# Shotgun for 10 year old



## caseman (Apr 22, 2004)

I have a 10 year old who will be taking hunter safety this summer. I wanted to get him a shotgun so he can get out for some target practice and possibly do some small game/goose hunting this fall.

Since my son is only 10, I am leaning towards a 20 ga. I need a gun that is:
1. light (easy to shoulder and hold on target)
2. won't kick too badly (not sure on semi-auto or pump).
3. I would like to be able to get a gun that might come with a youth stock but can be converted to a full-size gun as he grows.

Any recommendations are appreciated.


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## upnut (Aug 31, 2004)

We went with the Remington 870 Express in 20 ga. for the same situation. Lots of accessories/stock options, good small game round, easy to upgrade. Good Luck! Scott B.


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## UNREEL (Jun 8, 2007)

If money is no object, Rem 1100 in 20 ga. Zero recoil, and it gets him accustomed to an autoloader. I know the old theory of single shots for the 1st gun is good, but face it we all end up shooting autos anyway. Besides, he will use it for many years to come, as opposed to shoving aside for something else in a couple of years.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 1wildchild (Apr 14, 2003)

I saw a youth Remington model 1187 in 20 gauge. It has a nice synthetic stock, so it would be durable. My 870 20 guage kicks pretty hard with that short barrel!


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## Tankster (Feb 25, 2010)

pump was too much kick for my 11 year old. I'm looking for a semi now.


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## caseman (Apr 22, 2004)

Tankster said:


> semi-auto was too much kick for my 11 year old. I'm looking for a semi now.


You said a semi-auto was too much kick, but did you mean a pump was too much kick?


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## franky (Apr 14, 2004)

I'm just offering advice like others, look into reloading though. I work at a gun club and guys bring there kids in all the time and say oh I'm gonna teach my kid to shoot and the fastest turnoff is recoil. I shoot 12 gauge 3/4 oz load, thats a standard 28 gauge load. The recoil on it sometimes doesn't reset the triggers on my beretta. Even if you go with a remington 870 20 gauge you can get a 20 gauge loader for around 50 bucks to a hundred, it will pay off as far as saving money and there is tons and tons of recipes out there for soft recoiling loads in 7/8 and even in a 3/4. Take it with a grain of salt, but this is coming from experience.


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## Tankster (Feb 25, 2010)

caseman said:


> You said a semi-auto was too much kick, but did you mean a pump was too much kick?


oops, correct


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## millbs (Sep 12, 2008)

I bought a Mossburg Bantam synthetic stock 20 gauge for my 11 year old last year.
THAT THING KICK LIKE A MULE!!!!!!!!!
I put a SIMS recoil pad on the stock and bought some "low recoil" loads for it, but it still kicked bad!!! Sold it as used to JAY's a month later, lesson learned I guess.
Just my opinion.


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## 8iowa (Jan 28, 2008)

Lets take a look at the standard target 20 gauge load, which is the lightest 20 gauge load available. 7/8 oz is 510 grains. At 1200 fps this puts it in the recoil class of the factory 45-70 cartridge. Couple this with a shotgun that weighs 6 lbs or less and you have a sure fire method of discouraging a 90 lb 10 year old from ever wanting to shoot again.

I shoot skeet with a 5 1/2 lb 28 gauge Franchi AL48, and after finishing four rounds I have a bruised shoulder, and this is with a 3/4 oz load at 1200 fps.

When my 10 year old grandson comes to the U.P. this summer I will let him take a few shots with my old bolt action Mossberg 410, and this with 2 1/2" 1/2oz loads. I plan to approach this very carefully even though he is big for his age at 115 lbs.


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## ajmorell (Apr 27, 2007)

I guess it depends on the individual. I started on a single 20 and never had a problem. The first gun my dad bought me was a 20 gauge 870, recoil never bothered me a bit and I believe I was 10 or 11 years old. I'm surprised at your comment about a bruised shoulder after 4 rounds with a 28 gauge. I can shoot 2 rounds (50 birds) of sporting clays shooting 12 gauge 1 1/8 oz @ 1300 and it doesn't even phase me.

That being said, I think a semi-auto 20 would be about ideal. Otherwise a 410 single or pump would suffice.


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## Cpt.Chaos (May 28, 2006)

In 2008 I purchased a CZ 720 youth semi-auto 20 gauge for my then just turned 9 y/o son. He could shoot it then with no problems, probably gonna be real good with it this year..he's almost big enough for a 12 ga. Beautiful gun, wood stock, 5 choke tubes and, if I recall correctly, a 24" barrel. All for the low price of $400...much cheaper and a heck of alot lighter than the Remington semi-auto. I love my 870's(I have 3) but the Remington semi's seem SO heavy compared to this gun. I bought this shotgun at Michi-gun in St. Clair Shores, check it out, I think you'll be impressed.


