# Home Defense Shotgun



## bigmac (Nov 28, 2000)

Hey guys- I am looking to purchase a new or used HDS. I will be using it to just target shoot with also, not worried about long range...basically from my bed to doorway. What do you shoot and do you have any advice? Thanks


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## skulldugary (Apr 12, 2003)

My HDS is a Mossberg 12ga. pump with an 18 1/2" smooth bore slug barrel backed with 00 buck.When it comes to the home I want maximum stopping power.


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## The Nailer (Feb 7, 2000)

Bigmac,

A friend of mine was at camp a couple weeks ago and brought his new home defense gun, a NEF Pardner® Pump Protector. Very similar to an 870, very compact and seemed to shoot pretty good. He patterned a number of loads, as well as, a few slugs. It has an 18-1/2" IC choked barrel and is reasonalbly priced. I saw them online from about $175.00-235.00. If you only wanted it for that one purpose and didn't want to spend a lot this may be a good option.


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## The Sarge (Sep 26, 2010)

Up in Coleman at Ram Rod Gun Shop they have a side by side 20 ga coach gun that's pretty cool. I wasn't sure about a 20 ga for home protection, but at close range how can you miss. I think it's only $300.00. You have to make an appointment though. Their number is 989-205-2073. Good luck.


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## SNAREMAN (Dec 10, 2006)

Mossberg 500 or rem.870 in 12 or 20ga.


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## WoW (Oct 26, 2010)

glockman55 said:


> SHOT GUN FOR HOME DEFENCE...A BIT CLUBERSOME DON'T YA THINK??
> 
> 
> 
> I never have been one to think that the racking noise of a 12 ga. pump is gonna do much for scaring off the bad guy..lol


Cumbersome, how so? Maybe he doesn't plan on sleeping with it or keeping it on his nightstand.

Secondly, who said anything about racking for effect? 

Finally, he didn't ask for opions on the best platform for HD, he asked about shotguns.

Whats that saying---I will use my pistol to fight my way to my rifle or something like that?


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## NittanyDoug (May 30, 2006)

Mossberg makes a 500 Home Defender. Comes with 2 barrels. One is 18 1/2" flared at the end to spread them and serations if you run out of shells I guess. Looks mean. The other is a standard 28" smooth barrel with the removable choke. It was pretty reasonable in the $250-ish range I think. Comes in all black with synthetic stock.


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## Sib (Jan 8, 2003)

NittanyDoug said:


> Mossberg makes a 500 Home Defender. Comes with 2 barrels. One is 18 1/2" flared at the end to spread them and serations if you run out of shells I guess. Looks mean. The other is a standard 28" smooth barrel with the removable choke. It was pretty reasonable in the $250-ish range I think. Comes in all black with synthetic stock.


That 18.5 inch barrel your referring to is called a breecher barrel. It's sort of like a bayonet, for close combat.


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

Sib said:


> That 18.5 inch barrel your referring to is called a breecher barrel. It's sort of like a bayonet, for close combat.


 Remington tactical 12ga. A gunshop in Livonia has a couple of them on there used rack.


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## UPhiker (Jul 13, 2008)

Sib said:


> That 18.5 inch barrel your referring to is called a breecher barrel. It's sort of like a bayonet, for close combat.


Wrong. A breecher barrel's real purpose is to blow the hinges off a door during a raid. The teeth bite into the wood of the door to keep it in place and the vents on the flared end give the gas somewhere to go.


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)




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## NittanyDoug (May 30, 2006)

It has the vents and teeth. Either way I hope I never have to use it for that. It sure looks like it would take a bite out of you if it came down to that.

_OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors_


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## Hoppe's no.10 (Sep 16, 2007)

bigmac said:


> Hey guys- I am looking to purchase a new or used HDS. I will be using it to just target shoot with also, not worried about long range...basically from my bed to doorway. What do you shoot and do you have any advice? Thanks


This is kind of like the: "What do you guys think of the Taurus Judge? I'm looking for a good defensive carry handgun but also want something I can rabbit hunt with and perhaps shoot a deer with, " posts that are all to common here.

