# wolf carcass dumped at dnr



## grizzlyadams73 (Jul 13, 2003)

Wolf carcass is dumped at DNR

Michigan Department of Natural Resources (DNR) officials at the Baraga district headquarters office continue investigation into a dead wolf found Dec. 8.
According to Ann Wilson DNR director of communications for the Upper Peninsula, the canine was placed at the Baraga DNR offices sign along US-41 N sometimes after dark Dec. 7 and the morning of Dec. 8. Wilson said the wolf was found by DNR employees arriving at work. More complete stories and details in this weeks' paper, pick up a copy 
http://www.lansesentinel.com/local_news.htm


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## Wizard3686 (Aug 30, 2005)

well i will tell ya what i use to live up there and i know the area real good there is a few packs just around in baraga county up there and alot of the locals are getting sick of them. i heard of a guy last year that shot one cut the collar off drove way back in the woods dumped the wolf but he got cought lol forgot to take the collar off and they fallowed his path all the way to the wolf and back to his house. me personialy i wouldnt shoot a wolf unless it was makeing an attack on me or if i felt that it was gonna attack me


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## One Eye (Sep 10, 2000)

This is a similar development as those that are occurring in the Western states. Humans will only tolerate so many of these predators in close proximity to them, and they will take matters in their own hands. The wanton killing of these animals is very sad. The feds and the states better come up with a management plan soon.

Dan


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## Worm Dunker (Sep 11, 2000)

I heard the U.P.er were taking road kill deer and pouring them full of antifreeze. The problem with this it may kill an eagle or to also.


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## Ninja (Feb 20, 2005)

Was it killed by a cougar?!? :lol:


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## Rudi's Dad (May 4, 2004)

I bet this idea was hatched in a tavern, over quite a few brewski's. Not the brightest light on the tree there.. 
S S S


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## grizzlyadams73 (Jul 13, 2003)

well to some of us u.per's as called above this person deserves great respect cause this person has the balls the size of bowling balls. hope fully the dnr will start to get the message. or start to relocate them down state.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

:woohoo1::woohoo1::woohoo1:


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## gregm (Feb 13, 2002)

Ninja said:


> Was it killed by a cougar?!? :lol:


:evil: :lol: :lol: :evil:


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## bambislayer42 (Oct 26, 2005)

grizzlyadams73 said:


> well to some of us u.per's as called above this person deserves great respect cause this person has the balls the size of bowling balls. hope fully the dnr will start to get the message. or start to relocate them down state.


 

you can keep the wolves up there...we got cougars down here....


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## Wizard3686 (Aug 30, 2005)

in all the years i loved up there i didnt see a wolf untill last year and we seen 6 in a field waiting for a deer to come in then we seen another 8 3 days later over 20 miles away then durning the winter my grandparents said they had 3 different groups cross there deck around 6 in the morning and hit the ice on the lake that they live on and run across it another guy who is firend of the family said he was walking one day right by our house heading to my grandparents and he said he felt like sumthing was fallowing him he looked up on a ridge right across from my dads house and there was 3 wolfs on top of the ridge he said he didnt see no more but were sure there was a couple more


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## FieldWalker (Oct 21, 2003)

grizzlyadams73 said:


> well to some of us u.per's as called above this person deserves great respect cause this person has the balls the size of bowling balls. hope fully the dnr will start to get the message. or start to relocate them down state.


And a brain the size of the wolves. I hope then man is caught and that it makes the headlines as much as the carcass did.


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

A bunch a freakin poachers is all I can say about a person who shoots animals illegally are talks about doing it! We should do to poachers here the same as what happens to them in Africa.


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## wrenchman (Jun 23, 2003)

I said in the last post on wolves this typ of thing will happen and we will see it more often if the feds and the dnr dont start to controll the animals and be visible doing it.
The locals are starting to be vocal about it when the wolves are liveing on there pets or they are worryed about the pets they will kill them and youse the 3 S system.
Just for the record i do hope they catch the person that did this and give him hell.


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## FieldWalker (Oct 21, 2003)

wrenchman said:


> I said in the last post on wolves this typ of thing will happen and we will see it more often if the feds and the dnr dont start to controll the animals and be visible doing it.
> The locals are starting to be vocal about it when the wolves are liveing on there pets or they are worryed about the pets they will kill them and youse the 3 S system.
> Just for the record i do hope they catch the person that did this and give him hell.


I believe this is stereotyping "locals"

As with many other ideas/thoughts a few bad apples can put a dark cloud over a general public.

Living on their pets? How do you honestly type that? Who actually thinks that? It is a pet owner's responsibility to properly take care of their pets. If a Timber Wolf takes out a a dog living on a chain, is it the wolf(ves)'s fault, or the ignorant pet owner for putting that animal in that type of situation?

I just wish the "locals" that are being "more vocal" would spend a little bit of time educating themselves about the situation versus their current propaganda technique.


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## gregm (Feb 13, 2002)

boehr said:


> We should do to poachers here the same as what happens to them in Africa.


