# Is Reaping Legal in Michigan???



## Feather Mucker

Based on the decoy description in the Hunting Guide, it would appear to be illegal.


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## UncleNorby

Carrying a decoy doesn't make it mechanical, so if that was your concern, my opinion is that would not be an issue.

Also, I believe quite a few folks have already used the technique in MI. Haven't heard of anyone having trouble with a CO.

I prefer to hunt by calling them to me.


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## thegospelisgood

They sell Reaping Deke's and equipment in the Sport's stores. I don't reckon they would sell it if it was illegal.


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## headbanger421

thegospelisgood said:


> They sell Reaping Deke's and equipment in the Sport's stores. I don't reckon they would sell it if it was illegal.


I wouldn't necessarily use what retailers try to get you to spend money on as a barometer for what's legal.


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## thegospelisgood

headbanger421 said:


> I wouldn't necessarily use what retailers try to get you to spend money on as a barometer for what's legal.



Nope. But that coupled with previous comments and the fact that stalking game behind a blind or decoy is not illegal, the presence at a retailer is reassuring.

Not sure an outfit like cabelas would sell a turkey reaper in michigan if it weren't legal in michigan.


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## UncleNorby

I can tell you they sell plenty of items qualifying as deer bait in Indiana.


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## thegospelisgood

UncleNorby said:


> I can tell you they sell plenty of items qualifying as deer bait in Indiana.


Nice point. But bait is legal in Michigan.


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## Cobb1973

Bait is not legal to use in all of michigan. But I can still buy it in a county that it is illegal to bait. Just saying.


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## multibeard

thegospelisgood said:


> They sell Reaping Deke's and equipment in the Sport's stores. I don't reckon they would sell it if it was illegal.


More that one time I have seen trot lines for sale in stores in Michigan. Totally illegal if I this old mind remembers correctly.


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## hooks32

Decoys and Calls Mechanical, electronic or live decoys are prohibited. Mechanical decoy means any device that by design or construction uses motion as a visual stimulus to attract a wild turkey. A wind sock or similar decoy body anchored at a fixed point into the ground and whose only motion is derived exclusively by power of the natural wind is legal. The use or possession of electronic devices that imitate wild turkey calls is illegal.


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## Feather Mucker

hooks32 said:


> Decoys and Calls Mechanical, electronic or live decoys are prohibited. Mechanical decoy means any device that by design or construction uses motion as a visual stimulus to attract a wild turkey. A wind sock or similar decoy body anchored at a fixed point into the ground and whose only motion is derived exclusively by power of the natural wind is legal. The use or possession of electronic devices that imitate wild turkey calls is illegal.


Exactly. By that definition... Reaping would not be legal.

And I agree with the above posters... retailers sell alot of things that are not necessarily legal for use in Michigan. It is not their responsibility to monitor how or where something is used... as long as it is legal to SELL in Michigan, somebody will do it.


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## sureshotscott

Feather Mucker said:


> Exactly. By that definition... Reaping would not be legal.


You are not a device.


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## Feather Mucker

sureshotscott said:


> You are not a device.


Nor am I "anchored at a fixed point into the ground" if I'm sneaking up on a Tom. I'm guessing it's another one of those areas that would really depend on the mood of the CO.


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## sureshotscott

On second thought, maybe you are a device.


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## thegospelisgood

sureshotscott said:


> On second thought, maybe you are a device.


And there goes the thread.


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## dead short

I would agree that it is illegal.


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## Feather Mucker

dead short said:


> I would agree that it is illegal.


And that's enough for me... thanks for the input DS.


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## thegospelisgood

So this would be illegal to stalk behind then?


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## dead short

thegospelisgood said:


> So this would be illegal to stalk behind then?
> View attachment 207746


The way the WCO is written, I think it could definitely be considered a "mechanical decoy". 

For the purposes of this section, “mechanical decoy” means any device that by design or construction uses motion as a visual stimulus to attract a wild turkey except a wind sock or similar decoy body anchored at a fixed point into the ground and whose only motion is derived exclusively by power of the natural wind.

Ultimately it's up to the prosecutor and the CO involved in the check in the field. 

I think if you wanted to be a test case you could try it.


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## thegospelisgood

dead short said:


> The way the WCO is written, I think it could definitely be considered a "mechanical decoy".
> 
> For the purposes of this section, “mechanical decoy” means any device that by design or construction uses motion as a visual stimulus to attract a wild turkey except a wind sock or similar decoy body anchored at a fixed point into the ground and whose only motion is derived exclusively by power of the natural wind.
> 
> Ultimately it's up to the prosecutor and the CO involved in the check in the field.
> 
> I think if you wanted to be a test case you could try it.


Nahh. Not a fan of the fan. But thanks for offering.


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## dead short

Either way, the WCO was written before reaping became an issue. Some prosecutors might go for it some prosecutors might not.


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## Mr. Botek

Dead Short - 
I'm guessing low crawling with my cheap foam decoy in one hand ahead of me would be an equipment violation as well? Just looking for clarification. Thank you.


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## dead short

The way it's written it surely could be interpreted that way.....would it be a visual stimulus if used in that way?


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## Mr. Botek

Thanks for your reply. 
Still scratching my head though. 
Aren't all decoys by definition visual stimulus? Mechanical by definition refers to a device that performs a function receiving power from a non-human source; electrical motor for instance. 
Seems all needlessly confusing.


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## dead short

I would agree that all decoys are visual stimulus. Mechanical for the purposes of the turkey decoy law is essentially any movement powered by anything other than wind.


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## Mr. Botek

Sounds good.


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## FireDoc66

dead short said:


> Either way, the WCO was written before reaping became an issue. Some prosecutors might go for it some prosecutors might not.


Well that is disappointing. The fact that it is even a "grey area" nowadays with as prevalent and as widely used in multiple other States as it is; what a shame. Hopefully someone with the power to get the matter settled in stone gets on it ASAP before the Spring Season starts.


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## ezcaller

I do not know many of the posters on MS occupations but I take it' dead short' is into the law some how. I called the dnr twice to get an answer and so far no one in the offices know what fanning or reaping is and the individuals who are supposed to know have not contacted yet over a ten day period. Has anyone else tried to contact them.


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## FireDoc66

I will be contacting my Local Officers for sure.


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## fanrwing

Dead Short is a CO. Look on this site for the thread, " how to contact a CO". The DNR is a wide ranging agency and most people you would call have nothing to do with enforcing game laws. You would think they would have a way to transfer you to the right division but they don't


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## ezcaller

Thanks fanwing, once they were going to connect me to law enforcement and the other time to a CO. No reply on either part.


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## dead short

FireDoc66 said:


> Well that is disappointing. The fact that it is even a "grey area" nowadays with as prevalent and as widely used in multiple other States as it is; what a shame. Hopefully someone with the power to get the matter settled in stone gets on it ASAP before the Spring Season starts.


