# Be careful of what you shoot at



## Scadsobees (Sep 21, 2006)

https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/10/bald-eagle-dies-after-hunter-mistakes-it-for-goose.html

oops. Did he have his eagle decoys out?

Seriously...how difficult is it to make a mistake like this?


----------



## magnum lure (Dec 8, 2002)

They both need their licenses revoked until they can identify what they are shooting at! 
If your not sure what you are shooting at, don't pull the trigger!!


----------



## AaronJohn (Oct 18, 2015)

I need a lot more details to this very brief article to even start to comprehend what happened here.....

is it just me or is the article kind of scattered in regards to details and quotes. 

but still screw that guy


----------



## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

8:40 am, good light. I'm not believing an eagle was mistaken for a goose.
"Hey John, I bet you can't hit that eagle from here."
"Probably not, that's a long shot."
"Oh ship !!"
$5,000 fine for the shooter, loss of all licenses for 3 yrs. and 8 Saturdays (for both)working at a local DNR campground and I am good.

L & O


----------



## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Make it hurt. There's no need for idiots like that to be afield.


----------



## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

There was a story about a couple of guys shooting trumpeter swans up near the keweenaw. Other hunters called the CO and they confessed. Not sure which is worse here. White swans are sort of the same family group but dont look even close to a goose color.


----------



## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Guy smoked a swan or two at Fennville a couple years ago. That didn't end well.

Don't know what's worse, the guys that shoot at every duck and can't hit crap, or the guys who shoot at everything but ducks and hit them.


----------



## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

My money is on the guy shooting it because it was circling his decoy spread. Ducks won't decoy/land with a hawk or eagle circling overhead.

The carcass had at least 6 pellets in it, so it wasn't far from the shooter when he pulled the trigger.

An eagle looks nothing like a goose. The wing beat patterns and glide profile of an eagle look nothing like a goose. The airspeed of an eagle (flying or level glide) is nothing like a goose. This guy knew he wasn't shooting at a goose.


----------



## sullyxlh (Oct 28, 2004)

Scadsobees said:


> ..Seriously...how difficult is it to make a mistake like this?


100% avoidable

Always ID your target can't ID it don't shoot, it doesn't require a degree to know that.


----------



## eye-sore (Jan 7, 2012)

Reminds me of a south oark


----------



## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Well, it could have been coming right for him!


----------



## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

"An eagle looks nothing like a goose. The wing beat patterns and glide profile of an eagle look nothing like a goose. The airspeed of an eagle (flying or level glide) is nothing like a goose. This guy knew he wasn't shooting at a goose."

Saw a guy across a pond from me make a heck of a snap shot after missing wood ducks all morning. Too bad it was a belted kingfisher. Which looks nothing like a wood duck. But he caught it out of the corner of his eye and smoked it. They don't look, sound, or fly like a duck but...


----------



## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

DNR press release below. As far as I’m concerned these guys knew what they were doing and should do time, pay a hefty fine, lose their gear, guns and boat or, are totally irresponsible and a danger to themselves and others and should do time, pay a hefty fine, lose their gear, guns and boat. 

A 2-year-old female eagle was shot by waterfowl hunters Saturday in Manistee, Michigan. Conservation Officers Steve Converse and Joseph Myers found the eagle after it had been shot and transported it to Wings of Wonder, a raptor education, rehabilitation and research facility in Leelanau County. Staff there evaluated the eagle, determined it would not be able to survive surgery, and euthanized it Monday afternoon.

“The pellets caused multiple fractures in both of her wings, some of which had completely shattered some of the bones,” said Rebecca Lessard, Wings of Wonder executive director. “There was just too much damage; she was not a surgical candidate.”

Local fishing guides witnessed the incident. The two men, ages 53 and 24, both from New Boston, located southwest of Detroit, shot the eagle in a wooded area near the Bear Creek access site on the Manistee River in Brown Township. The guides immediately reported the incident to the DNR Report All Poaching hotline around 8:40 a.m. Saturday.

“I commend the tipsters who reported this crime immediately,” said Chief Gary Hagler, DNR Law Enforcement Division. “They did the right thing.” 

The two guides said that they saw the eagle flying, heard a gunshot and then saw the eagle fall from the sky. The guides reported seeing the two men who shot the eagle, about 100 yards away, picking up decoys from the ground. One of the guides approached one of the suspects and was able to get his identification. The suspect reportedly said they knew they had “messed up.”

