal. I carry a 45 acp the only reason I carry it is because they don't make a 46


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## oilcan (Feb 10, 2007)

Get a 44 more Power:evil: maybe the muzzle blast will put them down.


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

I do understand the debate of accuracy vs power. All that said the 9mm was the best comprimise of cost, accuracy and power for me at this time.

I will be able to afford more ammunition to practice and become a better shot with a weapon with recoil that i can manage better.

I am a good shot with a rifle and not too shabby with a shotgun but do recognize my pistol skills are lacking for what i consider acceptable. After shooting my 9mm a good deal and when my skills improve to my standars i may consider upgrading to a .45. But for now the 9mm is what i purchased to work with and suspect (hope) if i do need to use it 1 of the 17 rounds the mag hold will be enough to save my life.

If everything plays out the way i hope it will be nothing more than a range gun and i will never have to fire it on another person.

.....in the end should be another winter hobby i can take up to keep busy over the cold months.

Bob


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## Dawg (Jan 17, 2003)

The 92FS is simple and reliable. "The average reliability of all M9 pistols tested at Beretta U.S.A. is 17,500 rounds without a stoppage." (continuous fire)

If it isn't in the right spot I don't care what it is. At .40 you're talking about +1.16mm and at .45 you're +2.43mm over 9.


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

i suppose a similiar arguement could be said about guys upland hunting with 20g vs 12g.


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## Topshelf (May 24, 2005)

I agree with salmonbun 100 %. Until your in that situation you wont know how you will react. Personally I dont think you can duplicate it in practice either. You can shoot a million rounds and still miss when under extreme stress. 

Ray Adams said "In a perfect world, you'd just carry a 50 BMG, but of course, that's not possible either." You could always go to the Desert Eagle in 50 cal  Tough to conceal but would make a big *** hole. :yikes:


ausable riverboat said "The state police went from 9 mm to 40 cal that should tell you something the CO's always carried 40 cal." 
I'm sure alot of the caliber change mentality was based on the current state of this country's drug trade and economy. When the career bad guys have body armour, full auto black rifles and enough drugs in them they dont feel pain, you have to step up your choice of weapon. I'm sure thats why most LEO's now have AR15's in the vehicle instead of just shotguns.


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## ausable riverboat (May 10, 2010)

The MSP went from 9mm to 40 cal because the 9mm just was not enough gun. They carry 40 cal Sig I have shot both the 9 nad the 40cannot tell much difference in them just the stopping powed. MSP carries a 40 cal sig a 38 backup. In each car they carry a 12 ga shotgun and a Colt M-4, 223 cal


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## SalmonBum (Feb 28, 2001)

All the cops I know carry 40's as duty weapons. As for price of ammo, I can get 40 for the same price, if not cheaper than 9mm. the fram of the M & P 40 is the same a the 9mm. However, with the 40 I can buy a storm lake 9mm barrel that drops right into the 40 and buy a 9mm clip and have a 9 and a 40. On top of that, I can swap out for an OEM .357 sig barrel and use the same clip as the 40 cal round. So on top of the purchace price of the 40, for another $225 I can have a 9mm and a 357 sig . Not alot of money for 3 different guns.


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

If one is better than the others why would you need 3 different calibers?

I agree with stress, anxiety, nerves coming into play and messing with accuracy. Heck i can shoot my bow at a target 40+ yards away all day long and put them in a 3" circle.........but place that damn deer -20 in front of me and i screw the shots up.......


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## SalmonBum (Feb 28, 2001)

Rugergundog said:


> If one is better than the others why would you need 3 different calibers?


If for some reason, one ammo is harder to find than the other. Or, just the fun of shooting a .357 sig once in awhile


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## Topshelf (May 24, 2005)

Rugergundog said:


> If one is better than the others why would you need 3 different calibers?
> 
> 
> I agree with stress, anxiety, nerves coming into play and messing with accuracy. Heck i can shoot my bow at a target 40+ yards away all day long and put them in a 3" circle.........but place that damn deer -20 in front of me and i screw the shots up.......


So now add in the fact that the target may be shooting back at you.....
yeah the odds of missing go up by factors of 10 in my book


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## Petronius (Oct 13, 2010)

SalmonBum said:


> All the cops I know carry 40's as duty weapons. As for price of ammo, I can get 40 for the same price, if not cheaper than 9mm. the fram of the M & P 40 is the same a the 9mm. However, with the 40 I can buy a storm lake 9mm barrel that drops right into the 40 and buy a 9mm clip and have a 9 and a 40. On top of that, I can swap out for an OEM .357 sig barrel and use the same clip as the 40 cal round. So on top of the purchace price of the 40, for another $225 I can have a 9mm and a 357 sig . Not alot of money for 3 different guns.