I can send an email message to Lansing with some information, videos, etc. I'll see what information I can get. I'd be hesitant to do it without taking to the prosecutor or the officer in the county to see what their view is on it. It's the whole movement, decoy stimulus issue that grays it up.


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## Mr. Botek

dead short said:


> I can send an email message to Lansing with some information, videos, etc. I'll see what information I can get. I'd be hesitant to do it without taking to the prosecutor or the officer in the county to see what their view is on it. It's the whole movement, decoy stimulus issue that grays it up.


Thank you for taking the time and effort to attempt to clear this up. If you get a clarification, perhaps all CO's can be notified. Maybe even a News Release through the DNR website. Regardless of the final outcome, thanks again for helping us all.


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## thegospelisgood

dead short said:


> I can send an email message to Lansing with some information, videos, etc. I'll see what information I can get. I'd be hesitant to do it without taking to the prosecutor or the officer in the county to see what their view is on it. It's the whole movement, decoy stimulus issue that grays it up.


That is worthy of high praise my friend. Once we get it worked out...I'll reconsider volunteering as test subject.


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## Lamarsh

IMO the reg is vague as it relates to fanning/reaping. Statutes can be voided for vagueness. The standard is usually that if an average person cannot understand what it means, courts will typically void the statute for vagueness. IMO, the dichotomy of opinions in this thread is in and of itself proof of average persons' misunderstanding to make the reg vague. I am not the prosecutor though, so whether you could be tangled into the system after being caught fanning or reaping is another story--and it's an entirely different story whether you would be acquitted after having been tangled up in the process. Even if you were acquitted, being tangled up in the legal process is a pain. 

I also contacted the DNR law enforcement division the other day and left a message with this question, and it has not been returned yet.


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## Mr. Botek

Ran into one of our local CO's here in Montcalm Co, Ken Lowell. His interpretation is that if the Reaper or fan where used as designed and shown in the online videos, that would be a violation. His interpretation is the same as Dead Short's. 
A decoy is only to be used staked or set in place, with no movement from an outside source other than the wind.


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## FireDoc66

dead short said:


> I can send an email message to Lansing with some information, videos, etc. I'll see what information I can get. I'd be hesitant to do it without taking to the prosecutor or the officer in the county to see what their view is on it. It's the whole movement, decoy stimulus issue that grays it up.


Thank you. I appreciate you doing that.

The other aspect of the fanning discussion I think that is overlooked is what I call "Settling". On a guided hunt a few years ago in Nebraska I learned from the guide that if you are trying to make a move on a flock or a Tom and they catch any movement and move into "Alert" mode, you can calm them down by just raising a fan. The visual of the fan alone is enough to often settle them down, and you can move away from the flock or towards your setup. This tactic alone has helped me with my daughter's hunts or other folks that I have been accompanying. Works very well in the Fall season especially. The fan is never used to "bring in" any birds, but I am now curious as to if this would be considered illegal as well.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out, as well as the justification for whatever the final decision is.


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## Mr. Botek

FireDoc66, according to the one CO that I talked to, what you described would also be illegal as the motion imparted on the decoy isn't derived from the wind. 

I've a feeling when Dead Short gets an answer for us, it'll be the same as the one he's already given. 

Now I'm going to find out about Indiana.


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## Lamarsh

Mr. Botek said:


> Ran into one of our local CO's here in Montcalm Co, Ken Lowell. His interpretation is that if the Reaper or fan where used as designed and shown in the online videos, that would be a violation. His interpretation is the same as Dead Short's.
> A decoy is only to be used staked or set in place, with no movement from an outside source other than the wind.





dead short said:


> I can send an email message to Lansing with some information, videos, etc. I'll see what information I can get. I'd be hesitant to do it without taking to the prosecutor or the officer in the county to see what their view is on it. It's the whole movement, decoy stimulus issue that grays it up.


Dead Short, are you a CO, or otherwise involved in the DNR? We appreciate your input, and we'd especially appreciate some answer from Lansing. I would agree the language regarding visual stimulus certainly creates a grey area.

Honestly, I think the DNR has no clue whether the reg seeks to prohibit fanning or reaping, and that is why so many of our calls into the DNR have been unanswered. The few COs who have apparently weighed in on it may just be providing their opinion on the wording of the statute to a friend who posts on this forum. IMO that's not good enough. Some clarity would be helpful.


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## dead short

Mr. Botek said:


> Ran into one of our local CO's here in Montcalm Co, Ken Lowell. His interpretation is that if the Reaper or fan where used as designed and shown in the online videos, that would be a violation. His interpretation is the same as Dead Short's.
> A decoy is only to be used staked or set in place, with no movement from an outside source other than the wind.


Actually I had this same discussion with a biologist today. He also agrees that if a hunter was using a "fan" as a stationary "blind" it would be legal. Ken is an officer in my district. 

It's the source of the movement of the decoy that makes it a violation.


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## dead short

Mr. Botek said:


> FireDoc66, according to the one CO that I talked to, what you described would also be illegal as the motion imparted on the decoy isn't derived from the wind.
> 
> I've a feeling when Dead Short gets an answer for us, it'll be the same as the one he's already given.
> 
> Now I'm going to find out about Indiana.


I'll contact a game warden I know in Indiana...


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## dead short

Just got this from an Indiana Officer. His response is in gray.


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## dead short

He sent me this as well....his message is in gray.


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## dead short

Lamarsh said:


> Dead Short, are you a CO, or otherwise involved in the DNR? We appreciate your input, and we'd especially appreciate some answer from Lansing. I would agree the language regarding visual stimulus certainly creates a grey area.


Yes, Bay City District. I'm also going to put a call in to the upland bird specialist on Monday as well.


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## Mr. Botek

Thanks for going above and beyond Dead Short. If you and Ken are in the same district, I'm surprised you and I haven't met. Take care!


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## dead short

Or maybe we have....

Our nine county district is spread pretty far east/west.


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## Lamarsh

I can add, and this is all just subjective brainstorming, that I do see some reasoning behind a rule prohibiting fanning or reaping. It has nothing to do with any lack of primitiveness or it being too modern or unfair. The things I can see the DNR wanting to create such a rule would be the pressure it puts on strutting and congregating turkeys during the mating season, and safety to hunters. 

Doesn't change my opinion on the vagueness of the rule, but I just thought I'd add that I do see some reason for the rule if it in fact exists.


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## jackbob42

hooks32 said:


> whose only motion is derived exclusively by power of the natural wind


Why is " whose ONLY motion " so hard to understand ?


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## Lamarsh

jackbob42 said:


> Why is " whose ONLY motion " so hard to understand ?


I think you're on the wrong point (more proof that the reg is vague and confusing). The wind sock sentence is not the language that creates problems (but it is another strange carve out), because a fan or tom reaper type decoy is not even close to similar to a wind sock. The language that creates problems for fanning or reaping is just the words "visual stimulus," and what is confusing is the fact that the language is in a sentence that appears to only be talking about mechanical decoys. I think that is the main confusion.


