# who has a ccw?



## bass slayer 17 (Mar 11, 2008)

How does having a concealed handgun affect your daily lifestyle? What precautions and responsibilities do you have to make? I know that if someone sees a gun on you they would probably yell bloody murder, wich is why its important to conceal? Is it uncomfortable keeping it concealed? Im seriously considering getting a ccw permit in the next couple years (if our president doesnt ban guns). I want to be responsible and safe.


----------



## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

bass slayer 17 said:


> How does having a concealed handgun affect your daily lifestyle? What precautions and responsibilities do you have to make? I know that if someone sees a gun on you they would probably yell bloody murder, wich is why its important to conceal? Is it uncomfortable keeping it concealed? Im seriously considering getting a ccw permit in the next couple years (if our president doesnt ban guns). I want to be responsible and safe.


 Are CCWs even issued in Michigan


----------



## SNAREMAN (Dec 10, 2006)

Don't affect my lifestyle at all.A good holster and comfort is'nt an issue.As far as people seeing it,no need to worry,as i'm doing nothing wrong.If it "freaks" some out,I really don't give a ****.I have found that most "sheep" are so oblivious to their surroundings,the odds that they would notice even an uncovered gun is very slim


----------



## bad400man (Oct 3, 2005)

no ccw's in michigan just cpl's


----------



## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

bad400man said:


> no ccw's in michigan just cpl's


 
A winner on the second answer........although at times I wish that CCWs were issuable in Mich.


----------



## Isaac_62 (Nov 29, 2004)

doesnt effect my lifestyle at all. Im happy i have mine.


----------



## bass slayer 17 (Mar 11, 2008)

What type of gun is best and what is the best, most comfortable way to wear it?


----------



## DeerManager (Oct 4, 2006)

i have a nickel .357 snub nose hammerless revolver from Taurus, i like it in the small of my back with a inside the pants holster, or if i'm in a rush i can put it in my pocket and NO ONE knows, and since it's hammerless i can pull it out quickly if need be.


----------



## BigSky (Apr 10, 2008)

I think going for a CWP is a great idea especially for how long it took Michigan to get it passed in the book's. It's worth the cost of the class you have to take to get it. As stated, you never know with our president what will happen with our gun right's. Here in Montana gun law's are very liberal. You just go to the local sheriff's office and get your CWP, and carry your pistol or rifle's un-cased in your vehicle and even we are nervous about our new president's future gun law change's. I say get it while you can.


----------



## jigworm (Jan 10, 2003)

It makes the purchasing process a little quicker. With a cpl you don't need the purchase permit when buying a handgun. The course is good for anyone interested in self defense, especially in the home.


----------



## onebigdaddy29 (Nov 14, 2008)

I sometimes carry my 45acp in the open and as far as i know no one ever notices it. A good leather holster molded for your pistol in black is like camoflage. My pistol is black also and with cell phone cases and what not being black i dont think people even notice the gun. I also have a 38 ,380 , and 357 that will fit into my pocket if dressing up for something.:Welcome:


----------



## Rootsy (Nov 1, 2006)

CPL doesn't effect me at all... unless I've splurged at holiday dinners and my waist line becomes too tight... Then IWB gets a bit uncomfortable... But then I just open carry... 

If for no other reason this is also a nice part about a CPL...


----------



## BowtechGuy (Jan 5, 2007)

Did not change anything for me. Carry every day. Depends on what I am wearing to how I carry, My favorite is under the arm holster, when I can wear heavy clothes.


----------



## KalamazooKid (Jun 20, 2005)

GIDEON said:


> Are CCWs even issued in Michigan


*No one gives a crap about the debate on CCW vs CPL - really.* 

Now, back to the OP's questions .......

I have one (as does my wife). Unless I'm in the shower or somewhere not legal, it's on me and I feel real good about it. Take the class, you'll learn a ton. Maybe you'll not want a license, but most likely you will. There are a ton of different ways to carry - depends on the gun, either in a pocket or holster likely. They make holsters to attach to every part of your body!


