# How do you drop a deer in its tracks?



## luv2havemoartime (Mar 11, 2005)

High shoulder shot heh? I'll have to try that. I remember a buck I shot with a 30.06 that ran about 50-75 yards. Upon field dressing we noticed that the heart was "butterflied" almost in 2 complete pieces...unbelievable he was able to run.


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## LSCflatsman (Oct 31, 2007)

I am a firm believer of ultra high speed... with the right bullet design if you want consistent quick drops. I've shot lots of deer with a 7mm rem. mag and only two of them ever took a step after being hit. Both of those were shot with ammo that desintegrated on impact. Both myself and a friend shooting the same cal. were mislead into buying this new "better" ammo by the owner of a major gun shop in St. Clair Shores (not naming names). Big Mistake! I did recover both deer, but one ran 150yds and the other about 200. We went back to our tried and true load of 175gr. Pointed Soft Point and haven't "tracked" a deer since. The supersonic speed creates an incredible hydro-shock wave inside the deers vital area that pretty much turns all soft tissue in the shock cone into liquid including the nervous system. The deer either goes down like a sack of potatoes or maybe stumbles a couple of yards, but you don't have to worry about him going by the next guy a couple hundred yards down the way. Of course, this is only an option if you hunt in the rifle zone... and this is all just my opinion and that of most of the guys in my camp... we all shoot high speed and almost always load 'em up at the point of impact.


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## bersh (Dec 9, 2003)

As others have mentioned, in addition to head, neck, or spine shots, the high shoulder shot will drop them. If you think about the amount of force that is delivered at impact, there is a lot of hydrostatic shock force that is also delivered (think about those slow motion videos you see of a bullet hitting ballistics gel how the entire block expands at impact). The high shoulder shot not only causes tissue damage in the immediate path of the bullet, but also the shock of the shot is able to extend upwards into the spine. Bang/flop.

I've shot deer in the heart and had them run over 100 yards using both a rifle and a muzzleloader. In one case, when I cut him open the heart literally dropped out of the cavity when I flipped him over as I took out the top of the heart. That deer ran about 80 yards in a loop and was going balls-out when he died on his feet and crashed to the ground and slid about 10 yards (snow).

With a rifle, at 10-25 yards, I aim for the boiler room, 25-100 (depending on conditions, position of the deer, moving or not, etc) I'll consider a neck shot, and anything greater than 100 yards I'm back to a boiler room shot. If I'm comfortable, I'll aim a little higher to drop them, otherwise it is a middle of the body (up and down) behind the shoulder shot to be safe.


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## Swamp Monster (Jan 11, 2002)

buckhead said:


> would a smaller calliber like a 243 have the same effect on the shoulder shot?? the last 3 bucks i have shot behind the shoulder have ran with little/no blood trail.. luckily i have seen them go down..


Yes, if you are using a decent bullet. Use one like the Nosler Partition etc and you'll take care of business assuming the range is acceptable. 

I shoot em high in the shoulder with everything except a bow. That area is where the spine and the shoulders are all jointed.......it's a crushing blow that almost always imobilizes a deer instantaniously....and the blow still destroys vital tissue. With good bullets, meat damage is usually minimal. Tracking jobs are non existant. 


The last doe I shot with a rifle was quartering away pretty severely with her head and neck stretched straight out. The 150 gr from the .308 entered high just behind the shoulder right where I wanted and exited out just under the does ear on the opposite side. Needless to say she dropped in an instant.


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## michigandeerslayer (Oct 24, 2004)

The reason I ask Is I have a bunch of 300 grain powebelts Hollow point copper and I want to use them but I have heard they dont give good blood trails, so I was looking to drop them where they stand..I will be using a shooting stick so Im more steady...Maybe a neck shot is the ticket


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## dtg (Jun 5, 2003)

So, where would you hit a deer with a 12ga slug? I imagine that the damage from that would surely ruin some meat.

