# Heartworm Meds?



## huntingmaniac45 (Nov 22, 2005)

How many people leave there dogs on heartworm meds year round? My last dog I would take her off it from say Nov. - March, and put her on during bug season. Whats everyones opinion aboput this? Just leave her on it year round, or is it ok to take her off during the winter months? Money is tight right now, and cant see putting her on it for the winter, unless you all think it is better for her. Thanks


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## HRCHLab (Jan 14, 2008)

I take mine off during the winter months. Use pretty much the same schedule as you...off nov-march.


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## Neapolis (Apr 22, 2000)

I have my Molly on Heartworm (Heartgard Plus) and Flea & Tick (Frontline plus) year round. However, we are in Florida winters. Before I retired and started the Florida thing, she was on them 9 months or so a year. Stopped after hunting seson and started again in the spring.


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## NATTY BUMPO (May 12, 2001)

HRCHLab said:


> I take mine off during the winter months. Use pretty much the same schedule as you...off nov-march.


Roger that. 2X

_Dirofilaria immitis_ is transmitted by certain species of mosquitos. Right now its ~ 10 F out and a blizzard warning is in effect. 

Think any mosquitos are going to be out and about :yikes: I dont think so either.

NB


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## GSP Gal (Nov 12, 2005)

If there were any, they would be the toughest, meanest, buggers out there. :yikes:


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## choc24/7 (Jan 22, 2008)

all year round on everyhthng. you never know when something may come up and you go to on a road trip huntin or to a warmer climate or something. it is alot cheaper to keep her on than have something happen.


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## snowman11 (Nov 21, 2006)

In the winter months I tend to stretch mine a little longer, every 45 or 50 days. Even if somehow a badass mosquito were to make it through the blustery weather, 45-50 days still covers them assuming proper dose. 

The only reason I would continue every month is in the case of intestinal parasite prevention.


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## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

Even if the dog is on heartworm meds year 'round, my vet mandates a spring heartworm test before prescribing any more. Since the inception of that policy, I've ceased giving my dogs their hearworm meds in November then I start back-up again in March.


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## huntingmaniac45 (Nov 22, 2005)

FindTheBird said:


> Even if the dog is on heartworm meds year 'round, my vet mandates a spring heartworm test before prescribing any more. Since the inception of that policy, I've ceased giving my dogs their hearworm meds in November then I start back-up again in March.


 Yeah mine to! Whats the point? If the dog is on the meds year round how can it get heartworm?? Think I am keeping her off it till spring. Thanks everyone for your input.


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## snowman11 (Nov 21, 2006)

Even if your dog was infected with heartworm today, it wouldn't test positive in the spring. That is the reason for the annual testing.

It only takes two months of your dog yacking up his meds after giving them for a dog to harbor allow a patent infection. This in itself is a reason for annual testing. Couple this with taking a dog off heartworm meds in the winter and it could very well be a disaster waiting to happen.


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## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

snowman11 said:


> Even if your dog was infected with heartworm today, it wouldn't test positive in the spring. That is the reason for the annual testing.
> 
> It only takes two months of your dog yacking up his meds after giving them for a dog to harbor allow a patent infection. This in itself is a reason for annual testing. Couple this with taking a dog off heartworm meds in the winter and it could very well be a disaster waiting to happen.


Yes, and some people hit the lottery and draw Michigan elk permits too--in other words, this is not exactly S. FL, and the chances are just too ridiculously small to keep them on all year. Further, my vet's office simply cannot have their cake and eat too. If they'd eliminate the test requirement, I'd go back to keeping them on during the arctic freeze-up.


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

FindTheBird said:


> Yes, and some people hit the lottery and draw Michigan elk permits too--in other words, this is not exactly S. FL, and the chances are just too ridiculously small to keep them on all year. Further, my vet's office simply cannot have their cake and eat too. If they'd eliminate the test requirement, I'd go back to keeping them on during the arctic freeze-up.


The problem is that the meds aren't a 100% guarantee the dog won't contract heart worm. Hence, you still need to test for it regularly. Mine is on the stuff year round though, but then again I also get a deal on preventative.


