# 5 Rifle Cartridges That Need to Make a Comeback



## Pinefarm2015 (Nov 29, 2015)

This is a good read-
After buying, selling and trading a ton of rifles, I have two .250 Savages (M700 and Savage M16), a 6.5x55 (M700) and a 7x57 (customized M77). My good buddy also has a .358 Win in a Browning lever. I couldn't agree more with the authors assessment. I have .257 Roberts and .25-06 too, but the three formerly mentioned cartridges I have are a joy to shoot and kill deer just as dead as those killed with 30-06 or 7mm mag, without all the recoil and meat damage.

*5 Rifle Cartridges That Need to Make a Comeback*
http://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2016/3/9/5-rifle-cartridges-that-need-to-make-a-comeback/

When you’re shopping for a rifle, the list of possible cartridges can be outright confusing. Short Magnums, Long Magnums, Ultra Magnums, stubby cases with long bullets, long cases even longer bullets; the list goes on and on. Some cartridges take root in the hunting world quickly, others fade just as fast. Some cartridges that were once the darling of the hunting world have faded into obscurity. While I realize and appreciate the efficiency of some of the newer offerings, I’ve always had a strong connection with the past when it comes to hunting cartridges. Here are a handful of cartridges that have fallen out of favor with the general hunting public, but are, in my opinion, still worthy of time in the fields and woods.

*.300 Holland and Holland Magnum*
The competition among the .30 caliber cartridges has always been heated, and why wouldn’t it be? I mean, how do you stand out among the kings of hunting like the .30/30 WCF and the .30-’06 Springfield, not to mention the .308 Win. and .300 Win. Mag.? Holland’s Super .30, as the cartridge is also known, is a classic in itself. Yes, I know the drawbacks: longer action, belted case that can cut down case life, but if you’ve spent any amount of time behind the trigger of the .300 H&H, I’d wager that you enjoyed the experience. The long, sloping shoulder makes the case feed like a dream, and the Super .30s I’ve have been very accurate. Pushing .30 caliber bullets about 150 fps faster than the aught-six, without a huge increase in recoil, the .300 Holland deserves to see the light of day in more rifles.

*.358 Winchester*
If you hunt the woods, where shots seldom approach 200 yards, a slower cartridge is no handicap to you. If you hunt the woods where larger creatures live, such as elk, moose or bears, a larger caliber than normal may be warranted. Col. Townsend Whelen saw the wisdom of this thinking when he necked up the ’06 case to hold .358” bullets, creating the .35 Whelen. Winchester, who saw the genius behind the .308 case, didn’t waste time necking it up to .358”, giving us the .358 Winchester. Is it a long-range sniper cartridge? No. Is it a speed-demon? Certainly not. But, it is a great woods gun, giving plenty of frontal diameter and more than enough horsepower for hunting the species I mentioned above. House it in a petite bolt gun with a 22” barrel, or an easy-to-carry lever gun, and you’ve got a companion for many autumns to come.

*.250/3000 Savage*
At one point in time, pushing a bullet to a velocity of 3,000 fps was unheard of. Today, we take that for granted. The .250/3000 Savage launched an 87-grain, .257” diameter bullet at that velocity, and was a deer-hunter’s best friend for a time. Now an 87-grain pill is certainly no heavyweight, but when properly placed on deer and antelope, it was a very effective tool. It shot, and still shoots, plenty flat enough for distant targets out to sane distances, and the short case can be housed in a nice lightweight rifle without any recoil problems. I know the .25-’06 Remington still has a huge following, but I think there’s plenty of room in the deer woods for the .250/3000.

*6.5x55 Swedish Mauser*
This cartridge falls into that category of “kills much better than its paper ballistics indicate,” as do many of the 6.5mm cases. The Swede has proven itself on moose and bears in Scandinavia for over a century, and was worthy of being chambered in the prestigious Winchester Model 70. The popularity of the 6.5-284 Norma (which I simply adore) hasn’t done the Swede any favors of late, but the old cartridge shouldn’t be overlooked. It’ll push the heavy-for-caliber 156 and 160-grain bullets over 2,500 fps, and with a 120 or 130-grain boat tail, it makes a good long-range hunting round. Recoil is totally manageable, and it’s a very accurate cartridge. If you’ve got a classic rifle on your wish list, don’t discount an old Winchester 70 Featherweight in 6.5x55.