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## Sib (Jan 8, 2003)

Man, if the locals start killing what's really bringing the deer numbers down that region is going to have a lot less people. :tdo12:


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## duncan (Feb 23, 2005)

Low numbers of deer can be attrubuted too a wolf that walks up right and makes fire come from the end of a stick. The woods is not a free meat market to these predators . No reason to blame the real Wolf.


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## D_Hunter (Aug 22, 2004)

grizzlyadams73 said:


> well to some of us u.per's as called above this person deserves great respect ......


:rant: 

There's a thought. Lets put POACHERS on a pedestal !!


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## yooperkenny (Jul 13, 2004)

Low deer numbers in the Lake Superior watershed are primarily because 

loss of good habitat without regeneration along with 
severe winters resulting in death from starvation/hypothermia
Also, has the fact been established that this wolf was poached? It could have died some other way such as being hit by a car, disease, or old age - I'm just saying we don't have many facts to go on here but everyone is jumping to conclusions. 

I just had 2 cents I wanted to throw away on another circular arguement


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## U.P. Whackmaster (Oct 13, 2005)

Mojo, 
 You`re missing the point all together! We here in the U.P. don`t and haven`t wanted the wolves to begin with! We weren`t asked if we wanted them here, an upper echelon predator. We don`t freak out if we see a coyote near our children or fluffy because we kill it! Threat extiguished!!! Same thing with a bear. We should have the same latitude with wolves. If they try to eat fluffy or our children, kill it. Are you getting the picture now????? Back in the day if wolves ate cattle, sheep, etc, they were eradicated. Now they are caudled. Mojo, do you know why you don`t see documented cases of wolf attacks? It because they get suppessed by the anti-hunting media and yogurt-suckers. That`s a no brainer. 
 I am proud to be a Yooper. I work hard, play even harder. I`m not a poacher and never have been. I do believe that if the MDNR wants to spend my license dollar adn the USFWS wants to spend my tax dollars, it better be on something worthwhile and I want some input. Enuff said!


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## mojo (Jul 23, 2003)

When i wrote that I wasn't making a statement about whether they should or shouldn't be there. I have my own opinion about that but I don't even live in michigan so my opinion is really moot. However, fear of being attacked or using the "safetly" issue really isn't a valid reason or excuse to get rid of them. Also I wasn't saying you or yoopers or sportsman freak out about yotes, i was drawing a comparison to the soccer moms in their subdivisions who do. As for the pets issue, think about the hurricane. Many people said it was those peoples's fault because they knew it was coming, refused to flee and didn't take any precautions beforehand. Just as you don't want wolves there I'm sure they didn't want the hurricane to hit, but wolves are there and the hurricane did hit. Not wanting them there is no excuse not to take protective measures for your dog (if it's a cat and outside it deserves to be eaten or shot). Granted to some people this means shooting them and well that is their opinion it would seem smarter to learn to coexist instead of risking a hefty fine for shooting one.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Has there been a follow up on the facts of how the wolf died? Why is it assumed that this animal was illegally killed by a Yooper? Maybe it was a Cheesehead or Troll who accidently hit it with their imported car one the way to a wine & cheese party.



> *Quote by Mojo* For the record, there has not been one documented death of a person from wolves in the 20th century.


Link to Human Wolf Attacks

I guess it depends on what documentation you look for.  

Wolves are here to stay but they have already exceeded their social carrying capacity, thus the man-wolf conflict. They are expanding their range due to over population and will be coming to a neighborhood near you. :lol: 

We all agree that the wolf is a wilderness animal but now they are far removed from that. I've lost track on the number of adult wolves I've seen. I've had a set of 4 pups hang out most of the summer in one of my plots. My next door neighbor had a cow killed and eaten live by wolf. This is just one example of too many wolves that many thousands of Yooper's experience every year.

It's hard to find a camp in our area who doesn't have a story of someone shooting at a wolf. It will only get worse as this predator's numbers expand. I have no plans on illegally killing one but I'm sure I will use the famous Ollie North excuse of "I have no recollection" if I hear of a first hand account of an illegal kill.


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## NCHunter (Oct 27, 2005)

boehr said:


> A bunch a freakin poachers is all I can say about a person who shoots animals illegally are talks about doing it! We should do to poachers here the same as what happens to them in Africa.


Exactly, I think that just sick, that's a wild animal and that's poaching, a bunch of real tools, anybody who would kill a free wild animal without any other reason besides eating it is just plain disgusting, I agree with fieldwalker....total abuse of privilege.


