# Find Private Land to Goose Hunt..



## NWTFZ (Apr 6, 2013)

Hey guys, just curious if anyone is willing to share some techniques to finding private land to goose hunt in West Michigan? Thanks!


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## griffondog (Dec 27, 2005)

Knock Knock.:evilsmile

Griff


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## shooterutting (Sep 2, 2010)

Get a map. Find a roost. follow the birds. Knock on land owners door. Works for all of us lol 

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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

The bigger your wallet, the bigger the selection of fields.


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## michiganoutdoorsman (Dec 29, 2010)

Bellyup said:


> The bigger your wallet, the bigger the selection of fields.


I have plenty of fields from just knocking on doors. Sure, some people pay good money for some spots, but everyone I know just gets permission without leasing fields/property.


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

michiganoutdoorsman said:


> I have plenty of fields from just knocking on doors. Sure, some people pay good money for some spots, but everyone I know just gets permission without leasing fields/property.


There are some out there. Getting harder and harder to find though, especially when the birds are using them. 

A good tip in seriousness, don't just walk up and ask, create some small talk, and become somewhat kowledgable about farming practises. A little bit goes a long ways in creating that bond. Show them you are a responsible person, ethical, and have some good common sense about you, then ask.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

it really comes down to finding a large roost that holds birds. following them to feed then knocking on doors.

finding smaller roosts with less birds can be more beneficial as less chance of competition might make it easier to get permission.

gravel pits, big farm ponds, golf courses, town parks :evil: is good place to start.


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## deanpeaner (Jan 27, 2011)

Bellyup said:


> The bigger your wallet, the bigger the selection of fields.


 
Not true, I have access to many fields and never paid a red cent! farmers like respect, if you ask with respect and don't over step your boundaries it shouldn't be a problem getting access. Start small, ask for one field and then maybe the following year the farmer will be more willing to give more access if his wishes were met. And offer a bird, a lot of times all they ask for is a breast or 2.


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## charcoal300zxtt (Sep 8, 2011)

Knock on doors, if its a farm offer to help throw hay in the summer that will usually let them know your willing to pitch in and help for the right to hunt and not looking for a free handout.


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## Duck-Hunter (Mar 31, 2005)

If you find a field with birds in it don't get all geeked up and start throwing dollar signs at the guy/girl. It's getting harder to get fields because people start talking money off the rip. I've seen guys spend hundreds on a field and get skunked or not shoot many birds. You are hunting a migratory bird, here one day gone the next. like said before try to spark up a conversation. Also it doesn't hurt to lend a hand. I've stopped and helped them throw bales, help fix some things I've even towed wagons back to the farm. I've had farmers tell me no for YEARS I keep coming back(don't be pushy). Then had them say yes because they remember me and see me around. Also don't get discouraged you will hear No way more then you will hear Yes. 


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## Retiredducker (Oct 11, 2011)

Sometimes its a matter of ethics.Is the field currently hunted or has a history of being hunted? Are you wanting or willing to try to bump the other guy out? That's where the $$ comes in and relationships go out the window.


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## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

Head East would be my suggestion!  Keep driving until you hit water then start looking and throwing cash around. 

Good luck


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## shooterutting (Sep 2, 2010)

Sit at the end of smokes driveway and follow him around as he scouts. You will probably find birds. Then get permission for the field next to his x field! 

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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Retiredducker said:


> Sometimes its a matter of ethics.Is the field currently hunted or has a history of being hunted? Are you wanting or willing to try to bump the other guy out? That's where the $$ comes in and relationships go out the window.


How is that a matter of ethics?


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

TSS Caddis said:


> How is that a matter of ethics?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk


If you have to ask that question, it is best nobody answers.....


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

Bellyup said:


> If you have to ask that question, it is best nobody answers.....


Ok, genius.

_*Sometimes its a matter of ethics.*
Is the field currently hunted or has a history of being hunted? 
Are you wanting or willing to try to bump the other guy out? That's where the $$ comes in and relationships go out the window. _

So it is unethical for someone to pay to play and bump somone that was getting a free ride? 

