# Jon boat vs Canoe



## SHOOTN4FUN (Sep 1, 2006)

I know its probably been debated many times but search wasn't working so I'll ask again.
I currently have a 15 ft square back Grumann canoe with 5hp outboard. I like the size but the couple times I've used it it was a bit tough to control especially yesterday in the wind where I walked some of the way out and also ended up taking an unexpected dip. I do keep all gear as far forward as possible.
So would a jon boat say 12-14 ft be more stable and easier to control alone. I do expect to hunt with 1 or 2 others on occasion or a dog. Sorry so long winded.

Thanks Paul


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

is it a sportboat style or standard canoe style?

sportboat works for me alone. if it was a standard style canoe and i would go for the flatbottom.


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## Mudfoot (Nov 28, 2006)

jonboat would be more stable but before you purchase, check the carrying capacity - some are rated really low and when I researched different canoes and boats, my canoe was rated for 690 lbs of gear/cargo/persons vs the jonboats of similar length only able to carry like 450lbs. No problem if going alone but taking 2 other guys might overload you real quick!


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## SHOOTN4FUN (Sep 1, 2006)

Sorry Kid unfortunately it's not a sportboat. Most of my hunting will b bingo and Marsh areas. Is there much performance difference with mod v Jon? 

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## 2001rotax800 (Jul 30, 2004)

Oh man you get a little wet one trip and already your looking for a new boat!!!!! LOL(jk) My personal thought is if you plan on hunting managed area and are by yourself or with someone a square back sports pal is the perfect choice, extremly stable and very light weight, yet you could get you a buddy and a dog along with a bag of dekes and hunt any managed area, especially since you already have the 5hp outboard.


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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

My Sportspal flat back works great for the bingos. Easy to float in very shallow water, weights only 57lbs and is easy to hide in the corn compared to a wide jon boat.


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## Mr. 16 gauge (Jan 26, 2000)

A johnboat would be more stable, but I think that the advantage would go to a canoe/sportboat. As already stated, the canoe of similar length would hold more weight (which I just DON'T understand.....the physics has me all confused with that one), and I think it would be easier to hide in cover, esp. sparse cover which is some times found in the cornfields.

I used to hunt for a number of years out of a polypropylene Coleman Ram-X canoe....had a heck of a time keeping it painted camo, and w/o a keel, the slightest puff of wind would blow you all over the place. However, I could use it as a 'coffin blind' to hunt in if the cover was low, and it would almost put me at the level of the water. One day my buddy and I took a spill, so I broke down and bought a 13ft V hull with a 9.9 motor. The boat is nice, but its heavy and a bear to pull over a dike, esp. by myself. And with the no wake rule on managed areas, I really don't need all that HP. I bought it with the idea that I would be hunting with a partner more, but with my work schedule and all, I find myself hunting alone more often than not. Also, it is hard to 'cover up' by myself using the blind material/burlap that I have.....takes a bit of time. 

I don't know if they still make them, but I remember seeing outrigger kits for canoes a few years back that attached to the gunnels.....maybe this is something that might give you a bit more stability? Just a thought.....

For all of you who are hunting out of Radisson/sportpal canoes: How much more stable do you feel those canoes are than a standard canoe of similar length? I am thinking of going back to the canoe for the managed areas, and I am looking at those makes specifically due to their lightness and (potential) stability.
thanks in advance.


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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

The 14 foot with the transom is very stable, to the point where I can stand up in it. I put a 3.5 horse on it for long hauls and it scoots right along. Kind of a pain to paddle by yourself but if you want to get to a spot bad enough you'll find a way. Picked mine up off craigs list or 375$ and in good shape. One of my better purchases IMO.


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## SHOOTN4FUN (Sep 1, 2006)

Hey Jonesy is your sportpal square transom or the wide transom(kind of looks like grumann sportboat)?


