# Layout boat advice



## wateroperator (Nov 8, 2013)

Not trying to hijack the thread but I'm interested in layout hunting and this thread has been very helpful. I just bought a 1860 Crestliner with a 60 tiller. It's not a deep boat but it's wide and incredibly stable. My question is will this boat be good for a tender or will it get me in trouble out there? Thank you


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## deadduck365 (Nov 5, 2010)

wateroperator said:


> Not trying to hijack the thread but I'm interested in layout hunting and this thread has been very helpful. I just bought a 1860 Crestliner with a 60 tiller. It's not a deep boat but it's wide and incredibly stable. My question is will this boat be good for a tender or will it get me in trouble out there? Thank you


I will get beat up over this. A Jon boat is still a Jon boat even if it 28 feet long. Get a deep v for rough conditions. I see more guys with mod v and it freaks me out. Big water turns ugly fast. Jon boats don't belong in rough water in big water. 

Now if you stay in calm water it will work. Don't push it!


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## wateroperator (Nov 8, 2013)

deadduck365 said:


> I will get beat up over this. A Jon boat is still a Jon boat even if it 28 feet long. Get a deep v for rough conditions. I see more guys with mod v and it freaks me out. Big water turns ugly fast. Jon boats don't belong in rough water in big water.
> 
> Now if you stay in calm water it will work. Don't push it!


Oh I agree. Will the boat get me on ducks safely though? I don't want to venture way out anyway. Can a guy get in on some good hunting without venturing way out? Thanks


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## deadduck365 (Nov 5, 2010)

wateroperator said:


> Oh I agree. Will the boat get me on ducks safely though? I don't want to venture way out anyway. Can a guy get in on some good hunting without venturing way out? Thanks


Yes it can work. Yes there can be birds shot close to shore. Diversdown stated they usually are on the edge. That's where it get sketchy. They edge can move fast. Say you sitting on 1-2 footers wind picks up now 3's by time you are done picking up it is 2's on 3's occasional 5-6. Your in trouble! Been there done that in a 16 deep v. Can't imagine it I a job boat. Side height is a big thing. In the summer go out and get sideways is some rough stuff and see how she handles. Think about the weight of the gear and guys an a layout across the front. I am not trying to scare or discourage layout hunting. I can say that I am lucky to have made it back a time or 2. I almost left the decoys an layout once. I know the layout can handle worse conditions than my tender.


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## RiverLarry2 (Nov 1, 2012)

Kawkawlin_hunter said:


> Hey all was hoping to get some advice for layout hunting. I'm a fairly young guy and so are all my hunting partenrs who I hunt with. My old man taught us what we know now but unfortunately he passed a few years before we taught us how to properly hunt from a layout boat. We've gotten by these past few years bagging a few ducks but never really using it to its potential. He taught us the basics of how to set long lines and watch the wind but other then that we're lost. Mostly the advice I'm looking for is how to spot a good area to set up for ducks, how to get into it, and how everyone stores decoys in there boat. We hunt the Saginaw bay out of fin road but next year we plan on trying in front of state park. Any advice would be helpful


This thread started out with a good question by a duck hunter who wants to learn more. And the replies in response have been some of the most expert, considerate, well-thought out posts I've seen recently. Well done fellow lay out hunters. It might be a good idea to turn this thread into a sticky: advice and safety in layout hunting. 

I hunted St. Clair and St. Martin's Bay for about 15 years, many with a layout boat. The only time we got in trouble is when we did something stupid or ignored the weather because one guy was more stubborn than the other guy. 

Here is an example of dumb that ended, by God's grace, humorous. We were set up for cans on Mitchell's Bay, not far out from the town park. It was good diver weather. Over the course of the hunt, it became marginal weather. I told my buddy: "let's pick up." He said, "give it 15 minutes." This happened twice before I said screw it, started the tender and came in to pick him up. 

