# How much does it cost to hunt these days?



## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Scandiacus said:


> If someone is going into debt to pay for mere wants (as opposed to needs and reasonable investments like a house or education), then they're definitely living beyond their means.
> 
> If they're paying for wants without debt, but are doing so at the expense of saving anything for the future, well, they're still within their means but may have trouble staying there.
> 
> ...


Many would argue that theory. With the return on investments the past few years and the historically low interest rates you would be foolish to pay cash for toys.

In 2014 i bought a used truck with 6 yrs financing for 1.5% interest rate.. 3 years later I bought an expensive boat with a 2.9% financinng deal. Since 2014 I have hit double digits in returns on investment all but 1 year and even well over 20% return some years. Taking money out of investments for either purchase would be alot of lost money. 

I havent paid cash for a toy in a long time.


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## Brent J. Clark (Sep 17, 2020)

mac66 said:


> Sitting in my bow blind over the weekend got me thinking about how much it would cost to hunt (deer) these days if you were first starting out.
> 
> I started deer hunting in 1968. (I'm 65). I started with hand me down hunting clothes (red checkered wool coat, this was before hunter's orange was required) and a borrowed rifle (my uncle's Win 94 30-30). I wore galoshes (rubber boats over shoes). I think the only thing I bought was a knife (<$10), a $3-4 hat and a $5 compass.
> 
> ...



Wow,I'm turning 69 soooon. and I starting hunting at 6 a 22 coey. But I did start snearing at 4 .


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

shaffe48b said:


> Sorry but I have to disagree on your economic statments. Some people may be wealthier largely due to increases in inequality. But it's a basic fact that average wages have not increased inflation adjusted over the decades and basic expenses like housing have increased greatly. We have been hit by a great recession 12 years ago and now just a decade later a likely bigger recession. That means that two of three hardest economic times of the last 100 years have happened in the last 12.
> 
> The middle class has shrunk. Many people who used to work steady hours in working class jobs are now working random hours minimum wage in the service industry. College education is astronomically more expensive and no longer a guarantee you won't be working part time at walmart anyways. Unless you break into white collar professional services or start a successfull business, you will likely get stuck in a low paid job with no benefits or vacation. And even once you make it you can quickly fall out of it.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't totally agree with you, although you do have some valid points.

At this time, we are seeing history in the making. Skilled Trades of every sort are hiring people off the street in a Journeymen right now! That is insane. 

Literally anyone with a pulse and the ability to show up on time, maybe pass a drug test (although almost everyone I know in the trades smokes pot daily) can have a career making a GOOD living with great benefits. It isn't as hard as people make it out to be. 

We have two things working against us right now, as a society as a whole.

1) Most people want something for nothing. They want to fall right into a good thing. 

2) The myth over the last couple decades that you have to go to college to become something. Now, more than ever, that is a terrible idea for most. 

I will continue to tell anyone I hear bitching about money, life isn't fair, must be nice or any other BS excuse I hear, to call a Union hall. Pick what you think sounds interesting and go for it. Unless you are a felon (even then the roofers will take ya ) or a career alcoholic that can't ever show up, you will be good in a year.

I tell my BIL this every time I hear some schitt when I tell him to take a day off and come hunting with me.


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

The numbers don't lie. Not everyone can work in the skilled trades or driving truck. Yes some people won't work. That's always been the case.

But back to the point. You can't tell me that the reduction in the middle class hasn't contributed to the decline of hunting. You also can't tell me that urbanization especially in the largest urban areas and especially amongst high income employees hasn't contributed to the downward trend in hunting. 

You can come up with any one off example or story based on your perception you want to. It doesn't change it.


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## jiggin is livin (Jan 7, 2011)

In regards to hunting specifically, yes I agree with you.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Scandiacus said:


> If someone is going into debt to pay for mere wants (as opposed to needs and reasonable investments like a house or education), then they're definitely living beyond their means.
> 
> If they're paying for wants without debt, but are doing so at the expense of saving anything for the future, well, they're still within their means but may have trouble staying there.
> 
> ...



If everyone were to have this type of mindset, the economy would collapse


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

shaffe48b said:


> The numbers don't lie. Not everyone can work in the skilled trades or driving truck. Yes some people won't work. That's always been the case.
> 
> But back to the point. You can't tell me that the reduction in the middle class hasn't contributed to the decline of hunting. You also can't tell me that urbanization especially in the largest urban areas and especially amongst high income employees hasn't contributed to the downward trend in hunting.
> 
> You can come up with any one off example or story based on your perception you want to. It doesn't change it.


