# .410 for turkeys??



## marty (Jan 17, 2000)

Anyone ever heard of someone using one for tukeys hunting?? I looked at the dnr regs and it says shotgun so I guess it's legal. Be fun I think.....marty


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Man, talk about giving the birds an unfair advantage! I've blown easy shots with a 3" 12 Ga., and you want to use a 410? Don't get me wrong...I've shot a lot of things with my little 410 that I learned to hunt with, but this is going too far in my mind. Unless you get a standing, point blank shot, you're gambling big time limiting yourself to a 410. Just my .02 rotest_e


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## cedarlkDJ (Sep 2, 2002)

of course!.....check out the turkey photo contest........Cazzie got hers with a .410!!!
if she can do it...you can do it..it's all about being in the right spot at the right time and knowing when you can make that clean kill.....no matter what you are hunting!


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

sure, it can be done...at less than 20 yards, when the turkey is standing stock still, and you don't get turkey fever...but you could also watch him fly off, crippled, and get to watch a really disappointed look on your hunter's face...I would never use less than a 3 inch 12 gauge with no less than size 6 shot...I like 5's.

Anyone can handle a 12 when they will only shoot it once.


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

Not sure why this one came up again as it was discussed, quite thoroughly, before last turkey season. The .410 is a kids gun. a pop gun, one best used for killing rats in the barn, I suppose. Sure a .410 will kill a turkey. But the patterns are pitiful. Hardly useful for turkeys beyond "bayonet range".

Linda G. is dead right on this one. ALL of the real turkey hunters I know use a 12 ga (3" prefered) OR BETTER ie a 3 1/2" 12ga or a 10 ga. Michigan is one of the few states that doesnt require "20 gauge or better" for turkeys and I think it stinks.


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## trout (Jan 17, 2000)

WOW I guess my ol '22 LC Smith 2 3/4" just won't cut the mustard or will it 
Without practice even a 3.5" 10 gauge will cripple a bird in the wrong hands.


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## sarah c (Jul 26, 2002)

My buddie`s daughter uses a 410 and has shot several turkeys with it. she has shot them out to 25 yards and all have gone down immediately after the shot with no cripples. her name is cazzie, cazniks daughter. if the bead is on the head no problem. pattern the gun first to make sure what shot size patterns best. if the gun doesnt pattern scrap the idea


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## Hawker (Jan 6, 2003)

Oh please. Not the "real" hunters only use 12ga.'s crap again... Am I the only one who finds it ridiculous that elephant gun recoil should be endured to kill a 25 lb. bird? I'll keep my 20ga., thank you, and applaud anyone who takes a turkey with any legal firearm or bow confident that they have practiced with it and know its limitations. 

Call 'em close and blast them in the lips!


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## marty (Jan 17, 2000)

Linda I'm sorry but I beg to differ. Not everyone can shoot a 12 some use 20's just as well and maybe even better. The wallop of the gun is enough to do that  

To me saying "real hunters" well it really takes no skill to blow a turkeys head off at 8 yards. Me I'm going with my bow but if my little 410 patterns ok my daughter wants to use it. If I don't score maybe I'll break it out  

Well heading back to the woods and pretending to be a real hunter :tdo12: 
......marty


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Not even going to the comment about "real turkey hunters" :yikes: Yeah I believe in giving the critter a sporting chance, but I also think we hunters have an obligation to make as clean a kill as possible, and I just don't think a 410 is a good way of doing that. Pattern your 410 and you may agree. True, it can be done with 410 or bow, but will they assure a clean kill? I think we all know it takes quite a few BB's in the right location to drop a good Tom, and I just can't help but think you're going to wound more with a 410 than you kill cleanly. I could say the same about a bow, but I'm not opening that can of worms.  Personally I would limit it to a minimum of a 20 ga., which really doesn't kick much more than a 410. Most any kid of legal hunting would be able to deal with a 20.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

If a 5'4" old middle aged grandma with more aches and pains than I can count, not to mention two bad rotator cups that should have been operated on 10 years ago, can carry and use a 12 gauge for one clean killing shot at a wild turkey, then so can a young, healthy teenage girl...despite our "liberated" society, we still baby our women, who are a LOT tougher than most men think...and because they are babied, they grow up believing they CAN'T because they're female. 