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## Firefighter

I think the answers from the CO's in the thread clear it up just fine.


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## Feather Mucker

Firefighter said:


> I think the answers from the CO's in the thread clear it up just fine.


Yeah... I caught on to that way back on page 2. And no amount of me "wanting" it to be legal is going to change that.

I would think that they would have to allow mechanically manipulated decoys like other states for reaping to be legal here.


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## sureshotscott

Feather Mucker said:


> Yeah... I caught on to that way back on page 2. And no amount of me "wanting" it to be legal is going to change that.


Following the CO input, I agree and apologize for being snarky about this to you earlier in the thread.


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## Lamarsh

Firefighter said:


> I think the answers from the CO's in the thread clear it up just fine.


I'm not sure, Dead Short is a CO and he noted that it seems to be a grey area. The problem is the fact that the "visual stimulus" language is in a sentence that is regarding mechanical decoys. Arguing on behalf of the folks who think it is illegal (just to play devil's advocate) the drafters intent appears to be to avoid visual stimulus, with one apparent carve out for wind socks, but no carve out for waving a fan or decoy around, which would lend to the argument that the drafter's intent was to make fanning or reaping illegal. But arguing for the folks who think it is legal by way of vagueness, the fact that the statute is vague and there are enough of us scratching our heads over it may be enough for the reg to be voided. 
Dead Short did offer to make some calls, which is great, so hopefully he will report back to this thread with some input. It's great to have some COs lurking around these forums because it gives the DNR an angle to see what sportsmen are talking about and what we're concerned with (hint hint on the inland waterfowl hunting blinds lol). 

Anyways, I have now left two voicemails with law enforcement division of the DNR and have not received a call back on this fanning/reaping issue. I suspect it is because they do not have an answer, because I have called for other issues in the past and usually get a returned call reasonably quickly. 

Speaking only for myself, if I do not have an answer, I will not be trying these techniques this spring. It makes me very angry that I am opting to do that when it could possibly be legal, but getting tangled up in the system just isn't worth it IMO.


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## Sprytle

Can I just crawl towards them with a feather in my cap?


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## bheary

Only if you hang it from your belt and fart on it


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## Jager Pro

Sprytle said:


> Can I just crawl towards them with a feather in my cap?


Will you call it Macaroni?


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## srconnell22

So this means that nobody is legally allowed to carry a decoy to their hunting setup outside of a decoy bag, correct? 

If, in fact, holding a fan or a decoy in front of you while walking is illegal, as was previously stated, nobody would be allowed to walk to their setup carrying a decoy in plain view. Nobody would be allowed to belly crawl a decoy out to set it up after hearing a bird gobble and not being set up yet. They (along with fanning) are all the same act... moving a decoy in front of you which this makes each instance a "mechanical decoy". 

Meanwhile, Kyle Randall airs a show in Michigan using a clearly mechanical decoy (pull string if I remember correctly) on public television with no recourse.


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## Mr. Botek

srconnell22 said:


> So this means that nobody is legally allowed to carry a decoy to their hunting setup outside of a decoy bag, correct?
> 
> If, in fact, holding a fan or a decoy in front of you while walking is illegal, as was previously stated, nobody would be allowed to walk to their setup carrying a decoy in plain view. Nobody would be allowed to belly crawl a decoy out to set it up after hearing a bird gobble and not being set up yet. They (along with fanning) are all the same act... moving a decoy in front of you.


I asked these questions when I talked to the CO. According to him, if you are moving with a decoy towards visible birds and have your weapon of choice at the ready, that would be a violation as the rule is written. 

I'm satisfied the question has been sufficiently answered as to what's legal and what isn't. 

Folks may not like the answer, they're free to do as they choose or pursue changing the rule to specifically allow the user of these items.


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## FireDoc66

I asked the question of one of my hunting partners yesterday who is an avid turkey hunter. He is a longtime DNR employee as well, but not a CO. 

He posed the question to a CO, a Lieutenant, and a Captain in his office today. 

After hearing their answers, and their opinions I can state I feel 100% comfortable with *using* my fan in the field this season if I choose to do so. 

Take that for what it is worth. Good luck on your Spring seasons.


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## jackbob42

Lamarsh said:


> ......... The language that creates problems for fanning or reaping is just the words "visual stimulus," and what is confusing is the fact that the language is in a sentence that appears to only be talking about mechanical decoys. I think that is the main confusion.



It says a mechanical decoy is "any device" that uses "motion" as a "visual stimulus".
When you move the fan or decoy , aren't you using the "motion" of that "device" as a "visual stimulus" ?
If not , then why move it at all?


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## Kennybks

As I read through this thread many of the points I thought of were mentioned. 

While I respect Deadshorts view and interpretation, I would like to hope that the true intent of the law would be realized and not just enforced strictly to how the law was written. 

The intent, as I understand it, was to prevent someone from adapting a decoy with mechanical enhancements to provide movement outside of naturally occurring wind. Easy and very clear.

That would include fishing line to pull the decoy mounted on a fixed point and use a pully to remotely pull a decoy to turn it, using a skateboard beneath a decoy and pull cord or a remote control car/truck beneath a decoy would all be mechanical in nature and illegal. 

Me physically picking up a fan in front of me is in no way a mechanical action. 

The words "other than wind" is where the law is being overly interpreted. It needs to be reviewed and rewritten given newly envisioned techniques. 

So if I got to a spot to hunt and as I removed a decoy from my bag and a bird saw the motion/color pattern and made a beeline to me before I could deploy the decoy it would be illegal to shoot the bird. Thats just stupid. 

Another thought comes to mind about just using a cord and such to make even a slight motion to turn a deek. Doesn't it seem odd that Waterfowl hunters can legally use jerk cords, a spinning wing, bubblers, carousels with flying deeks, kites, but a turkey hunter cannot take advantage of use of a full fan as a visual seems pretty lame. 

Not that I feel any of it is necessary to use any of the above to kill a turkey.


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## bheary

I agree that it is tough to sometimes understand/interpret the hunting digest and fishing guides. This one seems pretty cut and dry to me. Crazy to think that a bird that can such a pain in the ass to get within range goes completely nuts over fanned feathers or a moving body. I really wanted to try crawling behind a full body mount too. Oh well...


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## jem44357

Would it be illegal to reposition your decoy while in the field and in position of a firearm if birds are present or not? Also it states “A wind sock or similar decoy body anchored at a fixed point into the ground and whose only motion is derived exclusively by power of the natural wind is legal.” Do all decoys need to be anchored?


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## srconnell22

dead short said:


> This interpretation is not based on the specific wording of the WCO. It clearly says movement other than wind...


I can certainly appreciate your interpretation, and respect your opinion. That being said, I told him of your opinion when I posed the question to him. I told him it seemed to be a controversial issue and we were getting conflicting answers from CO's around the state. I would abide by whatever he told me was the correct interpretation of the law. 

