# Here it comes Anti's, Lies, and other!!



## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

Seaarkshooter said:


> "Kill More Wolves Please", I like it!
> 
> :thumbup:
> 
> ...


useless Information in them collages today. the calvary Had boots. ever hear of boots and saddles? It was a bugle call. shoes and saddles just dont have the same ring.

This May not be a political fight? But it will be fought in a political arena. or am I missing something again? Someone please tell me that no politics will be involved..................................................I didnt think so. 

If this issue will be decided at the ballot box, how is it not political?

Or are we all just to pure for politics? some how I just dont think so.


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

Dare I speak or should I reserve comment for fear I may not be respected, Gil? 

Irrespective of one's political position of general issues, Gil, one thing is for sure...the antis are more organized in this state than anyone has ever seen before and more influential than most will admit until a Pearl Harbor style attack on their outdoor activity ensues.

Trapping and hound hunting are on the leading edges of that very sharp sword and both our groups know it. We have started working together to that cause and I applaud that. The true test, however, is not whether or not the 10 percent of active members of each of these groups are willing to stand side by side and fight, but whether the other 90 percent are willing to step forward and help before it is too late to educate the majority of the fence sitters whom need to be in order to win at the polls. Sitting back and waiting for someone else to do the hard work and fight the cause for them is just the type of complacency which was the driving force in losing the dove. 

Now, with trapping not being guaranteed as a means of take within any legislation for any animal in the state, when and where is it going to be lost first? We have seen how they have tried to take the bear away with the hound hunters. Was that not sign enough for most to see why it is so critical for everyone to be involved, regardless of your outdoor endeavor?

Anyone wondering yet why it is that joint resolution S, the amendment to change the constitution to include the right to hunt, fish and trap, is stalled in committee? How many have read articles on the issue in all the papers? Many of the "pro sportsman papers" that are reporting on it are conveniently leaving out the fact that it also includes trapping in its language. Now, if the newspaper article writers are so willing to leave out trapping in their discussions for fear of the backlash, what do you think is going on in Lansing? 

Yes, it is going to be fought and potentially lost in the political arena. The fact that you are willing to not let that happen and are willing to proactively work now to ensure that it doesn't happen speaks alot to your character and integrity. You and I have fought tooth and nail about some things, Gil. There are times I wanted to pull my hair out ( or yours), however, I RESPECT you. You're a stand up guy, a regular contributor, and someone willing to stick your neck out. I am proud to call you a fellow trapper.

2014 Ballot: YES for Conservation. No for Out Of State Money!!!


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## Beaverhunter2 (Jan 22, 2005)

Absolutely right this is a political fight. There is no scientific reason to exclude wolves from active management just like there is no scientific reason to exclude trapping or hound hunting from our manners of take.

One other thing that sportsmen and sportswomen need to understand is that this ballot initiative has to do with far more than wolves. It is just as important to duck hunters and deer hunters that it be defeated as it is to trappers and potential wolf hunters. Every time the Anti's have a win somewhere they attack again on another issue. Look at California- they lost foothold and bodygripping traps, then bullets containing lead, then hound hunting and now they are fighting to save their ability to trap bobcats with CAGE TRAPS! What will go next? I bet it will be bowhunting.

I remember reading something one time that went something like this:

"When they came for the Jews I said nothing- I'm not a Jew. Then when they came for Blacks I said nothing- I'm not black. Then when they came for the homosexuals I said nothing- I'm not gay. Then when they came for the Catholics I said nothing- I'm not Catholic. Then when they came for me, no one said anything. There was no one left...."

That mentality gave the Anti's the win on the Dove Bill. Let's see if Michigan's Sportsmen and Sportswomen have learned anything. I sure hope so! If not- we're all screwed.

John


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## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

on this fourm has been harder on hound hunters than I have, and I am not the least bit sorry about that.That being said If they are on board in the upcoming fight, I would have to rethink my position on them. I hope they are, as well as the duck hunters bow hunters shroom hunters popcan hunters anyone who does anything in the outdoors should be on board IMO.

The question is how do we get them there. Its a hike from where we are to where we need to be.One of my favorite sayings is, Its amazing what you can do, when you have no choice.