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## boz03 (Jun 12, 2004)

Guys, I was hoping a vet would respond to this post. I may be wrong, but I remember hearing/reading that our heartworm meds only worked during two periods in heartworm cycle. From the bite until the microfilariae grow into an adult takes several weeks. If the meds are absent during those two periods, your dog will have heartworm. Therefore, I give the meds year around to be sure if I missed the first period, I'll get them on the second. Believe the periods, when heartworm is susceptible to meds, was 6/8 weeks apart.

I had a dog get heartworms once, after treatment the dog was never the same. With the small cost of meds, why take the chance.


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## redvdog (Jul 24, 2005)

FindTheBird said:


> Yes, and some people hit the lottery and draw Michigan elk permits too--in other words, this is not exactly S. FL, and the chances are just too ridiculously small to keep them on all year. Further, my vet's office simply cannot have their cake and eat too. If they'd eliminate the test requirement, I'd go back to keeping them on during the arctic freeze-up.


 
As for the testing..last year I received a magazine that is sent out by my vets office (Healthy Pets) in it said that yearly testing is not needed. After researching I am finding that statement more and more.... so why is it our vets make us have a yearly test to get the meds??

Pretty much what the mag said also....

http://www.baytownhumanesociety.org/info_heartworm.htm

Dogs should be tested on a regular basis, yearly if any doses of preventative have been missed and once every 2-3 years even if no doses were missed and preventative is given year around. 

And while on the subject...
Why is it Heartgard is sold OTC in Canada and AU and just us in America need to go to a vet? They are paying 1/2 of what we are and if its OTC then they are not forced to test.


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## snowman11 (Nov 21, 2006)

redvdog said:


> As for the testing..last year I received a magazine that is sent out by my vets office (Healthy Pets) in it said that yearly testing is not needed. After researching I am finding that statement more and more.... so why is it our vets make us have a yearly test to get the meds??
> 
> Pretty much what the mag said also....
> 
> ...


Congratulations, you found something online that contradicted what 90% of vets as well as the American Heartworm Society feel is good medicine. 



> As lack of effectiveness has been reported for all macrocyclic lactones, annual retesting is an integral part of ensuring that prophylaxis is achieved and maintained. Where heartworm transmission has a local seasonal cycle, scheduling for retesting should take into consideration the seven-month predetection period used for primary screening.


http://www.heartwormsociety.org/article_48.html 

You can go read that for a nice compendium of what is known about heartworm prevention and treatment. It also happens to be the one that most vets trust.


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## snowman11 (Nov 21, 2006)

Please understand one thing...you don't determine good medicine. 90% of the population does. You may very well be able to read and understand that link I just posted, a majority of people dont' care enough to research it. 

The annual testing requirement exists for a couple of reasons, one is that the medicine is not 100% effective. The second, is a mirror of the first as well as profit motivation. Merial, Novartis, etc all guarantee their medications in that if you can show reciepts for the dog being on it year round, with annual testing, they will pay for treatment. You don't have to be a genious to realize the motivation for them to offer that guarantee. Another reason has to do with the etiology of heartworm development, that whole seven month predection window thing sorta throws a wrench into developing the cheapest testing requirements. 

The reality is, if you are a vet or just smart enough to read and understand that article I posted, you can save yourself around 50 bucks every other year on heartworm preventative/testing and still be perfectly covered. If you aren't, take the advice given by your vet...not some forum. Basically, if you aren't smart enough to figure it out for yourself, trust the one who went to school for four years then passed the licensing exams that can give you the advice.


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## TimSchoenborn (Dec 15, 2006)

I won't go into all the details but rather just give a little food for thought here.

About 8 years ago roughly when the year round thing was coming around I was sold on the idea and proceeded to do it based on my vets advice. I followed the program using Heartguard chewables which I still use today.

I was well within the weight parameters of my dog and never missed a pill.

Spring rolled around and off to the vet we went for the yearly test.

I had a dog with a positive test for heartworm. A second test was done along with x-rays and long behold she had them. 