The problem with the middle class shrinking narrative is that all classes in this country have progressed considerably in the past 50 years. The story of the shrinking middle class sounds alot like whining. Just because a group of people outpaced another group it doesnt equal the others regressing. Demographics of one group growing at a larger pace than others do not tell the true story of how much better an inferior class has it today. 

You can see people below the middle class everywhere with $600-800 phones in their pockets. We have far larger assistance spending than we ever have. When we advance there is always a group that has it good enough and doesn't want to progress further. I bet you have friends and family like jiggins inlaws too....i know i do.


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## Bow hunter on a Mission (Oct 15, 2017)

CVA Scout .450 bushmaster/.350 legend buyers choice with inexpensive scope and a box of shells= Less than $450.

Michigan base license and 1 kill tag- $31

Assuming they have warm clothes and some sort of footwear from normal life or buy from goodwill or garage sales- Free to very cheap.

This gets someone in the woods with a good brand new weapon and legal licenses for less than $500. I’m sure you could cut that down with a used slug gun or rifle too.


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## Bow hunter on a Mission (Oct 15, 2017)

THP also has a video of them going into an archery shop and coming out fully set up for bow hunting for less than $500.


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## Waif (Oct 27, 2013)

Quality of life allows recreation here.

An evolution of more "sport' by lower wage earners/monied families vs meat desired for table factors in the culture/tradition shift.
As does access. Cities and subdivisions bordered by private land has reduced "back door" close to home hunting.

No , not everyone has the luxury of spending money on a hobby.
I'm not convinced money factors in hunting's decline as much as current "lifeways" though.
It was a poor-mans sport when I became involved. Because I was poor. While there were well monied folks hunting at the same time.

A week or two in the North woods was personal vacation/decompression for working stiffs .
Sure there were well monied folks involved too. But hunting need not come at an outrageous cost.
We tented. Brought food from home mostly. 
Other than gas and vacation time spending , a firearm amortized over time and a gradual acquisition of "hunting" cloths the same way did/does not make it a cost prohibitive sport. IF a dedicated sport ,not one of a half dozen vying for funds.

My trapping savings were small. But allowed expanding my trapline.
When prices crashed and I pulled my sets that year , I kept saving. 
It took years of that small savings being continued , and still was not enough (though close) when I bought a new rifle.
A cheaper shotgun scope did duty for more years till an upgrade could be afforded.
I had boots. And reasonably warm cloths , even if they were not the latest or greatest or new.

Still have every orange vest bought. (One has faded to a strange whiteish yellow more than pale orange , that's old. But they were not considered cheap , regardless of cost when every dollar spent mattered.. Not competing with other hobbies. But with a head almost above water kind of budget.
No paid taxidermist. Most deer processed myself. And price per pound always considered after a kill.

At my poorest I raised hogs and rabbits for meat. If venison outpaced my costs to acquire it I'd likely have not hunted like I did.
Today a deer cost me an outrageous amount compared to years ago. And I'm fine with that.
But it's by my own doing. Not the sports.


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

DirtySteve said:


> The problem with the middle class shrinking narrative is that all classes in this country have progressed considerably in the past 50 years.


 Ok I'll start pulling and summarizing the data.


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

DirtySteve said:


> The problem with the middle class shrinking narrative is that all classes in this country have progressed considerably in the past 50 years.


 Ok I'll start pulling and summarizing the data.


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## AmericanRepeater (Nov 7, 2019)

If I can switch to grouse, please...
Practice (clays cost and ammo), gun, vet, gas, torn clothes and wore out boots, body work on truck (long story), plus more for about 6 lbs of meat. (Fraction of that weight in 7 1/2 shot)
Thank God I don’t fish!
Just whining, of course. One spends what one can afford and it was always worth every penny. I started with a hand me down 16 ga. single shot, a friends borrowed dog, a new orange hat and a box of high brass Federals. My $10 investment returned as much fun as the thousands spent do now. 
Minimalist or catalog junkie...it’s all about doing what you love and being with like minded people.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

shaffe48b said:


> Ok I'll start pulling and summarizing the data.


Well you can if you want.....but not sure if we are going to see eye to eye in this. 

I grew up the son of a middle class working man. Dad worked at GM on the line. A job most would consider good paying job. We lived in a 1150 sq foot ranch. 1 car. Very few toys.

I look at family members today who work work far tougher jobs and would rank below middle class. They live in 2000 sq ft houses. 3 car families with dirtbikes galore and boats in the driveway. I get that they may be over extended on credit.....but back in my dads day that wasnt even an option.


