# harder up north?



## Linda G. (Mar 28, 2002)

Jimbos-Our feeding program covers all of Emmet County, and we have a number of people helping us out in that area, which is why you have so many birds...ESPECIALLY in that area, you wouldn't have any at all if we didn't feed...if you have birds on your property next December or know of birds in the area that need help, or people that are trying to feed the birds on their own that can't afford to, please get in touch with me...that's what we're for...Linda

Freepop-is your tag for Area J?


----------



## Guest (May 2, 2002)

Well Linda, their doing a good job then. 

The numbers around are truly amazing.


----------



## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

jimbos43

Check your PM box


----------



## BOSSTOM (Oct 23, 2001)

I was/am hesitant about getting involved in the discussion about the NWTF vs the MWTHA, but I can't resist. The bottom line is that MI Sportspeople (in order to be politically correct) would not have the current turkey population/hunting opportunities if it weren't for the efforts of the NWTF. PERIOD!!! Proof of this comment lies in the millions (and I'm not exaggerating) of dollars that have been generated/spent by the NWTF in MI. Our chapter alone has NETTED over $800,000. However, I agree that the presence of the MWTHA has caused some re-evaluation of this precious resource.

The main snafu is that turkeys were relocated into areas outside of their traditional range (read hear Area K). Therein lies the dilemma. Do we just turn our backs on these birds or continue to supplement using winter feeding programs? Even though I hunted Area K, I was against supplemental feeding programs and am still somewhat hesitant. With a limited income, it has been shown that more value can be obtained by investing in long-term habitat improvement projects although the impact may not be immediate. 

Even though I am very actively involved, I still do not agree entirely with every stance the NWTF takes. The main point to remember is the overall goal and subsequent accomplishments of the NWTF, not only in MI but also other states for those of you willing to think outside of the box. It is unfortunate that lines like this are drawn without considering the impact the division has on the resource.

This said, I would like to clarify a few points that have appeared in preceding rebuttals:

Linda: The NWTF does not endorse a supplemental feeding program in southern MI. What we may have is a few over zealous members thinking that turkeys can't survive without it. In addition, something both Linda G and Hemingway haven't discussed is that the proceeds from the NWTF State Banquet held annually in Clare go into the NWTF's winter feeding program. 

Linda: There is no mandate that habitat supplies must be bought from project HELP. As with any other purchase, we shop around for the best price. In addition, your 4% figure is also askew. Of the $48K our banquet netted in 2001, close to $15K was spent on habitat projects in various areas in the state. As a matter of fact we are aware that the birds need more assistance in Northern MI and strongly encourage that our money be spent accordingly. The significance of this statement is enormous especially if you consider where the money comes from, other MI Sportspeople who may or may not hunt in Northern MI.


----------



## Sarge (Apr 25, 2000)

The rank and file hunter does not care whether Hemingway, Linda Gl or anyone else is right about the Turkeys' origin. They also don't really care why they may or may not be easier to hunt in one place or the other. I won't speak any more for the rank and file, they have probably long since stopped reading this turf war.

I will speak just a little for myself. I am grateful that the Turkey population has indeed been replenished since its early demise. I am also grateful for organizations that provide expertise and labor to make these kinds of programs happen and that continue to do so. I've been on the fence about joining one organization or another, wondering where all the money goes, whether it goes to the resource or to administration. I find it an distateful fact that every organization needs to be administered. Just the publications and other miscelaneous trappings absorb great quantities of money. Obviously, there needs to be funding for those things and paychecks for anyone doing the tasks on a full time basis. Any basis actually that prevents them from being full time something else. The issue for me then boils down to whethere they have more administrators than they need, rather than how much they get paid. 

So the bottom line is this, by waging this war have you won me, or lost me? Which of your comments did the trick?

You see, by argueing between yourselves on this very public forum what you've really done is drive my money back into my wallet. Easily done because I was skeptical to begin with. 

If, on the other hand you were trying to find ways to work together, I may be persuaded to help fund both activiteis because I believe in both. They have different agendas and both agendas are needed. 

Cya.


----------



## Hemingway (Mar 21, 2002)

Okay, who was it that called me Fred Trost??????
Thems fightin' words. Just kidding. I am not Fred Trost. I'd rather be Don King than Fred Trost. Yuck. Yuck. Yucky.

And for Sarge, keep your money. It's not about that anyway. It's about dedication and determination. Neither the NWTF nor the MWTHA need guys who are skeptical about shelling out a few bucks to support the things we love to do most. We're all much better off without that type in our ranks.


----------



## Sarge (Apr 25, 2000)

Thanks Hemingway I had pretty much made up my mind about your posts and now you've helped me finsih up my decision.

While I'm here though I would like to say just one more thing. 

All of the zealots in the world who only see or care about their own side of an argument need to realize that they are in the minority. That's not to say that all people shouldn't be passionate about what they do, its just to say that most arent. They do it for fun not for a special purpose. 