Waves rocking hard made it difficult to approach the layout smoothly. Tried once, tried twice, tried three times. Got alongside, buddy ready to transfer, boat was unsteady, so he jumped. Didn't make it in the tender. Just hanging along the gunnel. He weighs about 80 pounds more than me. I can't swing him in. Boat starting to drift towards decoy lines. I tell him to hang on as a motor just outside lines so a bad situation doesn't become much worse. He crow hops down to the stern and swings his legs into he boat. 

We picked picked up the decoys and tucked our tails and went to harbor. Glad to be safe. Stopped by the local restaurant in Mitchell's Bay. Sat down in a booth and picked up the menus. Time to exhale and relax, even laugh a bit. Suddenly heard the locals talking. "Did that guy hanging out of the layout boat make it?" 

We slipped down as low as we could in the booth but its hard to be unseen in a restaurant wearing grey camo designed for a layout boat. 

The part in the restaurant was funny. The part in the lake was not funny. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. 

Layout hunting is no place to be stupid.


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## Divers Down (Mar 31, 2008)

wateroperator said:


> Not trying to hijack the thread but I'm interested in layout hunting and this thread has been very helpful. I just bought a 1860 Crestliner with a 60 tiller. It's not a deep boat but it's wide and incredibly stable. My question is will this boat be good for a tender or will it get me in trouble out there? Thank you


Tillers are great for tenders, easy to whip around and clear view of the prop to keep you out of trouble. That heavy modified V ya got will be just fine, a close second to a deep V. Just pick your days and know when to get out of dodge. Good rule of thumb. If it's whitecapping, it's too rough to hunt a fiberglass 1 man. If you have a Kalash you can get away with a little more.


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## Fowl Play (Nov 30, 2014)

I know guys do it with Jon boats and you see commercial ones too. Like dead duck says, it can work. However, conditions can change quickly. Been there and done that and thankful for the 20ft Alaskan we use for a tender. My dad, brother and I came close to leaving everything once. Day started with a west at 10-20, was supposed to turn north 20-30 but not until late afternoon or early evening. Well, the forecast was wrong. It turned at 11am. Once the west wind died down, we knew it was coming so our quick reaction got us about 50% done before the howl came. We went from 1ft to 4ft in a matter of 15 minutes as we were on a huge shallow flat. What Decoy lines that were still out got tangled together. We pulled the down wind layout anchor first, if we hadn't, the layout would of swamped. Some decoys became tangled in the upwind layout anchor line, after the boat swung with the north wind. It happened so darn fast. We kept our heads. Didn't wrap a prop, took us much longer but we got out. And, this happened on a large inland lake, so bad stuff can happen anywhere not just on Erie, Lake Michigan or LSC. Not just in deep water either. It can happen anywhere. Not sure a big Jon would of handled a short 4ft chop.


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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

My friend layout hunts out of the exact same boat. Will handle the chop that a layout will take just fine. Low gunwales are great for transferring. If you are planning long boat rides it will be wet and uncomfortable, especially with the weight of a boat in the bow. Inshore should be great. You will love it. Forget the 14 mile Squaw trips


Fowl Play said:


> I know guys do it with Jon boats and you see commercial ones too. Like dead duck says, it can work. However, conditions can change quickly. Been there and done that and thankful for the 20ft Alaskan we use for a tender. My dad, brother and I came close to leaving everything once. Day started with a west at 10-20, was supposed to turn north 20-30 but not until late afternoon or early evening. Well, the forecast was wrong. It turned at 11am. Once the west wind died down, we knew it was coming so our quick reaction got us about 50% done before the howl came. We went from 1ft to 4ft in a matter of 15 minutes as we were on a huge shallow flat. What Decoy lines that were still out got tangled together. We pulled the down wind layout anchor first, if we hadn't, the layout would of swamped. Some decoys became tangled in the upwind layout anchor line, after the boat swung with the north wind. It happened so darn fast. We kept our heads. Didn't wrap a prop, took us much longer but we got out. And, this happened on a large inland lake, so bad stuff can happen anywhere not just on Erie, Lake Michigan or LSC. Not just in deep water either. It can happen anywhere. Not sure a big Jon would of handled a short 4ft chop.


