# orv's on state land



## reddog719 (Dec 22, 2002)

I had a knee replaced going on 2 years ago and now thanks to it not healing well im disabled. My question is does anybody know if since I cant walk very far if I would be able to drive a utv on state land? If I can do I need special permits or just what do I need to do? Or am I just screwed for hunting anymore. Thanks in advance Lynn


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## bigcountrysg (Oct 9, 2006)

You will need a disabled permit. The info is on www.mi.gov/dnr


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## hitechman (Feb 25, 2002)

See Michigan ORV Certification for Persons with Disabilities: here

Steve


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## Fatdaddy (Feb 5, 2012)

You can have the DNR form signed or if I understand it, your handicap parking mirror allows it also. It seems that isnt mentioned much as the mirror tags are already mis-used. So I got my DNR one just to be safe! Most the DNR field gents dont understand it as they said I had to drive. 

I purchase a polaris rzr as it has a sterring wheel and is 50 inches in width, I dont worry to much about getting stuck. I have a wench but just to lift deer and snow plow. I was thinking of a front gated blind and using the winch to pull it shut for helping worse off others wth handicaps to get out and hunt. Good luck see ya soon in the woods!


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## Luv2hunteup (Mar 22, 2003)

ORV Certification for Persons with a Disability


> Persons that meet the following criteria are permitted to operate licensed ATVs/ORVs on forest roads that are open to public vehicular travel on state lands (including those not posted open to ORVs). *Privileges do not extend to cross-country travel nor to areas, trails and roads specifically posted CLOSED to vehicle or ORV use, nor to the operation of an ORV within state game, wildlife, or research areas, federal forest lands, state parks, state recreation areas or Michigan trailways:*
> 
> Those persons issued a valid temporary or permanent handicapper parking permit issued by the Secretary of State Office.
> Those persons holding Permits to Hunt from a Standing Vehicle.
> ...


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## glockman55 (Mar 9, 2006)

I was gonna say it won't do you much good on closed to atv trails, but
*Privileges do not extend to cross-country travel nor to areas, trails and roads specifically posted CLOSED to vehicle or ORV use, nor to the operation of an ORV within state game, wildlife, or research areas, federal forest lands, state parks, state recreation areas or Michigan trailways:*

Not much good..


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## dead short (Sep 15, 2009)

Don't forget, there are different regulations for operation on different types of state lands. 


Posted from my iPhone.


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## limige (Sep 2, 2005)

Good topic.
Seems to me with many of our northern counties allow orv use on back roads that allows use of them on state areas normally open to vehicle traffic right?! 
I'm talking regular old state land two tracks. Utv's same or different, ?


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## hitechman (Feb 25, 2002)

Jeff Reed is a disabbled man living in Shiawassee, and he has become an advocate for the disabled sportsman. He is very outspoken with his beliefs.

Here are 2 exerpts from an e-mails he sent me in March 2012: Remember that his statements may contain some opinions that are not necessairly law.

*"As a mobility disabled person covered by the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 and 2008, I have special mobility accommodation rights not available to the normal ATV/UTV operator. For example, I have a special disability permit issued to me by the Michigan DNR and Parks Department which allows me to operate my side by side UTV/ electric golf cart at the Ionia and Highland field trial grounds during any bird dog field trial I attend, watch or participate. Additionally, mobility disabled folks have special DNR permits to allow them to hunt off their ATV's. I have challenged any Michigan governmental authority to try to ticket me for operating my legal ATV/electric golf cart with a "golden triangle" and my disability placard on any public street and so far none have been willing to take me to court and tell a judge why they violated my legal mobility rights under ADA law or Michigan's Eliot-Larson Act."*

* "The main thing you have to keep in mind about disabled people and public mobility methods for disabled people, is if an area is allowed to have people walking on an established trail or road, as a disabled person, I have just as much legal right to use my ATV/UTV as my legal means of conveyance. Disabled people are not allowed to run willy-nilly all over the place but if a trail is allowed pedestrians, I am legally allowed to ride my ATV as an accommodation for my crippled legs. 
Consider my ATV/Electric golf cart as my wheel chair. Do you think any governmental authority is going to deny me the use of my wheel chair any place I want to go? My wheel chair or amigo scooter is not mechanically capable of trail and rough ground operation is it? The ADA law says the rules don't change just because I substitute an ATV in place of a wheelchair or electric scooter for places I want to go which are restricted by the mechanical limitations of my wheelchair or Amigo scooter."*

*Here* in an MLive article about him.

Steve


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## Rzr (Oct 8, 2007)

hitechman said:


> Jeff Reed is a disabbled man living in Shiawassee, and he has become an advocate for the disabled sportsman. He is very outspoken with his beliefs.
> 
> Here are 2 exerpts from an e-mails he sent me in March 2012: Remember that his statements may contain some opinions that are not necessairly law.
> 
> ...


I'm a big supporter of the young, old and disabled in regards to access with atv/uts but there's a lot offered above that most aren't simply willing to tackle in a discussion here. I would pay attention more to 50" vs "routes" on state land and remember that everything is closed unless posted open the last time I checked (where the ADA fits in there I'd be a little skeptical as the poster recommended...).