Not unethical in the least bit. In the end the farmer is making the choice on how is property is to be used.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

TSS Caddis said:


> Ok, genius.
> 
> _*Sometimes its a matter of ethics.*
> Is the field currently hunted or has a history of being hunted?
> ...


Ethically one shouldn't back door a person like this. You're correct it's a farmers decision. When a farmer sees they can make money it will be that way year after year. Most should be kind enough to lend the farmer a hand. If someone else has permission I would kindly ask the farmer if I could reach out to them and join them. I don't think I would like to think I ruined a potential father/son hunt because I waived cash.


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## S.B. Walleyes&Waterfowl (Jan 10, 2012)

SBE II said:


> If someone else has permission I would kindly ask the farmer if I could reach out to them and join them. I don't think I would like to think I ruined a potential father/son hunt because I waived cash.


That's definitely the sportsman thing to do. Great answer! I only have one field to hunt at this point and its mediocre a couple weeks outta the season, and that pushing it. Looking to get a few more this year to expand my options, willing to help out and all that mentioned above, just not great at the door knocking routine. I guess we will see what happens...

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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

SBE II said:


> Ethically one shouldn't back door a person like this.


I don't find that being a decision of eithics. When getting something for nothing you should have no expectation of a guarantee. I don't find it wrong for someone to see something of value and offering to pay for it.

I also don't believe it is always just a dollars and cents decision by the farmer. I believe most farmers if given the choice would rather not lease since they don't want to relinquish any type of control over their land. But I also know some farmers that leased so they would know exactly who is hunting and that there will not be drama, the money had nothing to do with it.

You hear this a lot in the deer forums. "I used to hunt near Cadillac on 200acres. This year my buddy screwed me because he decided to let different friends hunt" or "This year my buddy screwed me because he decided to lease half of the property". Well, no one screwed you, the free access that someone was nice enough to grant you just came to an end.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

TSS Caddis said:


> ...I also don't believe it is always just a dollars and cents decision by the farmer. I believe most farmers if given the choice would rather not lease since they don't want to relinquish any type of control over their land. But I also know some farmers that leased so they would know exactly who is hunting and that there will not be drama, the money had nothing to do with it.


Valid points. I know some farmers are afraid of legal ramifications if they charge money. But the other side of the coin is what you stated...by charging a fee, the farmer knows who he is dealing with.


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

SBE II said:


> It's apparent you don't value friendships/relationships. I would never try to fleece a buddy on land he hunts, I would instead ask him, hey if you want to lock this down I would be interested in leasing this you...


So now your interjecting 'buddy' into the mix :lol: 

And your time is free but in essence it was payment to the farmer.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

TSS Caddis said:


> So now your interjecting 'buddy' into the mix :lol:
> 
> And your time is free but in essence it was payment to the farmer.
> 
> ...


Look at post #32 I'm quoting you, you indicated "buddy." 

So when you help your wife is that payment? When you help a friend is that payment? 

Why you keep avoiding the question about the youth calling clinic? It's a good cause..


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

If you recall that comment had nothing to do with your original premise that it is unethical to lease property someone else was hunting for free. With the difficulty you have staying on message, I really need to have you write a thesis before your allowed to argue.




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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

just ducky said:


> Because if I'm a landowner, and I'm charging you money, I'm going to require ID and information on you, and have a record. Walking up and saying "hi, I'm Joe Smith, and here's my $500. see ya" ain't gonna cut it.


But you're not all landowners...I think you lack to indicate you see more integrity in people willing to pay..


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## craigrh13 (Oct 24, 2011)

I hate leasing, and people who lease. It changes the whole game of hunting and ruins it for everyone. Thank God it has not come to that around here. As soon as it does though, I will quit hunting if I have to.