Most defensive (home or otherwise) shotguns have very short barrels for very good reasons. Most target shotguns these days have very long barrels with 28" being the minimum, 30" being the norm, 32" becoming very popular and 34" being not unheard of - all for very good reasons.

Can you break a clay pigeon with a 16" - 18" barreled shotgun? Yes but you will break a lot more with a longer barrel. Can you kill an intruder with a 30" barreled sporting clays gun? Yes but you'll find a shorter barrel much handier in a darkened hallway or other close quarters.

Target shotguns were never designed to be used as a defensive weapons nor were defensive shotguns meant to be used as a target shotgun.

So of the two - target, defense - which is most important to you?

Hoppe's no.10


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## I'llbeoutside (Feb 2, 2003)

http://www.keltecweapons.com/news/preview-kel-tec-shotgun-ksg/

:yikes:


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## UPhiker (Jul 13, 2008)

Hoppe's no.10 said:


> This is kind of like the: "What do you guys think of the Taurus Judge? I'm looking for a good defensive carry handgun but also want something I can rabbit hunt with and perhaps shoot a deer with, " posts that are all to common here.
> 
> Most defensive (home or otherwise) shotguns have very short barrels for very good reasons. Most target shotguns these days have very long barrels with 28" being the minimum, 30" being the norm, 32" becoming very popular and 34" being not unheard of - all for very good reasons.
> 
> ...


There you go, dragging common sense into the discussion...
I notice that on this and several other sites. People want a special gun for every species of game that they hunt, yet want to go cheap when it's a defensive gun, which is much more important.


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## DaGuy (Jan 13, 2011)

You cannot go wrong with a Mossberg or Remington pump with a short barrel. A Benelli pump or semi-auto is good as well but I picked up a Saiga with serious use in mind. Runs like an AK. High quality, hi-cap mags available. Light weight and accessory friendly. Just a thought!
http://www.saiga-12.com/


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## inland44 (Dec 1, 2008)

I have a vintage Ithaca model 37 with a 18.5 inch brrl loaded with 00 buck. its not fancy and its not mean looking but it cost me $175 at GMT about 3 years ago and its with in arms reach when TSHF. Also have a S&W 5906 loaded with 16rds of 142gr Starfire hollow points in the bedside safe. Both are fun to shoot and the total HD package cost less thatn $600.00


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## bigmac (Nov 28, 2000)

Some of you guys crack me up, Ok let me clarify, I want a HDS for my home. I will shoot it at full milk jugs at 5-10 yds or pop cans at close range etc...then it will be put in my closet at close reach and the next time it will be shot...hopefully never will be at an intruder.
BTW I have guns for deer hunting, turkey hunting, small game, upland bird and trap and even sporting clays. I have guns that sit in my safe that will never be shot because of sentimental reasons. 
I never ONCE mentioned a price range either..
Thanks to those of you read the question and offered suggestions and not YOUR OPINIONS
There...do a couple of you "holier than thou's" feel better?
GEEZE, I feel sorry for some of you guys, not gettin' any lately huh?


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## boltaction (Dec 5, 2001)

> There...do a couple of you "holier than thou's" feel better?
> GEEZE, I feel sorry for some of you guys, not gettin' any lately huh?


:lol::lol::lol:
I don't know what to tell you other than I wouldn't spend too much money on it. May be you could find a good deal on one at a gun show. I keep a single shot 16 ga with buck shot in my closet. I guess it would be better to have a dbl barrel or a pump but I think the single could get the job done. If not it should slow them down enough so as to grab my 9 mm from under the mattress.


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

bigmac said:


> Some of you guys crack me up, Ok let me clarify, I want a HDS for my home. I will shoot it at full milk jugs at 5-10 yds or pop cans at close range etc...then it will be put in my closet at close reach and the next time it will be shot...hopefully never will be at an intruder.
> BTW I have guns for deer hunting, turkey hunting, small game, upland bird and trap and even sporting clays. I have guns that sit in my safe that will never be shot because of sentimental reasons.
> I never ONCE mentioned a price range either..
> Thanks to those of you read the question and offered suggestions and not YOUR OPINIONS
> ...


