# smoked fish question ?



## yonderfishin (Oct 18, 2008)

I finally got around to modifying my brinkman charcoal smoker to bring down the heat a little so I can smoke fish instead of basically cooking it with charcoal. I took a short metal file cabinet , burned it out on a fire to remove most of the paint and anything that could give off chemicals or off flavors , then coated the inside with vegetable oil and cured it with heat and smoke from fires inside it. Then I ran a piece of 4" semi rigid tubing from there to my smoker. It brought down the heat really well but still gets up to a little over 100 degrees in the smoker. 

I tried smoking my first batch of salmon I bought at aldis. With this first batch I realized I didnt add enough salt to the brine and probably didnt let the fish brine long enough but that wasnt the problem. The problem is the fish came out with way too much smoke flavor , instead of tasting like smoked fish Ive had many times before , it tastes like well.........just smoke , HEAVY smoke. I am using apple wood to smoke it and that usually works good but is it possible to have just way too much smoke ? The thing belched a huge amount of white smoke for the 4 to 6 hours I had the fish in there but I never thought you could possibly have too much smoke. I think I may have had too big of a bed of coals inside the smoke box and I put 2 or 3 foot long pieces of wood on the coals about 3 times during the smoke. Do I need to have a smaller bed of coals in the burn box and use way less wood in smaller pieces when it needs more ? Any tips or info is appreciated.


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## eyeball (Dec 23, 2011)

Good rule of thumb for salt in your brine is put just enough salt in there to float an egg. 24 hrs in the brine. 180 -220 dg. In smoker for 4 hours or so.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


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## yonderfishin (Oct 18, 2008)

eyeball said:


> Good rule of thumb for salt in your brine is put just enough salt in there to float an egg. 24 hrs in the brine. 180 -220 dg. In smoker for 4 hours or so.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Ohub Campfire mobile app


 
Yeah I was hesitant with the salt because I need to cut back but now I realize the flavor is just not there unless there is enough salt. Even as it was though it would have been ok except for the smoke was just too strong for some reason. I remember when I was a kid my dad smoked fish all the time , going for a more dry smoke "cured" version he would smoke them all day and the fish tasted great , so the only thing I can think of is I might have had "too much " smoke ??? If there is such a thing , ....is there ?


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

If the smoke resulting flavor is too much for your taste then yes there must be such a thing as too much. You need a final temperature in meats if hotsmoking and at that point you can pull it but you want your preferred flavor by then also. Economy of your applewood or any other will increase with less also. With soaked wood less too. Back the wood down or smoke a shorter time. Experiment with your new outfit but an all day or long smoke would require a much milder smoke volume from what yours reads like.
A couple hours may have been too long even on your test batch due to amount of smoke.


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## DEDGOOSE (Jan 19, 2007)

Most times heavy smoke flavor is a result of badly managed fire.. Thin blue to no smoke is good smoke but I do not know if that is possible on an ECB, have not used one in a long time. 

What wood?

Alder and maple are very mild.. Hickory Mesquite oak are stronger. 

You can smoke for the first portion and than pull the wood as mentioned. 

Another thing, make a tin foil pack fill it with chips and poke one hole in the top.. It will limit the amount of smoke that can reach your meat. 

When I started smoking I had a Mr Meat water smoker basically the same as your ECB.. The guy that gave it to me, got sick of the charcoal portion of it. So he rigged a old propane stove burner up to provide the heat.. Set a cast iron pan on top and filled with chips.. It worked great and was easy to control temp.. 

You speak of holding heat down? How you lighting/arranging your charcoal? Have you tried filling the firebox and than placing a handful of lit coals in the middle.. (minion method)


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## yonderfishin (Oct 18, 2008)

DEDGOOSE said:


> Most times heavy smoke flavor is a result of badly managed fire.. Thin blue to no smoke is good smoke but I do not know if that is possible on an ECB, have not used one in a long time.
> 
> What wood?
> 
> ...


