# St joe



## Benny23 (Nov 21, 2009)

Has anyone had any luck for salmon with there really isnt many these days. Most importantly the steelies should b showing up soon
Ned some cooler weather and a little rain to get them up


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

Salmon are done, lots of empty redds. Few white tails still kicking around. As for the Steelhead we are off to a slow start. High water isnt helping, little fish with a ton of water to be in.


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## Steve61 (Aug 30, 2016)

Whole lotta nothing. Was at the dam Saturday - nobody getting anything on anything. Was in the river the Monday before - same story.

I'm hoping for redemption soon. Spent way too many hours for too few fish so far.


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

Steve61 said:


> Whole lotta nothing. Was at the dam Saturday - nobody getting anything on anything. Was in the river the Monday before - same story.
> 
> I'm hoping for redemption soon. Spent way too many hours for too few fish so far.


Saturday we found a few players, skams and winter fish. But after the inch plus of rain Sunday AM it appears most the fish pushed above the dam, and the next batch just has not pushed up yet with the unseasonably warm weather. But from looking at how good the Grand has been past few weeks at Sixth Street. I would expect to see another small push soon.


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## Steve61 (Aug 30, 2016)

Multispeciestamer said:


> Saturday we found a few players, skams and winter fish. But after the inch plus of rain Sunday AM it appears most the fish pushed above the dam, and the next batch just has not pushed up yet with the unseasonably warm weather. But from looking at how good the Grand has been past few weeks at Sixth Street. I would expect to see another small push soon.


Were you fishing the dam or were you in a boat?


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Steelhead used to follow the hundreds of salmon into the rivers to feed on the eggs. I used to catch nice steelhead in rivers in August after the first push of salmon. Now that there is less salmon and the salmon runs are scattered those steelhead just are not showing up yet. Expect some good numbers to show up in November and December when it gets colder.


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## Benny23 (Nov 21, 2009)

Thanks guys for all the info 
I've had many good years around Thansgiving when it's nice and cold 
Salmon are few and far between these days all around the lake


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

Steve61 said:


> Were you fishing the dam or were you in a boat?


I was in a boat Saturday. I fished from shore Thursday and Monday.


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

Robert Holmes said:


> Steelhead used to follow the hundreds of salmon into the rivers to feed on the eggs. I used to catch nice steelhead in rivers in August after the first push of salmon. Now that there is less salmon and the salmon runs are scattered those steelhead just are not showing up yet. Expect some good numbers to show up in November and December when it gets colder.


The Steelhead that enter the river are not entering to eat eggs. They simply take advantage of the situation when present once they are already in the river. Steelhead enter early to get a jump start on the spawning run that will commence in late winter and spring. Its a biological process that not all fish run at the same time to ensure fish can reach different spawning grounds farther up river, vs a fish that runs in the Spring already fully mature and ready to spawn and choose the first adequate spawning site it encounters. The Steelhead run is completely independent of the salmon, and has nothing to do with food. You seen higher numbers of steelhead in past falls simply because the water conditions allowed for them to enter and start their spawning run. Once in the river, salmon eggs provide a lovely added bonus and surely help us anglers locate steelhead. With the lack of salmon and salmon eggs the steelhead still enter, they just exhibit different behavior. With out a food source to keep them occupied they simply push farther up river in a faster time span instead of holding up.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

You are close Multispecies. When salmon were plentiful probably before you were born 1070's 1980's and 1990's the steelhead would follow them. It was not uncommon to catch steelhead in the rivers in mid August when the first waves of salmon were coming in. The skams were just being introduced back them so these were winter run fish. By the time mid September and October rolled around catching a limit of steelhead was a short fishing trip usually less than an hour. Now that the salmon are at a minimum the steelhead are not showing until the water hits about 45 degrees. It has been that was the last three years and I will bet that next year may be the same way.


