# Holding deer



## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

What are the odds of actually holding deer on a smaller peice of property if you hunt it? How big of an area of sanctuary does it take? And how long does it take to create such an area where the deer will feel safe and stay put under stressful times (firearm season)? I was wondering after reading some of the info in another thread about passing bucks and not knowing what their likelyhood for survival is with heavy pressure nearby. 

AW


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## poz (Nov 12, 2004)

Adam,

you can hold them if they have no reason to leave.
I think there was a property down in hillsdale that just sold that was manange from the late 60's to now. I think it was 400 acres and was home to approx. 200 deer. I don't think it was fenced in either, I could be wrong though. I'll try to find out. I've seen picture of the deer and they were huge.


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

If only I had the extra 310 acres to work with :lol: 

AW


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Poz is correct, give them everything they need and they will stick close. Ofcourse, one hot doe and he may end up in the next zip code! I think the number one factor in holding deer during the season, if you have their needs covered, is hunting pressure. Hunt it a lot or hunt bad wind etc, etc and you won't hold deer. 
A friend of mine with 240 acres has about a 40 acre sanctuary....they never, ever go in it unless they have to. It has heavy cover, water etc. Those guys see more bucks headed to that little sanctuary than many guys see in five years of hunting......I'm serious. Two years ago, the last day of muzzleloader season, 14 different bucks were spotted by one guy. (this is not in southern Mi either)
You want to keep the sanctuary away from your property lines if you can....keep them safe from the neighbors if that is your intention. I think a few acres on smaller properties is enough if the location is right etc. You don't need to hold a lot of deer, just a couple of bucks....under pressure they will share ground from what I have read. And my friends property seems to back this up. 
Another friend that has a coople hundred acres about 4 miles from that 240 also keep a sanctuary and they are also succesfull on mature deer every year. 
I think any property can benefit from it.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

If you have 90 acres, you could probably set up 15+ acres depending on the terrain. Plus, you can always use the chainsaw and the tracter!


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## poz (Nov 12, 2004)

Swamp Monster said:


> Poz is correct, .



Oh my god, the sky is falling someone actually agreed with me, :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

LMAO....yep I agreed with ya....but we _both_ might be wrong! :lol:


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Adam Waszak said:


> What are the odds of actually holding deer on a smaller peice of property if you hunt it? How big of an area of sanctuary does it take? And how long does it take to create such an area where the deer will feel safe and stay put under stressful times (firearm season)? I was wondering after reading some of the info in another thread about passing bucks and not knowing what their likelyhood for survival is with heavy pressure nearby.
> 
> AW


Adam,
We've had a similar discussion in the past. I think it depends on what part of the state, and what you have to work with. As you know, my buddies and I have very small parcels here in southern Michigan, but we still have what we refer to as "sanctuaries" on our properties, or on adjoining areas. I created a very small holding area in my woods, probably not more than one acre in size, just by dropping some trees and opening up the canopy so the sunlight could get down. After about 5 or 6 years, the new growth in that little area is phenomenal. And I have herds of deer that stay in that area for a good part of the year, including gun season. We're constantly amazed at how many deer hold in my tiny little woodlot. My buddy up the road did a similar thing with part of his woods which you can barely see from the highway as you drive past. Also, his property abuts that MDOT 80 on the south side, which no one can legally hunt, so that's a natural sanctuary for his property.

My point is you may not need much size if you have the right piece of property in the right location. Up where your property is, it's a completely different story than down here.


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

Yeah it is tough to tell where we are because the hunting pressure is so different there. I just didn't know how much is the minimal to have for the deer to feel secure. Do you plant anything in these areas in addition to the cuttine or do you hope for nature to take over with the sunlight coming in? Ideally I would like an area that is just plain nasty as far as getting into so the deer can get in but nothing else can get to them without them knowing it. So do you plant things or not? If so what? 