----------



## Big_Jim (Jul 26, 2000)

KalamazooKid said:


> *No one gives a crap about the debate on CCW vs CPL - really.*
> 
> Now, back to the OP's questions .......
> 
> I have one (as does my wife). Unless I'm in the shower or somewhere not legal, it's on me and I feel real good about it. Take the class, you'll learn a ton. Maybe you'll not want a license, but most likely you will. There are a ton of different ways to carry - depends on the gun, either in a pocket or holster likely. They make holsters to attach to every part of your body!


Amen to that! The only people that I've run into that care about whether its called a CCW or CPL are the internet gun guru's that insist on correcting people at the first mention of the term. In my classes I explain the difference but the truth is, if you tell someone you have a CPL, they may or may not know what you are talking about. CCW is the term that has been used for years and whether its right or wrong, its what people understand. PS, I'm not offended by the word "weapon" either. ( Its an NRA thing)

To the OP, yes get your permit. You don't have to carry if you don't want to, but its nice to have.


----------



## Crappie John (Jan 12, 2004)

I got mine this past winter and I try to carry everyday unless on campus, Its goes along with the truck keys, cellphone, and wallet.

Bersa .380 IWB small of my back

in my truck the back of the seat is soft so It doesnt bother me, but in other peoples cars it pushes into my back

felt kinda strange when I first started, was concerned about others seeing it but now I do everything the same just a little more weight on my waist, My girlfriend doesnt even know when I carry or not she has to feel for it cause she cant even see a bulge in my shirt

Im a small framed person 5'10" 160lbs and I dont wear baggy clothes

Im glad I got my CPL its an extra peace of mind
" A gun in hand is better than a gun at home "


----------



## milmo1 (Nov 9, 2005)

Although having a CPL dos streamline the process, you may find some retailers insisting on calling the NICS check in also. This is due to the emergence of conterfeit CPL's.



Rootsy said:


> If for no other reason this is also a nice part about a CPL...


----------



## Rootsy (Nov 1, 2006)

milmo1 said:


> Although having a CPL dos streamline the process, you may find some retailers insisting on calling the NICS check in also. This is due to the emergence of conterfeit CPL's.


Yes I have run into such a situation.. Generally the big box stores.. Thus I patronize my local mom n pop dealers where I have always received service with a smile and they know my name...


----------



## Hoppe's no.10 (Sep 16, 2007)

bass slayer 17 said:


> How does having a concealed handgun affect your daily lifestyle? What precautions and responsibilities do you have to make? I know that if someone sees a gun on you they would probably yell bloody murder, wich is why its important to conceal? Is it uncomfortable keeping it concealed? Im seriously considering getting a ccw permit in the next couple years (if our president doesnt ban guns). I want to be responsible and safe.


I carry on an almost daily basis a full size handgun - Browning Hi-Power. The secret to comfortable concealed carry is the holster. Buy a holster made specifically for your handgun - not some off the rack bubble-wrapped generic holster "Fits most large size semi-autos...," "Fits most revolvers with barrels 3" or shorter..."

Posted these photos many, many times:





















I find this rig extremely comfortable when driving, hunting, running errands etc. Almost always carry concealed but not shy about "open carry" when circumstances dictate e.g when stopping for a haircut I'm not going to leave the handgun in my locked car nor am I going to sit in the barber's chair with a jacket or vest on. 

Good quote I picked up somewhere concerning seasonal carry -

Adjust your wardrobe to fit your sidearm - not your sidearm to fit your wardrobe.

Hope this helps - Hoppe's no.10


----------



## bass slayer 17 (Mar 11, 2008)

You can actually have it carried in open view in public????? I wasnt sure on that. For some reason I thought you had to have it 100% concealed.


----------



## malainse (Sep 2, 2002)

bass slayer 17 said:


> For some reason I thought you had to have it 100% concealed.


Nope... A lot of people Open Carry in public. No permit needed. 

But, with the above holster you must have a CPL license. Because the holster-gun is not 100 % visible. 