Converse received the call from the RAP dispatcher and requested assistance from Myers and the Manistee County Sheriff’s Office. Myers and sheriff’s deputies were the first to arrive at the access site and were able to contact the two suspects as they were attempting to leave.

Converse and Myers obtained full confessions from the men. 

“They said they saw the bird coming across the sun and thought it was a goose,” Converse said. “After they shot it, they realized it wasn’t a goose. When they walked away, they knew it was still alive but claimed they had no phone service so they couldn’t call to report the eagle.”

One of the river guides escorted Converse and Myers about 1 1/2 miles downriver from the access site to where the guides believed the eagle went down. The officers hiked about 150 yards up a hill, where they found the eagle crawling on the ground just east of the intersection of Kettner and River roads. One of the sheriff’s deputies provided a dog crate to transport the eagle to Wings of Wonder.

The DNR will submit its report to the Manistee County prosecutor’s office to determine if charges will be authorized.


----------



## Wallywarrior (Apr 1, 2016)

This should be a fine in line with shooting any other bird out of season. No need to go crazy w this. Unless they can prove it was not a mistake, I will side w the the hunters. There are plenty of bald eagles around now. Between them and Canada geese I would say they are doing better than any other birds out there. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Wallywarrior said:


> This should be a fine in line with shooting any other bird out of season. No need to go crazy w this. Unless they can prove it was not a mistake, I will side w the the hunters. There are plenty of bald eagles around now. Between them and Canada geese I would say they are doing better than any other birds out there.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Serious post ?

L & O


----------



## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Pick up an eagle or hawk feather and unless you're a native and the Fed will bust your ass hard. This is way worse than that.


----------



## Wallywarrior (Apr 1, 2016)

Liver and Onions said:


> Serious post ?
> 
> L & O


Yes. I guess what I’m saying is they should not be special because the are bald eagles. If they made a mistake, they should be fined in a way that they will learn from it and continue to hunt, hopefully legally. We are all quick to jump in and say we should take their license, but that’s overdoing it for a mistake. I’m over/down in Iowa and there are so many bald eagles and and hawks around that the pheasant and small game stand little chance. Not saying they shouldn’t be around because they should, but we control other predators, why do these birds get total protection. They are really just coyotes in the sky. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AaronJohn (Oct 18, 2015)

Liver and Onions said:


> Serious post ?
> 
> L & O


Lmao no way. 

Our sport is fooling fowl. Not shooting at **** flying.


----------



## Wallywarrior (Apr 1, 2016)

AaronJohn said:


> Lmao no way.
> 
> Our sport is fooling fowl. Not shooting at **** flying.


I get it. How long have you been at it. Maybe this was their first hunt. I’m sure things were different for you year one. 

For all I know it was on purpose and then I’m all for throwing the book at them. Just saying it’s possible that it was an mistake, possibly ill informed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Wallywarrior (Apr 1, 2016)

Wallywarrior said:


> I get it. How long have you been at it. Maybe this was their first hunt. I’m sure things were different for you year one.
> 
> For all I know it was on purpose and then I’m all for throwing the book at them. Just saying it’s possible that it was an mistake, possibly ill informed.
> 
> ...





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Wallywarrior (Apr 1, 2016)

Scadsobees said:


> Intentions.


Exactly. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Scadsobees (Sep 21, 2006)

AaronJohn said:


> What if he already shot his two hens?
> 
> he should have to be able to identify his next green head right?
> 
> If he shoots eagles he clearly had no respect for the sport we ALL cherish.


I'm not defending this person(s). What they did was bad. Eagle, hawk, osprey, owl, it's illegal. 

But I do know that I'm not qualified, and at this point nobody here has all the facts to judge why it happened. If it's determined that it was intentional, sentence accordingly (which would be throwing the book). If it was a stupid mistake, sentence accordingly.

But it's not the internet if we're not knee-jerking. I sure love what the internet does to people.


----------



## Wallywarrior (Apr 1, 2016)

TNL said:


> What does "we screwed up'" mean to you? Of course, the two witnesses probably don't mean much to you either. "Maybe that was after the animal". What does that even mean? My post was in reference to the OP. You brought the whole raptor thing in. It really doesn't pertain to the original subject matter. But whatever.
> 
> Try to have an intelligent discourse without the insults.