He got ahold of Lansing as well, as far as I know. He has been with the state for a long time (pushing two decades now) so I value his opinion. That doesn't mean I don't value yours as I appreciate that we have a resident CO who is actually engaged rather than hiding in the woodwork and lurking, like most of the rest of the CO's on this forum. The fact of the matter is, I don't turkey hunt in the thumb so I wanted the interpretation of the man I'd actually run into out there. 

Either way, fanning is not how turkey hunting is supposed to be done. I would rather stick to walking and calling. It does prove the point I've been trying to make on here for years that turkeys are dumb as a box of rocks though.


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## dead short

When people ask a question on here, the best answer for them to receive is the one that is closest to the language as written in the WCO. That's why most times when people pose a question they get a cut and paste of what the regulations says and a little explanation based in the wording. There's absolutely no way that a "what if" question should be answered any other way, especially on Social Media. Every situation is a little different and is going to be looked at by the officer in the field and totality of circumstance will be taken into consideration, and that is where the spirit of the law has a chance to come in play.

When someone asks a question on here, the answer they are going to receive is the black and white letter of the law version. I've been doing this for just under 20 years myself and have seen and heard just about every excuse including "I read on the internet that it was legal" or "I saw in Facebook that it was legal". Better to err on the side of caution. I'm not going to tell anyone that it's legal to do something that when it clearly states otherwise in the WCO.


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## dead short

Kennybks said:


> Me physically picking up a fan in front of me is in no way a mechanical action.
> 
> The words "other than wind" is where the law is being overly interpreted.


Under this particular WCO a person picking up and moving a fan around is "mechanical". 

I don't think it is being overly interpreted, I think it is being literally interpreted. This is what it says....

"whose only motion is derived exclusively by power of the natural wind."


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## UncleNorby

dead short said:


> Under this particular WCO a person picking up and moving a fan around is "mechanical".
> 
> I don't think it is being overly interpreted, I think it is being literally interpreted. This is what it says....
> 
> "whose only motion is derived exclusively by power of the natural wind."


I disagree, IMO, and as has been pointed out, the above quote regarding motion is incomplete. The definition contains this text as well: *Mechanical decoy means any device that by design or construction uses motion" . *

So the motion must be made possible by the decoy's design and construction. A decoy with no articulating parts is not a mechanical device. A person holding and moving a decoy does not turn it into a mechanical device any more than picking up a rock and throwing it would turn it into a grenade.


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## Woodstock

If you can't move it mechanically, how can you get it out in the field? 

Do you set it by the truck and hope the wind blows it by where you're setting?


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## sureshotscott

Woodstock said:


> If you can't move it mechanically, how can you get it out in the field?
> 
> Do you set it by the truck and hope the wind blows it by where you're setting?


This question borders on ridiculous...but I see your point.

Decoys are NOT prohibited, or else the language would plainly say so. Therefore, using decoys is allowed. In order to use them, you must transport to/from the field, and no jury is going to find anyone at fault for this (hopefully no one gets wrapped up in a legal fight over silly interpretations of the WCO).

So we've identified a poorly-written regulation. How should it be fixed? What should and should not be allowed regarding turkey hunting and decoys?

As a freedom-loving American, I can't see why there are regulations regarding turkey hunting decoys in the first place. What's the worst that could happen by deregulating? Primos teams up with Apple to create the iTurkey? Is that going to destroy turkey hunting?


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## Lamarsh

Kennybks said:


> As I read through this thread many of the points I thought of were mentioned.
> 
> While I respect Deadshorts view and interpretation, I would like to hope that the true intent of the law would be realized and not just enforced strictly to how the law was written.
> 
> The intent, as I understand it, was to prevent someone from adapting a decoy with mechanical enhancements to provide movement outside of naturally occurring wind. Easy and very clear.
> 
> That would include fishing line to pull the decoy mounted on a fixed point and use a pully to remotely pull a decoy to turn it, using a skateboard beneath a decoy and pull cord or a remote control car/truck beneath a decoy would all be mechanical in nature and illegal.
> 
> Me physically picking up a fan in front of me is in no way a mechanical action.
> 
> The words "other than wind" is where the law is being overly interpreted. It needs to be reviewed and rewritten given newly envisioned techniques.
> 
> So if I got to a spot to hunt and as I removed a decoy from my bag and a bird saw the motion/color pattern and made a beeline to me before I could deploy the decoy it would be illegal to shoot the bird. Thats just stupid.
> 
> Another thought comes to mind about just using a cord and such to make even a slight motion to turn a deek. Doesn't it seem odd that Waterfowl hunters can legally use jerk cords, a spinning wing, bubblers, carousels with flying deeks, kites, but a turkey hunter cannot take advantage of use of a full fan as a visual seems pretty lame.
> 
> Not that I feel any of it is necessary to use any of the above to kill a turkey.


I agree with everything you just said, you highlight the confusion and vagueness that I have been talking about very well--except I do not agree with you on the point you made about waterfowl hunting--it is a different game animal, with different behavior, laws, etc, and IMO should not be compared to turkey hunting.


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## Kennybks

Lamarsh said:


> I agree with everything you just said, you highlight the confusion and vagueness that I have been talking about very well--except I do not agree with you on the point you made about waterfowl hunting--it is a different game animal, with different behavior, laws, etc, and IMO should not be compared to turkey hunting.


Thanks Lamarsh, note I say I find it interesting. not that I believe turkey hunting should follow suit for any of the Waterfowl hype.


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## Lamarsh

Kennybks said:


> Thanks Lamarsh, note I say I find it interesting. not that I believe turkey hunting should follow suit for any of the Waterfowl hype.


It is a valid point, because motion to a waterfowl decoy spread does help draw birds in nearly the same way it would a turkey, and is illegal in some places--I was just clarifying that it being legal for waterfowl should not _necessarily _mean it should be legal for turkey hunting because they are different game birds, and they could have entirely different conservation statuses in terms of numbers and how sensitive they are to pressure, etc. I think pressure would be a good part of why it may be illegal for turkey hunting. Fair chase could be part of it, not sure though. But one reason I could fairly assume, which is a huge distinction from motion in waterfowl hunting, is the potential dangers reaping can pose to hunters on public land. If reaping is illegal, I'd bet the reasons are a combination of pressure and danger to hunters.


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## DEDGOOSE

sureshotscott said:


> As a freedom-loving American, I can't see why there are regulations regarding turkey hunting decoys in the first place. What's the worst that could happen by deregulating? Primos teams up with Apple to create the iTurkey? Is that going to destroy turkey hunting?


IMO a resounding yes. Ban decoys altogether.


----------



## Firefighter

DEDGOOSE said:


> IMO a resounding yes. Ban decoys altogether.


And ground blinds, and make hunters wear an orange hat.

Now we'll separate the men from the boys!


----------



## DEDGOOSE

Firefighter said:


> And ground blinds, and make hunters wear an orange hat.
> 
> Now we'll separate the men from the boys!


