# Puddle/Layout boats



## GVSUKUSH (Mar 9, 2004)

Mike L said:


> How about the otter ? I've given some serious thought about this boat.
> It's in your price range, and with the right model you could hunt two if need be. Food for thought ........
> 
> http://www.otteroutdoors.com/duckboats.htm


Thanks Mike, forgot all about the Otter.

I'll keep the Phantom model in mind.


----------



## Bow Hunter Brandon (Jan 15, 2003)

GVSUKUSH said:


> Thanks Mike, forgot all about the Otter.
> 
> I'll keep the Phantom model in mind.



Nothing against the otter but the phantom is not a overly stable craft. I wouldnt put it in water over my head from what I have READ.

Branta thoughts???


----------



## GVSUKUSH (Mar 9, 2004)

Bow Hunter Brandon said:


> Nothing against the otter but the phantom is not a overly stable craft. I wouldnt put it in water over my head from what I have READ.
> 
> Branta thoughts???


Brandon, thanks for the input, I'm looking for the lightest, most stable boat that I can slap on top of my pontiac vibe. 

I'm impressed by this model, watch the videos-

http://www.fourriverslayoutboats.com/VIDEO PAGE.htm


----------



## Q2shooter (Feb 11, 2005)

Bow Hunter Brandon said:


> Nothing against the otter but the phantom is not a overly stable craft. I wouldnt put it in water over my head from what I have READ.


I can vouch for that....I used one most of the season. The mfg claims the boat to weight only 55lbs, felt more like 155lbs as it was difficult to carry. It wasn't so much about the stability while gunning it was its ability to handle any chop.


----------



## BFG (Mar 4, 2005)

Therein lies the trade-off with these craft....

More stable = Heavier

I'd be afraid to take any of those out on any water with chop....a 1' chop will come right over the front. 

I'd get the widest, lightest one that you can for marshes...otherwise, get something that will take some water...

BFG


----------



## casey7 (Dec 29, 2003)

i'm confused, I've had a boat very similar to the ones you guys are discussing for sale in the classifieds for the last 6 mo. if any one is interested, call me.. we'll talk..:help:


----------



## GVSUKUSH (Mar 9, 2004)

casey7 said:


> i'm confused, I've had a boat very similar to the ones you guys are discussing for sale in the classifieds for the last 6 mo. if any one is interested, call me.. we'll talk..:help:


does that have a built in trolling motor? How heavy?


----------



## casey7 (Dec 29, 2003)

Has a 3/4 hp electric, three blade prop, forward and reverse, three speeds...look at the pics in my add.... weight 60# plus


----------



## thedude (Jul 20, 2004)

i'm gonna build a rowable, motorizable layout boat this summer - mostly out of foam. it will be somewhat of a hybrid between an mlb and a wigeon. getting the waterline right will be the trick. but should be fun.


----------



## BFG (Mar 4, 2005)

Dude,

And while you are at it....make me one too (make the waterline a little higher for me....I'm a BFG) :lol: 


BFG


----------



## Swamp Boss (Mar 14, 2003)

Kush I have the 1 man 4 Rivers boat that i purchased used for $300 and use it as a marsh and layout boat on Sag. Bay. It will handle some decent size waves 2-3 footers w/o a stability problem but you will get beat up inside. I created a conduit cage to mount grass mats on for sparse cover and it looks like a muskrat house. I also mounted some oar locks and it will move out pretty well using them. I think the thing is impossible to tip. 

Only problems I see is if you are fairly large the opening may be a limiting factor. It weighs close to #100 and I have to drag it over sand bars from 25 -75 yards-tough but manageable. 

I like mine and would recommend one for the use you described.
PM me w/any questions.


----------



## Buck Shot (Jan 20, 2005)

I have hunted flooded fields and shallow wetlands with the largest 4 Rivers layout for about 5 years now. This is a great layout boat. I usually pushpole the boat but you can also use a trolling motor or small mud motor. Three sheets of Fast Grass are all you need to camo the boat. I would not use this boat on big open water or big rivers. If you are going with the Four Rivers go with the bigger boat. They call it two man but it is really just right for one person.


----------



## GVSUKUSH (Mar 9, 2004)

Thanks everyone!


----------



## Duece22 (Mar 30, 2004)

Kush this boat would be perfect for you because you have me and my boat for any bigger water. We just have to get our schedules straight in the fall so we can get out for a few trips. And plan on it this summer running some areas west of town to scout and maybe wet a line.
Jr


----------



## Nitro2 (Nov 2, 2005)

Kush-

I have a boat that I bought at Gander about 12 years ago that sounds like your uncle's (sorry, I'm not selling it). 14' long, the cockpit is 102" x 24" and I have used it on the bay as well as inside the managed areas. The best feature of the boat is the holes through the front and rear decks - you can drive a pole through these to stabilize the boat.

I bought this specifically to use on the bay back when the water was higher. I would pole it out through 1/2 mile of reeds and set on the edge of open water (2-4 feet depending on the wind). Covered in cattails, it was lethal on the divers.

Since the water dropped a few years ago, I have not had it out because I didn't want to drag it that far. Like you, I noticed that the divers are 100 yards out and in shallow water. I found a spot to launch it late this fall, and I've been making plans to bring it back from my hunting property up north.

I have no qualms amout taking it out into 2' of water in 2' chop as a layout rig. It's also light enough if you have to drag it across the mud flats when the water blows out.

One thing you might want to consider on the 4 Rivers is to keep the pointed end pointed up wind when layout hunting. Although you're shoting over your motor, the waves aren't slapping/spraying off of the flat back end.