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## Uber-Schneider (Apr 5, 2008)

Martin Looker said:


> When I graduated we were making a dollar an hour and if you wanted a good paying job you went to GM. You were also going to work for the army for a couple of years. I still had my rifle and a place to hunt


I've got the retirement dates starting to float into sight now, but can't remember when GM was ever hiring for a new plant that went up in this state. Matter of fact it's been mostly the other way around as the jobs went south of the border or over to SE Asia for them. But I still remember tossing a couple of sawhorses into my Chevy Astro and screwing a 5/8" piece of plywood to the top for a bedframe for my sleeping bag, before heading up north for a long weekend bowhunting back in the day. You can always make due with what you have to get out there.

Nowadays heated seats in the truck get me ready before heading out in the cold. Over the years there have always been good times and fond memories in the woods, regardless of how much gear or the cost. Still haven't been able to purchase the private land with simple cabin I've always wanted due to the Great Recession, but usually have more than enough relatives/friends offering a place to go hunting and a warm place to sleep to still make every season something to look forward to. The northwoods cathedral someone referenced always come through to make the world right.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

US society has long progressed past the hunter gatherer stage for everyone on this site. Hunting or fishing is a recreational sport that is funded by fun money or disposable income. Recessions limit that portion of income but not everyone is impacted equally by a recession. Attached is a disposable income graph from the federal reserve with gray vertical lines indicating recession years. Aside from the recession flat spots disposable US income has steadily increased over time. In other words things have been pretty equal no matter what generation you are from.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Luv2hunteup said:


> US society has long progressed past the hunter gatherer stage for everyone on this site. Hunting or fishing is a recreational sport that is funded by fun money or disposable income. Recessions limit that portion of income but not everyone is impacted equally by a recession. Attached is a disposable income graph from the federal reserve with gray vertical lines indicating recession years. Aside from the recession flat spots disposable US income has steadily increased over time. In other words things have been pretty equal no matter what generation you are from.
> 
> View attachment 586623


That is an excellent graph and is interesting for alot of points. I am guessing all those spikes are federal stimulus monies?

One thing that isnt equal across all generations is availability of credit type funding. In the 60's 70's and 80's buying a new car was out of reach for alot of people. We gripe today about vehicle prices but years ago loan terms were 24-36 months with incredibly high interest rates. Today alot of people can buy a car 72-84 months with 0-4% interest. 

Growing up for me when a family bought a second vehicle it was a big deal. People with 3-5 cars in the driveway are common place these days and nobody even thinks twice. Toys are easier than ever to afford for everyone. I know people like to shake their finger and preach live within means and stuff. But that definition of "means" has changed dramatically. It helps the economy and makes life more enjoyable for most.


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## chemjunkie (Sep 16, 2015)

shaffe48b said:


> Sorry but I have to disagree on your economic statments. Some people may be wealthier largely due to increases in inequality. But it's a basic fact that average wages have not increased inflation adjusted over the decades and basic expenses like housing have increased greatly. We have been hit by a great recession 12 years ago and now just a decade later a likely bigger recession. That means that two of three hardest economic times of the last 100 years have happened in the last 12.
> 
> The middle class has shrunk. Many people who used to work steady hours in working class jobs are now working random hours minimum wage in the service industry. College education is astronomically more expensive and no longer a guarantee you won't be working part time at walmart anyways. Unless you break into white collar professional services or start a successfull business, you will likely get stuck in a low paid job with no benefits or vacation. And even once you make it you can quickly fall out of it.
> 
> ...



In 1987 after my first year of graduate school in chemistry I had a summer internship that paid a little more than $14/hour. Twenty nine years later my son had a chemistry internship that paid $14/hr. From my limited experience wages have not truly kept up.


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## Sasquatch Lives (May 23, 2011)

Well I hunt public land and already have a gun and camo clothes. Basically costs me a tank of gas, price of a deer tag, lunch and the price of one bullet. A buddy goes to Kansas some years and that costs him several tanks of gas, out of state licenses and $6,000 for the guide.


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## TriggerDiscipline (Sep 25, 2017)

DirtySteve said:


> People are wealthier than they ever have been. Just look at the number of $70k pontoon boats, $15k jetskis, $20k side by sides etc..... there is wealth everywhere. I won't buy the story thay people cant afford a deer rifle and that is why they arent hunting.
> 
> I think our biggest issues we face is that there is too many exciting avenues out there for entertainment. Also men tend to be family men these days. When i was a kid dad went hunting. Kids went when they were old enough. My uncles went hunting despite their kids having friday night football games or any other thing going on. Kids werent in year round soccer or baseball and today dad has responsibility to take them today. All of my hunting buddies are short on time for hunting over family obligations. Many their kids are way too busy or they have more exciting options.


