# English Setter lines



## dallasdog (Nov 17, 2009)

If you were going to buy a Setter pup mainly for Grouse and Woodcock hunting what blood lines would you look for and why? Where would you buy a dog with them lines? FYI will be looking for a pup soon!


----------



## Dave Medema (Jan 18, 2005)

This is a loaded question. 

What range to you prefer? Size? Speed? Retrieving required? FT or Classic? 

Once you have all that answered, we can steer your toward some good sources.


----------



## RCA DOGS (Sep 24, 2011)

Best thing to do is if you have people you hunt with that have setters to your liking see where there dogs come from. 

Dan g


----------



## Ericgmci (Jun 27, 2010)

Dave Medema said:


> This is a loaded question.
> 
> What range to you prefer? Size? Speed? Retrieving required? FT or Classic?
> 
> Once you have all that answered, we can steer your toward some good sources.


Tekoa mountain sunrise lines cover everything. Win at all venues and complete bird dogs.


----------



## kellyM87 (Oct 23, 2008)

Ericgmci said:


> Tekoa mountain sunrise lines cover everything. Win at all venues and complete bird dogs.


I have a line bred TM sunrise dog. He's nice but he's not for the faint of heart. If you want an easy goer look elsewhere. Otherwise I agree with this post.


----------



## UplandJunkie (Feb 4, 2013)

Thats easy. Scrap the setter idea and get a Brittany! Tails are overrated!!!


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## dauber (Jan 11, 2010)

UplandJunkie said:


> Thats easy. Scrap the setter idea and get a Brittany! Tails are overrated!!!
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Jack tried to shorten his at camp!


----------



## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

Bay Pines Setters

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## dauber (Jan 11, 2010)

She looks pretty tired. Needs a partner. Good luck with your research DD.


----------



## midwestfisherman (Apr 19, 2001)

There's a lot to choose from out there. I'll speak to what I am most familiar with. There are several good breeders here in Michigan. Bryan Wood of Pinckney, Mi is an excellent breeder of setters and pointers. His setter are out of field trial lines and go back to some very good blood. I've bought a couple of pups from Bryan and know his breeding program very well. I've been very happy with the pups that I have gotten from Bryan. Bryan has been breeding dogs for many years and knows his stuff.

Another in Michigan is Rich Hollister in Roscommon, Mi. Rich is breeding some very nice setters. Most of his pups go to hunters. His stock is mainly from trial lines and he is an excellent trainer as well. His dogs do consistently well in the grouse and woodcock trials. Rich's breeding program goes back to some classic Michigan cover dog lines with some very nice out-crossings to some proven current day grouse dogs.

Dave Terhaar is another avid field trialer in Michigan who breeds a few litter each year. Dave has two of the top grouse trial dogs in the country that have been producing some excellent pups the past few years.

As far as the Tekoa Mountain Sunrise bloodline I have a dog who is line bred TMS on the bottom side. The top side of his pedigree goes back to some classic cover dog dog lines such as Body Guard, Ghost Train, Still Meadow's, and Grouse Ridge. He's eight now and I wouldn't trade this dog for anything. He's a high energy dog and without some help from a pro trainer in his early years it could have been a difficult time getting him into shape. Once he went through the paces with his trainer he became a model dog for grouse and woodcock hunting and has stayed that way.

He's a big running dog but handles very well. He handles his birds well and has learned over the years how to pin his birds and relocate if needed. When this dog goes on point I can trust that he has a bird. I wouldn't hesitate to go with another dog from these lines. I have a pup out of him that is now 3 years old that is taking after his "old man". I have high hopes that he'll turn into as good of a dog as his sire is. So far so good! 

Why would I choose any of these lines? Because they're great dogs, great with the family, great companions, they produce birds, and are fun as hell to hunt behind. I love watching these dogs work in the woods!

As always YMMV.


----------



## dallasdog (Nov 17, 2009)

Dave Medema said:


> This is a loaded question.
> 
> What range to you prefer? Size? Speed? Retrieving required? FT or Classic?
> 
> Once you have all that answered, we can steer your toward some good sources.


This is not a loaded question Just want other opinions I know what I am looking for. I want to know what others look for. Maybe I have forgotten something of will learn about a breeder that I have not heard of. Thanks for the info guys!


----------



## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

I realize that information is what this board is all about, but questions like what's the best type of setter breeding are fodder for wars on this board, historically. 

