# muzzle loader beginner



## Jet08 (Aug 21, 2007)

Tracker83 said:


> I disagree with one of the suggestions above to double your budget of $300. You can get a blued/black Omega or a blued/black Accura for $300, and either one would be an excellent starter gun.


X2 on that. I shoot and absolutly love my Omega. Great gun for the cost


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## Jet08 (Aug 21, 2007)

mike the pike said:


> Yes i make a killing shot everytime, I HAVE TOO, I ONLY HAVE 1 BULLET- if i dont have the shot i'm looking for i let it walk ..thats what i was talking about with the 1/2 to an hour of range time just b4 the season (and honing my skills thru out w/ varmit and target etc) . I dont take marginal shots , i'm not a military sniper and not a back woods huckleberry either, i'm a meat hunter and if a trophy comes by then i'm a trophy hunter . I take killing an animal seriously , if it has to give up his life to feed my family, i'm going to make sure its done fast and humanely. I dont like walking 100's of yards to chase a gut shot deer, and i'm sure you dont either
> 
> You have me wrong- just because somebody carries up to 5 bullets doesnt make them a jackass...its when i'm sitting on the other side of the woods and "they" unleash the 5 bullets without knowing where those bullets are going is the problem:yikes:. All "they" had to do is give the deer the " bahhhh" let him stop and squeeze the trigger and they wouldnt have to spray like a street sweeper.


Sounds like we are on the same page, being a responsible hunter comes first. Anything else is reckless and inhuman.


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## ctsdaxx (Mar 11, 2005)

Jet08 said:


> Sounds like we are on the same page, being a responsible hunter comes first. Anything else is reckless and inhuman.


Ditto. I am sure that you will not find many out there that are seriously going to try and wound an animal but I can also understand the youngster or first timer that gets caught up in the " Horns " game and starts racking them off not really knowing were there shots are hitting. In due time I think every hunter evolves and gets better and better with his patience and finally ends up in the boat where you enjoy to watch and wait for that perfect shot that you can pick out a hair right behind that front shoulder on a beautiful quartering away shot. But I do understand also that not everyone gets the amount of time in the woods to hone those skills. It is not just range time that accounts for all "unloading" of you firearm. Again I do understand what you are saying just think it was a little brash to groupd everyone into one category. Alot of different circumstances can and will go on in the woods, the main thing is to be safe and have fun.

Back on subject though, If it were up to me I would take mike the pike up on his offer if he could find a good used TC. You know what you are getting, and usually it is just because the person wants to upgrade, lack of funds, or lack of knowledge that the weapon is being sold. Good luck and like mike said whichever way you decide to go make sure you get out to a range before hand and run some loads through it to see what loads are best for the gun and are best for you. All guns will shoot better with different loads whether it be 250 gr with 150 of powder or 200 with 150 or 100 grains powder just takes time at the range to figure out what is best. Make sure you clean your barrel when sighting in also could make a huge difference in your accuracy.

Josh


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## mike the pike (Mar 11, 2008)

Purchased last year 12 shots thru it


08` Thompson center omega z5 (non thumbhole) .50 caliber, black synthetic stock with a blued barrel... w/ a Leupold 1-4 vx-1 scope and sling for $500.00

I'll keep looking and see what friends and such arent into blackpowder anymore.

www.thompsoncenter.com


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## frontier gander (Aug 26, 2006)

IMO - when you get cocky and tell everyone that you only carry one shot with you, thats when those perfect shots start turning into gut shots. Any animal you hunt deserves a second shot if its needed. i carry 3 speed loaders + the charge in my barrel.

Plus when you have an elk and deer tag in your pocket, you're going to need more than 1 shot unless you can pull off some trick shooting and bounce the bullet off rocks and tree after it passed through your deer so it will then hit the elk.


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## mike the pike (Mar 11, 2008)

frontier gander said:


> IMO - when you get cocky and tell everyone that you only carry one shot with you, thats when those perfect shots start turning into gut shots. Any animal you hunt deserves a second shot if its needed. i carry 3 speed loaders + the charge in my barrel.
> 
> Plus when you have an elk and deer tag in your pocket, you're going to need more than 1 shot unless you can pull off some trick shooting and bounce the bullet off rocks and tree after it passed through your deer so it will then hit the elk.


