# Spinning-winged decoys might be outlawed in parts of Shiawassee River State Game Area



## Water_Hazard (Aug 16, 2006)

William H Bonney said:


> Was a loss of revenue ever brought up in this "discussion"? I would have to think that even at a modest guess,, *you just eliminated HALF of your customer base*... just wondering? I don't have a dog in this fight, I stopped going to the bingo's LOOOONG before the flappers came out..


Actually, it was discussed. I'm guessing it will bring more people back to the area than it will chase away. I'm there almost every day of the season, spinners or not.


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

Water_Hazard said:


> Actually, it was discussed. I'm guessing it will bring more people back to the area than it will chase away. I'm there almost every day of the season, spinners or not.


Gotcha.


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## GoneFishin (Jan 11, 2001)

Own 2 battery operated and 2 wind operated,all are in very good condition cause I hardly ever use 'em, just a sucker for the good deals at the end of seaon.   

Wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit if they were banned.


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## KrossJr (Jan 20, 2009)

That is great news.... But the best news would be if all state game areas went to a 15 shell limit....


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## svs (Dec 3, 2008)

Let the guys that want to use spinners and see how many birds they kill as the season goes on. Might teach them something. If they want to do something they should lower the shot shell limit to 10, nothing more frustrating than guys shooting a ducks that are not even in killing range yet. Has anyone ever heard of decoying ducks???? Just my 2 cents.


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## Water_Hazard (Aug 16, 2006)

svs said:


> Has anyone ever heard of decoying ducks???? Just my 2 cents.


I think you will see alot more decoying ducks shot this year, without the robos. I also think you will be able to see the ducks work a little better. 
Last year there was a group that used alot of robos for a crutch. They never really shot at decoying birds, but would shoot at every bird 80 yards out. Lot of misses and cripples. The 25 shell limit never mattered to them either.


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## Water_Hazard (Aug 16, 2006)

svs said:


> Let the guys that want to use spinners and see how many birds they kill as the season goes on. Might teach them something. .


Just like any sport, some people never learn. If it was as simple as that, great, let them use them. However there is fields by the refuge where the birds get up and start to come toward the field, see the spinners, and head right back to the refuge. So the problem isn't that they won't kill any birds, but the people surrounding them will not kill any either. I know last year, when the front rows didn't use spinners, the kill numbers were alot higher for the field as a whole. It usually resulted with the front rows finishing up early, letting the birds continue back.


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## BucksandDucks (May 25, 2010)

Ill admit I used them but it wont bother me a bit if I cant. Now the dog will have a little more leg room in the boat.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

BucksandDucks said:


> Ill admit I used them but it wont bother me a bit if I cant. Now the dog will have a little more leg room in the boat.


For the record, I'd say 75% of the hunters I spoke to about this proposal prior to submitting it said they hate the damn things, but use them anyway because they feel they have to in order to compete with others.
I myself was in that boat. 

And regarding losing hunters...seriously doubt it because I heard from just as many people who said they've quit going to bingos specifically because of the proliferation of spinners, and they would consider coming back if they knew they were banned.


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

just ducky said:


> For the record, I'd say 75% of the hunters I spoke to about this proposal prior to submitting it said they hate the damn things, but use them anyway because they feel they have to in order to compete with others.
> I myself was in that boat.
> 
> And regarding losing hunters...seriously doubt it because I heard from just as many people who said they've quit going to bingos specifically because of the proliferation of spinners, and they would consider coming back if they knew they were banned.


As I said before,, I don't have a dog in this fight but,, I'm curious, were flappers on the top of the list for off-season discussions? 

The reason I ask is because, a lot of these posts seem contradictary. On one hand, everyone says they spook all the birds, on the other hand, folks are saying they HAD to use them to compete....

I stopped going to the bingo's at least 15 yrs. ago,, and it wasn't cause of the flappers,, it was because of the skybusting, bad calling, fights at the launch, bad rig placement/concealment,, etc. All of those issue's still remain,, even after the flapper's are gone.


