# Real estate advice needed.... Buying and selling opinions..



## MIoutdoorsjunkie (Oct 11, 2006)

Looking for some advice and opinions. I am looking at possibly listing my house for sale and looking at new construction. Based on my research, it appears that I can get a larger house (new construction) for almost what I am paying for a monthly mortgage now. I have a dilemma... and need first hand opinions/advice from those that have recently sold and bought a new house.

I am unsure which of the following options I should explore and to be honest, don't even know where to start. Like I said, First hand experience/opinions from those that have made one of the following choices would be greatly appreciated. 

My wife and I have decided that we definitely want to move, and want to focus on the Oxford, Lake Orion, Addison twp area. We currently live just north of Romeo, MI. I have only owned one house in my life and we are living in it. We are ready for a change and previously owned houses (with potential maintenance issues) seem to be expensive and not something I am interested in at this point. Looking at new...

How am I going to get more bang for my buck? 

1) Purchase a country lot (2-5 acres) and contract a builder to build a house of my to my specs, floor plan, etc. This seems simple but I am sure there are hidden costs (Septic, well, land clearing etc) but, being unfamiliar with this process if I look for a home builder and a piece of land, what can I expect? What are the differences between going this route and choosing a new house in a subdivision? In terms of cost, how does a lot that I purchase compare in price to what lots in a pre-determined subdivision cost. It seems that a few acres can be as little as $20,000 or as much as $80,000. I have no clue what a cookie cutter lot in a sub might cost. I am sure there are many factors involved so this may be a very vague question. Not sure even where to begin my research.

2) Sit down with builder in a newly subdivision and see what is offered. I really prefer option #1 above, but not sure if it is cost effective or not. I know subdivisions come with associations that dictate what you can an cannot do with your property (Outbuildings, fences etc) 

Lastly, In terms of selling my current house, I would assume I would need to contact a realtor, get an appraisal, and prepare the house to be listed on the market. I am not sure what steps to take first. I am sure many have been through this, but it seems like a very extensive juggling act. Do I sell my current house first? Do I find a potential lot (subdivision) or piece of land and then list my house. Being VERY green to the workings of real estate, I am not sure where to begin. So, any advice or opinions regarding the above would be appreciated. 

Thanks! 
Jeff


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

I have bought and sold 4 homes in the past 20 years.. Never built one however.

1st rule: Stay the hell away from a subdivision.. Trust me when I say you don't want to be anywhere near anything that even remotely resembles a homeowners association. 

2. If you have a builder build a home for you, you MUST be there on almost a daily basis to inspect EVERY single thing they do and you MUST know what they're doing and why their doing it.. Builders are in business to make money.. the more corners they can get away with cutting, the more money they make.

3. Want peace? Do what I did and find a home with the fewest neighbors possible. Even if it means driving an extra 10 miles out.. Its worth it.

4. Small homes are ok.. small properties are not.. You can always add on to a home, you can never add onto your property.. (well, not quite never but you get the idea).. Two acres is a postage stamp... Get 10 or 20 or 30 and build a smaller home.. 

5. To my knowledge, and I might be wrong on this particular point, but banks do not loan money for land purchases. I'm sure there is some way they are doing it these days but when I looked into it a long time ago, I had to come up with the cash for the property first.

6. Remember, when you build a home and you cut a check for work to a contractor, your money is gone.. the work better be done by that point and done right because your money isn't coming back.

7. Brick Brick Brick Brick.. And a basement.. No exceptions no regrets.

8. Make sure you know what the water table is on the land you want to build on.. Don't go by whether they approve the perk test or not.. high water tables become an unbelievable pain in the rear during spring and summer and can cause flooding in a basement. 
Stay away from clay soils.. lots of problems there.. but this isn't a hard-fast rule.. sandy soils are just better but you can live with either.