I've never taken a deer during gun season and always thought that it should be shot in the heart/lung area and that a 12ga slug should do plenty of damage to keep the deer from going too far. I don't want to lose a bunch of meat, but I don't want the deer to end up in someone elses freezer either(I hunt state land)Am I wrong in assuming that the 12ga would be pretty devastating on the vitals? Remington buckhammers or Lightfield EXP's, I haven't made my mind up yet. BH's make a decent hole in the target, Lightfields shot darn near the same hole at 50yrds(at least through a scope it looked like i completley missed the target, until closer inspection showed that it was darn near perfect)


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## Cedar Swamp (Oct 8, 2004)

The best way I have found, shoot them in the base of the neck. But, I will only try this on a standing shot, other than that, thru the front shoulders. To far forward and you catch the brisket and they will run for days.


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## bersh (Dec 9, 2003)

michigandeerslayer said:


> The reason I ask Is I have a bunch of 300 grain powebelts Hollow point copper and I want to use them but I have heard they dont give good blood trails, so I was looking to drop them where they stand..I will be using a shooting stick so Im more steady...Maybe a neck shot is the ticket


Neck shots can be risky, and unless you're shooting 1" groups at 100 yards, I wouldn't even consider it with a muzzleloader. High shoulder gives you a LOT larger target that is less likely to move enough to make a difference in the split second before you take the shot. I once took a neck shot at a doe at about 90 yards, and she turned right as I squeezed the shot off. She still dropped, but rather than just dropping and it being over instantly, she flopped around for a bit and bled out. I just barely clipped her, and it was just enough to paralyze her, but not kill her. This was with a .270 that I shoot sub 1" groups with all day long. In hindsight, I should have waited a second and just put it through the boiler room.


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## andy capp (Aug 14, 2002)

With a 12 guage slug, I shoot high shoulder/base of the neck.


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## michbowhunter819 (Oct 15, 2007)

my experinece with powerbelts is that they leave a great blood trail. last years doe went about 35 yards and there was a blood trail 4 ft wide!!


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## Skibum (Oct 3, 2000)

luv2havemoartime said:


> High shoulder shot heh? I'll have to try that. I remember a buck I shot with a 30.06 that ran about 50-75 yards. Upon field dressing we noticed that the heart was "butterflied" almost in 2 complete pieces...unbelievable he was able to run.



Heart shot deer often take off at warp speed. That is because they get a huge surge of adrenaline when hit.

Again, the only way to guarantee a deer is going to drop is to take out the CNS or their means of locomotion. Neck shot will do it. Spine shot will do it. High shoulder shot will do it. Brain shot will do it but I won't shoot a deer in the head. Anything else is a coin flip for dropping them. One thing is true. Jack O'Conner had it right 50 years ago when he said the surest shot for big game is a properly expanding bullet through the heart/lung region. They may not always go down on the spot but they won't go far.


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## Skibum (Oct 3, 2000)

dtg said:


> So, where would you hit a deer with a 12ga slug? I imagine that the damage from that would surely ruin some meat.
> 
> I've never taken a deer during gun season and always thought that it should be shot in the heart/lung area and that a 12ga slug should do plenty of damage to keep the deer from going too far. I don't want to lose a bunch of meat, but I don't want the deer to end up in someone elses freezer either(I hunt state land)Am I wrong in assuming that the 12ga would be pretty devastating on the vitals? Remington buckhammers or Lightfield EXP's, I haven't made my mind up yet. BH's make a decent hole in the target, Lightfields shot darn near the same hole at 50yrds(at least through a scope it looked like i completley missed the target, until closer inspection showed that it was darn near perfect)



Put a slug through the heart/lungs and they won't go far.


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## FISH (Jul 14, 2002)

high in front of the shoulder, where the spine and shoulder meets. it's like turnin of a light switch. i've never had a deer twitch after that shot


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## Doctor (Jun 21, 2002)

I shoot heart and lungs for two major reasons. 1. I prefer to lose as little meat as possible and 2. If I were to jolt or pull the shot off a couple inches in any direction most likely the shot will still impact major organs with the bullet itself or fragmented rib bones. The other fine tuned shots are fine in my book but I consider the larger area in case anything goes wrong. There is sort of a built in back-up as opposed to possibly missing, crippling, or losing a deer to the yotes. Pretty sure most people can hit the neck / high shoulder with a rifle and scope but again it is those unforseen circumstances I look out for.