I wouldn't want ANY daughter of mine thinking she couldn't do something EVER, especially when she CAN...and I would want my daughter to watch a turkey, or any animal taken, go down with one clean shot-no suffering, or worse, watching a crippled wounded animal get away only to die at the hands of predators or Mother Nature. 

Want to lose a young hunter?? That's how to do it...

Your daughter just THINKS she can't carry a 12 gauge, because she has been raised to believe that...but she can. If she were hunting with me, she would. There are a number of excellent recoil systems and recoil pads on the market now that will reduce or even eliminate all the recoil...I've got a kickeez recoil pad and a mercury recoil system in the stock, and all my shotguns have cut stocks to fit me better. 

Thousands of womens use 12 gauges all the time. I would never use a .410 on a wild turkey, in fact, the only thing I've ever used a .410 for is breaking in a gun dog to birds as a pup. 

You may not have time before her turkey hunt to install a mercury recoil system for her, but you do have time to get a good recoil pad on that shotgun...

I've shot turkeys with 20's, and I've shot turkeys with 16's...but I prefer a 12. Just like I've shot deer with an old 30 caliber carbine and a 243...but when it comes to deer hunting, I now have a 280. Which kicks like a mule, because it's a featherweight, but you know what? I've never needed more than one shot. 

And ask any turkey hunter if they even REMEMBER pulling the trigger-they don't, and even if they do, it's not a problem after they've downed a bird, you know that, and in her heart, with that one big gobbler under her belt, she does, too.

As for your remark about no skill in killing a wild turkey at 8 yards, no there probably isn't when you're in your deer hunting blind...or in your yard...but there's more skill than you think needed when you're out in the open under a tree, where that bird can SEE you...just ask all the "real hunters" who have missed birds at that distance...it happens all the time.


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## wildcoy73 (Mar 2, 2004)

poor linda, a 410 shoot properly can take down a large white tail so why not a turkey it only take one bb to the brain or spine to drop him. and for all those out there that thinks it is wrong to hunt a turkey with a bow get real i've droped more deer with my bow than with a rifle and the nice part about it no one else knows when i shoot yes a deer may run a bit when hit by that arrow but the same goes when hit by a rifle or shotgun. i'll trade ya my mossberg any day for a bow you will get more enjoyment out of it. guess i'm wrong to fish with my 6lb test line for everything that swims. in wich i have caught 25lbs red snappers, 12lb black bass, a 4.5 foot black tip shark. as i say if it is legal and it gives you a challenge do it. for we all have missed or game with a 12 gauge. marty you can shot so just do it hey bet if he was within 15 yards we could take him with or bb guns its all on shot place ment so get in the woods and get ur turkey so we can come get or second one for the girls


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## n.pike (Aug 23, 2002)

A .410 is plenty powerful enough. You only have to be a good marksman, and a better hunter. 

How many deer are killed with a .22 by poachers? Its all about shot placement. While I also use a 12 gauge, I dont knock those that use smaller calibers. Most of us are using overkill weapons.


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## funebonz880 (Feb 17, 2004)

My 20 gauge is nice. It works just fine . Got my first bird with it this year. I dont think im ready for a 12 (when im 13). BUt ya u can get a bird with a .410


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## caznik (Jun 3, 2002)

Here ya go,
This is prof that you can kill a turkey with a 410. This is my daughter Cazzie and this is her 3rd turkey with her 410 shotgun. She uses 3" #4 shot.
Caznik


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

You aren't reading my posts, nor those of Linda, or some of the others. No one said you can't shoot a turkey with a 410! We all said it is not advisable to do. But yes, it can be done. You've missed our point, but this discussion is like talking about politics, abortion, etc., etc. Everyone has an opinion and there is no right or wrong answer. I'm done with this thread. :banghead3


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

But before everyone decides a 12 gauge is too much gun for their girls and kids, take your average 20 gauge pump shotgun out, stick a turkey load in it, and fire it...then stick a turkey load in your average 12 gauge and fire it...which one hurts more??

