# Looking for advice from bird dog owners



## setterpoint (Feb 20, 2015)

I run a bell with my astro that way I'm not looking at it all the time 
when I can't hear the bell then I check the astro to see if the dogs out of hearing or on point 
it take the worry away of losing your dog


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## Tonybob (Mar 16, 2014)

Some of my biggest mistakes while “training” my dog while hunting was hitting them with the shock collar when I couldn’t even see them. As bird hunter mentioned earlier, I’m the the one who should have had the E collar on. I hate to even think about how many times I nicked that dog when she was birdie. 
I purchased the Garmin TT GPS this year and it has greatly improved my comfort level as to what my dogs are doing when I can’t physically see or hear them early in the year due to ground cover.
With the GPS You can see them working an area on the screen and have a good idea of where they are working.
I previously thought my dog was way out of range and I would hack them back in with nicks when I got nervous on there whereabouts. “Horrible bird dog owner” . Lack of proper training.
With the new GPS I can see they are only 75 to 100 yards out when I previously thought they were a Mile away.
Your pup is very young. Yard train, field train, woods train, snow or no snow,it never ends. My dogs are 8 yrs old and I feel like they always need more. And they do. And so do I. 
Spend the money on a GPS tracking device and train,train,train. The shock button should be used for very serious infractions only, like cars , fur etc. IMO. 
Kind of funny that I spent all this money on a GPS and I don’t have my dogs running too far away anymore. Ummm.


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## ab5228 (Nov 13, 2009)

UP Hunter said:


> We have a 5 month old brittany pup that is very headstrong. I have been having a tough time keeping him close when we hunt. We actually thought we had lost him last Saturday. He ran off and we didn't hear his beeper collar for 20 minutes or so. We did hear him barking for us from a long way away at one time though but then nothing. What I am wondering is what would be recommended to track him. How well do GPS tracking collars work? Should I get a combo with a training collar? I have a DT training collar on him when we hunt right now but it doesn't seem to be very reliable. When I check it in the house it vibrates and shows that it is applying a shock but I don't seem to get a response from him most of the time when I try using it out in the woods. I am not sure that I am getting it tight enough around his neck for the electrodes to work. Any advice is eagerly accepted. I am deathly afraid of losing our little pal. We have large expanses of woods here in the western U.P. and a lot of wolves wandering around them.


My novice take is buy a gps, let him roll for now and have fun learning birds and the woods. Teach him to handle/quarter on training runs. Which means stay to the front, hunting the direction you are going, side you want him to cast etc..Use ecollar when hunting only at the end to reinforce recall. As far as hunting where you can see him, like you said that’s unrealistic. But run him in training where you can see him to work on handling. You’ve gotten a lot of good advice here. 

I do feel like it sounds like a lot of guys are shy to use ecollar stimulation which I think is good for a young dog around birds. Or for someone who isn’t confident in how and when to use. The dog needs to be taught what it means. I think it’s absolutely the way to go for training if you teach your dog the commands first without and teach them how to turn off stimulation by completing command. The settings I use for training my dog are low enough that I can’t even feel it when putting my fingers on the electrodes. I never “shock” my dog. The only time I’ve “shocked” her was when she 10 months old and nose to tail with a porcupine, I cranked it up and hit her with stimulation for a second then called her to me and off we hunted the other direction. I never use “nick” always constant then I can control how long it lasts. Which typically is a “nick” for a direction command. I use constant in training for reinforcing commands like recall to completion, holding light stimulation until she has come all the way to me. She knows that doing what I’ve asked turns the collar off. 

All this said I never use stimulation when hunting now. After training, she does what I ask without it. Fortunately my first bird dog wants to please me. As far as GPS I have the Dogtra pathfinder and have been happy with it. 

Good luck out there, it’s getting cold in this tree stand, my hand is starting to get numb from typing, so back in my pocket goes the phone. Maybe I should’ve gone bird hunting instead this morning...