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## Reel_Screamer86 (Mar 22, 2007)

*To answer your question i too shoot a 30-06 but i havent had a deer run off in years i use the heaviest bullet i can find which is a 220 grain silver tip made by Winchester.......*


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## MERGANZER (Aug 24, 2006)

Here you go, written by one of michigans finest!

http://www.iosconews.com/articles/2004/11/10/news/outdoors/news01.txt


Ganzer


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## Munsterlndr (Oct 16, 2004)

michigandeerslayer said:


> The reason I ask Is I have a bunch of 300 grain powebelts Hollow point copper and I want to use them but I have heard they dont give good blood trails, so I was looking to drop them where they stand..I will be using a shooting stick so Im more steady...Maybe a neck shot is the ticket


There have been numerous threads on Powerbelts and the overwhelming concensus is that they are lousy bullets. I've used them and while I've recovered the deer there was almost no blood trail.

I also would not take a neck shot with a muzzleloader. I've killed deer with neck shots (don't center on the neck, aim about a third of the way down from the top) with rifles many times but they shoot MOA and I know exactly where the bullet is going to hit.

I definitely would not take a high shoulder shot with powerbelts. Best advice is dump the powerbelts and get Hornady sst's. Then you can take either a high or behind the shoulder shot and won't have any problem finding the deer. I suggest you look at some of the powerbelt threads before deciding to use them.


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## dtg (Jun 5, 2003)

Can anyone provide a pic of exactly where this D(death)-spot is. Or use an existing pic and place a dot on the sweet spot. Now I'm curious. I've always wanted to know about those TV show shots where the buck, just freezes up and tips over, but was afraid to ask(showing my inexperience) Of course they are all with highpower rifles and not with slug guns.


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## ishootdeer (Oct 27, 2001)

50 caliber muzzleloader with a 15 yard shot on a nice spike with 9 inch tines. Shot right behind the shoulder. Blew the heart in half and both lungs were reduced to mush. The thing still managed to run 75 yards til it expired. Although, there was NO problem following that blood trail!


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## GreenMachine (Oct 24, 2006)

I took my neck shot with a 12ga. Lightfield Hybred EXP's through a rifled barrel treated me well


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## xdetroitx (Oct 31, 2007)

dtg said:


> But then you lose a lot of meat, don't you?


It beats losing the deer altogether.

Or, you can just show them a print out of our national debt! Even better, you could show them a nude photo of Granholm. Either one make anyone drop dead in their tracks.:yikes:


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## MERGANZER (Aug 24, 2006)

High in shoulder is the brachial plexus which Eddy refers to. CBM had a great articel in it about this topic from Eddy with illustrations. Eddy killed tons of trophy size deer in his lifetime and this was the shot he swore by. I use it when possible and love it they rarely go 10 yds. and the shoulder meat is meat worth sacrificing I would rather keep the heart than that meat.

Ganzer


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## Sib (Jan 8, 2003)

I agree with the shoulder shot for a quick drop. But as said, it does waste some meat in both front quarters, if the angle is right you only mess up one shoulder, but practical experience has shown me there's a pretty good chance both front shoulder will be damaged. The meat damage is the downside, the high percentage shot is the upside.

For a better shot that doesn't damage meat I like the 2-3 inches behind the shoulder crease, gets the vitals and misses the meat most of the time. The downside of this shot is the likelihood of a _death sprint_ that ranges from 35-70 yards. This shot is my preferred shot, because an instant drop isn't all that important to me. If I was on a property line with questionable neighbors, or on public land with high hunter density I would have more need for the drop shot. 

Bow hunting helps most hunters when it comes to shot placement, imo. A bow hunter has to consider taking the animal in the absence of massive shock energy you get with firearms, you learn to thread the needle and place shots into your target instead of trying to go through things like the shoulder blade.


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## Gone Fishing (Jul 31, 2001)

dtg said:


> Can anyone provide a pic of exactly where this D(death)-spot is.


I'm not much of a hunter but I show my son this diagram each year before we hit the woods.


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## dtg (Jun 5, 2003)

Thanks!!!!


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## wally-eye (Oct 27, 2004)

Thats why I like the high shoulder shot instead of the neck shot "unless" the deer is within 50 yards or so, the diagram shows this well, miss the spine in the neck and deer is gone for miles unless you hit the artery....


