# The Updated Steelhead Poll



## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

Fishbone said:


> :lol:




Basically, the size of a steelhead has nothing to do with how many are in a river and the idea of increasing the limit in the rivers to cull out smaller fish is a bit difficult to grasp. Steelhead size is dictated by the amount of forage and weather/water conditions in the Great Lakes. Hatchery steelhead are planted in the rivers in April, and outmigrate/smolt by early June so their impact on forage base in the rivers is minimal. On creeks/streams with natural reproduction, the forage base will dictate how many parr survive and eventually smolt after a year in the river. Whether a fish is 5lbs or 10lbs when they return to their natal river system is not dependent on sources of food in the river, but the big lake itself. 

Ultimately, other than humans, salmon are the apex predator in Lake Michigan and become the steelhead's largest opponent when it comes to competition for prey, such as alewives. More forage equates to larger steelhead.


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## born2fish (Aug 1, 2005)

Flyfisher said:


> From a river fisherman's point of view (ie opinion), I would much rather have greater numbers of a fish (steelhead) that spends up to 8 months in the river and actually *feeds *as opposed to one (salmon) that doesn't feed and spends a month in the river before it dies.


Just a point of clarification. Steelhead do not feed in the rivers. They are more agressive and bite more readily than salmon, but they do not feed! I cut open the stomachs of every steel I keep and 90-95% of them are empty. The exceptions may have a single egg but are never full. This is true whether in Michigan or on the west coast where our Michigan fish orriginated from (I have caught 75-100 pacific coast steelhead in addition to 100s of Michigan fish). Contrast that with perch, pike, walleye, or some other fresh water game fish when caught in the winter and one rutinely finds food in their stomachs.

Steel that enter the river in the fall actually loose tramendous amount of weight over the winter. Yes some is spawned gametes they leave behind, but alot is also associated to fat/mussle loss. The only reason fall steelhead probably survive their time in the river is because winter temperatures are so cold it lowers metabolism enough that they can survive on the their fat/mussle reserves.


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## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

Artist formely known as.. said:


> You might want to thank Bubba, Hank and Billy Bob for funding the stocking programs in our rivers and streams.


As long as they are spending the extra money for the "All Species License", which is not required to fish for bass, and doubles the price of the annual resident license. I would guess that the extra $14 that a resident spends to fish for trout/salmon probably helps to fund the stocking program?


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## Artist formely known as.. (Oct 6, 2009)

born2fish said:


> Just a point of clarification. Steelhead do not feed in the rivers. They are more agressive and bite more readily than salmon, but they do not feed! I cut open the stomachs of every steel I keep and 90-95% of them are empty. The exceptions may have a single egg but are never full. This is true whether in Michigan or on the west coast where our Michigan fish orriginated from (I have caught 75-100 pacific coast steelhead in addition to 100s of Michigan fish). Contrast that with perch, pike, walleye, or some other fresh water game fish when caught in the winter and one rutinely finds food in their stomachs.
> 
> Steel that enter the river in the fall actually loose tramendous amount of weight over the winter. Yes some is spawned gametes they leave behind, but alot is also associated to fat/mussle loss. The only reason fall steelhead probably survive their time in the river is because winter temperatures are so cold it lowers metabolism enough that they can survive on the their fat/mussle reserves.


So when a steelhead hits a spinner, hottie, or spawn sack they aren't actually feeding? What would that be called then - fake feeding? I will agree that fish definitley eat more in the lake because their metabolisms stay consistent due to the fact that can almost always stay in their preffered temperature range; but to say a fall-run Steelhead that comes into a river doesn't really feed for the entire winter is comical. That tremendous weight loss your talking is from a thing called current - I've caught plenty of healthy fat fish colorful fish in Feb. so I would have to say your a little off on your theory - you are right that their metabolism slows but they eat plenty all winter long.

I'll make sure to take some good pictures of Steelhead's stomachs this winter that are caught via fake feeding for you; also if Steelhead don't feed in the winter how would you explain their reaction to chum? What kind of response would that be classified under?


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## Fishbone (Oct 10, 2008)

Artist formely known as.. said:


> So when a steelhead hits a spinner, hottie, or spawn sack they aren't actually feeding? What would that be called then - fake feeding?


:lol:


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## ausable_steelhead (Sep 30, 2002)

Steelhead certainly feed when in the stream, no doubts there. They are very unlike salmon, when it comes to that. I caught this hen fake feeding yesterday; she was just playing around though, and only took the bag down the throat, not in the gut:










I've had fall/winter steelhead try to swallow spoons and cast plugs as well, I might have an old pic somewhere of one with a cleo down it's throat. They do lose some weight over wintering in the tribs, but that's because they go from eating fatty baitfish to bugs, pieces of bark, a few eggs ect.....