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## mojo (Jul 23, 2003)

It's also in the wording, i said death, not attacks, and limited it to N america in the 20th century. I'm sure are accounts back in the day but I don't think you can really call those reputable. I did see a national geographic special on those wolves is India though, that was nuts, but they weren't timber wolves. Yes i found that site as well. That site is pretty biased however and has an agendal. Either way, my point is that dogs and deer are the leading cause of animal deaths in this country and you cannot possibly say that wolves are more dangerous than either, or lighting, or bees. If you're really worried about public safety then allow unrestricted deer hunts to extirminate them


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

I dont live, hunt, or even travel to the up very often so I dont care if there is wolves, but I dont want them in the lower. If a coyote attacks my livestock or pets I kill it. When the neighbors rotwiller killed my daughters cat and harrased some livestock the 12 ga in the back hall got loaded with buckshot, fortunately another neighbor got the dog so I was spared the hassel. I doubt many people, who live there, would favor bring back cougars to se michigan but its been proven in LA county that they can adapt to a suburban or nearly urban area. People who live in an area should have the most input in decisions like the wolves. I bet there are a lot of people who would grab a gun if they saw a person in their back yard tearing up a pet. Predators look real nice on posters and tee shirts, you know the tourists will buy them. I not saying wolves should be eliminated but the people who have to live with them should have the most say.


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## grizzlyadams73 (Jul 13, 2003)

whackmaster is right on with his points. take for example this just happened last night. 
aunt lives on the lake here. last night she was home alone and could here some thing outside. turned the outside lights on opened the door armed with her 9mm nothing was to be found little while later same noises. turned on the light to her deck there were 5 yes 5 wolves standing on her gated off deck eating the suet from the bird feeder. after the light was turned on they just stood there and looked at her through the window for a minute and then slowly sauntered off.
so ther theory of your pets being safe behind a fence is bull! if these animals are hungry there gonna get it some how.

second
have any of you experts see a deer killed by a wolf? the day before opener i got to see the gruesome scene of a deer that was killed by wolves. for more then a mile i followed blood, hair and what not scatteerd throught the woods. and not one drag mark so the hole time that deer was still alive. got to be one hell of a way to die. 
here's a pic of what was left

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/grizzlyadams73/eab9418f.jpg


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## plugger (Aug 8, 2001)

Wouldnt that picture look nice on a tee shirt!


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## SR-Mechead (Jan 25, 2004)

grizzlyadams73 said:


> whackmaster is right on with his points. take for example this just happened last night.
> aunt lives on the lake here. last night she was home alone and could here some thing outside. turned the outside lights on opened the door armed with her 9mm nothing was to be found little while later same noises. turned on the light to her deck there were 5 yes 5 wolves standing on her gated off deck eating the suet from the bird feeder. after the light was turned on they just stood there and looked at her through the window for a minute and then slowly sauntered off.
> so ther theory of your pets being safe behind a fence is bull! if these animals are hungry there gonna get it some how.
> 
> Did your aunt call the dnr and voice her concern,and if she did what did they say. If she did not them shame on her. Myself I think a wolf is a worthless piece of crap, but we do have laws and until someone will change them we have to obey them. I leaved in Wisconsin for three years and they have the same problem. The people up by the Michigan border have seen packs of 20. This is not a good thing


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## woodsrat (Jan 4, 2005)

History shows that Wolves and Humans don't mix together very well. Here is what Norway did to solve the problem. Maybe it could work here.

*New wolf controversy in Norway* 


_This has started a new controversy surrounding Norwegian wolf management. During 2003 - 2004 the Norwegian parliament debated and agreed upon a new predator policy which included the setting of national goals for each of the large carnivore species (wolf, wolverine, lynx and bear) within different regions. For wolves, a special management zone was created along the border with Sweden, with the goals of having 3 annually reproducing packs completely within Norway, plus an unspecified number of packs straddling the border. It was specified that any pairs or packs that establish themselves outside the management zone should be rapidly removed in order to prevent the inevitable conflict with depredation on livestock. Finally, it was recommended that hunters should be allowed to begin hunting wolves as soon as possible so as to help reduce some of the social conflicts associated with wolves - it was felt that allowing hunting wolves would reduce conflicts and increase acceptance of this species by allowing some control by local inhabitants. By allowing hunting, it is also hoped that this will "normalize" the status of the species as the case was previously for lynx, which earlier was a very controversial species but which today is generally accepted. _


_The present action is a consequence of this new policy that passed through parliament with cross-party support in May 2004. The areas that have been opened for wolf hunting lies outside the management zone in areas with substantial numbers of sheep. There are currently believed to be two pairs in the region. One of these pairs is known to consist of a father - daughter pair (who apparently bred in summer 2004, but no pups are known to have survived), and the other pair is so recently established and little is known about their status. The hunting is currently open for hunters that have applied for licenses to take part, and is being authorized under damage control legislation rather than as a normal hunting quota. Preliminary results from this years monitoring indicate that there are currently 2 packs totally within the Norwegian management zone and an uncertain number that straddle the border (in winter 2003-2004 there were 3 packs and 2 pairs along the border and an additional 6 packs and 7 pairs entirely in Sweden; see http://nidaros.nina.no/Overvaking/Ulv/statusulv01112004.pdf for the report on last winters status - English abstract included, and www.skandulv.nina.no for news in 3 languages). At present 11 reproductions are confirmed along with one probable for the summer of 2004. A total of 12 reproductions would be a new record for this population. _