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## part timer (Sep 30, 2003)

I read an interesting article a few years back about what causes some lung/heart deer to drop while others run a short distance. A study was done at a large scale hunting ranch in Texas where they regularly culled deer. The bottom line was that some percentage of deer that are shot in the heart/lungs have a nearly immediate aneurysm. When that occurs the deer drops, when the deer doesn't have an aneurysm the deer runs - usually not too far.

I always try to shoot deer with a heart/lung shot. I don't mind a short tracking job if necessary.


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## doublelunger35 (Dec 28, 2006)

IMO 

the best quick death shot is in the neck at the spot where it meets the shoulder 

second would be the biaxelplexes (spelling) top of the sholder below the spine big group of nerves the deer will fold there legs up when shot there.

third and biggest area to aim at is the boiler room (heart lung) 

forth would be spine on the back but ruins back straps


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## TrekJeff (Sep 7, 2007)

My two sit down deer were one from a 44, second from a 30-06

The 44 was the first year hunting and the second deer in two days. It was bedded down and right when I was going to head in for lunch, it stretched her neck up. She was waking up. Stood up facing right at me, I put the cross hairs square on her wind pipe, and let er fly. She sat right back down and folded over.

The 30-06 was a beauty. Nice 6pt about 60 yards out tightly quartering towards me. I sat him down with a shot placed just inside it's front shoulder. Bullet went through it's CNS lines, the hart, lung and exited right in front of the diaphragm. Basically making a bowl of tomato soup out of the boiler room.

All the rest have been broadside boiler room shots that dropped less than 30 yards. My opinion is that it doesn't have to be a drop dead shot, they sure are nice, put a well placed hart/lung will put meat in the freezer. Could I consistently drop em with a high neck shot in the medulla oblongata? Yeah, but only with match rounds, perfect conditions and soft points are so much cheaper...hahaha

Oh and as far as the power belt bullets, or any bullet for that matter, if you aren't confident in them, go to something you are confident with. There's nothing worse then at the time of trigger pull thinking, "Will this work?"


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## fasthunter (Sep 15, 2006)

Every deer I've killed with a gun was in the heart lung area and never hit the shoulder. The furthest I've ever had one run was 20 yards. I don't damage much meat either.


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## oldrank (Dec 5, 2006)

high shoulder drops em everytime.....neck shots are good but you have a small margin of error....


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## Monsterbuck (Jun 18, 2003)

Here's an article on dropping a deer in it's tracks.... I had just read it this weekend. 

Outdoors with Oz
by Rick Asmus

Rifle Season and the Brachial Plexus

Years ago I read an article by avid whitetail hunter and outdoor writer, Jack Eddy. Jack had taken over 15 bucks that made the Michigan Hunting Record Book. He had a wealth of deer-hunting knowledge and though he has now passed on to hunting grounds elsewhere, his thoughts live on.
The article I'm referring to had a hand-drawn picture of a whitetail buck and on this drawing, as I remember it, was a bullseye roughly the size of a softball at the top of and covering the buck's front shoulder. That's when I learned about the brachial-plexus and what an advantage it could give a rifle deer hunter.

Years ago, when I started deer hunting, I had learned from the grizzled veterans of our deer camp that the best spot to place a bullet was in the boiler-room. The boiler-room carries the fuzzy definition for the heart, liver and lung area of a deer. When it is hit the deer will die, but often not before traveling some distance and requiring some tracking.




Well, like Woody Hayes used to say when throwing the football, "Three things can happen and two of them aren't good." Of course, he was referring to an incomplete pass and interception as compared to a pass completion.

During our Michigan rifle season because of the competition the same statement can be made. I refer to fatally hitting an animal and losing it to tracking or having the wounded animal cross the line of fire for another hunter and possibly having a discussion over who the animal belongs to.

Anyway, the brachial-plexus, I learned that day many years ago, is a bundle of nerves that is located in that area at the top of the front shoulder of a deer that was covered by the bullseye. What I learned was that a shot placed there would immediately drop and kill the animal.

