# garmin 178 gps/fishfinder difficulty



## tdejong302 (Nov 28, 2004)

Just installed a garmin 178 gps/fishfinder on my boat. Fishfinder works great however the gps sucks right now. I was on the water the other day and was about 1/2 mile from shore. The gps unit showed me on land. On my trip back to the landing I went around a point and the gps unit showed me on land. The unit is reading about 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile off. I tried to reinitialize the unit the get an updated reading however the unit won't let me reinitialize it. Everytime I turn it on it gets its own reading to within 20-100ft. however its not accurate. Right now all I have is an expensive fish finder. 

I have the unit mounted on the dash so it has a clear view to the sky (satelites). Its the only running unit on the dash so theres no interference. I contacted garmin and the tech dept. said that the unit needs an updated chip. The blue chips cost $225. So according to Garmin to get the gps unit to work right I need to spend more money. Out of the package units can't be relied on for navigation. I still dealing with garmin right now. I don't like the answers they are giving me. Any suggestions here would be appreciated. Frustrated in the u.p.


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## Gilbey (Oct 26, 2005)

tdejong302 said:


> The blue chips cost $225. So according to Garmin to get the gps unit to work right I need to spend more money. Out of the package units can't be relied on for navigation. I still dealing with garmin right now. I don't like the answers they are giving me. Any suggestions here would be appreciated. Frustrated in the u.p.


Can't be of much help, just browsing to see what's working out there.

Wow, what a bunch of crap. Sorry to hear that and I know what NOT to buy


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## Captain Tan Can (Nov 9, 2005)

I'm not familiar with this particular model but I assume it shows your position as a triangle with the point showing your direction of travel. If it is like this you should know that your position is actually the center of the triangle, not the point. Also did you have it panned in to the closest without overpanning? I will tell you that by adding the optional charts the difference is night and day. If you want to know water depths and locate yourself on structure in the water you will really need the charts.


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## tdejong302 (Nov 28, 2004)

I agree with you I would like to know water depths and contours however I would like to first experience a marine gps that can tell me if I'm running into a dock, land or reef. Garmin..........you lost my vote. 

I'm hoping someone can offer some advice about what I may have done wrong installing it. I am planning on fishing in the morning and will use my handheld for my path from the dock and back. I hope there isn't any fog because if there is it will take about an hour to get to my fishing spot. Going slower hopefully I won't run into anything. ,,,,,,,,,>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Garmin..........you lost my vote. 

I just hooked up the boat and am ready for the a.m. hunt.. Watch out kings here we come. Garmin may have to take a back seat. :rant:


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## vando45 (Feb 25, 2004)

This looks like a nice unit. If you set a waypoint, say at a pierhead or a dock, doesn't it bring you back to that exact location? I have a 176C and you are right, the basemaps suck. You really need the Blue Chart or fishing Hot Spots. I would suggest the CD's and a blank memory chip, that way you can play around with them on your computer, save waypoints etc. Check out GPSDiscount.com for good prices and service.


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## tdejong302 (Nov 28, 2004)

Thanks for the suggestion. I ordered a bluechart (card) from Gandermountain. I am hoping now my unit will alteast be accurate within 100ft and not a 5 mile base map. 

Garmin completely misled me in their advertising. Take a look for yourselves. Go to garmin.com and read the specifics for the garmin gps 178 fishfinder/gps unit. Tell me where it states the unit is accurate to within 20ft. with a chip. Or that the basemap is best read at a 5 mile range to be accurate. Be very careful when dealing with this company. They made a fool out of me and even after making them aware of my feelings I was told to bad.


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## Crooked Dave (Jan 12, 2003)

I also have 2 Garmin GPS units, and I think they work very well. 








