# Would you give up half your income for the deer?



## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Luv2hunteup _
> *
> But back to the theme of the thread, I think there is no need to worry about a no buck season anywhere in this state, at least in my life time. *



I agree!!


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

B&N,

Just because a few guys that support QDM say that we need a doe only season, doesn't mean the rest agree, or the scientific minds behind QDM agree for that matter, either. In fact, John Ozoga is saying that here in the mid to northern 1/2 of the U.P., it is often unappropriate to have ANY adult doe harvest...just a few fawns and yearlings from time to time. Not only would a doe only season be inappropriate for much of the U.P., but it could be highly irresponsible and detrmental to at least 1/2.

Also, many down-state hunters may think they contribute greatly to the economy up here, granted they do a little, but talk to anybody that runs a business up here and ask them how much by percentage they get from hunting season, especially outside of the 2 weeks of gun-season. Some of the local restaurants are even closed for all but the 2 weeks of gun season because of the lack of activity during that time of the year. Basically, for most businesses up here, if you don't make it from snowmowbilers first, and summertime tourists sencond....you won't survive, period. And quite a few don't. The example I gave you was one of many.

And you are right, snow season has been quite poor the past 2 years, and that's why some businesses have either closed, declared bankrupcy, or barely hanging on. Basically, they have lost over 1/2 their income from the year....snow season, and can't make it on just the summer tourist season, and especially not the sparse hunting season. 

Apparently, you have difficulty believing my voice of experience, but give the following businesses a call and see for your self: Any U.P. recreationally based motel or hotel, restaurant, and bar. Better yet, call the Pizza Hut in Newberry, Camel Rider's restaurant south of Wetmore, the Buckhorn restaurant and lodge in Munising, New Moon bar in Chatham, Shell Gas station in Manistique, the Bear Trap restaurant north of Shingleton, Delonis restaurant in Escanaba, or any of the locally based cabin rentals from Trout Lake to Iron River, and ask them when they make the bulk of their money. Not that they don't make a dime, but it ain't hunting season that pays the bills.


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## Swamp Ghost (Feb 5, 2003)

> During the 1970's the deer population in the Northern Lower Peninsula increased from 225,000 in 1970 to 500,000 in 1979. The harvest increased from 40,000 to 65,000 over the same period. Statewide the population went from 450,000 in 1970 to 900,000 in 1979 and the harvest from 68,000 to 120,000.


~Steve Chadwick MDNR


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## rb1 (Jun 24, 2002)

I read the quote for the 70's; but isn't this 2003? RB1


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## Freeputz (Jul 8, 2003)

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Swamp Ghost 

*You could have a doe only season and still kill more deer in the N. LP now, than both sexes combined in the 70's.*

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> _Originally posted by Whit1 _
> *SG,
> You're serious about the above statement aren't you?
> 
> ...


It is 2003, but people tend to forget what deer hunting was like 30 years ago.

Looks like Swamp's intention's, statements and quotes are right on the money.

Great job putting it in perspective!


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

> _Originally posted by Luv2hunteup _
> 
> 
> But back to the theme of the thread, I think there is no need to worry about a no buck season anywhere in this state, at least in my life time. [/B]


Quite possibly true. But fascinating how such an innocent idea, supported by 52% of MSF members (last time I looked), can cause some to work themselves into a tizz.


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## Freestone (May 15, 2003)

B&N, Are you just guessing that businesses would be giving up half their income? What are your sources of information regarding that figure?


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

Freestone,

The 50% figure is highly unrealistic for the U.P. at least. You can run a recreational business without even being opened during at least the 2 weeks of gun season in the U.P., but you cannot maintain positive cash flow without either snowmobiling, or summer tourist season. Hunting season is by percentage, very small to local recreational business owners. Not that it doesn't perk up a little, but not a profit maker by any means.


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## Bob S (Mar 8, 2000)

> I'd like to see a single DMU demonstration area, selected by field biologists as the DMU with the most obvious and severe overabundance of deer, and mandate an antlerless only harvest in that DMU for an entire season.


Since farmlegend`s original thread on this subject involved only one DMU. Since that DMU would most likely be in southern Michigan. I think it could actually help some of the business` "up north". If hunters could only shoot does in their DMU, they might go north for the firearm opener to buck hunt. This would help those traditional hunting areas of northern Michigan that have seen hunter numbers decline in the past few years as more hunters stay in the southern part of the state.


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## Freeputz (Jul 8, 2003)

Excellent point!

I know a "doe only" season wouldn't effect my hunting effort in the least. Being primarily a doe hunter I would look forward to a year or two of region 3 being a "doe only" zone. Then follow it up with some sort of restricted buck harvest.

One can dream.


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## beer and nuts (Jan 2, 2001)

"Not a profit maker...."-northjeff

Just goes to show how little alot of people know about the business. First let me say lots of resorts(hotels, cabins, etc..) and outdoor businesses(Jays, Franks, local stores, etc..) show little actual profit, what most do is pay the bills(taxes, wages, utilities, etc) and some really struggle to pay the bills. You take away that small percentage-Oct,Nov,Dec(not two weeks)-hunting clients and you can kiss the money that just puts alot of businesses/people over the hump in surviving next year.

No doubt summer season is the bread and butter-its the season that pays the bills, its the hunting season for many that puts the food on the table. Do you think your local gun/outdoor/bow shop would survive if it went to a doe season? Snowmobile season?In the UP?-not in the last couple years besides pocket areas like Munising.

I have no source for the 50%, it was more of a question to put yourself in someone elses shoes that relies heavily on the hunting season and to put it more harshly, would you give up job, your business for the deer? Realistically that is what will happen if a doe season ever comes about for more people than you think. 

Freeputz-I have no idea where you hunt but I would be interested on what you mean by "hunting effort" when taking a doe . Also if your a doe hunter, why would you care about buck restrictions?


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## Jeff Sturgis (Mar 28, 2002)

B&N,

All that I'm saying is that here in the U.P, snowmobiling is first, summer season 2nd, and hunting accounts for less than 5% for the entire year, if that. The areas that aren't really effected by snowmobiling, or summer tourism, hunting season doesn't apply either! To be exact, we, for the most part, don't have outdoor shops in most areas of the U.P., because they can not be supported financially due to the lack of hunting cash flow. The few we do have, are relative side businesses supported by a fixed income from another job.

For needed snowmobile seasons, don't just stop at Munising only benifiting, try Newberry, Paradise, Trout Lake, Grand Marais, Hougton/Hancock to the Keweenau, and every service station and restaurant along the way that experiences some of the highest traffic counts of the entire year.

We actually HAVE businesses that are supported purely by snowmobile and or summer tourism, but NONE that are just supported by hunters.....big difference!


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