# Thor's Hammer - MRP & 240gr Woodleigh



## beartooth (Feb 14, 2007)

My 300WBY with MRP - 240gr Woodleigh - OAL 3.530 - moving 2780fps group size .559". Did pull one round a little.


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

That'll do the trick alright. Where did you find MRP? About the only place I've seen it is at some online sellers. None of my local places have ever carried it that I can remember. I wanted to try some in one of my rifles.


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## beartooth (Feb 14, 2007)

M1Garand said:


> That'll do the trick alright. Where did you find MRP? About the only place I've seen it is at some online sellers. None of my local places have ever carried it that I can remember. I wanted to try some in one of my rifles.


you can find it on line, I will check back where I bought and get back to you.


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## beartooth (Feb 14, 2007)

energy at muzzle 4117
at 100yds 3479
at 200yds 2920
at 300yds 2434bullet path muzz -1.5
at 100yds  +3.01
at 200yds +2.18
at 300yds -5.01
at 340yds -10.00
Not bad for a heavy weight. can't wait to also work with the TSX should be fine accuracy and ballistic


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## beartooth (Feb 14, 2007)

M1Garand said:


> That'll do the trick alright. Where did you find MRP? About the only place I've seen it is at some online sellers. None of my local places have ever carried it that I can remember. I wanted to try some in one of my rifles.


Link for MRP http://store.sportsworldtulsa.com/store/tek9.asp?pg=products&grp=146


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

beartooth said:


> Link for MRP http://store.sportsworldtulsa.com/store/tek9.asp?pg=products&grp=146


Thanks, here's another site where I get some of my powder and the only other place I've seen MRP. They also have some great prices and very reasonable shipping prices:

Powder Valley, Inc.


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

TSX and a few other Barnes bullets. Like the 85gr in 6mm for my 243. Have a few 30-06s to work loads for too.


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## beartooth (Feb 14, 2007)

Huntsman27 said:


> TSX and a few other Barnes bullets. Like the 85gr in 6mm for my 243. Have a few 30-06s to work loads for too.


Huntsman27, let me know how your work with the TSX turns out.


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

beartooth said:


> Huntsman27, let me know how your work with the TSX turns out.


Get back from out west [PD trip for a week]. I have a new 30-06 and a 243 I was looking at using the bullets 243-85 TSX and 30-06 either the 165 TSX-BT or 168 TSX-BT.
Although Im looking at the MRX-BTs [no 6mm at this time] but like the 30 cal 165 #30885 or the 180 #30888 The MRXs having higher BCs for longer range applications.
Maybe try IMR-4895, and IMR-4350 for starters. Ill have to check their load data when I get a chance.


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

huntsman - i'd say 4350 in either variety is a good starting point.

the 168 grain tsx like it deep in the case - talked to a barnes tech, and he recommended starting at .03" off lands, then increasing by .02". 

found .05" off to be the sweet spot in this particular gun.

BT - aren't you a little concerned about the speed you're driving those at? they list the operational speeds at 1900-2400 fps. you're nearly 400 fps in excess of the top recommended speed?


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

1st powder Im leaning toward using. Probably IMR-4350 or H-4350.


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

rzdrmh said:


> BT - aren't you a little concerned about the speed you're driving those at? they list the operational speeds at 1900-2400 fps. you're nearly 400 fps in excess of the top recommended speed?


I don't know much about woodleigh bullets but after reading that I did a quick search and you are correct:

http://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/Bullet%20List%203.html

and that is their recommended velocities for that bullet. BT, you may want to contact them and ask them about that. I found their email (at least the one form the contact at the above site):

[email protected]


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## beartooth (Feb 14, 2007)

M1Garand said:


> I don't know much about woodleigh bullets but after reading that I did a quick search and you are correct:
> 
> http://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/Bullet%20List%203.html
> 
> ...