AW


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## Cherokee (May 24, 2004)

AW:

The section of trout stream that your property is on closes to fishing 30 SEP each year. Consider making your river bottom a sanctuary if it has the typical thick stuff along it's banks. Deer love to lie along the edge especially if you have an oxbow bend on your tract...if you have tag alders,too, it would be ideal??


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

Cherokee that section in non navigable too so the season may close before that if we want it to :lol: Boy the salmon fishermen (snaggers) would really be hot then huh :evilsmile 

AW


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## johnhunter (Jun 17, 2000)

As to whether you can "hold" deer anywhere, that depends on your definition of "hold". I tend to be skeptical that even the most ambitious management can hold a given deer in a specific area. You may get a greater statistical tendency for deer to hang out in a special zone you've created, but wild, free-ranging deer frequently behave in an unpredictable manner.

There are surely farms out there that contain more intensively managed habitat than mine, but I've never set foot on one of them. Throughout the seasons of the year, preferred food sources will constantly change, and deer will adjust their patterns accordingly, regardless of how succulent your soybeans are (and I happen to believe that deep-green soybeans are deer attractant numero uno). Radio telemetry studies have shown that doe groups will commonly spend a few days in one locale, then move onto another, then another. Such studies have also found evidence of mature bucks holing up in a standing cornfield during the hunting season _and not leaving it for thirty days!_ So much for holding "your" buck in the bed you made for him.

Providing diverse habitat, ample and varied cover, food, water, whatever to meet the needs of deer, and especially to respect your "safe" zones, is an effective means of attracting and keeping deer on your property. A quality "safe" zone, providing you stay out and stay downwind of it, will likely be a deer magnet once human pressure increases nearby.

As far as how big a sanctuary needs to be, who knows? A small one is a lot better than none at all. I tend to believe that a number of smaller sanctuaries may be more effective in holding more deer in your property than a single big one, though their whereabouts may be less predictable and make for more challenging hunting.


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## Cherokee (May 24, 2004)

Aw:

Spearers over by us. 

Get this, my buddy closes on his place and gets the keys to his cabin end of September ( trout season closed right?) He heads to his bow stand in his waders walking downstream in the river, comes around a bend and there is a guy with a spear enjoying the beautiful day( probably been at that spot for twenty years huh?) the guy was shaking as my buddy approached him with bow in hand with his camo ninja mask on, My buddy said the guy was visibly shaking in his boots:lol: . He told the guy " I own both of these banks and the rules have changed around here" Haven't seen the violator now in three years.....he grabbed the dude's homemade spear for a conversation piece...we're workin' on the other suspects in the area...lighted bait piles etc...we'll get 'em sooner or later.

Anyway, the riverbottom attracts all kinds of "creatures"


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

FL, I am talkin 90 acres here so how far away fromt he perimeter of the sanctuary is ideal to stay clear of. This is a property where family is at all year round on the weekends and we have a Gator to ride and do work with etc so it will have people on the property throughout the year and the deer know this but if I build a sanctuary area, ideally how far should I place it from frequently visited areas? I know this is tough because this property was not purchased for "deer" only so I know there are not precise answers but I am looking at 2 plots and 2 sanctuaries (if I can talk the old man into what I am thinking) in addition to a lot of loplar and ironwood cutting. Any tree planting etc would come after this work (alot of it) was at least started and going well. Thanks for the info

AW


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

Cherokee said:


> Aw:
> 
> Spearers over by us.
> 
> ...


Cherokee, want to see a bunch of guys freak? I walked up to some spearers on the river wearing a DNR hat and said any luck? I was on one side of the river and they took off runnin, jumped in the vehicle and took off. I also grabbed a conversation piece that day hoping I wasn't asked what I was doing with it on my way to the cabin :lol: We had a few guys arrested last fall with a bunch of salmon they snagged after the close of the season. 

we'll get em alright :evil: 

AW


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Adam Waszak said:


