# Lab Breeder Suggestions



## mikecatt13 (Dec 16, 2014)

My parents are getting another dog and have always owned goldens but mom wans to surprise him with a hunting lab like he has always wanted so I told her I would help with the research. I have done some searching and the names Oldsquaw and Kingseed have come up a few times. 

Any other suggestions? (in Michigan or close to it is preferred but I will take all suggestions)

Anyone have dogs from these breeders? How are they both in the field and at home?

They are looking for a hunting dog that will also be a family dog and would prefer one of the labs with a big head.

Thanks guys!


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## CABELKINS2000 (Nov 8, 2011)

Contact Kathy at Piddle Creek Kennels and Yellow River Game Farms, located in Barronette, Wisconsin. You won't be disappointed. 
www.piddlecreekkennels.com


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

If you want a pointing lab, I've heard nothing but great things about Dale Swiderski (for both breeding and training), http://huntersrosekennel.homestead.com/. Dale's kennel is in Dundee. I got my pointing lab from Sauk River Labs out in Osakis, Minnesota, and have been very happy with my yellow male. It was a 13 hour drive, but David will ship dogs for around $400 (but that 13 hour drive was no big deal, and IMO was worth it to me not having to worry about my pup on a plane). 

If you don't care about pointing lab breeding, there are a few others that come to mind that I have heard great things about. Kingseed and Hunters Ridge come to mind. Craig Novotney (at the Huntsman in Dryden) also has great dogs, and is a great trainer. 

If you really want to get hands on in the process of selecting a breeder, considering joining the Central Michigan HRC (I see you're in SE Mich, and they operate around there) and just meet up with them for a Saturday training session and get to talking to the guys, watching their dogs and see for yourself what you like about each dog's breeding (chances are you'll like them all, as most of the good breeders around here offer excellent pups, but it will offer the ability to see dogs work first hand). I just joined at the recommendation of another guy on this forum. 

Take your time, and DO NOT let anybody rush this decision! You will likely have to put a deposit down and wait a bit for most good breeders, so patience is a virtue in this process. 

Best of luck! Waiting is the hardest part!


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## smelz like wet dog (Aug 12, 2006)

pm me interested. I have litter due first of march. can send pics.


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## countryboy17 (Nov 25, 2010)

I got my dog from Chris at Marsh Mutt Manor Labs in Indiana. Im very pleased with the dog so far and Chris seemed very knowledgeable and has a very nice kennel. It was a 7 hour drive from the thumb but worth it. I think the biggest thing is to pick a kennel that breeds hunting dogs not pets and you should get a good dog.


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

countryboy17 said:


> I think the biggest thing is to pick a kennel that breeds hunting dogs not pets and you should get a good dog.


I'll second that. I should have added this in my first comment. Your first focus is separating the lab breeders that do not focus on field dogs. There are plenty of them out there that breed for pets and/or show conformation. If you get a lab from any old lab breeder, you may end up with something closer to those swamp collies that you've had in the past (nothing against goldens, I grew up with them and love them, there is just very few breeders with field stock as compared to labs). 

You want a breeder that can either show you pedigrees of the sire and dam, or otherwise substantiate that their dogs have hunting genetics. Titles aren't everything, but they are proof that the dog has the genes to work in the way that hunters need them to work. You don't necessarily need a dog with both parents being 4 times champions, but IMO you want some titles at least in grandparents, and it's nice to see the parents to have qualified in hunt tests as well. It's just evidence that the genes are present, keeping in mind that dogs don't need titles to be EXCELLENT field quality, I've seen plenty of trained dogs that would without a doubt claim plenty of titles, just haven't been run in any tests--if the breeder has dogs like this, then you may be satisfied by simply watching the dogs work in person or maybe even in a video that the breeder can offer. 

For example, the yellow male pup I just bought in October had a sire with no titles (at least I wasn't aware of any), but the sire's parents had plenty, and so did the dam's, and my breeder showed me videos of the sire working and it was extremely impressive--i.e., there was proof the genes were there (see the videos of Sauk River's "Blaze" on the website).