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## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

born2fish said:


> Just a point of clarification. Steelhead do not feed in the rivers. They are more agressive and bite more readily than salmon, but they do not feed! I cut open the stomachs of every steel I keep and 90-95% of them are empty. The exceptions may have a single egg but are never full. This is true whether in Michigan or on the west coast where our Michigan fish orriginated from (I have caught 75-100 pacific coast steelhead in addition to 100s of Michigan fish). Contrast that with perch, pike, walleye, or some other fresh water game fish when caught in the winter and one rutinely finds food in their stomachs.
> 
> Steel that enter the river in the fall actually loose tramendous amount of weight over the winter. Yes some is spawned gametes they leave behind, but alot is also associated to fat/mussle loss. The only reason fall steelhead probably survive their time in the river is because winter temperatures are so cold it lowers metabolism enough that they can survive on the their fat/mussle reserves.


I more rarely find food in the belly of a walleye. Does that mean that walleye don't feed as well? I have found nymphs and hellgramites in stomachs of steehead. I think it depends where you catch them? At 6th Street, they are just passing through a lot of times. Once they settle into a hole or run of a smaller trib, they seem to take on a more "trout-like" feeding pattern, and that would explain why a small caddis nymph, or even a brassie, would work in the middle of winter. I also have to wonder why I would catch a steelhead in 3' of water behind a pod of salmon in October on the Muskegon?


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## Mitch (Jan 10, 2003)

born2fish said:


> Steelhead do not feed in the rivers.


:lol::lol::lol:

Is this based on science or your own personal experience? If it's science, I'd like to see a reference. Otherwise I'd have to strongly disagree.

Mitch


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## born2fish (Aug 1, 2005)

Artist formely known as.. said:


> So when a steelhead hits a spinner, hottie, or spawn sack they aren't actually feeding? What would that be called then - fake feeding? I will agree that fish definitley eat more in the lake because their metabolisms stay consistent due to the fact that can almost always stay in their preffered temperature range; but to say a fall-run Steelhead that comes into a river doesn't really feed for the entire winter is comical. That tremendous weight loss your talking is from a thing called current - I've caught plenty of healthy fat fish colorful fish in Feb. so I would have to say your a little off on your theory - you are right that their metabolism slows but they eat plenty all winter long.
> 
> I'll make sure to take some good pictures of Steelhead's stomachs this winter that are caught via fake feeding for you; also if Steelhead don't feed in the winter how would you explain their reaction to chum? What kind of response would that be classified under?


Good luck with that. Keep a fishing journal of the of steelhead you catch with full vs. empty stomachs between now and May. Remember we are looking for a ratio greater than 1 in 10. Be truthful. Also take picutes. Make sure to pay close attantion to anything other than a single egg. The rivers are full of 50-100 mm bass, perch, and suckers that hatched last spring. Also crayfish (hint: its the one with the claws). From my understanding, digestive enzyme production in the stomach basically stuts down in migrating adult steelhead. So pay carefull attention to document anything in the stomach that is partially digested. You know where half of what was eaten is white and putrid indicating that it is being broken down. I'd be really interested in that. Finally don't come back with they "bit my lurrrr" because their stomach was empty. Diatary analysis in the Great Lakes of salmon, lake trout, and steelhead often show multiple prey items in the stomach at once. If they are eating multiple rainbow smelt or alewife at a time in the GL, then they are perfectly capable of eating 10+ eggs or eggs and fish or fish and crayfish at a time in the rivers. I look forward to your future posts w/ pictures.


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

> In my opinion the Grand has to many Steelhead; too many fish equals more competition for food and habitat which usually leads to an overall decrease in size so what about raising the creel limit to 5 steelhead on the Grand under a certain size?


Steelhead cannot be overpopulated in rivers. They are there for a few months and to spawn. Food is not a problem when they hit rivers. Fish eggs are abundant in fall, as well as insects and minnows throughout the year. Winter time metabolism slows down and very little food is required to keep them functioning, yet they do still feed. The food and habitat competition is in the big lakes with the salmon.
Why would you raise the limit to 5 steelhead a day? The Grand system( and a few others) does have a significant natural run of steelhead, so why would you want even more of those fish being roped? The more wild fish the healthier the fishery and strain of steelhead. If it was nothing but hatchery fish which do not have the same capability to reproduce naturally, a 5 fish limit would be ok I suppose. Only about 40% of spawning steelhead will make it back for return runs, 0% of roped steelhead will make it back to a river a second time. A 5 fish five limit is foolish, unneeded and a great waste of resource. Who needs to keep 5 steelhead in a day? If people want 5 fish limits, maybe someone should start lobbying to our DNR to keep the fish we raise in Michigan hatcheries in Michigan waters instead of shipping them all to PA and OH. This would probably not happen anyway since the DNR is seeing the quick buck by selling them off, instead of seeing some MI rivers having great put and take potential, as well as positive economic potential like they see in PA and OH(which are considered world class steelhead fisheries, even over some native fisheries of the West Coast).


