# Quiet here in the Upland forum



## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

I'll take a stab at getting some life in here again.
How is the training going this year?How are the dogs doing?
This is the time of year to make progress on the dog.

I'm currently working on strength, endurance, and started the breaking process and I am looking to have my first fully broke dog with high spirits. 








Getting better and looking good







youtube.com


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

Pigeon training in the back yard seems to have born fruit Monday as dog pointed birds and didn't creep in. However dog has also lost intensity in pointing. Older dog hasnt really hunted pigeons in a few years. Over yard training on pigeons has it's consequences I guess. Two more weeks until freedom.


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## Full_Draw_Killer (Jan 10, 2014)

She's looking good man!

I was able to gun break my 7mo old pup 2 weeks ago, she's got a nice point. I'll probably show here a few more birds here and there over the next few months and cut her off before she figures out the game of planted birds and head straight into wilds.


__
http://instagr.am/p/CQFHnDnllYX/

My year and half old female saw a lot of wilds last season from age 9mo to a year after being gun broke. She pointed a few, but still had tons of pup in her and didn't know how to handle birds, but that was ok. All of those birds contacts are finally showing as she's now matured and starting to handle birds with her nose in the air rather than on the ground - I'm real excited for her this season, she's got a lot of style and works nice in a field. Not the biggest runner but works with me vs making large casts, and because of this she's always running into birds where I put her. She loves to retrieve and I got her cleaned up and looking good on it this spring (video below), she's just a real fun dog to work with overall.









Uplander on Instagram: "Before Ember goes back to bird work this summer I’ve been working her through Force Fetch to clean up her retrieve. She’s got a real high drive to fetch to begin with so it’s been an easy process! She’s now in a spot where I’ve been trying to advance her to marks and Fetch/Force to a pile. Her she is running a few lines in the yard to 5 bumpers consecutively. Ember is a liver Brittany, age 1 year 4 months! #chasingtheflush #uplander #brittany #brittanyspaniel #birddog #retriever #brittanysdoitbetter #retriever #fetch #huntingdog #workingdog #versatile #labradorretriever #germanshorthairedpointer #gsp #projectupland"


Uplander shared a post on Instagram: "Before Ember goes back to bird work this summer I’ve been working her through Force Fetch to clean up her retrieve. She’s got a real high drive to fetch to begin with so it’s been an easy process! She’s now in a spot where I’ve been trying to advance her to...




www.instagram.com





As far as my 4 year old, he's good to go and just running him to keep him conditioned.

I finally got around to going through all the footage from last season, and doing so really got me in the mood for getting back out there - video below - First half is mostly woodcock, second half is all grouse. Days are getting shorter and Fall is on my mind!






Cheers!


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## Mark4486 (Oct 14, 2015)

it is quiet here maybe we can talk about the guy that's selling red setter pups with no papers that joined 15 hours ago....lol


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

I guess that's yet another problem set birds is that dogs lose their natural incentive to ground scent. Of course, the reason it's natural is because it's effective for finding birds that got to where they are going by walking across the ground as opposed to plopped there by a human. It also teaches them to ground scent you.

I don't think anyone has any problem finding Brittany that ground scent well. I remember reading an article a few years back about an old timer who selected setters who would ground scent well and said many setters wouldn't do it. But I told that to my grandfather who had many setters and he said they followed ground scent.


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## sportsman98 (Dec 6, 2010)

Going to start conditioning soon. Lucky enough to have property with grouse on it so even a conditioning run can have a bird contact.


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## cwk33041 (Dec 30, 2013)

Ive been trying to prepare to run a senior hunt test sometime this year. However, my girl's water work has been a bit of struggle. Trying to get her to tread water for a cast has been tough. When I try to "whistle sit" her on the water for a cast she tends to swim back to me. So, from here I have went back to ground work to ensure I have the casting on land locked in (been running the double T, Double Marks with Blinds, ect). She should be back in the water this week.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

Scenting is a personal preference.
The deal is a dog that carries it's head high builds a keener nose,knocks less birds,and is steadier and staunch.They also leave more space between them and the bird which equates to less pressure on game.
For these types Pheasants can be difficult.


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## U.P.Grouse Chaser (Dec 27, 2018)

My Shorthair was Diagnosed with Lymes last week. I had switched back to Bravecto this spring for Tick control. I shied away from Soresto Collars after reading about the 1753 dog deaths. She hasn't been out of the yard since April 3rd. Last Tuesday she started to display a limp by Wednesday am she could barely walk. Took her to vet he diagnosed lymes and put her on doxycycline. She was back to normal by Saturday afternoon . The vet figures we caught it early. as she was in his office 2 wks prior for ofa certification of her hips and elbows Every thing looked good at the time . The vet did recommend Soresto Collars. and he said I could use both the Bravecto and Soresto collars concurrently , as they were different classes of drugs and it wouldn't negatively impact the dog.