9. Did I mention to find a place without neighbors??? Its worth mentioning again.

Lastly,
Contact a realtor first.. Have them come out to your home and give you some numbers.. Ask them to show you "the comps".. they will pull the records for homes that have recently sold in your area that are similar to your home.. From there, they have specific formulas they use to adjust each home's sale price based on its different characteristics as compared to yours. From that, they can tell you what your home will sell for. 

Do not invest your money into anything until you have the money to invest.. In other words, sell your home first, then "activate" your pre-planned course of action.


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## Greenbush future (Sep 8, 2005)

Some very good advice from Murph. but there's more, much , much more. 

When building w/o a builder, meaning you act as the Project Manager for all the trades, schedules, and QA, I will offer that most of us are not qualified to do this, nor would you want to if you have a day job. Murph's right about keeping a daily eye on your project, it is a must. 
So if you elect to use a builder, you still need to manage him/her, because they are now bias to some degree, with saving cash by cutting corners. Most do care about their reputation, so all is not lost. But they still don't always have your investment's best interest if they can sneak something by you. And let's face it, most of use wouldn't know 100% of what's good, OK, or just satisfactory. 

Murphs right about vacant land, most banks wont touch it for financing, so you should have your build site ready, and paid off, or get a sign off on the land contract you have. But owning will go far when you approach the bank for a loan to build. 
Building a list of things that need to be done, then prioritizing them according to your schedule is really important. Good example would be, selecting the land and ensuring it's build-able to your specs, does it perk?and the city, state, feds, before you even make an offer, let alone have it paid off. 
Getting sewers, cable, gas all to your site location will be important cost items. You would be shocked at what the cost per foot is for a water and sewer line, gas line, cable? It can be thousands each. 

I see the reasons why building new is desirable, but for my $$ I would rather buy existing, and then modify. Much easier, IMO. Far less hassle to just buy a home, and then sell your old one. 
And I just refinanced a mortgage that was less than a new truck, but the bigger mortgage companies are nothing short of lunatics, because of what hoops they must now force us all to jump through (see housing collapse). Most of the big box mortgage companies demanded $3-5000.00 in fee's that were just a joke, and pure profit to them and the sales rep. There are discount mortgage companies that will write you a new mortgage for under $1000.00 in fee's, in my case $600.00 was the real cost, plus all required stuff. 

Yea it's a project alright, but you can do it!!


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## MIoutdoorsjunkie (Oct 11, 2006)

Thanks Murph and Greenbush... Very sound advice from both of you. 

Murph, I am on the same page with you. I don't like neighbors and would rather have a nice piece of land to build my house on. 30 acres in the area I am looking at is well outside of my price range. We are talking over 150,000 just for the property. I wish, just not do-able at this time.. What you say about contracted home builders makes sense. I obviously do not know enough about home building to manage contractors and make sure things are done correctly without cutting corners. That scares me a bit. I too hate subdivisions... But, given the above, I am not sure if I could get a fair deal when building a house with a contractor on my own property. Back to square one!! lol. 

Greenbush... Thanks for the reply. I am interested in why you feel previously owned is the way to go? My opinion is that homes built new must meet different (tighter) Specs and energy ratings than houses 50, 30, or 20 years old. In other words, I would think the building code is more strict today than it was 30 years ago. Just a guess but i would assume better materials are used today (Plumbing, electrical etc). My current house was built in 1969. It is a 3 bedroom brick ranch. It is built well, but over the last few years I have put in new windows, new well, new roof, interior upgrades, new water softener, new furnace, new AC unit and the list goes on.. I spent a lot of money and really don't want to go through all that again. At least not for 10 years or so... Hence the consideration for a new house. The money that I have invested in my house was not an investment at all, rather a loss. I am lucky if I can sell my current house for what I paid for it let alone all the $$$$ I have invested in updates. 

My brother just bought a nice sized colonial in a small subdivision 3 years ago. it is 2600 sqft, three car garage, and came with all the appliances. My house is 45 years old, 1450 sq ft and still needs some work. His mortgage payment is only a bit more expensive than mine and he only put something like 3.5% down and got hit with PMI. To me, the decision to buy/build new is obvious. I am curious as to why you feel previously owned is the way to go? Not trying to nit pick you, but just looking for your reasoning.. 