I installed the Mapsource BlueChart version 5 on both units (E-Trex Legend and GPSMap 162i) and although there are a few times the icon shows me on land when I am actually on water, it zooms down to 20 ft and can really put you on the edge of most contours of the lakes I fish. I think you may be mislead by the text in Garmins advertising, but I would bet that if you go to an area of your local lake, throw down a waypoint, drop a bouy, leave and navigate back to that waypoint, it will get you within the 20' as advertised. The generic maps that are loaded on the maps are not as precise as the downloaded maps. I also would add that much of my fishing is donew on Burt / Mullett / Crooked / Pickeral lakes and those lakes are indeed included in the software upgrade. Hopefully you researched the bodies of water that you fish and make sure the software covers your areas. Tight Lines.


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## roger23 (Jan 14, 2001)

A friend of mine had a 178 and had the same problem would not get his location with in a couple hundered feet not much good in a river that only 1/4 mile wide he took it back did not want to spend the extra money for up dates.


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## hatpointreef (Mar 24, 2006)

I don't know about this specific model but I have a Garmin 76C handheld with bluecharts installed and would and have used it as my life depended on it and it has never let me down. On the water always accurate to within 10 feet even without the optional antenna, and under a hardtop. Some quick tips check what chart datum you are using. And remember after installing bluechart (which can be tricky) it is made from the NOAA charts and other sources and may not be extreemly accurate as some of the NOAA chart datum is from years ago. I am not totally partial to Garmin, but I would not even go near a Magellan (basically no tech support help)


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## duck heaven (Aug 10, 2004)

I just purchased in April 2006 a Garmin 178C and love everything about it's simplicity. While reading and asking knowledgeable questions so as to be informed .... nobody lied to me??? 

After carefully looking at all the available GPS / Chart Recorders / Fish Finders available on the market .... I was told up-front by all manufacturers including Garmin ... that the world base maps are included and for an extra fee .... 

"Marine Cartography" detailed coordinate, detailed depth contours, inter-tidal zones, wrecks, navaids, and many other points of interest is available ...

I purchased the "Blue- Marine Cartography" CD for all of North America & Canada $72.00 on sale ... 

I find my Garmin product superior.


.


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## tdejong302 (Nov 28, 2004)

Some are happy some aren't. You obviously asked more questions about the base map. I relied on the packaging info. and feel mislead. The info. on the package says accurate to within 20ft. No where does it say basemap only good viewing at 5miles. 

Glad you weren't taken.!


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## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

tdejong302 said:


> Some are happy some aren't. You obviously asked more questions about the base map. I relied on the packaging info. and feel mislead. The info. on the package says accurate to within 20ft. No where does it say basemap only good viewing at 5miles.
> 
> Glad you weren't taken.!


*Garmin is referring to REPEATABILITY.*
_With electronic charts the map DETAIL is enhanced NOT that the accuracy is guaranteed.

_ALMOST ANY GPS will get you back to within 20 feet of a marked waypoint - *and EVERY GPS has a disclaimer when you start it saying NOT To rely upon it as your primary or sole basis for navigation!*

I don't suppose that you missed that part?

I own three different GPS units , Humminbird 787c2 , Lowrance LMS332c and an Eagle AccuNav Sport (older non-waas "portable" unit - which usually got me within 50 feet every time) . These are AMAZING electronic devices , and as such , are NOT foolproof. They will take you ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD with great accuracy , but they are not some 'electronic periscope' you peer into and close your eyes to the "real world". I have a Navionics Electronic Chart in one of my GPS units and it's "close" but it's NOT right on the money. When I am at a lake - the depth shown isn't usually right. There is usually a "map offset" or "map fix" feature to move the displayed chart closer to the actual earth locations. If you read your manual very well , top to bottom , you'll see what I'm talking about.
I didn't learn just the "basics" in an hour - and anyone else has to spend some time getting familiar with their machine.
Your machine is a very precision instrument - but it's not a substitute for keeping your eyes peeled!
Learn the units' operational features and you'll be IMPRESSED what you can do with it. If you use it for fishing , the "spot on a spot" is 'gravy' to get back to again & again..... I've been using GPS since about '94-'95 - you should have got your feet wet then , it'd make you appreciate the EASE of use on these newer ones!!