> Yeah it is tough to tell where we are because the hunting pressure is so different there. I just didn't know how much is the minimal to have for the deer to feel secure. Do you plant anything in these areas in addition to the cuttine or do you hope for nature to take over with the sunlight coming in? Ideally I would like an area that is just plain nasty as far as getting into so the deer can get in but nothing else can get to them without them knowing it. So do you plant things or not? If so what?
> 
> AW


A nasty place to walk is exactly what I created. Between the downed trees and brush, and the plantings, it's downright tough back there. We planted quite a few things. I talked with the county extension guy and based on his advice put in things like poplar, dogwood, maple, and various shrubs. Funny part is the deer ate half of them before they made it one year. How do I know it was deer you ask? I learned that you can tell by the cut on the stalk...a clean cut is usually a rabbit...a crushed, not clean cut is usually a deer. But enough survived to help. So if you have a county extension office up there, talk to them....they're free 

And Farmlegend, what I mean by "hold" is that often they're bedded right there. It's just a real nasty, brushy, holding area that the deer seem to love.


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## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

This is your thread - and it 'seems' that you kinda helped it head south (off topic) so, if you would please bring it back I'd appreciate it 

ferg....


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

From Part 2 of the link:
*Thicker is better, is a phrase often used to describe what it takes to hold deer on a property. Few think of this, but it is important to set up safe havens for individual doe groups. If you can hold several different doe groups on a property you can hold the bucks. This can be accomplished by creating multiple sanctuaries, areas that are totally off limits to hunters. If you break down, and hunt a sanctuary when things get tough, youve defeated your purpose. Learn this and learn it well for it will be one of your biggest tickets to success. At the very least 25% of a property should be placed into a sanctuary habitat, and much more if possible. 

* Here's what the experts say Part 1

Here's what the experts say Part 2


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## nky_bowhunter (May 31, 2005)

Adam, my property is also 90 acres. My sanctuary actually just developed itself as it was too thick to hunt, so we didn't. basically, we've got about 40 acres of cedar thicket and surrounding thick scrub not quite centrally located but with at least 60 yards of clearance from any property lines. It is very rugged hilly terrain and too thick too walk through. Last season when I popped a doe with my hand cannon (.454 Casull) she ran in there, and I had to go after her. I must have chased 30 deer out! Hated to do it, but I wasn't going to let her die in there and not retrieve her either! It has gotten less thick over time as the cedars have matured, so we may go in and cut a bunch to let mother nature thicken it back up for us. But the name of the game is STAY OUT! Going in after that doe was the first time I'd been in there in over 3 years! Incidentally, I'm glad I did because I realize now I need to thicken it up some or I'll lose some of the benefits of it. That's the long version, short version - Yes you can hold deer on 90 acres, easily! I wouldn't expect to protect 'that buck' or 'that doe', but you will protect several to many deer.


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## Brad Gehman (Jun 6, 2004)

Adam, when you guys do hunt your land, you'll need to do it by stand hunting only and no walking around, at all. I have 420 acres in a triangle shape and last year, just by walking around, we pushed some nice deer off onto the public ground and lost them. This year, it will be no walking, at all, except to retrieve deer, etc. But, you just have to watch your hunter movement a bit. 


We also have 2 sanctuaries and am interested in seeing how they work out. One is a new clearcut and by this fall should be pretty thick, that will help us out. 

A friend of mine has 40 acres here in PA. Last year, I convinced him to make 2, one acre clearcuts. It was mostly junk trees, so we took them all down. The second Sat of our gun season, 12 deer came into one of the cuts in the morning, he was in a treestand 75 yd away, and stayed till dark. One of them a slammer buck and he could not get a shot at that deer all day! But, after that day, he was completely convinced of the idea of thickets and sactuaries. 

We cut another acre this winter. :lol:


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## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

is not on your property - just having something close will help - my little area is small - but - one of the reason I purchased it was the ten acres that adjoins mine in to the south - it is heavy cedar with emergent wetland (water) good thermal cover and never entered into - 

You can see the very dark area in the 'middle' of this photo - 










my 20 is just to the north - and is in about its 15th year of sucession with a great stand of poppler coming in the NE quad.