 Between that and not getting their daily dose of Prunes, there are some opinionated, cranky people around here


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## fathom this (Feb 10, 2008)

2PawsRiver said:


> I don't think any single weapon is the right choice in all situations. For the vast majority I would say a pistol is the better choice because it gives you options if something goes wrong.......and when prowling through your home in search of an intruder, there is a good chance things could go wrong.
> 
> Just moving through a house with a long gun is difficult. Most tend to bring a shotgun to shoulder, lowered while looking over the top of the sights, moving past doorways, rounding corners, barrel first. Bad guy gets a hold of the barrel, and now it's just an even one handed fight, and nobody wants an even fight with an intruder.
> 
> ...


 Finally someone with a head on their shoulders. Have you considered the chance that your child or children might someday find said weapon in the closet and bring it out to play with. Have you considered the mess you can make with one of these weapons at close range. It is very traumatic, even if you just hit a wall and woodwork. Maybee the intruder has your child in their arms when they enter your bedroom. You may need to get a new house after you are finished using it, and a new cleaning lady.:lol::lol::lol:


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

18" barrel on my ithaca 37 with 00 hidden in our dormer (safe room) floor..
Ruger45 in a shadow box on the wall

Hopefully that is where they stay


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## NoWake (Feb 7, 2006)

2PawsRiver said:


> I don't think any single weapon is the right choice in all situations. For the vast majority I would say a pistol is the better choice because it gives you options if something goes wrong.......and when prowling through your home in search of an intruder, there is a good chance things could go wrong.
> 
> Just moving through a house with a long gun is difficult. Most tend to bring a shotgun to shoulder, lowered while looking over the top of the sights, moving past doorways, rounding corners, barrel first. Bad guy gets a hold of the barrel, and now it's just an even one handed fight, and nobody wants an even fight with an intruder.
> 
> ...


 
A lot of very good advice in this post.


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## yooperkenny (Jul 13, 2004)

fathom this said:


> Finally someone with a head on their shoulders....


Yep Mark, that Yooper education has carried you far!  Lots of thought provoking ideas here that are appreciated on a topic that's not as simple as some make it out to be...


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## Sib (Jan 8, 2003)

Some people like get tacticool with their guns, but of course, it isn't necessary. Not all guns lend themselves to being good choices for certain accessories. Notice the photo below of a Mossberg and a pistol grip (top photo) aftermarket stock. Not a good choice, imo, because of the location of the safety on a Mossberg. With a pistol grip stock the thumb is under the receiver for operation, while the safety is on the top of the receiver. Bad ergonomics for the safety design. It's a situation where looks trump function and the original stock would be a better choice. This style stock would, however, function well with shotguns that have the safety located on and around the trigger guard. 










Check out how much better the 870 lends itself to a pistol grip stock, because of the location of the safety. The trigger hand is ready for action while operating the safety. Not a ridiculous reach to activate the safety.









It doesn't mean the Mossberg isn't a good choice for home defense, just that choosing accessories is important based on the model gun you have and not because they're cool looking. I have a Mossberg for home defense and if I ever change the stock it will be a Hogue moldover youth stock and not a pistol grip, for the exact reason I mentioned. The youth stock allowing for better handling in tight situations, without having the bad ergonomic of a pistol grip.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

Flash said:


> Massad Ayoob


 Ought to be required reading for all gun owners. If nothing else you guys owe it to yourselves to get Stressfire 1 and both 2's.


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## brushbuster (Nov 9, 2009)

Lots of good info in this thread. I particularly like the perspective from a law enforcement officer. I have always put a pump in the bedroom, but after reading this i think a small hand gun would be much more beneficial. Close encounters as a last resort.


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## Laid Back 57 (Sep 22, 2007)

Ithaca Model 37,8 shot,would be my first choice in a 12ga. home defence shotgun.


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

Laid Back 57 said:


> Ithaca Model 37,8 shot,would be my first choice in a 12ga. home defence shotgun.


 Can you get an add on for the 8 shot or does it have to come from ithaca that way?