I'd be game. I forget what legendary turkey hunter killed one in a Santa suit. Plus we could up the bag limit


----------



## thegospelisgood

Can we don war paint and hunt in loincloth too?


----------



## jackbob42

Firefighter said:


> And ground blinds, and make hunters wear an orange hat.
> 
> Now we'll separate the men from the boys!



To tell you the truth.......
Seems every other year or so I hear about a young kid being shot during turkey season.
I have killed and called turkeys in for others while wearing orange stripes.
Seen it enough that I would REALLY like to see some type of orange requirement.

Now , as for reaping , I'm not against it , I just don't believe it's legal.
However , I am going to try it without a weapon just to see how effective it is.
I hope it's legal to kill a turkey with your bare hands in self-defense ! LOL


----------



## GADWALL21

When in doubt whip this bad boy out!!


----------



## Lamarsh

Firefighter said:


> And ground blinds, and make hunters wear an orange hat.
> 
> Now we'll separate the men from the boys!


I posted a video one time on this site of me calling in turkeys with my mouth (no call, just my own ridiculous turkey noises) while deer hunting wearing blaze orange. Admittedly, I removed my blaze orange when they started to get close, but they could definitely see my blaze orange before I did that. Weird birds they are.


----------



## cedarlkDJ

Lamarsh said:


> I posted a video one time on this site of me calling in turkeys with my mouth (no call, just my own ridiculous turkey noises) while deer hunting wearing blaze orange. Admittedly, I removed my blaze orange when they started to get close, but they could definitely see my blaze orange before I did that. Weird birds they are.


Everybody knows turkeys are the dumbest birds on the planet!
"Heck, they just stand next to the road and let you shoot them."


----------



## Kennybks

cedarlkDJ said:


> Everybody knows turkeys are the dumbest birds on the planet!
> "Heck, they just stand next to the road and let you shoot them."


Only the ones that are mechanical devices with CO hiding nearby.


----------



## FireDoc66

So I have been following this for some time now, and found this interesting. The following is from the Michigan NWTF website Meeting Minutes:

*July 2016 Minutes

We are very concerned with safety in the field while hunting, so we oppose the use of


hand held turkey fans (“reefing” or “fanning”). We will express this position to Dean


Molnar (DNR Law Division). We believe it is now considered illegal, but need to state


our position firmly (Hugh, Gary, carried).*


Followed up by;

*October 2016 Minutes

The Law Division had no action on the fan tail question (see July minutes).*


----------



## TheLionsFan

FireDoc66 said:


> So I have been following this for some time now, and found this interesting. The following is from the Michigan NWTF website Meeting Minutes:
> 
> *July 2016 Minutes
> 
> We are very concerned with safety in the field while hunting, so we oppose the use of
> 
> 
> hand held turkey fans (“reefing” or “fanning”). We will express this position to Dean
> 
> 
> Molnar (DNR Law Division). We believe it is now considered illegal, but need to state
> 
> 
> our position firmly (Hugh, Gary, carried).*
> 
> 
> Followed up by;
> 
> *October 2016 Minutes
> 
> The Law Division had no action on the fan tail question (see July minutes).*


I'm glad to see they're opposed to the idea.


----------



## plugger

Would it be legal to wear my brown chicken suit?


----------



## TheLionsFan

plugger said:


> Would it be legal to wear my brown chicken suit?


Just remember when they're cackling, it's their way of laughing at you lol.


----------



## GVDocHoliday

TTT


----------



## GVDocHoliday

Bringing this back to the top because this method of hunting appears to be the cover story and promoted method on the April issue of Woods-n-Water news


----------



## DEDGOOSE

GVDocHoliday said:


> Bringing this back to the top because this method of hunting appears to be the cover story and promoted method on the April issue of Woods-n-Water news


I truly wish either way we would have closure on this. He could and most likely is naive as the rest of us.

I just blew through the article, read W&W regular, but rarely if ever, his articles. He really seems to promote it as a first option.


----------



## GVDocHoliday

DEDGOOSE said:


> I truly wish either way we would have closure on this. He could and most likely is naive as the rest of us.
> 
> I just blew through the article, read W&W regular, but rarely if ever, his articles. He really seems to promote it as a first option.


I know, and to me, it's not even a gray area. It's pretty well spelled out in black and white. A decoy must be staked and can only move by wind. I know the CO's in my county will issue a citation. 

I'm also glad to see that the NWTF is against this activity.


----------



## srconnell22

Talked to the local CO this afternoon for an unrelated matter... he remembered I had asked him about it last year. He said it was official now that it is illegal. 

I won't be messing with it this year for that reason.


----------



## FireDoc66

Scott, did he say how it became "officially" illegal by chance?


----------



## DEDGOOSE

FireDoc66 said:


> Scott, did he say how it became "officially" illegal by chance?


It truly needs to be in that lil rule changes box on the cover of the digest next year if they want it illegal.

It sounds as if in their meetings, they told them to enforce it as mechanical, but there needs to be something official as look how confused folks are on this thread.


----------



## srconnell22

FireDoc66 said:


> Scott, did he say how it became "officially" illegal by chance?


He told me there was an email that went out to all from a captain high up in the department with their official stance on the practice being any movement by anything other than wind makes it mechanical. 

This coming from the same guy that told me it wasn't an issue last year means I won't be doing it.


----------



## FireDoc66

srconnell22 said:


> He told me there was an email that went out to all from a captain high up in the department with their official stance on the practice being any movement by anything other than wind makes it mechanical.
> 
> This coming from the same guy that told me it wasn't an issue last year means I won't be doing it.


Gotcha. Thanks.


----------



## multibeard

DEDGOOSE said:


> It truly needs to be in that lil rule changes box on the cover of the digest next year if they want it illegal.
> 
> It sounds as if in their meetings, they told them to enforce it as mechanical, but there needs to be something official as look how confused folks are on this thread.


The DNR regulations in Michigan are confusing as H. Look at all the if, ands and buts all over the place in the booklet. Some one must like to use the * button while putting out the booklet just to keep the masses confused.


----------



## DirtySteve

It would be nice to see someone get ticketed and challenge it before a judge. That would help define the law better I think. 

I get that the dnr can send a memo from the top.....but that still doesn't mean they are correct.


----------



## Martian

I was at a seminar yesterday at Williams gunsite, It was given by a CO. When asked about reaping, he said it is legal. Verbage says a deke cannot be mechanically moved, string , batteries or other manipulation. but manually carrying is legal. Now, He also does not condone it for obvious safety reasons. He even asked while hiding behind it and crawling on the floor, " does anyone see anything wrong with this" I would think on state land this could be a death wish, and man , do the dekes look real. It is legal


----------



## DEDGOOSE

Martian said:


> I was at a seminar yesterday at Williams gunsite, It was given by a CO. When asked about reaping, he said it is legal. Verbage says a deke cannot be mechanically moved, string , batteries or other manipulation. but manually carrying is legal. Now, He also does not condone it for obvious safety reasons. He even asked while hiding behind it and crawling on the floor, " does anyone see anything wrong with this" I would think on state land this could be a death wish, and man , do the dekes look real. It is legal


They truly need to make a statement before NEXT season. I am not doubting what you were told and I don't doubt srconnell as he's one of my best friend's. Sounds like COs are as confused as the rest of us.