There is sign year round - 

ferg....


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## BDL (Dec 17, 2004)

AW -


What you might consider when creating your sanctuary is how tolerant deer will be to human movement. In southern MI, deer are very tolerant of hunters getting close to them, while further north, deer will explode out of cover much further away.


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

Often times if it is thick enough by us the deer will hold till you step on them almost so if I can get a nice thick area and leave it alone I think it will work but the problem is where and how, or property is set up kind of funny so I have to determine the area that I can do this on for the bes results. What to plant wouls be helpful too guys if there is anything that will work well. 

AW


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Ferg said:


> .......even if it is not on your property - just having something close will help - ferg....



My point exactly in my previous post. I only have a little over 10 acres, and my buddy up the road, about 40. But in both locations, we are adjacent to properties that lend themselves nicely to what we are trying to do. So like I said before....location....location...location.


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## BDL (Dec 17, 2004)

Spruce trees (both blue and white spruce) work extremely well. Deer don't normally browse on them unless in starvation mode. Plant them close together (five feet) so that the lower stories of the trees interweave with each other as the trees grow. Nick Adams might be able to answer the question about soil types for conifer plantings.


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## Brad Gehman (Jun 6, 2004)

Ferg, I hunt an unposted farm here in PA that has a swamp adjacent to it. Not a large swamp by any means, maybe 10 acres. This farm is heavily hunted, yet holds the most incredible bucks. One year, I had 11 bucks walk out into a clover field, single file, on a July evening. Some of these bucks were 16-20 inches. Last year, there were 2 over 20 inches. Most likely at least 3.5 years old. This farm has produced big bucks even before we had the antler restrictions here in PA. 

So, sounds like your situation is somewhat similar to mine. And Adam, if you do it right, you will hold deer, not all, but some, and that could be all the difference.


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## Nick Adams (Mar 10, 2005)

BDL said:


> Nick Adams might be able to answer the question about soil types for conifer plantings.


I don't have much direct experience. We don't plant softwoods. The general silvicultural reference can be found here:

http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/silvics_manual/volume_1/silvics_vol1.pdf

-na


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## nky_bowhunter (May 31, 2005)

Adam, I wouldn't get too caught up in what to plant to make it thick....mother nature will do a very nice job of that for you. You may want to supplement if what takes over naturally has little or no value for deer, but otherwise, leave it alone. May take a couple years, but none of this deer management stuff happens overnight. Expect to wait 5 or more years before you see the results you want. Also, do you have an aerial photo? I'm sure there are several folks on here who could look at it and help you out.


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## BDL (Dec 17, 2004)

nky - 

If land doesn't have an ideal holding cover now.....how is it going to change in "a few years" if nothing is being done??? Hasn't it already had this chance? Remember, you're talking Michigan were we might only have 4 months of growing weather, thus we don't have the extremely thick laurels found in most southern state's woods.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Brad Gehman said:


> ...One year, I had 11 bucks walk out into a clover field, single file, on a July evening. Some of these bucks were 16-20 inches. Last year, there were 2 over 20 inches.


Come to my place in late July/early August  I have a high hill behind my place where we sit and glass about 80 to 100 acres. When he has beans in there, it's like watching rabbits. Not uncommon at all to have 12 to 15 bucks feeding out there at one time, including some monsters. It's the best entertainment in town on a hot summer night.


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## Brad Gehman (Jun 6, 2004)

just ducky said:


> Come to my place in late July/early August  I have a high hill behind my place where we sit and glass about 80 to 100 acres. When he has beans in there, it's like watching rabbits. Not uncommon at all to have 12 to 15 bucks feeding out there at one time, including some monsters. It's the best entertainment in town on a hot summer night.


Ok, send directions, shouldn't be more than oh 1/2 days drive for me. :lol: 

I will say this, after reading all about Michigan here, I would like to see it some day.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Brad Gehman said:


> Ok, send directions, shouldn't be more than oh 1/2 days drive for me. :lol:
> 
> I will say this, after reading all about Michigan here, I would like to see it some day.