_The controversy is currently not so much about wolf hunting per se which in principle appears to have widespread support among rural communities, the general public and many conservationists. The relevant debate is twofold. Firstly, it is about whether opening for hunting at this point in time endangers the survival of the Scandinavian wolf population. Secondly, it is about the very small number of packs, and the small management zone, which Norway's politicians have set as their national goal. In effect these restrictive goals imply that most of the responsibility for conserving the Scandinavian wolf population falls onto Sweden. With respect to the first point there is no formal statistical analysis concerning the population effect of removing these 5 wolves, so the effects are unknown. Also, the genetic identity of the second pair is not known. As Scandinavia's wolves are founded by only 3 individuals and the effects of inbreeding are already becoming evident it is crucial to allow any new immigrants from Finland or Russia to breed. The Swedish management authorities recently refused to issue a permit to kill a wolf because genetic analysis revealed he was a fresh immigrant. With respect to the second point, these low population goals have been set by parliament, so it will require a massive display of voter protest to convince parliament that the general public actually wants more wolves in Norway. At present it is only the anti-wolf views that get widespread media coverage. If allowing this hunt helps to increase public acceptance remains to be seen. _
​


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## grizzlyadams73 (Jul 13, 2003)

others have called the dnr and have gotten the attitude of so what, don't bother us.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

I would have tried hanging the suet bag out of reach of the wolves...suet's cheap, you can get it right at the grocery store...  

I'll bet she has bears hanging off that suet bag all the time-they REALLY like suet...  so what's the big deal about a handful of wolves? Gives you something to look at in the middle of a dull UP winter...  

Seriously, if those wolves were eating suet off someone's porch, they were pretty hungry, which means they haven't been dining well on deer, beavers, or anything else. Which means it's only a matter of time, and a couple of hard winters, and the wolf population will drop. 

All I get on my suet bag is chickadees, and the occasional raccoon during warmer spells-I would be thrilled to look out my door and see a wolf, but I'd do whatever it took in a non-lethal manner to make sure they knew their boundaries. 

I understand there needs to be a balance between people and wolves, but if you ask me, the balance leans far too much to the human side, and no one's suggesting we get rid of them. 

If it weren't for the altar a lot of people place deer on as a species, we wouldn't have half the problems with wolves that we have. No one's hollering about how the wolves are eating the moose, are they? But they are. 

Farmers in the UP have always had a hard time trying to make a living-let's face it, the UP isn't exactly paradise, weather-wise, or with any of the wildlife that's up there, for a farmer trying to survive. There are better places to consider raising cattle or growing hay, which is about all the UP will support in the way of crops, except during the occasional rare warm summer.


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## glock29 (Mar 16, 2005)

Linda G. said:


> If it weren't for the altar a lot of people place deer on as a species, we wouldn't have half the problems with wolves that we have. No one's hollering about how the wolves are eating the moose, are they? But they are.


Strangely, I find myself agreeing with this statement from Linda G. It is the driving force behind this issue. The emotion that Whackmaster shows is exactly how a growing number of yoopers who live in the heavy snow areas of the UP feel...including myself. Take a look at the article in the new American Hunter about coyote predation on deer...difference is...we have the power to control them in our hunting areas. Nobody complains much about yotes..we just hunt them!!! There is presently no controls on wolves....that's the problem...they are multiplying and we can only watch. In areas with low deer density, which happen to be areas with heavy snow fall, the results of a pack over one winter can be devastating. The only good thing is they are moving South...and coming to a swamp near you. It's really sad to listen to the stories of some of the more well known UP deer camps that now talk of seeing a track as the biggest event of the season. These are certain areas which don't matter to you if you don't have a camp there. So the FWS better get off there a's and do something cause were sinking in the North....a little management would be in order.

As far as my pets go....my yard is fenced in to the guy who made that stupid suggestion... I guess my dogs can never bird hunt again, go to camp, or follow me on snow shoes, I'm sure they will understand, I'll just kennel them for the rest of their miserable lives.... That is the dumbest suggestion I have ever heard...:rant: I have a better solution...I still do what I want on my land...go where I want for hikes....hunt birds....dogs go with me all the time.....and so does a gun. I never leave home without it....:evil: 

BTW...this thread is getting really long and going where these wolf threads always go...I need to go to work.... 

Merry Christmas to all of you and Happy New Year....I do enjoy your company and opinions(even when their wrong.. )....


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## tdejong302 (Nov 28, 2004)

Its sad that now when I walk our property I carry a pistol for the safety of myself and others. Eventually the wolf will start to spread to the lower peninsula and some of the people that don't understand our frustration will soon experience it first hand. The picture on the previous post shows how wonderful of a predator the wolf is. It not only kills for food, it kills for fun. Playtime will be in your back yards soon. The first step towards limiting the numbers of these vicious predators is to send them where the money, numbers of people/voters and political clout is at. 

So please don't shoot anymore U.P. wolves. The more their number increase the more they will expand their ranges.