Thanks again.. If anyone else want to chime in, feel free... I am looking for as many opinions as possible. I hate making bad financial decisions (Doesn't everyone) and feel that the house I am in now was a bad decision. Yeah, I did buy it in 2007 so I bought high and then the bottom fell out.. I originally just wanted to update the house and flip it for a profit.. That obviously didnt work. 

Thanks again.. 
Jeff


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

I can't make much comment on how building codes of today compare to those decades ago.. but here is some stuff I can add...

When you go into my basement and look up, you see real plywood.. not OSB garbage.. real 3/4 inch thick plywood.. 

When you go into my attic and look up, again, no OSB.. real plywood.. 

The craftsmanship and quality of materials that went into homes built in the 60's , 70's and early 80's is far greater than the cookie cutter make-a-profit garbage they are building today.. 

Stay away from "engineered" anything.. Can't believe I'm saying that because I am an engineer! :lol: 
Wood trusses made of laminated OSB are garbage.. Engineered basements of concrete poured foam blocks are garbage.. And for crying out loud, if you hear the word "engineered septic field".. run like Forrest Gump.. 
Ask if the home has ever been flooded for any reason.. get it in writing.. 

You can still build a quality home, but you have to know what you're doing and if you can't get past that, you'll get screwed for sure. 

I would suggest purchasing a home that was built 30 years ago.. Find someone you know who knows homes and have them inspect it with a fine tooth comb.. 

Find an imperfect home with a solid structure.. You can always contract out to have insulation blown in.. Replace the west side (up wind) windows, new carpet, etc.. Ignore stupid stuff like appliances and floor coverings.. except tile.. which is permanent. 

Look around the basement.. Finished basements are VERY BAD because they hide water marks. Fresh paint in a basement is almost a dead giveaway its flooded before. Look for engineered drain tiles next to the walls.. Run away if you see them.. 

Visit the house when its under a heavy rain, or better, during the spring thaw when its raining and see how often the sump pump runs.. If you see water pouring in and the pump has to run every 5 minutes, just move on to the next house.

Also, make sure any house you buy has a fireplace or at least a wood stove.. If you've ever had one, you'll never want to be without it again.

You're welcome to PM me for a phone number if I can be of any more help..


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## goats (Mar 13, 2012)

There are numerous financing options for land and build packages but not through traditional lending avenues and not at rates as low as conforming mortgages. Hard money lenders are always looking for someone that needs a bridge loan, construction loan or any other type of loan that is not secondary market eligible. Shoot, depending on your credit score, LTV and the collateral I could snag in case of a default I might be willing to put together some type of bridge loan or land contract deal. I buy the land you pay me a monthly payment with a nice (for me) INT% and a down payment so that you have skin in the game and then once your home is complete you buy out the remainder of the principle on the land by financing the new home through traditional avenues. This is all stated quite simply but there would be a load of other factors. 


I am involved in real estate on a daily basis and suggest finding an existing home with land that has been well maintained that also fits your needs. Pay a home inspector OF YOUR CHOOSING to inspect the home. You have already has your ass handed to you once playing real estate speculator. 


Buying land and constructing a new home is something that cash rich folks do that do not have to rely on financing and is something that most home seekers should consider near the end of their respective home ownership journey. Ask anyone that has a built a custom home on land purchased and they will more than likely tell you that it cost much more to build than what they could sell it for once completed. 

I built custom log and timber frame homes in Colorado for 5 years and after that experience combined with another few years of regular carpentry work I could act as my own general for the construction of my own home, but in order to keep all the contractors happy and on task it would be my new full time job.


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## giver108 (Nov 24, 2004)

Lots of good info here. 

You can indeed buy vacant land witH a bank but you got to find the right bank. I just bought the neighbor's 40 this fall and had to get a loan. They will want 20% down and interest rates are higher. Talk to local banks in the area who loan for raw land or a loan outfit that loan to farmers. 

