# crappy report on make believe river!



## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

> _Originally posted by hoffie1 _
> *shoeman
> 
> How do you figure it helps everyone?I dont fish the trout waters anyways but others do.
> ...


I guess that's why you don't understand.

I mean that in a nice way.


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

I don't understand how this affects outtings. You go to the outting page, say your planning an outting on the PM or where ever and continue to make plans as has always been the case.

The new policy states that no rivers will be named in REPORTS...it doesn't say anything about not planning outtings or discussing environmental issues. It also encourages the sharing of info. techniques, pics, ect.


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## unregistered55 (Mar 12, 2000)

Wow I stay off the internet for a few days and come back and everything is new! 

As far as this new policy, being an ex-moderator I can definately see how this came about. We had so many people complaining about naming rivers and such it was a headache in itself. Not to mention that we must all admit, ANYONE could just type in www.michigan-sportsman.com and get info on how to when to AND where to fish or learn a new fishing type if they wanted to. 

The phrase "10% of all the fishermen catch 90% of all the fish" has some merit to it. But believe it or not, posting on the rivers and strectches and such along with how-to's can quicky, in this day of internet fishing reports make that ratio go up quickly. 

In my opinion, nameing a river and especially a certain stretch is much like if you caught a ton of salmon in lake michigan and posted the GPS Numbers. All of a sudden come saturday it would be a circus out there and forget your good spot. The only problem is with Rivers there are only so many and they get over crowded quickly, with lake michigan you have TONS of open water plus all of lake huron and the other great lakes. 

At 1st I was alittle upset Steve didn't allow posting of the bigger rivers, but then I thought how quickly even the bigger rivers get over crowded and decided I agree with Steve. 

It's a BIG change that was bound to happen with the growth of our site, and everyone will get used to it and it should be fine. Besides I have had many people not post the river in the past and they have had no problem telling me in a PM...and I will continue to share any info requested by me in a PM as long as the problem of posting a report and some nice pics doesn't flood my PM box! If that starts to happen then I am not sure if it will be fun to come on here anymore with PM boxes popping up all over the screen!

In closing I say I feel this is a good step to the future of internet reports, it is just a drastic step that will take some getting used to!


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## mickey (Sep 25, 2000)

> Mickey I just saw the other thread last nite after posting on this one and your one of the ones I'm talking about!


 



> How do you figure it helps everyone?I dont fish the trout waters anyways but others do.


 So, let's see. You don't understand. Well, when you start trout fishing, let me know. Then maybe your opinion on the matter will have merit. Sometimes I just assume that the people responding have a clue...

As far as outings, I think TC summed it up quite nice.


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## jpollman (Jan 14, 2001)

So, because I'm not a "river fisherman" I don't have a clue ?

Well I have an opinion which I am entitled to. I completely understand not revealing a SPECIFIC HOLE or SECTION OF RIVER. But that's a little different than just naming the river itself !

This is Steves site and he can run it in the way that he sees fit. But in my opinion a report that just tells you how many fish you caught in Northwest Michigan is almost completely USELESS. If this is the way it's going to be I feel that the site has pretty much reached its peak of usefullness and growth. That's sad. 

I guess then if my "scum frog reports" are useless then I'll just keep them to myself. I'm done with ANY fishing reports from now on because I wouldn't want to tick anyone off.


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## Brian S (Apr 5, 2002)

So is it the resource we are concerned about or overcrowding?

If its overcrowding, then maybe this new policy should be added to the ice fishing forum too.

With the limited access and parking on many lakes, one positive report can send, who knows, maybe thousands of anglers there. I could end up spending half the day looking for a place to park.


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## Lunker (Aug 27, 2001)

Want to know what the worst part of this is ? Even Fred Trost gives river fishing reports. Sad


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## Brian S (Apr 5, 2002)

You're right Lunker, and it probably gets a lot more "views"


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## unregistered55 (Mar 12, 2000)

> _Originally posted by jpollman _
> *So, because I'm not a "river fisherman" I don't have a clue ?
> 
> Well I have an opinion which I am entitled to. I completely understand not revealing a SPECIFIC HOLE or SECTION OF RIVER. But that's a little different than just naming the river itself ! *



Sorry guys I have to agree with Mickey...until you are a river fisherman and see a report on a river you fish and go there the next day and have it shoulder to shoulder with people then you don't have a clue. Not meaning to slam anyone, it's just true!


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

And his reports are generated by the generic DNR hotline which is about a week behind. So, they're actually about as usefull as a third thumb.


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## unregistered55 (Mar 12, 2000)

> _Originally posted by jpollman _
> *This is Steves site and he can run it in the way that he sees fit. But in my opinion a report that just tells you how many fish you caught in Northwest Michigan is almost completely USELESS. If this is the way it's going to be I feel that the site has pretty much reached its peak of usefullness and growth. That's sad. *


Also again...no clue! If someone reports that the Salmon Run is on and they went 5-10 on a NW rivers that is very useful...I know the fish will be there and it's time to plan my trip...