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## buck11pt24 (Mar 11, 2007)

I grew up shooting a 20 guage New England Firearm. Only a single shot, but didn't kick too hard from what I remember. I even had a little butt pad, which absorbed some of the recoil. You may have to have the stock shortened up a little, but for how cheap you can pick one up, you may want to try it out. I believe you can get a new one for around $100.


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## franky (Apr 14, 2004)

8iowa said:


> Lets take a look at the standard target 20 gauge load, which is the lightest 20 gauge load available. 7/8 oz is 510 grains. At 1200 fps this puts it in the recoil class of the factory 45-70 cartridge. Couple this with a shotgun that weighs 6 lbs or less and you have a sure fire method of discouraging a 90 lb 10 year old from ever wanting to shoot again.
> 
> I shoot skeet with a 5 1/2 lb 28 gauge Franchi AL48, and after finishing four rounds I have a bruised shoulder, and this is with a 3/4 oz load at 1200 fps.
> 
> When my 10 year old grandson comes to the U.P. this summer I will let him take a few shots with my old bolt action Mossberg 410, and this with 2 1/2" 1/2oz loads. I plan to approach this very carefully even though he is big for his age at 115 lbs.


We have the Franchi AL48 in 28 gauge at our club as a club gun, wow, its surprising how much that gun kicks. You say that the 7/8 is the lightest load available.......factory. You can reload 3/4 and if you put your shot at about 1080 comin out of the barrel, it won't kick nearly as much as per say that 28 gauge semi.

Even if you can't reload, go up to a local gun club, talk to the manager, if you live around flushing (genesee county) stop into the club I work at, ask someone up at the counter, I can guarantee you you could purchase light loads from someone up there. IMHO its the best way to go. the only way to go!


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## Tankster (Feb 25, 2010)

Cpt.Chaos said:


> In 2008 I purchased a CZ 720 youth semi-auto 20 gauge for my then just turned 9 y/o son. Beautiful gun, wood stock, 5 choke tubes and, if I recall correctly, a 24" barrel. All for the low price of $400...much cheaper and a heck of alot lighter than the Remington semi-auto.


How would the CZ work for a young lefty?


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## LumberMatt (Apr 2, 2009)

Hello, you might want to try Remington Premier STS "Low Recoil" ammo. They have it in both 20-gauge and 12-gauge. I see it listed on the Bass Pro site as "Managed Recoil" or Light Target now. But I guess it's the same thing. I used it before and there is some difference. It's also a little quieter. I used them for my pup for the first few times shooting near her. I think they were only about $8.00 a box. Maybe even try them for the first time shooting the gun.

Here is a link to Bass Pro.

http://reviews.basspro.com/2010/68087/reviews.htm

Best of luck


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## 8iowa (Jan 28, 2008)

Guys:

There's a simple law of physics at work here that cannot be denied; M1xV1=M2xV2. That 7/8oz (510 grain) load of lead is going to exit the barrel at 1200 fps. Like it or not, that momentum is going to come back on the shooter's shoulder.

There is a lot of difference in mass between a 230 lb adult and a 90 lb 10 year old kid. What seems like little recoil to the adult is not at all what the youth will experience, especially in terms of the recoil velocity.

The weight of the shotgun also factors into that M2. One of the reasons that my AL-48 seems to kick hard is because it only weighs a little over 5 lbs.

I'll recommend the 410 with 2 1/2" shells for introducing a youth to shotgun shooting, especially so if the shooter is of small frame and weighs less than 100 lbs. This is simply "playing it safe", making it sure that this will be a pleasant experience that the youth will want to repeat. With my grandson, I plan to have him shoot some stationary clay birds, and then gradually let him try to hit a few hand thrown "birds".

Many years ago I wanted a 20 gauge shotgun. My dad wisely selected the bolt action Mossberg 410 instead. I was small for my age, 12 years old, and I quickly became proficient on rabbits and quail. Eventually I graduated to the 3" 410 shells, and then to larger gauges, but this 410 still has a place in my heart. I still have this shotgun, and I can't think of a better gun to introduce my grandson to shotgun shooting.


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## ajmorell (Apr 27, 2007)

8iowa said:


> Guys:
> 
> There's a simple law of physics at work here that cannot be denied; M1xV1=M2xV2. That 7/8oz (510 grain) load of lead is going to exit the barrel at 1200 fps. Like it or not, that momentum is going to come back on the shooter's shoulder.
> 
> ...