But, you have a few years before you can get CPL , must be 21.


----------



## Big_Jim (Jul 26, 2000)

malainse said:


> Nope... A lot of people Open Carry in public. No permit needed. Please understand ALL the firearms laws throughly before attempting to open carry, and be prepared with the right information in case you are questioned.
> 
> But, with the above holster you must have a CPL license. Because the holster-gun is not 100 % visible. Can you please provide the statute that covers this? I have heard different views on this and would like to see some clarification.
> 
> But, you have a few years before you can get CPL , must be 21.


Open carry is not the answer to all of the problems with the CPL law. Be very cautious when open carrying and understand all of its finer points.

Just be clear. I am not against open carry, I think its great. I just want people to be well informed so they don't get into trouble and make gun owners look bad.


----------



## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

big_jim said:


> open carry is not the answer to all of the problems with the cpl law. Be very cautious when open carrying and understand all of its finer points.
> 
> Just be clear. I am not against open carry, i think its great. I just want people to be well informed so they don't get into trouble and make gun owners look bad.


 
great advice !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## kbb3358 (Feb 24, 2005)

Did the application and finger printing yesterday. They say "three to six weeks" in Oakland County. Anybody have any experience with the OC timing?

What is a good holster for a Glock Model 23?

kbb3358


----------



## malainse (Sep 2, 2002)

Per Attorney Generals opinion #3158 dated February 14, 1945, a holster, in plain view, is not considered concealed.

Thus if the holster is not 100% in "plain view" it could be considered concealed. I say considered ,because is nothing more out there spelling this out... In the above photo 1/2 of holster is concealed. So, unless you have a CPL or the funds to fight this (felony) I would not recommend. 

I am going with your "Be very cautious" theme.


----------



## Big_Jim (Jul 26, 2000)

malainse said:


> Per Attorney Generals opinion #3158 dated February 14, 1945, a holster, in plain view, is not considered concealed.
> 
> Thus if the holster is not 100% in "plain view" it could be considered concealed. I say considered ,because is nothing more out there spelling this out... In the above photo 1/2 of holster is concealed. So, unless you have a CPL or the funds to fight this (felony) I would not recommend.
> 
> I am going with your "Be very cautious" theme.


I have read this AG opinion and agree. I believe caution is in order for anybody open carrying. I was mostly interested in more recent rulings but I guess there have not been any.

It also concerns me that some people recommend open carry as a way to circumvent some of the "no carry zones" listed inthe CPL statute without knowing the other firearms laws and penal codes. (not talking about you)

Anyway, thanks for the AG opinion.


----------



## SNAREMAN (Dec 10, 2006)

kbb3358 said:


> Did the application and finger printing yesterday. They say "three to six weeks" in Oakland County. Anybody have any experience with the OC timing?
> 
> What is a good holster for a Glock Model 23?
> 
> kbb3358


It's been about 2yrs but I got mine in 28-29 days


----------



## jigworm (Jan 10, 2003)

Consider yourself lucky. I was told 4 to 5 months in Wayne county. This came from the deputy doing the fingerprinting.



kbb3358 said:


> Did the application and finger printing yesterday. They say "three to six weeks" in Oakland County. Anybody have any experience with the OC timing?
> 
> What is a good holster for a Glock Model 23?
> 
> kbb3358


----------



## mike the pike (Mar 11, 2008)

www.miopencarry.org for the in's and out's 

I have a cpl as well, i carry here and there. I wear a big sweatshirt or a untucked shirt to hide the frame of my full size 1911. Sometimes if my dog doesnt listen , i'll pistol whip her , other than that never had to pull her out of the holster.


----------



## cshire (Sep 10, 2004)

jigworm said:


> Consider yourself lucky. I was told 4 to 5 months in Wayne county. This came from the deputy doing the fingerprinting.


 
I just got mine in the mail from Wayne County last week. I submitted application end of July, 7/27/09 if i remember correctly. Application was approved at gun board meeting of 9/10/09 per my letter, and CPL was received in the mail 10/2/09.