Hmmm. It went against what I had been taught, but I trusted Jack and decided to give it a try. That was back in the early 90's. Since then every deer I have shot, with one exception, has gone down in it's tracks and I mean to tell you without taking one step. And that includes several bucks that had estimated live weights of 300 pounds that I took in Canada.

The exception was a buck that I had hit back of the brachial-plexus by an inch or so. He kept going due to my poor shot, but was soon recovered after a tracking job of 100 yards. And that's the beauty of this shot placement.

If you are high, you get spine or front of the lungs, if you are back a little you're right in the boiler-room and if you're low it's a heart shot.

All deadly shots but none as clean and humane as placing your bullet in the brachial-plexus.

Again this shot is for rifle hunting where there is enough power to penetrate this bone and muscle mass. Archers need to keep their aim point on the boiler room where they can get the best penetration.

The exception was a buck that I had hit back of the brachial-plexus by an inch or so. He kept going due to my poor shot, but was soon recovered after a tracking job of 100 yards. And that's the beauty of this shot placement.

If you are high, you get spine or front of the lungs, if you are back a little you're right in the boiler-room and if you're low it's a heart shot.

All deadly shots but none as clean and humane as placing your bullet in the brachial-plexus.

Again this shot is for rifle hunting where there is enough power to penetrate this bone and muscle mass. Archers need to keep their aim point on the boiler room where they can get the best penetration.


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

dtg said:


> So, where would you hit a deer with a 12ga slug? I imagine that the damage from that would surely ruin some meat.
> 
> I've never taken a deer during gun season and always thought that it should be shot in the heart/lung area and that a 12ga slug should do plenty of damage to keep the deer from going too far. I don't want to lose a bunch of meat, but I don't want the deer to end up in someone elses freezer either(I hunt state land)Am I wrong in assuming that the 12ga would be pretty devastating on the vitals? Remington buckhammers or Lightfield EXP's, I haven't made my mind up yet. BH's make a decent hole in the target, Lightfields shot darn near the same hole at 50yrds(at least through a scope it looked like i completley missed the target, until closer inspection showed that it was darn near perfect)


As Andy Capp said,,, "base of the neck". The thing is,, most people don't sight in there slug guns and don't realize that most will shoot a little high,, therefore risking the chance of that slug going through "no man's land",, you know that area above the vitals and below the spine. I lost a deer with that hit, one time. Me personally,,, I always dump 'em in the base of the neck,, most of the time they don't even twitch,, no death kick or anything. I've actuall had two bucks that broke one of their own front legs from their own weight,,, literally dead on their feet. I don't shoot slugs either,,,, buckshot only and I've NEVER lost a deer shot with buckshot. To be honest,,, last year was the first year,, I've even had to track one,, that I shot with buckshot.


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## glockman55 (Mar 9, 2006)

That's where I try to shoot, between shoulder and neck..I guess you could call it high shoulder. It doesn't mess up much meat at all, not like hitting low shoulder and ruining both front quarters..


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## wally-eye (Oct 27, 2004)

Dead center at 70 mph with a Dodge Dakota usually slows them to a crawl..:rant::rant::rant::rant:


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## Shop Rat (Apr 8, 2006)

buckhead said:


> would a smaller calliber like a 243 have the same effect on the shoulder shot?? the last 3 bucks i have shot behind the shoulder have ran with little/no blood trail.. luckily i have seen them go down..


Yes. A high shoulder shot directly in line with the leg will do it. This cuts the nerve that controlls the lungs and heart. (Vagus nerve?) It is like taking out both lungs and the heart at the same time.

A shot straight through the shoulder mid way up will break both shoulders (of course) take out the front portions of both lungs and might damage the heart. They will not go anywhere. 

I started shooting this way when I hunted close to a river. When I was starting out hunting deer, I was taught to shoot for the heart. They run far and fast with a heart shot. (sometimes) Then I shot for both lungs, but the shoulder is a little better, for me.


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

In my neck of the woods, the heart - lung area has always been toted as the best bet for a clean kill. 
The only meat that will be runied is a little in the ribs. No biggy. He'll run a little ways, but you will recover that deer.
Largest area on a deer that is fatal, with the room or a little bit of error on shot placement and still take out his vitals.