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## Neubys (Oct 18, 2011)

Handliner84 said:


> Don't overload the boat with people or gear. Also it help to have a core group of people you hunt with so everyone knows what going on it makes it a lot easier with everyone on the same page.


Only one guy is the captain!


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## Jerry Lamb (Aug 3, 2015)

Neubys said:


> Only one guy is the captain!


I put a small paddle in the layout. I noticed it wasn't on the list.


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## Kawkawlin_hunter (Nov 27, 2016)

Thank you all for the good advice come spring time we plan on going out and trying new things seeing the easiest way to set up and all


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Both my boats have a sea anchor already rigged and clipped to the bow eye. Show everyone on the boat how to deploy it, not to just throw it out but to help it get a bite in the water. The moment you foul a prop in heavy seas get that thing out to keep your bow into the waves.

Fishing buddy did not have one, got a wire diver into the prop in a marginal boat for the crew and conditions, before they knew it four guys were swimming and $40k in boat and gear were 80' under them on the bottom of Lake Michigan. They didn't have life jackets on either. Got lucky.


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## fsamie1 (Mar 8, 2008)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> Both my boats have a sea anchor already rigged and clipped to the bow eye. Show everyone on the boat how to deploy it, not to just throw it out but to help it get a bite in the water. The moment you foul a prop in heavy seas get that thing out to keep your bow into the waves.
> 
> Fishing buddy did not have one, got a wire diver into the prop in a marginal boat for the crew and conditions, before they knew it four guys were swimming and $40k in boat and gear were 80' under them on the bottom of Lake Michigan. They didn't have life jackets on either. Got lucky.


How does a wire line quit prop from working, can you just cut it and let it wrap around the prop and take care of it when you get back? Also, all boats are supposed to stay afloat full of water and do not sink. You never ever swim to shore, stay with the boat. Sorry, I do not mean to criticize your posting but most people trying to swim to shore do not make. Just want to make sure some newbie does not get the wrong idea in his head.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Ok, I reread the story and they killed the motor when the wire wrapped in it. I know mono will kill kill a motor though, as a speed boat ran over one of my planer boards and I flipped the reel out if gear, before he spooled it he went dead in the water. It was 15# test and he wound about 1000' in his prop. Not sure how it didn't just cut the line like it did on the other three boards he hit (yes, he went at speed so close behind me he got all four boards) but it was sweet revenge watching him knife away at the mess with his head dunking in the chop.

The boat sunk in under a minute. 

Google "Dave Mull Boat Sinking" it's worth the read and why they decided to swim. No boat and no one in the area and no one missing them, yep, I would have swam too.


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## fsamie1 (Mar 8, 2008)

Vow, I read the whole thing, what a scary story. Glad they all made it. He also mentions that kind of boat is used by rescue workers. funny that type of boat does not float and does not meet CG specs. Hopefully, other boats float and people can stay with the boat. Seems like many things went wrong that day and they had all copper and wire lines wrap around the prop. In my opinion, 18 footer with 4 guys in Lake Michigan in 3 footers is a no no.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

I had the honor of taking him out for his first trip on the big lake after that trip. In my 14' none the less. We got four kings and he got a j-plug hook buried in his finger. Welcome back to the lake!


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## Tavor (Sep 10, 2011)

I thought boats in that size range were supposed to have "level floatation" before they could be sold commercially. Why did this one sink? Did the manufacturer disregard the rule or was the boat modified significantly? That's a pretty major failure.


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## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

I know my 22' glass boat has tubes running under the gas tank from the bilge to the cabin, so it floods evenly, and she's a 1987.


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