# are muzzle loaders considerd a firearm ?



## matthew_h (Dec 22, 2007)

by that i mean can i order one off line like people in other states seem to be able to do ? i see some that i really like online , i would mostly like to order a cap lock pistol , and/or a hawken style rifle.on target gun store in k zoo has some good m/l stuff , but would i have to mess with a pistol permit ? when i bought my buckhorn 209 at c.c.c bait and tackle i did not have to fill out any thing .


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## wildcoy73 (Mar 2, 2004)

this has been brought up in the law section a few times and the answer is mix for buying a straight out muzzle loader that can not be converted the answer is no but if your a felon better not get caught with this to the state it is a firearm when considered in that aspect. might want to check on fedral laws aout shipping on a smoke pole that should answer your question. but if i recall right bass pro and cabelas can not send out mail order muzzel loader to michigan yes just checked bass pro shop black powder pistols are restricted in michigan


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## wildcoy73 (Mar 2, 2004)

this has been brought up in the law section a few times and the answer is mix for buying a straight out muzzle loader that can not be converted the answer is no but if your a felon better not get caught with this to the state it is a firearm when considered in that aspect. might want to check on fedral laws aout shipping on a smoke pole that should answer your question. but if i recall right bass pro and cabelas can not send out mail order muzzel loader to michigan yes just checked bass pro shop black powder pistols are restricted in michigan


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## matthew_h (Dec 22, 2007)

lol I'm not a felon , just was looking to buy a ml off line .my ml can not take any other barrel , the action and barrel are one piece .


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## wildcoy73 (Mar 2, 2004)

lol good to know i plan on buying a new one myself and have been looking at the electra. now i need to find out what the state consider to be unloaded since i have no cap or primer can i just take the battery out or will i need to fire the round out every time i take it to the feild


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## matthew_h (Dec 22, 2007)

thats a good question . my m/l is a cva buckhorn , and if the electra is as good quality(i think it should be way better costs 3x as much lol) , you should have no trouble putting meat in the freezer . mine is 1 inch groups at 60 yards the first time i had it out .


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## multibeard (Mar 3, 2002)

wildcoy73 said:


> lol good to know i plan on buying a new one myself and have been looking at the electra. now i need to find out what the state consider to be unloaded since i have no cap or primer can i just take the battery out or will i need to fire the round out every time i take it to the feild


That is a good question as I have a friend that bought one. I sent in a question to the DNR website as to when an electronically fired muzzelloader is considered legally transportable. I have never gotten an answer from the DNR website. I sent the Question prior to firearms deer season.

The guy that has one was told all you had to do was put the safety on by the guy that sold ity to him. I was finally able to get an answer from a guy in the law enforcement office in Lansing on the phone but he would not send me anything in writing as I would be getting some thing from the website, YA RIGHT.

His answer was you had to pull the battery. Why there has not been a press press release on this ruling is a good question. I also got the same answer from an active duty CO that comes on this site.


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## crackshot (Nov 19, 2007)

If you buy a pistol and plan on shooting it you have to have it inspected. If you hang it on the wall you don't....Dave


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## malainse (Sep 2, 2002)

crackshot said:


> If you buy a pistol and plan on shooting it you have to have it inspected. If you hang it on the wall you don't....Dave


Close.... If you plan on "hunting with it", must be inspected. 
Most will not mailorder Black powder pistol to Michigan. 

My neighbor purchased what you are looking at and one dealer said needed permit and the other said not needed. 

Just have a dealer order it for you, get it inspected and then all set...


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## One Eye (Sep 10, 2000)

Blackpowder pistols will not be shipped to a resident of Michigan. They have to go to an FFL. Convertible guns (i.e., Encores, etc.) also have to go to FFLs. Muzzloader only can be shipped to residents, but many companies will not take the chance and will require an FFL.

Dan


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## madmike22 (Aug 29, 2007)

Muzzleloaders are considered firearms by the federal gov't and the state of michigan. If a muzzleloader is shipped from outside of the state of michigan it is suppose to be shipped to a ffl.


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## Nick Adams (Mar 10, 2005)

madmike22 said:


> Muzzleloaders are considered firearms by the federal gov't and the state of michigan. If a muzzleloader is shipped from outside of the state of michigan it is suppose to be shipped to a ffl.


I am pretty sure this is not the case with long (rifle/shotgun) muzzleloaders. I have had several shipped to me from out of state, no FFL involved. I have yet to run across a seller who would not ship one directly to a private party in Michigan.

-na


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## glockman55 (Mar 9, 2006)

matthew_h said:


> thats a good question . my m/l is a cva buckhorn , and if the electra is as good quality(i think it should be way better costs 3x as much lol) , you should have no trouble putting meat in the freezer . mine is 1 inch groups at 60 yards the first time i had it out .


You might want to do some checking on the Electra being legal for ML season. I've heard that it is not. Percussion cap of flint lock only..


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## slammer (Feb 21, 2006)

The Electra is legal.


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## glockman55 (Mar 9, 2006)

slammer said:


> The Electra is legal.


 And you base this on? I read in Florida that the Electra ARC does not meet the specific description of a Muzzle loader. I would make sure that I could use it in the State for ML season before I bought one. And if it is in question for being a legal ML in the future.


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## matthew_h (Dec 22, 2007)

a local store , c.c.c bait and tackle sells cva and traditions muzzle loaders and they have a electra in stock(or did the last time i was there) . dont know why they would sell it if you could not hunt with it .


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## madmike22 (Aug 29, 2007)

Nick Adams said:


> I am pretty sure this is not the case with long (rifle/shotgun) muzzleloaders. I have had several shipped to me from out of state, no FFL involved. I have yet to run across a seller who would not ship one directly to a private party in Michigan.
> 
> -na


It is against the law to have one from outside the state of michigan shipped directly to you. They are considered a firearm by the state of michigan and the federal government. You do not have to do a ffl within the state and most stores will sell without filling out the paperwork. Some will still do it just to cover there *****. But it is against the law to have one shipped directly to you from anyone outside of the state of michigan.


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## madmike22 (Aug 29, 2007)

It is legal as of right now in michigan but look for it to be banned very soon. I was reading an article in one of my uncles magazines today that 13 states have already banned it from muzzleloader season and it said that many will follow suit.


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## TJO (Dec 30, 2004)

MadMike, you are wrong ML's can and do get shipped to home addresses here in Mich. It is not against the law and you do not need an FFL. The ones you cannot ship are like the Encore that you can change barrels on.


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## madmike22 (Aug 29, 2007)

Tell that to the michigan state police that showed up at my house because i bought a muzzlelaoder from a guy in illinois and we didnt ship it thru the proper channels. I was only out the money i paid for the muzzleloader. he got in big trouble for not shipping it to an ffl.


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