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## U.P. Whackmaster (Oct 13, 2005)

Linda G., SR-Mechead, 
 You are missing the point completely! Number one, Grizzly Adam`s aunt could call the MDNR till she totally exhausted herself and get no action. Their attitude is "so what!" Remember folks, it was they in conjunction with the USFWS who brought the giant rats here with out our input. Read this carefully- without our input. I`ll bet that if they tried to re-introduce the wolf in the L.P. there would be fur-a-flyin`! Protests, rallys, etc. It`s okay to re-introduce those wolves in the U.P. because there aren`t many Yoopers and we only have to visit there two weeks out of the year. Heck, most opf them are poachers anyway. Hey, the hunting sucks because ther aren`t any deer!! Jeez, I wonder why? 
 As for Linda G.`s wonderful retort, we should be able to hang our suet balls anywhere we want, especially in our own yards! Suets cheap, yeah, so are bullets! Ths only thing those wolves are good for is target practice. They have no ecological significance anymore. We were fine without them! Once there were no more predators, the whitetails rebounded. Sure we hav ehad hard winters in th epast and still their numbers rebounded. They say bad winters, reduced wintering habitat, are the reason their numbers are down. I don`t buy it. We`ve had all of that in the past, we still had good numbers. What is the one part of the equation that since it was announced, caused the deer numbers to significantly drop? You got it, wolves. Pure and simple. We didn`t ask or were asked if we wanted them. Rammed down our throats. You also said that they were hungry because they were eating the suet ball. Yeah, they were hungry. They ate thenselves out of their range. What`s next........
 Many of you said they are here to stay and we need to get used to living with them. That`s fine by me, but give me the latitude to curb their population and defend myself if neccessary! It is a matter of time before they attack a child. A number of years ago, a pack of neighborhood dogs attacked and killed a little girl in the National Mine area. Now, if these dogs who were supposedly domesticated did this, what`s to stop a "wild"animal, a pack hunter such as a wolf from doing thee same? Absolutely nothing! Remember, they were on Grizzly Adam`s aunts porch, fence didn`t stop then and they certainly weren`t afraid of Aunty. Enuff said!


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

No, it doesn't do anyone any good to call the DNR about wolves-not when they're managed by the USFWS...the DNR's hands, despite several efforts and court cases in the last year to rectify the situation and allow for some management, are completely tied. 

It's a waste of a dime to call the DNR. If people were educated on wolf management in this state, they would know that. 

They would also know that the DNR, nor the USFWS, DID NOT RE-INTRODUCE THE WOLVES...once and for all, that's PURE bar talk...the wolves walked in, from Wisconsin and Minnesota!! 

What would you have done, a 20 foot fence across the state line?? Well, just think of all the non-resident deer that would stop, too!!

 

I just love this one, whackmaster...

"They have no ecological significance anymore. We were fine without them! Once there were no more predators, the whitetails rebounded."

Sorry, this is incredibly ignorant...the biggest predator of all is man...and once again, there is more to life in the UP than whitetail worship.


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## Dawg (Jan 17, 2003)

U.P. Whackmaster said:


> Mojo, do you know why you don`t see documented cases of wolf attacks? It because they get suppessed by the anti-hunting media and yogurt-suckers. That`s a no brainer.


Well now we know what happened to the wolf that was dropped off - it was the gunman on the grassy knoll. I read the anti-wolf link and found 1 North American human death dating back to 1830!

The great UP dilemma, going out at night and facing the wolves or going out during the day and knowing that your shadow will be behind you. :gaga:


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## glock29 (Mar 16, 2005)

U.P. Whackmaster said:


> Suets cheap, yeah, so are bullets!


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## schopie4 (Oct 14, 2004)

U.P. Whackmaster said:


> Remember folks, it was they in conjunction with the USFWS who brought the giant rats here with out our input. Read this carefully- without our input.







U.P. Whackmaster said:


> We didn`t ask or were asked if we wanted them. Rammed down our throats.




Apparently you don't remember that they only tried to reintroduce wolves once, and all four of them were killed within a year as a result of human activity. The wolves we have now have naturally returned, they were not shoved down your throat without input. If you dont want them here, direct your complaints to mother nature.




U.P. Whackmaster said:


> That`s fine by me, but give me the latitude to curb their population and defend myself if neccessary!




Michigan is working to have the grey wolf reclassfied as threatened. This would enable them to manage the herd. Here is a link to the Michigan Wolf Management Plan

http://www.wildlife.utah.gov/wolf/pdf/wolf_mgmtplan.pdf


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## n.pike (Aug 23, 2002)

Linda G. said:


> They would also know that the DNR, nor the USFWS, DID NOT RE-INTRODUCE THE WOLVES...once and for all, that's PURE bar talk...the wolves walked in, from Wisconsin and Minnesota!!
> 
> Sorry, this is incredibly ignorant...the biggest predator of all is man...and once again, there is more to life in the UP than whitetail worship.


