# Flares



## finlander (Jan 11, 2007)

needed in the Big Lake outnfrom shore? Inside pier heads, channel still need them?


----------



## zfishman (Dec 21, 2008)

All vessels operating between sunrise and sunset need nighttime signals. During day vessels less than 16’ don’t need them. Also rules on sailboats and non motorized but I assumed that was not your interest .


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Visual distress signals (VDSs) allow vessel operators to signal for help in the event of an emergency. VDSs are classified as day signals (visible in bright sunlight), night signals (visible at night), or both day and night signals. VDSs are either pyrotechnic (smoke and flames) or non-pyrotechnic (non-combustible).

Vessels on federally controlled waters, such as the Great Lakes, must be equipped with VDSs that are USCG–approved, in serviceable condition, and readily accessible.


All vessels, regardless of length or type, are required to carry night signals when operating between sunset and sunrise.
Most vessels must carry day signals also; exceptions to the requirement for day signals are:
Recreational vessels less than 16 feet in length
Non-motorized open sailboats that are less than 26 feet in length
Manually propelled vessels

If pyrotechnic VDSs are used, they must be dated. Expired VDSs may be carried on board, but a minimum of three unexpired VDSs must be carried in the vessel.

An example of VDSs that could be carried on board to satisfy USCG requirements is one handheld orange smoke signal (day), two floating orange smoke signals (day), and one electric light (night only).

It is prohibited to display VDSs while on the water unless assistance is required to prevent immediate or potential danger to persons on board.

https://www.boat-ed.com/michigan/handbook/page/35/Visual-Distress-Signals-VDSs/


----------



## Slimits (Jun 30, 2014)

Just buy the beacon and never buy flares again


----------



## Myler (Jan 31, 2012)

Slimits said:


> Just buy the beacon and never buy flares again


On sale at Northwoods right now for 69.99.


----------



## Dreamchaser (Jun 20, 2016)

Slimits said:


> Just buy the beacon and never buy flares again


 What is this “Beacon” you speak of?
Can you attach a link?


----------



## Jiw275 (Jan 1, 2015)

Dreamchaser said:


> What is this “Beacon” you speak of?
> Can you attach a link?












Weems & Path


----------



## Hose Puller (Nov 20, 2009)

So am I understanding that these electronic beacons are now allowable in place of flares?

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## BryPaulD (May 30, 2009)

Hose Puller said:


> So am I understanding that these electronic beacons are now allowable in place of flares?
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


You can still buy/use flares, but the beacon is USCG approved so you don’t have to buy/use flares.. I just purchased one but I will have flares (perhaps expired date) on board as well .. And not get a ticket 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Scadsobees (Sep 21, 2006)

I can't answer your "inside the breakwater" question, other than mention that for the sake of the DNR, the Great Lakes count all the away to the shore line regardless of the breakwaters. I don't know what the Coast Guard considers.


----------



## Jiw275 (Jan 1, 2015)

ALao lakes connected to the Great Lakes.


----------



## jpmarko (Feb 26, 2010)

Jiw275 said:


> View attachment 395879
> 
> 
> Weems & Path


I’ll have to try one of these out.


----------



## wpmisport (Feb 9, 2010)

DecoySlayer said:


> Most vessels must carry day signals also; exceptions to the requirement for day signals are:
> 
> Recreational vessels less than 16 feet in length


I have a 15 1/2 foot boat. Does it not seem like you would be the most vulnerable boat on the water when a 30 foot cabin cruiser is coming at you with no one in control, autopilot. The law may have more to do with what you can afford.


----------



## Hear fishy fishy (Feb 9, 2013)

These are a good idea to have on the boat anyway. Phones go dead and get wet. Marine radios can fail. You can’t just get out and walk home. I was on a buddy’s boat once and the main motor quit, he had forgot his hand held that day, along with tools spare plugs. Several boats went by us but none stoped. We had offshore winds for the dock. We used the electric motor to get us close enough to shore we could touch before the batteries went dead. In the spring time the water was really cold. We final got some one to bring us back to the dock but stituations like these make you not care about the few dollars for flares and save the old ones. Some guys take an old one and makesure they know how to use them instead of waiting till they might need them to figure it out. I even put one in the ice shanty for when I go in Saginaw bay just incase something bad happens.