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## hitechman (Feb 25, 2002)

Rzr said:


> I'm a big supporter of the young, old and disabled in regards to access with atv/uts but there's a lot offered above that most aren't simply willing to tackle in a discussion here. I would pay attention more to 50" vs "routes" on state land and remember that everything is closed unless posted open the last time I checked (where the ADA fits in there I'd be a little skeptical as the poster recommended...).


The OP of this thread inquired about what additional privilages the disabled have. I've addressed some of that with the ADA. 50" vs routes is for all (not just the disabled)...........so posts addressing the disabled are the topic of this thread!

Steve


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## Rzr (Oct 8, 2007)

Rzr said:


> I'm a big supporter of the young, old and disabled in regards to access with atv/uts but there's a lot offered above that most aren't simply willing to tackle in a discussion here. I would pay attention more to 50" vs "routes" on state land and remember that everything is closed unless posted open the last time I checked (where the ADA fits in there I'd be a little skeptical as the poster recommended...).





hitechman said:


> The OP of this thread inquired about what additional privilages the disabled have. I've addressed some of that with the ADA. 50" vs routes is for all (not just the disabled)...........so posts addressing the disabled are the topic of this thread!
> 
> Steve


I think that you may want to reread my post. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make about it and I even repeated/agreed with what you offered (save the other guy's attitude). I think we all know what the topic of this thread is about....


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## hitechman (Feb 25, 2002)

Rzr said:


> I think that you may want to reread my post. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make about it and I even repeated/agreed with what you offered (save the other guy's attitude). I think we all know what the topic of this thread is about....


Did not mean to offend you.......I was referring to the "pay more attention to the 50" vs routes" portion of your post. Disabled and those that are not can already ride on trails and routes open to ATV's. I think this thread refers moreso to the disabled riding on those roads/routes/trails not open to ATV (and yet allow motorized wheelchairs).

Jeff Reed is recognized as an expert on the rights of the disabled and is a very outspoken activist..........he has fought and won many lawsuits to futher the rights of the disabled ORV riders, and many seek his council and advise. Yes, the article I referenced has to do with riding on state land for AKC field trials, but Jeff advocates ORV use anywhere (for the disabled) the nondisabled can walk or drive.

Although it is not in any law I can find, I also believe the ADA allows me (disabled as well) to use my ATV as my motorized wheelchair to go anywhere anyone walking or using a wheelchair can go in the out-of-doors.

Steve


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## malainse (Sep 2, 2002)

I moved this to the ORV section. Is good information but, does have some opinions. We like to stay away from that in the legal forum. 

Here you can civilly discuss the topic....


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## Rzr (Oct 8, 2007)

hitechman said:


> Did not mean to offend you.......I was referring to the "pay more attention to the 50" vs routes" portion of your post. Disabled and those that are not can already ride on trails and routes open to ATV's. I think this thread refers moreso to the disabled riding on those roads/routes/trails not open to ATV (and yet allow motorized wheelchairs).
> 
> Jeff Reed is recognized as an expert on the rights of the disabled and is a very outspoken activist..........he has fought and won many lawsuits to futher the rights of the disabled ORV riders, and many seek his council and advise. Yes, the article I referenced has to do with riding on state land for AKC field trials, but Jeff advocates ORV use anywhere (for the disabled) the nondisabled can walk or drive.
> 
> ...


No offense taken. I am unaware of any of these areas being open to the disabled on an atv or utv. If they were, I would expect that a sustainable maintenance program be set up (and funded) for each and every area that was accessed. The DNR uses 'impact' to keep general orv users off of public lands and then throw in a lack of funding as their trump card in every single instance. Our orv accesss fees are about to *triple* (which no other outdoor group would put up with) because Michigan orv users are the most apathetic users in the history of the state and perhaps the nation/world given the size of our present system (largest maintained in the nation).
Sorry, but I just don't agree with either Jeff's or your premise as stated:

*"...Although it is not in any law I can find, I also believe the ADA allows me (disabled as well) to use my ATV as my motorized wheelchair to go anywhere anyone walking or using a wheelchair can go in the out-of-doors..."*

If it's not in the law either federal or state...then it's probably not allowed for either good reason or not. I don't mind fighting for the disabled just as long as they are not breaking off from what should be the larger fight and that is to achieve greater access for everybody which includes both the very young and very old *in the same boat but not necessarily legally defined as such*. The current Michigan orv advisory process is perhaps the most corrupt in the history of the state culminating with this previously before unheard of tripling of our access fees. Fighting the currently entrenched interests to save and expand both your access-related interests and everybody else's including future generations will take a united effort.

Again, no offense intended but I would rather have Jeff and you as a partner in the bigger/nastier fight against state/non-profit corruption presently affecting access for *all* of us rather than supporting you at the federal level involving a law that frankly has had a lot of issues historically. In my opinion (and I've said this for years), the disabled (along with the very young/old) should be the number one focus of any organized orv group...period. A coordinated effort would embody what orving is all about and would certainly be the gateway _partnership_ to achieving everything that the riding public (at least most of us) ever dreamed of in terms of access and more importantly stewardship of the resource.