*7x57 Mauser*
We all owe a debt of gratitude to the 7x57, as it was among the earliest cartridges that gave modern sporting ballistics, and was the basis for many cartridges to follow. Many legendary hunters, including Walter Dalrymple Maitland Bell and Jim Corbett, made their reputations carrying the 7x57, or .275 Rigby as it was known in Great Britain. The 7x57 made its reputation with the 173 and 175-grain bullets at 2,300 to 2,400 fps, depending on manufacturer, and that combination still makes a great choice for larger game. For deer and deer-sized game, the 139-grain bullets will reach 2,700 fps, with a decent trajectory that most of us would feel comfortable shooting as far as is ethical. In this modern era of huge cases and off-the-chart velocities, I wouldn’t hesitate to use a 7x57 Mauser for most of my hunting. Simply put, it works.


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## cleew (Apr 12, 2011)

While not a qualified critic because I tend to have a "need for speed," modern cartridges, even some not so modern, tend to be more efficient not only due to more case capacity but, also, due to higher pressures generated. While the majority of the current belted magnums began with the H&H, most of them do the same job, perhaps even a bit better or at longer distances than the H&H. Of course, if you didn't like the belt, the RUM certainly has a lot to offer. What could the 250 Savage do that the 257 Roberts couldn't? As far as the 358 Win, there are a multitude of new cartridges that easily displace it. The current craze for the 450 Bushmaster would be a good example. Being a big fan of the 6.5's, I do appreciate the 6.5 x 55 but would not purchase one. Perhaps the 6.5 x 68 or even the current slew of very long distance 6.5's available starting with, in all likelihood, the 6.5 x 47 Lapua and stretching all the way to the 6.5 Messner Magnum (a guy in France necked down the 9.3 x 64 Brenneke to come up with that). Included in the list of 6.5's would be the Grendel, Creedmoor and the 6.5 x 284. Most of the older cartridges are limited to less than 60,000 psi, some quite a bit less while the more modern rounds start at about 62,000 psi and go up from there. While it is nice, on occasion, to reminisce and pay tribute to those things from the past, it is not always as rewarding to totally embrace them.


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## Pinefarm2015 (Nov 29, 2015)

cleew said:


> While not a qualified critic because I tend to have a "need for speed," modern cartridges, even some not so modern, tend to be more efficient not only due to more case capacity but, also, due to higher pressures generated. While the majority of the current belted magnums began with the H&H, most of them do the same job, perhaps even a bit better or at longer distances than the H&H. Of course, if you didn't like the belt, the RUM certainly has a lot to offer. What could the 250 Savage do that the 257 Roberts couldn't? As far as the 358 Win, there are a multitude of new cartridges that easily displace it. The current craze for the 450 Bushmaster would be a good example. Being a big fan of the 6.5's, I do appreciate the 6.5 x 55 but would not purchase one. Perhaps the 6.5 x 68 or even the current slew of very long distance 6.5's available starting with, in all likelihood, the 6.5 x 47 Lapua and stretching all the way to the 6.5 Messner Magnum (a guy in France necked down the 9.3 x 64 Brenneke to come up with that). Included in the list of 6.5's would be the Grendel, Creedmoor and the 6.5 x 284. Most of the older cartridges are limited to less than 60,000 psi, some quite a bit less while the more modern rounds start at about 62,000 psi and go up from there. While it is nice, on occasion, to reminisce and pay tribute to those things from the past, it is not always as rewarding to totally embrace them.


When I was younger, I felt the need the speed in rifles. I grew out of that and my shoulder surgery reminds me of why I now stay away from the "hotter cartridges". I think far too many deer hunters are obsessed with "speed". As one who was in the sporting good industry and a fair amount of years and also worked in the archery dept. at Cabela's, I think too many archers are obsessed too much with speed also. Most bow hunters are shooting too much weight from bows that are too "aggressive". In my opinion.

A .250 gives similar performance on deer as a .243 or .257 Roberts with up to 30% less recoil. Probably 90% of rifle shots on Eastern Whitetails are under 200 yards. The recoil, blast and cost of ammo for say a .264 Mag isn't justified when a 6.5x55 has 50% less recoil, cheap plentiful ammo and is offered in affordable European rifles like CZ and Tikka.

As far as the .450, I've never seen it chambered in a rifle I'd ever own.