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## ahartz (Dec 28, 2000)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> sad thing is, soon as that farmer exchanges money for hunting rights he is no longer protected for accidental liability.
> 
> michigan has protection for farmers allowing people to hunt their land written into law somewhere (i couldn't point anyone to it) but i know it exists. Farmer in the thumb area years ago lost when a goose hunter shot himself on accident...didn't die but he or the family successfully sued the farmer. he had leased it to a "goose crew".
> 
> he no longer lets anyone hunt his land. :yikes:


I have signed many hold harmless agreements. No money is exchanged, however it sets everyones expectations and authorizations. I have one I signed that a real estate attorney drafted, whited it out, made an original, and now offer it to owners who may be on the fence about granting permission...andy


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

craigrh13 said:


> I hate leasing, and people who lease. It changes the whole game of hunting and ruins it for everyone. Thank God it has not come to that around here. As soon as it does though, I will quit hunting if I have to.


That's what makes DIY hunts out of state tough as well, but all part of the game.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

SBE II said:


> But you're not all landowners...I think you lack to indicate you see more integrity in people willing to pay..


Well I honestly don't. But this conversation (especially Andy's input) has me thinking a bit differently now. I always perceived a "lease" agreement as being paid, but I really never thought about requiring all of that information when you aren't requiring a fee? Hmmm....gotta think about that for my bowhunters on my farm.


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

ahartz said:


> I have signed many hold harmless agreements. No money is exchanged, however it sets everyones expectations and authorizations. I have one I signed that a real estate attorney drafted, whited it out, made an original, and now offer it to owners who may be on the fence about granting permission...andy


i used to carry a copy of the michigan law with me when asking farmers. most did not know they are protected if they just let a hunter on their land to hunt. It was somewhere in the agriculture laws, been so long since i chased geese in early season tho, it coulda changed.

jist of it said farmers/agriculture were protected under some michigan statute granting land access to hunt free range game, yada yada. soon as that farmer leases, he takes responsibility and needs to carry some kind of liability insurance that would cover him personally.


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## Kennybks (Mar 29, 2010)

Lol, felt compelled to interject a little here having many experiences in these issues over my life as well and continuing today.

Country where I grew up it was nothing to just simply ask kindly, show respect, and you'd be in like Flint, no problems. 0$- 20 years of enjoyment, and I always helped them around the farm, brought goodies, offered game, etc. All are long gone history varieties of reasons already mentioned by others.

Neither they nor I felt like someone was being taken advantage of, or having a "free ride". Those days unfortunately are gone. $$$ rules in many scenarios, but there are still a few "gentlemen agreements" to be had if you look.

I've had waterfowl leases where I managed and sub-leased to guys of my choosing that wouldn't over-hunt, disrespect mine or the lo wishes. They typically worked fine, but I'd have the occasional jerk that would go over me and try to overbid me. My relationship with lo, he would just call me, let me know who was doing it, and he'd be removed from further options.

Current lease, 12 years paying, 20+ years hunting. I don't pay anywhere near what he could get, and he knows it. He'd rather have us in there than deal with these squabbles relayed in this thread. He's turned down 4X what I'm paying.

Leased signs get ignored all the time. They might even increase visits. 

Diversity of people is sometimes pretty challenging to deal with. Got to get out and work to establish relations. If it works out, fine, if not, hit the one down the road.

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## walleyeman2006 (Sep 12, 2006)

get your. 22 out in April and ask to kill some woodchucks...ask for some trapping permission on tiled ground where muskrat plug tile...simply running a trap line got me 5000 acres. .. but farmings to fast around here any more harvest and plowed down. ..so I hunt the water now

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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

walleyeman2006 said:


> ... but farmings to fast around here any more harvest and plowed down. ..so I hunt the water now


This is a really good point also...farming has changed so much in my lifetime. My dad grew up with 7 siblings on a farm of less than 80 acres. When I was a kid, we could wander the country around that farm because everyone knew everyone, and this crazy "lawsuit happy" society wasn't even a dream yet. Searching for a landowner 20 years ago used to be fairly simple. Nowadays they could live anywhere. Farming is dominated by large acreage production farming, with farmers themselves leasing lots of land for production, the entire chain has turned into huge business. 

Life was so much easier back when....


