# DNR giving bogus tickets?



## Crazy Axe (Mar 11, 2007)

I was browsing a snowmobile forum I frequent and came across this:

"The DNR has been very creative on there tickets giving to Salmon Fisherman. Tickets in the nature of " Atempting to Snag ", and other horaceing Tickets. Don't bend over and take it. Most of there Tickets are not supported by State Law. Its all about revinue. If there is no MCL number on the Ticket, its bogus. 
We have a couple cases we are taking to court. They are also telling you to give them $150. or they are taking you to jail, this also is not supported by state law. If you get Tickets or are horaced by the DNR we want to hear from you. 
We have the area State Rep. backing us up.

Dick"

and the other two responses

"Quote:
Originally Posted by dopp:
'i was in mel's dinner sunday and heard a couple of people saying they got tickets
one was $380 they said they would not be comming back to Michigan fishing again
sad'

We hear this all the time and are looking to do somthing about it. We need to get these Tickets dockumented, and get them to our State Rep.

The DNR is killing our economy.

They will be targeting me for this, but that is nothing new to me. I am a Township official here in Wellston and it is my Job to try to do somthing about this.

Dick"

I don't know anything more other than hearsay. Seems to me they wouldn't be writing a ticket without someone actually doing something wrong but you never know. I hope they either nail the guys they are ticketing if they are really doing wrong, or nail the CO(s) that is writing bogus tickets. If you get a bogus ticket I can probably get a hold of Dick's info seeing as he's not happy about it and works for Wellston government.


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## FISHMANMARK (Jun 11, 2007)

Rants from the illiterate are funny....:lol:


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

So many Dicks, so few Richards...


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## dmrbigeshott (Apr 18, 2010)

Crazy Axe said:


> They will be targeting me for this, but that is nothing new to me.* I am a Township official* here in Wellston and it is my Job to try to do somthing about this.


I find this somewhat disturbing.....


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## MERGANZER (Aug 24, 2006)

Horaceing tickets are no joke!:yikes:

Ganzer


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## mrjimspeaks (Aug 23, 2009)

The DNR ruining our economy and horaceing sportsman is terrible. THANKS OBAMA! :lol:


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## cdoj (Mar 14, 2013)

Crazy Axe said:


> If you get Tickets or are horaced by the DNR we want to hear from you.
> 
> .


I don't think many people "get tickets" like some communicable disease.


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## frenchriver1 (Jul 5, 2005)

I think the correct spelling of the word is whorea _ _ ed.


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## frenchriver1 (Jul 5, 2005)

mrjimspeaks said:


> The DNR ruining our economy and horaceing sportsman is terrible. THANKS OBAMA! :lol:


No, thanks, George Bush...

What the heck is horaceing? Might it be in any way akin to harassing?

If I get enough bogus tickets can I turn them in for a real ticket? 

Do bogus tickets come in scratch off form?

What do bogus COs look like, their bogus credentials, uniforms??? Funny glasses and a fake nose? 

Inquiring people want to know.:smile-mad


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## Sparky23 (Aug 15, 2007)

Good to hear, im glad more snaggers wont be coming back to our state, attempted snagging is well inforced in areas of the state, and should be everywhere, glad to hear about it, they dont wriet them for people trying to fish legal. Hats off to them the more tickets they write


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## Crazy Axe (Mar 11, 2007)

Sparky23 said:


> Good to hear, im glad more snaggers wont be coming back to our state, attempted snagging is well inforced in areas of the state, and should be everywhere, glad to hear about it, they dont wriet them for people trying to fish legal. Hats off to them the more tickets they write


This I agree with. I doubt they were writing tickets for no good reason. I tried to post this with openness that yes sometimes law enforcement can be corrupt. It may have come across that I was siding with the original complaintant though.

Now, if the person ticketed was snagging and the ticket was justified, then its scary to think that any of the wellston officials condone illegal activities.

And finally, yes you can "get" a ticket. Usually from doing something illegal though 

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## jerrob (Aug 6, 2011)

So..................when you log-on to this snowmobile forum, does it disable "spel chekc" on one's computer? :lol:


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## Crazy Axe (Mar 11, 2007)

jerrob said:


> So..................when you log-on to this snowmobile forum, does it disable "spel chekc" on one's computer? :lol:


He's probably using windows 98 because of all the money the DNR is keeping out of their economy :lol:

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## ih772 (Jan 28, 2003)

FISHMANMARK said:


> Rants from the illiterate are funny....:lol:


I agree.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

I wonder if the writer of that post is a silver spider salesman.


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

I'm not sure but he may have meant "horse racing" tickets. 