Can't stress enough to do some due diligence before buying land to build on. Make sure the ground perks is very important else you won't get a septic system in. THe area I live is all heavy clay and nothing perks. Doesn't mean you can't build but I have to have a holding tank and get it pumped when full. I am constantly battling grey water and watching water use. 

If you buy an existing house, Murphy's advice about basements is spot on. I know, I bought a house with a finished basement and after last spring thaw, let's just say it is no longer finished and to properly waterproof it cost me $11K this fall. It was a nightmare and learned a hard lesson that a seller's disclosure is about useless. 

All that being said, it is still pretty cool to live on 120 acres and hunt in my backyard but you have to be able to put up with a lot of inconveniences.


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## MIoutdoorsjunkie (Oct 11, 2006)

Thanks guys.. Looks like I have some research to do. Murph I know what you are saying about the engineered stuff. I know homes built 30 years ago are probably better quality than the cookie cutter stuff built today. Also good points made about being able to expand a house but not usually the property the house is built on. 

I would love to buy a decent sized piece of land and build a house but I am scared now. Much of what has been said here makes perfect sense to me. The land/house idea unfortunately may have to wait until retirement and that is a good 25 years away. Goats makes good points as well... hmmm. 

Giver108.. good info. I assume a outfit like greenstone Financial (who lends to farmers) would probably be the go to firm for a land loan. Again, Not sure if I can afford that route our have the knowledge or patience to babysit a builder that is building a house for me. 

Like Goats said, I have already gambled with real estate and pretty much lost my A** on my current house. I don't want to get into something like that again. I don't want another "fixer upper". The problem is that the new construction communities make everything look so affordable compared to what I am paying now and even 20 year old houses that are currently on the market. 

New house, new everything, new start... but I am sure I am just buying myself time. Much like any house, in 10 years, the new house will start falling apart. Like I said, my house is 45 years old. I would like to see some of the new construction houses that are being built now in 45 years. I am sure they will have similar problems if not worse. 

So... No sure what to do. Wife and I both have decided we want a change, but not sure which route to pursue. Life changing decisions to make in the next few months. Cant afford a bad one!! lol. 

Thanks again. 
Jeff


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

How did you lose your a** in real estate already? What's wrong with your current home??

What do you mean by a "fixer upper".. ??

Gotta say, I've seen brand new homes that have more problems within 5 years than some homes do after 30.. In fact, its becoming the norm in some ways.

Your biggest problem is that you want to land yourself in Oakland county.. (get it? land yourself? I'm cracking myself up here :lol Oxford and Lake Orion are ridiculously expensive.. And for that, you get long trips to any freeway, high taxes, nosy people, etc ... Not for me.. Screw that! Go just a bit further in Lapeer and watch the prices drop for an extra 5 or 10 miles.


Oh ya.. one other important thing that applies to anything you buy.. 
Spend $50 and do a toxin panel! Check surface water AND the well water.. They sell kits.. 
You want to run the full gambit. Arsenic, mercury, lead are the most popular well water problems.. 
Look at the tree's in the area, if its all mature wooded area, don't worry about the ground water.. But if you see wooded lots or open fields with young trees that are 30 or 40 feet tall, it might have been farmed in the past. Check nitrates, pesticides, etc etc... 

Your area is hilly.. don't by anything at the bottom of any hill.. Make sure your home is graded above the road. 

Hope that helps,


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## MIoutdoorsjunkie (Oct 11, 2006)

Murphy said:


> How did you lose your a** in real estate already? What's wrong with your current home??
> 
> What do you mean by a "fixer upper".. ??
> 
> ...