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## The Whale (Jan 12, 2001)

Lightweight critters get 1 moa @ 200 meters with my 22-250, deer\bear size get 1 moa @ 100 meters with either .308 ?, need more horsepower say for Grizz or Moose ?, my 338 win mag will cover it with 1.5 moa @ 100 meters. Just the basics and pretty much available calibers for me. No reloads, off the shelf.


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## FowlWeather (Mar 27, 2005)

Good list. I have no interest in the H&H, but the I like the others and think they are still relevant. I had a tang safety M77 in 7x57 many years ago. I sold it in favor of keeping a beater M70 in 7mm-08. I really wish I still had the Ruger.


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## tgafish (Jan 19, 2001)

358 Win is probably one of the most underated cartridges out there.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

Been a fan of the 7x57 (aka .275 Rigby) ever since I was a kid oh so long ago. 
6.5x 55 is the cartridge I was introduced to long range shooting with. Still a great choice.


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## TVCJohn (Nov 30, 2005)

A couple of thoughts just for the sake of the topic.

1. If I was a prolific shooter, I would take cartridge availability, current and future, into consideration.

2. Are flat shooting cartridges over-hyped?


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## 9mm Hi-Power (Jan 16, 2010)

TVCJohn said:


> A couple of thoughts just for the sake of the topic.
> 
> 2. Are flat shooting cartridges over-hyped?


I guess it depends if you're a flat *SHOOTER *or a big game* HUNTER. *Think about it.



9mm Hi-Power


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## Pinefarm2015 (Nov 29, 2015)

TVCJohn said:


> A couple of thoughts just for the sake of the topic.
> 
> 1. If I was a prolific shooter, I would take cartridge availability, current and future, into consideration.
> 
> 2. Are flat shooting cartridges over-hyped?


Most of those have ample brass options. The 6.5x55 has tons of cheap factory options options and is never going out as it's the 30-06 of Europe and is among the most popular target calibers in the world. Prvi Partizan ammo is cheap and plentiful, like $17 a box and Cabela's has the house brand of Herters making it, and when it goes on sale it's like $12 a box. I bought a case of Herters 6.5x55 when it went on sale. Great chipmunk fodder for around the cabin. 

The 7x57 has lots of ammo and brass too, for the same reason as being so big in Europe. Prvi P has factory ammo for like $16-17 a box too and S&B has tons for around $19.

For the .257 Roberts, there's more than enough high end factory ammo options and Nosler always has brass (expensive) and Norma is coming out with .257 Roberts brass this year. Winchester and Remington brass is iffy.

For the .250 Savage, big name factory ammo is far less reliable. Only Remington makes it and on a season run every year. However, Jamison recently introduced great .250 ammo and brass and will continue doing so because of high demand. I think Remington is too slammed keeping up with other calibers to deal with the less popular rounds.
Ammo...
http://www.captechintl.com/proddetail.php?prod=250SAV100PRL

Brass...
http://www.captechintl.com/proddetail.php?prod=BCS250SAV100

The .358 is a little better than the .250 Savage, with some half dozen factory ammo options.

On the flip side of the link I posted, Craig Boddington had an article about calibers we don't need anymore. That said, he has the same soft spot for the .250 Savage's that I have and love. I also love the .257 Roberts when loaded in +P. Sadly, the .257 suffered lots of marketing screw ups. First it was made in short actions and 100gr bullets, but you couldn't shoot 117gr or 120gr ammo well, which is good for up to bear and elk sized game in the heavier weights. Then Remington had the even worse idea of putting the .257 Roberts into a pump action, so even Remington factory ammo was very downloaded ammo with a round nose.

Where the .257 Roberts really shines is in a long action, modern bolt action, loaded to +P pressures and bullets like the 110gr Accubond, 115gr Partition or 117gr Hornady Interlock. If you shoot 100grs out of a modern bolt, the Norma PH Hunter +P ammo is also fabulous. It's a DRT round as good as any of the popular .30 cals that most deer hunters use. And I have two .25-06's too and love them. A M700 and a new to me M70 Super Grade. But in the field, a +P .257 Roberts is as fine a killer on 300 yards and under deer as a .270, 7mm-08, .308 or 30-06. The reality is, most northern deer hunters rarely shoot over 150-200 yards. When DRT, the deer doesn't drop straight down dead any faster just because the recoil was worse. 