 

First of all the 08 deer season wasnt my 1st , i've been shooting since i was 6 , and deer hunting since i was 14 (25 years) so i'm quite confident and able to only need to shoot once at a deer. Yes i carry speed loader , but dont need them unless i plan on filling my doe tag.

Sorry if you think i'm cocky. i'm not ...just a good marksman. Where in any of this thread does it say that i only carry 1 shot ?????


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## Roosevelt (Sep 21, 2007)

appkorn123 said:


> I think $600 is a lot of money to by a gun for a first time user. At my skill level (none with muzzleloading) I really don't think I will be able to tell the difference between a good and bad muzzleloader. At this stage I think it is more important for me to get a rifle that is easy to clean/maintain so that I get use to all the prep/shooting of blackpowder gun.


 
appkorn123, 

I think you're on the right track. Plus, for all the accessories that go along w' the muzzy; i.e.., Cleaning kit, field tools, bullets, primers, powder. That'll run ya a good 100.00 or more right there.

When I got back into it last fall I wanted to spend a little extra and get the solid SS. The Accura was the best deal on a "solid" SS muzzy by far. I got mine on sale w' a new hard gun case, cleaning kit, accessories and a bunch of powder and bullets. Altogether I was well under 500.00. Gander mtn in Novi. I think the gun was 329.00 after a 40.00 rebate.

The blued Accura is a-ok too but you just got to put a little more effort into keeping it clean. I looked at the CVA wolf as well as some lower end Remington, Traditions, Knight, T/C and for the money the Accura was the best deal going and High quality too. Very easy to clean and keep up and extremely accurate w' the recommended bullets and load.

I'm a cheap SOB and if I was gonna buy any muzzy it would cost 300.00 or more. The ones that are under 200.00 just don't have what it takes. i.e. plastic sights, hard to break down and clean, wrong feel, etc.etc.

BTW, I'd buy new cuz you have no idea what kind of crazy loads, etc. someone may have put thru a used one. When I was at the range a feller put two loads in, bullets and all and on top of that fired his ramrod out the end of the gun. when he fired it just about knocked him off the bench. I doubt that gun is still safe to use.


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## Roosevelt (Sep 21, 2007)

BTW, you should seriously check out www.modermuzzleloader.com. You'll get alot less "one shot BS" and alot more useful info.


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## mike the pike (Mar 11, 2008)

How many shots are you going to get off after the 1st has gone off??? That deer is on a full trot and your fumbling trying to reload your 1 shot muzzleloader while watching where it went to? That is the importance of the 1st shot. Yes www.modernmuzzleloader.com is a great site, for information


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## UkiahDog (May 12, 2008)

go to www.migunowners.com . You can find some used muzzleloaders there right now for a great deal. Complete packages.

If you buy a knight, don't get one that uses the disks. Or if you do make sure to get enough to last the rest of your life. 

Another good site. Really better than modern muzzloader.com IMO, if you like technical discussion is this one: http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2h.muzzleloader.htm

This is not a forum and is done by a professional. You will get a lot of professional information.

And, with a muzzleloader, you'll only get one shot.... So it's not "one shot BS". I've seen one video w/Jeff Foxworthy, of all people, who got multiple shots on a deer before it bolts. It's very rare, and not to be counted on. Reloading before you track the deer is not a bad idea though. If you hit a deer, it's gonna run.... So where's the follow up shot come in?? That part of this thread is kind of a joke...... It takes too long to load the darn gun and that deer's out of sight. So, load the shot, wait a half hour or hour depending on the shot and track the deer with a loaded gun. If you want rapid follow up shot's get a semi auto rifle or shotgun.... By the way, I carry 3 measured powder loads in plastic tubes, and the bullets are in my pocket....

I have a T/C Triumph. I looked at the CVA's and they seemed cheap. They felt cheap and looked cheap. I'm sure they sell more because they are, you can buy them for less money generally. Same thing with the Remington. Felt and looked cheap. Do yourself a favor and make sure to get some type of a breakaway stock/barrel configuration. When I got mine there was one muzzleloader scope option for around $250. If you want to save money, I think Cabela's and Leupold make on now too. By the muzzleloader specific, or a cheap handgun if you want because you're gonna want a lot of eye relief. More than a shotgun scope. Unless you like hitting your face with the scope.... It happens, and anyone who's shot their muzzleloader a lot has done it!! I have... I've seen Jim Shockey do it on TV...