Could mean they shot it thinking it was duck/goose, the bird hit the the ground and they found that it was not. “We screwed up”. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Wallywarrior (Apr 1, 2016)

AaronJohn said:


> What if he already shot his two hens?
> 
> he should have to be able to identify his next green head right?
> 
> If he shoots eagles he clearly had no respect for the sport we ALL cherish.


Ha, now you’re throwing in “what ifs” but can’t see it the other way. Classic. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

Is there first degree eagle murder, second degree eagle murder, voluntary eagleslaughter, in-voluntary eagleslaughter, negligent eaglecide, assault with intent to do great eaglely harm?


----------



## FISHMANMARK (Jun 11, 2007)

AaronJohn said:


> What if he already shot his two hens?
> 
> he should have to be able to identify his next green head right?
> 
> If he shoots eagles he clearly had no respect for the sport we ALL cherish.


They thought it was a goose. 

I could see staring straight into the sun, and see a gliding *something* and think it was a goose.

I can't see shooting at it, but I can sorta believe they may have thought it was a goose.


----------



## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Officer Converse is a _*great*_ CO, and it does not surprise me in the least that he was able to get the Offenders to confess. He has .......powers of persuasion. He also saved a suicidal woman who was about to jump from the Belle Isle Bridge (in Detroit), last year. He makes the Great Outdoors of Michigan better for everyone who enjoys it legally. 

And Bald Eagles are not just "another bird." They are our National Bird, and a symbol of American freedom. They are, and deserve to be protected. They are not overly abundant, although there are many times more than there were when I grew up, in the 1960's and 1970's. It is good to see their population growing. 

I will agree that the Hunters may not have had cell reception, because it is real sketchy on that river, and most rivers. However, they made a "mistake," and KNEW they had made it, and still did nothing to be accountable for their actions. They deserve to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.


----------



## Fishndude (Feb 22, 2003)

Officer Converse is a _*great*_ CO, and it does not surprise me in the least that he was able to get the Offenders to confess. He has .......powers of persuasion. He also saved a suicidal woman who was about to jump from the Belle Isle Bridge (in Detroit), last year. He makes the Great Outdoors of Michigan better for everyone who enjoys it legally. 

And Bald Eagles are not just "another bird." They are our National Bird, and a symbol of American freedom. They are, and deserve to be protected. They are not overly abundant, although there are many times more than there were when I grew up, in the 1960's and 1970's. It is good to see their population growing. 

I will agree that the Hunters may not have had cell reception, because it is real sketchy on that river, and most rivers. However, they made a "mistake," and KNEW they had made it, and still did nothing to be accountable for their actions. They deserve to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.


----------



## AaronJohn (Oct 18, 2015)

Wallywarrior said:


> Ha, now you’re throwing in “what ifs” but can’t see it the other way. Classic.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To me there is no other way. 

I’m saying if you can’t identify ducks. Learn. Otherwise don’t hunt until you can, or have someone hold your hand for the time being. 

The dude prolly rides a horse with both legs off the same side.


----------



## BumpRacerX (Dec 31, 2009)

Almost happened once to myself and two other experienced waterfowlers. Younger bird came in right on the tail feathers of two ducks from behind us. Literally hit one of the deeks before realizing it wasn't real and flying off. To this day, none of us are sure how we managed to not shoot the Eagle (not to mention the ducks). No one shot at anything.

It posed an interesting question though:
Say you did accidentally shoot one, do you turn yourself in? Or just collect your gear and get the hell out of dodge? The fines and penalties are HEFTY.

https://ktla.com/2019/07/27/bald-eagle-shot-and-killed-in-pennsylvania/

What if it's a different non-target bird? Looks like last year a guy confessed to a couple blue herons that were intentionally shot. $700 in fines.

https://wsbt.com/news/regional/mattawan-man-fined-more-than-700-after-shooting-two-great-blue-herons


----------



## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

Who here has passed on a shot because you weren't sure? All of us? I've passed on ducks because I couldn't be sure if it was a hen mallard or not until it was too late. Passed on god knows how many duck because they were on the edge of range and I thought they'd come around closer the second time. Passed on low grouse and woodcock shots because I wasn't 100% about where the other hunters were. Passing on a shot is what responsible, law abiding, ethical hunters do. Hell, I'll pass on making a cast at a dock if I don't think I can get the lure in there without hanging up on a boat or mooring cover. It's called sportsmanship and it's what sets us apart from the poachers, game hogs, assorted dirt bags and scum buckets. Do I think I'm better than these guys? No. I _know_ I'm better than them. And so are all of you reading this.