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

frenchriver1 said:


> Do bogus tickets come in scratch off form?


Yes, and they are available at most convenience stores near the zig zags and gambler tobacco. 



frenchriver1 said:


> What do bogus COs look like, their bogus credentials, uniforms??? Funny glasses and a fake nose?


Close, here's a picture I found of three of 'em checking people attempting to snag. 










They are clearly at the point during the contact in which they are trying to obtain the $150.


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## Jfish (Sep 22, 2010)

Crazy Axe said:


> I was browsing a snowmobile forum I frequent and came across this:
> 
> "The DNR has been very creative on there tickets giving to Salmon Fisherman. Tickets in the nature of " Atempting to Snag ", and other horaceing Tickets. Don't bend over and take it. Most of there Tickets are not supported by State Law. Its all about revinue. If there is no MCL number on the Ticket, its bogus.
> We have a couple cases we are taking to court. They are also telling you to give them $150. or they are taking you to jail, this also is not supported by state law. If you get Tickets or are horaced by the DNR we want to hear from you.
> ...


So the tickets say; Atempting to snag or is it Attempting to snag? Is it just one T that makes it horaceing? What exactly is revinue? Is it the same as revenue?

Honestly this is probably a snagger's post typing with a yellow rod.


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## cdoj (Mar 14, 2013)

Crazy Axe said:


> And finally, yes you can "get" a ticket. Usually from doing something illegal though


Be honest, we all know getting a ticket is simply being a victim of circumstance..


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## Waz_51 (Jan 10, 2010)

That guy Horace sure sounds like a jackass! So much so that they created a verb out of his name!


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## flyting (Jan 22, 2010)

FishMichv2 said:


> are you one of those guys who set the hook at the end of every drift? if so then you were attempting to snag.


This is exactly why I don't post much here! There's so many grown ups.


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

piscatorial warrior said:


> I find it interesting that you can tell a man's intentions by the color of his 'pole'. Actually it is called a 'Fishing rod'. I have an old Eagle claw rod that I use for casting Thundersticks. Does that make me an unethical fisherman? Stop the hate. Yellow Rods Rule!!



Spray it with black paint, and then use a silver Sharpie to stencil in "Orvis" or "GLoomis" and you will no longer have to deal with being cast as a second class fisherman.


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## METTLEFISH (Jan 31, 2009)

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/FO1_HookSize_466739_7.pdf

Per usual... there will be no Salmon run in 2015.


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## FishMichv2 (Oct 18, 2004)

flyting said:


> This is exactly why I don't post much here! There's so many grown ups.


It was a serious question. Not sure what is immature about it. I see a ton of people out there setting the hook at the end of every drift and thats snagging. Chances are you were doing that if you got ticketed.

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## GVDocHoliday (Sep 5, 2003)

METTLEFISH said:


> http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/FO1_HookSize_466739_7.pdf
> 
> Per usual... there will be no Salmon run in 2015.


I'd rather them ammend FO-202 and put those river bodies under that order rather than making a whole new regulation category. Kind of goes against the whole consolidating and simplifying the fishing guide. Not to mention all they'll do next year is use a mold-able aluminum like alumilloy and mold ticklers out of that and double the price. HAHA, some could argue that would actually "bolster" the local economy? Only way to really eliminate the gear even being on the river is to simply make it a single hook max not to exceed 3/8 from point to shank. 

They've been fishing Salmon at Ludington State Park like this for many many years.


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## Patman75 (Jan 11, 2012)

Thanks for the good morning chuckle everyone. :lol:


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## fishinfever (Feb 14, 2005)

GVDocHoliday said:


> Here's the MCL for Attempting to Snag:
> 
> MCL 324.48703


You could have ended one of the craziest threads I have ever read by bringing facts into the conversation. 

Thanks to everyone for all the laughs.

Seriously, was the original post real?

Tight lines,
FF


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## GVDocHoliday (Sep 5, 2003)

fishinfever said:


> You could have ended one of the craziest threads I have ever read by bringing facts into the conversation.
> 
> Thanks to everyone for all the laughs.
> 
> ...


Sorry. 

Unfortunately I do believe the original post of copied posts from another forum is in fact real. However, I've never heard of Wellston township officials. Or Wellston Township for that matter.


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## MERGANZER (Aug 24, 2006)

I would think an "attempting to snag" ticket would be thrown out if taken to court unless the gear used was illegal. To say that a hook set is illegal is funny.

Ganzer


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## GVDocHoliday (Sep 5, 2003)

MERGANZER said:


> I would think an "attempting to snag" ticket would be thrown out if taken to court unless the gear used was illegal. To say that a hook set is illegal is funny.
> 
> Ganzer


Which is why they haven't been issued at Tippy in a few years. Now possession of fowl hooked fish....