Actually, you're real close on that. I have a brother in NorthCentral PA, and he comes back home fairly often. Takes him about 12 hours through NY State/Ontario.

Funny thing....we hunted PA with him way back in the early 80's when deer were real thick, or so it seemed compared to here. But ever since about '90, he comes here now because there are more deer, and the size of the animal (and yes, the rack) is much better than out there. He did tell me recently though that the AR's you have are definitely having a positive affect on the bucks there....hang in there


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## Happy Hunter (Apr 14, 2004)

this is another thread that shows that the success of QDM is in limiting and controling the number of hunters. There is no such thing as a secure area that is off limits to hunters on public land.

I would be thrilled to set aside 30 acres as a secure area ,but we only own 35 acres on which 6 family members hunt.Should I tell my sister and her husband they can no longer hunt with us so we can provide secure area for those buck/


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## Nimrod1 (Apr 26, 2004)

Happy Hunter said:


> this is another thread that shows that the success of QDM is in limiting and controling the number of hunters. There is no such thing as a secure area that is off limits to hunters on public land.
> 
> I would be thrilled to set aside 30 acres as a secure area ,but we only own 35 acres on which 6 family members hunt.Should I tell my sister and her husband they can no longer hunt with us so we can provide secure area for those buck/


You don't need to make 30 acres as security cover for it to help. Make a couple of smaller, 1/2 - 1 acre areas. Anything is better than nothing.

I can show you some areas on state land in Allegan county, that aren't off limits, but no one hunts them because it requires too much work to get there. Most guys think it would kill them to have to drag a deer out of these areas, just not worth it. I like that mentality, because those bucks are worth it!!


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## Cherokee (May 24, 2004)

"lazy hunters" are my allies !!


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## TUCKER (Nov 1, 2002)

Adam, One thing to consider is your travel routes to and from your blinds. I would travel only the perimeter of your property to and from your blind, not right thru it when you go to your blinds. I would also only hunt the perimeter and not the middle. Set up your plots and sanctuaries in the center of your property and leave it alone. You will cut off the deer leaving your property and maybe if they spook they will run for the center of your property for cover. This works well for us. I know people that have blinds scattered all over their land and come hunting season they literally run all the deer out when they go out to their blinds in the morning.


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## nky_bowhunter (May 31, 2005)

BDL - I should have been more specific....I said that mother nature would make it thick for you. The assumption I had in my head at the time but did not type was that the area must be clear cut (or at least mostly clear cut) to allow plenty of sun to the ground. I have yet to see an area that won't get thick when you clear cut it. Even much further north than Michigan. Thanks for catching that though....mature woods will certainly never 'thicken up'!


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

When you do a clear cut or almost clear cut, do you leave everything or can you take the wood for firewood ans leave the tops etc. What do you do or what have you guys done in the past? How long does it take poplars to sprout new shoots and grow once you cut the large trees down. 

AW


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Adam Waszak said:


> When you do a clear cut or almost clear cut, do you leave everything or can you take the wood for firewood ans leave the tops etc. What do you do or what have you guys done in the past? How long does it take poplars to sprout new shoots and grow once you cut the large trees down.
> 
> AW


Depends what kind of timber you have. In my woods, it was mostly soft maple, poplar, etc., with just a few "timber" trees mixed in. So after I had a forester come out and put a value on the timber (He only charged $75 to do this by the way), we decided to just drop the trees and leave them. The only way I could've made some $$$$ was to clear-cut, which I didn't want to do. If I had had some good hardwood, we would've sold the good stuff and left the tops and brush. 

As far as how quickly poplar return, if you open the area up so it gets a lot of sunlight at the forest floor, you'll be surprised at how quickly they come back. I'm no forester, but poplars grow like weeds in my area.


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

Aspen and red maple are the best trees to clear cut. They regenerate easily and with profusion. You can use the wood for firewood. It is soft and burns quickly, but then it's free.