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## BFG (Mar 4, 2005)

Maybe this regulation will also encourage hunters to focus their efforts more on using quality decoys (and less of them) and honing their concealment abilities. I mean seriously...when was the last time any of you saw more than a dozen or so live ducks in a group sitting together in broad daylight at a GMU on a day when guns were blazing....

I've shot limits of ducks at GMU's in the past with a very small spread of high quality decoys and no calling. However...since the inception (and yes, I have used them too since they came out) of the spinners a generation of overly-optimistic shooters has been created. Spinners will get their attention, but once they become seasoned after a couple days...they'll just do a fly by most of the time (IMO) and this is where the skybusting comes into play. 

It all comes down to respect...for the animal you are hunting, the fellow hunters with whom you are sharing the marsh, and the managed unit in which you are spending your valuable time.


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## Water_Hazard (Aug 16, 2006)

BFG said:


> Maybe this regulation will also encourage hunters to focus their efforts more on using quality decoys (and less of them) and honing their concealment abilities. I mean seriously...*when was the last time any of you saw more than a dozen or so live ducks in a group sitting together in broad daylight at a GMU on a day when guns were blazing.*...


Every day of the week, any time. Take a look at the refuge right next to the hunters. Sometimes that is what is trying to be imitated.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

William H Bonney said:


> ...The reason I ask is because, a lot of these posts seem contradictary. On one hand, everyone says they spook all the birds, on the other hand, folks are saying they HAD to use them to compete.......


To explain a bit further, it comes down to knowing when to use them, and when to put them away. Managed areas are unique in that they by nature attract a lot of what I'll call casual hunters...basically those guys who have minimal gear, and minimal time to spend in the marsh, so they go to the bingo figuring it's their best chance to get some action, and in many cases it's relatively easy to do...Fish Point for example...many units you park at the road, and walk less than 1/4 mile to your spot. These hunters also tend to be a bit less "experienced" at things like duck ID, distance ID, when to use spinners, etc. So they just come out, stick in their spinners, turn em on, and sit back and wait. If the guy next to them has two out, they want three or four. Combine that with the fact that you're crammed into a single crop field, where use of one spinner at the wrong time can ruin things for everyone, and it's a bad thing. It's been beaten to death on this and other sites that if more people knew how to read birds reactions to various things, they'd figure out real quickly when spinners are scaring birds. But way too many people just don't have that experience.

Many of what I'll call "experienced" hunters said they hate them, but they still use them, and wish they didn't have to. It's just a general mindset out there that thinks they have to use them to compete.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Water_Hazard said:


> Every day of the week, any time. Take a look at the refuge right next to the hunters. Sometimes that is what is trying to be imitated.


Yep, have had this discussion many times out in the marsh. How do the ducks know that a certain dike is the boundary to the refuge? Okay some get educated and have the intelligence to almost know which dike is the boundary. But generally these are ducks...they aren't rocket scientists. So if there are flocks of thousands in the refuge, and it's just a hop over the dike from you, it would make sense that you'd want to use lots of dekes in your spread to appear the same as the refuge.


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## BFG (Mar 4, 2005)

Well, IMO they figure out pretty damn quick where they can land and where they cannot land. I've done it both ways and in my experience a handful of quality supermags will out-decoy 4 dozen junk dekes every day of the week. 

Best times in GMU's are opening weekends (young dumb ducks) and then migration weeks (new ducks) and bad weather (cold drives them to move). Hunting these places (once again IMO) has more to do with understanding where the birds go under what wind conditions and knowing when you use your best judgement and stay home. 

I'm not even close to what I would call a good duck hunter...but I've been around the block enough to know that if you play your cards right and time your hunts right, you are able to optimize your chances and tilt the scale in your direction. 

Oh..and to keep on track here...you don't need a spinner...