Personally wish it was illegal, but with the confusion, would not pass judgement on someone ticketed for it.


----------



## DirtySteve

GVDocHoliday said:


> I know, and to me, it's not even a gray area. It's pretty well spelled out in black and white. A decoy must be staked and can only move by wind. I know the CO's in my county will issue a citation.
> 
> I'm also glad to see that the NWTF is against this activity.



So how do I take my decoy into the field? Kite maybe?


----------



## Firefighter

A Willy Wonka teleporter of course!


----------



## Martian

DEDGOOSE said:


> They truly need to make a statement before NEXT season. I am not doubting what you were told and I don't doubt srconnell as he's one of my best friend's. Sounds like COs are as confused as the rest of us.
> 
> Personally wish it was illegal, but with the confusion, would not pass judgement on someone ticketed for it.


it was april fools day?


----------



## GVDocHoliday

DirtySteve said:


> So how do I take my decoy into the field? Kite maybe?


Use common sense man. There's an absolute difference between carrying your decoy out into the field for a hunt and reaping.


----------



## RMH

GVDocHoliday said:


> Use common sense man. There's an absolute difference between carrying your decoy out into the field for a hunt and reaping.


Anybody who could mistake a dude reaping, for a real turkey, is a total douche bag. I don't care how realistic the decoy is.


----------



## hypox

In reaping, isn't the decoy used more as a blind than a decoy? I mean, it's just helping block/disrupt the turkeys view of the hunter, correct?

I'm not saying I'm for or against it.....honestly, I know very little about it.


----------



## GVDocHoliday

hypox said:


> In reaping, isn't the decoy used more as a blind than a decoy? I mean, it's just helping block/disrupt the turkeys view of the hunter, correct?
> 
> I'm not saying I'm for or against it.....honestly, I know very little about it.


Reaping is using a turkey decoy and moving it to bring a turkey running right into the hunter. Swap out the the turkey decoy for a camo umbrella and it's no longer reaping.


----------



## hypox

GVDocHoliday said:


> Reaping is using a turkey decoy and moving it to bring a turkey running right into the hunter. Swap out the the turkey decoy for a camo umbrella and it's no longer reaping.


Are these decoys specifically made for reaping? I mean, if I took my foam hen decoy and tried to reap with it I don't think it would work very good?

What if you swapped the camo umbrella with an umbrella with a turkey fan print pattern....is that reaping?

Again, just trying to understand. Thanks.


----------



## DEDGOOSE

hypox said:


> Are these decoys specifically made for reaping? I mean, if I took my foam hen decoy and tried to reap with it I don't think it would work very good?
> 
> What if you swapped the camo umbrella with an umbrella with a turkey fan print pattern....is that reaping?
> 
> Again, just trying to understand. Thanks.


They have the exact umbrella you said. Tons of specific decoys for it


----------



## DirtySteve

Watch a few reaping videos on youtube. 90% move the decoy occasionally and get closer to the bird. They stay behind the silhouette of the decoy for cover. I don't see how it is any different than trying to sneak up on a turkey and setting up a decoy then hiding behind a tree, piece of mesh or bush. It isn't the mechanical moving of the decoy as some sort of advantage to attract the bird. I don't see how it is different than walking out into a field and setting up a decoy and sitting 30 yds away.. ...especially if you use some other means of hiding.


----------



## hooks32

DirtySteve said:


> Watch a few reaping videos on youtube. 90% move the decoy occasionally and get closer to the bird. They stay behind the silhouette of the decoy for cover. I don't see how it is any different than trying to sneak up on a turkey and setting up a decoy then hiding behind a tree, piece of mesh or bush. It isn't the mechanical moving of the decoy as some sort of advantage to attract the bird. I don't see how it is different than walking out into a field and setting up a decoy and sitting 30 yds away.. ...especially if you use some other means of hiding.


when your moving that decoy towards the turkey and your hiding behind it, you don't think your stimulating that bird to come check it out?


----------



## DEDGOOSE

hooks32 said:


> when your moving that decoy towards the turkey and your hiding behind it, you don't think your stimulating that bird to come check it out?


Agree totally, I've watched it done numerous times... Probably the first bird I watched reaped was 10- 12 years ago in WY. And I was mesmerized. Dumbest thing I've ever seen.

I'll be the first to drop to my belly when I need a kill, no visual stimulation. It's harder than calling a bird up, pushing a fan or rubber turkey, not so much.


----------



## DirtySteve

hooks32 said:


> when your moving that decoy towards the turkey and your hiding behind it, you don't think your stimulating that bird to come check it out?


The point of a decoy is to stimulate a bird to check it out so yes it would. You could say the same about any decoy weather you move it or not.

So if I get up and discreetly move closer and set out a decoy it is different?

Sounds a bit ridiculous to me. What about someone that stalks up with a ghost blind should thry be illegal? What about silhouette blinds for deer or antelope? 

A couple of years ago my oldest son stalked up on a bird in nothing but camo with a headcover. It was just over a hill top. He snuck up on the back side of the hill and sat down. I watched the entire ordeal. Just as he sat down the bird saw a bit of his movement. It came charging over the hill to check him out. He had no decoy. I don't see how this would really be different than reaping. He moved in on the bird undetected after seeing it first.


----------



## hooks32

yeah it is different, your staking it to the ground.


----------



## Big Ches

Perfectly LEGAL....definitely by definition.

No way in hell it would stand up in court by the statute the way it is written now.

BUT if a CO in Michigan thinks that it is illegal, I suggest getting your head out of your asses and get information out on this. It is a very popular method to get a turkey right now.

It is LEGAL in Indiana.


----------



## RMH

I'm not stuck on any certain method. Reaping sounds like an exciting hunt. I would do it.

Probably not as good as Firefighter though, I'm sure he would claim he could wiggle his Tom better!!!


----------



## michiganoutdoorsman

Big Ches said:


> Perfectly LEGAL....definitely by definition.
> 
> No way in hell it would stand up in court by the statute the way it is written now.
> 
> BUT if a CO in Michigan thinks that it is illegal, I suggest getting your head out of your asses and get information out on this. It is a very popular method to get a turkey right now.
> 
> It is LEGAL in Indiana.


Either way I wish it was outlawed. People rip on me all the time on Facebook because I say it takes zero skill to kill a bird like that. I've watched so many friends take the strutter decoy and go right to the birds and have the toms charge them or just have the toms strut and they can get within 10-20 yards. Calling is becoming a lost art. Everyone just wants to say how many they've killed or how many people they took to kill birds with them. Social media is ruining hunting, it's a d*** measuring contest on every different page or account now.