Thanks Murphy... Your opinion is really appreciated and it bringing me back down to earth...
There is nothing wrong with my current house, the problem is that I bought at the wrong time (just before the housing market hit rock bottom). When I bought, I bought a house that needed to be completely updated. In other words, although well maintained by an older lady, the house was in desperate need of an update and then some. As I said, I completely re-did all the hardwood floors, baseboard and 1/4 round, doors, closet doors, slate foyer, replaced the windows, well, roof, siding. New patio, new AC, new hot water heater, new furnace. The only things that have not been done are the driveway (deteriorating black top) and the septic (which I assume is going to "go" within the next year or two. Also the front picture window and back bow window are rotting away and in need of replacement. I have invested way too much money in this house for what it is and what it is currently worth. I cant keep throwing money into this place. I need a change but do not want to get into something that needs the attention that this house needed. Hence the "fixer upper" comment... 

The bottom line, my wife and I want to start having kids and we don't want to mess around with updating a house again. That is specifically why I was looking to buy new. We are both in our 30's and are a bit late to the "starting a family" game. If I am going to expand and get out of here, I probably need to do it soon or I have a feeling I am going to be stuck in the house for a long time. Just kicking ideas around at this point and trying to get opinions. 

Good idea about the water test. I should have mine tested. This area is full of AG fields and according to my older neighbor, a lot of folks in the area have cancer. He feels it is from drinking the well water. I have no reason to disagree with him. I have a 5 gallon culligan water cooler. My dog drinks the well water and has developed fatty tumors.. who knows. 

I appreciate it... Jeff


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

MIoutdoorsjunkie said:


> The bottom line, my wife and I want to start having kids and we don't want to mess around with updating a house again. That is specifically why I was looking to buy new. We are both in our 30's and are a bit late to the "starting a family" game.


Wow.. I feel like an old man.. 
My wife and I have been married for 12 years and just decided to have a kid two years ago.. (We have a 1 year old). 

I'm in my mid 40's, she's in her mid 30's......


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## sweatyspartan (May 24, 2004)

Murphy said:


> I can't make much comment on how building codes of today compare to those decades ago.. but here is some stuff I can add...
> 
> When you go into my basement and look up, you see real plywood.. not OSB garbage.. real 3/4 inch thick plywood..
> 
> ...


If I was building a home, there's no way I'd use anything other than an engineered floor joist. Wider nailing flange, less flex, less waste, lower cost, less floor squeaks, minimizes twisting/camber, etc. dimensional lumber for floor joists is outdated technology....like buying a VCR.

Not every home built today is junk. Homes today are a fraction of the energy costs of homes built even 5-7 years ago. Plumbing material is better, energy usage is better, floorplans are better, features are better, appreciate at a faster rate than older homes, etc.

There is a good amount of junk that gets churned out today, but you're getting some truth mixed with some opinions with some complete falsehoods. 

If you're interested in making a move, find a top producing realtor in your area and interview a couple of them. This is not the time to use the friend from church or the distant relative. If the realtor shows up without a list of comparable sales in your area, politely ask them to leave. Find the area that you want to live and focus your search on that area. Create a list of must haves and ask to have a list of homes pulled together based on that criteria.

If you decide to build on your own, you will make mistakes and could potentially cost yourself a ton of money....would you perform your own surgery or build your own car? Find a builder with a stellar reputation and talk about your goals. If it's something they can provide for you that is within your budget and in writing, do consider it. I've seen dozens of people try to build their own house and cost themselves significant dollars, completely blow their schedule, strain their family life and essentially get themselves a second full time job for a year.

If you have any questions feel free to send me a pm. I don't work in that area anymore but would be more than happy to answer any questions.


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## MIoutdoorsjunkie (Oct 11, 2006)

Sorry Murph.. Didn't want to make you feel like an old man. I am 37 and she is 35. My point was were are not like most couples that got married in their mid 20's and had kids at 30. Hope that makes you feel better! lol. 

Sweatyspartan.. Good points. Maybe you misunderstood. I would never try to "build my own house" but was rather considering buying a piece of land and hiring a builder/general contractor to build a home for me. Again, not sure if that is a cost effective route or something that I want to deal with. 

You make some good points about the engineered stuff. It makes sense. Also, as I originally thought, the plumbing used today I think it is called "PEX" or something like that is better than the old copper stuff. Same with energy efficiency. Sorry Murph, but I figured that New houses must be more efficient than homes built 30 year ago and tend to side with Spartan on this one. 