All I can say is Im In. In for a penny, In for a pound.All you have to do is say where, when, I can and will be there.


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## Beaverhunter2 (Jan 22, 2005)

gilgetter said:


> on this fourm has been harder on hound hunters than I have, and I am not the least bit sorry about that.That being said If they are on board in the upcoming fight, I would have to rethink my position on them. I hope they are, as well as the duck hunters bow hunters shroom hunters popcan hunters anyone who does anything in the outdoors should be on board IMO.
> 
> The question is how do we get them there. Its a hike from where we are to where we need to be.One of my favorite sayings is, Its amazing what you can do, when you have no choice.
> 
> All I can say is Im In. In for a penny, In for a pound.All you have to do is say where, when, I can and will be there.


I'll start off with the fact that the hound hunters supported us with the NRC to get trapping for wolves on public and private land. I was there at a couple different NRC Meetings when they told the Commission that they definitely wanted trapping included in the manners of take. Then there's the fact that the funding the MUCC needed to help get SB288 through the Legislature was split between the trappers and the houndsmen.

I'd say they are definitely in the fight.

As far as where we need people- the NRC has to redo the vote on game species and wolf regs because the certification of the first ballot initiative has put the original season on hold. The DNR will present their recommendations at the next meeting (June 13) and the Commission will decide at the July meeting. There will be a lot of Anti's there. We need a lot of hunters and trappers to be there, too. So far the MTPCA Board has five people coming. The more we have the stronger we are!

Here's a link to the schedule:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/2013_Meeting_Dates_402279_7.pdf

John


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

John,

Could you please post for everyone where on the website one may find the meeting times on the dates posted? At first glance you will see it is not very effective in giving notice of times. I have a hare time seeing where it is.

The worse part about an anti mentality is that it also runs hand in hand with a conspiracy theorist mentality. The NRC has kicked that bees nest recently when they according to antis "authorize[d] the [wolf] hunt at a meeting exactly 18 hours after legally enabled, the minimum time allowed for public notice of the meeting involved." These are their words and it got alot of milage with the quacks, rallying them in a few newspaper comment areas where they were screaming it like it was their new "Alamo" cry.

Like they really need another reason to cry too!

2014 Ballot: YES for Conservation. No for Out Of State Money!!!


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

This is the home state of a good portion of anti's, they have worked their way up the west coast into Canada and Alaska with their anti bs. Now they are headed east and everything that they do is political get it on the ballot stuff. They went as far in Michigan as to almost get salmon wars started in South Haven. Fortunately the police and conservation officers would not offer them protection and threatened to arrest them. Unfortunately we cannot stop them other than to show up in force when it comes time to vote. The other thing that we can do is to try to educate others. If wolf hunting in Michigan is eventually closed more wolves will be killed. I guess that they don't see it that way.


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## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

As far as where we need people- the NRC has to redo the vote on game species and wolf regs because the certification of the first ballot initiative has put the original season on hold. The DNR will present their recommendations at the next meeting (June 13) and the Commission will decide at the July meeting. There will be a lot of Anti's there. We need a lot of hunters and trappers to be there, too. So far the MTPCA Board has five people coming. The more we have the stronger we are!


I can be there if you like? anyone have any info on saturday at cabelas?


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

gilgetter said:


> As far as where we need people- the NRC has to redo the vote on game species and wolf regs because the certification of the first ballot initiative has put the original season on hold. The DNR will present their recommendations at the next meeting (June 13) and the Commission will decide at the July meeting. There will be a lot of Anti's there. We need a lot of hunters and trappers to be there, too. So far the MTPCA Board has five people coming. The more we have the stronger we are!
> 
> 
> I can be there if you like? anyone have any info on saturday at cabelas?


Yes, Gil, gonna need you and maybe another to help Melinda to put up the tent. A few of us are not able to go now. Melinda is going to be there but I have to
teacher a trappers ed course up in Sebewaing because it had to be rescheduled from this past weekend. If either Furminator or Trappered might be interested in going that would be good also. The tent is a good size one that takes three people to put up safely in wind. That I know of there would only be an additional 2 going besides that. I will PM you with the information if you want.
2014 Ballot: YES for Conservation. No for Out Of State Money!!!