I bet the 20 gauge does...


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## marty (Jan 17, 2000)

Hey Linda. That's not the issue here. The 410 was her grandfathers and she wants to shoot one with it. Does that seem to be a problem to anyone??  She's taken a few birds with her 20 no problem. I'm also finished as well.

BTW caz nice bird. Tell your daughter congrats  .......marty


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## hypox (Jan 23, 2000)

Who cares about kick? Maybe someone wants a little more challenge to thier hunt. I always thought it was the hunt that was important, not the kill. If someone wants to take out a .410 and shoot a turkey at 10 or 15 yards(or what ever they pattern it too) more power to them. I hunted turkeys for a few years with a 20 gauge because I had a really good place to hunt and wanted more of a challenge than walking out with a bazooka and blowing a turkeys head off at 40 yards.

And yes, I shot a 20 gauge single shot w/turkey loads and it kicked like a freaking mule.


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## Dave Lyons (Jun 28, 2002)

Linda,

Think you are right on this, my wife never was told she could use a 12ga. She was always told a 20ga. is all she can have. Well even with that 12ga. she had a clean miss at 12 paces on her first turkey. Even though she missed she said it was worth it to her. I shot my first turkey this year with a single shot HR 12ga. I personally am glad I had that gun kicks like a wild mule but one shot at 35 yrds and the dropped. I was in the open with hens within 10 yrds of me and 6 toms, very intense.

Dave


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

I think what people are looking at when they criticise the use of the.410 is the odds plain and simple. Can it be done? of course it can there is a lot of proof of that but is it recommended is the key. In my book no it is not recommended just like I would not recommend a .410 for pass shooting geese or ducks but it can be done. It is knowing the limitations of the firearm and most .410's are very limited when it comes to the knockdown needed for a large turkey. I lost a nice bird last year that i dumped right on his face with 3 1/2" number 5's how? I don't know but i know the .410 is a lot more risky that what i am throwing! It is not a matter of being tough or a "real hunter" at all it is a matter of sporting ethics in my book. Just as I wouldn't send my kid out bowhunting with a 20 lb draw!!! It can kill but it is a gamble that is all. A well place .17 cal will drop an elk to its knees but there is a reason it is illegal. Congrats to those who have figured out how to do it but to the rest who are starting out, Grab the 12 gauge and enjoy after all my 6 year old daughter shot a 20 gauge last summer and never complained a bit.

Just my 2 cents!
AW


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## duckcommander101 (Jan 14, 2003)

My sons both killed their first birds with 20 ga 3" #6s, both birds were stone dead.
We spent alot of time patterning this gun to see what load worked best and I put a scope on it as well since my oldest wears glasses and had a hard time focusing on three things at once. It's a 2x scope and I put one on my gun as well because I like to be able to fine tune where it's shooting.
After many boxes of shells and a couple aftermarket chokes guess what worked best- Remington 3" #6 with a factory full choke, it put twenty in the vitals at 30 yards and both boys birds were way closer than that when shot (youngest even had to let them get a bit further out to shoot as two toms were five feet from him but off to one side).
Were duck hunters by trade so they opted to switch to 12s last fall after a brief stint with Model 12 16ga. The lack of steel shot in 16 ga kind of forced the issue plus they really like the autos.
I guess if you spend time patterning the gun and know its limitations then it's a personal choice. I myself never even let my sons shoot a 410, just started with a 20 single shot and moved up.
I also am certain Rob Keck uses a 20 ga on Turkey Call TV regularly.
To each his or her own on the 410 for turkeys, but I'll pass, although based on the picture of the young lady with her 410 killed bird someone took the time to see what the gun could do before using it in the woods and she killed a nice bird with it.