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## jigsnwigs (Feb 6, 2011)

Robert Holmes said:


> You are close Multispecies. When salmon were plentiful probably before you were born 1070's 1980's and 1990's the steelhead would follow them. It was not uncommon to catch steelhead in the rivers in mid August when the first waves of salmon were coming in. The skams were just being introduced back them so these were winter run fish. By the time mid September and October rolled around catching a limit of steelhead was a short fishing trip usually less than an hour. Now that the salmon are at a minimum the steelhead are not showing until the water hits about 45 degrees. It has been that was the last three years and I will bet that next year may be the same way.


I disagree. Steelhead don't "follow" nor do they "know" when Salmon make there run. Neither fish(as we all know) are native to the great lakes. Steelhead have been stocked around here for about 150 years. While Salmon have been stocked for about 50. There is no way that Steelhead learned to follow Salmon up the river over the past 50 years to get an easy meal. Perhaps if these fish were native to the area and been here fore tens of thousands of years. Then what you say might be true.

I have fished Steelies since the late 70's there are years with good runs and bad runs. Look at the data from the Manistee weir. http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10364_52259_19092-51534--,00.html

Fish are cold blooded, simple minded creatures, that have nothing in mind but to take advantage of whatever food opportunity they can stumble on. And above all, to reproduce. Still we beat ourselves up everyday trying to catch them


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

Robert Holmes said:


> You are close Multispecies. When salmon were plentiful probably before you were born 1070's 1980's and 1990's the steelhead would follow them. It was not uncommon to catch steelhead in the rivers in mid August when the first waves of salmon were coming in. The skams were just being introduced back them so these were winter run fish. By the time mid September and October rolled around catching a limit of steelhead was a short fishing trip usually less than an hour. Now that the salmon are at a minimum the steelhead are not showing until the water hits about 45 degrees. It has been that was the last three years and I will bet that next year may be the same way.


 Thats due to climate change, not lack of salmon. Fall steelhead begin to enter the river when conditions tell them so. Rain, temperature, photo period, and moon phase. I remember growing up much colder falls, the last few falls have been relatively mild. We starting catching Little Man. strain this steelhead as temps dropped into the low 60s THIS FALL ALREADY.


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## Steve61 (Aug 30, 2016)

So.... back to the practicals.... should I fish this weekend? Give me some ideas. Is it better to try around the piers since the lake temp is lower than the river temp right now?


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## blackghost (Oct 2, 2010)

I would reckon the steelhead are pretty good at sniffing out tens of thousands of spawning salmon. That amount of eggs and milt in the water must emit a pretty heavy scent. I'm guessing with the poor numbers of fish lately that we're not getting the strong scent they used to follow, but fall steelhead are fall steelhead and will run in the fall.


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## blackghost (Oct 2, 2010)

There should be some fishing from the piers soon. Just wait for the water temps to drop a few more degrees. We should be there by the weekend.


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## Robert Holmes (Oct 13, 2008)

Multispeciestamer said:


> Thats due to climate change, not lack of salmon. Fall steelhead begin to enter the river when conditions tell them so. Rain, temperature, photo period, and moon phase. I remember growing up much colder falls, the last few falls have been relatively mild. We starting catching Little Man. strain this steelhead as temps dropped into the low 60s THIS FALL ALREADY.


In the very large rivers throughout the state you can catch steelhead all year long. I used to catch them in the AuSable and Rifle rivers throughout the year prior to the skams being planted. You just don't get the big ones in the summer but 18 to 24 inches was not uncommon for me to catch.


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## Erik (Jan 17, 2000)

Just returned from fishing a north west lake mi trib. About 4 miles upriver from the lake. Some of the first good gravel the fish come to when they run the river. The section has a few redds and some, not a lot, but some still actively spawning kings.
The last week or so there has been a run of dime bright juvenile cohos straight in from the lake. These fish are not spawners. They are not running the river to get an early jump on spawning for next year. They are probably only 2yr olds ranging from 18" to 22". They're so silver they look just like steelhead.. Very aggressive I've seen them jump out of the water 3ft when you set the hook on one. I'm sure a lot of fishermen mistake them for steelies, but they are not. They are young cohos.
So question, if those cohos aren't running the river as pre spawners then what are they running the river for???
You all can think whatever you want, but it is my opinion come autumn when the water temps are right, steelhead, lake run browns, and juvenile cohos, run the river because they find food there.
Even Lake trout have been known to run the rivers in late fall. So there has to be another explanation than these fish only run to get an early jump on the spawn.