There are two things in the UP.....whitetails and snowmobiling. They drive the economy, keep the resorts alive, and provide the bulk of financial gain for the region. Now its almost down to one, thanks to a total lack of management

If they were not introduced to the UP, shouldn't they be treated as an invasive species and therefore eradicated.


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## WAUB-MUKWA (Dec 13, 2003)

The wolves are over their carrying capacity. Its common sense to a Yooper that the DNR and the US couldn't count their own people the way they do deer counts, moose, and wolf counts. Common sense will tell you there is close to 1,000 wolves in the U.P. and not 421 like the Fed's and the state keeps saying. Do the math. Some doofus of a judge out west thought he knew what to do, so like most politicians he abused his powers and stopped the management.
A wolf is nothing but a wild dog and if the fed's or state can't get their head outta da arse then the people will continue to take control and manage them on their own.
If the feds say there are 83 wolves alone in Gogebic county then multiply that by atleast 3-5 X's. It's not just the lead female that breeds, its a few of the females in each pack that have pup's.
Time to make a few drives thru the Batty Doe forest and get some wild dogs running across the straits by the dozens headed south towards the DisneyLand part of Michigan. :lol: :yikes: :tdo12:


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## boehr (Jan 31, 2000)

Yea, there will always been poachers, it's called job security for COs.


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## U.P. Whackmaster (Oct 13, 2005)

Linda G, Schopie4, 
Once again you are stating things that aren`t simply true. No, the wolves didn`t walk over here from WI. OR MINN. They were re-introduced back in the early to mid 70`s. We were seeing wolf packs as early as that. WHen we would ask the MDNR about them they said you aren`t seeing wolves, those are coyotes. Then we asked why was there was a MDNR truck present each and everytime the wolves were sighted they replied that they were doing timber surveys. Huh, must think we are dumb Yoopers! The loggers and woodsman I know have forgotten more about the outdoors and wildlife than most of us will ever know. The woodsmen and loggers that saw them knew without a doubt they were wolves. Why would the MDNR go thru great lengths to lie about it? Because if the majority of Yoopers knew then that they were wolves, the re-introduction wouldn`t have been sucessful at all if you get my point. So forget your mis-information about them just walking over here form Wisconsin and Minnesota. THey were driven here by truck. The re-introduction wasn`t a failure, oh no just the opposite, take a look at our deer herd now. `Nuff said!


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

That's bar talk...sorry, but it is. Every one of those FOUR wolves that were re-introduced back in the 70's died-they were collared, and all four collars were recovered, as I recall. Look up the records, or better yet, try to talk to someone from the DNR in a logical manner. 

As for what drives the UP, it's like anywhere else-if you can't make a living on what's there, move. But there is also the timber industry, mining to some degree, and good old tourism...snowmobiling and deer are NOT the only things "driving" the UP.

The economy up in the UP is not one little bit different than it is in much of the northern Lower-bad, and getting worse. You could say that the N>P depends only on snowmobiling and deer, if you didn't know better. There's no manufacturing in the northern Lower any more, very little farming, and very little retail compared to the southern part of the state. But we don't think that we depend solely on a deer herd to survive...that's absurd.


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## glock29 (Mar 16, 2005)

glock29 said:


> this thread is getting really long and going where these wolf threads always go...


Nowhere......:sad: 

I hope the moderators close this thread soon and save us from ourselves....:help:


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## U.P. Whackmaster (Oct 13, 2005)

Linda G., 
 You can believe what you will. Bar talk, hardly, witnessed it with my own eyes. You talk like a person who believes everything they read and listens to everything you hear from the MDNR propoganda machine. I`ve given my .02. Take it for what its worth. See ya.


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## grizzlyadams73 (Jul 13, 2003)

linda G. quote

They would also know that the DNR, nor the USFWS, DID NOT RE-INTRODUCE THE WOLVES...once and for all, that's PURE bar talk...the wolves walked in, from Wisconsin and Minnesota!! 
===========================
What would you have done, a 20 foot fence across the state line?? Well, just think of all the non-resident deer that would stop, too!!


there should be a fence it would keep the cwd deer out of our state


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

> *Quote by mojo* It's also in the wording, i said death, not attacks, and limited it to N america in the 20th century. I'm sure are accounts back in the day but I don't think you can really call those reputable


How about one that is more recent? Hey, do the rivers in Ohio still catch fire? 

Wolves suspected in Ontario man's death
Updated Fri. Nov. 11 2005 2:57 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

Police say they suspect wolves are responsible for the death of an Ontario student whose mauled body was discovered in northern Saskatchewan. 

Here's a link to a recent death, wolves are suspect


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## FieldWalker (Oct 21, 2003)

WAUB-MUKWA said:


> The wolves are over their carrying capacity. Its common sense to a Yooper that the DNR and the US couldn't count their own people the way they do deer counts, moose, and wolf counts. Common sense will tell you there is close to 1,000 wolves in the U.P. and not 421 like the Fed's and the state keeps saying. Do the math.