Neckshots will drop a deer cold if it's well placed. I've had 2 bad experiences with neck shots and personally won't attempt that shot again. There are no vitals from the halfway mark and up on a deers neck. Just meat.
Hitt'em below that mark and he's dead. High..... and he'll run forever and hopefully heal..........

Spine shots are crazy in my opinion. There's no identifying mark to aim at. The chance for a wounding shot is way to great to risk it.

Head shots are for idiots. Greenhorn newbies ( or veteran hunters that are still brainless ) out to impress their friends at the expense of the very probable maiming of the animal. There's an article in Field and Stream, Feb. 07 that addresses these hotdog shots entitled " Moron's Among Us ".

Good Read.

Anybody in my camp that ever pulled that shot would have my boot so far up his ass he could shine his teeth with my bootlaces.

Here's my thing. 

During gun season she's a free for all. The deer are all of a sudden _bombarded_ with human scent and intrusion. Not to mention _shot at _every time they move, which would make anybody a basket case.

Take the sure shot. Heart and lung area. 
These deer are on *FULL ALERT*. 
The _slightest_ thing will make them jump, duck, run, sprint and stop etc.........

The margin for error is multiplied a _1000 fold_ when shooting at a high strung, extremely alert animal. Yes, they may run a bit, but that's a helluvalot better than having to track forever, or worse yet, lose him..... to only die a slow painful death in a blowdown somewhere.

These are my opinions based on 32 years in the deer woods. 

My position takes into considersation the state of mind of the _animal_ as well as the _hunter_ at the point of pulling the trigger and I still think that with all things considered, the animals being on high alert, and the hunters heart beating a mile a minute, that the best shot is the one with the highest probability of killing the animal clean and quick.


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## Skibum (Oct 3, 2000)

35 years for me TH and I can't find any fault with what you say.


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## Rustyaxecamp (Mar 1, 2005)

Same here.

I was told when I first started, by several relatives that hung more bucks on the pole than I likely ever will, that if you "put one in the boiler room, they ain't going far"

I've been tagging them since '91 and never found fault in that advice.


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## jc502 (Oct 8, 2002)

Ditto to Monsterbuck's post, terrific info. 

I read an article 10-12 years ago about the firearm brachial-plexus shot, might be the same one mentioned. If you look at the skeleton, muscle, internal organ and nerve anatomy of deer, it makes total and complete sense. That bundle of nerves (BP) drops lower into the deers body (between the shoulder joints) than one would assume from following their spine. It is deceiving to the eye, as the neck vertebrae/nerves drop into the shoulders a bit and then hitch back up to follow the spine. The shoulder shot does 2 things, first, through hydrostatic shock, it disrupts the central nervous system by impacting at or near the brachial-plexus bundle. Second, it takes out the top of both lungs. The animal drops from being "knocked-out" and dies from the wound to the vitals within seconds before it can recover. I shared this info with several hunters I know, and to a man not one of them has had a deer move after taking this shot.


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## bilili_3 (Feb 21, 2001)

In the 2003 Nov. - Dec. issue of *Commemorative Bucks of Michigan,* there was an article titled; _Go For The Brachail Plexis_ by Jack Eddy. The article had a sketch of a deer with a shot-circle in the center of the shoulder about four inches below the spine. They called the spot "the drop dead" shot because it causes the deer to pulls all four feet under it's body and drops in a heap. The author says you can always tell when someone uses this rifle shot on a TV show because that is what the deer does. Even at a run the deer will tumble and role to it's death. Apparently the spot is where there is a large network of nerves and veins. My first deer I shot was over a bait pile. I was in a hunting shack and had a lot of time to aim. I had the article tacked by the window and shot the deer exactly where it stated and the deer drew all four legs up and dropped in a heap in the bait pile dead with the carrot still in it's mouth. I was so impressed that when I lost the magazine in a move...I contacted the editor and paid for TWO copies!


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## andy capp (Aug 14, 2002)

William H Bonney said:


> As Andy Capp said,,, "base of the neck". The thing is,, most people don't sight in there slug guns and don't realize that most will shoot a little high,, therefore risking the chance of that slug going through "no man's land",, you know that area above the vitals and below the spine. I lost a deer with that hit, one time. Me personally,,, I always dump 'em in the base of the neck,, most of the time they don't even twitch,, no death kick or anything. I've actuall had two bucks that broke one of their own front legs from their own weight,,, literally dead on their feet. I don't shoot slugs either,,,, buckshot only and I've NEVER lost a deer shot with buckshot. To be honest,,, last year was the first year,, I've even had to track one,, that I shot with buckshot.