After a very expensive and pain in the ass procedure she survived and lived to be 14.

Point being I had a dog get Heartworms all the while on meds year round.

Vet said it happens from time to time.

I don't do the year round thing anymore but I certainley get my dogs tested yearly. If I did not get this dog tested she would have died.

Just a little FYI is all from my experience.

Tim


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## redvdog (Jul 24, 2005)

Excuse me Snowman but what I was speaking of as I said came from a magazine produced by VETS for their clients. I used the internet quote since it also said what the article did. So if 90% of US vets disagree then I guess the other 10% must be behind the article and allow the mag to go to their clients.

BTW..I do test every year. I just wonder why things are done so different here in the US compared to other countries. Also I would love to know the HW numbers in countries that few dogs ever use HW meds.


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

Prevention is always better than trying to fix the problem after the fact. It's like washing your hands to keep from passing your germs to others or vice versa. It's not a guarantee that you won't catch a cold, but it cuts down on your odds. Cold and flu season generally doesn't occur in the summer, but I still wash my hands then. Giving a dog heart worm meds year round isn't a lot different. 

Discussions like this always kill me. People spend big bucks on pedigrees, pro training for the dogs, etc and then turn around and skimp on preventative medicine. To each his own, God knows I have no place to criticize. But I'd view expenses like that as an investment and would want to make sure the animal was healthy for a good long time. Just my opinion and I will say no more here.


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## Rudi's Dad (May 4, 2004)

redvdog said:


> As for the testing..last year I received a magazine that is sent out by my vets office (Healthy Pets) in it said that yearly testing is not needed. After researching I am finding that statement more and more.... so why is it our vets make us have a yearly test to get the meds??
> 
> Pretty much what the mag said also....
> 
> ...


There is a business side of being a Vet. IMHO, its a dog not a human being. Therefore I suggest you SHOULD be able to nix a annual test. Same for a possible reaction to anesthesia. The owner should be able to sign a waiver to forgo those tests.
FWIW, my vet also insists on those tests. Nothing ticks me off more than to be told your dog WILL have those tests, period.


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## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

From the Heartworm Society Link: http://www.heartwormsociety.org/article_48.html



> Continuous, year-round, chemoprophylaxis [preventative] may not be necessary throughout the northern half of the country in which the prospects for transmission are limited to the months of May through October, but it is important to note that successful seasonal prophylaxis depends on proper timing of heartworm preventative administration.


Assuming that this organization knows their stuff, my current program of preventative during the active months and a spring test should continue to be just what the doctor ordered.


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## tinmans (Jan 15, 2009)

You can save a lot by mixing your own heartworm med. i use liquid ivermectin, main ingredient of heart guard. and mix with propylene glycol. ratio of 60:1 then distribute orally to each dog once a month according to weight..... 1-25lb .5cc 25-50lb1.cc 50-100lb 2.cc initial investment is around $50.00 but you should be able to treat your dogs for their entire life. I take my dogs for heartworm test every 2-3 yrs just to have some pc. of mind.


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

at one time, veterinarians could mix ivermectin and prescribe it. the cost was very low. the pharmaceutical companies and veterinarian associatiion opposed that and it became a prescription with a far higher price. the reason given was that veterinarians that were mixing their own were "manufacturing" which is a pretty far stretch. but you will see that attitude throughout the pharmaceutical industry. if it can be patented the price can be maintained at a much higher level.

if you look at a heartworm map, you will see the highest concentrations around the areas of the highest human populations. more dogs around those areas of course, but on the other hand most city dogs live indoors with little exposure especially at night when mosquitos are most numerous.

to infect a dog, a mosquito has to bite an infected dog and then fly to and bite an uninfected dog. there are only a few dogs within a mile radius of my home. so one of those dogs, maybe a dozen at most, would have to be infected, be bitten by a mosquito and that mosquito would have to fly 1/4 or more and bite one of my dogs to infect it. and our mosquito population, especially around the house and barns and kennels is very low. ii'm rarely bitten, even late in the evening.

so i treat my dogs with ivermectin from early spring until nov. but i consider the risk very low.