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## Lucky Dog (Jul 4, 2004)

shaffe48b said:


> I guess that's yet another problem set birds is that dogs lose their natural incentive to ground scent. Of course, the reason it's natural is because it's effective for finding birds that got to where they are going by walking across the ground as opposed to plopped there by a human. It also teaches them to ground scent you.
> 
> I don't think anyone has any problem finding Brittany that ground scent well. I remember reading an article a few years back about an old timer who selected setters who would ground scent well and said many setters wouldn't do it. But I told that to my grandfather who had many setters and he said they followed ground scent.


Not sure I follow what you are trying to say.

Are you saying you want a bird dog to ground scent and track?


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## gundogguy (Oct 5, 2008)

35 years of summer training always felt that was when you could make good dogs. In all that time I do not believe I ever saw a Springer or Cocker and we are talking 100's of dogs of mine and other Spanielers. I think the difference was we planted pigeons with their heads up. Birds were free to move about in the cover. As for volunteer birds, handle that just like a scene in wild bird field. Always figured when hunting or trialing, the dog had a job to do and so did the handler/trainer under all circumstances. Though I'm sure we were a wee bit quieter around the dogs and birds.

hal


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## Mark4486 (Oct 14, 2015)

gundogguy said:


> 35 years of summer training always felt that was when you could make good dogs. In all that time I do not believe I ever saw a Springer or Cocker and we are talking 100's of dogs of mine and other Spanielers. I think the difference was we planted pigeons with their heads up. Birds were free to move about in the cover. As for volunteer birds, handle that just like a scene in wild bird field. Always figured when hunting or trialing, the dog had a job to do and so did the handler/trainer under all circumstances. Though I'm sure we were a wee bit quieter around the dogs and birds.
> 
> hal


how did you get the birds to not fly back to the coup if they were planted with heads up?


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## Gsphunteronpoint1 (Mar 8, 2018)

We have an appointment with a orthopedic surgeon July 15th for what is believed to be a torn CCL. So it’s going to be a long year. And a deposit mailed in for a pup next year.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

cwk33041 said:


> Ive been trying to prepare to run a senior hunt test sometime this year. However, my girl's water work has been a bit of struggle. Trying to get her to tread water for a cast has been tough. When I try to "whistle sit" her on the water for a cast she tends to swim back to me. So, from here I have went back to ground work to ensure I have the casting on land locked in (been running the double T, Double Marks with Blinds, ect). She should be back in the water this week.
> View attachment 773386
> View attachment 773387


Keep at it!
I have a good routine for that issue


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## gundogguy (Oct 5, 2008)

Mark4486 said:


> how did you get the birds to not fly back to the coup if they were planted with heads up?


Depending on the dog and the situation the handler would either say "Yes" which means shoot the bird for the steady dog and set up a great long mark. Or "No" donot shoot for reasons only known by the handler. I my case when I did not want a bird shot I may have working with a dog that needed the confidence finding flushing and "owning" that bird. And also learning not every bird coming off the ground was his/her bird. They needed to learn the difference. And as far going back to the coop I did not use homers I use strong feral birds. Spanieling is a real thinking man's game.


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## cwk33041 (Dec 30, 2013)

birdhntr said:


> Keep at it!
> I have a good routine for that issue


Please share. Always interested to learn something new.


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## Mark4486 (Oct 14, 2015)

gundogguy said:


> Depending on the dog and the situation the handler would either say "Yes" which means shoot the bird for the steady dog and set up a great long mark. Or "No" donot shoot for reasons only known by the handler. I my case when I did not want a bird shot I may have working with a dog that needed the confidence finding flushing and "owning" that bird. And also learning not every bird coming off the ground was his/her bird. They needed to learn the difference. And as far going back to the coop I did not use homers I use strong feral birds. Spanieling is a real thinking man's game.


i think i may have conveyed my message wrong. when you are planting birds with their "heads up" what stops the bird from just flying away if you are not tucking their heads and shaking them.


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## gundogguy (Oct 5, 2008)

When planting for a flushing dog the bird is dizzied but head not tuck in.
watch this short clip for dog in training,...






I post another for how planting for a pointer works

.Hal


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

Lucky Dog said:


> Not sure I follow what you are trying to say.
> 
> Are you saying you want a bird dog to ground scent and track?


At least my dogs if they trail anything it's not far. Unless it's my scent straight to the planted bird. But I'm pretty convinced using both ground and air scent are natural behaviors, fwiw.


