# CCW Class



## Bobby (Dec 21, 2002)

I completed a CCW class two years ago. Never applied for my permit (Why do I hate that term when applied to fire arms). How long is this class certificate valid? There is no expiration date on the certificate or the letter that accompanied the certificate.

Thanks


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## 45/70fan (May 29, 2005)

There is no stale time frame for the initial course requirement all the law states is you must have completed the course.


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## kingfishcam (Jul 16, 2002)

Bobby,

It would not hurt to take a refresher 4 hour course just so the county dosn't have a lame reason for denying. There is a 4 hour basic pistol class this Saturday in Brighton. Go to www.livingstongunclub.org for the details.


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## Ruger1 (Sep 27, 2004)

When I lived in SE Michigan I completed a CCW course in anticipation of MI legislature and Engler passing "Shall Carry" legislation. It was of course initially siderailed by the Columbine killings. I moved to west MI and as soon as the legislation passed I applied for a CCW but was told that I would have to take another CCW course as to much time had elapsed. I live in a very gun friendly county and never for a moment felt that the county issuing board was purposely putting up roadblocks to my getting a CCW but they did insist that I take another course.

Ruger1


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## 45/70fan (May 29, 2005)

> I applied for a CCW but was told that I would have to take another CCW course as to much time had elapsed.


Did you question them on what was the appropriate time frame? Me thinks this was a discretionary application of a law that didn't and still doesn't exist. What is too much time, if you took a class last month and applied for a permit next month but it doesn't go before the board for another 2 months then 5 months will have lapsed is that too much time? Go back and ask the board what they have written and published for the public, I'll bet you right now they have absolutely nothing in writing nor can they give you a definative answer as to what constitutes "too much time elapsed".


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## kingfishcam (Jul 16, 2002)

From his post, Engler was in office, which means the class he took was before the shall issue law was inplace. Everyone needed to retake CPL class after the shall issue law.


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## kingfishcam (Jul 16, 2002)

Bobby,

Take the 4 hour refresher (Basic pistol) class this weekend. Bring your certificate(CCW) with you. The guy that trains all the instructors in the area will be there, and can probably straighten it out for you.


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## 45/70fan (May 29, 2005)

Kingfishcam: I would like for somebody to point out to me the specific law that sets a time frame on a ccw class for a new applicantion to carry. Here are the Michigan compiled laws on firearms to make it easy. The only time frame given as it applies to ccw licensure is 6 months prior to renewal an applicant must have 3 hrs of firearms law review and one hour of range time.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/firearms.pdf

Essentially the same requirement for excess time lapse could be made with a traffic violation in the following scenerio. Your driving down a rural paved highway doing 45 mph, you haven't seen a speed limit sign in the last 10 miles but the last one said 55 mph. All of a sudden the flashing red/blue lights come on behind you. You hand the officer all the necessary paperwork, everything is in order then the officer tells you that you were speeding. You say, no I wasn't I was doing 45 in a 55 mph area because the last sign was 10 miles back down the road, he counters that it doesn't matter, that was 10 miles back and too much time/distance has lapsed. So do you pay the fine because it was the easy thing to do and made him happy or do you fight it because it's the wrong interpretation
of the law??


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## Bobby (Dec 21, 2002)

kingfishcam said:


> Bobby,
> 
> Take the 4 hour refresher (Basic pistol) class this weekend. Bring your certificate(CCW) with you. The guy that trains all the instructors in the area will be there, and can probably straighten it out for you.


Thanks for the info.
If I have to retake I will, but I'm not going to do this to be 'safe'. There is no date of any kind on my certificate. So I'm going in and see what happens.

Thanks all. I'll put an update when we apply


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## Beaglernr (Dec 1, 2002)

Mabye this can help a bit with the time line and trainning. In 2000 they admended the may issue to Shall issue the old wording indicated your trainning had to be after 2001 I believe. I tossed my old regulations so pardon if I am off guys, my memory is getting old. Anyways, it did state your trainning had to be after a given date. A number of people in my county had to retake the class as they took it 6 months before the shall issue law and the gun boards were holding to the published date. I taught the CCW class for two years and had a number of people who were retaking due to the gun board and the date issue. 
Fast forward to today:
BUT...with the changes..article 28.425j states that traing described in section 5b (7) (c) and no date is mentioned anywhere in the section. So it looks like the old date where it stated your trainning had to be after was taken out. Under the section in history it shows changes in 2000 effect july 1, 2001 and then changed by Act 719 effect July1, 2003.

Your certification should have been given a date by the instructor or organization. I sure rember signing and dating about 40 a month for quite a while.


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## kingfishcam (Jul 16, 2002)

Bobby,

You should not have a problem, but I recommended a 4 hour referesher course for a couple of reasons. First, it has been a couple of years since you took the class, review would be good, second, the county would like to know that you care enough to take a refresher class, instead of just reviewing the material yourself, and third, the county would like to see that you had the training within 6months prior to applying. It is not a renewal, but it would not hurt.

I think it is time and money well spent, but do you HAVE to, probably not.


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## 45/70fan (May 29, 2005)

Refresher course and voluntary education ,I have no problem with, in fact I would encourage it. What I disagree with are gun boards setting arbitrary standards contrary to what the law stipulates as a requirement. 
Until and unless enough people start challenging these gun boards on their conduct which often is contrary to lawful actions they will continue to dictate to their constitutents that which they wish the legislature had set forth as lawful requirements. 
Never forget that these gun boards are composed of elected and appointed individuals that work for you and I, not the other way. They have standards to follow the same as you and I, when we let them stray from those standards they become accountable to no one but themselves.


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## A-plus (Mar 30, 2003)

Provided the course you took meets the current standards of the CCW law and states so on it, there is no expiration date. You may want to take a look at the State Police website page regarding frequently asked questions about CCW issues - http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10953--,00.html


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