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## Crazy Axe (Mar 11, 2007)

GVDocHoliday said:


> Sorry.
> 
> Unfortunately I do believe the original post of copied posts from another forum is in fact real. However, I've never heard of Wellston township officials. Or Wellston Township for that matter.


Yeah I know it seems really dumb and I don't post here often so it could be viewed as I just made this up, but trust me, I couldn't make this crap up if I tried.


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## MERGANZER (Aug 24, 2006)

GVDocHoliday said:


> Which is why they haven't been issued at Tippy in a few years. Now possession of fowl hooked fish....


 
Probably be easier to just run everyone at Tippy for warants as they pull in the parking lot. What a madhouse that place is. Why anyone would be dumb enough to keep a foul hooked dying fish while hundreds of people watch is beyond me.

Ganzer


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

MERGANZER said:


> Probably be easier to just run everyone at Tippy for warants as they pull in the parking lot. What a madhouse that place is. Why anyone would be dumb enough to keep a foul hooked dying fish while hundreds of people watch is beyond me.
> 
> Ganzer



Sounds like Harbor Beach around 2000. 


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## FishKilla419 (Feb 22, 2008)

The snaggers that don't return will be replaced by people who love to fish tippy and actually have respect for the place. Like myself and allot of others I know. People who actually help the local economy by buying stuff other than snagging lures.


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## MERGANZER (Aug 24, 2006)

Escanaba in da moonlight has a new sequel. The new movie is called "Dick From Wellston and the evil DNR".

Ganzer


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## frenchriver1 (Jul 5, 2005)

GVDocHoliday said:


> ...Now possession of fowl hooked fish....


 
Now wait a minute! Are we talking fish or birds? Or are birds hooking fish? Can you keep a fish if it is attached to a bird, or vice versa? 

Funniest thread in quite a while.....


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## jatc (Oct 24, 2008)

frenchriver1 said:


> Now wait a minute! Are we talking fish or birds? Or are birds hooking fish? Can you keep a fish if it is attached to a bird, or vice versa?
> 
> Funniest thread in quite a while.....



Crap!!!!

Guess I'll have to quit using live ducklings for pike bait now.

Stupid, overreaching DNR!!!!!


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Wait a minute....what about a fish caught with a bird....hmmmm







"http://youtu.be/JNEplaYZtpI"


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## frenchriver1 (Jul 5, 2005)

I'm guessing that fishing with cormorants is illegal in MI. Not however in SE Asia. Now if only we could get those ducklings to have the pike swim into the net.


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## man vs. fish (Sep 6, 2010)

dead short said:


> Sounds like Harbor Beach around 2000.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire


Hb is a ghost town nowadays


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## FishnBurn (Apr 24, 2012)

I'm glad I hope they're back next year "horacing" more of these mouth breathers. When we came back this week the area we fish was full of fish guts and feces. Disgusting subhuman scum is all I can say. I'll pack out all the heavy braid and giant hooks but I won't pick up your **** rags


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## Jimbos (Nov 21, 2000)

dead short said:


> Depending on the location, some guys would just hook one and walk the other way and drag them out.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire


How do you handle the native American snagging issue when your just observing snaggers from afar? They can snag anywhere, right?


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## frenchriver1 (Jul 5, 2005)

Robert Holmes said:


> Those tree trunk rods were all that a guy could buy once August rolled around.
> The 80 pound test line was considered going ultra light
> Never tried to winch a truck but we snagged a 30 foot boat that got away in a windstorm and reeled it right in.
> I watch those guys on the Tuna show and wonder where they got those small reels. The rods look to be about the same. They claim that the rod cost $1000. I used to buy them for $15


Those show guys might "sell" it as fishing but I call it winching, 130 or so pound test line, and all they do is just crack the handle on the reel, the rod stuck in the boat. That is not fishing to me, since I always have wanted to catch one of those big tuna fairly. Just another example of testosterone on parade, all bitching and macho smack talk. Let's stir things up with North versus South...

Now lets get back to the serious talk about horaceing and bogus tickets by bogus COs... Need some more laughs.


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

The only way IMO to stop the snagging is to take out all the dams and let the fish swim barrier free. !0 years from now the only salmon runs will be natural reproducing runs. Since the salmon plants will be no more. Let's protect the natural runs. I was at Tippy a couple years ago, across the river from the main park (cant remember its name). I could barely walk down the stairs because of the fish slime! There is even a troff (sp) to drag your fish up! Disgusting!