*NO QUARTER ON QUARTER-BORES*
The .25-caliber cartridges from the major manufacturers are: .25-20, .25-35, .250 Savage, .257 Roberts, and .25-06 Remington. I think it’s a no-brainer to suggest that the .25-20 WCF and .25-35 WCF should go the way of the dodo. Both were popular in their day, and survive because there are still a lot of rifles out there-which is certainly a viable reason for survival. But I think both have outlived their usefulness.

You could perhaps say the same about the .250 Savage; there are no commercial rifles so chambered today, and it’s a rare chambering even in custom rifles. *However, I can’t bring myself to show it the door. It’s an efficient, low-recoiling little cartridge that fits into the tidiest of bolt actions, and with short cartridges now being “in” it just may stage a comeback.*

On the other hand, I think we can do without the .257 Roberts. It has made several comebacks over the years, but to my mind it has an inherent problem that has nothing to do with its own merits. Thanks to our adoption of the .30-06 as our military cartridge–which was replaced by the .308 Winchester–we have two primary action lengths. The “standard” bolt action is long enough to house .30-06-length cases; the “short” action will house the .308 Winchester family of cases. Obviously there are also “full-length actions” for the .375 H&H-length cartridges, and “true magnum” actions for the .416 Rigby and larger.

The Roberts case, at 2.233 inches, is too long for a short action, but creates a lot of wasted space in a .30-06-length action. It is a wonderfully efficient and effective cartridge, but it is not as good as the .25-06. And even with the excellent “+P” factory loads currently available it is at its best when handloaded. So I think it should be returned to its original wildcat status.


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## sourdough44 (Mar 2, 2008)

I like my 284 Winchester, but I won't hold my breath waiting for the comeback. Luckily I laid up a good amount of cases and other components when they were easy to find.


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## mbatson (Oct 10, 2010)

220 swift or 257 Roberts. Two of the best cartridges for small to medium game.


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## The Whale (Jan 12, 2001)

LOVE my Sako in .220 Swift. Heavy barrel, not the sporter version. 4000fps+, oooh Baby !


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## 98885 (Jan 18, 2015)

The 284 win definitely needs to be on that list. Since it's original birth in 1963, so many more 7mm bullets have been developed that makes the 284 shine even in the short action platform. It failed due to loss of case capacity when loaded and bullet selection for that platform. It was made for the Winchester 88 & 100. Designed to be the answer to the long action 270. With the 7mm BCs it definitely surpasses the 270 performance but back in the 60s-70s, selection was limited. Today the 284 handloader can develop ammunition that rivals all factory 7mm mag ammo. It's taking the 1000 yard competition by storm and is a pleasure to shoot with recoil being very tolerable for anybody. I too believe the 284 will never be reincarnated but it would get alot of followers if it was offered in bolt guns today.


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## ESOX (Nov 20, 2000)

My buddy has a 6.5-284 Norma Mag built in the mid 60's by his Dad on a (then) modern, tight Mauser action and bedded in an older somewhat customized Swedish military 6.5x55 Mauser stock. That thing flat out shoots,crazy, crazy accurate. Neither of us possess the skills to determine how accurate it really is, but I have shot a 1.3" group at 175 yards. Don't know why that round never took off commercially.


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## 98885 (Jan 18, 2015)

ESOX said:


> My buddy has a 6.5-284 Norma Mag built in the mid 60's by his Dad on a (then) modern, tight Mauser action and bedded in an older somewhat customized Swedish military 6.5x55 Mauser stock. That thing flat out shoots,crazy, crazy accurate. Neither of us possess the skills to determine how accurate it really is, but I have shot a 1.3" group at 175 yards. Don't know why that round never took off commercially.


Well today that round is loaded by many ammo makers and it's chambered by many gun makers as well. The parent cartridge (284) is only made by Cooper arms in one model and not offered in ammunition by anyone. HSM offered it in one weight but believe they quit making it.


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## Pinefarm2015 (Nov 29, 2015)

johnIV said:


> Well today that round is loaded by many ammo makers and it's chambered by many gun makers as well. The parent cartridge (284) is only made by Cooper arms in one model and not offered in ammunition by anyone. HSM offered it in one weight but believe they quit making it.


With USA hunters finally "discovering" the 6.5's, there's lots of new interest in the 6.5x.284. Savage is chambering several rifles in the cartridge. It's an incredible round, especially for long range shooting.


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## Quack Addict (Aug 10, 2006)

The 30 Aardvark will make a resurgence someday.