There are two distinct types of ES's in MI, with some interbreeding of both types. One type is known as the cover dog line, primarily field trial lines, of smaller, faster, very quick ES's you can primarily identify because of their size, weight and coloration-cover dogs types tend to have more patches and tri-colors, while the other distinct line is called the Ryman/OH type of dog. These are larger, heavier dogs, tend to have heavier coats marked with "belton" markings of either black or brown, usually noted by lots of those dots of colors that appear to be "blended" into the coat. 

Both make excellent bird dogs in any type of terrain with the proper conditioning. For most of us the decision usually comes down to whether you want a dog that will move right out and cover a whole lot of ground in a very short amount of time or a dog that will hunt much closer and slower. 

Both types are proven bird finders.

I would take this off this board and start looking into some of the different breeders, you can google the types of setters and come up with dozens of different breeders in the Midwest. 

Then make arrangements to actually get out there and hunt with some of those dogs, and get to know the people owned by them. 

You'll make the best decision you can.


----------



## Mike McDonald (Sep 10, 2007)

Linda G. said:


> I realize that information is what this board is all about, but questions like what's the best type of setter breeding are fodder for wars on this board, historically.
> 
> There are two distinct types of ES's in MI, with some interbreeding of both types. One type is known as the cover dog line, primarily field trial lines, of smaller, faster, very quick ES's you can primarily identify because of their size, weight and coloration-cover dogs types tend to have more patches and tri-colors, while the other distinct line is called the Ryman/OH type of dog. These are larger, heavier dogs, tend to have heavier coats marked with "belton" markings of either black or brown, usually noted by lots of those dots of colors that appear to be "blended" into the coat.
> 
> ...


Excellent post. I would add look at dogs from parents that have OFA good hips or better. Although more difficult to ascertain I would also try to find a dog from lines that haven't had a problems with hypothryoidism. Dysplasia and hypothryoidism are genetic problems in english setters. macvet51


----------



## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

Steelheadfred said:


> Bay Pines Setters


----------



## Dave Medema (Jan 18, 2005)

I protest. Nothing wrong with the breeders suggested but the OP needs to clarify his desires.

This is like saying "I need a car" and people throwing options at him. What kind of car/dog does he want would be helpful before options are considered.


----------



## Parkerman (Feb 3, 2006)

2ESRGR8 said:


>


 Scott, got a website or phone number, on a google search just get a vet clinic in Petoskey


----------



## Mike McDonald (Sep 10, 2007)

Lines don't matter, just get a tri color female. mac


----------



## FieldWalker (Oct 21, 2003)

Dave Medema said:


> I protest. Nothing wrong with the breeders suggested but the OP needs to clarify his desires.
> 
> This is like saying "I need a car" and people throwing options at him. What kind of car/dog does he want would be helpful before options are considered.


Am I missing something? I understand the original post quite well. 

He wants to know what people would buy, why, and where. Maybe he doesn't know what he wants yet and is simply looking for a consensus in regards to setter blood.


----------



## boz03 (Jun 12, 2004)

Something else to consider, your age and body condition. I have one of Rich Hollister's dogs. Points more birds than any dog I have hunted behind. Covers lots of ground. Me, being 77 years old, can't keep up with him. Would have loved to have had him 20 years ago.

Now, should he point more than 60 yards, I sit down and wait until he returns. I am too old and slow.


----------



## Dave Medema (Jan 18, 2005)

FieldWalker said:


> Am I missing something? I understand the original post quite well.
> 
> He wants to know what people would buy, why, and where. Maybe he doesn't know what he wants yet and is simply looking for a consensus in regards to setter blood.



I understand. I stated originally that this is loaded question. Without knowing his preferences, I have a hard time understanding why he would want my or your or anyone elses opinion. 

If I want a 100 yard dog, I'd consider option X.

If I want a 50 yard dog, I'd consider option Y.

If I want a 40 Lb FT dog, I'd consider Z.

If I want a 70 Lb Ryman/OH dog, I'd go with Q. 

All are good breeders. All dogs will hunt grouse well. But how I prefer to hunt and the OP prefers to hunt could be night and day. I could be putting forth a perfectly good answer to a question he isn't asking. 

FWIW - I prefer FT dogs in the 100 yard range.


----------



## ncgreg (Dec 26, 2010)

Well Boz03 i am relating some to what you and midwestern said. My pup from elvis and grouse river is white smoke thru the woods, am really enjoying this year! While i guess cant help the op much on his question, I would look at what midwestern referenced. In meantime, trying to keep up and having a blast, all the best.