Divided we fall has unfortunately been the reality.


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## Rzr (Oct 8, 2007)

malainse said:


> I moved this to the ORV section. Is good information but, does have some opinions. We like to stay away from that in the legal forum.
> 
> Here you can civilly discuss the topic....


Good call. I have never witnessed the state _not_ cross their t's and dot their i's 'legally' in terms of denying access to the majority and red carpetting it for the minority before (think gear restrictions, motorcycle only systems, etc.) but I may be mistaken on this one...


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## hitechman (Feb 25, 2002)

Rzr said:


> No offense taken. I am unaware of any of these areas being open to the disabled on an atv or utv. If they were, I would expect that a sustainable maintenance program be set up (and funded) for each and every area that was accessed. The DNR uses 'impact' to keep general orv users off of public lands and then throw in a lack of funding as their trump card in every single instance. Our orv accesss fees are about to *triple* (which no other outdoor group would put up with) because Michigan orv users are the most apathetic users in the history of the state and perhaps the nation/world given the size of our present system (largest maintained in the nation).
> Sorry, but I just don't agree with either Jeff's or your premise as stated:
> 
> *"...Although it is not in any law I can find, I also believe the ADA allows me (disabled as well) to use my ATV as my motorized wheelchair to go anywhere anyone walking or using a wheelchair can go in the out-of-doors..."*.........


Excellent and well put post Rzr.

It *is* in the Federal ADA (allowing mobility disabled access to any place the nondisabled can go), but is not adequately addressed by the Michigan DNR, and I can understand their concern. I guess they hope it will just go away.

I'm really on your side Rzr, and I am very active in legislative issues. I communicate with Dick Ranney (MMRC-Michigan Motorized Recreation Council) on a regular basis, as well as my senators and representatives (who have been very supportive as long as it doesn't cost anything). I am currently working with the Ashley Village and the City of Saint Louis Councils to get on-road ORV ordinances.........I'm guessing both will pass in the near future.

I had a web page up with all the county on-road use ordinances on 1 page, but that site was taken off the net for financial reasons, and I am currently looking for a "new home". Also had all the links to routes, handbooks, rules, and trails as well.

I am not convinced that we (ORVers) are divided ("divided we fall"), but rather feel that apathy and ignorance are rampant in our ranks.

ATVoffroad.net was a premiere site for Michigan a few years back. Membership has greatly declined and leadership does not seem too proactive.

I am aware there is a bill in the legislature to double the license fees next year, and triple them in 2014 for ORV's....with no accounting of where and how the funds are spent. The logic is that snowmobilers pay $45 so ORVers should also!

Are you interested in trying to get a strong state ORV organization going? You can count on my support and help. Lets do it!

Steve


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## Rzr (Oct 8, 2007)

hitechman said:


> Excellent and well put post Rzr.
> 
> It *is* in the Federal ADA (allowing mobility disabled access to any place the nondisabled can go), but is not adequately addressed by the Michigan DNR, and I can understand their concern. I guess they hope it will just go away.
> 
> ...


The door is wide open for a strong state orv organization as you mentioned. I would go over to this thread http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=415564 and read some of my posts concerning the broken state advisory board system to get a glimpse as to exactly how _any_ stakeholder could push through a tripling of user fees with absolutely no accountability for the increased funds themselves (plus how to fix this). 
The problem that you(we) have with getting people organized is pretty much mirrored in that thread. Folks _love_ to talk solutions all day long...yet when it comes to doing the tough work of questioning how the entire system is set up or how the process is being implimented on a day to day basis...not so much. This failure to simply back up those willing to root out the corruption involved and effectively morph the state/public relationship into a more transparent one turns many decent people away.
This is where you are at with your MMRC and the orv advisory board. There is no other state or perhaps country out there with that many miles of maintained trails...and such _dysfunctional_ state/stakeholder leadership. I'll ask you two things to prove this:
1) Please produce for me a single meeting minutes since the MMRC first claimed to represent every off-road group in Michigan. If they have a website or a quick info page...I've never found it.
2) Research for me the last year where the same two individuals weren't cherry picked to represent 'all of us'...and what their background is in terms of who they support.

You've got a tough row to hoe my friend in more ways than one.
The problem is that you have to choose between playing along with back-door-agreed-upon issues such as this tripling of fees with no accountability...or being nastily shut out all together because you dared to stand up against those presently gaming the system for their own benefit (see the doubling of parent training subsidies for a quick primer).

Until we get behind these closed doors and start shaking a few trees things are not going to change for the better and I'm truly sorry about that both for you and everyone else who cares about the resource.


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## MUDDY4LIFE (Apr 13, 2001)

RZR,
hello, and great post.

How can I reach you? 

Bill G [ safety instructor ]


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## reddog719 (Dec 22, 2002)

Thanks guys all the info helped.. Im pretty much screwed, I just moved to the ashley area and I was gonna go explore/hunt some of the state land around here. But I cant walk the 1/4 1/2 mile to get into the woods. from what I have seen there are a lot of fields that get farmed that are DNR land. so I guess I wont hunt This year. gonna take some time to get used to that.Thanks again Lynn


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