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## Rasputin (Jan 13, 2009)

I've taken a different philosophy on my current pups than I had in the past. I used to be strong authoritarian, expecting immediate obedience. That is a great thing, but with the current brace I have been more focused on letting them have fun, now they are in their 2nd season and they obey well, are full of enthusiasm and have personality. I feel like my approach is paying dividends. 

My suggestion for a pup is to put a long lead on and try to use that to provide guidance before electricity. The time for the electricity will come, but I agree with birdhtr, let the pup develop desire and personality at this stage.

But I've never owned a Brittany.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

Rasputin said:


> That is a great thing, but with the current brace I have been more focused on letting them have fun, now they are in their 2nd season and they obey well, are full of enthusiasm and have personality. I feel like my approach is paying dividends


This is exactly what the return is.There is nothing more rewarding.I was the same but with my last pair I have done the same.My best two pointers to date.


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## UP Hunter (Jan 24, 2000)

Great info all. Thank you. You are giving this old dog a lot of new tricks. While this is not my 1st brittany by a long shot it is the first one that is a house dog as well. I hope to keep him that way but I have always been allergic to dogs. For some reason I have not had the same problem with Mose in the house. I hope it can continue. 
I don't know how some of you talk about training with a lead. How do you go through the woods. I just have a small back yard to work with him outdoors and in a month there very well could be 3 feet or more of snow in it.


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## ab5228 (Nov 13, 2009)

birdhntr said:


> This is exactly what the return is.There is nothing more rewarding.I was the same but with my last pair I have done the same.My best two pointers to date.


Makes sense to me. The advice I got for a first year dog was make sure they are good on recall and get them in the woods as much as possible. They can do no wrong first season on birds. Then start with training everything else...GSP’s point?


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## ab5228 (Nov 13, 2009)

UP Hunter said:


> Great info all. Thank you. You are giving this old dog a lot of new tricks. While this is not my 1st brittany by a long shot it is the first one that is a house dog as well. I hope to keep him that way but I have always been allergic to dogs. For some reason I have not had the same problem with Mose in the house. I hope it can continue.
> I don't know how some of you talk about training with a lead. How do you go through the woods. I just have a small back yard to work with him outdoors and in a month there very well could be 3 feet or more of snow in it.


I’ve trained on a lead in hayfield type cover. I don’t like using a lead in the woods. Let him roll for the rest of this season.


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## Bondhu (Sep 6, 2019)

Just as others have said. You need to check cord him and work on come when called. I would stop hunting him until obedience is solid. As far as gps either one from garmin a good ,until he passes 9 miles


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## augustus0603 (Oct 24, 2005)

https://www.lcsupply.com/LCS-Tangleproof-Check-Cord/productinfo/CC1/

Great training tool. It also slows them down in the woods and won't tangle or grab anything.


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## MossyHorns (Apr 14, 2011)

I have had 2 Brittany's, which has spanned the last 24 years. I used a shock collar on my 1st one, but found I had better luck rewarding him when he returned when called. I never used a shock collar on my current one and she is now 9. When she was young, I would blow the whistle when she got out of range and she was rewarded with a treat (pepperoni stick) when she came back. Both of my dogs got to the point that they would always look back to find me and then take off again. I will admit that I got frustrated with the 1st dog and wish I never had purchased a shock collar for him. Patience is the key.


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## shaffe48b (Oct 22, 2019)

augustus0603 said:


> https://www.lcsupply.com/LCS-Tangleproof-Check-Cord/productinfo/CC1/
> 
> Great training tool. It also slows them down in the woods and won't tangle or grab anything.


That might get ordered. I always run my puppy on his check cord at the local park even if I don't hold it. Of course then he learns that I'm a hero who always comes when he yelps to untangle him.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

ab5228 said:


> Makes sense to me. The advice I got for a first year dog was make sure they are good on recall and get them in the woods as much as possible. They can do no wrong first season on birds. Then start with training everything else...GSP’s point?


Yup they point.In fact even when a Brittany or setter rips out their bird.lol.