----------



## jigworm (Jan 10, 2003)

cshire said:


> I just got mine in the mail from Wayne County last week. I submitted application end of July, 7/27/09 if i remember correctly. Application was approved at gun board meeting of 9/10/09 per my letter, and CPL was received in the mail 10/2/09.


Good news...Thanks


----------



## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

jigworm said:


> Good news...Thanks


 Wayne county is usually less than 90 days.


----------



## BR549 (Feb 5, 2006)

GIDEON said:


> Are CCWs even issued in Michigan


 No CCW? Don't tell that to the Michigan Attorney General. 
http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164-17334_17362_22672---,00.html


----------



## TheDeerHunter (Aug 8, 2009)

I have my CPL and carry everyday. I have both an IWB holster and a belt holster. IWB can get uncomfortable and your pants need to be loose enough to hold it. I think it boils down to getting the right holster as said in a previous post. I carry IWB during the summer more and have been using my belt holster since it got colder out. I wear heavy enough clothes you cannot see it. The class is worth while even if you do not get a CPL. Just be aware of the laws and where you can and cannot carry. It has not changed my life except helping me to be more aware of my surroundings and to be more cautious. You get use to carrying pretty quickly, but it is a little wierd for the first couple of weeks. I carry a Taurus PT140 Millenium Pro whihch is a compact 40 caliiber. It took 3 months to the day to get my CPL. Good Luck!


----------



## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

KalamazooKid said:


> *No one gives a crap about the debate on CCW vs CPL - really.*
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Debate???????????????????????????I thought my statement was phrased as more of a question. Any way feel free to call it anything that you want. Right or wrong,


----------



## KalamazooKid (Jun 20, 2005)

GIDEON said:


> KalamazooKid said:
> 
> 
> > *No one gives a crap about the debate on CCW vs CPL - really.*
> ...


----------



## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

bass slayer 17 said:


> How does having a concealed handgun affect your daily lifestyle? What precautions and responsibilities do you have to make? I know that if someone sees a gun on you they would probably yell bloody murder, wich is why its important to conceal? Is it uncomfortable keeping it concealed? Im seriously considering getting a ccw permit in the next couple years (if our president doesnt ban guns). I want to be responsible and safe.


 I have carried a concealed weapon for quite a few years. The precautions are more centered to the person, highlighted by a number of underlying factors. And yes if some one saw a weapon, although they may not scream, it would surely give them reason to be apprehensive. Not all that carry a weapon are law abiding. If you were to look out your window and see several members of the Bloods, Crips, East siders, or any other gang, walking down the street with there Glocks on there sides, what would your thoughts be. 


The reason for concealment is anonymity. You don't want to be prey, but you don't want to be a target either. Personal comfort is really not a factor, because it should be determined by, once again a number of underlying factors. As long as you never by into the myth of the perfect "carry" gun, and adjust yourself accordingly, you ll be fine. A carry weapon, and carrying a pistol should never be a problem, whether socially(people seeing it), or in a comfort mode. I would strongly suggest taking the class now. Don't put it off.


----------



## fightem (Sep 21, 2008)

The gr8 thing is you don`t have to tell anyone you are carrying. A friend of mine has his permit and he keeps his in his pocket or in an inside jacket pocket. He showed me and I didn`t even notice after he showed me. His wife keeps one in her bible cover case. He told me his was made of titanium and super light I think it was a 357 snub. Very effective and compact as well.


----------



## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

Does anybody have a link for the _exact_, up to date laws of open carry.

Thanks.


----------



## KalamazooKid (Jun 20, 2005)

GIDEON said:


> I have carried a concealed weapon for quite a few years. The precautions are more centered to the person, highlighted by a number of underlying factors. And yes if some one saw a weapon, although they may not scream, it would surely give them reason to be apprehensive. Not all that carry a weapon are law abiding. If you were to look out your window and see several members of the Bloods, Crips, East siders, or any other gang, walking down the street with there Glocks on there sides, what would your thoughts be.
> 
> 
> The reason for concealment is anonymity. You don't want to be prey, but you don't want to be a target either. Personal comfort is really not a factor, because it should be determined by, once again a number of underlying factors. As long as you never by into the myth of the perfect "carry" gun, and adjust yourself accordingly, you ll be fine. A carry weapon, and carrying a pistol should never be a problem, whether socially(people seeing it), or in a comfort mode. I would strongly suggest taking the class now. Don't put it off.