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## Beaverhunter2 (Jan 22, 2005)

Seaarkshooter said:


> John,
> 
> Could you please post for everyone where on the website one may find the meeting times on the dates posted? At first glance you will see it is not very effective in giving notice of times. I have a hare time seeing where it is.


Jeez, Dennis!  Ask one of your many kids to teach you how to navigate a website! :lol:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/agnJune13_422691_7.pdf

It would be great if you can make it, Gil. I'll be there for the Wildlife Committee Meeting at 1:00pm and plan to stay for Public Comment. If you want 5 minutes to present your views to the Commission you need to request it by Friday. If you sign up at the meeting you'll get 3 minutes. Email Deb Whipple. She'll need your name, any group you are associated with, and the general topic you plan to speak on. [email protected]

John


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## gilgetter (Feb 28, 2006)

Ill see you about oneish on the 13th. Dont think I need to say much, I will If you would like.just gonna show the flag.


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

Beaverhunter2 said:


> Jeez, Dennis!  Ask one of your many kids to teach you how to navigate a website! :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> John


 The parental controls on the computer don't allow them to go on any political web sites except for the Young Republicans of Oakland County.



2014 Ballot: YES for Conservation. No for Out Of State Money!!!


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## Fur-minator (Nov 28, 2007)

Seaarkshooter said:


> Yes, Gil, gonna need you and maybe another to help Melinda to put up the tent. A few of us are not able to go now. Melinda is going to be there but I have to
> 
> teacher a trappers ed course up in Sebewaing because it had to be rescheduled from this past weekend. If either Furminator or Trappered might be interested in going that would be good also. The tent is a good size one that takes three people to put up safely in wind. That I know of there would only be an additional 2 going besides that. I will PM you with the information if you want.




I will be On Call for work this weekend and the hour & 10 minute drive from work may be pushing it a little for response time. I may try to sneak out if I don't get any calls but I can't promise anything. What time are you setting up?


I will try to get out of work to make the NRC meeting too but not sure yet if I can.


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## Seaarkshooter (Nov 5, 2009)

People be meeting at 8 a.m. for a little light breakfast somewhere nearby and then a set up the tent and materials for the 10 o'clock start. If you would like, send me your telephone number and I'll let you know where we're at when we're there. Thanks for your offer and everything you do for us Mark!

2014 Ballot: YES for Conservation. No for Out Of State Money!!!


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Good Luck. Just want to let you guys know the hunt is still going to be on even if the anti's win. Minnisota and Wisconsin have their hunt why should Michigan be any different? Thanks for your input at the meeting. Just wonder why the meeting is being held in the LP and not the UP. The last that I knew the wolves and all of their problems exist in the UP. It looks like the DNR has a soft spot for the anti's.


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## Swampfoot (Dec 19, 2008)

All I can say is "wow". Been absent from the forum here for a bit,and coming back to find something like this sucks.Protect the wolf they say,keep it special they say,fragile wolf they say......then all of a sudden,a hungry pack snatches one of their kids right out of the back yard.......kill all the wolves they'll say.
Didn't we just see some things like this involving other species?Sometimes,all I can wonder is what the **** are they thinking? Then I realize they aren't thinking at all.Apparently the folks that push for this protection don't understand the wolf at all,especially relating to their den sites.Just wait until one of these people go for a walk in the woods with the wife and kids,and find themselves right smack in the middle of deadville.
Looks like I'm going right out to buy some of those extra large wolf strength footholds.


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## Beaverhunter2 (Jan 22, 2005)

Robert Holmes said:


> Good Luck. Just want to let you guys know the hunt is still going to be on even if the anti's win. Minnisota and Wisconsin have their hunt why should Michigan be any different? Thanks for your input at the meeting. Just wonder why the meeting is being held in the LP and not the UP. The last that I knew the wolves and all of their problems exist in the UP. It looks like the DNR has a soft spot for the anti's.


Wolves are only one small part of the NRC Meeting agenda. The locations are set for the year in December. They move around a bit but a good portion of them are held in the Lansing area. If you've never been to one you should check one out.

John


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