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## birdhntr (Jan 25, 2014)

UP Hunter said:


> birdhntr, Thanks for putting it that way. I always thought that the advantage of the e collar is that you are not directly punishing your dog and thus he doesn't think that you are doing anything to him. He just believes that something bad happened to him when he didn't behave. I may be naive in thinking that. I don't know for sure. From what I am seeing on this thread for answers I still think that a GPS/e collar combo is probably a good thing to have. Not just because of training but to be able to track the dog when he gets too far away. We will be done hunting for the year after this weekend so anything I get is for next year anyway. Unless, of course, it warms up and the snow goes for the December grouse season. It isn't any fun hunting with 3 feet of powder on the ground.


I would also recognize that you have a high energy dog so be aware that dogs of that nature need to run more to burn off the steam and respond to training better. Sometimes field Trial folks will run a dog a little or a lot leading up to an event.Some will even run a dog hard the same day before their event.
In training it can be very conducive to have a dog run some open ground void of birds to burn off steam before putting them in a spot known to have game.Putting the dog on game right away can be less productive.


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## fowl (Feb 15, 2003)

Was trying to not chime in, but can’t help it. My 2 cents: Focus on basic obedience/ yard work first. Introduce birds and gun properly. Introduce an e-collar properly before use in the field. IMHO 5 months is young for most dogs to run on wild birds in a hunting situation. All dogs are different. Some will handle wild birds successfully at a young age, some need to move slower. Is your goal to have a good bird dog to hunt over or to shoot birds? I would work on creating a good bird dog and the later will come. Hard to go the other way though. 


Sent from my iPhone using Michigan Sportsman


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## ab5228 (Nov 13, 2009)

birdhntr said:


> Yup they point.In fact even when a Brittany or setter rips out their bird.lol.


I always figured they’d be chasing porcupines or deer while the real bird dogs did the what they’re supposed to... Guess you learn something new everyday.


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## ab5228 (Nov 13, 2009)

To the original poster. I found it overwhelming when I got my pup the amount of opposing viewpoints on the way to train a pointing dog. I tried to learn different approaches and decided what way I’d train my dog and stuck with it. Then I learned more from just watching the dog learn and respond. It’s not rocket science, but if you ask a question you’ll get 100 different answers.


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## midwestfisherman (Apr 19, 2001)

C20chris said:


> I have a dog that loves the water... except when in the form of rain. My first year hunting I was out for an evening hunt. I was running a beeper e-collar. It started to rain a little and she got out of my range to hear the beeper, which is very unusual for this dog. I had no idea where she was and it was starting to get dark. I turned the e-collar up and poked her, fortunately I heard a very faint distant "YELP!" but she wouldn't budge with additional pokes. My instant thought was that she was caught in a foot trap. So I worked my way towards her, playing a not so fun game of Marco Polo with the shock collar. When I got to her there was absolutely nothing wrong and she came running to me and then resumed bird hunting like nothing  . She had just found a really nice cedar tree out of the rain...
> 
> Nest purchase was a Garmin Alpha. Love this thing. I feel it has saved me a time or two, or at least a lot of headache. Also, if we are dog sitting and go for a walk the friends dog gets a GPS collar.


if your dog is yelping when you hit the button you have your collar set too high! The collar is not meant to be a locating collar by making the dog yelp! SMH!


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## C20chris (Dec 4, 2007)

midwestfisherman said:


> if your dog is yelping when you hit the button you have your collar set too high! The collar is not meant to be a locating collar by making the dog yelp! SMH!


SMH... clearly you didn't read the whole post or you would have seen where I said "and then turned the collar up" and at the end where my next purchase was a GPS collar


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## UP Hunter (Jan 24, 2000)

Updating this old post. Thank you to whoever suggested the Garmin Alpha. Admittedly I am not a good dog trainer and Mose is still doing his own thing most of the time but I am not worried about losing him like I was last year. He ignores the tone so I have the collar set for vibrate, momentary, and constant. He is a 70 lb. bundle of energy and we are enjoying watching him tear through the woods. Any birds that we get would be a bonus but we haven't shot anything for him yet in the last season and a half.


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