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## snowman11 (Nov 21, 2006)

dogwhistle said:


> at one time, veterinarians could mix ivermectin and prescribe it. the cost was very low. the pharmaceutical companies and veterinarian associatiion opposed that and it became a prescription with a far higher price. the reason given was that veterinarians that were mixing their own were "manufacturing" which is a pretty far stretch. but you will see that attitude throughout the pharmaceutical industry. if it can be patented the price can be maintained at a much higher level.


It's not quite that easy.

You cannot use a drug off label without a valid reason when a licensed product exists. This wasn't exactly the AVMA creating such legislation, it has existed for quite some time, and it's the FDA, and it covers all drugs, not just veterinary medicine, the lives of veterinarians would be a lot easier if they didn't have to worry about staying "on label". If anything, the FDA is a LOT more liberal with veterinarians because they know how few resources for animal drugs there are in comparison to human pharmaceutical options. 

IIRC, cost is a valid reason for going off label, but then you are paying for a veterinarian to mix the drugs, and that can get expensive as well. They cannot mix in quanitity, each patient has to be compounded seperately.


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

the FDA regulates it, but the push was from veterinarians and especially pharmaceutial companies. it's a very common practice in all kinds of medicine, human and animal.

ivermectin is approved over the counter for all kinds of animals, livestock and horses. there is no reason why it shouldnt be for dogs, except dogs are pets. people only have to pay the costs on one or two and there is a great deal of emotional involvement.

it only costs me a few cents a dose for ivomec- ivermectin and many many times that for the prescribed forms. so there is a huge profit motive.


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

Just out of curiosity, just what kind of heart worm preventative are you guys getting? Doing just a random search on the web I can see that the price of the stuff is as low as $26.00 for a six month supply. That's really a bank buster? I spend more than that on gas or beer every month.


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## tinmans (Jan 15, 2009)

We all need a good vet, but when you own a lot of dogs the matience costs can be overwhelming. Farmers have been some of the most knowledgeable backyard vets i've known. Therefore, i see no reason to treat my own dogs. I treat for worms with (Fenbendazole) panacur, use vaccines to prevent bordetella ( kennel cough, use liq. ivermec/ propylene glycol to prevent heartworm,and frontine for flees and ticks. once a year i give them a 7-way shot. These are all bought over the counter preventative meds. The savings is a least 70%-80% over what a vet charges. When you begin to take on the care of your dog i feel you start to identify prolems more easily, for example, loss of weight. you might start checking stools for worms. additionally i rather put that money i save into buying quality food. etc... Heck, old school hockey players got their gashes sewed-up on the bench between shifts. and yes i do carry my own needle and fishing line. no whimps in my string.:lol:


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## milmo1 (Nov 9, 2005)

dogwhistle said:


> it only costs me a few cents a dose for ivomec- ivermectin and many many times that for the prescribed forms. so there is a huge profit motive.


DW-
My oldest dog's breeder used and advised me on the use of the bottled ivermectin sold over the counter at Farm and Fleet. I got too nervous when I read the label...
Have you ever had any complications? Overdosages?


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

i think most of the larger breeders use it. there are a lot of different varieties of ivomec. you have to know which type and concentration to get. i've never had any problems with an overdose. i administer it "straight" i dont cut it with anything. i just pull the proper amount into a syringe and squirt it on the back of their tongue- not down their throat.

i strongly agree with the previous poster about people with farm backgrounds treating their own animals. i've been doing it since i was 10. if you own a lot of livestock, you have to identify the sick animals and decide which you can treat and which need to call the vet for. if i had called a vet for every time i pulled a calf or lamb, i would have gone broke. and you do your own preventive medicine. you dont call a vet to worm a herd of cattle or flock of sheep.

i just treated a horse with a sprained hock. kind of a chronic thing with him. i used an off label "medicine" and he was right as rain in 24 hrs.

there are certainly times for good competent vets and i'm happy to use them and dont whine about the cost. on the other hand there are a number of incompetent ones, i can think of three that i know of firsthand. and they seem to more likely be tolerated by pet owners than livestock people.

anyway, my main point was that ivermectin is available over the counter for everything but dogs and cats. no reason it shouldnt be for them too.