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

toto said:


> I was thinking maybe they were selling tickets to the Conservation Officers Ball, but then I remembered, CO's don't have those.
> 
> Hey, just thought I'd throw that out there.


I just love how everyone bashes our DNR CO's! Thankless job IMO! Kind of like school teachers. I've never had a bad experience with a CO. CO's enforce the laws, they don't make them!


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## man vs. fish (Sep 6, 2010)

2508speed said:


> I just love how everyone bashes our DNR CO's! Thankless job IMO! Kind of like school teachers. I've never had a bad experience with a CO. CO's enforce the laws, they don't make them!


Hopefully in the next few years ill be a CO, been a longtime dream of mine and hope to make a difference. Definitely the good guys.


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## jigsnwigs (Feb 6, 2011)

man vs. fish said:


> Hopefully in the next few years ill be a CO, been a longtime dream of mine and hope to make a difference. Definitely the good guys.


Just like the Chevy Chase movie, Vegas Vacation. You know. Where he is trying to plug the hole in the Hoover dam with a piece of gum. I have no doubt that your heart is in the right place. But until the mentality of the uneducated so called "sportfisherman" changes. It really is a lost cause. 

Kind of like the masses of deer hunters in the fall. Throwing out a bait pile and calling it "deer hunting." What a joke. Good luck. I wish you all the best!


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

jigsnwigs said:


> Just like the Chevy Chase movie, Vegas Vacation. You know. Where he is trying to plug the hole in the Hoover dam with a piece of gum. I have no doubt that your heart is in the right place. But until the mentality of the uneducated so called "sportfisherman" changes. It really is a lost cause.
> 
> Kind of like the masses of deer hunters in the fall. Throwing out a bait pile and calling it "deer hunting." What a joke. Good luck. I wish you all the best!


Atta boy wigs! Good confidence building post there! I take it you don't bait for deer? lol


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## Fishslayer5789 (Mar 1, 2007)

Crazy Axe said:


> I was browsing a snowmobile forum I frequent and came across this:
> 
> "The DNR has been very creative on there tickets giving to Salmon Fisherman. Tickets in the nature of " Atempting to Snag ", and other horaceing Tickets. Don't bend over and take it. Most of there Tickets are not supported by State Law. Its all about revinue. If there is no MCL number on the Ticket, its bogus.
> We have a couple cases we are taking to court. They are also telling you to give them $150. or they are taking you to jail, this also is not supported by state law. If you get Tickets or are horaced by the DNR we want to hear from you.
> ...


 
Obviously, nothing in the above statement is correct. The guy who wrote it probably didn't even graduate high school, because he otherwise would have learned how to spell. This crayon-eating moron was probably fed paint chips as a child and kept in a dungeon until he was 18. 

The reason that these people are getting tickets is in fact, because they are making an unethical decision. These are the exact same people that can't understand why they were put in jail for drunk driving, beating their wives & kids, stealing, and drugs and they are the exact same people that say they're fishing and hunting to put food on the table while they're sitting in front of you chain smoking cigarettes and drinking Natty Daddys. With a lack of education and poor upbringing generally comes a lack of moral obedience which leads to unlawful decisions with consequences. The DNR is acting in the best interest of the majority of sportsmen, and they're not "out to get anyone". The bottom line is----if you play by the rules, there is nothing to worry about. The fact is that law enforcement officers have one primary job---enforcing the law, and that is exactly what they are doing. I don't want to be surrounded by unethical sportsmen or dangerous people while I'm out in the field, and I sincerely appreciate that we have people that can step up and keep it safe & enforce ethical fishing and hunting practices.


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## toto (Feb 16, 2000)

2508 man it was just a joke, lighten up a bit. Good Grief, if you want to know I have/had 2 friends who are CO's and I know what they go through from time to time, they have my utmost respect.:rant:


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## Phoolish (Aug 17, 2011)

Fishslayer5789 said:


> Obviously, nothing in the above statement is correct. The guy who wrote it probably didn't even graduate high school, because he otherwise would have learned how to spell. This crayon-eating moron was probably fed paint chips as a child and kept in a dungeon until he was 18.
> 
> The reason that these people are getting tickets is in fact, because they are making an unethical decision. These are the exact same people that can't understand why they were put in jail for drunk driving, beating their wives & kids, stealing, and drugs and they are the exact same people that say they're fishing and hunting to put food on the table while they're sitting in front of you chain smoking cigarettes and drinking Natty Daddys. With a lack of education and poor upbringing generally comes a lack of moral obedience which leads to unlawful decisions with consequences. The DNR is acting in the best interest of the majority of sportsmen, and they're not "out to get anyone". The bottom line is----if you play by the rules, there is nothing to worry about. The fact is that law enforcement officers have one primary job---enforcing the law, and that is exactly what they are doing. I don't want to be surrounded by unethical sportsmen or dangerous people while I'm out in the field, and I sincerely appreciate that we have people that can step up and keep it safe & enforce ethical fishing and hunting practices.