Whoever coined "silence is golden" musta been a bird hunter.


----------



## mudbat2128 (Sep 7, 2004)

I like my setters out of coverdog lines. I break them out pretty early, seems to keep them in the 100, 150 yard range. I got my last 2 dogs from Pioneer kennels and I'm hoping they have something planned for this spring.


----------



## Jay Johnson (Jan 10, 2008)

I would check with Sally Downer in Traverse City, MI and see if she is planning to breed.

Why? I think you would get a good grouse and woodcock hunting dog.

In retrospect I wish I would have taken my own advice this past Spring but, on a bit of a flyer I purchased a dog of other lines.


----------



## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

Parkerman said:


> Scott, got a website or phone number, on a google search just get a vet clinic in Petoskey


You got the right place, ask for Dr. McDonald.
He can be a grumpy old bass turd but if you're serious stick with him.


----------



## Timber (Jan 1, 2009)

Dave Medema said:


> I understand. I stated originally that this is loaded question. Without knowing his preferences, I have a hard time understanding why he would want my or your or anyone elses opinion.
> 
> If I want a 100 yard dog, I'd consider option X.
> 
> ...


Okay if you own a said dog that runs big does that mean most birds will or wont be there when i arrive, I'm 41 and i can move pretty good yet but i don't want run through the woods. What do you recommend i need a bird finding machine 


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## dallasdog (Nov 17, 2009)

FYI....Dave M you have been no help so far.... Like I said I know what I am looking for, I want to know what others look for in a grouse dog and why! and what blood lines carry them traits (generally) and where they got them from. Its not that hard. Thanks to the guys and gals who have answered the question somewhat.


----------



## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

Timber said:


> i need a bird finding machine


 Join the club.


----------



## Dave Medema (Jan 18, 2005)

dallasdog said:


> FYI....Dave M you have been no help so far.... .



I'll post this pic of our bag after a 90 minute hunt last week. I think we had over 30 pointed grouse in that 90 minutes. Not bad....12 dead grouse and a phez my buddy found left over in his truck after guiding at a boot and scoot. I must know crap about this grouse stuff and especially about setters and grouse. 

I'm out.


----------



## Dave Medema (Jan 18, 2005)

Timber said:


> Okay if you own a said dog that runs big does that mean most birds will or wont be there when i arrive, I'm 41 and i can move pretty good yet but i don't want run through the woods. What do you recommend i need a bird finding machine


See pic in previous post. What I do must work for me. I'm 47 and still move pretty good. I've had similar ranging dogs for 20+ years and have had similar results in all those years.


----------



## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

That's embarassing, who shot the woodcock?


----------



## Dave Medema (Jan 18, 2005)

2ESRGR8 said:


> That's embarassing, who shot the woodcock?


My buddy with a french brit. It was 100% embarrassing. We came into the point, watched the WC flush, yelled "WC" (similar to "HEN" while chasing clowns), and then BANG. We lowered our heads in shame.


----------



## dallasdog (Nov 17, 2009)

Dave M. I dont care how many birds you shoot or how many anyone else shoots you still have not answered the question. I did not say you know nothing about grouse hunting I just said you have been no help thus far. I have owned a few and also shot my share of birds I live in the middle of the UP and hunt almost every day I know what I am doing and talking about as well.

Lets start over. What lines are your setters out of and why do you like them and what do you look for when buying a pup? . 

For instance: My last dog was out of Grouse Ridge lines he was a natural retriever and always wanted to please me and had as much drive as i have seen in a dog. My 2 year old female is out of mainly Tekoa lines she is more athletic and has a better nose and ranges about perfect for my liking.however, I will have to force fetch train her and she seems to hunt for herself rather then me. but she is a bird finding machine. If I were to buy a pup right now with them two choices I would go with the Grouse ridge dog from XXXX breeder Because. . . 

This is just an example


----------



## Northbound (Sep 17, 2000)

2ESRGR8 said:


> You got the right place, ask for Dr. McDonald.
> He can be a grumpy old bass turd but if you're serious stick with him.













_Last week in the U.P._


----------



## UplandJunkie (Feb 4, 2013)

Dave Medema said:


> I'll post this pic of our bag after a 90 minute hunt last week. I think we had over 30 pointed grouse in that 90 minutes. Not bad....12 dead grouse and a phez my buddy found left over in his truck after guiding at a boot and scoot. I must know crap about this grouse stuff and especially about setters and grouse.
> 
> I'm out.