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## Laid Back 57 (Sep 22, 2007)

SBOOY42,

You can get 5 or 8 shot in 12ga.Just 5 in 20ga.


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## Hunt4Ever (Sep 9, 2000)

I like this one. Benelli M4. I would load it with birdshot for home defense. Over penetration is a real issue. If you think it is to light for home defense, pull the trigger on your intruder and see what they have to say about it being weak. Even birdshot at 10 yards should be enough to solve your problem.


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## sbooy42 (Mar 6, 2007)

Laid Back 57 said:


> SBOOY42,
> 
> You can get 5 or 8 shot in 12ga.Just 5 in 20ga.


Thanks I was just wondering because I have 2 37s that are 5 shots


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## WoW (Oct 26, 2010)

2PawsRiver said:


> I don't think any single weapon is the right choice in all situations. For the vast majority I would say a pistol is the better choice because it gives you options if something goes wrong.......and when prowling through your home in search of an intruder, there is a good chance things could go wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Some good points but....advising people to assume the "kill them" positioin because they came through the door is in my opinion, very bad advice no matter what the qualifications of the person giving it.

"I read it on the internet" is not a viable defense to the killer mentality some people mistakenly chose to develop under the castle doctrine.

That said, if you are going to try and stop the threat, it pays to have something that effectively gets the job done. You tell me what pistol caliber provides that kind of reliable stopping power? 

And, like you say, lots of people don't practice to become proficient even in broad day light with their weapon of choice so, it is going to be more difficult under stress in very possibly a low light situation.

You tell me, which is easier to become proficient with, a snubby or a long gun? I rest my case...


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## jhuhn918 (Aug 30, 2007)

WoW said:


> Some good points but....advising people to assume the "kill them" positioin because they came through the door is in my opinion, very bad advice no matter what the qualifications of the person giving it.
> 
> "I read it on the internet" is not a viable defense to the killer mentality some people mistakenly chose to develop under the castle doctrine.
> 
> ...


Woah.... Maybe you shouldn't rest your case so fast...... A handgun that has the right accessories for home defense can and would be just as deadly as a long gun... You'll be surprised what night sights, a light or a laser will do in a low light situation


Posted via the Ohub App


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

You've not filled out your profile do I do not know your experiences, but rest assured..........you're wrong.



WoW said:


> Some good points but....advising people to assume the "kill them" positioin because they came through the door is in my opinion, very bad advice no matter what the qualifications of the person giving it.
> 
> "I read it on the internet" is not a viable defense to the killer mentality some people mistakenly chose to develop under the castle doctrine.
> 
> ...


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## Hoppe's no.10 (Sep 16, 2007)

WoW said:


> You tell me, which is easier to become proficient with, a snubby or a long gun? I rest my case...


With all due respect your case is far from rested. The *ONLY* way one can truly become proficient with a defensive weapon is to shoot it a lot - as in an awful lot - under a lot of diverse conditions. How many people do that with a shotgun? I'll bet not many. What happens when the dirt bag grabs the barrel of your shotgun as it's being forwarded around a corner? Then what do you do especially if the dirt bag has a handgun in his other hand and it's pointed at your chest? 

A shotgun is certainly a formidable weapon - in trained hands. Per my previous post most who buy a shotgun for defense rarely shoot it much especially under diverse and "artificially" stressful conditions and are only competent with it when shooting at water filled milk jugs on a sunny day. A far cry from a truly hazardous scenario.

Hoppe's no. 10


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## jhuhn918 (Aug 30, 2007)

Hoppe's no.10 said:


> With all due respect your case is far from rested. The *ONLY* way one can truly become proficient with a defensive weapon is to shoot it a lot - as in an awful lot - under a lot of diverse conditions. How many people do that with a shotgun? I'll bet not many. What happens when the dirt bag grabs the barrel of your shotgun as it's being forwarded around a corner? Then what do you do especially if the dirt bag has a handgun in his other hand and it's pointed at your chest?
> 
> A shotgun is certainly a formidable weapon - in trained hands. Per my previous post most who buy a shotgun for defense rarely shoot it much especially under diverse and "artificially" stressful conditions and are only competent with it when shooting at water filled milk jugs on a sunny day. A far cry from a truly hazardous scenario.
> 
> Hoppe's no. 10