These scumbags will get their due process and in the eyes of the law they're innocent until proven guilty. But this isn't the judicial system and we aren't hampered by that restriction. These guys are worthless as hunters and worthless as human beings (tried to hide their misdeed). Throw the book at them and turn your back on anyone who would defend them. They didn't accidentally shoot a bird. They intentionally shot a bird having no idea what it was and not caring. Pure scum.


----------



## Wallywarrior (Apr 1, 2016)

kzoofisher said:


> Who here has passed on a shot because you weren't sure? All of us? I've passed on ducks because I couldn't be sure if it was a hen mallard or not until it was too late. Passed on god knows how many duck because they were on the edge of range and I thought they'd come around closer the second time. Passed on low grouse and woodcock shots because I wasn't 100% about where the other hunters were. Passing on a shot is what responsible, law abiding, ethical hunters do. Hell, I'll pass on making a cast at a dock if I don't think I can get the lure in there without hanging up on a boat or mooring cover. It's called sportsmanship and it's what sets us apart from the poachers, game hogs, assorted dirt bags and scum buckets. Do I think I'm better than these guys? No. I _know_ I'm better than them. And so are all of you reading this.
> 
> These scumbags will get their due process and in the eyes of the law they're innocent until proven guilty. But this isn't the judicial system and we aren't hampered by that restriction. These guys are worthless as hunters and worthless as human beings (tried to hide their misdeed). Throw the book at them and turn your back on anyone who would defend them. They didn't accidentally shoot a bird. They intentionally shot a bird having no idea what it was and not caring. Pure scum.


Did it say they tried to hide anything? All I read was that they were packing up when the guide approached. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ricky Missum (Jan 10, 2003)

They were trying to get out of Dodge before the Marshall showed up!!


----------



## Divers Down (Mar 31, 2008)

Ya it’s wrong and tarded and they’ll get their day in court big but he was duck hunting when he did it so we don’t need to give peta and antis more ammo by blabbing about


----------



## Wallywarrior (Apr 1, 2016)

Ricky Missum said:


> They were trying to get out of Dodge before the Marshall showed up!!


Where did it say that? It said they were picking things up when the guide boat approached them. Possible they were not wanting to leave their guns and belongings sitting on the bank while they went to contact authorities? Someone right on this thread posted that cell reception is very poor where they were at. I would not leave my stuff (guns) lay if I were going to leave and make a call. 

If I were to be caught in the act of doing something I was trying to hide, my only comment would be “contact my lawyer”. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kzoofisher (Mar 6, 2011)

Wallywarrior said:


> Did it say they tried to hide anything? All I read was that they were packing up when the guide approached.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Did they ask if the fishermen had cell service? Did they make an effort to call in at the first opportunity and report their *mistake*? Did the make an effort to save the bird? Stop coming up with far fetched excuses for them.


----------



## ajkulish (Nov 16, 2013)

Nothing like a 4 page argument between nobody who was present for/involved in the events.


----------



## Wallywarrior (Apr 1, 2016)

Far fetched? I literally wrote what I read in the article. You are the one making assumptions. I just believe they should have their day and innocent until proven guilty. Internet lawyers and judges such as you are one of the great problems the internet/social media has created. 

Said my piece plenty now. I’m out. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## eye-sore (Jan 7, 2012)

People that get so pissed about stuff need more going on in their own lives.these guys fricked up. Let the proper people handle it.at the end of the day none of your opinions matter to anyone but yourself


----------



## lefty421 (Dec 7, 2012)

Damn. I mean I can understand the occasional grebe or cormorant getting smoked by mistake, but a bald $%^#^ eagle! Holy Hell. Honest mistake or not, those guys probably should take a break from duck hunting for while.