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

Just a word of caution. Some breeds are overly sensitive to ivermectin, particularly herding breeds. Typically heart worm meds have such a low dose of it that it won't affect them. But it is something to keep in mind if you're going the other route. For more info, here is a link.

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-vcpl/


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## BradU20 (Jan 17, 2005)

milmo1 said:


> DW-
> My oldest dog's breeder used and advised me on the use of the bottled ivermectin sold over the counter at Farm and Fleet. I got too nervous when I read the label...
> Have you ever had any complications? Overdosages?


The lethal dose for a dog of setter size is ridiculously high, almost to the point where you couldn't screw up if you tried. 


> Dogs
> Collies: 0.1 - 0.2 mg/kg (15 - 30 times the therapeutic dose)
> Beagles: 2.5 - 40 mg/kg (greater than 200 times the therapeutic dose)


I've done it, breeder did it, grandpa's done it forever, his dog friends have...no issues.

With the cost savings I keep them on it year-round. Risk is very low, but mosquitos can live indoors through early winter.


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## Mickey Finn (Jan 21, 2005)

I give heartguard year around. Along with the yearly test. It's the safest route. Thats all I'm worried about.

If money's tight. This is one area where you could save a little. Without worrying too much about it.


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

i believe some of the prescribed heartworm medications dont contain ivermetin?

the amount given of ivermectin is pretty small. .05ml of a 1% solution for my 37-47 lb setters. i think that works out to be about 2.5 cents a dose. so the pharmaceutical companies could make that into a tablet and market it for $1 a dose and make a profit sold over the counter.

i have the best heartworm preventive there is. within a square mile of my home, there are nine other dogs. one of them belongs to a retired vet. the chances of one of those dogs contracting heartworm, then a mosquito biting that dog and flyiing almost a half mile to bite one of my dogs is about the same as me finding the winning superlotto ticket.

not to mention that mosquitos are virtually non existent around my home and outbuildings( lot of swallows?) and not too many even back in the pastures when i run dogs in the evening. i told my former vet that, she looked at me like i was speaking swahili. i doubt if she got out much. 

i strongly suspect that the rate of heartworm is much higher among dogs in the city and suburbs. concentrated animals (or humans) always have a much higher rate of disease. that's why cattle in feedlots are shot full of antibiotics.


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## drwink (Oct 15, 2003)

BradU20 said:


> The lethal dose for a dog of setter size is ridiculously high, almost to the point where you couldn't screw up if you tried.
> 
> 
> I've done it, breeder did it, grandpa's done it forever, his dog friends have...no issues.
> ...


We started using it last year ourselves. When you have 11 dogs you start looking at things differently. No problems here either and we just keep them on it year round. We have a dog that the vet prescribed Ivemectrin at 10 times that heatworm dose for something else so I see little risk.
We do everything other than rabies vacinations.
Fortunately we have a vet that advises on these things we can do. Also tells us other "herbal" like remedys. We also have a dog we give cranberry & vitamin D too. 
Our dogs are healthy, and we have cut our vet costs tremendously.

Wally


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

what you refer to as herbal is probably holistic medicine. it can be quackery but it also can be very effective. pharmaceutical companies dont like it because they cant patent it.

an example in human medicine are ones for thyroid. synthroid is the patented medicine but it doesnt work very well or not at all, especially for women. armour thyroid is made from pig's thyroid and is many times more effective.

when you guys start treating your own animals, you are doing what every farmer and rancher in the country does. and you'd be surprised how effective some of the home remedies are. lime on a horses cut leg will prevent the formation of proud flesh. and every horseman i know swears by DMSO.


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## snowman11 (Nov 21, 2006)

Ivermectin is used in horses to treat roundworms and mostly intestinal parasites. If you give ivermectin to a dog that has a patent heartworm infection, you could very likely end up having a dead dog on your hands, that is, without appropriate medical intervention. 