----------



## Nitro2 (Nov 2, 2005)

PS - my boat is basically a Carsten's Pintail without the oarlocks, the seat or the handles on the decks. You can look at them on Carstens website or Cabelas sells them.


----------



## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

Go with the Otter. My dad has the Otter Stealth, you won't find a more stable boat. I don't know for sure, but I'd assume the Phantom has the same basic hull design. As far as weight,, eeehhh, its a lil' heavy, one person could handle it, 2 would be better. The Stealth you can stand up in,, no problem, the boat doesn't even rock, even when you shoot. We just took his out over the late 2 day season, its an awesome little rig.


----------



## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

GVSUKUSH said:


> I have a place on Saginaw bay where the water is only 2-3 foot deep for 100's of yards out there, but alot of times that's where the birds trade back and forth all day. Instead of sitting in the reeds where I don't have consistant shooting and is very wind dependant, I want to get one of these to get me in the flight path so to speak. Alot cheaper than a jon boat too.
> 
> With the shallow water I'd feal confident with such a small boat, obviously I'd watch the weather. I think it'd be a great small lake boat as well as a great river boat, it'd sure make my hunting alot more versitle.


GVSUKUSH-
Since I know for a fact that you're talking about areas that I often hunt up along the west side of the bay  , I have a bit of advice. Hunting directly out of any of those boats similar to the otter will be tough out there in the big water, but not because it's dangerous in that shallow water, but because you're gonna get soaked. Trust me, over the years we've tried a lot of different combinations, including a friend's otter, and even small waves will break over a boat like that and you'll be getting soaked. My opinion...hunting directly out of those things only works well in completely flat water, or areas secluded from the wind, like in a managed area corn strip. You'd be better off out on the bay just sitting on a bucket or T-seat right in the middle of your deke spread. Some guys put a few oversized Goose floaters in their spread, then sit on a T-seat by the geese to break their silouette up. We often use canoes up there for a couple of reasons...they go in some real shallow areas, and the ones we have carry a lot of gear. But we don't hunt directly out of the canoes...we just use them as "barges" for us and our gear. We've made some small portable blinds out of fencing and pvc pipe, and covered with fast-grass or natural materials. Then we go out into these open areas, set up our blinds and dekes, or sit on T-seats, then take the canoe a 1/2 mile off or so and anchor it. This works pretty well. Especially for the divers. Plus a canoe is real versatile, and can be used for a lot of things...an otter can't. 

Like I said, laying in one of those otters or similar boats will be a wet proposition and you might as well just sit on a bucket in your spread. My two cents....


----------



## GVSUKUSH (Mar 9, 2004)

just ducky said:


> GVSUKUSH-
> Since I know for a fact that you're talking about areas that I often hunt up along the west side of the bay  , I have a bit of advice. Hunting directly out of any of those boats similar to the otter will be tough out there in the big water, but not because it's dangerous in that shallow water, but because you're gonna get soaked. Trust me, over the years we've tried a lot of different combinations, including a friend's otter, and even small waves will break over a boat like that and you'll be getting soaked. My opinion...hunting directly out of those things only works well in completely flat water, or areas secluded from the wind, like in a managed area corn strip. You'd be better off out on the bay just sitting on a bucket or T-seat right in the middle of your deke spread. Some guys put a few oversized Goose floaters in their spread, then sit on a T-seat by the geese to break their silouette up. We often use canoes up there for a couple of reasons...they go in some real shallow areas, and the ones we have carry a lot of gear. But we don't hunt directly out of the canoes...we just use them as "barges" for us and our gear. We've made some small portable blinds out of fencing and pvc pipe, and covered with fast-grass or natural materials. Then we go out into these open areas, set up our blinds and dekes, or sit on T-seats, then take the canoe a 1/2 mile off or so and anchor it. This works pretty well. Especially for the divers. Plus a canoe is real versatile, and can be used for a lot of things...an otter can't.
> 
> Like I said, laying in one of those otters or similar boats will be a wet proposition and you might as well just sit on a bucket in your spread. My two cents....


I know what your saying. The spot I hunt on the bay, i'd only need a boat when the wind is negligable anyway, when the winds blowing I don't have problems getting shooting near shore. I have my dads Radison canoe that I can use as a "barge" but I'd rather have something a little smaller and more versitle for hunting rivers and ponds around Grand Rapids. If I get a layout, I may use it as a barge and do just as you said, anchor it away from my spread and get a seat or bucket, but some of the videos and pictures I've seen shows them in a good chop, so maybe it was the specific model that you hunted out of when you were soaked?


----------



## GVSUKUSH (Mar 9, 2004)

Good link with comparisons of the different boats.

http://www.duckboats.net/specs/marsh.html


----------



## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

GVSUKUSH said:


> ...so maybe it was the specific model that you hunted out of when you were soaked?


Could be, and it wasn't like one big wave got me, but a little at a time. Every little 1.5 ft. wave that came along kicked a little spray up, and the wind threw it right on me, so in about a half hour I slowly got soaked. But then again, I did shoot some birds that day, so I guess if you don't mind getting wet, go for it. Guess I got spoiled the few times I've hunted from a real layout boat, where the wind skirt knocks the waves back and you stay pretty dry. The otter has its uses, but it ain't no true layout boat....


----------



## GVSUKUSH (Mar 9, 2004)

just ducky said:


> Guess I got spoiled the few times I've hunted from a real layout boat, where the wind skirt knocks the waves back and you stay pretty dry. The otter has its uses, but it ain't no true layout boat....


I guess I'm trying to find something that toes the line between true layout and "puddle" boat.


----------