As one last bit of advice, if you call some breeders that have come referred by some folks, and the breeder ends up not being great at returning phone calls or emails, don't be totally put off. Of course, you'll have to speak to them at some point, but just have some degree of patience. I noticed some of the best breeders aren't the best at the communication thing. Most of them have day jobs apart from breeding hunting dogs, and/or simply live on a farm and don't check emails or voice mail three times a day like many of us do. I wish it weren't this way, because I'm a questions guy, and I have found it irritating, but honestly I've dealt with some breeders who are fantastic people and excellent breeders, but just aren't great at phone calls or email. Try to put the principals aside and don't let it turn you away, especially if they're a name that came referred to you by several people and you otherwise have significant interest in the dogs. I think I can safely say that more hunting breeders are like this than not. They're not selling insurance or cars, and likely aren't sitting at "dog selling" office all day (at least you better hope they aren't.


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## N M Mechanical (Feb 7, 2008)

countryboy17 said:


> I got my dog from Chris at Marsh Mutt Manor Labs in Indiana. Im very pleased with the dog so far and Chris seemed very knowledgeable and has a very nice kennel. It was a 7 hour drive from the thumb but worth it. I think the biggest thing is to pick a kennel that breeds hunting dogs not pets and you should get a good dog.



Second Chris 
Also http://www.miretrievers.com/


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## Canvsbk (Jan 13, 2013)

There's Candelwood and then there's everyone else.


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## Socks (Jan 8, 2007)

Canvsbk said:


> There's Candelwood and then there's everyone else.


If you're referring to who I think you are; I'm pretty sure you have to be on a wait list, have some cash, and then hope she decides to sell one to you. I have heard good things and that name shows up a lot in pedigrees and that says something.


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## Canvsbk (Jan 13, 2013)

She's the best, has been for decades. A very nice lady that's forgot more about breeding labs than most will ever know. Doesn't mean you can't find a decent dog elsewhere too.


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## BIRD BARREL (Aug 14, 2010)

Kingseed is my preference if I wasn't a chessie guy . I have talked with owners quite often at hunt test very nice family ran kennel. Also very well blood line this litter wright now and received their grand hunting retrieve championship title this fall. My wife was to them at are fall test and if I am not mistaken. She said he Wright's a clause in his contract to the new owner .if they need a pro training for the basic retrieve . If they use his kennel it would be discounted rate since you purchased from him . 

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## jabelism (Oct 29, 2011)

I have a pup that I got from the president of the Central Michigan Hunting Retriever club and she is with Tim Doane from Kingseed Kennels for winter training in Alabama right now. They seem to be great people and my next pup would be from them. Take your time and do your research. There is alot of breeders out there with great bloodlines. Look for parents that are hunt test dogs with titles. That way it has been proven. Good Luck


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## GDLUCK (Dec 2, 2002)

Find labs that like to retrieve and you are good to go. health clearances are good to have. HT titles are over rated. HT Titles are more a reflection of the trainer than the dog. Most any lab that likes to retrieve acn HT title with a decent trainer. crawling pigs can get HT titles as long as they bring the duck back.


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## Socks (Jan 8, 2007)

GDLUCK said:


> Find labs that like to retrieve and you are good to go. health clearances are good to have. HT titles are over rated. HT Titles are more a reflection of the trainer than the dog. Most any lab that likes to retrieve acn HT title with a decent trainer. crawling pigs can get HT titles as long as they bring the duck back.


I disagree, but your entitled to your opinion.


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## DUCK LAB JAKE (Mar 6, 2004)

Yup, I strongly disagree


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

GDLUCK said:


> Find labs that like to retrieve and you are good to go. health clearances are good to have. HT titles are over rated. HT Titles are more a reflection of the trainer than the dog. Most any lab that likes to retrieve acn HT title with a decent trainer. crawling pigs can get HT titles as long as they bring the duck back.