Those suburbans are mighty fine road hunting machines! Tell me, after you ground swat them do your dogs jump out and retrieve them? I had a friend with a lab that did that and he thought he was king s it too. 

Seriously though, I don't think anyone cares how many birds you shoot. How awesome you and your dogs are and how much you know about grouse. It was a very simple question and you decided to make it really complicated and make yourself look like a giant douche. Congrats!


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


----------



## midwestfisherman (Apr 19, 2001)

Dave Medema said:


> My buddy with a french brit. It was 100% embarrassing. We came into the point, watched the WC flush, yelled "WC" (similar to "HEN" while chasing clowns), and then BANG. We lowered our heads in shame.


:lol:

BTW, some of you guys need to chillllllllll. ne_eye:


----------



## Dave Medema (Jan 18, 2005)

UplandJunkie said:


> Seriously though, I don't think anyone cares how many birds you shoot. How awesome you and your dogs are and how much you know about grouse. It was a very simple question and you decided to make it really complicated and make yourself look like a giant douche. Congrats!
> 
> 
> Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Please follow along. The OP asked about lines of setters. I asked for more specific info about what he desires before I'd make a recommendation. At some point I said I prefer 100 yd dogs and someone asked if the dog is that far out if I still get shots at birds so I posted the pic. 

Am I missing something? 

If the OP wants to know what I look for in a setter, I want smarts, handling, speed, gait. My dogs have come from FT lines. My current dog is out of Fireside kennels in Wisconsin. They bred Toni to Stone Tavern Matrix. I think there are 12+ CHs and several HOF dogs within 5 generations. He's a handful but gets the job done.


----------



## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

Dave Medema said:


> I'll post this pic of our bag after a 90 minute hunt last week. I think we had *over 30 pointed grouse in that 90 minutes. *Not bad....12 dead grouse and a phez my buddy found left over in his truck after guiding at a boot and scoot. I must know crap about this grouse stuff and especially about setters and grouse.
> 
> I'm out.


Over 30 pointed grouse in 90 minutes? 
If that dog can flash point a bird, run to the front 30% of the time, listen to you 20% of the time, run over 6 MPH, make 60 yard casts and point with a tail higher than 9:00, I know a bunch of pros who would probably pay _you_ to campaign your dog nationally!
Edit: Take that as a huge compliment unless there's more to the story ;-)


----------



## dauber (Jan 11, 2010)

FindTheBird said:


> Over 30 pointed grouse in 90 minutes?
> If that dog can flash point a bird, run to the front 30% of the time, listen to you 20% of the time, run over 6 MPH, make 60 yard casts and point with a tail higher than 9:00, I know a bunch of pros who would probably pay _you_ to campaign your dog nationally!
> Edit: Take that as a huge compliment unless there's more to the story ;-)


Thanks FTB. I thought it was just that I am quite happy with 3 grouse finds in a hour let alone one every 3 minutes, a grouse shot and found in less than 8 minutes, plus being able to get up to 30 points at 100 yards in the grouse woods 3 minutes each:SHOCKED::evil:


----------



## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

Dave must know the best grouse hunting spot in the state, I've never even heard of 30 pointed grouse in 90 minutes, much less ever seen anything like that. 

Let's see, how could that happen...running into 4-5 broods of young birds and their hen, all in, at the speed that most people walk through your average cover, say 500 acres, and I think I'm being generous with that acreage. That's a whole lot of birds in a very small area. 

Either that or there was five or six guys out there who could really cover ground, like at the rate that your average track star would move?

How could that happen? Reading this board lately, I am more and more convinced that I have to find different bird covers in areas where everybody else hunts...LOL


----------



## dallasdog (Nov 17, 2009)

The numbers posted above don't lie. This is all considering no missed shots. Dave Medena must be one hell of a shot as well. Even on a good day you would be pressed to bush whack 12 of them on the road let a loan in 90 minutes. I know guys that consistently shoot deer at 2 miles every year too. Thanks to every one that gave me useful info I guess this post is over now. It was a good laugh though. SMH


----------



## Scott Berg (Feb 24, 2008)

FindTheBird said:


> Over 30 pointed grouse in 90 minutes?
> If that dog can flash point a bird, run to the front 30% of the time, listen to you 20% of the time, run over 6 MPH, make 60 yard casts and point with a tail higher than 9:00, I know a bunch of pros who would probably pay _you_ to campaign your dog nationally!
> Edit: Take that as a huge compliment unless there's more to the story ;-)


I walked the brace that produced the winner and R/U the last year before the Wisconsin Cover Dog Classic became a Championship. I think the two dogs had 16 separate finds but it might have been 17. I don't know if there is a relevant point here but this discussion reminded me of that brace.