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## cheeseandquackers (Jun 20, 2007)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> not gonna debate the merit of the rule being suggested. I will say this, wasn't government that brought this rule on, it was put forward by the hunters who utilize it.
> 
> all managed areas have limited rules that differ from other units or even public land....i.e. harsens has 15 shell limit. This is not a blanket rule and its a 3 year trial that will be evaluated by the hunters and discussed on its use after the trial period. Don't really see the government encroachment your describing.


O.k. guess i worded it wrong. Phooey on any sanctions imposed upon me by any entitiy that wants to control what im doing. like i said, i dont like to offer away my libertys. I do like it being a trial period and i hope it does what its intended to do.


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## cheeseandquackers (Jun 20, 2007)

Ieatantlers said:


> With no gov't encroachment, that land wouldn't be there for the public to hunt. Shiawassee River *STATE* Game Area.
> 
> Its a pretty big double standard to expect them to provide you with land, but get pissed when they regulate it differently. Now, as soon as they try pushing more regulations like this onto people hunting private land- then I agree with you. Leave it alone.


I would say that its a symbiotic relationship. With out the public funds or taxes or hunter monies these places probably wouldnt be there to hunt also. The people should be able to have a say in what laws or rules are set to govern them. A referendum sometimes is a great way to see how things like this will fare.


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## cheeseandquackers (Jun 20, 2007)

Another point to make is that even if this did do something in your area to lessen the taking of juvenile birds, the savings will be miniscule in the big picture of things. As these birds move south the places that will use robos will be slamming those juvees. If you do a three year trial, how are you going to measure the success rate?


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

cheeseandquackers said:


> Another point to make is that even if this did do something in your area to lessen the taking of juvenile birds, the savings will be miniscule in the big picture of things. As these birds move south the places that will use robos will be slamming those juvees. If you do a three year trial, how are you going to measure the success rate?


There won't be a "success rate",, there will be a "hunter satisfaction rate". The problem I see is that,, you're basically only going to be "polling" hunters that agree with the ban.


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## sthiede (Aug 31, 2004)

Water_Hazard said:


> I think you will see alot more decoying ducks shot this year, without the robos. I also think you will be able to see the ducks work a little better.
> Last year there was a group that used alot of robos for a crutch. They never really shot at decoying birds, but would shoot at every bird 80 yards out. Lot of misses and cripples. The 25 shell limit never mattered to them either.


haha you're funny and blind


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## Shlwego (Sep 13, 2006)

cheeseandquackers said:


> Another point to make is that even if this did do something in your area to lessen the taking of juvenile birds, the savings will be miniscule in the big picture of things. As these birds move south the places that will use robos will be slamming those juvees. If you do a three year trial, how are you going to measure the success rate?


I think you might be mis-interpreting why the spinning wing decoy ban at the managed areas was proposed. It is NOT about lessening the impact on the duck population - i.e. the increased take of juvenile birds over spinners. While the arguments for a national or flyway wide ban DO usually focus on the duck harvest (and that spinners are more effective on juvenile birds), this particular situation is NOT addressing that. The test ban at Shiawassee was proposed because _hunters using the area_ feel that the quality of their hunt has been compromised by the over proliferation of spinners. I hunt the managed draw areas perhaps once or twice a season, so I really don't have a dog in this fight. But it seems to me that if the guys who use these areas regularly are the ones who have been pushing for a ban, then it can't hurt to give it a try for three years. Like you said, though, I wonder what criteria they'll use to measure the success rate? Will it be a series of satisfaction polls? Will it be an increase in the number of hunter trips to the area? How much will harvest success (particularly for geese) be factored in?


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## cheeseandquackers (Jun 20, 2007)

O.k. Shlwego. I understand. I guess i was mistakenly interpreting the issue. In that case i guess i could see where it would make for a more challenging quality hunt, but i still stand on my laurels about mandates.


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