I gotta disagree as well, mainly because I'm not sure how you go about finding labs that like to retrieve without seeking out hunting lines (which requires proof of certifications / passing tests or winning titles). Can a retriever from a conformation or pet breeder end up being an excellent retriever? Sure. My dad has a golden that retrievers like a machine for hours, and without a doubt would be great in the duck blind, but our friends have her litter mate and she can barely swim and has little interest in retrieving. I also own a french bulldog that points at bugs on the wall, laser pointers and squirrels--rock solid point too, tripod stance and everything. In sum, you need to know the dog's breeding has genes with a high working end in order to be sure enough that you'll end up with a dog that will work and retrieve. If you want that, it's not worth rolling the dice with a conformation / pet breeder.


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## GDLUCK (Dec 2, 2002)

Lamarsh said:


> I gotta disagree as well, mainly because I'm not sure how you go about finding labs that like to retrieve without seeking out hunting lines (which requires proof of certifications


The test is incredibly detailed and has to be performed precisely to get accurate results. Get a ball and throw it.

I'm sure you heard of Steve jobs? College dropout. He didn't pass any test that said he could be a CEO but he did alright for himself.

Then there's Charles Conway MBA from U of M. 

Initials don't prove everything.

To each their own but I wouldn't overlook regular dogs with health tests. Plenty of awesome hunters never saw a test.


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## michiganoutdoorsman (Dec 29, 2010)

My vote goes to Kingseed. Tim is a great guy and has some gorgeous dogs! Always willing to help if you have any questions as well. I have one from his Ely x Hannah litter last May, Knox is a great puppy!


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## black dog (Oct 29, 2008)

GDLUCK said:


> Find labs that like to retrieve and you are good to go. health clearances are good to have. HT titles are over rated. HT Titles are more a reflection of the trainer than the dog. Most any lab that likes to retrieve acn HT title with a decent trainer. crawling pigs can get HT titles as long as they bring the duck back.



I got to disagree with ya GDLUCK.


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## 2manyfish (Feb 17, 2003)

I would have to agree with gdlucky. Some of the best hunting dogs have been trained using his thought process. Throw a few tennis balls- Bring out the natural ability of your dog. Opening day, find some very crowded public land and load your buddies in a 14' Jon and hunt away...


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## initforfun (Dec 21, 2005)

I got my trio from www.piccadillylabs.com/ They all are GREAT. My black lab is an amazing waterfowler one of my yellows hunts upland game (mostly birds) and my other yellow well, he mostly hunts for warm spots to sleep but he is great. Nicole is great with any questions or getting you info you want. Tons of good breeders out there good luck!







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## GDLUCK (Dec 2, 2002)

2manyfish said:


> I would have to agree with gdlucky. Some of the best hunting dogs have been trained using his thought process. Throw a few tennis balls- Bring out the natural ability of your dog. Opening day, find some very crowded public land and load your buddies in a 14' Jon and hunt away...


Looks like your reading teacher followed the process you described, and i'll give you the benefit of doubt and say your a high school graduate. 

So as I said earlier titles are no guarantee.


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## RIGHT ANGLE BACK (Aug 23, 2007)

Check out this sight..http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums. This is a great spot to locate a quality pup. I'm sure a few of the big name breeders listed above post on here as well. 
Good luck on your search.


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## Cobb1973 (Oct 21, 2011)

Put my deposit in a couple months ago for a pup from king seed. They have a hannah / ely litter expected late summer.. If you want a pup from that litter you may have to put your deposit in soon. 

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## Cobb1973 (Oct 21, 2011)

I believe they are the right breeder for what I want out of my dog. Anybody have experience with them?

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## 2manyfish (Feb 17, 2003)

GDLUCK said:


> Looks like your reading teacher followed the process you described, and i'll give you the benefit of doubt and say your a high school graduate.
> 
> So as I said earlier titles are no guarantee.