----------



## RMH

michiganoutdoorsman said:


> Either way I wish it was outlawed. People rip on me all the time on Facebook because I say it takes zero skill to kill a bird like that. I've watched so many friends take the strutter decoy and go right to the birds and have the toms charge them or just have the toms strut and they can get within 10-20 yards. *Calling is becoming a lost art*. Everyone just wants to say how many they've killed or how many people they took to kill birds with them. Social media is ruining hunting, it's a d*** measuring contest on every different page or account now.


This guy called them right in. I would be fully engorged. I should rent a 410 pistol this season.


----------



## hooks32

michiganoutdoorsman said:


> Either way I wish it was outlawed. People rip on me all the time on Facebook because I say it takes zero skill to kill a bird like that. I've watched so many friends take the strutter decoy and go right to the birds and have the toms charge them or just have the toms strut and they can get within 10-20 yards. Calling is becoming a lost art. Everyone just wants to say how many they've killed or how many people they took to kill birds with them. Social media is ruining hunting, it's a d*** measuring contest on every different page or account now.


I agree 100%-lots of people wont ever experience how turkey hunting should be. like you said, calling is becoming a lost art.


----------



## DEDGOOSE

michiganoutdoorsman said:


> Either way I wish it was outlawed. People rip on me all the time on Facebook because I say it takes zero skill to kill a bird like that. I've watched so many friends take the strutter decoy and go right to the birds and have the toms charge them or just have the toms strut and they can get within 10-20 yards. Calling is becoming a lost art. Everyone just wants to say how many they've killed or how many people they took to kill birds with them. Social media is ruining hunting, it's a d*** measuring contest on every different page or account now.


Thanks for taking the torch as resident *******. Lol I have held it for years but being in the industry, not a good idea. Most the good hunters I know from across the country feel the same way about the direction of the sport. 

I was gonna post the video RMH did... Guy can't get his butt down, no way he could pull it off without the decoy, crawling is an art. I have watched or killed birds in about every way possible, alot I'm not proud of. To me we outta allow shooting out the truck window where one has permission if reaping is legal.

As far as social media, I rarely post a pic anymore unless kids or something special. Used to post big posts of our spring travels on here and other forums. I used to be on a ton of boards, but your right it has become a gentalia measuring contest and jealousy is rampant in this sport.


----------



## RMH

DEDGOOSE said:


> *crawling is an art*.


I figured it would be you or FF to bring that up. LMAO, But hey if you could call better, you wouldn't have to crawl. Calling is a lost art.:yikes:

Some people have admitted breaking out in a full fledged body poem (Rambo style) to get their bird.:lol:


----------



## multibeard

It is time fro the DNR to put out a press release stating whether it is legal or illegal.

That is right we are talking about the DNR!! That would be too simple.


----------



## DEDGOOSE

RMH said:


> I figured it would be you or FF to bring that up. LMAO, But hey if you could call better, you wouldn't have to crawl. Calling is a lost art.:yikes:
> 
> Some people have admitted breaking out in a full fledged body poem (Rambo style)to get their bird.:lol:


You can rip me all you want. You act like firefighter and I know each other, we dont, never met him. So get that thought outta your head.
I will be the first one to help anyone with turkey hunting or calling, phone, text, forums etc. Probably shared a tree with 100 or more people. I've critiqued GNCC and world champions, way better than I am. I love the art of calling, the language of the wild turkey has been apart of my life since 93? I enjoy it and hope folks enjoy it as well, it's a separate entity to hunting.

But like I said crawling without visual stimulation is not gonna work for most people. I enjoy it, gotten to the point I rarely have a gun. My focus this year is kids


----------



## Firefighter

Don't be jealous Rich.

Oftentimes, the most difficult "hunt" of my hunt is finding where in thee hell I left my vest and binoculars I ditched as I slithered through the grass.

One tends to forget all non-vital events leading up to a kill, once a turkey is slung over their shoulders and their brain starts functioning again.

I'm sure you forget where your Gatorade and partially eaten candy bar are within the cavernous ground blind you inhabit (they're all huge to you right?) after you make a kill as well...


----------



## RMH

DEDGOOSE said:


> You can rip me all you want.


The only ripping is when people dog on other's legal hunting tactics. 




DEDGOOSE said:


> You act like firefighter and I know each other


That's all in your head. Where did I ever call him your buddy?


----------



## GobbleJunky

Legal or not, I can't figure out why anybody in a 1-bird state would want to (or in most cases have to) reap a turkey to kill him. They just ain't that hard to kill using traditional methods. I recently saw pictures of fields full of gobblers in MI. It can't be that hard to kill 1 freaking turkey up there. My season would be over in 1 day if I used all these new crutches to turkey hunt.
Just my opinion, but I wish fanning/reaping would be illegal nation wide...along with strutting decoys.


----------



## RMH

Firefighter said:


> Don't be jealous Rich.
> 
> Oftentimes, the most difficult "hunt" of my hunt is finding where in thee hell I left my vest and binoculars I ditched as I slithered through the grass.
> 
> One tends to forget all non-vital events leading up to a kill, once a turkey is slung over their shoulders and their brain starts functioning again.
> 
> I'm sure you forget where your Gatorade and partially eaten candy bar are within the cavernous ground blind you inhabit (they're all huge to you right?) after you make a kill as well...


Jason, unlike you, I don't travel around an internet site dogging people's methods of hunting. I tease people like you when do it. I am for every legal method of hunting equally, including your poetic turkey crawl......

I would have a blast hunting a turkey as shown in the video I posted above.

Ponder this:
There are many many factors that determine the methods of hunting and fishing that people choose to use.


----------



## RMH

GobbleJunky said:


> Legal or not, I can't figure out why anybody in a 1-bird state would want to (or in most cases have to) reap a turkey to kill him. They just ain't that hard to kill using traditional methods. I recently saw pictures of fields full of gobblers in MI. It can't be that hard to kill 1 freaking turkey up there. My season would be over in 1 day if I used all these new crutches to turkey hunt.
> Just my opinion, but I wish fanning/reaping would be illegal nation wide...along with strutting decoys.


What's your problem?

Are you afraid that people who hunt turkeys by legal means are going to wipe out the population? :lol:

Variety is King!!!


----------



## DEDGOOSE

RMH said:


> That's all in your head. Where did I ever call him your buddy?


Few weeks ago, u linked us


----------



## GobbleJunky

I've got no problem. I just hate the direction that turkey hunting has taken over the last decade. It's all about getting that dead turkey picture for the internet. Any rubberhead can kill a turkey nowadays. It used to be a special sport that required turkey knowledge and a degree of skill. The commercialization of the sport has dumbed it down too far, IMO.
I guess I'm just old and stuck in my ways.


