# Just got screwd by a crooked trainer. what would you do.



## big no no (Dec 14, 2005)

Duece22 said:


> MILL :evil:


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## lowavenger96 (Dec 8, 2004)

> this guy sells lab/ shortahir mixes and calls them pointing labs. He insists that a lab cannot point and they are all crossbred and the breeders lie. He also thinks shorthairs in field trials are crossed with english pointers. I think his name is bucceri or something like that. A real wacko
> 
> www.pointerdogs.com


 

In doing reasearch on the GSP some say they do have EP in them .



It is clear that such breeds as the German Schweisshund, Spanish Pointer, foxhound, and English Pointer were utilized to develop the DK, but the degree to which each played a role is less clear. The breed as we know it today essentially came about in the latter part of the 19th century. The first known German Shorthairs were imported into the U.S. in the 1920&#8217;&#8217;s by a Dr. Thornton in Montana. The first litter of GSP's documented as born in the USA was born on July 4, 1925, and whelped by Dr. Thornton. The breeding that produced this litter was actually accomplished in Austria. Dr. Thornton imported many more GSP's from Europe, particularly Germany, in the years to follow. The GSP parent club was formed in 1938, under the auspices of the American Kennel Club. 


http://www.westwindgsps.com/german_shorthairs_breed_history.htm
What Americans refer to as the German Shorthaired Pointer is known in Germany as simply the Kurzhaar (Shorthair) and in Europe as the Deutsch Kurzhaar. To the originators of the breed, pointing was only one of the many traits the German Shorthair should possess. Therefore a good portion of the breed&#8217;s ancestry was derived from the various hounds of the day as well as from the Spanish Pointer, English Pointer and Arkwright Pointer - that were used at various times to reinforce pointing instinct.
It would be more accurate to consider German Shorthaired Pointers, especially before 1900, as scent hunters. In Europe our breed, along with other sporting breeds, is often referred to simply as a Barque - a French word which loosely translates into &#8220;hounds hunting by scent.&#8221; The German Shorthairs of today owe their superior tracking abilities to the early introduction of scent hounds into the genetic make up of the breed.
However, one of the most common misconceptions about the GSP - that English Bloodhounds were used in putting the breed together - owes its origin to a simple translation error. Early English speaking breed historians read from original accounts that Schweisshunds (a German word that means Bloodhounds) were used and assumed that meant English Bloodhounds. Blood Scenting Hounds were an existing class of dogs developed in Germany to trail wounded big game. Specifically the Hanovarian Schweisshunds and the Wiemaraner had been developed in Germany from the St Hubert Hund and the early French Gascon Hounds.


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## 2gwps (Mar 11, 2006)

I wasn't referring to the beginning of the breed.. I suppose its possible for someone to brred a gsp with an EP and tel everyone its a GSP it would be hard to prove otherwise. But I seriousy doubt people see a need to breed a GSP with an English pointer and think they would have an advantage. Why wouldnt someone just buy an Engish pointer? 

Like i said previsouly the guy is a wacko and if you ask him he will tell you how great of a traner and breeder he is.


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## dyemen (Feb 20, 2005)

timbergsp said:


> I know chris very well
> 
> I think he is a weirdo he also tells people I train dogs for him and all thats ever happen between us is TALK we have talked about me training for him thats it
> 
> ...


This guy has taken advantage of many people......I interacted with him once or twice and he screwed a friend of mine(as well as lied, etc.....) with 2 started dogs. As I was told as well, MILL!!!

Dave


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## dyemen (Feb 20, 2005)

timbergsp said:


> I know chris very well
> 
> I think he is a weirdo he also tells people I train dogs for him and all thats ever happen between us is TALK we have talked about me training for him thats it
> 
> ...


This guy has taken advantage of many people......I interacted with him once or twice and he screwed a friend of mine(as well as lied, etc.....) with 2 started dogs. As I was told as well, MILL!!!

Dave


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## Bear Creek (Feb 9, 2003)

2gwps said:


> I wasn't referring to the beginning of the breed.. I suppose its possible for someone to brred a gsp with an EP and tel everyone its a GSP it would be hard to prove otherwise. But I seriousy doubt people see a need to breed a GSP with an English pointer and think they would have an advantage. Why wouldnt someone just buy an Engish pointer?
> 
> Like i said previsouly the guy is a wacko and if you ask him he will tell you how great of a traner and breeder he is.


There's an easy answer to your question why someone would cross and EP with a GSP. It's called competition. I don't know this breeder nor do I care to but its one of the worst kept secerts in the dog world, GSP's were crossed with pointers for many years. I'm sure it is still going on today. GSP breeders wanting to compete in high stakes field trials crossed their GSP's with EP to get more run and better stamina. There are many people out there that will do anything to WIN!! It's that simple. If you don't believe that look at pictures of GSP's brought to this country after WWII, then look at pictures of the top GSP lines out there today, they look like to different breeds, why because of cross breeding.

BC


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## DEERHNTR (Mar 12, 2004)

This past weekend Len had two dogs that were raffled off at the Bay/Mid Pheasants Forever Banquet. Althought they were raffled off for a good cause, I had to shake my head in disbelief these people bought these two dogs without seeing one bit of information them. This guy has puppies everywhere I go!