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## warrenwaterfowler (Aug 31, 2007)

I have both a 1448 jon & a 15' sportspal squarestern with a 5hp motor...I almost always go with the canoe whenever possible. The a spots I hunt are typically shallow marsh or hide on shore type places. I spent a little extra and got the retractable outriggers for it and it easily handles two BIG guys and gear and rides VERY stable. When it's just me in it, ALL gear goes to the bow and if need be, some ballast like 5gal buckets of water or cinder blocks.
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## SHOOTN4FUN (Sep 1, 2006)

Ya maybe some more weight up front(bucket of h2o) might help me out.


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## Ken Martin (Sep 30, 2003)

I have the 16 foot Coleman Scanoe with a 4 horse. We put 4 people and a dog in it. I have a Shappell SUV sled that we tow with decoys and it frees up a ton of space. You can sink the sled and have a solid surface to stand on/in. I haven't had any issues with the paint sticking. I use Lou Tisch's FME paint. I did have to weld (plastic) the heel because it wore through from dragging it. Otherwise it is a great, stable, managable, not too heavy rig for managed areas. 

Ken


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## windknot (Jul 22, 2001)

I've got a Sportspal 14' square stern Canoe. Rated carrying capacity is 850#. It has the foam sponsons on the sides and will tip, but not turtle (supposedly). 

I tried it with a 4.5hp merc on the back and it was way too heavy with my (now 240# down from 267# frame) big assss in the back. The boat was way too squirrley - even with 250# of ballast up in front to simulate a second person. 

I took the plunge as this will be used for family and friends at the cottage in the off-season and purchased the hydro-dynamic floats/stabilizers from Spring Creek. It was a hefty price, but I REALLY dont want to dump my precious cargo (dog and gun) or my precious cargo (family/young nieces and nephews), so I figured it'd be a worthwhile purchase. 

Even with the 4.5 merc on there, it's rock solid stable. I've since bought a 3 hp gamefisher/tanaka to putt-putt when solo and with so little weight on the back, I feel like I'm floating on air with the pontoons out. 

They're waiting a quick spray of whatever camo color I've got sitting around to make them more "hunty" - am hoping to get the whole New and improved rig out this weekend at shia for an afternoon hunt. 

I can post photos if you're interested in how it looks. 

Sean aka Windknot


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## SHOOTN4FUN (Sep 1, 2006)

Windknot we are about the same size so yes pics would be appreciated. You could email them if it's easier. Thanks Paul


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## warrenwaterfowler (Aug 31, 2007)

Well put windknot, mine are the foam ones, but yeah, the outriggers make the canoe float like a pontoon boat, very stable. I'm 220Lbs, one of my hunting buds is about 300Lbs, plus 18 floater geese and a couple dozen duck decoys, + grass mats for cover, and a thermous of coffeem...we gotta be throwing 900Lbs in there and it's fine...not gonna break any speed records though
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## SHOOTN4FUN (Sep 1, 2006)

Just curious if you hunt bingo areas do you have problems with outriggers getting hung up? My main problem the other day was the wind coming in heard they were 40 + knots and by time motor got started I'd already be in weeds. My ob is in gear at all times and to go in reverse need to do 180 with ob. Wonder if ob with reverse would make for easier operation


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## windknot (Jul 22, 2001)

That's a line from a movie, but I do not recall which one......

I have to admit, my 'toons may be overkill, but years and years ago when I was working as a paramedic, I was involved in a drowning death of a duck hunter who drown after his boat overturned, his waders flooded (How many guys remember to put a wader belt on to stop water from flowing into your waders should you go in the drink?) and he drown. 

Out of respect for the deceased, I'll keep out the specifics, but lets just say he wasn't recovered right away. I was a pretty grizzled veteran at that time and typically nothing bothered me, but that call really got under my skin. A little extra flotation here or there are not only great for handling, when you start putting all the crap into the boats that we do, often it's a recipe for disaster, and therefore a dang good idea. 

Going out to the barn now to snap a couple of quick photos of the boat before I head out on errands.