hey dont bring natty daddys into this


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## Crazy Axe (Mar 11, 2007)

A little shorthand update.. Dick, or the dick as I'm going to refer to him, is trying to say snagging is not illegal until you are keeping "fowl" hooked fish (lol)

I tried to argue with him, posting the "it is unlawful to.." Section from the fishing guide and he states that is only a guide, not the actual law. He then claimed the DNR is only targeting out of towners thinking they won't come back to fight it. This dick is really getting on my nerves with how ignorant he is.

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## Kelsey1 (Dec 16, 2005)

I am going to give "Dick from Welston" a big thumbs up for his honest and accurate snowmobile reports/conditions. Thanks Dick, you have saved me hundreds in gas money and also put me on some excellent snow that were not available from my many other sources. Carry on.


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## pinhead (Oct 4, 2008)

METTLEFISH said:


> http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/FO1_HookSize_466739_7.pdf
> 
> Per usual... there will be no Salmon run in 2015.



Food for thought?

Ok, serious question arises from this. Here is an excerpt from the above document. I hope I am reading this correctly as future unintended consequences may surprise us all at the most inopportune time. 

"Conservation officers would be able to ticket possession of unlawful fishing gear instead of having to spend a long time observing and documenting unlawful angler behavior"

All of you here at one time or another hooked up with river line trash and have retrieved hooks, line, lead shot, etc. Instead of throwing it back in, you packed it out. (I brought home about 3 pounds of lead this year from last year tickler baits with poor hooks, but usable if sharpened.) Now, envision yourself standing in the river on August 20th, 2015, fishing when a CO asks to check your gear, and guess what you have. I hope there was no 3 pointer you were planning to pack out. Do you think they care about what your intentions were? 

Statements regarding recent police activities, and the "I have an emergency" excuse which is overused and not believed. If that three pronged hook is in your possession, not on a line, not being used, just in your possession, this is a violation of the law? (Yes, that is the question I feel needs to be answered.) Or you landed a decaying tickler from last year. The one you were packing out to re-use the lead to make steelhead jigs. It seems possession is the key. Therefore, one would not be able to take spare plug hooks to change the action of the lure if needed. Since possession of them is unlawful fishing gear regardless of the intended purpose. Does this mean that if it is not on a plug or spoon, you cannot have them?


If you think I am splitting hairs with this one, you may be mistaken. 4 years ago, I witnessed an individual legally fishing who landed a salmon only to have their fish taken and ticketed because the fish was foul hooked. Now, keep reading as this is where it gets better. He landed a fish, hooked in the mouth. The fish had one in the mouth and a second fly, from someone's past failure down river, in the belly. The reason for the ticket was he kept a foul hooked fish. Now, to me what I saw was a legally hooked fish as his streamer was in the mouth. However, since there was another body mark from a hook in the belly of the fish, the fish was considered foul hooked by the officer. Past tense of "was" seemed to be applied incorrectly in this situation. I have not heard of this since because the last 3 years there has been a focus on the attempted snagging clause. 

Now apply that reasoning to the word: Possession. New, old, used, pulled up from the river bottom, it will not matter as it is in your possession. 

(the only treb's I own are for spring steel when using wobbles). But they are in my gear pack all year long. That will change. 

G


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## 2508speed (Jan 6, 2011)

toto said:


> 2508 man it was just a joke, lighten up a bit. Good Grief, if you want to know I have/had 2 friends who are CO's and I know what they go through from time to time, they have my utmost respect.:rant:


 Sorry man! Didn't realize you were joking. All is well.


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## fishinfever (Feb 14, 2005)

Pinhead, you did give us food for thought.

I think if I found a tickler or some kind of snagging device I would bend or in some other way render the hooks useless if I wanted to save the lead or just clean up the river.

The bad news is I think you are on to something because you could be rolling the dice if you are stopped by the DNR. Especially with the new regulations. 

I always pack out junk like that and I wouldn't have considered the problems that I might set myself up for so thanks for the food for thought.

Tight lines,
FF


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## jd_speed (Jul 22, 2014)

I had the same thing come to mind after pulling two ticklers out of the Big Man Thursday and formulated the following plan for next year. I plan on carrying a box for river trash and if I happen to pull in a tickler I'll use my pliers to snip off the trebles and further snip off them into pieces so they are no longer hooks. Only thing I can think of other than tossing them back in the river and that's not gonna happen.


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