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## buktruk (Jan 15, 2004)

I think using a .410 for turkeys is a lot like bowhunting etc. It can be done and it can be done ethically if you know your weapon, and your limitations. Can any one grab a .410 out of the gun cabinet buy a box of shells and head out into the turkey woods expecting to ethically take a turkey? I would say no, but with some patterning and practice I feel one could. The bird will probably have to be pretty close and the shot true but knowing your weapon and skill level will make all the difference. 

As far as those saying that anyone can grab a 12 ga. and go out an shoot it I have to disagree. My dad made the mistake of starting me off hunting deer with a 12 ga. when I was 12 (I weighed about 55lbs.) I quickly became gun shy because it was too much gun for me. Could I shoot it? Yes. But could I shoot it effectivly? No, I was flinching quite regularly and it took me a lot of practice to break this bad habit. Everyone will not have this problem, but it is definatly something to think about before handing your small child a 12 ga.

Now as far as modern day technology and kick reduction yeah it has come a long way. I bought my wife a Sims Recoil pad and wow they work great. So would a 12 ga. with all the latest gadgets on it be better suited for turkey hunting, probably, but can you ever replace the sentimental value of taking a turkey with the same gun Grandpa used? No way. Have her practice with the gun and know her limits and take her out for a hunt she will never forget. 

Just for the record, I will be using my Bow this year, and I feel I can be just as effective with this as I can with my gun, no I don't have the same range as with my 12 but I know my weapon and my limits. Just my thoughts on these topics. Good luck to all.


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## hypox (Jan 23, 2000)

Very well said buktruk!


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

Nobody said you cant kill a turkey with a .410. But at what range can a .410, with #4 or #5 shot, consistently put 5 or 6 shot in the brain and cervical spinal cord of a wild turkey?? When the ".410-aholics" can answer that question, honestly with pattern testing, then they'll know at what range they can shoot, ethically and responsibly. Nobody has offered that data here. Nobody.

Consider the following:
1. Turkey loads are made only for the 20, 12 and 10 gauges. Not the .410.
2. Turkey chokes are only made for the 20, 12 and 10 gauges. Not the .410.
3. In most of the major turkey hunting states, the .410's are illegal for turkeys (Turkey Call mag)
4. There are very, very good reasons for 1,2 and 3 above.

This post was made for the many newbies and lurkers who frequent this board this time of year. Listen to Linda G; she's one of the best turkey hunters in the state. A case can be made for the 20 ga as a turkey gun, as the post above has done. But take the claims of the .410 as a "great turkey gun" with more than a few grains of salt!!


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

Natty I must agree! The 20 Ga YES it can be a great turkey gun and a tremendous deer gun as well but the difference betweeen the 410 and the 20 is a very large difference! Like I said, It can be done and done well in the properly prepared hands; however, it is risky and the risk of wounding are tremendous. To each his or her own but I think in 9 cases out of 10 it is a bad decision and an unehical one as well. I wouldn't use trap loads to hunt pheasant but it is legal?????????????

AW


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

Adam,

Well said!!!! :banghead3 

Natty B.


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## NEMichsportsman (Jul 3, 2001)

Not criticizing opinions either way, as I use a 12 guage myself...I have no problem if someone patterns a gun and determines the effective range. I think knowing the limitations of the 410 and operating within those parameters is ethical and acceptable. Not my choice as I have always believed in overkill. I think using the 410 within it's limits is a much better choice than those people who think they can reach out and touch birds at 50+ yards without patterning their 12 guage.