----------



## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Too late, the 870 is gone


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

Wallywarrior said:


> You’re out there with a pray and spray shotgun fully equipped with “call of duty” optics package and taking the “holier than thou” route? Even if legal you have to be wounding and losing more feathered game than you’re finding. You say you don’t have another gun, trade that thing in for something purpose built and still have money left over.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hey, I don't have time to engage with a troll wally, so this is my reply to you. I'm not being "holier than thou," I was simply addressing the questions from others because I appreciate that this is an unusual weapon of choice and I wanted to show that I have done the research and range work required to make my previous hunting time as successful as possible. If I somehow offended you, perhaps with my proper English and lack of name-calling, I apologize. I'm only here for civil discourse and I thought it would be humorous that I've managed to easily identify raptors from waterfowl as a noob and I was pointing out my extra "noobiness" by posting that pic. 

Your point of substance - being less accurate - is valid. I've attempted to correct for it as much as I can currently afford to by using black cloud ammo (about 60% more costly than the basic) which is supposed to be packed in a way that somewhat compensates for barrels like mine.

Lastly, why do you presume to tell me that I need to sell my gun? I love my gun. It's a home defense shotgun that I'm choosing to multipurpose. Do some research - it patterns VERY accurately. Also, this gun was a gift from my woman so that's yet another reason that I'm not ever trading it in. Eventually, if I decide that bird hunting is a priority in my life, I'm sure that I'll equip myself with a traditional weapon for said sporting activity.

Take your trolling elsewhere, dude. Some of us are here to learn, enjoy, and celebrate the outdoorsman life, not just to try to knock others and be contrarian.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

Hey thanks for looking for me. I appreciate it. I stopped into my local shop and the best deal they had was a $250, 100 lb (slight exaggeration) side by side that looked like it was used in the civil war.


DecoySlayer said:


> Too late, the 870 is gone


Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## eye-sore (Jan 7, 2012)

Duck dynasty was the worst thing to happen to waterfowl hunting.now everybody thinks they can hunt


----------



## Wallywarrior (Apr 1, 2016)

Macs13 said:


> Hey, I don't have time to engage with a troll wally, so this is my reply to you. I'm not being "holier than thou," I was simply addressing the questions from others because I appreciate that this is an unusual weapon of choice and I wanted to show that I have done the research and range work required to make my previous hunting time as successful as possible. If I somehow offended you, perhaps with my proper English and lack of name-calling, I apologize. I'm only here for civil discourse and I thought it would be humorous that I've managed to easily identify raptors from waterfowl as a noob and I was pointing out my extra "noobiness" by posting that pic.
> 
> Your point of substance - being less accurate - is valid. I've attempted to correct for it as much as I can currently afford to by using black cloud ammo (about 60% more costly than the basic) which is supposed to be packed in a way that somewhat compensates for barrels like mine.
> 
> ...



Do you have more home invasions than hunting needs? Maybe buy the one designed for the thing you do most and multipurpose that first? You’ve been hunting at least once this year for sure, how many home invasions?

The “holier than thou” reference comes from you bringing someone else down on their ethics while you’re out potentially wounding critters yourself. Yeah you’re not shooting raptors, but wounding ducks and geese only to have them fly away and die later can’t be to much better?

Then you go on to say that you can’t afford a hunting shotgun, but shoot 60% more costly ammo. Come on. You can buy a hunting shotgun for the price of a case of black cloud. I picked up a new Mossberg 500 12 gauge on clearance for 200 bucks about three weeks ago. Ive got a single shot 12 that I paid less than 100 dollars for and would bet it is much more effective in the duck blind. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Wallywarrior (Apr 1, 2016)

eye-sore said:


> Duck dynasty was the worst thing to happen to waterfowl hunting.now everybody thinks they can hunt


Hunting tv in general is the worst thing to happen to hunting and I agree duck dynasty hurt waterfowling in particular. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

You can get a new 12 gauge Maverick or Pardner pump for about $200. If you don't like it, you can flip it for $150 if you don't beat it up. I kill a ton of birds with a $130 Mossberg pump 20 and a factory choke and cheap steel.


----------



## FISHMANMARK (Jun 11, 2007)

We had an eagle hanging around on Saturday... it kept trying to snatch our floating birds. We determined it is impossible to confuse an eagle for a goose. If you're blind drunk, maybe.

I might be wrong, but I think the KSG, scope and pink beats might be a troll. LOL


----------



## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

I will say this, if the guy next to me pulls out that set up at Fennville, I'll pull my decoys and leave. This coming from a guy that has shot geese at Fennville with both Winchester model 12's and 1897's in 16 gauge and has a buddy that occasionally rocks a black powder coach gun that blows 15' of smoke when he shoots and we have to tell him if he hit anything.