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## wilsonm (Dec 28, 2010)

Erik said:


> Just returned from fishing a north west lake mi trib. About 4 miles upriver from the lake. Some of the first good gravel the fish come to when they run the river. The section has a few redds and some, not a lot, but some still actively spawning kings.
> The last week or so there has been a run of dime bright juvenile cohos straight in from the lake. These fish are not spawners. They are not running the river to get an early jump on spawning for next year. They are probably only 2yr olds ranging from 18" to 22". They're so silver they look just like steelhead.. Very aggressive I've seen them jump out of the water 3ft when you set the hook on one. I'm sure a lot of fishermen mistake them for steelies, but they are not. They are young cohos.
> So question, if those cohos aren't running the river as pre spawners then what are they running the river for???
> You all can think whatever you want, but it is my opinion come autumn when the water temps are right, steelhead, lake run browns, and juvenile cohos, run the river because they find food there.
> Even Lake trout have been known to run the rivers in late fall. So there has to be another explanation than these fish only run to get an early jump on the spawn.


They are all coming in to spawn, some this fall such as the coho, lake trout and browns. The steelhead will come in until the river temps drop below 40 and will hold over until late winter/spring and join the spring spawners when the weather breaks. The coho jacks will die after spawning just as their year older counterparts. Coho are often quite silver even at Niles and Webber. They don't waste any time migrating up river and don't deteriorate as fast as kings. There will also be some smaller coho runs yet and even some trickling into the rivers through the new year. The brown trout will try to spawn, although some females will not and will reabsorb their eggs. Sometimes you can see this in fish caught in the spring which have buckshot eggs along with next years immature egg skein. Historically, there were lake trout that ran rivers in the fall and spawned. There are always a few that show up in all the big rivers this time of year. Most have fin clips indicating hatchery raised fish, but their is still some part of their past genetics that drives a few up the rivers in the fall to try spawning.


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

Guys that fished the rivers back in the days before the salmon were stocked into Lake Michigan used to tell me that the steelhead used to run earlier and in better numbers then.


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

Erik said:


> Just returned from fishing a north west lake mi trib. About 4 miles upriver from the lake. Some of the first good gravel the fish come to when they run the river. The section has a few redds and some, not a lot, but some still actively spawning kings.
> The last week or so there has been a run of dime bright juvenile cohos straight in from the lake. These fish are not spawners. They are not running the river to get an early jump on spawning for next year. They are probably only 2yr olds ranging from 18" to 22". They're so silver they look just like steelhead.. Very aggressive I've seen them jump out of the water 3ft when you set the hook on one. I'm sure a lot of fishermen mistake them for steelies, but they are not. They are young cohos.
> So question, if those cohos aren't running the river as pre spawners then what are they running the river for???
> You all can think whatever you want, but it is my opinion come autumn when the water temps are right, steelhead, lake run browns, and juvenile cohos, run the river because they find food there.
> Even Lake trout have been known to run the rivers in late fall. So there has to be another explanation than these fish only run to get an early jump on the spawn.


They are mature, and all males. They simply mature sooner. Happens every single year. Cleaned a good many of them.


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## Erik (Jan 17, 2000)

I've cleaned a few myself and they are not spawners and they are not all males. They are immature juveniles running the river because the river is full of food. They're the same fish we catch in the spring and fall near shore fishery when the water is cold. 
A big key factor here is just look inside their stomachs. They will be full of food. No milt in the males and no eggs forming in the hens. Not spawning fish. I mean whens the last time you caught a spawning fish and found the stomach full of food? Wont say it doesn't happen but its rare for a spawning salmon to have anything in its stomach.
Lake trout sometimes run the rivers in fall too. And they aren't spawning.
I highly doubt those lakers are just in the river for the heck of it. They are there for the food.