Sounds like your talking about the SIG Sauer P229. There's also a 22 LR conversion.


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## SalmonBum (Feb 28, 2001)

petronius said:


> Sounds like your talking about the SIG Sauer P229. There's also a 22 LR conversion.


No, actually my SW M&P 40c


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

I have a little Walter P22 that I have for plinking (.22lr). Really fun to shoot little rascal........and cheap cheap cheap to shoot all dang day. Was funny in my CPL class guys were talking about the cost of ammo for the day....i chuckled...yea whole $3 ahahaha.


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## SalmonBum (Feb 28, 2001)

Rugergundog said:


> I have a little Walter P22 that I have for plinking (.22lr). Really fun to shoot little rascal........and cheap cheap cheap to shoot all dang day. Was funny in my CPL class guys were talking about the cost of ammo for the day....i chuckled...yea whole $3 ahahaha.


I have been looking at that gun for the girlfriend. Looks like a nice little plinker. We had 3 Ruger 22's in class and all of them jammed multiple times.


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## Ray Adams (Feb 17, 2006)

Bottom line is that a pistol is a defensive weapon, whereas a rifle is more an offensive weapon. Yes, either could be used defensively, but when you're going to take it to your enemy (in a SWAT team, military, etc.), you take a rifle, not a pistol. 

Remove the words _always_ and _never_. There isn't a weapon out there that never jams. There isn't a weapon that always works every time. There is too much going on and too much that can go wrong. I've seen people on countless occasions who just plain forget to chamber a round. That will give you a malfunction every time, no matter how reliable or "hard hitting" the round itself is.

Having a choice of handgun rounds, I'd go with a .45 over anything else. But if you could ask the many thousands of ghosts that have fallen to NATO 9mm FMJ's if they cared if whether they were shot by an MP5, a Beretta 92 FS, or anything else. Dead is dead. 

Talk to some people in the know and have put their money where their mouth is. I'm talking about soldiers who have been overseas, cops who have been in gun fights, or CIA guys if you can find them. :SHOCKED:

Ray


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

SalmonBum said:


> I have been looking at that gun for the girlfriend. Looks like a nice little plinker. We had 3 Ruger 22's in class and all of them jammed multiple times.


Its a great little gun. My wife LOVES shooting it. Very tiny in the hand but just dang fun to plink. Mine is very reliable with good ammunition. Mine was not functioning the best during my range time on Sunday. The was dirty (is dirty) was FREEEZING cold out and i was shooting the cheepest nobrand .22lr ammo Gander had on the shelf. When i shoot CCI or the Winchester X ammo or those Remington gold tip...stingers or whatever they call them my P22 has been flawless even when dirty.

I read someplace a bit back that the P22 was the handgun used in some initial training stuff for the FBI or CIA.


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## oilcan (Feb 10, 2007)

Some of you guys act like he is going to the wild wild west , highly unlikely it will ever be pulled, but if it is go for a doubletap centermass. And get a good laywer.


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

I don't think anyone hopes to ever have to use the weapon to take a life! The people who do i suspect are not posting on this forum. I don't think any of us are yerning for some post traumatic stress disorder therapy.

*Wildwest?* Do you keep up to date on the local, state and world news regarding crime, terror and insanity? I work in the criminal justice field and deal with it DAILY firsthand.......with juveniles mind you!

_I suspect if you or your loved ones are ever in a situation that either you being armed or a legal armed citizen being there assist...you may change your tune; regarding "wildwest".......because its worst!_

I would encourage you research the state of or State regarding the level (or lack of) of local, county and state police actively working any given area at any given time. Im not sure of your location but i live in a very VERY high crime city; Saginaw; region of the state. (mind you Flint (20 min away) just eclipsed the 1986 homicide record this year +65).

Regarding your statement with reference to a lawyer, that is a constitutional right that would for sure be best to utilize to protect yourself in the event of having to draw ones weapon. But i suspect you have elluded to an old way of thinking of people being paranoid of civil law, etc from a victim or his(her) family. I would encourage you to go to the michigan attourney general page and read up on a few law changes regarding personal protection by law abiding citizens that was put in place in 2006. In my area of the state there has been several shootings of criminals by CPL holders in fear of their lives in recent years.......all, I repeat *all* were found to be warranted use of the weapon and not a single charge or such was imposed on the CPL holders. Responsible MI gun owners and CPL holders have resulted in restrictions being lessened regarding many aspects of the CPL (CCW).
Arizona made some changes to its CCW laws and within 15 months the level of crime statistically dropped! Europe revoked citizen ownership...crime went up!
Armed responsible citizens do help detour crime, proven fact time in and time out.