Granted we also tend to kill most of what we shoot at, except when hunting with or next to people from this site.


----------



## Wallywarrior (Apr 1, 2016)

FISHMANMARK said:


> I might be wrong, but I think the KSG, scope and pink beats might be a troll. LOL


I hope so. Looks like a Russian YouTube video. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

Well I haven't hit anything yet. I'm not a good shot yet. If I hit it and don't kill it, I'll be sure to let you know. 

Eye-sore, I've never watched a hunting show nor have I watched soap operas dressed up as hunting shows such as DD. Is your statement regarding hunting shows intended to say that if you are new to the sport (and don't know people that hunt to teach you) that you shouldn't be allowed to go out and learn? Also, I don't "think I know everything about hunting" and if you've read ANY of my posts, you understand that. On this subject matter, I'm very clear that I'm Jon Snow - I know nothing. As an example to your point, I used to sell Big Dog motorcycles and often Harley guys would whinge about Paul and Jr ruining motorcycle culture by getting new bikers on cooler bikes than they themselves could afford. The comedy is that they (and you) missed the fact that their tribe (hunter, biker, etc) is growing and that is important.

Intentionally shooting a raptor is not equivalent to winging a duck, wally. Sorry. 

I'm 100% sure that those acting like a $1000 bullpup isn't a viable hunting gun so I MUST trade it in for a $200 gun have not, as I suggested, read some of the published articles and watched vids of good shooters patterning and hunting with the KSG. Am I wrong?

And to Mark suggesting I'm trolling, absolutely not. I never troll. Are you reading my posts? I haven't argued with anybody. You guys know worlds more about this sport than I do - if you want to argue football, I'll step all over most guys, but this is hunting - and I think I've been entirely deferential to the substantive points. I've only tried to say "this is why I made this specific choice," while I have been clear that I understand it may not be the conventional choice. 

To the fella that would up and leave if I arrived, I would never do that to you or anybody else. I don't impose or encroach on other sportsmen whether I'm hunting, fishing, mushrooming, etc. I'm sorry that you feel that way, but rest assured that I personally will never put you in that situation. 

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## FISHMANMARK (Jun 11, 2007)

Macs13 said:


> And to Mark suggesting I'm trolling, absolutely not. I never troll.



OK... I was giving you props for setting up the photo. Kinda like Craig hunting over 2 liter bottles. Oh wait...


----------



## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

The gun is cool and special yes, I get that. But you're not doing a favor trying to learn with it. Don't trade it, never trade a gun. But buy more. Lots more.

Learn the basics with something that really improves your chances, and then when you've got a few slam dunk hole in the wall hunts you can bank on, break out the special gun / decoy / 83 year old father in law etc.

You're talking to a guy who loves special guns. I just need a 28 now to have every legal gauge available and I try to hunt each one at least once a year.










And there's a lot of reasons I've packed up and left after watching the people around me set up and hunt. Usually within 20 minutes I can tell I'm not going to kill anything with them as neighbors and watching the Lions or cutting firewood is a better use of time.


----------



## Wallywarrior (Apr 1, 2016)

Macs13 said:


> Well I haven't hit anything yet.
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Hard to believe. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## lefty421 (Dec 7, 2012)

You should go take that thing to the skeet/trap range for some practice. The guys there will be full of tips and suggestions for you.


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

Far Beyond Driven said:


> The gun is cool and special yes, I get that. But you're not doing a favor trying to learn with it. Don't trade it, never trade a gun. But buy more. Lots more.
> 
> Learn the basics with something that really improves your chances, and then when you've got a few slam dunk hole in the wall hunts you can bank on, break out the special gun / decoy / 83 year old father in law etc.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice, sir. I am currently trying to do exactly that (I've got a collection of dead Fords up for trade right now  - looking for guns and crossbow), but it was fun going out and exploring these public wetlands that I've never been to in the meantime. I've got my maximum allowance of salmon in the freezer now, so it's better to be out in the woods and grasslands than not. Maybe when I've got a more appropriate setup and more range time, I'll know where and when to go. 

Until then, I'll be out there with the KSG trying to get lucky and I'll stay out of your guys' way. Cheers.









Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

I have been trading guns, to buy others for years. I call it recycling. Now, I am downsizing my numbers. There comes a time when I just no longer need them. I just no longer need them. Bought a few new pieces, to replace older ones, to avoid failures. Did everything with the idea of recoil reduction.


