# This guy was having a great hunt today at Moore lake .



## The Doob (Mar 4, 2007)

griffondog said:


> Early Goose opener and the split are a great time to people watch in a Three Stooges kinda way.* To see that we are doomed as a species you need to be at the boat launch on a hot August night.:help:*
> 
> Griff


Yeah that :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Love watching them try to launch a cigarette boat with a Trans-am (90's reference)


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

It is not up to us to make the call whether or not to let a lawbreaker is poaching or just being stupid. 

That's the DNR's call...and that's what our obligation is, to notify the DNR when you see the law being broken, not AFTER you've given the guy a chance to leave...what's the point in bringing the DNR out there at all if the lawbreaker is no longer there unless you have positive id on the lawbreaker?
That same CO could maybe use the time he/she is wasting on you to do something constructive, like stop other lawbreakers in the act. 

And it is our obligation to know the laws. Period. It doesn't matter whether the laws are wrong, unfair, or hard to understand. It's the law.


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## Zofchak (Jan 10, 2003)

Linda G. said:


> It is not up to us to make the call whether or not to let a lawbreaker is poaching or just being stupid.
> 
> That's the DNR's call...and that's what our obligation is, to notify the DNR when you see the law being broken, not AFTER you've given the guy a chance to leave...what's the point in bringing the DNR out there at all if the lawbreaker is no longer there unless you have positive id on the lawbreaker?
> That same CO could maybe use the time he/she is wasting on you to do something constructive, like stop other lawbreakers in the act.
> ...


 Sorry Linda, but I disagree with part of your premise. It may not be up to the individual to legally classify the person breaking the law as a poacher or a "just being stupid", but it is totally up to them whether or not they report it. 

As an example I recall a fishing trip that I took to Oscoda probably a dozen years ago. The fishing was really slow and we only managed a couple Walleye and a few Lakers that had to go back (They were out of season). When I was loading up the boat I was approached by a guy that was really excited about showing off the first Salmon he had ever caught.  It was his first time fishing by himself and he had spent the entire weekend up there trolling and that was the only fish he got to the boat. The problem was his "Salmon" was about a 15lb Lake Trout! :xzicon_sm The fish was stone cold dead in his cooler so releasing it was not an option. 

I guess I could have called the DNR and reported a "Poacher", but to me that does not seem like the right thing to do in that situation. I informed the guy of what he actually had caught, told him that it was a very nice fish, but that the season was closed and advised him to leave before it got him into trouble. I guess I could have called the DNR, got him busted and pretty much destroyed his excitement for his newly found hobby, but that doesn't seem appropriate over a beginners mistake and a single fish.

A similar situation a few years later I ran into a guy catching and keeping out of season Smallies on the Huron River. As I got closer (I was in my kayak) he hid the fish in the grass a ways back from the river. I called the RAP line! 

Similar scenario, (Two people keeping out of season fish) but IMO a totally different situation. One disregarding our resources and with intent to break the law and the other without a sufficient understanding of it. Obviously we can't allow ignorance of the law to be an excuse for breaking it (because if we did everyone would plead ignorance. :lol, but I think it's a big mistake not to see the difference between someone breaking the law with intent and someone who is doing so without malice.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Zofchak said:


> Sorry Linda, but I disagree with part of your premise. It may not be up to the individual to legally classify the person breaking the law as a poacher or a "just being stupid", but it is totally up to them whether or not they report it.
> 
> As an example I recall a fishing trip that I took to Oscoda probably a dozen years ago. The fishing was really slow and we only managed a couple Walleye and a few Lakers that had to go back (They were out of season). When I was loading up the boat I was approached by a guy that was really excited about showing off the first Salmon he had ever caught.  It was his first time fishing by himself and he had spent the entire weekend up there trolling and that was the only fish he got to the boat. The problem was his "Salmon" was about a 15lb Lake Trout! :xzicon_sm The fish was stone cold dead in his cooler so releasing it was not an option.
> 
> ...


Athough I agree "in theory" with what Linda said, there are exceptions to every rule. Your first example is one of them, and I would have done the same. I recall a couple of times in my duck hunting career that I have had to "enlighten" hunters about what kind of duck they actually had in their hand. :lol: One particular time I had to inform a fairly young, and very proud, hunter that the season was in fact closed on that particular bird. Fortunately he only had one, and he was visibly shaken and deflated. I told him it has happened to most of us at one time or another, and just try to learn from this experience, AND learn more about ID'ing ducks on the wing. In fact, I gave him my copy of LeMaster's ID book that I had with me that day. Should he have made sure of the ID before shooting? Sure. but it was obvious to me it was an honest mistake, and I saw no positive point in turning him in. Hopefully he never made the same mistake again.