Over their carrying capacity? How do you know this... how is this calculated? What are the results of the "over capacity." If the result is a smaller deer harvest for our hunters, then it seems as though a hunter may have to do a little more homework next year before 11/15. Michigan (MDNR) isn't going to drop the white-tail deer by the wayside... It is our cashcow.

I don't understand the comparison b/w people of the L.P. and the U.P., common sense to a "Yooper" or a "Troll" is that of the same. Ignorance on either account being dragged around forums such as this one does nobody any good. 

Last winters counts were 406 Timber Wolves in 86 packs. Please do not compare the population gathering techniques of the Timber Wolf with animals that do not live in packs (most with collared animals) and that have a population greatly minute to that of the other animals. Science and propation of these animals tells us that the population will double during the summer months with a 35% mortality rate of pups. That along with the deaths of the more mature wolves. So- math/biology does show that the population is growing... That cannot be argued.



U.P. Whackmaster said:


> You`re missing the point all together! We here in the U.P. don`t and haven`t wanted the wolves to begin with! We weren`t asked if we wanted them here, an upper echelon predator.


The U.P. never asked for your presence either.

Anyone who actually has feelings about this topic should stop reading this garbage and actually do some research. Not hop on the Internet for the next 15 minutes and find wolf slander nor wolf huggers, but actual scientific data. Sadly, this means you may have to leave your computer chair where you feel like a wealth of knowledge behind your keyboard, but the fact remains 90% of the people reading this already have their opinions on the topic and they wont change from what any of us type.

Also- as I've said on a few other Timber Wolf related threads- if you are throwing out numbers and statistics or generalizations for that matter, give us your source or shut up and stop typing. We have enough idiots with opinions already.

Secondy also  - Anyone actually interested in learning more about the Timber Wolf, feel free to contact me and I can get you in touch with some people in your area.

-Scott K


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## FieldWalker (Oct 21, 2003)

Luv2hunteup said:


> How about one that is more recent? Hey, do the rivers in Ohio still catch fire?
> 
> Wolves suspected in Ontario man's death
> Updated Fri. Nov. 11 2005 2:57 PM ET
> ...


This one amuses me... A body was found in the woods... Cause of death unknown- A wolf, coyote, etc., fed on the body- odd an oppurtunistic animals like a wolf or coyote to do such a thing... don't they get the paper?

I saw a deer on I75 just North of Kinross a couple days ago with a Bald eagle feeding on it, it certainly must have killed it.


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## mojo (Jul 23, 2003)

Yeah i did read that yesterday after posting, great timing. Either way, nobody should be worried about being attacked by a wolf. While you are trying to get me on technicalities and semantics you cannot honestly tell me that you think wolves really pose a threat to people. Deer and dogs are far more dangerous, Can you agree with me on that? As for ohio rivers, I personally can't stand the environmental regulations in this state, but I do happen to live on the Maumee and I'll let you know of any fires when I'm out slaying the walleye this spring that run in from St. Clair. If you've never been you should give it a try, beats anything else in the country that time of year.

By the way, 218 people were killed last year from horses but I'm not going to strap on my 9 when I walk around a farm......
http://www.anapsid.org/pdv-boid.html


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## WAUB-MUKWA (Dec 13, 2003)

[qoute]Last winters counts were 406 Timber Wolves in 86 packs. Please do not compare the population gathering techniques of the Timber Wolf with animals that do not live in packs (most with collared animals) and that have a population greatly minute to that of the other animals. Science and propation of these animals tells us that the population will double during the summer months with a 35% mortality rate of pups. That along with the deaths of the more mature wolves. So- math/biology does show that the population is growing... That cannot be argued.[/qoute]


Even the DNR Wolf dude from Crystal Falls admitted it was over 600 this summer on the Ask the DNR show on TV 13 Marquette 2 months ago. The wolves alone in Gogebic county are over their limit and will only get worse. Its just a matter of time.


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## luv 2 bowhunt (Mar 27, 2005)

I fully believe WAUB-MUKWA's 1,000 wolf number for the U.P..
I live in the Southern most tip of the U.P. and we have those overgrown vermin here too.
Even on the conservative side: the "experts say that each wolf will kill and eat 20 deer per year. Well with 1,000 wolves that is 20,000 deer.
Now I fully believe also in the "Kill for fun" aspect of the wolves. I think that you can double the number of deer killed by wolves every year, now we are at 40,000.
Guess what the wolves actually kill MORE deer than hunters.

According to the dnr's own numbers, U.P. deer hunters killed 30,000 deer in 2005.


Here is the scariest part of this whole scenario:
All of the wolf lovin, bunny kissin, tree huggin, yougurt suckin wacko's, peta and humane society included. Are excited that the wolves are doing such a great job at "managing excess deer numbers"
Guess what hunters, the wolves are going to take our place.
This could be the end of hunting if we are not careful.
With no control on wolves or other predators why do we need hunting?
We as hunters had better unite and fight for what we love or it will be gone.
Just look, one stinkin judge from Oregon can tell us that we cannot manage the wolves in the U.P.. Whose to say that the hunting rights aren't next??????????

