# Is there a difference in 209 primers ?



## drwink (Oct 15, 2003)

I don't know if anyone here has noticed or not, but I have heard some things on some other boards about different brands of 209 shotshell primers in muzzle loaders.
I can't say myself but some others haven't had some good things to say about CCI primers on muzzle loaders.
I have used Winchester & Federals and didn't notice anything, or maybe had enough shooting at the range to notice.
I just bought a box of CCI's before I read this & haven't used them yet. Some claim that either they burn to fast or to slow and if you are using pelleted powder pyrodex & triple seven alike, it won't fully ignite all the powder in the forward pellet.
Thus giving eratic groups & velocities.(chronograph different) and thats how they can tell.


Anyone hear or experience this ?

Wally


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## Big Nic (Apr 23, 2004)

DK , 

I can only speak from my shotgun reloading experince but ther is a definite difference in 209 primers. Having actually cronographed the same shotshell load 
with different primers I can tell you that the load speed (fps) will vary 20 t0 80
fps depending on which brand of primer is used . this is a noticable difference in a target load that is designed to do approximately 1200 fps. I can't help but think that this variance would show up in burn rate of black powder substitutes
ie...777 , pyrodex etc.. etc.. . I will admit that this is an educated guess and I have done no testing with black powder rifles but you have my .02 cents worth. 
An interesting question none the less


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## allegan whitetailer (Jul 9, 2004)

I have been using cci for a few years and have not saw a problem althow I haven't tried the pellets. I use regular pyrodex. From what I have been told the pellets are quicker igniting/burning. I would think the loose powder would have problems if any but it seems to burn fine even 100 grain plus.


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## NEMichsportsman (Jul 3, 2001)

Now you have got me scared....did I use Remington when I sighted in or was it another brand????? I guess I had never thought about a difference between one manufacturer to the next in primers


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Just like in reloading, anytime you change one peice of the puzzle, no matter how small, accuracy and consistancy can change as well. I even noticed some differences between #11 primers back when I used those.


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## drwink (Oct 15, 2003)

Swamp Monsters got a good point
Fortunately I have a partial box of Winchesters I used the last time at the range and sighted in. I will save the CCI's I got this year for after season & think I will get some others & do some testing after seaon.
Suppose I'll have to keep a log.
Probably give a report here when I do.


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## bluedevil (Feb 13, 2003)

I sighted in my muzzleloader and my dads today and noticed a HUGE difference in primers.. I shoot Winchester 209 primers and I _might_ have 1 or 2 that miss-fire out of a hole box. My dad just bought his muzzleloader and he decided to go with the Remington 209 primers and out of about 30 primers, I had about 10-12 of them miss-fire. 
At first I thought maybe the hammer wasn't hitting right, but after comparison to a fired one to a miss-fired one that was not the case. The odd thing was that the miss fire ones were consecutive in the box. I would get about 7-8 good ones and then 2-3 bad ones and so on. Maybe just a bad batch.
Also, after I got fed up with the Remingtons I was going to use my Winchesters(also just to make sure the hammer was hitting correctly) but the winchesters are a hair longer than the Remingtons and I could not close the break on the muzzleloader with them in it.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

Bluedevil, Are you sure that your primer pocket was clean? Maybe they wouldn't seat all the way?? That being said, there are some slight variances in those 209's and if the tolerances on your gun are really tight, I could see an issue. A buddy of mine cannot get a certain brand out of his gun after the shot...can't remember which brand it is though.

I'm looking at Encores at the moment or an Omega and then I'm switching to the 25 ACP conversion so I can use small rifle primers. 209's are almost to hot and far to inconsistant. The ACP conversion is cleaner and seems to be far more consistant. Well worth the $60. 

I'm using Muskat caps on my Remington and they seem to work great, better than the 209 conversions I've seen on this gun...cleaner anyway!


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## TrapperJohn (Jan 14, 2001)

I use winchesters to reload shotgun sheels and it rare to have 1 in 1,000 miss fire or not fire. 

Are you touching the ignition hole of the primer with your finger tips? Oil from your fingers good cause these to not fire properly.


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## jk hillsdale (Dec 7, 2002)

TrapperJohn said:


> Are you touching the ignition hole of the primer with your finger tips? Oil from your fingers good cause these to not fire properly.


That's a very helpful tip, and one which I've never heard mentioned. Thanks for the heads up.


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## bluedevil (Feb 13, 2003)

Swamp Monster said:


> Bluedevil, Are you sure that your primer pocket was clean? Maybe they wouldn't seat all the way??


After reading this I thought that it might be possible, so I just checked it and no the winchesters still dont fit. and thats with a complet soaking and cleaning of the breech plug and primer pocket last night. I did get the muzzleloader to close on one but it was very tight and really hard to open back up.


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## dogjaw (Nov 8, 2000)

Like others have said, primers play a big role. CCI primers are harder than the others, and a few folks have a problem with firing pins not striking hard enough. This is pretty rare. The CCI primer may simply not be a good match up with that paticular load. The best thing you can do is buy several different primers and use one that works best in *your* rifle. What works like crap in one gun may be fine in another. In any event, if you sight in and then change *any* component, you need to sight in again.

Primers failing can be from several things.
Improper handling and/or storage. Primers are easily contaminated and ruined. You have to take that out of the equation. Try a new batch of primers, they're cheap.
Improper seating. If a primer isn't seated properly, it will deform as it's being driven in and not fire.


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