All of this is very true, the only thing you are neglecting to mention is that they type of gun (single, pump, auto) also has a significant impact on the recoil of the gun. If it were me I would/will buy my kid a semi-auto 20 gauge that's a little on the heavy side before I bought them a 410 single or pump. I'd be willing to bet that most of the 20 gauge semi autos out there have about equivalent recoil to some of the single shot 410s that are on the light side.


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## 8iowa (Jan 28, 2008)

Andy:

The safety aspects of putting an auto-loader in the hands of a 10 year old is an improtant consideration, but beyond this particular discussion of recoil. As you know, there is no avoiding Newton's law of the conservation of momentum. There are several types of recoil "reducers", perhaps one of the best is the "in the buttstock" mercury type reducer. Some manufacturers of auto loaders claim that the action "soaks up" recoil. Actually, they spread the recoil out over a longer period of time, and perhaps their inherent friction takes away slightly from the recoil energy. However the momentum is there and must be absorbed by the shooter, who in this case is lacking in mass.


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## DXT Deer Slayer (Nov 14, 2009)

My first shotgun was an H&R single shot 20 gauge. Nice gun, and perfect for just learning the shooting sports.


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## localyahoo (May 28, 2009)

how about a gauge for each year the kid is old!


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## Toga (Nov 11, 2009)

DXT Deer Slayer said:


> My first shotgun was an H&R single shot 20 gauge. Nice gun, and perfect for just learning the shooting sports.


I too started with an H&R single 20 youth model. Kicked like a mule. A nice rubber recoil pad on the stock helped a lot. It was a perfect starter. It will be passed down to my son when he is ready in a couple years to use as his starter.


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## 3fingervic (Jan 28, 2009)

buck11pt24 said:


> I grew up shooting a 20 guage New England Firearm. Only a single shot, but didn't kick too hard from what I remember. I even had a little butt pad, which absorbed some of the recoil. You may have to have the stock shortened up a little, but for how cheap you can pick one up, you may want to try it out. I believe you can get a new one for around $100.


My first gun was a xmas gift from my grandfather. He bought me a NEF single shot 12 ga. A lot of people see a small gun, and think it will be youth friendly. That gun was probably the hardest kicking gun I've ever shot. Even as an adult I hated shooting the that gun, sorry grandpa.


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## diztortion (Sep 6, 2009)

3fingervic said:


> My first gun was a xmas gift from my grandfather. He bought me a NEF single shot 12 ga. A lot of people see a small gun, and think it will be youth friendly. That gun was probably the hardest kicking gun I've ever shot. Even as an adult I hated shooting the that gun, sorry grandpa.


I still have a NEF 12g Single shot. I hate shooting that gun. I only use it sometimes with a 3" shell because my pump is only 2 3/4. Its more or less a backup. Actually, just this past decemeber I shot a rabbit with it. I was gonna let my wife use it last year and my dad was like, "uh.. take the 20g pump" 

My dad has the same gun only in a 20g model. I remember using it one year for deer season and was about 15 or 16. After shooting a few rounds outta it I had bruises on my shoulder.


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## Flyhack (Jul 12, 2009)

Wow! pumps? autos? My Dad didn't love me. He gave me a single shot 410 when I was nine or ten that he learned on. I remember one day wanting to be a big shot and use what my uncle had... a Model 37 Ithaca 12 guage. I thought I had a concussion when I pulled the trigger.

I gladly went back to my little gun until I became proficient. When I turned 12 I received a winchester single shot 20 guage. It was a long barrel but it swung like a dream and I always followed through and my accuracy was pretty good for a kid. I made every shot count knowing I didn't have another ready to go. I had buddies emptying their mags every flush of a bird. 

I look back and see a lot of value in this path. I worked my to a pump but now I prefer an over/under. If I can't hit it in two, well I gues it deserves to live a little longer. I also don't have to worry about plugging the mag.


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## Hunter333 (Jan 19, 2000)

Whatever gun you choose, if you TEACH him ONE shot at a time it wont really matter if it is a pump, single shot, or auto.... I gave my 4 year old .22 Crickett recently and knows that you only shoot one round at a time because that is what I TAUGHT him long before I gave him the gun.


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## ajmorell (Apr 27, 2007)

8iowa said:


> The safety aspects of putting an auto-loader in the hands of a 10 year old is an improtant consideration, but beyond this particular discussion of recoil.


I agree we are getting a little off-track.