Here is my correspondence to Mr McDonald at Woodleigh bullets:

Mr. Geoff McDonald, I wrote you not long ago about the use of the
>>> 240gr bullet in the 30-06 and I am testing some loads now. I also
>>> have loaded it in my 300WBY and with Norma MRP I am getting around
>>> 2750fps 1 1/2inch group and IMR7828 2708 7/8 inch group. Now my
>>> question is will it hold together at 2700fps. and of course at
>>> 100yds there is no question it will hold togethere coming out of my
>>> 300WBY. It is easy to load, shoots great and it would seem to me
>>> that it could take more than 2400fps but I need to ask you before I
>>> use in on heavy game Moose, bear, elk adn maybe in a year or so in
>>> Africa on Lion. Would you please advise and respond. Thank you
>>> Mike Price
>
> I will be using it this fall on heavy game and will
> report the effectiveness plus wound channel and penetration. I went
> out to hunt hogs yesterday with my grandson (8yrs old) and we did not
> see a thing so when we got back to the hunting camp I found this old
> brick that is at least 80yrs old, not porous like the new brick of
> today and much heavier. So I said to my grandson get way back and
> look through the binoculars and keep looking at the brick. So I took
> out Thor (the name I gave my 300WBY) and put one of those 240gr
> bullets moving 2720fps and at 25yds shot the brick. Guess what
> happened? A cloud of dust. My grandson said "it exploded" and that is
> what it look liked. All that was on this old table where the brick
> was placed was some sand and a few peaces of gravel. I looked in the
> dirt mount behind the table and found a good part of the bullet with
> red brick all stuck in it. Then I took a 4" thick cement block that
> weighted about 25 pounds and placed it on the table and shot if from
> 25yds, there was a cloud of dust, some sand and gravel on the table
> with a couple of larger size chunks about the size of a tennis ball
> and that was all that could be found of the cement block. I looked
> for the bullet in the dirt and found small fragments that had passed
> though the block and penetrated the dirt mound. To me that was just
> amazing, just amazing. I know this will be a killer on deer, elk,
> moose, black bear and even Grizzly, I also believe it will be a real
> stopper on lion because it will open up and shock the beast as well
> as penetrate. I believe when all is said and done, the 240gr in my
> 300WBY on thin skinned large and dangerous game will give me the
> following. 1. Sufficient energy &#8220;due to velocity&#8221;. 2. Sufficient
> &#8220;Momentum due to bullet weight&#8221;. 3. Sufficient &#8220;Shock Wave Effect due
> to bullet construction (opening and holding together)&#8221;. 4. Sufficient
> deep devastating tissue destruction and skeletal disruption due to
> &#8220;bullet weight, velocity and construction&#8221;. It will be a real balance I
> will disclosed the effectiveness of this bullet by the time hunting
> season is over next year at this time. By the way I am getting now
> with adjustments to my load .559" groups of three with an OAL of
> 3.530. I will let you know how thing go this fall and up coming
> winter. yours truly Mike Price
>
>
> On May 13, 2007, at 6:43 PM, S. McDonald wrote
>
>
>>

Mike, I am quite confident that the 240gr bullet being used in your 300WBY will penetrate adequately on larger soft skinned game such as elk, moose, black bear, grizzly or lion. Thanks for your comments Mike, we are looking forward to more reports.
Regards,
Geoff
WOODLEIGH BULLETS
PO Box 15, Murrabit, VIC, 3579, Australia
Ph. 61 3 5457 2226
Fax. 61 3 5457 2339
[email protected]
www.woodleighbullets.com.au


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

Interesting, you're one step ahead...I wonder why they don't change their recommendation?


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## beartooth (Feb 14, 2007)

M1Garand said:


> Interesting, you're one step ahead...I wonder why they don't change their recommendation?


He said that some hunters or inexperienced shooters and are not good marksman when up close because of fear or lack of exprience and they do not want to be responsible for someones demise. He is aware of what I have taken up close and had no problem in recommending the bullet under certain conditions to me.