The firebox is a small modified file cabinet that has a 4 inch pipe going into the smoker. I am using pieces of crab apple ( which by the reports Ive read are the same as regular apple for smoking ) wood roughly a foot long and one or two inches in diameter. I built a large bed of coals and then after I put the fish in the smoker I started laying the wood in the coals about 2 or 3 at a time inside the firebox. I was trying to copy how my dad made smoked fish , though he used pin cherry wood and a larger smoker made from an old refridgerator. I took the heat source out of the smoker itself because the way it was what I ended up with was basically a moist cooked fish with a smoky flavor , but what I want is a dryer textured fish that is a little more smoke "cured" and less heat cooked , like my dad used to make. By the end of the smoke it should have got hot enough so that its safe to eat but a very different texture from what you would get "cooking" the fish with just heat. So it should need a long smoke time , but less smoke apparently. I just didnt know there was such a thing as too much smoke. 

Thanks for the replies guys , I will try to incorporate all the suggestions into my next attempts.


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## DEDGOOSE (Jan 19, 2007)

I have only made smoked fish a handful of times, but I know exactly what you are getting at.. Whenever I buy it I am disappointed, its always really moist and I guess gooey.. When I did it and other times I have had it where I liked it, it was dried out.. I like the drier texture better than moist texture.. I guess its more fish jerky than smoked fish.. Maybe we are the weird ones. :lol:

As for the smoke crabapple is fine.. Your wood may not be fully dry, green wood can give a oversmoked campfire taste.. I would go buy a bag of alder (staple in NW for fish) or maple chips and try the tinfoil suggestion.


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## CrankYanker (Aug 20, 2011)

I think apple can get strong. Many will disagree. My favorite is cherry. Second is maple for fish. Use your apple on some ribs. Don't need much fire for fish, just smoke!


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## Woodbutcher-1 (Nov 21, 2004)

IMO, you are using way, way to much wood. The amount of wood you said
you used ( 2 to 3 foot long pieces 3 times in about 4 hrs)? That was enough wood to smoke 2 hogs.

Like DEADGOOSE mentioned, you want TBS...Thin...Blue...Smoke, NOT that white to grayish crap that tastes like creosote. I use 1 to 2 fist size pieces of for my smoke.

Hickory for all pork products.
Apple,Wild Cherry,Peach,Apricot, Pear for poultry ,fish and most beef.

Soaking wood in water for hours or even overnight,does absolutely nothing more than give you you that white billowing smoke that tastes like CRAP.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

Woodbutcher-1 said:


> IMO, you are using way, way to much wood. The amount of wood you said
> you used ( 2 to 3 foot long pieces 3 times in about 4 hrs)? That was enough wood to smoke 2 hogs.
> 
> Like DEADGOOSE mentioned, you want TBS...Thin...Blue...Smoke, NOT that white to grayish crap that tastes like creosote. I use 1 to 2 fist size pieces of for my smoke.
> ...


Really hickory for pork? I tried it a few times and it seems too Smokey. I love cherry and maple. Apple is ok. I gotta try alder tho


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## Ralph Smith (Apr 1, 2003)

In your first post, you say you only get a little over 100 degrees? That's not hot enough to smoke/cook the fish. You should get alteast to 140 or above. As far as salt, I hardly put any in mine when I"ve done it. I hate real salty stuff, and the fish doesn't have to be kept real long before its eaten anyway. The commercially sold stuff have regulations on amounts of salt and so on that must be used to be sold to the public, but making it yourself you do not. It will taste a lot better with half or less of the salt than the recipe calls for. I also smoke only the fillets and not with the skin on. This makes for the firmer/drier smoked fish, plus you can remove that nasty lateral line(dark meat) that tastes terrible:fish2: I just use an elec. smoker with the dry hickory woodchips. A couple panfulls is all for the smoke, then the rest of time is curing/cooking time. You can cold smoke things without the heat, but they must be cooked somehow at high enough temp before eating them. Good luck, and keep at it and you'll get it down


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

Ralph Smith said:


> In your first post, you say you only get a little over 100 degrees? That's not hot enough to smoke/cook the fish. You should get alteast to 140 or above. As far as salt, I hardly put any in mine when I"ve done it. I hate real salty stuff, and the fish doesn't have to be kept real long before its eaten anyway. The commercially sold stuff have regulations on amounts of salt and so on that must be used to be sold to the public, but making it yourself you do not. It will taste a lot better with half or less of the salt than the recipe calls for. I also smoke only the fillets and not with the skin on. This makes for the firmer/drier smoked fish, plus you can remove that nasty lateral line(dark meat) that tastes terrible:fish2: I just use an elec. smoker with the dry hickory woodchips. A couple panfulls is all for the smoke, then the rest of time is curing/cooking time. You can cold smoke things without the heat, but they must be cooked somehow at high enough temp before eating them. Good luck, and keep at it and you'll get it down


Damn Ralph, now you got me wanting to pick up some frozen salmon fillets and get it in the brine....


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## TVCJohn (Nov 30, 2005)

When I was stationed out in Oregon smoking was a big thing. An old timer gave me some of his salmon and I liked it. Here is his recipe. 

2/3 cup of sugar
1/3 cup non-iodized salt
2 cups of soy sauce
1 cup of water
1 cup of dry white wine
2 tsp of granulated onion
2 tsp granulated garlic
2 tsp pepper
2 tsp tabsco sauce
1 tbsp of cayenne
1 tsp MSG

Brine salmon 8 or more hours (he prefers two days)
Smoking time varies depending on heat, low and slow....maybe 10-12 hours if big chunks are being smoked
Brine can be used twice

I had some smoked silvers in Kodiak and that version had pineapple chunks and pineapple juice in the mix. I think it was soy and teriyaki too?? That was great too if you like a tad sweet taste. I've sprinkled some brown sugar on the meat too and that was good. No doubt lots of concoctions you can play with.


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## yonderfishin (Oct 18, 2008)

Ralph Smith said:


> In your first post, you say you only get a little over 100 degrees? That's not hot enough to smoke/cook the fish. You should get alteast to 140 or above. As far as salt, I hardly put any in mine when I"ve done it. I hate real salty stuff, and the fish doesn't have to be kept real long before its eaten anyway. The commercially sold stuff have regulations on amounts of salt and so on that must be used to be sold to the public, but making it yourself you do not. It will taste a lot better with half or less of the salt than the recipe calls for. I also smoke only the fillets and not with the skin on. This makes for the firmer/drier smoked fish, plus you can remove that nasty lateral line(dark meat) that tastes terrible:fish2: I just use an elec. smoker with the dry hickory woodchips. A couple panfulls is all for the smoke, then the rest of time is curing/cooking time. You can cold smoke things without the heat, but they must be cooked somehow at high enough temp before eating them. Good luck, and keep at it and you'll get it down


Well I dont have a meat thermometer , Im just going by the one built into the smoker , which is notoriously untrustworthy but Im sure its getting atleast a little over 100 degrees. I can always finish it by taking it higher in the oven later to be sure its safe to eat. But what I am going for is closer to a cold smoke which comes from smoking at lower temps for a longer time. I know there has to be something mid way between hot smoking that many people do which produces basically cooked fish with a smoky flavor and the old time cold smoke that people used to do to preserve the fish , that has more of a drier texture almost fish jerky but not quite. Ive made smoked fish before that came out tasting good but it was too moist and flaky , basically like any cooked fish but with a smoke flavor on the outside with not much smoke penetrating the meat. Seems like having a higher temperature would fully cook the fish too soon sealing out much of the smoke from penetrating the meat ? Thats why they used to preserve meat with cold smoke.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

yonderfishin said:


> Well I dont have a meat thermometer , Im just going by the one built into the smoker , which is notoriously untrustworthy but Im sure its getting atleast a little over 100 degrees. I can always finish it by taking it higher in the oven later to be sure its safe to eat. But what I am going for is closer to a cold smoke which comes from smoking at lower temps for a longer time. I know there has to be something mid way between hot smoking that many people do which produces basically cooked fish with a smoky flavor and the old time cold smoke that people used to do to preserve the fish , that has more of a drier texture almost fish jerky but not quite. Ive made smoked fish before that came out tasting good but it was too moist and flaky , basically like any cooked fish but with a smoke flavor on the outside with not much smoke penetrating the meat. Seems like having a higher temperature would fully cook the fish too soon sealing out much of the smoke from penetrating the meat ? Thats why they used to preserve meat with cold smoke.