I think our membership here is "leaps and bounds" above the average hunter, and can be depended on to do what is ethically correct. I think we are splitting hairs here, I think someone even mentioned that using 2 3/4 inch shells was not appropriate? Before I became wealthy I could not afford the expense of getting a gun that I would use only a few times a year, I made due with my Ithica pump and always made an accurate shot resulting in a quick kill.

One last thought...if a beginner or female, is uncomfortable with the kick of a 12, the chance of wounding vs. killing is greatly increased. I think there is more benefit shooting with something that you are comfortable with. As your experience increases so can the caliber of your weapon.


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## caznik (Jun 3, 2002)

Ok,
Now I have a daughter that just loves to hunt with me. When I took her out when she was 12 out bush tail hunting I asked her would you like to shoot my 20ga. single shot, well she told me yes that she try it. Well when I let her shoot it she didn't like that gun at all because it kicks so hard. So by now I thought oh great she is going to have to use her 410 for a everything gun now because her 410 will not kick for her. So like every gun, every hunter must allways sight in there guns so there will be no wounded deer, turkey's, and other animals. There is one thing I hate is seeing a wounded wild animals walking around in the woods. Everyone has a way that him or her has to hunt. Lets see should my boy use a 12ga. or should my daughter or wife use a 410. The way I think you should do it is, who ever is the hunter let them choose what they like to use. Like I said I have a daughter and when she was 12 I was afraid that if I forced her to go and use that 20ga. that she would not go hunting no more and to me it is really hard to get a daughter to go out hunting and try to kill something. So this is what I had to do with my daughter. I took her out to a shooting range and we worked with that 410. I have her shoot #4- 3" 410 shells for turkey's. Now with this 410 she cannot shoot any turkey past 20yards and I told her that. So everytime she go's out turkey hunting she allways make's sure that turkey is 20yards and closer. She has shot 3 turkey's with her 410 all at 10-15 yards and never has wounded one. You hunters all know that you have to go out and shoot your guns to know how your gun will shoot. The way some of you guys are talking about the poor little 410 is your afraid of wounding a turkey. Well maybe they should stop deer hunting with bows because how much hunters wound alot of deer. Man I herd alot of stories last year on how many hunters wounded deer with there bows and that makes me sick to see a deer with a arrow still in it and walking around. Just remember this, what ever gun you use you must practice all the time with that gun so you know how that gun will shoot. A 410 is a very deadly gun if used the right way.

Caznik

Ps: My daughter is now 19 and she is now using a 20ga. shot gun for deer hunting and she is very happy with it. Now if I can get to save more money I will buy her a 20ga. turkey gun IF SHE WANTS TO.


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

Point taken you are the exception to the usual and that is what I was referring to the usual. Congrats to your daughter on her shooting as well as her discipline!!  

Ps- I still believe gun hunter wound many more deer every year than bow hunters but that is another topic all togather :shhh: 

AW


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## Huntin Horseman (Nov 2, 2002)

I love how whenever .410's come up for hunting anything bigger than a squirrel people start getting their panties all in a bunch. For the people saying that "Real Hunters" use a 12 Ga. I think that's BS. All I use is 12 Ga.'s I have one for Waterfowl/turkey , one for Small Game, one for Deer and a couple just because and I love that gauge. But I think the person who takes the time to pattern and practice with their .410 and then go out and kill a deer or turkey or even a duck is a much better hunter than me. And anyone who follows the rulebook and makes clean ethical kills is a "Real Hunter".


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

I don't know about this real hunter stuff because I don't think that is determined by what size ammunition you use for hunting but at the same time I wouldn't say that someone using a smaller gun than me is a better hunter. I love the little 410. it is a great little gun and fun to shoot too but I am playing the percentages a little here and that is all. Granted I am on the side of overkill as well I shoot 3 1/2" and If they made a 4" I'd shoot that because I always want to have enough and I personally don't believe the 410 is adequate, if it was it would not be illegal in many states. JMO!!!!!  

