# 12 gauge to 450bm



## BobbyHill (Aug 22, 2019)

Hi everyone. I'm new here and I'm sure my questions have been answered before, so dont beat me up to bad. I currently hunt southern Michigan with a Savage 212. This is a great gun and very accurate but I'll be honest the recoil makes this thing not enjoyable to shoot. I've only got 17 rounds through it, 15 to dial in at the range and the other 2 each took a doe last season. But as I said not pleasant to shoot and I'm thinking about a different gun / caliber for the future. I like to shoot all my guns often to be familiar with it so I'm thinking of going with something in 450 bushmaster in an AR platform, specifically the Ruger MPR in 450 bushmaster. I've only heard good things about the gun in shops and videos but want to know if anybody is hunting with this specific gun. All feedback is appreciated.


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## junkman (Jan 14, 2010)

Post this up in the rifle section.You'll get more bites.


BobbyHill said:


> Hi everyone. I'm new here and I'm sure my questions have been answered before, so dont beat me up to bad. I currently hunt southern Michigan with a Savage 212. This is a great gun and very accurate but I'll be honest the recoil makes this thing not enjoyable to shoot. I've only got 17 rounds through it, 15 to dial in at the range and the other 2 each took a doe last season. But as I said not pleasant to shoot and I'm thinking about a different gun / caliber for the future. I like to shoot all my guns often to be familiar with it so I'm thinking of going with something in 450 bushmaster in an AR platform, specifically the Ruger MPR in 450 bushmaster. I've only heard good things about the gun in shops and videos but want to know if anybody is hunting with this specific gun. All feedback is appreciated.


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## Zkovach1175 (Mar 29, 2017)

BobbyHill said:


> Hi everyone. I'm new here and I'm sure my questions have been answered before, so dont beat me up to bad. I currently hunt southern Michigan with a Savage 212. This is a great gun and very accurate but I'll be honest the recoil makes this thing not enjoyable to shoot. I've only got 17 rounds through it, 15 to dial in at the range and the other 2 each took a doe last season. But as I said not pleasant to shoot and I'm thinking about a different gun / caliber for the future. I like to shoot all my guns often to be familiar with it so I'm thinking of going with something in 450 bushmaster in an AR platform, specifically the Ruger MPR in 450 bushmaster. I've only heard good things about the gun in shops and videos but want to know if anybody is hunting with this specific gun. All feedback is appreciated.


I hunted with. 450 AR for years. I then had a custom bolt action made cause I loved the round. About a day later ruger came out with their bolt gun at a very cheap price compared to what I paid. However do not regret it. AR’s aren’t as comfy to hunt with but will do the job just fine. A cheaper option for your 512 would be a muzzle brake or slip on buttpad/ better buttpad. Hope that helps you out.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

I see that you are from Illinois, there are other options out there that have less recoil than a 450 Bushmaster. You are hunting deer not T. rex a milder recoiling rifle is a pleasure to shoot and can kill a deer just as dead.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

The .450 Bushmaster, out of the AR platform, has less recoil than a 12GA slug gun.


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## BobbyHill (Aug 22, 2019)

Luv2hunteup said:


> I see that you are from Illinois, there are other options out there that have less recoil than a 450 Bushmaster. You are hunting deer not T. rex a milder recoiling rifle is a pleasure to shoot and can kill a deer just as dead.


I hunt southern Michigan. Slug or straight wall.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Southern Mi doesn’t have the choices as IL but there are low recoiling options. My personal choice is the 357 Maximum. Mile recoil along with report. Easily a 200 yards rifle for most.


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## BobbyHill (Aug 22, 2019)

Luv2hunteup said:


> Southern Mi doesn’t have the choices as IL but there are low recoiling options. My personal choice is the 357 Maximum. Mile recoil along with report. Easily a 200 yards rifle for most.


I dont mind a little recoil just not what that gun puts out.


Luv2hunteup said:


> Southern Mi doesn’t have the choices as IL but there are low recoiling options. My personal choice is the 357 Maximum. Mile recoil along with report. Easily a 200 yards rifle for most.


I'm ok with some recoil I just dont want what the 12 gauge slug puts out in a gun i shoot alot. What could you compare the recoil of an ar 450bm to?


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

https://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm


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## Scadsobees (Sep 21, 2006)

Not an AR, but making the change from a 12 ga to 450bm....the recoil was more like the 20 ga. My 14 year old wouldn't shoot the 12 ga, but he likes shooting the BM. 
Mine's noisy, though. Plus the slugs, while devastating (gut shot, down in 15 yards), don't leave much of a hole.


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## Wallywarrior (Apr 1, 2016)

I’m from Iowa and used to shooting slugs. Last year switched to the ruger ar in 450. My biggest complaint is the noise. It is an ear ringing beast. Maybe removing the brake would help, or replacing with a custom. It kicks about the same as a full size 20 gauge semi auto. 

The metal against the hands in the bitter cold also sucks. This is true for any ar style that is not using some sort of cover, but it definitely is a noticeable difference. 

