# Non typical grouse dogs



## Worm Dunker (Sep 11, 2000)

I started grouse hunting in the 60's. In all these years in the woods the only dogs I have seen in the woods were labs,setters,pointers, gsp,britts,mixed breed, and one irish setter cashing a deer by us once. Now that I have been to a couple M.S. grouse hunts I have seen visula,wirehair,griff,gordon and a red setter. As much as we arguer here the bottom line is they all find birds. The to me these are the non typical I can't pronounce them so the spelling you figure. Large and small mushterlanders, Braxes-duebonea,wirehair visula and wheim. To my simple mind dogs are like cars. You buy the best you like and can afford. Finally the question why the dogs in the second group and non typical? Is it like pulling in to Hooters with a Lamborghini and telling the girls that mine parked between the two Chevy 4X4 with the gun in the back window? Most of the first group average price 300.00 to 500.00? Second group 750.00 to have no idea. Third group I'm guess they start more than the total money I have in the 3 sxs I use hunt grouse. The one thing I have learned for all those year chasing grouse the more money you pay for a dog doesn't mean it finds more grouse.


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## tsr770 (Mar 3, 2010)

I've only ever hunted pats over cockers and springers. Neither are on your list but both breeds can be excellent timber dogs. It's all about the individual dogs rather than the breed, we have had a $600 English cocker that would work and point in a grass field with the best of the GSP's and a pound Springer that could hold a woodcock untill you stepped on it. Every dog is different, it could be a $75 pound rescue to a $2000 Italian dog... If they have it in them they have it, if they don't they don't.

Our current gun dogs are a 8 year old female English Cocker and a 3 year old Springer that never had her tail docked and with a white tip that you can see a mile away in tall grass... Both dogs have run brush, corn fields, timber and a reserve planted with grasses and they both have done what was needed to put birds in our vests, and even when they didn't it is beautiful to watch them work.


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## michgundog (Feb 22, 2008)

tsr770 said:


> I've only ever hunted pats over cockers and springers. Neither are on your list but both breeds can be excellent timber dogs. It's all about the individual dogs rather than the breed, we have had a $600 English cocker that would work and point in a grass field with the best of the GSP's and a pound Springer that could hold a woodcock untill you stepped on it. Every dog is different, it could be a $75 pound rescue to a $2000 Italian dog... If they have it in them they have it, if they don't they don't.
> 
> Our current gun dogs are a 8 year old female English Cocker and a 3 year old Springer that never had her tail docked and with a white tip that you can see a mile away in tall grass... Both dogs have run brush, corn fields, timber and a reserve planted with grasses and they both have done what was needed to put birds in our vests, and even when they didn't it is beautiful to watch them work.


I agree with everyting! I had a springer from the pound when I was a kid and a friend had a springer/lassie/lab/whatever and those 2 always produced birds. 

However, the part I don't agree with is, your cockers and springers should not be holding point on the birds they find. They are flushing dogs, did you train them with an ecollar and over used it when you tried to steady them? That will take the flush out of a cocker or springer everytime.


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## N M Mechanical (Feb 7, 2008)

Horses for courses

I use DD's and a non bearded wonder DK and some how I will be having grouse on the grill today. Damn doc tailed German dogs 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chewy (Mar 27, 2006)

u forgot German wirehair pointer. why? cause they are fun. granted the gene pool is smaller and it's harder to find a really good one but it's fun


my question is why use a nasty setter? they are burr finders. false point all the time. inferior to. a pointer. 

a setter is someones attempt at a long hair pointer. 
so why have a long hair pointer?


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

This is all my opinion on the subject....... one aspect for "cost" for the dog is the supply/demand economics. Some of the less common dogs may cost more; not due to performance but due to there just not being as common as you have noticed.

From reading a lot of posts on this forum along with talking with a few people with some of the less common breeds what I have learned is some people just want something a little different. I also have come to the conclusion that despite what a lot of people claim their dogs are first and foremost pets, and hunters second. That said some owners enjoy the look, behavior, pet quality and even attention they get from having a less common breed; maybe as far as to say status thing for some people. Same could be said for the guy with the $3200 exotic shotgun who hunts opening day only...but makes sure everyone knows what kind of gun he carries.