Hey- I agreed with you. That wasn't very nice.

I still think tennis balls are great for dogs.


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## Lamarsh (Aug 19, 2014)

GDLUCK said:


> The test is incredibly detailed and has to be performed precisely to get accurate results. Get a ball and throw it.
> 
> I'm sure you heard of Steve jobs? College dropout. He didn't pass any test that said he could be a CEO but he did alright for himself.
> 
> ...


I think we're simply talking about two different things. If you are saying that a dog doesn't need to be hunt tested and qualified to be good in the field, I think we all agree with that. What the OP needs, however, in finding a breeder that breeds dogs with solid working genes, is tangible evidence of good and consistent working genes in a dog, and titles are one of the main means by which a guy shopping for a dog can figure that out. Picking a breeder needs to be more than a dice roll when it comes to being confident that the pup you end up with has good working genetics.


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## GDLUCK (Dec 2, 2002)

2manyfish said:


> Hey- I agreed with you. That wasn't very nice.
> 
> I still think tennis balls are great for dogs.


then you have my apologies.... it read as pure sarcasm to me. maybe my teach used tennis balls


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## GDLUCK (Dec 2, 2002)

Lamarsh said:


> I think we're simply talking about two different things. If you are saying that a dog doesn't need to be hunt tested and qualified to be good in the field, I think we all agree with that. What the OP needs, however, in finding a breeder that breeds dogs with solid working genes, is tangible evidence of good and consistent working genes in a dog, and titles are one of the main means by which a guy shopping for a dog can figure that out. Picking a breeder needs to be more than a dice roll when it comes to being confident that the pup you end up with has good working genetics.


titles are def a good start. however i would not buy a dog just because the sire/dam have a title or 2. I also would not buy a dog site unseen froma guy that says "great hunters". good trainers can make a naturally poor (desire/drive) dog pass a HT. in the same, a poor trainer can break a great dog down. Seen both first hand. big difference between a dog that get HRCH in 8 tries vs the one that takes 25.

In the end you should go see the sire/dam.


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## black dog (Oct 29, 2008)

Lamarsh said:


> I think we're simply talking about two different things. If you are saying that a dog doesn't need to be hunt tested and qualified to be good in the field, I think we all agree with that. What the OP needs, however, in finding a breeder that breeds dogs with solid working genes, is tangible evidence of good and consistent working genes in a dog, and titles are one of the main means by which a guy shopping for a dog can figure that out. Picking a breeder needs to be more than a dice roll when it comes to being confident that the pup you end up with has good working genetics.


Totally agree.
You increase your odds of gettting a good pup by buying from a proven breeder.


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## Outdoor Gal (Sep 9, 2008)

I'm shopping for a pup too. I've spoken with Kingseed, Michigander, and Hunters Rose Kennels. I don't think you can go wrong with a pup from any of them. I've only heard good things about all three.


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## choc24/7 (Jan 22, 2008)

Also http://www.miretrievers.com/[/QUOTE]

my dog just went here today with Ken to go south for training...nice guy and has some good dogs...would contact him..,...Kingseed is another....

be careful, there are alot of owners that are flooding market with low titled females with not much in the bloodline and breeding to s good stud and charging alot of $$$$$....take your time and talk to alot of people in the biz...


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## choc24/7 (Jan 22, 2008)

GDLUCK said:


> Find labs that like to retrieve and you are good to go. health clearances are good to have. HT titles are over rated. HT Titles are more a reflection of the trainer than the dog. Most any lab that likes to retrieve acn HT title with a decent trainer. crawling pigs can get HT titles as long as they bring the duck back.


one of the dumbest things i have read in a long time.....i take that back, i just read the rest of your posts....they all fall in the statement......
pack yer buddies in a boat and you shoot 5 ducks,,,what happens now?? your kind of dog gets 1 and you and buddies get the rest....what happens when your dog doesnt see the bird go down 150 yds away...do you just throw a tennis ball that direction????