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

just ducky said:


> This is a really good point also...farming has changed so much in my lifetime. My dad grew up with 7 siblings on a farm of less than 80 acres. When I was a kid, we could wander the country around that farm because everyone knew everyone, and this crazy "lawsuit happy" society wasn't even a dream yet. Searching for a landowner 20 years ago used to be fairly simple. Nowadays they could live anywhere. Farming is dominated by large acreage production farming, with farmers themselves leasing lots of land for production, the entire chain has turned into huge business.
> 
> Life was so much easier back when....


With the price of seed why wouldn't it...can't make it being a dairy farmer.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

just ducky said:


> Well I honestly don't. But this conversation (especially Andy's input) has me thinking a bit differently now. I always perceived a "lease" agreement as being paid, but I really never thought about requiring all of that information when you aren't requiring a fee? Hmmm....gotta think about that for my bowhunters on my farm.


The original conversation began as gaining permission, people suggested leasing, and then we started discussing why you feel landowners are more secure in leasing to people. Or whatever it is that you meant.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

SBE II said:


> The original conversation began as gaining permission, people suggested leasing, and then we started discussing why you feel landowners are more secure in leasing to people. Or whatever it is that you meant.


Whatever dude. Like many of the discussions here, this one has gotten old. On to bigger and better things...


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

just ducky said:


> Whatever dude. Like many of the discussions here, this one has gotten old. On to bigger and better things...


Yes I get it, it took another person saying something similar to I to get the point across.

Some of your statements lead me to believe you must only hunt GMU's or leased ground? Now I will say this, come down to IL, money talks..But people live off greed down here...I drove around four Fridays in a row during harvest season down here with a platbook and never received permission for one field. I ended up meeting up with some guys to be able to go and that's because I asked the farmer if he mind if I gave them a call. When invited I brought my entire rig and put my calls away until asked to bring them out.

I went with another group of guys down here and always bring my rig. Does it cost me more than them in gas and time, yes it does, but it's appreciation and integrity.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

SBE II said:


> Yes I get it, it took another person saying something similar to I to get the point across.
> 
> Some of your statements lead me to believe you must only hunt GMU's or leased ground? Now I will say this, come down to IL, money talks..But people live off greed down here...I drove around four Fridays in a row during harvest season down here with a platbook and never received permission for one field. I ended up meeting up with some guys to be able to go and that's because I asked the farmer if he mind if I gave them a call. When invited I brought my entire rig and put my calls away until asked to bring them out.
> 
> I went with another group of guys down here and always bring my rig. Does it cost me more than them in gas and time, yes it does, but it's appreciation and integrity.


FYI, I hunt public and private property, but don't personally lease. Although I have hunted with some who do. I'm fortunate when it comes to deer hunting...I have my own farm, plus one of almost 500 acres that a family friend owns in the heart of the central SLP deer country. No need for me to lease.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

just ducky said:


> FYI, I hunt public and private property, but don't personally lease. Although I have hunted with some who do. I'm fortunate when it comes to deer hunting...I have my own farm, plus one of almost 500 acres that a family friend owns in the heart of the central SLP deer country. No need for me to lease.


Do they have your ID and thumb prints? :evilsmile


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

SBE II said:


> Do they have your ID and thumb prints? :evilsmile












Ah...you so funny slob son! :evilsmile


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

just ducky said:


> FYI, I hunt public and private property, but don't personally lease. Although I have hunted with some who do. I'm fortunate when it comes to deer hunting...I have my own farm, plus one of almost 500 acres that a family friend owns in the heart of the central SLP deer country. No need for me to lease.


I've thrown money at my computer monitor for the last hour but SBE keeps posting.


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## Kennybks (Mar 29, 2010)

Try this.

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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

TSS Caddis said:


> I've thrown money at my computer monitor for the last hour but SBE keeps posting.


Throw it in the youth calling clinic you avoid.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

SBE II said:


> Throw it in the youth calling clinic you avoid.


Man SBE you're really trying to pad those post count numbers lately eh? Lots to say about nuthin....


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## Bellyup (Nov 13, 2007)

Stop already boys. Save it for the threads on CWAC after the meeting. 