The 450 does not do near the shock damage that I was getting from 12 gauge slugs. The Hornady ammo that I used would go right through without much shock and expansion, where a 12 gauge slug would drop the deer within sight almost every time. W the 450 we had one doe die in sight (shot from front), one went about 150 yards, good lung shot, and a buck that was hit broadside in the chest (maybe not a central lung shot, but a shot that would have been down quick w a 12 gauge) that went a long darn way (half mile ish). 


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Noise should never be a problem, wear ear protection.


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## BobbyHill (Aug 22, 2019)

Wallywarrior said:


> I’m from Iowa and used to shooting slugs. Last year switched to the ruger ar in 450. My biggest complaint is the noise. It is an ear ringing beast. Maybe removing the brake would help, or replacing with a custom. It kicks about the same as a full size 20 gauge semi auto.
> 
> The metal against the hands in the bitter cold also sucks. This is true for any ar style that is not using some sort of cover, but it definitely is a noticeable difference.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info, very helpful! Do you think a 20ga slug would be a better option over the 450bm?


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

BobbyHill said:


> Thanks for the info, very helpful! Do you think a 20ga slug would be a better option over the 450bm?



No. The .450 is more accurate, and ammunition can cost less. It is very difficult to beat the .450 as far as accuracy goes. My Bushmaster, is as accurate as my custom 700 is at 100 yards. No slug gun I have every owned, or shot, can compare.


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## Wallywarrior (Apr 1, 2016)

DecoySlayer said:


> No. The .450 is more accurate, and ammunition can cost less. It is very difficult to beat the .450 as far as accuracy goes. My Bushmaster, is as accurate as my custom 700 is at 100 yards. No slug gun I have every owned, or shot, can compare.


Savage 220 or 212 is pretty darn accurate running quality ammo, such as sst. I’ve even seen a 220 shooting 2 inch groups at 100 yards with rifled Winchester opening price point shells. That is more than enough for most deer hunters, but yes the 450 is more accurate overall. 

You are also correct when comparing quality ammo. The 450 is cheaper to shoot. 






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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

My Ultra Slugger was good, more than good enough for hunting. It was no way as good as my .450 is. 

There are good slug guns out there, they are limited to the sabot.


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## Wallywarrior (Apr 1, 2016)

BobbyHill said:


> Thanks for the info, very helpful! Do you think a 20ga slug would be a better option over the 450bm?


With my experience, limited to one season on the 450, I would say absolutely. 

If you are after the “latest and greatest” like I was, stick with the 450. 


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

In what way does a slug gun out perform a .450?


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## Wallywarrior (Apr 1, 2016)

DecoySlayer said:


> In what way does a slug gun out perform a .450?


I’d much rather have a good expanding .73” slug hitting at 1793 @ 100yds than a .45” non expanding bullet hitting at 1868 @ 100yds. The shock of driving an extra quarter inch through is enough to tell me what is going on. Add this to first hand experience. 


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## Scadsobees (Sep 21, 2006)

Lol...I'd rather have a .45" bullet hitting at 100yards rather than a .73" slug spinning off somewhere south of the deer's derriere at 50 yards. But I have a low end mossberg shotgun that can't do a 5 foot grouping at 50 yards.

That was the first think I noticed with the new gun...I can hit the target each time!!


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## Wallywarrior (Apr 1, 2016)

Scadsobees said:


> Lol...I'd rather have a .45" bullet hitting at 100yards rather than a .73" slug spinning off somewhere south of the deer's derriere at 50 yards. But I have a low end mossberg shotgun that can't do a 5 foot grouping at 50 yards.
> 
> That was the first think I noticed with the new gun...I can hit the target each time!!


I would have to agree with you in your situation. Shot smooth bore shotguns for many years so I can relate, though I have a Remington 870 that shoots rifled slugs fairly accurately through its smooth bore. 


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Wallywarrior said:


> I’d much rather have a good expanding .73” slug hitting at 1793 @ 100yds than a .45” non expanding bullet hitting at 1868 @ 100yds. The shock of driving an extra quarter inch through is enough to tell me what is going on. Add this to first hand experience.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have first hand experience with both, as well. I also know that no matter how you try, no slug gun can match a .450 for accuracy. Just use a better bullet.


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## Scadsobees (Sep 21, 2006)

DecoySlayer said:


> I have first hand experience with both, as well. I also know that no matter how you try, no slug gun can match a .450 for accuracy. Just use a better bullet.


What's a better bullet? I'm using the Hornady black (due to them being most available, not any education on my part).


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Scadsobees said:


> What's a better bullet? I'm using the Hornady black (due to them being most available, not any education on my part).


If I wanted over the counter stuff I would be looking at the Hornady Whitetail, or the Winchester Deer Season. 

͏https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/450-bushmaster-245-gr-interlock-american-whitetail#!/

https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Rifle/Deer-Season-XP/X450DS


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## snortwheeze (Jul 31, 2012)

DecoySlayer said:


> I have first hand experience with both, as well. I also know that no matter how you try, no slug gun can match a .450 for accuracy. Just use a better bullet.


Definitely. Shots 100 yrds and in I'm taking my 870 (love that gun). Where I'm shooting 100+ the 450 is coming along.