Spartan your comments about a realtor make sense. I will follow your advice. 

Again.. This is exactly what I wanted. Opinions from people who have had experienced moving/buying/selling. As I said, I have been in the same house for the last 7 years and before that it was an apartment. I am green as ever when it comes to real estate and the new vs. previously owned debate. 

Thanks
Jeff


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## slowpoke (Jan 30, 2001)

I made the mistake of buying before selling my home. First was the insurance doubling on the home I was selling because no one was living in the house. Next, taxes double on my old house because now my new home is getting the Homestead Property Tax Credit. Also my home didn't sale for over 2 years so I had to mow grass, keep drive way cleared of snow, pick up leaves in the fall, clean gutters, keep the heat on,you get the idea. I ended up selling the old home on a land contract with small down payment. Now I so happy each time I receive my payment instead of those people walking away. You see they paid more for the home then it's worth now and better houses are for sale in the area for less then they owe me and could easily walk away and leave me like I was.

Another thing. Look for the home of your dreams that is already built in the area that you want to move to. As you know, the housing market took a big hit. There are some great houses on the market that are great buys, like 1/2 of what they were worth 10 years ago. Good luck.


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## wild bill (Apr 20, 2001)

i have bought vacant land in the past using greenstone and have nothing but good things to say about them. they also offer construction loans if you do decide to build.

i have to agree with some and disagree with others. todays materials are far better than whats in older homes. im not talking about stuff you get from the box stores. supply places will be more expensive and for good reason. not all contractors cut corners like others have said. you need to ask around and get refferals. ask for names and addresses of homes they built and visit them. talk to the people living in them. look at the quality of work that was done. a couple of the custom home builders i know take great pride in their work. they are more expensive per sqft but your get quality work. they will invite you to visit anyone of their jobsites while they are working. if a builder acts funny about that then walk away. same goes for the plumber and electrician. drywall is another. a bad drywall job will have you hating your house for years. sorry if i offend some guys here but i will never have anyone use a banjo to tape and mud my walls. if i gotta tape it mud it myself for it to be done by hand then so be it. if you do decide to build your home then i would start another thread about what you would do or wouldnt do again when building a home. building a home doesnt have to be a nightmare. you have allready taken the first step by asking. do your homework and ask a lot of questions. my advice would be to look for that piece of land right now. buy it if you can and start planning for your home. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

Looks like you are getting some good opinions here in this thread. I'll add a couple of more things.

First, DECIDE WHERE YOU WANT TO BE!

This is the step that will dictate what your next moves are. Once you know geographically where you want to live, the first thing I would do is see what's available already. There are some really nice places that can be bought for MUCH LESS than a new build is going to cost you. All the previous posts about drainage and inspections were good advice to use at this point. If you find a decent home in the right spot for a reasonable amount, you have already conquered two-thirds of the battle. You may find a home that is "almost right" that needs a little work, or maybe an addition to suit your needs. It is easier, and often cheaper, to modify an existing home than to start from scratch. Before you buy a place like this though, GET WITH A REPUTABLE BUILDER in the area and have him look at it and give you options and quotes. Sometimes you can work with the bank to get the money you need to do this work up front depending on the asking price of the house vs. the appraised value. It is an idea worth looking into.

Second option would be a new build. Yes, you will have issues borrowing for just a lot. Once again, get with a good area builder FIRST. Sit down with him a tell him what you are looking for in a house, the property, and most important of all YOUR BUDGET. Often times a builder will already know of a suitable property in your area, and within your budget, that is available, or COULD BE available. As a builder myself, I've actually purchased the land for the home, often times being a property that is not listed but I knew the landowner MIGHT be willing to part with it, and then built the house for the client. This makes it much easier for the client to get the financing on a "total package" rather than trying to come up with the money up front for the land. You won't know if this is an option until you start looking for a builder. 