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## gundogguy (Oct 5, 2008)

For the pointing dog. Tuck the head donot shake or dizzy the bird head tuck only






Hal


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

GrouseHntr said:


> Currently working on training for the NAVHDA Utility Test at the end of August. Field work is done, as she is steady to the release and retrieves to hand. Now working on duck search. She searches for plenty of time but I need her to expand beyond the 80yd range she is at now. Pretty sure I can get her where she needs to be but she went into heat last week so I am taking a couple weeks off from pushing her. Haven't started steady by the blind but I am confident she will take to that easy enough. All in all, I worry and am an anxious mess because thats just the way I am. Any issues on the day of the test will either show a lacking in my training or just bad luck.


The best thing you can do to try and get range at this point is leave the dog alone.Don't talk to it.


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## Mike da Carpenter (Nov 26, 2017)

After 32 years of hassle free operation, our AC unit finally gave up the ghost last week. A couple of the HVAC guys from work came over after work today to replace the unit.

My wife put a fan in the living room just to circulate air inside the 87° humid house. As I came in the home, this is what I was greeted with. This has got to be the smartest thing walking the face of the earth. Levi has absolutely no shame and knows where his priorities are. 

I believe this settles the debate of smartest bird dog breed.


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## wirehair (Oct 16, 2007)

My Bracco Vince lays on the tile in front of the fireplace with the fan on his nuts. So he is 2 IQ points smarter. LOL


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## Mike da Carpenter (Nov 26, 2017)

wirehair said:


> My Bracco Vince lays on the tile in front of the fireplace with the fan on his nuts. So he is 2 IQ points smarter. LOL


The German in him said to lay where there is padding. Has to be worth 3 points easily.


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## GrouseHntr (Nov 2, 2008)

birdhntr said:


> The best thing you can do to try and get range at this point is leave the dog alone.Don't talk to it.


No talking. Just salt the water with ducks and get her to learn to play the wind and range farther. She is getting there. I hunted her a bit much though and she doesn't believe there are ducks out there past 80 yards, so its a matter of getting her to trust the process when I send her. I send and then just stand there silent looking off in the distance. The only verbal reinforcement is when she gets a duck and I praise on her retrieve. My first NAVHDA dog and my first Utility test, so there were things I should have done when she was younger that are taking a little longer now. Live and learn.


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

Ironically of the sporting breed retrievers and even poodles are ranked the smartest. Of course I tend to doubt a lot of these metrics especially when they are mostly based on obedience and trainability. Scientist have found that domesticated animals have smaller brains and perhaps even the more domesticated the less intelligent. 

I personally feel even hounds are actually smart dogs. And, naturally, Brittanies are the very smartest of all.










The tamer the cow, the smaller the brain


Docile dairy and beef cows have smaller brains than aggressive bullfighting breeds




www.sciencemag.org


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

shaffe48b said:


> Ironically of the sporting breed retrievers and even poodles are ranked the smartest. Of course I tend to doubt a lot of these metrics especially when they are mostly based on obedience and trainability. Scientist have found that domesticated animals have smaller brains and perhaps even the more domesticated the less intelligent.
> 
> I personally feel even hounds are actually smart dogs. And, naturally, Brittanies are the very smartest of all.
> 
> ...


The smartest dog I ever owned was a labrador.There was nothing he couldn't be taught to do within no time.
There is a reason they are leader for the blind dogs and service dogs.


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## wirehair (Oct 16, 2007)

The smartest dog I ever owned was a Mutt named Rocky


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

Rocky didn't read those text books...

...wait...

...maybe he did read those text books.


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## Mark4486 (Oct 14, 2015)

smartest dog i ever new was my ex-girlfriend man could she shine a bumper.... lol


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

A lot of us like our dogs but most of us don't take it this far.


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## michiganmaniac (Dec 9, 2008)

My older setter i would imagine is pretty dumb by IQ standards, he is much dumber than our lab mix. But I don't need him to shake or roll over, just point birds. And he does that just fine


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## wirehair (Oct 16, 2007)

So what date are we OK to be back on state land off leash? My Bracci are too dumb to google it. Judging how many chicks I have seen on my property I am thinking things improved in my area.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

I am impressed with these dogs


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

I would love to train one.They are not pets but a superior working dog.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

shaffe48b said:


> A lot of us like our dogs but most of us don't take it this far.


What gives.
I like all dogs.


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## michiganmaniac (Dec 9, 2008)

wirehair said:


> So what date are we OK to be back on state land off leash? My Bracci are too dumb to google it. Judging how many chicks I have seen on my property I am thinking things improved in my area.


July 8 is the first day you can be back in the woods.

What general area of the state is your land? Just curious.


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## GrouseHntr (Nov 2, 2008)

birdhntr said:


> I would love to train one.They are not pets but a superior working dog.