Bob


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## joker1234 (Oct 5, 2007)

Asked myself this question a few years back for several reasons in the field.
1. defense from 2 legged predators ( found a meth lab in the woods)
2. defense from 4 legged predators (porkies,Yotes,Bobcat)


In the end several factors came into play. The first being safety. The need for a safe gun when moving in the brush was fore most. The glocks with the trigger safety. They were the first to be looked at however the trigger could still accidental manipulated to allow the striker pin to be released and a accidental discharge to happen. The XD's have a palm safety and trigger safety both have to be depressed to allow the striker to be released.

Second was weight. The sub compact models were the choice here. I decided on a XD 9 mm sub. The gun has works flawlessly on any ammo it is feed. It is a good CC gun as well as an open carry gun in the field. It allows for 17 rounds with the extended mag. It gives an added comfort when going into the woods. In the end it is what you feel most comfortable with, but practice practice practice makes you perfect. Shoot well and shoot often.


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## oilcan (Feb 10, 2007)

Rugergundog said:


> I don't think anyone hopes to ever have to use the weapon to take a life! The people who do i suspect are not posting on this forum. I don't think any of us are yerning for some post traumatic stress disorder therapy.
> 
> *Wildwest?* Do you keep up to date on the local, state and world news regarding crime, terror and insanity? I work in the criminal justice field and deal with it DAILY firsthand.......with juveniles mind you!
> 
> ...


 The way you wrote that looks like you should have got the 45 with a banana cilp, good luck.


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

oilcan said:


> The way you wrote that looks like you should have got the 45 with a banana cilp, good luck.


Criticize my internet grammar all you like....your IQ i apparently high enough that you understand the message and your faults in thinking.

But i trust you will be alright; you must reside in that protective crime free bubble that i have yet to find. Maybe you could help me and others find it.......we could start a whole new white fence community.

Its okay buddy.........but do understand anger is one of the first steps of accepting one is wrong. I could schedule a individual counseling session with you for a nominal fee.....of course you would have to share the details of this crime free area you know of.......perhaps it holds endless coveys of grouse as well. Seeing you are in denial and really don't feel the need to be in the presence of a CPL holder.......flip to Dr. Phil, he airs on local stations around 4pm; check it out, he discusses it often. I can provide you a link if you need.

bounce pass

btw-since you are pointing fingers at internet grammar; my sidearm has a clip...i don't know what a "cilp" is.


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

CBS Early show today

School board member shoots at school board members on camera, Panama City.

Guy holds casino at gun point robs for over million.


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## oilcan (Feb 10, 2007)

I have had my Cpl for 15 yrs so I don't need your history lesson. No anger on my end I don't know where you came up with that logic. Working in your field and where you live I don't blame you one bit for getting yours either. I can help you out your area is one of the worst in the nation, move. Since you watch Dr. Phil maybe you should clue us in. The wildwest comment was a joke, but since you did not take it that way, oh well. Like I said good luck.


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## SalmonBum (Feb 28, 2001)

Last Friday I ran to Flint for something. The 1st thing my GF said when we got in the truck: "You got your gun?"

Hopefully, I never have to use. But if that time comes and I don't have it, things would look bad for me.


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## J-Lee (Jul 11, 2000)

It is funny, I worked in Flint for 34 years without an issue. These days, I find myself going to Saginaw, if I need to go to the big box stores. Who would have thought I would feel safer in Saginaw.:SHOCKED:


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

oilcan said:


> I have had my Cpl for 15 yrs so I don't need your history lesson.


Buddy........its okay. I can forgive your need to joke about a relm that many of us don't take lightly; that being our right to own and carry a weapon, and our personal safety.

I am far from an expert (very far); i would like to direct you toward refresher course regarding your CPL may be a good idea...even though you feel you don't need it.....heck having been a holder for 15 years you may be able to teach some NRA instructors a thing or two.


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## Firemedic (Apr 5, 2005)

Rugergundog said:


> my sidearm has a clip...i don't know what a "cilp" is.


Since we are on the topic, your sidearm has a magazine, not a clip or a cilp. Just sayin'


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## Topshelf (May 24, 2005)

Not trying to hijack the thread, but I have a question for all the CPL holders out there. I just got my CPL about a month ago. Have carried a few places but not very often yet.

So my question is did you start carrying everyday as soon as you got your permit or did you have to get use to it and make an effort to do so? 