Now all those (not needed) people are looking on to see whats up, because since its fun, they really don't want to lose it and really do want to know the mechanics of it all. If while they are looking on, two of the mechanics get into a brawl over whether it should have a 2 barrel or 4 barrel carb, the onlookers will just wander away, because it stopped being fun, or they will transfer their interest to the fight and not the issue. My point was, and stil is, that I don't get how the "fight" can be of any value to the issue or to the onlookers. It only benefits the fighters and the only benefit there, is ego. Which by the way never saved or transplanted a Turkey.

BTW many of the things I do for fun I have become passionate about, because I saw the issue and not the fight. 

The part about being skeptical was not about whether we should support any organizations. What I've grown tired of (and stopped doing) is joining an organization, paying the dues to find them sending literally tons of mail out asking for more funds. Those mailers may be done in bulk to save a little money, but they are still majorly expensive. I find that a lack of good financial mangagement. For that reason, nowdays before I join somthing I watch how they user their money. If I don't think they use it well, they wont get any of mine. North American Hunting (fishing) clubs are an example of what I mean. Tons of mail and no benefit for your fee.

You are absolutely right about not needind my money too. That's because there are a lot of people out there who join everything just so they can wear the patch, I'm sure they provide all you need.

If any of you are one of those, I hope I didn't hurt your feelings I just mean lots of folks can afford to join lots of things, for whatever their own reason is and I can olny afford to give money to those who I can see use it wisely.

All of this was for the benefit of the others who read my posts regularly. I'm not concerned whether your organizations need me or not.


----------



## FREEPOP (Apr 11, 2002)

Sarge, just curiousl, do you belong to the NRA??


----------



## BOSSTOM (Oct 23, 2001)

Sarge

Try to remember that organizations are comprised of individuals and some do not always operate within the premise of the organization. I personally would like to strongly invite you to become a member of the flock and join the NWTF. Our track record among the various conservation groups is one of the best, and the NWTF does not spend hunter's monies on mailings asking for more donations. I have sent you a PM outlining the steps you need to take. It's simple and painless. The annual membership dues are $25 and the membership package includes 6 issues of Turkey Call magazine, 4 issues of The Caller, the annual state newsletter, any newsletters/mailings from your local chapter, a membership decal and a membership card. For others out there, I can be contacted using a PM.

Thanks


----------



## Stalker (May 15, 2000)

Thanks BOSSTOM for weighing in and giving some good info without getting personal. I understand what Sarge was trying to say. A good debate can be very informative. However personal sparring is distastful and leaves a person wondering about the true objectives of those participating. 

I totally agree with EdB's post. ( about 13 back) Let it never be said that our personal issues or agendas, allow those that are true enemies of sportspeople an advantage in any way. 

Hemmingway-You have a real knack for baiting people into a debat. Maybe it is intentional, maybe it is just your form of writing. I do hope you are using your abilities to cause chaos in the anti's ranks. 

By the way I wouldn't be so quick to write off Sarge as unneeded. He is a pretty straight down the middle guy and if you offended him you can be sure there were many more that felt the same. Sarge was just kind enough to let you know. 

Enough said.


----------



## Hemingway (Mar 21, 2002)

I guess I should clarify what I meant about not needing guys like Sarge.

What's not needed today are the guys who simply scoff at everything. The NWTF is the only organization I feel a passion for because it's the only one I've personally see make a major impact. Other groups have fallen off their pace simply because of people who don't want to invest anything more than money. We don't need money. We need action and dedication. That's what I meant when I wrote that we don't need skeptics. There simply isn't room for them and they tend to be more trouble than they're worth. It seems to me that some people simply base their opinions on outside observations rather than getting their nose in the dirt and taking a sniff. Take Linda G. as an example. We may not see eye to eye on issues but I have to respect the hell out of her for putting forth the effort, dedication and passion that's needed to try and find the right and wrong way to do things. That's what we need. Not skepticism.

I don't try to start arguments but I do believe that debates are needed. Why? Because it makes us think. And that's always a good thing. Linda G. has certainly made me think and I hope I have done the same for her and others here. I'm not trying to be a jerk or mean or anything. I care about the outdoors. It's my life and where I make my living. I trust many others here do the same. But I tend not to pull punches when it comes to folks who want nothing more than to sit on the outside and look in while casting stones.


----------



## Stalker (May 15, 2000)

Explanation understood Hemmingway. I never questioned your passion, loyalty or intentions to better our hunting rights and privileges. I just know I have also fallen into the trap of being so passionate for a cause that I offended and alienated those that I needed. As the old saying goes "If you are leading and no one is following, You are just taking a walk". 

By the way I also believe in the NWTF and appreciate all they have done to restore such a terrific game bird to our area.


----------



## Lil' Tanker (Jan 9, 2002)

Definately harder up North more woods and more trees for them to roost in!


----------

