# St. Joe and Grand River Ladders are open



## Jay Wesley (Mar 2, 2009)

The ladders all openned today March 1st, 2011. Saw some fish moving through already.


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## cireofmi (Feb 13, 2001)

I didn't know they closed the ladder in Grand Rapids.


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## R_T (Feb 20, 2009)

Thanks for the info Jay.


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## RAD FISH (Oct 17, 2006)

cireofmi said:


> I didn't know they closed the ladder in Grand Rapids.



:: Very rarely has it ever been closed. As a matter of fact the only time I have ever seen it closed was years ago. I happened to be there when the DNR guy was closing it and he told me they were closing it because a rare strain of steelhead ( skams ) were getting into the trout streams above and eating the smolts and stream trout. We did have a good amount of summer runs that year below the dam.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

Summer Strains: Rogue, Umpqua, Sillets, Skamania, all of wich I believe were released in MI. and naturally reproduce.


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## Speyday (Oct 1, 2004)

The only summer running strain that were introduced were skamania;named after a hatchery and county of the same name in Washington along the Washougal River. Natural reproduction is minimal; (a point to debate); but from a biological DNR perspective, doesn't register on the radar and isn't strong enough to be called a self-sustaining population.

If the DNR told you that there was a concern about unusual predation and was blocking fish passage, that would be very interesting to learn more about; as this sounds like one of the perpetual myths about how trout populations cant co-exist with other species. Im not doubting what you heard. But, if that is true, I hope they removed any pike and bass, too. We would not want to have any blatant "food chain" or survival-of-the-fittest occuring (sic).


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## RAD FISH (Oct 17, 2006)

:: His exact words where there is an unusual amount of a rare strain of steelhead running the Grand this year and they are damaging the trout streams above the dam. Thats when I asked him how? And he said they where eating the planters and stream trout. How the DNR knew of this or had proof is beyond me.


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## Jay Wesley (Mar 2, 2009)

6th street dam remains open through the winter. Webber is closed due to a Consumers Energy Agreement. Some of the others are sometimes closed to keep debris from getting stuck in them in the winter.

As far as closing 6th street to keep a summer strain from going up, I am not aware of that being an issue. Perhaps someone had a concern many years ago, but we do not now.


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## MickL (Dec 16, 2003)

Thanks for the additional info Jay..... interesting.


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## jrv (Nov 11, 2008)

It was probably some guy saying he was a CO, closed it and then fished there the next morning.


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## RAD FISH (Oct 17, 2006)

jrv said:


> It was probably some guy saying he was a CO, closed it and then fished there the next morning.



:: Ya cause just anyone can walk up and close the ladder any time they want. It was with out a doubt DNR personal. Not to say people haven't clogged the top opening with every thing from boards to bed springs on many occasions but that's a whole different story. And actually clogging the top chute to keep the fish below the dam is stupid and does not work, all it does is make them stack up like cored wood in the very top pool, they don't go back down the ladder. The local kids have been doing crap like this for years. I've even herd rumors of 5 gallon buckets of chlorine being anchored in the ladder before. I'm sure that kept fish away from the ladder for a period of time but once again that is a very stupid thing to do and if anyone ever gets caught doing this I hope they throw the book at them.


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## Gooseanator26 (Mar 9, 2010)

I believe it 


On the east side I see little kids though the summer throw old bikes near the quarry hole to snag people up so i don't see why they wouldn't try blocking up the fish ladder.


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

METTLEFISH said:


> Summer Strains: Rogue, Umpqua, Sillets, Skamania, all of wich I believe were released in MI. and naturally reproduce.


I don't know about natural reproduction, and would leave it to Jay for that answer, but I do remember the experiment in the 80's where those strains were tried.


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## cireofmi (Feb 13, 2001)

I knew they closed the Webber Dam fish ladder and I believe they close Lyons Dam fish ladder also. I know there is a fish ladder on the first dam on the Thornapple River, but I believe they don't open that at all. I really doubt they would do very good above that dam.


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## jrv (Nov 11, 2008)

RAD FISH said:


> :: Ya cause just anyone can walk up and close the ladder any time they want. It was with out a doubt DNR personal. Not to say people haven't clogged the top opening with every thing from boards to bed springs on many occasions but that's a whole different story. And actually clogging the top chute to keep the fish below the dam is stupid and does not work, all it does is make them stack up like cored wood in the very top pool, they don't go back down the ladder. The local kids have been doing crap like this for years. I've even herd rumors of 5 gallon buckets of chlorine being anchored in the ladder before. I'm sure that kept fish away from the ladder for a period of time but once again that is a very stupid thing to do and if anyone ever gets caught doing this I hope they throw the book at them.


Radfish, I should have put a :lol: behind my statement because I was half joking. I posted it because I have heard of several people doing what you said above, blocking the ladder and then fishing. Several times it was a problem in Portland.


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## Drisc13 (May 6, 2009)

grand trib I know gets blocked quite often...seem like they're big fans of Jim Bedford


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## MickL (Dec 16, 2003)

> grand trib I know gets blocked quite often...seem like they're big fans of Jim Bedford


Yes!...... I've heard that is where they list the names of their heros.:lol:

And speaking of Portland, I too have seen lots of junk in the upper end of that ladder.:sad:


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## Jay Wesley (Mar 2, 2009)

Our crews do a great job keeping the ladders open. However, there are always selfish people out there trying to block fish movement. We have a lot of problems with that unnamed trib. It was open as of this week, but we always find something blocking it. 

We could use the help from you anglers out there to keep it open or report when you see someone blocking it.


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## riverman (Jan 9, 2002)

Jay Wesley said:


> Our crews do a great job keeping the ladders open. However, there are always selfish people out there trying to block fish movement. We have a lot of problems with that unnamed trib. It was open as of this week, but we always find something blocking it.
> 
> We could use the help from you anglers out there to keep it open or report when you see someone blocking it.


Why not just remove the dam and make that stream the jewel it could be? that place is a joke.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

I know I catch Steelies w/ definate signs of Strain specificity. Is there any reason to believe the Skamanias in the Betsie system are not viable ?. None of the tried strains are crosses, therefore they should have the same capability to reproduce as the strains that were introduced in the late 1800's. It is believed Summer strains enter the system's earlier to facilitate their trips upstream, some as far as Idaho. Most do not spawn until early the following spring.


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