A true clearcut is the most effective method of causing regeneration of new shoots, that is, if we are speaking of aspen or red maple. By the phrase "true clearcut" I mean the taking of all trees in a given area. Some managers leave a few trees. Aspen and red maple come back much better in a sunny location. 

Evergreens do not come back like those two and you'll need to plant something to replace them.


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## nky_bowhunter (May 31, 2005)

When I go into an area and cut it, I take down everything, unless it is something really beneficial. For example, I wouldn't take out a 75 year old white oak in good condition that produces bushels of acorns. What you want to leave is at your discretion, but be aware that everything you leave shades out valuable sunlight for making that thick, nasty, impenetrable area deer love. Also, when you clear an area, take out as much firewood as you can handle, and make brush piles out of everything you can't. If you let everything lie where it falls, it is also shading the ground and impeding the process of making the area thick. I've never done large areas, only 1/2 acre here and there, but the deer usage in the newly cleared areas is unbelievable! I don't hunt these areas since I use them as future bedding areas, but they work almost as well as food plots sometimes!


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

I was thinking like 1/2 acre areas for now but it may be tough on the old man as the trees start to fall and the tears in his eyes do as well :lol: Tough to do it for the first time i think because you wonder if you are ruining the oods or not but we will get there I just wish I had done it this past winter so I would n't have to wait now. When cutting aspen or poplar, do you guys cut all large ones down in a property or do you leave some of them? We have some good sized ones spread throughout the property and I wasn't sure if we should get all of em out so the entire property thinkens a bit or if that was a bad idea. There are too many questions and not enough time.

AW


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## Freestone (May 15, 2003)

I used to hunt a 160 acre parcel that had about a 60 acre field. One 10 acre area was planted with white pines (they actually survived) and they grew to about 12-15 feet tall before the property was sold. That area held alot of deer and was a great bedding area. If you have some open field area and planted 8-10 acres of pines and then butted it up to a clear cut you would eventually have a good bedding area. Once the pines reach 8-10 feet I would top them off and maybe thin them out so they grow more latteraly.


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

AW -
If you are cutting aspen/poplar you may be better off doing it in the winter or very early spring. Poplar regenerate by sending up suckers from the roots and if the tree is dormant when cut it will send up a lot more new growth than if it's cut during the summer when a lot of the stored energy is already expended for the year. We clear cut around 30 acres of poplar in Lake Co. a few years ago and within 2-3 years the land was so thick with 6'-8' new growth that you could not walk through it. The grouse and the deer loved it. We had all of the timber chipped and removed. BTW, it's fine for firewood but is so wet that it can take a good six months to dry out even after being split. We cut 3-4 cords a year at our cabin and it's all we burn down there. Burns pretty fast so you'll go through a lot more than you would with a hardwood.
___________________________
Munsterlndr
Curmudgeon in Training


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## Bob S (Mar 8, 2000)

Adam, a couple of weeks ago I suggested that you get a copy of _Grow `Em Right_. That would answer a lot of your questions.

Concerning regeneration of Red Maple and Aspen. You will get the most regeneration if you cut your trees in the winter. In winter the root system is full of sap. Once the tree is dead. The root system will put the sap that was intended for leaf production and tree growth into sending up new shoots. This is what you want to maximize. 

Other than shooting lanes. I do all of my chainsaw work between the end of muzzleloader season and the middle of March.

It sounds as though Tucker is doing something similar to what I do on my place. My trails are along the property lines. All of my stand locations, except one, are within sight of a property line. The interior of the property is off limits except for habitat projects. This way we minimize pressure on the deer. This also allows us to have a rather large sanctuary area on a small property. 

It is possible to have an effective management plan on a small property if you are positive and have a plan for success. It sure beats sitting back and complaining about how bad things are. Remember, managing today for a better tomorrow. As opposed to. It won`t work, I don`t have enough acres.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Adam Waszak said:


> I was thinking like 1/2 acre areas for now.....AW



That's exactly what we did...small little areas. And as someone said, some work better than food plots at holding deer. I also do the cutting from January to March simply because that's when I have the time, and there's no hunting going on to interfere with then. Didn't realize that there was actually a biological reason for doing it then....as I said, I'm no forester. But you learn something everyday...THANKS GUYS!