I like the drier texture too. If I remember correctly I do mine at about 185 for about 5 hours. Just let it go longer and you will get the consistency you're referring to. Just have to dry it out more. Keep the temp up though and you'll be fine.


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## Ralph Smith (Apr 1, 2003)

jiggin is livin said:


> I like the drier texture too. If I remember correctly I do mine at about 185 for about 5 hours. Just let it go longer and you will get the consistency you're referring to. Just have to dry it out more. Keep the temp up though and you'll be fine.


Yep, I just use one of the "big chief" elec. smokers, and it says it gets to 170. I don't have a thermometer on it, but it gets plenty of smoke in the fish after 2 or 3 pans of chips which each smoke for about 2 hours(some heavy, some light). Then the rest of time(about 8 hours total) is drying to get the consistency like you've described. It dries out much better with just the fillets also and no skin on. There's also articles where I've seen fish dried by packing in salt and hanging in a mesh bag for about a week outside. That might be something you can look up after smoking it. I know any cold smoked stuff should be still cooked. I think the old smokehouses and cold smoking still used heat at the end to finish it off, not sure never did it.


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## yonderfishin (Oct 18, 2008)

Thanks everybody for the advice. I am probably just overthinking it. I will turn up the heat and turn down the smoke and give it a try.


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## Ralph Smith (Apr 1, 2003)

yonderfishin said:


> Thanks everybody for the advice. I am probably just overthinking it. I will turn up the heat and turn down the smoke and give it a try.


Just remember that if you don't like how it comes out smoked, you can always then can it


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

yonderfishin said:


> Thanks everybody for the advice. I am probably just overthinking it. I will turn up the heat and turn down the smoke and give it a try.


Can't hurt. You didn't like the way it was before. Try something new. Don't use a water pan either. And like Ralph said no skin if you don't want to wait all day. I did mine for just over 5 hours and it turned out pretty good but the thick pieces were still a bit most. I like the edges where it's like jerky like you said. I'm sure if I had the time it would get there.


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## TVCJohn (Nov 30, 2005)

Ralph Smith said:


> Just remember that if you don't like how it comes out smoked, you can always then can it


Can always make a smoked fish dip too. That stuff is excellent on crackers.


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## DEDGOOSE (Jan 19, 2007)

On the topic of Thermometers.. Most Bi-Metallic thermometers cannot be trusted. They can be along ways off.. 

If your value minded I would look at a Maverick ET 85. It reads both pit temp and meat temp. 

If you wanna a upgrade a Maverick ET 732, it to measures both pit and meat temp and has remote capability that allows you to do other things. 

For spot checking I have a MaverickPT100 I love with 2-3 sec read out. Thermoworks a company that offers high quality thermometers recently released its Thermopop. A 5-6 second thermometer getting rave reviews a priced at a great price 29.00..


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## DEDGOOSE (Jan 19, 2007)

jiggin is livin said:


> Really hickory for pork? I tried it a few times and it seems too Smokey. I love cherry and maple. Apple is ok. I gotta try alder tho


Hickory can be strong with bad fire management, but with a good clean burning fire I like it on pork and even poultry.. Its definitely is stronger than fruit woods. Try pecan instead still a form of hickory but a milder flavor than hickory itself.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

DEDGOOSE said:


> Hickory can be strong with bad fire management, but with a good clean burning fire I like it on pork and even poultry.. Its definitely is stronger than fruit woods. Try pecan instead still a form of hickory but a milder flavor than hickory itself.


So far my favorite is cherry maple blend. But I hear good things about alder. I've used oak on steaks. YUM. Thanks for the heads up on the pecan. I only had hickory once on ribs and my buddy did it so maybe it was too heavy. I just never used it after that. Maybe I should give it a try.


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