# Baseboard Heat



## CaseBones (Jan 28, 2010)

I've searched through a few threads but couldn't find what I'm seeking. We have a closed system, water baseboard heat. The boiler is fired by propane. I have checked the baseboards over and for the life of me, cannot find any GD shut-offs or anything to control the water moving through each stretch. I have a feeling water is not circulating as it should be, because all the baseboards on the ground level are either cold or only very mildly lukewarm. The only baseboards that are warm are in the upper bungalow. I can hear as the water intermittently gets pumped out as the boiler fires (the pipes clink and make noise) but it just does not feel like the amount of heat being given off is what it should be. I know this is not much info, but does anybody maybe have a suggestion as what to look for? Or maybe a good reference for a plumber or somebody familiar with this type of system in the Belleville, MI area?


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

My first advice is to find the flow control valves..

My second advice is to find the flow control valves...

Does your boiler have zone valves? Looks like a box with wires coming out of it inline with the copper pipe? That's the first place I'd check. They'll be near the boiler, not in the rooms.

Did you check thermostats to make sure they are working?

Unless all your baseboards are plumbed in a series configuration, there has to be some way to balance the loads, especially if you have long runs and short runs.

Don't over-complicate it.. baseboard heating is nothing more than a boiler, some pipe, a pump that sends the water in a circle through the pipes, and one or more valves to control flow. Trace the pipes coming out of the boiler!

Also, you might want to check the outlet temp and return temp going into and out of the boiler to see if maybe its a sizing problem.


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## CrankYanker (Aug 20, 2011)

Do you have Zone valves in the basement? Is there one or more circulating pumps?


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## polaris500 (Jul 24, 2010)

As CrankYanker questioned, does the lower level have its own thermostat? If it does then a zone valve separates the two systems (upstairs and down stairs) allowing individual control of the two zones. You may have a zone that has an air lock (recently serviced, ran low on water?) The valves have switches in them allowing boiler operation after they have opened, they can fail, not real common.

It is a fairly simple system and once you understand it they are no big deal.


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## CaseBones (Jan 28, 2010)

Only 1 thermostat for the house in an interior room. No recent service to the system. No basement, we are on a slab. Below are pictures, from what I can tell, the only thing controlling any type of "zone" are the yellow valves. All are open (in line with the pipe).


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## WALLEYE MIKE (Jan 7, 2001)

I have 3 zones. Upstairs,main level, and basement. When that zone calls for heat a electric valve opens a gate and delivers heated water. My systems is 45 yo and has always had 3 zones. No shut offs other than right by the furnace.

You should have bleed valves at the end in each room. Takes a flat screwdriver. Might be possible you have an air block.

I would call a furnace place. they will charge but you will get it fixed much quicker than figuring out/doing yourself. Follow him around and watch what he does and remember for the next time it might happen.


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

Why is the thermostat only reading 145 deg??


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## rollin stone (Dec 31, 2011)

If this has been ongoing or graduall problem it is probably air locked and needs to be bled. If it happened all of a sudden it could be frozen . Any cold or drafty areas?


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

To me it looks like you have only 1 zone. My set up is simila to Walleye Mike's but a little newer. I do not have bleeders on the baseboard. I have to bleed mine at the boiler drain valve. It has an automatic water fill valve that fills as I bleed. I can drain 1 zone at a time. Your system looks like it would be very easy to bleed. As said erlyer find a boiler guy and watch him do it. It definitely sounds like air in the system.


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## WALLEYE MIKE (Jan 7, 2001)

He might have one thermostat but does he have one run to go upstairs and one for down stairs (both get heat at the same time). Easy to tell by following the pipes that come off the pump. Or is it one big loop though the whole house? (kinda doubt it).


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## CaseBones (Jan 28, 2010)

I believe it is one loop on the ground floor, with a separate run heading up to the bungalow. All controlled by the 1 thermostat. No cold-exposed areas, from what's being said sounds like I might have an air block. There is definitely the sound of swishing water and some clinking happening as the water is pumped through the pipes...now just have to locate those bleeders. 
My concern is that it doesn't seem like water is flowing to all the ground floor areas as it should, the baseboards are giving off little to no heat, while upstairs they are toasty. I was told to check the valves that control each section of baseboard, which there are none- looks to be just a long copper pipe with radiator fins, no valves anywhere except in the closet with the boiler.