There is obviously a huge markup in heartworm meds, a 70 dollar pack of heartgard has less than $.25 worth of active ingredient in it. This surprises you why?

When you watch their poo, you are watching for tapeworms, it's unlikely that you are gonna see them crap out a roundworm or a hookworm, you have to do microscopic fecal analysis and check for eggs. Do you have a centrifuge and microscope at home? (i do, I save a considerable amount by doing my own fecals) 

There's all kinds of stuff you can do at home. You can give your dog tylenol, aspirin, kaopectate, all kinds of drugs....but do your homework, you can kill them by trying to save a few bucks. 

When it comes to vaccines, I'd strongly recommend paying the vet to do at least the first round to make sure your dog doesn't have reactions, if you have an anaphylactic reaction, which are not unheard of (though quite rare)...your dog has minutes before it's dead without appropriate intervention. Other reactions, though still dangerous, need injectable steroids and benadryl. Unless you have horses, I highly doubt you have the meds on hand, I'd also doubt the average persons ability to hit a vein to give it IV.

I'm not saying you can't do a lot of things at home and save a heckuva lot of money, but I also can't recommend it unless you do a lot of research. It only takes one mistake, and regardless of what you find online regarding LD50 dosages, it doesn't mean that your dog won't be that special one.


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

i've talked to the owners of quite a number of owners of high quality trial kennels and they all heartworm their own dogs with ivermectin. i didnt ask them if they have a centrifuge. but i doubt it.

the possibilty of one of my dogs having heartworm already when i worm him is so remote that it doesnt deserve any consideration whatsoever. however the fear factor is commonly used in marketing medicine today.

my dogs dont have parasites because i worm them reguarly with a highly effective wormer. i did have a dog a while back that was bleeding rectally so i took him in. 0 parasites so the vet offered me a antibiotic. that made no sense. i took him home and took him (and all of them) off a corn based diet. it took care of the problem and it never reoccurred.

but $75 for 2 cents worth of medicine says it all. that's what this deal is about. you have to pay off that 100,000 dollar student loan you mentioned several times in another thread. and the sooner the better.


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

dogwhistle said:


> but $75 for 2 cents worth of medicine says it all. that's what this deal is about. you have to pay off that 100,000 dollar student loan you mentioned several times in another thread. and the sooner the better.


Ah you had to make it personal now. Actually I mentioned it and it was only once if I recall. By the way it's more like 150-200k if you don't have a rich mommy and daddy. But that's what this is really about, if you have a fatty pension or salary maybe you can afford to roll the dice like that. For the rest of us $700-$2000 for a pedigree, not to mention all other expenses put into a dog, well let's just say that we aren't rich enough to shrug off a loss of an investment like that if things go bad while playing dog doctor. 

Farmers on the other hand really are another matter. You really would go bankrupt if you had to rely on a vet for everything all of the time and I won't argue that.


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## snowman11 (Nov 21, 2006)

dogwhistle said:


> my dogs dont have parasites because i worm them reguarly with a highly effective wormer. i did have a dog a while back that was bleeding rectally so i took him in. 0 parasites so the vet offered me a antibiotic. that made no sense. i took him home and took him (and all of them) off a corn based diet. it took care of the problem and it never reoccurred.


Antibiotics are a very valuable tool in the treatment of hemorrhagic diarrhea. Penicillin, Metronidazole and Amforol all work wonders in clearing up clostridium, ecoli and salmonella infections in the digestive tract, and after you rule out intestinal parasites, it's the next logical step in the treatment of hemorrhagic gastroeninits.