Very well worded Hoppe's.... The most important word... Practice, Practice, Practice with the home defense gun of your liking that's what will make you proficient but to narrow out handguns... Boy oh boy I think your case has been opened back up rather you liked it or not Mr Wow... Lol


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

Hoppe's no.10 said:


> Have you considered a Taurus Judge? :lol::lol:
> 
> Hoppe's no.10


 Best advice you have given to present date.:lol::lol::lol::evil: I have one and seriously looking for another.


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## WoW (Oct 26, 2010)

bigmac said:


> Hey guys- *I am looking to purchase a new or used HDS*. I will be using it to just target shoot with also, not worried about long range...*basically from my bed to doorway*. What do you shoot and do you have any advice? Thanks


 
Home defense shotgun. Stay on topic folks, he didn't ask to read about other alternatives.

And, while that M-4 is a sweet shotgun, those sights aren't really necessary for interior ranges. And I have already addressed selection of the proper load, one designed for its intended use, NOT something designed for 2 lb birds or small furry animals.

While he didn't ask about tactical advice, neither did he ask for a weapon for room to room clearing exercises either. And the hypothetical about the barrel grabbing is pure nonsense. Heck, if he gets himself in a jam with any gun that an intruder is able to grab the barrel of, his tactics sucked to begin with and all the advice in the world from internet gurus isn't going to save his fanny then.

Sure, flashlights are handy on HD weapons, afterall, we really do want to positively identify the target before we go "kill" anything and everything that steps through the bedroom door now don't we. Sure, lasers are great site aids but, they are no substitute for fundamentals and while I like the ones that I have, they are not anymore lethal than the flashlight. Both are tools to assist in getting the job done and are not the actual delivery system.

Back to weapons, shotguns...you know, like the topic. Short bbls are better obviously easier to negotiate in confined spaces. IMHO, pistol grips (without stock) suck for most people. Some people load dutch, some stick with either buckshot or slugs.

Whatever is chosen, patterning is important. One doesn't have to practice shooting through drywall and studs (especially corners) to know that certain rounds have limitations. Look at it this way, if you need to shoot somewhere, you really do want the projectile to get to its intended target. Knowing ones backstop is a fundamental safety rule and apartment dwellers may have extra considerations, as do those with children living in the home.

Suffice it to say, if somebody needs to ask the questions posed on this thread, they need to spend alot more time learning before they start spending money on any shotgun and ammo.

Finally, I will admit...pistols are handy tools to have around but, the fact remains, most pistol calibers are simply not effective man stoppers. Heck, not all rifle calibers are either. While I trust in the Lord, I don't want have to rely on divine intervention because I selected an inferior tool to protect my loved ones. To each their own...


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## 2PawsRiver (Aug 4, 2002)

If somebody posted that they were looking for a good bouquet of flowers to use for home defense, I could stay on topic and recommend Roses as they also have thorns, or I could offer up some advice about a possible better alternative to flowers, though he asked about flowers.:lol:


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## jhuhn918 (Aug 30, 2007)

WoW said:


> Home defense shotgun. Stay on topic folks, he didn't ask to read about other alternatives.
> 
> And, while that M-4 is a sweet shotgun, those sights aren't really necessary for interior ranges. And I have already addressed selection of the proper load, one designed for its intended use, NOT something designed for 2 lb birds or small furry animals.
> 
> ...



Can you say Wow.... That's quite alot of talk coming from someone who originally asked the question that brought handguns into this by asking what's easier to become more proficient at using and resting your case... Anyways goodluck to whatever he chooses




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## WoW (Oct 26, 2010)

jhuhn918 said:


> Can you say Wow.... *That's quite alot of talk coming from someone who originally asked the question that brought handguns into this by asking what's easier to become more proficient at using and resting your case...* Anyways goodluck to whatever he chooses
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks to me like you might want to reread the thread before you start pointing misguided fingers at me.