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## jlock (Feb 24, 2006)

I think he sells pointing rabbits !!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Denise LaFave Smith (Jun 26, 2017)

dyemen said:


> This guy has taken advantage of many people......I interacted with him once or twice and he screwed a friend of mine(as well as lied, etc.....) with 2 started dogs. As I was told as well, MILL!!!
> 
> Dave


Please contact me. I represent a person who is being sued by Bucceri. (517) 485-3595. Your help would be appreciated.


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## Denise LaFave Smith (Jun 26, 2017)

2gwps said:


> this guy sells lab/ shortahir mixes and calls them pointing labs. He insists that a lab cannot point and they are all crossbred and the breeders lie. He also thinks shorthairs in field trials are crossed with english pointers. I think his name is bucceri or something like that. A real wacko
> 
> www.pointerdogs.com


Please contact me. I represent a person who is being sued by Bucceri. (517) 485-3595. Your help would be appreciated.


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## Denise LaFave Smith (Jun 26, 2017)

dyemen said:


> This guy has taken advantage of many people......I interacted with him once or twice and he screwed a friend of mine(as well as lied, etc.....) with 2 started dogs. As I was told as well, MILL!!!
> 
> Dave


Please contact me. I represent a person who is being sued by Bucceri. (517) 485-3595. Your help would be appreciated.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

Denise LaFave Smith said:


> Please contact me. I represent a person who is being sued by Bucceri. (517) 485-3595. Your help would be appreciated.


You do realize these posts are over 11 years old so the authors may not be checking them regularly.


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## St. Clair Slayer (Aug 31, 2009)

LJ got me too. Wish I was on MS back in the late 1990's. Paid top dollar for a started pup that was 16 weeks old. At 15 months the vet took x-ray of her hips because I told him she would just stop walking after an hour of running. Turns out she had the hips of a 10-12 year old dog. LJ told me that he had a 1 year guarantee but would do me a favor and replace the dog with a new one for half price if I would give him the dog back so he could destroy her. My hunting dog became a family pet. I learned forom that experience. DONT GIVE THIS CROOK YOUR TIME OR HARD EARNED MONEY HE IS A DECIETFUL PERSON WITH NO MORAL COMPASS.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

Wow.Hopefully with social media and search engines on the net bad breeders will be a thing of the past.Everytime I hear someone talk about the money they could make from breeding a dog I turn my head and walk away.And then when I hear someone talk about the standards of two dogs to be breed I turn my head and listen.The worst is when some says I have a pedigree lab does yours have papers "let's breed them".papers don't represent standards like people think.Sometimes you just need to take them and wipe then flush.I wish everyone had the knowledge of breeding importance that I learned from my grandfather being a serious horse and pointer man otherwise I would probably have fallen victim over the years.8 healthy dogs over the years so far.knock on wood!!


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

Wow.Hopefully with social media and search engines on the net bad breeders will be a thing of the past.Everytime I hear someone talk about the money they could make from breeding a dog I turn my head and walk away.And then when I hear someone talk about the standards of two dogs to be breed I turn my head and listen.The worst is when some says I have a pedigree lab does yours have papers "let's breed them".papers don't represent standards like people think.Sometimes you just need to take them and wipe then flush.I wish everyone had the knowledge of breeding importance that I learned from my grandfather being a serious horse and pointer man otherwise I would probably have fallen victim over the years.8 healthy dogs over the years so far.knock on wood!!


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

Denise LaFave Smith said:


> Please contact me. I represent a person who is being sued by Bucceri. (517) 485-3595. Your help would be appreciated.


Your best bet to contact these folks is to use the private message system.good luck


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## Worm Dunker (Sep 11, 2000)

I disagree with buying puppies at shows. I've had 5 setters three bought directly from Fred Troast puppy days and one I breed from one of the females I got at the show. My fifth setter is a Dunn Roven/Shaddy Hills I got direct from Rich at Dunn Roven Kennels. Yes I was lucky with my first setter because I knew nothing about setters I was a lab and short tail owner before I saw the light. I didn't know setters but I knew breeding papers and when there is 6 Ch. in the first two lines good chance for a good pup. Many of the older members here have hunted over my setters and some even bought setter because of them. Good breeding is good breeding rather you but it from a show, back yard breeder, or from somebody like Rich at Dunn Roven who is known for hunting and trial dogs. Hybrids no such thing Labber Doodles are just mutts.


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## glenlivet (Aug 26, 2016)

The best dog I ever had or probably will ever have came from LJ. No idea who he was at the time or what he was doing. I've had 2 since that dog and didn't go back either time. One dog, I got at a show, she is a good little bird dog. the other is from a pretty reputable breeder, he is ok. So I truly believe its luck of the draw.


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## Lucky Dog (Jul 4, 2004)

Bear Creek said:


> There's an easy answer to your question why someone would cross and EP with a GSP. It's called competition. I don't know this breeder nor do I care to but its one of the worst kept secerts in the dog world, GSP's were crossed with pointers for many years. I'm sure it is still going on today. GSP breeders wanting to compete in high stakes field trials crossed their GSP's with EP to get more run and better stamina. There are many people out there that will do anything to WIN!! It's that simple. If you don't believe that look at pictures of GSP's brought to this country after WWII, then look at pictures of the top GSP lines out there today, they look like to different breeds, why because of cross breeding.
> 
> BC


Interesting. And all my life I thought the GSP EP cross was made to put more hunt / bird finding ability back into the pointers.


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