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

> _Originally posted by Lunker _
> *Want to know what the worst part of this is ? Even Fred Trost gives river fishing reports. Sad *


Yep. I think we should all start letter writing campaigns to all the media outlets that are "too specific" in their fishing reports and tell them to stop. Lets start with the Detroit News and Free Press, they mentioned a few large west side rivers last week. Once we get them to see the light, we can move on to the Grand Rapids Press and other smaller papers. Don't forget the sporting magazines such as In-Fisherman, Outdoor Life, etc. that all mention our delicate waters too. Geez maybe we CAN reform everyone, and teach them all to keep these secrets secret.


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## mickey (Sep 25, 2000)

Also, many of us are willing to share techniques, lures, flies, etc. I wouldn't call them useless cause you do not know where they are. It helps to know where the fish are and what to use. Heck yeah, if I heard the MW fish were on, I would pick a river I knew up there. Or, I would PM someone to see if I am in the general right direction. You could take any descriptive on how to fish and apply it to just about any western river right now....whats the big deal!?!?

Jpollman,.
My point with the scum frog thing was not to "get you" but to point out that there are places you do not like to mention either. Does that make your reports bad? No way... The technique of scum frogging is useful to many (including me) but you didnt mention where you were. Why is this different? You were the first one to use the term lake X. 

River spots are places in the woods (in most cases). Nobody on any of these posts has even begun to explain why giving up brook trout spots is not ok, or deer hunting spots, or morel spots....but trout fishing is alright (and SHOULD be by your standards of a good report) to post spots. SOMEBODY explain to me the difference....

When somebody posts a pic of a 10 pt. they shot this fall, I do not see others saying, "Quit bragging". Whats the difference?!?!

p.s. This is my FINAL post on the subject. Steve made the right move (responsible). The rest of this threads is just more cry baby business you fellas started the thread with.


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## Wellston (Dec 28, 2000)

"Let's not blow this out of proportion"
I agree with that post. I like the new policy.
Jim


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## unregistered55 (Mar 12, 2000)

> _Originally posted by mickey _
> *The rest of this threads is just more cry baby business you fellas started the thread with. *


Hey Mr. Mickey! I was the one who started this thread cause no one posted on NW Rivers in a few days and I wanted to see if we all were just too busy to fish! It was a weird few days not seeing any posts on the NW forum! Man, I opened a can of worms and I wasn't even fishing! 

Really though, the new posting system is for the best, I just hope I don't slip and name a river when I post...It is gonna take some getting used to for all of us!


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## bigbucksstop (Dec 29, 2002)

if your gonna !itch about posting a report you might just as well take up bass fishing because if you still can't catch a fish in the river there is alot more lake to try.


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## ice fishin nut (Feb 3, 2003)

Un-Freakin Believeable!!!!!!

I dont river fish for salmonoid species, but do read what others have posted!~! I was under the impression that this was a site for people to GIVE and GET info!!!!! 

Yesterday, after seeing what Steve was doing, I made a reply that it was "too bad that things had to get to this" or something along those lines...... My reply was deleted and the thread closed..... Personally, I was'nt to pleased about this, but it's not my site.

It appears that in this thread that, that if you dont religiously fish for "Cold Water" species, your a red headed stepchild!!!!!

That's *SAD* !!!!!!

I have had my fights and bickering on this site, as well as alot of others. But when it comes to the owner of the site having to break in to stop the moaning and whining by limiting what can be posted, thats *Pathetic!!!!* 

I dont agree with alot of the "moderating" but when people get slammed because ""I'm not a river fisherman and don't read a lot of the river reports.""
That is totally WRONG!!!!

If river fishermen/women are that elite, and feel that the rivers and creeks in the state of Michigan are *"THEIRS"*, then why did/do I buy an all species license from the state of *MICHIGAN??????* 

Sorry to vent, but this is even more childish than the arguments that I get into with my 15 year old daughter!!!!


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## Fishcapades (Mar 18, 2003)

Amen Ice Fishin Nut


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Evolution of a web site. 
Very interesting. 
What will become of it??

Maybe the crystal ball will tell me


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

And again, I'll say: Is it the river name that's important or is it the adventures and information contained within a post? Whether I say I was fishing in Lollipop Creek or rather a SW trib, the information supplied is applicable to ALL tribs that recieve anadromous fish. Either way, most of us ceased mentioning river names long ago...most of you thought Splitshot was a diety when it came to posting reports, and guess what? Rarely if ever did he mention a river name! Did you miss out on any information because of that?


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## hoffie1 (Dec 31, 2001)

A good decision for you sure.As said before I could care less about trout/salmon reports but many others on these boards do care.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Paul,

I'll help you understand. If someone would post on your shorefishing spots on a continual basis, would you advocate it?  

Yipes.....