As we all know their is a core group who hunt with their dogs on a regular basis. If you are reading this thread and on this forum your prob one of those people. I don't think its no suprize that a good majority of bird dog owners only hunt a few times a year (if that) but enjoy carting around the "image" of being a upland hunter 365 days a year. 

On a personal note i like some of the less common breeds. Ive found that though some are not real common here; in other areas of the world they are common and used as intended..such as the LM and SM.


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## Rugergundog (May 21, 2008)

chewy said:


> u forgot German wirehair pointer. why? cause they are fun. granted the gene pool is smaller and it's harder to find a really good one but it's fun
> 
> 
> my question is why use a nasty setter? they are burr finders. false point all the time. inferior to. a pointer.
> ...


Chewy 
I think you might need some cover fire to get out of your foxhole on this one........i have a feeling the setter owners are calling in air support.

I can just see the channel 5 news or midland times in the morning......

ahahahahaha


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## Lucky Dog (Jul 4, 2004)

Look at it this way. If we all agreed on what dog is the best, then all we could argue about would be each others spelling......


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## chewy (Mar 27, 2006)

Rugergundog said:


> Chewy
> I think you might need some cover fire to get out of your foxhole on this one........i have a feeling the setter owners are calling in air support.
> 
> I can just see the channel 5 news or midland times in the morning......
> ...


ohhh I'm just having fun. I mean really is there such thing as a typical grouse dog? I think the answer to that is subjective. so the entire question was a loaded one. 

the intent of the question is. why would anyone use a dog other than a superior breed and the only breed an English setter. 

but if u word it so it's only pointed at minority breeds you won't get attacked by everyone else. 

why do people use the typical grouse breed to hunt pheasant? last time I checked a bird is a bird


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## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

I know a guy who did quite well with a flushing pit-bull:lol:


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## griffondog (Dec 27, 2005)

If my game only involved grouse hunting I would own a one of your traditional breeds. But my life is way more complicated than that!

I'll spend 30 days in the field killing waterfowl. 5 days hunting pheasants another 5 grouse and woodcock. If I take a trip to South Dakota another 5 days chasing pheasants,sharpies and chickens. 

Dog also has to run the trapline with me and hunt coyotes. I don't think a traditional grouse dog is wired for that.:lol: 

I'n the last couple months I've been keeping a Braque Du Bourbonnaise that was taken back from I'ts original owner. You can include them in your traditional upland grouse dog. It's been a pleasure working with this dog. There wired just like a setter or pointer. In fact didn't they use them to start both breeds.:evilsmile Since I'm a nonconformist looks like the dog has found a new home.

Griff


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## Paco (Dec 18, 2006)

Worm Dunker said:


> I started grouse hunting in the 60's. In all these years in the woods the only dogs I have seen in the woods were labs,setters,pointers, gsp,britts,mixed breed, and one irish setter cashing a deer by us once. Now that I have been to a couple M.S. grouse hunts I have seen visula,wirehair,griff,gordon and a red setter. To my simple mind dogs are like cars. You buy the best you like and can afford.
> 
> Finally the question why the dogs in the second group and non typical?


You answered your own ( possibly ) loaded question; 
" You buy the best you* like , and can afford."*

*My answer is a question .... Why Not ?*


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## aimus1 (Feb 28, 2011)

FindTheBird said:


> I know a guy who did quite well with a flushing pit-bull:lol:


Good fun but I've seriously seen a guy who hunted over a full size poodle as a flusher and the dog produced birds. The dog had a good nose and was well range trained. Retrieved and all.:yikes:
Collin


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## Quig7557 (Dec 31, 2008)

I had a Australian shepherd that I would use for grouse and squirral. She didn't have much of a nose and would only bark once or twice when treed. She handled nice as a flusher though and her brains were what made her work out. 

Oh, she retreived too and sorted the black squirrals into a different pile, no BS.

She was hell on cats, possum & ****, anything that wasn't supposed to be int the yard.

As far as bird dogs go, everyone likes there own stlye of dogs, that is why they have them. I have no use for a brittany and don't particularly like a twelve oclock tail on a dog. Thats just what I like. You can use most anything to kill birds, some guys get them with a car!