And those American Whitetail rifled slugs for my 870 smoothbore is an a+ combo as well, shoots very well.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

snortwheeze said:


> Definitely. Shots 100 yrds and in I'm taking my 870 (love that gun). Where I'm shooting 100+ the 450 is coming along.



Shot a lot of deer with an 870. I shot them with slugs, and buckshot, just swapped out the barrel. The recoil is just too much on this old, worn out, shoulder now.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

If I wanted to go to "lead free" I would try these

https://bearcreekballistics.com/product/450-bushmaster-240-grain-ammo/


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## Scadsobees (Sep 21, 2006)

I suppose it's moot since I still have a box and a half yet, and that should last me 5 years...


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Scadsobees said:


> I suppose it's moot since I still have a box and a half yet, and that should last me 5 years...



Same here. Only that will last me for my remaining years hunting deer.


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## Scadsobees (Sep 21, 2006)

What's the difference between those and the black? Less speed, more spread on impact?


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Scadsobees said:


> What's the difference between those and the black? Less speed, more spread on impact?


The Hornady is an interlock bullet, it should hold together better. I don't know anyone who has shot a deer with it. 

The Winchester looks like it may hold together better, again, I know no one who as used it.


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## Scadsobees (Sep 21, 2006)

DecoySlayer said:


> The Hornady is an interlock bullet, it should hold together better. I don't know anyone who has shot a deer with it.


We (my son and I) took down 3 with it last year, all within 60 yds. None of them made it more than 20 yards. Gut shot buck went about 15 yards, no blood small holes, must have got the liver, insides were pretty messed up. Heart shot doe went about 20yds, blood everywhere. And the spine shot...just fell over.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

With what ammo? 

I took my doe, at 50 yards, with "Black". Massive blood trail. It went about 30 yards.


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## Scadsobees (Sep 21, 2006)

Sorry, with the black. I read that the regular hornady was basically the same as the black, so I assumed you meant black.


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## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

They are the same, Mine are all mixed up now. 

There have been mixed reviews on the performance of that ammo. Just puts a little doubt in the back of my mind, I don't like that.


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## outdoorsaddict99 (Jul 9, 2016)

BobbyHill said:


> I dont mind a little recoil just not what that gun puts out.
> 
> I'm ok with some recoil I just dont want what the 12 gauge slug puts out in a gun i shoot alot. What could you compare the recoil of an ar 450bm to?


I built My 450 BM AR with an 18" heavy barrel, I would Compare the recoil on mine to my mothers .410 rossi single shot with slugs. Very minimal recoil and a tack driver of a round. Its really a joy to shoot.


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## outdoorsaddict99 (Jul 9, 2016)

However, I also have a scope saddle and a rifled choke tube on my 870 20 guage, and at 125 yards it shoots 3.5" 3 shot groups. Both great shooting Guns and I have no problem shooting deer with either weapon. I was a little skeptical of rifled chokes until I shot one. My smooth bore 870 20 was shooting 6.5-7" groups at 125 yards and the rifled choke tube with Remington high velocity rifled slugs tightened it right up to 3.5"


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## snortwheeze (Jul 31, 2012)

outdoorsaddict99 said:


> However, I also have a scope saddle and a rifled choke tube on my 870 20 guage, and at 125 yards it shoots 3.5" 3 shot groups. Both great shooting Guns and I have no problem shooting deer with either weapon. I was a little skeptical of rifled chokes until I shot one. My smooth bore 870 20 was shooting 6.5-7" groups at 125 yards and the rifled choke tube with Remington high velocity rifled slugs tightened it right up to 3.5"


Try those American Whitetail by Hornady, 9$ box and that's what my 870 shoots the best.


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## outdoorsaddict99 (Jul 9, 2016)

snortwheeze said:


> Try those American Whitetail by Hornady, 9$ box and that's what my 870 shoots the best.


Are you shooting a smooth bore or fully rifled barrel? I have a smooth bore with a rifled choke, rifled chokes aren't meant to shoot sabots because they keyhole/ start to tumble +- 75 yards, where the choke gives a standard slug a little extra spin, ive found that the regular Remington high velocity rifled slugs have so far shot best from my 870, but im willing to experiment.


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## snortwheeze (Jul 31, 2012)

outdoorsaddict99 said:


> Are you shooting a smooth bore or fully rifled barrel? I have a smooth bore with a rifled choke, rifled chokes aren't meant to shoot sabots because they keyhole/ start to tumble +- 75 yards, where the choke gives a standard slug a little extra spin, ive found that the regular Remington high velocity rifled slugs have so far shot best from my 870, but im willing to experiment.


Smooth bore, why I get the rifled slug. Mine shoots the cheap ol fashion Winchester "well" too but not nearly the groups as the American Whitetail. I've experimented with a lot of rounds throughout the yrs as well and those American Whitetail are my $ now. Love em. Will be shooting soon here to try and reach out past that 100 yrd mark. Box says drops 11.4" at 150 yrds with zero @ 100... We'll see. Haven't shot 100+ yet. 1" high at 100 damn near touch holes 3 shot group


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