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## concentroutin (Jan 7, 2014)

And with respect to Erik from Grass Lake, I side with Wilsonm (MDNR) from Kalamazoo. I have caught plenty of lakers in GR and Petoskey - spawning fish. I have also caught lots of smaller (jack) chrome/silver coho in NE Michigan - same story. It's in all the fisheries books/journals, but we used to think the earth was flat too. Do a graduate research project and get something published to the contrary, most of us are open minded...


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## Steve61 (Aug 30, 2016)

The thread has become a little theoretical...

Anyone have any luck in St Joe this past weekend? I hit the pier trying for steelhead, but nothing was taking our spawn. Saw some guys on the north pier too and didn't see them get anything.

Did anyone get out on the river?


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

Lakers spawn in the lower Joe every fall, then after spawning they hang around and eat as forage species move up river from the lake. There is one know exception when juvenile coho have been known to enter rivers and that is mid winter and early spring. They enter rivers to escape the cold lake Michigan water and following baitfish. It is a well documented fact that Salmon species can mature early, it is all very very well documented that they are usually almost always male. Its been documented that they can mature as early as parr stage. 

Back to the original question been out on the river several times. Still catching steelhead, even got a fresh hen king fishing for walleye this week.


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## Steve61 (Aug 30, 2016)

You fishing below berrien or are you upstream? Also the steelhead you're catching, are they skams?


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## jpmarko (Feb 26, 2010)

I don't think the main run has happened yet. Water at the pier heads has been warm. Still mid 50's. Probably a few shooting up river here and there. But not too many. If you want better numbers than you probably have to wait a few days or week or so. Temps have been uncharacteristically warm for this time of year. A little behind schedule.


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## quest32a (Sep 25, 2001)

Gotta give Erik some credit here. We used to catch spring cohos all the up to berrien springs dam into April. Not spawners, just there for the food. Trail creek will be full of fresh coho all spring as well. Not spawning either.


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

quest32a said:


> Gotta give Erik some credit here. We used to catch spring cohos all the up to berrien springs dam into April. Not spawners, just there for the food. Trail creek will be full of fresh coho all spring as well. Not spawning either.


I mentioned that as a notable exception. But still undocumented behavior in the fall.


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

Steve61 said:


> You fishing below berrien or are you upstream? Also the steelhead you're catching, are they skams?


I fish a ton of water in the area. Mostly getting little man. strain, but still some skams mixed in. As Jp just said not a ton of fish in, most boats are struggling, the main run has not started. Did finally run into some big adult little mans today though which was a welcome change of pace.


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## Benny23 (Nov 21, 2009)

Anyone know the river temp??


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

Benny23 said:


> Anyone know the river temp??


48 yesterday


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## Clum (May 11, 2015)

I'm in the camp that the steelhead follow the Kings in for food. Less Kings, less steelhead, until it gets time for them to make their own run.


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## southshore (Oct 27, 2008)

Here's a couple from Monday. Wasn't nonstop action, but we found a few that wanted to play. Upper 50's and sunny with steelhead smashing plugs and I had the day off, life is good. We were 4/4 on hook ups and had a couple other swipes on out tots that didn't connect. The size of the fish this fall seems pretty good from what I've seen so far.


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

Clum said:


> I'm in the camp that the steelhead follow the Kings in for food. Less Kings, less steelhead, until it gets time for them to make their own run.


If that was the case then no steelhead would show up until the spring, and none would enter in the fall at all.


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

southshore said:


> View attachment 233821
> View attachment 233820
> 
> 
> Here's a couple from Monday. Wasn't nonstop action, but we found a few that wanted to play. Upper 50's and sunny with steelhead smashing plugs and I had the day off, life is good. We were 4/4 on hook ups and had a couple other swipes on out tots that didn't connect. The size of the fish this fall seems pretty good from what I've seen so far.