AW


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## wildcoy73 (Mar 2, 2004)

well all of ya that think the 410 is a toy let go out to the field place ya at 20 yards and let me put the bead on ur head. bet i would get no takers. yes i use big guns for years my first rifle at 14 was the 30-o6 with 150 grain at 17 i bumped it up to 220 grains. and i did kiss the scope sevral times. i use a mossberg 500 12 ga for turkey hunting with 3" 5shot and from what i see this gun is alot more than ya need. the 20 ga is probably is a perfect gun for most. and the 410 will have its user. i've personally taken a deer that was attempted to be poached by a rifle hunter big piece of its back missing with my bow was that person rifle to small?............ no it is the person behind the trigger give me the time to practice and i believe i could take one with a blow gun. it is all practice and knowing ur limits and that of ur weapons. so go to the field and pattern that 410 and let her get another turkey. because we at least know she is not afraid to shoot a gun


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## n.pike (Aug 23, 2002)

Mankind has killed deer and larger game for thousands of years with sticks and rocks. It all depends on your own skills.
Compare it to this...how many big suvs and trucks(4x4's) do you see there in the city, are they necessary? Overkill? Its about stroking our ego's, bigger weapons, higher grain bullets, more draw weight.

If you can shoot well enough, it does not matter the gauge you use. Know your weapon's limits, and your own.


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

Nobody said it can't be done!!!!!!!! But I don't see people out there a lot with sticks and rocks either!!!!! Oh well we will all have to agree to disagree I guess I still think if you can shoot a 410 you can handle a 20 ga.

AW


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## n.pike (Aug 23, 2002)

Sticks(bows)
Rocks(broadhead)

There are still some primitive longbow hunters out there that are phenominal with their accuracy and killing ability.

I dont think it is about what you can handle, many of us have "handled" some big guns, but I think my Barrett 50 is overkill.
Its the challenge.


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## PLewy (Mar 29, 2004)

I think it is more of a personal question on whether it should be used or not. If you have patterned the gun and know your equipment and feel confortable that you will make a clean kill why not. But if and only if you feel comfortable that you will make that clean kill. I'll be the first to admit that I dont have the time to take out .410 single shot (that I cherish becuase it was my first gun and my grandfather gave it to me) to pattern it properly and have 100% confidence to use it. For those who do I say go for it. It gives that much more to an already great hunting story. As we all know and has been posted before a .410 is a deadly weapon in the right hands.
Another another .02 to add to the pot


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## Randy Kidd (Apr 21, 2001)

" If you can handle a .410 you can handle 20 gauge" 
If you can handle a 30-30 then you can handle a 30-06, if you can shoot a 30-06 you should shoot a 300 mag. ect..ect same with pistols why shoot a 9mm when you can shoot a 454 or the SW50..personal preferance...... Real hunters are not about what you hunt with...but how you coose to use what you hunt with...Are you an ethical hunter if you choose to use a .410 for turkeys? well if you pattern your gun and know what your effective range is and you stick to those limitations then yes you are an ethical hunter.. Are you an ethical hunter because you use a 10 gauge with 3 1/2 # 4 shot.. well only if you took the time to do the same thing as the ethical hunter above did.. If you didn't then you are just another snob slob


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

If that's all ya got to use , then that's all ya got.
I wouldn't reccomend it tho if a bigger shotgun was available.

My 15 year old daughter shoots a Stoger 12 ga. over and under. Before season, she'll shoot it 10 - 12 times to get the feel for it again. During these sessions, we run 12 ga. dove shot, 7s and 8s in low brass. No recoil. No big bang.

Come game time, in goes the 3in. Remington Nitro Mags in No. 6. She know's there's a bigger shell in the gun, is 2 for 2 and tells me she never even remembers the gun going off.


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

Huh, now that sounds reasonable.  15 years old you say? and a 12 gauge? That big ole nasty 12 gauge that just knocks grown men down all the time and breaks their shoulders????? Well good for her!!!!!

AW


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