----------



## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

wpmisport said:


> I have a 15 1/2 foot boat. Does it not seem like you would be the most vulnerable boat on the water when a 30 foot cabin cruiser is coming at you with no one in control, autopilot. The law may have more to do with what you can afford.



I just posted the guide, you are more than welcome to do what ever you wish. I carry flares, a flag, air horn, secondary means of propulsion, at least one anchor, a throwable on a line, etc.


----------



## skamaniac (Nov 4, 2001)

How about one of these? Are these considered night time distress?


----------



## sullyxlh (Oct 28, 2004)

Hose Puller said:


> So am I understanding that these electronic beacons are now allowable in place of flares?


Why do people get so hung up on thinking they need flares to be legal?

The flare issue comes up often around here and it really puts into perspective on how many out there are operating a boat and are clueless on the laws..


----------



## skamaniac (Nov 4, 2001)

skamaniac said:


> View attachment 398965
> 
> 
> How about one of these? Are these considered night time distress?


So I found out that this does not qualify, it is for personal use on your PFD. It doesn't flash a continuous SOS which is required.


----------



## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

sullyxlh said:


> Why do people get so hung up on thinking they need flares to be legal?
> 
> The flare issue comes up often around here and it really puts into perspective on how many out there are operating a boat and are clueless on the laws..


Signaling devices are required on Great Lakes, and connecting, waters. Some signaling devices, such as signal flags, are not "legal" during night time hours. 

We could use a "sticky" with the link to the boater safety equipment guide. It is amazing how many times the same questions are asked. 

https://www.usps.org/national/vsc/conductvsc_files/USCGMinReq_2012.pdf


----------



## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

I am not 100% clear on whether, or not, the electronic signaling devices are "legal" during daylight hours. I believe that they are not, that a flag, or other "legal" device, is required during daylight hours. I will ask the coast guard aux people when I get my inspection done this coming weekend.
_
"LED flare flashes *ONLY* the SOS light sequence

When combined with a daytime distress signal flag (included in package),this electric flare meets *ALL *USCG Federal Requirements for DAY and NIGHT use in lieu of traditional flares"_

https://siriussignal.com/


----------



## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

This article makes it more clear, it is not an advertisement. Boats under 16' are not required to have daylight signaling devices. 


"_Recreational boats less than 16' operating in coastal waters need only carry night signaling devices when operated at night. All other boats must carry both night and day signaling devices."_
_
"The following details a combination of devices which can be carried in order to meet the requirements:
_

_Three hand-held red flares (day and night). Flares must be under 42 months of age._
_One electric distress light (night only)._
_One hand-held red flare and two parachute flares (day and night). One hand-held orange smoke signal, two floating orange smoke signals (day) and one electric distress light (night only). Flares must be under 42 months of age."_







https://www.boatus.org/study-guide/equipment/vds/


----------



## UBDSLO1 (Feb 23, 2004)

From my understanding, there is only (1) electronic flare that is approved by the USCG.


----------



## perchjerker (Feb 8, 2002)

DecoySlayer said:


> I am not 100% clear on whether, or not, the electronic signaling devices are "legal" during daylight hours. I believe that they are not, that a flag, or other "legal" device, is required during daylight hours. I will ask the coast guard aux people when I get my inspection done this coming weekend.
> _
> "LED flare flashes *ONLY* the SOS light sequence
> 
> ...


I have one of those electronic flares

you are correct they are not for use in the daytime. When you buy one it includes the orange flag which is for daytime use


----------



## Slimits (Jun 30, 2014)

perchjerker said:


> I have one of those electronic flares
> 
> you are correct they are not for use in the daytime. When you buy one it includes the orange flag which is for daytime use


But u only need to have the flag in the package. That is it,u dont have to have it attached to anything.


----------



## perchjerker (Feb 8, 2002)

I didnt say you did just that it comes with it when you buy it


----------



## Slimits (Jun 30, 2014)

Im excited sbout the change. Buying flares sucks and they always expired halfway through season. Way too pricey for what they are. I hope them flare companies loss their butt on flare sales now. Payback for all the price gouging


----------



## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Flares would be more effective, during daylight hours than a flag would. 

A GOOD radio, not a handheld, with a GOOD antenna, is still your best bet.