Thank you, very helpful. Now wasn't that easy?


----------



## KalamazooKid (Jun 20, 2005)

Thunderhead said:


> Does anybody have a link for the _exact_, up to date laws of open carry.
> 
> Thanks.


Don't have all the regs in front of me but from what I've read about open carry, even if you're crossing your t's and dottin your i's, you're still susceptible to the spread eagle face on the hood of your car search. I think it's because a lot of LEO's are not educated on open carry. Just not worth it for me.


----------



## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

Thunderhead said:


> Does anybody have a link for the _exact_, up to date laws of open carry.
> 
> Thanks.


 Check the out door news thread. Theres a guy who frequents there, GENERALDET, he may know where to find the link your lookin for. A real outspoken supporter of open carry.


----------



## cedarlkDJ (Sep 2, 2002)

Thunderhead said:


> Does anybody have a link for the _exact_, up to date laws of open carry.


http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654---,00.html
http://www.miopencarry.org/page.php
http://mcrgo.org/mcrgo/
http://www.migunowners.org/?
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(5wxl5yefuhx2cs55c1omil55))/mileg.aspx?page=home


----------



## Thunderhead (Feb 2, 2002)

Thanks guys.


----------



## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

KalamazooKid said:


> Don't have all the regs in front of me but from what I've read about open carry, even if you're crossing your t's and dottin your i's, you're still susceptible to the spread eagle face on the hood of your car search. I think it's because a lot of LEO's are not educated on open carry. Just not worth it for me.


 I dont believe that there education on the subject much matters. More appropiatly would be there knowledge of the person carrying. They have no way, without checking, of knowing the persons intent. Are they a law abiding citizen, exercising there right, or some low life, or crazy intent on anacrhey. Better to err on the side of caution, and check everyone. Hence the beauty of a C.P.L.. Same result for the carrier, with out the hassle.


----------



## 1911guy (Oct 14, 2009)

I have had my CPL and carried for several years now and if for some reason I find myself without it it's as though I left my wallet or keys behind. It has become second nature to have it at all times. It's like your fire extinguisher at home. Most people have one but do you expect a fire any time soon? It's there for _just in case_. The time you may need your firearm for personal protection is going to be when you least expect it. If I were to leave my house and say I need to bring my gun because I think I might be in a fight for my life today I am going to stay home. Or bring my rifle (_ha ha just kidding really_) When you least expect trouble is when it usually happens. It's kinda funny that when you first get your permit and begin to carry you will find yourself feeling like everyone knows you are carrying. So you fiddle with it a lot. Well after a while that all goes away. As for open carry I am not against it, BUT I pose the question "why would you ever want to give up your tactical advantage??? That is why I only carry concealed. Some have mentioned the small of the back carry. That is ok as long as you don't slip and fall on your back. There are people who have been paralyzed do to exactly that. Carefull winter is coming.  A perfect carry gun is the one that works everytime you press the trigger.


----------



## KalamazooKid (Jun 20, 2005)

GIDEON said:


> I dont believe that there education on the subject much matters. More appropiatly would be there knowledge of the person carrying. They have no way, without checking, of knowing the persons intent. Are they a law abiding citizen, exercising there right, or some low life, or crazy intent on anacrhey. Better to err on the side of caution, and check everyone. Hence the beauty of a C.P.L.. Same result for the carrier, with out the hassle.


Good point except that a criminal is not likely to "open carry". But as you said, the CPL is for sure the only way to go IMHO.


----------



## BR549 (Feb 5, 2006)

Thunderhead said:


> Does anybody have a link for the _exact_, up to date laws of open carry.
> 
> Thanks.