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## 98885 (Jan 18, 2015)

Pinefarm2015 said:


> With USA hunters finally "discovering" the 6.5's, there's lots of new interest in the 6.5x.284. Savage is chambering several rifles in the cartridge. It's an incredible round, especially for long range shooting.


I own a 6.5-284 that I built 10 years ago. I'm on my 3 Rd barrel. I shot 1000 yard competition with it and some local club matches. It is a very efficient, accurate and comfortable rifle for anyone to handle. Windy days left me a little handicapped so I built a straight 284 to run the 180 grain vlds on those less than perfect days. My targets started looking better at 1000 as my groups shrunk. I found myself taking both guns to matches. I built my son a 260 rem for his first deer gun and also to use shooting matches with me. Yes, the 6.5s do shine in long range probably better than most. I just found an advantage to the heavy bullets of the 284s to handle wind better. Very soon Hornady is releasing a 147 eld-m bullet that will have a BC of .697. Pushing that bullet at 3000 fps will take the 1000 yard competition by storm rivaling the BCs of even the 180s at 3000 fps. It will be interesting. Both my son and I shoot ground hogs down in Ohio annually where we get awfully close to 1000 yard shots regularly. Making one shot kills is common although not regular. Just shows the accuracy of those two cartridges. I'm building a short action 284 currently for my Michigan deer gun. Completing it now. Unfortunately it won't see the woods this fall.


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## Pinefarm2015 (Nov 29, 2015)

Both the .284 Winchester and .257 Roberts are fantastic rounds for deer sized game. Unfortunately, both suffered from marketing failures, not performance in the field.

The .284 was doomed by Winchester putting it in the Model 100 and Model 88. Had Winchester marketed the .284 heavily in the Model 70, and had Remington put it in a widely available Model 700, we'd be talking about the .284 Winchester as we do the 7mm-08 today.

The same is true for the .257 Roberts. As I mentioned previously, the .257 Roberts suffered terrible fits and starts. First, Ned Roberts thought it was a fine varmint round, so a slower twist was used with light bullets, causing bullets over 100grs to suffer in performance. Then it was started in a short action, thus blocking the use of longer bullets. Then they put it in a pump action and produced reduced loads with round nose bullets, hurting performance even more. It wasn't until late in the game that the .257 was put in a proper long action and loaded to it's potential.

When Remington picked up the .257 "Roberts", I believe had they named it the .257 Remington, put it in a long action bolt from the start, used a 1:9 twist and loaded it to +P pressures as is the case today for most ammo manufactures, the .257 Remington would be just as popular as the .243 Winchester.

It was poor marketing that killed off the .284 Winchester. While the .257 Roberts is still around due to being such a great round, it's not nearly as popular as it deserves to be. It has the perfect balance of light recoil and the ability to shoot 115-120gr bullets over 2700fps. Col. Townsend Whelen called the .257 Roberts one of the two best whitetail cartridges ever created. Having owned several .257's and probably using one this Nov.15, I agree.

I wisely snatched up a Winchester Model 70 RMEF special edition in .257 Roberts, with a price that was too good to pass up. While a post '64, the special edition had the claw extractor, as opposed to the normal push feed of the typical Model 70 XTR in .257 Roberts. It also has the MOA trigger system. To make it sweeter, I put a really nice, highly figured factory Super Grade III stock on it. The stock currently has a glossy finish on it, but this Winter I'm going to have it professionally refinished in an oil finish. It's going to be a real show piece rifle and I suspect it's going to be my main go to rifle after that.


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## 98885 (Jan 18, 2015)

Pinefarm2015 said:


> Both the .284 Winchester and .257 Roberts are fantastic rounds for deer sized game. Unfortunately, both suffered from marketing failures, not performance in the field.
> 
> The .284 was doomed by Winchester putting it in the Model 100 and Model 88. Had Winchester marketed the .284 heavily in the Model 70, and had Remington put it in a widely available Model 700, we'd be talking about the .284 Winchester as we do the 7mm-08 today.
> 
> ...


I'm also thinking bad timing as well for the 284. I think today Remington and Savage would do well to build at least one model in that caliber. Savage will be the first if it ever happens. They currently build F class rifles so I can see it eventually.


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## Pinefarm2015 (Nov 29, 2015)

johnIV said:


> I'm also thinking bad timing as well for the 284. I think today Remington and Savage would do well to build at least one model in that caliber. Savage will be the first if it ever happens. They currently build F class rifles so I can see it eventually.