So I don't think that it is totally a "poaching" issue as Boehr always loves to call it.
It is more of a "keep wolf numbers in check" measure that is going to have to take place or we will no longer be hunting in great places like the U.P..
I ask Boehr and others it his position to rally and fight the feds on issues such as these to keep hunting alive.
Average Joe citizen doesn't have much of a voice on "big issues" .
Let's get Humphries, Garner, Clute, and all of the CO's and Biologists to get a WOLF SEASON FOR 2006.
I was told right out by Jim Hammil a former MI dnr Biologist, that if the U.P. could sustain a wolf population of 100 animals that WE WOULD HAVE A RESTRICTED WOLF SEASON. Well let's get to it.
No more lies and promises. let's get it done.


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## Rudi's Dad (May 4, 2004)

Ok, the wolves just meandered in Mi from some other State, all on their own. Suddenly, we have to spend sportmens dollars to count, and watch and do all the studies of these misplaced animals. Now they are protected, and collared and good money spent on an animal that "just wandered in".
If USFWS and MIDNR quit worrying about them, and managed the "other native birds and animals" we all wouldnt be having this discussion. 
They were non existant and non native for way too many years to suddenly think we *NEED* them now.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

How much a state receives in Pittman Robertson funds, which are dispersed by the federal government and come from sportsmen and women all over the country, is based on a number of things, one of them being the number of endangered species in a state and how much is needed by that particular state to keep track of them. 

Since Michigan has Kirtland's Warblers, (you'd be surprised how much is spent on them and we'll NEVER hunt them), Trumpeter Swans, and wolves, we get more funding.

We aren't supporting the wolves all on our own. In fact, in some part, they're supporting us. 

Luv-again, the lack of education on this issue simply amazes me. The entire Michigan DNR could jump up and down and scream for a wolf season all they like, but it's NOT UP TO THE MICHIGAN DNR...it's up to the federal government...so you'd better start lobbying Secretary of the Interior Norton.

It doesn't matter WHAT Hamill may have said, or anyone else from the state of Michigan.


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## Rudi's Dad (May 4, 2004)

Linda, I didnt say we should shoot them,(not that I would feel bad if it were so) I just marveled how stupidly important they seem to be just cause they wandered over the State line. Make no mistake, Pittman Robertson monies come from hunters and fishermans dollars. Not meant for K.W. and Wolf studies IMHO. We seem to reach farther and farther over the (hunt, trap, and fish lines) to stupidly spend money. If the Feds want to worry about them, have USFWS send their wardens and biologists in our state and do all the support. Our DNR shouldnt waste a minute or a dollar on wolves or cougars.


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## FieldWalker (Oct 21, 2003)

luv 2 bowhunt said:


> I fully believe WAUB-MUKWA's 1,000 wolf number for the U.P..
> I live in the Southern most tip of the U.P. and we have those overgrown vermin here too.
> Even on the conservative side: the "experts say that each wolf will kill and eat 20 deer per year. Well with 1,000 wolves that is 20,000 deer.
> Now I fully believe also in the "Kill for fun" aspect of the wolves. I think that you can double the number of deer killed by wolves every year, now we are at 40,000.
> ...


Please give your sources or unplug your keyboard- 
I'd especially like the source on "Kill for fun"
54,000 deer were killed by starvation/disease last winter
Timber Wolves hunt the weaker animals and genetically enhance the quality of deer herds by doing so.



WAUB-MUKWA said:


> Even the DNR Wolf dude from Crystal Falls admitted it was over 600 this summer on the Ask the DNR show on TV 13 Marquette 2 months ago. The wolves alone in Gogebic county are over their limit and will only get worse. Its just a matter of time.


I covered that with the info about populations doubling in the summer months


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

I know what you meant, I fully agree with much of what you believe as well. 

But it doesn't work like that, and I don't believe was ever intended to. 

As far as I know, PR funds were originally intended back in 1937 to help improve wildlife habitat for all wildlife, with a special emphasis on restoring endangered species like the antelope, bison, and grizzly bear, not just to improve habitat for hunted game species. Wolves, Kirtland's Warblers, etc., are all a part of that goal.


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## SR-Mechead (Jan 25, 2004)

FieldWalker said:


> Please give your sources or unplug your keyboard-
> I'd especially like the source on "Kill for fun"
> 54,000 deer were killed by starvation/disease last winter
> Timber Wolves hunt the weaker animals and genetically enhance the quality of deer herds by doing so.
> ...


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## FieldWalker (Oct 21, 2003)

SR-Mechead said:


> You have to have your ducks in a roll and be able to have prove on what you say. You can say you have a 1000 and they can say that there is only 400. Who is right is the question. Its time for the hunters to organize and get the answers that you want, or at least try.


I have no problem citing my sources- I'll be back at my house at the end of this week.

The thing people have to understand is- the population survey is done during the winter- so the number quoted is supposed to be the surviving (possible breeding population) of wolves- not those that include the summer pups that didn't make it as well the older wolves that didn't make it.


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