Look at my first post on this thread.

Look at the quote. 

Read the quote.

Note the fact that somebody stated shotguns are too cumbersome.

If not a shotgun what then....a bunch of roses? C'mon....

Anyway, it looks like that somebody deleted their post anyway so when you have that sort of thing screwing up the chronological progression of the thead, it makes it easy to error as you did.

Thats ok though, alot of people simply reply to a thread without reading it all first. It is the internet anyway....:lol:


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

*Daewoo USAS-12 automatic shotgun*


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## WoW (Oct 26, 2010)

swampbuck said:


> *Daewoo USAS-12 automatic shotgun*


 



Set that puppy up on a bipod on the bed and just let them crash the door. Yikes.... that would clear a hallway in a helluva hurry now wouldn't it?

Sadly, it is probably too heavy for some of the readers here to manage effectively.


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## swampbuck (Dec 23, 2004)

The picture doesnt do it justice. Its a monster. Its also classified as a class 3 destructive device.

They didnt make many (before they were basically banned), but there are a few out there, I think it was 700. I had the opportunity to fondle semi auto one a few years ago.:yikes:

I dont think you would ever have to pull the trigger... Just the sight of it is plenty especially with a drum mag

http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/skor/usas-12-e.html


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## det07 (Mar 26, 2006)

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

These guys tested bird and buck against over penetration through drywall. Very good read! A lot of myths out there about shotguns for home protection. Keep it simple. The less tactical crap on your gun the more likely it will function properly when you need it the most.


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## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

History

The history of the USAS-12 dates from the 1980s vintage designs of Maxwell Atchisson. In about 1989, Gilbert Equipment Co. (USA) decided to bring up the selective fired weapon, broadly based on principles, employed in Atchisson shotguns. The design of the new weapon was produced by John Trevor Jr. Since Gilbert Equipment Co. had no manufacturing capabilities, it started to look for possible manufacturers. It turned out that the only maker that agreed to produce this weapon was the South Korean company Daewoo Precision Industries, a part of the high-tech Daewoo conglomerate. Daewoo engineers adapted the new weapon to their manufacturing techniques, and mass production commenced in the early 1990s. This gun sold well to military and security forces of several (unspecified) countries in Asia, and more than 30,000 of USAS-12 shotguns were made by mid-1990s.

During the same timeframe, Gilbert Equipment Co. tried to bring semi-automatic version of USAS-12 to the U.S. market, but the BATF promptly classified this weapon as "having no sporting purpose", so it became a "destructive device" under the U.S. National Firearms Act of 1934. This greatly restricted its civilian use. During the late 1990s, RAMO Defence Co. began to assemble USAS-12 shotguns from Korean and U.S.-made parts for sale on domestic market, but sales of this weapon were limited to government agencies only. Today, this gun is still being manufactured by S&T Daewoo in Korea for Military and Law Enforcement sales only.

Recently, a US firearms manufacturer, Ameetec Arms LLC of Scottsdale, Arizona, has started the manufacture of a USAS-12 semi-automatic clone, called the WM-12; it mainly differs from the USAS-12 by the lack of fixed sights and carrying handle, replaced by a Picatinny Rail. The manufacturer states that the WM-12 is not a Destructive Device, and is thus readily available to civilians.[1] As of January 2008, however, the WM-12 was no longer to be found on Ameetec Arms online catalogs due to the fact that it was discontinued after its initial semi-production run. Only a few WM-12s were actually built using USAS-12 Demilled shotguns

Manufacturer Daewoo Precision Industries, RAMO Defense Co., Ameetec Arms LLC
Variants Semi-automatic only for civilian commercial sales; select-fire for military and police
Specifications
Weight 5.45 kg less magazine. 6.2 kg (with 10-round magazine)
Length 960 mm
Barrel length 460 mm
Caliber 12-gauge
Rate of fire 360 rounds per minute
Muzzle velocity 400 m/s (1,300 ft/s)
Effective range 30-40 m
Maximum range 200 m
Feed system 10-round detachable box magazine or 20-round drum magazine
Sights Iron sights


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