I agree that I could see Savage making it. There'd have to be a few more factory ammo options, other than just the Winchester Super X. If Hornady made factory ammo in a 150gr ELD-X, they'd have a winning combination.


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## 98885 (Jan 18, 2015)

Pinefarm2015 said:


> I agree that I could see Savage making it. There'd have to be a few more factory ammo options, other than just the Winchester Super X. If Hornady made factory ammo in a 150gr ELD-X, they'd have a winning combination.


Once a company announces a new cartridge chambered in there companies rifle usually a manufacturer (or two) jumps aboard and does the same with ammunition. Yes, Hornady and there eld line WOULD be a great choice. Especially since the 162/175 exists already. Loading the rounds would be fairly straight forward. Expensive just due to brass cost unless Hornady necked up there current 6.5-284 brass. In a 284 win long action bolt gun, the 150-180 eld would be great. They are coming out with the 180 eld-m very soon. Believe it's in production and on there website(minus BC numbers) and almost on shelves


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## .358Fan (Feb 3, 2015)

Being a big fan of the 358 and having shot a lot of animals with it, I would agree with those that say it is under rated. Mine is a Hawkeye with a 1.5-5 vx III with a German #4 reticle. I can safely push a 225 accubond a pinch over 2500 fps. This combination makes this rifle a very practical 300 yard deer, elk and moose rifle where it still carries just shy of 1900 footpounds and is only down 10 inches. 

Is it flashy, nope. Is there a lot of factory options....nope actually hardly any, but if your a hand loader you can accurately shoot 357 magnum pistol bullets out of it. I've had great success with the 140 and 158 hornady xtp's. Load it with a 250 partition, Woodley pertected point, or even the 225 ttsx, there is no bear in North America that I wouldn't hesitate to hunt with this rifle. If one is concerned about a shortage of brass, get some 308 cases, (there are a few of those out there) and run them through your sizing die and presto, 358 win case.

If you ask me this cartridge covers the spectrum of big game rather nicely. Your not over gunned for deer, and your not under gunned for the big stuff. And as mentioned before it dose it all in a relatively compact rifle.

This one will definitely be staying in the family.


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## MIBIGHNTR (Aug 27, 2002)

I have owned several .35 Whelens and had one .35 Whelen AI built. It is a highly under rated round as well, albeit with a little more recoil. Deer go right down when hit with a 225 Ballistic Tip moving 2800-2900fps and was my go-to for hunting highly pressured public ground.


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## 98885 (Jan 18, 2015)

MIBIGHNTR said:


> I have owned several .35 Whelens and had one .35 Whelen AI built. It is a highly under rated round as well, albeit with a little more recoil. Deer go right down when hit with a 225 Ballistic Tip moving 2800-2900fps and was my go-to for hunting highly pressured public ground.


Very under rated for sure. I'd put it up against a 338 win mag as a contender. Especially when reloaded.


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## dogjaw (Nov 8, 2000)

Ordered a .243 Savage FL111, and what came was a .250/3000 (box with matching s/n was mislabeled). Sent a target to Savage with a 3/8" group, and a note that the caliber was wrong and they're not getting their rifle back. Shot a lot of deer with that rifle and 117 gr. Hornady's. It deserves a comeback.


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## 98885 (Jan 18, 2015)

dogjaw said:


> Ordered a .243 Savage FL111, and what came was a .250/3000 (box with matching s/n was mislabeled). Sent a target to Savage with a 3/8" group, and a note that the caliber was wrong and they're not getting their rifle back. Shot a lot of deer with that rifle and 117 gr. Hornady's. It deserves a comeback.


That must have been years ago. I think savage discontinued that round in the 50s sometime. Sounds like at the time, was a very good round replaced eventually by the 243. What makes a cartridge most effective(IMO) is the bullets made for it. At least 75%. Obviously case capacity accounts for range and effectiveness of the coefficient of the projectile but ultimately in the last 10 years, many new bullets and bullet design has made a tremendous difference in there performance. Today, that same 250-3000 would be a much different animal. Much like the 284 win would be if the gun companies began production again.


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## dogjaw (Nov 8, 2000)

Rifle was bought in 1997. .243 Win took over because of marketing, it was 100 fps faster with a light bullet and based on a .308 Win case. The 250 is actually better on deer sized game with up to 120 gr. bullets. I use 87 Speer TNT for varmint and Hornady 117 spbt for deer.