Here you go.
http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164-17334_17362_22672---,00.html

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654---,00.html


----------



## streamertosser (May 20, 2008)

I have mine and I love having it, carry everywhere I legally can. Hoping eventually to have my "brass pass" to make legit for me to carry anywhere. I got it a little over 2 years ago, took wayne county over 5 months to get it to me. I usually am just carrying my taurus ultra-lite titanium in .38+p, can stick that pretty much anywhere and be comfortable with it. other times, I carry my 1911 .45 in a shoulder rig with 2 clips in the mag pouches to help balance it out, usually carry that when i'm out on the river, nobody knows i have it on me unless i let them know. Had it on a couple weeks ago on the manistee and it was warming up so i wanted to shed a couple layers, made sure i told the guy i had out with me that i was about to take off my sweater and he'd be seeing my weapon. he said "damn, didn't know you were carrying, couln't even tell, I'm carrying too!" lol thought it was funny, 6 hours into an 8 hour float without either of us knowing the other was carrying, but that's the purpose of it anonimity.


----------



## GIDEON (Mar 28, 2008)

BR549 said:


> Here you go.
> http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164-17334_17362_22672---,00.html
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654---,00.html


 
Don't those links refer to concealed weapons.


----------



## SNAREMAN (Dec 10, 2006)

1911guy said:


> I have had my CPL and carried for several years now and if for some reason I find myself without it it's as though I left my wallet or keys behind. It has become second nature to have it at all times. It's like your fire extinguisher at home. Most people have one but do you expect a fire any time soon? It's there for _just in case_. The time you may need your firearm for personal protection is going to be when you least expect it. If I were to leave my house and say I need to bring my gun because I think I might be in a fight for my life today I am going to stay home. Or bring my rifle (_ha ha just kidding really_) When you least expect trouble is when it usually happens. It's kinda funny that when you first get your permit and begin to carry you will find yourself feeling like everyone knows you are carrying. So you fiddle with it a lot. Well after a while that all goes away. As for open carry I am not against it, BUT I pose the question "why would you ever want to give up your tactical advantage??? That is why I only carry concealed. Some have mentioned the small of the back carry. That is ok as long as you don't slip and fall on your back. There are people who have been paralyzed do to exactly that. Carefull winter is coming.  A perfect carry gun is the one that works everytime you press the trigger.


----------



## Big_Jim (Jul 26, 2000)

GIDEON said:


> Don't those links refer to concealed weapons.


Thats part of the problem with open carry. There are not many laws that address the issue directly. You have to read all of the state laws, compare them, cross reference them, study the Attorney General opinions, study local and federal statutes and interpret them in agreement with the intent of the law to know if your in compliance. 

And then, if you are 100% legal and correct, you have to put up with other citizens and LEO's that do not know the laws. 

And the rules are different if you have a CPL vs. not having a CPL.



Happy reading and good luck


----------



## Bucket-Back (Feb 8, 2004)

Another reason against open carry is if some person that doesn't like you can make something up to an LEO and mess with your stuff.Even when I'm in my vehicle ,with pistol usually unholstered I keep it covered with something,in case someone passes me on the road cause I'm being a slowpoke might see it and say "He was driving erratic and when I passed him he pointed a gun at me" even though they made it up,you still will have a lot of explaining to do.I carry all the time except in CEZ's,even just walking to the garage or to get the mail.I tailor my weapon to my clothes,as it gives me a chance to rotate the pistols out.Taurus subcompact 9mm for summer,CZ hi-cap 9mm for fall/winter,.357 snub for anytime.Sometimes 2 at a time .I'm not against OC,I just think it's better the Bad Guys don't know or anyone else.I haven't my friends I carry and they don't have a clue,:coolgleamexcept that I don't drink alcohol around them anymore,because if your Blood Alcohol Level is over .02 you are not legal.If you carry,don't drink,or take narcotics ,because an LEO can ask for a blood test at any time for any reason.Take the CPL class,you will learn a lot and will have more confidence as well


----------