KF, I have yet to see you put a name in any of your reports.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Darn it Shoeman, quit making sense, your confusing everyone.


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## Steely-Head (Dec 2, 2001)

Cut/Paste to cover all three discussions on the topic:

The problem with encouraging discrection is that you can encourage all you want but all it takes is a few people to overlook it and say "River X is loaded with steelhead so everyone get some of the good action!"

I understand both sides of this issue, and I realize I have not been fishing rivers nearly long enough to understand completely the effects that posting may have on the resource. Some of you that seem to be lifelong river fishermen (TSS, Shoeman, Thousandcasts) have most likey seen things I havent seen, like a hole that was once secret being dragged into the public eye by forums such as these. However, I still just cant see that a report from Tippy Dam or Sixth Street or Croton Dam is going to change the pressure at those already heavily pressured places. I have said many times that I am in complete favor of keeping smaller rivers and tribs off limits and specific holes on ANY river off limits, but a Sixth Street report? Come on now.


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## kingfisher2 (Mar 22, 2001)

You are correct Ralf.....BUT, as you know, I have received several PM's about posting reports because those reading can "generalize"..............what steam and/or river I am fishing...

This whole thread needs to be summed up with.....we all need to use common sense on our posts.......leave out the river name, identify your results and move on..enough said.

Marc


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

I see both sides

Sure all of us want to read reports, see pics and hear about what's working. There's nothing wrong with it and it's human nature to gather that type of info.
In most posts, a little "reading between the lines" does offer that info without revealing which rock I was standing on when I hooked that 6 pound hen.

This being said, I hope we can come to a peaceful conclusion on this matter. I'm sure all the moderators are quite busy as we discuss this. 

Me, I had enough for while. I'm gonna head back to that flydunkin' site for a little R&R


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by thousandcasts _
> *No offense, man, but ..............
> What this has to do with is the over all experience where catching is on the lower end of the priority list...at least for some of us. This whole discussion centers on the banks, the water, the trees, ect.
> 
> ...


Just for the sake of argument, you are saying, that the majority of the people on these threads are like the ones you described at the places above??? 
My deepest apologies, but I, for one, take offensive to that.
Maybe I souldn't take it so literal, but it's hard not too.

I'd also like the money used for Skam plants subratcted from the price of my licenses because I haven't fished for them.

Everyone pays for the resources, if you pay taxes and buy licenses, but you should be kept in the dark as to how to enjoy them. IMO far far from the true meaning of sportsmanship.

I had hoped to learn some of these things through some of the people here, I somewhat now feel maybe I'm better offf not knowing.


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

Oh for crying out loud...like I said, most of you don't get it, which is fine-I respect that, but it's pointless to continue trying to debate this when all your looking for is a reason to be offended.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

I meant no ill will, and admitted to taking things in a literal sense. The statement about the license fees was really a stretch, because I've never had kids, but pay taxes for everyone elses. I just wish the majority made better use of it  

It's a good debate and I'm sorry I interjected. I'll bite my lip and be good.


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## unregistered55 (Mar 12, 2000)

> _Originally posted by ESOX _
> * I see that my question regarding the protection of self propagating indigenous populations has been quietly ignored by everyone clamoring to save some planted non indigenous fish. *


Paul...I would answer you but I don't know them big words...LOL. Really though...I don't think it's about us not wanting everyone to enjoy catching the trout, it's about the rivers becoming so over-crowded that they are not fun to fish anymore. If everyone sees a post on here that, say the Pere Marquette got a HUGE run of Steelies on a Wednesday, MANY will head there on Friday and it will be a zoo. Worst of all, think of the person who might have just ONE weekend off to fish for Steelhead in the spring, planned his trip for months for that weekend only to find a circus going on. It's not like waiting in line at a boat lauch for say Lake St. Clair. Once you get on the water you have a TON of lake to go on and get away from people. Sure, it sucks when you have to wait an hour to launch your boat, but when you have to wait an hour to launch a boat AND there is only a river up to 30 feet wide with that many boats it quicky becomes a very bad fishing experience. If not posting names on the internet helps that, and it does...then it's a good thing. I have refrained from naming rivers for the past 6 months or so, and you know what? I have only heard good things about my posts and if some PM's me I share the river with them. 

So, you see, maybe this is coming across wrong. It's not a shortage of FISH...it's a shortage of SPACE to Fish for the most part...


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## thousandcasts (Jan 22, 2002)

Freepop, No ill will here.


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## Steve (Jan 15, 2000)

I think this debate has reached the end of it's useful life. Save it for when we unveil our next river posting policy beta version 2


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## Whit1 (Apr 27, 2001)

> _Originally posted by STEINFISHSKI _
> *If we decide to have an outing on an unnamed river, how will we find it? *


ROTFLMAO!!!!!

Tim,
It's 4:22AM! Thanks for the huge chuckle. Please, I mean no offense to anyone on anyside of this issue. Tim's comment really got me laughing.


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