----------



## eye-sore (Jan 7, 2012)

If you really want to learn take the advice and get a real shotgun and kill them. Single shots go for about 75 bucks used. And yes crippling ducks with inadequate equip is bs


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

eye-sore said:


> If you really want to learn take the advice and get a real shotgun and kill them. Single shots go for about 75 bucks used. And yes crippling ducks with inadequate equip is bs


I'll say for the 3rd time in this thread - do some research. There's no reason for you to think that it's inadequate just because it's not what you're used to. The gun shoots very well. 

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

eye-sore said:


> If you really want to learn take the advice and get a real shotgun and kill them. Single shots go for about 75 bucks used. And yes crippling ducks with inadequate equip is bs


I'll say for the 3rd time in this thread - do some research. There's no reason for you to think that it's inadequate just because it's not what you're used to. The gun shoots very well. It will kill if I shoot it straight. 

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

Not sure why it posted twice. Apparently MS wanted to second my point.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Macs13 said:


> Not sure why it posted twice. Apparently MS wanted to second my point.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


The 2 posts are not identical. It was done at your end. You can delete one if you want then delete post # 101.

L & O


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

Liver and Onions said:


> The 2 posts are not identical. It was done at your end. You can delete one if you want then delete post # 101.
> 
> L & O


How do you delete a post?

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## Wallywarrior (Apr 1, 2016)

Macs13 said:


> I'll say for the 3rd time in this thread - do some research. There's no reason for you to think that it's inadequate just because it's not what you're used to. The gun shoots very well. It will kill if I shoot it straight.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


Based on this thread in the Kel-Tec owners group, it seems the consensus is that it is a bad idea to use one for bird hunting. 

https://www.thektog.org/threads/bird-hunting.250364/

I only read a few links and none seem to be from independent organizations. To me it looks like a few guys think it would be “cool” to wingshoot with one, but none actually think it is wise or say it’s a great gun for the application. Maybe I’m missing something. I googled “is Kel-Tec ksg good for ducks”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## eye-sore (Jan 7, 2012)

Have fun dude. Learn how to shoot before you hunt. Im out on this stupidity


----------



## Liver and Onions (Nov 24, 2000)

Macs13 said:


> How do you delete a post?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


After making a post you are given something like 15 minutes to edit or delete that post. The info is below the post. Take a look and find after your next post so you will know in the future. After that short window of opportunity, that info goes away and you can no longer change the message. A mod can if they want, but not us.

L & O


----------



## MIfishslayer91 (Dec 24, 2013)

Nobody is attacking you for using that gun, just trying to encourage you not to. You’re not doing anyone a favor by using it. You’ve said it yourself “I still haven’t hit anything with it yet”. Just out there purposely educating birds, pushing em out of the area making it harder on other hunters, while wasting your money on expensive ammo that could be used for a cheap pump. Just gona keep tryin til you start clipping em, and send em sailing? Plus, not only is it dangerous to your hunting partners using such a short barrel swing shooting birds, it’s got to be hell on their ears. I know I wouldn’t want to be sitting 2’ from someone blasting 3” mag steel shells out of a 18” barrel. You can get a brand new Mossberg Maverick 88 for $188 at Walmart any day of the week. Could scrap one of those fords and actually be killing ducks this week. I grabbed one of those cheap guns last year when I was in a pinch as my stoeger m3 kept jamming. Rattle canned it camo and it’s been my go to killing machine ever since. Although I may take the a300 out jump shooting in an hour or so.


----------



## Tagz (Sep 22, 2005)

HillbillyDeluxe said:


> Does anyone know if there's a logical explanation for this rule? Seems a bit arbitrary. Pretty sure the birds aren't coming back for their lost feathers.


Part of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, its illegal to possess feathers or other parts of Native North American birds without a permit. Exceptions do exist for feathers of legally-hunted waterfowl or other migratory gamebirds, and for the use of feathers by Native Americans. Also me being a licensed falconer I keep the feathers of my birds when they molt in case I need to use them in the future to repair (imping) a damaged feather. These laws exist because in the past many birds were being killed off to use the feathers for decorative purposes like hats. Personally I dont know anyone who has been busted for having say a feather from a blue jay. Even though it is technically illegal. But it doesnt take long to search the internet and see a market for imitation feathers out there. Which means if allowed people would be selling the real things like crazy. By making it illegal to possess, regardless of how it was obtained you make it much easier to enforce the law. And you take away hopefully the monetary value of something that one might otherwise take illegally for a profit.