People are in more debt than they ever been. All those toys are financed.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

TriggerDiscipline said:


> People are in more debt than they ever been. All those toys are financed.


Which is a good thing in a lot of ways. When i was 23 yrs old i was paying 7-8% financing for a brand new car payment with a great credit score. Financing would cripple me on a new car and made it out of reach for me. Today I can finance a brand new boat or snowmobile for 3% and i can buy a truck to pull it for 0% financing. It makes toys affordable. This is why people have it better. It makes the economy better. People can enjoy nicer things alot easier these days.


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

shaffe48b said:


> Ok I'll start pulling and summarizing the data.


The BLS provides median earnings data from 1979 and 10th, 25th, 75th, and 90th percentiles of earnings from 2000. This is for full time employees only, which is a disadvantage given the rise of part time workers which are usually lower paid. However, the census data is by household, and so doesn’t account for increases in multi-earner households. Therefore, I chose this.

What increases there have been for median earnings for the last 40 years have mostly come in the last twenty. Nonetheless, median earnings have increased only from about $44,050 to $47,680 in the last 40 years. The median wage earner has shown the lowest increase in the last 20 years while the 90th percentile wage earner has by far the largest increase.

The median wage earner hasn’t seen much increase given that many are now expected to have some college or a college degree. In fact, the percentage of people over 25 with at least one year of college has almost doubled and the cost of a year of college has more than doubled. Hence, a much larger investment is needed in order to earn this median wage.

Finally, expenses in terms of housing have increased greatly. Median rents are 21% higher than 40 years ago.


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## TK81 (Mar 28, 2009)

shaffe48b said:


> Sorry but I have to disagree on your economic statments. Some people may be wealthier largely due to increases in inequality. But it's a basic fact that average wages have not increased inflation adjusted over the decades and basic expenses like housing have increased greatly. We have been hit by a great recession 12 years ago and now just a decade later a likely bigger recession. That means that two of three hardest economic times of the last 100 years have happened in the last 12.
> 
> The middle class has shrunk. Many people who used to work steady hours in working class jobs are now working random hours minimum wage in the service industry. College education is astronomically more expensive and no longer a guarantee you won't be working part time at walmart anyways. Unless you break into white collar professional services or start a successfull business, you will likely get stuck in a low paid job with no benefits or vacation. And even once you make it you can quickly fall out of it.
> 
> ...


Electronics. Kids would rather play video games and watch youtube. Adults would rather watch their big screens and play on their phones. When I was a kid, you had three channels. Now everyone has access to hundreds. Even welfare recipients have $500 phones with unlimited data contracts. 

It's not about the money. Not one bit.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

chemjunkie said:


> In 1987 after my first year of graduate school in chemistry I had a summer internship that paid a little more than $14/hour. Twenty nine years later my son had a chemistry internship that paid $14/hr. From my limited experience wages have not truly kept up.


Yuck. Interns in chemical engineering were making 21-23/hr in 2006.


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## Sasquatch Lives (May 23, 2011)

TK81 said:


> Electronics. Kids would rather play video games and watch youtube. Adults would rather watch their big screens and play on their phones. When I was a kid, you had three channels. Now everyone has access to hundreds. Even welfare recipients have $500 phones with unlimited data contracts.
> 
> It's not about the money. Not one bit.


Or even $1000 phones.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

Aside from the "inflationary" posts above, quality hunting for those of us that got spoiled in the 80's, 90's and into 00's by reasonable leases, the cost to score such land has increased five-fold or more.


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

Shoeman said:


> Aside from the "inflationary" posts above, quality hunting for those of us that got spoiled in the 80's, 90's and into 00's by reasonable leases, the cost to score such land has increased five-fold or more.


What percent of hunters do you think actually lease land to hunt on?


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

DirtySteve said:


> What percent of hunters do you think actually lease land to hunt on?


Not sure it matters. Years ago you didn't have to pay for it. Just ask. Now "free" permission is increasingly rare


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

sureshot006 said:


> Not sure it matters. Years ago you didn't have to pay for it. Just ask. Now "free" permission is increasingly rare


I have never been asked to pay and i dont know a single person that has ever leased land. 