----------



## Dave Medema (Jan 18, 2005)

2 dogs and 4 hunters. We had a couple of smaller coveys and a handful of doubles. Throw in a couple reflushes and the numbers add up. Is the math so hard to understand? 

In terms of shooting, we shot well. Some days are better than others.

DD, you don't know me and yet you seem to whack pretty good. I just reread your original post in this thread and maybe I misunderstood. It seemed to me that you are beginning a search for pup and were looking for thoughts on finding a pup. I asked some questions trying to figure out what you prefer in a dog....nothing more. It spiraled from there to insults from you which I don't understand. In rereading it, it seems you know exactly what you want and were curious what others prefer. I did answer that question. Now you speculate on my shooting ability, honesty, and methods. All of this without knowing anything about me.


----------



## FieldWalker (Oct 21, 2003)

Dave Medema said:


> 2 dogs and 4 hunters. We had a couple of smaller coveys and a handful of doubles. Throw in a couple reflushes and the numbers add up. Is the math so hard to understand?
> 
> In terms of shooting, we shot well. Some days are better than others.
> 
> DD, you don't know me and yet you seem to whack pretty good. I just reread your original post in this thread and maybe I misunderstood. It seemed to me that you are beginning a search for pup and were looking for thoughts on finding a pup. I asked some questions trying to figure out what you prefer in a dog....nothing more. It spiraled from there to insults from you which I don't understand. In rereading it, it seems you know exactly what you want and were curious what others prefer. I did answer that question. Now you speculate on my shooting ability, honesty, and methods. All of this without knowing anything about me.


Agreed... the wheels came off on this one pretty quick. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

Dave Medema said:


> 2 dogs and 4 hunters. We had a couple of smaller coveys and a handful of doubles. Throw in a couple reflushes and the numbers add up. Is the math so hard to understand?
> 
> In terms of shooting, we shot well. Some days are better than others.


Thanks for elaborating Dave, sounds like a great day--continued good luck for the remainder of the season.


----------



## Timber (Jan 1, 2009)

Dave Medema said:


> See pic in previous post. What I do must work for me. I'm 47 and still move pretty good. I've had similar ranging dogs for 20+ years and have had similar results in all those years.


Dave, nice work on the birds, and i have no doubt you know what you are doing, just confused as to, similar ranging dogs. I was just wondering if having the more hard driving type dog, do you think the bird will have flushed before i have a chance to find the dog, in most cases.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## Dave Medema (Jan 18, 2005)

Timber said:


> Dave, nice work on the birds, and i have no doubt you know what you are doing, just confused as to, similar ranging dogs. I was just wondering if having the more hard driving type dog, do you think the bird will have flushed before i have a chance to find the dog, in most cases.


I've used this ranging dog for 20+ years and in that time have slowed down how fast I can walk thru the woods. My speed isn't the most important factor though. If the dog is on point, he should stay on point until I get there. The vast majority of time, the birds are still there too. I won't lie and say it's 100% as birds can and do walk away. When that happens, we release the dogs and they relocate. I'll also add that dogs make mistakes and run over or rip birds. That's just part of hunting. But, if the dog is honest on birds, I have no problem getting to the dogs and getting quality shots. There is a lot of trust involved though. There are lots of ways to hunt grouse effectively using pointing, flushing, and at various ranges. To each their own. 


I've guided many people who were in the 70's with my dogs. We hunted the same covers with the same dogs. It just took quite a bit longer to get to the dogs. 

Finally, just because the dogs range CAN be out past 100 yards or more, it certainly doesn't mean all the points are that far away. On the hunt from the pic, it was a much closer overall as the birds were cooperating nicely. We had some points 20 yards away and others farther. I suspect we had several coveys of running birds and while one dog was pointing a single, the other was 30 yards away pointing more from the same original group. As one dog was retrieving one bird, the rest of the group was heading to the next point. It was a fun hunt and at times we went from point to point to point to point.


----------



## Unregistered4 (Dec 11, 2004)

Man, I wish the grouse I hunted hung around twenty to third yards apart waiting to be pointed...after the one before them...and the one before that...and the one before that one...