I worked with a trainer who has the #3 ranked Malinois in obedience trials. The level of training and cooperation is astounding. The trainer is even deaf in one ear and the dog is trained to alert to sounds from that side.


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

birdhntr said:


> What gives.
> I like all dogs.


Perhaps you and your dog also love each other very much.


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

I think that we tend to let our emotions sway reality and judge dogs who are the most dependent as most intelligent. Probably bird dogs are bred the most to be codependent with their owners and are probably less smart than hound dogs. To a large extent I doubt if many domesticated dogs are smart enough to survive on their own in the wild except maybe my female who is the ultimate scrounge. She could find enough deer crap to survive I'm sure. But ten years and a thousand tries later she's still trying to catch her first squirrel. Wolves, coyotes, and foxes though probably have her beat.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

shaffe48b said:


> Perhaps you and your dog also love each other very much.


As in,Take what to far?


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

birdhntr said:


> As in,Take what to far?


Sometimes youve gotta read the last page of thread and get the inuendos and jokes. I mean I'm only going to spell it much sorry


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

We are making progress on breaking.
I used three birds in which on the first no cap gun then on the second I fired and she popped so then I milled around and sent the third bird and lagged a little bit before the shot and she was clean on it.





This clip here she went for the chase on the first bird and stopped. This told me she fully understands that she is to stay and that I can move forward with the breaking process and work on finishing her.





I have worked on whoa since she was 10 weeks old and infused in that she recognizes that whoa also means 12 o'clock tail set.She always brings it up but sometimes is pulling it a touch.








Getting better and looking good







youtube.com


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

Thursday is almost here.Wild birds train the bird dogs!!


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## wirehair (Oct 16, 2007)

We need a cold front to knock the temps down. No go on a day like today.


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

It'll be nice to get out for a few minutes.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

wirehair said:


> We need a cold front to knock the temps down. No go on a day like today.


When it is hot I go early morning and last light and just walk them into known birds.No conditioning workouts or searching for birds.
The end of the week is looking better.


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## michiganmaniac (Dec 9, 2008)

Its a high of 66 in gwinn tomorrow!!


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## wirehair (Oct 16, 2007)

I run up to Gwinn in the morning. Oh. wait that is 7 hours from me. LOL


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## michiganmaniac (Dec 9, 2008)

I was down visiting family over the holiday weekend and made it out to the ionia field trial grounds one morning. Asher with the find and baby Ezra with the back, as we were walking back to the truck.


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## Mark4486 (Oct 14, 2015)

michiganmaniac said:


> I was down visiting family over the holiday weekend and made it out to the ionia field trial grounds one morning. Asher with the find and baby Ezra with the back, as we were walking back to the truck.
> View attachment 775738


awesome


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

Steadily getting better. 5 birds and six shots.
She is a quick learner who only needs a short lesson every day.
Honoring is solid and has been for some time.
Hunts forward well and takes good casts.
Speeds improving along with independence which hopefully leads to punching deeper.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

She just loves her pigeons and is really starting to get it.8 minute stand.lol.


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

I took my pigeons a ways down the road today to set them instead of the yard. He did pretty good. Had to woah him still some. He'll live and die a stubborn little dog. But once we get on grouse it won't matter cause they'll be gone about the time I start closing in on the bird and he wants to creep anyways. I'm gonna buy some grouse scent to put on pigeon.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

shaffe48b said:


> I took my pigeons a ways down the road today to set them instead of the yard. He did pretty good. Had to woah him still some. He'll live and die a stubborn little dog. But once we get on grouse it won't matter cause they'll be gone about the time I start closing in on the bird and he wants to creep anyways. I'm gonna buy some grouse scent to put on pigeon.


Get a remote release.Put him on a 50 ft check cord.Walk the dog in down wind.
Let him establish a point then as soon as he creeps send the bird up.Stop any chase with cord.When he doesn't creep and does it right a few times start firing a blank pistol.Once he gets that down then reward him and shoot one for him then bring it to him.
He wants the bird so much that he will do what produces a bird for him to have.
The bird says whoa technique.


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

I don't shoot my pigeons. Maybe I'll get some quail who knows busy this year bear baiting.


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## Mark4486 (Oct 14, 2015)

Took Henry out on Tuesday and had a couple unproductive points. He held perfectly. I was proud even know they were unproductive. We didn’t stay out long it was to hot.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

Good boy!
They do that when young.Typically it is a chipmunk.lol.

Penny did it a few times at Gladwin trials but I figured out that was what she was doing.
They don't flush well!


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## Full_Draw_Killer (Jan 10, 2014)

Aspen my 8mo female getting ready to rock this September.


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## wirehair (Oct 16, 2007)

Aspen is looking gooooooood


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