The only scenario I know of leasing around me is the guy who owns the property behind my house who allowed a person to hunt there several years. The issue was he also allowed all the neighbors to use his land for quad riding and dog walking etc...my neighbor is an absentee land owner and a very nice guy. The deer hunter got fed up with what he felt was illegal activity. He offered the landowner $500 a year to lease hunting rights and got him to sign a lease.....then went around telling every neghbor to stay off because he had lease rights. He lost his hunting rights at the end of his 2 yr lease.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

DirtySteve said:


> I have never been asked to pay and i dont know a single person that has ever leased land.
> 
> The only scenario I know of leasing around me is the guy who owns the property behind my house who allowed a person to hunt there several years. The issue was he also allowed all the neighbors to use his land for quad riding and dog walking etc...my neighbor is an absentee land owner and a very nice guy. The deer hunter got fed up with what he felt was illegal activity. He offered the landowner $500 a year to lease hunting rights and got him to sign a lease.....then went around telling every neghbor to stay off because he had lease rights. He lost his hunting rights at the end of his 2 yr lease.


Do you go around knocking on doors and get permission regularly?


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

sureshot006 said:


> Do you go around knocking on doors and get permission regularly?


Regularly no. To be honest I typically ask friends and acquaintances after establishing somewhat of a relationship for deer hunting.. 

I can only think of a few times I have ever asked a complete stranger to deer hunt. Many times I have asked about duck hunting or trapping. Seems like it is a 50/50 chance. 

I have never known a person who has leased hunting rights ever. Only time I hear about it is on this site. I know plenty of farmers who lease land to farm and they also hunt those lands. Been invited to hunt a few parcels like that for free.

I cant imagine the percentage of people that lease to hunt in the state is very high. We have so much available land to hunt.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

DirtySteve said:


> Regularly no. To be honest I typically ask friends and acquaintances after establishing somewhat of a relationship for deer hunting..
> 
> I can only think of a few times I have ever asked a complete stranger to deer hunt. Many times I have asked about duck hunting or trapping. Seems like it is a 50/50 chance.
> 
> ...


I know a few that lease. In state and out of state. I also know a few that go door to door. Their success rate is very low going door to door, but knock enough and it happens.

Our individual pools of acquaintances are tiny compared to the hunting population.


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## Shoeman (Aug 26, 2000)

DirtySteve said:


> What percent of hunters do you think actually lease land to hunt on?


successful ones?


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## DirtySteve (Apr 9, 2006)

sureshot006 said:


> I know a few that lease. In state and out of state. I also know a few that go door to door. Their success rate is very low going door to door, but knock enough and it happens.
> 
> Our individual pools of acquaintances are tiny compared to the hunting population.


I think todays younger generation has a different mindset about deer hunting. 
Shows like THP, Dan Infalt, Randy Newberg, Steve Rinella's meat eater and a dozen others giving so much press about public land hunting. 

We see it on this site all the time. Lots of posts about slob hunters with tv shows showing canned hunts on massive ranches. Everyone claims to watch the guys who go out and do it on their own now.

I have been watching some of Dan Infalts material on this season. He claims he has never seen so many good hunters on state land who know what they are doing these days. 

When I was 18-22 yrs old I dreamed about owning my own private deer hunting oasis. My boys are 17 and 22. They don't think that way at all. They seek the adventure of the stateland do it on your own experience....something I overlooked as an upside in my youth.


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

It’s easier to gain permission to hunt for free than it is to find a great deer lease.


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## sureshot006 (Sep 8, 2010)

Luv2hunteup said:


> It’s easier to gain permission to hunt for free than it is to find a great deer lease.


Any land vs great lease, sure that's probably true.


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## sparky18181 (Apr 17, 2012)

I would hate to see the amount of money i have spent over the years But I can tell you this that over those years, the memories I have and times with my son and friends is absolutely priceless. Don’t ever take it for granted because none of us is guaranteed another deer season.


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## TriggerDiscipline (Sep 25, 2017)

You can buy a cheap New England pardner in 12 or 20 gauge at most pawn shops for less than $100. A Mossberg 500 with a rifled barrel and a cantilever scope mount for around $250. A Simmons 4x fixed power scope for $20 (surprisingly decent scope for the money). Most people already have winter clothes, which will suffice for hunting. Maybe you buy some pac boots at dunhams for $50. A license for $20, or $40 if you're feeling lucky. Then enough ammo to get competent with your weapon and to hunt with for around $30. So the absolute minimum runs from $220-370. Try getting a pair of skis for that much. Not to mention each lift ticket is $70. Hockey gear will run you much more than that. Basketball and soccer are the only activities that are cheaper. And if your kid wants to do those, they will be on some travel team if they're any good, so figure on several thousand $ in gas and hotel costs, plus team fees, plus all the summer camps. 

Hunting is comparatively cheap. It's the never-ending accoutrement that makes it seem expensive. But those are all choices we make. I'm just as guilty as anyone here, if not moreso. But I started off shooting deer with an inherited Winchester shotgun on an orchard I got permission to hunt wearing my ski coat in a self-constructed ground blind made of scrap wood and dead pine trees.


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