SBE, you know JD will post on every thread, so stop baiting him. And once Caddylack gets rolling the peeps are sure to follow the trail. Just save the debate for when the season date meeting takes place at CWAC. Bound to be some fodder floating around after that meeting.


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

SBE II said:


> Throw it in the youth calling clinic you avoid.


I think your being a real piece of crap about this. Whether caddis or anyone is loaded or dirt poor like me, no one has to be told where to spend their money and consistently being called on it. Very disappointed. Apparently you have no respect at all for anyone


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## michiganoutdoorsman (Dec 29, 2010)

This thread is like a bad movie. It sucks but you can't stop watching...


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

sswhitelightning said:


> I think your being a real piece of crap about this. Whether caddis or anyone is loaded or dirt poor like me, no one has to be told where to spend their money and consistently being called on it. Very disappointed. Apparently you have no respect at all for anyone


Either do people that brag about rolling in the money or that suggest leasing hunting land..Sorry I value our youth and this sport more than I do the killing of the fowl. So if that makes me a piece of crap, so be it..

BTW I went beyond just money and got them a donation. Anything for the kids, I also donate to any cancer, or non for profit causes I believe in that will benefit the good of our society. And if I made millions per year or enough to start an organization, I would do it. Not for recognition but because I believe that this society needs more positive things happening. But hey I have no respect for anyone, thanks for your assumption's about me.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

just ducky said:


> Man SBE you're really trying to pad those post count numbers lately eh? Lots to say about nuthin....


Don't worry JD, I will never catch you, because during hunting season I will actually hunt


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

SBE II said:


> Don't worry JD, I will never catch you, because during hunting season I will actually hunt


you can hope...and maybe someday. it's always good to have goals :evilsmile


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## PhilBernardi (Sep 6, 2010)

Sometimes an animated gif is better than words :lol:











Carry on....


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

Okay Phil....I'm ready for the next one...


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

SBE II said:


> Either do people that brag about rolling in the money or that suggest leasing hunting land..Sorry I value our youth and this sport more than I do the killing of the fowl. So if that makes me a piece of crap, so be it..
> 
> BTW I went beyond just money and got them a donation. Anything for the kids, I also donate to any cancer, or non for profit causes I believe in that will benefit the good of our society. And if I made millions per year or enough to start an organization, I would do it. Not for recognition but because I believe that this society needs more positive things happening. But hey I have no respect for anyone, thanks for your assumption's about me.


Again, you can never stay on topic and put together a coherent or honest thought as a response.

SS, what SBE doesn't realize, that I think many do, is that his calling me out to donate is not about me, it is about him stroking his own ego and making sure everyone on the board knows he donated as he just pointed out again.


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## flighthunter (Nov 21, 2005)

PhilBernardi said:


> Sometimes an animated gif is better than words :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Since everyone is being a richard noggin, aren't all GIF's animated  :lol:


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

TSS Caddis said:


> Again, you can never stay on topic and put together a coherent or honest thought as a response.
> 
> SS, what SBE doesn't realize, that I think many do, is that his calling me out to donate is not about me, it is about him stroking his own ego and making sure everyone on the board knows he donated as he just pointed out again.


HAHA, now that you have a galley you speak up. Whose stroking whose ego again? I'm not the one running around the forum boasting about what I have.

In all seriousness, I can't give to everything I would like, but when it can have a positive affect on the sport we all love, why not...


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

flighthunter said:


> Since everyone is being a richard noggin, aren't all GIF's animated  :lol:


I got yer "GIF" right here....


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## smoke (Jun 3, 2006)

I'm gone for a few days away from the forum and this thread goes ballistic?? 

Hmmmmm must be the extreme heat playing tricks on your brains?! 

Got to attribute this dribble to something. All the while i'm working in the plant that has got to be 130+ heat index with cnc machines breaking like there's no tomorrow and you guys are at work bickering about NOTHING! What a waste of thread space and band width...................... 

BAck to my lunch which is the first real break i've had in 3 days! 