----------



## Fishfighter (Dec 20, 2009)

Ive gotta ask how do you wingshoot with a scope on it? Seems hard to judge leads.


----------



## waterwolf90 (Jan 7, 2013)

I've tried wingshooting with a red dot scope set forward on the receiver and even that was awkward. A regular scope must be nearly impossible. Dude please, don't learn to shoot on live game. Try some clays and set up some big paper targets and pattern at various ranges. If it works, cool, go for it. Like the gun, been wanting one.


----------



## waterwolf90 (Jan 7, 2013)

I suggest taking the scope off the gun. Even with slugs/ smoothbore/18'' barrel probably has about 50-70 yd effective hunting range. All the duck/turkey shots inside 50.
More importantly, shooting heavy duck/turkey loads and slugs though a scoped bullpup sounds like a sure way to get scope-eyed. Saw a guy get knocked out cold once. I'd put some flip up iron sights or maybe a small red dot.


----------



## waterwolf90 (Jan 7, 2013)

I've got to correct myself,...ducks/turkey shots inside 40, better yet 30. Only if proven to pattern so beforehand with that particular gun.( The bullpup).


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

waterwolf90 said:


> I suggest taking the scope off the gun. Even with slugs/ smoothbore/18'' barrel probably has about 50-70 yd effective hunting range. All the duck/turkey shots inside 50.
> More importantly, shooting heavy duck/turkey loads and slugs though a scoped bullpup sounds like a sure way to get scope-eyed. Saw a guy get knocked out cold once. I'd put some flip up iron sights or maybe a small red dot.


Thanks for the constructive advice. I guess I should probably invest in binocs instead of relying on the scope. As for the ole black eye, I'm not looking through the scope while shooting and also, it doesn't seem to kick nearly as much as I expected. I do really like the red dot, though. It just gives a little something extra. Lastly, if I've got my football measurements correct, I'm not planning on shooting much outside of 15 yards at this point. I do share the concerns of other sportsmen on this thread about winging the duck. I know every shot isn't a kill shot, but it's better to increase my odds. 

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Your best bet, long term, get a shotgun that is made for wing shooting, get some lessons, and PRACTICE


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

DecoySlayer said:


> Your best bet, long term, get a shotgun that is made for wing shooting, get some lessons, and PRACTICE


Long-term, that's exactly the plan (assuming that waterfowl is something that I plan to really get into going forward). Just dipping my toes in the water right now. 

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Macs13 said:


> Long-term, that's exactly the plan (assuming that waterfowl is something that I plan to really get into going forward). Just dipping my toes in the water right now.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app



Well, good luck. I will say one thing, it will be hard to determine, if you like it or not, when you are going at the process in the way that you are. 

You need to hook up with some guys around there, that know what they are doing, who can loan you a proper shotgun, and help you out a bit. 

I am NOT trying to "slam you", just trying to help.


----------



## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

DecoySlayer said:


> Well, good luck. I will say one thing, it will be hard to determine, if you like it or not, when you are going at the process in the way that you are.
> 
> You need to hook up with some guys around there, that know what they are doing, who can loan you a proper shotgun, and help you out a bit.
> 
> I am NOT trying to "slam you", just trying to help.


Lol. It's all good. I don't know hunters. I don't know guys that shoot. Also, I don't ever participate in outdoors activities to be part of a group. I much prefer fishing, hiking, hunting, golfing, etc by myself. I'm a determined fellow, though. If I want to get good at this sport, it won't take too long. 

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Well good luck.


----------



## Tavor (Sep 10, 2011)

Wallywarrior said:


> be


----------



## Far Beyond Driven (Jan 23, 2006)

I killed my first duck 31 years ago and I'm still getting better at it each year. Mostly as I've had the chance to hunt with some guys that have forgotten more about duck hunting than I know, and missed more birds than I've killed.

And they don't miss much.

And doing lots of internet research at the managed areas then just hunting them hard.

My daughter is 16 and has seen more birds killed in her five seasons than I saw in my first two decades hunting. She's been on two hunts this year, shot at three birds, and killed all of them.

How much farther ahead I could be had I had someone to share their experience with me instead of having to pick it up piecemeal.


----------