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## nky_bowhunter (May 31, 2005)

and for those of you who have never done it....it's hard work! January or February is great because you don't sweat as much!


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

Bob S said:


> Adam, a couple of weeks ago I suggested that you get a copy of _Grow `Em Right_. That would answer a lot of your questions.
> 
> Concerning regeneration of Red Maple and Aspen. You will get the most regeneration if you cut your trees in the winter. In winter the root system is full of sap. Once the tree is dead. The root system will put the sap that was intended for leaf production and tree growth into sending up new shoots. This is what you want to maximize.
> 
> ...



Bob, I understand what you are saying but as I have said before this is not just hunting property but recreational property for my parents, brother, sister and her 4 kids, me and my wife and 3 kids etc so it is very hard to set up a sanctuary in the middle when we have trails etc for a utility vehicle and we are constantly having people fish the river through the middle. That being said I think I have some areas where a clear cut would be beneficial and I have 2 areas for foodplots all picked out but they will involve a great deal of sweat before the seed can touch the dirt. I may have to look into that book Grow Em Right in the future but right now I think I have plenty to do and I have no equipment currently to work the ground anyway. As I said I am awaiting the QW magazine so I can begin the educational process on what needs to be done to create a more attractive place for the deer to want to be. I will be picking the brains of everyone here I can think of in the near future I am sure but I have to wait awhile for the cutting to begin.

AW


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## BDL (Dec 17, 2004)

AW

Be sure to sell your clear cut timber...you would be very surpised as to what you could receive for it. Either have it pulped or chipped. I'm betting a total of 2-3 acres (via 1/2 acre parcels) could net you a few thousand dollars. Add in some oak or veneer aspen.....wow.


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## SR-Mechead (Jan 25, 2004)

Adam what ever you do make a path wide enough that I can walk down when your not there. If not by the river maybe you could put something along the creek . :lol: :lol: Remember. I'm retired


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

I know you are retired but I didn't realize you were already senile :lol: 

AW


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## Cherokee (May 24, 2004)

AW:

People have been wire snippin' Topp Taggert's place since the thirties, why should things change now?:yikes: ....especially with the pending improvements aforementioned in your posts...gotta watch out for SR-mechead at all costs...retired = more free time to alter the populations of game in those parts:lol:


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

Wish I had permission to hunt the old Taggart place, there was a guy just a poachin for years out there but he hasn't been there in awhile he may have passed away. Nice property out that way though. Be nice if we never had to worry about people poaching wouldn't it. With that in mind I'm sending scouts out to pettibone to keep tabs on the old retired guy :lol: 

AW


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

Cherokee said:


> AW:
> 
> ...gotta watch out for SR-mechead at all costs...retired = more free time to alter the populations of game in those parts:lol:


Speaking of which where the heck ya been Bob?????????


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## SR-Mechead (Jan 25, 2004)

Adam Waszak said:


> Wish I had permission to hunt the old Taggart place, there was a guy just a poachin for years out there but he hasn't been there in awhile he may have passed away. Nice property out that way though. Be nice if we never had to worry about people poaching wouldn't it. With that in mind I'm sending scouts out to pettibone to keep tabs on the old retired guy :lol:
> 
> Adam. Your neighbor had a dream place, but the 40 on the corner which is state land also produces deer and a lot of turkeys.
> 
> AW don't lesson to Cherokee. Everyone knows I'm a saint. :lol:


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## SR-Mechead (Jan 25, 2004)

Whit1 said:


> Speaking of which where the heck ya been Bob?????????[/
> 
> 
> Hi Whit . Been busy ,but now I'm back.