The main reason I would get a T/C over a CVA is the Speed Breach. You can remove the breach by hand... no tools. This is a huge advantage, especially if you decide to use a 777 or pyrodex pellet, which is a dirty powder. I use Blackhorn 209, it's the best out there. If you start off using a non hygroscopic powder that is loose (ie. not a powder that cleans with spit, or specifically 777), you'll be happier as you will be more consistent. If you can clean it with water, then therefore it will absorb water, and be affected by exposure to any humidity and not store well. Has anyone here ever weighed all the pellets in a box? I have.... Anyone in the know will not argue with that, or that Blackhorn is the real deal.

Seriously though, the two links on here are the best info you've been given thus far. There are at least 2 T/C's on this site as of now, and chuckhawk is far better than any forum you'll find.... Have fun!!!


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## pikemaster789 (Aug 21, 2008)

Im in the same boat as you, looking to start into muzzle loading this fall. I havnt decided what I am going to get yet but CVA has some pretty good scope/rifle deals in the 300's with some of their popular models. http://www.cva.com/outfits-rifle-scope.html. 
They come with a Bushnell 3-9 x 32 scope. Anyone know if this is a good scope?
And what kind of barrel is best in the weather? nickel, SS..etc.
Ive also looked at T/C too


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## UkiahDog (May 12, 2008)

3-9x32? Does't sound like a good scope... What's it cost? Don't get too cheap of a scope with your muzzleloader or else you'll just wind up buying a new, more expensive one.

Rather than look online I would recommend going to a gun shop and handling the CVA and T/C. Tht's what it's gonna take. I'm sure they'll have that scope there to compare also, I think it's like a $125 scope, so they'll have a lot of scopes in that range. But, I would buy a shotgun or realistically a muzzleloader scope, as that is what you are using, and if not....have fun!

I'm pretty sure Cabela's just started to make a muzzleloader scope.

Again, www.migunowners.com. You can find a few good muzzleloaders used right now, nothing wrong with used! Especially when you're starting.


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## frontier gander (Aug 26, 2006)

i use the Bushnell Trophy3-9x40 scope on my CVA Accura. CVA offers a couple scopes that is the Bushnell Sharpshooter.


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## Huntmich (Sep 4, 2008)

I have a cva optima that at 100 yds will shoot a 1.5" group and at 150 yds it'll shoot a 2" group. I can't remember what I paid for it, but it wasn't a whole lot and it outshot both my cousins and uncles Thompson Omegas. They couldn't get them to shoot worth a damn. A lot of people say CVA's are junk, but I love my everything about the optima and the price is right. 

As for the scopes, I'd stay away from bass pro's and cabelas scopes on a muzzleloader. I had a basspro muzzleloader scope and the thing sucked. After about 3 months I had something rattling around in it, the dial on the top had the marking plate fall off(i don't think it had clicks) and there was something on the glass on the inside. It looked like some kind of oil and i thought it was gun oil on the outside but it was on the inside. 

I'd go with an optima and a nikon prostaff scope or maybe a bushnell trophy scope. That should keep you right around 300, but like someone said cleaning stuff, powder, sabots, and accesories are going to cost you another 100 or so.


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## SPH (Jan 20, 2004)

If you are going to shoot 100yrds. or less I think almost any modern muzzle loader will work good. You could probably pick up a Traditions or even a Knite(yes I know they went out of business) for $150.00 and put a Nikon Prostaff 3x9x40 on for under $300.00.

If you like it and want to upgrade in the future you already have a decent scope.


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## UkiahDog (May 12, 2008)

100yds or less? Use a Hawken:lol::lol:

If you plan on shooting at 100 or less then buy whatever you want, I don't think it's gonna matter that much really. Most people accept that an inline muzzleloader can be accurate out to 250.

That's good to know about the cheap muzzie scope. I have a Nikon Omega, their muzzie scope, and I thinkk Leupold just started to make a "Shockey" edition around that same price.

Regardless, the accuracy thing is a little overplayed, especially with a muzzleloader. The variables in loads and shooter ability has so much more to do with it than just dropping in a cartridge and going to town.

From my bench rest, my T/C Triumph shoots 110 grain of Blackgorn 209, Winchester primer, a Barnes 275grain XPB at 1 MOA. Due to the diameter of the bullet, they are darn near stacked on top of each other. I think yo're just a better shooter than your friends. Next time you go out with them shoot thier guns too, You'll probably shoot thier own guns better than they do!!


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