If you can get over the dissapointment of "it's not what I thought - or expected"... You'll join the masses of happy GPS users and use it for an aid or edge. I sure couldn't whack fish like I do without it.
Don't trust the map , trust the Lat/Lon coordinates!!!
You'll get with 20 feet!


Cheers ,
 Robert


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## duck heaven (Aug 10, 2004)

TDEJONG302 ....

Sorry to hear ... that you had an unpleasant experience with your unit. 

They really are a magnificent instrument ... however if you are totally unsatisified with the unit .... and have had it less than 90 days here in Michigan ... being it is an electronic /electrical instrument ..... your entitled to a complete refund under Michigan law.

Maybe the unit isn't used to being in God's country of the upper-penninsula ...and it doesn't know how to cope with all the beautiful trees .. crystal clear waters ... and pristine fishing ??? :lol:   


Good Luck ..with whatever decicion you decide ... 


.


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## Jason Adam (Jun 27, 2001)

duck heaven said:


> They really are a magnificent instrument ... however if you are totally unsatisified with the unit .... and have had it less than 90 days here in Michigan ... being it is an electronic /electrical instrument ..... your entitled to a complete refund under Michigan law.


Where on the books does this law exist??????


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## duck heaven (Aug 10, 2004)

Jason Adam said:


> Where on the books does this law exist??????


 
Jason,

Hopes this helps your purpose ...

If you are looking for the specific "act" and anotated law ... you'll need to reference an attorney however this as many other Public "Acts" in the State Of Michigan fall under the Michigan Consumer Protection Act.

potential violations caused to Mr. "tdejong302" can be viewed below in an overall summary of the Michigan Laws.

1,a - confusing & misunderstanding of "certification" of the Loran/FishFinder's accuracy. (innaccuracy)

1,g - Representing to sell those goods as represented
(Mr. "tdejong302" states that the packaging on his Garmin product depicts an accuracy of a certain nature ... and according to Mr. tdejong302" his purchased item is not meeting that expectation by a long shot!


*Methods , Acts and Practices that violate the Michigan Consumer Protection Act.*

*(1) Unfair, unconscionable, or deceptive methods, acts or practices in the conduct of trade or commerce are unlawful and are defined as follows:*
*(a) Causing a probability of confusion or misunderstanding as to the source, sponsorship, approval, or certification of goods or services.*
*(b) Using deceptive representations or deceptive designations of geographic origin in connection with goods or services.*
*(c) Representing that goods or services have sponsorship, approval, characteristics, ingredients, uses, benefits, or quantities which they do not have or that a person has sponsorship, approval, status, affiliation, or connection which he or she does not have.*
*(d) Representing that goods are new if they are deteriorated, altered, reconditioned, used, or secondhand.*
*(e) Representing that goods or services are of a particular standard, quality, or grade, or that goods are of a particular style or model, if they are of another.*
*(f) Disparaging the goods, services, business, or reputation of another by false or misleading representation of fact.*
*(g) Advertising or representing goods or services with intent not to dispose of those goods or services as advertised or represented.*
*(h) Advertising goods or services with intent not to supply reasonably expectable public demand, unless the advertisement discloses a limitation of quantity in immediate conjunction with the advertised goods or services.*
*(i) Making false or misleading statements of fact concerning the reasons for, existence of, or amounts of, price reductions.*
*(j) Representing that a part, replacement, or repair service is needed when it is not.*
*(k) Representing to a party to whom goods or services are supplied that the goods or services are being supplied in response to a request made by or on behalf of the party, when they are not.*
*(l) Misrepresenting that because of some defect in a consumer's home the health, safety, or lives of the consumer or his or her family are in danger if the product or services are not purchased, when in fact the defect does not exist or the product or services would not remove the danger.*
*(m) Causing a probability of confusion or of misunderstanding with respect to the authority of a salesperson, representative, or agent to negotiate the final terms of a transaction.*
* Causing a probability of confusion or of misunderstanding as to the legal rights, obligations, or remedies of a party to a transaction.*