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

SR-Mechead said:


> Adam Waszak said:
> 
> 
> > Wish I had permission to hunt the old Taggart place, there was a guy just a poachin for years out there but he hasn't been there in awhile he may have passed away. Nice property out that way though. Be nice if we never had to worry about people poaching wouldn't it. With that in mind I'm sending scouts out to pettibone to keep tabs on the old retired guy :lol:
> ...


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## SR-Mechead (Jan 25, 2004)

Adam .No matter what you do to your land you are surrounded by poachers. The biggest one is on Spruce right straight across from you. and I also heard that your body across the street was big on poaching. It would be nice if you had a quiet area on your land, but I think the natives know your land better than you do. Its tuff when you don't live there all the time. (Hey maybe you need a care taker) :lol:
Cherokee hows that for sucken up!!!!!!! :lol:


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## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

I'm not familure with the names or locations your talking about - so I don't know if your 'naming names' or not - but lets not put 'names' on aqusations in the forum - there maybe 'issues' with that :yikes: 

And if those are proper names I'd ask that you go back and edit them up some - please - 



ferg.....


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

It is OK Ferg the Taggart name no longer owns the property and the current owner does not even hunt but there are a few who go on there and some have permission and some do not. I do not know the names but I know who he is talking about on spruce, they poached a bear a few years back and were brought to justice byt the fine CO's in the area. SR I am getting more worried about you and Cherokee :lol: Good think the old man will be living full time up there that will help but not eliminate the problem as I have kicked people out while they were in view of 4 otr 5 cars parked at the cabin  The spearers are the best though they think nobody notices them in the middle of the river with spears and yelling get him get him there he is did you get him?  Ya know in Africa I think the game wardens just shoot poachers onthe spot, bet that would change things in a hurry huh :lol: 

AW


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## Ferg (Dec 17, 2002)

Cool - then it's all good - carry on.

ferg....


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## SR-Mechead (Jan 25, 2004)

Adam I would worry about that Cherokee guy to. :lol: 
Glad to here that your dad is going to be up there. That will help a lot.


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## Cherokee (May 24, 2004)

So I guess that the line :


"our land came with roaming rights for the whole county, but the original documents burned way back in the fire at the County Building" just won't fly over at AW's???:lol: 

Had someone use that one before..... 

AW & Bob ~ don't worry I'll be lurking around ,legally, somewhere. Hopefully, Bob, you'll be nearby to help me load up my buck again...


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

Unless you have a hot spot all picked out Cherokee the bucks I have seen over the past several years up there don't require 2 people to load into the truck :lol: Unless you are lurking at legends you should be ok :lol: I did see a buck or 2 this past weekend though so hopefully they are there in November. I may not even hunt the area this year let em come back a little I hope as there will be fewer hunters in the area this year after the past 2 seasons

Anyway, before I get scolded by Ferg for drifting too much we better get back on track here. So the bottom line is pick an area, cut all or nearly all the mature trees out to create more sunlight and wait for mother nature to do her part and in the meantime you can add spruce etc to the are to help thicken it up. This will be on the agenda for the winter time after muzzleloader season is over. I always wondered if grapevines etc would help or if they would get choked out by other stuff cause they can really take off and make an area nearly impenetrable.


AW


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## SR-Mechead (Jan 25, 2004)

Adam thats how I meet Cherokee. We were hunting the same area and I walked into the woods and he was sitting on my bait pile eating the carrots. (Just kidding Cherokee) :lol:. Really I came out at dark and he was loading his buck into the truck . 
I have been doing a little roaming up there and there still isn't the sign like a couple of years ago. Hopefully it will get better.


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## Adam Waszak (Apr 12, 2004)

I guess I won't bait with carrots and Cherokee will stay away huh :lol: Keep me posted as how the herd is looking up there. I wish I knew where you are at I was thinking about you as I drove past Pettibone saturday.

AW


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## SR-Mechead (Jan 25, 2004)

Adam drive to the back side of the lake and you will see a light green garage.
I have one of the best swimming areas on the lake. Stop in anytime


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