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## Pinefarm2015 (Nov 29, 2015)

dogjaw said:


> Rifle was bought in 1997. .243 Win took over because of marketing, it was 100 fps faster with a light bullet and based on a .308 Win case. The 250 is actually better on deer sized game with up to 120 gr. bullets. I use 87 Speer TNT for varmint and Hornady 117 spbt for deer.


I have a Savage Model 16 stainless in .250 Savage made about 4-5 years ago. It has the Accu-Trigger. I think that was about the last time they offered the .250, in production. For about $100-200 extra, the Savage custom shop will chamber whatever caliber you want, in the appropriate action.

I have a M700 Classic "Sales Rep" edition in .250 that's about the prettiest M700 you'll ever see. I also have an old tang safety M77 in .250. It's a dreaming cartridge. Very polite, very accurate and a killer at least out to 250 yards. (Never had a chance to shoot farther).

Dogjaw,
Try the Sierra 90gr HPBT. (It's a Game King 'big game' bullet, not a varmint hollow point).
RL15 powder 32.6 to 36.3
Rem 9 1/2 primer
It comes in around 3000fps, depending on the barrel and load and zaps whitetails at reasonable Michigan ranges. On lung hits, you often don't find a bullet. Otherwise it acts somewhat like a combo between a Partition and a Ballistic Tip, where you find about 50% of it on the opposing hide and the vitals are jelly.

https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/product.cfm/sn/1615/257-dia--90-gr-HPBT
25 Caliber (.257) 90 gr. HPBT The 90 grain #1615* Hollow Point Boat Tail bullet was designed originally as a varmint bullet, but it has taken on an expanded role*. This bullet is extremely accurate at all velocity levels, making it suitable for the entire range of 25 caliber cartridges. It will perform as a varmint bullet at high velocities, *but it may also be used on medium game from smaller-capacity cartridges, such as the 250-3000 Savage and 257 Roberts.*


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## Albaman (Mar 14, 2014)

My old Swedish Mauser which I've had for so long I recently re-barreled it after shooting out the original barrel has served me well over the years when harvesting deer. I also have a 6.5 Grendel which I will never part willingly with.


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## 98885 (Jan 18, 2015)

Th


dogjaw said:


> Rifle was bought in 1997. .243 Win took over because of marketing, it was 100 fps faster with a light bullet and based on a .308 Win case. The 250 is actually better on deer sized game with up to 120 gr. bullets. I use 87 Speer TNT for varmint and Hornady 117 spbt for deer.


Thats why these forums are so informative. Haven't heard of that .250-3000 in years.


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## RiverKat (May 20, 2006)

What about the 32 special? Alot of the old timers raved about this round. The 30/30 just outsold it i guess. Ive been thinking lately that i need one. Especially with the Hornaday ammo available these days.


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## 98885 (Jan 18, 2015)

RiverKat said:


> What about the 32 special? Alot of the old timers raved about this round. The 30/30 just outsold it i guess. Ive been thinking lately that i need one. Especially with the Hornaday ammo available these days.


That 165 flex tip looks good. Good velocities and energy as well. Seems close to 30/30 ballistics.


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## Stand By (Jan 23, 2015)

RiverKat said:


> What about the 32 special? Alot of the old timers raved about this round. The 30/30 just outsold it i guess. Ive been thinking lately that i need one. Especially with the Hornaday ammo available these days.


I had a model 94 flat band in 32 all that I let go in a trade. Still kicking myself. That thing was so damn accurate with iron sights. Also have a 1952 30-30. I believe they are loaded about the same to keep the pressure down in the 32 even though the 32 is slightly smaller diameter than the chamber if I remember right.aybe something about the standard load with the heavier grain bullet helped accuracy?

Also a fan of the 6.5 Swede. Have a beautiful M38. An M96 that had the bolt turned down. Either by the importer or pre import. Maple stock, damn it. Also have a 96 Sporter Kimber conversion. Cheap walnut stock and barrel and receiver have been milled. I'd like to repurpose that one. Maybe with a mannlicher stock and a spoon bolt handle. Have an unissued M94 barrel as well. Any Mauser Smith's on here?


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## Zkovach1175 (Mar 29, 2017)

35 Remington is a great round I don't see anymore


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