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

reports i've read praise the woodleigh's , but only in their recommended operational speeds.

i've not had the privilege of hunting big game yet - deer are as big as it gets for me. certainly not dangerous game. so my opinion is based solely on what i read from others, and can be taken for what its worth. but if i were going on a hunt like that, i'd be very leery about shooting a bullet 400 fps above its recommended velocity. 

the gentleman's comments don't address the speed issue at all, and it would make me feel like i was "field testing" for them. i think they'd change the speed recommendations if they thought it was accurate.

for a company that's been in business for nearly 40 years, i have a few reservations about them. no load data? when loading their 225 round nose in a 338 win mag, i found that they simply recommend that you start with powders and amounts recommended by other manufacturers. take the max, reduce by 10%, and work up from there.

reports i've read of them, on various web sites, claim stellar performance when at recommended speeds, but separation when driven fast.

the barnes x bullets are pricey, but they are the only bullet i've seen so far that give reliable expansion and hold together at any speed. that's the bullet i'd be using if i were you.

not trying to offend in the slightest. i admit my inexperience on big game, so this is just my humble opinion.


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

African countries have minimum caliber restrictions of 375 if not mistaken [dangerous game?]. Doesnt that include lion?
Im with RZ on this one for the reason of 400 fps faster is outside the operational zone of the bullet. If this bullet expands too rapidly because of this increase in velocity, its size will prevent deep penetration. Id opt with the Barnes just to be safe. Just my opin. Woodleighs are quality bullets, but within the parameters they are made for and I have concerns at those high velocities.


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

rzdrmh said:


> the barnes x bullets are pricey, but they are the only bullet i've seen so far that give reliable expansion and hold together at any speed. that's the bullet i'd be using if i were you.


Those and the Swift A-Frames are the only ones I've seen but the Swifts are more expensive and mer personally, I'd opt for the Barnes, esp if I'm getting the accuracy I saw BT get with the 180 grn. I highly doubt the Swifts would shot that kind of accuracy....but maybe they'll surprise me..:lol:


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## RecurveRx (Jun 21, 2004)

Though I have yet to kill a single head of game with the Woodleigh Weldcore, I have done some pretty extensive homework on the bullet. It has been exhaustively tested on the planes of Africa and Australia. I suspect the fact that Woodleigh is one of the few (maybe the only) companies making a wide range of steel jacketed bullets for dangerous game, set them up well for the introduction of their soft nose, bonded jacket bullet in 1988  the Weldcore. Yes, a bonded bullet that has been around for 20 years next year. 

The first five 225gr Weldcores ($40/50) I fired out of my .338 Win printed under an inch. Most report stellar accuracy with this bullet. No doubt, the flat base and round nose help in that department. Velocity 15ft from the muzzle is 2780 fps. POI is identical to the 225gr Hornady Interlock ($27/100) in my rifle. The IL is my practice load, the WC my hunting load. I am trusting this load on a BC elk hunt this fall, the hunt of a lifetime. 100% confident it will hold together, expand like the dickens, and penetrate adequately. As you can see, I have great respect for the Woodleigh Weldcore.

That being said, their .308-240 would not be my first choice for DG/game in excess of 500lbs - *at 300 WBY velocities.* The true beauty of the Woodleigh (and an often promoted attribute) is their ability to expand reliably and easily  even at great ranges when most of their velocity is gone. 

From Woodleighs add print .and are specifically profiled internally for optimum jacket wall taper. This gives them the feature of reliable controlled expansion at various impact velocities. (_FWIW, I do not agree with the controlled expansion labeling. The only way to truly control expansion is with a solid/divided shank (i.e. North Fork, NP, A-Frame). _ 

You dont read a lot of reports of the Weldcore drilling through an animal like you would with a solid, TSX, North Fork, A-Frame, Fail Safe, or even Partition. What you will find is a huge wound cavity and adequate penetration, provided theyre driven at appropriate speeds. 

For the .338-225 that speed is 1900-2900fps *IMPACT *velocity. If I was going to stretch any of these numbers it would be the lower end. Tests have proven that WCs open up reliably at speeds well below this, especially when they hit bone. At speeds greater than 2900 I would be concerned about it expanding back to nothing. Penetration is going to suffer. 

For the .308-240 the *IMPACT *velocity is listed as 1900-2400 fps. Keep in mind, this bullet was developed in celebration of the .30-06 centennial. This is the reason for the more narrow range. Theyre not as tough as their larger bore brethren. They were built around the .30-06 and its normal velocities. If this bullet hits heavy bone traveling at 2700 fps (say 50 yards from your bore), I cant imagine that performance is going to be optimal. 