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## Induna (Apr 19, 2007)

aimus1 said:


> Good fun but I've seriously seen a guy who hunted over a full size poodle as a flusher and the dog produced birds. The dog had a good nose and was well range trained. Retrieved and all.:yikes:
> Collin


Me Too!!!


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## Shotgun Kennel (Feb 9, 2007)

Poodle, Really?


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## griffondog (Dec 27, 2005)

Shotgun Kennel said:


> Poodle, Really?


Just for you Tim!


http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=344370

Griff


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## chewy (Mar 27, 2006)

Induna said:


> Me Too!!!


lol


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)




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## Firemedic (Apr 5, 2005)

I'd rather hunt with an intense, agile poodle than a clumsy, gumpy, 80lb shorthair.


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## Baddog (Jan 11, 2011)

When I was a kid I hunted with an old dachshund for pheasants. Once she got on the trail they didn't have a chance. Might take an hour of following her in circles through the fields but they never could lose her. After she died I took my nieghbors German Sheperd. Wasn't great, but I did kill a few birds.


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## Ericgmci (Jun 27, 2010)

Chewy-
Why would you want to look at one of those dogs in the field or in the woods? I think it's like dating a fat chick, might get the job done but lifes to short for that!


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## JBooth (Sep 21, 2009)

Killed a lot of birds over our last chessie. I think as long as the dog understands what it is doing you will get birds.


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## Worm Dunker (Sep 11, 2000)

Chewy I've killed more grouse with a britt/beagle mix I owned than all of my big running trial setters combined. I was younger hunted harder and a bird that sat on the ground or in a tree to long they went to dinner. I didn't try post this as a loaded question. I hunted the first 10 days of the season this year. I don't know where you hunt but up around the Grayling area in 10 days we see 4 different breeds. Setters, pointers, shortshairs, and labs. Back when I was working I made 65.00 per hour even then I could justify the money to buy a dog that had to have a passport and a note from a king or queen to breed it. But I would have bet a week wage that my mix mut would out hunt a dog that doesn't even speak english!!!


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## jimmyjette14 (Aug 25, 2005)

JBooth said:


> Killed a lot of birds over our last chessie. I think as long as the dog understands what it is doing you will get birds.


 

yep I stand with you, pheasents too, I will need to try ducks someday


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## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

Firemedic said:


> I'd rather hunt with an intense, agile poodle than a clumsy, gumpy, 80lb shorthair.


...or a clumsy, gumpy, 80lb pointer for that matter.


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## Firemedic (Apr 5, 2005)

FindTheBird said:


> ...or a clumsy, gumpy, 80lb pointer for that matter.


Exactly........


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## birdhuntingbtch (Mar 30, 2009)

To answer your question about Hooters, no owning a rare breed is not like a Lamborghini it more like pull into the parking lot with a mint condition 65 Covair , who cares it just a Corvair. Well you do, because you like it, your dad had one.


The answer to your questions is not simple or short. My husband is an avid bow hunter he shoots traditional, recurve, long bow with his fingers, never owned a release or had a peep-site on his string. He would rather hunt from the ground then a stand. Now, if you hunt with a compound, a release and hunted from a stand would you think your way is better than my husbands? No its not its just different, you can go into any sporting goods shop and by a bow already set up  just 2 different choices to get the job done.

We had Brittneys at the time we brought our 1st Braque du Bourbonnais home. We chose the Bourbonnais because we wanted an adventure. The breed traces back to the 1500s in France and to this day they are still rare in their home country. Going into a rare breed is risky choice for anyone to say the least. No, just because they cost more or are imported does not mean that they will produce more birds then a traditional breed  Pointer, Setter, Shorthair. But then again getting one of those traditional breeds does not always guarantee success. There are just more breeders to choose from so you lower your risk of failure. 

When you choose to own a rare breed you are exposed to all of your mistakes, you have no breeder or trainer to blame, just yourself. You alone have to figure out your dog and work with them to be the best they can be. Which in turn makes you the best you can be  I say this because there are not many people when we got our first Bourbonnais 10 years ago who ever saw one let along trained one. It puts you back full circle when you were first starting out, figure it out and make it work, and when you do the rewards make it worth it. Rare breeds should come with a disclaimer, dont try this at home, while the rewards are great, the heartache can be over whelming.