----------



## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

DecoySlayer said:


> Flares would be more effective, during daylight hours than a flag would.
> 
> A GOOD radio, not a handheld, with a GOOD antenna, is still your best bet.


Unless your battery is dead or on fire?


----------



## kroppe (May 7, 2000)

Sticky: https://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/threads/uscg-safety-equipment.560174/


----------



## Hose Puller (Nov 20, 2009)

sullyxlh said:


> Why do people get so hung up on thinking they need flares to be legal?
> 
> The flare issue comes up often around here and it really puts into perspective on how many out there are operating a boat and are clueless on the laws..


You do need flares to be legal. I spend $40 every 3-4 years to purchase up to date flares. I have approximately 20 flares in my boat at this time. All but 4 of them are out of date. I was simply asking if I could buy this strobe in place of flares to avoid spending $40 every couple of years. If it is legal to carry in place of flares, it seems like a good investment.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


----------



## awfulpotent (Oct 14, 2003)

Great tool but i would never go offshore without flares if you are in distress 5 miles out in a big chop chances are nobody will see the strobe fire a couple flares and most likely help is on the way


----------



## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

6Speed said:


> Unless your battery is dead or on fire?



Barring goofy stuff like that, the radio is the best bet. Why would you burn your battery?


----------



## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

DecoySlayer said:


> Barring goofy stuff like that, the radio is the best bet. Why would you burn your battery?


Stupid question...try again. Batteries fail all the time and that's the reason for the flares...duh


----------



## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

6Speed said:


> Stupid question...try again. Batteries fail all the time and that's the reason for the flares...duh



LOL! I have yet to have a battery go dead on me, knock on wood. I have never had one catch fire, knock on wood. I have never had 3 batteries go dead on the same day. 

My car, yes, have had them go dead, never a boat. 

I carry flares in case everything fails. That is why I have SO many expired flares.


----------



## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

Whatever dude. You sure like to stir things up here huh DS.

A loss of your electrical system means your bilge pump, radios and more importantly your tunes quit. The live well also goes out. It could be the batteries fuses or a bad wire Flares, PFDs and all the other stuff is important if you wanna live, that's why they're required. There's a reason for this safety stuff. A back up compass is a good idea too?


----------



## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

6Speed said:


> Whatever dude. You sure like to stir things up here huh DS.
> 
> A loss of your electrical system means your bilge pump, radios and more importantly your tunes quit. The live well also goes out. Flares, PFDs and all the other stuff is important if you wanna live, that's why they're required. There's a reason for this safety stuff. A back up compass is a good idea too?



I don't have "tunes" on my boat. I don't want to tax the battery more than is needed. 

I have 100% of the emergency equipment required, and then some. I have a compass, and know how to use it. 

I have been sort of lucky. I have never had a battery fail. I replace them often, so they don't go bad. Maintain them as they should be taken care of. There are 3 on my boat. IF I lost the starter, I would shut down the trolling motor, pull out a battery, and hook it up to the boat. 

I hope I never need the flares, I do have 12 on board, 4 legal, 8 backup, expired. 

So far, I have never needed flares. I hope I never do.


----------



## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

...so what's your point here?


----------



## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

Buy flares, have everything else you need, take care of everything, don't mistreat your batteries, buy good batteries, not the cheapest, and you will likely end up with a LOT of expired flares. 

Don't forget an anchor and at least 100' of line.


----------



## 6Speed (Mar 8, 2013)

LOL, this is funny. I guess I missed something. My current set of flares expire in 2020, I check them every year. I also keep military style electronic signaling devices on my boat just in case. Two anchors in case I loose one and I always keep plenty of ice in the RTIC cooler so the beer doesn't get warm..then there's bait in the cooler and on the aireator...


----------



## DecoySlayer (Mar 12, 2016)

6Speed said:


> LOL, this is funny. I guess I missed something. My current set of flares expire in 2020, I check them every year. I also keep military style electronic signaling devices on my boat just in case. Two anchors in case I loose one and I always keep plenty of ice in the RTIC cooler so the beer doesn't get warm..then there's bait in the cooler and on the aireator...



Yeah, I have a signal flag, and a mirror, in addition to my flares. I have whistles and an air horn.


----------