Your .308 bullet weighs 15gr *more* than my .338 bullet and youre driving it at nearly the exact same speed that I am (impressive in and of itself). Yet WL lists the operational speed for the two bullets at a full 500 fps slower for the .308 dia bullet  thats pretty huge. One has to ask why? 

If youre married to the .308 dia, my first choice would be the North Fork .308-200 Heavy Game (HG) bullet. The HG bullets are more heavily constructed than the standard line and will hold up under the most severe of tests. The solid copper shank would flat out LOVE your 300 wby velocities while the bonded front will still hold together.

Again, I am exceedingly impressed with the potential of the WC, so much so that I selected it for my hunt of a lifetime. In all reality, it may work just fine for you. It is a phenomenal bullet. That being said, I have yet to kill a single head of game with the WC, so my opinion carries little weight. Just sharing my thoughts with you and some of the process that I went through when selecting a bullet. YMMV. 

I wouldnt be too concerned about the lack of a reloading manual. North Fork offers the same advice start 10% below your usual load with a like bullet. Heck, Barnes has been selling the TSX for two years now and STILL offers no load data. That may have changed, they were supposed to come out with a new edition this year.


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## beartooth (Feb 14, 2007)

RecurveRx said:


> Though I have yet to kill a single head of game with the Woodleigh Weldcore, I have done some pretty extensive homework on the bullet. It has been exhaustively tested on the planes of Africa and Australia. I suspect the fact that Woodleigh is one of the few (maybe the only) companies making a wide range of steel jacketed bullets for dangerous game, set them up well for the introduction of their soft nose, bonded jacket bullet in 1988  the Weldcore. Yes, a bonded bullet that has been around for 20 years next year.
> 
> The first five 225gr Weldcores ($40/50) I fired out of my .338 Win printed under an inch. Most report stellar accuracy with this bullet. No doubt, the flat base and round nose help in that department. Velocity 15ft from the muzzle is 2780 fps. POI is identical to the 225gr Hornady Interlock ($27/100) in my rifle. The IL is my practice load, the WC my hunting load. I am trusting this load on a BC elk hunt this fall, the hunt of a lifetime. 100% confident it will hold together, expand like the dickens, and penetrate adequately. As you can see, I have great respect for the Woodleigh Weldcore.
> 
> ...


Very intersting, and thank you for the time to write your thoughts which took some time. I think your reasoning is sound and I will use the 240 in my opinion and experience on deer, elk, black bear. I have decide to use the 180gr TSX on Dangerous and very large game. Moose, buffalo, Grizzly. I enjoyed your thoughts.


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## rzdrmh (Dec 30, 2003)

RecurveRx said:


> I wouldn&#8217;t be too concerned about the lack of a reloading manual. North Fork offers the same advice &#8220;start 10% below your usual load with a like bullet.&#8221; Heck, Barnes has been selling the TSX for two years now and STILL offers no load data. That may have changed, they were supposed to come out with a new edition this year.




i'd have to disagree a little. just because barnes hasn't published tsx data in a manual, doesn't mean they don't have it when you call them. and they do publish manuals - you're right - the new edition is in stores now. that's a little different then saying "start with the load data for the competitor's version, reduced by 10%". and northfork will provide a wealth of information should you contact them. 

i'm sure that the woodleighs are great bullets. but i find the lack of data more than a little annoying. it certainly indicates _something_; exactly what is for each individual to decide.

very good post though, i'd concur.


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## M1Garand (Apr 12, 2006)

Good post & info, Recurve. Barnes, in a sense, has had data (or at least a good reference) for their TSX. They recommend using X bullet data and you can work up 1, maybe 2 grains over the X bullet max in same weights with equal pressures. I think the main difference between the two is the grooves. Other than that, I think they're pretty much the same. 

Most bullet jackets thicken as the caliber increases and in the case of the 30 cals, it's a tough caliber to design a bullet for. It has to perform from velocities of calibers such as the 300 Savage or 308 Win all the way to the 300 RUM and 300/30-378 Weatherby's. We're talking impact variations of several hundred fps. IMO, certain bullets, even though 30 cals, should not be used in the faster calibers. The 338's, except for the new 338 Federal, are mostly magnums. The only other one that I can think of off hand, isn't very popular, the 338-06 A-Square. So I think for the most part, their bullets are designed for the magnum velocities. 30 calibers don't have that luxury and bullet selection becomes much more important.