They are for sure large this season. Been quite the handful fishing on solo trips. Have to chase almost every fish down.


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## Julez81 (Feb 6, 2009)

Science deniers lol


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## Julez81 (Feb 6, 2009)

Multispeciestamer said:


> They are for sure large this season. Been quite the handful fishing on solo trips. Have to chase almost every fish down.


Indeed large. The DNR's stocking reductions have given us the lesser of 2 evils, namely fewer fish of improved quality, a trade we Winter Steelheaders are enjoying. Just started my season with some much needed vaca this week and today I caught my personal largest Steelhead by 6 ounces. Ain't Michigan great!

PS he didn't come in quietly and I payed a tax of retying a lot of lines and leaders. Safely released


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## Steve61 (Aug 30, 2016)

What type of features do you look for when setting up to plug?


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## southshore (Oct 27, 2008)

Steve61 said:


> What type of features do you look for when setting up to plug?


Fish will hit plugs in all types of water from shallow spawning flats to frog water pools. You can adjust your bait and presantation to cover just about anywhere a steelhead will hold. On every river I've fished, the number one feature I look for is a bubble line, foam is home. I'm almost always moving when I'm plugging, covering all the good looking water. Last week we caught fish at the head of a pool, right in the deepest body of the pool, down in the tailout of the pool, and in a crossover run between pools. In general I will eliminate water that is moving too slow to give my plug good action while its still moving downstream, but I know guys that troll upstream and catch fish, and I've caught plenty of fish casting in slow pools. If I have to drift down stream faster than I walk to keep the plug from blowing out, i'll pass through that water too most days. If I were gonna try to boil it down to "ideal water" Id say look for a foam line with walking pace current in water thats deeper than the average river depth. Transitions from shallow to deep at the head of a pool and deep to shallow at the back of a pool are key areas. Throw in some wood and its better. Add a feeder creek, even better. Get some shade over that water and you're in a gold mine. I think every stretch of water has a "key" plug. When you're in the best areas of that stretch of water the key plug will have it's best action, not under or over working. On the Joe bellow Berrien, or the Big Man below Tippy for me, that's an old school 3/4oz Tot most days. On the Dowagiac, I like a standard or wee wiggle wart. Trail creek a K7 or K9 kwikfish.


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## Multispeciestamer (Jan 27, 2010)

southshore said:


> Fish will hit plugs in all types of water from shallow spawning flats to frog water pools. You can adjust your bait and presantation to cover just about anywhere a steelhead will hold. On every river I've fished, the number one feature I look for is a bubble line, foam is home. I'm almost always moving when I'm plugging, covering all the good looking water. Last week we caught fish at the head of a pool, right in the deepest body of the pool, down in the tailout of the pool, and in a crossover run between pools. In general I will eliminate water that is moving too slow to give my plug good action while its still moving downstream, but I know guys that troll upstream and catch fish, and I've caught plenty of fish casting in slow pools. If I have to drift down stream faster than I walk to keep the plug from blowing out, i'll pass through that water too most days. If I were gonna try to boil it down to "ideal water" Id say look for a foam line with walking pace current in water thats deeper than the average river depth. Transitions from shallow to deep at the head of a pool and deep to shallow at the back of a pool are key areas. Throw in some wood and its better. Add a feeder creek, even better. Get some shade over that water and you're in a gold mine. I think every stretch of water has a "key" plug. When you're in the best areas of that stretch of water the key plug will have it's best action, not under or over working. On the Joe bellow Berrien, or the Big Man below Tippy for me, that's an old school 3/4oz Tot most days. On the Dowagiac, I like a standard or wee wiggle wart. Trail creek a K7 or K9 kwikfish.


Last I checked tots do not come in 3/4 oz. The AH series being the largest made come in 3/8 oz which is the size I believe you are referring to? Or possibly you meant the regular sized H which are 3/16 oz which is what I use most to forward troll with.


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