*(o) Causing a probability of confusion or of misunderstanding as to the terms or conditions of credit if credit is extended in a transaction.*
*(p) Disclaiming or limiting the implied warranty of merchantability and fitness for use, unless a disclaimer is clearly and conspicuously disclosed.*
*(q) Representing or implying that the subject of a consumer transaction will be provided promptly, or at a specified time, or within a reasonable time, if the merchant knows or has reason to know it will not be so provided.*
*(r) Representing that a consumer will receive goods or services "free", "without charge", or words of similar import without clearly and conspicuously disclosing with equal prominence in immediate conjunction with the use of those words the conditions, terms, or prerequisites to the use or retention of the goods or services advertised.*
*(s) Failing to reveal a material fact, the omission of which tends to mislead or deceive the consumer, and which fact could not reasonably be known by the consumer.*
*(t) Entering into a consumer transaction in which the consumer waives or purports to waive a right, benefit, or immunity provided by law, unless the waiver is clearly stated and the consumer has specifically consented to it.*
*(u) Failing, in a consumer transaction which is rescinded, canceled, or otherwise terminated in accordance with the terms of an agreement, advertisement, representation, or provision of law, to promptly restore to the person or persons entitled thereto any deposit, down payment, or other payment, or in the case of property traded in but not available, the greater of the agreed value or the fair market value of the property, or to cancel within a specified time or an otherwise reasonable time an acquired security interest.*
*(v) Taking or arranging for the consumer to sign an acknowledgment, certificate, or other writing affirming acceptance, delivery, compliance with a requirement of law, or other performance, if the merchant knows or has reason to know that the statement is not true.*
*(w) Representing that a consumer will receive a rebate, discount, or other benefit as an inducement for entering into a transaction, if the benefit is contingent on an event to occur subsequent to the consummation of the transaction.*
*(x) Taking advantage of the consumer's inability reasonably to protect his or her interests by reason of disability, illiteracy, or inability to understand the language of an agreement presented by the other party to the transaction who knows or reasonably should know of the consumer's inability.*
* Gross discrepancies between the oral representations of the seller and the written agreement covering the same transaction or failure of the other party to the transaction to provide the promised benefits.*
*(z) Charging the consumer a price that is grossly in excess of the price at which similar property or services are sold.*
*(aa) Causing coercion and duress as the result of the time and nature of a sales presentation.*



*(bb) Making a representation of fact or statement of fact material to the transaction such that a person reasonably believes the represented or suggested state of affairs to be other than it actually is.*
*(cc) Failing to reveal facts that are material to the transaction in light of representations of fact made in a positive manner.*
*(dd) Subject to subdivision (ee), representations by the manufacturer of a product or package that the product or package is any of the following:*
*(i) Except as provided in subparagraph (ii), recycled, recyclable, degradable, or is of a certain recycled content, in violation of guidelines regarding environmental guides for the use of environmental marketing claims published by the federal trade commission, 16 C.F.R. part 260, P 36363 (August 13, 1992).*
*(ii) For container holding devices regulated pursuant to Act No. 145 of the Public Acts of 1988, being sections 445.581 to 445.584 of the Michigan Compiled Laws, representations by a manufacturer that the container holding device is degradable contrary to the definition provided in that act.*
*(ee) Representing that a product or package is degradable, biodegradable, or photodegradable unless it can be substantiated by evidence that the product or package will completely decompose into elements found in nature within a reasonably short period of time after consumers use the product and dispose of the product or the package in a landfill or composting facility, as appropriate.*


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## Jason Adam (Jun 27, 2001)

There is a big difference between getting your money back because you were deliberatly decieved by a manufacture, and "if you are totally unsatisified with the unit .... and have had it less than 90 days here in Michigan ... being it is an electronic /electrical instrument ..... your entitled to a complete refund under Michigan law."