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## RecurveRx (Jun 21, 2004)

BT, I think youre making a very wise and informed decision. The TSX is proving to be a stellar performer. Im shooting the 168gr out of my 06. The only negative (and Im not so sure it is a negative) that I have found with the TSX is a growing number of bore size exit wound reports coming out of Africa. It isnt that the bullet is failing to expand; expansion is actually generated at relatively low velocities. Speculation among the PHs that have commented on the phenomenon is that the bullet is expanding appropriately. However, as the bullet encounters heavy bone after expansion it tumbles/turns and the petals are bent back in the opposite direction - the lack of lead making them easier to sheer off at this point. Though not a completely fair comparison, I have killed a dozen or so deer with the Barnes .45-250 & 300gr Expander out of my ML. Of the two bullets I have recovered, one was missing two petals. Not enough to constitute failure in my book. Please let us know of your results with the WC on deer/bear and your TSX on larger game. 

Youre exactly right M1. People dont always look at that piece of the puzzle. If I were shooting a .338 Lapua or RUM, then I wouldnt be using the Weldcore. Id look at a NF or A-Frame. You mention the .338 Fed. Thats another round that some could get in trouble with. Most of the .338 bullets out there (especially the premiums) were designed to be driven at magnum velocities. I think the WC would be a great choice for the .338 Fed. Maybe someday Ill get a chance to play around with one Bullets like the A-Frame, Fails Safe, NP, etc would worry me a little bit out of the .338 Fed at range. They just may prove to be too tough.

Im glad to hear that Barnes finally got on the stick and published their TSX data  two years after introduction of the bullet. When I started with the TSX I spoke to Ty Herrington at length about loads. To me recommending the X bullet as a reference and working up 1-2 gr over the X max is no different than recommending a bullet of similar construction and working up from 5-10% below those charges. As recently as this past winter this was still his response. They still didnt have load data specific to the TSX. I have also spoken with Mike Brady (NF) at length (top notch guy BTW), and I can assure you that his recommendation is the same  load data is not provided. I have not personally spoken to Geoff McDonald, but I suspect his response would be much the same. What this indicates to me is that the powder companies are unwilling to test these boutique bullets (and understandably so) and these small companies dont have the means or desire to provide data specific to a dozen or so different powders for each of their bullets. Thankfully the giants like Speer, Sierra, Hornady, etc. have taken care of this for us. Personally, I am comfortable following this advice, working up over a chrony, and enjoying the benefits of a "custom" bullet.


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## Huntsman27 (Sep 29, 2004)

they become wounding pieces by themselves and design. The core itself continues for deep penetration. Pretty simple design. No lead core, the copper bullet is the best selection period.


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## RecurveRx (Jun 21, 2004)

I agree. The petals do act as schrapnal, similar to a NP, but you're still retaining a great deal of the shank weight - facilitating deep penetration. 


Actually, I think the best design just might be a solid shank with a bonded front. The shank stops expansion/continues penetration and the bonded lead expands beautifully/stays intact. Of course, were kind of splitting hairs at this point. All the aforementioned bullets are proven killers. 

My first choice was the North Fork. The bullet simply didnt get along with my bore.

I then moved to the 225gr TSX and 225gr Weldcore (arguably the best of the best bonded bullets) and let my rifle decide which was the best bullet. The TSX shot about 1.5 at 100yrds, the WC was 0.8. Both more than acceptable for a big game rifle. Probably could have tinkered with the TSX and shrunk the group to MOA or better. Deciding between the two was very difficult. In the end, my rational was that the WC will provide a larger wound channel than the TSX and still penetrate adequately, most likely an exit on elk sized game. Had I been using a lesser cal or hunting heavier game, I probably would have opted for the TSX. 

Here is the link to Woodleighs press release regarding the .308-240

http://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/images/Woodleigh%20Bullets%20Catalogue%202006%20(insert).pdf


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