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## Trout King (May 1, 2002)

As far as steelhead feeding in streams...you may find this study interesting...I think it is pretty conclusive about the steelhead feeding in streams. 

http://www.csus.edu/indiv/m/merzj/Research projects/Published Literature/Steelheaddietpaper.pdf


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## born2fish (Aug 1, 2005)

Trout King said:


> As far as steelhead feeding in streams...you may find this study interesting...I think it is pretty conclusive about the steelhead feeding in streams.
> 
> http://www.csus.edu/indiv/m/merzj/Research projects/Published Literature/Steelheaddietpaper.pdf


 
For now I will stand corrected. 

I will try and contact the author of the referenced study with a clarification question since in this study anything greater than 250 mm (9.8 inches) was clasified as an adult and the largest adult steelhead sampled was 380 mm (14.9 inches). Unless I'm missing something.

I know in western streams it is common for some level of the year class not to smolt and remain permanently in the river. These precosious males never enter the ocean but develop full adult features at about 10 inches.

If I get a response, I will post.


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## Flyfisher (Oct 1, 2002)

born2fish said:


> For now I will stand corrected.
> 
> I will try and contact the author of the referenced study with a clarification question since in this study anything greater than 250 mm (9.8 inches) was clasified as an adult and the largest adult steelhead sampled was 380 mm (14.9 inches). Unless I'm missing something.
> 
> ...


I almost quoted the same study but when I realized that they were referring to "half-pounders", commonly referred to as "skippers" here in the Great Lakes, I refrained. Its well documented that this year class will actively feed and there are several studies on the Rogue and Klamath Rivers as support. 

Noted fisheries biologist, professor, and author, Robert J. Behnke, indicated that adult steelhead will "feed", albeit not on a consistent basis upon entering rivers.

In the end, its sort of a "what came first, the chicken or the egg" debate, as there is support on both sides. I think we can all agree that the biting/feeding stimulus is active in steelhead up until they start to spawn, something that is not nearly as present in king salmon. There is no doubt that salmon will bite, to some degree, very early in their death march up the rivers, but there is little explanation for that action as they are not able to "feed" due to biological changes.


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## Oldgrandman (Nov 16, 2004)

born2fish said:


> For now I will stand corrected.


Honestly, steelhead do feed in the rivers no question about it. 
Spawn (not just a single egg either), bugs, and even minnows. I have caught more than just a few with all the mentioned "food for fish" in their stomachs and even coughing up a minnow or two at the same time. 
Going out on a limb here, I think that is how they survive


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## KWB (Mar 1, 2009)

What about as drop-backs, they certainly feed vigorously then...

As adults steelhead obviously don't feed in the river like they do in the lake in most circumstances, but to say they don't feed is insanity...


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## no lead (Jul 28, 2005)

i know they don't feed as much in the river as the lake also, but they have to eat at times. i have caught steel on many live baits, crawlers and minnows mostly. frozen shrimp gets them sometimes.

we fished with mice patterns in alaska and did all right. not just steel either, sockeyes would hit the mice and anything else you swung or skated.


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## REG (Oct 25, 2002)

They are opportunistic feeders and no, they do not have to eat to survive until spring spawning time.


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

no lead said:


> i know they don't feed as much in the river as the lake also, but they have to eat at times. i have caught steel on many live baits, crawlers and minnows mostly. frozen shrimp gets them sometimes.
> 
> we fished with mice patterns in alaska and did all right. not just steel either, sockeyes would hit the mice and anything else you swung or skated.


 
Sockeye Salmon have no chase instinc they are lined with the famous Jim teeny methods....

For the most part in alaska steelhead and sockeye runs rarely over lap also.


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## no lead (Jul 28, 2005)

Steelheadfred said:


> Sockeye Salmon have no chase instinc they are lined with the famous Jim teeny methods....
> 
> For the most part in alaska steelhead and sockeye runs rarely over lap also.


the socks we got were chrome silver and would chase a fly right out of the water. the steelhead were not stream rainbows. they were right from the salt. we went upriver to a wier and you could see them coming through the shallows. kings, socks, and steel.


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## Steelheadfred (May 4, 2004)

no lead said:


> the socks we got were chrome silver and would chase a fly right out of the water. the steelhead were not stream rainbows. they were right from the salt. we went upriver to a wier and you could see them coming through the shallows. kings, socks, and steel.


 
You sure they were not Silvers/Coho's? Again Sockeye have no chase instinct they eat plankton in the ocean, if you look at a sockeyes mouth you will see it is set up like a filter.

What system were you on that the Steelhead in Alaska were running up river from the salt in July?


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