# Question about carrying the shotgun



## freezen1979 (Mar 22, 2015)

I tried doing a little research but I couldn't find much. I may call the DNR next.

I have a friend coming up from Texas and we are going to be hiking and camping in SE MI next weekend. 

one afternoon we may do a half ass squirrel hunt (more hiking, covering ground, and sight seeing, then actual squirrel focus).

I'm a resident and have my small game but he is not. I will do the shooting when it comes down to it and he will be manning the binoculars most of the time.

As we are going to be doing A LOT of walking is there any issues passing the gun (heavy ass over under) back and forth while hiking?

I have a CCW so I've never really considered gun laws in a hunting scenario. 

I know target shooting is OK at some times in some areas so can you legally carry a shotgun without a hunting license?


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Nope! 

"I was just carrying the gun" won't fly


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## jd4223 (Feb 12, 2012)

freezen1979 said:


> I tried doing a little research but I couldn't find much. I may call the DNR next.
> 
> I have a friend coming up from Texas and we are going to be hiking and camping in SE MI next weekend.
> 
> ...


`Well if he is wearing hunter orange and carrying a loaded shotgun and walking in the woods take a wild guess what DNR is going to do...Unless you're on private property with some kind of a target set up or at a gun range he can expect to be ticketed for hunting without a license. Now if he's not wearing hunter orange and is observed carrying a loaded shotgun while with you walking in the woods,I'm pretty sure he will still get a ticket with the opportunity to go to court and convince the judge of his innocence. No disrespect to men and women of the DNR but my experience is "Here's your ticket,see you in court" It's like telling the police officer"I was just holding it for my friend"


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## freezen1979 (Mar 22, 2015)

Shoeman said:


> Nope!
> 
> "I was just carrying the gun" won't fly


FYI I talked to the DNR and if the gun is unloaded it is OK.


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## freezen1979 (Mar 22, 2015)

jd4223 said:


> `Well if he is wearing hunter orange and carrying a loaded shotgun and walking in the woods take a wild guess what DNR is going to do...Unless you're on private property with some kind of a target set up or at a gun range he can expect to be ticketed for hunting without a license. Now if he's not wearing hunter orange and is observed carrying a loaded shotgun while with you walking in the woods,I'm pretty sure he will still get a ticket with the opportunity to go to court and convince the judge of his innocence. No disrespect to men and women of the DNR but my experience is "Here's your ticket,see you in court" It's like telling the police officer"I was just holding it for my friend"


I mean I see their point of view. Most of the time it would be questionable. I may just have to do all the carrying. I can tell you after 10+ miles and 1,000 ft elevation gain I've had intrusive thoughts of throwing my shotgun on the ground.


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## jd4223 (Feb 12, 2012)

freezen1979 said:


> I mean I see their point of view. Most of the time it would be questionable. I may just have to do all the carrying. I can tell you after 10+ miles and 1,000 ft elevation gain I've had intrusive thoughts of throwing my shotgun on the ground.


I know the feeling. I've had DNR questioning my son(no hunting license) who was wearing hunter orange while being with me while I was rabbit hunting. He was not hunting or carrying any firearm but was still questioned by DNR who insisted that the fact he was with me constituted him as "hunting" It wasn't until I told DNR that I was going to arrest him(I was a police officer at the time) for being a rapist since he had a *****. DNR didn't think my analogy made sense. That he had never raped anybody. I asked DNR to prove to me my son was hunting because he was wearing hunter orange and walking with me unarmed. DNR backed down and said he could have written a ticket to my son and let the court decide but since I was a police officer he was giving me a break!


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## wpmisport (Feb 9, 2010)

freezen1979 said:


> I have a friend coming up from Texas and we are going to be hiking and camping in SE MI next weekend.
> 
> As we are going to be doing A LOT of walking is there any issues passing the gun (heavy ass over under) back and forth while hiking?


Can you do a lot of hiking and hunting in SE MI? Your friend is coming from Texas and camping in the Michigan winter, guess he already knows it will be a big change in temperature/climate.
Good luck and have a good time.


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## freezen1979 (Mar 22, 2015)

wpmisport said:


> Can you do a lot of hiking and hunting in SE MI? Your friend is coming from Texas and camping in the Michigan winter, guess he already knows it will be a big change in temperature/climate.
> Good luck and have a good time.


yup. the state land around me is 60,000 acres with ~55 miles of hiking trails.

my buddy is from the big city and nature starved. he thinks he will appreciate the outdoors and cold (especially for only a weekend).


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## 22 Chuck (Feb 2, 2006)

Shoeman said:


> Nope!
> 
> "I was just carrying the gun" won't fly


And I would NOT let him carry/handle any game shot on the hunt..


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## fish2much (Oct 16, 2009)

freezen1979 said:


> I tried doing a little research but I couldn't find much. I may call the DNR next.
> 
> I have a friend coming up from Texas and we are going to be hiking and camping in SE MI next weekend.
> 
> ...