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

that would be the expensive route, and the illogical one. i just changed the dogs diet and took care of the problem permanantly. i dont know why she didnt think of that instead of trying to shove more pills down that dogs throat. the idea is, treat the animal, not keep throwing medicine at it unti something works or it dies.

i dont want to this to become a "beat up on vets" thread. i've known a lot of them, good, bad and indifferent. and they are a couple that subscribe to this thread and i have no reason to believe they are anything but excellent practicioners.

and for west coast hunter, arent you the one with that pup from a pointer breeder? i think you will find he treats all his dogs just like i have described as do all the guys like that. if you dont want to, thats up to you. but it's not all that big a deal, it's like changing the oil in your car. only a lot easier. as far as farmer, you will find that broodstock , beef or dairy cows, let alone bulls are worth a lot more than a birddog. i shoe my own horses too, i save a little money and it's a bit more convenient but mostly i do it because where i live people just do things for themselves and like to. oh, and they are getting on now, but just one of those horses was worth a lot more than a birddog too, even a $2000 one.<G>


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## FindTheBird (Dec 18, 2004)

dogwhistle said:


> i've talked to the owners of quite a number of owners of high quality trial kennels and they all heartworm their own dogs with ivermectin.


I've had the same experience and I think it's a pretty safe bet to assume that nearly all of the high end kennels do the same with some very valuable dogs. With my growing "kennel" I'm considering it myself--although I'd probably still test periodically.


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

mike, i like facts. i spent some time this morning doing a little computer research, and the results were surprising even to me. i'm not going to publish them, as my old math teacher said "i'm not going to spoon-feed you people" <G>

i will say this much.
pharmaceutical companies are a business.
businesses advertise to promote their product.
fear is a frequently used method of advertising (listen to the On-star ads)

a reasonable approach to operating a car is with air bags and the seat belts properlly fastened. an unreasonable approach is a helmet and a fireproof suit.


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## wannabapro (Feb 26, 2003)

I give meds year round. It costs me $7.50 a month. If you are so tight with funds that you cannot afford $10 a month you should give the dog to someone who can properly take care of it, quit smoking, quit drinking, quit going out to dinner (you should see my point).

If you just don't feel it's necessary I don't know how to argue with that, but just remember that the dog is dependent on you to take care of it so you owe it to the dog to give it every possible advantage to staying as healthy as possible.

I just hope that there is a little overlap in dosage protection 'cause my dog weighs 48 lbs and I cannot get her to gain another ounce and the vet gives me the 25-50# dosage. I wish she was more solid in a particular dosage range.


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## TimSchoenborn (Dec 15, 2006)

wannabapro said:


> I give meds year round. It costs me $7.50 a month. If you are so tight with funds that you cannot afford $10 a month you should give the dog to someone who can properly take care of it, quit smoking, quit drinking, quit going out to dinner (you should see my point).
> 
> If you just don't feel it's necessary I don't know how to argue with that, but just remember that the dog is dependent on you to take care of it so you owe it to the dog to give it every possible advantage to staying as healthy as possible.
> 
> I just hope that there is a little overlap in dosage protection 'cause my dog weighs 48 lbs and I cannot get her to gain another ounce and the vet gives me the 25-50# dosage. I wish she was more solid in a particular dosage range.


Excellent Response


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

TimSchoenborn said:


> Excellent Response


Indeed, I can't even buy a six pack of Bell's for $7.50.


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## BradU20 (Jan 17, 2005)

wannabapro said:


> If you are so tight with funds that you cannot afford $10 a month you should give the dog to someone who can properly take care of it, quit smoking, quit drinking, quit going out to dinner (you should see my point).


You make the assumption that by not spending the money on Hartguard etc. we are not properly taking care of our dogs? That's great that you buy heartworm prevention for your one dog at the vet. It works for you. I save some money by doing it myself and use that money to buy them the best feed that I think they need. Its really not even about the money... 

The only precautions I've ever got from a vet is in regards to dosing. Never on the effectiveness of the drug. Ivermectin kills heartworm larvae. Period. Every vet I have been to knows my heartworm prevention plan and is onboard. 

If you are not comfortable in measuring out the correct dose for your dog then buy the stuff from your vet.


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## wannabapro (Feb 26, 2003)

No Brad I didn't mean to argue against you saving some $ by giving your own meds. That's fine with me. My argument would be aimed at someone who is trying to save $50 and not give any meds for half of the year based on saving a buck. I'm sure your program is fine.