After reading post following yours I should edit. 

If the deer has no idea I am even there I will shoot for the base of the neck/high shoulder. It flops them right over. If a deer is a little weary due to me knocking a gun on the side of the blind I will usually just pop one off in the boiler room. If that happens, I have never had one get out of sight of me before falling over.

I go every year to the range. I shoot Federal premium copper sabots, the barnes expanders. They run about $20 for 5. I will shoot $50-$60 worth of slugs even though the gun has never been off since I sighted it in. The fact is if you want to be accurate you need to find the absolute BEST fireing slug out of your gun, and you need to shoot it. The slug I have chose is the slug for me. I have tried them all. I shoot a mossberg 500, with a cantilever rifled slug barrel with a standard 3x weaver scope. The slug is deadly accurate out of my gun. My gun is zero'd in at 75 yards. I shot my doe I shot at 30feet, high shoulder, did a backflip and died in the air. My buck I shot at 127 paces. base of the neck and fell right over, I lost about an inch off the back straps.

The key is find the best slug, and Practice!. You will find it, and be able to put the slug anywhere you want.


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## jc502 (Oct 8, 2002)

[/IMG]

Here is a pic of the deer skeleton, you can see how the vertebrae dip lower than one would think. The spinal cord is in the vertabrae, which you can see passes directly behind the shoulder blade. The top of the lungs are behind the blade also. a shot right on that shoulder hits everything needed to drop a deer where it stands!


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## TrekJeff (Sep 7, 2007)

Great post!


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## jc502 (Oct 8, 2002)

I love how threads are launching points for things not originally asked by the poster!

the question was ......"How do you drop a deer in it's tracks?"

The only way to do it safely, consistently, with certain death, is the shoulder shot. 

Nothing wrong with the heart/lung shot, but it doesn't guarantee "dropping it in it's tracks"!


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

jc502 said:


> I love how threads are launching points for things not originally asked by the poster!
> 
> the question was ......"How do you drop a deer in it's tracks?"
> 
> ...



Either does a shoulder shot. I can't count how many deer I've seen ( and killed ) running with a busted shoulder with the leg flopping cause it didn't bust thru to the vitals.


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## William H Bonney (Jan 14, 2003)

andy capp said:


> After reading post following yours I should edit.
> 
> If the deer has no idea I am even there I will shoot for the base of the neck/high shoulder. It flops them right over. If a deer is a little weary due to me knocking a gun on the side of the blind I will usually just pop one off in the boiler room. If that happens, I have never had one get out of sight of me before falling over.
> 
> ...


See,,, that's where I screwed up the year I lost that deer. I never woulda figured it would shoot high at 30 yards and I never sighted in my gun. I know,, I know,, my own fault. I don't even load slugs now,, just buckshot,, but my furthest shot is around 20 yards,,, and I'm pretty accurate at that distance:lol:. With that said,,, I need to pattern these new shells I have anyway,, I didn't get as tight of pattern as I used to with my old gun.


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## antsp1 (Oct 2, 2007)

The normal reaction from almost all animals hit in the neck is to immediately drop.


You can see this in boxing quite often. The human head can only turn so much, and if there is an attempt to make it turn further there are nerve bunches that make the boxer go unconscious immediately. This is to keep the boxer from breaking his neck. The is an automatic response, and there is nothing that the boxer can do about it.

In a shooting scenario, the shock wave (in the neck tissue) triggers this response, and drops them right where they stand. The secondary effect, of the shock wave as it travels through the tissue, kills the deer.

When shooting the neck, (which is almost always for me) I use the 3rds rule. Divide the neck into thirds vertically, and aim for the line between the top 3rd, and middle 3rd.