My take on the reg’s: Even if your partner is unarmed, he is still part of the “chase”. Meaning, he’s actively participating in tracking, monitoring and retrieval; leaving only the kill up to you. The price of a license is a bargain compared to a day in court fighting a highly provable losing cause. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

fish2much said:


> My take on the reg’s: Even if your partner is unarmed, he is still part of the “chase”. Meaning, he’s actively participating in tracking, monitoring and retrieval; leaving only the kill up to you. The price of a license is a bargain compared to a day in court fighting a highly provable losing cause.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


There are many guides that are on the hunt but do not have a kill license for the species that he is helping the hunter persue.


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## fish2much (Oct 16, 2009)

FREEPOP said:


> There are many guides that are on the hunt but do not have a kill license for the species that he is helping the hunter persue.


This isn’t a big-game / selected hunt scenario, where professional guides typically don’t personally carry specific kill tags. The original question posted regarded small game. Big difference in hunting techniques and overall approach. In many cases, having a 2nd person while small game hunting, armed or unarmed, can be advantageous. IMO a hunting lic is required. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

fish2much said:


> This isn’t a big-game / selected hunt scenario, where professional guides typically don’t personally carry specific kill tags. The original question posted regarded small game. Big difference in hunting techniques and overall approach. In many cases, having a 2nd person while small game hunting, armed or unarmed, can be advantageous. IMO a hunting lic is required.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


Blah, blah, blah

Seems that the CO contacted disagrees with you


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## bobberbill (Apr 5, 2011)

" It wasn't until I told DNR that I was going to arrest him(I was a police officer at the time) for being a rapist since he had a *****. DNR didn't think my analogy made sense. That he had never raped anybody. I asked DNR to prove to me my son was hunting because he was wearing hunter orange and walking with me unarmed. DNR backed down and said he could have written a ticket to my son and let the court decide but since I was a police officer he was giving me a break![/QUOTE]

That old story sure has made the rounds! Must be 100 variations.


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## jd4223 (Feb 12, 2012)

bobberbill said:


> " It wasn't until I told DNR that I was going to arrest him(I was a police officer at the time) for being a rapist since he had a *****. DNR didn't think my analogy made sense. That he had never raped anybody. I asked DNR to prove to me my son was hunting because he was wearing hunter orange and walking with me unarmed. DNR backed down and said he could have written a ticket to my son and let the court decide but since I was a police officer he was giving me a break!


That old story sure has made the rounds! Must be 100 variations.[/QUOTE]
I heard the story said by a female sitting in a boat reading. DNR pulled along side and wanted to see her fishing license because there were fishing poles in the boat. She used that analogy supposedly. I took the liberty and applied it to my encounter. I've had DNR wanting to search my vehicle because I was wearing insulated orange coveralls stating that was probable cause. When I refused him access,he threatened to impound my vehicle. Of course that didn't happen.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

jd4223 said:


> That old story sure has made the rounds! Must be 100 variations.


You refused consent.
If he really wanted to search it, he would've.


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## Macs13 (Apr 24, 2019)

Is it particularly expensive to just have him buy an out of state license? Double your limit. Etc.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app


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## jd4223 (Feb 12, 2012)

FREEPOP said:


> You refused consent.
> If he really wanted to search it, he would've.


He could have if he impounded it! Since the doors were locked and the keys in my pocket he would have had to search my person without "legal probable cause". By that I don't mean some made up story/lying in order to do a search. Now if he chose to go that route then I would have to comply and file a complaint and hire a lawyer and pursue the matter in court(criminal and civil). Most people are intimidated when it comes to dealing with authority(law enforcement) and just go along hoping to minimize any negative outcome even if they know(the citizen) they are in the right. Now with the mandate that most law enforcement agencies have to wear cameras and audio mics the playing field is more level for both the officer and citizen.


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## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

jd4223 said:


> He could have if he impounded it! Since the doors were locked and the keys in my pocket he would have had to search my person without "legal probable cause". By that I don't mean some made up story/lying in order to do a search. Now if he chose to go that route then I would have to comply and file a complaint and hire a lawyer and pursue the matter in court(criminal and civil). Most people are intimidated when it comes to dealing with authority(law enforcement) and just go along hoping to minimize any negative outcome even if they know(the citizen) they are in the right. Now with the mandate that most law enforcement agencies have to wear cameras and audio mics the playing field is more level for both the officer and citizen.


They can turn the recording device on and off at any time.
Since you were being detained, he could have easily searched you for a weapon, for his and your safety. He could've required you to provide identification. If there was nothing in the car that was in "plain sight", most likely a search warrant would be needed for a search to be legal. Or he could've let you get in the car and then pulled you over to look at your paperwork for the vehicle.


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