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## Murphy (Aug 10, 2005)

CaseBones said:


> I believe it is one loop on the ground floor, with a separate run heading up to the bungalow. All controlled by the 1 thermostat. No cold-exposed areas, from what's being said sounds like I might have an air block. There is definitely the sound of swishing water and some clinking happening as the water is pumped through the pipes...now just have to locate those bleeders.
> My concern is that it doesn't seem like water is flowing to all the ground floor areas as it should, the baseboards are giving off little to no heat, while upstairs they are toasty. I was told to check the valves that control each section of baseboard, which there are none- looks to be just a long copper pipe with radiator fins, no valves anywhere except in the closet with the boiler.


Air rises.. so if you have air, it would most likely be upstairs.

Check boiler room for zone valves or flow control valve somewhere.. 

Can you inspect the entire run of pipe between boiler and radiator?? or does some of it run under cement or something?


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## WALLEYE MIKE (Jan 7, 2001)

CaseBones said:


> I believe it is one loop on the ground floor, with a separate run heading up to the bungalow. All controlled by the 1 thermostat. No cold-exposed areas, from what's being said sounds like I might have an air block. There is definitely the sound of swishing water and some clinking happening as the water is pumped through the pipes...now just have to locate those bleeders.
> My concern is that it doesn't seem like water is flowing to all the ground floor areas as it should, the baseboards are giving off little to no heat, while upstairs they are toasty. I was told to check the valves that control each section of baseboard, which there are none- looks to be just a long copper pipe with radiator fins, no valves anywhere except in the closet with the boiler.


Your bleeders will be at the end of that copper pipe at the elbow where it will continue below the floor and into the next room. A little nipple (at least on mine) right on the top and on the end of the elbow.

The clinking sound you here is hot water going thru the pipe and its (pipe) expanding. We only hear it at night when its perfectly quiet.


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## CrankYanker (Aug 20, 2011)

Find the fresh water pipe going into your boiler. It should have a Pressure reducing valve on it. Will look like this.
[ame="http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/121254909324?lpid=82"]Bell Gossett 110192 FB 38 Pressure Reducing Valve 1 2 | eBay[/ame]

Flip the lever up.
Under your circ. pump it looks like there is a boiler drain there. Get a 5 gal bucket and crack that drain open. If it sputters air you have found your problem. Once its is solid water close the drain. Then flip the lever back to the down position.


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## CrankYanker (Aug 20, 2011)

Forgot to mention. Turn the power off to your boiler first and try to do it while its not hot. You don't want to rush cold water into hot cast iron.


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## mark.n.chip (Jun 16, 2007)

He may have a zone valve for first floor but it may be shot. It is an electrical device that can fail. May need replacing


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

CaseBones said:


> I've searched through a few threads but couldn't find what I'm seeking. We have a closed system, water baseboard heat. The boiler is fired by propane. I have checked the baseboards over and for the life of me, cannot find any GD shut-offs or anything to control the water moving through each stretch. I have a feeling water is not circulating as it should be, because all the baseboards on the ground level are either cold or only very mildly lukewarm. The only baseboards that are warm are in the upper bungalow. I can hear as the water intermittently gets pumped out as the boiler fires (the pipes clink and make noise) but it just does not feel like the amount of heat being given off is what it should be. I know this is not much info, but does anybody maybe have a suggestion as what to look for? Or maybe a good reference for a plumber or somebody familiar with this type of system in the Belleville, MI area?


 Looking at your pictures again, I do not see any zone valves. They are usually located on a manifold. Another thought is that your runs might be too long. Are the upper baseboards the first out of the boiler? The last baseboard before the water returns to the boiler are the ones that would have the coolest water. I am not an expert or boiler man. Just my opinion. You might need another zone.


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## rollin stone (Dec 31, 2011)

Wondering what the problem was and the solution.


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## CaseBones (Jan 28, 2010)

It appears the runs are just so long coming from the boiler to the far room that by the time the water makes it there, it just doesn't have as much heat left. I am on a slab, there is one spot where the pipes cross a doorway and are ran underground. This I'm sure is not to best insulator right now. So I cranked the thermostat. The rooms close to the boiler are TOASTY, the far room is just being accepted as chilly. In the spring I am due for some improvements to the system. Not doing anything right now that would take the system down for any period of time.


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