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

This is getting to be like a discussion between people who shop at Sam's Club and those who shop at Costco. Both have their merits, but people who prefer one over the other will probably never see eye to eye with the other side so we should probably end this thread.

As long as the dogs are properly getting what they need, prescription or not, that's all that really matters.


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## BradU20 (Jan 17, 2005)

wannabapro said:


> No Brad I didn't mean to argue against you saving some $ by giving your own meds. That's fine with me. My argument would be aimed at someone who is trying to save $50 and not give any meds for half of the year based on saving a buck. I'm sure your program is fine.





WestCoastHunter said:


> This is getting to be like a discussion between people who shop at Sam's Club and those who shop at Costco. Both have their merits, but people who prefer one over the other will probably never see eye to eye with the other side so we should probably end this thread.
> 
> As long as the dogs are properly getting what they need, prescription or not, that's all that really matters.


Right! 

No need to end the thread. I didn't want people "looking down on me" for the way I medicate my dog....and it appears that no one was. 

Different way to do things, same outcome. Healthy, happy dogs.


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

i change the oil in my wifes car and my truck. i use Mobil 1 and a qualiity filter. i change it every 5000 miles. would i be "taking better care of my vehicles" if i changed it every 2500 miles and had a dealership do it?

whether this thread ends or not, i think dog owners would be well advised spending a little time researching- how many dogs per year are diagnosed with heartworm, how many dogs are there in the US. divide the latter number into the former number.


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## TimSchoenborn (Dec 15, 2006)

dogwhistle said:


> how many dogs are there in the US. divide the latter number into the former number.


And the number you come up with would be wrong.

There are parts of states where you don't even really need to medicate any type of prevention due to the fact it is not a threat.


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## WestCoastHunter (Apr 3, 2008)

dogwhistle said:


> i change the oil in my wifes car and my truck. i use Mobil 1 and a qualiity filter. i change it every 5000 miles. would i be "taking better care of my vehicles" if i changed it every 2500 miles and had a dealership do it?
> 
> whether this thread ends or not, i think dog owners would be well advised spending a little time researching- how many dogs per year are diagnosed with heartworm, how many dogs are there in the US. divide the latter number into the former number.


I think if you use synthetic oil you can stretch out the time between oil changes.

Before running your calculations, you'll need to exclude dogs in areas like eastern Washington since they generally don't use heart worm or flea preventative there (the climate keeps mosquitoes and fleas from being a problem).


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## dogwhistle (Oct 31, 2004)

Tim, you would have to read back through the posts ( i dont partiuarly advise that) to see that i have already addressed that.

the number you would get would be an average for the nation. it wouldnt be the mean or the mode, or factor the dogs that arent treated vs those that are or dogs in rural areas vs cities or suburbs and so forth.

but it would be a working number that would give you a picture of the nation as a whole. i recommend doing it.


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## TimSchoenborn (Dec 15, 2006)

dogwhistle said:


> Tim, you would have to read back through the posts ( i dont partiuarly advise that) to see that i have already addressed that.
> 
> the number you would get would be an average for the nation. it wouldnt be the mean or the mode, or factor the dogs that arent treated vs those that are or dogs in rural areas vs cities or suburbs and so forth.
> 
> but it would be a working number that would give you a picture of the nation as a whole. i recommend doing it.



I am not really interested in any other areas other than the one that I live in or the ones I might be going to in order to hunt.

I have read this entire post also along with posting early on that I personally owned a dog that contracted heartworm all the while being medicated professionally (Vet) Heartgard

Which was my original intent of my post to begin with. Even with medication a positive can happen. This was here in Michigan also as the dog never left the state.

Anyone is free to do whatever they want with their own dogs. My advice would be just be careful is all. Testing yearly is the key in my mind and the only reason that dog lived to 14.

Tim


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## huntingmaniac45 (Nov 22, 2005)

Wow, when I started this thread, I never thought it would turn into what it did, but it is some very interesting reading, with a lot of good info! Thanks everyone for there responses, and opinions.


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