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## warrenwaterfowler (Aug 31, 2007)

I don't do bingos, but my outriggers slide in so there right up against the side of the canoe...no problem tucking the boat in the cattails, cut corn, brush on shore, etc...
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## warrenwaterfowler (Aug 31, 2007)

There's a good video of how they work on www.sailboatstogo.com. At least, I think it's still there
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## windknot (Jul 22, 2001)

SHOOTN4FUN said:


> Just curious if you hunt bingo areas do you have problems with outriggers getting hung up? My main problem the other day was the wind coming in heard they were 40 + knots and by time motor got started I'd already be in weeds. My ob is in gear at all times and to go in reverse need to do 180 with ob. Wonder if ob with reverse would make for easier operation


Admittedly, I've only had mine out once so far - and that was just a shakedown cruise to make sure I had it right. 

I kept the pontoons out till I got to the corn then first I just slid them up against the boat, but it was just a tiny bit too wide, so I pulled them out and the boat slid right down the corn between rows. 

Reverse is a nice option at a price and a slight increase in weight.


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## windknot (Jul 22, 2001)

OK.....Please disregard the lack of camo on the Universal Receiver Bar and the Stabilizers - I've been trying to find the time. 

Boat is sparse - I washed it out and painted the ribs black last week and apparently didnt get the sides of the ribs very well. (and I'm out of black paint. 

This is the way that the boat looks with the pontoons pulled tight to the gunnels - I understand many people actually just leave them there - it adds just enough additional lateral stability to placate some people. I found on my shake down cruise that WITH the 'toons close to the sides, the boat was just a little TOO WIDE to enter the corn from the end of the rows and pull it up a row without damaging the cover, so I just pulled the 'toons off and put them in the boat. No biggie as you're walking at that point. 

View from the bow back: 










View from the starboard side: 










When the stabilizer is extended to it's FIRST POSITION, this is what they look like (Only one side extended due to horse trailer in the way for the other side). 










I discovered (quite by accident) that if you extend the 'toon to the second or widest position, you can turn the pontoon perpindicular to the boat - I can arrange the boat between the corn so that the 'toons extend way out on either side and makes the boat frighteningly stable - and therefore it will now serve as my dog stand (along with camo to cover the boat). 











You'll notice that the photo with the pontoons extended to their "motoring" width, the height of the 'toon is adjustable up and down. Because I got the "hydrodynamic" pointed hard plastic floats, you can run with the 'toon down in the water and doing this makes the rig ROCK STABLE. 

Also of note, (for SHOOTIN4FUN) you'll notice that the "Universal Receiver" is mounted rear of the centerline of the boat. I did this due to MY SIZE coupled with the size of the 4.5 Merc. Using the Universal Receiver, you can move the floats up or down the gunnel line depending on where you want the floatation/stability. 

Hope this helps - If I get out this weekend, I'll take some "action shots" and give you a better idea of how it handles on the water. 


Sean aka Windknot


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## windknot (Jul 22, 2001)

SHOOTN4FUN said:


> Just curious if you hunt bingo areas do you have problems with outriggers getting hung up? My main problem the other day was the wind coming in heard they were 40 + knots and by time motor got started I'd already be in weeds. My ob is in gear at all times and to go in reverse need to do 180 with ob. Wonder if ob with reverse would make for easier operation


This might be taking the whole thing one step too far, but if you're running into trouble morotoring the boat in the wind and you DO get the outriggers, you can purchase something called a LEEBOARD which acts like a straight rudder. 

And for the record, I do not represent, nor am I employed by the canoe pontoon people, I just researched long and hard before I dropped the ridiculously large coin on the stabilizer system. 

OH....and if you want, you can get WHEELS that snap into the Receiver and you can just ROLL your canoe up the dikes.


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## windknot (Jul 22, 2001)

warrenwaterfowler said:


> There's a good video of how they work on www.sailboatstogo.com. At least, I think it's still there
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This guy is like a dealer for the pontoons - he's got a BUNCH of videos on YouTube showing how everything works. 

Here's a link direct to the company that makes them and sells them too (all the same price without the middleman)

http://store.springcreek.com/Spring-Creek-HD-Canoe-Stabilizers-w-UR-Complete-Package-p1580.html


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## SHOOTN4FUN (Sep 1, 2006)

Thanks so much Sean truly appreciate it. I see they have different lengths what size are yours?