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## Steverinobambino (Feb 8, 2005)

Linda G. said:


> It is not up to us to make the call whether or not to let a lawbreaker is poaching or just being stupid.
> 
> That's the DNR's call...and that's what our obligation is, to notify the DNR when you see the law being broken, not AFTER you've given the guy a chance to leave...what's the point in bringing the DNR out there at all if the lawbreaker is no longer there unless you have positive id on the lawbreaker?
> That same CO could maybe use the time he/she is wasting on you to do something constructive, like stop other lawbreakers in the act.
> ...


I don't agree with this. Couple of things:

1. In the OP's situation, he didn't see them actively hunting. i.e. shooting at birds out of season or even shooting at all.

2. Who knows, they may not have had guns, they could have had cameras.

3. Could of been a SW Mich hunter protesting the season dates by just throwing out some decoys and taking it all in from the marsh seat.... to tell the board how many mallards he/she saw the other day.

Hence, my comment about approaching them. If I didn't witness a law being broken, I reserve the judgement not to call the DNR. It could be just as well that I would be wasting a CO's time by calling them without confirmation that they were actually breaking any laws....only to find out they were bird watching.


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## 1ludman (Jun 26, 2012)

After reading all of the post supporting " ignorance " to be used as an excuse it's no wonder why we have the most screwed up state to hunt in.The same people who want to give a break or look the other way are probaly the first to bitch about skybusters,people hunting thier spot on state land and on and on.


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## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

It is not up to you to decide whether or not someone is breaking the law or not, or just being stupid...that's up to the DNR...and I think you'd find that very often, they will not ticket the guy who honestly doesn't know the difference between a lake trout and a salmon or what kind of duck he's got...but I bet the guy gets a real serious education right then. 

As for the duck/decoy situation, again, it's not your call as to whether that person was "hunting" or not...I don't believe that the law says you have to have a firearm in your hand to be considered as "hunting"...but then again, that's not for us to decide, that's for the DNR. 

The DNR is not the Gestapo many people believe they are. Well, perhaps they are with that particular person, I'm sure it depends on who you are and how they have come to know you...LOL

But I've ridden with a number of COs many times over the years, and can tell you that, more often than not, they will simply warn a lawbreaker, particularly someone who is ignorant, rather than arrest or ticket them. 

But if they run into you again, you better have it figured out.


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## Steverinobambino (Feb 8, 2005)

Linda G. said:


> It is not up to you to decide whether or not someone is breaking the law or not, or just being stupid...that's up to the DNR...and I think you'd find that very often, they will not ticket the guy who honestly doesn't know the difference between a lake trout and a salmon or what kind of duck he's got...but I bet the guy gets a real serious education right then.
> 
> As for the duck/decoy situation, again, it's not your call as to whether that person was "hunting" or not...I don't believe that the law says you have to have a firearm in your hand to be considered as "hunting"...but then again, that's not for us to decide, that's for the DNR.
> 
> ...


 
Of course, that is up to a judge.

But... Not only does the law grant you the right to use your own "judgement", a severe lack of judgement can even be a a chargeable offense when involving a LEO when unnecessary. i.e. hunter harassment, unnecessary 911 calls, etc.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

We are all adults, use your own judgement. Some times teaching is better than punishing and that decision doesn't have to be the DNR's or judges. 


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## 1ludman (Jun 26, 2012)

TSS Caddis said:


> We are all adults, use your own judgement. Some times teaching is better than punishing and that decision doesn't have to be the DNR's or judges.
> Maybe we should all teach the poor guy hunting with a spotlight because he has to feed his family,or the guy with a over limit of fish or game because he has to feed his family. How about we all just pick and choose when to have a memory lapse or be ignorant of the law so someone can teach us the right way.We live in a society of peolpe who don't feel they have any responsibility for thier actions so lets just feed the problem. I think we should start a Michigan enablers website to help the poor misguided people.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

You have every right to have zero tolerance and call. The other guys have every right to have a talk with someone and decide to leave it at that or not.

With JD's example no sense in calling that guy in. Sounds the end goal was achieved, he won't do it again, except it was reached without a ticket. 

If you get to deer camp and your buddy shoots a 2.5" spike do you report him? 

Each of us is perfectly capable of using their own judgment. If you choose to have zero tolerance an call on everything you have every right in the world.


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## PuddleJumper (Sep 23, 2009)

This is an apples and oranges arguement.

Some of you are arguing 'right and wrong' and some are arguing 'intentionally or mistakenly'.

Some of you are only taking the first arguement into account and you are right. But those who take both arguments into account, in my opinion, are more right. We all know breaking the law is wrong- no one is denying that. 