Back to your keyboard cowboy ***** measuring contest!!!!!!!!!
Later
Smoke


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## TSS Caddis (Mar 15, 2002)

SBE II said:


> I'm not the one running around the forum boasting about what I have.


I'd love to see that comment backed up with some sort of proof.


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## Duckman Racing (Oct 11, 2004)

SBE II said:


> HAHA, now that you have a galley you speak up. Whose stroking whose ego again? I'm not the one running around the forum boasting about what I have.


I don't always agree with Caddis, but I honestly don't ever remember him bragging about money on this forum. Some others refer to him as "daddy warbucks" and he has gone along with some of the joking, but he has never been one to talk much about his money or his equipment.

You are in the wrong here, like you have been in many other threads, and once again you can't let it go.


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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

smoke said:


> I'm gone for a few days away from the forum and this thread goes ballistic??
> 
> Hmmmmm must be the extreme heat playing tricks on your brains?!
> 
> ...


Summer doldrums Todd. Too hot to fish...quit golfing years ago...mama's too hot to have a run...dog even looks at me like it's too hot for him to go out and take a ##$#$ :lol: But the weekend is almost here, and some cooler weather. Got some fish calling my name on Sunday morning


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## tallbear (May 18, 2005)

Shiawassee_Kid said:


> i used to carry a copy of the michigan law with me when asking farmers. most did not know they are protected if they just let a hunter on their land to hunt. It was somewhere in the agriculture laws, been so long since i chased geese in early season tho, it coulda changed.
> 
> jist of it said farmers/agriculture were protected under some michigan statute granting land access to hunt free range game, yada yada. soon as that farmer leases, he takes responsibility and needs to carry some kind of liability insurance that would cover him personally.


http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(hpr...=mcl-324-73301


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## Shiawassee_Kid (Nov 28, 2000)

tallbear said:


> http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(hpr...=mcl-324-73301


awesome tallbear, thanks for the link!

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## just ducky (Aug 23, 2002)

tallbear said:


> http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(hpr...=mcl-324-73301


Thanks Mike!


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

Duckman Racing said:


> I don't always agree with Caddis, but I honestly don't ever remember him bragging about money on this forum. Some others refer to him as "daddy warbucks" and he has gone along with some of the joking, but he has never been one to talk much about his money or his equipment.
> 
> You are in the wrong here, like you have been in many other threads, and once again you can't let it go.


Probably a correct statement. Since all were assuming about me these are the things I have considered and the daddy warbucks thing was relavent. 

Ahh well, sorry Caddis.


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## sswhitelightning (Dec 14, 2004)

SBE II said:


> Either do people that brag about rolling in the money or that suggest leasing hunting land..Sorry I value our youth and this sport more than I do the killing of the fowl. So if that makes me a piece of crap, so be it..
> 
> BTW I went beyond just money and got them a donation. Anything for the kids, I also donate to any cancer, or non for profit causes I believe in that will benefit the good of our society. And if I made millions per year or enough to start an organization, I would do it. Not for recognition but because I believe that this society needs more positive things happening. But hey I have no respect for anyone, thanks for your assumption's about me.


Ok. Attaboy. 
I willing to bet many, myself and caddis included donate lots of money on a wide range of things like your cancer comment. But we don't need to tell everyone or force others into following suit. I read along with everyone else how you kept throwing donations at youth clinic. If you did great. Keep the rest of us out of it. We're grown ups and can make our own minds up. Thanks for your donations to youth and being a cancer donater.


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## SBE II (Jan 13, 2009)

sswhitelightning said:


> Ok. Attaboy.
> I willing to bet many, myself and caddis included donate lots of money on a wide range of things like your cancer comment. But we don't need to tell everyone or force others into following suit. I read along with everyone else how you kept throwing donations at youth clinic. If you did great. Keep the rest of us out of it. We're grown ups and can make our own minds up. Thanks for your donations to youth and being a cancer donater.


No problem and if you ever have a cause you're donating to please let me know as I will throw some money at it..Unless of course its affiliated with PETA


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