Paul


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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

SHOOTN4FUN said:


> Hey Jonesy is your sportpal square transom or the wide transom(kind of looks like grumann sportboat)?



It's the wide transom.


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## old professor (Oct 26, 2008)

I have the exact same system of Sportspal and Spring Creel outriggers. I love being able to adjust them in or out or slide them out all togather for storage in the canoe. VERY STABLE! I have been using an electric motor but am going to a gasoline motor this year, probably a four or five horse. I purchased the outriggers after watching a hunting partner roll a canoe over by shooting at ninety degrees to the axis of the canoe. won't happen with the outriggers out!


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## PhilBernardi (Sep 6, 2010)

I have a Sportspal 14" and adding those would help tremendously. Thanks for the info.


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## windknot (Jul 22, 2001)

Here's my 14' Sportspal w/tanaka/gamefisher 2.0 hp outboard, my 248#, 2 dozen decoys, gun, Otis the Wonder dog, 30# logging chain I use as ballast/anchor and blind bag. 

Sorry, Otis was pretty much in the way - the video is not very long - if you go this route, get a control handle extender, you REALLY have to bend funnny to reach the throttle: (Click on the link at the top of the empty box and that'll take you to the video) 

[ame="http://s916.photobucket.com/albums/ad7/K9Elvis/?action=view&current=MVI_1407.mp4"]MVI_1407.mp4 video by K9Elvis - Photobucket[/ame]


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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

I think you can eliminate the need for the out-riggers by just getting the 14 or 16 foot transom model. I can stand up in mine and there is no need for the out-riggers. Plus its one less thing to goof with. I've had mine full of gear with 2 guys and a dog and its worked great.


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## SHOOTN4FUN (Sep 1, 2006)

What's the difference between sportpal and raddison? 

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## jonesy16 (Sep 19, 2011)

http://www.castlecraft.com/faq_sportspal.htm


Look at the 10th question down the page.


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## Socks (Jan 8, 2007)

Thanks guys for the review. I'd found those outriggers online but wasn't sure about them and didn't want to buy them without knowing more 
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## SHOOTN4FUN (Sep 1, 2006)

I plan on ordering outriggers and wheels 

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## Mr. 16 gauge (Jan 26, 2000)

Any issues with the Raddison/sportspal line as far as ice is considered?


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## Puddler-Hunter (Aug 25, 2010)

Mr. 16 gauge said:


> Any issues with the Raddison/sportspal line as far as ice is considered?


 
Fred.......just get a Grumman Sportboat like I did and you wouldn't have to ask these questions :evilsmile and you definately wouldn't need the outriggers.


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## SHOOTN4FUN (Sep 1, 2006)

Wish I could find sportboat but they go fast when posted


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## Puddler-Hunter (Aug 25, 2010)

SHOOTN4FUN said:


> Wish I could find sportboat but they go fast when posted


Yes they do I knew I wanted one and didn't have to wait too long before I found it I was lucky but you just have to be patient.They'll show up on Craigslist and when they do jump on them because they sell fast (obviously there's a reason why) .....it's a duck hunting machine. I found mine in the spring and I actually found two of them. One was a early to mid 70's model seller was four hrs. south in Ohio near Cincinnati, the other was four hours north and was a 1984 model. Ohio seller wanted $1100 got him down to only $1000 covered gas costs. Seller up north wanted $800 and I didn't even hassle her with price. She posted the add only a couple days before I found it and a week later it was on top of my car. It's turning out to be a great duck boat. They are a little heavier than the Radisson/Sportspal's but a much thicker skin. I power it with a 4hp evinrude and it pushes it well. I had myself, Mr. 16 Gauge (Fred), over three dozen decoys, guns, and our blind bags in it this past thursday and it tracked better than I expected with all that weight without the need for stabilizers (very stable boat) and it still had room for more weight if we had it. Over 500 pounds between the two of us alone minus gear.


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