For those of you who don't take the other arguement into account at all, I can only imagine how many 911 calls you make when you see someone going over 70 on the expressway each day. After all, it's breaking the law and it's a human life not a duck's life at risk.

Humans are given the ability to reason. Some of you should use that ability a little more often, I guess.


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

If I could be the first employee to help with the Michigan enabler website sign me up . I need a better job, and it would bring mich unemployment level down.


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## oldsalt mi (Oct 5, 2010)

When I was 15yr old I made a mistake in reading the guide. I had a 18yr old buddy that I was hunting with. The judge didn't have a problem giving us a 250.00 ticket.


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## Divers Down (Mar 31, 2008)

Linda G. said:


> It is not up to you to decide whether or not someone is breaking the law or not, or just being stupid...that's up to the DNR...and I think you'd find that very often, they will not ticket the guy who honestly doesn't know the difference between a lake trout and a salmon or what kind of duck he's got...but I bet the guy gets a real serious education right then.
> 
> As for the duck/decoy situation, again, it's not your call as to whether that person was "hunting" or not...I don't believe that the law says you have to have a firearm in your hand to be considered as "hunting"...but then again, that's not for us to decide, that's for the DNR.
> 
> ...


Excellent points
Some people need to be hit over the head with a brick rather a stick for something to sink in. Let the CO's be that brick. As above, they'll most likely get a warning but just maybe they find out this guys an extreme violator would've gotten away if joe hunter gave him a warning. Ducks are'nt armed, we've gotta protect em.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

TSS Caddis said:


> You have every right to have zero tolerance and call. The other guys have every right to have a talk with someone and decide to leave it at that or not.
> 
> With JD's example no sense in calling that guy in. Sounds the end goal was achieved, he won't do it again, except it was reached without a ticket.
> 
> ...


Exactly Gene! And I'd do the same thing again 100% of the time  My brother is a long-time LEO, and we've had this discussion many a time. Laws are not black and white, and there is a lot left to "intent". He has said if citizen's called them every time they had an issue without using COMMON SENSE (like someone's cat up a tree scenario), they would never get any work done, and it would take a week to respond to every call. There will never be enough manpower for that, and the DNR CO's are certainly in that situation. Now I'm done arguing on this stupid thread :banghead3


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

PuddleJumper said:


> For those of you who don't take the other argument into account at all, I can only imagine how many 911 calls you make when you see someone going over 70 on the expressway each day. After all, it's breaking the law and it's a human life not a duck's life at risk.
> 
> Humans are given the ability to reason. Some of you should use that ability a little more often, I guess.


right. thats what it has come to. to be honest, some of you guys on here are taking the strictest possible instance and "this is the way its gotta be"...man, i've seen CO's use their judgement to the situation....apparently they were doing it wrong. 

example: about 16yrs ago i was hunting the bay, i had one of those ammo tins (military) and at the pine river launch we got checked after the hunt. 2 CO's asked if they could check my gun and my ammo. They went thru it..dug to the bottom of the can. In the bottom of the can was 1 rusted 2 3/4" #6 lead. it was so rusted it wouldn't fit in my gun. I had left it in there from pheasant trip to south dakota the previous fall. It was a legitimate mistake and i was ready to get hit for it. 1 CO was gonna write the ticket and the other said if it won't fit in the gun i'll not write ticket, it didn't fit it was so rusted. Bottom line is, i learned a lesson whether the ticket was written or not....I now clearly go thru my ammo (bag) everytime before i hunt since that incident.

there is a thing called judgement and we all make them every day. being stern and 0 tolerance isn't always the answer.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> ...the other said if it won't fit in the gun i'll not write ticket, it didn't fit it was so rusted...


Guess we need to start calling you "OJ the Kid" (if it doesn't fit...you must acquit) :lol:


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> right. thats what it has come to. to be honest, some of you guys on here are taking the strictest possible instance and "this is the way its gotta be"...man, i've seen CO's use their judgement to the situation....apparently they were doing it wrong.
> 
> example: about 16yrs ago i was hunting the bay, i had one of those ammo tins (military) and at the pine river launch we got checked after the hunt. 2 CO's asked if they could check my gun and my ammo. They went thru it..dug to the bottom of the can. In the bottom of the can was 1 rusted 2 3/4" #6 lead. it was so rusted it wouldn't fit in my gun. I had left it in there from pheasant trip to south dakota the previous fall. It was a legitimate mistake and i was ready to get hit for it. 1 CO was gonna write the ticket and the other said if it won't fit in the gun i'll not write ticket, it didn't fit it was so rusted. Bottom line is, i learned a lesson whether the ticket was written or not....I now clearly go thru my ammo (bag) everytime before i hunt since that incident.
> 
> there is a thing called judgement and we all make them every day. being stern and 0 tolerance isn't always the answer.