I believe Mr. "tdejong302" mis-understood what was being advertised on the package(the GPS is infact accurate to the specs they advertised, the "base map" is not, which I do not believe claims or specs were ever given).


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## sfw1960 (Apr 7, 2002)

Jason Adam said:


> I believe Mr. "tdejong302" mis-understood what was being advertised on the package(the GPS is infact accurate to the specs they advertised, the "base map" is not, which I do not believe claims or specs were ever given).


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## tdejong302 (Nov 28, 2004)

Just a quick update to the last posting. I am looking at the box the garmin 178 came in and it says and I quote..."WAAS-enabled for gps accuracy to within 3 meter" I suppose this is an accurate statement...... 1 time in 3 million it will be accurate to within 3 meters. Nothing deceptive there, I guess your right. 

For WAAS to be enable it needed to connect to 3-4 satellites. It does this without or with the bluechart chip and I can tell you from personal experience I wasn't within a half mile of where I was suppose to be without the chip. Absolutely terrible gps unit without the chip. Great with the chip. 

I'm glad that I was going slow and using caution as I always do on the water. I used the gps as a tool on my boat. It wasn't a very good tool until I broke down and bought the chip. It is pretty accurate now. I just wish Garmin would have been more forthcoming on their advertising and mention the basemap was only good when read at a 5 mile increment. 

+







f


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## Jason Adam (Jun 27, 2001)

tdejong302 said:


> Just a quick update to the last posting. I am looking at the box the garmin 178 came in and it says and I quote..."WAAS-enabled for gps accuracy to within 3 meter" I suppose this is an accurate statement...... 1 time in 3 million it will be accurate to within 3 meters. Nothing deceptive there, I guess your right.
> 
> For WAAS to be enable it needed to connect to 3-4 satellites. It does this without or with the bluechart chip and I can tell you from personal experience I wasn't within a half mile of where I was suppose to be without the chip. Absolutely terrible gps unit without the chip. Great with the chip.
> 
> I'm glad that I was going slow and using caution as I always do on the water. I used the gps as a tool on my boat. It wasn't a very good tool until I broke down and bought the chip. It is pretty accurate now. I just wish Garmin would have been more forthcoming on their advertising and mention the basemap was only good when read at a 5 mile increment.


I'm not attacking you, but I think you are 100% wrong on this. I understand where you may have mis-understood their advertising, and why you are disappointed, but I'd be willing to bet that the unit IS accurate to within 3 meters EVERYTIME. GPS and WAAS have ZERO to do with the chartplotter. 

The claims they are making are for the GPS Accuracy. If you walk to place on the earth, it will give you the co-ordinates of that location within 3 meters every time. Mark your location at home and at work(co-ordinates) and then check it every day for a few days. I bet you the co-ordinates are right on every time.

Whether the basemap chart included with the GPS is relative and accurate to the coordinates is another matter. Now, I would personally be pissed or disappointed about it being that inaccurate, but I dont see claims as to the accuracy of the basemap. I took my new garmin to South Haven this weekend, I didnt have a chip, and it didnt even show the river at all, just land, i.e. I was driving my boat 1/2 mile inland.


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## tdejong302 (Nov 28, 2004)

I guess the moral to the story is before you buy a gps unit ask how good the base map is before you invest in it. If they tell you its best read at the 5 mile range you know you have to invest more money into the fish finder to get an accurate reading. Unless I'm running out to Standard Rock which is 48 miles from here...no shoals, sandbars or islands in the way a 5 mile range is fine. 

As you stated we agree to disagree which is okay. I just hope other people understand that even though your dealing with a well known name you have to be very careful not to be mislead.


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