> As you know, there is no avoiding Newton's law of the conservation of momentum. There are several types of recoil "reducers", perhaps one of the best is the "in the buttstock" mercury type reducer. Some manufacturers of auto loaders claim that the action "soaks up" recoil. Actually, they spread the recoil out over a longer period of time, and perhaps their inherent friction takes away slightly from the recoil energy. However the momentum is there and must be absorbed by the shooter, who in this case is lacking in mass.


You mention conservation of momentum, what about conservation of energy? With an autoloader a lot of the energy goes into cycling the action and is dispersed through the action of the gas piston. With a fixed breech you don't get that. A lot of that momentum (force * time) is counter-acted by the recoil spring in an auto-loader (spring force, F = spring constant k * displacement x), therefore if the spring is displaced, which it has to be to cycle the action there is force acting the direction opposite the recoil. Because the sum of the forces must equal zero by the laws of physics the force from the gun exerted on the user for an autoloader MUST be less than that of a gun with a fixed breech.


That being said I agree that an autoloader probably isn't the best for a 10 year old, but your argument above is not valid per my comments above.


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## caseman (Apr 22, 2004)

millbs said:


> I bought a Mossburg Bantam synthetic stock 20 gauge for my 11 year old last year.
> THAT THING KICK LIKE A MULE!!!!!!!!!
> I put a SIMS recoil pad on the stock and bought some "low recoil" loads for it, but it still kicked bad!!! Sold it as used to JAY's a month later, lesson learned I guess.
> Just my opinion.


I was looking at that gun online last night. The adjustable stock seemed like a good feature. The more I am reading, it seems any single shot or pump will pack a big punch for a 10 year old. 

Maybe the answer is a 20 ga auto with light loads....and only providing one shell to teach him the importance of safety and getting on your target. I would hope you could buy one that is relatively light and be able to upgrade the stock as he grows....I will have to keep doing research.


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## KLR (Sep 2, 2006)

IMO - the beginners / youth shotgun should be a gas-op'ed auto 20.

The saftey issue doesn't hold water with me - you can always make any gun a single shot, based on the number of shells you load into it.

Recoil has to be taken into consideration - again, JMO but if the shooter can't handle the recoil of a gas - op 20, then they should stick with a .22 until they can. I'm all for getting the kids involved hunting as soon as they show interest, but wouldn't risk my sons becoming recoil shy or afraid of guns because dad pushed them into it.

.410's & 28's are bogus guns to give to a kid, IMO. 99% of the experienced adults can't take a .410 to a skeet range and hit 50% of the targets - why would you frustrate a beginner by giving them a gun better suited to expert? Seems like a sure way to X-Boxville...


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## caseman (Apr 22, 2004)

KLR said:


> IMO - the beginners / youth shotgun should be a gas-op'ed auto 20.
> 
> The saftey issue doesn't hold water with me - you can always make any gun a single shot, based on the number of shells you load into it.
> 
> ...


well said


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## Cpt.Chaos (May 28, 2006)

Tankster said:


> How would the CZ work for a young lefty?


My son shoots it left handed, he's not bothered too much by the shells coming out on the right.


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## Topshelf (May 24, 2005)

KLR said:


> IMO - the beginners / youth shotgun should be a gas-op'ed auto 20.
> 
> The saftey issue doesn't hold water with me - you can always make any gun a single shot, based on the number of shells you load into it.
> 
> ...


What he said. ^

I think that our memories are a little clouded, for most of us over 40. The old "When I was a kid" stories all seem a little similar. Either its "the thing kicked like a mule" or "I didnt feel a thing". 

My favorite is "I thought I had a concussion when I pulled the trigger." :yikes: Been there done that. 12ga Winchester pump with heavy field loads. Still have that gun and love it


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## TNL (Jan 6, 2005)

We put about 300 kids through Hunter's Safety with live fire each year. We typically use 20 gauge low recoil loads through a youth 870, 1100, and O/U. Without a doubt, even though we use "youth models" which usually mean a shorter LOP, the kids barely have control of the gun. Some of the smaller ones may even opt out after one shot or are too scared to even try. The O/U and pump buck like a mule - because they're so light. The 1100 is a bit better because of gas operation. Recoil absorbing pads aren't really an option because it lengthens the LOP too much.

Your best bet, and this comes from watching well over a 1000 different kids shooting is to get a .410 single at that age. Get the smallest stock you can find. Open up the choke to cylinder. Your kid will have a better time and so will you. When they are big enough in a few years, sell it to another 10 year olds dad, THEN get that 12 or 20 that fits them correctly.