Violator. You should be ashamed of yourself.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

KLR said:


> Violator. You should be ashamed of yourself.


haha, and the CO asked me if i take those lead shells out to slap cripples...i'm sure if it would fit in my gun that would be a great idea...at the time there was like 3 boxes of steel in my ammo can but yet i need to take 1 rusted lowbrass out with me to save some $$$ u know.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> haha, and the CO asked me if i take those lead shells out to slap cripples...i'm sure if it would fit in my gun that would be a great idea...at the time there was like 3 boxes of steel in my ammo can but yet i need to take 1 rusted lowbrass out with me to save some $$$ u know.


I got my hands on some Fiocchi steel 7's...those might be the best crip-swatters I've ever used.


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## TNL (Jan 6, 2005)

Sorry, gotta go with zero tolerance on this one. Look, you have to know what day it is otherwise how are you going to know the shooting times? They change EVERY DAY! Every waterfowler knows this. Unless that doesn't matter either. I don't buy it - it's either poaching or stupidity.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

TNL said:


> Sorry, gotta go with zero tolerance on this one. Look, you have to know what day it is otherwise how are you going to know the shooting times? They change EVERY DAY! Every waterfowler knows this. Unless that doesn't matter either. I don't buy it - it's either poaching or stupidity.


i would agree its one or the other. i'd put money on stupidity tho. haha. kinda hard to be a sneaky duck hunter and get away with it.


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## TNL (Jan 6, 2005)

Or a combo of two - reeeaally stupid poachers! :lol:

I'd give em a ticket on general principle.


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## Duck-Hunter (Mar 31, 2005)

T.J. said:


> Thats a good point but there is consistency in firearm deer regs. Deer season has been the same for as long as I remember.
> 
> posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


If the migration and bird # where in the money or with little decline year to year we would have a traditional opener like the firearm donkey season. We hunt something that is here one day gone the next. If some jackass can't read some free literature that would save him a few hundred dollars a year in fines and the risk of losing his rights to hunt...that individual might wanna brush up on the regs...just sayin.




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## rentalrider (Aug 8, 2011)

I just have to ask. Did anyone witness a law broken? Not saying there wasn't someone illegally hunting over those dekes, just asking the question I'm hoping would be first asked by the CO.


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## dpossum (Jul 19, 2006)

A few years ago I was hiking around Pointe Mouillee and I heard shots in the marsh, several weeks before the Duck season. I couldn't see anything because of the height of the marsh. I stood there for a while and up comes a truck with some Fish and Wildlife folks. I told them what I heard and asked if they were aware of any hunting season being open. I thought it could have been early goose, rail hunting or rabbit hunting (the only season dates I pay attention to are duck seasons). They weren't exactly sure either so we waited in their truck on the dike until after sunset. Half an hour after dusk, up pulls some local teenagers with a boat full of duck decoys, guns and gear. The Fish and Wildlife guy started his truck and raced down the dike to have a chat. Seems these local gents got bored and decided to do a little duck hunting out of season. Because no one in the truck was from from enforcement they had to let them go. Scared the heck out of them but I believe some sort or ticket would have been nice. Just my opinion I guess.


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## Divers Down (Mar 31, 2008)

dpossum said:


> A few years ago I was hiking around Pointe Mouillee and I heard shots in the marsh, several weeks before the Duck season. I couldn't see anything because of the height of the marsh. I stood there for a while and up comes a truck with some Fish and Wildlife folks. I told them what I heard and asked if they were aware of any hunting season being open. I thought it could have been early goose, rail hunting or rabbit hunting (the only season dates I pay attention to are duck seasons). They weren't exactly sure either so we waited in their truck on the dike until after sunset. Half an hour after dusk, up pulls some local teenagers with a boat full of duck decoys, guns and gear. The Fish and Wildlife guy started his truck and raced down the dike to have a chat. Seems these local gents got bored and decided to do a little duck hunting out of season. Because no one in the truck was from from enforcement they had to let them go. Scared the heck out of them but I believe some sort or ticket would have been nice. Just my opinion I guess.


Sounds par for Mouilee.
Last year 4 of us are sittn in Zone 11, facing the dike.
2 people appear walking down the *NO ENTRY SEPT 15th THRU WATERFOWL SEASON *dike. "crack crack zip zip!! 22 shots go zipping by us. Yelling and a warning shot did'nt halt their hunting expidetion. Immediatly calling the RAP line cuz every zone was full of duck hunters and someone was gunna get shot. CO said, on the way. The A-holes disappeared, 3 hrs later while walking out we saw them leaving by car, took their lic # and recalled RAP line. Buddy called days later to see what happened to em. Was told no citations were issued to them, maybe their excuse was they did'nt own a calander. Nice


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