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## black dog (Oct 29, 2008)

choc24/7 said:


> Also http://www.miretrievers.com/


my dog just went here today with Ken to go south for training...nice guy and has some good dogs...would contact him..,...Kingseed is another....

be careful, there are alot of owners that are flooding market with low titled females with not much in the bloodline and breeding to s good stud and charging alot of $$$$$....take your time and talk to alot of people in the biz...[/QUOTE]


That's a great point choc.
Too many just look at the stud's accomplishments but the female is just as important. I always advise people to do their homework on the female too.


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## GDLUCK (Dec 2, 2002)

choc24/7 said:


> one of the dumbest things i have read in a long time.....i take that back, i just read the rest of your posts....they all fall in the statement......
> pack yer buddies in a boat and you shoot 5 ducks,,,what happens now?? your kind of dog gets 1 and you and buddies get the rest....what happens when your dog doesnt see the bird go down 150 yds away...do you just throw a tennis ball that direction????



Do you feel like a bigger man now all smart and knowledgable? If you disagree just say so. Condensending remarks just make you small. Funny though to get such words of wisdom from someone that has to pay other people to train their dog. 

So here's a question. If a dog comes to the line and trots from the line out the the bird and trots back, successfully completing all marks, and does the same on blinds. Will the dog pass an HRC test?

And try reading my post again. I didn't say anything about training a dog with a tennis ball. However if that's what someone wants to do and are happy with that good for them. 

You went back and read my old posts? That's just creepy and says everything anyone needs to know........


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## pts (Dec 27, 2005)

I got mine from old oak kennels in Minnesota, absolute class act and great pedigrees. The dog has been nothing but a dream in the house since he was a pup and will be hell on ducks and pats.


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## BIRD BARREL (Aug 14, 2010)

Speed does not make a good retrieve . Fast dogs that charge hard for ever retrieve burn out fast and usually have to be put up half way through a hunt . A dog that can pace it self and can handle and listen well can hunt all day . Remember speed kills .


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## black dog (Oct 29, 2008)

BIRD BARREL said:


> Speed does not make a good retrieve . Fast dogs that charge hard for ever retrieve burn out fast and usually have to be put up half way through a hunt . A dog that can pace it self and can handle and listen well can hunt all day . Remember speed kills .


A *well trained* hard charger is a thing of beauty to hunt with.
A *poorly trained* hard charger is a pain in the butt to hunt with.


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## tlabotz (Apr 10, 2010)

Check out Storms Ahead Kennels. Janet has great dogs and a litter due this summer.
http://stormsaheadkennels.com/


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## labsrus (Dec 1, 2012)

Jim & Mary Trotter at Ever-Ready Retrievers in Haslett, MI. 
we have a litter born 3/6/15
it is a fox red breeding FC AFC Snapper X Skeeter MH


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## JYDOG (Aug 9, 2002)

GDLUCK said:


> Do you feel like a bigger man now all smart and knowledgable? If you disagree just say so. Condensending remarks just make you small. Funny though to get such words of wisdom from someone that has to pay other people to train their dog. ......


GDLUCK, So your right and the people with the most accomplished dogs are wrong. When you have a dog that has the talent tto compete with the best then you will have credibility. But that would require documentation aka a title. 

Would you poo poo a hunter for hiring a guide? Or a person using a mechanic to fix a car? Sometimes hiring a pro has to do with time, equipment and access to training grounds. Or it could be a newcomer that wants it done right the first time rather than go through a succession of dogs to gain experience. 

My one question for you and the tennis ball trainer is "What is your standard? What is a finished dog to you? 

Tiles are a definition of standards and a third party documentation.


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## acebro19 (Feb 26, 2013)

tlabotz said:


> Check out Storms Ahead Kennels. Janet has great dogs and a litter due this summer.
> 
> http://stormsaheadkennels.com/



Second this!


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