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## chewy (Mar 27, 2006)

Ericgmci said:


> Chewy-
> Why would you want to look at one of those dogs in the field or in the woods? I think it's like dating a fat chick, might get the job done but lifes to short for that!


Eric why would i want to look at a long hair pointer.. its like having a butter face woman.


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## GSPJAKE (Nov 23, 2007)

Firemedic said:


> I'd rather hunt with an intense, agile poodle than a clumsy, gumpy, 80lb shorthair.


Jake is 76.5 pound and nothing clumsy about him...gumpy maybe:lol::lol:


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## Worm Dunker (Sep 11, 2000)

A Corvair really. Most on here will have to google Covair!!! They started in the 1500 and are rare in their own country. Being rare in there our country what happened did they get replaced by poodles. Sorry I just can't get past the Corvair!!!


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## Induna (Apr 19, 2007)

1500's? New kid on the block eh. Standard Poodles are unchanged sence the 4th century. All you people with wire or curly haired dogs sorry to tell you this but it comes from Poodles and yes I hunt with and kill birds with Standards.


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## birdhuntingbtch (Mar 30, 2009)

Induna said:


> 1500's? New kid on the block eh. Standard Poodles are unchanged sence the 4th century. All you people with wire or curly haired dogs sorry to tell you this but it comes from Poodles and yes I hunt with and kill birds with Standards.


I have a friend that hunts with 2 standard Poodles, they are great dogs..


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## Quig7557 (Dec 31, 2008)

A standard poodle is a cool dog. Glad to here they still exist as hunters, what they were bred for.


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## wirehair (Oct 16, 2007)

$ per pound Large Italian dogs are a bargain.


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## Worm Dunker (Sep 11, 2000)

Not to be smart Charlie but don't they have pointing poodles? I sure it was Fred Troast showed a white one pointing pheasants on a preserve. It had a red bandana on I remember think how cute. But out it the snow thats all you could see.


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## 2ESRGR8 (Dec 16, 2004)

wirehair said:


> $ per pound Large Italian dogs are a bargain.


yeah but how do they taste?


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## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

2ESRGR8 said:


> yeah but how do they taste?


I'll ask the owner of the Chinese restaurant down the street, but I bet it's like linguine:lol:


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## Induna (Apr 19, 2007)

Worm Dunker said:


> Not to be smart Charlie but don't they have pointing poodles? I sure it was Fred Troast showed a white one pointing pheasants on a preserve. It had a red bandana on I remember think how cute. But out it the snow thats all you could see.


Terry they are Poodlepointers. They were a cross between a standard and one of the pointer breeds, not sure if it was English or German, They have since went on to be a recognized breed on their own. My Poodles are flushers but the female has started to flash point from time to time.


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

Can only speak for myself as to why I chose an uncommon breed. I was looking for a dog that would fill a combination of wants and needs. At the time I hunted both upland and waterfowl, so I wanted a dog that was both a natural pointing dog, a retriever and one that loved the water. I was also looking for a good family dog that would be great with kids.

I have no interest in field trials and had no plans to breed the dog, so a pedigree heavy with champions was not a priority.

So I started looking at some of the versatile breeds and compared their features. The breed I selected had the right combination that I was looking for. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and certainly one of the deciding factors was that I was looking for a long haired coat, (better suited for Northern Michigan winters) and I liked the liver and white markings of the breed. The cost involved was not any more then buying a more conventional breed from a good kennel. 

Is he the ultimate hunting dog? Nope, I'm sure not. Probably more my fault then his. He does a better job pointing the birds then I do knocking them down. He does not complain when I miss so I don't complain if he occasionally bumps a bird. He's now twelve and a half years old and his best hunting days are behind him but he's been a heck of hunting companion and more then that just a heck of a companion, for the last decade. He's sleeping at my feet in front of the fire as I type this. No regrets here, I've been very pleased with my Small Munsterlander pointer.


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