I guess part of my issue carrying every day is that I cannot at work or even have my gun in my car in the parking lot. I'm at work 9-10 hours a day. I get home dont really dont go any where, so its not really convienient for me. On the weekends I try to carry when I go out but so far it hasnt been much because its usually just out to dinner to a bar/resturant (not acceptable).


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## SalmonBum (Feb 28, 2001)

When I firss got mine, I carried it just about anywhere I could just to get a feel for it. BUT, I didn't carry it chambered for the 1st couple of weeks. I want to familiarize myself with the holster, concealment with differnt clothes, access to it, travelling in a car, etc.... It's now always loaded and ready to go. I don't bring mine to work for the same reason as you. But it I go out afterwards I try to take it with me as much as possible. Sometimes I forget, but the GF always reminds me to grab it . I am on the road every weekend and when I leave the house its always with me. When I'm on my boat in the summer its with me. Summer months its tought to conceal a 40, when you live on a boat wearing a t-shirt and shorts .

BTW, my M&P can be bought with many different type of safteys, but I chose NONE (except for tigger saftey). I don't have kids,and the lab that doesn't have thumbs, so I'm not concerned. IF I ever need it, I'm sure the 1/10th of a second it takes to click a saftey off may mean my life. I just want to pull and fire.


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## 9mm Hi-Power (Jan 16, 2010)

SalmonBum said:


> BTW, my M&P can be bought with many different type of safteys, but I chose NONE (except for tigger saftey). I don't have kids,and the lab that doesn't have thumbs, so I'm not concerned. IF I ever need it, I'm sure the 1/10th of a second it takes to click a saftey off may mean my life. I just want to pull and fire.


A handgun safety (at least the type of safeties on SA only handguns like the Browning HP and various 1911 style pistols) is not a hindrance in the least and should not add any time to the discharge. Properly done the safety should be pushed off by the strong hand thumb as soon the gun is out of the holster and being moved laterally across the shooters body and certainly * BEFORE* the sight picture is attained. It should go without saying that this is done with the trigger finger outside of the trigger guard. Long before (relatively speaking) the sight picture is attained the safety is off. The same procedure can be safely employed when firing with retention (be sure and keep your weak hand aside when doing this or else :yikes:.)

The important thing is to find a handgun that you are comfortable with and one you can come to trust regardless of safeties, lack of safeties, DA, SA etc. Trust comes with an awful lot of practice and shooting both live and dry. Doing this will insure that the safe and fast operation of your handgun will be imbedded in your muscle memory. Muscle memory plays a very important role in defensive handgun shooting. When I was involved with my local public safety dept. and shooting on the dept. range the RO emphasized over and over to me that one should stick to one particular "style" of handgun for carry i.e. location of safety, do not carry DA one day and SA the next and the like. If you carry a variety of handgun styles your "muscle memory" may fail you just when you need it - perhaps in SB's "1/10th of a second."

Hoppe's no.10


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## SalmonBum (Feb 28, 2001)

9mm Hi-Power said:


> Handgun safeties (at least the type of safeties on SA only handguns like the Browning HP and various 1911 style pistols) is not a hindrance in the least and should not add any time to the discharge. Properly done the safety should be pushed off by the strong hand thumb as soon the gun is out of the holster and being moved laterally across the shooters body and certainly * BEFORE* the sight picture is attained. It should go without saying that this is done with the trigger finger outside of the trigger guard. Long before (relatively speaking) the sight picture is attained the safety is off. The same procedure can be safely employed when firing with retention (be sure and keep your weak hand aside when doing this or else :yikes:.)
> 
> Hoppe's no.10


Way I look at it, the one less thing to worry about, the better. As with always, there is that "one time".


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## GWPguy (Feb 16, 2004)

I carry a Kel-Tek 9mm. The main reason I bought it was it was the lightest 9 on the market at the time. It is so small and light, you barely know it is there. 

I carry it all the time in the woods and have put a few deer down with it. (The deer were shot all ready, I just put them out of their missery)

I love that little gun. The big drawback is the stiff trigger pull.


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## oilcan (Feb 10, 2007)

Rugergundog said:


> Buddy........its okay. I can forgive your need to joke about a relm that many of us don't take lightly; that being our right to own and carry a weapon, and our personal safety.
> 
> I am far from an expert (very far); i would like to direct you toward refresher course regarding your CPL may be a good idea...even though you feel you don't need it.....heck having been a holder for 15 years you may be able to teach some NRA instructors a thing or two.


 Since you just took the course you should know that every so often you have to take the course again to keep your card current. My card tells me I am good for a couple more years . I teach hunters safety that is enough for me, and I do take it serious.


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