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## diztortion (Sep 6, 2009)

TNL said:


> We put about 300 kids through Hunter's Safety with live fire each year. We typically use 20 gauge low recoil loads through a youth 870, 1100, and O/U. Without a doubt, even though we use "youth models" which usually mean a shorter LOP, the kids barely have control of the gun. Some of the smaller ones may even opt out after one shot or are too scared to even try. The O/U and pump buck like a mule - because they're so light. The 1100 is a bit better because of gas operation. Recoil absorbing pads aren't really an option because it lengthens the LOP too much.
> 
> Your best bet, and this comes from watching well over a 1000 different kids shooting is to get a .410 single at that age. Get the smallest stock you can find. Open up the choke to cylinder. Your kid will have a better time and so will you. When they are big enough in a few years, sell it to another 10 year olds dad, THEN get that 12 or 20 that fits them correctly.



Yeah, I'll be in the market of a .410 in about 4 years.


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## BenelliBrother (Sep 21, 2009)

I agree with all the guys leaning towards a 20 gauges in Remington model 1187's or 1100's. I know I started off with an old 2 3/4" chambered 1100 that my grandfather had just laying around. Pumps seem take a little longer reach in order to rack (hard for smaller children) plus they recoil more. My brother learned on a 20 ga Browning BPS that abused him badly. We both started out at the age of 12 duck hunting and I tell you what....it wasn't too many seasons and he was begging my father for an auto. Kids grow up fast and with the price of 1187's at roughly $600 for a 20 gauge new camo synthetic (even sold at walmart) I would just go with the auto route that will better fit them and satisify them until they get big enough to handle a 12 gauge.....just my thoughts....
p.s... I own two 20 gauge 1187's and they are great guns, one is for my girlfriend and the other is my deer gun. And go figure...now, my brother and I both have SBE II 3 1/2" for ducks/geese.


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## birddog520 (Mar 16, 2005)

was faced with the same problem last year. If your 10 year old is 90 lbs then you have a big kid. My son just turned 11 and he is average height and is only 75. When he tries to shoulder a 6.5 lb gun he has to arch his back because he would fall over forward. We solved the problem by getting a pardner single shot 28 and I modified the stock. We made it a lot trimmer, shorter and added a nice recoil pad. It weighs just a hair over 6 and does not kick to bad. He can stand up straight and mount the gun correctly which helps him with recoil. I do load 28 Gauge shells and generally shoot my 28 when he is with me. We have been to the skeet range 5 times now. He shot 25 shots from station 1 with me handing him the shells for the first 4 rounds. His last round he hit half. Yesterday he shot his first full round and scored 8 shooting all singles and 2 extra shots at station 7.
We keep it to 1 round per visit and he is really liking it. By bird season he may have a chance at a grouse over my pointing dog.
- Jeff


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

I am glad I read this thread, I think. I was just looking at a Rem 870 compact for my bigger than average 10 year old. http://www.remington.com/pages/news.../2009/firearms/model-870-express-compact.aspx

Now you guys have me thinking I may want to go the auto route for recoil management. Maybe just let him load one shell at a time till he gets more expierence.
He has been on a lot of hunts, just never was a shooter himself. He just turned 10 a couple months ago.


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## Cpt.Chaos (May 28, 2006)

ESOX said:


> I am glad I read this thread, I think. I was just looking at a Rem 870 compact for my bigger than average 10 year old. http://www.remington.com/pages/news.../2009/firearms/model-870-express-compact.aspx
> 
> Now you guys have me thinking I may want to go the auto route for recoil management. Maybe just let him load one shell at a time till he gets more expierence.
> He has been on a lot of hunts, just never was a shooter himself. He just turned 10 a couple months ago.


If you'd like, we can meet somewhere and I'll let your son try both the CZ 720 auto and the 870 youth. I have both in 20 ga.


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## flinch (Aug 10, 2003)

Except for self defense situations, I have never understood the big attraction to pump shotguns over autos. Buy the kid a compact auto like the new remington 11-87 sportsman compact which has an adustment stock to allow for growth and everyone will be happy. Yes, they require maintenance to keep them clean but you will also be teaching the kid some good habits that way. And he/she will enjoy shooting that much more with less recoil. I am still using a 20 gauge 1100 from 1970. Easily 10,000 rounds and probably more and still going strong. Never a single problem.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

Kid decided he really, really likes my Savage 24 .22LR/ 3" 20ga. Only problem is that little gun is my favorite small game gun. I guess it's time to hand it down and hunt with something else. 

Or maybe go find him his own combo gun. 

Or give him mine and find myself a new combo gun.......:evilsmile


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