Ant


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## Garret (Aug 2, 2002)

Thunderhead said:


> In my neck of the woods, the heart - lung area has always been toted as the best bet for a clean kill.
> The only meat that will be runied is a little in the ribs. No biggy. He'll run a little ways, but you will recover that deer.
> Largest area on a deer that is fatal, with the room or a little bit of error on shot placement and still take out his vitals.
> 
> ...


Well said!


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## jc502 (Oct 8, 2002)

Thunderhead said:


> Either does a shoulder shot. I can't count how many deer I've seen ( and killed ) running with a busted shoulder with the leg flopping cause it didn't bust thru to the vitals.


That's more likely a problem with the choice of caliber. Different thread, different question!

Look at the pic I posted. Follow the neck into the shoulders (above the leg joint, below the shoulder joint). That's almost where you are talking anyway for a pure lung shot. Move the pure lung shot 2" over and you have lung, spinal cord......deer dropped in it's tracks, dead. There isn't much there for bone either, in the blade, not the joint. 

Of course, we are assuming a hunter can shoot accurately. If a hunter isn't proficient with his weapon, stick with the lung shot, more room for error in any direction. Even with proficiency, the argument could be made to stick with the "more room for error shot", so I don't think we are in total disagreement. I'm just saying the dude asked what is the best shot to drop a deer in it's tracks. The shot I described is the highest percentage shot for that.


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## TrekJeff (Sep 7, 2007)

jc502 said:


> I love how threads are launching points for things not originally asked by the poster!
> 
> the question was ......"How do you drop a deer in it's tracks?"
> 
> ...


Very good point, the answer to that question, with out any exception it to shoot the deer at the base of the skull, severing the spinal and scrambling the base of the brain. That is the guaranteed money shot.

BUT, it's NOT practical, I think the discussion brings out the best and humane way to take down a deer.


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## jc502 (Oct 8, 2002)

TrekJeff said:


> Very good point, the answer to that question, with out any exception it to shoot the deer at the base of the skull, severing the spinal and scrambling the base of the brain. That is the guaranteed money shot.
> 
> BUT, it's NOT practical, I think the discussion brings out the best and humane way to take down a deer.


Excellent point - I have to agree with you on that!

I have a sore spot about threads that pose questions with good intentions, and some guys ignore what the poster wanted to know. Grinds me like nails on a chalkboard. 

Man, do I need to go hunting or what?!?!?!?


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## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

I didn't ignore anything. I knew exactly what I was doing and why.

I posted what I did because there are alot of new hunters on here and the information I gave needed to be read. There are wayyyyyyyyyy to many deer shot and wounded for what I had to say not to be addressd or included.


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## michigandeerslayer (Oct 24, 2004)

I was just wondering how they do it, i didnt want to turn this into a pissing match. I shoot for the boiler room and if I hit a few inch's high im ok and im a few inch's low im good... I just wish they would drop do I didnt have to go into the thick stuff


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## michigandeerslayer (Oct 24, 2004)

here is a pic I found

Yellow is the nerve/spine area

Pink is the lungs

Red Is the Pumper


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## jc502 (Oct 8, 2002)

The left yellow dot is probably the better of the two. I like where it meets the pink circle for what you initially proposed. Here's to hoping we find out in about 9 days! :chillin:

I hunt about 90 yards off the property line, but the neighbor is right on it. He has tagged deer shot from this property before, refusing to allow the shooter permission to walk 20 yards on to his side to claim the buck. If presented with the opportunity this year, I'll take the shot above and share the results, as I am in a situation where I need the deer to drop ASAP.

As far as which shot is best, there is a balance between what you are capable of doing with a shot, and what you should do. I can put a .50 round ball down a 1 inch pipe at 40 yards, and have been tempted to put one in a deer's ear, but the results of messing up the shot, even if slight, outweighs the benefits. So I agree with previous posts, dead center in the lung circle is the highest percentage shot of them all, to _kill_ them, and is the shot most should take.


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## kykares (Sep 23, 2008)

no ball in the shoulder


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## tikki50 (Oct 17, 2007)

parition gold's from my moss500 drop a deer dead. I mean it falls over lifeless instantly.


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## LIVNSIN33 (Mar 22, 2007)

Can someone please help post the two high shoulder shot pictures from my album. I have no clue how to do it. Thanks!!!!


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## LIVNSIN33 (Mar 22, 2007)




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