Usually, "if" I get a bird pinned, along with its siblings, they all get up and get gone after the first bird or two make their move. Never had them waiting around for me. Must be nice.

By the way Dave...I want my money back on those "grouse killer" tires you sold me...and don't ask why either...

Brian.


----------



## Dave Medema (Jan 18, 2005)

Unregistered4 said:


> By the way Dave...I want my money back on those "grouse killer" tires you sold me...and don't ask why either...
> 
> Brian.


HE'S ALIVE!!!!

You're so old you forgot the tire details. I sold you the city-boy-get-stuck-in-the-woods tires so I could put the grouse killer ones on my rig. I haven't been stuck yet. In fact, I pulled a truck out of a puddle last week near Grayling.


----------



## Timber (Jan 1, 2009)

Dave Medema said:


> I've used this ranging dog for 20+ years and in that time have slowed down how fast I can walk thru the woods. My speed isn't the most important factor though. If the dog is on point, he should stay on point until I get there. The vast majority of time, the birds are still there too. I won't lie and say it's 100% as birds can and do walk away. When that happens, we release the dogs and they relocate. I'll also add that dogs make mistakes and run over or rip birds. That's just part of hunting. But, if the dog is honest on birds, I have no problem getting to the dogs and getting quality shots. There is a lot of trust involved though. There are lots of ways to hunt grouse effectively using pointing, flushing, and at various ranges. To each their own.
> 
> 
> I've guided many people who were in the 70's with my dogs. We hunted the same covers with the same dogs. It just took quite a bit longer to get to the dogs.
> ...


Okay thanks for the reply it is helpful, In deciding what route i choose. I need see some of these dogs work, also some other breeds, Before next fall. Thanks

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Ohub Campfire mobile app


----------



## dallasdog (Nov 17, 2009)

no hard feelings here ....but my comments were the least of the insults


----------



## Merimac (Jan 17, 2006)

Strange conversation. Dave hit the bullseye. He just asked what you were looking for and gets slapped for trying to be helpful. I dont get it.


----------



## Worm Dunker (Sep 11, 2000)

It you want a pup with a lot of winners in it look at what and who won the fall trials at Gladwin. I heard the ShaddyHills Boys did well with there breeding and chip chippena's( not spelled right) breeding. Dave Teharr's Elvis won the Invitational it's ran against the top grouse dogs in the country. Heartland Kennels has a granddaughter of ShaddyHills Billy/Elvis pups. Could be nice dogs Billy speed Elvis size. Grouse Ridge breeding (who I believe Elvis goes back to) did well in the east trials. I believe you will get your best pup direct for the kennels that bred these lines not from somebody on the internet who just sent his dog to be bread to a champoin to sell CH. pups. Come January is when most trial dogs are born so if you serios you may want to get on somebody list for a pup now the good one are usuall sold before they are born and what isn't goes fast. The last super litter I heard of I debated one day all 9 dog sold the next day.


----------



## N M Mechanical (Feb 7, 2008)

Worm Dunker said:


> It you want a pup with a lot of winners in it look at what and who won the fall trials at Gladwin. I heard the ShaddyHills Boys did well with there breeding and chip chippena's( not spelled right) breeding. Dave Teharr's Elvis won the Invitational it's ran against the top grouse dogs in the country. Heartland Kennels has a granddaughter of ShaddyHills Billy/Elvis pups. Could be nice dogs Billy speed Elvis size. Grouse Ridge breeding (who I believe Elvis goes back to) did well in the east trials. I believe you will get your best pup direct for the kennels that bred these lines not from somebody on the internet who just sent his dog to be bread to a champoin to sell CH. pups. Come January is when most trial dogs are born so if you serios you may want to get on somebody list for a pup now the good one are usuall sold before they are born and what isn't goes fast. The last super litter I heard of I debated one day all 9 dog sold the next day.


Welcome back!


----------



## dallasdog (Nov 17, 2009)

Like I said before I knew what I was looking for and this convo did not go as intended But I already have a deposit on a dog. Thanks anyway


----------



## Brian121208 (Dec 4, 2008)

What did you decide on?


----------



## Worm Dunker (Sep 11, 2000)

N M Mechanical not back just helping with a setter question, Just got of the phone with Scott Forman he said they won 4 championships this fall with there dogs. That says a lot about their breeding plan.


----------