As far as choosing a good builder. If you are totally in the dark as far as who to choose, look first at a builder that has built some homes in the area that resemble the type of home you ultimately want. If you are looking for a custom home, you want a builder that specializes in that sort of construction. A builder that primarily builds "spec" homes, ie. a builder that finances the project on his own and then lists the completed home after it is done, often times is not going to have experience dealing with a client every step of the way. This can lead to utter frustration for both parties. A builder that is used to the entire process of designing and building a home for a particular client will be a much better way to go and there will be much less head butting throughout the project. Trust me on this one!

I AM definitely biased here, but there are GOOD, TRUSTWORTHY builders that you do not need to babysit. With custom homes especially, reputation is HUGE for a builder. They just can't afford to put out substandard work in today's tighter housing market. A GOOD Contractor will build to code and not try to cut corners, but of course you will be charged accordingly for that. You get what you pay for definitely applies here. Sure, you can ALWAYS find a guy that will do it for MUCH less money, but there is usually a reason for that. I've seen some horrific work over the years that ends up costing more in the long run because you will need to bring in a good contractor eventually to fix it. GET REFERENCES!

Now a good builder will answer your questions when you have them as far as any part of the building process. Even basic questions like "Why are the walls on 16" centers, but the trusses are on 24" centers? Is that really strong enough?", should be answered in a way you understand and without any attitude. You get attitude from a builder like "Quit trying to tell me how to do my job!", in the planning stages MOVE ON to a new guy! If you don't feel comfortable with any answers you have gotten, MOVE ON! Once again, a builder that has a good rep and is used to dealing with customs will understand this and it will be much more enjoyable all the way around.

I've got a bunch more I could put down, but time is a little tight. Last thing though, we haven't used "plywood" on a house since 1980! The only place I have used plywood is my Dad's place in the UP which we built right after hurricane Andrew drove the price of OSB up so high that it was actually cheaper to use plywood. Looking up between the floor joists and seeing 3/4" T & G OSB does not bother me in the least, nor should it you when inspecting a home!


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## tmanmi (Sep 20, 2005)

I'm a firm believer in modular homes. That's *modular* not *manufactured*.

Heckaman and All American are probably 2 of the better.

http://www.heckamanhomes.com

http://www.allamericanhomes.com/

Options are almost unlimited maybe a few structurally because of the nature of a modular home. Don't like flooring, bathroom, kitchen, siding or trim options offered, order without and use your own source and installer.

With a foundation ready these homes can be setup in a day. Setup is installed on your foundation and weather tight not finished. Realistically plan on 3 to 6 months for finish work and to move in.


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## Greenbush future (Sep 8, 2005)

MIoutdoorsjunkie said:


> Thanks Murph and Greenbush... Very sound advice from both of you.
> 
> Murph, I am on the same page with you. I don't like neighbors and would rather have a nice piece of land to build my house on. 30 acres in the area I am looking at is well outside of my price range. We are talking over 150,000 just for the property. I wish, just not do-able at this time.. What you say about contracted home builders makes sense. I obviously do not know enough about home building to manage contractors and make sure things are done correctly without cutting corners. That scares me a bit. I too hate subdivisions... But, given the above, I am not sure if I could get a fair deal when building a house with a contractor on my own property. Back to square one!! lol.
> 
> ...


Jeff,

You are asking a great question, and I don't think there's a black and white answer to what is best, each of us is different. Buying new is no guarantee that you wont have issue's but it sure does help. And my second thought is, you will be paying top dollar for any new construction too. If you decide to build yourself, then you have some of the challenges already discussed. The up side is everything you have mentioned already. I tend to shop for deals and imagine what I can do to make a buck, long term. Buying a house was one way I diversified my retirement fund. 

As far as selling at a loss right now because you are upside down. Don't forget you are like many of us, the real estate market is only slowly recovering. Buying a house has risk, and I actually took advantage of the down market and snapped up some nice, deals. But the flip side is that is you owe more than it's worth, you need to be prepared to take a loss if you sell, or find another play to wait for the house to appreciate . Every situation is a little different.


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