----------



## RMH

DEDGOOSE said:


> Few weeks ago, u linked us


Maybe so, you both degrade legal hunting tactics. I disapprove!!!

Don't mean I don't respect you for your talents or your humor on the MSF.


----------



## DEDGOOSE

GobbleJunky said:


> I've got no problem. I just hate the direction that turkey hunting has taken over the last decade. It's all about getting that dead turkey picture for the internet. Any rubberhead can kill a turkey nowadays. It used to be a special sport that required turkey knowledge and a degree of skill. The commercialization of the sport has dumbed it down too far, IMO.
> I guess I'm just old and stuck in my ways.


It is couldn't said it better myself. It's society in general, success, and quick. It's caught up to hunting. People get jealous when you do more with less... If they need it, so be it.


----------



## Firefighter

RMH said:


> Jason, unlike you, I don't travel around an internet site dogging people's methods of hunting. I tease people like you when do it. I am for every legal method of hunting equally, including your poetic turkey crawl......
> 
> I would have a blast hunting a turkey as shown in the video I posted above.
> 
> Ponder this:
> There are many many factors that determine the methods of hunting and fishing that people choose to use.



You're right Rich, you simply dog everything else with the maturity of a 13 year old.

To speak your language and make you feel more comfortable, here's a nonsensical and immature meme:


----------



## RMH

GobbleJunky said:


> I've got no problem. I just hate the direction that turkey hunting has taken over the last decade. It's all about getting that dead turkey picture for the internet. Any rubberhead can kill a turkey nowadays. It used to be a special sport that required turkey knowledge and a degree of skill. The commercialization of the sport has dumbed it down too far, IMO.
> I guess I'm just old and stuck in my ways.


Fair answer.

I just totally disagree.

Who are you to judge how special someone else's hunt is by their chosen legal tactic?

Or to judge the turkey hunting as a whole because someone you don't even know kills a turkey by reaping, or whatever other method you dislike.

Seems a little self centered to me?


----------



## RMH

Firefighter said:


> *You're right Rich*, you simply dog everything else with the maturity of a 13 year old.
> 
> To speak your language and make you feel more comfortable, here's a nonsensical and immature meme:
> 
> View attachment 251063


I'm usually am Jason.

:lol: When you got nothin......resort to name calling. I like it!!!

I do it often, but not in defense like you do. My name calling is an offensive maneuver.


----------



## GobbleJunky

I'm not judging...just stating my opinion on the subject. I'm entitled to my opinion, just as everyone else. And it should be ok for me to voice it, just as everyone else. I do not have to conform to new methods. I will not try to force my old-school ways on anyone, but I feel it's my duty to let folks know that there are different ways besides what you see on the videos and TV shows today. The "art" of turkey hunting is being lost with a new "instant success" generation of turkey hunters. I'm just trying to keep the older traditions alive.


----------



## RMH

GobbleJunky said:


> I'm not judging...just stating my opinion on the subject. I'm entitled to my opinion, just as everyone else. And it should be ok for me to voice it, just as everyone else. I do not have to conform to new methods. I will not try to force my old-school ways on anyone, but I feel it's my duty to let folks know that there are different ways besides what you see on the videos and TV shows today. The "art" of turkey hunting is being lost with a new "instant success" generation of turkey hunters.* I'm just trying to keep the older traditions alive*.


Then maybe try doing it without degrading other legal turkey methods. How does how others hunt affect you. Do you think that once someone reaps that they will become and addict and never chill next to a tree with a homemade turkey wing call again?

Just because that is your cup of tea does not mean it is others.

One of our very own MSF members shot a turkey reaping a couple years ago and shared his experience here.. His excitement was undeniably very positive.


----------



## Firefighter

RMH said:


> I'm usually am Jason.
> 
> :lol: When you got nothin......resort to name calling. I like it!!!
> 
> I do it often, but not in defense like you do. My name calling is an offensive maneuver.



I see no name calling but suit yourself.

Once again, you've bested me, you alpha you...


----------



## RMH

Firefighter said:


> I see no name calling but suit yourself.
> 
> Once again, you've bested me, you alpha you...


Don't be jealous Jason.

There's still a chance you'll get there. You're young and have lots of spirit, like the Little Engine That Could.


----------



## FireDoc66

When my lazy typing butt is on the road this weekend to Alabama, I'll post up the update on this I was told.


----------



## srconnell22

Just a thought, if a guy really wanted to be able to reap a gobbler, I'd bet he could do it pretty easily with a Montana deer decoy. Or better yet, a cow. 

There would be no turkey decoy involved, thus it throws the "mechanical" aspect out the window, so it would be legal. Just saying.


----------



## GVDocHoliday

I'd agree. Because you're not using visual stimulus to attract. You're using it to distract. It'd be a full on stalk.


----------



## GVDocHoliday

1. By design, does a reaping decoy use motion to provide visual stimulus to attract a turkey? 
2. Is a reaping decoy anchored to a fixed point on the ground?
3. Is the decoys only motion derived exclusively from the power of the natural wind?


----------



## timbrhuntr

GobbleJunky said:


> I'm not judging...just stating my opinion on the subject. I'm entitled to my opinion, just as everyone else. And it should be ok for me to voice it, just as everyone else. I do not have to conform to new methods. I will not try to force my old-school ways on anyone, but I feel it's my duty to let folks know that there are different ways besides what you see on the videos and TV shows today. The "art" of turkey hunting is being lost with a new "instant success" generation of turkey hunters. I'm just trying to keep the older traditions alive.


Funny because the real old school guys used a rifle if they couldn't get close. And I have a buddy in Georgia that was fanning 25 years ago he showed me way before the reaping stuff came out !



srconnell22 said:


> Just a thought, if a guy really wanted to be able to reap a gobbler, I'd bet he could do it pretty easily with a Montana deer decoy. Or better yet, a cow.
> 
> There would be no turkey decoy involved, thus it throws the "mechanical" aspect out the window, so it would be legal. Just saying.


A buddy in Ontario was sitting in a blind on a field and saw a group of turkeys out in a field he couldnt get them closer . Since his blind wasn't staked down he decided to lift it and slowly move it closer. He got to about 40 yards and shot a nice tom.


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## srconnell22

timbrhuntr said:


> A buddy in Ontario was sitting in a blind on a field and saw a group of turkeys out in a field he couldnt get them closer . Since his blind wasn't staked down he decided to lift it and slowly move it closer. He got to about 40 yards and shot a nice tom.


I've done that a half dozen times or so. Walked the blind right into the middle of a whole flock once because the one I wanted to kill was on the far side of the group. 

Also, walked a blind out into a field with decoys in the blind. Staked the decoys inside the blind and backed the blind off and to the side of the decoys so they could be seen by the gobblers. As soon as I got the blind out of the line of sight of the turkeys to the decoys, they ran right in. The hunter with me shot her gobbler at about 4 yards. 

A turkey is the dumbest game animal I know of, no question.


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## Steve

Enough.


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